# Ever have a knife that just won't sharpen?



## ncrobb

My uncle handed me a older Case knife and asked me to clean it up and sharpen it.  Its a 1976 52087 two blade stockman with stn stl blades.  I have tried every way I know to sharpen this thing and it just will not take an edge.  Tried it on a set of Arkansas stones with oil then to a leather strop and wasn't close to sharp so I ran it through a 400 grit belt, 800 grit belt and a 100 micron belt loaded with polishing compound then to the leather strop.  Still no good.  I can get most all my knives, store bought and ones I have made, shaving sharp but this one is kicking my butt.  Any words of wisdom?  Maybe I ain't holding my mouth right?

Robb


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## Nicodemus

I had a feller bring me a broadhead to sharpen one time. I fooled with thing for an hour, and never even came close to gettin` a decent edge on it. Pot metal, I reckon. Most things, I can sharpen.


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## rigderunner

get you a kitchen steal i use one on the same kind of case and it would castrate a gnat


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## 10mmhunter

I refurbished a knife for a man who said he had never been able to sharpen it.  It was a custom knife he had paid big money for.  After many attempts I couldn't sharpen it either.  Finally I decided the maker had forgot to temper the blade.  I removed the handle and ran a temper down the blade.  Replaced the handle and re-polished the blade.  It took a razor sharp edge and the customer updated me later and said it now holds the edge, and he is able to sharpen it himself.


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## tedsknives

Send it to me


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## Gadestroyer74

tedsknives said:


> Send it to me


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## godogs57

I've seen more than a few knives like this and 99% of the time (in my case anyway) it all boiled down to improper heat treating in some form or fashion. Only in a rare case can it be attributed to actual cutting edge geometry. Like 10mm said, I have seen most questionable blades that are too hard...apparently never tempered after heat treat. Too hard? Yep! I've seen Damascus steel blades that refused to slice through butter that were too hard. 

I would bet lunch that the Case blade in question is probably too soft though.... Somewhere, sometime that blade may have been sharpened on a grinder, zapping any hardness the blade might have had...it happens. Good luck and merry Christmas.


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## Anvil Head

Lot of fellas try the old cowboy movie "stick it in the fire" trick so they can dig out a splinter or melt some paracord. Seen it happen too many times to count. 
But my guess is the mfgr...Case...they haven't made a SS blade yet that holds any decent edge for long. It's in their HT process, old rep doing promotional work told me they had a fear of getting them "too hard" like the old Buck 110's and went too far the other way. He borrowed one of my neck knives to finish opening his equipment boxes.....his factory blade gave out early on the plastic banding material....he still has that neck knife (just doesn't wear it outside his shirt at work).


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## 5398cane

Buck Alpha Hunter. I ended up giving it away.....


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## John I. Shore

Typical with the factory knives.  No control on the heat treat process.  Back when Benchmade first opened up I was a dealer for them till I had a knife that wouldn't hold an edge.  Did a rockwell hardness test on the blade to find it only had a rockwell hardness of 52.  After testing every knife in my inventory the best I found was 55.  

Hard to maintain quality control on 5,000 blades a day.  

Though I must say, never had one I couldn't sharpen, only ones that "won't" hold an edge.  With our equipment, we can sharpen plexiglas or aluminum to a razor edge.

John I.


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## NCHillbilly

Aside from the obvious cheapo Chinese/junk knives that don't have good enough metal to take an edge, the only two knives I've ever seen that I just couldn't get sharp were both Case XX sodbusters. This was using the same methods and stones that I could get all other knives shaving sharp with no effort.


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## Hooty Hoot

As a rule, I can put a pretty good edge on a knife. I don't allow any of mine to ever get dull as I touch them up after use. A friend asked me to sharpen a dull Puma. I worked on that knife over a week and couldn't get an acceptable edge on it.


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## ncrobb

Thanks guys, I was thinking it was the knife and not me.  Actually got the smaller pen blade to where it will cut the larger clip is not giving in.  

Travis, I knew I could count on you for a simple solution to a complicated problem!


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## tedsknives

Robb, these guys have given you great information.   That was just a hint to bring it on down


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## Shug

The old black handled bucks was the hardest thing I've ever tried to sharpen. That was back in the days when all you had was a whetrock


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## Sterlo58

I have a Buck 110 folding hunter that I got probably 25 years ago. It is the hardest knife to sharpen I have ever owned.


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## Cuzun

I cast my vote for edge geometry. It's hard to shave with a splittin' wedge and it's hard to split wood with a razor. The edge should look like this "V" not this "U". Having been cut to the bone by thin sheets of copper ; i don't think it's temper. Now if it won't hold an edge that's probably a temper issue.


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## tim scott

years ago i had a guy bring me a henckels 10" french chefs knife and asked if i could sharpen it for him... he'd tried but said he just couldn't get it sharp..... told him i'd have it ready in the morning... well that didn't happen, i tried and tried but didn't get anywhere. removed alot of metal but it never got sharp... edge felt and looked like it was full of thousands of little nicks... finally put it under my tool makers microscope and was shocked. the edge was just crumbling away.... as the metal got thin it broke away into little cubes.... took it to a big knife dealer i knew... he took a look at it under his lens and said it was the third one he'd seen do that in his forty years in business.  he sent it back to henckels and they sent a new one.... no one was ever able to explain what the cause was.  sure was strange and you don't get any better quality than henckels.
tim


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## redman2006

Sterlo58 said:


> I have a Buck 110 folding hunter that I got probably 25 years ago. It is the hardest knife to sharpen I have ever owned.



I have a Schrade that is basically the same style and era and has the same issue.  Takes forever to sharpen and one use makes it dull.

I keep it in a drawer incase I need a hammer.


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## 10mmhunter

Well back to my original answer, if the blade is hardened and not tempered the edge is so hard it breaks when you get it down to a fine cutting shape.  The finished cutting edge of a properly made knife has a small amount of flex and bends as you sharpen it.  This is the reason a really good knife can be touched up on a leather strap. You are simply re-aligning the fine cutting edge!


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## ncrobb

Thanks guys.  I will talk to him this week and let him know I tried.  Travis, my New Years resolution is to spend time in Atlanta and Thomaston this year.  

Robb


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## Anvil Head

10m - I think you are partially correct, but I do believe they did draw the temper, just not at a high enough temp. Mfgr's do batch processing and convayance systems for thermal cycling. It's doubtful the knives did not complete the cycle...someone just didn't monitor the temps or they had thermal couple failure...happens.
In the case of the Buck 110's, that was their intended final temper that they used on their fixed blades, just was a bit too hard for the smaller hard working folders...ergo the rash of broken tip 110's (boy have I and others reshaped a lot of those!). 
On the Henkels... the most likely thing to cause edge crumbling would be overheating prior to the hardening quench. No amount of good tempering will fix this, as the grain structure is already compromised. Most of the hypereutechtiod (sp) - higher level carbon steels will not recover from overheating - just the way it is. 

Do agree it is a thermal cycling glitch and it happens, most custom makers test blades before they put them up for sale and will make good on these issues. Not always the case with big Mfgr's....some will some won't. Buck and Henkel will so far, but Case has been reported as getting "testy" in Customer Service department.


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## Redbow

I've had a couple of Barlow's that did not sharpen good..


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## tim scott

anvil head,
thanks thats what i had figured...burned steel... guess i always expected more from henckels and didn't want to accept that they could screw up like the rest of us. i was introduced to them about fifty years ago as a young kid. now have a house full. this was also about the same time i started playing around making knives off and on.... to take and hold a edge as good as a henckels was always the bar i set for myself. it's always been a hard standard to keep. it also ment alot of knives didn't get my name on them and were given away to the first kid to come along that said 'wow thats neat"...
tim


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## marknga

Sterlo58 said:


> I have a Buck 110 folding hunter that I got probably 25 years ago. It is the hardest knife to sharpen I have ever owned.



I've got a Buck 110 (probably got in 78/79) and it is impossible to sharpen.


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## Buck111

I can sharpen any of mine, but I've had a couple that just would not hold a good edge. An early AirSog and some older chinese knives come to mind. They would take a great edge but would dull if you stared at them.


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