# What is often done to the Gospel of our Lord?



## gordon 2 (Jun 7, 2011)

IN the "Different take on Adam and Eve tread" Ronnie T you state this:



Ronnie T said:


> At 1:43 minutes of the story, the story concluded.
> The rest of the story reminds me of what is so often done to the Gospel of our Lord.



..............................


"What is so often done to the Gospel of our Lord". Ronnie T can you explain this statement of yours. It is a little too criptic to my heart...as my heart is an old lumbering Desoto. It seems to me that you have alluded to this before.

Please if you care to explain it I will use it as a teaching "moment" from you. Of course some will probably jump on you, as is already demonstrated, but in all sincerity I wish to learn.

I don't know how to ask the question, but... I think that you mentioned before that people make of scripture what is "just not there" and this seems to rub you in an  "uncomfortable way".

So Ronnie T, what is your way to proceed with the inspiration and the expiration obtained from scripture? Trust me. My question is sincere. It is so sincere that you can chose to disregard it... and it will be OK.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 7, 2011)

I didn't intend it to be criptic Gordon, so I'll very briefly elaborate.

I would  venture to say that its very likely that many people have established "new" understands of Adam and Eve in the garden simply because they listened to the good Rabbi's lecture.

The problem, the Rabbi is just another pea-brain like myself, and all other Christian.
As usual, many of his thoughts and comments went far beyond what's known of the subject, situation and era.

I know that you enjoy reading and listening to discussions that consider "additional" possibilities of things that God decided NOT to provide to us.
By your standard, I'm a very boring Christian.  And I'm saying that with a smile on my face.

In Jesus' sermon on the mount Jesus spoke of how our righteousness needed to rise above the righteousness of the Pharisees.  Several times, Jesus used the phrase, "You have heard it said".   Most likely, the Jews of the first century had lost contact with the real true nature of the Law because they had begun listening to the Pharisee's as they vomited up their own "special take" on God's Law.

It's happening today all over this planet in Christ's church.
People who, as though they were a prophet from God, give us new understandings that weren't given to us.

Many times, today, new understands is nothing more than another persons attempt to turn the scriptures upsidedown and wrongsideout in order to have a doctrine that's easier on the ears.
Yep, easier on the ears.... we like that.

I might be old fashioned, but if a person wants to impress me he needs to quote scripture and make them all tie in and work together in a very logical way.  Anything else is kinda wasting my brain matter, which by the way is shrinking more and more each day.
Thanks for asking Gordy.


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## pbradley (Jun 8, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I didn't intend it to be criptic Gordon, so I'll very briefly elaborate.
> 
> I would  venture to say that its very likely that many people have established "new" understands of Adam and Eve in the garden simply because they listened to the good Rabbi's lecture.
> 
> ...




 pbradley likes this.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 8, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I didn't intend it to be criptic Gordon, so I'll very briefly elaborate.
> 
> I would  venture to say that its very likely that many people have established "new" understands of Adam and Eve in the garden simply because they listened to the good Rabbi's lecture.
> 
> ...



I like the way you smile.  And though our gray matter will shrink with age, this shrinkage by itself is now said not to affect or reduce cognition--other factors do.

"I might be old fashioned, but if a person wants to impress me he needs to quote scripture and make them all tie in and work together in a very logical way."

Point taken.

I think you are correct to a point, but I think as well it is wholesome to try to learn what the Pharisees were really about and what makes a prophet as opposed to a what makes a priest --which we can learn  to some degree outside of scripture.

I must admit that I have questions, issues even, about how to internalize and integrate my faith with the Lord and in turn make it active and lively. I find that perhaps conservative doctrines have cast a grid on the "logical way" to approach scripture.

Don't get me wrong. Logic is good and doctrines don't need to be easier on the ear. Perhaps  sound doctrines could make it easier on the heart and for this impart empathy and love for all creation. This some how seems to me part and parcel of my christian faith. 

I have not the evidence that our doctrines are making especially peaceful and loving people. Are we missing something?  For all the hopla about our personal salvation, and making Jesus our daily bread, and the Great Commission... mountains remain formidable for us. Are the sick being cured? Are the peacekeepers being rewarded and esteemed by us? Are we happy and not haggared by worry?


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## revrandyf (Jun 8, 2011)

pbradley likes this.  -- I like this too!!!


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## gordon 2 (Jun 8, 2011)

revrandyf said:


> pbradley likes this.  -- I like this too!!!



Great. Can you contribute with imput? For example why did the priest in their day take exception to John the Baptish--a prophet? In finding the answer is God's word sufficient or can we use other sources as well?

Or in finding out what the pharasees were about is scripture sufficient to our spiritual reality?

Ministers are confronted daily by the solid reality of their congragations? Prophets are confronted daily by the more fluid morality of all our lives? Is there a natural butting of  heads and hearts that will occur and if so, how can we use this as a plus to building up faith? Is Paul's ministry sufficent as a template?


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## StriperAddict (Jun 9, 2011)

Gordon,  I'll take a shot at the question below, since "Pharasee-izm" is what I could say I was about before belief in Christ...



gordon 2 said:


> Or in finding out what the pharasees were about is scripture sufficient to our spiritual reality?


 
I think the scriptures capture what they were about very clearly. On most occasions, they had a staunch adherance to the rule of law, and slammed it down the throats of those under their leadership. This oftentimes trumped mercy, which Jesus pointed out to them in *Matthew 23:23*.

Also consider:
*Matthew 15 - Jesus Corrects the Pharisees and Ministers to Gentiles*

A. Jesus denounces religious externalism.

1. (1-2) Leaders from Jerusalem question Jesus.

Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

a. *Scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus*: Up to this point, most of Jesus’ ministry had been in the region of Galilee. Galilee was north of Judea, where Jerusalem is. These *scribes and Pharisees* were an official delegation from Jerusalem, coming to investigate and assess the words and work of this man Jesus.

i. “They are genuinely bewildered; and in a very short time they are going to be genuinely outraged and shocked.” (Barclay)

b. *Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?* These ceremonial washings were commanded by *tradition*, not by Scripture. The religious leaders say as much when they refer to *the tradition of the elders* and not the commandment of God.

i. “The ‘elders’ here are not the living rulers of the people, but the past bearers of religious authority, the more remote the more venerable.” (Bruce)

c. *They do not wash their hands when they eat bread*: The matter in question had nothing to do with good hygiene. The religious officials were offended that the disciples did not observe the rigid, extensive rituals for washing before meals.  Many ancient Jews took this *tradition of the elders* very seriously.

But, Jesus answers with a question setting man’s tradition against God’s will...

He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?”

Jesus was strong in His reply because these leaders were far too concerned with these ceremonial trivialities. When they declared people unclean because of their *tradition*, they denied the people access to God.

Jesus condemns their hollow tradition as hypocrisy...​
“Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with _their _lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching _as _doctrines the commandments of men.’”

a. *Honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me*: This was true of the religious leaders Jesus confronted and quoted the passage from Isaiah to. Yet it may also be true of us. We can _appear_ to draw near to God, all the while having our *heart far from* Him. It is easy to want and be impressed by the _image_ of being near to God without really doing it with our *heart*.

i. God is interested in the internal and the real. We are far more interested in the merely external and image. One must take care that their relationship with God is not merely external and image.


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## hummerpoo (Jun 9, 2011)

Ronnie T,
You couldn't be more wrong!  There is nothing boring about God's truth.  There is nothing sweeter and it only takes one drop of man's wisdom to turn the whole thing bitter.

_I know you didn't say that, just thought it made my point)_


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