# The country is becoming less religious...



## atlashunter (Aug 24, 2012)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-07-19/no-religion-affiliation/56344976/1

People who identify their religious affiliation as "none" has grown from 6% in 1990 to 18% in 2010 and 19% in 2011. A three fold increase in 20 years is huge. Let's hope the trend continues.


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## Vmarsh (Aug 24, 2012)

And we're worse off than ever before.


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## atlashunter (Aug 24, 2012)

Vmarsh said:


> And we're worse off than ever before.



Yeah all those new godless people are just ravaging society at every turn aren't they? Just can't build the prisons fast enough to keep the atheists and agnostics under control.


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## Vmarsh (Aug 24, 2012)

Nice graph. It will show those Christians.


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## atlashunter (Aug 24, 2012)

Facts are stubborn things.


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## atlashunter (Aug 24, 2012)

Property crime in the US. Just to be clear I'm not saying a decline in religiosity is the cause of these declines. It may or may not be a contributing factor. I suspect it is a minor one if at all. But this notion that we need religion to have a civilized society is just nonsense from the pulpit.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 24, 2012)

I was surprised to read, at wikipedia, that the reduction in crime rate was almost entirely credited to the reduction of lead poisoning during that period.

Really?  Who would have thought it would have that impact?


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## fish hawk (Aug 24, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> . Let's hope the trend continues.



WOW,what do you have against religion!!!!I read the comments at the bottom of the page of the link you provided and it reads just like a carbon copy of what goes on here,in this forum....Is it religion in general you despise or is it Christians you despise or both?i saw on the news the other night where a atheist group wanted the iron cross that was pulled from the twin towers debris removed from the 9 11 museum,some said looking at it made them physically sick,like throwing up sick.


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 24, 2012)

That's disgusting to think that something like that would make a person sick..they must be lying


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## ambush80 (Aug 24, 2012)

ross the deer slayer said:


> That's disgusting to think that something like that would make a person sick..they must be lying



Like the Hindus are lying when they pray to Vishnu.


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 24, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Like the Hindus are lying when they pray to Vishnu.



I don't get it. Are you saying that should legitimately make someone sick?


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## atlashunter (Aug 24, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> WOW,what do you have against religion!!!!



There are so many answers to that question I wouldn't even know where to start so let me just summarize.

The world is worse off because of religion.


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## fish hawk (Aug 25, 2012)

The Bible clearly warns many churches will "DEPART from the faith.....So it really comes as no surprise as it clearly states in 2 Timothy 4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Also in 1 Timothy 4
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.


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## Michael F. Gray (Aug 25, 2012)

The liberals were successful at liberating the public schools from the teachings of Jesus Christ. Now they need School Resource Officers to keep the sudents from assaulting staff and each other. They bring in teachers to present "Character Education". That's akin to trying to teach the Ten Commandments without using the Bible. Don't know many folks who would not be in favor of returning to the standards, and finished product produced by our public schools before the Lord was made unwelcome.


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## atlashunter (Aug 25, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Bible clearly warns many churches will "DEPART from the faith.....So it really comes as no surprise as it clearly states in 2 Timothy 4
> For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
> Also in 1 Timothy 4
> The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.



Well I can't speak for anyone else that was once a christian but I've written a relatively detailed explanation of some of the reasons for my "deconversion". I would welcome anyone to read it and tell me where exactly I have bought into a lie.


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## atlashunter (Aug 25, 2012)

I'll also add that any religious text that warns if followers leave the faith it is because they are being deceived gets no consideration for such a statement. ANY religion can use that tactic and would be foolish not to. My response is PROVE IT. I'm more concerned with the content of the arguments at hand than baseless accusations intended to cower people into sticking with the religion no matter where reason might lead them.


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## fish hawk (Aug 25, 2012)

Michael F. Gray said:


> The liberals were successful at liberating the public schools from the teachings of Jesus Christ. Now they need School Resource Officers to keep the sudents from assaulting staff and each other. They bring in teachers to present "Character Education". That's akin to trying to teach the Ten Commandments without using the Bible. Don't know many folks who would not be in favor of returning to the standards, and finished product produced by our public schools before the Lord was made unwelcome.



Yea they need cops in schools also!!!Things are great atlashunter,lot better than they use to be!!!


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## atlashunter (Aug 25, 2012)

If godlessness resulted in higher crime then shouldn't we expect to see atheists over represented in prisons? Why do we see the exact opposite?


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## Thanatos (Aug 25, 2012)

...and Christiainty and other religions are on the rise in other places. 

I hope NPR is objective enough for you. 

Rise of Christianity in China 


TLDR:

"Some recent surveys have calculated there could be as many as 100 million Chinese Protestants. That would mean that China has more Christians than Communist Party members, which now number 75 million."


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## Four (Aug 26, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Bible clearly warns many churches will "DEPART from the faith.....So it really comes as no surprise as it clearly states in 2 Timothy 4
> For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
> Also in 1 Timothy 4
> The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.



Timothy is my favorate! All that divinly justified bigotry!



> 11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;* she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.*


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## ambush80 (Aug 26, 2012)

Four said:


> Timothy is my favorate! All that divinly justified bigotry!



"Out of context, Your Honor!"


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## TheBishop (Aug 26, 2012)

Vmarsh said:


> And we're worse off than ever before.



How so?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Facts are stubborn things.



When did USA Today start publishing facts?????
I am pretty sure, much like any "journalistic" effort in this day and age, that they are interested in sales and ratings.

I am interested. What is the source of the graph?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> If godlessness resulted in higher crime then shouldn't we expect to see atheists over represented in prisons? Why do we see the exact opposite?



I agree that the supposed correaltion of godlessness = higher crime is not true. There are a lot of crooks who claim to have God on their side.


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## atlashunter (Aug 29, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> When did USA Today start publishing facts?????
> I am pretty sure, much like any "journalistic" effort in this day and age, that they are interested in sales and ratings.
> 
> I am interested. What is the source of the graph?



Bureau of Justice Statistics


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## atlashunter (Aug 29, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> There are a lot of crooks who claim to have God on their side.



There sure are.


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## bigreddwon (Aug 30, 2012)

Four said:


> Timothy is my favorate! All that divinly justified bigotry!


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## emusmacker (Aug 30, 2012)

Please define religion.


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## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Bureau of Justice Statistics



Interesting; I have not heard of them before. I looked at the website, and I cannot make any claims against their credibility, but they seem dedicated to statistics. Statistics are not facts. They are an interpretation of the facts. Any good statistician will tell you that they can make the statistics say whatever they desire. Again, I cannot discredit their statistics.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 1, 2012)

I would like to see how Pentecostals stack up against other Protestants on a knowledge survey. They sure know there Bible, especially Acts. I guess this survey is what people know about the Bible. I don't know what else it is based on. I would add that most Atheist In America were raised Christian(what about OSAS) and in giving it up have done a lot of Bible reading wouldn't you think?
Ok just found the link. They were asking a bunch of random questions concerning a bunch of different stuff.
http://www.pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx


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## bigreddwon (Sep 2, 2012)

artfuldodger said:


> i would like to see how pentecostals stack up against other protestants on a knowledge survey. They sure know there bible, especially acts. I guess this survey is what people know about the bible. I don't know what else it is based on. I would add that most atheist in america were raised christian(what about osas) and in giving it up have done a lot of bible reading wouldn't you think?
> Ok just found the link. They were asking a bunch of random questions concerning a bunch of different stuff.
> http://www.pewforum.org/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-who-knows-what-about-religion.aspx



:d:d


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## ted_BSR (Sep 7, 2012)

bigreddwon said:


> :d:d



So Mark Twain is the reliable source that we should all base our decisions on? OK, or NOT. You might as well be quoting scripture on this forum, or the Chik Fil-a cows. That wasn't even his real name. It was Samuel Langhorne Clemens.


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## atlashunter (Oct 1, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Interesting; I have not heard of them before. I looked at the website, and I cannot make any claims against their credibility, but they seem dedicated to statistics. Statistics are not facts. They are an interpretation of the facts. Any good statistician will tell you that they can make the statistics say whatever they desire. Again, I cannot discredit their statistics.



Really? So all the recorded murders and other violent crimes used to compile those statistics were just made up out of thin air? Too bad you don't apply the same skepticism to your religious text.




ted_BSR said:


> So Mark Twain is the reliable source that we should all base our decisions on? OK, or NOT. You might as well be quoting scripture on this forum, or the Chik Fil-a cows. That wasn't even his real name. It was Samuel Langhorne Clemens.



A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 1, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Really? So all the recorded murders and other violent crimes used to compile those statistics were just made up out of thin air? Too bad you don't apply the same skepticism to your religious text.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Statistics are not compiled, they are an interpretation of data. Data is compiled. I think the data is probably actual. Statistics are subjective.

HA! My religious text, as you have so brilliantly pointed out, is not based on "data", but rather on faith.


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## atlashunter (Oct 2, 2012)

Murder isn't very subjective. They're either dead or they aint! I know the faithful have a hard time grasping that but that's not my problem. Bottom line is the data doesn't support the assertion that a decline in belief in God leads to a higher crime rate.

Nice to see you admit the bible depends on credulity rather than facts. That's progress.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 2, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Murder isn't very subjective. They're either dead or they aint! I know the faithful have a hard time grasping that but that's not my problem. Bottom line is the data doesn't support the assertion that a decline in belief in God leads to a higher crime rate.
> 
> Nice to see you admit the bible depends on credulity rather than facts. That's progress.



Yes, dead is dead. As an example of bending statistics, many studies leave out murders that were committed by people that were less than 18 years of age. Kid perpetrators don't count. Just an example.

BTW, didn't Charlie Manson believe in God? Nevermind he thought he was God, but you get my meaning.


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## atlashunter (Oct 3, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Yes, dead is dead. As an example of bending statistics, many studies leave out murders that were committed by people that were less than 18 years of age. Kid perpetrators don't count. Just an example.
> 
> BTW, didn't Charlie Manson believe in God? Nevermind he thought he was God, but you get my meaning.



Yep, no shortage of theists in prison.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 4, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Yep, no shortage of theists in prison.



Maybe a better title for this thread might have been, "The country is getting religion wrong a lot more."


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## bushidobam (Oct 5, 2012)

Glad to hear people in this country are starting to wake up; starting to use their heads more.  Thanks for sharing this.

I don't post a whole lot on the Good Ol' Boy News Network anymore; get tired of the herd mentality, but your post may have just piqued the interest I've lacked for so long.

In closing, I'd just like to say (IMO) that those who need a book (you know which one I'm talking about) to live a good, moral, and prosperous life, are in far worse shape than this freethinker.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 5, 2012)

bushidobam said:


> ... those who need a book (you know which one I'm talking about) to live a good, moral, and prosperous life, are in far worse shape than this freethinker.



Don't be so hard on the Muslims.


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## bushidobam (Oct 5, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Don't be so hard on the Muslims.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 5, 2012)

We don't need a book to know right from wrong. That's something found in your heart. Christians don't have a monopoly on  living right. Atheist have morals equal to Christians. The only thing we(Christians) have going for us is forgiveness of wrongful doing. My heart tells me when I do something wrong. I sure don't need a book or person to tell me when i do wrong.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 6, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> We don't need a book to know right from wrong. That's something found in your heart. Christians don't have a monopoly on  living right. Atheist have morals equal to Christians. The only thing we(Christians) have going for us is forgiveness of wrongful doing. My heart tells me when I do something wrong. I sure don't need a book or person to tell me when i do wrong.



Morals are in no way shape or form = to the TRUTH.


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## bushidobam (Oct 6, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Morals are in no way shape or form = to the TRUTH.



No. You are right. But, morals, like the 'truth,' have many interpretations.  So I ask, who's truth are you referring to? The christian truth? Let's start with that. The catholic truth or the protestant truth? See where I'm going? 

My following analogy could be flawed, so if it is, someone please help me.  _You can't go to one math class and add up 2+2 and get 4, and then go to another math class, add up 2+2 and get 3.995._

But I digress, and am I'm taking the topic in a direction that the OP didn't intend.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 9, 2012)

bushidobam said:


> No. You are right. But, morals, like the 'truth,' have many interpretations.  So I ask, who's truth are you referring to? The christian truth? Let's start with that. The catholic truth or the protestant truth? See where I'm going?
> 
> My following analogy could be flawed, so if it is, someone please help me.  _You can't go to one math class and add up 2+2 and get 4, and then go to another math class, add up 2+2 and get 3.995._
> 
> But I digress, and am I'm taking the topic in a direction that the OP didn't intend.



There is no interpretation of the truth. It is what it is. I do not defend anyone's truth.

There is an absolute truth. I may not know what it is entirley, but it is not math.


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## HucK Finn (Oct 30, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> There are so many answers to that question I wouldn't even know where to start so let me just summarize.
> 
> The world is worse off because of religion.



I understand what you mean by this, as far as the amount of lives that have been lost in the name of religion, but most religions once you wade through all of the "fairy tale stuff" do teach good morals as well as accountability for ones actions.... The world could conseively be far worse if people realized that there may not be any recourse (hel, hades, whatever) for the foul actions that they commit during their lives.

Not a good example but maybe it will help with my point..... A lot of people may realize that they could steal from their neighbor, and never be caught by the law.... but due to morals that was instilled in them through religion, helps them to recognize that it is wrong even if they do not get caught..... Just imagine a world where everybody shared the opposite mentality, I think it would be far worse.... basically it would be a very barbaric world.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 30, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> There are so many answers to that question I wouldn't even know where to start so let me just summarize.
> 
> The world is worse off because of religion.



You just said there was less religion, so shouldn't the world be better at this point, than worse?


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## atlashunter (Nov 19, 2012)

HucK Finn said:


> I understand what you mean by this, as far as the amount of lives that have been lost in the name of religion, but most religions once you wade through all of the "fairy tale stuff" do teach good morals as well as accountability for ones actions.... The world could conseively be far worse if people realized that there may not be any recourse (hel, hades, whatever) for the foul actions that they commit during their lives.
> 
> Not a good example but maybe it will help with my point..... A lot of people may realize that they could steal from their neighbor, and never be caught by the law.... but due to morals that was instilled in them through religion, helps them to recognize that it is wrong even if they do not get caught..... Just imagine a world where everybody shared the opposite mentality, I think it would be far worse.... basically it would be a very barbaric world.



This is much the same defense of religion on the basis of charitable works. And the answer is the same in both cases. Charity and morality do not require religion and don't negate the bad aspects of religion.


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## Four (Nov 20, 2012)

HucK Finn said:


> I understand what you mean by this, as far as the amount of lives that have been lost in the name of religion, but most religions once you wade through all of the "fairy tale stuff" do teach good morals as well as accountability for ones actions.... The world could conseively be far worse if people realized that there may not be any recourse (hel, hades, whatever) for the foul actions that they commit during their lives.
> 
> Not a good example but maybe it will help with my point..... A lot of people may realize that they could steal from their neighbor, and never be caught by the law.... but due to morals that was instilled in them through religion, helps them to recognize that it is wrong even if they do not get caught..... Just imagine a world where everybody shared the opposite mentality, I think it would be far worse.... basically it would be a very barbaric world.



Totalitarian sky God demands morality or you'll be sent to the gulags!


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## stringmusic (Nov 20, 2012)

Four said:


> God demands morality or you'll be sent where there is no morality!



Fixed it for ya


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## Four (Nov 20, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Fixed it for ya



I bring morality with me


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