# Silver Lake WMA



## mecicon (Feb 12, 2012)

Anybody had any good fortune at Silver Lake WMA near Bainbridge this year?


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## TailCrackin (Feb 14, 2012)




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## coveyrise (Feb 17, 2012)

The hunting at Silver Lake has been terrible this year. Between the drought and the large scale burning combined with the constant hunting pressure it is destined to be the next ElModel. I trully feel sorry for the birds on that place. The state does not need to buy anymore land until they can afford to take care of what they have. Hopefully they will keep some of the money from the logging going on their now so they can buy some equipment to actually manage the place.


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## coveyrise90 (Feb 17, 2012)

Etter2 said:


> I don't want to step on anybody's toes who hunts there, but my buddy is a biologist in that area working on rcw's and there are plenty of coveys on river creek and silver lake.



Your definition of "plenty of coveys" must be totally different than mine. Does your buddy have dogs and hunt birds? I only ask because anybody that hunted Silver Lake regularly (and River Creek for that matter) knows that the birds there are in serious trouble. 

I know of national forest here in AL where the biologist (not a quail hunter) told me "We have plenty of birds... I hear them whistlin' all the time!" This is the same place where a friend hunted for 2 days straight with 4 setters and didn't find the first covey. When I speak to biologists from the state, I take their opinions for a grain of salt unless they actually hunt birds.


 Like coveyrise mentioned, the drought and burning hurt Silver Lake's already weak population and ruthless meathunters have destroyed what's left. I wouldn't even feel right about killing a bird out there now. That place had incredible potential but unless the state does something now, Silver Lake will never be what it once was. And River Creek is in worse shape habitat wise.

This economy is killing the birds. 


I've considered rebooting the Quail Unlimited chapter here in Dothan (now a "non-active" chapter) to focus efforts on improving habitat for wild birds on public land. But I don't know how a bunch of Alabama quail hunters would feel about me sending all of their money to efforts on Georgia WMAs!

Adam


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## coveyrise (Feb 17, 2012)

Etter2 said:


> I don't want to step on anybody's toes who hunts there, but my buddy is a biologist in that area working on rcw's and there are plenty of coveys on river creek and silver lake.


Thats strange, the states own quail biologist said the covey call counts on both of these places were very low. I also did quail counts in late oct. and early nov. and did'nt hear squat. The 2 biology students who live on Silver Lake told me and another person on this forum that they have seen 2 quail on Silver Lake this year. They are doing wild turkey studies as part of their master thesis and are in the woods every day on Silver Lake. If quail are that plentiful they would have walked into more birds than that. Your RCW buddy is probably hearing quail calling from a mile away while he is in the top of a tree checking a cavity. Are there quail on Silver  Lake? Absolutely. Just about 25% of what was on it when the state bought it.


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## Rebel's Dad (Feb 20, 2012)

Let's see.  A couple of years or so ago there were multiple threads about this place (and River Creek, which is less than 2500 acres), and the hunting available there.  Posted on a forum where anybody with a computer and an internet connection can see it.

And we're wondering why there are not as many birds there now?


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## coveyrise (Feb 20, 2012)

Rebel's Dad said:


> Let's see.  A couple of years or so ago there were multiple threads about this place (and River Creek, which is less than 2500 acres), and the hunting available there.  Posted on a forum where anybody with a computer and an internet connection can see it.
> 
> And we're wondering why there are not as many birds there now?



And everybody said "AMEN!"  

 Don't forget Appalachee in Fla. It was posted all over the internet. Opening day there were over 30 hunters there this year. It looked like a carnival had come to town. 75% of them had read about it on the internet. I hunted 1 hour and left and never went back.


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## coveyrise (Feb 20, 2012)

I have spent a few days this past month with some people that possibly can make a difference on our local WMA's but I have to ask myself is there anything anybody can truly do for our quail on our public land with the greed of some people today. It's a shame.


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## Beagle Stace (Feb 20, 2012)

Yep I think we all can say that someone that posts rather frequently on here learned a hard and rather cruel lesson about posting about quail numbers on public land. Meant well but unfortunately not all true wild bird hunters have the same ethics and sportsmanship when it comes to public land wild quail in the state of Ga. And yes I have hunted Silver Lake a few times in previous years shooting I belive a total of 4 birds on probably 4 hunts. But I did not learn of Silver Lake from this website. I travel all over the state with my job. 

I wish it was different but you have to be realistic. I have shot a whopping total of 1 wild quail this year. Hunted mostly WC due to dismal quail numbers. And I am fine with this.


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## coveyrise (Feb 21, 2012)

Hopefully we all live and learn.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 22, 2012)

I recently ran across this forum and thought I'd provide some information to hopefully help everyone understand what is happening on some of our WMA's.  Fall covey counts show that the quail numbers are down on Silverlake and Rivercreek.  The numbers on Elmodel were about the same as last year but still low.  There are birds on Silverlake but they seem to be in pockets, likely due to drought situation and available cover.  DNR is aware of the situation and is taking steps to address it.  A management plan is being written that will address the burning and habitat needs.  Habitat restoration is also underway at Elmodel.  The work being done on both WMAs is largely thanks to local groups that are concerned about the quail decline and have offered time and resources that would not have otherwise been available.  And yes, over-hunting is a big issue on these WMAs but it is not an issue that is easily solved.


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## mecicon (Feb 22, 2012)

quailbiologist said:


> The work being done on both WMAs is largely thanks to local groups that are concerned about the quail decline and have offered time and resources that would not have otherwise been available.  And yes, over-hunting is a big issue on these WMAs but it is not an issue that is easily solved.



Everyone feel free to give a little credit to:

http://quailforeveratlanta.org

One of our members made contact with the local biologist at Silver Lake and we are contributing to habitat improvement (approximately 4.5 hours from our homes) in order to improve opportunities for all.

I personally don't take offense at people getting frustrated with habitat organizations because I know we are doing projects. Just last quarter of 2011 we contributed to another project north of Atlanta.

It is a little discouraging to hear certain people complain about an organization and yet have never attended a meeting or banquet.

Sorry, I did not begin this post to cast aspersions, I was genuinely interested in finding out what people had found this year since I had not taken the opportunity to go to Silver Lake.


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## Dog Hunter (Feb 22, 2012)

The sad thing is that Silver Lake will probably never recover in our lifetime.


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## BirdNut (Feb 22, 2012)

quailbiologist said:


> I recently ran across this forum and thought I'd provide some information to hopefully help everyone understand what is happening on some of our WMA's.  Fall covey counts show that the quail numbers are down on Silverlake and Rivercreek.  The numbers on Elmodel were about the same as last year but still low.  There are birds on Silverlake but they seem to be in pockets, likely due to drought situation and available cover.  DNR is aware of the situation and is taking steps to address it.  A management plan is being written that will address the burning and habitat needs.  Habitat restoration is also underway at Elmodel.  The work being done on both WMAs is largely thanks to local groups that are concerned about the quail decline and have offered time and resources that would not have otherwise been available.  And yes, over-hunting is a big issue on these WMAs but it is not an issue that is easily solved.



First, I would like to thank you for contributing to the forum.

Secondly, on the over-hunting issue, why would not a habitat stamp and quota system be considered.  I think most bird hunters would 1)  pay a pretty high sum for an annual bird conservation stamp that would put money towards conservation work on WMAs and be required for small game access to the WMAs & 2)  Would support a quota or drawing system to restrict access.  I think almost all of us would be thrilled to have a trip or two a year in our home state instead of going to Kansas or Texas or further to actually hunt wild birds.  I know others and myself have personally shelled out some decent amount of cash to go to other places.  Its actually quite a travesty that Georgia is supposedly the quail capital of the world.  We should relinquish that title, because its quite disingenuous and highly misleading.

Also, while I am asking, why does not GA provide or try and provide WIHA like in the western states?  I think a program could be developed either on public or private land that was a partnership between hunters, landowners, and the DNR to make this work.  These and a number of other ideas are not new but I can tell you that they have been proposed to the DNR in the past and the response was a lot of "can't"s from the gentleman who was in charge of the BQI a few years ago.

I think we all understand that currently funds are hard to come by, but perhaps there are some creative options.

If you would like to discuss, but are not comfortable in the open forum, please PM me.


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## coveyrise90 (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for your input. I am glad to hear that the ATL QF chapter is contributing. 

But here is my issue. Last summer, I called the DNR office to ask about helping to maintain the wildlife openings at Silver Lake. The plots were (and still are) neglected to the point that trees are beginning to grow in them. I know several guys with tractors and disks ready and willing to volunteer to help maintain the openings. I was basically given the run-around and turned down. So instead, the plots continue to become overgrown. I don't understand this. They say they're broke and cant afford to do it themselves, but then turn down help when it's offered! And what's worse, I am not the only person to have experienced this.

If you want more birds at SL, you'd only have to do a few things: 

1) Drop the limit!!!!! Overhunting is KILLING Silver Lake. A drop in the limit would help put an end to the slaughter.
2) Accept volunteer work to maintain the openings. Even if it's only disking, it can provide natural feed and bugging areas.
3) Break down the burns, I know burning in big blocks in easier but it wouldn't cost that much more to burn in smaller blocks.
4) Cut timber to thin the woods and increase the number of openings. I know that no new opening can be created in longleaf but there's plenty of loblolly. 

All of these are practices can be implemented immediately (at very little expense to the state... some would actually make money!!!) and would drastically improve quail numbers. Why put it off any longer?

Thanks

Adam


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## BirdNut (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree on the limit drop...3 or 6 birds per party would winnow out the meat hunters.  The meat hunters may still decimate one covey to get "their" limit, but its tough to legislate morals and character, and some people will never have either, no matter what you do.

Some people who have never killed a limit will do so when presented with the opportunity, even if its detrimental to the future of being able to do so again.  At this stage of the game, 2 hunters have NO BUSINESS feeling good about taking 24 birds off public land anywhere in Georgia.


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## coveyrise (Feb 23, 2012)

Why don't we actually plan a meeting with the DNR that any and all concerned bird hunters can attend and get this stuff worked out. We need to get to work and try to see what can be done on these WMA's. By the way Adam they are logging a big section of planted pines as we speak. 
When ElModel first opened you couild only hunt on Sat.,Sun. and state holidays. And there were no deer hunters. Why did that stop? Now it's a free for all.


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## BirdNut (Feb 23, 2012)

River Creek was initially a quota hunt, and that was eliminated.  I was lucky enough to be drawn for the first ever quota hunt there.  We did allright, and not better mainly because we and another party had the same ideas how to hunt the place, so we were on the heels of the other party all the time, and as a courtesy, to give them room to hunt, we hunted some marginal areas most of that first hunt.  The other party had a fair amount of shooting.

There were some pretty nice areas on RC, but I would say less than 10% of the whole place, since the prior owners were more into management for deer.  A large proportion of it was probably 1 or 2 years away from being really nice quail habitat.

I was also drawn for the second year.  We found a bird.  1.  A Single.  All by itself.  Really strange.  We also found a big x-shaped cleared out area with a blank space and corrugated tin half buried leading to the gap in the center.  There was bird feed on the ground.  There was no trap there at that time, probably because someone hauled it off, but I gotta tell you, I think someone trapped those birds out of there before the hunt.  Dirty pool if you ask me.  I think the single was the only bird on the place that didn't hear the dinner bell and make it into the Quail Hotel.

Now, if I am not mistaken, River Creek is open for an extended period, though not the whole season.  I would imagine you could not find a covey there if your life depended on it.


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## BirdNut (Feb 23, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> Why don't we actually plan a meeting with the DNR that any and all concerned bird hunters can attend and get this stuff worked out. We need to get to work and try to see what can be done on these WMA's. By the way Adam they are logging a big section of planted pines as we speak.
> When ElModel first opened you couild only hunt on Sat.,Sun. and state holidays. And there were no deer hunters. Why did that stop? Now it's a free for all.



This is a great idea...squeaky wheel gets the grease.


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## coveyrise (Feb 23, 2012)

BirdNut,

There are still a few birds left on most of the WMA's, its just getting scary how few there are. I work dogs mainly in Fla. in the national forest. There is over a million acres of forest land within an hour drive of my house. The birds are really spread out. I sometimes drive miles between coveys but know where over a hundred wild coveys are. This year has been my worst season ever  for public land hunting mostly because of the drought and the late burns and lack of cover. I still managed a 12 covey day this year.[Saw not pointed] Also this stinking heat has kept me out of some of the best bird spots because of snakes. The largest concentration of eastern diamondback rattlers is found in the ANF.
Sorry to get off the thread. Just thinking of all the birds I did not get to visit this year.


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## BirdNut (Feb 23, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> BirdNut,
> 
> There are still a few birds left on most of the WMA's, its just getting scary how few there are. I work dogs mainly in Fla. in the national forest. There is over a million acres of forest land within an hour drive of my house. The birds are really spread out. I sometimes drive miles between coveys but know where over a hundred wild coveys are. This year has been my worst season ever  for public land hunting mostly because of the drought and the late burns and lack of cover. I still managed a 12 covey day this year.[Saw not pointed] Also this stinking heat has kept me out of some of the best bird spots because of snakes. The largest concentration of eastern diamondback rattlers is found in the ANF.
> Sorry to get off the thread. Just thinking of all the birds I did not get to visit this year.



12 covies is very impressive...my best in GA in recent history has been 5, spot-hunting as you describe, but I tend to putter around too long in a spot when its not productive.  On these kinds of days, we run about a 50% hit rate on our covey map...finding coveys at half the places we stop.  That is encouraging that even in today's situation you can do 12.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 23, 2012)

*Habitat stamp*



BirdNut said:


> Secondly, on the over-hunting issue, why would not a habitat stamp and quota system be considered.  I think most bird hunters would 1)  pay a pretty high sum for an annual bird conservation stamp that would put money towards conservation work on WMAs and be required for small game access to the WMAs & 2)  Would support a quota or drawing system to restrict access.



The idea of an upland habitat stamp has been thrown around alot lately.  There is great blog on the National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative website (www.bringbackbobwhites.org) that discusses the advantages and disadvantages of this.  Alot of upland hunters are willing to pay the price, they just need to let headquarters and the state legislature know.
As far as WIHAs, 1) we have lost money for WMA leases which are essentially the same thing (leasing private land for public use) 2) not alot of people are willing to turn the public loose on their property thanks to a few bad apples.  But again, if the public wants this, all you can do is let headquarters and your representatives know.
Just remember to take a look at the negatives to some of these programs as well, they sometime out weigh the benefits.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 23, 2012)

*silverlake mgmt*



coveyrise90 said:


> But here is my issue. Last summer, I called the DNR office to ask about helping to maintain the wildlife openings at Silver Lake. The plots were (and still are) neglected to the point that trees are beginning to grow in them. I know several guys with tractors and disks ready and willing to volunteer to help maintain the openings. .
> 
> If you want more birds at SL, you'd only have to do a few things:
> 
> ...



I have heard from a lot of people saying they have offered assistance and been turned down.  I'm not sure how some were able while others were not but I'll check into it.
The openings on Silverlake and the burn sizes are an issue.  There is a plan in place to address these and other concerns and hopefully you will begin to see changes this year.  Timber is currently being thinned on sections of Silverlake and the plan is to add openings and this includes the longleaf stands when they are thinned.  There are discussions about dropping limits or implementing quotas on Silverlake that is one of the reasons we are conducting fall covey counts.  We have to have the data to back it up, we can't just make changes because of a feeling or want.  If we did that we would have people wanting to change the regs to allow the release of pheasants or ostriches just because they felt they should be able to hunt them on public lands!
Changes are being made, some will take longer than others and some may not happen until the budgets turn around.  Keep voicing your concerns.  There are few people listening.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 23, 2012)

When limits/quotas are changed on the WMAs, it is usually because that is what the public wanted.  Perception used to be that we live in quail country,the quail will always be here and everyone should have opportunity to hunt them when ever.  Unfortunately that has not worked out so well for us and we need to make new changes.


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## TailCrackin (Feb 23, 2012)

quailbiologist said:


> I have heard from a lot of people saying they have offered assistance and been turned down.  I'm not sure how some were able while others were not but I'll check into it.
> The openings on Silverlake and the burn sizes are an issue.  There is a plan in place to address these and other concerns and hopefully you will begin to see changes this year.  Timber is currently being thinned on sections of Silverlake and the plan is to add openings and this includes the longleaf stands when they are thinned.  There are discussions about dropping limits or implementing quotas on Silverlake that is one of the reasons we are conducting fall covey counts.  We have to have the data to back it up, we can't just make changes because of a feeling or want.  If we did that we would have people wanting to change the regs to allow the release of pheasants or ostriches just because they felt they should be able to hunt them on public lands!
> Changes are being made, some will take longer than others and some may not happen until the budgets turn around.  Keep voicing your concerns.  There are few people listening.



Appreciate the input!


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## coveyrise90 (Feb 23, 2012)

What about turning a section into a dog-training area? No firearms.... just blank guns. Then those who TRULY appreciate wild birds can "hunt" them and those that only care about killing will go elsewhere. 

I just hope that it doesn't turn into a quota hunt. I think dropping the limit and limiting the days of the week we can hunt would be plenty. Quota hunts suck!

And I'm glad to hear the habitat is being improved.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 23, 2012)

The are plans to develop a dog-training area on Elmodel and work is underway.  Albany Nursery is also open for dog training.

I was just out at Elmodel today.  A lot of work is being done there right now to improve the habitat: small burn blocks, disking, invasive tree removal.

I also notice someone mentioning the Bermuda grass problem in another thread.  There are plans to begin spraying those areas this spring.


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## coveyrise (Feb 23, 2012)

quailbiologist said:


> I have heard from a lot of people saying they have offered assistance and been turned down.  I'm not sure how some were able while others were not but I'll check into it.
> The openings on Silverlake and the burn sizes are an issue.  There is a plan in place to address these and other concerns and hopefully you will begin to see changes this year.  Timber is currently being thinned on sections of Silverlake and the plan is to add openings and this includes the longleaf stands when they are thinned.  There are discussions about dropping limits or implementing quotas on Silverlake that is one of the reasons we are conducting fall covey counts.  We have to have the data to back it up, we can't just make changes because of a feeling or want.  If we did that we would have people wanting to change the regs to allow the release of pheasants or ostriches just because they felt they should be able to hunt them on public lands!
> Changes are being made, some will take longer than others and some may not happen until the budgets turn around.  Keep voicing your concerns.  There are few people listening.



How do we voice our concerns and to whom? When and with whom can we all have a meeting with to voice our concerns? Hopefully we don't have to do it through e-mails or over the forum. We need change quick. On some of these places you are getting down to your last cigar. One more question. Will the money from the timber cut be kept for projects on Silver Lake or go into the general fund?


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## mecicon (Feb 23, 2012)

coveyrise90 said:


> What about turning a section into a dog-training area? No firearms.... just blank guns. Then those who TRULY appreciate wild birds can "hunt" them and those that only care about killing will go elsewhere.
> 
> I just hope that it doesn't turn into a quota hunt. I think dropping the limit and limiting the days of the week we can hunt would be plenty. Quota hunts suck!
> 
> And I'm glad to hear the habitat is being improved.



I am with you on that. Lower limits is preferable to Quota hunts.


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## coveyrise (Feb 23, 2012)

quailbiologist said:


> The are plans to develop a dog-training area on Elmodel and work is underway.  Albany Nursery is also open for dog training.
> 
> I was just out at Elmodel today.  A lot of work is being done there right now to improve the habitat: small burn blocks, disking, invasive tree removal.
> 
> I also notice someone mentioning the Bermuda grass problem in another thread.  There are plans to begin spraying those areas this spring.



Thats great to hear. Elmodel deserves some respect. Do you think there is a chance of destroying that Bermuda with a young stand of timber over it? Seems you would have to spray it too hot. Any chance of doing away with the cotton crop? I know plenty of farmers looking for land to plant corn,soybeans or peanuts on. Been to WMA's in almost every southern state. Never seen cotton planted on any but Elmodel. Corn would be a great thing to plant. Especially if you left a few rows around the edges.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 24, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> How do we voice our concerns and to whom? When and with whom can we all have a meeting with to voice our concerns? Hopefully we don't have to do it through e-mails or over the forum. We need change quick. On some of these places you are getting down to your last cigar. One more question. Will the money from the timber cut be kept for projects on Silver Lake or go into the general fund?



Contact the biologist in the region you are interested in and I'm sure you can work out a time and place to sit down and voice concerns as well as get information on what is really happening.  Don't expect to meet right away, the regions are short staffed and are trying to get burning, etc done at this time.  The best approach may be to work through one of the organizations like QU or QF and set up a meeting were alot of people could attend.

As for the money from timber harvests, I'm pretty sure they go into the general fund.

I asked around about the issue of volunteering and found out the following:
1)liability issues arise when allowing the public to use DNR equipment.
2)due to being short staffed there is often the problem of not having anyone available to oversee the volunteers and provide guidance.
3)often people volunteer to provide assistance that they see as necessary but does not fall within the managment plan for the property (i.e. volunteering to plant food plots - this doesn't provide a lot of benefit to quail especially when cover is lacking)
4)a lot of volunteers are not willing to help with smaller tasks such as painting gates, repairing roads that are essential and free the biologist and technicians allowing them to work on larger projects.

These are some of the reasons that volunteers are not always used.  This is not to say that volunteers are not needed or appreciated.  If you are willing to work and do what is needed then contact the region.  Again, the best approach may be to work through a local group.

Remember habitat change takes time and is a constant effort.


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## quailbiologist (Feb 24, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> Thats great to hear. Elmodel deserves some respect. Do you think there is a chance of destroying that Bermuda with a young stand of timber over it? Seems you would have to spray it too hot. Any chance of doing away with the cotton crop? I know plenty of farmers looking for land to plant corn,soybeans or peanuts on. Been to WMA's in almost every southern state. Never seen cotton planted on any but Elmodel. Corn would be a great thing to plant. Especially if you left a few rows around the edges.



The Bermuda that is within the timber stands is pretty much a lost cause at this point.  All that can be done is try to keep it from spreading and maybe knock it back a bit.  The focus is on the fallow areas and areas that do not have good pine survival.
The cropland on Elmodel is under contract which spells out what is and is not allowed.


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## coveyrise (Feb 24, 2012)

This has been a great thread. I think it is time to increase the cost of a WMA stamp. You can't take your kids to the movies for the price of a WMA stamp. Think of the thousands of acres we have access to for such a low price. We complain about what we want done but when it comes time to annie up we seem to quiet down quickly. Even a 5 dollar increase would help.


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## maker4life (Feb 24, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> This has been a great thread. I think it is time to increase the cost of a WMA stamp. You can't take your kids to the movies for the price of a WMA stamp. Think of the thousands of acres we have access to for such a low price. We complain about what we want done but when it comes time to annie up we seem to quiet down quickly. Even a 5 dollar increase would help.



I have to agree . I tend to lean the opposite way of government but this is an area where I'd gladly pay double the current price whether I ever even used it or not .

But I absolutely don't want a quota hunt . I think the quota ballots get stuffed by folks applying just for the heck of it or some who want to try to kill everything just because they got picked . I'd rather just see  the limt dropped on public land and greater penalties for anyone caught over .


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## speedcop (Feb 24, 2012)

It's not just SL. I have lived and quail hunted here in sw ga. since 1977. For 25 yrs. I was privileged to have thousands of private farm land to hunt. It was nothing to find 14-16 coveys a day with 20-30 birds a covey walking all day. Then when cotton went "gold", and was planted fence to fence the heads and fence rows dissapeared.

The chemical that was being used I think is no longer, but we saw young dead birds along the edges of the field. Not a lot, but some nonetheless. But what did increase was fire ants. You cant put your hand on  the ground here and in less than couple of minutes and have ants on you. What quail nest we would find in the spring were covered with fire ants. Droughts got worse, ants increased and habitat got smaller. The last wild quail hunt was 6 yrs. ago. We found 2 coveys with 8-9 birds all day.

When you shot a bird down if you didnt find him real soon he would be covered in ants. I can only imagine young poults hatching and overrun by ants. Im no expert but we witnessed this like in a slow motion movie. I saw two wild coveys this year scouting a dove field.  Promising, but I dont think i'll ever see them come back in my lifetime. 

And you have to remember this was private land. No pressure at all. No meat hunters like public land.


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## coveyrise (Feb 24, 2012)

speedcop said:


> It's not just SL. I have lived and quail hunted here in sw ga. since 1977. For 25 yrs. I was privileged to have thousands of private farm land to hunt. It was nothing to find 14-16 coveys a day with 20-30 birds a covey walking all day. Then when cotton went "gold", and was planted fence to fence the heads and fence rows dissapeared.
> 
> The chemical that was being used I think is no longer, but we saw young dead birds along the edges of the field. Not a lot, but some nonetheless. But what did increase was fire ants. You cant put your hand on  the ground here and in less than couple of minutes and have ants on you. What quail nest we would find in the spring were covered with fire ants. Droughts got worse, ants increased and habitat got smaller. The last wild quail hunt was 6 yrs. ago. We found 2 coveys with 8-9 birds all day.
> 
> ...



I don't see farming practices getting any more quail friendly either since the drought. I have seen more fence rows being cleared of  trees this year than ever before. I know most of the bulldozer guys in the area are reaping some of the rewards of the high grain prices. I hate to see these old fence rows disappear. And so do the quail.


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## coveyrise90 (Feb 24, 2012)

I agree Dave, I've seen SEVERAL fields this year get "cleaned" up. I have also seen 3 areas this summer where nice sections of pinewoods were clear cut and then converted to farm land. On our lease, we will likely lose 100 acres of mature longleaf in the next couple years to be converted to farmland.

It's hard to compete with commodity prices nowadays.


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## coveyrise (Feb 25, 2012)

Adam,

Have you seen that huge field on Ten Mile Still rd. that was longleaf and wiregrass? Those dozers and excavators have been there forever clearing that land. Another reason to praise the state for buying and protecting Silver Lake from development.


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## hogana (Feb 25, 2012)

I agree that this is an excellent thread.  I have been encouraged by the work of the QF chapter from North Atlanta.  I have therefore renewed my membership with the organization and hope that many others will also get involved with a solid group that can assist in some way with habitat development on WMAs.    Lots of great voices here saying very much the same things.


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## coveyrise (Feb 25, 2012)

Can someone tell us more about the work that the North Atlanta QF chapter is doing. I am already a member of QF and maybe could become a long distance member of this chapter.


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## mecicon (Mar 4, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> Can someone tell us more about the work that the North Atlanta QF chapter is doing. I am already a member of QF and maybe could become a long distance member of this chapter.



We try to put updates on our website http://quailforeveratlanta.org whenever possible.

We are having our next banquet on May 22, 2012 in Alpharetta at the American Legion 201 Wills Road
Alpharetta, GA 30009 more info to come.

We have already completed projects on both public and private land. The work at Silver Lake is ambitious because most of our members do not travel 4.5 hours to public land to hunt, however; after hearing Reggie Thackston we decided we could have more lasting impact on Silver Lake.

Currently we meet at the Red Lobster on Holcomb Bridge road in Roswell every other Monday @ 7:00 PM.

For additional information feel free to PM me.


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## coveyrise (Mar 4, 2012)

I talked to Reggie the other day and found out that Silver Lake would be going to a quota system next year along with Elmodel. I strongly do not agree with that. I think quota's would only further restrict the few hunters that are left to the point that many will throw in the towel if our public land is not available except on a lottery draw. The state could have kept from going to a quota if they would have managed Silver Lake through less hunting days and smaller bag limits from the start. Also those large scale burns with the helicopter that go against all game management rules really irritate me.
I will try to attend the banquet this year. My hat is off to you for trying to make a difference.Thanks for the update and info.


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## maker4life (Mar 5, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> I talked to Reggie the other day and found out that Silver Lake would be going to a quota system next year along with Elmodel. I strongly do not agree with that. I think quota's would only further restrict the few hunters that are left to the point that many will throw in the towel if our public land is not available except on a lottery draw. The state could have kept from going to a quota if they would have managed Silver Lake through less hunting days and smaller bag limits from the start. Also those large scale burns with the helicopter that go against all game management rules really irritate me.I will try to attend the banquet this year. My hat is off to you for trying to make a difference.Thanks for the update and info.


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## BirdNut (Mar 5, 2012)

I am confused a little by the on-again off-again quota direction that the state takes.  Personally, I am on the fence regarding how it will impact us as  group and losing hunters, or will it encourage folks.  

As far as the state, RC was a quota, now its now, SL was not, now apparently it will be.  I am not sure the rationale, although I have been to RC and it was a marginal quail property, having been primarily managed before the state took it for deer.  There were some quail present on the first year quota hunt, but the second year quota hunt was almost a bust.

I have been on a couple of the quota's through the years and when I get drawn its something I look forward to all year.  For me, its a little like trying to get to the Superbowl, or at least the county championship.  It makes breaking down and going to a preserve worthwhile when I know that once or twice a year, the dogs will get the chance to work on some birds where we have a reasonable expectation to get some good covey contacts.  Whether the individuals on the hunt choose to shoot down the covey's or not becomes a choice of personal ethics.  Even when they drop the limit, some folks will still pound the same coveys, and likely still take too many per covey.

Can't comment on the burns as I have not seen them in person.

I am one of those folks on the verge of throwing in the towel. As the dogs age and expire I have been weighing this heavily in my own mind.  However, my young sons' interest in bird dogs and hunting has swayed me to stay in the game, at least for now.  I am mixed on the restriction of access.  I have a house to go to down in Bainbridge, and we rarely go-the last time we hunted was 2007 or 2008, since the farm timber grew up.  I have never been to SL, but every year pre-season planned to go-just never came to pass.

I can also say, that having been on some good quota hunts (good being relative, like 4-5 coveys in a day), and some poor ones where it seemed the birds had been trapped or taken up by aliens, the bad ones make for some serious frustration because you build it up all season then its a bust.


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## Coach K (Mar 5, 2012)

I support the quota hunts so that it keeps the unethical from hunting the coveys down.  

However, the best thing that can be done to avoid a quota, & sustain a better population of wild quail, is make certain areas/tracts off limits..like they do at the Western KY Wildlife Management area in Paducah, KY.  There are 12-14 zones of which half may be hunted and the other half of the acreage is sanctuary where quail may not be harvested.  That way you always have a base population that can repopulate the hunted areas.  If hunters have no ethics and shoot the coveys down too far the birds in the off limit zones have sufficient #'s to repopulate.   This Western KY WMA area is where they run the National Invitational around Dec. (The top 12 American Field (all age) trial dogs are invited)  I believe it is run on wild quail exclusively.  It is the best place in KY to hunt quail.


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## BirdNut (Mar 5, 2012)

Coach K  - thanks for posting-I think new ideas are needed in GA.    I think this is a really good idea.

I would say though that a lot of the GA "quail" WMA's are too small in terms of habitat for there to be open and closed zones.

In fact, I think the Georgia WMA's cannot support wide-spread harvest at all, nor would it be wise to allow un-fettered access.  The quail populations in our state are tenuous at best, and we have all apparently seen/heard the impacts of a few meat hunters can have.  

Even too many responsible folks can negatively hurt the quail.  For example, if you and I go hunting on public land, and agree to shoot covey rise only, then our first covey gets up, you shoot and get a double because you are a fantastic shot and I come up at zero, because, well, uh, some brush got in my way, then we compare notes only to realize there were only 8 birds in that covey, now less 2 for only six.  If we find 5 or 6 coveys during the day the same thing might happen.  Pretty soon, even though we are responsible, ethical, self-regulating hunters, we have had a negative impact.

I think you would need 100,000+ acres contiguous public (i.e. National Forest) land that is constantly under a cut/thin/burn regimen in small blocks to support any kind of even moderate hunting pressure.

People used to tease grouse hunters about how secretive they were about their coverts...some folks would give up their first born rather than tell you where grouse might be.  Now quail hunters make the grouse folks look like they all signed the freedom of information act.

In the public setting, I would still hope to see a lottery or quota or stamp system in place that puts some restraint on the harvest and access, for example maybe every hunter buys a STATE quail habitat stamp (lord knows it shouldn't ever be FEDERAL), and gets a harvest card a lot like deer tags.  I don't know what the limits ought to be, but some kind of season bag limit on public land.   Of course there is a lot of honor system here.  I would also think we might see a system where we are drawn for areas/periods of time where we can hunt.  Lets say for example WMA X is has 20,000 acres of quail habitat, and there is a lottery or quota system.  Maybe I am drawn to hunt the first 2 weeks it is open and you are drawn the second 2 weeks, etc.  And our harvest cards limit our take, plus our daily bag limit might be reduced by regulation (and even further voluntarily) as well.  This might be better than getting drawn for 1 time where it might be 85 degrees and raining a foot.

Unfortunately, if you want to go kill a lot of birds, you will need to go to pen-raised.  I don't think the wild bird/habitat situation just won't support it on public land, not will it ever.


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## coveyrise (Mar 5, 2012)

Many things that you all have said make a lot of sense but will probably never be inacted.Remember any time you have to keep up with any kind of quota you need manpower.The more stipulations the more red tape. Manpower is something the state is short of. I have been trying for years to get someone to sponsor a bill to have a state quail stamp only to be told there is no interest. Both my state senator and Representative are friends of mine and both are quail hunters and I still get knowhere. Any time you introduce a bill that would call for an increase or create a new fee your opponent in the next election will pound you for increasing taxes on the poor old common man. 
Nursery grounds is another way as coach said to make sure you have a viable breeding population on these WMA's but it seems enforcement would be a challenge so the state does not want to go there. Also SL has some nice property adjoining it that is heavily managed for quail and will always be like a nursery ground. It also acts like a sponge, sucking the birds off of SL with that big feed line they have right off the property line.
 I just still have a problem with having to put my name in for a drawing for a chance to hunt on land I already own. What if all the WMA's go to quota's and you never get drawn? Would you still think they were so great? Would that be fair? Does it make since to feed a dog all year for a chance to hunt on a WMA? Cut the days of hunting and harvest. Same effect as quota.If you do go to quota    at least leave a small portion of it open so folks can take their dogs out and run them around and pretend they are quail hunting. That is all quail hunting has become on most of the WMA's anyway. Just pretend.


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## BirdNut (Mar 5, 2012)

I hear you coveyrise.  Its quite a conundrum we are in.

I liken it to turkeys,  there are a ton of turkeys in this state (blessedly), and there are some WMA or other public land open for hunting year round and there are others that are strictly draw hunts.  I put in for the draw hunts so I can get rejected and once every 3 or 4 years go on a pretty exclusive, yet "free" hunt on as you point out, land I (and you) already own.  Some of these hunts are pretty special, some of them are complete wastes of time.

I am also in a lease to hunt turkeys, and I hit some other open public lands pretty regularly.  The crowds usually thin out pretty quick on the open places, and thankfully, turkeys are hard enough that just anyone stumbling around in the woods doesn't kill them all.  I dearly love to turkey hunt, but even a great turkey hunt does not hold a candle to a good day afield with friends and bird dogs.

Now with the quail, we have nowhere near the public land resource as we do with turkeys.  I have put in for the existing quota's and continue to do so.  I get rejected from time to time, and I am pretty disappointed.  I have also missed some hunts due to kids being sick, called out of town for work, or whatever.

I don't know what the answers are because I think you have very true and valid points:  manpower, increased tax, reduced access.  I wish there was an easy answer, or a magic wand, or a time machine.

It does make it hard to keep dogs all year long-it's a curse really to love bird dogs so much.  It's funny that you should write that it's pretend because that's what it is-hunt all day and find zero to five coveys and feel bad about inviting someone to go, because you don't know if its going to be one of the good days or the bad days.

Its a real possibility that the quota's would fill up so fast each year and it would be like the turkey hunts where you get to go once every 3-5 years.  In dog lives, that equates to maybe 3 times in their lifetime.  Not worth it...so you go to preserves and deep down hate yourself for it.  

Again its funny you should say pretend, because that's how I was thinking on the way back up from the dog kennels just now where I returned from a little visit.  I always like to go down and see them before I (and they) hit the hay.  I was thinking where could I go next fall, and I need to make time to do it too, because hunting in Georgia is pretty much a waste of time.  Pheasants (which I don't really care for) in one of the Dakotas, or Nebraska, or Kansas for a mixed bag?  Grouse in the upper midwest, maybe the UP of Michigan?  Or really get on the road and go out west?  I think I owe it to my dogs to get them into some real bird hunting; I have had two pass that I always intended on going, but never did.  I also was thinking how ironic it is that I am thinking of traveling to places where people used to come from to our state to experience some "real" wild bird hunting...


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## Coach K (Mar 6, 2012)

BirdNut said:


> Coach K  - thanks for posting-I think new ideas are needed in GA.    I think this is a really good idea.
> 
> I would say though that a lot of the GA "quail" WMA's are too small in terms of habitat for there to be open and closed zones.
> 
> ...



Western KY WMA = under 7000 acres


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## coveyrise (Mar 6, 2012)

Birdnut,
I saw something funny this year. I ran into a guy from Texas that was hunting on a WMA in Ga. He said he had read  about how good the hunting was a while back and had finally found the time to make the trip. Imagine driving all the way from Texas to hunt on a WMA. Hope he found some birds. What a die hard. How quick things can change.

I am at a cross road this year where I know if I continue to quail hunt that am going to need to lease some land. I am looking at a 800 acre and a 1000 acre lease next door to some very old plantations in Thomasville. The more I do the math the more I begin to realize how insane I have become. Quail hunting has once again become a rich mans sport.I am blessed to have good friends with excellent properties but its time to reciprocate. Years ago I was the one with the offshore boat that carried the land owners on the fishing trips. That too has become a rich mans sport with gas at $5 a gallon. Maybe I should do as all my friends have done and become a Tarpon and Redfish addict.


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## Sam H (Mar 7, 2012)

David....There are a lot worse thing in life to have to do than go after Tarpon and redfish...especially if you do it with a fly rod...because , thats a HUGE challange!!


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## BirdNut (Mar 7, 2012)

Coach K said:


> Western KY WMA = under 7000 acres



I internet scouted as soon as you posted and noticed its size.  Also a neat set-up where the core, center area is off limits and you can hunt the edge.  This would seem to drive the birds either to the core or off property-a reasonable, workable set-up apparantly proven by results.

Is it surround by hundreds upon thousands of acres of Fescue or bermuda pastures with squeeky clean fencerows and 15 year old heavily stocked pine plantations as the typical WMA in GA?  I am not asking to be argumentative, only for enlightenment.

 I have often thought those charged with growing the quail population here in the state ought to go on a little "exchange student" trip with places that do have quail, because what we are doing here is not working.  I have said it in other posts, I would welcome someone to prove me wrong here.

My background is in science and engineering, so I ought to know better then to make the following statement based purely on personal experience:  When the state has acquired properties in the past (and there are several, not just in South GA either) that had a viable quail population, within 3 to 5 years, the quail population is reduced up to 75% or more.  I have witnessed this personally, it has not been a scientific study.  I have seen old fields planted to pines, areas that could have been better managed for quail, and turkey and deer for that matter.  So I don't totally buy the "money" argument.  Those trees weren't planted for free.  It is the "easy" solution though.  There ought to be some accountability for the state programs and what they do/don't do with the funds (what little they are) that are appropriated.  Do you really need biologists on staff when you have Tall Timbers, Cesar Kleberg, and other private well funded foundations doing some impressive research?  Maybe if there is to be state funded research it should only be conducted at the University level as it is at Mississippi State (or was, not sure if it still is).  Maybe we need more people on the pointy end of the stick so to speak on tractors and cutting firebreaks than we do PhDs?  Is the poor little quail suffering from a case of too many coaches and not enough players?


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## Dog Hunter (Mar 7, 2012)

I don't believe the area surrounding SL can help much with building a quail population that will support any increased amount of hunting.


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## BirdNut (Mar 7, 2012)

coveyrise said:


> Birdnut,
> I saw something funny this year. I ran into a guy from Texas that was hunting on a WMA in Ga. He said he had read  about how good the hunting was a while back and had finally found the time to make the trip. Imagine driving all the way from Texas to hunt on a WMA. Hope he found some birds. What a die hard. How quick things can change.
> 
> I am at a cross road this year where I know if I continue to quail hunt that am going to need to lease some land. I am looking at a 800 acre and a 1000 acre lease next door to some very old plantations in Thomasville. The more I do the math the more I begin to realize how insane I have become. Quail hunting has once again become a rich mans sport.I am blessed to have good friends with excellent properties but its time to reciprocate. Years ago I was the one with the offshore boat that carried the land owners on the fishing trips. That too has become a rich mans sport with gas at $5 a gallon. Maybe I should do as all my friends have done and become a Tarpon and Redfish addict.



A couple of the die hards I know from Texas are giving up...because they are aging and have dipped into occasional single-digit covey days (i.e. less than 10).  Its all relative.  I would walk till my boots fell off my bloody feet for 9 or 10 coveys a day, but these guys are selling or giving away dogs and saving their money for "big out of state" trips.  I wish I knew the one was wanting to place his dogs somewhere...he had a real nice pair of 6 year old setters and I have never had setters and always wanted one or two.

I hear you on the fishing...went to Key West on January weekend rather than bird hunt, and it was phenomenal.  It would be tempting to throw in the towel & fish all the time.


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## Coach K (Mar 7, 2012)

BirdNut said:


> I internet scouted as soon as you posted and noticed its size.  Also a neat set-up where the core, center area is off limits and you can hunt the edge.  This would seem to drive the birds either to the core or off property-a reasonable, workable set-up apparantly proven by results.
> 
> Is it surround by hundreds upon thousands of acres of Fescue or bermuda pastures with squeeky clean fencerows and 15 year old heavily stocked pine plantations as the typical WMA in GA?  I am not asking to be argumentative, only for enlightenment.
> 
> ...



The center is off limits because it's a nuclear reactor.  there's signs all around about not letting dogs drink water from the puddles, etc.  I never really liked to get too close to the plant.  & it's pretty heavily secured anyway.   KY is the worst fescue pastured state in the country probably.  The DNR recommended it & the entire state was consumed by it.  Now they are having a dickens of a time trying to convert everything back to warm season grasses.  It will be near impossible.  Very few people wild quail hunt in KY.  The WMA's are just the worst for quail.  There are only two that are even worth visiting & the Western KY WMA is the best.   A couple friends have been trying to do the surrogators, but they are having trouble with predators.  They're getting frustrated and hunt very little.  GA is in much better shape than KY for sure.


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## FredBearYooper (Mar 8, 2012)

BirdNut said:


> I hear you coveyrise.  Its quite a conundrum we are in.
> 
> I liken it to turkeys,  there are a ton of turkeys in this state (blessedly), and there are some WMA or other public land open for hunting year round and there are others that are strictly draw hunts.  I put in for the draw hunts so I can get rejected and once every 3 or 4 years go on a pretty exclusive, yet "free" hunt on as you point out, land I (and you) already own.  Some of these hunts are pretty special, some of them are complete wastes of time.
> 
> ...



If you want to get on some partridge in god's country just let me know..I would have no problem letting you in one my special spots since it will be a couple years before I get to hunt them again!


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## BirdNut (Mar 8, 2012)

Coach K said:


> The center is off limits because it's a nuclear reactor.  there's signs all around about not letting dogs drink water from the puddles, etc.  I never really liked to get too close to the plant.  & it's pretty heavily secured anyway.   KY is the worst fescue pastured state in the country probably.  The DNR recommended it & the entire state was consumed by it.  Now they are having a dickens of a time trying to convert everything back to warm season grasses.  It will be near impossible.  Very few people wild quail hunt in KY.  The WMA's are just the worst for quail.  There are only two that are even worth visiting & the Western KY WMA is the best.   A couple friends have been trying to do the surrogators, but they are having trouble with predators.  They're getting frustrated and hunt very little.  GA is in much better shape than KY for sure.





I hear there is some nice hunting in Japan around Fukushima.

Savannah River Site has some HUGE hogs.  Never been, wading in radioactive mud always seemed like a bad idea.


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