# The Birth of Jesus



## Ronnie T (Dec 17, 2010)

If Jesus had not been born what would be different today?
In your life, in America, throughout the world.


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## Senoj (Dec 17, 2010)

We could only speculate and guess but personally i will say hopelessness. We would suffer the penalty ourselves. Not sure how the world at large would be...hard to say. Its only my personal opinion but i dont feel its the Lords purpose for us to spend much time on hypothetical things such as that but instead spend our thoughts on being thankful He died our death and seeking His will in our lives. Interesting though..scary but interesting.


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## Israel (Dec 17, 2010)

In some sense I believe those that scorn the Lord's birth (but more importantly, His death for our sakes) will be allowed to taste the wrath from a cup the Lord has drained.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is not something one wants to behold apart from mercy.
Daring God to appear in the rebellious posture of unbelief is an experience God has done everything he possibly can to save us from.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 17, 2010)

Years ago, John Lennon had a big hit song titled “Imagine”. 

In that song he said this: 

Imagine there’s no countries, 
It isn’t hard to do, 
Nothing to kill or die for, 
No religion too, 
Imagine all the people living life in peace...

His insinuation was that if we would get rid of religion, we would all live in peace.
Today much of the world believes Jesus is just another religion.

Absent Jesus, I'm just another Gentile.


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## Israel (Dec 18, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Years ago, John Lennon had a big hit song titled “Imagine”.
> 
> In that song he said this:
> 
> ...



It's interesting you quote Lennon, as he had written another song in which he declared "I don't believe in Jesus, I just believe in me, Yoko and me..."
Yoko was with him when he neared his last earthly view, as the judgment that was awaiting was not delayed. She could do nothing but collapse in total helplessness and terror.
I can hope, and do, actually, that his last breath, or one shortly before it, would have been to call out to the only one who could save him, who had always been waiting to hear his name uttered in complete weakness...and dire need, with _faith_.
I will not be disappointed to not see him there at the gathering by the river, but God knows how delighted I would be if it's been arranged.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 18, 2010)

Israel said:


> It's interesting you quote Lennon, as he had written another song in which he declared "I don't believe in Jesus, I just believe in me, Yoko and me..."
> Yoko was with him when he neared his last earthly view, as the judgment that was awaiting was not delayed. She could do nothing but collapse in total helplessness and terror.
> I can hope, and do, actually, that his last breath, or one shortly before it, would have been to call out to the only one who could save him, who had always been waiting to hear his name uttered in complete weakness...and dire need, with _faith_.
> I will not be disappointed to not see him there at the gathering by the river, but God knows how delighted I would be if it's been arranged.



Careful, your devotion of God is showing.


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## gordon 2 (Dec 18, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> If Jesus had not been born what would be different today?
> In your life, in America, throughout the world.



First off Mary would need our prayers. Second, I could raid whole villages, hunt human beings, boil their skulls as  trophy, display them and brag about it. Very aggressive policing and foreign policy would be my majors at military college. My minor would be waterboarding. I'd dream of paying repectful visit to the Geronimo memorial at the Nation's capital...if there was a capital. My heart would be proudly filled with rancour and the will to vengence for all my ancestors since the roman legions who have been "cleansed or rubbled out" off their lands and have had their property stolen. I would celebrate all the victories of my ancestors for having valiantly rubbed out and fought others of their lands and for my ancestors will to occupy all of creation in the name of my blood line and the God of my people. Life expectancy would be short and medical coverage practically impossible to afford. I'd try to control the production of pipewrenchs and thereby could backrupt even super powers in a week or two by simply invading them with my divisions of good for nothing plumbers at $50 bucks an hour and $75 on the weekends.

On John Lenon. You must not forget that culturally he was a brit. Now if you recall religion has a history in Britian and Ireland... People were killing and maming themselves in Ireland tru out most of Mr. Lenon's life time under the very colourful and boisterous banners of religion. As well the war in Vietnam and  the geopolitics of the cold war, was probably assessed by him as in part a products of religious ideologies. If you recall the beatles tried oriental religions as a perspective in their works. Like good artists they lived what they talked about in their creations.

 Also Mr. Lenon was a artist and  artist don't always have their works say what they believe personally. Matter of fact sometimes it sometimes says the opposite just to mime someone or something else.

Also each person has his own personal spiritual journey combined with their own personal weakness and strenghts. 

But most of all Mr. Lenon was an artist. And as an artist he did indeed consider man and his signs of the cross. It is my view that in this, he was a good man.


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