# Pit Bull in Lowes



## Big Foot (Dec 31, 2015)

Go to check out at Lowes, lady in front of me has Pit Bull not holding even the leash as she signs her CC.  

Made me uncomfortable period.  

Mgr says its illegal for them to question if anyone's dog is a service dog.   What's up with that?   And Pit Bulls usually are NOT service dogs and it had no service dog I'd on the dog itself.   

If I had my Grandson with me - I would of had some choice words for the nitwit bringing a Pit Bull into a retail establishment.


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## T-N-T (Dec 31, 2015)

Any dog can get an online certificate about being a service dog.
Lowes tends to not say much about dogs in the store period.  (I've seen it about 4 or 5 times)

My dog doesn't need a leash if I tell him to stay with me.
Pit bulls don't bother me much.

I also figure if someone brings a dog into public, they trust the dog is chilled out enough for that.  I once parked next to a truck that had 2 pits in the bed once because no one would park next to it at the front.  I g0t out and said god boy, and petted one while a lady looked on in shear horror.

I am not trying argue against you Mr foot.  Just giving another point of view


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## Keebs (Dec 31, 2015)

I have to disagree with you, it isn't the breed, it's the raising...... my ankle biter has caused more trouble than some of my friends pits.... juss sayin.....


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## greg_n_clayton (Dec 31, 2015)

Ain't any pits, but I did see a couple in Walmart yesterday that had 3 dogs with them !!


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## sinclair1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Big Foot said:


> Go to check out at Lowes, lady in front of me has Pit Bull not holding even the leash as she signs her CC.
> 
> Made me uncomfortable period.
> 
> ...


Lowes allows dogs, granted a pit bull scares people, but it's still a dog. 
My wife got cussed out by a guy for having her dog in the cart, he didn't know I was one isle over and didn't care they allow them until I went postal on him for thinking he could abuse a lady he thought was alone. I almost went to jail for cleaning the floor with that guy.


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## T-N-T (Dec 31, 2015)

sinclair1 said:


> Lowes allows dogs, granted a pit bull scares people, but it's still a dog.
> My wife got cussed out by a guy for having her dog in the cart, he didn't know I was one isle over and didn't care they allow them until I went postal on him for thinking he could abuse a lady he thought was alone. I almost went to jail for cleaning the floor with that guy.



Sometimes you just gotta do you.


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## greg_n_clayton (Dec 31, 2015)

sinclair1 said:


> Lowes allows dogs, granted a pit bull scares people, but it's still a dog.
> My wife got cussed out by a guy for having her dog in the cart, he didn't know I was one isle over and didn't care they allow them until I went postal on him for thinking he could abuse a lady he thought was alone. I almost went to jail for cleaning the floor with that guy.



I can tell you one thing Sinclair !!! Somebody gets on the woman of this house other than me, I will go to jail !!


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## Nicodemus (Dec 31, 2015)

sinclair1 said:


> Lowes allows dogs, granted a pit bull scares people, but it's still a dog.
> My wife got cussed out by a guy for having her dog in the cart, he didn't know I was one isle over and didn't care they allow them until I went postal on him for thinking he could abuse a lady he thought was alone. I almost went to jail for cleaning the floor with that guy.




I agree. Be disrespectful to my Lady and I won`t care who you are....


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## PappyHoel (Dec 31, 2015)

Nicodemus said:


> I agree. Be disrespectful to my Lady and I won`t care who you are....



This...


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

Keebs said:


> I have to disagree with you, it isn't the breed, it's the raising...... my ankle biter has caused more trouble than some of my friends pits.... juss sayin.....



Keebs, luv u to defs, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I do not trust pits at all. I know some of them are good dogs, but a few hundred years of breeding for meanness comes out quite often. I have had several friends mauled by them, one in the hospital for six months from an encounter with one of those "sweet, lovable, never has even growled at anybody" house dog pits. Another good friend of mine that I used to have the same exact argument with had to shoot his to get it off his wife after it killed his other dog. It was raised as good as it could possibly have been. 

I think a lot of people don't realize that their pit that acts so sweet and lovable to them in their house may just kill somebody it doesn't know outside. 

I've been cornered by them myself and had to do some creative work with a big stick to keep from getting torn up. These were sweet, lovable household pets that wouldn't hurt a fly from the next street over from my job. They just came up and came after me as soon as they saw me.  

A lot of dogs will bite. The difference is, a pit is big enough to do serious damage, and if it ever decides to attack you, it is usually trying to kill you instead of just bite you and back off. I do not trust them at all, and I do not like them at all. Several kids and other folks killed around here every single year by pits. Lots more probably bitten by Chihuahuas, but a Chihuahua won't send you to the graveyard.


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## sinclair1 (Dec 31, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> Keebs, luv u to defs, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I do not trust pits at all. I know some of them are good dogs, but a few hundred years of breeding for meanness comes out quite often. I have had several friends mauled by them, one in the hospital for six months from an encounter with one of those "sweet, lovable, never has even growled at anybody" house dog pits. Another good friend of mine that I used to have the same exact argument with had to shoot his to get it off his wife after it killed his other dog. It was raised as good as it could possibly have been.
> 
> I think a lot of people don't realize that their pit that acts so sweet and lovable to them in their house may just kill somebody it doesn't know outside.
> 
> ...


They changed the policy since my trouble. They had dogs welcome when that happened, but today,I think it is service dogs only.  I still see them in there regular though.


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## SpotandStalk (Dec 31, 2015)

I had a pit that was a great dog. The only problem is she was dog aggresive. My wife was pregnant with our 1st child and I fLund the dif a new home. I just didn't trust her to be around a child even though she'd never acted aggressively towards a human. 



The worst dog imo is a dadgum chihuahua. I can't stand those jokers. Of course my sister in law and mil have them. Everytime they come to visit they bring them. Makes me wish I still had the pit.


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## Buzz (Dec 31, 2015)

People who don't like pit bulls bring up a lot of the same points people who don't like assault weapons make and sadly they don't even realize it.


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## Da Possum (Dec 31, 2015)

Why is Big Feet scared of a dog??????


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Dec 31, 2015)

Buzz said:


> People who don't like pit bulls bring up a lot of the same points people who don't like assault weapons make and sadly they don't even realize it.



Yeah, but none of my black rifles will attack a stranger, or one of my kids when I'm not looking...


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

That's ignorant, Buzz. Assault weapons don't attack people by themselves. Pits do. I speak from experience, not emotion. Tell that to my friend who spent six months in the hospital or the little girl and the old lady near here who were killed by pits in the last few months. Nobody picked 'em up and pulled the trigger. I've heard all the propaganda before from people who refuse to believe that pit bulls are bred for aggressiveness. One of the folks who argued the most with me was my buddy who shot his pit to keep it from killing his family when it went berserk. He agrees now. I hope you never find out. Lots of folks keep lying to themselves, and people keep dying and getting torn up by the friendly, lovable little fellers.


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## kmckinnie (Dec 31, 2015)

I like pit bulls. Taste like chicken. Lols
They are a intimating breed. I would hate to have to remove a thorn from its paw.


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## kmckinnie (Dec 31, 2015)

The breed has its place. It's not Lowes.


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## sinclair1 (Dec 31, 2015)

kmckinnie said:


> The breed has its place. It's not Lowes.



It's in pro parking where they belong, beside TP


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## fish hawk (Dec 31, 2015)

They make good wild hog catch dogs


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## fish hawk (Dec 31, 2015)

sinclair1 said:


> It's in pro parking where they belong, beside TP



TP has coydogs


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## fish hawk (Dec 31, 2015)

Coydog will bite your face off


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## kmckinnie (Dec 31, 2015)

We had one  its name was Bullet. Lived to 15. Catch a wounded animal in a heart beat.


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## Keebs (Dec 31, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> Keebs, luv u to defs, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I do not trust pits at all. I know some of them are good dogs, but a few hundred years of breeding for meanness comes out quite often. I have had several friends mauled by them, one in the hospital for six months from an encounter with one of those "sweet, lovable, never has even growled at anybody" house dog pits. Another good friend of mine that I used to have the same exact argument with had to shoot his to get it off his wife after it killed his other dog. It was raised as good as it could possibly have been.
> 
> I think a lot of people don't realize that their pit that acts so sweet and lovable to them in their house may just kill somebody it doesn't know outside.
> 
> ...


I bow to your experience......better safe than sorry is the best way to be............ oh and btw, I luvs you too!


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## kmckinnie (Dec 31, 2015)

I tried to catch a coy pup. Nope didn't want to have anything to do with that pup once I woke it up.


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## Crickett (Dec 31, 2015)

A friend of ours has a pit & she is the biggest baby. She is TERRIFIED & I mean TERRIFIED of cats. She runs & hides from them. They like to hide in the bushes & wait for her to come out to the yard to potty & they will pounce on her.


Me personally would never own one though. Too many accidents from that particular breed. I'll stick to labs.


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## ratlird (Dec 31, 2015)

I have a pit and boxer, both females and both are the best dogs we have ever had. Very gentle, love kids and have never shown any aggressiveness towards anyone or any other dog. Just saying.


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## fish hawk (Dec 31, 2015)

kmckinnie said:


> I tried to catch a coy pup. Nope didn't want to have anything to do with that pup once I woke it up.



Heres mine!!!


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## Buzz (Dec 31, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's ignorant, Buzz. Assault weapons don't attack people by themselves. Pits do. I speak from experience, not emotion. Tell that to my friend who spent six months in the hospital or the little girl and the old lady near here who were killed by pits in the last few months. Nobody picked 'em up and pulled the trigger. I've heard all the propaganda before from people who refuse to believe that pit bulls are bred for aggressiveness. One of the folks who argued the most with me was my buddy who shot his pit to keep it from killing his family when it went berserk. He agrees now. I hope you never find out. Lots of folks keep lying to themselves, and people keep dying and getting torn up by the friendly, lovable little fellers.



Assualt rifles and pistols have killed many people in the hands of bad people.  Dogs who weren't raised properly and socialized properly have hurt many people.   VERY few properly raised dogs of any breed hurt people.   Other large breeds hurt people too.    

There are MILLIONS of pits that have lived their lives wihtout hurting a fly, just like 99.8% of gun owners will never commit a crime.   A few don't.  You spoke of ignorance?  Just as I suspected, you're post went a lot further than I even expected to show my point and like I said you don't even realize it.   Because you've seen a FEW that have hurt people the entire breed is bad.  I'm sure there are hundreds of people who would say the same thing about guns "Tell my dead brother, etc. that guns don't kill."

Maybe if you quit hanging around people that are into dog fighting, you'd know less people that have been injured by them.    Of the HUNDREDS I've seen and been around involved around dog rescues , not one has ever seriously inflicted harm on a human.


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## Keebs (Dec 31, 2015)

ratlird said:


> I have a pit and boxer, both females and both are the best dogs we have ever had. Very gentle, love kids and have never shown any aggressiveness towards anyone or any other dog. Just saying.


And your avatar is one of the prettiest boxers I've seen!  Love, Love, LOVE my boxers!!!


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## ryanh487 (Dec 31, 2015)

I rarely worry about a pitbull biting me.  The .380 in my back pocket will bite them between the eyes a lot harder than they can bite me.  They do make me nervous around my dog though, she's little and if one decided to give in to that instinctive animal aggression one could hurt her very badly and very quickly.


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## Fletch_W (Dec 31, 2015)

Buzz said:


> Assualt rifles and pistols have killed many people in the hands of bad people.  Dogs who weren't raised properly and socialized properly have hurt many people.   VERY few properly raised dogs of any breed hurt people.   Other large breeds hurt people too.
> 
> There are MILLIONS of pits that have lived their lives wihtout hurting a fly, just like 99.8% of gun owners will never commit a crime.   A few don't.  You spoke of ignorance?  Just as I suspected, you're post went a lot further than I even expected to show my point and like I said you don't even realize it.   Because you've seen a FEW that have hurt people the entire breed is bad.  I'm sure there are hundreds of people who would say the same thing about guns "Tell my dead brother, etc. that guns don't kill."
> 
> Maybe if you quit hanging around people that are into dog fighting, you'd know less people that have been injured by them.    Of the HUNDREDS I've seen and been around involved around dog rescues , not one has ever seriously inflicted harm on a human.



Not even Cesar Milan allows his pitbull "Buddy" around other potentially aggressive dogs. 

Ask any employee of any vet clinic what the #1 dog attack perpetrator is.... 

Ask any employee of any vet clinic what dogs they use the most precautions for of any patients... 

Is every employee of every vet clinic just ignorant and biased?

Pit Bulls should be outlawed. The breed needs to disappear.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Dec 31, 2015)

Y'all can defend your lovable, cuddly pits all you want.  And you can put all the blame on folks "not raising them right," or whatever.  But over the last 30 years, Pit bulls have attacked more people than all other breeds COMBINED.  So anyone that's nervous about being around a pit has every right to be.


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## model88_308 (Dec 31, 2015)

Having witnessed a Rott jump out of the back of a pickup to attack a Doberman in another truck at a red light, I figured their owners were just as dumb.

Keep your Pit, Rot and Dob away from me and mine and we'll live Just fine together.


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## ryanh487 (Dec 31, 2015)

I will say this: pits are capable of being wonderful dogs.  BUT, just like your lab or pointer has a natural interest in flying things and your beagle has a natural interest in running rabbits, pits were bread to fight and kill other animals.  They can require extensive training to counter this bred in instinct.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

Listen, I'm not saying they're all bad. I know they aren't. But it's not the raising, it's the breeding. I have been around plenty of pits, and no, not a durn one of them was raised by "dog fighters." The one that ripped my friend to shreds was raised in a loving household, was a "big baby," and "wouldn't hurt a fly." Until it went psycho when someone who was invited for supper rang the doorbell, ran between it's owner's legs, and put 350 stitches in my buddy for no reason. Along with massive staph infections and blood loss to the point of transfusion. The owner said he just didn't understand it, it had always been lovable and friendly to everyone.

Or the one near me here that was lovable and raised inside and was a big baby. Until it turned and killed its owner's 2-year-old daughter. 

Or the old lady ripped apart by the one that belonged to her neighbor and jumped the fence and attacked her in her own yard. She's dead now. Dead. I can go on and on.

So, while I don't think all pits are bad, I have had more bad experiences over the years than good ones with them, by far. I have a good scar on my arm from one that belonged to my dad when I was a kid. My crime to set it off was walking through the yard. I will never trust one. Beagles are bred to run rabbits. They do it instinctively. Same with blueticks and coons. Or pointers and birds. Or pitbulls and aggressiveness. It's genetic. 
I won't say any more, because I know it makes pit lovers mad when anyone points out that no, they aren't all sweet and lovable. And the sweet lovable ones sometimes aren't so lovable to the neighbor's kid. I hope that no other pit apologist who denies reality ever has to face what many pit owners have-the fact that little pookie killed someone or maybe your own kid. It ain't worth it.


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## Fletch_W (Dec 31, 2015)

I've never met a pit bull defender that was an educated well-to-do successful happy person. 

They all seem to be ignorant, emotionally unstable, and below-average intelligence. 

Not saying ALL pit bull defenders are like this, just seems like most of them are.


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## sinclair1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Fletch_W said:


> I've never met a pit bull defender that was an educated well-to-do successful happy person.
> 
> They all seem to be ignorant, emotionally unstable, and below-average intelligence.
> 
> Not saying ALL pit bull defenders are like this, just seems like most of them are.



What you smokin Willis


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## Crickett (Dec 31, 2015)

model88_308 said:


> Having witnessed a Rott jump out of the back of a pickup to attack a Doberman in another truck at a red light, I figured their owners were just as dumb.
> 
> Keep your Pit, Rot and Dob away from me and mine and we'll live Just fine together.



About a month or so ago a 57 year old man adopted a rot from an animal shelter. He got it home & it ended up mauling him that same day. 

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/tenn-man-mauled-death-dog-adopted-day-article-1.2438493


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

I love dogs and have been around them and owned them all my life. The only breeds that I don't trust as a whole are pits, rotts, red chows, and Chihuahuas. That selection comes from hard-earned experience. Except it's just annoying and amusing when a Chihuahua attacks you.


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## ryanh487 (Dec 31, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> I love dogs and have been around them and owned them all my life. The only breeds that I don't trust as a whole are pits, rotts, and Chihuahuas. Except it's just annoying and amusing when a Chihuahua attacks you.



i worked at a pet store for 5 years, and the only dog that ever bit me was a chihuahua.  I even had a very anti-social pit that had no business being in public taking treats from my hand on one occasion.


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## Crickett (Dec 31, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> I love dogs and have been around them and owned them all my life. The only breeds that I don't trust as a whole are pits, rotts, red chows, and Chihuahuas. That selection comes from hard-earned experience. Except it's just annoying and amusing when a Chihuahua attacks you.



When me & my hubby 1st started dating, his Mom had a chihuahua. She was the meanest dog I have ever been around. When I would go in the house I would have to sit very still on the couch. She was fine as long as I didn't move or get up. When I would get ready to leave she would be right on my heels biting my ankles alternating from ankle to ankle as I walked. She was a ferocious little thing.


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## Johnny 71 (Dec 31, 2015)

Problem is when they do attack they do a lot of damage fast, and of course the owners say" they have never done this before" I won't let them around my kids, I think the owners are convinced they are safe, but I'm not, just an opinion


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

If Chihuahuas were the size of rotties, there would be no people.


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## T.P. (Dec 31, 2015)

I don't know anyone that has a pit. Thank goodness.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 31, 2015)

Your vicious yotes prolly ate all of 'em, T.P..


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## Keebs (Dec 31, 2015)

I will politely bow out of this argument, but your little dogs ALL have the "Nepolian" complex, if they were bigger, there would do more damage.......... I still say it is all in how they are raised, period....... but to each his own with no hard feelings.............. and as said......
Hillbilly, I look up to, respect & luv you......


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## The mtn man (Dec 31, 2015)

I work for phone company, as y'all can imagine I encounter every kind of dog imaginable, even one of them hairless Chinese rigs. Pits are generally friendly to people, my experience, but I know in the back of my mind that they are bred for one thing, just like a bird dog will point naturally or a blue tick will tree naturally. I know a guy that had the friendliest pit you ever saw until it just out of the blue jumped my very expensive female treeing Walker and killed her almost instantly, he didn't kill his dog at first thinking it was a fluke, until it went on a dog killing rampage killing every dog in the community, of course the dog died somehow from lead poison. My point is any dog that can do that kind of damage that fast stays away from me, not because their aggressive acting, but because of what they are. I compare a pit to a black bear, they are generally dosile until they decide not to be, then it's on!! I have a not so close neighbor that lets his pits roam, they came by my house once and he got one warning, and he knew I wasn't kidding.


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## T-N-T (Dec 31, 2015)

I have a neighbor who has a pit.  He is on number 3 since I have lived here.  I do not trust them.  He keeps them to protect his chickens.  Says they will kill anything that comes in his yard...

Killed the neighbors basset hound that went over to visit one night.

I get my dogs up when I see them roaming.  And will drop one DRT if it acts at all out of the norm in my yard.  I mean DRT right now.

But,  I will still continue to pet them if the tail is a wagging.


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## The mtn man (Jan 1, 2016)

I just think that people that defend pits, really don't understand dogs in general. There will be pits that wont bite a biscuit, pits are bred to catch and kill, "ITS IN THERE DNA" a race horse is bred to race, their wild , spirited and fast, but someone has to harness that, just like dog fighters of the past harnessed the pits aggressiveness. Just like a lab owner harness his dogs desire to retrieve. Now you may buy 10 lab puppies and not work with them and none of them will ever retrieve anything except the food bowl, now there is that 1 out of 10 that will go get anything it sees drop from the heavens and bring it back to his master all own its own, without instruction, without training, just naturally. A pit IMO is the same way, you get 10 pups, treat them like babies, 9 of them might be babies for ever, 1 of them might have that aggressive nature that was bred into them, without warning, without training, that 1 will see a child running to catch a ball or what ever, and that primal switch will flip on, then its no longer Zuess, the sweet ole big headed red nosed pit, Its, a demon straight from the pits of hades killing a child for an unknown reason. Keep your pit away from me.


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## Big Foot (Jan 1, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Y'all can defend your lovable, cuddly pits all you want.  And you can put all the blame on folks "not raising them right," or whatever.  But over the last 30 years, Pit bulls have attacked more people than all other breeds COMBINED.  So anyone that's nervous about being around a pit has every right to be.



^^^^^^^this

+ know several that have been attacked, have a 14 year old girl  that's scared big time on the face for life and barely survived...

+ they are the ugliest dog out there to boot.  I don't get it and won't be around em period.


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## cramer (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't trust them one bit and have seen what the "sweetest doggie in the world" has done to someone close to us.
I even thought the dog was sweet, but always kept an eye on him.
We were not told of the incident for months after the fact - I might still be in jail if we found out when it happened.
Sorry, but it is in their DNA and therefore have no use for them.


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## Big Foot (Jan 1, 2016)

T.P. said:


> I don't know anyone that has a pit. Thank goodness.



an old friend is not an old friend any longer, or shall I say me and mine don't go around their place any longer as they decided owning a Pit was a good idea...

we live by a NO PIT POLICY and do not care one ioda who says anything about that, we won't be the statistic.


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## jigman (Jan 2, 2016)

My brother just got bit by his Pitt two weeks ago. He raised the dog like a child and babies the dog all the time the dog stays in the house when he's home and inside a fenced in yard in the daytime. He really loves the dog and was telling him by the other morning when leaving for work and when he went to raise up the dog jumped at him and he had to have eight stitches in his head just above his right ear. I tried to convince him to get reed of the dog and he stated that he would just keep the dog outside and not let him back in the house and never love on him anymore. Talked to him three days ago and the dog is back in the house. This has me worried. I've told him if the dog jump you once he will do it again.


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## T.P. (Jan 2, 2016)

jigman said:


> My brother just got bit by his Pitt two weeks ago. He raised the dog like a child and babies the dog all the time the dog stays in the house when he's home and inside a fenced in yard in the daytime. He really loves the dog and was telling him by the other morning when leaving for work and when he went to raise up the dog jumped at him and he had to have eight stitches in his head just above his right ear. I tried to convince him to get reed of the dog and he stated that he would just keep the dog outside and not let him back in the house and never love on him anymore. Talked to him three days ago and the dog is back in the house. This has me worried. I've told him if the dog jump you once he will do it again.



That's hardheaded right there.


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## shakey gizzard (Jan 2, 2016)

Free pit puppies! I gots 3 or 4 litters!


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## Big Foot (Jan 2, 2016)

jigman said:


> My brother just got bit by his Pitt two weeks ago. He raised the dog like a child and babies the dog all the time the dog stays in the house when he's home and inside a fenced in yard in the daytime. He really loves the dog and was telling him by the other morning when leaving for work and when he went to raise up the dog jumped at him and he had to have eight stitches in his head just above his right ear. I tried to convince him to get reed of the dog and he stated that he would just keep the dog outside and not let him back in the house and never love on him anymore. Talked to him three days ago and the dog is back in the house. This has me worried. I've told him if the dog jump you once he will do it again.




cmon man, no way he's that __________


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## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

Fletch_W said:


> Not even Cesar Milan allows his pitbull "Buddy" around other potentially aggressive dogs.
> 
> 
> Pit Bulls should be outlawed. The breed needs to disappear.






Fletch_W said:


> I've never met a pit bull defender that was an educated well-to-do successful happy person.
> 
> They all seem to be ignorant, emotionally unstable, and below-average intelligence.
> 
> Not saying ALL pit bull defenders are like this, just seems like most of them are.




Yes, you're so educated that you think Caesar Milan has a pit bull named "Buddy",  when in fact anyone that has ever followed Milan knows it was "Daddy" to be followed by "Junior."   

This site can be comedic gold at times.


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## mrs. hornet22 (Jan 2, 2016)

Wish I woulda seen Pitbull at Lowes. I woulda got his autograph and a pic took with him. He gots some good tunes on the radio.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Yes, you're so educated that you think Caesar Milan has a pit bull named "Buddy",  when in fact anyone that has ever followed Milan knows it was "Daddy" to be followed by "Junior."
> 
> This site can be comedic gold at times.



Stock up on sutures, bandaids and peroxide, brother. I hope you never need them.


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## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Stock up on sutures, bandaids and peroxide, brother. I hope you never need them.



I'm more worried about things that are statistically relevant.   I don't exactly relish the idea of being mauled by a dog but statistically people should be worried about Heart disease, Cancer, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Various Accidents, Stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Diabetes, Influenza and Pneumonia, Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis, etc. 

Heck there are 15 times as many people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation in the US than from dog attacks each year.


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## Crickett (Jan 2, 2016)

mrs. hornet22 said:


> Wish I woulda seen Pitbull at Lowes. I woulda got his autograph and a pic took with him. He gots some good tunes on the radio.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> I'm more worried about things that are statistically relevant.   I don't exactly relish the idea of being mauled by a dog but statistically people should be worried about Heart disease, Cancer, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Various Accidents, Stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Diabetes, Influenza and Pneumonia, Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis, etc.
> 
> Heck there are 15 times as many people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation in the US than from dog attacks each year.



The statistic probability of getting bitten by a pitbull increases proportionally with the amount of time one spends around them.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 2, 2016)

I have been around many Pits years ago when training in Schutzhund. Some, for one reason or another had that kill instinct like you would not see in others. 

I'm somewhat neutral in this debate, but with that being said, I do remember when Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rotts all had the same things said about them.

I will keep a close eye on the instinctive kill inclination/reaction of a Pit though.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> I'm more worried about things that are statistically relevant.   I don't exactly relish the idea of being mauled by a dog but statistically people should be worried about Heart disease, Cancer, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Various Accidents, Stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Diabetes, Influenza and Pneumonia, Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis, etc.
> 
> Heck there are 15 times as many people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation in the US than from dog attacks each year.



Don't bring up reality and relative risk in online discussions. You will be trumped by the airheads who worship "It could happen".


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> I'm more worried about things that are statistically relevant.   I don't exactly relish the idea of being mauled by a dog but statistically people should be worried about Heart disease, Cancer, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Various Accidents, Stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Diabetes, Influenza and Pneumonia, Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis, etc.
> 
> Heck there are 15 times as many people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation in the US than from dog attacks each year.


SOOO, you like statistics?

http://blog.dogsbite.org/2009/07/pit-bulls-lead-bite-counts-across-us.html


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

> In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans



From http://www.multpl.com/united-states-population/



> Jul 1, 2005	295.52 million





> Jul 1, 2014	318.86 million



203 out of over 300 million or so.

Be afraid just after you win the lottery you could be attacked by a Pit Bull!!!!


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> I'm more worried about things that are statistically relevant.   I don't exactly relish the idea of being mauled by a dog but statistically people should be worried about Heart disease, Cancer, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Various Accidents, Stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Diabetes, Influenza and Pneumonia, Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis, etc.
> 
> Heck there are 15 times as many people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation in the US than from dog attacks each year.



Meet Mr Statistic.  

Odds are you are more likely than me to get the raw deal of a Pit.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

How so?


----------



## saltysenior (Jan 2, 2016)

what are the chances that most pit bull owners have insurance that cover their dog's action....notice ,i said '' Most ''


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 2, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> From http://www.multpl.com/united-states-population/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are the odds of being eaten by a grizzly bear, not very good I'm sure, your odds are even less if you stay away from grizzly bears. What are your odds of being killed by a drunk driver? Not real high, do we approve of drunk drivers? I hate using statistics , there's just to many ways to argue a point by using them.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

cklem said:


> SOOO, you like statistics?
> 
> http://blog.dogsbite.org/2009/07/pit-bulls-lead-bite-counts-across-us.html



Always a good thing to investigate your sources before you post...

http://bslnews.org/2012/01/24/the-real-dog-bite-statistics-plus-media-myths-colleen-lynn-exposed/

Again - like I said the hysteria and lack of perception some display when discussing pit bulls, is laughingly similar to what the anti-gun crowd spews when discussing assault rifles and high capacity magazines. 

Still - the point is you guys act like there is a pit bull waiting around the corner to maul you when any SERIOUS dog mauling is a rare occurance.    An average of 34 dog fatalities a year.  Compare that to approx 610,000 people die a year due to heart disease.  How many of you worry that you'll keel over dead at Lowes from your ticker giving out?   Probably not many, even though your odds are astronomically higher.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> How so?



Because, like me, he chooses to make his home/neighborhood a pit-free zone.  We aren't as likely to be attacked if there aren't any pits around.  I'm likely to be attacked by a shark if I don't go swimming in the ocean.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Always a good thing to investigate your sources before you post...
> 
> http://bslnews.org/2012/01/24/the-real-dog-bite-statistics-plus-media-myths-colleen-lynn-exposed/




Well here's one with lots of statistics....

http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdf

Lots of numbers to look at.  A cursory glance told me that pits have attacked more people than all other breeds combined.  Combined!  And that roughly 1 in 10 pit attacks result in death and 6 in 10 result in maiming.  That's why there aren't any pits up here on my hill.


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 2, 2016)

I new of one pit that loved folks....
With ketchup.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

I have swum in the Atlantic, the Pacific and the India oceans. Still haven't been attacked by a shark yet. Not worried about it and will do so when the urge moves me.

I don't model my behavior based on rare incidents, (except to avoid people taking selfies).


----------



## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Well here's one with lots of statistics....
> 
> http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdf
> 
> Lots of numbers to look at.  A cursory glance told me that pits have attacked more people than all other breeds combined.  Combined!  And that roughly 1 in 10 pit attacks result in death and 6 in 10 result in maiming.  That's why there aren't any pits up here on my hill.



So again - in 24 years less people have died in ALL dog attacks years combined than a single year of ruled 'accidental' gun deaths or autoerotic asphyxiation.   Better rid your hill of those pesky guns too and you better not... Err, nevermind.   It's all about making your hill and hood safe right?

How exactly do you make your neighborhood a pit free zone?  Do tell.     Funny, I never even mentioned currently owing a pit,  but the superior comprehension of some have come to that conclusion.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

More sharks are killed by humans, than humans by sharks.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Always a good thing to investigate your sources before you post...
> 
> http://bslnews.org/2012/01/24/the-real-dog-bite-statistics-plus-media-myths-colleen-lynn-exposed/
> 
> ...



The fact of the matter is , none of us are immune to death. I'm not even scared of dying from a pit or even being bitten by a pit, I think the argument is that , for being a dog, pit bulls are very unpredictable, and if they decide to turn from sweet to not so sweet, they can do some serious damage, I don't care if someone has a thousand pit bulls, it's none of my business as long as they stay away from me and mine.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Always a good thing to investigate your sources before you post...
> 
> http://bslnews.org/2012/01/24/the-real-dog-bite-statistics-plus-media-myths-colleen-lynn-exposed/
> 
> ...


What is this hysteria you keep speaking of? Caution learned through direct experience is not hysteria, it is common sense. You can try to downgrade the truth to fit your opinion all you want, but here are some absolute facts: 

I can remember at least 5-6 people in my area being killed by pits in the last decade or so. That includes three little children and one old innocent grandmother. That is not speculation, that is fact. I know personally at least three people who have been severely mauled by pits. One of them almost died and ran up tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills. 

I personally have been cornered by pits twice in my life, and bitten by one once. If I had not had a weapon, I would have been a statistic.  
None of these pit bulls belonged to the people who were killed or maimed, with one exception. One of the little girls was the daughter of the pit owner. These were not trashy dog fighters, either. Most of these were "lovable" household pets that were raised just like any other dog

In the same time period in the same area, I do not know of a single person killed or maimed by any other breed of dog. Yes, I have been bitten by other breeds of dogs. But there is a difference between a bite and a life-threatening attack. 

That is why I am leery of pits. It has nothing to do with hysteria as you call it, it has to do with my experience of encounters with pitbulls and seeing the facts as they are. Pit bulls frequently attack people. And when they attack, the outcome is usually more severe than attacks by other breeds. Would you duck if someone pointed a gun at you? Why? Would that be hysteria, or common sense?  Denying facts does not make them go away. It is a form of reverse hysteria. I am not afraid of pitbulls, but I don't want them around me or my family, and I avoid them when possible. I don't leave loaded guns lying on the floor in a house full of kids for the same reason that I would not keep a pitbull in my house. I am glad that you have never gotten to experience the ugly side of pit nature. I have. When you do, you will see what I mean. They are not like other dogs when they go off.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

So 34 people die in a country of 320 million people a year by dog bite and you happen to know 5-6 of them in the last 10 years?   You've been attacked and bitten by multiple breeds of dogs?   Double oddly bizarre statistical anomaly.  

FWIW - I had a job entering and exiting 200 to 800 yards / houses / buildings  a day for several years years.  Saw hundreds upon hundreds of dogs of all breeds / all types of owners / all types of temperments / care .    I never got bit, some of my coworkers did.   That's not speculation either, it's a fact...

Again - can anyone point out a sentence where I said I own a pit?


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> How exactly do you make your neighborhood a pit free zone?  Do tell.



It might make you squeamish.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> So 34 people die in a country of 320 million people a year by dog bite and you happen to know 5-6 of them in the last 10 years?   You've been attacked and bitten by multiple breeds of dogs?   Double oddly bizarre statistical anomaly.
> 
> FWIW - I had a job entering and exiting 200 to 800 yards / houses / buildings  a day for several years years.  Saw hundreds upon hundreds of dogs of all breeds / all types of owners / all types of temperments / care .    I never got bit, some of my coworkers did.   That's not speculation either, it's a fact...
> 
> Again - can anyone point out a sentence where I said I own a pit?



Nope! You win, pits are cuddly and sweet and wouldn't bite a biscuit. You should get yourself a few of them, they are great pets, especially around small children.


----------



## Hornet22 (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> How exactly do you make your neighborhood a pit free zone?  Do tell.



It's against the rules on Mr. Woody's forum to talk about the process


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 2, 2016)

It's not particularly my own safety that makes me distrust pits so much.  But I have 3 small children, and I've read enough and seen enough examples of small children being mauled by them (a local schoolgirl was maimed by a pair of pits a few years back)  to warrant a certain level of precaution.  

If you want to throw out numbers, I'm sure there are very few people that die from snakebites each year, but I'll dispatch any venomous snake I find around my house to protect my kids.  Few people get killed by lightning, but I don't let my kids play outside during a thunderstorm.  

I'm sure the odds are pretty short of me needing to use a handgun to defend myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm, but I carry one every day for just that precaution.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 2, 2016)

Hornet22 said:


> It's against the rules on Mr. Woody's forum to talk about the process



It's also a felony in this state.  

It's actually Mr. Coffee though, Woody who I had the pleasure of hunting with several times passed away six years ago.


----------



## MariettaDawg (Jan 2, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> Any dog can get an online certificate about being a service dog.
> Lowes tends to not say much about dogs in the store period.  (I've seen it about 4 or 5 times)
> 
> My dog doesn't need a leash if I tell him to stay with me.
> ...





Big Foot said:


> Go to check out at Lowes, lady in front of me has Pit Bull not holding even the leash as she signs her CC.
> 
> Made me uncomfortable period.
> 
> ...



Not many pits,  or other dogs,  that can withstand my M&P should they choose to go after me or my kids. I don't worry about them at all.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 2, 2016)

Blanket statement to everybody. If this turns into dog shooting, the thread disappears.

No discussion on that.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Buzz said:


> So 34 people die in a country of 320 million people a year by dog bite and you happen to know 5-6 of them in the last 10 years?   You've been attacked and bitten by multiple breeds of dogs?   Double oddly bizarre statistical anomaly.
> 
> FWIW - I had a job entering and exiting 200 to 800 yards / houses / buildings  a day for several years years.  Saw hundreds upon hundreds of dogs of all breeds / all types of owners / all types of temperments / care .    I never got bit, some of my coworkers did.   That's not speculation either, it's a fact...
> 
> Again - can anyone point out a sentence where I said I own a pit?



Yes, I am speaking the truth, regardless of what you think. I have nothing to prove to you. If one of those 34 people was your child or family member lying there with their throat ripped out, you might think differently. As you would if you had ever been cornered or bitten by a lovable adorable pit. I have, and I hate them. 

I am done with this. You will keep your head stuck in the sand and believe what you want to. If one was gnawing on your throat you would be petting it and making excuses for it.  I am glad you have never had to encounter folks' mean dogs. I have, unfortunately. Have a nice evening.


----------



## model88_308 (Jan 2, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> It's not particularly my own safety that makes me distrust pits so much.  But I have 3 small children, and I've read enough and seen enough examples of small children being mauled by them (a local schoolgirl was maimed by a pair of pits a few years back)  to warrant a certain level of precaution.
> 
> If you want to throw out numbers, I'm sure there are very few people that die from snakebites each year, but I'll dispatch any venomous snake I find around my house to protect my kids.  Few people get killed by lightning, but I don't let my kids play outside during a thunderstorm.
> 
> I'm sure the odds are pretty short of me needing to use a handgun to defend myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm, but I carry one every day for just that precaution.



THIS ^^^^^ . You said it very well, the way it needs to be said. Thanks.


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## model88_308 (Jan 2, 2016)

I'll say this much about that, I couldn't stay at home all day and enter my own house 800 times a day. You must be sumpthin' Dude!


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## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

Avg 30+ a year is about one every two weeks. Put it on the AP feed and it's reported on every news show and/or blog everywhere and it seems like Pitbulls are tearing people's throats out whenever they step outside in every city. Beware all the Pitbulls on the loose they gonna getya. And the ones at Lowes are extra viscous.


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## king killer delete (Jan 2, 2016)

all dogs can bite you. does not matter the breed.


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## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

One of the most dangerous phrases in the English language -

IT COULD HAPPEN


----------



## lbzdually (Jan 2, 2016)

A neighbors pit has shown up at the house.  She's as sweet as she can be.  However, I can't let my 7 year old son outside by himself because I just don't know if something might set her off.  As soon as I can find another owner for her, she is gone. Her previous owner got her to protect his 'business intertests' I'm sure of it, and I'm not going to risk anyone's safety, no matter how sweet she is.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 2, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> One of the most dangerous phrases in the English language -
> 
> IT COULD HAPPEN



Nothing is impossible!


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Nothing is impossible!



Demonstrate that you can levitate. Then tell me that. 

Or would you prefer old school and show you can turn lead into gold?


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 2, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> Demonstrate that you can levitate. Then tell me that.
> 
> Or would you prefer old school and show you can turn lead into gold?



Explain a nothingness in the Universe, absolutely nothing, no dark matter, another dimension, 100% nothing in existence....

Your turn!


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 2, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Explain a nothingness in the Universe, absolutely nothing, no dark matter, another dimension, 100% nothing in existence....
> 
> Your turn!



Magic!

I can't reveal the secrets of other magi, it's against the guild code.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 2, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> Magic!
> 
> I can't reveal the secrets of other magi, it's against the guild code.




I know the secret!


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 3, 2016)

neighbors teenager on 3rd surgery after being mauled by one pet friendly Pitt Bull - fact!

do what you will with said information, the point in this OP was to ask about dogs and PB in Lowes, most educated people understand some breeds are more aggressive than others - for the record, I will stick with Labs.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 3, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> neighbors teenager on 3rd surgery after being mauled by one pet friendly Pitt Bull - fact!
> 
> do what you will with said information, the point in this OP was to ask about dogs and PB in Lowes, most educated people understand some breeds are more aggressive than others - for the record, I will stick with Labs.



Just lost(passed) the one in my avatar last Wednesday evening.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 3, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> all dogs can bite you. does not matter the breed.



Certainly. But all dog bites are not created equal. Most breeds of dogs will bite in the right situation. But most breeds of dogs won't maul you, and keep mauling until you're dead. A dog that bites and then lets go is different than one that hangs on and keeps ripping.


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 3, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Just lost(passed) the one in my avatar last Wednesday evening.



sorry for your loss, hope you can get the air back in your lungs sooner rather than later and offer a great home to the next one...


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## Jeff C. (Jan 3, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> sorry for your loss, hope you can get the air back in your lungs sooner rather than later and offer a great home to the next one...



Thanks, gonna take a little time.


----------



## T.P. (Jan 3, 2016)

Dang, Jeff C. That's a tough loss right there.


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## Johnny 71 (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry for your loss Jeff C


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 3, 2016)

T.P. said:


> Dang, Jeff C. That's a tough loss right there.



Had a too many recently, T.P.


----------



## KyDawg (Jan 3, 2016)

Dang Jeff, that is to bad. Sorry.


----------



## Fishlipps Revisited (Jan 3, 2016)

NO one knows what goes through a dog's mind, or how they will perceive a situation...or what they will consider a threat.....or, how they will react....and, anyone that thinks they do is fantasizing....

the best thing anyone can do is keep your dog on a leash/under control (there ARE leash laws nearly EVERYWHERE) when outside your property...and hope nothing bad happens ON your property...


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Jan 3, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> neighbors teenager on 3rd surgery after being mauled by one pet friendly Pitt Bull - fact!
> 
> do what you will with said information, the point in this OP was to ask about dogs and PB in Lowes, most educated people understand some breeds are more aggressive than others - for the record, I will stick with Labs.



A lab might drown you with all that slobber, but that is about all.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Jan 3, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Thanks, gonna take a little time.



Sorry Chief... my labs were always the hardest to take when their time was up.

Labs have a way of attaching to you, and you to them.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 3, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Certainly. But all dog bites are not created equal. Most breeds of dogs will bite in the right situation. But most breeds of dogs won't maul you, and keep mauling until you're dead. A dog that bites and then lets go is different than one that hangs on and keeps ripping.



True, I've been dog bit many, many times in my line of work, the worse being by a standard poodle. I had some serious bruising from my ankle to to the back of my knee, I believe if that dog could have it would have killed me, but that breed just don't have the strength, or bite force to bring down a grown man, a pit could do whatever it wanted with me, I wouldn't have a chance, and I'm 215 lbs and 6 ft.


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## fountain (Jan 3, 2016)

yall talkig bout this type?


----------



## fountain (Jan 3, 2016)

how bout one like this?


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes those animals should be put down bec you just never know! We also should ban cars from the road bec you never know when a tire will blow and kill someone! Omg! Ppl who hate on pits or dogs in general are a special kind of dumb.


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## chadf (Jan 3, 2016)

Fear and general outcome/statistics show pits to be aggressive or protective.

Is t that why they were breed. ? 

I wouldn't own one for "doubts" of the blood line around family.


----------



## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Yes those animals should be put down bec you just never know! We also should ban cars from the road bec you never know when a tire will blow and kill someone! Omg! Ppl who hate on pits or dogs in general are a special kind of dumb.



We agree on something....4X4

I will never blame a dog for being a dog regardless what it has done. I will always blame  the owner. Just like I blame the ones who pull the trigger on all them guns that kill and harm folks.


----------



## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

fountain said:


> yall talkig bout this type?





fountain said:


> how bout one like this?




those your dogs/

good looking dogs you got there....


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

fountain said:


> how bout one like this?



Those are handsome dogs for sure.


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> We agree on something....4X4
> 
> I will never blame a dog for being a dog regardless what it has done. I will always blame  the owner. Just like I blame the ones who pull the trigger on all them guns that kill and harm folks.



I won't tell slayer lol. 
Yes a pit is one of the strongest bites and if they got ahold of you it would be bad BUT the person who owns them teaches them raises them has everything to do with how a dog handles other dogs or ppl or children. No dog is born aggressive. Some are born with disorders that make them not take training and sadly have to be put down but that's much like humans some are not all there the majority of us are reasonable humans. Being that I've rescued a dog and currently have 2 I think it's pretty pathetic that in 2016 the supposedly master race can't wrap their head around not every dog is a killer just based on breed.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.


----------



## T.P. (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.



I've had beagles that didn't like the smell of a rabbit. 


I still wouldn't own or be around a pit though.


----------



## Stonewall 2 (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.




Nailed It!


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.



Shows how little you know pits. They were created as a Shepard dog and then bred with terriers for their intelligence to go along with their strength. Some ppl in Europe many many years ago used them to wrangled up bulls which brought on the name pit bulldog. From 1900 to 1980 only one dog attack case made national news that mentioned a pit and the guy intentionally set 26 of em on a woman. They were used as baby sitters in the 1920s and I've personally seen them with a baby and I believe them when they call them nanny dogs. It's simply how they are raised..they were bred to keep livestock in a fence NOT fight regardless of what you say. My two blue heelers were also bred for that same reason they are not killers either.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Shows how little you know pits. They were created as a Shepard dog and then bred with terriers for their intelligence to go along with their strength. Some ppl in Europe many many years ago used them to wrangled up bulls which brought on the name pit bulldog. From 1900 to 1980 only one dog attack case made national news that mentioned a pit and the guy intentionally set 26 of em on a woman. They were used as baby sitters in the 1920s and I've personally seen them with a baby and I believe them when they call them nanny dogs. It's simply how they are raised..they were bred to keep livestock in a fence NOT fight regardless of what you say. My two blue heelers were also bred for that same reason they are not killers either.



Shows how little you know them, then. The first time I got bitten by one for no reason and the two times I've been cornered by them for no reason tells me something. Ask my friend who spent months in the hospital and almost died because of being mauled by his neighbor's "friendly lovable " pit bull what he knows about them. 

These 200 or so dead kids really benefited from the pit bulls' gentle babysitting personality: http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/children-killed-by-pit-bulls.php



This one was probably used as a babysitter at one time, and I can post links just like this all day long and half the day tomorrow: http://www.wlos.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/dog-kills-upstate-woman-owner-not-liable-officials-say-22494.shtml#.Vop75b-rHgo

Notice how it had been a "lovable family pet " for years until it "just snapped for no reason." That is a common thread with these type of dogs. 

Google "pit bull kills/mauls person" and you will get page after page of news stories that are not made up. They happened. Now Google "beagle kills/mauls person" or Springer spaniel kills/mauls person," and see how many hits you got? I wonder why that is? It can't be that pit bulls kill and maul people on a regular basis and most other breeds of dogs don't? I guess it's a conspiracy by the news media and the dead folks. Yep, all breeds of dogs are just alike for sure.


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

You should start a new year not being so closed minded about a specific breed brother. I feel bad for you


----------



## EverGreen1231 (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Shows how little you know them, then. The first time I got bitten by one for no reason and the two times I've been cornered by them for no reason tells me something. Ask my friend who spent months in the hospital and almost died because of being mauled by his neighbor's "friendly lovable " pit bull what he knows about them.
> 
> This one was probably used as a babysitter at one time, and I can post links just like this all day long and half the day tomorrow: http://www.wlos.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/dog-kills-upstate-woman-owner-not-liable-officials-say-22494.shtml#.Vop75b-rHgo
> 
> ...



Prezactly.

I've never met a pit I would consider anywhere near 'lovable'. There's a reason they're used in Dog fights. 

Pit bulls were bread for many reasons. 'Friendly, lovable family pet' was not one of them.


----------



## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Shows how little you know pits. They were created as a Shepard dog and then bred with terriers for their intelligence to go along with their strength. Some ppl in Europe many many years ago used them to wrangled up bulls which brought on the name pit bulldog. From 1900 to 1980 only one dog attack case made national news that mentioned a pit and the guy intentionally set 26 of em on a woman. They were used as baby sitters in the 1920s and I've personally seen them with a baby and I believe them when they call them nanny dogs. It's simply how they are raised..they were bred to keep livestock in a fence NOT fight regardless of what you say. My two blue heelers were also bred for that same reason they are not killers either.



Wow!!!!


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> You should start a new year not being so closed minded about a specific breed brother. I feel bad for you



Again, why can I find page after page of incidents of people being mauled and killed by pits, but very few about other breeds? You are not answering that question. If the definition of "closed-minded" is to hold an opinion that is directly contradictory to the facts and evidence, and refuse to consider any other, then I don't think it's me that's closed-minded. I can think of someone that the descrition fits, though. 

I had an open mind about that breed until I saw enough evidence to convince me otherwise.


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## bulldawgborn (Jan 4, 2016)

One big reason we see so many stories of pitbulls attacking people is because it makes for a "good story".  It's considered more newsworthy by the MSM when a pitbull bites someone than when a fatal attack happens at the mouth of another breed.  And then there's the pesky problem of breed identification.  Pitbull is not an accepted breed by most organizations, but everybody and their brother is apparently an expert when it comes to identifying the breed.  All you need is a square head and big mouth.  Throw in some cropped ears, and it's a deadly pitbull fo sho...


----------



## mtr3333 (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's ignorant, Buzz. Assault weapons don't attack people by themselves. Pits do. I speak from experience, not emotion. Tell that to my friend who spent six months in the hospital or the little girl and the old lady near here who were killed by pits in the last few months. Nobody picked 'em up and pulled the trigger. I've heard all the propaganda before from people who refuse to believe that pit bulls are bred for aggressiveness. One of the folks who argued the most with me was my buddy who shot his pit to keep it from killing his family when it went berserk. He agrees now. I hope you never find out. Lots of folks keep lying to themselves, and people keep dying and getting torn up by the friendly, lovable little fellers.


Good point NC. But, aggressive behavior is usually learned from the training to its bred potential. Some very well mannered animals were bred for a purpose they never realized.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> One big reason we see so many stories of pitbulls attacking people is because it makes for a "good story".  It's considered more newsworthy by the MSM when a pitbull bites someone than when a fatal attack happens at the mouth of another breed.  And then there's the pesky problem of breed identification.  Pitbull is not an accepted breed by most organizations, but everybody and their brother is apparently an expert when it comes to identifying the breed.  All you need is a square head and big mouth.  Throw in some cropped ears, and it's a deadly pitbull fo sho...



Yes, it is a conspiracy for sure. They never bite or kill anybody, it's all made up. All the dead, mauled people might disagree, though. Again, why are there no news stories of people fatally attacked by yorkshire terriers?


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

mtr3333 said:


> Good point NC. But, aggressive behavior is usually learned from the training to its bred potential. Some very well mannered animals were bred for a purpose they never realized.



People certainly seem to be a lot more successful at "training" pits to bite and maul than they are at training basset hounds to. Couldn't be anything to do with the breed, though.


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.



let the owners own the pits, let THEM take their chances.........you nailed it with above


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Ppl would be just as successful at training a heeler dog or German shepherd or any other type of farming dog. Those dog have aggression towards their prey which as bred are livestock. Now you get a few thugs throwing them into a cage together then they are turned aggressive towards other dogs. The Bulldogs just look more manly and the part of an aggressive animal so that's the one the thugs turn to in their sport. 
It's part of an agenda against the breed. 
Many of the Vick pits were able to be rescued and adopted out. One wouldn't think a dog bred to kill would be able to transition from killing other dogs to lovely family pets huh. Oh they did bec they are not bred to kill..Vick and his boys turned them into killers. Once shown love and caring they went back to their breed behavior..which is surprisingly calm and docile considering they look mean.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

Unfortunately, statistics don't lie. 

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2014.php


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## bulldawgborn (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Yes, it is a conspiracy for sure. They never bite or kill anybody, it's all made up. All the dead, mauled people might disagree, though. Again, why are there no news stories of people fatally attacked by yorkshire terriers?



I'm sure the 2 year old attacked by her mom's pomeranian would have liked more than 3 stories reported on her death.  People like reading about deadly pitbulls.  Blood thirsty yorkies?  Not so much.  

I never said pitbulls have never bitten or killed anybody.  I merely pointed out that our well qualified media often reports ONLY want they WANT to.  I'm by no means the end all, be all, expert that some people on this forum are, but one thing I have noticed is the media in this country loves a good witch hunt.

Yes, I own a "pit bull".  No, he has never shown any aggression towards anybody.  No, I will still not let him babysit for me.  All dogs are like kids, they do much better with proper instruction, discipline, and SUPERVISION.


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Unfortunately, statistics don't lie.
> 
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2014.php



While I'll agree a lot of the fatal attacks are from pits it's not from pits who've been in a loving family home from when they were puppies. I'd wager if they did a study 95% of the dogs in these attacks are street dogs and/or raised to fight.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> While I'll agree a lot of the fatal attacks are from pits it's not from pits who've been in a loving family home from when they were puppies. I'd wager if they did a study 95% of the dogs in these attacks are street dogs and/or raised to fight.



No offense, but there's the photos and story of each of the deaths related to the attack. Read it.


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## EverGreen1231 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Ppl would be just as successful at training a heeler dog or German shepherd or any other type of farming dog. Those dog have aggression towards their prey which as bred are livestock. Now you get a few thugs throwing them into a cage together then they are turned aggressive towards other dogs. The Bulldogs just look more manly and the part of an aggressive animal so that's the one the thugs turn to in their sport.
> It's part of an agenda against the breed.
> Many of the Vick pits were able to be rescued and adopted out. One wouldn't think a dog bred to kill would be able to transition from killing other dogs to lovely family pets huh. Oh they did bec they are not bred to kill..Vick and his boys turned them into killers. Once shown love and caring they went back to their breed behavior..which is surprisingly calm and docile considering they look mean.



A Man-killing Beagle? I don't think so. Pitbulls are aggressive. German Shepherds are aggressive too, though to a lesser extent. The whole nurture trumps nature argument has never held water with me. 

IMO, if you adopt a pitbull, especially one that has been taught to utilize its already aggressive disposition, you're some kind of insane.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

I don't spend my life quaking about every calamity that could happen. By the numbers I am in more danger or being involved in a car accident. I still drive, carefully, but I still drive.

It must be hard to live a relatively normal life being afraid of all the  possible things that "COULD" happen.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Yes it sounds to me like hillbilly should go lock himself in the basement cause the big bad pits of the world might get him! I saw a pack of 15 this morning on the way to work! They are taking over this area. 
I work in rescue and we deal with ppl like some of y'all all day. Close minded judgmental dummies. 
That's it for me on here before I say things that'll get me banned. Cheers!


----------



## bulldawgborn (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Unfortunately, statistics don't lie.
> 
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2014.php



Statistics might not lie, but they can sure be manipulated in multiple ways.  The website you just cited happens to be one of the more anti-pit biased websites in existence.  A quick perusal of the site shows they definitely have an agenda and are not simply reporting facts.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> One big reason we see so many stories of pitbulls attacking people is because it makes for a "good story".  It's considered more newsworthy by the MSM when a pitbull bites someone than when a fatal attack happens at the mouth of another breed.  And then there's the pesky problem of breed identification.  Pitbull is not an accepted breed by most organizations, but everybody and their brother is apparently an expert when it comes to identifying the breed.  All you need is a square head and big mouth.  Throw in some cropped ears, and it's a deadly pitbull fo sho...




That is one of the things brought in this article 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steff...edCensoredCensored-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html



> What is a Pit Bull?: It is commonly accepted that "pit bull" is not a breed but a loosely defined and general category. Definition of this category varies depending upon the source. Any blocky headed dog, or any mix of breeds that is between 35 and 100 pounds and upwards of 30 individual dog breeds may currently fall in this broad category through the use of visual breed identification.




You honestly think the news media waits to see a proper breed identification of a dog?   Yeah right.   

Of course the American Temperament Society tests thousands and thousands of dogs and the American Pit Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Terriers finish with a 86.8% and 84.5% passing rate, about mid pack in terms of breeds.  Compare that to breeds not really known to be biters like German Shorthaired Pointers (77.1%)  and Golden Retrievers (85.8%).  I don't think anyone has ever said they haven't bit and they haven't hurt. However, to see a Pit Bull at Lowes and get uneasy because you think it could maul you or someone else is pushing the edge of paranoia.



bulldawgborn said:


> The website you just cited happens to be one of the more anti-pit biased websites in existence.  A quick perusal of the site shows they definitely have an agenda and are not simply reporting facts.



Dogbite.org is a known activist web site started by a person who doesn't like pit bulls.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> let the owners own the pits, let THEM take their chances.........you nailed it with above



The problem isn't me owning one-the problem is when someone who refuses to believe that their pitbull would ever hurt anybody moves in next door to me. 



bulldawgborn said:


> I'm sure the 2 year old attacked by her mom's pomeranian would have liked more than 3 stories reported on her death.  People like reading about deadly pitbulls.  Blood thirsty yorkies?  Not so much.
> 
> I never said pitbulls have never bitten or killed anybody.  I merely pointed out that our well qualified media often reports ONLY want they WANT to.  I'm by no means the end all, be all, expert that some people on this forum are, but one thing I have noticed is the media in this country loves a good witch hunt.
> 
> Yes, I own a "pit bull".  No, he has never shown any aggression towards anybody.  No, I will still not let him babysit for me.  All dogs are like kids, they do much better with proper instruction, discipline, and SUPERVISION.



If you look at the statistics compiled in the link Chief posted, only 6% of dogs in America are pit bulls. However, 64% of fatal dog attacks last year were pit bulls. And it holds true year after year. And if maulings were included instead of just fatalities, it would look even worse for them. 

How is that a "witch hunt?" Those are the facts. The only other breed that consistently figures prominently in fatal dog attacks percentage-wise is the rottweiler. It's not an agenda. It's the way it is.

And if you look at the link I posted above, the pit that killed its owner's daughter and put the owner in the hospital having surgery had never shown any aggressive behavior toward people in almost ten years that it had been living in the house as a beloved family pet. Michael Vick dod not live with them, but for some unknown reason, the dog suddenly snapped and killed. That was the same scenario with the one that put my friend in the hospital. I hope yours never does.


----------



## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Yes it sounds to me like hillbilly should go lock himself in the basement cause the big bad pits of the world might get him! I saw a pack of 15 this morning on the way to work! They are taking over this area.
> I work in rescue and we deal with ppl like some of y'all all day. Close minded judgmental dummies.
> *That's it for me on here before I say things that'll get me banned*. Cheers!



You should be more worried about the things you say that make you look silly.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> You should be more worried about the things you say that make you look silly.



Most people on here should be more worried about pushing away from the table instead of seeing a Pit Bull at Lowes.   Judging from a lot of the pictures of our Woody's group here - Heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes are going to be the cause of a lot of us to have an early demise.  Pit bulls - not so much.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

Whatevers. As per my previous statement about closed-mindedness being a refusal to even listen to facts, it still applies. If you want to play with pitbulls, and it makes you feel manly to own one, do so by all means, just keep yours away from me and my family, because I don't trust it. I certainly don't live in fear of pit bulls, but I do understand that they are the most aggressive breed of dog I am likely to encounter, so I avoid them. 

I also don't handle rattlesnakes, stick my hands into hornet nests, give snapping turtles to my kids to play with, wrestle bears, stand outside in thunderstorms holding a piece of rebar up in the air, or keep copperheads running loose in my house. I guess that is all part of being a close-minded judgmental dummy, too?


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> You should be more worried about the things you say that make you look silly.



I've only posted what the breed was actually created to do that's not fight and kill. As others have came along and said they are not aggressive or killers..they are manipulated to be that way.


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## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Most people on here should be more worried about pushing away from the table instead of seeing a Pit Bull at Lowes.   Judging from a lot of the pictures of our Woody's group here - Heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes are going to be the cause of a lot of us to have an early demise.  Pit bulls - not so much.



What you sayin?You challenging me to a foot race?Cause if you are then it's game on!!!!


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Most people on here should be more worried about pushing away from the table instead of seeing a Pit Bull at Lowes.   Judging from a lot of the pictures of our Woody's group here - Heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes are going to be the cause of a lot of us to have an early demise.  Pit bulls - not so much.



I agree with this. I'm still not gonna run up to one and pet it.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> What you sayin?You challenging me to a foot race?Cause if you are then it's game on!!!!



I'm not very fast.   

Now give me a mountain bike and I can hold my own


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Most people on here should be more worried about pushing away from the table instead of seeing a Pit Bull at Lowes.   Judging from a lot of the pictures of our Woody's group here - Heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes are going to be the cause of a lot of us to have an early demise.  Pit bulls - not so much.



Haha I work out and am a lean 160lbs with excellent blood work so I'm good there too! And I'll gladly try and rescue any pit or any dog for that matter. Non of them scare me enough to judge them and let them die.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I agree with this. I'm still not gonna run up to one and pet it.


----------



## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> I'm not very fast.
> 
> Now give me a mountain bike and I can hold my own



Oh no.........I don't do bikes.


----------



## Jeff Phillips (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> The problem isn't me owning one-the problem is when someone who refuses to believe that their pitbull would ever hurt anybody moves in next door to me.



Agree 100%!

Would all of the pit supporters get behind legislation to charge the owners of dangerous dogs with felony assault with a deadly weapon when their dogs attack someone? Let's say 25 to 40 years in prison for a first offense? 

I have been around pits my whole life and I never met one I would trust. They have a place, but family pet ain't that place!


----------



## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

...there is some real stupid going in this thread.


a lot folks sure do sound like they are a Dem in waiting 
with the logic being spelled out in this thread.

sounds like some sure enough gun control ...ooops dog control going on.



.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff Phillips said:


> Agree 100%!
> 
> Would all of the pit supporters get behind legislation to charge the owners of dangerous dogs with felony assault with a deadly weapon when their dogs attack someone? Let's say 25 to 40 years in prison for a first offense?
> 
> I have been around pits my whole life and I never met one I would trust. They have a place, but family pet ain't that place!



Yes I would! I think those type of owners and the ones who fight them should be put under the jail!


----------



## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> ...there is some real stupid going in this thread.
> 
> 
> a lot folks sure do sound like they are a Dem in waiting
> ...



That's exactly what I said early on and I also said the funny part is they don't even realize it.  Thank you for at least being one other person that sees it!


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> ...there is some real stupid going in this thread.
> 
> 
> a lot folks sure do sound like they are a Dem in waiting
> ...



I was gonna ask hillbilly if he had a gun in his house. I mean they were made for a specific reason and that's to kill. Just like a pit as he sees it.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

When I was MUCH younger the scary dogs of the week were Dobermans. The reports were about them eating a little old lady who fell and was unable to feed them. All the weak minded claimed THEY knew the old lady (she lived near them). It was bunk then and it is now.

BTW I also lived thru the German Shepard and Rottweiler urban legends.


----------



## bulldawgborn (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff Phillips said:


> Agree 100%!
> 
> Would all of the pit supporters get behind legislation to charge the owners of dangerous dogs with felony assault with a deadly weapon when their dogs attack someone? Let's say 25 to 40 years in prison for a first offense?
> 
> I have been around pits my whole life and I never met one I would trust. They have a place, but family pet ain't that place!



I would support that legislation, but I would change the wording to "charge the owners of any dogs with felony assault with a deadly weapon when their dogs attack someone".  Too much gray area when we say "dangerous dogs".  

I had a cousin who used to own 2 very dangerous (albeit very friendly looking) labs.  He finally had to put them down after they ran his wife and newborn son up on top of her car one afternoon.  This was after they bit several people.  They were never "dangerous" enough until it was his wife and son in jeopardy.


----------



## 660griz (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Just lost(passed) the one in my avatar last Wednesday evening.



Really sorry for that man. Unfortunately, I know the feeling. Swore I would never get another dog. Well, I got two. One is a black lab/rott mix that I am really going to miss.


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## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

Wow, it seems all dog breeds are capable of being man killers, I better watch out for Daisey my wife's Maltese. Would you guys believe she lets that vicious beast sleep between us.


----------



## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> Wow, it seems all dog breeds are capable of being man killers, *I better watch out for Daisey my wife's Maltese*. Would you guys believe she lets that vicious beast sleep between us.



Your wife has a pet falcon?


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> Wow, it seems all dog breeds are capable of being man killers or at least scare the weak mnded into hissy fits, I better watch out for Daisey my wife's Maltese you never know what training it's received when you aren't looking. Would you guys believe she lets that vicious beast sleep between us. plot of the latest movie of the week



It could happen.


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## GoldDot40 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> if he had a gun in his house. I mean they were made for a specific reason and that's to kill.


Well I'm embarrassed. I have a whole bunch of guns that I've been using the wrong way all this time. I've never used mine to kill anybody. They are a paper target's worst nightmare though...


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> Well I'm embarrassed. I have a whole bunch of guns that I've been using the wrong way all this time. I've never used mine to kill anybody. They are a paper target's worst nightmare though...



Don't spin it! Guns were made to kill humans not paper targets. And as nchillbilly is saying pitbulls were also made to kill humans. You shouldn't be allowed to own one or take one in a store with you..funny he don't hold the same thought on guns.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> Statistics might not lie, but they can sure be manipulated in multiple ways.  The website you just cited happens to be one of the more anti-pit biased websites in existence.  A quick perusal of the site shows they definitely have an agenda and are not simply reporting facts.



I agree with you, I thought about that after I had posted it.

My bad....I should've researched the .org before relying on it for a source without an agenda. I still haven't looked into them very deeply, but like I said, it did concern me right after posting it. I know they exist.

With that being said, I did see other sites that related approximately the same statistics with pitbulls and dbrf's in the past 10 yrs.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> I would support that legislation, but I would change the wording to "charge the owners of any dogs with felony assault with a deadly weapon when their dogs attack someone".  Too much gray area when we say "dangerous dogs".
> 
> I had a cousin who used to own 2 very dangerous (albeit very friendly looking) labs.  He finally had to put them down after they ran his wife and newborn son up on top of her car one afternoon.  This was after they bit several people.  They were never "dangerous" enough until it was his wife and son in jeopardy.



Yep.....there's no doubt that Labs are well known as a very vicious breed.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> When I was MUCH younger the scary dogs of the week were Dobermans. The reports were about them eating a little old lady who fell and was unable to feed them. All the weak minded claimed THEY knew the old lady (she lived near them). It was bunk then and it is now.
> 
> BTW I also lived thru the German Shepard and Rottweiler urban legends.



I'm glad I'm not the ONLY one here old enough to remember all of that!


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## GoldDot40 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Don't spin it! Guns were made to kill humans not paper targets. And as nchillbilly is saying pitbulls were also made to kill humans. You shouldn't be allowed to own one or take one in a store with you..funny he don't hold the same thought on guns.



How bout YOU don't spin it. Comparing an animal (a living organism) to an inanimate object is absolutely idiotic.

I've told the story before. My in-laws have always had pits. These dogs have a better upbringing that most kids. They're spoiled and have (IMO) fairly obedient training. If these dogs could speak, 'yes sir and no sir' would probably be in their vocabulary. My in-laws also used to babysit my oldest daughter...and had never had an issue.

I pull into the yard to pick her up one day after work. She's standing on the porch with my sister-in-law while one of the dogs is in the yard doing it's business. My little girl runs towards me when I get out of the car. The dog gives chase. I was able to pick up my daughter just as the dog caught her foot...pulling just the shoe off. I toss her on the roof of the car and the dog is literally climbing the side of the car trying to get to her. The rest can't be talked about here.

I've always invited ALL these people who own pits, know their history, know their breed, and can 'read their minds'....to EXPLAIN to me why this dog 'snapped' on my daughter for no apparent reason and certainly unprovoked. I extend the invitation to you. Blame the loving owners all you wish.

I'm thankful that my daughter (now 11 years old) was young enough that she doesn't remember it now.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

One site posting a lie is just that one site. 10,000 sites posting the same lie is still site posting the lie. 9,999 more sites don't make the lie true.

The broadcast Network ABC broadcasting a lie is par for the course, still a lie and still not any more true because it's repeated every hour.

One out of ten presents odds you might bet on. One out of 10,000 is rare enough to pass on that bet.


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> How bout YOU don't spin it. Comparing an animal (a living organism) to an inanimate object is absolutely idiotic.
> 
> I've told the story before. My in-laws have always had pits. These dogs have a better upbringing that most kids. They're spoiled and have (IMO) fairly obedient training. If these dogs could speak, 'yes sir and no sir' would probably be in their vocabulary. My in-laws also used to babysit my oldest daughter...and had never had an issue.
> 
> ...



They have a brain much like me and you that at any point can change and completely change every way in which they live and interact with anyone. The problem ppl have with them is that they are large and intimidating. Any dog can change with a flip of a switch ive seen it personally many times. Can grow up with another dog from a puppy and eat out of the same bowl to aggressively attacking it to a point it has to be put down for the others safety. I don't hold things we cant change against an animal. I feel bad for pitties bec their looks kill them 95% of the time.


----------



## DDD (Jan 4, 2016)

Here this whole time I thought you saw this guy at Lowes.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> One site posting a lie is just that one site. 10,000 sites posting the same lie is still site posting the lie. 9,999 more sites don't make the lie true.
> 
> The broadcast Network ABC broadcasting a lie is par for the course, still a lie and still not any more true because it's repeated every hour.
> 
> One out of ten presents odds you might bet on. One out of 10,000 is rare enough to pass on that bet.



When somebody goes into a hole in the ground with dirt and flowers on top, and you see it, I guess that's a lie and part of the conspiracy, too. Or when you see someone you know well covered with scars and stitches with drain tubes sticking out of him, he's lying too? I guess that was really Pekingese dogs that attacked them, because pits are all sweet and lovable, and to say differently is to be a liar. 

So, to recap: if I turn on the news and it says somebody in my town was killed in a car wreck, it's true. But if it says somebody was killed in my town by a pitbull, it's a lie, and the person is still alive, and it's all a conspiracy? ooooookkkkkkkkkk, I get it. I done here.


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## Hornet22 (Jan 4, 2016)

mrs. hornet22 said:


> Wish I woulda seen Pitbull at Lowes. I woulda got his autograph and a pic took with him. He gots some good tunes on the radio.





DDD said:


> Here this whole time I thought you saw this guy at Lowes.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Yep.....there's no doubt that Labs are well known as a very vicious breed.



Funny fact though - someone mentioned Caesar Milan earlier.  Like him or dislike him, he's worked with a LOT of dogs.  Anyone care to wager what breed of dog gave him his worst bite?   

I was a meter reader for some years in the 90s.   Saw all kinds of dogs as I went in and out of people's yards all day long for 5 days a week.  Dogs aren't too keen on people coming into the back yard to look at a meter.    I never got bit but had a Boxer jump a fence and come across 5 yards to get to me.  He had the misfortune of getting an attitude adjustment with a walking stick that I carried with me.   I had a English Setter off all things give me my closest call.   I've never before or never again seen an aggressive Irish Setter but that one was not nice.   

Saw hundreds of pits, some dobermans, and some German Shepherds.   Never had a problem with the Pits or Dobermans but some people got their meter readings guessed with a couple of Shepherds that needed to be living on a farm away from people.  The worst dog bite we had among our group was a collie of all things and that led the guy to having the nickname 'Lassie."


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

As I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm somewhat neutral in this debate. That being due to the fact that if any here are old enough to remember like NOYDB and myself, the German Shepherd, Doberman, and The Rottweiler breeds all went through this same kind of thinking at one time.

I personally believe it is based on the popularity of the breed and the fact that 100's of thousands of them come to being in our society because of it in a rather short period of time. 

With that being said, I would still put these breeds at the top of the list for dbrf's due to their size and power of their jaw pressure and their protective and territorial instincts. 

Not knocking any of these breeds, but it's obvious why they are used for police work and protection, along with a few other select breeds.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> I'm glad I'm not the ONLY one here old enough to remember all of that!



I remember the Doberman scare so well because at the time there was one at the house next door that I saw everyday. A neighbor cat lady told me all about why I shouldn't play in the yard as I could get eaten (I didn't). During that time they were popularized as guard dogs and had starring roles as such in movies. The Original news story didn't occur in the town where I lived but the cat lady swore she knew the victim.

My sister breeds champion Rotts. Despite their bad press I wouldn't hesitate to own one.


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## mtr3333 (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> People certainly seem to be a lot more successful at "training" pits to bite and maul than they are at training basset hounds to. Couldn't be anything to do with the breed, though.



That's true... but within the same breed you can train more aggressive behavior.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Funny fact though - someone mentioned Caesar Milan earlier.  Like him or dislike him, he's worked with a LOT of dogs.  Anyone care to wager what breed of dog gave him his worst bite?
> 
> I was a meter reader for some years in the 90s.   Saw all kinds of dogs as I went in and out of people's yards all day long for 5 days a week.  Dogs aren't too keen on people coming into the back yard to look at a meter.    I never got bit but had a Boxer jump a fence and come across 5 yards to get to me.  He had the misfortune of getting an attitude adjustment with a walking stick that I carried with me.   I had a English Setter off all things give me my closest call.   I've never before or never again seen an aggressive Irish Setter but that one was not nice.
> 
> Saw hundreds of pits, some dobermans, and some German Shepherds.   Never had a problem with the Pits or Dobermans but some people got their meter readings guessed with a couple of Shepherds that needed to be living on a farm away from people.  The worst dog bite we had among our group was a collie of all things and that led the guy to having the nickname 'Lassie."



A freaking Pekingese got me in the thigh when I was kid climbing a tree. I literally had to knock it off my thigh as it sank it's teeth into me and was hanging two feet off the ground. I underestimated how high that short legged monster could jump.


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## j_seph (Jan 4, 2016)

How does one breed meanness into a breed? Does each dog not have its own brain. Just as us humans, how our brain is trained in thoughts from a baby/puppy, does that not dictate the kind of person we will be?


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## EverGreen1231 (Jan 4, 2016)

Buzz said:


> Most people on here should be more worried about pushing away from the table instead of seeing a Pit Bull at Lowes.   Judging from a lot of the pictures of our Woody's group here - Heart disease, cancer, stroke, and diabetes are going to be the cause of a lot of us to have an early demise.  Pit bulls - not so much.



Already did that. The dogs are next .


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## mtr3333 (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> A freaking Pekingese got me in the thigh when I was kid climbing a tree. I literally had to knock it off my thigh as it sank it's teeth into me and was hanging two feet off the ground. I underestimated how high that short legged monster could jump.


good thing it missed. it wasn't aiming for thigh. I can attest to that.


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## ryanh487 (Jan 4, 2016)

j_seph said:


> How does one breed meanness into a breed? Does each dog not have its own brain. Just as us humans, how our brain is trained in thoughts from a baby/puppy, does that not dictate the kind of person we will be?



It's not about meanness, it's about instinct.  A purebred spaniel will be a natural pointer, a purebred lab will be a natural retriever, a purebred beagle will naturally chase rabbits to canada and back if you let them.  The pitbull breed was bred to kill other animals and fight.  It can be the sweetest dog in the world to its owner/family, even animals it was raised with, but that doesn't mean it's not a natural threat to other animals and small children that could be mistaken for animals, or that their protective and territorial instinct won't kick in for someone they consider a stranger.  It takes proper training, and a lot of it, to make sure they will not be a problem.  And 99% of pitbull owners don't have the time, energy, experience, or interest to accomplish that. And half of them WANT their dog to be mean because it's "cool".  It ain't the dog's fault, it's just how it is.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

j_seph said:


> How does one breed meanness into a breed? Does each dog not have its own brain. Just as us humans, how our brain is trained in thoughts from a baby/puppy, does that not dictate the kind of person we will be?



That's what im screaming! They aren't born killers. Someone forces them to be aggressive towards ppl or other dogs by not socializing them as pups or flat out doing it bec they are bigger stringer faster than most other dogs so they use them as intimidation. Like I said earlier though yes their brains change in an instant and they can snap same for a rotty or gs or Maltese or any. 

I think the problem with a lot of ppl is they don't see dogs having brains with reason and really similar to humans. They can process voice and even the emotion in your voice. They are extremely smart. A lot of ppl see them as just dogs but they are not just dogs they can be brought up just like a kid to act a certain way.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> When somebody goes into a hole in the ground with dirt and flowers on top, and you see it, I guess that's a lie and part of the conspiracy, too. Or when you see someone you know well covered with scars and stitches with drain tubes sticking out of him, he's lying too? I guess that was really Pekingese dogs that attacked them, because pits are all sweet and lovable, and to say differently is to be a liar.
> 
> So, to recap: if I turn on the news and it says somebody in my town was killed in a car wreck, it's true. But if it says somebody was killed in my town by a pitbull, it's a lie, and the person is still alive, and it's all a conspiracy? ooooookkkkkkkkkk, I get it. I done here.



Nope, not a lie from you. But if bunky in Seattle reads about the incident near you and swears it happened to him. It's a lie.

The basis of 99.7% of stories on facebook and twitter.

Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, 

It's all about me. 

Of course I saw it.
I remember what happened, I heard the crash and looked up and saw the accident as it happened.

We get in cars on a daily basis and survive, mostly. But even tough we know of accidents and know people that have been in accidents, we still drive our cars. We are all more likely to get in car accidents then ever get bit by a big dog. But we should be afraid of big dogs, we all know being bitten by a dog is so much more horrible than being crushed in a car.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

ryanh487 said:


> It's not about meanness, it's about instinct.  A purebred spaniel will be a natural pointer, a purebred lab will be a natural retriever, a purebred beagle will naturally chase rabbits to canada and back if you let them.  The pitbull breed was bred to kill other animals and fight.  It can be the sweetest dog in the world to its owner/family, even animals it was raised with, but that doesn't mean it's not a natural threat to other animals and small children that could be mistaken for animals, or that their protective and territorial instinct won't kick in for someone they consider a stranger.  It takes proper training, and a lot of it, to make sure they will not be a problem.  And 99% of pitbull owners don't have the time, energy, experience, or interest to accomplish that. And half of them WANT their dog to be mean because it's "cool".  It ain't the dog's fault, it's just how it is.



When you actually read up on why/how they were created back in the olden days and stop spewing lies we can have a discussion. Till then you and ppl like you are the reason they have a bad name. 

They were originally bred to do bull baiting (when a dog grabs a bull by the nose and doesn't let go so that the person castrating a bull doesn't get gored). 

PEOPLE made them get into a pit with said bull and fight for sport much like dog fighting! Which in turn they called them pit bulls.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

mtr3333 said:


> good thing it missed. it wasn't aiming for thigh. I can attest to that.


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## mrs. hornet22 (Jan 4, 2016)

DDD said:


> Here this whole time I thought you saw this guy at Lowes.


Me too.


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## bulldawgborn (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Yep.....there's no doubt that Labs are well known as a very vicious breed.



I was raised around Labs and can attest to the fact that they are generally one of the best family pets to be had.  I am sorry to hear of your loss.  The bond between a man and his dog is special to say the least.  They can pretty much read our minds...can't say that for most of our other friends.  

My post was not a dig at Labs, but it was 100% factual.  I don't know why those 2 particular Labs were so mean.  I know it wasn't bred in them, but  they would bite anything that even thought about stepping foot in that yard.  When they decided to bite something, you couldn't just throw a dead duck and change their mind.


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## DDD (Jan 4, 2016)

Found him.


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## mrs. hornet22 (Jan 4, 2016)

Triple D said That sure is a purdy dog. Mind if I take his picture.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Meanwhile hillbilly and a few others ran to their car shaking so bad they couldn't hold the phone to call 911!


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> I was raised around Labs and can attest to the fact that they are generally one of the best family pets to be had.  I am sorry to hear of your loss.  The bond between a man and his dog is special to say the least.  They can pretty much read our minds...can't say that for most of our other friends.
> 
> My post was not a dig at Labs, but it was 100% factual.  I don't know why those 2 particular Labs were so mean.  I know it wasn't bred in them, but  they would bite anything that even thought about stepping foot in that yard.  When they decided to bite something, you couldn't just throw a dead duck and change their mind.



Thanks, I'm still grieving my loss of our very special family member Maggie. Because of the that, my reply didn't show it.

Although the context of your point was well made in that situation.

On another note, I've seen a Lab being trained as a protection dog. Well, actually the entire training includes obedience, tracking, and protection.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> As I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm somewhat neutral in this debate. That being due to the fact that if any here are old enough to remember like NOYDB and myself, the German Shepherd, Doberman, and The Rottweiler breeds all went through this same kind of thinking at one time.
> 
> I personally believe it is based on the popularity of the breed and the fact that 100's of thousands of them come to being in our society because of it in a rather short period of time.
> 
> ...



I agree.  I too am old enough to remember the German Shepards, Doberman's, and Rottweilers all being subject to the same thing Pit Bulls are today.

I'm neutral myself.  I've been around big dogs, including pits, all my life.  I'm not scared of them, but I do treat them with a healthy dose of respect, as one would a chainsaw, or a naval contact mine lying around someone's back yard.  

Pit owners (and other big dog owners) suffer from negative public image of a small percentage of owners who mistreat/abuse their animals.  Several friends of mine own them (pits) and defend them rabidly. They are blind to the fact that when you are talking about an animal large enough to easily kill a human being, it's not irrational that a large number of people are scared of them and don't want them around themselves/their families, because they don't know if the owner is a good one or one of the idiots.

Those little crappy lapdogs are much more prone to attack, but you can pretty much laugh off a Chihuahua attack (I suppose it would technically be possibly for a Chihuahua to fatally maul a human being, but the human would have to be restrained or in a coma) while a Pit, Doberman, or Rotty can do fatal damage in seconds.

I can see both sides.  I understand those who love their dogs and treat them like family, but they have to see that those who simply don't trust them are entitled to their opinion as well.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> but they have to see that those who simply don't trust them are entitled to their opinion as well.



Agreed until they start whinging that one was allowed in Lowe's and how dare they not join the quake fest.


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## Jeff Phillips (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Don't spin it! Guns were made to kill humans not paper targets. And as nchillbilly is saying pitbulls were also made to kill humans. You shouldn't be allowed to own one or take one in a store with you..funny he don't hold the same thought on guns.



When they start putting brains into guns so they can jump out of the safe and attack without any assistance you will have a valid discussion point. Until then this is really weak and has no relation to the topic.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> I understand those who love their dogs and treat them like family, but they have to see that those who simply don't trust them are entitled to their opinion as well.



If a person is not comfortable around a pit or a rottie then ok good for them they can make that choice..when they spread lies about a breed I love then they will be called on it. When they say they were created to kill animals that's lies that spread and spread and further hurt the breed and ppl fighting to clear the name.


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## lbzdually (Jan 4, 2016)

This the one that showed up at my house.  Sweet dog, but I still don't trust her.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

lbzdually said:


> This the one that showed up at my house.  Sweet dog, but I still don't trust her.



If shes a stray she prolly don't trust you either. Hate to say it but humans are the most evil and dangerous animals on the planet. Are you keeping her or trying to rescue her out?


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> If a person is not comfortable around a pit or a rottie then ok good for them they can make that choice..when they spread lies about a breed I love then they will be called on it. When they say they were created to kill animals that's lies that spread and spread and further hurt the breed and ppl fighting to clear the name.



I think you are misunderstanding a few things. No one has said that pits were specifically bred to kill people. I have said that there is ample evidence to show that pit bulls on average have the potential to be much more aggressive than most other breeds, and that most dog attacks in the US that cause a death or serious maiming are done by pit bulls. Nor have I said they are all bad. My point, is that just like Obama's Syrian refugees, I can't tell the good from the bad and I don't trust any of them. 

Also, they sometimes seem to have a tendency to be docile for years, then be suddenly triggered by unknown reasons to attack someone. This is not Michael Vick's dogs I'm talking about either. I'm talking about family pet pits. And there is plenty of evidence to back that up too.

I am not saying that you shouldn't have a pit if you want one. What I am saying is that if you are going to keep a pit, use some sense. Don't blindly delude yourself into thinking that it doesn't have the potential to be dangerous to other people. That is the attitude that causes people to die or be maimed. 

Be a responsible owner if you have one. Don't let it run loose. Don't let it have access to strangers or other folk's kids. Have the responsibility to realize that you own a potentially dangerous dog. Just like with gun ownership comes the responsibility to realize that they can be dangerous, and you shouldn't leave a loaded gun lying around in a house full of kids. The same goes for owning a dog that is big enough and potentially aggressive enough to cause harm to others. If all pit owners were responsible, there would be no problems.

And don't expect everyone to agree with you about there being no bad pit bulls when their personal experience tells them otherwise. You will not convince anyone, you will just sound as if you are talking purely from emotion instead of logic.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I think you are misunderstanding a few things. No one has said that pits were specifically bred to kill people. I have said that there is ample evidence to show that pit bulls on average have the potential to be much more aggressive than most other breeds, and that most dog attacks in the US that cause a death or serious maiming are done by pit bulls. Nor have I said they are all bad. My point, is that just like Obama's Syrian refugees, I can't tell the good from the bad and I don't trust any of them.
> 
> Also, they sometimes seem to have a tendency to be docile for years, then be suddenly triggered by unknown reasons to attack someone. This is not Michael Vick's dogs I'm talking about either. I'm talking about family pet pits. And there is plenty of evidence to back that up too.
> 
> ...



I quoted another guy who specifically said that not ppl but animals same thing LIES I even highlighted it in red post 190 check it out.

Again im not saying there are not bad pitbulls..there are. Same with everything else theres one bad apple somewhere. THEY ARE NOT however bred to kill they are RAISED to be that way!


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Guns and dogs to me are the same things. Neither is made with the ability to kill you on their own BUT you put a bad person behind either and they both can kill you dead. To that I don't think either or should be restricted or banned in any form.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> I quoted another guy who specifically said that yep I even highlighted it in red post 190 check it out.
> 
> Again im not saying there are not bad pitbulls..there are. Same with everything else theres one bad apple somewhere. THEY ARE NOT however bred to kill they are RAISED to be that way!



That statement is the one that scares me when I see pit owners repeat it like a mantra. Most pits never go off, but they all have the potential to. 

Again, there are plenty of instances of pits raised by good folks in loving homes that no one trained or raised to be aggressive that maimed or killed people. It is not just abused or trained fighting pits that attack people. Sorry, but it is true, and can be proven. Also, many refuse to believe that their dog that loves them and is gentle around them may attack someone it doesn't know. I have also seen that personally. 

Again, if you own a pit, have the honesty and responsibility to realize that it is potentially dangerous, regardless of who raised it.


----------



## T.P. (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> I quoted another guy who specifically said that not ppl but animals same thing LIES I even highlighted it in red post 190 check it out.
> 
> Again im not saying there are not bad pitbulls..there are. Same with everything else theres one bad apple somewhere. THEY ARE NOT however bred to kill they are RAISED to be that way!



I'm an older fella that doesn't know all the hip abbreviations. Can you type in full words so I can understand your post?


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Guns and dogs to me are the same things. Neither is made with the ability to kill you on their own BUT you put a bad person behind either and they both can kill you dead. To that I don't think either or should be restricted or banned in any form.



That is 100% wrong. A dog definitely has the ability to kill you on its own, as does a bear, wolf, tiger, or any other animal. You do not have to cock a dog and pull the trigger. It is alive and acts on its own instincts, which are first and foremost, that of a predatory animal.


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

Sure am glad we have an expert about pit bulls. I feel much better now.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

As do your neighbors, I'm sure.

I am not an expert on anything. But in nearly half a century of living, I have seen things with my own eyes that cause me to form opinions. Your opinion may vary.


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

lbzdually said:


> This the one that showed up at my house.  Sweet dog, but I still don't trust her.



every dog has to earn my trust.

she looks like a sweet dog, just needs love and to be trusted. If you keep her plz do not put her on a chain locked up to a tree. That is the worse thing you can to her.


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> As do your neighbors.



....nuff said


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## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> When you actually read up on why/how they were created back in the olden days and stop spewing lies we can have a discussion. Till then you and ppl like you are the reason they have a bad name.
> 
> They were originally bred to do bull baiting (when a dog grabs a bull by the nose and doesn't let go so that the person castrating a bull doesn't get gored).
> 
> PEOPLE made them get into a pit with said bull and fight for sport much like dog fighting! Which in turn they called them pit bulls.



You have the definition of bull baiting all wrong.
It was actually considered a blood sport.
http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-magazines/dogworld/the-history-of-bull-baiting.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-baiting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull
They also used them for bear baiting .You suppose they were trying to castrate the bears to?


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## 660griz (Jan 4, 2016)

I really don't care what breed it is. If you have your dog in a public area, you should have it on a leash, under control at all times. For the safety of the dog and others.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

T.P. said:


> I'm an older fella that doesn't know all the hip abbreviations. Can you type in full words so I can understand your post?



The only abbreviation I used was ppl..which stands for people lol.


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Guns and dogs to me are the same things. Neither is made with the ability to kill you on their own BUT you put a bad person behind either and they both can kill you dead. To that I don't think either or should be restricted or banned in any form.



A gun is not the same as a dog.  A gun will never go off all by itself.  

I worked for an outfitter and guided pony rides out West for a while.  People would take their 6 year old and want to put it on the back of an 800 pound animal.  They would almost always ask "Will he buck?" and I would have to respond "Probably not but maybe".  It's an animal.

As far as I can tell there are two distinct camps here.  Those that think that pits are aggressive by nature  and those that don't.  I don't know how else that can be determined except for with statistics.  After that, all that's left is to challenge the source of the statistics or the method of gathering them.

Different types of sharks are known for different levels of aggressiveness.  Black bears, brown bears, panda bears and polar bears are know for different levels of aggressiveness too.  Among the big breeds of dogs, the ones that can do real damage, is it the same?  I would guess so.  

Aggressiveness aside,  I would like to know if certain breeds are harder to call off once they decide to attack.  It seems like that would be a training issue.  Now my anecdotal observation.  We had some friends over for a party and one of our friends brought their pit over.  A little girl got bit in the face by the pit over some Cheerios she was holding.  The owners called the dog off and it immediately shied.  As far as I can tell, that could have happened with any big dog not trained to deal with children.  Bodie, the dog, ended up escaping from his yard, scaring the neighborhood and getting shot to death by a police officer. 

Pit lovers,

Are they harder to train?  Can you train one to drop a t-bone steak into your hand after it's had it in it's mouth?


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> That is 100% wrong. A dog definitely has the ability to kill you on its own, as does a bear, wolf, tiger, or any other animal. You do not have to cock a dog and pull the trigger. It is alive and acts on its own instincts, which are first and foremost, that of a predatory animal.



Like I said earlier once you stop putting a domestic dog in same category as a wild animal we may have a discussion. Their brains are no where near the same and they don't have the same drives as a wild animal. So no a pit puppy wont come out the womb ready to tear your neck off. Im not making stuff up there are numerous studies about this guys if youd set aside the hate the personal fears youd see them for what they are.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

K.....


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> A gun is not the same as a dog.  A gun will never go off all by itself.
> 
> I worked for an outfitter and guided pony rides out West for a while.  People would take their 6 year old and want to put it on the back of an 800 pound animal.  They would almost always ask "Will he buck?" and I would have to respond "Probably not but maybe".  It's an animal.
> 
> ...



Sure you can. As with ANY dog short of a wolf dog. Pits are not wild animals they understand you and will take any kind of training.


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Sure you can. As with ANY dog short of a wolf dog. Pits are not wild animals they understand you and will take any kind of training.



Do you think this is true?
_
Different types of sharks are known for different levels of aggressiveness. Black bears, brown bears, panda bears and polar bears are know for different levels of aggressiveness too. Among the big breeds of dogs, the ones that can do real damage, is it the same? I would guess so. _


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Like I said earlier once you stop putting a domestic dog in same category as a wild animal we may have a discussion. Their brains are no where near the same and they don't have the same drives as a wild animal. So no a pit puppy wont come out the womb ready to tear your neck off. Im not making stuff up there are numerous studies about this guys if youd set aside the hate the personal fears youd see them for what they are.



Do you think that a beagle puppy comes out of the womb ready to chase rabbits?  By that, I mean do you think that it has some hardwiring that can be developed?

Nevermind pit bulls for the moment.  Do you think that certain dogs, the hunting breeds, have dispositions to certain behaviors?


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Do I think its true a large dog like a pit or rottie would do damage if it got ahold of you? Seems to be common sense they are large dogs that could weigh 120lbs. Do I think they are like wild animals and are bred with an instinct to kill to survive? Absolutely not


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Do you think that a beagle puppy comes out of the womb ready to chase rabbits?  By that, I mean do you think that it has some hardwiring that can be developed?
> 
> Nevermind pit bulls for the moment.  Do you think that certain dogs, the hunting breeds, have dispositions to certain behaviors?



Sure my heelers will act on instinct and run after some cattle. However pits were not bred to kill on instinct to kill to survive like a wild animal I don't see why you guys don't get that.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Do I think its true a large dog like a pit or rottie would do damage if it got ahold of you? Seems to be common sense they are large dogs that could weigh 120lbs. Do I think they are like wild animals and are bred with an instinct to kill to survive? Absolutely not



You didn't answer the question.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Guns and dogs to me are the same things. Neither is made with the ability to kill you on their own BUT you put a bad person behind either and they both can kill you dead. To that I don't think either or should be restricted or banned in any form.



If your serious about this statement, then this should be over, I can't take anyone serious that would make such a statement, if I have to explain why, then I don't know what to say,


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## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

I've got to admit, this notion of dogs "snapping" and going mental seems weird to me. Seems like one could curb the possibility of that with any dog given the proper training.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

People thought rotties were the killer breed in the 80s but you don't hear about them anymore not bec they've changed or the genetic makeup of them has changed. Non of these breeds are "killers". Do I think if one got ahold of a little child would/could it kill them easier than a Maltese? Of course. Do I think it runs out of a house with killing on its mind definitely not. UNLESS the owners made it that way.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> You didn't answer the question.



Actually I did


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I've got to admit, this notion of dogs "snapping" and going mental seems weird to me. Seems like one could curb the possibility of that with any dog given the proper training.



Much like humans you cant control whether someone walks into a school and shoots up the place. Even with proper upbringing. If someone is that worried about a change happening like that then by all means don't get a pit or rottie or gs bec you aren't gonna do it any justice as an owner.


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## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Sure my heelers will act on instinct and run after some cattle. However pits were not bred to kill on instinct to kill to survive like a wild animal I don't see why you guys don't get that.



That would be a very important point to determine.  I don't don't know myself.


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## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> You have the definition of bull baiting all wrong.
> It was actually considered a blood sport.
> http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-magazines/dogworld/the-history-of-bull-baiting.aspx
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-baiting
> ...



Yea and some posts back it was explained that they are bred to herd something and to babysit kids, which is it, were they selectively bread to herd and be a nany, or were they bred to catch a 1500 lb bull, I seriously doubt that a dog that could catch a bull could do any damage to anyone. Although I did have a rat terrier that thought he could catch a bull, it turned out that he couldn't , but I guess that didn't have anything to do with selective breeding, he probably just didn't make his mind up to do it.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> People thought rotties were the killer breed in the 80s but you don't hear about them anymore not bec they've changed or the genetic makeup of them has changed. Non of these breeds are "killers". Do I think if one got ahold of a little child would/could it kill them easier than a Maltese? Of course. Do I think it runs out of a house with killing on its mind definitely not. UNLESS the owners made it that way.



Rotties are the breed that kills the most people, after pit bulls. You hear more about pits than rotties for a simple reason: because they kill and maul more people than rotties do. Pits have consistently been the top statistical killer breed of dogs for decades. I'm talking about actual statistics. Not your made-up emotional statements. I have no more to say, as you have your mind made up, and I get the feeling that if your pit was ripping your throat out, you would be swearing that he didn't do it with your last breath because you didn't train him to.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> If your serious about this statement, then this should be over, I can't take anyone serious that would make such a statement, if I have to explain why, then I don't know what to say,



I need to rephrase that. Dogs have the ability to kill you without human interaction. Dogs are not born out to kill a person WITHOUT a human that steers it down that path. They are not wild game they do not have a killer instinct such as wolves or bears n such. Guns need someone to pull the trigger and a domestic dog needs someone to create the hate and aggression in it to kill. Imo


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Rotties are the breed that kills the most people, after pit bulls. You hear more about pits than rotties for a simple reason: because they kill and maul more people than rotties do. Pits have consistently been the top statistical killer breed of dogs for decades. I'm talking about actual statistics. Not your made-up emotional statements. I have no more to say, as you have your mind made up, and I get the feeling that if your pit was ripping your throat out, you would be swearing that he didn't do it with your last breath because you didn't train him to.



Id bet my life on a pit raised correctly and properly trained from pup to adult dog. All day every day. I don't discriminate. You have your mind made up too agree to disagree!


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## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> Yea and some posts back it was explained that they are bred to herd something and to babysit kids, which is it, were they selectively bread to herd and be a nany, or were they bred to catch a 1500 lb bull, I seriously doubt that a dog that could catch a bull could do any damage to anyone. Although I did have a rat terrier that thought he could catch a bull, it turned out that he couldn't , but I guess that didn't have anything to do with selective breeding, he probably just didn't make his mind up to do it.



Yea they were breed to be nanny dogs and round up goats..............


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## Da Possum (Jan 4, 2016)

All day every day.


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## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> I need to rephrase that. Dogs have the ability to kill you without human interaction. Dogs are not born out to kill a person WITHOUT a human that steers it down that path. They are not wild game they do not have a killer instinct such as wolves or bears n such. Guns need someone to pull the trigger and a domestic dog needs someone to create the hate and aggression in it to kill. Imo



Just so you know, we all understand what you mean by that. It is true that the dogs environment mostly dictates it's behavior, we're just saying that pits were selectively bred to catch and hold, and just like any other animal that man has selectively bred for certain characteristics and temporment, pits have been selectively bred to aggressively catch and hold. Some of them won't do it, and probably most won't without a push in the right direction, just like some blue ticks that were selectively bred to have a tracking and treeing instinct won't do anything without some direction, but some will, all on there own. I've been around hunting dogs all my life, bear dogs, coon dogs, rabbit dogs, squirrel dogs, bird dogs, hog dogs, cattle dogs, their all the same, we get certain breeds due to how they were bred, which makes them wired a certain way , so to speak. We don't believe every pit bull is vicious, their probably not, all we are saying is due to their breed, the switch might flip on one day, out of the blue, like my best squirrel doc, at 3 years old I had written her off as a tree dog, and Just let her run as a pet, then out of the clear blue sky she trees a squirrel, after that I was offered good money, and everyone wanted a pup out of her. Just because someone has a sweet cuddly pit, doesn't mean that at say 7 years old that pit don't realize what it's primal instinct is, to catch something running and hold.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> Just so you know, we all understand what you mean by that. It is true that the dogs environment mostly dictates it's behavior, we're just saying that pits were selectively bred to catch and hold, and just like any other animal that man has selectively bred for certain characteristics and temporment, pits have been selectively bred to aggressively catch and hold. Some of them won't do it, and probably most won't without a push in the right direction, just like some blue ticks that were selectively bred to have a tracking and treeing instinct won't do anything without some direction, but some will, all on there own. I've been around hunting dogs all my life, bear dogs, coon dogs, rabbit dogs, squirrel dogs, bird dogs, hog dogs, cattle dogs, their all the same, we get certain breeds due to how they were bred, which makes them wired a certain way , so to speak. We don't believe every pit bull is vicious, their probably not, all we are saying is due to their breed, the switch might flip on one day, out of the blue, like my best squirrel doc, at 3 years old I had written her off as a tree dog, and Just let her run as a pet, then out of the clear blue sky she trees a squirrel, after that I was offered good money, and everyone wanted a pup out of her. Just because someone has a sweet cuddly pit, doesn't mean that at say 7 years old that pit don't realize what it's primal instinct is, to catch something running and hold.



And that's perfectly fine to feel that way. I feel like if a dog is raised a certain way the only reason it flips a switch at an older age is sickness. Typically cancer from what ive seen. That changes them in the head. If you don't wanna take that chance its fine really! A lot of us don't have that fear!


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

cklem said:


> Just so you know, we all understand what you mean by that. It is true that the dogs environment mostly dictates it's behavior, we're just saying that pits were selectively bred to catch and hold, and just like any other animal that man has selectively bred for certain characteristics and temporment, pits have been selectively bred to aggressively catch and hold. Some of them won't do it, and probably most won't without a push in the right direction, just like some blue ticks that were selectively bred to have a tracking and treeing instinct won't do anything without some direction, but some will, all on there own. I've been around hunting dogs all my life, bear dogs, coon dogs, rabbit dogs, squirrel dogs, bird dogs, hog dogs, cattle dogs, their all the same, we get certain breeds due to how they were bred, which makes them wired a certain way , so to speak. We don't believe every pit bull is vicious, their probably not, all we are saying is due to their breed, the switch might flip on one day, out of the blue, like my best squirrel doc, at 3 years old I had written her off as a tree dog, and Just let her run as a pet, then out of the clear blue sky she trees a squirrel, after that I was offered good money, and everyone wanted a pup out of her. Just because someone has a sweet cuddly pit, doesn't mean that at say 7 years old that pit don't realize what it's primal instinct is, to catch something running and hold.





toyota4x4h said:


> And that's perfectly fine to feel that way. I feel like if a dog is raised a certain way the only reason it flips a switch at an older age is sickness. Typically cancer from what ive seen. That changes them in the head. If you don't wanna take that chance its fine really! A lot of us don't have that fear!



If you can't agree with the above statement, then there's no discussing the topic further with you. You even stated it in a post yourself.


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## JustUs4All (Jan 4, 2016)

I love dogs.  Because of that I chose to involve myself heavily with dog rescue.  Because of that I spend a lot of time with all sorts of dogs.  I have owned a Rottie that came to me full grown and I did not know his background.  He turned out to be the wussiest dog we had at the time.  Even our little dogs pushed him around and I could crush him with a harsh word.  Still he had the capability of killing me if he wanted to.  I made it a point of never allowing him in a situation where he might be tempted either with me or with a stranger.

Rescue causes me to be in contact with a lot of Pits, other bully breeds, Rotties, Dobermans, etc.  I give each of these the respect  due to anything that can cause a lot of harm.  I am a lot more careful with one of these than I am with the smaller breeds that are bread as lap dogs.

I have never met a bad Pitty personally, but I an extra cautious with them because of their potential.  I am similarly more careful with my hunting knife than I am with my butter knife.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

JustUs4All said:


> I love dogs.  Because of that I chose to involve myself heavily with dog rescue.  Because of that I spend a lot of time with all sorts of dogs.  I have owned a Rottie that came to me full grown and I did not know his background.  He turned out to be the wussiest dog we had at the time.  Even our little dogs pushed him around and I could crush him with a harsh word.  Still he had the capability of killing me if he wanted to.  I made it a point of never allowing him in a situation where he might be tempted either with me or with a stranger.
> 
> Rescue causes me to be in contact with a lot of Pits, other bully breeds, Rotties, Dobermans, etc.  I give each of these the respect  due to anything that can cause a lot of harm.  I am a lot more careful with one of these than I am with the smaller breeds that are bread as lap dogs.
> 
> I have never met a bad Pitty personally, but I an extra cautious with them because of their potential.  I am similarly more careful with my hunting knife than I am with my butter knife.



Some folks just can't comprehend common sense when they hear it!


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## DDD (Jan 4, 2016)

Just so you guys know...


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## shakey gizzard (Jan 4, 2016)

Only the pointy eared ones bite, not the floppy, They are sweet!


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## The mtn man (Jan 4, 2016)

JustUs4All said:


> I love dogs.  Because of that I chose to involve myself heavily with dog rescue.  Because of that I spend a lot of time with all sorts of dogs.  I have owned a Rottie that came to me full grown and I did not know his background.  He turned out to be the wussiest dog we had at the time.  Even our little dogs pushed him around and I could crush him with a harsh word.  Still he had the capability of killing me if he wanted to.  I made it a point of never allowing him in a situation where he might be tempted either with me or with a stranger.
> 
> Rescue causes me to be in contact with a lot of Pits, other bully breeds, Rotties, Dobermans, etc.  I give each of these the respect  due to anything that can cause a lot of harm.  I am a lot more careful with one of these than I am with the smaller breeds that are bread as lap dogs.
> 
> I have never met a bad Pitty personally, but I an extra cautious with them because of their potential.  I am similarly more careful with my hunting knife than I am with my butter knife.



I agree with you 100%, I have only had 1 bad pit experience, it for no reason jumped my GRNC, treeing walker, that was 9 years old,and killed her instantly, catching and holding her throat, we could do nothing. I too have a rescue dog, the one I spoke of earlier, she's a big bad Maltese. Well,mostly Maltese. As for my bad pit experience, I've never experienced another breed of dog do anything like that. for no apparent reason, then afterward wag her tail like she deserved a treat.


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> ...there is some real stupid going in this thread.
> 
> 
> a lot folks sure do sound like they are a Dem in waiting
> ...


 
I will stand with this statment

4x4, just stop some of these folks are just about full blown DEMS and just don't know it...

NC you sound like a democratic politician and have a some buddies backing your campaign


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

I'm done lol. I felt like I was in the political forum for awhile there lol.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

Perhaps Linus should have said religon, politics, and pit bulls...


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## lbzdually (Jan 4, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> If shes a stray she prolly don't trust you either. Hate to say it but humans are the most evil and dangerous animals on the planet. Are you keeping her or trying to rescue her out?



Her 'owner', said that we can bring her  to him if she's bothering us and that he will chain her to a tree.   That's why I have been in contact with someone who specializes in pit rescues to try and find her a good home.  We've got a few mouse slaying cats who she is terrorizing and we need them because we live in a field, so she has to go.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 4, 2016)

lbzdually said:


> Her 'owner', said that we can bring her  to him if she's bothering us and that he will chain her to a tree.   That's why I have been in contact with someone who specializes in pit rescues to try and find her a good home.  We've got a few mouse slaying cats who she is terrorizing and we need them because we live in a field, so she has to go.



Yes please don't make her life tied to a tree forever. If you need help pm me I can contact some folks.


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## fish hawk (Jan 4, 2016)

Longest running dog thread ever!!!


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> Longest running dog thread ever!!!



Hmmmm......Not sure, but I doubt it. 

Although, this one may not be over yet.


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## DouglasB. (Jan 4, 2016)

I'm just here to say, that if you think that Pit's were bred to babysit kids, you're delusional. Pit bulls weren't referenced as Nanny Dogs (but not in those terms) until 1971, when the Strafordshire Terrier Club of America wanted the AKC to recognize Pits as an actual breed. The term "Nanny Dogs" wasn't first used until the late 1980's. 

But... if you go back to 1853... it was written that pit bulls were decent pets for males, but to viscous and violent for females. 

Referenced again in 1908 as a viscous fighting machine.

and so on... 

"Nanny Dog?" No... repeating a lie over and over, doesn't magically make it true. 

But here are some cold hard facts for you... 

Pibulls make up 6% of the overall pet population, but make up 68% of attacks, and 52% of deaths.

4 million people are bitten each year, 68% of that is 2,720,000 people are bitten by pitbulls alone. 60 percent of those are children. 1,632,000 kids bitten by pit bulls. (how many kids were shot last year? Since some of you want to compare pit bulls to guns.) 

53% of deaths... were family members of dogs. Other family members claimed that the dog had never shown any sign of aggression. (So much for the "it's the owner not the breed myth.") 

You can spin it any way you want... but pit bulls are a dangerous breed, and there are examples every single year as to why.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

JustUs4All said:


> I love dogs.  Because of that I chose to involve myself heavily with dog rescue.  Because of that I spend a lot of time with all sorts of dogs.  I have owned a Rottie that came to me full grown and I did not know his background.  He turned out to be the wussiest dog we had at the time.  Even our little dogs pushed him around and I could crush him with a harsh word.  Still he had the capability of killing me if he wanted to.  I made it a point of never allowing him in a situation where he might be tempted either with me or with a stranger.
> 
> Rescue causes me to be in contact with a lot of Pits, other bully breeds, Rotties, Dobermans, etc.  I give each of these the respect  due to anything that can cause a lot of harm.  I am a lot more careful with one of these than I am with the smaller breeds that are bread as lap dogs.
> 
> I have never met a bad Pitty personally, but I an extra cautious with them because of their potential.  I am similarly more careful with my hunting knife than I am with my butter knife.



In other words, you have some common sense, and a grasp on reality. If everyone who owned a pit had that attitude, and made an honest assessment of what they were playing with, then the statistics would not be what they are. It's the folks who refuse to see any danger at all in the breed who own the dogs that attack the neighbors. 



nickel back said:


> I will stand with this statment
> 
> 4x4, just stop some of these folks are just about full blown DEMS and just don't know it...
> 
> NC you sound like a democratic politician and have a some buddies backing your campaign



Yes, sir. I am about as raging of a liberal as you will ever meet in your life, for sure. Anyone who knows me will verify that.

I take it you have never been bitten or cornered  by someone else's pit? I'll talk to you when you have.

How do you feel about taking in Muslim extremist refugees?


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 4, 2016)

DouglasB. said:


> I'm just here to say, that if you think that Pit's were bred to babysit kids, you're delusional. Pit bulls weren't referenced as Nanny Dogs (but not in those terms) until 1971, when the Strafordshire Terrier Club of America wanted the AKC to recognize Pits as an actual breed. The term "Nanny Dogs" wasn't first used until the late 1980's.
> 
> But... if you go back to 1853... it was written that pit bulls were decent pets for males, but to viscous and violent for females.
> 
> ...



I said the same thing, and they stuck their fingers in their ears and informed me that it was all a conspiracy by the media and an urban legend. You are wasting your breath, brother. There are none so deaf as those who refuse to hear. Until they see the mauled corpse of a child. I don't even know if that would bring some to their senses.


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## shakey gizzard (Jan 4, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> Longest running dog  ever!!!



I think it was a greyhound!


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## DouglasB. (Jan 4, 2016)

How about this, then... over 212 million. 

That's how much pit bulls cost tax payers each year. Between controlling the breed and paying the health care costs of victims... 212 million goes to one darn breed of dog. 

And we wonder why we can't fund NASA... or why soldiers don't make jack...


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> In other words, you have some common sense, and a grasp on reality. If everyone who owned a pit had that attitude, and made an honest assessment of what they were playing with, then the statistics would not be what they are. It's the folks who refuse to see any danger at all in the breed who own the dogs that attack the neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes been bit more than my fair share, doctor bills and scares....


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## nickel back (Jan 4, 2016)

DouglasB. said:


> How about this, then... over 212 million.
> 
> That's how much pit bulls cost tax payers each year. Between controlling the breed and paying the health care costs of victims... 212 million goes to one darn breed of dog.
> 
> And we wonder why we can't fund NASA... or why soldiers don't make jack...



Using your logic how much does guns cost the tax payers.....


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Until they see the mauled corpse of a child. I don't even know if that would bring some to their senses.



No, then it would clearly be the owner's fault.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 4, 2016)

One of the saddest things I've ever witnessed in relation to dogs is how many pit bulls are in the county dog impoundments. It's plumb disgusting that there are that many irresponsible pet owners just in a 3 county area around me.

I was searching for my lost dog that my Dad let runoff chasing deer one night while I was out of town and he was keeping them for me.


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## DouglasB. (Jan 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> Using your logic how much does guns cost the tax payers.....




140,316,000 pet owners in the US

121,182,000 gun owners in the US

8,418,960 pit bull owners. 

Do you REALLY want to figure out the absolute tax damage... or would you like to get back on topic? 

Apples to Oranges, sir.


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068491/

Any of the big breeds can do a lot damage, that's why they breed them big. 
How a dog of any breed is socialized affects how dangerous it can be.

If I were at Lowe's or any public venue and encountered a dog I would respond by observing how the dog reacts. I know not to ever run and trigger the chase response of any breed. I know not to stick my hand out towards the dog until the dog indicates it's expecting it.

Round about way of saying I am not afraid of dogs and don't care if they are in Lowe's or on the street. I am not going to birth kittens because someone has a dog in a public place.


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## T.P. (Jan 4, 2016)

Guns cost the taxpayers probably zero. Gun owners cost the taxpayers a good bit.


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## srb (Jan 4, 2016)

*This:::*



fish hawk said:


> Longest running dog thread ever!!!



Seems it's still going....


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## kmckinnie (Jan 4, 2016)

That will end the thread. Just saying.


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## ambush80 (Jan 4, 2016)

Pit lovers,

I just want to know, do you believe that certain types of sharks are more aggressive than others?  How about rodents?  Bears?  Primates?  Cats?  Why not dogs? 

If it is true that certain breeds of animals are more aggressive than others, then the argument is: are pit bulls more or less aggressive than their similarly sized counterparts.  How would you determine that?


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## NOYDB (Jan 4, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Pit lovers,
> 
> I just want to know, do you believe that certain types of sharks are more aggressive than others?  How about rodents?  Bears?  Primates?  Cats?  Why not dogs? yes
> 
> ...




So?

I deal with the real world in whatever way is needed. I don't wear bubble wrap suits to protect me against *what might happen*. 
Nor do I let urban legends dictate what I might do.


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## Buzz (Jan 4, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Pit lovers,
> 
> I just want to know, do you believe that certain types of sharks are more aggressive than others?  How about rodents?  Bears?  Primates?  Cats?  Why not dogs?
> 
> If it is true that certain breeds of animals are more aggressive than others, then the argument is: are pit bulls more or less aggressive than their similarly sized counterparts.  How would you determine that?



One problem with your argument is dogs are all the same species.   They all share the same DNA just different characteristics.   Just like all humans are the same species even though there are obviously differences in characteristics between Asians, caucasians, etc.   Primates, Sharks, etc. are not all the same species.  A gorilla is not a chimp is not a oragutan etc.  So you can say a bull shark is more aggressive than a nurse shark (which it is), but it's also a different species of animal. 

However a chihuahua, basset hound, lab, great dane, and the dreaded pit bull are all the same species and can hence produce offspring my mating a chihuahua to a great dane, at least in theory.


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## ambush80 (Jan 5, 2016)

Buzz said:


> One problem with your argument is dogs are all the same species.   They all share the same DNA just different characteristics.   Just like all humans are the same species even though there are obviously differences in characteristics between Asians, caucasians, etc.   Primates, Sharks, etc. are not all the same species.  A gorilla is not a chimp is not a oragutan etc.  So you can say a bull shark is more aggressive than a nurse shark (which it is), but it's also a different species of animal.
> 
> However a chihuahua, basset hound, lab, great dane, and the dreaded pit bull are all the same species and can hence produce offspring my mating a chihuahua to a great dane, at least in theory.



You're right, of course.  Absolutely right.  Different sharks and different apes are different species.  There's not much variation in within the species.  It's when you get to animals that have been manipulated through breeding that you get wide variation within the species.

Cattle are a fine example as are chickens.  No one will dispute that chickens are bred for certain qualities, dogs equally so.   Someone said that pits were bred as nanny dogs, that is, to watch over children.  I found this most excellent and informative article:

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...t-nanny-dogs-children-until-media-turned-them


_Pitbulls Used to Be Considered the Perfect "Nanny Dogs" for Children -- Until the Media Turned Them Into Monsters
Despite their reputation, the United Kennel Club doesn't recommended using pitbulls as guard dogs because they're too friendly with strangers.
By Joshua Holland / AlterNet
January 30, 2013

Print
285 COMMENTS

For most of the 114 years since the American pitbull terrier was first recognized by the United Kennel Club, the breed was rightly seen as the perfect “nanny dog” for children because of its friendly nature, loyalty and stability. As the ASPCA notes, the pitbulls were “once considered especially non-aggressive to people.”_

Even if this is true, is it possible that people over the years may have bred those qualities out of them for various reasons and what we have now is not the same thing?


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## bulldawgborn (Jan 5, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> You're right, of course.  Absolutely right.  Different sharks and different apes are different species.  There's not much variation in within the species.  It's when you get to animals that have been manipulated through breeding that you get wide variation within the species.
> 
> Cattle are a fine example as are chickens.  No one will dispute that chickens are bred for certain qualities, dogs equally so.   Someone said that pits were bred as nanny dogs, that is, to watch over children.  I found this most excellent and informative article:
> 
> ...



I think your last sentence hits the nail right square on the head.  

I'm no kind of expert and most of the following is just my opinion, but I think breeding in the last 30 years or so has changed the pit bull that people once knew.

The standard that the "pit bull" was originally modeled after is/was the relatively small (30-60 lb), short (under 21" at the withers), but balanced "game dog".  Most dog men would tell you that a true game dog _can't be people aggressive_, but that the dog _would need to have a tremendous prey drive_.  In my opinion, that type of dog would never intentionally attack a person...but I do believe a human could trigger the prey instinct in certain situations.  Which is why, just like any dog, supervision is required.

The "pit bull" we are left with after years of unscrupulous breeding has a severely diluted genepool in many instances.  The "pits" I see today are almost always over 70 lbs and at least somewhat out of proportion.  Because of what has been deemed desirable in the last quarter century, several spin off breeds of the original pit bull have been created...hence the pocket bullies and XXL bullies that are over 150lbs.  It's a pretty far stretch to call some of those dogs pit bulls.

That kind of ties in to the problem of breed identification that I think skews the number of "pit bull" attacks.  Where does the pit bull breed stop and another breed begin?

Am I saying that pit bulls are not potentially dangerous dogs? NO  
But does any other breed of dog require less instruction, discipline, and supervision for the owner to meet the requirements of responsible dog ownership?  NO

I think the pit bull moniker got associated with violence because of how humans USED them, and now the breed is a classic example of how hard it is to overcome a bad reputation.  The fact that there are so many irresponsible dog owners--notice I didn't specify a breed--is one of the biggest reasons there are so many conflicts.  There will always be exceptions to the norm, but responsible owners can prevent the vast majority of dog attacks.


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 5, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> I think your last sentence hits the nail right square on the head.
> 
> I'm no kind of expert and most of the following is just my opinion, but I think breeding in the last 30 years or so has changed the pit bull that people once knew.
> 
> ...



'Nuff said.....


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 5, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> The fact that there are so many irresponsible dog owner



The source of most problems can be traced back to really stupid people. Who don't know they are stupid.


----------



## LTZ25 (Jan 5, 2016)

The dog was casing the place .


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 5, 2016)

You can tell a lot about a person by the shoes he wears. You also can tell a lot about a person my the dogs he has.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 5, 2016)

You can also tell a lot about a person that keeps getting bit by dogs.  They seem to be a better judge of character than most people...


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 5, 2016)

Got bit by a German Shepard on time that wasn't suspose to hurt a fly. Almost got eat up by a pit on time but luckily had a brick laying in a convient spot. Then the last dog episode came from yet another pit while trying to fell a 100 ft white pine next to a house. That dog came inches from loosing his nose from a stihl 660 magnum saw. Only if my bar was 2 inches longer. Haven't been back to work for either of the 3 mentioned homeowners above. They think more of there dogs than me and I'm fine with that. Don't know why Lucy done that, she never hurt a fly. No thanks on the pits.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Jan 5, 2016)

most insurance companies now are asking about breeds of dogs you keep, and won't insure a home with pits, rotts, dobermans and such.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 5, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> most insurance companies now are asking about breeds of dogs you keep, and won't insure a home with pits, rotts, dobermans and such.



I had 4 quotes recently.  Only one asked if I even owned a dog.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 6, 2016)

Saw this on my news feed this morning....

9 year old boy mauled TO DEATH by his sister's 3 pit bulls.  

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article53003700.html




> “If she had any hint at all that these dogs had any propensity for violence, she would never have left her brother with them,” he said. “She raised them and cannot fathom what could have happened that caused them to attack a little boy.”



I'm sure they were perfect little angels that had never once showed any sign of violence.... until genetics took over and the switch was flipped.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 6, 2016)

Just more media conspiracy, NGS. That same quote or one very similar shows up in a lot of stories like this that are made up by the media and put in the news to turn people against pitbulls. Remember, they are excellent babysitters.


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 6, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Saw this on my news feed this morning....
> 
> 9 year old boy mauled TO DEATH by his sister's 3 pit bulls.
> 
> ...



and still some will never learn, JS


----------



## grouper throat (Jan 6, 2016)

My dad has been bitted twice by the same pit before it was put down by the owner who was his friend. My bro in law has plenty for hog hunting and they'll rip another dog/hog/whatever to pieces as well, especially the males and not scared of anything. They'll nip at a bull before he stomps them to death if you let them. I have no doubt they'd bite a person. 

Now my mother in law raised a female out of the same litter that is one of the sweetest dogs I've seen. It is around my 11 mth old son some and if I thought it was a danger I'd already have said something or put it down. I believe you can alter it some by raising it to try and be a baby but breeding sometimes overrides it. Seen too many that are fearless.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 6, 2016)

grouper throat said:


> My dad has been bitted twice by the same pit before it was put down by the owner who was his friend. My bro in law has plenty for hog hunting and they'll rip another dog/hog/whatever to pieces as well, especially the males and not scared of anything. They'll nip at a bull before he stomps them to death if you let them. I have no doubt they'd bite a person.
> 
> Now my mother in law raised a female out of the same litter that is one of the sweetest dogs I've seen. It is around my 11 mth old son some and if I thought it was a danger I'd already have said something or put it down. I believe you can alter it some by raising it to try and be a baby but breeding sometimes overrides it. Seen too many that are fearless.




Seriously?  Dogs from the same litter.  Some you have no doubt would bite a person, but a litter mate with exactly the same genes but is "one of the sweetest dogs you've seen" you don't think would bite someone?  Just because it's been treated like a baby?


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 6, 2016)

Children and dogs don't always mix, I don't care what breed it is. Even a Lab might snap at a child one day out of nowhere because the child pulled on it's ear or got to close to the Poodles food bowl while eating.

Even if the dog means no harm, just snapping at a child could break skin or put and eye out. 

Every dog owner with children should take precaution with their dogs and a child.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 6, 2016)

I think it should be law that all pits have their K9 teeth removed


----------



## StriperrHunterr (Jan 6, 2016)

cklem said:


> I think it should be law that all pits have their K9 teeth removed



I think people should be licensed to reproduce, so...


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 6, 2016)

I think we have too many laws now as it is. Along with too much government and people who believe in it.


----------



## StriperrHunterr (Jan 6, 2016)

Nicodemus said:


> I think we have too many laws now as it is. Along with too much government and people who believe in it.



It's okay, you just need re-edikation.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 6, 2016)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> It's okay, you just need re-edikation.





No I don`t. But yes, it will be okay.


----------



## dawg2 (Jan 6, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.



Exactly.  It is an inherent, genetic trait specific to a breed.  Yes, there are exceptions.  

I have been around the breed for most of my life.  I do not trust them.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 6, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Every dog owner with children should take precaution with their dogs and a child.



What expect people to take responsibility?


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 6, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> What expect people to take responsibility?



Absolutely not, just wishful thinking.....


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 6, 2016)

Nicodemus said:


> I think we have too many laws now as it is. Along with too much government and people who believe in it.



Nic, I hope you know I was joking.


----------



## Fishlipps Revisited (Jan 6, 2016)

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...boy-killed-by-3-pit-bulls-20160105-story.html


----------



## Patriot44 (Jan 6, 2016)

No use for a Pit, will not even allow my kids to stay with my brother because of his. Here is a pic of our Golden mauling my daughter las week.


----------



## deermaster13 (Jan 7, 2016)

UOTE=tree cutter 08;9944466]You can tell a lot about a person by the shoes he wears. You also can tell a lot about a person my the dogs he has.[/QUOTE]

 Seen you post before, surprised that come from you. Yes I own a pit. Each their own. Bad dogs every breed.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

deermaster13 said:


> UOTE=tree cutter 08;9944466]You can tell a lot about a person by the shoes he wears. You also can tell a lot about a person my the dogs he has.



 Seen you post before, surprised that come from you. Yes I own a pit. Each their own. Bad dogs every breed.[/QUOTE]

Indeed....you can tell a lot about a person by WALKING in their shoes!

Not so much, by the shoes they wear.


----------



## mtr3333 (Jan 7, 2016)

Pits as a breed are not bad. Some of them have bad habits they were taught.


----------



## StriperrHunterr (Jan 7, 2016)

Fail.


----------



## mtr3333 (Jan 7, 2016)

yep it appears the most thought out conclusions turn back to learned behavior and owners instead of just a rash generalization.


----------



## lbzdually (Jan 7, 2016)

Well, I just had a episode with that super sweet pit that showed up at my house.  My in-laws dog was up here and food was put out just outside my garage.  My son was out there just about 20 ft away and I was in the garage and I heard the fight start.  I screamed at my son, fearing she had attacked him.  Luckily it was the 50 lb dog Thunder, who was in it with Rosie.  Rosie overpowered Thunder in a heartbeat and had him pinned and was just about to clamp on his throat when I screamed loud enough to get her attention.  He ran away limping.  

She was the sweetest dog, but all it took to set off her killer instinct was a normal old food fight.  I shudder to think what had my son been closer and she focused on him instead.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 7, 2016)

lbzdually said:


> Well, I just had a episode with that super sweet pit that showed up at my house.  My in-laws dog was up here and food was put out just outside my garage.  My son was out there just about 20 ft away and I was in the garage and I heard the fight start.  I screamed at my son, fearing she had attacked him.  Luckily it was the 50 lb dog Thunder, who was in it with Rosie.  Rosie overpowered Thunder in a heartbeat and had him pinned and was just about to clamp on his throat when I screamed loud enough to get her attention.  He ran away limping.
> 
> She was the sweetest dog, but all it took to set off her killer instinct was a normal old food fight.  I shudder to think what had my son been closer and she focused on him instead.




Clearly the other dog's fault.  I'm sure Rosie wouldn't harm a fly.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

Two dogs, Put food out, it's all the pit bull's fault.

Pit bulls are not responsible for every mindless act in their vicinity.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 7, 2016)

mtr3333 said:


> Pits as a breed are not bad. Some of them have bad habits they were taught.



Maybe not, but only 6% of the dogs in America are pits, and they still account for nearly 3/4 of the serious dog attacks and deaths year after year after year. Wonder why it ain't pugs or English setters? Why don't people teach those bad habits to other breeds?




mtr3333 said:


> yep it appears the most thought out conclusions turn back to learned behavior and owners instead of just a rash generalization.



Totally disagree. The only folks who say that are pit owners who violently oppose any opinion that differs with their own, even in the face of overwhelming, plain, easy-to-see evidence. I could find news stories of 100 pit attacks in a few minutes where the quote "they have always been so sweet and lovable, I never thought they would hurt anybody" comes up. Denying scientific evidence based on emotion is not a rational, thought out conclusion. 

As for "learned behavior," I wonder why hundreds of people supposedly train their family pet pitbulls to have aggressive, deadly behavior, but hardly nobody ever manages to train the same kind of behavior to their golden retriever or redbone hound? There is a pattern, A very obvious one. To deny it shows me all I need to know about that person and their grasp of reality.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> Two dogs, Put food out, it's all the pit bull's fault.
> 
> Pit bulls are not responsible for every mindless act in their vicinity.



I can put food out for two dachshunds or beagles, and one won't kill the other. I wonder why that is? The denial of facts and evidence just amazes me sometimes.


----------



## GoldDot40 (Jan 7, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> How bout YOU don't spin it. Comparing an animal (a living organism) to an inanimate object is absolutely idiotic.
> 
> I've told the story before. My in-laws have always had pits. These dogs have a better upbringing that most kids. They're spoiled and have (IMO) fairly obedient training. If these dogs could speak, 'yes sir and no sir' would probably be in their vocabulary. My in-laws also used to babysit my oldest daughter...and had never had an issue.
> 
> ...



I'm still waiting on somebody here who is blaming the dogs' owners and insisting these dogs HAD to be neglected or taught to be aggressive to explain why the story above ever happened. I'll bet everything I own that this dog was never abused, neglected or trained to be aggressive like it proved to be that day.

My in-laws had babysat my daughter at their house for over a year and the dog had never shown this behavior before. That particular incident helped me see that I'll never own one.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 7, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> I'm still waiting on somebody here who is blaming the dogs' owners and insisting these dogs HAD to be neglected or taught to be aggressive to explain why the story above ever happened. I'll bet everything I own that this dog was never abused, neglected or trained to be aggressive like it proved to be that day.
> 
> My in-laws had babysat my daughter at their house for over a year and the dog had never shown this behavior before. That particular incident helped me see that I'll never own one.



You're wasting your breath. Repeat after me: pitbulls are sweet and lovable. They are not genetically programmed for aggressiveness. They are the victims of a media conspiracy. 

Now, don't that feel better? You are now "rational."


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

You can chum the water around a Great White that otherwise has no interest in you, but if you excite it to bite, it can maim and kill. If you chum the water around a Sand shark it might still get excited and bite, but probably won't remove your arm. 

Kill all Great Whites when you see one, because you never know. Your kid swimming is the same as chum.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> You can chum the water around a Great White that otherwise has no interest in you, but if you excite it to bite, it can maim and kill. If you chum the water around a Sand shark it might still get excited and bite, but probably won't remove your arm.
> 
> Kill all Great Whites when you see one, because you never know. Your kid swimming is the same as chum.



Huh???


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> You can chum the water around a Great White that otherwise has no interest in you, but if you excite it to bite, it can maim and kill. If you chum the water around a Sand shark it might still get excited and bite, but probably won't remove your arm.
> 
> Kill all Great Whites when you see one, because you never know. Your kid swimming is the same as chum.



You can chum the water all you want around a tarpon, redfish, or seatrout; but it won't bite you at all. I wonder what the difference is?


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can chum the water all you want around a tarpon, redfish, or seatrout; but it won't bite you at all. I wonder what the difference is?



There are large breeds of sharks in the ocean. Don't swim there, they will get you. 

Just swim with the tarpon.

Because something could happen, 240 times in 10 years you must be afraid and avoid it ever happening to you. Be afraid of nature and the world. 100% death rate.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Huh???



Sorry, too complicated for you.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> Sorry, too complicated for you.



Complicated ain't the word.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

My lab almost licked someone half to death.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> My lab almost licked someone half to death.



With the labs I've known it's the tail wagging that's dangerous.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> With the labs I've known it's the tail wagging that's dangerous.



Yep, that too!


----------



## srb (Jan 7, 2016)

Went to meet a new client today,She had two blue pits...One female/Male:::She had them outside when I arrived,She said let me go put my pups up.She had a new 6/7 ft privacy fence installed .Maybe she wanted them for security reasons:::...:::


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 7, 2016)

deermaster13 said:


> UOTE=tree cutter 08;9944466]You can tell a lot about a person by the shoes he wears. You also can tell a lot about a person my the dogs he has.



 Seen you post before, surprised that come from you. Yes I own a pit. Each their own. Bad dogs every breed.[/QUOTE]

Don't mean anything bad by what I said but just can tell. Also tell a lot by what people drive and what the wear. My aunt and uncle have always had some goofy mixed dogs and it fits them. Wife's grampa has a ton of coon hounds and jack Russell's. He likes to hunt. People with pits, rots, and ect like the protective aspect of them in my opinion.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Seen you post before, surprised that come from you. Yes I own a pit. Each their own. Bad dogs every breed.



Don't mean anything bad by what I said but just can tell. Also tell a lot by what people drive and what the wear. My aunt and uncle have always had some goofy mixed dogs and it fits them. Wife's grampa has a ton of coon hounds and jack Russell's. He likes to hunt. People with pits, rots, and ect like the protective aspect of them in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, you can tell about a person by the shoes they wear, clothes they wear, and what they drive? 

Man, what an awesome ability you have!


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 7, 2016)

I dress for the conditions I anticipate encountering. Not to impress. I wear shoes or boots to protect my feet and/or my ankles and shins, and don't care the least what anyone else thinks. I drive a vehicle that does all the chores I expect to attempt, as long as it's red. If you judge me based on external covering you will completely misjudge me. And anyone else you encounter.


----------



## Crickett (Jan 7, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> My lab almost licked someone half to death.



 


NOYDB said:


> With the labs I've known it's the tail wagging that's dangerous.



My 100lb lab is dangerous around fish tanks. He almost took out our 75g salt water tank once with his hind end.


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 7, 2016)

Wow!!! I'm trying to take some of this in, I now understand what emotional rational is.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> I dress for the conditions I anticipate encountering. Not to impress. I wear shoes or boots to protect my feet and/or my ankles and shins, and don't care the least what anyone else thinks. I drive a vehicle that does all the chores I expect to attempt, as long as it's red. If you judge me based on external covering you will completely misjudge me. And anyone else you encounter.



Never know when a Chi wa wa is going to attack.....it could happen.


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 7, 2016)

Y'all taking it personal! If I see someone wearing camo my guess is they like to hunt. If I see someone wearing a suit and tie to work, my guess is they have a office job. U don't see PETA suporters wearing camo do ya? If I see a Prius on the road with obuma stickers on the back well?


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Y'all taking it personal! If I see someone wearing camo my guess is they like to hunt. If I see someone wearing a suit and tie to work, my guess is they have a office job. U don't see PETA suporters wearing camo do ya? If I see a Prius on the road with obuma stickers on the back well?



It has nothing to do with personal, tree cutter. Think about the blanket statement you made.

Whether someone wears camo and likes to hunt, or wears a suit and works in an office tells you nothing about the person.

I wear crocs and sox, what does that tell you about me....I ain't scared of Chi wa wa's ?


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 7, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Y'all taking it personal! If I see someone wearing camo my guess is they like to hunt. If I see someone wearing a suit and tie to work, my guess is they have a office job. U don't see PETA suporters wearing camo do ya? If I see a Prius on the road with obuma stickers on the back well?



I know what you meant, our personalities dictate how we dress, how we wear our beards, the vehicles we drive, even down to the pets we have, don't take it personally, remember this is the land of the easily offended.


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 7, 2016)

According to my wife I guess you weird like me then, i don't wear crocs  but have wore flip flops with socks


----------



## The mtn man (Jan 7, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> According to my wife I guess you weird like me then, i don't wear crocs  but have wore flip flops with socks



Yea, I would think if you saw me pull up to the Walmart and get out of my truck, you would pretty much have me figured.


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 7, 2016)

The PB don't care how your dressed


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 7, 2016)

cklem said:


> Yea, I would think if you saw me pull up to the Walmart and get out of my truck, you would pretty much have me figured.



Yep. You know what I mean! Same way I can usually tell how picky someone will be to work for when I pull up in their yard to do a job. I always hate to see a yard so clean you could eat off of it. Gona make our job tough that day. Fellow that works for me is about the best judge of character that I've seen. He can figure someone out pretty quick which is a good trait to have this day and time.


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 7, 2016)

cklem said:


> I know what you meant, our personalities dictate how we dress, how we wear our beards, the vehicles we drive, even down to the pets we have, don't take it personally, remember this is the land of the easily offended.



No one here is offended, but to make a blanket statement like that is ridiculous. 

I've known people that many would have misjudged simply because of their appearance, and they would have been dead wrong!


----------



## TerryGwinnett (Jan 13, 2016)

Sorry, y'all, but the premise of this thread is flawed. Her dog's not a pit bull. It's just a mutt that resembles a pit bull. She also keeps it on a leash. You can go on and argue about the breed, but nobody was in any danger from my friend's mutt.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 16, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Yep. You know what I mean! Same way I can usually tell how picky someone will be to work for when I pull up in their yard to do a job. I always hate to see a yard so clean you could eat off of it. Gona make our job tough that day. Fellow that works for me is about the best judge of character that I've seen. He can figure someone out pretty quick which is a good trait to have this day and time.



Being judgmental is Not necessarily a good trait! https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bringing-sex-focus/201204/whos-judmental-five-key-symptoms


----------



## mtr3333 (Jan 16, 2016)

shakey gizzard said:


> Being judgmental is Not necessarily a good trait! https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bringing-sex-focus/201204/whos-judmental-five-key-symptoms



You know you can tell a lazy slacker who immediately complains about having to do a good job when he rolls up to the obvious high standard he'd rather not meet!


----------



## Jeff C. (Jan 16, 2016)

shakey gizzard said:


> being judgmental is not necessarily a good trait! https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bringing-sex-focus/201204/whos-judmental-five-key-symptoms





mtr3333 said:


> you know you can tell a lazy slacker who immediately complains about having to do a good job when he rolls up to the obvious high standard he'd rather not meet!




lol


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jan 17, 2016)

shakey gizzard said:


> Being judgmental is Not necessarily a good trait! https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bringing-sex-focus/201204/whos-judmental-five-key-symptoms



Glad your a better person than me! Thanks for not judging me


----------



## sinclair1 (Jan 17, 2016)

mtr3333 said:


> You know you can tell a lazy slacker who immediately complains about having to do a good job when he rolls up to the obvious high standard he'd rather not meet!



Don't get me started  6 companies before I got the chimney done, and even you turned me down.

You say 14' wide and 40' tall......click


----------



## jiminbogart (Jan 18, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> Go to check out at Lowes, lady in front of me has Pit Bull not holding even the leash as she signs her CC.
> 
> Made me uncomfortable period.
> 
> ...



Lowes in Athens.






​


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 19, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Y'all taking it personal! If I see someone wearing camo my guess is they like to hunt. If I see someone wearing a suit and tie to work, my guess is they have a office job. U don't see PETA suporters wearing camo do ya? If I see a Prius on the road with obuma stickers on the back well?





tree cutter 08 said:


> Glad your a better person than me! Thanks for not judging me



Don't take it personal! It was just a "blanket" statement!


----------



## grizzlyblake (Jan 19, 2016)

It does seem strange that some folks refuse to acknowledge that certain dogs act certain ways. 

Beagles are more inclined than bulldogs to chase rabbits.
Labs are more inclined than yorkies to retrieve ducks.
Pitbulls are more inclined to attack than basset hounds.

The AKC has groups for the breeds - Sporting, Hounds, Working, Herding, etc. They are all behavior driven. These dogs have been purposely bred to act certain ways and do certain things. To deny that is a pretty strong suspension of disbelief. 



Anyway, I'm more concerned with why people insist on bringing their dogs shopping with them in a store that isn't a dog store. It has become very common in recent years. I suppose it's kind of like wearing pajama pants out in public.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 19, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> Anyway, I'm more concerned with why people insist on bringing their dogs shopping with them in a store that isn't a dog store.



SOP these days. They are so special that what they want is sooooo much more important then what any one else may want. They want to take a dog, of any breed with them, instead of leaving the dog at home. They are going to do what they want.


----------



## grizzlyblake (Jan 19, 2016)

Yes, and folks like that are pretty much a protected class since everyone is petrified to chance saying something to them and ending up on the 6 o'clock news painted as a bigot.

I saw a woman in Publix a while back with a small dog riding in her shopping cart in the produce section. No employee would say anything.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 19, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> I saw a woman in Publix a while back with a small dog riding in her shopping cart in the produce section. No employee would say anything.



Bud, dish. Was it Paris Hilton or Kim K?


----------



## Big Foot (Jan 19, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> SOP these days. They are so special that what they want is sooooo much more important then what any one else may want. They want to take a dog, of any breed with them, instead of leaving the dog at home. They are going to do what they want.



Bingo!


----------



## grizzlyblake (Jan 19, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> Bud, dish. Was it Paris Hilton or Kim K?



It was Canton. Probably more like a Peggy, Wanda, or Debbie.


----------



## toyota4x4h (Jan 19, 2016)

I take mine places with me..like tractor supply or local stores like sporting goods. Never the grocery store though that's a bit over the top even for a dog lover like me.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 19, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> Going off the grid keeps popping up of late...all I need is
> 
> cable, internet, $$, woman, grocery store, arrows, bow shop, boat mechanic, timeshare in the keys
> 
> what am I missing?




Time to start a new thread. Unless you plan to take your pitbull.


----------



## tween_the_banks (Jan 19, 2016)

I'm not going say much on this, but, as an Animal Control Officer, when I pull up in to a yard while responding to an aggressive dog call and I see any "guard" breed, the entire situation is heightened. 
I've had some of the meanest, nastiest dogs in my county trying to eat me alive with only a catch pole for protection. NCHILLBILLY's assessment was pretty accurate as far as my training and experience is concerned.
I've been dog bitten 3 times (2 before I started working at Animal Control) and all 3 were bulldog breeds.
However, with all that being said, I've seen no heightened pattern with guard breeds in correlation with dog bites throughout the county. They really don't seem to bite more often. What _is_ scary about guard breed bites though, is the severity of the bites. Most guard breed bites are hard to look at. Other breed bites are mild, usually from misdirected aggression or from being startled or bothered while eating.

What I've learned since working at Animal Control is to treat all dogs as if they want to bite you and even after you get to know the dog, always remember that they still _can_ bite you and remain assertive. Never show fear or weakness.


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## grizzlyblake (Jan 19, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> I take mine places with me..like tractor supply or local stores like sporting goods. Never the grocery store though that's a bit over the top even for a dog lover like me.



Do those stores invite you to bring in your dog? I've never noticed anything like that at Tractor Supply.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 19, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> Do those stores invite you to bring in your dog? I've never noticed anything like that at Tractor Supply.



Tractor supply has a treat box at the counter they give your dogs if you bring them with you. My dogs are apart of the family sorry that some of you seem to think on a chain or in a lot 24/7 is how your supposed to treat an animal.


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## NOYDB (Jan 19, 2016)

A dog should be trained. But so should the owner.


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## sinclair1 (Jan 19, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Tractor supply has a treat box at the counter they give your dogs if you bring them with you. My dogs are apart of the family sorry that some of you seem to think on a chain or in a lot 24/7 is how your supposed to treat an animal.



Mine has dentist appointments and gets mail


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## mtr3333 (Jan 20, 2016)

NOYDB said:


> A dog should be trained. But so should the owner.



Dogs are trained and so is the owner. Some well trained and others poorly...


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 20, 2016)

If anyones ever had a blue heeler they are one of the smartest dog breeds out there. My 2 will stay in the bed of my truck untied if I tell them to even if dogs people cats horses anything walks by lol. They listen better than a lot of my friends kids ha! 
There are places you cant/shouldn't take a dog and Im not one of the dog owners who think they are above anyone. Certain places I take mine bec they love getting out and meeting ppl and other dogs. A social life/training for a dog is a HUGE thing and if they are socialized I find most that are are very friendly towards all animals. Imo


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## Big Foot (Jan 20, 2016)

sinclair1 said:


> Mine has dentist appointments and gets mail


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 20, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> Do those stores invite you to bring in your dog? I've never noticed anything like that at Tractor Supply.



The Tractor Supply here has a traveling vet clinic set up inside the store every month where you can get rabies shots, flea medication, shots, wormer, etc. There is a line of dogs out the door sometimes.


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## grizzlyblake (Jan 20, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Tractor supply has a treat box at the counter they give your dogs if you bring them with you. My dogs are apart of the family sorry that some of you seem to think on a chain or in a lot 24/7 is how your supposed to treat an animal.



That's kind of a pot shot there. I spent probably close to $20k last year on my four dogs getting dental work, fancy boarding, etc. They live cushier lives than most people. 

I just don't take them into stores.  I would consider PetSmart, and clearly Tractor Supply does the same thing. However, I wouldn't consider taking them into a Lowe's or other non-dog store just because nobody will say anything. To me it's a respect thing. I'm not going to assume a business wants my animals inside unless they specifically request it.


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## toyota4x4h (Jan 20, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> That's kind of a pot shot there. I spent probably close to $20k last year on my four dogs getting dental work, fancy boarding, etc. They live cushier lives than most people.
> 
> I just don't take them into stores.  I would consider PetSmart, and clearly Tractor Supply does the same thing. However, I wouldn't consider taking them into a Lowe's or other non-dog store just because nobody will say anything. To me it's a respect thing. I'm not going to assume a business wants my animals inside unless they specifically request it.



Same mine don't go anywhere that isn't at least somewhat dog related.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 20, 2016)

Some folks forget that dogs ain't people. I love my dogs to death, and have them spoiled rotten, but they are still dogs, and nowhere near the human members of the family in importance.


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## The mtn man (Jan 20, 2016)

I'll be honest, it don't bother me to see a dog in Lowes or Home depot, as long as it is subdued somehow, I will say, if I see a dog in the produce dept. or anywhere in a grocery store, I'm leaving. I don't want your animal sneezing or CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored all around food that I'm going to buy. As for 2x4s that's different. Theres a reason that shirts and shoes are required.


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## The mtn man (Jan 20, 2016)

sorry, sneezing or peeing around food.


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## Big Foot (Jan 20, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Same mine don't go anywhere that isn't at least somewhat dog related.



^^^^^^^^^^this


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## elfiii (Jan 20, 2016)

We take our black lab to Lowes all the time. Everybody loves him and he loves everybody. Black dogs rule!


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## Patriot44 (Jan 20, 2016)

```

```



elfiii said:


> We take our black lab to Lowes all the time. Everybody loves him and he loves everybody. Black dogs rule!



All labs rule!


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## Mtn Hunter (Jan 22, 2016)

lbzdually said:


> Her 'owner', said that we can bring her  to him if she's bothering us and that he will chain her to a tree.   That's why I have been in contact with someone who specializes in pit rescues to try and find her a good home.  We've got a few mouse slaying cats who she is terrorizing and we need them because we live in a field, so she has to go.



So is she "terrorizing" the cats because her genetic blueprint tells her to or dis someone train her to be a cat terrorizer?


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## Mtn Hunter (Jan 22, 2016)

grizzlyblake said:


> Anyway, I'm more concerned with why people insist on bringing their dogs shopping with them in a store that isn't a dog store. It has become very common in recent years. I suppose it's kind of like wearing pajama pants out in public.



This!!  I dont think any breed should be outlawed because if you outlaw a pitbull you can outlaw a bluetick, however I dont take my Blue dog into Lowes and if you take a pitbull or a yorkie in and it bites someone or causes trouble you should be responsible for every penny of damages it caused. I still own my dogs Im not a  "pet parent" and just like I shouldnt have to dodge your runnin screaming youngun I shouldnt have to dodge a dog bite while im shopping.


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## zx12hoss (Jan 23, 2016)

I can't really agree with pit bull thing. I have found there is 3 things you can't change people's mind about it pit bulls gun and motorcycles so don't waste my time. But on one of your points is getting out of hand is this service animal business. When you have people claiming it's a service animal so they can take it in to stores and restaurants is crazy. I think it's going to end up in more regulations for the disabled who actually needs them.


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## obligated (Jan 24, 2016)

My son has a Pitbull Kennel.TOPDOGBULLIES.Dont judge the breed.I have years with these very loyal but gassy dogs.Great with kids and other animals.


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## Big Foot (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm judging the breed - darn skippy I am.  No thank you here for me and mine


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 24, 2016)

love my grandbabies to much to allow a breed that is known to kill children around my house.  So, no pits, shepherds, dobermans, rotties, malinios, or such.

A lab might drown them in slobber, but he won't attack them


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## nickel back (Jan 25, 2016)

y'all don't drive any where, you just might get killed, sell that 4 wheel thing its a danger,you never know what might happen.


just thought I would stop by and and poke at the fire a little bit


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 26, 2016)

Here's some more made-up media bias, from a couple days ago in NC. Another kid DEAD because of the neighbor's adorable harmless pitbull. I'm sure it's all lies from people trying to discredit these sweet, lovable animals. I find it unfathomable that folks keep defending these dogs when this story keeps happening over and over and over. And people JOKING about it. I'm sure there's a good excuse, and I can't wait to hear it. Imagine if this was your kid? http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/31043487/2-children-attacked-by-dog-in-lumberton-7-year-old-killed


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## NOYDB (Jan 26, 2016)

Your kid

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/bubble-boy-suit.html


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 26, 2016)

Sweet, joke about a 7-year old with his throat ripped out. And my kid is in the military at the moment, thank you, and he is not a durn bit of your business. Go play with your pitbull.


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## glynr329 (Jan 26, 2016)

I hate a pit bull and they are dangerous. I can promise you I know one right now that I will bet you will not walk up to and hug or pet. When an owner has to get a bat out to take him out of the crate scared he will attack them. No the dog has never been abused but is mean. Serious question would you take your kids over to play at that house with their pretty little dog in the house. I do not care who you are and what kind of dog you have if it bites someone you need to pay. If that person is scared or whatever you should pay them for damages. Period! The problem is no one has to liable but one day they will. 

I grew up with a German Shepard that went everwhere I went would not hurt anyone until one day. Tore my brother law up. If it was a kid probable could have killed them and I honestly wouldn't want to go through that.


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## mattech (Jan 26, 2016)

I'm totally against pit bulls along with several other dogs. We have a house in our neighborhood that has a pit bull on an electric fence. The Nieghbor hood is small so everyone walks, no one walks tlby this house since the new neighbors moved in. I no longer let my kids walk to thier friends house due to this dog. This dog is in full attack mode while you walk by, barking, drooling showing teeth. My daughter is friends with this Nieghbors kid and we know they got this dog as a puppy. The owner won't let thier kids play in the yard without them being outside or the dog in thier fence. 

No matter how nice these dogs are raised they were breed to attack, when instict kicks in, that's what happens.


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## NOYDB (Jan 26, 2016)

glynr329 said:


> Tore my brother law up.]/QUOTE]
> 
> Did he deserve it?


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## mattech (Jan 26, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You can raise a beagle however you want to, but it's still gonna like the smell of a rabbit. It amazes me that folks don't understand that different breeds of dogs have been selectively bred for generations for specific reasons, and different breeds of dogs behave differently and have different instincts. Some breeds of dogs are much more aggressive than others on average, it's a fact, but folks want to deny it. It has nothing to do with how you raise it. Try raising a german shephard to point quail, or a bluetick to not trail a coon when he smells it.




To be on a forum full of hunters that have a breed of dog for every single style of hunting there is, this post should take away any type of argument of anyone about pit bulls not being dangerous. 

These dogs were bred to attack, no matter how well they were raised that instinct is still there. 

Guns weren't raised to shoot people they are a pice of metal and do not make choices. Dogs have thier own free will, and comparing the two is apples and oranges.


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## grouper throat (Jan 26, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Seriously?  Dogs from the same litter.  Some you have no doubt would bite a person, but a litter mate with exactly the same genes but is "one of the sweetest dogs you've seen" you don't think would bite someone?  Just because it's been treated like a baby?



Yes, I believe most of it is how you raise them as to WHOM they will attack if they do. No overruling the natural tendencies as mentioned before, I hunt hounds that are made to chase game and pits are made to fight/attack. The female my MIL raised is protective of the family, yes, but I doubt it'll bite anyone IN the family as I should have clarified. There's a reason the UPS and Fedex guys drop the packages half way up the driveway and don't walk up to the house


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## mtr3333 (Jan 26, 2016)

Sinclair walks his pitbull in everybody else's yard


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## mtr3333 (Jan 26, 2016)

pit bulls will dent your lawn


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## mtr3333 (Jan 26, 2016)

hope he ages that meat properly


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## Patriot44 (Jan 31, 2016)

We hiked six miles today and passed several folks with dogs, not unusual and we always stop and chat and pet the dogs. Well today a couple walked up on us exiting the trail with two pits, one on a leash and one not. The owners didn't look like typical pit owners, so probably rescue pits. You better believe that I made sure that my kids didn't stop and pet those kid eaters. I am also a firm believer that pit owners should carry a million clam insurance policy so when their dog eats a kid that the medical bills of said kid are covered.


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## Big Foot (Feb 3, 2016)

Patriot44 said:


> We hiked six miles today and passed several folks with dogs, not unusual and we always stop and chat and pet the dogs. Well today a couple walked up on us exiting the trail with two pits, one on a leash and one not. The owners didn't look like typical pit owners, so probably rescue pits. You better believe that I made sure that my kids didn't stop and pet those kid eaters. I am also a firm believer that pit owners should carry a million clam insurance policy so when their dog eats a kid that the medical bills of said kid are covered.



One on a leash one not.   Nuff said


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## The mtn man (Feb 3, 2016)

#387 about a pit bull at lowes.


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## CHven (Feb 3, 2016)

I have always liked drivey, working type dogs. Not always necessarily large or powerful dogs; I am happy to have found a great Patterdale breeder that has excellent hunters, thanks to a friend. I do like some of the more powerful large breeds, though I like the size of the Pit Bull better, I'm not keen on having a large dog much. With the main exception of livestock guardian dogs to guard stock. There was really no way to get around having large to giant size dogs. 

This is the main post that caught my eye in this thread. 



DouglasB. said:


> I'm just here to say, that if you think that Pit's were bred to babysit kids, you're delusional. Pit bulls weren't referenced as Nanny Dogs (but not in those terms) until 1971, when the Strafordshire Terrier Club of America wanted the AKC to recognize Pits as an actual breed. The term "Nanny Dogs" wasn't first used until the late 1980's.



It is a ridiculous notion, dogs should not be considered "nannies"/ "baby sitters". Pit Bulls specifically were bred for pit fighting, it is a fact. Some owners kept them for companions or other purposes, but most were bred for fighting. I think the nanny dog being used in the 1980s sounds accurate. Though I think you must be mistaken about 1971 reference to gain acceptance. The AKC agreed to accept Pit Bulls for register in 1935 and officially recognized them in 1936, registering the 1st Pit Bulls as Staffordshire Terriers. 



> But... if you go back to 1853... it was written that pit bulls were decent pets for males, but to viscous and violent for females.
> 
> Referenced again in 1908 as a viscous fighting machine.
> 
> ...



That makes sense in that era. Men were men, women were women. Pit Bulls were fighting dogs, that wouldn't be too "lady like". Women did not swear, spit, wear pants, ect. Does this mean they were actually "too vicious and violent" for women? No, it was simply the times. If an animal is truly vicious, there isn't a gender exception to their handling. 
I think the fact that they are a fighting breed they would be presumed vicious, they would also display that with other dogs. So the fighting machine reference makes sense. Dog aggression is not really wanted in pet dogs, can be problematic. Though 100yrs ago some people kept them as pets and bred them for other purposes at that time, for some people they considered the fighting dog a safe companion too. I think that those dangerous to people were probably far less back then. Though the population was also less, likely more stability when it came to humans. People also fought other breeds of dogs during this time, while it could be looked down upon, it was far less unacceptable. It is ironic Bull Terrier people did not want them to be called Am Bull Terrier or associated with them when they boasted of their dogs fighting ability and of course kings of the rat pits. 



> But here are some cold hard facts for you...
> 
> Pibulls make up 6% of the overall pet population, but make up 68% of attacks, and 52% of deaths.
> 
> ...



The majority of people bitten only suffer minor injury. Thankfully, Pit Bulls don't carry out 68% of ALL bites! They make up 6% of the dog population, 4.8 million Pit Bulls. You believe over half, 2.7 million have bit people? Yet most dogs/breeds that are frequent biters are other dogs, usually smaller breeds, thankfully, not causing significant damage. 
Pit Bulls are not dangerous because they bite the most often, it is because they cause the *most damage more often*, that people consider them more dangerous. 
Clifton study, over 30yr period, states that Pit Bulls (and Pit mixes) are the perpetrator of 68% of disfiguring attacks and fatalities, which is 3,672. The number to end in fatality is said to be 309 (which is 52% of fatal attacks).  
These stats are a cause for concern, but a far cry from MILLIONS. False statistics are not cold hard facts.  
I can't find how many of the 300+ deaths were children. Only that out of the 3600+ a little over half were children. On average about 122 serious attacks per year, rounding up 16.9 to 17 resulting in death per year. If the population is usually around 4.8 mill, that's less than 1% of Pit's involved in these attacks. It's a tiny, tiny faction of a 1% percent. Using 30yr pop. with average lifespan of 10yr, 0.02% of Pit's caused these attacks. It's still not acceptable, no dog attacks are (unless it's saving the owners life), it is also a horrific way to die. 

To sustain that population it would seem they must be bred at an alarming rate like other popular breeds, you are going to see more unstable dogs and unfortunately attacks are not going to decrease. 

As for guns it can be hard to find accurate information, the news reported (along with politicians) that 10,000 children a year are injured by guns. This is NOT true! In 2012, 411 children 14yr & under were killed by guns. So more children were killed by guns in 1yr than Pit Bulls killed people (both children and adults) in 30yrs. 
Last year for children 3yr and under, 13 killed themselves with guns, 18 injured themselves, 10 killed injured others and 2 killed others. I think this is highly disturbing, irresponsible gun ownership that threatens our rights. Guns can't think on their own like a dog, but when the parent/gun owner lacks common sense, just like a dog the results can be tragic. 
So as with guns, with dogs it is in part on the owner. They are supposed to be responsible for the dog. There are myths "it's all in how you raise them" is a common one. But the owner is often at fault in most cases and all other dog bites as well, not just when it comes to Pit Bulls. Maybe you haven't dealt with clueless owners or witness first hand. 
Yes dog never did anything like "that" before, of course he didn't maul a kid. Their dog can be giving all the singles in the world and they don't want to hear it, because their dog just isn't capable of biting their child in their fantasy world. Some even growled at children or family but claim they are "not aggressive" and would never actually bite. What do they think growling is? It's a warning and an aggressive reaction, it often happens before right before a bite, but a dog might give warnings over long period of time before they finally do bite. Considering how many of these (dog- all breeds) owners exist, I can completely understand people being more concerned about large, powerful, driven breeds. You don't know the dog, their genetics, their owners knowledge or judgement, ect. That dog is more likely to severely injure or kill you if it attacks.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

look up
Weela the pitbull hero

how bout popsicle
http://www.goodpitbulls.com/blog/famous-pit-bulls/popsicle/

how about D-Boy
A young Pit Bull named D-Boy was rescued form an abusive home by Roberta Trawick and her family in 2008. Only a few months later, D-Boy showed amazing bravery and loyalty defending his new family from an armed intruder.

Roberta and her family were relaxing on the living room couch in her Oklahoma City home one night, when a man with a gun broke down her front door and ordered the family to get on the floor. D-Boy, sensing his family was in danger, charged into the room and lunged at the home invader. The man fired his gun, hitting D-Boy three times, twice in the head. But D-Boy kept after him. Spooked, the attacker ran away. The family got up and called for help and when police arrived they took D-Boy to an emergency vet hospital.

D-Boy miraculously survived the attack. His vet said if he had not had such a hard skull he would have likely been killed.

When the community heard about D-Boy's courageous actions, they donated funds to help cover his medical expenses. A few months later, a deserving D-Boy won the People's Hero award at the Humane Society of the United States' 2nd Annual Dogs of Valor Awards.

Said Roberta, "That dog saved my life and my family. Without D-Boy, that guy could have shot me and my family."

Lilly
 who lost a leg after being struck by a freight train while pulling her unconscious owner from the train tracks.
http://www.examiner.com/article/lil...-life-to-rescue-her-owner-from-a-moving-train


The list can go on,stop looking for the bad in everything. 


Some of yall  need a bubble to stay in.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> look up
> Weela the pitbull hero
> 
> how bout popsicle
> ...



D-boy may very well maul and kill the neighbor's kids as well as eating burglars. Read a couple of the links to news stories I posted about pits killing kids, then put more jokes and smiley faces in your post. Dead kids ain't funny, and there are a lot of them caused by those dogs you're defending.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> D-boy may very well maul and kill the neighbor's kids as well as eating burglars. Read a couple of the links to news stories I posted about pits killing kids, then put more jokes and smiley faces in your post. Dead kids ain't funny, and there are a lot of them caused by those dogs you're defending.



are you stupid?where do see/read me making a joke.


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## Da Possum (Feb 4, 2016)




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## northgeorgiasportsman (Feb 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> are you stupid?where do see/read me making a joke.



Here maybe?



nickel back said:


> y'all don't drive any where, you just might get killed, sell that 4 wheel thing its a danger,you never know what might happen.
> 
> 
> just thought I would stop by and and poke at the fire a little bit


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## oops1 (Feb 4, 2016)

That'll do it


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> are you stupid?where do see/read me making a joke.



No, I am not stupid. I am not a genius by any means, but I am literate. I also am not blind, and can see things such as this in your post:



> Some of yall need a bubble to stay in.



No, what we need is for people who choose to own pitbulls to not let them run around and attack folks and kill the neighbor's kids, and to quit making excuses for them when they do; and quit turning a blind eye to the violent potential of the breed and act like someone who was mauled or whose kid was killed by the neighbor's or their own pit is a delusional liar who is spreading misinformation out of ignorance of the lovable-ness of pitbulls.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> No, I am not stupid. I am not a genius by any means, but I am literate. I also am not blind, and can see things such as this in your post:
> 
> 
> 
> No, what we need is for people who choose to own pitbulls to not let them run around and attack folks and kill the neighbor's kids, and to quit making excuses for them when they do; and quit turning a blind eye to the violent potential of the breed and act like someone who was mauled or whose kid was killed by the neighbor's or their own pit is a delusional liar who is spreading misinformation out of ignorance of the lovable-ness of pitbulls.





The( some of yall need a bubble to stay in) is not a joke, its the truth. I have read the links you have posted.Your hate towards the Pit is yours and not all. I do not defend the ones that have done bad but I will not condemn them all. I was simply showing that there is good ones out there. I do not have the hate you have. Your closed mine and negative attitude shows.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Here maybe?



not sure where you are going with this. I know you want to take sides with your admin buddy and try to help him out but that is not the post he quoted and said I was joking.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> The( some of yall need a bubble to stay in) is not a joke, its the truth. I have read the links you have posted.Your hate towards the Pit is yours and not all. I do not defend the ones that have done bad but I will not condemn them all. I was simply showing that there is good ones out there. I do not have the hate you have. Your closed mine and negative attitude shows.



How about this: every experience I have ever had with a pit bull in my life has been negative. I have been bitten by a pit that my dad owned when I was a kid, for no reason. I have been treed by a pair of the durn things that had no business being running around loose, and would have mauled me in a heartbeat. The same pair attacked someone and hurt them badly a week later, their owner said they were sweet and loveable. One of my best friends spent months in the hospital after being mauled by one and almost died. A little girl very near where I live was killed by her dad's lovable pit. Another of my friends (who used to sound just like you,) had to shoot his own pit after it killed his other dog and went after his family. There is an attack on the local news almost every week. I can go on and on. 

I have never had this kind of experience with any other breed of dog on a regular basis. I have owned and loved dogs all my life, and have been around all types and breeds. My opinions are formed from personal experience with the durn pits, not from lovey-dovey literature. I am not a person who walks around scared of anything. But I would certainly prefer you to keep your pit in your own house, not out running around.

I am perfectly willing to admit that there are some good pits, as long as you're willing to admit that there are vicious, mean, bad, unpredictable ones. Lots of them. You want to see closed-minded, go look in the mirror. I'm done with this, reasoning with a fence post would be more productive.


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## Patriot44 (Feb 4, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> One on a leash one not.   Nuff said



That was absolutely my first thought.  One of them at the very least had a history.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> How about this: every experience I have ever had with a pit bull in my life has been negative. I have been bitten by a pit that my dad owned when I was a kid, for no reason. I have been treed by a pair of the durn things that had no business being running around loose, and would have mauled me in a heartbeat. One of my best friends spent months in the hospital after being mauled by one and almost died. A little girl very near where I live was killed by her dad's lovable pit. Another of my friends (who used to sound just like you,) had to shoot his own pit after it killed his other dog and went after his family. There is an attack on the local news almost every week. I can go on and on.
> 
> I have never had this kind of experience with any other breed of dog on a regular basis. I have owned and loved dogs all my life, and have been around all types and breeds. My opinions are formed from personal experience with the durn pits, not from lovey-dovey literature. I am not a person who walks around scared of anything. But I would certainly prefer you to keep your pit in your own house, not out running around.
> 
> I am perfectly willing to admit that there are some good pits, as long as you're willing to admit that there are vicious, mean, bad, unpredictable ones. Lots of them. You want to see closed-minded, go look in the mirror. I'm done with this, reasoning with a fence post would be more productive.



I do not own a pit, have been around many though, glad I don't have your luck.

Your just as much as a fence post as I am.

When did I say that there was not vicious, mean, bad, unpredictable ones. I have seen many different breeds of dogs that can be that.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Feb 4, 2016)

We could have one HECK of a ranch with all the fence posts in here.


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## nickel back (Feb 4, 2016)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> We could have one HECK of a ranch with all the fence posts in here.



then some....


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## Johnny 71 (Feb 4, 2016)

Pits need to be kept in the right environment, they are not pets, they are killers, they should never be around kids, and it should be against the law to have them endanger kids, cause mommy and daddy can't figure it out on Their own, I can't understand why anyone would take a chance with a kids life, just to try and prove a point about a dog that everyone knows is dangerous, that's just selfish, and stupid


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## T.P. (Feb 4, 2016)

Johnny 71 said:


> Pits need to be kept in the right environment, they are not pets, they are killers, they should never be around kids, and it should be against the law to have them endanger kids, cause mommy and daddy can't figure it out on Their own, I can't understand why anyone would take a chance with a kids life, just to try and prove a point about a dog that everyone knows is dangerous, that's just selfish, and stupid



Lots of folks just ain't that smart, it's just a fact in the world we live in today. Common sense and work ethic has been bred out of folks over the last 25 years.


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## Jeff C. (Feb 4, 2016)

T.P. said:


> Lots of folks just ain't that smart, it's just a fact in the world we live in today. Common sense and work ethic has been bred out of folks over the last 25 years.



(-) Common sense + (-) work ethic = Dangerous Breed


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## CHven (Feb 4, 2016)

nickel back said:


> The( some of yall need a bubble to stay in) is not a joke, its the truth. I have read the links you have posted.Your hate towards the Pit is yours and not all. I do not defend the ones that have done bad but I will not condemn them all. I was simply showing that there is good ones out there. I do not have the hate you have. Your closed mine and negative attitude shows.



I did not see it as a joke about children being killed. The fact is being killed by a Pit Bull is not likely, on average 17 people per year killed by Pit Blls. I got your point. 30,000 plus people a year killed in car accidents. I am more concerned about myself or children being killed in a car accident, my grand father died in one when I was only 10yrs old. There are other things more likely to kill me than a Pit Bulls also, but I don't worry about those either. I don't live my life worrying every day or living in a bubble, I try not to take undue risk, but somethings are unavoidable (like commuting to work on the roads).  

While Pit Bulls cause more serious attacks or fatalities than other dogs, there is still a small chance of it happening with another breed too. I don't worry about any dogs though really. Same study also showed that most attacks are committed by intact males, no neutered male of any breed has killed anyone. That doesn't mean I'm going to fear intact males. I've seen pro neuter animal rights group use it to fear monger their anti breeding agenda. Most irresponsible owners don't neuter and they are more likely to be careless and also let dogs run at large. That doesn't mean all intact males will be aggressive, are going to bite your child, ect, ect.  



NCHillbilly said:


> How about this: every experience I have ever had with a pit bull in my life has been negative. I have been bitten by a pit that my dad owned when I was a kid, for no reason. I have been treed by a pair of the durn things that had no business being running around loose, and would have mauled me in a heartbeat. The same pair attacked someone and hurt them badly a week later, their owner said they were sweet and loveable. One of my best friends spent months in the hospital after being mauled by one and almost died. A little girl very near where I live was killed by her dad's lovable pit. Another of my friends (who used to sound just like you,) had to shoot his own pit after it killed his other dog and went after his family. There is an attack on the local news almost every week. I can go on and on.



Your experiences are unfortunate and I understand when someone has a negative experience they will form a negative opinion. I have never been bit by a Pit, been bit by other breeds but almost all minor. Only ever had a real injury from a Chow (still have a scar) and can say that I've seen only bad from them, but good ones probably exist. 
They said "were sweet and loveable" clearly they were lying, which I've all too often observed of dog owners. The dogs sound like they each needed a bullet, at minimum a responsible owner not allowing them to endanger others or run at large (even if they were non aggressive there is no reason for them to be running around). I agree that owners need to keep them contained. I actually believe this of other dogs too for a number of reasons.
Another Chow (owned by family friend) bit a boy who tried to pet him, they blamed the kid for reaching over the fence, he didn't like strangers so I some what understand why they thought that way. The dog had seen me for years, but never could I interact with him. Then he started growling at the husband, the dog "just didn't recognize it was him" is what she said was the reason. That would have been a huge warning sign to me, he was testy even with family. They finally had to put him down after their son was not even paying the dog any mind, sitting on the floor in front of the TV when the dog attacked him, sending him to ER. They couldn't believe he would do that even though there was months of prior warning. The dog did the attack, but the owners could have prevented it. Just like the owners of the Pits that treed you and eventually attacked someone.  



> I have never had this kind of experience with any other breed of dog on a regular basis. I have owned and loved dogs all my life, and have been around all types and breeds. My opinions are formed from personal experience with the durn pits, not from lovey-dovey literature. I am not a person who walks around scared of anything. But I would certainly prefer you to keep your pit in your own house, not out running around.



You will find that responsible Pit owners agree with you! There is no excuse to let them run around, leave them in a crappy fence, or on a chain with no barrier. Even if they are absolutely stable it is still negligent. If the dog has a poor temperament IMO it should be euthanized, if the owner won't do that they are responsible to make sure that dog is fully contained at all times. If the dog has a proper temperament, that's wonderful but if they cared about the dog they wouldn't put the dogs life at risk by letting it roam. 



> I am perfectly willing to admit that there are some good pits, as long as you're willing to admit that there are vicious, mean, bad, unpredictable ones. Lots of them. You want to see closed-minded, go look in the mirror. I'm done with this, reasoning with a fence post would be more productive.



The amount of Pits that are unstable, is probably a very small part of the population. Though they seem to be rising, it's hard to get a real idea but judging by more attacks being in the more recent years and personal observation it seems that way. As more and more bad breeders emerge they won't cull an ill tempered dog, some even intentionally breed for it. It is clear when they mix Pits with large guardian breeds, lying calling them Pit Bulls and touting their guard dog ability, that proper temperament went out the window. 

I think all in all, within Pit Bull owners there are two big enemies of the breed and a cause of concern to the people around them. 1 the typically ghetto owners that usually come to mind 2 the fur mommy I raised my dog with kisses so he will never hurt anyone people
Often times these same people also breed their dogs, regardless of aggression issues that can be perpetuated for generations to come.


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