# TSS question



## Flaustin1 (Oct 12, 2014)

Can you really make a legitimate 85 yard gun by having the forcing cone worked and shooting the heavy TSS shot.  I don't turkey hunt much and am just curious.  Ive heard tale of it but would like some first hand info.  Thanks.


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## Lightnrod (Oct 13, 2014)

Don't know how much censorship we'll have on this topic, but I took a longbeard last spring at 81 yrds with just the TSS and no forcing cone work. Watched him come from about 400 yrds and thought he would finish, only to turn. Figured I would let it ride. TSS is plain awesome, straight 9's in that load.


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## Brianf (Oct 13, 2014)

Flaustin1 said:


> Can you really make a legitimate 85 yard gun by having the forcing cone worked and shooting the heavy TSS shot.  I don't turkey hunt much and am just curious.  Ive heard tale of it but would like some first hand info.  Thanks.



NO. Plain and simple.
Taking shot at that yardage is . I respect the turkey more than to "try it" and lose him to the buzzards.


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## hawglips (Oct 13, 2014)

Flaustin1 said:


> Can you really make a legitimate 85 yard gun by having the forcing cone worked and shooting the heavy TSS shot.  I don't turkey hunt much and am just curious.  Ive heard tale of it but would like some first hand info.  Thanks.



Legitimate 85 yard gun?  No.  

To me, a gun's legitimate range is that range at which three things happen: 1) at least 100 pellets in a 10" circle, 2) at least 1.25" of pellet penetration energy, 3) the shooter has the skill to put the core of the pattern on the turkey's head and neck.  (That's much easier said than done at long ranges.)  If 1 and 2 and 3 above come together, then the turkey will be dead 100% of the time.   

Can it kill at 85 yds?  Yes.  But killing at X range does not make it a legitimate combination at X range.  To me, a "legitimate" range is the range at which 1, 2 and 3 are met.

Do I recommend trying it?  No.   Neither do I recommend shooting at 40 yds or 30 yds if 1, 2, and 3 above are not met.


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## Flaustin1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Ok so from what im gathering, the density of the shot is what makes it more lethal.  What about patterns?  Are they noticeably tighter with TSS vs Lead if all the other factors are the same?  And one more thing, is this stuff Non Toxic?


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## GLS (Oct 13, 2014)

The patterns are considerably denser than lead.  However, the Winchester Long Beard load throws a dense pattern, but #6 lead doesn't have the penetration that TSS 9's have.  TSS 9's have the computed penetration slightly better than lead #4's at 60 yards.  TSS 9's have about 367 pellets per ounce compared with lead 4's 136/oz.  Therein lies the magic of Tungsten 9':  better pattern density in lighter loads which allows smaller gauges of lighter weight than 12 gauge.
Is Tungsten toxic?  I wouldn't want a steady diet, but same can be said about eating  lead.  It is considered non-toxic for purposes of waterfowl hunting but unless one duplexes it with steel shot, TSS is not economically practical.


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## Flaustin1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Ah. . . gotcha.  Didn't realize the T in TSS stood for tungsten.  That answers all my questions.  Thanks for the responses folks.


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## CBASS (Oct 13, 2014)

I really wish Federal would make a blend load in their Heavyweight  shells & get rid of the flight control wad!


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## icdedturkes (Oct 13, 2014)

CBASS said:


> I really wish Federal would make a blend load in their Heavyweight  shells & get rid of the flight control wad!



While I agree on the FCW, why a blend load... IMO in a blend load you either are going to have big pellets in their taking up space with penetration you do not need or smaller pellets in there without the penetration needed if you want to take longer shots.. 

Federal should ditch the FCW up the payloads get rid of the #5 load and offer 6,7,7.5 or 7, 7.5, 8s..


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## Flaustin1 (Oct 13, 2014)

What?  Yall diehard turkey hunters are a different breed for sure.  I love federals flight control wad.  It works great with buckshot and the FCW turkey loads pattern better out of my gun than anything else ive tried.


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## GLS (Oct 13, 2014)

A blend load would be more economical than a straight tungsten load.  In a 12 gauge load, 1 oz. lead #4 combined with 3/4 to 7/8 oz. of tungsten 9's would be cheaper to make and sell than a straight load of equivalent weight in tungsten.  T9's wouldn't be legal in all states, but maybe 7 or 8's would be.


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## bucktail (Oct 13, 2014)

2 oz tss#9 is bad to the bone!


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## cowhornedspike (Oct 13, 2014)

GLS said:


> A blend load would be more economical than a straight tungsten load.  In a 12 gauge load, 1 oz. lead #4 combined with 3/4 to 7/8 oz. of tungsten 9's would be cheaper to make and sell than a straight load of equivalent weight in tungsten.  T9's wouldn't be legal in all states, but maybe 7 or 8's would be.



Nonsense.  Just load the 3/4 or 7/8 of TSS 9.  The 1 oz of lead 4's would only add weight and recoil but would add no additional value to the load.


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## GLS (Oct 14, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> Nonsense. .



I don’t know where you are from, but from where I come from one ounce of lead #4's contain 136 pellets.  #9 TSS has the same penetration more or less than lead #4's.   Most and maybe a turkey or two wouldn’t consider an additional 136 pellets of lead #4's in a load nonsense. Furthermore, try cycling a 3/4 oz. load in a Benelli SBE and let us know how that works out for you. But to each, his own.  Mine was just a suggestion as to how to stretch expensive TSS into an effective turkey load at a lower cost.  I haven't shot a 12 in years at a turkey.  BTW, show us one of your kills with 3/4 oz.  of TSS9's.  Here's one of mine. Actually it’s 13/16 oz. in a .410, not a 12 gauge.  I have actually put my money where my mouth is.  Have you?


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## cowhornedspike (Oct 14, 2014)

Yep.  I load Hal's 13/16oz .410 load also and have dead toms to show for it.  I understood what you meant about adding lead to make it a cost effective 12ga load but I see from your pic that you think like I do and don't hunt with such a load and neither will I because those added pellets simply wouldn't add any value for me...just weight and recoil.  Our little swarm of 9's (last batch was 9.5) will do all the work necessary.


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## hawglips (Oct 14, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> The 1 oz of lead 4's would only add weight and recoil but would add no additional value to the load.



This is an interesting point, and one that I have looked into.  I had the thought that a TSS x lead load could be developed which would give an extra wide pattern at close ranges while retaining a tight core pattern at long ranges - needing both the TSS and the lead together in order to accomplish it.

And it worked.  The killing pattern at 20 yds was significantly wider than that of a typical turkey load (needed the lead to get that), with enough core pattern retention to reach out there to TSS range.

20 yds, TSS (1 oz) x lead (1-1/4 oz)





40 yds (same load)





I don't know of anyone actually shooting this load, but it ought to be hard to miss close in with it....


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## GLS (Oct 14, 2014)

Hal, that duplex load is a solution to a problem that exists which is "easy to miss tight" at 20 with straight tss.  A little stout on the shoulder but that's a great pattern at 20 yards.    I'd be curious to know the actual count of #9 tss's inside the 10 ring at 40 yards.   At what distance does lead 7's lose 1.25" penetration?  For hunting purposes, that is as good a pattern as I've seen in htl/lead.


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## cowhornedspike (Oct 14, 2014)

I agree that is a great pattern and therefore conceed the point that added lead can add _some_ value to a hunting load...however I can't think of any reason I would tote the cannon needed to shoot it when my 20 and 410 are such a pleasure to tote.


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## hawglips (Oct 14, 2014)

GLS said:


> Hal, that duplex load is a solution to a problem that exists which is "easy to miss tight" at 20 with straight tss.  A little stout on the shoulder but that's a great pattern at 20 yards.    I'd be curious to know the actual count of #9 tss's inside the 10 ring at 40 yards.



It appeared to me to be almost exclusively TSS in the 10" at 40 yds.  There might have been a few lead 7s, but not many.



GLS said:


> At what distance does lead 7's lose 1.25" penetration?  For hunting purposes, that is as good a pattern as I've seen in htl/lead.



At approx 38 yds, going 1200 fps MV, as per this load.


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## hawglips (Oct 14, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> I agree that is a great pattern and therefore conceed the point that added lead can add _some_ value to a hunting load...however I can't think of any reason I would tote the cannon needed to shoot it when my 20 and 410 are such a pleasure to tote.



   That's why you and I both aren't shooting it. 

My sister for some reason has a terrible time hitting a turkey.  She misses.  And misses.  At the range I watched what she was doing and thought I got her straight.   But then she went out and missed two out of the next three she shot at.   She loses her mind or something in the heat of the moment (though she has no trouble with deer).  

This load would be great for her, if it wasn't for all the recoil that comes with it.


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## Gaswamp (Oct 14, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That's why you and I both aren't shooting it.
> 
> My sister for some reason has a terrible time hitting a turkey.  She misses.  And misses.  At the range I watched what she was doing and thought I got her straight.   But then she went out and missed two out of the next three she shot at.   She loses her mind or something in the heat of the moment (though she has no trouble with deer).
> 
> This load would be great for her, if it wasn't for all the recoil that comes with it.



might want to get your sister to try a red dot.


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## GLS (Oct 14, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> might want to get your sister to try a red dot.



She probably needs camo paint on her gun, too, if she's shooting one of Hal's.


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## hawglips (Oct 14, 2014)

GLS said:


> She probably needs camo paint on her gun, too, if she's shooting one of Hal's.





She likes camo on her guns.  And her husband put on a scope for her.  I suggested a red dot, but he wanted to do that.


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## cowhornedspike (Oct 14, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That's why you and I both aren't shooting it.
> 
> My sister for some reason has a terrible time hitting a turkey.  She misses.  And misses.  At the range I watched what she was doing and thought I got her straight.   But then she went out and missed two out of the next three she shot at.   She loses her mind or something in the heat of the moment (though she has no trouble with deer).
> 
> This load would be great for her, if it wasn't for all the recoil that comes with it.



Got a buddy like that.  After seeing what my 20 would do he had to have one set up the same way, ff3 and all, and then missed several anyway.   Gun shoots in the 300's at 40.  Seems so simple to me, red dot on head, bang, flop.  Not the gun and loads fault for sure.

He gave the 20 to his son and went back to his 12 with EM magblend shoulder killers...no thanks.


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## deast1988 (Oct 16, 2014)

I've seen this TSS on old gobbler where a fella killed one at 100yds.

But they killed deer with #4s or #5s. But the holes were to small for a blood trail.


If I had tss I'd stick to standard shot gun ranges and know you have a legit pea shooter that will wreck havoc on the CNS of any bird you wanted to give a free ride to the kitchen table too.


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## Gadget (Oct 19, 2014)

hawglips said:


> At approx 38 yds, going 1200 fps MV, as per this load.




I use a straight 7pb 1.5oz load in my 20; I consider it a 35yd max load. Killed one out to a ranged 36yds, the others were all less than 30yds.


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## davisd9 (Nov 13, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> While I agree on the FCW, why a blend load... IMO in a blend load you either are going to have big pellets in their taking up space with penetration you do not need or smaller pellets in there without the penetration needed if you want to take longer shots..
> 
> Federal should ditch the FCW up the payloads get rid of the #5 load and offer 6,7,7.5 or 7, 7.5, 8s..



Agree on ditching the FCW.  A load of Fed HW 7s with a more conventional style wad and they would blow the market to pieces.  A load of straight 6s and 7s would punish any bird beyond reasonable shooting distances.  Federal would take over the turkey hunting shells, but for some reason they will not drop that stupid wad.  I thought when the thugs came out without the FCW they would give it a try, but of course not.  Hevi would go down the drain because of their ever changing shell that never seems to produce the same year to year. Oh the possibilities!


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