# Bad news on blackfish!!!!



## Bryannecker (Jan 27, 2011)

I just got back from the so-called, "Public Hearing" at the Pooler, GA-Mighty Eighth Air Force Museum, and guess what:  It is pretty well a given that black fish will be closed as of January 31, 2011.  

That fishery will not be reopened until June.  That's just another straw to break the back of the fishermen in Georgia.  South Atlantic Fishery Management says that overfishing is the reason for this closure.  Does that sound familar?  

There was an assembly of various fishermen who were mad as ole wet hen to say the least.  The only politico who sent a representative was Johnny Isakson.  He seemed to be on the side of the fishermen, but what he will and can do remains to be seen.  

One idea which I had and broached to him was a petition by fishermen in protest of this action and other recent actions of the council.  I will work on the wording and see how it will fly with the powers that be.  

"State nullification" may be the only recourse which we have in this onslought of draconian regulations.  So, my fellow anglers, let me hear from you with any ideas you might have on this matter.  

Capt. Jimmy


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## Altamaha Stalker (Jan 27, 2011)

I agree, it is probably inevitable that this bill will pass.

There needs to be a group of tackle, boat manufacturers and fishermen to get involved in this. If they get a lawsuit to challenge this bill in process, the bill will not be able to go through, so I am told by one more learned than me....

But, with the down economy, maybe no one is wanting to stick their neck out for fear of a corporate "black eye". They are trying to do all they can to move product, and I can understand that.

Sportsmen seem to be loosing footing anymore. We need to get those that benefit from us to band together and stand up for us. They need to understand that we are the ones who make them exist. They, if they band together, with their dollars and lawyers, may can make a difference. They just have to realize that without the market that keeps them afloat, they will sink. Rivalries between companies need to be put aside for the common good of everyone involved. Nobody will buy a new Van Staal reel or Robalo boat if they have nowhere to use it. Unity for the benefit of all involved.

I don't know marine biology. I have not dove on the wrecks and reefs to see what is going on there, but I do understand from the info I have learned is that the basis of this decision is from skewed numbers. They may be right. They may have the best interest of the resource in mind. But, they may have another agenda all together. Personally, I don't think that the public is hearing the whole truth. All I know is we will have no control over the outcome on this one. We have no say in the matter, more than likely. And that is a shame. But what can we do as a small group? We have no decent arguement in the eyes of the "committees". We are a bunch of dumb can kickers that just want to overharvest the resources.

I am an inshore fisherman. I worry about the impact that not having the offshore opportunites will present. More pressure on the trout, reds, flounder, whiting, etc. I know that there is plenty of pressure now, but what will the guides have to do, when most of their clientele want to keep a rod bent and take home bags of filets? They will go for what they can. And I can in no way blame them for it. No knock against guides. I understand they have to do whatever thay can to make clients happy to ensure return business and good word of mouth advertising. That is how they survive.

We need to find a way to get some good numbers from unbiased biologists. And it will take a unified effort. One person can make some noise, but a crowd can be deafaning.

That is the only way that we can beat this kind of action. We have to counter with hard facts. We have to be able to fund our own research by "qualified" biologists. We need to pressure the manufacturers of the products we buy to make a stand on our behalf. There are millions of corporate dollars out there that will speak for us if we demand it.

Put some pressure on those that you buy from, manufacturer, wholesaler, or retailer. Make them aware of this issue. Let them know how you feel. Create a buzz. If the corporations think that they will be missing out on some money, you can bet that they will be red alert. Get the word out as much as you can. Send emails. Make phone calls. Don't be idle, because if you do, more and more of this type of legislation will come to fruition. Let's make a stand. What you say?


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## wharfrat (Jan 27, 2011)

Not as well read as others on the subject, but who in the world would think that bsb, bee-liners and aj's are endangered or over fished. There seems to be some agenda in place to keep nearshore/offshore fisherman off the water and I can not figure out why. How do you  make a stand?


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## retired (Jan 28, 2011)

Bryannecker:  What was Isackson's reaction to all of this ?  You have my full support and I think we all need to take this petition to every boat dealer and tackle supplier that each of us respectively use and get them on board for this fight; we all need to get together on this and do it NOW or as it has been stated, this is only the beginning and we will end up loosing it all!!!!!!


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## brailediver (Jan 28, 2011)

This is another push towards Catch-Shares


Copied from Florida Sportsman-
Thanks Mjacks-

If anyone is really interested in why a few of the ENGO's are so interested in ramming Catch Shares through, click on this link and read from page 23 to 30 (it won't take long).

http://www.packard.org/assets/files/conser...tudy_report.pdf

When you are finished, you will understand why Jason Winship of Sea Change Management Fund in explaining what "Sea Change" is to a group of Hedge Fund Managers and well-heeled investors, describes what they do as:

"Sea Change does two things with one particular focus, we primarily invest in companies that buy and sell fish, and the two things that we do are, One evaluate the conservation environmental merits of the practices of those companies and two we look for their financial prospects and we try to determine how much bang for the buck we can get with investment in any given company on both the conservation and financial fronts"

BUT, in order to accomplish this, EDF's Catch Share Program must already be in-place. This is why Jason Winship then says:

"An emerging topic that we are keeping a close eye on is* how to make direct investments in catch shares systems. All that has been outlined in the transition to catch shares systems requires the application of capital and also requires other key things like government to step in and create the right playing field for investors to operate on. But we do see a significant opportunity. David, once again on the stat of the 4 times increase in value, pre rationalization to post rationalization, in the transition of these catch shares systems means that someone is making money in that process. Someone has to finance the acquisition of those permits and speed that transition along. We think that there is a very very solid rationale for investors to step in to that capital void and provide the means by which that transition can be facilitated, and make money at the same time.

Oh, WAIT! I'm not finished just yet! Guess who's on their advisory committee??

http://www.seachangemanagement.com/fund/co...tion-committee/

David Festa, Director, Oceans Program, Environmental Defense Fund
Vikki Spruill, President and CEO, Ocean Conservancy
Michael Sutton, Director, Center for the Future of the Oceans, Monterey Bay Aquarium et al.

So, just a few questions.

1) what did Winship (SeaChange) mean in April of 2009 when he said in the statement (above) "also requires other key things like government to step in and create the right playing field for investors to operate on"? Answer: Just a couple of months prior to this meeting, Jane Lubchenco (EDF's wonder child) was nominated to head NOAA. She helped develop "catch share" programs while a PEW Fellow and at EDF. By the ENGO's paving the way with massive lobbying efforts to get Lubchenco nominated, they knew that their dreams would soon come true. And they are!

2) What did Winship mean when he stated " David, once again on the stat of the 4 times increase in value, pre rationalization to post rationalization"? Answer:, he was acknowledging comments made by David Festa (Environmental Defense) who spoke prior to Winship. Festa told the group that he could assure them (the investors) that they would be able to 4 X the price of fish and that the investors would make a great deal of money.

3) Why the "investors"? If Catch Share Programs are the holy grail and, after implementation, those commercial entities remaining could finally "earn a decent income", "fish all year long", etc., why is the investment needed? Answer, so that the ENGO's could buy up all the catch shares and control the fish. Then, the fish are run through their newly acquired mid-level seafood distribution companies, and in the process of bleeding off massive profits from increasing the price of your fish by 4-X, their investors make a handsome profit, the ENGO's rake in a "Sustainable Income", their PR agencies reap on-going rewards, their agenda-driven donors get the peace-of-mind, knowing they have just saved the earth.

The common man however, the salt-of-the-earth, the commercial vessels, their owners and crew, are left behind to languish and wither away. The recreational anglers and the businesses that support them are gone, along with their houses and their boats and their livelihoods. Whole communities are ruined. They do not care!

So look, we all just have to understand that "social change" is going to be painful. So "buck-up" everybody! Be strong! Stop being so selfish! And don't forget that we do not know as much as they.

Don't like any of this? GET INVOLVED NOW!*


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## brailediver (Jan 28, 2011)

I know I'll probably get trashed for this, but it seems that the only viable action left for us is an open, organized mass protest
that shows a deliberate disregard for all of their new regulations. We already know the science is flawed & skewed to their liking. We already know that they will do what they want regardless of what we say or want. We already have volumes of paperwork that disputes their science. We already have our benchmark assessment of Red Snapper(joke). We have lawsuits filed. We have written letters. We have attended Dog & Pony shows so that they could perfect their method of divide & conquer. We have marched on Washington with no more effect than a blade of grass in a whirl-wind! We have elected officials that were soon turned around by the corruption that exists in that entity. We have filed petitions & fumed on internet forums.We have debated & discussed current fisheries management methods & brought our concerns to everyone that will listen. Pro & con!
 There is only one thing lacking in our campaign.
 Media exposure!
 Why hasn't the media come out to champion our cause?
 Why was there no notice of these changes & meetings on the news or in the paper?
 Why hasn't the destruction of the East Coast fishing industry,once a vital & thriving industry,been at the fore front of leading news stories?
We need to get their attention!
An open & direct, but civil, public protest that catches national media attention!? Something the media HAS  to recognize!
 I don't know what  or how, but unless something is done, we will be stuck with closed seasons, increasingly short seasons,low or non-existent creel limits, & no choice except imported seafood!
 Maybe a meeting of those of us that love to fish & dive to get the word out, or organize something!?
 It would take some effort.
 Their organizational skills ( management) & zest for eliminating fishing has me more nervous than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs! And time is running short!


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## brailediver (Jan 28, 2011)

America Live w/ Megyn Kelly kelly@foxnews.com
America's Newsroom w/ Bill and Martha americasnewsroom@foxnews.com
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Studio B w/ Shepard Smith studiob@foxnews.com
The O'Reilly Factor oreilly@foxnews.com
War Stories w/ Oliver North warstories@foxnews.com
Your World w/ Neil Cavuto cavuto@foxnews.com


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## StriperAddict (Jan 28, 2011)

*Good thread & posts*

I'd include Herman Cain in the list, especially if he runs for Pres. It seems he is a level headed guy who should have GA coastal fishing intrests in mind.


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## spraynbuckshot (Jan 28, 2011)

Just had this fowarded to me.


Southeast Fishery Bulletin National Marine Fisheries Service, Southeast Regional Office, 263 13th Avenue South, St. Petersburg, FL 33701
FOR INFORMATION CONTACT:	January 28, 2011 727-824-5305, FAX 727-824-5308	FB11-005
NOAA Fisheries Service Announces Closure Date for the South Atlantic Recreational Black Sea Bass Fishery
NOAA Fisheries Service has determined that the 2010- 2011 recreational annual catch limit (ACL) of 409,000 pounds for black sea bass has been reached. As a result, the recreational sector for black sea bass in federal waters of the South Atlantic from 35°15.19' N. lat., (the latitude of Cape Hatteras Light, NC) to Key West, FL will be closed, effective 12:01 a.m. (local time) February 12, 2011, through 12:01 a.m. June 1, 2011.
For vessels which have a valid federal charter vessel/headboat permit for South Atlantic Snapper- grouper, the closure applies to state and federal waters. The operator of a vessel that has been issued a federal for- hire permit for snapper-grouper must have landed any black sea bass harvested from either state or federal waters prior to 12:01 a.m., local time, February 12, 2011.

Background:
Black sea bass are overfished (population is too low), and experiencing overfishing (rate of removals is too high). The commercial quota is 309,000 pounds gutted weight, and the recreational allocation is 409,000 pounds gutted weight. Harvest levels must be kept below these levels to prevent fish from being removed too quickly, and to rebuild the black sea bass population.
Amendment 17B to the Fishery Management Plan for the Snapper-Grouper Fishery of the South Atlantic Region (Amendment 17B), which becomes effective January 31, 2011, retains these values as the respective commercial and recreational ACLs. Amendment 17B also includes black sea bass accountability measures (AMs), which are actions intended to prevent the ACL from being exceeded. If the ACL is projected to be met, the recreational fishery would be closed. If the ACL is exceeded, the ACL for the following fishing year will be reduced by the amount of the overage. That determination will be made before the next fishing year begins.

Commercial Sector:
Commercial harvest of black sea bass closed on October 7, 2010, because NOAA Fisheries Service projected landings would reach the quota by that time. However, an updated
report indicated that less fish were landed than expected. The commercial sector for black sea bass reopened from 12:01 a.m. December 1, 2010, until 12:01 a.m. December 15, 2010. It remains closed until June 1, 2011.

More information:
Information on these and other actions contained in Amendment 17B can be found on the South Atlantic Fishery	Management	Council’s	Web	site	at http://www.safmc.net, in the Black Sea Bass Frequently Asked Questions, in the Amendment 17B Frequently Asked Questions, and at the following NOAA Fisheries Service	Southeast	Region	Web	site http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sf/SASnapperGrouperHomepage .htm. Written requests for information may be sent to:
NOAA Fisheries Service Southeast Regional Office Sustainable Fisheries Division 263 13th Avenue South
St. Petersburg, Florida 33701


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## Bryannecker (Jan 28, 2011)

Note:
My fellow fishermen:
I have written the following petition for this situation to be presented to the governor. I encourage all of those who have an interest in the matter to copy it, pass it to family, friends, tackle shops, boat dealers and other related facilities for mailing to the office of the governor on an individual basis when you have all the signatures you can muster. That way all the stakeholders, to borrow a phrase from the politicians, can share in the petition. With that method, I believe that we can garner many more signatures than would be possible at a central location. Let's spread it all across Georgia,  and sent all of them to the office of the governor. By doing that in that manner, we will let them know how the common man, or fisherman as it were, feels about this matter. Here it is for what it is worth:



We the fishermen of the sovereign state of Georgia, do hereby petition 

the Governor of that state to take the following action with respect to 

the offshore fishing closures for Red Snapper and of late the closure of 

fishing for Black Seabass to commence January 31, 2011, now said to be on 

or about February 12, 2011, and cease on 

or about June 1, 2011:


To wit: We respectfully petition the governor to do the following:

1. Issue an executive order to the Georgia Department of Natural Resources to in no way assist any agency of the federal government in the enforcement of that closure. 

2. Recall the current members of the South Atlantic Fisheries Management who are in support of those closures, and replace them with members who will act in the best interests of Georgia fishermen. Or failing to possess the authority to recall them, not appoint them for a subsequent term!

This being said: We the fishermen of Georgia do express and convey our total lack of confidence in the current members of said council. We further state that we do not accept the conclusion that there is a real and actual condition of overfishing off our coast with respect to both snapper and black sea bass. 

Furthermore, we challenge the data concerning the biomas as accumulated by those bodies and emphatically state that no such condition exists with respect to overfishing for those species. We beseech the honorable governor to not accept any funding from those agencies in furtherance of those closures. 

Name:
Address:


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## Sharkfighter (Jan 28, 2011)

Cant we just take anyone who wants to close BSB out to a reef like J or CCA and drop a piece of squid while anchored directly over structure?  

You catch a BSB instantly on every drop unless a porgy or ruby red lips grabs it first!!  How can they say there are not enough of them.  

I am going Sunday and plan on coming home with some for dinner.

For a solution they should build more reefs.  More habitat means more fish.  Build new reefs by dropping junk down there, and keep those specific new reef areas closed for a year or two.  After that you will have more fish.  It's not rocket science, we have to much junk up here and the fish need habitat.  Win win


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## Bryannecker (Jan 28, 2011)

Sharkfighter said:


> Cant we just take anyone who wants to close BSB out to a reef like J or CCA and drop a piece of squid while anchored directly over structure?
> 
> You catch a BSB instantly on every drop unless a porgy or ruby red lips grabs it first!!  How can they say there are not enough of them.
> 
> ...



Yes, but that cost money and closing down a fishery costs them nothing!


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## Parker Phoenix (Jan 29, 2011)

It's all about money. NOAA has a vision of Joe Fisherman going online to say, Goldman-Sachs, before he goes fishing, buying a few catch shares with his Master Card, then if available he can go. MAybe.........NOAA is out of touch, and refuses to listen to common sense. This is a done deal, and nobody is gonna stop them. They want to make outlaws out of us all.  I'm not gonna stop writng letters, or protesting, but I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall at tmies.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jan 29, 2011)

We need to, somehow, get Congress to amend Manguson.

It is the root.

MSA is the political cover the councils all hide behind.


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## Fletch_W (Jan 29, 2011)

Does anyone have a link to the data that NOAA is basing this on? Or is it secret data? I want to see the actual documentation of their studies. Is that published? I appreciate any links to provide that for me.


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## Bryannecker (Jan 29, 2011)

retired said:


> Bryannecker:  What was Isackson's reaction to all of this ?  You have my full support and I think we all need to take this petition to every boat dealer and tackle supplier that each of us respectively use and get them on board for this fight; we all need to get together on this and do it NOW or as it has been stated, this is only the beginning and we will end up loosing it all!!!!!!



*Frank M. Redmond is the field representative for Senator
Isakson and he was the pointman at the Pooler, GA hearing.  They are interested in this matter, while I do not know it his fellow senator is or is not. 

Mr. Redmond said that he wants a copy of the petition and/or the results of it.  He cam be contacred by cell phone at: (404) 313-3145.  Fax: (770) 661-0768 or by e-mail at: Frank_Redmond@isakson.senate.gov

I suggest that copies of all signed petitions go to him as well as our governor.  

Thanks, and please print out the petition and get it signed before it is too late!

Capt. Jimmy  *


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## fishtail (Jan 29, 2011)

Fletch_W said:


> Does anyone have a link to the data that NOAA is basing this on? Or is it secret data? I want to see the actual documentation of their studies. Is that published? I appreciate any links to provide that for me.


From what I remember years ago there was a mandate for commercial shrimpers to carry a tally of the bycatch by species and submit the info or be fined, they all griped about the new paperwork. As I remember this was considered the major portion to retrieve data. 
Someone please correct me if this is inaccurate.


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## Fletch_W (Jan 29, 2011)

fishtail said:


> From what I remember years ago there was a mandate for commercial shrimpers to carry a tally of the bycatch by species and submit the info or be fined, they all griped about the new paperwork. As I remember this was considered the major portion to retrieve data.
> Someone please correct me if this is inaccurate.



I hope I don't derail too much, but from what I know about shrimping, most of the bycatch is flounder, trout, spot, croaker, whiting, redfish, bluefish, ladyfish, shark, stingray, and a few other species that don't include BSB. Black sea bass congregate around structure that destroys shrimp nets. 

There must be some other source of information to study populations of BSB before they banned fishing for them. There has to be.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 29, 2011)

Well, that was all for nothing.



> Friday afternoon, officials with NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service announced that recreational anglers may not harvest any black sea bass from federal waters of the South Atlantic region beginning at 12:01 a.m. Feb. 12.
> 
> The South Atlantic region is from the North Carolina-Virginia border to Key West and federal waters extend from three miles offshore to 200 miles except in South Florida where it is equidistant between Florida and the Bahamas.


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## Fletch_W (Jan 29, 2011)

I wonder how many BSB will be caught, thrown back, and eaten by barracuda and birds instead of humans? Instead of stopping at a limit, the anglers will keep fishing because they aren't possessing any of the fish. More will be killed. Sound about right?


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## fishtail (Jan 29, 2011)

I've tried to digest this, see if it is any help as to where they derived their assessments. 
http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/download/SEDAR2_SAR1_BSBComplete.pdf?id=DOCUMENT


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## Bryannecker (Jan 29, 2011)

fishtail said:


> I've tried to digest this, see if it is any help as to where they derived their assessments.
> http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/download/SEDAR2_SAR1_BSBComplete.pdf?id=DOCUMENT



If you can make the SAFMC meeting on SSI in March, they will enlighten you to the Nth degree on how they collect the so-called data on the biomas for all species.  It it flawed but they will never admit to that.  Their mandate is to use the "best available" science.  

That having been said, we must act or hash over the various factors of the matter,  which may not be gremain to the issure of the closure.  We must take action with petitions, calls, meeting attendence, demonstrations, protests, and all means legally possible to stop this madness or suffer the consequences!  The choice is yours my brothers of the fish, fishermen that is!!!!


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## fishtail (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree!
The post was intended for Fletch to review if he hasn't been privy to it.


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## Fletch_W (Jan 30, 2011)

fishtail said:


> I've tried to digest this, see if it is any help as to where they derived their assessments.
> http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/download/SEDAR2_SAR1_BSBComplete.pdf?id=DOCUMENT



Excellent! Thank you! 

My intitial reading of it gives me two conclusions... 

#1: A whole lot of BSB harvest was measured in the early 90's. No data was collected after 2001. 

#2: Using that spike in the data to determine an average or appropriate population ignores the fact it was the spike years where reporting became incentivized. A true statistician eliminates the highs and lows of a data set. It appears this study did not. Not only did they not eliminate the highs and lows, they gave extra weight to the highs because there were more reports. 


Does that make sense?


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## jkp (Jan 31, 2011)

Just to add an outside view, we just attended the same meeting here in eastern North Carolina in regards to BSB and when asked for a copy of the data used to calculate the population they actually replied it was an educated estimate based on 2001 figures.  Our local Marine fisheries staff said that this is many things, but not to over look that the Grouper/Snapper closure was part of a closed door agreement of NAFTA made during its approval which included a requirement of the U.S.A. to import "x" number of tons of fish and seafood from Mexico (hear say haven't seen it in writing)(but odd that a marine fisheries agent would know anything about NAFTA).  

On a second note that might be posted somewhere else (but I thought I would add) they have also added a proposal to limit the following:

Wahoo- 2 per Vessel

Cobia- 1 per Vessel

Dolphing (Mahi)-9 per Vessel


According to my local NOAA rep. the Black Bass changes are a done deal just not sure to what extent yet, and he feels that the other limits may be slipped through as well.

We need to get rid of the SAFMC and Mag. Act.

j


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## G Duck (Jan 31, 2011)

All I can say, is I wish the fishermen had a lobbying group as big as the NRA is for the hunters and  shooters. I bet someone could put something together, but it may be too late. I bet when my kids are grown, they wont be able to keep a mullet. Sad day.


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## Fletch_W (Jan 31, 2011)

jkp said:


> Just to add an outside view, we just attended the same meeting here in eastern North Carolina in regards to BSB and when asked for a copy of the data used to calculate the population they actually replied it was an educated estimate based on 2001 figures.  Our local Marine fisheries staff said that this is many things, but not to over look that the Grouper/Snapper closure was part of a closed door agreement of NAFTA made during its approval which included a requirement of the U.S.A. to import "x" number of tons of fish and seafood from Mexico (hear say haven't seen it in writing)(but odd that a marine fisheries agent would know anything about NAFTA).
> 
> On a second note that might be posted somewhere else (but I thought I would add) they have also added a proposal to limit the following:
> 
> ...



I could see red snapper restrictions, they take many years to get to reproductive maturity, and in some areas they get hammered. I don't agree with it, but they do have some semblance of an argument. If snapper do become endangered, it takes much longer for the population to recover because of how many years it takes for the juvis to grow up. So, pre-emptive action can be justified. 

Mahi grows to reproductive maturity in less than two years. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to close or limit that species any further, not in America anyway. Maybe in South America where the harvesting is unchecked and unlimited, but not here. 

As far as cobia, I could see some kind of restriction so they don't get hammered in the rivers when they are about to spawn. 

I know nothing of wahoo. 

I know little of tuna, but several years ago when all the federal tuna tag stuff started, I seem to remember arguments that the same tuna migrate from England through US waters down south, even around Africa, and that all the fishing in Africa and other points north devastate the populations much more than what US recreational anglers do, and it's just a money making scheme with "tuna tags" or some such. Again, just what I heard. 

This BSB thing is ridiculous. I'm not even what you'd call a beginner offshore fisherman, but I've been out enough times to know that the most abundant fish on the bottom seems to be BSB. Anglers have no problem limiting out on that species. So why protect it further? If anything, size suffers and a slot would be great to cull alot of the overpopulated little ones and give the bigger ones a chance to get bigger and make more babies. 

And ultimately, as another poster here said, just make more habitat! It's that easy!

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I just want to get this in print for the record. It's absolutely ridiculous. No data has been collected in ten years, and of the data collected, it's flawed for modeling because of a sudden spike in the early 90's.


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## Capt. TJ Cheek (Feb 1, 2011)

Here is another idea to stop supposed overfishing of one species... Open everything back up. I wouldn't keep nearly as many sea bass or b-liners if I could keep a snapper or 5. They are throwing the harvests out of balance.


Moving on, I probably shouldn't say this, but I'll go Robin Hood on these suckers. Unless they offer to buy my boat and all offshore tackle so I don't have to pay for useless equipment. Or, just wave my property tax on my boat until I can fish it again. Looking at it that way, the recreational fisherman is looking at taxation without representation. We have these expensive machines that come with a hefty tax, and no one that will stand up for us. 

Robin Hood baby. Hope they don't check me.


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## Bryannecker (Feb 1, 2011)

jkp said:


> Just to add an outside view, we just attended the same meeting here in eastern North Carolina in regards to BSB and when asked for a copy of the data used to calculate the population they actually replied it was an educated estimate based on 2001 figures.  Our local Marine fisheries staff said that this is many things, but not to over look that the Grouper/Snapper closure was part of a closed door agreement of NAFTA made during its approval which included a requirement of the U.S.A. to import "x" number of tons of fish and seafood from Mexico (hear say haven't seen it in writing)(but odd that a marine fisheries agent would know anything about NAFTA).
> 
> On a second note that might be posted somewhere else (but I thought I would add) they have also added a proposal to limit the following:
> 
> ...



Funny thing is that the new White House advisor/chief of staff from Chicago, Mr. Daily,  just said that the Commerce Department spends about 60% of its time on fisheries matters, and that is way too much.  During the Clinton administration, he was the secretary thereof.  So budget cuts can be made there.  And, maybe,  that means less intrusiveness from those folks who command NOAA, NMFS, and the various fisheries councils.  Or it may mean that they will use a lack of funding as an excuse for further closures, and other measures against us as common fishermen.  But it will mean less government, and that is a very, very good thing.


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## fishtail (Feb 1, 2011)

http://www.safmc.net/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=0M3vc7IiDDk=&tabid=139

NOAA Fisheries Service has determined that the 2010-2011 recreational annual catch limit (ACL) of 409,000 pounds for black sea bass has been reached. As a result, the recreational sector for black sea bass in federal waters of the South Atlantic from 35°15.19' N. lat., (the latitude of Cape Hatteras Light, NC) to Key West, FL will be closed, effective 12:01 a.m. (local time) February 12, 2011, through 12:01 a.m. June 1, 2011.


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## fishtail (Feb 1, 2011)

unbelievable


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## fishtail (Feb 2, 2011)

During the time period of which it has been determined the Blackfish being over fished and up till now, have there been enough major improvements in their environment to offset this radical closure?
Meaning improvements to the existing offshore reefs or even adding additional offshore reefs.
By my count, we (GA) have a total of 22 (2 being deep water) and only 3 have had additions since 2001.

Just a silly thought, improve the environment, improves the fish population.


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## Bryannecker (Feb 2, 2011)

The official number of Georgia artificial reefs is, supposedly,  53, along a coastline of 100 miles.  Brunswick got the latest improvement in the form of some reject concrete power poles from Georgia Power.  The J Reef got some subway cars, but that is about it.  Alabama has 40,000 artificial reef along a coastline of a mere 38 miles.  Alabama is said to the red snapper capital of the world.  So, you hit the nail on the head.  Reefs are the answer, for if you build them,  the fish will come to them for a home and the so-called overfishing will be a thing of the past.  

What we have now is a situation of it is cheaper to control and restrict us than it is to build reefs.  

In Alabama, private businessmen and chambers of commerce, plus the government worked together to build the reefs so that the economic benefit would flow to all.  

We could do that here in Georgia with the right leadership from all the parties as mentioned above.  

Thanks for broaching the subject, fishtail.

Capt. Jimmy


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## jkp (Feb 2, 2011)

Capt. Jimmy,
You are very correct, sad thing is even with all the habitat Alabama also took it on the chin with the Snapper ban, then the grouper closure, and from what I heard today they will be the first to have the wahoo limit.  No matter what we do we have to get rid of the current admin that is actually coming up with these closures.
J


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## Parker Phoenix (Feb 3, 2011)

Gosh, Black Sea Bass closed, I've seen it all. I have never been one to understand stupidity. I guess thats why I'll never be able to be a member of any council like GCFMC or SAFMC. MD is 100% correct, we have to get M/S changed or before long they won't even let us put a boat in the water, much less go fishing.


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## Sharkfighter (Feb 4, 2011)

Capt. TJ Cheek said:


> Robin Hood baby. Hope they don't check me.



I don't have nearly as much time out there as some of you.  So please tell me where I am wrong.  SAFMC applies in water 3 miles or more out?  Closer in catches are governed by GA state fishing regs which limit BSB to 12 inches and 15 per person limit.  

Now I Have only been stopped INSIDE the 3 mile limit, mostly on the river and docks.  Do they really check you out over reefs like CCA?

I DO NOT keep small fish or overslot reds etc.  Because I want to protect fishing.  I do not keep more then I will eat.

But because this restriction is so STUPID on BSB, what if I get stopped at the Dock or river and asked where I caught the Cooler of BSB and I say "65Ft from land" which is technically true if I measure straight down.  

How would they know I caught them 18 miles out?   I hate the idea of lying and violating the law but this is ridiculous.


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## Bryannecker (Feb 5, 2011)

*Sadly, Georgia is in complete compliance with all regulation as promulgated by the feds.  They are just not publishing that fact in their literature, since, according to a member of the Georgia delegation to the SAFMC:  "Georgia just cannot keep up with posting all the various changes to regulations by the feds." *Therefore, with the DNR Rangers,  your tactic will get you a citation.
Black Sea Bass will be closed in both state and federal waters from NC to FLA.  There is no working around it.  

The only effective way we can fight it is with political pressure!!!
Sign my petition, get others to sign it,  and any other addressing this issue showing our angst with the regulators.  Court battles are expensive, too much in that department.  Pressure on the politicians is the way for us to fight it as the most effective means.
Thanks,
Capt. Jimmy


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## Fletch_W (Feb 5, 2011)

Sharkfighter said:


> I don't have nearly as much time out there as some of you.  So please tell me where I am wrong.  SAFMC applies in water 3 miles or more out?  Closer in catches are governed by GA state fishing regs which limit BSB to 12 inches and 15 per person limit.
> 
> Now I Have only been stopped INSIDE the 3 mile limit, mostly on the river and docks.  Do they really check you out over reefs like CCA?
> 
> ...



I've personally been checked out to 10 miles, and have seen them out further. This was in SC.


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