# A First-timer's Bow Setup and Tuning Thread



## Brewskis (Feb 5, 2015)

Hey guys, I recently bought a new bow which has never been set up or tuned. Typically, I would have given Kris87 a call, and found out when I could drop it off with him. I've always felt like bow setup and tuning was something best left for the experts to do (I still kinda feel that way). However, this DIY Archery forum got me to thinking. The text under the forum title says, '...Learn how to set up and tune your archery gear yourself!'. For me, nothing beats the feeling of DIY. Worse case, I have to make a trip to the ER, buy another bow, and then take it to Kris, right? 

Everyone's probably seen the two threads documenting the setup and tuning of JT's bow last off-season (if not, see Part 1 and Part 2), and those were a great help to me as I was researching how to do this myself. I'll be primarily following the steps documented in those threads. However, since I've never done this before, I know there are a lot of blanks that need to be filled in along the way. I'm planning on taking my time, and will probably ask a lot of 'dumb' questions. 

Therefore, I thought it'd be helpful to start a thread chronicling this process from start to finish from the perspective of someone doing it for the first time. That way I could have a place to keep track of everything. Perhaps, there are others out there who are looking to do the same thing, but have never tried it. I'm hoping all of us can get the answers and help needed from our resident experts here.

Plus, it's been kinda slow over here in the DIY Archery forum.


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## alligood729 (Feb 5, 2015)

Do it!


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## Brewskis (Feb 5, 2015)

So, I ended up getting a great deal (surprisingly, my wife agreed ) on a closeout 2014 Hoyt Carbon Spyder 34. It's a #3 cam, 50-60 lbs draw weight, 29.5" draw length. 

This will end up being my primary hunting bow, so I'm want to set it up to be a near duplicate of my Hoyt Faktor 34 which will become my backup bow. Between some great deals on the internet and my spare parts bin in the garage, I was able to find everything I need to do that. 


Montana Black Gold Widow Maker sight (2" Big Dog sight ring with 5 pins)
Vaper Trail Limbdriver Pro V drop-away rest
Bee Stinger Sport Hunter Extreme Stabilizer (10")
Fletcher TruPeep Peep Sight (Max Hunter 1/4")
Paradox Custom Cobra Bow Sling







Soybean talked about the 'tooling up' in another thread here in the DIY forum. Based on what I've read here and on AT, these are the kinds of things I'll need, and have gotten together:


Bench
Draw board (should be done soon using 'plans' and suggestions I found here on the forum and elsewhere on the internet)
Scale (Taylor Dial Style Industrial Hanging Scale - up to 70 lbs)
Scissors-style bow stand (decided to try this out instead of buying vise yet after seeing it used by others for this purpose)
Bow press (Bow Master w/ split limb adapters)
Bow square (Saunders Forked Horn Square)
Bow levels (R.S. Nok-EZ and Snap-on String Combo)
Pliers (needle-nose and Viper Archery Products Loopset Pliers)
Hex wrenches
Calipers
BCY #24 loop material
BCY nock point & peep tying thread
Lighter
Knife
Paper tuner (homemade using Schedule 40 pipe) and target 
I know some guys can get away without certain things listed above, but I figured as a newbie it's better to have something on-hand and not need it than the other way around after getting started. 

So is there anything else I'll need or that may be helpful that I may have left out?


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## Kris87 (Feb 5, 2015)

Great thread.  I'll be happy to participate and walk you through it all.  Be prepared to take pics so others will see.  Let's go.  What's your first step?


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## Brewskis (Feb 6, 2015)

Sounds great, Kris. I finished my draw board earlier this afternoon. I modified my workbench so it has a 2x6 on the front. I'm hoping I made it long enough..

Quick question, I duct-taped the yardstick for now since I wasn't 100% sure where it's supposed to start. Should the 1.75" mark be right where the bow grip will contact the post on the draw board?






Regarding my first step, I'm actually not sure what it should be. As I read the two setup/tuning threads for JT's bow, I made the following high-level outline of the process:


Mount the rest
Set the centershot
Check cam sync
Tie soft nocks
Tie D-loop
Check bow specs (axle-to-axle distance, brace height, draw weight, draw length)
Shoot bow - bareshaft through paper (not sure if this is necessary at this point or just for curiosity's sake?)
Check cam sync again
Check cam lean at brace
Check cam lean at full draw
Shoot bow - bareshaft through paper 
Troubleshoot arrow flight
Mount sight, stabilizer, sling
Determine peep sight location, and serve in
Adjust sight pins
Shoot bareshaft with fletched arrow at distance
Is this about right (steps and their order)?

I figured it'd be a good idea to have an idea of the basic steps and overall order of those steps, and then cover the details of each step as I move along through the process.


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## Brewskis (Feb 6, 2015)

Also, it's a 50-60 lb. draw weight bow, and I want to set the draw weight at 55 lbs. I've read that I should bottom out my limbs before doing anything. Is that correct? If so, at what point in the above outline do I set my draw weight to my desired poundage?


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## Kris87 (Feb 6, 2015)

OK, yes, set tape at 1.75" at the post.  That will be the AMO draw length.  

Bottom the cams, then mark them with a silver sharpie so u can measure your turns in/out.  Set to 55#.  Now go on to tuning sequence.


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## Kris87 (Feb 6, 2015)

Take that foam off and set the 1.75" there.  I can tell by your photo that its not right yet.


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## Kris87 (Feb 6, 2015)

Once u get poundage close, mount the rest, eyeball it level for now, then set the cam sync.  While setting cam sync first time, set the prelean where u want it.  When adjusting the yokes, it affects sync, so go ahead and get it in the ballpark.


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## DABAU (Feb 7, 2015)

This should be a very helpful thread and I will follow closely. I just got done building a draw board and collecting similiar tuning equipment to start doing my own stuff. I'm putting a new string on my bow this weekend and plan on re-tuning everything so I'm excited and nervous I'm going to mess something up all at the same time. Only way to learn is to dive right in.


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## Brewskis (Feb 7, 2015)

I'll be getting back to this tonight. However, I'm not sure I know the best way to check cam sync? 

Should I just pull the bow down using a hook I have attached above in a floor joist (it's definitely securely fastened and strong enough), or should I use the draw board? I didn't know if it's OK to draw the bow back on the draw board without a D-loop? It seems like the link/carabiner connected to the string could possibly slip up the string causing who knows what kind of havoc. 

Also what am I looking for when I check the cam sync? I've read that hybrid cams should be set up so that the drawstop on the top cam hits slightly before the drawstop on the bottom. Perhaps, I'm confusing cam sync and cam timing?


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## Kris87 (Feb 7, 2015)

Definitely don't put it on the draw board without a d loop.  I usually mount and eyeball the rest, then mark the string with a silver sharpie where the nock is.  Then for preliminary cam sync, I do use the hook.  Still be careful doing this.  The reason I don't go ahead and do the loop first, is that when u do adjust the sync, the loop moves either up or down according to which cable u twist.  

I generally like to have the top stop hit 1/16" before the bottom.  But the bow will eventually tell u where it tunes best.


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## Brewskis (Feb 8, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> OK, yes, set tape at 1.75" at the post.  That will be the AMO draw length.





Kris87 said:


> Take that foam off and set the 1.75" there.  I can tell by your photo that its not right yet.



OK, I removed the foam, put a level on the post, then moved the tape so that the 1.75" mark is at the edge of the post. 






However, if I put the foam back on, it obviously adds some thickness (even after it compresses from drawing the bow back). Any suggestions for protecting the bow grip, but not adding so much thickness?


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## Brewskis (Feb 8, 2015)

I bottomed out the limb bolts, marked the bolts, and then turned them out equally until the draw weight was at 55 lbs. (required 2 full turns - interestingly, the Hoyt manual said that on a 60 lb. bow each turn is approximately 2.5 lbs.).


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## Brewskis (Feb 8, 2015)

I figured before I mounted the rest, I needed to located the Berger hole on the other side of the riser since the rubber 'Silent Shelf' covers it. I poked a pin through the center of the Berger hole, and then used a silver Sharpie to mark the shelf where the pin came through it.











I then mounted the rest on the bow, and eyeballed it level (OK, I put a level on it. My wife says it's the German in me. Didn't work very well anyways. ). I wasn't sure where to mount the rest fowards/backwards, so I looked at my Faktor. I noticed it was mounted all the way forward, so I did the same on this bow. I did not touch the vertical adjustment yet. However...






I nocked an arrow so that it was level while sitting on the rest, and noticed that the arrow was below the mark I made indicating the Berger hole. 






I went ahead, and lightly marked the nock location with a silver Sharpie. 






However, later I recalled something I'd read about how the center of the arrow should intersect the center of the Berger hole, or even a little higher? Is there a specific starting point for setting the rest height in relation to the Berger hole?


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## Brewskis (Feb 8, 2015)

Now regarding cam sync...

I used the aforementioned hook in the ceiling to carefully draw the bow. Here's where the cams are at as of right now out of the box..

Top cam (barely touching):






Bottom cam:






I'm not sure how large that gap is, but it definitely looks bigger than 1/16". I'm guessing this is where twisting/untwisting the yoke(s) comes into play?


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## Kris87 (Feb 8, 2015)

Higher is generally better than lower on a hybrid cam bow because of the downward nock travel.  Just don't be lower than center. Just start center of shaft with center of berger and go from there.


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## Kris87 (Feb 8, 2015)

Yes that would be a bit much.  I hardly ever see one out of the box like that.  Normally its the other way around.  Keep in mind, if this bow hasn't been shot then the cables are going to stretch, specifically the buss cable.  When it does, its naturally going to move that bottom cam closer to the cable.  U can move it now, but you're going to have to move it again after they settle.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> Yes that would be a bit much.  I hardly ever see one out of the box like that.  Normally its the other way around.  Keep in mind, if this bow hasn't been shot then the cables are going to stretch, specifically the buss cable.  When it does, its naturally going to move that bottom cam closer to the cable.  U can move it now, but you're going to have to move it again after they settle.



To my knowledge, the bow hasn't been shot at all, so I can totally see what you're saying about the bottom cam coming closer after the strings and cables are shot in. In fact, I checked my Faktor 34, and after shooting it countless times last season, I noticed that the bottom cam is now hitting before the top cam (that project will have to wait..)

So are you saying it'd be safe to proceed as it is, and then make adjustments later if necessary? You mentioned adjusting cam sync can affect nocking point, so in addition to adjusting the cam sync later (if necessary), would I also have to move the nocking point up or down?


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## Kris87 (Feb 9, 2015)

If it were mine, I'd add one full twist to the control cable, then go onto the nock.  Once they settle, it won't be hard to get it back right by a twist or two.  I use the tiller a lot to make fine adjustments to the nock point.  An 1/8 turn in a limb bolt doesn't really affect a bow's tune, but does move the nock point up and down.  That's just an old trick.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

OK, thanks for the suggestion. Should I add the one full twist to the control cable at the top cam or the bottom cam?


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## Soybean (Feb 9, 2015)

Good thread.  All my bows are single cam so i dont worry about cam sync, just timing for me.  I did come across a really good dvd set called "The Self-Reliant Bowhunter" by Michael Braden.  I havent had a chance to watch it yet but it was highly recommended by folks on AT.  $30 bucks from Lancasters.  It supposed to have very detailed video instruction on bow setup and tuning.  Good luck with your setup, its addicting.


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## Kris87 (Feb 9, 2015)

I do all the control cable adjustments at the top.  Much easier to deal with there than at the bottom.  Cycle it once or twice after u make an adjustment.  Also, I don't like to do half turn adjustments to keep the serving from separating.  If I absolutely need to make a half turn adjustment, then I use the yokes to do it.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

Soybean said:


> Good thread.  All my bows are single cam so i dont worry about cam sync, just timing for me.  I did come across a really good dvd set called "The Self-Reliant Bowhunter" by Michael Braden.  I havent had a chance to watch it yet but it was highly recommended by folks on AT.  $30 bucks from Lancasters.  It supposed to have very detailed video instruction on bow setup and tuning.  Good luck with your setup, its addicting.



Thanks, Soybean. I agree it's addicting.  It's definitely helping me deal with the off-season doldrums. 

BTW, your posts here in the DIY Archery forum were helpful to me when I was setting up my bench and draw board. I'm hoping others are able to benefit from this forum as much as I am.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

OK, I put the Bowmaster press (with split limb adapters) to work for the first time. I'm not going to lie. I was a little nervous cranking it down the first time. However, everything went great. I just took my time, and double-checked everything as I did it.

(please disregard the 'camo' pattern on the cushion I used to lay the bow on.. )







I removed the control cable off the top cam and added one full twist (twisted clockwise). 






After doing that, I made sure the cables and string were in the appropriate tracks, and slowly started letting off the press. 

I then drew back the bow a couple times, and put it on the ceiling hook. That one twist definitely closed that gap up. 






The top and bottom draw stops are now hitting exactly at the same time. Should I worry about getting a 1/16" gap there, or should I just proceed to the nock now?


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## Kris87 (Feb 9, 2015)

Just proceed with the nock point now.  If anything, you'll have to take that twist back out but at least you'll be starting with the cams in proper sync.  I would start with the nock point above level, maybe 1/16-1/8" high.


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## Kris87 (Feb 9, 2015)

Also, keep in mind, when u finally get to shooting through paper, and if u need to change the cam lean, u are going to have sync changes possibly by making adjustments there.  That's why its not critical yet to have the cams exactly where u want them.  Once u start shooting, it'll get a lot clearer.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

On to nock point...

I made sure that the bow was sitting straight up by putting a level on the string (note: since it wasn't attached to the thicker serving, I had to make sure I held it up tight to the the string when verifying level - not sure how these levels are used on the center serving since you can't attach a nock and the level at the same time ). 

I then nocked an arrow, and placed a level on it.






I then measured 1/16" above the top of the nock, and started tying my soft nock there.






For the top nock, I tied four or five overhand knots on alternating sides of the string, and then burned the ends.

For the bottom nock, I measured 1/16" below the bottom of the nock and started tying there. I tied seven or eight overhand knots on alternating sides of the string, and again burned the ends.


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## Brewskis (Feb 9, 2015)

I said in the first post that I'd probably ask a lot of 'dumb' questions. This may be one of them..

I tied my soft nocks as shown above. It seemed to me that the gap between the nocks was bigger than the gap on my other bow. I was wondering if I had made it too big. However, then I thought about how I use Nockturnal nocks on my hunting arrows, so I attached one of those. As you can see, whereas there was quite a gap with the Easton nock, there is almost no gap with the Nockturnal.

Easton nock:






Nockturnal nock:






Any problem with this before I proceed to tying my D-loop?


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## Kris87 (Feb 9, 2015)

Go on.  When u tie the loops, it will close the gap a little more.


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## Brewskis (Feb 10, 2015)

Had to quit early last night. I'll be back at it this evening. 

Still don't quite have the 'cats fought on my bench' look referenced here, but I'm working on it:






Also, since I'm getting close to putting it on the draw board, any recommendations from anyone for what I should put on the metal post to protect the bow grip? I'm guessing that foam pipe insulation I had would result in a false DL reading? The only other thing I could think of is wrapping the post with electrical or duct tape..


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## Kris87 (Feb 10, 2015)

Just use the foam.  It compresses so much, if it does make any difference, its negligible.


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## Brewskis (Feb 10, 2015)

OK, back at it. Almost forgot about centershot.

The Hoyt manual says to set the centershot at 13/16" or .8125". I initially did this, but then went back and looked at my notes. Kris had mentioned setting the centershot on JT's bow at 3/4". I also read online where a lot of other guys were finding that the centershot set at 3/4" was working out best on Hoyts. So I moved it in to 3/4". Right move?

I used calipers to measure from the riser, and not the rubber 'Silent Shelf' (I gotta say, although I like how it protects against unwanted noise in the field, that thing is a real pain when setting up a bow).


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## Brewskis (Feb 10, 2015)

Also almost forgot about finishing the rest installation. The Limbdriver Pro V is limb-driven , so I still needed to attach it to the limb. 

The rest comes with a little spikey-looking rubber limb pad for attaching to the limb and tying the cord around. However, it also comes with another little stick-on doohickey which I believe is typically used on the arrow shelf for arrow retention (?). 

I actually decided to use this one on the limb instead of the other limb pad for a few reasons. First, that's how my Faktor 34 is set up, and I had zero issues with it during almost 40 hunts in a variety of weather this past season. Second, I noticed that the double-sided tape on it was much thicker than what was on the other one; again hopefully helping keep it in place even in hot weather. Third, I couldn't use it on the arrow shelf anyways due to that ol' rubber Silent Shelf.

I placed it on the limb on the same side as the rest, and right about where the front of the cam meets the gap between the limbs.  






I then tied the cord around it using a D-loop knot (half hitch knot), and ran the cord down to the rest making sure it was taut just enough to hold the launcher arm down.






I'm leaving the cord at the length it is at the rest until I know for sure that I'm done adjusting the rest.


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## Brewskis (Feb 10, 2015)

Back to the D-loop. Been looking forward to this step because once it's done I can finally shoot this thing for the first time (right?)

A lot of y'all can probably tie these in your sleep. Having never done it before, I seriously anticipated burning through all the D-loop material I bought while figuring out how to tie one. It actually went pretty well the first time. I watched the T-bone video 'How to Tie A D-loop' on YouTube several times before attempting it (for some reason I couldn't embed the video in this thread). I noticed at first that it wanted to spin around on the serving so I tightened it some more, by using needle nose pliers to spread it.

My only question regarding this step is did my D-loop turn out too long?


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## Kris87 (Feb 11, 2015)

D-loop length is more personal preference.  If u like where it puts your anchor point, and the position of your release arm, its fine.  When I first started I'd retie my loops a couple times to get the length I wanted.  After a lot of practice, I don't really have to anymore.  I like mine short, but again, if it feels good to you, go with it.


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

Gotcha. I can't say I noticed any change in anchor point or form, but I didn't feel unusually different the handful of times I drew the bow back. It's maybe a quarter inch longer than the loop on my other bow.

For those of you who are new to this like me, and might be following along, here's a couple things I forgot to add about the D-loop. 

Sure enough, it seems the gap between my soft nocks closed up a bit after tying the loop around them, and drawing the bow several times. 

Also, being a right-handed shooter, I made sure to tie the loop so that it looked like this \ across the string. T-bone mentions it in the video I referenced, but I recalled this thread when I was doing it. Before that, I didn't know it mattered.

One other thing related to what I mentioned earlier about the loop starting to turn on the string after being shot. Like I said, I tightened them some more, but I read somewhere that putting string wax on the loop material will help hold the knots tighter. Any truth to that? Also, is there such a thing as making the knots for the soft nocks and the D-loop so tight that it damages or splits the center serving?


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## Kris87 (Feb 11, 2015)

I always wax the ends of my loops.  It will really cinch them down tight.  Doesn't take a lot either.  If u really cinch the knots down tight It can separate the servings.  I don't worry about it a whole lot.  I just get it tight enough so it move on the string.  I tend to tie mine tighter than a lot I work on.  Mine won't move.


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> I always wax the ends of my loops.  It will really cinch them down tight.  Doesn't take a lot either.  If u really cinch the knots down tight It can separate the servings.  I don't worry about it a whole lot.  I just get it tight enough so it move on the string.  I tend to tie mine tighter than a lot I work on.  Mine won't move.



I noticed that the loop only moves now if I really try to turn it with my fingers, but at least it isn't turning on it's own after a shot. I'll try wax on the next loop I tie.


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

According to my notes, I'm at the point where I should make sure all the bow specs are close. First, I downloaded the tune chart from Hoyt's website.






Axle-to-axle: I measured this from the center of one axle to the center of the other axle. It was pretty much right on at 34.25".






Brace height: I measured this on a 90 degree angle to the string from the deepest part of the grip to the string. Again, it was pretty close at a hair over 6.75".






Draw weight: I went back to the scale, and pulled down until I felt the bow entering the valley. It was showing 55 lbs. before peaking right at 56 lbs.

However, I have a question. I never checked the draw weight with the limb bolts tightened all the way down. Should I have? Or is the fact that it took two full turns to reach 55 lbs., and Hoyt confirms that each full turn equals 2.5 lbs indicate everything is within spec?

Draw length: Finally put the draw board to use (let me know if anything looks alarming about it in use...)






It was kind of hard to tell for sure, but it appeared to be right around 29.5" (again, there's that slight bit of compressed foam wrapped around the post holding the bow).


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

While I had the bow drawn back on the draw board, I checked the cam timing. Interestingly, the bottom cam is now ahead of the top cam.

Bottom cam (draw stop just barely touching cable):







Top cam:






Now in full disclosure, I shot the bow perhaps a handful of times last night (more on that shortly). Would that little bit of shooting already have stretched the cables enough to cause this?


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

As I just mentioned, I fired the first shots last night. Just couldn't help myself. I shot a bareshaft at about 5 feet through paper a handful of times. I know I'm not done, so I had no idea what to expect. In the back of my head I thought I'd be getting all kinds of ridiculous tears. For what it's worth, here's the results. 






Suppose the good news is that I consistently got the same tear (to varying degrees) with each shot. A slightly high left tear.

This evening, I again shot another handful of shots with a bareshaft at 5 feet through paper after taking the bow off the draw board. Similar results with one perfect bullet-hole thrown in to tease me.






So, at this point I believe I'm suppose to look at cam lean, right?


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## Kris87 (Feb 11, 2015)

Put two twists in the left yoke and leave the right alone.  If u still get a high tear, take a half turn out of top limb bolt.  See what that does.


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## Kris87 (Feb 11, 2015)

Jeremy, sorry, do one full twist in that left yoke.


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

OK, I added one twist to the left yoke. I decided to quickly check the cam sync using the ceiling hook, and both are now hitting at the same time.

I then shot three bareshafts (numbers 1, 2, and 3 below). The first one had a tiny bit of nock right. Could have very well been me (e.g. my grip). Shots 2 and 3 were perfect bullet-holes. I thought, 'sweet!' 

I was hanging up the bow, however, and noticed that the launcher arm of the rest was partially raised. Apparently, I had not tightened down the cord screw enough, and it had slipped a bit. I decided to lower the arm completely, re-tighten the screw, and try shooting again.

I shot numbers 4, 5, and 6 below, and as you can see, each of them was nock low... 

Any idea why correcting that issue with the launcher arm would have done this (assuming that was the cause)?


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## Brewskis (Feb 11, 2015)

*added one full twist


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## C Cape (Feb 11, 2015)

Awesome thread!  You're doing a great job so far!  I've seen work from shops not as well done.  

Normally the timing will be slightly different going from pulling the bow on a hook and drawing it on a drawboard.  I would take that twist back out of the control cable and you should be pretty close.


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## Brewskis (Feb 12, 2015)

Thanks, man! Appreciate the kind words, and the suggestion. I won't be able to get back to it until late tonight.

I was thinking about putting it back on the draw board tonight, and checking the cam sync again. I read somewhere how differences in the way the bow is held can affect sync readings. 

What's got me confused are the bullet holes I was shooting before I noticed the launcher arm was partially up. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how long the arm was in that partially-raised position, but I feel like I would have noticed it before beginning to draw back. Therefore, I'm kinda thinking it slipped after shot number 3. 

Would difference in cord tension after pulling down the launcher arm, and re-tightening it down have affected arrow flight that much? I thought I tied it down the same way it was before, but I could have unknowingly done it differently...


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## Brewskis (Feb 12, 2015)

Still thinking about this, and came up with a couple other questions. 

How tight is too tight for the cord? (I know it's important not to make it too tight, but it seems this Pro V required more tension in order to hold the arm all the way down than the Pro V on my other bow. In other words, the required tension to hold the arm down on the new Pro V seemed much more (closer to a guitar string) than my other one that been used for some time).

Any tips on how to make sure the screw holding the cord is tightened down just enough so the cord doesn't slip again, but isn't overtightened? (I read it's important to not torque it down, but just snug it up)


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## Kris87 (Feb 12, 2015)

Its entirely possible for just the first few shots for the buss cable to stretch enough to get the sync back off.  You're going to need to check it again in a couple hundred shots.  I try not to use the cam sync too much to control vertical tears.  I primarily try to set it so that I like the way it feels, which normally is the top just barely ahead of the bottom.  That makes it feel firmer.  If you go too far one way with either cam, then it can start to feel mushy, and it'll feel like it has more creep.  So try to set it right, then use the nock point, or the rest height, to control the vertical tears.  

Do like Cape said, and  take that twist back out of the control cable.  If that doesn't make the sync where you want it, and it doesn't clean up that nock low flight, then go to the rest.  You can always turn the top limb bolt a 1/4 turn and see if that will fix it too.  Its not bad where it is obviously, but its easy to fix it too.

On the Pro-V...your cord will stretch initially.  I typically tie mine on, then use my finger and just put a lot of tension on it until I feel like its not really going to stretch any more.  Then retighten it.  I like to tighten it so the arm is all the way down against the rubber, then again, I just push on it until the arm is slightly raised off the rubber pad.  I leave it there.


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## Brewskis (Feb 12, 2015)

Alright guys. I took the one full twist out of the control cable (at the top again).

I put the bow back on the draw board to check the cam sync. As expected, the bottom cam was now behind the top again.

Here's a pic of the bottom draw stop when the top draw stop is barely touching the cable (gap shown is right at 1/8")






I then decided to apply the suggestions Kris gave regarding the rest cord before moving on to shooting it since I didn't want to deal with any issues again like yesterday.

I put a lot of tension on the cord to help stretch it. Then re-tightened it.

I then took a couple shots... I was now getting even worse low tears... As I was about to take a third shot, I discovered what the cause was. The rest slid completely up. The elevation adjustment screw had been slowly working it's way loose, and had finally loosened enough to allow it to raise up to the upper limit. 

After checking the level of the rest, the level of the arrow in relationship to the nocking point, and making sure all fasteners were securely fastened, I fired four more shots.

All four were left slightly high tears.






Did the rest changes I had to make perhaps reset all the other changes made? Last time I was getting that tear, I put one full twist in the left yoke. Same move here, or should I do something else?


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## Kris87 (Feb 13, 2015)

How much is the cam leaning now when you lay the arrow flush on the left side of it?  Where does the shaft cross the string.  I had a bow last year that when I made changes to the cam sync, it also gave it a left tear.  Never had seen that, and it didn't really make any sense to me.  But besides that, how much lean have you induced up to this point?  Check your centershot one more time too.


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## Brewskis (Feb 13, 2015)

That's actually something I was going to ask you about. I noticed that the top draw stop at full draw was to the left of the cable. In other words, the stop wasn't centered on the cable when it touched it like I would have expected. It almost looked like it would completely miss the cable and pass by it if it was just a hair more over to the left.

Out of curiosity, after I took the bow of the draw board, I did what you just mentioned, and placed an arrow flush along the left side of the top cam with the bow at brace. It never crossed/intersected the string. It just ran parallel to the left side of the string.

I can't remember for sure if I did this again last night after taking that one full twist out of the control cable. However, I know I did this after putting the one full twist into the control cable (and possibly after the one full twist into the left yoke).

Either way, I'll check that and the center shot again this evening.


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## Kris87 (Feb 13, 2015)

If your shaft isn't intersecting the string at all, then you just need to dial in some prelean.  That will clean up that nock left travel.  Its also a reason your top stop is sitting on the left side of the cable.  When your cam is straight at brace, it rotates this way during the draw cycle /(looking at it from behind).  So by leaning the cam just a little this way \ at brace, it will move to this position | at full draw.  

Hopefully that makes sense.  If you want to understand why the cam moves.  I'll explain that more.  But for now, just dial in some twists in the left yoke, and out of the right, and it'll head in the right direction.


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## Brewskis (Feb 13, 2015)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So is there a specific place I should look to get the arrow to intersect the string in order to know I have a enough prelean?

If when I check it tonight, the arrow is in fact running parallel to the string, and not intersecting it, what would be your starting recommended number of twists to add to the left and remove from the right (bearing in mind that I already put one full twist into the left)?


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## Kris87 (Feb 13, 2015)

There's no right answer.  Just dial it in until that left tear is gone. Yours isn't going to require much, which is a good thing.


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## Brewskis (Feb 13, 2015)

Decided to go for it, take it slow, and see what I could figure out.

I first put an arrow flush against the left side of the top cam. Sure enough the arrow was not even starting to intersect the string until near the string stop.






I rationalized in my head that if I had already added one full twist in the left yoke (post 45 for those keeping score at home), that my first move should be removing one full twist from the right. So I did that, and then checked the cam sync. The top cam was now ahead by only 1/16". Perfect! However, when I shot it through paper, I got a similar tear as before except to the right. OK, no problem. Maybe I should have just tried removing a half twist instead of a full one. I added back a half twist to the right yoke. Checked the cam sync again, and the top cam was back to being ahead by about an 1/8". However, that seemed to have gotten rid of the left and right tears. All that was left was a tiny bit of high tear.






The shots above were all at 5 feet. I decided to try a couple at 10 feet. As you can see, the shots at 10 feet seemed to amplify the high tear.






Would a rest/nock change get rid of that, or even just a turn of one of the limb bolts?


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## Brewskis (Feb 13, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> There's no right answer.  Just dial it in until that left tear is gone. Yours isn't going to require much, which is a good thing.



Our posts must have crossed paths. You're right, it didn't take much (just a half twist removed from the right yoke) to get rid of the left tear.


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## Brewskis (Feb 13, 2015)

Forgot to mention I checked the center shot measurement, and it is still at 3/4".

Also, here's a photo showing the present cam prelean after removing the half twist from the right yoke. Arrow now intersects the string around the D-loop.


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## Kris87 (Feb 13, 2015)

Good job.  I wouldn't mess with the yokes or cables much now.  Your back wall should be pretty firm, you don't have a lot of cam lean, and that's a good tear.  From here, raise the rest a skosh or take a quarter turn OUT of the top limb bolt.  U basically need the loop to move down a hair or the rest up a hair.  Pick your poison.


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## Brewskis (Feb 14, 2015)

Back at it. Pick my poison, huh? OK, well I figured the easiest option would be to take the quarter turn out of the top limb bolt. So it I did that. That was easy thanks to the marks I made on the limb bolts during my first step of this process (post 14).







Shot some bare shafts...






Nice. 

However, not being one to leave well enough alone, I decided to reverse that change, and try the other poison. I figure this whole process is as much a means to an end (that end being a well-tuned bow) as it is a learning experience. So I put that quarter turn back into the top limb bolt, and slightly raised the rest (and made sure to sufficiently tighten the elevation screw this time..) 

Again shot some bare shafts...






Sweet. 

As you can see I shot three at 5 feet and another three at 10 feet, and got several bullet holes (I'm sure that my form/grip varies slightly from shot to shot, so I'm OK with the slight imperfections in those holes).

I'm guessing this is good enough to proceed?


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## Brewskis (Feb 18, 2015)

Imagine my frustration the next day when I shot the bow again, and was getting strange tears again (don't even remember which direction at this point). Anyways, here's a really long post about it.

After a couple days of strange paper tears, making changes to address them and increasing frustation, I decided to start over, and put everything back pretty much the way it was from the box..  

Checked all my specs (DW, DL, cam sync, axle-to-axle, brace height, tiller). Everything was in spec except DL was a smidge long and the top cam was ahead by a bit more than 1/8". I put the full twist into the control cable again, and that brought the bottom cam ever so slightly ahead again. I then put one half twist into each yoke of the buss cable. This advanced the top just enough so that it was ahead by the thickness of a credit card. Perfect.

I double checked all my specs again, and everything was on now including DL. My top cam pre-lean was set so that an arrow placed on the left side of the cam intersected the string right around the D-loop. I set my arrow running through the center of the Berger hole (I believe I set it to level/90 degrees to the string), and center shot around 3/4".

At this point, I decided to install my sight and peep sight before shooting since I figured it would help me ensure I was always aiming at the same spot, and could help me confirm I was anchoring the same (in order to have my peep and sight align). I wondered if my anchor could have been unknowingly raising and lowering between shots causing different tears. I placed the peep sight in the string, and temporarily tied around it with nock thread so it would come flying out until I was sure of where I wanted it.

Stepped back to 5', and fired a shot. Bullet-hole. Stepped back farther. What looked like a bullet-hole at distance had a very slight right-tear.

Everything on the bow was in spec. My arrows were the correct spine. I was aligning my peep with my sight, and making sure to consistently anchor the same. Therefore, I figured it had to be my grip.

Having read the following, right tear - add pressure on the thumb side / left tear - add pressure to the outer edge, I stepped back again, and added very slight pressure to the thumb. That slight right tear became a bullet-hole. I then stepped back farther. Bullet-hole.   

Final analysis: It's been repeatedly said here that good and consistent form is essential when shooting bare shafts. There seems to be so many factors that can result in a bare shaft tearing paper including grip and anchor. How else could I be shooting bullet-holes one day and not the next after changing nothing to the tune? 

After over-analyzing just about everything along the way , I guess my questions are: Is it correct to say that a bow can be tuned according to the manufacturer's specs, but ultimately it must then be tuned to a specific individual and his way of shooting (within reason)? If so, at what point do you attribute imperfect arrow flight to the shooter and not the bow so as to not start 'chasing your tail' changing the bow?


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## Kris87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Brewskis said:


> After over-analyzing just about everything along the way , I guess my questions are: Is it correct to say that a bow can be tuned according to the manufacturer's specs, but ultimately it must then be tuned to a specific individual and his way of shooting (within reason)? If so, at what point do you attribute imperfect arrow flight to the shooter and not the bow so as to not start 'chasing your tail' changing the bow?



Yes and no.  You're understanding it the same way I believe to be the correct way(which is only my thinking).  I believe you set it up to have the best power stroke possible, accounting for all the variables.  But then as you stated, you have the shooter involved.  You have high grips, low grips, face pressure, different releases, etc....all that stuff makes a difference.  So then I say you make small changes to try to account for those variables at the end.  I don't make wholesale changes to account for somebody's bad grip.  I then try to have them work on that variable rather than  moving the bow's specs all over the place.  Its not a science for sure....more of an art.


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## Brewskis (Feb 19, 2015)

Makes sense. I gotta say, I was pretty close to calling you the other evening, admitting defeat, and finding out when you could sort things out.

However, during my frustations, I was reading a lot here, and came across several posts (namely, this one from when you were tuning JT's bow, and this one from your write up on the Elite E32) that reminded me how the bow can be in tune, and the shooter could be the reason for the results (especially with bare shafts!). As they say, at a certain point 'it's not the arrow, it's the indian'.

I haven't really shot a lot in the past couple of months, and I'm wondering if that has contributed to my form breaking down (at least to a point where it's not consistent and repeatable). Having come to these realizations, and not feeling confident in the adjustments I had been making to the bow while I was 'chasing my tail' trying to fix tears, I reversed all those changes, and got the bow back to recommended specs.

Working on my form the past couple of days has yielded consistent bullet-holes through paper at various distances, and understanding why has contributed to a lot more confidence.

However, that leads to my next question. I remember watching one of GRIV's 'Thing A Week' videos on paper tuning recently where he said finally getting a bullet hole through paper, doesn't mean the bow is perfectly tuned, but that it means you're ready to start tuning the bow. The arrow is flying straight from the bow, but not necessarily grouping the best it can.

I've read about creep tuning, torque tuning, french tuning, modified french tuning, walk-back tuning, broadhead tuning, fletched with bareshaft tuning, etc.

What form of tuning you recommend moving onto now?


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## Brewskis (Feb 19, 2015)

Regarding tying in my peep, I have a few questions. 


Is there any advantage to tying the peep in with two separate knots (one above and one below) instead of tying one knot above and then weaving it down the string around the peep and then tying the second knot with one continuous piece of thread?


I recall you showing me how to tie the knots, but I can't recall how it's done. Is that the pull-through method Pasinthrough showed in this thread ? Or is it the standard closed end archery loop you mentioned, and would it be hard to explain how to tie it?


I noticed that the string is very tightly twisted right above where I had to separate the string, and insert the peep. Is this OK, or should a twist be taken out of the string before inserting and tying in the peep?

Left - Faktor 34 - Right - CS34:


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## Kris87 (Feb 19, 2015)

As far as the next tuning step, I typically don't do much more other than shoot a fletched and bareshaft at some type of distance.  20 yards is a long ways for most guys to shoot one, as I have mentioned many times.  You can work your way back if you want.  Of all the methods you mentioned, walk back tuning is the only method I really have ever done, but rarely see the need if my bow is tuned ok and I pay attention to my sight bubble.  If your bow is shooting a bareshaft well, and you have sufficient fletching, its going to shoot broadheads like darts.  

As far as the peep...everyone has their own preferred methods.  Some I tie with one piece and weave it through, but generally I just tie two separate knots, one above and one below.  I rarely even tie anything around the peep any longer.  You just don't want to pinch the string down too much around the peep, as it can cause rotation issues.  I don't know the names of the loops I use.  I use the same method using one piece and serve back over itself while unwrapping.  I don't use two pieces and wrap over a loop and pull it back through.  Just an extra step that I don't have to use.


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## pasinthrough (Feb 19, 2015)

I like the two knots better than the one.  If you need to move your peep a little, you don't need to untie it all the way to do it.  Peeps usually stay where you put them.

Congrats on doing all this yourself.  It's the only way you'll learn.


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## Brewskis (Feb 19, 2015)

That's a good reason for the two knots, Pasinthrough. And thanks. Glad to be learning how to do all of this, and couldn't be learning it without y'all's help.

Kris, I read today about back serving and it looked a lot like what you showed me and described earlier. Looks like it's another way of accomplishing the same knot in Pasinthrough's video without the braided loop.

I'm anxious to see how my bare shafts fly with fletched at distance, but I'm gonna have to wait for this weather to improve first.


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## Brewskis (Feb 20, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> I pay attention to my sight bubble.



Speaking of the sight bubble, which obviously helps with accuracy and consistency, I learned something that perhaps many of y'all already know, but if you didn't here it is.

I noticed the need to confirm the sight bubble level is actually showing true level when the sight arm and bow are plumb (assuming you like to hold the bow plumb when shooting). I believe this is referred to as 2nd axis leveling. Anyways, the Black Gold sights have two screws holding the level in place, and allow for adjustment. I had removed the level temporarily to swap out the sight ring, but I guess it'd be good to confirm this even from the manufacturer or previous owner if bought used.

Fortunately, this is easy to do using a small torpedo level held plumb forwards and backwards and side to side against the sight arm while adjusting the sight level to match.


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## Kris87 (Feb 20, 2015)

That's the correct way to do it.  I normally check my level with a level on the sight mounting bracket as well as one off the limb pockets to have two points of reference.  You won't notice much left/right misses at close distance, but it starts to grow exponentially at distance.


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## Kris87 (Feb 20, 2015)

Most right handed shooters cant the bow to the right, or in a clockwise rotation.


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## Brewskis (Feb 27, 2015)

OK, thanks for confirming, Kris.

Weather's supposed to nicer soon, so I'm looking forward to getting out and checking my arrow flight, namely bareshafts with fletched, at distance. In the meantime, since arrows have such a huge impact on how/if a bow tunes, I thought I'd post what I went with arrow-wise for this hunting setup. 

I decided to go long and heavy. The decision to go long was based on the broadhead I hunt with - Ramcats. They have flown and performed perfectly during my short time using them. However, I was having contact issues between my broadheads and the riser/shelf last season if I forgot to precisely index the blades a certain way (see this thread for more info). Therefore, I decided to eliminate that issue, and get a longer arrow. Doing so gave me the added benefit of a heavier arrow. I ended up with the following:

Easton Bloodline 330 
30.25" carbon-to-carbon
2" Blazer vanes w/ 1 degree right-hand offset
Easton HP insert
Nockturnal H nock

I plugged my current bow setups (Faktor 34 and CS 34 - 29.5" DL - 55 lb. DW) into the OnTarget2 software, and found I can shoot this arrow with either a 100 grain or 125 grain head without a significant impact on spine (0.012).

With a 100 grain head I have a F.O.C. of 10.00% and K.E. of 62.04. Finished arrow weight - 430
With a 125 grain head I have a F.O.C. of 12.23% and K.E. of 61.25. Finished arrow weight - 455

I don't have a chronograph, so I'm not sure on what kind of speeds I'll be getting with this arrow and my setups. I also don't know how accurate those internet calculators are, but I tried a couple out and they were saying between 265 to 275 FPS depending on if I go with a 100 grain or 125 grain head.


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## Brewskis (Feb 27, 2015)

BTW, I highly recommend Jerry at South Shore Archery for arrows. He tests every shaft, and finds the stiff side. He then marks them accordingly so that they can be repeatedly fletched the same way. This helps a lot with nock tuning. He also cuts, squares, and preps the shafts. In the case of the Bloodlines, which have factory cresting, he removes the factory cresting which I hear from several people can make it hard to re-fletch. He also gives the option of different wraps and lengths if you don't want to do this yourself. 

I've ordered two sets of arrows from him during the past year, and all of the above was included by him for just a negligible amount more than I would have paid for plain-jane, off-the-shelf arrows from somewhere else.


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## Brewskis (Mar 11, 2015)

Alright, finally able to do some shooting last evening. 

But before getting to that, I'll add that as previously mentioned a few weeks ago I had been getting a slight right tear. I was able to get rid of it by applying a bit more thumb-side pressure to the grip. However, I found that this was something I just couldn't get used to doing over and over again. I felt like I had a pretty good grip, so I decided to make a small change to the bow. I took a half twist out of the left yoke and put a half twist into the right. After doing this, I found that I could now grip the bow as I normally would, and no longer get that right tear. I forgot to check the bow specs and cam pre-lean afterwards, but did confirm the cam timing was still perfect. I felt that was a fairly insignificant change that wouldn't affect the tune. 

Fast-forward back to last night when I was finally able to confirm everything at longer distance. I started out shooting through paper just to make sure everything was still good. Got some fairly good holes at 5, 8, 12 feet.






I then shot a bareshaft with a fletched at 5 yards.






Based on what I'd seen so far, I decided to head outside, and start shooting bareshafts and fletched arrows at 20 yards.











Honestly, I was kinda surprised. I guess I was expecting to see at least more variation in nock direction between the bareshafts and fletched (there was an ever so slight nock left with the bareshafts). 

Not one to trust one sample, I decided to try it again.











Finally, what I had been waiting for happened. A bareshaft that didn't fly true. I removed that arrow, and shot it again after making a slight change to my form.






The result was better, but obviously still showing signs of something slightly off. So I made another slight change, and re-shot that same arrow.






Bingo! This was a good reminder for me of how there's little tolerance for bad form when you're shooting bareshafts downrange. A bareshaft will not lie to you. If you have a problem/inconsistency in your form, it is going to show.

As I mentioned before, I have not been shooting much since the season ended a couple months ago. Obviously, I was/am a little rusty in my form. I suppose this emphasizes the need for regular practice in order to ingrain a repeatable pre-shot routine.


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## Brewskis (Mar 11, 2015)

Afraid of having my feelings hurt by shooting a bareshaft any farther than 20 yards, I decided to shoot the fletched arrows at 25 yards and then 30 yards just to see what was happening. Here's a few pairs I shot a those distances.

25 yards:





30 yards:










As you can see I had a couple pairs at 30 yards that impacted right with each other, but with one arrow nock-left. Although I'm not always getting nock left, my 'misses' are consistently nock left (fletched and bareshaft). Not sure if this is attributable to form, or if there's a change I should make to my tune?

I'm also interested to find out how flight would have been affected with a broadhead on the front instead of a field point. I suppose that will be upcoming. I would have tried it last night, but I was shooting 125 grain FPs and have not bought any 125 grain Ramcats yet (actually haven't been able to find them at a local store, so I'll probably have to order some online). I'll post up results of that when I'm able to test it.

In the meantime, if there's any feedback/tips from the resident experts here on the results shown above, I'd be glad to hear it. Whereas overall I'm pleased with the results so far, I'm a first-timer at this, and hesitant to call the tune good.


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## Kris87 (Mar 11, 2015)

With flight that good, you could probably screw two Ramcats on the front and it would fly well.  

Seriously, you don't want to touch anything.  Those results are as good as anyone can expect.  That setup will shoot a fixed blade head like darts.  Don't worry.


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## Brewskis (Mar 11, 2015)

10-4  

I've got some 125 grain BHs on the way now. At this point, I'm going to proceed with serving my peep sight into the string, and wrapping up a few finishing touches.


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## Brewskis (Mar 12, 2015)

Alright, got my peep sight served into the string.






I started tying my knots about 1" above and below the peep as mentioned by Pasinthrough in his video. As mentioned by Kris, this is to help eliminate rotation issues due to pinching the string down too close around the peep.

I should also mention that a while back when I initially placed my peep in the string and then found the desired height, it was rotated to the right. I put one full twist into the string at the top cam, and this rotated the peep around to perfect alignment.

I also made sure that my sight housing ring was set where I wanted it before serving in the peep. This meant getting my 20 yard sight pin where I wanted it in the housing, and then sighting in that pin.


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## Brewskis (Mar 12, 2015)

A few other finishing touches I referred to earlier:

First, I trimmed my rest cord, but also made sure to leave a bit of excess in the event I ever need it. I took the excess, and just tied it off to the cord using a loose D-loop-style knot.






I then used a tip from this thread to ensure my rest cord wasn't flopping all over during the shot. I've found this especially important with my TightSpot quiver mount which sits very close to the riser and the rest cord. I don't even like to think of what might happen if that rest cord caught the mount or quiver in someway. Speaking of the quiver mount, I went ahead and threw that on.






I also used this AirShox/moleskin tip shown here to silent the initial squeak that happens when pulling back a Hoyt with AirShox for the first time.






Then I adjusted the string stop so that it was centered in front of the string, and just slightly touching it.






Finally, I re-tied my D-loop using a little bit of wax on the string to help lock down the knots, and prevent it from loosening/spinning on the string. I think next time I'm going to measure the length of the D-loop material needed for my specific D-loop, and cut a few of these lengths. That way if I have a D-loop break in the field or I simply want to replace the current one, I'll know that it will be the exact same length as before, and therefore not affect my anchor point.


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## hoyt44 (Mar 13, 2015)

good stuff thanks


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## Kris87 (Mar 13, 2015)

Those other threads you referenced sure have some good tips.


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## Brewskis (Mar 13, 2015)

hoyt44 said:


> good stuff thanks


I appreciate the feedback, glad to hear it! I've basically only documented what I've learned from others here. Hopefully, it's helpful to anyone else who has been thinking about do this. 



Kris87 said:


> Those other threads you referenced sure have some good tips.


Darn right. I've used just about every tip you've put out there. That and copied what you did with my Faktor 34.


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## Brewskis (Mar 18, 2015)

I got to thinking that some might want to weigh the cost of getting set up for DIY tuning with just taking it down to the local shop (if you have a local shop).

In my experience, a shop will set up and tune a bow that you buy from them. But what if you bought the bow somewhere else? Or maybe you just want to install a new custom string and cable set, new rest, or different size peep, etc.? Any of that will probably cost something. Some charge an arm and a leg. Others, like Kris, are extremely generous, and, in my opinion, undercut themselves. 

If money isn't the issue, then perhaps time is. Like Soybean mentioned in another thread, it stinks driving a long way just to have little/minor things taken care of. I don't have a Hoyt shop anywhere near me. Before finding out about Kris, I'd drive an hour and a half to Social Circle Ace. I found out about Kris last year, and he's a four hour round-trip for me. It's definitely worth the trip, but nonetheless, a lot of time. 

I did my best to breakdown the cost of everything I used to take my bow and accessories from off-the-shelf to hunt-ready.


Bench (built several years ago, so I estimated materials cost) - $35
Draw board (using 'plans' I found here on the forum and elsewhere on the internet) - ~$50
Scale - $34 - Amazon (Taylor Dial Style Industrial Hanging Scale - up to 70 lbs)
Scissors-style bow stand - $10 - Amazon (cheap substitute for a vise)
Bow press - $45 - Bass Pro (Bow Master)
Split limb L brackets for press (not necessary for some bows) - $20 - Amazon (Bow Master)
Bow square (I guess not necessary if you 'eyeball' it, but can be helpful - actually preferred the levels) - $10 - Amazon (Saunders Forked Horn Square)
Bow levels (Also not necessary if you 'eyeball' it, but were helpful to me as a beginner) - $23 - Amazon (R.S. Nok-EZ and Snap-on String Combo)
D-loop pliers (again not necessary, but were helpful) - $26 - Amazon (Viper Archery Products Loopset Pliers)
Pliers (needle-nose) - $3
Hex wrenches - $10
Calipers - $30 (ruler shown below could be used instead)
Small ruler - $2
D-loop material - $8 - Bass Pro (BCY #24 - Black - 39")
Nock point & peep tying thread - $9 - Bass Pro (BCY - Black - 75 yards)
String wax - $10 - Amazon (Scorpion Venom)
Lighter - $2 - Grocery store (never knew that stores check ID for lighters)
Knife (razor blade) - $2 - (I just used the Benchmade that's always in my pocket)
Level (torpedo) - $10
Paper tuner (homemade using Schedule 40 pipe) - $10
Bag target - $45
Total - $395
Minus stuff I already had - $160
--------------------------------------
My total - $235

Maybe you already have some of this stuff like I did, so that'll cut your cost right off the bat. In my case, I already had the bench, bow stand, needle-nose pliers, hex wrenches, calipers, ruler, wax, knife, level, and target, so the total outlay was $235. However, I could have done without the square (and only used the levels) and D-loop pliers (and only used the needle-nose pliers) and reduced the cost down to $200.

Great thing about this one-time investment (aside from expendable items such as D-loop material, nock thread, etc.) is that seasonal tuning, string and cable installations, bow adjustments, etc. can be readily done at home at your convenience. Also, several items (e.g. bench, tools, etc.) can serve 'double-duty' for other non-archery-related tasks. If you're already a lifetime bow hunter (not to mention 3-D or target archer), this is a pretty small price to pay to be self-sufficient (with the help of this DIY forum, of course).


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## Kris87 (Mar 18, 2015)

This is one of the best threads on the forum.  It compliments all the reasons I post the things I do, which is to help other archers.  You will be able to pass your knowledge onto others as well.  Good job buddy!


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## Brewskis (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks, Kris. Couldn't have done it without your help, and I can't say enough about your willingness to help others. That combined with your knowledge, and it's easy to see why Satchmo said he couldn't think of a better person to moderate this forum. Only thing is, I feel bad if this thread cuts into the beer money you make tuning bows on the side. If you end up planning another pre-season shoot/get-together like last year, I'd like to try and make it, and I'll bring some brewskis.

BTW, got my Ramcats, and squeezed in a few shots last evening.This isn't to say I doubted you when he said they'd fly like darts right along with my FPs. Just confirmation. 

20 yards FP and BH:






30 yards FP and BH:





40 yards FP and BH. Had not dialed in that pin yet, but got it pretty close before shooting (had to shoot from an angle to back up enough):





To the other guys who chimed in along the way, I'd like to say 'thanks!' Thanks to David Alligood for the vote of confidence right off the bat! Thanks to Soybean, C Cape and Pasinthrough for y'all's input along the way. Also to DABAU for helping me feel like I'm not the only one who was trying to make sense of all of this.

Was kinda sad to see this project come to an end, but very happy with the final result. Brought back to mind the first time I rebuilt the top-end on my YZ. It's something a lot of people can probably do blindfolded. Then again, it's something a lot of people can screw up beyond repair. Definitely something anyone can do with the right tools, resources, time and patience. And what a great feeling after kicking it over the first time, and hearing that sweet two-stroke sing. Not to mentioned the hundreds of dollars still in your pocket.

Obviously, this thread doesn't cover everything there is to know about tuning, but it has successfully helped me as complete novice to bow setup and tuning take a bow from the box to a tuned dart-shooter. Not only that, but also provided me with a better understanding of how everything works and how to troubleshoot and fix different things. And nothing beats the feeling of DIY. 

Again, I hope this thread is able to help anyone else who has been thinking about taking this kind of project or just looking for help with a step along the way.


I guess the only question I can think of now is how many days until the season starts?


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## devils12 (Aug 2, 2015)

I am trying this for the first time now. I have checked the sync and bottom cam is actually ahead. Center shot is 3/4". I am getting a high left tear. If I put a twist in the cable, is it the one on the left from the shooter side? Thanks in advance!


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## devils12 (Aug 16, 2015)

Just to clear up the above. I tried it from the shooter side after no response and got it all worked out. Just wanted to be sure that when you said to put a twist in the left cable, it was from behind the bow. I know it was probably a dumb question but I wanted to be sure before I started. Worked out good and thanks for the advise!


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## Brewskis (Aug 8, 2016)

flynlow said:


> If this is a 1st timers thread, I'm in trouble already. I was gaining interest in learning how to use my sons bow but now I'm thinking I may need to stick to my guns so to speak. Either that, or maybe I'll just learn how to shoot it 1st and let the experts do the tuning!



Aw, c'mon man! Only way to learn is to give it a shot (approaching pun overload in this post).

I do know how you feel, but I can confirm that this thread works. A buddy bought a new bow near the end of last season, and I offered to help him set it up and tune it back then. However, a year and a half had passed since I started this thread, and about a year since I had last set up and tuned one of my bows after swapping the cables and string. 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't forget most of what I had learned back then. Fortunately, re-reading and following this thread helped me set it up and get it shooting darts. Then again, he bought a Hoyt, and tuning them is pretty straight forward and easy. 

Here are a few notes on the bow and how it went (Disclaimer: Whereas, the bow is shooting darts and I tried my best to accurately document what I did, I hope my dyslexia didn't result in transposing any steps/figures below. If so, hopefully the resident experts here on the forum will step in to correct me).


2015 Hoyt Charger
50-60 lb. DW
27.5" DL (#3 cam)
31" A2A
6.75" BH







I started by bottoming out the limb bolts, and checking the max DW on a scale. It was coming up short around 58.5 lbs. I checked the cam timing and the bottom was ahead of the top (typical for a Hoyt straight out the box based on what I've read). Based on the lower DW and the cam timing, I went in and out of the press a few times and ultimately ended up with three full twists added to the bottom of the buss cable and 1 full twist added to the top of the control cable.  Result was max DW hitting 60 lbs. and the top cam being ahead by about 1/8". (Taking twists out of the control cable advances the top cam, or putting twists into the buss cable or yokes advances the top cam, and increases draw weight and draw length)


Moved on to mounting the rest (all the way forward, center of arrow shaft to center of berger hole, eyeballed it level, mark the string with a silver sharpie where the nock was) 


Tied in soft nocks


Set the centershot at 3/4" (interestingly, it ended up tuning slightly closer in towards the riser)


Tied rest cord to limb using D-loop knot. Can't say enough about how easy it is to set up limbdriven rests. I liked the QADs I've had in the past, but setup is definitely more complicated tying it into the bow cable and getting it timed perfectly. I'm not even sure how/if I'd be able to repair it in the field if the need arose.


Tied D-loop. Forgot to lightly wax the ends of the loop, and I was reminded of this oversight when the loop started to turn on me after a few shots. Easy fix.


Checked the bow specs. Axle-to-axle distance, brace height, draw weight, and draw length were all either hitting spec or very close.


I shot the bow a few times with a bareshaft through paper. I was getting a pretty dramatic high left tear. I knew the arrow spine was appropriate for the bow setup, so I checked the cam sync again and verified it was still close to where it needed to be. I then remembered the next step.


I checked for cam lean at brace by laying an arrow on the left side of the top cam. The arrow didn't even intersect the string. It just ran parallel to it. Reviewing this thread reminded me that a good starting point is for the arrow to intersect the string at the D-loop. I also saw that adding twists to the left yoke will tune out a high left tear. (Right tear put twist in the Right Yoke, Left Tear put twist in the left yoke. If cam timing and DW were good, I thought I recalled needing to make sure when ever you put twists in one side, to take equal twists out of the other side. However, I didn't seem to need to do that in this case). 

Four full twists to the left yoke resulted in the cam prelean being where the arrow laid against the top cam crossed behind the string at the D-loop, and the high left tear was now only slightly high. I got rid of that little bit of nock high by moving the rest up a smidge.


Shot the bareshaft several times through paper again, and was getting bullet hole after bullet hole. Sweet. 







Mounted sight, stabilizer, etc. Added a little nock thread to keep the rest cord from catching on anything at full draw.


Determined peep sight location so that I could check arrow flight at distance, but am waiting to serve it in until my buddy can confirm location of it for himself.


Went outside and shot some arrows at 10, 20, and 30 yards, and was very pleased with the results.

















Even though I was getting great arrow flight from bareshafts both inside through paper and outside at about 10 yards, I shot one broadhead (Ramcat) to make sure they were also flying straight. Forgot to take a photo of that one.

So I hope this thread is giving some of y'all the confidence to dip your toe in the water or even dive right in to bow setup and tuning. It's nice being able to work on and maintain your own stuff and comes with the added benefit of being able to help others out.


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## Kris87 (Aug 8, 2016)

Glad to see you have retained all of that knowledge.  It is much easier when you do a lot of bows, as repetition is the best way to learn.  You sure do keep great notes.  I'm bad at that.  I think I'm better at video now.


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## Brewskis (Aug 9, 2016)

Some more practice would be nice. Doubt my wife would buy that as an excuse for buying a new bow every few months. I was shocked at how quickly she noticed and questioned me about a third bow hanging from the ceiling in the garage. 

I hear ya about the videos. Keep 'em coming.


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## Mavren (Aug 29, 2016)

The information in this thread helped me when I was diving into a brand new string swap for the first time with my Bowtech Insanity.  I'm still running those same strings but the bow is shooting darts!  I'm glad the thread is still here though because I use it from time to time to refresh the ye ol' memory when I have to go in to make adjustments.


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