# Ahahahahaha.....



## WaltL1 (Nov 9, 2020)




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## Artfuldodger (Nov 10, 2020)

He may be having a spell of "Holy Laughter!"


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## Spotlite (Nov 11, 2020)

My cousin is a laughing Baptist. He said it’s a sign of a joyful heart. My question to him was  “are professional mourners really sad? 

I mean really, if you’re making yourself do it......


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## gordon 2 (Nov 11, 2020)

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## atlashunter (Nov 29, 2020)

Copeland may have picked this up from Kenneth Hagin. You can see a younger version of Copeland in this video at a Hagin led service.






Notice that Hagin says this is the first time they had a manifestation like this and also notice the manifestation just happened to come in the same service where he first gives an explanation from scripture why they might be expected to act this way. I never saw this in person but did grow up in churches like this. I even remember Hagin visiting our church in Fort Worth in the 80’s. He was a highly revered faith healer and would anoint “prayer cloths” that could then be taken to heal an ailing friend or family member. I remember someone left a piece of plastic at the alter and they said that it wouldn’t work with plastic, that it had to be cloth. Even as a kid that struck me as odd. It’s pretty interesting to observe this behavior. There is something psychological going on there that I still don’t really understand even though I grew up immersed in it.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


>



Jeez.    On the optimistic side, this put's the Crusades and Inquisition in a better light by comparison.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 29, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Copeland may have picked this up from Kenneth Hagin. You can see a younger version of Copeland in this video at a Hagin led service.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK.  You win.  Hand him the trophy.  I don't thing that one can be topped.  I simply never.......smh.



> There is something psychological going on there that I still don’t really understand



Ya reckon???  I call it stupid, but that's not exactly a psychological condition as much as it is an intellectual one.  Apparently judging by the expressions on their faces these poor, misguided, souls conception of God is someone who turns everyone he 'touches' into a Mayberry RFD character.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Copeland may have picked this up from Kenneth Hagin. You can see a younger version of Copeland in this video at a Hagin led service.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are the type of services / preachers / etc that I walk out / away from and go to the Waffle House.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> Those are the type of services / preachers / etc that I walk out / away from and go to the Waffle House.



Yeah... if only this was the most nutty thing christians did and believed in.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Why are so many in that crowd taking part? Are they all faking? And why isn’t this more widespread among Christians?


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Yeah... if only this was the most nutty thing christians did and believed in.


I’m sure you’re considered nutty by some folk - just consider the source.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Why are so many in that crowd taking part? Are they all faking? And why isn’t this more widespread among Christians?


That crowd is a crowd of like minded people.

Because most of us know them that labor among us.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> There is something psychological going on there that I still don’t really understand even though I grew up immersed in it.





atlashunter said:


> why isn’t this more widespread among Christians?


Rather than try to paint Christianity as “nutty” -  ever think that even Christians can see through folks also?

But, there really is something psychological going on with those that think “there’s something nutty with you because your  conclusions differ from mine” it’s called the little man syndrome  They’re usually those throwing labels on folks


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## WaltL1 (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> Those are the type of services / preachers / etc that I walk out / away from and go to the Waffle House.


Having grown up Catholic, where the funniest thing that happened during a service was.... well..... nothing, I cant even imagine this kind of thing going on.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> Rather than try to paint Christianity as “nutty” -  ever think that even Christians can see through folks also?
> 
> But, there really is something psychological going on with those that think “there’s something nutty with you because your  conclusions differ from mine” it’s called the little man syndrome  They’re usually those throwing labels on folks



So you take issue with anyone calling that nutty? Is there some other way you would prefer to characterize it to paint it in a better light? I suspect if these were sheep of another flock you wouldn't be quite so defensive.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> That crowd is a crowd of like minded people.
> 
> Because most of us know them that labor among us.



If you know them maybe you could shed some light on the questions I asked. What exactly is going on with those people? Are they acting? Being disingenuous? Going with the crowd? Falling under the power of suggestion of the preacher? Or is that really the spirit of god working on them? Or is it demonic spirits working on them? I've heard christians make that claim too. What do you make of it?


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> So you take issue with anyone calling that nutty? Is there some other way you would prefer to characterize it to paint it in a better light? I suspect if these were sheep of another flock you wouldn't be quite so defensive.


I take issue with you referring to Christianity as nutty. Just because someone is Christian doesn’t mean they never do anything that just doesn’t make sense or isn’t correct. They’re still human, they learn as they grow. But if I pointed this video out first you’d been accusing me of judging saying “they’re not real Christians”. But since you pointed it out, then “Yeah... if only this was the most nutty thing christians did and believed in”.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> If you know them maybe you could shed some light on the questions I asked. What exactly is going on with those people? Are they acting? Being disingenuous? Going with the crowd? Falling under the power of suggestion of the preacher? Or is that really the spirit of god working on them? Or is it demonic spirits working on them? I've heard christians make that claim too. What do you make of it?


I picked up on the “something isn’t right” with those in that video just like you did. There’s nothing Christian about recognizing that. 

I don’t know what’s going on, I just know it don’t feel / sound right.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Yeah... if only this was the most nutty thing christians did and believed in.



You know Atlas, I gotta ask “ Are Christians and Blacks the only 2 classes of people you insult routinely, or are we just at the top of your list when you feel the need to denigrate someone else in order to feel better about who you are?


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> I picked up on the “something isn’t right” with those in that video just like you did. There’s nothing Christian about recognizing that.
> 
> I don’t know what’s going on, I just know it don’t feel / sound right.



Exactly the impression many christian beliefs and practices make on nonbelievers. But that point aside it does leave one to wonder why the disparate experiences between people following and supposedly in communication with the same god.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You know Atlas, I gotta ask “ Are Christians and Blacks the only 2 classes of people you insult routinely, or are we just at the top of your list when you feel the need to denigrate someone else in order to feel better about who you are?



I addressed actions and beliefs as being nutty. Why do you prefer that be taken as an attack on the people themselves rather than their actions and beliefs? Is this the part where if the shoe were on the other foot we say love the sinner but hate the sin? Speaking of denigrating people, nobody here has said anything more denigrating toward them than what you did in post #7.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Why are so many in that crowd taking part? Are they all faking? And why isn’t this more widespread among Christians?


I think those ^ are reasonable questions. And they got me to pondering....
It may/possibly have uncovered some hypocritical thinking on my part.
When I watch the vid you posted my immediate reaction is "what I see is a bunch of wacky, ridiculous, fake, crap". It even insults that little bit of left over Catholic indoctrination I have left in me.
Then the thought struck me -
When I see a video of a back woods, old school Baptist African American church where they get "moved by the Lord" and get to dancing and carrying on.... I completely understand it, accept it, approve of it and have even participated in it (seriously).
In other words I see it completely opposite. Not sure why.
Those exact same questions- could apply.


> Why are so many in that crowd taking part? Are they all faking? And why isn’t this more widespread among Christians?


Done rambling now just letting you know your questions inspired some thought.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Exactly the impression many christian beliefs and practices make on nonbelievers. But that point aside it does leave one to wonder why the disparate experiences between people following and supposedly in communication with the same god.


Who’s wondering? I think scripture is very clear that there will be those that pervert the gospel / etc. You continue to fail in recognizing human error. Yet you want so bad that every Christian will fit the bill of these radicals out there.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I think those ^ are reasonable questions. And they got me to pondering....
> It may/possibly have uncovered some hypocritical thinking on my part.
> When I watch the vid you posted my immediate reaction is "what I see is a bunch of wacky, ridiculous, fake, crap". It even insults that little bit of left over Catholic indoctrination I have left in me.
> Then the thought struck me -
> ...


While I agree, I think it’s just fair to point out that if a Christian made that statement we are then judging and reminded that those “people are following and supposedly in communication with the same god”. Rather than admitting that there are just some fake crap out there, all Christians are stained with the broad brush of someone’s intolerance for religion.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> Who’s wondering? I think scripture is very clear that there will be those that pervert the gospel / etc. You continue to fail in recognizing human error. Yet you want so bad that every Christian will fit the bill of these radicals out there.



Are they engaging in a perversion of scripture?  Dollars to donuts there are believers who would level the same accusation at whatever your particular interpretation of scripture happens to be. If this is an entirely human enterprise, well intended or not, then absent some divine intervention this is exactly what I would expect. But when you claim to be following the inerrant word of god and in communication with that god that sort of raises the bar.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> I take issue with you referring to Christianity as nutty.



Don’t.  If it wasn’t Christian or Blacks it would be someone else.  It's the cardinal sign of someone with a low self-worth/ self esteem.  The person has a gaping void in his appraisal of himself and a self-loathing that is only bearable as long as that anger and resentment can be projected outward in an attempt to make him feel better about himself.  It most likely resulted from a childhood emotional trauma as that would explain the stunted emotional maturity as demonstrated by his name calling.  In other words he never emotionally matured much past 8-9 years old.  In short, he's to be pitied just as we would a sick person, not resented.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 30, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> Having grown up Catholic, where the funniest thing that happened during a service was.... well..... nothing, I cant even imagine this kind of thing going on.



You're looking at it all wrong.  Look at it like a traveling circus with no admission fee.  Go catch a show.  If you're lucky they'll have free chicken dinner afterwards.  YOU LITERLLY CANT BEAT THE PRICE TO ENTERTAINMENT VALUE RATIO.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Ya reckon???  I call it stupid, but that's not exactly a psychological condition as much as it is an intellectual one.  Apparently judging by the expressions on their faces these poor, misguided, souls conception of God is someone who turns everyone he 'touches' into a Mayberry RFD character.
> View attachment 1052755





SemperFiDawg said:


> Don’t.  If it wasn’t Christian or Blacks it would be someone else.  It's the cardinal sign of someone with a low self-worth/ self esteem.  The person has a gaping void in his appraisal of himself and a self-loathing that is only bearable as long as that anger and resentment can be projected outward in an attempt to make him feel better about himself.  It most likely resulted from a childhood emotional trauma as that would explain the stunted emotional maturity as demonstrated by his name calling.  In other words he never emotionally matured much past 8-9 years old.  In short, he's to be pitied just as we would a sick person, not resented.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> While I agree, I think it’s just fair to point out that if a Christian made that statement we are then judging and reminded that those “people are following and supposedly in communication with the same god”. Rather than admitting that there are just some fake crap out there, all Christians are stained with the broad brush of someone’s intolerance for religion.



Fake crap where? In the church? Give that one some thought.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> I addressed actions and beliefs as being nutty. Why do you prefer that be taken as an attack on the people themselves rather than their actions and beliefs? Is this the part where if the shoe were on the other foot we say love the sinner but hate the sin? Speaking of denigrating people, nobody here has said anything more denigrating toward them than what you did in post #7.









> I call it stupid


 was a direct reference to the video material, which was quoted..... but we all know that. 

Your


> Yeah... if only this was the most nutty thing christians did and believed in.



is a broad generalization plain and simple, as you are so apt to do....and we all know that also.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> was a direct reference to the video material, which was quoted..... but we all know that.
> 
> Your
> 
> ...



It was a direct characterization of the intellectual condition of “those poor misguided souls” as you so snidely put it. I didn’t go anywhere near as far as you did. Now come down off that high horse.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Are they engaging in a perversion of scripture?  Dollars to donuts there are believers who would level the same accusation at whatever your particular interpretation of scripture happens to be. If this is an entirely human enterprise, well intended or not, then absent some divine intervention this is exactly what I would expect. But when you claim to be following the inerrant word of god and in communication with that god that sort of raises the bar.


The “etc” covers false prophets, those that are leaning unto their own understanding, those that he says he will say he never knew.

I have no doubt that there are those that disagree with me. I’m sure those in the video is as good a place as any to identify a few.

The inherit word of God remains. How you and I use it differs. That doesn’t make either us right and certainly doesn’t make the word of God wrong.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Fake crap where? In the church? Give that one some thought.



Lol gotta love the sarcasm. You’re continuing to make the point of “someone’s intolerance for religion” 
There’s fake crap in everything dude, everything. You’re not exempt.


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## Spotlite (Nov 30, 2020)

Last one


atlashunter said:


> Give that one some thought.





atlashunter said:


> But when you claim to be following the inerrant word of god and in communication with that god that sort of raises the bar.


You’re so hung up in your own fantasy of proving religion wrong lol - think about the inherit Word of God....... read 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2, particular thoughts to verse 11. Just when you think you have  this figured out, self check yourself and give that one some thought.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> The “etc” covers false prophets, those that are leaning unto their own understanding, those that he says he will say he never knew.
> 
> I have no doubt that there are those that disagree with me. I’m sure those in the video is as good a place as any to identify a few.
> 
> The inherit word of God remains. How you and I use it differs. That doesn’t make either us right and certainly doesn’t make the word of God wrong.



You’re so caught up trying to defend the faith and dissociate from those in the video or at least what they are doing I think you’re really not giving the matter the consideration it warrants. Hagin and Copeland are false prophets? How do you know this and why don’t the large number of christians who find them to be men of god know it? This is not a small number of people we are talking about. It’s not “a few” as you say. Copeland and Hagin both built ministries that have huge followings of Christians that lasted for decades. How can that be when they are reading the same Bible and communicating with the same god you are? Do you have special gifts of understanding they lack? If so many can be deceived and not only that but actively perpetuate the deception on this one point, why should anyone have confidence in the rest of it or in their own interpretation? And where is the divine revelation that keeps so many from erring in such a way? For those who realize there is no divine revelation to be had there is no mystery. We see the great diversity of beliefs and practices we should expect. That’s what we expect from human fallibility. But for those who do believe they are divinely led this is a massive elephant in the room. It’s not what one should expect from those guided by an inerrant book and the divine revelation of an inerrant being.


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## atlashunter (Nov 30, 2020)

To put it another way, it’s not only that some (including other Christians) might look at these videos and say the music sounds pretty off key. It’s also that in spite of looking at the same sheet music and claiming to be under the direction of the same inerrant conductor you can’t even agree between yourselves what the right notes are.


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> To put it another way, it’s not only that some (including other Christians) might look at these videos and say the music sounds pretty off key. It’s also that in spite of looking at the same sheet music and claiming to be under the direction of the same inerrant conductor you can’t even agree between yourselves what the right notes are.


Key word. With the knowledge you seem to possess I’m not sure how you can quote scripture with enough confidence that you’re knowledgeable enough to debate it and still be loster than a ball in high weeds knowing that same word warns you that people will do exactly what’s got you questioning things.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> Key word. With the knowledge you seem to possess I’m not sure how you can quote scripture with enough confidence that you’re knowledgeable enough to debate it and still be loster than a ball in high weeds knowing that same word warns you that people will do exactly what’s got you questioning things.



You just made my point. We have a lot of folks making contradictory claims. All of them insisting they’ve got it right and the others got it wrong. All of them claiming to have divine guidance. Exactly what one would expect if there were no divine guidance at all. Worse in fact. You can get a greater consensus out of people following a shop manual than you can out of people following the Bible and praying for divine guidance.


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> You just made my point. We have a lot of folks making contradictory claims. All of them insisting they’ve got it right and the others got it wrong. All of them claiming to have divine guidance. Exactly what one would expect if there were no divine guidance at all. Worse in fact. You can get a greater consensus out of people following a shop manual than you can out of people following the Bible and praying for divine guidance.


You made mine, too!!


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> You made mine, too!!



Glad we are in agreement that a great number of Christians are not as connected to the divine as they tell others they are. Of course that doesn’t apply to you does it?


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Glad we are in agreement that a great number of Christians are not as connected to the divine as they tell others they are. Of course that doesn’t apply to you does it?


We are definitely in agreement that “some” are not as connected, and some can’t comprehend that you don’t even have to be a Christian to pick up a Bible and use it as a tool to justify your actions / agenda. That doesn’t mean the Word is wrong. You’d have to be about as sharp as a bowling ball to think that people won’t misuse it, especially if the Word warns you that there’ll be those that will.


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## WaltL1 (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> While I agree, I think it’s just fair to point out that if a Christian made that statement we are then judging and reminded that those “people are following and supposedly in communication with the same god”. Rather than admitting that there are just some fake crap out there, all Christians are stained with the broad brush of someone’s intolerance for religion.


I agree that happens and I agree its not fair or accurate.
An example would be Westboro Baptist. Not a Christian I personally know wants to be put under the same umbrella as them. Just like I dont want to be put under the same umbrella as some Atheist views.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> We are definitely in agreement that “some” are not as connected, and some can’t comprehend that you don’t even have to be a Christian to pick up a Bible and use it as a tool to justify your actions / agenda. That doesn’t mean the Word is wrong. You’d have to be about as sharp as a bowling ball to think that people won’t misuse it, especially if the Word warns you that there’ll be those that will.



Is that what is happening in that video? All of those people and all who follow the ministry of Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin are misusing the bible? Who else? Catholics? Pentecostals? Evangelicals? All the churches that speak in tongues? The ones that engage in faith healing? Or exorcisms? Or killing people suspected of witchcraft and sorcery? How about the ones who have accepted homosexuality? How about the Greek orthodox church? The Russian orthodox? Who really has it right all the way down the line? The baptists? The methodists? It's not just "some" that are in disagreement on the correct understanding of scripture. No matter how you slice it there are hundreds of millions of christians who have it bad wrong. That's in the best case scenario where one of those groups has it right. Add to this the fact that scripture itself is not consistent and contains forgeries and contradictions. And yet somehow it's still inerrant, right? And you talk to god and he talks to you and guides you on the right path that others who do the same still somehow get wrong. If we read the comments on those videos some will say it's the holy spirit. Others will say it's demonic spirits. Others will say it's "fake crap". Others will say it's a phenomena of mass psychology. Maybe one of those claims is true but they can't all be true. Of necessity, most of them are wrong. To get it wrong is human. I expect that. But if you're going to claim inerrancy and divine revelation in doing so you're setting a higher expectation.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I agree that happens and I agree its not fair or accurate.
> An example would be Westboro Baptist. Not a Christian I personally know wants to be put under the same umbrella as them. Just like I dont want to be put under the same umbrella as some Atheist views.



That's true but on the other hand Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin are not comparable to Fred Phelps.


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## SemperFiDawg (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> That's true but on the other hand Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin are not comparable to Fred Phelps.



The very fact that you acknowledge your ability to discern the difference is just another indictment that your attempt to paint all Christianity with one brush is based on bitterness.  It may be well deserved.  I don't know.  However you feigning ignorance over your inability to discern "which belief is true",  while in the next breath validating your ability to discern (in this case between Fred Phelps and and Copeland/Hagin) is seen by all as exactly what it is; childish duplicity.


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> The very fact that you acknowledge your ability to discern the difference is just another indictment that your attempt to paint all Christianity with one brush is based on bitterness.  It may be well deserved.  I don't know.  However you feigning ignorance over your inability to discern "which belief is true",  while in the next breath validating your ability to discern (in this case between Fred Phelps and and Copeland/Hagin) is seen by all as exactly what it is; childish duplicity.


Bingo


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> 1. Who really has it right all the way down the line? 2. To get it wrong is human. 3. you're setting a higher expectation.


1. Many are called, few are chosen. You claim to know the Bible, yet you’re looking for answers that are already contained within scripture. But, I don’t know who based on labels - the fruits of their labor will reveal it.

2. Yes. Nothing but flesh.

3. I haven’t set any expectations. Being the inherit word of God has nothing to do with #2. If you told your kid to clean his room a certain way and he did it his way, who’s wrong?


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## SemperFiDawg (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Is that what is happening in that video? All of those people and all who follow the ministry of Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin are misusing the bible? Who else? Catholics? Pentecostals? Evangelicals? All the churches that speak in tongues? The ones that engage in faith healing? Or exorcisms? Or killing people suspected of witchcraft and sorcery? How about the ones who have accepted homosexuality? How about the Greek orthodox church? The Russian orthodox? Who really has it right all the way down the line? The baptists? The methodists?.



Even if every one of them are false, it doesn't absolve you from seeking a relationship with God.  You have demonstrated enough discernment to indicate you are liable for your own actions.  God seeks a relationship with each individual person.  Throw all the religion out the window, all of it, and that fact still exists.  The only thing that is keeping you from doing it is YOUR will.  And that's the truth.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> The very fact that you acknowledge your ability to discern the difference is just another indictment that your attempt to paint all Christianity with one brush is based on bitterness.  It may be well deserved.  I don't know.  However you feigning ignorance over your inability to discern "which belief is true",  while in the next breath validating your ability to discern (in this case between Fred Phelps and and Copeland/Hagin) is seen by all as exactly what it is; childish duplicity.



Once again...






The differentiation between Phelps and the other two is not who has their theology right. I've made no argument about who is right but rather pointed out the glaring fact you can't agree on scriptural understanding amongst yourselves even though you are all claiming to be guided by an inerrant being. The differentiation between those preachers is that Phelps church consisted mostly of his own family. Not so much because of his theology but because he was an awful salesman. Copeland and Hagin on the other hand were both well within the mainstream of the American evangelical movement for decades. That's not painting with a broad brush. That's just the fact of the matter. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of evangelical christians put themselves under the umbrella of those ministries. I didn't put them there. They did. The accusation that I've painted with a broad brush doesn't hold up when the fact is throughout this thread I've been pointing out the great diversity of theological differences between different christian groups.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> 1. Many are called, few are chosen. You claim to know the Bible, yet you’re looking for answers that are already contained within scripture. But, I don’t know who based on labels - the fruits of their labor will reveal it.



Perhaps you missed it but the beginning of that video Hagin is quoting scripture to support what follows. Now you can say he's got it wrong and he would say you got it wrong. Fine. I don't have a dog in that fight. My point all along is that you both may be wrong but you can't both be right. On this and many other questions of theology. And if you're both praying for and receiving understanding from god then the question remains, from whence so much disagreement?






Spotlite said:


> 3. I haven’t set any expectations. Being the inherit word of God has nothing to do with #2. If you told your kid to clean his room a certain way and he did it his way, who’s wrong?



Do you talk to god and does he talk to you? That sets an expectation of understanding that goes beyond what we should expect absent divine guidance.


BTW... the word you're looking for is inerrant, not inherit.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Even if every one of them are false, it doesn't absolve you from seeking a relationship with God.  You have demonstrated enough discernment to indicate you are liable for your own actions.  God seeks a relationship with each individual person.  Throw all the religion out the window, all of it, and that fact still exists.  The only thing that is keeping you from doing it is YOUR will.  And that's the truth.



Perhaps it is. Perhaps it's not. The way I see it, if such a deity exists it's entirely up to them whether or not they make themselves known. It would be within their power to make themselves known in an undeniable manner. Also within their power to remain unknown in spite of my best efforts to find them. The ball is in their court. So far, nothing. Doesn't prove they aren't there but it's what I would expect if they weren't which leads me to the conclusion that in all probability they aren't. Same logic applies to every other mythical creature man has ever dreamed up.


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## The Original Rooster (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Perhaps it is. Perhaps it's not. The way I see it, if such a deity exists it's entirely up to them whether or not they make themselves known. It would be within their power to make themselves known in an undeniable manner. Also within their power to remain unknown in spite of my best efforts to find them. The ball is in their court. So far, nothing. Doesn't prove they aren't there but it's what I would expect if they weren't which leads me to the conclusion that in all probability they aren't. Same logic applies to every other mythical creature man has ever dreamed up.


Atlas, I hope you find what you're looking for and I assume you're looking for the truth. Personally, I believe God comes to everyone in a way that makes sense to them and possibly only to them.
I would recommend avoiding doctrines, theologies, and denominations at this point. They only muddy the waters and make it difficult to understand what should be simple, or at least is simple to me right now. God IS real and wants a relationship with us and all we have to do is to seek that relationship. I wish you well on your search for truth.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

RoosterTodd said:


> Atlas, I hope you find what you're looking for and I assume you're looking for the truth. Personally, I believe God comes to everyone in a way that makes sense to them and possibly only to them.
> I would recommend avoiding doctrines, theologies, and denominations at this point. They only muddy the waters and make it difficult to understand what should be simple, or at least is simple to me right now. God IS real and wants a relationship with us and all we have to do is to seek that relationship. I wish you well on your search for truth.



Yes sir. What is true is what matters most IMO.


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## Spotlite (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Perhaps you missed it but the beginning of that video Hagin is quoting scripture to support what follows. Now you can say he's got it wrong and he would say you got it wrong. Fine. I don't have a dog in that fight. My point all along is that you both may be wrong but you can't both be right. On this and many other questions of theology. And if you're both praying for and receiving understanding from god then the question remains, from whence so much disagreement?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps you missed the “using the Bible as a tool” part?? You also use scripture when it’s convenient to push your agenda - so are you Christian? I’m not sure you understand divine guidance, nowhere does it indicate that man CANT goof it up,

Thanks for the spell check


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## SemperFiDawg (Dec 1, 2020)

RoosterTodd said:


> Atlas, I hope you find what you're looking for and I assume you're looking for the truth. Personally, I believe God comes to everyone in a way that makes sense to them and possibly only to them.
> I would recommend avoiding doctrines, theologies, and denominations at this point. They only muddy the waters and make it difficult to understand what should be simple, or at least is simple to me right now. God IS real and wants a relationship with us and all we have to do is to seek that relationship. I wish you well on your search for truth.



Agree completely.  Look on a personal level.  Forget everything religion has told you.  You will find he is everything the church says he is and but nothing they say he is.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> I’m not sure you understand divine guidance, nowhere does it indicate that man CANT goof it up,



Then why should anyone take seriously the claims of inerrancy or divinely inspired revelation? Those claims lose credibility when the errors and contradictions are pointed out and we are told to just chalk it up to human fallibility. You can't have it both ways. Once you set the bar that low then your religion becomes no more credible than any other.


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## The Original Rooster (Dec 1, 2020)

atlashunter said:


> Then why should anyone take seriously the claims of inerrancy or divinely inspired revelation? Those claims lose credibility when the errors and contradictions are pointed out and we are told to just chalk it up to human fallibility. You can't have it both ways. Once you set the bar that low then your religion becomes no more credible than any other.


Yes, there are all sorts of false prophets. Some with good intentions who believe they are doing the right thing but just don't know any better and some who know they're doing wrong but just don't care. 
There's nothing wrong with some healthy skepticism around folks who proclaim they've found "the way" or that "God told me to". A good litmus test is what are they trying to do and how are they going about it? Anything other than helping others find and build a relationship with God and living in that life is worth being suspicious over.
I believe the only way to reconcile some of the contradictions and errors you find in the Bible is by your own intensive study. That way it can make sense to you and not just be something that a church tells you that you must believe. The Bible is full of people who questioned God so you're not alone.


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## atlashunter (Dec 1, 2020)

Think we've beat on this one long enough. Thanks for the conversation. Looks like it's been quiet in here lately.


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