# whats the deal wtih randy wakeman?



## RipperIII

dude seems awfully biased against CVA/powerbelt?


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## FERAL ONE

always has been...  just tryin' to sell his brand. i have been pleased with my several cva's through the years and liked the powerbelts till i found a less expensive option...


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## Doyle

I don't know about him, but I've never seen a Powerbelt shoot as good as a good quality sabot.


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## WTM45

CVA has a checkered past and a not so stellar reputation.

And Doyle is 100% correct about Powerbelts!


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## DonArkie

Randy is trying to make a name for himself. Someone has to be on his chopping block for him to look good. I take about what he says as much as the devil serves his souls ice water


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## RipperIII

Doyle said:


> I don't know about him, but I've never seen a Powerbelt shoot as good as a good quality sabot.



at 100 yds how much of a difference are you talking about? 
1/2", 1" tighter groups?

I've never tried a sabot,...my power belts grouped about 2"at 100yds...and some of that was my fault.
 Granted, i only shot 18 bullets,...4 of which were used to change my zero,...I was also trying out pyro-dex and 777 pellets with 3 different bullets.
 Are sabots really that much more accurate?


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## FrontierGander

That shot on the far left is #3. This rifle always throws #3 shot.  CVA Mountain Stalker.50cal @ 100 yards, open sights. 348gr powerbelt.






Now heres some real fun!













Open sight CVA Accura,


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## DonArkie

my wife Sally shoots a Optima Pro by CVA . With 90gr. American Pioneer 2-F Powder and  Power Belt 223 Aero Tip it dang near throw them in the same hole.

Randy problem is he has to make a name for him. He has it in for CVA all because when the Buckhorn/Stagehorn came out and shortly a recall on the gun for a bad breech plug. I remember this cause I was shooting a Buckhorn at the time. Randy was calling this product a "Pipe Bomb & CVA is a Murderers" and really hipping it up. CVA done there part by mailing out notices and asking to throw away the barrel\receivers & and new designed barrel/receiver will come at no charge quickly. They expressed how sorry they are for the problem.  It was good service on CVA's part, I would say. I continued to shoot that muzzleloader for another 12 years with out zero problems or complaints with 95 gr.s 2-F Geox with 223gr. Power Belt Bullet. I gave that muzzleloader away to a guy who couldnt afford a ML and wanted to get into hunting whitetails with a ML. He is continuing to harvest whitetails with that same MLwith the same set-up I've been using for years without zero problems.
Randy Wakeman is a idiot, plan & simple. I take his writing for what it is worth about as much as toliet paper. The man is continuing to bash CVA & any company that accompanies themselves with CVA.
CVA & Power Belt Bullets are 2 fine products, and the 2 combine together even make for a wicked deadly combo on any big game. Like I said Randy Wakeman is a idiot


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## WTM45

You are entitled to your opinion, and I don't sing the fella's praises often, but the CVA story has MUCH MORE than that.


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## RipperIII

WTM45 said:


> Come on Don, please clean that post up.  Kids read here, and the rules state a "G" rating.
> You are entitled to your opinion, and I don't sing the fella's praises often, but the CVA story has MUCH MORE than that.




Do Tell


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## RipperIII

nice shootin Frontier Gander!


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## DonArkie

WTM45 said:


> Come on Don, please clean that post up.  Kids read here, and the rules state a "G" rating.
> You are entitled to your opinion, and I don't sing the fella's praises often, but the CVA story has MUCH MORE than that.



sorry for the wording. I made the corrections.

several years ago Randy & I got into a debate about CVA and I'm stating what he posted in a thread.  And why he feels the way he does about CVA. Yes there is a few more things to the topic, but I briefly explained why he has it in for CVA and that simply most manufactures like CVA, Firestone,Toyota, GM & Ford have problems with there product line. Randy is on a mission for Randy, theres a differnce between updating the public & kicking a dead horse for year upon years. My CVA was one of many of the recall. And they made the wrong right. If Randy was fair & balance about the topic and not bias then I wouldnt feel the way I do about Randy. 
Again please except my apology for the way I worded the sentence in post 8.


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## WTM45

Thanks Don!

I do agree there were problems with previous CVA products and service.  Lots of lawsuits.
http://cvaguncases.com/Case___Information_Page.html

But who really knows just how those failures were negatively influenced by operator error?
But, the early stuff needed improvement.
I think, for the most part, the feedback I read about the current CVA and their products is quite good.

And yes, you are quite correct...the one fella standing on the box shouting the loudest against CVA is most often to be taken with a grain of salt as he is not truly objective.


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## WTM45

RipperIII said:


> I've never tried a sabot,...
> 
> 
> Are sabots really that much more accurate?



You would have to try them to see what your rifle likes.
I'd bet they would suprise you!

Recommendation:  Hornady XTP pistol bullets and MMP sabots.  Very accurate in most rifles, and a good value for the money!


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## DonArkie

WTM45 said:


> Thanks Don!
> 
> I do agree there were problems with previous CVA products and service.  Lots of lawsuits.
> http://cvaguncases.com/Case___Information_Page.html
> 
> But who really knows just how those failures were negatively influenced by operator error?
> But, the early stuff needed improvement.
> I think, for the most part, the feedback I read about the current CVA and their products is quite good.
> 
> And yes, you are quite correct...the one fella standing on the box shouting the loudest against CVA is most often to be taken with a grain of salt as he is not truly objective.



I totally agree "But who really knows just how those failures were negatively influenced by operator error?" there alway those that will push it beyond the limit with the manufacture suggest.


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## Doyle

You guys that are getting good groups out of Powerbelts are having much better luck than me.  I'd love to have a bullet that was "easier" to work with than a sabot, but my groups start spreading to about 2 1/2" with Powerbelts and are only about 1" with Hornady sabots.


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## FrontierGander

actually if you read those cases you will find darn near all of them were recall guns, some of the newer rifles were found to have been loaded with smokeless powder too. Theres just so much to read * all the lawyer stuff* that it gets boring and is very hard * on me* to sit here and read.   Savage has had rifles blow up, including their savage muzzleloader. And remington, well now, them suckers have a rap sheet as long as my 2 arms for blowing up.

Doyle, check these out www.thorbullets.com


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## Bowyer29

In my experience, Powerbelts shoot very well in my ml, but the their effectiveness on deer has never lived up to what I thought it should be! Terrible penetration and deer that do not bleed much at all is the norm in my experience.


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## tcward

doyle said:


> i don't know about him, but i've never seen a powerbelt shoot as good as a good quality sabot.



exactly!


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## Rick K.

I am not exactly sure what this guy is all about or even what his problem is but, I will say I have been shooting a CVA for quite some time with no complaints what so ever.

This is 2 groups of 3 shots each at 100 yards out of my CVA Wolf. You see anything wrong with those shots.





I can only tell you about my own experiences with CVA like I said above. Look at all these new improvements this year that are coming out and you tell me who is working hard at offering a quality made muzzleloader.


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## Newtire

RipperIII said:


> dude seems awfully biased against CVA/powerbelt?


He is also totally biased against Alliant Black MZ.  I had just done a bunch of chronograph work using various & sundry muzzleloading rifles and he's trying to tell me how there is such a huge variation in velocities using the same powder I had just done all the work with.  He seems to try to get people to believe he's done all these things but I'd put money on what I say.  I've actually done a few things he says he's done.


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## UpstateFishing

He's kind of washed up at this point, but he is well known in the industry for going after companies that don't offer him product or want his writing services. He's gone after many companies. The latest is Browning/Winchester.


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## frankwright

He is a legend in his own mind!


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## 35 Whelen

Doyle said:


> You guys that are getting good groups out of Powerbelts are having much better luck than me.  I'd love to have a bullet that was "easier" to work with than a sabot, but my groups start spreading to about 2 1/2" with Powerbelts and are only about 1" with Hornady sabots.



Give these a try, they work well for me, very easy to load and accurate:

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/browse/50-cal-350gr-fpb#!/


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## Wooly Bugger

Patched round ball kills 'em dead, never used anything else.


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## gemihur

The old fashioned way is usually the best.


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## Ihunt

The original post it a almost 8 years old


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## ishootlittlebucks

I don't put much stock in his opinions. On another subject he was very opinionated on somethig he obviosly knew very little about.


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