# Need mechanicing help -- Ford Truck transmission



## Twenty five ought six (Jan 7, 2009)

I need to replace the torque converter on my Ford F-150.

I've read up on it, and it doesn't seem to hard to do, especially for the money shops want to do it.

I've replaced manual transmissions, and do other service type repairs on truck, so I know my way around.

Here's my nutshell version, 

Drain tranny and TC.

Remove driveshaft

Unbolt TC from flex plate through access hole -- 4 bolts.

Unbolt tranny from motor, slide back,  may have to remover support member.

Install new TC.  Here's the part I'm not sure about.  You slide in on the shaft, and just turn it until it seats?  There's no mechanical connection between the TC and the transmission.?

Then basically reverse the process?

Fill with fluid.  I'm going to change out the tran. filter while I'm at it because pan has to come off to drain.

I've probably got 70-100K on U-joints (replacements).  Would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace them while I've got the driveshaft off?

Anything else I should look for?


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jan 7, 2009)

Couple of questions and comments....

What year truck???
What makes you think you need to replace the TC???

There IS a mechanical connection between the TC and trans...
The TC has "ears" that have to engage the front pump IN the
trans...If not aligned properly the trans pump will not work...Thus
truck will not move and likely burn up the trans....

Also, it is possible to replace the TC without removing the trans, it
is LOTS easier if you do remove it....It is much easier to align the
"ears" in the trans first, then hang the trans on the bellhousing
dowel pins, put in a few BH bolts, bolt TC to flexplate and then
finish remainder of bolts, lines, wires (if any) etc.....

Its a pretty good job, and being I am not familiar with your
mechanical skill, I might suggest you find someone close by that
does have experience with this job....

Just my opinion...


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## Slug-Gunner (Jan 7, 2009)

I will try to cover each step separately. I will post links later using EDIT, after I finish and research the link, if needed. You don't mention what year model vehicle, or type of a/t it has.  Why do you need to change T/C?

Also, not knowing your 'skill level' this is not a job for JUST ONE PERSON. There are times when you will need the help of a second person to operate jack, help hold something, and/or hand tools to you. It helps if they are 'mechanically inclined' or experienced in this task. 

#1 - DISCONNECT THE NEG (-) BATTERY TERMINAL!
         (You may have wrenches around 'HOT' voltage areas like the starter terminals, etc.)




Twenty five ought six said:


> I need to replace the torque converter on my Ford F-150.
> 
> Here's my nutshell version,
> 
> _Drain tranny and TC._



The easiest and cleanest way to drain the A/T is to use an extraction pump and a long thin hose put in thru the A/T dip stick tube until it is seated in the bottom of pan (they often like to hang-up on the lip of the filter when you are inserting the hose, so wiggle it around until it drops an inch or so). You can pump this into old milk cartons or a/frz jugs. This gets the A/T fluid level below the sealing lip of the pan (only 1-2 pints remain).... this allows you to remove the pan w/o A/T fluid going everywhere. 
Most torque convertors DO NOT HAVE DRAIN PLUGS on them. If it has one, great , you can drain it when you remove the t/c bolts from the flex-plate. 




> _Remove driveshaft_



This is the easiest part, but be sure you 'mark' both the drive shaft and differential yoke with a punch before you start so you can align them back in the same orientation they were when you removed them -  can affect d/sft balance. When you remove the u-clamps from the rear u-joint, be sure to wrap the bearing caps with tape (around the diameter of the shaft) to keep them in place and prevent the caps from falling off. 

The front is a little more difficult since you can't mark the tailshaft of the a/t until you remove the d/s. Mark the front slip-yoke first and orient it to 6 'o clock, then remove the d/s without turning it and then mark the tailshaft on the end. A center punch works fine for marking them.

You may be able to get by without pulling the d/s from the a/t tailshaft housing if you are only sliding the a/t back a few inches (depends on if you want to change u-joints).
If you want to try this, wrap the end of the d/s in a rag and place it in a can/pan to protect it. (old coffee cans work great)




> _Unbolt TC from flex plate through access hole -- 4 bolts._



You will need a flywheel wrench/turner or large screwdriver to rotate the flex-plate as you remove them. Again, see if there is a reference mark on the flexplate before you start (sometimes a small circle or X) that might line up with a corresponding mark on the t/c (these are balance reference marks). Once you have all the bolts removed, use a pry bar and slide the t/c back against the a/t (this frees the front pilot bushing from the crankshaft and prevents binding as you disconnect the a/t from the engine). 




> _Unbolt tranny from motor, slide back,  may have to remover support member. _



You will probably have to disconnect the shift linkage from the side of the a/t first (note order of clips, etc.) and also any electrical connectors, a/t cooler lines, and speedo cable if so equipped. Be careful to disengage any 'retaining clips' before trying to disconnect electrical connectors. 

Keep in mind that you may have to (most likely) put a jack, with a board on it to protect the oil pan, under the engine and lower the rear of the engine as you get ready to disconnect the a/t bell housing from the engine. Put this in place first, and use it to lower/angle the a/t as needed to access some of the bell housing-engine block bolts. Some bolts may be easier to access from the top, depending on how much clearance you have between engine and firewall and other components. Always save the bolts at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions for last.... until you have everything else ready. You may need long extensions, flex-coupling, and a lot of patience to get to some of the bell housing bolts, especially at the upper part. Note if any are of different lengths or size as you remove them since they need to go back where they came from. Sometimes cable clamps, etc are under these bolts, so note them as you remove the bolts. At this point, you'll need a second jack (preferably a transmission jack) to put under the a/t to support it. Now you're ready to remove the a/t cross member and final b/hsg bolts to drop the a/t and slide it back.

NOTE:  
Often, it's easier to remove the crossmember FIRST, that way you can lower the a/t & engine assy to access the upper b/h bolts easier.

_One thing I forgot to mention above.... you will most likely have to remove the dip-stick tube BEFORE YOU START TO LOWER THE ENGINE/TRANS ASSY, and then can slide the a/t to the rear. Do this as you remove the a/t bell housing bolts since one of them will likely retain the a/t d/stk tube. When you replace it, be sure to put a new o-ring on the bottom of it where it goes into the a/t.... or it will leak!_

Not sure, on your model vehicle, but you may need to drop the starter, unless its only bolted to the engine block area and not the bell housing in any way.

NOTE:
Keep in mind, AS YOU LOWER THE ENGINE, IT MAY PUT STRAIN ON RADIATOR HOSES, OR OTHER ACCESS., TO INCLUDE THE EXHAUST SYSTEM AS YOU LOWER IT.... DEPENDS ON HOW FAR YOU HAVE TO DROP IT TO GET THE BELL HOUSING TO CLEAR THE FIREWALL. THIS MEANS THAT ADDITONAL PARTS MAY HAVE TO BE LOOSENED,DISCONNECTED OR REMOVED FOR THIS PURPOSE.  
(Disconnecting all this "extra stuff" is what drives the cost of a mechanics labor way up there.)




> Remove torque converter.



Keep it level/vertical as you remove it since they are filled with A/T fluid at least half-full (keep a drain pan under it to set it in once removed). Place it on its nose in the pan to avoid any spillage.




> _Install new TC.  Here's the part I'm not sure about. _ You slide in on the shaft, and just turn it until it seats?  There's no mechanical connection between the TC and the transmission.?



NOT QUITE THAT SIMPLE!  There are TWO sets of 'drive dogs' on the t/c shaft that MUST BE PROPERLY ALIGNED with the corresponding 'drive dogs' inside the a/t. One actually transfers the torque to the a/t, and the other drives the pump in the a/t. If you look inside the front of the a/t, you will see them.... do this before you start, so you can get them in 'rough alignment' before you start. When you put the t/c in place, support the nose with one hand and rotate it back-and-forth until you feel the t/c drop into place - it should be setting almost 'flush' against the a/t when this happens.

One other suggestion. Partially prefill the t/c before you install it - about 1 quart. Try to stand it up slightly as you do this so it isn't filled over 1/2 full (any fuller and it will leak out as you install it). (this helps 'prime' the t/c and makes sure it can drive the a/t pump when the engine starts) Keep the t/c against the a/t until ready to attach it to the flex-plate (much later). Always try to keep the a/t slightly angled to the rear so the t/c doesn't fall out. 




> Then basically reverse the process?



AGAIN, NOT THAT SIMPLE! (Depends on 'how much' stuff you had to remove/disconnect.)
1.  Bolt a/t bell housing to engine block first, starting with 3 and 9 o'clock bolts.... then replace all other bell housing bolts (along with any clamps, etc. removed).
2.  Raise a/t & engine unit and replace a/t cross-member.
3.  Slide t/c forward to mate with flex-plate (may take a little juggling to get pilot end into end of crankshaft. Rotate t/c until any 'reference marks' (if any) are aligned. Attach t/c to flex-plate, but only lightly tighten bolts initially. Once all are installed, then rotate and torque to specs. 
4.  Replace all external a/t components disconnected prior to removal of a/t. 
5.  Replace driveshaft (see comments below)





> I've probably got 70-100K on U-joints (replacements).  Would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace them while I've got the driveshaft off?



Missed the part that these were 'replacements' the first time.
This depends on how many miles on vehicle and type of conditions operated in.... also whether they have Zerk fittings and were greased on a periodic basis. A quick inspection of the rear u-joints can determine this.

Remove the rear u-joint bearing caps (one at a time) exposed when you removed the u-straps. Being careful not to lose any of the needle bearings in the cap when you remove it. Wipe all the grease away from the post the bearing cap was sitting on and inspect it carefully. If it is clean, shiny, and smooth - you may be able to get  by with just repacking all of the u-joints. If this post surface where the needle bearings ride is dull or galled IN ANY WAY, then REPLACE ALL OF THE UNIVERSAL JOINTS (since they are ALL most likely in the same condition, or getting there). If you haven't worked with removing and replacing u-joints previously, this might not be the best time to learn how to do it. Take the complete drive shaft to a machine shop or mechanic and have them replace them all. They usually have a press and the experience/knowledge to do it quickly and properly. 
MAKE SURE THE NEW U-JOINTS ARE EQUIPPED WITH GREASE FITTINGS!

HINT:
Although most shops don't like it, you can purchase the u-joints yourself (quality only) and save some money this way. That way, you're only paying for the labor to actually remove/install the u-joints, and you're fairly sure of the quality used. If any of the d/s u-joints are 'constant velocity' type (two u-joints back-to-back), they are more difficult to work with.... make sure the shop you use has 'experience' with them (usually a shop specializing in driveshafts). NOT RECOMMENDED TO TRY YOURSELF!

When you replace the driveshaft, make sure you use the alignment marks you put on the d/s before you removed it.... this helps prevent any major balance problems.




> Fill with fluid.  I'm going to change out the tran. filter while I'm at it because pan has to come off to drain.




_Now is the best time to change the a/t filter and clean the a/t pan if so desired. Use a quality neoprene rubber pan gasket, not a cork gasket which can cause problems later. Replace all a/t pan bolts only finger tight initially. Tighten bolts progressively and only hand tighten (I prefer a nut driver to using a socket/wrench so they don't get OVER-TIGHTENED.)_
Doing it earlier might have resulted in dirty a/t fluid from the t/c getting into the pan as you tilted the a/t to remove it backwards.... also you had the a/t supported until it was reinstalled.

Be careful not to put TOO MUCH a/t fluid into the a/t initially. Put it in until it just touches the bottom of the dipstick at first. Run the engine and shift the a/t thru the gears, then stop engine and add fluid until it touches d/stick again. Run engine and check fluid level with a/t in NEUTRAL.... add fluid until it just touches the 'add' mark.
Drive vehicle until a/t is hot/warm and check fluid with engine running and add fluid as needed, but don't overfill.




> Anything else I should look for?



Not sure right now. I will have to review this after I post it and edit/add/correct as necessary.

I'm sure HGM can check my post and add any needed info I might have missed/errored on. 


BTW:
Do I get 1 hrs 'labor' for typing this for you? 

Slug-Gunner


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## HGM (Jan 7, 2009)

1hr Slug? your're pretty reasonable........


Looks about right, *BIG* job for a front yard, first timer.....

The only thing I would add, before removing the converter, I would recomend observing the depth that it is recessed into the bellhousing. This way, you will have a visual reference (or you could mark it) to let you know when the new converter is fully seated. You'l need to line up the stator support, turbine shaft and converter housing (3 pieces), and not dammage the seal while installing it too... Set it on the stator support, support the converter (engine side) with one hand on the pilot (center nub on the converter) while spinning the converter by the bolts and moving it inward, if that makes sense..  Basicly, spinning and jiggling the converter while installing it will ease the alignement of all 3 components...

Good luck, guess your finally getting around to it huh?


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks, I've looked all over the internet and my manuals, and that the most complete instructions I've found.

I think it is the TC because of the way that it shudders, and the transmission seems to work o.k. once it is in a gear.  Based on internet comments from several sources, this shuddering is pretty typical of this TC.  Even at idle you can feel the shuddering.

The truck is a 94 F-150, and the tranny is an E4OD,  It's a beast in size.  As I said, I've replaced several manual trans. but was able to man handle them (we don't need no stinking transmission jacks), but that was a while ago.  I looked it up, and this thing weighs 225 lbs.  

I really appreciate the little tips that were thrown in.


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## Slug-Gunner (Jan 8, 2009)

*Does his a/t use a 'lock-up' o-drive t/c?*



HGM said:


> 1hr Slug? your're pretty reasonable........
> 
> 
> Looks about right, *BIG* job for a front yard, first timer.....
> ...



HGM,

Based on your description.... does his a/t utilize a 'lock-up' type torque convertor?  If so, couldn't his 'shudder' problem be related to the torque convertor 'lock-up' switch/relay in the a/t not releasing properly as programmed?

Your description leads me to believe it is. _I would suggest he replace the front a/t input/pump seal while in there and has everything taken apart. If the old one leaks later, he gets to do it all over again. _That's the way I was taught to think.   

Your the Ford expert in this area, while my specialty was with GM's and foreign imports. I didn't recertify my CMAT in '93 and retired shortly thereafter due to 'limited mobility' and arthritis. I'm still 'learning' about some of the newer technology used lately. I was an aviation avionics maintenance tech/developer/instructor for 25 years so electronics and computers were quite easy for me to learn and adapt to as they were integrated into automotive technology applications.

Slug-Gunner


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## Slug-Gunner (Jan 8, 2009)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Thanks, I've looked all over the internet and my manuals, and that the most complete instructions I've found.
> 
> _I think it is the TC because of the way that it shudders, and the transmission seems to work o.k. once it is in a gear.  Based on internet comments from several sources, this shuddering is pretty typical of this TC.  Even at idle you can feel the shuddering._
> 
> ...



I'm not familiar with the E4OD a/t, but does it utilize a 'lock-up' torque convertor? Three things come to mind as to what could possibly be MORE SIMPLE fixes than replacing the t/c without checking them out first.

#1:  Before you start on anything else or buy any parts, check the t/c to flex-plate bolts for tightness - these should all be pretty tight (don't know what your torque specs are). These being loose can cause a vibration/shudder in the t/c or flex-plate area.... if they were loose, they can lead to condition #2.

#2:  Another possible cause for "shudder/vibration" is a cracked flex-plate, mainly near the mounting bolts/fittings. You may want to go ahead and remove the bolts and slide the t/c to the rear for a better view. Spray the flex-plate with brake cleaner and wipe it down until it's clean. Using a STRONG LIGHT, inspect the flex-plate for cracks.... sometimes spraying it with wd-40 will make any cracks more apparent under the light since it will create a break in the surface film where any cracks are present. If it's cracked, you'll still need to drop the a/t to change the flex-plate though.

#3:  Since you say the "shudder" is present at idle, this is a 'long-shot'. Does the engine ever stall when you come to a stop (similar to stopping a manual trans without pushing in the clutch)? Does the engine or speed seem to "toggle" whenever going up a grade? If so, you may have a problem with the t/c 'lock-up' relay/switch (inside the a/t usually).  HGM is more familiar with this set-up than I am on Fords. 


When I was 25 yrs old I could carry around a 'small block' engine assy with my arms, or one-hand a head assy, or 'man-handle' a transmission by myself.... now I have problems carrying my own weight around.  
Things 'change' as we get older.      

You should be able to rent or borrow a transmission jack and a 'flywheel turner wrench' from a rental store or an automotive parts store. Autozone, Advance Auto, & O'Reilly's have a tool loaner program where you leave a credit card 'hold' for the tool you are borrowing (to cover it's replacement cost if you don't return it). When you return the tool, they issue a 'credit' to your card - or return any cash deposit. A lot cheaper (often 'free') than buying a 'special tool' you'll only use once. If you rent a tranny jack, get a hydraulic model and not the screw type scissors jack type (they suck and aren't very stable). Check it to make sure it has hold-down chains/straps (use your own rubber/bungy cord too) to secure the a/t to the jack, and check out the 'range of adjustments' for the 'tilt' on the jack before you remove it from the store. When your about to need/use it is NOT THE TIME TO FIND OUT SOMEONE BROKE IT (or didn't return all the parts). The transmission jack will allow you to tilt/and lower the a/t as needed and makes replacement a lot easier (plus you can leave it on the jack while doing other things).  We can cover its use later if needed.

Post back on what you find with the t/c-to-flex plate bolts.

BTW:
Hopefully, this is a 2WD and not 4WD.... or things are a lot more complicated?   

Slug-Gunner


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## beretta (Jan 8, 2009)

1st thing, have you ever serviced your trans?


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## Slug-Gunner (Jan 8, 2009)

*Excellent Question!*



beretta said:


> 1st thing, have you ever serviced your trans?



Excellent question.... also how many miles on a/t itself?

Slug-Gunner


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## HGM (Jan 8, 2009)

Yea, he was going to swap it out a year or so ago and other things came up. I was skeptical at the time too.. I doubt its the converter, but not looking at it and him being so convinced it is, there may be more info to it that I know or can rememeber ...

It is definitly a lock up style converter. Sometimes a they can give a shudder when locking up (40mph or so), but not at idle. Unless of course its falsely activatiing. But there again, how likely is it that a solonoid only partially shorts and doesnt set a code while never causing a stall?? I know money could be tight, but things like this are not guesswork. He really needs the opinion of someone who can check it out properly. Personally, there is no way I would pull the trans w/o proper diag..

And yes, your right on. Replacing the seal, checking the flexplate for cracks, loose nuts and etc should absoloutly be done..



Slug-Gunner said:


> HGM,
> 
> Based on your description.... does his a/t utilize a 'lock-up' type torque convertor?  If so, couldn't his 'shudder' problem be related to the torque convertor 'lock-up' switch/relay in the a/t not releasing properly as programmed?
> 
> ...


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## GoldDot40 (Jan 8, 2009)

Once you get it changed....go to the Ford dealership and buy a bottle of the 'anti-shudder' additive and just pour it down the dipstick tube. Do this again EVERY time the transmission is serviced in the future. You might even add a bottle now to see if the shudder gets better. I'm thinking since you said it does it also while idling, something inside the converter is probably amiss.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 10, 2009)

> #1: Before you start on anything else or buy any parts, check the t/c to flex-plate bolts for tightness - these should all be pretty tight (don't know what your torque specs are). These being loose can cause a vibration/shudder in the t/c or flex-plate area.... if they were loose, they can lead to condition #2.  Already done that.
> 
> #2: Another possible cause for "shudder/vibration" is a cracked flex-plate, mainly near the mounting bolts/fittings. You may want to go ahead and remove the bolts and slide the t/c to the rear for a better view. Spray the flex-plate with brake cleaner and wipe it down until it's clean. Using a STRONG LIGHT, inspect the flex-plate for cracks.... sometimes spraying it with wd-40 will make any cracks more apparent under the light since it will create a break in the surface film where any cracks are present. If it's cracked, you'll still need to drop the a/t to change the flex-plate though.I would replace the TC anyway if I do that, it's got a lot of miles on it.
> 
> #3: Since you say the "shudder" is present at idle, this is a 'long-shot'. Does the engine ever stall when you come to a stop (similar to stopping a manual trans without pushing in the clutch)? Does the engine or speed seem to "toggle" whenever going up a grade? If so, you may have a problem with the t/c 'lock-up' relay/switch (inside the a/t usually). HGM is more familiar with this set-up than I am on Fords.Doesn't stall, truck runs and shifts fine.



Thanks for all the help.  I service the trans. about every two years.  I'm upgrading the T/C from the OEM to a little heavier duty.

This is a used transmission I had installed in the truck.  I considered putting a new T/C when it was installed as a preventive measure, and let the mechanic talk me out of it.


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## Holton (Jan 10, 2009)

As has been said changing the fluid can cure most shudder in em Fords. The way I like to describe the shudder is as if crossing warning strips in pavement at stop signs in country. 

Lube Guard additive is a good product also.

This is not Ford. Just an example.


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## GoldDot40 (Jan 10, 2009)

Holton said:


> As has been said changing the fluid can cure most shudder in em Fords. The way I like to describe the shudder is as if crossing warning strips in pavement at stop signs in country.
> 
> Lube Guard additive is a good product also.
> 
> This is not Ford. Just an example.


We've used Lube Guard before also. Good product.


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## dtrusty (Jan 11, 2009)

most transmission shops carry a product called shudder stop. pour it in and go. works great.made a lot of customers happy not having to replace the tc.


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## Thajonesboyz (Jan 15, 2009)

Most of the fords that come into my shop with a shudder, gets a service w/ converter drain- tube of DR. Tranny's shudder fix. and out the door they go. but to shudder at idle??? checking the hyd. diagram . I just cant see that happening without other complaints.


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## copenhagen cowboy (Feb 6, 2009)

e4od is a crap transmission they were really common for there shuttering. last ford I had with the e4od I converted it to a c6


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