# Hebrews 12:17



## jmharris23 (Feb 27, 2012)

Just curious what your thoughts are on this verse?


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## JB0704 (Feb 27, 2012)

> 14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.



When I was a kid, I heard a sermon on this scripture.  The idea was that there is a time when God says "time's up, no more chances."  Is that what you read it to be saying?


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## gtparts (Feb 27, 2012)

I often have a hard time trying to get understanding from a single verse. Here are verses 14-17 from the NLT.

 14 Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord. 15 Look after each other so that none of you fails to receive the grace of God. Watch out that no poisonous root of bitterness grows up to trouble you, corrupting many. 16 Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. 17 You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

It is one thing to inherit a blessing by birthrite, unmerited and based on legality. It is quite another to choose to give up that special favor so as to acquire earthly things. That which the Father offers freely can be gratefully accepted or foolishly rejected. Either choice has its consequences.

(Note that Esau is characterized as immoral and godless. God would have us hold our parents in high regard, just for the position they have. How much more should we regard our heavenly Father, who sent His only begotten Son for our redemption?)

God wants us to choose wisely.


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## 1gr8bldr (Feb 27, 2012)

Could it be alluding to the taking of the mark in the end times? At that time, you will have to make a decision to eat or almost starve because you will not be able to buy food without the mark.


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## Jeffriesw (Feb 29, 2012)

From Calvins Commentary on Hebrews 17. Although I would commend to you his writings on verses 11-17, it ties it all in fairly neatly.

http://calvin.biblecommenter.com/hebrews/12.htm

17. When he would have inherited the blessing, etc. He at first regarded as a sport the act by which he had sold his birthright, as though it was a child's play; but at length, when too late, he found what a loss he had incurred, when the blessing transferred by his father to Jacob was refused to him. Thus they who are led away by the allurements of this world alienate themselves from God, and sell their own salvation that they may feed on the morsels of this world, without thinking that they lose anything, nay, they flatter and applaud themselves, as though they were extremely happy. When too late their eyes are opened, so that being warned by the sight of their own wickedness, they become sensible of the loss of which they made no account.

While Esau was hungry, he cared for nothing but how he might have his stomach well filled; when full he laughed at his brother, and judged him a fool for having voluntarily deprived himself of a meal. Nay, such is also the stupidity of the ungodly, as long as they burn with depraved lusts or intemperately plunge themselves into sinful pleasures; after a time they understand how fatal to them are all the things which they so eagerly desired. The word "rejected" means that he was repulsed, or denied his request.

For he found no place of repentance, etc.; that is, he profited nothing, he gained nothing by his late repentance, though he sought with tears the blessing which by his own fault he had lost. [259]

Now as he denounces the same danger on all the despisers of God's grace, it may be asked, whether no hope of pardon remains, when God's grace has been treated with contempt and his kingdom less esteemed than the world? To this I answer, that pardon is not expressly denied to such, but that they are warned to take heed, lest the same thing should happen to them also. And doubtless we may see daily many examples of God's severity, which prove that he takes vengeance on the mockings and scoffs of profane men: for when they promise themselves tomorrow, he often suddenly takes them away by death in a manner new and unexpected; when they deem fabulous what they hear of God's judgment, he so pursues them that they are forced to acknowledge him as their judge; when they have consciences wholly dead, they afterwards feel dreadful agonies as a punishment for their stupidity. But though this happens not to all, yet as there is this danger, the Apostle justly warns all to beware.

Another question also arises, Whether the sinner, endued with repentance, gains nothing by it? For the Apostle seems to imply this when he tells us that Esau's repentance availed him nothing. My reply is, that repentance here is not to be taken for sincere conversion to God; but it was only that terror with which the Lord smites the ungodly, after they have long indulged themselves in their iniquity. Nor is it a wonder that this terror should be said to be useless and unavailing, for they do not in the meantime repent nor hate their own vices, but are only tormented by a sense of their own punishment. The same thing is to be said of tears; whenever a sinner sighs on account of his sins, the Lord is ready to pardon him, nor is God's mercy ever sought in vain, for to him who knocks it shall be opened, (Matthew 7:8 but as the tears of Esau were those of a man past hope, they were not shed on account of having offended God; so the ungodly, however they may deplore their lot, complain and howl, do not yet knock at God's door for mercy, for this cannot be done but by faith. And the more grievously conscience torments them, the more they war against God and rage against him. They might indeed desire that an access should be given them to God; but as they expect nothing but his wrath, they shun his presence. Thus we often see that those who often say, as in a jest, that repentance is sufficiently in time when they are drawing towards their end, do then cry bitterly, amidst dreadful agonies, that the season of obtaining repentance is past; for that they are doomed to destruction because they did not seek God until it was too late. Sometimes, indeed, they break out into such words as these, "Oh! if -- oh! if;" but presently despair cuts short their prayers and chokes their voice, so that they proceed no farther.


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## Jeffriesw (Feb 29, 2012)

I would also highly recommend this sermon to you on Hebrews 12:12-17 from a Pastor there in Macon Georgia on Sermon Audio, I believe He does a very good job with it.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=327079952


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## gordon 2 (Feb 29, 2012)

At first instinct Esau is like a type of Adam. For a single meal their birth right was given the heave-ho--don't let the door hit you....

Some sins will spin you out of relationship to the extent that expressions of repentance, tears, have no ear to rest apon... What is needed is restoration. This is possible in our Christ. But other than this,  an eating bugs diet, rolling in mud and letting it dry on the back to make you uglier, 40 yrs in deserts knowing there is milk and honey just next door, washing in ashes before the saturday night dance, wearing potato sack cloths amid plenty, sacraficing animals for 3000 yrs and having the heart of David might get you there. 

Some sins are like those prize fighters who just grind you down fast ( usually in the third round when they have figured you out)  and for the count and retirement... For example if your gona commit adultry do it when your young and hope you live a long life.  Prize fighter, don't plan on your soon to be-- come-back. No need to beg,....just wait for the call-- the alter kind.

Perhaps.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 29, 2012)

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; 16 that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.


Genesis 25:33 And Jacob said, “First swear to me”; so he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob.


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## StriperAddict (Mar 1, 2012)

The story brings home to me that one's birthright in Christ is the most crucial part of their identity.


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## RNC (Mar 1, 2012)

The Lord strives with us to give us eternal life freely ...

We accept this gift thru faith in Christ Jesus 

The Holy Spirit will not always strive with us and one day if we tarry our time will be gone ...

Today is the day of salvation , seek Him while he may be found !


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## gordon 2 (Mar 1, 2012)

RNC said:


> The Lord strives with us to give us eternal life freely ...
> 
> We accept this gift thru faith in Christ Jesus
> 
> ...



Your avatar chief Dan George reminds me of his lines in the Little Big Horn. "Today is a good day to die." But try he might, it rained in his face and he had to carry on with his life. Somehow that is fitting to this tread.


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## hummerpoo (Mar 1, 2012)

jmharris23 said:


> Just curious what your thoughts are on this verse?



I can't seem to consider this verse without Malachi 1 and Romans 9.

But this being given as an example of the admonition in vs. 15, when considered with Mal. and Rm. results in a very interesting question related to our responsibility within the Body of Christ.  This responsibility seems to show up in Heb. 4-1 and perhaps in Heb. 2-1 as well.  Some reading, I think, will uncover the same elsewhere in Hebrews.  Just haven't had time yet.


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## gtparts (Mar 15, 2012)

I revisited this post because it occured to me that some might not fully grasp the extent of what Esau did here.

He did not give up half of the double portion reserved for the first-born male. He gave up his complete inheritance. When Jacob received his inheritance, he received all his father had, his brother's two portions and his own as well. This shows a complete disregard and repudiation of the family, by Esau, who was to be the head of the family. Shirking the responsibility (and blessings) that accompany that position was an act of intentional and careless rebellion against the family, contrary to desire of his father, Abraham and to the very will of God in instituting the family unit ... immoral and godless. 

I believe it represents a far more serious choice in that day than we can imagine today. All take heed, there is a lesson here about the character of men and a revelation (in part) of what is important to God. A man who "abandons" his family is worse than an infidel.


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## ryanh487 (Mar 16, 2012)

We are called to be a HOLY people, through the power of the Holy Spirit. We can in fact be sanctified and sinless in THIS life, and the generation that sees Christ's return MUST in fact develop a sanctified character through the power of the Holy Spirit in order to be saved. In fact, Christ will not return until His people have prepared their hearts and fully surrendered to Him in order to receive the promised extra helping of the Holy Spirit to make them ready.  Revelation tells us that there will come a time, BEFORE His return, that He declares "let those that are righteous, be righteous still," and "those that are filthy, be filthy still", and He will step away from His role as intermediary. Those that have not lived a life dedicated to pursuit of the Holy Spirit and received the promised outpouring in the last days will have no more intercessor in Christ and by that point so deceived that they have no idea and wouldn't accept the truth if it were shared with them.


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