# Demons and evil spirits



## HawgJawl (Jan 9, 2014)

There are many scriptures about demons and evil spirits in the Bible.  The books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke contain several examples of Jesus casting out demons and empowering His disciples to do the same.  The book of Acts details examples of the disciples casting out demons and evil spirits.

Scripture warns against being deceived by evil spirits.

Ephesians 6:11-12  Put on the full armor of God, so that you can stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Romans 8:38
1 Corinthians 10:21  You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

1 Timothy 4:1  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

What are your thoughts on demons and evil spirits in the world today, and why do you think the subject of demons and evil spirits is normally ignored in Christian teaching?


----------



## warmouth (Jan 9, 2014)

I say demons exist. I do not believe the charismatic teachings of demonic presence is real. Like the "cast 'em out" on stage or the "exorcism" revivals. I believe that to be a show, just like I believe the "name it, claim it" is a scam. Just a way for some sects to garner attention... or money.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 9, 2014)

I go along with what R.C Sproul says here:

_In the Bible, we see [demons] possessing people and oppressing people, causing bodily harm, property damage, and all kinds of things. The Christian is always faced with this question: Can I be demon-possessed? I don’t believe so. I believe that people can be demon-possessed, but I don’t think that this is possible for a Christian, because God the Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate person, and the Scriptures tell us, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2 Cor. 3:17). So, no demon can hold us hostage to the power of Satan. Demons can oppress us, they can harass us, they can tempt us, attack us and so on, but thanks be to God, He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4)._


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 9, 2014)

I don't remember ever being taught about demons or evil spirits in Sunday school nor can I remember a sermon focused on resisting the temptation of demons or evil spirits.  Any ideas on why this subject is typically ignored in most churches?


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 9, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't remember ever being taught about demons or evil spirits in Sunday school nor can I remember a sermon focused on resisting the temptation of demons or evil spirits.  Any ideas on why this subject is typically ignored in most churches?



It has been taught in most churches---most of the ones Ive attended anyway and that's all I can speak for. I remember one specific lesson where there was a testimony of a man possessed coming into a church one wednesday night. They said the man came to the door but refused to come in making all kinds of excuses but saying he needed to pray. One man even took his jacket off and gave the man because he said he wasnt dressed to come in. When he finally did come in they said the whole building turned cold and the man was cold but sweating profusely. They got him to the altar and prayed and prayed with him but he never gave in--- the conclusion was the man fell into a convulsive state , got up and screamed and ran out of the church never to be seen again.
 Everyone that participated in prayer that night said you could feel an evil presence.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 9, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I go along with what R.C Sproul says here:
> 
> _In the Bible, we see [demons] possessing people and oppressing people, causing bodily harm, property damage, and all kinds of things. The Christian is always faced with this question: Can I be demon-possessed? I don’t believe so. I believe that people can be demon-possessed, but I don’t think that this is possible for a Christian, because God the Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate person, and the Scriptures tell us, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2 Cor. 3:17). So, no demon can hold us hostage to the power of Satan. Demons can oppress us, they can harass us, they can tempt us, attack us and so on, but thanks be to God, He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4)._





HawgJawl said:


> I don't remember ever being taught about demons or evil spirits in Sunday school nor can I remember a sermon focused on resisting the temptation of demons or evil spirits.  Any ideas on why this subject is typically ignored in most churches?



The above quote from RC Sproul does a good job of answering your question.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 9, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> It has been taught in most churches---most of the ones Ive attended anyway and that's all I can speak for. I remember one specific lesson where there was a testimony of a man possessed coming into a church one wednesday night. They said the man came to the door but refused to come in making all kinds of excuses but saying he needed to pray. One man even took his jacket off and gave the man because he said he wasnt dressed to come in. When he finally did come in they said the whole building turned cold and the man was cold but sweating profusely. They got him to the altar and prayed and prayed with him but he never gave in--- the conclusion was the man fell into a convulsive state , got up and screamed and ran out of the church never to be seen again.
> Everyone that participated in prayer that night said you could feel an evil presence.



That is interesting.  I never had that type of experience in church, and as I said, I was never taught that demons and evil spirits are active in the world and must be guarded against.

In my experience, temptation is usually taught to be from within the person, as in the person's own personal desires and lusts, as opposed to from an external source intent upon deceiving the person.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jan 9, 2014)

I think we're getting demon possession and  being lead by demons mixed up. Can't it be two different things? We are told to test the spirits. Why the verses that appear to be warning Christians especially this one:

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


----------



## TreeFrog (Jan 9, 2014)

While I would love to cover this subject in much more detail, I'll use a little forum space now to try to help those who are genuinely seeking a better understanding on this issue:

First, can a Christian be possessed?  No.  See Matthew 6:24.  While this particular passage is a specific reference to money, the concept is the same.  You can't love Christ and the world.  You cannot be a bond servant of Christ and a host for demonic spirits.

Can Christians be oppressed, tempted, or assaulted by evil spirits?  Yes- HawgJawl is correct.  The majority of our temptation comes from our sinful nature. (Romas 6:12-23)  However, Peter reminds us in 1 Peter 5 that our "great enemy," the devil, prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour.  You think he's doing that all by his lonesome?  No way, in his rebellion he took 1/3 of the angels with him.  (Rev 12:1-7)
If it were not necessary for us to guard against these spirits, what was Paul talking about in Ephesians 6:10-19?  Here is an excerpt:

"Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.  Put on all of God’s armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places." (NLT)

Are evil spirits something we need to fear?  No.  Respect, yes, but fear, no.  Christ clearly demonstrated He has authority over the demonic.  When He sent His disciples out, He gave them authority over demons.  The same authority is extended to those who operate in His Spirit as He leads.

Finally, I don't know why this subject would not be covered in Sunday school.  Clearly there is plenty of information in the Bible for those seeking to learn.  If you're willing, you should approach your pastor about you teaching a series on this subject.  I grew up learning this and the church should not ignore this important aspect of God's Word.

I welcome additional inquiries and if you are in the greater Albany area and want to discuss this or other Biblical topics further, I'm available most weekends.

Love y'all!
-Pastor Treefrog


----------



## JB0704 (Jan 9, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't remember ever being taught about demons or evil spirits in Sunday school nor can I remember a sermon focused on resisting the temptation of demons or evil spirits.



I was.  Scary stuff for me as a kid.  I had one particular teacher who spent a lot of time on it.  Made for a lot of sleepless nights in my youth......I was certain the shadow on the window was either the Predator or a demon 



HawgJawl said:


> Any ideas on why this subject is typically ignored in most churches?



No clue.  Contemporary churches seem to focus on the individual and God's goodness.


----------



## little rascal (Jan 9, 2014)

*Because,,*



> I don't remember ever being taught about demons or evil spirits in Sunday school nor can I remember a sermon focused on resisting the temptation of demons or evil spirits. Any ideas on why this subject is typically ignored in most churches?



,,Churches need money and members, they tell ya what ya want to hear, they need you're attendance and tithing to sustain. If you trust God and have as much faith as a mustard seed you can move mountains! With God and faith no evil can touch you. Too many people believe in the Church and the Pastor and not enough of the Almighty! It's called legalism. I challenge you to look up gracewalk.org, you will learn what God really is all about and how Graceful he is and how simple it is to be Graced by God by just simply believing in him and not getting caught up in Legalism!


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

My take on what the bible points to is that these spirits are those spirits kicked out of heaven who have "hitched a ride" in a someones body. Now.... do I believe this..... or do I think that our bad side, bad choices, etc, exist without the help of an "evil spirt"?


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 9, 2014)

i believe evil spirits are something that can destroy our lives. If we become to concerned with anything outside of Christ. I see it as the Bible teaches us our purpose to raise our familys and be thankful to GOD. If we do these things we can receive the grace of GOD and be rewarded by Heaven and eternal life. If we become beggars,thieves,addicts,adulterer's,murders,greedy,hateful,prideful, etc. then did we not invite the evil in and turn the lion loose on ourselves?. I believe it teaches us we are sinners and will fall into these evil temptations and we shouldn't ever fear turning and fighting the lion or the evil ''devil''. The Bible gives us power over these evil spirits that can consume us. I have seen it in my life but it takes admitting we're wrong and to turning to GOD's power to fight them. Some will never be wrong or really have to fight against it and i guess its their faith or ''fate'' hard to talk to someone who's never wrong.. I read somewhere in the Bible and i'm paraphrasing ''The meek shall inherit the world'' it was saying those that shy from God already have their place. jmo


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 9, 2014)

Matthew 5:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


----------



## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> My take on what the bible points to is that these spirits are those spirits kicked out of heaven who have "hitched a ride" in a someones body. Now.... do I believe this..... or do I think that our bad side, bad choices, etc, exist without the help of an "evil spirt"?



It could be mans way of explaining a human side or part of the human mind that was not understood in earlier times.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Jan 10, 2014)

There is a large Christian group called "Christadelphians", who believe it all internal, even the devil included. They believe that no real devil exist but rather that our evil tendencies are named the devil, or something like that


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

Please allow me to clarify.  The devil tempting Eve was taught as well as the devil trying to tempt Jesus.  The devil was portrayed as the opposite of a person's conscience, like the angel on one shoulder telling you to do the right thing and the devil on the other shoulder telling you to do the wrong thing.  It was always portrayed as an easy decision if you just remembered you were a Christian and tried to live Christ-like.

What was never taught, in any church I attended, was the power of evil spirits to possess someone.

I accept the assertion that "real" Christians cannot become possessed by a demon or evil spirit, but "real" Christians are the minority.  What about everyone else?

When I hear the Great Commission preached or taught, the part about casting out demons is ignored.  Casting out demons is part of the Great Commission and Jesus spent a lot of time doing it.  

In my experience, Christians are not being told to cast out demons and are not being taught how to do it.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 10, 2014)

Hj, perhaps the world came to an end, and through Jesus Christ and His victory over death there was a new world established. Things are different in this new world...maybe satan has been chained by the Gospel and can only rule as prince of the carnal world, and has no effect over the new Jerusalem which may be the Kingdom of Christ that spiritually all Christians are part of and is Ruled by Jesus Christ which has received all authority!  Maybe the one that bruised His heel, has received the fatal blow.

Maybe these things you hunger for isn't being taught in some churches because some churches would strangle their congregation with meat, because they prefer to stay on milk their whole life.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Hj, perhaps the world came to an end, and through Jesus Christ and His victory over death there was a new world established. Things are different in this new world...maybe satan has been chained by the Gospel and can only rule as prince of the carnal world, and has no effect over the new Jerusalem which may be the Kingdom of Christ that spiritually all Christians are part of and is Ruled by Jesus Christ which has received all authority!  Maybe the one that bruised His heel, has received the fatal blow.



If all the scripture concerning demons and evil spirits were from the Old Testament that might be valid, but the New Testament makes it clear that demons and evil spirits are active in the world and will be until the last days.

The disciples were casting out evil sprits in the book of Acts after Jesus was resurrected and ascended.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 10, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> If all the scripture concerning demons and evil spirits were from the Old Testament that might be valid, but the New Testament makes it clear that demons and evil spirits are active in the world and will be until the last days.
> 
> The disciples were casting out evil sprits in the book of Acts after Jesus was resurrected and ascended.



This is true. The Acts was just the kickoff to Revelations, which is where we currently stand in the battle, IMHO.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 10, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> This is true. The Acts was just the kickoff to Revelations, which is where we currently stand in the battle, IMHO.



What in the world leads you to make the above statement?


----------



## JB0704 (Jan 10, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What in the world leads you to make the above statement?



I think it's called the preterist view of revelation.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 10, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What in the world leads you to make the above statement?



My humble opinion.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

I've heard some people present the theory that people suffering from seizures and people suffering from insanity may have been mistaken for someone possessed by a demon or evil spirit. 

The problem with this theory is that it would require Jesus to make this mistake on more than one occassion.


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 10, 2014)

i believe this devil is very real lets think about this.. Why is it so hard to do good over bad? If no one ever says their wrong or admits it but they truly are wrong then where does that evil end?'maybe when their surrounded by a world that's burning down around them. Their so scared of what their reverted mind has created and now everyone thinks this way of no wrong and no longer feel as though they done anything wrong. Is it human nature to work towards doing these sinful things that lead to destruction of man? maybe its what the Bible says. These people have already lived through a earlier version of what we're facing now. The reason its hard to understand is that most never had School or exactly taught how to write an instruction manual for us even if they did we'd poke holes in it.. The ones that took time to thank God 1/10 does and he must have been busy working and being thankful instead of learning how to write literature.When we fall into temptation and sinful ways but never admit it as a problem and turn to Jesus for forgiveness? Did we create our own evil spirit? I would think we would be possessed to some extent it'd be just how possessed are we?


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

Christians aren't being taught how to cast out demons and evil spirits.

Why do you think that is?

Do you think it's not considered part of the Great Commission?

Do you think that demon possession no longer exists?

Do you think demon possession never really existed?

Do you think that it sends the wrong message and takes away  personal responsibility by blaming actions on the devil?

Do you think that most demon possessed folks never show up at church in order to be witnessed to and are therefore under the Christain radar?

Why is it not a major issue today?


----------



## oldfella1962 (Jan 10, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> It has been taught in most churches---most of the ones Ive attended anyway and that's all I can speak for. I remember one specific lesson where there was a testimony of a man possessed coming into a church one wednesday night. They said the man came to the door but refused to come in making all kinds of excuses but saying he needed to pray. One man even took his jacket off and gave the man because he said he wasnt dressed to come in. When he finally did come in they said the whole building turned cold and the man was cold but sweating profusely. They got him to the altar and prayed and prayed with him but he never gave in--- the conclusion was the man fell into a convulsive state , got up and screamed and ran out of the church never to be seen again.
> Everyone that participated in prayer that night said you could feel an evil presence.



Did everyone check to see if their wallet was missing when he ran out?


----------



## Lowjack (Jan 10, 2014)

My Experience in the last 18 years , living in Miami Where Religions of the African persuasion is in every corner , evil spirits exist , they have different categories as well as Jobs , it is a well oiled machine set lose on this world , they have different ranks as well as form or shape or shapeless. Their main Job is to deceit the world on behalf of Satan. The demons of Santeria which is similar to Voodoo is mostly practiced down here by Cubans , Are low ranking demons , their jobs is too serve the master Babalowed(Priest) they mimick spirits of departed family , they are known in the bible as "familiar spirits"They can possess a subject AKA Medium and speak through it , usually nonsensical messages and even in other languages which the host doesn't speak , I have seen this in many occasions. Then there are the more powerful Spirits which are called dark entities , this are the ones that Mimick African gods or "Orishas"While the familiar spirits are easily cast out the Orisha will give you a battle and may return for several battles , these I have seen in person and manifested even in my house after teaching this to students , they do not want their secrets given away, they cannot stand the name of Christ or the FAther ot Holy Spirit or anything Holy , even Christian music will drive them away , returning several times until they are worned down , then are other entities who are solid and semi solid ,appear as human beings and can disappear at will or shapeshift , I also had an encountered with one of this. A man of God must be vigilant and aware of who is around you at all times , in Prayer in the spirit and always seeking God in Mind and Spirit.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

Lowjack said:


> My Experience in the last 18 years , living in Miami Where Religions of the African persuasion is in every corner , evil spirits exist , they have different categories as well as Jobs , it is a well oiled machine set lose on this world , they have different ranks as well as form or shape or shapeless. Their main Job is to deceit the world on behalf of Satan. The demons of Santeria which is similar to Voodoo is mostly practiced down here by Cubans , Are low ranking demons , their jobs is too serve the master Babalowed(Priest) they mimick spirits of departed family , they are known in the bible as "familiar spirits"They can possess a subject AKA Medium and speak through it , usually nonsensical messages and even in other languages which the host doesn't speak , I have seen this in many occasions. Then there are the more powerful Spirits which are called dark entities , this are the ones that Mimick African gods or "Orishas"While the familiar spirits are easily cast out the Orisha will give you a battle and may return for several battles , these I have seen in person and manifested even in my house after teaching this to students , they do not want their secrets given away, they cannot stand the name of Christ or the FAther ot Holy Spirit or anything Holy , even Christian music will drive them away , returning several times until they are worned down , then are other entities who are solid and semi solid ,appear as human beings and can disappear at will or shapeshift , I also had an encountered with one of this. A man of God must be vigilant and aware of who is around you at all times , in Prayer in the spirit and always seeking God in Mind and Spirit.



Thank you for your post.  It's very interesting and informative.

Do you have any thought on why this subject is not front and center in Christian teaching?


----------



## JB0704 (Jan 10, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I've heard some people present the theory that people suffering from seizures and people suffering from insanity may have been mistaken for someone possessed by a demon or evil spirit.



I've heard that too.  It wasn't that long ago that people started realizing what siezures actually were.  When a siezure ends, the person who had one goes into a very deep sleep.  So, I can see how a person would think a person was posessed and then left alone without modern medical advancements.

That being said, the stories in the Bible generally involve communication with the posessed person.....so that would rule out a person having a siezure in those circumstances.


----------



## JB0704 (Jan 10, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Do you have any thought on why this subject is not front and center in Christian teaching?



What's your theory as to why Christians avoid it?


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 10, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> What's your theory as to why Christians avoid it?



I don't know.  I offered a few possibilities but there's probably other reasons I can't think of yet.  That's why I asked.



HawgJawl said:


> Christians aren't being taught how to cast out demons and evil spirits.
> 
> Why do you think that is?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 10, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Christians aren't being taught how to cast out demons and evil spirits.
> 
> Why do you think that is? Because Christians today weren't instructed to do that.
> 
> ...



Was demon possession widespread prior to the beginning of Jesus' ministry?

Was demon possession something that Israel's people had to deal with under the 1st law?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 11, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What in the world leads you to make the above statement?



If you will allow me to go off on a brief tangent....   I think this is what he was alluding to, at least it's how I took it.

Acts has always been seen as the History Book of the NT.  However many including myself if pressed to place us chronologically where we are today would point to Revelations 3:20

“If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me. 21 The victor: I will give him the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I also won the victory and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.”


which is the very last view we have of earth prior to the First Seal being broken.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 11, 2014)

I think there are possessed people around.  I also think it's more prevalent in non Christian and primitive cultures.  Many cultures invite spirits into the body as a form of worship and I believe that evil spirits do in fact enter into them.  I've heard many noted missionaries speak of this....Too many and too credible to discount.
A couple of months ago my wife and I walked passed a man as we were entering a store.  The evil and hatred coming from him was
Palpable.  Not a word was spoken and I never saw the man before in my life.  My wife asked me if I felt something when we passed him.  Up till then I thought it was just me.  He alarmed me enough that I was glad I was carrying and I watched him until he got in his car and left.  I fully expected him to walk in and start shooting.  It was just spooky, Erie.   Anyway, yeah.  I believe it.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 11, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Was demon possession widespread prior to the beginning of Jesus' ministry?
> 
> Was demon possession something that Israel's people had to deal with under the 1st law?



Jesus healed the blind.

Was blindness widespread prior to the beginning of Jesus' ministry?

Was blindness something that Israel's people had to deal with under the 1st law?

Maybe casting out demons is similar to healing blindness in that Jesus was the first man righteous enough to do it, and He told His followers that they could do it too if they had enough belief and faith.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 11, 2014)

As for casting out demons being part of the Great Commission, try reading Mark 16:15-20.


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 11, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I think there are possessed people around.  I also think it's more prevalent in non Christian and primitive cultures.  Many cultures invite spirits into the body as a form of worship and I believe that evil spirits do in fact enter into them.  I've heard many noted missionaries speak of this....Too many and too credible to discount.
> A couple of months ago my wife and I walked passed a man as we were entering a store.  The evil and hatred coming from him was
> Palpable.  Not a word was spoken and I never saw the man before in my life.  My wife asked me if I felt something when we passed him.  Up till then I thought it was just me.  He alarmed me enough that I was glad I was carrying and I watched him until he got in his car and left.  I fully expected him to walk in and start shooting.  It was just spooky, Erie.   Anyway, yeah.  I believe it.



Thank you.

Were you ever taught about demon possession or how to cast out demons?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 11, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Were you ever taught about demon possession or how to cast out demons?



No.  As noted it's not a subject that's preached on very often.  Honestly I think this is because it's not very well understood by anyone.  That and the fact that it's not fashionable to label sin...sin these days tends to discourage it also.  The American Psychiatric Association has given every deviant behavior a diagnostic title, in effect abolishing sin and giving people an excuse for their behavior.   People are no longer just mean or rotten.  Now they suffer from things such as oppositional defiant disorder, antisocial personality disorder, etc.  I can't even imagine the politically correct backlash if one was to suggest someone was possessed.


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 11, 2014)

i do not have all the answers on demon possession but for casting the demons out the way i read the bible it says to pray noon,night, and morning.. pray for yesterday,today and tomorrow.  Now that's three prayers and not heathen prayers neither its three meaningful prayers. So for casting out demons i'd start with the noon,night and morning prayers and move on to bringing in more true believers from there not the everyday person... The problem with having only 3 believers would be that if one and only one didn't believe from the tips of his hairs to the tips of his toes that Gods power was as real as sweet tea then their prayers hold no power of God. If they have any doubt their as good as a non believer.
This might not be right but its as good of a start as any. Its saying we'll pick up our armor against these evil spirits. Our words will be as sharp as a double edged sword... now i don't have the scripts to give word for word counsel but its what i rest my head on.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> I think it's called the preterist view of revelation.



Not really, the preterist view is that all is fulfilled. I tend to believe all the prophecy is fulfilled, is current, and future. Its the last book because it is an ongoing book, it is still very valid to our situations today---lets face it, folks like Peter arent walking around healing people today by casting their shadow on them. The Acts was necessary to grow the kingdom which was still very small, and God was again giving the Jew a chance to repent before the great destruction of 70AD and the loss of the temple. It also gives us a history of the Christian church. Im not demeaning the importance of the book, but IMO Revelations is the book to look to if we want to know whats going on now, especially with the spiritual warfare.





			
				SemperFiDawg said:
			
		

> If you will allow me to go off on a brief tangent.... I think this is what he was alluding to, at least it's how I took it.
> 
> Acts has always been seen as the History Book of the NT. However many including myself if pressed to place us chronologically where we are today would point to Revelations 3:20
> 
> ...



Jesus is in the midst of the churches---standing at the door knocking that if any man hear Him they shall open the door and He will come into them, and they will dine. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 12, 2014)

1222DANO said:


> i do not have all the answers on demon possession but for casting the demons out the way i read the bible it says to pray noon,night, and morning.. pray for yesterday,today and tomorrow.  Now that's three prayers and not heathen prayers neither its three meaningful prayers. So for casting out demons i'd start with the noon,night and morning prayers and move on to bringing in more true believers from there not the everyday person... The problem with having only 3 believers would be that if one and only one didn't believe from the tips of his hairs to the tips of his toes that Gods power was as real as sweet tea then their prayers hold no power of God. If they have any doubt their as good as a non believer.
> This might not be right but its as good of a start as any. Its saying we'll pick up our armor against these evil spirits. Our words will be as sharp as a double edged sword... now i don't have the scripts to give word for word counsel but its what i rest my head on.




Good to see you back Dano


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 12, 2014)

What did the apostles teach the early church about casting out demons??????????????????????????????????????


Anything?


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 12, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What did the apostles teach the early church about casting out demons??????????????????????????????????????
> 
> 
> Anything?



Yes..

Acts 5:16

New King James Version (NKJV)


16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.



Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 12, 2014)

This could be about the dividing time of which things ceased....



1 Corinthians Chapter 13

8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 12, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Good to see you back Dano




Thanks feels like family here, i can't get away.. they'll be disagreements we'll just turn to what we do agree on maybe revisit later. The difference between agreeing to disagree is the difference between evil and good. if we stick our heads in a hole and didn't ever try to do the good in a situation then we let the evil spirits win out. jmo 

My dad had a good way of casting out evil spirits but that is now illegal and frowned upon.. We now just let the spirits do whatever and put them in time out..


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 12, 2014)

When a mean child has grown up without any type of punishments other than losing his xbox and timeout. Seems like the burden has been placed on society to correct him 'taking stuff away no longer works' they don't care about stuff no longer. then there is those who take it to far and beat kids so its a win,lose or draw. How do you keep evil minds in check? Our prison's are full and continue to grow.. I remember when i was at my fathers house about 12 years old and we we're hanging tobacco up in the barn. My Grandpa was a strict man had hands the size of basketballs. His son 30 or 35 years old started putting down his brother and bad mouthing everyone. Grandpa picks up a tobacco stick warps him across the back putting him in the dirt and told him he would not speak evil of his family.. Did that cast out an evil spirit? i don't know but i learned a lesson along with him.. i kept my mouth shut and asked what i could do to help. its all i got on evil spirits.


----------



## kmh1031 (Jan 12, 2014)

*Devil, and Demon Possession*

Just a few thoughts to those already commented on..

Some of Jesus’ greatest miracles involved the setting of possessed persons free from captivity to the demons. They were powerless against him. But not everyone was happy with his demon-expelling work. 

The Pharisees accused him of being in league with the ruler of the demons, Beelzebub, whereas in reality, as Jesus pointed out, they themselves were the offspring of the Devil. (Mt 9:34; 12:24; Mr 3:22; Lu 11:15; Joh 7:20; 8:44, 48-52) 

Jesus knew the source of the power that gave him mastery over the demons, and he openly confessed that it was God's spirit. (Mt 12:28; Lu 8:39; 11:20) The demons themselves recognized Jesus’ identity and addressed him as the “Son of God,” “the Holy One of God,” and “Jesus, Son of the Most High God.” (Mt 8:29; Mr 1:24; 3:11; 5:7; Lu 4:34, 41; Ac 19:15; Jas 2:19) 

However, at no time would Jesus allow them to witness in his behalf. (Mr 3:12) On the other hand, a man who was set free from the power of the demons was encouraged to publish to his relatives ‘all the things Jehovah had done for him.’—Mr 5:18-20.

Jesus also gave authority over the demons to his 12 apostles, and later to the 70 that he sent out, so that in the name of Jesus they too were able to cure the demon-possessed. (Mt 10:8; Mr 3:15; 6:13; Lu 9:1; 10:17) Even one not an immediate associate of Jesus or his apostles was able to exorcise a demon on the basis of Jesus’ name. (Mr 9:38-40; Lu 9:49, 50) 

After the death of Jesus, the apostles continued to have this power. Paul ordered “a demon of divination” out of a slave girl, much to the anger of her money-loving owners. (Ac 16:16-19) But when certain impostors, the seven sons of priest Sceva, attempted to cast out a demon in the name of “Jesus whom Paul preaches,” the demon-possessed man seized and severely mauled the seven of them and stripped them naked.—Ac 19:13-16.

Sometimes it is reported that spirit mediums have cast these demons out; this calls to mind what Jesus said: “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not . . . expel demons in your name . . . ?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you!” (Mt 7:22, 23) Compelling reasons, then, for heeding the counsel, “Be watchful,” and, “Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil” and his demons.—1Pe 5:8; Eph 6:11.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 12, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What did the apostles teach the early church about casting out demons??????????????????????????????????????
> 
> 
> Anything?




Luke 10:17

“17 The Seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons submit to us *in Your name.”*


Mark 16:17-18

“17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: *In My name* they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18 they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.”


Acts16:18

.....“But Paul was greatly aggravated and turning to the spirit, said, “I command you *in the name of Jesus Christ *to come out of her! ” And it came out right away.”

The seven sons of Sceva were not believers therefore could not exercise the authority of Christ over the demons.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 12, 2014)

Lowjack said:


> My Experience in the last 18 years , living in Miami Where Religions of the African persuasion is in every corner , evil spirits exist , they have different categories as well as Jobs , it is a well oiled machine set lose on this world , they have different ranks as well as form or shape or shapeless. Their main Job is to deceit the world on behalf of Satan. The demons of Santeria which is similar to Voodoo is mostly practiced down here by Cubans , Are low ranking demons , their jobs is too serve the master Babalowed(Priest) they mimick spirits of departed family , they are known in the bible as "familiar spirits"They can possess a subject AKA Medium and speak through it , usually nonsensical messages and even in other languages which the host doesn't speak , I have seen this in many occasions. Then there are the more powerful Spirits which are called dark entities , this are the ones that Mimick African gods or "Orishas"While the familiar spirits are easily cast out the Orisha will give you a battle and may return for several battles , these I have seen in person and manifested even in my house after teaching this to students , they do not want their secrets given away, they cannot stand the name of Christ or the FAther ot Holy Spirit or anything Holy , even Christian music will drive them away , returning several times until they are worned down , then are other entities who are solid and semi solid ,appear as human beings and can disappear at will or shapeshift , I also had an encountered with one of this. A man of God must be vigilant and aware of who is around you at all times , in Prayer in the spirit and always seeking God in Mind and Spirit.



Fascinating, but hey it's Florida.  What do you expect?


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 12, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> What did the apostles teach the early church about casting out demons??????????????????????????????????????
> 
> 
> Anything?





SemperFiDawg said:


> Luke 10:17
> 
> “17 The Seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons submit to us *in Your name.”*
> 
> ...



You misunderstood my question above.
What did the apostles teach the early Christians...... not what did the apostles do.

I don't believe there's a person alive today with the ability to tell if someone was possessed by an indwelling evil spirit.
There is no basis for you to raise someone from the dead.... there is no basis for you to be thinking that you, or anyone else, is going to pray an indwelling evil spirit from the guts of an individual.

There simply is no basis for it.  It's all talk.  There is no biblical basis for it.  Just because it happened then, and it was neat, is no indication that it's even a possibility now.

We've all received much instructions on how to conduct and carry out God's will today.  Lambasting evil embodiments weren't a part of that instruction.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 12, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> You misunderstood my question above.
> What did the apostles teach the early Christians...... not what did the apostles do.
> 
> I don't believe there's a person alive today with the ability to tell if someone was possessed by an indwelling evil spirit.
> ...




I respectfully disagree with you on this Ronnie for a number of reasons.

1) The need for miracles today is not lessened after 2000 years.

2 Gods power/sovereignty, love and mercy haven't waned.

3) I can find no scriptural support to suggest those things Jesus promised have, or were meant to have, an expiration date.  

4) We willingly recognize that Gods covenants with Israel have yet to be completely fulfilled, but we fully believe they will be.  On what basis then should we expect his promises to the Church to be limited simply based on elapsed time since the promise was made.

5) If I am saved by grace through faith, it's hypocritical of me to cap my faith there and not continue to trust in Jesus for everything else he promised.  In other words, if I trust in Christ for my very salvation, how can I not trust him completely and take him on his word for everything else he promised.  That to me smacks of not fully trusting him.
I think it must be an all or none proposition.  

6) Miracles, and I mean big uns are happening every day.

Andrew White a priest in the Anglican Church of England and currently the Vicar of Bagdad, Iraq is quite possibly the flattest, driest person I have every heard speak.  He recently testified that an Iraqi child was raised from the dead after being prayed over and sprinkled with Holy Water by her father.   Not exactly what you would expect from an Anglican priest.   His response to the father after learning of the miracle:  "It happens."

Ravi Zacharias continually testifies of the miraculous visions and dreams about Jesus that by all accounts appear to be breaking out all across the Muslim controlled countries in the Middle East.  Again his name isn't exactly synonymous with the Charismatic Movement.  In fact he warns against the dangers of over emotional preaching with no structured teaching or instruction, yet he reports these events as first hand evidence of God working miracles today.

7).  God dwelled with the Israelites first in a tabernacle then the temple.  During this time he performed many miracles for them.  He left when they abandoned him and forsook their faith.   He returned and dwelled again with them for 33 or so years in the form of a man, Jesus Christ.  Again he performed many miracles.  He was crucified because of their lack of faith in him, and rose again.  He promised that he would send the Holy Spirit to dwell IN not WITH all believers and that through them many miracles would be performed.  He delivered on that promise as well.  If the HOLY GHOST of GOD resides IN me, and it's the same Holy Ghost that resided in the early apostles, what other than my lack of faith, can constrain GOD from performing miracles through me?  'Faith the size of a mustard seed'.  Remember?

God Bless you Ronnie.  I love you with the love Christ loves me with and I respect you and your opinion immensely.  This difference of doctrinal beliefs will not affect that one iota.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jan 12, 2014)

For years I traveled around and prayed with Native Americans.  Lodges, sun dance, etc . Since then the Holy Spirit shook me straight and I was humbled by Christ Love. I spent alot of time praying to spirits and what the Bible would consider demons. One night in a lodge the old Lakota man pouring the lodge stopped.  He said to us you guys need to know about Christ. He is your Lord and he is here.  Things got weird that night. Even that Old man knew that God and Christ trumped everything else. I never feared most those Spirits.  But the real living God like the bible says is so much more powerful. Those spirits know they have not nothing on God and back down. They are there but there real threat is distracting us from the real God. Keep our eyes and heart focused on Christ and the spirits are powerless.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I respectfully disagree with you on this Ronnie for a number of reasons.
> 
> 1) The need for miracles today is not lessened after 2000 years.
> 
> ...



I don't consider it to be a difference of doctrinal beliefs because there are no doctrinal teachings on how the early church members, or us, were to even recognize an evil spirit that has overtaken a person's body.

I cannot do what I don't have the knowledge to do.
I can pretend!  But I'm not much on that sort of stuff.
Love ya brother.


----------



## formula1 (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re:*

The whole work of Christ is to destroy the work of Satan in the earth, so we have plenty of instructions in His Word to do so. But not by our knowledge or power but by His Spirit as He wills! 

RonnieT:  Everytime one has heard your voice and responded to your call for them to repent and turn to Christ, you cast out a demon!  But it was not really you, but rather Christ in you who moved in power and changed a life. So whether you see it that way or not, your willingness to be a vessel for Him did that work.  And really, it's not for you or me to see or know necessarily, but be willing to give what He has given us away. So keep doing what you have been called to do with the confidence of the Holy Spirit by your side. You will continually change lives from darkness to light. God, as you know, gives you exactly what you need to be exactly what He wants!

I can say this with all honesty, that I know of a demon that I wish to cast out right now and I would do it right now if I could.  But I cannot manufacture such an event purely from my own will or even my own faith, regardless of how much I prayed or fasted.  It must come from the hand of God by the Holy Spirit and by His clear instruction and purposes. So toward that end you and I will continue to pray earnestly, until God via the Holy Spirit casts that one out and life is restored!  God Bless and thank you!


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2014)

But from earlier discussions some Christians believe in the cessation of the Holy Spirit to the point of the only way the Holy Spirit manifest itself in today's world is through the Holy Bible.
This and miracles has come to an end according to their beliefs. If miracles has ended then so has the need to cast out demons or demon possession.
I was reading this from a Church of Christ site:


Secondly, It should also be considered that since the age of miracles has ended (1Corinthians 13:8-13), and the ability to cast out demons is classified in the New Testament as a miraculous ability (Mark 9:38-41), then the ability to cast out demons is no longer available to man. Since therefore the ability to cast out demons is no longer available it should be understood that God no longer allows people (Christians or non-Christians) to be adversely affected by demons. If a physical or mental infirmity prevents people today from being able to hear, understand, accept and obey the gospel it should not be blamed on demon possession. That would be inconsistent with the teaching of the New Testament.

http://www.renaroadchurchofchrist.com/Demon_Possession_Article.htm

It could just be what we consider as "demons." Could a person hooked on drugs be demon possessed? 
If miracles and demons has ceased, what about the work of Satan? Did his power cease during the cessation of the Holy Spirit? I believe if we have Satan then we need the Holy Spirit in spirit form dwelling in us.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 13, 2014)

This very discussion is going on in a fb group I belong to...this was posted there about the charismatic movement & cessation.. I kind of fit in the middle on this topic, I see both sides.
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/35.htm


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> This very discussion is going on in a fb group I belong to...this was posted there about the charismatic movement & cessation.. I kind of fit in the middle on this topic, I see both sides.
> http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/35.htm



I get confused about what was needed in the early Church and why it's not needed in the modern Church. I do understand we all have readable Bibles but what are some key verses that we don't need the things the early Church had?
Getting back to demons, what are some key verses that casting out demons has ceased?


----------



## Lowjack (Jan 13, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Thank you for your post.  It's very interesting and informative.
> 
> Do you have any thought on why this subject is not front and center in Christian teaching?



The Emphasis and focus of the Gospel has changed , it used to be taught in Churches everywhere even from the 1500's on during the protestant/catholic reformation , today the churche's emphasis is on healing and prosperity gospel .


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 13, 2014)

Lowjack said:


> The Emphasis and focus of the Gospel has changed , it used to be taught in Churches everywhere even from the 1500's on during the protestant/catholic reformation , today the churche's emphasis is on healing and prosperity gospel.



I agree many are, but my hope is not most. It really saddens me to hear some of the prosperity sermons on TV.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 13, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I get confused about what was needed in the early Church and why it's not needed in the modern Church. I do understand we all have readable Bibles but what are some key verses that we don't need the things the early Church had?
> Getting back to demons, what are some key verses that casting out demons has ceased?



1 Corinthians 13.  Is the one used. For it to be fulfilled requires (perfect) to have come. Some say perfect represents Christ--full preterist say this is another example of Christ's return having come already. Some say perfect is representative of the canon....It also is argued that only some gifts have ceased... either way I believe an answer can be found there.


----------



## formula1 (Jan 13, 2014)

If ever there were a passage of scripture taken totally out of context to prove a cessationist point of view it is 1 Cor 13. It simply has nothing whatsoever to do with it.  It is about love people and moreover the type of Love that God wants us to have, keep, and embrace above all other gifts He gives.  It's about weighing the priority of Love against all other spiritual gifts in the church. Nothing else! That's it. And it is so clear!

To begin, just look at verse 31 of the previous chapter. Paul just completes the discussion of gifts that should operate in the church and his discussion of body life, with Christ as the head. And then he leads us to this comment:

1 Cor 12:31 'But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.'

I'm not too bright, but if Paul says there's a more excellent way to view gifts and it's relationship to the body of Christ, I might be inclined to listen.

1) Chapter 13 (V1-V3) - a gift operating in God's earthly body outside of Love is a totally worthless one. You gain nothing from it, you are nothing because of it.
2) Chapter 13 (V4-V8 part) - a complete description of the Love that must flow out of the body of Christ. Powerful, very powerful, if we only operate out of love like this! We would turn the world upside down!
3) Chapter 13 (V8 part - 12) - One who loves as God has described has all he really needs to be effective for Christ in the body of believers. And a gift of the Holy Spirit operating from one who first Loves as God intended will always be pure.  
My simple contention here is this: The Love of God in us and poured out to others will never end. Yet true,  there is an end to prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. V8 says they will 'pass away' .

And when might that be be? Paul doesn't directly tell us, but he does give some hints for the end of these gifts:
1) 'For we know in part and prophesy in part' . Just a question for you to ponder here but does anyone reading this discussion 'know in full' everything there is to know concerning God? I want to meet you if that's true! Now I know what folks will say and will argue that this is the scriptural canon.  But is that what this scripture specifically says?  You know the truth!
2) 'But when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away'. Again, a dumb question, is your life perfected right now?  And Again,I want to meet you if it is!  Jesus indeed is perfected but the truth is His body is far from it! And still no specific mention of this relating to scripture at all!
3) Verse 11 - From a child to a man, how does that happen? Maturity! Does anyone here proclaim complete maturity in Christ Jesus? I will speak for myself here and mention I'm smart enough to know I'm a work in progress at 53! And again no specific mention that this has anything to with scripture!
4) Verse 12 - In my view, the most condeming scripture to the cause of the cessationist. Let ask, does anyone see God face-to-face right now?  Do you know fully? Are you fully known? I've got to meet you if you qualify!

No this passage is all about Love being the primary focus of our walk in Christ and further, how dead we are as Christians without it! Dare I suggest that one should be careful of any man coming to such conclusions in Scripture that just are not written there!

Did anyone look at 1 Cor 14:1? 'Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. '  I think it is very clear what God is saying through Paul, and I hope you see it as well! 

If you are Christ's, you are accepted into my eternal family no matter what specifically you might accept or believe or teach about gifts! But I hope you will choose to teach Love.  Patient love, kind love, a love that without envy or boasting or arrogance. Love that is not rude, love that does not care about it's own way, love that is never resentful,  love that refuses to rejoice in wrongdoing, and love that rejoices in truth. In this we all have much success in Christ!

God Bless!


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 13, 2014)

Formula1, You are correct about the subject of love. I dont ask this question in disagreement or in a way to setup debate. I just earnestly would like your idea of exactly what Paul meant by these verses...in otherwords, why did he feel the need to say this?

Thanks.



8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> There are many scriptures about demons and evil spirits in the Bible.  The books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke contain several examples of Jesus casting out demons and empowering His disciples to do the same.  The book of Acts details examples of the disciples casting out demons and evil spirits.
> 
> Scripture warns against being deceived by evil spirits.
> 
> ...



The above comments are from the OP of this thread.

HJ is asking a question concerning the casting out of demons and evil spirits today, just as it was done during the days of Jesus, and to some degree during the days of the apostles.

This is a separate subject from Satan and his work of evil in the world.  Certainly Satan is still busy.  He prowls around seeking whom he might destroy with his evilness.

But the necessity to cast out an evil spirit from an individual is a whole different subject.
Just because there was demon possession in the first century doesn't give me, or you, the authority to claim someone is demon possessed today.

Just because a person is a drug addict does not mean he/she is "demon possessed" in the sense that the OP is asking.

The scripture text that HJ uses above aren't about an individual being possessed by an evil spirit, but about a person who chose to "follow" evil rather than good.

Some of you have insinuated that I'm claiming that the Holy Spirit is no longer active today....... But it's an incorrect assumption on your part.  Of Course the Holy Spirit is active today.  But that doesn't mean any of you have any right to "claim" that someone has been possessed by an evil spirit.

There's simply no Biblical authority, and very little modern day evidence that any person is possessed.  
To claim that is to take Biblical information and misuse to for improper purposes today.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2014)

For what it's worth, and however it might benefit you, sermon from this past Lord's day.
*************************************************

Christian & Temptations (James 1:12-18) 

Everyone put your hand out. Imagine with me that you have a lemon in your hand. Feel how cold it is since you just took it out of the refrigerator. Feel the two knobs on the ends? Ok, now take a knife and cut the lemon in half. Careful! Don’t cut yourself. Oh, look at the juice run down over the sides. Now, put one half down and just hold the other half of the lemon. Now, look at the inside of the cut lemon. Lean down and smell the lemon. Get a good full sense of the lemon fresh scent of the just cut lemon. Ok, now squeeze the lemon. See the juice ooze up and cover the surface of the cut lemon? Now - lick the lemon. That’s right! Lick the lemon. Ok, who feels like you have more saliva than you did a minute a go? How can that be? It was only pretend! 

The reason is because your body reacts to that which your mind thinks about. 

1.  One of the great challenges of Christian living is dealing with “temptations”.
	a.  It can be frustrating to be a Christian, yet bombarded with temptations.
2.  James has some helpful words for understanding temptations.
	a.  I won’t us to look at James 2:12 this morning.

*I.  First.  The Promise.*  James 1: 12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

A.  The man who successfully deals with temptation will receive the crown of life.
	1.  Blessed is that man.

B.  The suggestion:  Those who love the Lord will properly dispose of temptation.
	1.  And they will receive eternal life.
	2.  Promise.

*II.  Next.  A Caution  *(13)  13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He doesn’t tempt any man.

A.  Your temptation does not come from God.
	a.  God is holy.
	b.  God doesn’t deal in evil.
	c.  Don’t blame God

B.  16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 
           1.  In other words, “Don’t get this wrong?”
		a.  God is the source of good in your life.
			1).  Not evil.
		b.  God does not tempt you.
	2.  There is no variation to that.

C.  How does Sin Develop?  James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

	1.  The first stage is Temptation.
		a.  Having a strong desire for something.
		b.  Then being afforded the opportunity to have what you desire.
			1).  Gotta have both of those for temptation.
		c.  Temptation = Desire + Opportunity.
			1).  You don’t really want to go to church on Sunday morning…….
			2).  Then someone calls inviting you to go to beach Sunday morning.
				a).  Bam………… Temptation.
		d.  But remember, it isn’t a sin yet.
			1).  Only temptation:  And Jesus was tempted.  Heb 4:15  15 For we do 			not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, 				but was in all points tempted as we are…. 
	2.  The 2nd stage is the actual commitment of Sin.  James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 
		a.  Sin requires that temptation be taken one step further.
		b.  Sin = Desire + Opportunity + Action.

D.  So, How Can One Stand Strong against Sin……………….?

	1.  One way:  “Change our Desires”.
		a.  Gal 5:24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its 					passions and desires. 
		b.  Psalm 119:11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, 
					That I might not sin against You. 		c.  Psalm 119:104 Through Your precepts I get understanding; 
					Therefore I hate every false way. 
		d.  Through discipleship, we change our desires.
			1).  But what else can we also do????????


	2.  Another thing we can do:  Limit Our Opportunity to Sin.
		a.  Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit 							indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 
			1).  We watch what we’re doing, and we pray.
			2).  We purposely avoid temptable situations.
		b.  Psalm 101:3 I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of 			those who fall away; It shall not cling to me. 

4 A perverse heart shall depart 			from me; I will not know wickedness. 
		c.  Job 31:1 “I have made a covenant with my eyes; 
				Why then should I look upon a young woman? 
		d.  1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good 							habits.” 
		e.  Stay away from people, places, and situations that are questionable.

	3.  Also:  We Must Learn to Exercise “Self-Control”.
		a.  If we can control ourselves, we can prevent sin.
		b.  Self-control is one part of the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal 5.
		c.  Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live 		according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; 			but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 			1).  We are debtors.
				a).  Either to what the world wants me to do.
				b).  Or what the Holy Spirit would lead me to do.
			2).  Those are the primary considerations in “self-control”.
		d.  1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is 			common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted 			beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of 			escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
			1).  In other words, there is no excuses.
			2).  God always nudges His children to do what is right.

E.  But, there are times when we might sin.
	1.  “The wages of sin is death”.
	2.  We must obtain forgiveness for that sin.
		a.  Acts 8:22 A Sinning Christian was told…22 Repent therefore of this your 		wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be 			forgiven you. 
		b.  1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our 		sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

*Conclusion:*

1.  God loves us enough to forgive us………….
	a.  Whenever we are sorry, and we admit to Him our sins.

2.  How could anyone think God tempts us?
	a.  God will test us.
	b.  God will discipline us.
	c.  But God does not place sin before us.

3.  Do you use God’s gifts to withstand sin in your life?
	a.  Do you ask God’s forgiveness for your failures?

4.  Even more, does God consider Himself to be your Heavenly Father?
	a.  It is the most assuring relationship ever.


----------



## formula1 (Jan 13, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Formula1, You are correct about the subject of love. I dont ask this question in disagreement or in a way to setup debate. I just earnestly would like your idea of exactly what Paul meant by these verses...in otherwords, why did he feel the need to say this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...



Hobbs27:

If I read this in the context of Paul's entire message, I simply see it as him contrasting his point of the temporary nature of gifts compared to the eternal nature of love. We live now in the partial, or a dimly incomplete view and still need love operating with spiritual gifts, too. When we are face to face with Him we have need of only love that will remain.

I had hoped I covered that initially. I hope that helps!


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 13, 2014)

formula1 said:


> I had hoped I covered that initially. I hope that helps!



Thanks, yes this helps.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jan 14, 2014)

I would like to add that not all Church of Christ members follow the "Word only" attributes of the Holy Spirit:

Work of the Holy Spirit

During the late 19th century, the prevailing view in the Restoration Movement was that the Holy Spirit currently acts only through the influence of inspired scripture.[72] This rationalist view was associated with Alexander Campbell, who was "greatly affected by what he viewed as the excesses of the emotional camp meetings and revivals of his day".[72] He believed that the Spirit draws people towards salvation but understood the Spirit to do this "in the same way any person moves another—by persuasion with words and ideas". This view came to prevail over that of Barton W. Stone, who believed the Spirit had a more direct role in the life of the Christian.[72] Since the early 20th century, many, but not all, among the Churches of Christ have moved away from this "word-only" theory of the operation of the Holy Spirit.[73] As one scholar of the movement puts it, "[f]or better or worse, those who champion the so-called word-only theory no longer have a hold on the minds of the constituency of Churches of Christ. Though relatively few have adopted outright charismatic and third wave views and remained in the body, apparently the spiritual waves have begun to erode that rational rock."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ#Work_of_the_Holy_Spirit


----------



## HawgJawl (Jan 14, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> The above comments are from the OP of this thread.
> 
> HJ is asking a question concerning the casting out of demons and evil spirits today, just as it was done during the days of Jesus, and to some degree during the days of the apostles.
> 
> ...



Is it possible that demon possession is only possible for someone who does not belong to the Lord?  Christians are tempted but are protected from being possessed by an evil spirit.

If that is the case, then scripture that was written to Christians concerning Christians resisting temptation, would obviously not address demon possession.  Demon possession would be a totally different topic than instructions and encouragement on how Christians should live their lives and attempt to be more Christ-like.

Demon possession in heathens seemed to be such a prevalent issue at that time, perhaps they saw no need to specifically address it.  Maybe it was just assumed that everyone knew what it was and to follow the disciple's example of how to deal with it.


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 14, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I would like to add that not all Church of Christ members follow the "Word only" attributes of the Holy Spirit:
> 
> Work of the Holy Spirit
> 
> ...



I'm sorry Art, I didn't realize this thread was a church of Christ subject.  ???????


----------



## Ronnie T (Jan 14, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Is it possible that demon possession is only possible for someone who does not belong to the Lord?  Christians are tempted but are protected from being possessed by an evil spirit.
> 
> If that is the case, then scripture that was written to Christians concerning Christians resisting temptation, would obviously not address demon possession.  Demon possession would be a totally different topic than instructions and encouragement on how Christians should live their lives and attempt to be more Christ-like.
> 
> Demon possession in heathens seemed to be such a prevalent issue at that time, perhaps they saw no need to specifically address it.  Maybe it was just assumed that everyone knew what it was and to follow the disciple's example of how to deal with it.



If a person isn't a child of  God they already have a healthy dose of ungodliness in their lives.  The devil is already there.  They're already controlled by him.


----------



## BT Charlie (Jan 14, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> If a person isn't a child of  God they already have a healthy dose of ungodliness in their lives.  The devil is already there.  They're already controlled by him.



I agree.  We were children of the devil himself prior to Christ.

Hawg's point is widely embraced.  Christ cast out demons, apostles cast out demons, we are fully empowered in Christ's power alone to invoke His name to do the same. By the Blood of the Lamb, by fasting, by prayer and intercession.


If I read history correctly, exorcism doctrine was embraced and taught by Martin Luther.  Pastoral guidance on such existed within the Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian and Roman Catholic churches. (At least...can any cite others?)

Demon possession of believers was thought to occur with the permission of God for His glory and fulfillment of His will, that the inflicted be freed ultimately of demonic indwelling. That is interesting, and loosely seems consistent with Job and modern church discipline involving unrepentant sinners, whom we are told to hand over to satan in the love and hope that they repent and return to Christ for salvation. Do any believe our sovereign God will allow and indirectly utilize evil to bring about His justness, righteousness, will?


Lowjack and SFD recite modern antectdotal evidence of demon possession.  I think it is wise to clearly distinguish demonic possession from fallen flesh and its temptation.

There may be much wisdom in this "You have no right to declare a person demon possessed."  One could also be sued for defamation, or stalking, kidnap, assault, etc., if the warning is not heeded and temptation to ignore it manifests into some kind of deliverance intervention.

Still, it does not answer what a loving believer is to do when a fellow comes to you and seeks help in fear he is in fact possessed. And his loved ones agree, in terror. And no medical expert can diagnose nor treat that which ails him.  Facial contortions. Cutting. Convulsions.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 14, 2014)

BT Charlie said:


> Still, it does not answer what a loving believer is to do when a fellow comes to you and seeks help in fear he is in fact possessed. And his loved ones agree, in terror. And no medical expert can diagnose nor treat that which ails him.  Facial contortions. Cutting. Convulsions.



 When a fellow comes to you and seeks help in fear he is in fact possessed...maybe we should assume the Lord has sent him to us and we tell him who Jesus Christ is and pray for/with this fellow for salvation.

 This fellow has not because he has asked not for Liberty.


----------



## Lowjack (Jan 18, 2014)

"Watching the local News last night in Miami , The Vatican has sent their most well known Exorcist to Miami To perform an Exorcism and will be going to several cities Around the USA"


----------



## Lowjack (Jan 18, 2014)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92541


----------



## hobbs27 (Jan 18, 2014)

Lowjack said:


> "Watching the local News last night in Miami , The Vatican has sent their most well known Exorcist to Miami To perform an Exorcism and will be going to several cities Around the USA"



Maybe they will get around to DC.


----------



## 1222DANO (Jan 18, 2014)

4 Moses answered, “What if they do not believe me or listen to me and say, ‘The Lord did not appear to you’?”

2 Then the Lord said to him, “What is that in your hand?”

“A staff,” he replied.

3 The Lord said, “Throw it on the ground.”

Moses threw it on the ground and it became a snake, and he ran from it. 4 Then the Lord said to him, “Reach out your hand and take it by the tail.” So Moses reached out and took hold of the snake and it turned back into a staff in his hand. 5 “This,” said the Lord, “is so that they may believe that the Lord, the God of their fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has appeared to you.”

6 Then the Lord said, “Put your hand inside your cloak.” So Moses put his hand into his cloak, and when he took it out, the skin was leprous[a]—it had become as white as snow.

7 “Now put it back into your cloak,” he said. So Moses put his hand back into his cloak, and when he took it out, it was restored, like the rest of his flesh.

8 Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9 But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you, take some water from the Nile and pour it on the dry ground. The water you take from the river will become blood on the ground.”

10 Moses said to the Lord, “Pardon your servant, Lord. I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue.”

11 The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”

13 But Moses said, “Pardon your servant, Lord. Please send someone else.”

14 Then the Lord’s anger burned against Moses and he said, “What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and he will be glad to see you. 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do. 16 He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him. 17 But take this staff in your hand so you can perform the signs with it.”

i know the devil is real and gives us something to know GOD is real. The non believers are those who just fill their mind with questions and never receive answers. They know not how to correct their minds. they will just live a life full of questions, making their own lives in question. So if by telling you GOD is real and of his power and you don't believe. I'll bring forth the devil inside of me and lead you unto HECK.  Then you'll be looking for GOD cause you have seen the devil.


----------

