# "Official" 2013 Masters Challenge



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 10, 2013)

In honor of General Lee...

Pick a player from Tiers 1, 2, 3, and 4. That will be your foursome.  The total score of these 4 golfers will be your score.  If one of your 4 players misses the cut, you will get a +7 for that player regardless of his score.  Then, pick a golfer from Tier 5. If your player from this group just makes the cut, you get a -7 for that player deducted from your total score.  If he doesn't make the cut, you are not penalized. Then enter your tiebreaker.  The tiebreaker will be the total number of birdies in the tournament by Yellow Jacket Matt Kuchar and Bulldog Bubba Watson.  You can tweak your picks as many times as you want, but all submissions are final Thursday morning at 8.

As of this moment, there is no prize but if something comes up we can add it in as a bonus.

I based the tiers on current Vegas odds.

Tier 1: Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Rory McIlroy

Tier 2: Justin Rose, Charl Schwartzel, Dustin Johnson, Lee Westwood, Louis Oosthuizen, Adam Scott, Brandt Snedeker, Keegan Bradley, Bubba Watson, Luke Donald, Matt Kuchar, Hunter Mahan, Ian Poulter

Tier 3: Sergio Garcia, Rickie Fowler, Graeme McDowell, Henrik Stenson, Jason Day, Jim Furyk, Nick Watney, Padraig Harrington, Steve Stricker, Webb Simpson, Jason Dufner, KJ Choi, Bill Haas, Martin Kaymer, Martin Laird, Peter Hanson, Angel Cabrera, Nicolas Colsaerts, Bo Van Pelt, Ernie Els, Zach Johnson, Fredrik Jacobson, Ryan Moore, Thorbjorn Olesen, Fred Couples, Francesco Molinari, George Coetzee, Matteo Manassero, Robert Garrigus

Tier 4: Russell Henley, Stewart Cink, Vijay Singh,  Branden Grace, Carl Pettersson, DA Points, David Toms, Gonzalo Fernandez-Castano, John Huh, John Senden, Kevin Streelman, Michael Thompson, Richard Sterne, Scott Piercy, Tim Clark, Trevor Immelman, YE Yang, John Merrick, Ben Curtis, Brian Gay, Jamie Donaldson, Paul Lawrie, Thomas Bjorn, Kevin Na, Lucas Glover, Marc Leishman, Ryo Ishikawa, David Lynn, Hioryuki Fujita, John Peterson, Ted Potter Jr, Thaworn Wiratchant

Tier 5: Amateurs and Old Champs with no shot: Tom Watson, Bernhard Langer, Jose Maria Olazabal, Mike Weir, Mark O'Meara, Craig Stadler, Ian Woosnam, Ben Crenshaw, Larry Mize, Sandy Lyle, Alan Dunbar (a), Nathan Smith (a), Michael Weaver (a), Steven Fox (a), TJ Vogel (a), Tian-Lang Guan (a)


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## Da Possum (Apr 10, 2013)

Rory McIlroy
Matt Kuchar
Angel Cabrera
Vijay Singh
Ian Woosnam

22


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## Ol' Buckmaster (Apr 10, 2013)

Tiger
Westwood
Sergio
Pettersson
Langer
28


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 10, 2013)

hdm, don't forget the tiebreaker


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## stringmusic (Apr 10, 2013)

I hate to do it, but Tiger
Keegan Bradley
Jason Dufner
Gonzalo Ferandez-Castano
Bernhard Langer

Tiebreaker- 24

BTW, I appreciate you doing this!


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## rex upshaw (Apr 10, 2013)

tiger
kuchar
dufner
Henley
langer

19

fyi, I believe Darren Clarke is not playing this week.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 10, 2013)

Woods
Bubba
Manassero
Immelman
Fox

21

I win... wheres my ham?


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## gacowboy (Apr 10, 2013)

Rory McIlroy
Bubba Watson
Rickie Fowler
David Toms
Tom Watson

27


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 10, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> fyi, I believe Darren Clarke is not playing this week.



I'll remove him, just in case, but nobody was gonna pick him anyways...


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## Nitram4891 (Apr 10, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> In honor of General Lee...
> 
> Tier 1: Tiger Woods
> 
> ...


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## KyDawg (Apr 10, 2013)

McIlroy
Choi
Snedeker
t. Clark
O'meara
20


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## rockdawg (Apr 10, 2013)

Rory
Bubba
Cabrera
Vijay
Olazabel
-17


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## Grand Slam (Apr 10, 2013)

Phil
Oos
Fowler
Cink
Jose Maria

28 birds


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## tjl1388 (Apr 10, 2013)

Woods
Hunter Mahan
Nicolas Colsaerts
DA Points

Michael Weaver

13


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## Da Possum (Apr 10, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> hdm, don't forget the tiebreaker



Got it now......thanks for doing this.  That Strang was in way ova his head


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 10, 2013)

Tiger Woods
Adam Scott
Webb Simpson
Michael Thompson
Steven Fox

30 birdies between Kuch and Bubba.


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## David Parker (Apr 10, 2013)

Tiger
B Snedeker
Furyk
Ishikawa
Tian-Lang Guan (He's been the buzz around town at age 14)

Tie = 33 birdies


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## David Parker (Apr 10, 2013)

Speaking of ... Par 3 on Master's site, live coverage now.


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Apr 10, 2013)

Woods
Poulter
Peter Hanson
K Steelman
Langer
24 birdies


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 10, 2013)

Woods
Kucher
Day
Henley
JMO

22 Birdies


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## golffreak (Apr 10, 2013)

Mickelson
Snedeker
Cabrera
Toms
Weir

22 Birdies


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## Hunter922 (Apr 10, 2013)

Tiger
Rose
Mcdowell
Cink
Weir

17 Birds.....


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## coon hunter (Apr 10, 2013)

Tiger woods
Hunter Mahan 
Padraig Harrington 
Ye yang 
Mike weir

35 birdies


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## rjcruiser (Apr 10, 2013)

Phil
Schwartzel
McDowell
Clark
Dunbar

24


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## DBM78 (Apr 11, 2013)

Phil
Dustin Johnson
Graeme McDowell
Russell Henley
Bernhard Langer

Tiebreaker 21


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## formula1 (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re:*

Tiger Woods
Bubba Watson
Rickie Fowler
Brendan Grace
Steven Fox

Tiebreaker 25


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## David Parker (Apr 11, 2013)

Foggy this morning and a little sprinkle before the sun came up.  Greens will dry out quick.


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## huntindawg (Apr 11, 2013)

Tier 1: Rory McIlroy

Tier 2: Brandt Snedeker

Tier 3: Zach Johnson

Tier 4: Lucas Glover

Tier 5: Nathan Smith

Birdies: 29

Know I'm late but I picked players that haven't teed off  yet.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 11, 2013)

huntindawg said:


> Tier 1: Rory McIlroy
> 
> Tier 2: Brandt Snedeker
> 
> ...





just this once I'll let it slide


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## David Parker (Apr 11, 2013)

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2013-04-11/tenn-man-arrested-augusta-national?v=1365686558


and it begins...


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## Paymaster (Apr 11, 2013)

He is a dimwit!


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## rex upshaw (Apr 11, 2013)

street preacher that shows up yearly.


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## Da Possum (Apr 11, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> street preacher that shows up yearly.



and often


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## David Parker (Apr 11, 2013)

Side action?  

Name the hole Sergio's wheels will come off on tomorrow.

I have him back to even by Nandina


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Apr 11, 2013)

2 of mine shot 76 so w/o a miracle i am toast.


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## KyDawg (Apr 11, 2013)

Did McIlroy look like a deer in the headlights all day or was it just me.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 11, 2013)

It aint over boys.......


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## rjcruiser (Apr 11, 2013)

ugh....my amateur is 93rd after round one.  Umm...yeah...that's not gonna work.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 11, 2013)

Bitteroot said:


> It aint over boys.......



Aye, there will be a lot of movement in the next two days.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Apr 11, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Tiger
> B Snedeker
> Furyk
> Ishikawa
> ...



Good choice on your 14-year-old Amateur pick who "shot a 1-over 73 in his first official round at Augusta.". 



http://espn.go.com/golf/masters13/s...nlang-guan-14-astounds-73-masters-opener-golf 

Tianlang Guan, 14, astounds in Masters opener

April 11, 2013 




> Guan, a 14-year-old Chinese eighth-grader, who qualified for the Masters by winning the Asia-Pacific Amateur Championship in November, shot a 1-over 73 in his first official round at Augusta.









"Tianlang Guan birdied the 18th hole on Thursday in the first round of the Masters to shoot a 1-over-par 73 at Augusta National Golf Club." 


AND 


http://espn.go.com/golf/masters13/s...sters-tianlang-guan-14-cards-73-opening-round 

China's Tianlang Guan, 14, at 1 over

April 11, 2013 




> His playground was Augusta National and the world had tuned in to watch the 14-year-old from China, the youngest player ever to tee it up at the Masters and youngest at any major in 148 years.








"Tianlang Guan was pumped up after draining a birdie putt on No. 18 that gave the 14-year-old a 1-over 73 in his Masters debut."


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## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2013)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Good choice on your 14-year-old Amateur pick who "shot a 1-over 73 in his first official round at Augusta.".
> 
> http://espn.go.com/golf/masters13/s...nlang-guan-14-astounds-73-masters-opener-golf
> 
> ...




eh...tomorrow's still left


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

He's a steely-eyed missile man.  Draino on 18 gave Ben a little adrenaline to sink his too.  Gonna be a great day today.  All my picks in red numbers. 

exept the phenom teen.  still pretty close though.


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## rex upshaw (Apr 12, 2013)

Bitteroot said:


> It aint over boys.......



I expect some of those names at the top to start going the other way.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 12, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> I expect some of those names at the top to start going the other way.



Yep... we'll see the tried and battle tested rise towards the top with a sprinkling of newbies making a run. There is always one guy that nobody saw coming, kinda like Bubba last year. What a great Tournament!!


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 12, 2013)

I'll post scores after today's round.  Remember that if your tier 5 player doesn't make the cut it does not hurt your final score.  But if they do, then its a big -7 to your overall total regardless of what they do on the weekend.


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

Projected cut is +5

C'mon Guan hunker down son!!!


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## Nitram4891 (Apr 12, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Projected cut is +5
> 
> C'mon Guan hunker down son!!!



Same with Langer!   Come on old man!


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

Poor Sergio.  I hate being right sometimes.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Projected cut is +5
> 
> C'mon Guan hunker down son!!!



Gonna be close @ +4.


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

he dropped a shot on 17 or 18 apparently.  Still got hella respect for this kid.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 12, 2013)

Looks like Manaserro +5,  may be gone and Fox too if he doesn't pull it together. My remaining field better put some scores up or I'm in trouble!


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

My only pro not in red currently


Now I get it.  They hatin on the boy 

http://espn.go.com/golf/masters13/story/_/id/9164772/2013-masters-tianlang-guan-shoots-75-penalty-slow-play


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## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2013)

David Parker said:


> he dropped a shot on 17 or 18 apparently.  Still got hella respect for this kid.



No doubt....I couldn't even play bogey golf on the local par 3 course at the age of 14....so major major kudos to him.

Kid can play and he has some confidence to boot as well.  Wish him the best of luck...seems like a good kid.


Phil dropped some easy shots on the back...made a horrible shot on 12  cost him 2 strokes.  Thought he'd be able to make up for it after the birdie on 13...but didn't do anything with it.

He was sooo excited to get back on the course after the back nine yesterday...he just didn't seem to have it today.  Wonder if he just felt too good yesterday afternoon  Either way...looks like he'll make the cut...but...not sure he's gonna be able to do enough to make a run at a 4th Jacket.  Needs to have a great round tomorrow and get off to a good start on the front.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2013)

David Parker said:


> My only pro not in red currently
> 
> 
> Now I get it.  They hatin on the boy
> ...



Ahh...didn't see that till now.

I guess he got plenty of warnings...but..c'mon really?  A penalty?  He must've really been playing slow.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 12, 2013)

I should have known better than picking a dwag.


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## Nitram4891 (Apr 12, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> I should have known better than picking a dwag.


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## David Parker (Apr 12, 2013)

Badge came through for Sunday .  

Tiger doesn't aim for the pins, he nails'm into the ground.  Tough break, so we'll see.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Apr 13, 2013)

Not bad for young 14-YO Tianlang Guan to be the youngest Masters player to make the cut even with that slow play penalty & be tied with Bubba Watson after the 2nd round.  Gotta say I expected Guan to play not near as good & not to make the cut but glad he proved me wrong.  Good for him.


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## walukabuck (Apr 13, 2013)

Masters officials to review potential illegal drop by Eldrick this morning. He could be going home for the weekend. One can only hope. My guess is that it's a lot easier to penalize a 14 year old than the golden boy.


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## David Parker (Apr 13, 2013)

1. He didn't go an extra yard back on purpose.
2. If he did, he would admit it and go home.
3. The Club isn't going to act on this and play will go on.

then again, he's been called a little bratty rude-boy so if that's true, he wouldn't admit to jack.

Never thought it would come to this.  Instant Replay for golf


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

walukabuck said:


> Masters officials to review potential illegal drop by Eldrick this morning. He could be going home for the weekend. One can only hope. My guess is that it's a lot easier to penalize a 14 year old than the golden boy.



As a golf fan, no Tiger would suck.


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

2 shot penalty.


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## DBM78 (Apr 13, 2013)

Should be DQ'D end of story. Most really golf fans and players feel this way if you don't read the rule book. No excuse he a pro if he had any questions he can get a offical.


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## lbzdually (Apr 13, 2013)

He admitted he dropped further back to gain an advantage.  He should DQ himself.  The only reason the Masters didn't do it is because he is Tiger Woods.


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## drhunter1 (Apr 13, 2013)

lbzdually said:


> He admitted he dropped further back to gain an advantage.  He should DQ himself.  The only reason the Masters didn't do it is because he is Tiger Woods.



This^^^^

I'm taking bets that he won't. The mans character isn't there to allow him to do the right thing.


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## drhunter1 (Apr 13, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> As a golf fan, no Tiger would suck.


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## lbzdually (Apr 13, 2013)

I actually like watching Tiger play, but I hate having the media constantly go gaga over him like he is the only player on the course.  Fred Couples and Jason Day should be the focal points until they fall from the lead.


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## Outlaw Dawgsey Wales (Apr 13, 2013)

lbzdually said:


> He admitted he dropped further back to gain an advantage.  He should DQ himself.  The only reason the Masters didn't do it is because he is Tiger Woods.



Hit Nail On Head.


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## Outlaw Dawgsey Wales (Apr 13, 2013)

drhunter1 said:


> This^^^^
> 
> I'm taking bets that he won't. The mans character isn't there to allow him to do the right thing.



Could imagine the outrage from ol Jesse and Rev.Al if he had been disqualified.Character,he is sorely lacking in.


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't think he should be dq'd. The rules commitee reviewed the drop as he was playing and determined it not to be a problem. They coulda sat him down and reviewed it before he signed his card but didn't. They only rethunk it AFTER he did his interview then changed their minds.


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## lbzdually (Apr 13, 2013)

toyota4x4h said:


> I don't think he should be dq'd. The rules commitee reviewed the drop as he was playing and determined it not to be a problem. They coulda sat him down and reviewed it before he signed his card but didn't. They only rethunk it AFTER he did his interview then changed their minds.



That's because he admitted he took an illegal drop.  It's a game where you are supposed to police yourself.


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

Yeah I understand that. But the ruling body had what an hour or two to say hey you violated a rule sign that you did before he gave that interview. So the rules committee had the chance and decided there was no violation. That's all I'm saying. I'm rooting for Freddy doesn't matter to me lol.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 13, 2013)

I'll trade my tiger for the last place on the cut.... He has no class.  Wish I'd never picked him.


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## gacowboy (Apr 13, 2013)

Golf is supposed to be played with honor,dignity,respect and honesty and a rule book. 
He played to drop to his advantage....
Even admitted it....


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Apr 13, 2013)

On moving day, looks like Michelson is moving the wrong way at +9 overall score tied with the 14-YO Guan with both right now in last place after yesterday's cut at +4 according to the online leaderboard.


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

I figured out now this isn't the masters discussion page my apologies for hacking lol.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 13, 2013)

Tiger Woods, the SEC of the PGA tour.


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## walukabuck (Apr 13, 2013)

As a golf fan, it would be better if the idiot disappeared so we could actually watch golf instead of having to hear about him. 12 minutes in to TV and haven't seen a shot yet.


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Tiger Woods, the SEC of the PGA tour.



The best?


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## walukabuck (Apr 13, 2013)

8 minutes of golf, and then talk Eldrick some more.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 13, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> The best?



Maybe I should have said the Rick Flair of PGA?


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Maybe I should have said the Rick Flair of PGA?



To be the man, you've gotta beat the man?


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 13, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> To be the man, you've gotta beat the man?



Dirtiest player in the game?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2013)

As a Tiger hater, I agree....he should be ordering a Blizzard at the DQ right now...except for one thing.  Rule 33-7.  The ole get out of jail free card.  Because of that....they can do what they want....and because of that, it gives Tiger a way to stay in it and still have some credibility.

The only question is...would they have utilized that for joe schmo?  I guess so.

Also, that new rule 33-7....kinda destroys the integrity of the game...but, I think that TV instant reply to try and regulate the rules is kinda bogus too.  The rules official at that time should know what's going on....and they need to make a decision at the time or at a minimum during the round before the card is signed.

Just like D Johnson and his penalty that took him out of contention a few years back up at was it Whistling Straits in that sand impression they called a bunker?  I hated watching that over and over on TV...but at least the thing was before the card was signed.


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Dirtiest player in the game?



Dirtiest how?


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> The only question is...would they have utilized that for joe schmo?  I guess so.
> 
> .



If it were Joe Schmo, it would have been overlooked and it'd of been a non-issue.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> If it were Joe Schmo, it would have been overlooked and it'd of been a non-issue.



Okay

Just ask the 14 year old about the rules being overlooked for joe schmo's


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't think the 14 yr old youngest player ever to play was a "joe schmo" this weekend so they wouldn't have that pass on him way to many cameras on him.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2013)

Loved Tiger's interview.

He didn't even think of DQ'ing himself because he didn't break any rules.


Loved Nick Faldo's explanation....golfers of his era have to understand that the rules have changed.  What a shame...what a shame.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2013)

toyota4x4h said:


> I don't think the 14 yr old youngest player ever to play was a "joe schmo" this weekend so they wouldn't have that pass on him way to many cameras on him.



Yup...right next to that big stop watch they've got walking down the fairway on every hole.


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## TomC (Apr 13, 2013)

I’m not the biggest Tiger fan and I’ll admit in large part due to his past off course behavior and sometimes his on course behavior. However, I’ve played golf competitively at a pretty high level in my youth and if you set your personal feeling for the fellow aside and if you know the rules of golf you would know that the penalty WAS properly assessed.

Secondly, I can assure you that anytime you drop a ball you are ALWAYS trying to drop the ball (within the rules) to gain a competitive advantage.  So admitting to this means nothing. Anytime you have an option to drop the ball you are always looking for the best spot to drop. And if there is any area of golf where it is easy (even for Pro’s) to make a mistake in interpreting the rules it is with regards to dropping from a hazard.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2013)

TomC said:


> I’m not the biggest Tiger fan and I’ll admit in large part due to his past off course behavior and sometimes his on course behavior. However, I’ve played golf competitively at a pretty high level in my youth and if you set your personal feeling for the fellow aside and if you know the rules of golf you would know that the penalty WAS properly assessed.
> 
> Secondly, I can assure you that anytime you drop a ball you are ALWAYS trying to drop the ball (within the rules) to gain a competitive advantage.  So admitting to this means nothing. Anytime you have an option to drop the ball you are always looking for the best spot to drop. And if there is any area of golf where it is easy (even for Pro’s) to make a mistake in interpreting the rules it is with regards to dropping from a hazard.



One question...make that two?

What is the penalty for an illegal drop?

What's the penalty for an incorectly signed scorecard?

If you played competitive golf at a "pretty high level" you know the answer to these questions.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 13, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> Dirtiest how?



I was actually going to point out that Tiger could be innocent if a person did not go into it all looking down on him because of personal bias.  But congrats, I never got to get there.


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## rex upshaw (Apr 13, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Okay
> 
> Just ask the 14 year old about the rules being overlooked for joe schmo's



I meant overlooked, as in failed to notice, not ignored.  Had Feherty not pointed the possible penalty out, it probably wouldn't have been brought to anyone's attention.

The 14 year old was warned multiple times and his slow play affects others.


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## TomC (Apr 13, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> One question...make that two?
> 
> What is the penalty for an illegal drop?
> 
> ...



The issue was addressed prior to completion of the 18th hole by the rules committee. The rules committee deemed there to be no rules violation, had they deemed otherwise which they would have if the additional information would have been known, the rules officials would have approached and consulted him on the issue, prior to signing his card, deemed there to be a two stroke penalty making the issue of an incorrectly signed scorecard  moot, as signing of the improper score card would have not been allowed to happen in the first place. 

If you open your eyes and look at the entirety of the situation, consider all that was involved, it is obvious that the correct penalty (2 shots) was given.


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

Everyone hates on tiger for there own reasons but its pretty obvious to me the rules committee had a chance to rule the 2 shot penalty before he signed his card yet they deemed no penalty so therefore he didn't actually sign an improper scorecard. Take the hate for tiger away and you can see that.


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## TomC (Apr 13, 2013)

What is even more ironic in my mind is that all of these hypocrites on TV the day before were talking about how there should have been more leeway and consideration before giving the Chinese kid the penalty. Basically it was implied by all of these TV experts….said without saying so to speak that they should have looked the other way to a degree, in the best interest of golf, give the kid a little slack as it is so good for the game of golf for a 14 year old to make the cut in the Masters. The next day these same individuals are ripping Tiger and how one should never deviate from anything but a strict interpretation of the rules without consideration of all that was involved in the situation. Quite the double standard.

Again, I’m not a Tiger Fan boy, been pretty irritated at a lot of his on and off course behavior in the past but if you look at this situation in an unbiased manner, there is no question that the correct penalty was enforced. I can’t think of a situation other than this on a golf course where it would be easier to make an error in judgment and drop incorrectly. And some of you might want to go back and read some of the rules….they have changed. Rules are in place now to protect players from disqualification in situations such as this and instead give the proper penalty that should have been deemed originally. 

Lots of people just hate the guy and there is nothing that you can say that will change their mind about this incident. BUT.........If you are able to look at the entirety of the situation from an unbiased standpoint, set your personal distaste for the gentleman aside, you would see that it was handled properly.


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## toyota4x4h (Apr 13, 2013)

I played ajga up until I was 19 Tom and like you said earlier when your in a tourny you try and get a better lie on drops always. I mean the drop to me wasn't a big deal had he dropped closer heck it woulda rolled into the divot. I know I always tried to gain an advantage with a drop within the rules that is. I see no problem and that's all ima say about that lol. Lets go Freddy!!


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## Bitteroot (Apr 13, 2013)

When you get right down to it..... It sounds like he'd take a mulligan whenever he had the chance even in a practice session. His personal life tells me he has little integrity.... His public life now reinforces it!


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## Bitteroot (Apr 13, 2013)

That doesn't mean he may still be the greatest golfer of all time someday..... But don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining....


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## KyDawg (Apr 13, 2013)

Bobby Jones he aint.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 13, 2013)

Ditto......


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## Hooked On Quack (Apr 13, 2013)

DBM78 said:


> Should be DQ'D end of story. Most really golf fans and players feel this way if you don't read the rule book. No excuse he a pro if he had any questions he can get a offical.





lbzdually said:


> He admitted he dropped further back to gain an advantage.  He should DQ himself.  The only reason the Masters didn't do it is because he is Tiger Woods.





drhunter1 said:


> This^^^^
> 
> I'm taking bets that he won't. The mans character isn't there to allow him to do the right thing.





Bitteroot said:


> I'll trade my tiger for the last place on the cut.... He has no class.  Wish I'd never picked him.





Bitteroot said:


> That doesn't mean he may still be the greatest golfer of all time someday..... But don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining....






WOW !!!  And I thought I couldn't stand Julius . . .


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 14, 2013)

drhunter1 said:


> I'm taking bets that he won't. The mans character isn't there to allow him to do the right thing.



I talked to a buddy of mine this morning both played high school and jr golf. He said the same thing dq. I went on to tell him imagine if Tiger withdrew. Could you even imagine the media talking about what a display of sportsmanship he showed. I'm just as disappointed with the Masters rules committee I think they took the easy way out. Why is integrity so hard to find now days. 

And about the 14 year olds penalty. Does he deserve a penalty yes. If you are given multiple warnings for being behind and don't speed up/catch up I have no problem with that. The problem I do have is how the tour pros can play just as slow but know how to circumvent the rules with their caddies. I'm sure they could call this every weekend.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 14, 2013)

TomC said:


> What is even more ironic in my mind is that all of these hypocrites on TV the day before were talking about how there should have been more leeway and consideration before giving the Chinese kid the penalty. Basically it was implied by all of these TV experts….said without saying so to speak that they should have looked the other way to a degree, in the best interest of golf, give the kid a little slack as it is so good for the game of golf for a 14 year old to make the cut in the Masters. The next day these same individuals are ripping Tiger and how one should never deviate from anything but a strict interpretation of the rules without consideration of all that was involved in the situation. Quite the double standard.
> 
> Again, I’m not a Tiger Fan boy, been pretty irritated at a lot of his on and off course behavior in the past but if you look at this situation in an unbiased manner, there is no question that the correct penalty was enforced. I can’t think of a situation other than this on a golf course where it would be easier to make an error in judgment and drop incorrectly. And some of you might want to go back and read some of the rules….they have changed. Rules are in place now to protect players from disqualification in situations such as this and instead give the proper penalty that should have been deemed originally.
> 
> Lots of people just hate the guy and there is nothing that you can say that will change their mind about this incident. BUT.........If you are able to look at the entirety of the situation from an unbiased standpoint, set your personal distaste for the gentleman aside, you would see that it was handled properly.




Still can't answer the two questions I gave ya, huh?




toyota4x4h said:


> Everyone hates on tiger for there own reasons but its pretty obvious to me the rules committee had a chance to rule the 2 shot penalty before he signed his card yet they deemed no penalty so therefore he didn't actually sign an improper scorecard. Take the hate for tiger away and you can see that.



The rules committee did screw up.  They should've asked him before he signed his card.  But they didn't.  And it isn't their responsibility to know the rules for the players...but rather, to enforce the rules in place....or to answer their questions on course.



toyota4x4h said:


> I know I always tried to gain an advantage with a drop within the rules that is.



Within the rules...that is the key.

Heck...if you've played any sports, there's always going to be kids/people that cheat.  That's just human nature.

When the rules state you get a drop within two clubs of a spot, you take the best spot within that two clubs.  That's the rules....and there's people that use the rules to their advantage.  But that is the rules.


Here's my biggest issue with the whole thing.  I was okay with the decision of the rules committee.  After watching the explanation in Butler Cabin, I was fine with it.  Sounded fair....based on rule 33-7.  No 33-7, Tiger should've been DQ'd.  With 33-7, he's good to go.  I, like Nick Faldo, changed my opinion on the ruling because of this.


However, when Tiger talked about it after the round...he claimed he did nothing wrong.  He didn't break any rules (which he did and admitted the night before).  It is his arrogant attitude that I have a problem with.  It is as if he is above the rules....and he acts as if he is.  Amazing the difference between the attitude and maturity of the 14 YO in his post round interview of the penalty stroke and Tiger's attitude in the post round interview.

Tiger needs to admit he cheated (albeit because he didn't know the rule).  He needs to admit that had the rules committee approached him before the scorecard was signed, he'd have taken the 2 strokes...and that because of the 33-7, he was deemed to be not DQ'd, but only assessed 2 strokes.

That is where my problem is.  Decision has been made...can't change it now...but this is just another reason that I will never pick Tiger in this challenge or every pull for the guy (except in Ryder Cup as there, I'm not pulling for him, but for the US Team and our country).


----------



## KyDawg (Apr 14, 2013)

Who won the contest. I promised a ham to the winner.


----------



## tjl1388 (Apr 14, 2013)

Tiger is a tool but he didnt win so I'm happy. 

Adam Scott has one of the most beautiful golf swings on the planet. Wish they'd outlaw his putter but dang it if that swing is amazing. Congrats to the Aussie.


----------



## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 14, 2013)

In at -15 if I read the rules right.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Apr 15, 2013)

Congrats to the 1st Aussie to win the Masters, Adam Scott. 

Congrats to the 14-year-old Tianlang Guan for some fine tournament play & having no double bogeys & no 3 puts in his 4 rounds at the Masters.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2013)

Awesome finish....Glad to see a first time major champion and a first time Masters champion.

Glad that Tiger didn't win...as it would've cast a dark spell on the tourney and the club with the ruling and how it was handled.

Amazing to think Guan had no doubles and no 3 putts.  Out there...on a course with so much trouble lurking....with the greens as they are....simply amazing.


----------



## David Parker (Apr 15, 2013)

Can't keep a good Tiger down.  T-4 and he earned every bit of it.  Keep the hate fires going boys.  He chews that stuff up and spits out birdies.  


Sweet rule some have come up with here.  So when a club doesn't want a player to win, they can just call a stroke-penalty the day after the round so that the player unknowingly commits the DQ-able offense of signing an inaccurate scorecard everytime.  Brilliant yall!

Hats off to Adam.  It was too cold and wet for me to stay and watch the playoff.  So if anybody can actually play golf under the same conditions, they deserve the jacket.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Sweet rule some have come up with here.  So when a club doesn't want a player to win, they can just call a stroke-penalty the day after the round so that the player unknowingly commits the DQ-able offense of signing an inaccurate scorecard everytime.  Brilliant yall!



Really?  Make up a rule?  You either are ignorant to the rules of golf and what has happened in the past....or just a tiger lover with tinted glasses.

See what Camillo did a couple of years back.

http://www.pga.com/camilo-villegas-disqualified-kapalua-after-viewer-phones-in-rules-violation


Read here of a bunch of DQs...including some notable tournaments where players lost $$$ and other things.

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news00/disqualifications.html


----------



## David Parker (Apr 15, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Really?  Make up a rule?  You either are ignorant to the rules of golf and what has happened in the past....or just a tiger lover with tinted glasses.
> 
> See what Camillo did a couple of years back.
> 
> ...



Like Tiger needs his fans to wear tinted glasses.  He's the G.O.A.T.  Get use to it hater


----------



## Nitram4891 (Apr 15, 2013)

> Tier 1: Tiger Woods - 5
> 
> Tier 2: Keegan Bradley + 9
> 
> ...





Well that didn't go well...


----------



## huntindawg (Apr 15, 2013)

KyDawg said:


> Who won the contest. I promised a ham to the winner.





KrazieJacket95 said:


> In at -15 if I read the rules right.



Negative Ghostwriter, you're in at -8 since Henley didn't make the cut.

Looks like the winner is David Parker, thanks to Guan making the cut, he came in at -10.

If Doc's "no shot" chance had made the cut, he woulda won it.  Also, if the rules weren't stupid :ke:) and a player who made the cut couldn't score worse than a player who didn't, then Ol' Buckmaster woulda won.  Pettersson screwed him over, finishing at +16.

Congrats Mr. Parker!


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2013)

huntindawg said:


> Also, if the rules weren't stupid :ke:) and a player who made the cut couldn't score worse than a player who didn't, then Ol' Buckmaster woulda won.



I thought that that rule was in place....you couldn't be penalized for your player making the cut.  In other words, worst score for a guy making the cut is +7...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

huntindawg said:


> Negative Ghostwriter, you're in at -8 since Henley didn't make the cut.
> 
> Looks like the winner is David Parker, thanks to Guan making the cut, he came in at -10.
> 
> ...



Yeah I messed up the wording on that MC rule.  I meant for it to be +7 added to their score, not regardless of their score.  The "regardless" language was meant to be for the tier 5 player if he made the cut, but in editing, I messed it up.   That's what throwing it out there at the last second will get you...

But Mr. Parker didn't win.  KrazieJacket had:

Tiger -5
Kuchar -3
Day -7
Henley +7 since he MC
JMO -7 since he made the cut.

That's -15.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> I thought that that rule was in place....you couldn't be penalized for your player making the cut.  In other words, worst score for a guy making the cut is +7...


No.  If you make the cut, you get what you get over 4 days.

But typically the rule is that if you miss the cut, we take your score for two days and add 7.  Still, a guy blowing up and shooting a pair of 80's on the weekend could score worse than a guy who missed the cut at +5.

And all of you jacklegs saying Tiger should WD are crazy.  In any sport, you play until the whistle blows or until the rules say you can't play anymore.  Golf shouldn't be any different.  Yes he dropped further back to get an advantage, but only because he thought it was within the rules.  He was wrong about that, yes, but if he had known he was breaking a rule, he wouldn't have done it, for this very reason.  There are way too many eyes on him for him to ever get away with blatantly breaking the rules.

The fact that people can call in and report violations is also one of the most asinine things I've ever heard of in the sports world, as well.  It should be that once the scorecard is signed and you haven't received a penalty, then you got away with it.  If they care that much, put a rules official out there to watch every group, or even every player.

Curtis Strange has it right.  The rules of golf are enormous, vague, and sometimes ridiculous.  It is a game played outside on grass, dirt, pine straw, rocks, and in water.  Simplify the rules and allow for leeway for the imperfect outdoor conditions of every course.


----------



## huntindawg (Apr 15, 2013)

Hahahaha...

I was thinking OM, like Mark O'Meara...congrats Krazie, sorry for the mix up.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

others in red figures

David Parker  -10
rex  -7
hdm03  -6
myself and golffreak at -5
rockdawg  -3
ol buckmaster  -2
string music  -1

The Kevin Na "Hit it again" award is a three-way-tie going to Bitterroot, coon hunter, and rjcruiser at +16.

And of course, I get the Nicklaus award for being the only person to actually pick the winner.

Well done, gents.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Tiger needs to admit he%


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> others in red figures
> 
> David Parker  -10
> rex  -7
> ...



LOL...Mickelson let me down for sure 

Thanks for putting this together last minute...was a lot of fun!

Na and Bubba both had some fun on 12...funny that both took 10s...thing is, couldn't have had an easier day for hitting that tee shot on 12....with the rain...there was very very little wind...made for easier club selection on that hole.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Tiger needs to admit he cheated (albeit because he didn't know the rule).  He needs to admit that had the rules committee approached him before the scorecard was signed, he'd have taken the 2 strokes...and that because of the 33-7, he was deemed to be not DQ'd, but only assessed 2 strokes.
> 
> That is where my problem is.  Decision has been made...can't change it now...but this is just another reason that I will never pick Tiger in this challenge or every pull for the guy (except in Ryder Cup as there, I'm not pulling for him, but for the US Team and our country).



What more could he possibly say?  This is from his twitter account:



> "At hole #15, I took a drop that I thought was correct and in accordance with the rules. I was unaware at that time I had violated any rules.
> 
> I didn't know I had taken an incorrect drop prior to signing my scorecard. Subsequently, I met with the Masters Committee Saturday morning..
> 
> ...


----------



## formula1 (Apr 15, 2013)

*Re:*

My 12 year plays tournament golf. Before the penalty was every announced, he told me Tiger should take a 2 stroke penalty. And that is exactly what happened.

It is my thought Tiger took what he should take in the light that the violation was unknown at the time of the signature on the card by both Tiger and the rules committee.  Rule 33-7 accounts for that.  No Rule 33-7 and Tiger would be DQ'd. The committee has the decision.


----------



## tjl1388 (Apr 15, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Like Tiger needs his fans to wear tinted glasses.  He's the G.O.A.T.  Get use to it hater



Tiger is the opposite of Tebow.

Great at his craft but a ***** off the course.


As hard as this is to say I'd root for Tebow before I sent one bit of congratulatory verbiage toward Mr. Eldrick Tont Woods.

And no this has nothing to do with his womanizing ways....he was a piece of flying dog trash well before that, it just wasn't out in the open.

Is he prehaps the greatest to ever play? Maybe.
Would I care if he never won another major? Nope, I'd be elated.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> What more could he possibly say?  This is from his twitter account:



I don't do twitter  and...I was basing my statement off of his Saturday post round interview with Tom Rinaldi.  He stated he didn't do anything wrong....just sounded above the rules.  Had he stated what he had on Twitter to Rinaldi, I'd be fine with it.

Obviously, he's got someone else handling his Twitter account because it sounds much more polished and polite.



formula1 said:


> Rule 33-7 accounts for that.  No Rule 33-7 and Tiger would have to DQ himself.



Bingo


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> I don't do twitter  and...I was basing my statement off of his Saturday post round interview with Tom Rinaldi.  He stated he didn't do anything wrong....just sounded above the rules.  Had he stated what he had on Twitter to Rinaldi, I'd be fine with it.
> 
> Obviously, he's got someone else handling his Twitter account because it sounds much more polished and polite.
> 
> ...



I don't do twitter either but its quoted in a lot of articles on espn, cbs, etc.

And yes, I'm sure its an official statement typed up by an agent or spokesman, but that's all you ever get out of most of these guys, anyways.

And that was tweeted on Saturday at 4 PM, in the middle of his 3rd round.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 15, 2013)

and technically, since the Masters is not a PGA, USGA, or R&A event, they can do whatever they want to do as far as rules go.  They have their own rules committee which typically agrees with the established rules of golf by the big 3, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to do anything.


----------



## stringmusic (Apr 15, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> others in red figures
> 
> David Parker  -10
> rex  -7
> ...



Thanks a lot Keegan Bradley.


----------



## stringmusic (Apr 15, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> and technically, since the Masters is not a PGA, USGA, or R&A event, they can do whatever they want to do as far as rules go.  They have their own rules committee which typically agrees with the established rules of golf by the big 3, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to do anything.



Yep, and that's all that really matters in this situation.

If they want to give Tigger a 10 stroke handicap before the tournament begins, they can.


----------



## rex upshaw (Apr 15, 2013)

tjl1388 said:


> Tiger is the opposite of Tebow.
> 
> Great at his craft but a ***** off the course.
> 
> ...




Many of the best are as you mentioned, jerks off the course.

Michael Jordan comes to mind... and he was a womanizer too.  I wonder how he would be perceived in today's world of social media?


----------



## David Parker (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks Doc, had some laughs and gave it a run.  I tried to give Tiger a pep-talk after his drive on #2, which he hit errantly-left anyway.  He bogied that hole in the end, so I don't know what happened.  I really thought I got to him that time.


----------



## rex upshaw (Apr 15, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Thanks Doc, .



yep, thanks doc.


----------



## tjl1388 (Apr 15, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> Many of the best are as you mentioned, jerks off the course.
> 
> Michael Jordan comes to mind... and he was a womanizer too.  I wonder how he would be perceived in today's world of social media?



And a gambler to boot....


----------



## GAGE (Apr 15, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> And all of you jacklegs saying Tiger should WD are crazy.  In any sport, you play until the whistle blows or until the rules say you can't play anymore.  Golf shouldn't be any different.  Yes he dropped further back to get an advantage, but only because he thought it was within the rules.  He was wrong about that, yes, but if he had known he was breaking a rule, he wouldn't have done it, for this very reason.  There are way too many eyes on him for him to ever get away with blatantly breaking the rules.
> 
> The fact that people can call in and report violations is also one of the most asinine things I've ever heard of in the sports world, as well.  It should be that once the scorecard is signed and you haven't received a penalty, then you got away with it.  If they care that much, put a rules official out there to watch every group, or even every player.
> 
> Curtis Strange has it right.  The rules of golf are enormous, vague, and sometimes ridiculous.  It is a game played outside on grass, dirt, pine straw, rocks, and in water.  Simplify the rules and allow for leeway for the imperfect outdoor conditions of every course.



Great post Doc!


----------



## drhunter1 (Apr 15, 2013)

GAGE said:


> Great post Doc!



No it's not a great post. It's an incorrect post by a "jackleg" who obviously worships the ground Tiger walks on and sees no flaws in him whatsoever.

Golf is, if nothing else, a game of honor. It is a game where participants call penalties on themselves and they do so to keep the integrity of the game above the indvidual. Tiger admitted he incorrectly dropped the ball to gain an advantage and it doesn't matter that he didn't know that it was an illegal drop or not. Once he found out that it was an illegal drop and signed the card incorrectly he should have immediately withdrawn, but he has no honor and therefore didn't withdraw.

Imagine if this had not been tiger woods but a no name player that nobody has ever heard of before just making his first appearance at the Masters. Do you think he would have been shown the same grace. I doubt the rules officials would have blinked before showing him the trunk of his rental car.

Anyone who defends him is showing an inordinate amount of Tiger worship. Tiger is the greatest player of this current generation but what he lacks is integrity and so do the Masters officials for letting him off the hook and IMO the Masters (the greatest golf event on the planet) has sustained a black eye it can never recover from by allowing favoritism cloud their judgement. The only thing that could have been worse is if Tiger came back and won.


----------



## KyDawg (Apr 15, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Thanks Doc, had some laughs and gave it a run.  I tried to give Tiger a pep-talk after his drive on #2, which he hit errantly-left anyway.  He bogied that hole in the end, so I don't know what happened.  I really thought I got to him that time.



Mr David I promised a Ky ham to the winner and you are it. PM me your info and I will get it to you.


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 15, 2013)

drhunter1 said:


> No it's not a great post. It's an incorrect post by a "jackleg" who obviously worships the ground Tiger walks on and sees no flaws in him whatsoever.
> 
> Golf is, if nothing else, a game of honor. It is a game where participants call penalties on themselves and they do so to keep the integrity of the game above the indvidual. Tiger admitted he incorrectly dropped the ball to gain an advantage and it doesn't matter that he didn't know that it was an illegal drop or not. Once he found out that it was an illegal drop and signed the card incorrectly he should have immediately withdrawn, but he has no honor and therefore didn't withdraw.
> 
> ...



My thoughts also. This will haunt Tiger the rest of his career. If you really want to know if Tiger did anything wrong ask yourself what would Jack or Arnold done. Like I said earlier very disappointed the Masters on how they handled this. Its a sad day for a club founded by somebody with so much honor. 

And everybody who says 33-7 covers Tiger it doesn't. Look it up and read it.  Tiger didn't ground his club in a hazard. His ball didn't move at address. He dropped his ball and played from the wrong spot didn't take a penalty. Then turned in a incorrect scorecard. If he had a question he could of asked for a offical end of story. He is a professional he should know.


----------



## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 16, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> Many of the best are as you mentioned, jerks off the course.
> 
> Michael Jordan comes to mind... and he was a womanizer too.  I wonder how he would be perceived in today's world of social media?



Just to add a bit towards your point.  Tiger isn't the only pro golfer to ever be a womanizer.   One of the three guys that opened the tournament had quite the reputation for that long before Tiger was ever thought of.  Another of the three had a very long rep as being a (don't know how to say it here) booger hole in person before he matured.  I am certainly not a Tiger Woods fanboy but I realize that I watch these tournaments to see the guys play golf. 
 I played junior tournaments and in high school...that is not a very high accomplishment nor is it worthy of being able to have a say in Tigers penalty.  I will say that I don't feel Augusta National cowers to anyone.  If they thought he was in the wrong they would have escorted him off the property even if he is the #1 player in the world.


----------



## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 16, 2013)

KyDawg said:


> Mr David I promised a Ky ham to the winner and you are it. PM me your info and I will get it to you.



I believe I won per the rules.  If that is the case I would like for you to send it to the Masonic Children's home in Macon, Ga.  I will get in touch with them tomorrow to be sure they will receive it.  After that I will provide you with an address as well as a gift back to you for your kind donation.


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 16, 2013)

This is from the usga website 33-7/4.5

This revision to Decision 33-7/4.5 addresses the situation where a player is not aware he has breached a Rule because of facts that he did not know and could not reasonably have discovered prior to returning his score card. Under this revised decision and at the discretion of the Committee, the player still receives the penalty associated with the breach of the underlying Rule, but is not disqualified.
In revising the decision, The R&A and the USGA confirm that the disqualification penalty still applies for score card breaches that arise from ignorance of the Rules of Golf. As such, this decision reinforces that it is still the responsibility of the player to know the Rules, while recognizing that there may be some rare situations where it is reasonable that a player is unaware of the factual circumstances of a breach.
This revision to Decision 33-7/4.5 is effective immediately.
“


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 16, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> I believe I won per the rules.  If that is the case I would like for you to send it to the Masonic Children's home in Macon, Ga.  I will get in touch with them tomorrow to be sure they will receive it.  After that I will provide you with an address as well as a gift back to you for your kind donation.



Awesome


That's what I love about this forum.  We can  and  and ....but at the end of the day, the majority of us are good people who want to help others.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 16, 2013)

drhunter1 said:


> No it's not a great post. It's an incorrect post by a "jackleg" who obviously worships the ground Tiger walks on and sees no flaws in him whatsoever.
> 
> Golf is, if nothing else, a game of honor. It is a game where participants call penalties on themselves and they do so to keep the integrity of the game above the indvidual. Tiger admitted he incorrectly dropped the ball to gain an advantage and it doesn't matter that he didn't know that it was an illegal drop or not. Once he found out that it was an illegal drop and signed the card incorrectly he should have immediately withdrawn, but he has no honor and therefore didn't withdraw.
> 
> ...



I worship no man.

And yes, I believe he would have received the same grace.  If Golf is a game of honor then I have to take Fred Ridley's word that any other player would have been treated the same.  I mean, he's a member of Augusta National and chair of the Rules Committee, so he has to be honorable, right?

In reality, golf is, and has always been, a sport dominated by drunks, gamblers, and womanizers.  Hang around a country club for awhile.  Go work at one.  You'll know what I mean very quickly.


----------



## brownceluse (Apr 16, 2013)

What is the masters you all are speaking of? Sounds like fun!


----------



## David Parker (Apr 16, 2013)

KyDawg said:


> Mr David I promised a Ky ham to the winner and you are it. PM me your info and I will get it to you.



Get one good and fat for next year.  I'm taking Krazie to school come 2014.  Great gesture btw!!!


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 16, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Go work at one.  You'll know what I mean very quickly.



Or watch CaddyShack


----------



## David Parker (Apr 16, 2013)

Just keeping it fair and balanced.
your call:








http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 16, 2013)

FAIL! Try again that's photo shopped. There had to be a cameraman behind him for the second shot. Or they would of not had it on film.


----------



## gacowboy (Apr 17, 2013)

Congrats Krazie Jacket !
This thread was about a contest right?


----------



## tjl1388 (Apr 17, 2013)

DBM78 said:


> FAIL! Try again that's photo shopped. There had to be a cameraman behind him for the second shot. Or they would of not had it on film.



Not photoshopped.


----------



## rex upshaw (Apr 17, 2013)

those photos are legit.  so much for the "tiger's a cheater (in golf)" talk.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 17, 2013)

the photos are legit, but the one on the right seems to not be zoomed quite as much.  Tiger on the left is bigger than Tiger on the right.

It is not a question of whether he dropped farther back or not.  He admitted he did.  The question is whether or not he knew he was breaking the rule and that's something we won't ever really know.

Most people around thought that he could drop as far back as he wanted, including the announcers.  They were both talking about him doing just that, so its not a stretch to think he did it purposefully breaking the rules.

Doesn't mean he wasn't still wrong.  It is his responsibility to know the rules or consult with a rules official.


----------



## KrazieJacket95 (Apr 17, 2013)

gacowboy said:


> Congrats Krazie Jacket !
> This thread was about a contest right?



Thanks man.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 17, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> It is not a question of whether he dropped farther back or not.  He admitted he did.  The question is whether or not he knew he was breaking the rule and that's something we won't ever really know.
> 
> Doesn't mean he wasn't still wrong.  It is his responsibility to know the rules or consult with a rules official.



Bingo.

But I don't think it is a question whether or not he did it on purpose.

I'm a hater...and I don't think he did it on purpose.  I think it was an honest mistake.  Golfers of all kind have been known to make honest mistakes.

What I have a problem with is this new rule 33-7.  Just seems a bit anti-golf....but then again, this instance is why they brought it in.  Because of it, I agree with the decision/penalty handed down.  What I don't like is the way Tiger handled it in his post 3rd round interview.  Handled it in typical Tiger fashion....so, I guess I'm really not surprised.


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## David Parker (Apr 17, 2013)

"can you be penalized for intending to violate a rule even if you didn't actually violate it? "

This is the real conundrum.  

Ready for the RBC in HHI?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> "can you be penalized for intending to violate a rule even if you didn't actually violate it? "





Watch the CBS footage from the camera guy behind Tiger the 1st and second shot.

It is obvious that Tiger dropped about 2 club lengths back from his original divot.  Had the ruling said something about within two clubs of the original shot no closer to the hole...he'd be good.  But it doesn't.  He took an illegal drop.  Coverage shows it (Masters rules committee was going to overlook it as the camera angle makes it difficult to judge...and they were taking the honor system from Tiger dropping close to the original shot).  However, he incriminated himself.  He said he dropped it two yards back.  At that point, the rules committee has to enforce the rules.


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## David Parker (Apr 17, 2013)

I watched it live and remember it well and I sincerely believed the announcer, whether it was Ferrehty or Vern or whoever, when they said "okay here is the divot from his original shot....and here is the second shot..."  I assume they were sure, but then again 93 other golfers played through several times  up to this point.  Plus, to me it looked more like the patch of grass that comes from a divot rather than the actual divot.  The one and only constant here is that nothing is certain, except some folks appreciate Tiger's play and some don't.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> except some folks appreciate Tiger's play and some don't.



I appreciate his play.  He is very good.  I just can't cheer for him because I look at more than just a persons ability to play their sport.  I understand others don't.  That's fine...we're all entitled to our own opinion.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 17, 2013)

To me it really is this.... He dropped to improve his oportunity and keep from hitting the stick again...
I've played no where near the golf that he has and probably not as much as many on here. I guarentee that if we are playing with my betting buddies.. and I take a drop to better my chances I'm going to get called on it.  Further more.. I wouldn't take a drop until they were Ok with my attempt.  I know that If I'm trying to "improve" my situation, which is what Tiger said.. not me.. then I am in the wrong.  The ONLY time I know of that you can drop to improve is when you are on a yardage marker or sprinkler head, cart path, or similar marked off hazard that is not in play.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think a Pro would know better.  I've seen the pics as well and I don't believe it was 2 yards...but an intentional improvement no matter what the distance is a problem for me.   And remember I PICKED THE GUY!


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Bitteroot said:


> To me it really is this.... He dropped to improve his oportunity and keep from hitting the stick again...
> I've played no where near the golf that he has and probably not as much as many on here. I guarentee that if we are playing with my betting buddies.. and I take a drop to better my chances I'm going to get called on it.  Further more.. I wouldn't take a drop until they were Ok with my attempt.  I know that If I'm trying to "improve" my situation, which is what Tiger said.. not me.. then I am in the wrong.  The ONLY time I know of that you can drop to improve is when you are on a yardage marker or sprinkler head, cart path, or similar marked off hazard that is not in play.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think a Pro would know better.  I've seen the pics as well and I don't believe it was 2 yards...but an intentional improvement no matter what the distance is a problem for me.   And remember I PICKED THE GUY!



But there are instances where the rules allow you to drop as far back as you want, the reason being that a farther shot at a known distance IS SOMETIMES AN IMPROVEMENT over a closer one.  So the word "improve" can mean farther back.

Also, the rules allow a person, in some instances to drop in the fairway even when the last grass their ball touched was the rough.  In the second round I believe, I forget the hole, but a player drove his ball into the edge of the rough and then onto a steel valve cover.  The rules allowed him to drop a club length away, no closer to the hole, but he was able to drop onto the fairway instead of the rough.

So both of those are instances of dropping to improve that are allowed.  One is a hazard and one is man-made.

And unless one of your buddies is a real knowledgeable guy on the rules or carries a rule book, you all would have probably thought what Tiger did was within the rules.  I did and it sounded like the announcers did.  Tiger and his caddy both did.

I think it was an easy mistake to make.  They confused two rules and melded them into one.


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## David Parker (Apr 17, 2013)

The missed-point is that he didn't hit a poor shot.  The shot was pretty good.  The drop area and options are designed for shots that are typically off the mark.  Look at the game and forget officiating.  He plays the game with integrity.  That's enough, but even further, he's the greatest golfer I'll ever watch play.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Look at the game and forget officiating.



That's what I do when I play....that's why my handicap is 3.

rules are rules are rules.  you forget the rules and you change the game.


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## DBM78 (Apr 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> The missed-point is that he didn't hit a poor shot.  The shot was pretty good.  The drop area and options are designed for shots that are typically off the mark.  Look at the game and forget officiating.  He plays the game with integrity.  That's enough, but even further, he's the greatest golfer I'll ever watch play.



Just must not watch much golf. Tiger slams clubs and swears almost every tournament he plays.


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## Bitteroot (Apr 17, 2013)

DBM78 said:


> Just must not watch much golf. Tiger slams clubs and swears almost every tournament he plays.



This..... I have no respect for club chunkers.....keep your composure... It is a game!


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## Nitram4891 (Apr 17, 2013)

Bitteroot said:


> This..... I have no respect for club chunkers.....keep your composure... It is a game!



It's a game for me and you, it's a job for these guys.  Regardless...I agree, keep your composure but they are under a little bit more pressure than we are.


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## David Parker (Apr 18, 2013)

yall win.  I watch little golf and have no clues .  Maybe next year's Master's Challenge yall can at least give me something to compete against though.  Jez sayin.

 and


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 18, 2013)

David Parker said:


> yall win.  I watch little golf and have no clues .  Maybe next year's Master's Challenge yall can at least give me something to compete against though.  Jez sayin.



you didn't win...


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## DBM78 (Apr 18, 2013)

Another view from behind the 3rd and 5th shots.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> you didn't win...



Doh.


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## David Parker (Apr 19, 2013)

I didn't say I won, but since you mention it.  The way I read Doc's clarification, had the rules been applied as they had been in the past, I would have won b/c all 4 of my pros and my amateur made the cut, whereas Krazie's pro who didn't make the cut, didn't have their score averaged in.  (I think technically, Krazie would have been much further down the ranks).  No matter, my point was directed at the comment about not watching alot of golf.  Although I came in second due to the mis-wording by Doc, I did beat all the other competitors, who apparenlty watch way more golf than me, hence a big honkin ...


wait for it....


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## David Parker (Apr 19, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Doh.



you are adorable


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## David Parker (Apr 19, 2013)

DBM78 said:


> Another view from behind the 3rd and 5th shots.



looks like a patch of grass that came from a divot to me.  

Besides, what does it matter now?


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## DBM78 (Apr 19, 2013)

David Parker said:


> I didn't say I won, but since you mention it.  The way I read Doc's clarification, had the rules been applied as they had been in the past, I would have won b/c all 4 of my pros and my amateur made the cut, whereas Krazie's pro who didn't make the cut, didn't have their score averaged in.  (I think technically, Krazie would have been much further down the ranks).  No matter, my point was directed at the comment about not watching alot of golf.  Although I came in second due to the mis-wording by Doc, I did beat all the other competitors, who apparenlty watch way more golf than me, hence a big honkin ...
> 
> 
> wait for it....



Second stinks. And this is coming from a guy who won this few years ago. Please tell us how you picked Gaun a player from China that %99 never heard of?


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## David Parker (Apr 19, 2013)

I live in Augusta and keep my eyes/ears open.  You know the end of Casino, when DeNiro is describing how he ended up?  I guess that's kind of me.  I know how to pick winners.  Plus he's 14 years old and from China and stood out more than the other longshots.  Add some luck and voila!


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2013)

David Parker said:


> you are adorable



thanks


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## stringmusic (Apr 7, 2014)

We doin' the Masters challenge again?


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## Da Possum (Apr 7, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> We doin' the Masters challenge again?



I thought you were in charge of it?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Apr 7, 2014)

I'm just too busy to run the scoring this year.


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