# What do you want?



## Big John (Jul 30, 2013)

Hello, there has been lots of talk about the low turnouts this year on the 3D ranges in Georgia.
So I ask. You as the shooter, what is it you want at a 3D shoot? I know I know this is a wide open question. So I will help get the mind moving. Is it the setup? Clean lanes, short & long targets. Is it the location? You can find on a map. Is it the type of targets? Rinehart, McKenzie, or R&W. Is it the classes? To many, not enough, or missing a class you would like. Is it the Prize? Trophy vs. Cash.  Is it the dates? Lots of shoots overlap, or something. I could go on & on but you get what I’m looking for. I do not run a club, so this is for the benefit to the ones that do. 

As most of you know I do Georgia Archery Week in Review video every week. I have seen clubs that have had great numbers compared to others. I would hope we could get it back to the way it was years ago, 200+ shooters was a normal turnout. I want this sport as a whole to grow.

So reply below. I have some ideas that I think would help, but I will share them at a later time. I want to hear from you the shooter. WHAT DO YOU WANT?


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## young gunna (Jul 30, 2013)

Bring back the triple crown......


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## GaBuckSlammer (Jul 30, 2013)

Get clubs to work together in a organization, maybe like the MEGA Triple Crown ( I wasnt shooting 3D then), or like the BHA in Alabama where the sport is statewide with different regions. Just a thought.

Weather has been iffy on a lot of weekends this season compared to the past few years causing some low turnouts I am sure.

For me I like variety. Short targets, long targets, midrange, uphill, and downhill. The courses need to vary from month to month as well and not be set in the same lanes. 

ASA rules and class maximum distances should apply to the shoots also since thats what the majority of shooters, and I mean tournament guys and not hunters, here in the state prepare for.


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## olinprice (Jul 30, 2013)

Yeah im getting that response from my post getting clubs togeather i dont think the target type is that big of a deal as long as the scoring rings are in the correct positition But buy what your club can afford if you cant afford Mckenzies, buy R&W the loyal shooters to your club wont care, open shooters want open lanes, hunters want more realistic shots not so long, guess clubs need to look at who is showing up on a constant basis and gear to those, but still work with the others. Kids we got to get them to these shoots, they are the future of the sport. Open and money classes are great but keep in mind the club only gets half of the money they pay in so unless you have a lot of open or money class shooters is it worth it. Prizes buy what you can afford i say. If your clubs budget calls for plaques buy them if it calls for trophys buy them if you can only afford ribbons buy them. But give the kids something even if they dont shoot so good. I came to realize a long time ago you can only please half the people half the time and you will never please all the people all the time.


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## bowgirl (Jul 30, 2013)

We want the new or repaired targets that we are supposed to be paying for with the extra $5 per shoot that was added in this year!  Targets are in terrible condition!  Also change the women's known $ class back to a trophy class, you will probably see more participants!


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## 450yardbuck (Jul 30, 2013)

I shoot every weekend somewhere but will only shoot McKenzie targets unless I have nowhere else to go.  I doesn't help me to look at another brand of target for ASA events. I know McKenzie targets are expensive but the hard core shooters will drive a long way to shoot real targets.  Also mix up the yardages, I know of one club in my area that drove away a lot of shooters because every shoot all the targets were between 38-50 yards.  When people are shooting low scores and missing targets they don't have any fun and don't want to participate.  But I think most clubs in the North Ga circuit do very well with around 100 shooters or so per shoot.  I think some of it may be location.


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## BowanaLee (Jul 30, 2013)

No sand baggers in the novice class. Thats where we get the new blood. At the club level one or two wins and you should have to move up. At the ASA shoots you play by their rules.


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## BOTTEMLINE (Jul 30, 2013)

*Smoke*

Im with Bowanna if you win your class more than once move up thats one reason you dont have many money shooters ..The new shooters want  a fair chance.


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## Hunter922 (Jul 30, 2013)

As far as getting new 3D archers involved. This was our first year shooting 3D. I have bow hunted for 25 years many of those bow only and My son is 12 and said he wanted to shoot so we made it happen. Last year was his first year hunting with a bow and he got tore up on the stand twice with 125-130 class deer coming into range and could not calm down enough to make the shots. My thinking was have him shoot around people he didn't know and maybe he could shake some of the nerves. In roughly 25 shoots we shot with 4-5 people he had never met. We asked people to join us and shoot with us but had very few takers. We shot as a 2Some on all but 3 shoots. Everyone likes shooting with there buddies but it becomes less inviting to the new Shooters without acceptance or interaction. Now I never felt like we were not welcome at all but we both really enjoyed the state Shoot where he had to shoot with archers he didn't know. I think more peer group or random group shoots would be fun but hey we are new at 3D so this is likely a terrible idea.


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## olinprice (Jul 30, 2013)

Hey hunter922 its an idea good or bad we want to hear it so dont down yourself about having an idea


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## BobbyNSian03 (Jul 30, 2013)

We just started shooting this year, and have thoroughly enjoyed every course, but walked away with both goods and no so goods, but never had a bad time. I agree with GABuckSlammer, we like the courses to be a good mix, and different each time.
 I prefer more hunting set ups, but that is what August is primarily, but maybe a hunter shoot 1 or 2 times during the regular 3d season may get more people out. Also charity shoots, personally I like these, most people will donate to a good cause at least 1 time!!


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## Miss Ginger (Jul 30, 2013)

When Myself, Steve Pittman, and Robert Hlsman created the MEGA  Triple Crown, our goal was to offer the middle Georgia region a little more excitement and variety above just traveling from one weekend shoot to another. 
It was another layer on top of the already established typical  3-D weekend tournament format. 
Something outside the box..... Yet not detracting from
What everyone wants....... Local 3-D activity that prepares us for the national tournament experience .......


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## goob (Jul 30, 2013)

*yup*

I wish there was a better way to weed out cheaters on church shoots. I have seen so much cheating that when me and mine go to a shoot, we remember that we are just shooting against others in our group or groups only, and don't expect to beat that honest man that scored 12's on 18 out of 20 targets or whatever. And that's ME witnessing it. Happened at one of the big shoots we were at last season, watched a shooter in the group ahead of us score not so good and even miss, but his name was called at the end of the shoot to get his first place award in hunter class. If he can live with it then I guess I can too.


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## DanielHunter (Jul 31, 2013)

I'm with Corey on this bring back the triple crown. 
Make going to shoot every weekend interesting and more of a purpose...
Also don't make two shoots that are good shoots and that are close to each other on the same day... 
And maybe add some kinda side pot or some kinda other challenge/competition to the shoot.


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## Taylor Co. (Jul 31, 2013)

Big John, I want premium aged steaks and shrimpand lots of variance in yardage. I also want scantily clad women catering to the shooters. Just kidding dude.


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## watermedic (Jul 31, 2013)

And a beer tent at the turn and target 21!!


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## bowman77 (Jul 31, 2013)

I would say the weather played a big part this year. I haven't really shot much lately but I would say a good set of rule would be the most important, ASA as a good set and all kinda classes. The big thing would be if you have them stand by them no matter what. JMO


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## adstokes72 (Jul 31, 2013)

I think it should be strictly inforced that there should be more than 2 shooters in a group.  If 2 people show up they should have to wait until someone else can shoot with them. And if no one else shows up than who ever is hosting the shoot should have to go with them. There have been shoots where there have be only 2 people shooting and they had scores better than the pro shooters.


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## olinprice (Jul 31, 2013)

watermedic said:


> And a beer tent at the turn and target 21!!



May have to check into that lol


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## jt12 (Jul 31, 2013)

If most clubs could have some type of format that produced a shooter of the year or champion for each class. Then at the end of the year it would be fun to have each clubs champions ( that would repersent the club) to compete to see who has the best club shooters.


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## EagleEye3D (Jul 31, 2013)

jt12 said:


> If most clubs could have some type of format that produced a shooter of the year or champion for each class. Then at the end of the year it would be fun to have each clubs champions ( that would repersent the club) to compete to see who has the best club shooters.



Now that sounds like a good idea!


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## BlackArcher (Aug 1, 2013)

How to get new shooters to participate in the 3D events.  How to ensure that the shooter will visit and participated again.  
Their is no magic formula....  Listen to the shooters address their concerns.

But I know one thing... busting your b to set targets,  putting it on gon and waiting for shooters to show up, is not the magic formula... 
but here are a few other ideas...
enforce the rules...
 set decent targets for the new comers.... 
because veterans may complain but we will just about shoot any distance and brag about hitting a 12 judging a target at 57 yards..  

I really don't know why we have this debate every year.. 
usually by the time we get through with this forum they will be so much excuses used it would be pointless...

Targets getting shot out (the purpose of the targets is to shoot the crap out the 12) 
The targets are expensive...( well find creative ways to raise the cash ) 
clubs known for allowing shooters competing, to  shoot by them selves on in Groups of two... (enforce the rules to retain integrity) 
-that will definitely encourage more shooters...

*Most importantly get the scores up right away... (Monday... is too late if we shot on saturday...)*


They are a lot of good ideas on top of Ideas... These ideas can be broken down into a few categories. For Example...


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## oldgeez (Aug 1, 2013)

offer mulligans..extra money or a bonus target (40 yd tree frog, lol)


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## Big John (Aug 2, 2013)

Spanka you are on it dawg-gone-it. I posted this to see what the shooters wanted... Not club owners... The shooters is what it is about for sure... Score & finding them has been something that needs work... As for clubs working together... I would love to see a Sate wide Triple Crown type of thing.... Shooter Of the Year.. And more...Mulligans could be fun!!! Group shooters 3 or more.. I think everyone knows what 3D targets cost these days.. As for the scantily clad women catering to the shooters, & Beer tents Hmm...

The one thing I will say to the clubs.. If you are doing it for the money...STOP NOW... There is no money to be made...With Upkeep,& time every shoot will cost you. If you are doing in to grow the sport.. Have fun... Then you are on the right track..


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## Silver Mallard (Aug 2, 2013)

Within the past few years I've noticed clubs moving to Sunday. This doesn't work for alot of people due to Church and other family functions. I think this is another reason why we have seen a drop in attendance.


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## bamaboy (Aug 2, 2013)

Clean Lanes, variety of shots,long mixed with short,heck even throw in a few 5-10 yard shots on some of the Novice or Hunter stakes. Not saying do it at every shoot just sometimes. I have met folks that have no clue how to shoot a 5 or 10 yard shot with their bow,do not know which pin to use,make the shoots fun but make them a fun learning experience for the newcomers. I always try to volunteer to shoot with newbies to help them but also make it fun for them, that way they want to come back and shoot again which ever club it is.


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## BlackArcher (Aug 2, 2013)

A mega shoot is an aspiring 3D greatness Idea... maybe it could be the start of a HUGE Georgia 3D  thing-a-ma-Gig..  
maybe have a board of directors lay out rules for all the clubs... break them up into regions...  
Same targets... Same rules... different venues... (wait hold on ASA?  NO! Well maybe !! )
The governing body need to play a more active role in the enforcing and creating rules... 

By the time this revolution happens I maybe too old to hold the bow  up..  
but you'll find me telling stories about winning a belt buckle... 
and animating the blind squirrel who got  judged at 43 yards  
and caught an arrow through his back and out his butt... 

So can we MEGA 2014 and quit just talking about it.... 
Ya'll got 4-5 mos to get it together...

What the shooters want is  a MEGA!!


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## jt12 (Aug 2, 2013)

Silver Mallard said:


> Within the past few years I've noticed clubs moving to Sunday. This doesn't work for alot of people due to Church and other family functions. I think this is another reason why we have seen a drop in attendance.



I understand about church but like myself a lot of people have to work on Saturday. If you live within a hours drive of a range you can go to church and still make the cut off.


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## dgmeadows (Aug 2, 2013)

Not what I want, but something that may matter for getting new folks involved, & believe it or not, I am going to propose something contrary to ASA rules....

A no speed limit novice class. We "serious" shooters accept the speed limit as an equalizer, but the guy with only one bow might come out and be disappointed that he cannot compete & only shoot for fun.  I have been at the sign in table where this happened more than a couple times.

Note I said novice class.  The more serious shooters should not be sandbagging in such a class.  Most guys, once hooked, generally will want to shoot ASA classes.  And I am not leaving women out, but I don't really think there are many women not shooting simply because their bow exceeds the speed limit.


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## KillZone (Aug 2, 2013)

BlackArcher said:


> A mega shoot is an aspiring 3D greatness Idea... maybe it could be the start of a HUGE Georgia 3D  thing-a-ma-Gig..
> maybe have a board of directors lay out rules for all the clubs... break them up into regions...
> Same targets... Same rules... different venues... (wait hold on ASA?  NO! Well maybe !! )
> The governing body need to play a more active role in the enforcing and creating rules...
> ...


You can count me in on something like that. Nice one spank


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## KillZone (Aug 2, 2013)

bamaboy said:


> Clean Lanes, variety of shots,long mixed with short,heck even throw in a few 5-10 yard shots on some of the Novice or Hunter stakes. Not saying do it at every shoot just sometimes. I have met folks that have no clue how to shoot a 5 or 10 yard shot with their bow,do not know which pin to use,make the shoots fun but make them a fun learning experience for the newcomers. I always try to volunteer to shoot with newbies to help them but also make it fun for them, that way they want to come back and shoot again which ever club it is.



Nice one Bama. 
Always like to help someone out, you know that!!!!


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## olinprice (Aug 2, 2013)

Good idea dgmeadows may try that in an unlimited hunter also i have talked to several bow hunters that say their bow is too fast according to the asa rule


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## bamaboy (Aug 4, 2013)

KillZone said:


> Nice one Bama.
> Always like to help someone out, you know that!!!!



KillZone,you know I actually learned a lot from you and others shooting with you and I have tried to carry that forward. Maybe just maybe one day someone will win their class and have shot with me that day. I think growing archery and growing 3-D is all in the newcomers being helped in a positive manner. KillZone Thank You for the help and the support!


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## KillZone (Aug 4, 2013)

Thanx Bama!


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## BOTTEMLINE (Aug 4, 2013)

*Smoke*

Triple crown sounds great l find myself not giving a 100 percent shooting and just trying different setups cause even if you win its just pocket change l think we should have a side pot for some or all who want to compete maybe like $5 extra at every shoot thats for the triple crown and at the end the winner collects ..And for the new shooters l would be glad to have you in our group just to show how we score and what its all about .The triple crown was not around when l started back shooting so im not sure of how its coordinated ..Also if youre dominating your class move up it will only make you better and others will respect you for that..Make it happen..


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## Big John (Aug 6, 2013)

Ok.. Lots of good stuff... So who wants to be on the board? Who wants to help with rules, classes, & stuff... Everyone wants to shoot, have fun, & win but who wants to help keep up with everything?... The MEGA had sponsors & that helped make for a large Payday.. Who wants to get sponsors? There is a lot of work that goes into something like this (just ask the ones that ran the MEGA).
It's easier said then done... If you want this to happen then someone or ones will have to help. So if and only if you are willing to help for a full year... then IM me.. I will put together a list of names.   As for the clubs... keeping up with who, what, when, & cash... I'm not sure if they want to.. With clubs with different rules and classes.. Like I have said before... I have some Ideas.. But this can not be done by just one person.. It will take a team.


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## jt12 (Aug 6, 2013)

I'd be willing to help anyway I could if someone would start the ball rolling.


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## olinprice (Aug 6, 2013)

Im with you big john there is alot of complaining and wanting but no helping. Our biggest complaint at Rocky Comfort was target condition 2nd was trashy lanes. We cant buy new mids with no one showing up to shoot. Scheduling and weather has been a factor. Lanes will not be a factor anymore. As far as classes we try to keep them to a minimum so we dont have to buy a truck load of trophies but we have the basics open mens, open womens, mens, womens, youth, traditional, cubs. We added an open crossbow to our last shoot of the year to see if we have any takers the some of the hunting community is going crossbow.


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## olinprice (Aug 6, 2013)

Maybe we should have a southeastern meeting on the scheduling thing or something. Before next 3d season.


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## jt12 (Aug 6, 2013)

olinprice said:


> Maybe we should have a southeastern meeting on the scheduling thing or something. Before next 3d season.



That's a great idea I think I heard it mention before. I live about 30 mins from Louisville and would be more than glad to help out anyway I can. PM me and I'll give you my contact info.


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## olinprice (Aug 6, 2013)

Im for it i know destiny farm and high lonesome, Culpepper outdoors has also said just let him know when so i think it will work.


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## Big John (Aug 8, 2013)

I have not got any IMs yet so....


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## bassfishga (Aug 8, 2013)

This is my first year shooting 3D. I have only been shooting a bow a few years. So, I am kinda new at this. I had someone who taught me how to shoot a bow introduce me to 3D. I can say I really have enjoyed it and am already looking forward to next year. 

I did miss a few shoots this year because the weather was up in the air. 

One other thing we do as a family is this. My daughter does barrel racing in a state club. It keeps us coming back to every event because of her points standings for the year. We can't miss out on her not running a points show. She wants to be in the top so she can qualify for the state event where many state clubs compete. She wants to stay on top in points for the end of the year awards. They are not big awards and payouts but it is the achievement that matters the most.

Just a thought, like top shooters of the year, bragging rights if nothing else. Most of these clubs seem to end with a Hunters shoot at end of season so recognize top shooters at that event?


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## dgmeadows (Aug 8, 2013)

bassfishga said:


> This is my first year shooting 3D. I have only been shooting a bow a few years. So, I am kinda new at this. I had someone who taught me how to shoot a bow introduce me to 3D. I can say I really have enjoyed it and am already looking forward to next year.
> 
> I did miss a few shoots this year because the weather was up in the air.
> 
> ...



Christian Bowhunters of GA (shoots held just east of Covington) has a shooter of the year competition for several classes, as does Rock Branch in Elberton.  The Christian Bowhunters races used to have a good number of participants, but has fallen off in the last few years.

The MEGA that is referenced in this thread was a multi-location points system involving clubs at Lake Oconee, Covington, and McDonough, if my memory is correct.  There was a big year end event held down in Perry that year.  It was a fun time, but gas was less than $3 a gallon and more people had disposable income back then.  Maybe something like that can help keep folks involved.  Perhaps clubs can group up for regional points races to earn points towards a year-end event against shooters from the other regions


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## BOTTEMLINE (Aug 8, 2013)

*Smoke*

Ok what clubs are going to be participating??


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## the_great_white (Aug 8, 2013)

maybe an occasional day where people who are unsure of what 3D shooting is can come try it out to see if it's something they may be interested in without it having to be a competition?

personally i fall into this category and i would be willing to pay a small fee to do so.  I'm fairly new to archery and would like to try it out, but not competitively.

it would also be nice if there was a volunteer or someone who would walk through the process with you and explain how it all works.

i guess like an open house recruitment day type of thing?  that might help draft new members.


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## olinprice (Aug 8, 2013)

the_great_white said:


> maybe an occasional day where people who are unsure of what 3D shooting is can come try it out to see if it's something they may be interested in without it having to be a competition?
> 
> personally i fall into this category and i would be willing to pay a small fee to do so.  I'm fairly new to archery and would like to try it out, but not competitively.
> 
> ...


I like the idea i offered at the last shoot at high lonesome to pay the fee for 2 new comers but had no takers if you have never shot 3d before us at rocky comfort would be glad to shoot with you or guide you around.


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## BlackArcher (Aug 9, 2013)

*DA Big Picture...*

JoHn..(Big John that is)
In my opinion the Board should start out with the  a designated member from each participating club who is commited to making it happen...  Once you get past the initial bickering (like government)  Ya'll will nail it down...check and set the rules...(work) check and set a decent schedule (more work) get some peeps on the  commiteee... (work again) organize the commitees so they are not (over worked)... You definitely need an (IT) team ..why you ask to  collect SHOOTER DATA, put up a web site and ensure the SCORES are posted in a timely fashion...

Well that is all I got...  ( I can think up this stuff up... thats my job) WOrK..lol


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## BlackArcher (Aug 9, 2013)

dgmeadows said:


> Not what I want, but something that may matter for getting new folks involved, & believe it or not, I am going to propose something contrary to ASA rules....
> 
> A no speed limit novice class. We "serious" shooters accept the speed limit as an equalizer, but the guy with only one bow might come out and be disappointed that he cannot compete & only shoot for fun.  I have been at the sign in table where this happened more than a couple times.
> 
> Note I said novice class.  The more serious shooters should not be sandbagging in such a class.  Most guys, once hooked, generally will want to shoot ASA classes.  And I am not leaving women out, but I don't really think there are many women not shooting simply because their bow exceeds the speed limit.



Ok I am going to get beat up on this one... (bracing for impact)

How about removing the fun class.
Everyone competes... the winnders take home a trophy
This should encourage the newer shooters (  think)

You don't want to turn your card in...
("He shot like crap and did not want his score recorded... because he works and take cares of his family and don't have time to practice") lol

eh! I just think this crap up.. it is early  I can't sleep..


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## paulkeen (Aug 9, 2013)

everyone likes to shoot with there buddies (me too) i say scratch that and draw your group from a pile.. you dont get to pick your shooting group at asa


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## olinprice (Aug 9, 2013)

I know the key is advertising i have put an ad in our local paper thinking of puting one on our local radio. There again those cost money. I know the old saying you have to spend money to make money. If we are going to continue to have these local shoots we have to figure out how to get the weekend bow hunter who picks up their bow a few weeks before the season starts wont happen overnight there are alot of good ideas on this post keep it up. I have seen clubs and shoots come and go far to much to just let it die again in my area again, me and some buddies of mine use to have a little routine. Louisville, Thomson, Lincolnton, Augusta, we could shoot every weekend somewhere in those places and not more than 75 miles from me that was awesome. There are alot of shooters out there we have to reach.


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## BlackArcher (Aug 10, 2013)

olinprice said:


> I know the key is advertising i have put an ad in our local paper thinking of putting one on our local radio. There again those cost money. I know the old saying you have to spend money to make money. If we are going to continue to have these local shoots we have to figure out how to get the weekend bow hunter who picks up their bow a few weeks before the season starts wont happen overnight there are alot of good ideas on this post keep it up. I have seen clubs and shoots come and go far to much to just let it die again in my area again, me and some buddies of mine use to have a little routine. Louisville, Thomson, Lincolnton, Augusta, we could shoot every weekend somewhere in those places and not more than 75 miles from me that was awesome. There are alot of shooters out there we have to reach.




Well you also have to contend with the stupid hunter astigmatism..."if it don't bleed they don't shoot at it" or something like that... I heard another one having to do with paper and the tase of paper... Silly I say...  3D Archery was made or designed with the hunter in mind..  I am not a hunter... I have shot at a deer ... I have waited to shoot a deer... I am an archer that is how I classify myself... If I graduated to be a hunter I would want to practice all year and be as ready as I could  so when  that big buck decide to cross paths with me he would be dropped... 3D arhery would be my regular regiment.

All this to say convincing the closed minded hunter is the challenge...  Each one teach one may work in this case... 
If each competitor could bring a hunter who never shot, or a hunter that does not see the point in shooting 3D, we could double the attendance each shot... 

Yeah advertising is key...


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## BOTTEMLINE (Aug 10, 2013)

*Smoke*

Just left a church shoot in the middle of nothing and there was over 200 shooters most have never heard of this website ..Spanka you are correct .


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## Michaelp (Aug 10, 2013)

I use to shoot 3-d a lot, and love to shoot still. I avoid anything other then the hunter warm ups because I don't want to wait behind someone for 3 hours on a course when I can shoot it in 1. A lot of guys want to shoot, but like to walk up to a target, judge it and let it ride, same as in the woods. I don't want to wait on a guy to let down 6 times because the sun or shade may have him shooting left or right by a 1/4". 

I was that guy, and I'm not sure how you get around that for the normal shooter. Maybe 2 or 3 clubs, in the same vicinity could set up 1 shoot, 2 ranges adjacent to each other with different "lanes" so to speak. 

Think of a bowling alley, lanes 1 and 2 (1st shot) are both 37 yards, but lane 1 is for competitive shooters and land 2 is for the average joe just trying to shoot and move on. 

I know this is out there and may be stupid. As I said from the start, I use to shoot a lot of 3-d. I only bow hunt, 99% of the time, and roll with another 7 guys who do the same. We used to load up, at least 5 deep and head to a shoot a weekend. Now, only a hunter warmup because we are no longer able to make enough shoots to keep up with points, or make every Asa event. We are also no longer in it to win it, so making it an all day affair is not an option. 

The warm up shoots usually check some egos at the door, and a guy will just sling it. I shot sweetwater's warm up last year in an hour. I called a buddy as we were leaving and he later showed up with 3 others to shoot. He would never have came otherwise.


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## Big John (Aug 15, 2013)

Well I understand the hunter vs the archer.... 3D should be for both.. The 1st time a shot a 3D shoot it took 5 hours...  I said to myself As just a bow hunter then I don't want to waste 5 hours to shoot 20 targets. So I feel your pain. I should not take that long!!!


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## dgmeadows (Aug 15, 2013)

Big John said:


> Well I understand the hunter vs the archer.... 3D should be for both.. The 1st time a shot a 3D shoot it took 5 hours...  I said to myself As just a bow hunter then I don't want to waste 5 hours to shoot 20 targets. So I feel your pain. I should not take that long!!!



Here again, is where the Known categories play a role.  I was one of the last holdouts shooting Open (B) around here starting this year.  I went to several shoots, and I was the only 1, or 1 of a small few, but there was typically 10+ shooting Known 45.  I had that mentality that judging yardage was an important aspect of "the game", but I decided to give Known 45 a try.  I prefer Known now, because what used to take 3.5 hours or more can now be done in less than 2 hours.

I have been in the "slow group" before and listened to others grumble behind us as each of our group stepped up and took their full minute (and sometimes more) to judge the distance.  I have also been behind groups slower than my own, but I have no problem skipping ahead and picking up the skipped target when I come back around. 

I know a club host will respond that there is no way they can afford 2 sets of targets for an Open range and a Hunter range - no doubt - but if you just have Known categories, that will go a long way towards speeding things up.  Where they are offered, the Known categories are typically the largest and grow every event. Rangefinders are in most every archer's hunting bag these days, so using them on the practice range (which is what many guys say 3D is for them) is just logical.  

For those few remaining slow groups of unknown distance shooters, just let everyone know that "playing through" or "shooting around" is encouraged.

The bottom line is you want to encourage people to come out, not discourage them.  Making people take longer than they want is discouraging.  Telling them they cannot use a rangefinder (or any other equipment) if they prefer to do so is discouraging.  I know you can't have 50 classes, but if you want to increase participation, you should not exclude any class people obviously are interested in, such as Known, or the "No Speed Limit" class mentioned above.

I had a similar "debate" with some guys on the Trad forum a couple years ago.  I had a metal riser, ILF limb recurve.  Because I did not shoot off the shelf, but had a raised rest, a Trad event literally had NO category I could shoot in.  When I asked about a Fun category (i.e., not competing, just shooting with my friends) they said there wasn't one.  Literally, they said if I brought that bow, I could not shoot on their range.    They did not receive any money from me.


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## oldgeez (Aug 15, 2013)

the people we SHOULD have been asking were and are still going to the so called "church shoots??"  these are traditionally right before deer season, and these guys and girls come out of the woodwork!!  how can you have 650 shooters, 650 mind you, at the bc grant shoot??  somebody needs to walk around as ask some of these "hunter only" types, "what would it take to get you to start shooting year round???"  I was stunned to hear that many folks shoot bow and arrow around here.


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## Big John (Aug 16, 2013)

Yet me ask,If there is only one event.. Do you make plans to go? But if they are every month, Do you say I will try to make it to one of them? I know in other events like NASCAR If they can't fill the stands with 2 races... Then they cut it back to just one... Maybe a new club have 2 Big shoots a year.... Less work for the club & more shooters will be like I want to go they only have 2 of them.... Just my 2 cents


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## oldgeez (Aug 16, 2013)

the hunters are there, alright.  you can see it at the special hunting shoots, all the clubs put on.  deer season gets their adrenalin flowing, and here they come.  mostly all of my archery buds are like that, but they've got the archery bug, too.  the trick is to get the "hunters only" types out of the closet and make them fall in love with archery.  it's most fear of the unknown...you've got to really love something to jump in there...and stay in there.  I've said it for years, the ones that stay, year in and year out, are usually the ones that loved archery growing up.  archery is a fond childhood memory.  that's why it's soooo important to get the kids early


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## GaBuckSlammer (Aug 16, 2013)

I think the funniest, yet saddest line I ever heard was from a buddy I had asked to go shoot 3D with me. His excuse, "I cant afford that many arrows". With the thoughts racing through my head at his lack of confidence in his ability coupled with his lack of dtermination to get better, I wanted to say "and you plan to hunt and ethically harvest?"


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## olinprice (Aug 16, 2013)

GaBuckSlammer said:


> I think the funniest, yet saddest line I ever heard was from a buddy I had asked to go shoot 3D with me. His excuse, "I cant afford that many arrows". With the thoughts racing through my head at his lack of confidence in his ability coupled with his lack of dtermination to get better, I wanted to say "and you plan to hunt and ethically harvest?"



I hear that every time i ask someone who has never been lol.


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## jakeeib (Aug 16, 2013)

olinprice said:


> Im for it i know destiny farm and high lonesome, Culpepper outdoors has also said just let him know when so i think it will work.



Count FT Gordon in.


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## jakeeib (Aug 16, 2013)

And I'll weigh in....
Clubs must first decide what type of crowd they want to draw to their shoots. If you only want the competitive tournament archer then so be it, but that is what drives away the "average Joe" archer. 

We have all heard the "I’m not good enough" it is because they just don’t know, then when they do show up or drive by they see 3' stabs and tournament rigs. it is intimidating and no man wants to come out and embarrass himself. Heck I know how to hit a golf ball but if someone ask me to play in a tournament….he would get a weird look and a heck NO. Folks not inside the archery community feel the same way.

So let’s start catering more to the average guy/gal, let us make the shoots easier, who is it going to kill to have a 35 yd max? The tournament archer is going to complain no matter what, to close, to far, to much brush, lanes to wide….you name it they will find something; but you know what they will be back at the next shoot complaining again.

Lets get the hunter or back yard archer out there and get them shooting.


While at my last duty station we ran into the very same problem, along with the hassle of being on an Army base. We cracked the code with rule changes and door prizes.

Drop the max speed limit, who cares? Go to a 50/50 split for known vs unknown, many hunters have never guessed an animal, they use range finders. Throw in some door prizes, just little things, we used to buy one pretty good prize and they rest we found random things on clearance racks. Who says they must be archery or hunting prizes, every guy likes an Allen wrench or set of screw drivers or $5 gift card to McDonalds. 
Just give everyone a chance to win something.

The cheaters, you will never beat them, do what you can and enforce the rules, but as long as everyone has a chance to win something and have a good time they will be happy.

Have some fun novelty shots, or poker, or something. Anything to keep the people there in a nice practice area shooting, that is where they will have the most fun and will meet other archers they will bond with. This will reduce the new guy feeling like a stranger.  Do the same thing for the kids, they will shoot for hours if they have something other than dots to shoot at.

The church shoots are so large, in part, because they turn it into an all day family event. The same thing 3D archery was 20 years ago.

To all the “tournament” archers, I know we go to local shoots to prepare for an ASA event, but go last or hit the course during a lull and shoot from wherever you want, if your are truly “practicing” then you are not concerned about a $4 trophy. 

Oh by the way I am a tournament archer and a bow hunter. I have run club shoots and built archery ranges from scratch. I mention this just so you understand I have seen this sport from all perspectives. It is dying and we are the reason.


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## jakeeib (Aug 16, 2013)

jt12 said:


> If most clubs could have some type of format that produced a shooter of the year or champion for each class. Then at the end of the year it would be fun to have each clubs champions ( that would repersent the club) to compete to see who has the best club shooters.



Now this would be fun. Every club nominates 2 shooters per class and at the end of the year we hold an ASA style PRO Range, spectators and all.  Lets put a couple hogs in the ground and make it a party. 

Winning club gets a traveling trophy and the right to talk smack all year long.


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## olinprice (Aug 16, 2013)

jakeeib said:


> Count FT Gordon in.



Will do


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## killitgrillit (Aug 16, 2013)

GaBuckSlammer said:


> I think the funniest, yet saddest line I ever heard was from a buddy I had asked to go shoot 3D with me. His excuse, "I cant afford that many arrows". With the thoughts racing through my head at his lack of confidence in his ability coupled with his lack of dtermination to get better, I wanted to say "and you plan to hunt and ethically harvest?"



That was suppose to be between me and you!!!


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## Dyrewulf (Aug 16, 2013)

LOL - I've had people who thought they needed 6+ arrows PER TARGET for 3D, as in 'I get to keep shooting this target, right?'


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## olinprice (Aug 16, 2013)

We laugh but if they would just come to one they would laugh and say why havent i done this before


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## Michaelp (Aug 17, 2013)

Church shoots work because guys are comfortable. Most leave the 4' stabs, and scopes at home and bring the bow that looks like everyone else's. They also show up in jeans and boots and leave the "colors" at home as well. They talk hunting, what they are seeing, how the wife has been etc...I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just the way it is. Make your shoot reflect this, and they will come.


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## oldgeez (Aug 17, 2013)

they shouldn't be intimidated by the tournament archers.  they are in the open and unlimited classes.  most guys are in the hunter classes and known classes.  there is a class for just about any style shooter.  the problem is getting the hunters to recognize this and come out for that FIRST shoot...I've seen it happen over and over.  if every shooter that comes out, stayed, there would be no problem.  the real problem is they come out and all of a sudden, they get serious....they get hooked..just like candy crush....then target panic sets in, and they're gone.  it's a shame really


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## t8ter (Aug 17, 2013)

We will be trying to get a Tri-State championship for next year.We will have a designated shoot at Benton Tn,Fulldraw Ga and Davey mnt N.C.Scores from all 3 will b Tri state champion.Hoping this build the numbers up for these clubs.Also bringing some $$$ for the 2 stores involved.These 3 clubs are kinda in areas away from the core of shooters.So maybe something like this will help.Maybe even grow bigger in the future adding more than 3 dates for the championship.


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## ddd-shooter (Aug 17, 2013)

jakeeib said:


> And I'll weigh in....
> Clubs must first decide what type of crowd they want to draw to their shoots. If you only want the competitive tournament archer then so be it, but that is what drives away the "average Joe" archer.
> 
> We have all heard the "I’m not good enough" it is because they just don’t know, then when they do show up or drive by they see 3' stabs and tournament rigs. it is intimidating and no man wants to come out and embarrass himself. Heck I know how to hit a golf ball but if someone ask me to play in a tournament….he would get a weird look and a heck NO. Folks not inside the archery community feel the same way.
> ...



I agree with this completely. 

Also, I've said before that hunters do not care about scorecards and scoring rings.


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## BowanaLee (Aug 17, 2013)

jakeeib said:


> And I'll weigh in....
> Clubs must first decide what type of crowd they want to draw to their shoots. If you only want the competitive tournament archer then so be it, but that is what drives away the "average Joe" archer.
> 
> We have all heard the "I’m not good enough" it is because they just don’t know, then when they do show up or drive by they see 3' stabs and tournament rigs. it is intimidating and no man wants to come out and embarrass himself. Heck I know how to hit a golf ball but if someone ask me to play in a tournament….he would get a weird look and a heck NO. Folks not inside the archery community feel the same way.
> ...



I disagree with some of this. Right now the tournament archers, as you call em, are the only thing keeping the clubs going. I saw em shooting in the rain today. 
Your basically dishing the accomplished archer for their ability. That will not bring in shooters. Theres a class for everything you just mentioned. It is easy from the novice stake. The beginners just don't know it. I think we just need to get em to a few shoots. After that, the archery bug itself will get em.

One thing we could do is get the schedules out and start advertising now.
Get the word out here, on facebook and anywhere else you can think of. 
How about bringing a friend. 1st time shooters shoot free at all clubs ? Bring 2 or more friends and you shoot free ? (In non money classes)
Add a man/women crossbow class to your advertisement ? And push it. They'll probably feel more out of place than a new shooter. 
You'll have to be strict with the novice class rules. 2 wins and you have to move up to give the new shooters a chance at their 1st trophy. This is not ASA. 
Always have a novelty shoot. Maybe a 1-5  target Iron man through the bushes ? Or a 1 target long shot, balloon pop or Iron buck ? Be creative, it don't have to be fancy.
Invest in a patching kit to make those kills last a little longer. Use em on novelty shoot if you have to ?


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## oldgeez (Aug 18, 2013)

lee's right...tournament archers (3' stabs) keep coming back because they've got the competitive bug.  they shoot every weekend, somewhere.  they are the steady income for the clubs, that are hanging on by their toenails.  1st timers shoot free...good one..i thing the cbg does that already.  fulltime was telling me, they had like 11 shooters, and 6 were free, but that's an investment in the future.


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## BowanaLee (Aug 18, 2013)

The rain washed out CBG or they would've had a larger turnout. I already heard those new shooters in another thread talking about shooting more. 
That extra lane where the ACE shoot was, would make a great novelty shoot area. Its right where everyone can see.


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## BigThig09 (Aug 18, 2013)

As a kid 15-20 years ago, I used to shoot a few 3-d tournaments a year with my dad and friends. I LOVED it. For some reason, we quit going. I've always wanted to get back into it, but like many here have said, I was intimidated by the "big time" shooters and quite frankly didn't have the confidence to do it. Yesterday I shot the charity event held by 323 archery and Gable's sporting goods. It was for fun, and for a great cause so I figured why not? Let me tell you, it was a BLAST and I am ate up with it now! They had a "break the lifesaver" competition that I couldn't get enough of (but my wallet did) lol...I wound up placing 2nd in that event, and the encouragement of the more serious shooters telling me I had the talent to shoot competitively and that they wanted to see me out there more boosted my confidence ten fold! It was a great event and I can honestly say 323 archery created a spark on a new shooter yesterday! Well done!

Simply put; Keep it simple, make it fun, and they will come!


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## Miss Ginger (Aug 19, 2013)

As the creator of MEGA.... Along with Steve Pittman and Robert Hillsman.......I still have all of the paperwork... rules and regs... etc.....and the one of the most valuable parts of the make - up of MEGA..... the automated scoring system that I developed to manage such a HUGE undertaking.....


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## olinprice (Aug 28, 2013)

Lets dont let this topic die just because 3d is almost over what about saw blades seems to be a hit at the appling festival do people really like it


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