# Simple question~~~



## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

Who founded, is responsible for the existence of, Atheism?


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## ted_BSR (Jul 23, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Who founded, is responsible for the existence of, Atheism?



I don't know the answer, but I reckon it has been in existence as long as humans have.


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## ambush80 (Jul 23, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Who founded, is responsible for the existence of, Atheism?





ted_BSR said:


> I don't know the answer, but I reckon it has been in existence as long as humans have.



Some caveman, after much thought,  looked at the Shaman and said "Buffalo chips!!"


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## ted_BSR (Jul 23, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Some caveman, after much thought,  looked at the Shaman and said "Buffalo chips!!"



I'll take that as agreement with my comment, but I have to point out that Buffalo are a modern animal, and were not likely to be around during "caveman times".


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## bullethead (Jul 23, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I'll take that as agreement with my comment, but I have to point out that Buffalo are a modern animal, and were not likely to be around during "caveman times".



About when were the buffalo "poofed" into existence?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> About when were the buffalo "poofed" into existence?


http://library.sandiegozoo.org/factsheets/_extinct/bison_extinct/bison_extinct.htm


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## JFS (Jul 23, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> http://library.sandiegozoo.org/factsheets/_extinct/bison_extinct/bison_extinct.htm



This says bison are 2 million years old, so clearly an overlap with the stone age.


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## ambush80 (Jul 23, 2011)

JFS said:


> This says bison are 2 million years old, so clearly an overlap with the stone age.



God just made it to look that way to test us.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

JFS said:


> This says bison are 2 million years old, so clearly an overlap with the stone age.


So was Atheism started pre-bison? If so, by who?


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## ted_BSR (Jul 23, 2011)

OK guys, that joke obviously did not crawl up anyone's leg and bite them. Just a joke!!!


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## atlashunter (Jul 23, 2011)

Everyone is born an atheist.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Everyone is born an atheist.


got a link to prove that?


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## bullethead (Jul 23, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> everyone is born an atheist.



bingo!


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> bingo!


How so?


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## bullethead (Jul 23, 2011)

Because you have not been told about any higher power. You have no belief or disbelief at birth. You are at the mercy of your culture.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Because you have not been told about any higher power. You have no belief or disbelief at birth. You are at the mercy of your culture.



That notion is neither provable nor dis-provable.


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## atlashunter (Jul 23, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That notion is neither provable nor dis-provable.



Sure it is. Just ask a child who has never been told about God if they believe in God. It's also evidenced as being true by the fact that Christians and churches put time and energy into teaching children about God and Jesus.


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## ambush80 (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That notion is neither provable nor dis-provable.



My daughter thinks that Jesus is a figurine on her grandparent's mantle at Christmas.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That notion is neither provable nor dis-provable.



I can use myself as an example. I did not know of or have any care in the world about a higher power until I was taught by my parents,family, culture, and surroundings. Had I been marooned on a deserted Island when I was 2yrs old and somehow able to survive without anyone telling me what, how or who I had to worship, I'd still have gotten along just fine talking to the coconuts. There would be no way for me to know I HAD to believe in anything. I would figure I am the only one of my kind and that is the way it is. Never knowing there was anyone else I would not miss anyone or wonder where they went when they died. Having to hunt and fend for myself any deceased sea or land animal used for food would just be part of the circle of life. I would not wonder where they "go" or who they "go to" after I eat them. I'd only be in real trouble when a passing ship filled with people ready to spread the good word landed on the island and TOLD me that I had to believe in a God, not just any God but their God, or else they'd kill me for not being like them. Some people never had a choice to be an atheist.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Sure it is. Just ask a child who has never been told about God if they believe in God. It's also evidenced as being true by the fact that Christians and churches put time and energy into teaching children about God and Jesus.





bullethead said:


> I can use myself as an example. I did not know of or have any care in the world about a higher power until I was taught by my parents,family, culture, and surroundings. Had I been marooned on a deserted Island when I was 2yrs old and somehow able to survive without anyone telling me what, how or who I had to worship, I'd still have gotten along just fine talking to the coconuts. There would be no way for me to know I HAD to believe in anything. I would figure I am the only one of my kind and that is the way it is. Never knowing there was anyone else I would not miss anyone or wonder where they went when they died. Having to hunt and fend for myself any deceased sea or land animal used for food would just be part of the circle of life. I would not wonder where they "go" or who they "go to" after I eat them. I'd only be in real trouble when a passing ship filled with people ready to spread the good word landed on the island and TOLD me that I had to believe in a God, not just any God but their God, or else they'd kill me for not being like them. Some people never had a choice to be an atheist.



Those are all cute and sweet theories, but consider the global facts that abound within third world country tribes, not effected by European religious influence. They too were born without knowledge of God, but have formed and worshiped their own form of a deity or deities for centuries. Outside of the influential teachings of Atheism, man will create a deity within his own mind as an explanation of what, why and how. It is just human nature.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> How so?



Probably because they were just born as opposed to born again.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Probably because they were just born as opposed to born again.


Is that direct from the Atheist Manifesto?


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Is that direct from the Atheist Manifesto?



Is there such a thing?  Either way the answer is no.  Just simple logic, if logic actually has a place in discussion of religion that is.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 24, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> My daughter thinks that Jesus is a figurine on her grandparent's mantle at Christmas.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Those are all cute and sweet theories, but consider the global facts that abound within third world country tribes, not effected by European religious influence. They too were born without knowledge of God, but have formed and worshiped their own form of a deity or deities for centuries. Outside of the influential teachings of Atheism, man will create a deity within his own mind as an explanation of what, why and how. It is just human nature.



You might be surprised but I actually agree with you. People in every culture in every part of the world form and worship higher powers. Whether a being we never saw or a sun, star, tree or idol that our minds made up. I firmly believe it is human nature to want more. I believe that spending time on this earth is not enough and we HOPE there is something more afterwards. To most it is inconceivable that this is it. I really truly understand that believing in a higher power or better place to go after life is one of the ways humans cope with the thought of mortality. We know we are going to die. It is a fact. Whether it is today or 100 years from now it is going to happen. We do not want life to end and we need ways to keep our minds from thinking about it and we need comforting thoughts to make it all make sense. We (humans) convince ourselves that there has to be more after we are dead in order to live now. We NEED to know we and our loved ones are going somewhere better with a being that is just like us only the ultimate version of us. Us without the faults. We need to know we are going to the best place that only our minds can conjure up.That thought turns into someone creating a set of guidelines or rules to follow. Those turn into a religion. If left to individuals there would still be beliefs in higher powers but very few would come to the same conclusions on who, what, where and how. Only when it is organized by man do we start to get other followers. Get one other person to believe as you do and now you have a following. Get 10, 100, 100,000 or a billion and you have an influential force but just because it is a majority does not make it right. Within those numbers there is always someone who believes ALMOST like the original set of guidelines, but has one simple change that makes sense to him, he gets ONE other person to believe like him, that turns ten, 100,  1,000.....and so on and so on. By nature we need to be loved, we need to be social, we need to feel that we have a purpose. We do not want those thoughts to end. It is easier to make up a higher being or cause and promise ourselves that all the things we need will be fulfilled, if not now, then when we die. Man has done an excellent job of using those feelings and needs as a means of gaining power and wealth with only the promise of something better AFTER we are gone. These same people are somehow the same ones that are closer to that divine being, they speak and are spoken to by it. They write down what that divine being has to say, they use their thoughts as a tool for control in life with promises of rewards in the after life. Unfortunately/fortunately they cannot cover all the bases and despite their claims of divine superiority guiding their words, it is clear to some of us that there is nothing divine about it at all. Some of us have no problem with others believing in a higher power. I say whatever gets you through life is A-OK with me. Do good, be good, reap good. Strive for the best and accept what does not work out. If man wants to write down a set of guidelines that is fine, but if your going to pass them off as the work of a superior being then it is going to be held to the standards of the claims within the writings. Some of us just expect more out of that higher power...more divinity in the divine, more super in the superior, less fallibility in the infallible. Right now, personally, I see mans involvement and influence more than any divine being. When the results do not match the claims it is not hard to be an atheist.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Only when it is organized by man do we start to get other followers. Get one other person to believe as you do and now you have a following. Get 10, 100, 100,000 or a billion and you have an influential force but just because it is a majority does not make it right. Within those numbers there is always someone who believes ALMOST like the original set of guidelines, but has one simple change that makes sense to him, he gets ONE other person to believe like him, that turns ten, 100,  1,000.....and so on and so on. .


This is different from Atheism how?


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> This is different from Atheism how?



As far as I know there is no "official guidebook" for atheists. No atheist bible, no wild claims of supernatural guidance. If there are I do not know of them or read them. Based off of being on this planet for 41 years and 11 months I have come to these thoughts and conclusions on my own AFTER spending the first 20 years worshiping a divine being. I am glad I have taken the time to see both sides of it and of the thoughts and conclusions which I now hold.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> As far as I know there is no "official guidebook" for atheists. No atheist bible, no wild claims of supernatural guidance. If there are I do not know of them or read them. Based off of being on this planet for 41 years and 11 months I have come to these thoughts and conclusions on my own AFTER spending the first 20 years worshiping a divine being. I am glad I have taken the time to see both sides of it and of the thoughts and conclusions which I now hold.


So you haven't read any books, articles, op-eds or video or other media, etc. supporting Atheism from like minded people and agreed with, or adopted some of their ideas or thinking? There are a plethora of them out there, so the sharing of ideas in relation to the ideal way of thinking for Atheist exist.

Interestingly enough, one of them has even adopted this title;

http://www.atheistbible.net/


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Those are all cute and sweet theories, but consider the global facts that abound within third world country tribes, not effected by European religious influence. They too were born without knowledge of God, but have formed and worshiped their own form of a deity or deities for centuries. Outside of the influential teachings of Atheism, man will create a deity within his own mind as an explanation of what, why and how. It is just human nature.



Yes, *MAN* will create a deity. And he will pass it on to his children by teaching them about the deity. You've just agreed with us.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Yes, *MAN* will create a deity. And he will pass it on to his children by teaching them about the deity. You've just agreed with us.


Now continue to read my other posts and explain how Atheism is any different?


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> So you haven't read any books, articles, op-eds or video or other media, etc. supporting Atheism from like minded people and agreed with, or adopted some of their ideas or thinking? There are a plethora of them out there, so the sharing of ideas in relation to the ideal way of thinking for Atheist exist.
> 
> Interestingly enough, one of them has even adopted this title;
> 
> http://www.atheistbible.net/



I have read articles along those lines. I have also read articles in Sports Illustrated, Handloader, Outdoor Life, Books on the Civil War, The Bible, ingredients on the label of a box of Laundry detergent and just about anything else with print on it. To gain knowledge or have a personal opinion about anything it is wise to be as well informed as possible.

What I do not do is tell anyone they must believe like me. I do not belong to any sort of organized group that owes our very existence to a higher power. I do not claim to know anything beyond what I have been able to prove to myself. I do not use any atheist writings as a guide to live my life.

You too are an atheist, you do not believe in any of the other tens of thousands of Gods that have been worshiped for thousands of centuries by mankind. You choose to believe in only one of those gods and dismiss all the others for the same reasons an atheist and those that worship something else dismisses yours.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Atheism is a disbelief, not a belief.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I do not claim to know anything beyond what I have been able to prove to myself..


What course of action, thinking, reasoning do you take when you come up against something you can't explain, or prove to yourself?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Atheism is a disbelief, not a belief.



To believe that Christians are wrong, is a belief. To believe that right wing conservatives are overbearing and controlling, is a belief. Right or wrong, Atheist believe in more than they are willing to admit.

To borrow a lyric from a Rush song; "if I chose not to decide, I still have made a choice"


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

I accept it for what it is, unknown.

In time we will know for sure about many things which are now unknown or unexplainable. I do not use an invisible friend excuse to cover all the bases. Remember the world was once flat.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I accept it for what it is, unknown.
> 
> In time we will know for sure about many things which are now unknown or unexplainable. I do not use an invisible friend excuse to cover all the bases. Remember the world was once flat.


Thus, time is no relevance, yet you still show up to work, "on time".


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> To believe that Christians are wrong, is a belief. To believe that right wing conservatives are overbearing and controlling, is a belief. Right or wrong, Atheist believe in more than they are willing to admit.
> 
> To borrow a lyric from a Rush song; "if I chose not to decide, I still have made a choice"



"I will choose Free Will"


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> "I will choose Free Will"


And thanks to our current system of government you are, to a great extent, afforded that right.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Thus, time is no relevance, yet you still show up to work, "on time".



 I am able conduct myself in a manner that time is in my control and I can make use of the time that I have. Time is relevant.  I do not know who will be President of the United States in the year 2100. In time, someone will. I can live with that.


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## WTM45 (Jul 24, 2011)

Reckon around the same time folks started thinking of deities and becoming "theists" there were others who started thinking those "theists" were a little strange.

There are many who live their lives worrying not about what is imagined, what is hoped for or what is beyond ever being able to know with all certainty exists.
They simply take the life which they have and live it to the fullest every day.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

miguel cervantes said:


> and thanks to our current system of government you are, to a great extent, afforded that right.



okayyyyy.........????


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## WTM45 (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> And thanks to our current system of government you are, to a great extent, afforded that right.



I do not think ANY form of government can prevent a person from believing as they wish in their own heart and mind.

I do see what your point intends to convey though.  The ultimate price must be paid and repaid for a true free society to be maintained.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> okayyyyy.........????



Which means if you don't believe in Jesus, you worship Obama and love communism.  At least I think that's what he's getting at.  Pretty close I feel certain.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Which means if you don't believe in Jesus, you worship Obama and love communism.  At least I think that's what he's getting at.  Pretty close I feel certain.





Actually, I take that back. I don't want to make a comment about something he may or may not have meant without it being clear. Sorry Miguel


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Which means if you don't believe in Jesus, you worship Obama and love communism.  At least I think that's what he's getting at.  Pretty close I feel certain.


Nice stab, but next time use the sharp end of your wit (knife). That one didn't stick.


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Now continue to read my other posts and explain how Atheism is any different?



It is different because it isn't a belief, it's a lack of a belief. We all begin as atheists because we all start with an ignorance of the concept of god.

 It could not be said that you believed in leprechauns if you had never in your life learned of them. If I tell you all about leprechauns and I'm not successful in convincing you they are real your "beliefs" are the same as before you knew anything of them. You are still without belief in leprechauns.


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

This game is so old. Think up some claim that depends on acceptance without evidence and then when it's rejected due to lack of evidence you accuse those rejecting the claim of engaging in the same faith based belief so as to put them on the same level as those who accepted the claim without evidence.

Nice try but no cigar.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I am able conduct myself in a manner that time is in my control and I can make use of the time that I have. Time is relevant.  I do not know who will be President of the United States in the year 2100. In time, someone will. I can live with that.



There is a lot of faith in that statement. Time is a perfect example of something that humans really can't comprehend (let alone control). We divide it up into measurable bits so we can "keep track of it" but nobody truly understands the passage of a moment.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> This game is so old. Think up some claim that depends on acceptance without evidence and then when it's rejected due to lack of evidence you accuse those rejecting the claim of engaging in the same faith based belief so as to put them on the same level as those who accepted the claim without evidence.
> 
> Nice try but no cigar.



So you consider yourself on a higher level then those who believe in God?


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> There is a lot of faith in that statement. Time is a perfect example of something that humans really can't comprehend (let alone control). We divide it up into measurable bits so we can "keep track of it" but nobody truly understands the passage of a moment.



True, I didn't quite put it how I meant it. I am able to deal with some bits of time and others that I cannot I don't worry about. I also agree that we cannot comprehend TIME and that is one of the main points about man and religion that I make. We make up a simple quick fix to compensate for the vastness of Time. We use a man made "out" to explain the unexplainable because we cannot fathom time, space or distance.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> True, I didn't quite put it how I meant it. I am able to deal with some bits of time and others that I cannot I don't worry about. I also agree that we cannot comprehend TIME and that is one of the main points about man and religion that I make. We make up a simple quick fix to compensate for the vastness of Time. We use a man made "out" to explain the unexplainable because we cannot fathom time, space or distance.



As you search frantically for reverse.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> As you search frantically for reverse.



?? explain?


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> As you search frantically for reverse.



I guarantee that if you search my posts I have stated that numerous times.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> This game is so old. Think up some claim that depends on acceptance without evidence and then when it's rejected due to lack of evidence you accuse those rejecting the claim of engaging in the same faith based belief so as to put them on the same level as those who accepted the claim without evidence.
> 
> Nice try but no cigar.



So you "believe" that things just happen, you "believe" that things are just what they are, and nothing more, but you want to call it a "disbelief". Is that correct?


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> So you "believe" that things just happen, you "believe" that things are just what they are, and nothing more, but you want to call it a "disbelief". Is that correct?



Are you being purposefully vague?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Are you being purposefully vague?


No, I am trying to understand the Atheist train of thought (I would have used "belief" but you guys keep discounting that word) by you guys constantly stating what you believe in, but in the same breath clinging to the mantra of a system of disbelief. It just seems like more of a complex of denial than a system of disbelief.


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> No, I am trying to understand the Atheist train of thought (I would have used "belief" but you guys keep discounting that word) by you guys constantly stating what you believe in, but in the same breath clinging to the mantra of a system of disbelief. It just seems like more of a complex of denial than a system of disbelief.



Atheism is not a belief, it's a lack of belief. I don't know how to make it any more clear than that. If you are without belief in god as we all are when we first come into the world, you're an atheist.

I "believe" your original question has been answered.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Atheism is not a belief, it's a lack of belief. I don't know how to make it any more clear than that. If you are without belief in god as we all are when we first come into the world, you're an atheist.
> 
> I "believe" your original question has been answered.


So Atheism is a belief in everything but deities? yet no one person invented, authored this belief, or more accurately, system of rejection?


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

Not only is Atheism a lack of belief but it is a lack of faith. Atheists "beliefs" are not based off of faith.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Not only is Atheism a lack of belief but it is a lack of faith. Atheists "beliefs" are not based off of faith.


There's that dichotomous statement again. The more I dig, google and read about Atheism, the more I realize that there is plenty of history, and belief systems behind it, and at it's core it is quite simply a rejection of deities, not a lack of belief system. It is really quite interesting reading, going as far back as 3000 BCE with the foundational beliefs of Jainism and non-creationalism (all belief systems) and it develops from there through various global cultures, some that rejected Gods of any form, but believed the body possessed a spirit Then there were the purer forms that had clear cut beliefs that completely rejected any forms of Gods. And lastly there were the more sinister, modern day Atheistic thinkers such as Karl Marx and others who chose to incorporate Atheism into their political motives to control a society, not much unlike the statist persecutions against "non-believers" by the ancient europeans in 330 BCE. A sort of turn about is fair play theory I suppose  that some have carried forward into modern day western Atheism. It seems to be an age old struggle between humans since they have come into existence on this big ol' ball of dirt and rock. 

One thing is apparently clear, is that most believers and non-believers alike, would do well to study the origins and history of Atheism.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> So you consider yourself on a higher level then those who believe in God?



Atlas - Do you not feel like answering this question?


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## atlashunter (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Atlas - Do you not feel like answering this question?



I thought about it. But it's a loaded question and not really worth a response.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> ?? explain?



Would you like to answer this question Ted?


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Would you like to answer this question Ted?



I will.

It might be an arguement over semantics, but it seemed that your prior statement contradicted your current statement. Thus the comment about "reverse".


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I thought about it. But it's a loaded question and not really worth a response.



The original question:
_So you consider yourself on a higher level then those who believe in God?_

Which I believe you have answered twice now, in the affirmative. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is not a loaded question. I will have no response to your answer.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is telling.

If you believe in your own superiority to "believers", then I would just be wasting my breath (or keystrokes).


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Would you like to answer this question Ted?



bullethead - we have had civil discussions, and my lack of response was due to timing, and the fact that you posted again seeming to understand my comment. As I have stated (and so have you) my lack of understanding may be purely based on semantics. I freely admit this, and accept your clarification. Thank You.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> bullethead - we have had civil discussions, and my lack of response was due to timing, and the fact that you posted again seeming to understand my comment. As I have stated (and so have you) my lack of understanding may be purely based on semantics. I freely admit this, and accept your clarification. Thank You.



Actually I was unsure EXACTLY what you were referring to. My second post was in reference that I have stated numerous times that because mankind cannot fathom time we make excuses, often divine excuses ,to make up for it.
I was not SURE if that was what you were referring to. OR...

In my first post about "controlling" time was in response when I was asked if I show up to work "on time". I gotta say, specifically pertaining to showing up to work on time, that even though I get to work much earlier than necessary(allowing for traffic and unforeseen hold ups....it is a whole 4 blocks I must travel) I open my shop at a certain time. Once I arrive at my business  I adjust my pace so that I open at the same time every day no matter how early I am. I can "waste" time reading the morning newspaper. Certain aspects of my time are controllable and can be manipulated and dealt with. Other aspects cannot. Each are accepted the same to me.

I always enjoy our conversations Ted. I just have to learn not to be so general in my replies.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Actually I was unsure EXACTLY what you were referring to. My second post was in reference that I have stated numerous times that because mankind cannot fathom time we make excuses, often divine excuses ,to make up for it.
> I was not SURE if that was what you were referring to. OR...
> 
> In my first post about "controlling" time was in response when I was asked if I show up to work "on time". I gotta say, specifically pertaining to showing up to work on time, that even though I get to work much earlier than necessary(allowing for traffic and unforeseen hold ups....it is a whole 4 blocks I must travel) I open my shop at a certain time. Once I arrive at my business  I adjust my pace so that I open at the same time every day no matter how early I am. I can "waste" time reading the morning newspaper. Certain aspects of my time are controllable and can be manipulated and dealt with. Other aspects cannot. Each are accepted the same to me.



I understand. But I must say that allowing yourself a few extra minutes to get to where you need to be "on time", is a far cry from controlling it. It is more like resigning yourself to it. This discussion could result in a total hi jack of this thread, which I am not totally opposed to, but out of respect for the OP and responders, I think we should open another discussion.


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## bullethead (Jul 24, 2011)

The point was once at work(always early) I "open" or "start" on time. I can choose what to do with the time before I open up.

Noted on off-topic......I'll say no more about it.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> The point was once at work(always early) I "open" or "start" on time. I can choose what to do with the time before I open up.
> 
> Noted on off-topic......I'll say no more about it.



I'll try and collect my thoughts and start a new thread on this matter, but what forum will we use? Is there a Star Trek forum? 

I appreciate you  bullethead. I look forward to future discussions. Best, Ted


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