# Boykin will not come back when called



## BBowman (Nov 6, 2013)

I have a 7 month old boykin that is extremely stubborn.  She is now all of a sudden wanting to roam when I say "Here" .  I trained her to "here" with a long leash.  Now it's as if she wants to do what she wants to do.  This is potentially dangerous for her and I don't need anymore blood pressure meds. What do I do?


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## chadf (Nov 6, 2013)

Show the dog who's boss..........


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## JuliaH (Nov 6, 2013)

Back on the long leash or check cord. Be sure she has plenty of room and go back to basics.  Sometimes they need a reminder that you CAN catch them.  It could be time for gentle reminders with an e-collar too.  

When loose, don't take no for an answer. If you have to follow her however long, when you call her you gotta get her 


Julia


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## Joe Overby (Nov 6, 2013)

CC to here. Takes 3 days max.


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## quackwacker (Nov 6, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> CC to here. Takes 3 days max.



This!


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## BBowman (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks guys.  She is a great dog and a joy to have.  She is just energetic.  What does the "CC" mean in CC to here? Sorry, she's my first dog to train.  I'm liking the challenge.  I've been told that I started with a tough breed because of their stubborness.


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## BBowman (Nov 6, 2013)

Quackwacker, I just noticed that it looks as if you have a boykin by you in your avatar. If so, did you train it?


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

I have trained several of them


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## ngaduck (Nov 7, 2013)

CC means collar conditioning. Get yourself a complete, proven training program. The reason they are tough to train is because they are spaniels, and I am assuming you are trying to train her to retrieve.


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## Ol Crooked Toe (Nov 7, 2013)

Train it like a lab and if it can't cut it try another one.


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## ryano (Nov 7, 2013)

ngaduck said:


> CC means collar conditioning. Get yourself a complete, proven training program. .



Or send her off to someone that knows what they are doing.  Worked for me.

No way would I have ever felt comfortable with CC or FF no matter what program I watched


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## Ol Crooked Toe (Nov 7, 2013)

Whatever you do. Don't just strap a collar on and start pressing buttons. Meet with a pro.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 7, 2013)

Ol Crooked Toe said:


> Train it like a lab and if it can't cut it try another one.


I had a Boykin ruined by a Lab trainer using Lab techniques. That was a very expensive mistake. Some Boykins can take it, but in general, when young and going through the socialization process along with training, they can be a little more sensitive to strong arming than Labs are. 

Boykins can be hard headed, but come around very quickly when put back to basics. Stick with it, you won't be disappointed.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 7, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I had a Boykin ruined by a Lab trainer using Lab techniques. That was a very expensive mistake. Some Boykins can take it, but in general, when young and going through the socialization process along with training, they can be a little more sensitive to strong arming than Labs are.
> 
> Boykins can be hard headed, but come around very quickly when put back to basics. Stick with it, you won't be disappointed.


What is a lab trainer and exactly what are lab techniques??


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## ngaduck (Nov 7, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> What is a lab trainer and exactly what are lab techniques??



I've got a friend that is a lab trainer at the CDC. Not sure what her techniques are and how they pertain to dog training.


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## SGADawg (Nov 7, 2013)

I trained one that was stubborn using Wolter's plan. Take him to an unfamiliar place, let him range out then call him back. If he doesn't come, hide in a thick spot. After a while he will start looking for you. Make him find you and when he does, don't scold or praise him, just say let's go and head out. It won't work with every dog but won't do any harm.


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

Ol Crooked Toe said:


> Train it like a lab and if it can't cut it try another one.





Miguel Cervantes said:


> I had a Boykin ruined by a Lab trainer using Lab techniques. That was a very expensive mistake. Some Boykins can take it, but in general, when young and going through the socialization process along with training, they can be a little more sensitive to strong arming than Labs are.
> 
> Boykins can be hard headed, but come around very quickly when put back to basics. Stick with it, you won't be disappointed.






so many people want to put dog training in a box.  You train a lab this way, train a boykin this way, train a chessie this way, Its all the same fellows.

  However, if you cant read a dog, then you are the one in the box.


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## CRP0223 (Nov 7, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I had a Boykin ruined by a Lab trainer using Lab techniques. That was a very expensive mistake. Some Boykins can take it, but in general, when young and going through the socialization process along with training, they can be a little more sensitive to strong arming than Labs are.
> 
> Boykins can be hard headed, but come around very quickly when put back to basics. Stick with it, you won't be disappointed.



What exactly is the difference between lab techniques and boykin techniques? Maybe it was just a sorry trainer with the inability to read and react to the dog at hand. From what I've seen the training programs are exactly the same across all breeds of retrievers, with the exception of minor differences to adjust for individual dog's personalities.


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## Ol Crooked Toe (Nov 7, 2013)

The techniques are the same. Train the dog. Adjustments are the same regardless of breed. I'd say the lab guy that messed up your Boykin has messed up labs.


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## grouper throat (Nov 7, 2013)

it ain't quite the rocket science you bird dog fellas want it to be. I've probably trained a dozen or more. command, tone and command, tone and then shock if not responding. I got a pup now that it took one time of being shocked and he stops and listens well, hunts from the road, and loads up in the dog box.


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

I dont understand the tone, that to me is like a warning or nagging.  If the dog needs correction, then give the correction. 

  Its like some parents I have heard threaten there children hundreds of times and the child changes his behavior for the time being, then 5 mins later they are right back to cutting up.  They know they are only going to get a warning.

someone explain the tone to me


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## BBowman (Nov 7, 2013)

Quackwacker, the scenario that you just described is how I feel. She sits "okay" and waits "okay" but not 80% of the time with either. How do you get them to want to do it every time? I'm thinking that if we can't nail down basic commands then retrieving is a lost cause.


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## BBowman (Nov 7, 2013)

She appears to be very intelligent but I think i'm locked in the box. I have read training methods, but just can't make it work with her. However, there is a spaniel training book I have that says boykins can not be trained with hard handed tactics.


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## ryano (Nov 7, 2013)

Seriously, consider sending her to a Pro.


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## Speckcaller (Nov 7, 2013)

BBowman said:


> She appears to be very intelligent but I think i'm locked in the box. I have read training methods, but just can't make it work with her. However, there is a spaniel training book I have that says boykins can not be trained with hard handed tactics.



Probably not all boykins can take tons of pressure, but neither can labs.


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## CRP0223 (Nov 7, 2013)

BBowman said:


> Quackwacker, the scenario that you just described is how I feel. She sits "okay" and waits "okay" but not 80% of the time with either. How do you get them to want to do it every time? I'm thinking that if we can't nail down basic commands then retrieving is a lost cause.



It's not about them wanting to do it, it's about them doing it because you said so.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 7, 2013)

BBowman said:


> She appears to be very intelligent but I think i'm locked in the box. I have read training methods, but just can't make it work with her. However, there is a spaniel training book I have that says boykins can not be trained with hard handed tactics.


Throw the spaniel book away. Buy Evan Graham Smartwork. Make sure you get the basics and the ecollar conditioning programs.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 7, 2013)

CRP0223 said:


> It's not about them wanting to do it, it's about them doing it because you said so.



And we have a winner!


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## Joe Overby (Nov 7, 2013)

ryano said:


> Seriously, consider sending her to a Pro.



Probably the best advice you have received, 2X...


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## BBowman (Nov 7, 2013)

Joe, I think sending her to a pro is in her best interest.  I have another question. Can she be a good family pet as well as a good hunting companion? I want to use her for mainly dove and timber ducks. Not much open water where I hunt. I do travel to S. Georgia about 2-3 times during quail season as well. Can she do all those types of hunting and stay inside as a family pet? I got her because of the Bokykin's small size and their ability to hunt.  My research also suggested that they transitioned easily between pet and hunter.


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## ngaduck (Nov 7, 2013)

As long as you keep your standards high on both sides, you shouldn't have any issues transitioning between pet and hunter.


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## Ol Crooked Toe (Nov 7, 2013)

Don't listen to the ones that say you can't have a good huntin dog if you also bring them inside and spoil them a little. That's false.


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

Yes they can be both.


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## BBowman (Nov 7, 2013)

Thank you all.  All of the advice y'all have given is very useful.  I just want the best for her and my family.  We are all so attached to her.  She is like a party on four legs.  Never a dull moment with her. Thanks again. I can tell by the responses that y'all love your dogs as much as we do. That matters to me.


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## ryano (Nov 7, 2013)

Pet who sleeps on the bed every night.







Pretty decent huntin dog too.


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

ryano said:


> Pet who sleeps on the bed every night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too Young!


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## ryano (Nov 7, 2013)

Meat dog!!!!


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 7, 2013)

BBowman said:


> Joe, I think sending her to a pro is in her best interest.  I have another question. Can she be a good family pet as well as a good hunting companion? I want to use her for mainly dove and timber ducks. Not much open water where I hunt. I do travel to S. Georgia about 2-3 times during quail season as well. Can she do all those types of hunting and stay inside as a family pet? I got her because of the Bokykin's small size and their ability to hunt.  My research also suggested that they transitioned easily between pet and hunter.


We haven't had a problem with it!!............Well the shedding may be a problem for some, but we have learned how to live with it!!


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## quackwacker (Nov 7, 2013)

RUTTNBUCK said:


> We haven't had a problem with it!!............Well the shedding may be a problem for some, but we have learned how to live with it!!



Ruttnbuck, has your wife lost her mind?  She is going to be busy next weekend for sho!   LOL


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 7, 2013)

quackwacker said:


> Ruttnbuck, has your wife lost her mind?  She is going to be busy next weekend for sho!   LOL


Mebbe.............But that is her hunt, and we will see how it all shakes out!!

She had a good day of training today!!!


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## BBowman (Nov 8, 2013)

Great looking pal you got there Ryano! Thanks for the pics.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 8, 2013)

BBowman...never said TAKE her to a pro...honestly, have a pro evaluate her and let him/her tell you what is in the dogs best interest. If you choose to go the DIY route, I recommend Smartwork.  If you need a pro in Alabama, PM me.  
Yes, your dog can...and shoukd be IMO...be both a wonderful member of the family and duckblind workhorse.  Mine run HTs, FTs, hunt anything with feathers and curl up on the couch with me.  They are my best friends.  .Just dont buy into the Boykins are different argument.  Yes, the breed as a whole may mature a little slower or be softer overall however, you have to train the dog at your side, regardless of breed, age, sex, or breeding.


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## krazybronco2 (Nov 8, 2013)

RUTTNBUCK said:


> We haven't had a problem with it!!............Well the shedding may be a problem for some, but we have learned how to live with it!!



you have a lot more hair to contend with than most of us haha


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 8, 2013)

krazybronco2 said:


> you have a lot more hair to contend with than most of us haha



Yeah The fluffy Swamp Collie tends to leave tumble weeds after a few days!!


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