# This isnt right!!!!!!!!!



## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

When hunting this afternoon just to check out a  new spot,scouting and such getting ready for a hunt in the am. Well we came out before legal shooting time and we were 400 yrds from any water ,out of waiters and standing around talking our game plan for the morn. Well we decided to check patterns on some chokes , we shot only three times and stood around for 15 to 20 mins at dark. We came out of the woods which was a 20 min ride to the gate. Well who is sitting there when we came out. Ol green pants.  He proceded to get us out "aT gun point that is because its dark. Ok i get that , three of us and one of him and dark.  Checked us and everyone was leagal. Well this is were it gets messed up. He then proceded to tell us we were hunting after leagal shooting time. We exsplained what we didand even offered to take him back to show and prove. Well it didnt matter we still got tickets for this crime that we did not do.  Im a ethical hunter and a leagal hunter. Just wondering what i can do about this. I am def. Gonna fight this ticket.  If i was in the wrong i would pay such ticket. But giving us tickets and not letting us prove what we did is "Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----". Any opinions on what i should do and can do thanks.


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## Gaducker (Jan 16, 2011)

I dont think you will get out of that one....


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## DeepweR (Jan 16, 2011)

wow....what county?


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

Walton. Why woudnt i. I did nothing wrong. Its not illigal to pattern a gun. I was 15 mins from any house and permission to be there tryed to prove my story. Were am i wrong at


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## tournament fisher (Jan 16, 2011)

that is terrible!! fight it man!!


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

Im gonna fight this. Its bad enough he didnt care if we were telling the truth or not. Plus he said when he heard us shoot it was 6 mins past time. I understand that but one wasnt hunting. Two. He didnt care he wanted to give a ticket. And three he woudnt even let us go and show what we was doing


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## quackwacker (Jan 16, 2011)

if he didnt see you then he has no proof.  Cant charge someone on assumptions.


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## Dustin Pate (Jan 16, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> I dont think you will get out of that one....



I'm thinking the same. What were you shooting at to check your pattern?

You might have been legal but probably not the best thing to be doing at that time of day dressed to duck hunt.


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## Skyjacker (Jan 16, 2011)

You should have asked him what proof he had you were hunting.  He has no proof you were hunting.  You should get out of it clean.


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## Gaducker (Jan 16, 2011)

You dont pattern your gun before sunup do you?  If an officer hears you shoot before sunup he is comin your way quickly.

You discharged your firearm after hunting hours which was not a smart thing because greenjeans hangs around just waiting to hear a gun dicharge after hours so he can write tickets for huntin after hours.


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## seeker (Jan 16, 2011)

How do you "check your pattern" in the dark?


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## Gaducker (Jan 16, 2011)

Did you just take up duck huntin recently?


I ask that because theres some things you just dont do, And discharging your firearm before or after legal light when you are in pursuit of fowl is a NO NO.   

Also they seem to be a little harder on you after light as apposed to before light.


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## WOODS N WATER (Jan 16, 2011)

i feel your pain... let us know how it goes. 99% of the time they write a ticket it sticks. I don't know what it is but it seems like they come out of the wood works during duck season. hardly ever see them any other time.


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

It wasnt fully dark at time. And we set a one liter coke up at 40 yards. Its a new gun to me. And we wasnt in duck hunting cloths i had on a tshirt and pants


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

We had been out
Of the water for atleast thirty mins before we did this.


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

Not new to hunting but im new to getting tickets for stuff i didnt do. Its not illigal to shoot a gun were we was. I stated in my first post i tried to take this guy back and show him were we shot and what we were shooting. Imo. I didnt break anylaws. Were do u find me be unlawful in this


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## DeepweR (Jan 16, 2011)

id fight it! he didnt see u huntn right? it aint against the law to shoot a gun b4 its dark. what if you said u shot at a yote when u were leaving?????????????????


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## Gaducker (Jan 16, 2011)

moondogg said:


> Not new to hunting but im new to getting tickets for stuff i didnt do. Its not illigal to shoot a gun were we was. I stated in my first post i tried to take this guy back and show him were we shot and what we were shooting. Imo. I didnt break anylaws. Were do u find me be unlawful in this



I ask that because theres some things you just dont do, And discharging your firearm before or after legal light when you are in pursuit of fowl is a NO NO.


Because you discharged your firearm after legal light, They dont play that crap.   

Did you have any birds on hand.

I would hope you can beat this but I would take bets that you wont get out of it because you were duck huunting right?


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## yousureimissed (Jan 16, 2011)

That is typical Dnr  hear a shotgun blast at dark they come running.....Shoot a rifle after dark and they go the other way. Difference between ducks and deer right there


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## DeepweR (Jan 16, 2011)

yousureimissed said:


> That is typical Dnr  hear a shotgun blast at dark they come running.....Shoot a rifle after dark and they go the other way. Difference between ducks and deer right there



yep, federal and state.


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

We didnt have a single duck. Not even a feather. Come on gaducker u tell me my property and i cant shoot on it. I did nothing wrong at all. If i have to pay this ticket its bull. I was leagal to be on property. So u tell me i cant be 400yrds from water and shoot a gun at a coke in a tree.


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## Wishin I was Fishin (Jan 16, 2011)

Wow. Seems someone's ticket writing hand was a bit itchy. I understand how it looks to him but not even letting you try to prove what you were doing is a bit much. Good luck dealing with it.


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## BOSS432 (Jan 16, 2011)

this isnt right  ..... he should have atleast went and checked your story


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## Gaducker (Jan 16, 2011)

Duck huntin and deer huntin are not the same mule.

I am just sayin, if you went huntin with a seasoned fowler and you asked him if you could shoot at a coke bottle on the way out in the eve the answer is gona be NO because the game warden may be settin up by your truck and he will give you a ticket.


Again I hope you can get out of the ticket, But I dont think you will.  Did you knock any birds down and not recover them?


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## Hunter22 (Jan 16, 2011)

Bring that one liter with you is all I can think of and tell him what you already stated that you were not in huntin clothes and everything but when it comes to waterfowl and being a federal matter they dont take thing lightly AT ALL! I want to hear the outcome after you go to court.


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## JRH (Jan 16, 2011)

He will never win this in court. I would not sweat it.


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## moondogg (Jan 16, 2011)

We went scouting and setting up for ahunt in the am which i dont think we will be doing now. Lol. And no we didnt shoot at any. Seen some but they were way to far to shoot at.  And when i say to far i mean 250 yrds away. I was with a guy that has hunted ducks since he was 12 and he is 25 now. He shot once and im sure he didnt think we would be ticketed for this. Heck. One of the guys took a pump pellet rifle and no gun just to shoot snakes and suck if we came upon one so we woudnt mess the spot up shooting our shotguns. And if u think thats funny u should have seen the gw face when he told him he had took a pellet gun and showed the pellets.


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## 3d foam killer (Jan 16, 2011)

WOODS N WATER said:


> i feel your pain... let us know how it goes. 99% of the time they write a ticket it sticks. I don't know what it is but it seems like they come out of the wood works during duck season. hardly ever see them any other time.



this is because its easy to break the law duck hunting i know because im a duck hunter and have done it unknowingly and paid the price once it dosent take much he can sit near a swamp hear gun shots after dark and charge you i saw it first hand


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## duckmaster14 (Jan 16, 2011)

suprised he didn't get you for not using steel pellets!!   

you did nothing wrong but I doubt you'll be able to get out of it. For some reason, innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to the DNR. When I was in college we did do things the wrong way hunting and lied through our teeth about to the DNR and got away with it for a little while. He ended up getting us for other crap but he couldn't for what we had done because he couldn't prove anything. So on that note, maybe you can get out of it. But either way, You did nothing illegal and I would have been pitching a :expletive: fit if he had wrote me a ticket for that.


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## bossgobbler (Jan 16, 2011)

*legal?*

Had this happen to a buddy a few years ago.  Judge asked the game warden if he could prove who pulled the trigger, what they were shooting at etc.  Bottom line, judge through out the cases because the game warden did not actually witness the pulling of the trigger, so therefore he could legally prove who was guilty or not guilty.


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## Shakey Head (Jan 17, 2011)

Good luck!  I think you stand a good chance for argument.  Not sure what the outcome is going to be, but let me know how Social Circle DNR office treats you tommorow.

They cant prove that you were hunting waterfowl after hours, discharging a firearm yes, but not  duck hunting.  The GW did not visibly catch you so a judge cannot prove you guilty on an assumption, i hope IMO.....


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## Drake1807 (Jan 17, 2011)

Good Luck! A good judge should throw this out since he was so far from y'all at the time of the shooting. That is why I alway wear running shoes after dark (lol).


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## Buck111 (Jan 17, 2011)

seeker said:


> How do you "check your pattern" in the dark?



That's the $64,000.00 question.


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## Chris 195 7/8 B&C (Jan 17, 2011)

Good luck moondogg. I have all the confidence in the world that if you stand before and respectfully explain your story that our judicial system will exonerate you.  One other thing, don't sweat all these holier-than-thou comments on your actions (or their perception of what your actions were). Seems many woody's members have gotten pretty good at judging others and offering opinions of everything except what you asked for.


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks daniel. Ill let you know how this goes tomorrow. All i know is when im wrong im wrong but when im right and u tell me im wrong. Well there will be more than just some duck feathers ruffled in the morning. I see what he has to argu about but not letting me prove my innocence.  Now thats crap. And to answer the 64,000 question. You dont. U do it right before dark. Just make sure you bring ur target with u lol.


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks chris. Some opinons i treat like water on a duck back.  They just roll right off. But i understand too that everyone has one.   Thanks guys for input


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## jero77 (Jan 17, 2011)

Take a lawyer or you are screwed ( been there done that) and from now on all you have to tell him is that you are scouting no game laws apply to scouting. (as long as you were not shooting at a duck)


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

I was with a guy that has hunted ducks since he was 12 and he is 25 now. He shot once and im sure he didnt think we would be ticketed for this.



If he did not think he could get a ticket for discharging a   firearm after hours he aint  been duck huntin very many times over the last 13 years.

Maybe you will get  a sympathetic judge, but if not just remember this episode.

This is my holier-than-thou thoughts on this subject.


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

Like i stated bud we were 400 yrds from water and in civilian cloths. But i know this is a losing battle with u bud. Thanks for looking tho. But its ok.  Went back this morning and shot my limit and my buds shot theres too. So happy hunting


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## littlerunner (Jan 17, 2011)

Not trying to be "holier-than-thou", because i too have tried to come up with a good excuse to hunt after sundown. Pay the fine and if your lame excuse is valid then feel good about yourself and consider it paying for the littering you and your friends did. Like a previous poster said get a lawyer and you may have it dismissed or found not guilty, but then you will be paying much more in attorney fees then you would be for the offense you committed.  Your first two words of the post are "When hunting", then you change and say you were not hunting. Come on Man, pay the fine and move on.


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## bbducks (Jan 17, 2011)

Im in the same boat with you i got one sat for hunting a closed wma. I thought u could duck hunt sat but it was sun that you could hunt so im stuck with a ticket. Its just so hard to fight dnr. They win most of the time. Try it and see if you can win. Cant hurt anything. I just know i cant win i was in the wrong. But on the other hand my gw was realy nice. haha


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## DUhollywood1 (Jan 17, 2011)

seeker said:


> How do you "check your pattern" in the dark?



Your obviously a pine goat hunter, If he shoot 6mins after legal shooting was up he had plenty of day light to be able to see.

Sorry to hear this. I would fight it, but don't see you coming out in the good. By fighting it though you could waste a lot of the GW time though!


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

moondogg said:


> Like i stated bud we were 400 yrds from water and in civilian cloths. But i know this is a losing battle with u bud. Thanks for looking tho. But its ok.  Went back this morning and shot my limit and my buds shot theres too. So happy hunting



               Its not me you need to convince, I am on your side I just know what you are up against. And in social circle at that.      
             You might even have a better chance if you were in a metro county with a judge who may not know game laws but in the country I would lean to the judge knowing the law.

             My name is Chris if you want to pm me with any questions.

Like another post said lawyer fees will exceed the fine.


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## emusmacker (Jan 17, 2011)

To be honest with you man, you didn't make the best decision but you can't get a ticket for patterning your gun.

I live 200 feet from our fish pond and is frequented by ducks, and many times I shoot my gun after legal hours here in my yard. I checked the laws, and it ain't illegal to shoot a gun after dark, and yes I've patterned my gun after legal light. Ai'n real hard to do. cause sun set don't mean dark. I know that's hard for some to read and understand. And yes I'm a seasoned fowler and still shoot my gun after hrs. I ran up on a squirrel hunter last season while ducvk hunting, and he was very close to water. Could he be chaerged with hunting ducks illegally. i mean it's duck season and he's shooting a gun right at dark on a WMA at small game, how does the warden know he ain't pot shooting at ducks coming to roost.  

You can pm LIBMRDUCKS and he can answer your question.  I hear he's a DNR officer.


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## BIG LAZER DEER SLAYER (Jan 17, 2011)

idiot game warden..............


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## vrooom (Jan 17, 2011)

You show up at the time it says on that ticket and I'd bet the judge will throw that out.
They don't want to waste their time on small tickets like that.
One phone call to the DAs office might do it and you can avoid having to take off work.






bbducks said:


> Im in the same boat with you i got one sat for hunting a closed wma. I thought u could duck hunt sat but it was sun that you could hunt so im stuck with a ticket. Its just so hard to fight dnr. They win most of the time. Try it and see if you can win. Cant hurt anything. I just know i cant win i was in the wrong. But on the other hand my gw was realy nice. haha



Tony and Jeff don't play do they?


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## injun joe (Jan 17, 2011)

DUhollywood1 said:


> Your obviously a pine goat hunter, If he shoot 6mins after legal shooting was up he had plenty of day light to be able to see.
> 
> Sorry to hear this. I would fight it, but don't see you coming out in the good. By fighting it though you could waste a lot of the GW time though!



X2.

If he shot 20 minutes after "legal" shooting was up he could still see a liter jug at 40 yards. If the justice system works you'll be exonerated. Good luck with that. Let us know how it turns out.


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## Public Land Prowler (Jan 17, 2011)

If you were shooting at a SQUIRREL you would have been legal..you can shoot squirrels with #2 or smaller shot,and you can shoot them with steel...You had no ducks on you..He has no proof of what you did..you can get out of it..he is bluffing..had you shot after legal hours for squirrels..you may not be able to..but then again on your own property..I am not sure if they can ticket you at all for discharging a firearm at any time that you please,so long as you don't have any critters with you when he runs up on you....


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 17, 2011)

Just wondering about the wisdom of laying out a defense, AND slamming the GW before your case is disposed of, when you are hunting 20 minutes or so from DNR HQ.


I guess the GW never checks over in this forum.


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## Public Land Prowler (Jan 17, 2011)

LOL...I am actually quite suprised the dnr was around to even try to catch him poaching...everytime I go to the river I hear roost shoots...guess some places the DNR actually gets out...I see them on check in hunts and what not,but rarley ever besides then..I know they want to be out there..I just think the office doesn't let them get out much..

BTW I was trying to help him get up a defense..just stating a fact..you can shoot squirrels with #2 or smaller shot,and with steel..and you can shoot squirrels 30 min past sunset...I just don't see how the GW could give him a ticket with him not having any  animals at all in his possesion,or watching him do it..


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## Toddmann (Jan 17, 2011)

I would probably call his immediate supervisor and discuss your issue if what you say is the absolute truth. Explain respectfully what happened and see if it can be resolved prior to the court date. Probably want help but at least you tried. You can let the Judge know in court this as well which should help your case since you went to lengths to prove your innocense. Do not attempt to come across as arrogant or try to show up the officer just simply and humbly state your case and that is all you can do. Hope things go well for you. Just remember 99 times out of 100 what you describe is not the case and to most people DNR officers this type story is usually not true. I personally know several DNR officers and they are super guys who get lied to just about everytime they are dealing with an incident so most times they are gonna write the ticket cause most of the time the hunter is guilty when duck hunters are heard firing shots after legal hours.


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## critterbait (Jan 17, 2011)

I would just pay the fine and be done with it you cause a big stink over something as small as this and they'll be looking for something else and in duck hunting it wont be hard for them ( GW )to find something.


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## Hairy Dawg (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok, here's my .02 worth. A lot of people on here seem to be judging guilty. Lets look at what laws were broken. Is it illegal to discharge a firearm after hunting hours? Is it illegal to shoot targets after legal shooting time of waterfowl ends? What if he were taking a shot at squirrels? Is it illegal to shoot a squirrel when in an area where waterfowl happen to fly?

Remember that the burden of proof is on the officer, and that the OP is innocent until proven guilty. If the ranger had found the OP in possession of ducks or went back to where the supposed hunting took place and found ducks discarded or stomped in the mud, then I believe that the charges would be incontestable, however, it seems that all he has is that he heard gunshots. If this were a jury trial, and I was a juror, then no way does this charge stick. I feel like that if the GW had wanted to solidify this charge, then he would have at least gotten the accused to take him back to where they claimed the shots were fired so that some investigation may have proved one way or the other.

I would go to the Probate judge and talk to him about this before the court date. It may decide to toss it out before it goes to court.

I am only giving opinion based on what I've read here, based on one side of the story. If there is something else that hasn't been revealed, then my position may be totally different.

Just my .02


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## JRH (Jan 17, 2011)

As I stated earlier this case will be thrown out because he has no concrete proof that you were shooting ducks,  unless you told him you were doing so. He should have gone in and watched what you were doing, searched the area for downed birds, or investigated what your claiming to be the truth.


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## critterbait (Jan 17, 2011)

come on man !! How many waterfowlers on here would pattern their shotgun next to a duck hole you were going to hunt the next day , How many would pattern it on a liter coke bottle , And if you did how many would leave it in the woods after shooting it, Come on man !!


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

I have said my peace and counted to 3,  Let us know how it turns out.


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## bbducks (Jan 17, 2011)

vrooom said:


> You show up at the time it says on that ticket and I'd bet the judge will throw that out.
> They don't want to waste their time on small tickets like that.
> One phone call to the DAs office might do it and you can avoid having to take off work.
> 
> ...



Yea tony got me good. But it was all on me that's his job and it was my fault for not reading well. If ur a hunter ur gana get one. Just kinda sucked I took my buddy for the first time over there and he was ticketed too so he probly wont be goin back


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## Drake1807 (Jan 17, 2011)

All that info makes me want to go on a "squirrel" shoot this  afternoon. Shooting them in the moon light.


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## EEFowl (Jan 17, 2011)

> Well we came out before legal shooting time



Exactly what time did legal shooting time end where you were when this happened?
When, what time, did the GW encounter you?

I have a question for the posters who are saying that scouting or target shooting is not illegal - which I agree with in general.
If you caught an unauthorized person dressed in camo and carring a firearm while on you property during hunting season would they not be hunting if they said "Oh, I'm just scouting".  If they are not hunting because of that statement then they can not be charged with hunting without permission.  Think about that one.

I suspect there is more to this story than is written in the original post.

EF


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

littlerunner said:


> Not trying to be "holier-than-thou", because i too have tried to come up with a good excuse to hunt after sundown. Pay the fine and if your lame excuse is valid then feel good about yourself and consider it paying for the littering you and your friends did. Like a previous poster said get a lawyer and you may have it dismissed or found not guilty, but then you will be paying much more in attorney fees then you would be for the offense you committed.  Your first two words of the post are "When hunting", then you change and say you were not hunting. Come on Man, pay the fine and move on.


My lame excuse. Lol. Its not a excuse its the truth. Tell u what if you got the money laying around. Ill let u pay it. Im not paying such fine for something i didnt do.  And yes i went hunting and scouting earlier that eve. But when i was patterning my gun i wasnt hunting. Note the p word bud. U mean if i hunt at 7 in the am and at 4 im in my truck driving with my gun and waiters and calls and decoys im hunting then too. And im not bashing any gw at all. All im saying is this was bad judgement  on there part to ticket me. And im not trying to concvince anyone i asked in my post what can i do about this. Maybe u just misunderstood what i put. Kinda lik the gw huh


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

Kinda feel like jesus here ya. Being bashed for the truth .There is no more to the story than i put and i stated i was a long way from water. Why would i pattern a gun in the area i was gonna hunt the next day. And ducks dont run for cover when i shoot at them when im in the water hunting. Ur saying if i shot a gun all ducks leave the area for good. Wow. Think about what u said there .... I did and im laughing


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

The gw said when he heard us shoot we were 11 mins past leagal shooting time. U do the math


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## Larry Young Jr (Jan 17, 2011)

Gw as no proof. If he did he would have done more. Most people that are breaking the law normaly pay the fine and keep breaking the law. Why didnt he write you a ticket for hunting deer out of season or for something else. because you told him your were scounting to duck hunt. How could he write the guy with the pellet rife ticket and did write him 1 for hunting without a legal weapon. Becase he had no PROOF. I would go see the DA and tell him the story. He can drop all charges. If he had proof he would have got you where the crime took place. Good luck

Good Luck and besafe
Larry


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## pasinthrough (Jan 17, 2011)

Go to court, ask for a jury trial (It will be rescheduled for a later date) and get a lawyer.  Other than that, you are taking a chance. JMO


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## jwb72 (Jan 17, 2011)

Pretty sure you won't get a jury trial for a minor offense like that.


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## nickf11 (Jan 17, 2011)

DUhollywood1 said:


> Your obviously a pine goat hunter, If he shoot 6mins after legal shooting was up he had plenty of day light to be able to see.
> 
> Sorry to hear this. I would fight it, but don't see you coming out in the good. By fighting it though you could waste a lot of the GW time though!



x2, the guy who posted what this is in refrence to must not go on too many afternoon hunts. There's hard daylight a good 35-40 mins after sunset. 

I would definately fight it man.


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## EEFowl (Jan 17, 2011)

> Pretty sure you won't get a jury trial for a minor offense like that.



If he wants one he is legally entitled to have one.

I am figuring the time myself, since moondogg will not just say what the times were.  Using the sunset calculator in the hunting regulations, 5:34 pm was sunset.  11 minutes past this is 5:45 pm when the "paterning the shotgun shooting" occured.  After the shooting stood around for 20 minutes then 20 more minutes to the gate.  So GW time should be 6:20 pm.  Those sound about right?


EF


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## teethdoc (Jan 17, 2011)

I would fight it.


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

i patterned it to a liter coke because it was close to size and it was all i could find at time... i think its a great patterering tool i def fig out what choke i needed to use .  and like i have been saying this whole time . if i was in the wrong i would pay it but . and the but is that i wasnt shooting ducks when we were shooting.the only shots that were fired were the three shots at the bottle . i called today and the person that i needed to speak with was busy so i left name and num  for him to call back.. and thanks to the guys that gave me opinons and didnt just try to crucify me  ................... happy hunting and wackem and stackem guys  thanks


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

the ticket is for 1839 hours .. dont know mil. time so what would that be


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

6:39


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## mule69 (Jan 17, 2011)

I would sleep in the street before i paid it until a judge told me i had to. I promise you i don't care what it cost me for a lawyer the DNR or county would not get it.


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## 00Beau (Jan 17, 2011)

GW should have at least checked out the story before writing the ticket!! How long would it have taken, evidentally he had time to     wait for them to come out of woods, what`s 15 more minutes. If it doesn`t check out, write ticket!!! And I am not knocking DNR, because I have had all great outcomes when I`ve come in contact with GW`s.


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## stowe (Jan 17, 2011)

You took a pellet gun to shoot snakes in 35 degree weather


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## 00Beau (Jan 17, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> 6:39



Now, that`s dark!!!


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

stowe said:


> You took a pellet gun to shoot snakes in 35 degree weather



I know, right.

Was the person packin the pellet gun under 16???


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## buckhunter3987 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think a lot of you are missing that "legal shooting hours" ends at sunset, not dark. So it is perfectly reasonable for them to have enough light to see a shot pattern after hours. 

However, I am not sure how shooting a two liter bottle will tell you anything about a shotgun pattern, and any judge who has experience with DNR cases this will not pass the sniff test. If you were just screwing around and wanted to shoot a bottle tell him that, don't try and pull the wool over his eyes with that pattern jive.


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## vowell462 (Jan 17, 2011)

If what you are telling us is true, you should be able to fight this. Good luck. Be prepared to stand your ground, because the GW will positively be ready. He has to prove youre guilty, just remember that. Even if you were guilty, he still has to prove it. Hearing a shot after dark is not enough.


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## critterbait (Jan 17, 2011)

buckhunter3987 said:


> I think a lot of you are missing that "legal shooting hours" ends at sunset, not dark. So it is perfectly reasonable for them to have enough light to see a shot pattern after hours.
> 
> However, I am not sure how shooting a two liter bottle will tell you anything about a shotgun pattern, and any judge who has experience with DNR cases this will not pass the sniff test. If you were just screwing around and wanted to shoot a bottle tell him that, don't try and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- him with that pattern jive.



X2 you cant tell anything about the pattern of a shotgun with a liter coke bottle.DNR and Judges are not as stupid as some people think.


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## critterbait (Jan 17, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> If what you are telling us is true, you should be able to fight this. Good luck. Be prepared to stand your ground, because the GW will positively be ready. He has to prove youre guilty, just remember that. Even if you were guilty, he still has to prove it. Hearing a shot after dark is not enough.



You must have never had a encounter with DNR their word is all the proof they need.If he heard shots near a duck hole , you come out of the woods later with other hunters the best thing you can do is pay the fine and smile and wave.


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## slayer1 (Jan 17, 2011)

I would take the jug to court.  The GW has to prove his case beyond a reasonable doubt.  The GW didn't see what you were shooting at and that is reasonable doubt in my opinion.


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## Public Land Prowler (Jan 17, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> 6:39


Yeah that's mighty late..no ducks flyin then..that must be when he gave you the ticket,not the time he says you shot..



Hairy Dawg said:


> Ok, here's my .02 worth. A lot of people on here seem to be judging guilty. Lets look at what laws were broken. Is it illegal to discharge a firearm after hunting hours? Is it illegal to shoot targets after legal shooting time of waterfowl ends? What if he were taking a shot at squirrels? Is it illegal to shoot a squirrel when in an area where waterfowl happen to fly?
> 
> Remember that the burden of proof is on the officer, and that the OP is innocent until proven guilty. If the ranger had found the OP in possession of ducks or went back to where the supposed hunting took place and found ducks discarded or stomped in the mud, then I believe that the charges would be incontestable, however, it seems that all he has is that he heard gunshots. If this were a jury trial, and I was a juror, then no way does this charge stick. I feel like that if the GW had wanted to solidify this charge, then he would have at least gotten the accused to take him back to where they claimed the shots were fired so that some investigation may have proved one way or the other.
> 
> ...


Yup..but if you had 1 duck with you..I'd be lighting the torches,but without a duck in your possesion,or him laying his eyes on you,there's no way...sounds like he was a WAYS off from where you were..


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## BFifer (Jan 17, 2011)

Good luck. Play it cool when you fight it and just tell them the truth. You get riled up and you've just wasted your time. If you had a duck in hand, I can see the fine; if no harvest, I just don't see why he didn't let it pass. Hope you get out of it.


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## little rascal (Jan 17, 2011)

What;s the world coming to? A guy recently shoots the DNR MECHANICAL BEAR and scares the wits out of the GW's!! He only got 2 warnings. Somebody shoots at a piece of trash and get's a ticket??????


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## Buckhustler (Jan 17, 2011)

This thread is getting reallllllllllllllyyyyyyy long..........


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## Gaducker (Jan 17, 2011)

He might have figured that since you were in there so long after the shots that you were looking for ducks you may or may not have shot.


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## moondogg (Jan 17, 2011)

little rascal said:


> What;s the world coming to? A guy recently shoots the DNR MECHANICAL BEAR and scares the wits out of the GW's!! He only got 2 warnings. Somebody shoots at a piece of trash and get's a ticket??????



Nicely put!!  Thanks for the advice guys. Nice to know there more good ol boys out there.


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## critterbait (Jan 17, 2011)

Moondogg I agree it don't seem right but hunting laws are different from civilian bylaws and the DNR is a heck of a lot different from city police or the sheriffs dept. DNR for the most part has a lot more power. I've been down the same road except they got us for shooting to early on opening day of dove season neither one of them seen a shot but heard them it didn't turn out to good for us and we had one in the group decided to fight it in court it really didn't turn out to good for him about 3 times the fees the rest of us paid. Good luck ! My advice still would be pay the fine and move on.


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## Shakey Head (Jan 17, 2011)

Moondog I back you 100%.  What you did is not a crime.  DNR wrote you a ticket for shooting waterfowl after legal shooting hours but they have no evidence that you were shooting waterfowl after legal shooting hours.  They went on an assumption of some shotgun blasts.  If it goes to court they have to prove that you were in violation of what the ticket says.  No evidence, no offense IMO.

Really I think the reason DNR wrote you a ticket was they waited for you at the gate for a while and they were probably ticked off and wanted to justify their time for waiting for yall to come out.


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## Flaustin1 (Jan 18, 2011)

We had a similar situation come up a few years back.  We were shooting a roost pond on the last day of the season.  I had an alarm set on my phone for the end of legal light.  With around 2 minutes to go a flock of geese come in and my partner across the pond wings one.  This pond is open towards the dam but is full of bull rush in the upper end. Well guess where the goose landed.  We didnt have a dog then so our only choice was to wade in after it.  It took us about 5 min to find the goose and other than the broke wing he was no worse for wear.  The guy shoots the goose to finish him off.  That was the only shot fired after legal light.  When we get to the trucks theres ol green jeans.  He goes to writing tickets all while my buddy was trying to explain the situation.  He was writing one for hunting out of season, possesion of illegally taken game etc.  He didnt wanna hear any excuses, all he knew was he heard a shot after legal light and somebody was gettin a ticket.  To make an even longer story short, my buddy went to court and fought it because if he wouldnt have shot the goose it wouldve been wanton waste.  The charges were dropped and the warden apologized.


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## emusmacker (Jan 18, 2011)

If someone is on my property without permission, they're getting a ticket regardless. It's called TRESPASSING, not scouting. I don't care if you have a gun or not, no permission=trespassing.

Even though I agree with you Moondog, you're probably goin to still have to pay. Also think it's the GW duty to gather evidence, and he didn't.  

Also, shooting at coke bottles or coke cans, doesn't matter, there's no regulations on coke products and if it your property you can pile the trash up all you want and nothing be said.


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## jmfauver (Jan 18, 2011)

moondogg said:


> When hunting this afternoon just to check out a  new spot,scouting and such getting ready for a hunt in the am. Well we came out before legal shooting time and we were 400 yrds from any water ,out of waiters and standing around talking our game plan for the morn. Well we decided to check patterns on some chokes , we shot only three times and stood around for 15 to 20 mins at dark. We came out of the woods which was a 20 min ride to the gate. Well who is sitting there when we came out. Ol green pants.  He proceded to get us out "aT gun point that is because its dark. Ok i get that , three of us and one of him and dark.  Checked us and everyone was leagal. Well this is were it gets messed up. He then proceded to tell us we were hunting after leagal shooting time. We exsplained what we didand even offered to take him back to show and prove. Well it didnt matter we still got tickets for this crime that we did not do.  Im a ethical hunter and a leagal hunter. Just wondering what i can do about this. I am def. Gonna fight this ticket.  If i was in the wrong i would pay such ticket. But giving us tickets and not letting us prove what we did is "Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----". Any opinions on what i should do and can do thanks.



The highlighted is one reason he did not allow you to show him what you were doing..

my opinion is :If you fired a shot after legal shooting hours,pay the fine,you will lose .A judge will not believe you unless you have a video proving where you were when you patterned your guns....Also be sure that all the posted info will probably be given to the judge since this is a public site....


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## Potlicker60 (Jan 18, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> I ask that because theres some things you just dont do, And discharging your firearm before or after legal light when you are in pursuit of fowl is a NO NO.
> 
> 
> Because you discharged your firearm after legal light, They dont play that crap.
> ...



He said he was patterning his shotgun...not in pursuit of fowl.  There are no legal shooting hours for patterning your shotgun...so no, NONO.  I do not understand why discharging a gun after legal duck hunting hours when you are not duck hunting is something you just don't do either.


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## Fowlplay1665 (Jan 18, 2011)

Moondogg I empathize with you in this situation but I must say that he doesn't need proof that you did anything, all he needs is probably cause.  How many murders, burglaries, and robberies are witnessed by law enforcement?  If every crime had to be witnessed nobody would ever be found guilty.  If you were hunting, you had guns, and you shot those guns then I don't see you being able to present a very good defense. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quack likes a duck, its probably a duck. And as far as not letting you show your proof, I wouldnt walk into the woods at dark by myself, with a couple of guys that I suspect of breaking the law either.  I'm just sayin...


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## moondogg (Jan 18, 2011)

I understand that to guys.and i have posted this to the site knowing this is a public site. But on the other hand i have nothing to hide either. But im sure that gw have handcuffs. Hand cuff two guys to truck take one back to be shown such bottle that was shot at.


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## vrooom (Jan 18, 2011)

Im in complete shock at how many of you have no backbone and would just roll over.


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## seminoleslayer (Jan 18, 2011)

Dude take all the evidence u can empty shells coke bottle.Should of made the gw go look at what u shot.HE WAS JUST LAZY and didn't want to be proofed wrong.I thought the gw would go to the shooting not wait if it was after hours good luck


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## critterbait (Jan 18, 2011)

Good luck with this man, weigh out your options dont pay more fighting this than the ticket would be. I hope everything works out well for you.


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## EEFowl (Jan 18, 2011)

> If someone is on my property without permission, they're getting a ticket regardless. It's called TRESPASSING, not scouting. I don't care if you have a gun or not, no permission=trespassing.


This is completly incorrect, pleaase refer to the threads on CRIMINAL TRESPASS and what that exactly is.



> Also think it's the GW duty to gather evidence, and he didn't.


You, and others, have posted this as a fact when the actual fact is you, and the others, have absolutely NO IDEA what the GW did or did not do before or after this incident.



> your property you can pile the trash up all you want and nothing be said.


This is incorrect as too.



> But im sure that gw have handcuffs. Hand cuff two guys to truck take one back to be shown such bottle that was shot at.


Moondogg, This suggestion is just plain crazy.  For one thing, I'm fairly sure that the GW would not be legally allowed to do what you just suggested, handcuff two people to a vehicle and then leave them there, by themselves, for some length of time while said GW goes of with a third person.  Secondly, if he had done what you suggested there would be a thread on this forum entitled "It's just not right!!!!!, I got handcuffed to a truck by the GW!!!!!

EF


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## Dustin Pate (Jan 18, 2011)

seminoleslayer said:


> Dude take all the evidence u can empty shells coke bottle.



Problem with that is, who is to say someone couldn't go out after the fact and shoot a coke bottle and then say here it is.
Should have made the warden call back up if need be and then make him go in the woods when it happened. Could have save a ton of trouble.

Not saying to OP would do that just a scenario.


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## moondogg (Jan 18, 2011)

Ok but on the same hand. Woudnt u want to prove ur innocence in the sit. The gw told me that he heard shots that was it and he came down the road until he seen tracks going in gate i prosume and waited. We never once denied shooting. But i felt like  he was trying to trap me into the ticket thru the whole conversation


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## Gaducker (Jan 18, 2011)

vrooom said:


> Im in complete shock at how many of you have no backbone and would just roll over.



It has nothing to do with backbone,  When you go duckhuntin you DO NOT fire your gun before or after legal light for this very reason. 

You deer hunters and bass fisherman and rabbit hunters just cant seem to wrap your minds around it can you.

If a guy is spotlightin deer and a shot goes off and some one reports the truck and the man finds you with a gun in your truck you are gettin a ticket for huntin at night,  He aint gona care if you sat up a bunch of liter coke bottels in the pasture and shot at them. He just aint gona care about it cause you discharged a firearm after hours.


SLAYER1 You of all people should know he is in the wrong just because he shot his gun, NOT because he shot a coke bottle. This ticket has nothing to do with a coke bottle.


Man I said I was through here. Yall just let it go and let him get back with us and let us know how it went.


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## The Fever (Jan 18, 2011)

The only 2 cents I will add is although in most cases where you are innocent until proven guilty, with law inforcement and tickets its almost reversed. Mainly due to the fact that we have to place more trust in those people to abide by the laws they are the enforcers. Think about this, if you are in court for murder they present facts to why you are guilty, although if you have ever gone to court over a speeding ticket you find yourself explaining to the judge why you are  innocent and the officer is wrong. Although the story sounds sketchy to me the loop hole I noticed is that the GW was not present and visably see you shoot, hence any shot could be claimed as shooting at a duck. Also keep in mind that shooting light is 30 minutes before sunrise and after sundown. I think that based on only what I have said you could get off scotch free. Although if I were a judge I would have to question why you would have a pellet gun in such cold weather, and why you took shotguns on a scouting trip that you didnt want to spook birds ( not saying you dont have the right but if im going scouting on a hole I dont have any intention of shooting at the time of scouting I leave the gun at home.) I could see the use of the bottle to see how many pellets hit your target but it would show no evidence of holes or strays outside of the bottle. Meaning, if your gun patterns to the bottom left and you pulled the shot to the top right you would hit the gun but would not see that your pattern was tight in one area nor would you see how many strays you had from your pattern. I will be pulling for you because no one needs that on their record if they are guilty. If the judge was knowledgable about hunting and the laws I could see how he may rule in the GW favor on this one. Good luck boss man.


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## Randito06 (Jan 18, 2011)

You can fight it.  He has to see you break the law to prove you were breaking it.  Been there and DONE THAT.  We got tickets at camp almost 1.5 hrs after sundown.  Greenjeans jackwad came rolling up and said he heard us shooting after hrs.  He never saw any of us nor could he prove it was us, but he gave me one anyway.  I told him where he could stick his ticket and threw it in the fire right in front of him.  I didn't pay the fine either....wasn't too hard to fight because he had no proof.  

Counties are fighting for every nickel right now and they have all law enforcement writing tickets like it's nobody's business.  Chalk this one up to Barney throwing his weight around.


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## Randito06 (Jan 18, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> It has nothing to do with backbone,  When you go duckhuntin you DO NOT fire your gun before or after legal light for this very reason.
> 
> You deer hunters and bass fisherman and rabbit hunters just cant seem to wrap your minds around it can you.
> 
> ...



It has everything to do with a coke bottle.  Those are legal to shoot 24/7.  He wasn't breaking the law.  The man supposedly did nothing wrong with what he posted.  I don't think you know what you're talking about so let it be.


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## moondogg (Jan 18, 2011)

For one the guy that had the pellet rifle didnt hunt ducks.  Second. He was the the guy looking over the property. Apparenyly some guys take life to serious and dont have fun. The pellet rifle was the butt end if alot of laughing that day and a real good time.he wasnt even gonna go with us but we were trying to maje a fellow fowler out of him and get him interested in the sport. So thats why it was brought. Maybe some guys on here take some activaties to serious. I try to have a great time everytime i go. Its not always about the hunt maybe some people like the fellowship too. Im done exsplaning my actions and reasons. U got ur way and i got mine.  Thanks for comments and thanks for opinions because i have met some great guys off this subject.


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## BoykinHunter (Jan 18, 2011)

I think you can beat it.  It will be up to the state to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, every element of the crime.  Given the circumstances and knowing only what you have stated, it doesn't appear the state could meet its burden.  Again, this is based on what you are stating.  He might have evidence you are not aware of, although you can get that during the discovery phase of your case.  I don't know that I have ever looked at the applicable statute although it should be cited on your citation.  Look there first for all of the elements.  I would also try giving the warden a call assuming the first meeting went smoothly.  A lot of times the officer will work with you, especially if you were polite during the ticket process.  

Otherwise, T it up and request a jury trial.  The DA or ADA might be reluctant to waste the taxpayers' resources on something this small.  I am also assuming you will not be in federal court.  The flip side of this is the judge hammering you if you are found guilty.  Yes, you are entitled to exercise your right to be judged by a jury of your peers but understand the judge may exercise his right to come down hard if you force the trial of something you are clearly in the wrong on.

Good Luck!


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## littlerunner (Jan 18, 2011)

Randito06 said:


> You can fight it.  He has to see you break the law to prove you were breaking it.  Been there and DONE THAT.  We got tickets at camp almost 1.5 hrs after sundown.  Greenjeans jackwad came rolling up and said he heard us shooting after hrs.  He never saw any of us nor could he prove it was us, but he gave me one anyway.  I told him where he could stick his ticket and threw it in the fire right in front of him.  I didn't pay the fine either....wasn't too hard to fight because he had no proof.
> 
> Counties are fighting for every nickel right now and they have all law enforcement writing tickets like it's nobody's business.  Chalk this one up to Barney throwing his weight around.



Now there is some sound advice to take.  You should do the same thing, Burn your ticket, with your court date, location etc, and dont pay your fine.  Post another "this isnt right" when you get out of jail for the bench warrant that is issued.   Im sorry, but this guy sounds like a jailhouse lawyer, where everyone is innocent and the Cops were just out to get them. 

Or, you could do like I said,  you could pay your fine for the offense you committed and be done with it, then go hunt legally.   Some of you are very gulible!!  Come on Man, patterning your gun at a coke bottle while at a duck roost.  "Ole green jeans" is probably still laughing about that one.


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## Dustin Pate (Jan 18, 2011)

Guys enough has been said here. We'll find out what happens when all is said and done.


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