# Young Atheists Thoughts on Unbelief



## Thanatos (Jul 10, 2013)

Great read. Very interesting and some perspectives I've seen before...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...s-lessons-for-a-stronger-christianity/276584/


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## bullethead (Jul 10, 2013)

The church is where most start to question religion. It can be due to losing a Pastor that was well liked or having a Pastor/Priest/Reverend that does not or cannot answer the hard questions. I think that is where the young people start to get away from the church, then as they get older and if they continue the quest for the truth it is easy to find the discrepancies and drive them away from religion as a whole.

I can only speak for myself here in that I wanted to find out so much that the stories in the Bible were true and that the events happened as told and that the historical accuracy would be backed up to make me believe even further that I was SURE that the more I searched into it, the more I talked to Pastors, Priests and Reverends, the more I looked through history for evidence that I would find the Bible to be infallible. 
I found just the opposite.
The more I looked the less I found to be true.
It was honestly hard to accept at first....literally years of denial. It wasn't until I could get over feeling guilty about even questioning religion that I could go in with a clear mind.
I still search for evidence of God, not evidence against. It is just hard to overlook the severe lack of evidence of any God, let alone one specific God, let alone the God of the Bible.


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## Thanatos (Jul 10, 2013)

bullethead said:


> The church is where most start to question religion. It can be due to losing a Pastor that was well liked or having a Pastor/Priest/Reverend that does not or cannot answer the hard questions. I think that is where the young people start to get away from the church, then as they get older and if they continue the quest for the truth it is easy to find the discrepancies and drive them away from religion as a whole.
> 
> I can only speak for myself here in that I wanted to find out so much that the stories in the Bible were true and that the events happened as told and that the historical accuracy would be backed up to make me believe even further that I was SURE that the more I searched into it, the more I talked to Pastors, Priests and Reverends, the more I looked through history for evidence that I would find the Bible to be infallible.
> I found just the opposite.
> ...



It is intriguing how two people can look at the knowledge about these events and the environment around us here on earth and cosmically and have 180 degrees difference of perspective on how they took in the data.


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## bullethead (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> It is intriguing how two people can look at the knowledge about these events and the environment around us here on earth and cosmically and have 180 degrees difference of perspective on how they took in the data.



Yep


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## bullethead (Jul 10, 2013)

What is your perspective about this?

http://news.yahoo.com/china-discovers-primitive-5-000-old-writing-143034872.html
Associated Press
DIDI TANG 2 hours ago

BEIJING (AP) — Archaeologists say they have discovered some of the world's oldest known primitive writing, dating back 5,000 years, in eastern China, and some of the markings etched on broken axes resemble a modern Chinese character.

The inscriptions on artifacts found south of Shanghai are about 1,400 years older than the oldest written Chinese language. Chinese scholars are divided over whether the markings are words or something simpler, but they say the finding will shed light on the origins of Chinese language and culture.

The oldest writing in the world is believed to be from Mesopotamia, dating back slightly more than 5,000 years. Chinese characters are believed to have been developed independently.

Inscriptions were found on more than 200 pieces dug out from the Neolithic-era Liangzhu relic site. The pieces are among thousands of fragments of ceramic, stone, jade, wood, ivory and bone excavated from the site between 2003 and 2006, lead archaeologist Xu Xinmin said.

The inscriptions have not been reviewed by experts outside the country, but a group of Chinese scholars on archaeology and ancient writing met last weekend in Zhejiang province to discuss the finding.

They agreed that the inscriptions are not enough to indicate a developed writing system, but Xu said they include evidence of words on two broken stone-ax pieces.

One of the pieces has six word-like shapes strung together to resemble a short sentence.

"They are different from the symbols we have seen in the past on artifacts," Xu said. "The shapes and the fact that they are in a sentence-like pattern indicate they are expressions of some meaning."

The six characters are arranged in a line, and three of them resemble the modern Chinese character for human beings. Each shape has two to five strokes.

"If five to six of them are strung together like a sentence, they are no longer symbols but words," said Cao Jinyan, a scholar on ancient writing at Hangzhou-based Zhejiang University. He said the markings should be considered hieroglyphics.

He said there are also stand-alone shapes with more strokes. "If you look at the composition, you will see they are more than symbols," Cao said.

But archaeologist Liu Zhao from Shanghai-based Fudan University warned that there was not sufficient material for any conclusion.

"I don't think they should be considered writing by the strictest definition," Liu said. "We do not have enough material to pin down the stage of those markings in the history of ancient writings."

For now, the Chinese scholars have agreed to call it primitive writing, a vague term that suggests the Liangzhu markings are somewhere between symbols and words.

The oldest known Chinese writing has been found on animal bones — known as oracle bones — dating to 3,600 years ago during the Shang dynasty.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> perspective



Yes, it is definitely amazing... but that word sums it up.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 11, 2013)

Can I ask for the chapter and verse where Peter tells you to be gentle and respectful?


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 11, 2013)

Just my take on the article - because I finally read it.

I knew the mission of my churches.
I think a church service would become superficial when the mission and message is vague. The services and bible studies I enjoyed mainly talked about the relationships. 

Respect for ministers...
It's feels odd for me.. I  have more respect for people I see being the kind of christian  I once was. I "had it right" of course. I was open to learning nand understanding new things... but I did it the right way. Although I now understand I had it ALL wrong... lol.. I still have more respect for the christians being "good christians." 

More later, lunch time..


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 11, 2013)

I embraced dis-belief around age 23. 

Unlike most of them, the internet wasn't the debil for me. 

I did not "settle for a non-belief." I definitely feel that I stopped settling for a superstitious belief.


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## Thanatos (Jul 11, 2013)

bullethead said:


> What is your perspective about this?
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/china-discovers-primitive-5-000-old-writing-143034872.html
> Associated Press
> ...



I'll refer to the good book 

Genesis 4
New International Version (NIV)
Cain and Abel

4 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.* She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.

Nod means wandering. Cain was the beginning of populating Pangaea.*


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## bullethead (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> I'll refer to the good book
> 
> Genesis 4
> New International Version (NIV)
> ...


*

Sorry I asked*


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## bullethead (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> I'll refer to the good book
> 
> Genesis 4
> New International Version (NIV)
> ...


*

The Lord had to ask where Abel was......?
The Lord had to ask what Cain has done to Abel....?
Ya think he would know that stuff being a god and all.

Pangaea was about 200-300 Million years ago........the timeline does not add up.......but then again the Bible is not a mathematical book.....*


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## drippin' rock (Jul 11, 2013)

bullethead said:


> Sorry I asked



Me too. Did I miss why the story of Cain and Abel would have anything at all to do with the referenced article?


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## drippin' rock (Jul 11, 2013)

I'll add that I don't care to hear any young person's opinion, especially about religion or the lack thereof. If I could go back to my college days and listen to myself, I would probably slap myself silly.  Not saying all young people are silly, but I do know world experience and time tend to bring idealistic thoughts and opinions to a screeching halt.


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## Thanatos (Jul 11, 2013)

bullethead said:


> The Lord had to ask where Abel was......?
> The Lord had to ask what Cain has done to Abel....?
> Ya think he would know that stuff being a god and all.
> 
> Pangaea was about 200-300 Million years ago........the timeline does not add up.......but then again the Bible is not a mathematical book.....



There are spans of time not notated specifically in the Bible. Your guess is as good as mine. Logically it makes sense for the human race to have spread when it was all one continent. 

I do not have an answer for the lack of God's omnipotence in this chapter. All I can say is that Cain did not confess to God. God knew what he had done.


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## Thanatos (Jul 11, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> Me too. Did I miss why the story of Cain and Abel would have anything at all to do with the referenced article?



I was answering an article bullet linked on this thread. He is a thread high jacking S O B


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> I was answering an article bullet linked on this thread. He is a thread high jacking S O B



Gotta crack a few eggs to go along with all the other stuff that makes an omelet.


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## Thanatos (Jul 12, 2013)

bullethead said:


> The Lord had to ask where Abel was......?
> The Lord had to ask what Cain has done to Abel....?
> Ya think he would know that stuff being a god and all.
> 
> Pangaea was about 200-300 Million years ago........the timeline does not add up.......but then again the Bible is not a mathematical book.....



I will say that the Bible's message is to be taken as a whole and not broken up into bits and pieces to truly know it's meaning. While these versus some-what contradict 20 other passages talking about God's omnipotence we must look at all the passages speaking on the subject. The same way a scientist must gather a big enough sample to conduct a scientific test objectively. Would you agree that is fair?


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 12, 2013)

I ask people questions I already know the answer to all of the time... That doesn't bother me.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanatos said:


> I will say that the Bible's message is to be taken as a whole and not broken up into bits and pieces to truly know it's meaning. While these versus some-what contradict 20 other passages talking about God's omnipotence we must look at all the passages speaking on the subject. The same way a scientist must gather a big enough sample to conduct a scientific test objectively. Would you agree that is fair?



I don't know what is fair. For this discussion it is acceptable to lump God in with scientists, in other discussions God is above scientists.
I tend to hold God(s) to God-Like standards across the board. I have found that their lack of God-like qualities is what keeps me from calling them God.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 12, 2013)

Naw, he's saying that WE have to be like scientists to decipher the code of bible...

So I would agree with him to an extent... Consistency is a key there. If you're going to talk about something unbelievable and make me assume it's a parable, don't talk about something unbelievable in the next chapter that I am expected to take literally.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2013)

TripleXBullies said:


> Naw, he's saying that WE have to be like scientists to decipher the code of bible...
> 
> So I would agree with him to an extent... Consistency is a key there. If you're going to talk about something unbelievable and make me assume it's a parable, don't talk about something unbelievable in the next chapter that I am expected to take literally.



I would be on board with that IF the Bible was the work of One author. God being the author. When you get various works by various authors that took 1500 years to assemble there is no way it all adds up as the work of One to be taken as a whole. It is no better than taking snippets from 100 outer space sci-fi books and piecing them together so that they tell one story and therefore we should look at the whole picture as proof of a civilization in a Galaxy Far Far Away.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 12, 2013)

If god is the god he claims to be, he could inspire, keep pure and compile those various works effectively. If a god did do all of that, he failed in more ways than one. 

I'm not saying some consistency in taking unbelievable things and expecting me to understand which I need to take literally and which not to would make the whole story believable... but it would help decrease the number of examples of what detract from its validity.


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