# What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit?



## pnome (Oct 4, 2011)

My sister has me reading more Tim Keller...

In his book "King's Cross" Keller makes a point that in order for love to exist in the world, God could not be Unipolar, or just one because there would be no need for love.  He says that God must be tripolar or triune so that love could exist between the members of the trinity and thus be something that could exist in our world.

But why does it have to be 3?  Why not 2?  Why couldn't it just be The Father and The Son?  In short, what is the Holy Spirit supposed to do, that either God or Jesus can't do?


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

pnome said:


> My sister has me reading more Tim Keller...
> 
> In his book "King's Cross" Keller makes a point that in order for love to exist in the world, God could not be Unipolar, or just one because there would be no need for love.  He says that God must be tripolar or triune so that love could exist between the members of the trinity and thus be something that could exist in our world.
> 
> But why does it have to be 3?  Why not 2?  Why couldn't it just be The Father and The Son?  In short, what is the Holy Spirit supposed to do, that either God or Jesus can't do?



The Holy Spirit is God and Jesus. Love is a concept that man defines, even using aspects of the devine. God being love, does not need the gift of a tripolar personality to understand justice-- However, often man does.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 4, 2011)

pnome said:


> ... God could not be Unipolar, or just one because there would be no need for love.  He says that God must be tripolar or triune so that love could exist between the members of the trinity and thus be something that could exist in our world.



I agree.  For more info on this concept, I recommend "Being as Communion" by John D. Zizioulas.  Warning:  it is not light reading.




pnome said:


> But why does it have to be 3?  Why not 2?



Benny Hinn once claimed there were nine. 




pnome said:


> ... In short, what is the Holy Spirit supposed to do ...



To dwell within the believer and guide the church into truth.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 4, 2011)

gordon 2 said:


> The Holy Spirit is God and Jesus.



No, He is the third Person of the Trinity.  Or am I misunderstanding your point?


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## JB0704 (Oct 4, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> No, He is the third Person of the Trinity.  Or am I misunderstanding your point?



The trinity being the same entity?  This is a difficult concept for me.  I asked Foreigner about this as well.

If the same, why and how did he forsake himself.  If seperate, why does it say he was the word (in the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and with God, etc.).

This is very difficult for me to grasp.


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## formula1 (Oct 4, 2011)

*Re:*

Jesus was God come in the flesh. The Holy Spirit was in Him, but since He knew His death was imminent, He also knew that the Holy Spirit would be taken away from His disciples when He left them via his death. So Jesus made a prayer and a promise (John 14) and asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit to be with those who believed in Him. God, by His power to granted His Son's request. This promise could also be referenced back to old testament prophecy in Joel 3, and Jesus was the culmination of this plan.

The Holy Spirit is called a helper, a guide into truth, a power for witnessing for Jesus, a deposit that lives in each believer as a guide to remember and live according to Christ's commands, and as confirmation that we belong to Him.

God our Father, being God, one could argue could do all things if you believe that.  But He would choose not to grant to Holy Spirit to all, but to those who would believe in His only Son, as Jesus would pay the sin debt by death that has separated us from Him (God the Father). In this way it becomes possible that the Spirit can live in all believers for the purposes described above (and perhaps even more).

I do not understand it all by any means, but I think what I have described to you, even though still quite a mystery, is enough to at least put your head around it. God bless your search!


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## Ronnie T (Oct 4, 2011)

gordon 2 said:


> The Holy Spirit is God and Jesus. Love is a concept that man defines, even using aspects of the devine. God being love, does not need the gift of a tripolar personality to understand justice-- However, often man does.



Yes.
The Holy Spirit isn't a toy God has given us.
The Holy Spirit  "is" God, doing as God defines.

John 14:   25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.

Acts 1:2
 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.

Acts 9:31
 Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

Acts 16:6
Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.

Acts 20:28
 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Luke 12:12
 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> The trinity being the same entity?  This is a difficult concept for me.  I asked Foreigner about this as well.
> 
> If the same, why and how did he forsake himself.  If seperate, why does it say he was the word (in the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and with God, etc.).
> 
> This is very difficult for me to grasp.



As a conservative christians I like to go back to the fundamentals with questions as yours.

This is why I go back to the garden of Eden...When God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were one...before free will and pride...opened the dept. of Good and Evil studies at East of Eden University.

Now about the word... I like to think that on the first day man could share "word" codes or signs, for humans ( man) it was the beginning as man--a spiritual being in relationship with the devine as opposed to the ordinary run of the mill predator doing their rounds...

The word created man and from this word man was able to sense his creator etc.... Spiritually the word was the communicator and the communication. In the beginning was the word, then languages, then codes and laws, Empires, Pharoahs, recorded history, Isreal, prophets, Peter, Paul and Mary, then Baptists, Sir Isaac Newton,...Skokes Monkey Trials...,
You, F1, and  Ronnie T etc....

Now as to foresaking Himself:

Psalm 22

(A psalm by David for the music leader. To the tune "A Deer at Dawn." )

Suffering and Praise
1My God, my God, why have you 
   deserted me? 

   Why are you so far away? 

   Won't you listen to my groans 

   and come to my rescue? 

    2I cry out day and night, 

   but you don't answer, 

   and I can never rest. 

    3Yet you are the holy God, 

   ruling from your throne 

   and praised by Israel. 

    4Our ancestors trusted you, 

   and you rescued them. 

    5When they cried out for help, 

   you saved them, 

   and you did not let them down 

   when they depended on you. 

    6But I am merely a worm, 

   far less than human, 

   and I am hated and rejected 

   by people everywhere. 

    7Everyone who sees me 

   makes fun and sneers. 

   They shake their heads, 

    8and say, 

   "Trust the LORD! 

   If you are his favorite, 

   let him protect you 

   and keep you safe." 

    9You, LORD, brought me 

   safely through birth, 

   and you protected me 

   when I was a baby 

   at my mother's breast. 

    10From the day I was born, 

   I have been in your care, 

   and from the time of my birth, 

   you have been my God. 

    11Don't stay far off 

   when I am in trouble 

   with no one to help me. 

    12Enemies are all around 

   like a herd of wild bulls. 

   Powerful bulls from Bashan [a] are everywhere. 

    13My enemies are like lions 

   roaring and attacking 

   with jaws open wide. 

    14I have no more strength 

   than a few drops of water. 

   All my bones are out of joint; 

   my heart is like melted wax. 

    15My strength has dried up 

   like a broken clay pot, 

   and my tongue sticks 

   to the roof of my mouth. 

   You, God, have left me 

   to die in the dirt. 

    16Brutal enemies attack me 

   like a pack of dogs, 

   tearing at * my hands and my feet. 

    17I can count all my bones, 

   and my enemies just stare 

   and sneer at me. 

18They took my clothes 

   and gambled for them. 

    19Don't stay far away, LORD! 

   My strength comes from you, 

   so hurry and help. 

    20Rescue me from enemy swords 

   and save me from those dogs. 

    21Don't let lions eat me. 

   You rescued me from the horns 

   of wild bulls, 

    22and when your people meet, 

   I will praise you, LORD. 

    23All who worship the LORD, 

   now praise him! 

   You belong to Jacob's family 

   and to the people of Israel, 

   so fear and honor the LORD! 

    24The LORD doesn't hate 

   or despise the helpless 

   in all of their troubles. 

   When I cried out, he listened 

   and did not turn away. 

    25When your people meet, 

   you will fill my heart 

   with your praises, LORD, 

   and everyone will see me 

   keep my promises to you. 

    26The poor will eat and be full, 

   and all who worship you 

   will be thankful 

   and live in hope. 

    27Everyone on this earth 

   will remember you, LORD. 

   People all over the world 

   will turn and worship you, 

    28because you are in control, 

   the ruler of all nations. 

    29All who are rich 

   and have more than enough 

   will bow down to you, Lord. 

   Even those who are dying 

   and almost in the grave 

   will come and bow down. 

    30In the future, everyone 

   will worship 

   and learn 

   about you, our Lord. 

    31People not yet born 

   will be told, 

   "The Lord has saved us!" 



Footnotes:a.Psalm 22:12Bashan: A land east of the Jordan River, where there were pastures suitable for raising fine cattle.
b.Psalm 22:16tearing at: One possible meaning for the difficult
-------------------------------------------
***I personally think that most likely Jesus was refering to this Psalm, but mostly he was thinking what the crowd below him was probaBly thinking and feeling...and He directed them to this prayer...as a comfort to their sorrows. For the Lord was indeed saving all mankind...as Jesus said this. The me, in why have you forsaken me, was man in general, not Jesus.

But hey I might be wrong...but I try to keep the personality of Jesus and the Gospel writers intact when I venture on these ideas. Many  times the Gospel writers and Jesus himself refer his words back to holy scripture--I don't think that "why have you foresaken me" is likely an exception. But I might be wrong. 

It is common that dying people have great conscerns, worry and empathy for the people they will leave behind... even with the belief they will all meet again.*


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## JB0704 (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok, I had always been taught that the reference to "word" was Jesus because it became man.  Never quite understood that verse, still don't think I do.......but, could the HS be a characteristic of God, or is it defined as a distinct entity from the Father?  Again, the difference has always puzzled me because I believe Jesus is clearly distinct, but part of the whole.  I have not studied the HS so much.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 4, 2011)

the dept. of Good and Evil studies at East of Eden University

I know several people who have degrees in that area of study.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> Ok, I had always been taught that the reference to "word" was Jesus because it became man.  Never quite understood that verse, still don't think I do.......but, could the HS be a characteristic of God, or is it defined as a distinct entity from the Father?  Again, the difference has always puzzled me because I believe Jesus is clearly distinct, but part of the whole.  I have not studied the HS so much.



Smart theologians probably have good answers. But perhaps you can look at it this way initially and then I'm sure you will see it everywhere in scripture and in life.

Take the Gentiles and the Jews before, during the ministry of Jesus, and after. Look at the power and spirit of God in the lives of people in these different times.

Believers depending on what times they lived in knew God for the King that set the hebrews,  "his" people free from the land of Egypte and for the prophet Moses, and the other prophets and kings that would follow, next God that ministered through his Son Jesus so that the laws and prayers of the prophets could be fulfilled and next God who grafted a new people to the tree of life and that tree of life was His spirit, which had always been--if you care to look back. And that spirit was the water and blood of his Kingdom that is, and is to come-- was and will be forever.

Perhaps this too simple, but I hope it helps you....


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## centerpin fan (Oct 4, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> The trinity being the same entity?  This is a difficult concept for me.  I asked Foreigner about this as well.
> 
> If the same, why and how did he forsake himself.  If seperate, why does it say he was the word (in the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and with God, etc.).
> 
> This is very difficult for me to grasp.



The Trinity is the Godhead:  Father, Son and Holy Spirt.  They have the same divine nature but are revealed in three Persons.  

It is a difficult concept to grasp.  His ways and nature are far above ours.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> The Trinity is the Godhead:  Father, Son and Holy Spirt.  They have the same divine nature but are revealed in three Persons.
> 
> It is a difficult concept to grasp.  His ways and nature are far above ours.



I don't think it is a difficult concept to grasp if you are willing to let scripture tell you. I think scripture tells us independently that the Father is God, that Jesus is God and that the Holy Spirit is God. It is not grouped up at the same place, but I believe that it is there.

Can perhaps find them.....


All three are the devine nature.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 4, 2011)

gordon 2 said:


> I don't think it is a difficult concept to grasp if you are willing to let scripture tell you. I think scripture tells us independently that the Father is God, that Jesus is God and that the Holy Spirit is God. It is not grouped up at the same place, but I believe that it is there.



... but at Nicea, Arius argued _from the Scriptures _that there was a time when Jesus was not God.  The church rejected his teaching, but he made a good case.  

I'm only saying that most people have difficulty conceptualizing "one God in three Persons".


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> ... but at Nicea, Arius argued _from the Scriptures _that there was a time when Jesus was not God.  The church rejected his teaching, but he made a good case.
> 
> I'm only saying that most people have difficulty conceptualizing "one God in three Persons".



And you are correct...   Very interesting about Arius...

I don't as a rule  "see" only because of scripture...just wanted to point out that it was there.


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## StriperAddict (Oct 4, 2011)

Great question.

Let's get back to purpose.

For those not knowing grace, the Holy Spirit will work to convict them of sin (not necessarily "sins" but the rule of sin in life), of (Gods) righteousness and judgement.

After Christs love and mercy make their home, the Holy Spirit works and lives IN the person to now show the righteousness of God that now is fully within the spirit of the believer, not because of good deeds, but by birthright of the redeemed.  In other words, He, the Spirit, will work to comfort the believer from the condemnation that comes from the world, the flesh and the devil. The Holy Spirit works to show us we have the righteousness of God in Christ in our inner, spiritual man...  something we can't nor didn't obtain by any means other than the Spirit's loving purpose and conviction, by the cross and resurrection of Jesus.
I'm sure many believers think they must be convicted of the power of sin in their lives.  I think the purpose of the Spirit in a believer is different, to convict one of the holiness of God within.  This is very humbling because it takes the focus off our selves as the 'savior' from sin (or wrong behavior) and puts it back on Christ.  
The difference is that instead of getting "re-saved" again and again, or put another way, like working for the grace already provided, the Holy Spirit helps us renew our minds (the real battleground) by His word and the truth of who really lives within us...  "Christ in you, the hope of glory." 
Those that are "sin sensitive", or sin/self centered will have trouble with this, as religion will step up to the plate and suggest we must add to His work in some way.  We can't.  Doing so will keep us from the peace that HE, the Spirit of truth, is willing to lavish on us.  
So without Christ, we will work to obtain an unobtainable righteousness.
With Christ, we already have the righteousness that makes all the difference in our lives, and His Spirit lives through us to demonstrate it.  (In our own humanity and weakness, I should add)

Now I'll try to bottom line it...
Got the Holy Spirit?  Got Gods peace!
No got the Spirit?  Ya got rules, religion, turmoil and no peace except what you can pull from the world.  And if fame, health and  fortune are your peace, well then you are on shaky ground.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 4, 2011)

StriperAddict said:


> Great question.
> 
> Let's get back to purpose.
> 
> ...



 Very Good explanation. Thanks.


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## The Foreigner (Oct 4, 2011)

I think we need to distinguish between what the theologians call the ontological trinity (the Trinity as it is in essence) and the economic Trinity (how the Trinity works).

In terms of their essence they are three persons in one God - not three Gods (polytehism) nor three manifestations of God (modalism). They are equally God, the same in substance, power, glory, wisdom, love, goodness righteousness etc. But the Father is not the Son, the Son not the Father, neither is the Spirit Father or Son. They are One in Godhead, yet distinct in personage.  And is the Spirit personal rather than just the life-force or will of God? Scripture affirms he is a personal being - he can be grieved (Eph 5), can be blasphemed (lk 12) and lied to (Acts 5). 

Asking the purpose of the Holy Spirit in terms of his essence is like asking the purpose of Father or Son - they simply are (I AM of OT and spoken by Christ) and are blessed and glorious in and of themselves.

In terms of their economy or work, the SPirit being the third person of the Trinity works regeneration (being born again) (see Ezek 37 and Jon 3) so that man may receive faith. Until being reborn man can not accept Christ (Jn 3, Jn 6:45 following).  He convicts of sin (jn 16:8), interceded on our behalf (Romans 8:26), enables us to die to sin and live to Righteousness (Rom 3).

Furthermore Christ tells us that the Spirit's task is to bear witness to him - so that men may see Christ in all his glory and have faith in him - hence his name the Comforter or Guide.

The Son comes to do the will of the Father (Jn 6) and the Father's revealed will is that people should receive the Son. The Spirit, if I can put it like this, is the agent by which people are enabled to receive the Son, in faith, and the agent by which we persevere in faith.

Peace.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 4, 2011)

read, The Holy Spirit

By Billy Graham...short and gave me a great understanding of who the HS is. I read it on my way back to rededication and it really gave me a pole vault into where I needed to be.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2011)

HelloPnome, You will get many answers on this. I think I will stay out of this one since my response is nothing like the rest. But compare the thought of the OT picture of God coming down to dwell in his temple.


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## Four (Oct 24, 2011)

I believe the Trinity became cannon as a result of the First Council of Nicaea, ~ 325ad. One reason for the trinity might have to do with helping convert pagans, much like the placement of christmas, or the use of the christmas tree, etc

Note that some forms of christianity don't accept the results of First Council of Nicaea, (Jehova's whitness & mormons, as well as a couple others)


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## Greaserbilly (Nov 9, 2011)

It might help to understand that the original koine Greek was PNEUMATON, meaning "breath" or "air", from which we get pneumonia, pneumatic, and the French "pneu" (tire).

The imagery/analogy was basically an active principle. Air is simply air until it is taken into the lungs, and then exhaled for another lifeform to breathe in and breathe back (animals - O2 -> CO2 : plants - CO2 -> O2). Then it becomes breath. Which can only be thought of as existing in a living being.

That makes sense to me. The active principle of God AT WORK in a LIVING BEING.


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