# 10mm guns



## AVS23 (Aug 11, 2019)

I’m thinking of acquiring a 10mm for hunting. I hand loadand no is I’ll somewhat push the load.

Can the kimber stainless ii target ls with stand  hotloaded 10mm?

If not would the Glock 40 be a better choice ?


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## AVS23 (Aug 11, 2019)

I already shoot a 45 acp 1911 so the platform is familiar.


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## Bobby Linton (Aug 11, 2019)

I have the Kimber. Had it about a year and have shot 1500 rounds of lswc.  I know because I just finished my third box of 500 Missouri bullets.  I'm sure the glock is great but you can't shoot lead without changing to an aftermarket barrel, such as a Wolf.  My carry gun is a 1911 style weapon so the kimber was an easy choice for me.  I dont think you are going to shoot enough to wear either out unless you have deep pockets and a lot of range time.(I dont know about "hot loads". I have never loaded max)


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## Lilly001 (Aug 11, 2019)

I like my G40 w/ Burris red dot on it.
I used to be, still am I guess, a 1911 fan but my G40 shoots better for me than all but a dressed 1911.


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## Tom W. (Aug 11, 2019)

The myth about shooting cast bullets in a Glock is just that, a myth. I had three, a 17, a 19 and a 30 and shot cast exclusively. No problems, no leading, just  fired them happily. Bullet fit and a good lube are the keys.

But as to the OP, you might want to check out the Ruger 1911 model in  10 mm....it looks might good and as you already have a 1911 there shouldn't be much of a learning curve.


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## Gator89 (Aug 11, 2019)

Coated bullets work in Glock barrels without leading, copper plated work also.


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## Bobby Linton (Aug 11, 2019)

I have a gift for creating loads that lead my barrel.  I kinda enjoy rapping choir boy around a brass brush and scrubbing! But in truth I don't want to perpetuate a myth about Glocks; however it is Glock that says not to shoot lead bullets in their firearms.  If it is a myth, it is a myth of their own making.


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## Tom W. (Aug 11, 2019)

That's true. But they are afraid of people using handloads, and  everyone knows handloads are bad..


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## godogs57 (Aug 11, 2019)

I shoot a Colt Delta Elite with Black Talons. They work great. Also shoot an Ed Brown Special Forces. Love that 1911 platform.


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## Jack Ryan (Aug 11, 2019)

Gator89 said:


> Coated bullets work in Glock barrels without leading, copper plated work also.


So do plain old wheel weights and tumble lubed.

Work great in the G20 and CDE both.


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## AVS23 (Aug 11, 2019)

I’ve been shooting the same kimber stainless ii since 2006. 45acp reloading for it for a few years and I can honestly say I cannot shoot Another pistol as good as that one. 

I plan to shoot a glock in about a week, I’m getting some BB loads and will borrow a neighbors pistol.

Either way I absolutely plan to put a red dot on it.


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## AVS23 (Aug 11, 2019)

Anyone care to comment on the hottest loads (10mm) you put through a specific pistol?


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## pacecars (Aug 12, 2019)

I have had 10mm in the Glock, DW, S&W 610 and 1066, EAA, RIA, Sig, Ruger, Kimber and Springfield. For hunting I would go with the 1911 platform over the Glock if for no other reason than the trigger. You might consider a DE Bruin with the 6 inch barrel. My current favorite 10mm is my Springfield Elite RO. I carry it every day and plan to use it hunting since it is scary accurate. I have been getting exceptional accuracy with the 220 gr WFNGC lead Doubletap loads


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## Lilly001 (Aug 12, 2019)

pacecars said:


> I have had 10mm in the Glock, DW, S&W 610 and 1066, EAA, RIA, Sig, Ruger, Kimber and Springfield. For hunting I would go with the 1911 platform over the Glock if for no other reason than the trigger. You might consider a DE Bruin with the 6 inch barrel. My current favorite 10mm is my Springfield Elite RO. I carry it every day and plan to use it hunting since it is scary accurate. I have been getting exceptional accuracy with the 220 gr WFNGC lead Doubletap loads


Wow. You really have a bad 10 mm habit!


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## pdsniper (Aug 12, 2019)

Glocks don't handle hot loads very well, so if your going to shoot hot loads go with a 1911 platform I shoot a STI Perfect 10 I also have 2 glock model 20 they do well with factory ammo but if you try to push them you will crack the frame


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## TomC (Aug 12, 2019)

I actually prefer hot loads through a Glock frame than a 1911 frame or large caliber wheel gun for that matter and while there are always anomalies, Glock 10mm's have a very solid track record. Owned a bunch of 10mm's. REALLY like the Kimber but my favorite is the Glock 20SF (just like the SF grip) with a 6" KKM barrel. More so than ALL the other Glock 10mm's including the long slide Glock 40 10mm, 1911 platforms and some 10mm's that cost three times what the Glock does. 1911's are pretty but guns with VERY tight tolerances sometimes lose out to the ugly ducklings in term of reliability and a KKM barrel will challenge the accuracy of any 1911 barrel. The one 10mm I would shy away from is the Colt Delta Elite. Some controversy.......just research "case support Colt Delta Elite" and you can make your own judgement.


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## TurkeyH90 (Aug 12, 2019)

Interesting, I am somewhat new to the 10mm world but have always heard the exact opposite. Essentialy that the 1911 frame can't handle the super hot loads.  I am shooting the 220 BB thru my G20 with a LW Barrell. No problems so far. I have heard from folks that put 1000s of rounds downrange every year that while shooting lead in the 9mm Glock Factory is Ok. Not to try it with a 10mms' high pressure.


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## hunter 85 (Aug 12, 2019)

From what I have heard the issue with 10mm in the Glock and even the colt delta is the unsupported barrel when firing full bore you run into over pressure issues and ruptured cases


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## frankwright (Aug 12, 2019)

I don't load what most would call hot for my G20. I load 180 gr Hornady XTP's right at 1200 fps.
They will kill a pig or a deer DRT. I use a stock Glock barrel and get multiple times reloading the brass with no bad effects.


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## AVS23 (Aug 12, 2019)

I talked to a couple gun smith friends and both recommended the glock with a fully supported barrel for hot loads. Both said the 1911 would be problematic and often experienced feed problems in the 10mm.


I shot a glock 20 today. Put a box of underwood 150g jhp, and 5 Winchester silvertips 175 (I think). 

Accuracy was good out to about 30 yards then fell off, I say due to shooter issues. It’s been 15 years since I’ve owned or shot a glock.
I enjoyed the glock and found it easy to attain point ability at close range. 
I was not very impressed with the 10mm round, I truly hope these aren’t considered hot rounds, I was anticipating something similar to lighter  power 44 mag loads. Can someone attest to where these rounds fall on the spectrum of warmth of the load?


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## pacecars (Aug 12, 2019)

Lilly001 said:


> Wow. You really have a bad 10 mm habit!



You might say that!


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## Bobby Linton (Aug 13, 2019)

AVS23 said:


> I talked to a couple gun smith friends and both recommended the glock with a fully supported barrel for hot loads. Both said the 1911 would be problematic and often experienced feed problems in the 10mm.
> 
> 
> I shot a glock 20 today. Put a box of underwood 150g jhp, and 5 Winchester silvertips 175 (I think).
> ...


It's not a 44 magnum. Compare the load data to a 357 and you will see it's not quite 357 energy levels. 357 can get another 100fps out of a 180 gn bullet. Even if you don't intend to reload the manual is a great tool.  You can have all the data with no opinion involved to evaluate a cartridge. You dont need to go hotter to hunt.  You just need the round to be effective within your effective range.  10mm is a fun club to be in, but it's not a 44 mag.


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## Bobby Linton (Aug 13, 2019)

Honestly, if you want something to rattle the roof get a S&W 500.   I shot one and it was a fine example of what smith can do. I think they put extra attention into that line. I promise you, it will make you say uncle before it does! You dont need to push the 10mm past its limits.  Just buy the gun that suits you. I understand the urge to let loose some thunder.  I shot a few 44 mag 20gn 2400 loads before I left the indoor range the other day and man, the blast was almost as big as my smile.


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

I guess I was just expecting more considering some things I’ve read online. Not trying to blow a gun up I just typically load everything on the hotter side.


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## Tom W. (Aug 13, 2019)

One of the deputies brought his 500 to the range. As it had a brake on it it wasn't bad at all to shoot, except for his wallet....?


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)




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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)




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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

Couldn’t get the last images to load correctly so it’s a thumb nail.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve read a few sources state that the 10mm can beat the 357 and compete with the 41 mag.

I didn’t mean to come across vague in regard to seemingly comparing the 10 to the 44 mag, I was only talking recoil. Glock being lighter than a revolver. I know performance wise the 10mm doesn’t match the 44 mag.


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

SW 500 is a little much for me lol although I would like to shoot one once or twice.


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## frankwright (Aug 13, 2019)

Underwood claims 1500 fps for the 150 gr but factory ammo rarely makes published data. Actual test on the Winchester shows 1142.
Both of those rounds are towards the upper end and not many go very much over it, so if that feels wimpy to you 10mm may not trip your trigger!


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

NORMA took on the commitment, to produce the 10mm Auto brass cases and 10mm Auto ammunition in the spring of 1983, to include pre production prototyping and new powder development including making the ammunition part of their regular product line. NORMA, utilized a 5” test barrel with “Power-Seal” rifling (same as length as the full size Bren Ten to test the new ammo. The tested velocity was said to be 1260 feet per second which equates to 704 foot pounds of energy in April of 1983 with a 200 grain Jacketed Truncated Cone bullet with a 37,000 CUP (copper units of pressure) for a 10 shot average. This placed the energy between the 158 grain .357 magnum and the 240 grain .44 magnum performance and nearly equal to the .41 magnum. Also the accuracy was an outstanding 0.45” at 50 yards…NORMA then developed an even faster 170 grain Jacketed Hollow Point rated at 1300 feet per second and 636 foot pounds energy, introduced at SHOT in 1985 in Atlanta, Georgia.

I clipped this from this source

https://rangehot.com/original-10mm-ammo-made-ffv-norma-ab-·s-670-40-amotfors-sweden/


Does anyone know what this norms load might have been? I find it very obtuse due to the multitude  of varying information one could find for published velocities for the 356,44,41 mag.


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

Very true frankwright. This is a habit of mine when I get interested in a round. 
I did this exact thing with the 6.5 rifle rounds and wound up running a 6.5 Swede 140g at about 2650 FPS.

It took me 8 months to decide on using the 6.5 Swede from doing research like I am with the 10mm.


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## AVS23 (Aug 13, 2019)

Info on the link lol 

Norma doesn’t look much different than the Hornady book.


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## Dub (Aug 16, 2019)

Tom W. said:


> One of the deputies brought his 500 to the range. As it had a brake on it it wasn't bad at all to shoot, except for his wallet....?




I had a 10.5" barreled S&W 500 for a few years.   It was a heavy beast, heavy barrel and had an intricate brake on the end.  

Shooting it......recoil wise.....was on par with my .44mag Redhawk with the hunting loads in each.

Shooting it......wallet wise.....wasn't fun at all.  The thing was painful financially to shoot.   If I'd been reloading at the time I would have hung onto it.


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## pdsniper (Aug 19, 2019)

What I shoot is a STI and its the gun and frame of choice with competitive shooters the are a bit different animal than a standard 1911, both my mod 20 glocks are fully built guns and I have had frames crack twice shooting max load 10 mm rounds threw them they hold up for a little while but if you shoot a lot of them threw them they cant handle it and the frame will stress crack down around the trigger guard, don't get me wrong I love glocks and I own several of them and in the 10 mm is the only one I have had that problem


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## rosewood (Aug 27, 2019)

A 1911 with ramped barrel can handle anything a Glock can and more.  I have a Para-Ordnance P16-40 with ramped 10mm barrel.  I shoot a quite hot load of 200 grain WFN out of it at about 1225 FPS.  Will kill just about anything on the planet.  Never had any feed issues in the Para.

Saw Razor Dobbs kill a Cape Buffalo with his Dan Wesson 10mm using a 200 grain (or 220 not sure) hard cast boolit.  Search for him on youtube.

Is the Kimber ramped or throated?  I do frown on any 10mm that isn't in a fully supported ramped barrel.

Brother has a Auto Ordnance 10mm that was throated.  Got it better than 20  years ago.  Had a case blow out at the base where it wasn't supported.  Ruined the mag spring and the brass.  Recently bought a benchtop mill and cut his frame for a ramped barrel.  Running like a singer now and I would put just about any 10mm load through it without a pause.

Rosewood


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## GooseGestapo (Sep 11, 2019)

APPLES TO ORANGES!!!

Am I the only one who sees the inconsistency in the 10mm vs. .357mag in the aforementioned data’s?

No mention of the barrel length from which Hornady obtained those numbers for the .357mag.

I’ve been reloading/shooting the .357mag for 50yrs. 10mm for soon to be 30yrs.

I’ve NEVER seen those velocities for barrels 6” or under. The 10mm data is from 5” barrels. Those, and higher, I saw from my S&W 1006 circa 1990-91.

I don’t have the edition of the Hornady Manual that was depicted, but I do have the 8th edition.

The 8th data for the 180gr .357 was taken from an 8”bbl Colt Python and with 12.6gr of #2400 gets 1,150fps.
Lyman #48 shows 1,412fps from a 10” bbl Contender.

Proves NOTHING in comparison to a 5” bbl 10mm.
From normal 4-6.5” barrels, the 10mm is MORE powerful than the .357, and indeed approaches .41mag levels.

Assuming we’re comparing “apples to apples”...


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## rosewood (Sep 11, 2019)

This is why I have a Chronograph.


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## Dub (Sep 13, 2019)

rosewood said:


> This is why I have a Chronograph.





Bamsucka !!!!!!!!!!!!





Can't go wrong with actual data from your own weapon.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Oct 21, 2019)

1911 for the trigger.  When you line up the sights on a nice deer, you want a crisp trigger.  Kimber will give you that.  Yes, you can make a Glock do the job, but it will never be a Kimber.


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## Robust Redhorse (Oct 22, 2019)

You really have to look around to find factory 10mm ammo loaded anywhere close to the 10mm's potential.


For some reason, most ammo manufacturer's keep the 10mm down to performing much like a 40 S&W.

Look at the ballistics for Underwood, Buffalo Bore and Double Tap compared to the ammo from better known companies and you will see more of what the 10mm is capable of.


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## rosewood (Nov 2, 2019)

Fondled a XD 10mm with 5.25"bbl yesterday.  It is quite nice, good trigger too.  Might make it to my short list in future.  Fiber optic front and bomar adjust on back.


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## Dub (Nov 3, 2019)

Years back had a G20 that was a nice performer with the ammo I was ordering from Double Tap.

Great stuff.

Got expensive to shoot.  I let the Glock go figuring I could always get another just like it someday.

Finally getting my reloading gear purchased and will be setting up soon.  10mm is one of the cartridges that interests me the most. 
I’ll be able to make hunting grade ammo for reasonable prices.

I’ve made a few decisions on which 10mm gun/s I want to start with, too. They will be 1911 models.

Really looking forward to the fun ahead.


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## GooseGestapo (Nov 3, 2019)

The reason for the 10mm being loaded tepid is due to the early Glocks.
In 1990, the 200gr max load of Acc#7 was 12.2gr for 1,200fps. I was loading exactly that in Norma brass for my S&W 1006. 
A young man I taught to shoot in early ‘80’s went to Iraq in Desert Storm. When he returned, he was cash strapped and offered to sell me his M20 Glock.

I fired 3rds. Third round blew out the magazine on the ground, and the slide release departed the frame. My right hand had powder burns. Inspection of the fired cases revealed that two of the cases had blown out in the case head area. Third had the now famous “Glock Smile”. I didn’t have a use for the gun and sold it.
The next issues of loading data from Accurate, Hornady, Speer, Hodgdons, and others had reduced 10mm data by at least 10-15%.
Glock refused to acknowledge the issue, but has subsequently changed the feed ramps and chamber cuts to better accommodate the 10mm case head design.


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## pacecars (Nov 5, 2019)

Lilly001 said:


> Wow. You really have a bad 10 mm habit!



And just because you can never have too many 10mms I am picking this one up and will use it on a pig or deer


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