# Lowrance Structure Scan or Humminbird Side Scan...let the battle begin



## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 18, 2010)

Opinions wanted:  Which is the better sonar.  Lowrance's Structure Scan or Humminbird Side Scan?  What do you think and why?


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## Cricket Chunker (Sep 18, 2010)

I've been debating this same issue since last December.  Finally made my mind up last month and will be buying an 1198 when they come out in January 2011.  Will mount this on the console on my Skeeter bay boat (ie, bass boat on steroids as I use it in GA freshwater lakes), and will be looking at probably a 898 or 998 for the bow, both set up with side imaging transducers and networked.

All of what I say below aside, I used to think the screen view on the Lowrance was a little sharper and their 2D broadband may have an edge, but with the recent firmware updates to Humminbird units, I'm not so sure anymore.

Also with HDS you buy the head and still have to shell out $600 more for the side imaging.  With Humminbird, it's all inclusive so the per boat install of a complete system is less expensive.  And from what I've read the GPS is considerably more accurate on the Humminbird (lower position error more often).

Humminbird is US made and the company is in Alabama.

I've got 4 Lowrance units on two boats now.  No problems with mine, but there are a *LOT* and I mean a lot of posts about Lowrance units having water intrusion issues.  From what I can read the Lowrance Pro Staff posting about this, the company has known since day one there were issues with seals, but instead of recalling the faulty units from the stores and fixing the issue, they let the hard working guy who saved his dimes for months to get their HDS units take the gamble on "if" it will leak.  And then when they do it is taking them weeks to months to swap them out.  They are not fixing and returning your unit, but giving you a refurbished one off their shelf.  Many people are commenting the ones they get back are obviously used and sometimes have scratches.  Then the "fixed" unit craps out and you start the same cycle again.

A lot of other issues with the push buttons sticking or craping out, cracks in cases around screws from the factory, etc...  Sounds like the quality control at the factory in Mexico could be better.  And how many GPS pucks have they changed the design on because of issues in the past 4 years?  Starting to form a pattern yet?

The other thing that I dislike about Lowrance (read this as Navico since they now own  Lowrance), is it appears they have built in profiting from obsolete units by refusing to offer any service once a warranty runs out.  They will however offer you a "upgrade" for about 2/3 to 3/4 the  cost of the newest current model (which is the HDS and takes us back to the paragraph above).  So the cycle of dependend, paying customers continues.....

Again, my units are not the newest and I have had no problems with them, but I'm not going to risk that sort of money on Lowrance again.  I'm jumping ship to Humminbird. 

Yes, there are Lowrance units out there that do not give problems, but how do you tell when you pick one off the shelf?  It's a crap shoot.  So if you have a good one pray it stays that way.

Does Humminbird have the occasional issue?  Sure, but look at the posts about how it's handled and then look at the posts about Lowrance.  Hit some of the boards and read the posts for your self and make a decision - remember it's your money and something this expensive should work, should be watertight (WTH, it's for a boat!!!! and their advertisment says it's rated that way), and should last more than 6 months before crapping out or filling with water.

Oh, and one more thought.  I have not idea how the Humminbird vs Lowrance lawsuit which Johnson Outdoors filed in January 2010 will come out.  Since the initial complaint that Lowrance had infringed on Humminbirds side imaging patent, there have been 5 more patents awarded to Johnson Outdoors (Humminbird) on side imaging and plotting of positions on side imaging charts and these have also been ammended to the lawsuit.  I don't think Lowrance/Navico has one patent on this tech they own.  So what happens "if" Johnson Outdoors (Humminbird) wins?  Will Lowrance no longer be able to support their products that infringe?  That's another consideration to take into account.


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## jafacman (Sep 19, 2010)

Lowrance HDS, I'll not try to bash the other product as it is a very good unit but Lowrance has simply got the best picture i've ever seen. 100 % digital signal from the transducer, back to the unit...No analog on this baby


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## alexmlane (Sep 19, 2010)

Humminbird for me all the way. I have had it since it came out and have never had any issues at all. I would take Lowrance over HB anyday for several reasons. The HB is easier to use, has less problems, came out with the side imaging first, is built less than 30 miles from my house and has the BEST customer service. When you shell out big bucks for these units, you want the company to support the product they are selling you. Lowrance is known for terrible customer service. I have had their units before and had nothing but problems and got no answers from customer service. HB however has ALWAYS been more than helpful. I ripped my transducer off at Eufaula one day and called HB and told them what happened and no questions asked, I had a new transducer and cable in my hands 2 days later with no questions asked. 

Here is another thing, once HB came out with the down imaging, they figured out how to modify the existing side imaging units so they could take a software upgrade and have the down imaging function. Do you know how much they charged? Nothing! Not even a dime. I would have easily paid $150-$250 but HB offered it for free. 

The last reason is because of the vast knowledge of the HB units and the information on the internet. I have read countless articles from several other forums and websites and there are a few people (mainly Triton Mike and Doug Vahrenberg) that know these units and can explain them in great detail. Good luck deciding!!


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## pbmang (Sep 19, 2010)

jafacman said:


> I'll not try to bash the other product as it is a very good unit but Lowrance has simply got the best picture i've ever seen.



I agree 110%.  To preface my opinion, here is my situation.  I currently have a 997 Humminbird, and have had it for around a year.  Before that I had the 987 Humminbird for about two years.  The 997 has functioned fine, with no issues, but the 987 was a different story.  I truly believe I had a lemon because of how many times I had to send it back.  Most times though, Humminbird was good about getting the issues resolved and the unit back to me.  I did have one issue that took a while to resolve, but I was eventually taken care of.

I also have a Lowrance 522, and have had it for about two year.  3 months ago it took a dump on me and I contacted Lowrance.  Since going to the HDS models, they offered me an opportunity to purchase an HDS 5 at a greatly reduced discount.  I plan on doing this very soon, but I have some personal issues at the moment that require a fair amount of funds, so I have to put my family before a depth finder.  With that said, I have used HDS units a good bit, and actually borrowed an HDS 7 from a friend and used it last night.  So, I do have experience with both units.

Without trying to dump on either brand, this is what my thoughts on these units are:

Humminbird:

Fantastic customer service 95% of the time.  Unfortunately I had to use it a good bit, but almost every time it was a very easy process.

They don't leak.  Lowrance had a major issue with the later model LMS's and early HDS's with water getting in and shorting out the circuit boards.  According to the internet (so it must be true  ) they have switched gasket vendors and the problem has been solved.  I know I have read less about water intrusion issues lately, but it is still a concern and an issue that few Humminbirds have.

I think the SI picture is  tad better.  In looking at the LSS vs. SI, I think the Lowrance image is just a tad too dark, and makes picking up contrasts on the bottom a tad harder.

The "Switchfire" program improved the 2d sonar a good deal.  IMO the 2d sonar performance would be something you would expect from a $200 unit, but not a $2000 one.  Before the switchfire, I was very disappointed in the sonar, but after the switchfire upgrade, I don't really consider the 2d to be something that detracts from the unit.

Humminbird is more user friendly.  The menus are very quick and easy to navigate.

The mapping seems to work just fine, and I haven't had any issues with the 997.  The only real dislike I have for Humminbird mapping is that when you are moving very slowly (like fishing offshore on the trolling motor) the directional arrow turns into a doughnut looking think, and you have to be moving about half a mile an hour to get the arrow pointing back to the direction you are going.  Normally it's not a big deal, but at night when I am fishing offshore, it can be a little annoying.

Lowrance:

A much better 2d sonar sonar picture.  For the 2d, like said above, it is a digital signal (broadband), and the best comparison I can give is like regular TV to HDTV.  Humminbird has some great images online, but watching both depthfinders during the same day, the HDS is a much better 2d sonar.

I feel the same for the DI picture as well.  Lowrance achieves it's DI picture from a transducer that was designed to do such.  Humminbird takes a portion of each SI beam and then splices the images together.  While this works, I think having a transducer that is dedicated for such an image is why the Lowrance gives you a better DI image.

I haven't experienced any mapping or GPS issues with the HDS's while using them.  However when you put a map chip in the unit, it seems like it makes the unit lag a little when you hit the buttons.  It's not a major issue, but a little frustrating sometimes.

While the Lowrance is a little harder to learn how to operate, it gives you much more options on the way to setup the unit.  You can pick exactly what data you want to be displayed, where you want it displayed and how big you want it displayed.  This can also be different on each screen.  With Humminbird you select what data you want to be displayed, and it is done so across all screens except for certain navigation.  For some reason you cannot remove your "heading" form one of the navigation fields on the Humminbird, and that is really irritating to me.  To me, it seems like the Lowrance operates more like a computer with it's menu systems, so if you use computers a bunch, you can pick up on it pretty quickly.

Customer service with Lowrance use to be TERRIBLE, but there was a huge internet revolt when they had their best customer service person quit (Linda Colt).  Since then Lowrance has made some pretty major changes (from what I have read) and the reports of their service seem to be getting much better.  I have had to call them 3 times, and never had an issue getting through, so it has been good for myself.

2 year warranty, which is the longest in the biz as far as I know, and a year longer than the Humminbirds.

The Lowrance seems to be a little better at canceling out interference on the sonar screen.  I am not sure if this is from the broadband sounder or noise filters or some other reason, but the Humminbirds seem to have considerably more interference issues. 

And finally, I think the Lowrance system of "linking" two units together works a bit better.  This one I cannot comment on from first hand experience, as I have not linked either Lowrance or Humminbird units, but I have fished with quite a few people with both (while I was fishing the FLW Tour this year).  The only time I ever saw a network issue while I was out there was when I was with a guy using Humminbirds.  For some reason the GPS would just quit working, and he would have to turn both units off and power them back up.  Throughout the day I think we did that 3 times.  He said interlink failures were pretty common, and I have read about them a good bit on the web.  However, like I said, I don't have two of either brand units linked, so I can't give a first hand account.

With all that in mind, in the future I hope to pick up a couple HDS 8's to replace what I have now.  When my 522 crapped out, I thought for quite some time on which way I wanted to go to replace it, and after looking at both for an extended time, and wading through all the sales pitches from both sides, that is where I'm at right now.  If Humminbird comes out with something new, then I have no issues with picking up another one of those.  I just personally feel like right now the Lowrance is a better unit.


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## Lanier Jim (Sep 19, 2010)

Personal preference is Lowrance - their units just put up a great picture.  But - I have heard some good things about Humminbird too.  Now here's the real problem.

I have seen both in use and up close...and unless something was wrong with the settings - the Lowrance resolution and picture is night and day.  All of my posts with sonar pics are from the Eagle Fishmark 640c...a lowrance product.  Though the Lowrance Mark and Elite series have taken it's place...the problem is those units have a 480V pixel count - mine has a 640V pixel count...which shows you a fish poot in 40 of water...it's that detailed.

I haven't seen either with the downscan or sidescan...but did use a Lowrance HD7 and 5 series not long ago...those things are awesome...and the loaded maps are good too.  Add a chip to the HD series and I'm sure it will be awesome.

Just my 2 cents -

LJ


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## Big Texun (Sep 20, 2010)

I can't compare my HDS10 w/ LSS to a Humminbird because I've never used a high end Humminbird. 

What I CAN say is that the HDS10 package is exceptionally sweet. About the only thing that could be better is scuba gear and, since that isn't very practical in the winter, I think I'll stick with Lowrance.

Its amazing.


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## firefighterfree (Sep 20, 2010)

Lowrance HDS system with structure scan.  Buy  the biggest screen you can afford


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## Chris at Tech (Sep 21, 2010)

I struggled with this decision while planning my jon boat build.

Truth be told, I ended up with the HB unit mostly because it was significantly easier to mount and deal with a single transducer on my bow-mount trolling motor.


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## pbmang (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris at Tech said:


> I struggled with this decision while planning my jon boat build.
> 
> Truth be told, I ended up with the HB unit mostly because it was significantly easier to mount and deal with a single transducer on my bow-mount trolling motor.



Granted it is not cheap but...a company called Transducer Shield and Saver makes a trolling motor bracket to fit both the LSS and puck style transducers on a trolling motor.  That makes it possible to run both on the trolling motor for people without the built in 2d sonar in the head of the trolling motor.


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## mctech (Sep 21, 2010)

my triton had lowrance never worked right.put humminbird on and have not had a problem .i will never put anything but humminbird again.


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## Robert Eidson (Sep 21, 2010)

Humminbird all the way baby.......Can't beat their side scan........


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## Bear 75 (Sep 21, 2010)

I have two SI H-birds (two different boats) I like the Lowrance digital siginal too. Lowrance customer service scares me, there has been some serious issues there. Hummingbird is by far 100% better. You can buy a SI unit take it to Eufaula and they will get in your boat and show you how to use it, features, and an exclusive of your product. That is customer service!!! 

  Had a friend buy two lowrance HD's and two weeks later while fishing Eufaula it rained a good bit. They both went out in the same hour. I hope they fixed everything as already said. 

  Hummingbird has been around longer and is not a copy from, so they know more about what is going on with SI. Lowrance has a little better pic. 


  Either way get the largest screen you can! And enjoy.


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## Mac (Sep 23, 2010)

Great information, sure makes it hard to make a decision.


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## pbmang (Sep 23, 2010)

Bear 75 said:


> Hummingbird has been around longer and is not a copy from, so they know more about what is going on with SI. Lowrance has a little better pic.
> 
> 
> Either way get the largest screen you can! And enjoy.



In all fairness, Humminbird wasn't the first to come out with SI.  Towable SI units have been around for a long time.  Humminbird did take the technology and put it into a transducer that can be mounted to a boat instead of towed behind it.  Also Humminbird did copy Lowrances Down Imaging feature.

I do agree about getting the biggest screen you can.  Once you use a big screen you won't want to use anything else.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2010)

For what it is worth if you like the "picture" on the Lowrance, Hummingbird has a setting to look like it.


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## Judge (Sep 23, 2010)

I really like my Humminbird.  I've on had it few months and still figuring out all that it does.  Nice price too, I got the 898c for $1130 to my door.


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## Mac (Sep 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> For what it is worth if you like the "picture" on the Lowrance, Hummingbird has a setting to look like it.



I did not realize the Hummingbird had HD?


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## brunofishing (Sep 23, 2010)

alexmlane said:


> Humminbird for me all the way. I have had it since it came out and have never had any issues at all. I would take Lowrance over HB anyday for several reasons. The HB is easier to use, has less problems, came out with the side imaging first, is built less than 30 miles from my house and has the BEST customer service. When you shell out big bucks for these units, you want the company to support the product they are selling you. Lowrance is known for terrible customer service. I have had their units before and had nothing but problems and got no answers from customer service. HB however has ALWAYS been more than helpful. I ripped my transducer off at Eufaula one day and called HB and told them what happened and no questions asked, I had a new transducer and cable in my hands 2 days later with no questions asked.
> 
> Here is another thing, once HB came out with the down imaging, they figured out how to modify the existing side imaging units so they could take a software upgrade and have the down imaging function. Do you know how much they charged? Nothing! Not even a dime. I would have easily paid $150-$250 but HB offered it for free.
> 
> The last reason is because of the vast knowledge of the HB units and the information on the internet. I have read countless articles from several other forums and websites and there are a few people (mainly Triton Mike and Doug Vahrenberg) that know these units and can explain them in great detail. Good luck deciding!!



I couldnt have said it better my self.


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## Trizey (Sep 23, 2010)

Read all the information you want, then flip a coin.  It's all personal preference as both units will do the intended job.  

I chose the HDS line because I like the look and images better.


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## Hyper Sniper (Sep 23, 2010)

I myself have worked with all the units in many boats, but while primarily striper fishing the lowrance is by far the best and clearest picture. Here is some screen shots as of late. The best shot is of a house I found in 60' of water on a ridge off of the Hootch and I assume was quite a house back in the day. Check out the 3D down scan of this house and then tell me what you think.


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## Spinnerbaits (Sep 23, 2010)

pbmang said:


> Also Humminbird did copy Lowrances Down Imaging feature.



FALSE..... 
Do some research...... You are probably one of those that thought because Lowrance had it available first, that meant HB copied them.... WRONG.........


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## Cricket Chunker (Sep 23, 2010)

I wish someone would do a comprehensive review.  Say take a HDS10 and a 1197 on the same boat and travel over the same structure and do a side by side comparision of the screens & features.

There was a guy in South Africa who did that on THT forum a while back, but there have been quite a few software updates and enhancements for both brands since then.  I know both have gotten better at the down scan/down imaging since.

Here is the original thread at THT but it started in January 2010, so it's not the most recent for either brand.  His signature says it all (he sells both brands and one side of the boat is wrapped Lowrance and the other Humminbird).

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/261292-downscan-v-s-downimaging.html







Right now I'm planning on putting an 1198si on my center console when they come out.  I don't have any brand of side scan right. I'm scared of Lowrances quality control and not willing to roll the dice on their waterproofness or service. Way too much money to take that sort of chance with as I'm just your average joe and not a Lowrance Prostaff who gets comp units.


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## j_seph (Sep 23, 2010)

I love my Lowrance structure scan sure can see some interesting things down there


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## Big Texun (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's a screen shot I took last week... it is what I like to see on my Lowrance:






PS: Had the sensitivity up a little too high on the sonar so, forgive the fuzziness.


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## pbmang (Sep 24, 2010)

Spinnerbaits said:


> FALSE.....
> Do some research...... You are probably one of those that thought because Lowrance had it available first, that meant HB copied them.... WRONG.........



Humminbird actually had it available first if I remember correclty, however Lowrance announced the feature first.

Can you back up the claim that Humminbird was developing it before Lowrance announced it?

Here is a copy of the H'bird press release announcing DS dated Sept. 28th: http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/246687-new-humminbird-down-imaging.html

I have found threads on forums talking about the Lowrance DI from July, so 2 months prior to Humminbird announcing they had it.



Big Texun said:


> Here's a screen shot I took last week... it is what I like to see on my Lowrance:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats pretty sweet.  On the down scan you can actually tell the head and tail of a bunch of the fish.


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## pbmang (Sep 24, 2010)

I take that back, I just checked some dates and Lowrance did have it available around October of last year and Humminbird was available in January of this year.  However, the announcements I can find still show Lowrance was talking about the feature 2 months before Humminbird.  Honestly though, why does it matter?


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## Cricket Chunker (Sep 24, 2010)

I guess it's like Ford trucks vs Chevy trucks. Some folks will come to blows defending "their" brand.

Bottom line, it's your money, just look at the features, support, etc.. and make an informed decision.


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## jafacman (Sep 25, 2010)

Well said Cricket Chuncker
Both units have some very different features that make them top notch in the industry. You must determine which features best suit your specific fishing needs... Either unit can significantly enhance your ability to locate and catch more fish.


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 25, 2010)

Man this is some tough choice. After seeing the side by side comparison on THT forum it's clear that Lowrance has a superior picture, on the flip side, I'm a little put off with all the talk about Lowrance's waterproofness (or lack there of) and poor customer service.  Talk about hard decision when you are looking to sink $1000+ into a sonar!!!!


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## Cricket Chunker (Sep 25, 2010)

Bust-A-Hawg said:


> Man this is some tough choice. After seeing the side by side comparison on THT forum it's clear that Lowrance has a superior picture, on the flip side, I'm a little put off with all the talk about Lowrance's waterproofness (or lack there of) and poor customer service.  Talk about hard decision when you are looking to sink $1000+ into a sonar!!!!



Keep in mind those *images on THT are from January and both brands have made some improvements to the software since then.* So it's not really an apples to apples comparion as I think the differences are even less now.

I do think the Lowrance has an slight edge on "sharpness" and looks more photolike than the HB, but the lowrance does not have as much contrast in the image and even though the details are a little sharper the image is softer overall. I think the difference is in the fact Lowrance has a dedicated down scan crystal in the transducer where HB is creating the down image in software by extrating the data from the side imaging crystals.  A installed setup, ready for side imaging is less expensive if you go humminbird.  With Lowrance you still have to buy the $600 side imaging module over and above the GPS/Sonar display costs.

I've just got concerns about what I'm reading about issues and how they appear to be working the business model (models are obsolete when the warranty runs out, only option for repair is to pay more money for an upgrade to next model).  And the patent lawsuit is a wildcard.  Who knows how that will turn out.

Either way that's a lot of money to spend on either brand, so choose wisely.


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 25, 2010)

I read that also about having to upgrade your Lowrance to  the next model (albeit at a "discounted/reduced" price) and the extra $600 for the side imaging is pricey considering you may already have $1200 or more in the initial unit.  I have to say right now I'm leaning more towards humminbird.  They may not have the absolute best picture but all I hear is good things about customer service and if I'm not mistaken I read on another thread or another forum site that if you take your boat over to Eufaula and put it in the water, someone from HB will even get in the boat and go out with you and give you a tutorial on your particular unit and teach you how to "read" it....free of charge.  If this is true, that's what I call good service.  Anyone else hear of this?


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## Cricket Chunker (Sep 25, 2010)

I'll ask Doug Vahrenberg at BBC.  He and I have been talking back and forth a lot lately.  He should know (either him or Triton Mike as they are the HB gurus on the boards).

I'll post back what I find out.  He's not online today, but I left him a IM.


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## Nothin but Fish (Sep 25, 2010)

*Yes...I am a Pro Staffer ...*

I am a Pro Staffer and have been for over 10 years for Lowrance. I was a Lowrance user way before I was a Pro Staffer because that was my choice. I have worked with the units on my boat and others all over the SE US both fishing as well as doing seminars and fishing events. I have captured some pretty cool screen shots including gators on the bottom lock and dam gates, tugs on the bottom, barges on the bottom,etc. You make your own decission but check these out...


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## Nothin but Fish (Sep 25, 2010)

*More Pics*

Corvette on bottom at Balus...











Coming out...






Gator on the bottom a safe distance away...












Fish attractor...6 inch PVC with 1 inch and a fish on top...






Nope not fish but bubbles....






Sailboat on bottom....


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 26, 2010)

Have to admit...that's pretty darn impressive.  Any HB experts/staffers care to post current/recent pics from HB units for comparison?


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## firefighterfree (Sep 26, 2010)

Here are some pics from Stone Mountain and Sinclair


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 26, 2010)

Nice shots firefighterfree.   The Lowrance has a great picture.  I'm still a little concerned about the customer svc.

 BTW saw your john boat mod on tinboats.net. Very nice.


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## firefighterfree (Sep 26, 2010)

@ Bust-A-Hawg thanks. I have never had a problem with customer service since I been calling starting in December 09. Everytime I call I get through within 5 minutes some people are impatient. Go HDS and dont look back thats what I did.  I have never had any major issues just minor issues cause I did not read the book. My electronics ride in a case in the truck to the lake and home the same way.  Some people are not happy with lowerance but why are they unhappy is cause of customer service or another unlying reasom just something to think about.


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Sep 26, 2010)

I currently have a "bare bones" lowrance X 50DS  that came with my Tracker boat and I have not had any problems with it (knock wood) but I'm looking to upgrade soon and add a unit to the bow as well.  I will probably take the lowrance that came on my new boat and put on my old 14' jon boat when I do some upgrading / mods on it.

I think I have figured out how I'm gonna solve my dilemma.  I will do like PBMANG and put one of each in the boat.  HB at the bow and Lowrance on the transom and if, after use I prefer one to the other I will sell the one I don't like on the GON Marketplace and buy another of whichever one I do like. 

Problem #1 solved.

Problem #2....convincing the wife to let me blow over two grand on sonars.  Don't get me wrong, she loves to fish but I'm pushing my luck a bit.


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## pbmang (Sep 26, 2010)

I know how you feel with problem #2...LOL

Here are a few Humminbird shots.  I don't claim to be an expert, but these are probably some of the best shots I've gotten with the 997 (from the few times I've actually had an SD card in it to save them).

The last few sonar shots are from a 987 and before the "Switchfire" from Humminbird.  If you compare the first few shots with the last few, you can tell a difference.  I still don't think it's quite up to the Lowrance 2d, but it's a marked improvement.

A few brush piles:

















Here is a creek channel with bridge pilings still on it:






A tree:






A bunch of bait and some fish:


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## rhbama3 (Nov 4, 2010)

Just found this thread. I'm wanting one bad, but even after watching all the you-tube and Humminbird video's i'm still worried about one thing:
I can't see FISH!!!!
I love knowing what's down there and being able to see exactly what the structure is, but in all the video's with the HB unit in use, the structure looks great, but fish or schools of fish just look like "cotton tufts" without really being able to differentiate. 
I hope to go to BP in the next few weeks and see an actual unit in demo mode and see what it looks like.


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## Louie B (Nov 4, 2010)

Here's my take......

IMO, there is LITTLE TO NO difference in quality of picture between to two.  I've seen both and have owned a 997 for 2 years and I can promise the picture with my 997 is just as clear and precise as any of the pics above.  IMO Lowrance has always had a big advantage in sonar clarity and accuracy but since the new upgrades with Switchfire HB sonar is now every bit as good as Lowrance.  Along with my 997 SI I also have 3 Lowrance units on my boat, all are LCX series units and have been great for years thankfully.    

Lowrance customer service is the WORST in the history of mankind.  IF you don't believe me wait until you have a problem and try to call or email them, you may get someone on the phone in an hour if you're lucky.  My father recently purchased an LCX-38 new with warranty.  He used the unit for about a month and Lowrance has had it the last 5 months.  The only thing they've said is they want him to upgrade for a large fee.  I know it isn't an HD unit but it was still new and had a warranty.  How would you like taking your 2 year old car in to the dealer to get it repaired and they said sorry we're not working on these anymore, you'll have to upgrade for half retail.   In my opinion that is poor business.  If one of my 3 Lowrance's go out on my boat I'll have to upgrade or go Hummingbird.    

Bottom line is, there is NO perfect unit.  All of them will have problems eventually and when they do I want someone I can call, now.  I guide and make 80% of my living fishing, I don't have the time to wait for 5 days on a unit much less 5 months.  To me customer service is as much as price.

I'm going with Hummingbird from here on.

LB


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## fisheye56 (Nov 6, 2010)

I have a question? My boat has so much turbulence at the transom that you can't mount a transducer there it must be mounted through hull style...will the side imaging work like that?? Looks like to me that would have an effect??I just got the ok from she that must be obeyed that I can get one Man I'm looking at the candy store!!!But I'm not a smart man I want the user friendly one 10-4


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Nov 7, 2010)

Lowrance makes a transducer for the structure scan specifically for thru hull mounting.  Did a google search and found them averaging about $260.00.  I did a google search and found that Humminbird also makes a transducer for the side imaging specifically for thru hull mounting. They were averaging about $220.00.  Don't know how much the thru hull mounting would negatively affect performance if at all.  Can anyone that has a thru hull mounted HB or Lowrance shed a little light on this?


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## Bear 75 (Nov 7, 2010)

rhbama3 said:


> Just found this thread. I'm wanting one bad, but even after watching all the you-tube and Humminbird video's i'm still worried about one thing:
> I can't see FISH!!!!
> I love knowing what's down there and being able to see exactly what the structure is, but in all the video's with the HB unit in use, the structure looks great, but fish or schools of fish just look like "cotton tufts" without really being able to differentiate.
> I hope to go to BP in the next few weeks and see an actual unit in demo mode and see what it looks like.



  Look at pbmang post. 

  You see the tree and you can also identify the the balls of shad. you can also identify the more isolated but still together fish. These are your larger preditor fish. It takes a little while to see them but you learn to. 

You can even see that the shad are not in a ball there strung out a little. Good bet would be it was feeding time. 

  pbmang this is a great sharp scan with the bird. Thanks for sharing.


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## pbmang (Nov 8, 2010)

pbmang said:


>





rhbama3 said:


> Just found this thread. I'm wanting one bad, but even after watching all the you-tube and Humminbird video's i'm still worried about one thing:
> I can't see FISH!!!!
> I love knowing what's down there and being able to see exactly what the structure is, but in all the video's with the HB unit in use, the structure looks great, but fish or schools of fish just look like "cotton tufts" without really being able to differentiate.
> I hope to go to BP in the next few weeks and see an actual unit in demo mode and see what it looks like.





Bear 75 said:


> Look at pbmang post.
> 
> You see the tree and you can also identify the the balls of shad. you can also identify the more isolated but still together fish. These are your larger preditor fish. It takes a little while to see them but you learn to.
> 
> ...



Like Bear said, you can see fish in a few of the screens posted above.  In the one I quoted you have both fish and shad.  On the left scan, there is a school of 8 - 10 fish.  They are the white blips on the screen.  I did a quick circle job, and circled some of the easier fish to find in red.  If you look just to their left, you will find some dark spots that line up pretty well with those fish, and that is actually the shadow they are making in the sonar beam (in yellow).  

The big "cloud" looking things are shad.  

In general, fish are going to show up as white "blips" and the shad will be the big clouds.  Granted, this is not the case 100% of the time, but it is going to be correct most of the time.

Here is another image that is FULL of fish (gar).  It is from a Lowrance, but the idea is still the same.  You can see they are all white "blips" and all the dark spots on the bottom are from the shadow of the fish in the transducer beam.


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## rhbama3 (Nov 8, 2010)

pbmang said:


> Like Bear said, you can see fish in a few of the screens posted above.  In the one I quoted you have both fish and shad.  On the left scan, there is a school of 8 - 10 fish.  They are the white blips on the screen.  I did a quick circle job, and circled some of the easier fish to find in red.  If you look just to their left, you will find some dark spots that line up pretty well with those fish, and that is actually the shadow they are making in the sonar beam (in yellow).
> 
> The big "cloud" looking things are shad.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation. 
Just one more stupid question: 
In the humminbird pic with the fish circled in yellow, are they about 70 feet to the left of the boat? It says range to left is 140 feet so would that mean structure and fish are able to be approximated by the distance on the screen?
Would fish directly under the boat be close blips split on both sides of the water column pic? Appreciate your help. This is a check i don't wanna write if i'm not 100% certain it can do everything i want. Just wish the 7 inch screen was available for the 5 inch screen price.


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## Cricket Chunker (Nov 9, 2010)

Those in the yellow circle should be about 20-25' down and 20-25' to the left of the boat suspended in the water column.  The yellow circle is actually around the shadow of the fish in the red circle to the right of the yellow circle.  It appears these fish are having a snack on the bait in the image (as are those to the right of the boat and further behind the boat path).


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## pbmang (Nov 11, 2010)

I am going to disagree with Cricket Chunker on the depth question.  In general you really can't tell how deep a fish/school of fish are in the SI screen.  It took some time, but I finally found the picture I was looking for.  

With SI, the distance being measured by the unit is the distance the object is from the transducer, not the distance from the bottom.  Sometimes you can get a general idea about what depth the fish are at, but the SI is really better at letting you know there are fish to one side or the other, and then you can mark the location and graph over it for exact depths.

At first this graphic is a little weird and hard to understand, but if you take a min. with it, it will demonstrate exactly what I am trying to explain.  If you look, there is a fish over a creek bed that is in the left beam.  When you look at the sonar return, the fish is going to show up as being "on the bottom" because the SI beam is not only returning the objects above the bottom, but you are also getting a bottom reading at that point also.






This is a real world SI shot that I found that can also help show what I am trying to say:






If you look closly about a quarter of the way from the top, right where the bottom starts, you will see a ball of shad.  If you follow the scale at the bottom (from 0 - 100 ft) it would appear that these shad are right on the bottom at about 35 - 40 feet.  A dead give away that this is not the case is the shadow that is appearing on the bottom over the 70 - 80 ft part of the scale (the dark spot).  If the fish were on the bottom, they would not be making a shadow that far away.  The shadow is really the only way to get an idea of depth, but it is still tough to put a solid number on it.  The farther away the shadow is from the object, the higher in the water the fish/object is.

With that in mind, I would make a guess of depth a little shallower than Cricket Chunker (~15ft) simply because of the distance between the shadow and the fish.  But, I think he is pretty dead on about them being about 20 - 25 feet from the left side of the boat.

Hopefully that muddies it up a bit for you


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Nov 11, 2010)

PB...your sonar lessons are right up there with Lanier Jim.  Keep teaching brother.  

Only one problem...just about the time I make up my mind to buy Lowrance HDS 7, you post great shots from HB...makes me question my decision.


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## pbmang (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks man.  I am happy to help when I can but I am far from LJ's level when it comes to sonar IMO.  SI is still a pretty new technology for most of us, and all I "know" is from what I have been able to gleen of the internet, what I read in the manual and have actually seen on the water.  I can't guarantee any of it is 100% on the money, but it sounds good has gotten me by for the last few years...haha

The last two screen shots I've posted were from Lowrances, and honestly I plan on trying to pick up an HDS as soon as $$$ allows.  To me it looks to be a slightly better product (I have a break down on the first page of my thoughts) and I like that it is a bit more customizable.  Either brand will make you happy.   Like the saying goes, "The grass is always greener on the other side," and that makes me wonder if that is why I like the HDS's so much right now, because I don't have one...haha


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Nov 11, 2010)

I was at BPS in Macon a last week and looked at the Lowrance and HB side by side.  I like em both but the Lowrance pic seems a bit more clear/sharp.  The guy in the marine electronics dept at BPS said he sells 10 Lowrance units HDS 7 & 8 for every 1 HB he sells.  If Lowrance has it's customer service act together like I have been reading...that's where my $$$ will be going.  

I've been a good boy and have been diligently working on the honey do list of "she who must be obeyed" so maybe Santa will bring me a HDS 7. 

 I woult love two (fat chance)....one for TM and one for transom but let me get one in the boat first.


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## pbmang (Nov 11, 2010)

They say it's easier to ask forgiveness than for permission...I'm just saying.

I'm not going to find out for myself though!


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## Bust-A-Hawg (Nov 11, 2010)

Yeah, "she who must be obeyed" has used that one on me before.  Seems like it may be my turn.


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