# juniper.....



## willgreer (Jan 3, 2014)

I have real nice juniper staves 
and wanted to pick a few brains
and maybe see a few pics of
ya'lls masterpieces.Please n
Thanks in advance.
BTW my current project is an
elb, juniper of course.this will
be my first elb needin a few
ideas for the my riser shape
and a little advice on maybe
reflexing it some.i know it
wont  be a pure elb but i want 
to stay pretty close.i have
over 6ft of straight  clean 
wood 2tiny pin knots.2in w
X2.3/4 thick after my ring
chase.right now it about1/4
sapwood3/4heart of course
Thanks again, James


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Just wanted to say thanks for all the
help, and advice.the replies have been so much help.i was told not to expect much
in the way of help as everyone offers but no one ever actually does.i was warned that everyone was klannish on this forum
yes i checked the other post here for info before i ask my question.i was going to give a nice stave to who helped me, i mean actually tried to help.really helped me decide not to go to gainseville rfor the ngta shoot.cant stand the thought of my sons finding more fair weather friends.i have to sayjust trolling this forum was
more help than actually asking the "gurus" who seem more interested in blowing smoke up each  others rears.ive said it before and i will say it again, this is exactly why i have such a hard time liking people.
if ya dont have a way into the group stay out huh?70+views and not one replie.thanks again for the help and may it be returned to you all 100fold.sincerly, and disappointed, james


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Btw tim flood if you  would please
pm me as pat would like to return
a bow he borrowed.an i might have a
few questions for ya if ya dont mind.
Thanks, james


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 5, 2014)

Give it a day or two for the holiday out of towners to get back, plus theirs the festival at Chehaw gettin set up and a bunch of other stuff happening this weekend.

There's some sho nuff good bowyers on here experienced in self bows and laminated lb's and the such. They'll be along soon enough to help you out. 

If you got some pics of your staves and where you're headin with them it also won't hurt nothing if you post them up on here.


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks for responding doc.maybe
someone will offer help, i hope so.
Till then i will keep going at it solo.unless
I get in touch with tim.like i say i have had few hard stares n who is that at the trad shoots i was brave enuff to go to so maybe im a little jaded.if its just me i apologize to those i may have rubbed the wrong way.sorry about that ive never been goood with people.james


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 5, 2014)

willgreer said:


> Thanks for responding doc.maybe
> someone will offer help, i hope so.
> Till then i will keep going at it solo.unless
> I get in touch with tim.like i say i have had few hard stares n who is that at the trad shoots i was brave enuff to go to so maybe im a little jaded.if its just me i apologize to those i may have rubbed the wrong way.sorry about that ive never been goood with people.james


Robin Hood one of their arrows at a trad shoot. They'll warm up to you real quick like.


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## ngabowhunter (Jan 5, 2014)

Based on your post I think it's just you. I was one of the 70 that read your post and I have never made a self bow so I didn't answer your question. If you will look at the dates and times of all the posts you will see that there is not as many folks posting on the trad forum as others. If everyone here is klannish and folks are staring you down at the shoots how in the world does anyone ever become friends on here and at the shoots? I mean everyone is new at some point. Go to a shoot and ask a group if you can shoot with them. That will give you plenty of time to talk to them and get to know them. That's what I did. I've made many friends that way. Everyone always tells me that I look mad and unapproachable. Folks don't just run up to me and hug me and say "Welcome to the shoot, please come sit and talk with me." Maybe your like me. Do as I said and don't be negative and you'll soon see how nice and generous these "klannish" and "hard staring" trad folks are.


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Maybe it like you and i said.
I have always been told i also
seem unapproachable or just
look mean.i try not to be but
my people skills suck.i know i come 
across as socially unacceptable,for that
i am not apolgetic.society is meant for
socialites, that i am not nor do i care to be.
i will admit to tryin to rattle somes cages.
the reason for that is i guess ive ready so many post that say just ask they guys here will be happy to help, and then i recheck the post and no one has helped or if they have its in a pm.i havent been on here long but it seems to be a recurring.i absolutley in no way meant to badmouth anyone here.i did mean to maaybe get some folks to realize that offering to help is not the same as helping.if i offended you i did not mean to.i also wont apoligize for being me.i am direct with my words and brutally blunt.if that not acceptable here then i guess ill just move on.we will see if anyone truly wants to help me pass these
skills on to my sons or not.if you do help i will not just take n run i like to repay those favors.God bless, james


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Ps i am as hillbilly as they
come, so believe me i
know plenty of klannish
and hardstarin folks. heck
im kin to alot of em.it was in no way
intended as a jab, poke or any way as a put down.maybe just a little proddin to open a few eyes as to why most people learn from books and trail and error.i am just like you guys uncomfortable in this modern world, and lookin for a few good friends and a little advice when i need it.hopefully i can find some of that here.


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Sorry about the bad pics, not
got a camera had to use a phone.
The last foot oof this stave that
is crooked is the extra that makes
it over 7ft.it will be removed.i have gotten
down to one ring on all of it but a foot or so.i prefer to shoot off my hand so a hill style grip is my aim.just wantin to get some ideas on length of my "riser" and a little help on my limb taper.i have made a few bows in my time just all have been cherokee style.i learned from my great grandfather as a child and my grandfathers as a teen.i have gotten the bug lately to expand my knowledge on other bow forms.i really want to learn more modern bow styles to keep my boys interested.shooting just sticks and rocks is all they know and i want it to be something they enjoy n will someday pass on to their children.btw i am 6ft with a 26 in draw and would to stay close to45-50lb range.thanks in advance, james


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## Todd Cook (Jan 5, 2014)

That is a really nice looking stave. I make some laminated bows and have made a few hickory selfbows, but have never worked with juniper or made an English longbow. I would like to try one someday. I didn't respond because I don't know enough about what you're trying to do.

Having said that, I know juniper is related to cedar, and is a soft, flexible wood. I think a true ELB should bend through the handle. The ones I've seen are 70-74" long and shot off the knuckle. Also the tiller is more circular on that style bow. As far as the riser,on my selfbows, I have a 4" handle section and 3 inches on either side of the grip area that are thicker than the rest of the bow. This keeps the handle rigid, but on an ELB I think you might want it to bend at least some through the middle. 

Most ELB's are made of yew, but I think juniper would probably work fine. Usually they are made more round in cross section instead of flat like I make Hickory flatbows.I would leave a bit of sapwood as the back ( chased to one ring) and then tiller the heartwood belly into a circular tiller. I wish I knew more.

As for NGT at Gainsville: I'm an officer in that club so I will say up front that I'm biased. However, these are some of the best folks I know, period. The same goes for SGTP and the TBG. I never have met the folks at Dublin, but I bet they're good folks too.

We welcome all who would like to come shoot traditional bows with us. As far as being" klanish", obviously some people hang out and shoot with their own group, but most people mix and mingle with whoever wants to go around the course. People are individuals, but most people I've met are genuinely open and helpful. 

We had our first shoot of the year today and considering the weather, had a great turnout. We had lots of regulars and several new folks today. One fellow came up from Laurens county for his first time today, and I believe he and his wife had a good time.

So I encourage you to come and see for yourself. First timers don't pay a dime. And if you and your son don't have anyone to shoot with, me and my son would be glad to shoot with you.


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## SELFBOW (Jan 5, 2014)

ngabowhunter said:


> Based on your post I think it's just you. I was one of the 70 that read your post and I have never made a self bow so I didn't answer your question. If you will look at the dates and times of all the posts you will see that there is not as many folks posting on the trad forum as others. If everyone here is klannish and folks are staring you down at the shoots how in the world does anyone ever become friends on here and at the shoots? I mean everyone is new at some point. Go to a shoot and ask a group if you can shoot with them. That will give you plenty of time to talk to them and get to know them. That's what I did. I've made many friends that way. Everyone always tells me that I look mad and unapproachable. Folks don't just run up to me and hug me and say "Welcome to the shoot, please come sit and talk with me." Maybe your like me. Do as I said and don't be negative and you'll soon see how nice and generous these "klannish" and "hard staring" trad folks are.


This is the first I've looked at this thread and even though I've made several selfbows I don't have any answers for you either and most of the expert bowyers don't really comment on here a lot anyways IMO. I've gotten way more help thru private messages, telephone calls and face to faces. I also think your answer can be found in many books and possibly google as well. Don't think I've seen any juniper bows either unless Hatchetbow Dan has one and he's not much into posting on here.


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## pine nut (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm in the same boat as I have never seen a yew stave or a bow except in pictures.  I have built a few out of mulberry and a few board bows from hickory.  Be glad to help you  if I could, but I've never seen a ELB either.  I know nothing about working with yew, but it seems to me I remember reading that you use the sap wood for the bow back.  Hopefully someone else who's more knowledgeable will be along.  Everything posted above about folks being gone to events is true.  More a case of bad timing than selfishness  or snobbishness on anyone's part here.  I can tell you that making a self bow of whatever wood takes a good deal of knowledge , but also patience.


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## Dennis (Jan 5, 2014)

I would love to be able to help you but I really don't know much about building bows I just shoot them. There are people around that really know what there doing but don't post much or very often. If I was looking for help I would go to a Sgta club shoot there always making bows there and they really know what there doing.


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## pine nut (Jan 5, 2014)

Dennis said:


> I would love to be able to help you but I really don't know much about building bows I just shoot them. There are people around that really know what there doing but don't post much or very often. If I was looking for help I would go to a Sgta club shoot there always making bows there and they really know what there doing.



This, and go early and take your stave!  they will help you.


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## charlie 2 arrow (Jan 5, 2014)

ngabowhunter said:


> Based on your post I think it's just you. I was one of the 70 that read your post and I have never made a self bow so I didn't answer your question. If you will look at the dates and times of all the posts you will see that there is not as many folks posting on the trad forum as others. If everyone here is klannish and folks are staring you down at the shoots how in the world does anyone ever become friends on here and at the shoots? I mean everyone is new at some point. Go to a shoot and ask a group if you can shoot with them. That will give you plenty of time to talk to them and get to know them. That's what I did. I've made many friends that way. Everyone always tells me that I look mad and unapproachable. Folks don't just run up to me and hug me and say "Welcome to the shoot, please come sit and talk with me." Maybe your like me. Do as I said and don't be negative and you'll soon see how nice and generous these "klannish" and "hard staring" trad folks are.



I've only made 2 bows myself and I looked @ your post in hopes of learning something. that being said, you'll have to put forth some effort to get help. Show up at a shoot, bring your staves and talk to people, you'll soon have plenty of advice, offers of reading material or tools to use. These are very good folks if you'll let them be, as Buckbacks said, most of the real experts are too busy doin' stuff to be looking and posting on the forum, but they go to shoots and meets. If you try a bit, instead of just posting and hoping, you'll probably get all the help you need.


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## willgreer (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks for the  takin time to answer fellas.
Its been a while since ive been to a shoot maybe ill give it a shot(pun intended).
When i do ill be sure to look you up Todd.
Thanks again


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## Willjo (Jan 7, 2014)

Not sure where here is but there is a shot Saturday. SGTP January shoot. There is some wonderful and helpful people there. They will probabley be making bows and helping people make bows. You should check the thread out and see if you are close enough to go. I only went once but it was a nice experience. There is also a thread on here with photos of them making bows for the kids.


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## willgreer (Jan 11, 2014)

*dadburnit!!!!!!!!!!*

Rip  juniper longbow
i will not be stopped!!!!


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## charlie 2 arrow (Jan 11, 2014)

Ouch! That's bad luck. Keep trying dude, I  heard it said " if you ain't breaking you ain't making"


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## willgreer (Jan 11, 2014)

I found that out the old 
fashioned way.....this is
my tenth bow failure in
just over 5weeks.
on the positive side i have been
successful with a couple of flatbows.got a few laminate
bows coming out of the forms in the 
mornin.i will be successful come
blood or blister.


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## Todd Cook (Jan 11, 2014)

Do you have any dry hickory? Hickory is pretty good to learn on because if the tiller is wrong, they may take a good bit of set but they aren't as bad to break. Charlie's right; keep after it!


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## zanzibar (Jan 17, 2014)

James,
I can't offer any help. I've made one Osage self bow with my son at the Tennessee Classic last year, but we had a lot of help. However, I was going to suggest posting to the GON Primitive Skills forum too. I think there are quite a few accomplished self bow makers on there that might miss threads on this forum. Sorry about the last Juniper bow. Good luck with your others.


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