# "I'll pray for you"



## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Without sharing personal details (a few of you know what I am talking about) for the last month, I have heard that phrase more times than I can count.  And, I have never heard more comforting words. I requested folks to pray, I was encouraged to learn that my request was finding it's way into many local prayer lists, and devotional times.  Each and every e-mail, text and phone call I recieve that includes that phrase is encouraging.   It is also humbling that somebody would take the time to "pray for me."  

My views on prayer have always been confused.  But, where I used to say "thanks" and forget about the offer, now I take time to appreciate what was just said.  Somebody has offered to petition God on my behalf.  For a believer, it's an extremely generous offer.

Now.....my question (you knew it was going somewhere):

When you pray for someone, what are your expectations?  We can see in the OT where God seems to change his mind based on petitions.  But, we also know that God has a will, and often our "will" is not lined up with his.  Many believe there is a "plan" in place which cannot be altered by people.  This plan may involve that which we are praying against.

I spoke with a friend last night who is going through a much more difficult time than I am....and he is praying for a miracle.  So, I joined him in that.  I guess my question is what effect do you pray for?  Is it intervention or obedience?  What do you believe will happen when you pray?  What are your hopes with that prayer?

Oh.....for the atheist/agnostic readers:  What is your reaction to the phrase "I'll pray for you?"  Do you find comfort in the humanity of the offer, or do you cringe at the futility of it?  

I'd like input from everybody here.  And......I'd appreciate the prayers.


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## stringmusic (Jan 11, 2013)

I try to keep expectations out of prayer to be honest with you, even though it's almost impossible to do, obviously my expectations are for the person's situation to get better, whatever that may be. But I still try to keep those expectations aside, and simply pray for a persons strength,trust,faith and relationship with God to grow through whatever they may be going through.

Sometimes, I simply pray for what God wants to happen in a certian situation, even if I don't know what that is.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> I try to keep expectations out of prayer to be honest with you....



Interesting.  I had always appraoched prayer as a "hope" thing.  Am trying to learn more about it now.  I started this thread 'cause I am a little confused on it these days.

Anyway, do you have a Biblical reason for your position, or is it based on your experience with prayer?


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> I try to keep expectations out of prayer to be honest with you, even though it's almost impossible to do, obviously my expectations are for the person's situation to get better, whatever that may be. But I still try to keep those expectations aside, and simply pray for a persons strength,trust,faith and relationship with God to grow through whatever they may be going through.
> 
> Sometimes, I simply pray for what God wants to happen in a certain situation, even if I don't know what that is.


I'm pretty much the same way.......... sometimes, I just say "Lord, you know the situation and I'm putting it in your hands"........


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Interesting.  I had always appraoched prayer as a "hope" thing.  Am trying to learn more about it now.  I started this thread 'cause I am a little confused on it these days.
> 
> Anyway, _*do you have a Biblical reason for your position, or is it based on your experience with prayer?*_


To me it pretty much goes hand in hand..........


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Keebs said:


> To me it pretty much goes hand in hand..........



Your experience with prayer lines up with the Bible?  Is that to say you have witnessed intervention, or that you do it as an act of obedience?  Just curious.

If anybody has answered prayers stories, I'd like to hear them too.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 11, 2013)

My expectation is that Romans 8:28 will happen.

I know that if my prayer is right, God will answer it.  So...we as believer's have comfort in the fact that God always answers our prayers....and if our prayers and our will is lined up with God's desires and God's will, our exact prayed for outcome will happen.

As far as how I pray...depends a little bit....but for example, a friend of mine was asking for prayer for his father-in-law that was battling some sickness.  So, prayed that the Lord would heal him if that was His will...prayed that the Lord would help the doctors...and prayed that whatever happened, this would bring the FIL and the family closer to God.

James 1 tells us about trials.  We are all going to face them...but with so much in life, it is how we respond that makes the difference.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> My expectation is that Romans 8:28 will happen.
> 
> I know that if my prayer is right, God will answer it.  So...we as believer's have comfort in the fact that God always answers our prayers....and if our prayers and our will is lined up with God's desires and God's will, our exact prayed for outcome will happen.



Thanks for jumping in, RJ.  Does this mean that prayer is not necessarily an act of intervention, if it only achieves the outcome in accordance with God's will?




rjcruiser said:


> James 2 tells us about trials.  We are all going to face them...but with so much in life, it is how we respond that makes the difference.



Agreed.


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Your experience with prayer lines up with the Bible?  Is that to say you have witnessed intervention, or that you do it as an act of obedience?  Just curious.
> 
> If anybody has answered prayers stories, I'd like to hear them too.


I "do it"..... (pray), because that is what the bible teaches us.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> If anybody has answered prayers stories, I'd like to hear them too.



Probably my toughest trial I went through was when my daughter was born about 8 years ago.  My wife went into premature labor at 26 weeks.  They tried to stop the delivery...mag sulfate etc etc...but couldn't get the contractions to stop.  Doctor told me that evening that by the next morning, I'd be a father.  I can't tell you how worried I was.  I remember being in the hospital room that night...laying on the chair that makes a feeble attempt to turn into a sleeper bed...trying to sleep, but unable to...tilting up my head every 5 minutes or so to look at the screen that shows contractions.  The screen shows 8 minutes of activity....and I knew that if there was one contraction on the screen (avg 8 contractions per hour) that meant my wife was in labor.  

Finally, about 2 AM...I realized...it was out of my control.  Sure...I had prayed already about it, but I hadn't given up control of the situation.  I prayed that the Lord's will would be done...that He would stop the contractions...stop the labor...keep my little girl in there for a couple more days so that the steroid shot they'd given my wife would have time to help develop those little lungs....give me peace etc etc...and I was finally able to go to sleep.

10 weeks later, my little girl was born...healthy.  Sure...there were a lot of ups and downs over that period.  I spent 50 nights in the hospital with my wife as every day was another day that my daughter's chances for survival and no long term issues increased.  But in the end, a miracle happened, I was stronger spiritually and ultimately, the Lord's will was accomplished.


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## stringmusic (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Interesting.  I had always appraoched prayer as a "hope" thing.  Am trying to learn more about it now.  I started this thread 'cause I am a little confused on it these days.


I don't mean to indicate that I don't have hope when I pray, because I definitely do, I just try not to expect what God is always going to do.



> Anyway, do you have a Biblical reason for your position, or is it based on your experience with prayer?



A little of both, RJ's post lines up exactly with what I think. He said it a little better than I did.


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## stringmusic (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Probably my toughest trial I went through was when my daughter was born about 8 years ago.  My wife went into premature labor at 26 weeks.  They tried to stop the delivery...mag sulfate etc etc...but couldn't get the contractions to stop.  Doctor told me that evening that by the next morning, I'd be a father.  I can't tell you how worried I was.  I remember being in the hospital room that night...laying on the chair that makes a feeble attempt to turn into a sleeper bed...trying to sleep, but unable to...tilting up my head every 5 minutes or so to look at the screen that shows contractions.  The screen shows 8 minutes of activity....and I knew that if there was one contraction on the screen (avg 8 contractions per hour) that meant my wife was in labor.
> 
> Finally, about 2 AM...I realized...it was out of my control.  Sure...I had prayed already about it, but I hadn't given up control of the situation.  I prayed that the Lord's will would be done...that He would stop the contractions...stop the labor...keep my little girl in there for a couple more days so that the steroid shot they'd given my wife would have time to help develop those little lungs....give me peace etc etc...and I was finally able to go to sleep.
> 
> 10 weeks later, my little girl was born...healthy.  Sure...there were a lot of ups and downs over that period.  I spent 50 nights in the hospital with my wife as every day was another day that my daughter's chances for survival and no long term issues increased.  But in the end, a miracle happened, I was stronger spiritually and ultimately, the Lord's will was accomplished.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Keebs said:


> I "do it"..... (pray), because that is what the bible teaches us.



Ok.  So you pray as an act of obedience, then.

Part 2: do you have expectations for the results?  As in, do you hope your obedience leads to intercession?


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## stringmusic (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> If anybody has answered prayers stories, I'd like to hear them too.



I definitely seen changes in my life due to prayer. I have a story about a time when God "spoke" to me through prayer more than ever before, it's a little long. Remind me to tell you about it when we go kill some ducks.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Probably my toughest trial I went through was when my daughter was born about 8 years ago.  My wife went into premature labor at 26 weeks.  They tried to stop the delivery...mag sulfate etc etc...but couldn't get the contractions to stop.  Doctor told me that evening that by the next morning, I'd be a father.  I can't tell you how worried I was.  I remember being in the hospital room that night...laying on the chair that makes a feeble attempt to turn into a sleeper bed...trying to sleep, but unable to...tilting up my head every 5 minutes or so to look at the screen that shows contractions.  The screen shows 8 minutes of activity....and I knew that if there was one contraction on the screen (avg 8 contractions per hour) that meant my wife was in labor.
> 
> Finally, about 2 AM...I realized...it was out of my control.  Sure...I had prayed already about it, but I hadn't given up control of the situation.  I prayed that the Lord's will would be done...that He would stop the contractions...stop the labor...keep my little girl in there for a couple more days so that the steroid shot they'd given my wife would have time to help develop those little lungs....give me peace etc etc...and I was finally able to go to sleep.
> 
> 10 weeks later, my little girl was born...healthy.  Sure...there were a lot of ups and downs over that period.  I spent 50 nights in the hospital with my wife as every day was another day that my daughter's chances for survival and no long term issues increased.  But in the end, a miracle happened, I was stronger spiritually and ultimately, the Lord's will was accomplished.



Thanks for sharing, brother.  Nothing will break a person like worrying for their kids.  Very cool to hear a positive outcome.  I did not expect the story to end with 10 more weeks 

I am a "control freak."  Giving up control is about the most impossible thing for me to do.  "Giving it to God" becomes very difficult as well.  Which is why I have always tried to pray for results rather than obedience.

Perhaps that is a growth opportunity for me.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Thanks for jumping in, RJ.  Does this mean that prayer is not necessarily an act of intervention, if it only achieves the outcome in accordance with God's will?



That's dificult to know.  On one hand, the Bible teaches that God is Omniscient...knows all things...pre-ordains things....and you know from other threads that I hold firmly to that.

But on the other hand, we're given parables in the Bible such as the one in Luke 18.



> Luke 18:1-8
> 
> [18:1] Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. [2] He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. [3] And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'
> 
> ...




Does this mean we changed God's mind?  I don't know how this is able to go hand in hand with God's pre-ordained will...His omniscience...etc etc...but, I'm comfortable that my finite mind can't grasp an infinite God.  I still believe in His predestination....and I'm faithful to pray.


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Ok.  So you pray as an act of obedience, then.
> 
> Part 2: do you have expectations for the results?  As in, do you hope your obedience leads to intercession?


Uuuummmm, no, not completely, not "out of obedience", but that is the conviction I have in my heart to do.......... I only *expect* God's will be done, I always hope for the best, but just pray for God's will to be done.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> I definitely seen changes in my life due to prayer. I have a story about a time when God "spoke" to me through prayer more than ever before, it's a little long. Remind me to tell you about it when we go kill some ducks.



Will do, and I look forward to hearing it.....while shootin' ducks!

Personally, God has never "spoke" to me.  There was a situation where I thought I got a reply of sorts, and the outcome was as requested, but over time, cycnicism and doubt have caused me to let go of that experience in search of more logical explanations.


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Does this mean we changed God's mind?  I don't know how this is able to go hand in hand with God's pre-ordained will...His omniscience...etc etc...but,_* I'm comfortable that my finite mind can't grasp an infinite God.  I still believe in His predestination....and I'm faithful to pray.*_


 Thank you! That's it!


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Keebs said:


> I only *expect* God's will be done, I always hope for the best, but just pray for God's will to be done.



  Thanks for your input.

Part 3: Have you ever had a situation where you felt your prayers affected the outcome?


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Does this mean we changed God's mind?  I don't know how this is able to go hand in hand with God's pre-ordained will...His omniscience...etc etc...but, I'm comfortable that my finite mind can't grasp an infinite God.  I still believe in His predestination....and I'm faithful to pray.



Yep......my constant struggle.  I seek reason and logic, and have difficulty "lettin go."  I am impulsive, and want things 10 minutes ago.

Your story is interesting in that you were facing an immidiate crisis, and you sought resolution through surrender to his will.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Perhaps that is a growth opportunity for me.



You'd think that after a story like that, I'd know better...but it is still something I struggle with.

Sanctification, right?


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## stringmusic (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Sanctification, right?



Slow and steady wins the race!


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Sanctification, right?



Perhaps.  All I know is that I am currently struggling to figure out prayer......to the extent that I posted a thread on the WWW trying to get input from other more "seasoned" (sanctified??) believers.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> I am a "control freak."  Giving up control is about the most impossible thing for me to do.



I would have never guessed it.

When I pray, it is God that gave me the desire to pray. It is God who answers according to his will. I can not rest in myself. True rest comes from outside of myself.

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased."


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> I would have never guessed it.





Quite obvious, isn't it 



gemcgrew said:


> When I pray, it is God that gave me the desire to pray. It is God who answers according to his will. I can not rest in myself. True rest comes from outside of myself.
> 
> "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased."



I know your beliefs line up a good bit with RJ's.  I guess in that last sentence comes fear and comfort.  Fear in that there is no "controlling" the results (prayers won't change the results the way we would like), and comfort in that there is a reason for it all, whether we like it or not.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> I know your beliefs line up a good bit with RJ's.


Rj said "and if our prayers and our will is lined up with God's desires and God's will, our exact prayed for outcome will happen."

His "if" is where I would disagree.




JB0704 said:


> I guess in that last sentence comes fear and comfort.  Fear in that there is no "controlling" the results (prayers won't change the results the way we would like), and comfort in that there is a reason for it all, whether we like it or not.


All I see is Comfort and Rest.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> I know your beliefs line up a good bit with RJ's.  I guess in that last sentence comes fear and comfort.  Fear in that there is no "controlling" the results (prayers won't change the results the way we would like), and comfort in that there is a reason for it all, whether we like it or not.



I guess it is a little coincidental...the last couple of Sunday's in Church have been in Luke and the Lord's prayer.  Interesting point was made about when we pray...who we address...."Our Father."  This is a term of endearment...Abba...loving father.  Just as you love your son soo much...so God loves us.  Remember that when you pray....it should help with the fear part.

Also, I searched www.gty.org for some stuff on prayer and found this link.  http://www.gty.org/blog/B120502

It is by Dr. MacArthur....who I think does a great job of going through 6 steps of successful prayer.  One of the steps references the above.  Might help in how to pray and why (Biblical references).

Oh..and one last thing...I post these things...and it makes me realize how little I actually do them.  It is a great reminder for personal self reflection as I type and study these things.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> All I see is Comfort and Rest.



And, I do envy that position.


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## Keebs (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Part 3: Have you ever had a situation where you felt your prayers affected the outcome?


I have had a "direct command" (In my honest opinion) happen to me.
I was wrestling with a change in my life, to move out from my parents and share rent with a girl that I knew, but didn't know that well.  I was just out of college & ready to *spread my wings*........ Mama & Daddy didn't "care for the girl" but I was ready to get out from under them.  Well, I prayed *without cease* and on the last day that I really needed to give the girl an answer, I was walking out of the office where I worked, closing it for lunch, all by myself, this *thing* weighing heavy on my heart, when as soon as I closed the locked door behind me a voice said "You're not moving out"........ not a voice I was familiar with, no one around, (I even walked around the whole outside of the building looking) but when I got in my car to leave it felt like a huge weight had lifted, I knew I wasn't moving out, I just *knew* it was the voice of God.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Keebs said:


> I have had a "direct command" (In my honest opinion) happen to me.
> I was wrestling with a change in my life, to move out from my parents and share rent with a girl that I knew, but didn't know that well.  I was just out of college & ready to *spread my wings*........ Mama & Daddy didn't "care for the girl" but I was ready to get out from under them.  Well, I prayed *without cease* and on the last day that I really needed to give the girl an answer, I was walking out of the office where I worked, closing it for lunch, all by myself, this *thing* weighing heavy on my heart, when as soon as I closed the locked door behind me a voice said "You're not moving out"........ not a voice I was familiar with, no one around, (I even walked around the whole outside of the building looking) but when I got in my car to leave it felt like a huge weight had lifted, I knew I wasn't moving out, I just *knew* it was the voice of God.



Good story.  Thanks being willing to share that.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> I guess it is a little coincidental...the last couple of Sunday's in Church have been in Luke and the Lord's prayer.  Interesting point was made about when we pray...who we address...."Our Father."  This is a term of endearment...Abba...loving father.  Just as you love your son soo much...so God loves us.  Remember that when you pray....it should help with the fear part.
> 
> Also, I searched www.gty.org for some stuff on prayer and found this link.  http://www.gty.org/blog/B120502
> 
> It is by Dr. MacArthur....who I think does a great job of going through 6 steps of successful prayer.  One of the steps references the above.  Might help in how to pray and why (Biblical references).



Thanks for the info....I'm reading through some of it now.



rjcruiser said:


> Oh..and one last thing...I post these things...and it makes me realize how little I actually do them.  It is a great reminder for personal self reflection as I type and study these things.



Sanctification?????


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

I pray for thanks, intervention, and guidance. I pray for God to change his mind. If a loved one is sick, i'm gonna pray for God to heal them. I don't see the point to pray for God's will to be done. That's gonna happen anyway. 
If I believed in pre-destiny, obedience would be the only reason I would pray. Why should I ask God to be with loved ones as they travel if it wasn't going to do any good?


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> And, I do envy that position.


"Envy" made appearance in the garden. It made way for the coming of Christ. How perfect a purpose was that?


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't see the point to pray for God's will to be done. That's gonna happen anyway.



So.....are you praying for God's will to be affected?  Wasn't "thy will be done" part of the Lord's prayer?



Artfuldodger said:


> If  believed in pre-destiny, obedience would be the only reason I would pry. Why should I ask God to be with loved one as they travel if it wasn't going to do any good?





Flag on the field.  Illegal introduction of a predes discussion.  15 yard penalty.....repeat 1st down.


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## barryl (Jan 11, 2013)

*Biblical Reason*

Answered Prayer? I am a walking miracle! If you would have known me before God saved me as opposed to now, you would know beyond a shadow of doubt that God answers prayer. We are a spoiled people wanting everything "right now". God has always been right on time! 1 John 5: 14-15 {14} And this is the confidence that we have in him,that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: {15} And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. God answers prayer, I'm livin' proof!!


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> "Envy" made appearance in the garden. It made way for the coming of Christ. How perfect a purpose was that?



Hmmmmm.....never looked at it like that.  But, it also necessitated the coming of Christ.  Soemthing to think on, for sure.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> But, it also necessitated the coming of Christ.


How is that different from what I said?


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> How is that different from what I said?



It seems one way of saying it is much more positive than the other.  Yes, it made way for Christ and made redemption possible (positive), but Christ's sacrifice is not needed without it (negative).

I dunno.  I guess it's two ways of lookin' at it.  One considers the "big picture," while the other focuses on the short term negatives.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

I have a strange view on prayer. I see God as a great Father. Would your father withold anything from you because others have not prayed on your behalf. I say no. But the bible has conflicting information on this. It says your Father knows what you need before you ask him. And it says to seek the kingdom first... Elsewhere we see the parable about the persistant widow and how she got justice by not giving up in prayer. Since we have a conflict, you can deduce what Paul believed about prayer by observing his prayers. He believed that good health might be granted through prayer and many other things can lead us to conclude what it was that he believed. But for me,as strange as it sounds, I consider myself a new creation. Simply clay. I am his to do with as he pleases. Does the clay beg the potter to make me as he wishes? Or does the clay realize that he is in good hands? I don't know what mountains you may face, but the climb will make you stronger


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> I have a strange view on prayer. I see God as a great Father. Would your father withold anything from you because others have not prayed on your behalf. I say no. But the bible has conflicting information on this. It says your Father knows what you need before you ask him. And it says to seek the kingdom first... Elsewhere we see the parable about the persistant widow and how she got justice by not giving up in prayer. Since we have a conflict, you can deduce what Paul believed about prayer by observing his prayers. He believed that good health might be granted through prayer and many other things can lead us to conclude what it was that he believed. But for me,as strange as it sounds, I consider myself a new creation. Simply clay. I am his to do with as he pleases. Does the clay beg the potter to make me as he wishes? Or does the clay realize that he is in good hands? I don't know what mountains you may face, but the climb will make you stronger


This response is how I think it should be, but, I confess that when I am on the other end, not that I am shaken in my faith, but very much broken in spirit, wondering just why I might be facing this as a child of God.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> I have a strange view on prayer. I see God as a great Father. Would your father withold anything from you because others have not prayed on your behalf. I say no. But the bible has conflicting information on this. It says your Father knows what you need before you ask him. And it says to seek the kingdom first... Elsewhere we see the parable about the persistant widow and how she got justice by not giving up in prayer. Since we have a conflict, you can deduce what Paul believed about prayer by observing his prayers. He believed that good health might be granted through prayer and many other things can lead us to conclude what it was that he believed. But for me,as strange as it sounds, I consider myself a new creation. Simply clay. I am his to do with as he pleases. Does the clay beg the potter to make me as he wishes? Or does the clay realize that he is in good hands? I don't know what mountains you may face, but the climb will make you stronger



Thanks for posting that.  So, do you approach prayer differently than Paul?  Would that mean you do not see it as a request for intervention, just an exercise in obedience?

Also, you use the "clay" analogy.  Does that mean you accept life as it comes, or do you pray for relief when needed?  Just curious.

Thanks again for the comments.  YEs...the mountain can strengthen us, or break us.  I am praying for strength.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> This response is how I think it should be, but, I confess that when I am on the other end, not that I am shaken in my faith, but very much broken in spirit, wondering just why I might be facing this as a child of God.



That is a risk I face, given my approach to faith.  I find myself wondering if my efforts/petitions are futile.  For me, it's difficult not to place expectations on results.  When they are not as requested, I find myself.......questioning.

I knew a fella who was going through a divorce (not me).  This guy used every Biblical formula he could find to get God to grant his request of his wife's return.  She never came back, and he eventually remarried.  However, today, he is much happier than he was during his marriage.

Prayer and God's will are a funny thing.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> It seems one way of saying it is much more positive than the other.  Yes, it made way for Christ and made redemption possible (positive), but Christ's sacrifice is not needed without it (negative).


Perhaps another thread entirely. I will try and stay with prayer.

When I was about 16 yrs old, I met a girl in school. She consumed my thoughts. I prayed continually that God would make her to be my wife. Keep in mind that throughout all of this, I was unregenerate. After graduating, she joined the military. Through the years, I heard that she married, divorced, remarried and divorced. 

In order to find more work, I had to move to another area. I received word that Jennifer was living just a few miles from me. I called her to see how she was doing. She immediately started asking specific questions about me. According to her, I answered them all incorrectly. This was August, 1989. We married in November, 1989.

She wanted children but was told by several doctors that it was not possible. We have 2, a boy and a girl.

I praise God "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."


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## centerpin fan (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> When I was about 16 yrs old, I met a girl in school. She consumed my thoughts. I prayed continually that God would make her to be my wife. Keep in mind that throughout all of this, I was unregenerate. After graduating, she joined the military. Through the years, I heard that she married, divorced, remarried and divorced.
> 
> In order to find more work, I had to move to another area. I received word that Jennifer was living just a few miles from me. I called her to see how she was doing. She immediately started asking specific questions about me. According to her, I answered them all incorrectly. This was August, 1989. We married in November, 1989.
> 
> She wanted children but was told by several doctors that it was not possible. We have 2, a boy and a girl.



Wow.


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## formula1 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Re:*

My expectations are that God would answer the prayer.  I am convinced that God answers every prayer from His saints, provided that they are offered up with full faith and trust in the One who is all powerful. My thoughts are that we as believer do not fully comprehend the importance and the power of earnest prayer. Try to get God's perspective here, how much He wants relationship with you, and prayer is the way.  There is scripture that for me shows us a glimpse of how important prayers are to God (Revelation 8:1-4). Think about it in terms of the setting and the circumstances and I think you'll agree.

As far as answered prayers, I've got plenty of them and I'm sure they'll be others. Here a couple of them:

1) Funny now, but I had different result than gemcgrew.  I prayed the same thing in school, only to realize later that God said 'No' but I do have a plan. And the one He chose has been by my side for 30 years.
2) My third child was born with several medical issues, kidney, bladder, spine, muscular, brain tumor, even heart! We have prayed earnestly I assure you and still do. Kidney remaining is 100%, bladder is now well, nerogenic nerve damage is gone, spinal cord is well, brain tumor is now benign, and the heart valve has been deemed a non-issue.  

These things are just a couple of examples ( I could give many more) but have everything to do with a faithful God hearing our prayers and taking action. Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Wouldn't the joy of watching a faithful God, and the walking miracle that is my 11 year old son, affect your faith and trust in Him?  I am sure it is so!  My evidence for my heavenly Father has now  become irrefutable!

Many speak of needing evidence to believe in God. They are looking for some physical reality that they can see in order to believe. God doesn't work the way man wants Him to though.  He says, Believe and Trust my salvation through Christ my Son, and then I will show you my wonders!  Hear the testimony of my servants, my Word, and follow! I will come to you if dare to ask and believe! 

God Bless!


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> So.....are you praying for God's will to be affected?  Wasn't "thy will be done" part of the Lord's prayer?



thy will be done isn't in the Luke version.

I did read this interpretation:
John Ortberg interprets this phrase as follows: “Many people think our job is to get my afterlife destination taken care of, then tread water till we all get ejected and God comes back and torches this place. But Jesus never told anybody—neither his disciples nor us—to pray, 'Get me out of here so I can go up there.' His prayer was, 'Make up there come down here.' Make things down here run the way they do up there.”[22] The request that “thy will be done” is God’s invitation to “join him in making things down here the way they are up there


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

I pray for the same reasons Jesus prayed.

Intercession(he prayed for others), Thanks, Guidance, and communion with God. I'll stick with those reasons as I try to be more Christ like.

God tells us to pray but for reasons. He doesn't say ,pray just to be praying, or just for obedience. But he does command us to pray.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

artfuldodger said:


> thy will be done isn't in the luke version.


22:42


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> 22:42



And a couple of times in that story he told his disciples to "Pray that you will not fall into temptation."

Jesus was praying to God that he was ready to wrap up the mission he was sent to do.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> And a couple of times in that story he told his disciples to "Pray that you will not fall into temptation."
> 
> Jesus was praying to God that he was ready to wrap up the mission he was sent to do.



I encourage you to keep studying.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Thanks for posting that.  So, do you approach prayer differently than Paul?  Would that mean you do not see it as a request for intervention, just an exercise in obedience?
> 
> Also, you use the "clay" analogy.  Does that mean you accept life as it comes, or do you pray for relief when needed?  Just curious.
> 
> Thanks again for the comments.  YEs...the mountain can strengthen us, or break us.  I am praying for strength.


My prayers are mostly thankfullness. I never go into detail about an issue. I simply ask for God's blessing. It is strange that it bothers my conscience when I go into detail. I think I see it as me picking up the reigns again and not trusting. Like a lack of faith. I have faith that God knows what I need before I ask, and a mindset that God will intervein.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

I have mentioned how I see my prayer life, but I realize that this issue is a tough one when your crushed, or carrying burdens. It would be arrogant for anyone to think they had all the answers because we know that bad things happen to good people


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> we know that bad things happen to good people


Do we? Are we starting with "me" as the measure of all things?


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## Ronnie T (Jan 11, 2013)

I get prayer request every single day.  I have 20 to 25 situations that are on church prayer list.

For Morgan Hasty, the 9 yo girl who has had cancer for the past 4 years, I plead with God for her healing.  And I humbly ask that God easy any burden that might be in her mind/heart, or her families.  I pray for happiness in little Morgan's life.  I pray that others will be touched and influenced by the circumstance that the Hasty family faces.

For the elderly, I ask that God might grant them restful sleep at night, be rid of aches and pains, and peace with all their family.  But mostly for peace of mind along with spiritual fulfillment.

No prayer should be the same.  God knows that we're going to pray even before the words leave our lips.  The prayer actually occurs in our minds.

Spiritual empowerment is always a greater blessing than physical healing, so I pray accordingly.  For others as well as myself.

I think we see ourselves in our prayers for others.
It's always good to know that someone is praying for me...

I wouldn't mind you adding me to your next prayer.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> It is strange that it bothers my conscience when I go into detail.



I have guilt that I am not thankful that things are not much worse.  For instance, Ronnie T's mention of a young girl with cancer....heartbreaking.

I do know that I have a nagging "why do you deserve 'x' when these other people must endure 'y'" process when I get into details.



			
				Ronnie T said:
			
		

> I wouldn't mind you adding me to your next prayer.



Will do Mr. Ronnie.  I know it must be exhausting trying to help others carry their burdens.  I know that a true pastor does this.....and I admire y'all.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> Do we? Are we starting with "me" as the measure of all things?


I don't understand your comment??


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

Those burdens get heavy when you carry them too long. I'm not in church now but I remember that it seemed like everybody had some sort of issue. Some minor, some major. It got heavy. As if you dreaded Sundays because there would be more weight added. Iknow that I have a strange view of prayer. I feel that I have a "circle of influence", made up of friends, coworkers, etc. But I rarely pray for those outside "my circle". 2 years after we left our church, we were still getting Emails and "phone tree" calls about prayer request. We finally got so tired of it that we requested they remove our name. Some calls at 11PM for someone who had a typical cold. I know this sounds bad. This was a family church of which I know most people there and do care for them. But the problem was that the "prayer window" was so large. It actually became a topic to make fun of. Not the prayer need but the circle size. Pray for John's coworker cousin's sister's daughter, who lives in Texas, because she might lose her job. I knew everybody in that church, but we rarely heard of anyone who's name was familiar. These things weight us down, break our spirit. I reserve my prayer request for those in my circle or for those whom I have been burdened for. I never pray for those such as the twin towers, school shooting, etc. My prayers are personal, not generic. My Father knows my needs and will not withold his blessings while holding out for more prayer from others.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> Perhaps another thread entirely. I will try and stay with prayer.



Thanks...I'd hate to throw a flag on you and Art in the same thread  



gemcgrew said:


> When I was about 16 yrs old, I met a girl in school. She consumed my thoughts. I prayed continually that God would make her to be my wife. Keep in mind that throughout all of this, I was unregenerate. After graduating, she joined the military. Through the years, I heard that she married, divorced, remarried and divorced.
> 
> In order to find more work, I had to move to another area. I received word that Jennifer was living just a few miles from me. I called her to see how she was doing. She immediately started asking specific questions about me. According to her, I answered them all incorrectly. This was August, 1989. We married in November, 1989.
> 
> ...



Great story, Gem.  Now, I must ask.....did y'all pray for children even after the bad news from the Dr's?  

....and.....the big picture is clearer in hindsight, it seems.  That theme is popping up a lot in this thread.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> Those burdens get heavy when you carry them too long. I'm not in church now but I remember that it seemed like everybody had some sort of issue. Some minor, some major. It got heavy. As if you dreaded Sundays because there would be more weight added. Iknow that I have a strange view of prayer. I feel that I have a "circle of influence", made up of friends, coworkers, etc. But I rarely pray for those outside "my circle". 2 years after we left our church, we were still getting Emails and "phone tree" calls about prayer request. We finally got so tired of it that we requested they remove our name. Some calls at 11PM for someone who had a typical cold. I know this sounds bad. This was a family church of which I know most people there and do care for them. But the problem was that the "prayer window" was so large. It actually became a topic to make fun of. Not the prayer need but the circle size. Pray for John's coworker cousin's sister's daughter, who lives in Texas, because she might lose her job. I knew everybody in that church, but we rarely heard of anyone who's name was familiar. These things weight us down, break our spirit. I reserve my prayer request for those in my circle or for those whom I have been burdened for. I never pray for those such as the twin towers, school shooting, etc. My prayers are personal, not generic. My Father knows my needs and will not withold his blessings while holding out for more prayer from others.



Yes.  I have been guilty of chuckling at prayer requests.  One infamous request was a runaway cat which was apparently too dumb to get out of the cold.  Oh, I laughed till I cried at that, but in my defense, I was only a teenager.

For these reasons I am extrememly hesitant to tell anybody when I am going through something.  Even more, this is the first time in my life that I can remember openly asking folks for prayer.  Very strange.....felt kind-of awkward.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> I encourage you to keep studying.


I still pray for the same four reasons Jesus prayed. Of course my Father's will is going to be done. Children ask their father for intervention but it's still their father's will. I don't have a problem trying to get God to intervene. If I was on my death bed, I would pray the same prayer.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Saying, Father, if thou be willing,.... If it be consistent with thy will of saving sinners, and which thou hast declared to me, and I have undertook to perform: the other evangelists say, "if it be possible"; See Gill on Matthew 26:39.

remove this cup from me; meaning, either his present sorrows and distress, or his approaching sufferings and death, which he had in view, or both:

nevertheless not my will; as man, for Christ had an human will distinct from, though not contrary to his divine will:

but thine be done; which Christ undertook, and came into this world to do; and it was his meat and drink to do it, and was the same with his own will, as the Son of God; See Gill on Matthew 26:39, and See Gill on Matthew 26:42.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

formula1 said:


> My expectations are that God would answer the prayer.  I am convinced that God answers every prayer from His saints, provided that they are offered up with full faith and trust in the One who is all powerful. My thoughts are that we as believer do not fully comprehend the importance and the power of earnest prayer. Try to get God's perspective here, how much He wants relationship with you, and prayer is the way.  There is scripture that for me shows us a glimpse of how important prayers are to God (Revelation 8:1-4). Think about it in terms of the setting and the circumstances and I think you'll agree.



True story F1, I almost sent you a PM requesting your input earlier today, but ran out of time.  Was very glad when I logged on tonight to see you had chimed in 

I have always heard people discuss prayer as an exercise in relationship building (I can hear the skeptics chuckle through the computer screen).  However, there are a good many people who honestly believe it works....as anticipated.  I don't know which one I am.



formula1 said:


> 1) Funny now, but I had different result than gemcgrew.  I prayed the same thing in school, only to realize later that God said 'No' but I do have a plan. And the one He chose has been by my side for 30 years.
> 2) My third child was born with several medical issues, kidney, bladder, spine, muscular, brain tumor, even heart! We have prayed earnestly I assure you and still do. Kidney remaining is 100%, bladder is now well, nerogenic nerve damage is gone, spinal cord is well, brain tumor is now benign, and the heart valve has been deemed a non-issue.



That story of your son.....amazing.  I guess it goes without asking that each item was specifically taken to God.  Very good for me to hear at this time.  

Do you believe your prayer changed the outcome?



formula1 said:


> Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Wouldn't the joy of watching a faithful God, and the walking miracle that is my 11 year old son, affect your faith and trust in Him? I am sure it is so! My evidence for my heavenly Father has now become irrefutable!



Oh, absolutely. Faith would be much easier if we could see God's hand.  Those who do have a much better time accepting the "unbelievable."



formula1 said:


> He says, Believe and Trust my salvation through Christ my Son, and then I will show you my wonders!  Hear the testimony of my servants, my Word, and follow! I will come to you if dare to ask and believe!
> 
> God Bless!



Thanks for posting that.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Now, I must ask.....did y'all pray for children even after the bad news from the Dr's?


All the more. Her 1st pregnancy miscarried at 3 months. Although we wept with sadness, peace was swiftly provided. We now understood that she could get pregnant. That pain and suffering made us appreciate the next 2 pregnancies all the more. Katie and Shane were born 18 months apart.


JB0704 said:


> the big picture is clearer in hindsight, it seems. That theme is popping up a lot in this thread.


Past experiences of grace are a wonderful thing. Grace caused me to come to Christ and grace revealed Christ in me. Grace gave me faith in him. Grace causes me to approach tomorrow all the better.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 11, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Yes.  I have been guilty of chuckling at prayer requests.  One infamous request was a runaway cat which was apparently too dumb to get out of the cold.  Oh, I laughed till I cried at that, but in my defense, I was only a teenager.
> 
> For these reasons I am extrememly hesitant to tell anybody when I am going through something.  Even more, this is the first time in my life that I can remember openly asking folks for prayer.  Very strange.....felt kind-of awkward.


Lean on your friends. It will surely turn full circle and they will need you to lean on. I hope that your prayers are answered real soon


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> All the more. Her 1st pregnancy miscarried at 3 months. Although we wept with sadness, peace was swiftly provided. We now understood that she could get pregnant. That pain and suffering made us appreciate the next 2 pregnancies all the more. Katie and Shane were born 18 months apart.



Great story, Gem.



gemcgrew said:


> Past experiences of grace are a wonderful thing. Grace caused me to come to Christ and grace revealed Christ in me. Grace gave me faith in him. Grace causes me to approach tomorrow all the better.



I have seen grace in my life in many ways.  I have never seen a "miracle" as you and F1 described.  On the other hand, I am here.  Perhaps what I require is perspective.


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## JB0704 (Jan 11, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> Lean on your friends. It will surely turn full circle and they will need you to lean on. I hope that your prayers are answered real soon



I have some very close friends who are going through a situation that I can't comprehend.  They have demostrated a strength and grace in the face of adversity.  They call me regularly to check on me.  I am so blessed to know them.  I had one of my "internet friends" from here call because he picked up on something in my writing the last few weeks.  That meant more than I can explain.  Thanks to that person.  Again, I am very blessed to be surrounded by some very awesome folks (even though I don't have a "church" myself).  And thanks for the hope.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 11, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
> 
> Saying, Father, if thou be willing,.... If it be consistent with thy will of saving sinners, and which thou hast declared to me, and I have undertook to perform: the other evangelists say, "if it be possible"; See Gill on Matthew 26:39.
> 
> ...


Ronnie T introduced me to Biblos.com about a year ago. My understanding is very similar to Gill's.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 11, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> Ronnie T introduced me to Biblos.com about a year ago. My understanding is very similar to Gill's.



Looks like a good site. I wish I had a smart phone as those Bible apps would be nice. I need to become a "high tech redneck." There are lots of Bible resources  for phones, i-pads, e-readers, etc. I think it's a wonderful way to spread the Gospel and research the Word of God. It's a long way from "The Church in the Wildwood" which is still a part of spreading the Gospel too.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 12, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Do you believe your prayer changed the outcome?



I know you asked the question of someone else...but I'll answer it 

I'm not sure if my prayers affect the actual outcome.  For my miracle...did my prayers..the prayers of many family/friends etc etc...change when my daughter was born?  I really don't know...but I kinda doubt it.  I believe it was God's plan from before the creation of this world for it to work out how it did.

Now...I do believe that my prayers...the prayers of so many others changed my own outcome.  It changed my attitude.  It changed how I looked at it...my perspective.  It caused me to look at it in a more Biblical/Christ-like view...rather than a selfish controlling view that was my initial sinful response.

So, maybe the question to ask is...Are our prayers meant to change God's mind....or are they meant to change ours?


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 12, 2013)

James 5:16 ESV
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 12, 2013)

In 2Cor 1 Paul was acknowledging that the Christians in Corinth had been praying for him(Paul) and his fellow workers for the Lord.

Here's something Paul said in regard to their prayers.....

11 you also joining in helping us through your prayers, so that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the favor bestowed on us through the prayers of many.

Those who had prayed were now able to thank God for Paul's ultimate success.  But the credit was given to God, not to the prayers.

People often say:  "Prayer works!"  
I say:  "Give all the credit to God!"
.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 12, 2013)

Ronnie T said:


> In 2Cor 1 Paul was acknowledging that the Christians in Corinth had been praying for him(Paul) and his fellow workers for the Lord.
> 
> Here's something Paul said in regard to their prayers.....
> 
> ...



The credit was given to the "power of prayer". Verse 11 said that. The "favor" bestowed on them was God's credit,
through the prayers of many. This in no way takes away from God. Paul himself said so. He acknowledged the "helping us through your prayers". then he went on to thank the people who prayed. I'm not trying to take away the ultimate power and will of God but I can't deny the power of prayer either. 
Maybe i'm just reading what you are saying wrong because i've read before you believe in the power of prayer.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2013)

I hold prayer in such a high regard that some of the responses on this thread go against everything the Bible says. I grew up in a Christian family and have prayed as long as I remember. I even prayed to God before I was a Christian. I hold prayer in the highest regard as Jesus did. I have never prayed because it is a requirement. Every one of my prayers was sincere and my way of talking to God.
I hold the "power of prayer" as having the same power of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I can't even fathom Christianity without prayer. If someone tells me "i'll pray for you" I personally believe it will make a difference. If I didn't think God was listening to me, or didn't care what I said, or was just making me do it like as a ritual, then I wouldn't pray. 
If my very on Mom was lying in bed dying of cancer, I would pray for God to heal her. I wouldn't pray for God's will to be done. I would be praying for God to have mercy on her. I would tell everyone I know to pray for God to "change his mind" and save her.
I know that God doesn't answer every prayer and i'm glad he doesn't. He is God and he get's to make the final decision but i'm still gonna ask him for an appeal occasionally. Why, becauese I do want God to intervene. I pray God to help my daughter's drive home safely late at night. I pray to God to help me be a better person, I pray to God to guide the United States government, I pray to God to keep sickness from my family. I actually want God to listen to my request. I can't in no way think or believe my prayers are a formality.
Prayer most definitely works. Ask Jesus, he was a prayer expert.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2013)

Amen Art.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 13, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I have never prayed because it is a requirement.


So there can be an effect without a cause?


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> That story of your son.....amazing.  I guess it goes without asking that each item was specifically taken to God.  Very good for me to hear at this time.
> 
> Do you believe your prayer changed the outcome?
> Thanks for posting that.



Yes I believe it! But not just mine, but others as well joining my wife and I in these prayers. Whether God had a plan and that plan was for us to see His power in this process and draw us closer to Him (which it did BTW), I don't know. But what I see on this side of heaven is a God who hears our cries and pleas and delivered us in the process.

God Bless!


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> So there can be an effect without a cause?



I'm not sure what you are asking.
God tells us to pray for all the reasons already mentioned. I do it for the reasons and results. Jesus prayed for reasons and results. He wanted his Father to intervene and do certain things he couldn't do alone. I don't pray just because it is a requirement.
Trying to follow the New Testament commandments is a requirement. I try to follow them for many more reasons than just because they are a requirement. I try not to sin, not only because Jesus told us no to sin but for the output of not sinning will have on my life and others. It's really kinda hard to explain.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 13, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I'm not sure what you are asking.
> God tells us to pray for all the reasons already mentioned. I do it for the reasons and results. Jesus prayed for reasons and results. He wanted his Father to intervene and do certain things he couldn't do alone. I don't pray just because it is a requirement.
> Trying to follow the New Testament commandments is a requirement. I try to follow them for many more reasons than just because they are a requirement. I try not to sin, not only because Jesus told us no to sin but for the output of not sinning will have on my life and others. It's really kinda hard to explain.


When you pray, what required you to pray? What instigated or influenced you to pray?


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> When you pray, what required you to pray? What instigated or influenced you to pray?



My free will.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 13, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> My free will.


So prayer is a requirement. You just assign it to your free will. Interesting.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2013)

What instigated or influenced you to pray? My free will. When I pray it's when something in my daily life happens that warrants prayer. It could be something that I want to thank God for. It could be a prayer of repentance for something bad I  did as a result of free will. It could be a prayer for intervention over some bad news I had just received. It could be that I just wanted to talk to God about something. I don't pray at ten two and four every day.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 13, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> When you pray, what required you to pray? What instigated or influenced you to pray?



Ok, i've told you why I pray. Why do you pray? What do you expect from your prayers? What about the Biblical examples of prayers causing actions? Why did Jesus pray? Is there any power in prayer? Does it cause results, not just intervention prayer but, a prayer of thanks? Does God sincerely want to here you thank him? Do you believe a prayer asking God for guidance  is of no use? Such as "God, please help me choose between these to job offers."


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## gemcgrew (Jan 14, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> Ok, i've told you why I pray. Why do you pray?


Same as you, it is required. We just disagree on what or who required it.


Artfuldodger said:


> What do you expect from your prayers?


Exactly what occurs and every time. God's will.
"The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33)


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## Ronnie T (Jan 14, 2013)

Personally, I pray because I must.
Through the years I've grown to weak to deal with everything on my own.
"Pray without ceasing".  Impossible!  Or is it?  Someone once told me they had stopped saying amen at the end of their prayers.  Said they wouldn't hang up the phone if God was on the line; why end a prayer?
I have no options other than pray.  I need God to much.
.


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## BOWHUNTER! (Jan 17, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> I have guilt that I am not thankful that things are not much worse.  For instance, Ronnie T's mention of a young girl with cancer....heartbreaking.
> 
> I do know that I have a nagging "why do you deserve 'x' when these other people must endure 'y'" process when I get into details.
> 
> ...



Very guilty of this as well. I weigh my issues sometimes against others and don't even feel worthy of asking for help or praying for them because of that very reason. Undeserving sums it up pretty much in my mind. I have had a selfish feeling inside at times while praying..not for a want but for simple needs and relief.. It's crazy.

Looking through this thread has me thinking about prayer deeper. I do believe we are to do it out of obedience but it also allows us to get and stay closer to God in doing so. It also keeps our fellowship strong between our brothers and sisters. I do think God has a will and plan laid out for each of us and it's not wrong for us to ask for a change or something less demanding and painful. But through us asking and getting ( or not getting ), we learn and see our path sometimes. I believe our prayers can be answered in a sense that ( Gods plan might have been changed ) but those instances can be for His glory and Him showing his grace and mercy. He shows off too..


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## 04ctd (Jan 25, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> So prayer is a requirement. You just assign it to your free will. Interesting.





gemcgrew said:


> I encourage _*you*_ to keep studying.





BOWHUNTER! said:


> I believe our prayers can be answered in a sense that ( Gods plan might have been changed ) but those instances can be for His glory and Him showing his grace and mercy. He shows off too..



well said!!!



We teach, and we call it “a personal praying relationship with Jesus Christ.” That means you talk to God constantly, not because it is required, or not because you need something, but like your grandparents, you just want to talk to them, and you enjoy each other’s conversation.

If you love your grandparents, you will call them all the time. I used to make all my phone calls while my wife grocery shopped, I would wait in the parking lot and talk to my parents & Gparents. The year my Granny passed, I talked to her for about 20 minutes every other week.  

Just a lot of communication with her:  was not a requirement, no guilt, no anger, just love & visiting, talking about what happened in our day/week, and what we are concerned, worried or overjoyed about.
That’s how praying should be:  talking to God.


Here’s an analogy:
Do you like for your family who lives far away to call you & talk? Or do they only call to ask for money? 
Prayer is like asking your grandparents if you can borrow some money.  

-If you never talk to them, and barely know them, they may loan you $100.

-if you talk to them constantly, and they know you well, and you know them well, they may loan you $10,000
The amount of influence we can exert by prayer is matched by the amount of time we spend in prayer. People who don’t do it…find it ineffective, and never really devote much time to it.

People who do pray constantly, and find it very effective… do it more and more, and find it more effective as they grow older.


I’ll provide some examples:

Example #1:  I know a lady in South Georgia, Ms Jane, and she spends hours in prayer EVERY day, and when she prays, God LISTENs.  I had a buddy who Tithe’d (that’s another post) and he got a new dishwasher, and could NOT sell his year old one, so he gave it to me.
Ms Jane had been praying for one, and I installed it for her, and then she told me “we eat supper, load the dishwasher, and then we sit down as a family and do a Bible Study while the dishes wash”
So her prayers changed everything, because her purpose glorified and honored God.  
She also ran out of detergent, and my buddy gave me all his old stuff (could not use in the new stainless steel one) and I tossed it in the back of the truck.  It fell out when I opened the door at church, and she told her son “there’s our dish detergent we been praying for, it just fell from heaven”

Example #2:  I have two buddies; one is a “street evangelist” who goes around leading people to Christ, uses Evangi-Cubes and stuff.  He says when my other buddy prays:  “God puts everyone else on hold...and listens to your prayer…and ANSWERS your prayer”
That’s powerful, when one man says another man can change the world thru his prayer.

Example #3:  Colton Burpo, as a young boy, died, went to Heaven and sat on Jesus’ knee. Jesus told him ‘I wanted you to stay with me, but your father has prayed so much, you have to go back’

time 5:44 on this video:



http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&...29,d.dmQ&fp=3725a230c1af26d4&biw=1256&bih=864

prayers answered in my life:
my 4yo Gbaby asked wife/Gma "lets pray for us to get our own house"
so Gma & Gbaby got down on their knees\, held hands, and prayed, few minutes later, daughter called, "we are pre-approved for $175K house loan"

other daughter called "husband sick, doc's can't do anything, he can't work, we may hit hard times"
wife & I hit our knees, held hands, prayed for about 20 minutes, taking turns. prayed about it a LOT over next few weeks.  His Doc told him quit his truck driving job, and he got better (IBS) and daughter got pay raise to cover his job.



i think so many prayers are answered in our lives...sometimes we forget to count them as miracles.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 25, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> So prayer is a requirement. You just assign it to your free will. Interesting.



This was in reference to this question. "What instigated or influenced you to pray?" 
There are many reasons for praying as already mentioned in the thread.
I do beleve in the power of prayer. I'd hate to think I was just praying for communion with God, which is another reason to pray as mentioned.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 25, 2013)

04ctd said:


> i think so many prayers are answered in our lives...sometimes we forget to count them as miracles.


Where you see miracles, I see providence fulfilled. I thank God for the circumstances that lead me to pray, I thank God for the prayer and I thank God for the result. I know that "All things are of God" and "All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

"They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep. For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof. They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble. They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits' end. Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses. He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still. Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven. Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!" (Psalm 107:23-31)


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## gemcgrew (Jan 25, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> There are many reasons for praying as already mentioned in the thread.
> I do beleve in the power of prayer. I'd hate to think I was just praying for communion with God, which is another reason to pray as mentioned.


Consider 1 John 5:14,15 "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him".


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## gemcgrew (Jan 26, 2013)

04ctd said:


> We teach, and we call it “a personal praying relationship with Jesus Christ.”


04ctd, I did not have time earlier but have some questions for you. Who is "We"?


04ctd said:


> That means you talk to God constantly, not because it is required, or not because you need something, but like your grandparents, you just want to talk to them, and you enjoy each other’s conversation.


You say it is not required but then say that "you just want to talk to them". How is it that your desire to talk to them, does not require you to do so?


04ctd said:


> If you love your grandparents, you will call them all the time. I used to make all my phone calls while my wife grocery shopped, I would wait in the parking lot and talk to my parents & Gparents. The year my Granny passed, I talked to her for about 20 minutes every other week.


In light of the above statements, what are you saying? 
1) If you love your grandparents, you will call them all the time.
2) I call mine while my wife grocery shops.
3) The year my granny passed, I called her every other week.


04ctd said:


> Here’s an analogy:
> Do you like for your family who lives far away to call you & talk? Or do they only call to ask for money?
> Prayer is like asking your grandparents if you can borrow some money.
> 
> ...


Is that your analogy? I can only conclude from it that your prayers are self serving and manipulative.

I ask you to reevaluate.


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## 04ctd (Jan 26, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> 04ctd, I did not have time earlier but have some questions for you. Who is "We"?



my wife and I



gemcgrew said:


> You say it is not required but then say that "you just want to talk to them". How is it that your desire to talk to them, does not require you to do so?



you have a free will. everyone says "ah, i need to call so & so....but I will do it later"

if you don't call your friends and keep in touch with them...you are no longer friends.



gemcgrew said:


> In light of the above statements, what are you saying?
> 1) If you love your grandparents, you will call them all the time.
> 2) I call mine while my wife grocery shops.
> 3) The year my granny passed, I called her every other week.



1)  yes, you like to talk/visit with people you love. people who love you, want to know whats going on in your life.
People who are homebound LOVE to have their phone ring. Go talk to some older folks and ask them what they do all day.  NOTHING.

2) yes, I am in college, my wife is in college, we both work full time, we both teach at church, and we have Gkids. but I still try to carve some time out to talk to the Patriarch of my family.

3) there ain't much to talk about with someone who is home bound, so they don't have much to say. All her grand kids were calling her at intervals, so she felt loved & like she was still "part of the family" and important to us.



gemcgrew said:


> Is that your analogy? I can only conclude from it that your prayers are self serving and manipulative.
> 
> I ask you to reevaluate.



I have re-evaluated. Family is important, communication is important. You _*can't *_have one without the other.

i politely ask you to re-read the words in red that contain the phrase "My Father....."
and you will see family...and communication.

God isn't an ATM. but he likes to talk to us: 
_Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him._
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=god+talk&qs_version=NKJV

i think it's hard to communicate via forums, but this says alot:
http://odb.org/2013/01/15/theres-power/
here's the gist of it:
_Prayer is powerful, but it’s such a mystery. We’re taught to have faith, to ask earnestly and boldly, to persevere, to be surrendered to His will. Yet God answers in His wisdom and His answers are best. I’m just thankful that God wants to hear our hearts and that no matter the answer, He is still good._

i dunno man,  it's hard to explain.

and....prayer is a "perishable skill"
like martial arts or riding a motorcycle, if you don't do it often....you forget how to.  have you ever quit going to the gym, then went back, and could only lift half  the weight you did before?


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## gemcgrew (Jan 26, 2013)

04cd, thanks for taking the time to respond. Regarding prayer, I now have a better understanding of your thoughts.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 26, 2013)

" I can only conclude from it that your prayers are self serving and manipulative."

I think it's ok to pray for self serving needs. I don't see it as being manipulative as that would be impossible to manipulate God.

Ps 34:10.........."...those who seek the Lord shall not lack any good thing."
Phil 4:6.........."Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let you requests be made known to God; ..."
Ps. 20:4.........."...may He grant you according to your hearts desire, and fulfill all of your purpose." 
What can we ask for in our daily prayers? Whatever our heart desires, whatever we require in life.  This can include:
■Healing – For ourselves and those we care for
■Security – Freedom from worries
■Sustenance – Both physical and spiritual nourishment
■Guidance – Help in making important decisions
■Strength – We are all faced with temptations that we need strength to resist
■Reconciliation – To help us forgive and ask forgiveness from others

Matthew 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.


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## 04ctd (Jan 27, 2013)

gemcgrew said:


> I now have a better understanding of your thoughts.



and i finally understand your avatar, it's at Putt Putt, 

we use that whenever a new kid visits, it's a quick analogy a teenager can usually relate to.

here's my thoughts: i do NOT tell people "I  will pray for you"  i pray RIGHT NOW....my Pastors father was sick, so i called his Dad. his dad told me the deal, and we prayed RIGHT THEN on the phone.   he called his son, and said "did you know you could do that? he just prayed RIGHT THEN..."

and if you ask me to pray...we pray NOW, i don't want to forget, i don't want to miss an opportunity. I want you to know that i love God & trust God and pray about everything.

this means i usually have to pray at "inconvenient" places/times.  we bought a new car on new years eve, and I prayed with the salesman two or three times on the lot, and I prayed with the finance manager when he showed us out of his office. his face fell in relief, his shoulders sagged, you could the fear & stress & worry roll off him, he looked at me and said "i NEEDED that...it  has been such along time since i prayed....'

i prayed with a guy at the gun shop last week. all the other customers looked at me like i was crazy.  I  figure, if a guy holding a $1200 pistol and riding a new Harley is praying...he AIN'T the crazy one.




rent/borrow/steal the DVD for the movie courageous.
click on the bottom link in the main menu, for  the "extra material"
there's a short video on there "church in prayer"

i found it:


http://www.courageousthemovie.com/blog/

that explains how i pray: when i come together with a group people, we pray.
when we break fellowship, we pray.


edit: if you have a child that needs prayer, PM me your number, and i will call & pray with you, and if we need to, we can get Ms Jane on the phone.  She's a "game changer" when it comes to the power of prayer.


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