# spiritual warfare?



## Bob2010 (Jul 9, 2014)

As a Christian do you believe in spiritual warfare? If so how would you describe it?


----------



## hobbs27 (Jul 9, 2014)

Yes. I will get back with you on description.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 9, 2014)

Curious to know what you got. Freinds was talking about the old days. Said baptism used to include acknowledging or casting out spirits ie demons. People came from different beliefs and a new start start meant sending the demons on their way. Spiritual warfare is not buying Satan's deceptions. Is he crazy or is it true? We are under attack?  Why does the Baptist Church avoid this topic now if it's true? Seems they should prepare people for an attack. Thoughts?? Anyone? ?


----------



## hobbs27 (Jul 9, 2014)

From my own perspective and my on opinion based on my studies of the subject the effects of spiritual warfare on a Christian.


The war is Christ, Angels , and Saints, vs demons. Our natural flesh desires to side with the demons but they are no good for us in the long run, offering us temporary pleasures  and disobedience from the One that has saved us from death.

 We can either put on the whole armour of God and protect ourselves from these pesky demons or we can side with them for a spell and face the ultimate consequence. They cannot rule our lives as Christians, in other words they cannot take over our body, but they can draw us in, like a dog on a chain just waiting for you to get close enough to bite...but the Gospel does have them chained and they can only do to a Christian what that poor Christian allows them to do.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 9, 2014)

That makes sense.  I also think the scripture he sent me would back that up. Why did the church used to teach that scripture but now avoid it? That's good information Christians should be aware of.


----------



## hobbs27 (Jul 9, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> That makes sense.  I also think the scripture he sent me would back that up. Why did the church used to teach that scripture but now avoid it? That's good information Christians should be aware of.



I cant answer why the church does what it does these days. Im afraid they are more concerned with numbers and most folks are looking for financial and psychological health---not knowing that all is cured with their spiritual health.


----------



## centerpin fan (Jul 9, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> Freinds was talking about the old days. Said baptism used to include acknowledging or casting out spirits ie demons. People came from different beliefs and a new start start meant sending the demons on their way.



The Orthodox Church still includes a formal renunciation of Satan during the baptism service.




Bob2010 said:


> Spiritual warfare is not buying Satan's deceptions. Is he crazy or is it true? We are under attack?



Yep, until the day we die.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 10, 2014)

That's what it's called.  I'll check it out now. Thanks


----------



## StriperAddict (Jul 17, 2014)

I believe a believer cannot understand nor engage in spiritual warfare unless they know the totality of what was done for them at the cross. This is synomous with taking every thought captive to the obidence of Christ.  If you have the belief (thought) that you are dual natured in your spirit man (the false belief that your new man is a combination of the adam [sinful] nature _AND_ the righteousness of God in Christ _combined_), then you are a "house divided against itself", which can't stand, nor won't stand the thought attacks from the evil one, _coming from the body_.

If this is not clear, I'd recommend a prayerful study of Romans Ch 6, with all the cross references to...
"Baptism into Christ"
"Old self crucified"
"he who has died"

Etc.

Also consider what Paul is saying about the battle with the "power of sin" in his _body _ in Rom 7.

Romans 7:23 (_emphasis _added)
but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of _the law of sin which is in my members_.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 18, 2014)

I studied Ephesians 6:10-20 and 2 Corinthians 10:1-6 over the last 2 days. It clearly states we are under attack.  I'll check out these verses as well. I will understand better what you are talking about once I study it. I will say the goal is to hold every thought up to being obedient to Christ.  That's not our human nature.  We are sinners in a fallen world. If we were perfect we would be just like Christ. Paul says it's the Holy Spirit in us that will overcome satans attacks of deception.  Dual natured would be am I seeking the Holy Spirits direction or am I going to believe the deception of the evil things that lurk around. I will look up the verses though and see if I am missing your point.


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 18, 2014)

StriperAddict said:


> I believe a believer cannot understand nor engage in spiritual warfare unless they know the totality of what was done for them at the cross. This is synomous with taking every thought captive to the obidence of Christ.  If you have the belief (thought) that you are dual natured in your spirit man (the false belief that your new man is a combination of the adam [sinful] nature _AND_ the righteousness of God in Christ _combined_), then you are a "house divided against itself", which can't stand, nor won't stand the thought attacks from the evil one, _coming from the body_.
> 
> If this is not clear, I'd recommend a prayerful study of Romans Ch 6, with all the cross references to...
> "Baptism into Christ"
> ...




So this ? So in the church in Pauls day, immersion was the norm for baptism.  It symbolized the death and burial of the old way of life. Coming out the water was resurrection with a new life in Christ.  If we think of our sinful life as buried and dead. We have a powerful motive to resist sin. We are united with Christ  death and resurrection.  Evil desires and bondage to sin died with Christ.   We are free from sins hold on us. So our sinful nature died on the cross and we are free from its power.  The " body of sin " is not our human body but our sinful nature inherited by Adam. Our body willingly cooperates with our sinful nature.  The body is not evil but the sin in us that is evil. The power of sin in us is defeated.  Through faith in Christ we stand acquitted and are no longer guilty before God. Paul says we no longer need to live under sins power.  We will still want to sin and still will sometimes.  Today we can choose to live for Christ. Before salvation we were a slave to sin.


----------



## StriperAddict (Jul 18, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> I studied Ephesians 6:10-20 and 2 Corinthians 10:1-6 over the last 2 days. It clearly states we are under attack. I'll check out these verses as well. I will understand better what you are talking about once I study it.


Its a great study, I hope it leads you to see just what liberty and freedom you/we have in Christ.


Bob2010 said:


> I will say the goal is to hold every thought up to being obedient to Christ. That's not our human nature. We are sinners in a fallen world. If we were perfect we would be just like Christ. Paul says it's the Holy Spirit in us that will overcome satans attacks of deception. Dual natured would be am I seeking the Holy Spirits direction or am I going to believe the deception of the evil things that lurk around. I will look up the verses though and see if I am missing your point.


 
Sinners as in we can commit acts of sin - agreed.  But the very power of sin _as an entity_ has been crucified in our new creation, new man, new spirt. This is what the scripture is pointing to, and this is were we can "live and move and have our (true) being", not in pride or by our own power of the flesh, but by His Spirit within...

Consider the "war" within in a new way...
Our new spirit man is contained in an _unredeemed body_ that still "houses" the power of sin. That takes the power of sin as a fight witin us (wrong perspective) to where it really belongs, a fight with "our body" so to speak. Since satan is not omnipresent, it, the power of sin in our bodies,  does its work by putting thoughts into our mind (a temptation or some declaration that is not of the truth), and YES, we must "war" according to the Spirit about this.  Those thoughts can either be listened to (with the result being an act of sin),
or,
We can take authority over it because of the Holy, righteous Spirit within us. And as we yield, surrender to the truth of His word, our conduct follows and we commit an act of righteousness.  
The only thing the Holy Spirit and the new man want to "do" is acts of righteousness.  The only thing the power of sin in our bodies wants to "do" is flood our minds with thoughts contrary to truth.  

Rom 7:23 but I see <SUP class=crossreference value='(AM)' data-cr="#cen-NASB-28115AM"></SUP>a different law in <SUP class=footnote value='[p]' data-fn="#fen-NASB-28115p"></SUP>_the members of my body_, waging war against the <SUP class=crossreference value='(AN)' data-cr="#cen-NASB-28115AN"></SUP>law of my mind and making me a prisoner <SUP class=footnote value='[q]' data-fn="#fen-NASB-28115q"></SUP>of <SUP class=crossreference value='(AO)' data-cr="#cen-NASB-28115AO"></SUP>the _law of sin which is in my members_.... 

Some may suggest that the "old self" is "_declared_" dead by God, and that we have to wait until our bodies cease to operate to get rid of it. How foolish! "_Old things_ have passed away"! The only thing that will be gone when our body dies is the power of sin in it... but our spirit man will be raised up to be with Him forever. 

Based on the scriptures in Romans, that our old sinful self, our old man, our old sinful nature (all synomous terms)-- that existed in our spirit man before the cross -- is dead, crucified and buried.  
If it isn't, then we are literally at war with our very selves, and the cross isn't enough.  

Disclaimer: This doesn't make the believer a "little god" or "little Christ", but it allows the believer to know that the imputed righteous of God in Christ is within his spirit man, and that the life of Christ can be manifest as we live, what I call, the "exchanged life" ... Christ in you, through you, "as you", so that you cannot boast of anything you "do", except in the cross and its completed, finished work through you as you walk in faith and continual surrender to the Lord,
Romans 12:1, and 1 Corinthians 9:27

In no way does Paul ever say he has a _dual war_ with his _inner_ spirit man!  Can two walk together (effectively) unless they be agreed?

This is why "renewing" our minds in the truth of His word is sooo important. 


Our brain is a piece of fleash that has old false programmed habit patterns (from the influence of the world, the flesh and the devil) that the power of sin in our bodies will bring up at those times of testing! As we continue to yield to the authority and the truth of Gods word, we have every reason to take authority over that. It can be rightly said, our behavior is being changed, one false habit pattern at a time. 

ok, more later!  God bless, and that right muchly!


----------



## StriperAddict (Jul 18, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> So this ? So in the church in Pauls day, immersion was the norm for baptism. It symbolized the death and burial of the old way of life. Coming out the water was resurrection with a new life in Christ. If we think of our sinful life as buried and dead. We have a powerful motive to resist sin. We are united with Christ death and resurrection. Evil desires and bondage to sin died with Christ. We are free from sins hold on us. So our sinful nature died on the cross and we are free from its power. The " body of sin " is not our human body but our sinful nature inherited by Adam. Our body willingly cooperates with our sinful nature. The body is not evil but the sin in us that is evil. The power of sin in us is defeated. Through faith in Christ we stand acquitted and are no longer guilty before God. Paul says we no longer need to live under sins power. We will still want to sin and still will sometimes. Today we can choose to live for Christ. Before salvation we were a slave to sin.


 
Looks like we were posting at the same time!



The scripture doesn't teach that our body/flesh is evil, but that within it (its members) is the power of sin. That's where the pressure comes from to commit acts of sin. Rom 7 is all over this point. 
Remember, if temptation was a sin, then even Christ was guilty, but a thought or temptation is not sin. It is a testing ground, one in which, even Christ, living in a fleshly body, had to deal with! Consider the agony in the garden ... did not Jesus Himself fight with that same pressure... and overcome??  Does not the word tell us that "He was tempted in ALL things as we are, yet never sinned??"

(BTW: Did Jesus fight directly with the devil in the Garden of Getsamane, or with the power of sin...  
that's probably too heavy for some. 
I'll add the disclaimer that Jesus, being fully God and fully man, never possesed a sinful nature, but it begs to understand where the fight/temptations came from, if they were NOT in His very person or Spirit!  Hint: He was born of a woman... ok, I'll shut up!  More on that later!)


Paul is saying that the good that he wants to do - coming from his new spirit man, is pressured from his flesh, from the entity or power of sin in the members of his body.  
We have the mind of Christ, but our brains (flesh) still house old habit patterns that came from the world. Those fleshy habit patters turn into thoughts that try to suggest we are dual "natured" ... that our inner man then is still evil.  That is not what Paul discovers in Rom 7!  

more later....  thanks for sharing !


----------



## Bob2010 (Jul 18, 2014)

My brain hurts! Thanks though.  This is helpful.


----------



## StriperAddict (Jul 19, 2014)

Best to you with your study.

All I can add is that we can really be assured our entire salvation rests squarely on the shoulders of our Lord, and that by His Spirit we can recover the lost condition of our souls.
For me, the journey has gone from 'religious' duty to excitement and restful, prayerful service and abiding.  
Kind of a paradox, biblical rest and diligent service going on at the same time!


----------



## Bob2010 (Sep 5, 2014)

So is spiritual warfare only about the evil thoughts and our natural desire inherited by Adam to sin? What about those pesky demons? No one wants to talk about them?


----------



## hobbs27 (Sep 5, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> So is spiritual warfare only about the evil thoughts and our natural desire inherited by Adam to sin? What about those pesky demons? No one wants to talk about them?



I'm not so sure anything is inherited by Adam anymore, I think Christ resolved that problem. We do however have to contend with the flesh. Demons are like a mean dog on a chain. The only way they can get you is if you walk in close enough. They have no power over Christians.


----------



## gordon 2 (Sep 6, 2014)

StriperAddict said:


> Best to you with your study.
> 
> All I can add is that we can really be assured our entire salvation rests squarely on the shoulders of our Lord, and that by His Spirit we can recover the lost condition of our souls.
> For me, the journey has gone from 'religious' duty to excitement and restful, prayerful service and abiding.
> Kind of a paradox, biblical rest and diligent service going on at the same time!



I find you post very in uplifting. Now on diligent service... can you give me an example of something that would be this?


----------



## StriperAddict (Sep 9, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> I find you post very in uplifting. Now on diligent service... can you give me an example of something that would be this?


 
Find what your heart loves to do more than life itself - in the abiding enjoyment of your Lord Jesus    .... the rest will follow.

(Wow, there's a sermon there... pick apart the word rest, not meaning "remainder"  )


----------



## Israel (Sep 11, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> As a Christian do you believe in spiritual warfare? If so how would you describe it?


To see Christ where he is, when whatever else that tries to get in the way, does.


----------



## mtnwoman (Sep 12, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> So is spiritual warfare only about the evil thoughts and our natural desire inherited by Adam to sin? What about those pesky demons? No one wants to talk about them?



I am totally aware of those pesky demons nipping at my heels everyday.  They attack me on every level of my being. Mentally, physically, spiritually. I rebuke them all the time. I even open my front door and tell them to git out and leave me alone.  Sometimes I'm weaker, sometimes I'm stronger to defeat them. But they always attack me on my weaknesses.....mostly self destructive (health) issues.  For a long period of my life, the demons 'lived' thru me, and they know me and how to tempt me. I am in prayer mode all the time.....I still stumble, knocked down but not knocked out. Thank you Jesus......round 3..ding ding..lol


----------

