# 270 barrel issue



## dawg4028 (Apr 11, 2011)

about 4 years ago my 700 ADL (1st gun).270 had a 308 round shot through it on accident.  I had a guy look at it and said he would not shoot it.  He is no gunsmith.  This gun has a lot of sentimental value.  I hate seeing it there non functional.  
Any opinions on the chances its harmed.  It seems fine but won't dare shoot it until its cleared for service.  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Hammack (Apr 11, 2011)

honestly i am trying to figure out how a 308 was fired in the rifle, and it still be in one piece...  Personally if it did infact have a 30 cal sent down the barrel there is no way that I would shoot it as it.  Send it to a competent rifle builder who can bore scope it and probably end of rebarreling it.


----------



## Flaustin1 (Apr 11, 2011)

I cant comprehend it either.  It shouldve blown the receiver into peices.  I want pics.


----------



## biker13 (Apr 11, 2011)

Put a new barrel on it.


----------



## GunnSmokeer (Apr 12, 2011)

*Gunsmith*

Are you SURE that a .308 round was fired from that 270?

Was it a handloaded round that may have had a .270 bullet in a .308 case?

Anyhow, I vote for having a gunsmith inspect it visually and measure the dimensions of the chamber and bore. Then if it passes inspection with no cracks and no bulges, take it out and shoot it remotely from a machine rest or gun vise or sled or something.  If it shoots and the action functions normally and it puts bullets close to the aiming point, consider it OK.


----------



## polaris30144 (Apr 12, 2011)

I can't imagine a short action cartridge of the wrong(Oversized and too short by a lot) caliber chambering and firing in a long action with out a catastrophic failure to the action that would be very obvious. I am not convinced that is what really happened. Something just doesn't sound right with the story.


----------



## Bruz (Apr 12, 2011)

Needs to be sent to Remington to inspect and magnaflux it. ....I would think the receiver and barrel are good but I would absolutely have the bolt thoroughly gone over...especially the lugs. 

Robert


----------



## rayjay (Apr 12, 2011)

For all it would cost to determine if the action was usable you could just buy another gun and leave this one in the safe. If a 308 round was actually fired then the receiver and bolt have been subjected to a severe overpressure and I personally would think it foolish to tempt fate again with those parts.


----------



## Clemson (Apr 12, 2011)

If it were brought to my shop, we would check the headspace, visually inspect the gun, and test fire it.  If it all checks out OK, the gun is likely to be just fine.  A Remington action can take a surprising amount of abuse and keep on ticking.  

Bill Jacobs
Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing
Greenwood, SC 
864-993-2522


----------



## Dead Eye Eddy (Apr 12, 2011)

I'd have it checked out by Mr. Jacobs or someone else before I'd ever put another round in it.

That said, there's nothing stopping the OP from selling the gun and letting it be someone else's problem.  Before you bash me, I am not advocating that.  Every one of us that had purchased and then fired a used weapon has taken a huge chance that that weapon has not been mistreated in the past and is indeed safe to fire.


----------



## Bruz (Apr 12, 2011)

Clemson said:


> If it were brought to my shop, we would check the headspace, visually inspect the gun, and test fire it.  If it all checks out OK, the gun is likely to be just fine.  A Remington action can take a surprising amount of abuse and keep on ticking.
> 
> Bill Jacobs
> Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing
> ...



Mr. Jacobs...with all due respect...I have a Rem 700 in 300WM that fired several Hornady factory rounds which were 6gr over charged...Visually you couldn't see an issue...headspace was fine...the only clue was a dent in the bolt face. 

It was returned to Remington and they found that one lug was cracked to within .030 of shearing off and the other was about .075...both cracked almost to the point of failure. I would much rather use a private Smith for 99% of my work but when it comes to this sort of thing they simply don't have the diagnostic equipment to make sure it is safe.

SEND IT TO REMINGTON...a new bolt and probably a barrel are worth the peace of mind

BTW: They didn't charge me a dime. 

Robert


----------



## huntmore (Apr 12, 2011)

Bruz said:


> Mr. Jacobs...with all due respect...I have a Rem 700 in 300WM that fired several Hornady factory rounds which were 6gr over charged...Visually you couldn't see an issue...headspace was fine...the only clue was a dent in the bolt face.
> 
> It was returned to Remington and they found that one lug was cracked to within .030 of shearing off and the other was about .075...both cracked almost to the point of failure. I would much rather use a private Smith for 99% of my work but when it comes to this sort of thing they simply don't have the diagnostic equipment to make sure it is safe.
> 
> ...




How many is several? One and several is way different. I think you gun may have already had a problem before the 6gr over.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove (Apr 12, 2011)

polaris30144 said:
			
		

> I can't imagine a short action cartridge of the wrong(Oversized and too short by a lot) caliber chambering and firing in a long action with out a catastrophic failure to the action that would be very obvious



Actually, that's exactly why it's possible.  .308win and 270win case heads are identical in size, it's the case length, shoulder angle, and and obviously case mouth that are different.  

I was just curious enough to try, a .308win with 150gr bullet will almost chamber in my .270win, I'm sure I could torque the bolt enough to chamber it if I really wanted.  A lighter bullet or deeper bullet seating would allow it to chamber with ease.

I'd have the rifle looked at, but I wouldn't necessarily write it off quite yet.


----------



## miles58 (Apr 12, 2011)

I have removed a .308 round from a .270 rifle and can tell you it wasn't all that difficult to get in there.  It was not fired with a .308 in the chamber.  I didn't do the mixup, I just fixed it, but trying to repeat it later I found out it can go in easier than you think.

Have the gun inspected by a smith you know and trust.  Do not assume it's safe because YOU can't see any damage.  Make sure you tell him what happened and what to look for.

Dave


----------



## Clemson (Apr 13, 2011)

Bruz said:


> the only clue was a dent in the bolt face.



I'd say that a dent in the bolt face is reason enough to look further!!

Bill Jacobs
Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing
www.boltandbarrel.com


----------



## dawg4028 (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for your opinions.  My thoughts were to let a gunsmith handle it or send it back to remington.  We did have to drill out the casing were it would not eject.  I just hate that for being my first ever deer rifle.  

funny thing is that the bullet hit the target at only about 4 inches high at 75 yards.


----------



## jmoser (Apr 18, 2011)

dawg4028 said:


> Thanks for your opinions.  My thoughts were to let a gunsmith handle it or send it back to remington.  We did have to drill out the casing were it would not eject.  I just hate that for being my first ever deer rifle.
> 
> funny thing is that the bullet hit the target at only about 4 inches high at 75 yards.



I guess it is possible if the chamber shoulder area swaged the bullet down before it hit the .270 bore.

I think the bolt lugs and receiver should be X-rayed though, don't know how else to QC those parts.


----------



## BlackKnight755 (Apr 18, 2011)

Bruz said:


> Mr. Jacobs...with all due respect...I have a Rem 700 in 300WM that fired several Hornady factory rounds which were 6gr over charged...Visually you couldn't see an issue...headspace was fine...the only clue was a dent in the bolt face.
> 
> It was returned to Remington and they found that one lug was cracked to within .030 of shearing off and the other was about .075...both cracked almost to the point of failure. I would much rather use a private Smith for 99% of my work but when it comes to this sort of thing they simply don't have the diagnostic equipment to make sure it is safe.
> 
> ...



I am not doubting that you had a rifle that was damaged but I don't think that "several" rounds that were 6 grains overcharged did ALL the damage. 

I load 108 grains of H-1000 behind a 155 berger VLD and 98 grains behind a 210 Berger VLD in a Remington Ultra Mag that uses the same Remington magnum bolt that the win mag uses... and I would think that the pressures are somewhat more on the RUM loads that I shoot than the win mag loads, of course you are talking about 6 grains overcharge too... but try to find the charges in the book that I feed my RUM. I think that they will be somewhat "overcharged". I said that to say this, I have no problems with the bolt, or any other part of the rifle, showing any signs of damage. I dont even have any pressure signs other than the occasional flattened primer if I shoot in extremely hot weather.

**Please do not use ANY posted load data as it may not be safe in your firearm**


----------



## Bruz (Apr 18, 2011)

huntmore said:


> How many is several? One and several is way different. I think you gun may have already had a problem before the 6gr over.





Clemson said:


> I'd say that a dent in the bolt face is reason enough to look further!!
> 
> Bill Jacobs
> Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing
> www.boltandbarrel.com





BlackKnight755 said:


> I am not doubting that you had a rifle that was damaged but I don't think that "several" rounds that were 6 grains overcharged did ALL the damage.
> 
> I load 108 grains of H-1000 behind a 155 berger VLD and 98 grains behind a 210 Berger VLD in a Remington Ultra Mag that uses the same Remington magnum bolt that the win mag uses... and I would think that the pressures are somewhat more on the RUM loads that I shoot than the win mag loads, of course you are talking about 6 grains overcharge too... but try to find the charges in the book that I feed my RUM. I think that they will be somewhat "overcharged". I said that to say this, I have no problems with the bolt, or any other part of the rifle, showing any signs of damage. I dont even have any pressure signs other than the occasional flattened primer if I shoot in extremely hot weather.
> 
> **Please do not use ANY posted load data as it may not be safe in your firearm**



To all,

The rifle fired 8 of these rounds. Both the Hornady and Remington Engineers recommended the inspection after i weighed the powder. These were Hornady Heavy Magnum 150 SSTs so were already a "Hot" load which made it out of QC 6 grs over. 

I load for over 20 rifles and build some of my own. I will take the 2 Engineers opinions over any but a few Smiths that i happen to know personally. I also sent pics to several Nationally renowned Smiths and one who inspected it himself locally. They all said "it should be fine"  ....Really glad I didnt take their advice and hope the OP doesnt take yours. 

Robert


----------



## miles58 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bruz said:


> To all,
> 
> The rifle fired 8 of these rounds. Both the Hornady and Remington Engineers recommended the inspection after i weighed the powder. These were Hornady Heavy Magnum 150 SSTs so were already a "Hot" load which made it out of QC 6 grs over.
> 
> ...



What Bruz is saying is simple common sense!  You do not need a full six grains over max to bust a gun and get hurt bad.  Both lugs being more than 90% of the way to broken off is a nasty thing to think about.  One more round and the bolt would likely have exited the rear of the gun at pretty substantial velocity.

Why it didn't lock up tight or blow out through the relief hole and bust the stock is beyond me.

Even one round that far out of spec (or one 308 through a .270 bore) is ample reason to act with an abundance of caution considering the consequences of guessing wrong.  If you're lucky and it only costs you a finger, it still costs a lot more to go find a new finger and replace the old one than any inspection I could imagine.  And that says nothing about the loss of your resale value because the parts are now no longer factory original.

Dave


----------



## Bruz (Apr 19, 2011)

miles58 said:


> What Bruz is saying is simple common sense!  You do not need a full six grains over max to bust a gun and get hurt bad.  Both lugs being more than 90% of the way to broken off is a nasty thing to think about.  One more round and the bolt would likely have exited the rear of the gun at pretty substantial velocity.
> 
> Why it didn't lock up tight or blow out through the relief hole and bust the stock is beyond me.
> 
> ...



Thanks Dave,

That's all I'm trying to say. You never know how badly an item can be damaged from out of spec ammunition. I came very close to having a dangerous if not fatal incident with my rifle. With a little caution and 22 days back at Remington...my rifle is good for another few thousand rounds. 

With any firearm...always err on the side of caution. 

Robert


----------



## BlackKnight755 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bruz said:


> To all,
> 
> The rifle fired 8 of these rounds. Both the Hornady and Remington Engineers recommended the inspection after i weighed the powder. These were Hornady Heavy Magnum 150 SSTs so were already a "Hot" load which made it out of QC 6 grs over.
> 
> ...



Robert,

I got to thinking after I posted my post yesterday and 6 grains overcharge is alot. I was just thinking that there may have already been stress issues with your gun but 8 rounds with 6 grains overcharge per round may have done it. I am glad that you didnt send the 9th round down the pipe or like you said there could have been a catastrophic failure. Glad everything worked out for you.

And like you said, it is ALWAYS better to be safe and err on the side of caution. If you think there is a problem have someone with the right kind of diagnostic equipment check that problem out.

I still cant for the life of me figure out how a 308 was fired in the 270 without a catastrophic failure! I would at least take the advice of many on here and send it back to remington. They have the equipment to check for many types of problems that may have been caused by the 308 round being fired in the 270... just my 2 cents again, BK.


----------



## Bruz (Apr 19, 2011)

Bk

Thanks BK...This incident and a casehead seperation on some Hornady 270 rounds is why i now load for every centerfire I own. Fool me once shame on you....Fool me twice and I start loading everything
I may make a mistake one day pushing the envelope....but it will be MY mistake. 

Robert


----------



## rayjay (Apr 19, 2011)

The pictures I've seen of blown up rifles seems to indicate that the front receiver ring splits right inline with the scope mounting holes. 

The Remington '3 rings of steel' actually does work and is probably what saved you in this case. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the front of the bolt is expanded.


----------



## Gunplumber Mike (Apr 20, 2011)

Knowing that the bolt is three separate sections soldered together it surprises me that they hold together as well as they do.    I would feel better if they were built with a rear locking device like a Mauser, although they do hold up pretty well even made the way they are.


----------



## BlackKnight755 (Apr 21, 2011)

BlackKnight755 said:


> ...I load 108 grains of H-1000 behind a 155 berger VLD and 98 grains behind a 210 Berger VLD in a Remington Ultra Mag... but try to find the charges in the book that I feed my RUM. I think that they will be somewhat "overcharged".
> 
> **Please do not use ANY posted load data as it may not be safe in your firearm**



I had a few people ask how and why I shoot that much powder in the RUM (safely, without having pressure issues). For the how part, I had my gunsmith extend the throat on the chamber when he chambered the barrel so that I could seat the bullets out farther thereby getting more case capacity. BUT, just because you have more case capacity doesn't mean that you can safely shoot all the powder that you can get into the case! As with all my loads, I ALWAYS start below max load recomendations and work up to MY max. I also have a tight competition chamber and neck. I knew I was aiming for a very flat shooting  round when I had my rifle built so I had the chamber, neck and throat made to my specifications ( made it to shoot HOT loads). I also have a very long barrel to take advantage of the slow burning powders to gain what I call "free velocity", 32" barrel.

Now for the why... I shoot this high velocity (3970 fps on the 155's) for a reason. I want the flattest trajectory that I can possibly get. With a 100 yard zero, I only have to dial on 14 moa elevation to a 1000 yards! I think that shoots inside most everything that I've run into.

NEVER take anyones max or near max load data and start loading your ammunition! ALWAYS reduce the load and work up to your max load. If there are any signs of pressure, back off the load. No two rifle chambers are exactly alike, they will be close but not exactly the same. The difference in the size of the chamber can make all the difference in the world when it comes to max or near max loads. ALWAYS use extreme care and caution when working up around the maximum end of loads.


----------

