# not a hog in sight



## Greg45

Well I went to the same place I killed my avatar hog and it seems like hog doggers from nc have wiped them out and that sucks at least the doggers from Ga have respect and under standing on how to keep hogs around and some what under control with out wiping them out


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

yep . I saw two trucks up there thursday with NC. plates . found thier spoils today , dead hogs laying in the woods with the hams and tenderloins removed.  I guess they have thinned the population out in NC. now they working on these in GA.


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## Greg45

let me go when they are out i got some thing for them


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## Killer Kyle

Isn't it legal to run hogs in the NF?


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## bamaboy

So are you saying we should not kill'em all? I have been preached at since I have started hunting that "You kill every hog you can,they are not good for foodplots,farms,or deer" Is this not right? Not trying to be a smartelic, just trying to find out why we shouldn't kill'em all?


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## Ajohnson0587

I say kill'em all but leave me a couple lol. I think this is how the op feels too


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

bamaboy said:


> So are you saying we should not kill'em all? I have been preached at since I have started hunting that "You kill every hog you can,they are not good for foodplots,farms,or deer" Is this not right? Not trying to be a smartelic, just trying to find out why we shouldn't kill'em all?



I dont know about where you hunt , But i promise you if all the hogs in the N.G.A  mnts. are killed the only game left up here to hunt will be bears and squirrels. I think they do some good for all the inhabitants of mnts.  those pretty hard wood bottoms that get rooted up will sprout with new growth in the spring. the bottoms that dont get rooted up will be a foot deep in leaves with no new growth. Its the same as deer , if you kill the females your killing the future. JMO.


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

bamaboy said:


> So are you saying we should not kill'em all? I have been preached at since I have started hunting that "You kill every hog you can,they are not good for foodplots,farms,or deer" Is this not right? Not trying to be a smartelic, just trying to find out why we shouldn't kill'em all?



I forgot , up here there are no food plots,farming,or deer.


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## Greg45

its one thing to take a hog or two but to kill take a little meet and wast e the rest thats stupid and sorry and for the most part NEGA is correct they do help in many ways not only to they plow the ground I have found where they have killed yote pups and eaten them so dont get kill happy on the pigs


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## Greg45

yes it is legal but be smart about we do have hogs but not like Texas if it ever got that bad then every body would know how to tend to the prob but for now we have enough to at least enjoy running dogs and may be getting a hog on a still or spot and stalk hunt


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## Killer Kyle

Well,  I'm hunting up there where you're hunting.  I enjoy hunting those hogs, but I don't mind the dog runners.  Running dogs there is 100% legal and they have every right to be there.  They just as well may say "I wish all these still hunters wouldn't hunt and save some of the hogs for us".  That's a two way street.  Running dogs is an effective means of hog control, and quite honestly, they probably kill more hogs there than you and I do.  You don't have to worry about them running the hogs off.  Once you've got hogs, you will always have hogs.  You will never get rid of them.  That National Forest is a big national forest.  There's plenty of hogs, and plenty of places for them to go.  
The hogs might not be EXACTLY where you're hunting, but they are still there.  I'm hunting the National Forest right next to where you're hunting, and I have up to date trail cam pics of them, and have been seeing tons of sign.  Your biggest problem is them going completely nocturnal, not them going away.  They will always be there, just set out on foot and hunt where they are, not where they used to be. All hogs roam and move.


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## buddylee

You can dramatically thin the population out by killing to many. It's happening in other parts of the state.


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## Killer Kyle

You cannot kill too many.  They are an invasivespecies and our GOAL is to kill them ALL.  They are not supposed to be here and if you profess to be not only a hunter, but a steward of the environment, and if you do your part as a conservationist, you will see it as duty to kill every hog you encounter.  Just keeping them around because we like to hunt them is a self centered mindset.  Hunting them merely for fun is a short term benefit to us as hunters, but is a long term detriment to the environment.  It is a moral responsibility to take care of what we have, not just for ourselves, but for the future.  You may not see the environmental damage caused in your lifetime, but there willbe damage over thecourse of the coming decades and centuries.  The Georgia hog population is nearly at a rate of exponential growth.  So, when ehite tailed deer are functionally extinct two hundred years from now, I hope you rest easy knowing that the fault falls on you, and hunters like you who want to take from the land, yet not help it.  Out competition is howa species becomes committed to extinction each time, and every time.  I urge you, Greg, to set aside selfishness for one moment, and to look at the bigger picture.  Don't be part of the problem.  Take up your moral responsibility, and be part of the solution.


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## Killer Kyle

NEGA Hog Hunter said:


> I dont know about where you hunt , But i promise you if all the hogs in the N.G.A  mnts. are killed the only game left up here to hunt will be bears and squirrels. I think they do some good for all the inhabitants of mnts.  those pretty hard wood bottoms that get rooted up will sprout with new growth in the spring. the bottoms that dont get rooted up will be a foot deep in leaves with no new growth. Its the same as deer , if you kill the females your killing the future. JMO.



So....how did "new growth" occur BEFORE the hogs were here?  Therehas been foresthere as long as there has been land here. It can take care of itself withoutthehelp of a pig.  And the arguement about there being no other game in the mountains is absolutly incorrect.  Another forum member (TrouManJoe) and I were riding Upper Fannin County yesterday evening and saw about 25 deer on a 4 mile stretch of road.  Don't believe me?  Shoot him an e-mail and ask.  My friend's dad killed a ten point bruiser off of warwoman the other day.  I hunted the mountains the day before christmas, and saw four does. Yes there are deer in the mountains.  You have to hunt where deer are, not where the deer aren't.


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## Greg45

Well i hunt where deer use to be i hunted many differant placesthe problem is when u scout several miles in all directions and find zero deer sign that speeks for its self i know how when and where to hunt and i aint the only one in the woods that saw what i did nothing didnt see as much hog sign as i use to eather so take how u like i aint blind


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## PURVIS

Killer Kyle said:


> You cannot kill too many.  They are an invasivespecies and our GOAL is to kill them ALL.  They are not supposed to be here and if you profess to be not only a hunter, but a steward of the environment, and if you do your part as a conservationist, you will see it as duty to kill every hog you encounter.  Just keeping them around because we like to hunt them is a self centered mindset.  Hunting them merely for fun is a short term benefit to us as hunters, but is a long term detriment to the environment.  It is a moral responsibility to take care of what we have, not just for ourselves, but for the future.  You may not see the environmental damage caused in your lifetime, but there willbe damage over thecourse of the coming decades and centuries.  The Georgia hog population is nearly at a rate of exponential growth.  So, when ehite tailed deer are functionally extinct two hundred years from now, I hope you rest easy knowing that the fault falls on you, and hunters like you who want to take from the land, yet not help it.  Out competition is howa species becomes committed to extinction each time, and every time.  I urge you, Greg, to set aside selfishness for one moment, and to look at the bigger picture.  Don't be part of the problem.  Take up your moral responsibility, and be part of the solution.



KYLE u seem like a true outdoors men and from your profile u list yourself as a student so the gospel your preaching has been force feed to u,Kyle just view this with an open mind your telling things u believe to be facts from the same political system that runs our fed gov just how well is that turning out.a true conservationist believes it is mans intervention into this to does more harm than good its impossible for ones own agenda not to interfere.thats the chose made in 1927 with the restocking or more the stocking of deer program and has been preached untill today that deer are to be our game of chose and so far 85 years of our gov saying its so has made it that just that.u are of the mindset that they have given u that a few of your fellow outdoors men are trying to shine a true light on.yes there are places with to many hogs and places with to many deer yes its true to many deer just as we hog hunters have felled to keep the #s down so have the deer hunters and its at a great cost to farmers.i hunt some big clubs that feed heavy during deer season and when we ask do we need to help keep there feeders going spring thur summer they reply theres no need were surrounded by farm land.Kyle just do your own fact checking,just google wild hogs in ga. and u will find they been here 500 years and there no data on any long term damage to or forest, far less than anything logging it has done.Kyle lets start with u just put the koolaid down and open your eyes and look as u walk and hunt most all our forest damage is man made we can manage our hogs without the help of gov and have a great food resource that everyone in the family eats,most hate deer meat.we as hunters are on the same team we just need to act like it.Kyle those are some great photos on your profile by the way.sorry if i hijacked the post.


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

Killer Kyle said:


> So....how did "new growth" occur BEFORE the hogs were here?  Therehas been foresthere as long as there has been land here. It can take care of itself withoutthehelp of a pig.  And the arguement about there being no other game in the mountains is absolutly incorrect.  Another forum member (TrouManJoe) and I were riding Upper Fannin County yesterday evening and saw about 25 deer on a 4 mile stretch of road.  Don't believe me?  Shoot him an e-mail and ask.  My friend's dad killed a ten point bruiser off of warwoman the other day.  I hunted the mountains the day before christmas, and saw four does. Yes there are deer in the mountains.  You have to hunt where deer are, not where the deer aren't.


If you got a spot in the mnts. with 10 deer in a 4-mile stretch you have a honey hole that is most likely private. as for the buck at warwoman , tell the rest of the story. how many hunters were on the hunt and how many deer killed ? The forest in the mnts. does not get cut like it was 20 years ago , so no there is no new growth just piles of rotten leaves that have washed down in the bottoms.
You even sound like you actually believe all that smack your trying so hard to sell.  LOL.


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## Killer Kyle

PURVIS said:


> KYLE u seem like a true outdoors men and from your profile u list yourself as a student so the gospel your preaching has been force feed to u,Kyle just view this with an open mind your telling things u believe to be facts from the same political system that runs our fed gov just how well is that turning out.a true conservationist believes it is mans intervention into this to does more harm than good its impossible for ones own agenda not to interfere.thats the chose made in 1927 with the restocking or more the stocking of deer program and has been preached untill today that deer are to be our game of chose and so far 85 years of our gov saying its so has made it that just that.u are of the mindset that they have given u that a few of your fellow outdoors men are trying to shine a true light on.yes there are places with to many hogs and places with to many deer yes its true to many deer just as we hog hunters have felled to keep the #s down so have the deer hunters and its at a great cost to farmers.i hunt some big clubs that feed heavy during deer season and when we ask do we need to help keep there feeders going spring thur summer they reply theres no need were surrounded by farm land.Kyle just do your own fact checking,just google wild hogs in ga. and u will find they been here 500 years and there no data on any long term damage to or forest, far less than anything logging it has done.Kyle lets start with u just put the koolaid down and open your eyes and look as u walk and hunt most all our forest damage is man made we can manage our hogs without the help of gov and have a great food resource that everyone in the family eats,most hate deer meat.we as hunters are on the same team we just need to act like it.Kyle those are some great photos on your profile by the way.sorry if i hijacked the post.


 
Of course hogs have been here for over 500 years.  Everyone knows that.  Their numbers are growing at an exponential rate just like the human population's.  There were few to begin with, and now there are too many.  And I agree, most of the damage is manmade.  Overcomleting, just like I said.  Thanks for confirming my point.  And I never even mentioned a word about getting the federal government.  Where on earth did you get that from.  My point was simply:   kill every hog.


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## Killer Kyle

NEGA Hog Hunter said:


> If you got a spot in the mnts. with 10 deer in a 4-mile stretch you have a honey hole that is most likely private. as for the buck at warwoman , tell the rest of the story. how many hunters were on the hunt and how many deer killed ? The forest in the mnts. does not get cut like it was 20 years ago , so no there is no new growth just piles of rotten leaves that have washed down in the bottoms.
> You even sound like you actually believe all that smack your trying so hard to sell.  LOL.



I don't know how many other hunterd there were, but he and his son also scored on big deer in other places in the NF.  I agree there aren't the numbers that there are in South and Central GA, but they're there.  Remember what I said about overcompetition?  Think about this:  less hogs = more food = more deer.  Easy concept. I actually do believe the smack I'm trying to sell.  Glad somebody noticed.


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

Killer Kyle said:


> I don't know how many other hunterd there were, but he and his son also scored on big deer in other places in the NF.  I agree there aren't the numbers that there are in South and Central GA, but they're there.  Remember what I said about overcompetition?  Think about this:  less hogs = more food = more deer.  Easy concept.


LOL.  alot of hunters and thats the only deer i know of killed.  I didnt say you couldnt find one in the mnts , there deffinately is not what i would consider a huntable population.  think about this : less deer = more hogs .   acorns rot on the ground up here . You believe what you want and i will beliave what i see.   what about the 4-mile stretch .   private ?


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## PURVIS

Killer Kyle said:


> Of course hogs have been here for over 500 years.  Everyone knows that.  Their numbers are growing at an exponential rate just like the human population's.  There were few to begin with, and now there are too many.  And I agree, most of the damage is manmade.  Overcomleting, just like I said.  Thanks for confirming my point.  And I never even mentioned a word about getting the federal government.  Where on earth did you get that from.  My point was simply:   kill every hog.



the facts u are using just sound like they came from usda estimated data i repeat estimated and has been helped along by 3 tv shows saying there taking over the world to boost they rating.what if we shared the same view about the deer and don't think our farmers don't preach it to us kill every deer u see spots and all.drought has more to do with the deers food supply than any other factor.just start a neutral stance on this and let the forest speak for itself if theres to many hogs kill a few if theres to many deer kill some more does if u believe in management start by filling all those deer tags like they want u to.


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## Killer Kyle

NEGA Hog Hunter said:


> LOL.  alot of hunters and thats the only deer i know of killed.  I didnt say you couldnt find one in the mnts , there deffinately is not what i would consider a huntable population.  think about this : less deer = more hogs .   acorns rot on the ground up here . You believe what you want and i will beliave what i see.   what about the 4-mile stretch .   private ?



Yep. Private.  All you have to do is pony up and buy 100 acres and its as easy as that.


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## Killer Kyle

PURVIS said:


> the facts u are using just sound like they came from usda estimated data i repeat estimated and has been helped along by 3 tv shows saying there taking over the world to boost they rating.what if we shared the same view about the deer and don't think our farmers don't preach it to us kill every deer u see spots and all.drought has more to do with the deers food supply than any other factor.just start a neutral stance on this and let the forest speak for itself if theres to many hogs kill a few if theres to many deer kill some more does if u believe in management start by filling all those deer tags like they want u to.



I'm not really sure what t.v. shows you're referencing, but remember, you can't view the deer the same way because they are a native species that are SUPPOSED to be here. The arguement is that deer are supposed to be here, and hogs aren't.  Native vs. NON native.  So by saying "there are too many deer, kill every one you see", you are out competing them just like the hogs are outcompeting them.  My point is to encourage people to protect the native, eradicate the invasive.


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## PURVIS

Killer Kyle said:


> I'm not really sure what t.v. shows you're referencing, but remember, you can't view the deer the same way because they are a native species that are SUPPOSED to be here. The arguement is that deer are supposed to be here, and hogs aren't.  Native vs. NON native.  So by saying "there are too many deer, kill every one you see", you are out competing them just like the hogs are outcompeting them.  My point is to encourage people to protect the native, eradicate the invasive.



by whos judgement are u to say whats native and not if there where here before us like in 250 years before ga was a even a state.kyle the argument falls back to whos chose was this.i can answer u the same ones who thought kudzu would stop soil erosion and the coyote would be fun to hunt and chose not to eradicate the fire ant before they spread and 100s of plants and weeds not native to our state as u call it.i wonder if the Indians called us Non-Native Invasive Species i'm sure they wanted to kill us all.LOL.good luck to u killer kyle may u killem all just save greg a few to feed his family thats all hes trying to say.


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## Killer Kyle

Yep, those species came to my mind as well.  I thoughtabout listing kudzu, fireants, ect.  For instance kudzu can provide one benefit:  cows love to eat it.  But the bad outweighs the good.  Same with hogs.  Is there good?  Yes.  Hunting opportunities, free food, alleged new growth resulting from rooting.  Is there detriment?  Yes.  Disease, overpopulation, depletion of food sources, invasion of private properties.  I guess ultimately it is in the eye of the beholder. As for me, I will shoot each and every hog I see, without discretion.  Anf if ten hogs wander into my trap, ten will die, and ten will be eaten.


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## PURVIS

Killer Kyle said:


> Yep, those species came to my mind as well.  I thoughtabout listing kudzu, fireants, ect.  For instance kudzu can provide one benefit:  cows love to eat it.  But the bad outweighs the good.  Same with hogs.  Is there good?  Yes.  Hunting opportunities, free food, alleged new growth resulting from rooting.  Is there detriment?  Yes.  Disease, overpopulation, depletion of food sources, invasion of private properties.  I guess ultimately it is in the eye of the beholder. As for me, I will shoot each and every hog I see, without discretion.  Anf if ten hogs wander into my trap, ten will die, and ten will be eaten.



i suppose this is what we call agreeing to disagree but don't get me wrong we kill over 100 a year, have to our farmers need everything they can grow to survive now a days and hogs are invasive i just don't buy the part about being told there non native i know when it comes down to it so are we.keep drinking that kool-aid.


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

Killer Kyle said:


> Yep. Private.  All you have to do is pony up and buy 100 acres and its as easy as that.



I guess that was your 100 acres . LOL  You should be thankful that the local hunters dont share your beliefs  or you could save your gas and stay in the city , because there wouldnt be anything up here for you to hunt. As purvis said we just disagree , its all good , no hard feelings.  We all enjoy the same thing , the great outdoors !


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## Killer Kyle

That is correct indeed.  We are an invasive species, and look at all the good we have done for the environment!  I'm not really sure about your repeted use of the Kool aid adage, or its relevance to the topic at hand, but I'm just gonna let you have that win.  You sound like you need it.


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## Killer Kyle

NEGA Hog Hunter said:


> I guess that was your 100 acres . LOL  You should be thankful that the local hunters dont share your beliefs  or you could save your gas and stay in the city , because there wouldnt be anything up here for you to hunt. As purvis said we just disagree , its all good , no hard feelings.  We all enjoy the same thing , the great outdoors !



Nope, that certainly wasn't my land.  Only a rich man could afford to buy 100 acres of mountain land.  I'll probably never be able to afford an acre myself.


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## Greg45

PURVIS said:


> by whos judgement are u to say whats native and not if there where here before us like in 250 years before ga was a even a state.kyle the argument falls back to whos chose was this.i can answer u the same ones who thought kudzu would stop soil erosion and the coyote would be fun to hunt and chose not to eradicate the fire ant before they spread and 100s of plants and weeds not native to our state as u call it.i wonder if the Indians called us Non-Native Invasive Species i'm sure they wanted to kill us all.LOL.good luck to u killer kyle may u killem all just save greg a few to feed his family thats all hes trying to say.



Well put Purvis my mind knows what it wants to say but my fingers cant seem to hit the write keys lol


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## Greg45

Killer Kyle said:


> You cannot kill too many.  They are an invasivespecies and our GOAL is to kill them ALL.  They are not supposed to be here and if you profess to be not only a hunter, but a steward of the environment, and if you do your part as a conservationist, you will see it as duty to kill every hog you encounter.  Just keeping them around because we like to hunt them is a self centered mindset.  Hunting them merely for fun is a short term benefit to us as hunters, but is a long term detriment to the environment.  It is a moral responsibility to take care of what we have, not just for ourselves, but for the future.  You may not see the environmental damage caused in your lifetime, but there willbe damage over thecourse of the coming decades and centuries.  The Georgia hog population is nearly at a rate of exponential growth.  So, when ehite tailed deer are functionally extinct two hundred years from now, I hope you rest easy knowing that the fault falls on you, and hunters like you who want to take from the land, yet not help it.  Out competition is howa species becomes committed to extinction each time, and every time.  I urge you, Greg, to set aside selfishness for one moment, and to look at the bigger picture.  Don't be part of the problem.  Take up your moral responsibility, and be part of the solution.



The funny thing is you say all this stuff but how much do you be leave lol I bet the hogs are saying kill all humans and there dogs  you see it seems that the discussion is over your head when I made my post I have no problem with hunters running dogs heck I want to go with NEGA and run with him one day I am saying if your gonna kill hogs deer bear tree rats or over grown chickens like your avatar do it responsibly and dont over kill


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## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> The funny thing is you say all this stuff but how much do you be leave lol I bet the hogs are saying kill all humans and there dogs  you see it seems that the discussion is over your head when I made my post I have no problem with hunters running dogs heck I want to go with NEGA and run with him one day I am saying if your gonna kill hogs deer bear tree rats or over grown chickens like your avatar do it responsibly and dont over kill



...and the discussion seems over YOUR head when I try to communicate to you that you cannot overkill. Kill them all. And I believe what I say and say what I believe.  My  daddy taught be better than to open my mouth and say something that I dont believe.  A house built on sand will not stand.


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## Greg45




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## Greg45

I dont under stand how you can say you cant over kill no you may not kill all the hogs in the state but you can kill out in sections in which over kill has been done now I aint saying all the hogs are gone from where I am hunting I am saying if the fools that kill take a ham or two some tenders and leave  the rest and do this every time they hit the woods yes you can over kill


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## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


>


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## Greg45

the best way to ease tension is to laugh it you cant laugh then you are stuck in the


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## Boar Hog

Kill every single pig you see, don't leave even one! Six months later, you will see hog sign. We have killed way more than we could eat or give away. We pile them up and burn them to prevent disease. It's legal to kill as many as you desire for a reason.


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## catahoulahunter

I never posted on here but the recent trouble over hog doggin has gotten to me. The dang deer is not really a native species to the North GA mountains either if you think about it. GA was worried about the small deer population as early as 1773. They placed game laws even then to help a thin population that drifted from Virginia.  They stocked them in the northern part of the state in the 1940's to help an isolated population pushed from the Southern part of GA that took refuge in the undeveloped parts. The wild hog was here way before these mountains seen any substantial evidence of deer. Look at a mountain hog compared to a Texas hog. The Russian genes are definitely there. Our strain is very very old, not some pack of pigs thats only a couple generations off of the farm. The USDA is pushing the eradication of feral pigs because they do cause alot of damage due to their large population and ability to quickly produce healthy offspring because of the favorable conditions (ex.lots of crop fields, feed lots, and etc.) heir numbers increased exponentially in that part of the country because of a large amount of domesticated stock brought by the Spanish in the 1500's. There were more pigs in Texas and LA to begin with. The stock of mountain hogs come from a few Eurasian wild boars brought to NC by some rich folks in about 1910 that crossed with some free range hogs brought to Appalachia many years before . Our mountain hogs are as wild and native as any pine goats. There were more hogs here first which technically makes the growth of deer herds just as "invasive." I've hunted many a long hour even with dogs and seen no pig sign like all the Texas boys talk about.


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## Boar Hog

Greg45 said:


> I dont under stand how you can say you cant over kill no you may not kill all the hogs in the state but you can kill out in sections in which over kill has been done now I aint saying all the hogs are gone from where I am hunting I am saying if the fools that kill take a ham or two some tenders and leave  the rest and do this every time they hit the woods yes you can over kill



You cannot over kill wild hogs, I have tried!


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## rosewood

catahoulahunter said:


> There were more hogs here first which technically makes the growth of deer herds just as "invasive." I've hunted many a long hour even with dogs and seen no pig sign like all the Texas boys talk about.



Yeah, but.....We like deer, they are pretty and look nice on our wall


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## jigman29

I have hunted here all my life and have been a hog hunter for the last 15 years.I will tell you that the hogs do a lot of damage but I have saw where a big gang of turkeys go through a mountain holler and don't leave a piece of ground untouched.Nobody gripes about them vaccuming all the available acorns up lol.I do thing the hogs need to be worked on to keep the numbers down but I don't believe they are the boogeyman everyone says.The old timers ran hogs loose in the woods for centuries and never seemed to have a negative impact.


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## PURVIS

jigman29 said:


> I have hunted here all my life and have been a hog hunter for the last 15 years.I will tell you that the hogs do a lot of damage but I have saw where a big gang of turkeys go through a mountain holler and don't leave a piece of ground untouched.Nobody gripes about them vaccuming all the available acorns up lol.I do thing the hogs need to be worked on to keep the numbers down but I don't believe they are the boogeyman everyone says.The old timers ran hogs loose in the woods for centuries and never seemed to have a negative impact.



Here is man that has been a outdoors man and hunter that lets his eyes and just plain old common sense tell him the truth about our wild life in ga.we need more of this and let your common sense tell us how to manage our game.most our game have no natural predators just us to keep it in check.we all know form the dove shoots to fish caught and deer turned in to ga.game theres no real harvest numbers on this stuff most of its just a estimate.


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## NEGA Hog Hunter

PURVIS said:


> Here is man that has been a outdoors man and hunter that lets his eyes and just plain old common sense tell him the truth about our wild life in ga.we need more of this and let your common sense tell us how to manage our game.most our game have no natural predators just us to keep it in check.we all know form the dove shoots to fish caught and deer turned in to ga.game theres no real harvest numbers on this stuff most of its just a estimate.


   it might have something to do with where he is from.    unlike the city folk trying to tell others how to manage their local resources.


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## HOGDOG76

Think about this:  less hogs = more food = more deer.[/QUOTE] Im not saying im not for knocking numbers down but i dont buy this logic. Best deer populations are sw or middle ga,same two places with the highest hog populations.


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## Greg45

May be it is Back


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## Greg45

Skeester said:


> When you get on a public forum and publicly tell everyone out there where you're seeing and killing lots of hogs or whatever you have no one to blame but yourself when lots of outsiders show up and start killing everything.
> 
> There's an old saying "silence is a virtue"



Well when it is a well known Public place I can be as silent as a feather floating in the wind it will still get run down by selfish fools


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## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> OK OK OK the point I was trying to make is people come in and run hogs deer tree rats skunk snakes what ever I was raised with the respect of mother nature if you aint gonna take it from the woods and eat it dont shoot it my point is dont waste what the big man upstairs gave us he can surly take it away respect what we have or we wont have it long



Nothing within the above statement was anywhere in your original post.  So if this was your point, that point should have been indicated in the original post, and this entire post and discussion would have taken a completely different direction.  Your original posting was complaining about dog runners running off the hogs and wiping them out, and now you say your point was about not wasting meat. Two different topics.  And I think skeester is correct.  Loose lips sink ships. Tell everyone where the hogs are, and that's where everyone will be.  You basically just said "no matter how quiet I am, it will still get overrun by hunters anyway, so it doesnt matter if I talk about it on an open forum".  That mentality is exactly what it takes to ruin a good spot.   
Also, here is some food for thought:  rather than complaining about hunting pressure on an open forum, why don't you just go find the hogs? You said you were hunting the spot where you killed the hog in your avatar.  Well, aren't you aware that all hogs shift and move, especially mountain hogs?  Food, weather, hunting pressure, moon phases......all of those are contributing factors in hog movents.  If the hogs have moved.......then MOVE.  Hunt where the hogs are, not where they aren't.  They won't be in the same place all the time.  That's why its called hunting......because you have to HUNT.  You say the hogs aren't there, but I'm hunting close to where you hunt, and another forum member and I teamed up Tuesday and guess what?  We set out on foot, and went and FOUND fresh hog sign...sign from just the day before.  So instead of sulking about things you can't control, take charge of what you CAN control and go find the hogs.  Flexibility is a fundamental aspect of public land hunting.  If your spot isn't working out..........find a new spot.


----------



## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> Well when it is a well known Public place I can be as silent as a feather floating in the wind it will still get run down by selfish fools



And you may want to be considerate and specific about whom you address as "selfish fools" on this forum.  I know some of the dog runners up there, and some of them are jam up guys who are very experienced, skilled, and all around great sportsmen.  If you choose to resort to name calling, remember that the actions of the wasteful few dont reflect upon all the dog runners up there as a whole.  Some of those guys are outstanding hunters, and are active on this forum. The mods frown upon such statements.


----------



## Killer Kyle

HOGDOG76 said:


> Think about this:  less hogs = more food = more deer.


 Im not saying im not for knocking numbers down but i dont buy this logic. Best deer populations are sw or middle ga,same two places with the highest hog populations.[/QUOTE]

HOGDOG76......before I even reply to your post, let me state this:  your profile says you're from Sylvester, GA.  I went to google maps and googled Sylvester, GA.  Your city is smack dab in the middle between Albany and Tifton.  When I look at satellite images of your city, all I see surrounding your city for miles upon miles upon miles....is cropland.  That whole region surrounding your city is literally nothing but field after field of agricultural crops....also commonly referred to as food.  Lest ye forget, friend.....agriculture.  Food.  Last time I was traversing ridges on Chattahoochee  WMA, I didn't see any cornfields.  And last time I was climbing a mountain on Warwoman, I didn't see any peanut fields.  And last time I was scouting off of the AT, I failed to notice any soybean fields.  In the regions you reference, there's enough food to go around. Agricultural crops, native hard and soft mass, and food plots.  The animals in sylvester don't know nutritional hardship in the winter like the mountain animals do.  When people talk about how the logging improved the mountain deer hunting in the 70's, and 80's......how do you think that helped the deer and increased the populations?  Primarily, food.  Let me give you an example:  Fifteen people could easily share a buffet.  Fifteen people could NOT easily share a happy meal.


----------



## ekr

Skeester said:


> When you get on a public forum and publicly tell everyone out there where you're seeing and killing lots of hogs or whatever you have no one to blame but yourself when lots of outsiders show up and start killing everything.
> 
> There's an old saying "silence is a virtue"



I was wondering when someone will come out with this. I do remember a post about inviting anyone with dogs to bring em come January and run them hogs down.  If you invite and they come, why are you complaining.

But don't worry Greg.  These hogs are like weeds on your lawn.  It don't matter how many times you pull em out...they just keep popping back up.  Come next season...the lawn will have plenty of weeds to go around again.


----------



## Greg45

Killer Kyle said:


> Nothing within the above statement was anywhere in your original post.  So if this was your point, that point should have been indicated in the original post, and this entire post and discussion would have taken a completely different direction.  Your original posting was complaining about dog runners running off the hogs and wiping them out, and now you say your point was about not wasting meat. Two different topics.  And I think skeester is correct.  Loose lips sink ships. Tell everyone where the hogs are, and that's where everyone will be.  You basically just said "no matter how quiet I am, it will still get overrun by hunters anyway, so it doesnt matter if I talk about it on an open forum".  That mentality is exactly what it takes to ruin a good spot.
> Also, here is some food for thought:  rather than complaining about hunting pressure on an open forum, why don't you just go find the hogs? You said you were hunting the spot where you killed the hog in your avatar.  Well, aren't you aware that all hogs shift and move, especially mountain hogs?  Food, weather, hunting pressure, moon phases......all of those are contributing factors in hog movents.  If the hogs have moved.......then MOVE.  Hunt where the hogs are, not where they aren't.  They won't be in the same place all the time.  That's why its called hunting......because you have to HUNT.  You say the hogs aren't there, but I'm hunting close to where you hunt, and another forum member and I teamed up Tuesday and guess what?  We set out on foot, and went and FOUND fresh hog sign...sign from just the day before.  So instead of sulking about things you can't control, take charge of what you CAN control and go find the hogs.  Flexibility is a fundamental aspect of public land hunting.  If your spot isn't working out..........find a new spot.



well kyle i the it is funny because the first post is the same as the post you  just posted on are and do meen the same just worded differant lol


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## Greg45

Killer Kyle said:


> And you may want to be considerate and specific about whom you address as "selfish fools" on this forum.  I know some of the dog runners up there, and some of them are jam up guys who are very experienced, skilled, and all around great sportsmen.  If you choose to resort to name calling, remember that the actions of the wasteful few dont reflect upon all the dog runners up there as a whole.  Some of those guys are outstanding hunters, and are active on this forum. The mods frown upon such statements.


 Okay the selfish fools I am talking about are the ones that get out there and kill kill kill with no respect a regards for anybody else being able to go out and hunt
  yes there are several hog hunters the get out there with dogs that do respect and understand what's going on and know when and when not to kill so for those hunters I thank you


----------



## Greg45

And 1 thing to remember North Georgia is not over run with hogs like South Georgia might be or texas or Florida yes hogs are up north and there are several hogs but nothing like South Georgia Florida Texas Louisiana so a little bit a respect up here for the hunters the don't have dogs for the hunters that go out there with dogs that love to run and train their dogs that is what I'm talking about that is what we like to do to get out hunt run are dogs and have fun when you get out there and you kill hogs and you cut pieces of meat off and leave the rest that ticks me off


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## Greg45

Well the place I hunt is no secret its been there for many many yearsso if i mums the word or not they will go there but i never said exactly whete i hunt its a big mnt


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## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> its a big mnt



BOOM.  Secret revealed.  See, you've mentioned certained locations in other threads.  I know this because I know where you hunt and pay attention to your threads and posts, and take note when you give relative locations.  I can piece together what you say and find out where you hunt.  It's called cyber scouting, and I'm good at it.  I can guarantee that a lot of other forum members on here are as well. Mountains aren't as big as you may imagine.  Being tight lipped often pays.


----------



## ekr

all a good hunter needs to know is the area.  If you give 'em the mountain, they will find the gold.  If you give em a desert, they will find the oasis.  There's a ton of porkers in kroger btw.  That's where  I bag 62% of my hogs.  Go get yourself some meat guys.


----------



## nockemstiff

ekr said:


> There's a ton of porkers in kroger btw.  That's where  I bag 62% of my hogs.  Go get yourself some meat guys.



  

Honestly though, it sure would be nice to be able to talk openly but a lot of times you cannot even do that within the club itself much less on the open forum. It a tricky thing. Live and learn. Greg you seem like a real class guy, I wouldn't sweat it. Just do your thing and have fun doing it.


----------



## Greg45

Ok kyle since your such a grate hunter where on the big mnt am i hunting if you can tell me that then may i might start beleaving some of this hubbub thats in this thread


----------



## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> well kyle i the it is funny because the first post is the same as the post you  just posted on are and do meen the same just worded differant lol



Why did you delete your post about the point you were trying to make?  Or maybe it just disappeared.  Nevertheles, it's a good thing that I saved it!  Aaaah.  Here it is:



Greg45 said:


> Well I went to the same place I killed my avatar hog and it seems like hog doggers from nc have wiped them out and that sucks at least the doggers from Ga have respect and under standing on how to keep hogs around and some what under control with out wiping them out






Greg45 said:


> OK OK OK the point I was trying to make is people come in and run hogs deer tree rats skunk snakes what ever I was raised with the respect of mother nature if you aint gonna take it from the woods and eat it dont shoot it my point is dont waste what the big man upstairs gave us he can surly take it away respect what we have or we wont have it long



I see two different arguments here.  I am no reading comprehension expert, but I believe myself to be a pretty well-read individual.  What I derrive from is the first statement, to paraphrase, is "Don't kill all the hogs and ruin spots for other hunters".  To paraphrase the second statement "Don't kill hogs and waste the meat".  If you are going to argue that an apple is an apple, do not say that an apple is an orange, and mid-conversation backtrack and say an apple is an apple.  It takes the conversation in an entirely different direction. See, I disagree with your initial statement, but I fully agree with your later statement.


----------



## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> Ok kyle since your such a grate hunter where on the big mnt am i hunting if you can tell me that then may i might start beleaving some of this hubbub thats in this thread



Never once have I claimed to be a great hunter.  I didn't start big game hunting until I was eighteen, and I'm only twenty six now.  I'm still in the learning curve.  I can even bet that you have killed many, many more hogs than me.  It doesn't take an expert to know the fundamental principles of hunting.  One of those principles is to respect other hunter's rights and privilages.  I would never and will never advertise your spots.  Not only would that serve detriment to you, but it could severly degrade the quality of my hunting spots, and the spots of other hunters on this forum.  I am hardly concerned whether or not the participants here see me post where you're hunting.  The debate is between your statements.  I'm trying to keep the debait at hand going, and not rabbit trailing.  Can you?


----------



## bfriendly

Killer Kyle said:


> Never once have I claimed to be a great hunter.  I didn't start big game hunting until I was eighteen, and I'm only twenty six now.  I'm still in the learning curve.  I can even bet that you have killed many, many more hogs than me.  It doesn't take an expert to know the fundamental principles of hunting.  One of those principles is to respect other hunter's rights and privilages.  I would never and will never advertise your spots.  Not only would that serve detriment to you, but it could severly degrade the quality of my hunting spots, and the spots of other hunters on this forum.  I am hardly concerned whether or not the participants here see me post where you're hunting.  The debate is between your statements.  I'm trying to keep the debait at hand going, and not rabbit trailing.  Can you?



ya'll are crackin me up..........Its different strokes, folks etc....

I have no Problem with anything done Hog wise(That I can think of), but would prefer to have the "Wipe Out" attitude remain away from my Pinelog, which is WHERE I HUNT

I would even prefer there was NO Dog hunt there(Like the one coming up in Feb), but I certainly have no hard feelings about it

However, if'n I ever get down South to one of my farming friends places(Like Sons) who is getting hurt by the effects of Pigs, I will kill as many as I can and leave them for the Yotes..........then kill them when I see them....


----------



## Killer Kyle

A little of both bfriendly.  I like your style.


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## Ronnie T

bfriendly said:


> ya'll are crackin me up..........Its different strokes, folks etc....
> 
> I have no Problem with anything done Hog wise(That I can think of), but would prefer to have the "Wipe Out" attitude remain away from my Pinelog, which is WHERE I HUNT
> 
> I would even prefer there was NO Dog hunt there(Like the one coming up in Feb), but I certainly have no hard feelings about it
> 
> However, if'n I ever get down South to one of my farming friends places(Like Sons) who is getting hurt by the effects of Pigs, I will kill as many as I can and leave them for the Yotes..........then kill them when I see them....



In the N Florida/SW Georgia area hogs can destroy 10 acres of planted peanuts a night.  Even young cotton.  Hogs love to root around in the soft soil.
A farmer friend of mine uses LP gas powered cannons on the edges of his fields to keep the hogs scared away during the night.  It helps some.
So far, none of the hunting and trapping has reduced the hog population.
.


----------



## Greg45

OK OK OK the point I was trying to make is people come in and run hogs deer tree rats skunk snakes what ever I was raised with the respect of mother nature if you aint gonna take it from the woods and eat it dont shoot it my point is dont waste what the big man upstairs gave us he can surly take it away respect what we have or we wont have it long


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## Greg45

yep I was right you see kyle if you reed the first post and this post I do be leave they mean the same but are worded different I am so sorry for confusing but yes lets do keep it going I need a good   once in a while


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## Greg45

now back to the matter at hand it is said you will never wipe out the pigs ok say you go and find a pack of pigs 2 bores five and may be 6 sows there are 4 people hunting you kill the bore and 4 out of six sows wound one and dont find it you dress the sows and find that all 4 sows had baby's and each sow had six in her and the sow that got away also had six baby's so insted of five on the truck and one lost in the woods dead from her wounds you have actually killed 36 pigs oh and the one that got away was not in breeding mode so you kill the breeder bore and five sows plus the baby's a total of 36 pigs you do that every week end by by pigs


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## Killer Kyle

But you're basing your example off the assumption that every hog in GA is being hunted.  By the example you just gave five or six hogs were hunted and five or six died.  But that is not the case in real hunting statistics.  A sound of hogs might get hunted and killed one night, but there are tens of thousands of other hogs in the Chatt NF that DIDN'T get hunted. You're saying that if there are 1,000,000 in Georgia, that all the hogs are being hunted and killed.  You only gave the example of five or six hogs bring hunted and five or six being killed.  You forget that the hogs hunted and killed in Georgia are only a FRACTION of the total hog population. Also, hunter success rates aren't virtually 100% like in your example.  I'd be good to kill a hog once every 12-15 hunts.   The hog to hunter ratio is far, far too high in Georgia for us to be able to wipe out a population.  What you're experiencing at your hunting spot isn't people wiping out the hogs, its the effects of heavy hunting pressure driving the hogs elsewhere. Also, hogs have different reproduction and survival rates of their young.  Deer might have between 1-3 offspring with a 25% survival rate or so.  Sows can have up to 14-16 piglets.  That sets hog population growth at an exponential growth rate and given hunter-to-breeding sow ratio, we cannot cause a reversed trend in population growth.


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## Greg45

so I see you dont read any other post there is a post five killed all had baby's lol so yes all hogs in Ga are being hunted lol


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## Killer Kyle

I do.  And I happen to know the poster of the very thread you're referencing.  Those were five hogs out of how many hundred on that piece of property?  And five of how many in Georgia?  I'll guarantee you that there are hogs in Georgia that aren't being hunted.  In the rough terrain of mountains in N.E. Georgia, in the Coastal Plains, in south Georgia swamps and central Georgia thickets.  There are TONS of hogs in Georgia, many that will never even lay eyes on a human being, and that will live and reproduce litter upon litter upon litter over the course of several years.


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## Ronnie T

Greg45 said:


> OK OK OK the point I was trying to make is people come in and run hogs deer tree rats skunk snakes what ever I was raised with the respect of mother nature if you aint gonna take it from the woods and eat it dont shoot it my point is dont waste what the big man upstairs gave us he can surly take it away respect what we have or we wont have it long



Totally agree with you.


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## Greg45

thanks Ronnie T it just seems that people just dont under that fack of over kill and destruction its a known fack if a animal is disturbed to much in its habitat it will move but it can also cause them to stop breeding like they normally would thus the effect of over kill


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## Greg45

Eker I under stand what you are saying may be I should have made my invites moor clear to some spot and stalk I have no problem running dogs and taking a pig or two I just dont agree with killing more than you can eat or give away people are complaining we have to many yotes in the woods well stop feeding them by killing some thing and leaving it for them to eat


----------



## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> thanks Ronnie T it just seems that people just dont under that fack of over kill and destruction its a known fack if a animal is disturbed to much in its habitat it will move but it can also cause them to stop breeding like they normally would thus the effect of over kill



And some folks do not understand that you cannot over kill something that you are trying to eradicate.  The more killing, the better!


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## Greg45

why eradicate one thing if we are going to do this lets do it right kill every thing then we can save money by not being able to hunt lets kill all the yotes turkey deer bear tree rats rabbits every thing or do you think that is impossible as well


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## kc65

feral pig facts...one of the most intelligent species found in the u.s. 85% of diet is vegetation , including crops where available, eat 5% of body weight daily, once they reach 10 to 15 lbs predation is not an issue, they compete with native wildlife for hard mast crops, rooting causes leaf litter decomposition causing the loss of vital nutrients which impacts seedling survival rate of trees, especially long leaf pines, whitetail deer will immediately vacate an area where feral hogs show up, half hearted attempts to control them just makes them less susceptible to future control efforts... I say kill em when u c them....


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## jyfishing

Greg45 said:


> I have no problem running dogs and taking a pig or two I just dont agree with killing more than you can eat or give away people



I shoot n kill what the law allows....No limit on feral hog!


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## Killer Kyle

kc65 said:


> feral pig facts...one of the most intelligent species found in the u.s. 85% of diet is vegetation , including crops where available, eat 5% of body weight daily, once they reach 10 to 15 lbs predation is not an issue, they compete with native wildlife for hard mast crops, rooting causes leaf litter decomposition causing the loss of vital nutrients which impacts seedling survival rate of trees, especially long leaf pines, whitetail deer will immediately vacate an area where feral hogs show up, half hearted attempts to control them just makes them less susceptible to future control efforts... I say kill em when u c them....



Biiinnggooo!  If hogs didn't do damage to crops, Hog Swat wouldn't be in business.


----------



## Killer Kyle

Greg45 said:


> why eradicate one thing if we are going to do this lets do it right kill every thing then we can save money by not being able to hunt lets kill all the yotes turkey deer bear tree rats rabbits every thing or do you think that is impossible as well



All you had to do was refer to my post about offspring reproduction and survival rates, and your question about wiping out other species would have been answered before you asked it.  Yes its possible to wipe out species with lower offspring production.  Thats why we had to restock deer.  I can't recall a single instance where a farmer complained about squirrels damaging his crops.  And nobody ever mentioned anything about eradicating the NATIVE species like squirrels, deer, and raccoons, or anything about saving money.  You just pulled that out of thin air and it has nothing to do with your arguement that hogs should not be wiped out.  Your arguing points have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.


----------



## Greg45

jyfishing said:


> I shoot n kill what the law allows....No limit on feral hog!



But do you waist what you shoot and what would you do if you had no hogs to hunt there is a differance


----------



## jyfishing

Greg45 said:


> But do you waist what you shoot and what would you do if you had no hogs to hunt there is a differance



To each their own field dressing feral hog.  I have no right to tell how OP butcher their hog and they have no right to tell me how I butcher my hog.


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## Greg45

Going to a new spot in the morning I know pigs will be there because its a place that people dont go but I am giving it a shot


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## Greg45

jyfishing said:


> To each their own field dressing feral hog.  I have no right to tell how OP butcher their hog and they have no right to tell me how I butcher my hog.



Well jyfishing actually I aint telling any body how to field dress a pig shoot I can field  dress a pig and leave the useless stuff behind


----------



## Greg45

Well kyle I might agree with you on one part of this debate no you mat not kill them all but you can do a lot of damage and thin them out to a point of non existence about like the deer in the areas I have hunted


----------



## ekr

Greg45 said:


> Eker I under stand what you are saying may be I should have made my invites moor clear to some spot and stalk I have no problem running dogs and taking a pig or two I just dont agree with killing more than you can eat or give away people are complaining we have to many yotes in the woods well stop feeding them by killing some thing and leaving it for them to eat



I guess i eat more pork .  I don't go every other day or weekend so when I do get to go...I kill and harvest whatever hogs the good lord gives me and I'm thankful for it.  I donate meat or have bbq cook outs for friends and families.  If someone wants to eat the smelly grits, dark meatballs or drink sour mtn dew...I'll bring that to 'em too.  tastes great btw...you should try it...tastes just like pork.   Be safe and have fun hunting...that's whats important.  See you around Greg.


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## Killer Kyle

If you see 'em in the new spot this morning, slay 'em Greg!


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## Greg45

see ya Eker and I am ging to have fun today even if I dont see  pig but I am sure its a good chance to put one on the ground in my honey hle


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## Greg45

well kyle I am sure I will slay one I onle have my one shot wonder its a lo smoke pole


----------



## NCHillbilly

kc65 said:


> feral pig facts...one of the most intelligent species found in the u.s. 85% of diet is vegetation , including crops where available, eat 5% of body weight daily, once they reach 10 to 15 lbs predation is not an issue, they compete with native wildlife for hard mast crops, rooting causes leaf litter decomposition causing the loss of vital nutrients which impacts seedling survival rate of trees, especially long leaf pines, whitetail deer will immediately vacate an area where feral hogs show up, half hearted attempts to control them just makes them less susceptible to future control efforts... I say kill em when u c them....



Bull malarky. The statement I highlighted in blue is far from fact. I agree with the rest of your post, but deer and hogs definitely can and do coexist. On a recent three-day hog hunt in mid-south Georgia, I was in an area that is absolutely infested with hogs. You can't walk fifty yards without seeing a hog track. There are wallows all over the place, and the woods are a network of hog trails, filled with hog beds and rubs. I probably saw forty pigs that weekend, and my group killed eleven hogs between us. This wasn't night hunting with thermal stuff either, this was just spot-and-stalk or stand hunting around food plots. I have never in my life saw a piece of land with more hogs on it. The whole durn woods _smelled_ like hogs.

I also saw 31 deer in those three days, more than I've seen in total all hunting season hunting in areas where there are no hogs at all. Deer do not leave when hogs show up.


----------



## kc65

show me a trailcam pic of deer and hogs shareing a meal..never said that deer and hogs dont share the same habitat, but whenever hogs show up for an extended period and without efforts to control their population the deer will leave that area for "greener pastures"...


----------



## PURVIS

NCHillbilly said:


> Bull malarky. The statement I highlighted in blue is far from fact. I agree with the rest of your post, but deer and hogs definitely can and do coexist. On a recent three-day hog hunt in mid-south Georgia, I was in an area that is absolutely infested with hogs. You can't walk fifty yards without seeing a hog track. There are wallows all over the place, and the woods are a network of hog trails, filled with hog beds and rubs. I probably saw forty pigs that weekend, and my group killed eleven hogs between us. This wasn't night hunting with thermal stuff either, this was just spot-and-stalk or stand hunting around food plots. I have never in my life saw a piece of land with more hogs on it. The whole durn woods _smelled_ like hogs.
> 
> I also saw 31 deer in those three days, more than I've seen in total all hunting season hunting in areas where there are no hogs at all. Deer do not leave when hogs show up.



Its sounds great to have a place like this to hunt i'm in mid south ga. and most of these places slack off there feeding programs in the summer mths and this great supply of wildlife are left to fend for there self's u did not say how many of the 31 deer u guys killed i'm guessing its not anywhere near 11 sounds like they manage the hogs pretty well if most guest have the luck u all did.i'm not saying this place does not feed year round but most don't.this great number of deer and hogs are left for the farmer to feed i know i have seen up to 50 deer a night with nv.i've also been called to a farm for hog damage and after taking a closer look it was deer damage.all i saying is if your going to bash the the hogs don't for get the deer they feed in the Fields as well.kc65 u and kyle are really showing how little time u have spent in in the woods,kc65 ask the trail cam guys for some proof i have seen 100s on the site.


----------



## Greg45

Well at the honey hole no hogs so far buy did have a couple deer checking me out lol


----------



## NCHillbilly

PURVIS said:


> Its sounds great to have a place like this to hunt i'm in mid south ga. and most of these places slack off there feeding programs in the summer mths and this great supply of wildlife are left to fend for there self's u did not say how many of the 31 deer u guys killed i'm guessing its not anywhere near 11 sounds like they manage the hogs pretty well if most guest have the luck u all did.i'm not saying this place does not feed year round but most don't.this great number of deer and hogs are left for the farmer to feed i know i have seen up to 50 deer a night with nv.i've also been called to a farm for hog damage and after taking a closer look it was deer damage.all i saying is if your going to bash the the hogs don't for get the deer they feed in the Fields as well.kc65 u and kyle are really showing how little time u have spent in in the woods,kc65 ask the trail cam guys for some proof i have seen 100s on the site.



We killed none of the deer, we were hog hunting only on a property that's (well) managed for deer hunting by the owner. The hogs do a lot of destruction on his place to his food plots and stuff, but they sure don't run the deer off. As for managing the hogs, he tries to shoot and shoot and shoot them, about a hundred a year and they're still there by the scads and probably always will be.


----------



## Kawaliga

This whole conversation validates the fact that people just like to argue.


----------



## Greg45

Well Kawaliga I dont see this as a argument I just see different people posting  their opinion on my post if I am wrong kyle will correct  me lol right kyle  this is America where every bodys opinion can be made


----------



## Greg45

And just a note no hogs in site lol guess they just went deeper than I was able to had sign of hogs and had two deer check me out lol scared the gravy out of me had to end the hunt when I blew my knee out going down to the bottom where the pigs was just a hanging out having a pig  lol


----------



## Killer Kyle

Kawaliga said:


> This whole conversation validates the fact that people just like to argue.



Often times it takes people presenting different points of view for us to learn.  In stead of bashing the posters, please, contribute to the discussion.


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## Greg45

couldnt have said it better Kyle


----------



## Boar Hog

This is really a stupid thing to argue about! Letting feral pigs walk is akin to asian carp catch and release.


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## Greg45

Wonder who is arguing


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## Killer Kyle

Greg and I are BFF's.  We have matching heart friendship bracelets.


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## Greg45

LOL ok Kyle dont get them talking


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## PURVIS

i wish hal at hogswat would chime in on his numbers i'm sure there down every year and he goes further and further away to find hogs.trouble is he knows who all reads this stuff and has a business to run and stays clear of this kind of post.anything BIGREDONE?


----------



## PURVIS

NEWS FLASH u deer guys need to visit the deer hunting tread and read crop damage permits and read bout what the farms feel bout your game of choice they seem to want them wiped out as much as u want the hogs gone.we have 3 farmers with enough deer damage to get permits next year at the first sign of damage and the nv we all ready have look out,maybe some of the fl clubs next door will trade a few trespassing permits if i promise to pass on a few.all we want to do is run the hogs back on them oh i forgot theres nothing out for them to eat.


----------



## bigreddwon

Well.. We don't kill every hog on every property were on, we_ try_ but its impossible most times. The times we are able to do this is in cases where hunters dropped off hogs and they didn't move up creeks naturally. Its usually a single sounder, enough to do very noticeable damage. They tend to be mostly domestic in appearance.

We put hands on 648 hogs in 2012. We didn't make even a tiny dent in the overall population in GA.

 The property's that have severe problems have those problems because they are on thoroughfares where hogs travel and decide to stop and eat. Nobody messes with them and they take up 'residence'. Multiply this by 10, 20, 40 separate sounders and its a _severe_ problem. Each sounder is on its own time schedule and to kill them you have to keep constant and long term pressure. With each sounder you encounter and successfully deal with, you lessen the overall damage the farmer takes. In my experience, if we are able to get into them without being seen, heard or smelled we effectively teach them (any survivors) that _that field_ is a very bad place. A bad place to go, a bad place to be and no place they want to come back to. The survivors of that sounder, _if any_, will not necessarily leave that particular property, depending on how big it is, but they will leave that particular field. Rinse and repeat this until you 'teach' every sounder this 'lesson' and you will have given the landowner/farmer TRUE relief from his hog problem, _for a short while._ New sounders _WILL_ travel from the deep swamps, WMA's up those creeks and fill in where the sounders you dealt with left. 

Some property's had years and years of this happening before we get called in. It can take several months of 2-5 nights a week of hard core hunting, leaving NOTHING walking away if you can help it before you can get it under control. Then you have to regularly patrol it to keep the transient hogs from becoming resident hogs. Its a never ending battle on some properties. Others you can actually go 3-6 months before more hogs move in. Its a case by case. 

WMA's are _hog factories_. They don't get enough _effective pressure_ to dent the numbers they hold and the hogs spill out onto neighboring property's in a pretty thick flow. 

My personal philosophy and my company's business practice is a scorched earth approach. Kill EVERY hog we see, or try to. Leave nothing breathing. Don't wait to kill tomorrow what you can kill today. Killing them _today_ takes priority over waiting until I have customers next week. Killing them takes priority over getting them butchered and on a table. When I can sit on a property for a few days and see nothing where I used to see 2-19 separate sounders of 3-40 pigs, that's good. I don't see it as a property I worked myself _out of_, I see it as the best darn referral I can get, one that usually gets me several other property's.. _Tore up property's.._ We put those property's into a less rigorous patrol schedule and prioritize the new property's to the top of the list. Its a never ending cycle. 

Hogs eat more fawns and quail/turkey eggs than native predators by far. They are just plain better at finding them, and they eat them without hesitation. They ruin water holes and destroy food sources for native species. 

The only good things about hogs is how much darn fun they are to hunt and how _good _they taste.. 

Hunters are the main reason we have such a problem with them. They move them into areas they wouldn't have made it to and they attempt to 'manage' them as opposed to wipe them out. Because of this, we WILL NOT be able to shoot or trap or dog them into extinction in Georgia. Impossible. They have too strong a hold in areas we just cant get into and kill enough of them to make a difference. Hog proof fencing combined with poison is the only way we could get to that point. 

Hog proof fencing to me, is a barb wire fence with hog panels trenched in 6 inches with 3 strands of hot wire. Expensive and needs constant maintenance to continue to be be effective. 10-12k per liner mile. Suitable poison would be sodium nitrite. It would work wonders and make controlling them easy, its a common sense approach to dealing with it, that's why those in government will never allow it, it makes too much sense. It targets hogs specifically and suffocates them, so any animal that feeds on the carcass isn't eating a poison that would effect them.

I give it 10 years before I'm fenced out of business. I plan on selling a few hundred thousand miles of it myself.. Adapt and overcome!


----------



## Killer Kyle

Great post Bigreddwon.  Freaking outstanding.  I'm saving this one!  Thanks for the personal input!


----------



## kc65

bigreddwon said:


> Well.. We don't kill every hog on every property were on, we_ try_ but its impossible most times. The times we are able to do this is in cases where hunters dropped off hogs and they didn't move up creeks naturally. Its usually a single sounder, enough to do very noticeable damage. They tend to be mostly domestic in appearance.
> 
> We put hands on 648 hogs in 2012. We didn't make even a tiny dent in the overall population in GA.
> 
> The property's that have severe problems have those problems because they are on thoroughfares where hogs travel and decide to stop and eat. Nobody messes with them and they take up 'residence'. Multiply this by 10, 20, 40 separate sounders and its a _severe_ problem. Each sounder is on its own time schedule and to kill them you have to keep constant and long term pressure. With each sounder you encounter and successfully deal with, you lessen the overall damage the farmer takes. In my experience, if we are able to get into them without being seen, heard or smelled we effectively teach them (any survivors) that _that field_ is a very bad place. A bad place to go, a bad place to be and no place they want to come back to. The survivors of that sounder, _if any_, will not necessarily leave that particular property, depending on how big it is, but they will leave that particular field. Rinse and repeat this until you 'teach' every sounder this 'lesson' and you will have given the landowner/farmer TRUE relief from his hog problem, _for a short while._ New sounders _WILL_ travel from the deep swamps, WMA's up those creeks and fill in where the sounders you dealt with left.
> 
> Some property's had years and years of this happening before we get called in. It can take several months of 2-5 nights a week of hard core hunting, leaving NOTHING walking away if you can help it before you can get it under control. Then you have to regularly patrol it to keep the transient hogs from becoming resident hogs. Its a never ending battle on some properties. Others you can actually go 3-6 months before more hogs move in. Its a case by case.
> 
> WMA's are _hog factories_. They don't get enough _effective pressure_ to dent the numbers they hold and the hogs spill out onto neighboring property's in a pretty thick flow.
> 
> My personal philosophy and my company's business practice is a scorched earth approach. Kill EVERY hog we see, or try to. Leave nothing breathing. Don't wait to kill tomorrow what you can kill today. Killing them _today_ takes priority over waiting until I have customers next week. Killing them takes priority over getting them butchered and on a table. When I can sit on a property for a few days and see nothing where I used to see 2-19 separate sounders of 3-40 pigs, that's good. I don't see it as a property I worked myself _out of_, I see it as the best darn referral I can get, one that usually gets me several other property's.. _Tore up property's.._ We put those property's into a less rigorous patrol schedule and prioritize the new property's to the top of the list. Its a never ending cycle.
> 
> Hogs eat more fawns and quail/turkey eggs than native predators by far. They are just plain better at finding them, and they eat them without hesitation. They ruin water holes and destroy food sources for native species.
> 
> The only good things about hogs is how much darn fun they are to hunt and how _good _they taste..
> 
> Hunters are the main reason we have such a problem with them. They move them into areas they wouldn't have made it to and they attempt to 'manage' them as opposed to wipe them out. Because of this, we WILL NOT be able to shoot or trap or dog them into extinction in Georgia. Impossible. They have too strong a hold in areas we just cant get into and kill enough of them to make a difference. Hog proof fencing combined with poison is the only way we could get to that point.
> 
> Hog proof fencing to me, is a barb wire fence with hog panels trenched in 6 inches with 3 strands of hot wire. Expensive and needs constant maintenance to continue to be be effective. 10-12k per liner mile. Suitable poison would be sodium nitrite. It would work wonders and make controlling them easy, its a common sense approach to dealing with it, that's why those in government will never allow it, it makes too much sense. It targets hogs specifically and suffocates them, so any animal that feeds on the carcass isn't eating a poison that would effect them.
> 
> I give it 10 years before I'm fenced out of business. I plan on selling a few hundred thousand miles of it myself.. Adapt and overcome!


----------



## ekr

bigreddwon said:


> WMA's are _hog factories_. They don't get enough _effective pressure_ to dent the numbers they hold and the hogs spill out onto neighboring property's in a pretty thick flow.



I believe the wma's are not the factories.  The private properties that no one ever gets on or hunting clubs around the wma's are the factories.  The wma's is only a food source for them.  What I do understand is that our government doesn't want us to kill them all.  In california, you can hunt hogs year round with any big game weapon of your choosing (This is how it should be), but you have to purchase hog tags and they're not cheap (This is government management IMO).  In Georgia, we are blessed with the power of unlimited  (how it should be), but we are limited to the weapons of the season in, small game, big game & turkey as well as closed no hunt seasons (government management on hogs IMO).  It would be great if our state would allow us to hunt hogs with big game weapons year round on public lands.



bigreddwon said:


> The only good things about hogs is how much darn fun they are to hunt and how good they taste..



The best opinion on hogs ever.


----------



## PURVIS

bigredone looks like all i gave u was a invite to advertise.lol what i was interested in were your numbers from 2011,2010 and so on i knew u were in the business of hog eradication and this is a great reply on that point of view. if hunting was not having a impact why are our overall numbers in wilcox  way down but u are right there are places these hogs are safe.i didn't hunt some places in crisp county this year because of this drop in numbers the farms that were wiped out by hogs years ago.u and me both know the plantation there safe on.


----------



## Killer Kyle

PURVIS said:


> NEWS FLASH u deer guys need to visit the deer hunting tread and read crop damage permits and read bout what the farms feel bout your game of choice they seem to want them wiped out as much as u want the hogs gone.we have 3 farmers with enough deer damage to get permits next year at the first sign of damage and the nv we all ready have look out,maybe some of the fl clubs next door will trade a few trespassing permits if i promise to pass on a few.all we want to do is run the hogs back on them oh i forgot theres nothing out for them to eat.



Well Purvis, there's only one way to appropriately respond to this.  Since you guys are having a deer crisis, all you have to do is invite Greg45 and myself down there.  I am a public land-only hunter, and didn't even kill a deer this season.  I have a nearly empty freezer, and so if you send the invite next season, Greg and I will tag team your deer, and I solemnly swear to you that we will kill each and every deer we see until our limits are full. 
Greg45, you in?!?!


----------



## ekr

Killer Kyle said:


> Well Purvis, there's only one way to appropriately respond to this.  Since you guys are having a deer crisis, all you have to do is invite Greg45 and myself down there.  I am a public land-only hunter, and didn't even kill a deer this season.  I have a nearly empty freezer, and so if you send the invite next season, Greg and I will tag team your deer, and I solemnly swear to you that we will kill each and every deer we see until our limits are full.
> Greg45, you in?!?!



Kyle, what about me?  I am also a public land only hunter and didn't kill a single deer this past season or the year before.  I'm getting tired of eating pork.  Lets make it a 3 man team.


----------



## PURVIS

Killer Kyle said:


> Well Purvis, there's only one way to appropriately respond to this.  Since you guys are having a deer crisis, all you have to do is invite Greg45 and myself down there.  I am a public land-only hunter, and didn't even kill a deer this season.  I have a nearly empty freezer, and so if you send the invite next season, Greg and I will tag team your deer, and I solemnly swear to you that we will kill each and every deer we see until our limits are full.
> Greg45, you in?!?!



hey if it were up to me and these farmers u would be more than welcome truth is these big fl. clubs around us would have a stroke if any of these does were killed they work hard a growing them.they live on there clubs we only feed them.


----------



## Killer Kyle

ekr said:


> Kyle, what about me?  I am also a public land only hunter and didn't kill a single deer this past season or the year before.  I'm getting tired of eating pork.  Lets make it a 3 man team.



Heck, let's take like ten guys down there, and we will wipe them out.  It will be like whitetail genocide.  It will be the making of myths and legends.  It will be a one-day total local extinction event.  We could cause as much death and wreckage as the meteor that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs.  Let's make t-shirts.  Team Eradicate.  
All hands on deck.  
Sound good purvis??  

...and by the way.....Joking tone, but serious offer.


----------



## snook24

ekr said:


> Kyle, what about me?  I am also a public land only hunter and didn't kill a single deer this past season or the year before.  I'm getting tired of eating pork.  Lets make it a 3 man team.



Haha I feel ya on the pork. I've got plenty of deer cause I can use it with everything but the pork I can only eat so much. Im out of pork now so its about time to get a little but I'd love to find chicken farmers who wanna trade pork for chicken lol then life would be good ( off subject but found that funny)


----------



## Boar Hog

bigreddwon said:


> Well.. We don't kill every hog on every property were on, we_ try_ but its impossible most times. The times we are able to do this is in cases where hunters dropped off hogs and they didn't move up creeks naturally. Its usually a single sounder, enough to do very noticeable damage. They tend to be mostly domestic in appearance.
> 
> We put hands on 648 hogs in 2012. We didn't make even a tiny dent in the overall population in GA.
> 
> The property's that have severe problems have those problems because they are on thoroughfares where hogs travel and decide to stop and eat. Nobody messes with them and they take up 'residence'. Multiply this by 10, 20, 40 separate sounders and its a _severe_ problem. Each sounder is on its own time schedule and to kill them you have to keep constant and long term pressure. With each sounder you encounter and successfully deal with, you lessen the overall damage the farmer takes. In my experience, if we are able to get into them without being seen, heard or smelled we effectively teach them (any survivors) that _that field_ is a very bad place. A bad place to go, a bad place to be and no place they want to come back to. The survivors of that sounder, _if any_, will not necessarily leave that particular property, depending on how big it is, but they will leave that particular field. Rinse and repeat this until you 'teach' every sounder this 'lesson' and you will have given the landowner/farmer TRUE relief from his hog problem, _for a short while._ New sounders _WILL_ travel from the deep swamps, WMA's up those creeks and fill in where the sounders you dealt with left.
> 
> Some property's had years and years of this happening before we get called in. It can take several months of 2-5 nights a week of hard core hunting, leaving NOTHING walking away if you can help it before you can get it under control. Then you have to regularly patrol it to keep the transient hogs from becoming resident hogs. Its a never ending battle on some properties. Others you can actually go 3-6 months before more hogs move in. Its a case by case.
> 
> WMA's are _hog factories_. They don't get enough _effective pressure_ to dent the numbers they hold and the hogs spill out onto neighboring property's in a pretty thick flow.
> 
> My personal philosophy and my company's business practice is a scorched earth approach. Kill EVERY hog we see, or try to. Leave nothing breathing. Don't wait to kill tomorrow what you can kill today. Killing them _today_ takes priority over waiting until I have customers next week. Killing them takes priority over getting them butchered and on a table. When I can sit on a property for a few days and see nothing where I used to see 2-19 separate sounders of 3-40 pigs, that's good. I don't see it as a property I worked myself _out of_, I see it as the best darn referral I can get, one that usually gets me several other property's.. _Tore up property's.._ We put those property's into a less rigorous patrol schedule and prioritize the new property's to the top of the list. Its a never ending cycle.
> 
> Hogs eat more fawns and quail/turkey eggs than native predators by far. They are just plain better at finding them, and they eat them without hesitation. They ruin water holes and destroy food sources for native species.
> 
> The only good things about hogs is how much darn fun they are to hunt and how _good _they taste..
> 
> Hunters are the main reason we have such a problem with them. They move them into areas they wouldn't have made it to and they attempt to 'manage' them as opposed to wipe them out. Because of this, we WILL NOT be able to shoot or trap or dog them into extinction in Georgia. Impossible. They have too strong a hold in areas we just cant get into and kill enough of them to make a difference. Hog proof fencing combined with poison is the only way we could get to that point.
> 
> Hog proof fencing to me, is a barb wire fence with hog panels trenched in 6 inches with 3 strands of hot wire. Expensive and needs constant maintenance to continue to be be effective. 10-12k per liner mile. Suitable poison would be sodium nitrite. It would work wonders and make controlling them easy, its a common sense approach to dealing with it, that's why those in government will never allow it, it makes too much sense. It targets hogs specifically and suffocates them, so any animal that feeds on the carcass isn't eating a poison that would effect them.
> 
> I give it 10 years before I'm fenced out of business. I plan on selling a few hundred thousand miles of it myself.. Adapt and overcome!






This what I've been saying, kill every pig you see, you will never get them all. But let them walk and one day you will regret it!


----------



## bigreddwon

PURVIS said:


> bigredone looks like all i gave u was a invite to advertise.lol what i was interested in were your numbers from 2011,2010 and so on i knew u were in the business of hog eradication and this is a great reply on that point of view. if hunting was not having a impact why are our overall numbers in wilcox  way down but u are right there are places these hogs are safe.i didn't hunt some places in crisp county this year because of this drop in numbers the farms that were wiped out by hogs years ago.u and me both know the plantation there safe on.



648 hogs harvested (2012)
591 hogs harvested (2011)
463 hogs harvested (2010)

Approximately 200 in 09..


----------



## ekr

Wow...looking at those numbers, I can't tell if the hogs are multiplying faster or you're getting really good at  them year after year.  Great job bigreddwon.


----------



## Greg45

Ok kyle I will get my gun all shined up and dont feel bad I didnt get a deer ether so I am game all I need is the invite


----------



## bigreddwon

ekr said:


> Wow...looking at those numbers, I can't tell if the hogs are multiplying faster or you're getting really good at  them year after year.  Great job bigreddwon.



Thanks Ekr, Its both..

I also attribute it to dropping down from a 308 to 223's. MUCH easier for folks to be accurate with when shooting multiple hogs. Referrals kicked up a bit as well, got some _tore up_ property's.


----------



## PURVIS

bigreddwon said:


> Thanks Ekr, Its both..
> 
> I also attribute it to dropping down from a 308 to 223's. MUCH easier for folks to be accurate with when shooting multiple hogs. Referrals kicked up a bit as well, got some _tore up_ property's.



I would have never guessed that u were adding numbers each year i would have though they were on the decline i have not seen the great sounders in the fields in 4 years know. are u still being able to stay close to home and are the numbers of hunts up also?i read some of your post and you do have some happy customers judging from your photos.why do you think this is going to end soon u seem to be growing in the hardest of times.


----------



## bigreddwon

PURVIS said:


> I would have never guessed that u were adding numbers each year i would have though they were on the decline i have not seen the great sounders in the fields in 4 years know. are u still being able to stay close to home and are the numbers of hunts up also?i read some of your post and you do have some happy customers judging from your photos.why do you think this is going to end soon u seem to be growing in the hardest of times.



If I was hunting the same property's the numbers would be _drastically_ lower. I constantly look for new property's to keep busy. A really bad property can produce upwards of over 100 hogs in the first year by itself, but the following year it will be as low as 10 if we do our job. So if we don't get onto new property's we would 'shoot out' property's within time. If your shooting on the same property and killing MORE hogs as the years go by then that's _quality hog management_ as opposed to _hog control_ IMO.

I'm actually staying closer to home now than I was when I first got started, my vehicle gets gallons to the mile so I try to keep within 40 miles of home. My local farmers are getting to know me better and the referrals from them are rolling in. I don't know how much longer this aspect of the industry will be around, but it is fragile. One good hog control measure can end it overnight, like legal poison for example. I _love_ what I do, dealing with the customers and the farmers is a pleasure, I don't work for a single jerk, don't have to. As long as the pork cooperates its pretty easy to make customers happy, same for the farmer. Never would have imagined how many folks are absolutely delighted when a few pigs die! The farmers happy, customers happy and I'm grinning ear to ear.. Plus I get to buy and use kool toys and justify driving a totally impractical vehicle..


----------



## Killer Kyle

The Hambulance.  Haahahaha I freaking love that!  No need for a gurney....those hogs are dead on scene!!!


----------



## snook24

That's awesome lol


----------



## Nicodemus

The Hambulance is one sho-nuff sharp rig.


----------



## fish hawk

bigreddwon said:


> One good hog control measure can end it overnight, like legal poison for example.



Or something that can make them sterile.


----------



## bigreddwon

fish hawk said:


> Or something that can make them sterile.



Agreed. If they could get it to the pigs it would do the trick.


----------



## Greg45

the problem with poison is you wont just kill pigs


----------



## bigreddwon

Greg45 said:


> the problem with poison is you wont just kill pigs



You do with the right poison, with the right delivery system. 

http://wildpigconference.com/proceedings09/lapidge1.pdf



> The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Wildlife Services branch (which used to be called Animal Damage Control) is testing a feeder which, advocates say, only hogs can access.
> 
> (Wildlife Services has a lot of experience dealing with feral hogs. The agency reported killing 33,803 pigs during 2009.)
> 
> The poison being promoted for use against feral hogs has been employed for a few years in Australia, which also has a severe feral hog problem.
> 
> The active ingredient in the poison baits is sodium nitrate. In large enough doses, sodium nitrate is a quick-acting poison. Once ingested, it binds with blood and prevents oxygen from being carried by the blood. Basically, the victim suffers cardiovascular collapse – suffocates.
> 
> The problem is, sodium nitrate is indiscriminate; it’ll kill anything that eats a fatal dose – and, yes, that includes humans.
> 
> (In what can only be described as irony, small amounts of sodium nitrate are used as a food preservative, particularly in cured meats. It is commonly used in preserving … bacon!)
> 
> Sodium nitrate doesn’t bio-accumulate in its victims, so poisoned pigs eaten by predators or scavengers – so-called “secondary consumption” – wouldn’t be a problem.
> 
> A big hurtle facing approval of using poison to control feral hogs is proving the feeder can be accessed only by hogs. The door/gate in the feeder being tested appears heavy enough and convoluted enough to open that deer and raccoons and other animals can’t easily open it.


http://blog.chron.com/shannontompkins/2011/02/poisoning-pigs-the-final-solution/

They don't have all the lose ends worked out. If they did, pigs would be gone in a few months. Its coming tho.


----------



## Greg45

well it wont happen the feeders will get vandalized by nature lovers and or a big protest cruelty  to animals they can try and if it does come it will be long after we all meet our maker


----------



## nockemstiff

From the end of that article... 





> ... bears can enter the trap ... This is an issue in Texas, where black bears, once exterminated from the state, are reestablishing populations, particularly in South Texas, the Trans-Pecos and northeast Texas. Bears are a protected species in Texas.



Not sure what my point is exactly since I think there ought to be a better way than resorting to poisons. but... Bears are not nuisances and competitive with deer, etc???

Wonder what the reasoning is for Texas, Fla, and GA to basically protect and even grow the herd of black bear.  Just seems like bears are even more intrusive to neighborhoods as their numbers grow.

And if / when poisoning for pigs is allowed, how much longer before deer themselves become a target in areas where they are heavily populated or "destroying crops"??


----------



## NCHillbilly

nockemstiff said:


> From the end of that article...
> 
> Not sure what my point is exactly since I think there ought to be a better way than resorting to poisons. but... Bears are not nuisances and competitive with deer, etc???
> 
> Wonder what the reasoning is for Texas, Fla, and GA to basically protect and even grow the herd of black bear.  Just seems like bears are even more intrusive to neighborhoods as their numbers grow.
> 
> And if / when poisoning for pigs is allowed, how much longer before deer themselves become a target in areas where they are heavily populated or "destroying crops"??



Because bears are native animals that belong here and were here for tens of thousands of years until we killed them off in some areas. Pigs were brought here from overseas.


----------



## Killer Kyle

nockemstiff said:


> And if / when poisoning for pigs is allowed, how much longer before deer themselves become a target in areas where they are heavily populated or "destroying crops"??



There ARE measures taken to control whitetails.  You can get Ag-related nuisance permits to shoot them year round (I think) if they are damaging agricultural crops.


----------



## PURVIS

i have seen poison used for years and they didn't care what was killed it takes very little time and these hogs learn this we use to get peanut butter to bait hogs and had to quit because it was used as the delivery system for these homemade brews hogs will make a trail around it now last spring some seed producers started treating the seed with something new and the hogs would root a few inchs of a row and roll the seed around and leave them i have seen on here about cotton feilds being rooted up what there after was the peanuts from the year before in most cases hogs don't eat cotton seed.just how long u think it will take the web to be full of photos of 20 dead hogs with the buzzards picking there bones to bring a stop to this.


----------



## nockemstiff

*and?*

But I don't recall the last time I heard someone say, man that bear ham I smoked the other day sure was good! 

Give me some credit though 
I know they were native.

But what else is the value? Has there absence created a gap in the ecosystem? Are forests crumbling because they are not there? I mean there must be some reasons. And that ought to be balanced with the nuisance / competitiveness that will come back with re-establishing them. I hope we all really are prepared / educated to live with that.



NCHillbilly said:


> Because bears are native animals that belong here and were here for tens of thousands of years until we killed them off in some areas. Pigs were brought here from overseas.


----------



## nockemstiff

*I cannot*

I surely cannot, and my guess is most of us cannot. Maybe there is more work could be done between DNR, farmers, hunters to help. That's one thing that was confusing to me about all the hog killing - I mean if the farmers were willing to police their own deer herds why it seems they have not been willing to fool with the hogs? Is it that the hog problem has just become so widespread and that farms with extreme deer problems are just far and few between?

So, are we thinking that hog poisoning will be relegated to the same exclusivity?  Or are we thinking that the GA DNR will basically step in and eradicate / control them statewide?



Killer Kyle said:


> There ARE measures taken to control whitetails.  You can get Ag-related nuisance permits to shoot them year round (I think) if they are damaging agricultural crops.


----------



## NCHillbilly

nockemstiff said:


> But I don't recall the last time I heard someone say, man that bear ham I smoked the other day sure was good!
> 
> Give me some credit though
> I know they were native.
> 
> But what else is the value? Has there absence created a gap in the ecosystem? Are forests crumbling because they are not there? I mean there must be some reasons. And that ought to be balanced with the nuisance / competitiveness that will come back with re-establishing them. I hope we all really are prepared / educated to live with that.



You apparently have never eaten bear meat. It's just as good as, or better than pork, and I like me some pork. Bear is fine eatin'.

And bears have their place, if nothing else, they just belong here and the woods are more interesting for having them around. Been livin' around them all my life. They can cause a few problems, but nothing major that I know of. 



PURVIS said:


> i have seen poison used for years and they didn't care what was killed it takes very little time and these hogs learn this we use to get peanut butter to bait hogs and had to quit because it was used as the delivery system for these homemade brews hogs will make a trail around it now last spring some seed producers started treating the seed with something new and the hogs would root a few inchs of a row and roll the seed around and leave them i have seen on here about cotton feilds being rooted up what there after was the peanuts from the year before in most cases hogs don't eat cotton seed.just how long u think it will take the web to be full of photos of 20 dead hogs with the buzzards picking there bones to bring a stop to this.



I absolutely oppose any use of poison for anything, except maybe rats inside your house, and I don't even care much for that. I don't see how a poison could kill hogs and not affect anything else?


----------



## Killer Kyle

nockemstiff said:


> But I don't recall the last time I heard someone say, man that bear ham I smoked the other day sure was good!



Then you need to go read the bear hunting forum.  I know many bear hunters who love bear meat, and several who prefer it over all other game.  And how is bear meat best served?  Smoked, in fact. 




nockemstiff said:


> But what else is the value? Has there absence created a gap in the ecosystem? Are forests crumbling because they are not there? I mean there must be some reasons. And that ought to be balanced with the nuisance / competitiveness that will come back with re-establishing them. I hope we all really are prepared / educated to live with that.



"But what else is the value?"  
...Well, to answer your question, we can refer to the writings of Aldo Leopold, who is considered by most to be the father of modern conservation.  In his work "A Sand County Almanac", there is an excerpt that will effictively answer your question:

_"The outstanding scientific discovery of the twentieth century is not television, or radio, but rather the complexity of the land organism. Only those who know the most about it can appreciate how little we know about it. *The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts?* To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering."_


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## Mako22

Killer Kyle said:


> We are an invasive species, and look at all the good we have done for the environment!



No Sir we are not an invasive species, we are in fact a dominate creation created by God and given rule over this earth. We adapt, we make tools, we kill, we think and we control our environment.


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## Greg45

Key Kyle since they have such a major hog problem down south lets load up and go pop a few


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