# Why is it that Rage broadheads don't get good penetration?



## Arrow3 (Aug 15, 2014)

So many tv guys use them and you hardly ever see one pass through. ...I have killed 2 deer with them and neither passed through.....They are still pretty devastating even when they don't but I just wonder why they lose so much energy when they hit???


----------



## GADawg08 (Aug 15, 2014)

I've personally shot 3 deer with them (standard 100gr 2-blade)...all 3 were pass throughs. Biggest was about 175 lb doe. Im not sure if its because the deer on tv are normally a lot bigger bodied than ours here in GA, but I don't know of anyone that shoots them that has penetration problems


----------



## hortonhunter22 (Aug 15, 2014)

could it be that everyone is going down on bow poundage, i can remember when these hulk guys are out shooting 80lb draw...now most are shooting 50-60...add to that that it isnt a thru cut on contact, could be part of the equation


----------



## The Fever (Aug 15, 2014)

I ran one nearly the length of a doe and got an entire pass through. I also think a lot of the shots you see are at further distances and perhaps too light an arrow.


----------



## bowhunterdavid (Aug 15, 2014)

I shot a 55 pound pse omen pro last year and I shot the big rage extreme,  killed 2 bucks and 6 does all were pass throughs but to, and they crashed within 50 yards,and my arrow weight was about 380. also killed 3 hogs to, I know people who kill elk with them every year with no problem,Like years ago,, you either liked Dale Earnhardt are hated him, that's the way its with rage.. I like both Just my 2 cents worth


----------



## alligood729 (Aug 15, 2014)

I've killed maybe 10 with a 3 blade rage, never had a problem with pass thru shots...maybe derik or Byron will see this thread, I know they have killed m a n y animals with rage heads... Id like to know what their experience is...


----------



## Jim Thompson (Aug 15, 2014)

same here David.  I shot a bunch over the years with rage and never remember it being an issue.  I know I buried a couple in shoulders that didnt pass, but anything behind the shoulder was always a pass.


----------



## BigCats (Aug 15, 2014)

Ke, bad shot . When a head is that wide of cut you need the ke behind it that's my opinion.  I shoot a bipolar a 70lb draw 29.5 dl and 466 grain arrow i don't usually have much of a pass thru problem but it can happen.


----------



## bamaboy (Aug 15, 2014)

I have killed all my deer with Rage 2 blade and all have been pass throughs, longest shot was a doe at 42 yrds, she ran 70 and gave it up. All I use is Rage 2 blades, love them, I am scared to switch due to they work for me. BTW I always shoot the lungs,not a shoulder or heart shot man here, always go for the lungs.


----------



## Curtis-UGA (Aug 15, 2014)

I've shot plenty with them. As long as I avoided the shoulder bade no problem. Biggest was 260 lbs at 20 yds and 235 lbs at 33 yds.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Aug 15, 2014)

70 animals since they came out, all two blade and I would say 95% were pass through shots. I have never had any of the so called "issues" associated with these heads. )Animals = deer, hogs, coyotes, foxes) During this time I have also killed deer with Aftershocks, Grim Reapers, Motecs, Swackers, and a few others. Penetration has more to do with arrow tune than what broad head you use. 

Having said that I have seen an unbelievable trend in outdoor television from poor penetrations to horrible shots on deer. The outdoor television industry is in a poor state of affairs right now and it will put itself out of business as it's customers stop consuming it. I will go on a limb here and say that viewership for all three "outdoor" networks is down. These networks solution is more of the same? Poor business model. The way to change it is to stop consuming it.


----------



## Skyjacker (Aug 16, 2014)

This guy on AT who I think has a cattle farm has done real meat broadhead tests where he has shot various broad heads into a side of a cow flank with the hyde and all.  He tests broad heads for penetration and averages the results.  Rage has performed poorly in all of his tests.  

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2282053&highlight=Real+meat+test


----------



## Brian from GA (Aug 16, 2014)

I have said for a few years that I would love to have access to a lot of the TV hunters for their equipment setup to take a survey. I would guarantee a lot of those guys are shooting light weight arrows at low poundage which in my opinion is a bad combo for penetration. I personally add 20 grain GT weights to the back of my insert before installing the insert in the arrow which makes my arrow heavier and gives me more front of center. I have passed through tons of deer and hogs with Rage and several other expandables and my arrow weighs around 425-450 grains. 

Plus there is the one component that a lot of TV shooters have.... They can't shoot. I see a ton of shoulder shots on TV. 

The guys I have discussed this with and know they are shooting heavy arrows do usually get pass throughs.


----------



## alligood729 (Aug 16, 2014)

Brian from GA said:


> I have said for a few years that I would love to have access to a lot of the TV hunters for their equipment setup to take a survey. I would guarantee a lot of those guys are shooting light weight arrows at low poundage which in my opinion is a bad combo for penetration. I personally add 20 grain GT weights to the back of my insert before installing the insert in the arrow which makes my arrow heavier and gives me more front of center. I have passed through tons of deer and hogs with Rage and several other expandables and my arrow weighs around 425-450 grains.
> 
> Plus there is the one component that a lot of TV shooters have.... They can't shoot. I see a ton of shoulder shots on TV.
> 
> The guys I have discussed this with and know they are shooting heavy arrows do usually get pass throughs.



They are on TV!! You can't say "they can't shoot"!!!!!


----------



## JBird227 (Aug 16, 2014)

I have used them for years and killed many deer, I haven't had one that hasn't gone clean through. Haven't had one run far either. I shoot the two blade, had such good results I havent wanted to try anything else. Until I have a problem its what ill shoot.


----------



## deast1988 (Aug 16, 2014)

The only shows comes to mind as far as no passthroughs, I've see Drury guys and Dave Watson. Setups I've seen Watson tell the camera he pulls 50lbs due to multiple shoulder problems. And Drury  guys both older and think they've dropped weight considerably again this is only mentioned to the camera. I know of a pretty good PSE pusher who lives pretty close to an ACE store who's said on "here" he could pull less and still get 300fps out of his hunting rig. So a 50ish pound bow a lighter arrow faster lighter equals a faster slow down over distance keeps arrows inside animals. Watch the rage commericals on their site. Tom Miranda, some of the ladies. Lots of non passthrus. But crazy blood trails. I've heard Watson talking Broadheads before and showed a Rage Low KE to the camera and the monster he shot kept the arrow but didn't know a lil cut smoked him.


----------



## tbrown913 (Aug 17, 2014)

64 pound draw, 300 fps, gave me 90 in whatever ke is measured in. 2 blade rage hhas only stopped in a deer once, and that was due to the awesome 2nd entry. Initial entry behind the shoulder, exit through the meat of the other shoulder, and since she was looking away and down eating, a second entry at the base of the skull behind the ear. She went 10 feet! Had a pass through at 20 yards from back left leg and out front right brisket.  All broadside shots have been easy pass throughs.  I guess you need more umph to your arrow!


----------



## Jed Johnson (Aug 17, 2014)

Im not a rage shooter but have never heard of pass thru issues with them anymore than other broadheads. The situation, shot placement and bow setup always vary.


----------



## deerkiller (Aug 17, 2014)

People love to blame poor shot placement on the broadhead. Best broadhead made!!!


----------



## Josh B (Aug 17, 2014)

I had a rage go through and lost arrow. Couldn't figure out where it went but also accidentally hit one in hind corter and it still only went 20 yards. I love rage.


----------



## alligood729 (Aug 17, 2014)

deast1988 said:


> The only shows comes to mind as far as no passthroughs, I've see Drury guys and Dave Watson. Setups I've seen Watson tell the camera he pulls 50lbs due to multiple shoulder problems. And Drury  guys both older and think they've dropped weight considerably again this is only mentioned to the camera. I know of a pretty good PSE pusher who lives pretty close to an ACE store who's said on "here" he could pull less and still get 300fps out of his hunting rig. So a 50ish pound bow a lighter arrow faster lighter equals a faster slow down over distance keeps arrows inside animals. Watch the rage commericals on their site. Tom Miranda, some of the ladies. Lots of non passthrus. But crazy blood trails. I've heard Watson talking Broadheads before and showed a Rage Low KE to the camera and the monster he shot kept the arrow but didn't know a lil cut smoked him.


So, what are you trying to say? My setups won't do what I said they would? Just curious.....


----------



## Arrow3 (Aug 17, 2014)

Sounds like most of you guys have had great success with them.


----------



## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> So, what are you trying to say? My setups won't do what I said they would? Just curious.....



Not at all, I know PSE are speedsters. I just put my thoughts as to why arrows aren't passing through. Do you think them fellas are pulling 70lbs? I bet there bows are still fine tuned race horses and they shoot biggins too!


----------



## alligood729 (Aug 17, 2014)

deast1988 said:


> Not at all, I know PSE are speedsters. I just put my thoughts as to why arrows aren't passing through. Do you think them fellas are pulling 70lbs? I bet there bows are still fine tuned race horses and they shoot biggins too!



Yeah, Id bet they are shooting less than 60. Still not sure why they have such trouble, unless it's the reason Brian stated....they just can't shoot! They do shoot some big bodied deer tho....Lol with a rage, placement is everything.  And...the only 2 bows I've hunted with in the last 7 seasons that didn't hit at least 300 were an omen set at 50lbs and shooting a 340gr arrow at 285, and my DNA last year, 58lbs, same arrow, 295


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Aug 17, 2014)

1st, if I shot a pse I wouldn't shoot 70 pounds either. Have ever drawn one!?

2nd, I was told by Mark Drury that he hunts with 50 - 55 pounds because he wants to be able to get the bow back in any situation while hunting whitetails.

I shoot 70 pounds and generally build my arrows with the goal to be in 400 - 450 grains. I also add weight up front to get a higher FOC. In short I build arrows for penetration. I make sure my equipment and arrow are tuned properly.

I take the 1st shot at the vitals that a deer I intend to kill gives me. This includes if a deer is quartering to me. I have shot through a number of shoulder blades. I would be a little more selective if I were shooting the heavier animals found in the mid-west and the western ranges.

I see really bad arrow flight on a lot of the TV hunters especially when they use lighted nocks. They make terrible shots and it seems to be worse now than ever. 

I am currently shooting a 425 grain arrow @ 293 FPS. If it matters to you that is 81 pounds of kinetic energy. KE means a lot until the moment the tip of the arrow touches hide, then it means nothing. Mass and momentum are the important factors at that point. A 340 grain arrow might leave the bow at 300 fps but it slows down very quickly.

If you run a series of arrows through any one bow, you will see that as the arrows get heavier, the speeds get slower. A quick KE calculation will show that the KE doesn't change hardly at all. But the heavier arrow will penetrate better than the lighter one, all things being equal. Properly tuned and flying straight.

Sorry for the run on


----------



## alligood729 (Aug 18, 2014)

Byron, I bought some Black Eagle arrows last week, went to a 400 spine arrow from a 480 spine blood line, trying to gain a little weight. With the arrow cut the same length, same head, same fletching, and the BE arrows have a crest, yet both arrows weigh the exact same, 340 grains. Other than an insert, the only way I can get a heavier arrow would be cut it a little longer or change spine in the BE arrows. I agree with you about the momentum thing, but I've shot basically the same weight arrow for the last 8 years, haven't had any penetration issues at all from really up close and personal, out to the longest shot I attempted last year at 35 yards. That's with Rage heads, Ramcats, and last year Bipolars....my momentum must be enough...


----------



## Kris87 (Aug 18, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> Byron, I bought some Black Eagle arrows last week, went to a 400 spine arrow from a 480 spine blood line, trying to gain a little weight. With the arrow cut the same length, same head, same fletching, and the BE arrows have a crest, yet both arrows weigh the exact same, 340 grains. Other than an insert, the only way I can get a heavier arrow would be cut it a little longer or change spine in the BE arrows. I agree with you about the momentum thing, but I've shot basically the same weight arrow for the last 8 years, haven't had any penetration issues at all from really up close and personal, out to the longest shot I attempted last year at 35 yards. That's with Rage heads, Ramcats, and last year Bipolars....my momentum must be enough...



It ain't too hard when you hit em in the guts.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Aug 18, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> Byron, I bought some Black Eagle arrows last week, went to a 400 spine arrow from a 480 spine blood line, trying to gain a little weight. With the arrow cut the same length, same head, same fletching, and the BE arrows have a crest, yet both arrows weigh the exact same, 340 grains. Other than an insert, the only way I can get a heavier arrow would be cut it a little longer or change spine in the BE arrows. I agree with you about the momentum thing, but I've shot basically the same weight arrow for the last 8 years, haven't had any penetration issues at all from really up close and personal, out to the longest shot I attempted last year at 35 yards. That's with Rage heads, Ramcats, and last year Bipolars....my momentum must be enough...



BE makes a 42 grain brass insert for the carnivore/zombie slayer shafts. Might give you a little weight. 

I think confidence has as much to do with success as anything. Believing your tackle is lethal means a lot.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Aug 18, 2014)

Ever notice that Ralph and Vickie seem to get pass through most of the time? Ralph owned an archery shop for years and I bet they have their equipment tuned properly 100% of the time. Just an observation.


----------



## Scoutman (Aug 18, 2014)

I have shot deer,elk,antelope, hogs and bear with rages and fixed heads
. They all were dead just the same.I have lost deer with both also and it was not the head's fault just mine for a poor decision. We see it on here all the time, " I heart shot or double lunged one and trailed him half a mile and lost him". Chances are your shot was not good. You can kill one shooting it in the shoulder but eventually no matter head or poundage it won't penetrate that for some reason. We are gonna make bad shots while hunting it is gonna happen, no one is perfect. I know immediately if I've screwed up and the blame rests there period. No amount of speed or fancy bow can make up for  human error. Only people who never lose one are gun hunters, that's a given.


----------



## BowhuntingFanatic35 (Aug 19, 2014)

Ive actually had an issue with penetration from the rage 2 blade when i used to use them. Killed a few deer with them and had some good blood trails, but ive had more success with the g5 striker and i know that it will  punch through shoulder if my shot is off by an inch/deer moves. rage definitely is a good broadhead, but it wont penetrate as well as others. different strokes for different folks maybe


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Aug 19, 2014)

Scoutman said:


> I have shot deer,elk,antelope, hogs and bear with rages and fixed heads
> . They all were dead just the same.I have lost deer with both also and it was not the head's fault just mine for a poor decision. We see it on here all the time, " I heart shot or double lunged one and trailed him half a mile and lost him". Chances are your shot was not good. You can kill one shooting it in the shoulder but eventually no matter head or poundage it won't penetrate that for some reason. We are gonna make bad shots while hunting it is gonna happen, no one is perfect. I know immediately if I've screwed up and the blame rests there period. No amount of speed or fancy bow can make up for  human error. Only people who never lose one are gun hunters, that's a given.



Biggest lie told in the hunting world, on purpose or not, is the perfect shot, no animal story. I agree with everything in this post!


----------



## Bo D (Aug 19, 2014)

its simple mathematics


----------

