# Looters Digging



## squirreldoghunter (Feb 6, 2009)

Mentioned these holes in another thread a while back. I found them last year on our club on the Ocmulgee around Hawkinsville. Stopped by there today and found a few small pieces of pottery and lots of chipped flint/chert laying around on top of the dirt piles. I hate to mention it again but I talked to a LEO friend who told me that they are seeing a lot of this kind of activity and it's usually associated with meth users. The general consensus on another board seems to be that this is not the case, that "someone" is trying to make the general public associate artifact collectors with illegal drugs. I don't know, but I hate to think if someone sees my pitiful collection of points they are going to assume I'm a drug addict.  
Aside from that, the extent of the digging on this site along with the amount of flint and pottery seems to suggest that there was something there worth digging for. Wish I could have seen it. Also some of the chips were red...does this indicate heat treating or is that just the natural color?


----------



## schleylures (Feb 6, 2009)

the first big piece on the right side looks pinksh from being cooked the others look natural


----------



## florida boy (Feb 6, 2009)

A buddy of mine hunts up near hawkinsville and he picks up whole points all the time while shooting dove . It is amazing at the amount of points he brings back and he dont even care about them . He only picks them up if he stumbles on them . Been hounding him to take me .


----------



## rayjay (Feb 6, 2009)

Seems like way too much manual labor for a crackhead.


----------



## blackbear (Feb 6, 2009)

It looks to me like it was a fire pit,They claim that the indians would build a campfire just like us modern campers,you can take a piece of rebar and poke around a area where you think they made there campfires,if you hit it ,the rebar will slide down real easy,dig in that firepit and you will find all kinds of stuff where they just threw it in sorta like we do sitting around the fire and just throw a paper plate in to let it burn....I have never actually done this,but was given this info by a arrowhead collecter friend of mine that had one of the most awsome spear points i have ever seen,he had private property where he was allowed to hunt arrowheads and he brought the spear for me to see at work,it was his greatest find and was about a foot long and perfect,he said he worry while digging it out he would find it broken,he took his time and got it out and when he saw it was hole he said he had to sit down and just take it all in,he was so happy! He brought it to work packed up good in a shoe box and it was as big as the inside of the box,He found it in Greene County..close to union point & Lake oconee/Heavy Grants bbq/Rock Eagle areas?I also had a Lady friend that worked for a bigtime construction company,they were digging out to pour concrete and started finding tons of stuff,whole pottery,points,etc.. they had to stop construction and have a archologist come out and collect everything,she said it was a awsome collection of everything under the sun,like a whole villege of stuff,guess where it was....Greene county!


----------



## DYI hunting (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't know, I might get addicted to searching if I ever found any artifacts.  Sure sounds fun and rewarding.


----------



## blackbear (Feb 6, 2009)

Personally,I want dig,I respect our ancesters and will only look on top of the ground,I think i know where several old buriel spots are at but would never dream of distrubing them,I also beleive you can get some bad JUJU from that sort of stuff and its not something i would want botherd so i never tell where the places i find are located......digging in a old firepit seems ok to me... but not a grave site for sure! I met a fellow one time that was a expert and had tons of stuff but he would never dig in a grave place either,he knew a lot of stuff and shared some interesting facts with me,he had studied alot and was a sort of a professer of artifact hunting & Indian Cultures,he was a good man and i hope hes doing well.....I have been arrowhead looking ever since i met him and we had a good chat around the deer campfire with all the hunters & kids and stuff,we all got hooked after seeing some of his collection,he was a modern day mountain man and lived off the land pretty much the same way the old timers did,he was a pretty interesting fellow....Loved Turkey Hunting more than anything!He could write a book on Turkeys,,,I want post his name but he was a local hero/was a U.S.ARMY Ranger and everyone knew of him where he lived in Georgia,he was well liked by everyone and i was the richer for meeting him all those years ago...I think this years its been around 23 years ago....he had some tales for sure,I think of him everytime i see the movie... apocalypto that mel gibson made.....


----------



## blackbear (Feb 6, 2009)

What i dont understand is where i allways find a flint arrowhead,I never find any flint in the area,where did it come from?All i find in my areas are quartz or white type stone heads but never find a raw piece of flint or flint chips,but will find a flint arrow head?Is flint common in all of Georgia or only in the southern part of the state?The last arrowhead i found was a grey flint and it was perfect condition,just laying on top of the ground like the indian just had layed it there for me and walked away! clean as a whistle and laying on top of Pine straw in the middle of nowhere on a mountain ridge! How cool is that!unreal find that really made my day!


----------



## blackbear (Feb 6, 2009)

Justwondering,Did any of you brothers ever get to vist Mr.Gazaways Indian Muesum over close to ballground & free home area,between the higways that head towards cummings &coal mountain?He had the niceset colection i have ver seen and was a really wonderful nice man.I allways enjoyed stopping by and talking with him,Iam the richer for haveing met him also....He had a sword knife that was hand made out of a whale rib bone!unreal artifacts,I asked him did any come from cherokee county and he sorta nodded his head & winked........


----------



## squirreldoghunter (Feb 6, 2009)

Here's one of the red flakes I was talking about. There's literally hundred of chips scattered around but I didn't see any points.  
The holes are dug out (cell phone pic didn't turn out too good) and the dirt is piled up  around them. They go down a foot or so and then sideways for a foot or two, around tree roots and such. There's probably 20 of them in a very small area, maybe 10 x 20 yards. They are recent because I found them dug fairly fresh this past spring. Whoever did it obviously wasn't doing it because they had any great respect for those who went before or they wouldn't have left the pottery pieces thrown all around. Heck, I had to sit down and contemplate them for a while. It's just an amazing feeling to hold something like that and wonder about who made it and what their lives were like way back then.


----------



## xpertgreg (Feb 6, 2009)

I have been told that meth heads do have a fascination with rocks, and know that they will stare for hours at a pile of rocks. 

gw


----------



## cddogfan1 (Feb 7, 2009)

I thoought digging was illegal.  I was In a hunting club on time on Turkey Creek in Laurens County.  We were always having problems with people comming in a digging.


----------



## bnew17 (Feb 7, 2009)

cddogfan1 said:


> I thoought digging was illegal.  I was In a hunting club on time on Turkey Creek in Laurens County.  We were always having problems with people comming in a digging.



We have land off Hwy 19 past Hardens grocery that borders the oconee and we have people digging all the time. Never caught anybody but their are always huge holes that they have left and they rip our signs down.


----------



## hummdaddy (Feb 7, 2009)

meth heads will search for points at night with q-beams


----------



## jkkj (Feb 8, 2009)

years ago we had a place to dig and sift.found some nice rocks.we did have written PERMISSION..we did this a lot at night because it was so much cooler during the summer time.


----------



## cherokeepride741 (Feb 8, 2009)

*meth addict/artifact hunter?*

Not sure about the meth  addict theory god i hope this world has not come to that, From the pics it just looks like some very disrespectful people have been on your land, Hope you catch them in the act.  I totally agree with you black bear leave whats in the ground alone there is plenty of artifacts just laying on top of the ground, I would hate to know sombody was out trying to dig up my ancesters good luck to you hope you can find a solution to your problem.


----------



## jkkj (Feb 8, 2009)

I know some guys that still dig and sift . not one of them are on any drugs . they are just addicted to them rocks they find..


----------



## Bagpiper (Feb 17, 2009)

blackbear said:


> Justwondering,Did any of you brothers ever get to vist Mr.Gazaways Indian Muesum over close to ballground & free home area,between the higways that head towards cummings &coal mountain?He had the niceset colection i have ver seen and was a really wonderful nice man.I allways enjoyed stopping by and talking with him,Iam the richer for haveing met him also....He had a sword knife that was hand made out of a whale rib bone!unreal artifacts,I asked him did any come from cherokee county and he sorta nodded his head & winked........



Yes, I knew Mr. Gazaway personally, I don't live to far from the place you mention. Yes it's CHEROKEE county. The man also knew The author of "CRY OF THE EAGLE" a good read if you can find it. Mr. Gaz. was in the process of having a book wrote, he couldn't write, himself, at least not English, but passed away before being completed.The man could read the "trees that talk" in the Cherokee sign and was a world of valuable information. I miss him greatly.


----------



## squirreldoghunter (Feb 17, 2009)

jkkj said:


> I know some guys that still dig and sift . not one of them are on any drugs . they are just addicted to them rocks they find..



I hear you...I sure like finding 'em too. Hope that's all it was.


----------



## GONoob (Feb 18, 2009)

Removing relics vs. preserving history

Preservation or theft?


----------



## killerv (Feb 18, 2009)

I would say most of your really nice stuff and whole pottery pieces you see are dug or grave robbed. Especially any shell items. You will see a small pencil size whole in a lot of pottery from where people drilled looking for it, once they find what they are looking for by drilling, they know where to dig. I have found a very small amount of really nice stuff on top of the ground or sticking out of a bank but those are few and far between, mostly field grade stuff. I find nice bird points the harrows and bottom plows miss but most big stuff has been broken. Have on several occasions found the rest of a point after spot has been plowed again.  I personally have never dug. Knew some divers that did well looking in the rivers. I'm against people trying to pass off the fakes, one fake can ruin an entire collection in my opinion.


----------



## backwoodsjoe (Feb 18, 2009)

There are excavated artifacts at U.G.A. that are in boxes that were excavated in the '40's that will never be looked at or studied. In my personal opinion, anyone including archaeologist who dig grave sites are looters. The archaeologist use "culture study" as an excuse to keep their high paying jobs and they think it is o.k. If Joe Blow digs artifacts and puts them on display so others can enjoy them, I think it is o.k.  If Dr. Craig Dingleberry digs a site to box up the stuff and pack it away in a dark musky room just to keep his $15,000.00 a year job, that my friend is looting in my opinion !
Any one who wants to get into the "OUR ANCESTORS" thing, come walk in my family and my shoes then we can talk about that !


----------



## siberian1 (Feb 18, 2009)

Looks like a dog has been digging to me.


----------



## squirreldoghunter (Feb 18, 2009)

I understand where the archs are coming from to an extent but what gets me is what you said...they claim to be gathering all this knowledge about the past for the people but then they lock it up and nobody ever sees it! Where is all this information? Like the dig down on the forks near Lumber City where they've supposedly found the old Spanish Mission. Can't find hardly anything out about it. I guess you have to be in their little secret club or something. They admit there's not a lot they can learn from specific isolated finds, but then they want to arrest you if you pick up a point on the river or a WMA or even on a public road right of way! THAT makes me !


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Feb 18, 2009)

blackbear said:


> I also beleive you can get some bad JUJU from that sort of stuff and its not something i would want botherd



Respect is one thing, but can you give a description of what juju is?  Are you serious with this part?


----------



## choctawlb (Feb 19, 2009)

I believe what Blackbear is speaking of by Juju is a curse, or spell cast on those who disturb such sites.

Ken


----------



## robert carter (Feb 19, 2009)

I pick up stuff I stumble up on. There are a few places I look when I`m going through hunting because I find stuff a lot there But I don`t dig anywhere. Digging a grave site or mound is no different than going down to the First Baptist Church and digging.Its wrong.RC


----------



## swampstalker (Feb 19, 2009)

Most of the sites that are dug are multiple occupation sites. Meaning people dig where there were different tribes camped for many years in a certain areas. I personally have dug for artifacts for around 10 years now. I dig on private property with permission. We dig these sites to recover artifacts that would never be seen and shared with everyone if left in the ground. They are not "grave artifacts", and I have never felt that it was wrong to dig there. Personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with collecting artifacts or digging for them, as long as you are not poaching, digging  up gravesites, mounds, ect...Just my opinion on the subject.


----------



## swampstalker (Feb 19, 2009)

Also, We make every attempt to cover our holes and fill them in so we do not leave the place looking like a war zone.


----------



## backyard buck (Feb 19, 2009)

the archs sit around behind there desk waiting on government funding. only digging there going to do is in the bottom of a donut box until they get their money then maybe they dig.then the artifacts they find will be placed in a box in a dark room never to be seen by the public.heck most artifacts on display at museums are cast anyway


----------



## jkkj (Feb 19, 2009)

swampstalker said:


> Most of the sites that are dug are multiple occupation sites. Meaning people dig where there were different tribes camped for many years in a certain areas. I personally have dug for artifacts for around 10 years now. I dig on private property with permission. We dig these sites to recover artifacts that would never be seen and shared with everyone if left in the ground. They are not "grave artifacts", and I have never felt that it was wrong to dig there. Personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with collecting artifacts or digging for them, as long as you are not poaching, digging  up gravesites, mounds, ect...Just my opinion on the subject.



x2. this is the only kind of digging that I have ever done..Not foolin with no graves.


----------



## cherokeepride741 (Feb 19, 2009)

*Looting*

I think it is ok to pick up artifacts that are laying on top of the ground, But if  your going digging around in the ground that is just not right, Our ancestors were here thousands of years before us, So the way i look at it if you go digging how do you know if you are digging in a grave or a fire pit or a trash pit, there must be a line of respect factored in, Yes i think bad ju ju will come upon you if you mess around in the wrong place, I think somethings were just meant to be left alone.


----------



## backyard buck (Feb 20, 2009)

just not right to dig in a grave period... not to mention that its against the law.i dont have a problem with people wanting to dig as long as its not a grave and they cover there holes which is by the way why most farmers dont give permission any more.


----------

