# Need help with a new project!



## hogdgz (Mar 13, 2009)

Hey everyone,

I have decided to try and make a WARf bow (i think thats what they call it). I have an old Fred Bear - Black Bear compound. I want to use the riser and put some recurve limbs on it that will make about a 62 inch bow. If I understand it correctly the Black bear is the best one to do this with b/c  of the riser angle and length. I talked to Roger at the last hunt about it so maybe he can chime in with some info. I believe I will have to make some adapters for the limb pockets, and I wonder if i will have to do any work to the shelf. If anyone has any info on how to get started that would be great, and any websites or links to other bows like this. 

Thanks Chase


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## SELFBOW (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm in the same boat. I got an old proline that I'm gonna do. Roger has pm'd me some info but not all I need.
Roger told me TradTalk has an entire section dedicated to warf bows.
Check that site out. Make sure to search for warf bows but put the thread setting at over 30 days to view all threads.


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## F1Rocket (Mar 13, 2009)

I have just acquired a Bear Black Bear for just this reason. Maybe we can all share the experience. I know Roger has been down this road and is the "local expert".....   and TradTalk is the source for searching for a lot of answers.


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## hogdgz (Mar 13, 2009)

I finally found a little info on them, but still dont fully understand the adapters that go in the pockets.

Can you shoot straight of the shelf on these or would I need to do a plunger or flipper rest.


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## SELFBOW (Mar 13, 2009)

from what I read you can do both
Lets get em done before chickawhatchie so we can shoot em. 
I want mine 50#@28.


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## Dennis (Mar 14, 2009)

Me and Rodger will be at the state shoot today come by and check his bows out. Ive seen the adp. plates and once you see them you will understand them, there really simple but you will need to see them to understand.


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## hogdgz (Mar 14, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> from what I read you can do both
> Lets get em done before chickawhatchie so we can shoot em.
> I want mine 50#@28.



Me to, I would like one 62" and 50@28.

Dennis I wish I could make it, but got to many things to do. I saw Rogers at the last hunt but cant really remember how it was set up. Thanks


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## RogerB (Mar 15, 2009)

F1 - using my name and expert in the same sentence about anything is probably being generous, but thanks anyway. 

Last year when I got interested in WARF and QUARF bows (old compound risers with olympic style limbs) I tried to find someone in the area that had some experence with them, no luck. I did a bunch of reading on TRAD TALK and yes there is alot of info about them on that site and a bunch of guys willing to give advice about them. However, I guess it's just the way my brain works, I just couldn't put it all together in my mind. So, I finally found a guy that said he would sell me a Black Bear riser and a set of adapter plates, and the only other thing I would need would be limbs, so I bought them. While I am glad I went ahead and bought the riser and plates, I now realize I paid two to three times too much. Never the less I am still glad I did it because it got me into WARF bows and I love them.
Now that I am shooting them a number of people have expressed interest in them and I am glad to see it, as they are great bows.
I will be happy to try to answer any questions "I can" and will be happy to show anyone the adapter plates needed to mount the limbs. Since I built my first bow (with the purchased plates) I have made plates in a couple of different ways, both of which work equally well.
The reason I redesigned the plates is they are better for a short draw shooter (which I am) using a Black Bear riser. Long draws (over 28) don't need them.
To make your own all you need is a 
1.   A 1/4" thick nylon cutting board (can be purchased at Wal-Mart for about $7, a small one will make probably a dozen bows)
2.   A 1" x 1/2" OD x .328 ID nylon spacer (can be purchesed at Home Depot or Lowe's for less than $1, and you get two)

The tools needed are
1.  a electric drill and assortment of drill bits up to 5/8"(the 5/8" can be a wood bit, the others need to be twist drills.
2.  a band saw (could be done with a hack saw)
3.  a sheet of 80-100 grit sand paper (a belt sander makes it easier but by no means necessary).
4.  a dial caliper is a great help but not necessary.
5.  a set of vice grips.
Anyone coming to a shoot/hunt, that I am going to be at, can bring their materials and tools (cordless drill and bits, hacksaw, sandpaper, and vice grips are the minimum) and I will coach you through making a set.
It is necessary to have your riser and limbs before making your plates as you fit the plates to both.
I have only worked with the Bear risers (although I have a proline I am working on now for a friend) so I can only say this for Bears.
International Limb Fitting "ILF" limbs are listed on 25 and 23 inch risers (standard olympic length risers, bears are 21") If a set of limbs are listed as 40/42s they are 40 on a 25 inch riser and 42 on a 23 inch riser (at 28 inches of course). If they are only listed as say 36s figure that is on a 25 inch riser and they will be 38 on a 23. That is the standard, however if purchasing from an individual this assumption may not be made. Often they will just say the heaver weight trying to sell them. I really don't think 2 pounds makes that much difference so I don't want to make too much of it, except it help to understand exactly what the numbers mean. This is important as in building a bow you want to know what to expect your bow to pull for you. Here is the rule of thumb and should be close, when using a Black Bear riser and ILF limbs, figure 4 pounds over the max the limbs are listed (remember the 40/42s) and 2 pounds for every inch over or under 28 inches of draw you have.
So if you have some 38/40s and you draw is 29 inches you will get a 46 pound bow "approximately", if your draw is 27 you will get a 42 pound bow (at your draw). The second reason all this is important! Most companys making ILF limbs stop at about 44 pound limbs (in their reasonably priced limbs, if you want to pay $500-$600 you can get them to about 48lbs.). so getting a bow over about 50 at 28 with ILF is not easy (we can fudge alittle with shims, which is why I redesigned the plates for myself, and get 3-4 more) but you don't want to go too high and risk damaging the limbs, and they true effency of olympic limbs comes when used fairly close to what the were designed for.
Now for length of bows. ILF limbs come in three lengths; short, medium and long (actually you can get extra short but they are rare). What does this mean, simply on a 25 inch riser (what the big boys in the olympic shoot) longs will give you a 70in bow, mediums a 68 and shorts a 66. A Black Bear riser is 21 inches, so long give you a 66, mediums a 64 and shorts a 62. Prolines are about the same.
hogdgz- you ask a couple of questions I'll go ahead and answer. First, you don't have to do any work to the riser at all (although Bob Gordon, the man who developed WARFs, uses a slightly different, thinner, adapter plate and does modify the riser to do so).
You can either shoot off the shelf (which I do with all my bows) or an elevated rest (which you need if you want to shoot vanes rather than feathers). If you chose to shoot off an elevated rest, you can use a $2 bear weather rest, a $4 proline stick on rest, or all the way up to a cartel rest and plunger costing a hundred dollars or so, they all really work great.
hogdgz - you are going to need short limbs to get a 62 inch bow,
buckbacks - I think I remember your draw was about 29 inches, if so you will need about 44lb. limbs to end up around 50 if you were using a Black Bear, I think the Prolines give you alittle less. Save all the pieces of you old compound and we can shim the plates to bring it up.

Last thing because everyone asks, ALL ILF limbs will shoot Fast Flight.

Actually, this is the last thing, I have to give a disclaimer, I am new to this, and even the real experts say, this is as much art as science, and you can't expect to come out to the exact pound you want. These bows do have some adjustment, for both weight, tiller and center shot (as compound bows do) and that is the things (along with olympic quality limbs, which have R&D by multi-million dollar companies in them) that make them such exceptional shooters.


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## RogerB (Mar 15, 2009)

Oh I forgot, while these bows are great shooters, they are not very pretty. Some creative paint can do wonders though. After being at the TBG state tourny this week end and seeing some of the dip patterns Sipsey River/Big Jim's Bow company had there, I know how I am going to make a couple of my bows beautiful. However, if you are really into beautiful bows, ie beautiful woods and the graceful lines of longbows and most custom recurves, these bows may not be for you.


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## F1Rocket (Mar 15, 2009)

Well, I guess I messed this up. In my excitment, I bought a R.H. bow and I am left handed. 

Anyone want a R.H. Bear Black Bear bow for a WARF project?


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## hogdgz (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks Roger for all the info, I know it took a long time for you to type all that. 

My first question is, If I got the short limbs to make a 62 inch bow would there be alot of stacking, if so I might go with the meduims. I draw a little over 28 inches I believe.


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## RogerB (Mar 16, 2009)

hogdgz - shorts will be fine at your draw, if you were out past 30 we might be getting concerned.


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## RogerB (Mar 16, 2009)

hogdgz - I have a set of short 42s, if you want to bring your riser to a hunt, I will be happy to bolt them on your riser and let you see what you think. Would be alittle lighter than what you are looking for but you can see how they feel.


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## RogerB (Mar 16, 2009)

I did make one mistake in the items needed to make the adapter plates above, #2. the nylon spacer (I gave the wrong size), the correct size is 1 inch x 3/8" OD x .171 ID
Sorry


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## F1Rocket (Mar 16, 2009)

I found someone in Anderson S.C. with a L.H. Black Bear riser that wants a R.H. one! How cool is that, the project is going to get back on track.

Thanks Roger.


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## hogdgz (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks Roger, I think I will wait to start on it until I can get some hands on help b/c I dont quite understand everything. Maybe we can get together one weekend like you said and try some limbs out.

Hey can you build adapter plates for me, or do you have to have the riser?


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## RogerB (Mar 16, 2009)

I can rough them out, but final fitting needs to be with the limbs and riser. They would be very close (within a couple of thousands and may work perfectly, I just can't promise a perfect fit). A little sanding would be all that was needed. Also, I would need to know the weight of the limbs and your draw, to know which ones to make. While ILF means International Limb Fitting and it is supposed to be a standard across the industry, there are slight differences in different companies limbs. While the adapter plates are very simple, a good fit is extremely important to make sure the limbs don't move from side to side, so your bow stays in tune.
If you still have the complete bow, save the small balls (sometimes there are two seprate ones under each limb, and other times there are two that are attached by a flat piece of metal under each one) you "may" need them to get the weight you want.


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## hogdgz (Mar 16, 2009)

Ok thanks Roger. I will have to get with you sometime and maybe we can tackle it. I will be really buisy the next 2 weeks. I am getting married this weekend then going on a cruise the following week. 

Where do you live?


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## F1Rocket (Mar 16, 2009)

Well that's a good excuse to postpone the project, congratulations!


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## RogerB (Mar 16, 2009)

I would say you ARE going to be busy, are you sure you are even going to be able to hunt anymore?
No really, congrads on your upcoming getting hitched.
I live in Lawrenceville, northeast of Atlanta. So we are a long way apart.
I am planning on being at the chickawhatchie hunt, unless something comes up. I will be happy to help you put one together there. I can have most of the work done and we can do final fitting. You can have a string ready to go and probably be shooting in an hour or so after we get together.
If that doesn't work, get your limbs (probably 44s or 46s if possible) and let me know, I will rough out a set and send them to you. Once you have them in hand I can talk you through final fitting over the phone.
Get married and get back home, and then we will talk!
Good luck!


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## hogdgz (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks Roger, PM sent.


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