# Terminated for stealing/Last paycheck question



## chuckb7718 (Dec 30, 2010)

I'll try and make this as short as possible.

Guy that works for us was caught using his company credit card to fuel his personal vehicle. Usage was verified thru both the card issuer's monthly statements and company's logbooks as far as where the supposed company/personal vehicle was at the time.

The guy was caught!

He was confronted with the issue and denied he used the card for personal use. Vehemently!

The sheriff's dept. was contacted and the store's video was pulled and....there he is...fueling his truck at the exact times the fuel company's statement reflects. Him....his truck.....his tag. All on video!

With reps from the S.O.'s office in the office.....He still denies that he used the card for personal use.

The investigating officer states the he's "Tired of his crap" and is taking him to jail.

Boss interjects that "No....As long as he's gone...I'm satisfied!"

So, basically the guy quits.

So now they want to withhold the guy's last check....which is way less than the fuel charges, plus a fair amount owed to the little country store up the road that my boss "kinda" guarantees for his employees.

Personally, I don't care. I do not care because I believe he is completely and totally guilty of every accusation that has been made.

My concern is for my boss. He would've let the guy stay on if he would've admitted the use and paid the money back sans credit card, of course. 

My boss is a very good, if gullible, person.

Here's the question.....

Can they take his last check without legal ramifications?


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## quackwacker (Dec 30, 2010)

nope, they would have to press charges and carry him to court.


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## chuckb7718 (Dec 30, 2010)

quackwacker said:


> nope, they would have to press charges and carry him to court.



That's what I thought.


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## JpEater (Dec 30, 2010)

quackwacker said:


> nope, they would have to press charges and carry him to court.




Agreed. Its unlawfull to take money out of someones paycheck if they are unwilling. Sounds like the boss man will end up writing it off. Its unlikely that the lowlife will ever pay back the money.


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## MGD45 (Dec 30, 2010)

Sure he can.  He's the boss....he pays the man for services rendered through employment.....the man wants to steal from the boss, the boss simply deducts the amount owed out of his check.....happens all the time.

The man can take the boss to court if he wants to.....but then he'll probably spend more money to do that, so he'll probably let it go......

If I was the boss, I would dare the thief to take me to court.  My defense would be the evidence of his stealing.  Besides, the boss still has about 4 years to press charges against the employee for the theft, so if I was the boss & he tried to sue me for the money, then I would pursue charges on him.


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## packrat (Dec 30, 2010)

*?*

With charges and a court he can get more than his last paycheck. The guy needs to count his blessings that his last pay check is the only thing that he loses. You boss should at least give the guy the opportunity to forfeit his last check or face the court system head-on. I think your boss is being MORE than fair.


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## Browtine (Dec 30, 2010)

MGD45 said:


> Sure he can.  He's the boss....he pays the man for services rendered through employment.....the man wants to steal from the boss, the boss simply deducts the amount owed out of his check.....happens all the time.
> 
> The man can take the boss to court if he wants to.....but then he'll probably spend more money to do that, so he'll probably let it go......
> 
> If I was the boss, I would dare the thief to take me to court.  My defense would be the evidence of his stealing.  Besides, the boss still has about 4 years to press charges against the employee for the theft, so if I was the boss & he tried to sue me for the money, then I would pursue charges on him.



Yeah, tell him to handle it this way and maybe they can share a cell at the county jail after they're done prosecuting each other.


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## MGD45 (Dec 30, 2010)

Browtine said:


> Yeah, tell him to handle it this way and maybe they can share a cell at the county jail after they're done prosecuting each other.



Ok.....tell me one LE Agency that would actually arrest & charge the boss.  The paycheck is a civil matter & the boss wouldn't spend one second in a jail cell even if the courts ruled against him.

An employee doesn't have the expectation that he can steal from an employer then receive his full paycheck.  Sorry.....ain't gonna happen.    Steal from your job.....expect to have the theft amount deducted from your paycheck.


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## egomaniac247 (Dec 30, 2010)

I am a "boss" myself.  A Plant Manager actually, and yes, he can deduct the amount from the employees check.  

Depending on the size of the company, there may be some internal corporate policy that says they will pay the employee any hours-owed regardless of reason for termination, including any unused vacation time.  But most larger companies do this because it's easier for them to just pay that than bother with civil lawyer issues.

Smaller companies are more prone to needing to recoup the theft loss.  

Sure the guy could sue them in a civil court but at the end of the day he'd just be costing himself and the defendants more money.


Sorry to hear about this employee.  Company credit cards are a big responsibility and not everyone can be depended on to handle that responsibility.  Seems ridiculous to think that people are so ignorant that they wouldn't realize that the statements have to go to their manager or an accountant who monitors the monthly expenditures.  At my facility EVERY charge comes across my desk at some point and I keep a very close eye on our P&L.  An abusive personal charge would stick out very easily.  

I remember the first company credit card I was given.  It was a travel card with a $20k limit.  I remember being too scared to even use it.  Most company's make the reconciliation process such a burden that you don't even want to use it


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## mattech (Dec 30, 2010)

I would not give him his paycheck. First off I would be suprised if the guy actually has the nerve to walk into the place asking for his check. Secondly companies charge employees all the time for damaging equipment and supplies.


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## deja vu (Dec 31, 2010)

I just terminated a guy for theft of our services.He was using our company phones and computers to call/look at porn.


When I did an inventory of his tools,he was missing several high dollar items.Drill,meter etc.

I took it to Human Resources and it was deducted from his check.When he came to get his check,he asked why it was short.

I explained and advised him to bring the items back and his money would be given to him.

I havent heard anything from him since that day.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 31, 2010)

He most certainly can. 

What concerns me more, if I read your post correctly, is your boss not paying the fuel vendor for the amount charged illegally by the employee. That could end up costing your boss a lot more than firing the employee.


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## rospaw (Dec 31, 2010)

I think your boss will have an issue holding his last pay check. I think he should have had him arrested for theft and listed the dollar amount that he can prove that he stole. Then when court comes up they should issue restitution for the amount. Right now your boss has committed a theft by not paying the wages he has worked for. The worker has a easy case with Ga dept of labor. They are very strict on people getting paid for work they have done. Even if he was charged that day for theft i believe the employer would still have to pay him. My .02


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## chuckb7718 (Dec 31, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> He most certainly can.
> 
> What concerns me more, if I read your post correctly, is your boss not paying the fuel vendor for the amount charged illegally by the employee. That could end up costing your boss a lot more than firing the employee.



Nooo no no no! Mr. B would have a stroke before he did'nt pay a bill he owes!

My concern was that the guy might try to sue him if he holds his check.

He'd be crazy if he did, because this guy is soooooo busted on this, but you never can tell with folks these days.

Also, like I said the amount of fuel he's put in his vehicle is way more than his check, so if he did try and sue he'd stand to lose a LOT more than his last check.

Thanks for all the replies fellas!


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## MGD45 (Dec 31, 2010)

Well.....I just spent about an hour researching Georgia Labor laws in relation to this discussion to make sure I was correct in my line of thinking.  It appears that I need to admit that I was wrong......but not totally. 

So far what I have discovered is that there are virtually no laws that govern wage & hour issues in Georgia & the labor laws are almost non-existent here in protecting employees.  What I have learned is this....

With regards to the OP question.  The employer may certainly deduct cost from the terminated employee's paycheck over the credit card theft.  However, they cannot bring his final paycheck below the amount of the minimum wage at the time. 

So the boss still has to pay him a check for AT LEAST the amount of minimum wage for the last pay-period.....but he can't withhold the entire paycheck.  The boss would have to sue for the remainder stolen from the company

Hope this helps.....


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## golffreak (Dec 31, 2010)

I fired an employee for stealing a couple of years ago. He was around 17 and was doing it just to get fired because his parents would not let him quit. Well, I watched him a few times just to play along until I finally got tired of it. I fired him and told him that his last check would be held until I could determine how much to hold out for the stuff he took.(It was all food or drinks). I finally gave him his check about 1 month later after I deducted what I saw him steal and added another $150 to cover whatever he took that I didn't see. His final check was around $15.


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## Six million dollar ham (Dec 31, 2010)

golffreak said:


> I deducted what I saw him steal and added another $150 to cover whatever he took that I didn't see. His final check was around $15.


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## dawg2 (Dec 31, 2010)

quackwacker said:


> nope, they would have to press charges and carry him to court.



Exactly.


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## Twenty five ought six (Dec 31, 2010)

It is a violation of federal labor laws to make deductions from a person's pay check without their permission.  If it a REAL BIG violation to make any deductions that result in the employee being paid less than the minimum wage.

Even if there's a garnishment against an employee, 40 times the minimum wage is exempt from garnishment.


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## golffreak (Dec 31, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


>



Another cashier saw him take some food but was afraid to tell. Once I fired him she began talking.

And if anyone is wondering if I felt bad for doing it....NO!!
Thieves deserve what they get. He's lucky I didn't call the police.


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## reylamb (Jan 1, 2011)

I don't believe I would be seeking legal advice on an internet message board over much of anything.  I would especially not be doing it on an issue that is covered under federal labor laws.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 4, 2011)

golffreak said:


> Another cashier saw him take some food but was afraid to tell. Once I fired him she began talking.
> 
> And if anyone is wondering if I felt bad for doing it....NO!!
> Thieves deserve what they get. He's lucky I didn't call the police.



It's just that the $150 for stolen items seems arbitrary.  Or did you calculate that somehow?


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## jmfauver (Jan 5, 2011)

They can withhold his last check, and take the deductions out before giving it to them.If he sues the employer all they ( the employer)(has to do is prove the amount with held and the lawsuit is over.If he has stolen several thousand dollars worth of fuel for personnel use and only loses his last check he is lucky....Jail plus full restitution would be the result of trial...


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 5, 2011)

Twenty five ought six said:


> It is a violation of federal labor laws to make deductions from a person's pay check without their permission. If it a REAL BIG violation to make any deductions that result in the employee being paid less than the minimum wage.
> 
> Even if there's a garnishment against an employee, 40 times the minimum wage is exempt from garnishment.


 
Georgia is a "right to work" State. Your performance can also effect  your right to get paid upon termination. You could try and sue, but you better have deeper pockets than the company that just fired you.


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## germag (Jan 5, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Georgia is a "right to work" State. Your performance can also effect  your right to get paid upon termination. You could try and sue, but you better have deeper pockets than the company that just fired you.



"Right to Work" doesn't have anything to do with this. "Right to Work" is another name for the Taft Hartley Act, which prohibits unions from making agreements with employers to require compulsory union membership or payment of union fees as a condition of employment.

I believe you're actually thinking about "At-Will Employment", which simply says that an employer has a right to terminate employment for "good cause, bad cause, or no cause" (as long as no illegal discrimination takes place), and that the employee has the same right to terminate employment for any reason, as long as there are no contracts in place.

Neither of those give an employer a right to illegally withhold a terminated employees pay.


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## dawg2 (Jan 5, 2011)

I still stand by the fact that it is ILLEGAL to withhold wages for theft.


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## MudDucker (Jan 5, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Georgia is a "right to work" State. Your performance can also effect  your right to get paid upon termination. You could try and sue, but you better have deeper pockets than the company that just fired you.



Lets keep this real simple ... Wrong, this has nothing to do with "right to work" and if you withhold and violate minimum wage laws, the feds will enforce it.  You need to go back to the midnight law school down at the Fulton Co. Jail and get some more training.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 5, 2011)

MudDucker said:


> Lets keep this real simple ... Wrong, this has nothing to do with "right to work" and if you withhold and violate minimum wage laws, the feds will enforce it. You need to go back to the midnight law school down at the Fulton Co. Jail and get some more training.


 
That is on a simple garnishment of wages on a currently employed individual. Staying funds owed to the employer from loans or received otherwise are perfectly acceptable upon termination, providing proof of receipt of funds or matierials in kind can be made. I would suspect that an admission of guilt would suffice for said evidence.

Plus, Georgia is one of the few states that does not regulate when a paycheck must be issued, thus the employer can hold it indefinitely, pending further investigation of allegations.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 5, 2011)

MudDucker said:


> Lets keep this real simple ... Wrong, this has nothing to do with "right to work" and if you withhold and violate minimum wage laws, the feds will enforce it.  You need to go back to the midnight law school down at the Fulton Co. Jail and get some more training.




Is there an echo in here?


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 5, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Georgia is a "right to work" State. Your performance can also effect your right to get paid upon termination. You could try and sue, but you better have deeper pockets than the company that just fired you.



Keep on believing that.

Stiff an employee of his wages, and you will get to pay his and yours attorney.  Double the pleasure, double the fun.



Miguel Cervantes said:


> Plus, Georgia is one of the few states that does not regulate when a paycheck must be issued, thus the employer can hold it indefinitely, pending further investigation of allegations.




Really?

I know some people who thought that.

What they found out is that the damages are three times the wages owed, plus attorney fees.


Nothing gives a person a rosier view on life than having to fork over about $5000 in attorney fees for trying to stiff a minimum wage employee out of a week's wages.  And unlike most claims, the award of attorney fees is not discretionary.


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## mickbear (Jan 6, 2011)

chuckb7718 said:


> The investigating officer states the he's "Tired of his crap" and is taking him to jail.
> 
> Boss interjects that "No....As long as he's gone...I'm satisfied!"


thats where the mistake was made.the guy is a thief plain and simple.lock him up.


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## Michael F. Gray (Jan 6, 2011)

Many years ago Dr. Bob Jones,Sr. made the statement,"You can't get to right by doing wrong." It applies here. Boss may with hold final check with no ramifications, ...but, if a complaint is filed alleging non payment of earned wages, or a civil suit filed, he will wish he had wrote the final check and asked the former employee to pay him for the purchase(s) mentioned. If he refuses I would chalk it up to experiance.


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## golffreak (Jan 6, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> It's just that the $150 for stolen items seems arbitrary.  Or did you calculate that somehow?



We used video, cashier statements, and the fact that he always took the same items.


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## elfiii (Jan 6, 2011)

Twenty five ought six said:


> It is a violation of federal labor laws to make deductions from a person's pay check without their permission.  If it a REAL BIG violation to make any deductions that result in the employee being paid less than the minimum wage.
> 
> Even if there's a garnishment against an employee, 40 times the minimum wage is exempt from garnishment.





MudDucker said:


> Lets keep this real simple ... Wrong, this has nothing to do with "right to work" and if you withhold and violate minimum wage laws, the feds will enforce it.  You need to go back to the midnight law school down at the Fulton Co. Jail and get some more training.



I'm going with this since these guys are real live attorneys.


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## Meriwether Mike (Jan 6, 2011)

Make him sign a seperation notice showing termination for theft, give him his full check and count your blessings to be done with this thief. He cannot collect unemployment or use you as a reference.


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## dwhee87 (Jan 8, 2011)

I've had to terminate several people (theft, insubordination, attendance, etc.),who had outstanding company credit card balances they stuck me with. I withheld the amount they owed (right or wrong). Two of them claimed unemployment, which I contested. I won one and lost one, but no one at GA DOL ever said anything about the money I withheld to cover the credit card charges.


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