# Field Trials



## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

I am interested in trying a few this year, but do not know much about them. I understand that it is a very distracting envirnment for the dogs, but I am more curious as to the general layout of a test. What is the structure of an average field trial? What errors cause a dog to be penalized? And lastly, can a CKC dog run in these AKC events? 

I know some of yall run these so let me hear your experiences and advice. Just looking for a game to play with my dog in the off season and I think he will do well.


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 18, 2013)

Hunt tests or field trials??? Way yonder big difference. Ft marks may be a quad out to 450 yards. 300-400 yard cheaty water blinds.
I think u are talking about hunt tests. And it would dpend on the stake you run. And in your are there are more HRC tests than AKC. Hunt tests are a blast and addicting.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Hunt tests or field trials??? Way yonder big difference. Ft marks may be a quad out to 450 yards. 300-400 yard cheaty water blinds.
> I think u are talking about hunt tests. And it would dpend on the stake you run. And in your are there are more HRC tests than AKC. Hunt tests are a blast and addicting.



I was thinking field trials, TT. I like the idea of competing against other dogs more than the standard of the test itself. But I am not opposed at all to running hunt tests. 

What do you consider a 400 yard cheaty water blind?


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 18, 2013)

No offense to u or your dog but FTs arent the game to play with a young dog and train after duck season for the spring trials. Its several years of intense work. 
Cheaty blind- like a long down the shore. Keeping ur dog in the water or casting off a point 300 yards away back into some skinny water.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> No offense to u or your dog but FTs arent the game to play with a young dog and train after duck season for the spring trials. Its several years of intense work.
> Cheaty blind- like a long down the shore. Keeping ur dog in the water or casting off a point 300 yards away back into some skinny water.



No offense taken. Dog is trained and I am looking to see how good he is compared to other dogs. Whats the worse that can happen? DQ'd? 

I have watched some videos of hunt tests and I am impressed with the casting and blind work but have yet to see a 400 yard water retrieve. Maybe a majority land blind w/ an overcast to water but not a 400 yard complete water retrieve.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

killer elite said:


> I dont think that they run quads or blinds in derbys and I dont think that you will see that kind of stuff in  The Q ( Qaulifying )Which most Master hunting dogs should be able to run and complete. It all depends if you want to pass a test or see who has the best dog.



I am more interested in what happens once you are at the line with your dog. Do you recieve a short and long bird? are there blind birds as well? etc.

Good talking to ya last night, Killer. Thanks for all the help!


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 18, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> No offense taken. Dog is trained and I am looking to see how good he is compared to other dogs. Whats the worse that can happen? DQ'd?
> 
> I have watched some videos of hunt tests and I am impressed with the casting and blind work but have yet to see a 400 yard water retrieve. Maybe a majority land blind w/ an overcast to water but not a 400 yard complete water retrieve.



Hunt tests dont have those distances.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Hunt tests dont have those distances.



Sorry I mispoke...I meant FTs. But like I said these were all youtube videos so I am not certain how accurate they are.


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 18, 2013)

Come up one weekend and well set up a finished hut test setup for you like theyre really set up and see how he does. Amd then youll know a little what you need to work on and if its reasonable to try a field trial.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Come up one weekend and well set up a finished hut test setup for you like theyre really set up and see how he does. Amd then youll know a little what you need to work on and if its reasonable to try a field trial.



Thatll work and I appreciate the invite. Do yall recommend any videos online that show a field trial in action? Im sure yall have recorded your dogs running these tests. Thanks again.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

killer elite said:


> A derby dog is a dog that is under 2 years of age and the derby is a marking test. No blinds mostly doubles and long singles. I goot your blind stuff laid out and ready for you next week end.



Youre a good man killer. I dont care what anybody says about ya!


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## Shakey Head (Jan 18, 2013)

Ya man Hunt test's are what you are after for you and your dog, I think being a duckhunter myself.  FT dogs take years of a Pro Trainer environment and the trials itself do not really simulate a hunting environment (Guy in White jacket at 400 yards throwing multiple marks) Field Trial is like asphalt track where Hunt Test is dirt track is the best analogy.  

Running your dog on 100-150 yard cold blinds from a dog stand and also running multiple marks from a dog stand through cover and water is hunt test format.  

400-500 yard long marks thrown by a guy in a white jacket across a field and 400-500 yard cold blinds across open fields with multiple changes in cover (water, ditches, hills, trash piles) is Field Trial format.  How straight a line your dog runs and how well they mark and handle at extremly long distances (250+ yards) are things to consider when entering FT.  There is less room for margin of error in FT since you are competing against all the other dogs in the trial where as hunt test it is a pass/fail on the test for you and your dog.  

There are UKC (HRCH and GRHRCH titles) and AKC (JH, SH, MH titles) hunt tests.  Pick what you are after.  There are several good retriever clubs in the area including Old South HRC, North GA HRC, and Atlanta Retriever Club (ARC).  Check into any of these 3 clubs websites and attend a training day or try to contact someone in the clubs (several members on this board), you will be throughly suprised.  Alot of duck hunters too...


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Shakey Head said:


> Ya man Hunt test's are what you are after for you and your dog, I think being a duckhunter myself.  FT dogs take years of a Pro Trainer environment and the trials itself do not really simulate a hunting environment (Guy in White jacket at 400 yards throwing multiple marks) Field Trial is like asphalt track where Hunt Test is dirt track is the best analogy.
> 
> Running your dog on 100-150 yard cold blinds from a dog stand and also running multiple marks from a dog stand through cover and water is hunt test format.
> 
> ...



Thanks that makes things clearer. They both sound interesting but like I said it is still appealing to compete against other dogs too. Plus it would be something to strive for at least.


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 18, 2013)

Competing against the hunt test standard is pretty competitive for u and the dog. Dont rule it out.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

killer elite said:


> You dog needs to be steady. Come down next week end and we will try a derby test on your dog.



That would be good. I am going to set up the toughest scenario I can think of this weekend and video tape it after a hunt and post it up. Maybe then yall can decide where I should start my dog in these tests/trials.


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## Shakey Head (Jan 18, 2013)

No problem ThunderRoad!  Good luck with it.  I live on the other side of Monroe heading torwards Madison.  Once duck season is over and before Turkey season starts, in between crappie and trout fishing and rabbit hunting, and also when the bass on oconee start biting good, a few friends get together and train our duck mutts on our lunch breaks....  Lemme know if you interested sometime...


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Shakey Head said:


> No problem ThunderRoad!  Good luck with it.  I live on the other side of Monroe heading torwards Madison.  Once duck season is over and before Turkey season starts, in between crappie and trout fishing and rabbit hunting, and also when the bass on oconee start biting good, a few friends get together and train our duck mutts on our lunch breaks....  Lemme know if you interested sometime...



That would work! You ought to meet me and my boys out on the oconee for some flathead fishin sometime too. Bring the dogs and we can work em while we drink beer and check lines.


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## Tag-a-long (Jan 18, 2013)

Thunder, I could be wrong (it happened once  ) but I don't think he will be eligiable to run unless you enter under the PAL or ILP program (easy to do but does require spay/neuter).  

If you want to play, I would recommend hunt tests.  They are plenty competitive in their own right.  Get with me tomorrow and I'll let you know what's coming up in your area.  

There will be a couple field trials in your backyard coming up soon if you want to check them out.  There is a double Derby/Qual the 2/15 - 2/17 and a Derby/Amatuer/Open on 3/15 - 3/17.  Both are held at Sandhill Kennels in Lincolnton.  I'll be training up there on 2/2.  Bring Shelby out and we'll let him run some big dog marks/blinds.


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 18, 2013)

Tag-a-long said:


> Thunder, I could be wrong (it happened once  ) but I don't think he will be eligiable to run unless you enter under the PAL or ILP program (easy to do but does require spay/neuter).
> 
> If you want to play, I would recommend hunt tests.  They are plenty competitive in their own right.  Get with me tomorrow and I'll let you know what's coming up in your area.
> 
> There will be a couple field trials in your backyard coming up soon if you want to check them out.  There is a double Derby/Qual the 2/15 - 2/17 and a Derby/Amatuer/Open on 3/15 - 3/17.  Both are held at Sandhill Kennels in Lincolnton.  I'll be training up there on 2/2.  Bring Shelby out and we'll let him run some big dog marks/blinds.



Thanks, Elaine. I'll see you at the fields tomorrow!


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## Hairy Dawg (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm in agreement with most of the other suggestions here. Get your feet wet in hunt tests first. If your dog runs well there, then look at the field trials. Hunt tests came along because field trials really didn't simulate realistic hunting situations at all. HTs are still tough, & it takes a well trained dog to pass them.


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## ryano (Jan 18, 2013)

killer elite said:


> . Dont forget I was there when they started hunt test.



No worries there. You will not let us


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## Shakey Head (Jan 18, 2013)

ThunderRoad, Elaine is the nicest person you will meet in the hunt test/retriever world.  She will be able to guide you with whatever you want to accomplish.  She has helped me tremendously with my black male lab also.

As for the flathead fishing, lemme know, we are up there all the time!!  Juggin season isnt far off


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## nhancedsvt (Jan 18, 2013)

ryano said:


> No worries there. You will not let us



Beat me to it


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## vrooom (Jan 18, 2013)

Now wen the first duck hunting dog DVD came out I was in the east ocean running fald tralls with those guys. It doss snow ther. Rain two!  You forget, 1888 w had three eights in the year and I know it.  fC is two letters. hRVh is 4 so it's nat better. Believe me boys. Merganzers is ducks and the king of England huns them. Plenty of water in the lake of oceans. Fields trials dog are dogs that run field trials because a mastr hunter dog can hunt too. Trust me


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 19, 2013)

I agree with vroom.


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## Ga Woodrow (Jan 19, 2013)

Go watch both.  You will find many will try and talk you out of field trials, but go watch and if you want to run a derby or Q....do it.  Trials are fun and it is cool as a handler to run against others.  It is big boy stuff though, but both tests and trials are a blast and I would encourage you to attend a trial and talk with folks there.  Most think it is an uppity crowd, but you will meet some nice folks who will explain things to you, and the dog work is exceptional.  Make time to go watch the big dogs in the open or am it is very cool to see what they can do.  I have run both venues, and enjoy both but trials are more appealing to me from a competative standpoint and I have seen exceptional duck dogs that run both.


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## Steven Farr (Jan 20, 2013)

vrooom said:


> Now wen the first duck hunting dog DVD came out I was in the east ocean running fald tralls with those guys. It doss snow ther. Rain two!  You forget, 1888 w had three eights in the year and I know it.  fC is two letters. hRVh is 4 so it's nat better. Believe me boys. Merganzers is ducks and the king of England huns them. Plenty of water in the lake of oceans. Fields trials dog are dogs that run field trials because a mastr hunter dog can hunt too. Trust me



That could be the funniest thing I have ever read on here.  This is real humor.


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## ngaduck (Jan 20, 2013)

Yeah, why not just run both?


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 20, 2013)

ngaduck said:


> Yeah, why not just run both?



can i hold a dollar?


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 22, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> Do yall recommend any videos online that show a field trial in action?



here's a nice little water blind i saw today. He didn't do so well.


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## Mark K (Jan 22, 2013)

Too dang complicated! I'd just send him down wind and let him find it, then run the bank back. My dog would have given me the "paw" if I gave him that many commands.

But, the dogs that can do it are truely amazing!


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 22, 2013)

Well after hunting Saturday morning and also running Shelby for a tower shoot in the afternoon, Tag-a-long and RuttnBuck set up a seasoned test for my dog to run. Scotty H. also helped out and allowed me to watch how he handled his dog for each mark and the blind. Shelby did okay on the 3 marks but struggled mightly with the blind which was maybe 60 yards. Overall, he would have failed the test but I am confident that he will pass a seasoned HT with a couple months work.

It taught me a few things though regarding handling him and how to do so in a test environment. Things like allowing the pup to choose his first mark and making sure to read his body language when choosing subsequent marks. I know that running him after a full day of retrieving was not an accurate display of his skill set but there is definitely work to be done.

The following morning I had to send him on a 50 yard blind in the timber and he took a great line and showed plenty of trust in my handling. I am guessing that he was worn out the night before.

Thanks again Elaine for setting up the test and I hope to see you soon at an event!


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 22, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> here's a nice little water blind i saw today. He didn't do so well.



Why is this guy casting his dog that much? I understand he was trying to line it up with the far left side point, but at one time he has the dog on that line and still remote sits and casts the dog again. Doesnt make any sense to me.


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## Joe Overby (Jan 22, 2013)

A dogs natural tendency is to peel off left and cheat the bank on the BACKSIDE of the point.  By stopping the dog on the point, even though he is on line, and by giving him that right back cast you are telling the dog DO NOT cheat the bank, rather, get back in the water and swim down the shore.  Overall, NOT a good water blind in the AM division...IMO.  There will be dogs that do it MUCH better.  If you take TT's advice and come up and train with us I've got a qualified all age dog you can watch run with your own 2 eyes and get a great feel for what we are asking of a dog at that level.  I also have a handful of dogs at ALL levels in the HT game so you can see what is expected of them as well.  We would love to have you.


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 22, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> .  If you take TT's advice and come up and train with us I've got a qualified all age dog you can watch run with your own 2 eyes .



so yesterday, that same QAA dog and my boykin made me and bruce look like retards on the last set of check down marks we ran when we had to both handle our "great" dogs to a 20 yard eraser bird after running the big go bird. oh yeah, and that was after both our dogs deciding they wanted the short bird first when we were demanding the long bird....


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 22, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> but at one time he has the dog on that line and still remote sits and casts the dog again. Doesnt make any sense to me.



joe probably answered it for you but from what ive learned,  when you get to that spot in the blind (you gotta know where it is before you even start running it) in other words- know where your dog is gonna try and cheat. And you have to know, the moment my dog beaches on the end of that point, with the angle of the point, most LIKELY 99% of the time if i let him roll he's gonna roll on up that point of land. They want to see you put your dog back in the water right there and swim down the shore. 
TONS and TONS of reps on tech water will show you what your dog needs. Cause its all gonna get jumbled up in their little doggy minds. 
Do i get on that point??? DO i swim past that point??? Do I get on the island? Do i swim past the island? I see a channel? Do i stay in the channel??

We try and teach pictures. so the dog looks out and thinks- Ok, ive seen this before....I've seen it work. Me and joe at a finished water blind back in the fall that was EATING dogs up left and right. Our dogs looked out and saw a picture they've seen 100 times in training. None of our groups dogs had a second of confusion. Knew exactly where they were supposed to be and did it.


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## T Tolbert (Jan 22, 2013)

Dang it I want a dog !!! It's killing me


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## Joe Overby (Jan 22, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> so yesterday, that same QAA dog and my boykin made me and bruce look like retards on the last set of check down marks we ran when we had to both handle our "great" dogs to a 20 yard eraser bird after running the big go bird. oh yeah, and that was after both our dogs deciding they wanted the short bird first when we were demanding the long bird....



He neglected to tell me about that...those check-downs plague a lot of REALLY, REALLY GOOD FT dogs...you gettin ready for the Derby yet??


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## Joe Overby (Jan 22, 2013)

killer elite said:


> I dont think that they run quads or blinds in derbys and I dont think that you will see that kind of stuff in  The Q ( Qaulifying )Which most Master hunting dogs should be able to run and complete. It all depends if you want to pass a test or see who has the best dog.



You will see it in the Q week in, week out.  No offense Killer but, there is a HUGE difference in the Q and a Master test.  There is an even bigger difference in a QAA dog and a GOOD MH.  I would even go so far as to say the majority of all the Master dogs out there wouldn't even make it of the first series of the Q these days.  

While they don't run blinds or quads in derbys, they RARELY run singles.  That said I saw a derby last year with a 530 yard memory bird with 3 re-entries.  The Dang go bird was 225!!  The minor stakes have gotten extremely competitive in the last decade and as a result they have gotten harder...MUCH harder.


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## Joe Overby (Jan 22, 2013)

If I had a dog that could compete in HRC and AKC HTs and Field Trial OPEN you're dang right I would run him in all 3!! The only reason I haven't run any FTs in the past couple years is because I retired my "big" dog.  My young prospect is only 18 months but we should be running Q's by fall.  I have a client dog you should see hit the FT scene by late spring...we just finished up her HRCH last fall.  

The Q has really changed and evolved over the years.  The standard for the hunting dog now is an AKC SH or an HRC HR title...no where near the level of a QAA dog.  FTs have gotten MUCH harder and much more competitive.  I honestly feel that this is in part due to the fact that the dogs are better AND the advent of the training programs on dvd that you love so much, trainers have gotten better.


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## comallard (Jan 22, 2013)

Don't get in the FT game. Even if you have deep pockets, you will end up broke.


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 22, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> ..you gettin ready for the Derby yet??



Luckily i have 15 months before she ages out. And she may have run the big mark yesterday from the barn down that big hill all the way to the bottom as good as any of the big dogs. So maybe well get there.


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## Joe Overby (Jan 22, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Luckily i have 15 months before she ages out. And she may have run the big mark yesterday from the barn down that big hill all the way to the bottom as good as any of the big dogs. So maybe well get there.



Thats 415+....just sayin...


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## Turkey Trax (Jan 22, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Thats 415+....just sayin...



well don't tell Gracie....

I was figuring around 350. She took a good line then broke down in the bottom around 60 yards from the bird when she hit the tall brush that bruce left down there and had to put on a big hunt but she didnt back side the gun like every other dog did. But she saw the bird real good all the way to the ground and didn't get flustered after having to drop off that big hill where you lose the dog for a couple seconds.


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