# Identify this Muzzleloader



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

It is made by thompson center arms, but I dont know what model it is.  I just call it a Hawken


----------



## rhbama3 (Jun 14, 2011)

That looks like my TC Hawken Renegade.


----------



## fishfryer (Jun 14, 2011)

You sure that's not a Renegade? You beat me to it Rhbama3,by just a second.


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

I dont know what it is.  How would I tell if it a renegade?  The thing weighs 20lb (well it feels like it) But I love it, I am trying to work up a load with prb or buffalo bullets.


----------



## rhbama3 (Jun 14, 2011)

Lorren68 said:


> I dont know what it is.  How would I tell if it a renegade?  The thing weighs 20lb (well it feels like it) But I love it, I am trying to work up a load with prb or buffalo bullets.



Okay, i just looked at mine. It is a 50 Cal. that i bought around 1994 and the word Renegade is imprinted after "50 Cal" on the barrel. Your pics look exactly like mine, but maybe someone with more expertise can confirm.


----------



## fishfryer (Jun 14, 2011)

Lorren68 said:


> I dont know what it is.  How would I tell if it a renegade?  The thing weighs 20lb (well it feels like it) But I love it, I am trying to work up a load with prb or buffalo bullets.



The renegade model,I believe, had only iron furniture,the indented forestock, and a squared off buttstock. The internet is the easy way to check on it if you don't believe replies on thread. Google Thompson Center Renegade,if you go through the list that comes up,you'll probably be satisfied.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jun 14, 2011)

I think it is a Renegade too. Thompson Center`s version of a Hawken rifle has a brass capbox in the stock, I think.


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

Well what ever it is called I like it.  I was just curious about it, so now all I need to do is work up a load for it and enjoy shooting it.   Thanks everyone for the help.  Fishfryer, I was not trying to imply that I did not belive you, I simply do not know what makes a hawken a hawken or a renegade a renegade.  I was wanting to know how to identify the model in case I find another one.  I love side lock muzzleloaders (I own 2 at this time).   Thanks to all of you for the help.


----------



## 35 Whelen (Jun 14, 2011)

Renegade.  Owned one about 20 years ago, regret selling it!


----------



## fishfryer (Jun 14, 2011)

Lorren68 said:


> Well what ever it is called I like it.  I was just curious about it, so now all I need to do is work up a load for it and enjoy shooting it.   Thanks everyone for the help.  Fishfryer, I was not trying to imply that I did not belive you, I simply do not know what makes a hawken a hawken or a renegade a renegade.  I was wanting to know how to identify the model in case I find another one.  I love side lock muzzleloaders (I own 2 at this time).   Thanks to all of you for the help.



Lorren no offense taken,reread my post about iron furniture,that's the butt plate,triggerguard,wedge plates,etc. On the Hawken those pieces are brass,as well as the capbox/patchbox as noted by Nic,your Renegade does not have those features.


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

fishfryer said:


> Lorren no offense taken,reread my post about iron furniture,that's the butt plate,triggerguard,wedge plates,etc. On the Hawken those pieces are brass,as well as the capbox/patchbox as noted by Nic,your Renegade does not have those features.



Thanks for pointing that out I am a little dense sometimes.   You would not happen to know a good starter load for a prb and pyrodex.  I have read on several forums and it just gets confusing to me, under wads .15 patch no wad .18 patch .10 patch seems like a fellow could spend a fortune just playing with all the different combos


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

one more stupid question.................... Is it still called a hawken as in a TC renegade hawken?  I know I aint the sharpest tool in the shed!


----------



## fishfryer (Jun 14, 2011)

Lorren68 said:


> one more stupid question.................... Is it still called a hawken as in a TC renegade hawken?  I know I aint the sharpest tool in the shed!


Soon after Lewis and Clark's trip to the west was over Easterners started going west to trap furbearing animals. The west had bigger and badder animals than the east. The smaller caliber rifles were being replaced by rifles of bigger caliber,and more strength,and with shorter barrels to make it better for shooting from horseback. One of the firms making such a weapon,was the Hawkin or Hawkens brothers.There is some question about the proper spelling. These fellows eventually set up shop im St.Louis to better cater to the fur trade. The Hawken/Hawken rifle soon gained a great reputation for reliability,ruggedness,and accuracy. When Thompson Center began making muzzleloaders to fill the demand for modern black powder shooters,they borrowed the name to appeal to buyers of their guns. After huge success with the Hawken,they decided to build a more reasonably priced version,the Renegade,it was to be offered in 58 caliber also,to appeal to the really big bore crowd. A minimum of frills and fluff,with plenty of authority,the Renegade.(no, I don't work for Thompson Center)Many people because of the success of the Hawken,call all rifles of similar configuration a Hawken,they were called mountain rifles,and now are referred to as plains rifles.What caliber is your Renegade? You probably have a one in 48 twist which is designed to fire roundball or conical bullets. I would use blackpowder,start off around 50 grains with an appropriate sized ball,and a patch that loads easy. Patch thickness is a learned thing,as is optimum load. Slowly change your load to the best, and safest for you. Thompson Center will supply you with an owner's manual,probably at no cost. To shoot conical bullets start with the same powder load,be sure to lube the bullet before starting it. Don't be intimidated with the rifle,you'll master it in no time,and have fun.


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks Fishfryer, Than explains alot for me! My rifle is a .50, and I will take your advice on working up a load.


----------



## rhbama3 (Jun 14, 2011)

fishfryer said:


> Soon after Lewis and Clark's trip to the west was over Easterners started going west to trap furbearing animals. The west had bigger and badder animals than the east. The smaller caliber rifles were being replaced by rifles of bigger caliber,and more strength,and with shorter barrels to make it better for shooting from horseback. One of the firms making such a weapon,was the Hawkin or Hawkens brothers.There is some question about the proper spelling. These fellows eventually set up shop im St.Louis to better cater to the fur trade. The Hawken/Hawken rifle soon gained a great reputation for reliability,ruggedness,and accuracy. When Thompson Center began making muzzleloaders to fill the demand for modern black powder shooters,they borrowed the name to appeal to buyers of their guns. After huge success with the Hawken,they decided to build a more reasonably priced version,the Renegade,it was to be offered in 58 caliber also,to appeal to the really big bore crowd. A minimum of frills and fluff,with plenty of authority,the Renegade.(no, I don't work for Thompson Center)Many people because of the success of the Hawken,call all rifles of similar configuration a Hawken,they were called mountain rifles,and now are referred to as plains rifles.What caliber is your Renegade? You probably have a one in 48 twist which is designed to fire roundball or conical bullets. I would use blackpowder,start off around 50 grains with an appropriate sized ball,and a patch that loads easy. Patch thickness is a learned thing,as is optimum load. Slowly change your load to the best, and safest for you. Thompson Center will supply you with an owner's manual,probably at no cost. To shoot conical bullets start with the same powder load,be sure to lube the bullet before starting it. Don't be intimidated with the rifle,you'll master it in no time,and have fun.





Lorren68 said:


> Thanks Fishfryer, Than explains alot for me! My rifle is a .50, and I will take your advice on working up a load.



FishFryer is right. I did call mine a Hawken Renegade( watched Jeremiah Johnson too many times i guess). It's correct designation is the Renegade without Hawken in front. If my memory serves correctly, the Renegade is designated for 110gr. of Pyrodex max. My favorite load was 100gr. of Pyrodex and a 320gr. TC Maxi ball. Since it was iron sights i never tried to take a shot over 75 yards but it was accurate and devastating on deer and hogs.


----------



## Headsortails (Jun 14, 2011)

Your gun is a Thompson Center Renegade. They were made to be a more primitive version of the Hawken. I still hunt with mine and I always feel like I have "hunted" whenever I carry it. There is something about the old style that just feels good in your hand. 90 grains of Pyrodex ( or the equivalent) and a 320 grain Maxi-ball do a great job on game and is very accurate to 75 yards. These guns can be scoped and there are aftermarket sights that make them more accurate. Enjoy your gun. I just started letting my 17 yr. old son use mine and I can't get it back.


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 14, 2011)

obrunson said:


> Your gun is a Thompson Center Renegade. They were made to be a more primitive version of the Hawken. I still hunt with mine and I always feel like I have "hunted" whenever I carry it. There is something about the old style that just feels good in your hand. 90 grains of Pyrodex ( or the equivalent) and a 320 grain Maxi-ball do a great job on game and is very accurate to 75 yards. These guns can be scoped and there are aftermarket sights that make them more accurate. Enjoy your gun. I just started letting my 17 yr. old son use mine and I can't get it back.



Sounds like a good excuse to buy yourself a new one


----------



## 35 Whelen (Jun 14, 2011)

Mine was 54 caliber, I only used black powder (FFg) and TC 435 grain Maxi-Hunter (prelubricated w/Natural Lube) conical bullets.  Very accurate out to 100 yards with iron sights.  Can not remember how many grains of powder I used, long time ago.


----------



## tv_racin_fan (Jun 18, 2011)

Lorren that is a Renegade, a shooters rifle.

According to some real good shooters there should be two or more real good loads for each projectile you may want to try. Something about harmonics...

That rifle has whats called a patent breech. This means that there is a chamber at the breech that is smaller in diameter than the inside diameter of the barrel. You can confirm this with a small diameter dowel run down the barrel (way smaller then the barrel diameter) feeling around at the breech until you get the dowel into this "chamber". YOU NEVER EVER want to load less powder than it takes to fill this chamber UNLESS you are loading a blank load. You also want to be sure to get a brush small enough to go down into this chamber so you can keep it clean. (by the way I clean my BP rifles with soap n water or just water, sometimes I mix in some windex but honestly plain ole water does the job and you can lube/protect it with crisco or better yet bear grease, BP fouling and most petroleum products do not get along at all)

After confirming what the breech chamber capacity is you work up at about 5 grain intervals until the group gets tight then starts to widen again. You can then work around the tightest load in smaller increments until you find the best small charge load for your rifle. Many people use this load for just plinking or smaller game. Then starting at the max load in the manual work down until the group gets tighter then widens and this area should be your larger game hunting load.


----------



## huntin1 (Jun 26, 2011)

The Renegade is a very nice shooting rifle. I have several friends that have them and they love them. For reference, this is a Thompson Center Hawken, also in 50 cal:








huntin1


----------



## Lorren68 (Jun 26, 2011)

Sweet rifle huntin1


----------



## SgtPat (Jul 7, 2011)

I hope this helps.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239551961


----------



## hawgrider1200 (Jul 16, 2011)

*TC renegade*

I bought a Renegade new in the box in the later part of the 80's. I still have it and shoot it at times. Mine is a 54 cal and is desigend by TC to hold 110 grains of powder. My younger brother has the Hawken ( same gun Brass furniture) in 50 cal and his owners manual says to load no more than 90 grains of powder. I like to shoot the TC maxihunter conicals and so does my brother we get fairly good groups with that bullet at maximum loads. for hunting deer I feel that it is best to use the maximum load for maximum penetration.


----------



## godogs57 (Jul 18, 2011)

Love my 54 caliber Renegade! I also have a 54 caliber T/C Hawken and a 45 caliber T/C Seneca...all well built traditional muzzleloaders.

Do yourself a favor and order you some No Excuses m/l bullets...they will outperform any of the T/C bullets, Great Plains bullets, etc....phenomenal bullets for your Renegade. Highly accurate and hit like a ton of bricks! I just thought my m/l's were accurate until I got some No Excuses...then I saw the light.


----------



## Ruger Redhawk (Jul 19, 2011)

That is a Renegade. No doubt in my mind.


I've had a T/C Renegade for close to 40 years. The s/n range is 17,600 Mine's the 54 cal. A some years back the original stock cracked. T/C replaced everything but the barrel and ramrod. They had made changes over the years and the old parts were different. The new stock has a recoil pad which I don't want.

I put it way and haven't fired it since. It's laid a few deer low more then a few times.


----------



## wallacem (Sep 8, 2011)

If it is a Renagade it should have the name on the side of the bbl.  Mine does.  wallacem


----------

