# what made you an atheist?



## coonkilla (Aug 15, 2012)

I was just wondering what made some here an atheist. Was it a bad time at a church,or just got out of bed and said I what to be an atheist


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## atlashunter (Aug 15, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> I was just wondering what made some here an atheist. Was it a bad time at a church,or just got out of bed and said I what to be an atheist



For me it was a process that took years. I don't know that I can point to one particular thing that did it other than asking questions that challenged what I had been taught. The two most important questions being "If the truth and my faith stand at odds, which would I choose?" and "How do I determine whether or not my beliefs are true?". I posted a set of videos on here that told a deconversion story very similar to mine. Not in the details but in the thought processes.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 15, 2012)

i'm not an atheist , i claim deist....my journey started when i was a young teen, i saw a space craft hover over my neighbors house ,then zoom out into space until i couldn't see it anymore...i go by what i have seen for sure and science...
i think the original god was energy(with evolution) and our god was alien form


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## vowell462 (Aug 15, 2012)

Dont consider myself Atheist but more agnostic. History had alot to do with my decision on researching and asking. Once people start believing, it makes them quit thinking. Dont have the answers, dont claim to. But if you really look at the bible and study it, I dont know how you can take it as the word of god. And I dang sure will never understand the "personal relationship with god". Nobody has that.


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## coonkilla (Aug 15, 2012)

So is it that you have no faith at all or just the that there is no god


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 15, 2012)

Vowell: I have a relationship with God. If you pray, then I see that as starting a relationship. Its like talking to someone,  you can start a friendship by talking to them, and continue it by continuing talking to them. I think that praying is the same. Accepting God starts the relationship and prayer, reading God's Word and worshiping God continues the relationship..that's how I see it  anyway.


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> Once people start believing, it makes them quit thinking.



No, man.  You can do both.  

I understand where most of you guys are coming from on the questions, and getting frustrated with the lack of answers, and more often, the cleche responses.  I tried to get beyond faith.  But that never felt "true."


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## coonkilla (Aug 15, 2012)

Hummdaddy tell me you are joking about the space crafts,being why you don't believe in god


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## coonkilla (Aug 15, 2012)

Atlas, what part of your believes did you not fi d true or could not explain


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

If my understanding is correct it's a giant leap from being a simple unbeliever into be someone who takes identity as an atheist.
Am I correct/incorrect?


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## bigreddwon (Aug 15, 2012)

I was a Gnostic Atheist long before I knew there was a name for it. I was raised Christian, indoctrinated from birth. It wasn't until I was about 9 I realized without a doubt there was no god.

 By 13 I couldn't bear to go to church anymore, I felt like I was lying to myself and all those around me by being there. I felt foolish and creepy when 'true believers' would share story's of talking with god or being bathed in his warmth and all the other cliché crap they would spew. I saw frauds looking for acceptance and participants in their fraud, so they weren't alone in it. I couldn't take part. 

I KNOW for a fact there are NO unicorns, by the SAME token I KNOW there is no god or devil OR ghosts or any other fairy-tales. I have NO room for that in my life, reality takes up too much real estate.


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## atlashunter (Aug 16, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> Atlas, what part of your believes did you not fi d true or could not explain



The answer to that question could fill a book so I can't give a thorough answer here but I can give you a smattering of the different beliefs that changed.

1. That the 6 day creation story of Genesis is true.

2. That the biblical account of the flood is true. I remember having serious doubts about this going back to my early teen years.

3. That the bible is the inerrant word of God. If the above wasn't true then what else might not be true? It got me on a path of looking for other historical, scientific, and internal contradictions in the bible. They went from seemingly almost non-existent to every where you look as I learned more.

4. That God is the source of morality. I think this coincided with a change in political views when I learned more about natural rights philosophy. Initially I questioned the view that our laws were based on biblical morality because there are many OT laws which are not codified in modern law and which even Christians would not want made into law. So on what basis do we pick and choose? There must be some other basis for determining what is and is not permissible in society other than what the bible says. That led me to natural rights and libertarian philosophy. It was no longer the case that the basis for laws against murder had to have their moral grounding in the bible or some other religious code. There is a secular basis too. Then I started thinking, well if this isn't is God really even the source of morality? Is murder only immoral because he says so? What if he said murder is moral? Would that make it so? If not, then what is and isn't moral stands independent of what God says and we can make assessments of the morality of the bible. Well... once you are at that point that opens a pandoras box. Now you are looking at the bible with a critical eye and you start seeing a great many things that God said and did which were immoral. It wasn't an easy thing to do that initially because I was still a believer but these were thoughts I had to push to the back of my mind.

5. Prayer doesn't work. Pretty self explanatory. Sometimes you get what you pray for and sometimes you don't. Usually when you get what you pray for it is something that you made happen and as such it would have happened without the prayer. I think deep down a lot of Christians know this but dare not admit it even to themselves. There are myriad excuses for why prayers may not be answered. The bottom line here is I asked myself, how can I ascertain whether prayer is really doing anything or not. What evidence should we expect to see if prayer works? What should we expect to see if it doesn't? Eventually I admitted what I already knew and studies have confirmed, prayer doesn't change outcomes.

6. "Everything happens for a reason." When I was 23 years old my family experienced a tragic loss. My cousin who was just a few months apart from me in age was killed in an auto accident along with one of her identical twin daughters aged 7 and the mother of an infant who was also with her. The infant and other twin survived. Nobody said it to me but at the time I knew this was one of those situations where people frequently rationalize what happened. They need some sort of explanation. So they will say God called the young person home (and for some inexplicable reason left a child parentless in the process), or they are in a better place now, or "everything happens for a reason". Personally I find these self serving and offensive. What possible reason would justify a young life being cut short like that? No, I wouldn't make or accept these feel good rationalizations. The truth was, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and bad things sometimes happen to good people. That is just the way this world is. I still believed in God but I neither blamed him for the bad and was increasingly starting to credit him less for the good. It wasn't long after this that 9/11 happened. It just further cemented my view that this looks exactly like a world where no one is in control. Where just about anything that can go wrong will at some point for some one and the same for the good. No reason, no design, other than what we each individually make happen.

7. The moral underpinnings of Christian theology. They just didn't add up the more I thought about it. Punish all of humanity because the first two people messed up and disobeyed? Is that moral to visit the sins of the father on all subsequent generations? How to pay for sin... with blood sacrifice. Is that moral? Of course in the beginning it was the blood of animals but still, what kind of being would set the ground rules that require this? And then of course the ultimate sacrifice in the form of a human. And not just any human but one that was completely flawless and innocent. Murder of the innocent to redeem the guilty? Redemption based not on works but on belief and not just any belief but a belief lacking supporting evidence and requiring faith? And what of those who aren't redeemed? Eternal torture? This is a moral punishment for finite transgressions in a finite life? When you step back and evaluate the fundamental ground rules that God seems to be following here it just doesn't add up and it certainly wouldn't be considered moral by any standard that we think of as moral.

8. Personal experience. This is the last refuge when all the other underpinnings of faith are gone. Someone can knock down all those other positions but they can't knock down what you've experienced. No one can refute that. I had experiences that for many years had me convinced there was something to it. The feelings I had, some of the things I saw. Looking back on it now it really isn't that convincing at all. For instance when I was about 15 and spending the summer with my father I attended a week long youth camp at the bible college he was attending. This was a spirit filled environment and I don't know if you are familiar with these sort of things but they have services each night which start out very mellow and by the end of the week people are just fired up like crazy for God. It's hard to explain but the enthusiasm builds with each service like a fire building up to a roaring blaze. I was in it 100% at this time and was praying like crazy every day. I would literally pray for hours on end each day. I wanted a manifestation of God's power to flow through me. Well one evening at alter call everyone is down at the front praying, crying, etc. I would go and pray for others. There was this girl crouched down on the floor praying and I put my hand on her back and was praying for her. Without any warning she just fell over to the side. People would be "slain in the spirit" when the preachers would lay hands on them on a regular basis. I wasn't sure what to think of this as it never happened to me. I guess I thought it was real but I didn't really understand it from either the point of view of the person it happened to or the preacher. Well when this happened it shocked me. I didn't push her. I didn't feel anything. It just happened. Had never happened to me before. In fact I had never seen it happen before in this way. So I was convinced that because I had been praying so much God moved through me. A later point that same night I thought I prayed for a girl that was possessed (also in answer to my prayers) but in hindsight I think I was just seeing what I was looking for. Our minds can play tricks on us sometimes and we can deceive ourselves unintentionally.

The point I am trying to get to is that people of all sorts of beliefs have similar personal experiences. How do you explain that? Does it prove that all of their beliefs are true? Or should these experiences be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism? I think the latter. You've got to have more than personal experience to go on and more importantly, if your beliefs really are true to reality you _will_ have more to go on. Over time I came to realize I didn't have more. That the beliefs I held were not justified. So I had to decide what was more important to me, to search as best I could for the truth of this reality we find ourselves in and conform my mind and beliefs where they conflicted with what I found. Or reject what I found to protect those beliefs. The latter was never really an option in my mind.

Those are the main ones that come to mind. I know there are others such as overcoming the fear of eternal torment if I was wrong and more that I'm not thinking of at the moment.


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## vowell462 (Aug 16, 2012)

ross the deer slayer said:


> Vowell: I have a relationship with God. If you pray, then I see that as starting a relationship. Its like talking to someone,  you can start a friendship by talking to them, and continue it by continuing talking to them. I think that praying is the same. Accepting God starts the relationship and prayer, reading God's Word and worshiping God continues the relationship..that's how I see it  anyway.



I understand and appreciate your answer and respect it. But understand that this is your belief, and thats all. I can say without a doubt that you dont have a relationship. Just because you speak to an unidentified being, doesnt mean you have a relationship. He doesnt talk back, doesnt eat dinner with you on sunday nights, but just exists in your mind and shows no notion of actually being there unless you use a classic cliche. You do not possess any more powers than the next guy. Thats how I see it.


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## vowell462 (Aug 16, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> So is it that you have no faith at all or just the that there is no god



I take a very simple approach. We dont know. We wont know in our lifetime. Its pretty simple. Once I realized that, life got so much easier.


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## bigreddwon (Aug 16, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> I understand and appreciate your answer and respect it. But understand that this is your belief, and thats all. I can say without a doubt that you dont have a relationship. Just because you speak to an unidentified being, doesnt mean you have a relationship. He doesnt talk back, doesnt eat dinner with you on sunday nights, but just exists in your mind and shows no notion of actually being there unless you use a classic cliche. You do not possess any more powers than the next guy. Thats how I see it.



x2

Men create and feed delusions to comfort themselves IMO.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 16, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> Hummdaddy tell me you are joking about the space crafts,being why you don't believe in god



i don't believe in your invisible god in some heaven in the sky that intermingles in every christians(mind) life like you mean...


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## groundhawg (Aug 16, 2012)

bigreddwon said:


> I KNOW for a fact there are NO unicorns, by the SAME token I KNOW there is no god or devil OR ghosts or any other fairy-tales. I have NO room for that in my life, reality takes up too much real estate.



How do you know that there are no unicorns?

Because you have never seen one, or someone told you that?  Not trying to "sharpshoot" you but how do you know there are no ghosts or .....?  If it is because you never seen one then do you believe in atoms, every seen one?  So you were told there were no unicorns and had FAITH to believe or do you really have knowledge that there is no devil or ghost or swamp apes or unicorns?


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## bigreddwon (Aug 16, 2012)

groundhawg said:


> How do you know that there are no unicorns?
> 
> Because you have never seen one, or someone told you that?  Not trying to "sharpshoot" you but how do you know there are no ghosts or .....?  If it is because you never seen one then do you believe in atoms, every seen one?  So you were told there were no unicorns and had FAITH to believe or do you really have knowledge that there is no devil or ghost or swamp apes or unicorns?



Look, if your argument starts of with 'how do I know there are no unicorns' you've lost the argument in the first sentence. Replace unicorns with Ogres, Trolls or elves that bake cookies in trees.. It matters not. Be serious, it wont hurt, I promise.

I _know they don't exist_. They _don't_. You can ask the _same _question the same way about something_ YOU know_ _NOT_ to exist and it _wont create_ any doubt in your mind that it _*might*_, would it? 

Is there anything you can think of that has been widely written about or had movies made about it that you KNOW does not really exist? Just use that as a frame of reference and you'll know exactly how I feel about God.


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## Mountainbuck (Aug 16, 2012)

66 books composed to create our holy bible, from writters who personal experienced what they wrote or was told by god what to write.. the gospel of jesus christ has never faded over thousands of years.. over 500 reported witnesses to have see jesus after he was killed on a cross... some even to have shared a meal with him. there will always be non believers, As surely as i live, says the lord every knee will bow before me every tounge will confess to God. I hope that everyone on this forum gives his life to christ and allows christ to change his life..


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2012)

Mountainbuck said:


> 66 books composed to create our holy bible, from writters who personal experienced what they wrote or was told by god what to write.. the gospel of jesus christ has never faded over thousands of years.. over 500 reported witnesses to have see jesus after he was killed on a cross... some even to have shared a meal with him. there will always be non believers, As surely as i live, says the lord every knee will bow before me every tounge will confess to God. I hope that everyone on this forum gives his life to christ and allows christ to change his life..





Amen.


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## bigreddwon (Aug 16, 2012)

Mountainbuck said:


> 66 books composed to create our holy bible, from writters who personal experienced what they wrote or was told by god what to write.. the gospel of jesus christ has never faded over thousands of years.. over 500 reported witnesses to have see jesus after he was killed on a cross... some even to have shared a meal with him. there will always be non believers, As surely as i live, says the lord every knee will bow before me every tounge will confess to God. I hope that everyone on this forum gives his life to christ and allows christ to change his life..



There were HUNDREDS of books to the bible.. A man, a SINGLE mortal MAN decided what books to get rid of and which ones to keep. What books you could lead your life by and what books YOU were forbidden to read. YOUR bible is an incomplete pamphlet. Compared to its original form. NO GOD told him what to get rid of, NO GOD decided what YOU got to read, learn and live by. A man did.


500 people huh? SO what?! Let 500 people today, see a traffic accident. Let them each tell it how they saw it . Let the people they tell, describe it to 5 other people each. Let that go on for a few hundred folks down the line. Would you bet $20 bucks that the version of the accident one of the folks 60 tiers down and 300 years later described would be accurate, factual? No way, NO HOW! 

By the time they told the version of the accident the Honda would have hovered over the motorcycle and shot lightning bolts out of it legs and used its giant robot arms to squeeze a telephone pole into a pretzel and.... Get my point? It would not, it COULD not be described by word of mouth, accurately. Not by humans, ever. 



> Forbidden, Not Lost
> Constantine began what was to become a century’s long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.
> What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as “Protestant", is unrecognizable from either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity, which was begun by Constantine.
> There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain, but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are “lost”; to the Church they are “forbidden”. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.


http://www.thelostbooks.com/intro.htm

Amen...


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## hobbs27 (Aug 16, 2012)

bigreddwon said:


> There were HUNDREDS of books to the bible.. A man, a SINGLE mortal MAN decided what books to get rid of and which ones to keep....



That's news to me. Which one single man decided what books of the word of God should be kept and which were not?


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## bigreddwon (Aug 16, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> That's news to me. Which one single man decided what books of the word of God should be kept and which were not?





> Constantine began what was to become a century’s long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible.


 This guy. He started it, he guided the carving up of your book. The early church then followed up in his footsteps. Men. Under the order of a single man.


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## groundhawg (Aug 16, 2012)

bigreddwon said:


> Look, if your argument starts of with 'how do I know there are no unicorns' you've lost the argument in the first sentence. Replace unicorns with Ogres, Trolls or elves that bake cookies in trees.. It matters not. Be serious, it wont hurt, I promise.
> 
> I _know they don't exist_. They _don't_. You can ask the _same _question the same way about something_ YOU know_ _NOT_ to exist and it _wont create_ any doubt in your mind that it _*might*_, would it?
> 
> Is there anything you can think of that has been widely written about or had movies made about it that you KNOW does not really exist? Just use that as a frame of reference and you'll know exactly how I feel about God.



So you are not or can not or will not answer the question(s) other than to say you do not believe in something so it can not be real.  Then you have FAITH in what you believe ....hum.  I was just asking how you can know for sure, just because you never have seen something or do not believe in something does not mean it can not be.  Show me the beef/facts, where is your proof there are no unicorns or trolls or God?


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## bigreddwon (Aug 16, 2012)

groundhawg said:


> So you are not or can not or will not answer the question(s) other than to say you do not believe in something so it can not be real.  Then you have FAITH in what you believe ....hum.  I was just asking how you can know for sure, just because you never have seen something or do not believe in something does not mean it can not be.  Show me the beef/facts, where is your proof there are no unicorns or trolls or God?



You ask a stupid question. I don't have a stupid answer for it, sorry.


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

Honestly guys, both the atheists and the Christians, do we have any clue what type of odd critters are running around in other galaxies?

Do any of us think this is the only planet with life?  I don't.  But that is pure opinion.


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## atlashunter (Aug 17, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Honestly guys, both the atheists and the Christians, do we have any clue what type of odd critters are running around in other galaxies?
> 
> Do any of us think this is the only planet with life?  I don't.  But that is pure opinion.



I agree. If you go beyond that opinion and claim to have a personal relationship with invisible aliens from another galaxy we will expect some very convincing evidence to be forthcoming. Absent that you'll belong in the same category of folks that make all manner of unsubstantiated claims.


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> I agree. If you go beyond that opinion and claim to have a personal relationship with invisible aliens from another galaxy we will expect some very convincing evidence to be forthcoming. Absent that you'll belong in the same category of folks that make all manner of unsubstantiated claims.



Let's consider it this way......I am pretty certain other planets have life.  I know this because the planet I am on has life.  So I assume whatever caused life here would also cause life elsewhere.

With or without a God I would believe that.

If I take it one step further and tell you what that life, or that cause looks like, then I would be in the same category as everybody else.  Until then, I am just like you, drawing logical conclusions from the evidence given.


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## atlashunter (Aug 17, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Let's consider it this way......I am pretty certain other planets have life.  I know this because the planet I am on has life.  So I assume whatever caused life here would also cause life elsewhere.
> 
> With or without a God I would believe that.
> 
> If I take it one step further and tell you what that life, or that cause looks like, then I would be in the same category as everybody else.  Until then, I am just like you, drawing logical conclusions from the evidence given.



Uh yeah not so much. Life is in the realm of things known to exist, as are stars, planets and all the various physical conditions necessary for life. Deities are not in that category. They are in the leprechaun category of things not known to exist. It's no more reasonable to say there is a god than it is to say there is any other mythical creature one might conjure up.

But even leaving that aside it would only get you to the deist position of some god, not the theist position of a particular god. Are you a deist?


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Uh yeah not so much. Life is in the realm of things known to exist, as are stars, planets and all the various physical conditions necessary for life. Deities are not in that category. They are in the leprechaun category of things not known to exist. It's no more reasonable to say there is a god than it is to say there is any other mythical creature one might conjure up.
> 
> But even leaving that aside it would only get you to the deist position of some god, not the theist position of a particular god. Are you a deist?



No, I'm a theist.  But I believe the gospels.  So, I would claim evidence that you reject.

And, existence is not known to be self creative.


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## bullethead (Aug 17, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Uh yeah not so much. Life is in the realm of things known to exist, *as are stars*, planets and all the various physical conditions necessary for life. Deities are not in that category. They are in the leprechaun category of things not known to exist. It's no more reasonable to say there is a god than it is to say there is any other mythical creature one might conjure up.
> 
> But even leaving that aside it would only get you to the deist position of some god, not the theist position of a particular god. Are you a deist?



http://news.yahoo.com/phoenix-cluster-sets-record-pace-forming-stars-171900141.html?_esi=1

We can actually witness stars forming....or at the least watch now stars that formed 5.7 Billion years ago as if they are forming now because it takes that long to get to us......
We are either watching God perform or this is yet another thing the Bible has gotten wrong.


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## fish hawk (Aug 17, 2012)

bullethead said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/phoenix-cluster-sets-record-pace-forming-stars-171900141.html?_esi=1
> 
> We can actually witness stars forming....or at the least watch now stars that formed 5.7 Billion years ago as if they are forming now because it takes that long to get to us......
> We are either watching God perform or this is yet another thing the Bible has gotten wrong.


there you are.....I been looking for you!!!


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## Six million dollar ham (Aug 17, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> I was just wondering what made some here an atheist. Was it a bad time at a church,or just got out of bed and said I what to be an atheist



I was born one.


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## vowell462 (Aug 18, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I was born one.



Heeeeheeee! Atheist indoctrination!


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 18, 2012)

The word "relationship" has come up several times. Most I have ever known considered that they have a relationship because I read my bible, I pray, I do this, I do that. Sound 1 sided?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> The word "relationship" has come up several times. Most I have ever known considered that they have a relationship because I read my bible, I pray, I do this, I do that. Sound 1 sided?



or at least a 50%-50% chance it will happen anyway


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## Six million dollar ham (Aug 19, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> The word "relationship" has come up several times. Most I have ever known considered that they have a relationship because I read my bible, I pray, I do this, I do that. Sound 1 sided?



There's not a lot of "he and I" or "we" in that there.


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## Six million dollar ham (Aug 19, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> Heeeeheeee! Atheist indoctrination!



Correction...we're all born atheists.


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## mtnwoman (Aug 19, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Correction...we're all born atheists.



Possibly....but some of us evolved into god seekers. We finally realize that we did not create ourselves, nor did we come from a fish, frog, or ape.  If we did, why didn't some apes, frogs, fishes or whatever, evolve into humans? Humans reproduce humans, not frogs, toads, fish or apes.
Frogs reproduce frogs, apes produce apes, etc. Did evolution stop when man came on the scene?


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## bullethead (Aug 19, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Possibly....but some of us evolved into god seekers. We finally realize that we did not create ourselves, nor did we come from a fish, frog, or ape.  If we did, why didn't some apes, frogs, fishes or whatever, evolve into humans? Humans reproduce humans, not frogs, toads, fish or apes.
> Frogs reproduce frogs, apes produce apes, etc. Did evolution stop when man came on the scene?



Instead of asking on here and getting answers that you refuse to believe do yourself a favor and spend an hour on researching those questions that you asked above.


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## ambush80 (Aug 19, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Possibly....but some of us evolved into god seekers. We finally realize that we did not create ourselves, nor did we come from a fish, frog, or ape.  If we did, why didn't some apes, frogs, fishes or whatever, evolve into humans? Humans reproduce humans, not frogs, toads, fish or apes.
> Frogs reproduce frogs, apes produce apes, etc. Did evolution stop when man came on the scene?



You don't understand evolutionary theory.


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## atlashunter (Aug 19, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Instead of asking on here and getting answers that you refuse to believe do yourself a favor and spend an hour on researching those questions that you asked above.






ambush80 said:


> You don't understand evolutionary theory.



Nor does she want to understand.


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## atlashunter (Aug 19, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> The word "relationship" has come up several times. Most I have ever known considered that they have a relationship because I read my bible, I pray, I do this, I do that. Sound 1 sided?



Sounds like a child and their relationship with their invisible friend.


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## The Original Rooster (Aug 19, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Nor does she want to understand.



Maybe not! Obvious evolution has not stopped me from having faith. I always felt that God knew change was a neccesary thing.

Also atlashunter, thank you for posting your "basis of faith" for lack of better words. It helps me to understand where you're coming from.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Instead of asking on here and getting answers that you refuse to believe do yourself a favor and spend an hour on researching those questions that you asked above.



...on the internet, because it is all totally true!!!


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/phoenix-cluster-sets-record-pace-forming-stars-171900141.html?_esi=1
> 
> We can actually witness stars forming....or at the least watch now stars that formed 5.7 Billion years ago as if they are forming now because it takes that long to get to us......
> We are either watching God perform or this is yet another thing the Bible has gotten wrong.



You say 5.7 billion years ago, and I instantly know, that you do not have a clue.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 23, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> You say 5.7 billion years ago, and I instantly know, that you do not have a clue.



Tell it to the author of the article. 

Oh, and instead of just keeping it to yourself maybe you could add to your credibility and share with us why you instantly know the AUTHOR (read: NASA)of the article has no clue because they included the 5.7 billion years.

Unless of course you are referring to me because I forgot to say "light" years.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 23, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> ...on the internet, because it is all totally true!!!



Interestingly, the internet is ONLY way I have access to your "truths"........so............what are you telling us?


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Interestingly, the internet is ONLY way I have access to your "truths"........so............what are you telling us?



Leave the house.


----------



## Asath (Aug 24, 2012)

“I was just wondering what made some here an atheist.”

Believers.

You see, by an accident of birth, I was born in America.  I could have been born into any other culture, I suppose, since the vast majority of our fellow humans are.  But, having been born here, I was raised as a proper little Christian.  Brainwashed as a child, in other words.

But the clever, manipulative, self-interested bullies that tried to raise me to be a soldier of their opinions made a mistake – they taught me to read.  

Which I did.  ALOT.

Then I grew and began to travel.  Quickly it became a problem.  The ‘Belief’ I was forced to accept and kneel in front of as a four-year-old turned out to actually be only ONE of DOZENS of competing ideas.  Not only had I already READ that this was the case, I stubbornly had to go out into the world and find out for myself.  And I did.

They say that the head-strong can only learn by bitter experience, and I stand as a classic case of the truth of that particular maxim.

If only a single thing is true, which would be to oversimplify, it is this – EVERYONE can’t be right.  There CANNOT be THREE major religions, all of which trace themselves back to the presumed GOD of Abraham, and ALL of which disagree to the point of centuries of bloody violence against each other.  This is logically impossible.

Travel more remotely, and one finds dozens, and eventually hundreds of other ‘Belief Systems’ that do NOT trace back to this God of Abraham – each of THEM insult the others, and are perpetually at war as well.

Additionally, it turns out that all of the myths and legends and stories (Scripture) of each and every one of them contain so many overlaps and recombinations of the same thoughts that it becomes laughable.  ‘Belief,’ it quickly becomes apparent, was developed to mask the ancient’s ignorance of the natural world, and is in all cases an ‘explanation’ for what was once not known.  But now just about all of what they sought to ‘explain’ IS known.

The ‘High Priests’ of any and all of the various systems, which I will now no longer describe as ‘belief’ systems but merely as ‘governing’ mechanisms, would laugh themselves silly at the thought that any real GOD might exist.  Their job was to keep the irrational fears of the ignorant masses from infecting and preventing progress.  Mostly.  Notable exceptions – the Islamic faith encouraged learning, while the Christian faith set out to eliminate it.  It has been a rocky history in that regard.

The task of religious ‘belief’ systems was to scare folks silly, and cause them to behave themselves at a time when the threat of ‘government’ and the point of a sword wasn’t quite enough motivation.  They had swords too, and there were more of them than there were presumed ‘leaders.’  Nobody dared refute GOD, so the religious control gained primacy, trumping and even controlling entire governments. 

I’ve spent endless hours over this long lifetime reading the words of, and in personal discussions with, dozens of theologians representing each and perhaps every of this world’s major religious belief systems, and they all have one thing in common, in candid discussion – Not a Single One of Them Believes that there is actually a GOD.  What they believe is that humanity NEEDS there to be a GOD, as a governing agent independent of irrational human governance, and that it is the job of the religious leaders to serve as that governing agent.

In other words, even the religious leaders are dangerous egomaniacs.

An all-powerful, all-knowing, CREATOR of this mess, as the mess exists across the landscape of over six and a half billion people, could not exist, else this reality that you see daily would not be.  It could not be.  A GOD who cannot make itself clear is hardly godlike.  A GOD who allows this sort of disagreement and obvious factional warfare, conducted ONLY over the topic of itself, is either non-existent or disinterested, which amounts to the same thing.  A GOD which has never been shown to have PHYSICALLY INTERVENED, and has simply watched is not to be worshipped but rather to be shamed.  A GOD who lacks the ability or interest to properly guide and direct ALL of HIS CREATION is no GOD at all.  You then have only the one you created for yourself.

At some point, you need to look at the folks who keep trying to stuff THEIR GOD down your throat, by little more than threats, empty promises, and physical violence, and see them for what they are.  NOT GOD’S representatives.  A GOD would need spokespeople?  Seriously? And tell a small part of His CREATION to go and kill the rest of it?  Honest?    

I found myself doubting that GOD needed a new cathedral, gilded in gold and precious gems, and that was the end of that.  I gave the idea of GOD more than a fair chance to redeem itself, and devoted far more thought and education to the matter than most, and the idea has come up short by every measure. 

I am an atheist because of the Believers.  Y’all are ridiculous, though endlessly entertaining.


----------



## Four (Aug 24, 2012)

I wasn't indoctrinated into a religion by my family when i was young. When i was quite young i used to refer to myself as christian as a survival mechanism... because its awkward and uncomfortable and potentially dangerous to be that different as a child. Eventually i was a pascal's wager type agnostic.. then eventually i realized how silly i was being and started referring to myself as an atheist.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 24, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Leave the house.



Again I think your confused about the real meaning of what I meant.

In much simpler terms:
You replied
"...on the internet, because it is all totally true!!! "
Leading one to believe that much of what is found on the internet is false.

I replied:
"Interestingly, the internet is ONLY way I have access to your "truths"........so............what are you telling us? "
In hopes that you would understand that YOUR replies on here are accessible to forum members only by the internet so according to your own statement, they are false too.

I will test your recommendation by leaving the house for work today though and I'll be sure to report if your suggestion works or if you just just tried to make a quick come back but failed because you didn't understand what you were talking about.


----------



## JFS (Aug 24, 2012)

We are all atheists, some of us just believe in one fewer than the others.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Again I think your confused about the real meaning of what I meant.
> 
> In much simpler terms:
> You replied
> ...



OK, admittedly, "Leave the house" was vague and cryptic.
I was just trying to say that "real world experience" is much more truthful than the internet.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Tell it to the author of the article.
> 
> Oh, and instead of just keeping it to yourself maybe you could add to your credibility and share with us why you instantly know the AUTHOR (read: NASA)of the article has no clue because they included the 5.7 billion years.
> 
> Unless of course you are referring to me because I forgot to say "light" years.



This is interesting. I would not imagine for a moment that you would ever think of me as having credibility. I do not aspire to be credible in your mind. I just don't care.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 27, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> This is interesting. I would not imagine for a moment that you would ever think of me as having credibility. I do not aspire to be credible in your mind. I just don't care.



The real interesting part is the one you totally skipped. Tell us how you instantly know why I(actually NASA) doesn't have a clue.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 27, 2012)

bullethead said:


> The real interesting part is the one you totally skipped. Tell us how you instantly know why I(actually NASA) doesn't have a clue.



I'll go back to that post and quote it with an answer.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 27, 2012)

bullethead said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/phoenix-cluster-sets-record-pace-forming-stars-171900141.html?_esi=1
> 
> We can actually witness stars forming....or at the least watch now stars that formed 5.7 Billion years ago as if they are forming now because it takes that long to get to us......
> We are either watching God perform or this is yet another thing the Bible has gotten wrong.



Upon request

5.7 billion years (5,700,000,000) equates to 79,166,666 or 79.2 million lifetimes (at an average lifespan of 72 years). 

An above average civilization on this planet lasts ~ 200 years (yes, we are due).

If you, or NASA claims to have an innate understanding of numbers related to time of this magnitude, then you/and they are full of baloney.

Here is a graphic of 1 billion dollars in hundred dollar bills. So, in your mind, multiply the graphic by 570 times, and you might get an idea of what 5.7 billion years is. Time, which is something we measure by our own solar system’s standards (when the universe is so vast) and claim to understand, but can’t really put our finger on without some serious assumptions, is mysterious but for our own microscopic tools for measuring it.

I hope this gives you perspective on how much speculation is put into a statement about 5.7 billion years ago.

*Remeber to multiply the graphic by 570 times.*


----------



## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 28, 2012)

Asath said:


> “I was just wondering what made some here an atheist.”
> 
> Believers.
> 
> ...



Good answer.


----------



## TheBishop (Aug 28, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Upon request
> 
> 5.7 billion years (5,700,000,000) equates to 79,166,666 or 79.2 million lifetimes (at an average lifespan of 72 years).
> 
> ...



I'm no mathematical genius (apparently neither are you) but you would only have to mutlipy it by 5.7. 

Just for you ted:  5.7 billion is = 5 billion 700 million= 5,700,000,000. So if you have a stack of 1 billion= 1.0 billion all you would have to do is multiply by 5.7 to get 5.7 billion. Mutipling by 570 would give you 570 billion wich is 570,000,000,000 or 570.0 billion.

I hope as a scientist you are not working on something that is overly difficult.


----------



## JFS (Aug 28, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> I hope this gives you perspective on how much speculation is put into a statement about 5.7 billion years ago.



LOL, as opposed to statements about eternity?


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 28, 2012)

JFS said:


> LOL, as opposed to statements about eternity?



Eternity with wings and enormous bass and never ending chocolate Wonderfalls....


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 28, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Eternity with wings and enormous bass and never ending chocolate Wonderfalls....





The unicorn says your out of line.....the wonderfalls are not chocolate.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 28, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> I'm no mathematical genius (apparently neither are you) but you would only have to mutlipy it by 5.7.
> 
> Just for you ted:  5.7 billion is = 5 billion 700 million= 5,700,000,000. So if you have a stack of 1 billion= 1.0 billion all you would have to do is multiply by 5.7 to get 5.7 billion. Mutipling by 570 would give you 570 billion wich is 570,000,000,000 or 570.0 billion.
> 
> I hope as a scientist you are not working on something that is overly difficult.



Remember what I said about the leash..........


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 28, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> The unicorn says your out of line.....the wonderfalls are not chocolate.



Pfffft, everybody knows the wonderfalls are strawberry because they match the elephants skin.


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 28, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Pfffft, everybody knows the wonderfalls are strawberry because they match the elephants skin.



Exactly


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 28, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> I'm no mathematical genius (apparently neither are you) but you would only have to mutlipy it by 5.7.
> 
> Just for you ted:  5.7 billion is = 5 billion 700 million= 5,700,000,000. So if you have a stack of 1 billion= 1.0 billion all you would have to do is multiply by 5.7 to get 5.7 billion. Mutipling by 570 would give you 570 billion wich is 570,000,000,000 or 570.0 billion.
> 
> I hope as a scientist you are not working on something that is overly difficult.



They are hundred dollar bills Bishop. I was not equating to centuries, rather to years.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 28, 2012)

JFS said:


> LOL, as opposed to statements about eternity?



Absolutely valid.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 28, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Remember what I said about the leash..........



See post #67 to understand why neither you nor Bishop know which end of the leash you are holding.

And BTW, that is a childish jab that I do not appreciate at all. We've gone back and forth a bit, but we have always gone back to being civil. Hope we can get back there.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 29, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> See post #67 to understand why neither you nor Bishop know which end of the leash you are holding.
> 
> And BTW, that is a childish jab that I do not appreciate at all. We've gone back and forth a bit, but we have always gone back to being civil. Hope we can get back there.



Says Ted, AFTER he tells me I do not have a clue and I'm full of baloney. 



> So, in your mind, multiply the graphic by 570 times, and you might get an idea of what 5.7 billion years is.


That would make 570 graphics. 
If the number ONE Billion is represented in each graphic it equals FIVE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY BILLION when multiplied by 570. If each bill represents 100 years your math is off and if each bill represents 1 year your math is off and if you read the article you would see they said 5.7 Billion LIGHT YEARS so your math is WAY off.



> The Phoenix cluster is located about 5.7 billion light years from Earth.


----------



## TheBishop (Aug 29, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> They are hundred dollar bills Bishop. I was not equating to centuries, rather to years.



Instead of making yourself look silly and losing further credibilty a simple "I made a mistake" would suffice.


----------



## atlashunter (Aug 29, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> Instead of making yourself look silly and losing further credibilty a simple "I made a mistake" would suffice.



Yep he just dug the hole deeper by a factor of 100 without realizing it.


----------



## atlashunter (Aug 29, 2012)

Ted also just confirmed my original point. NASA can calculate these vast number based off of the observations and data gathered. That doesn't mean we can really wrap our minds around such an unimaginably long span of time. Yet the theist can say "forever" as if they can comprehend it well enough to think such a thing would be desirable.


----------



## panfried0419 (Aug 29, 2012)

Evolutionary creationism. Amen and God bless.


----------



## atlashunter (Aug 29, 2012)

panfried0419 said:


> Evolutionary creationism. Amen and God bless.



It's what Genesis really _meant_ to say.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Yep he just dug the hole deeper by a factor of 100 without realizing it.



You guys are thick. THEY ARE HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS, EACH ONE IN THE STACK REPRESENTS 100 YEARS.

My math is sound, you understanding is not.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> Instead of making yourself look silly and losing further credibilty a simple "I made a mistake" would suffice.



Bishop - I don't seek credibility with you. My math is not in error. Take your own advise and admit your mistake.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Says Ted, AFTER he tells me I do not have a clue and I'm full of baloney.



That is absolutely valid BH. I do not retract my statement that you are full of baloney, or that you acted in a childish manner.

I would add that I too acted in a childish manner, and I apologize for that. Sincerely, it is not how I wish to act.

Not perfect, Ted


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Ted also just confirmed my original point. NASA can calculate these vast number based off of the observations and data gathered. That doesn't mean we can really wrap our minds around such an unimaginably long span of time. Yet the theist can say "forever" as if they can comprehend it well enough to think such a thing would be desirable.



It is easy to make huge calculations when you control all the givens. Such is the language of math. I had a data set with over a million records the other day.

Your point about "forever" is well made and noted. Admittedly, I can't really grasp it.


----------



## TheBishop (Sep 1, 2012)

Ted the hole your in just keeps getting deeper and deeper.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> Ted the hole your in just keeps getting deeper and deeper.



Please read post # 58 out loud to yourself. Read it several times if need be. I included a picture to make it easier.

If you do not understand it, than do not bother to reply, because it is simple, and if you don't understand it, I cannot be of any assistance.


----------



## TheBishop (Sep 2, 2012)

And deeper...


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 3, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> And deeper...



I am sorry that you cannot understand a simple story problem, with a picture. Try reading it again, slower.


----------



## TheBishop (Sep 3, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> I am sorry that you cannot understand a simple story problem, with a picture. Try reading it again, slower.



I did several times.  Your graphic is simple, maybe your explanation is not.  I'm not the only one that sees your error even if you do not.  Your graphic is stacks of hundred dollar bills that equal 1 billion dollars. So if you multiply it by 570 (like you said) you get 570 billion.  I think what you might have wanted is a graphic of 1 dollar bills that equaled 10 million dollars then your math would be correct.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 7, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> I did several times.  Your graphic is simple, maybe your explanation is not.  I'm not the only one that sees your error even if you do not.  Your graphic is stacks of hundred dollar bills that equal 1 billion dollars. So if you multiply it by 570 (like you said) you get 570 billion.  I think what you might have wanted is a graphic of 1 dollar bills that equaled 10 million dollars then your math would be correct.



Yes, In hundred dollar bills. If you make the simple conversion from 100 dollar bills to one dollar bills, you see the absurdity of anyone's claim that they understand 5.7 billion years, or simple math story problems to make a point.

The fact that you don't understand this post screams that you don't understand the possibility of 5.7 billion years. Please continue explaining why you don't understand.

The graphic consists of hundred dollar bills.


----------



## vowell462 (Sep 7, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Yes, In hundred dollar bills. If you make the simple conversion from 100 dollar bills to one dollar bills, you see the absurdity of anyone's claim that they understand 5.7 billion years, or simple math story problems to make a point.
> 
> The fact that you don't understand this post screams that you don't understand the possibility of 5.7 billion years. Please continue explaining why you don't understand.
> 
> The graphic consists of hundred dollar bills.


Ted. I wouldnt dare mess with anyone on a math problem as im one of the most ignorant people on the planet when it comes to math. I took remedial math twice. But this was the first thing I noticed when I read your post. I kinda get your abstract way of trying to explain the 5.7 billion year thing. But you have to remember, this is a forum where everyone is trying to prove everyone wrong. So when you make mistakes like this, it might be best to just admit it instead of finding an excuse for it because from just looking at this, it appears you are digging a hole. Ive seen you say you dont wish for credibilty, and with post like these your wish will definatly come true.


----------



## TheBishop (Sep 7, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Yes, In hundred dollar bills. If you make the simple conversion from 100 dollar bills to one dollar bills, you see the absurdity of anyone's claim that they understand 5.7 billion years, or simple math story problems to make a point.
> 
> The fact that you don't understand this post screams that you don't understand the possibility of 5.7 billion years. Please continue explaining why you don't understand.
> 
> The graphic consists of hundred dollar bills.




 Hundred dollar bills that equal 1 billion dollars.  You said multiply this graphic by 570 and you get 570 billion NOT 5.7 billion! Its not that I dont understand, its you can't do simple math!


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 7, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> Ted. I wouldnt dare mess with anyone on a math problem as im one of the most ignorant people on the planet when it comes to math. I took remedial math twice. But this was the first thing I noticed when I read your post. I kinda get your abstract way of trying to explain the 5.7 billion year thing. But you have to remember, this is a forum where everyone is trying to prove everyone wrong. So when you make mistakes like this, it might be best to just admit it instead of finding an excuse for it because from just looking at this, it appears you are digging a hole. Ive seen you say you dont wish for credibilty, and with post like these your wish will definatly come true.



Thanks BH, I appreciate your honesty, but I can't believe that none of you fellas can understand the math. Oh well, it is no big deal.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 7, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> Hundred dollar bills that equal 1 billion dollars.  You said multiply this graphic by 570 and you get 570 billion NOT 5.7 billion! Its not that I dont understand, its you can't do simple math!



This is what I actually said. "Here is a graphic of 1 billion dollars in hundred dollar bills. So, in your mind, multiply the graphic by 570 times, and you might get an idea of what 5.7 billion years is."

This simple math converts hundred dollar bills to one dollar bills, for the purpose of painting a picture of what 5.7 billion years looks like.

Bishop, please PM me your address so that I may send you a calculator for Christmas. I promise it will have huge buttons, and a very large screen for you to study.


----------



## bullethead (Sep 10, 2012)

coonkilla said:


> I was just wondering what made some here an atheist. Was it a bad time at a church,or just got out of bed and said I what to be an atheist



borrowed from Dan Fouts:  I'm a polyatheist - there are many gods I don't believe in.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 10, 2012)

bullethead said:


> borrowed from Dan Fouts:  I'm a polyatheist - there are many gods I don't believe in.



There are many gods that I do not believe in either BH.

I believe in the one true God.

This is my belief. It is pointless to ask for evidence.


----------



## ambush80 (Sep 11, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> There are many gods that I do not believe in either BH.
> 
> I believe in the one true God.
> 
> This is my belief. It is pointless to ask for evidence.



Why do you keep trying to offer it?


----------



## kpfister (Sep 12, 2012)

Well, as an agnostic I don't really have a dog (or god) in this race.  However, when I saw a picture of a man standing next to 8 pallets of money and a caption reading "and 1 billion dollars...now we're really getting somewhere". I really wouldn't care whether they were ones, tens or hundreds.  I would assume that the picture was showing 1 billion dollars and would therefore multiply by 5.7 to get to 5.7 billion.   

And for what it is worth the speed of light is a constant.


----------



## Asath (Sep 13, 2012)

“This is what I actually said. "Here is a graphic of 1 billion dollars in hundred dollar bills. So, in your mind, multiply the graphic by 570 times, and you might get an idea of what 5.7 billion years is.     This simple math converts hundred dollar bills to one dollar bills, for the purpose of painting a picture of what 5.7 billion years looks like."

This sort of thing is why I still drop by here . . .

1,000,000,000 (1 billion) divided by 100 (the value of each bill in the stack) = 10,000,000 (ten million) individual slips of paper.  That seems simple enough.

10,000,000 (ten million) individual slips of paper X 570 = a number that runs my calculator out of digits on the screen, and looks a lot like 5.7 billion, but actually isn’t, in context, because each of those slips of paper were said to represent 100 slips of paper, not simply one slip of paper.  

The simple math didn’t convert anything into anything else, oddly enough, it merely added a level of complication, where now I have to take the 5.7 billion slips of paper, and value them as they were originally asserted (at 100 value units assigned to each one) and do another calculation.

Confounding my best beliefs, mathematics refused, in doing that further calculation, to convert, automatically, the 100 unit value assigned back into a single unit value.  It came up as 570 billion, each and every time.  Perhaps we were right, back in Junior High, when we boldly told our parents and teachers that this Math stuff was useless.  It is hard, and never gives us the answer we want.

I asked the ghosts of Euler and Pythagoras to help me out with this one, by lighting candles, praying fervently for enlightenment, and repeating over and over in increasingly strident terms that this result HAD to be wrong.  Strangely, they did not answer, despite my belief in them.

Did I mention why I am an atheist?  

Yeah.  Believers.

Scary.

Now, don’t get me wrong – 5.7 billion years is a heck of a long time.  It is about the amount of time it seemed to take between the day you said “I Do,” and the day you lost your house.  For some of us it seemed much longer.  But in the context of the Universe, 5.7 billion years  is hardly enough time to toss together a decent galaxy, let alone a useful planet that can raise up a population of morons who seem to have evolved to the point of pretzel logic and trumpeting intimidation as a substitute for intelligence.

570 billion . . . well . . . yikes.  Given THAT much time the White House will long have been turned into a McDonald’s franchise located in the infield of a NASCAR track . . . with truth, justice, and free Budweiser for all.

A Believer’s nirvana.


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 14, 2012)

Asath said:


> “This is what I actually said. "Here is a graphic of 1 billion dollars in hundred dollar bills. So, in your mind, multiply the graphic by 570 times, and you might get an idea of what 5.7 billion years is.     This simple math converts hundred dollar bills to one dollar bills, for the purpose of painting a picture of what 5.7 billion years looks like."
> 
> This sort of thing is why I still drop by here . . .
> 
> ...



You're not making sense Atlas.

I can't believe ya'll can't do some simple math. Oh well.


----------



## bullethead (Sep 14, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> You're not making sense Atlas.


??????????



ted_BSR said:


> I can't believe ya'll can't do some simple math. Oh well.



Math, Reading Comprehension....we all have our weaknesses.

JUST busting ya a bit Ted.....


----------



## ted_BSR (Sep 15, 2012)

bullethead said:


> ??????????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's cool, I reckon I need it.


----------



## outdooraddict (Oct 2, 2012)

bigreddwon said:


> x2
> 
> Men create and feed delusions to comfort themselves IMO.



certainly your statement then could be one of them.


----------



## mtnwoman (Oct 16, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> Once people start believing, it makes them quit thinking.



Did the Wright Brothers believe they could fly? They kept on thinking until they did.

Did Alexander Graham Bell believe he could invent the telephone, and thought until he figured it out? Yes...ONLY because he believed.

Did someone believe that man could walk on the moon? They KEPT thinking about it until it happened.

What makes you think when people believe in something it makes them quit thinking?  Most people press on to prove what they believe to be true, as many people on this forum do, that actually causes you to think, not stop thinking.

Maybe I'm missing something in your post.


----------



## mtnwoman (Oct 16, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Why do you keep trying to offer it?



Your life is at stake, that's why.

The Jesus in us makes us do things we don't really want to do, but do it anyway. Trust me I could live without always ducking a fiery dart.


----------



## mtnwoman (Oct 16, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> It's what Genesis really _meant_ to say.



Just not enough time to explain all that in Genesis....
then after the toad turned into a dinosaur, an ape/monkey or should I say some apes, or some monkies or some fish turned into a man and then it was on.....ever since that...well God, we got it from there.


----------



## bullethead (Oct 16, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Did the Wright Brothers believe they could fly? They kept on thinking until they did.
> 
> Did Alexander Graham Bell believe he could invent the telephone, and thought until he figured it out? Yes...ONLY because he believed.
> 
> ...



Those examples are not even close to being anywhere similar to believing in some sort religion. By using your own example then, EVERY religion on the planet is possible because one person believes it could happen.

Instead of respect, religious beliefs should be suspect.  Any individual or group that not only speaks for an invisible being that is supposed to be of supreme intelligence beyond the human mind, but claims to understand the doings of such a being should be taken with heavy scrutiny.  Somehow they have information that no one else has.......and coincidentally the views,thoughts and actions of their God just so happens to match theirs to the "T".


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## iowa-boy (Oct 16, 2012)

This is why I don't join discussions on pagan stuff like this. I was born into the catholic faith at a young age and learned to believe what I wanted to believe and believe what I wanted to believe. And 99% of what is said in that book I "do not" believe. The other 1% is nothing. We were brought into this world by something, not someone who supposedly killed thousands in a worldly flood and they all forgave. Horse apples.


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## Thanatos (Oct 17, 2012)

God made you Atheist. Short and sweet.


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## BobKat (Nov 27, 2012)

I believe there was a God who created the world and maybe us. I dont believe that the bible is completly accurate. I was raised baptist. I also dont doubt that other peoples beliefs are incorrect either, who knows maybe they all exist. so not sure what i would call myself.


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## ambush80 (Nov 27, 2012)

BobKat said:


> I believe there was a God who created the world and maybe us. I dont believe that the bible is completly accurate. I was raised baptist. I also dont doubt that other peoples beliefs are incorrect either, who knows maybe they all exist. so not sure what i would call myself.




A deist.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 27, 2012)

BobKat said:


> I believe there was a God who created the world and maybe us. I dont believe that the bible is completly accurate. I was raised baptist. I also dont doubt that other peoples beliefs are incorrect either, who knows maybe they all exist. so not sure what i would call myself.



If you believe people of all religions go to Heaven then you could be a Unitarian Universalist. They believe that there are many paths to Heaven. Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to get to God. Christ as in Jesus is where the name comes from. You can believe in Christ and still be a Unitarian Universalist if you also believe there are other ways to Heaven although  most Christians would not follow this belief with you. Oprah & Joel Osteen believe there are many ways to Heaven but still consider themselves Christians so there are gray areas.


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## BobKat (Nov 28, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> If you believe people of all religions go to Heaven then you could be a Unitarian Universalist. They believe that there are many paths to Heaven. Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to get to God. Christ as in Jesus is where the name comes from. You can believe in Christ and still be a Unitarian Universalist if you also believe there are other ways to Heaven although  most Christians would not follow this belief with you. Oprah & Joel Osteen believe there are many ways to Heaven but still consider themselves Christians so there are gray areas.



Thank you, i always feel confused when trying to explain my beliefs i often just say im baptist.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 28, 2012)

BobKat said:


> Thank you, i always feel confused when trying to explain my beliefs i often just say im baptist.



No problem, I use to be a Baptist, now i'm not even sure i'm Protestant. We like to put labels on everything. Look at music, a song has to be either rock or country, jazz or blues. It can't just be music.


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## ambush80 (Nov 28, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> No problem, I use to be a Baptist, now i'm not even sure i'm Protestant. We like to put labels on everything. Look at music, a song has to be either rock or country, jazz or blues. It can't just be music.




....both kinds

http://


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## BobKat (Nov 28, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> No problem, I use to be a Baptist, now i'm not even sure i'm Protestant. We like to put labels on everything. Look at music, a song has to be either rock or country, jazz or blues. It can't just be music.



so true


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 28, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> If you believe people of all religions go to Heaven then you could be a Unitarian Universalist. They believe that there are many paths to Heaven. Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to get to God. Christ as in Jesus is where the name comes from. You can believe in Christ and still be a Unitarian Universalist if you also believe there are other ways to Heaven although  most Christians would not follow this belief with you. Oprah & Joel Osteen believe there are many ways to Heaven but still consider themselves Christians so there are gray areas.


unitarian universalist are veeery liberal, not to be confused with  biblical Unitarians


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