# women in ministry



## polkhunt (Nov 9, 2010)

I know that it says in the Bible that a Bishop or leader of a group of believers  is supposed the husband of one wife I am not even debating that point at all. I do wonder though what are your thoughts on women being ministers or preachers.


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2010)

polkhunt said:


> I know that it says in the Bible that a Bishop or leader of a group of believers  is supposed the husband of one wife I am not even debating that point at all. I do wonder though what are your thoughts on women being ministers or preachers.



I have no problem with it at all...


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

The Bible teaches against it.


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> The Bible teaches against it.



Which one?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

Jranger said:


> Which one?



The one thatsays HOLY in front


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> The one thatsays HOLY in front



What verse did you have in mind to support your claim?


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## TTom (Nov 9, 2010)

Well we know that Paul listed at least one woman Phoebe as a deacon.

Romans 16-1,2 (although various translations of the term "diakanos" have been used to try to say it was not ment as deacon but as something else)


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (King James Version)

 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

1 Corinthians 14:34 (King James Version)

 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (King James Version)
> 
> 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
> 
> ...



I pretty much have a problem with everything written there...


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

Jranger said:


> I pretty much have a problem with everything written there...



I didnt write it


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I didnt write it



I'm not singling you out by any means. So please don't take it that way.

I am just trying to convey my disdain for the tone they set regarding how you treat your women.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

Jranger said:


> I'm not singling you out by any means. So please don't take it that way.
> 
> I am just trying to convey my disdain for the tone they set regarding how you treat your women.



no it may sound bad but the bible teaches all through than women are not a whooping post and shold be treated with respect. it may sound bad but its not.


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## pnome (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (King James Version)
> 
> 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
> 
> ...



Ah, my favorite NT verse...

Read up ladies.  In Christianity, you are 2nd class.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 9, 2010)

pnome said:


> Ah, my favorite NT verse...
> 
> Read up ladies.  In Christianity, you are 2nd class.



it was eve to eat the forbidden fruit first and talk adam into eating it.


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## crackerdave (Nov 9, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> The Bible teaches against it.


It teaches that they shall not teach _men._


pnome said:


> Ah, my favorite NT verse...
> 
> Read up ladies.  In Christianity, you are 2nd class.



Wrong,debbil! There ain't no "class" system in Jesus' church.


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## polkhunt (Nov 9, 2010)

I think women take the scriptures as being that God thinks women cannot do certain things but it is not that at all. God is commanding men that they better do it because it is their responsibility.


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## johnnylightnin (Nov 9, 2010)

pnome said:


> Ah, my favorite NT verse...
> 
> Read up ladies.  In Christianity, you are 2nd class.



No more than the Son is 2nd class to the Father (he's not). Different roles, but not different values.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 9, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> There ain't no "class" system in Jesus' church.



That's interesting.  Kings, servants, slaves, masters ... no, no class system there at all.


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2010)

polkhunt said:


> I think women take the scriptures as being that God thinks women cannot do certain things but it is not that at all. God is commanding men that they better do it because it is their responsibility.



Well, you have to keep an open mind about what womans role/place was in society when the Bible was written as well.
I have no doubt in my mind that God would have nor does have any problem with any woman who preaches the word...


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 9, 2010)

REALLY??? SERIOUSLY??? We are going to do this one again??
The very least that could be done for a cogent disussion is to bring the etymological and antrhopological interpretations of the period into the discussion. Otherwise this will just be another chauvanistic, meaningless scripture copy and paste session like the other one was.


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## Randy (Nov 9, 2010)

Because "we" have changed changes what was meant in the Bible?  The Bible is clear what a man is suppose to do and what a woman is suppose to do.  It was clear then and it is clear today.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> REALLY??? SERIOUSLY??? We are going to do this one again??
> The very least that could be done for a cogent disussion is to bring the etymological and antrhopological interpretations of the period into the discussion. Otherwise this will just be another chauvanistic, meaningless scripture copy and paste session like the other one was.



speak english.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 9, 2010)

Randy said:


> Because "we" have changed changes what was meant in the Bible? The Bible is clear what a man is suppose to do and what a woman is suppose to do. It was clear then and it is clear today.


 
Ohhh, so we are taking the bible literally with no anthropological analysis whatsoever.

So when you were 19 and lusted after that cute girl which eye was it exactly that you plucked out? your left or your right? When you first started dating and maybe went a little further than you should have which offending hand did you cut off? your left or your right?

Give me a break.. You can't use literal application of the bible in a pick and choose fashion.


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## formula1 (Nov 9, 2010)

*Re:*

'My' own opinion is that Godly woman can teach the Word in this age and do it just fine by the Holy Spirit.

The truth is that very few men are willing to "man-up" and take responsibility for their relationship with God, especially in America.  God has been filling the void with whosoever will as a result!!!


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## crackerdave (Nov 9, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> That's interesting.  Kings, servants, slaves, masters ... no, no class system there at all.



Get thee behind me,satan! Go play in your _own_ sandbox.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 9, 2010)

formula1 said:


> 'My' own opinion is that Godly woman can teach the Word in this age and do it just fine by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> The truth is that very few men are willing to "man-up" and take responsibility for their relationship with God, especially in America.  God has been filling the void with whosoever will as a result!!!



I agree, joyce myers is a great bible teacher. I do not believe in women being pastors , but they can teach, how many women teach sunday school to kids.


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## Lead Poison (Nov 10, 2010)

The Bible addresses this issue. 

Therefore, I do not believe women should be pastors of churches. 

Men should honor their wives and wives should honor their husbands.


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## jason4445 (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh, Yes - the bondage Scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, man how the "don't read the Bible just read the verse" conservatives love this one.

And it is no less paradoxical that the Conservative Christians change the word "speak" to mean preach.  In even the most Conservative Bible hammering, verse slinging church I have been in women speak - they also pray out loud, sing, talk to each other - so it is overlooked that women speak (although the verse says not to) but indeed because of this verse they cannot preach or be a member of any organizational body that runs the church.

In this book, Corinthians, as well as other books where these bondage concepts are formed, Paul often reiterates what others have written him in his attempt to unify the church - he is not preaching it is acceptable. 

In other words, 1Corinthians 14:34-35 never originated with Paul. It originated with the Corinthians. Paul only reiterates what the Corinthians said as a rebuke to the Corinthian church in the letter we now read (believe) as Scripture. The Corinthians originally wrote about how women cannot speak in their church to Paul, and Paul told them how absurd it was for them to say that the law commands women to be silent in the church ─ The women are the church says Paul. Paul said that what the Corinthians were teaching were not  commandments from the Lord.  

This is shown in 1 Corinthians 11:4 notice that Paul jumps right in about the "head covering" and says, "Every man (this means male in the Greek) praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonors his head." But then in verse 5 he says, "But every woman (female)  that prays or prophesies (preaches) with her head uncovered dishonors her head..." notice that the women are praying and prophesying (preaching).  The whole section of 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 is to establish that women (in their culture) when they pray or prophesy (preach) in church need to have their heads covered, not that they can't pray or preach at all. And all this head convering business, although it is scripture, is ignored in today's church.

To show that Paul means all members of the church can speak (of course in Conservative Christianity that means preach) Paul in this book talks about spiritual gifts.  Notice that "the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, speaking in tongues and the interpretation" all require speaking in the church, and the speaking is done by both men and women.

So it is the Corinthians that are saying women cannot speak (preach) in the church not Paul and most certainly not God.

It has been shameful how Fundamentalist Christianity has taken a majority section of Christians, the ones who historically have done the most to keep Christianity on track, the women, and reduced them for no other reason than being female, into something so unworthy as to keep them from ministering the word of God to others.  Of all things found in Fundamentalism this is the worse  and most foul.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 10, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Oh, Yes - the bondage Scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, man how the "don't read the Bible just read the verse" conservatives love this one.
> 
> And it is no less paradoxical that the Conservative Christians change the word "speak" to mean preach. In even the most Conservative Bible hammering, verse slinging church I have been in women speak - they also pray out loud, sing, talk to each other - so it is overlooked that women speak (although the verse says not to) but indeed because of this verse they cannot preach or be a member of any organizational body that runs the church.
> 
> ...


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Oh, Yes - the bondage Scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, man how the "don't read the Bible just read the verse" conservatives love this one.
> 
> And it is no less paradoxical that the Conservative Christians change the word "speak" to mean preach.  In even the most Conservative Bible hammering, verse slinging church I have been in women speak - they also pray out loud, sing, talk to each other - so it is overlooked that women speak (although the verse says not to) but indeed because of this verse they cannot preach or be a member of any organizational body that runs the church.
> 
> ...




it dosent only say it in corinthians.


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## decoyed (Nov 10, 2010)

many "men" claiming to be preachers don't come close.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> I dont think that was the question...
> 
> the question was can they be ministers and/or preachers.



no, and if they do its not in the will of god. Nowhere in the bible can you find where HE called a woman to preach.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 10, 2010)

I pity the spiritually blind-------------for they have eyes, but cannot see
I pity the spiritually deaf-------------for they have ears, but cannot hear

A closed mind is a closed heart, and do not fool yourself by thinking that God will not judge you for that.


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## Randy (Nov 10, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> I agree, joyce myers is a great bible teacher. I do not believe in women being pastors , but they can teach, how many women teach sunday school to kids.


Joyce is also quick to say she is doing this under her husbands authority.  She knows what the Bible says.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I pity the spiritually blind-------------for they have eyes, but cannot see
> I pity the spiritually deaf-------------for they have ears, but cannot hear
> 
> A closed mind is a closed heart, and do not fool yourself by thinking that God will not judge you for that.



and he will judge you for your sins you think are ok.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

miguel cervantes said:


> i pity the spiritually blind-------------for they have eyes, but cannot see
> i pity the spiritually deaf-------------for they have ears, but cannot hear
> 
> a closed mind is a closed heart, and do not fool yourself by thinking that god will not judge you for that.



pitty the man who points fingers. He shall also be judged.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

Vanguard1 you need to start us a new topic or forum or somthing, the spiritual and christianity threads are just dead this mornin i need somthing to discuss!


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> and where did your receive your biblical training from............



open your bible start in genisus and end at revelation.
Start over at genisus read again and again and again.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 10, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> and he will judge you for your sins you think are ok.


 


Gabassmaster said:


> pitty the man who points fingers. He shall also be judged.


 
I have rendered no sins OK. I have pointed no fingers. Nor have I displayed blatent self righteous tendancies...

Good luck with all of that gentlemen.


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## FishHunt (Nov 10, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I didnt write it



True.....but other men did.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> and where did your receive your biblical training from............



well I got mine from RHEMA BIBLE SCHOOL , Tulsa, OK


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## vanguard1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> Vanguard1 you need to start us a new topic or forum or somthing, the spiritual and christianity threads are just dead this mornin i need somthing to discuss!



I would but I am looking for a job on line about 5 hours a day .


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> I would but I am looking for a job on line about 5 hours a day .



man too bad. Hope you find one and be sure to b careful my girlfriend was doing that and got scammed by some fake online jobs.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 10, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> I agree, joyce myers is a great bible teacher. I do not believe in women being pastors , but they can teach, how many women teach sunday school to kids.



Great points.

I'm not interested in anyone's opinions on this.  I don't care what you believe is "fair" or not.
I do care what the Bible says about the subject.

What does the Bible say about women in ministry?
And whatever applied in the 1st century must apply today because none of us has the authority to do otherwise.

There is much for women of the church to be doing.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 10, 2010)

Then this proves it. Since you guys are sticking to the literal word of the bible, with no cultural implications of the area or period it was written, then I'm sure you all have only one eye and one hand as well.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Joel 2:28-29 (King James Version)

 28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 

 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.


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## Ihunt (Nov 23, 2010)

A good sermon will leave you thinking no matter who preached it.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 23, 2010)

Ihunt said:


> A good sermon will leave you thinking no matter who preached it.



make me thinking of a way to get out of there


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 27, 2014)

I think it would be OK for women to preach if they aren't gay.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 3, 2014)

Joyce Meyers also has a pastor and she teaches under his authority.

Women teachers,yes, but not shepherds of the flock.

In the same scripture that says women should submit to their husbands....it says husbands are to love their wives. No husband that loves his wife will  make her do something that she does not want to do.

I have no husband, except for Christ....I believe He guides me into what to say and do.  I don't have a man to tell me that everything I say is wrong....well except for gon forum...

I tend to agree with Miguel's posts. I don't wear something on my head or cover my hair, I wear jewelry and makeup and wear pants   I just don't believe you can pick and choose what you want to.  It's all or none.  Your wife can or can't wear a diamond ring? She has to cover her head, not sit with you in church, never speak...

Those guys were raised Jewish with Jewish customs....it took 40 years for God to breed the slavery mentality out of the Jews in the desert.  They were suppose to be preaching the gospel not trying to enforce the laws that Christ set us free from.....well at least some of them.

Heck I know my place....


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## mtnwoman (Mar 3, 2014)

formula1 said:


> 'My' own opinion is that Godly woman can teach the Word in this age and do it just fine by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> The truth is that very few men are willing to "man-up" and take responsibility for their relationship with God, especially in America.  God has been filling the void with whosoever will as a result!!!



AMEN!!!

The Jews didn't believe but the gentiles did...He took us.
So that led to 'whosoever'....take lottie moon for example.


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## 04ctd (Mar 3, 2014)

i got in trouble last night, I had wrote a note to myself:
"women are OK to teach in the church, if the men are to sorry to teach"
and it got read outloud at a church meeting   

got this in email, after a discussion on this subject:



> A large part of the discussion would have to be, at the time of the NT writing, women were not theologically trained as men were, so while they may have had the heart, they may not have had the hours of study & depth of discussion a Pharisee or Sadducee would have had.
> 
> The following verses can be used to explain women being leaders in the church.  We must remember that at the time of the writing of the letters in the Bible, churches were not big buildings (with big tall steeples); they were house congregations consisting of small groups of people.  Women helped in maintain the home congregation in whatever way was needed.  Deacons and deaconesses were those who attended to the needs of the congregation and maintained the fellowship, the physical things.  Some of them, no doubt, also taught and witnessed to the gospel, making them in essence leaders.  Women served in this capacity.  However, we did not find any evidence that women served as main spiritual leaders such as elders.  Spiritual leaders and pastors were the elders.
> 
> ...


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## hobbs27 (Mar 3, 2014)

Women can minister to women and children but are not burdened with the task of ministering to men.Not that women aren't good enough but because men are too easily decieved by women. To say men won't man up to the task is to say God isn't powerful enough to persuade man! I say God is able, and the NT is clear that women are not to teach men in the church.


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