# Ammo shortage



## whchunter (Jan 12, 2009)

Haven't been able to find .22 bulk ammo at any Walmart or Kmart recently. Also went online to Midway USA and most of their bulk was on backorder. Walmart and Kmart says they haven't had any in weeks and their warehouse is out as well. Don't know when they will get any.  Any ideas as to why there is a shortage?  Have manufacturers stopped making to create a supply and demand issue or are they waiting on a bailout like Larry Flynn?


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

Did you go to sleep on November 3rd and just now are waking up?  

People started buying firearms and ammo like crazy right after the election.  Ammo manufacturers just can't keep up with the demand.


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## boneboy96 (Jan 12, 2009)

that's pretty much ALL I've been buying in the last 6 weeks...cases and crates of ammo!


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## dchfm123 (Jan 12, 2009)

yeah there are a lot of tards buyin ammo like crazy because they think the worlds end is near now that Obama is president.  I pity them.


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## flatfoot (Jan 12, 2009)

It's kinda like car, home or health insurance. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.


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## whitworth (Jan 12, 2009)

*It's a Conspiracy*

Now, do you feel better !!!


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## Craig Knight (Jan 12, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> yeah there are a lot of tards buyin ammo like crazy because they think the worlds end is near now that Obama is president.  I pity them.



No not the end of the world just afraid it may be the end of ammo availability and cost as we know it. Better to be safe than sorry. I am sure that some of us will have some we can sale to you at a later date for an inflated price.


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## seaweaver (Jan 12, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> yeah there are a lot of tards buyin ammo like crazy because they think the worlds end is near now that Obama is president.  I pity them.



Like CR said....and..all the pending legislation to curb ammo is not a fairy tail like Barak coming from the the sewer pit of Chicago untouched...
they don't talk much about micro stamping ammo and of ammo being taxed on Entertainment tonight..

cw


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## buckstoper (Jan 12, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> yeah there are a lot of tards buyin ammo like crazy because they think the worlds end is near now that Obama is president.  I pity them.


Tards come on now , when is the last time you read a nra article . dont you know where still having to fight laws trying to be passed,that where brought up  by our last democrat president & his wife hillary ..


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## Hammack (Jan 12, 2009)

dchfm, do you ever make a post that isn't negative?  The fact is you are wrong, people have a reason to be buying ammo, and the fact that all of these ammo legislations have been shown up is proof that the Obama administration will continue on it's path as the strongest opponent of the 2nd amendment we have had.  You and the ones who sit back and think as you do are the ones I pity because they will be the ones who will sit idly by while we loose our rights one by one.


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## elfiii (Jan 12, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Did you go to sleep on November 3rd and just now are waking up?
> 
> People started buying firearms and ammo like crazy right after the election.  Ammo manufacturers just can't keep up with the demand.



Some of us started before the election.


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## whchunter (Jan 12, 2009)

*22sss*

Center fire I can understand but I don't plan on making a stand with my .22.


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## Sterlo58 (Jan 12, 2009)

I have run into the same thing with .22 ammo. I have already bought centerfire rifle and shotgun ammo but bulk 22 is hard to find ???

As far as the comment about "tards", the price is going up continually and the tards will be the ones who did nothing.


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## jettman96 (Jan 12, 2009)

yeah right now the ONLY thing raising the the prices of ammo are the people that are trying to buy up as much as they can.... making demand out weigh supply.  

When will people realize that the president can't do anything without congressional and senate approval...  I'm no political expert but, when will others figure this out???


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## dchfm123 (Jan 12, 2009)

Hammack said:


> dchfm, do you ever make a post that isn't negative?  The fact is you are wrong, people have a reason to be buying ammo, and the fact that all of these ammo legislations have been shown up is proof that the Obama administration will continue on it's path as the strongest opponent of the 2nd amendment we have had.  You and the ones who sit back and think as you do are the ones I pity because they will be the ones who will sit idly by while we loose our rights one by one.



I will do my part when the time is right.  Buying up all the ammo you can is not going to help.  All it is doing is raising the prices becasue the suppliers cant keep up.  The other thing it is doing is giving obama fuel.  He will use the way we are buying up ammo and guns against us just whe way he did with other things in his campaign.  He will call us trigger happy crazy's and point this out to all the anti gun activists and other democrats out there and use it to brainwash them the same way he did the voters that think he is going to give them tax relief and fix everything for the people on well fair and food stamps.  These gun issues need to be treated like a chess match or deer hunting.  Sit back and strike at the right time.  That is what he is doing and right now he is laughing at us for what we are doing.


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## dchfm123 (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> yeah right now the ONLY thing raising the the prices of ammo are the people that are trying to buy up as much as they can.... making demand out weigh supply.
> 
> When will people realize that the president can't do anything without congressional and senate approval...  I'm no political expert but, when will others figure this out???



Yes, there is at least one person on here who has a clue.


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## DYI hunting (Jan 12, 2009)

I have always purchased ammo when I can.  I have a "few" rounds laying in the basement safe and I have been trying to pickup some more at decent prices when I see it.  Guys who have not stockpiled ammo over the years are just now doing so.  I don't think makes them a "tard", just a little behind the power curve.  Actually I am a bit behind with a new .308 and only about a thousand rounds so far with half that being gray cased Wolf and I am out on the prowl for more ammo even at slightly inflated prices.


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## seaweaver (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> yeah right now the ONLY thing raising the the prices of ammo are the people that are trying to buy up as much as they can.... making demand out weigh supply.
> 
> When will people realize that the president can't do anything without *congressional and senate approval*...  I'm no political expert but, when will others figure this out???



Errrrr

did....you happen to notice the consistency of congress?

_
Sit back and strike at the right time. That is what he is doing and right now he is laughing at us for what we are doing.
_


Wow...you just sunk my Battleship

cw


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Some of us started before the election.



Ya don't say?


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## chambers270 (Jan 12, 2009)

Funny how people laugh at others for having common sense. The only thing buying ammo to put up means is . . . you will have ammo later no matter if it is available in the stores or if the price triples.

As far as why 22 rounds, because alot of people shoot more 22s alot. I like to shoot inexpensive ammo, hence the 22 caliber.

I am picking up a few boxes here and there, I have ran out of ammo before and dont plan on it happening again. Just like the price of guns, stores will be stocked back up in a month of two.Whether it is at a decent price, or if it has an increased tax on it, we don't know.


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> When will people realize that the president can't do anything without congressional and senate approval...  I'm no political expert but, when will others figure this out???




Correct, you are no political expert.  Ever heard of executive orders?  Go do a little research.  Heck, the war in Kosovo was started with an executive order!


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## redlevel (Jan 12, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Some of us started before the election.



I started buying two 550 round bulk packs of .22 rimfire per month over a year ago.  Some months four.  If they had Federal, that's what I got, but I got Remington if that's all they had.  That is in addition to what I was shooting, of course.  I'm still shooting some .22s from 1993.

I guess I've been hoarding ammo and reloading supplies since 1993.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 12, 2009)

All I know is I looked at some ammo a few months back. Thought I would have time to get some at a later date. They no longer have any...

I still have less than a 1000 rounds for either caliber I shoot except possibly 22. The wife was laughing about it until I mentioned that we were scheduled to hit the range this week and we generally burn up about 500 rounds per trip...


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## elfiii (Jan 12, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Ya don't say?





I ain't quite got to buyin' it by the pallet load just yet!


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## jettman96 (Jan 12, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Correct, you are no political expert.  Ever heard of executive orders?  Go do a little research.  Heck, the war in Kosovo was started with an executive order!



Man!!! Calm down!!!  

Yes, but only certain things can be done under executive order... wars are one of them and even then they have to be approved by congress, if I'm not mistaken.  You my friend, apparently are not a political expert either.  I may not be able to quote everything that can or cannot be done under executive order, but, I know that most laws require congressional/senate approval.

Other wise we would be a dictatorship.


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> Man!!! Calm down!!!
> 
> Yes, but only certain things can be done under executive order... wars are one of them and even then they have to be approved by congress, if I'm not mistaken.  You my friend, apparently are not a political expert either.  I may not be able to quote everything that can or cannot be done under executive order, but, I know that most laws require congressional/senate approval.
> 
> Other wise we would be a dictatorship.



Um, I am very calm.  

Bush Sr. banned importation of 40+ types of weapons in 1989 by executive order.  I never said I was a political expert but it appears I know a little more than you do on the subject of a president being able to ban firearms and/or ammunition without the need of congress.   I wonder "when will others figure this out???"  

Take care.


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## jettman96 (Jan 12, 2009)

Bookhound which gun law are you referring to?  Everything I can find says that Bush Sr. has opposed gun control laws since Mar 1980.  I am trying to find it but, I cannot.

Thanks,
Jett


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

Some info here:

Q: What action had been taken on assault weapons prior to 1994?

A: Prior to passage of the federal assault weapons ban, the importation of certain types of assault weapons from overseas had been banned during the Reagan and George H.W. Bush Administrations. Such bans were ordered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) under the 1968 Gun Control Act, which grants the ATF the power to prevent the importation of guns which are not "particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."

Under the Reagan Administration, the ATF blocked the importation of certain models of shotguns that were not suitable for sporting purposes. In 1989, during the George H.W. Bush Administration, the ATF expanded this list to permanently ban the importation of 43 types of semi-automatic assault rifles that were also determined not to have a sporting purpose.

Later, in 1998, President Clinton banned the importation of 58 additional foreign-made "copycat" assault weapons in order to close a loophole in the prior import ban.


http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb


And this article mentions it too:

"President Bush invoked the same “sporting purposes” clause in 1989 when he suspended the importation of 43 models of semiautomatic assault weapons, including those whose importation had already been granted. Bush’s action was challenged in court but was upheld."

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/nov/15/news/mn-54043

And more here:

"As part of its responsibilities, in 1989, ATF prohibited the importation into the United States of a series of semiautomatic assault rifles, which had specified military features, because these weapons were not sporting weapons. The 1989 decision, along with the 1994 assault weapons ban have made it harder for criminals to obtain semiautomatic assault weapons; however, as long as these other militarized features were removed, neither measure prevented rifles with the ability to accept large capacity military magazines which fire large numbers of bullets in a very short time frame without reloading from entering our country. 

"Today we are taking steps to stop the flow of these deadly rapid-firing weapons by prohibiting the importation of designated semiautomatic rifles that have the ability to accept large capacity military magazines. Our decision today stems from a comprehensive review conducted by the Treasury Department and the ATF." 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june98/guns_4-6.html


But here is the twist.  Go search for the ACTUAL executive order and you will do a LOT of digging before finding anything and even then it isn't conclusive.  Bush basically just went to the ATF and told them to ban the importation of the 43 different weapons he specifically listed.  The so called "executive order" he used to do this isn't on the official list of EOs!

Now that is scary.

Bottom line is that a president has power in his ink pen to change everything without congress if he so wishes.  An EO could be argued as unconstitutional but it has to go before the court before an EO could be overturned.  Look at the Heller case and tell me the ban that DID happen (whether through EO or simply a call from the pres to ATF) and tell me the ban wasn't unconstitutional.

We are mere subjects.  We even have one jack-booted thug on this board who openly states he would gladly come take away your guns and doesn't think you even have a right to own them.  I hope they come to my house first.

Take care.


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

BTW…

I wasn’t trying to offend you with my earlier posts.  I’m sorry if I have done so and if so I apologize.  It was not my intention.  However, your first post does very much come across very condescending towards people who are buying more ammo than usual out of fear that it might become harder to get or more expensive in the future.  Their increased purchasing is drying up the supply and causing prices to get higher (typical supply and demand).  Same is happening with weapons; supply has dropped and prices have increased.

Oh, the gun grabbers ARE coming for our guns and ammo.  Make no mistake.


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## jettman96 (Jan 12, 2009)

As for the importation bans that you refer to, I half agree with simply because I don't think anyone has a need for fully automatic weapons in their home even in a sporting nature.  I do believe that some of the weapons mentioned as assault weapons are unjustly labeled so simply because they are semi-automatic weapons.  (For the record I own an SKS)  I do not think that fully automatic weapons are what our fore-fathers intended as a right to bare arms.

I also, believe that Bush Sr. (who is anti-gun control laws) passed that bill as initiative to keep weapons that are commonly purchased by criminals out of the country.  I think he was also able to coordinate this "under-the-covers" with ATF because importation falls under legal structures and does not necessarily directly impact the rights of the individual.

But, back on topic...

Yes, I personally think that most of the people that are stocking up on ammo and buying up all the guns that they can afford are being overly paranoid.  And I too will apologize if I came across in a condescending manner.  Honestly, I try to stay out of these threads because I can get a little worked up.

Yes, I am frustrated just like many of other people I have talked with about trying to find ammo and the prices going up.  Oh well, I we just have to deal with it.

Do I think that during the next administration there will be some attempt to pass gun control laws that will limit our consumption of ammunition and restrict the weapons we can pruchase?  Yes, I think the legislation will be presented but, I'm confident that checks and balances will work it out and we will be no worst for wear when it is said and done.

And if it comes right down to it... I will be on your side of the issue.  I just think that people are getting paranoid.

I do try respect the opinions of others and this will be my final word on the thread.


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## ac man (Jan 12, 2009)

if you are looking to buy some .22 try CMP. you can still get it 
thru them.


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## jettman96 (Jan 12, 2009)

CMP???  

Ok maybe not my last post on the thread


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## redlevel (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> As for the importation bans that you refer to, I half agree with simply because I don't think anyone has a need for fully automatic weapons in their home even in a sporting nature.



Re-read the post.  All the Bush banned guns were semi-automatics.  None were fully automatic.  

I doubt there was actually an Executive Order issued.  Under existing laws at the time, ATF had the "discretionary authority" to add certain guns to the list.  Bush ordered (small "o") them to exercise that authority.


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## elfiii (Jan 12, 2009)

jettman96 said:


> As for the importation bans that you refer to, I half agree with simply because I don't think anyone has a need for fully automatic weapons in their home even in a sporting nature.



Explain to me why my right to own an automatic weapon should be infringed simply because you "think" I have no "need" to own one? Who are you to determine what I "need"?


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## BookHound (Jan 12, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Bush ordered (small "o") them to exercise that authority.



Exactly.  In the media it was stated at an executive order.  Still is considered that in historical documents but the problem is you can't find an official executive order.  What really happened is he placed a phone call instead of stroking his pen.


Jett, no problem bro.  I get worked up on the issue too and agree that in the end we're really all on the same side here.  I do agree there is a certain amount of paranoid behavior driving this crazy buying.  I just happen to think of some lyrics that seem to fit: "Just because you're paranoid don't mean that they're not after you."  Hope for the best but plan for the worst.  

Take care, bud.  

Mark


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## chambers270 (Jan 12, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Explain to me why my right to own an automatic weapon should be infringed simply because you "think" I have no "need" to own one? Who are you to determine what I "need"?



I agree with this Elfii. There is too much power for others in that situation, I might think you dont "need" a boat, or a 4 wheel drive. I mean I dont plan on having any automatic weapons, but it is nice to know that it is an option. 

I like to decide for myself what I "need." It is a good thing I am low on cash or I would have a lot more guns I "need"


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## dchfm123 (Jan 13, 2009)

The weapons that were band were ifact all fully automatic sub machinguns durring the first ban and the second ban were on assault rifles.  If you are going to quote stuff make sure you have all the info.  There was never a ban on semi auto assault rifles or pistols.  Semi automatic sub machine guns are classified differently and are still imported to this day.  This includes guns like tec9's, mac 10's, uzi's, semi auto mp5's and so on, only full auto or machine pistols were ban'ed.  That is why a semi auto mp5 cost 4 grand and a full auto cost 12 grand, they are that hard to come by.  Same goes for assault rifles.  Full auto ak's, m16's, hk's gallies(or however they are spelled and such were ban'ed.  Semi auto ak's, sks, and others like were never ban'ed.  ar-15's and other american made assault rifle's will never be banned from importation, why?  they are american made.  The only reason that the president was able to do what he did back then was becasue he had congress's support.  If they oppose what the president wants then it goes to a vote.  Congress and the senate wont allow this to happen, it will Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- off to many people and when re-election time comes around they will need those votes.


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## BookHound (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> The weapons that were band were ifact all fully automatic sub machinguns durring the first ban and the second ban were on assault rifles.  If you are going to quote stuff make sure you have all the info.  There was never a ban on semi auto assault rifles or pistols.  Semi automatic sub machine guns are classified differently and are still imported to this day.  This includes guns like tec9's, mac 10's, uzi's, semi auto mp5's and so on, only full auto or machine pistols were ban'ed.  That is why a semi auto mp5 cost 4 grand and a full auto cost 12 grand, they are that hard to come by.  Same goes for assault rifles.  Full auto ak's, m16's, hk's gallies(or however they are spelled and such were ban'ed.  Semi auto ak's, sks, and others like were never ban'ed.  ar-15's and other american made assault rifle's will never be banned from importation, why?  they are american made.  The only reason that the president was able to do what he did back then was becasue he had congress's support.  If they oppose what the president wants then it goes to a vote.  Congress and the senate wont allow this to happen, it will Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- off to many people and when re-election time comes around they will need those votes.





Um.... WRONG!   They were SEMI-AUTO weapons that were banned by Bush and Clinton.  Go read the facts before you post stupid crap.  The only thing you got right was this:  "If you are going to quote stuff make sure you have all the info."  I do actually agree with you on that statement and hope you comply in the future.

"There was never a ban on semi auto assault rifles or pistols."  - Are you for real?  Were you even alive during 1994-2004???  Wipe the breast milk off your lip, sonny.

No, transferable MP5s are NOT hard to come by.  You blew the semi-auto variant dollar number by a few grand but are surprisingly close to the transferable price.  Good guess (for the most part I suppose)!!





Other MGs are not BANNED.  They are restricted and limited in numbers.  If your liberal teachers don't have a clue I'd be happy to come educate them.  My normal consulting rates will apply.  

Oh, and there is no such thing as a "Semi automatic sub machine gun".  Submachine guns are select-fire or fully-automatic weapons in pistol calibers.  No semi-auto about it, chief.  PLEASE work harder next time to get the terminology correct.  It would be so helpful and more enjoyable to the reader if your statements were accurate.

No, the president (Bush, Clinton) did NOT have congress’ support.  He didn't even call them after the fact to tell them what he did.  PLEASE do us all a favor and GET EDUCATED before you attempt any more posts on this or any other subject other than maybe how to get top score on the most recent Nintendo game.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 13, 2009)

"As for the importation bans that you refer to, I half agree with simply because I don't think anyone has a need for fully automatic weapons in their home even in a sporting nature."

I don't think you have any need of a fiching pole or hooks or a tackle box either. Would that be ok with you sir? You get to tell me what sort of firearms I can own and I get to tell you what sort of fishing gear you get to own.. Fact of the matter IF you bother to read you'll find that the sort of arms used by our military are exactly the sort of arms the founding fathers had in mind. The first clue is the second amendment itself. "a well regulated militia..."  Kinda hard for a militia to be well "regulated" if it doesn't have the ability to have the arms.

Far to few people understand what the second amendment is about. They tend to think in terms of hunting or sporting arms. The second amendment is about YOUR ability to defend yourself and your country from oppressors within your government and from invaders. It isn't about your ability to hunt or target shoot. The fact that you can hunt and shoot targets with the same weapon that you need to defend your country is not germaine to the discussion.

I haven't noticed the price of ammo going up at my local wal mart and they had what I was looking for the last couple of times I looked. (That and they are subject to be out on any given shopping trip because they dont stock 9mm by the thousands and when I buy 400-500 rounds it may be all they have at any given time.) Wal Mart doesn't carry everything so I have to buy some ammo elsewhere.

When I mentioned that I "missed out" on some ammo, what I missed out on was surplus 30-06 ammo for my Garand.

http://www.m1garandrifle.com/

Used to have some Greek HXP surplus for reasonable prices. Since I need the operating spring I figured I'd get some ammo while I was getting the spring only at the time my printer was deadlined and I couldn't send the neccessary paperwork. Now they no longer have the ammo and all the places I have looked are out. Since it was surplus it is possible the supply has dried up. But I have noticed the last couple of times I was at the LGS that more people were in buying firearms than normal. Sure wish they would get some Kahr mags in....


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## dchfm123 (Jan 13, 2009)

bookhound,  you really are clueless.  I had a long discusion with my father about this before I posted in this thread.  I am not sure if you know of them but he is one of the owners of Davidsons which is a large gun and ammo wholesale company.  Their was never a full ban only tighter restrictions put on importing the guns which limited it to only a few manufacturers.  And yes their are sub machine guns and machine pistols that are semi auto.  You can get semi auto mp5's - sub machine gun, and semi auto tek9's - machine pistol, these are only 2 examples.  

Keep on warrioring on.


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## simpleman30 (Jan 13, 2009)

personally, i am concerned of legislation that may be introduced that may affect our gun ownership.  am i freaking out about it?  no.  i do know that ammo has done nothing but increase incrementally through the years, as everything does due to inflation.  i'd say i spend around $100 bucks a month on ammo for anything from .22 mag rounds for my rifle and my pistol, .410 rounds every so often($14 a box), 30.06 rifle rounds, even a box or 2 of 12 ga 00 buckshot now and then.


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## KingTiger (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> bookhound,  you really are clueless.  I had a long discusion with my father about this before I posted in this thread.  I am not sure if you know of them but he is one of the owners of Davidsons which is a large gun and ammo wholesale company.  Their was never a full ban only tighter restrictions put on importing the guns which limited it to only a few manufacturers.  And yes their are sub machine guns and machine pistols that are semi auto.  You can get semi auto mp5's - sub machine gun, and semi auto tek9's - machine pistol, these are only 2 examples.
> 
> Keep on warrioring on.




BookHound - You're wasting your time & key strokes on this guy. At least I appreciate your input & know the information you furnish has been researched and is valid. I realize I don't have all the answers and I welcome facts to further my firearms education. I'm still trying to figure out what a "semi auto sub machine gun" is.


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## BookHound (Jan 13, 2009)

KingTiger said:


> BookHound - You're wasting your time & key strokes on this guy. At least I appreciate your input & know the information you furnish has been researched and is valid. I realize I don't have all the answers and I welcome facts to further my firearms education. I'm still trying to figure out what a "semi auto sub machine gun" is.



I know, bro.  And you know me lashing out like that is not typical.  I usually can sit on my fingers for a ten count before typing but occasionally not.  LOL.  Take care.


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## redlevel (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> And yes their are sub machine guns and machine pistols that are semi auto.



Son, yo' daddy done wasted _all_ that money he spent sending you to school!

You ain't learnt _nuthin'._

At least not nuthin' that is so!


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## BookHound (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> bookhound,  you really are clueless.  I had a long discusion with my father about this before I posted in this thread.  I am not sure if you know of them but he is one of the owners of Davidsons which is a large gun and ammo wholesale company.  Their was never a full ban only tighter restrictions put on importing the guns which limited it to only a few manufacturers.  And yes their are sub machine guns and machine pistols that are semi auto.  You can get semi auto mp5's - sub machine gun, and semi auto tek9's - machine pistol, these are only 2 examples.
> 
> Keep on warrioring on.



Oh, I know who Davidson's is.  I'm also in the industry.  

Go ask your father about barrel import BANS.  If he has any real knowledge he will understand that and hopefully set you straight.  Ask him about the HK rifles that were banned.  In fact, why not hand him the keyboard?  Maybe he has more of a clue.  I could give specific examples, but like my buddy KingTiger stated, why waste the time?  You obviously have better info than the rest of the world since your Daddy sells wholesale firearms.  (BTW, I'm kinda an RSR Group guy anyway.  )  

There is NO SUCH THING as a sub machine gun or sub machine gun pistol that is semi-auto.  There are semi-auto CLONES.  Please work harder to get the terminology correct.  It does make a difference to some folks.   

"Keep on warrioring on."  You too.  Enjoy Call of Duty.  

Ta-ta.


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## leoparddog (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm, go back to your Wii and don't argue with your betters.  

When you need detailed information about laws and ATF rules and history in general, don't go to your daddy (as if he would even know).  Go spend a few hours doing the research yourself.  Heck for that matter, click on the links provided above and actually read them.


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## whitworth (Jan 13, 2009)

*Chicken Little*

is just going to fly over Georgia in a helicopter and scent out all the sources of that smokeless powder.


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## bat (Jan 13, 2009)




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## georgiaboy (Jan 13, 2009)

BookHound said:


> "Keep on warrioring on."  You too.  Enjoy Call of Duty.
> 
> Ta-ta.



  YOU owe me a new keyboard Book!


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## GA1dad (Jan 13, 2009)

I happened by Walmart in Anderson  SC this morn myself,,,,,, same results,,,, sold out of "bulk" 22 fodder.


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## BookHound (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123, one more thing.  Is your Dad gonna be at SHOT Show this week?  I'd love to say hi.  PM me his info if you want.


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## DYI hunting (Jan 13, 2009)

op2:


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## dchfm123 (Jan 13, 2009)

BookHound said:


> dchfm123, one more thing.  Is your Dad gonna be at SHOT Show this week?  I'd love to say hi.  PM me his info if you want.



He does not go to them but empoyees do, I will find out who will be there.  Which one and where?


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 13, 2009)

I'd dearly love to see one of these semi auto sub machine guns...

Since by definition if a firearm is semi auto it can not be a machine gun which fires multiple rounds per pull of the trigger. Calling anything semi auto a sub machine gun or an assault rifle is a bunch of horse poo. 

MACHINE GUN–noun a small arm operated by a mechanism, able to deliver a rapid and CONTINUOUS fire of bullets as long as the trigger is pressed. 

ASSAULT RIFLE–noun 1. a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge. 

Oh you can indeed buy firearms that look like a sub machine gun or an assault rifle but they are not sub machine guns or assault rifles. The politicians coined a new term and defined it as they saw fit to restrict your rights. Do not fall into their trap and start using their terminology.

A magazine is a magazine and a clip is a clip. Your semi auto handgun does not use a clip unless it happens to be a Mauser C96 (there may be a few others I am not aware of) a GLOCK does not use a CLIP it uses a MAGAZINE. My Garand however does use a clip.

An assault rifle is a select fire weapon, capable of firing multiple projectiles per trigger pull. The original definiton also specified a lower than normal battle rifle powered cartridge.


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## elfiii (Jan 13, 2009)

Great research Mike!


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## dchfm123 (Jan 13, 2009)

balvarik said:


> U.S. BANS IMPORTS OF ASSAULT RIFLES IN SHIFT BY BUSH
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is true but as I said above it did not stop the importing of assault rifles from foreign countrys.  On sks's the removed the bayonet lug and shiped the rifles without bayonets.  Ak's were converted to the sporter model.  They were fitted with thumbhole stocks and standard rifle stocks and came with a 5 round mag.  They still accepted the 30+ round mags that you purchsed aftermarket and if you wanted a pistol grip stock you could obviously get them aftermarket as well.  These are just 2 examples, I could go on for days. 

Obama will never be able to take away our guns.  Restrictions yes and we have dealt with that before.  There are ways around them and you may just have to spend a bit more.


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## BookHound (Jan 13, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> That is true but as I said above it did not stop the importing of assault rifles from foreign countrys.  On sks's the removed the bayonet lug and shiped the rifles without bayonets.  Ak's were converted to the sporter model.  They were fitted with thumbhole stocks and standard rifle stocks and came with a 5 round mag.  They still accepted the 30+ round mags that you purchsed aftermarket and if you wanted a pistol grip stock you could obviously get them aftermarket as well.  These are just 2 examples, I could go on for days.
> 
> Obama will never be able to take away our guns.  Restrictions yes and we have dealt with that before.  There are ways around them and you may just have to spend a bit more.




There was an import ban.  That is the fact some were debating and you for some reason just seem to deny.  People just found a way to circumvent the ban by removing some of the banned features or placing the weapons in different configurations.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 13, 2009)

As I recall a Chinese made SKS was banned period.

Gotta love it.... Got any of those semi auto machine guns around????


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## TROY13 (Jan 13, 2009)

Norinco is a must have. I wonder how many gun sheets there are on a 39.99 rifle(1980-1987)? Me and a couple buddies bought one and about 1000000000000 rds in 1982 for $75.00 dollars. We abused that gun for 4 months before it bite the dust. Those were the good ole days. The days when an 18 year old could buy a gun from Roses and go have a whole lotta fun with out somebody accusing us of having machine guns and preaching to us how we should be ashamed to own a gun.


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## Eddy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Great research Mike!


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## dchfm123 (Jan 13, 2009)

You all have missed my point.  They cannot take the guns from us without changing the constitution, which is so hard to that it is not even worth worring about.  The can put up higher restrictions which have been proven not to work.  There are always ways around them.


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## uga_fan (Jan 13, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Ya don't say?



Am I reading correctly on the crate that it is 5.45mm ammo?  It would be hard to buy ammo after an "potential" import ban when there are no domestic manufacturers of the round.  Just wait for those who did not heed the warning signs to whine about not being able to shoot their guns because they cannot find ammo to buy.  If I had the means, I would be buying by the crate as well.


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## walters (Jan 13, 2009)

*Ammo*

i can say this, running out buying all the ammo up is just pushing the prices up. just like when people run out and bought all the gas up..  this kinda reminds me when y2k happened every body in the state ran out and bought a generator, i ran a business where i have to use a generater every day, mine went out and guess what, i could not find one no where...


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## polaris30144 (Jan 14, 2009)

walters said:


> i can say this, running out buying all the ammo up is just pushing the prices up. just like when people run out and bought all the gas up..  this kinda reminds me when y2k happened every body in the state ran out and bought a generator, i ran a business where i have to use a generater every day, mine went out and guess what, i could not find one no where...



I agree that the panic buying is creating a consumer generated shortage and artificially inflating prices. It will self regulate in a year or so when all the chicken little's (The Sky Is Falling) start trying to get some of their money back. They all feel warm and fuzzy with their hordes of ammo now, but eventually they will have to convert some of it back to currency to pay bills or buy groceries and the prices will plummet when the glut of excess ammo hits the market. It has happened before and will happen again, just like the Y2K panic that was the biggest joke of the last century. Most of the people doing the panic buying probably can't afford to tie up hundreds or thousands of dollars being squirreled away for long term. Some are doing it with intentions of selling some at greatly inflated prices to turn a profit. Good luck, most will lose their hard earned money by holding it too long and demand will drop overnight as well as the prices. 

If people feel the need to have enough ammo to outfit a Third World Army to feel safe, all I can do is pray. I will not let panic determine whether I pay a bill or buy up a bunch of Ammo. I don't live my life under the "Doomsday" way of thinking. I will buy ammo when it is available at a good price as I always have, but I personally don't plan on getting into a firefight with an enemy so consequently my need for ammo is limited by my intended use for it, primarily hunting.


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## BookHound (Jan 14, 2009)

uga_fan said:


> Am I reading correctly on the crate that it is 5.45mm ammo?  It would be hard to buy ammo after an "potential" import ban when there are no domestic manufacturers of the round.  Just wait for those who did not heed the warning signs to whine about not being able to shoot their guns because they cannot find ammo to buy.  If I had the means, I would be buying by the crate as well.




YES!  That is 5.45 ammo.  Good catch.  

It is all for this little guy, which is a new S&W 5.45 caliber AR-15.  I had John Noveske cut the barrel down to 12.5" on it though.  When I get it setup the way I want I'll paint it.






Okay, Mr. Observant.    What do you notice different in that picture from most AR pictures?  If you guess right I'll let ya shoot a couple mags through this bad boy on me next time you are up this way.  

Mark


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## jbi1104 (Jan 14, 2009)

Do  I get to shoot it if I tell?


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## BookHound (Jan 14, 2009)

jbi1104 said:


> Do  I get to shoot it if I tell?



Sure thing!  Heck, you are closer by too!  LOL.


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## uga_fan (Jan 14, 2009)

BookHound said:


> YES!  That is 5.45 ammo.  Good catch.
> 
> It is all for this little guy, which is a new S&W 5.45 caliber AR-15.  I had John Noveske cut the barrel down to 12.5" on it though.  When I get it setup the way I want I'll paint it.
> 
> ...



Alex I believe the answer is: what is, you took the pic from the ejection port side so that the SN is not exposed?


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## DYI hunting (Jan 14, 2009)

I think the real question is, where is the cheapest place for 5.56 right now?


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## BookHound (Jan 14, 2009)

uga_fan said:


> Alex I believe the answer is: what is, you took the pic from the ejection port side so that the SN is not exposed?



Nah.  I'm not worried about showing SNs.

I left the safety (ambi on this gun) in the auto position by mistake.  A 5.45 AR is fun.  A 5.45 AR in full-auto is more funnererer.


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## LIB MR ducks (Jan 14, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> You all have missed my point.  They cannot take the guns from us without changing the constitution, which is so hard to that it is not even worth worring about.  The can put up higher restrictions which have been proven not to work.  There are always ways around them.



Dude please quit drinking the Kool-Aid!!!


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## GCJ (Jan 14, 2009)

*Cheaper Ammo*

At the shot show this past weekend, wholesale prices for ammunition were reduced by all major manufacturers.  The explanation was that the reduction was a reflection of the reduced cost of metals.  Unfortunately, most guns were up from $10 to $40 per unit.  Also, because some companies were reducing their work force, dealers were advised to expect longer waits for delivery of guns.


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## BookHound (Jan 14, 2009)

GCJ said:


> At the shot show this past weekend, wholesale prices for ammunition were reduced by all major manufacturers.  The explanation was that the reduction was a reflection of the reduced cost of metals.  Unfortunately, most guns were up from $10 to $40 per unit.  Also, because some companies were reducing their work force, dealers were advised to expect longer waits for delivery of guns.





Uh?  SHOT Show starts TOMORROW and goes through the weekend.


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## georgiaboy (Jan 14, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Nah.  I'm not worried about showing SNs.
> 
> I left the safety (ambi on this gun) in the auto position by mistake.  A 5.45 AR is fun.  A 5.45 AR in full-auto is more funnererer.



I saw it and I added 5 seconds for a procedural  .  I also noticed it is ambi. 
Do I get to shoot even though I am late?

I really just want to know how you like that upper.  The ammo is alot cheaper fo' sho'.


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## BookHound (Jan 14, 2009)

georgiaboy said:


> I saw it and I added 5 seconds for a procedural  .  I also noticed it is ambi and you have anti-walk pins.
> 
> Do I get to shoot even though I am late?
> 
> I really just want to know how you like that upper.  The ammo is alot cheaper fo' sho'.



You can shoot my stuff anytime you want, bro.

Take care.

I'm waiting for my house sitter buddy to get here then I'm off to SHOT!


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## georgiaboy (Jan 14, 2009)

BookHound said:


> You can shoot my stuff anytime you want, bro.
> 
> Take care.
> 
> I'm waiting for my house sitter buddy to get here then I'm off to SHOT!



Figured you would be packing for SHOT.  Have fun shooting an dmaybe we can all go shoot in a couple of weeks once duck season is over.


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## uga_fan (Jan 14, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Nah.  I'm not worried about showing SNs.
> 
> I left the safety (ambi on this gun) in the auto position by mistake.  A 5.45 AR is fun.  A 5.45 AR in full-auto is more funnererer.



Well, I did notice that the ambi-safety was in full-auto; however, since it seems that everything you own is full auto w/ a can, it did not seem odd. It is different than most b/c we only have semi-auto ar's.


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## GCJ (Jan 15, 2009)

*shot show*

I referred to the one sponsored by Ellet Bros in SC last week, and attended by nearly all major manufactures.


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## patriot15joe (Jan 17, 2009)

dchfm123;3047119. 
Obama will never be able to take away our guns.  Restrictions yes and we have dealt with that before.  There are ways around them and you may just have to spend a bit more.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I think you need to go back and read history, look at all the things that happend because people said they wouldnt....First there will be restrictions, then what? keep sitting back and telling yourself that its never going to happen, and one day you will be telling your kids the stories about what it was like to shoot a gun.


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## patriot15joe (Jan 17, 2009)

*!*



dchfm123 said:


> You all have missed my point.  They cannot take the guns from us without changing the constitution, which is so hard to that it is not even worth worring about.  The can put up higher restrictions which have been proven not to work.  There are always ways around them.




one word AMENDMENT!  here is history lesson for you...this one happened here in the United States incase your 4th grade history teacher didnt cover this one for you...

Prohibition is the period from 1920 to 1933, during which the sale, manufacture, and transportation of alcohol for consumption were banned nationally as mandated in the Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Following significant pressure on lawmakers as a result of the temperance movement, the United States Senate proposed the Eighteenth Amendment on December 18, 1917. The 18th Amendment was certified as ratified on January 16, 1919, having been approved by 36 states, and went into effect on January 16, 1920. Some state legislatures had already enacted statewide prohibition prior to the ratification of the Eighteenth Amendment.

now i dont know about you but i think we are already seeing the first stages of this now with our guns...cant happen?


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## oldman 45 (Jan 18, 2009)

I was at Outdoor World in Duluth yesterday and they had plenty of ammo.


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## siberian1 (Jan 19, 2009)

I dont want to spend more.  Im tired of user fees and taxes.  I want less government and more personal Freedom!!


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## leoparddog (Jan 20, 2009)

I wonder if dchfm123 is still reading this thread...probably not..

But just in case...the anti-gun/gun control bills have already started...

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=290646


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## Nimrod71 (Jan 28, 2009)

Bulk 22's are hard to come by now.  Everyone I know is buying all they can find.  I do.  The big question is how long will be able to purchase large amounts of ammo.  I as well as all my friends are buying all the ammo they can aford to buy.  All the major distributors are out of bulk type cheap ammo, or back ordered.  I can't find the 20,000 primers I need or the 20,000 bullets either.  Every place I have called says the same thing, sorry we are out, but we can put you on back order.  Ammo companies are turning it out as fast as they can, we are just buying faster than they can make it.  This shows the gun loving and a lot of the general population of this county are concerned with their safety.  I have a number of friends in law enforcement all have advised to purchase all you can, be prepared.  Lawlessness is on the rise, the prisons are full, they can't lock up all the criminals.  The courts turn them out as fast as the law can catch them.


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## Highintheshoulder (Jan 29, 2009)

bat said:


>


 Im with you Bat.


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## whitworth (Jan 29, 2009)

*Ammunition*

is about the only hot selling item in this recession.  

Some will have to move all that ammunition after the house foreclosure.


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## wildcatt (Feb 5, 2009)

*shortage*

its shortage all over the country.and companies making reloading equipment are going as fast as they can.the gun companies making AR15s are back ordered for months.
Bush stopped the importation of NORICO products because of a shipment of SKS that were full auto.any guns that are targeted because you dont think any one should have them can turn into a ban on all.the 1934 machine gun TAX was not intended as a ban,but $200 was a lot of money in those days.I made .50 an hr in 1940 in a machine shop.the tax has now morphed into a ban per say.no new.
and pre WW2 many high schools had rifle clubs and supplied rifles and ammo.It was a program of the DCM.and the NRA.I am probly older than any one here,and was an NRA member in 1939.


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## georgiaboy (Feb 5, 2009)

wildcatt said:


> I am probly older than any one here,and was an NRA member in 1939.




That is an awesome thing Wildcatt.  I bet you mis the old days.  I am glad you are a member here.


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## ultramag (Feb 5, 2009)

dchfm123 said:


> yeah there are a lot of tards buyin ammo like crazy because they think the worlds end is near now that Obama is president.  I pity them.



I pity you


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## elfiii (Feb 10, 2009)

Ammo is not the issue right now. HiCap mags are what folks need to be buying. There will be plenty of ammo once everybody gets over the scare, but 30 rd magazines will more than likely, once again, be a thing of the past.


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## georgiaboy (Feb 10, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Ammo is not the issue right now. HiCap mags are what folks need to be buying. There will be plenty of ammo once everybody gets over the scare, but 30 rd magazines will more than likely, once again, be a thing of the past.



Shhhhh!  I'm not done yet...


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## redlevel (Feb 10, 2009)

elfiii said:


> Ammo is not the issue right now. HiCap mags are what folks need to be buying. There will be plenty of ammo once everybody gets over the scare, but 30 rd magazines will more than likely, once again, be a thing of the past.



You remember the old westerns, and some of the later ones like "Josey Wales,"  where the hero kept up a decent volume of fire by letting his wife and children load three or four muzzle loaders for him?    That's my plan--three or more SKS carbines with plenty of 10 round stripper clips and the women folks loading them for me.  As an old deputy I used to work with used to say, "I might not hit anything, but I'll keep up enough racket to keep them from stumbling over me!"


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## DOCO Hunter (Feb 11, 2009)

No way will the people of this country ever stand for having their guns taken away. You talk about starting up some mess.


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## whchunter (Mar 31, 2009)

*Still no 22 ammo*

I still haven't been able to find any, any that is without paying twice what it's worth. I ordered 2500 rounds from Sportsman Guide the first of January and still haven't received. Backorder after backorder.  Checked the local Super Walmart and they have only received 2 orders since December. I'd like to send a email to the manufacturers and ask why they aren't sending any out. Anybody know the names of major 22 ammo manufacturer?


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## elfiii (Mar 31, 2009)

whchunter said:


> I still haven't been able to find any, any that is without paying twice what it's worth. I ordered 2500 rounds from Sportsman Guide the first of January and still haven't received. Backorder after backorder.  Checked the local Super Walmart and they have only received 2 orders since December. I'd like to send a email to the manufacturers and ask why they aren't sending any out. Anybody know the names of major 22 ammo manufacturer?



They are sending out all they can make. They just can't make enough to satisfy demand right now.


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## oldman 45 (Apr 3, 2009)

Why dont folks stick to the traditional hunting weapons and leave all that military crap alone, the more they get the more the government will pursue pushing us around


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## Cadcom (Apr 3, 2009)

Why doesn't the Goverment leave us LAW ABIDING citizens alone?
I own a .223 rifle, and a .45 cal pistol among others - all legal and well within the law for now. Does this put me on some Gov't watch list? How traditional should we fall back to? .45-70 sharps? Maybe .30-06 M2 ball or .50 cal muskets? These were all considered MILITARY weapons at one time or another. Do we just give up and use snares and traps? I don't think so....


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