# Central Message of Christianity



## bullethead (Jan 30, 2014)

I see this getting thrown around a lot but I do not see the same answer given by different people. I did a quick search only to find another 30 different answers.

What IS the Central Message of Christianity?


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## gordon 2 (Jan 30, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I see this getting thrown around a lot but I do not see the same answer given by different people. I did a quick search only to find another 30 different answers.
> 
> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?



The Good News or redemption. Or the idea that man has fallen out of Grace to such an extent that the divine must intervene directly to restore the purpose of creation  (the purpose of your chemistry) itself. Or it is the idea that the affairs of man left to the chemical world and the lessons learned from it is not sufficient for man and that man will, has and could dehumanize himself. It is the idea that phenomena outside of the chemical soup must "save" the soup from itself and that  left to itself the soup is destined to death by the friction of the elements of itself.


The ideas that man has a tutor outside of base natures is the premise of Christianity. Reason can be given or applied to both this tutor and base nature. That man gives his  undue reasoning and obtains  false moral edicts from base nature must be remedied by a tutor outside of it. And that is what Christianity restores man to or what it deems a proper balance and the designed purpose of man and all of creation.

Although reason is natural to man, it cannot be wholesome without the contemplation of life outside of itself in order to achieve a correct perspective in general.

My .02cents. in atheistanese I hope.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 30, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> The Good News or redemption.


Could you briefly explain your view of redemption? While we are at it, the good news?


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## bullethead (Jan 30, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> The Good News or redemption. Or the idea that man has fallen out of Grace to such an extent that the divine must intervene directly to restore the purpose of creation  (the purpose of your chemistry) itself.



That is a few "or's" for a Central Message


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 30, 2014)

G2 said it a little bit more elegant than I could have.  I think John 3:16 - 18 offers the best summation possible.

“For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.”


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 30, 2014)

The Good News is the Central Message.


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## JB0704 (Jan 30, 2014)

Grace.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 30, 2014)

bullethead said:


> That is a few "or's" for a Central Message




Or in these cases are not opposites but similies... example... ice cream or frozen milk fat.

I'm not very articulate I know... I was sick two months in grade 3 or 4 and had to skip school for a few weeks. I missed out on alot and am still lost why anyone would care what 6x8 might make? ( Plywood comes in 4x8 sheets what's more to know?) !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've always been behind in expository writing as well... Peace bros. lOL


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## centerpin fan (Jan 30, 2014)

bullethead said:


> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?



_Turn or burn, sodomites! _







Just kiddin'. 


It's John 3:16.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 30, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## vowell462 (Jan 30, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This actually made me laugh out loud.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 30, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bullethead (Jan 30, 2014)

Well so far this thread has proven to follow what I found out while searching the 'net........ask a bunch of different Christians and get a bunch of different answers.
While there are certainly messages there does not seem to be ONE clear one that is THE central message.


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## bullethead (Jan 30, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The funny/sad part is that outside of Christianity many people do think the message is Believe or Burn.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 30, 2014)

bullethead said:


> The funny/sad part is that outside of Christianity many people do think the message is Believe or Burn.


If you remove all the sugar coating isn't that what you are left with?


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## 660griz (Jan 30, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> If you remove all the sugar coating isn't that what you are left with?



Yep. That is the central message of Christianity.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 30, 2014)

I think the responses by the believers are synonymous.


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## 660griz (Jan 30, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I think the responses by the believers are synonymous.



Turn or burn, sodomites?


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 30, 2014)

Yip.  I'm done.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 30, 2014)

bullethead said:


> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?


Christ


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## drippin' rock (Jan 30, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> Christ



Same thing as turn or burn, just usually framed nicer.


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## Four (Jan 31, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> G2 said it a little bit more elegant than I could have.  I think John 3:16 - 18 offers the best summation possible.
> 
> “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.”



TL;DR The central message of Christianity is human sacrifice... or just sacrifice if jesus isnt considered human.


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## stringmusic (Jan 31, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Well so far this thread has proven to follow what I found out while searching the 'net........ask a bunch of different Christians and get a bunch of different answers.


e pluribus unum



> While there are certainly messages there does not seem to be ONE clear one that is THE central message.



There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.


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## stringmusic (Jan 31, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> If you remove all the sugar coating isn't that what you are left with?





660griz said:


> Yep. That is the central message of Christianity.





drippin' rock said:


> Same thing as turn or burn, just usually framed nicer.





SemperFiDawg said:


> G2 said it a little bit more elegant than I could have.  I think John 3:16 - 18 offers the best summation possible.
> 
> “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.”



It's more like burn or turn.

Either way, I imagine physical pain will be the "easiest" part of He11.


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## 660griz (Jan 31, 2014)

> There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.





> ...but anyone who does not believe is already condemned





> It's more like burn or turn.



I believe MOST of us are in agreement here. Still puzzles me why that would upset some Christians. Very strange.


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## stringmusic (Jan 31, 2014)

660griz said:


> I believe MOST of us are in agreement here. Still puzzles me why that would upset some Christians. Very strange.



Why what would upset some Christians?


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## 660griz (Jan 31, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> Why what would upset some Christians?



Turn or burn, burn or turn. Whatever.


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## warmouth (Feb 1, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I see this getting thrown around a lot but I do not see the same answer given by different people. I did a quick search only to find another 30 different answers.
> 
> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?



Ive only seen this opening post, but for me, there is only one message period. Ive studied for many years searching for answers and have found 1 single message through it all. Christ came to seek out that which was lost. To make a visual, He is the Sheperd of the flock. The flock scatters and wanders without a sheperd. He comes to bring them back because they were His from the beginning.


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## warmouth (Feb 1, 2014)

660griz said:


> I believe MOST of us are in agreement here. Still puzzles me why that would upset some Christians. Very strange.


For the record, I dont agree that John 3:16 is the central theme. I believe that is the number 1 most out of context used verse in all of scripture. If the entirety of John 3 is read, its easy to see it is constantly used out of context.


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## Ruger#3 (Feb 1, 2014)

The good news;

Jesus' death fulfilled part of the plan to atone for the sin of the human race, to pay the price of our sin so we don’t have to (Isaiah 53:5).


5 -But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 1, 2014)

> There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.





> For the record, I dont agree that John 3:16 is the central theme


String meet Warmouth


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## warmouth (Feb 1, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> String meet Warmouth



Lol. Im very slow Walt. What do you mean?


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## centerpin fan (Feb 1, 2014)

warmouth said:


> Lol. Im very slow Walt. What do you mean?



Read the first quote in post 31 again.


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## stringmusic (Feb 3, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> String meet Warmouth



LOL, that's funny.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 3, 2014)

So as a part of God's grace in John 3:16, he gave us his son. 
What does that mean, that God gave or delievered his son?
Where in that verse does that mean his death? I'm not saying it isn't referring to the death of Jesus but can we tell from this one verse what it means. Didn't Jesus forgive people before his death? Just exploring what believing in Jesus means.

What about adding these  two verses with verse 16?

20"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."


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## stringmusic (Feb 3, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> String meet Warmouth


While it is still funny, reading back over warmouth's post, I don't see how what he posted.....


warmouth said:


> Ive only seen this opening post, but for me, there is only one message period. Ive studied for many years searching for answers and have found 1 single message through it all. Christ came to seek out that which was lost. To make a visual, He is the Sheperd of the flock. The flock scatters and wanders without a sheperd. He comes to bring them back because they were His from the beginning.


.... is any different than John 3:16-18



			
				God said:
			
		

> 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 3, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> String meet Warmouth



Epic


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 3, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> Epic



Man, I'm slow, it just hit me.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 3, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> While it is still funny, reading back over warmouth's post, I don't see how what he posted.....
> 
> .... is any different than John 3:16-18


Now that you've met maybe he will chime in and discuss.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 3, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I see this getting thrown around a lot but I do not see the same answer given by different people. I did a quick search only to find another 30 different answers.
> 
> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?



One might easily say "there is no central message of Christianity".  

Christianity isn't a message..... it's a response to a message....  a calling, an opportunity.

The message is of Jesus Christ.


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## bullethead (Feb 3, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> One might easily say "there is no central message of Christianity".
> 
> Christianity isn't a message..... it's a response to a message....  a calling, an opportunity.
> 
> The message is of Jesus Christ.



Now see that is an intelligent answer, but it is not an answer that many seem to agree with.


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## warmouth (Feb 3, 2014)

Hey guys. Sorry to just get back. Got pretty ill the last couple of days, and hopefully I can stay put.
"String meet warmouth".  I know you guys are going to think I'm ignorant, but I dont understand how when I said I dont agree with John 3:16 being universally taught as the central theme is up for discussion. While I will say the message is awesome, it is without doubt used out of context 9x out of 10. Thats all I was getting at. Maybe I've missed something?


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## JB0704 (Feb 3, 2014)

warmouth said:


> While I will say the message is awesome, it is without doubt used out of context 9x out of 10. Thats all I was getting at. Maybe I've missed something?



Can you explain  a little further?  I am only aware of the predes/free will split on what 'world' means.....and there is much debate on whether it is Jesus speaking or john's commentary.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 3, 2014)

warmouth said:


> Hey guys. Sorry to just get back. Got pretty ill the last couple of days, and hopefully I can stay put.
> "String meet warmouth".  I know you guys are going to think I'm ignorant, but I dont understand how when I said I dont agree with John 3:16 being universally taught as the central theme is up for discussion. While I will say the message is awesome, it is without doubt used out of context 9x out of 10. Thats all I was getting at. Maybe I've missed something?



String meet warmouth as in an analogy of fishing. Warmouth also being a Stumpknocker.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 3, 2014)

I think most Christians agree the central message is about Christ but what does that mean? 
I do know that it means Jesus died for my sins. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't know what that means. As a Christian, I should know what that means. I've never really questioned it, just accepting it as a part of my Southern Baptist indoctrination. It's one of those things I've heard my whole life to the point I haven't had to fully understand what it means. 
This is what I've been taught; every man has sinned. The wages of sin is death. Jesus died for our sins so that we will have everlasting life.
The other version was "if you believe Jesus died for your sins, you will spend eternity in  Heaven. If you don't believe, you will spend eternity in He11. The importance or reason Jesus had to die was never absorbed by my brain. 
Was he a blood sacrifice? Why was this important? Was his victory over death more important than his actual death? 
There are various beliefs on why Jesus had to die. I was never taught but one. Sacrifice for a wrathful God. At least I think that is what I was taught.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> One might easily say "there is no central message of Christianity".
> 
> Christianity isn't a message..... it's a response to a message....  a calling, an opportunity.
> 
> The message is of Jesus Christ.



String, meet Ronnie.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.



String said he had never met any Christian who wouldn't agree with 3:16.. Now he has been introduced to two.


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> String said he had never met any Christian who wouldn't agree with 3:16.. Now he has been introduced to two.



Usually the blanket is not large enough when blanket statement are made.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 4, 2014)

In John 3;16 God gave us his son. Was that a loan or do you see it as forever being with Jesus? 
Does it mean God gave us his son only as a sacrafice for sin in his death?


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> String said he had never met any Christian who wouldn't agree with 3:16.. Now he has been introduced to two.


Astute observation. 


bullethead said:


> Usually the blanket is not large enough when blanket statement are made.


At the time, the statement I made was true. I never said that Christians that don't believe John 3:16 to be the central message of Christianity were non existent, I simply stated that I had never heard or met anyone that didn't agree that it was.

As you know, you can find anything on the internet.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

I made the astute observation for those that were unable to observe it on their own.


You made the statement to imply that no Christian would ever disagree. You added that has ever existed.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe the problem is in the wording of the question.  If you ask Christians, “what one verse of scripture best summarizes Christianity”, most would say John 3:16.  As noted above, though, Christianity is not simply a message or a philosophy (despite what Bill O’Reilly says.)  It is all about the _Person_ of Jesus Christ.


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## 660griz (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> Maybe the problem is in the wording of the question.



Yep. That's it. Maybe the OP will change the question to match the answer.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

660griz said:


> Yep. That's it. Maybe the OP will change the question to match the answer.



Change the question to match THE answer? We've gotten like 6....


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> You made the statement to imply that no Christian would ever disagree. You added that has ever existed.


I also qualified my statement....


stringmusic said:


> There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

We all know what you meant. And it illustrated the point of the thread perfectly.


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## 660griz (Feb 4, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> Change the question to match THE answer? We've gotten like 6....



That was my attempt at humor.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> We all know what you meant. And it illustrated the point of the thread perfectly.



Which is what?


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

That even the Central Message of Christianity is unclear to christians.


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> Astute observation.
> 
> At the time, the statement I made was true. I never said that Christians that don't believe John 3:16 to be the central message of Christianity were non existent, I simply stated that I had never heard or met anyone that didn't agree that it was.
> 
> As you know, you can find anything on the internet.



Then you did not read the entire thread before you posted.

And this is what you posted:


stringmusic said:


> There is not one single Christian that I know or have ever met or have ever read or heard of or know that existed that wouldn't agree with the answer of John 3:16.


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Then you did not read the entire thread before you posted.


Who said something different besides Warmouth? I know that some others gave their own version of John 3:16 and didn't actually use that verse in their post, but I just went back and read over the post and I don't see where anyone has disagreed with John 3:16 as the answer. Even Warmouth said he disagreed and then gave an answer that was just the same as John 3:16.



> And this is what you posted:


I know exactly what I posted.


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> The Good News or redemption. Or the idea that man has fallen out of Grace to such an extent that the divine must intervene directly to restore the purpose of creation  (the purpose of your chemistry) itself. Or it is the idea that the affairs of man left to the chemical world and the lessons learned from it is not sufficient for man and that man will, has and could dehumanize himself. It is the idea that phenomena outside of the chemical soup must "save" the soup from itself and that  left to itself the soup is destined to death by the friction of the elements of itself.


Summed up in John 3:16-18



SemperFiDawg said:


> G2 said it a little bit more elegant than I could have.  I think John 3:16 - 18 offers the best summation possible.
> 
> “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.”


Again, John 3:16-18


Artfuldodger said:


> The Good News is the Central Message.


Again, John 3:16-18


JB0704 said:


> Grace.


Grace of God, through sending His one and only Son, sounds like John 3:16-18 to me.


centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep


SemperFiDawg said:


> I think the responses by the believers are synonymous.



As do I, because they are all synonymous.


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

You were fishing for inconsistent answers from the beginning of this thread so every non believer in here could sit back and say "look, even Christians can't agree, that means they're all wrong! ahahahaha"

The entire Christian worldview is based on Jesus Christ dying for our sins and giving us a path to God in Heaven. If a person does not believe that I would have a hard time believing they are a Christian in the first place. I would be like me saying I believe in gravity, but I don't believe gravity is what pulls people down to earth after they jump out of an airplane.


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> Summed up in John 3:16-18
> 
> 
> Again, John 3:16-18
> ...



"The Good News" is the Gospel......Gospel means "Good News"

So are you now telling us that out of the entire Gospel John 3:16-18 is what he meant?


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> You were fishing for inconsistent answers from the beginning of this thread so every non believer in here could sit back and say "look, even Christians can't agree, that means they're all wrong! ahahahaha"



Exactly.  Business as usual.


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> You were fishing for inconsistent answers from the beginning of this thread so every non believer in here could sit back and say "look, even Christians can't agree, that means they're all wrong! ahahahaha"
> 
> The entire Christian worldview is based on Jesus Christ dying for our sins and giving us a path to God in Heaven. If a person does not believe that I would have a hard time believing they are a Christian in the first place. I would be like me saying I believe in gravity, but I don't believe gravity is what pulls people down to earth after they jump out of an airplane.



After searching the internet and getting many different answers I wanted to check in here and see if it was any different. If I ask a question it is because I want to hear the answers.


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> Exactly.  Business as usual.



I am in no control of the answers given. If they are inconsistent it is not my fault.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> You were fishing for inconsistent answers from the beginning of this thread so every non believer in here could sit back and say "look, even Christians can't agree, that means they're all wrong! ahahahaha"



But remember, String, all atheists agree on everything – just like all agnostics agree, all Muslims agree, all Democrats agree, all physicists agree, all Justin Bieber fans agree ….


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I am in no control of the answers given. If they are inconsistent it is not my fault.



You asked a question that is open to interpretation.  Therefore, you get different interpretations.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> But remember, String, all atheists agree on everything – just like all agnostics agree, all Muslims agree, all Democrats agree, all physicists agree, all Justin Bieber fans agree ….



There's a reason why all of those things don't agree.... And it's the same reason why christians don't.......


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> But remember, String, all atheists agree on everything – just like all agnostics agree, all Muslims agree, all Democrats agree, all physicists agree, all Justin Bieber fans agree ….



No one said there was a Central Message for atheists or agnostics, Muslims or Democrats, physicists or Dweeber Fans. No one claimed they all agree...that is YOUR attempt to interject YOUR (SFD will like this) Red Herring into the discussion.

I have heard time after time about THE central message of Christianity and I did not ask about interpretations or opinions....I wanted to know IF there is ONE, WHAT is it?


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> You asked a question that is open to interpretation.  Therefore, you get different interpretations.



Then how come no one said there is no specific Central Message? Why wasn't your answer the Central Message of Christianity is a misleading term because the answer is open to interpretation?

Are you now disagreeing with String about John3:16-18 due to interpretation?


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Then how come no one said there is no specific Central Message? Why wasn't your answer the Central Message of Christianity is a misleading term because the answer is open to interpretation?
> 
> Are you now disagreeing with String about John3:16-18 due to interpretation?




Geez!  I was just making a simple point.  I wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquistion.


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## stringmusic (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> But remember, String, all atheists agree on everything – just like all agnostics agree, all Muslims agree, all Democrats agree, all physicists agree, all Justin Bieber fans agree ….


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## WaltL1 (Feb 4, 2014)

> You were fishing for inconsistent answers from the beginning of this thread so every non believer in here could sit back and say "look, even Christians can't agree, that means they're all wrong! ahahahaha"


Really String? You think non believers have to intentionally "fish" for Christians to disagree? Spend a minute or two upstairs reading some threads where there is no non believer participation whatsoever.


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## ambush80 (Feb 4, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Really String? You think non believers have to intentionally "fish" for Christians to disagree? Spend a minute or two upstairs reading some threads where there is no non believer participation whatsoever.



crickets......


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Really String? You think non believers have to intentionally "fish" for Christians to disagree? Spend a minute or two upstairs reading some threads where there is no non believer participation whatsoever.



You don’t have to fish for anybody to disagree.  People disagree ... on _everything_.  Why?  Because they're people.

If you feel the need to test my theory:

1)  Go to the Political Forum and start a thread titled “Chris Christie is the Republican savior”.

2)  Go to the Sports Forum and start a thread titled “Mark Richt is the best coach in college football”.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> You don’t have to fish for anybody to disagree.  People disagree ... on _everything_.  Why?  Because they're people.
> 
> If you feel the need to test my theory:
> 
> ...


Uh yeah, that was my point.


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## ambush80 (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> You don’t have to fish for anybody to disagree.  People disagree ... on _everything_.  Why?  Because they're people.
> 
> If you feel the need to test my theory:
> 
> ...



But for some reason, people who say "God told me so" get more credit.  Laughable or tragic?


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> You don’t have to fish for anybody to disagree.  People disagree ... on _everything_.  Why?  Because they're people.
> 
> If you feel the need to test my theory:
> 
> ...



I have never heard either 1 or 2 claim to have a "central message".

I figured if there is a central message to Christianity it would be well known within Christianity and possibly agreed upon by Christians.


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## Terminal Idiot (Feb 4, 2014)

Why would it be left so open ended or incomplete or unclear, that there could be difference of opinion?


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## JB0704 (Feb 4, 2014)

Terminal Idiot said:


> Why would it be left so open ended or incomplete or unclear, that there could be difference of opinion?



I don't see that it is.  Folks disagree on details, but, as String demonstrated, most agree on the central message.

Just about all of us said the same thing.  I have never met anybody who believed that the appointment of Stephen as a deacon was the central theme of Christianity.  The "big picture" is there.....in John 3:16.....I summarized it with "grace."


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## JB0704 (Feb 4, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> But for some reason, people who say "God told me so" get more credit.



By who?


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## bullethead (Feb 4, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> I don't see that it is.  Folks disagree on details, but, as String demonstrated, most agree on the central message.
> 
> Just about all of us said the same thing.  I have never met anybody who believed that the appointment of Stephen as a deacon was the central theme of Christianity.  The "big picture" is there.....in John 3:16.....I summarized it with "grace."



Grace is mentioned 170 times in the bible.....it covers a lot of verses.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe the central message of Christianity is Liberty. 

From the song "At Calvary"
Mercy there was great, and grace was free;
Pardon there was multiplied to me;
There my burdened soul found liberty,
    At Calvary.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe it's love. From there we can branch out into grace, faith, hope, obedience, trust, etc. I don't know if you can explain it with a basic verse or theme. 
Christ is the theme. That is the core. God's grace, Jesus' love, is where our liberty comes from. Within this basic concept we learn about love, forgiveness, faith, trust, obedience, hope, but mostly LOVE.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe it's forgiveness. God said we must forgive others if we want him to forgive us. The central message could be forgiveness.


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## warmouth (Feb 4, 2014)

It is alot about forgiveness and redemption Artful. You got it buddy. See, when I said I didnt agree with the John 3:16 as being the central theme, I wasnt saying it wasnt a part of it. However, what I was saying is that it is used out of context. I would recommend everyone read the entire context in every passage because picking this and that verse takes the meaning out if the message of what is being taught.
Another example, "behold, I stand at the door and knock". This doesnt mean that Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart to let Him in and save you. And this passage, as well as John 316 is consistantly used as a means of salvation, but they are both used out of context. John 316 makes so much more sense if you know the context and not the one verse.


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## warmouth (Feb 4, 2014)

Context is key. I feel this is why there are tens of thousands of denominations due to a persons interpretation of Scripture out of context. Think about this... when was pentacostalism started? Please dont say Acts 2. When did the denomination take off?


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## JB0704 (Feb 5, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Grace is mentioned 170 times in the bible.....it covers a lot of verses.



The room next to me is also called "yonder" by some.

It's the concept I was discussing.


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## JB0704 (Feb 5, 2014)

warmouth said:


> Another example, "behold, I stand at the door and knock". This doesnt mean that Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart to let Him in and save you.





Do you mean that not every part of the Bible was intended to take literally?!?!?!


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> Do you mean that not every part of the Bible was intended to take literally?!?!?!


I think the problem comes in when it has to be decided which parts are and which parts aren't. Seems to be a lot of disagreement on that. For that matter maybe none of it is literal and is just a story with a message as a lot of stories are?


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## stringmusic (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Really String? You think non believers have to intentionally "fish" for Christians to disagree? Spend a minute or two upstairs reading some threads where there is no non believer participation whatsoever.



Most of those threads are honest discussion with disagreement. Threads started down here for the sole purpose of watching Christians disagree so the antagonizing can begin is what I was getting at.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> Most of those threads are honest discussion with disagreement. Threads started down here for the sole purpose of watching Christians disagree so the antagonizing can begin is what I was getting at.


If I was a Christian and I thought that, I wouldn't participate. Simple.
And if you read the OP, the question was asked because there was ALREADY disagreement. It didn't have to be created by a non believer.
If a non believer shouldn't ask a question that Christians disagree on then a non believer wouldn't be able to ask a question at all.


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## stringmusic (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> If I was a Christian and I thought that, I wouldn't participate. Simple.
> And if you read the OP, the question was asked because there was ALREADY disagreement. It didn't have to be created by a non believer.
> If a non believer shouldn't ask a question that Christians disagree on then a non believer wouldn't be able to ask a question at all.



It's one of the reasons I don't participate as much in here as I used too. It kinda stinks too, cause this was my favorite forum on GON.

Anyway, this thread is what it is, no reason to keep on going on about it.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> If I was a Christian and I thought that, I wouldn't participate. Simple.
> And if you read the OP, the question was asked because there was ALREADY disagreement. It didn't have to be created by a non believer.
> If a non believer shouldn't ask a question that Christians disagree on then a non believer wouldn't be able to ask a question at all.



When I ask questions I know what I expect... without a doubt.... and that is somewhat entertaining. If it really is all it's cracked up to be, and I really wasn't just as "saved" as any of the christians here think they still are, then one of them will not meet my expectations and give me something that changes my mind or at least starts changing my mind. And I think that's why most of the nonbelievers are here.


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## 660griz (Feb 5, 2014)

Well, since it IS the AAA forum. We should all know what to expect.
The first A (me included) wants to show why we don't believe. This is rather easy. The second A wants to show why they don't believe but may expect something to change their mind at any moment. The third A wants to explain why they believe and perhaps convert some along the way. 
The reason why myself, and others, have questioned why the third A existed down here, knowing from previous dialogues with actual religious folks, is that the discussions become circular and lead to nothing but, in some cases, hurt feelings or animosity. 
That being said, for the most part, it is civil down here and the third A does provide much needed entertainment or, it probably would get pretty boring. Without the third A, all we would have is trying to get the second As to really commit.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 5, 2014)

I am always looking for someone who can provide an explanation that makes sense.  I often get accused of not listening to the answers given to me because I immediately follow up with another concept that seems to contradict the explanation given.  The reason I do this is because I've heard that explanation many, many times before but it doesn't make sense to me because of _____.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 5, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> Threads started down here for the sole purpose of watching Christians disagree so the antagonizing can begin ...



Yeah, pretty much.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

660griz said:


> Well, since it IS the AAA forum. We should all know what to expect.
> The first A (me included) wants to show why we don't believe. This is rather easy. The second A wants to show why they don't believe but may expect something to change their mind at any moment. The third A wants to explain why they believe and perhaps convert some along the way.
> The reason why myself, and others, have questioned why the third A existed down here, knowing from previous dialogues with actual religious folks, is that the discussions become circular and lead to nothing but, in some cases, hurt feelings or animosity.
> That being said, for the most part, it is civil down here and the third A does provide much needed entertainment or, it probably would get pretty boring. Without the third A, all we would have is trying to get the second As to really commit.





> The second A wants to show why they don't believe but may expect something to change their mind at any moment.


At any moment? As long as that "any moment" is God showing up and saying hello OR science in fact figures out how the earth got here, I would agree with you.


> all we would have is trying to get the second As to really commit.


See above.
I'm sort of stuck in the middle of Agnostic and Atheist.
While I absolutely believe "religions" and the Bible are 100% man made and man "inspired", that doesn't necessarily disprove a god and as of yet the big bang remains a theory. So for me personally I go with the title of Agnostic if I have to choose a title.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> It's one of the reasons I don't participate as much in here as I used too. It kinda stinks too, cause this was my favorite forum on GON.
> 
> Anyway, this thread is what it is, no reason to keep on going on about it.


Just a suggestion - 
You could accept that Christians disagree and that's not the fault of non believers.
You could accept that the debate process by definition is pointing out inconsistencies which disagreement is one of.
You could just continue to post what you believe and why, roll with the punches and throw some punches of your own.
I hope that is what you do!


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## 660griz (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> At any moment? As long as that "any moment" is God showing up and saying hello OR science in fact figures out how the earth got here, I would agree with you.
> See above.
> I'm sort of stuck in the middle of Agnostic and Atheist.
> While I absolutely believe "religions" and the Bible are 100% man made and man "inspired", that doesn't necessarily disprove a god and as of yet the big bang remains a theory. So for me personally I go with the title of Agnostic if I have to choose a title.



Look Christians. Even us heathens disagree. No big deal.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

660griz said:


> Look Christians. Even us heathens disagree. No big deal.


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## bullethead (Feb 5, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> The room next to me is also called "yonder" by some.
> 
> It's the concept I was discussing.



I wasn't sure how you narrowed Grace down to just one verse.
Grace is a very solid answer to describe what is present throughout much of the Bible. I liked your answer. I just don't know how it boiled down to to one verse representing Grace though.


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## JB0704 (Feb 5, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I just don't know how it boiled down to to one verse representing Grace though.



It doesn't, I think the theme is spread all across the NT. The context of 3:16 is where I was going with the last statement. I actually think John 3:17 is a better summary of GRace, but, it's all in context of the "big picture."


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## JB0704 (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> I think the problem comes in when it has to be decided which parts are and which parts aren't. Seems to be a lot of disagreement on that. For that matter maybe none of it is literal and is just a story with a message as a lot of stories are?



Yes, there is much debate to that.  But I don't think it gets in the way of the big picture except to a few.


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## stringmusic (Feb 5, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Just a suggestion -
> You could accept that Christians disagree and that's not the fault of non believers.


I accepted that a long time ago.


> You could accept that the debate process by definition is pointing out inconsistencies which disagreement is one of.


Yep, I accepted that a long time ago too.


> You could just continue to post what you believe and why, roll with the punches and throw some punches of your own.
> I hope that is what you do!


I've been doin that for years in here. Maybe I'm just tired of it for right now? I think we've discussed every theological and philosophical topic in here that there is to discuss.


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## bullethead (Feb 5, 2014)

String you have to stay in here to keep sharp, can't lose the edge man!


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> I accepted that a long time ago.
> 
> Yep, I accepted that a long time ago too.
> 
> I've been doin that for years in here. Maybe I'm just tired of it for right now? I think we've discussed every theological and philosophical topic in here that there is to discuss.


I cant debate that


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## stringmusic (Feb 5, 2014)

bullethead said:


> String you have to stay in here to keep sharp, can't lose the edge man!



I'll tell you one thing, I've learned a TON in here from all the regular posters(on both sides). That's the biggest reason I love this forum so much. I love having the kinds of discussion that nobody in the "real world" wants to have because it usually makes them uncomfortable.

It just seems like we've hashed out all the good topics. Maybe some new blood with join us and get us all back to some good debate.


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## 1gr8bldr (Feb 5, 2014)

660griz said:


> Look Christians. Even us heathens disagree. No big deal.


LOL, good one.... my wifes looking at me wondering why I burst out laughing.


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## JB0704 (Feb 5, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> It just seems like we've hashed out all the good topics. Maybe some new blood with join us and get us all back to some good debate.



There's a few newer posters running around here.  And Atlas is stirring some trouble a few floors up.  But that is a spin off of the political forum.

Wish you hung around more often.  I don't get to post as much as I like anymore because I am insanely busy at work these days.  I have a few threads I'd like to start, but not sure I'd be able to follow them properly.......


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## 660griz (Feb 6, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> I think we've discussed every theological and philosophical topic in here that there is to discuss.



I got one that has been bugging me. Why did God give man nipples?


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## stringmusic (Feb 6, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> There's a few newer posters running around here.  And Atlas is stirring some trouble a few floors up.  But that is a spin off of the political forum.
> 
> Wish you hung around more often.  I don't get to post as much as I like anymore because I am insanely busy at work these days.  I have a few threads I'd like to start, but not sure I'd be able to follow them properly.......





660griz said:


> I got one that has been bugging me. Why did God give man nipples?



I have no idea 

I hang fishin' lures from mine.


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## JB0704 (Feb 6, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> I hang fishin' lures from mine.


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## 660griz (Feb 6, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> I hang fishin' lures from mine.



When it is cold, they open the automatic doors looong before I get there.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 6, 2014)

I've got one for you String.  Was it Satan or just a regular old snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?  If it was Satan, then why did God punish the snake?


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 6, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I've got one for you String.  Was it Satan or just a regular old snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?  If it was Satan, then why did God punish the snake?



Good question.. He banished the snake to slither around in the dust without legs... It wasn't the snake's fault...


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## centerpin fan (Feb 6, 2014)

660griz said:


> I got one that has been bugging me. Why did God give man nipples?




More specifically, why did He give Batman nipples?


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## 660griz (Feb 6, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> More specifically, why did He give Batman nipples?
> 
> 
> View attachment 774463



Maybe he is a fisherman too.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 6, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I've got one for you String.  Was it Satan or just a regular old snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?  If it was Satan, then why did God punish the snake?



The Hebrew word for "serpent" is nachash. The word nachash can mean serpent and or shiny one. The word, as it appears in Genesis, is "ha-nachash" which means "The Shiny One".

It might have been some type of fallen angel that was an agent of satan and not the snakes of the earth. 
If it was a regular earthly snake then God punished all snakes for the sins of one. He does this or did this with cities and nations so that's possible to. 
We are all as humans under the influence of Adam's sin. In a way we are all being punished for something one man did. Maybe punishment is the wrong word but for whatever we are all suffering because the sins of one man.


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## stringmusic (Feb 6, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I've got one for you String.  Was it Satan or just a regular old snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?  If it was Satan, then why did God punish the snake?



I have no idea why God punished the snake.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 6, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> The Hebrew word for "serpent" is nachash. The word nachash can mean serpent and or shiny one. The word, as it appears in Genesis, is "ha-nachash" which means "The Shiny One".
> 
> It might have been some type of fallen angel that was an agent of satan and not the snakes of the earth.
> If it was a regular earthly snake then God punished all snakes for the sins of one. He does this or did this with cities and nations so that's possible to.
> We are all as humans under the influence of Adam's sin. In a way we are all being punished for something one man did. Maybe punishment is the wrong word but for whatever we are all suffering because the sins of one man.



I do realize we aren't being punished for Adam's sins but we do suffer the consequences of Adam's sins. Likewise all snakes are suffering the consequences of Eve's snake. 
Maybe the snake had free will, I don't really know either.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 6, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I do realize we aren't being punished for Adam's sins but we do suffer the consequences of Adam's sins. Likewise all snakes are suffering the consequences of Eve's snake.
> Maybe the snake had free will, I don't really know either.



Are you saying that you do not believe it was Satan, but an ordinary snake?  Can snakes sin?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 6, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> Are you saying that you do not believe it was Satan, but an ordinary snake?  Can snakes sin?



No, snakes can't sin, I was just thinking out loud. I can't really think of any reason why every snake born after that snake was punished. 
Even if it was an agent of Satan, has God ever punished Satan or his agents? He'll do that later.
If Satan is destined by God, why will he be punished?


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## warmouth (Feb 6, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> I think the problem comes in when it has to be decided which parts are and which parts aren't. Seems to be a lot of disagreement on that. For that matter maybe none of it is literal and is just a story with a message as a lot of stories are?



You bring up an awesome point Walt. I am a huge biblical hermeneutics guy, and to take certain things as literal is just preposterous. There is symbolism, metaphors, literalism, poetry, and figuratism throughout. I dont think it is left up to us, who study the bible, to interpret a passage. This is why I strongly urge people to use context because Scripture can interpret itself if used properly.


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## warmouth (Feb 6, 2014)

Wait, just saw the topic was done with. I found it enjoyable just to hear different views.


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## TripleXBullies (Feb 6, 2014)

stringmusic said:


> I have no idea why God punished the snake.



I can understand your view of the central message of christianity.... and as long as you have the central message, you're a christian, and the details don't really matter... but this is a detail about why the central message is necessary or why the central message matters at all. If this punishment thing doesn't make sense, then grace, the central message, doesn't make any sense either...


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## JFS (Jun 19, 2014)

HawgJawl said:


> I've got one for you String.  Was it Satan or just a regular old snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?  If it was Satan, then why did God punish the snake?



IMHO people don't think about this part of the puzzle enough.  Lots of debate about the veracity of the gospels, but if jesus was a redeemer or savior it only makes sense when you buy the fall as a predicate.  And yet the story of the fall is one of the hokiest creation fables out there.  Total house of cards.


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## drippin' rock (Jun 20, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> I can understand your view of the central message of christianity.... and as long as you have the central message, you're a christian, and the details don't really matter... but this is a detail about why the central message is necessary or why the central message matters at all. If this punishment thing doesn't make sense, then grace, the central message, doesn't make any sense either...




We as a species have encoded in our DNA a fear of snakes and other venomous things.  Makes sense to me that fear would incorporate itself into myth and legend.


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## drippin' rock (Jun 20, 2014)

JFS said:


> IMHO people don't think about this part of the puzzle enough.  Lots of debate about the veracity of the gospels, but if jesus was a redeemer or savior it only makes sense when you buy the fall as a predicate.  And yet the story of the fall is one of the hokiest creation fables out there.  Total house of cards.



And yet that House of Cards is made solid in the mind of the believer when they can rebut with, " We pitiful creatures cannot know the awesome mind of God or his motives.  Who are we to question?"


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## WaltL1 (Jun 20, 2014)

I know this is an old thread but since its revived -


> This is why I strongly urge people to use context because Scripture can interpret itself if used properly.


I'm not convinced about this whole context thing when discussing the Bible. Which is supposed to be the word of God.
The passages say exactly what they say. Many are very short, simple and to the point. But because they may contradict other passages or not go along with what we think, man goes looking for context to find out what they "really" mean.
Im not convinced that "context", when it comes to the Bible, isn't mans way of justifying what he already thinks or wants it to mean.
Gods word needs you to go looking for context? He didn't say what he meant? 
And isn't it possible that the passage you use to put a different passage into context might should be other way around?


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## bullethead (Jun 21, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> I know this is an old thread but since its revived -
> 
> I'm not convinced about this whole context thing when discussing the Bible. Which is supposed to be the word of God.
> The passages say exactly what they say. Many are very short, simple and to the point. But because they may contradict other passages or not go along with what we think, man goes looking for context to find out what they "really" mean.
> ...



It all has a very man-made feel to it. 
40,000 denominations just within Christianity cannot agree on what it means and every single individual within those denominations has a personal twist.

The work should fit the deity.


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## Mako22 (Jun 27, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> _Turn or burn, sodomites! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I ain't kidding because turn or burn is the central message. Accept Christ or you will burn.


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## Mako22 (Jun 27, 2014)

bullethead said:


> It all has a very man-made feel to it.
> 40,000 denominations just within Christianity cannot agree on what it means and every single individual within those denominations has a personal twist.
> 
> The work should fit the deity.



You cannot get any group of humans to agree on anything 100%


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## centerpin fan (Jun 27, 2014)

Woodsman69 said:


> I ain't kidding because turn or burn is the central message. Accept Christ or you will burn.



You old softie, you!


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 27, 2014)

Woodsman69 said:


> You cannot get any group of humans to agree on anything 100%



I disagree.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 27, 2014)

I just almost posted something.  But I deleted it.



That was close.    No No:


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## gordon 2 (Jun 28, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> I just almost posted something.  But I deleted it.
> 
> 
> 
> That was close.    No No:




  The thought that counts.  Yes. Yes.


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## EverGreen1231 (Aug 11, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I see this getting thrown around a lot but I do not see the same answer given by different people. I did a quick search only to find another 30 different answers.
> 
> What IS the Central Message of Christianity?



From what I've studied of the Bible; it seems, to me, that there isn't really a central message, but, rather, a response to a message. The way I see it, Christianity has many theme's folks like to call THE message, but there is no central one. Agreed: The main tenant of the Christian story is that of salvation; and, though uncomprehendingly important, it's not the only "message" contained in the Book. Who would I be if I said what "message" is and isn't the most important in my own faith?
To me, and this is how I see my faith; Christianity is a calling: Actually, more like a chance. A chance to choose life.
Jesus is the message. Christianity is the response. Nothing more.


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## Israel (Aug 11, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> Christ



yes


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 11, 2014)

My take on the central message is this. God gave us morals/laws/rules/commandments or whatever you want to call them to show us that we can never be righteous without following his plan.
His plan involved sending his son to die in place of our inabilities to follow his rules. 
We can either repent from thinking we can live good enough to please God and accept his plan to salvation which is his Son or suffer eternal death.
I don't understand all of the concepts of God needing this plan but I do understand the rules of his plan.


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