# Flat shooting load for 30-06



## n2huntin (Apr 29, 2010)

I am interested in wanting to play around with different loads in my 30-06 this summer, to try to find a good load for target shooting and eventually deer hunting next year(FL/GA).  I have been thinking about going real light 110-130 grains in an effort to maximize speed and get a flatter shooting round.  I am not real savy on ballistics, but I was looking at some charts, and found that my thinking may not be right.  I was seeing some loads with 160+ grain bullets that had trjectories just as flat as the ones with lighter bullets.  If I am trying to maximize my spped, and flatten my trajectory, am I on the right path going real light?  I am looking for any opinions, so bring them on, I would like to hear them.


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## tsknmcn (Apr 29, 2010)

Lighter isn't always flatter.  Down range, the lighter bullet will have less energy to maintain it's speed through the resistance of the air.  You will probably find bullets in the 150gr range will be the flattest shooting from a .30-06 giving you the the best balance of bullet speed and weight for down range energry and speed retention.

Really though, you probably won't see major differences in trajectory of any weight bullet until you pass the 350 yard mark.

That's my opinion.


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## DS7418 (Apr 29, 2010)

A 165gr Nosler AccuBond is my bullet of choice in my custom 30-06. It is plenty accurate out to 350yrds+ on a calm day


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## ScottD (Apr 29, 2010)

Flatter trajectory has nothing to do with accuracy.


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## n2huntin (Apr 29, 2010)

ScottD said:


> Flatter trajectory has nothing to do with accuracy.



Yeah, I understand that, but if I have the time to fine tune my load, I should be able to find a round that has a happy medium.  Something faster/flatter than a factory round, and something that shoots well out of my gun.  I am new to reloading, and have been reloading for my pistol, but am really interested in learing about customizing loads to get maximum performance out of my rifle.


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## majg1234 (Apr 29, 2010)

Tinker around with 150-165 gr loads....start reading and try some different powders and bullets for your rifle my 700 likes 165 hornady with IMR 3031,i get nearly 300win mag velocity and it is accurate less than MOA @150yds,each rifle will have a "sweet load" find it...faster is not always more accurate,sometimes it is...you'll just have to find yours


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## tas6691 (May 1, 2010)

Try Varget powder with 150 or 165 grain bullets. I have found Varget to be a good choice in 308 and 30-06(and 250 Savage).


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## Apex Predator (May 1, 2010)

Look for the bullet with the highest ballistic coeffecient and you will have the flattest trajectory.  I'm pretty sure these will be in the 162-165 grain range in .30 cal.


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## Rob62 (May 1, 2010)

Anything generally lighter than 150 grains will not shoot as accurately as those bullets in the 150-180 grain range.  There are exceptions of course, but that has been my experience in over 30 years of reloading.

As has previously been suggested, I would start with 165 grain bullets.  The Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are scarily accurate and a great thin skinned game bullet as well.

The old reliable H4895 or IMR 4895 has worked well for me as a powder.

Here's a couple of good read about the '06.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209996/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_9_51/ai_n14816184/

Rob


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## Jimmyp (May 2, 2010)

n2huntin said:


> I am interested in wanting to play around with different loads in my 30-06 this summer, to try to find a good load for target shooting and eventually deer hunting next year(FL/GA).  I have been thinking about going real light 110-130 grains in an effort to maximize speed and get a flatter shooting round.  I am not real savy on ballistics, but I was looking at some charts, and found that my thinking may not be right.  I was seeing some loads with 160+ grain bullets that had trjectories just as flat as the ones with lighter bullets.  If I am trying to maximize my spped, and flatten my trajectory, am I on the right path going real light?  I am looking for any opinions, so bring them on, I would like to hear them.



in a .308 I have been very happy with the Barnes 130 grain TTSX at just over 3000FPS. Take a look at the BC for this bullet, again SD does not matter regards any deer you would shoot with it as its a monolithic bullet, it simply outpenetrates standard cup and core bullets.


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## chuckdog (May 2, 2010)

*Light Bullets*

Whitetail are not tough to kill, but I consider bullet construction more important than others may. If you zip a 125 grain 30 cal bullet in excess of 3k fps, odds are it's not going to penetrate as you've become accustomed to with your 06'. The old saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch" hold true with this too. A Barnes or similar bullet would probably do ok. I don't know due to not having any real world experience with them though. I load some 125 Nosler BT in .308 for youth loads @ 2350 fps. The kids have taken deer at 130 yds with very good performance. I know what the ballistic tips do when I've pushed them to the top end of what a .308 will do. They turn to sand for me.  A 165 grain boat tail bullet has always seemed to be the bullet of choice for me in the 06' for the flat shooting and good performance once it arrives. Just my $.02 worth. I hope it helps. Good luck with your experimentation. It's a good excuse to shoot ain't it?


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## oneholer (May 4, 2010)

majg1234 said:


> Tinker around with 150-165 gr loads....start reading and try some different powders and bullets for your rifle my 700 likes 165 hornady with IMR 3031,i get nearly 300win mag velocity and it is accurate less than MOA @150yds,each rifle will have a "sweet load" find it...faster is not always more accurate,sometimes it is...you'll just have to find yours



Me thinks you are dreaming on coming close to .300 Win Mag velocities with a 165gr. 2800fps is more like it compared to 3200 -3300fps in a .300 Win Mag.


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## majg1234 (May 11, 2010)

3100-3150 on a oehler chronograph,military brass... close enough to 300winmag for me


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## Mrtoadswildride (May 17, 2010)

If you want to shoot lighter bullets go with a .243 or 7mm.  ,   the 30-06 is best with 150gr or higher


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## rayjay (May 17, 2010)

I am shooting my 30BR in Riverbend's group matches this year and it is proving to be very competitive. If Scott was shooting this rifle he would be unbeatable.

The 30BR could be called a shortened 30/06 since it has the same case head diameter. It is actually made from necked up 6mmBR Lapua brass. I am using 33.8 gr of H4198 with a custom 112gr flatbase bullet made by Ronnie Cheek in TX. The velocity is about 2900 to 2950 FPS.

For a 100 to 200 yd target round in 30 cal it's about unbeatable.  One of the reasons you can't expect the same results from an 06 is the twist. We are using a real slow 17 to 18 twist whereas you probably have a 10 or 12 twist. Also, you won't be able to get anywhere near the lands with an 06 chamber. 

I would recommend not trying for extreme velocity. Experiment from about 2700 to 3000.  The reason for the lowend suggestion is to try and replicate the same rpm that the 30BR has. Try some Berger 110 target bullets. 

If you can afford it buy a 36 power scope for target shooting and make at least 4 simple windflags so you can try and shoot in one condition. 

For long range shooting go with the heavier boat tails.

Good luck


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## Jimmyp (May 17, 2010)

it is said that an .243 cal 85 grain X bullet has a hard time staying in even a moose.  Light for caliber and fast with a cup and core is not a good thing.  They work best at 2700 or so FPS, on the other hand folks are shooting the 110 TSX bullets out of .270WSM's with good effect at near 3500FPS.  The monolithic all copper bullets change things up a bit. If you insist on light and fast use a nosler partition, an x or any of the new monolithic bullets being offered.  A BT at +3000 may not be such a good idea.  Me I want to penetrate rather than blow up on the surface....


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## miles58 (May 17, 2010)

Speed does a couple things for you.

It makes the time of flight shorter That's important out to maybe 300 yards for me.  It does make the shot a little flatter out to about 300 also.  Speed makes for more cavitation when you hit Bambi.  That makes a better hole.

If you use a tough bullet like the Barnes TTSX 130, That bullet wil penetrate all the way through a Georgia deer virtually every single time from any angle.  

I use them and find I get the best accuracy out of them running about 3150-3200 with 53.5 or so Varget pushing them.  150s with Varget tend to run right on 2900 with 51.5 or so of Varget for best accuracy.  Both have a little room at the top to go faster, but they tend to open the groups a little when you push for that last little bit.

I've seen a dozen plus deer hit with Barnes 130s (counting 4 with a .270)  none needed a second dose.  None went anywhere after getting whacked, a jump or two and that's about it.  Most went straight down.  The 150s work just the same.

Dave


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## Ga-Bullet (May 17, 2010)

I've Been Running The 110Gr TSSX Out one Of My 300 Weatherby's. They are as Tough as You'll Find, In a Light Bullet. I've Run Them Up Around 4000Fps and Their Still Together. I Haven't Got to poke a Hole in anything with them Yet, But I think They'll Be No Problem On Whitetails..


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## oneholer (May 20, 2010)

majg1234 said:


> 3100-3150 on a oehler chronograph,military brass... close enough to 300winmag for me



That exceeds 30'06 Ackley Improved velocities by 200fps... Buy a new chrony!


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## majg1234 (May 20, 2010)

donations accepted!!!! BTW they were run on another chrony too with about the same result


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## bowbuck (May 20, 2010)

After reading through this post my only thought is that a light bullet going real fast, goes through a whitetail real fast too.  For years I've heard people say they shot a nice buck with their .300 mags and it ran off and they did or didn't find it.  The reason, a fast .30 grain bullet didn't have time to expand flying through the light skinned deer. You shouldn't have to look for a deer shot with a .300 caliber rifle with the right bullet.   I personally like 180-220 gr. bullets for my .300.  I want em to feel what my .300 is packing.  For varmit shooting etc. a 110-130 gr. bullet hauling the mail and shooting flat would be fun no doubt. Just don't over think killing a little ole GA whitetail. 150-200 gr. pill out of the 30-06 will take care of buisness.  Remember a bullet going 2500 feet per second is going a little shy of half a mile in less than a second.  How much can 200 fps really mean inside of that distance?


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## germag (May 21, 2010)

There's no such thing as a "flat shooting rifle". Every bullet is headed for the ground as soon as it leaves the tube. You loft it in the air to give it more time before gravity ultimately pulls it to the ground. The slower it's moving, the more you loft it to get it to a given distance. As long as it's still traveling at supersonic speeds, it should have plenty of energy to kill a whitetail....they just aren't that tough. A 175 grain SMK launched by a .308 Win at 2600 fps is still above the speed of sound at 1,000 yards (that's not a recommendation to use SMKs for hunting). 

A heavier bullet with a good BC will be less affected by drag and the influence of the wind and will retain momentum better at longer ranges. A light bullet will begin to lose speed rapidly at distance and will  be more affected by the wind. 

Shooting at a deer at distances beyond 400 yards is another subject entirely and I believe that ethics comes into play. There are some people that can consistently hit a deer-sized target at distances far greater than that, but you have to keep in mind that at 500 yards the flight time is over a second.....watch a deer and see how much can happen in the ~2  seconds that elapses from the time you decide to pull the trigger to impact at 500 yards.....maybe nothing, maybe the deer moves enough that the shot is a wounding but not fatal shot or (hopefully) a clean miss. I personally wouldn't shoot at one beyond 400 yards even though I can hit targets smaller than a deer at 1k.....but that's my choice and I'm not going to profess to be expert enough to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do. We all know what's ethical and what's not....conscience should guide. The way I look at it is this.....if I want to prove what a great shot I am, I'll go to the range and prove it on targets. When I'm shooting at a deer, I'll make sure I kill it quickly and humanely.


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## miles58 (May 21, 2010)

bowbuck said:


> After reading through this post my only thought is that a light bullet going real fast, goes through a whitetail real fast too.  For years I've heard people say they shot a nice buck with their .300 mags and it ran off and they did or didn't find it.  The reason, a fast .30 grain bullet didn't have time to expand flying through the light skinned deer. You shouldn't have to look for a deer shot with a .300 caliber rifle with the right bullet.   I personally like 180-220 gr. bullets for my .300.  I want em to feel what my .300 is packing.  For varmit shooting etc. a 110-130 gr. bullet hauling the mail and shooting flat would be fun no doubt. Just don't over think killing a little ole GA whitetail. 150-200 gr. pill out of the 30-06 will take care of buisness.  Remember a bullet going 2500 feet per second is going a little shy of half a mile in less than a second.  How much can 200 fps really mean inside of that distance?[/QUOTE
> 
> Bullets never go through a deer too fast to expand.  Anyone who claims that is so does not know what they are talking about.  Second, I have seen many, many deer that ran off ofter being hit with 180 grain 30-06 ammo.  Bullet construction and shot placement matter much more than bullet size.
> 
> ...


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## oneholer (May 21, 2010)

majg1234 said:


> donations accepted!!!! BTW they were run on another chrony too with about the same result



Please give us your magic formula that makes a 30'06 with a 165gr bullet achieve 3100-3150fps muzzle velocity. I wanna try and load it myself and try it.


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## oneholer (May 21, 2010)

48grs of IMR3031 in a 26 inch barrel with a 10 Twist gives 2800fps with a 165gr bullet.


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## Johnbob_3 (May 24, 2010)

I have been shooting 165 grain Hornady spire-point bullets (not boat-tailed) pushed by 52 grains of IMR4895 in my Winchester Model 70 Westerner since 1983.  This combination is booked at 2,880 fps muzzle velocity and has been used by my uncle since the 1960s with excellent results.  The only deer I have lost is really nice buck I gut shot at 350 yards.   I have taken over 40 whitetails with this gun and 2 antelope (one at 175 yds and one at 425 yds).  All animals solidly hit went down within 60 yds.  Interestingly, the one that went the farthest was a yearling doe that, when shot, had its front leg shattered and heart blown apart with a 4-5 inch exit wound and even made it through a 4-strand barbed wire fence 50 yds after being shot...now that deer had its adrenaline going before it crossed the creek and came by my stand, but it went a surprising distance with the damage done.  Even with the long antelope shot, the animal dropped where hit.  In fact, I placed my shots on the antelope (even more thin-skinned than a whitetail) such that the animals took hits a little high in the shoulder (low spine) and it anchored them, so I can't tell you how these animals may have run if they had been just lung shot.  I am plenty accurate on deer-sized game with this load even though it may not be the most flat-shooting out past 350 yds, but I have a bullet drop compensator on my scope that helps on the longer shots which I will take if the animal is not moving much at all.  This is an excellent load for whitetails as far as I am concerned and this summer as I reload some more, I will add boat-tails in the Hornady and compare them with the same weight Barnes to see how they shoot in my rifle.


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## oneholer (May 25, 2010)

Johnbob_3 said:


> I have been shooting 165 grain Hornady spire-point bullets (not boat-tailed) pushed by 52 grains of IMR4895 in my Winchester Model 70 Westerner since 1983.  This combination is booked at 2,880 fps muzzle velocity and has been used by my uncle since the 1960s with excellent results.  The only deer I have lost is really nice buck I gut shot at 350 yards.   I have taken over 40 whitetails with this gun and 2 antelope (one at 175 yds and one at 425 yds).  All animals solidly hit went down within 60 yds.  Interestingly, the one that went the farthest was a yearling doe that, when shot, had its front leg shattered and heart blown apart with a 4-5 inch exit wound and even made it through a 4-strand barbed wire fence 50 yds after being shot...now that deer had its adrenaline going before it crossed the creek and came by my stand, but it went a surprising distance with the damage done.  Even with the long antelope shot, the animal dropped where hit.  In fact, I placed my shots on the antelope (even more thin-skinned than a whitetail) such that the animals took hits a little high in the shoulder (low spine) and it anchored them, so I can't tell you how these animals may have run if they had been just lung shot.  I am plenty accurate on deer-sized game with this load even though it may not be the most flat-shooting out past 350 yds, but I have a bullet drop compensator on my scope that helps on the longer shots which I will take if the animal is not moving much at all.  This is an excellent load for whitetails as far as I am concerned and this summer as I reload some more, I will add boat-tails in the Hornady and compare them with the same weight Barnes to see how they shoot in my rifle.



48grs of IMR4895 is max charge in all the reloading manuals. Just thought i would share that with you.


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## Johnbob_3 (May 25, 2010)

I beg to differ with you on that issue a bit...while your manuals may list that charge as maximum, 49 grs is the recommended starting charge with a range up to 52 grs for 165 gr bullets for IMR4895 powder according to the IMR webpage.  Look here if you don't believe me --> http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp


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## oneholer (May 26, 2010)

Johnbob_3 said:


> I beg to differ with you on that issue a bit...while your manuals may list that charge as maximum, 49 grs is the recommended starting charge with a range up to 52 grs for 165 gr bullets for IMR4895 powder according to the IMR webpage.  Look here if you don't believe me --> http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp



Everyone's manuals list 48grs as max charge.......i cant understand why that site lists 52grs as max and 49grs as a starting load. Have powders changed that much in a couple years? I am going to call tomorrow and get to the bottom of this. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Just want people to be safe when reloading.


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## Johnbob_3 (May 27, 2010)

oneholer, I do appreciate your comment and earnest concern.  I wasn't trying to be obnoxious in the least (not that I think you perceived my response that way).  If I am accidentally looking for trouble, I would like to know it.  I have shot nearly 200 rounds of this recipe in my rifle with no ill effects that I am aware of other than a sore shoulder when I shoot 20 rounds or more.  Now that you mention it, I will check the manual in my RCBS Rockchucker set I just bought...let's see, it says...hmm, Speer Reloading Manual #14 Copyright April 2007 doesn't list IMR4895 in combination with 165 gr bullets!  However, for 150 gr bullets it shows 45.5 gr of powder to start and a max of 49.5 grs.  If you drop down to a 125 gr bullet, then it lists 48 grs as a start charge and 52 gr as maximum charge.  Here is something interesting - the last sentence of the introductory paragraph on the cartridge states, _*"The following data do not exceed the industry maximum average pressure of 50,000 CUP."*_  On the Hodgson page, the pressure for the load I use is listed as 57,200 PSI.  Now CUP and PSI are correlated with each other and one can convert them according to a formula (PSI = -17,902 + 1.516 x CUP), but there is where the difference lies in what we are discussing...a limit in the manuals that doesn't exceed "industry maximum average pressure of 50,000 CUP" and for the 30-06 50,000 CUP roughly equals 60,000 PSI.

Just goes to show that the internet may not be giving the best information, but on a corporate page you expect the best information.  

I am interested in what you find out.


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## germag (May 27, 2010)

There are other factors in play here. It's not just the bullet weight/powder combination. You also have to take into account bullet design and what primer was used to develop the load. Some primers create higher pressures than others, and things like the length of the bearing surface of the bullet also come into play.....all 165 grain bullets aren't created equal.


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## Johnbob_3 (May 27, 2010)

That is all so true germag, but I don't think any resources go into that kind of detail...assumptions/standardizations are made on barrel length for instance.  I have yet to find where the same bullet is listed with a number of different powders/primers/barrels/barrel lengths in my Speer manual.  However, the Hodgson website does address various powders with the same bullet, but it is hardly comprehensive.


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## litlrandy (May 30, 2010)

My .02 worth...Before anything else, I had my Rem. ought 6 model 700 action bedded to see what the gun CAN do. I had some handloads 168gr. Sierra Matchking HP. 3 shot's @ 100yds all touching. Bought some 150gr Hornady GMX , for kiks, and they performed excellent. No complaints on the 9 pt. buck I took last season either, dropped right there. The hunt for the perfect bullet on paper and one that will do the job ethically on  medium sized game has been a pursuit I believe everyone has searched for. I'm done .....for now !


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## Johnbob_3 (May 31, 2010)

what was your recipe for powder litlrandy?


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## oneholer (Jun 1, 2010)

*Imr4895*

John, i called Hodgden today and they said when they bought out IMR they did testing and thats the data they came up with. He said it was safe pressures. I dunno, still would make me nervous to go 4grs over published data in the books. That is an awful fast burning powder for a 165gr bullet. You might check out this site as well    www.reloadersnest.com


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## Johnbob_3 (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks oneholer.  I'll check the link, but I think we still have a conundrum on the powder charge.  I know that load is safe in my gun - at least it has been for over 27 years.  Thanks for your persistence and concern.

Addendum:  that link shows a load for the 165 gr Hornady SPBT to be only 45 gr of IMR 4895 which gives a rather paultry 2,450 fps muzzle velocity (23.5 inch barrel) which is pretty slow for a .30-06.  Another recipe suggests for a 165 gr Nosler ballistic tip pushed with 47 gr of IMR 4895 at 2,710 fps out of the muzzle (24 inch barrel).

If I selected for .30-06 loads for 165 gr bullets I saw charges of 45, 46, 46 and 47 gr of powder whereas under 150 gr bullets I saw charges of 49, 49.5 and 52.5 gr of IMR 4895 powder.  Velocities varied from 2,450-2,710 fps for the 165 gr bullets and 2,845-3,000 fps for the 150 gr bullets.  So, clearly there is quite a range for IMR 4895 for 150-165 gr bullets and my load is not far from the upper range of those recipes, but as you have cautioned a bit high.  Thanks for your provision of an additional resource which I am going to add to mine.


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