# Help with diy put and take quail



## Borisvonf (Jan 31, 2021)

I live on 100 acres in southern greenville county South Carolina.  For the second year in a row quail suppliers, even ones that I preordered from, have run out of birds.  
the deer have wrecked my sunflowers with 2 different electric fence strategies and my wife won’t let me high fence it (Dove field is my front yard).  Even tried sesame last year but did not germinate and replanted milo as much for quail release as doves. 
I love watching the dogs work and hearing quail whistle. Also, I’m in my early 50s and semi retired so have time to do it right.  Please help me figure what I need to do raise, release and chase quail on my farm.  I have 1 acre in broomsedge and 3.5 in mix of cave in rock switchgrass and wildflowers.  My 8 acre dove field is an open book as far as replanting. I do want to avoid milo as I had to spray for sugar cane aphids and don’t want to spray pesticides.  I really like avoiding herbicides as well but don’t mind a little remedy to knock back sweet gums.  
also have 30 acres of open hardwood flood plain to release in as well. 
I have 2 Jonny houses already
planning to build a flight pen and don’t know what is better incubator and buying eggs or day olds.  I don’t want to reinvent the wheel here.  Would love to get some suggestions on how to make it work.  
thanks


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 31, 2021)

I thought about getting the wild bird seed that sells at Walmart. I’ve had it sprout and grow at bird feeders and the heads of it had seed. 
Anyway going to do it in a small spot.


----------



## spring (Jan 31, 2021)

Since the vast majority of any quail you release will be consumed in short order by predators, I'd avoid the work and expense to plant food plots for them. Why not just plant you some big blue stem and little blue stem and enjoy the hunt as much as possible for each bird release?  Less land preparation cost could mean more birds you could purchase and hunt....


----------



## pinus palustris (Jan 31, 2021)

I believe Tall Timbers Research Station had the survival pegged one time at less than 50% in 48 hrs! Without the learning from mama quail in the wild...
Remember...EVERYTHING loves to eat Quail *   (* ALso a TTRS saying!!)
Maybe spread some milo in the release area (in thickets if possible) so they are not having to move about so much and be vulnerable in their feeding.


----------



## Deplorable Birdhunter (Feb 1, 2021)

I have had fairly good success early releasing birds pre-season(Sept.-Oct) These birds survived and became semi-wild! The key is good habitat! They will not do well if the habitat is not right! Also the type of quail that you release is crucial! Early released birds need to be put out when they are young, no later than 12 weeks old and they need to be weather conditioned! Another important factor is that they(birds) need to be Northern Bobwhites and not the Jumbo Wisconsin strains. It can get expensive because of the high mortality rate! if you put 30 birds to a covey half or more will be caught but the ones that survive will be as close to a wild bird as you can get, if you use the right kind of birds that are young enough to still have some wild instincts! This has been my experience.


----------



## Borisvonf (Feb 1, 2021)

Thanks for the replies.  I realize I can’t establish a wild population and that mortality will be high.  I just want to have birds to shoot to 1) work the dogs 2) enjoy outdoors time with friends and their kids.  
Last week, I heard leftover birds from our put and take father son day.  Grabbed my stuff and walked out the backdoor to scratch out 4 birds with my old 3 legged draathar.   Was a great feeling.  Almost as much fun as watching my son make a double on the rise.   Trying to make this a more consistent event. 
I have spent about $4,000 per year on the dove field in fertilizer, diesel, time, seed, chemicals and wear and tear (I’m really good at breaking stuff in my rocky soil).   The results have been mediocre.  I have the equipment, time and limited budget (quit fixing the dove field) to make this happen.  Hoping to get more suggestions on what to plant, how to manage habitat to make it huntable and suggestions on raising quail myself as suppliers of birds have been unreliable for the last 2 years.   
I called the DNR quail habitat guy, and he said my farm was too small so he wouldn’t come out and consult - I get that I don’t fit his mission statement.  I’m not complaining; just letting you know what I have tried.   I wish I had 10,000 acres, but I don’t.  I have what I have and hoping to get free advice on what is possible from those that have had success and what to avoid from others’ failures as well.   
thanks


----------



## coachdoug87 (Feb 1, 2021)

If you are willing to drive a couple of hours to get birds, there are some good bird growers in North GA. PM me if you are interested and I will give you names and numbers. What you are doing is a fun way to enjoy your dogs. Most people don't have a huge track of land to support wild birds, but we can still have our dogs.


----------



## Borisvonf (Feb 1, 2021)

Thanks coach.  I am headed to Piedmont game birds in Clarksville ga tomorrow to pick up 100 birds.  3 1/2 hours round trip to get birds.   Hope the fly well.  Still want to have a better system for next year though.


----------



## trad bow (Feb 2, 2021)

I have access to a thirty acre field I turn six birds loose at a time. I do fairly well with that. I turn them all loose at same time then turn dog loose a hour later. Sometimes they group up and sometimes it is a singles type hunt. Dog enjoys it.


----------



## spring (Feb 2, 2021)

If you’re used to spending $4,000 per year on land prep, I still think you can come out way better off than planting a food plot for quail with a very short life span. Even on plantations that are covered up with wild birds, food plots for quail are a thing of the past. They’ve all figured out that discing in December and growing weeds is much more effective. Much cheaper, too.
Since you’ve got an annual $4,000 budget and you really want to feed the quail as needed that survive for a bit, buy a 3-point hitch spreader for about $600. Run it through your weed fields as you sling out some milo. You’ll be done. Use the leftover money to buy more quail to release.
Have fun!


----------



## coachdoug87 (Feb 2, 2021)

Borisvonf said:


> Thanks coach.  I am headed to Piedmont game birds in Clarksville ga tomorrow to pick up 100 birds.  3 1/2 hours round trip to get birds.   Hope the fly well.  Still want to have a better system for next year though.


You are getting your birds 5 minutes from my house,  They will fly well.


----------



## mecicon (Feb 2, 2021)

Lespedeza


----------



## spring (Feb 2, 2021)

Lespedeza can help somewhat with wild birds; not so sure about released. Here's an article on it. Per this study, quail would need to eat over 18,000 lespedeza seeds per day to make it thru the winter.  In this report, it also says:



> The human fixation on food led many well-meaning people in the early decades of quail recovery to believe that all that was necessary to quail recovery were grain food plots. And many times a goodhearted landowner set aside a ½ acre “patch” back next to a mature woodland or near a hay field, of something like corn, or milo.
> 
> Little islands of food popped up everywhere largely surrounded by a “sea” of useless cover for quail. And folks were mystified as to why “the quail never came back.”



Supplemental year-round feeding combined with habitat management for nesting, bugs, and escape cover is a pretty good recipe. I manage for quail year-round; not a planted patch on my place.

Shell’s Covert: A Quail Cannot Live on Lespedeza Alone


----------



## Permitchaser (Feb 2, 2021)

Deplorable Birdhunter said:


> I have had fairly good success early releasing birds pre-season(Sept.-Oct) These birds survived and became semi-wild! The key is good habitat! They will not do well if the habitat is not right! Also the type of quail that you release is crucial! Early released birds need to be put out when they are young, no later than 12 weeks old and they need to be weather conditioned! Another important factor is that they(birds) need to be Northern Bobwhites and not the Jumbo Wisconsin strains. It can get expensive because of the high mortality rate! if you put 30 birds to a covey half or more will be caught but the ones that survive will be as close to a wild bird as you can get, if you use the right kind of birds that are young enough to still have some wild instincts! This has been my experience.



I agree with most of what you said. You can get 2 day old birds via the post office. Put them in a heated, water, food then at 6 weeks move them to a flight pen with as little human contact you can. You can release them at 8 weeks. Keep plenty of scratch feed and cracked corn spread around to keep them in an area. Of course cover is important if you want to keep 50%.  You need to do this in August or September so it's warm and plenty of food available.  Cackle Hatchery is where to get polts.  No one is allowed to sell wild birds or a certain percentage of wild birds
The other way to get birds is the state market bulletin. They just might not have 8 week old birds
So I did all this at my bird hunting plantation that I've been a member of for 29 years 
We started releasing birds, we called semi wild, 25 years ago.  We went to the trouble of banding each bird and recording it.  And put a call bird rout and feed. Now we just release 30 birds on each course and they figure it out.  I bird hunt down there almost every week end and my bird dog frequently finds those coveys. The rule is you can shoot the cover rise but not chase singles
We have over 1,000 acres
I got my birds back in those days from a breeder that would sell me 8 week birds
I doubt you find anyone like that today


----------



## spring (Feb 2, 2021)

Borisvonf said:


> Hoping to get more suggestions on what to plant, how to manage habitat to make it huntable and suggestions on raising quail myself as suppliers of birds have been unreliable for the last 2 years.



Found this online if you're serious about raising your own quail instead of buying them:

_If you decide to rear your own birds with your own reproductive adults, egg incubation, etc., please consult as many resources as possible when getting set up to do so. Representative of bird species, each has its own world of specialized information. Rearing is somewhat outside the scope of this publication so will not be covered here. Various guides and enterprise budgets are available on the Internet, from university extension services or can be ordered from specialty supply outlets.
With respect to growing and maintaining birds there are number of things to consider. For feeding adults and chicks, nutritional needs change as the bird matures. For example, chicks are immediately started on a game bird chick starter. This is very different from domestic chicken starters. This is in the form of starter pellets. Chicks are attracted to green, so green paper or paper plates are helpful in getting the chicks to feed and can be collected and then discarded or burned for sanitation purposes.
After the chicks are one week old they can be started on a game bird “grower diet.” With respect to pheasants, if the formulation is correct, this diet may be satisfactory up to the bird’s maturity at 16 weeks. Per bird, each pheasant will require somewhere between 1⁄2 to 1 pound of starter per week; and about 10 pounds of grower, a 15-week supply, to reach maturity (4.75 pounds for hens and 5.5 pounds for roosters). Adult pheasants will require about 5.5 pounds of feed per month to maintain condition. Throughout the grow-out period, grit to aid digestion should be sprinkled on the feed every four days, until the birds are placed in flight pens.
Flight pens are all that is required for the preserve operator planning to purchase adult release- ready birds. The best flight-pens are those with some access to shelter during the worst of winter or spring weather. Adult pheasants are relatively hardy game birds and can withstand cold temperatures if well fed and protected from the wind. Pheasant chicks, quail and chukars are less hardy and need to be housed in some type of building until flight-ready. One commonly seen rule-of-thumb is that maturing pheasant chicks require 4 to 5 square feet of space per bird. Chicken brooder houses or coops will work well for young pheasants; old hog-runs also make excellent “lean-to” shelters for mature and later-stage maturing game birds.
Flight pens should be a minimum of 6 to 7 feet high and 15 to 20 feet wide with nylon netting over the top. Some publications state that chicken wire with 1-inch spacing is satisfactory for the sidewalls. I disagree, and prefer hardware cloth or a similar mesh size for the simple reason that at the least, chicks younger than 10 days old can squeeze through the 1-inch chicken wire, and so can the smallest weasel species and small rats. The bottom of any wire barrier should be buried at least 1 foot underground to prevent it from being accidentally breached, and to prevent predators from burrowing under the wire._


_Much more info on raising quail here_


----------



## Powerline (Feb 8, 2021)

How much fire ? are you doing on your farm? 100 acres you should be burning different blocks every year. The objective is different stages of early successional habitat.


----------



## Borisvonf (Mar 7, 2021)

Any suggestions on what to plant in open fields just to have a good hunting experience when put and take hunting.  I have 3-4 acres to plant.   Have done milo for past 3 years but had to spray for sugar cane aphids in milo last year.  Hate doing that as it risks bees even though I only spray late afternoon.   Deer eat all sunflowers.   Tried sesame last year and did not germinate so replanted milo.  Right now I have 1 acre in broomsedge (easiest of all just mow every few years) 3 acres in wildflower and switchgrass mix (cave in rock the short one).  
someone mentioned burning, but my farm is super hilly and slopes sharply down to a river. I worry that burning the woods would cause severe erosion.  I do have some flat flood plane I could try burning. 
thanks again for all the ideas.  Keep them coming. 
flight pen plans anyone?


----------



## ucfireman (Mar 7, 2021)

No experience but I would say native grasses and "weeds" if you can find it. 
I bush hog my open hardwoods once a year and let it grow up. I don't have quail that I know of but tons of birds in there.
I don't burn yet, everyone says don't cause it will kill the hardwoods but I don't know, mine are open with a weedy understory that I want to burn off. 
Maybe plant a few pines of some sort, not a lot but a few per acre to? (that's what's on the plantations so cant hurt)
I have thought about releasing some on my place, I have a similar set up it sounds . Except mine is sandy soil not rocky. (piedmont of Ga)
I would say burn a few acres a year and I like the idea of using a tractor spreader to toss some feed out every once in a while. 

Good luck and post pics of what you  do. I'm interested.


----------



## Mexican Squealer (Mar 7, 2021)

Not sure if you are familiar with the quail surrogator or how it works but it’s a great way to do an “early release” program. They are still the potato chip of the woods though and eventually get gone.


----------



## Borisvonf (Mar 8, 2021)

I’ll try to attach aerial photos of land one with topo lines and one without.  In addition to the land with the red band I have the 2 lots on either side of my street access (narrow strip off large triangle).


----------



## spring (Mar 8, 2021)

Borisvonf said:


> Any suggestions on what to plant in open fields just to have a good hunting experience when put and take hunting.  I have 3-4 acres to plant.   Have done milo for past 3 years but had to spray for sugar cane aphids in milo last year.  Hate doing that as it risks bees even though I only spray late afternoon.   Deer eat all sunflowers.   Tried sesame last year and did not germinate so replanted milo.  Right now I have 1 acre in broomsedge (easiest of all just mow every few years) 3 acres in wildflower and switchgrass mix (cave in rock the short one).
> someone mentioned burning, but my farm is super hilly and slopes sharply down to a river. I worry that burning the woods would cause severe erosion.  I do have some flat flood plane I could try burning.
> thanks again for all the ideas.  Keep them coming.
> flight pen plans anyone?




What is your objective when planting a food plot for the birds you're putting out right before you hunt them?
Are you mostly trying to have some cover to hunt through?
Have you ever seen the cover that will come up for free when you just disc through a field?
If you're looking to plant native grass, I'd focus on big and little blue stem along with Indian grass.  Switch grass gets way too tall for easy hunting.  That said, just discing and letting Mother Nature do it all for you is hard to beat for either wild or released birds.
As for building a flight pen, pages 20-23 of the link I sent you in this thread on February 2, 2021 will help you with the whole bird raising process.
Here it is again:

Much more info on raising quail here


----------



## Borisvonf (Mar 8, 2021)

Thanks spring.  The dove/quail field is my front yard.  
The 3 acres of switch grass has a good mix of wildflowers in it that my wife likes.  I did plant the cave in rock variety, and it is about the same height as broom sedge but not as dense, yet.  
I have 1 acre fallow that is almost a pure stand 
of broom sedge that is kind of attractive in winter. 
although my wife hated the electric fence tape around the sunflowers, she put up with it for the pretty flowers.  
the 4 acre field will likely grow a mean crop of ragweed if left fallow.  May just try light disking.  And see if it is “pretty“ enough for the front yard.


----------



## across the river (Mar 8, 2021)

The reality of it is you aren't going to have wild quail and anything you try to early release is going to get eaten and will be a waste of money.   Any planting or habitat work you do is going to essentially be for looks, so if you want to put that money into raising some yourself, then you could do that.   Improving the habitat isn't going to impact your quail one way or another.  I know guys who have a several nice broomsedge and bluestem fields and another guy that dump them out in a brush pile in the middle of his pine thicket with nothing buy pine needles on the ground.   The only difference is one looks "prettier" than the other if you take a picture.  They are put an take quail either way.  It looks like you have a couple of little small clearing areas in the woods, so why not put up some brush piles in those open areas in the woods, disc the edge of the field and let a little of it grow up, and you plant a dove field, have a manicured yard, etc... with whatever you want to do with the rest.  That will keep the wife happy, and give you a little grown up corner to put quail in.    You can make a course as short or as long as you want.   I wouldn't get all caught up in the "habitat" aspect of it, because it really doesn't matter.


----------



## spring (Mar 8, 2021)

If there's a shorter switch grass, as you mentioned, I wish I'd have known it as I planted some along with 3 other grass varieties about 6 years ago and that stuff is huge!   I planted some additional native grasses in some areas about a year ago and left out the switch grass, even though it clearly has benefit to quail and other wildlife. 
If you want dove, the milo you mentioned is a pretty easy option as it generally makes every year as compared to some things like dry land corn that can be very weather dependent. Brown top millet is another easy option.  In general though, I've found that dove like large fields. Sounds like you've had some good luck with them on your place. 
For released quail, food plots provide little bang for your buck if you're putting out birds and then immediately hunting them. I'd focus my efforts on the ground cover and the fun experience as compared to spending money on something that won't be eating it. Just my thoughts. 
If your objectives though are aesthetics for your wife, just do whatever she says 'cause no matter what you and I think, she'll be right!


----------



## GLS (Mar 9, 2021)

I've seen quail management de-emphasis (including removal) of Lespedeza  on some of the land I have hunted both private and public. I've seen old patches that are impossible to hunt.  Quail will run through the open ground underneath and flush on the far side and the height of the old patches is over the heads of the hunters blocking the view of the flush.  As has been stated above, don't spend money on food plots which concentrate not only the birds, but the predators which feed on them.  Food trails are better for reasons of expense and keeping the birds scattered reducing the effect of predators.


----------



## coachdoug87 (Mar 9, 2021)

GLS said:


> I've seen quail management de-emphasis (including removal) of Lespedeza  on some of the land I have hunted both private and public. I've seen old patches that are impossible to hunt.  Quail will run through the open ground underneath and flush on the far side and the height of the old patches is over the heads of the hunters blocking the view of the flush.  As has been stated above, don't spend money on food plots which concentrate not only the birds, but the predators which feed on them.  Food trails are better for reasons of expense and keeping the birds scattered reducing the effect of predators.


I agree with all this and I discovered it by accident. Years ago I had access to an old farm that had grown up in weeds and briars. I would release quail and work my dogs. I never made any effort at early release, but sometimes there would be a quail or two that I wouldn't kill. The place had begger lice and other weeds. Also, a guy lived on the place and had yard chickens. When I came back the next year, I found a semi-wild covey that hung around the old barns etc. These quail had not only survived, they had reproduced.


----------



## oochee hunter (Mar 21, 2021)

Mexican Squealer said:


> Not sure if you are familiar with the quail surrogator or how it works but it’s a great way to do an “early release” program. They are still the potato chip of the woods though and eventually get gone.


My neighbor has a surrogator, which species of quail is best suited for it?  I am in central Ga.  I have a small population of wild birds so don't want to release birds that might be harmfull, that may have a chance to survive knowing that few probably will.  Shopping for chicks I see Northern, Wisconsin, Georgia giant and a few others .  Any suggestions?


----------



## Deplorable Birdhunter (Mar 21, 2021)

oochee hunter said:


> My neighbor has a surrogator, which species of quail is best suited for it?  I am in central Ga.  I have a small population of wild birds so don't want to release birds that might be harmfull, that may have a chance to survive knowing that few probably will.  Shopping for chicks I see Northern, Wisconsin, Georgia giant and a few others .  Any suggestions?


You definitely want the Northern Bobwhite!


----------



## coachdoug87 (Mar 22, 2021)

Definitely Northern Bobwhite. Try to get them from somebody who sells to preserves etc. They breed better flying birds.


----------



## Mexican Squealer (Mar 22, 2021)

Northern’s but that’s simply because that was what I could get. I gave it up years back but it was fun to open the top of that thing at five weeks and see all those quail fly out. I still have 2 surrogators and would like to sell them simply because they don’t get used anymore. Neat contraptions and fun way to do early release.


----------



## spring (Mar 23, 2021)

oochee hunter said:


> My neighbor has a surrogator, which species of quail is best suited for it?  I am in central Ga.  I have a small population of wild birds so don't want to release birds that might be harmfull, that may have a chance to survive knowing that few probably will.  Shopping for chicks I see Northern, Wisconsin, Georgia giant and a few others .  Any suggestions?



If you have some wild birds now and want to keep them, be very careful about the idea of releasing pen-raised birds on your property. Several reasons. First, the released birds will not have the wariness of wild birds and will be very vulnerable to predators. As you attract more predators to your place, the risk to your wild birds will increase.
Secondly, there is a chance of some interbreeding between the wild birds and the released ones. Released birds often are bigger, slower, and not as adept physically to survive in the wild as birds that are genetically prepared for the challenge of staying alive. Genetic degradation of your wild bird population is a real risk if you mix the two populations.
Lastly, properties that annually bring in released birds often begin to bypass maintaining and creating brood and nesting habitat since they know a new supply of birds is coming in the fall. This ultimately changes the nature of property management that can again hurt your wild birds.
It’s all certainly fine to release birds in a effort to have some to hunt, but if securing the future of your wild birds is a priority, mixing the two efforts usually ends up eliminating the opportunity for one of them.


----------



## Wellrounded Outcast (Jul 8, 2021)

Are there any seasonal restrictions to dog training on private land using put and take quail in Georgia? I know there are posted dates for public land dog training areas.


----------



## coachdoug87 (Jul 8, 2021)

No seasonal restrictions for pen raised birds on private land.


----------



## GeorgiaGlockMan (Jul 8, 2021)

A buddy of mine had some decent luck with a few quail surrogators on a couple of Texas deer leases we had for years. 

The biggest problem we had was not being there enough to monitor them.  They'd be great for a small farm with a presence.


----------



## GeorgiaGlockMan (Jul 8, 2021)

Here's one like his.

https://wildlifemanagementtechnologies.com/products/surrogator-xl


----------



## spring (Jul 8, 2021)

GeorgiaGlockMan said:


> Here's one like his.
> 
> https://wildlifemanagementtechnologies.com/products/surrogator-xl




What all was he able to accomplish with these in Texas?


----------



## GeorgiaGlockMan (Jul 8, 2021)

spring said:


> What all was he able to accomplish with these in Texas?


Hard to tell he raised several batches a year for 4-5 years.

Our main lease holder at one place in spur texas (he sub leased us deer rights), had the place to take clients quail hunting.   He'd helicopter them in if that tells you anything. 

 After 7 years, the population was getting decent.   We'd see many covey every time there.   Hard to tell if it was new birds he added or the 100's of thousands of pounds of feed we dumped for the birds year round.

Apparently, it wasn't worth it to the quail team and we couldn't afford to lease the place on our own.

  It was 10,000+ acres of heaven.  Deep canyons, some cleared fields, mesquite filled draws, year round water, etc.  If we hadn't got a new place with a rent house in turkey TX right after that loosing spur TX  lease, it would have made me cry (seriously).


----------



## Borisvonf (Jan 13, 2022)

Hello folks,
I wanted to come back with a late season follow up.  I ended up disking and broadcasting a mix from wannamaker seed called DNR Quail Mix.  It is a mix of sesame, brown top, buckwheat, milo and Egyptian wheat.  The deer tore up the buckwheat but all else produced.  The problem for my purposes was that the Egyptian wheat was 7-9 feet tall.  Great cover but not huntable.  Ended up only putting birds in the switch grass.  
My old three legged Drathaar was whining and complaining today so I decided to put out the last quail in the Jonny house and grabbed my 28 o/u.  Walking out doves were flushing out of the quail mix and all of a sudden I heard quail flush and old blue locked up.  Ended up flushing a carryover covey of released bird from at least 3 weeks ago.   This is not a testament of releasing birds to create a wild population just an anecdote on how the cover held birds.My plan for next year is to broadcast a similar mix but only have Egyptian wheat in strips likely on the perimeter and a strip down the middle.  I still never got around to building the flight pen but I am getting an English cocker pup end of the month so will be more motivated to hunt next year.  Safe hunting,  and I welcome any comments on my plans.


----------

