# I'm a Mormon



## ACRAthens (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi guys.

In the wake of Romney loosing the election I've heard/read a number of people that supported him while he was running express their opinion that they hope they are "never forced to vote for a Mormon again" and that they hope within their lifetime they "never see a Mormon president." 

I'm not shocked to hear that opinion but I will say it ruffles my feathers. I've received a lot of flak over my life for being "Mormon" and for what people _perceive_ we think and believe. I wanted to clear the air here if I may for a moment in regards to where our loyalties lie. 

I am a proud American, though honestly a bit more loyal to the state of Georgia. I grew up in Georgia and though I have lived/worked in other places for a time I've chosen to raise my children here where I was raised. I come from a farming family in southwestern Virginia and we go back to some of the first settlers in Virginia. Old blood. 

My Methodist mother and grandparents met Mormon missionaries in the 1950s and joined after a few years of looking into the church and what it stood for. I was raised in the Mormon church and was a missionary in Mexico and have been married in a Mormon temple. 

It hasn't been easy being a Mormon here. Southerners see me as a outsider, even though I was born and raised here and I hunt/fish/play music/love sports, family, community just like they do. Other Western Mormons that live here also see me as an outsider for some of those same reasons. As you can see, southern Mormons don't quite belong anywhere. 

Growing up, my friend's parents were always suspicious of me being Mormon. I can count at least a dozen friends/girlfriends I've lost growing up because of their fear of my chosen religion. Now my kids face the same behavior in school; even some after-school social groups have disallowed my children from attending solely based on us being "Mormon."

Truth is, I have no idea what some are afraid of? So we don't believe in the Trinity, we believe God has a perfected body, that we're Jesus' true church (who doesn't believe that about their own faith?) we believe in modern-day prophets, in temples, in preaching and baptizing, etc etc etc. So what? We may not fit the current definition of "Christian" but we believe that we believe in the same Christ you do. Who cares if we don't believe the same things if we are loyal, safe, good neighbors that support the American way of life? Can we not disagree without being feared?

I've heard enough crazy fears to last a lifetime: that we have a points system whereby if we convert someone we can earn our way into heaven; that we kill members of our church who want to leave; that we do all sorts of sexual and violent acts in our temples; that we force our young to get married and have children early; that we don't fight in the military; that we hope to overthrow the US government from within; the list goes on and on...

I don't know who or what organization perpetuates that kind of talk but it is patently false. I've been a member of this church since my youth and have seen its good and bad sides enough to say that these are good people, sometimes culturally different, but truly GOOD. Not of Satan, not anti-Americans, but GOOD God-fearing people that make great neighbors and loyal friends. They've proven it by their good fruit and "by their fruits ye shall know them."

I, for one, (and I'm sure I speak for many Mormons in saying this) have no other "agenda" other than to do well at my job, raise my family and worship in peace and have kind relationships with my neighbors. (And hunt and fish A LOT. )

Let us be your friends, kindly laugh at our peculiarities - we don't mind so much - but try not to see us as outsiders or enemies when we have proven ourselves time and time again as loyal Americans just as much as the next guy.

Thanks for listening! 

ACRAthens


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## mtnwoman (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks for expressing what you believe. I've never doubted that mormons were 'Christians'....I just didn't know exactly what/how they believe. Most Christians are not gonna agree on everything anyway. There are folks that give mormons a bad name, just like there are baptists that give other baptists or Christians a bad name.

You are welcome here and I'd be interested in learning more about what you believe in. That's what most of us are here for anyway is to learn about each other.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 7, 2012)

ACRAthens said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> In the wake of Romney loosing the election I've heard/read a number of people that supported him while he was running express their opinion that they hope they are "never forced to vote for a Mormon again" and that they hope within their lifetime they "never see a Mormon president."
> 
> ...



First off...welcome to the forum

I can say many of those things for being an evangelical Christian growing up where I did.

I will say, I have no problem voting for a Mormon and I did yesterday (well...it was Friday as I did early voting).  I realize that our President is not my pastor, nor my spiritual mentor.  I do not feel that Mormons are trying to take over the world...merely trying to reach those they see as unsaved.

That being said, I do not believe you worship the same Jesus I worship.  You and other Mormons are good people.  I've worked with Mormons in the past and have played sports with them and even had them as friends in school.  Again, I say welcome to the fray.  We don't all get along, but at the end of the day, I think most of us would welcome each other at the campfire and enjoy a beverage of each one's choice, looking at each other as peers...as fellow hunters....as friends...with our own views of spirituality that we all know to be Biblical and 100% correct.


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## stringmusic (Nov 7, 2012)

I ain't skeered of ya. 

Cool post ACRAthens! I appreciate you typing all that out and clearing the air. I'll admit that I don't know much about the Mormon faith, so I hope you stick around the forum for a while and I can learn some things from you.


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 7, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> First off...welcome to the forum
> 
> I can say many of those things for being an evangelical Christian growing up where I did.
> 
> ...



RJ thinks he knows everything
We just agree to disagree

RJ - When you headed to KS? Have you had any rut reports from your place??


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## NE GA Pappy (Nov 7, 2012)

I believe that mormons are sincere people who believe what they have been taught. I also believe some of those beliefs are sincerely wrong, but I am not going to call anyone names, jump up and down or go crazy on you because you are a mormon. I don't believe you worship the same Lord and Savior I do, and I have some very specific reasons why I believe that.  If you ask, I would be happy to share my thoughts, but I am not going to shove it down anyone's throat.  I have some very close friends who are mormon, and I know them as decent people who want to do good things and they treat people well.

I also have some friends who are JW's and handle that much the same way.

I voted for Mitt and was happy to do it, because the other choice was unthinkable. To tell the whole truth, if Mitt had been running against another conservative, and the only difference was their religion, I would vote for the one whose belief system was closest to mine.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 7, 2012)

ALLBEEF said:


> RJ thinks he knows everything
> We just agree to disagree
> 
> RJ - When you headed to KS? Have you had any rut reports from your place??



Now if you could just get Hawglips to agree with me

Agree to disagree?...well...we agree to overlook each others faults 

Will be pulling into the farm on Sunday evening with 4-5 days of hunting.  

No idea on rut reports...seen a few pics...nothing super super huge, but a few nice ones.  Hope to run another camera when I'm out there.  Based on JTs thread, I think this coming week will be the magic week.


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 7, 2012)

That going to be a tough one!!

Good luck on the KS trip....we'll be right behind you to clean up the mess with the bang sticks!




rjcruiser said:


> Now if you could just get Hawglips to agree with me
> 
> Agree to disagree?...well...we agree to overlook each others faults
> 
> ...


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## thedeacon (Nov 7, 2012)

Can you except me as a Christian just as deserving of heaven as you are?

I voted for a morman and I would do it again.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 7, 2012)

I don`t pick my friends, folks that I associate with, or trade with, by their religious or non-religious beliefs, or their political beliefs. 

You`ll be just fine. 


btw...I voted for a Mormon too.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 7, 2012)

ACRAthens said:


> I've received a lot of flak over my life for being "Mormon" ...



Is that how you typically refer to yourself?  More often, I see "LDS" used when referring to themselves and their church.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 7, 2012)

ALLBEEF said:


> That going to be a tough one!!
> 
> Good luck on the KS trip....we'll be right behind you to clean up the mess with the bang sticks!



You'll have to let me know how it goes.  I'm tempted to hold out till December next year and utilize the rifle. 

Makes those big fields a lot smaller when you've got a rifle as opposed to a bow.


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 7, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> Can you except me as a Christian just as deserving of heaven as you are?




I'm sure any Mormon would....but this is not for any man to decide


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 7, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> You'll have to let me know how it goes.  I'm tempted to hold out till December next year and utilize the rifle.
> 
> Makes those big fields a lot smaller when you've got a rifle as opposed to a bow.



Will do......I'll try to do a LFTT


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## Ronnie T (Nov 7, 2012)

Welcome.
I'll add you to the long list of folks who don't always agree with me.  There's some good folks on that list.

God bless.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 7, 2012)

You guys make me proud to be a part of this forum.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 7, 2012)

Welcome to the forum. Grow some thick skin and stick around to share your faith. I would like the LDS vs Mormon name cleared up to. My mom called the LDS Church the Mormon Church and the Mormon she was talking too quickly corrected her.
I don't believe in the Trinity either. I think there is only one more Christian on here that doesn't believe in it either. At least in the way most mainstream Christians believe. I too believe in present day prophets and I don't understand what makes the early scholars any better than present day scholars.

I never met anyone too different from me until I joined the Navy. Boy what a wake up call. Prejudices are something that must be overcome, as you know by your own churches history. Now that I think about it, we didn't have any black members in my Baptist Church growing up. People have a fear of the unknown like ya'lls Holy undergarments and temple rituals. We have foot washings and speak in tongues, do ya'll do that?
How do ya'll feel about Free-will?
If you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father, I might see you in Heaven as I don't believe in OSAS & blessed assurance that most Christians do.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 7, 2012)

I think the major difference about Jesus is most Christians believe God got Mary pregnant by using the "Holy Spirit whereas Mormons got he got her pregnant himself. The technicality is a big one but it doesn't change who Jesus is. Unless there is something else i'm missing.
Here are a couple of Mormon views of who Jesus is:
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I believe that they are two separate beings. I know that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. He lived on the Earth and lived a perfect life. He taught the people how to return to the presence of our Father in Heaven. He is our Savior; He Atoned for the Sins of the world by taking the sins of the world upon Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross that we might live again. He suffered and died so we can repent of our sins and return spotless to our Father in Heaven. Christ received the keys of Resurrection when He rose from the dead, He saved us from death. Because of it, we will be reunited with our body eternally. Then Christ will be our Judge.

I believe and worship as my Savior Jesus Christ…the one born of Mary in a manger (Luke 2:16), the one that as a child taught men in the temple (Luke 2:46-47), the one that grew to an adult and lived a perfect and sinless life (Luke 2:52), the one that was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan river (Mark 1:9-11) the one that fasted for 40 days and overcame the temptations of the devil (Matt 4:1-11), the one that called men from many professions to be his disciples and apostles (Mark 1:16-17), the one that taught by example and with parables (Matt 13 and others), the one that performed miracles healing the sick and even raising the dead (John 11), the one that was betrayed judged and crucified on a cross in Jerusalem, the one that was risen from the dead after 3 days (Matt 28:6), the one that appeared to his apostles in His resurrected form (Luke 24:36-39). God’s only begotten Son, Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, offered His life as a sacrifice in death, and was resurrected thus making it possible for Him to offer atonement to God for my sins. He is my savior, redeemer, and my God. I believe Jesus Christ came and is the Savior and redeemer for all of the world and that through Him all might live again. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22). I believe that I show my acceptance of Christ’ atonement by not only verbalizing it but by striving to live what He taught.(James 2:17-18) I believe Christ taught us to hear and do His teachings in order to accept His atonement (Matt 7:21-27)


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 7, 2012)

I don't have a problem about  their belief in Jesus. I kinda looked at the belief that God has a body since we are made in his image and a verse about dieing if you see God. How can you see God if he is a spirit?  Anyway my problem is I can't believe the story about John Smith and the funny looking (to me) Mormon Bible. I also have a hard time getting past the comparison to Masonic Temple rituals that Mormons practice. 
But then i'm not a Mormon so it's nothing that concerns me too much. It wouldn't prevent my children from playing with a Mormon's children any more than not playing with Oneness Pentecostal's children.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 7, 2012)

Do all Mormons get baptized like this?
"Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."

I like that as you've got both ways covered.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Thanks for expressing what you believe. I've never doubted that mormons were 'Christians'....I just didn't know exactly what/how they believe. Most Christians are not gonna agree on everything anyway. There are folks that give mormons a bad name, just like there are baptists that give other baptists or Christians a bad name.
> 
> You are welcome here and I'd be interested in learning more about what you believe in. That's what most of us are here for anyway is to learn about each other.



Thanks for the nice welcome.  Growing up in the South, I'm used to answering questions and welcome it. So ask away and if I can answer I will, if I don't know I'll tell you so.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> First off...welcome to the forum
> 
> I can say many of those things for being an evangelical Christian growing up where I did.



Wow. I didn't expect that. How were you treated?




> That being said, I do not believe you worship the same Jesus I worship.



And I'm perfectly okay with that! As it seems you are with me. 



> You and other Mormons are good people.  I've worked with Mormons in the past and have played sports with them and even had them as friends in school.  Again, I say welcome to the fray.  We don't all get along, but at the end of the day, I think most of us would welcome each other at the campfire and enjoy a beverage of each one's choice, looking at each other as peers...as fellow hunters....as friends...with our own views of spirituality that we all know to be Biblical and 100% correct.



Thanks for the welcome.  The bevy of my choice is always Coke Classic!


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I believe that mormons are sincere people who believe what they have been taught. I also believe some of those beliefs are sincerely wrong, but I am not going to call anyone names, jump up and down or go crazy on you because you are a mormon. I don't believe you worship the same Lord and Savior I do, and I have some very specific reasons why I believe that.  If you ask, I would be happy to share my thoughts, but I am not going to shove it down anyone's throat.  I have some very close friends who are mormon, and I know them as decent people who want to do good things and they treat people well.



Yes, we're both in the same boat about our opposing views of Christ. And at the heart of it, that does make us different somewhat. However, I completely agree  - as it seems you do - to live and let live when no harm is being done. 



> I voted for Mitt and was happy to do it, because the other choice was unthinkable. To tell the whole truth, if Mitt had been running against another conservative, and the only difference was their religion, I would vote for the one whose belief system was closest to mine.



And I wouldn't blame you! Assuming all things equal in candidates, I expect everyone would do the same.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> Can you except me as a Christian just as deserving of heaven as you are?



Absolutely.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 8, 2012)

ACRAthens said:


> Wow. I didn't expect that. How were you treated?



Really?  Showing up a little late or right on time to ball games on Sunday because of church...not dating girls cause they were not of the same faith....

But I didn't grow up in the South...so, maybe that is why.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Is that how you typically refer to yourself?  More often, I see "LDS" used when referring to themselves and their church.



It's actually pretty confusing when looked at. I use both LDS and Mormon interchangeably. A number of years ago (maybe 10?) the Church PR department asked for us to not call ourselves "Mormons" because it was a nickname given to us by others, and instead to refer to ourselves as "LDS." 

However, I think that re-branding effort didn't go over too well because about 3-4 years ago the Church came out with another branding campaign saying "I'm a Mormon." It seemed no matter how hard they tried, people just didn't get "LDS."

So no easy answer for you.  I think you'll find LDS/Mormon people in different camps but no one stressing about it too much. Usually I say I attend the "Mormon Church" and leave it at that.


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## David Parker (Nov 8, 2012)

sweet.  Glad to know you


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Welcome to the forum. Grow some thick skin and stick around to share your faith.



I could be wrong, but I definitely think I have thick skin!  I guess the point of my initial post was to say that even though we may all disagree on doctrines, it doesn't really reflect on whether we can be good neighbors/citizens etc. that have the same hopes for our families and America. 



> I would like the LDS vs Mormon name cleared up to. My mom called the LDS Church the Mormon Church and the Mormon she was talking too quickly corrected her.



See the post I just sent Avatar. I think it's pretty confusing whether to call us LDS or Mormon.  Honestly, I think some Mormons might be offended by being called that, though I have no idea why? Its just a nickname, nothing else. 



> People have a fear of the unknown like ya'lls Holy undergarments and temple rituals. We have foot washings and speak in tongues, do ya'll do that?



Yes, I think that is the root issue to all of this, really. I just feel that we should only fear the unknown if we see that the people are not putting forth "good fruits." 

As far as foot washings, no, we don't currently do that as a practice. However I don't think there is any doctrine against it. I just think its not a practice. One of my friends in another church participates in washings from time to time and it seems like a beautiful gesture of love, loyalty and friendship. 

As far as speaking in tongues, it doesn't really happen extemporaneously in the modern LDS church anymore (as far as my experience goes!). One can read old histories of the early LDS church and speaking in tongues and foot washings happened all the time. I think now we interpret "speaking in tongues" more as being the ability among missionaries to quickly learn languages well enough to preach to other non-English speaking peoples. It is curious, though, that our early church had a much different view/practice in this regard and that we don't practice the same now. Don't have an answer for that, though. 



> How do ya'll feel about Free-will?



As in a person has the complete free choice to choose right from wrong and that their life is not "predetermined" by fate or God or some other source? Yes, Mormons believe that we all have free-will and it is one of our greatest gifts from God second to life itself. 



> If you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father, I might see you in Heaven as I don't believe in OSAS & blessed assurance that most Christians do.



What is OSAS?


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think the major difference about Jesus is most Christians believe God got Mary pregnant by using the "Holy Spirit whereas Mormons got he got her pregnant himself. The technicality is a big one but it doesn't change who Jesus is. Unless there is something else i'm missing.



It's not doctrine among Mormons that God the Father came down and impregnated Mary Himself. It's only speculation by early prophets of our church that was never canonized.

We actually have no formal belief on _how_ it happened, just _that_ it happened and we're grateful Jesus was born!


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Do all Mormons get baptized like this?
> "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."



We do. That's what the baptizer says, first calling the person by their full name.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 8, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Really?  Showing up a little late or right on time to ball games on Sunday because of church...not dating girls cause they were not of the same faith....
> 
> But I didn't grow up in the South...so, maybe that is why.



Yeah, I think if you grew up here you'd find that was all pretty common amongst almost all denominations here. You'd probably have fit right in.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 8, 2012)

Welcome aboard, we need more LDS believers in here.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 8, 2012)

ACRAthens, thanks for your responses, OSAS is "once saved, always saved" meaning you can't lose your salvation once you are saved. You can leave the Church for awhile but God will call you back before you die.


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## hawglips (Nov 12, 2012)

Good to see another Mormon in here!  

Are you a convert, or born into the church?


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## Mako22 (Nov 12, 2012)

You don't believe in the same Christ that I believe in as mine is the biblical Christ not the one that the peeping stone expert dreamed up. I didn't let anyone "force" me into voting for a Mormon as I didn't vote for the flip flopping yankee liberal Mitt Romney to begin with. I put a write in candidate in for President instead.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 12, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> You don't believe in the same Christ that I believe in as mine is the biblical Christ not the one that the peeping stone expert dreamed up. I didn't let anyone "force" me into voting for a Mormon as I didn't vote for the flip flopping yankee liberal Mitt Romney to begin with. I put a write in candidate in for President instead.



Really?

http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 12, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> You don't believe in the same Christ that I believe in as mine is the biblical Christ not the one that the peeping stone expert dreamed up. I didn't let anyone "force" me into voting for a Mormon as I didn't vote for the flip flopping yankee liberal Mitt Romney to begin with. I put a write in candidate in for President instead.



Could you explain the difference in the Jesus that Mormons believe in that is different from the Jesus you believe in.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 12, 2012)

Well, this one has turned south.


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 12, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> You don't believe in the same Christ that I believe in as mine is the biblical Christ not the one that the peeping stone expert dreamed up. I didn't let anyone "force" me into voting for a Mormon as I didn't vote for the flip flopping yankee liberal Mitt Romney to begin with. I put a write in candidate in for President instead.



You sound like a bright one......


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 12, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Well, this one has turned south.



We're use to it


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 12, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Really?
> 
> http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/



Thanks for using a creditable sight!


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## ACRAthens (Nov 12, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Well, this one has turned south.



No need for it to. 

There's room enough in the world to all worship however we please! My Christ different than his Christ? Okay - no problem there with me.


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## ACRAthens (Nov 12, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> You don't believe in the same Christ that I believe in as mine is the biblical Christ not the one that the peeping stone expert dreamed up.



Welcome and well met! Isn't it great that we can all worship as we please in this country? That's why I love the USA.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 12, 2012)

I believe Jesus is the "Son of God" and our Saviour who died for our sins. I don't believe Jesus is God. Is this similar to what Mormons believe? I still don't know exactly what the different beliefs are. I don't see why we can't discuss it without it going any more "south" than any of the other discussions do. Look at some of the freewill vs pre-destination threads, etc.


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## hawglips (Nov 12, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I believe Jesus is the "Son of God" and our Saviour who died for our sins.



Mormons do as well.



Artfuldodger said:


> I don't believe Jesus is God. Is this similar to what Mormons believe?



Mormons believe that Christ is Jehovah of the Old Testament.  He was chosen by our Heavenly Father from before the creation of the world to come to earth and suffer for our sins and die on the cross -- so that we could be saved.

Mormons also believe that he is the Word who was with God, and was God, and by whom the worlds were created. 

He's Alpha and Omega, the truth and the light, and the only Way by which man can one day live with him and our father in the kingdom of God.

The main problem folks like Woodsman and Cruiser have with Mormons is that we believe that Jesus Christ still speaks today through living prophets.  That rubs folks the wrong way.  But we believe that God really and truly lives, and loves us today just as much as he ever did.  And so we don't have to rely on what a council in Nicea voted on to decide what is or is not true "doctrine."


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## Keebs (Nov 12, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Thanks for expressing what you believe. I've never doubted that mormons were 'Christians'....I just didn't know exactly what/how they believe. Most Christians are not gonna agree on everything anyway. There are folks that give mormons a bad name, just like there are baptists that give other baptists or Christians a bad name.
> 
> You are welcome here and I'd be interested in learning more about what you believe in. That's what most of us are here for anyway is to learn about each other.


 Ditto this ^^^


Nicodemus said:


> I don`t pick my friends, folks that I associate with, or trade with, by their religious or non-religious beliefs, or their political beliefs.
> 
> You`ll be just fine.
> 
> ...


 And this!

Welcome aboard!


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## SGADawg (Nov 12, 2012)

Heck, I don't think all the Baptists are going to Heaven.

I'm sorry that you have been mistreated by some Christians.  I don't remember ever asking someone what their religion was before deciding if I could work with, be friends with or vote for them.  I have many Mormon or LDS friends.  While we believe differently, we can still get along.  I have never known it to be an issue except maybe if folks are dumb enough to get into arguments about whose religion is "the right one".  I may share my beliefs with you and listen as you share yours with me.  After that, it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict.  I'm not going to convert you or be converted by you as result of arguing and fighting about who is right.

Oh, I voted for the Mormon too.  My statement was "Right now we need a change in leadership, I'll worry about his soul later.  I don't care if he is Mormon, Jew, Catholic, Baptist, Buddhist or atheist.  The only professed Evangelical Christian in the race, I can't vote for."


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## centerpin fan (Nov 12, 2012)

SGADawg said:


> I have many Mormon or LDS friends.



Really?  I live within spitting distance of the Mormon temple and don't know a single one.


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## olcowman (Nov 12, 2012)

The actual members of the LDS church, as well as their practices, has never been an issue with me... it's some of the history involved with the evolution of the church and to speak plainly, the book of the Mormon itself that made it a little difficult for me to support Romney.

I dated a LDS member for a couple of years, even attended open house at a new temple, was pretty regular at the sunday meetings... and I don't mean no disrespect here, but... forget some of the radical beliefs associated with the church (ie. pre-existence, that faithful members will be gods of their own planets in the afterlife, baptizing dead folks, etc.)... My problem with the whole LDS tenet (and what kept me from converting at that time) all stems from the origins of the mormon movement itself, and the 'book' the whole thing is derived from. 

I really want to know... do mormons really believe that Joe Smith, pretty much some kid from upstate NY who's income mostly consisted of him and his family a looking at rocks throwed in their hat's and 'divining' where treasure was buried on folks' farmland, for a fee of course. A man, who later in life, was documented frauding the non-believers of his community through various schemes including counterfeiting and bank fraud... and who also developed a penchant for marrying often, sometimes to very young girls and women who were already married. Do ya'll believe this man to be a prophet of God? And in light of archeological evidence and the advances in technology associated with carbon dating since the 'book' was first published... ain't it getting kind of hard to convince folks that 'Jesus the Western' needs to be on their reading list?

I apologize for the tone of this post and actually have been hesitant to submit it. I also realize that the past of many, if not most religous groups is littered with misdeeds and people of dubious moral character... heck, I figure more humans have been killed by their fellow man "in the name of God" more than for any other reason over the last few thousand years. Therefore I ain't never been 'whole hog', so to speak, over organized religion in general... and Lord knows the LDS is organized. The effort by members themselves and the  propaganda published and distributed thru varios media outlets worldwide by the group is admirable and testament to the church's efforts to recruit folks to Christ. 

I have heard all the 'canned' responses to the stuff I posted above, and have tried very hard to see it from the LDS point of view... As bad as I hate to admit it because it doesn't say much for my own Christianity and character... when I heard Mitt Romney... 'Mormon'... I kinda went ouch, just a little! I couldn't help it... but if I'd have known you growing up or in fact knew you now, your LDS faith would not affect our friendship or cause me to exclude you from any particular group or function I was associated with. 

Being mormon doesn't cause me to question someone's morals or character... but some of y'alls teachings and practices are what an ol' southern redneck might consider kinda odd? And based upon my own encounter and subsequent consideration of converting... well, I just didn't get it I reckon. But I still have some mormon friends and I am sure you and I could share a camp fire sometime... of course I might tease you from time to time and ask you when you planned on 'taking on another wife'....


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 12, 2012)

olcowman said:


> I really want to know... do mormons really believe that Joe Smith, pretty much some kid from upstate NY who's income mostly consisted of him and his family a looking at rocks throwed in their hat's and 'divining' where treasure was buried on folks' farmland, for a fee of course. A man, who later in life, was documented frauding the non-believers of his community through various schemes including counterfeiting and bank fraud... and who also developed a penchant for marrying often, sometimes to very young girls and women who were already married. Do ya'll believe this man to be a prophet of God? And in light of archeological evidence and the advances in technology associated with carbon dating since the 'book' was first published... ain't it getting kind of hard to convince folks that 'Jesus the Western' needs to be on their reading list?




I'd like to know where you find all of these "facts" you list above?


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## JFS (Nov 12, 2012)

Recent crazy claims are no basis for a religion.  Everyone knows you can only believe the crazy stuff if it purportedly happened a long time ago.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 12, 2012)

JFS said:


> Recent crazy claims are no basis for a religion.  Everyone knows you can only believe the crazy stuff if it purportedly happened a long time ago.



Reminded me of this:

Scientology Losing Ground To New Fictionology
May 11, 2005 | ISSUE 41•19 

LOS ANGELES—According to a report released Monday by the American Institute of Religions, the Church of Scientology, once one of the fastest-growing religious organizations in the U.S., is steadily losing members to the much newer religion Fictionology. 

"Unlike Scientology, which is based on empirically verifiable scientific tenets, Fictionology's central principles are essentially fairy tales with no connection to reality," the AIR report read. "In short, Fictionology offers its followers a mythical belief system free from the cumbersome scientific method to which Scientology is hidebound." 

Created in 2003 by self-proclaimed messiah Bud Don Ellroy, Fictionology's principles were first outlined in the self-help paperback Imaginetics: The New Pipe-Dream Of Modern Mental Make-Believe. 

Fictionology's central belief, that any imaginary construct can be incorporated into the church's ever-growing set of official doctrines, continues to gain popularity. Believers in Santa Claus, his elves, or the Tooth Fairy are permitted—even encouraged—to view them as deities. Even corporate mascots like the Kool-Aid Man are valid objects of Fictionological worship. 

"My personal savior is Batman," said Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Greg Jurgenson. "My wife chooses to follow the teachings of the Gilmore Girls. Of course, we are still beginners. Some advanced-level Fictionologists have total knowledge of every lifetime they have ever lived for the last 80 trillion years." 

You can read the rest here:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientology-losing-ground-to-new-fictionology,1327/


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 12, 2012)

I can understand someone not believing everything Mormons believe but not to the point of not voting for one.  I heard a gay Republican say he was voting for Romney because he was more aligned with  his overall views than Obama being for Gay rights. There is just more to picking a president than his religion to me.
Why have all the Prophets died? What happened to them?  They served their purpose? We haven't had any since Jesus died?


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 12, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Why have all the Prophets died? What happened to them?  They served their purpose? We haven't had any since Jesus died?



The LDS believe there is a Prophet today....he is the president of the church....his name is Thomas Monson....look up LDS.org and read about any topic you wish.


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## speedcop (Nov 12, 2012)

I voted for Romney and was proud to do it. Our family grew up southern baptist. My sister met a young man back in the early 70's who was a mormon. They fell in love, got married and she eventually became a mormon. They are still married to this day, live in NC. You wont find a more caring decent devoted to God person than my sister and her family. We dont "debate" each others religeon, just respect it. I have worked with mormons in my job and i'll stand next to one anyday. I quess if it came down to who has devoted more time and effort for their religeon between my sister and me, honestly,Im way in the back.  All that being said, Welcome aboard!


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## SGADawg (Nov 13, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Really?  I live within spitting distance of the Mormon temple and don't know a single one.



You need to get out more.

There are 2 LDS families on my street (out of 8 houses).  Several of the teachers that I taught with before retiring are LDS.  We have 2 Mormons married to Southern Baptists that attend our So. Bapt. Church on a somewhat regular basis.  You probably do know some but just don't know they are Mormon.


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## Pale Rider (Nov 22, 2012)

olcowman said:


> The actual members of the LDS church, as well as their practices, has never been an issue with me... it's some of the history involved with the evolution of the church and to speak plainly, the book of the Mormon itself that made it a little difficult for me to support Romney.
> 
> I dated a LDS member for a couple of years, even attended open house at a new temple, was pretty regular at the sunday meetings... and I don't mean no disrespect here, but... forget some of the radical beliefs associated with the church (ie. pre-existence, that faithful members will be gods of their own planets in the afterlife, baptizing dead folks, etc.)... My problem with the whole LDS tenet (and what kept me from converting at that time) all stems from the origins of the mormon movement itself, and the 'book' the whole thing is derived from.
> 
> ...



That's pretty funny stuff. I guess it's not much different that protestants who allowed a crazy, child abused ex-monk with dillusions of becoming Pope, who rewrote verses of Scripture to suit his own needs to lead them out of a Church that Christ himself started. THEN let a man who advocated the execution of children who had the nerve to talk back to their parents define the entire protestant movement.

All Christian denominations who have been led by men have had their crazy ways and history. That being said, the spirit of the LDS church is something that I have always admired. When I see a practicing Morman, I usually see a person who represents a clean cut, all American person. I admire their value system which is why I voted for who I believe is a good, moral man.

Welcome to the forum. You appear to be a fly fisherman which says a lot about you in my book.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 22, 2012)

And then there was this Jew who taught that he was the Messiah and went against the teachings of the land. He was thought to be somewhat of a nut and regarded as a heretic. 
Growing up as a Southern Redneck, Catholics & Lutherans seemed a little bit odd, but then again so did eating Chinese food and socializing with black people.


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## TaxPhd (Dec 13, 2012)

ALLBEEF said:


> I'd like to know where you find all of these "facts" you list above?



Which of the facts are incorrect?


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