# Strange find



## GaH2Os

Yesterday I was exploring in the south Altamaha  in my 13' river hawk when I came upon a bit of high ground  surrounded by marsh. It looked like a good place to locate some hogs for next bow season so I took a look around. After about an hour of poking around I cam up on what looked like a blue teeshirt laying under some small trees. When I saw the knot tied in the end of the cloth bag I just knew what was inside. I was right. A 4.5' eastern diamonback. There were no other tracks on the sandy island since the rain several days ago. Whether the bag was lost ,stashed,or what I have no idea. I took several pictures and sent the snake on her way. This is a good snake story-the snake lived.


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## predator

*snake story*

That is a good story most people would have killed the snake, we need them more than we think.


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## Gaswamp

glad to hear a good snake story


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## dawg2

Good for you.  Glad you realized what it was before messing with it.


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## FERAL ONE

way to go !!! i look for snakes all the time to take their pictures but have very little luck. this would have been a great find !!!


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## Al33

Good to read someone else doesn't kill snakes just because they're snakes.


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## Auchumpkee Creek Assassin

wow


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## Rich Kaminski

OK, someone please explain the benefit of an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake to me. They eat rodents, squirrels, frogs, etc. What else do they do besides potentially bite people?
What is the benefit?
Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?
Come on, change my mind about poisonious snakes. I dare you!


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## dawg2

Rich Kaminski said:


> OK, someone please explain the benefit of an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake to me. They eat rodents, squirrels, frogs, etc. What else do they do besides potentially bite people?
> What is the benefit?
> Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?
> Come on, change my mind about poisonious snakes. I dare you!



How many times have you been bitten?


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## Handgunner

dawg2 said:


> How many times have you been bitten?


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## 12gamag

If I see a venomuos snake around my farm he is dead...
If I see a venomous snake when I coon hunting or bowhunting he is dead......
been bit once myself... had my coon dogs, foxhounds and hog dogs bit dozens of times. they killed a couple of really good dogs.   


As for the rat population.....the barn cats on my place keep it under control


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## rjcruiser

I second the fact that this is a bad snake story....the only poisonous snake that I like is a dead one.


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## Randy

The Bible says we are suppose to hate snakes and that is good enough for me.


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## shaggybill

Randy said:


> The Bible says we are suppose to hate snakes and that is good enough for me.



That's a joke, right?

That's quite an odd discovery, GaH2Os. Maybe somebody collected him for a round-up and left him there to pick up later. Good on ya for letting him live.


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## Randy

shaggybill said:


> That's a joke, right?.



Nope.


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## Doc_Holliday23

Genesis 3:15, God speaking to Satan the serpent.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."


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## bulletproof1510

Dead snake


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## germag

Rich Kaminski said:


> OK, someone please explain the benefit of an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake to me. They eat rodents, squirrels, frogs, etc. What else do they do besides potentially bite people?
> What is the benefit?
> Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?
> Come on, change my mind about poisonious snakes. I dare you!



Well, first off, a squirrel _is_ a rodent. Secondly, Eastern Diamondbacks aren't overly fond of frogs. Third, you're less likely to be bitten by an Eastern Diamondback than you are to be struck by lightening. In fact, about 7,000 people are bitten in the United States annually by all venomous snake species combined (including captive exotics)....only about 10 die (about half of those deaths are attributed to Eastern Diamondbacks). By contrast, about 100 die every year in the U.S. from lightening strikes and another 100 or so from bee and other insect stings. Of the total venomous snakebites that occur in the U.S., the vast majority of the victims are people that are either keeping the snakes in captivity or were in the process of catching, handling, or killing the snake in the wild. Accidental and "unprovoked" snakebite in the wild is (comparatively) extremely rare.

"Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?" Well, they could....I suppose it occasionally happens...but what does that have to do with anything? You already sort of answed your own question. They help keep the populations of rodents and rabbits (not a rodent) under control.

Realistically, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to change your mind...there's no point in it. Sometimes folks have these preconceived notions, not really based on any fact or logic....and the attitude is "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up." I won't waste my breath.

BTW....Eastern Diamondbacks are not "poisonous". You can eat all of them you want and you won't die from it. They are venomous. If they bite you, you may be envenomated. There is a difference.


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## germag

Randy said:


> The Bible says we are suppose to hate snakes and that is good enough for me.



As far as the religious aspects...well, I am a man of faith. I believe in God. And,  I have heard many, many times the scripture being used to justify the wanton destruction of snakes, venomous or not....but you have to bear in mind that the scripture has also been twisted and used on many occasions to justify the killing of whole populations of people too. And...on the other side of that coin, there are churches in the northern part of this state that use venomous snakes in their Christian worship. It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it?


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## germag

GaH2Os said:


> Yesterday I was exploring in the south Altamaha  in my 13' river hawk when I came upon a bit of high ground  surrounded by marsh. It looked like a good place to locate some hogs for next bow season so I took a look around. After about an hour of poking around I cam up on what looked like a blue teeshirt laying under some small trees. When I saw the knot tied in the end of the cloth bag I just knew what was inside. I was right. A 4.5' eastern diamonback. There were no other tracks on the sandy island since the rain several days ago. Whether the bag was lost ,stashed,or what I have no idea. I took several pictures and sent the snake on her way. This is a good snake story-the snake lived.



Good job. Obviously someone was collecting snakes for some purpose. There's actually a pretty big demand in the black market for gently collected wild-caught Eastern Diamondbacks. If they've been gassed (from a gopher tortoise burrow) or pinned, they rarely survive. The gas is very damaging to their lungs. If they have been pinned, they almost never will feed in captivity. If they have been gently collected without pinning, they typically (in my experience) do well in captivity. However, _selling_ them is really illegal in Georgia. Gassing gopher tortoise burrows is also illegal, but it's a law that doesn't really seem to be enforced. Gassing usually kills the gopher tortoise (a protected species) in the burrow, as well as gopher frogs (an Endangered species) and several other symbiotic species (species that share the burrow habitat).


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## goob

germag said:


> Well, first off, a squirrel _is_ a rodent. Secondly, Eastern Diamondbacks aren't overly fond of frogs. Third, you're less likely to be bitten by an Eastern Diamondback than you are to be struck by lightening. In fact, about 7,000 people are bitten in the United States annually by all venomous snake species combined (including captive exotics)....only about 10 die (about half of those deaths are attributed to Eastern Diamondbacks). By contrast, about 100 die every year in the U.S. from lightening strikes and another 100 or so from bee and other insect stings. Of the total venomous snakebites that occur in the U.S., the vast majority of the victims are people that are either keeping the snakes in captivity or were in the process of catching, handling, or killing the snake in the wild. Accidental and "unprovoked" snakebite in the wild is (comparatively) extremely rare.
> 
> "Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?" Well, they could....I suppose it occasionally happens...but what does that have to do with anything? You already sort of answed your own question. They help keep the populations of rodents and rabbits (not a rodent) under control.
> 
> Realistically, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to change your mind...there's no point in it. Sometimes folks have these preconceived notions, not really based on any fact or logic....and the attitude is "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up." I won't waste my breath.
> 
> BTW....Eastern Diamondbacks are not "poisonous". You can eat all of them you want and you won't die from it. They are venomous. If they bite you, you may be envenomated. There is a difference.








we cant do anything about lightening, I can however kill a snake. What if my kids were playing in the yard and got bitten by a poisonous snake? Oh, then im gonna refer to this and say oh well it was a nice pretty snake so its okay. NOT! This is a neverending arguement so i will leave it at that and that its not illegal to kill them.  And yes, Ive had snake bite patients, and have seen there extremeties turn black. So its okay? NOT! if I see ANY snake.........its


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## germag

Occasionally kids do get bitten...sometimes when they are playing in their yard. I can remember one very tragic case in Citronelle, Alabama when a 12 year old Down's Syndrome child picked up a large Eastern Diamondback on the sidewalk in front of her front porch and was bitten repeatedly. Everybody was scrambling to relay antivenin to the ER, but as it turned out she didn't make it.

However, more kids are killed in their own yards every year by far by a neighbors pet dog than by rattlesnakes.

Anyway, the discussion has nothing to do with rattlesnakes that are in your yard. Obviously you don't want that. However, that does not mean that it's a good idea to kill every snake you find in the woods miles from your home.

A little common sense is in order here.


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## dawg2

germag said:


> As far as the religious aspects...well, I am a man of faith. I believe in God. And,  I have heard many, many times the scripture being used to justify the wanton destruction of snakes, venomous or not....but you have to bear in mind that the scripture has also been twisted and used on many occasions to justify the killing of whole populations of people too. And...on the other side of that coin, there are churches in the northern part of this state that use venomous snakes in their Christian worship. It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it?



Some Christian churches play with them


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## germag

dawg2 said:


> Some Christian churches play with them



Yep. Well...it's not exactly "playing" with them, but it is (in reality) an extremely foolish and dangerous activity and has been outlawed for years. Many years ago one of the members of one of those churches contacted me through an acquaintance and wanted to obtain some monacled cobras from me to use in those services as well as some rattlesnakes and cottonmouths. Of course, I refused him in no uncertain terms.


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## RJY66

Here is a thought.  Grizzly bears are at least as capable of killing you as a rattlesnake and have indeed killed people.  One of em could knock your head off of your shoulders with one swipe of a paw.  To a lesser degree, so can black bears under the right circumstances.  

Those of you who would kill all snakes, are you in favor of killing all bears?  Do you want all of the wildness stripped from your "wilderness experiences"?  I don't.  If I wanted life without any risk, I would stay home all the time and watch tv , knit, or raise roses.  I certainly would not hunt.  

Its simple.  If you use "common sense", watch your step and leave poisonous snakes the heck alone if you see them, you will never have a problem.  If you are going to poke around the woods in dawn or dusk conditions, wear snake boots for extra insurance.  

If you want to bring religion into it, God put the snakes here for a reason.  He is smarter than we are.  Enough said on that.


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## germag

Exactly.


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## goob

germag said:


> Occasionally kids do get bitten...sometimes when they are playing in their yard. I can remember one very tragic case in Citronelle, Alabama when a 12 year old Down's Syndrome child picked up a large Eastern Diamondback on the sidewalk in front of her front porch and was bitten repeatedly. Everybody was scrambling to relay antivenin to the ER, but as it turned out she didn't make it.
> 
> However, more kids are killed in their own yards every year by far by a neighbors pet dog than by rattlesnakes.
> 
> Anyway, the discussion has nothing to do with rattlesnakes that are in your yard. Obviously you don't want that. However, that does not mean that it's a good idea to kill every snake you find in the woods miles from your home.
> 
> A little common sense is in order here.







I see your point. If I came across a snake miles from my home, that means I came across it, so someone else could come across it too. and yes I'd rather kill a snake than let it go, and so I do. As for bears, there are far fewer bears than snakes. If its legal to kill a bear then more power to ya, it wont bother me a bit.

also I have shot my share of aggressive dogs, including my own.


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## puredrenalin

I avoid them if I can, if they are endangering the family...I take em out....if Im in the woods...I go the other way....They have a place in the food chain too!! LOL!


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## germag

The absolute best policy is to just leave them alone. Walk around them. If the snake is on your property and you feel the need to dispatch it for safety's sake, exercise extreme caution. I have seen an awful lot of people with massive tissue destruction from a bite that could have easily been avoided by simply leaving the animal alone and walking around it. Every one of them wished they could have a "do-over"....they all would have just avoided contact. 

When a snake bites, it is NOT doing anything wrong. It is defending itself. When you go to the woods, you are putting yourself in the snake's territory....he didn't come looking for you. If you are bitten while harrassing, handling, or trying to kill or capture that snake, that's YOUR fault. You asked for it, simple as that. He is a vital part of that environment and there is no reason to remove him from it. Before you molest a snake you find out in the woods, you need to fully understand the risk you are taking. Have a look at this link:

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Snakebite%20Photos/0


There are a lot of photos in there of bites from exotics, but there are some from rattlesnakes, cottonmouths, and copperheads too. Some of the photos are captioned with the taxonomic nomenclature (scientific names). So:

"Crotalus" is a rattlesnake

Crotalus viridis is a Prairie Rattlesnake or one of it's subspecies such as Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific Rattlesnakes.

Crotalus atrox is a western diamondback.

"Mojave" is a Mojave Rattlesnake (_Crotalus scutulatus_). This is one of the most dangerous bites on this continent. It is strongly neurotoxic and is on par with Asiatic Cobra venom.

"E.D." means Eastern Diamondback (_Crotalus adamanteus_). This is one of the most dangerous snakes in the Americas....possibly THE most dangerous. The venom is not as deadly as the Mojave Rattlesnake's venom, drop-for-drop, but it can inject huge quantities of highly destructive venom. This venom is a complex cocktail of strong hemotoxins, cytotoxins, cardiotoxins and neurotoxins.  

Agkistrodon is one of the "moccasins" such as copperheads and cottonmouths. 


Naja, Ammodytes, Vipera, Bitis, etc., are exotics. These are bites that were a result of a momentary lapse of attention while handling captive specimens, and nearly all of these people have at least _some_ training and experience in handling these animals. All of the photos are of bite from captive animals.

Remember that a snake can strike faster than you can possibly react and move to get out of the way. If you misjudge how far that snake can reach or which direction it can strike, it can have devastating results. 

A typical Grade 3 or 4 (grade 5 is fatal) envenomation from a rattlesnake will cost in excess of $100,000.00 (and maybe much more) by the time treatment is done and the victim has recovered as much as he or she is going to. Most often there is extensive permanent tissue damage and loss of muscle tissue, frequently including amputation of fingers or toes (depending on bite location).


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## Swede

Okay, so where are the pics??


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## Ctrimble87

I honestly dont mind rattlesnakes, i dont like them in my yard do to my dughters safety. But on the other hand ive had Cottonmouths come towards me striking. This has happened to 75% of the people in our hunting camp when we are putting stands up.

Cottonmouths are different they would rather strike than move, i will kill a cottonmouth when i see it. I leave Rattlesnakes alone atleast (most of the time) they try to warn you that they are there. 

If any venomous snake is in my yard it is dead!  I walked past 2 rattlers last season and one just turkey season and they all lived another day. Ive had to many occurances of moccasins literally chasing me. And second if i shoot a snake i have very good recipe for it! My dad eats Moccasin's i eat everything i shoot.


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## bigbarrow

Taking a bite from one venomous snake is one to many...Kill them or they could kill you!!!!!!!!


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## Ctrimble87

bigbarrow said:


> Taking a bite from one venomous snake is one to many...Kill them or they could kill you!!!!!!!!



well i also see it as punishment for a snake to let you see it! no matter how many cottonmouths i shoot i will not even put a dent in their population! I consider it population control.


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## germag

BigSwede said:


> Okay, so where are the pics??



There's a link in my post, but here it is again:

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Snakebite%20Photos/0



click it...it should take you right to the photo album pages.


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## Swede

EWWWWWEEEEEE. All I see are people and animals with various body parts missing or falling off.


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## RJY66

Germag, 

A question about cottonmouths.  I don't usually hunt in swamps or near rivers so I have no real first hand experience with them, but you hear and read a lot of stuff. 

I saw a guy on tv once come up on one and aggravate it to make it open its mouth and show the "cotton".  I saw one do the same thing for me when I was a kid.  It is a scary sight!  Anyway the guy kept aggravating the snake and it had its mouth open but the whole time was trying to back up and get away from the guy.  The cottonmouth never did strike at him even though he kept messing with it.  He said that the whole thing that they do with the mouth open was a warning and a defensive posture that people misinterpret as aggression or the snake "standing its ground".  

I have heard different people talk about cottonmouths "chasing them".   Do they really do this or are they trying to get away and people, being scared to death of snakes to start with, let their imaginations run wild?


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## germag

That's all results of snakebite. There are several pages of those pictures there. There are a few photos of a relatively severe Western Diamondback bite that resulted in a fairly extensive fasciotomy. That is a procedure for removing necrotic muscle tissue. In one case that I'm familiar with (Western Diamondback bite), the bite was in the "web" between the index finger and thumb of the right hand. Most of that muscle tissue was removed via an incision across that web on top of the hand. Another incision was made diagonally across the palm of the hand from the base of the index finger to the wrist below the little finger. A third incision was made on the "inside" surface of the forearm from the middle of the wrist at the base of the palm to the middle inside of the elbow joint, the entire length of the forearm. All of the incisions were left open and the fingers were tethered in an extended position via an external fixture that resembles a tennis racquet by stitching through the fingernails and fingertips and tying them off to the fixture. Then once or twice daily the necrotic tissue was scraped out and irrigated (flushed)via the three large incisions. This continued for about 4 days until the necrotic effect of the venom stopped. As I recall, this victim received 22 ampules of Wyeth Polyvalent Crotalid Antivenin (Crofab wasn't available then). When he first arrive at the ER it was no more than 10 minutes after the bite (he was literally right around the corner from the hospital), and he nearly drowned in his own vomit on the gurney in the hall of the ER. He already had Compartment Syndrome so bad that they had to split the skin on all of his fingers to relieve the pressure and allow some blood flow. This man was a trained herpetologist with many years of experience and one of the best there was at what he did.

Folks, it just ain't worth the risk. If you don't just absolutely HAVE to mess with these animals, DON'T! If it's not in your yard, just leave it alone. I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but I gotta try. Even if the snake is in your yard, in reality it is most likely "just passing through". If left alone you would most likely never see it again. If you are convinced that you just gotta get rid of it, KEEP YOUR DISTANCE! A snake can strike about 2/3 of it's body length in general. Remember that a severed head is fully capable of delivering a potentially fatal bite for several minutes. The snake is completely dead, but there is still some nerve activity and a bite reflex can be triggered by touch.

It is NOT necessary to bring the dead (or live) snake to the ER with you in the event of a bite. Trying to do so can place even more people in danger of yet another bite. If it is a venomous snakebite, there is only one antivenin to cover all of the pit vipers (rattlers, "moccasins", and copperheads) anyway. In the event of a possible Coral Snake bite (which shouldn't really ever happen, but it does) all you really need to know is if the snout was blunt and black or pointy and red. Blunt and black is a Coral Snake, pointy and red isn't (assuming it's a native North American species).


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## germag

RJY66 said:


> Germag,
> 
> A question about cottonmouths.  I don't usually hunt in swamps or near rivers so I have no real first hand experience with them, but you hear and read a lot of stuff.
> 
> I saw a guy on tv once come up on one and aggravate it to make it open its mouth and show the "cotton".  I saw one do the same thing for me when I was a kid.  It is a scary sight!  Anyway the guy kept aggravating the snake and it had its mouth open but the whole time was trying to back up and get away from the guy.  The cottonmouth never did strike at him even though he kept messing with it.  He said that the whole thing that they do with the mouth open was a warning and a defensive posture that people misinterpret as aggression or the snake "standing its ground".
> 
> I have heard different people talk about cottonmouths "chasing them".   Do they really do this or are they trying to get away and people, being scared to death of snakes to start with, let their imaginations run wild?



Yeah, the guy you saw was probably Whit Gibbons from the Savannah River Ecology Laboratory. Whit is an excellent "turtle guy" and is known for that in herpetological circles, but is actually an outstanding researcher in all disciplines of herpetology, and is one of the most knowledgeable people in the world with regard to the reptiles, amphibians and crocodilians in the southeastern U.S. He did a study a while back to try to bear out what field herpetologists and lab herpetologist keeping animals in captivity have found about these animals in the course of working with them on a day in and day out basis.

The fact is that their reputation is not really deserved and not really accurate at all. I can't count the numbers of cottonmouths, copperheads, and rattlesnakes I've dealt with over the years and I can say I've never been "chased" by cottonmouth. In fact, in most cases, I've had to chase them to capture them. They will "gape" and show the white lining of their mouth if they feel like they are trapped or can't outrun an aggressor, but will not normally bite unless they are actually picked up (or stepped on, obviously). Even when picked up they don't _always_ bite. The gaping is a defensive reaction....just a warning. But, they are individuals, too and don't all react in the same manner, so to depend on that would be foolish. If he does bite, it can be bad. I've had them approach my boat when they are in the water and actually try to find a way to get on the boat....but they were not being aggressive. I think they just saw it as a place to get out of the water. 

An Eastern Diamondback or Timber Rattler is much the same. He will do everything he can to escape and will bite as a last resort.

A Copperhead is a bird of a different feather. He'll bite. I've found them much more willing to bite than Cottonmouths. Fortunately, a Copperhead won't kill you. It is a very, very unpleasant experience..._exceedingly_ painful, but not deadly. In fact the ER protocol for a Copperhead bite doesn't necessarily include antivenin, except in severe cases to try to keep tissue damage to a minimum.


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## FX Jenkins

RJY66 said:


> Those of you who would kill all snakes, are you in favor of killing all bears?  Do you want all of the wildness stripped from your "wilderness experiences"?



Nope, just snakes...


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## Just BB

germag said:


> Well, first off, a squirrel _is_ a rodent. Secondly, Eastern Diamondbacks aren't overly fond of frogs. Third, you're less likely to be bitten by an Eastern Diamondback than you are to be struck by lightening. In fact, about 7,000 people are bitten in the United States annually by all venomous snake species combined (including captive exotics)....only about 10 die (about half of those deaths are attributed to Eastern Diamondbacks). By contrast, about 100 die every year in the U.S. from lightening strikes and another 100 or so from bee and other insect stings. Of the total venomous snakebites that occur in the U.S., the vast majority of the victims are people that are either keeping the snakes in captivity or were in the process of catching, handling, or killing the snake in the wild. Accidental and "unprovoked" snakebite in the wild is (comparatively) extremely rare.
> 
> "Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?" Well, they could....I suppose it occasionally happens...but what does that have to do with anything? You already sort of answed your own question. They help keep the populations of rodents and rabbits (not a rodent) under control.
> 
> Realistically, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to change your mind...there's no point in it. Sometimes folks have these preconceived notions, not really based on any fact or logic....and the attitude is "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up." I won't waste my breath.
> 
> BTW....Eastern Diamondbacks are not "poisonous". You can eat all of them you want and you won't die from it. They are venomous. If they bite you, you may be envenomated. There is a difference.





Rich, 
BTW he was being "condescending". not "informative" There is a difference. You can reply back about killing them all you want but just use the correct term.


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## Just BB

FX Jenkins said:


> Nope, just snakes...



HIGH FIVE JENX!


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## Just BB

Beautiful brown color on this snake


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## FX Jenkins

germag said:


> The fact is that their reputation is not really deserved and not really accurate at all. I can't count the numbers of cottonmouths, copperheads, and rattlesnakes I've dealt with over the years and I can say I've never been "chased" by cottonmouth. In fact, in most cases, I've had to chase them to capture them. They will "gape" and show the white lining of their mouth if they feel like they are trapped or can't outrun an aggressor, but will not normally bite unless they are actually picked up (or stepped on, obviously). Even when picked up they don't _always_ bite. The gaping is a defensive reaction....just a warning. But, they are individuals, too and don't all react in the same manner, so to depend on that would be foolish. If he does bite, it can be bad. I've had them approach my boat when they are in the water and actually try to find a way to get on the boat....but they were not being aggressive. I think they just saw it as a place to get out of the water.
> 
> An Eastern Diamondback or Timber Rattler is much the same. He will do everything he can to escape and will bite as a last resort.
> 
> A Copperhead is a bird of a different feather. He'll bite. I've found them much more willing to bite than Cottonmouths. Fortunately, a Copperhead won't kill you. It is a very, very unpleasant experience..._exceedingly_ painful, but not deadly. In fact the ER protocol for a Copperhead bite doesn't necessarily include antivenin, except in severe cases to try to keep tissue damage to a minimum.



And they really make nice hat bands ...


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## FX Jenkins

Just BB said:


> Beautiful brown color on this snake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 136478



SSsssssssssssucculent


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## germag

Just BB said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> Rich,
> BTW he was being "condescending". not "informative" There is a difference. You can reply back about killing them all you want but just use the correct term.



Whatever you say.


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## germag

OK folks, I know when I'm wasting my time and breath.  As I've said before, sometimes when people have made up their minds they just don't want to be bothered with facts. No problem.


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## HighCotton

*No*



Randy said:


> The Bible says we are suppose to hate snakes and that is good enough for me.



The Bible does NOT say we are suppose to hate snakes.  It says that we will fear the snake (Satin) (that the snake will bite our heal) because of our sins.

HC


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## Ctrimble87

HighCotton said:


> The Bible does NOT say we are suppose to hate snakes.  It says that we will fear the snake (Satin) (that the snake will bite our heal) because of our sins.
> 
> HC



x2 ill look for the exact location of that verse. But thats how i thought that too.

Maybe my cottonmouth experiences are one of a kind but then agian there is way to many people with the one of a kind expierences like mine.  Also get the normal dog version of "chase" im talking about a snake moving towards you in a way that makes yu back away. its not like you turn around and run and look back and the snake is still following you! You can change my mind on Rattlers and unless i feel like rattle snake for dinner or making a cool mount or something. but you wont change my mind on this And in all of these incidents i speak of i was not harrasing the snake in anyway besides walking though the woods/water to a stand or location. Normally you will never catch a snake off gaurd it usually knows you are there before you know they are.


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## HighCotton

*Biggest Fear*



Ctrimble87 said:


> Normally you will never catch a snake off gaurd it usually knows you are there before you know they are.



Many times, if a snake hears or sees you first (which is the case 99% of the time) the biggest fear is you simply getting too close....... the snake will naturally try to avoid confrontation but you may not give it time or space to do so.  In that case, the snake will strike out.  If you avoid the snake, it will avoid you.

HC


----------



## germag

HighCotton said:


> Many times, if a snake hears or sees you first (which is the case 99% of the time) the biggest fear is you simply getting too close....... the snake will naturally try to avoid confrontation but you may not give it time or space to do so.  In that case, the snake will strike out.  If you avoid the snake, it will avoid you.
> 
> HC



What you are saying is very true, except one small detail...it's hard to hear without ears.  But....even though snakes can't really hear, they can sense vibrations in the ground....they know (most of the time) when a human is approaching and will, as you said, try to escape if given a chance. Even cottonmouths. I would say that if you see 10 snakes in a year, you probably walked right past another 50 and didn't even know they were there....and they just simply crawled away from you or held still until you passed.


----------



## germag

Ctrimble87 said:


> x2 ill look for the exact location of that verse. But thats how i thought that too.
> 
> Maybe my cottonmouth experiences are one of a kind but then agian there is way to many people with the one of a kind expierences like mine.  Also get the normal dog version of "chase" im talking about a snake moving towards you in a way that makes yu back away. its not like you turn around and run and look back and the snake is still following you! You can change my mind on Rattlers and unless i feel like rattle snake for dinner or making a cool mount or something. but you wont change my mind on this And in all of these incidents i speak of i was not harrasing the snake in anyway besides walking though the woods/water to a stand or location. Normally you will never catch a snake off gaurd it usually knows you are there before you know they are.



Your cottonmouth experiences are not "one-of-a-kind", but are probably just misinterpreted.


----------



## Ctrimble87

germag said:


> Your cottonmouth experiences are not "one-of-a-kind", but are probably just misinterpreted.



The snake moves toward me lifts and opens mouth (cottonmouth) i step back and moves towards me again same procedure.  The snake never gets a third chance its shot. If a snake stays in one place even with its mouth open i will go around it but when it moves toward me then its a little to aggresive for me, and needs to be gone. Sorry I'm not gonna go out of my way to go past a aggresive snake and I'm also not gonna turn around and run. Its not something that is hard to understand nor interpret. 

If youve ever moved though a marsh or swamp and had a snake swim towards you. In this case im shooting first asking questions later i can get out of the way of even an aggressive snake on land but in water im not taking the chances.

I really dont know how to misinterpret this but it can be done.


----------



## germag

Ctrimble87 said:


> The snake moves toward me lifts and opens mouth (cottonmouth) i step back and moves towards me again same procedure.  The snake never gets a third chance its shot. If a snake stays in one place even with its mouth open i will go around it but when it moves toward me then its a little to aggresive for me, and needs to be gone. Sorry I'm not gonna go out of my way to go past a aggresive snake and I'm also not gonna turn around and run. Its not something that is hard to understand nor interpret.
> 
> If youve ever moved though a marsh or swamp and had a snake swim towards you. In this case im shooting first asking questions later i can get out of the way of even an aggressive snake on land but in water im not taking the chances.
> 
> I really dont know how to misinterpret this but it can be done.



I have collected cottonmouths in every state in which they occur. Hundreds of them. I have had them, on rare occasions, display the exact behavior you describe. However, if you stand your ground, they will invariably give way and try to crawl off. They will not just come over and bite you. In fact, a black racer will exhibit the same sort of behavior on occasion, too. They may make short lunging charges at a perceived threat, but it's a bluff. They are really just trying to bluff you into leaving. There are venomous snakes in the world that will, unprovoked,  aggressively attack and bite humans..... but cottonmouths just aren't one of them. In fact there's none like that in the U.S. at all. Now, a captured cottonmouth is a different story, especially the juveniles. When he feels he's being restrained he can be very dangerous, biting at everything that comes close enough to him...and they have a lightening fast strike.

Another thing is that if you did happen to step on one and he bit defensively, there's about a 50-50 chance that he wouldn't inject any venom. That's known as a dry bite.


----------



## dawg2

germag said:


> I have collected cottonmouths in every state in which they occur. Hundreds of them. I have had them, on rare occasions, display the exact behavior you describe. However, if you stand your ground, they will invariably give way and try to crawl off. They will not just come over and bite you. In fact, a black racer will exhibit the same sort of behavior on occasion, too. They may make short lunging charges at a perceived threat, but it's a bluff. They are really just trying to bluff you into leaving. There are venomous snakes in the world that will, unprovoked,  aggressively attack and bite humans..... but cottonmouths just aren't one of them. In fact there's none like that in the U.S. at all. Now, a captured cottonmouth is a different story, especially the juveniles. When he feels he's being restrained he can be very dangerous, biting at everything that comes close enough to him...and they have a lightening fast strike.
> 
> Another thing is that if you did happen to step on one and he bit defensively, there's about a 50-50 chance that he wouldn't inject any venom. That's known as a dry bite.



I never back up from a black racer.  But they can put on a show


----------



## Ctrimble87

germag said:


> I have collected cottonmouths in every state in which they occur. Hundreds of them. I have had them, on rare occasions, display the exact behavior you describe. However, if you stand your ground, they will invariably give way and try to crawl off. They will not just come over and bite you. In fact, a black racer will exhibit the same sort of behavior on occasion, too. They may make short lunging charges at a perceived threat, but it's a bluff. They are really just trying to bluff you into leaving. There are venomous snakes in the world that will, unprovoked,  aggressively attack and bite humans..... but cottonmouths just aren't one of them. In fact there's none like that in the U.S. at all. Now, a captured cottonmouth is a different story, especially the juveniles. When he feels he's being restrained he can be very dangerous, biting at everything that comes close enough to him...and they have a lightening fast strike.
> 
> Another thing is that if you did happen to step on one and he bit defensively, there's about a 50-50 chance that he wouldn't inject any venom. That's known as a dry bite.



Yes i have heard this before but i figure if he wants to do this then my bullet will bite back! I don't take chances with them! Its completely understand able but still something i don't take chances with. And yes i do know of a dry bite i have never heard it associated with cottonmouths only rattlesnakes, but i guess it applies with all the pit viper species>is this correct<


----------



## 12gamag

HighCotton said:


> Many times, if a snake hears or sees you first (which is the case 99% of the time) the biggest fear is you simply getting too close....... the snake will naturally try to avoid confrontation but you may not give it time or space to do so.  In that case, the snake will strike out.  If you avoid the snake, it will avoid you.
> 
> HC



that aint always true

I coon hunt atleast 4 nights a week year round-I hunt swamps and hard woodbottoms. I run into probably 3 or 4 venoumus snakes every night during the summer. One thing that I have learned from personal experance is that snakes dont always avoid you-SOMETIMES THEY COME AFTER YOU!! I have had it happen twice to me- and seen the chasing dogs countless times.....cottonmouths seem to be the worst to chase you. First time it happen I didnt see him swimming toward me as I was crossing a beaverdam and I Got bit. a friend saw it..... the second one was swimming full speed right toward me and I ended is life with a 44 mag rat shot load.


----------



## germag

Ctrimble87 said:


> Yes i have heard this before but i figure if he wants to do this then my bullet will bite back! I don't take chances with them! Its completely understand able but still something i don't take chances with. And yes i do know of a dry bite i have never heard it associated with cottonmouths only rattlesnakes, but i guess it applies with all the pit viper species>is this correct<



Yes. Most, if not all, will dry bite a fairly high percentage of the time when biting defensively. When they bite out of anger or to kill prey, I would say they probably never dry bite. This is one reason that people keeping venomous snakes in captivity have such a high rate of severe envenomation with bites from their captive animals. A very large percentage of those bites are feeding response bites, for which the snake will probably always envenomate.


----------



## Ctrimble87

germag said:


> Yes. Most, if not all, will dry bite a fairly high percentage of the time when biting defensively. When they bite out of anger or to kill prey, I would say they probably never dry bite. This is one reason that people keeping venomous snakes in captivity have such a high rate of severe envenomation with bites from their captive animals. A very large percentage of those bites are feeding response bites, for which the snake will probably always envenomate.



Gotcha i just never associated this with cottonmouths good info.


----------



## Just BB

"Stand your ground with a Cottonmouth"
.. AAAAAaa oh my sides are aching...AAAAAAa OOOOOOOOoo...say that again.......AAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## Ctrimble87

Just BB said:


> "Stand your ground with a Cottonmouth"
> .. AAAAAaa oh my sides are aching...AAAAAAa OOOOOOOOoo...say that again.......AAAAAAAAAAAA



like i said i give them 2 chances to slither away then


----------



## germag

Just BB said:


> "Stand your ground with a Cottonmouth"
> .. AAAAAaa oh my sides are aching...AAAAAAa OOOOOOOOoo...say that again.......AAAAAAAAAAAA



What's the matter? Are you scared?


----------



## germag

Just BB said:


> "Stand your ground with a Cottonmouth"
> .. AAAAAaa oh my sides are aching...AAAAAAa OOOOOOOOoo...say that again.......AAAAAAAAAAAA



Listen, I have kept snakes and worked with snakes (and lizards and turtles and crocodilians) for more than 40 years. I've had over 200 of them in my collection at one time. I've forgotten more about them than you'll ever hope to know. I've kept and handled the most dangerous snakes in existence....mambas, king cobras, gaboon vipers, taipans, you name it. I've dealt with more cottonmouths than you will ever see in your entire lifetime if you live to see 200 years. I know how they act and react. If you want to live with ignorance and old wives tales and rely on that as fact, then knock yourself out. I was trying to offer a little actual knowledge and the benefit of actual real-life experience. If you don't want that, I could really care less. Do what you want and believe what you want.


----------



## RJY66

First off, thanks germag for your perspective and knowledge.  I know it has to be frustrating for someone like you to be so passionately interested in creatures that are universally reviled for all kinds of not so good reasons.  
People with your knowledge and expertise will change some minds but not all.  Its like that with most anything.  

I used to be very afraid of snakes.  I had nightmares about them as a teenager.  Once I had such a vivid dream that a cobra was in my room that I was up looking for the shotgun and shells before I woke up enough to realize it was not real.  Luckily, Dad kept his guns locked up!  

I inherited this fear from my parents and grandparents.  My grandaddy raised 9 kids that ran the swamps, woods and fields of the lowcountry of South Carolina and was always terrified that one of them would "get on a snake".  Oddly enough, none of his kids ever had a problem even though some of their home places were crawling with snakes.  This did not stop him from being a relentless snake killer and instilling his fear in his kids and on down the line.  The only time any of them came close to getting bit was when trying to kill a snake with a stick.  Point being, fear taught from birth that becomes tradition is very hard to overcome. I still get a bolt of fear in the gut when I see a snake.  I liked to have uh "soiled myself" last summer when a grass snake surprised me in my garden.  As soon as I realized what it was I had to laugh at myself.  

My opinion of venomous snakes changed because that guy "Okeefenokee Joe" put on a show at my high school way back in the 80's.  I was more impressed with the actual behavior of the snakes themselves than I was with his ability to handle them.  They seemed to want to just crawl back into their boxes.  He really had to antagonize a big rattler to get it to strike at him for the crowd.   This flicked on the lightbulb in my head to the fact that though snakes can be dangerous, they are not out in the woods just waiting for me to walk by so they can bite me. My nightmares ceased.  

This was further reinforced by seeing other guys on tv doing more of the same.  I even saw a documentary about the "snake handler" churches.  They were very sloppily handling all these rattlers, in the middle of a congregation of people singing, clapping, dancing, playing guitars, beating tambourines, and just all around raising sand. I could hardly blame a snake for getting a little nervous.  They would have made ME nervous!   Maybe the Lord was looking out for them but the nature of the snakes they were handling was in their favor.  North American venomous snakes are simply not all that aggressive.  Eventually, some of them were bitten and died, but you have to wonder how many episodes of that insanity went on without anything happening.  I bet if they had been using mambas instead of diamondbacks, they would have all died out very quickly!

I wear my snake boots when I go hunting because snakes are very hard if not impossible to see if they don't move.....especially in low light.  I want insurance in the unlikely event that I step on one.  But, the fact is that I have never seen a venomous snake while deer hunting and I go quite a lot and have been going a long time.  Matter of fact, I have not seen a rattler in the wild in nearly thirty years.   I think in a lot of areas I frequent, they are probably endangered due to loss of habitat and people killing them.  

Grandaddy would be disappointed, but I have come to the conclusion that fear of snakes is riduculously overblown.  That still does not make it easy to get over.


----------



## blackbear

That old rattler will be waiting for you when you come back.Just dont get to close to him or step on him...I allways put on snake chaps or boots while going into a swamp or high Grass areas in warm weather/especially bow season...My bad dream is for me or to have someone with me ,get bit in the neck from a big tree limb hanging viper.......There are some big ones out there,biggest i ever saw was right at Allatoona and little river landing/big around as a beer can diamond back/fresh hit by a car dead,,,Oldest boy shot one with his bow in archery season right at dark when he was 16 years back,stepped over it thinking it was a stick,got  pic of him holding it by back porch light at night,its a old 6 ft.long timber rattler /cane brake and had 15 rattles,neck shot him with a thunderhead 125!!! He was coming to tell me he had hit a doe,we had to trail her in the dark with a keroseane lantern & every where i looked i thought i was seeing another snake in the dark after seeing the big monster he just brought in/spooky.......We lost her blood trail on another clubs line after going thru the biggest thicket i have ever seen,I really wanted to find that deer for him because it was his first,It was about 1 in the Morning before we had to give up,we never did find her,for all i know she lived to old age!Those old Handcock county deer are tough!! He finally got his first,a double on does at the parent/child hunt at eufaula NWR!! It was PRICELESS!!!


----------



## flintdiver

Black Bear, you got the county record and range extension for diamondbacks if you saw one at Allatoona/Little River. They haven't  been recorded north of say southern Talbot Co./Taylor county. Thats 2 hr's and 150 miles south of your sighting. Probably a big Timber rattler. Or more likely a large black ratsnake with alot of pattern on him.


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## bowhunter59

I too commend the gentlemen for letting the snake go.  There is a place and a purpose for all creatures, altho just where skitters, chiggers, and sand gnats fit in is still a mystery to me.

Got a friend who says there are only two kinds of snakes....chicken snakes and rattlesnakes.  If you see a snake crawling along with a chicken in his mouth, then it is a chicken snake.  All others are rattlesnakes and should be killed.  For too long this has been the norm for most people.  Mosquitoes, bees, bears, and idiots behind the wheel of cars kill way more people than snakes.


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## BuckHunter 34

pm me some of thoz pics


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## allenww

Wait!     

Please tell me how you undid the knot in the t-shirt.

wa


----------



## kg4ghn

allenww said:


> Wait!
> 
> Please tell me how you undid the knot in the t-shirt.
> 
> wa




That's really not hard to do.

Just don't grab the "sack" part of the shirt and you are all good.

I always used old pillow cases when I went snake hunting, I used to always have 3 or 4 in the truck just in case.


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## allenww

*Snake sacks*

Maybe I'll come watch you do it once before I try it.


----------



## Sterlo58

bowhunter59 said:


> Mosquitoes, bees, bears, and idiots behind the wheel of cars kill way more people than snakes.



Good point. Should we kill all bees. That would leave our ecosystem in one heck of a mess. Wear snake boots and watch where you step.


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## Twenty five ought six

I've never had a snake chase me, but when I fished the Altamaha River regularly (and adjacent swamps), I had several cottonmouths that refused to give ground.

One in particular that I remember was a big old boy sunning on a log across a slough that I wanted to fish. I bumped the log several times with my boat, and it didn't faze him at all.  He just curled up, and showed that mouth.  I went and found another slough.

You would see them swimming in the river quite a bit.  If the boat was mid-river (away from the bank), they would swim toward the boat, but I always thought they were just looking for a place to get out of the water.  I would just hit the water with a paddle, and they would submerge and go away.

I was always surprised how many rattlesnakes you would find on the inland side of the salt marshes.  If there was a really high tide, it was not unusual to find one floating among the spartina.


----------



## GAnaturalist

Twenty five ought six said:


> I've never had a snake chase me, but when I fished the Altamaha River regularly (and adjacent swamps), I had several cottonmouths that refused to give ground.
> 
> One in particular that I remember was a big old boy sunning on a log across a slough that I wanted to fish. I bumped the log several times with my boat, and it didn't faze him at all.  He just curled up, and showed that mouth.  I went and found another slough.
> 
> You would see them swimming in the river quite a bit.  If the boat was mid-river (away from the bank), they would swim toward the boat, but I always thought they were just looking for a place to get out of the water.  I would just hit the water with a paddle, and they would submerge and go away.
> 
> I was always surprised how many rattlesnakes you would find on the inland side of the salt marshes.  If there was a really high tide, it was not unusual to find one floating among the spartina.



That sounds just about right along with my experience. I have had cottonmouths swimming right towards me, but I don't think they even saw me, they turned with a slap of the canoe paddle (although I have never seen one dive, but I am sure they must since they eat fish, etc.). 

I read later that cottonmouths have very poor vision. They rely on sense of smell to find game, and their heat sensing pits to acquire food, not really their eyes. I should look that up........


----------



## Mojo^

You'd probably be surprised at just how many times you have come within striking distance of a snake and never knew he was there. In the wild I leave them alone. They go their way and I go mine. They are doing far more good than they are harm. Without them, rats and mice would take over and the disease that would follow would be severe to say the least. Same as at home provided they are a non-venomous species. However, if a venomous snake happens to invade my personal space like a 4 foot timber rattler did in my garage several years ago, he has to go. This thing actually struck at my wife and nearly nailed her but he was agitated because he had wandered inside to find a cool spot during the day and then couldn't get out to hunt after dark.

A few years ago I got to witness first hand what can happen when an ecosystem is upset. There were 700 acres behind my house that were developed into a subdivision. Gone were the snakes, coyotes and fox that help keep the rodent population in check. As a result, rats and chipmunks nearly took over my neighborhood. I still have problems with wood rats wanting to build nests in my riding lawn mower. Snakes have a job to do and they do it well if left alone.


----------



## moodman

Kill it Please kill it!


----------



## iwatmi

A rattlesnake crawled in my concrete dogpen and killed two of my best deerdogs. That's reason enough for me to kill every one I see from now on. It's not like the dogs got bitten out in the woods where the snake lives. The snake came to where the dogs live.


----------



## MERCing

Germag, 
  I'm not sure you "helped your cause" any by posting the link   but it does help show that not ALL venomous snake bites are fatal. Some are actually minor with minimum localized swelling and the dry bites may be nothing more than the equivalent of a couple of pin pricks.
  I had seen those before.... and some even worse while doing some personal research. I've almost been bitten several times while hunting or just out exploring and just wanted to know what to expect in case I ever get bitten. I usually wear snake boots now when doing so. 
 All non-venomous snakes get a free pass including re-locating them a short distance if necessary to prevent someone else from harming them but I don't usually extend that practice to the venomous species.  Just hard for me to warm up to that idea


----------



## sknight

I read 1 time that 85% of snake bites occur on the hands. What does that tell you.


----------



## Sweetwater

Al33 said:


> Good to read someone else doesn't kill snakes just because they're snakes.



I didn't know there was someone else out there beside me that felt that way.


----------



## Sweetwater

RJY66 said:


> First off, thanks germag for your perspective and knowledge.  I know it has to be frustrating for someone like you to be so passionately interested in creatures that are universally reviled for all kinds of not so good reasons.
> People with your knowledge and expertise will change some minds but not all.  Its like that with most anything.
> 
> I used to be very afraid of snakes.  I had nightmares about them as a teenager.  Once I had such a vivid dream that a cobra was in my room that I was up looking for the shotgun and shells before I woke up enough to realize it was not real.  Luckily, Dad kept his guns locked up!
> 
> I inherited this fear from my parents and grandparents.  My grandaddy raised 9 kids that ran the swamps, woods and fields of the lowcountry of South Carolina and was always terrified that one of them would "get on a snake".  Oddly enough, none of his kids ever had a problem even though some of their home places were crawling with snakes.  This did not stop him from being a relentless snake killer and instilling his fear in his kids and on down the line.  The only time any of them came close to getting bit was when trying to kill a snake with a stick.  Point being, fear taught from birth that becomes tradition is very hard to overcome. I still get a bolt of fear in the gut when I see a snake.  I liked to have uh "soiled myself" last summer when a grass snake surprised me in my garden.  As soon as I realized what it was I had to laugh at myself.
> 
> My opinion of venomous snakes changed because that guy "Okeefenokee Joe" put on a show at my high school way back in the 80's.  I was more impressed with the actual behavior of the snakes themselves than I was with his ability to handle them.  They seemed to want to just crawl back into their boxes.  He really had to antagonize a big rattler to get it to strike at him for the crowd.   This flicked on the lightbulb in my head to the fact that though snakes can be dangerous, they are not out in the woods just waiting for me to walk by so they can bite me. My nightmares ceased.
> 
> This was further reinforced by seeing other guys on tv doing more of the same.  I even saw a documentary about the "snake handler" churches.  They were very sloppily handling all these rattlers, in the middle of a congregation of people singing, clapping, dancing, playing guitars, beating tambourines, and just all around raising sand. I could hardly blame a snake for getting a little nervous.  They would have made ME nervous!   Maybe the Lord was looking out for them but the nature of the snakes they were handling was in their favor.  North American venomous snakes are simply not all that aggressive.  Eventually, some of them were bitten and died, but you have to wonder how many episodes of that insanity went on without anything happening.  I bet if they had been using mambas instead of diamondbacks, they would have all died out very quickly!
> 
> I wear my snake boots when I go hunting because snakes are very hard if not impossible to see if they don't move.....especially in low light.  I want insurance in the unlikely event that I step on one.  But, the fact is that I have never seen a venomous snake while deer hunting and I go quite a lot and have been going a long time.  Matter of fact, I have not seen a rattler in the wild in nearly thirty years.   I think in a lot of areas I frequent, they are probably endangered due to loss of habitat and people killing them.
> 
> Grandaddy would be disappointed, but I have come to the conclusion that fear of snakes is riduculously overblown.  That still does not make it easy to get over.



Okefenokee Joe came to my elementary school, Winston elementary. He had a cottonmouth draped over his shoulders.


----------



## GAnaturalist

A couple of years ago I had a incredibly mean timber rattler that was kept for a short time in an encloser that was under an outdoor shed that had open windows (dnr maintance shed), and as you approached from the parking lot the snake would start rattling. 

The parking lot was 200ft. away, and you could hear him start rattling from that distance. 

so......I know from that experience it is possible that a rattlesnake can see you from 200ft away. Really. 

I was amazed. So, thats my snake story.


----------



## slip

i don't mess with snakes unless i have to...i've come up on my fair share of snakes in the woods, and im sure i've come up on more then i know, if i see them i always just go the other way and i've never been bitten, heck i almost sat on one in the woods, and still wasn't bitten.

the only snakes i've ever killed was a few small ones under a rubber mat outside about 3 feet from where my mom was just picking weeds...3 or 4 baby cottonmouths..i had to kill them since my dog chase's bee's i would hate to see what he would do with snakes

 i see no reason to kill something i can just walk away from, but thats just me...


----------



## Phoelix

Hate to kinda "hijack" but the subject jarred my memory of something similar.  Several years ago, I was flying my Remote controlled airplane over a field, and of course, the plane went down after I lost site of it...We proceeded to do a search, and encountered a strong stench. A few more feet, in the high grass, I came across a large garbage bag, and not thinking, grabbe the knot and tried to lift it...NO WAY, gotta be 150 pounds, then it hit me all at once, A BODY!!!! At the same instant I could see a knee, and elbows protruding too....I took off running, and did'nt look back, or stick around to see if what I was seeing was real....The next day, the Sheriff's department discovered a body in the same area....creepy....


----------



## GAnaturalist

b717doc said:


> Hate to kinda "hijack" but the subject jarred my memory of something similar.  Several years ago, I was flying my Remote controlled airplane over a field, and of course, the plane went down after I lost site of it...We proceeded to do a search, and encountered a strong stench. A few more feet, in the high grass, I came across a large garbage bag, and not thinking, grabbe the knot and tried to lift it...NO WAY, gotta be 150 pounds, then it hit me all at once, A BODY!!!! At the same instant I could see a knee, and elbows protruding too....I took off running, and did'nt look back, or stick around to see if what I was seeing was real....The next day, the Sheriff's department discovered a body in the same area....creepy....



So you thought you found a human body, and you didn't immediatly report it ? I would have called someone.....ghostbusters? naaa, just the police.


----------



## Nicodemus

GAnaturalist said:


> A couple of years ago I had a incredibly mean timber rattler that was kept for a short time in an encloser that was under an outdoor shed that had open windows (dnr maintance shed), and as you approached from the parking lot the snake would start rattling.
> 
> The parking lot was 200ft. away, and you could hear him start rattling from that distance.
> 
> so......I know from that experience it is possible that a rattlesnake can see you from 200ft away. Really.
> 
> I was amazed. So, thats my snake story.



You reckon it could see you, or pick up the vibrations through the ground,of your footsteps?


----------



## GAnaturalist

Nicodemus said:


> You reckon it could see you, or pick up the vibrations through the ground,of your footsteps?



Me tread em lightly. 

Na, I don't think she was feeling any vibrations, she was up on a shelve and in a cage, and not laying on the ground. 

Perhaps she became acustom to me approaching from that one direction, so she knew where to look (?). This was a 6ft. timber rattler too. I let her go after keeping her only two weeks. In her scat was squirrel hair! 

My neighbor called me one day to tell me about a big black snake in his back yard that fell from a oak tree with a squirrel. He had watched the whole drama un-fold, the female squirrel attacked the snake when it almost got to the squirrel's nest. The snake wrapped around, fell out, and eventually killed the squirrel on the ground, then tried to eat it but could not get its jaw around the front shoulders. So the snake backed its head off the squirrel and then just crawled off towards the creek, leaving the dead squirrel laying there. That was a 6ft black snake, the same size as the rattlesnake I had. Maybe the rattlesnake had a larger head and jaws to swallow those squirrels, thats my guess.


----------



## Tpr 325

I hunt and fish the Oconee River here in Dublin, Ga.  If you don't believe  a snake will  bite you and your dogs your living ina dream world..this time of year they will try to get into the boat with you,, there not getting in the boat to go fishing,,,I  don't mind  killing a snake at all...........


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## sandman74

There are only three kind of snakes I hate.  They are dead snakes, alive snakes, and fake snakes.  All three will be in bad shape around me and whoever is holding them!!!!  Bad idea to mess with something like that t-shirt.  Glad you did not get hurt.


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## sandman74

And I agree with Jonathan!!!


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## riskyb

i dont kill all snakes that i come into contact with, but will dispatch any that i think need to be, due to their location to my home and loved ones that simple


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## Capt Quirk

RJY66 said:


> Here is a thought.  Grizzly bears are at least as capable of killing you as a rattlesnake and have indeed killed people.  One of em could knock your head off of your shoulders with one swipe of a paw.  To a lesser degree, so can black bears under the right circumstances.
> 
> Those of you who would kill all snakes, are you in favor of killing all bears?  Do you want all of the wildness stripped from your "wilderness experiences"?  I don't.  If I wanted life without any risk, I would stay home all the time and watch tv , knit, or raise roses.  I certainly would not hunt.


Here's another thought along those lines... People kill more people than almost all the critters put together. But that is supposed to be illegal. And it is the overpopulation and deforestation that is forcing more wild animals into populated areas, by taking away their homes.


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## Fred_Duce

Ill save a snake over a human any day of the week esp. if that human is a known snake killer. We are in their habitat not them in ours. Im sure most of you snake haters would have a fit if I hated deer and insisted on killing every one I saw. If your gonna eat it then have at it other wise I hope he bites you. Ps. Indigo snakes are protected and you get a BIG fine and Jail time for messin with one.


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## goob

Fred_Duce said:


> Ill save a snake over a human any day of the week esp. if that human is a known snake killer.


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## wmahunter

Fred_Duce said:


> Ill save a snake over a human any day of the week esp. if that human is a known snake killer.



So are you suggesting that a snakes life if more valuable than a humans? 
Crawl out from "under a rock" as your location shows, and try again. Sounds to me like you might fit in well with greenpeace, hsus, peta, or some other nutty group like that.


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## goob

wmahunter said:


> So are you suggesting that a snakes life if more valuable than a humans?
> Crawl out from "under a rock" as your location shows, and try again. Sounds to me like you might fit in well with greenpeace, hsus, peta, or some other nutty group like that.



 Thats exactly  what I was  thinking  but I was  too hard to say it  !


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## Lowjack

germag said:


> Well, first off, a squirrel _is_ a rodent. Secondly, Eastern Diamondbacks aren't overly fond of frogs. Third, you're less likely to be bitten by an Eastern Diamondback than you are to be struck by lightening. In fact, about 7,000 people are bitten in the United States annually by all venomous snake species combined (including captive exotics)....only about 10 die (about half of those deaths are attributed to Eastern Diamondbacks). By contrast, about 100 die every year in the U.S. from lightening strikes and another 100 or so from bee and other insect stings. Of the total venomous snakebites that occur in the U.S., the vast majority of the victims are people that are either keeping the snakes in captivity or were in the process of catching, handling, or killing the snake in the wild. Accidental and "unprovoked" snakebite in the wild is (comparatively) extremely rare.
> 
> "Do they kill coyotes or bobcats?" Well, they could....I suppose it occasionally happens...but what does that have to do with anything? You already sort of answed your own question. They help keep the populations of rodents and rabbits (not a rodent) under control.
> 
> Realistically, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to change your mind...there's no point in it. Sometimes folks have these preconceived notions, not really based on any fact or logic....and the attitude is "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up." I won't waste my breath.
> 
> BTW....Eastern Diamondbacks are not "poisonous". You can eat all of them you want and you won't die from it. They are venomous. If they bite you, you may be envenomated. There is a difference.



That's all well and good until you are the one bitten and the one that dies,


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## Whiteeagle

I have yet to find conclusive evidence in the Bible that the snake is such a villian. My KJV refers to the serpent as the rep of satan, so maybe instead of the snake maybe a lizard of some sorts. I figure most "fear" of snakes comes from a deep rooted scare tactic in the back of peoples minds. I don't like horses and have a phobia, can we eradicate all of them? I don't have a probleb wiyh snakes.


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## TBurnham

Anyone care to point out the spot in the Bible where it says that the serpent is our modern day snake? Serpent has been used to describe quite a few animals over time. Id just like to see where it makes it a point and shows that serpent is refering to a snake.


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## TBurnham

My fear is bees......I mean screeam and run like a girl scared. BUT I have the COMMON SENSE to know that all bees should be killed. We had a honey bee hive in our building where I do my carving. Did I kill them. No! COMMON SENSE here again told me to get in contact with a bee keeper......what do you know he was all to glad to come and get them. COMMON SENSE. Which for the most part it has always been for people with out COMMON SENSE to kill what they do not understand.
  All that said.....I can however understand the snake in the yard being a dead snake. I do think it would be pretty good time spent to know what snakes you have in your local area and know the difference between them BUT it is the lazy way to not learn that and just kill any snake. Yes BTW it is illegal to kill any non venomous snake in Georgia.


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## death-from-above

germag, you a wasting your time.  Ignorance about snakes is rampant in todays society.  Maybe one day people will realize what we know...


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## Hardwood

If its poisonous, and I see it, Its dead. Black snakes are the only ones with a free pass for me.


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## wmahunter

Hardwood said:


> If its poisonous, and I see it, Its dead. Black snakes are the only ones with a free pass for me.



 Just because it is not a black snake doesn't mean it is a copperheadedrattlemoccasin and should be killed. I let lots of others go too but have caught enough and had enough for pets when I was a kid to know the difference.


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## gin house

germag said:


> As far as the religious aspects...well, I am a man of faith. I believe in God. And,  I have heard many, many times the scripture being used to justify the wanton destruction of snakes, venomous or not....but you have to bear in mind that the scripture has also been twisted and used on many occasions to justify the killing of whole populations of people too. And...on the other side of that coin, there are churches in the northern part of this state that use venomous snakes in their Christian worship. It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it?



theres idiots in everything, does that mean i want to hug a rattler? nope.   The constitution itself has been twisted by many idiots also, do you agree with all the screwed up laws that have been made by trampling it? nope.   see the pattern?


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## fishinjunkie

bulletproof1510 said:


> Dead snake



If it it within 8 feet of me,the family or the dog and it is not hightailing the other way, I'm with ya Bro! When hiking the first shot in the tube is snake shot for a reason. I am not taking any chances.


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## DREWSKI3000

stepped on many poisonous snakes never been bitten. i kinda believe in karma when it comes to snakes. the person going around killing everything that slithers will get bit before the guy who lets them be. most snake bites happen after the person has seen them and well after they have had the chance to leave it be.


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## redneck_billcollector

RJY66 said:


> Germag,
> 
> A question about cottonmouths.  I don't usually hunt in swamps or near rivers so I have no real first hand experience with them, but you hear and read a lot of stuff.
> 
> I saw a guy on tv once come up on one and aggravate it to make it open its mouth and show the "cotton".  I saw one do the same thing for me when I was a kid.  It is a scary sight!  Anyway the guy kept aggravating the snake and it had its mouth open but the whole time was trying to back up and get away from the guy.  The cottonmouth never did strike at him even though he kept messing with it.  He said that the whole thing that they do with the mouth open was a warning and a defensive posture that people misinterpret as aggression or the snake "standing its ground".
> 
> I have heard different people talk about cottonmouths "chasing them".   Do they really do this or are they trying to get away and people, being scared to death of snakes to start with, let their imaginations run wild?



I know this is an old thread....but you are right in the last part of your statement.  I had an experience this past week with an individual I know who says cotton mouths chase people.  I said no they don't. He said I will prove it, I have pictures of one I killed this summer that chased me. He considers himself an outdoors man and says he grew up in swamps, he is my age, in his mid-50s. He showed me a picture, it was what I thought it would be, a banded water snake.  They are aggressive, and will chase you.  I literally live in a swamp on the Flint River in South Ga. I have cotton mouths in my yard all the time, they open their mouths and that is it.  It almost takes an act of congress to get them to strike and the DO NOT CHASE YOU.  I catch cotton mouths all the time to remove them from my yard or the road leading to my house so misguided people won't kill them.  I am seeing people posting in this thread that if they see a snake, they will kill it.  If you are that scared of snakes, stay out of the woods, you belong in the city.  I have taken away permission from people who hunt on some prime property I own on the Flint river in Mitchell Co because they killed a snake...they are forever barred from my land, simple as that.  My attitude is if you do not take the time to learn and appreciate all creatures whether you hunt them or not, you need to take up another pass time.


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## redneck_billcollector

By the way, in GA it is illegal to harm a non-venomous snake.  I have seen people prosecuted for it too.  Ironically, I am a defense attorney who is in high demand and I will not represent anyone charged with harming a snake, just like I won't represent a person charged with child molestation or shooting a dog.  The very first pet I ever had that was all mine was a green snake when I was around 6 years old...I have a soft spot in my heart for snakes.


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## Josey

I have noticed that it seems like the irrational fear or hatred of snakes is a learned behavior.  As most irrationality is.

Killing a venomous snake in one's house or yard isn't irrational.  I can understand someone doing that, but I wouldn't do it myself.  I would relocate it to the woods.  Because I have the means to do it, and I am not one to kill something just because it is trying to live.

Killing a venomous snake out in the wild is just wrong.  Unless you are fast enough to kill it as it is striking you.  Nobody is that fast.  No snake in the SE (or probably this entire country) is going to attack a person.  Defending and attacking are 2 different things.  And no, cottonmouths do not chase people.

Killing non-venomous snakes is very wrong, for many reasons.

I find them fascinating creatures too.  Not cute or cuddly.  Just interesting.


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## Nicodemus

It doesn`t happen much, but ever once in a while you can change the mindset of a someone who feels snakes need to be killed.

I miss ol` Gerald.


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## Capt Quirk

Usually, you can't change ignorance. It is a learned behavior. People have an irrational fear of things, and that is something that is very hard to change. "Snakes will kill you!", and so they spread that fear to others. Yes, some snakes can kill you, but so can cars, guns, and of course, other people. It is more reasonable to fear people, because they don't always act rationally.


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## Josey

On 2nd thought, I didn't go about trying to change some people's minds in the right way.  I will edit my post above to take out my insulting words.


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## Josey

Capt Quirk said:


> Usually, you can't change ignorance. It is a learned behavior. People have an irrational fear of things, and that is something that is very hard to change. "Snakes will kill you!", and so they spread that fear to others. Yes, some snakes can kill you, but so can cars, guns, and of course, other people. It is more reasonable to fear people, because they don't always act rationally.




Along those lines, the reason I always have a sidearm on me while in the woods isn't really because some animal might try to kill me (even though I _irrationally_ tell myself that).  The odds of that are infinitesimal.  It is about 100x more likely that a person would try to kill me in the woods.  And about 1,000x times more likely than that on the street.


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## Capt Quirk

Josey said:


> Along those lines, the reason I always have a sidearm on me while in the woods isn't really because some animal might try to kill me (even though I _irrationally_ tell myself that).  The odds of that are infinitesimal.  It is about 100x more likely that a person would try to kill me in the woods.  And about 1,000x times more likely than that on the street.



I started carrying in my woods, when I first heard a big cat. Since that time, I have seen what folks refer to as a panther (NOT black!), and yes, I do have an irrational fear of them. I know I wouldn't likely stand a chance against one unarmed, and my odds are slightly improved with a gun. Would one attack me unprovoked? Not likely, but I don't want to find out. Snakes on the other hand, don't scare me. I have literally walked by many Rattlers, and half of them didn't even rattle, none of them struck out at me. One of them I had to shoot, because it found it's way to where my dogs were chained up, and there was too much commotion to try and capture it safely. I put 5 rounds into it, and it still didn't strike once.

On the other hand, a friend of mine was attacked by a fox once, but it was likely rabid. That is a different story.


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## redneck_billcollector

Capt Quirk said:


> I started carrying in my woods, when I first heard a big cat. Since that time, I have seen what folks refer to as a panther (NOT black!), and yes, I do have an irrational fear of them. I know I wouldn't likely stand a chance against one unarmed, and my odds are slightly improved with a gun. Would one attack me unprovoked? Not likely, but I don't want to find out. Snakes on the other hand, don't scare me. I have literally walked by many Rattlers, and half of them didn't even rattle, none of them struck out at me. One of them I had to shoot, because it found it's way to where my dogs were chained up, and there was too much commotion to try and capture it safely. I put 5 rounds into it, and it still didn't strike once.
> 
> On the other hand, a friend of mine was attacked by a fox once, but it was likely rabid. That is a different story.



I have spent time in woods where Grizzly Bears, Wolves and Mountain lions live (Alaska, Montana and Idaho, along with the Olympic Peninsula, lots of lions there).  Never really been afraid of one killing me or attacking me.  I do pay attention to my surroundings though.  I have come across Grizzly Bears and I did have a gun, but it never entered my head to point it at the Bear or get ready to shoot.  Same with Black Bears.  I will be heading to  lion country next week for some fishing, if the weather permits....the point is, I respect everything in the woods, I do not fear them.  Just pay attention, and be aware, that is what an outdoors man is supposed to do anyhow.  Were I in need of food, yeah, I would harvest a rattlesnake...but I know enough how to get food where it will probably not be ever required...and I like eating rattlesnakes, there just are not that many now in my neck of the woods.


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## Capt Quirk

I'm with you Redneck, I don't think it likely I'd be attacked... but if'n it did happen, I know that cat would have the upper paw. And I am aware of my surroundings, mostly. I do tend to get caught up in thought while enjoying the beauty and peace in the woods. But no, I'm really not afraid of many animals, most of them are just doing what they are supposed to do. As long as they aren't disturbed, they would really rather not interact with people. Of course, I have also never come across a bear either.


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## NCHillbilly

Capt Quirk said:


> I'm with you Redneck, I don't think it likely I'd be attacked... but if'n it did happen, I know that cat would have the upper paw. And I am aware of my surroundings, mostly. I do tend to get caught up in thought while enjoying the beauty and peace in the woods. But no, I'm really not afraid of many animals, most of them are just doing what they are supposed to do. As long as they aren't disturbed, they would really rather not interact with people. Of course, I have also never come across a bear either.



I have shared the woods with bears all my life, they don't bother me. I respect them, but I don't go around afraid of them. Same with venomous snakes and other critters that I might encounter out there. The main reason I tote a pistol in the woods is critters like Gary Hilton.


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## The black stick of death

I'm not realy scared of anything in the woods but I'm wary of them I know things out there can put a hurting on you but they usualy don't set out to do you harm you just could be in the wrong place at the wrong time with a person or an animal I worry about walking up on a group of hogs or a sow with piglets in the dark more than anything just because it's surprising


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## The black stick of death

But I don't kill snakes unless there somewhere around the yard or where they could bite sombody else I usualy try to play with the non venomous ones and then send them on the way I did watch the farm cat stand off with a big black snake the snake escaped after a few traded blows with the cat


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