# The many faces of what scripture says.



## gordon 2 (Jul 18, 2017)

I have to wonder sometimes if scripture is not a foundation for man to build another Tower of Babel.

We know that revelation is progressive both in scripture but also in the individual, and that what some part of scripture says to an individual today might be a bit or alot different tomorrow, or after a considerable span of time.

We know that the New Testaments indicates that some in the time Herod and Caiaphas at least had ears ( heard) yet listing to the same message and they yet understand radically different some from  others.

There might be a general belief that doctrines might account for how we understand scripture.

There might be a case to the amount we give some scripture literal meaning as opposed to symbolic meaning, and to the very words of Jesus also as literal and symbolic that it would account for how we understand scripture.

Now unlike the Tower of Babel which in my mind goes vertical and steady to the heavens before it falls and forms a multitude of languages...and cancels the tower project,  scripture as the source material of an as like tower does not cause man to fall, or to  form new speak, but rather it seems to me to hand man each a piece of our Lords burial shroud as a building block, as opposed to living with God of which to build from.

 Is our  varied understandings of scripture the closest we will get to God this side of heaven? Is our fellowship in Christ a witness of what we seen in scripture or what we see in Christ? Is our testimony to God what we see in the light of scripture? Or Christians is it due to what we see in Christ alone?

Is heaven the sinner's gain and in heaven who's book is opened? What/who informs us? Why is it that we all seem to have heavenly ears and yet we live with multitudes of hearing disturbances-- echos, garbles,... etc... Or the spirit is willing, and the body is weak...? Is our fellowship a ministry to that which only the resurrection will cure?


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 18, 2017)

I think you been hanging out with me too much.


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## hobbs27 (Jul 18, 2017)

Acts 17: 10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth. 

I think this is a good example of how we should be. The scriptures are our standard of proof.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 18, 2017)

Can you imagine all of those councils such as in Nicea?


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## gordon 2 (Jul 19, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Acts 17: 10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
> 
> I think this is a good example of how we should be. The scriptures are our standard of proof.



Do we test today if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth? If we test if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth today , are we not testing if Jesus is the truth?

Searching scripture  for us is it not in some cases a searching too far not at all in the spirit the Bearians used it? Rather, our model is the reformation model where reformers used scripture against the "religious" gone too far which is not at all in the way or  similar in motivation as the Bereans used it. 

The Bereans felt they needed to check scripture regards the Gospel itself because it was very new.


 The individual and isolated use of scripture today has become for some individuals almost a obsessive sport and to community a new religious more disruptive to the body than the religious it was originally meant to counter. 

Was scripture Abraham's standard of proof ? Now about Noah? Did Noah need scripture to cork his boards? For Moses, was scripture his motivation? Did Jonah grumble and pout on scripture? What is the difference with the law written in one's heart and the law in text surveyed by the mind? Do the people of God operate from the heart or the text?


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## hobbs27 (Jul 19, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Do we test today if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth? If we test if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth today , are we not testing if Jesus is the truth?


 No the scripture is not what we test.  The Bereans had old Testament scrolls to test Paul with... If a man comes to us today teaching a doctrine we can use the scriptures and Paul's Epistles to test the truth of that doctrine..  Billy Graham or the Pope and all the creeds must be held to a truth in scripture.  Scripture is over all doctrines,  creeds,  and men's positions in the churches. 


gordon 2 said:


> Searching scripture  for us is it not in some cases a searching too far not at all in the spirit the Bearians used it? Rather, our model is the reformation model where reformers used scripture against the "religious" gone too far which is not at all in the way or  similar in motivation as the Bereans used it.
> 
> The Bereans felt they needed to check scripture regards the Gospel itself because it was very new.


with thousands of different denominations,  I think scripture is just as important in determining the truth of the gospel as it was to the Bereans.  Unlike you,  I think the Gospel truth is coming out more and more as time goes by,  and the biggest errors and false doctrines were in the second to third century...and again the the 1800's...lots of false doctrines invented in the 1800's for some reason. 


gordon 2 said:


> The individual and isolated use of scripture today has become for some individuals almost a obsessive sport and to community a new religious more disruptive to the body than the religious it was originally meant to counter.
> 
> Was scripture Abraham's standard of proof ? Now about Noah? Did Noah need scripture to cork his boards? For Moses, was scripture his motivation? Did Jonah grumble and pout on scripture? What is the difference with the law written in one's heart and the law in text surveyed by the mind? Do the people of God operate from the heart or the text?



God spoke to Abraham,  Moses,  and Jonah. 

I think I can remember at least one time each of them grumbled and pouted to God about what He asked of them. 

As for the heart or text... The text is heart.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 19, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> ... the biggest errors and false doctrines were in the second to third century...



Such as ...?


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## hobbs27 (Jul 19, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Such as ...?



 Intermingling Christ's church with the Roman Empire.  The church should be separate from all governments. There's many more IMO,  but each one could be it's on thread.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 19, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Intermingling Christ's church with the Roman Empire.



That was the 4th century.


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## hobbs27 (Jul 19, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> That was the 4th century.



True. I make that mistake often , thanks for calling me out,  now it will stick and error fixed.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 19, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> We know that revelation is progressive both in scripture but also in the individual, and that what some part of scripture says to an individual today might be a bit or alot different tomorrow, or after a considerable span of time.



How do we know revelation is progressive in scripture?

While mankind is progressive, I'd argue that scripture hasn't changed one bit since it was written.  

Society has attempted to change it in an attempt to mold it to it's liking.  However, scripture, like God, is immutable and it is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness (II Tim 3:16).


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## gordon 2 (Jul 19, 2017)

I meant is as explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_(Christianity)


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 19, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> I meant is as explained here:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_(Christianity)



I can see that. At first there was no written scripture, just God talking directly to men. Things God said were eventually written on stone tablets, then some forms of early paper, scrolls, etc. The people in Genesis didn't have Leviticus. The people of Matthew's time didn't have Romans, etc.

Not that God doesn't talk directly to people but eventually each generation had a little more revelation.
Especially when Paul showed up. 
Each earlier generation had prophesy but not the event. Then after the event more revelation was revealed by scripture.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 19, 2017)

Later still the was the The First Council of Nicaea. Men supposedly inspired by God to figure out exactly what God would want us to hear from him or better yet what was from God and discard the rest.

I'm not sure, I guess it's possible, for God to reveal more to man later than this through some means. Then at that point The Third Council of Nicaea will be summoned.


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