# DJ on Horseweed



## RBM (Sep 6, 2011)

That is Deane Jordan on Horseweed. Yes he has a new one. Both from the edible and medicinal uses and the fire uses. He states that it is too fragile for the firebow in the article but the video he says its alright for the firebow (Huh?). I say, BUNK. Find one thick enough and you are in business. Even the thin ones down to pinky size will work on the firebow. If you use the thinner ones, just remember to spin and don't use pressure except enough to hold it in place or it WILL break. You will know if its too thin because it will bow (bend) out on you. Or use smaller length ones. Or put a Horseweed tip into a hollow tipped Elderberry spindle.

Article
Horseweed, Mare’s Tail

Video
Eat The Weeds: Episode 130: Horseweed


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 7, 2011)

Horseweed works fine as a bowdrill spindle, you just have to find a good fat stalk, not too hard. A piece of cane makes a good spindle for interchangable tips, too. Horseweed is by far my favorite handdrill spindle material.


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## Bone pile (Sep 7, 2011)

Is hourseweed and ironweed the same?
Roger


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## dawg2 (Sep 7, 2011)

Bone pile said:


> Is hourseweed and ironweed the same?
> Roger



No.  Ironweed has violet/purple flowers.


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## RBM (Sep 8, 2011)

I don't know about "favorites" on the firebow as I tend to use what is available, so not just Horseweed. I also use some other stalky plants like Goldenrod and Dog Fennel. If I can find a thick enough Velvetleaf to use its wood for a board, then I put Goldenrod on it. I get a really quick coal on that combo.

I have used Dog Fennel on dead and dry Grape Vine and got a coal and I have used it on SEASONED Yellow Pine or Shortleaf Pine. Pine is tricky to use as a board. I have to do some searching to find the "right" piece. Dead and dry, solid, light colored (not dark colored indicating resin or water), and resin free. Now resin may not be dark colored either. It may be light colored. So I have to really look a piece of pine over and smell it to tell if I can use it or not. But if such a piece can be found, Dog Fennel works really well on it. I use this combo a lot just because it is so abundant.

I also use Yucca a lot and it tends to work on just about any board I may choose.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 8, 2011)

Wingstem/Crowns Beard on trumpet creeper. Wingstem harvested in early Nov. I have never tried anything better.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 8, 2011)

Horseweed on yucca is hard to beat. I have gotten thumb size coals with only 1/4 pass hand drill. Lots of materials work. Baccharis, yucca, mullien, yucca, horseweed, yucca,, boxelder, yucca, clematis, yucca, cedar, yucca, cottonwood, yucca, willow - did I mention yucca - all works great. There are many others....loblolly pine works great if you pick the young shoots that have not had time to produce alot of gum that will only work as a lubricant and prevent the friction neccessary for fire. I recently identified wingstem up in Cherokee N.C. and collected some. I have not tried it yet but look forward to trying it. Just in case you didn't put 2+2 together - I start all my new students off with yucca on yucca - always consistent results.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 8, 2011)

Oops! I got in a hurry. Sorry. Too much wine! Basswood, Dog Fennell, Goldenrod, even poison ivy (I'm just not that hard up for fire materials), did I forget yucca.?


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## Nugefan (Sep 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:


> Oops! I got in a hurry. Sorry. Too much wine! Basswood, Dog Fennell, Goldenrod, even poison ivy (I'm just not that hard up for fire materials), did I forget yucca.?



What about yucca ....


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## bam_bam (Sep 9, 2011)

Nugefan said:


> What about yucca ....



I heard once it was pretty good to use....


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## RBM (Sep 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> I start all my new students off with yucca on yucca - always consistent results.



Yeah, well down here we only have Yucca Filamentosa and it works fine for a spindle but not for a board. It is just too soft for a board. So I would imagine that other varieties might be a little harder and better to use as spindle and board. So maybe you have something like "Spiny Yucca" or some other kinds up there. We do have a few more yucca varieties but they are not as common in the wild or they are ornamentals. Like Spanish Bayonets (Yucca aloifolia), Yucca elephantipes, and Yucca gloriosa that are used as an ornamental but are rare in the wild.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:


> Horseweed on yucca is hard to beat. I have gotten thumb size coals with only 1/4 pass hand drill. Lots of materials work. Baccharis, yucca, mullien, yucca, horseweed, yucca,, boxelder, yucca, clematis, yucca, cedar, yucca, cottonwood, yucca, willow - did I mention yucca - all works great. There are many others....loblolly pine works great if you pick the young shoots that have not had time to produce alot of gum that will only work as a lubricant and prevent the friction neccessary for fire. I recently identified wingstem up in Cherokee N.C. and collected some. I have not tried it yet but look forward to trying it. Just in case you didn't put 2+2 together - I start all my new students off with yucca on yucca - always consistent results.





chehawknapper said:


> Oops! I got in a hurry. Sorry. Too much wine! Basswood, Dog Fennell, Goldenrod, even poison ivy (I'm just not that hard up for fire materials), did I forget yucca.?





It seems like  I remember when I timed a certain somebody, in front of a very large crowd, and said individual, from the time he started to twirl a cold spindle, to the time he had a fire in his hand, was 7 seconds flat.  

Horseweed on yucca, I do believe.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 9, 2011)

RBM, The vast majority of what I use is filamentosa. I have used various species from the east coast to the west coast and points in between and find all yucca species to be very consistent. The "hardness" can be determined by you in regards when you collect it. If you wait until late winter or early spring, the wood has degraded and will be softer. Cut the stalks whenever there is no more than say - about 6" of green at the bottom or shortly after it has turned completely brown. Let it dry and you are in business. I use the larger stem bottoms for the board and the upper straighter sections for the spindle with either hand drill or bow drill. I have had success with cutting the stalks in the field and getting a coal on the first attempt right beside the plant I cut it from. I don't split the stalk - simply flatten the top, gouge a starter hole, burn in the hole, cut the notch and spin out a coal. Depending on the hardness of the piece I might get 1-3 coals out of each hole.


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## dutchman (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben, any advice on the right way to do the notch? I have heard/read that the notch is very important and if it ain't right, you'll have an uphill battle getting a coal to fall out...


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## Trefer (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben, you should try yucca....i hear it works ok...


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## chehawknapper (Sep 9, 2011)

Dutch, you have heard correctly. The best way to describe it is probably 1/8 of a pie. The point needs to be almost but not quite to the center. If the notch is too narrow the fine dust will clog up and not fall to whatever you are using to recieve it (piece of bark, dry leaf, bit of leather,etc.) Too wide, and you are losing friction. Really too wide and it will not stay in the burned hole especially with bow drill. I always widen the bottom of the notch to make sure the heated dust is getting enough oxygen. Remember - heat, fuel and oxygen - gotta all be there. Also, make sure that the edges of the notch are clean with no fibers sticking out that would catch the falling dust. Since I usually use yucca for my board, I am making a new hole and notch every few coals. Some prefer a harder board material so that they aren't constantly making a new hole and notch. Since the majority of my fires are for demo and educational purposes, I prefer to show how to make the hole and notch as part of the complete process.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:


> I recently identified wingstem up in Cherokee N.C. and collected some. I have not tried it yet but look forward to trying it. Just in case you didn't put 2+2 together - I start all my new students off with yucca on yucca - always consistent results.



Wingstem will usually fold in on itself if cut in the summer. Oct-Nov. seems ideal, when the seeds are falling off. Past that time will be some rot, mildew, etc. It is close to goldenrod and primrose in use. 

I got to like Verbesina so much that I started growing the different species, but found out that it takes several years before they can grow to the right size, perennial plants.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 9, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> It seems like  I remember when I timed a certain somebody, in front of a very large crowd, and said individual, from the time he started to twirl a cold spindle, to the time he had a fire in his hand, was 7 seconds flat.
> 
> Horseweed on yucca, I do believe.



That is really fast !


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## RBM (Sep 10, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> RBM, The vast majority of what I use is filamentosa. I have used various species from the east coast to the west coast and points in between and find all yucca species to be very consistent. The "hardness" can be determined by you in regards when you collect it. If you wait until late winter or early spring, the wood has degraded and will be softer. Cut the stalks whenever there is no more than say - about 6" of green at the bottom or shortly after it has turned completely brown. Let it dry and you are in business. I use the larger stem bottoms for the board and the upper straighter sections for the spindle with either hand drill or bow drill. I have had success with cutting the stalks in the field and getting a coal on the first attempt right beside the plant I cut it from. I don't split the stalk - simply flatten the top, gouge a starter hole, burn in the hole, cut the notch and spin out a coal. Depending on the hardness of the piece I might get 1-3 coals out of each hole.



Ah. So you are cutting it green or just after and letting it cure out. So it is harder at that early stage? I will give it a try. Too late for this season as they are already long past that stage. I will have to wait until next season. I already prep the Yucca boards and spindles as you describe. I just know its too soft after it goes woody or sometimes worms have eaten out the pith. Too bad it only works at a certain time of year if that is the case.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 10, 2011)

What is just as bad, if you don't thoroughly heat up the stalk to kill the yucca moth larva in them, they can show up at very inopportune times to literally "squish" out your coal! The timing really isn't that tight. I have gathered it at all times of the year with success. When it has degraded and become soft, back off on the downward pressure and increase speed - it will still work.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 10, 2011)

Ga. Nat. - I found the wingstem in Cherokee this summer. I cut only last years' stalks. Have not tried them yet. Don't really remember where I put them. Hope I can still recognize them. Are they too far gone being that old? Never tried verbena before either. I realize I left out others in the list - paw paw, cattail, red cedar, sweetgum, tulip poplar, cypress, evening primrose, mimosa. Lots of materials work.


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## RBM (Sep 10, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> What is just as bad, if you don't thoroughly heat up the stalk to kill the yucca moth larva in them, they can show up at very inopportune times to literally "squish" out your coal! The timing really isn't that tight. I have gathered it at all times of the year with success. When it has degraded and become soft, back off on the downward pressure and increase speed - it will still work.



Well I have not gotten it to work all times of the year, at least not on itself when it is too soft. I will try it again with speed when it is soft but I have not gotten it to work even with just speed in the past. I know what you mean about the worms.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 11, 2011)

chehawknapper said:


> Ga. Nat. - I found the wingstem in Cherokee this summer. I cut only last years' stalks. Have not tried them yet. Don't really remember where I put them. Hope I can still recognize them. Are they too far gone being that old? Never tried verbena before either. I realize I left out others in the list - paw paw, cattail, red cedar, sweetgum, tulip poplar, cypress, evening primrose, mimosa. Lots of materials work.



You should be able to find wingstem anywhere in Georgia. I would just cut some next month. Last years stuff will not work well. 
Verbesina is the genius. There are many species, at least 3 in Georgia, maybe more ? They are all called "wingstem". I seem to favor Verbesina alternifolia (alternate leaf arrangement, found in the mountains). 
Goldenrod, primrose, horseweed, all seem to favor being cut at the end of their season. 

Here is a video of wingstem in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ56XQ_TrGA


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## chehawknapper (Sep 11, 2011)

I have not found wingstem anywhere in S.W. Ga. yet. I am glad you clarified the genus for me. I thought you meant verbena and I was going to have to take a new look at that to find something that had a chance of working.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 11, 2011)

Well, if you can't find any in the next month or so, I could always mail you some. I will get back to you on here. Damon


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## RBM (Sep 11, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> Baccharis, yucca, mullien, yucca, horseweed, yucca,, boxelder, yucca, clematis, yucca, cedar, yucca, cottonwood, yucca, willow - did I mention yucca - all works great.



Baccharis. I think that is the stuff I call "stink bush."  If it is the same thing, the wood really stinks like a sewer when it burns. I have not been able to get a coal from it either after many tries on the firebow. Not sure if I am talking about the same stuff as the link below though. It looks the same, leaf, leaf arrangement, stems, wood, seed disperse method, etc. I don't recall seeing the flowers at the moment, maybe tiny white ones? It has deep furrows in the bark at the thicker end down at the base of the trunk.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=BAHA


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## chehawknapper (Sep 12, 2011)

That is it. My Dendrology pofessor taught it to us as Ocean Myrtle. It is almost a weed species. I have a hand drill of it I carry in my quiver that works great. I gives a real fine dust that holds the ember for a long time. I had used it for arrow shafts for years and never thought of trying it for fire until I went out to Rabbitstick around '96. They have a species out west that is called seep willow that everyone loves. So when I got back home, I looked up the genus, realized we at least had several species of the genus here and gave it a try - works great!


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## Nicodemus (Sep 12, 2011)

GAnaturalist said:


> That is really fast !





Ol Ben (Chehawknapper) works good under pressure. 

That was an excellent demo on hand drill fire. That crowd walked away somewhat in awe.


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## RBM (Sep 12, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> That is it. My Dendrology pofessor taught it to us as Ocean Myrtle. It is almost a weed species. I have a hand drill of it I carry in my quiver that works great. I gives a real fine dust that holds the ember for a long time.



Okay, I guess I have the right plant. Are you using it on itself or on a different board? Its some pretty foul smelling smoke and wood. I will keep trying to get a coal with it.


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## chehawknapper (Sep 12, 2011)

As usual for me, I am using a yucca fireboard.


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## RBM (Sep 12, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> As usual for me, I am using a yucca fireboard.



Okay. I have been using it on itself and it has not worked. So I guess I will try it on some other boards.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 12, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Ol Ben (Chehawknapper) works good under pressure.
> 
> That was an excellent demo on hand drill fire. That crowd walked away somewhat in awe.



I might be able to get a coal that fast, but not a coal and a flame. 

What tinder was used ?? or better yet, what is the "fastest" tinder you have used ??


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## Nicodemus (Sep 12, 2011)

GAnaturalist said:


> I might be able to get a coal that fast, but not a coal and a flame.
> 
> What tinder was used ?? or better yet, what is the "fastest" tinder you have used ??





I think the tinder bundle was crushed pine needles for that particular fire. I think. They are the fastest tinder I`ve used. 

In the past, I used to use dried cattail fluff as an extender, epsecially if I was usin` crushed cedar bark, and other coarse tinders. I had to quit that though. I have too much whiskers and mustache, for all those fluff embers to be floatin` around me. 


Just my experience too, it seems like tow fiber draws the most moisture of any tinder I`ve ever used.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 12, 2011)

Ahh, yes, I have used long leaf pine needles. I found many of them crushed in a parking lot and thought, "man that is soft and fluffy". (Waycross, GA). 

This has got me wanting to make a speed video.....


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## chehawknapper (Sep 12, 2011)

The fastest to flame bundle I have ever used was dead Spanish moss but you better back it with something else - pine straw, cedar, palm fiber, etc. Once it catches, it burns so fast it will be gone before you can transfer it to your fire lay.


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## RBM (Sep 12, 2011)

Fastest to flame for me would have to be Palmetto stump (bud) fibers found under the shucks (bootjacks). Dead and dry Spanish Moss goes up really quick too but I think the Palmetto fibers beat that and you don't need to back Palmetto fibers. Dead dry grass and pine needles are pretty good also.


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## GAnaturalist (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok, I will be on Cumberland Island again in a month where I can collect all of that.


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