# Does a believer go to heaven the moment they die?



## Hunting Teacher (Sep 26, 2005)

While I was running this AM at 5:30 I got to really wondering about if a person with a personal relationship with Jesus goes to heaven the moment they die. 
Scripture appears to my feeble mind to say yes and no. 
Jesus says to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Yet in Revelation we are told"The dead in Christ will rise first."
Lazarus in the old testament was seen in heaven by the rich man in big toebig toebig toebig toe. Yet Lazarus in the new testament was raised from the dead after three days. I can't believe that Jesus called him out of heaven to come back.
Please understand I am not in any way saying the bible contradicts itself. I'm saying my weak mind doesn't understand it all.
I want to believe and think I do that at the moment of death on this earth that Jesus takes our hand and carries us to go home with him.
What do you believe God's word teaches about this?
P.S PLEASE, no arguments about this issue. I'm simply asking each persons own understanding of scripture.
Teach


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 26, 2005)

Does our salvation depend on what we believe???     LOL

Bandy


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## Randy (Sep 26, 2005)

My personal belief is that you go immediately.  Why would He wait to accept you is that is what your life here is all about?  Scriptures do not help.  But remember they should be taken literally even if they "appear" to conflict.


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## Randy (Sep 26, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Does our salvation depend on what we believe???     LOL
> 
> Bandy


Yours appear to and according to you mines does as well.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 26, 2005)

I believe that if you believe that Jesus was God's son and that God raised Him from the dead....you will be saved.   As long as you believe that I believe that you are/will be saved.   I don't believe that one's beliefs on evolution or baptisms affect that.

Bandy


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## Hunting Teacher (Sep 26, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Does our salvation depend on what we believe???     LOL
> 
> Bandy



Bandy,
Where did that come from? 
If you'll look at my post you'll see I said "According to scripture what do you think happens?"
I really don't see what you are asking. 
BTW Our salvation  MOST DEFINITELY depends on what we believe.
Teach


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 26, 2005)

Teach,

It was a lame attempt at humor!!!   LOL   Sorry about that!

 

Bandy


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## GeauxLSU (Sep 26, 2005)

If our souls are timeless were we with him before we were born?  
I don't even have a guess at your question.  It would certainly not 'make sense' to have to wait for anything but 'making sense' is of course according to my very limited mind when it comes to such incredibly mind boggling things as eternity.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't believe Lazarus was in Heaven, if he was, how could the rich man see him?  I believe Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:23).

Scripture says that judgement is yet to come:

Acts 17:31, NIV. "For He has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead."

Revelation 20:12, NIV. "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

Revelation 3:5, TLB. "Everyone who conquers will be clothed in white, and I will not erase his name from the Book of Life, but I will announce before My Father and His angels that he is Mine."


Are those not saved immediately sent to heII?:

Revelation 20:15, NIV. "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."


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## dutchman (Sep 26, 2005)

I believe that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I get this notion from II Corinthians 5:8.  I believe the transformation to be instantaneous.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 26, 2005)

I believe that the 'saved' go to a place that the bible calls 'paradise', and that this place is different than heaven.  

II Cor 12 refers to one being called up to paradise, and the thief on the cross was to be with Jesus in paradise that day.   I don't think Jesus went to heaven after he died.

my 2 cents for what it's worth...

Bandy


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## reylamb (Sep 26, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> I believe that the 'saved' go to a place that the bible calls 'paradise', and that this place is different than heaven.
> 
> II Cor 12 refers to one being called up to paradise, and the thief on the cross was to be with Jesus in paradise that day.   I don't think Jesus went to heaven after he died.
> 
> ...


I agree with Bandy on this one.  I personally do not feel anyone went to Heaven until after Christ died and rose again, and there is Scripture to support that belief.  It was not until after the ressurection of Christ that we had victory over death.


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## RJY66 (Sep 26, 2005)

Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord!", and also "to live is gain, to die is Christ!"

I agree that Lazarus was not in heaven.  You can call it "Abraham's Bosom",  or what the Jews refer to as Sheol or the grave.  I don't think it was a place of torment, as it was separated from where the rich man was.  Until Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected, these souls were not able to go into heaven.  I believe that when Jesus died, he freed these souls from whatever place this was.


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## Keith48 (Sep 26, 2005)

Hunting Teacher said:
			
		

> Lazarus in the old testament was seen in heaven by the rich man in big toebig toebig toebig toe. Yet Lazarus in the new testament was raised from the dead after three days. I can't believe that Jesus called him out of heaven to come back.


 
These were two different characters. The Lazarus that Jesus called from the grave was a real man. The other one was used in a parable.

Also, the Bible says that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," so that should answer your question.


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## blindhog (Sep 26, 2005)

RJY66 said:
			
		

> Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord!", and also "to live is gain, to die is Christ!"
> 
> I agree that Lazarus was not in heaven.  You can call it "Abraham's Bosom",  or what the Jews refer to as Sheol or the grave.  I don't think it was a place of torment, as it was separated from where the rich man was.  Until Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected, these souls were not able to go into heaven.  I believe that when Jesus died, he freed these souls from whatever place this was.



Yes I agree.  Before the resurrection of Jesus, saved ones went  to paradise, located in the bowels of the earth, as is big toebig toebig toebig toe. A holding place so to speak.
This story of lazurus is telling us about the conditions there, somewhat.

After the resurrection Jesus took those in paradise to heaven, where a saints goes upon the instant of death today.


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## dutchman (Sep 26, 2005)

THunter said:
			
		

> Now, how does that jive with those cremated, I don't know, but with God all things are possible.  Really doesn't matter though, I'm saved, and whatever He has planned is just fine by me.
> 
> THunter



Agreed. 

Regarding those that have had their bodies burned, my take on this is that if God is big enough to create the world and everything in it in six days (and He is), He's more than big enough to assemble a few ashes and give a person their glorified body.


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## Todd E (Sep 26, 2005)

Again, I recommend this read, "The Glory of Heaven".

..................
"Second Corinthians 5:6-8 makes it clear that the believer is ushered directly into the presence of God upon death. Paul argues that "to be absent from the body" is tantamount to being "present with the Lord." Jesus sounded a similar theme when He told the thief on the cross "today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). The paradise Jesus referred to is synonymous with heaven.

However, Scripture also teaches that the believer, while in the presence of the Lord, will not receive his glorified body until a later time. Upon death, our bodies go into the grave and await the second coming of Christ (1 Thess. 4:16), when He will raise and transform them (1 John 3:2).

The apostle Paul speaks of the time when our spirits will be again united with our bodies so that we will no longer be naked (2 Cor. 5:3) but able to live throughout eternity in the form God created us to enjoy. The new body of the Christian is yet future, though each deceased saint is now in the presence of the Lord."


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## red tail (Sep 26, 2005)

I would like to believe that when i leave this earth that I will be in the presences of my savior Jesus Christ. Weather we are in heaven or on the "waiting list". 

I realy don't care wether we go right after we die or if we wait till Jesus returns. As long as I get there It is ok with me.


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## redwards (Sep 26, 2005)

I agree with Todd E's post.

You can also follow this link for answers.
http://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html

This link speaks of what happened to Old Testament believers when they died.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-believers.html

here is the link for this sites Statement of Faith also:
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith.html


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## DS7418 (Sep 26, 2005)

Teach:
 First off,, good post there..
Based only on your original post,, I think
non of us will know for sure till the end.
 And then we can't say,, "see I told you soo"..
At this time I think we just die and stay in the ground.. but maybe I will see something later in life to change my mind. I am open minded to 
things that can be proven,, and I was forced to
go to church as a kid,, so when I got grown and found out the good-book was written my MAN
I was totally messed up for life..LOL..
please don't get upset with me,,, I just wanted to give my opinion on this.
Thanks


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## Keith48 (Sep 26, 2005)

We can be sure because the Word says so!


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## CAL (Sep 26, 2005)

Not being a Bible scholar I can only express what I feel and that is what Paul said about being absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.I think we will transcend in the blink of an eye.I will share this and everyone can decide for themselves!

Three years ago my sister went in for the third bypass surgery.It went bad and she was beginning to have complications.She was put on a breathing machine to help take some of the pressure off her heart.It got even worse if you can imagine.She went to full life support.She would be conscious for a day or two and slip back into unconsciousness.This went on for some almost 4 weeks.A day or two before the Lord came for her she roused up enough to motion for a pencil and paper.With this she scribbled,"I have seen them!Mother,Daddy,Ma&pa,Angels,Lord,Light.They would fly around,beautiful".Having been a part of these happenings,I have to believe my sister saw these things and the Angels came for her.
Whenever she was conscious,anything she wrote made very good sense so I personally think she saw what she wrote.It answers my question anyway.I guess we just have to each believe what we feel.I am not trying to change anyones belief,I think our relationship with the Lord is quite private.


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## Randy (Sep 27, 2005)

This thread is an example of my responses from "my belief" thread.  Here we have many good christians, all reading the same Bible.  Based on these readings and what they have been told by other men, about half believe we go straight to be with God and about half that we wait.  We are reading the SAME BIBLE but good christian men believe they read it differently.  

Again, the most important thing is, it does not matter.  Only one thing matters!  It is not that the WORD is fallible or infallible.  It is that man can not understand everything as it is intended.  Trust in the Lord!


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## Hunting Teacher (Sep 27, 2005)

Todd E said:
			
		

> Again, I recommend this read, "The Glory of Heaven".
> 
> ..................
> "Second Corinthians 5:6-8 makes it clear that the believer is ushered directly into the presence of God upon death. Paul argues that "to be absent from the body" is tantamount to being "present with the Lord." Jesus sounded a similar theme when He told the thief on the cross "today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). The paradise Jesus referred to is synonymous with heaven.
> ...



Thanks Todd and David.
That makes it pretty clear and you used scripture as your proof. 
Teach


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## redneck101 (Sep 27, 2005)

*reply*

Hey, the bible says that your body will go in the ground and be raised when jesus comes back, and your soul is in heaven with him until then. When Jesus comes back you will get your new body combined with your soul. If you need scriptures let me know.


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## HT2 (Sep 27, 2005)

*Teach..........*

IMO...........

"YES"!!!!!!!!  Without question..........

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord!!!!!!


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## Mrs. Bucky (Sep 28, 2005)

I was brought up in church all my life.  My grandmother was one of the best teachers to me as a youth.  She explained to me that to be absent from the body is to be present with God.   In 2 Corinthians 5:8 (NKJV) "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."  My grandmother explained it to me that our souls go to heaven when we die; however, our earthly bodies stay in the ground until the day of God's return, rapture, and then our soul will meet with our new bodies to go into heaven.  That is where some earlier were discussing that the dead in Christ will rise.  I believe our souls go to heaven at the minute we leave our bodies here on earth, but our earthly bodies stay here on earth until the rapture.  You have arised my interest in studying my Bible more to find out the answer.  I will pray for God to reveal through his word to show us the answer.  Anytime I get something on my mind like this I pray for God's guidance and understanding.  So far, he has never let me down.  Pray for his guidance and God will reveal his word to you.


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## raghorn (Sep 29, 2005)

Mrs. Bucky said:
			
		

> I was brought up in church all my life. My grandmother was one of the best teachers to me as a youth. She explained to me that to be absent from the body is to be present with God. In 2 Corinthians 5:8 (NKJV) "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." My grandmother explained it to me that our souls go to heaven when we die; however, our earthly bodies stay in the ground until the day of God's return, rapture, and then our soul will meet with our new bodies to go into heaven. That is where some earlier were discussing that the dead in Christ will rise. I believe our souls go to heaven at the minute we leave our bodies here on earth, but our earthly bodies stay here on earth until the rapture. You have arised my interest in studying my Bible more to find out the answer. I will pray for God to reveal through his word to show us the answer. Anytime I get something on my mind like this I pray for God's guidance and understanding. So far, he has never let me down. Pray for his guidance and God will reveal his word to you.


That's the way it's been taught to me.


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## MudDucker (Sep 29, 2005)

Dutchman nailed it.  At the end of times, our bodies are resurrected and we are given our glorified bodies.


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## cowboyron (Sep 29, 2005)

Seems that is only for the Lord to know as with so many other things. My wife asked our preacher that same question they other day. We are to have a study on this topic at church. Here is some scripture I have looked up: 

1 Corinthians 15: 51-52  Behold I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-

52   in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  

1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

After reading these scriptures makes me believe it will be at the second coming of the Lord


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 29, 2005)

Here's something to think about....

I believe that even if it's a thousand years before the dead in Christ go to heaven,  I don't think we would realize that time has passed.   Bear with me here.    Have you ever been put under with anesthetic?   There is no realization of time passing.    I believe that God could pass a thousand years by me without me realizing it.    

My vote is for the paradise mentioned by Paul in Corinthians.    

Bandy


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## cowboyron (Sep 29, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Here's something to think about....
> 
> I believe that even if it's a thousand years before the dead in Christ go to heaven,  I don't think we would realize that time has passed.   Bear with me here.    Have you ever been put under with anesthetic?   There is no realization of time passing.    I believe that God could pass a thousand years by me without me realizing it.
> 
> ...



Bandy, I'm with you on the passing of time. The 1,000 yrs would be like a blink of an eye.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Oct 1, 2005)

I usually stay out of the discussion threads. Alot of times we wonder about things that in the big picture aren't that important but this morning as I was going to town a song kept going over and over in my mind and I guess it somes up my feeling about the question asked in this thread. The bible says to be absent form the body is to be present with the lord and when I close my eyes in death and my soul leaves this old body I'm going to be absent from the body and present with the lord whether that's paradise or heaven don't matter I'm going to be with the lord.Here are the lyrics to the song I was talking about:
Some Call It Heaven
I Call It Home

John 14:2
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so,
I would have told you. go to prepare a place for you."


                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on. 

                  Somewhere beyond the grave there is a land
                  Where Jesus went to prepare by His own hand.
                  And for the Saved by grace, there is a resting place
                  And in a few more days it will be mine.

                        Chorus
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on.
                        Some call it Paradise, somewhere beyond the skies.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home. 

                  Someone said you can't go back home again
                  And things will not ever be as good as they've been.
                  I've got good news for you, when Heaven comes into view,
                  One glimpse and you'll know the best is yet to come.

                        Chorus
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on.
                        Some call it Paradise, somewhere beyond the skies.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home. 



Some Call It Heaven
I Call It Home

John 14:2
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so,
I would have told you. &nbspI go to prepare a place for you."

                        Intro
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on. 

                  Somewhere beyond the grave there is a land
                  Where Jesus went to prepare by His own hand.
                  And for the Saved by grace, there is a resting place
                  And in a few more days it will be mine.

                        Chorus
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on.
                        Some call it Paradise, somewhere beyond the skies.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home. 

                  Someone said you can't go back home again
                  And things will not ever be as good as they've been.
                  I've got good news for you, when Heaven comes into view,
                  One glimpse and you'll know the best is yet to come.

                        Chorus
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it dreaming, let me dream on.
                        Some call it Paradise, somewhere beyond the skies.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home.
                        Some call it Heaven, I call it home. 
Many years ago I did wonder and worry about something that WAS important. The Lord began dealing with my heart and letting me know I was lost and needed a savior and I bowed my knees in an old fashioned altar and accepted Jesus as my personal savior. I'm glad this salvation buisness is a know so thing there's not enough devils in hades or people on this earth to convince me I'm lost because I was there and know what he put in my heart and I know he lives.(I have failed him alot of times and been chastised alot of times for disobediance.) I hope you have this assurance and if you don't just have a little talk with him and he'll give you just what you need. It sure isn't my intent to argue with anyone who has posted on this thread and this is my one and only post on it. I hope if nothing else the song was a blessing to you.
Dale


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