# Black panthers



## redneck_billcollector (Feb 5, 2010)

I am just curious, does anybody who claims that black panthers exists, and I am talking about cougars, mountain lions, painters or cat o mounts, NOT leopards or jaguars know of anywhere where one has been documented? By documented I mean shot, killed by car, trapped or verified via a biologist or game warden in anyway.  NOT "my grand daddy told me back in the day plenty were killed" or anything along those lines.  I have searched and searched, I have talked to biologist, etc...I have even been to the smithsonian and asked in the natural history section, which has the biggest collection of animals native to north america, and I can not find one single instance where one has ever been documented.

Documented is the key to my question, that means it has been verified through some method other than hearsay.

The reason I ask this, is that I have heard about them my whole life but I have never had anyone prove their existance anywhere in the western hemisphere.  Of course I have heard about "hoop" snakes and other fictional animals too.  I would really like to see some proof that they exist, and I am not talking about in Ga., I am talking about anywhere within their range, and once again I am NOT asking about melanistic jaguars or leopards.


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## Zeus01 (Feb 6, 2010)

my neighbor shot a video of a blueish grey looking large cat with a long tail. I guess if you saw it in the shadows it might have appeared black.


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## Thor827 (Feb 6, 2010)

They used to be common in the southern Appalachians.   They went extinct after the Cherokee introduced the dreaded Wampus Cat. Turns out the two animals were natural enemies, and the Wampus Cat is just a little meaner. At least that's what old Great Grandpa used to say.......


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 6, 2010)

Good luck with that, RBC. It appears that black panthers are very common, but unlike normal-colored panthers, the black ones are immortal and indestructable. Cars and bullets bounce right off 'em. Like vampires, the light wavelengths reflected from their fur makes it impossible to take photos of them. If you do take a photo of one, somehow during the process, it gets changed into a photo of a black housecat, coyote, fox, or dog. 

I stick by my assertion that no one in this country ever saw or heard of a black panther until the real panthers were almost wiped out and  every movie or TV show that had a "panther" in it showed a black leopard. Then they started popping up everywhere. The older generations of my family here in the Smokies who were familiar with panthers as just another animal in the woods never mentioned seeing or hearing tell of a black one.


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## shakey gizzard (Feb 6, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> Good luck with that, RBC. It appears that black panthers are very common, but unlike normal-colored panthers, the black ones are immortal and indestructable. Cars and bullets bounce right off 'em. Like vampires, the light wavelengths reflected from their fur makes it impossible to take photos of them. If you do take a photo of one, somehow during the process, it gets changed into a photo of a black housecat, coyote, fox, or dog.
> 
> I stick by my assertion that no one in this country ever saw or heard of a black panther until the real panthers were almost wiped out and  every movie or TV show that had a "panther" in it showed a black leopard. Then they started popping up everywhere. The older generations of my family here in the Smokies who were familiar with panthers as just another animal in the woods never or hementioned seeing aring tell of a black one.



Dang Hybrids!


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## teamroper91 (Feb 6, 2010)

my brother and i have seen 1 at my house. in north ga


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 6, 2010)

teamroper91 said:


> my brother and i have seen 1 at my house. in north ga



I want some kind of proof, not a sighting.  By reading the threads on here a good 40% of the folks on GON have seen them.


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## PeopleEatingTastyAnimals (Feb 15, 2010)

Wasn't there two up in Philly in election day 08.  One had a club and they were trying to stop people they preceived to vote Replubician with threats and a club.  Legal eagle AG Holder decided to let them go.


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## Thor827 (Feb 15, 2010)

PeopleEatingTastyAnimals said:


> Wasn't there two up in Philly in election day 08.  One had a club and they were trying to stop people they preceived to vote Replubician with threats and a club.  Legal eagle AG Holder decided to let them go.



Menace animals should ALWAYS be put down for safety reasons


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## country_guy9734 (Mar 4, 2010)

i have seen deer cam pics. nothing with my own eyes, sorry


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## Swampagator (Mar 4, 2010)

The black panther is actually a black leopard and these cats are born in the same litter as normally marked cats and also carry the rosette markings. The spotted markings are masked by the darkness of the fur. According to the Cryptozoology folks.


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## Sunshine1 (Mar 4, 2010)

I'd like to see proof myself. Think last year the newspaper here ran an article about a law enforcement officer seeing one near the junior high school . Of course, there's no pictures or video. 

People claim to hear them "scream" in the woods but I've never seen or heard one. Got a couple of friends that are game wardens and they have never seen one dead or alive either.


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## gbryson (Mar 14, 2010)

*Blk. Panther Photo*

See the post made in reply to dead cougar post at about 6:45 Sunday regarding trail cam photo's in Nt. Ga.


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## redneck_billcollector (Mar 22, 2010)

I have seen supposed trail cam pics of "black panthers" and nary a one was a cat, the most common ones I have seen were foxes of all things.  A dead give away is that cougars don't get  slim at the waist (even if starving to death, they have loose skin), only one big cat does that, the cheetah, a fox will though.  I wish someone would post a link to the article mentioned here earlier.  

As for them ever being "common" anywhere that is interesting, melanistic phase anything is never common.  There is at least one of every animal that ever existed in N. America in post columbian times at the smithsonian and there ain't a single black panther (cougar, puma, mountain lion, etc...) in the collection at the museum of natural history, heck they even have a passenger pigeon.


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## MrBull (Feb 14, 2011)

Is it possible that it could be some kind of rare genetic mutation like a pie-balled or albino deer? Just wondering.


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## Lukikus2 (Feb 23, 2011)

Here is an excerpt from wikipedia that may shed a little light on the subject.

"Another possible explanation for black panther sightings is the jaguarundi, a cat very similar genetically to the cougar, which grows to around 30 inches (76 cm) long with an additional 20 inches (51 cm) of tail. Their coat occurs in a reddish-brown phase and a dark grey phase. While their acknowledged natural range ends in southern Texas, a small breeding population was introduced to Florida in the 1940s, and there are rumors of people breeding them as pets there as well. In Central America, they are known as relatively docile pets, as far as non-domesticated animals go. The male jaguarundi's home range can be up to 100 square kilometres (40 sq mi) while the female's home range can be up to 20 square kilometres (8 sq mi). It has been suggested that very small populations of jaguarundi, which rarely venture out of deep forests, are responsible for many or most of the supposed black cougar sightings. While they are significantly smaller than a cougar, differently colored, and much lower to the ground (many note a resemblance to the weasel), memory bias could explain many of the sightings in the southeastern U.S."


I saw a panther in Teneroc, Fl. one moring running down a gravel road as I turned onto it and it immediatly jumped off the side of the road and was gone. This was in low light conditions and it "appeared" to be black. But then again, I've seen deer in low light situations where they appeared darker than normal. This may explain why people say "black" panther. Other than that, they don't exist. The only cat which can be black is a jaguar or puma. But, I will not say there are not any in the U.S. There wasn't peacock bass, armored catfish, snakeheads and exotic African species over here years ago either.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 23, 2011)

I started this thread over a year ago looking for some of the folks who swear they see them behind every tree to put some actual proof that there might actually be some black cougars/panthers....etc.  Every other thread about panthers you get dozens of folks that have seen them or grandaddy killed one.....No proof has been put in this thread yet.   I will come back to it next year....


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## Flaustin1 (Feb 23, 2011)

The only possible way for a cougar to be black is if it is malanistic.  I dont know the odds, but i do know it is much more rare than albinoism.  The odds that thousands of people have seen one are extremely rare.


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## River Man (Apr 25, 2011)

*Documented CAT in Troup County, GA { LaGrange }*

www.wildfelid.com/p7iq/pdf/Hunter-killed_cat_is_Florida_panther_8-5-09.pdf

It's not black, but it is proof of cats of this kind in the area. Have also heard of a few sightings on the outer skirts of town, where new subdivisions have been built in the past couple of years. It is possible as you now have some documentation. Just copy and paste the link.


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## Beartrkkr (May 17, 2011)

River Man said:


> www.wildfelid.com/p7iq/pdf/Hunter-killed_cat_is_Florida_panther_8-5-09.pdf
> 
> It's not black, but it is proof of cats of this kind in the area. Have also heard of a few sightings on the outer skirts of town, where new subdivisions have been built in the past couple of years. It is possible as you now have some documentation. Just copy and paste the link.




It's proof that one cat was in the area.  It's also proof to what happens when people actually see these while hunting.


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## BobKat (May 29, 2011)

My personal opinion on black panthers in GA is this, i believe we have florida panthers no doubt about it. But for there to be a melanistic one there would have to be alot of them, i think there are more than people think there are, and maybe even a couple black ones but theres no way that everyone thats seen is black. iv never seen a panther with my own eyes for sure, i saw a big cat one night but it was dark so for all  i know it could have been a big bobcat. i think jaguargundi is a good possibility of alot of sightings, and even large house cats at a distance, possibly people are seeing normal colored panthers but in dark areas, i just dont believe that everyone people see are black theres no way.


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## Bow Only (Jun 4, 2011)

What is this?

Video must be embedded


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## BobKat (Jun 4, 2011)

Bow Only said:


> What is this?
> 
> 
> According to the video information a black african leopard in albabama which means its an wild cat that got away from somewhere


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## probass (Jun 28, 2011)

*Black Panther in Elberton*

A few years ago my partner and his wife were cruising down Ruckersville Road about 10pm and swore he saw a large black panther on the side of the road.

Had a good laugh about that ... figured he saw a black lab or something.  

Then, at the early part of bow season (2009) I came around that same curve and lo and behold there was a 4 to 5 foot black panther plain as day.

Feeling kind of dumb after not believing my friend I did some research and came to find out that this animal was here in the 1800's and mostly killed or driven out. In recent years, according to Audobon Researchers several sightings have been confirmed as far north as Baltimore.


....they are back


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 28, 2011)

probass said:


> A few years ago my partner and his wife were cruising down Ruckersville Road about 10pm and swore he saw a large black panther on the side of the road.
> 
> Had a good laugh about that ... figured he saw a black lab or something.
> 
> ...



Where did you find any kind of documentation anywhere that said there were ever BLACK panthers here? There were plenty of panthers/cougars/mountain lions (same animal) here up until the early 20th century, but NO black ones. There has never, ever,never been a confirmed case of a north american panther being colored black out of untold thousands that have been killed, studied, or raised in captivity. I wish you would share your sources for your research, because every stitch of evidence, scientific study, or even journals of early explorers never, ever, ever mention a panther that is BLACK.


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## shakey gizzard (Jun 29, 2011)

NCHillbilly said:


> Where did you find any kind of documentation anywhere that said there were ever BLACK panthers here? There were plenty of panthers/cougars/mountain lions (same animal) here up until the early 20th century, but NO black ones. There has never, ever,never been a confirmed case of a north american panther being colored black out of untold thousands that have been killed, studied, or raised in captivity. I wish you would share your sources for your research, because every stitch of evidence, scientific study, or even journals of early explorers never, ever, ever mention a panther that is BLACK.



They are even more rare than 75lb yote!


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 30, 2011)

shakey gizzard said:


> They are even more rare than 75lb yote!


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## BobKat (Jul 13, 2011)

alright look as yourself this .... if there are Black panthers then why is it there are no Albino or piebalds seen?????????   because logically talking if you have a melanistic panther you will most likely have a albino also


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## michael988 (Aug 9, 2011)

BobKat said:


> alright look as yourself this .... if there are Black panthers then why is it there are no Albino or piebalds seen?????????   because logically talking if you have a melanistic panther you will most likely have a albino also



ive seen 2 black panthers and i have seen multiple piebald deer and killed one albino deer you just dont see these things cuz your not in woods enough


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 10, 2011)

michael988 said:


> ive seen 2 black panthers and i have seen multiple piebald deer and killed one albino deer you just dont see these things cuz your not in woods enough



I've seen a lot of piebald and several completely white deer, too in forty-some years of spending most of my time in the woods. Seen white squirrels, all kind of funky -colored critters, but I still ain't seen a black panther, which is odd, because some of my neighbors and cousins who hardly ever set foot in the woods have seen several. I have seen a lot of black housecats, a nearly-black bobcat, and several black Plotts and labs, and half-grown bears in the woods. As a matter of fact, most of the people I know who see black panthers are actually the people who spend the least amount of time in the woods for some reason. I don't know why.


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## gaspur1 (Aug 24, 2011)

*black panther*

Most people are seeing black jaguars , they follow what they eat, pigs and deer. There are small female jaguars that are about the size of a mountain lion , or all the other names they have aquired. I have seen a big black male ,about twice the size of a mountain lion, 18 years ago for about 12 seconds in the open on dirt at 40 yards. and a female mostly black body with a spotted face, in July of this year. I can identify their tracks which is unusal  easy since you don't see them too often. I have seen one way they mark trees in their areas. They avoid people completely if at all possible but won't back down too quickly either if threaten. They are a protected species ; but have been hunted illegally by a small group from out of state after deer season.


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## Michael F. Gray (Aug 24, 2011)

I have personally seen four large cats in my lifetime. Three years ago a local lady stuck a brownish colored large cat in Jones County in front of the Quaker Neck Country Club with a Chevrolet Suburban. A local Wildlife Officer opined it was quite old and in poor health.  A horse farm called Sam's Ranch outside Camp LeJeune has a large group of petting animals including geese. As LEO, I responded to a mutilated carcase finding large cat tracks, interviewing two witnesses who observed a long tailed large cat escape over a five foot fence.(all the animals in the barns were spooked still, after I arrived). As in my own eyewittness accounts over a period of 18 years, the sightings were at night, by headlight at night, are in less than ideal lighting conditions. I cannot say beyond all doubt the cats I've seen are "Black". At least one appeared to have been muddy and came out of a swamp, making coloration difficult to call. Capt. Paul Metters, a retired Wildlife Officer confided in his career he had seen three. They are elusive, but they are also here. At least three I've seen are tan, orlight brownish. One absolutely appeared black.


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## gaspur1 (Sep 2, 2011)

Although I stay in the woods in one fashion or another most every day, being in the woods don't have a lot to do with seeing black cats. Last month a grandpa bushhogging his grandson's side yard was seen by the cat first and came out of the wooded area and moved him back by growling at him. He called his grandson who came home , 2 miles away to see it and take a shot at it. His Wife saw it later that day and another lady saw it from her house across the road at a later date. We got it on a video at 2:32 AM and turned it over to the state. We  are trying to get a video in daylight. God willing we will and will share it with you. Everyone please take a camera with you when you are hunting this year. They are here and have been for a while.


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## Throwback (Sep 10, 2011)

gaspur1 said:


> Although I stay in the woods in one fashion or another most every day, being in the woods don't have a lot to do with seeing black cats. Last month a grandpa bushhogging his grandson's side yard was seen by the cat first and came out of the wooded area and moved him back by growling at him. He called his grandson who came home , 2 miles away to see it and take a shot at it. His Wife saw it later that day and another lady saw it from her house across the road at a later date. We got it on a video at 2:32 AM and turned it over to the state. We  are trying to get a video in daylight. God willing we will and will share it with you. Everyone please take a camera with you when you are hunting this year. They are here and have been for a while.








T


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## germag (Sep 10, 2011)

Still no pictures, huh? Go figure. You'd think that, with this many people claiming to have seen them, someone would have gotten a photo by now. I do not believe that a black variant of _Puma concolor_ exists.


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## gaspur1 (Sep 14, 2011)

That's correct there has never been any evidence of a black puma concolor in captivity or wild. The black cats that are larger in size are jaguars which can be lighter in color as well.


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 22, 2011)

Well, it ain't been a year since I was last on this thread, but I looked anyhow.  Still no proof......as for seeing two around Albany, I have spent more time in the swamps and woods around here than most and I have seen bears, but never no black cat....and I used to run hounds here a good bit back when folks did that.  I have trapped, hunted, run hounds and fished these swamps and river and creek drainages all over SOWEGA, oh yeah, I cruised timber down here too back in my younger days for F&W.  (the bears were seen on Dixie Plantation down on the FLA line)

I don't even know how many piebald and albino looking deer I have seen, along with jet black coyotes, both seen and trapped.......There has yet to be a Black FELIS CONCOLOR documented anywhere from the Yukon to Patagonia or the Atlantic to the Pacific EVER (the boundries I listed were its natural range, basically almost all of North and South America).   Think about it NOT A SINGLE ONE E.V.E.R., BUY ANYONE, has been killed, captured or photographed.....and there is nowhere in its range that bounties were not on them at one time or other. Heck I even saw the high number of bounties that were paid in GA at one time(read about them, I ain't that old)....long, long ago.


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## flingin1 (Oct 7, 2011)

???


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 11, 2011)

flingin1 said:


> ???



Looks like a melanistic bobcat, and a nice'un. Even though there has never been a documented black cougar, black bobcats have been documented many times.


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## Big Doe Down (Oct 11, 2011)

I sure hope that the first idjit that runs across these "black panthers" in the woods while carrying a gun blasts the daylights out of him. I want proof. If I am ever hunting and see what I can confirm as a "black mountain lion/panther" I promise you that thing will be ground checked. I don't care if it costs me $5000 in fines, I will do it if it will prove black panthers exist. Now I know that day will probably never come, but I sure hope somebody shoots one if they see one and have the opportunity. This hearsay is getting old!!!


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## RdKill (Oct 13, 2011)

Black Jaguars and leopards accidentally or purposely released from captivity are the only viable explanation.  Locals assuming they are a color variation of a panther rather than a feral "illegal alien"...also likely.  Misidentification of animal species from laypeople is, in my experience, as a wildlife rescue/rehabber of nearly 30 years, more common than not.  For example, there are no cottonmouths in the Atlanta area.  Yet, care to guess how many people call in to have one removed from their goldfish pond?  What I find ranges from gartersnakes, black ratsnakes, watersnakes, to occasionally a copperhead...at least copperheads are the same family   Anyway, what I'm saying is, just because someone sees a large black cat resembling a panther in an area where panthers are the only large cat native (with a long tail)...doesn't mean it's a panther.

If you see one and don't want to kill it and face legal prosecution for doing so, sweet talk it and listen for the purr. Panthers are the largest cat on the planet that can purr.  A duffel bag full of catnip should get one purring for ya  If it doesn't purr, it's a leopard or jaguar.


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## RdKill (Oct 13, 2011)

Another thought on this...an escaped pet/zoo/circus animal is more likely to have multiple sightings because it's disoriented and has no established territory or routine.  Confused and hungry, and accustomed to being fed by humans rather than hunting, it's going to look for food in populated areas due to food/human association but with quick access to the woods for escape, unlike a native mountain lion/panther/couger/puma...whatever ya want to call them, who will have an established territory, a routine, honed hunting skills, and don't associate humans with food or being fed.


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## Ole Crip (Oct 13, 2011)

Meow here kitty kitty...Fluffy is on the prowl.


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## S Wolfe (Oct 14, 2011)

*Big Cat near Gould Mtn*

I saw and heard a large cat near Gould Mtn.  I saw the legs moving through the trees, heard it pant...methodically but not like a dog, and saw its rear & tail when it turned & ran.  I was alone, unarmed & blew the horn of my truck because it was coming up behind me...wish I'd just climbed in & watched it.
Gray brown, sleek body fur, with black hairs on rear where tail hung.  Height about 2.5 - 3'.  Pant was more a 'hunk' than a pant, and timed like exhaling each time paws hit the ground.
Area was pristine; few people go through the little valley.
Anyone else seen this???


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## Whiteeagle (Oct 14, 2011)

Back in the 1960's ther were some in California and pictures were in Post Offices and news papers. Haven't heard much about them lately. I think one of the might have been named Malchom, but he couldn't write- signed his name with an X.


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## Killdee (Oct 19, 2011)

Black Panther threads are so entertaining......


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## Gary Mercer (Oct 21, 2011)

HMMM
Down here in Peachtree City, most of our Cougars, (Panthers,) aren't black.  
But we got a mess of them.  Mostly found around the Starbucks during the day, and a bar called "Whynots" at nite.
(snort, wheeze, chuckle.)


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## BobKat (Nov 2, 2011)

Maybe there are a couple int he state but not everyone is black!


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## mmwiley1040 (Nov 4, 2011)

Never been one never gonna be one. Genetically impossible


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 12, 2011)

probass said:


> A few years ago my partner and his wife were cruising down Ruckersville Road about 10pm and swore he saw a large black panther on the side of the road.
> 
> Had a good laugh about that ... figured he saw a black lab or something.
> 
> ...



I think during your research you were confussing black panther with the term panther, that is what cougars were called in the south, the plain tawny variety....


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 12, 2011)

flingin1 said:


> ???



Cougars, panthers, etc....aren't slim in the waist like this animal.  The only big cat that gets slim in the waist is a cheetah.  That looks like a bobcat or dog to me.


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