# Philosopy anyone?



## ambush80 (Mar 13, 2017)

Boy Howdy!!!  these guys get in deep:

https://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/69255/

Posted: 30 January 2017 08:07
 @ generationofvipers

    I have watched with pained chagrin as a man who I used to admire has proven completely incapable of grasping the obvious and fundamental distinction between what is and what should be.


_"I don’t interpret Sam’s words as dismissing the philosophical distinction. Rather, I hear his words as an attempt to push back against the use of the distinction as a way to derail substantive conversation. It happens all.the.time: someone engages in a conversation, availing themselves of all of the tools of operational definitions and rank-order position-taking to make their argument, only to play the ‘we really can’t *know* anything’ card once their argument is factually undermined.

To help clear up my possibly errant thinking here, perhaps you can answer a question for me: if we don’t grant the arbitrary assumption that there is in fact a divine artificer who has an opinion about how the world ‘ought’ to be, what’s left of the ‘ought/is’ distinction? "_


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## ambush80 (Mar 13, 2017)

I like this one:

_Posted: 30 January 2017 09:55


Perhaps it would be advantageous to stop discussing “should” concepts altogether.  We can simply agree to do what is in our best interests and remove morality from the equation._


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## atlashunter (Aug 8, 2017)

Been reading Seneca and a few others the last few years. I've found the stoics practical and to the point. Wes Cecil also has some good lectures on YouTube covering different philosophers.

Walter Kaufmann is another good one.

"Let people who do not know what to do with themselves in this life, but fritter away their time reading magazines and watching television, hope for eternal life.....The life I want is a life I could not endure in eternity. It is a life of love and intensity, suffering and creation, that makes life worth while and death welcome. There is no other life I should prefer. Neither should I like not to die."


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## Israel (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I like this one:
> 
> _Posted: 30 January 2017 09:55
> 
> ...



I wonder if that's as simply done as stated? Now, one    could easily call me the contrarian just for pointing it out...but to what matter is agreement at all?


You know what's funny on the very face of it, and so profoundly obvious to anyone who works in the medical field (and one needn't to "get it"), almost every obese person (and yes, I qualify by the metrics employed here)...well, you know.

On almost whatever level of "being" you wish to take it, social, political, economic...there is fundamentally "great" agreement "is it better to be in debt...or not?"..."isn't it best for the political party to have the bests interests of the citizens at heart?"..."is it right to text while driving?"...but...so what? as to any answer given?


The matter I see is man hanging himself in acknowledging a "better way" (you could call it best interest in the broadly applied sense..."best interest for all")...but the endemic nature of what comes down to the individual making allowances for his own preference, always is apparent.

"yeah, it's much better to not be obese...now could you wheel me a little closer to the buffet?"

Of course we could remove all the _self interested ones_...but...


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## 660griz (Aug 8, 2017)

Israel said:


> but the endemic nature of what comes down to the individual making allowances for his own preference, always is apparent.



Not best interest then. 



> "yeah, it's much better to not be obese...now could you wheel me a little closer to the buffet?"


 Not best interest either. 
Remember, it was about removing 'should'.


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## Israel (Aug 10, 2017)

660griz said:


> Not best interest then.
> 
> Not best interest either.
> Remember, it was about removing 'should'.




Oh, you just want man to remove...what man cannot remove?
Easy peezy?


(And you say the christian lives in the land of pie in the sky?)

Let them eat cake?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...you-knew-about-yourself-is-wrong-8231362.html


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## 660griz (Aug 10, 2017)

Israel said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...you-knew-about-yourself-is-wrong-8231362.html



Link supports what some atheist in here have been saying all along.



> The Misconception: We take randomness into account when determining cause and effect.
> 
> The Truth: We tend to ignore random chance when the results seem meaningful or when we want a random event to have a meaningful cause.


 (See GOD)


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## Israel (Aug 10, 2017)

660griz said:


> Link supports what some atheist in here have been saying all along.
> 
> (See GOD)



I agree...self delusion is strong, one could even say all _but_ impenetrable. By the self.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 10, 2017)

Israel said:


> I wonder if that's as simply done as stated? Now, one    could easily call me the contrarian just for pointing it out...but to what matter is agreement at all?
> 
> 
> You know what's funny on the very face of it, and so profoundly obvious to anyone who works in the medical field (and one needn't to "get it"), almost every obese person (and yes, I qualify by the metrics employed here)...well, you know.
> ...





> We can simply agree to do what is in our best interests and remove morality from the equation.





> I wonder if that's as simply done as stated?


Its been my experience that it isn't that simply done.
An example(s) comes to mind -
In my married and dirt poor days there was more than one occasion where I was hungry and my stepdaughter needed school supplies for a project due etc.
Wasn't money for both.
Would have been in my best interest, at least psychologically, to get some groceries or maybe a pizza.
Would have been in her best interest to get the supplies she needed for her school project.
She got the supplies and I got hungrier.
Had I got the pizza and my belly was full, would I have then agonized over the fact she didn't have the supplies she needed?
Not as simple as it seems.


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