# sxs vs o&u



## preston (Jun 2, 2009)

i have been saving this topic for the summer slow down. 

what is the prefered gun for bird hunting, sxs or o & u? i can't decide, read that the sxs is considered the ultiamte bird gun but nore sure why? pros and cons of each? one thing for sure is the sxs are getting tough to find. 

thanks and look forward to a spirited debate.


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## birddog1 (Jun 2, 2009)

The sxs used to be the way to go and still is for some.There are alot of good sxs out there.The problem I see is you can get a very nice o/u for 2000.00 or less and that is were a good sxs starts.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 2, 2009)

They both are fine guns, I think folks who are instinct shooters do better with sxs.  At least this is what I have read, but I like both and have both.


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## preston (Jun 2, 2009)

*sxs*

seems to me that the o&u are about the only thing you see on the clay courses. i really like the classic look of the sxs.  i am definetly looking in the grand and below range. cz has a good looking line but i had prefer to find a used made in US gun.


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 2, 2009)

preston said:


> i can't decide, read that the sxs is considered the ultiamte bird gun but nore sure why?



Why? Because they're so dad-gum purdy!

How can you deny the good-looks of these beauties?

AYA #56 20ga






F. Sarriugarte 20ga.





(2) AYA #2 12ga.





Bernardelli Brescia Hammer Gun 20ga.





AYA #2 12ga.






Over-unders are great too (I really like the Beretta and Caesar Guerini guns) and I normally shoot better with them... but who cares.... SXSs are cooler! 

Adam


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## Augustabowhunter (Jun 2, 2009)

l like the over and under myself. To me they shoot better but l have both.


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 2, 2009)

preston said:


> seems to me that the o&u are about the only thing you see on the clay courses. i really like the classic look of the sxs.  i am definetly looking in the grand and below range. cz has a good looking line but i had prefer to find a used made in US gun.



For a grand or under, here's what I would recommend.

SKB/Ithaca 100 or other model.

Browning B-SS

Miroku Charles Daly 500

All of these guns are discontinued but they can be found if you look (The Daly 500 is hard to find but the others are everywhere). All were made in Japan.

Miroku built the Browning and Charles Daly. The 500 (with extractors and double triggers) is actually a more reliable gun than the BSS (ejectors and single trigger) but both are VERY similar. The Daly stays true to the Anson and Deeley action while the Browning deviates from it a little. If you get lucky, you can find the Daly guns with ejectors.

DON'T CONFUSE THE OLDER MIROKU-BUILT CHARLES DALY GUNS WITH THE NEWER IMPORTS FROM TURKEY AND BRAZIL!!!!


Adam


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## bird dog (Jun 2, 2009)

I like my over and under and I have both as well


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## Dixiegrouse (Jun 2, 2009)

I shot a fox for 23  years that was given to me from my Pawpaw that he had used for rabbit hunting when he had gotten back from the WWII .It gave me a feeling i could knock any quail out of the air that flushed however it was stolen along with 16 ga LC SMITH i had purchased along the way.I bought a 20ga Citori lighting after that and have been shooting it for 12 years and it shoots very well.That being said i hunt every thing with this gun Grouse Quail and Dove and Ducks.I never could hit doves very good with the double as i can with OU and have come to enjoy it very much but i still miss the look and fill of the doubles.I would like to purchase a 410 double for
the put out quail one day.


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## easbell (Jun 2, 2009)

I have both but really enjoy hunting with my SxS. A big fan of the old LC Smith.  
It takes me a while to get my feel back when I go away from the SxS. I can get back in the grove of the o/u much quicker. I guess I should just stay with the 20 ga LC.


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## Jetjockey (Jun 2, 2009)

I think it has more to do with status and stigma then what is a better gun.  The traditionalists are going to swear by the SxS.  If you look at the old Purdey's and the old English "Best grade" shotguns, they were usually always SxS's.  However, they were expensive to say the least.  IMO when you spend less then $2000 for a gun you are much better off looking at an O/U because I think you can get a much better O/U then SxS at that price.  To get into the nicer SxS's like Aya's, RBL's, and Beretta 471's, your gonna start spending $3000 and up very easily.  You can get a nice Beretta 686 for less then $2000...   Ive shot my Beretta 686, an AYA, and a RBL.  I can't hit crap with the SxS's, but looking down a single barrel is very natural to me, yet the beretta is over $2000 less then the SxS's.  However, there is something really nice about the way a good SxS feels in your hands..  Whatever you do make sure you get a decent gun.  There is a lot of junk double guns out there that are very cheap.  Doubles are expensive to build, and there is a reason they are not cheap.  There is a reason cheap doubles are cheap, and you don't want one of them.  I second the Miroku's that Covey suggested.  They are nice guns at relatively good price.  They are about the only "cheap" double I want to have.


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## Murphy (Jun 2, 2009)

I must not have any class  I shot a O/U one time (unknown type) and hated it just seemed to be a waste I prefer a 870 Express 12 Gauge a great all around gun I actually like it better then my buddies Benelli I mean how hard is it to pump a gun? 200 some odd dollars and you got a great gun I got rid of my 20Gauge after I shot the 870 one day on a dove field 
Just my opinion though those guns are purty but way outta my league my Remington works just fine


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## Jetjockey (Jun 3, 2009)

Don't kid yourself.  870's are great guns.  Ive got an 12 GA 870 wingmaster and I love it.  But it sits in the case since I like my O/U 20 guage so much better for smaller birds like quail and dove.  Heck, my 20 ga will probably be my go to gun for pheasants as well.  But the remmy 870 is a great gun.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm a big fan of SxS's.  One reason is that I do believe I shoot them better than O/U's.  There is something about how my cheek settles over a SxS that just feels right.

I agree with coveyrise90's picks for "inexpensive" quality SxS's, however, if you can find a BSS for under a grand I'll buy every one you find.  They start more in the $1500 range for a 12 ga and go up to $1800-2000 for a 20 in good shape.

I own a Charles Daly Field II SxS that was made in Spain by Zabala Hermanos, which is one of the more inexpensive gunmakers of the Basque region.  It has been a fine shotgun for the 4 years I've owned it and I recommend it for the money.  Its a very handsome gun, locks up tight, has nice case coloring, 5 screw-in chokes, and ejectors.  I believe they can be bought for $700-800.


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## Doyle (Jun 3, 2009)

The advantage of a SxS is that you don't have to break it open as far to eject empties and reload.   On the other hand, an O/U has the shooting advantage of a single sighting plane.   

I think either is preferable to an auto or pump for a "gentleman shooter".


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## Murphy (Jun 3, 2009)

Well I haven't been to too many of them Big Plantation GENTLEMEN HUNTS


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 3, 2009)

The prices of the BSS have seemed to drop. I'd get one if they came with English grip and splinter forends.

$800
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130303167

$1000
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130159283

$1075
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130323520

This one sold for $634!
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127640282

and this one for $900
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125758205

Gunbroker is the best place to buy. The local gun shop almost always charge more.

Good luck!

Adam


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 3, 2009)

It is strange, one of the first guns I had as a kid was a Fox, and most of the other kids I ran with also had sxs guns, of various makes and gauges.  All the adults shot Browning sweet 16s, Remington 1100s or Winchester Model 12s.  We all wanted one of those repeating shotguns, or at least a pump.  Now 35 years later we all wish we had those sxs guns and now have gun cases full of autos and pumps and yet we only use them for duck hunting or turkey hunting.  We spend small fortunes on sxs guns and o/u guns (I remember the first one I saw, a Browning superposed) and use those doubles for most all of our shotgun needs.  I am even looking at an o/u for duck hunting and possible turkey hunting with a sxs.  My how times have changed.  I guess the only nondouble gun I have that I would use for anything but duck or turkey hunting is a little 870 feather weight wing master with an english stock that was given to me about 10 or so years ago.

I was talking to some friends the other day about the guns of our youth and got to thinking.  I harvested everything that was huntable in either south ga. and north fla. with my old fox, including deer and a bear in fla.  shot in front of hounds (back in the day you didnt hunt with anything but a shotgun with hounds).  The first deer I ever harvested was with that fox shooting slugs from a tree stand.  I remember my first deer rifle I purchased (I still have it) an old winchester 30.06 from J C Pennys for right at 98 dollars and it came with a scope.


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## Jetjockey (Jun 3, 2009)

I don't know.  I still love a nice autoloader.  I don't care if its not a "gentlemens" shotgun.  As much as I love my Beretta 686 I also love the Beretta auto's and I really love the old 1100's.  I actually like auto's over SxS's for real hunting coditions.  Id much rather look at a nice SxS, but Id much rather hunt with one of those un-gentlemenly guns.  But thats just me.


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## Doyle (Jun 3, 2009)

I was actually making fun of the "gentlemen's" guns.   When all is said and done, I too find myself reaching for the pump more often than not.   However, if I ever do find myself being so lucky as to be invited to a real plantation quail hunt it will be my Beretta 685 that I'll be carrying.


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## easbell (Jun 3, 2009)

Grandaddy always said life was too short for ugly guns.


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## Nitro (Jun 3, 2009)

I believe it was said best- If God wanted us to shoot O/Us, he would have stacked our eyeballs on top of one another .............

I shoot an O/U better, but prefer to hunt with a SxS..

I love my Wins and my Parker.....An AyA is on the list- 20 ga preferably.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jun 4, 2009)

coveyrise90 said:


> The prices of the BSS have seemed to drop. I'd get one if they came with English grip and splinter forends.
> 
> $800
> http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130303167
> ...



indeed they have come down.  I looked at them about 5 years ago and they were sky high.

I do notice that all of those are 12 ga., but for $1000 its still a great deal.

and I agree I love a good slick semi-auto as much as the next guy.  I love having that 3rd shot in a dove field and I love shooting sporting clays with my old 1100.  I shoot better at passing birds with my 1100 than with a sxs.  I guess its more of a point and shoot kinda gun for me.  Maybe that's what billcollector meant when he said "instinctive."


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## shotgun (Jun 4, 2009)

I like my Ruger Red label o/u but it does get heavy sometimes.
Looking at a Franchi 20 guage 5lbs.


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## Lane Morrell (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a Remington Spartan 20 ga. SXS that I love when shooting quail.  It just reminds me of the old Stevens 16 ga. SXS that my grandfather passed down to my dad.  I shot it when I was a kid, and after all the dry fires it went through, the firing pins broke.  We had a tornado hit our house in 2000, and it got put into storage.  It looks like someone dipped in a bucket of rust now.  One day, I hope to have it fixed.

My wife shoots the Rem. when dove hunting.  I have told her I would buy her an automatic if she wants one.  She says she would rather shoot the SXS.


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## Beagle Stace (Jun 4, 2009)

Well, throw me in with the un- gentlemanly because even though I do have a Citori 16 and 20 gauge, I often slip after quail, woodcock, and grouse with a Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen or 20 gauge. Guess I need not worry about fitting in on one of those fancy SW Ga. plantations tucked away behind those ivory gates for the elitist folk. Plus I sometimes throw my bird beagle down with my brittany. I do it my way with the common folk, don't need to worry about appearance or being judged. To each their own. Funny thing is that often the best shots period carry some type of old beat up repeater or single shot and never talk guns.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 4, 2009)

Beagle Stace said:


> Well, throw me in with the un- gentlemanly because even though I do have a Citori 16 and 20 gauge, I often slip after quail, woodcock, and grouse with a Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen or 20 gauge. Guess I need not worry about fitting in on one of those fancy SW Ga. plantations tucked away behind those ivory gates for the elitist folk. Plus I sometimes throw my bird beagle down with my brittany. I do it my way with the common folk, don't need to worry about appearance or being judged. To each their own. Funny thing is that often the best shots period carry some type of old beat up repeater or single shot and never talk guns.



I find that funny to some extent, when I was coming up, repeating shotguns were what the rich folk had, or the city folk.  All the poor country folk down in my neck of the woods carried around a sxs.  They were cheaper than a sweet 16 or remington 1100.  Stop and think what your grand father carried, in most cases it would have been an old fox or stevens sxs in either 16 or 12 gauge.  One of the mile stones in growing up was when you got your first repeating shotgun and graduated from using a sxs.  My how times have changed.


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## Beagle Stace (Jun 4, 2009)

Well,

 I guess some of my relatives from Irwin Co. of the older generation were just uncommon common folk. They shot either single shot smoke poles or pumps. But then again they probably used beagles on lots of non plantation lands and shot lots of rabbits too. Definitely agree with you on the way people's attitudes and preferences have changed> We are all different but enjoy the hunt the same. This is what it is all about.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jun 4, 2009)

redneck_billcollector said:


> I find that funny to some extent, when I was coming up, repeating shotguns were what the rich folk had, or the city folk.  All the poor country folk down in my neck of the woods carried around a sxs.  They were cheaper than a sweet 16 or remington 1100.  Stop and think what your grand father carried, in most cases it would have been an old fox or stevens sxs in either 16 or 12 gauge.  One of the mile stones in growing up was when you got your first repeating shotgun and graduated from using a sxs.  My how times have changed.



its the difference in hunting for pleasure and hunting to put food on the table.  you get another shot off with a repeating shotgun...


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 4, 2009)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> its the difference in hunting for pleasure and hunting to put food on the table.  you get another shot off with a repeating shotgun...




What I was talking about was POOR country folk, they tended to have one gun for all hunting, from fur to feathers and it tended to be a sxs, normally in 12 or 16.  When I stayed with my grand pa in Wakula Co.  I had one gun, I shot deer with it, dove with it, quail with it, marsh hens with it, turkeys with it, hogs with it, rabbits with it, ducks with it, wood cock with it, snipe with it and on one occassion a bear with it.  It was an ancient fox 12 sxs.  All the poor country kids I ran in the woods with all had sxs in varrying gauges and varrying brands.  Some of the ones that were really hard up had either 12 gauge or 10 gauge single shots.  I never knew a swamper or share cropper that had a pump or a repeating shotgun, they cost more than a used sxs, a whole lot more.  We hunted deer, turkey, hogs, rabbits and ducks year round, the only thing we didn't hunt year round in Wakula county was quail, they were still respected, but a deer was nothing more than meat and we prefered does over bucks.  You also had best show up with a bag full of game, normally mixed rabbits, squirrels, dove and duck if you shot up a box of "high brass" those were the expensive shells and they had best count.  As for having an extra shot, well, you had best not shoot at anything more than once, you would get in trouble, and you sure didn't shoot two shells at a dove, squirrel or rabbit.  I can remember being dropped off on the side of a loggin road when they were running deer and my grand pa would give me one shell of 00 buckshot, though once he gave me two.

Oh yeah, I also shot coons and possums with it, another thing, I think I was a better shot back then than I am now, cause if your gun went bang, you best have something to show for it.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 4, 2009)

I got to play with a Smith &  Wesson sxs for a little bit today, was a field grade I.  It threw as natural as any shotgun I have held, an all around nice and pretty gun.  It sho' nuff was heavy though, which was a lil strange to me, it didnt have screw in choke tubes, the barrels should have been a little bit lighter.  Would be fun to shoot dove with, but I dont know if I would want to carry it afield all day.


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 6, 2009)

The S&W sxs is a nice gun. But I'm not fan of the stock. The head of it is too bulky to me.









Adam


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## BirdNut (Jun 7, 2009)

I like citori over & under now, but started out with a mossberg pump.

I've got my eye out for an AyA 20 or 28 gauge SXS, but I am being real patient.


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## redlevel (Jun 7, 2009)

Beagle Stace said:


> Well, throw me in with the un- gentlemanly because even though I do have a Citori 16 and 20 gauge, I often slip after quail, woodcock, and grouse with a Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen or 20 gauge. Guess I need not worry about fitting in on one of those fancy SW Ga. plantations tucked away behind those ivory gates for the elitist folk. Plus I sometimes throw my bird beagle down with my brittany. I do it my way with the common folk, don't need to worry about appearance or being judged. To each their own. Funny thing is that often the best shots period carry some type of old beat up repeater or single shot and never talk guns.




Here's Stace with one of the common folk.  I believe that was a Benelli you were using, wasn't it?    That's the BSS 20 gauge Sporter I use for everything from quail to rabbits to squirrels over my shoulder.


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## turkeys101 (Jun 7, 2009)

both class are excellent.i perfer sxs over o&u


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## Medicine Man (Jun 7, 2009)

Red your getting a little age on you there bud..I saw you at the farm house today when I passed by on the way to Rob's house. I wanted to stop and say hello but we had the baby with us. We'll have to get after those rabbits this winter.


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## BirdNut (Jun 7, 2009)

redneck_billcollector said:


> What I was talking about was POOR country folk, they tended to have one gun for all hunting, from fur to feathers and it tended to be a sxs, normally in 12 or 16.  When I stayed with my grand pa in Wakula Co.  I had one gun, I shot deer with it, dove with it, quail with it, marsh hens with it, turkeys with it, hogs with it, rabbits with it, ducks with it, wood cock with it, snipe with it and on one occassion a bear with it.  It was an ancient fox 12 sxs.  All the poor country kids I ran in the woods with all had sxs in varrying gauges and varrying brands.  Some of the ones that were really hard up had either 12 gauge or 10 gauge single shots.  I never knew a swamper or share cropper that had a pump or a repeating shotgun, they cost more than a used sxs, a whole lot more.  We hunted deer, turkey, hogs, rabbits and ducks year round, the only thing we didn't hunt year round in Wakula county was quail, they were still respected, but a deer was nothing more than meat and we prefered does over bucks.  You also had best show up with a bag full of game, normally mixed rabbits, squirrels, dove and duck if you shot up a box of "high brass" those were the expensive shells and they had best count.  As for having an extra shot, well, you had best not shoot at anything more than once, you would get in trouble, and you sure didn't shoot two shells at a dove, squirrel or rabbit.  I can remember being dropped off on the side of a loggin road when they were running deer and my grand pa would give me one shell of 00 buckshot, though once he gave me two.
> 
> Oh yeah, I also shot coons and possums with it, another thing, I think I was a better shot back then than I am now, cause if your gun went bang, you best have something to show for it.



Great post!


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## BirdNut (Jun 7, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Here's Stace with one of the common folk.  I believe that was a Benelli you were using, wasn't it?    That's the BSS 20 gauge Sporter I use for everything from quail to rabbits to squirrels over my shoulder.



great picture...got me to thinking, we ought to post our photos up so in case we run into each other in the real world we know we are dealing with a fine person-a fellow bird hunter.

As for doubles vs. repeaters, for me there are 2 things that a double has over repeater:

1) Safety-breaking the action to cross a creek/fence etc. is much faster, easier done and by all means more visible with a double versus the procedures one must go through with a repeater, be it pump or auto.  I think its common courtesy to break your action or unload when you approach another hunting party in the field.  When you break open a double, its apparent to all you are in a safe condition.  It also makes it easier to check your comrades visually as well without pestering them with questions.  I am stickler for safety in the field.  There's piece of mind having your partner hand you a broke-action gun to hold for him while you hold the upper strand of an old barbed wire fence.

2) I like the tradition of the double gun.  For me, bird hunting is in a large part about tradition and upholding our heritage.  Lord knows you can't justify bird hunting economically, at least not in Georgia.  You'd be better off buying farm raised quail at Winn Dixie, if they even call it that anymore.  In practical terms, an O-U offers the same sighting plane most of us grew up with, and this is why O-U double guns are so popular in the US and not in Europe where there is a bird hunting tradition as well.  I am certainly still learning, but its interesting to track the development of American firearms versus those on the Continent.  At some point, as Jay pointed out, a lot of your well-heeled bird hunters switched to autos and pumps.  In fact, a lot of those gentlemen in their 70's and 80's will still show some quiet pride in relating the time or times they dropped 3 birds on the rise with 3 separate shots from a pump or auto.  One year my grandfather in law gave all 3 of his sons/son in laws a Winchester auto for Christmas.  It was tradition for them to hunt quail on the farm during the week of Christmas.  My father in law still talks of that gun, 12 gauge incidentally, as well as a Winchester Model 12 in 12 gauge as the ultimate quail guns.  Once when he was still hunting, he brought the auto along and man could he lay some quail low with it.  He let me try it halfway through the day and I couldn't hit the proverbial barn with it.

Its been pointed out that if you do get an invitation to a real plantation, you better not try to hunt a 12 gauge and never, ever a repeater.  These are also places where its tradition to shoot covey rise only, the pointers (and those are English Pointers) don't retrieve, they have a lab or cocker on a wagon to do that for you.  If I got an invitation I know that I would go in a minute and leave my 12 gauge Citori behind just for the experience of being on one of these places.  I would make my judegments regarding the exclusivity and the peculiarity of their traditions after I'd been lucky enough to experience it in person.

Still, regardless of the gauge you use, to me there is some tradition and even romance with the double versus any other action.  I will someday hunt with a classic side by side, in 20 gauge or lighter, and may eventually put it down for "Big Iron", the name my 5 lb AyA toting vet gave my clunker of a 12 gauge Citori.  Proportionally, my Citori is about half-again as big as his wand-like AyA, just like I am about half again as big as he is.  We joke good naturedly back and forth about the fact that I handicap myself with a heavier gun to allow him first shot ( keep in mind this is the only man I have seen neatly fold a double on quail  from his posterior after running about a quarter mile to jump on an errant pointer pup's check cord, landing on his backside in the process, simultaneously flushing the covey my runaway pup had pointed), or that a little man like himself would wilt under the weight of a Citori by lunch.

I am not a good shot, but sometimes I make some great shots with that gun-it just feels like a part of my body.  I have never felt that way about a pump or auto, but maybe its because they just didn't fit right.  I like the way the shells eject and curls of smoke wind out of the chambers when you break to reload after a covey rise.  I like the relative silence of a double versus the clackety-clack of a pump.  Autos are fine, but frankly they just scare me.  Irrational I know, but they do.  A double man rarely has a jam.  If he does, it's dirty ejectors and pretty easily remedied in the field.  I've hunted with more than one fellow who cursed his daddy's Franchi or A5 auto loader and the gun smith that rebuilt it while quail were flushing and there were no shots coming from their quarter, only complaints, excuses, and expletives.  Pumps of course are pretty reliable and not as fickle as some autos, but like I said, I prefer the silence of the double versus the mechanical symphony of the pump action.

On top of that, a double has nice lines.  Admirers of beautiful women and vintage cars are probably drawn to doubles for some unknown to them reason.  Its kind of like why I would sit and watch Hee Haw on the Superstation when I was six years old but got up to go play when Lawrence Welk came on.   I had no idea at the time, but Hee Haw had a magnetic attraction that I would only come to realize in later years.  I think its the same with a double gun.  There is an inexplicable magnetism and attraction with the double for a lot of folks that goes way beyond what's misdiagnosed as snootiness by some folks.

Really though, tradition is in the eye of the beholder.  I can see where an A5 used by a forebear would have the same attraction for one as a Fox or old Ithaca or a Churchill would have for another.  For me my attraction to doubles as tradition is kind of organic.  My father didn't hunt as the result of some events earlier in his life.  My mother's father did, but when he passed from cancer when I was about 10 or11, she didn't have the foresight to go and claim some of his rifles and shotguns for me-instead they all went to uncles and older cousins and now they are scattered to the four winds, probably sold and their tradition lost on the new owner.  So, my hunting tradition grew out of my perceptions and minimal personal experiences, and along the way my ideal became the double gun.  I like to think my grandad had a fine collection, but I'll never really know.  

I know one thing, I'll never have the experience of killing my first wild quail with a Parker 12 gauge, choked full-full that my grandfather carried to hunt turkeys in southern Pennsylvania.  But I was able to share in that experience with one of my good friends, and see the gleam in his eye when he realized he had shot a bird in this century with a gun his grandfather had carried many days afield in the previous century.  And to me, that is what tradition is about.


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## redlevel (Jun 8, 2009)

BirdNut said:


> I know one thing, I'll never have the experience of killing my first wild quail with a Parker 12 gauge, choked full-full that my grandfather carried to hunt turkeys in southern Pennsylvania.  But I was able to share in that experience with one of my good friends, and see the gleam in his eye when he realized he had shot a bird in this century with a gun his grandfather had carried many days afield in the previous century.  And to me, that is what tradition is about.



I had the distinct honor and privilege of killing my first wild quail with a 20 gauge Parker my Great Uncle Perk bought in 1916, before he went off to Europe to fight in WWI.  He left it to my Daddy, and my Daddy gave it to me.  That was in about 1959 or 1960 that I killed my first quail.  I hunted with that Parker exclusively until the early seventies, when I went over to the dark side and got a Browning Sweet Sixteen with a 26" IC barrel.  It was a quail killing machine. 

The Browning is long gone, but I still have the Parker.  I bought a case of 2-1/2" low pressure shells a couple of years back, but I haven't used the old gun.  I think I will set a goal of killing a wild quail with the old Parker in the 21st Century.   Thanks for giving me that idea.   

I also have my wife's GrGrandfather's old "JP Stevens A&TCo. 225"  hammer 12 gauge double.  I got a case of low-pressure 2.5" shells for it at the same time.  I'm going to use those old guns some on the dove field and over good dogs this year, just for the tradition and nostalgia.


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 8, 2009)

Birdnut, great post! I agree with every aspect of it.

Redlevel, that Fox you've got must be a gem. Especially since it's a small bore. I remember several episodes of the Shotgun Journal where Bruce Scott restored an old Fox 16ga. Each episode showed a different step of the process. One of the rebluing, one of the color case hardening, one of the gunsmith reworking the action, one of the restocking, checkering, etc. I loved it. It seems like a really fun project. You might want to look into something like that... especially since the gun's been passed down through the generations.

All the best!

Adam


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jun 8, 2009)

BirdNut said:


> Really though, tradition is in the eye of the beholder.  I can see where an A5 used by a forebear would have the same attraction for one as a Fox or old Ithaca or a Churchill would have for another.  For me my attraction to doubles as tradition is kind of organic.  My father didn't hunt as the result of some events earlier in his life.  My mother's father did, but when he passed from cancer when I was about 10 or11, she didn't have the foresight to go and claim some of his rifles and shotguns for me-instead they all went to uncles and older cousins and now they are scattered to the four winds, probably sold and their tradition lost on the new owner.  So, my hunting tradition grew out of my perceptions and minimal personal experiences, and along the way my ideal became the double gun.  I like to think my grandad had a fine collection, but I'll never really know.



and this is why my "perfect bird gun" is a 16 ga. Remington 1100.

I love doubles and totally agree with you about their lines.  They are just beautiful guns, period.  However, my dad has been shooting his 16 ga 1100 for nearly 40 years.  He has probably killed 1000+ doves with it, along with a ton of quail, rabbits, squirrels, etc.  It has been the most significant and prominent gun of my entire life.  In the same way, my grandfather was supremely proud of his 11-87 that he got sometime in the late 80's.  That was his turkey gun and he and my father turkey hunted a lot together so that gun was most significant to my father, who now hunts with that 11-87 every chance he gets.


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## Nitro (Jun 8, 2009)

*One of my lovelies....*

My Winchester Model 23 Grande Canadian 20 gauge.....one of 450.

Sweet little shotgun. I am trying to earn and save for a Model 23 Classic in 28 next.....other stuff keeps getting in the way.....


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## coveyrise90 (Jun 8, 2009)

Nice Winchester! Those are some well-built doubles.

Adam


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## redneck_billcollector (Jun 8, 2009)

That is one fine gun you have there Nitro.  I love english stocks, for some reason I seem to be right on every time I shoulder one.


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## doublebarrel (Jun 8, 2009)

I sold my overunders years ago and smallbore side by sides are what i use . wish we had some wild birds to hunt now!


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## BirdNut (Jun 9, 2009)

I try not to be envious, but some of these photos make it really tough!  Nice pics-keeps me motivated to keep looking.

Last fall I had a chance at a really nice Parker for a real deal, but the timing just wasn't right (started a business, that pesky cash flow and all).  The opportunities come and go, and I've been thinking of establishing a rainy day fund for cases like this.  You know, like  medical emergency, a major truck repair, or perhaps a double gun purchase emergency.


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## andrew_dial (Jun 10, 2009)

any body ever shoot a yildiz? as far as i know academy sports is the only place that sells them around here. i have a o/u 20 and love it. its got solid walnut stocks, engraved stainless reciever, adjustable firing order, screw in choke tubes, and ejectors thatll launch empty shells 15 feet.  all for less than 400 bucks.  i know three other people that shoot them and love them. ill post some pics up later. it really is amazing how much gun you get for the money. oh and its turkish made.


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