# Trashy Gill Netters!



## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 13, 2013)

FWC asks for help from the public

Investigators with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) need the public’s help.

Sometime during the evening hours of Dec. 1 or early morning hours of Dec. 2 someone using the Davis Beach Boat Ramp (also called Research Road) on Tyndall Air Force Base unloaded and dumped at least 400 pounds of roe mullet, spotted seatrout, pompano, flounder, Spanish mackerel and bluefish at the ramp. The discarded fish were discovered by Tyndall staff on Dec. 2.

“All of the fish had marks showing they were caught by gill net,” said Investigator Neal Goss IV. “We hope someone will come forward and help us solve who did this.”

The use of certain types of nets for taking marine species is prohibited in Florida waters under the Florida Constitution.

Anyone with information is urged to contact the Wildlife Alert hotline at 888-404-3922. Anonymity is guaranteed, and if the call leads to an arrest a reward may be paid.


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## pottydoc (Dec 13, 2013)

No way it could have been gill netters. They are the most conservation minded folks on the water. It was taught to them by their Daddy's daddy's daddy's daddy. Shame on the FWC for trying to frame some poor hardworking public feeding gill netter.


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## swamp hunter (Dec 13, 2013)

If'n they would have called me I'd a loaded up the Coolers.
Shame on some Folks that treat Nature like garbage..


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## grouper throat (Dec 14, 2013)

Man I know dozens of people who would've gladly taken those mullet..


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## asc (Dec 15, 2013)

Why would anyone throw out marketable fish?

Sounds to me like someones walk in failed or a set up by some disgruntled CCA members.

They are known for their deception and chicanery.


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## pottydoc (Dec 15, 2013)

Please provide one bit of documented evidence that CCA members have ever practiced any kind of deception and chicanery. Oh yeah, your opinion is not evidence. Back it up with actual facts. I challenged you on this before, and all you did was say that you had proof of this or that, but never showed us any. You talk a good show, but it stops there.


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## asc (Dec 17, 2013)

I showed you the one on the UGA research boat...


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## pottydoc (Dec 17, 2013)

You didn't show anyone anything. You posted up something you said was evidence, but no back up. Plus, if there was enough to make your accusation's "well Known", you should have zero problem presenting us with plenty of evidence to back up your claims. And a FWI. I am not, have never been, and never will be a CCA member. They've bailed on too many offshore issues. You go ahead and keep drinking the koolaid about the net ban amendment, though. And keep on fantasizing that it'll someday get overturned. Ain't gonna happen buddy. You and the other "I should be allowed to kill anything I want, anytime I want, and as much as I want, and no one else should be allowed to catch anything" bunch fixed that permanently.


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## asc (Dec 18, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> You didn't show anyone anything. You posted up something you said was evidence, but no back up. Plus, if there was enough to make your accusation's "well Known", you should have zero problem presenting us with plenty of evidence to back up your claims. And a FWI. I am not, have never been, and never will be a CCA member. They've bailed on too many offshore issues. You go ahead and keep drinking the koolaid about the net ban amendment, though. And keep on fantasizing that it'll someday get overturned. Ain't gonna happen buddy. You and the other "I should be allowed to kill anything I want, anytime I want, and as much as I want, and no one else should be allowed to catch anything" bunch fixed that permanently.


You sure are bitter...
I don't like kool-aid.
You recognize CCA for what they are, I apologize then, you do have some redeemable qualities...


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 18, 2013)

Yea, CCA has a super-secret covert unit that travels around the southeast framing trashy gill netters!


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## pottydoc (Dec 18, 2013)

asc said:


> You sure are bitter...
> I don't like kool-aid.
> You recognize CCA for what they are, I apologize then, you do have some redeemable qualities...



Bitter? Hmmm..., my side won this war buddy. Yours lost. I just got this thing about folks posting supposed "facts" and not being able to back them up.


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## asc (Dec 18, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> Bitter? Hmmm..., my side won this war buddy. Yours lost. I just got this thing about folks posting supposed "facts" and not being able to back them up.


You do remember the ads right? 
Or were you even around?

I'll try to find a little better reference for you to deny..


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## asc (Dec 18, 2013)

one more, pretty easy to find on the web..

Shows you for what you are.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...shing-nets-audubon-society-commercial-fishing


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## asc (Dec 18, 2013)

Ya'll really didn't do anything to address shrimp bycatch, just usd the footage to further your agenda..

Kind of like Obama and gun control.

Kool-aid anyone?


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## asc (Dec 18, 2013)

That's two references pottyman..

Bless your heart.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 19, 2013)

asc said:


> one more, pretty easy to find on the web..
> 
> Shows you for what you are.
> http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...shing-nets-audubon-society-commercial-fishing



A link to a 1994 article about a film produced by Turner Broadcasting for a Audubon Society branch proves....?

Nothing.

And that has NOTHING to do with this thread about the December 2013 actions of trashy gill netters.


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## ssiredfish (Dec 19, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> You didn't show anyone anything. You posted up something you said was evidence, but no back up. Plus, if there was enough to make your accusation's "well Known", you should have zero problem presenting us with plenty of evidence to back up your claims. And a FWI. *I am not, have never been, and never will be a CCA member. They've bailed on too many offshore issues.* You go ahead and keep drinking the koolaid about the net ban amendment, though. And keep on fantasizing that it'll someday get overturned. Ain't gonna happen buddy. You and the other "I should be allowed to kill anything I want, anytime I want, and as much as I want, and no one else should be allowed to catch anything" bunch fixed that permanently.



X2....Im glad someone else feels this way.  They further lost me when they pushed so hard to ban commercial sales of redfish when there was a law already outlawing the illegal sale of redfish.....


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 19, 2013)

ssiredfish said:


> X2....Im glad someone else feels this way.  They further lost me when they pushed so hard to ban commercial sales of redfish when there was a law already outlawing the illegal sale of redfish.....



That's OK. That move added a heap of folks to the organization along with a couple of new chapters.

We'll take the hit and keep growing.


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## ssiredfish (Dec 19, 2013)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> That's OK. That move added a heap of folks to the organization along with a couple of new chapters.
> 
> We'll take the hit and keep growing.



It just made CCA look stupid like yall cant read the rules thats all......


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## asc (Dec 19, 2013)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> A link to a 1994 article about a film produced by Turner Broadcasting for a Audubon Society branch proves....?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> And that has NOTHING to do with this thread about the December 2013 actions of trashy gill netters.


I answered potty's question, now about you're reading comp skills


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## pottydoc (Dec 19, 2013)

asc said:


> You do remember the ads right?
> Or were you even around?
> 
> I'll try to find a little better reference for you to deny..



55 years young right now. I was around, I was right in the middle of it. Watched the roller netters first hand ruin the hook and line commercial and recreational kingfish and Spanish mac fishery on the East Coast. And by first hand I mean being in a boat, watching the spotter planes circling, and watching the net boats run up and then pretty much all but run over anyone who was already fishing the school to get them out of the way. Not on one occasion, but multiple ones. That good enough for ya?


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## pottydoc (Dec 19, 2013)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> A link to a 1994 article about a film produced by Turner Broadcasting for a Audubon Society branch proves....?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> And that has NOTHING to do with this thread about the December 2013 actions of trashy gill netters.



What he said. 

So actually ASC, that's zero relevant references. Still waiting.....


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## pottydoc (Dec 19, 2013)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> That's OK. That move added a heap of folks to the organization along with a couple of new chapters.
> 
> We'll take the hit and keep growing.



You'd grow a lot more if you'd stand up for offshore issues like you do the inshore ones. But that's another thread, we're dang sure on the same side when it comes to ASC and his fellow gill netters.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 20, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> You'd grow a lot more if you'd stand up for offshore issues like you do the inshore ones. But that's another thread, we're dang sure on the same side when it comes to ASC and his fellow gill netters.



CCA has been very active in protecting and improving recreational fisherman's access to offshore fish stocks.

There have been a whole series of mis-statements, mis-truths and down right out and out lies spread here about CCA's stance on things such as red snapper, catch shares, quotas etc. 

CCA's position has also been steadfast against catch shares & recreational quotas & we have lobbyists and advisers dedicated to attending every single meeting of the various NOAA councils as well as working with the legislature to amend MSA to a workable document that allows reasonable access to all fisheries based on REAL SCIENCE.

The members of the Government Relations Committees of all coastal states meet more regularly than you would imagine to discuss, plan and guide those advisers in their dealings with those fishery councils to protect our right to access to the fisheries, more offshore than inshore.

As for the work of CCA Georgia specifically, most of our attention in the local chapters has been aimed at inshore issues. That is because that is where we can have a real impact working in Georgia's state waters, with Georgia's government. 

That does not mean that we are not working with National on offshore issues. Believe me, we spend a great deal of time and effort dealing with deep water fish issues.


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## ssiredfish (Dec 20, 2013)

So when will CCA-GA get back on the offshore bandwagon like the other chapters did?  I actually agree with most of what you said and I should have mentioned that it was indeed our chapter, Georgia, that has kinda given up.  If they havent given up they are not doing a very good job of informing us that they are still in the fight.

I remember when the MSBS act came into fruition that CCA was all over it.  They got shot down in court if I remember correctly and that was the last I heard of their efforts to correct the mess that we are are still in.

I was further convinced they had given up or it became a moot point when yall spent all that effort on creating another law in addition to the law that was already in place.

As far as I can see in the last few years, yall have help create more laws than you have repealed.  Am I wrong?


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 20, 2013)

CCA-GA's GRC Committee is engaged in offshore issues through the vehicle I described in my last post. I assure  you that the CCA-GA has not 'kinda given up' on anything.

If by "MSBS" you mean MSA or Manguson-Stevens Act, CCA, again, as I stated above, is still "all over it". The U. S. House is currently working on draft legislation to reauthorize the Act. We are very active in helping them fix it.

As for HB36 last year which gave game fish status to red drum, there was no law already in place which did that. It is obvious that you are not fond of having Georgia's State Saltwater fish given game fish status but it had a great deal of support among recreational fishermen and that is why it passed as easily as it did.

BTW, that was the shortest law most people remember ever seeing in Georgia. It consists of 2 words. Of course those 2 words were placed in the Code with great strategery.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 20, 2013)

BTW, we have 2 new chapters in your area, Sapelo and St. Mary's.

You should check one out and help us be all you think we should be! Your help would be welcomed!


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## asc (Dec 20, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> 55 years young right now. I was around, I was right in the middle of it. Watched the roller netters first hand ruin the hook and line commercial and recreational kingfish and Spanish mac fishery on the East Coast. And by first hand I mean being in a boat, watching the spotter planes circling, and watching the net boats run up and then pretty much all but run over anyone who was already fishing the school to get them out of the way. Not on one occasion, but multiple ones. That good enough for ya?


I'm 53 and also remember those days.
We were kings.

Still are.


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## grouper throat (Dec 20, 2013)

Awesome pics man. I love the history. We had a house at Steinhatchee for many years back when it was all locals. My grandfather longlined grouper back then when he had time off and I have heard all the stories but nothing like seein pics of it.


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## ssiredfish (Dec 20, 2013)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> CCA-GA's GRC Committee is engaged in offshore issues through the vehicle I described in my last post. I assure  you that the CCA-GA has not 'kinda given up' on anything.
> 
> If by "MSBS" you mean MSA or Manguson-Stevens Act, CCA, again, as I stated above, is still "all over it". The U. S. House is currently working on draft legislation to reauthorize the Act. We are very active in helping them fix it.
> 
> ...



Well if you guys are I commend your efforts though your public relations person might have fallen short on advertising your agenda in the matter because I have heard nothing from it at all.  So again, if you guys are then you get an attaboy from me.

I used to be alot more engaged in it than I am now.  Having a child and an increase in business has diverted my full attention away from it but I am obviously still very passionate about it.  When the first passed the act I had a ton of questions that everyone told me were very logical though I could never get an answer for.  The data interpolation never made sense to me but I found flaws in their execution in almost every other facet this law provided.  I wrote numerous letters, attendind SAFMC meetings, spoke with Roy and Doug about my opinions and even shared my concerns with Bob Black who I believe is still involved with your organization.  It was hot n heavy for a while then it just seemed as though everyone's fire went out but mine.  I HOPE I am wrong but I just havent seen much effort recently for me to think otherwise.....

Yes, I am ticked that CCA help pass that Redfish law.  If you dont have a commercial sale permit($8 I might add) then it is illegal to sell your recreational catch.  For any specie.  Now we have individualized Redfish and set a precedent.  Why?  You think the people doin it illegally before give a darn now?  I dont.  I didnt sell much Redfish but it helped me and the local resturants out.  Those people who sold it dockside illegally(NEVER saw that happen BTW) arent gonna stop boxin these fish because of this law so did it really help the Redfish population or hurt the locals more?  Whats to stop someone from sayin we need this for trout, whitting or flounder despite the fish's "status"?  It just opens other doors as far as Im concerned.....

Ive taken this thread down a different road entirely and I thank you for lettin me up on the soapbox MD, I hope you can see my POV though.....


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 20, 2013)

That's reasonable. We can disagree on whether or not HB36 was a good idea. I don't agree with every idea the other Board members decide to do, or every move made by National, but all in all, CCA is a plus and a positive for the future of recreational fishing.

I got involved in CCA, as well as other NGO's, because I have 6 kids and 10 grandkids to date and I want to be sure they can enjoy hunting and fishing and eating fish they catch for themselves.

We will never see everything in lockstep but all in all we should be able to find enough common ground.

Perhaps CCA's current ED needs to publicize our efforts a bit more, but I do know that current active members get updates at their meetings and via e-mail.


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## pottydoc (Dec 20, 2013)

asc said:


> I'm 53 and also remember those days.
> We were kings.
> 
> Still are.



Yeah, you wish. King of bitter memories about days that ain't never gonna happen again, you mean.

Great pics of 1000's of pounds of fish with absolutely no ice on it spoiling on the boat. Gonna be used for cat food and the like. In other words, wasted. Pics like those were some of the ones that helped nonfishing folks see what an absolute waste of the resource gill netting was/is.


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## asc (Dec 20, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> Yeah, you wish. King of bitter memories about days that ain't never gonna happen again, you mean.
> 
> Great pics of 1000's of pounds of fish with absolutely no ice on it spoiling on the boat. Gonna be used for cat food and the like. In other words, wasted. Pics like those were some of the ones that helped nonfishing folks see what an absolute waste of the resource gill netting was/is.


No, most of the Spanish went to Morrisons Cafeteria chain, They bought hundreds of thousands of pounds for their broiled fish.

Had their own processing plant, not cat food.


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## asc (Dec 20, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> Yeah, you wish. King of bitter memories about days that ain't never gonna happen again, you mean.
> 
> Great pics of 1000's of pounds of fish with absolutely no ice on it spoiling on the boat. Gonna be used for cat food and the like. In other words, wasted. Pics like those were some of the ones that helped nonfishing folks see what an absolute waste of the resource gill netting was/is.


Crewmen made more $$ in one set than you made in 2 -3 months..
I don't see much waste in 40K worth of fish.. 
I see jobs on and off the water. 
This ticket is one set, probably 24-36 hrs work.
Not union plumbing work but grind it out till you can't see/think straight work...
I'm still a king.


Oh yeah, no cat food prices there... snortle.


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## KINCHAFooneeryan (Dec 21, 2013)

> If you dont have a commercial sale permit($8 I might add) then it is illegal to sell your recreational catch



I have no dog in the fight and could care less but this sentence is the definition of an oxymoron. If you sale your catch for profit, you become a commercial fisherman. There's no such thing as a recreational fisherman who sales his catch. 

From Wikipedia: Recreational fishing, also called sport fishing, is fishing for pleasure or competition. It can be contrasted with commercial fishing, which is fishing for profit.


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## pottydoc (Dec 21, 2013)

asc said:


> Crewmen made more $$ in one set than you made in 2 -3 months..
> I don't see much waste in 40K worth of fish..
> I see jobs on and off the water.
> This ticket is one set, probably 24-36 hrs work.
> ...



And the 38k is all profit, right? And you do that 200 days or more a year, right? And what about the kings, how much for them? Anyway you want to try and spend it, you got a boat load of soft fleshed fish piled on top of themselves, with zero ice. Probably Morrison's was the only place you could sell it, everyone knows how well known they were for quality food, much less their seafood. On top of it, I don't see Morrisons on that ticket anywhere. Oh, while we're at it, you want to tell us how much the fish was worth when netters like you caught so much that the fish houses were overloaded with it, and dropped the price to almost nothing? Or when they had so much they wouldn't take it at all? Remember, I was there. I saw all this first hand. I'll bet you aren't making that much money in a year now, much less in one trip. I been there bro. I worked on commercial bugger boats. I hook and lined kings for a long time. I worked on bandit boats> I know what the work is like, I know what the gill nets did to the fish populations. You can be king all you want, but I know what happened, I watched it, and was a part of stopping it. And me and a bunch more on here, and around this State,FL) will be the ones keeping you out of business. Being king of a empty kingdom must be really frustrating for you.


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## asc (Dec 21, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> And the 38k is all profit, right? And you do that 200 days or more a year, right? And what about the kings, how much for them? Anyway you want to try and spend it, you got a boat load of soft fleshed fish piled on top of themselves, with zero ice. Probably Morrison's was the only place you could sell it, everyone knows how well known they were for quality food, much less their seafood. On top of it, I don't see Morrisons on that ticket anywhere. Oh, while we're at it, you want to tell us how much the fish was worth when netters like you caught so much that the fish houses were overloaded with it, and dropped the price to almost nothing? Or when they had so much they wouldn't take it at all? Remember, I was there. I saw all this first hand. I'll bet you aren't making that much money in a year now, much less in one trip. I been there bro. I worked on commercial bugger boats. I hook and lined kings for a long time. I worked on bandit boats> I know what the work is like, I know what the gill nets did to the fish populations. You can be king all you want, but I know what happened, I watched it, and was a part of stopping it. And me and a bunch more on here, and around this State,FL) will be the ones keeping you out of business. Being king of a empty kingdom must be really frustrating for you.


Outsider looking in is what you were..

The bulk of that ticket was for kings??? I guess you didn't comprehend that..
Kings always commanded .75 to $1.00/lb

Spanish were the red headed stepchild with wildly fluctuating prices.

Ticket listed the expenses(fuel/ice) to the fish house, then probably 10% to the spotter plane.
After the plane's share, then 50% of the remaining to the boat with the other 50% to be shared tween the Captain and crew.
I figure each crewman made aprox 4k off that strike. 
If they fished the east coast down to the Keys then they probably got in 8-10 weeks or better.

Morrisons bought Spanish Macs, not kings and they bought from the fish houses.

Between stone crab, snapper, and grouper, I'm still a king.

I'll buy you a beer, heck, I'll buy your dinner next time I see you at the Freezer.

Merry Christmas.


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## ssiredfish (Dec 22, 2013)

KINCHAFooneeryan said:


> I have no dog in the fight and could care less but this sentence is the definition of an oxymoron. If you sale your catch for profit, you become a commercial fisherman. There's no such thing as a recreational fisherman who sales his catch.
> 
> From Wikipedia: Recreational fishing, also called sport fishing, is fishing for pleasure or competition. It can be contrasted with commercial fishing, which is fishing for profit.



Your misinterpreting it.  The permit allows me to sell my Recreational limit.  Despite wether you would consider me Comm or Rec, the state and myself considers me recreational.

I didnt make the name of the permit, if I did it would be called Recreational Sale Permit. Makes more sense....


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## ssiredfish (Dec 22, 2013)

asc said:


> Outsider looking in is what you were..
> 
> The bulk of that ticket was for kings??? I guess you didn't comprehend that..
> Kings always commanded .75 to $1.00/lb



$1/Lb for kings in 1982 is pretty solid work.....

At one point a few summers ago we were gettin $4/Lb for them......that was a good summer, somethin about gaffin $100 bills got my blood pumpin


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## pottydoc (Dec 22, 2013)

ssiredfish said:


> $1/Lb for kings in 1982 is pretty solid work.....
> 
> At one point a few summers ago we were gettin $4/Lb for them......that was a good summer, somethin about gaffin $100 bills got my blood pumpin



If netting them was still allowed you wouldn't be gaffing any of them, there wouldn't be enough to catch. And I got zero problem with hook and line commercial fishing, done a pile of it myself a "few" years ago, and it has never hurt any fish population. Gill netting, fish traps, and long lining are a completely different matter.

ASC, You miss something in my post about being commercial myself? Not much chance of being an outsider. I'm not much of a Freezer fan, since I'm allergic to shrimp, But I'm there occasionaly. I'll take you up on the beer, or if you wanna meet at Cracker's or Charlie's I'll buy. I don't let anything on a forum get under my skin.


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## asc (Dec 22, 2013)

pottydoc said:


> If netting them was still allowed you wouldn't be gaffing any of them, there wouldn't be enough to catch. And I got zero problem with hook and line commercial fishing, done a pile of it myself a "few" years ago, and it has never hurt any fish population. Gill netting, fish traps, and long lining are a completely different matter.
> 
> ASC, You miss something in my post about being commercial myself? Not much chance of being an outsider. I'm not much of a Freezer fan, since I'm allergic to shrimp, But I'm there occasionaly. I'll take you up on the beer, or if you wanna meet at Cracker's or Charlie's I'll buy. I don't let anything on a forum get under my skin.


Still netting kings, open the day after MLK day, if the weather's cold the 700k quota gets filled in 3-4 days by less than 20 boats.

Charlie's is good being as my boat is there.


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## swamp hunter (Dec 23, 2013)

I got mixed feeling here.
I grew up fishin the East Coast. We had Clouds of Kings under the Boat in the early to mid 70's . Drop a line 30 ft. your on.
Net Boats moved in following the Migration and Poof in a couple Years they were gone. You'd be lucky to catch a King.
I've also seen Gillnetters ride the Roe Mullet Schools till there weren't none left.
The Commerical Guys got too good at catchin Fish is what happened. 
10 more Years and they'd have been wiped out. It was a Slaughter.


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