# How long?



## ambush80 (Dec 15, 2010)

How long were Mary and Joseph married before God impregnated her and how long after Jesus was born that Mary and Joseph had children the regular way?


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## Ronnie T (Dec 15, 2010)

Don't know.
They technically were not married when she began carrying God's Son.
They were engaged.


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## polkhunt (Dec 15, 2010)

they were not married


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## dawg2 (Dec 15, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> How long were Mary and Joseph married before God impregnated her and how long after Jesus was born that Mary and Joseph had children the regular way?



Why do you ask?


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## huntmore (Dec 15, 2010)




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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> How long were Mary and Joseph married before God impregnated her and how long after Jesus was born that Mary and Joseph had children the regular way?



In order.

1) Nobody knows

2) She had no other children or "regular way" anything for that matter..
(for) Ever Virgin


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## Ronnie T (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> In order.
> 
> 1) Nobody knows
> 
> ...



Ut oh!  The Bible speaks of Jesus' brothers and sisters.  Even names them.


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## vanguard1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Ut oh!  The Bible speaks of Jesus' brothers and sisters.  Even names them.



this is true. she was not a virgin forever.


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Why do you ask?



It came up while talking with with my Mother In Law.  

I've done some research and many sources say that they were "betrothed", which was viewed culturally as "married".  It was likely that Mary was "dowried" to Joseph at a young age, according to the custom of the times.  After being "betrothed", there was a 1 year "waiting period" before they were allowed to consummate.  It was during this time that Mary was impregnated by the Lord.  Hmm.  

Joseph was said to have had children from another marriage (his wife died).  But some sources say that he and Mary fathered other children after Jesus.

Y'all put on your magical discernment caps on and let me know what God tells you is the truth, please.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> It came up while talking with with my Mother In Law.
> 
> I've done some research and many sources say that they were "betrothed", which was viewed culturally as "married".  It was likely that Mary was "dowried" to Joseph at a young age, according to the custom of the times.  After being "betrothed", there was a 1 year "waiting period" before they were allowed to consummate.  It was during this time that Mary was impregnated by the Lord.  Hmm.
> 
> ...



Discernment cap in place.
They were promised to each other in marriage.(betrothed).
They were within the 1 year waiting period.
If she had sex during that time, wedding off.
The Bible does not speak of Joseph having a previous marriage.
The Bible speaks of Jesus having siblings.

Most anything beyond that would have to come from other sources.


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## rjcruiser (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Y'all put on your magical discernment caps on and let me know what God tells you is the truth, please.


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## dawg2 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> ....Y'all put on your magical discernment caps on and let me know what God tells you is the truth, please.



Can I borrow yours?


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## Gabassmaster (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Y'all put on your magical discernment caps on and let me know what God tells you is the truth, please.



i dont have one... i do have a bible


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## Spotlite (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> It came up while talking with with my Mother In Law.
> 
> I've done some research and many sources say that they were "betrothed", which was viewed culturally as "married".  It was likely that Mary was "dowried" to Joseph at a young age, according to the custom of the times.  After being "betrothed", there was a 1 year "waiting period" before they were allowed to consummate.  It was during this time that Mary was impregnated by the Lord.  Hmm.
> 
> ...


Some sources say none of them ever even existed................... just FYI only, consider your source


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Can I borrow yours?



MY discernment cap told me not to trust it.


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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Ut oh!  The Bible speaks of Jesus' brothers and sisters.  Even names them.



Mr. Ronnie, I beg to differ.

Here's why:

Complete with most of the Protestant arguments that
are explained fully.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp

And..

http://www.catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp

I know _you_ will at least look at the links.

They are from a very creditable Catholic site so I don't
expect that many other Protestants will read it and dismiss the info outright but.. here you go..


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> Mr. Ronnie, I beg to differ.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> ...



Holy Cow!!!!  

That seems like a lot of "He said, she said" to me, but what do I know?  Why not just pray and ask God to tell you how it REALLY went down instead of wading through all those "accounts"?


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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> but what do I know?



_Not much._ I recon...

Like I asked Ham yesterday:

Do you not have an atheist forum to hang out on?


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## Huntinfool (Dec 16, 2010)

Ok, I at least read the first one.  I have a question.  If Mary served in the temple for the rest of her life as a virgin and was regarded as a virgin.....then how did she explain the kid?

I mean, I would assume that the jews of the time did not acknowledge that little 3 year old Jesus was the messiah....am I missing something?  

Did she go into service in the templ and say something to the effect of "oh, yeah....nevermind that kid, I'm a virgin still.  Yeh...God...you see, he impregnated me and this kid, he's not my biological son.  He's actually the triumphant messiah that you guys have been waiting for.  So, TECHNICALLY....I'm still a virgin."

Or maybe her time of service was over?  But then Joseph did have to answer to the temple authorities, right?  So when Joseph had to go answer to the temple authorities....what in the world did he tell them?  "Uh...no, you see, this is actually a miracle baby.  I didn't sleep with her."

And they just let it slide or something?  I'm missing something....I know I am.  I'm assuming they didn't just believe that God miracled that child into existence and HE was the one they'd been waiting for, correct?


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## Huntinfool (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Holy Cow!!!!
> 
> That seems like a lot of "He said, she said" to me, but what do I know?  Why not just pray and ask God to tell you how it REALLY went down instead of wading through all those "accounts"?



Feeling especially grumpy today I see....


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> _Not much._ I recon...
> 
> Like I asked Ham yesterday:
> 
> Do you not have an atheist forum to hang out on?



I now know the information that you linked, which is more than I knew before.  Should I take it as Gospel and not question it?  Do you not recognize this as a question best answered by Christians?  Besides, the "apologists" are making too much noise down there.



Huntinfool said:


> Feeling especially grumpy today I see....



Inquisitive......


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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Should I take it as Gospel and not question it?



You would do well to do just that. 

I know it's hard to read in my avatar but after the "What has been seen" part
comes the "cannot be un-seen" part.


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> You would do well to do just that.
> 
> I know it's hard to read in my avatar but after the "What has been seen" part
> comes the "cannot be un-seen" part.



Even this part?:  Protoevangelium of James


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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Even this part?:  Protoevangelium of James



That too.. 

The Protoevangelium of James... 

Go HERE:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> That too..
> 
> The Protoevangelium of James...
> 
> ...




I don't recall the Book of Tobit.


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## Big7 (Dec 16, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I don't recall the Book of Tobit.



You need a new book.. 

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/alpha.htm#tobit

Then.. For the rest.. GO HERE:

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml

Next..


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> You need a new book..
> 
> http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/alpha.htm#tobit
> 
> ...



I have a feeling there are Protestant fingers poised, trembling over keyboards.   I sure hope no one gets banned.


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## huntmore (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh I bet there are some protestants who passed out after big 7's  4:19 post.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 16, 2010)

Big7 said:


> Mr. Ronnie, I beg to differ.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> ...




Okay, you have tickled my investagative nature.
After some research I am willing to say that some of the scripture that I customarily claim speaks of Jesus' brothers, probably is referring to Jesus' Christian brethren.
I'm not prepared to say Mary had no other children but I'm thinking and I gonna be looking.

One question I've been asking this afternoon is:  If Joseph was still with Mary, getting her pregnant, why don't we hear more about Joseph after Jesus' baptism?

The investigation continues.

Ronnie


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## Ronnie T (Dec 16, 2010)

Matthew 1:25
25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Sounds like after Jesus was born, they did it.


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## ambush80 (Dec 16, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Matthew 1:25
> 25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
> 
> Sounds like after Jesus was born, they did it.



"Until".  After that?


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## Big7 (Dec 17, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> "Until".  After that?



I see you have learned to type BIG
Anymore tricks?

Check out footnote # 12 HERE:

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew1.htm

Then, go back and re-read the other two links.

Mr. Ronnie, since you are really trying to learn - or teach me something.. I will get back to you when I get home from work this evening.


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## vanguard1 (Dec 17, 2010)

Question: "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"

Answer: Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings.

Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for “cousin,” and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers.

A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7) or their trip to Egypt (Matthew 2:13-15) or their trip back to Nazareth (Matthew 2:20-23)?

There is no biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: “But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus” (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll.


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## The Original Rooster (Dec 18, 2010)

Big7 said:


> Mr. Ronnie, I beg to differ.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> ...



Fascinating Big7. Thanks for posting.

Deck chairs on the Titanic fellows!
The fact that Mary gave birth as a virgin is all that matters to me. What she did afterwards is academic. My opinion is that she probably did have other children with Joseph, but that matters very little.


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## apoint (Dec 19, 2010)

excellent post Vanguard. You are gifted.


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## **k9** (Dec 19, 2010)

Big7 said:


> In order.
> 
> 1) Nobody knows
> 
> ...



Wrong again:

1.)  God knows for sure. Maybe Joseph and Mary too.


Though you will probably put vain tradition of men over scripture: Joseph and Mary did have other children. The word of God clearly states that Joseph did not know his wife TILL she had brought forth her FIRSTBORN. 


2.) Joseph later know his wife and they, Joseph and Mary did have children together.

 Also, Mary for sure was not ever-virgin. She was a virgin until after Jesus was born, then she had other children with Joseph her husband. Mary is  not however, the mother of the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mt 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
 Mt 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

 Mt 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

 Mt 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mt 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

 Mt 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 Mr 3:31 ¶ There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

Mr 3:32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

Mt 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: Mt 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn 
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Joh 2:12 ¶ After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days.

Ac 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Ga 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Which will it be for you, the word of God or traditions of men? (Just a rhetorical question)


 By the way: This next verse for you eliminates any Brother- Breathren concern, as Jesus also had SISTERS.

Mt 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?


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## Ronnie T (Dec 19, 2010)

My complete investigation is over.

After a through examination of scriptures use of the word "brother" as it is connected to Jesus, I still believe Jesus had siblings that were born to His mother, Mary.
In some verses "brother" should actually say "brethren" of Jesus, not his blood brothers.
But in other places, reliable text are very clear that it speaks of children of Mary, not children of someone else.
At least, that's what I see.


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## OntheFlyTyer (Dec 19, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> Question: "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"
> 
> Answer: Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings.
> 
> ...





apoint said:


> excellent post Vanguard. You are gifted.





> Copyright Policy: While all of the material on the GotQuestions.org website is under copyright protection, the only purpose of our copyright is to make sure people copy it right. As long as you always clearly reference and/or link to www.gotquestions.org as the source of the material, you have our permission to copy, print, and distribute our material.



http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html


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## apoint (Dec 19, 2010)

Still excellent post vanguard.


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## dawg2 (Dec 19, 2010)

Ironically, this was the sermon at church today.


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## mtnwoman (Dec 19, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I have a feeling there are Protestant fingers poised, trembling over keyboards.   I sure hope no one gets banned.



Really? Trembling? You should be trembling, but you are blind to that.


Even the world we live in today.....artificial insemination is possible and a virgin could give birth without ever having relations with a man. So it ain't exactly impossible, ya know? Can you grasp that?

I can't read that scripture and say it's impossible for a virgin to give birth, can you?


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## mtnwoman (Dec 19, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> There is no biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: “But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus” (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.
> 
> Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll.



I agree. A virgin could become pregnant (scientifically) today and then conceive by her husband and give birth to more children later on. Why is that so impossible to accept?

If you remotely believe in science you can figure that out.


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## Big7 (Dec 20, 2010)

Big7 said:


> I see you have learned to type BIG
> Anymore tricks?
> 
> Check out footnote # 12 HERE:
> ...



http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=5605592&postcount=32

Mr. Ronnie.. Sorry I didn't get back to you on the thread.I just
thought it would invite more trolls and Christian discource, so I didn't want to go there.
But as usual, I am doing it anyway.

I am Catholic. I can only offer Catholic teaching as I understand it. (not much "wiggle room")
I have never had to defend it like I do on here.

In short: I believe that the Church that Jesus Himself founded was bound and loosed
as scripture states and that He would protect the infallibility of the church.

I can only, respectfully refer you to the C.C.C. on the stuff I don't have on the top
of my head.

FYI: My Father is Protestant. His Mother, (My Grandmother) was a charter member of 
http://www.corinthchristian.org/. and has the "Founder's Hall" named after her.
Stella Mae (maiden name Hudson) Green
She was 92 when she went home.
This is a great honor for our family.

My Father and Uncle were baptized behind the Church
in a COLD spring..  and I go there from time to time to reflect.
Not sure where she was baptized or my Grandfather.. Somewhere in the neighborhood, I suspect.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


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## **k9** (Dec 20, 2010)

With great respect to everyone, as we have various beliefs,  If there is one thing that I could advise us all to do, it would be that we all study the word of God for ourselves, so that what we believe is a conviction based upon God's word. 

When I tell some to study and give them this verse, they often take it the wrong way. I really mean it in a good way.
If I think someone is just ignorant (without understanding) and just spouting their shame, I may tell them bluntly, if the are just trying to be a smart anatomy. 

However, when it comes to the word of God and my soul and my families soul, and my relationship with the Lord, I dare not take the word of anyone else, but the word of God.  I dare not trust on lean to my own understanding!!!! 

I listen and have listened to many good messages from the word of God preached, but I always study it out for myself from the word of God to see whether those things were so.  I do not follow or give space to  the vain tradition of men, no not for a moment.  

I do not play church for anyone nor do I allow others to, "tell me what the bible verses mean".  I tell young preachers all the time, Don't tell me what it means......, tell me what it says.  The spirit of God remains with me and will teach me and give me the understanding of the word of God, my part is to study the scriptures.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 Ac 17:11  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I thank God that He taught me to have my own convictions and what I believe is based upon the word of God. 

Those who preached the word faithfully helped to encourage me to study for that very purpose. Also, when I heard an error, I for sure knew that I needed to study for myself.

Let's set about to encourage each other to study the word, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and live a life pleasing to the Lord, who gave us an unspeakable gift.


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## apoint (Dec 20, 2010)

The ONLY infallible is the WORD Himself. Forget religion.


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## joedublin (Dec 23, 2010)

AS AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE WOULD SAY..."TOO MUCH CHIN BOOGIE'...you either believe, or you don't....I believe!!!


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