# Confirmation bias



## atlashunter (Oct 10, 2017)

Several years ago a Pentecostal family friend had a three year old outside playing with other kids. They got locked in a hot car and couldn't get out. When the mom found him he was unconscious and foaming at the mouth. He was flown by helicopter to the hospital. You can imagine how all of them prayed that the baby be saved as they rushed to the hospital. The little boy could not be revived and was pronounced dead.

If the doctors had managed to save his life there is no doubt they would have credited god and called it a miracle. It would have been testimony that their prayers worked. Do you think the dead child served to invalidate their faith? Not a chance. This is confirmation bias. Count the hits and ignore the misses. You can get the same results praying to anything or nothing at all.

It never occurs to the believers in prayer that if prayer actually summoned a supernatural force in their favor that their results would be better than others and could be verified.


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## bullethead (Oct 10, 2017)

Yeah, I can't wrap my head around a loving and caring god, who is everywhere at all times, only steps in when asked......well sometimes.


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## atlashunter (Oct 10, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Yeah, I can't wrap my head around a loving and caring god, who is everywhere at all times, only steps in when asked......well sometimes.



Yes that is the other aspect of this. They actually have to believe there was someone with the power to help who stood by and watched this unfold from beginning to end and chose to let the kid suffer and die. And they worship this monster.


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## welderguy (Oct 11, 2017)

You're not understanding THE most important thing here. The greatest "miracle" is their ability to believe in the first place. That has nothing to do with the child living or dying. Belief in Him is what caused them to pray. God had already worked that in them beforehand.


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## atlashunter (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> You're not understanding THE most important thing here. The greatest "miracle" is their ability to believe in the first place. That has nothing to do with the child living or dying. Belief in Him is what caused them to pray. God had already worked that in them beforehand.



Who is working in those that pray to other gods?


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## welderguy (Oct 11, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Who is working in those that pray to other gods?



Same One I speak of. 
He blinds some to the truth. Still for His own pleasure and purpose.


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## welderguy (Oct 11, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Yeah, I can't wrap my head around a loving and caring god, who is everywhere at all times, only steps in when asked......well sometimes.



Are you sure He loves every single person?
Even the ones who will be eternally separated from Him??


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## atlashunter (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Same One I speak of.
> He blinds some to the truth. Still for His own pleasure and purpose.



Really? This god of yours inspires people to pray to false gods? Tell me more about this. Is this something you got from a bible verse or are you just making this up as you go?


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## atlashunter (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Are you sure He loves every single person?
> Even the ones who will be eternally separated from Him??



If someone stood by and watched my child suffer and die without lifting a finger to help I would not conclude they loved me or my child.


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## ambush80 (Oct 11, 2017)

There's the catch all "His ways are not our ways."


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## welderguy (Oct 11, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Really? This god of yours inspires people to pray to false gods? Tell me more about this. Is this something you got from a bible verse or are you just making this up as you go?



.Rom.9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


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## atlashunter (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> .Rom.9:18
> 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.



Does that verse also apply to homosexuals?


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## swampstalker24 (Oct 11, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Really? This god of yours inspires people to pray to false gods? Tell me more about this. Is this something you got from a bible verse or are you just making this up as you go?



And for his own pleasure no doubt.  

It always amazes me that even in the most horrific of incidents folks will still see "miracles"    yet they fail to understand that if their god does indeed occasionally intervene in the workings of this world then the other 99.9999999% of the time that same god makes a conscience decision not to intervene....


If he is able but unwilling to prevent evil then he is not a benevolent being.


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## bullethead (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Are you sure He loves every single person?
> Even the ones who will be eternally separated from Him??



I am sure there is no "he" as you and others describe.


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## 660griz (Oct 11, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> There's the catch all "His ways are not our ways."



Unless he creates DNA and mathematical equations. 
Then, our way and his way match up. Miracle I tell ya.

I think we all know what a God that use to perform all kinds of miracles could and should do for his loving flock. 
He doesn't...and gets away with it.


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## ambush80 (Oct 11, 2017)

swampstalker24 said:


> And for his own pleasure no doubt.
> 
> It always amazes me that even in the most horrific of incidents folks will still see "miracles"    yet they fail to understand that if their god does indeed occasionally intervene in the workings of this world then the other 99.9999999% of the time that same god makes a conscience decision not to intervene....
> 
> ...



If you "mind job" yourself you can then you assume that He is doing is kind and loving.  Even if He creates you as a Vessel of Wrath; born to suffer eternally.  It's really quite amazing what the mind is capable of.  It's the curse of the big brain.  It allows us to achieve the sublime as well as the ridiculous.


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## ambush80 (Oct 11, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Are you sure He loves every single person?
> Even the ones who will be eternally separated from Him??




Of course He does, silly.   The Bible says God wishes that none should perish but He's so Goddy that He can make some to perish and still love them.  It's a God kind of love that we can't understand. 

Enjoy that.


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## welderguy (Oct 12, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Of course He does, silly.  's so Goddy that He can make some to perish and still love them.  It's a God kind of love that we can't understand.
> 
> Enjoy that.



This statement you made...
" The Bible says God wishes that none should perish.."
...is out of context of what Peter is declaring.

He's speaking of those who have been given the promise(the elect). He addressed those way back in chapter one, and has not deviated from that audience.

This promise has not been given to the unelect.


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## atlashunter (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Does that verse also apply to homosexuals?


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## welderguy (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Does that verse also apply to homosexuals?



The homosexual could fit into either side of that verse, according to God's predestined purpose for that individual.

Some homosexuals are called out of their darkness, while others are not.
He determined all of it before creation.

Romans 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,


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## atlashunter (Oct 12, 2017)

welderguy said:


> The homosexual could fit into either side of that verse, according to God's predestined purpose for that individual.
> 
> Some homosexuals are called out of their darkness, while others are not.
> He determined all of it before creation.



God inspires people to pray to false gods and engage in homosexual acts? I would love to see you make that argument up in the christianity forum and see how many of your coreligionists agree.


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## welderguy (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> God inspires people to pray to false gods and engage in homosexual acts? I would love to see you make that argument up in the christianity forum and see how many of your coreligionists agree.



Here's what I think you don't understand. We are cursed with a sinful nature(all of us). Our default is to sin and run away from God.James said "we are drawn away of our own lusts". It's only by His sovereign grace that any of us obtain faith to do anything right in His eyes. But, like I said, not all have obtained this faith through grace.


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## atlashunter (Oct 12, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Here's what I think you don't understand. We are cursed with a sinful nature(all of us). Our default is to sin and run away from God.James said "we are drawn away of our own lusts". It's only by His sovereign grace that any of us obtain faith to do anything right in His eyes. But, like I said, not all have obtained this faith through grace.



Sounds like you're dancing around a "yes" to my question. Who gave man this sinful nature?


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## welderguy (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Sounds like you're dancing around a "yes" to my question. Who gave man this sinful nature?



I perceive that you would love to make God a bad guy here. I do not.
God said the day you eat there of, you shall surely die. They ate, they died spiritually and guess what. A spiritually dead person can do nothing but sin... without grace.


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## atlashunter (Oct 12, 2017)

welderguy said:


> I perceive that you would love to make God a bad guy here. I do not.



You made him look bad when you claimed he inspired people to pray to other gods, which presumably dooms them to be eternally tortured in the afterlife according to christianity.




welderguy said:


> God said the day you eat there of, you shall surely die. They ate, they died spiritually and guess what. A spiritually dead person can do nothing but sin... without grace.



They died after they sinned and thereby gained a sinful nature? So they gave themselves a sinful nature by way of their first sin? How did they sin in the first place without a sinful nature? And if they gave it to themselves then in what sense does god inspire people to sin?

I get the impression you're just making this stuff up as you go and haven't really thought through the implications.

Back to your original point. I don't find it miraculous at all that they turned to prayer. They were all indoctrinated from childhood to do so.


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## bullethead (Oct 12, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Here's what I think you don't understand. We are cursed with a sinful nature(all of us). Our default is to sin and run away from God.James said "we are drawn away of our own lusts". It's only by His sovereign grace that any of us obtain faith to do anything right in His eyes. But, like I said, not all have obtained this faith through grace.


It's not that he doesn't understand it. It is that he does not agree with your interpretation. Mainly, and I am taking an educated guess here, because you do not know anything for sure and certainly no more than the next guy.


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## atlashunter (Oct 12, 2017)

bullethead said:


> It's not that he doesn't understand it. It is that he does not agree with your interpretation. Mainly, and I am taking an educated guess here, because you do not know anything for sure and certainly no more than the next guy.



I'm not saying the interpretation is right or wrong. I'm just following the implications and looking for some consistency.


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## swampstalker24 (Oct 12, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Here's what I think you don't understand. We are cursed with a sinful nature(all of us). Our default is to sin and run away from God.James said "we are drawn away of our own lusts". It's only by His sovereign grace that any of us obtain faith to do anything right in His eyes. But, like I said, not all have obtained this faith through grace.



I remember as a child being told I was created "perfectly" in every way by god himself; a god who does not make mistakes.

Yet on sunday mornings I would sit in the pew and listen as the preacher told me the exact opposite...  I was a flawed creation, imperfect, unworthy of god's kingdom.

Even as a child the dichotomy was clear as day.


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## bullethead (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I'm not saying the interpretation is right or wrong. I'm just following the implications and looking for some consistency.



Yeah, that would certainly help.


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