# .308 in a 18 inch barrel



## DYI hunting (Dec 31, 2008)

I am looking at a FN PBR (Patrol Bolt Rifle) in either 18, 20 or 22 inch barrel.  How does the .308 preform out of a 18 inch barrel in terms of range lost and accuracy?


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## ATLRoach (Dec 31, 2008)

Actually 308s preform very very well in short barreled guns. 

Also,Forget the FN unless you want the SPR. The 700SPS Tactical offers the same accuracy for less. Plus you get more options for the aftermarket.


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## DYI hunting (Dec 31, 2008)

I love the 700 SPS but was told by the dealer the FN is much better rifle.  Might need to do some rethinking about his advice.


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## ATLRoach (Dec 31, 2008)

FN PBR has a full length bedding block where the SPS does not. The FN is any where from 200-300 more. Heck you can buy a SPS and buy a take off stock (700P/PSS/5R/VS)for less than the FN, ending up with a better gun.


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## Hammack (Dec 31, 2008)

Just my two cents, but I personally think the FN is the better rifle, and this comes from a remington man.  The FN has controlled round feeding, the better stock, and a detachable magazine that the 700 doesn't have.  Not to mention to be perfectly honest I have not been real happy with the tolerances of the machine work on the 700's recently.


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## Carpathia (Jan 1, 2009)

DYI hunting said:


> I am looking at a FN PBR (Patrol Bolt Rifle) in either 18, 20 or 22 inch barrel.  How does the .308 preform out of a 18 inch barrel in terms of range lost and accuracy?



If I'm not mistaken, an 18" barrel is illegal.


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## georgiaboy (Jan 1, 2009)

Carpathia said:


> If I'm not mistaken, an 18" barrel is illegal.



Under 16" on a rifle is illegal and under 18" is for shotgun.

Unless you get the ATF magic stamp..


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## BookHound (Jan 1, 2009)

Carpathia said:


> If I'm not mistaken, an 18" barrel is illegal.



You are mistaken.  16" is the legal limit.  Below that you just need the weapon registered as an SBR (Short Barrel Rifle).

The FN guns are nice.  The Remington 700s have a ton of aftermarket accessories available.

The FN controlled feed system makes feeding just one round straight into the chamber a problem.  It does have good bottom metal with a four-round magazine.  My personal experience with a few of these guns is that they are sub-MOA performers out of the box with quality factory loads.  It is a 1:12 barrel so something in the 168-grain area works very well.

Use simply lose velocity with a shorter barrel.  If you are wanting to really reach out past 500-yards I'd consider a 20" barrel.  That is the length I went with on my 700 and the rifle feels great.  The extra velocity you gain with a longer barrel simply makes for a slightly flatter trajectory.  I only shoot mine to 800-yards.  The key is knowing your dope.

Mark


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## GA1dad (Jan 1, 2009)

I cannot make a statement on velocity, as I have no way to judge it. But I can state that accuracy in my little Vanguard in under an inch at a hundred yards with CoreLokt over the counter stuff. And that's with the pencil barrel.


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## Wide Earp (Jan 1, 2009)

I have had an FN pbr xp [from what I have heard shoots as well as the spr], an ltr [remington] and a 5-r mil-spec remington and out of the box the FN was the better shooter but it had the 24" bbl


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## cmshoot (Jan 1, 2009)

As to accuracy, an 18" .308 can be accurate, or more so, than any other barrel length.  Tests done by Tactical Operations out of CA show that the bullet is fully stabilized in a barrel much shorter than that, and a shorter barrel is stiffer than a long one (provided they both have the same size OD).

You will, however, lose velocity on the shorter barrels.  I've shot 20" bolt action .308's successfully out to 1000 yards, and I've shot my 16" Springfield Armory SOCOM successfully out to about 550yds (furthest I've tried so far).

The FN SPR's are very accurate rifles.  I don't like the CRF or the Winchester-style safety on a precision rifle, but they are rock-solid rifles and the chrome-lined barrels are great.  In tests, their barrels have gone 10,000 rounds + with no degradation in accuracy.  One of my SWAT-issued Sniper's rifles was an Accuracy International HS-2000 with a 20" non-fluted barrel.  I liked everything about that rifle, except for the Win700-style safety.  I couldn't reach it with my hand in a firing grip.  I would have to move my hand off the grip to engage or disengage it.  This also meant that on a callout I couldn't tactilely verify if I was on or off Safe with the rifle in a firing grip.  When I shoot my Rem700, I keep my rifle thumb on the right-side of the stock's grip.  It's quicker to work the bolt this way, and my thumb rests on the safety.  I know it's off by feel.

I wouldn't classify the FN's or the Remington's as more accurate than the other.  I've seen out of the box versions of both shoot .25MOA, and I've seen ones shoot 1MOA.  Get the one that has the features that you want, and fits your budget.

I've seen out of the box $750 Rem700P's shoot .25MOA, after tuning the trigger and lapping the barrel.  That's all work that is easily down by the owner, and takes around 30 minutes to do.  I've yet to shoot a Rem700 Mil Spec 5R that didn't go .5MOA, and many shot .25MOA. 

The Rem700 has all others beat hands down when it comes to aftermarket accessories.  Yes, the FN can be had from the factory with a detachable box magazine, but the rifle costs quite a bit more than the Rem700.  For the difference in price, you can have the Badger Ordnance or Tactical Rifles bottom metal installed on your Rem700, and use the much easier to obtain (and built like a tank) Accuracy International magazines.  To boot, the AI mags are available in 5 and 10-round capacity.  

To sweeten the pot, I've been testing a couple of copies of the 10rd mags made by a company called Accuracy Mag.  They have been working flawlessly for me, are easy to find, cost about $10 less than the AI mags, and have a full, money-back guarantee.

I use a 24" barrel on my custom Rem700 in .308, but I routinely shoot at 1000 + yards.  

I prefer a custom rifle built on a Remington action.  I've been doing this stuff for about 20 years now, and I know what combination of features I want in a rifle;  and it ain't available over the counter.  For instance, I use a 1:10" twist barrel.  Most all the production rifles use a 1:12".  I like a McMillan A5 stock with adjustable LOP and cheekpiece (I like the AICS as well, and the Manners MCS-T4), Tactical Rifles steel bottom metal with AICS magazines, cut rifling in the barrel (most production rifles are button rifled), scope mounting holes opened to 8-32, an oversized recoil lug, and a polished and tuned factory Remington trigger.  

That's the beauty of having a rifle built;  you get _exactly_ what you want.


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## Wide Earp (Jan 1, 2009)

" For instance, I use a 1:10" twist barrel."

what weight/type bullets work best in this?


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## JustUs4All (Jan 1, 2009)

I can't speak to the rifles you are looking at, but I like short rifles and the .308 performs very well in a short barrel.  I hunt with a Win Mod 70 and a Rem Mod 700.  Both are .308 and both have 16 3/4 inch barrels.  Accuracy is superb and I have gotten passthroughs with the off side shoulder broken at 235 yards with 150 gr psps.


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## cmshoot (Jan 1, 2009)

I shoot 175 Sierra Matchkings.  

I've shot some 168's out of it as well, and they shot as well as they do out of any 1:12" that I've used.


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## Wide Earp (Jan 1, 2009)

cmshoot said:


> I shoot 175 Sierra Matchkings.
> 
> I've shot some 168's out of it as well, and they shot as well as they do out of any 1:12" that I've used.



thanks


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## DYI hunting (Jan 2, 2009)

Settled today on a FN PBR 20" flutted barrel for $740 out the door.  I think I got a decent deal.  Now all I need is bipod, optics, rings and plenty of ammo then I will be set.


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## cmshoot (Jan 2, 2009)

That's a nice stick.  What kinda budget do you have for your optics?


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## DYI hunting (Jan 3, 2009)

cmshoot said:


> That's a nice stick.  What kinda budget do you have for your optics?



Since it was more expensive than I planned on getting, it looks like I have about $500 - $600 for optics plus some extra for a nice set of rings and a bipod.


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## Beartrkkr (Jan 3, 2009)

Did that mount come with it?  A good rail is usually a few pesos as well.


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