# less critters



## Mark R (May 13, 2020)

seems like everywhere I have been lately , especially in north ga , there is less squirrel and rabbit population . maybe they all moved to town . in the woods on public land population is way down . they say small game hunter numbers have dramatically decreased . do you think the animals decreased too ?


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## Ruger#3 (May 13, 2020)

Mark R said:


> seems like everywhere I have been lately , especially in north ga , there is less squirrel and rabbit population . maybe they all moved to town . in the woods on public land population is way down . they say small game hunter numbers have dramatically decreased . do you think the animals decreased too ?



Yes, I enjoy rabbit hunting with beagles. I’ve put in some miles on WMAs trying to jump a bunny.

The small game hunter decrease is due to the lack of emphasis by DNR. The money is in horns and feathers so little attention is given small game. We’re our own worst enemy by not making more small game hunting readily available to start the next generation of hunters. Much easier to get a kid interested walking about with the excitement of hounds running vs sitting quiet in the cold in my opinion.


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## NCHillbilly (May 13, 2020)

Plenty around here. Except in places where people "take care of" their property too much.


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## Ruger#3 (May 13, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Plenty around here. Except in places where people "take care of" their property too much.



When I get invited to private property there seems to be plenty around. The land is managed different. Some WMAs here are pretty sparsely populated by small game.


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## antharper (May 13, 2020)

I believe coyotes work on the rabbit population where I hunt


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## Doug B. (May 13, 2020)

I see plenty of squirrels and rabbits here in the mountains. I have squirrel dogs and seems to be plenty to hunt every year if you are willing to get out there with them.


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## greg j (May 13, 2020)

I work part time at a golf course and its loaded with squirrels and chipmunks.  Theres a Red Tail Hawk trying to keep the population in check....


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## GSPEED (May 15, 2020)

Went 8 to 10 times on Warwomam finally saw 2 cutting in a hickory nut tree, felt sorry for them and never even took my gun off my shoulder, no dog just walking. As a kid there was plenty of small game and that was how most of us started hunting, now you see squirrels like we used to see deer. Went to Lake Russell and walked for couple of hours and finally there it was, a bird flew in front of me. Scared to take my grandson as it would probably scar him for life.


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## NCHillbilly (May 16, 2020)

Ruger#3 said:


> When I get invited to private property there seems to be plenty around. The land is managed different. Some WMAs here are pretty sparsely populated by small game.


Loads of squirrels on the National Forest here. And coons. Nobody much hunts them any more. Not nearly as many rabbits or grouse since they quit logging, though.


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## Nicodemus (May 16, 2020)

We`ve got plenty of every small game that South Georgia supports, and that includes wild quail. Up until last year, we did have a shortage of rabbits, but they have come back really good.


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## NCHillbilly (May 17, 2020)

I have herds of rabbits around my house this year. And probably about 6-8 squirrels in the yard right now eating maple seeds.


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## Doug B. (May 18, 2020)

GSPEED said:


> Went 8 to 10 times on Warwomam finally saw 2 cutting in a hickory nut tree, felt sorry for them and never even took my gun off my shoulder, no dog just walking. As a kid there was plenty of small game and that was how most of us started hunting, now you see squirrels like we used to see deer. Went to Lake Russell and walked for couple of hours and finally there it was, a bird flew in front of me. Scared to take my grandson as it would probably scar him for life.


Everywhere that I went on Warwoman that had mash I saw several squirrels.  Not everywhere on Warwoman had mash.  No mash = no game.


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## Ruger#3 (May 18, 2020)

across the river said:


> The decrease in small game hunters has nothing to do with DNR.  That is complete hogwash.  Small game hunting is down across the board on private land as well, and has way more to do with demographics and habitat change than anything else, especially the DNR.  There is plenty of small game hunting to be had on public land if people just put forth the effort.   To answer the original posters question, no, I have not notice a decrease in small game.   I'm stuck in a neighbor hood and I see tons of rabbit and squirrels in the yard.  Same goes for when I go hunting in the country.   It is all about habitat, like it always has been.



Respectfully, your spot on about habit. Please provide links to habit improvement efforts on the WMAs target at small game. Further, please provide links to organized state funded small game hunting events or seasons on WMAs.

I’ve lived in a number of states and saw cooperative efforts through food plots and habitat improvement specifically for small game. It isn’t happening here. Again, I appreciate your opinion and response.


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## across the river (May 18, 2020)

Ruger#3 said:


> Respectfully, your spot on about habit. Please provide links to habit improvement efforts on the WMAs target at small game. Further, please provide links to organized state funded small game hunting events or seasons on WMAs.
> 
> I’ve lived in a number of states and saw cooperative efforts through food plots and habitat improvement specifically for small game. It isn’t happening here. Again, I appreciate your opinion and response.



My statement was small game hunter numbers have nothing to do with the DNR still stands.  I've never heard of any game agencies managing for raccoon, opossum, squirrel, or fox, so I will assume you are referring to quail and rabbit, both of which obviously thrive in early succession habitat.  There are several WMAs managed for quail, and nearly 50 quota quail hunts.   There is at least one rabbit quota hunt that I know of.  You can obviously use a computer, so you can look them up if you are interested.   If you combine all of the applicants for all of the quail and rabbit hunts combined, it wouldn't total a 10th of the applicants for deer hunting.  However, you can't blame that strictly opportunities presented by the DNR, because there are nearly as many alligator applications as there are deer, with very fewer opportunities available comparitivly.  There are also way more applicants for fewer waterfowl opportunities, so the notion that the DNR opportunities provided correlates to the hunter numbers is again, hogwash.

They are cutting trees all over the state on public land.  Doesn't do much for quail in areas there aren't many quail, but it does provide opportunities for rabbits.      I get that small game hunters want more opportunities for small game hunting, but like everything else in life, if you are waiting on the government to provide them for you, you will be disappointed.  

Things are controlled by supply and demand.  There is way more demand for deer, waterfowl, and turkey than there is for rabbit and quail.  It would make no sense for the DNR to pour a bunch of time and money into specifically managing habitat for small game (or even waterfowl) in "hopes' of bringing on more small game and waterfowl hunters.  In large part because the DNR can't create enough "public land" habitat to really make a difference in either case.  The DNR doesn't have the money and the state overall doesn't have the hunter numbers to justify it.


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## Ruger#3 (May 18, 2020)

across the river said:


> My statement was small game hunter numbers have nothing to do with the DNR still stands.  I've never heard of any game agencies managing for raccoon, opossum, squirrel, or fox, so I will assume you are referring to quail and rabbit, both of which obviously thrive in early succession habitat.  There are several WMAs managed for quail, and nearly 50 quota quail hunts.   There is at least one rabbit quota hunt that I know of.  You can obviously use a computer, so you can look them up if you are interested.   If you combine all of the applicants for all of the quail and rabbit hunts combined, it wouldn't total a 10th of the applicants for deer hunting.  However, you can't blame that strictly opportunities presented by the DNR, because there are nearly as many alligator applications as there are deer, with very fewer opportunities available comparitivly.  There are also way more applicants for fewer waterfowl opportunities, so the notion that the DNR opportunities provided correlates to the hunter numbers is again, hogwash.
> 
> They are cutting trees all over the state on public land.  Doesn't do much for quail in areas there aren't many quail, but it does provide opportunities for rabbits.      I get that small game hunters want more opportunities for small game hunting, but like everything else in life, if you are waiting on the government to provide them for you, you will be disappointed.
> 
> Things are controlled by supply and demand.  There is way more demand for deer, waterfowl, and turkey than there is for rabbit and quail.  It would make no sense for the DNR to pour a bunch of time and money into specifically managing habitat for small game (or even waterfowl) in "hopes' of bringing on more small game and waterfowl hunters.  In large part because the DNR can't create enough "public land" habitat to really make a difference in either case.  The DNR doesn't have the money and the state overall doesn't have the hunter numbers to justify it.



We’ll leave it a disagreement that we and DNR can invest in the future of our sport by more focus and investment small game.


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## oldguy (May 19, 2020)

Ruger#3 said:


> Respectfully, your spot on about habit. Please provide links to habit improvement efforts on the WMAs target at small game. Further, please provide links to organized state funded small game hunting events or seasons on WMAs.
> 
> I’ve lived in a number of states and saw cooperative efforts through food plots and habitat improvement specifically for small game. It isn’t happening here. Again, I appreciate your opinion and response.


Google "Georgia Bobwhite Quail Initiative" or look at the Tall Timbers website or better yet take a tour of Chicasawhatchee and Elmodel MWAs in SOWEGA.


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## Fletch_W (May 19, 2020)

Around my subdivision, plenty.

 Out at Redlands when I went in Feb, I walked from the station down to the pond, followed the creek to the river, then cut through back to the road, then walked back up to the fields, then walked the entire perimeter of the field, then up and down several of the rows of crops, and finally back to the car. 

I saw one spot of squirrel sign, a chewed up pine cone.

I neither saw nor heard a single squirrel. 

I saw zero rabbits and zero droppings, and zero sign. 

Deer sign everywhere though.


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## alwayslookin (May 19, 2020)

antharper said:


> I believe coyotes work on the rabbit population where I hunt



I found what looked like rabbit hair/kill on two separate food plots in March while turkey hunting.  I know I had a rabbit on cam there last fall too.  Figured yotes.


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## oldways (May 21, 2020)

alwayslookin said:


> I found what looked like rabbit hair/kill on two separate food plots in March while turkey hunting.  I know I had a rabbit on cam there last fall too.  Figured yotes.


It may have been a coyote but a lot of predators enjoy a rabbit dinner hawks owls bobcats any of them will kill one given the chance. Coyotes seem to always get the blame for anything killed in the woods. Just my two cents good luck to you and yours..


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## Rulo (May 22, 2020)

across the river said:


> My statement was small game hunter numbers have nothing to do with the DNR still stands.  I've never heard of any game agencies managing for raccoon, opossum, squirrel, or fox, so I will assume you are referring to quail and rabbit, both of which obviously thrive in early succession habitat.  There are several WMAs managed for quail, and nearly 50 quota quail hunts.   There is at least one rabbit quota hunt that I know of.  You can obviously use a computer, so you can look them up if you are interested.   If you combine all of the applicants for all of the quail and rabbit hunts combined, it wouldn't total a 10th of the applicants for deer hunting.  However, you can't blame that strictly opportunities presented by the DNR, because there are nearly as many alligator applications as there are deer, with very fewer opportunities available comparitivly.  There are also way more applicants for fewer waterfowl opportunities, so the notion that the DNR opportunities provided correlates to the hunter numbers is again, hogwash.
> 
> They are cutting trees all over the state on public land.  Doesn't do much for quail in areas there aren't many quail, but it does provide opportunities for rabbits.      I get that small game hunters want more opportunities for small game hunting, but like everything else in life, if you are waiting on the government to provide them for you, you will be disappointed.
> 
> Things are controlled by supply and demand.  There is way more demand for deer, waterfowl, and turkey than there is for rabbit and quail.  It would make no sense for the DNR to pour a bunch of time and money into specifically managing habitat for small game (or even waterfowl) in "hopes' of bringing on more small game and waterfowl hunters.  In large part because the DNR can't create enough "public land" habitat to really make a difference in either case.  The DNR doesn't have the money and the state overall doesn't have the hunter numbers to justify it.



*"My statement was small game hunter numbers have nothing to do with the DNR still stands." *

Really?  The absolute worst thing DNR could have done and has done to small game hunting in recent years  is expand the deer season clear through January 12th of each year.

This single action has put the nail in the coffin for small game hunters who run dogs for either rabbits or coons.

i know this first hand as I run beagles. I cannot tell you how many people I know that are letting their packs thin out or getting out of it all together and say that its hard to justify keeping dogs to only be able to run them for 6 weeks.

This has impacted private property the most. Deer hunters dont want you running dogs on the club during deer season. Most public land stinks for rabbit hunting.

"Things are controlled by supply and demand.  There is way more demand for deer, waterfowl, and turkey than there is for rabbit and quail."    You fail to mention the auto insurance lobby......thats who controls our deer season.  Who are you kidding?

God knows what goes on with our state reps and the insurance industry but I assure you ...it aint clean and DNR isnt either.


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## Rulo (May 22, 2020)

across the river said:


> So what is it that you think the DNR can do that would increase the number of small game hunters?  I love to waterfowl hunt, but I have no expectation that the DNR should, or really can for that matter, do anything to substantially or dramatically increase waterfowl hunter numbers or waterfowl hunting opportunities.  People act the same way with waterfowl. You buy a state and federal stamp and donate $25 to DU, and all of a sudden there are supposed to be countless waterfowl opportunities available.  It doesn't work like that.



They need to stop catering to the auto insurance industry and knock off the 4 1/2 month long deer season.


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## Fletch_W (May 22, 2020)

Rulo said:


> They need to stop catering to the auto insurance industry and knock off the 4 1/2 month long deer season.



I'm confused. Can you educate me?


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## GSPEED (May 22, 2020)

across the river said:


> So what is it that you think the DNR can do that would increase the number of small game hunters?  I love to waterfowl hunt, but I have no expectation that the DNR should, or really can for that matter, do anything to substantially or dramatically increase waterfowl hunter numbers or waterfowl hunting opportunities.  People act the same way with waterfowl. You buy a state and federal stamp and donate $25 to DU, and all of a sudden there are supposed to be countless waterfowl opportunities available.  It doesn't work like that.


Probably the opposite of what they are doing now, which is nothing. North Georgia is the buthole of the state when it comes to hunting and not all because of habitat and predators. It says in the DNR deer management plan that state law charges the DNR with management and conservation of Georgia’s wildlife resources for present and future generations. I don’t have any expectations that they will do anything different than they are doing now. Don’t want countless opportunities just opportunities, which is few and far between here, and gets worse every year. But maybe I have unrealistic expectations of seeing game after buying a license and wasting my time going hunting and not seeing anything. Guess I remember how it was when it was called the Game and Fish Department and we had game. You remember them don’t you,they were the ones that stocked deer in Georgia for 50 years. Wonder what they would think of our hunting regulations that we have now.


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## Ruger#3 (May 22, 2020)

I lived in states that had Game and Fish Commissions not directed or funded by the legislature. Commissioners isolated from lobbyist, dedicated tax revenue streams to facilitate real management. WMAs were accessible year round to train dogs of all types when there wasn’t conflicting seasons. Gates weren’t slammed in your face closing day of deer season. Most WMAs were staffed with an on-site manager or nearby that was intiment with the grounds. The G & F developed habit that was targeted to small game. The cooperative efforts allowed dog clubs and small game hunters to assist with habitat development, matching funds project.

I’ve walked beagle packs for miles on some WMAs here without a hint of a rabbit trail. Predator control plus habitat just wouldn’t support them.

When you’ve see what could done its pretty discouraging


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## across the river (May 22, 2020)

Rulo said:


> *"My statement was small game hunter numbers have nothing to do with the DNR still stands." *
> 
> Really?  The absolute worst thing DNR could have done and has done to small game hunting in recent years  is expand the deer season clear through January 12th of each year.
> 
> ...




Of course it is supply and demand, and I said that in post you quoted.   There are far fewer people who give a rip about small game hunting than there are deer, waterfowl, or alligator.   However, that has nothing to do with the DNR.    There are fewer quota opportunities for alligator and waterfowl than quail, but there are ten times or more people appling for alligator and ducks than quail or rabbit. If demand was controlled by the opportunities provide by the DNR, then alligator would have the lowest number of quota applicants   What is it that you expect them to do that they aren't doing? 

 Why would people get dogs for rabbit, coon, quail, or anything else if they have no where to hunt them, and then fuss and moan because the government didn't provide top notch hunting opportunities for them.   If you want a place to rabbit hunt, get a group of guys together and lease you own land to hunt. Quit worrying about deer hunters.  That is what most deer hunters in the state do, so  get a group of guys together and lease or buy land just for small game hunting.   Then the deer season is irrelevant.   There are plenty of small game opportunities in Georgia on public land for people who are willing to travel and put in the work.   Then there are people who just want to fuss and complain.


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## GSPEED (May 22, 2020)

Ruger#3 said:


> I lived in states that had Game and Fish Commissions not directed or funded by the legislature. Commissioners isolated from lobbyist, dedicated tax revenue streams to facilitate real management. WMAs were accessible year round to train dogs of all types when there wasn’t conflicting seasons. Gates weren’t slammed in your face closing day of deer season. Most WMAs were staffed with an on-site manager or nearby that was intiment with the grounds. The G & F developed habit that was targeted to small game. The cooperative efforts allowed dog clubs and small game hunters to assist with habitat development, matching funds project.
> 
> I’ve walked beagle packs for miles on some WMAs here without a hint of a rabbit trail. Predator control plus habitat just wouldn’t support them.
> 
> When you’ve see what could done its pretty discouraging


Not sure how the Game and Fish was funded years ago but at one time WMA’s had managers on site and took care of them and surrounding areas, planted food plots, and took care of the roads. I knew or was kin to some of them and trust me they weren’t exactly fireballs, but food plots were planted,roads were good and there was game. Remember back in the late 70s we were standing around in a store and someone asked the Game Warden if they thought there would ever be doe days on Warwoman and he said that there would never be doe days on Warwoman. I was told that only the name changed when it went from the Game and Fish to the DNR but more than that changed as then they started closing WMAs, adding doe tags and days,intensional herd reduction,opened season through December and now to January 15th,baiting, and you kill deer with everything but rocks. Discouraging doesn’t quite say it for me.


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## Ruger#3 (May 23, 2020)

GSPEED said:


> Not sure how the Game and Fish was funded years ago but at one time WMA’s had managers on site and took care of them and surrounding areas, planted food plots, and took care of the roads. I knew or was kin to some of them and trust me they weren’t exactly fireballs, but food plots were planted,roads were good and there was game. Remember back in the late 70s we were standing around in a store and someone asked the Game Warden if they thought there would ever be doe days on Warwoman and he said that there would never be doe days on Warwoman. I was told that only the name changed when it went from the Game and Fish to the DNR but more than that changed as then they started closing WMAs, adding doe tags and days,intensional herd reduction,opened season through December and now to January 15th,baiting, and you kill deer with everything but rocks. Discouraging doesn’t quite say it for me.



The state I moved from has 1/8 of 1% of the sales tax directed by law to the G&F. Inside the G&F The funds are divided, 45% wildlife, 45% parks, the remainder for historic sites and cleanup funding.


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## Barebowyer (May 23, 2020)

Interesting thread.  I have seen a ton more rabbits this year than last and quite a few more wild quail.  I can tell you I have seen quite a bit of small game on my limited experiences on the WMAS in Georgia.  Most of it I was walking with bow in hand hog hunting or waterfowl hunting late season.  I know I see quite many rabbits in the headlights going in on my morning duck hunts on public land, quite many squirrels, and on one particular WMA, lots of woodcock.  I guess it depends where you go.  I am originally from VA and it does seem there is way more small game there.  The game here just seems way more cautious to me probably due to way higher predator numbers than I have ever seen in my lifetime. I'm 45 years old and have hunted about 9 different states.


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## Mark R (Jul 16, 2020)

lots of interesting comments . but I aint talking about in the back yard or the neighborhood or parks or roadside or private land that only gets deer huntin . public land . it aint from hunting pressure because aint many folks small game huntin anymore so I think they justed moved to town .


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## Triple C (Jul 21, 2020)

I'm covered up in rabbits.  Never seen more than this year.


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## Danuwoa (Jul 21, 2020)

Scads of them down here.  Lots of squirrels.  The rabbit population on our place has exploded.  I see a lot of them.  Chipmunks too.  And I’m hearing more quail this past year than I’ve heard since I was a kid.


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## mguthrie (Aug 2, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I have herds of rabbits around my house this year. And probably about 6-8 squirrels in the yard right now eating maple seeds.


I had a nest in my garden this year. Looks like 4 little ones made it. We’ve got a good number of them around the house but they’ve been sparse on my lease the last few years. At least when we are running beagles


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## Georgia Terrapin (Aug 5, 2020)

If you want deer, go rabbit or squirrel hunting.  If you want rabbit or squirrel, go deer hunting.  From my limited experience, they seem to know.


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