# Is NASCAR a sport or just entertainment??



## rockinwrangler (Mar 6, 2016)




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## Browning Slayer (Mar 6, 2016)

op2:op2:op2:


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 6, 2016)

Entertainment.


Very similar to WWE


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## glynr329 (Mar 6, 2016)

Go and work with the guys in the pit for one day. I promise you will call it a sport. That is if you could make it a whole day.


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## NE GA Pappy (Mar 6, 2016)

just because the guys in the pits work hard, doesn't mean it is not all scripted and put out there to entertain.

in the 70's thru the mid 2000's it was a sport.  I am not so sure now.


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## ClemsonRangers (Mar 6, 2016)

sport

looks like bobby jones expressway


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 6, 2016)

glynr329 said:


> Go and work with the guys in the pit for one day. I promise you will call it a sport. That is if you could make it a whole day.



Do you consider Mexicans picking watermelons athletes?


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 6, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Do you consider Mexicans picking watermelons athletes?



Or the ones that spread pinestraw. They keep up with the ropes and get paid by the ones they throw..


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 6, 2016)

ClemsonRangers said:


> sport
> 
> looks like bobby jones expressway



That would qualify the daily commuters on 285..


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## mattuga (Mar 6, 2016)

Hard to do or hard work does not equal sport, there is a reason we don't have a professional landscaping league competition.  Racing is entertainment.  When the quality of equipment is one of the main components to victory I cannot call it a sport.  Physical feats of strength and quality equate to sports.


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## HermanMerman (Mar 6, 2016)

If driving a car is considered a sport, then consider me Ted Williams.


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## KyDawg (Mar 6, 2016)

Nascar at one time was my favorite sport. Any manufacture could put a car out there with their team building it and as long as they were pretty close to the rules NASCAR let them run. They have now pretty much removed Brand identity, individuals having some leeway to come up with something new, characters like Maurice petty and Ray Fox and most anything else that was part of a sport we loved. Now it is a made for TV, corporate, cookie cutter car, lucky Dawg, ever changing championship rule, poor imitation of the sport it used to be. TV ratings were there lowest by far since Fox has televised it. I agree with the ones that say it is WWE. This comes from a person that watched the sport from the early Sixties and has been to every track in the south from Macon, to South Boston, to Atlanta to Talladega, that they have ever run on.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Mar 6, 2016)

All professional sports are just entertainment. 
What other purpose would they serve?


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Mar 6, 2016)

its a sport yet it has become unwatchable and boring


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## KyDawg (Mar 6, 2016)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> All professional sports are just entertainment.
> What other purpose would they serve?



Think the question is how far a sanctioning body goes to determine outcomes.


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## Patriot44 (Mar 6, 2016)

NASCAR became lame when the France family took it to Cali and became NICECAR.  NASCAR sucks, and has for quite some time.

France Jr. tried to take a southern sport national and he has failed miserably.  This is the equivalent of taking SEC football to Washington St.  Aint gonna happen.  

My grandfather has been in a "league" at our VFW for years.  I stopped by to see him today and he was ticked that he had never even heard of his driver he drew this week.


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## riprap (Mar 6, 2016)

Today was a good race. The new rule packages only benefit the teams that can overcome them, not make the field more equal. The Gibbs,penske Hendrick and 1/2 of hass are the only cars with a shot at winning.


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## riprap (Mar 6, 2016)

Patriot44 said:


> NASCAR became lame when the France family took it to Cali and became NICECAR.  NASCAR sucks, and has for quite some time.
> 
> France Jr. tried to take a southern sport national and he has failed miserably.  This is the equivalent of taking SEC football to Washington St.  Aint gonna happen.
> 
> My grandfather has been in a "league" at our VFW for years.  I stopped by to see him today and he was ticked that he had never even heard of his driver he drew this week.


It worked for a while. They turned their back on the south and filled up the tracks on the west. Now las Vegas track attendance looks like Atlanta.


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## Patriot44 (Mar 6, 2016)

riprap said:


> It worked for a while. They turned their back on the south and filled up the tracks on the west. Now las Vegas track attendance looks like Atlanta.



You're right, and now the roosters have come home to roost.


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## KyDawg (Mar 6, 2016)

riprap said:


> Today was a good race. The new rule packages only benefit the teams that can overcome them, not make the field more equal. The Gibbs,penske Hendrick and 1/2 of hass are the only cars with a shot at winning.



Unfortunately nobody watched it Rip. You used to go to a sports bar and at least 3 TV's would be on the race. We stopped by one this evening to eat and it was not on a one. Girls BB and soccer was on several though.


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## riprap (Mar 6, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Unfortunately nobody watched it Rip. You used to go to a sports bar and at least 3 TV's would be on the race. We stopped by one this evening to eat and it was not on a one. Girls BB and soccer was on several though.



Hey...I got them to change it at Johnny's pizza this evening from college basketball.


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## glynr329 (Mar 7, 2016)

If you put them on teams and let them pick as many as they can. Then load as many as you can.  Isn't that what all sports are about. 

Is a lot of things we call sports just competition. I guess people has thier own opinions about everything.

What does Mexicans picking watermelons or cutting grass have to do with the question asked? 

Sports an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 



SpotandStalk said:


> Do you consider Mexicans picking watermelons athletes?


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Unfortunately nobody watched it Rip. You used to go to a sports bar and at least 3 TV's would be on the race. We stopped by one this evening to eat and it was not on a one. Girls BB and soccer was on several though.





riprap said:


> Hey...I got them to change it at Johnny's pizza this evening from college basketball.



Couldn't tell ya the last time I went to a bar to watch a race. It's been years.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Mar 7, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Think the question is how far a sanctioning body goes to determine outcomes.



It doesn't matter. Once you acknowledge that at the Professional level it is no longer the sport you taught your child and for the reasons of teamwork, decision making, right and wrong, strong moral fabric and upright character, yet instead it is for how many millions a man can make and how much can they get you to pay to watch it, then it is merely entertainment. At this point it falls in the same category as the Bachelor or Dancing with Stars. If you don't like it, don't watch it.


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## nickel back (Mar 7, 2016)




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## rockinwrangler (Mar 7, 2016)

Hey guys,

I started the thread just to see what others thought about the sport that once was. I have been watching for at least 40 years.  I remember the days of coming home from church around 1pm to watch Wild World of Sports with Chris Economaki and Jackie Stewart.  Back in those days I was a David Pearson fan. Of course you had to enjoy watching The King, Cale Yarborough, the Allisons, ole DW, Buddy Baker, Tim Richmond, Neil Bonnett and the other greats battle with each other and the track.  Then one day, when that era was beginning to come to retire, I became a fan of a guy in a blue and yellow #2 which later became The Man in Black #3.  During those years, you could count on a heck of a battle between #3, Elliott, Bonnett, Labonte, Wallace, just to name a few .  

Then the day came when #3 was no more.   I have to admit, after that time, racing seemed to change for me.  Not sure why,  of course like many, I became a JR fan by proxy...  Even to this day in my opinion, there is no one that sticks out like those that have been mentioned here.  Sure you have a lot of wannabes, and maybe even some almosts, but who is there out there that stands out as THE MAN??  Maybe Johnson...  Earnhardt was the man, David Pearson was the man, Richard Petty was the man, Cale was the man, Bobby Allison was the man, Elliott was the man...  Now it is no longer about the man but more about the car, or the set up, or the track, or Nascar itself.  There are so many rules that you don't know who to root for,  the car, the track, or the man..  and in this day and time, the man has become NASCAR...  

I do appreciate all of the input from you guys and I hope it continues..  I have to agree with some here that it almost seems that NASCAR is the problem..  They are over thinking, over policing, and trying to choreograph the outcome of the race in order to sell tickets and Television time..  It would be like going to a NFL game where all the talent is on the field but there is no ball or maybe a NBA game with no goal on visitors  end...  Eventually you would say, "whats the point"..

I am not sure what all the answers are and I am sorry for the rant but, this is what I am thinkin,,,  LOL


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## Gold Ranger (Mar 7, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> just because the guys in the pits work hard, doesn't mean it is not all scripted and put out there to entertain.
> 
> in the 70's thru the mid 2000's it was a sport.  I am not so sure now.



Spend a year with a professional rassler.  Still not a sport.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Its a sport by defintion.  Period. And let me clue you on something.  ALL SPORTS ARE ENTERTAINMENT!    If you dont think it requires physical exertion and skill to drive a race car then you are clueless.    The drivers are every bit as much of or ever more so an athlete as Tiger Woods or anyone else that knocks that silly little white ball all over a course all day. 

Anyone that doesnt think so is just a hater or an idiot. 

Its big to talk from the comforts of your armchair but you sissies wouldnt last 5 laps in a race car at 195+ mph with +/- 40 others inches from you so dont even pretend like you would.  Stick to your stick and ball stuff.  Nascar is a sport.  All the rest is just a game


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## specialk (Mar 7, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> to South Boston, to Atlanta to Talladega, that they have ever run on.



I still go to south boston, Atlanta, and dega too!!


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## specialk (Mar 7, 2016)

buncha' pansies....


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> 1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
> 
> Its a sport by defintion.  Period. And let me clue you on something.  ALL SPORTS ARE ENTERTAINMENT!    If you dont think it requires physical exertion and skill to drive a race car then you are clueless.    The drivers are every bit as much of or ever more so an athlete as Tiger Woods or anyone else that knocks that silly little white ball all over a course all day.
> 
> ...




Got to go with the FSU dog here.

Saying Nascar is not a sport is silly. And anyone that says that is nuts and never rode or drove one of these cars. The drivers are athletes and their bodies endure a lot of stress.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

specialk said:


> buncha' pansies....



Or Dale Earnhardt driving Watkins Glen and finishing in the top 10 with a broken collar bone.

These melodramatic, pansy stick and ball players sit on the sideline for an ingrown toenail or jammed finger


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## Gold Ranger (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> Or Dale Earnhardt driving Watkins Glen and finishing in the top 10 with a broken collar bone.
> 
> These melodramatic, pansy stick and ball players sit on the sideline for an ingrown toenail or jammed finger



I'm not saying they are athletes.  I'm saying that today's NASCAR is more like WWE than it is Dale's NASCAR.


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 7, 2016)

glynr329 said:


> What does Mexicans picking watermelons or cutting grass have to do with the question asked?



About as much as how hard the people on pit road work. There are many jobs in which people work hard, that doesn't make it a sport.


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> Or Dale Earnhardt driving Watkins Glen and finishing in the top 10 with a broken collar bone.
> 
> These melodramatic, pansy stick and ball players sit on the sideline for an ingrown toenail or jammed finger



Ronnie Lott cut his finger OFF so he could play ball.

There have also been cases of playing with broken legs.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

Gold Ranger said:


> I'm saying that today's NASCAR is more like WWE than it is Dale's NASCAR.



That I agree with.


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## rockinwrangler (Mar 7, 2016)

I want to be clear..  It was never my intention by starting this thread as to whether a driver or his team were athletes..  99% are in tip top shape..  I know they train hard to do the job they do.. My question is more for the presentation of the sport.. 

I have to agree that all sports are for entertainment but, is all entertainment sports. ?? 

 In other words, Is the product that NASCAR is trying to present a sport or entertainment..??


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## KyDawg (Mar 7, 2016)

specialk said:


> I still go to south boston, Atlanta, and dega too!!



Did not know they were still racing there. We lived over that way back in the late sixties and it was a regular stop on what is now the Sprint Cup tour. Got to see several races there.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

rockinwrangler said:


> I want to be clear..  It was never my intention by starting this thread as to whether a driver or his team were athletes..  99% are in tip top shape..  I know they train hard to do the job they do.. My question is more for the presentation of the sport..
> 
> I have to agree that all sports are for entertainment but, is all entertainment sports. ??
> 
> In other words, Is the product that NASCAR is trying to present a sport or entertainment..??



The presentation of the sport, is the problem of Nascar. They took the sport and mainstreamed it too fast, politically corrected itself and leaned more liberal.  The original base of Nascar didn't want to see their sport go through the changes it has over the last 10 or so years, so that is why you are seeing what you see today in Nascar. Low attendance records, TV ratings and empty infields..


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

rockinwrangler said:


> I
> 
> In other words, Is the product that NASCAR is trying to present a sport or entertainment..??



In Brain Frances effort to want Nascar to be like a stick and ball sport, Im afraid he has turned it into entertainment ala WWE.      Nascar started dying on February 18, 2001.   The final nail in the coffin was 2003 when Bill Jr passed the torch on to Brian.    Then came the Chase, the idiotic Car of Tomorrow, trying to take Nascar to the west and all kinds of other idiotic changes that no one wanted.  They alienated much of their fanbase that got them to where they were. 

I only follow now just a little because of Jr.  When he hangs it up, which wont be too much longer IMO, I will never watch another minute of Nascar again.

I dont blame people here that use to be diehard fans that think Nascar sucks now.   I guess I just get tired of hearing it because its taken forever for me to admit it myself.

Unfortunately our daddys and granddaddy's Nascar is dead.   There will not be a resurrection


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> In Brain Frances effort to want Nascar to be like a stick and ball sport, Im afraid he has turned it into entertainment ala WWE.      Nascar started dying on February 18, 2001.   The final nail in the coffin was 2003 when Bill Jr passed the torch on to Brian.    Then came the Chase, the idiotic Car of Tomorrow, trying to take Nascar to the west and all kinds of other idiotic changes that no one wanted.
> 
> I only follow now just a little because of Jr.  When he hangs it up, which wont be too much longer IMO, I will never watch another minute of Nascar again.



I'll agree twice with you, and in the same thread!!

And no lie, my last Nascar race was at Bristol (1st Car of Tomorrow Race).. Sad day, it was..


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## specialk (Mar 7, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Did not know they were still racing there. We lived over that way back in the late sixties and it was a regular stop on what is now the Sprint Cup tour. Got to see several races there.




http://www.southbostonspeedway.com/index.htm

I grew up 15 miles south of there and still have deep roots leading back.....I have 4-5 cousins that have been season ticket holders for 30 plus years.....when I visit home I'm usually going here and yonder visiting kin folk, I will slip off to a race there if possible....


I'm going to Richmond next month for the first time(I know, backyard all my life but never been).....I'm planning on going to Bristol next year for the first time.......after that I want to go to some short tracks.....you've probably been to these but they are on my bucket list:

hickory
myrtle beach
bowman grey
and Senoia(GA)......


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

Browning Slayer said:


> I'll agree twice with you, and in the same thread!!
> 
> .



Man, the world must be about to end


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## Scott G (Mar 7, 2016)

If you can be a legit contender with a pot belly it is not a sport. I put golf in this category too.


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## KyDawg (Mar 7, 2016)

specialk said:


> http://www.southbostonspeedway.com/index.htm
> 
> I grew up 15 miles south of there and still have deep roots leading back.....I have 4-5 cousins that have been season ticket holders for 30 plus years.....when I visit home I'm usually going here and yonder visiting kin folk, I will slip off to a race there if possible....
> 
> ...



Been to hickory, but I would like to one Race at the Stadium.


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## skeeter24 (Mar 7, 2016)

rockinwrangler said:


> Even to this day in my opinion, there is no one that sticks out like those that have been mentioned here.  Sure you have a lot of wannabes, and maybe even some almosts, but who is there out there that stands out as THE MAN??  Maybe Johnson...  Earnhardt was the man, David Pearson was the man, Richard Petty was the man, Cale was the man, Bobby Allison was the man, Elliott was the man...



Jeff Gordon was the man.....Jimmie Johnson is the man.....Kyle Busch is the man.  We will soon be saying that Chase Elliot is the man and Erik Jones is the man.  What is your point?  Just because these are not the guys that you pull for doesn't mean they aren't the man.  Compare what Gordon, Johnson, Busch have done vs. those that you mention and I would say it is pretty close.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

Scott G said:


> If you can be a legit contender with a pot belly it is not a sport. I put golf in this category too.



Really?    Who in Nascar has a pot belly this big?  

dumbest.post.ever


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## rockinwrangler (Mar 7, 2016)

skeeter24 said:


> Jeff Gordon was the man.....Jimmie Johnson is the man.....Kyle Busch is the man.  We will soon be saying that Chase Elliot is the man and Erik Jones is the man.  What is your point?  Just because these are not the guys that you pull for doesn't mean they aren't the man.  Compare what Gordon, Johnson, Busch have done vs. those that you mention and I would say it is pretty close.



I agree Gordon was the man.  He actually is the bridge from old school to this new school stuff we have today..  I even agree that Kyle Busch is the man by today standards.  Not sure Chase will be the man..  He has a great last name and he has the opportunity but as we have seen with the Dillion brothers, last name sometimes don't make the cut.. Like the Jarretts and Wallaces, Labontes, Petty's and the many 2nd and 3rd generation drivers before. Some were good drivers but nothing special. 

All I am saying is the true battle is no longer with the driver/athlete. The battle is now between the car, handling, track, rules, etc...


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## Scott G (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> Really?    Who in Nascar has a pot belly this big?
> 
> dumbest.post.ever



Great post! How many drivers can bench 300+ with their pot bellies?

Dumbest. Comparison. Ever.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

Scott G said:


> Great post! How many drivers can bench 300+ with their pot bellies?
> 
> Dumbest. Comparison. Ever.



No its actually not a dumb comparison.   First of all, you dont have a clue what those guys can bench.    To pretend to only makes you look like a bigger fool.   Besides,  Benching?   REALLY?   I didnt realize how much someone can bench press is a measure of their athleticism or the be all end all of whether something is a sport or not LOL!    Bench pressing has nothing to do with anything.  This aint a  weighlifting contest we are talking about so please try to remain on topic and answer the question.  You made a very ignorant statement about pot bellys and I showed you were you were wrong.     Most Nascar drivers likely cant bench 300# no more than those fat boys can squeeze into a 120+ degree race car and drive for 4 hours.   Whats your point?  

Just go ahead and admit you are clueless.  You really are burying yourself.  Stick to politics or something else you pretend to know something about.  You are lost here.


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 7, 2016)

Nascar and Lingerie football have alot in common. Pure entertainment.


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## Matthew6 (Mar 7, 2016)

im going with nascar as entertainment. never been to a race. Im gonna go with my redneck friends one of these days. gotta grow a beard first and wear the same clothes for a week so i fit in properly.


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## chocolate dog (Mar 7, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Nascar and Lingerie football have alot in common. Pure entertainment.
> 
> View attachment 868519
> 
> ...



Like I said, haters and idiots.  Which one are you?   I will go with the latter for 1000 Alex


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## KyDawg (Mar 7, 2016)

Try to discuss this without the name calling.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Try to discuss this without the name calling.



I was wondering when Scott G's comments about drivers having "pot bellies" was going to be caught..


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 7, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> Like I said, haters and idiots.  Which one are you?   I will go with the latter for 1000 Alex



Is it not true?

I'd like to see Danica playing a sport. Heck even Dale Jr for that matter.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 7, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> I'd like to see Danica playing a sport.



Me too... Mud Wrasslin...


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## SpotandStalk (Mar 7, 2016)

Browning Slayer said:


> Me too... Mud Wrasslin...



Dale????


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## Scott G (Mar 7, 2016)

Comparing fluffy car drivers to beasts who could ragdoll you for looking at them funny, THAT is the dumbest post ever. Get a clue Chocolatestarfishdog.


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## Paymaster (Mar 7, 2016)

NASCAR is a sport. There it is settled. That is all.


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## Matthew6 (Mar 7, 2016)

cooking competitions are sports too.


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## Barry Duggan (Mar 9, 2016)

These days, the driver who has worked his tail off and should win, often loses due to a few well timed caution flags at the end of the race. You know the flag is coming...just makes you wonder who is the designated caution this time.


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## riprap (Mar 9, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> No its actually not a dumb comparison.   First of all, you dont have a clue what those guys can bench.    To pretend to only makes you look like a bigger fool.   Besides,  Benching?   REALLY?   I didnt realize how much someone can bench press is a measure of their athleticism or the be all end all of whether something is a sport or not LOL!    Bench pressing has nothing to do with anything.  This aint a  weighlifting contest we are talking about so please try to remain on topic and answer the question.  You made a very ignorant statement about pot bellys and I showed you were you were wrong.     Most Nascar drivers likely cant bench 300# no more than those fat boys can squeeze into a 120+ degree race car and drive for 4 hours.   Whats your point?
> 
> Just go ahead and admit you are clueless.  You really are burying yourself.  Stick to politics or something else you pretend to know something about.  You are lost here.



Come on, you know Peyton Manning, Babe Ruth and Larry Bird could bench press way over 100lbs.


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## riprap (Mar 9, 2016)

Barry Duggan said:


> These days, the driver who has worked his tail off and should win, often loses due to a few well timed caution flags at the end of the race. You know the flag is coming...just makes you wonder who is the designated caution this time.



The guy who has ran all day in the back suddenly spins out with 10 to go. How about those dangerous water bottles? When did a man getting loose and spinning out require a caution when he is already half way back up to speed. 

Nascar is somewhat boring. Always has been. Nascar has tried to make it something it is not. They try to make great finishes every week, when great finishes use to happen a handful of times a year. That never stopped fans from coming. They do whatever they can to drive that ticket price up. They think making social media/interactive junk at the track will make it better.

In todays Nascar, unless they have had one of their stupid penalties during the week, you can pick out the top five cars in the first 50 laps. Then you can skip to the end when they throw the caution to see which driver has the fastest pit crew and who can get the best re start.


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## groundhawg (Mar 9, 2016)

Neither one, just lots of noise, and left hand turns.


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## snuffy (Mar 9, 2016)

Ernest Hemingway said there were only 3 sports BULLFIGHTING, MOTOR RACING and MOUNTAINEERING. The rest were merely games.


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## Lukikus2 (Mar 9, 2016)

snuffy said:


> Ernest Hemingway said there were only 3 sports BULLFIGHTING, MOTOR RACING and MOUNTAINEERING. The rest were merely games.



Hemingway probably never thought a frachise would ever put plates on the motors either. 

Play with the aero all you want but let the drivers and engine builders loose and let them win it fair and square.


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## snuffy (Mar 10, 2016)

Lukikus2 said:


> Hemingway probably never thought a frachise would ever put plates on the motors either.
> 
> Play with the aero all you want but let the drivers and engine builders loose and let them win it fair and square.



This is true!


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## Miguel Cervantes (Mar 10, 2016)

Barry Duggan said:


> These days, the driver who has worked his tail off and should win, often loses due to a few well timed caution flags at the end of the race. You know the flag is coming...just makes you wonder who is the designated caution this time.



In the world of motor sports that is a vague blanket statement. Back in the day the driver that worked his tail off also worked on his car a lot, as well as drove it. Now days the driver is pretty much hands off while the corporate crew does all of the important work. Today's race team resembles nothing of what it did 20 years ago. 

But then, that is the corporate world of entertainment.


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## bigdaddyga (Mar 10, 2016)

Neither?


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2016)

Only a redneck drives a car 500 miles in a circle just to get out right where he started.


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## Ruger#3 (Apr 3, 2016)

A visit to Concord will show you this is a big money business. A few teams share the real money and the only chance of winning. It's as staged as any theatrical event.

In sport the players share the same fundamental abilities. That can't happen in NASCAR these days. The folks in the back are there to add color to the "big one" and provide the image of a race.


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## KyDawg (Apr 3, 2016)

Nascar has always had also rans at the back. Back in the day you would see one win every once in a while. Such as, Derrick Cope, Lennie Pond, Richard Brickhouse, James Hylton, Ron Bouchard and Bobby Hillin Jr. Lot of these were at Talladega but they did win.


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