# Property line issue with fence



## BBDJR (Sep 24, 2010)

Ill try and make this quick...
I bought my house in April of 2009. It was originally built in 2000. It is on 6 acres and I have a horse fence that surrounds the entire border of my property or so i thought.  Well my neighbor gets his land surveyed a few months ago and says that about 100' in length of my fence is on his property but only by a few inches. (We are talking a slither here) not that that matters but it is so minimal.  We havent had the property surveyed ourselves as the bank had it done already and we bought this house as a foreclosure.  Well he wants us to move the fence or one of us can buy the others TINY piece of property to settle this and he is not letting up.. He isnt moving or anything he says and we sure arent going anywhere either but he wants it settled now.  Im just trying to avoid spending the money to get another survey and buy his slither and deal with all of that and i sure dont want to move the fence. (i got better things to do with my weekend and dont really have the time)  

My question is what are the laws regarding my fence being where it has been for 10 years although i have only lived there for a year and a half. I know nothing about this issue but have thought i heard once something is in place for a certain amount of time without being spoke of it becomes your property....i could be WAY off base here but am just looking to get some clarification.

A side note...this guy has made 2 other people around him cut out sections of their driveways that came onto his property by a few feet.  and we arent talking like these things are in his way by any means. these are all 5+ acre tracts.  We can't even see each others houses. I thought he was a nice guy and might be but he is starting to get on my nerves...


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## bat (Sep 24, 2010)

This will be interesting to find out.  I brought my place in '89 and had it surveyed before buying it.. There is an old fence running along the boundary where they surveyed the property.  Then about 5+ years later the landowner next to me had a survey done on his 300+ acres.  They had little flags stuck up about 30 feet or so out into my property from the old fence line.  I just pulled them up and tossed them out into the woods.   Problem solved, haven't had a problem with this family at all.  If it does come back up I will just resurvey if needed.

edit: makes you wonder if the surveyors know what they are doing sometimes or they are just making the money and running with it.


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## sinclair1 (Sep 24, 2010)

I would move it, I had a survey done in a similar situation and he would only believe the one he had done that did not zero in on the area and was in his favor. Once they prove they are a jerk its best not to make any deals with them.

I would look into the years its been there though as my dad went though that years ago and the fence stayed due to some time limit....that was in colorado though. My dad finally made a deal, that if he sold the place, he would move the fence before putting it on the market. that seemed to make the guy happy as he would not lose the piece of property forever.

Good luck ....sounds like a jerk over a few inches on a lot that size.


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## bnew17 (Sep 24, 2010)

i hate it for you man, to have a neighbor like that... i hope you get it resolved without it being too much of a hassle for you. its a shame you have to put up with that.


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## Todd E (Sep 24, 2010)

I cannot answer your question within the scope of it.

I can, however, give you my experience with the same situation. Landowner to the rear of my place had his surveyed in order to put up a new fence. Surveyor showed up at my door and told my wife that the corner of my fence was over the line and that I needed to move it inside the proper flagged property line. The owner(I feel properly justified) also sent word through him to make sure I followed through. I promptly began work on it(even in the dark with lights) and got it moved. No lost weekend time and no more issues with the owner. No need to sweat the seemingly small stuff. 

I hate it you came into the situation like you did. The builder of my home actually made the yard over onto his property. Me, with no visible corner marker, thought it was my yard. Another lesson learned in life. It is my personal feeling that I, as an individual, need to do the right thing even though it may cost time/money. You may not see a visible response from him, but there may come a time in life where he remembers you "doing the right thing" regardless of "time" encroachment.


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## vol man (Sep 24, 2010)

I am a GA Registered Land Surveyor

10 Years is not enough to make a claim of adverse possession with no color of title.

You have 4 choices.  
1) Trust his survey and move the fence.
2) Get your land surveyed and see if his survey is correct ~ it may be and then you are still in the same boat.
3) Buy or sale to swap the land.  You will still have to pay a surveyor to draw up the deeds.
4) Refuse to take any action and be at his mercy.  He can legally remove the portion of your fence that is on his property.

I would move the fence and be done with it.

I would also suggest you get a survey next time before entering into a real estate transaction.  If you would have known about the fence issue ahead of time you may have been able to negotiate to have the bank move the fence or reduce the sales price enough to cover it.

Good luck!


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## CAL (Sep 24, 2010)

I would go back to the bank I bought it from and see if they will accept the liability of being wrong since they had it surveyed originally.Somebody is wrong,either the bank or the neighbor.Small as it may be,time to get it corrected as I see it!If the bank is wrong in the original survey they sold the property by,they need to satisfy the situation .You as the owner purchased a suppose correct survey.Keep us updated.


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## vol man (Sep 24, 2010)

bat said:


> This will be interesting to find out.  I brought my place in '89 and had it surveyed before buying it.. There is an old fence running along the boundary where they surveyed the property.  Then about 5+ years later the landowner next to me had a survey done on his 300+ acres.  They had little flags stuck up about 30 feet or so out into my property from the old fence line.  I just pulled them up and tossed them out into the woods.   Problem solved, haven't had a problem with this family at all.  If it does come back up I will just resurvey if needed.
> 
> edit: makes you wonder if the surveyors know what they are doing sometimes or they are just making the money and running with it.



For what it is worth - you probably pulled up the surveyors traverse point.  Normally a 60d nail or the like.  These are points we set to locate the boundary from, they are not the boundary points and have nothing to do with the property lines or corners.  They are only intermediate points to measure angles and distances from.  Also - Licensed Surveyors are licensed by the state and regulated in the same way as doctors, attorneys, electricians, etc.  There are education and apprenticeship requirements to get a license as well as 20 hours of exams.  GA has some of the toughest requirements in the country for surveyors.  Most have a very good idea of what they doing.


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## tjl1388 (Sep 24, 2010)

vol man said:


> There are education and apprenticeship requirements to get a license as well as 20 hours of exams.  GA has some of the toughest requirements in the country for surveyors.  Most have a very good idea of what they doing.



AMEN Brother!!!  When I moved to Ga. in 2000 I broke into the engineering field as a instrument operator and it was amazing and hard work.

Ga. RLS's are some of the best in the nation.


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## Ballplayer (Sep 24, 2010)

GA has some of the toughest requirements in the country for surveyors.  Most have a very good idea of what they doing.[/QUOTE]

 Why then are so many surveyors making mistakes ? this is a common occurence in Ga.


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 24, 2010)

I'll play the devil's advocate here. 

If I was the other property owner, I would want you to move the fence as well.  I would try not to be a jerk about it. But it is a legitimate concern and you made it in your post.

You wanted to know about adverse possession or prescriptive easement.  Meaning you are willing to take that sliver of land from the owner to protect your own interest.

In the future that fence could be seen as a cloud on the title to the land of the other landowner.  Something he has a legitimate right to prevent.  It wasn't his mistake. 

If a survey says it is not your land so move the fence.  That will be cheaper than pursuing a legal recourse. If you feel the survey is wrong, a resurvey could just as easily adversely affect you more.

If you are planning on living there along time, now would be a good time to "mend fences" and become neighborly neighbors.


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## JustUs4All (Sep 24, 2010)

If you do not use the fence, do nothing.  The fence that is on his property belongs to him.  You did not install it, it is not your problem, it is not on the land you purchased.  He can take it down or leave it up as he wishes.

If you do use the fence, leave his fence alone and install a new fence section on your land.


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## vol man (Sep 24, 2010)

Ballplayer said:


> Why then are so many surveyors making mistakes ? this is a common occurence in Ga.




That is a vague statement.  What are you talking about specifically?  

Speaking of mistakes... "occurrence" is the proper spelling.


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## dbodkin (Sep 24, 2010)

Trust me... move the fence is the easiest solution


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## olcowman (Sep 25, 2010)

I had a neighbor several years ago moved next to me in the mountains from Florida. He initially started in with the folks on the other side about the proximity of a new barn to a property line. This was a very rural east tennessee county and everyone tried to get along back then. The newcomer was the first of the yankees from florida and kind of caught us all unexpected. Well he had his land re-surveyed and not only found that the barn was about 5 feet to close to the property line, but also I had about 300 foot of pretty new locust post and barbed wire fence on his property too (anywhere from 3 to 5 feet over too far for a stretch where i had simply replaced a fence that had been for 50+ years). He had already took the other guy to court so while he was tearing down his barn I was moving fence. I learned something that year, that the're just ain't much worse than living next door to one of the types of intolerable neighbors. If a hog or dog got loose over on his property he would call raising all kinds of cain going to shoot it and we were going to pay for all the damage. I burnt some leaves in a ditch in front of my house and he call the fire dept and the sheriff! He intimidated my wife to the point of tears one day and I was having a hard time not going redneck on him already when it hit the fan one ocyober morning. I was cutting up a blown down oak tree for firewood at the property line right up next to the road. The previous owner had put up a real nice 6 foot privacy fence up there to hide an old dilapadated house trailer that used to sit out front of our old farmhouse for the previous owner's hired hand to live in. Florida yankee had added to it, painted both sides and had a whole mound of little bushes and flowers and such up all around it.

To make a long story short. As I was sawing I lookled around and there he stood at the end of the privacy fence shaking his finger at me and yelling. I didn't even get exactly what he was mad about this time and threw the saw down and made a move toward him. I did catch myself and stood there halfway from my saw to the fence just trying to get a grip on exactly what I was going to do and I sort of kicked at the ground in frustration when my toe hit something solid. Guess what it was? I didn't pay any attention to what was going on in the front with the surveying as I was too concerned with my back fence and equipment shed. Ol' yank had got one over on me he thought, and he almost did. That was one of the most enjoyable days of my life right there. Once I found the next couple of pins and was sure where the problem started, I brought out the big chain saw and my wheeled loader and commenced to taking what was mine. What a day, and it took the fire out of him especially once he seen they wasn't a thing he do about no matter who he called. I didn't even hardly see him out of the house much after that and they eventually sold out and i reckon went back to Fla.


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 25, 2010)

vol man said:


> For what it is worth - you probably pulled up the surveyors traverse point.  Normally a 60d nail or the like.  These are points we set to locate the boundary from, they are not the boundary points and have nothing to do with the property lines or corners.  They are only intermediate points to measure angles and distances from.  Also - Licensed Surveyors are licensed by the state and regulated in the same way as doctors, attorneys, electricians, etc.  There are education and apprenticeship requirements to get a license as well as 20 hours of exams.  GA has some of the toughest requirements in the country for surveyors.  Most have a very good idea of what they doing.





vol man said:


> That is a vague statement.  What are you talking about specifically?
> 
> Speaking of mistakes... "occurrence" is the proper spelling.



But the actual surveyor does not do all the work.  They send crews, trained -- yes, but not the actual tested and licensed surveyor out to do much of the work.

Secondly, as an example, I have had the same piece of land surveyed twice.  Once when my BIL and I bought it together and once when we separated it for tax purposes.  One of the corners was about three feet different by the two companies.  And several other markers had variance also but not by that amount.  So which to believe?  It did not matter to either of us but it makes you wonder.


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## LEON MANLEY (Sep 25, 2010)

Get your taxes done buy 3 or 4 CPAs and see what the difference is.

I would tell him to do what ever makes him feel good, remember that you will be neighbors for quite some time whether good neighbors or bad neighbors.

 I really don't care if I have bad neighbors or not. If people act like fools then I treat them like fools.

My neighbors fence runs over on my property, but we both know where the line is so it's not an issue.

Some people are just too anal for their own good.

I might not be much of a friend, but I will make an your worst enemy when provoked.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 25, 2010)

You neighbor isn't playing, I would get that particular property line surveyed and make the changes. He could make life expensive and a pain in the rear down the road if he so chooses.


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 25, 2010)

Okay I have to ask.  If two different surveys show a different property line, what course of action to determine the 'real' line does the op have?


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## LEON MANLEY (Sep 25, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> You neighbor isn't playing, I would get that particular property line surveyed and make the changes. He could make life expensive and a pain in the rear down the road if he so chooses.



Sounds like this fellow is already a pain in the rear.

What's he going to do charge him rent?

Tell the bad neighbor that he got a bonus when he purchased his property and it came with a fence between you and him but they built it a little over on his side to make sure that they did not encroach upon your property.

Let him have the fence that is over the line, it was already there when he bought the property.

It's not like the bad neighbor is going to take him to court and get some big settlement.

If BBDJR  doesn't agree then he should have it surveyed.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 25, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> Sounds like this fellow is already a pain in the rear.
> 
> What's he going to do charge him rent?
> .



Boundary disputes are nothing to play with if one party is serious about the challenge and you are not. The cheapest route, if you are sure about your survey vs. his, is to comply. If you feel he or his survey is in error then go ahead and empty out your savings and prepare for a fight. Personally, I'd move the fence a couple of feet.

http://answers.uslegal.com/real-property/encroachment/16681/


"In the case of an encroachment, a plaintiff may be awarded the fair  value of the property.  Typically, the court will determine value of  property based upon expert evidence as to the value of comparable  property in the location. In order to award punitive damages for an  encroachment, courts have held that the plaintiff needs to prove the  defendant acted with recklessness that shows a conscious disregard of  property rights. Punitive damages are designed to deter conduct that was  based on wrongful intent, usually requiring some proof of fraud,  malice, oppression, or other wrongful and intentional motives."


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## LEON MANLEY (Sep 25, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Boundary disputes are nothing to play with if one party is serious about the challenge and you are not. The cheapest route, if you are sure about your survey vs. his, is to comply. If you feel he or his survey is in error then go ahead and empty out your savings and prepare for a fight. Personally, I'd move the fence a couple of feet.
> 
> http://answers.uslegal.com/real-property/encroachment/16681/
> 
> ...



I don't see how BBDJR can be held accountable due to the fence being over the property line before he purchased the property.

BBDJR did not put the fence there.

BBDJR got screwed because he didn't get as much fence as he thought he was getting .

His a-hole neighbor got a better deal because he got some fence that he didn't have to pay for.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 25, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> I don't see how BBDJR can be held accountable due to the fence being over the property line before he purchased the property.
> 
> BBDJR did not put the fence there.
> 
> ...



Ever heard of title insurance? Ever heard of assumed liability up on purchase? It is the purchasers legal duty to make sure all legal parameters are in order prior to purchase, including absence of liens as well as insuring that boundaries are in place according to the legal description filed with the county of title. A mortgage location survey is not necessarily the best argument to fall back on, it is merely in place to satisfy the mortgage companies security. It does not address discrepancies in placement of structures that would have been revealed by an ALTA survey. Mortgage companies used to require ALTA surveys, but most of them no longer do that.

The burden of compliance is upon the purchaser, not the seller or his neighbors.


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## LEON MANLEY (Sep 25, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Ever heard of title insurance? Ever heard of assumed liability up on purchase? It is the purchasers legal duty to make sure all legal parameters are in order prior to purchase, including absence of liens as well as insuring that boundaries are in place according to the legal description filed with the county of title. A mortgage location survey is not necessarily the best argument to fall back on, it is merely in place to satisfy the mortgage companies security. It does not address discrepancies in placement of structures that would have been revealed by an ALTA survey. Mortgage companies used to require ALTA surveys, but most of them no longer do that.
> 
> The burden of compliance is upon the purchaser, not the seller or his neighbors.



Who says the surveyors were correct when it was surveyed this last time.

BBDJR can give up the fence with out any expense.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 25, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> Who says the surveyors were correct when it was surveyed this last time.
> 
> BBDJR can give up the fence with out any expense.



No one has said they were correct, thus my statement in an earlier post. He can merely ignore the issue, whereas his neighbor has every legal right to remove the section of fence encroaching on his property. If BBDJR had livestock or animals dependent on the fence then he would be in quite a mess now wouldn't he?

Regardless, it is still BBDJR's issue to deal with. The challenge has been issued by the neighbor and BBDJR can ignore it or deal with it. Also, if the neighbor wishes to hire a contractor to remove the section of fence then BBDJR can be held liable for those fees should he choose not to address the boundary dispute.

Like I said, he should have the boundary surveyed or he should move the fence. Those are really his only two sound choices.


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## sleepr71 (Sep 25, 2010)

Why is the up-tight neighbor raising a ruccus now about this. Why didn't he address this when the previous owners were putting the fence up. Is he banking on the new owners being ignorant about the prop. line & being able to have his way? Sounds like it to me Old fence lines/creekbeds have been accepted as "the line" between families for generations.. sorry you've  just got a bad neighor.  I would have THAT line re-surveyed & move the fence if in the wrong.  From here on out...I would harrow up a "garden" near his house & put a propane cannon  in it on a timer. 24 hrs. a day of that & he will get the message. Sleepr71


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 25, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> .


I would like to see documentation surrounding that case. Cemetery's are federally governed and not even their fences can be messed with. My guess is this is where the issue was concentrated, not the livestock.

But, regardless of what I say, your opinion seems to be more "Manley", so I'll digress and leave you to your own little world and hope that BBDJR doesn't consider it wise to accept your counsel.


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## SneekEE (Sep 25, 2010)

Well, if he had put a fence on your land and you didnt want it there, what would you have him do? If you want the fence, i would move it. If it is his land he has the right to not allow a fence on it.In my opinion, it would be better to have a  neighbor you can get along with than to have a fence and a angry neighbor.

Now if you prove the land is yours then bu all means enjoy your fence.


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## Kawaliga (Sep 25, 2010)

*Property Line Issue With Fence*



gobbleinwoods said:


> Okay I have to ask.  If two different surveys show a different property line, what course of action to determine the 'real' line does the op have?



My wife inherited a farm in Schley county from her mother. My wifes first cousin owned the ajoining land on the west side. A survey was done of my wife's property, and the cousin didn't agree on the line. After many sessions with a lawyer, it seems that a special master would be appointed by the court, and would determine the disposition of the dispute. Both parties would probably spend upwards of $10,000 to settle over 12 acres of land with no guarantee of victory. Bottom line is, if you think you are right, get your checkbook out.


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## LEON MANLEY (Sep 25, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I would like to see documentation surrounding that case. Cemetery's are federally governed and not even their fences can be messed with. My guess is this is where the issue was concentrated, not the livestock.
> 
> But, regardless of what I say, your opinion seems to be more "Manley", so I'll digress and leave you to your own little world and hope that BBDJR doesn't consider it wise to accept your counsel.



There ain't no Federally governed fence around this cemetery and folk in a farming community frown pretty heavy on fence cutting.
Actually their is a law pertaining to not letting your livestock graze a cemetery.

Those are just options other than just rolling over and getting in the fetal position and taking whatever this neighbor has to offer.


Here is the real question why was everybody else's property lines wrong except the guy?


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 25, 2010)

This thread has gone past answering the OPs questions.


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