# Blackhorn 209 powder



## pcsolutions1 (Jul 31, 2008)

I know I've mentioned this before:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_breakthrough.htm

This powder is now available at Bass Pro.  I picked up a bottle today and can't wait to try it out.

Tom


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## WTM45 (Jul 31, 2008)

You will be impressed.
I have given away everything else.  Nothing comes close!


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## WTM45 (Aug 1, 2008)

Tips for shooting BH209:

Use a 209 primer, not a muzzleloading 209 primer like the T7 or the Remingtons.  CCI 209's, CCI 209M, Federal 209A, etc.
This powder likes HOT fire!

Use a snug fitting sabot and bullet combo.  This powder likes pressure to build similiar to a progressive burning powder.  Some conicals will work fine, if they fit your rifle bore tightly.

This powder works ONLY IN INLINES!  No sidelocks!

It will work very well with Knight FPJ's and a tight fitting sabot.


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## pcsolutions1 (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the tips


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## Doyle (Aug 4, 2008)

According to their website, you also have to have a breechplug that completely contains the primer.  Many rifles have a breechplug that has a screw slot bisecting the primer hole.


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## SmokyMtnSmoke (Aug 4, 2008)

Doyle said:


> According to their website, you also have to have a breechplug that completely contains the primer.  Many rifles have a breechplug that has *a screw slot bisecting the primer hole*.



That's what my CVA Hunterbolt has 

It sure does make a mess with all that extra primer blowing into the bolt area. That is one of the reasons I purchased the VariFlame Primer Adapters. I will be testing them next weekend I hope. 

WTM45, hows the cleanup compare to T7? 

http://www.blackhorn209.com/home/


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## WTM45 (Aug 4, 2008)

SmokyMtnSmoke said:


> WTM45, hows the cleanup compare to T7?
> 
> http://www.blackhorn209.com/home/



Simple.  Hoppes #9.  Breech plug comes out easy, no muss no fuss.


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## pcsolutions1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Glad to hear that.  My omega should love it.  Accuracy was always great with 777, but the cleanup is a pain.


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## WTM45 (Aug 7, 2008)

It's not the cheapest powder out there....
but when compared to T7 pellets it is very competetive in price.

IMO, the benefits greatly outweigh the little extra expense.
BPS and Cabelas has this powder on the shelf now, so you do not have to pay Hazmat+shipping from a mail order house/internet.


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## JohnK3 (Aug 7, 2008)

Anybody know a source for it in the Atlanta area?


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## WTM45 (Aug 7, 2008)

John, I've heard Bass Pro Shops carries it, maybe someone could check out the Duluth, GA store for us!


EDIT to add.....pcsolutions picked up a bottle at BPS!  It's in his first post!


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## JohnK3 (Aug 7, 2008)

I'll likely be up there tomorrow to register for the bow cam drawing.  I'll see if they have it then and report.


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## WTM45 (Aug 7, 2008)

Heck, I just went back to the top, and the original poster, pcsolutions1, stated he just picked up some at Bass Pro!

I should read for comprehension, huh?


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## JohnK3 (Aug 7, 2008)

You and me, both!


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## WTM45 (Aug 7, 2008)

Well, John, just so we feel a little better, pcsolutions1 did not specify if it was the Duluth store or the Macon store that had BH209.  So, we're not totally losing our minds!


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## JohnK3 (Aug 7, 2008)

WTM45 said:


> Well, John, just so we feel a little better, pcsolutions1 did not specify if it was the Duluth store or the Macon store that had BH209.  So, we're not totally losing our minds!


Speak for yourself!  I've been looking for mine all over the house for the past half hour.  I know I put it down somewhere...


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## JohnK3 (Aug 9, 2008)

Okay, the Duluth store carries it.  They had *4* bottles.  Fellow behind the gun counter said they don't sell much.  Well, when they don't put *any* displays out to push the product, it's not gonna do as well as all the Hogdgon stuff they're pushin'.

Also, was $35/bottle, which is $5 higher than MidwayUSA.  Of course, that's without paying a shipping/HAZMAT fee, but still....I wonder if someone else has it in town for a decent price?


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## WTM45 (Aug 9, 2008)

$35 is better than Cabelas, which is $37.99.
I ordered from Midway, more than a few bottles so the cost was spread out.

Look at it this way......it is very competitive with the cost of T7 pellets.  Not having to swab between shots, and no real cleanup required makes it very worthwhile!

Word of mouth is gonna push this powder.  It is THAT GOOD!

Remember, it has only been on retail shelves for about a month!


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## tv_racin_fan (Aug 10, 2008)

Cept it wont work in the ole flintlock eh??

I can't imagine shootin a smokepole without the smoke and smell and I never had an issue with cleanup except for people lookin at me funny when I tell em I cleaned my revolver in the kitchen sink or my rifle in the bathtub or shower.If you're gonna complain about the mess why not get the Savage and just shoot smokeless powder? 

http://www.savagearms.com/10mlbssii.htm

Or one of these:

http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/index.php?page=c-series

Alas I'd much rather shoot something like this:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5g...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAF-634

I actually prefer a half stock version myself BUT I'd make do with a full stock.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5g...catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAF-634


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## WTM45 (Aug 10, 2008)

Some states do not allow smokeless muzzleloading rifles.  They are a different subject, but the BH209 works well in them too!

To each his own.  It is all about shooting and enjoying it!

The powder has "209" in the name.  It was designed specifically for inlines that utilize the 209 primer.

No one is complaining about the mess and cleanup of true BP rifles such as flintlocks and musket cap/#11 rifles.  I own those too.
We are only discussing an optional propellant for inlines.


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## Gunpowder (Aug 12, 2008)

WTM45, what do you mean when you say  a "209 primer - not a ML 209" - do you mean a shotshell 209?


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## JohnK3 (Aug 12, 2008)

It's designed to use a regular 209, such as a Winchester 209, Fiocchi 616 or other regular, shotshell variety 209.  You don't have to use a special "Muzzleloader 209" or some such.  Can save you some money.


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## WTM45 (Aug 13, 2008)

Gunpowder said:


> WTM45, what do you mean when you say  a "209 primer - not a ML 209" - do you mean a shotshell 209?




Exactly.  Use a Winchester 209, CCI209, CCI209M or the like.  Do not use special muzzleloading 209's like the T7 or the Remington Muzzleloading 209's.

It needs hot fire to consistantly ignite.


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## HUNTIN4LIFE (Aug 14, 2008)

WTM45 said:


> Exactly.  Use a Winchester 209, CCI209, CCI209M or the like.  Do not use special muzzleloading 209's like the T7 or the Remington Muzzleloading 209's.
> 
> It needs hot fire to consistantly ignite.




He is right on here.  I shot my Blackhorn today for the first time using a ML 209 in front of 100 grains of it and it was a mistake.  I watched my conical ride out the end of the barrel and slowly fall to the ground 20 yards in front of me.  The bad thing is I did this several times before I figured out that you HAVE TO use a shotshell type primer to get the ignition.


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## WTM45 (Aug 14, 2008)

H4L, some rifles will not work well with BH209 and conicals.  Especially Powerbelts.
The projectile needs a tight and sealed fit in the bore just like it needs good hot 209 primer fire.


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## Marlin_444 (Aug 17, 2008)

Good top know about the PowerBelts...

Guess I'll just have to use up my three containers of granual T-7 and the two boxes of pellets before I go to sabots and Blackhorn 209 stuff...

Ron


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## bevills1 (Aug 19, 2008)

Sounds like direct competition to American Pioneer powder, but American Pioneer is only $22 per pound at Moss"s Pawn in Morrow, Georgia.  I've always used regular 209 primers in a TC Black Diamond for which this newbie powder is unsuitable if I correctly interpret post #5 here.  American Pioneer works great for me, without limitations and at a fraction of the price.


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## JohnK3 (Aug 19, 2008)

American Pioneer uses a "caramel candy" propellant mixture.  Amateur rocketeers have been using a similar recipe for close to 60 years for homemade rocket motors.  It involves mixing an oxidizer, such as ammonium perchlorate, ammonium nitrate, etc with either sugar (sucrose) or sorbitol (a sugar alcohol) and heating the mixture until it melts, combining the two.  American Pioneer then grinds the propellant into grains for BP substitute.  (Actually, Goex does the grinding, as American Pioneer is a re-branded Goex Pinnacle.)

The problem with the candy propellants is the rock candy ring left in your barrel.  This ring requires a water-based solvent to remove.

Blackhorn 209 is actually based upon a different technology and does not require a water-based solvent for cleanup.   I'm not sure what BH209 is using at this time.  I know that Pyrodex is close to black powder, in that it uses a different oxidizer than BP, but otherwise is similar in formula.  Triple-7 is similar to the Goex Pinnacle family (Pinnacle, American Pioneer, Jim Shockey's Gold), in that it uses a sugar-candy propellant formula, as well.

I'd be interested in seeing what propellant formulation BH209 is using.

(BTW:  As a matter of fact, I *am* a rocket scientist.  I'm certified Level 3 with the Tripoli Rocketry Association.  I've made more than my fair share of composite propellant in my lifetime.)


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## WTM45 (Aug 19, 2008)

Think smokeless, with an inert additive made to smoke.

Not having to clean after every shooting session is well worth the cost.


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## bevills1 (Aug 20, 2008)

I know nothing about the formulation of American Pioneer powder, but according to Chuck Hawks and other sites it leaves no crud ring like Triple 7 does and cleans up more easily.  American Pioneer makes the Pinnacle powder for Goex, not the other way around.  I've shot up to 20 shots without having to clean between shots with American Pioneer and could likely continue for I don't know how many more shots before cleaning is needed.  The only advantage for 209 Powder would be no water cleaning necessary if that is the case.


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## WTM45 (Aug 20, 2008)

bevills1 said:


> The only advantage for 209 Powder would be no water cleaning necessary if that is the case.



That is the case.  No H2O.
Hoppes #9!
And, it smells SOOOOOOO good!


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## Sargent (Aug 20, 2008)

Did we establish that you had to have a removable breech plug?  Or is it just more efficient if you have one?


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## WTM45 (Aug 20, 2008)

Sargent said:


> Did we establish that you had to have a removable breech plug?  Or is it just more efficient if you have one?



The rifle has to be an inline utilizing a 209 shotgun primer.  That is what this powder was designed for specifically.


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## bevills1 (Aug 20, 2008)

What is meant by "screw slot bisecting the primer hole" in post #5, and what is a VariFlame Primer Adapter?  I have a TC Black Diamond whose primer holder screws into the breach plug, but I wouldn't say it's bisected.  Will Blackhorn 209 work in the TC Black Diamond, or will a VariFlame Primer Adapter allow this powder to work in the TC Black Diamond?

The link in the first post gives comparison of Blackhorn 209 and Triple 7 regarding actual weight equivalent to 100 grains by volume.  I also learned from American Pioneer that it's powder weighs 85 grains for the 100 grains by volume load.  A couple of calculations shows a pound of American Powder yields 82 loads for a pound of powder at that weight (85 grains by weight) per shot compared to 104 loads at the 66.8 grains by weight for Blackhorn 209.  This means there's about 22% more shots from a pound of Blackhorn 209 which means it's not quite as expensive as it first seems when the greater efficiency is considered.

I noticed too this company also makes Accurate powder which I've used to load rifle and shotshell smokeless loads for years.  I've read American Pioneer powder is hydroscopic (absorbs moisture), and they actually have a dessicant capsule in the powder container.  I also like the idea of not having to worry about cleaning immediately as with other black powder substitutes.  I'd like to try some if it will work in my TC Black Diamond.


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## WTM45 (Aug 20, 2008)

bevills1 said:


> I'd like to try some if it will work in my TC Black Diamond.



Cayuga over on Modernmuzzleloader.com has tried BH209 in a Black Diamond with excellent results.
No hangfires using W209 primers.
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9627


Your calculations are correct.  BH209 is sold in 10 ounce containers, not 1lb containers.  Yes, 66.7gr by weight is equivalent to 100gr by volume with BH209.

VOLUME in GRAINS BH209 / 1.5 = WEIGHT in GRAINS BH209 

OR... VOLUME in GRAINS BH209 X 0.667 = WEIGHT in GRAINS BH209


A 10oz can of BH209 will give apx. 65 loads of 100gr by volume.


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## JohnK3 (Aug 20, 2008)

bevills1 said:


> I know nothing about the formulation of American Pioneer powder, but according to Chuck Hawks and other sites it leaves no crud ring like Triple 7 does and cleans up more easily.  American Pioneer makes the Pinnacle powder for Goex, not the other way around.  I've shot up to 20 shots without having to clean between shots with American Pioneer and could likely continue for I don't know how many more shots before cleaning is needed.  The only advantage for 209 Powder would be no water cleaning necessary if that is the case.



My mistake.  I knew they were the same propellant manufactured by the same company.  Just got them out of order.

What I find interesting is that Randy Wakeman writes a glowing review of Goex Pinnacle, however, in a different review, on www.chuckhawks.com, he writes a scathing review of American Pioneer.

I'm waiting until I can find some BH209 locally to buy a bottle and try it out.

(Corrected attribution of the two articles on www.chuckhawks.com)


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## WTM45 (Aug 20, 2008)

A 10oz bottle of BH209 has given me 61 100gr by volume loads, and 4 120gr by volume loads.  The consistency is throughout the jug.  No powder (dust) in the bottom, all the granules are the same size and shape throughout the entire container.

I measured each load out using the same volumetric powder measure and put them into individual sealed plastic storage vials for range use.  I am set on the 100grV/67grW charge, but I want to test some 120grV for velocity numbers.  

I'm gonna take the 5-0-5 scale and weigh each one, looking for a consistant 67gr by weight.  Then, I'll see if the extra work makes a difference in consistency at the range through the chronograph.  

Bottle of BH209 plus tax retail at Cabela's is @ $40.00 
65.8 100gr by volume loads = $.61 per shot 

Not worrying about cleaning or rust = priceless!


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## bevills1 (Aug 21, 2008)

The first link in post #35 takes me to a login page, but I have no username and password for the site.  Being a 10 oz. bottle makes it about twice as much as American Pioneer and much more than smokeless powders too.  Why should it cost so much more than other black powder substitutes and all other powders as well?  I suppose it's because they have no competitor with comparable product, and they can charge what ever they please and make a killing at the consumer's expense.


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## fishndinty (Aug 21, 2008)

oi.   If you are using grains, the abbreviation is gr, not g....some dumb schmo is gonna use a 150 gram charge and blow himself to he__!!!


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## WTM45 (Aug 21, 2008)

fishndinty said:


> oi.   If you are using grains, the abbreviation is gr, not g....some dumb schmo is gonna use a 150 gram charge and blow himself to he__!!!



I stand corrected.  I weigh nothing in grams.  I leave that to the PharmD.


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## WTM45 (Aug 21, 2008)

bevills1 said:


> The first link in post #35 takes me to a login page, but I have no username and password for the site.  Being a 10 oz. bottle makes it about twice as much as American Pioneer and much more than smokeless powders too.  Why should it cost so much more than other black powder substitutes and all other powders as well?  I suppose it's because they have no competitor with comparable product, and they can charge what ever they please and make a killing at the consumer's expense.



Yes, MM.com requires membership.  Join up!  It is an excellent site with some great folks.

You can think what you want about the retail pricing.  I wish it was cheaper too.  Fact remains a manufacturer will attempt to recover their investment in R&D, marketing and overhead.  The average inline shooter does not shoot a bottle per year.  So, like everything, there are tradeoffs.


BH209 is comparable with the cost of T7 pellets.
T7 50/50 pellets plus tax are $31.79 per 100 @ Cabelas.  That is $.63 per shot, two pellets, 100gr.

I think the small extra expense is greatly outweighed by the benefits.  BH209 is much more consistant than any T7 or Pyrodex pellet loading.
BH209 in the bottle, in a speedloader or in the bore will not go bad, and has an indefinite shelf life.  Can't say that for the other subs, powder or pellets.


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## bevills1 (Aug 22, 2008)

Maybe Hodgdon or other powder maker will develop a similar product and cause price reduction, or maybe it'll come down by itself in a year or two.  I'd still like to try it when it becomes available closer to me than Bass Pro which is about 60 miles away.


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## rusty11 (Aug 23, 2008)

Wanted to say thanks for the great info on BH-209, tried a bottle. I am using 120 grains pushing a 270 grain powerbelt Platinum in my Traditions. What a diff will never go back to pyrodex had bought 777 but after reading your post I returned it and got BH-209


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## Doyle (Aug 24, 2008)

Bevills1, the best way I can describe the "slot bisecting the primer" is that the hole that the primer sits in is not completely enclosed.   On some models, there is a groove cut right through the middle of the breech plug that the plug wrench grabs like a screwdriver grabbing a slotted screw.

The Blackhorn 209 website is mostly down for reconstruction right now, but they used to have some diagrams of acceptable and non-acceptable breech plug types.


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## bevills1 (Aug 25, 2008)

WTM45 said in post #35 that someone had used BH209 with excellent results in the Black Diamond which should mean it's okay; however, his link brings up a login page, and I was unable to actually read the article.


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## WTM45 (Aug 25, 2008)

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/

Just sign up!  It is a free site.  Great group of fellow shooters there!


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## bevills1 (Sep 9, 2008)

FYI Moss Pawn in Morrow, Georgia now has BH209 for $33.95 if anybody near Morrow may want to get some.


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## Jim Thompson (Sep 22, 2008)

WTM, can you post links or photos of what you use in the field or range when reloading?

also what are you using for measuring?


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## WTM45 (Sep 25, 2008)

Jim, I just got back in from out of town.  Let's see....

I shoot a Knight Wolverine II with a 26" Green Mountain tube.
It loves this powder pushing a 240g .451 XTP/MAG in  black MMP sabot.
I get easy 1.5" groups at 100yds, most often shots are touching with a called pull/push that opens up a five shot string.
I measure out 100gr charges with a clearview plastic tube that I got years ago.  I put those charges in little storage tubes and speedloaders.  I also tried measuring some of them by weight with a RCBS 5-0-5 scale.  The tube measures by volume pretty consistant, so it is just a waste of time to hand weigh each charge IMO.

So, in the field I'll have six speedloaders ready to go.  I have well over 25 more pre-measured charges in tubes back in the kit box.
My testing so far has been at 50yds and at 100yds.  I have not worked with 150yds or 200yds yet...but I will!
I have hit a target at 150 with it.  One shot, held the crosshairs at top of target.  Maybe seven-eight inches low.

This powder is the real deal.  Less smoke, easy cleanup.  No need to follow each shot with a patch.


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## fountain (Sep 30, 2008)

i now have my first ml.  i got the 777 pellets when i got it and also have the 200 gr tc shockwaves.  i am guessing the buckhorn is a powder.  how do i load the gun--just pour it down the bll.  can someone give me some advice on which bullet/sabot to get and how to load to get precise measurements everytime.  i do have a grain scale.  not up to par with the ml's yet--but learning everyday!

i will go shoot my current set up today to see how it groups with what i have.  i an shooting this out of an encore with bdc scope.


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## WTM45 (Sep 30, 2008)

fountain,
Drop two T7 pellets in the tube the correct way and your chosen bullet should do fine.  IMO, three is just a waste of money in comparison to the results.  Be sure to swab the bore after each shot.  Clean thoroughly after a session.

The BH209 is easy to measure out using any chosen powder measure.  It does not require swabbing between shots, and is much less corrosive so cleaning is not completely required each shooting session.  Just pour in a 100gr charge (by volume), seat your chosen bullet/sabot combo and have fun!

Enjoy muzzleloading!


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## bevills1 (Sep 30, 2008)

Take care not to confuse weight by volume with actual weight in grains.  All black powder loads as well as black powder substitute loads are weight by volume.  According to http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_breakthrough.htm BH209 100 grain charge by volume actually weighs 66.8 grains.  If one loaded 100 grains actual weight of BH209, that would equal 149.7 grains by volume charge which would be a dangerous load in guns designed for 100 grain load maximum.


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## Slayer (Sep 30, 2008)

very true.....

in an attemt to get my encore to do all that it is capable of, I opted to measure my Blackhorn 209 by weight.......for me and the digital scales I have, 75 grains of bh209 is as close to 110 grains by volume  as one can get......


I found that with black powder or black powder substitutes, you had to make a choice when measuring by "volume"....to tamp the measuring device or not tamp when measuring....this could make a difference up to several grains.......by measuring mine by weight, that alleviated the problems associated with inconsistant loads, especially with the BH209, due to its shape and size

again, this probably did'nt have that much effect as far as a "hunting load"...but i wanted this gun to be as accurate as i could possibly get....I've tried many many  powder/bullet/sabot combos....and finally worked up my load to the point that the gun is way more capable than I am as a shooter


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## Jim Thompson (Sep 30, 2008)

well I am a believer after today. although I am not and have never claimed to be a great shot, this stuff is GREAT and is clean.

this is my original setup.  I shot fine with it, but never had much consistency.

encore 50 cal
leupold vxiii 3.5x10x50
150 grains 777 (three pellets)
250 TC shockwave
winchester 209 primers

today I shot the same gun and scope and...
100-110 grains by volume of BH 209
250 grain TC shockwave
winchester 209 primers

shooting on bench with decent rest and 84 degrees

my first shot was at 25 yards with 100 gr powder to make sure I was at least still on paper after changing the powder and weights. I was dead center and about 3/4" high.

I then moved to 100 yards and shot my first 3 group and all three touched each other at about 3.50" high and 2" left.  I didnt make any adjustments from here because I knew I was going to be playing with the powder volumes. but to say the least I was immediately pleased with the group.  I would probably lower it a half inch and move the group to the right to be dead center.  3" high at 100 should put me about 4" low at 200.

ONLY look at the group.  the others were experimenting with different powders...all the way down to 60 grains volume for Lela to shoot and a couple of flyers.

first group 100 yards 100 grs bh209






then I changed to 110 grains and although still good for a ML at 100 yards you can see that the group opened up considerably.  only thing changed was the volume of powder. ONLY look at the top left group.

100 yards 110 grains bh209





ZERO swabbing between shots and ZERO issues getting the bullet in the barrel.  ZERO misfires.  to clean (if I do today) I will run a bore cleaner and clean it like a rifle.


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## fountain (Sep 30, 2008)

ok--what do i weigh the stuff in?  does it come with a little container to pour it in to get the exact amount or what?  i am interested in getting some being tha i need more powder anyway.  i am still leaning towards the 777, but hate the clening after every shot and i could clean all day and never get it 100% clean i dont think


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## Slayer (Sep 30, 2008)

you can use a standard "volume" measuring device that is standard for blackpowder, or go to ebay and get a small digital scale that will measure "grains"   

start somewhere between 100 - 110 if by volume

70-75 if measuring by weight

remember BH209 works best by NOT cleaning between shots and also works best if you "seat" the bullet on top of the powder firmly


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## fountain (Sep 30, 2008)

ok what do i put it in to weigh it and pour it down the bbl with?  i have a small grain scale--i just need about 75 grains powder.  


when do you clean it--after each session of shooting?

if it works best not being cleaned and i clean if after my shooting/sighting in session, how will it perform in a clean bbl when the time comes.


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## WTM45 (Sep 30, 2008)

Buy BH209.
Buy a good powder measure.
Load projectile of choice.
Use shotgun 209 primer.
Have fun.
Clean when you want to.  Hoppes #9 works wonderfully.

First shot from clean barrel might be a little high.  So, foul the barrel with a shot before hunting begins.  Load up and hunt.  Clean at end of season.


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## fountain (Sep 30, 2008)

i just found a couple powder measures in bps.  how many shots you guess i can get w/o cleaning.  i still need to sight my gun in for the year.  

now where can i get some from quick.  does anyone have an order number for bps?


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## fountain (Oct 2, 2008)

how long will you leave you gun loaded--minus primer-- at a time.  a few days, week or longer?  i just picked up some blackhorn at bps and will try it soon and was wondering how long you can go without unloading.


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## Jim Thompson (Oct 2, 2008)

me and fountain have been talking via pm about this stuff and he got it all in today, maybe he has some info for us now

I know I am ready to shoot a lot more now!  110 grains on top and 100 grains on bottom


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## fountain (Oct 2, 2008)

naw no results yet.  may shoot tomorrow if i get off a little early.  i will definately try it out and play with the loads until i get it just right--i hope.  i certainly have asked enough questions!


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## banana-clip (Oct 14, 2008)

I need to try that powder, it looks like some good stuff.


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## Lostoutlaw (Oct 14, 2008)

Hey there How much is that Blackhorn powder may have to try it myself y'all keep talking about it I'm shootin a Thompson 50 one o them double Trigger guns....LOL


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## Jim Thompson (Oct 14, 2008)

its about $30 for a 10oz tub.  in the long run it costs about the same as shooting 777 pellets, but is faster and much much cleaner...

did we mention no swabbing between shots and clean up like a normal rifle?


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## bevills1 (Oct 15, 2008)

Where is it available for $30?  I found it for $33.99 at Moss Pawn in Morrow, Georgia and saw posts that said it was a little more at Bass Pro Shop.


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## Jim Thompson (Oct 15, 2008)

I THINK I paid $30 at basspro. I KNOW it was not more than $35 for the total


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