# english vs german shorthair



## ddb217 (Dec 12, 2011)

do you prefer a german shorthair or english pointer male or female and why   thanks


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## maker4life (Dec 12, 2011)

Depends if you want a bird dog or a race horse with a half decent nose .


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## kfoskey (Dec 12, 2011)

maker4life said:


> Depends if you want a bird dog or a race horse with a half decent nose .



Bird dog...which one?


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## Jim P (Dec 12, 2011)

Niether one has a tail, so they both have to be good


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## muckalee (Dec 12, 2011)

maker4life said:


> Depends if you want a bird dog or a race horse with a half decent nose .



I'll take that race horse any day.   Its like ridin' in a stock car with no brakes!!!  What a thrill.  Hold on boys!!!

All breeds have good and bad dogs.  Its just what you like.  I run 2 poina's, a setta, and 2 shorthairs.   the 2 fastest, a poina' and a shorthair.  Best nose, a shorthair.  Hardest worker - poina' Best retriever with soft mouth - a setter.  
All of em have their highs and lows.  

In todays world of weekend hunting release birds the German shorthair seems to be the best because they usually hunt a little closer.  
But on the plantations that hunt their dogs every day the dog of choice is the poina' cause they tend to be able to go wide open ever day.

Yes I am painting with a broad stroke.  And will have many disagree.  But thats the fun of it.  Bottom line is this..... If they will find, point, hold, and retrieve a dead bird I like em as a bird dog.  
Heck, if I could get the house cat to retrieve I would hunt her.  I gotta trained to whoa, and back, just a little shaky on that retrieve.


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## dbc32 (Dec 12, 2011)

i have english but nothing wrong with a german


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## wilber85 (Dec 12, 2011)

maker4life said:


> Depends if you want a bird dog or a race horse with a half decent nose .



  You let half these pointers out of the box and you wont see em again until your Garmin starts beeping and he is 200 yds away.  Better get there in a hurry!!!  and the exercise aint over yet...better be ready to walk over and pick up your bird b/c you can forget about him bringing it back to you.... 


Now those German dogs...they will hunt just about anything straight out of the box, close enough to keep up but far enough to find birds, and bring you back the ones you kill.  They do fine inside, excellent personalities, and not to mention on of the most beautiful creatures put on this earth!  I guess I am a little biased owning two of them but to this day I havent found a breed I would rather own.  They are truly the ultimate "go anywhere, do anything" dog.

Setters are mighty fine as well.  Fantastic upland dogs.  They will range out there or hunt close.  Pretty dogs but I cant stand the long hair.  Lots of style and tradition in a setter.  If I had to choose something besides a GSP it would be a setter for sure.

I have also always owned male dogs.  No particular reason, just dont know what a female would be like.  I like bold/aggressive personalities in dogs.
op2:


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## wilber85 (Dec 12, 2011)

muckalee said:


> I'll take that race horse any day.   Its like ridin' in a stock car with no brakes!!!  What a thrill.  Hold on boys!!!
> 
> All breeds have good and bad dogs.  Its just what you like.  I run 2 poina's, a setta, and 2 shorthairs.   the 2 fastest, a poina' and a shorthair.  Best nose, a shorthair.  Hardest worker - poina' Best retriever with soft mouth - a setter.
> All of em have their highs and lows.
> ...



Well said.


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## Coach K (Dec 12, 2011)

ddb217 said:


> do you prefer a german shorthair or english pointer male or female and why   thanks



Please pass the can opener for 'dem worms!


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## Setter Jax (Dec 13, 2011)

I like all the different breeds for different reasons. I think it's situational, depending on where you live and what your needs are, i.e. small apartment or yard and also taking in consideration the needs of the family.  Now if  I had a farm and the room for a large kennel I would go with the English Pointer, they are the bird terminator of pointers, not much of a family pet, they could care less if you are there or not, but hard working bird finding machines that can go all day.  If I had a huge backyard I would go with the GSP.  They are high energy dogs and if you do not have the room or time to run them every day they will destroy your backyard, patio furniture etc... But overall the best versatile hunter. For a family pet and inside outside dog it would be the Setter or Brittany Spaniel they are loyal breeds, make great pets and hunting companions and good with children.  As far as the long hair goes, buy some pet trimmers at Wall-mart and shave them down.  That's what I do.  It's hot in the south and they don't need all that hair anyway.  I keep mine High and Tight and within Navy Regulations, no hippies in my house.  Hooya brother.  There are exceptions to every rule and these are generalizations but pretty true to form based off of my own experience.


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## Coach K (Dec 13, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> I like all the different breeds for different reasons. I think it's situational, depending on where you live and what your needs are, i.e. small apartment or yard and also taking in consideration the needs of the family.  Now if  I had a farm and the room for a large kennel I would go with the English Pointer, they are the bird terminator of pointers, not much of a family pet, they could care less if you are there or not, but hard working bird finding machines that can go all day.  If I had a huge backyard I would go with the GSP.  They are high energy dogs and if you do not have the room or time to run them every day they will destroy your backyard, patio furniture etc... But overall the best versatile hunter. For a family pet and inside outside dog it would be the Setter or Brittany Spaniel they are loyal breeds, make great pets and hunting companions and good with children.  As far as the long hair goes, buy some pet trimmers at Wall-mart and shave them down.  That's what I do.  It's hot in the south and they don't need all that hair anyway.  I keep mine High and Tight and within Navy Regulations, no hippies in my house.  Hooya brother.  There are exceptions to every rule and these are generalizations but pretty true to form based off of my own experience.




Ditto the "high & tight"...  
I spent about 4 hours last week shaving down 5 dogs.  That's not to mention the couple extra hours for the shampoo (for fleas).  That's bonding time, though, so it's good.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> You let half these pointers out of the box and you wont see em again until your Garmin starts beeping and he is 200 yds away.  Better get there in a hurry!!!  and the exercise aint over yet...better be ready to walk over and pick up your bird b/c you can forget about him bringing it back to you....
> 
> 
> Now those German dogs...they will hunt just about anything straight out of the box, *close enough to keep up but far enough to find birds,* and bring you back the ones you kill.  They do fine inside, excellent personalities, and not to mention on of the most beautiful creatures put on this earth!  I guess I am a little biased owning two of them but to this day I havent found a breed I would rather own.  They are truly the ultimate "go anywhere, do anything" dog.
> ...



you talking about wild birds or shake and bake birds???


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

No question, English male.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

I say "shake and bake" because by the time wilber gets to the training grounds, rubs his shorthair down with butter to make his coat shine, shakes all them squeakers up and gets them planted in the field and gets ready to hunt...its usually already climbed to 85 degrees!


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> No question, English male.



BAM!!!  A CONVERT!!!!!:trampoline:


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

to OP...if you are even posing the question then you will probably me much happier with a German dog.  I think you either love or hate a big running english dog the first time you walk behind one. 

 I would advise you to go hunt behind each...either on wild birds or shooting preserve put outs (whichever you plan on doing the most of) and make your decision.  

Don't base it off of comments regarding pointers not adapting to the house...this is simply an untrue generalization.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> You let half these pointers out of the box and you wont see em again until your Garmin starts beeping and he is 200 yds away.  Better get there in a hurry!!!  and the exercise aint over yet...better be ready to walk over and pick up your bird b/c you can forget about him bringing it back to you....
> 
> 
> Now those German dogs...they will hunt just about anything straight out of the box, close enough to keep up but far enough to find birds, and bring you back the ones you kill.  They do fine inside, excellent personalities, and not to mention on of the most beautiful creatures put on this earth!  I guess I am a little biased owning two of them but to this day I havent found a breed I would rather own.  They are truly the ultimate "go anywhere, do anything" dog.
> ...



  That tater sure is a mean one.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wingmaster870 said:


> BAM!!!  A CONVERT!!!!!:trampoline:



They just asked me to pick between the pointer types...  not all pointing breeds.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> They just asked me to pick between the pointer types...  not all pointing breeds.



hahah..i'll take what I can get!


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## Big Doe Down (Dec 13, 2011)

We have all English, but had a friend come along on Sunday with his German puppy to help train her. The English we have are great, and this was the first time I had any experience with a German. At first it was like the german couldn't pick up any scent at all, even after running around the covey and all of our English's that were on point. But she did get better as the day went on. She never pointed a covey herself, but did begin backing every time our other dogs had a point. This was however just a puppy that was learning, so I can't say I have experience with grown germans that are already completely trained though. I sure do love hunting with English though. Great dogs. Germans sure are pretty though.


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## Big Doe Down (Dec 13, 2011)

Also, every English I have hunted with (which is a lot) will find a dead bird and bring it back to you.


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> That tater sure is a mean one.



I was getting worried yall werent gonna show up to this one!

I said I like a bold dog, I didnt say Tater was one... I'll be the first to admit he is a wuss until he smells a bird.


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wingmaster870 said:


> hahah..i'll take what I can get!



Coming from a guy who trains guinea pigs!


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> Coming from a guy who trains guinea pigs!



Just keep having fun with those easy bake birds...  I'll be in the real woods with my "guinea pigs".


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## Supercracker (Dec 13, 2011)

Ok.......this is one of those things I'm probably going to regret but I'm going to do it anyway (not an uncommon choice)

What do you mean by "Guinea Pig"?


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## Setter Jax (Dec 13, 2011)

Sc,

You’re a brave man on that one.  Not sure I want to know. Next thing you know they will start talking about gerbils and I don't want to go there either.  

SC, let me know if you start hearing banjo music.  lol


SJ


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> Ok.......this is one of those things I'm probably going to regret but I'm going to do it anyway (not an uncommon choice)
> 
> What do you mean by "Guinea Pig"?



This...  sure looks like a hard hunting dog with a bold attitude to me...


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## Supercracker (Dec 13, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Sc,
> 
> You’re a brave man on that one.  Not sure I want to know. Next thing you know they will start talking about gerbils and I don't want to go there either.




I've never been known for my discretion and good judgement. lol


Oh, ok.  They're talking about hairy dogs. I thought there might be someone besides me who has/is trying to use Guinea Fowl for training.


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## maker4life (Dec 13, 2011)

If you decide on one of those english dogs just remember Ga. law requires you to have one of these in your yard .


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> Just keep having fun with those easy bake birds...  I'll be in the real woods with my "guinea pigs".



A dog in the woods that finds no birds is just a dog in the woods!

Come talk trash when you actually kill one!!  


On a more serious note...

EP's are good dogs, but they are a totally different style of hunting.  They run big and they run fast.  Some run too much to even find birds because they just run right by em.  Once they mature and slow down, they are great dogs.  If you hunt a large area like out west, EP are very nice to have.  A lot of them are bird finding machines since they cover so much ground and most have decent noses.  The criticism you will hear most is they are hard headed, and they wont retrieve.  Not many of them will retrieve well without serious work.  I also think they lack in personality and companionship, but I have never owned one so I cant say too much about that.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> A dog in the woods that finds no birds is just a dog in the woods!
> 
> Come talk trash when you actually kill one!!



Already been on 4 wild bird hunts this year and seen half a dozen wild coveys and a few WC opening day.  Both of my dogs have pointed wild birds this year.  




wilber85 said:


> On a more serious note...
> 
> EP's are good dogs, but they are a totally different style of hunting.  They run big and they run fast.  Some run too much to even find birds because they just run right by em.  Once they mature and slow down, they are great dogs.  If you hunt a large area like out west, EP are very nice to have.  A lot of them are bird finding machines since they cover so much ground and most have decent noses.  The criticism you will hear most is they are hard headed, and they wont retrieve.  Not many of them will retrieve well without serious work.  I also think they lack in personality and companionship, but I have never owned one so I cant say too much about that.



All the talk about not being house dogs is garbage, that's a product of socializing and raising the dog to be a good house dog and MOST IMPORTANTLY getting them the exercise they require.  Remember this is coming from a brittany man.  If you want to hunt wild quail in GA, both will work.  If you want to step into a 100 acre field and see who's dog finds birds faster and more of them, that EP is going to win 4 out of 5.  But every breed has exceptions.


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> All the talk about not being house dogs is garbage, that's a product of socializing and raising the dog to be a good house dog and MOST IMPORTANTLY getting them the exercise they require.  Remember this is coming from a brittany man.  If you want to hunt wild quail in GA, both will work.  If you want to step into a 100 acre field and see who's dog finds birds faster and more of them, that EP is going to win 4 out of 5.  But every breed has exceptions.



Didnt say nothing about them being in the house??  I sure hope you can at least house train those dogs!  I just said they dont give a :nono::nono::nono::nono: about anyone but themselves.  They dont hunt for you, they hunt so they can find birds.  Some may like that...I dont.

Also I am not quite sure why you believe the EP would win that one?  As I recall last time we had our dogs out all together, Luke's Remi whooped em all!!!  (and thats only b/c Tater was only 1 yr old!) 

I think we need to hold another yearly trial.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

And remember all you GSP owners, Georgia law requires one of these on the box of birds you bring with you when you go "hunting".


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> This...  sure looks like a hard hunting dog with a bold attitude to me...



Ha!  Bold doesnt mean he thinks hes a pit bull.  Bold also has nothing to do with how hard a dog hunts.


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## Supercracker (Dec 13, 2011)

Not sure if an EP will but, in addition to being decent and improving bird finder, my GSP is 
a good bird retriever, 
will retrieve skwerls shot out of trees, 
will find and circle rabbits
is a good blood trailer
points bedded down pigs (we're working on this one)
and helps herd cattle (not sure how that came to be, but he does it)

He's also the goofiest clown of a dog I've ever seen.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> I think we need to hold another yearly trial.



It's on.


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## maker4life (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> And remember all you GSP owners, Georgia law requires one of these on the box of birds you bring with you when you go "hunting".



Do you find more birds in Centennial or Renaissance Park ?


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

maker4life said:


> Do you find more birds in Centennial or Renaissance Park ?



  I've got more wild game in my back yard in the middle of the city in one afternoon (doves and squirrels) than some of these dogs have ever mouthed in their lifetime.


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> I've got more wild game in my back yard in the middle of the city in one afternoon (doves and squirrels) than some of these dogs have ever mouthed in their lifetime.



You got a lot of wild game in your back yard alright, but it aint the type I want my dogs hunting!


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## cam1hunter (Dec 13, 2011)

Would not trade my GSP for anything. Hunts and retrieves anything/everything. Cannot wait to get out with her this weekend and chase woodcock. I have had to discorage the pointing of pigs and bear. One they are hard to kill with bird shot and two they are too big for her to retrieve. Although she tried to bring me the piglet she pointed and I shot 2 years ago.  (did not shoot at the bears, did not want to make them mad as the dog was sure to beat me back to the truck)


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> Not sure if an EP will but, in addition to being decent and improving bird finder, my GSP is
> a good bird retriever,
> will retrieve skwerls shot out of trees,
> will find and circle rabbits
> ...



But...can your dog do this???


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## maker4life (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> I've got more wild game in my back yard in the middle of the city in one afternoon (doves and squirrels) than some of these dogs have ever mouthed in their lifetime.




I hear ya ! And that's the main thing the OP needs to know . If you want a bird dog , whatever breed you choose , make sure you're out there tearing up boot leather and finding birds . 

Makes me sick to see a hunting dog become nothing but a couch potato . 


There's plenty of labs out there for that !


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## Supercracker (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> But...can your dog do this???



well, as a matter of fact. He does try to get the goldfish in the water troughs. Although, he's never caught one.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

maker4life said:


> I hear ya ! And that's the main thing the OP needs to know . If you want a bird dog , whatever breed you choose , make sure you're out there tearing up boot leather and finding birds .
> 
> Makes me sick to see a hunting dog become nothing but a couch potato .
> 
> ...



x2

  on the red text.  May get some of those crazy waterfowlers over here with that comment.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> well, as a matter of fact. He does try to get the goldfish in the water troughs. Although, he's never caught one.



Hunting dogs will find something to hunt


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> x2
> 
> on the red text.  May get some of those crazy waterfowlers over here with that comment.



They are all in time out. lol


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> They are all in time out. lol



I got you a new t shirt for Christmas.  :swords:


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> I got you a new t shirt for Christmas.  :swords:



so?


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> Didnt say nothing about them being in the house??  I sure hope you can at least house train those dogs!  I just said they dont give a :nono::nono::nono::nono: about anyone but themselves.  They dont hunt for you, they hunt so they can find birds.  Some may like that...I dont.
> 
> Also I am not quite sure why you believe the EP would win that one?  *As I recall last time we had our dogs out all together, Luke's Remi whooped em all!!!  (and thats only b/c Tater was only 1 yr old!) *I think we need to hold another yearly trial.



I must have missed that one...which pointer did Remi whoop up on???  I know it wasnt a honkeytonk dog....


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

As I remember it ole Remi out pointed every dog out there, meanwhile Eddie busted a wild covey?


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> As I remember it ole Remi out pointed every dog out there, meanwhile Eddie busted a wild covey?



I don't remember that, I think I got there late.  Anyway, you want to come turn out with us Saturday morning?  One dog each on public land and see what happens?


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> As I remember it ole Remi out pointed every dog out there, meanwhile Eddie busted a wild covey?



if it was that bad then i must have erased it from my memory cause I cannot recall ever witnessing a shorthair besting a Honkeytonk or Tomoka dog???


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> I don't remember that, I think I got there late.  Anyway, you want to come turn out with us Saturday morning?  One dog each on public land and see what happens?



I will be out there on Saturday but I am going out with Mark and his new shorthair.  Maybe we can meet up and see which breed wins out??


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 13, 2011)

Boy this has been very intersting to follow today but I agree on hunt what breed you like. Just let them do what they are bred to do. Myself I love brits first. However if we had tons of wild quail here or lived out west I may spice it up with a pointer or setter. Enjoy them all while we still can.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> I will be out there on Saturday but I am going out with Mark and his new shorthair.  Maybe we can meet up and see which breed wins out??



didnt think i would ever say this but i might put some money on nitram's guinea pig.....


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wingmaster870 said:


> didnt think i would ever say this but i might put some money on nitram's guinea pig.....



Careful...you lose that bet and we might have to nickname Sam "Moneydawg"!


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 13, 2011)

oh i meant between the brittany and the two shorthairs....i think a 2 hour brace would be an entertaining matchup.  

I'll judge...i could use a could 1/4 mile walk.


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## wilber85 (Dec 13, 2011)

Lots of talk.....  Tater was almost out running Eddie last time.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 13, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> Lots of talk.....  Tater was almost out running Eddie last time.



That is stretching the meaning of the word almost there...


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## asc (Dec 13, 2011)

Kinda favor EP's myself...Miller lines


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## FDSB Pointer (Dec 14, 2011)

I strongly prefer English Pointers over all other breeds. I feel they are better bird finders, run bigger, are more intense on point, are tougher, take the heat better, have better endurance an mature faster than all the other breeds as a general rule. Over 90% of all major circuit field trials are won by English Pointers an I believe that is simply because they are a better breed of dog. Personally I would never own a pointing breed other than a English Pointer. Just my opinion.

Chris


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## BirdNut (Dec 18, 2011)

FDSB Pointer said:


> I strongly prefer English Pointers over all other breeds. I feel they are better bird finders, run bigger, are more intense on point, are tougher, take the heat better, have better endurance an mature faster than all the other breeds as a general rule. Over 90% of all major circuit field trials are won by English Pointers an I believe that is simply because they are a better breed of dog. Personally I would never own a pointing breed other than a English Pointer. Just my opinion.
> 
> Chris



BAM!  Well put.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 18, 2011)

FDSB Pointer said:


> I strongly prefer English Pointers over all other breeds. I feel they are better bird finders, run bigger, are more intense on point, are tougher, take the heat better, have better endurance an mature faster than all the other breeds as a general rule. Over 90% of all major circuit field trials are won by English Pointers an I believe that is simply because they are a better breed of dog. Personally I would never own a pointing breed other than a English Pointer. Just my opinion.
> 
> Chris



my thoughts exactly


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## PJPOINTER (Dec 22, 2011)

Pointers  female


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## dbc32 (Dec 22, 2011)

i have english pointers cause thats what my grandpop and dad  had and hunted


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## FDSB Pointer (Dec 28, 2011)

Nice to see there are few others out there that prefer English Pointers as well!

Chris


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 28, 2011)

If I am hunting wild birds off of horse back, wagon with scouts or jeep, give me english pointers all day and twice on sunday.  If I am walking behind the dog, gsp s will do.  EPs are about one thing and one thing only, finding birds.  I use my weims on foot, had a chance to hunt my female off horse back earlier this season and she suprised me and ranged far and found a mess of birds once she got over barking at the horses and trying to play with them.


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## FDSB Pointer (Dec 30, 2011)

I'll take the EP's walking or riding. Ill even take a all age field trial pointer an hunt them on foot for woodcock. Dont get me wrong I won't turn one loose without a collar on but most of the good ones get the idea that it's a different ball game when were on foot as opposed to when I get on a horse an blow my whistle.

Chris


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## maker4life (Dec 30, 2011)

I'll take an EP also ..........................................................to the pound .


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