# Do you Prefer Suzuki or Yamaha Outboards?



## Capt. Richie Lott

I had a friend of mine email me last night to hear a surprise I knew nothing about.

He has a 2009 Suzuki 115 4-Stroke Outboard with only 40 hours and is having a MAJOR fuel evaporation problem inside the engine. Basically, when very hot outside, the engine is vaporlocking. He showed me a Video of the boat doing that, and I found several others after research last night till about midnight... I couldn't believe it.

 The boat won't get on plane half the time without shutting down when it's hot outside.  He asked Suzuki to put a new engine on his boat.. They told him it would do no good because the new ones have the same problem!!  

After looking into this as a potential Suzuki customer, I found this problem is EVERYWHERE with the 115's and 150's in the 4-stroke model. There are many, many people with this exact issue. That just makes for an aggravating day on the water. Suzuki's Better Business Bureau rating tells it all. Their grade is a C , Yamaha's is an A. 

 I was considering re-powering with Suzuki's on my 31 Contender and getting the Twin 300's. Even though it's a different powerhead than the 115/150, I won't do it now. Suzuki has apparently given al these folks the run around and said they should have the problem corrected in about six months... THATS NOT THE RIGHT ANSWER for someone who just spent 8-10 grand on an engine. 

Bottom Line, just like it's always been and always will be it appears: I PREFER YAMAHA. 

Oh I almost forgot, SUZUKI MARINE COMPANY admitted to having this problem. They're very sorry about this...  ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY KIDDING ME??????????


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## BowShooter

HONDA Its not on there but it sips gas


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## jamrens

I agree Richie I know of a guy with the same problem.  What ever happend to good customer service after the sale.


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## Hut2

MERCURY!


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## Capt. Richie Lott

BowShooter said:


> HONDA Its not on there but it sips gas



Yeah, I couldn't do but 4 optins on the poll thing... I should have used that instead of Suzuki!


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## Doyle

The Honda engines are not any more fuel efficient than Suzuki or Yamaha.   They do, however tend to be heavy for their horsepower.  I love Suzukis but don't like their customer service and parts policy.  Their parts prices are absolutely insane.

Also, service is harder to get on a Suzuki.  That is because corporate Suzuki will only let authorized dealer mechanics attend their factory schools - no independent mechanics allowed.  That means you have to find a Suzuki dealer for service and dealers are pretty widely scattered.   Other manufacturers allow independent mechanics to attend their factory schools.


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## homey

*suzuki*

I think all of the Jap engines are good.Suzuki's downfall is more the company than the product.None of the 4 strokes make great power(especially Honda) except Mercury Verado's but I won't jump up and boast them.We run Mercury on our boat as a promo deal but we run(3) 2 stroke 300 XS on a 38 Fountain.The Verado drinks more fuel than the XS.I deal with Jap and Korean auto engineers everyday in my work.Yamaha builds car engines for Toyota and Ford.Ford uses a 5.3 ltr V8 in the Volvo XC90 and turned it vertical and made a 350 outboard.Suzuki does a very large amount of head and valvetrain work for most asian cars.I wouldn't be scared of any of the Jap brands for reliability issues.I wouldn't buy an Evinrude simply because I don't think they'll be around before your warranty runs out.


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## Ole Dog

*Yamaha*

I was down in Venice la. last week and everyone had yamahas on the back of their boats. Out of about 50 boats i saw one mercury and the rest were yamahas. Someone did say they are having some harmonic problems with the V8s around 4000 RPMS. But all of the 250hp and lower are bullet proof.


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## homey

Ok don't tell the guys up in Wisconsin but I do have a Yamaha on my duck hunting boat.Matter of fact it replaced one just like it.


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## Capt. Richie Lott

Ole Dog said:


> I was down in Venice la. last week and everyone had yamahas on the back of their boats. Out of about 50 boats i saw one mercury and the rest were yamahas. Someone did say they are having some harmonic problems with the V8s around 4000 RPMS. But all of the 250hp and lower are bullet proof.



Amen. Bullet Proof.

Before I start this, I want everyone to know, Yamaha DOES NOT GIVE ME ENGINES. (wish they did) The discount I could get from them could be got from most all of the Builders. Not a big deal, so this is from MY EXPERIENCE NON-BIASED. 

 Out of the 30+ boats I have personally owned (Brokered over 250 outboard boats as well) over the years, I could fill up this board with stories. I know what broke and what didn't out of all those engines and I have the memories and headaches from all those boats to be critical of other engines besides Yamaha. Plain and simple, I have never had one leave me anywhere. Period. I am prepared to argue the point.  And, I know that a Yamaha don't usually break, but people have had a problem here or there as with anything, but it's minimal and I promise you this... You CAN FIND a Yamaha dealer that knows how to work on your engine if you do have a problem.

This is one subject that I am well versed in by experience of owning different powerhouses and working with several dealers. Mostly, my experience with outboards were 150 HP and up from 1987-2008. I know nothing about the V-8's except what I hear.

I remember I was selling a Donzi 32 ZF with twin 250 XS Mercs one day for an owner and the port engine blew up on the sea trial.   That just don't inspire me much. Lost that sale. I think people need to remember, Mercury is a racing breed for the most part. They are fast and run in the red and loose is fast... and fast they are, if they will run. They are without a dubt the fastest motor on the water. Especially the XS Opti.

 Honda's are heavy and slow, Mercury's are fast and suck fuel and they break, but they're light, Suzuki's suck cause no one works on them, Evinrudes... Uhh.. I do know that the Sea Island Company was running (5) Evinrude E-TECS and had 4 power head failures, 3 lower unit failures, over 12 injectors and various other problems including ECU's. There was almost always a boat down each week. 


They had me sell all those and they Spent over $100K to put all new Yamaha's on their boats and aint had a problem since and are in the 600 hour range, and they are paying for the motors by NOT having to use $30 per gallon E-TEC oil, plus their clients don't have to listen to that rattle box on the transom all day long.

Lastly, the best way to find out what kind of outboard you want to own? GO TO THE TOURNAMENT IN BILOXI DURING THE SKA NATIONALS AND WATCH WHAT ENGINES ARE BREAKING DOWN AND WHO IS BUSY WORKING ON WHAT MOTORS AT THE MANUFACTURERS TRAILERS. I know the answer.... Who is broke down the most?? Hummm.....


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## jonkayak

Just a little digging I did at the Better Business Bureau 

Suzuki BBB rating "C-"
http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Repor...oard-100011549

Yammah BBB Rating "A-"
http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Repor...-America-33457

Honda BBB rating "B"
http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Repor...rporated-11279

Evinrude BBB rating "A-"
http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/busines...u-wi-28001219/


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## jonkayak

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## GONoob

I really hope Suzuki can deliver. They have treated us very well in the motorcycle industry.


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## Capt. Scott Griffin

Yammy...gets my vote.  I have had my boat for 15months..450 hours on a 150hp 2 storke.   I run it and run it hard..no problems..never...I have seen Mercs coming in doing the dead engine salute and have been on boat with an ETEC and it E-popped. Most of the boats I fish on have Yammy's and we have never been left stranded.


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## jonkayak

Hi guys, 

I thought I would pipe in here. I'm pretty sure the Captain is talking about my boat. It's a shame that Suzuki Customer Service is the way that they are because thats a good motor when it runs and its unbelievably quit. I was even telling people that a thought it maybe a better motor then the Yamaha but then I had to deal with the Suzuki Customer Service. They may even be better but the warranty is worthless when the company who issues it fails to stand behind it. At first I thought it was just me and that I had just got some under educated person on the line at Suzuki Customer Service and that surely if I went through different channels this would be handled differently. Unfortunately that is not the case. I have now done a good bit of research on the issue and the people having issues with Suzuki all are feed the same lines time after time. I can post link after link on this exact issue but some of them would be removed. If you want the links send me a PM. I started the video not to bash Suzuki but to warn others what they could face if they spend thousands to purchase a motor that is manufactured by a company that refuses to stand behind it's product. 

I will give credit were credit is due. I purchased the boat and motor brand new last year from the Grass Shack in Buford and they seem to be really helpful in getting this resolved. They have checked and double checked everything and replaced the fuel pump, bulb, and asv in an effort to resolve this problem. I feel bad for them also because the Suzuki Southeastern Service Rep has told them that he would be here twice to fix the motor only to reschedule because of some reason or another and now has put us off indefinitely. 

Jon


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## thendric

I've got a 2006 Suzuki 140 4 stroke that has been a great engine so far, BUT I did experience an engine shut down when getting up to plane once on a hot day.  I thought I had hit a line in the water but didn't see anything when i trimmed the motor up.  I had to re-prime and start the boat.  It ran fine after that but does have me worried.


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## homey

*suzuki*

Like I said earlier here.Suzuki's biggest problem is the Company alot more than the product and it has been for 20 years.They aren't that bad just no support.I'm pretty sure Yamaha wins that hands down.I've been connected with Mercury for 25 years first through racing and now fishing and they do have room for improvement in the fishing side.The only Yamaha's I've owned were 25 hp and between 2 of them in the last 20 years they've never had a problem that was Yamaha's fault.Trust me they get abused and ran wide open all the time.I beleive if I was spending my money I would buy the brand with the triple tuning forks.


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## Capt. Richie Lott

homey said:


> Like I said earlier here.Suzuki's biggest problem is the Company alot more than the product and it has been for 20 years.They aren't that bad just no support..



100% Agreed.


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## homey

Ok I'll tell.It's been raining down here all day and we're catching up on the news of the world on GON.I'm getting paid to be here. Tough life we live.You're right Richie we don't have tarpon in Ga. I thought I saw one once but I realized I had just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and that explained everything.


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## thendric

Just watched the video and that is exactly what my boat did.  We ran the boat about 30 mins with no problem.  Fished for about an hour in the hot Savannah sun and then cranked up to go.  No problem starting.  I got it up to plane and then it just stopped...total loss of power.   I bought the boat used and did not transfer the warranty in time (I didn't read the fine print until it was too late).  Does it help to re-prime the boat before you start up again?   I have used the boat at least 20 times this year with no problem before this.


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## jonkayak

The video does not show it but I did prime it to try and get it restarted. I actually have that on video too but edited to keep it short. Suzuki informed me that in the mean time I should let it idle for several mins before and after every run. Doesn't work to well for run gun gun bass fishing and trying take people skiing. Priming it before each start up helps.


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## mauser64

Honda! It dosen't do anything fancy. It just cranks up and runs when I tell it to.


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## germano1

yamaha for me.  hondas are heavy.


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## homey

germano1 said:


> yamaha for me.  hondas are heavy.



And bad slow


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## Parker Phoenix

I chose the Evenrude E-tech.


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## Colby

Yamaha period!  Zuki's would be my second choice. Mercury Opti's where our worst motors to date!


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## brailediver

Yamaha all day long! I owned a Yamaha made Mariner some years back. It ran all day 5 days a week pulling a 30' net for 4 years.Never a problem. I sunk that boat 3 times & it never took me more that a couple of hours to have it running again without having to call a mechanic. 
 I  am running a Yamaha now & will stick with them. I know many others that feel the same. Tried & true.


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## XTREME HUNTER

Colby said:


> Yamaha period!  Zuki's would be my second choice. Mercury Opti's where our worst motors to date!



I have a set of Opti's twin 225's and (knock on wood) have had nothing but good out of them


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## PaulD

For a small block I would take a Yammi. For a big block I would take the Mercury ProXS. I have several friends that have been running them and running them hard for the last 3-4 years with no issues. Another 2-3 years will really tell the tail if Merc has all the kinks worked out. They are strong and light and just maybe they will have the dependability issues worked out now.


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## getcha1

*Fuel*



jonkayak said:


> The video does not show it but I did prime it to try and get it restarted. I actually have that on video too but edited to keep it short. Suzuki informed me that in the mean time I should let it idle for several mins before and after every run. Doesn't work to well for run gun gun bass fishing and trying take people skiing. Priming it before each start up helps.



  It sounds like it is fuel deprivation. It is hard to believe that a company won't stand behind their product especially at a time like now. You are handling it right man. Now I'm scared to death!
  We have twin 200 zukis and as of yet, no problems(2005 models), but they are a little stubborn to get started when cold. After running, they run like a fine watch. On the last boat we had twin 140s and no issues at all. Still a Suzuki fan for now.
  You might want to contact Eddie @ Rivercraft Marine in Callaway Fla.(east Panama City). They are a Suzuki Dealer and they are the only ones we allow to touch our motors. Eddie will spend as much time with you as needed and will shoot you straight. 850-871-2920  Good Luck


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## jonkayak

getcha1 sent you a pm.

Thanks for the heads up about Eddie I might have to give him a call if this drags out to much longer. It also seem thats the problem is related to the newer models 06 -07 and up. It also seem that it's mostly in the 90 - 140 hp range but I have spoken with others that have 150hp and 225hp that are having similar issues. Some were in there something was changed and redesigned and something went wrong.


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## BowShooter

I kinda think all 4 stroke are pretty reliable but every brand is going to have some flaw


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## mrpdl

XTREME HUNTER said:


> I have a set of Opti's twin 225's and (knock on wood) have had nothing but good out of them



I have a 2006 200 Opti with no problems to date!!


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## Capt. Richie Lott

I ran Opti's in 1999-2001. The one you have is a great engine, actually. It's a de-tuned 225... Same Block squeezing less HP. The big block problems ended about the time I dropped Mercury off my boat.. The new new ones are much better and the bugs seem to be worked out. A couple things I know about Opti's to be true:

1. Be sure you got 12 volts or better when you start it. She has to turn over and find cylinder number one, then she fires off. If the system has 11.9 volts, forget it.. She'll spin, but not start.

2. Keep an eye on your air compressor. My compressors gave me a fit back then. If you hear ratting on top of the engine, it is probably that compressor, which is belt driven along with the alternator.

3. Watch for water in your bottom cowl. This will be the poppet valve failing. If you trim the engine up and water pours out of the engine cowl, thats what happened normally.

4. Watch fast shiftng quickly from reverse back to forward around the dock. It WILL shut off now and then. I crushed 2 cowlings because of that.

5. Opti's spray fuel directly on the Plugs. Change the plugs when you are supposed to. If you don't it will leave you somewhere. When it happens, you will know... It'll sound like the engine is coming off the transom.

ALL FYI...


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## homey

We run the 300 XS motors.They are the 3 litre block with a"stroker" crankshaft in them.That means more compression.Anytime you have more comp. you need to run better fuel.We run 93 oct. and Merc hi-perf. oil.exclusively.If we run 89 we loose 5 mph.We've run a total of 14 of these motors and each time they get better.The last 6 have been trouble free and we don't baby them.We've also learned what's better for them.For a commercial boat use something else.We now run 3 on the boat.2 years ago we ran 4 on a boat,and the problem was getting water to the gearcase housing to cool the oil.Not Merc's fault.For a more realistic pleasure boat I would choose something else just because these aren't your grandfathers outboard.Oh yeah they're a little loud.Shhhhh.It's hard to argue with the Yamaha's.Just understand your needs.


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## mauser64

homey said:


> And bad slow



Heck man, once you get past 50 mph on the water does it really matter? A lot of these post are saying if you have this motor do this this and this but not that, or if you have that motor do that but not this this or this.

Just slap a Honda on it and go fish! Leave the head scratching for the merc and suzuki folks!


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## homey

mauser64 said:


> Heck man, once you get past 50 mph on the water does it really matter? A lot of these post are saying if you have this motor do this this and this but not that, or if you have that motor do that but not this this or this.
> 
> Just slap a Honda on it and go fish! Leave the head scratching for the merc and suzuki folks!



Not arguing the reliablity of a Honda.In most cases underpowered means using more fuel.They're too heavy and underpowered for their size regardless what's written on the cowling.Most things made by Honda are great.


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## Robert 31320

Once upon an OMC time it was Evinrude for me.  I've had a *Yamaha* since April 2005 and *I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!*


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## fireman1501

mercury for me and most of the pro bass fisherman


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## Bubba_1122

Have had several Yammies over the years. Loved em (actually have one on smaller boat now that's been stellar). 

Have a Suzuki 225 on a 23' bay boat. It's been a very smooth running and dependable motor. 

I'd rather sit at home than to ever have to depend on an  Optimax/Mercury again (no, it wasn't a good experience).


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## billy336

I have 301 hrs on my 2005 2 stroke 150 YAMAHA. You couldnt give me a different motor. I laugh at the 4 strokes as I haul the mail past them.


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## PaulD

mauser64 said:


> Heck man, once you get past 50 mph on the water does it really matter?




To some of us it does....but I have a sickness. I get angry at mine when it won't push out 60 on some days. I'd really like to be able to cruise at 55 and max at around 75. Like I said though, I have a sickness.



Top is what I have. =58-60mph, 55 standard load

Bottom is my buddys, same hull with 250 ProXS. Saw 76.4 on it with 2 people


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## jonkayak

Just an update. 

The Better Business Bureau sent me a letter today informing me that Suzuki has refused to respond to them. Also I have left 2 voice mails with my Suzuki Customer service rep in the last three weeks and they have gone unanswered. The Grass Shack, the place I bought the boat from still has no updates for me either. I'm pretty much at a lose as to what to do short of calling a lawyer. This is getting old real quick.


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## Lynn in Mid GA

I know I'm admitting stupidity here...but my Suzuki 115 was doing the same thing until I figured out that the vent on the fuel tank cap should be open.  BTW, I'm a first time new boat owner.  So far, I've had no problems as mentioned here but I admit I'm a little worried about getting stuck now.


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## nitesbeacon

As unfortunate this story is, thanks for sharing. The feeling of buying a brand new problem has to be frustrating and then to get the run around on top of that is unacceptable.


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## jonkayak

Lynn I tried the fuel cap hoping it was something that simple. It seems to be that it's a low pressure fuel pump problem, at least thats how they were fixing these problematic motors. Also you shouldn't see this problem until it's at least 85 degrees out or better. Hopefully it'll never happen to you.


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## getcha1

Man as long as this has been going on, I would have gotten some legal attention already. I have no use for that kind of behavior. Maybe you could get your lawyer to give them a "letter of intent" to help inspire them to move their rear ends. It should be a cheaper place to start before a full-on lawsuit. Document everything! Good luck with it.


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## jamrens

i agree sue them.. tell them to get you a Yamaha


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## jonkayak

Update!

I was called on Tuesday by the Grass Shack and told to have my boat up at the Grass Shack by next Tuesday to have it repaired by Suzuki. So today I take it up there only to have them tell me that Suzuki just called and postponed it. Not because they don't have the fix but because I have complained to much. What gets me is that I have only talked with Suzuki maybe 6 times in the last 3 months. What they did say was they will get to me once they get around to the next round of motors to fix. I under stand working out issues but there customer service is really the worst I have ever seen. 

Sorry for the vent I'm about to blow a top here dealing with Suzuki.


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## jamrens

SUE THEM go off on them.. You have a warranty make them uphold it..


WHit


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## Lynn in Mid GA

You've done a good thing here letting folks know how bad they are.  Hopefully, sometime in the not so far off future you can trade your motor for a Yamaha or preferred model with better customer service.  I'll tell ya...I hate bad customer service!  I've dealt with the Grass Shack guys and they seem to be pretty decent.  Can only imagine they hate having to liaison for Suzuki in this kind of circumstance.  Based on your experience this looks like the first and last Suzuki I will own...I hate bad customer service...too much competition out there to have to put up with it.  I know your frustrated but thanks for passing on your experience.


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## getcha1

Are you sure the Grass Shack is being straight with you? I would never tell one of "my" customers that a vendor said something that derogatory.


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## jamrens

getcha1 said:


> Are you sure the Grass Shack is being straight with you? I would never tell one of "my" customers that a vendor said something that derogatory.



I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT ALSO but maybe the grass shack is as tired of suzsucki as jon is...


WHit


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## FlyingFishing

I've had 2 Yammys, 1 Merc, and 1 Force on my boats.  The Force wasn't bad, but it was a 9.9.  The Merc was a 40hp from 1978 I went through, rebuilt totally just to have it mess up later.  I still have parts for that motor.  My two Yammys... One was a 1993 85hp.  Never a single problem with it.  Ran it hard almost everytime I used it.  My current Yammy is a 1996 150 Saltwater Series II.  This motor is awesome too.  Never a problem either.  Run it hard and long and it has never skipped a beat!

Its amazing what a little WD40 will do to make an engine look brand new when you spray it on after you run it too!


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## jonkayak

jamrens said:


> I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT ALSO but maybe the grass shack is as tired of suzsucki as jon is...
> 
> 
> WHit



May very well be the case! I was abel to get in touch with the south eastern rep for suzuki yesterday and he varrafied that it was all Suzuki's doings and that what the Grass Shack has been telling me is the truth. I'll post a few more details once I get to real comp and off this phone. In the mean time I guess I owe yhe GS a big thanks for all there help.


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## jamrens

so he told you that you have bugged them to much and to pretty much get bent?


WHit


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## getcha1

Keep in mind, the breakdown in this relationship may be between Grass Shack and Suzuki. We don't know the whole story. These are strange times right now with respect to all parties. I would try another dealer. Couldn't hurt.


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## jonkayak

jamrens said:


> so he told you that you have bugged them to much and to pretty much get bent?
> 
> 
> WHit



Seems as thought some miss communication went on as the word was being passed from Suzuki and eventual on to me. It toke me getting in touch with the guy who will actually preform the repairs to get what I hope is a straight answer from Suzuki.  

What the Suzuki guy (not Suzuki's Customer Service) told me was that they have a fix that they "hope" will work and that they want to test it on some other boats first in South Fla and Southern Texas  to make sure it'll work before they put it on my boat. He said that if they put it on my boat and it failed they were afraid of being flamed on the internet. I told the guy that if  Suzuki had tried anything on my boat then there name would have never been mentioned and that I don't mind working with them but I do not like being keep in the dark and told nothing for weeks and months on end and that is why I'm upset with Suzuki. I did ask if he though that scheduling two deferent repair dates only to cancel them both would really make me feel better about Suzuki? I also went on to inform him that I could careless if I was the guinea pig for the testing at least then I would know they were attempting to  fix the issue and not just avoiding it/me.  

Oh well I have given them enough chances and time to do the right thing and I hope they still will but for the mean time I think it's time to let a professional get involved in this issue.


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## Inshore GA

John, let us know what their solution is when they do get around to your engine.


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