# Fl/Ga reciprocal hunting and fishing agreement



## Son (Apr 22, 2008)

Check it out seniors..our reciprocal agreement may be down the tube.
From what i've read, Georgia started it. 
Not good timing with the economy like it is. This agreement has been in place since 1988. I just turned the age to benefit, and what do they do? Call me "lucky".
I have a one senior Fl hunter 70 years of age in our hunt club that wont be happy with this decision.
It's all about money at our expense, Did anybody ask us for our opinion? Saltwater and Ga trout licenses were not in the agreement. Lake Seminole and St Marys are under a seperate agreement.

Does anybody have any corrections to this?

Last I read, Florida voted to end the agreement with Ga.


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## huntfish (Apr 22, 2008)

I think it ends this June and the question is......If one gets the reciprical license before June which will have tags for 2008 season, will it be legal?


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## Son (Apr 22, 2008)

Did somebody take money away from our DNR to cause this action?

Sure sounds like it...

Bad timing is what i call it, cause I just reached that age last year.
There's going to be some mad folks...


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## JBowers (Apr 23, 2008)

State law authorizes the Georgia Department of Natural Resources to enter into reciprocal hunting and fishing licensing agreements with adjoining states.  Currently, the only reciprocal agreement with another state that recognizes hunting and fishing privileges for citizens 65 years old or older is between Georgia and Florida.  This agreement has been in effect since July 15, 1988.  Changes in licensing and hunter behavior since that time have caused an imbalance in the value realized by each state for the privileges enjoyed by its citizens.

Generally, States are willing to consider these agreements provided they are equitable and do not impose an unreasonable or uneconomical burden on the States.  Recently, Georgia investigated this agreement from a customer benefit and fiscal impact consideration.

Current estimates of hunters and anglers utilizing the reciprocal agreement indicate that the number of Florida residents hunting and fishing in Georgia is at least 3 times greater than the number of Georgians enjoying even fewer privileges in Florida.  Additionally, the loss of revenue to the states resulting from not selling licenses to the non-resident sportsmen who are covered under this agreement is 10 times greater to Georgia than to Florida.  In fact, the fiscal impact to Georgia of this agreement is a loss of at least $500,000.  A possible reason for the discrepancy in lost revenue is due to the overwhelming disparity of "senior" hunters from Florida who hunt big game, especially white-tailed deer, in Georgia.  Considering that FLorida is a prime destination for retired seniors, this discrepancy and the fiscal impact is likely to result in an even greater imbalance over time.

In an effort to seek parity in this imbalance with Florida, the Georgia Department of Natural Resources requested in August 2007 that Florida consider adding saltwater fishing privileges in Florida to the reciprocal agreement for Georgia seniors.  However, Florida indicated they would not be in favor of accepting this recommendation due to its effect upon revenue generation to their state.  In January 2008, the Wildlife Resources Division briefed the DNR Board on the overwhelming disparity in value between the states resulting from the reciprocal agreement and in March 2008 a letter was sent to the Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission notifying Florida of Georgia’s intent to cancel the reciprocal agreement effective July 1, 2008.

Also in March 2008, the Georgia DNR in an attempt to seek parity attempted to enter into good faith negotiations for another reciprocal agreement with Florida that only included freshwater fishing privileges.  The Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission, after receiving public input and deliberations among the Commission members, respectfully declined the opportunity proposed by the Georgia DNR to enter into such an agreement.

Despite attempts to reach an agreement that achieves parity for each State, beginning July 1 there will no longer be a reciprocal agreement between Georgia and Florida.  As a result, Georgia sportsmen 65 years old and older will be required to purchase appropriate non-resident licenses prior to hunting and/or fishing in Florida and vice versa.


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## Son (Apr 25, 2008)

Wouldn't ya know, and just when I obtained the golden age...

but probably not a great loss, Probably wont be able to afford the gas to go fishing in Florida anyway.


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## Doyle (Apr 25, 2008)

Son, you are close enough to go just over the border and fish places like Talquin, the appalachicola river, etc.  A person like yourself living that close to the border is going to be the biggest looser here.   I'm not there in age yet, but I was also looking forward to being able to hit both sides without having to worry about having the right license.


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## Son (Apr 26, 2008)

Little headsup to those who are looking towards retirement. It's not the golden years promised. Here's what happens to most of us working folks. When you first retire, things go good. But as time passes, inflation takes a toll on your invested retirement. Ah yes, you can make good sound investments that grow, but remember, you must draw an income to pay the bills etc. (retards growth a bunch)  Then, old SS and Medicare kicks in, another bunch of confusion. Supplemental insurance, prescription drug coverage, donut holes etc.. Most elderly I know can't figure any of it out. SS cost almost 100 bucks per month. Gas to go buy groceries, take care of business and other necessary trips cost couple hundred bucks per month in gas, minimum. Now that you got my drift, let me say this. I personally feel those making the decisions to stop the reciprocal agreement between Ga and Fl, either don't have any money worries, and/or a reciprocal agreement doesn't apply to them because they are not of age. Hammer the old verteran, old working person who has contributed to our govermental system throughout a working life. Hammer an old fisherman, hunter who gets out of their truck, holding to the door until they get their legs working. Yes, gig em for some of that money they're trying to stretch to make the month out. I don't buy the story about it's the way to get more money that's needed for DNR. Get the money from another source. Stop some of the pork and use that money.
Not saying I would ever use a reciprocal agreement, but like the idea of it being possible. I'm also concerned about all those of my age and older who will be affected. We've done our tour in the workforce, give us a break.
Money..........I'm sure they can find some being wasted somewhere.


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## saltysenior (May 9, 2008)

there are many things i do not understand about this decision....the first is the lack of news of this agreement being argued by both states, in any of the so called ''sportsman '' type media..


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## jdgator (May 9, 2008)

Im embarassed to admit I don't know what the deal used to be. Would somebody mind filling me in?


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## saltysenior (May 9, 2008)

if you where 65 yrs. old , and a resident of either fla. or ga. you could hunt and freshwater fish in both states w/o needing to buy a license...


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## MudDucker (May 9, 2008)

I had dinner with a Georgia Natural Resources Board Member last week.  He was the fellow who sponsored the bill to allow reciprocal agreements.  He said Florida soured the deal when he was in the Georgia Senate.  Florida quit negotiating in good faith.  Florida insisted on free Ga saltwater fishing for their residents, but would not reciprocate with the same for Georgia residents.


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## saltysenior (May 10, 2008)

gee, that's funny,because the powers that be in Tallahassee told me the same story,except it was ga. who ruined the agreement...


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## Son (May 11, 2008)

*Fl/Ga reciprocal hunting and fishing license*

I've read everything I can find about this subject. Looks like everything was floating along just fine, until Ga started wanted to change...things..
It's all about money, not about sportsmen and women.


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## JBowers (Jun 9, 2008)

Support wildlife conservation and management in Georgia by buying your non-resident license for $210 and then spend the $1400 to support the local economy.  At some point, we must curtail the "entitlement" programs.


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## COYOTE X (Jun 9, 2008)

Very well put. COYOTE X


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## MudDucker (Jun 9, 2008)

Son said:


> I've read everything I can find about this subject. Looks like everything was floating along just fine, until Ga started wanted to change...things..
> It's all about money, not about sportsmen and women.



I guess what you read is more accurate than what I heard from the horse's mouth


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jun 9, 2008)

MudDucker said:


> I had dinner with a Georgia Natural Resources Board Member last week.  He was the fellow who sponsored the bill to allow reciprocal agreements.  He said Florida soured the deal when he was in the Georgia Senate.  Florida quit negotiating in good faith.  Florida insisted on free Ga saltwater fishing for their residents, but would not reciprocate with the same for Georgia residents.




Names please?  Send me a PM with the names.  I have connections with the Florida Legislature and I'd like to see/hear this first hand.  PM me the name of the "GA Natural Resouces Board Member" and tell me when he was in the GA Senate.  I'll protect your identity.  Heck I don't know you as anything other than MudDucker.


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## saltysenior (Jun 9, 2008)

JBowers said:


> Support wildlife conservation and management in Georgia by buying your non-resident license for $210 and then spend the $1400 to support the local economy.  At some point, we must curtail the "entitlement" programs.



i supported it for 55yrs. by buying licenses...


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jun 9, 2008)

It's quite one thing to throw around statements claiming they were made by people who were in the know, but another to back it up with names of those folks.  I'd like to know who in the FL legislature "messed" this up, and who in the GA legislature was there trying to "protect" it.


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

Clyde...do you get off trying to create drama?  From the information I gave you, it shouldn't take you 2 minutes of looking at the bios of the members of the Georgia Natural Resources Board to see that Loyce Turner is the only former Georgia Senator serving on the board and also since I show that I am from Lowndes County, it would take another 2 minutes to see he is our former State Senator.  When he was in the Senate he sponsored the bill allowing for reciprocal agreements with border states. Now he serves on the board that received the reports on the negotiations with Florida.  DNR reported to the committee that Florida would not negotiate fishing rights in good faith.

Did I say the FL legislature...nope, I said FL.  I believe this deal soured in the negotiation stage before it got submitted to either legislature.

BTW Clyde, where is your list of named sources...whisper them here...no one will tell.

And just because you live in Tallahassee, doesn't mean you know more in the Florida legislature than I.  I represent two folks in the Florida legislature, whose names I will not mention and I know quite a few others.

I didn't ask them what happened, because Loyce Turner is a man of his word and I take his word for it.


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> It's quite one thing to throw around statements claiming they were made by people who were in the know, but another to back it up with names of those folks.  I'd like to know who in the FL legislature "messed" this up, and who in the GA legislature was there trying to "protect" it.



Exactly, so why are you doing in the reverse


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## Michael Lee (Jun 10, 2008)

Regardless of who said what about what to whom, the deal ends July 1, 2008.


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jun 10, 2008)

MudDucker said:


> Clyde...do you get off trying to create drama?



Nobody's here creating drama but you, constantly slamming FL and always assuming GA is pure as the driven snow. 



> BTW Clyde, where is your list of named sources...whisper them here...no one will tell.
> 
> And just because you live in Tallahassee, doesn't mean you know more in the Florida legislature than I.



I never claimed such, but it's nice to know that an attorney can bend the ear of a Legistlator.  

I still would like to know who in FL "messed" up the works with the GA/FL fishing license deal.  Check with Mr. Turner and get back to me.



> I didn't ask them what happened, because Loyce Turner is a man of his word and I take his word for it.



I never said he wasn't a man of his word, but maybe you should inquire as to what exactly caused the breakdown, other than just blaming it on FL.  Both FL and GA need to work on getting along a little better in State Government.  Far more Georgians are effected by the cost of fishing licenses in FL than Floridians are by the high cost of a hunting license in GA.  It's as plain at the Bulldog on the beach.


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## Michael Lee (Jun 10, 2008)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> Both FL and GA need to work on getting along a little better in State Government.



Maybe we should all start leading by example here


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> Nobody's here creating drama but you, constantly slamming FL and always assuming GA is pure as the driven snow.



You are full of manure, but then you already know that!  You and others came in slammed Georgia with untruths.  I defended and you started attacking me and questioning my sources.  When I ask for your sources, none are forthcoming, so it seems I am the only one in this online conversation who truly has any sources...other than your manure piles.



ClydeWigg3 said:


> I still would like to know who in FL "messed" up the works with the GA/FL fishing license deal.  Check with Mr. Turner and get back to me.



Excuse me, but you are mister know it all.  This is a clear admission that you didn't have any facts, just accusations.  You find out and tell us.  In the meantime, if I happen to run into Loyce, I'll ask him.




ClydeWigg3 said:


> I never said he wasn't a man of his word, but maybe you should inquire as to what exactly caused the breakdown, other than just blaming it on FL.  Both FL and GA need to work on getting along a little better in State Government.  Far more Georgians are effected by the cost of fishing licenses in FL than Floridians are by the high cost of a hunting license in GA.  It's as plain at the Bulldog on the beach.



You have just hit the nail on the head as to why the deal went sour, but like the nose on your face, you can't see it.  I was told the deal went sour because Florida would not give equal reciprocal rights, including saltwater fishing, but demanded Georgia to give all fishing rights to Florida citizens.


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

Michael Lee said:


> Maybe we should all start leading by example here



As a taxpayer in BOTH states, I've talked with folks from both governments and asked for the reciprocity.  It was in just such a conversation with Loyce that I learned that Florida refused to negotiate in good faith.  He said that he hoped they would return to the negotiating table.  Officials in Florida I've spoken to either don't have a clue about this issue or have said it would cost Florida too much to have a true reciprocity between the two states.  They didn't see that Georgia deer hunting was equal to Florida salt water fishing.


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jun 10, 2008)

Let me be the first to offer the olive branch here.



MudDucker said:


> I was told the deal went sour because Florida would not give equal reciprocal rights, including saltwater fishing, but demanded Georgia to give all fishing rights to Florida citizens.



Is there really that big of a crowd the goes to GA to fish every week?  I'm asking a serious question here.  Is the freshwater fishing so much better in GA than in FL we have people crossing the border to fish?  The reason I'm asking here is that it makes no sense that FL would be demanding fishing rights to GA.  Hunting yes, but not fishing.

Without resorting to name calling and insulting me by saying I'm full of manure.....maybe I should have worded my question to you a little differently.  Who exactly, in FL is holding up the process and putting forth a road block.  Give me a name so I can write him/her.

You need to understand something.  The Yankee crowd in S FL has taken over.  They have bred and sent their offspring to Tallahassee in the form of Legislators.  All the money in FL is in S FL, and that's who the Gov and everyone else listens too.   Look at Jeb Bush.  A CT Yankee in FL.  He catered to S FL, which is where he lived.  Never spent much time in Tallahassee or N FL.  Now we've got the same thing.  Fly's to St. Pete every Friday night and comes back on Sunday.  It ain't like it used to be. 

A good example is the net ban a few years ago.  The S FL crowd who wanted to sport fish threw all their money into this and passed the law.  Now the poor fisherman along the Gulf coast are having to pay the price.

You help me and I'll help you.  I think when all is said and done, we both want the same thing.  Help me find out who is stalling this and I'll see what I can do from this end.

Okay?


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## Doyle (Jun 10, 2008)

Clyde, the net ban was not the result of S. Fl yankees.  It was the result of lots of hard work by the sport fishermen who were seeing their breeding stock ruined by net fishermen who were taking tens of thousands of lbs of mullet and bycatch every fall.   It was one of the few constitutional amendments we've had in recent years that was actually beneficial.   Yea, a few fishermen got hurt but the inshore species that have rebounded are absolute proof that drastic measures needed to be taken. 

And lest anyone try to say "why didn't they just regulate the commercial fisherment better".  We tried.  The commercial lobby resisted EVERY effort to regulate protection of the breeding stock.  The only way to stop them was an amendment that they couldn't effectively lobby against.


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> Let me be the first to offer the olive branch here.
> 
> Is there really that big of a crowd the goes to GA to fish every week?  I'm asking a serious question here.  Is the freshwater fishing so much better in GA than in FL we have people crossing the border to fish?  The reason I'm asking here is that it makes no sense that FL would be demanding fishing rights to GA.  Hunting yes, but not fishing.



Where is this relevant?  The question on the table is and has been reciprocal sports licenses.  

I don't know how many come and go for freshwater fishing, but I know that a lot of Florida folks come to Georgia to deer hunt, few Georgia folks come to Florida to hunt anything...I am one of the few who go to Florida to hunt birds.  On the other hand, a lot of Georgia folks come to Florida to saltwater fish, where only a few Florida folks come to Georgia to saltwater fish.  Florida wanted Georgia to give full reciprocity for all fishing, but would only grant reciprocity for fresh water fishing.  Is that fair...not in my eyes and not in the eyes of the folks from Georgia who were negotiating this.



ClydeWigg3 said:


> Without resorting to name calling and insulting me by saying I'm full of manure.....maybe I should have worded my question to you a little differently.  Who exactly, in FL is holding up the process and putting forth a road block.  Give me a name so I can write him/her.



My response to your being full of manure was in response to your statement that I see Florida as always bad and Georgia always pure...which is basically nothing but flipping me off without considering what I am saying.

As I stated, I don't who is to blame in Florida. I think you need to find the names of the persons who were negotiating on behalf of Florida and ask them what happened.




ClydeWigg3 said:


> You need to understand something.  The Yankee crowd in S FL has taken over.  They have bred and sent their offspring to Tallahassee in the form of Legislators.  All the money in FL is in S FL, and that's who the Gov and everyone else listens too.   Look at Jeb Bush.  A CT Yankee in FL.  He catered to S FL, which is where he lived.  Never spent much time in Tallahassee or N FL.  Now we've got the same thing.  Fly's to St. Pete every Friday night and comes back on Sunday.  It ain't like it used to be.
> 
> A good example is the net ban a few years ago.  The S FL crowd who wanted to sport fish threw all their money into this and passed the law.  Now the poor fisherman along the Gulf coast are having to pay the price.
> 
> ...



What you need to understand is you are acting like I am some sure pure Georgia redneck who could care less about Florida.  I was raised and live 12 miles north of the line, my family has owned property in Florida for over 50 years and parts of my family migrated to Florida from Georgia and North Carolina over 100 years ago.  I now myself own a place at Cape San Blas and contribute a nice chunk of taxes each year for it.  I have fished, boated, canoed, kayaked and hunted the waters of the State of Florida for nearly 50 years.   I am a man torn between two states. I plan to spend the winters of my retirement there.  I love both states, until we meet in football 

S. Floridians didn't ban netting....almost all of the sport fishermen in Florida joined together to ban netting...why...because the net fishermen were being pigs.  They netted fish nearly to extinction, including game fish.  The sport fishing industry in Florida brings in 100's of times more revenue to Florida than the netters ever did.  I'm sorry, but that was a smart economic and conservation move.

From what I gathered from my conversation with Loyce, this issue is not stalled right now, its dead.  I don't know what it will take to get it opened back up other than a lot of sportsmen from both states raising cain.

I'm not going to chase Loyce down...he is retired now.  However, I run into him pretty often and when I do, if the opportunity presents itself, I'll ask him.


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## MudDucker (Jun 10, 2008)

Doyle said:


> Clyde, the net ban was not the result of S. Fl yankees.  It was the result of lots of hard work by the sport fishermen who were seeing their breeding stock ruined by net fishermen who were taking tens of thousands of lbs of mullet and bycatch every fall.   It was one of the few constitutional amendments we've had in recent years that was actually beneficial.   Yea, a few fishermen got hurt but the inshore species that have rebounded are absolute proof that drastic measures needed to be taken.
> 
> And lest anyone try to say "why didn't they just regulate the commercial fisherment better".  We tried.  The commercial lobby resisted EVERY effort to regulate protection of the breeding stock.  The only way to stop them was an amendment that they couldn't effectively lobby against.



Thanks....maybe it will sound better coming from someone in Florida.


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## saltysenior (Jun 10, 2008)

thanks guys for the imput....i was getting to believe i was the only poor guy over 65 in fl. or ga........what i do not understand is the lack of coverage by our outdoor press & media..both before & after.....i myself will try to find more answers to why this could be resolved instead of just being axed  it was a unique setup that should have been an example for other states to look at...


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## JBowers (Jun 10, 2008)

The reciprocity agreement in question is subject to the mutual determinations and negotiations of each state's wildlife department, not the legislatures.

As of July 1, 2008 there will be no reciprocity for reasons previously stated.


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