# 2x4 or 2x6 framing? I can't decide....



## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm currently finishing up my final plans for hopefully the only house I will build on the our family farm. I am 40 Years old and will hopefully live in this home until I perish!! I have been involved with construction on and of throughout my life working and helping others as well as a complete DIY home remodel. I have always said that when I built my 1 and only home I would frame with 2x6 exterior walls for the added insulating factor to save with heating/cooling costs. I have read and read on this topic all over the internet. My fiancé also has construction background (her dad and brothers) she's built 2 homes for herself in the past and says it's not worth it. But, that I could do what I wanted without question. I am planning for the future with 36" doors downstairs everywhere and an open layout and using separate HVAC units for up and downstairs so when the kids leave I can cut the units off as needed and heat/cool less space. I have almost pulled all of my hair out weighing the difference and have really gotten nowhere. I realize with 2x6's the doors and windows are gonna be a pain but not undoable. In MN I read in most place 2x6 is code for insulating reasons. They have extreme cold and we have extreme heat. Any input from anyone with experience in this please chime in!!!!! Thank you in advance!!


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## Wild Turkey (Feb 25, 2015)

I would spend the extra $ on infiltration wrap and quality insultation.
Also exterior sheathing.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 25, 2015)

I'd save the money...go 2x4s and spend the difference on spray foam insulation and quality windows/doors.


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## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> I'd save the money...go 2x4s and spend the difference on spray foam insulation and quality windows/doors.



This where it gets frustrating for me. I talked to a "Insulating contract/Energy adviser" he has all of these certificates and teaches classes on insulating and such. He tells me cellulose is far superior insulation than the spray foam and he sold his spray foam equipment years ago and does solely cellulose now. He also advised me to use 2x4, Cellulose, sheath the wall with OSB, and then use a 1" foam board with taped seams. well there goes the savings from not using the 2x6's when you purchase the 1" foam board. That stuff ain't cheap....


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## JustUs4All (Feb 25, 2015)

Congratulations on the project.  I think your "Insulating contract/Energy adviser" knows what he is talking about.

Also install a door at the head or foot of the stairs so as to be able to completely shut off the upstairs from the down when you need to.  
Build a spot for a good wood stove, even if you don't plan to use one now.  
36" doors are good.  Also allow room in master bed & bath for wheelchair access. And consider whether the entrance can be designed to make disability access easier to create if needed in the future.


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## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

JustUs4All said:


> Congratulations on the project.  I think your "Insulating contract/Energy adviser" knows what he is talking about.
> 
> Also install a door at the head or foot of the stairs so as to be able to completely shut off the upstairs from the down when you need to.
> Build a spot for a good wood stove, even if you don't plan to use one now.
> 36" doors are good.  Also allow room in master bed & bath for wheelchair access. And consider whether the entrance can be designed to make disability access easier to create if needed in the future.



Thank you for the comment!! I have carefully thought out all that you have mentioned. I have planned on a wood heater for the future but as you stated it will not be installed upon construction, I will add it later. I am really putting a lot of thought into this home and have for years honestly. It will have a wrap around porch also. I figured that when I get older if i'm in a wheelchair at least I will be able to enjoy the various views and seasons outdoors as much as possible....Again many thanks!


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## rjcruiser (Feb 25, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> This where it gets frustrating for me. I talked to a "Insulating contract/Energy adviser" he has all of these certificates and teaches classes on insulating and such. He tells me cellulose is far superior insulation than the spray foam and he sold his spray foam equipment years ago and does solely cellulose now. He also advised me to use 2x4, Cellulose, sheath the wall with OSB, and then use a 1" foam board with taped seams. well there goes the savings from not using the 2x6's when you purchase the 1" foam board. That stuff ain't cheap....



Well...there you go.  Key to any insulation is being air tight.  That is where spray foam excels.  But, if you can tape off every seam and keep it taped off, you'll be good.

I'd rather spend on the 1" foam board than try and figure out how every door jam/window is going to set in a 6" stud.

Let me ask this...is it going to be 4 side brick?


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## Duff (Feb 25, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> This where it gets frustrating for me. I talked to a "Insulating contract/Energy adviser" he has all of these certificates and teaches classes on insulating and such. He tells me cellulose is far superior insulation than the spray foam and he sold his spray foam equipment years ago and does solely cellulose now. He also advised me to use 2x4, Cellulose, sheath the wall with OSB, and then use a 1" foam board with taped seams. well there goes the savings from not using the 2x6's when you purchase the 1" foam board. That stuff ain't cheap....



I agree with him as well. I don't know if I did everything right, but I have a good friend that is an insulation contractor and used his advice.
I used: 2x4 walls, osb, house wrap and hardi siding. cellulose insulation in every wall and ceiling. Including the garage and porch ceilings.
i have a 2000 sq ft home with 3 catherdal ceilings and 1 trey ceiling, lots and lots of windows as well.

I am total electric and my power bill averages around $150-$160 per month. That is not bad imo.

If it was me, I would not use the board and put the savings into high grade windows.

Good luck


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## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> Well...there you go.  Key to any insulation is being air tight.  That is where spray foam excels.  But, if you can tape off every seam and keep it taped off, you'll be good.
> 
> I'd rather spend on the 1" foam board than try and figure out how every door jam/window is going to set in a 6" stud.
> 
> Let me ask this...is it going to be 4 side brick?




No brick. It will be stained Hardy board. I want the look of wood siding. Brick is nice but not for me.


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## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

Duff said:


> I agree with him as well. I don't know if I did everything right, but I have a good friend that is an insulation contractor and used his advice.
> I used: 2x4 walls, osb, house wrap and hardi siding. cellulose insulation in every wall and ceiling. Including the garage and porch ceilings.
> i have a 2000 sq ft home with 3 catherdal ceilings and 1 trey ceiling, lots and lots of windows as well.
> 
> ...



Ok. My house is going to be 2750 Sq ft. with 1 cathedral ceiling and 9 ft. ceiling downstairs. The insulating contractor told me of a home he just did in South Ga, that was 7200 sq ft. with a light bill of 150.00 per month. After he said that,  it was hard for me to believe much else of what he said. But, I guess anything is possible....I will be all electric as well.


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## skiff23 (Feb 25, 2015)

I like the spray foam . It seeks out the cracks and seals them. Cellulose is going to settle. 1 " of foam equals R 10. It is expensive but I would do it. A 2x4 with it will be plenty. If you deal with a good insulation contractor who knows , they can show you it is suppose to cut you HVAC tonnage in half. That is what has been sold to me on several jobs. I know when we go in an attic that has been sprayed , it is well worth it .


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## NE GA Pappy (Feb 25, 2015)

I built my house 30 years ago and went with 2 x 6 walls.  I have paper backed fiberglass insulation. When I was building my house, I cut 2x6 x 16ft down to stud length.  It was actually a little cheaper than buying 2 x 4 studs. If I were building a new one today, it would be 2 x 6 with spray foam.

You have to special order the exterior doors and windows with the extended frames, but they are not that much more money.


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## jimbo4116 (Feb 25, 2015)

Built my home 30 years ago.  Built with 2x6 on 24 centers so cost was the same. Don't know if you can do that now.  But houses the same size as mine built with 2x4 exterior have power bills that run 20% above mine.  

Here is something to consider.  Insulation is the cheapest energy you can buy.  Regardless of what you pay for it today it is not going up.  Fuel/electricity on the other hand will be going up.  What ever you do get the highest R rating you can. If you are going to be in your home 30 years plus  I would go with the foam in insulation in the walls.  

Another tip if you can get nat gas go with tankless water heaters.
Mine saves me $35 to $40 per month over electric tank heater.


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## Duff (Feb 25, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> Ok. My house is going to be 2750 Sq ft. with 1 cathedral ceiling and 9 ft. ceiling downstairs. The insulating contractor told me of a home he just did in South Ga, that was 7200 sq ft. with a light bill of 150.00 per month. After he said that,  it was hard for me to believe much else of what he said. But, I guess anything is possible....I will be all electric as well.



Yea, I'm with you. I would have to see that to believe it. Even in the spring and fall. 

I can tell my bill increased 25-30 bucks per month now that I have a 5 yr old in the house. I could really see 2-3 kids increasing a power bill. For one thing, my wife and I stay home more, more washing/drying clothes, more hot water used....... I can really tell a difference.


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## jonkayak (Feb 25, 2015)

Aprox 5,000 sq' with fiberglass bats in the 2x4 walls. Cellulose in the ceiling. But before the Sheetrock was installed the insulator wanted to try something new. They lined all the walls with Reflectixs (spell? Reflective bubble wrap). Also we have 15 SEER variable speed heat pumps and out first full months bill was $170.00. 

I wouldn't waste the money on 2x6 framing. If it had been in our budget I would have spray foamed it all or at least the attic. If air tight is the goal then spray foam is the only way to go. I think it's something like 70%of you energy is lost through the attic and very little through the walls. That's why we did fiberglass bats in the walls. Also don't forget to spend a few dollars upgrading the HVAC system to a higher SEER (not higher tonnage).


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## OmenHonkey (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks to everyone's input. Some have 2x6 some have 2x4. I guess it's just preference and builders that make the difference. I sincerely appreciate the input though. I should pick up the final plans today and he told me he could change 2x4 or 2x6 easily. So I just called and it's gonna be a 2x4. Structurally there is minimal difference. Financially going with 2x6 everything is going to cost more. Doors, windows, and insulation. I'll use 2x4, Spray foam, OSB, house wrap, DOW blue board 1" thick and then the siding. I got a PM from a fella that said he used cellulose and the dust in his house is terrible. And I never thought about it but in my remodeled house I used cellulose and the dust is awful in my house too. So spray foam it is.


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## Flash (Feb 25, 2015)

Look at Doug Rye's  video's on youtube.


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## gobbleinwoods (Feb 25, 2015)

If you go with 2X4 and add the 1" foam you are going to have to deal with extended door and window frames.   I built 5 years ago and chose the 2X6 and house wrap with fiberglass insulation.  I have been pleased.


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## tree cutter 08 (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm in the same boat. Our old house was 2x4 walls and fiberglass insulation. Always said if I build again it will be 2x6. Well here we go and I'm still back and forth. I'm leaning 2x4 with spray foam insulation everywhere. But insulation is the best money you can spend period in my opinion.


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## The Longhunter (Feb 25, 2015)

Talk to someone about staggered 2 X 4 studs.  You can get the same insulation value as 2 X 6 with less cost.


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## jonkayak (Feb 25, 2015)

I think that blue board will give you issues. The main one being it will effect your door and window openings. Instead spend the money on a quality house wrap. Not all house wraps are equal. A high quality wrap w/taped seams and properly installed will offer better protection then blue board. Also with spray foam I just can't see it being anything but a head ach and total waste of good money. One thing to do inside is to caulk all seems and joints in the framing.  Like where the bottom plate meets the flooring and around corners, headers, ext.... If you have you a good insulator then they should take care of it.


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## bassboy1 (Feb 25, 2015)

If it's going to be your forever home, use stress skin panels.

http://www.sips.org/about/what-are-sips


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## GA native (Feb 27, 2015)

I tend to agree with your lady. Upgrading your windows would be more cost effective.


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## 1gr8bldr (Feb 28, 2015)

If you study "heat loss and gain", you will see that 2x6 is a joke. Even "energy star" houses do not use 2x6.  Your windows are your weak link. I used to study this. But before the internet. You may be able to google heat loss and gain. But, be careful, the net is full of opinions not backed by experience.  The foam only goes in my "clip" areas  such as often found in a bonus room. Only because I do not lose headspace with the foam by having to furr down.


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## gunnurse (Mar 2, 2015)

Wild card time... What does your local building code require. Some areas require 2x6's. 

As for Doug Rye, if you build by his standards, he "guarantees" to pay your utility bill if it exceeds a certain amount. This deal includes a geothermal heat pump. If this is indeed a forever home site, you cannot over invest. I wish I would have taken more control over my homebuilder during the construction of my "spec" home.


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## mguthrie (Mar 4, 2015)

You won't go wrong with spray foam and 2x4 walls. As said before use a high quality house wrap and tape all seems. Cut an x at windows and doors and wrap inside opening,staple and cut off excess. Set windows and doors and use a tape made for this purpose. Upgrade your windows AND doors. Don't worry about making it to air tight. A house needs to "breath".


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

*Here are my plans.*

For your viewing pleasure! Let me know what ya'll think. I know everyone has an opinion and I have spent years planning and thinking about this house. I realize I have no extra storage space in the house really but I have a 60x80 shop that is already built, insulated  and ready for whatever I want to do with it. So in my mind storage is a moot point. I don't think I like the master bath very much and I am still playing with that some. If you see anything offer me your suggestions!! Please!!!


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## Duff (Mar 5, 2015)

I like it. Large rooms and very little wasted space.

I would definetly install a door to seperate the laundy room and kitchen and probably a bi fold or pocket door to seperate the laundy and hall.

I might do away with the peninsula in the kitchen and put the range in an island in front of the sink. You would have a huge living area if you could find a way to incorpate the columns under the load bearing wall. If not, you may could use some of that extra space for a 1/2 bath adjecent to the living room.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Looks good!!


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## Duff (Mar 5, 2015)

Oh yea, find a way for more closet in the down stairs bedroom. Even if you don't plan on using it.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> For your viewing pleasure! Let me know what ya'll think. I know everyone has an opinion and I have spent years planning and thinking about this house. I realize I have no extra storage space in the house really but I have a 60x80 shop that is already built, insulated  and ready for whatever I want to do with it. So in my mind storage is a moot point. I don't think I like the master bath very much and I am still playing with that some. If you see anything offer me your suggestions!! Please!!!


Looks good, vaulting the dormer ceiling as drawn makes it very hard to frame, support the load. You will need double rafters each side of the dormer with a beam the width of the dormer hanging on hangers that will carry the rafters. Support is good this way.... but once you vault it, the beam has to be moved to the highest point of the vault and the valleys added in without good support. This is hard to explain. If needed I could draw a pic.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

Is your loft an open rail, half wall or a solid wall?


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

I love porches, but they are expensive, as much or more as bedroom footage. You got lots  of porch there. They are beautiful. One of the local lending institutions in my area only appraise homes for their heated square foot. Which amounts to the cost to debt ratio being unfavorably very high in these cases.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

The loft wall is solid (So I can hang my trophies on) to all that enter the front door and it will be sided with old barn wood. I have an ace in the hole with the cost of the porch. The land typically sells for about 20k per acre I got 2 acres for free. So I have a jump on the equity already. My local building supply owner off the cuff stated that the 8 ft porch would cost me 80 K but, I don't see it.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Duff said:


> I like it. Large rooms and very little wasted space.
> 
> I would definetly install a door to seperate the laundy room and kitchen and probably a bi fold or pocket door to seperate the laundy and hall.
> 
> ...



I drew the peninsula in my original drawings. That was a must have for me. I enjoy cooking and entertaining. I wanted anyone that was in the kitchen cooking to be able to still be involved in what's going on in the great room. I love the look of it too!! But, thanks for your thoughts and input Duff.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Also 1gr8bldr, there is no dormer over the great room. Only in the 2 upstairs bedrooms. (The girls rooms) They wanted reading nooks.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Here is a funny drawing I did on Paint at work yesterday. It's elementary in quality but maybe will show the look i'm trying to achieve.


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## Duff (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> I drew the peninsula in my original drawings. That was a must have for me. I enjoy cooking and entertaining. I wanted anyone that was in the kitchen cooking to be able to still be involved in what's going on in the great room. I love the look of it too!! But, thanks for your thoughts and input Duff.





Sounds like you have thought it out . Hope you enjoy it

I like the porches also!!!


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> Also 1gr8bldr, there is no dormer over the great room. Only in the 2 upstairs bedrooms. (The girls rooms) They wanted reading nooks.


I was referring to the dashed line, typical of a vault in the two bedroom dormers


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

Since your porch wraps all the way around, your windows will typically be restricted in height because of roof climb. This usually causes an "egress" issue. Of the windows I like to use, A 2'8x5'2 or 3'0x4'6 or 3'4x 4'2 is the minimum to pass code here in NC.

Egress has to do with entry or exit involving such as a fire, for all bedrooms. Most window manufactures have their windows marked or highlighted as egress in their window size charts


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

1gr8bldr said:


> I was referring to the dashed line, typical of a vault in the two bedroom dormers



Oh. I misunderstood you. Having the solid wall on the loft will help alot with supporting the roof weight or at least that's my thoughts, but that has nothing to do with the dormers you mentioned. And I have no clue as to what your explaining either. lol . I do have a question regarding the beam across the great room. How does one go about determining whether this large old barn beam I have is substantial enough. It's going to be exposed beam and I really want this to work out but the house needs to be structurally sound before I worry about looks.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

There is also a max height that the window sill can be lifted to clear the porch roof. I don't recall what that measurement is


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

So would a flat roof dormer be easier to frame? It would probably look weird though.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

If you use the post as drawn, you can use a standard 2x beam such as a double or trip 2x10 in the floor system. Your beam will not be able to be considered as load bearing. Although it is likely strong, it will have to go under the 2x beam or microlam


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> So would a flat roof dormer be easier to frame? It would probably look weird though.


Your plan is drawn with a dashed line in the dormer which in architectural  terms means a vault ceiling. But it looks like that may have not been your intent. A flat ceiling, picthed roof dormer is what you need for best structural


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Ahh man. That's a buzzkiller. I was really hoping to bring life back into that awesome beam.. Oh well it will still be pretty, that is if I can physically get it in there. I had plans on using Kiln dried cypress trees as the posts. I got some I hoarded awhile back from some dark water swamps. Of course where I live we just started having building inspections not long ago, so our code here is probably more relaxed than alot of places.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

over the washer and dryer is a great place for an overhead wall cabinet


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Next question. When I start building do you want to come fishing or hunting? LOL.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> Ahh man. That's a buzzkiller. I was really hoping to bring life back into that awesome beam.. Oh well it will still be pretty, that is if I can physically get it in there. I had plans on using Kiln dried cypress trees as the posts. I got some I hoarded awhile back from some dark water swamps. Of course where I live we just started having building inspections not long ago, so our code here is probably more relaxed than alot of places.


sounds cool looking. If you had an engineer look at it, he may put his stamp on it overriding the inspection dept.... but they never will do just a beam, you would then have to pay for them to approve the entire house, all it's structural, including the footing


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> Next question. When I start building do you want to come fishing or hunting? LOL.


LOL, wish I were closer. I love building as much as hunting and fishing.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

1gr8bldr said:


> LOL, wish I were closer. I love building as much as hunting and fishing.



I got just the place for you to come hangout. I'm restoring a Bronco, planning/building a house, 65 head of cows, about 6 stocked ponds and around 600 acres to hunt or ride around and drink beer and shoot stuff. Not in that order necessarily. LOL. Thanks for all your help and input it's very helpful!!


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

My neighbor where I am building says he will try to determine if the beam is sufficient enough or not. He has 2 engineering degrees so maybe he can figure it out for me. I will buy him a 12 pack and discuss it and let ya know the outcome. I may try to get pics of the old barn as I dismantle it as well as the beams and start a thread somewhere on the forum when I start with everything involving the house.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> I got just the place for you to come hangout. I'm restoring a Bronco, planning/building a house, 65 head of cows, about 6 stocked ponds and around 600 acres to hunt or ride around and drink beer and shoot stuff. Not in that order necessarily. LOL. Thanks for all your help and input it's very helpful!!


Glad to help.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 5, 2015)

OmenHonkey said:


> My neighbor where I am building says he will try to determine if the beam is sufficient enough or not. He has 2 engineering degrees so maybe he can figure it out for me. I will buy him a 12 pack and discuss it and let ya know the outcome. I may try to get pics of the old barn as I dismantle it as well as the beams and start a thread somewhere on the forum when I start with everything involving the house.


It would not take much for the beam considering the two post, but the inspection dept will not guesstimate. What they will look for is a "letter" from an engineer that is "stamped" with his seal. That seal meaning he assumes all responsibility [if the beam fails]. This in turn relieves the inspection dept from any liability


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 5, 2015)

Gotcha!! I was thinking the same thing with the span and the added posts. BTW, The Inspector works for me part-time. It's a small world...But, he has a job to do and I respect that.


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## tree cutter 08 (Mar 5, 2015)

The house were going to build is real similar. Talked to a engineer to size some beams since we're doing some timber framing mixed with regular framing. In fine print on his contract, pretty much said they will take zero liability if beams fail. County wants a letter stamped but the engineers say their not going to be responsible either. So I stepped up to 8 x12 beams and 8x8 post. I'm going to just build it and see what happens. If the county raises Cain I might just open the wall up so I can pull a dozer in the living room and see what they say.


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## OmenHonkey (Mar 6, 2015)

tree cutter 08 said:


> The house were going to build is real similar. Talked to a engineer to size some beams since we're doing some timber framing mixed with regular framing. In fine print on his contract, pretty much said they will take zero liability if beams fail. County wants a letter stamped but the engineers say their not going to be responsible either. So I stepped up to 8 x12 beams and 8x8 post. I'm going to just build it and see what happens. If the county raises Cain I might just open the wall up so I can pull a dozer in the living room and see what they say.


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