# Would like to start hunting with a Muzzleloader.



## rugerfan (Dec 5, 2011)

So whats the good equipment for a Newbie that doesn't have alot of money to spend. 

Would prefer a muzzleloading rifle that is inexpensive, accurate and somewhat easy to clean. 

Any advice would be great. 

Thanks


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## icdedturkes (Dec 6, 2011)

For the money a CVA Wolf cannot be beat for the money.. For 2011 they feature a hand turn breech which makes spit patching between shots easy.. 

I have spent considerable range time with a Wolf and find they are a very accurate muzzleloader.. If you feel as if you do not want to spit patch between shots and want a cleaner powder look at Black Horn 209.. 

Do not skimp on bullets.. Ignore the SST/Shockwaves and Powerbelts and either find you some Barnes Expanders if your shots are 100 +- or Barnes TMZ if you want to stretch your range.


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## hambone76 (Dec 6, 2011)

X2 on the CVA. Awesome guns, customer service located in Ga, accurate and easy to clean. 

However, I disagree on the bullets. I have killed 12 deer with Powerbelt Bullets since switching to them. ALL of them but one dropped in their tracks after being shot with 175 & 195 grain Power Belts from my .45 cal. They can't tell the difference and neither will you. My .45 cal Optima Elite groups Powerbelts @100 yards just as tight as my .270 Win. 
I bought some of the Shockwaves to punch paper with and found that they do not load easily. Love the Powerbelts. I have heard nothing but good things about the Blackhorn 209 powder. I will probably switch to it after I use my 777 up. That is merely MHO in regards to the bullets and you will get many opinions which will vary.


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## icdedturkes (Dec 6, 2011)

hambone76 said:


> X2 on the CVA. Awesome guns, customer service located in Ga, accurate and easy to clean.
> 
> However, I disagree on the bullets. I have killed 12 deer with Powerbelt Bullets since switching to them. ALL of them but one dropped in their tracks after being shot with 175 & 195 grain Power Belts from my .45 cal. They can't tell the difference and neither will you. My .45 cal Optima Elite groups Powerbelts @100 yards just as tight as my .270 Win.
> I bought some of the Shockwaves to punch paper with and found that they do not load easily. Love the Powerbelts. I have heard nothing but good things about the Blackhorn 209 powder. That is merely MHO and you will get many opinions which will vary.


I might do nothing to convince you, but there is no worse bullet in terms of terminal performance than a powerbelt.. The internet forums are loaded with horror stories of these bullets.. I shot a few deer with them when they come to market and never experienced a pass through due to over expansion at close range. 

You are very fortunate that you have been able to pile all but one deer as powerbelts are known for their inability to pass through an animal.. Blood trails are typically horrible. 

I hope that you never experience a lost animal, but a powerbelt is nothing more than a timebomb waiting to go off. Folks that have the "it works for me" attitude, if they shoot enough deer it will "eventually not work for them"

Here is some reading to get you started

http://www.chuckhawks.com/powerbelt_bullets.htm

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402123


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## Nicodemus (Dec 6, 2011)

rugerfan said:


> So whats the good equipment for a Newbie that doesn't have alot of money to spend.
> 
> Would prefer a muzzleloading rifle that is inexpensive, accurate and somewhat easy to clean.
> 
> ...





Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 50 caliber percussion.


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## Supercracker (Dec 6, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 50 caliber percussion.



what he said..... X2


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## Headsortails (Dec 6, 2011)

I second the CVA Wolf. I just bought one. It is a 
pleasure to shoot and accurate.


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## rugerfan (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for all the suggestions, 

So what is "spit" patching????


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## icdedturkes (Dec 6, 2011)

rugerfan said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions,
> 
> So what is "spit" patching????


Spit patching is a old term referencing spitting on a patch and running through between shots.. 

Albeit some still spit most opt to use a muzzy bore cleaner or window cleaner with ammonia between shots followed by a dry patch as their spit patch.. 

Even modern BP substitutes are dirty except BH 209 and a spit patch between shots adds consistency and thus accuracy.


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## LOVEMYLABXS (Dec 6, 2011)

There sure are a  lot that are easier to clean but none like the HAWKINS that'll give you the feel of the old days  No scope no sabot slugs just old fashion hunting . I've had my T/C Hawkins for over 30 years and I'll never get rid of it


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## hambone76 (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for the info icdedturkes. Half of my deer kills have been from point blank to 50 yards. The other half were from fifty to one hundred. One wasn't a pass through because it was literally straight down into the spine from 5 yards. The shots on broadside deer resulted in pass throughs with massive damage/cavitation. The lungs would pour out during field dressing. All three of the deer that I shot this year were inside 35 yards and all three were pass throughs with the 175's. All three fell and did the Curly Shuffle. I haven't found any evidence of fragmentation to indicate that the bullets aren't performing correctly. I wonder why others are having so many issues with them?


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## icdedturkes (Dec 6, 2011)

hambone76 said:


> Thanks for the info icdedturkes. Half of my deer kills have been from point blank to 50 yards. The other half were from fifty to one hundred. One wasn't a pass through because it was literally straight down into the spine from 5 yards. The shots on broadside deer resulted in pass throughs with massive damage/cavitation. The lungs would pour out during field dressing. All three of the deer that I shot this year were inside 35 yards and all three were pass throughs with the 175's. All three fell and did the Curly Shuffle. I haven't found any evidence of fragmentation to indicate that the bullets aren't performing correctly. I wonder why others are having so many issues with them?


 I know you are happy and you should be.. But there are alot of negative feedback on that bullet.. If you choose to shoot them, I truly hope you never have a negative experience.. If you do, consider you have been warned.. 

Personally i have had worse luck with TC Shockwaves/SST same bullet.. Granted I have shot way more deer with them.. But the jacket is not bonded to the core and thus the core explodes resulting in no penetration due to no weight retention.. 

To me Barnes TMZ are the ultimate bullet.. Its a no fail design with 100 percent weight retention.. Rarely if ever will you find a barnes bullet inside an animal.. Most always pass through. 

You cite ease of loading as a reason to shoot powerbelts.. But in reality one should shoot the bullet that can just muster to load as it provides a better gas seal and thus consistency..


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 6, 2011)

Hambone what sort of load do you use?

I ask because it seems to me that the guys having issues with the powerbelts are using tons of powder 100 to 150 grains.. and the guys who swear by them are using under 100 grain loads. 

Rugerfan I would have to agree with NIC. You wont go wrong with a Great Plains Rifle.


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## Supercracker (Dec 7, 2011)

Try it primitive. You'll love it.


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## hambone76 (Dec 7, 2011)

tv_racin_fan said:


> Hambone what sort of load do you use?
> 
> I ask because it seems to me that the guys having issues with the powerbelts are using tons of powder 100 to 150 grains.. and the guys who swear by them are using under 100 grain loads.
> 
> Rugerfan I would have to agree with NIC. You wont go wrong with a Great Plains Rifle.



I am using 150 grain loads of 777. My barrell is a 28",
209 ignition, of course.


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 7, 2011)

LOL, well that will surely get the job done.

Still it seems that most guys who have issue with powerbelts are using "magnum" loads.


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