# felling trees near house, using snatch block



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

need advice tips on safely felling some trees near the back of the garage. Its time for them to come down, they dump acorns and leaves all over the house in the fall and attract squirells and rodents up to the back deck when theyre dropping mast. Plus, I want them for the firewood, 2 oaks, and they knock out 3 hours of morning sun on my garden spot in the summer. I can winch and pull them away from the house out into the yard with a block and come-a-long and might be able to get a truck on the pulling end. They are about 50 ft tall and 15 to  18 inches thick. At what height do I need to notch the cut on the backside to get them to lean to the winching direction. Ive limbed all limbs off to the notches, y crotch of both trees. Im going to climb a Summit Climber up to the crotches and anchor the pull rope there, at 2/3 the height of the tree. They need to come down and Im not paying to have a tree that is this size removed. Advice/ tips are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 17, 2013)

Comfortable, safe cutting height at 3 to 4 ft agl. One thing though, you put the notch in the front of the tree in the direction you want to fell the tree, not the back, then make the felling cut on a slight diagonal down towards that back of the notch to help prevent the tree from changing it's mind. It's called a hinge cut.


----------



## Gaducker (Dec 17, 2013)

They need to come down and Im not paying to have a tree that is this size removed...


DO you know how to swing a hammer??


I think if you need advice on cutting down 50 ft trees you may be better off leaving them alone or paying someone to do for you. 

If you can climb with a climber the go up as far as you can, tie your self in tight and top it out, But be warned you ARE going for a ride.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Comfortable, safe cutting height at 3 to 4 ft agl. One thing though, you put the notch in the front of the tree in the direction you want to fell the tree, not the back, then make the felling cut on a slight diagonal down towards that back of the notch to help prevent the tree from changing it's mind. It's called a hinge cut.



thanks man, that does seem logical, thats why I asked. Believe I can get it done, will have plenty of help on hand, timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 17, 2013)

the HEED! said:


> thanks man, that does seem logical, thats why I asked. Believe I can get it done, will have plenty of help on hand, timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!


Try and get your ropes at a minimum 2/3's up the tree, around 30 ft. or a little better up the tree. Make sure your cut is exactly parallel with the felling notch (not horizontally, but the chain in alignment) otherwise the tree can jump the notch prematurely and twist in the direction of the fattest part of the cut you have left. That makes for a bad day usually. 

DO NOT stand directly behind the tree once it initially pops (jumps the notch) because if it is going to split (widow maker) this is when it will happen, and you don't need a few tons of a giant tree splinter coming through your chest. 

The advice to have them at least dropped by a licensed pro has several advantages. #1 - it's much safer for you. #2 - they will be insured to cover any material loss should they make a mistake, which is very highly unlikely and #3 - it isn't as expensive as having them cut up the trees and grind and haul it off. They would merely be falling them. An exercise that will take you a lot longer than you think will take them a relatively short time and you can spend your efforts in the cutting and splitting instead.


----------



## Nicodemus (Dec 17, 2013)

Once that tree starts to go, it`s all over but the cryin`.  

Due to the proximity to a lot of valuable stuff, I would strongly suggest that you hire a professional.


----------



## Milkman (Dec 17, 2013)

Agree with above, Pay a tree service to drop them and you can work  them up as you have time.   If you saw one down on your house I bet your homeowners insurance will not give you good news.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

Miguel, just  watched quite a few videos on you tube explaining the dynamics of the hinge and back cuts. With the ropes and cutting it correctly Im sure I can fell these trees out into the yard, they have plenty of place to fall across the garden spot and with the ropes and hinge cut theyve seen their last fall. I hate it but its time and it will benefit the garden yield greatly and thousands less leaves in the gutters and on the deck. thanks for steering me right on how to steer a tree. They gotta go, I'll log it and post it in pics and follow up with this thread, hopefully it will be the next few days here.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

Nic, I hear ya and if these were monster trees I wouldnt entertain it at all. But they are do it yourselfable and I can winch them away from the garage and make the cut to follow the direction of the pull.


----------



## The Original Rooster (Dec 17, 2013)

the HEED! said:


> Miguel, just  watched quite a few videos on you tube explaining the dynamics of the hinge and back cuts. With the ropes and cutting it correctly Im sure I can fell these trees out into the yard, they have plenty of place to fall across the garden spot and with the ropes and hinge cut theyve seen their last fall. I hate it but its time and it will benefit the garden yield greatly and thousands less leaves in the gutters and on the deck. thanks for steering me right on how to steer a tree. They gotta go, I'll log it and post it in pics and follow up with this thread, hopefully it will be the next few days here.



We did 5 or 6 very large pines in my yard a few years back and I'm here to tell you. TAKE YOUR TIME AND TRIPLE CHECK EVERYTHING EVERYTIME ON EVERY TREE. It's a very sick feeling to have your snatch block slip loose off the chain right when the tree starts to fall and you realize you have no control over it anymore. I'd even recommend using locks of some kind to make sure no chain ever comes loose. Best of luck!


----------



## 7Mag Hunter (Dec 17, 2013)

Need before and after pics........

Sounds like you got it covered.....


----------



## deadend (Dec 17, 2013)

Make your undercut (directional notch)1/3 of the way into the tree and DO NOT over cut the diagonal or level cuts as that will make a Dutchman and defeat the purpose of the hinge.  Make your back cut perfectly level about 1" above the apex of the undercut and set a wedge in the back cut.  Leave about 1.5" of holding wood on that size tree.  Don't put a ton of pressure on the pull line as you can barber chair the tree (bad juju) before you get the hinge set.  Pm me if you have any other ?'s or need to call for advice.  I've been cutting for 20yrs and also teach climbing and felling.  I'm in Marietta if you get in a bind.  Be safe.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

if i climb to the crotches I can anchor ropes at 30 plus feet from a climbing stand. that would leave canopy above in the top 20 feet and the ropes at 2/3 the height of the tree. if I cut with the notch a on the side the trees are being led, is there any direction that the tree will go after the back cut engages the hinge than the only way it feasibly will fall due to the cut with ropes pulling it?  My buddy has whacked quite a few larger trees in his yard with ropes and the notch cut, with a good plan and escape route with lines on the tree, what do I need to look out for in this method?


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 17, 2013)

the HEED! said:


> if i climb to the crotches I can anchor ropes at 30 plus feet from a climbing stand. that would leave canopy above in the top 20 feet and the ropes at 2/3 the height of the tree. if I cut with the notch a on the side the trees are being led, is there any direction that the tree will go after the back cut engages the hinge than the only way it feasibly will fall due to the cut with ropes pulling it?  My buddy has whacked quite a few larger trees in his yard with ropes and the notch cut, with a good plan and escape route with lines on the tree, what do I need to look out for in this method?


Get in touch with Deadend. He'll steer you in the right direction.

OH, and make sure you wear your climbing harness and safety rope when climbing that tree with your climber. It isn't fun reading the; "Woody's members we have lost" forum when it is added to.


----------



## deadend (Dec 17, 2013)

A 20$ throw line will allow you to set ropes high from the ground.  The pull lines only serve to overcome any back lean because once the tree tips and commits to the lay the lines are slack anyway.  I rarely need more than a 3:1 mechanical advantage unless the tree is a real heavy back leaner.  You exert much leverage with a high attachment point.  I've not used a winch in years and typically a modified truckers hitch with a 1/2" rope is sufficient.  A properly constructed hinge will steer it where you want it.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Get in touch with Deadend. He'll steer you in the right direction.
> 
> OH, and make sure you wear your climbing harness and safety rope when climbing that tree with your climber. It isn't fun reading the; "Woody's members we have lost" forum when it is added to.



no doubt. I will be harnessed when climbing, thats not what Im worried about, its the tree getting a mind of its own even after a text book cut


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

deadend said:


> A 20$ throw line will allow you to set ropes high from the ground.  The pull lines only serve to overcome any back lean because once the tree tips and commits to the lay the lines are slack anyway.  I rarely need more than a 3:1 mechanical advantage unless the tree is a real heavy back leaner.  You exert much leverage with a high attachment point.  I've not used a winch in years and typically a modified truckers hitch with a 1/2" rope is sufficient.  A properly constructed hinge will steer it where you want it.



thats what im studying right now, the notch, the canopies of the trees lean out towards the house, limbs reaching to the light and give me much concern, I feel confident that with a rope to offset that back lean and some big boys on the end it will be overcome with the cut being right.

Also there are some pines adjacent to the path I want them to lay, as it sits they would be a anchor or leverage point to pull even morer away from falling back and to the left, is this a good idea to use them or will a few big ropes leading it to the fall path suffice, Im studying this with much enthusiasm as you only get one crack at it!


----------



## deadend (Dec 17, 2013)

As long as the hinge is sound (no defects in the wood or errant saw cuts) they are very predictable.  Heavy side leaners can sometimes get squirrely if you don't adjust the hinge accordingly but it doesn't sound like that's gonna be a problem.

Hinges steer trees, ropes don't.

The hinge should be 10% of the tree's diameter in thickness and 80% of the tree's diameter in width.


----------



## deadend (Dec 17, 2013)

Tim Ard has a good site with lots of info.

http://www.forestapps.com/tips/tips.htm


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

thanks for all the advice. I am pretty confident as these arent gigantic trees, I wouldnt attempt it with a mammoth tree but these are just on this side of bigger than I would attempt, I will follow up, thnaks again.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

deadend said:


> Tim Ard has a good site with lots of info.
> 
> http://www.forestapps.com/tips/tips.htm



been watching him, between him and your advice if I drop these trees on myself or the house then I will be dead or wish I was, all joking aside, I will take my time.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

Folks, Im gonna post up some photos of these trees in the relation to the house/deck. I was outside studying them in the moonlight. Wanna let some experienced tree fellers look the pics over before I attempt to cut them down.


----------



## deadend (Dec 17, 2013)

Bring it!  

Additionally, are you aware of the sights on your saw to help you set up the lay?  They've all got 'em but many aren't aware.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 17, 2013)

the HEED! said:


> Folks, Im gonna post up some photos of these trees in the relation to the house/deck. I was outside studying them in the moonlight. Wanna let some experienced tree fellers look the pics over before I attempt to cut them down.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 17, 2013)

I will post pics in the morning, I want all the ts crossed before I drop them, I can do it just want some expert opinion before I cut them.


----------



## jimbo4116 (Dec 18, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> Once that tree starts to go, it`s all over but the cryin`.
> 
> Due to the proximity to a lot of valuable stuff, I would strongly suggest that you hire a professional.



Yep! Make sure if you are going to winch on it you have you vehicle far enough away.  That plus even a 18 inch 50ft. oak will have a lot of weight. If it decides to fall left or right it will jerk your vehicle around.  You need to have the trunk anchored by a second line away from the winch line.

As said above the hinge cut is most important in directing the tree. If you are not familiar with making one you should not attempt.  Cut the notch to deep then the tree can slide down when you make the back cut if you make it to steep. Don't make it steep enough and the weight of the tree can bring the tree back against you.  If it does you may not have time to get out of the way.

Above all else don't attempt to top out the tree yourself, period.

Hire someone to fell the trees.


----------



## Nicodemus (Dec 18, 2013)

Another thing. Even after that tree is on the ground, it is still a dangerous thing and a trap. Don`t let it roll on you as you limb it. Make sure you have a clean path to escape if it does roll.


----------



## oops1 (Dec 18, 2013)

I almost took my dads shop out trying what you're about to attempt. Once the winch tension was out..the weight of all the top branches took the tree way left of my notch cut. Those branches missed his shop by about 6". This tree was bigger than what you're talking about but it's something else to consider. Good luck.


----------



## deadend (Dec 18, 2013)

jimbo4116 said:


> Yep! Make sure if you are going to winch on it you have you vehicle far enough away.  That plus even a 18 inch 50ft. oak will have a lot of weight. If it decides to fall left or right it will jerk your vehicle around.  You need to have the trunk anchored by a second line away from the winch line.
> 
> As said above the hinge cut is most important in directing the tree. If you are not familiar with making one you should not attempt.  Cut the notch to deep then the tree can slide down when you make the back cut if you make it to steep. Don't make it steep enough and the weight of the tree can bring the tree back against you.  If it does you may not have time to get out of the way.
> 
> ...



Trees typically don't decide for themselves where to fall but rather fall in response to the actions you've undertaken. Many trees are felled improperly by using winches and not accounting for the forces imparted. Simple physics and geometry in addition to embracing Newton's 3rd law will yield results and often.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 18, 2013)

deadend said:


> Trees typically don't decide for themselves where to fall but rather fall in response to the actions you've undertaken. Many trees are felled improperly by using winches and not accounting for the forces imparted. Simple physics and geometry in addition to embracing Newton's 3rd law will yield results and often.


There's always that one in a million though, and Murphy's Law says with two oaks to be cut down by someone that doesn't do it for a living, one of those oaks will qualify....


----------



## Bpruitt (Dec 18, 2013)

If you are watching tree falling videos and the tree is leaning toward the house,do not stick a saw to it.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 18, 2013)

You have been given some good advice, what you do with it is up to you. Deadend has given some particularly good advice. The hinge is everything, and felling wedges are also just as important or more so than that rope. I have been cutting trees for decades, have cut thousands of them, and I still don't like cutting trees that lean over anything. That's with decades of experience, and access to good equipment and a big, strong 4wd backhoe. Too many things can go wrong, like a hollow spot in the center that you can't see that ruins your hinge, an errant gust of wind at the wrong time, or any number of things. In a situation like that, I would usually use a bucket truck to take that sucker down to a 20' bare trunk and then fell it. 

Trust me, an 18" diameter, 50' tree is plenty big enough to kill you and/or destroy a building. Have you ever seen someone you know flattened by a tree? I have. It's not good, and you never quit seeing it.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 18, 2013)

im just worried about the lean away from the fall direction, got plenty of room for it to fall in just not the way its leaning. Gotta guy who used to limb, fell, and top for GA Power, might see if he'll come by and supervise.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 18, 2013)

*trees*

here they are, closest to house side by side............


----------



## Bpruitt (Dec 18, 2013)

I wish you the best.I can see all kinds of bad outcomes and only one good one.


----------



## deadend (Dec 18, 2013)

No problema. Don't get more straightforward than that.


----------



## crappiedex (Dec 18, 2013)

It may look different in person. Looks like there are to many limbs on those and the surrounfing trees for a clean drop. If they get hung, you have a serious problem.  Just by the pics they should be limbed and topped. 

Most all company's give free estimates. Price it just to put it on the ground. If you need any recommendations pm me.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove (Dec 19, 2013)

One of my buds is a UGA professor and the cheapest man I know.  His does all his own car work, and anything else he can do himself to save a buck.  He'd probably remove his own appendix if it came down to it.

Even he hired a pro to do work like this.  No offense, but cutting down trees that size that close to your house is not a DIY project.

Rant off - If you do it yourself, good luck and be careful!


----------



## cuda67bnl (Dec 19, 2013)

A tree guy won't just drop those. They'll take em down piece by piece from the top. Definitely get some estimates, but I'd wager you're looking at close to a grand based on some trees I've seen cut by the pros.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Dec 19, 2013)

I wouldn't pay anymore than 250$ a piece!


----------



## Luke0927 (Dec 19, 2013)

Get you a backhoe dig'm up front and push'm over! That's what I do on our place with some of the larger ones I haven't felt comfortable with but not close to house and plenty of room. Good luck be safe


----------



## bml (Dec 19, 2013)

You have been given lots of good advice in this thread, the best of which is to hire a professional. It wont be outrageous for them to drop the trees, and then you can limb them and saw it up for firewood at your convenience. This is NOT something to do after staying at a Holiday Inn Express for a night, or watching a few YouTube videos. There is a LOT that can go wrong here that you cant count on. Somethings only experience will teach you. 

The place to learn how to fell trees is away from people, pets and structures, not next to your house. If you insist on this, please make sure the house is empty, and any observers are a considerable distance away. 

Think about it this way, you are basically gambling with your family's security (Their home) over a few hundred dollars. Are you financially able to make the repairs to your house if the insurance wont cover a disaster related to felling the tree yourself? Just something to consider...


----------



## deadend (Dec 19, 2013)

If you end up not doing it in the next week or two let me know and I'll come over and we'll have a treecuttin' class no charge.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 19, 2013)

deadend said:


> If you end up not doing it in the next week or two let me know and I'll come over and we'll have a treecuttin' class no charge.




if youve got the time and a chance to drop by I can definitely put it off. Like to have your eyes on it and the place of the cuts and rope. I can throw some burgers on and ice some beers down for a quick snack after they hit the dirt.


----------



## deadend (Dec 19, 2013)

10-4 get with me after the 1st.


----------



## donald-f (Dec 20, 2013)

They are a little close to the house so if one hangs up in another tree it could kick back and cause a lot of damage to the house.


----------



## the HEED! (Dec 20, 2013)

deadend said:


> 10-4 get with me after the 1st.



definitely, I will get with ya after New Years, Happy Holidays to you and your family.


----------



## Buckbuster (Dec 22, 2013)

Sounds like Deadend is the way to go. I grind stumps for a living and I can tell you some horror stories from homeowners I have heard and seen.


----------



## deadend (Dec 22, 2013)

You want me to give him your card Harley?


----------



## Buckbuster (Dec 22, 2013)

Yes you can, be glad to help him out.


----------



## merc123 (Dec 23, 2013)

shakey gizzard said:


> I wouldn't pay anymore than 250$ a piece!



A friend of mine had a tree that had to be removed top down and it was $1200.  They didn't even use a boom truck.  Just a guy cutting piece by piece with another guy using a rope to pull the cuts down.



For the OP.  I helped my FIL take some down.  I used my climber and attached some rope and I held on while he made the cuts.  I'm guessing the cuts were wrong or something else was going on because the tree started to fall toward the house, with me holding on.  Did you know that ropes stretch, alot!? We had to get his truck down there and tie it off to the hitch.  I then had to use the truck to pull the tree over as he cut.  It isn't something I'd want to do on my own again.


----------



## rayjay (Dec 24, 2013)

A proper rope will about cost you what the professional would charge just to drop the tree. 

8 to 10" is about my limit. I use my Gator, a decent rope and a pulley block to pull the tree the direction I want it to go for any trees I need to drop.

I have had probably 15 to 20 biggish  trees dropped by a pro in the past 5 years [ app half one year and the other half a few years later ]. The cost averaged about $275 per tree with them doing all the chipping and cleanup. Money well spent.


----------



## T.P. (Dec 24, 2013)

Easy-peasy! Post pics!


----------



## shakey gizzard (Dec 24, 2013)

merc123 said:


> A friend of mine had a tree that had to be removed top down and it was $1200.  They didn't even use a boom truck.  Just a guy cutting piece by piece with another guy using a rope to pull the cuts down.
> 
> 
> 
> For the OP.  I helped my FIL take some down.  I used my climber and attached some rope and I held on while he made the cuts.  I'm guessing the cuts were wrong or something else was going on because the tree started to fall toward the house, with me holding on.  Did you know that ropes stretch, alot!? We had to get his truck down there and tie it off to the hitch.  I then had to use the truck to pull the tree over as he cut.  It isn't something I'd want to do on my own again.


I was referring particularly too the op's 2 tree's. I had a( dying/leaning over a structure) hickory removed last year that cost me 750.00. Most of the quotes were around 1000 to 1200. They swung each piece to nearby tree then lowered. No way to get a boom truck in! My hickory was 3 to 4x the size of the tree's in question.


----------

