# Gorilla and Tiger Bass



## Old Dead River (Jul 23, 2009)

http://www.strikeking.com/journal/00022/1.php


http://www.americansportfish.com/index.php

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/gallery/Descript/LargemouthBass/LargemouthBass.html

I was doing some reading on Bass (sub)species this morning. Found the strike king article initially and later the actual website of the company it's about. If you'll read carefully the strike king article says exactly the opposite of the Fishery website with regards to the tiger and gorilla bass. Fortunately my critical thinking skills are still there. LOL

For the record, the Gorilla bass is the super aggressive Northern strain? AND the Tiger Bass is the F1 hybrid of the Gorilla bass (aggressive Northern) and selectively bred Florida bass? Is that correct?

Perhaps some of the biologists and experts herein can weigh in.

p.s. i put the edu link there to serve as bedrock


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## Benito (Jul 23, 2009)

Good questions.....

I've read about these before, and it's confused me as well. My understanding has been that the "Tiger" is simply F1 bass (Standard Northern bred with Standard Florida Strain), and that "Gorilla" somehow has more Northern Strain in it - therefore, not quite as big, but more aggressive.)

However, I am NOT certain whatsoever - in fact, would love to have other's weigh in....

Simple question seems to be - what's the best, biggest, most aggressive Bass (as in "if money were no object, what would you stock a new pond with")

The more I read/learn, the more I realize the Answer to this is NOT simple......

BEN


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## Benito (Jul 23, 2009)

Here's a link from Southeast Pond Management, a fairly large stocking/management company. 

http://www.sepond.com/LMB.html

They are currently helping at my in-laws pond in Birmingham. I've spoken with one of their people while on the pond - they will be stocking the "F1" into the pond, and he referred to these as "Tiger" Bass - cross between Florida and Northern.

The pond there has had fish for 20+ years - but was originally stocked with pure Florida strain. There are some GIANTS in there (have seen during spawn, etc), but anything bigger than 2-3 pounds is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to catch! I've caught hundreds of bass from this pond - but all but 1 were 3 pounds or less (I caught a 7 pounder a few months ago, but it's the only one I've ever caught bigger than about 3....)

They recently shocked the pond - MANY bass in the 6-8 pound range, and several around 10-11 pounds. However, none bigger than 7 have been caught in about a decade. (And yes - I've tried live bait, which I normally don't like to do, and every other type of lure you can imagine, and so have my relatives. These bigguns are TOUGH to catch!)

Again, welcome any additional input from folks that no more about this. 

BEN


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## Old Dead River (Jul 23, 2009)

Benito said:


> Good questions.....
> 
> I've read about these before, and it's confused me as well. My understanding has been that the "Tiger" is simply F1 bass (Standard Northern bred with Standard Florida Strain), and that "Gorilla" somehow has more Northern Strain in it - therefore, not quite as big, but more aggressive.)
> 
> ...



howdy ben

I'm reasonably sure there website is correct. What i posted was a reinteration of that.There were some other errors in the strike king article, ways in which the author wrote the passage that made it confusing. I'm going to email strike king and make sure they're aware of  the incongruencies between their report and the actual information offered by the fisheries service. Thing through me for a loop before i had my AM coffee haha

From everything I've read the Florida strain grows larger and does so more quickly yet is less susceptible to being caught ( particularly on artificial lures), especially as it becomes older and larger. There've been posts on this board about pure Florida strain bass in Georgian ponds being pursued to little avail.  I've also read some things that suggest that the florida strain doesn't live as long as the northern strain. On the other hand, I've read something that stated that the northern strain doesn't live as long due to tolerating harsh winters etc; yet it's supposed to be more tolerant of temperature variations than its less adaptive florida relative  Evidentally there's pseudo-science aplenty on the net, even on something as earth shaking as bass biology.


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## Old Dead River (Jul 23, 2009)

Benito said:


> There are some GIANTS in there (have seen during spawn, etc), but anything bigger than 2-3 pounds is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to catch!
> BEN




yeah that's seem to be the consensus among anglers.  prior to the advent of these newer bass, e.g., gorilla and tiger, the florida strain seems to have been heavily stocked throughout the southeast strictly on the basis of its rapid maturity and large size NOT due to its status as such a "worthy advesary".  Could there be Floridian giants roaming the depths of some of the so called "non lunker" lakes of Georgia.

There's been speculation that the Perry bass was a hybrid between Northern and Florida strain. How one would ascertain such, other than from documentation of its mere size is beyond me. Especially being that said assertion was made before Babb unearthed photographic evidence of the fish.

all very interesting...


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## Grimes25 (Jul 23, 2009)

strike king screwed that up years ago. Barry Smith owner of American Sportfish interviewed them years ago and they took improper notes. 
Tradenames by American Sportfish are:
Gorilla = agressive northern strain
Tiger= F1- gorilla x selected Florida largemouth

We stock both as well as pure Florida.  We are doing some cutting edge techniques and stocking a mix of genetics in ponds.  It is all about goals. If you want ultra agressive go gorilla (northern).  If you want best of both worlds go tiger ( f1) if you want true trophy go florida. However keep in mind none of these are magic fish.  It boils down to having the pond setup with all they need including good forage base.


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## Grimes25 (Jul 23, 2009)

odr, the reaosn they suspect Perry bass was a natural integrade is dna studies showing the trail of florida and nortern genetics in waters studied.  i suspect if was pure florida but no F1 has ever reached over 16 lbs as far as I know. 

also fyi- norhtern bass live longer but only when in northern climates.  Really all largemouth bass live the same amount of growing time.  That is 10 months in Flordia 6-10 months in GA from mtns to Valdosta and 3 months in Canada.  So a bass in Canada might live 20 years where as in south GA only 10 but near the same amount of warm growing season, make sense? 

Last one... Florida bass do not grow quicker they only have the potentail to grow larger.  Why... they conserve energy and wait on food to come to them, thus as you say tough to catch when large.


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## Team3D (Jul 23, 2009)

WOW.. That some great info!  Thanks Greg and a great topic ODR!


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## Old Dead River (Jul 23, 2009)

Grimes25 said:


> odr, the reaosn they suspect Perry bass was a natural integrade is dna studies showing the trail of florida and nortern genetics in waters studied.  i suspect if was pure florida but no F1 has ever reached over 16 lbs as far as I know.
> 
> also fyi- norhtern bass live longer but only when in northern climates.  Really all largemouth bass live the same amount of growing time.  That is 10 months in Flordia 6-10 months in GA from mtns to Valdosta and 3 months in Canada.  So a bass in Canada might live 20 years where as in south GA only 10 but near the same amount of warm growing season, make sense?
> 
> Last one... Florida bass do not grow quicker they only have the potentail to grow larger.  Why... they conserve energy and wait on food to come to them, thus as you say tough to catch when large.



thanks greg!

i pick up on the growth model. very interesting.

thanks for the clarification. I was hoping an authority would step in.

p.s. could you personally discern which strain a bass is by mere photographs? I'm curious about some the make up of some waters I fish.


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## Grimes25 (Jul 23, 2009)

There are some theories about Florida bass.  An expert might be 80-90% accurate at physical appearance but for the most part you can not tell one largemouth from another.  It is funny to me the folks who claim to know it is a florida b/c it is dark or patterned, etc.  This is not true at all. 

I can tell our pure norhtern bass from others for awhile in a pond because they have a blue color to them for awhiel and exteremly short and fat. Colro might form the water they are rasied in in ILL.  However after about a year that is gone.  When stocking pure genetic bass in ponds we fin clip or tag them to make sure they do not end up being harvested by clietns with existing pond bass.


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## rockwalker (Jul 23, 2009)

I think every lake I fish has these hard to catch florida largemouth in them! 

I read in a GON articl about the Ocmulgee PFA being stocked with f1 bass and wasn't sure what that was but there is some great info in hear! Keep it coming guys!


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## Old Dead River (Jul 24, 2009)

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/gallery/Descript/LargemouthBass/LargemouthBass.html

Greg, this link i posted earlier has some information about the scales. the Flordia strain has smaller scales and more of them and it gets larger. there's also those other characteristics detailed therein. I've definitely caught some oval-esque largemouth that probably weren't Floridas but that's another can of worms. I'll be in touch about some of the specific fish I'm curious about. thanks for the help.







*Distinctive Features
The largemouth bass has a large, slightly sloping mouth. Its body is slender to robust, slightly compressed laterally, and oval in cross section. The corner of the mouth extends past the eye, hence its common name. 

The two recognized subspecies of the largemouth bass are the northern largemouth (Micropterus salmoides salmoides) and the Florida largemouth (Micropterus salmoides floridanus). 

The Florida largemouth has slightly smaller scales than the largemouth bass in relation to the size of its body. It has 69 to 73 scales along the lateral line, compared to 59 to 65 on the northern largemouth. It grows faster and reaches larger sizes in warm waters than the northern largemouth, leading to its popularity in stocking efforts across the U.S*.






Grimes25 said:


> There are some theories about Florida bass.  An expert might be 80-90% accurate at physical appearance but for the most part you can not tell one largemouth from another.  It is funny to me the folks who claim to know it is a florida b/c it is dark or patterned, etc.  This is not true at all.
> 
> I can tell our pure norhtern bass from others for awhile in a pond because they have a blue color to them for awhiel and exteremly short and fat. Colro might form the water they are rasied in in ILL.  However after about a year that is gone.  When stocking pure genetic bass in ponds we fin clip or tag them to make sure they do not end up being harvested by clietns with existing pond bass.


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## Grimes25 (Jul 24, 2009)

ODR you are 100% correct but very difficult to perform this test.  I have done it on supposedly pure Florida bass and came up with 67 scales so go figure.  

We perform DNA analysis for clients interested in what they have.  We submit livers to Texas A&M.  You need at least 30 samples.  The data will tell us pure fla pure nothern, f1 or fx.   Pretty surprised plantation in middle GA had some pure fla in it when stocked with dnr supplied supposed to be F1's.  Large creek feeding it but still surprising to see pure florida natually occuring.


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## Lightninrod (Jul 25, 2009)

Those are F1s I caught out of Ocmulgee PFA.  IMO, they have a slightly smaller mouth than the Florida strain.  They also fight quite a bit harder too.


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## Grimes25 (Jul 25, 2009)

lightn rod, the smaller mouth is a function of bass age.  Those bass are young and doing well.  Everyone likes the bass to have a big mouth but that just means it is old. Awesome fish, bet they pulled harder too, when short and fat lie that they are mean.


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## Old Dead River (Jul 25, 2009)

those are some really nice fish! very pretty indeed.



Lightninrod said:


> Those are F1s I caught out of Ocmulgee PFA.  IMO, they have a slightly smaller mouth than the Florida strain.  They also fight quite a bit harder too.


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