# Duck Dog Training



## alex_barnes (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm sure this has been posted before but I went back a few pages and didn't find too much so I'm starting a new thread. I have a 6 month old  female German Shorthaired Pointer. I want to use her as a waterfowl retriever and on dove hunts. I'm sure some of yall are wondering why I bought a gsp for waterfowl but I love the breed and they are very versatile. Anyway I'm looking for a good trainer that is not super expensive and preferably someone who has dealt with the breed but that's not a necessity.  I would like it to be in the middle to north georgia area on the west side or east alabama  but location isn't too important. Anybody that has any info that could pitch in would be greatly appreciated! Also if you have any training tips for a gsp please chime in


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## Water Swat (Mar 23, 2015)

Call Charlie Jurney. Definitely the best anywhere to make a duck dog out of a GSP. He has quit running hunt tests but is now focusing solely on making companion/gun dogs. I Watched him run a very nice GSP in retriever hunt tests in the last 2 he has run. He's trained a lot of versatile dogs.


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## OEB0630 (Mar 24, 2015)

Are ducks and doves your only hunting?  Either way, join the NAVHDA chapter and go to the monthly training session.  We work on upland as well as waterfowl retrieves, searches, etc.  Our chapter has quite a few GSP's who attend regularly.


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## Joe Overby (Mar 24, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> Call Charlie Jurney. Definitely the best anywhere to make a duck dog out of a GSP. He has quit running hunt tests but is now focusing solely on making companion/gun dogs. I Watched him run a very nice GSP in retriever hunt tests in the last 2 he has run. He's trained a lot of versatile dogs.


guess you missed the part about "not super expensive"...Charlies rates reflect his experience...and success. To the OP, good luck finding what you're looking for. With dog training, you get what you pay for...that and most of us don't do GSPs..


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## Water Swat (Mar 24, 2015)

Joe Overby said:


> guess you missed the part about "not super expensive"...Charlies rates reflect his experience...and success. To the OP, good luck finding what you're looking for. With dog training, you get what you pay for...that and most of us don't do GSPs..



No sir, I didn't see that part. 

But to the original question asker, If I had bought a GSP and wanted a duck dog (well I wouldn't have bought a GSP) but IF I did, and was going to hire a trainer, I would be driving it to Mr. Jurney. Skimp now and then pay again (even more) later to get it done right.


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## Joe Overby (Mar 24, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> No sir, I didn't see that part.
> 
> But to the original question asker, If I had bought a GSP and wanted a duck dog (well I wouldn't have bought a GSP) but IF I did, and was going to hire a trainer, I would be driving it to Mr. Jurney. Skimp now and then pay again (even more) later to get it done right.


I'm not disagreeing with you one bit. Charlie is truly gifted with them (gsps). BUT it will cost you a mortgage every month at beaverdam. Take your lumps I guess...lots more options for more typical waterfowl breeds...


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## BrownDog20886 (Mar 25, 2015)

Alex,

What have you done with her so far?  Is she bumper crazy?  My limited experience with GSHPs has led me to believe that while they take to upland work like a fish to water, you need one with a ton of drive to get it to truly retrieve to the level expected from anyone from a retriever background.  While I think I could force fetch a dang near anything and make it pick up bumpers in the yard, getting a dog that doesn't love the job to handle to, hunt up and retrieve a blind is a whole other story.  The pointers are generally more independant and don't take to the handling aspect as readily as the retrievers.

At six months of age, you need to get busy fast.  I am personally of the "jump in with both feet and train your own dog" camp.  I'd definitely rather train my own than rely on a trainer that you selected for finacial reasons.  There are lots of very good resources out there, the greatest of which is your local Hunt Test club.  I became a better trainer/handler every day that I worked with my training group.  Once you get the bug, shooting the bird is just an excuse to work the dog.

I actually read and used Charley Jurney's book and really like his style.  I especially like his force fetch technique on the table.  It takes a lot of the ugly out of the process.

Nate


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## mizzippi jb (Mar 25, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> Call Charlie Jurney. Definitely the best anywhere to make a duck dog out of a GSP. He has quit running hunt tests but is now focusing solely on making companion/gun dogs. I Watched him run a very nice GSP in retriever hunt tests in the last 2 he has run. He's trained a lot of versatile dogs.



Saw him running a GSP and a golden at Charleston HRC a couple weekends ago.  Pointer looked good...the golden not so much


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## Water Swat (Mar 25, 2015)

Yeah but that was a fluffy show golden, not a field bred Golden. If you can get a fluffy to do seasoned level work that's saying something .


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## mizzippi jb (Mar 25, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> Yeah but that was a fluffy show golden, not a field bred Golden. If you can get a fluffy to do seasoned level work that's saying something .



Well, maybe one day that fluffy will actually do seasoned work....he just signed up for a seasoned test.


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## king killer delete (Mar 26, 2015)

Just don't ever know about those goldens. I saw NAFC/FC Tobrass Cotton Run about a 300 yard blind in a stick pond at Ft Gordon and never had to take cast. He just lined that blind and it was the show breaker. The dog that came in second in that trial had 6 cast. Of course that was way back in the 80s. I think Jackie Mertens was the handler.


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## BrownDog20886 (Mar 26, 2015)

I train with some truly excellent goldens that make me feel bad about my previous general dismissal of the breed.  However, even the great ones have a way of working that is aggravating to anyone who has grown up working labs.  The dang things will line a long blind all the while boinging like a ditzy no talent airhead fetching a newspaper.  You can't question the result, but I couldn't take it.  I also hate cutting out the burs.

Nate


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## king killer delete (Mar 27, 2015)

Never trained a Golden myself but I hear that a good  hunting  or Field trial breeding can produce some very smart dogs.


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## mlandrum (Mar 27, 2015)

Joe Overby said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you one bit. Charlie is truly gifted with them (gsps). BUT it will cost you a mortgage every month at beaverdam. Take your lumps I guess...lots more options for more typical waterfowl breeds...



Hey Joe, recon I cold train him????   Of course he'd have a LOT of commands to learned fore he could hunt him!!!  I really don't charge a lot, maybe a couple bags of feed, Ole Roy of course!!!!


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## alex_barnes (Mar 29, 2015)

Guys I understand a lab would be a better choice for a waterfowl retriever.  But I do not have a lab nor am I getting one,  I have a GSP. I was just asking if anyone knew of someone around those locations that could do a good job training her and not breaking my bank. She doesn't have to be a champion,  just need her to get my birds so I don't have to. 

Browndog- she knows her basic commands and will retreive anything I throw. I've done some bumper training but I don't have hardly any time to really train her and that's the reason for this post.  I don't have time so I need someone who has time.


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## BrownDog20886 (Mar 29, 2015)

Fair enough.  I'd still suggest you hit the training days, if only to see who was running the versatility dogs on retriever tests.  They'll give you the best referrals.  Since you're not likely to be in a Mecca of versatility dog trainers, I'd look for someone who shows results across several breeds to work with a GSHP.  I wish I was close, cuz I'd volunteer to work with her simply because I would love the experience.

Nate


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## Water Swat (Mar 29, 2015)

alex_barnes said:


> Guys I understand a lab would be a better choice for a waterfowl retriever.  But I do not have a lab nor am I getting one,  I have a GSP. I was just asking if anyone knew of someone around those locations that could do a good job training her and not breaking my bank. She doesn't have to be a champion,  just need her to get my birds so I don't have to.
> 
> Browndog- she knows her basic commands and will retreive anything I throw. I've done some bumper training but I don't have hardly any time to really train her and that's the reason for this post.  I don't have time so I need someone who has time.



did someone say you should've gotten a lab? You said "good trainer" and location didn't really matter. You're not likely going to get good for "cheap". I made a good suggestion. Did you contact him for any details?


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## Joe Overby (Mar 29, 2015)

Sensitive...Swat is right. Nobody bashing your choice here...just simply laying the facts out there. There aren't many "retriever guys" that are successful with bird dogs...IMO, the NAVHDA standard isn't very high as far as water performance. That, and it's hard to get a pro who specializes in retrievers to step outside his comfort zone and experiment on a bird dog. Id call Charlie and not think twice about it.


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## alex_barnes (Mar 30, 2015)

I appreciate the help from everyone. I will contact charlie soon. He is a little further away from my region of choice but I'm sure it'd be worth it. 

Question removed by Moderation I've talked to him and he's trained a few GSP's but not for waterfowl.  He said he could do it though and would feel comfortable about it.


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## Joe Overby (Mar 30, 2015)

I know Shawn well. What would you like to know?


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## Joe Overby (Mar 30, 2015)

Killer. Why'd you delete the question? The fella is asking a legitimate question regarding information necessary to make an informed decision as to what trainer would suit his needs best??


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## king killer delete (Mar 31, 2015)

Joe Overby said:


> Killer. Why'd you delete the question? The fella is asking a legitimate question regarding information necessary to make an informed decision as to what trainer would suit his needs best??


Joe, we have to walk a fine line on certain issues.  It was a valid question that should be responded to in a PM. But it is best if we do not use names of any group of trainers , guides or any other operation when it may result a negative response. You know yourself that a person could bring you a dog or a puppy to train that will not make it as a basic meat dog and probably will not even be a decent pet. But the person that brought that dog does not want to hear that his dog is not worth the price of a good milk shake. I would not allow that individual  a chance to come on  the forum and post negative information about you or your operation as a Pro dog trainer. First because I would know that was untrue and it would also be a violation of the forum rules. Each person has a different idea about the service he received and sometimes that individuals expectations do not meet what his or her expected result of a guided hunt, gun dog training service, and any other operation.  So in the forum rules that are posted so all members can see that the GON will not and can not allow negative information to be posted in the open forum. 

Libel 
Because of the changes regarding libel laws and liability, any threads or posts made about businesses or individuals that are derogatory, accusational or suggest illegal dealings will be deleted. We cannot accept the liability of being sued for libel because you feel you were poorly dealt with in a business deal or other transaction with anybody else, regardless of if they are a member here or not. If you have such a problem, deal with it personally, but do not post about it here. Repeated violations of this rule will result in immediate termination of your membership without recourse.

Another good example of this policy is,
Critiquing Guides 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lately there have been a few threads posted with less than positive reviews of Duck Hunting guides. Because of the law regarding libel we can't allow your full throated disapprobation of any guide on the open forums.

As a work around, if you want to know about a guide post a thread asking for input on the guide. Those of you offering input on the guide can reply to the OP via PM if your review is a negative one.

Please do not post negative comments about the guide service on the open forums. We will delete those posts. What you say to each other in Private Messages is private. Capeche? 
You can give all the good information about any service you want but any negative information will be removed on any operation.

Thanks for your question, killer


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## cgrover1 (May 5, 2015)

Look up MidSouth NAVHDA chapter.  As stated previously, they have monthly training clinics.  If you get to know some of them, they go more than once a month and may be willing to work with you.  When I tested my pudelpointer, there were more GSP's than any other breed there.  The plantation there has pheasant, quail and ducks you can buy to use for training.  There are numerous ponds for duck searches.  I may be overstepping here, but if you just needed your dog to retrieve a duck or dove (not worried about blind retrieves etc.) 15 minutes a day force fetching and steadiness until you've given the fetch command wouldn't be hard.  I don't know the level of training you're looking for, but most of that can be taught in the back yard.


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## Water Swat (May 5, 2015)

what the heck is a duck search?


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## cgrover1 (May 6, 2015)

Basically, they place a dead duck somewhere unknown to the handler and dog around a large pond that has areas resembling a swamp, but also with open water.  You have to cast your dog from the heel position to the back of the lake.  He or She has to demonstrate they're willing to search for at least 10 minutes for a dead duck. They get docked for time spent on land searching.  If they find the duck, they have to return to you with the duck, and be casted again to finish the 10 minute search.  During the test, there are numerous blind retrieves, etc. as well.


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## krazybronco2 (May 6, 2015)

cgrover1 said:


> Basically, they place a dead duck somewhere unknown to the handler and dog around a large pond that has areas resembling a swamp, but also with open water.  You have to cast your dog from the heel position to the back of the lake.  He or She has to demonstrate they're willing to search for at least 10 minutes for a dead duck. They get docked for time spent on land searching.  If they find the duck, they have to return to you with the duck, and be casted again to finish the 10 minute search.  During the test, there are numerous blind retrieves, etc. as well.



i under stand the point of putting on a hunt and looking for a bird but why send the dog back out if it has found a bird?


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## king killer delete (May 6, 2015)

If the handler does not know and the dog does not know the area of the fall. How can you judge the dog if the dog expands the area of the hunt?


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## krazybronco2 (May 6, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> If the handler does not know and the dog does not know the area of the fall. How can you judge the dog if the dog expands the area of the hunt?




i agree with this and if i was really hunting and thought i had a bird down in an area it would be me and the dog looking for the bird. mostly the dog looking but me with a gun in case the bird is a cripple and is trying to get away cause then i can dispatch the bird quickly dog gets the bird with out a 3mile chase and we are back to hunting or headed back to the truck.


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## Water Swat (May 6, 2015)

Sounds interesting.


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## Joe Overby (May 6, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> Sounds interesting.



I was going to say something like that...but I just couldnt...no matter how hard I tried, couldn't hide the sarcasm.


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## SJA (May 6, 2015)

Sometimes it's necessary to have your dog hunt everywhere.  What if you don't know where the bird is? Or what if it got stuck in a tree? 

Tip: Make sure to keep bird wings for your bumpers.  Zip ties work well when attaching them.
Moderation has remove the video.
Reson,removed due to advertising.


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## Water Swat (May 6, 2015)

Joe Overby said:


> I was going to say something like that...but I just couldnt...no matter how hard I tried, couldn't hide the sarcasm.



last time i ran a blind like that they put me out for "lack of control." maybe i should run these duck chasing trials.


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## king killer delete (May 7, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> last time i ran a blind like that they put me out for "lack of control." maybe i should run these duck chasing trials.


Same here.


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## rnelson5 (May 7, 2015)

Man some of these tests I couldn't pass.


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## willsmon (May 7, 2015)

Next time my dog gives me the middle finger on a blind I will know what he is really doing is just telling me that he doesnt want to do HRC, he wants to do NAVHDA


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## cgrover1 (May 7, 2015)

Obviously, its a topic not everyone agrees on. The only reason I tested him in NAVHDA is he has to pass the natural ability and utility test to have breeding rights to him.  Back home, we always raised weimeraners and labs.  Unfortunately, I moved to Atlanta to be where the work is.  I chose a versatile dog to do the upland hunting, but I can also use him duck hunting.  It's easier to have 1 dog in Atlanta, than numerous.  Personally, testing isn't something I'm into.  NAVHDA wants your dog steady to flush, shot and fall.  I prefer tapping my dog on the head to let him do the flushing, but he fails for that.  Again, it's just requirements they have set to have breeding restrictions lifted for different breeds.


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## king killer delete (May 7, 2015)

cgrover1 said:


> Obviously, its a topic not everyone agrees on. The only reason I tested him in NAVHDA is he has to pass the natural ability and utility test to have breeding rights to him.  Back home, we always raised weimeraners and labs.  Unfortunately, I moved to Atlanta to be where the work is.  I chose a versatile dog to do the upland hunting, but I can also use him duck hunting.  It's easier to have 1 dog in Atlanta, than numerous.  Personally, testing isn't something I'm into.  NAVHDA wants your dog steady to flush, shot and fall.  I prefer tapping my dog on the head to let him do the flushing, but he fails for that.  Again, it's just requirements they have set to have breeding restrictions lifted for different breeds.


Nothing wrong with what you are doing. But please understand the retriever folks are looking for a soldier that follows orders. This does not diminish the retreivers will to hunt on the contrary it will  only enhance the drive and the very precise control  required in retriever hunt test and  retriever field trials. If you used the NAVHDA concept that you have described in a retriever hunt test,the judge would direct to pick up your dog .You and your dog would not be allowed to finish the test or the trial what ever the situation you were involved in. Your dog would be deemed out of control. This standard would hold true in the UKC or The AKC.


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## krazybronco2 (May 7, 2015)

cgrover1 said:


> Obviously, its a topic not everyone agrees on. The only reason I tested him in NAVHDA is he has to pass the natural ability and utility test to have breeding rights to him.  Back home, we always raised weimeraners and labs.  Unfortunately, I moved to Atlanta to be where the work is.  I chose a versatile dog to do the upland hunting, but I can also use him duck hunting.  It's easier to have 1 dog in Atlanta, than numerous.  Personally, testing isn't something I'm into.  NAVHDA wants your dog steady to flush, shot and fall.  I prefer tapping my dog on the head to let him do the flushing, but he fails for that.  Again, it's just requirements they have set to have breeding restrictions lifted for different breeds.



i looked on the NAVHDA site and i could find nothing other than what the test is, no standards what the judges are looking is there a site that will give those?


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