# Morality



## bullethead (Feb 21, 2012)

http://news.yahoo.com/science-overturns-view-humans-naturally-nasty-230503650.html


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## JB0704 (Feb 21, 2012)

Did you know there was an "anti-capitalist" tone to that article when you posted it?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 21, 2012)

I've always thought babies were born bad and had to be taught to be good. They like to bite, spit, and hit. They don't like to share.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 21, 2012)

The first paragraph...............


Biological research increasingly debunks the view of humanity as competitive, 
aggressive and brutish, a leading specialist in primate 
behavior told a major science conference Monday.


After raising some, I can vouch for the fact that they are very very 
needy when first born.  And their neediness gradually grows with age.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 21, 2012)

> Asked if wide public acceptance of empathy as natural would change the intense competition on which capitalist economic and political systems are based, de Waal quipped, "I'm just a monkey watcher."



Legit LOL


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## ted_BSR (Feb 22, 2012)

From the article  "Such research shows that animals naturally have pro-social tendencies for "reciprocity, fairness, empathy and consolation," said de Waal, a Dutch biologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia."

Is this why male grizzlies kill and cannibalize any cubs they can find. They do this in order to bring the mother back into heat so they can father their own young? Gorillas, Lions and even raccoons do the same thing.


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## bullethead (Feb 22, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> From the article  "Such research shows that animals naturally have pro-social tendencies for "reciprocity, fairness, empathy and consolation," said de Waal, a Dutch biologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia."
> 
> Is this why male grizzlies kill and cannibalize any cubs they can find. They do this in order to bring the mother back into heat so they can father their own young? Gorillas, Lions and even raccoons do the same thing.



I didn't read where it says every single animal that lives, has ever lived and will ever live shows those pro-social tendencies. Probably the reason some step parents treat their step children differently. 
I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I think it was a general statement. I have a suspicion that you already knew that though.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 22, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I didn't read where it says every single animal that lives, has ever lived and will ever live shows those pro-social tendencies. Probably the reason some step parents treat their step children differently.
> I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I think it was a general statement. I have a suspicion that you already knew that though.



Yes, generally, it is wrong.


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## stringmusic (Feb 23, 2012)

Morality and animal instincts are two different things, I'm not sure I see the comparison.


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## bullethead (Feb 23, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Morality and animal instincts are two different things, I'm not sure I see the comparison.



 I posted it in the AAA section so people who do see the comparison can discuss it if they would like to.


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## Madsnooker (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm no scientist but almost any child I have seen, including my own, did not naturally show "reciprosity, fairness, empathy and consolation" towards others until some training was implimented.

That has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard frankly.


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## bullethead (Feb 23, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've always thought babies were born bad and had to be taught to be good. They like to bite, spit, and hit. They don't like to share.





Ronnie T said:


> The first paragraph...............
> 
> 
> Biological research increasingly debunks the view of humanity as competitive,
> ...






stringmusic said:


> Morality and animal instincts are two different things, I'm not sure I see the comparison.






Madsnooker said:


> I'm no scientist but almost any child I have seen, including my own, did not naturally show "reciprosity, fairness, empathy and consolation" towards others until some training was implimented.
> 
> That has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard frankly.



All make a good case on why we are animals at the core.


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## stringmusic (Feb 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I posted it in the AAA section so people who do see the comparison can discuss it if they would like to.



What is the comparison to human morality and animal instincts?


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## stringmusic (Feb 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> All make a good case on why we are animals at the core.



You don't see a gap in animals and humans?


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## JB0704 (Feb 23, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> You don't see a gap in animals and humans?



Morality.

What this article is discussing is survival instincts.  Humans demonstrate "morality" beyond what is needed for survival.


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## bullethead (Feb 23, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> What is the comparison to human morality and animal instincts?



I didn't state whether or not I agreed with the article, I thought it would make a good discussion on here.

Personally I think we have to be taught morals and they are specific to our family, area, and time in history. I don't think we are born with any. We DO have animal instincts right from the start though. Like a dog or monkey or whatever we will bite until we are taught not to bite. We are made "nice" and with Manners. But put us in a corner and watch them go out the window.


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## bullethead (Feb 23, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> You don't see a gap in animals and humans?



Sure I do at certain levels. Depending on the situation humans are not always at the forefront of the gap.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I didn't state whether or not I agreed with the article, I thought it would make a good discussion on here.
> 
> Personally I think we have to be taught morals and they are specific to our family, area, and time in history. I don't think we are born with any. We DO have animal instincts right from the start though. Like a dog or monkey or whatever we will bite until we are taught not to bite. We are made "nice" and with Manners. But put us in a corner and watch them go out the window.



I agree with this statement, except I would take it a step further and say that "cultural morals" differ from the Absolute Truth". The Absolute Truth dictates absolute morality. I do not claim to know that absolute truth, but I have a belief in what it is and where it came from.


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## bullethead (Feb 23, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> I agree with this statement, except I would take it a step further and say that "cultural morals" differ from the Absolute Truth". The Absolute Truth dictates absolute morality. I do not claim to know that absolute truth, but I have a belief in what it is and where it came from.



Absolute Truth/Morality is as unobtainable as figuring out the usual banter we are trying to prove/disprove here daily.
No one knows what the limit of Absolute Truth/Morality is or who has it, or who is capable of understanding it or recognizing it if/when it is obtained. If God has it then it is in another realm where humans can't posses it anyway and if he gave it to someone no one else could understand it without having it themselves. Basically the point is moot as it is yet another unprovable claim.
Truth and Morality are Relative to the situation.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 23, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Absolute Truth/Morality is as unobtainable as figuring out the usual banter we are trying to prove/disprove here daily.
> No one knows what the limit of Absolute Truth/Morality is or who has it, or who is capable of understanding it or recognizing it if/when it is obtained. If God has it then it is in another realm where humans can't posses it anyway and if he gave it to someone no one else could understand it without having it themselves. Basically the point is moot as it is yet another unprovable claim.
> Truth and Morality are Relative to the situation.



You've almost got it!


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Absolute Truth/Morality is as unobtainable as figuring out the usual banter we are trying to prove/disprove here daily.
> No one knows what the limit of Absolute Truth/Morality is or who has it, or who is capable of understanding it or recognizing it if/when it is obtained. If God has it then it is in another realm where humans can't posses it anyway and if he gave it to someone no one else could understand it without having it themselves. Basically the point is moot as it is yet another unprovable claim.
> *Truth and Morality are Relative to the situation*.



Is it true that no one should ever rape a small child? Is this immoral or moral?

I think we both know the answer to these questions. You now have your first absolute Bullet, congrats!


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Is it true that no one should ever rape a small child? Is this immoral or moral?
> 
> I think we both know the answer to these questions. You now have your first absolute Bullet, congrats!



To me and you that situation is absolute. In our society it is immoral. To someone else in a place we are not familiar with that have morals different to ours there is nothing absolute about it. It may happen a lot and never be given a second thought in some cultures. Not so long ago in our own country there were many 12 and 13 year old brides.
Your example is absolute to us but it is hardly a universal absolute in every culture. You didn't do your homework on some modern tribes.


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> To me and you that situation is absolute. In our society it is immoral. To someone else in a place we are not familiar with that have morals different to ours there is nothing absolute about it. It may happen a lot and never be given a second thought in some cultures. Not so long ago in our own country there were many 12 and 13 year old brides.
> Your example is absolute to us but it is hardly a universal absolute in every culture. You didn't do your homework on some modern tribes.



Well how about showing me some modern tribes that rape babies. I'm not talking about 12-13 year olds either, more like 1-2 years old. 

Either way, do tribes who rape babies(although I doubt there are any) make those morals arbitrary and not absolute?Because they think it's ok to rape babies, that makes it ok for them, since morals are relative?


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Well how about showing me some modern tribes that rape babies. I'm not talking about 12-13 year olds either, more like 1-2 years old.
> 
> Either way, do tribes who rape babies(although I doubt there are any) make those morals arbitrary and not absolute?Because they think it's ok to rape babies, that makes it ok for them, since morals are relative?



Listen string, I am not opening that can of worms. If you want to pursue your doubts the info is at your fingertips. I don't want to know any more than I have already learned about it. If you want to "win" on an age technicality be it 1-2, 2-4, 5-6, then you da champ.

I cannot answer what is OK for any other society. We have enough moral skeletons in the closet from our own society in our short time as a country. I cannot explain those and I am not going to try to explain or make a positive case for some voodoo loving tribe. What is appalling to you and I is commonplace elsewhere.


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Listen string, I am not opening that can of worms. If you want to pursue your doubts the info is at your fingertips. I don't want to know any more than I have already learned about it. If you want to "win" on an age technicality be it 1-2, 2-4, 5-6, then you da champ.
> 
> I cannot answer what is OK for any other society. We have enough moral skeletons in the closet from our own society in our short time as a country. I cannot explain those and I am not going to try to explain or make a positive case for some voodoo loving tribe.* What is appalling to you and I is commonplace elsewhere.*



Does that make it ok? Because a group of people do not adhere to a moral law, does that make a moral law non existant? 

When you hear of someone breaking into a house and shooting men, women and children, do you sit back a say, well, I can't tell them what they did is wrong?

Do you believe intrinsic human rights exist?


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Does that make it ok? Because a group of people do not adhere to a moral law, does that make a moral law non existant?
> 
> When you hear of someone breaking into a house and shooting men, women and children, do you sit back a say, well, I can't tell them what they did is wrong?
> 
> Do you believe intrinsic human rights exist?



Moral Law is relative to the person,place or time period when it happens. Being raised like I was in a place time that had certain values I wince at some of the things I see and hear that go on in the world. If I was raised where they happen I might not bat an eye. If someone here backhands a woman for showing her face or piece of leg I am gonna take offense to it. If I was raised in Iran probably wouldn't think a thing of it. I can only say it is not right from the where I see it now.

I think intrinsic rights exist but it is clear and proven they do not exist in many countries,places and in certain individuals.


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Moral Law is relative to the person,place or time period when it happens.
> 
> I think intrinsic rights exist but it is clear and proven they do not exist in many countries,places and in certain individuals.



So you believe in a moral law, just not an absolute moral law? Thats not much of a moral law.

Do you ever denounce anything as being wrong?


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Moral Law is relative to the person,place or time period when it happens. Being raised like I was in a place time that had certain values I wince at some of the things I see and hear that go on in the world. If I was raised where they happen I might not bat an eye. If someone here backhands a woman for showing her face or piece of leg I am gonna take offense to it. If I was raised in Iran probably wouldn't think a thing of it. *I can only say it is not right from the where I see it now.*
> I think intrinsic rights exist but it is clear and proven they do not exist in many countries,places and in certain individuals.



But you can't, at least with any kind of validity, if you don't believe in a absolute moral law, if there is no absolute moral law, anything goes, by anyone, at any point in time. Because implying there is a absolute moral law, implies an absolute moral law giver in which to give the absolute moral law.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> So you believe in a moral law, just not an absolute moral law? Thats not much of a moral law.
> 
> Do you ever denounce anything as being wrong?



All the time. The whole "Do Unto Others" thing is not a bad way to go through life.

Some people like to use a feather, some others like the whole chicken. It ain't my cup of tea so I don't drink.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> But you can't, at least with any kind of validity, if you don't believe in a absolute moral law, if there is no absolute moral law, anything goes, by anyone, at any point in time. Because implying there is a absolute moral law, implies an absolute moral law giver in which to give the absolute moral law.



Then I don't believe in an absolute moral law.


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Then I don't believe in an absolute moral law.


So everything you denounce as immoral is just arbitrary? It really doesn't mean anything when you say a person shouldn't have done whatever it is they did?


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> So everything you denounce as immoral is just arbitrary? It really doesn't mean anything when you say a person shouldn't have done whatever it is they did?



I live within the rules society has set for me and within my own personal set of rules. I do not agree with or condone everything that others do but I cannot stop them either. If it effects me or my family it will be dealt with as I see fit.

I don't know what you are looking for in this conversation.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> So everything you denounce as immoral is just arbitrary? It really doesn't mean anything when you say a person shouldn't have done whatever it is they did?



What it means to me and what it means to you are probably exactly the same or totally different depending on the situation and/or where we each draw our line in the sand.
You and I have no idea of what absolute truth or absolute morality is because neither one of us posses it. Neither of us know what the other does behind closed doors and we certainly cannot judge what someone else does that we don't know or ever hear about.

For me Morality/Ethics is doing what I think is the right thing even when no one else is looking. I have no idea if what I choose to do meets or exceeds your standards, our if ours meets or exceeds anyone elses. Deep down though I don't live to impress others.


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## stringmusic (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I live within the rules society has set for me and within my own personal set of rules.


How do you go about telling if something is right or wrong?




> I do not agree with or condone everything that others do but I cannot stop them either. If it effects me or my family it will be dealt with as I see fit.


Believing in an absolute moral law has nothing to do with stopping someone from doing things that are immoral.



> I don't know what you are looking for in this conversation.


Just having conversation.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> How do you go about telling if something is right or wrong?


The same ways you do. 
Family upbringing
Society
Rules
Laws
Personal decision





stringmusic said:


> Believing in an absolute moral law has nothing to do with stopping someone from doing things that are immoral.


Absolutely true.....to a point.
There would be nothing short of a bullet to keep me from stepping in to stop an action that I feel is immoral like the rape of a child. 
Then again unless you are picking me up on your way over, I am not catching the next cargo plane to the Arab nations to right the wrongs against how they treat their women. I don't agree with it but I am not stepping in either.




stringmusic said:


> Just having conversation.



Okay, just checking to see if there was an ulterior motive.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

I am not convinced that if shipwrecked on a deserted island at the age of four and by some miracle you were able to survive to adulthood with no other outside guidance that you would be the same man morality wise you are right now. No absolute morality spirit would overtake you. You would act and do as your surroundings dictate solely for the benefit of you.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> To me and you that situation is absolute. In our society it is immoral. To someone else in a place we are not familiar with that have morals different to ours there is nothing absolute about it. It may happen a lot and never be given a second thought in some cultures. Not so long ago in our own country there were many 12 and 13 year old brides.
> Your example is absolute to us but it is hardly a universal absolute in every culture. You didn't do your homework on some modern tribes.



So are you saying it's ok, depending on your culture/tribe? If you were God would you allow it?? Obviously some people would, like you said. Is that the culture you'd choose for your daughters? 

Are you in no way convicted that it is wrong, no matter the culture or tribe? I do, but then again I believe differently than you, so perhaps you do think it's ok.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> So are you saying it's ok, depending on your culture/tribe? If you were God would you allow it?? Obviously some people would, like you said. Is that the culture you'd choose for your daughters?
> 
> Are you in no way convicted that it is wrong, no matter the culture or tribe? I do, but then again I believe differently than you, so perhaps you do think it's ok.



All that has already been addressed in other posts.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I am not convinced that if shipwrecked on a deserted island at the age of four and by some miracle you were able to survive to adulthood with no other outside guidance that you would be the same man morality wise you are right now. No absolute morality spirit would overtake you. You would act and do as your surroundings dictate solely for the benefit of you.



Well, just like I said.....if you could find a 12 year old female or a 5 year old female or even male, then you'd just do whatcha do?

If you don't have conviction about that, then yeah, you'd act as you desired.....that's hard for me to believe than even you would.
Me, I have conviction, I'd have to figure out how to live alone without letting myself be tempted to find a 12 year old husband....I couldn't do it.
Very few people in history (that is documented) has done that, most of it is hidden...why? because it isn't right. 

Speaking of fairy tales......and scenerios that none of us have to face...hopefully.

Shipwrecked... I'd be looking for pineapples....I know, I know, I'm weird.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> All that has already been addressed in other posts.



Just a no would be good....but.....

Why do you always say the same thing? So in other words you don't need to defend that you feel that way....that depending on anyone else's culture it's an 'a ok' with you? Alrighty then.

So if you moved from here to there, national geographic would be your 'lure' and it's all good?


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Well, just like I said.....if you could find a 12 year old female or a 5 year old female or even male, then you'd just do whatcha do?
> 
> If you don't have conviction about that, then yeah, you'd act as you desired.....that's hard for me to believe than even you would.
> Me, I have conviction, I'd have to figure out how to live alone without letting myself be tempted to find a 12 year old husband....I couldn't do it.
> ...



There is no telling what anyone would do.
Knowing what we know now it is a no brainer because of what we have learned to this point. It is easy to make a decision based on your knowledge that you have now.
Raising yourself on an island not inhabited by another human will have you, me , anyone  turning out differently than we are now.
I bet the Donner party wanted to eat pineapples but instead they ate each other. Morals change according to the situation.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Why do you always say the same thing? So in other words you don't need to defend that you feel that way....that depending on anyone else's culture it's an 'a ok' with you? Alrighty then.
> 
> So of you moved from here to there, national geographic would be your 'lure' and it's all good?



I say the same thing because you constantly ask questions that I have already answered.

NO! The morals I now have would stay the same and I would be just as appalled if I moved from here to there on many of their actions.
BUT! If I was born and raised "there" all would be normal and I would never know any different.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> How do you go about telling if something is right or wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He said he's already covered all this....problem is I can't find it. Can you? If you can will you point me there?

If a tribe, and they do, circumsize women, that makes it ok? So missionaries are useless, because what anyone decides to do it ok? What about child molesters....I suppose they were just born that way, eh? Makes it ok according to the rules for homosexuals....I was born that way. Isn't that a gaga song. So a child molester can't help his desires any more than any one else....makes it ok? That is our moral decay, isn't it?

Yes I was born that way, but taught different...thank God!! Thank goodness for bible study...I'm armed...locked and loaded...lol.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> He said he's already covered all this....problem is I can't find it. Can you? If you can will you point me there?



Post #35


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Yes I was born that way, but taught different



There you go!


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I say the same thing because you constantly ask questions that I have already answered.
> 
> NO! The morals I now have would stay the same and I would be just as appalled if I moved from here to there on many of their actions.
> BUT! If I was born and raised "there" all would be normal and I would never know any different.



Really?

So let's use your 'fairy tale' shipwreck.....would you let your daughter be a 13 yo bride? any time, any place, any where? Even if you could trade her for a goat? Wouldn't you have something different to say about it if you were shipwrecked? If you would, why use that scenerio?

Would you choose for your daughter to live somewhere else? like in a tribe in africa, australia? or are you happy she's with you in the USA where SHE has a choice? Would you prefer her to go to iraq, iran, arabia, to find love and fortune? Or how about africa where the tribal rituals roam? Honestly you are not thankful that your children live in a place that they have a choice? 

You act as if this is a horrible place because you and your children are exposed to Christianity, where else would you choose to live for a better life?


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Really?
> 
> So let's use your 'fairy tale' shipwreck.....would you let your daughter be a 13 yo bride? any time, any place, any where? Even if you could trade her for a goat? Wouldn't you have something different to say about it if you were shipwrecked? If you would, why use that scenerio?



How in the blazes am I gonna have a 13yr old daughter if I am shipwrecked A L O N E on an island?



mtnwoman said:


> Would you choose for your daughter to live somewhere else? like in a tribe in africa, australia? or are you happy she's with you in the USA where SHE has a choice? Would you prefer her to go to iraq, iran, arabia, to find love and fortune? Or how about africa where the tribal rituals roam? Honestly you are not thankful that your children live in a place that they have a choice?



Being brought up as I have been, here in the good 'ol USA, I would be content with my daughter staying right here.



mtnwoman said:


> You act as if this is a horrible place because you and your children are exposed to Christianity, where else would you choose to live for a better life?



Actually I don't act like that at all. YOU get whatever you want to get out of posts. You should read the entire thread first, then again in case you missed something and then respond. You are so way off base it isn't even funny anymore.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> How in the blazes am I gonna have a 13yr old daughter if I am shipwrecked A L O N E on an island?*Well if you were four you wouldn't. If I need to spell it out, I was just saying, which I guess I should've filled in the lines....if you were shipwrecked on an island (obviously with your family if I used your 13 yo daughter as an example) would you adapt to your surroundings if that included a tribe that took 13 yo girls as brides, would you allow your daughter to be a bride? I'm sure you've answered that somewhere but I couldn't find that one either.....sheesh. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Well I always am when I don't agree with you, right?*


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Morals change according to the situation.



Alrighty then.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Post #35



I didn't know you were speaking of rape, that's what threw me off, I suppose. I thought you meant marrying young girls as a custom....my bad.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> *Well I always am when I don't agree with you, right?*



In regards to your RED replies to my replies above:

If I was shipwrecked on an island with my family I would already be old enough to have learned the morals I now have, so I doubt I would adapt to something that allows my daughter to be wed at a young age.

Your scenario is TOTALLY different than the shipwreck one I used because in mine(or any scenario where a young kid is alone without adult guidance) the only morals gathered, taught or learned would be from the young individual himself.

As far as agreeing with me you are normally so far off the point that there is no way you can agree with me because you don't actually know what I am saying.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I didn't know you were speaking of rape, that's what threw me off, I suppose. I thought you meant marrying young girls as a custom....my bad.



Right and instead of clarifying it you take it off on a tangent that I never implied and then still continue to roll with it even after I have answered the questions many posts earlier.

You will say to me "so you mean.........." and then go off on a reply for that meaning without ever knowing my true meaning. In essence you argue with yourself.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 24, 2012)

Didn't Mohammed have a nine year old wife? In his defense, at that time in was morally okay. My female cousin got married at 13 in the early 50's. In the 50's & 60's it was okay to be a racist. In the 70's it was okay for women to wear men's clothes. In the 80's it was okay for unmarried couples to have sex. In the 90's it was okay for unmarried couples to live together. It's now okay to play the fiddle, play cards, sunbath, swear, talk back to grown-ups, be a homosexual, and dance. The Bible might not change, but morality does.


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## bullethead (Feb 24, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Didn't Mohammed have a nine year old wife? In his defense, at that time in was morally okay. My female cousin got married at 13 in the early 50's. In the 50's & 60's it was okay to be a racist. In the 70's it was okay for women to wear men's clothes. In the 80's it was okay for unmarried couples to have sex. In the 90's it was okay for unmarried couples to live together. It's now okay to play the fiddle, play cards, sunbath, swear, talk back to grown-ups, be a homosexual, and dance. The Bible might not change, but morality does.



All good points. It leaves little room for that gift of absolute morality that transcends time and was instilled in all of us by a creator.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 25, 2012)

Being a Christian doesn't give me any superpowers. I can be unmoral, lie, cheat, steal, get hooked on drugs, or get pregnant out of wedlock, (not really). 
I can ask God for help in not doing these things but it's my decision.
The Christian divorce rate is identical to the national average.


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## bullethead (Feb 25, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Being a Christian doesn't give me any superpowers. I can be unmoral, lie, cheat, steal, get hooked on drugs, or get pregnant out of wedlock, (not really).
> I can ask God for help in not doing these things but it's my decision.
> The Christian divorce rate is identical to the national average.



Genuine, refreshing and realistic. Thanks.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 28, 2012)

bullethead said:


> All good points. It leaves little room for that gift of absolute morality that transcends time and was instilled in all of us by a creator.





Nope, just cause we didn't/haven't yet got it right, does not mean it does not exist.


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## bullethead (Feb 28, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Nope, just cause we didn't/haven't yet got it right, does not mean it does not exist.



Ted read the Bible, there are no absolute morals by man or his God.


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## jmharris23 (Feb 28, 2012)

Wow...or in the words of Dawg2.....Holy Cow


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## bullethead (Feb 28, 2012)

jmharris23 said:


> Wow...or in the words of Dawg2.....Holy Cow



I KNOW!!!!!! I said the same thing when I realized we are no more or less moral than the God in the Bible. We are made in his likeness(actually the Bible states that God said in "our" likeness, so I guess there are others up there...but that is another thread..) and obviously we have his morals too. Glad to have you aboard! 
Unless you can go through the verses of immorality and somehow show that they are not.


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## jmharris23 (Feb 28, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I KNOW!!!!!! I said the same thing when I realized we are no more or less moral than the God in the Bible. We are made in his likeness(actually the Bible states that God said in "our" likeness, so I guess there are others up there...but that is another thread..) and obviously we have his morals too. Glad to have you aboard!
> Unless you can go through the verses of immorality and somehow show that they are not.


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