# Christopher Hitchens video



## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

If you can't stand to watch the whole 5 minutes, just try to watch the first 3 minutes. 


https://youtu.be/qdjQIvqatYo


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

ky55 said:


> If you can't stand to watch the whole 5 minutes, just try to watch the first 3 minutes.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/qdjQIvqatYo



Keep drinking the black label bro. Do whatever you want with no repercussion from anyone. I don't know you, but you sound like a liberal democrat. Even you science guy's should understand Newton's law. And I'm not talking about gravity, even though you can't see it you believe it exists?


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Keep drinking the black label bro. Do whatever you want with no repercussion from anyone. I don't know you, but you sound like a liberal democrat. Even you science guy's should understand Newton's law. And I'm not talking about gravity, even though you can't see it you believe it exists?



Couldn't even stand 3 minutes, huh?


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Keep drinking the black label bro. Do whatever you want with no repercussion from anyone. I don't know you, but you sound like a liberal democrat. Even you science guy's should understand Newton's law. And I'm not talking about gravity, even though you can't see it you believe it exists?


Doesn't it bother you that something so supposedly as amazing, powerful, capable, wonderful and on and on and on as you say that your god is ...is a no show? That more people believe in, because there is more evidence for other things that can't be seen rather than the evidence for a/your/any god?
Invisible scientific discoveries are more provable than a god.
It is a shame the powerful being doesn't or can't prove itself. Undeniably


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Doesn't it bother you that something so supposedly as amazing, powerful, capable, wonderful and on and on and on as you say that your god is ...is a no show? That more people believe in, because there is more evidence for other things that can't be seen rather than the evidence for a/your/any god?
> Invisible scientific discoveries are more provable than a god.
> It is a shame the powerful being doesn't or can't prove itself. Undeniably



A know show for you? I've seen all I need to see.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> A know show for you?



Me, science, and the majority of the world.
I want to meet him. I want to believe. I can't as it stands right now.
If I believe the evidence presented to me by all believers so far I would have to believe in every god that is worshiped world wide. NONE stand out above any other.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> A know show for you? I've seen all I need to see.






Did you watch the video??


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> A know show for you? I've seen all I need to see.



Oh I get that Richie. Do you use that criteria as a guide for everything else in life? Do you take the word of others as your proof for investments? How about when buying a vehicle? Surgery?


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> A know show for you? I've seen all I need to see.



A NO show.
I KNOW he don't show.


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Oh I get that Richie. Do you use that criteria as a guide for everything else in life? Do you take the word of others as your proof for investments? How about when buying a vehicle? Surgery?



If I believe he is honest and is a good man then yes I do.  I have been blessed enough not to have ever needed surgery but I promise you my fist question will be do you believe in God.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

Third time.....

Did you watch the video?


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> A NO show.
> I KNOW he don't show.



Unless you have been pronounced dead or have come back from the grave you don't know. Lets get real here we are talking about death and the afterlife? Not just about being good men here on earth?


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> If I believe he is honest and is a good man then yes I do.  I have been blessed enough not to have ever needed surgery but I promise you my fist question will be do you believe in God.



Are your standards the standards by which all others are set? 
Or
Is it possible that people vary in what critetia must be met in order to convince them?

I understand that you have seen, heard or witnessed enough to convince you of your beliefs. Maybe, if there is a god, he/she/it used the right amount of evidence that it knew it would take to convince you?
I am still waiting.  I do not have a line in the sand. I dont know exactly what would convince me. I do know that I have not experienced it yet.
I do have "faith", an "expectation " that if a god exists...it would know PRECISELY what it would take to get me to believe in that specific god. I would expect it could do it easily on it's end. I am convinced that anything worthy of being a god would know how to contact each and every human on the planet in a way unique to the individual,if for no other reason than to get everyone to believe in one true god and stop  killing each other over the religion nonsense that claims more lives than all others combined.

I say to any god listening PLEASE step up and practice what your believers preach.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Unless you have been pronounced dead or have come back from the grave you don't know. Lets get real here we are talking about death and the afterlife? Not just about being good men here on earth?



I have no need or urge to live forever.
Afterlife is a coping mechanism that keeps people from literally losing their minds trying to deal with the fact that they WILL die.
You are happy to kick off because yoi are going to a magical village in the clouds where everybody and everything just gets along and you hit the powerball every day and there are no redlights.

Hey if that keeps you from taking hostages while you are alive, great.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Unless you have been pronounced dead or have come back from the grave you don't know. Lets get real here we are talking about death and the afterlife? Not just about being good men here on earth?



Can you admit that you do know any more about what happens after death than I do?

What if you and I are both wrong?
Are you prepared for that?
Would you follow an afterlife belief in another religion just in case that you got your current one wrong?

Then why would I?


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Third time.....
> 
> Did you watch the video?



My apologies. I didn't get past the preacher and tuned out. I re watched the video and found it thought provoking. I must admit I am sometimes quick to judge.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> My apologies. I didn't get past the preacher and tuned out. I re watched the video and found it thought provoking. I must admit I am sometimes quick to judge.



No apology necessary. 
Christopher Hitchens was not a preacher. He wasn't even an atheist-he was an antitheist.
He hated organized religion for all the pain and misery it causes all over the world. 
Anybody who can watch that video without having their heart break for the misery and suffering that those children are experiencing in the name of organized religion has no heart.


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Can you admit that you do know any more about what happens after death than I do?
> 
> What if you and I are both wrong?
> Are you prepared for that?
> ...



I only know what I have experienced. I don't believe I am wrong but for the sake of debate lets say I am. What are the ramifications. What if your wrong?


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

I've been trying to get this quote set up as my signature line but I guess I can't get the system figured out so far:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg



The only way that good people would abuse children like they are doing in the video is if they believed their god was telling them to do it.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I only know what I have experienced. I don't believe I am wrong but for the sake of debate lets say I am. What are the ramifications. What if your wrong?



If I am wrong your god is going to send me to burn for eternity for not believing in him despite me being a good person in every other way.

If another god, i may be reincarnated as an ardvark.

And so on....and on...

How many bases must I cover?

I hope that I am judged by a supreme being for my actions and life on this earth after I am dead. That would be fair.


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

ky55 said:


> I've been trying to get this quote set up as my signature line but I guess I can't get the system figured out so far:
> 
> "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
> But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
> ...


You are confusing man with God.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> You are confusing man with God.



Which god?
Out of the 10,000 I know you mean "your" god.
Even you have no clue about the god you worship.
Is it simple or so complex that no human can begin to understand it?
It may very well be the one true god but all you have to go by on information about this god is the writings of man. I am sure you also have confused man with god.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> You are confusing man with God.



If there is a god of some sort abusing those children, I want absolutely nothing to do with that god. 

If "man" is responsible for that abuse, then those responsible should answer to a justice system that prosecutes all other child abuse cases.

I am genuinely sorry for you if you can find any way to justify the abuse in the video I posted.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

I am sincerely interested in what you honestly know about god compared to what you hope and think you know. 
You dont follow your own advice.


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

ky55 said:


> If there is a god of some sort abusing those children, I want absolutely nothing to do with that god.
> 
> If "man" is responsible for that abuse, then those responsible should answer to a justice system that prosecutes all other child abuse cases.
> 
> I am genuinely sorry for you if you can find any way to justify the abuse in the video I posted.



Man Is to blame and should be held accountable.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

Richie, did Jesus/God appear to you at various points from early childhood and even now and teach you the bible or sot you down and explain why things are and what is going to happen afyer death?
Or
Have you been told by Man the whole time?


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> I am sincerely interested in what you honestly know about god compared to what you hope and think you know.
> You dont follow your own advice.



I could tell you and go into detail but you would find a way to discredit it in your mind. I don't think you would believe my personal testimony or attribute it to a chemical in the brain. Although I enjoy the debate it does seem as though no fruit will be grown in this desert.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Man Is to blame and should be held accountable.





You are exactly right. 
But man will never be held accountable for subjecting children to this abuse because man believes his god has authorized and approved this abuse.


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

ky55 said:


> You are exactly right.
> But man will never be held accountable for subjecting children to this abuse because man believes his god has authorized and approved this abuse.



Not the men I know.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I could tell you and go into detail but you would find a way to discredit it in you mind. I don't think you would believe my personal testimony or attribute it to a chemical in the brain. Although I enjoy the debate it does seem as though no fruit will be grown in this desert.


How is anyone able to discredit the truth?
All you have to offer is details and you won't give them. If you think for a second that they are explainable in any other way, maybe it is because they are.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I don't think you would believe my personal testimony



How can any rational person believe in a "personal testimony" when so many of them  come from small children like the ones in the video who haven't even reached an age where they can think for themselves?


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Richie, did Jesus/God appear to you at various points from early childhood and even now and teach you the bible or sot you down and explain why things are and what is going to happen afyer death?
> Or
> Have you been told by Man the whole time?



Why yes he did. From a toddler I have had dreams and have felt his presence. Not so much explain things but I knew it was God. I did have a near death experience and the whole white light into Heaven I found to be consistent with others experiences.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Why yes he did. From a toddler I have had dreams and have felt his presence. Not so much explain things but I knew it was God. I did have a near death experience and the whole white light into Heaven I found to be consistent with others experiences.




Would you feel the way that you do now without those experiences and personal visits?

Why not me? Why didn't I get that personal attention?
Is it possible that he doesn't want me?

If I have free will to not believe do I also have free will to want to believe?
Why would god harden my heart against him?


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Why yes he did. From a toddler I have had dreams and have felt his presence. Not so much explain things but I knew it was God. I did have a near death experience and the whole white light into Heaven I found to be consistent with others experiences.



How do you decipher which dreams are real, and which are not?


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Why yes he did. From a toddler I have had dreams and have felt his presence. Not so much explain things but I knew it was God. I did have a near death experience and the whole white light into Heaven I found to be consistent with others experiences.



Well,
we have something in common then. 
For as far back as I can remember I had dreams and felt the presence of Jack O'Connor, Patrick McManus, and Ted Trueblood.


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## ky55 (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Why not me? Why didn't I get that personal attention?
> Is it possible that he doesn't want me?





"And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!"

Omar Khayyám, Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam


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## red neck richie (May 27, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Would you feel the way that you do now without those experiences and personal visits?
> 
> Why not me? Why didn't I get that personal attention?
> Is it possible that he doesn't want me?
> ...



I cant answer that question but I will say I know an open mind can help. Don't just focus on what can be explained by science (man). But try to tap into your spirit. Be advised it can be emotional. An overwhelming feeling of love can bring you to your knees.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Why yes he did. From a toddler I have had dreams and have felt his presence. Not so much explain things but I knew it was God. I did have a near death experience and the whole white light into Heaven I found to be consistent with others experiences.


Last night I dreamt that I was in my grandparents basement, but I have not been in that besement for over 20 years, and they are dead 30-40years, and the basement and its contents looked like nothing as I remember it. 
I have had dreams where I could leap into the air and fly.
I have had dreams, the same dreams so many times that I am able to change the outcome or take a different path IN the dream as it is happening.
I fought vampires and been a vampire.
I have seen gods and defeated demons and devils. 

Is it standard to cherry pick the ones I want to be true and chock the others off as the results of a late snack and gas?

I really need to know how to decipher which are real and which are not.


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## bullethead (May 27, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I cant answer that question but I will say I know an open mind can help. Don't just focus on what can be explained by science (man). But try to tap into your spirit. Be advised it can be emotional. An overwhelming feeling of love can bring you to your knees.


I know what you mean, Ive done that. It had happened. Buddha overwhelmed me.

Now what?

Ive done it wrong?
My feelings were misconstrued?
I am full of poopsicles?
Buddha is real?

Which is it Richie? Ive met your criteria and yet my results differ.
Why?


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## Israel (May 28, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I could tell you and go into detail but you would find a way to discredit it in your mind. I don't think you would believe my personal testimony or attribute it to a chemical in the brain. Although I enjoy the debate it does seem as though no fruit will be grown in this desert.



Farmers farm.

Now, do you like "seem"...or real?

Ya ever try to eat wax fruit?

With regards to Hitchens...there's this (with warning of some language some may find an offense...even when "true")

https://jaldenh.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/vanity-fair-trial-of-the-will-by-christopher-hitchens/

Everything is open to revision.


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## bullethead (May 28, 2017)

Israel said:


> Farmers farm.
> 
> Now, do you like "seem"...or real?
> 
> ...


Real farmers do not farm pretend crops on visions of land.


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## Israel (May 28, 2017)

LOL...you are wonderfully relentless! It reminds me of someone else...in their relentlessness!

In the ''sixth'' chapter of John our Lord makes some statements which gospel Christians seem afraid to talk about. The average one of us manages to live with them by the simple trick of ignoring them. They are such as these: 1. Only they come to Christ who have been given to Him by the Father (John 6:37). 2. No one can come of himself; he must first be drawn by the Father (John 6:44). 3. The ability to come to Christ is a gift of the Father (John 6:65). 4. Everyone given to the Son by the Father will come to Him (John 6:37)

It is not surprising that upon hearing these words many of our Lord's disciples went back and walked no more with Him. Such teaching cannot but be deeply disturbing to the natural mind. It takes from sinful men much of the power of self-determination upon which they had prided themselves so inordinately. It cuts the ground out from under their self-help and throws them back upon the sovereign good pleasure of God, and that is precisely where they do not want to be. They are willing to be saved by grace, but to preserve their self-esteem they must hold that the desire to be saved originated with them; this desire is their contribution to the whole thing, their offering of the fruit of the ground, and it keeps salvation in their hands where in truth it is not and can never be.

Admitting the difficulties this creates for us, and acknowledging that it runs contrary to the assumptions of popular Christianity, it is yet impossible to deny that there are certain persons who, though still unconverted, are nevertheless different from the crowd, marked out of God, stricken with an interior wound and susceptible to the call of Christ to a degree others are not.
A. W. Tozer Sermon: The Father's Gift


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## centerpin fan (May 28, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Anybody who can watch that video without having their heart break for the misery and suffering that those children are experiencing in the name of organized religion has no heart.



Call me heartless, then.

I did something I rarely do:  I watched a video over two minutes long.  As disjointed as that was, I guess the point is bad things have been done in the name of religion, to which I agree.

BTW, you're supposed to embed videos.


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## bullethead (May 28, 2017)

Israel said:


> LOL...you are wonderfully relentless! It reminds me of someone else...in their relentlessness!
> 
> In the ''sixth'' chapter of John our Lord makes some statements which gospel Christians seem afraid to talk about. The average one of us manages to live with them by the simple trick of ignoring them. They are such as these: 1. Only they come to Christ who have been given to Him by the Father (John 6:37). 2. No one can come of himself; he must first be drawn by the Father (John 6:44). 3. The ability to come to Christ is a gift of the Father (John 6:65). 4. Everyone given to the Son by the Father will come to Him (John 6:37)
> 
> ...


You keep playing different infomercials for the same product that doesn't work as advertised. You tout the ease of use,  the miraculous results and one size fits all gaurantee and most importantly the personal testimony. Not only are you the president but you were once a client. Just when we think it has been taken off the market You rebox it, bombard the consumers with another fancy commercial, make more unprovable claims and then make excuses that the people don't know how to use the product when the desired results are not met yet again.

You constantly set it and won't let us forget it.
Nobody in here is buying what you are selling because when we decide to put the product to the test, only an empty box arrives at the doorstep and all we are left with are inflated shipping and handling charges.


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## Israel (May 28, 2017)

LOL...I ain't the president.
Ya ever see what _he _goes through?


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## bullethead (May 28, 2017)

You are without question the Ron Popiel of this forum. Ive seen what he goes through to sell a product.


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## Israel (May 28, 2017)

Ron Popeil! Whatta compliment...but, my head's not turned.

I mean, who wouldn't love him?


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## bullethead (May 28, 2017)

Spray on hair. Who could love him?


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## ky55 (May 28, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Spray on hair. Who could love him?



Ron Popeil's Pocket Fisher of Men.

A perennial favorite.


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## Israel (May 28, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Ron Popeil's Pocket Fisher of Men.
> 
> A perennial favorite.



Ha!


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## ky55 (May 28, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Call me heartless, then.



Ok, I can do that.....

You are heartless.


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## ky55 (May 28, 2017)

Israel said:


> With regards to Hitchens...there's this (with warning of some language some may find an offense...even when "true")
> https://jaldenh.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/vanity-fair-trial-of-the-will-by-christopher-hitchens/



Yeah I had actually read that Vanity Fair piece by Hitchens, and a bunch more. 
It was a dang shame that such a good man had to die such a miserable death. 

It was really good to see that you recognized and followed him and respected his contributions.


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## centerpin fan (May 28, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Ok, I can do that.....
> 
> You are heartless.



Exactly what "misery and suffering" were the kids being subjected to?  All I saw were some kids at church and Frodo being menaced by the Nazgul.


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## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Keep drinking the black label bro. Do whatever you want with no repercussion from anyone. I don't know you, but you sound like a liberal democrat. Even you science guy's should understand Newton's law. And I'm not talking about gravity, even though you can't see it you believe it exists?





> Do whatever you want with no repercussion from anyone.


Richie, you've made this same comment in several different threads. 
Do you actually believe an A/A thinks they can "do anything they want" and there will be no repercussions from "anyone"?
How about if an A/A wants to blow by a cop doing 110mph in a 35mph zone?
How about if an A/A wants to beat his wife in front of his kids? Can you think of any repercussions from that?
How about if an A/A wants to walk into a church and shoots up the place? No repercussions?
I'm an A/A. I guess I can use foul language and throw personal insults around right here on this forum. I mean there will be no repercussions so I might as well right?
How many hundreds of pages of examples do I need to give you?
When you say "there will be no repercussions from anyone" what you REALLY mean is "there will be no repercussions from God" don't you?
Obviously a person that doesn't think God exists also doesn't believe that the thing they don't think exists is going to punish them. That's a long way from there will be no repercussions from anyone.
Keep drinking the black label bro 

And "Newtons law" doesn't exist. Its just a name that man gave to what HE WAS OBSERVING/SEEING.


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## Israel (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Yeah I had actually read that Vanity Fair piece by Hitchens, and a bunch more.
> It was a dang shame that such a good man had to die such a miserable death.
> 
> It was really good to see that you recognized and followed him and respected his contributions.



You and I can talk, right?

Hitchens, to me, did a pretty good job of giving atheism a bad name. In that he gave a "lot of himself away" in an honesty that allowed for a seeing into himself. I know now the poor guy (or blessed guy...depending upon view)...couldn't help himself. 

I look at myself over this short span of years and see what I thought was my central motive, and this...as a one calling himself, for want of a better term, a believer, and see how much the same we are. I have sought, or thought, I was set for the upholding of a name, and that being Jesus, and see how much rack and ruin I have wrought. I have been, in that way, I believe a bit like him...punching at air...when the battle is within. So, in that sense, my striving to make Jesus a "have" a good name, now to me, worked in opposition. As he gave atheism a bad name, I, no less, am allowed to see how I have not succeeded at what I thought I was about, either.

Bulls in china shops may not have a very clear notion of freedom, may not at all, in their rage of confinement be able to see the door that they could simply walk through...to have it. All they know is "this ain't it" in this small store and will kick at anything and everything they feel is impediment. The impulse to be free and unrestricted is strong enough to provoke such blind activity. 

Then stuff breaks, falls, rains down on flanks...crunches underfoot, bangs shins...and suddenly kicking and bucking enters its own feed back loop.
What may have started out as a bid for freedom against confinement...is now a struggle to simply not be crushed and wounded more.

It seems no secret that of drink, alcohol was his preferred _go to_ of relief...mine has simply been the cup of religion. So again, we are not very different. But, of each 
"thing" in which relief is sought...each brings its own consequences. We both found out we are dying, he of esophageal cancer, me of my religiosity. Can I take a cue from him, learn anything from him after common claim of death has staked its rightful place? Yes, we are brothers in this "end" where strength for bucking is ebbing.

I saw him once...it was a cue...that there was more at work in him than just the blindness of irremediable refusals. It was from a TV show with Bill Mahar. The host (Mahar) said something about, I believe, the stupidity of George Bush...and Hitchens rebuked him. He rebuked...the host! (Someone else did that, too) 

The guy who it seemed had some power of invite to afford one _a stage..._getting put in his place (and quite pointedly)...by a guest. You can see Mahar fumble, trying to make _his_ point...but it was too late. Hitchens had seen this was merely a tactic of Mahar's religious exercise of a piety (in his own religion and following...of those "enlightened ones") to throw the crowd some red meat. In that religion all that is GOP or bears the taint of conservative thought is up for "righteous" mocking. 

Moreover, when the crowd showed its displeasure of its frolic being interrupted by many boos, Hitchens went on to give them all "the finger". Yes, in that religion, any interruption of their presumption of the base and gross stupidity of George Bush could simply not be tolerated. It's really something to watch, like a man turning his back on an open door to more popularity by just "submitting" to, what till that time, one could easily have surmised as being a crowd already "on his side". Atheist, iconoclast, "intellectual" defender of (their presumed) common cause. But he goes further in that, in not merely submitting...but rebuking them all. "Yeah yeah" he kinda says, "you all think you're smarter than Bush". And by their boos, I believe they really did.

What must a writer of books, a lecturer, speaker, a sought out guest...who makes his living as such, have going on "inside" to effectively publicly alienate his _source(s)_? Obviously...he was taking his stand on something other than what is apparent "source". He was throwing "that fellowship" as it were, to the wind.

I too have had the fellowship afforded those, and among those who will simply submit to the premise of whatever devil that has been set in sight and can then be enjoyed...by merely sharing the assumption of being "better than him". It becomes the avatar of all, and whatever a people find spurring themselves to discomfort...it is reduced, crystalized into all a man (thinks he) wants to wrap his hands around the throat of, reach, finally grab, and choke the life from. The ultimate enemy. The final enemy. The _perfection_ of enemy. The apotheosis...of enemy.
The thing not only "allowed" to be hated and killed, but demanding in its existence, and by its existence that "righteousness" be serviced in its extinguishment. Finally...a thing to hate, to vent all upon without reserve, no mercy considered. Ahhh...finally. 

The thing gone _too far_ in its being...that must be killed. And it's not only OK to do...the "heavens" demand it.


Yes, religion seen in such light then makes its ubiquitous appearance. "We are the smart"  and ignorance and superstition are fine to put a bead on. We are of the  "bleeding heart kind"...and all (we call) conservative thought is of hard and diabolical greed...drop a round between their eyes. "We are" the believers and our promised land is just there, over that hill, after we drive out all the (to us) ...unbelievers. Our God will show his approval of us...then...but not...till.

(If you are wise...or perceptive, you will see how my words betray me, for in thought and word, I have reduced the "them" to a _kind_, a _type_, and must answer for that, too.)

But. Drinking of such cups has consequences.
We do better to listen to Pogo Possum.


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

BTW...by what metric was one hoping to reduce a man to being "no more" than Ron Popeil? I haven't been nearly as creatively successful as he in his field. Surely my bank account speaks for itself, and I probably dare not stack my kindness up against his for the reckoning, either. He's probably very "nice" to those he loves. Probably way nicer...than I. 

So, by what fiction entertained would I have to be ashamed of being compared with him? Unless of course the speaker harbors the very precious notion he's a better man than both of us, and can use us to his whim.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> I hope that I am judged by a supreme being for my actions and life on this earth after I am dead. That would be fair.



You will be.  You will be found guilty of not being perfectly Holy and you will be condemned for all eternity to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored because you willfully rejected Christ who died so that you may live.  And you will have no one to blame but yourself.  A man of your intellect cannot plead ignorance while children readily accept Christ.   The old saying "Too smart for your own good." rings true.  Make all the pseudo-intellectual excuses you wish, they won't stand in the face of the Truth (Christ Jesus).  And yet he still stands at your door and knocks until you are no more.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You will be.  You will be found guilty of not being perfectly Holy and you will be condemned for all eternity to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored because you willfully rejected Christ who died so that you may live.  And you will have no one to blame but yourself.  A man of your intellect cannot plead ignorance while children readily accept Christ.   The old saying "Too smart for your own good." rings true.  Make all the pseudo-intellectual excuses you wish, they won't stand in the face of the Truth (Christ Jesus).  And yet he still stands at your door and knocks until you are no more.


Semper Fi,
Remove Bullets name and insert yours.
Remove Christ's name and insert the name of another god.
Repeat until you have gone through the whole list of gods known to man.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> I've been trying to get this quote set up as my signature line but I guess I can't get the system figured out so far:
> 
> "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
> But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
> ...



I wish you the best with your signature line.   It speaks volumes given the fact that one cannot even define the terms "good", "evil", not to mention "dignity", without first presupposing God.  It represents the absurdity of foundational Atheistic beliefs in toto.  May God speed your endeavor.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Semper Fi,
> Remove Bullets name and insert yours.
> Remove Christ's name and insert the name of another god.
> Repeat until you have gone through the whole list of gods known to man.



Another inane argument based on the premise that there is no difference between apples and oranges and if there is Athiest are not capable of deducing it.  Again, the intellectual debasement Atheist are willing to subject themselves to in order to rebel against the Truth is .....well let's just say, a prelude.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You will be.  You will be found guilty of not being perfectly Holy and you will be condemned for all eternity to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored because you willfully rejected Christ who died so that you may live.  And you will have no one to blame but yourself.  A man of your intellect cannot plead ignorance while children readily accept Christ.   The old saying "Too smart for your own good." rings true.  Make all the pseudo-intellectual excuses you wish, they won't stand in the face of the Truth (Christ Jesus).  And yet he still stands at your door and knocks until you are no more.


You are so scared that you are wrong your only comfort is to try to use fear in order to sway others into standing by you so you are not alone.
If your god was so good it would be undeniable.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Another inane argument based on the premise that there is no difference between apples and oranges and if there is Athiest are not capable of deducing it.  Again, the intellectual debasement Atheist are willing to subject themselves to in order to rebel against the Truth is .....well let's just say, a prelude.


The only difference between invisible nonexistent apples and invisible nonexistent oranges are the intellectually dishonest stories that believers in each make up to convince themselves they exist.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> It speaks volumes given the fact that one cannot even define the terms "good", "evil", not to mention "dignity", without first presupposing God.



It would be a sad world if man's knowledge of good and evil depended on receiving that knowledge from a god. 

And it would be an even sadder world if man's choices were made based on a promise of paradise or the threat of eternal punishment.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> My apologies. I didn't get past the preacher .



Yep.  Slightly different beliefs than the Westboro crowd, but a preacher of hate just the same.  But I heard he "got religion" after his diagnosis.  Guess his hypocrisy only went so far. ( Doc Holliday.  Tombstone)


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Yep.  Slightly different beliefs than the Westboro crowd, but a preacher of hate just the same.  But I heard he "got religion" after his diagnosis.  Guess his hypocrisy only went so far. ( Doc Holliday.  Tombstone)



Hypocrisy is you talking about someone being perfectly holy. At least others have a limit.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> It would be a sad world if man's knowledge of good and evil depended on receiving that knowledge from a god.
> 
> And it would be an even sadder world if man's choices were made based on a promise of paradise or the threat of eternal punishment.



Maybe you missed the point.  Without God there is no such thing as the concepts:  good, evil, or dignity.  Let that sink in.  And that's not what I say.  Far better proponents of Atheism than you KNOW it's the only logical conclusion of your beliefs.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Maybe you missed the point.  Without God there is no such thing as the concepts:  good, evil, or dignity.  Let that sink in.  And that's not what I say.  Far better proponents of Atheism than you KNOW it's the only logical conclusion of your beliefs.



Back up your point.

Good, evil and dignity exist. Your god is the only thing consistently missing and the one item that you constantly claim but cannot produce.
Why is that SFD?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Hypocrisy is you talking about someone being perfectly holy. At least others have a limit.



You guys are dense today.  Must be the holliday fog.    Never said I was Holy.  God is.  I'm the biggest sinner I ever met so I know hypocrisy when I see it.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Another inane argument based on the premise that there is no difference between apples and oranges and if there is Athiest are not capable of deducing it.  Again, the intellectual debasement Atheist are willing to subject themselves to in order to rebel against the Truth is .....well let's just say, a prelude.


You know those things that racing horses wear on their eyes so they can only see in a tunnel directly ahead?


> no difference between apples and oranges


The only difference between the apples and the oranges is YOU believe in one and not the other.
So to recap -
1. You are quite willing to tell people whats going to happen to them if they don't believe in your god.
2. Yet you dismiss all the negative things that might happen to you because you don't believe in a different god(s).
3. None of you can actually prove that any of these gods actually exist.

And to point out that blatant, obvious, hit you on the head with a hammer contradiction is "intellectual debasement".

Ok now I understand.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You guys are dense today.  Must be the holliday fog.    Never said I was Holy.  God is.  I'm the biggest sinner I ever met so I know hypocrisy when I see it.



Then you can grab my bags at Hotel Hades. I'm sorry you are wasting all this preaching on a lost cause for yourself. Though it is quite nobel of you to want to save others knowing you don't meet the requirements yourself.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Yep.  Slightly different beliefs than the Westboro crowd, but a preacher of hate just the same.  But I heard he "got religion" after his diagnosis.  Guess his hypocrisy only went so far. ( Doc Holliday.  Tombstone)



"On the deathbed conversion – I spent my father’s final weeks and days at his bedside and watched him draw his final breath and die, and can assure you that there was no hint of any sort of conversion (as I’m sure you have already guessed). In fact, we barely spoke about religion at all except for joint expressions of frustration at the god botherers who made the rounds in the ICU and other units where dying people could be preyed upon by vulturous Christians."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...nversion-christopher-hitchens-defiant-to-last

Sorry, but according to Hitchens' son the conversion rumor wasn't true. 
It appears to have been a rumor started by Christians who hated him when he was alive and got a great deal of pleasure from his death. 
"Vulturous" is an appropriate term.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Exactly what "misery and suffering" were the kids being subjected to?



Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

Seventeen people reading this thread.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Richie, you've made this same comment in several different threads.
> Do you actually believe an A/A thinks they can "do anything they want" and there will be no repercussions from "anyone"?
> How about if an A/A wants to blow by a cop doing 110mph in a 35mph zone?
> How about if an A/A wants to beat his wife in front of his kids? Can you think of any repercussions from that?
> ...



You are right Walt. I am not so politically correct when it comes to politics as I am with religion. There are some sensitive people on this thread that I was trying not to offend. I will try to be more consistent and offend equally. Don't sit under apple tree's and watch out if you drink black label it can make you do crazy things. Just an observation.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

Israel said:


> BTW...by what metric was one hoping to reduce a man to being "no more" than Ron Popeil? I haven't been nearly as creatively successful as he in his field. Surely my bank account speaks for itself, and I probably dare not stack my kindness up against his for the reckoning, either. He's probably very "nice" to those he loves. Probably way nicer...than I.
> 
> So, by what fiction entertained would I have to be ashamed of being compared with him? Unless of course the speaker harbors the very precious notion he's a better man than both of us, and can use us to his whim.



Snake oil salesman.


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

I auditioned for the part. But I found I'd gone a bit too far when I proffered my list of talents.
"Sincerity" I said, "if you're wondering...yeah, I can do that, too".


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

Israel said:


> I auditioned for the part. But I found I'd gone a bit too far when I proffered my list of talents.
> "Sincerity" I said, "if you're wondering...yeah, I can do that, too".



Theatrics are your strong point.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Seventeen people reading this thread.



Twenty


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Twenty



Only 4 or 5 active.
Lots like to lurk


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> You are right Walt. I am not so politically correct when it comes to politics as I am with religion. There are some sensitive people on this thread that I was trying not to offend. I will try to be more consistent and offend equally. Don't sit under apple tree's and watch out if you drink black label it can make you do crazy things.





> and watch out if you drink black label it can make you do crazy things


Yesterday at Lake Sinclair I drank one of those new wave fruity tasting beers.
It was the first beer Ive had in about 25 years.
I have 1 pina colada when I go the beach.
I learned long ago the repercussions of mixing me and alcohol.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?



If you watched the video and didn't see a problem I didn't think it would help to explain it. 
So what I meant was that I think it's inhumane and abusive to take small children to church and tell them they are born filthy and must dedicate their lives to a god that was responsible for the murder of his own son so they could be "saved" from an eternity of punishment in a lake of fire. And they better do it right because that God will read their minds all of their lives and will punish them if they get out of line. 
Then they get to go home and spend their time worrying if mommy and daddy and all their friends are gonna burn in he11. 

But I guess you gotta indoctrinate them young if you want to keep them in the flock. 

It's good to see at least one member of the believers agrees with me:



red neck richie said:


> Man Is to blame and should be held accountable.


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Snake oil salesman.



Really? Of that I may be, God knows who and what's up for bids.

But Ron Popeil? I mean...have you ever used a Veg-O-Matic? (although it was his dad who invented it).
Look, you could probably guess I got no use for Nobel prizes and the like (unless a letter came today...then...who knows? We'd find out what I really "got no use for")

But this, from Wikipedia...
Popeil received the Ig Nobel Prize in Consumer Engineering in 1993. The awards committee described him as the "incessant inventor and perpetual pitchman of late night television"[5] and awarded the prize in recognition of his "redefining the industrial revolution" with his devices. He is a past member of the Board of Directors Mirage Resorts where he served for 22 years under Steve Wynn as well as a past member of the Board of Directors of MGM Hotels for 7 years under Kirk Kerkorian. He became the recipient of the Electronic Retail Association's Lifetime Achievement award in 2001[6] and he is listed in the Direct Response Hall of Fame.


I mean...OK...you may not like his products, you may not like him, you may have suffered irreparable harm from something he developed...I sure don't know. And maybe you think "marketing" of an idea or invention is de trop or in remarkably bad taste. Fine.

Maybe like this guy:

“The husky, fast-talking industrialist from Connecticut,” Jack Kelly writes in The Invention of the Revolver , “embodied every European stereotype of the American: He was charming and abrasive, self-made and overbearing … as imaginative as he was mercenary, an opportunist, a liar, and a genius.” During the lengthy boat ride, Colt whittled a revolving pistol prototype out of wood, and after a spell as a traveling showman touting the benefits of laughing gas, the young huckster persuaded his family and friends to give him the $230,000 he needed to give the gun making business a shot.

One man's huckster is another man's...uh...

(Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, "He is a good man." Others replied, "No, he deceives the people.")



Now, don't Colt sound just like the all American bullet headed Saxon mother's son?


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

8oz





Israel said:


> Really? Of that I may be, God knows who and what's up for bids.
> 
> But Ron Popeil? I mean...have you ever used a Veg-O-Matic? (although it was his dad who invented it).
> Look, you could probably guess I got no use for Nobel prizes and the like (unless a letter came today...then...who knows? We'd find out what I really "got no use for")
> ...


Don't try to link yourself to Sam Colt.
Ron Popiel was a complimentary stretch. At least he had a product to not meet the claims. 
You just have the claims and advertisements. No product. All marketing for an empty box.

I noticed the prize was not for an actual product but Consumer Engineering.
What is Consumer Engineering?
I can't find a definition for it.
Sounds like it would be having the ability to market products to the masses with no mention of the quality of the products.
You are worthy of the call when it comes.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> If you watched the video and didn't see a problem I didn't think it would help to explain it.



I don't see a problem with parents wanting to pass their convictions along to their children.  Parents around the world do this in a variety of areas, including religion.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Twenty



Twenty-two


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> If you watched the video and didn't see a problem I didn't think it would help to explain it.
> So what I meant was that I think it's inhumane and abusive to take small children to church and tell them they are born filthy and must dedicate their lives to a god that was responsible for the murder of his own son so they could be "saved" from an eternity of punishment in a lake of fire. And they better do it right because that God will read their minds all of their lives and will punish them if they get out of line.
> Then they get to go home and spend their time worrying if mommy and daddy and all their friends are gonna burn in he11.
> 
> ...



Not so fast ky. I only agree if those children were being forced. I am not an advocate of indoctrination. I believe in free will and choice. There is a big difference. It is normal for parents to pass on knowledge to their children.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> So what I meant was that I think it's inhumane and abusive to take small children to church and tell them they are born filthy and must dedicate their lives to a god that was responsible for the murder of his own son so they could be "saved" from an eternity of punishment in a lake of fire. And they better do it right because that God will read their minds all of their lives and will punish them if they get out of line.
> Then they get to go home and spend their time worrying if mommy and daddy and all their friends are gonna burn in he11.



When I was the age of the kids in the video, the most radical thing I heard in church was this:

Jesus loves me
This I know
For the Bible tells me so


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Not so fast ky. I only agree if those children were being forced. I am not an advocate of indoctrination. I believe in free will and choice. There is a big difference.






Children have no free will and choice. 
What is a 10 year old child going to do if they feel uncomfortable in a church service-go outside and get in the car and go down to MacD's and get a happy meal and come back and pick up mom and dad when the service ends?

There are laws almost as old as this country protecting children under the age of 18, and sometimes 21.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Not so fast ky. I only agree if those children were being forced. I am not an advocate of indoctrination. I believe in free will and choice. There is a big difference. It is normal for parents to pass on knowledge to their children.



Maybe you have changed your mind since you said this:



red neck richie said:


> Man Is to blame and should be held accountable.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Not so fast ky. I only agree if those children were being forced. I am not an advocate of indoctrination. I believe in free will and choice. There is a big difference. It is normal for parents to pass on knowledge to their children.



Yeah, no kid has ever stated  "I don't want to go to Sunday School or Church " and was then told that they have to go.
That never happens.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> I don't see a problem with parents wanting to pass their convictions along to their children.  Parents around the world do this in a variety of areas, including religion.


Aw c'mon Centerpin.
My bathtub is deeper than that argument and you know it.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Aw c'mon Centerpin.
> My bathtub is deeper than that argument and you know it.



It's true whether you like it or not.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Children have no free will and choice.
> What is a 10 year old child going to do if they feel uncomfortable in a church service-go outside and get in the car and go down to MacD's and get a happy meal and come back and pick up mom and dad when the service ends?
> 
> There are laws almost as old as this country protecting children under the age of 18, and sometimes 21.



Children have no free will and choice. Really? Mine do. Maybe you should talk to yours more and find out there thoughts and opinions. Mine have never told me they have felt uncomfortable in church and believe me they would have no problem doing so.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> It's true whether you like it or not.


I didn't say it was false.
I said it was shallow.
And you know it is.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I didn't say it was false.
> I said it was shallow.
> And you know it is.



Would you prefer I post something deep and false?


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Children have no free will and choice. Really? Mine do. Maybe you should talk to yours more and find out there thoughts and opinions. Mine have never told me they have felt uncomfortable in church and believe me they would have no problem doing so.


I don't think anyone is arguing that children do not have their own thoughts and opinions. The point is which ones are acknowledged and granted by parents.

Should we believe that if a child of yours comes to you and said "dad I am done going to church" that you would honor that?


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Twenty-two



After a brief drop off, we're now back to twenty-one.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

Twenty-nine!


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Would you prefer I post something deep and false?


I was assuming you recognized theres a bit more to it than "parents teach their kids all sorts of things".

I didn't say I didn't like it.
I haven't even said if I agree or disagree with it.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing that children do not have their own thoughts and opinions. The point is which ones are acknowledged and granted by parents.
> 
> Should we believe that if a child of yours comes to you and said "dad I am done going to church" that you would honor that?



Find out why they don't want to go and if its a legitimate reason other than I'm too tired then yes they don't go. I would honor that. I think you are pointing out extreme cases. There are many bad parents out there Christian or not.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Find out why they don't want to go and if its a legitimate reason other than I'm too tired then yes they don't go. I would honor that. I think you are pointing out extreme cases. There are many bad parents out there Christian or not.



What is your legitimate excuse cutoff?


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> What is your legitimate excuse cutoff?



No cutoff. I take case by case. They are old enough now to understand its their choice.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Children have no free will and choice. Really? Mine do. Maybe you should talk to yours more and find out there thoughts and opinions. Mine have never told me they have felt uncomfortable in church and believe me they would have no problem doing so.


Richie, I'm just curious, if you didn't go to church/believe in God, what do you think the odds are that your kids would have come to you and say "Dad, we have decided we believe in God and not only that we want to start going to church every Sunday".


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Richie, I'm just curious, if you didn't go to church/believe in God, what do you think the odds are that your kids would have come to you and say "Dad, we have decided we believe in God and not only that we want to start going to church every Sunday".



I don't have the time to do the math to figure out the odds. I take it your point is that they wouldn't be very high. My point is I try to encourage them to develop a personal relationship with God. I don't force them to do it. There are no two people the same. So I just plant the seed and let God water it in his time not mine. I try to prepare them for the challenges they will face in adulthood. And they know they will face struggles but they will never face them alone. But most important that they know they are loved by me as well as their creator.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Hypocrisy is you talking about someone being perfectly holy. At least others have a limit.



Try to stick with  the truth if possible.  I said God was Holy.  I'm the biggest sinner I know.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You will be.  You will be found guilty of not being perfectly Holy and you will be condemned for all eternity to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored because you willfully rejected Christ who died so that you may live.  And you will have no one to blame but yourself.  A man of your intellect cannot plead ignorance while children readily accept Christ.   The old saying "Too smart for your own good." rings true.  Make all the pseudo-intellectual excuses you wish, they won't stand in the face of the Truth (Christ Jesus).  And yet he still stands at your door and knocks until you are no more.


SFD,truth? Try to remember what you post.
It doesn't sound like you were talking about God above.
If you were talking about God, by your own words, Hades will be full including each and every one of us in here and worldwide.
Nobody meets the criteria you say.


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> 8oz
> Don't try to link yourself to Sam Colt.
> Ron Popiel was a complimentary stretch. At least he had a product to not meet the claims.
> You just have the claims and advertisements. No product. All marketing for an empty box.
> ...




Sam Colt...are you kidding? I was out with my first reply.


The link was Ron and Sam.
(I kinda thought it might be cutting a little close to home if I even let a hint of derision pass through...I mean...Samuel Colt, for goodness' sake!) But before this becomes too much fun and I breach, or broach, or whatever... Can I say it one time? 
Samuel Colt.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

Ron is not worthy of Sam's shadow, let alone mentioning him in the same sentence as Sam.

So again I ask you, What is Consumer Engineering?


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Ron is not worthy of Sam's shadow, let alone mentioning him in the same sentence as Sam.
> 
> So again I ask you, What is Consumer Engineering?


LOL...C'mon man, you're killing me here.
Regardless of awards, Ron is no better nor worse than any other man, but if you feel like he's your go to guy for all that is abhorrent, well, Neo, you will learn as I had to, knowing the way, and walking the way, are two different things.

Don't provoke me further or I will be pressed to utter that unspeakable name again through these unclean lips...or at least crumb studded keyboard.


S-S-S-Sa...(this is me, relenting)


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

Israel said:


> LOL...C'mon man, you're killing me here.
> Regardless of awards, Ron is no better nor worse than any other man, but if you feel like he's your go to guy for all that is abhorrent, well, Neo, you will learn as I had to, knowing the way, and walking the way, are two different things.
> 
> Don't provoke me further or I will be pressed to utter that unspeakable name again through these unclean lips...or at least crumb studded keyboard.
> ...



All I was saying, before you made it into something else, was that you are the Ron Popiel of the AAA forum.
And I told you why I made the comparison.
You took it elsewhere and added in awards and drug in Sam Colt.

Since you brought it up, I still want to know what a Consumer Engineer is. Nobel committee must have made it up for one person. 

I wish you could be provoked to provide anything to back up your claims.


----------



## Israel (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> All I was saying, before you made it into something else, was that you are the Ron Popiel of the AAA forum.
> And I told you why I made the comparison.
> You took it elsewhere and added in awards and drug in Sam Colt.
> 
> ...



Nice transition.

I'll gladly bear the snake oil salesman epithet...after all, what would be a fitting rebuttal of response "I have never lied?" That would be just too funny to post.

So, yeah...compare me with Ron, (who as far as I can read on Wikipedia got some kinds of awards...including [who'd a thunk it...?] some Nobel thingy) 

Maybe it ain't like the other "Nobel", could be named after Irv or Harvey Nobel, or both, like two brothers from Waukegan who sold Fuller Brush door to door...and decided to make up some award. 

Like I said...your point was a "hopeful' slander, but really, for a guy who knows Hitler and I play on a level field...it's just very amusing.


And if Wikipedia got it wrong...well ooops, my bad. I'm pretty sure I attributed somewhere, but that's not really the point at all...is it? 

Like I said...nice transition. 

If you can take a silly attempt at slander and turn it..."see, he never backs up what he says"...ya think you're off the hook.
Well, let's put a little back into it. This...not...from Wikipedia.
You ever notice how much you like to say "we" in your posts...as if you feel you can speak for the forum? 

Maybe some have overlooked it, maybe some have been willing to let you have your lead as a useful attack dog in a fight that's sensed as being waged...God knows. And because of this, and for this...or some other reason (maybe there's an unspoken agreement amongst the fellowship?) 

I don't know that anyone's ever brought it up, but go ahead...look back at how often the "we" comes up. If others are good with the appearance of you speaking for them (or do you speak of another "we"?) it's sure not for me to tell them to get their pitchforks and torches. 


Besides, at this point it's kinda silly. Cause it's obvious you've assumed some sort of position from which you believe you should dictate "how long" a post should be...whether it might appear as well... blogging...or irrelevant to what you believe is being said, and taking place...kinda like the mantle of proper forum etiquette is on you and from there it's yours to administer. Yeah, me confessing to being a bloated blowhard isn't particularly difficult. If you think you're the first to point that out...well...everyone is allowed a hobby. Right?


But here's what I wanted to tell you. Don't be too concerned about going all "fan boy" over Samuel Colt, I'm almost sure no one noticed. Well, not really completely sure. It's this thing you know, some are pretty sensitive to it, smell it when it pops up. It's what many believers have to bear from certain folks "Oh, look, another fan boy for Jesus..." So, those skilled, (or clever) in applying it, and seeing it (or mistakenly seeing it), still find that whole "fan boy" thing...well...vacuous.

Now to be fair...it's easy to mistake an appreciation for a "Sam Harris", and who knows...he may even have a fan boy or two willing to pop up and say "hey, wait a minute...you ain't no Sam Harris! Wipe that name from your lips!" But...I really doubt that. See? Some really do have enough insight to admit, even if they might hate to admit it, that there's a line that's hard to cross...except for the immature and grossly inexperienced (who cross just about anything and everything).  

Neither knowing much about themselves...and as little about "how things are"...it's remarkably simple for them to upbraid and denigrate, belittle and insult...according to some imagined intellectual insight...as remarkably bestowed upon them as the faith they say is fraudulent in others. See, because some of them know, have considered, have watched and learned...there may or must be something else going on here besides sheer stupidity that produces a ...well...CS Lewis. 

Maybe even mental defect kinda falls here, too. Cause they know, even if not in agreement with someone like him...he is neither a stupid man nor particularly "mad" appearing being. And he hardly comes off to them...as a dupe...or "fan boy" for Jesus. But the list of "those" sort...who all here on this forum would be hard pressed to "out credential" in any metric...is formidable. And they know it. So...for them at least it's not quite as easy to slander with cleverly framed remarks, cause they may know, in some incipient glowing ember there could be "more to it" than just being a smart mouth.

I just use brother Lewis as a readily recognized example...but for neither slander...nor exaltation. He was and is, simply who he is.

But, even if an Einstein or Hawking suddenly appeared disposed to join this discussion, be assured the "fan boy" antennas would still be fully operational.

You see, all the patent answers and questions don't really work very well. The common claim of you are simply a "cultural christian", you're just a moral and mental defective given to superstition and religion, and if you were born in Mumbai, you'd forswear eating cows. But some don't turn that equation very well, as smart as they are, their maths are a little deficient. 

I've never heard one muse out loud, publicly, at least here (unless I've missed it) "I wonder if I'd be quite so vociferously a deriding atheist if I was living in Mecca".


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

Israel said:


> Nice transition.
> 
> I'll gladly bear the snake oil salesman epithet...after all, what would be a fitting rebuttal of response "I have never lied?" That would be just too funny to post.
> 
> ...


I stopped reading at slander.
Slander is spoken or oral...
Libel is what you are looking for.

You would have to actually back up your claims in order for anything that I have said to be false. I'd look forward to you producing a god if you want to take it that far, since you admitted to glady bearing the snake oil salesman epithet. Since my statements are made as my opinion, good luck


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

Boy's seriously. Your intellectual urination contest is not amusing. Don't make it personal.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I don't have the time to do the math to figure out the odds. I take it your point is that they wouldn't be very high. My point is I try to encourage them to develop a personal relationship with God. I don't force them to do it. There are no two people the same. So I just plant the seed and let God water it in his time not mine. I try to prepare them for the challenges they will face in adulthood. And they know they will face struggles but they will never face them alone. But most important that they know they are loved by me as well as their creator.


I'm not questioning why you do it. I have no doubt you have the best of intentions.  


> So I just plant the seed and let God water it in his time not mine.


God only waters? He needs you to plant the seed?
Its interesting to me that when you hear people's personal testimony you NEVER hear "well my parents were trying to prepare me for adulthood".
What you hear is " this event happened or that event happened".
You have stated a number of times that you yourself are not indoctrinated as though "indoctrinated" is a dirty word. But you seem oblivious to the fact that you are in fact doing the indoctrinating.
You realize that you are intentionally planting the seed.
You don't realize that's indoctrinating them. 


> I don't force them to do it


I'm sure you don't put a gun to their head and say "YOU WILL BELIEVE". But you are kidding yourself (or trying to kid us) by using this "oh they have free will to decide" nonsense while at the same time doing your best to bend their "free will" in the direction of what YOU think is right for them.

When I was a kid I couldn't care less if my parents spanked me. 
The real punishment was knowing I disappointed them.


----------



## bullethead (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Boy's seriously. Your intellectual urination contest is not amusing. Don't make it personal.



It's all a little personal when we all are asking direct questions to someone else making direct statements, I was unaware that( I THINK )some seem thin skinned when something that I have opined may be a little too accurate.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm not questioning why you do it. I have no doubt you have the best of intentions.
> 
> God only waters? He needs you to plant the seed?
> Its interesting to me that when you hear people's personal testimony you NEVER hear "well my parents were trying to prepare me for adulthood".
> ...



Walt God doesn't need me to plant the seed at all. It is my responsibility to pass on knowledge to my children. To prepare them for the things the world will throw at them. Things I have learned or have come to know as true through my life experiences I pass on to them. It is their choice to accept it or reject it. But when you have disappointed someone you don't think they shouldn't be made aware? You should hold everything inside and not talk about it. I'm sure you learned a lot of life lessons from your parents weather religious or not. BTW my children know the difference between disappointment in their choice and love. Also Walt I didn't grow up in church, my parents didn't go. I came to my own conclusions on my own life experiences. Like I told bullet I could go there but it is very personal to me and you would just try to discredit it anyways. Just to give you a clue my grandfather and father were both marines. My grandfather fought in the Korean war and my father just got out before nam. Don't talk to me about indoctrination. Back then if you stepped out of line you were lucky to get a spanking. Sometimes you just got punched in the head.  Religion is not the problem man is.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm not questioning why you do it. I have no doubt you have the best of intentions.
> 
> God only waters? He needs you to plant the seed?
> Its interesting to me that when you hear people's personal testimony you NEVER hear "well my parents were trying to prepare me for adulthood".
> ...



100% spot on.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm not questioning why you do it. I have no doubt you have the best of intentions.
> 
> God only waters? He needs you to plant the seed?
> Its interesting to me that when you hear people's personal testimony you NEVER hear "well my parents were trying to prepare me for adulthood".
> ...



There is no shortage of people/groups who want to indoctrinate our kids.  A good parent chooses the doctrine and the teacher.


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## Israel (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> There is no shortage of people/groups who want to indoctrinate our kids.  A good parent chooses the doctrine and the teacher.



Truth.


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## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

Israel said:


> Truth.



Truth!


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## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> There is no shortage of people/groups who want to indoctrinate our kids.  A good parent chooses the doctrine and the teacher.



Pick yer poison.


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## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Pick yer poison.



You mean like whiskey and water?


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Walt God doesn't need me to plant the seed at all. It is my responsibility to pass on knowledge to my children. To prepare them for the things the world will throw at them. Things I have learned or have come to know as true through my life experiences I pass on to them. It is their choice to accept it or reject it. But when you have disappointed someone you don't think they shouldn't be made aware? You should hold everything inside and not talk about it. I'm sure you learned a lot of life lessons from your parents weather religious or not. BTW my children know the difference between disappointment in their choice and love. Also Walt I didn't grow up in church, my parents didn't go. I came to my own conclusions on my own life experiences. Like I told bullet I could go there but it is very personal to me and you would just try to discredit it anyways. Just to give you a clue my grandfather and father were both marines. My grandfather fought in the Korean war and my father just got out before nam. Don't talk to me about indoctrination. Back then if you stepped out of line you were lucky to get a spanking. Sometimes you just got punched in the head.  Religion is not the problem man is.





> It is my responsibility to pass on knowledge to my children.


Of course it is.
Are we going to pretend that parents only pass on knowledge that has a positive effect on their kids and those around them?
How bout those kids at Westboro Baptist? You see them holding signs and screaming how our servicemen deserved to die. They don't have a clue what it is they are actually screaming about. 
They are doing it because mommy and daddy fulfilled their responsibility of passing on to them what they have learned and know to be true.


> I came to my own conclusions on my own life experiences.


As it should be.
Is that how your kids came to believe in God? Through their life experiences?


> It is their choice to accept it or reject it.


If your wife tells you that she will be very disappointed and hurt if you go fishing today.
Its your choice to reject it or accept it.
If you value your relationship with your wife, want it to last and don't want to see her hurt.... whatcha gonna do?


> To prepare them for the things the world will throw at them.


You mean like that in this world people kill each other over opposing religious beliefs?
You figure "they are wrong and you are right even though you cant prove that" has a positive effect or a negative effect on that particular problem they are going to face?
Or does it almost guarantee that the problem is perpetuated?


> I'm sure you learned a lot of life lessons from your parents weather religious or not.


Yes I did.
And some of them I had to reject because they weren't positive lessons they were just what they were taught.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> You mean like whiskey and water?



Hmmmmm, that's interesting. 
Would "whiskey" and water send you straight to he11 on a non-stop flight?
And Scotch is spelled "whisky". 
The American spelling for bourbon and such is "whiskey" with an "e". 
You seem to have shown some sort of an obsession with the black label in my little avatar picture all through this thread. 
If you are obsessed with the subject you need to at least get the spelling correct before you start on any condemnation you might have in mind.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Pick yer poison.



I choose the Sermon on the Mount.


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## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> There is no shortage of people/groups who want to indoctrinate our kids.  A good parent chooses the doctrine and the teacher.



Would you be offended if I started referring to you as Capt. Obvious? 

Is that what makes a good parent? That they choose the doctrine and the teacher?


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Hmmmmm, that's interesting.
> Would "whiskey" and water send you straight to he11 on a non-stop flight?
> And Scotch is spelled "whisky".
> The American spelling for bourbon and such is "whiskey" with an "e".
> ...



No I spelled it that way on purpose. Just pointing out the hypocrisy on both sides. You drink what you like I will drink what I like. Its funny you point out the difference in spelling of liquor but you pick out an extreme video and put us all in the same category related to my religious beliefs. Funny meaning odd not I'm a clown funny. That's for you centerpin.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Is that what makes a good parent? That they choose the doctrine and the teacher?



It's one aspect of being a good parent.  It's why so many Christian parents choose home schooling or religious schools.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> No I spelled it that way on purpose. Just pointing out the hypocrisy on both sides. You drink what you like I will drink what I like. Its funny you point out the difference in spelling of liquor but you pick out an extreme video and put us all in the same category related to our religious beliefs. Funny meaning odd not I'm a clown funny. That's for you centerpin.




Reminds me of the guy who falls down and gets back up and looks around and says,"I meant to do that"!



Your credibility just went from a very bottom-level maybe to a crash-and-burn way down below absolute zero.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> It's one aspect of being a good parent.  It's why so many Christian parents choose home schooling or religious schools.


Sure you don't mean -
its good because that way they will learn to think and believe exactly what I do.
And yes that can be good.
And on the flip side you also may be "stunting" their intellectual ability by training them to "think like you" instead of just "thinking".
Why doesn't the Christian parent have their child attend Christian school for a couple of years? Then have them attend an Islamic school and then maybe a public school....
Woudn't that provide them a lot more knowledge and experiences to draw from which will make them a more well rounded person and give them an advantage when out in a world full of different beliefs etc?
Why jut a Christian school and only a Christian school?


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Reminds me of the guy who falls down and gets back up and looks around and says,"I meant to do that"!
> 
> 
> 
> Your credibility just went from a very bottom-level maybe to a crash-and-burn way down below absolute zero.



Did you watch the goodfellas video when they were all drinking whiskey. The clown funny video did you watch it? Lets sit around and watch extreme videos while we drink whiskey. You spell it how you would like that's how I spell it or see it. Fortunately for me your credit rating means nothing. I meant on purpose that's the way I spell whiskey no matter what kind not that I'm a connoisseur.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Did you watch the goodfellas video when they were all drinking whiskey. The clown funny video did you watch it? Lets sit around and watch extreme videos while we drink whiskey. You spell it how you would like that's how I spell it or see it. fortunately for me your credit raring means nothing.


That's an awesome scene


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> No I spelled it that way on purpose.





You know richie, 
I'll be perfectly honest and personal with you. I have almost zero education past a HS diploma. I have always considered myself as being somewhere toward the upper end of the bottom 50% as far as average intelligence. 

But I am smart enough to know with 100% certainty when I am engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> You know richie,
> I'll be perfectly honest and personal with you. I have almost zero education past a HS diploma. I have always considered myself as being somewhere toward the upper end of the bottom 50% as far as average intelligence.
> 
> But I am smart enough to know with 100% certainty when I am engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!



I will be perfectly honest with you your insults do not bother me but it does reveal your level of intelligence. When you don't have anything to add to the conversation you go to insults. Keep drinking the black label whiskey bro. This post is quiet revealing to who you really are.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> You know richie,
> I'll be perfectly honest and personal with you. I have almost zero education past a HS diploma. I have always considered myself as being somewhere toward the upper end of the bottom 50% as far as average intelligence.
> 
> But I am smart enough to know with 100% certainty when I am engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!


I think Richie is probably a good guy with his heart in the right place. 
He's just indoctrinated and doesn't know he's indoctrinated.
With that indoctrination comes the difficulty in grasping opposing points.
Its possible he's a genius on a host of other subjects!


> I have almost zero education past a HS diploma


You got me beat so don't be hard on yourself


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think Richie is probably a good guy with his heart in the right place.
> He's just indoctrinated and doesn't know he's indoctrinated.
> With that indoctrination comes the difficulty in grasping opposing points.
> Its possible he's a genius on a host of other subjects!
> ...



Walt I respect your opinion. I dropped out of college after my freshman year because I was flat broke and had to support myself. Not that you care but I didn't go to church much as a youth so there was no way an indoctrination took place.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Walt I respect your opinion. I dropped out of college after my freshman year because I was flat broke and had to support myself.


I went to a few different colleges.
For the parties not because I actually attended them


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think Richie is probably a good guy with his heart in the right place.
> He's just indoctrinated and doesn't know he's indoctrinated.
> With that indoctrination comes the difficulty in grasping opposing points.
> Its possible he's a genius on a host of other subjects!
> ...



Walt, 
Once again I agree with you 100% on all points of your post. 
I'm sure if richie lived close to me we could hunt and fish together every day and enjoy each other's company. 
But most people know when the hole they are in gets so deep that they just gotta quit digging.  

Thanks for another good comment.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Walt,
> Once again I agree with you 100% on all points of your post.
> I'm sure if richie lived close to me we could hunt and fish together every day and enjoy each other's company.
> But most people know when the hole they are in gets so deep that they just gotta quit digging.
> ...


I think then you fit in here well. That's pretty much the overall opinion of each other with the "regulars" here on both sides. We get the occasional "rabid dog" from both sides but we typically run them off.
And some of us actually have met up and fished and hunted together and had a great time and if we can ever get our various schedules to sync etc are going to do it again. You would certainly be welcome.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I went to a few different colleges.
> For the parties not because I actually attended them



I went through rush with sigma nu at Georgia state even though I wasn't enrolled. I went just for the frat parties. Everybody assumes just because you love the lord you were this choir boy or are always perfect. Stereotypes.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I went through rush with sigma nu at Georgia state even though I wasn't enrolled. I went just for the frat parties. Everybody assumes just because you love the lord you were this choir boy or are always perfect. Stereotypes.


I assure you I don't believe the stereotype.
I personally know people who were very bad and I mean very, very bad who now love the Lord.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think then you fit in here well. That's pretty much the overall opinion of each other with the "regulars" here on both sides. We get the occasional "rabid dog" from both sides but we typically run them off.
> And some of us actually have met up and fished and hunted together and had a great time and if we can ever get our various schedules to sync etc are going to do it again. You would certainly be welcome.



So you don't fish with Christians? Are you afraid we wiggle our worms too well and you might bite? I find it interesting that Jesus would pick an average everyday fisherman to be a disciple.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> So you don't fish with Christians? Are you afraid we wiggle our worms too well and you might bite?


Most of the people I fish with are Christians. Most of my friends either are Christian or believe in a god in some way.
They know what my thoughts are on God/gods/religion and I know what their thoughts are.
Our friendships are based on respect, trust and how we treat each other.
They don't wiggle.
I wont bite.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Most of the people I fish with are Christians. Most of my friends either are Christian or believe in a god in some way.
> They know what my thoughts are on God/gods/religion and I know what their thoughts are.
> Our friendships are based on respect, trust and how we treat each other.
> They don't wiggle.
> I wont bite.



98% of my friends and family are Christians. 
I love all of them dearly and would do anything any time for all of them.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> 98% of my friends and family are Christians.
> I love all of them dearly and would do anything any time for all of them.


I like when they have bake sales at their churches.
Some of those Christian women can do some seriously good baking


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Most of the people I fish with are Christians. Most of my friends either are Christian or believe in a god in some way.
> They know what my thoughts are on God/gods/religion and I know what their thoughts are.
> Our friendships are based on respect, trust and how we treat each other.
> They don't wiggle.
> I wont bite.



I can respect that although I don't know you personally you seem to be a good man. You don't take comments on this forum personally and you don't insult others I have much respect for that. Although we all like a good joke.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Back up your point.
> 
> Good, evil and dignity exist. Your god is the only thing consistently missing and the one item that you constantly claim but cannot produce.
> Why is that SFD?



Produce?  Apples and Oranges are produce and yet you boast of not being able to differentiate between them.  I hardly think you're ready to use that term as a verb.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I like when they have bake sales at their churches.
> Some of those Christian women can do some seriously good baking



I spent all day last Saturday helping at our local church's yard sale.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Back up your point.
> 
> Good, evil and dignity exist. Your god is the only thing consistently missing and the one item that you constantly claim but cannot produce.
> Why is that SFD?





bullethead said:


> Nobody meets the criteria you say.



Literally,  I wonder could you be any more blind.  Could your disdain for God be so great that you missed the most salient point in human history?  I guess it's possible given you and your folks problems with apples and oranges but................jeez.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I can respect that although I don't know you personally you seem to be a good man. You don't take comments on this forum personally and you don't insult others I have much respect for that. Although we all like a good joke.


Thank You.
And I love a good joke. Even if they are played on me. As long as they don't hurt too much


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> I spent all day last Saturday helping at our local church's yard sale.


Bake sales are much better than yard sales.
If I'm going to support my friends churches I want a cake not a used lamp


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Bake sales are much better than yard sales.
> If I'm going to support my friends churches I want a cake not a used lamp



Haha!!
Yeah we bought a table and sold some little trinkets for pennies, so the Church got the money for the table and everything else went to Goodwill. 
My wife and sister-in-lawn presented the trophy for the annual car show (named in honor of their dad) that we have in the parking lot along with the yard sale. 
Best part was I cleared enough money to buy myself a bottle of Scotch whisky.
I had to go slumming with the red label-didn't clear enough for a bottle of black.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Haha!!
> Yeah we bought a table and sold some little trinkets for pennies, so the Church got the money for the table and everything else went to Goodwill.
> My wife and sister-in-lawn presented the trophy for the annual car show (named in honor of their dad) that we have in the parking lot along with the yard sale.
> Best part was I cleared enough money to buy myself a bottle of Scotch whisky.
> I had to go slumming with the red label-didn't clear enough for a bottle of black.


I was a die hard sour mash man years ago.
Don't you have to raise your pinky or something when you drink that blended stuff?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> So what I meant was that I think it's inhumane and abusive to take small children to church and tell them they.......(insert straw-man)



Inhumane?  Not human?  Really?  Honestly Brother you are now officially my favorite Athiest.  So it's HUMANE teaching them they are ANIMALS, but it's INHUMANE  to teach them that because they are created in the image of God their life and that of all others has infinite sanctity and value.   PLEASE KEEP POSTING!!!!!  You have the most concise way of illustrating the absurdity the atheistic premises I have ever witnessed.  It's truely a gift.  It has to be.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I was a die hard sour mash man years ago.
> Don't you have to raise your pinky or something when you drink that blended stuff?



Yes. 
You have to raise your pinky and slightly lower your left eyebrow when you sip blended Scotch whisky. 
I have never been able to afford a bottle of single-malt Scotch, but I promise you I will diligently research the rituals required before I even crack the top on the bottle. 

"Sour mash", such as Jack Daniels, is da debil in sheep's clothing. It is a true abomination before the Lord. 

Bourbon requires a minimum of 51% corn mash distilled and then aged for a minimum of one year, in KY, in a charred white oak barrel. 

We're kinda picky about that.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Yes.
> You have to raise your pinky and slightly lower your left eyebrow when you sip blended Scotch whisky.
> I have never been able to afford a bottle of single-malt Scotch, but I promise you I will diligently research the rituals required before I even crack the top on the bottle.
> 
> ...





> "Sour mash", such as Jack Daniels, is da debil in sheep's clothing.


Yeah I found that out.


> It is a true abomination before the Lord


And even worse than that is those nasty cheese sandwiches they serve in lock up.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Inhumane?  Not human?  Really?  Honestly Brother you are now officially my favorite Athiest.



Thank you. 
It brings a tear to my eye to know that as I enter the twilight of my years I have finally been recognized for even this small accomplishment.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> And even worse than that is those nasty cheese sandwiches they serve in lock up.



Now that is funny!!


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Yeah I found that out.
> 
> And even worse than that is those nasty cheese sandwiches they serve in lock up.



You got cheese? I only got peanut butter. Did you tell them you had an allergy or something?


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Now that is funny!!


You would think that after numerous times you would finally develop a tolerance to those sandwiches.
I never could so I quit drinking instead


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> You got cheese? I only got peanut butter. Did you tell them you had an allergy or something?


Nope cheese was the menu.
I'm glad it wasnt peanut butter though. I have to have a tall cold glass of milk when I eat peanut butter.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

Walt, 
did you know that some of the best Scotch produced in the last 100 years has been aged in KY bourbon barrels that can only be used once in KY?
They are then sold and shipped to Scotland.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> You would think that after numerous times you would finally develop a tolerance to those sandwiches.
> I never could so I quit drinking instead



Walt, you must have ended up in the long term lock up. 
All of us that got bonded or bailed out pretty quick got the government commodity cheese. 
Sometimes we would smack a guard just to get a couple of extra days of that cheese. We had to put a piece of screen wire across our butt cracks to keep the rats out.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> The only difference between the apples and the oranges is YOU believe in one and not the other.



A 2 year old can tell the difference between an apple and orange yet you maintain that an Athiest cannot and that neither truely exists.   THE UTTER ABSURDITY OF ATHEISM.  Nothing I can add to that.  It speaks for itself.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Walt,
> did you know that some of the best Scotch produced in the last 100 years has been aged in KY bourbon barrels that can only be used once in KY?
> They are then sold and shipped to Scotland.


Nope didn't know that. Interesting factoid though!
I never achieved the "finer points of drinking" level.
I drank to get drunk.
Enter the cheese sandwiches.......


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Walt, you must have ended up in the long term lock up.
> All of us that got bonded or bailed out pretty quick got the government commodity cheese.
> Sometimes we would smack a guard just to get a couple of extra days of that cheese. We had to put a piece of screen wire across our butt cracks to keep the rats out.



I doubt it I got slop on a tray with apiece of dried out cake when I was put back in gen pop. J pod to be exact. Point is I had the same result as Walt when I drank that stuff.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> A 2 year old can tell the difference between an apple and orange yet you maintain that an Athiest cannot and that neither truely exists.   THE UTTER ABSURDITY OF ATHEISM.  Nothing I can add to that.  It speaks for itself.


You are on a roll today. Somebody pee in your Wheaties this morning?
There are attributes given to your god. We'll call that apple.
There are attributes given to their god. We'll call that orange.
I assume the average Atheist could tell the difference in the attributes that you and they have given your apples and their oranges.
Unfortunately neither of you can prove that your apple or orange actually exist.
Absurd I know.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Nope didn't know that. Interesting factoid though!
> I never achieved the "finer points of drinking" level.
> I drank to get drunk.
> Enter the cheese sandwiches.......



Yep, whiskey distilled in Bourbon County KY was marked "Bourbon" on the barrels and delivered down the river to the main market at that time-New Orleans.  
The river boats were of no use then so the crews walked back up the Natchez Trace and came home.


----------



## red neck richie (May 29, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> I doubt it I got slop on a tray with apiece of dried out cake when I was put back in gen pop. J pod to be exact. Point is I had the same result as Walt when I drank that stuff.



On the bright side I did learn how to light a cigarette from an on/off switch using a gum wrapper.


----------



## ky55 (May 29, 2017)

The origin of KY Bourbon has been traced back to a Baptist minister named Elijah Craig....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Craig_(bourbon)

Man I love those Baptists!!


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Produce?  Apples and Oranges are produce and yet you boast of not being able to differentiate between them.  I hardly think you're ready to use that term as a verb.



The problem is just that,  you hardly think .


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> A 2 year old can tell the difference between an apple and orange yet you maintain that an Athiest cannot and that neither truely exists.   THE UTTER ABSURDITY OF ATHEISM.  Nothing I can add to that.  It speaks for itself.



Having problems with the complexity of a metaphor SFD???


----------



## 660griz (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Yes.
> You have to raise your pinky and slightly lower your left eyebrow when you sip blended Scotch whisky.
> I have never been able to afford a bottle of single-malt Scotch, but I promise you I will diligently research the rituals required before I even crack the top on the bottle.
> 
> ...



We did the 'Bourbon Trail' a few times. (on motorcycles) Put our names on a Makers Mark barrel. Went up this year and picked up our bottles with our name on the label. Good stuff but, like my Daddy use to say, "Everything in moderation Son."


----------



## WaltL1 (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Inhumane?  Not human?  Really?  Honestly Brother you are now officially my favorite Athiest.  So it's HUMANE teaching them they are ANIMALS, but it's INHUMANE  to teach them that because they are created in the image of God their life and that of all others has infinite sanctity and value.   PLEASE KEEP POSTING!!!!!  You have the most concise way of illustrating the absurdity the atheistic premises I have ever witnessed.  It's truely a gift.  It has to be.





> So it's HUMANE teaching them they are ANIMALS,





> Humans are classified as animals. The human's phylum is Chordata (vertebrate). The human's class is mammalia. It's order is primate (the same as apes). It's family is Hominidae (apes that have no tail and can gather food with their hands.) The Human's sub-family is Homininae


.
I guess you could lie to them.


----------



## 660griz (May 30, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Everybody assumes just because you love the lord you were this choir boy or are always perfect. Stereotypes.



Nobody that has been around Christians assumes that.

They just assume you will be forgiven on Sunday or your death bed.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 30, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> .
> I guess you could lie to them.



And they do in school teaching evolution, but that's a separate subject.  I'm not sure how our society came to the point where a theory of evolution is taught to our kids by people who boast in their inability to differentiate between exclusive truth statements, but here we are.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 30, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Having problems with the complexity of a metaphor SFD???



Let me know if you ever master differentiating apples and oranges.


----------



## 660griz (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> differentiate between exclusive truth statements, but here we are.



You have any examples of the exclusive truth statements those teachers can't differentiate between?


----------



## WaltL1 (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> And they do in school teaching evolution, but that's a separate subject.  I'm not sure how our society came to the point where a theory of evolution is taught to our kids by people who boast in their inability to differentiate between exclusive truth statements, but here we are.





> I'm not sure how our society came to the point where a theory of evolution is taught to our kids


Its pretty simple really.
Society has deemed that teaching facts and educated guesses based on what we can prove and what we know is the most beneficial way to educate the masses. If and when what we know changes, we update what we teach.
Why?


> differentiate between exclusive truth statements,


It seems every religion has their own version of the truth that is exclusive to them. When one religion can actually prove what it is that they preach, I assume that will be taught.
But until then......


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> And they do in school teaching evolution, but that's a separate subject.  I'm not sure how our society came to the point where a theory of evolution is taught to our kids by people who boast in their inability to differentiate between exclusive truth statements, but here we are.



How would you teach creationism?  What would you say?  Would you say something like "Some people believe that the Universe was created by the God of Abraham.  He willed the Universe into existence as described in the the Bible in the book of Genesis.  The proof of this is ____________"?   Can you fill in the blank?  

Would you also tell them that the Buddhists and the Native Americans and the Pagans have their own ideas about how the Universe came into being?  Would you tell them those mythologies, apples to apples?


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Let me know if you ever master differentiating apples and oranges.



Acoording to you your god is either an apple or an orange. I'm not the one confused.

I/we used your reference.


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

Semper Fi,

How would you teach a child how to assess the credibility of a claim?  How would you teach them to be able to rationally examine the truth of an advertisement?  Isn't part of good parenting teaching kids how to assess manipulative messages directed at them?  The claims about evolution have a very long trail of evidence to support them.  How long is the trail of evidence that supports a creationist theory?


----------



## ky55 (May 30, 2017)

660griz said:


> We did the 'Bourbon Trail' a few times. (on motorcycles) Put our names on a Makers Mark barrel. Went up this year and picked up our bottles with our name on the label. Good stuff but, like my Daddy use to say, "Everything in moderation Son."



There's a lot to be said for moderation!
Maker's is the best bourbon going for the money in my opinion.


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Semper Fi,
> 
> How would you teach a child how to assess the credibility of a claim?  How would you teach them to be able to rationally examine the truth of an advertisement?  Isn't part of good parenting teaching kids how to assess manipulative messages directed at them?  The claims about evolution have a very long trail of evidence to support them.  How long is the trail of evidence that supports a creationist theory?


He can't support anything that he has yet to prove.
He acts as if Atheists, Agnostics and believers in other gods KNOW the Christian god exists but they refuse to acknowledge it. He continues on and on as if everyone is sitting on mounds of evidence for a god but just doesn't use it, when in actuality he is the one that continually cannot provide a shred of evidence. He just likes to pop in and out telling everyone how incompetent they are and cannot engage in any meaningful conversation to back up his claims.

I can't wait for his replies to yours and mine.


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> There's a lot to be said for moderation!
> Maker's is the best bourbon going for the money in my opinion.



Everything in moderation, including moderation.


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

bullethead said:


> He can't support anything that he has yet to prove.
> He acts as if Atheists, Agnostics and believers in other gods KNOW the Christian god exists but they refuse to acknowledge it. He continues on and on as if everyone is sitting on mounds of evidence for a god but just doesn't use it, when in actuality he is the one that continually cannot provide a shred of evidence. He just likes to pop in and out telling everyone how incompetent they are and cannot engage in any meaningful conversation to back up his claims.
> 
> I can't wait for his replies to yours and mine.



Give him a chance.

Semper Fi,

Pretend I'm a 3rd grader.  Tell me how the Universe began and tell me how you know.  It's so easy a child can understand, right?  Well, I'll ask questions like a child would.  It should be pretty easy to convince me.


----------



## ky55 (May 30, 2017)

bullethead said:


> He acts as if Atheists, Agnostics and believers in other gods KNOW the Christian god exists but they refuse to acknowledge it.



I've often wondered where all the hatred and bitterness comes from. 
I think that statement explains it a lot better than I've ever been able to do.


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> I've often wondered where all the hatred and bitterness comes from.
> I think that statement explains it a lot better than I've ever been able to do.




If the roles were reversed, it would be called a sign of the Spirit convicting someone.  Is it getting harder to believe the unbelievable, SemperFi?


----------



## ky55 (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> I've often wondered where all the hatred and bitterness comes from.
> I think that statement explains it a lot better than I've ever been able to do.



Crickets?


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Crickets?



It's a typical tactic. A few love to bicker over intangibles and post about things that have nothing to do with the direct questions asked.
Then when pressed,  when an honest  direct answer is the only option, they will take a hiatus only to pop in when they think we have forgotten about it. 
Sfd will use this post to bicker over and avoid the previous ones.


----------



## ky55 (May 30, 2017)

bullethead said:


> It's a typical tactic. A few love to bicker over intangibles and post about things that have nothing to do with the direct questions asked.
> Then when pressed,  when an honest  direct answer is the only option, they will take a hiatus only to pop in when they think we have forgotten about it.
> Sfd will use this post to bicker over and avoid the previous ones.



Thanks for the info. 
I've been around the site for a while but I mostly hang out with the guys in the Cafe forum. 
It's amazing the amount of hatred that can be rained down on you in this forum for a simple difference of opinion.


----------



## bullethead (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I've been around the site for a while but I mostly hang out with the guys in the Cafe forum.
> It's amazing the amount of hatred that can be rained down on you in this forum for a simple difference of opinion.



Truth is,  we all (each side) know what to expect from the other and more specifically who will reply and how.
That is why many convos get right to the chase and eliminate the build up.
I will admit that many times I expect one thing and get another that while I may not totally agree with, it wasnt the answer I would have bet on. Many of the guys that contrubite are well spoken and are extremely knowledgeable to talk to. It's  just a handful that have nothing to back up their claims except more unprovable claims.


----------



## ambush80 (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I've been around the site for a while but I mostly hang out with the guys in the Cafe forum.
> It's amazing the amount of hatred that can be rained down on you in this forum for a simple difference of opinion.



It's not hatred.


----------



## ky55 (May 30, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> It's not hatred.



It certainly isn't from my side.


----------



## Israel (May 31, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Crickets?



Do you mean "crickets"...as in a silence to the question?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 31, 2017)

[QUOTE WaltL1;10747009]Its pretty simple really.
Society has deemed that teaching facts and educated guesses based on what we can prove [\QUOTE].   

I agree, but last I heard evolution was a THEORY, no different in empirical provability than the THEORY of Creationism.  AAs are big on empirical evidence.   This whole page is full of posts challenging me to prove __________ empirically, yet these same posters readily accept the THEORY of evolution as LAW when in truth it's as equally empirically lacking.  Thus, its duplicitous.

Personally I feel so the fair thing to do is teach both and let the students decide for themselves as both are simply different theories for the evidence present.  

As it stands now one theory is taught supporting one belief system and is thus favored over that of another.


----------



## 660griz (May 31, 2017)

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.


----------



## WaltL1 (May 31, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> WaltL1 said:
> 
> 
> > Its pretty simple really.
> ...


----------



## bullethead (May 31, 2017)

Israel said:


> Do you mean "crickets"...as in a silence to the question?


Great movie.


----------



## bullethead (May 31, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> [QUOTE WaltL1;10747009]Its pretty simple really.
> Society has deemed that teaching facts and educated guesses based on what we can prove [\QUOTE].
> 
> I agree, but last I heard evolution was a THEORY, no different in empirical provability than the THEORY of Creationism.  AAs are big on empirical evidence.   This whole page is full of posts challenging me to prove __________ empirically, yet these same posters readily accept the THEORY of evolution as LAW when in truth it's as equally empirically lacking.  Thus, its duplicitous.
> ...


Education is a terrible thing to waste.


----------



## Israel (May 31, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Great movie.



It's hard not to like, isn't it?
The good guys so very very good, the bad guys...so very very bad...and then there's Doc Holliday, who maybe really (Maybe? ha ha ha) isn't talking about Johnny Ringo...at all.


----------



## bullethead (May 31, 2017)

Israel said:


> It's hard not to like, isn't it?
> The good guys so very very good, the bad guys...so very very bad...and then there's Doc Holliday, who maybe really (Maybe? ha ha ha) isn't talking about Johnny Ringo...at all.


I have to watch it no matter where I catch it.
Val Kilmer was spectacular.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (May 31, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> SemperFiDawg said:
> 
> 
> > ,
> ...


----------



## 660griz (May 31, 2017)

I got a crazy idea. Let churches and parents teach the Bible stuff and let the schools teach the other stuff. If your kid was in Sunday school and they broke out a lesson on evolution, parents wouldn't be too happy about it, right?

I don't see the harm of keeping religion out of education and education out of religion.


----------



## bullethead (May 31, 2017)

> =SemperFiDawg;10748716]
> 
> Evolution as taught in school is NOT proven.  Far from it.



Was Creationism taught to you when you were in school SFD?


----------



## WaltL1 (May 31, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Evolution as taught in school is NOT proven.  Far from it.





> teaching facts and educated guesses based on what we can prove and what we know is the most beneficial way to educate the masses. If and when what we know changes, we update what we teach


It falls squarely into the above.
Creationism does not at this time.

Its interesting that your argument is that the Theory of Evolution is "not proven".
And you are arguing that Creationism should either replace it or be added.
Maybe the "not proven" part isn't what is really bothering you?


----------



## ambush80 (May 31, 2017)

No interest in my questions, SemperFi?


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 1, 2017)

660griz said:


> I got a crazy idea. Let churches and parents teach the Bible stuff and let the schools teach the other stuff. If your kid was in Sunday school and they broke out a lesson on evolution, parents wouldn't be too happy about it, right?
> 
> I don't see the harm of keeping religion out of education and education out of religion.





> I got a crazy idea. Let churches and parents teach the Bible stuff and let the schools teach the other stuff.


Now there's a thought! 
Yeah but that puts a big dent in the whole "start indoctrinating them young" process.


----------



## ky55 (Jun 1, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Was Creationism taught to you when you were in school SFD?



It was when I was in grade school. 
There was an hour or so set aside at least once a month for a visit from "the missionaries".
It wasn't a part of an official curriculum, but it was approved by the school system and nobody had a choice to opt out.



SemperFiDawg said:


> Personally I feel so the fair thing to do is teach both and let the students decide for themselves as both are simply different theories for the evidence present.



If you allowed an hour for "the missionaries" and an hour of teaching evolution to a bunch of third graders I don't think you would be pleased with the results.
I would have been much more interested in hearing about the history of the earth than a talking snake.


----------



## stringmusic (Jun 1, 2017)

660griz said:


> I got a crazy idea. Let churches and parents teach the Bible stuff and let the schools teach the other stuff. If your kid was in Sunday school and they broke out a lesson on evolution, parents wouldn't be too happy about it, right?
> 
> I don't see the harm of keeping religion out of education and education out of religion.


It's when education and religion intersect that's may be the issue, as in the creation of the world.

Macro evolution is not proven, but that's conveniently left out of most classrooms, at least the ones I've sat in.


----------



## 660griz (Jun 2, 2017)

stringmusic said:


> It's when education and religion intersect that's may be the issue, as in the creation of the world.
> 
> Macro evolution is not proven, but that's conveniently left out of most classrooms, at least the ones I've sat in.



Macroevolution is based on the evidence we have.
Macroevolution is just what happens when you add up lots and lots of microevolution. How could it not happen? If you acknowledge that microevolution is real, then macroevolution inevitably follows unless you find some kind of barrier.

Some religions believe in one God they read about in an ancient book and take that as all the evidence they need. 
Then, when there is mountains of evidence that points to macroevolution, they say it is not proven. 

I can go with that IF, you use the same standards for all your beliefs.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

If one believes the earth is only a few thousand years old then they probably cannot believe in macroevolution since it could not possibly happen in 6000 - 10000 years.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 5, 2017)

stringmusic said:


> It's when education and religion intersect that's may be the issue, as in the creation of the world.
> 
> Macro evolution is not proven, but that's conveniently left out of most classrooms, at least the ones I've sat in.





> You can frequently hear creationists argue they accept microevolution but not macroevolution -— one common way to put it is to say that dogs may change to become bigger or smaller, but they never become cats. Therefore, microevolution may occur within the dog species, but macroevolution never will.





> There are a few problems with these terms, especially in the manner that creationists use them. The first is quite simply that when scientists do use the terms microevolution and macroevolution, they don’t use them in the same way as creationists.





> Why? Because for biologists, there is no relevant difference between microevolution and macroevolution. Both happen in the same way and for the same reasons, so there is no real reason to differentiate them. When biologists do use different terms, it is simply for descriptive reasons.


https://www.thoughtco.com/microevolution-vs-macroevolution-249900


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jun 5, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> It falls squarely into the above.
> Creationism does not at this time.
> 
> Its interesting that your argument is that the Theory of Evolution is "not proven".
> ...



Well, Evolution is NOT proven.  It's a theory that is used to support the belief of Atheism.  So much for the separation of Church and State.  The State is supporting the Church/Beliefs of Atheism over that of Theism by allowing the teaching of evolution and not creation.  Either allow both or deny both as both are THEORIES for the evidence available.  Let the kids decide.


----------



## ky55 (Jun 5, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Either allow both or deny both as both are THEORIES for the evidence available.  Let the kids decide.




There is absolutely zero evidence available to support creation. It is not a theory that is supported by any science.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 5, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well, Evolution is NOT proven.  It's a theory that is used to support the belief of Atheism.  So much for the separation of Church and State.  The State is supporting the Church/Beliefs of Atheism over that of Theism by allowing the teaching of evolution and not creation.  Either allow both or deny both as both are THEORIES for the evidence available.  Let the kids decide.


Days ago there were questions asked directly to you and you avoided them. Now you pop back in with more untruthful statements that you refuse to back up because you cannot back them up. 
When are you going to man up and back your statements with substance instead of hot air?


----------



## bullethead (Jun 5, 2017)

Sfd, can you comprehend what the definition of a scientific theory is compared to  the regular definition that you like to use? They are not interchangeable.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 5, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well, Evolution is NOT proven.  It's a theory that is used to support the belief of Atheism.  So much for the separation of Church and State.  The State is supporting the Church/Beliefs of Atheism over that of Theism by allowing the teaching of evolution and not creation.  Either allow both or deny both as both are THEORIES for the evidence available.  Let the kids decide.


^ Westboro Lite.
Tastes the same. Slightly less psychotic.


----------



## ugabowhunter (Jun 12, 2017)

bullethead said:


> If I am wrong your god is going to send me to burn for eternity for not believing in him despite me being a good person in every other way.
> 
> If another god, i may be reincarnated as an ardvark.
> 
> ...




"Ardvark has two "A"s. Aardvark.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 12, 2017)

ugabowhunter said:


> "Ardvark has two "A"s. Aardvark.



Thaank you but you are incorrect,
 aardvark has three "A"s


----------



## ky55 (Jun 12, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Thaank you but you are incorrect,
> aardvark has three "A"s






Thaat's funny!!
Aand also correct.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 12, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Thaat's funny!!
> Aand also correct.


----------

