# Is it legal to pump water out of a creek for irrigation purposes?



## davel

We are looking at some property that is bordered by two creeks.  Is it legal to pump water from the creeks for irrigation purposes?
We want to plant some fruit trees, vegetables, food plots, etc. but will need water from time to time.  We also want to get some livestock and will need to water them as there is no suitable area for a pond.
Thanks for the advice!


----------



## GCJ

*Creek Water*

I believe all running water is subject to regulation by the Corps of Engineers.  I am sure you would need an approval from them....GCJ


----------



## Michael F. Gray

In most States bodies of water are presummed to belong to the State. If it's navigable there exists Court precident establishing that. We had a family that owned a nice water access serviced by a state highway who charged for many years to launch you boat. Someone complained, and the Attorney General filed suit. Even though the property owner produced a deed going back from shortly after the coast was settled, even through the Roosevelt estate which once owned much of what is now State Park(s). The Court ruled the property is owned by the State because the landing empties directly into the Atlantic Intercoastal  Waterway. Part of the conflict existed because the state highway was built on property owned by the family to connect traffic to the site. Now it's open to the public for free. I'd apply for a permit to use the water before I moved it. If used on-site such as for a Florida type heat pump you don't need one, but they now require two wells, one to supply the heat pump and a second to put it back in the acquifer.


----------



## JustUs4All

You have my permission to use the water.  If someone wants you to stop using it they will tell you.


----------



## chadf

JustUs4All said:


> You have my permission to use the water.  If someone wants you to stop using it they will tell you.



 
X2 !


----------



## GA DAWG

I think the tree nursery next to me is using water from the creek here. LOTS of water!! I guess I'll go tell em to stop.


----------



## chadf

GA DAWG said:


> I think the tree nursery next to me is using water from the creek here. LOTS of water!! I guess I'll go tell em to stop.



Citizens arrest ?
I'll film it !


----------



## davel

GCJ said:


> I believe all running water is subject to regulation by the Corps of Engineers.  I am sure you would need an approval from them....GCJ



I have never heard of the Corps of Engineers regulating  state waters.  They may be able to regulate impoundments or reservoirs that they have built but not natural state waters.

The creeks are not what I would call navigatable either.

I'll check with NRCS and see what they say.

Thanks!


----------



## Drew33998

All bodies of water are sanctioned by the US Army Corp of Engineers.  Even if it is a ditch.


----------



## Drew33998

and yes there was a recent lawsuit here in florida that the outcome stated that all bodies of water even ditches were navigable bodies of water sanctioned by the corp of engineers.  but you cant see it from my house so. pump away


----------



## jcountry

The corps has amazing power to regulate all sorts of stuff you would never imagine.

If you have a private lake with a dam in excess of 25 ft. the corps has to approve its design and construction and actually has the authority to come and drain it if they want to.

I remember that during the last major drought, several golf courses has their scenic lakes drained by the corps.  As I recall, none of these lakes was in any way associated with a navigable waterway.  

-The corps can be big govt. at it most insane.

-The following happened a few years back.  The story is that locals had called the corps again and again to tell them that it looked like the lake level was dropping at Lanier because of the exposed banks.  The corps people were relying on an obviously faulty gauge  (all they would have needed to do would have been to peek out the window and glance at the exposed red clay banks to see that something wasn't right.)  

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/06/20/corps-of-engineers-loses-22-bi.php

-This bonehead incident went on for a couple of months and allowed 22 BILLION gallons to be wasted.  It is awful hard to summon up much respect for the army corps of engineers after hearing about stuff like this.


----------



## bullit

If you really want to find out, it may be a good idea to contact the local county agent or the local DNR.
May depend on how much or how many gallons per hour or day you plan to use.


----------



## emtguy

You cant pump out of a creek, ditch or any thing that holds water for i think 7 consecutive days.

If you just watering trees then get ya some buckets and start dipping..thats what i do. 

Nobodys going to turn you in over a garden and a few trees.


----------



## doenightmare

GA DAWG said:


> I think the tree nursery next to me is using water from the creek here. LOTS of water!! I guess I'll go tell em to stop.



Baby plant hater................


----------



## jimmystriton

The only thing the army corps of eng. does not take responsibility over is them screwing up lanier a couple years ago........no one got fired over them dropping it 25 feet on accident....they tried to tell me that they are all veterans as well cause they are in the Army Corps of Engineer........NOT VETERANS BY THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Wild Turkey

Since 1988, Georgia has required permits for those who pump water from either groundwater or surface waters of the state for agricultural uses. The Agricultural Permitting Unit (APU) of the Georgia DNR Environmental Protection Division evaluates and issues those permits.



Land owners who pump groundwater or whose tenants pump groundwater for agricultural uses, including irrigation, livestock watering, greenhouse watering, commercial fish production, and certain primary food processing operations like washing and cooling freshly picked vegetables may be required to have permits. The threshold is 100,000 gallons per day when use is averaged over any month. Generally this means all wells whose borehole is 6 inches in diameter or greater must be permitted. Smaller wells fitted to pump more than 70 gallons per minute, or multiple small wells used to irrigate different sections of orchards or fields will also require permits. These are Groundwater Withdrawal Permits.

Surface water users are required to obtain Surface Water Withdrawal permits if the threshold pumping rate (100,000 gallons per day/70 gallons per minute) and farm use conditions apply. All direct stream withdrawals must be permitted. Some will have low-flow limits for their use. Ponds may or may not require permits. Some ponds intercept intermittent or continually flowing streams that are considered Waters of the State. Permits are required for these. Ponds shared along property lines are considered Waters of the State and withdrawals from them require permits. Some ponds are located in draws and depressions where runoff only occurs during rainstorms. Permits are generally not required for these. EPD can provide a determination of which type of pond fits your condition. 

Ponds are also used to store groundwater. If a pond has no inflow except that pumped from a well, a groundwater permit is required for the well. If the pond intercepts runoff or stream flow AND has water pumped in periodically from a well, a combined Well-to-Pond Water Withdrawal permit is issued.

All permits are issued to land owners who have the deed for the location where the well or pump station was located. Renters should arrange for permits through their rentor. Permits are transferable during sale of the land on which the well or pump location was permitted, providing that the new owners use it for the same purpose.


To better serve the agricultural community, the APU was moved from Atlanta to permanent headquarters in Tifton, Georgia during 2006. If you are in the area, you can visit them there. (see where)



     Contact them by mail: 
          EPD Agricultural Permitting Unit
          531 Main Street, Suite D
          Tifton, GA 31794-4898

     Reach them by phone: (229) 391-2400

     Email their permitting specialists:

          If your system includes a well, send Edward Rooks a message Edward_Rooks@dnr.state.ga.us
          If your system includes only surface pumps, contact Chris Ward Christopher_Ward@dnr.state.ga.us


----------



## davel

Thanks Wild Turkey!  That was very informative and I will email the individuals you mentioned.
Thank you!


----------



## CAL

As Wild Turkey said,one has to have a permit now days.Before you only needed the landowners permission to pump.Don't know how hard it is to get a permit because all of mine were grandfathered in many years ago,


----------



## skiff23

It is easier to ask for forgivness thanit is to ask permission ! 
 If the creek is there use it and to haties with goverment regulation !


----------



## bronco611

Nothin is illegal unless you get caught!!! Then tell them that Obama said it was Bushs' fault!!! And on another hand: It is always easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission!!!


----------



## wildlifepro

*re corps of engineers*



jimmystriton said:


> The only thing the army corps of eng. does not take responsibility over is them screwing up lanier a couple years ago........no one got fired over them dropping it 25 feet on accident....they tried to tell me that they are all veterans as well cause they are in the Army Corps of Engineer........NOT VETERANS BY THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Well said re the corp of engineers and their fowl up  at lanier, And just another one of their many  screwups. And correct they are not vets!!! Was  at a unit reunion at Bragg a year ago and later that evening a few of us were out having dinner and drinks and a couple guys next to us asked what we were celebrating,We told them and said they were vets and wanted to buy us a round.When asked their unit, They said they were with the corps.We laughed and said you have the nerve to actually say that in here ,Drinks were refused ,told to get lost,and they pretty much got the message and dismissed themselves before further embarrassment happened to them.


----------

