# Shotguns for Bear



## ScarFoot (Jul 5, 2019)

While on a bear hunt in Canada a bear guide told me he preferred 12gauge slugs over anything for stopping black bear, Any of you guys sling slugs at em, what about buckshot?


----------



## Heath (Jul 6, 2019)

Slugs do an excellent job.  Eastern bear aren’t shot at great distances often.  Don’t get to caught up in to much talk.  Bear and hogs aren’t nearly as hard to put down as a lot of people believe.  I killed hogs for years with a .22 and .22 mag.  Learn your gun and where to hit game and a slug is way more than necessary for our little ol teddies!


----------



## Buckman18 (Jul 6, 2019)

I’ve used a 45-70 for the past couple years, which is semi similar to a slug. Here’s a few I’ve kilt with it. They all had one thing in common: Bang-Flop. Except the bigger bear, he made it about 30 yards but I hit him low. I would think a slug would have very similar performance.


----------



## model88_308 (Jul 6, 2019)

I'm on my way to Maine in about 8 weeks for another bear hunt. I am no expert, I've only ever killed two bears, both in Maine ('15 & '18). I used a .358 Win in '15 and a .444 last year. My rifle of choice this time will be a shotgun, a Browning X-Bolt 12ga (rifled barrel) topped with a Leupold 1.5-5 30mm with IR#4 reticle.

If things work out as I've planned, I'll be shooting Remington Sabot bullets; 385gr tipped SP @ 1900 FPS. This equates to a good, stout 45-70 load and generates 3,000 FPE @ the muzzle. The bullets are .58 cal and, again sabot loads. 

FWIW, I'll likely also bring one of me 45-70s too, a Henry lever with 18.5" barrel. It's load will likely be Hornady LE ammo; 325gr at 2050 FPS OR a 400gr JFN @ 1800 FPS. 

I'm interested in using the 12ga and that rather stout loading and how it works. My feelings are it should leave a huge hole, including an exit wound at the ranges we'll see. That would leave a very good blood trail, if the bear goes anywhere. 

And yes, These cartridges are not necessarily "needed", but a good blood trail can be very important in the thick woods we'll be hunting. And, I do not mind the recoil of these rounds.


----------



## king killer delete (Jul 6, 2019)

model88_308 said:


> I'm on my way to Maine in about 8 weeks for another bear hunt. I am no expert, I've only ever killed two bears, both in Maine ('15 & '18). I used a .358 Win in '15 and a .444 last year. My rifle of choice this time will be a shotgun, a Browning X-Bolt 12ga (rifled barrel) topped with a Leupold 1.5-5 30mm with IR#4 reticle.
> 
> If things work out as I've planned, I'll be shooting Remington Sabot bullets; 385gr tipped SP @ 1900 FPS. This equates to a good, stout 45-70 load and generates 3,000 FPE @ the muzzle. The bullets are .58 cal and, again sabot loads.
> 
> ...


358 Winchester is a great round. But I love a 12 gauge slug.


----------



## model88_308 (Jul 6, 2019)

king killer delete said:


> 358 Winchester is a great round. But I love a 12 gauge slug.




That bear, with the .358, never took another step. I'll hope to be lucky enough to see a shooter and will be anxious to see what that slug will do.


----------



## Big7 (Jul 6, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> While on a bear hunt in Canada a bear guide told me he preferred 12gauge slugs over anything for stopping black bear, Any of you guys sling slugs at em, what about buckshot?



I'll start by saying I've never been to Canada. What I have a fair amount of knowledge that involves kinetics. A 1 1/4" ounce rifled slug is bad to the bone. Then lately, you started out with lead sabots. Then Copper Solids. If I were headed that way, I'd have an 18 pellet, 3 1/2" 00bk in the chamber and maybe another one in the next round. If you are charged by just about anything, a face full of them will likely just kill it flat out, even while charging. The rest of the tube would be filled with slugs. That's what Alaska DNR and other LEO carry in bear country. That's good enough for me.


----------



## jbogg (Jul 6, 2019)

Buckman18 said:


> I’ve used a 45-70 for the past couple years, which is semi similar to a slug. Here’s a few I’ve kilt with it. They all had one thing in common: Bang-Flop. Except the bigger bear, he made it about 30 yards but I hit him low. I would think a slug would have very similar performance.



I might as well quit hunting the mountains.  From the looks of the pics it doesn’t look like Buckman left anything for the rest of us.? Seriously, great pics Buckman.  Remind me again what color/make truck you drive. ?


----------



## chase870 (Jul 6, 2019)

I cant think of anything I'd be afraid to shoot with a 12Gauge slug, and not many things I'd be afraid to shoot with a 20Gauge


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 6, 2019)

I just checked, and I found the website for the Tri-Ball round I am talking about. I believe the company is still producing tjeir rounds, as well as some scary looking 12 gauge slug rounds. 
The website is: 

dixieslugs.com.

It would be a ton of fun to slam a bear at close range with one of these rounds!


----------



## georgia_home (Jul 7, 2019)

I am sure a full diameter 12g brenneke would put the hurting on bear at shotgun distances. Those magnums are awesome. Not cheap though.


----------



## ScarFoot (Jul 7, 2019)

You guys think bear are tougher to bring down than hogs, all things being similiar 200lb bear compared to 200lb hog?


----------



## model88_308 (Jul 7, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> You guys think bear are tougher to bring down than hogs, all things being similiar 200lb bear compared to 200lb hog?



_Absolutely not! _A boar of 200 is starting to have a pretty tough shield and a boar of 300 has a tough, significant shield. Where I've hunted bears, I worry mostly about a blood trail, so I'm wanting full penetration with a large caliber so the fur and fat do not stem the leakage.


----------



## NCMTNHunter (Jul 7, 2019)

One of my good friends has killed a truck load of bear with with a Remington 11-87 20ga with slugs.  All at short distances.


----------



## ScarFoot (Jul 7, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> I just checked, and I found the website for the Tri-Ball round I am talking about. I believe the company is still producing tjeir rounds, as well as some scary looking 12 gauge slug rounds.
> The website is:
> 
> dixieslugs.com.
> ...



I dont have alot of experience with bears I have only killed two both with a 45-70, I do have lots experience with hogs and buckshot. Myself and my sons track them to their thickets creep in on them and let them have it with buckshot, They are using 12 gauge now but for the first years they followed me (10-12 yrs old) they used 20 gauge 4Buck, I havnt had to track one yet, we use 4 buck nickle plated because you get so many pellets you are just about positive to get one in the spine or brain case if you shoot for forward of the shoulder. This will stop them and you may have to shoot him again but hes not going anywhere. We also regularly use small game legal size shot to kill hogs during small game legal seaons on wmas with non toxic from size 2 to T-size We kill 8-12 hogs a year this way. I was wondering if anyone hunted bears in the thickets where they bed in the Mtns in a similiar manner, Ive never used a slug, As far as anyone deserving being attacked by a wounded anima,l I dont think any sportsman deserves to be attacked because of the weapon they chose to use. I do know people who have been attacked by wounded deer and hogs that were shot with rifles!


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 7, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> I dont have alot of experience with bears I have only killed two both with a 45-70, I do have lots experience with hogs and buckshot. Myself and my sons track them to their thickets creep in on them and let them have it with buckshot, They are using 12 gauge now but for the first years they followed me (10-12 yrs old) they used 20 gauge 4Buck, I havnt had to track one yet, we use 4 buck nickle plated because you get so many pellets you are just about positive to get one in the spine or brain case if you shoot for forward of the shoulder. This will stop them and you may have to shoot him again but hes not going anywhere. We also regularly use small game legal size shot to kill hogs during small game legal seaons on wmas with non toxic from size 2 to T-size We kill 8-12 hogs a year this way. I was wondering if anyone hunted bears in the thickets where they bed in the Mtns in a similiar manner, Ive never used a slug, As far as anyone deserving being attacked by a wounded anima,l I dont think any sportsman deserves to be attacked because of the weapon they chose to use. I do know people who have been attacked by wounded deer and hogs that were shot with rifles!
> View attachment 975393View attachment 975398View attachment 975399


You are correct about shot placement. I was referring to traditional shot placement in the vitals located within the thoracic cavity (heart/lung/liver). With smaller buckshot and a neck/spine/skull shot at close distance, buckshot could easily drop a bear if one could manage to put one in the spine. That is a non-traditional shot placement, but would work if done right. 
I disagree with you about one deserving to be attacked regardless of whether or not a man deserves to be attacked. If you aren't smart enough to carry a weapon that will ethically kill an animal...then you deserve what you get. If you shoot a cape buffalo with a .223 and it charges you....that was your fault alone. If you shoot a buck with .410 buckshot with only 3 00 pellets, you wound it, and he charges you...well...you did that. Your fault. You should have had common sense and should have known better. If you shoot a 250 lb wild hog with a .22 LR and it charges....that is your fault.
If you shoot a bear with small shot at low velocities which cannot penetrate the fat and hit the vitals...that is your fault alone. If you shoot a big game animal like a bear with an inadequate weapon which can subject it to a horrible and prolonged, agonizing death, that is 100% your fault for being incredibly irtesponsible. You shoot a bear with a pea shooter and then walk up to it....that is simply a product of stupidity. 
Tell me how I am wrong.


----------



## ScarFoot (Jul 8, 2019)

In reference to the South Georgia bear mauling the hunter using buckshot, I know the story and read the article, I don't believe the person that got mauled "deserved to be mauled" he was actually a houndsman trying to sort out a difficult situation that went down hill fast, started with a wounded bear by a first time bear hunter that probably didn't properly pepper said bear even though the weapon he was using was quite adequate for the job, (the bear was 35 yds away I assure you the didn't hit it well) My eldest son was jumped on by a hog while tracking in a thicket that had been hit twice with a .308 and once with a 45-70. None of the shots hit vitals luckily one of the .308 rounds had shattered the boars lower tusks, he had muddy nose prints all over his jeans as the boar hit him multiple times, and he couldn't get away. All I am saying is it's about skills with your chosen tool. A friend had the snot knocked out of him while tracking a doe a child had shot. It stood on it's back feet and smacked him in the face in the dark, it had been hit with a 7mm-08, more than enough gun just shot through the guts, If you spend enough time and get on the trail of enough wounded animals while doing the ethically correct thing to recover them accidents can/will happen, I don't think any hunters deserve to be gored by wounded game, I don't care if they want to use a ball peen hammer for kicks, leave the hunter hating to animal rights activists,  that's how your wrong,


----------



## Heath (Jul 8, 2019)

Bingo!  Lots of folks think their way is the best or only way.  Buckshot is a tried and true killer.  Not my preference, but definitely will get the job done if you understand how to use it.  Arrows are some of the lowest kill rate tools we use but then some take the time to hone their craft and can use it as efficiently as any rifle.  For years and years we could only use .22 caliber rimfire or smaller while hog hunting with dogs here in the mountains.  I’ve killed hogs every way imaginable and still like my 22 mag as much as any other caliber for putting down a hog.  But I know how to use it and when and where.  I’d carry a 12 gauge slug anywhere in this country and never worry if I had enough fire power.  It will stop big bears dead in their tracks.  

Lots of people grew up bear, hog, and deer hunting with Buckshot and never had a problem killing either.  This new generation now tells them it’s not a good idea and looks down their nose at it.  Puzzling, to say the least!  I’ve seen more game wounded by archery hunters than any of the others combined but I dang sure love it and wouldn’t dream of telling people they should stop bow hunting.  It’s funny how many people have all this knowledge and information but you can hunt these mountains all week long all season long and only see a handful of weekend warriors and fair weather hunters.  But they sure can tell the rest of us how to get it done.


----------



## Heath (Jul 8, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> You are correct about shot placement. I was referring to traditional shot placement in the vitals located within the thoracic cavity (heart/lung/liver). With smaller buckshot and a neck/spine/skull shot at close distance, buckshot could easily drop a bear if one could manage to put one in the spine. That is a non-traditional shot placement, but would work if done right.
> I disagree with you about one deserving to be attacked regardless of whether or not a man deserves to be attacked. If you aren't smart enough to carry a weapon that will ethically kill an animal...then you deserve what you get. If you shoot a cape buffalo with a .223 and it charges you....that was your fault alone. If you shoot a buck with .410 buckshot with only 3 00 pellets, you wound it, and he charges you...well...you did that. Your fault. You should have had common sense and should have known better. If you shoot a 250 lb wild hog with a .22 LR and it charges....that is your fault.
> If you shoot a bear with small shot at low velocities which cannot penetrate the fat and hit the vitals...that is your fault alone. If you shoot a big game animal like a bear with an inadequate weapon which can subject it to a horrible and prolonged, agonizing death, that is 100% your fault for being incredibly irtesponsible. You shoot a bear with a pea shooter and then walk up to it....that is simply a product of stupidity.
> Tell me how I am wrong.



Come on man,  you’ve not hunted long enough to make a bad shot with your chosen rifle caliber?  I once thought I was King Kong too!  You have to be joking that someone deserves to be mauled or maimed after making a poor shot.  Regardless if it was a sling shot or a cannon.  

A little girl shot a bear here with her .223 a few years ago.  When they found it, it got up and my brother put it back down.  I’m sure glad she didn’t get what she deserved!  It was her first kill I believe and she’s a lifelong supporter of hunting now.


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 8, 2019)

Heath said:


> Come on man,  you’ve not hunted long enough to make a bad shot with your chosen rifle caliber?  I once thought I was King Kong too! * You have to be joking that someone deserves to be mauled or maimed after making a poor shot.  Regardless if it was a sling shot or a cannon. *
> 
> A little girl shot a bear here with her .223 a few years ago.  When they found it, it got up and my brother put it back down.  I’m sure glad she didn’t get what she deserved!  It was her first kill I believe and she’s a lifelong supporter of hunting now.



If you choose to shoot a bear with a sling shot, and it mauls you.....yes. You deserve that. Darwin award goes to you.


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 8, 2019)

Heath said:


> Bingo!  Lots of folks think their way is the best or only way.  Buckshot is a tried and true killer.  Not my preference, but definitely will get the job done if you understand how to use it.  Arrows are some of the lowest kill rate tools we use but then some take the time to hone their craft and can use it as efficiently as any rifle.  For years and years we could only use .22 caliber rimfire or smaller while hog hunting with dogs here in the mountains.  I’ve killed hogs every way imaginable and still like my 22 mag as much as any other caliber for putting down a hog.  But I know how to use it and when and where.  I’d carry a 12 gauge slug anywhere in this country and never worry if I had enough fire power.  It will stop big bears dead in their tracks.
> 
> Lots of people grew up bear, hog, and deer hunting with Buckshot and never had a problem killing either.  This new generation now tells them it’s not a good idea and looks down their nose at it.  Puzzling, to say the least!  I’ve seen more game wounded by archery hunters than any of the others combined but I dang sure love it and wouldn’t dream of telling people they should stop bow hunting.  It’s funny how many people have all this knowledge and information but you can hunt these mountains all week long all season long and only see a handful of weekend warriors and fair weather hunters.  But they sure can tell the rest of us how to get it done.



Couple things....
At the public regs meeting in 2016, when it was open for comments towards the end, I stood up and made 2 comments in front of the 200 or 300 people there. I spoke in favor of removing the buckshot restrictions on WMA's during modern firearms hunts. I said that with the advances in modern buckshot technology, like as seen in Federal Vital Shok 00 with Flite Control wad which I personally use for hogs, and which I have killed with, there is no reason buckshot should not be considered an effective hunting round. I meant that as a tool for deer and hogs. Not bears.
I also made another comment. I stood there and said that bear doggers deserved a hunting season. I don't have dogs, and none of my friends have dogs. I said that it was like them training for the super bowl and never getting to play, and it wasnt fair.

I don't know what weekend warriors you are referencing...must be somebody else, because I am in the woods or on the river 7 days per week. Buckman, JBogg, and TreeCutter can verify that. The only days that I don't step foot in the woods are some holidays, and family birthdays or funerals. I am in the woods about 345-350 days per year. I get off work M-F (and I work in the woods), then drop off the work truck and then go right back and hit the woods again from the time I get off until dark. Then I drive about an hour home, eat dinner, go to bed, and wake up and go to work again. I live my life in a perpetual, nearly chronic state of fatigue because my body litetally never has a chance to rest and recover. I am also in the woods Sat and Sun on my days off. Literally seven days per week. Almost 365 days per year.
You must have been referencing someone else?


----------



## Buckman18 (Jul 8, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> Couple things....
> At the public regs meeting in 2016, when it was open for comments towards the end, I stood up and made 2 comments in front of the 200 or 300 people there. I spoke in favor of removing the buckshot restrictions on WMA's during modern firearms hunts. I said that with the advances in modern buckshot technology, like as seen in Federal Vital Shok 00 with Flite Control wad which I personally use for hogs and which I have killed with, there is no reason buckshot should not be considered an effective hunting round. I meant that as a took for deer and hogs. Not bears.
> I also made another comment. I stood there and said that bear doggers deserved a hunting season. I don't have dogs, and none of my friends have dogs. I said that it was like them training for the super bowl and never getting to play, and it wasnt fair.
> 
> ...



They don’t call him THE Killer Kyle for nothing!


----------



## Big7 (Jul 8, 2019)

georgia_home said:


> I am sure a full diameter 12g brenneke would put the hurting on bear at shotgun distances. Those magnums are awesome. Not cheap though.


 
My favorite slug by far. I have a good supply in both 12 and 20 ga. The felt wad stays attached. The wad serves 2 important functions. It's a gas check that prevents gas escaping resulting in higher pressure. It's also a stabilizer which makes them extremely accurate.

I'll buy just about anything on sale or cheap. These are neither. Well worth a few $$ more if you life or trophy is on the line. Due to the tall and thin groves they catch a lot of air resulting in better accuracy in a smooth bore. They can also be used in rifled barrels as well as rifled choke tubes.


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 8, 2019)

Big7 said:


> My favorite slug by far. I have a good supply in both 12 and 20 ga. The felt wad stays attached. The wad serves 2 important functions. It's a gas check that prevents gas escaping resulting in higher pressure. It's also a stabilizer which makes them extremely accurate.
> 
> I'll buy just about anything on sale or cheap. These are neither. Well worth a few $$ more if you life or trophy is on the line. Due to the tall and thin groves they catch a lot of air resulting in better accuracy in a smooth bore. They can also be used in rifled barrels as well as rifled choke tubes.


I have shot a lot of types of buckshot in my life, but have very little experience with slugs. I've shot foster styles just for fun, but my old mossberg doesnt make much for accuracy. 
Can you describe what kinds of accuracy you are able to achieve with Brenneke slugs? I'm interested and generally just curious. If I could manage to get some alright groups at 40 yards with my smoothbore, I might really be compelled to tote it some just to try for a bear with it. It'd be something new and different to try!


----------



## Heath (Jul 8, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> Couple things....
> At the public regs meeting in 2016, when it was open for comments towards the end, I stood up and made 2 comments in front of the 200 or 300 people there. I spoke in favor of removing the buckshot restrictions on WMA's during modern firearms hunts. I said that with the advances in modern buckshot technology, like as seen in Federal Vital Shok 00 with Flite Control wad which I personally use for hogs and which I have killed with, there is no reason buckshot should not be considered an effective hunting round. I meant that as a took for deer and hogs. Not bears.
> I also made another comment. I stood there and said that bear doggers deserved a hunting season. I don't have dogs, and none of my friends have dogs. I said that it was like them training for the super bowl and never getting to play, and it wasnt fair.
> 
> ...



Kyle, I’m sorry you took that so hard.  Now look at it from my perspective.  A man asked about slugs or buckshot, we all gave opinions.  Nothing wrong with that.  You then took it a step further and claimed that anyone shooting a lesser caliber than YOU deem adequate was unethical or wrong.  I wrote a long hateful reply and realized it was useless.  Some of us have been hunting these mountains 3x, 4x, and 5x times longer than you and we have killed that much more game.  Lots of folks share opinions that are not founded on knowledge but what they perceive because that is their reality.  I guess your 8 years hunting the mountains and 7 or 8 bears killed qualifies you as an authority in your mind but realize there are people who have seen 10x what you have.  And in many other states other than one.  Sorry you were offended.  I was offended too.


----------



## Killer Kyle (Jul 9, 2019)

Heath said:


> Kyle, I’m sorry you took that so hard.  Now look at it from my perspective.  A man asked about slugs or buckshot, we all gave opinions.  Nothing wrong with that.  You then took it a step further and claimed that anyone shooting a lesser caliber than YOU deem adequate was unethical or wrong.  I wrote a long hateful reply and realized it was useless.  Some of us have been hunting these mountains 3x, 4x, and 5x times longer than you and we have killed that much more game.  Lots of folks share opinions that are not founded on knowledge but what they perceive because that is their reality.  I guess your 8 years hunting the mountains and 7 or 8 bears killed qualifies you as an authority in your mind but realize there are people who have seen 10x what you have.  And in many other states other than one.  Sorry you were offended.  I was offended too.


You are absolutely correct in many ways. I'm wondering how old you are? You classified me in the "new generation" title. I'm not old, but I ain't exactly young either. I'll be 33 in a few weeks. I ain't young to hunting either. Been hunting since I was a small child. I've hunted on my own since I was a small kid because I didn't have a dad to teach me how to hunt, so everything I know has been learned on my own accord and through a tremendous amount of personal trial and effort. I remember spending two or three hours trying to figure out how to clean a rabbit that I killed in the summertime (as a small child) so that my mom could cook it. Nobody ever showed me how to do it. I just had to figure these things out on my own. 
I have no doubt that you have probably seen more bears than me. You have probably killed more bears than me. I don't question that.
But unlike many, I am more concerned with the quick and ethical harvest of ALL game animals far and above all else. I've never killed a bear that ran more than 20 or 30 yards. Those have been quick and ethical kills. There is no doubt that buckshot can kill bears! I'd wager to say that buckshot has been the demise of a tremendous number of bears killed on this continent in the recent written history....and I also can only imagine how many bears have been horribly maimed and lost as a result of the use of buckshot as well.
But we live in the year 2019 currently. There are methods available to us that will kill these bears that are vastly more ethical and efficient. Any simpleton could look at ballistics data from buckshot tests and realize that the terminal velocity from individual pellets in a buckshot load barely contain the terminal energy required to rupture the thoracic cavity and puncture vital organs and ethically harvest a big game animal such as a bear. 
Sure...you killed some with it as a small kid. Sure, some are killed with it today. But there is no question that it is a very marginal way to ethically kill a bear today when there are far more effective rounds available to hunters at a relatively cheap price. 
Just because it CAN be done in certain scenarios and within certain circumstances doesn't mean that it will work uniformly as well in ALL situations. 
But...you are more local to bear woods than me. So you are obviously right. What do I know? You must be correct.


----------



## strothershwacker (Jul 9, 2019)

I'm the authority on making bad choices. Been makin' em for 40 years now. And choosing buckshot over a slug is a bad choice. It's like driving a Ford. It my work sometimes......


----------



## Heath (Jul 9, 2019)

It’s not about me being right or wrong Kyle its about people learning to respect other people.  I’ve been a member of this forum since 2005 and made something like 35 posts because I enjoy reading mostly.  I also use it to keep updated as to what’s happening.  I see you’ve been a member since 2011 and have 2,000+ posts.  A lot of which pertain to things you have very little first hand knowledge of.  You can quote ballistics and give all the advice in the world.  But nothing trumps skinning Grizz brother.  You can’t talk them to death or give me any advice that I haven’t seen used or used myself already.  There’s a lot for you to learn yet before you go spouting off ethical manners of take and voicing opinions about things you have maybe a 5% understanding of.  I can’t bear to listen to much more “advice” from people that know very little about what they speak as apparent by the comments they make.  There is a whole world of hunting out here, and if you would humble yourself a tad you might start learning again.  

I shot a buck years ago a touch back with a .300 WSM.  That bullet was so fast it often didn’t leave entries or exit holes.  It killed him but it wasn’t clean or humane.  Add it to your list of calibers that are poor choices because a poor shot was made.  P.S. Kyle,  I’ve used a slingshot on around 50 bears through the years.  No mauling yet but I’m hoping to find one that’s finally brave enough to bring the fight to me.  It would be a good way to go down in history or just go down.  It’s not your fault you haven’t seen much but it is your fault that you act like you have seen more than you have!


----------



## jbogg (Jul 9, 2019)

strothershwacker said:


> I'm the authority on making bad choices. Been makin' em for 40 years now. And choosing buckshot over a slug is a bad choice. It's like driving a Ford. It my work sometimes......



You just had to bring my Ford into it!  Now you’ve crossed the line.?


----------



## jbogg (Jul 9, 2019)

@Heath.  I have never been a big gun guy. Have owned a few over the years, but never looked at a gun as anything more than a tool that I could use to slow a critter down long enough so I could eat it.  I have bowhunted for 30 years, but relatively new to the mountains.  I live in the Suburbs of Cumming and am relegated to mainly coming up on the weekends since I run a small business and work full time.  I guess that quality’s me as one of those know nothing out of town weekend warriors.


----------



## Heath (Jul 9, 2019)

jbogg said:


> @Heath.  I have never been a big gun guy. Have owned a few over the years, but never looked at a gun as anything more than a tool that I could use to slow a critter down long enough so I could eat it.  I have bowhunted for 30 years, but relatively new to the mountains.  I live in the Suburbs of Cumming and am relegated to mainly coming up on the weekends since I run a small business and work full time.  I guess that quality’s me as one of those know nothing out of town weekend warriors.



No sir Jbogg,  it qualifies you as a man who has other priorities and makes the most out of the time he has.  I had to do that as well during a season of my life. I just live close enough where I had easy access to hunt through the week too.  You seem open and honest about that and you aren’t preaching to me about how much more you know and how vast your knowledge is and quoting ballistic charts and articles that were written by another man that had little to no experience.  It’s the blind leading the blind.  You are not giving advice like it’s your job.  I have no problem with Kyle as a person. In fact, I think he is probably a pretty good guy.  I do have a problem with the arrogance of anyone that belittles another man for using a legal means of take because he deems it unacceptable.  I don’t agree with baiting but it’s legal on private land now and nobody forces me to participate.  We are lucky to live in a place where we have the option either way.  The problem is, these folks that hunt a few years and kill 4 or 5 animals then start voicing opinions and asking for change.  They get laws, dates, and seasons changed for the betterment of themselves.  But what about those that suffer from what you deem better.  What if we did the same to you?  What if I came to Banks county, Hall county, Gwinnett, or Forsyth and brought a couple other opinionated point pushers and we wanted all your dates, seasons, and basic way of hunting changed to suit what we are accustomed to.   No more doe days.  Since we think WMA’s are the best management tool we want you to only have a week here and there to hunt so we’ll restructure your season.  Trust us, it’s for your own good.  We mountain hunters know what’s best for you!!!  I’m gonna push hard to make sure you can only hunt with what I see as an appropriate caliber choice.  Regardless of what you like for your area,  my way is better for your own health because you deserve to be mauled or killed if you don’t use what my ballistics chart says you should.  
Do you maybe see why it’s offensive to local people?  Kinda silly, but this is exactly what happens.  People love this place, they move in here and then want to change it to be like the place they left in the first place!  It’s crazy.  
The beauty of public forums is that we can all share ideas and opinions.  The curse is that some use it as platforms to build a reputation or become something they are not and then preach it to unsuspecting people who don’t know any better.  This starts a vicious cycle of untruths and flat out hogwash that is regurgitated and spreads like wildfire through the masses.  You might of heard the term before- Propaganda!  I know these are offensive posts, but I’ve listened to this hogwash longer than I can tolerate.  If you can’t stand a healthy truth sent back at you keep your vast experience to yourself!


----------



## kmckinnie (Jul 9, 2019)

Goodness gracious !
Y’all got this pot  simmering pretty good. Looks like it’s about to  boil !


----------



## Bobby Linton (Jul 9, 2019)

jbogg said:


> @Heath.  I have never been a big gun guy. Have owned a few over the years, but never looked at a gun as anything more than a tool that I could use to slow a critter down long enough so I could eat it.  I have bowhunted for 30 years, but relatively new to the mountains.  I live in the Suburbs of Cumming and am relegated to mainly coming up on the weekends since I run a small business and work full time.  I guess that quality’s me as one of those know nothing out of town weekend warriors.


I would say you are a weekend warrior with a miss firing weather warrior! And that's a personal attack.  I hope you fellas can laugh this off and let it go.


----------



## jbogg (Jul 9, 2019)

Heath said:


> No sir Jbogg,  it qualifies you as a man who has other priorities and makes the most out of the time he has.  I had to do that as well during a season of my life. I just live close enough where I had easy access to hunt through the week too.  You seem open and honest about that and you aren’t preaching to me about how much more you know and how vast your knowledge is and quoting ballistic charts and articles that were written by another man that had little to no experience.  It’s the blind leading the blind.  You are not giving advice like it’s your job.  I have no problem with Kyle as a person. In fact, I think he is probably a pretty good guy.  I do have a problem with the arrogance of anyone that belittles another man for using a legal means of take because he deems it unacceptable.  I don’t agree with baiting but it’s legal on private land now and nobody forces me to participate.  We are lucky to live in a place where we have the option either way.  The problem is, these folks that hunt a few years and kill 4 or 5 animals then start voicing opinions and asking for change.  They get laws, dates, and seasons changed for the betterment of themselves.  But what about those that suffer from what you deem better.  What if we did the same to you?  What if I came to Banks county, Hall county, Gwinnett, or Forsyth and brought a couple other opinionated point pushers and we wanted all your dates, seasons, and basic way of hunting changed to suit what we are accustomed to.   No more doe days.  Since we think WMA’s are the best management tool we want you to only have a week here and there to hunt so we’ll restructure your season.  Trust us, it’s for your own good.  We mountain hunters know what’s best for you!!!  I’m gonna push hard to make sure you can only hunt with what I see as an appropriate caliber choice.  Regardless of what you like for your area,  my way is better for your own health because you deserve to be mauled or killed if you don’t use what my ballistics chart says you should.
> Do you maybe see why it’s offensive to local people?  Kinda silly, but this is exactly what happens.  People love this place, they move in here and then want to change it to be like the place they left in the first place!  It’s crazy.
> The beauty of public forums is that we can all share ideas and opinions.  The curse is that some use it as platforms to build a reputation or become something they are not and then preach it to unsuspecting people who don’t know any better.  This starts a vicious cycle of untruths and flat out hogwash that is regurgitated and spreads like wildfire through the masses.  You might of heard the term before- Propaganda!  I know these are offensive posts, but I’ve listened to this hogwash longer than I can tolerate.  If you can’t stand a healthy truth sent back at you keep your vast experience to yourself!



It sounds like you have a lot of experience hunting in the mountains, and clearly you’re very passionate about that area. Admittedly you have been a member of the forum for almost 15 years but in that time have only felt the need to make around 35 posts.  There’s nothing wrong with being a spectator versus a contributor, but it seems that lately since you have joined the fray your automatic default is that someone must be an ignorant, non-local if their opinion differs from yours.  I’ve always felt like the bear hunting forum is the best little neighborhood on GON.   Most of the guys I have met on here are dedicated hard-core hunters who are very passionate about that area.   We don’t always agree on everything, but when we disagree there’s no reason to get personal.  Personally, I’m glad that you have chimed in. It’s great to get some new blood and ideas on this great forum. I would love to see you dispense your opinions with a little more honey and a little less vinegar.


----------



## DeucesWild (Jul 9, 2019)

Getting back to Shotguns......I had a chance a few years back to go on a deer hunt in Illinois. I purchased a rifled slug barrel with cantilever scope mount for a 12 ga 870 supermag. I mounted a 3x9 Burris scope on her and took it to my backyard range and tried her out with a variety of slugs. they ranged from 3"-2 3/4". Thank goodness i own a lead sled cause the 3" rounds were brutal on this old man shooting from a sand bag. Best group were the Hornady 2 3/4" red tip sabots printing a 3" group @ 100 yds. Never got to shoot a deer but can only imagine what damage they would do. Will all this being said.....by the time I added the rifled barrel, scope and sling to my gun it seemed awful heavy....I would hate to know I had to lug it very far up them thar hills. Now a savage 20 ga bolt gun shooting 3" slugs might be a whole nuther story!!!


----------



## Rabun (Jul 9, 2019)

oh yea...shotguns for bear.  Almost forgot.  I would use a slug in a 20 or 12 without hesitation but my 835 and 870 rattle when I carry them.  Full disclosure...have not killed one yet.  Maybe this Fall


----------



## Heath (Jul 9, 2019)

jbogg said:


> It sounds like you have a lot of experience hunting in the mountains, and clearly you’re very passionate about that area. Admittedly you have been a member of the forum for almost 15 years but in that time have only felt the need to make around 35 posts.  There’s nothing wrong with being a spectator versus a contributor, but it seems that lately since you have joined the fray your automatic default is that someone must be an ignorant, non-local if their opinion differs from yours.  I’ve always felt like the bear hunting forum is the best little neighborhood on GON.   Most of the guys I have met on here are dedicated hard-core hunters who are very passionate about that area.   We don’t always agree on everything, but when we disagree there’s no reason to get personal.  Personally, I’m glad that you have chimed in. It’s great to get some new blood and ideas on this great forum. I would love to see you dispense your opinions with a little more honey and a little less vinegar.



Excellent response!  I can’t disagree with any of that.  I’ll be better.  You have great points and it’s fact based.  You are speaking my language now bud!
That’s all I was fishing for.  Sorry to have disrupted the original thread.


----------



## model88_308 (Jul 9, 2019)

DeucesWild said:


> Getting back to Shotguns......I had a chance a few years back to go on a deer hunt in Illinois. I purchased a rifled slug barrel with cantilever scope mount for a 12 ga 870 supermag. I mounted a 3x9 Burris scope on her and took it to my backyard range and tried her out with a variety of slugs. they ranged from 3"-2 3/4". Thank goodness i own a lead sled cause the 3" rounds were brutal on this old man shooting from a sand bag. Best group were the Hornady 2 3/4" red tip sabots printing a 3" group @ 100 yds. Never got to shoot a deer but can only imagine what damage they would do. Will all this being said.....by the time I added the rifled barrel, scope and sling to my gun it seemed awful heavy....I would hate to know I had to lug it very far up them thar hills. Now a savage 20 ga bolt gun shooting 3" slugs might be a whole nuther story!!!



I'm not much for really heavy rifles either. One of the things I liked about the A-Bolt 12ga was what I considered it's moderate weight. It feels good in hand and I decided to compare the weight to a "similar" rifle. It turned out to be about 3oz lighter with it's 1.5-5 30mm scope than a M77 Hawkeye SS in .35 Whelen that I have which has a Sig Sauer 1-5 scope on top. Both hovered right around 8.5 pounds scoped.


----------



## strothershwacker (Jul 9, 2019)

Ye don't have to attend every argument your invited to.


----------



## Heath (Jul 9, 2019)

Rabun said:


> oh yea...shotguns for bear.  Almost forgot.  I would use a slug in a 20 or 12 without hesitation but my 835 and 870 rattle when I carry them.  Full disclosure...have not killed one yet.  Maybe this Fall



You got that right,  some of them 870’s are loose and have lots of rattle.  
It reminds me of what a good friend once told me.  I said I want a nice smooth safety that I can ease off quietly.  He said he wanted it to have a nice loud snap when he clicked it off.  So that it was the last thing they heard before leaving this world!!!


----------



## tree cutter 08 (Jul 9, 2019)

Lots of folks have used shotguns for everything since they were invented. Nothing against them but I prefer a good accurate rifle in any caliber over them 100 to 1. I'm just not a shotgun man.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Jul 9, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> While on a bear hunt in Canada a bear guide told me he preferred 12gauge slugs over anything for stopping black bear, Any of you guys sling slugs at em, what about buckshot?


Beings he was a guide, I would guess he ment stopping a charging bear, not bear hunting. There are very few if any firearms with more punch than a 12 gauge shotgun chunking a 1 oz. slug at "charging " distance.


----------



## Heath (Jul 9, 2019)

While fishing in Colorado we became aquatinted with a man that guided elk hunts for a living.  He invited us to his home for supper and we visited all evening.  While looking through his trophy room I asked him what his favorite elk gun was.  He said that one, and pointed to a Remington .243 leaned up against his safe.  He said they require clients to bring .30 caliber or larger rifles because the largest majority can’t shoot their own rifle.  They need the extra to help insure a fatal hit because more often than not they made poor shots.  He said every trophy elk in that room was taken with that .243 and he was comfortable out to 300 yards with it and had killed many at that distance.  He said it would do it farther but his eyes wouldn’t.  
A man confident in his rifle with a good understanding of what it is and isn’t capable of and with a good understanding of what he himself is and isn’t capable of is a recipe for success.


----------



## Big7 (Jul 9, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> I have shot a lot of types of buckshot in my life, but have very little experience with slugs. I've shot foster styles just for fun, but my old mossberg doesnt make much for accuracy.
> Can you describe what kinds of accuracy you are able to achieve with Brenneke slugs? I'm interested and generally just curious. If I could manage to get some alright groups at 40 yards with my smoothbore, I might really be compelled to tote it some just to try for a bear with it. It'd be something new and different to try!



Be more than happy to help. I need to check threads here, and a couple more sites. I need some supper too. I'm hungry. Might be later tonight BUT I WILL GET BACK TO YOU. Thanks for considering my opinion. Give me a few hours. I'll help you work it out.?


----------



## Big7 (Jul 10, 2019)

Killer Kyle said:


> I have shot a lot of types of buckshot in my life, but have very little experience with slugs. I've shot foster styles just for fun, but my old mossberg doesnt make much for accuracy.
> Can you describe what kinds of accuracy you are able to achieve with Brenneke slugs? I'm interested and generally just curious. If I could manage to get some alright groups at 40 yards with my smoothbore, I might really be compelled to tote it some just to try for a bear with it. It'd be something new and different to try!


 
Little time compressed today. Had the Granddaughters for a week. 

This should get you going until I can get more comparison info to you soon as I can. https://www.bing.com/search?q=brenn...8A30954FE741F9AFC86B65A2F39321&FORM=QBRE&sp=4


----------



## oppthepop (Jul 10, 2019)

Lordy boys - and THIS is why the anti hunters win. We spend our energies bashing each other. Just my 2 cents -


----------



## ScarFoot (Jul 10, 2019)

Now that everybody is calm, do any of you actively keep moving while your bear hunting in the Mtns, like squirrel hunting as opposed to scouting feed trees then taking a seat, if so what's your method? I generally cover 4-10 miles a day keeping the wind in my face. While hunting deer/hogs I roughly plan my routes in areas I know well and drop pins and GPS my way through when I go into an area blind. If I find a thicket with heavy sign nearby I get right in it. If game is present I often get shots at close range (often measured in feet not yards), I like midday best as they are usually settled in and not expecting company. Does anyone hunt similiarly and do you think it would work for bear?


----------



## Joe Brandon (Jul 10, 2019)

That's how I shot the bear in my avatar. It was wet and on the suggestion of Treecutter I opted to stalk due to the damp, quite ground. It paid off.


----------



## Joe Brandon (Jul 10, 2019)

I personally don't think any one deserves to get mauled, but hey, the bear dosnet "deserve " to get killed. It's an inherent risk. Part of the deal, par for the course. Anytime you do anything in life you run a risk. You hunt an apex predator and you stand the risk of becoming the prey.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss (Jul 11, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> Now that everybody is calm, do any of you actively keep moving while your bear hunting in the Mtns, like squirrel hunting as opposed to scouting feed trees then taking a seat, if so what's your method? I generally cover 4-10 miles a day keeping the wind in my face. While hunting deer/hogs I roughly plan my routes in areas I know well and drop pins and GPS my way through when I go into an area blind. If I find a thicket with heavy sign nearby I get right in it. If game is present I often get shots at close range (often measured in feet not yards), I like midday best as they are usually settled in and not expecting company. Does anyone hunt similiarly and do you think it would work for bear?


I hunt like that. The adrenaline rush from stalking prey is 10x what I get from ambushing but I will do it that way if the situation calls for it and the freezer is running low. The only bear I've killed while sitting was the first one. I had no idea what I was doing but I thought I had found bear sign and I was gonna come up with a plan when the sun came up. There was a bear 50 yards away at first light and that was that. Stupid lucky haha.


----------



## ScarFoot (Jul 11, 2019)

Have you slipped on a bear successfully while on foot?


----------



## jbogg (Jul 11, 2019)

Slipping up on a bear is very doable if you move quietly and are conscious of the wind.  They see almost as well as we do, but they are not wired like a prey animal.


----------



## Buckman18 (Jul 11, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> Have you slipped on a bear successfully while on foot?



I have. And more than a few 100 times in my life I’ve plain walked up on them. If they don’t know it’s hunting season, It’s not hard to see one. On the flip side, if they know they’re being hunted, or if you’re in a state that allows dog hunting, they’ll disappear.


----------



## Raylander (Jul 11, 2019)

Shoot, I had one slip up on me just last week. I was walking an old logging cut back to a stream. Heavy deer tracks on the cut, with fawns in tow. It came from uphill of me, showed its self beside a huge rock @ 30 yds or so and just sat down. Big ole block headed rascal. He didn’t budge either. I hollered at him for a few mins while he just sat and stared at me. I backed out slowly.. Only time I’ve ever had one not scoot once they realized what I was. I firmly believe he was hunting fawns and piglets from above that old road bank.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss (Jul 19, 2019)

ScarFoot said:


> Have you slipped on a bear successfully while on foot?


Yea man, tons of em. I'm not gonna say it's easy but it's very do-able. Finding a bear to stalk is the hard part. If you have good wind you can get away with a fair amount of noise since a decent bear isn't scared of much. If it's loud walking try to "camouflage" your noise using the ambient sounds as "cover". As far as vision, they usually will not notice you unless you move while in their field of vision. Their peripheral vision is much worse than deer or other prey animals.


----------

