# help



## Rebtater (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey guys  I kinda inherited a blackpowder rifle from my wifes grandpa.  I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge on this gun.  All I know is that it was made in spain (stamped on the barrel)  I have found a makers mark of a shield with a "M" in it  cannot locate any ser number on it at this time and it has an octagon barrel.  The Ram rod is wooden. All i know is that it looks old

Im planning on taking it to a local gun shop to have it checked out but thought someone on here might know a bit about it.  ill get some pictures uploaded later tonight if it will help.


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## flyfisher76544 (Jan 7, 2013)

picts!!!!!!!


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## Rebtater (Jan 8, 2013)

here it is    sorry the pics aint much better wifey has the digital camera hemmed up some where so all i have is my broken cell phone that fell out of the tree stand this weekend....






at the end of the barrell i did locate some a number im suspecting of being a ser type number   foward of that there is a stamp that reads made in spain   45 cal  and a  shield that has a capital m in it.  I have read somewhere that a brand jukar?  usually has that brand stamped behind there ser number.  this is not the case on this one.  also it has a octagon barrel.


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## flyfisher76544 (Jan 8, 2013)

The Spanish had several different proof marks but starting in 1927 they started using Letters for the year the barrel was proofed. According to the chart in the link below, your barrel was proofed in 1941 in Eibar proof house in Eibar Spain. Hope you can find that camera soon. I would like to see more of the actual marks.

http://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html

http://home.kpn.nl/vlimmere/spanishproofs.htm

Hope this helps some, at least it will give you a year to narrow down your search for who actually built the rifle.


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## Rebtater (Jan 8, 2013)

I will be able to get more pics of it tonight and post them I promise.  I have shot all types of weapons from military class to hunting class but i have never shot or thought of using black powder guns until the last year or so.  This is a first for me and im really excited!   Even if its not old old  its still a treasure to me and will always be one of my favorite guns because im having to research it to learn it.  ill have more pics tonight.


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## snook24 (Jan 8, 2013)

Pretty gun and good luck on your search


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## Rebtater (Jan 9, 2013)

Here are the pics of the markings on the gun.


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## Whiteeagle (Jan 9, 2013)

Rebater, it appears that you have an early Jukar, made in Spain, .45 cal "Kentucky" rifle. A gunsmith could answer a lot of your unasked questions, such as shootable condition. This gun was made to shoot patched round balls. Hope you get many years of enjoyable shooting from it!


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## Rebtater (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks guys...im still going to have a gunsmith check  it out because i dont know the first thing about the gun and want to make sure its in firing condition before i even concider taking it out back and shooting it.   Still looking for what i need in order to operate it correctly    grams of powder balls  waddings and such.  if you guys have any suggestions let me here them as im REAL new to that type of weapon.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok I'll try to answer that question.

You will need a measure. I use an adjustable one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/71...in-5-grain-increments-clear-polymer-and-brass

This one is cheaper and will do the job just fine.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/44...asure-20-to-120-grains-in-10-grain-increments

You need some patches for loading and cleaning. You really need to experiment to find the exact patch and lube and ball that your rifle prefers but I would start with something like this.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...ith-precision-lube-2000-cotton-package-of-100

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/38...n-flannel-gun-cleaning-patches-package-of-250

You can use just about any cleaning patches so find something as cheap as you can. In fact I suggest going to Wal Mart and getting the pillow ticking or some cotton flannel, be sure it is cotton and thick like about 0.18.

You can use a substitute like Pyrodex powder but I prefer GOEX in the FFFg grade. GOEX can be hard to find as it is classified as an explosive, however you can have it delivered to your home. Bass Pro generally has it but you have to sk the right person and explain to them that it will be in their magazine.

http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

You can get it from other places as well but be aware that there is a hazmat charge as well as the shipping charge. Powder INC includes all that in their price you just have to order in 5 lb lots.

You will need round ball. 45 caliber requires something like .440 ball. You rifle may prefer .440 ball and a 0.10 patch or a 0.15 or it may prefer a 0.435 ball with a 0.18 or 0.20 patch. Only way to know is thru load testing.

I suggest starting with those 0.15 patches and a 0.440 ball.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/72...45-caliber-440-diameter-round-ball-box-of-100

You are going to need some cleaning supplies as well. Ball puller, brush and patch jag at the very least. You might want to find out what screw pitch your ram rod is for these items and I suggest getting a longer rod to use as a range rod, same screw pitch would be awesome so you do not need two of the jag and puller cause you need to carry them when you hunt just in case. You also need a flask or powder horn, and never ever pour straight from the flask or horn into the bore after a shot as there could be a smolder in there and you might ignite it when you ram the ball home. You may want a short starter of some sort as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...-cleaning-jag-45-caliber-10-x-32-thread-brass

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/856133/thompson-center-black-powder-bullet-puller-45-caliber

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/51...r-bore-brush-45-caliber-10-x-32-thread-bronze

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...-cleaning-jag-45-caliber-10-x-32-thread-brass

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/220581/cva-trophy-bullet-starter-polymer-black

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/657112/cva-ramrod-accessories-pack-45-caliber

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/877801/cva-rifle-pistol-nipple-wrench-steel

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/32...er-and-ramrod-extension-lightweight-composite

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/949569/cva-straight-line-capper-holds-15-11-percussion-caps-brass

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/561677/thompson-center-ramrod-accessory-kit-45-caliber

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711044/cva-range-model-flask-with-30-grain-spout-brass-5-oz

I'd start with 45 grains of powder and a patch and ball. Shoot that load a bit to you get a feel for the thing then you might work down till you find the most accurate load and use that for small game. Work your way up till you find the most accurate load around 70-80 grains for larger game.

Plain ole water with a drop or three of dish washing liquid is fine for cleaning and I use bore butter for rust prevention. I really burnish in that bore butter, some do not like it and they use a regular ole gun oil. IF you use a regular gun oil be sure to get it out well before loading and shooting as blackpowder fouling tends not to like petroleum products.

I know I have forgotten something but that ought to get you started.

Oh grab a two liter soda bottle and cut off the top use that for cleaning, you need some sort of tube to connect from nipple to bottle with a nut or two on it to keep it down in the water. Put the tube on the nipple then down in your soda bottle of soapy water then a cleaning patch on your jag and work it up and down in the bore till it sucks in some water until that comes out the bore and do that a couple times til the bore is good and clean. I generally replace the water a couple times, then use plain water to rinse and then a dry patch to dry the bore then butter it up and burnish it in to protect the bore. Then I have a couple straight brushes to clean the outside well around the nipple. Then I take some bore butter on a patch and burnish the everything well. (burnish means rub it in pretty hard)


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 10, 2013)

Yep I left out caps...  #11 caps ought to work just fine and I generally buy the magnum caps myself.

Be realnice if you could find someone close who shoots a cap lock to take with you to the "range" on your first trip. Tho you can just read the manual again and again and go it alone.


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## flintlocker (Jan 10, 2013)

tv_racin_fan said:


> Ok I'll try to answer that question.
> 
> You will need a measure. I use an adjustable one.
> 
> ...



Sound advise! 
Cep't for the bore butter.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 11, 2013)

flintlocker said:


> Sound advise!
> Cep't for the bore butter.


 
Some do not like bore butter. I have no issue with it except for the silly seasoning claim. It does not work well for rust prevention if you do not burnish it in. I burnish it in mine so hard my fingers hurt before I finish and I have to rest a bit. It aint for everyone. I use the soda bottle trick but my barrel comes off so I have no need for the tubing. I also use some Hoppes #9 PLUS at times or TC #13 or TC #17.

Some time back I mentioned that my revolver was sitting in the sink in hot water soaking. Some guy in chat said I was a fool even after I explained that it was blackpowder and cleaned with soapy water.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 11, 2013)

Brother in law has a TC Hawken. A nephew borrowed it shot it then without cleaning it he put it in a closet where the BIL found it some months later. I worked on cleaning that thing up for some time. Scrubbed it with a brass bristle brush and some hoppes or some auto trans fluid. It has a couple spots I couldn't save but other than that you would never know it was done that way. Reminds me I need to give it another going over and return it.


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## Rebtater (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks guys.  Ya'll have really got me stoked on getting this gun right and using it.


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