# opinions on letter in April GON "coyotes must be killed"



## jay sullivent (Apr 2, 2005)

i think it's a little over the top,  honesty i think most of it is a load of crap! i know a lot of people hate coyotes, i don't hate them myself, but i would shoot one while deer hunting and would really enjoy hunting for them specifacally, it sounds like a lot of fun. but to say "the reason we are seeing less deer is because of the "eating machine" coyotes.", is not true in my opinion at all. fox hunters brought the coyote into the state? is the coyote not a native species? coyotes "also bring down full grown deer all the time"? the last paragraph of the letter is down right rediculous, we must kill off the coyotes or the deer population will go down to less than 300 like it was in the early 1900's?  give me a break!!! why not blame the "deer shortage" on killing too many does like the rest of the people who belive there is a deer shortage (which i don't)?


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## sweatequity (Apr 2, 2005)

*I agree with you...*

but do believe they make a negative impact on the deer population.  No were does that impact come close to hunters!  I have watched a coyote stalk a deer before but it was a futile effort at best.  

My theory is that they hunt only fawns and keep an eye on unhealthy or wounded deer.


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## Buckbuster (Apr 2, 2005)

Coyotes are not native to Ga. We started seeing a few around the late 60s or early 70s, now they are plentiful and here to stay. We will never get rid of them. I also read somewhere that the red fox is not native, brought here from England many years ago. Gray fox is a native animal.


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## gabuckeye (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm a lot more concerned about what the yotes do to the turkey population.  I have killed many yotes that came sneaking in when I'm turkey hunting.  I also think the yotes have hurt the rabbit and quail populations.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 2, 2005)

it's a drop in the bucket compared to what hunters ,land developers, and timber companies(in reference to quail) have done! native or not, the yotes are part of our wilderness now, heck they gotta eat! hunters can keep the populations in check. i just don't think they to be comepletely eraticated. we've already done it to the wolves ("we" is not refering to hunters, but all people), and they will never return. the yotes have filled their little nich in the eco system.


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## Woody (Apr 2, 2005)

Yep -- they can be bad news.

Link -- http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=5680&highlight=coyote


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## jay sullivent (Apr 2, 2005)

but what is your take on the letter, Woody? he's saying if we don't kill all the yotes, there will soon be hardly any deer. why no deer attacks by yotes on trail cams? how do we know the deer in the bellies of your yotes are not roadkill?


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## Woody (Apr 2, 2005)

No --- I don't feel all Yotes should be exterminated. They do fulfill a purpose. -- We couldn't get rid of them completely even if we wanted to. -- Although it's hard explaining that to a man who's just had a couple of Cows or Calves killed by them.

As for them doing away with all the Deer? -- Never happen.

Only humans can do that.


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## bull0ne (Apr 2, 2005)

I have 5-6 minutes of footage of a old dog coyote eating oats in a plot.
Two young deer came to feed and i got them all in the frame at one time, the coyote never broke stride eating and barely looked at the deer. 
The deer snorted and stomped, finally spooking, the coyote finished eating then left going the other way.

Fast forward two years and a couple miles away, as i packed the truck one night i heard a pack of coyotes run a deer 3 seperate times into a beaver pond, over the course of two hours.
It sounded like a dog hunt, they would jump the deer at the edge of the fields and run in circles then into the water where the race would stop.
I took it to be a pack of young coyotes, with all the yipping going on.


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## HT2 (Apr 3, 2005)

*My Opinion...........*

If you see 'em......

Kill 'em!!!!!!!!

No matter when you see them............

Kill 'em!!!!!!!!


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## GAR (Apr 3, 2005)

*Coyotes...*

Coyotes are opportunistic feeders. They are omnivores and flourish in almost any type of surrounding.

Coyotes will decimate your small game population very quickley. Provided the right conditions they will get out of hand. Just like any game animal. 

Wondering where the turkey's, rabbits and other small game disappered too? Coyotes got them.

Live in a subdivison surrounded by woods? Got cats and small dogs missing with no trace. Coyotes got them.

As you have probaly fiqured out I hate COYOTES!!!!!!!!!!!

Never seen one take down a full grown healthy deer but they are the devil on fawns. They will also take down a wounded or injured deer that can not defend itself.

Trap them or shoot them is the only viable option. Poison affects way to many other animals.

Might get back into it if I can find property access.

GAR


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## Buzz (Apr 3, 2005)

If I see one - it will eat a bullet.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 3, 2005)

got coyotes on my leased property. also got turkeys, quail, lots of bunnies, deer, chipmonks, doves, ect. ect. when did all the turkeys and rabbits disappear? i wasn't aware that that happened! if you walk in the woods and don't see any critters.. maybe they're all hiding!


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## Joe Moran (Apr 3, 2005)

The problem with yotes, is that they breed year round, just like dogs. If we don't shoot all that we see, they will get out of control in a hurry.

They're not too easy to kill. Our property is ate up with them, but I have only seen a handfull of them while deer hunting.

They are omnivorous & opportunistic feeders, but they ARE predators. Anyone that thinks that they will not have a negative impact on ALL game species is mistaken.

I'm sure that it's rare that they would ever take down a healthy mature deer, they will gladly gobble up any fawns they can find.

As fast as they reproduce, we can shoot as many as we want, & we will never get rid of them all.

At least they are good for cleaning up our gut piles!


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## HT2 (Apr 3, 2005)

*Joe........*

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!

Besides.........

I eat deer meat.........

I don't eat yote meat........


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## jay sullivent (Apr 3, 2005)

i'm gonna shoot everyone i get a chance to shoot. i have yet to see one while hunting. i'd love to try and trap some.i'd like a yote skin to add to my collection! they are some sly little devils.


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## gadeerwoman (Apr 5, 2005)

I'm with Woodrow. They have their place. I think coyotes get blamed for a lot of kills that are made by domestic dogs. I believe the domesticated dog that is allowed to run loose kills more fawns and wildlife that coyotes. The coyote may feed on what the dog kills and leaves. Unfortunately free roaming dogs kill for the chase, boredom and enjoyment and not to eat. They will kill a fawn or a calf and be back home by daylight sitting on the doorstep. I've talked to a lot of farmers and cattle owners who have seen the damage done by the neighboring dogs. Had a cousin who had a black lab and a pit mix who used to come home every few days during late spring and summer with blood on their faces from chasing deer on WMA land. Should have been eliminated after the first time it happened but they didn't care. I've got some dogs right now running my property every day. When I catch them they are going to find a new home.


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## Chuck Martin (Apr 5, 2005)

I shot two year before last running a yearling doe. Her tounge was out about a foot and she was outta gas, another few minutes and she'da been yote scat. I've shot about a dozen between here and Texas over the years coming into turkey calls also. They'll eat whatever they can catch the easiest at the time. Jay, GON has carried several trailcam pics of yotes toting fawns and somebody on here used to have an avatir of a couple trying to bring down a buck.

Should we kill all we see? I'm of the opinion that if we shoot all we see it will be just a drop in the bucket of whats out of there running around. I love to hunt and call them and do all spring and summer both here and Texas. But yotes are among the smartest animals in the field. Theres an old indain saying that says something to the effect that the coyote will still be here after everything else passes on.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 5, 2005)

i have "found a new home" for many dogs trying to get to my rabbits when i used to raise them. they would pull their toes through the hardware cloth that was the bottom of the cage and bite them off. my nieghbors have had a lot of goats and ducklings killed by neighborhood dogs. it is hard to "find them a new home" once they know you're after them, but persistence usually pays off.


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## gadeerwoman (Apr 6, 2005)

One morning before daylight I walked up on a bedded doe on some land I leased. She was laying on the ground, foam coming out of her mouth. I thought she had been night shot and walked right up to her. She could barely lift her head. I touched her and she didn't even get up, just shivered. She was burning up her body was so hot. I climbed in my stand about 25 yards away thinking that as soon as it got daylight, I would get down come back and shoot her if she was still in the same shape. Daylight came, I went back and she was gone but you could follow her trail by the foam droplets and the marks she made dragging herself along. No blood anywhere. As I stood there puzzled, I heard the neighboring pack of 6 pet dogs coming. They came right in on her trail looking to finish the job.  Once a dog has a taste of killing they make it a habit. They ran deer on that land constantly and the dog owners refused to put the dogs up. I hate shooting a dog and seldom do it but there comes a time when the dog unfortunately pays the price for an irresponsible owner.


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## Chuck Martin (Apr 6, 2005)

*Very good point Sandra*

Good point about domestic dogs, once they begin running deer down, their instincts of millions of years take over and they redevelop feral habits although they may still be a pet. I believe that we all agree that a dog will develop these feral instincts left to their own accord..........so why is it so hard to believe that a coyote is any different? We all, I assume, agree that they are oppertunist feeders and are pack animals and given the chance will take down and kill a deer or turkey.........no different than a domestic dog left to their own accord.

My point being that they must be mannaged as a nuisence animal or they will devistate our regional ecosystem. Someone mentioned wolves..........talk to the folks around Yellowstone about the reintroduction of wolves and get their opinion on what damage an unchecked preditor population will do.


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## Toffy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Coyote impact*

There have historically been deer and coyotes in Texas.
The research there suggests that coyotes are not a limiting factor on deer numbers there.
It is harder to raise a fawn in Texas than in Georgia due to drought.
Consequently, the impact from coyote predation on deerwould be more detremental there than here.
Do coyotes kill deer here?
Yes I think they do.
Should coyotes be taken out as often as possible? Yes, I think they should.
Which kills more deer, coyotes or cars?  Not even close I think. I'll bet on the bumper.
Consequently, I think coyotes do have an impact, but I think it is likely a very small impact.

Turkeys is a different story. Best way to kill a  coyotes is to go turkey hunting.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 6, 2005)

Chuck Martin said:
			
		

> My point being that they must be mannaged as a nuisence animal or they will devistate our regional ecosystem. Someone mentioned wolves..........talk to the folks around Yellowstone about the reintroduction of wolves and get their opinion on what damage an unchecked preditor population will do.





 the way i see it, they are part of the ecosystem now. native or not. are the pheasants in the midwest part of the ecosystem there? i think so, but they are not native.   


gadeerwoman- don't look at it as killing the dogs, look at it as sending them to god. just sounds more peaceful. as far as i know it is legal to kill a dog if it is actively chasing livestock. is this right Chuck?


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## gabowman (Apr 6, 2005)

In my opinion (not based on facts, rather just my opinion) hunting was much better before the coyotes were introduced here. Quail hunters still ran their dogs which is almost unheard of here anymore except for trials or releasing pen raised birds. Rabbit hunters across the county still bagged rabbits. Now they kill one or two if lucky, unless they make a trip to a place where for some reason there is still an abundant supply in another county. Most races wind up with a rabbit running in a hole very quick now instead of like years past when dogs would run 'em in circles until they loose the track or the rabbit would bite the bullet. I used to see ALOT more fawn tracks than I do now too. Practically all does would have fawns tagging along during bow seasons past but now I would guess one out of three does might have fawns. Looking around fields I see coyotes tracks routinely. During summer months I'd ride dirt roads and see 2 or 3 hen turkeys with 20-30 little ones tagging along. Now I'm lucky to see more than 2 or 3 with a hen by the time they're old enough to fly. 

My opinion is we dont need coyotes here to keep any of the game animals in check. We survived before the days of coyotes here so yes, I'll shoot all I see when the opportunity presents itself and I'd love to know we could kill 'em all out, but that isnt possible IMO. 

I've varmint hunted a very few times with a little success and I know that varmint hunters like having the added coyote for hunting sport. I guess it's a "rush" anytime you're calling your quarry up whatever it might be that you're hunting. Some would even like to see the wiley 'ole coyote thrive, but I aint one of those "varminters". I, for one, could go without ever seeing another 'yote track where I hunt and be tickled to death over it.   

GB


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## jay sullivent (Apr 6, 2005)

hate the timber companies for lower quail numbers, not the yote. owls and hawks take rabbits, do you want to kill all of them? it is perfectly natural for a small percentage of turkey chicks to reach adulthood. it was an irrational hatred of wolves that cause them to diappear from their native wilderness. i still see lots of fawns during bow season. i got lots of yotes on my lease, and lots of quail, and rabbits. many people still successfully hunt rabbits.if you've got no rabbits it is more likely from overhunting or disease than yotes. kill all the yotes you can, but don't hate them. how could someone that loves nature or the outdoors hate a wild animal??? believe what you want, but consider my point of view, i'll consider yours, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. mother nature does not need us to protect it, it more often needs to be protected from us.


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## gadeerwoman (Apr 7, 2005)

Destruction of habitat due to agricultural changes is responsible for the lower number of quail and rabbits for the most part. Farmers don't leave hedgerows anymore and quail must have good cover to survive. Increased herbicide and insecticide usage is another notch in the quail demise. Incidentally coyotes were not brought to Ga to control small game populations. They were brought to Ga by hunters who wanted another animal to hunt, one that would populate quickly and one that did not have a season. And thats the same way that most of the feral hogs we see today in the state started out. They were released by folks who wanted to hunt them. Now we curse both the coyote and the hog for ruining our food plots and eating whatever they can catch. Guess we reap what we sow.
Here's an interesting note on quail restoration: http://www.quailrestoration.com/control.htm


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## Throwback (Apr 7, 2005)

ANyone that thinks coyotes alone will destroy the deer population has slipped off plumb. THey will kill them, but not to the extent the letter says. it was over the top. 


T


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## coon dawg (Apr 8, 2005)

*..........*

agree with Throwback.......


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## gadeerwoman (Apr 8, 2005)

And you can shoot every one you see and you'll not make a dent. Coyotes are smarter than we are! If we had to 'hunt' coyotes and roaches in order to keep them in check we'd lose big time (oh, wait, we already are losing that battle aren't we?)


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## edge (Apr 12, 2005)

*coyotes*

Think about this: If coyotes were native to the southeast...how come they were not here 50 years ago? Don't say "people" killed them off, because everyone has agreed you CAN'T killem' off...so don't say we could have decimated the polulation 100 years ago and can't do it now with all of our technology. No, they are native to west of the Mississippi, and migrated here as their numbers increased after poisons were outlawed out west. Also, I guess some really smart dude brought in a few....just like the really smart dudes that stocked feral hogs....now there is a success story!! So I have no problem with the eradication of non-native species. Coyotes, hogs, whatever.
A recently introduced species is not an integral part of the ecosystem. Don't worry, the bobcats, hawks, owls and foxes will take care of any overuns in the rodent or small game population. And loose pet and feral dogs and cats? Lets eradicate these, too. They kill thousands and thousands of all kinds of birds and mammals. Who is going to argue that they have a "place" in the outdoors, too?


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## GeauxLSU (Apr 12, 2005)

erifle said:
			
		

> So I have no problem with the eradication of non-native species. Coyotes, hogs, whatever.


Me neither.  Pheasants, striped bass, etc....
You see, one man's garbage is another man's treasure.  
But in principle, I completely agree.  Native species always suffer at the hands of non-native.  
I will admit, I hunt 950 acres with TONS of coyotes and dogs.  Granted there is hundreds of acres of very old clear cut that you can't see 1 foot in after green up, so I know that helps, but there is a resident wild quail population, pretty good turkeys and deer.  Albeit not nearly as much deer sign as I would expect to see (maybe they have soft feet?).  
Anyway, if every coyote was gone from Georgia tomorrow, it may be a wash or it may be better for game species.  Feel pretty certain it wouldn't be worse. Soooo.... in the meantime, hunt away!    
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## jay sullivent (Apr 12, 2005)

striped bass are native phil!!  maybe not to some of the lakes, but the lake itself is manmade anyway!


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## GeauxLSU (Apr 12, 2005)

jay sullivent said:
			
		

> striped bass are native phil!!  maybe not to some of the lakes, but the lake itself is manmade anyway!


I'm not talking about any one lake.  In general.  Striped bass are often stocked in lakes where they never existed.  Other native species suffer.  So are herring.  We (man) are constantly messing around with the natural balance of species and we are very arbitrary about which ones we think are 'good' (like the ones I mentioned) and which ones are 'bad' (yotes for example).  I say any tampering is BAD.  The only thing I remotely support is reintroduction of formerly native species (like Elk in the Smokies for example).  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## Throwback (Apr 12, 2005)

What about feral people???


T


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## GeauxLSU (Apr 12, 2005)

Throwback said:
			
		

> What about feral people???
> T


Zero Population growth.  Another one nobody supports.  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## camo93 (Apr 13, 2005)

*shoot them all...*

There is not a single road on our property that doesn’t have coyote scat (with rabbit hair, deer hair, persimmon seeds). I’ve seen three different yotes this year hunting and I tried shooting every one of them. They are always on the run…

I love to rabbit hunt and I know they are impacting the rabbit population. We use to kill hundreds of rabbits for many years and the last couple we only shot about 30 a year.. 

I don’t care if it’s a Hog, yote or a domestic dog, it’s not welcome on my property and I’ll try to shoot them all with a smile.. I’m a deer hunter that enjoys deer meat and I’m going to keep it that way..


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## GAMHUNTER35 (Apr 16, 2005)

Yea  I Shoot  Them  When  I  See  Them  I  Also  Shoot Every Armidillo  I  See  To.


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## PFDR1 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Cow Killers*

A couple of months ago a man that I work for had 1 of his cows and a new born calf killed by a pack of Yotes. Very costly. I say the best medicine for a yote is something in 7.62x39 in Semi-automatic, preferably 124gr.JHP or a 7mm Rem Mag. right in the head.JMO


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## jay sullivent (Apr 22, 2005)

a"pack" of coyotes killing a full grown cow?!  i'll believe that when i see it. dogs would be more believable.


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## PFDR1 (Apr 23, 2005)

Jay! I havn't seen any dogs out there but I have climbed back into my stand when I saw about 6 Yotes together about 100yrds from me when I was trying to go home after the days hunt.?????? I think that the cow might have died from exhaustion(SP) trying to protect her calf. However there were multiple bite marks on her.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 24, 2005)

you didn't unload on them? yotes are generally solitary. i'm still skeptical. it's not impossible that yotes did it but dogs would be more likely. you can't say for sure that it was yotes and not dogs. my neighbors have had dogs kill their goats on many occasions. dogs get very mischievous at night.


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## PFDR1 (Apr 24, 2005)

I didn't unload on them because my hunting partner was in the woods back behind where they were messing around at the time and I wasn't exactly sure of his location or if he had already started getting out of the woods. We usually come out at a certain time and link up at a prominant feature that you can still see when it gets dark and then walk out together. But I climbed back into the tree and later found out that so did he.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 24, 2005)

the group of yotes you saw was probably a mother with her juvenile young. i must ask you... was your nighbor's calf eaten, or just dead and chewed up? or was it gone comepletely?


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## PFDR1 (Apr 24, 2005)

The Calf was completely devoured minus the bones and skull and the Cow was about 1/3 missing from the hind quarter up.


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## jay sullivent (Apr 24, 2005)

just curious cause dogs leave their kill uneaten. very well could have been yotes i suppose.


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## Woody (Apr 24, 2005)

A friend of mine had four yotes attack one of his Cows.

He shot two of the yotes off the cow but still had to put it down. They had cut both hamstrings.

We mounted the largest -- a male approximately 60 pounds.

Rabun county had a big problem with calves being killed. I think they killed 12 coyotes from one pasture at night.


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## PFDR1 (Apr 24, 2005)

One evening when I was hunting during bow season I watched 3 of them at about 60yrd. I watched the big black male bite a smaller grey juvenille about 3 times and I think there was a grey female that was with them but not sure. About 15 minutes prior to them showing up I watched a young doe walk the same trail that they ended up going down. Wish I could have taken the Big black male out of the scenario but the shot never presented itself.


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