# Bear Dog Training



## Hammer Spank (Jul 25, 2015)

Did everyone else know that this was legalized in the CNF this year?  I wasnt at any of the meetings but several of my friends were and nobody mentioned this being brought up. Was this just snuck in under our noses?  

As a group, we need to make sure that bear dogging is never legalized in north ga. It completely ruines the possibility of killing bears with spot and stalk and stand hunting methods. I cant believe that I did not know about this until now. I do not want us to become north carolina.


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## NGA Hunter (Jul 25, 2015)

There has been a bear dog training season for a few years now on CNF. Page 69 last years regulations has the season dates.


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## Hammer Spank (Jul 25, 2015)

I have never noticed that, nor have I seen anyone doing it. Maybe ive just been lucky.


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## pinky88 (Jul 25, 2015)

I don't understand why we as hunters can't stick together. Its not the dog hunters fault if you can't kill a bear in the mountains. They are not allowed to kill them or allowed to train the dogs during the firearms bear season.


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## The mtn man (Jul 25, 2015)

It's been legal for a while now. As long as they don't run them before or during season it probably won't matter as far as the bear hunting goes, dogging them does make them hard to kill during the day, they become nocturnal and extremely elusive. The deer issue is what you guys need to worry about, some bear doggers are stand up sportsmen that keep only good dogs, you don't have to worry about them, it's the others that have trash dogs that cause the problem, ask me how I know.


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## PARA1977 (Jul 25, 2015)

Hammer Spank said:


> Did everyone else know that this was legalized in the CNF this year?  I wasnt at any of the meetings but several of my friends were and nobody mentioned this being brought up. Was this just snuck in under our noses?
> 
> As a group, we need to make sure that bear dogging is never legalized in north ga. It completely ruines the possibility of killing bears with spot and stalk and stand hunting methods. I cant believe that I did not know about this until now. I do not want us to become north carolina.


I have to say and im sorry if this ruffles feathers But this is a classic case of very little thought put into research before posting something, Why should dog hunters or trainers not have a season, By the way its The NATIONAL FOREST not Your Forest! If they buy a license and A WMA stamp more power to them, and by the way they can hunt hogs with dogs now too. The seasons do not overlap with any thing other than birdwatching and WE do it at night so you would never be bothered anyway. Not to mention I can take 10 kids with me and show them what a bear looks like alive 
Very few dog hunters kill anything its the joy of watching your dogs do what they love. And I am willing to take anyone of you that wants to go to see for Themselves. V/R


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## tree cutter 08 (Jul 26, 2015)

Wouldn't hurt my feelings if they ran a few more of them into NC.


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## PARA1977 (Jul 27, 2015)

I love still hunting as much as the next guy, I love my hounds too, I just don't see how one effects the other 
if not done during the same seasons, Elk hunters don't whine about people dogging mountain lions with dogs 
Im sure bears kill more fawns in the mountains than we as hunters kill bears, in the cohutta hunt in October last year I believe 5 bears were killed. the December hunt there were 3 killed so 8 bears in 96k acres last season 
in one of the best habitats for bears in GA, I think a few tags for dog hunters wont hurt a thing. V/R


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## ripplerider (Jul 30, 2015)

4 or 5 yrs. ago while driving out a forest service road after a mornings fishing a lot of buzzards flew out from below the road. I stopped to investigate and almost lost my breakfast. There lay the headless, pawless corpse of a tremendous bear, maybe 400 lbs. maybe more. His wrists were as big as my upper thighs. I turned it in of course and talked to the investigator several times. He said they'd had trouble with dog trainers in the Brasstown Bald area before, specifically those from N.C. I never heard anything else about the case, last I heard he was going to put on a Biohazard suit and look for bullets. It was a heck of a waste of a fine animal, hope they caught those responsible.


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## The mtn man (Jul 30, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> I love still hunting as much as the next guy, I love my hounds too, I just don't see how one effects the other
> if not done during the same seasons, Elk hunters don't whine about people dogging mountain lions with dogs
> Im sure bears kill more fawns in the mountains than we as hunters kill bears, in the cohutta hunt in October last year I believe 5 bears were killed. the December hunt there were 3 killed so 8 bears in 96k acres last season
> in one of the best habitats for bears in GA, I think a few tags for dog hunters wont hurt a thing. V/R



Your right about that, if cahutta was open to dog hunters, there would have been at least 10 times that many killed, and that's not a bad thing, from experience I can tell you that haveing a free for all bear dog hunt can cause big problems, it wouldn't be a bad thing if it was opened and regulated somewhat, for instance Maine bear hunters get along with the public and deer hunters just fine, that's because there is a limit as to how many dogs a party is allowed to have in the field at a given time. Now if your only allowed to have 4 dogs on a hunt, are you gonna take trashy deer running dogs, no your gonna take straight up bear dogs that will stay on. Bear or come back, the guys that have these dogs are true blue straight up bear hunters, there is no reason for anyone to complain about them, IMO they are doing us all a favor from a deer hunting standpoint. My experience is folks come to my area from everywhere, several different states, turn out packs of whatever dogs here and there, put a tracker on one out of each group, then sit back and see which group of trash stumbles up on a bear and trees it while the rest of them are doing whatever.  Folks can believe me or don't, but in the past few years I have actually seen several deer caught by so called bear dogs actually in the highway, I know we had this discussion before and some folks disagreed that a pack of dogs could actually catch a deer, but they apparently have never seen 20 dogs chase a deer in the mountains. There's no reason to have that many dogs for a bear, I know folks want to train pups, but all you need is 2-4 good bear dogs to tree a bear, my female walker coonhound trees several by herself coon hunting. I actually seen some guys right here in clay county NC from the bear hunters association pack 70 dogs on 1 little ole bear, now nobody is gonna convince me that you need 70 dogs to tree a 150 pound bear, there were probBly no more than a half dozen of those dogs actually running the bear, the rest were just running around through the mountains barking, now this was 2 days before our deer season opens, and I was scouting because I hunt there, I never saw another deer track in there all year. So that's what deer hunters would look forward to.


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## goshenmountainman (Jul 30, 2015)

I have found two bears in the woods dead, headless and paw less. Pretty sure they were dog hunters seeing they were both found about two miles behind a locked gate that was laying on the side of the road jerked out of the ground by a chain. And plenty of dog and human tracks in the road.


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## whitetailfreak (Jul 30, 2015)

I am adamantly opposed to bear dogging in North Georgia. I come from a long line of WNC bear doggers, and I do not want what they have in WNC. Bear dogging and deer hunting do not go hand in hand.


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## whitetailfreak (Jul 30, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> I love still hunting as much as the next guy, I love my hounds too, I just don't see how one effects the other
> if not done during the same seasons, Elk hunters don't whine about people dogging mountain lions with dogs
> Im sure bears kill more fawns in the mountains than we as hunters kill bears, in the cohutta hunt in October last year I believe 5 bears were killed. the December hunt there were 3 killed so 8 bears in 96k acres last season
> in one of the best habitats for bears in GA, I think a few tags for dog hunters wont hurt a thing. V/R



You're right last year was an off year for Cohutta. The Oct. hunt was plagued by rain, and unseasonably warm temps which resulted in relatively low turnout. In 2011 there were 67 killed total on Cohutta. We average 25-40 between archery and both rifle hunts. Years with bumper mast crop harvest tends to be low.


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## Joe Brandon (Jul 30, 2015)

whitetailfreak said:


> You're right last year was an off year for Cohutta. The Oct. hunt was plagued by rain, and unseasonably warm temps which resulted in relatively low turnout. In 2011 there were 67 killed total on Cohutta. We average 25-40 between archery and both rifle hunts. Years with bumper mast crop harvest tends to be low.



Whitetail just gotta tell you again, some of my favorite pics on this entire GON site are of your mountain hunts. Man that one thread on the deer hunting forum with all of your deer and bear hunting success photos is amazing!


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## whitetailfreak (Jul 31, 2015)

Joe Brandon said:


> Whitetail just gotta tell you again, some of my favorite pics on this entire GON site are of your mountain hunts. Man that one thread on the deer hunting forum with all of your deer and bear hunting success photos is amazing!



Thanks for the kind words. There is nothing I enjoy more than hunting and fishing in these mountains I call home.


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## The mtn man (Jul 31, 2015)

goshenmountainman said:


> I have found two bears in the woods dead, headless and paw less. Pretty sure they were dog hunters seeing they were both found about two miles behind a locked gate that was laying on the side of the road jerked out of the ground by a chain. And plenty of dog and human tracks in the road.



Their found like that here quite often during training season. Most times the feet are just cut off. Most of their dogs will bay hogs too, boars are found all the time with the bottom jaw cut out, the rest left to rot, at least hogs are invasive, no real big complaint, it don't bother some people and that's fine, I just feel like I need to salvage at least hams and back straps.


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## goshenmountainman (Jul 31, 2015)

Yep, hams and back straps smoke real good on the smoker.


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## GA DAWG (Jul 31, 2015)

Id vote today for bear dogging and killing to be legal. I see no reason why its not. Like you say. Training is legal and has been. I know a bunch who do it but they have to go to north carolina to kill them. Thats crazy.  We have a ton of bear. I loaned a trail cam to a boy in June from dawson co. He set it up on coon feeders. Had 900 pics in a few weeks. Mostly bear. All kind of bear. Over populated in bears. Never saw so many different bears on one 1500 ac place. His mama dont want em dead though but dawson forest is only about a mile off and national forest only a few miles. I want everyone to be able to hunt however they like. Have no dogging from sept till nov when they are easiest killed anyhow. Then put the dogs on em.


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## PARA1977 (Aug 2, 2015)

whitetailfreak said:


> You're right last year was an off year for Cohutta. The Oct. hunt was plagued by rain, and unseasonably warm temps which resulted in relatively low turnout. In 2011 there were 67 killed total on Cohutta. We average 25-40 between archery and both rifle hunts. Years with bumper mast crop harvest tends to be low.


 Very True, the weather was bad thought lightning was going to get me before I got out that Friday, Here's the plain truth still hunters in the mountains will never ever be able to control bear numbers, number 1 there is very little private land that bears inhabit that can be hunted by the average guy, so we are left with if you add all the mountain WMAs hunt days up that's a small amount of pressure and even smaller amount of animals harvested 
and yes there is an open bow season, but all those closed gates make it very hard to walk in and get game out so you have very few people hunting land that has the least amount of pressure. And guys all the cutoff paws and heads story's about bears....Really... you can ride any dirt road in Georgia and find deer carcasses with no head and no meat taken so don't act like dog hunters are the only unethical hunters out there. I am aware that 
NC has a far greater bear population than Georgia, and that a lot of guys are soured by the problems it has created, but we as hunters should not use the liberal argument that if I don't doit it can be good. V/R


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## goshenmountainman (Aug 3, 2015)

Did I mention both these bears were found some years back in August with no other season in. Must have been some real legal doggers. I have nothing against dogging but go by the rules like the rest of us. What I found just cheats the rest of us out of opportunity.


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## The mtn man (Aug 3, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> Very True, the weather was bad thought lightning was going to get me before I got out that Friday, Here's the plain truth still hunters in the mountains will never ever be able to control bear numbers, number 1 there is very little private land that bears inhabit that can be hunted by the average guy, so we are left with if you add all the mountain WMAs hunt days up that's a small amount of pressure and even smaller amount of animals harvested
> and yes there is an open bow season, but all those closed gates make it very hard to walk in and get game out so you have very few people hunting land that has the least amount of pressure. And guys all the cutoff paws and heads story's about bears....Really... you can ride any dirt road in Georgia and find deer carcasses with no head and no meat taken so don't act like dog hunters are the only unethical hunters out there. I am aware that
> NC has a far greater bear population than Georgia, and that a lot of guys are soured by the problems it has created, but we as hunters should not use the liberal argument that if I don't doit it can be good. V/R



I agree with most everything your saying, I even think bear dogging in north ga could be helpful, I just think if it is made legal that their should be some thought put into it. You guys really don't want the issues we have, I don't believe most folks are so much opposed to ethical bear hunting with dogs. To be Frank its some of the riff raff  that it attracts. It's kind of like the operation something bruin, there was some merit as to why the whole thing started, LEO just went about it wrong. I can't imagine the complaints that WNC sheriffs offices get about the out of town bear hunters, I have had many, many, many very unpleasant run ins myself, and I'm pretty easy going. If GA did this they should have a limit of allowed dogs per party, that would nip a lot of the problems in the bud right out of the gate. I have stories that you guys probably wouldn't believe, talk about bad experiences. To be honest bears are being ran anyway, it wouldn't make much of a difference except the mountain deer hunters would lose more deer season, deer hunting and bear dogs don't mix well.


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## PARA1977 (Aug 3, 2015)

Guys, all im saying while respecting everyone's rights to National 
Forest Land is that it could work just like they have the hog hunts with dogs small quotas and pack limits, It would get my vote, and the ones that say no due to it hurting deer hunting should spend more time killing coyotes in the mountains. We are lucky to have the resources we have in this state and hunters should always stick together so the next generation doesn't have to fight politics to hunt. V/R


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## Hammer Spank (Aug 12, 2015)

There is nothing okay about dogs being allowed to run bears the day before the opening day of archery season. I realize that ga doesnt even have an archery season anymore since they made crossbows legal but I dont want to be hunting pressured bears on opening day. Sorry


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## Hammer Spank (Aug 12, 2015)

pinky88 said:


> I don't understand why we as hunters can't stick together. Its not the dog hunters fault if you can't kill a bear in the mountains. They are not allowed to kill them or allowed to train the dogs during the firearms bear season.



I dont hunt bears during firearms season genius. Should we let dogs run deer on your property the day before you decide to kill some dopey pine goats?


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## Hammer Spank (Aug 12, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> Very True, the weather was bad thought lightning was going to get me before I got out that Friday, Here's the plain truth still hunters in the mountains will never ever be able to control bear numbers, number 1 there is very little private land that bears inhabit that can be hunted by the average guy, so we are left with if you add all the mountain WMAs hunt days up that's a small amount of pressure and even smaller amount of animals harvested
> and yes there is an open bow season, but all those closed gates make it very hard to walk in and get game out so you have very few people hunting land that has the least amount of pressure. And guys all the cutoff paws and heads story's about bears....Really... you can ride any dirt road in Georgia and find deer carcasses with no head and no meat taken so don't act like dog hunters are the only unethical hunters out there. I am aware that
> NC has a far greater bear population than Georgia, and that a lot of guys are soured by the problems it has created, but we as hunters should not use the liberal argument that if I don't doit it can be good. V/R





Sorry, closed gates and large mountain ranges only keep fat and lazy people out. Some of us walk in and hunt the wilderness areas. Not everyone is afraid of burning calories.


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## PARA1977 (Aug 17, 2015)

Hammer Spank said:


> There is nothing okay about dogs being allowed to run bears the day before the opening day of archery season. I realize that ga doesnt even have an archery season anymore since they made crossbows legal but I dont want to be hunting pressured bears on opening day. Sorry



Then don't hunt National Forest ....see you are making an argument for what you don't want on land that we all own.. you need to get a grip or go lease you some land! 

I see no body complaining that they cant run bears in archery season or small game hunters that cant hunt squirrels in deer season, Its a collective of everyone getting what they want which is what we have now.


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## whitetailfreak (Aug 17, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> Then don't hunt National Forest ....see you are making an argument for what you don't want on land that we all own.. you need to get a grip or go lease you some land!
> 
> I see no body complaining that they cant run bears in archery season or small game hunters that cant hunt squirrels in deer season, Its a collective of everyone getting what they want which is what we have now.



Small game hunters can hunt squirrels during deer season.


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## PARA1977 (Aug 17, 2015)

whitetailfreak said:


> Small game hunters can hunt squirrels during deer season.


Not during deer hunts stops on sept11 the day before bow
on 90% of WMAs and is not open on any hunt dates its very broken as to dates look in the book. unless you are hunting NF outside any WMAs


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## whitetailfreak (Aug 17, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> Not during deer hunts stops on sept11 the day before bow
> on 90% of WMAs and is not open on any hunt dates its very broken as to dates look in the book. unless you are hunting NF outside any WMAs



Correct. I was referring to NF outside of WMAs, and thought you were as well since the first sentence of your statement was "then don't hunt National Forest".


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## PARA1977 (Aug 17, 2015)

whitetailfreak said:


> Correct. I was referring to NF outside of WMAs, and thought you were as well since the first sentence of your statement was "then don't hunt National Forest".


I got you bud... in the end its all NF the WMAs seem to be the prime areas and again if you look at a good map its very hard to access NF without going through WMA boundrys.


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## whitetailfreak (Aug 17, 2015)

PARA1977 said:


> I got you bud... in the end its all NF the WMAs seem to be the prime areas and again if you look at a good map its very hard to access NF without going through WMA boundrys.



 the truth is, there has been some good passionate agrguments on both sides of the issue, and in the end we're all on the same team.


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## PARA1977 (Aug 17, 2015)

whitetailfreak said:


> the truth is, there has been some good passionate agrguments on both sides of the issue, and in the end we're all on the same team.



You are correct, and we should never degrade any other hunters method or means to do something they enjoy as long as its legal, especially with natural recourses that belong to us all, I understand the arguments but most are personal preference and very little fact based discussion has been done to draw any conclusions when we are 1 year into this new dog training Law. But I will tell you this GA is headed with bears into a massive problem if we as hunters do not control the numbers, I hope we get a spring season at some point are we get the chance to have limited numbers of tags for hounds. I spend a lot of time in the woods and can tell you that our deer numbers in the mountain county's are hurting, Im not saying that bears are the sole reason coyotes are sure to blame to some degree, but I know bears were the number one decline in fawn numbers in Pennsylvania.


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## The mtn man (Aug 17, 2015)

There's no doubt that bears along with habitat have a huge impact on deer numbers. Bear hunting with dogs would be great if done correctly, ( not a free for all), there would be some serious blow back from the deer hunting folks though cause if it were legalized, they would lose more fire arms deer season.


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