# 20ga SumToy pattern



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

Well I would post my pattern but it wont even let me attempt to upload the pic. 
1187 20ga SumToy. 562-5 HW7  
163- 10"
135-20"
Anyone care to help?


----------



## blong (Feb 22, 2012)

If you can email thepic, I will post it for you. Here it is!


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

very good pattern


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> very good pattern


How can you see it Superman?


----------



## Covehnter (Feb 22, 2012)

I hope I can get those numbers this weekend!


----------



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

Covehnter said:


> I hope I can get those numbers this weekend!




Good luck to ya! I've been chomping at the bit to shoot, and was able to get off work early with some good weather.

Cove, what is your setup?


----------



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

Blong is working on getting the pic posted. Thanks blong!


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> How can you see it Superman?



You cant see it


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

head buster said:


> Blong is working on getting the pic posted. Thanks blong!


Considering that there exists 326 number 7 Heavyweight shot pellets in the 3" Fed HW 1 1/2 oz. number 7s shotshell, your pattern efficiency in the 10" circle at 40 yards is


(163/326) X 100 = *50%* Pattern Efficiency 10" Circle-40yds


Anything over 45% pattern efficiency in a 10" circle at a measured 40 yards is EXCELLENT for a commercially-loaded shotshell.  Looks like Bill turned you a great-performing turkey choke. 

Any turkEE you clobber with that is D.R.T.!


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> You cant see it


You drinkers from Michigan see all sorts of things.....

some things that exist......and some things that don't.


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> Considering that there exists 326 number 7 Heavyweight shot pellets in the 3" Fed HW 1 1/2 oz. number 7s shotshell, your pattern efficiency in the 10" circle at 40 yards is
> 
> 
> (163/326) X 100 = *50%*​
> ...



But here in lies the question Mr. Snood.. At what point in the 20 does 10 inch efficiency hinder your margin for error.


----------



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> Considering that there exists 326 number 7 Heavyweight shot pellets in the 3" Fed HW 1 1/2 oz. number 7s shotshell, your pattern efficiency in the 10" circle at 40 yards is
> 
> 
> (163/326) X 100 = *50%* Pattern Efficiency 10" Circle-40yds
> ...



Yes he did! I called William after I counted them and he said that was the best he had heard of. I got 134 with a dirty barrel.


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> But here in lies the question Mr. Snood.. At what point in the 20 does 10 inch efficiency hinder your margin for error.



For me, never.    

I try to get even higher efficincies but in a 3" circle.....might have to choke down to .630" or so.


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> For me, never.



Im beginning to think the same I only missed 4 times last year


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> Im beginning to think the same I only missed 4 times last year


Slopsters donut mizz......evuhr.


----------



## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Feb 22, 2012)

Just bought my Sumtoy "Bad Boy" choke for my Mossy Super Bantam 20 and I cant wait!  He's turning it this week and said he would have it to me by next week.


----------



## Mark K (Feb 22, 2012)

I know some of y'all have been waiting on those chokes for awhile now. Are they worth it??


----------



## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Feb 22, 2012)

Ordered today, just got a PM and it was mailed today! Aint no waiting long!  go to oldgobbler.com to the 20 gauge threads and look at the pattern pictures and you will be a believer!


----------



## Mark K (Feb 22, 2012)

Wow. I got a buddy that's been waiting over two weeks now!!


----------



## Kwaksmoka (Feb 22, 2012)

How much are the Sumtoy Chokes?


----------



## treeman101 (Feb 22, 2012)

Go to a local turkeyshoot and you can really see how good the chokes are.


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

Kwaksmoka said:


> How much are the Sumtoy Chokes?


$65 per his website.


----------



## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Feb 22, 2012)

http://www.sumtoycustoms.com/


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

Why is the SumToy choke labeled .562-5 on the target picture?

.562" choke exit diameter but what is the "-5" part mean? 

Does that mean that was the 5th shot taken with that choke?


----------



## WFL (Feb 22, 2012)

Mark K said:


> Wow. I got a buddy that's been waiting over two weeks now!!



WoW  HE knows why.  The problem was fixed.


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> Why is the SumToy choke labeled .562-5 on the target picture?
> 
> .562" choke exit diameter but what is the "-5" part mean?
> 
> Does that mean that was the 5th shot taken with that choke?


 I believe william has two 562 chokes one is designated for H 13 and one for the FCW.. I believe 5 is the FCW and 3??? Is for H 13. 

You know Sloppy different Internal Geometry for different shells


----------



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> Why is the SumToy choke labeled .562-5 on the target picture?
> 
> .562" choke exit diameter but what is the "-5" part mean?
> 
> Does that mean that was the 5th shot taken with that choke?



It's shot specific. He has a .562-3 that is for H-13. You tell him what shell your shooting and he'll make you a choke for that shell.


----------



## head buster (Feb 22, 2012)

blong said:


> If you can email thepic, I will post it for you. Here it is!



This was before I cleaned the barrel. I just sent blong the right pic. 163 was after I cleaned the barrel throughly.


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> You know Sloppy different Internal Geometry for different shells


You really have been hanging out with the Blind Squirrel, haven't you?


----------



## rdnckrbby (Feb 22, 2012)

Shooting an 835 with .670 William turned with hevi-13 7s over 300 in 10inch at 40 yds


----------



## icdedturkes (Feb 22, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> You really have been hanging out with the Blind Squirrel, haven't you?


Well when constriction is the same only Internal Geometry can differentiate two chokes.. William obviously undertands and relies on his knowledge of internal geometry and not just constriction changes, to make a choke for different shells. That is why a certain .643 works in every 12 gauge.. Many consider the choke too tight, but if the internal geometry is correct is over shadows the constriction and makes it work in every gun and every shot shell ..


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 22, 2012)

icdedturkes said:


> Well when constriction is the same only Internal Geometry can differentiate two chokes.. William obviously undertands and relies on his knowledge of internal geometry and not just constriction changes, to make a choke for different shells. That is why a certain .643 works in every 12 gauge.. Many consider the choke too tight, but if the internal geometry is correct is over shadows the constriction and makes it work in every gun and every shot shell ..


----------



## emusmacker (Feb 22, 2012)

My son shoots a remington 870 20 gauge with a sumtoy choke and he puts 139 pellets in a 20 in circle at a taped 40 yrds shooting hevi 13 #6's. 

Also shoots the same choke for ducks and it is DEADLY.


----------



## emusmacker (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes Mark they are worth the wait. Kinda like waiting on a CUSTOm call to be made, it's worth it.


----------



## Gut_Pile (Feb 22, 2012)

Great pattern Jake!


----------



## muddpuppi (Feb 23, 2012)

heres a pattern i got last yr wit my 20 a tss....
351 in the 10 and pretty even.....


----------



## returntoarchery (Feb 23, 2012)

head buster said:


> It's shot specific. He has a .562-3 that is for H-13. You tell him what shell your shooting and he'll make you a choke for that shell.




correct. Here's a post from William on  oldgobbler

http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,17120.0.html

Ok just put this out for some folks.  I see folks shooting all kinds of stuff with the chokes.  A lot ask about them so this should help.

562-5 is for federal fcw.  It will be even pattern with tss and HV-13  not big number.
562-3 is the normal wad choke tss and HV-13  it shoot fcw ok.

Now the nitro may need bigger choke we can build any size you think. It not a set size with the chokes.  Just let me know if you want bigger or smaller.


----------



## Covehnter (Feb 23, 2012)

head buster said:


> Good luck to ya! I've been chomping at the bit to shoot, and was able to get off work early with some good weather.
> 
> Cove, what is your setup?



Winchester youth model 1300, should be receiving the choke today and have 2 boxes of the Feds to try through it.


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 23, 2012)

Covehnter said:


> Winchester youth model 1300, should be receiving the choke today and have 2 boxes of the Feds to try through it.


Don't be surprised if that 1300 shoots better than a high-dollar shtogun....1300's *are* very good shooters if choked correctly.


----------



## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Feb 23, 2012)

Just got my Sumtoy 560-5 (Bad Boy) for my Mossberg 20 gauge Super Bantam and will be shooting Federal HW 3" 1.5oz #7's thru her.  Thanks to William at Sumtoy for helping me out.  I'll post pics here in a few days to let you guys know how I made out!


----------



## chevyman2000 (Feb 23, 2012)

wow alot of nice patterns in this thread!


----------



## Covehnter (Feb 23, 2012)

Sloppy_Snood said:


> Don't be surprised if that 1300 shoots better than a high-dollar shtogun....1300's *are* very good shooters if choked correctly.



I'm hoping so. . . and I aim to get it choked correctly, even if it takes some experimenting and flip flopping.


----------



## MKW (Feb 24, 2012)

*...*



Sloppy_Snood said:


> Don't be surprised if that 1300 shoots better than a high-dollar shtogun....1300's *are* very good shooters if choked correctly.



I have noticed this a couple of times also. Sloppy, why do you think that is?...I mean they use that little bitty Invector choke and have a pretty small bore. 

Mike


----------



## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Feb 24, 2012)

Found this on oldgobbler.com
Federal Heavyweight 20ga 3" 11/2oz #7 $15.99

https://www.shopdunns.com/products/2229/federal_heavyweight_20ga_3_11_2oz_7/

Just ordered 3 boxes.  Hopefully they get in soon so I can try this Sumtoy Choke I just got.


----------



## saltysenior (Feb 24, 2012)

where was your point of aim ???    the pattern is very important , but it should center where you are aiming at ..


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 25, 2012)

MKW said:


> I have noticed this a couple of times also. Sloppy, why do you think that is?...I mean they use that little bitty Invector choke and have a pretty small bore.   Mike


Not sure for certain Mike but my thoughts are that the 1300 barrel is gundrilled better (i.e. slower), run better tolerances on mate-fitting parts, and a well-honed _short_ forcing cone.  

The Invector/Winchoke/Accu-Choke choke system used is appropriate for a .729" bore Winchester 1300.  Take a caliper and measure the inside diameter of the threaded skirt end of a factory Winchoke choke tube.  Next measure the bore of the barrel.  Subtract the barrel i.d. from the rear of the choke i.d. and note the value in thousandths of an inch.

I have no idea what the actual factory specifications are for WinChokes but _in general_, the smaller of a difference in this "step" from bore to the "open" end of a choke tube (screwed into the barrel) the better (I like .005" to .010" difference but absolutely no more than .010").  This arrangement causes less disturbance to the wad during gas blow-by (around the wad skirt) when the wad skirt transitions into the choke tube itself. 

My "at home gunsmith testing" (loose) says this helps keep a good core once the turkey choke e.d. "sweet spot" is identified through testing.  In general, that is around .660" for most turkey chokes with number 6 and 7 tungsten shot types.

Thoughts??


----------



## Sloppy_Snood (Feb 25, 2012)

SpurHuntinHillbilly said:


> Found this on oldgobbler.com
> Federal Heavyweight 20ga 3" 11/2oz #7 $15.99
> 
> https://www.shopdunns.com/products/2229/federal_heavyweight_20ga_3_11_2oz_7/
> ...


Bill at Dunns in Pevely, MO is first rate.  If you have any turkey choke or ammo problems, he is the guy that can help you best IMO.


----------



## MKW (Feb 27, 2012)

*...*

That all makes sense to me. I guess every little thing matters.

Mike


----------

