# Why do we have "other faiths"?



## Artfuldodger (Nov 3, 2012)

Not the forum but why do other religions and beliefs in other God's exist? Do these people not know any better? Is it our fault because we haven't reached them yet? What if we reach them and they still don't choose Christianity. 
Does it have anything to do with where they were born(isolation) and what their parents believe? Why do we believe what our parents believe?
This would be real interesting from predestination believers.
I guess they would say, they aren't part of the Elect. Which makes me wonder about how God views nations and generations of families.

I would like to hear from other faiths or from no faiths.


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## ambush80 (Nov 4, 2012)

It's all made up.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 4, 2012)

What if you were born into a buddist family?


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## drippin' rock (Nov 4, 2012)

How do you know your religion is not the one that is made up?


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## gordon 2 (Nov 6, 2012)

It would be a terrible feeling to have been to Timbucktoo or India or Japan or Atlanta and that the Holy Spirit was there active and ahead of us... and we did not even see it--because of the way we were schooled in our own faith.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 6, 2012)

On the day God freed Israel from Egyptian slavery, the world was already full of people who were building their own god's to worship.  Sacrificing their children to them.


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## GTHunter007 (Nov 6, 2012)

What makes you think your idea and belief is THE ONLY right one?  All you know is it makes you feel better about yourself and what you THINK your future holds.  No different than any other religion on the planet.  If the Bible ended with drinking the Kool-Aid...what cup would you use?


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## centerpin fan (Nov 6, 2012)

GTHunter007 said:


> If the Bible ended with drinking the Kool-Aid...what cup would you use?



This one:


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## gemcgrew (Nov 6, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> This one:



That is awesome!


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 6, 2012)

All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left. I guess they would have been Semitic. So as people moved onward and outward they lost faith in God and created new ones. People today still do this. Maybe this is the roots of those  of the elect and proof the Holy Spirit might be in those lands!

The term Amorites is used in the Bible to refer to certain highland mountaineers who inhabited the land of Canaan, described in Genesis 10:16 as descendants of Canaan, son of Ham. They are described as a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (Amos 2:9) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the Rephaim" (Deut. 3:11). The terms Amorite and Canaanite seem to be used more or less interchangeably, Canaan being more general and Amorite a specific component among the Canaanites who inhabited the land. The Amorites worshiped different gods. 
I just read that their were 76 middle eastern dieties in the early years other than the ones that worship the God of Abraham.


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## hummdaddy (Nov 6, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left. I guess they would have been Semitic. So as people moved onward and outward they lost faith in God and created new ones. People today still do this. Maybe this is the roots of those  of the elect and proof the Holy Spirit might be in those lands!
> 
> The term Amorites is used in the Bible to refer to certain highland mountaineers who inhabited the land of Canaan, described in Genesis 10:16 as descendants of Canaan, son of Ham. They are described as a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (Amos 2:9) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the Rephaim" (Deut. 3:11). The terms Amorite and Canaanite seem to be used more or less interchangeably, Canaan being more general and Amorite a specific component among the Canaanites who inhabited the land. The Amorites worshiped different gods.
> I just read that their were 76 middle eastern dieties in the early years other than the ones that worship the God of Abraham.



all people originated from no religion....it was taught to them...someone came up with it


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## mtnwoman (Nov 7, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left. I guess they would have been Semitic. So as people moved onward and outward they lost faith in God and created new ones. People today still do this. Maybe this is the roots of those  of the elect and proof the Holy Spirit might be in those lands!
> 
> The term Amorites is used in the Bible to refer to certain highland mountaineers who inhabited the land of Canaan, described in Genesis 10:16 as descendants of Canaan, son of Ham. They are described as a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (Amos 2:9) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the Rephaim" (Deut. 3:11). The terms Amorite and Canaanite seem to be used more or less interchangeably, Canaan being more general and Amorite a specific component among the Canaanites who inhabited the land. The Amorites worshiped different gods.
> I just read that their were 76 middle eastern dieties in the early years other than the ones that worship the God of Abraham.



That's exactly why I believe man does have the need/urge to seek God. Whereas the 'no free will' group, believes we don't have it in us to seek a god.  Obviously we do or there would be no idols, etc.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 8, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left. I guess they would have been Semitic. So as people moved onward and outward they lost faith in God and created new ones. People today still do this. Maybe this is the roots of those  of the elect and proof the Holy Spirit might be in those lands!
> 
> The term Amorites is used in the Bible to refer to certain highland mountaineers who inhabited the land of Canaan, described in Genesis 10:16 as descendants of Canaan, son of Ham. They are described as a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (Amos 2:9) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the Rephaim" (Deut. 3:11). The terms Amorite and Canaanite seem to be used more or less interchangeably, Canaan being more general and Amorite a specific component among the Canaanites who inhabited the land. The Amorites worshiped different gods.
> I just read that their were 76 middle eastern dieties in the early years other than the ones that worship the God of Abraham.



People live and die without ever having known of the Christian God.  According to Christians, it doesn't matter how moral or good they were, they are Hades bound.  Contrary to what you believe, there are faiths on this planet outside the Christian realm where people live their lives by their own code never once feeling guilty they didn't know Jesus.

There are world views that don't start with Adam and Eve, and don't include the world being covered in water.  

People did not originate from the same religion.


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## bullethead (Nov 10, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left. I guess they would have been Semitic. So as people moved onward and outward they lost faith in God and created new ones. People today still do this. Maybe this is the roots of those  of the elect and proof the Holy Spirit might be in those lands!
> 
> The term Amorites is used in the Bible to refer to certain highland mountaineers who inhabited the land of Canaan, described in Genesis 10:16 as descendants of Canaan, son of Ham. They are described as a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (Amos 2:9) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the Rephaim" (Deut. 3:11). The terms Amorite and Canaanite seem to be used more or less interchangeably, Canaan being more general and Amorite a specific component among the Canaanites who inhabited the land. The Amorites worshiped different gods.
> I just read that their were 76 middle eastern dieties in the early years other than the ones that worship the God of Abraham.



The answers to the questions you ask are out there but the blinders of "your" faith keep you from seeing them

Comments like:


Ronnie T said:


> On the day God freed Israel from Egyptian slavery, the world was already full of people who were building their own god's to worship.  Sacrificing their children to them.





Artfuldodger said:


> All  people originated from the same religion, how or why did they lose their earlier roots? After the flood, only a few people were left.



Are ONLY found in the Bible. No where else does history concur that the Isrealites were freed from Egypt as told in the Bible(let alone by a God) or that there was a worldwide flood that killed everyone and everything except a few. It just did not happen. (And I find it funny how the OT is used as "fact" when needed, but just as quickly dismissed by the same people who say the laws in it are superseded by the NT when the flaws are pointed out). 

As soon as you take a step back and look at religion from an outside perspective you will be able to see that all are equally man-made. Any deity powerful enough to be capable of half of the things credited to it would do a better job of making sure it's handbook was clear, concise, and 100% error free with facts to back it up. 

We have other faiths because no single religion can or ever will be able to be penned by man and accepted by mankind. If there was ONE God and ONE religion every single being on the planet would "know" it. Instead, everyone makes up their own version of what makes them happy and follows it. There are over 10,000 different denomination within Christianity. All with slightly different beliefs and each one claiming they are right and the others don't get it.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 11, 2012)

bullethead said:


> As soon as you take a step back and look at religion from an outside perspective you will be able to see that all are equally man-made. Any deity powerful enough to be capable of half of the things credited to it would do a better job of making sure it's handbook was clear, concise, and 100% error free with facts to back it up.



Christianity is a faith based religion.


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## bullethead (Nov 12, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Christianity is a faith based religion.



As are most religions.


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## mtnwoman (Nov 12, 2012)

I agree with a lot of what is said here. I guess you get what you believe in. I don't want to be a muslim because I don't want '99' virgins as my reward. I don't know what the women get, stoned probably or beheaded.

I don't want to be hindu or buddhist because I don't want to come back as aunt ann the rat or cow that can't be killed because it's a past relative and it's holy....holy cow!

I personally just like what Christianity has to offer....see Jesus, see all your family that went before you, being joyful and happy. That's just what I chose....I like that religion the best.

If I'm wrong I guess I won't get the 99 virgins and come back as a cow, standing in the shadow of a starving baby, that I wish I could feed.....eat the cow, eat the cow.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 19, 2012)

A couple of thoughts. Humans have always displayed the need for a higher power. Every society, isoloated or not, has some system of beliefs about creation and the afterlife.

Secondly, what sets Christianity apart? It is rather simple. No other religion has had an earthly representative that claimed to be God. They crucified him for it.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 19, 2012)

bullethead said:


> The answers to the questions you ask are out there but the blinders of "your" faith keep you from seeing them
> 
> Comments like:
> 
> ...



BH, you are approaching this from the point of view that YOU think should be true. It isn't how YOU think it should be, so it must be false.


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## bullethead (Nov 19, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> BH, you are approaching this from the point of view that YOU think should be true. It isn't how YOU think it should be, so it must be false.



I am in good company with all the religious.


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## JFS (Nov 20, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> No other religion has had an earthly representative that claimed to be God.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_been_considered_deities


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## JFS (Nov 20, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> A couple of thoughts. Humans have always displayed the need for a higher power. Every society, isoloated or not, has some system of beliefs about creation and the afterlife.



I'm pretty sure the common denominator is that in every society people die.  Not surprising that everyone takes a WAG.  Why not, it's not like anyone can prove you wrong.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 20, 2012)

JFS said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_been_considered_deities



JFS, Thanks for the post, I was enlightened by the number of people that have claimed deity, or have been unwillingly deified posthumously or while alive. Some even renounced the status. It was an interesting Wiki post, and I have no doubt all these accounts are factually reported. What about David Koresh? Why was he not included?

In all of these accounts, by their own account, does anyone of these people come back from the dead? I realize this is a biblical story and not very provable, but do any of them claim a dominion over death? Jesus did.


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## bullethead (Nov 20, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> JFS, Thanks for the post, I was enlightened by the number of people that have claimed deity, or have been unwillingly deified posthumously or while alive. Some even renounced the status. It was an interesting Wiki post, and I have no doubt all these accounts are factually reported. What about David Koresh? Why was he not included?
> 
> In all of these accounts, by their own account, does anyone of these people come back from the dead? I realize this is a biblical story and not very provable, but do any of them claim a dominion over death? Jesus did.



Stories by anonymous authors about somebody named Jesus claimed that he had a dominion over death. Jesus never had written about his own account with death, never personally documented coming back from being dead or as far as we know has never written one single thing about anything.


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## JFS (Nov 21, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> What about David Koresh? Why was he not included?



Not sure, but my recollection of him is as claiming to be a special prophet as opposed to an actual divinity.  But who knows, I'm sure the lines get blurred around a lot of these guys.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 21, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Stories by anonymous authors about somebody named Jesus claimed that he had a dominion over death. Jesus never had written about his own account with death, never personally documented coming back from being dead or as far as we know has never written one single thing about anything.



Yes, I agree.


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## yaknfish (Dec 1, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel


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## Corvus (Dec 1, 2012)

I was brought up Christian and thanks to other christians, I found another faith that made sense to me. Christianity can't be the only right religion because it isn't right for a lot of people.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 7, 2012)

All religions can be wrong, but logic dictates that no two can be opposite and true at the same time.


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## SarahFair (Dec 7, 2012)

Not one religion has it 100%. I like to think each one holds a small piece of the puzzle.


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## RossVegas (Dec 7, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> all people originated from no religion....it was taught to them...someone came up with it



Yes, someone did. My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 7, 2012)

Corvus said:


> I was brought up Christian and thanks to other christians, I found another faith that made sense to me. Christianity can't be the only right religion because it isn't right for a lot of people.



I would find it interesting as to what your new faith is.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 7, 2012)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> All religions can be wrong, but logic dictates that no two can be opposite and true at the same time.



So you don't think someone can combine Native American religion and Christianity together?
What about Gullah and Christianity?
Homeopathy and Christianity? (although homeopathy isn't a religion)
Astrology and Christianity?
Vodoo?
 Q: Do you know if your daughter has ever been involved in voodoo or the occult?
A: We both do.
Q: Voodoo?
A: We do.
Q: You do?
A: Yes, voodoo.


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## schweisshund (Dec 14, 2012)

Something I found out not too long ago, that I thought was interesting, was that the Mormons believe that the ancient Mayan story of Quezacotl was actually the story of Jesus Christ (in their own words). Now, I am not saying it is, I am just putting it out there. 

If anyone is familiar with the story of Operation Auca ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Auca ) they would recall that the Huaorani people already had an understanding of "God" and the story of creation. Just in their own dialect and understanding of the terms. The most remote people on earth, having no contact with outsiders, understood the basic tenets of what we call "Christianity". 

The Huaorani that murdered those 5 missionaries, understood that what they did was rebellious and evil. Really? How is it they would understand without ever having been "indoctrinated" by the outside world? 

Something "imaginary and made up" must have been the motivating factor behind them having a conscious and an understanding of what is right and what is wrong. 

Where does that come from?


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## schweisshund (Dec 14, 2012)

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

I have been studying this guy for a couple of years. Many atheists, polytheists, claim that religion, as we know it today, originated with him. One claim is that the Christian term "free will" was "invented" by him. 

Nietzsche had a lot to say about him too. http://home.vicnet.net.au/~atheist/Zoroasta.htm




> Nietzsche blamed the Jews and their offshoot, the Christians for creating a religion based on, what he called, 'slave morality'.



And we all know what that led to ... the rabid anti-semitism of Hitler's Third Reich (Nietzsche inspired Hitler). Not a lot of people realize that it wasn't only Hitler's goal to rid Europe of the Jews .. he also wanted to rid Europe of religion (according to his personal secretary Traudl Junge). Hitler used Christianity to promote anti-semitism by completely changing the identity of Christ. 

http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Aryan_Jesus.html?id=fiCJeNJIhoAC


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## Zelix (Dec 27, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I agree with a lot of what is said here. I guess you get what you believe in. I don't want to be a muslim because I don't want '99' virgins as my reward. I don't know what the women get, stoned probably or beheaded.
> 
> I don't want to be hindu or buddhist because I don't want to come back as aunt ann the rat or cow that can't be killed because it's a past relative and it's holy....holy cow!
> 
> ...



This made me chuckle as it was simmering with self righteousness and disdain for other religions. You should check out some of the greats hits in the bible. It's got a few good ones in it as well.

Many of the thumpers chirp about other religions but I bet in these days they couldn't pass the test...look here:

A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed" Deuteronomy 22:13-21

The bible is as full of the woman bashing stuff as the koran is with the 99 virgin deal.

At least the buddhist don't roll out and kill "in the name of God or Allah"


With that said I'm a Christian married to a Buddhist. Her family is more decent and righteous than most Christians I know. It just happens that they weren't born in this country. If God sends them to h3ll over some of the chumps I know here then something is really wrong with this picture.

Just saying. Have a blessed day.


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## hunter rich (Dec 28, 2012)

schweisshund said:


> Something I found out not too long ago, that I thought was interesting, was that the Mormons believe that the ancient Mayan story of Quezacotl was actually the story of Jesus Christ (in their own words). Now, I am not saying it is, I am just putting it out there.
> 
> If anyone is familiar with the story of Operation Auca ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Auca ) they would recall that the Huaorani people already had an understanding of "God" and the story of creation. Just in their own dialect and understanding of the terms. The most remote people on earth, having no contact with outsiders, understood the basic tenets of what we call "Christianity".
> 
> ...



Kind of like alien/ufo/squatch sightings and descriptions...


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## centerpin fan (Dec 28, 2012)

Zelix said:


> This made me chuckle as it was simmering with self righteousness and disdain for other religions. You should check out some of the greats hits in the bible. It's got a few good ones in it as well.
> 
> Many of the thumpers chirp about other religions but I bet in these days they couldn't pass the test...look here:
> 
> ...



It's refreshing to see that you have neither.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 28, 2012)

Zelix said:


> This made me chuckle as it was simmering with self righteousness and disdain for other religions. You should check out some of the greats hits in the bible. It's got a few good ones in it as well.
> 
> Many of the thumpers chirp about other religions but I bet in these days they couldn't pass the test...look here:
> 
> ...



I'm an easy going guy and can see your point. What are the views of women in early Buddhism? I've read women have to be reincarnated as a man to gain salvation. I'm sure their beliefs are as varied as Christians.If you have any children, do you teach them both religions? Do ya'll go to each others service?


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## panfried0419 (Dec 28, 2012)

This why I began attending a non denominational church. I grew up Baptist Methodist and Presbyterian and all 3 contradicted each other.


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## gemcgrew (Dec 28, 2012)

panfried0419 said:


> This why I began attending a non denominational church. I grew up Baptist Methodist and Presbyterian and all 3 contradicted each other.


Does your non denominational church contradict the Baptist, Methodist or Presbyterian?


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## panfried0419 (Dec 28, 2012)

Lets re-read together sir. Non-denominational. Me and my family have found a church that's not heck fire and brimstone, no w2 checking, and teach the bible not self help crud.


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## gemcgrew (Dec 28, 2012)

panfried0419 said:


> Lets re-read together sir. Non-denominational.


I understood you the first time. I just found it interestingly silly. 



panfried0419 said:


> Me and my family have found a church that's not heck fire and brimstone, no w2 checking, and teach the bible not self help crud.


I gathered that from the earlier post.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 28, 2012)

For some reason I was reminded of this joke:
Drought Affects Churches
Severe drought affects churches in northern Alabama,
Tennessee, and northwest Georgia.

Did you know that because of the drought in these areas,
church budgets are greatly affected?

Baptist churches are having to sprinkle for baptisms; the
Methodists are using wet wipes for their baptisms; and the
Catholics are praying that God will turn the wine back into
water.


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## panfried0419 (Dec 29, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> For some reason I was reminded of this joke:
> Drought Affects Churches
> Severe drought affects churches in northern Alabama,
> Tennessee, and northwest Georgia.
> ...


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## shane256 (Jan 15, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> People live and die without ever having known of the Christian God.  According to Christians, it doesn't matter how moral or good they were, they are Hades bound.



Not necessarily. Romans 2 indicates that someone who has never heard the Gospel can still go to a good place (perhaps not Heaven itself, but a good place and certainly not Hades) based on their actions... if they're a good person who, even unknowingly, acts as a Christian should. However, if one has heard the Gospel and doesn't accept Jesus, then they'll go to Hades because they are rejecting Jesus.

Of course, this gives rise to the question: If that's the case, why didn't the people who found the manuscripts burn them all so that all good people could go to heaven without having to wear funny hats or clothes or practicing strange rituals. Never hearing the Gospels means you can do well just by being a good person. Once you hear the Gospels, you have to make a choice since just being a good person doesn't grant you passage to even 'a good place that might not be as good as Heaven'.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 15, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Not necessarily. Romans 2 indicates that someone who has never heard the Gospel can still go to a good place (perhaps not Heaven itself, but a good place and certainly not Hades) based on their actions... if they're a good person who, even unknowingly, acts as a Christian should. However, if one has heard the Gospel and doesn't accept Jesus, then they'll go to Hades because they are rejecting Jesus.
> 
> Of course, this gives rise to the question: If that's the case, why didn't the people who found the manuscripts burn them all so that all good people could go to heaven without having to wear funny hats or clothes or practicing strange rituals. Never hearing the Gospels means you can do well just by being a good person. Once you hear the Gospels, you have to make a choice since just being a good person doesn't grant you passage to even 'a good place that might not be as good as Heaven'.



... but Rom. 3:23 says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  If all have sinned, all need a Savior.


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## David Parker (Jan 15, 2013)

Other faiths exist, true statement.  For what reason?  I'm not qualified to answer.  My faith is exclusive to me and by that I mean that I don't share or try to explain it.  Faith is a word that people use synonymously with "belief in God", but it is also applied to a belief in doctrines and teachings.  That's about as clarified as I can be.  

So answering a question w/ a question here.   Because I have faith, would I be considered religious?  I don't consider myself religious, but I am as honest and moral as most and more-so than some.  My belief or not in God is not part of this equation though, just that I have a belief in some principle.  Is that a religion?


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## shane256 (Jan 15, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> ... but Rom. 3:23 says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  If all have sinned, all need a Savior.



Some say there are no contradictions in the Bible. So which is it, then?


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## centerpin fan (Jan 15, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Some say there are no contradictions in the Bible. So which is it, then?



There's no contradiction here.  Even in the passage you cite, it says, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law ... " (Rom 2:12.)  Compare that with Rom 3:23 -- "ALL have sinned."  Some have sinned under the law and others have sinned apart from it.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 15, 2013)

Jeremy Wade said:


> My belief or not in God is not part of this equation though, just that I have a belief in some principle.  Is that a religion?



I don't think it technically fits the definition of a religion.  Sounds more like a personal philosophy to me.

Whatever floats your boat.


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## David Parker (Jan 16, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> I don't think it technically fits the definition of a religion.  Sounds more like a personal philosophy to me.
> 
> Whatever floats your boat.



My boat displaces an amount of water of equal mass, and the water exerts a bouyancy onto my boat equal to the mass of the water displaced.

philosophically that is.


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## shane256 (Jan 16, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> There's no contradiction here.  Even in the passage you cite, it says, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law ... " (Rom 2:12.)  Compare that with Rom 3:23 -- "ALL have sinned."  Some have sinned under the law and others have sinned apart from it.



That's a pretty small part of the other scripture.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> That's a pretty small part of the other scripture.



The reality of sin and the need for repentance runs through the entire Bible.


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## shane256 (Jan 16, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> The reality of sin and the need for repentance runs through the entire Bible.



Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.



Just curious as I've never read the verses about people not hearing the Gospel going to a better place but not Heaven. I have read verses about Christians that go on sinning being worse than to have never become a Christian.

2 Peter 2:20-22  
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


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## David Parker (Jan 16, 2013)

conversely.  If one person lives a far more virtuous life than a Christian, but doesn't declare a faith, are they doomed?  Fair question


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## shane256 (Jan 16, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> Just curious as I've never read the verses about people not hearing the Gospel going to a better place but not Heaven. I have read verses about Christians that go on sinning being worse than to have never become a Christian.



Very quick search (I haven't read this article before, but the first paragraph or so seems like it is addressing it): http://carm.org/what-happens-those-who-have-never-heard-gospel


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## centerpin fan (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.



You're reading way too much into whatever verse you're referring to.


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## shane256 (Jan 16, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> You're reading way too much into whatever verse you're referring to.



Not really.  I had the discussion with my grandmother once... she's the one that clued me into it to start with. She firmly believed that those who had never heard the Gospel before went to "a good place, but not Heaven". This was when I asked her what happened to all the people like deep in the rain forests who never had even seen a missionary... did they just go to Hades... didn't seem very fair... their only "crime" was to be born to parents in a remote part of the world. She was Southern Baptist, btw.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Not really.  I had the discussion with my grandmother once... she's the one that clued me into it to start with. She firmly believed that those who had never heard the Gospel before went to "a good place, but not Heaven". This was when I asked her what happened to all the people like deep in the rain forests who never had even seen a missionary... did they just go to Hades... didn't seem very fair... their only "crime" was to be born to parents in a remote part of the world. She was Southern Baptist, btw.



Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.


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## shane256 (Jan 16, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.



I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.



Whatever floats your boat.  For this forum, that's sufficient.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2013)

shane256 said:


> I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.



I've heard that opinion before too. I've also heard that God has already delivered his message to the ones around the world that he wants to save. This was from someone of the Elect persuasion.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2013)

Here is the United Church of God's belief. They believe all those people who never heard of God will get there Salvation or chance at Salvation at the second resurrection.
From their site;
God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4)
 But considering the masses of humanity who have never even heard the name of Christ, many Christians have wondered if or how they would have a chance for salvation. We believe the Bible teaches that all will have a real chance through the often neglected doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" and God's judgment (Hebrews 6:2)

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/will-e...happens-after-death-resurrection-judgment-day


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## TripleXBullies (Jan 17, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.



How do you know which ones you take at face value and which ones require being read in to further?


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## centerpin fan (Jan 17, 2013)

TripleXBullies said:


> How do you know which ones you take at face value and which ones require being read in to further?



You have to look at the context, both the immediate context and the context of the entire body of scripture.  In addition, you should consider what the church has always taught about the passage.


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## shane256 (Jan 17, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> You have to look at the context, both the immediate context and the context of the entire body of scripture.  In addition, you should consider what the church has always taught about the passage.



Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...


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## centerpin fan (Jan 17, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...



There are many denominations because people tend to ignore two things.  

This:

 "... no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

... and this:



centerpin fan said:


> ... what the church has always taught about the passage.


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## shane256 (Jan 21, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> "... no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20



Then it all must be taken literally and then there are all kinds of... things... that must be taken into account. For example, how did two of every species of animal fit onto the ark along with their food, etc? It'd have to be like the Tardis.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 21, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Then it all must be taken literally and then there are all kinds of... things... that must be taken into account.



I disagree, but this is not the best forum for that discussion.  Start a new thread in the AAA forum if you like.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2013)

shane256 said:


> Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...



But the interpretation of each denomination isn't what salvation is about. There's only one thing that is required of us, that we believe John 3:16. ALL Christians will agree on that verse. We don't have to interpret anything else correctly, that is not a requirement for salvation.  Scriptures tells us that we will not all agree on the entire bible, because that's not what saves us. It's basically John 3:16 that will save us. 

I may be convicted on certain things that Centerpin may not be convicted of, that will not hinder either of our salvation, because we disagree on some things. I'd say at least 90% of the Bible isn't agreed upon....it's knowing who Jesus is and what He did on the cross and our repentence that saves us.


My ex thinks he's a pretty good guy....he shares his 'highs' with other people...shares his beer, shares his pot, will give someone the shirt off his back, will give someone a place to live, let someone drive his car, feed someone, give people money....yeah he's a nice, pretty good guy, but he has no relationship with Christ, so Christ will tell him, I do not know you, because my ex doesn't believe that Christ is who he says He is. It's not by works that we are saved, it's by faith in Christ that saves us. It depends on if you want to know Christ or not as to whether you want to end up with the gift of Christ or go somewhere else...wherever that may be.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've heard that opinion before too. I've also heard that God has already delivered his message to the ones around the world that he wants to save. This was from someone of the Elect persuasion.



Yeah, well.....I don't feel like I'm wasting my time, do you? Preach the gospel so that ALL may be saved...

Preach on my bro!!


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