# Owner build



## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

Anyone here have experience acting as their own general contractor to build a house? Getting married soon and we are thinking of going that route to build a house. Any words of advice?


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## lagrangedave (Sep 2, 2017)

I built mine. It went pretty smooth but I knew all the inspectors before I started. Don't pay any subs by the hour. Get a quote from them and make sure it is specific about what they will or will not do for that price. I thought that I was building a piano and built it extremely tight. It creaks when the sun warms it and the lumber expands. Whatever you figure your cost will be add a third, you will need it.


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 2, 2017)

get a good divorce lawyer lined up.




just kidding.   I've done it several times and it will put a strain on any relationship.   Have a really good set of plans and a budget.   Unexpected expenses and women can go crazy with lighting and fixtures for the bath--thousands over what you budgeted for.

I have also remodeled three while living in them.   

Do you have connections for subs or are you just going to try to find them as you go?


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## BeerThirty (Sep 2, 2017)

Not me personally, but good friends of ours just did.  They sure saved a lot of money and were able to customize their home they way they wanted, but the headaches they experienced were three-fold.  Managing timelines and expectations were their many problem.

And to Gobble's point above regarding a lawyer, you many not need one up front, but make sure you get EVERYTHING in writing.  Our friends had to take both their cabinet subcontractor and the fireplace subcontractor to court.  They won both disputes due to having proper documentation and pictures.  As well, definitely expect you and your new bride to butt heads.  Good Luck!


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

lagrangedave said:


> I built mine. It went pretty smooth but I knew all the inspectors before I started. Don't pay any subs by the hour. Get a quote from them and make sure it is specific about what they will or will not do for that price. I thought that I was building a piano and built it extremely tight. It creaks when the sun warms it and the lumber expands. Whatever you figure your cost will be add a third, you will need it.



How long ago did you build and about what did it cost per square foot? Any lessons learned or things you would do different? I'm not too far away from you in Harris county. Might be looking for subs out of Lagrange or Columbus.


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

gobbleinwoods said:


> get a good divorce lawyer lined up.



 Careful! She's reading this! 






gobbleinwoods said:


> just kidding.   I've done it several times and it will put a strain on any relationship.   Have a really good set of plans and a budget.   Unexpected expenses and women can go crazy with lighting and fixtures for the bath--thousands over what you budgeted for.
> 
> I have also remodeled three while living in them.
> 
> Do you have connections for subs or are you just going to try to find them as you go?



We've been looking at plans. Looking at a farmhouse style 3/2 in the 1800 sq foot range on an unfinished walkout basement with wraparound porch. I *think* we should budget $100 sq/ft but hoping we can get it done for closer to $80 sq/ft.

I already have a local guy lined up that can do the septic and I bought the land from a retired cabinet maker so we will be able to get those done at a savings. Other than that we will have to shop around for contractors.


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## lagrangedave (Sep 2, 2017)

15 years ago. Harris County inspectors should be easy to deal with $38 per square foot. That's pretty cheap. I have never calculated that until now. My cousin did electrical and hvac, my neighbor plumbed it and I did the rest.


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## lagrangedave (Sep 2, 2017)

We poured the slab and the driveway all in the same day.


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 2, 2017)

Last I did you 7 years ago and did not spare expense as it will be the last I hope and it ran about 100/sf.

I subbed it all out on this one.


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## GAGE (Sep 2, 2017)

We are in the closer to end than beginning stages of a garage project, that has been a nightmare.  Some how it will be only subcontractors for me from here on out.


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## notnksnemor (Sep 2, 2017)

As others have said:
Finalize a design.
Makes sure what you and your bride want before you break ground.
Negotiated prices are for what you submit.
Change orders are a god send to contractors. They will eat you alive on them if they under bid to get the job.
Written contracts are you friend.
You handle the payments.
On a large build, contractors will come to you to wanting draws for their expenses.
Have it in writing what draws can be taken for what % of  work completion. don't let the payments get ahead of the work that's been completed.
Put completion time lines in the contract. If a contractor takes on another job that is more profitable, you will sit idle if you don't have it in writing.
There is more, others will probably fill in.
Protect yourself, nobody else will.
Make sure your building plans are detailed, i.e. steps/stairs, stipulate risers or you'll get a 2X12 on 2X2's on each side.


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## Grub Master (Sep 2, 2017)

If you aren't paying cash, get a construction and mortgage lined up.
Talk with your insurance agent to make sure you have the proper insurance.
Don't let any subs get ahead of their draw schedule and make sure they have workmanship comp insurance.
Get all releases signed so no one claims you didn't pay for materials or labor.
Don't try to save a few pennies thinking you can get around the inspector.  Work with him and he will be an asset. 
Don't build the house like you will live there forever.  Keep in mind you will probably sell it one day.
You can get good plans cheap online.
If you can, find a builder that will charge you a fee to look over your shoulder.
My wife took 5 hours at Home Depot Expo picking out cabinet hardware for a mountain cabin.  Get the wife on board early, have a plan and stick to it.
Realize you won't have a free weekend for the next year.
Good luck.


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## notnksnemor (Sep 2, 2017)

Grub Master said:


> Get all releases signed so no one claims you didn't pay for materials or labor.



This is a big one.
One sub filing a lien on the property will really mess up your happy homecoming.


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## blood on the ground (Sep 2, 2017)

I've built one and remodeled one and I can tell you now I'd much rather build than go back over someone else's work... Be ready for stress on top of stress because when mother nature wants to mess your plans up she will! Not to mention the hired hands that like their random days off during the week.


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

How are contracted time lines typically enforced?


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## lagrangedave (Sep 2, 2017)

In  court...............


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## notnksnemor (Sep 2, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> How are contracted time lines typically enforced?





lagrangedave said:


> In  court...............



Yes,
They are primarily a deterrent, but they are effective.
On commercial projects they're "milestones" but the same concept applies to residential.


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## Grub Master (Sep 2, 2017)

Subs are constantly juggling several jobs and anything that goes wrong with one of the others will affect yours.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 2, 2017)

Wrap around porches are great, but expensive. Compared to a bedroom with carpet and  sheetrock, the porch flooring, rails, ceiling, and beam being out of maintenance free materials, you can see why. The biggest advice I can offer, don't get carried away with cool stuff. Go "functional" all the way. There is so much out there that will tempt you. Wifi refrigerators, barn door sliding doors, etc. It's a home, not a show piece. Bathrooms with granite, extensive tile work with inlays, it's all just hard to keep clean. If you are getting a construction loan.... you have to move quickly. The interest incurred is gone, and does not increase value. If you think, I'll paint my own house and save some money, consider that you will spend $ on supplies and if you get burnt out and take 2 months to complete then that interest may have been enough to cover the cost of a painter. Subs... Most are busy and you will be considered a one time job. Your job is at the bottom of the totem pole of their schedule. They will not put you above the contractors that offer repeat business. If you approach them with demands especially a time line, they will drop you like a hot potato. Unless they have no business which is a sure sign that they are no good. You should require them to present a certificate of insurance of workers comp and liability. This is standard and expected in the construction industry. No one starts the job without it and I would not consider a sub in my timeline if he could not present it ahead of time. You don't want to find out he does not have it after waiting on him. In my area, one used to be able to build themselves. No longer does a lending bank give money to anyone unlicensed in my area. It's all about liability. They don't allow any liability to fall on them knowing that it all falls on the licensed contractor. Without a contractor, they can be sued for an on the job accident. Upon final payment, get a receipt as paid or find a lien waiver online. This will protect you from liens being filed against you. most times these are not bogus and stem from a homeowner not paying his bills. Not paying bills is not the way to dispute quality control issues. Pay in full. No warranty if you don't pay up. Selections can be stressful. Paint, faucets, lighting, carpet, flooring, brick, etc. So much to pick out.  A head start goes a long way. Very few subs require draws. No professional sub needs a deposit other than cabinets. Your framing could be the longest of the task. Some require a draw. Privately, we could help you establish a budget. First time builders overlook so much. then get upset when it shows up. If your getting a loan, the bank will appraise your plans as to it's value once completed. The wish to see whether their loan to value ratios are where they can make a profit in the event they have to foreclose. They don't look at landscaping, etc. Mostly sq footage, high end or low end, and location based on comps of sales on comparable house in you area. I'm not sure you can save "a lot" of money???? It may not be worth the savings. It will be stressful. If you had a contact, a contractor who was willing to recommend subs, subs that he has weeded through. I don't mind recommending subs in my area however my list of subs came by trial and error. Some heart ache from of years of business, therefore I would not give them out to another contractor allowing my experience to be free to him which cost me much. Sub responsibilities, when and what, is their scope of work can be a problem. Subs tend to pass the buck. A first time builder could wonder what belongs to whom. Permits, every county is different where I am from. Some easy initially, harder as you go, some require extensive paperwork, micro managing everything, as if they are concerned over your potential power bills. If you had some experience, I'd say go for it. If you had a friend whom was willing to help you, answer questions, go for it. Otherwise, find a plan, create a spec sheet and let some local builders bid it. Go to your local lumber supply house and ask them for builders, of the style/size house you are considering. Even if you had to pay 1K to get liability free advice/sub contacts from a  builder, it could be very valuable. As far as budgeting, I will refrain from line item cost expectations, but things such as, for example,  cultured marble, bathroom sink tops, things like this, just ask, and I'll be glad to tell you what you could expect to pay. Picking out plans, trying to determine what a particular plan might cost to build. You were right, about $100 per sqft of total footage, thats garage, porches, etc. This sounds weird, a garage much cheaper than a kitchen however no kitchen can be built for $100. It's much much higher. It's just an average. If someone says, I use heated footage only then request a 5 car garage. Good luck.


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## skiff23 (Sep 2, 2017)

Around here , unless you have cash, banks will make you have a licensed builder. Do it your selfers historically can not get out for less than a good builder can. And the bank wants some one to hold accountable.


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

lagrangedave said:


> In  court...............



What I meant was is there typically some consequence in the contract if they fail to meet the time line?


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

We would not be getting a loan until after the build to take out a little equity.

1gr8bldr, thanks for that reply. Going to send you a pm later.


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## Lilly001 (Sep 2, 2017)

I am building a cabin as I can pay for it. It's going on 2 years. My problem, as stated above, is that I am a one time job for most of my subs. Getting them to schedule me in, and then have them show up, is getting old.
But it does give me time to get a lot done on my own while I wait.


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## atlashunter (Sep 2, 2017)

Any thoughts on 2x4 vs 2x6 framing? Is it worth the extra cost?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 3, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Anyone here have experience acting as their own general contractor to build a house? Getting married soon and we are thinking of going that route to build a house. Any words of advice?



If you have good organizational skills, project management experience, contract experience and a good skill set in communications with sub-contractors, and finally an firm understanding that you are a one and done job, whereas they may have other buildings in their lineup that are multi-job employers year in and year out.............you should do just fine. 

I see too many folks think they are smart enough to tackle this job, especially folks from the corporate world who think they can talk down to and strong arm a sub-contractor. It usually doesn't go well for them.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 3, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Any thoughts on 2x4 vs 2x6 framing? Is it worth the extra cost?



2x6 framing on exterior walls is the way to go, if you can afford the insulation to fill it. I've been in one house framed that way and it was one of the quietest most energy efficient homes I've ever been in. I suppose calculating the cost to build vs the return on heating & cooling would be something you would have to work out prior to doing it to justify whether it was worth the added expense or not.


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## notnksnemor (Sep 3, 2017)

Miguel's a builder, I'm a Project Manager.
You've gotten good information from both angles.


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## tree cutter 08 (Sep 3, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> 2x6 framing on exterior walls is the way to go, if you can afford the insulation to fill it. I've been in one house framed that way and it was one of the quietest most energy efficient homes I've ever been in. I suppose calculating the cost to build vs the return on heating & cooling would be something you would have to work out prior to doing it to justify whether it was worth the added expense or not.



Yes! Our first house was 2x4. I built our second home with 2x6 walls and spray foam insulation. Its 2400 sqft, 10 ft ceilings on first floor and has open to below and high ceilings that follow the roofline up stairs. Some places are 24ft ceilings. We put led lights in most everything and our highest power bill was $110 this summer and that was with wife and kids home all summer. Cant hear anything outside as its super quiet. Buy the best windows and doors you can afford also. So the extra cost for spray foam, 2x6 walls and better doors and windows won't take to long to pay for.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

Hmmm. 2x6 walls.... If you study heat loss and heat gain in a home, the walls are a small percent of the ceiling. Without super high efficiency doors and windows, then 2x6 walls as well as foam are not much good. It's like building a walk in cooler, 20 inches thick with a 1/2 thick door. Foam 2x6 walls????. . It's simply waaaay beyond  reason. Everyone has opinions as to better, and of course it's better, but will it be realized? No, not since windows are the weak link.  Those that have foam in the walls also have foam in the ceiling. This is why their energy bill is low. 2x4 foam walls, reasonable with good windows.   Use that money  from 2x6 walls  to go tankless water heater and a high seer hvac unit.


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## tcward (Sep 3, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Any thoughts on 2x4 vs 2x6 framing? Is it worth the extra cost?



I went with 2x6 on exterior walls (for extra insulation value) and 2x4 interior. As far as self contracting, make sure if you have time for everything i.e meeting contractors at the spur of the moment, trying to reschedule something because something else is not done, etc. Weather can be a major headache too!


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> How are contracted time lines typically enforced?


No one will give you a contracted time. Subs look ahead and somewhat put you in line at the expected date that you will be ready. More often than not, they get held up from the sub before who got held up, etc. It work both ways. If your not ready, then it messes up their schedule. Rain, delayed materials, delayed selections, so much can go wrong. However, subs on a smaller scale, 3 to 5 day task who juggle many jobs at one time, they often leave to work on several jobs at one time. Your only  means of keeping them on your site is that you not pay until completed. However, they sometimes will leave for this very reason, because Bill pays cash the very day they finish. If your not dealing with interest from a construction loan, then I would say, go for it, but don't get in a hurry, expect to wait between subs, promise the subs full payment upon completion. This will be to your advantage because most subs working for builders are waiting 20+ days for payment. This will get you results and make your disadvantage of being a 1 time gig, and advantage by causing them to go for the quick money


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

You might find the York SC requirements interesting. Not sure who all, counties and states, which requires this????. It's a means of determining potential run away energy cost. You can figure your house to see how it scores. If it fails, it does not pass and York will make you redraw, remove windows, etc. It's called "RESCheck". Just google.  Any other locations requiring this, I would like to know?


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 3, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> You might find the York SC requirements interesting. Not sure who all, counties and states, which requires this????. It's a means of determining potential run away energy cost. You can figure your house to see how it scores. If it fails, it does not pass and York will make you redraw, remove windows, etc. It's called "RESCheck". Just google.  Any other locations requiring this, I would like to know?



When I was building in FL it is required statewide.   It was so bad the r-value of paint was included.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

gobbleinwoods said:


> When I was building in FL it is required statewide.   It was so bad the r-value of paint was included.


If I recall, it's all insignificant assuming insulation installed to code. It's basically all about the windows. To much glass per room cancels out the efficiency of the R values combined. The R value of an average window is like 2.0 to 3.5


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

Be advised that subs reserve the right to liens through different means. The states try to control bogus liens, such as someone whom never even did work, claiming they did so. NC requires I get a "lien agent" governed by the state. SC required that I go to the court house before beginning work and file for my right to file a lien on a particular permit. Gone are the days of filing a lien at the end if you don't get paid. Unless you planned ahead. The state tried to protect the homeowners but in doing so, threw the subs under the bus. However, larger company's, including your closing lawyer will have done so. Rednecks like myself go moffia style.


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## notnksnemor (Sep 3, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> No one will give you a contracted time. Subs look ahead and somewhat put you in line at the expected date that you will be ready. More often than not, they get held up from the sub before who got held up, etc. It work both ways. If your not ready, then it messes up their schedule. Rain, delayed materials, delayed selections, so much can go wrong. However, subs on a smaller scale, 3 to 5 day task who juggle many jobs at one time, they often leave to work on several jobs at one time. Your only  means of keeping them on your site is that you not pay until completed. However, they sometimes will leave for this very reason, because Bill pays cash the very day they finish. If your not dealing with interest from a construction loan, then I would say, go for it, but don't get in a hurry, expect to wait between subs, promise the subs full payment upon completion. This will be to your advantage because most subs working for builders are waiting 20+ days for payment. This will get you results and make your disadvantage of being a 1 time gig, and advantage by causing them to go for the quick money



You can get an "expected completion date" in the contract. It should be written that delays can and often do happen. If he will be contracting each sub independently, each are subject to the terms of their contract. 
Weather, unforeseen material shortages,etc., can all be written in to protect the sub. 
Each sub is held accountable for his part. If he holds up another portion of the build, he is accountable.
That being said, the biggest fight you will have on a residential build will be between plumbers and hvac as they are fighting for the same space.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 3, 2017)

NOTNKSNEMOR said:


> You can get an "expected completion date" in the contract. It should be written that delays can and often do happen. If he will be contracting each sub independently, each are subject to the terms of their contract.
> Weather, unforeseen material shortages,etc., can all be written in to protect the sub.
> Each sub is held accountable for his part. If he holds up another portion of the build, he is accountable.
> That being said, the biggest fight you will have on a residential build will be between plumbers and hvac as they are fighting for the same space.


Everyone is too busy, they will not sign and risk it. They don't need the risk. You may be able to get this in track homes but not likely from  anywhere else. For starters, unless it's track homes, The schedule is constantly moving. Typical subs don't write contracts. Track homes can't be put in the same box as a custom. Based on your view point, I assume your in Track homes. Maybe not? Where I am from, no one requires contracts of subs. If I did not trust them, then I would not use them. This may not be the norm in Georgia???


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## notnksnemor (Sep 4, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Everyone is too busy, they will not sign and risk it. They don't need the risk. You may be able to get this in track homes but not likely from  anywhere else. For starters, unless it's track homes, The schedule is constantly moving. Typical subs don't write contracts. Track homes can't be put in the same box as a custom. Based on your view point, I assume your in Track homes. Maybe not? Where I am from, no one requires contracts of subs. If I did not trust them, then I would not use them. This may not be the norm in Georgia???



No track homes, mostly commercial/industrial with a few custom homes of my own.
I hope working on trust continues to work for you.


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## mguthrie (Sep 4, 2017)

If your not familiar with the home building business it can be a nightmare for a doit  yourselfer. Get references. Make sure subs are insured by having there agent email there COI. There's to many subs running around with a copy of a COI in there pocket that's no good. If one of there employees gets hurt they could own your house. I wish you the best


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 4, 2017)

Sometimes the importance of waiting on a preferred sub over the soonest who can get there is not realized until it's to late. For example, brick mason. It would seem that it's repetitious enough that one crew is as good as the next. However, waste, brick joints, cleanliness of the site, and most important, clean laid brick are key factors in their qualifications to be considered. These things need to be known beforehand. It's up to the builder to see whom he has hired. You can't hire a grade 5 brick crew and then demand grade 9 results. It just don't work that way. This is like art. So, if you expect perfect work, then search out the crews known for perfect work, and expect to wait, because they will be in high demand, and be booked way out.


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 4, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Sometimes the importance of waiting on a preferred sub over the soonest who can get there is not realized until it's to late. For example, brick mason. It would seem that it's repetitious enough that one crew is as good as the next. However, waste, brick joints, cleanliness of the site, and most important, clean laid brick are key factors in their qualifications to be considered. These things need to be known beforehand. It's up to the builder to see whom he has hired. You can't hire a grade 5 brick crew and then demand grade 9 results. It just don't work that way. This is like art. So, if you expect perfect work, then search out the crews known for perfect work, and expect to wait, because they will be in high demand, and be booked way out.




Well explained.

You will also have to understand you are not going to have any leverage with suppliers as well.  You are a one off customer.  Having a complete materials list so you can compare apples to apples when pricing is a challenge as well.  And any changes are going to cost you in spades.


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## mguthrie (Sep 4, 2017)

jimbo4116 said:


> Well explained.
> 
> You will also have to understand you are not going to have any leverage with suppliers as well.  You are a one off customer.  Having a complete materials list so you can compare apples to apples when pricing is a challenge as well.  And any changes are going to cost you in spades.



As long as each supplier prices the same list. I see builders hand a set of plans to three different suppliers for pricing and they go with the cheapest one based on overall price not taking into account that there list is short of the materials needed for the job. Price each individual board between suppliers. I.e. How much is 1-9' stud, 1 sheet of osb or 1-2x8x12 ##2


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## mguthrie (Sep 4, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Sometimes the importance of waiting on a preferred sub over the soonest who can get there is not realized until it's to late. For example, brick mason. It would seem that it's repetitious enough that one crew is as good as the next. However, waste, brick joints, cleanliness of the site, and most important, clean laid brick are key factors in their qualifications to be considered. These things need to be known beforehand. It's up to the builder to see whom he has hired. You can't hire a grade 5 brick crew and then demand grade 9 results. It just don't work that way. This is like art. So, if you expect perfect work, then search out the crews known for perfect work, and expect to wait, because they will be in high demand, and be booked way out.



And cost more usually. You get what you pay for in this business


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 4, 2017)

Also, some subs are geared towards repair rather than new construction. Make sure you don't get... for example, a plumber whom does 90% repairs and 10% new construction. He may come highly recommended, but be out of his game. And will cost more. I hope that a local contractor to you may see this thread and step in to make you a good deal.... or offer you a sub list. Since your not in competition, it's possible.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 4, 2017)

Subs are getting harder to book. Having come out of our "depression" of 08-12, they had the mentality of don't let anything get away. We are in a point of having realized that we are working  ourselves to death and now starting to pass over jobs. We are back to "picking and choosing" what we want and letting the "questionable" jobs go elsewhere. Great time for new business start ups. All you have to do is do good efficient work and your in business. The "questionable". That is where we just don't have a good feeling.... out of town, a potential schedule conflict, low profit, unanswered questions, personality conflicts, and most of all.... the thought of working for someone who does not know how things should go. Whom you realize is about to drive you nuts. Be careful talking with potential subs because any hint of "question" and they will not call you back. Maybe not how it should be.... but that's the way it is


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## rjcruiser (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm about to launch on this journey myself.  Planning on doing a steel framed house build and the steel company to put up exterior shell, concrete and insulation.  Then, use subs to rough-in the house and finish the house out myself with subs here and there to help.  Wife and I plan on blogging about it....As we get going, I'll share here as well.


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## OmenHonkey (Sep 5, 2017)

About to finish my New build. Talk about STRESS!!! I went 2x4 walls and Foamed Insulation walls and roof decking with a  Standing Seam metal roof. 20 Seer HVAC unit and good windows. Total Encapsulation in the crawlspace. I Sub-ed everything out myself. It has been a headache at times and fun at times. Hopefully I'll be moving in around Oct.


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## sinclair1 (Sep 5, 2017)

I worked with a builder to do most of the house and pulled out some stuff to do myself. Floors, decks, cabinets, etc. my wife was a project manager for a builder, but being out of range for her subs, we went with the builder who knows the subs in the area. My wife knows the game, but knowing the subs is vital.
He was worth every penny and we got a great house And saved a good bit too.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 5, 2017)

OmenHonkey said:


> About to finish my New build. Talk about STRESS!!! I went 2x4 walls and Foamed Insulation walls and roof decking with a  Standing Seam metal roof. 20 Seer HVAC unit and good windows. Total Encapsulation in the crawlspace. I Sub-ed everything out myself. It has been a headache at times and fun at times. Hopefully I'll be moving in around Oct.


Good investment, great "envelope" as they call it


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 5, 2017)

rjcruiser said:


> I'm about to launch on this journey myself.  Planning on doing a steel framed house build and the steel company to put up exterior shell, concrete and insulation.  Then, use subs to rough-in the house and finish the house out myself with subs here and there to help.  Wife and I plan on blogging about it....As we get going, I'll share here as well.


Looking forward to it.... but I don't like steel framing. Wish I could talk you out of that. EDIT, Steel frame, exterior shell, concrete and insulation???? That sounds like a commercial building sub


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## jigman29 (Sep 5, 2017)

If you don't know a decent amount about building then I would steer clear. A good contractor is worth a lot in knowledge of subs. People are notorious for pulling the wool over homeowners eyes on projects. If it were me I would hire a contractor that has a great reputation and save my money elsewhere. Get materials lists ahead of time from the contractor and handle that yourself. You can save a lot of money that way, they are not going to pass savings on to you and they usually have a markup on materials as well. You can save thousands if you shop around and hit the surplus yards, especially on doors and windows. I have been around the industry most of my life and will tell you a few things about building a house.
1) You don't have near as many friends as you think you do. They are all gung ho about helping you until they have to sart giving up evenings and Saturdays. They drop like flies when that happens.
2)Set a budget and shoot for building your home for half of it but plan on spending  twice what you plan lol. Especially if the wife is picking stuff out.
3)Money spent on quality is never wasted. I worked in a cabinet shop and will tell you first hand that home depot or lowes cabinets are no where near the same quality. Don't do it, not for a minute. Spend the cash now for a set of quality built ones. Same for fixtures. Spend the money now so you wont have to later.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 7, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Looking forward to it.... but I don't like steel framing. Wish I could talk you out of that. EDIT, Steel frame, exterior shell, concrete and insulation???? That sounds like a commercial building sub



Yes, metal building exterior...traditional interior.  All studs will be wood...but there will be no load bearing walls on the inside.  Probably due 4" insulation on the ceiling with spray foam on top of it and spray foam in the walls.

Also, hoping to do a radiant heat in the slab....but not sure if that's going to make the cut.  

Curious as to why you don't like it?  or were you thinking metal studs?


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## natureman (Sep 7, 2017)

I few things I have learned over the years.  As already mentioned get the best windows and doors.  Using 2x6 framing and extra insulation is a no brainer. This may sound trivial but go ahead and put in a whole house central vacuum system and vent it outside.  Get the best HVAC system you can afford.  Get your drainage graded right around the house.  Hardieplank siding is a real good material.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 7, 2017)

rjcruiser said:


> Yes, metal building exterior...traditional interior.  All studs will be wood...but there will be no load bearing walls on the inside.  Probably due 4" insulation on the ceiling with spray foam on top of it and spray foam in the walls.
> 
> Also, hoping to do a radiant heat in the slab....but not sure if that's going to make the cut.
> 
> Curious as to why you don't like it?  or were you thinking metal studs?


I was thinking metal studs, metal trusses. I see what your doing. It's like a commercial building exterior?????


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## rjcruiser (Sep 7, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> I was thinking metal studs, metal trusses. I see what your doing. It's like a commercial building exterior?????



Yes. Almost like a post n beam...just no posts on the inside and steel...not wood.


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## skiff23 (Sep 10, 2017)

This. Spray foam is the best money and doing that with a on demand hot water heater and good widows and doors is the best way . 2x6 walls are not the best money now. 




1gr8bldr said:


> Hmmm. 2x6 walls.... If you study heat loss and heat gain in a home, the walls are a small percent of the ceiling. Without super high efficiency doors and windows, then 2x6 walls as well as foam are not much good. It's like building a walk in cooler, 20 inches thick with a 1/2 thick door. Foam 2x6 walls????. . It's simply waaaay beyond  reason. Everyone has opinions as to better, and of course it's better, but will it be realized? No, not since windows are the weak link.  Those that have foam in the walls also have foam in the ceiling. This is why their energy bill is low. 2x4 foam walls, reasonable with good windows.   Use that money  from 2x6 walls  to go tankless water heater and a high seer hvac unit.


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## skiff23 (Sep 10, 2017)

I build custom only. Just finished a lake house for an architect, he was tickled. You will get what you pay for.  I will give a close estimate on cost by I will only build cost plus 10 %. Giving someone a contract price on a custom home is wasted time in my opinion. EVERyONE MAKES CHANGES. If you want to pick out a track house plan and build  you will get the cheapest product possible. I build top quality . The scale of what I build is dependent on each home. Some may build a $ 90 a sq ft home or some may be $ 125 per sq ft , but my quality is the same. Trust is a big thing with me . I bring my customers in and encourage them to look at the cost as we progress on the project and explain what is being done and why as I go. Quality is lacking in todays homes and it is all about cost and people wanting it as cheap as they can get it. A good builder is worth every penny he earns. I have been called so many times to pick up where a do it yourselfer has gotten in trouble and people hiring non licensed builders is not funny. I have even given prices and been called back to finish jobs that someone had milked all the money and was more than my price was to start with and the job still uncompleted. Be careful who is hired . If you do the build yourself and you are not in the business you will get schooled from the subs to the inspectors all the way to what the wife changes her mind on.  Building is not easy now.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 11, 2017)

skiff23 said:


> This. Spray foam is the best money and doing that with a on demand hot water heater and good widows and doors is the best way . 2x6 walls are not the best money now.



What brand windows and doors would you say are good?  There are sooooo many different manufacturers out there.

Currently, we're looking at Windsor Pinnacle wood clad.  Wife wants black on the outside, so vinyl is out.


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## tree cutter 08 (Sep 11, 2017)

We went with pella windows and doors. Can remember the series but quality is good especially on the doors. We looked till blue in the face and glad we settled on pella.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 11, 2017)

rjcruiser said:


> What brand windows and doors would you say are good?  There are sooooo many different manufacturers out there.
> 
> Currently, we're looking at Windsor Pinnacle wood clad.  Wife wants black on the outside, so vinyl is out.


Clad windows are exxxxxxpensive. I have installed many jobs that used this window. As a matter of fact, I have friends who worked at Windsor. It's only a few miles from me. Good window and door. Be advised that the clad covers only the exterior face. The side edges of the sash  will need to be painted. The clad windows come with a plastic nailing flange that folds in until installation. It is about worthless. Once installed, I can move the window in and out about 1/4 inch. This is a problem, because you need it to stay in place, the jambs sticking inside exactly 1/2 inch to flush sheetrock. Many times these windows get bricked before rock and then you have a mess. Doors... problem magnified. However, they make a metal nailing bracket that attaches to the side of the jamb and it sticks inward and you fold it over the wood jack and nail it. You could easily make your own. No one ever buys these nailing brackets because the windows are so expensive, they hate to spend even more. And most people other than the framer even know it. All the clads are the same way. I have once seen a metal nailing flange, I don't recall the manufacturer,  yet they get bent up badly during transport. Be advised also, that large doors, such as a quad, will be delivered as singles that they expect you to put together. Another thought, Most buying clad don't spend the money for the "brick mold" look. Most windows you see have brick mold around them giving them .... say.. 4 to 5 inches of white/color before the glass. Unless you order it specific to have this look, it will come with 1/2 inch instead of the 2.5 brick mold. The wider looks better, but you will pay big time. Good luck. If it were me, I go with the Windsor no rot 100% PVC type window. http://www.windsorlegend.com/legend/double-hung Same glass, same energy ratings, comes brick mold, much much cheaper. Those clad windows.... I only ever see them used in million dollar homes, and even then, they don't have the brick mold version or the metal nailing flanges. They can be painted black. also, you can get vinly black windows. Jeld-wen and Marvin has them. Likely others as well. One more thing... Get the adjustable hinges. You will be so glad you did.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 11, 2017)

Food for thought, windows have come a long way, When I built my house, Caradco was the most popular high end window, that was "not" marketed. What I mean is that the big name, high priced, marketed, on TV , did I say overpriced windows, were never an option. I have set them all. Framing million dollar homes for 20 years gave me the experience of seeing them all. Once you go high end, there is not much difference. However, back to the point. A typical vinyl window has as good an efficiency rating as the higher end windows. They are much better than my Caradco's. Years ago, 'Energy Star" became a big word, like "going green" . Window manufactures made a high end and low end. Soon, no one would buy the low end and window manufactures had to make Energy Star windows, or go out of business. And before long, that same energy ratings to be classified as energy star, became a code requirement. Therefore, All windows are much better than they were 10 years ago, thanks to "Energy Star".  More food for thought, The gas inside the panes, leaks out after a few years. It used to be an option to get the gas. Now it's standard.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 11, 2017)

Here is a good site that explains window performance ratings, marked on a sticker on every window. Compare windows by this sticker

http://www.nfrc.org/energy-performance-label/


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## joey1919 (Sep 11, 2017)

I'm just finishing up what you're talking about. I self contracted the house and did a lot of the work myself . we've done this several times now. I'm not in the house building business but in a related field two very good friends of mine are home builders in the area. I know a lot of the subs in the Columbus Harris County area.

If you know a little about the process and have a lot of extra time you can save yourself a little money. If all you know about home building is from watching the DIY network, a builder will be money well spent.

I'm not smartest guy in the world but I'll pm you my number if you want to talk. If nothing else I can point you to the right people.


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## skiff23 (Sep 11, 2017)

I use a Linsay brand window . It is a vinyl window that is as good as it gets. Clad windows are over rated and expensive. Vinyl windows are coming in a few colors so you are not bound to just white. Installment is as important as the window itself. If you have a good quality window that is installed incorrectly , you do not have a good window, it will leak and and water.  Most window companies now have to be on line with technology and performance or they will not be there long.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 12, 2017)

Appreciate the advise and the help.  

I've got my seat belt buckled and feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pants and I'm just getting started.  Hope to be finished by mid-year next year.  We'll see if it is worth it all in the end


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 12, 2017)

I actually like the nailing flange on vinyl windows. Once nailed, then taped, No water is getting in. I also see it as a must when used inconjunction with vinyl siding. The recess behind the brickmold  acts as a Jmold only 10x better without the joint. I always order the broad brick mold... I think they call it the "Williamsburg"profile. Even then, it's not 100% water proof to a blowing rain. That's typical with vinyl siding. There is no way to stop it at corners and jmold


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## atlashunter (Oct 4, 2017)

joey1919 said:


> I'm just finishing up what you're talking about. I self contracted the house and did a lot of the work myself . we've done this several times now. I'm not in the house building business but in a related field two very good friends of mine are home builders in the area. I know a lot of the subs in the Columbus Harris County area.
> 
> If you know a little about the process and have a lot of extra time you can save yourself a little money. If all you know about home building is from watching the DIY network, a builder will be money well spent.
> 
> I'm not smartest guy in the world but I'll pm you my number if you want to talk. If nothing else I can point you to the right people.



Yes please do. We will be looking for quality subs in our area. Having gone through the process are there any lessons learned that come to mind?


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## atlashunter (Oct 4, 2017)

Already lots of good information on this thread. Nice to have the input of experienced and knowledgeable people. We've picked out a house plan. I'm thinking I may post pictures and updates as we go through this process. With patience, hard work, and some sound advice hopefully it will be a success story rather than a cautionary tale.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 4, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Already lots of good information on this thread. Nice to have the input of experienced and knowledgeable people. We've picked out a house plan. I'm thinking I may post pictures and updates as we go through this process. With patience, hard work, and some sound advice hopefully it will be a success story rather than a cautionary tale.



LOL...that's what I'm hoping as well.


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## DAWG1419 (Oct 9, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Already lots of good information on this thread. Nice to have the input of experienced and knowledgeable people. We've picked out a house plan. I'm thinking I may post pictures and updates as we go through this process. With patience, hard work, and some sound advice hopefully it will be a success story rather than a cautionary tale.



If you know the order subs go in you will be fine. We built/subed ours 15yrs ago and we have a ton of equity. Bout ready to sell and down size. Gonna build again. We agree on everything when building so it's easy for us.


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## OmenHonkey (Oct 9, 2017)

I'm almost ready to move into my "Self subed" home. Overall I had no big issues. Haven't run across anything I wish I would have done differently yet but i'm sure something will arise the longer i'm in the house. I actually spent my first night in there last night. But i'm in the finishing stages of trim paint and such so I figured I could have more time if I stayed there. Loved waking up this morning in my new Home!! Good luck guys!!


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## MudDucker (Oct 9, 2017)

I've done 4. Its a big undertaking!  Most have pointed out the problems and requirements.  Remember two things, insurance certificates for liability and workers compensation and affidavits acknowledging payment and waiving lien rights by each and every sub and each and every draw request.


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