# Arrows wobbling



## nix03 (Dec 27, 2015)

I have a Mathews Z7 been shot very little but out past 20 yards the nock end of arrow starts wobbling or going into circle and farther I shoot the bigger the circle it makes. 
Does this make since? What causes this and how can it be fixed?

Thanks.


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## goshenmountainman (Dec 27, 2015)

Either out of tune or spine of arrow to soft.


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## nix03 (Dec 27, 2015)

goshenmountainman said:


> Either out of tune or spine of arrow to soft.



Paper tune?? I will check to see what size arrows they are!
Thanks.


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## fishhunt05 (Dec 28, 2015)

My first thought was to weak of an arrow spine.


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## Blooper (Dec 28, 2015)

Did you find out the spine of the arrows your shooting yet? What draw length/poundage are you using as well?

If the nock end circles/wobbles worse and worse the farther the shot goes I got to lean towards a fletching issue of some sort. Is it every arrow you shoot does it or just been shooting the same 1 or two and they do it? Factory fletches or have these arrows been refletched? 

I can't wrap my head around the physics of it without the above answers.


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## nix03 (Dec 28, 2015)

Blooper said:


> Did you find out the spine of the arrows your shooting yet? What draw length/poundage are you using as well?
> 
> If the nock end circles/wobbles worse and worse the farther the shot goes I got to lean towards a fletching issue of some sort. Is it every arrow you shoot does it or just been shooting the same 1 or two and they do it? Factory fletches or have these arrows been refletched?
> 
> I can't wrap my head around the physics of it without the above answers.


Shooting Gold tip 5575 and some Radial X Weave 300 arrows. 
29 in draw and 65 pounds. Yes it's the nock end and the farther I shoot the more noticeable it is.


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## littlenorth (Dec 28, 2015)

Here are a couple of ideas if you have not already tried: 1)take a straight edge an lay it between two vanes along the arrow. Look to see if you see any light between the straight edge and the arrow shaft which will indicate a bent arrow. Rotate and do the same between each of the remaining set of two vanes. 2)put the point of the arrow on your thumb nail and rest the arrow near the fletching between your thumb and fore finger of your other hand. The arrow should be near vertical. Now blow on the vane to cause the arrow to spin. While spinning the arrow, look at the nock to see if there is any wobble. If the nock wobbles, it could be an over size nock (not the proper size for the arrow shaft), or not properly installed. If this is the case: remove the nock, thoroughly clean the nock area of the shaft and install a new nock. Before your archery cement sets up rotate the nock to evenly spread the archery cement, then do a spin test as before. All the best.


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## Grey Man (Dec 29, 2015)

The spine on those Gold Tips is fine for your setup. If it does it with all your arrows, it's a tuning issue.


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## Blooper (Dec 30, 2015)

Your spines on both are within the tunable range for your set up. In my experience, bow tune affects the shorter range flight of an arrow and the long range grouping.

Basically, the arrow comes off an improperly tuned bow and the fletching end "corrects" the flight of the arrow as it moves away from you. Rather your bow is in tune or not shouldn't affect the arrows misbehavior after 30-40 yards. By that time the arrow has been rotating for some time and the fletchings should flatten out the path of the arrow. A bow out of tune will group arrows badly at that distance due to it fletchings flattening out the arrows flight at different points in its travel to the target.

I would say the fletchings are damaged, mismatched (weighted differently), installed not in a sequential spread (120 degrees apart on a three fletch) or misshappened.

I have an inclination to think that the arrows were stored perhaps laying down flat on something and the fletchings are no longer in their original equal sided triangle spread at their tips. Were they stored as such? Or suspended in a quiver where the vanes made no contact with their surroundings?


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## Kris87 (Dec 30, 2015)

I didn't want to be the one that said the wobbling can't get bigger as the arrow travels further.  

I also tend to think most guys can't visibly spot wobbling arrows at speeds close to 300fps.  I know I can't.


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## Kris87 (Dec 30, 2015)

On a side note....I was shooting in my backyard with someone not too long ago on a sunny day.  They shot and said "wow, did you see how much that arrow wobbled?"  I said dude, your arrow is going in and out of those shadows from those pine trees.  It was deceiving.


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## Soybean (Dec 31, 2015)

Is it just 1 arrow or all of your arrows?  If every arrow and you are spined correctly, it is a tuning issue.  Also, bad form could play a factor and exacerbate the problem.  What rest are you using?

It could be rest timing (if a drop away), center shot is off, cam timing, nock point issues or a combo of several.  The Z series bows are pretty easy to fix up right with some simple tuning techniques.  You would need a press and a drawboard to do it right, otherwise a shop with a tech who is willing to put in the time is your only hope.  

The Zs like a little lean in the idler at rest.  Rest height/nock point  adjustments can fix your vertical issues while centershot/yoke adjustments can fix your horizontal issues.  

Start here and maybe we cant help diagnose the problem and point you in the right direction...

1) list what rest are you using?

2) Measure your basic bow specs.  They dont have to be exact but should be close, as in 1/16"-1/8" close.  They are starting points.  ATA should be  30" (measure center of axle to center of axle).
Brace height should be 7" (measure from throat of grip to string)

3) cam timing - does your cable run through the center of your timing hole? see picture

4) if your specs are good or close, fire a fletched arrow and 2 bare shaft arrows at 10 yards.  Do this 2-3 times and take pics.  I prefer bareshaft to paper tuning.  A bareshaft will tell you alot about what is happening.  Good grip and form are crucial with bareshaft tuning, they are sensitive.

Disclaimer:  I am NOT an expert or a bow tech.  I have spent the last 2-3 years tinkering with my own equipment and learning a lot from online research and a reputable bow tech.  I have a few mathews and love the solocam line.  I have had great results tuning up my Zs and sbxts myself but i am still learning. 

Sorry for the novel, I hope this helps


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## kbuck1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> I didn't want to be the one that said the wobbling can't get bigger as the arrow travels further.
> 
> I also tend to think most guys can't visibly spot wobbling arrows at speeds close to 300fps.  I know I can't.



I was thinking the same thing.  The vanes will stabilize better further down range.  Do you have a white cock vane?  Some times when the arrow is spinning and the sun hits the odd colored vane it will make it appear to be wobbling.  It's worse with white in my experience


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## Soybean (Dec 31, 2015)

what are defining wobbling to be in this case?

"wobbling or going into a circle" - I believe the OP may be talking about corkscrewing.  Probably just cant see it as good during a short 20 yd flight.


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## Kris87 (Dec 31, 2015)

I took it that he thinks his arrow is doing this..

o 0 0 0 the further out it travels.  Which I find impossible.


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## Soybean (Dec 31, 2015)

so may be an optical illusion? 

But what if you have porpoising and fishtailing at the same time, could that appear as a circular (or corkscrewing motion) during flight?  

Also, as an arrow looses speed during flight causing less wind resistance against the fletchings, wouldnt this cause the steering capabilities of the fletchings to decrease?  Thus allowing the erratic flight to become more noticeable?

Just a thought, or maybe over thinking  

OP, how do the arrows look once they have hit the target?


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## nix03 (Dec 31, 2015)

Soybean said:


> Is it just 1 arrow or all of your arrows?  If every arrow and you are spined correctly, it is a tuning issue.  Also, bad form could play a factor and exacerbate the problem.  What rest are you using?
> 
> It could be rest timing (if a drop away), center shot is off, cam timing, nock point issues or a combo of several.  The Z series bows are pretty easy to fix up right with some simple tuning techniques.  You would need a press and a drawboard to do it right, otherwise a shop with a tech who is willing to put in the time is your only hope.
> 
> ...



QAD drop rest, 
30 1/16 Ata
7 inch brace
No the string is not in the center of the timing hole timing hole like your pic shows, mine is more toward the string side of the hole. 
Thanks for the help.


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## nix03 (Dec 31, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> I took it that he thinks his arrow is doing this..
> 
> o 0 0 0 the further out it travels.  Which I find impossible.



I am not the only one who has seen it. Since you know so much why don't you ride up and see the impossible!


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## nix03 (Dec 31, 2015)

kbuck1 said:


> I was thinking the same thing.  The vanes will stabilize better further down range.  Do you have a white cock vane?  Some times when the arrow is spinning and the sun hits the odd colored vane it will make it appear to be wobbling.  It's worse with white in my experience



Yes 2 green and 1 white. It's defiantly not flying right! I don't know what it's called wobbling or corkscrewing or whatever.


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## nix03 (Dec 31, 2015)

Soybean said:


> what are defining wobbling to be in this case?
> 
> "wobbling or going into a circle" - I believe the OP may be talking about corkscrewing.  Probably just cant see it as good during a short 20 yd flight.



Maybe that's what it's called I have no idea of the name but it's defiantly not flying right.


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## Soybean (Dec 31, 2015)

nix03 said:


> QAD drop rest,
> 30 1/16 Ata
> 7 inch brace
> No the string is not in the center of the timing hole timing hole like your pic shows, mine is more toward the string side of the hole.
> Thanks for the help.



ok, specs seem to be ok.  if the cable slighty off in the timing hole, you should be ok.  the closer to center the better though.  a tech should be able to fix that with some minor twisting/untwisting of cable and string.  if the flight is as bad as you say, i suspect something else is going on though.

did this just start happening or has it always happened?  

what kind of QAD, hdx?  have you noticed any marks on your fletchings or the rest?  we should rule out fletching/rest contact.  QAD timing is a common issue.


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## Kris87 (Dec 31, 2015)

nix03 said:


> I am not the only one who has seen it. Since you know so much why don't you ride up and see the impossible!



I'll pass.  Hope you get some help.


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## BowanaLee (Dec 31, 2015)

nix03 said:


> I have a Mathews Z7 been shot very little but out past 20 yards the nock end of arrow starts wobbling or going into circle and farther I shoot the bigger the circle it makes.
> Does this make since? What causes this and how can it be fixed?
> 
> Thanks.



I feel for ya. Ain't much worst than a bad shooting bow during hunting season. 
My guess is fletching contact but its impossible to say what your problem is with out seeing it. 
Take it to your closest pro shop or friend with experience working on bows. Please post results too. Good luck !


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## deerslayer0369 (Jan 4, 2016)

nix03 said:


> I am not the only one who has seen it. Since you know so much why don't you ride up and see the impossible!



Man he was poking at ya no need to get the undies in a wad. By the way, Kris87 is one of the best guys on here when it comes to bow tuning. I know if I have an issue I can't resolve that I'm going straight to him. I will add that once the bow is "tuned" properly that I would check the rest for proper alignment...a walk back tune will give away a rest issue. Check out some of Levi Morgan's tuning vids on YouTube.


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## Grey Man (Jan 5, 2016)

A paper tune will reveal if the arrow is out of alignment in flight and which direction it is bending/corkscrewing/whatever we are calling it. A walk back tune will reveal if that problem is consistent or changes over distance. I would start there. You can mess a lot of stuff up trying to fix the wrong problem.


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## deerslayer0369 (Jan 5, 2016)

A paper tune only gets it close bc of the distance or lack there of. A walk back tune is for the final adjustments. If his bow is in spec and paper tuned the next step would be a walk back tune, that's assuming there isn't a vane issue. Myself personally, I would take it to a shop to render the problem since I do not own a press.


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## watermedic (Jan 5, 2016)

Before doing any paper or walkback tuning, make sure that there isn't any fletching contact and that the rest is timed properly.

Then move to paper or walkback tuning.


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## deadbox (Jan 9, 2016)

I'm sure this is a long shot. But your not shooting the new nocturnal led nock are you?  I've seen many with the new fin on it cause arrows to fly very erratic? If not it could just be your off on your form. I was having very bad arrow flight.  Had my buddy watch me. He said pay more attention to my release. I sometimes take for granted it takes consistency and get over confident and just punch the trigger expecting it to hit its mark because I know I can. 

Maybe everything I said was insignificant but it's my 1.5 cent


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