# Deer/Hog Carcasses



## ScarFoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Any of you guys ever watched/checked  your deer or hog Carcasses after a kill? For a few days? How long did it take for bears to find it? Just curious?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 27, 2021)

Real real fast


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## chrislibby88 (Jul 27, 2021)

Would this be considered baiting if you hunted over a gut pile?  
Coyotes and vultures probably get on it quicker than bears.


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## ScarFoot (Jul 27, 2021)

I think? As long as you don't move the gut pile, your legal...


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 27, 2021)

Its legal unless you tie it to a tree. And a bear is gonna drag it somewhere thick and nasty quick. 

Bears are bananas for pork.


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## splatek (Jul 27, 2021)

Are you talking about shooting an animal to let it die as bait, because although that would likely be legal, I guess, it would be IMHO questionably ethical. 
OR, are you talking about the leftovers after you have harvest every piece of meat and any trophy and packed that stuff out? Which in that case, I could see an argument for it.


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## chrislibby88 (Jul 27, 2021)

splatek said:


> Are you talking about shooting an animal to let it die as bait, because although that would likely be legal, I guess, it would be IMHO questionably ethical.
> OR, are you talking about the leftovers after you have harvest every piece of meat and any trophy and packed that stuff out? Which in that case, I could see an argument for it.


I think he’s talking about the gut pile/deboned carcass. I also don’t think it’s legal to shoot game animals and leave the meat. There’s no laws against shooting pigs and leaving them laying.


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## twoheartedale (Jul 27, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Its legal unless you tie it to a tree. And a bear is gonna drag it somewhere thick and nasty quick.
> 
> Bears are bananas for pork.



If said hog was killed and tumble into a ball of rather large twine, is that illegal?


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## ScarFoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Nice





splatek said:


> Are you talking about shooting an animal to let it die as bait, because although that would likely be legal, I guess, it would be IMHO questionably ethical.
> OR, are you talking about the leftovers after you have harvest every piece of meat and any trophy and packed that stuff out? Which in that case, I could see an argument for it.


I would not kill any animal on public land and leave it for bait, first it's unethical, and second you would be guilty of wanton waste. I'm talking about the  leftover carcass, bones gut pile etc.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 27, 2021)

Killing hogs is an ecological service. I think it should be mandatory no matter the season or method.


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## jbogg (Jul 27, 2021)

I shot a good size boar hog about 30 minutes before last light on opening day of bow season three or four years ago on Chattahoochee WMA. I searched by headlamp for well over an hour in waist high blueberry bushes but could not find him.  I could not get back up there for a few days, but I returned on Wednesday four days later with a hunting buddy and we ended up walking a small grid until we smelled him. Turns out he had rolled down the opposite side of the ridge from where I thought I heard him fall.  Other than something small chewing on his face he was untouched by bears when we found him. 
Since it looked like I had a ready-made bait station and I was certain it would just be a matter of time before the Bears found him I returned the next morning to sit over that rotting carcass in hopes of connecting on a bear. When I arrived the next morning five days after the Kill,  the coyotes had found him,  but still no sign of Bears which was very surprising given that it was on one of the most bear dense areas in the National Forest.


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## ScarFoot (Jul 27, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I shot a good size boar hog about 30 minutes before last light on opening day of bow season three or four years ago on Chattahoochee WMA. I searched by headlamp for well over an hour in waist high blueberry bushes but could not find him.  I could not get back up there for a few days, but I returned on Wednesday four days later with a hunting buddy and we ended up walking a small grid until we smelled him. Turns out he had rolled down the opposite side of the ridge from where I thought I heard him fall.  Other than something small chewing on his face he was untouched by bears when we found him.
> Since it looked like I had a ready-made bait station and I was certain it would just be a matter of time before the Bears found him I returned the next morning to sit over that rotting carcass in hopes of connecting on a bear. When I arrived the next morning five days after the Kill,  the coyotes had found him,  but still no sign of Bears which was very surprising given that it was on one of the most bear dense areas in the National Forest.
> View attachment 1093548


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## ScarFoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Thanks for the real experience reply, I hunted a place that didn't have bears for a few years, coyotes were thick and they would find kills within a few hrs after dark, I was just wondering how actively bears may be scavenging carcasses, I know guys out west that have hunted elk carcasses with limited success.


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## chrislibby88 (Jul 27, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Thanks for the real experience reply, I hunted a place that didn't have bears for a few years, coyotes were thick and they would find kills within a few hrs after dark, I was just wondering how actively bears may be scavenging carcasses, I know guys out west that have hunted elk carcasses with limited success.


Depends on the time of year too. If there are plentiful acorns out it’s gonna be hard to pull them away from those, then late in the season they aren’t super active, so it may take them some time to find a carcass.


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## Heath (Jul 27, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I shot a good size boar hog about 30 minutes before last light on opening day of bow season three or four years ago on Chattahoochee WMA. I searched by headlamp for well over an hour in waist high blueberry bushes but could not find him.  I could not get back up there for a few days, but I returned on Wednesday four days later with a hunting buddy and we ended up walking a small grid until we smelled him. Turns out he had rolled down the opposite side of the ridge from where I thought I heard him fall.  Other than something small chewing on his face he was untouched by bears when we found him.
> Since it looked like I had a ready-made bait station and I was certain it would just be a matter of time before the Bears found him I returned the next morning to sit over that rotting carcass in hopes of connecting on a bear. When I arrived the next morning five days after the Kill,  the coyotes had found him,  but still no sign of Bears which was very surprising given that it was on one of the most bear dense areas in the National Forest.
> View attachment 1093548



Careful, you are gonna throw a wrench in people’s fairy tales.  I’ve had 3% of my hog carcasses touched by a bear since 2017.  That’s almost an exact number.  Granted,  I’m sure they get found eventually if the coyotes leave anything.


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## dusty200001 (Jul 27, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Nice
> I would not kill any animal on public land and leave it for bait, first it's unethical, and second you would be guilty of wanton waste. I'm talking about the  leftover carcass, bones gut pile etc.



i believe that would only be if left in water. I personally would harvest the animal and take ever effort to retrieve but hogs are a invasive species anyways to the area anyways…..so would he be wrong?


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## Tio Hey Seuss (Jul 28, 2021)

Heath said:


> Careful, you are gonna throw a wrench in people’s fairy tales.  I’ve had 3% of my hog carcasses touched by a bear since 2017.  That’s almost an exact number.  Granted,  I’m sure they get found eventually if the coyotes leave anything.



I've always suspected they eat much less meat than most deer hunters suggest lol


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

The hunting community has far more wives tales and theories than it does actual hunters.  No doubt a bear will eat a dead hog or deer.  It’s just not a common occurrence in my experience.  I know of a handful of deer claimed in the last 20 years and even less hog carcasses.  But, most people are regurgitating what they hear on TV or the internet.  Most people think bear prey heavily on hogs and that’s not reality.  Bear generally give hogs a wide berth.  Yes, the occasional rogue bear figures out it can catch pigs.  The largest percentage of our bear are not big enough to take a pig from a mature sow that will outweigh our average bear by 80-100 pounds.  My depredation calls on sheep and cattle are fairly consistent with the percentage of wild game kills that bear claim.  It’s just not that often.  I’ve raised a bunch of meat hogs here and the bear eat food scraps 10 feet away and never fool with the hogs.  They climb into the hog lot and eat the pigs feed but don’t mess with the hogs.  Yes,  a bad winter or rogue bear will do all sorts of strange things but....what do I know?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 28, 2021)

Ive personally had three hog carcasses be dragged off inside of 24 hours. 

Been to canada 16 times and if you wanna see a bear bait that theyll choose over doughnuts, it’s pork.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 28, 2021)

Know why eastern NC has the biggest bears on earth?  Hog farms


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## longrangedog (Jul 28, 2021)

Heath said:


> The largest percentage of our bear are not big enough to take a pig from a mature sow that will outweigh our average bear by 80-100 pounds


Is this a misprint or are you saying that mature sows outweigh bears by 80-100 pounds?


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## rosewood (Jul 28, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Nice
> second you would be guilty of wanton waste. .


Is this a thing in Georgia law?  I have never seen it in the hunting regs, but have seen it mentioned/ticketed lots in those Alaskan and northern US DNR tv shows.

Rosewood


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## rosewood (Jul 28, 2021)

I imagine bears are like most other critters, they go for the easiest food source.  Killing a hog when there is food that doesn't fight back isn't easy.  Also, unlike many other predators, bears like fruits, grubs etc also.  They do not depend entirely on kills.

Rosewood


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Know why eastern NC has the biggest bears on earth?  Hog farms



No sir,  12 month feeding.  And lots and lots of it in abundance everywhere is why they have the largest black bears on Earth.  It’s funny, I jokingly say things about TV hunters but I literally know the shows and articles you’ve read to form your opinions.  Eastern North Carolina has huge coons around those Hog barns too, I just got back from hunting them recently.  The coons and bear pour into those feed bin yards where the bins overflow onto the ground.  Keep talking,  you give more validity to what Ive written with every sentence you type.  I realize you may have been to a place they were using hog carcasses as bait because that happens.  But those bears are being conditioned to that.  It’s not typical behavior because hogs farms don’t typically leave dead hogs just laying around.  They have to dispose of them just like chicken farmers.  I lived in Eastern North Carolina for a short while.  Go on and share more of your store bought knowledge.  You keep telling on yourself


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

longrangedog said:


> Is this a misprint or are you saying that mature sows outweigh bears by 80-100 pounds?



No sir,  not a misprint.  You better look at our average harvested bear weights.  It hovers around 130-150 lbs.  Our bear are not very large on average.  Old growth forest is not conducive to weight gain or max genetic expression.  The average sow hog I kill is somewhere between 180-250 very regularly.  Bear do not test them regularly unless they are old, starving, or their mother had a knack for it and taught them before weaning.  Again,  these things are common misunderstandings in the hunting world.  I happen to be fortunate enough to be able to hunt 7 days a week.  I literally live with them.  I hear people all the time ragging on people shooting small bears.  Heck, I’ve seen very few large bear in all of the Appalachian mountain range.  I’ve killed them over 450 and touched them way over 500 but that was less than 10 out of 1000.  The average brood sow is larger than our average bear.  Hogs are more efficient growers by nature.


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Ive personally had three hog carcasses be dragged off inside of 24 hours.
> 
> Been to canada 16 times and if you wanna see a bear bait that theyll choose over doughnuts, it’s pork.



That should clear it up for people.  Because you pay someone to bait a bear up for you to kill we should all heed your bear hunting knowledge.  Makes perfect sense.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 28, 2021)

One of my best friends was a biologist in Alligator River NWR. My opinion is based on his experience.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 28, 2021)

Heath said:


> That should clear it up for people.  Because you pay someone to bait a bear up for you to kill we should all heed your bear hunting knowledge.  Makes perfect sense.



What some strangers on the internet think of my hunting skills is of no concern to me. 

Have a good day man.


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> One of my best friends was a biologist in Alligator River NWR. My opinion is based on his experience.



He should have had them charged for baiting bear because it was illegal at that time! Baiting was just recently allowed in North Carolina. Hogs are properly disposed of at most every hog farm I’ve been on.  Or were y’all trying to kill bears over hog carcasses?


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## ddd-shooter (Jul 28, 2021)

Well I don't know why the convo got so heated. I might as well get involved, lol

My experience: I have had a quartered hog drug off my deck by a bear one spring. Was at least 80# of meat on the bone still. It took the whole cooler two hundred yards away and ate it all.

I have seen evidence bears visit abandoned deer carcasses during season, I'm guessing mostly at midnight, lol. 

We know they love to eat fawns in the spring, uga is studying that.

I'm not sure why a bear being a true omnivore gets people surprised or bothered.

So, I would say during bear season, chances are better on acorns. Any kills or carcass would only be visited at night, unless you were somewhere super thick anyway


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> What some strangers on the internet think of my hunting skills is of no concern to me.
> 
> Have a good day man.


 
It’s not your skills that concern me.  It’s your absolute unwillingness to understand that you know very little about hunting, killing, or bears and hogs in general as they pertain to our specific region.  Yet, you continue to spread the word like it’s the gospel to people that I feel are genuinely interested and want to learn.  The last thing I want is a guy that doesn’t know much and openly admits to paying for someone to bait him up a bear to be the one influencing new hunters.  You want every hog eliminated.  Even though we’ve been enjoying them for 100 years here before television told you they shouldn’t be here. On this forum it is easy for you to influence people that don’t know any better.  I feel like it’s an injustice for me to read some of this nonsense and let others be led astray by it.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jul 28, 2021)

Like I said. I hope you have a great day buddy.


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## CornStalker (Jul 28, 2021)

Fellas, I think we can have a fun and insightful discussion without being so emotional. No need to personally attack folks.

Also, just a word of encouragement—if you believe the hunting community stands to benefit from the information you have, you may want to say (or type) it in a way that makes it easiest for them to hear. Most people don’t take a verbal tongue lashing well…


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

Back to the original post,  Jbogg pretty much summed it up with his experience in his post above.  It can happen, but I wouldn’t waste my time waiting for it.  I do know a bunch of coyotes, fox, and one bobcat have lost their lives on a gut pile.  I know of a bear that claimed a buck within minutes of going down a few years ago.  I got called to help drag them both out!

Heres something else for you to think on.  I used to have my 3D targets beside my hog lot.  I never had a hog killed by a bear but I’ve lost 2 deer targets to them when there were small live pigs just feet away.  Had to move them back down around the house to keep the bear from destroying them.  That makes me wonder if they are more predatory on deer than I assume.  

Another interesting thing I’ve observed,  is people always said hogs eat snakes.  I’ve yet to get a hog to eat a snake.  I’ve tried over and over again with different groups of hogs.  They will avoid that side of the hog lot like the plague and I eventually have to get the rotting snake out so the hogs can go on with living.  Maybe I’ve had different groups of retarded hogs or maybe there are just lots of old wives tales.


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## mallardsx2 (Jul 28, 2021)

I killed a couple hogs a few years back and nothing toughed them for a month except for ravens, crows, and buzzards. 

This was in prime bear country.


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## jbogg (Jul 28, 2021)

Just to muddy the water here is another related story. I shot the boar in the photo below at last light on opening day of turkey season four or five years ago.  I had set up for an afternoon turkey hunt on a small food plot and after listening to a gobbler sound off at least 50 times over a 30 minute period earlier in the afternoon this nice boar appears at the far end of the plot right at last light. I actually thought it was a bear at first. He ended up trotting across the length of the field right to me, and about 40 yards out he started angling for the woods.  I shouldered my CVA wolf and took the shot. The hog turned and ran the complete length of the field back to where he had appeared.  I promise I recover most of the animals I shoot, but you wouldn’t know it from my last two stories. In fairness, this was the first hog I had ever shot, and the first animal ever taken with my muzzleloader. Could not find a drop of blood. It got blacker than pitch underneath the huge pines down in the drain where he had disappeared, and my feeble headlamp was all but worthless. 
Fast forward to the next weekend and after hunting some national forest in the morning I decided to return to the same food plot for another afternoon hunt hoping the gobbler that had sounded off the week before would make a return visit.  As I eased down the gated road leading to the plot I noticed buzzards flapping around in the trees just off into the woods in the same area where the pig had left the field. As I got closer I could see something moving on the Forest floor but it looked strange. I finally realized I was looking at the back half of a bear that was shoulder deep into the torso of a rotting hog carcass.  I quietly moved towards him until I realized he was never going to know I was there as he was literally buried inside this huge pig. I probably could have slapped him on the rear.  Common sense finally dawned on me and I shouted to get his attention. He quickly backed out of the pig and as soon as he recognized me for what I was he headed for the next county. This hog was every bit of 275 pounds, and Half of it was completely gone.   Bears are opportunistic. Not much energy expenditure when A bear finds a carcass so I would expect them to take full advantage. 
As a side note, after relating my story to Killerkyle he talked me into returning the following morning to retrieve my “trophy boar” skull.  It is still proudly displayed in my man cave to this day.


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## Heath (Jul 28, 2021)

That would be more like what I would expect.  I generally make a lap back by kills within a couple weeks and some are touched but most are just picked at by scavengers.  The ones I can remember being bear claimed were almost all in warm weather.


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## ddd-shooter (Jul 28, 2021)

Sounds about right. Like I said, in the springtime, eating is slim. 
Fall during season, they have a lot more options.


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## ddd-shooter (Jul 28, 2021)

jbogg said:


> Just to muddy the water here is another related story. I shot the boar in the photo below at last light on opening day of turkey season four or five years ago.  I had set up for an afternoon turkey hunt on a small food plot and after listening to a gobbler sound off at least 50 times over a 30 minute period earlier in the afternoon this nice boar appears at the far end of the plot right at last light. I actually thought it was a bear at first. He ended up trotting across the length of the field right to me, and about 40 yards out he started angling for the woods.  I shouldered my CVA wolf and took the shot. The hog turned and ran the complete length of the field back to where he had appeared.  I promise I recover most of the animals I shoot, but you wouldn’t know it from my last two stories. In fairness, this was the first hog I had ever shot, and the first animal ever taken with my muzzleloader. Could not find a drop of blood. It got blacker than pitch underneath the huge pines down in the drain where he had disappeared, and my feeble headlamp was all but worthless.
> Fast forward to the next weekend and after hunting some national forest in the morning I decided to return to the same food plot for another afternoon hunt hoping the gobbler that had sounded off the week before would make a return visit.  As I eased down the gated road leading to the plot I noticed buzzards flapping around in the trees just off into the woods in the same area where the pig had left the field. As I got closer I could see something moving on the Forest floor but it looked strange. I finally realized I was looking at the back half of a bear that was shoulder deep into the torso of a rotting hog carcass.  I quietly moved towards him until I realized he was never going to know I was there as he was literally buried inside this huge pig. I probably could have slapped him on the rear.  Common sense finally dawned on me and I shouted to get his attention. He quickly backed out of the pig and as soon as he recognized me for what I was he headed for the next county. This hog was every bit of 275 pounds, and Half of it was completely gone.   Bears are opportunistic. Not much energy expenditure when A bear finds a carcass so I would expect them to take full advantage.
> As a side note, after relating my story to Killerkyle he talked me into returning the following morning to retrieve my “trophy boar” skull.  It is still proudly displayed in my man cave to this day.
> View attachment 1093745View attachment 1093746



Nice hog skull, never really thought about keeping one. 
What’s the horn behind them?


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## jbogg (Jul 28, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> Nice hog skull, never really thought about keeping one.
> What’s the horn behind them?



I don’t know the story of the horn. My grandfather gave it to me when I was very young and then he passed on not long there after. It appears to be one of the horns a Houndsman would have used to call back a pack of dogs.


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## twoheartedale (Jul 28, 2021)

I do know for a fact hogs chewed half the head off a doe I killed on Blackbeard Island, it was 5 minutes at most after i killed it.  I could hear them crushing the skull.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jul 28, 2021)

I’ve killed hog in the slews near a swamp. Checked back thru 2-3 days later and the carcass is picked clean…..nothing but more hog tracks where they ate their own. We don’t have bears and that’s carcass we used the gutless method on. I’ve got a picture somewhere.


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## Para Bellum (Jul 28, 2021)

splatek said:


> Are you talking about shooting an animal to let it die as bait, because although that would likely be legal, I guess, it would be IMHO questionably ethical.
> OR, are you talking about the leftovers after you have harvest every piece of meat and any trophy and packed that stuff out? Which in that case, I could see an argument for it.



Ethics take a back seat to non-native invasives.


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## Para Bellum (Jul 28, 2021)

Everyone please take note that Heath is the epitome of a mountain man. He has hunted, fished and trapped the mountains longer than any of you and needs more than anything for you all to know that.


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## chrislibby88 (Jul 28, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> Sounds about right. Like I said, in the springtime, eating is slim.
> Fall during season, they have a lot more options.


Yea I would put my bets on a lean hungry spring bear hitting a carcass before a fat acorn fed fall bear.


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## Heath (Jul 29, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> Everyone please take note that Heath is the epitome of a mountain man. He has hunted, fished and trapped the mountains longer than any of you and needs more than anything for you all to know that.



Hahaha,  please don’t remove this thread.  I love these guys.  Please go read the definition of Ethics and see if you can at least find the irony in what you posted before this gem. 
You don’t know this but there are men in these Mountains from Georgia to West Virginia that talk in hundreds when it comes to bear kills. Not only bear but deer and hogs as well. They actually do know more than you.  I’ve tried to sit in most of their living rooms and learn and it’s taken about 2 decades.  I know for a fact I’m not the best alive.  I’ve sat and listened and even hunted with some of the best alive.  I get a huge kick out of reading a collective group that might have 20 bear killed between them telling each other how to do it. A bunch of those killed over bait and proudly admitted.  
I will not apologize for hurting your feelings.  The truth is inconvenient and hurtful sometimes.  
Jbogg and a few others,  Sorry for derailing your posts.  I was trying to pat you on the back because you are actually hunting and finding out the truth.  The longer you hunt the more of these wives tales you will debunk.  Eventually, you will realize most people don’t have a clue and never will.


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## Para Bellum (Jul 29, 2021)

Heath said:


> Hahaha,  please don’t remove this thread.  I love these guys.  Please go read the definition of Ethics and see if you can at least find the irony in what you posted before this gem.
> You don’t know this but there are men in these Mountains from Georgia to West Virginia that talk in hundreds when it comes to bear kills. Not only bear but deer and hogs as well. They actually do know more than you.  I’ve tried to sit in most of their living rooms and learn and it’s taken about 2 decades.  I know for a fact I’m not the best alive.  I’ve sat and listened and even hunted with some of the best alive.  I get a huge kick out of reading a collective group that might have 20 bear killed between them telling each other how to do it. A bunch of those killed over bait and proudly admitted.
> I will not apologize for hurting your feelings.  The truth is inconvenient and hurtful sometimes.
> Jbogg and a few others,  Sorry for derailing your posts.  I was trying to pat you on the back because you are actually hunting and finding out the truth.  The longer you hunt the more of these wives tales you will debunk.  Eventually, you will realize most people don’t have a clue and never will.



Careful not to trip.  You know, walking on water and all.    You and across the river bout the most holier than thou folks on Woodys.  And you ain’t hurt my feelings a bit brother.  I just don’t care for your constant whining and condescending tone.


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## Heath (Jul 29, 2021)

Well, let’s not get the thread deleted.  I like the spirited debate.  I can always learn something new.  How soon have you seen a bear take a hog or deer after you killed it?  I’ll explain what Ive seen one more time for you.  I’ve seen bear claim them overnight but Ive seen 90% +/- take a week or more before a bear found them (or at least ate on them).  I’ve only killed 33 hogs since 2017 so that’s not a huge sample size but it is what I’ve seen.  All of them except a couple were winter killed as I don’t kill many while it’s hot so it could definitely be different as weather warms as some people have attested to.
I don’t agree with your interpretation of ethics.  By definition they aren’t your morals or principles if you can simply set them aside.  We’ve been killing hogs in the Southern Appalachian Mountains for nearly 100 years even though they were non native.  They also helped many families survive early on.  All my life they were classified as Wild Boar by the state of North Carolina and we had big game tags and bag limits here in the mountains to protect them.  Did you know that?  What changed?  They were a highly sought after big game animal in the Smokies during the entire first half and into the latter part of the 20th century.  Even into 2004 when I could kill one on this side of the state line and it was a feral hog and on the other it was still labeled a Wild Boar and I only had 2 tags.  Fill me in, I am truly interested in the information you have that might help me understand.  I’m just a poor dumb hillbilly after all.


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## Para Bellum (Jul 29, 2021)

Heath said:


> Well, let’s not get the thread deleted.  I like the spirited debate.  I can always learn something new.  How soon have you seen a bear take a hog or deer after you killed it?  I’ll explain what Ive seen one more time for you.  I’ve seen bear claim them overnight but Ive seen 90% +/- take a week or more before a bear found them (or at least ate on them).  I’ve only killed 33 hogs since 2017 so that’s not a huge sample size but it is what I’ve seen.  All of them except a couple were winter killed as I don’t kill many while it’s hot so it could definitely be different as weather warms as some people have attested to.
> I don’t agree with your interpretation of ethics.  By definition they aren’t your morals or principles if you can simply set them aside.  We’ve been killing hogs in the Southern Appalachian Mountains for nearly 100 years even though they were non native.  They also helped many families survive early on.  All my life they were classified as Wild Boar by the state of North Carolina and we had big game tags and bag limits here in the mountains to protect them.  Did you know that?  What changed?  They were a highly sought after big game animal in the Smokies during the entire first half and into the latter part of the 20th century.  Even into 2004 when I could kill one on this side of the state line and it was a feral hog and on the other it was still labeled a Wild Boar and I only had 2 tags.  Fill me in, I am truly interested in the information you have that might help me understand.  I’m just a poor dumb hillbilly after all.



You’re definitely not dumb.  And I’m guessing not poor.  And I’m no expert on any of the above.  I am simply a retired field forester with a science background.  Unfortunately, despite their mystique and history, I’m prejudice and forced to lump feral pigs in with the kudzus, privets and wisterias of the southeast.   Before I moved to the mountains, I lived on 34 acres in Taliaferro County on the Little River drainage.  The first year I lived there, I killed 52 hogs.  The next year, I killed 38 and so on and so on.  They destroyed everything I was proud of from row crops to simple food plots.  The mystique wore off quick.  I’m glad they entertained and fed folks and families in the mountains but I’m a simple man and simply put, I hate them and bottom line, they’re not supposed to be here.  They take away from things that do belong here.  So, in my personal opinion, shooting one and letting it lay in hopes of taking a native game animal is fine.  And the change in tone is refreshing and greatly appreciated.  I’ll duck out of y’all’s conversation now and hope good bears for everyone this season.  I might even take one myself.


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## ScarFoot (Jul 29, 2021)

Heath said:


> Well, let’s not get the thread deleted.  I like the spirited debate.  I can always learn something new.  How soon have you seen a bear take a hog or deer after you killed it?  I’ll explain what Ive seen one more time for you.  I’ve seen bear claim them overnight but Ive seen 90% +/- take a week or more before a bear found them (or at least ate on them).  I’ve only killed 33 hogs since 2017 so that’s not a huge sample size but it is what I’ve seen.  All of them except a couple were winter killed as I don’t kill many while it’s hot so it could definitely be different as weather warms as some people have attested to.
> I don’t agree with your interpretation of ethics.  By definition they aren’t your morals or principles if you can simply set them aside.  We’ve been killing hogs in the Southern Appalachian Mountains for nearly 100 years even though they were non native.  They also helped many families survive early on.  All my life they were classified as Wild Boar by the state of North Carolina and we had big game tags and bag limits here in the mountains to protect them.  Did you know that?  What changed?  They were a highly sought after big game animal in the Smokies during the entire first half and into the latter part of the 20th century.  Even into 2004 when I could kill one on this side of the state line and it was a feral hog and on the other it was still labeled a Wild Boar and I only had 2 tags.  Fill me in, I am truly interested in the information you have that might help me understand.  I’m just a poor dumb hillbilly after all.



I appreciate everyone's input, didn't want to start a fire. 

 I have thought about the changed status from game animal to nuisance animal and the population increase in feral hog numbers. The only thing that ever made any since to me was that up until the last 25-30 yrs or so there were alot more outlaws and poachers everywhere. A handful of folks in a given area can do any any game population great harm hunting day and night And running hounds snaring trapping etc. When I was a bit younger I was surrounded by folks that had no regard for the law and we rarely ever saw a wildlife agent of any type. My father and great uncle's hunted deer to near extinction with walker hounds in my area. (They ran hounds year round and shot from Oct till March) The state actually restocked my area with deer in the late 80's because they were on the brink. Any other animal that had the mis fortune of getting in front of the dogs also cought a load of 00, I think the change of ways of many and game law enforcement has inadvertantly caused the hog population to explode in the last 25yrs. I'm glad things aren't the way they used to be. But I do believe the hog problem is a result of the large scale demise of the subsistence poacher.

I could be wrong


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## Heath (Jul 29, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> You’re definitely not dumb.  And I’m guessing not poor.  And I’m no expert on any of the above.  I am simply a retired field forester with a science background.  Unfortunately, despite their mystique and history, I’m prejudice and forced to lump feral pigs in with the kudzus, privets and wisterias of the southeast.   Before I moved to the mountains, I lived on 34 acres in Taliaferro County on the Little River drainage.  The first year I lived there, I killed 52 hogs.  The next year, I killed 38 and so on and so on.  They destroyed everything I was proud of from row crops to simple food plots.  The mystique wore off quick.  I’m glad they entertained and fed folks and families in the mountains but I’m a simple man and simply put, I hate them and they’re not supposed to be here.  They take away from things that belong here.  So, in my personal opinion, shooting one and letting in lay in hopes of taking a native game animal is fine.  And the change in tone is refreshing and greatly appreciated.  I’ll duck out of y’all’s conversation now and hope good bears for everyone this season.  I might even take one myself.



I can totally understand your point of view.  It’s real, and makes good sense.  That’s the first argument anyone’s given that wasn’t some nonsense talking point they heard or read and just regurgitated.  I believe every farmer or land owner should have every rite to deal with a nuisance animal whether it is native or not.  I also realize Middle and South Georgia have a different set of issues in regards to more private property and large production farms.  Out of curiosity, have you had many hog problems personally since you moved here?


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## Rabun (Jul 29, 2021)

Was gone when I went back about 16 hrs later. Was dragged up the mountain in a thicket and I wasn’t going in there.


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## Heath (Jul 29, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> I appreciate everyone's input, didn't want to start a fire.
> 
> I have thought about the changed status from game animal to nuisance animal and the population increase in feral hog numbers. The only thing that ever made any since to me was that up until the last 25-30 yrs or so there were alot more outlaws and poachers everywhere. A handful of folks in a given area can do any any game population great harm hunting day and night And running hounds snaring trapping etc. When I was a bit younger I was surrounded by folks that had no regard for the law and we rarely ever saw a wildlife agent of any type. My father and great uncle's hunted deer to near extinction with walker hounds in my area. (They ran hounds year round and shot from Oct till March) The state actually restocked my area with deer in the late 80's because they were on the brink. Any other animal that had the mis fortune of getting in front of the dogs also cought a load of 00, I think the change of ways of many and game law enforcement has inadvertantly caused the hog population to explode in the last 25yrs. I'm glad things aren't the way they used to be. But I do believe the hog problem is a result of the large scale demise of the subsistence poacher.
> 
> I could be wrong



You didn’t start a war, it’s the same ol bickering by me and a few others.  I agree that your theory is plausible.  You could test it easily.  Ask the DNR to take the shackles off us and let us hunt them August 1 - May 31. Day and night by any method on all public land.  Or heck, let us hunt them between big game dates on WMA’s with dogs.


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## Para Bellum (Jul 29, 2021)

Heath said:


> I can totally understand your point of view.  It’s real, and makes good sense.  That’s the first argument anyone’s given that wasn’t some nonsense talking point they heard or read and just regurgitated.  I believe every farmer or land owner should have every rite to deal with a nuisance animal whether it is native or not.  I also realize Middle and South Georgia have a different set of issues in regards to more private property and large production farms.  Out of curiosity, have you had many hog problems personally since you moved here?



I appreciate that.  Have yet to see any hog sign near me.  I’m right on the Fannin / Union line with CNF adjoining me.


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## Tio Hey Seuss (Jul 29, 2021)

Heath said:


> You didn’t start a war, it’s the same ol bickering by me and a few others.  I agree that your theory is plausible.  You could test it easily.  Ask the DNR to take the shackles off us and let us hunt them August 1 - May 31. Day and night by any method on all public land.  Or heck, let us hunt them between big game dates on WMA’s with dogs.



For being classified as invasive they (the state) sure don't act like they want to get rid of them. I could kill TONS more if they let me drop the hammer or loose an arrow after dark or when it's truly hot and they're concentrated and even more than that if they would let me run a dog on them more than they do. There's clearly no safety issue and I'll fight that battle any day. I let LOTS of hogs walk because of legality but it is what it is and when it comes to game laws I'll comply.

I pull the trigger if I see them during shooting light. Most of the time I carry them out. Either way they die cleaner than nature does them so I figure it's ethical seeing as they take resources from things from things that belong here. I'd off the horses on Cumberland if it was up to me but equines are another can of worms. Either way, I'll be out there with the double duce mag on Aug 15 because those mountain hogs are tasty/fun and my boys are growing!


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## ScarFoot (Jul 29, 2021)

I have been involved in dogging, trapping and around the clock shooting on some large agricultural areas and have seen hog numbers brought down to manageable levels that way, but you have to stay  on them.  DNR will never allow the public that kind of access on public land and the pigs will be forever present,


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## ddd-shooter (Jul 29, 2021)

Yeah, it's a weird thing. I hate that they take up so many resources. Especially with our crappy habitat. We don't have extra to spare. 

But, I do like the thought of having chances to kill them.


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## Heath (Jul 29, 2021)

Bingo!  Keep speaking the truth and I’ll have nothing to gripe about.  Better yet, start a war on the fools that stopped our timber stand management and I’ll buy into your cause.  I cant be on board with this eradication of hogs because they are way down on the list until we do some real wildlife management.  Until then, I’m gonna keep hunting and enjoying an animal that we grow very effectively under the circumstances that we’ve created or at least allowed to happen.


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## strothershwacker (Jul 30, 2021)

I'm not a very smart man but I love wild pork. I like hogs bettern' coyotes. And I like coyotes bettern' politicians. All 3 negatively effect our game management but at least the pigs make for good eatin'. I've broke down deer in the mountains and looks like the coyotes, coons and possums beat the bear to the remains. White oak acorns are king in the Georgia autumns.


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## chrislibby88 (Jul 30, 2021)

strothershwacker said:


> I'm not a very smart man but I love wild pork. I like hogs bettern' coyotes. And I like coyotes bettern' politicians. All 3 negatively effect our game management but at least the pigs make for good eatin'. I've broke down deer in the mountains and looks like the coyotes, coons and possums beat the bear to the remains. White oak acorns are king in the Georgia autumns.


Can we lobby for a politician season? Baiting allowed.


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## Thunder Head (Jul 30, 2021)

Heath,
I got news for you buddy. It may not be intentional. But you come off as a know it all jerk. You might be the smartest person on this forum when it comes to bears. It dosent matter to me cause I don't read what you say. Im not the only one either. So unless you change your ways. Your attempt to properly educate us, is falling on deaf ears.


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## Heath (Jul 30, 2021)

I’m sorry it comes across that way.  I definitely don’t know everything.  I would urge you to read everything whether you agree with them or not.


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## twoheartedale (Aug 4, 2021)

Heath said:


> Careful, you are gonna throw a wrench in people’s fairy tales.  I’ve had 3% of my hog carcasses touched by a bear since 2017.  That’s almost an exact number.  Granted,  I’m sure they get found eventually if the coyotes leave anything.



Guess they don't eat too many deer in the our mountains, but they like them in PA>
https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdo...agging-deer-road-pennsylvania-national-forest


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## rosewood (Aug 4, 2021)

twoheartedale said:


> Guess they don't eat too many deer in the our mountains, but they like them in PA>
> https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdo...agging-deer-road-pennsylvania-national-forest


Bear clears the road of a deer much faster than the buzzards can. Probably less busted windshields also, folks will slow for a bear and may not for a buzzard.


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## across the river (Aug 4, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Nice
> I would not kill any animal on public land and leave it for bait, first it's unethical, and second you would be guilty of wanton waste. I'm talking about the  leftover carcass, bones gut pile etc.



It is in no way unethical to kill a feral hog and leave it for a bear, for the buzzards, hermit crabs, coyotes, or any other animal. And you wouldn’t be guilty of anything but helping out the native wildlife.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 4, 2021)

Heath said:


> Well, let’s not get the thread deleted.  I like the spirited debate.  I can always learn something new.  How soon have you seen a bear take a hog or deer after you killed it?  I’ll explain what Ive seen one more time for you.  I’ve seen bear claim them overnight but Ive seen 90% +/- take a week or more before a bear found them (or at least ate on them).  I’ve only killed 33 hogs since 2017 so that’s not a huge sample size but it is what I’ve seen.  All of them except a couple were winter killed as I don’t kill many while it’s hot so it could definitely be different as weather warms as some people have attested to.
> I don’t agree with your interpretation of ethics.  By definition they aren’t your morals or principles if you can simply set them aside.  We’ve been killing hogs in the Southern Appalachian Mountains for nearly 100 years even though they were non native.  They also helped many families survive early on.  All my life they were classified as Wild Boar by the state of North Carolina and we had big game tags and bag limits here in the mountains to protect them.  Did you know that?  What changed?  They were a highly sought after big game animal in the Smokies during the entire first half and into the latter part of the 20th century.  Even into 2004 when I could kill one on this side of the state line and it was a feral hog and on the other it was still labeled a Wild Boar and I only had 2 tags.  Fill me in, I am truly interested in the information you have that might help me understand.  I’m just a poor dumb hillbilly after all.


And at the same time they were being protected by the state of NC, the GSMNP was spending a lot of money to kill over 10,000 of them because they were decimating the environment. The state finally saw the light and chose common sense over $.


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## Doug B. (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> It is in no way unethical to kill a feral hog and leave it for a bear, for the buzzards, hermit crabs, coyotes, or any other animal. And you wouldn’t be guilty of anything but helping out the native wildlife.


I agree to a point.  Some of us have been raised not to shoot something unless you are going to eat it.  If that is the case for you or anybody else then you can't get away from that.  It don't make anybody else right or wrong, that's just how some of us were brought up.  Also there may not have been as many wild hogs where these same people were brought up.  
If you or anybody else don't have a problem with shooting a wild hog and leaving it, that is fine.  You see them as overpopulated and a pest.  If somebody else looks at them as a game animal that they want to shoot for meat but will not leave one laying, that is fine. They have their upbringing that they can't get away from.   
Neither camp is wrong here.  It is just each individual's discretion.   But to some people it just wouldn't sit right.  Nothing wrong with that.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 4, 2021)

Doug B. said:


> I agree to a point.  Some of us have been raised not to shoot something unless you are going to eat it.  If that is the case for you or anybody else then you can't get away from that.  It don't make anybody else right or wrong, that's just how some of us were brought up.  Also there may not have been as many wild hogs where these same people were brought up.
> If you or anybody else don't have a problem with shooting a wild hog and leaving it, that is fine.  You see them as overpopulated and a pest.  If somebody else looks at them as a game animal that they want to shoot for meat but will not leave one laying, that is fine. They have their upbringing that they can't get away from.
> Neither camp is wrong here.  It is just each individual's discretion.   But to some people it just wouldn't sit right.  Nothing wrong with that.


Hogs are a scourge on the earth. They destroy everything. If I could mash a button and kill every feral hog in the US right now, I would mash it.


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## Doug B. (Aug 4, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Hogs are a scourge on the earth. They destroy everything. If I could mash a button and kill every feral hog in the US right now, I would mash it.


Nothing wrong there either.  They will tear up some real estate.  Some places where hogs are though, I guess because there isn't a large population of them there, they are not as bad as other places.


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## Para Bellum (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> It is in no way unethical to kill a feral hog and leave it for a bear, for the buzzards, hermit crabs, coyotes, or any other animal. And you wouldn’t be guilty of anything but helping out the native wildlife.


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 4, 2021)

The look says it all


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## Para Bellum (Aug 4, 2021)

mizzippi jb said:


> The look says it all



IKR?!


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## across the river (Aug 4, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> IKR?!


I’m still living in the ok’ noggin rent free I see.  I can seen you some new pictures if you want me to.  Seems the creativity is running low.


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## across the river (Aug 4, 2021)

Doug B. said:


> I agree to a point.  Some of us have been raised not to shoot something unless you are going to eat it.  If that is the case for you or anybody else then you can't get away from that.  It don't make anybody else right or wrong, that's just how some of us were brought up.  Also there may not have been as many wild hogs where these same people were brought up.
> If you or anybody else don't have a problem with shooting a wild hog and leaving it, that is fine.  You see them as overpopulated and a pest.  If somebody else looks at them as a game animal that they want to shoot for meat but will not leave one laying, that is fine. They have their upbringing that they can't get away from.
> Neither camp is wrong here.  It is just each individual's discretion.   But to some people it just wouldn't sit right.  Nothing wrong with that.



So when you dad and papa killed those rats in the barn with .22 rat shot or killed the  snake eating eggs in the hen house they are them?


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## Joe Brandon (Aug 4, 2021)

Yes! In fact I hunted over another members bear he couldn’t find at first, actually spooked a bear walking into the carcass. It was neat! Smelled the bear and the dead bear when I approached sounded like a truck crashing UP the ridge.


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## Para Bellum (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> I’m still living in the ok’ noggin rent free I see.  I can seen you some new pictures if you want me to.  Seems the creativity is running low.



What?


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## Para Bellum (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> So when you dad and papa killed those rats in the barn with .22 rat shot or killed the  snake eating eggs in the hen house they are them?



What?


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## Para Bellum (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> So when you dad and papa killed those rats in the barn with .22 rat shot or killed the  snake eating eggs in the hen house they are them?



Snake eating eggs he said.  Everyone be careful.  Don’t wanna be around when Grandma starts scrambling those bad boys up!


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## Doug B. (Aug 4, 2021)

across the river said:


> So when you dad and papa killed those rats in the barn with .22 rat shot or killed the  snake eating eggs in the hen house they are them?


My point is that everybody has an opinion and that don't make them wrong.  You come across like everybody else is stupid and you are the only one that knows anything.  I value everybody else's opinions and thoughts more than that.


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 5, 2021)

across the river said:


> I’m still living in the ok’ noggin rent free I see.  I can seen you some new pictures if you want me to.  Seems the creativity is running low.


There's no need for new pics. That one describes the situation perfectly.  Over and over and over and over


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## rosewood (Aug 5, 2021)

Kind of thinking with animals.  If you are killing just because you like to see things die, then there may be a problem.  We should respect all life.  If you are killing them because you plan on eating them or because they are a nuisance to either your livelihood or other animals, then letting them lie isn't so much of a ethical problem.

Also, I have killed some hogs that were just plain rank, not edible.  Ain't gonna force myself to eat something that taste awful.  Scavengers gotta eat also.

Rosewood


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## across the river (Aug 5, 2021)

mizzippi jb said:


> There's no need for new pics. That one describes the situation perfectly.  Over and over and over and over


Yes it does.  I completely agree.  We also know which of those two is the smartest.  No question on that here either.  It would just be nice to mix it up a bit, you know.


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## across the river (Aug 5, 2021)

Doug B. said:


> My point is that everybody has an opinion and that don't make them wrong.  You come across like everybody else is stupid and you are the only one that knows anything.  I value everybody else's opinions and thoughts more than that.


You threw the”people are raised differently” out there, not me.  I’m am 100% certain that growing up someone in your family killed a pest that they didn’t eat.  A feral hog is a pest, no different that rats, army worms, or Asian carp.  The people who say they wouldn’t kill them without eating them have never really had to deal with them.


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## ScarFoot (Aug 5, 2021)

Across the river- You need to quit your whining, I said "unethical" in regards to killing hogs and letting lay on public land because there are people who enjoy hunting them and eating them on public land and public land is for all of us to enjoy, if you think hunters with rifles and bows are gonna put a dent in hog populations in North Georgia You have your head stuck somewhere, and it's not in the clouds!  And you don't know anything about wild swine. Kill them if you want to, let them lay if you want to. I assure you whatever you do will make no difference in their population on public land.


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## rosewood (Aug 5, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Across the river- You need to quit your whining, I said "unethical" in regards to killing hogs and letting lay on public land because there are people who enjoy hunting them and eating them on public land and public land is for all of us to enjoy.



This is a good point, if you are hunting on public land, you shouldn't kill anything you are not going to take home.  Private land is a different story.

Rosewood


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 5, 2021)

across the river said:


> Yes it does.  I completely agree.  We also know which of those two is the smartest.  No question on that here either.  It would just be nice to mix it up a bit, you know.


It's really all about which one thinks and acts like he's the smartest, but in the real world he's the most disliked guy around.  High horse and all ya know


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## ddd-shooter (Aug 5, 2021)

Good grief...


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## Christian hughey (Aug 5, 2021)

ScarFoot said:


> Any of you guys ever watched/checked  your deer or hog Carcasses after a kill? For a few days? How long did it take for bears to find it? Just curious?


I cleaned a mountain buck last year and didn't make it back for the evening hunt that day but come back to hunt over the gut pile the next morning and it was gone completely.


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## Raylander (Aug 5, 2021)

Hogs are the Democrats of the woods. They run around gobbling up the resources, having lots of babies, destroying property, and overall just messing stuff up for everyone and everything. Just like Democrats, we’re stuck with them too…


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## Raylander (Aug 5, 2021)

Christian hughey said:


> come back to hunt over the gut pile the next morning and it was gone completely.



That’s pretty well my experience with every gut pile I’ve ever created. Regardless of where I left it. Everything eats guts, except us..


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 5, 2021)

Raylander said:


> That’s pretty well my experience with every gut pile I’ve ever created. Regardless of where I left it. Everything eats guts, except us..


Well..... Chitlins.  For the aforementioned political party


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## Tio Hey Seuss (Aug 7, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Hogs are a scourge on the earth. They destroy everything. If I could mash a button and kill every feral hog in the US right now, I would mash it.



While I tend to agree and hogs get the trigger anytime I see one, you could make the argument that you and I would not exist here today if not for the fact that invasive pigs fed our European ancestors on their journeys to unknown lands. We owe as much to pigs as we do germs and steel.


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## Tio Hey Seuss (Aug 7, 2021)

Raylander said:


> Hogs are the Democrats of the woods. They run around gobbling up the resources, having lots of babies, destroying property, and overall just messing stuff up for everyone and everything. Just like Democrats, we’re stuck with them too…


Are you actually slow enough to think Republicans act differently? They're all the same.


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## Raylander (Aug 7, 2021)

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Are you actually slow enough to think Republicans act differently? They're all the same.



Imaginary words make folks look slow..

I didn’t say anything about Republicans..


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## Tio Hey Seuss (Aug 7, 2021)

Raylander said:


> Imaginary words make folks look slow..
> 
> I didn’t say anything about Republicans..


----------



## dawg (Aug 7, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> You’re definitely not dumb.  And I’m guessing not poor.  And I’m no expert on any of the above.  I am simply a retired field forester with a science background.  Unfortunately, despite their mystique and history, I’m prejudice and forced to lump feral pigs in with the kudzus, privets and wisterias of the southeast.   Before I moved to the mountains, I lived on 34 acres in Taliaferro County on the Little River drainage.  The first year I lived there, I killed 52 hogs.  The next year, I killed 38 and so on and so on.  They destroyed everything I was proud of from row crops to simple food plots.  The mystique wore off quick.  I’m glad they entertained and fed folks and families in the mountains but I’m a simple man and simply put, I hate them and bottom line, they’re not supposed to be here.  They take away from things that do belong here.  So, in my personal opinion, shooting one and letting it lay in hopes of taking a native game animal is fine.  And the change in tone is refreshing and greatly appreciated.  I’ll duck out of y’all’s conversation now and hope good bears for everyone this season.  I might even take one myself.


I have hunted in Taliaferro for close to 20 years close to the Little river drainage. It is crazy how many feral hogs run this river! These things destroy everything in this area, EVERYTHING


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## Para Bellum (Aug 7, 2021)

dawg said:


> I have hunted in Taliaferro for close to 20 years close to the Little river drainage. It is crazy how many feral hogs run this river! These things destroy everything in this area, EVERYTHING



When the rivers rises, they go high.  When it drops, they stay low.  Reedy Creek watershed is eat up with them.


----------

