# Question for Atheists



## dexrusjak (Sep 29, 2010)

Why do so many otherwise intelligent people believe in fairy tales?  Take my mother for example.  When she was in high school, she was valedictorian and made a 1600 on the SAT (a perfect score).  She graduated from UGA in three years, got a Master's degree and Ph.D.  She taught high school for many years and then college before retiring.  She is brilliant, level-headed, extremely well-read, and a devout evangelical.  She believes that the Bible is the literal, perfect word of god.  She believes in Heaven and He!!.  She believes in the talking snake, the flood, and the story of Jonah.  She believes Jesus is coming back soon.  And she's only one example of many. I just don't get it.  

Are people just THAT scared and brainwashed?  I mean, I was scared and brainwashed too at one point, but I eventually woke up.  I just don't get it.

(Christians, I'm sure you would respond to my question by claiming that so many intelligent people believe because it is true, because of the Holy Spirit, because the fool has said in his heart...etc., etc.  Please leave this one alone.  I want to hear from fellow nonbelievers on this one.  Thanks.)


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## earl (Sep 29, 2010)

You may get more response by not limiting this to atheists. There are very few true atheists . There may be 2 or 3 here.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 29, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Are people just THAT scared and brainwashed?



For this to be the case it would mean that devoutly religious folks are by and large dishonest.  That may be the case of course.  In case you haven't seen "Religulous" the hypothesis there is that such people are effectively mentally ill.  I don't know what the answer is but it's one of the questions I struggled with for a lot of my life.  She may just be hedging her bets and keeping up an example that you're supposed to be following.  Bless her heart.


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## TTom (Sep 29, 2010)

Not an Atheist here but I'm going to give you an answer anyway since I slip through a crack in your requirements.

Imagine the enormity of knowing in your heart that there is something more. Then imagine what it would be like to try to take in all the information that might be relevant, filter it all down and develop your own individual set of beliefs about God the Universe and Everything. Sounds more like a life's worth of work than something you do in your spare time.

People take the shortcut, same way they take the shortcuts elsewhere in life.


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## ambush80 (Sep 29, 2010)

TTom said:


> Not an Atheist here but I'm going to give you an answer anyway since I slip through a crack in your requirements.
> 
> Imagine the enormity of knowing in your heart that there is something more. Then imagine what it would be like to try to take in all the information that might be relevant, filter it all down and develop your own individual set of beliefs about God the Universe and Everything. Sounds more like a life's worth of work than something you do in your spare time.
> 
> People take the shortcut, same way they take the shortcuts elsewhere in life.



I hear that.  A "Ready Guide".  

My mother is the same way.  When I ask her why she picked the God of the Bible to worship instead of another pre-fab deity, she says "He's the one I'm most familiar with."

Yes, "IT" is enormous.  But I think that we are capable of trying to understand "IT"  to the best of our abilities.  We have faculties at our disposal that can help us make sense of things the best we can.  Maybe people that choose a God explanation have found that that is the best they can do with what they've got.

You wanna see how superstition works to subvert reason?  Look at the "Paranormal" thread in the SF.

Fascinating stuff.


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## Allen17 (Sep 29, 2010)




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## ambush80 (Sep 29, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Why do so many otherwise intelligent people believe in fairy tales?  Take my mother for example.  When she was in high school, she was valedictorian and made a 1600 on the SAT (a perfect score).  She graduated from UGA in three years, got a Master's degree and Ph.D.  She taught high school for many years and then college before retiring.  She is brilliant, level-headed, extremely well-read, and a devout evangelical.  She believes that the Bible is the literal, perfect word of god.  She believes in Heaven and He!!.  She believes in the talking snake, the flood, and the story of Jonah.  She believes Jesus is coming back soon.  And she's only one example of many. I just don't get it.
> 
> Are people just THAT scared and brainwashed?  I mean, I was scared and brainwashed too at one point, but I eventually woke up.  I just don't get it.
> 
> (Christians, I'm sure you would respond to my question by claiming that so many intelligent people believe because it is true, because of the Holy Spirit, because the fool has said in his heart...etc., etc.  Please leave this one alone.  I want to hear from fellow nonbelievers on this one.  Thanks.)



I think people are scared.  But now that I don't believe in ghosties (holy ones included) and goblins, I have one less thing to be scared of.

Religious indoctrination starts early.

It confounds me as well when intelligent people believe that the myths of their religions actually happened.  What's even stranger is that people will read another religion's mythology and point out how silly it is while insisting that their own ridiculous fables are true.


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## pnome (Oct 1, 2010)

You can have all of the intelligence required to become a nuclear physicist and still believe that if you make a bomb to kill the infidels, you'll be rewarded with virgins in paradise.

I don't know dex.  I think it's just a matter of never taking the opportunity to rationally question your beliefs.  When I was a believer, it was almost automatic to me.   If everyone around you believes it too, or something similar, it's easy to accept it as fact.


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## applejuice (Oct 1, 2010)

"The most erroneous stories are those we think we know best —
and therefore never scrutinize or question."
— Stephen Jay Gould


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## pine nut (Oct 3, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Why do so many otherwise intelligent people believe in fairy tales?  Take my mother for example.  When she was in high school, she was valedictorian and made a 1600 on the SAT (a perfect score).  She graduated from UGA in three years, got a Master's degree and Ph.D.  She taught high school for many years and then college before retiring.  She is brilliant, level-headed, extremely well-read, and a devout evangelical.  She believes that the Bible is the literal, perfect word of god.  She believes in Heaven and He!!.  She believes in the talking snake, the flood, and the story of Jonah.  She believes Jesus is coming back soon.  And she's only one example of many. I just don't get it.
> 
> Are people just THAT scared and brainwashed?  I mean, I was scared and brainwashed too at one point, but I eventually woke up.  I just don't get it.
> 
> (Christians, I'm sure you would respond to my question by claiming that so many intelligent people believe because it is true, because of the Holy Spirit, because the fool has said in his heart...etc., etc.  Please leave this one alone.  I want to hear from fellow nonbelievers on this one.  Thanks.)



Your mother understands this one verse in the bible and you do not.  Read it and think on it.  God will make it clear to you.  Your answer lies not in the council of the unbelievers.

Proverbs Chapter 1 verse 7:
" The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

 I would suggest reading a book by Max Lucado named "In the Eye of the Storm". Chapters 17 and 26 will also help to answer your questions.  You will have to be still to know that He is God!  You are obviously frustrated and seeking answers.  He will make Himself known to you and and you will be given wisdom and nderstanding.  What you do then is still up to you.  God bless you.  Those two chapters answered for me questions I struggled with for a long time.


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## Furious (Oct 3, 2010)

Brainwashed is brainwashed. It may be brainwashing by religious beliefs or it may be someone who was captured by enemy forces and now loves their captors and wants to fight on their side.             
 Seeing radical religions should be an eye opener for all other religions. Someone can be brainwashed into believing that he will be rewarded for mass murder/suicide. THATS CRAZY....hmmm "crazy"..."brainwashed"  a slippery slope there. Just ask Eric Rudolph ,Timothy Mcveigh, David Corresh, etc etc etc.
 The human brain is a very complicated thing. Some people are more susceptible than others. Religion is the most common form of brainwashing because it starts from the time you are born. What complicates this more is the fact that others who are already brainwashed will shun you, outcast you if you dont "follow the crowd".
 There are ALOT of intelligent people sitting in church on sunday who dont belive or have serious doubt. They dont speak up because they fear of being outcast from family, friends and community.
 Ever walk through the woods by yourself at night? Those noises are creepy, even scary. This is a prime example of being brainwashed to a certain extent. If you had never heard a scary story or seen a scary movie then the darkness wouldnt bother you a bit. This could very well be used as an analogy for religion. The darkness is death and the brainwashed are just scared of it because thats what has been taught to us since the day we were born. Religion is a way to cope with that fear of death. Many people NEED this. Who are we to deny it? 
 People get mad and offended when their beliefs are questioned. Why? Because they need confirmation that what they belief is right. That to me says that they have doubt. The same reason that religious people want to convert others. If they can convert you then they must be right in their mind. As an Atheist I simple dont care what you believe or dont. I dont go around passing out cards telling you how your wasting your life. I dont tell Christians (or others) that they are wrong. I certainly dont use scare tactics telling you that you will burn in a pit of fire if you dont follow my beliefs. I dont go to the Christian forums telling them why they are all wrong. I simply dont care. I usually dont even bother with threads like this but the OP asked a question that I thought I could shed some light on.


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## Nicodemus (Oct 3, 2010)

Furious said:


> Brainwashed is brainwashed. It may be brainwashing by religious beliefs or it may be someone who was captured by enemy forces and now loves their captors and wants to fight on their side.
> Seeing radical religions should be an eye opener for all other religions. Someone can be brainwashed into believing that he will be rewarded for mass murder/suicide. THATS CRAZY....hmmm "crazy"..."brainwashed"  a slippery slope there. Just ask Eric Rudolph ,Timothy Mcveigh, David Corresh, etc etc etc.
> The human brain is a very complicated thing. Some people are more susceptible than others. Religion is the most common form of brainwashing because it starts from the time you are born. What complicates this more is the fact that others who are already brainwashed will shun you, outcast you if you dont "follow the crowd".
> There are ALOT of intelligent people sitting in church on sunday who dont belive or have serious doubt. They dont speak up because they fear of being outcast from family, friends and community.
> ...







I can respect your thoughts on what I highlighted in red. You are a better man than those athiests who are just here to cause trouble for the Christian members of this forum, and make pests and a nuisance of themselves.


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## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would you consider a Christian who comes to an Atheist section and spouts Bible silliness to be in the same league?


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## Nicodemus (Oct 3, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Would you consider a Christian who comes to an Atheist section and spouts Bible silliness to be in the same league?



No, I would not.


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## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> No, I would not.



Because of a bias?


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## Nicodemus (Oct 3, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Because of a bias?





No, because it is a good Christians job to spread the word. Why should a true athiest trouble himself to worry about what goes on with Christians. Unless it is to just cause trouble for them?

And before you ask, or accuse, I am a Christian, but not a good Christian. Because I won`t preach to you or try to get you to convert, and because I don`t care what you do, or what your thoughts are. I won`t turn the other cheek either.


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## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> No, because it is a good Christians job to spread the word. Why should a true athiest trouble himself to worry about what goes on with Christians. Unless it is to just cause trouble for them?
> 
> And before you ask, or accuse, I am a Christian, but not a good Christian. Because I won`t preach to you or try to get you to convert, and because I don`t care what you do, or what your thoughts are. I won`t turn the other cheek either.



In my opinion, this makes you a GOOD Christian.  Wish there were more like you.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> No, because it is a good Christians job to spread the word. Why should a true athiest trouble himself to worry about what goes on with Christians. Unless it is to just cause trouble for them?



Maybe there are some who just want to understand some things and in order to do that come on here and ask questions.   It's not the atheist's fault that such questions cause discomfort for Christians.  

I would also like to highlight the odd notion of a Christian posting in a thread "Question for Atheists" in the "Atheists/Agnostics/Apologetics" forum to describe atheists going out of their ways to cause trouble.   Are you just here to cause trouble for such people?


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## Nicodemus (Oct 3, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Maybe there are some who just want to understand some things and in order to do that come on here and ask questions.   It's not the atheist's fault that such questions cause discomfort for Christians.
> 
> I would also like to highlight the odd notion of a Christian posting in a thread "Question for Atheists" in the "Atheists/Agnostics/Apologetics" forum to describe atheists going out of their ways to cause trouble.   Are you just here to cause trouble for such people?[/QUOTE]
> 
> I am not.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I am not.



Okay.  That's why I asked you instead of jumping the gun.  Glad that's cleared up!


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## pine nut (Oct 4, 2010)

Furious said:


> Brainwashed is brainwashed. It may be brainwashing by religious beliefs or it may be someone who was captured by enemy forces and now loves their captors and wants to fight on their side.
> Seeing radical religions should be an eye opener for all other religions. Someone can be brainwashed into believing that he will be rewarded for mass murder/suicide. THATS CRAZY....hmmm "crazy"..."brainwashed"  a slippery slope there. Just ask Eric Rudolph ,Timothy Mcveigh, David Corresh, etc etc etc.
> The human brain is a very complicated thing. Some people are more susceptible than others. Religion is the most common form of brainwashing because it starts from the time you are born. What complicates this more is the fact that others who are already brainwashed will shun you, outcast you if you dont "follow the crowd".
> There are ALOT of intelligent people sitting in church on sunday who dont belive or have serious doubt. They dont speak up because they fear of being outcast from family, friends and community.
> ...



I am a Christian and I agree with all you have said!  I do think however it works both ways and for atheists and agonstics as well!  I will try to explain:
I do not think as intelligent as some people are, that we can begin to comprehend how intelligent God is!  A god that is not bound by time, and can see the future and see the silly arguments we as men put forth to prove we are intelligent thinkers and have it all figured out.  He is quite capable of confounding the wise among us!  He is in no way bound by our pitiful thoughts of how things began.  Do I believe in fossils? Yes! Does this mean the creation story is only that, a story?  I don't really know.  Do I believe that a God who can see our doubt far into the future is incapable of laying a trail that can be confusing to us.  No I don't!  Why would He do it? Why wouldn't he make it easy and plain for all to see?  Do you have children, and does that work for you in teaching them?   Sometimes and sometimes not.
God is way smarter than you and me.  His way and to believe requires a leap of faith and those who know this have likely had a personal encounter with God.  I agree with Nick and I won't try to shove it done anyone's throat, and I am first among sinners, but when I read the posts here I see and hear people who are searching for the truth!  That is what I see.  I see people who have asked the same questions I myself have asked, and I will submit to you that a person who has grown up with this or that faith or demomination and has never asked those hard questions and has never examined their "religion" really doesn't have one.
 I have often wondered why God created man.  My belief is He did it for entertainment, and for fellowship.  He could have made us perfect, so why did he make us as we are?  I believe it is so we could recognize Him and love Him and fellowship with Him!  Much like us wanting children.  We would be a very boring toy without free will to do as we please!  I could have made my child do anyting I requested when he was little, but I tried to teach him what was good and accepted behavior.  I have been thrilled to see him grow into manhood, become a father and love his children.  I raise my dogs to be obedient, but I raised my children to grow and think for themslves and to leave the nest.  I am very proud that they are good responsible adults.  They did right things because of teaching and example not from coersion.   They love me!   My car is a nice machine and has no choice ( other than the law of the perversion of inanimate objects) than to obey my bidding.  My children are not boring ...my car either but I don't fellowship with my car!  I hope you can see what I mean.   I think God gets His joy with us when we see through all the "stuff" and recognize that He is!  The bible is how he reveals Himself to us as something or rather somebody we should be mindful of as well as seek out for our needs and guideance.  I know how trite this must sound, but being trite doesn't mean it isn't true.  
I believe God has a plan that is way bigger than we can imagine for the world and for all of us a plan for our lives.  I again encourage anyone who is seeking to discover God to read the book by Max Lucado titled "In the Eye of the Storm".  you have nothing to lose by doing so.  Read the chapter about Job number 17 "He Speaks Through the Storm" I learned there that God is never angry with an honest seeker, and then read chapter 26 "The Choice".  Close your mind's eye while you read the latter and imagine a God that capable and loving!
Just as Christian boards exist so does this one, because people want to seek out others that think the same in order to lend strength to their position and beliefs.  There is strength in numbers!  One of my favorite sayings is " If 50 million people believe in a bad idea, it is still a bad idea!", and I can see how that statement might be used to fight for either side here.  Christians are not perfect, just forgiven.  I will now bow out.  I hope I have been supportive and edifying as well as respectful.
Bill


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## ambush80 (Oct 4, 2010)

pine nut said:


> I am a Christian and I agree with all you have said!  I do think however it works both ways and for atheists and agonstics as well!  I will try to explain:
> I do not think as intelligent as some people are, that we can begin to comprehend how intelligent God is!



Indeed, the concept of a God requires a fundamental understanding that you cannot understand him.

Yet, here you try to explain him and his motives:




pine nut said:


> A god that is not bound by time, and can see the future and see the silly arguments we as men put forth to prove we are intelligent thinkers and have it all figured out.  He is quite capable of confounding the wise among us!  He is in no way bound by our pitiful thoughts of how things began.  Do I believe in fossils? Yes! Does this mean the creation story is only that, a story?  I don't really know.  Do I believe that a God who can see our doubt far into the future is incapable of laying a trail that can be confusing to us.  No I don't!  Why would He do it? Why wouldn't he make it easy and plain for all to see?  Do you have children, and does that work for you in teaching them?   Sometimes and sometimes not.







pine nut said:


> God is way smarter than you and me.



Yes. He would have to be, lest he be not a God. 

But, here again you seem to be able to comprehend his motives and nature completely:




pine nut said:


> His way and to believe requires a leap of faith and those who know this have likely had a personal encounter with God.  I agree with Nick and I won't try to shove it done anyone's throat, and I am first among sinners, but when I read the posts here I see and hear people who are searching for the truth!  That is what I see.  I see people who have asked the same questions I myself have asked, and I will submit to you that a person who has grown up with this or that faith or demomination and has never asked those hard questions and has never examined their "religion" really doesn't have one.
> I have often wondered why God created man.  My belief is He did it for entertainment, and for fellowship.  He could have made us perfect, so why did he make us as we are?  I believe it is so we could recognize Him and love Him and fellowship with Him!  Much like us wanting children.  We would be a very boring toy without free will to do as we please!  I could have made my child do anyting I requested when he was little, but I tried to teach him what was good and accepted behavior.  I have been thrilled to see him grow into manhood, become a father and love his children.  I raise my dogs to be obedient, but I raised my children to grow and think for themslves and to leave the nest.  I am very proud that they are good responsible adults.  They did right things because of teaching and example not from coersion.   They love me!   My car is a nice machine and has no choice ( other than the law of the perversion of inanimate objects) than to obey my bidding.  My children are not boring ...my car either but I don't fellowship with my car!  I hope you can see what I mean.   I think God gets His joy with us when we see through all the "stuff" and recognize that He is!  The bible is how he reveals Himself to us as something or rather somebody we should be mindful of as well as seek out for our needs and guideance.  I know how trite this must sound, but being trite doesn't mean it isn't true.




What I gather is that you have ideas about how God operates, a God that you cannot possibly understand and that you base it on the writings of ancient Middle Eastern men, who were, by definition, also incapable of understanding God.  Is that about right?





pine nut said:


> I believe God has a plan that is way bigger than we can imagine for the world and for all of us a plan for our lives.



Yet again, you believe that you are "in the know" about his motives.




pine nut said:


> I again encourage anyone who is seeking to discover God to read the book by Max Lucado titled "In the Eye of the Storm".  you have nothing to lose by doing so.  Read the chapter about Job number 17 "He Speaks Through the Storm" I learned there that God is never angry with an honest seeker, and then read chapter 26 "The Choice".  Close your mind's eye while you read the latter and imagine a God that capable and loving!



Because Max has a direct line to God?




pine nut said:


> Just as Christian boards exist so does this one, because people want to seek out others that think the same in order to lend strength to their position and beliefs.  There is strength in numbers!  One of my favorite sayings is " If 50 million people believe in a bad idea, it is still a bad idea!", and I can see how that statement might be used to fight for either side here.  Christians are not perfect, just forgiven.  I will now bow out.  I hope I have been supportive and edifying as well as respectful.
> Bill



People in this forum don't need a slap on the back and an AMEN!  They sort things out best they can while looking to others for some useful info or advice.


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## pine nut (Oct 4, 2010)

The bible says "Some won't believe though they be raised from the dead".  That is your right. Didn't know I was trying to slap you on the back, and didn't mean to step on your toes.  God really doesn't need my help and His store house is full as usual. Neither does He owe any man anything.   If you are comfortable in your position and wish no input from someone such as me so be it.  This was my first visit here, and I will trouble you no more.


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## atlashunter (Jan 3, 2011)

To the OP, I'm sure there are a number of reasons but the biggest has to be fear. Fear of mortality, fear of eternal burning, fear of rejection from family and friends. It takes a great deal of courage to overcome those fears. Most people never even come close to it. And most people I think honestly don't really give these questions much thought. I've known many people who were raised to believe certain things and that is what they believe and that is that. They are comfortable in their beliefs and don't want others challenging them (the creation of this forum is proof enough of that) much less challenging themselves.

I think there are many believers who really even if confronted with irrefutable proof that their beliefs weren't true would still cling to them for the comfort they bring. In short, given the choice between a comforting lie or a harsh reality many will choose the lie.


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## ambush80 (Jan 3, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> To the OP, I'm sure there are a number of reasons but the biggest has to be fear. Fear of mortality, fear of eternal burning, fear of rejection from family and friends. It takes a great deal of courage to overcome those fears. Most people never even come close to it. And most people I think honestly don't really give these questions much thought. I've known many people who were raised to believe certain things and that is what they believe and that is that. They are comfortable in their beliefs and don't want others challenging them (the creation of this forum is proof enough of that) much less challenging themselves.
> 
> I think there are many believers who really even if confronted with irrefutable proof that their beliefs weren't true would still cling to them for the comfort they bring. In short, given the choice between a comforting lie or a harsh reality many will choose the lie.



Blue pill Red pill?

I think that adopting a belief system that separates good from evil is overly simplistic and ineffective for practical use.   It certainly doesn't describe the workings of the World that I've observed.  Speaking to Christianity specifically, I see in the Bible stories many instances where God acts in a way that He himself would describe as evil yet believers maintain that everything he does is only good.  I get it, by the way, I really do.  "He" doesn't have to follow that same rules as "we" do.  Fair enough.  

One of my favorite paradoxes is: Who created Satan?  Or who allows him to practice his mischief?  I know the answer but I find the hoop jumping explanations interesting.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello Dex, let me try and describe this as if I were a neutral party. Not trying to prove the truthfullness but the attractiveness, why intelligent people find peace in their religious beliefs. I think that people come to religion on the bases of contemplating life, seeing people's life come to an end and wondering, is this all. Looking foward seems like a lifetime, looking backwards, like life is short.  I think many people have thoughts or hopes or simply just wondering if there is eternity. This thought most likely came from the bible. Another thing that surely all ponder is the magnificance of creation. Or whatever one would call it. To ponder the planets and galaxys is rather "awe" inspiring. So for some but not all, they ponder the existance of a creator or "God". So for the majority, they adopt the dominate religion of the land or go to their local church regardless of what belief system that they subscribe to and are taught those ways which eventually they fight for as though it is truth. Christianity is attractive in this sense over others because; let me give an example, in Jesus's day "religion" was about "who was good enough" and the religious of that day had made up rules that hardly no one could live up to. Sound familar? While some had displayed how righteous they were, is this sounding even more familar, others flocked to the desert cause they heard that a man named John was baptizing people for the forgiveness of sins. They realized they could not live up to the standards that the religious had set, making them feel like "sinners" and upon hearing of another way, a gospel or good news, they traveled to get baptized by John. So, I apoligize that it sounds as if I am preaching. I speak of this trying to explain the attractiveness of Christianity. The problem lies in how terrible people represent Christianity. Most of what you see have become worse than the "religious" that originally drove those to the desert in the first place. Of course, before they jump in claiming there is much more to Christianity, let me say there is but I think I made my point as to why people are attracted to the hope that is in the gospel of Jesus. With that being said, a good discussion would be "why do people, such as your mom, feel like sinners, in need of a savior?


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## ambush80 (Jan 3, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Dex, let me try and describe this as if I were a neutral party. Not trying to prove the truthfullness but the attractiveness, why intelligent people find peace in their religious beliefs. I think that people come to religion on the bases of contemplating life, seeing people's life come to an end and wondering, is this all. Looking foward seems like a lifetime, looking backwards, like life is short.  I think many people have thoughts or hopes or simply just wondering if there is eternity. This thought most likely came from the bible. Another thing that surely all ponder is the magnificance of creation. Or whatever one would call it. To ponder the planets and galaxys is rather "awe" inspiring. So for some but not all, they ponder the existance of a creator or "God". So for the majority, they adopt the dominate religion of the land or go to their local church regardless of what belief system that they subscribe to and are taught those ways which eventually they fight for as though it is truth. Christianity is attractive in this sense over others because; let me give an example, in Jesus's day "religion" was about "who was good enough" and the religious of that day had made up rules that hardly no one could live up to. Sound familar? While some had displayed how righteous they were, is this sounding even more familar, others flocked to the desert cause they heard that a man named John was baptizing people for the forgiveness of sins. They realized they could not live up to the standards that the religious had set, making them feel like "sinners" and upon hearing of another way, a gospel or good news, they traveled to get baptized by John. So, I apoligize that it sounds as if I am preaching. I speak of this trying to explain the attractiveness of Christianity. The problem lies in how terrible people represent Christianity. Most of what you see have become worse than the "religious" that originally drove those to the desert in the first place. Of course, before they jump in claiming there is much more to Christianity, let me say there is but I think I made my point as to why people are attracted to the hope that is in the gospel of Jesus. With that being said, a good discussion would be "why do people, such as your mom, feel like sinners, in need of a savior?



First, let me say that I appreciate your trying to be "neutral".  

To the portion in blue:  Because they were exposed to the notion at an early age; indoctrinated.  I, too, was told that I was born a sinner and that I deserved to burn eternally in a lake of fire.  What a terrible thing to tell a child.  I think I was 6 or so.  Shame on you Sunday School teacher, wherever you are.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 3, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> First, let me say that I appreciate your trying to be "neutral".
> 
> To the portion in blue:  Because they were exposed to the notion at an early age; indoctrinated.  I, too, was told that I was born a sinner and that I deserved to burn eternally in a lake of fire.  What a terrible thing to tell a child.  I think I was 6 or so.  Shame on you Sunday School teacher, wherever you are.


 I thought I might better explain it from a neutral position, although you are familiar with my beliefs. Speaking of Sunday school, I'm not sure how to go about deprograming my kids as to all the errors they have been taught in sunday school.


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## ambush80 (Jan 3, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> I thought I might better explain it from a neutral position, although you are familiar with my beliefs. Speaking of Sunday school, I'm not sure how to go about deprograming my kids as to all the errors they have been taught in sunday school.



Encourage them to keep learning.  Teach them how to think critically.  They ought to eventually see through the nonsense on their own.


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