# Christmas



## VisionCasting (Dec 20, 2011)

Since my Thanksgiving thread was so popular, I just wanted to take this opportunity to wish all you atheists and agnostics a Merry Christmas.  

Jesus is the reason for the season.  

(Now boys, this is how you hunt over bait)


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## stringmusic (Dec 20, 2011)

Good thread! I'll start a new years thread after this one goes 3 pages. 

Merry Christmas fellas


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## TheBishop (Dec 20, 2011)

Merry Christmas to you guys too.

Its amazing isn't it though?  The similarities between christmas and christianity?  Both filled with myths, legends, and outright fabrications. Both main characters are magical beings that perform impossible feats.  Both unverifiable,even though we have thousands of books on them in varying cultures and languages.  But only one we are expected to believe was real.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 20, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Merry Christmas to you guys too.
> 
> Its amazing isn't it though?  The similarities between christmas and christianity?  Both filled with myths, legends, and outright fabrications. Both main characters are magical beings that perform impossible feats.  Both unverifiable,even though we have thousands of books on them in varying cultures and languages.  But only one we are expected to believe was real.



Lol    I thought the main characters of Christmas and Christianity were the same guy?        Was Jesus a myth?  lol

Oh yeah...almost forgot....

Merry Christmas to all of you, and a Happy, Blessed 2012.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 20, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Merry Christmas to you guys too.
> 
> Its amazing isn't it though?  The similarities between christmas and christianity?



Wait, you mean to tell me there are similarities between CHRISTmas and CHRISTianity?  That's a news flash, thanks.  Somewhere there is a rocket company seeking your scientific observation skills.  

PS - Same main character in both.  That might be part of the problem.  Somehow you mistook the fat jolly elf for the Big Guy.  Common mistake.   Carry on.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 20, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Somehow you mistook the fat jolly elf for the Big Guy.  Common mistake.   Carry on.



      How true


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## TheBishop (Dec 20, 2011)

Who said I was talking about santa? It matters not who, anyways, just as long as you don't deny the similarities.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 20, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Both main characters are magical beings that perform impossible feats.



IMO, I think it's obvious you were referring to Santa Claus.  

Obviously referring to two seperate individuals.   lol


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## bullethead (Dec 20, 2011)

Merry Christmas everyone.

When was Jesus born?


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## VisionCasting (Dec 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> 
> When was Jesus born?



On his birthday?


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## bullethead (Dec 20, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> On his birthday?



Hang in there, your special.


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## mtnwoman (Dec 20, 2011)

Merry Christmas, y'all. I love each and everyone of you! I hope you get blessed, have peace and joy and are able to spend time with your loved ones, in this season.

With Much Love,
Annie


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## mtnwoman (Dec 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> 
> When was Jesus born?



Just in the 'nick' of time...no pun intended...lol.

Santa Claus is a gift giver, just like the wisemen, just like Christ.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Hang in there, your special.



My special what?

Oh, you meant "you're".

Thanks.  I needed that.


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## bullethead (Dec 20, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> My special what?
> 
> Oh, you meant "you're".
> 
> Thanks.  I needed that.



You be ams welcum. Sumtimes I type lyke I text.


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## TTom (Dec 20, 2011)

And  Yule Tide Blessings and a Happy Solstice to you VisionCastings.


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## Six million dollar ham (Dec 20, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> (Now boys, this is how you hunt over bait)



How mature.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> On his birthday?





You're good.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> How mature.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> Merry Christmas, y'all. I love each and everyone of you! I hope you get blessed, have peace and joy and are able to spend time with your loved ones, in this season.
> 
> With Much Love,
> Annie


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm



The exact date of the birth of Christ is of no importance.


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> The exact date of the birth of Christ is of no importance.



Just sharing some info. There are not many people that know Dec. 25 is not the exact date of his birth.

Exact information is certainly something that is of no importance in religion. That I will agree 100%.


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

I always wondered why we know every detail about the day Jesus was born except the DAY Jesus was born.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I always wondered why we know every detail about the day Jesus was born except the DAY Jesus was born.



Last year my wife and I celebrated Valentines Day on Saturday 12th instead of Monday 14th.  

Does that mean I don't love her?


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I always wondered why we know every detail about the day Jesus was born except the DAY Jesus was born.



Because the details are more important.


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## JB0704 (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Does that mean I don't love her?



yes


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Last year my wife and I celebrated Valentines Day on Saturday 12th instead of Monday 14th.
> 
> Does that mean I don't love her?



Honestly, I don't know.
You DO know when Valentine's Day is though right?
You DO know the date of your wedding anniversary right?
You DO know her birthday right?
Those dates stand out because they are significant. Although slightly less significant than the birth of the Son of God, I can see why those dates are remembered, often down to the exact time.


No one seems to actually know the day that Jesus was born yet they know every detail of what happened and who was there and the words that were spoken! WOW!

Talk about miracles. Matthew and Luke(they were the disciples right???) each wrote about it in terrific detail even though neither were there. And if they were there they had to have been infants.... and then they wrote about it at least 60 years after Jesus died.


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Because the details are more important.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> You DO know the date of your wedding anniversary right?



I must admit to getting that one wrong a time or two.  But guess what, we are STILL married even though I've pooched the date.  




bullethead said:


> Talk about miracles. Matthew and Luke(they were the disciples right???) each wrote about it in terrific detail even though neither were there. And if they were there they had to have been infants.... and then they wrote about it at least 60 years after Jesus died.



I don't mean any offense, but this shows your lack of knowledge.  At least get well informed before you form your opinion.

Reading just the first couple of verses of Luke you can see he wasn't with Jesus from infancy.  Rather he set out to interview firsthand the "eyewitnesses" (those that knew and walked with Jesus) and "carefully investigate" the matter himself so that Theophilus would know with "certainty of the things he'd been taught".  Tradition hold that Luke was a Doctor.  Among the most learned men of the time; capable of strict investigation and documentation, talking to those who were there.  

Luke has an interesting contemporary in a guy called Lee Strobel.  Lee was a atheist Lawyer who set out to document and dispute this Jesus.  He went on to write a book of his finding called "The Case for Christ".  PM me your address and I will mail you a copy of it if you'd like.

From Luke:  "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,  just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.  With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,  so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> I don't mean any offense, but this shows your lack of knowledge.  At least get well informed before you form your opinion.



Vision, he believes what he wants to believe.   Having Matthew and Luke writing their gospels "at least 60 years" after Jesus' death....and calling Luke a disciple are just two things that are incorrect.    He doesn't want to know!!  lol


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## jabb06 (Dec 21, 2011)

I had the wierdest thing happen to me yesterday....the country store up the road is run by a group of indians with red dots on their foreheads...I went in to pay for some diesel & he gave me a bottle of wine & said Merry Christmas to you buddy.I had no idea they even recognized Christmas.....anyways Merry Christmas everyone


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## TTom (Dec 21, 2011)

It's amazing how tolerant of Christianity the Hindu are, considering the treatment they received for so long from them, and considering some of the treatment they receive from them still.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 21, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Vision, he believes what he wants to believe.   Having Matthew and Luke writing their gospels "at least 60 years" after Jesus' death....and calling Luke a disciple are just two things that are incorrect.    He doesn't want to know!!  lol


Sometime, but not now, we should take a close look at Matthew and Luke. I will have to find my rock helment


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## TTom (Dec 21, 2011)

Actually VisionCasting the Solstice is the reason for the season. LOL tonight (Dec 21) is Long Night, the longest night of the year, and we greet the morning sun knowing that the days will start to get longer starting tomorrow (Dec 22).

We celebrate the returning of the light.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

TTom said:


> Actually VisionCasting the Solstice is the reason for the season. LOL tonight (Dec 21) is Long Night, the longest night of the year, and we greet the morning sun knowing that the days will start to get longer starting tomorrow (Dec 22).
> 
> We celebrate the* returning of the light*.



Jesus _is_ light!


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## TTom (Dec 21, 2011)

:swords:Yeah you're gonna do the spelling trick next too. LOL

Returning of the Sun
Returning of the Son. 

Christians always stealin our Holidays . LOL


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2011)

TTom said:


> It's amazing how tolerant of Christianity the Hindu are, considering the treatment they received for so long from them, and considering some of the treatment they receive from them still.



Just like you are not responsible for slavery just because you are white, I can not be held responsible for the misguided actions of people acting out of their mistaken Christianity.  

Like Ghandi said:  "I like your Jesus very much, I just don't like your Christians.". But that's core to the Gospel-Christians are not infailable, just forgiven.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2011)

TTom said:


> Actually VisionCasting the Solstice is the reason for the season. LOL tonight (Dec 21) is Long Night, the longest night of the year, and we greet the morning sun knowing that the days will start to get longer starting tomorrow (Dec 22).
> 
> We celebrate the returning of the light.



The Solstice is the reason for the 'timing' of the season, but not the reason for the season.


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## TTom (Dec 21, 2011)

Winter is the SEASON and to claim Jesus is the reason for the start of winter eludes logic entirely, and the beginning date for Winter was not grafted onto Christianity, rather Christianity grafted the celebration of Jesus's birth of unspecified date onto the pre existing pagan holiday to which matched the best. Christians did the same with Easter.

Easier to convert the pagans when you simply rearrange the holidays to fit the cultures you are seeking to conquer.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

TTom said:


> :swords:Yeah you're gonna do the spelling trick next too. LOL
> 
> Returning of the Sun
> Returning of the Son.
> ...


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## vowell462 (Dec 21, 2011)

TTom said:


> Winter is the SEASON and to claim Jesus is the reason for the start of winter eludes logic entirely, and the beginning date for Winter was not grafted onto Christianity, rather Christianity grafted the celebration of Jesus's birth of unspecified date onto the pre existing pagan holiday to which matched the best. Christians did the same with Easter.
> 
> Easier to convert the pagans when you simply rearrange the holidays to fit the cultures you are seeking to conquer.



They had a show on the history channel last night about this. Very interesting.


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## vowell462 (Dec 21, 2011)

jabb06 said:


> I had the wierdest thing happen to me yesterday....the country store up the road is run by a group of indians with red dots on their foreheads...I went in to pay for some diesel & he gave me a bottle of wine & said Merry Christmas to you buddy.I had no idea they even recognized Christmas.....anyways Merry Christmas everyone



Funny you mention this. Several years ago I sold beer as a salesman for our local Budwieser distributor. I remember working one year in a c-store on Christmas eve and the man that owned the store was Indian and was handing out bottles of champaigne to his customers when they came in. He must have had twenty cases behind the counter. He even gave me one and said merry christmas, in which I gladly drank.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> Funny you mention this. Several years ago I sold beer as a salesman for our local Budwieser distributor. I remember working one year in a c-store on Christmas eve and the man that owned the store was Indian and was handing out bottles of champaigne to his customers when they came in. He must have had twenty cases behind the counter. He even gave me one and said merry christmas, in which I gladly drank.



They ain't stupid, they know how to make us silly Americans come back to their store and buy lotto tickets and cigs.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> They had a show on the history channel last night about this. Very interesting.



Gotta "watch" the history channel, while I haven't researched some of their claims myself, I have heard they get a lot of things wrong.

I heard something Monday morning on news talk 750 about one of the show they did and how they got most everything wrong.

Not saying it's a bad channel or anything, I like a lot of their shows, just got to take most of it with a grain of salt.


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

Happy birthday Mithra, who was born ~3500 years ago on December 25th, born of a virgin mother, son of god.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 21, 2011)

Didn't think Mithra was 'born of a virgin'....   I'll have to research that...   I thought he came out of the earth somehow....


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> Happy birthday Mithra, who was born ~3500 years ago on December 25th, born of a virgin mother, son of god.



I don't pay much mind to "saviours" who also guard cows.


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Didn't think Mithra was 'born of a virgin'....   I'll have to research that...   I thought he came out of the earth somehow....



Dont forget that he died, was placed in a stone tomb, then resurrected 3 days later.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> They had a show on the history channel last night about this. Very interesting.



It's ironic that people will watch TV and treat what's said as accurate...  yet those same people will dismiss any possible value in the Bible.  All hail the A+E network of channels.  

Just sayin'.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> Dont forget that he died, was placed in a stone tomb, then resurrected 3 days later.



What is your source?   I have never heard that he was born of a virgin or was resurrected...


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> What is your source?   I have never heard that he was born of a virgin or was resurrected...



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mithra+resurrection


enjoy!


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## pstrahin (Dec 21, 2011)

I just know that one day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus is Lord!


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## pstrahin (Dec 21, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> What is your source?   I have never heard that he was born of a virgin or was resurrected...



If it is not from the Holy Bible, do not even waste your time reading it.  Nothing good can come out of it.


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

pstrahin said:


> If it is not from the Holy Bible, do not even waste your time reading it.  Nothing good can come out of it.



Next time you go to the doctor tell him that he should only treat you with what he reads from the Holy Bible.

Why waste your time reading a biology / anatomy / chemistry textbook. How can anything good come from anything but the Bible?


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

Also BANDERSNATCH, i was joking with you with that lmgtfy link, if you need real help finding some sources i'll help you out. Let me know. 

There were plenty other pagan gods born of a virgin birth and resurrected.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mithra+resurrection
> 
> 
> enjoy!



How about the second link? Enjoy 

Doesn't the religion of Mithra prove that Christianity is false?
Some critics of Christianity teach that the Christian religion was not based upon divine revelation but that it borrowed from pagan sources, Mithra being one of them. They assert that the figure of Mithra has many commonalities with Jesus, too common to be coincidence.

Mithraism was one of the major religions of the Roman Empire which was derived from the ancient Persian god of light and wisdom. The cult of Mithraism was quite prominent in ancient Rome, especially among the military. Mithra was the god of war, battle, justice, faith, and contract. According to Mithraism, Mithra was called the son of God, was born of a virgin, had disciples, was crucified, rose from the dead on the third day, atoned for the sins of mankind, and returned to heaven. Therefore, the critics maintain that Christianity borrowed its concepts from the Mithra cult. But is this the case? Can it be demonstrated that Christianity borrowed from the cult of Mithra as it developed its theology?

First of all, Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament where we can see the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God (Zech. 12:10), born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), was crucified (Psalm 22), the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11), rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10), and salvation by faith (Hab. 2:4). Also, the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses (or directed by eyewitnesses as were Mark and Luke) who accurately represented the life of Christ. So, what they did was write what Jesus taught as well as record the events of His life, death, and resurrection. In other words, they recorded history, actual events and had no need of fabrication or borrowing.

There will undoubtedly be similarities in religious themes given the agrarian culture. Remember, an agriculturally based society, as was the people of the ancient Mediterranean area, will undoubtedly develop theological themes based upon observable events, i.e., the life, death, and seeming resurrection of life found in crops, in cattle, and in human life. It would only be natural for similar themes to unfold since they are observed in nature and since people created gods related to nature. But, any reading of the Old Testament results in observing the intrusion of God into Jewish history as is recorded in miracles and prophetic utterances. Add to that the incredible archaeological evidence verifying Old Testament cities and events and you have a document based on historical fact instead of mythical fabrication. Furthermore, it is from these Old Testament writings that the New Testament themes were developed.

Following is a chart demonstrating some of the New Testament themes found in the Old Testament.

Theme Old Testament
Reference New Testament
fulfilled in Jesus 
Ascension of Jesus to the right hand of God Ps. 110:1 Matt 26:64; Acts 7:55-60; Eph. 1:20 
Atonement by blood Lev. 17:11 Heb. 9:22 
Begotten Son, Jesus is Psalm 2:7 Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5 
Crucifixion Psalm 22:11-18; Zech. 12:10 Luke 23:33-38 
Eternal Son Micah 5:1-2; Psalm 2:7 Heb. 1:5; 5:5 
God among His people Isaiah 9:6; 40:3 John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Matt. 3:3 
Incarnation of God 1)Ex 3:14; 2)Ps. 45:6 Isaiah 9:6; Zech. 12:10 1)John 8:58; 1:1,14; 2)Heb. 1:8; Col. 2:9; Heb. 1:1-3 
Only Begotten Son Gen. 22:2. See Typology John 3:16; Heb. 11:7 
Resurrection of Christ Psalm 16:9-10; 49:15; Is. 26:19 John 2:19-21 
Return of Christ Zech. 14:1-5; Mic. 1:3-4 Matt. 16:27-28; Acts 1:11; 3:20 
Sin offering Ex. 30:10; Lev. 4:3 Rom. 8:3; Heb. 10:18; 13:11 
Son of God Psalm 2:7 John 5:18 
Substitutionary Atonement Isaiah 53:6-12; Lev. 6:4-10,21 Matt. 20:28; 1 Pet. 2:24; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 3:18; 
Virgin Birth Isaiah 7:14 Matt. 1:25 

(For a more complete list please go to Are the New Testament themes found in the Old Testament?)

As you can see, there is no need for any of the Christian writers to borrow from anything other than the Old Testament source in order to establish any Christian doctrine concerning Jesus.* If the argument that pagan mythologies predated Christian teachings and therefore Christianity borrowed from them is true, then it must also be truth that the pagan religions borrowed from the Jewish religion because it is older than they are! Given that all of the Christian themes are found in the Old Testament and the Old Testament was begun around 2000 B.C. and completed around 400 B.C., we can then conclude that these pagan religions actually borrowed from Jewish ideas found in the Old Testament.* Think about it, the idea of a blood sacrifice and a covering for sin is found in the first three chapters of Genesis when God covered Adam and Eve with animals skins and prophesied the coming of the Messiah.

Furthermore, those who wrote about Jesus in the New Testament were Jews (or under the instruction of Jews) who were devoted to the legitimacy and inspiration of the Old Testament scriptures and possessed a strong disdain for pagan religions. It would have been blasphemous for them to incorporate pagan sources into what they saw as the fulfillment of the sacred Old Testament scriptures concerning the Messiah. Also, since they were writing about Jesus, they were writing based upon what He taught: truth, love, honesty, integrity, etc. Why then would they lie and make up stories and suffer great persecution, hardships, ridicule, arrest, beatings, and death all for known lies and fabrications from paganism? It doesn't make sense.

At best, Mithraism only had some common themes with Christianity (and Judaism) which were recorded in both the Old and New Testaments. What is far more probable is that as Mithraism developed, it started to adopt Christian concepts.

"Allegations of an early Christian dependence on Mithraism have been rejected on many grounds. Mithraism had no concept of the death and resurrection of its god and no place for any concept of rebirth -- at least during its early stages...During the early stages of the cult, the notion of rebirth would have been foreign to its basic outlook...Moreover, Mithraism was basically a military cult. Therefore, one must be skeptical about suggestions that it appealed to nonmilitary people like the early Christians."1

What is more probable is that with the explosive nature of the Christian church in the 1st and 2nd century, other cult groups started to adapt themselves to take advantage of some of the teachings found in Christianity.

"While there are several sources that suggest that Mithraism included a notion of rebirth, they are all post-Christian. The earliest...dates from the end of the second century A.D."2

Therefore, even though there are similarities between Christianity and Mithraism, it is up to the critics to prove that one borrowed from the other. But, considering that the writers of the New Testament were Jews who shunned pagan philosophies and that the Old Testament has all of the themes found in Christianity, it is far more probable that if any borrowing was done, it was done by the pagan religions that wanted to emulate the success of Christianity.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> Also BANDERSNATCH, i was joking with you with that lmgtfy link, if you need real help finding some sources i'll help you out. Let me know.
> 
> There were plenty other pagan gods born of a virgin birth and resurrected.



That was pretty cool


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 21, 2011)

lol     as I thought....     There has never been a virgin birth reference.....only the depictions of him coming out of solid rock.    hardly a virgin birth similarity.   lol

And it would seem there were no resurrection similarities until AFTER Jesus' time....200AD or later.    

Also, since all Christian doctrines are found in the Old Testament, and predate Mithras, it would seem that Mithras have borrowed from very early Jewish traditions.   Genesis starts off with blood sacrifice for sin, and the first prophecy for Christ.....WELL before Mithra-ism.     

It was a good refresher.....always good to investigate.   Thanks.


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## ambush80 (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> Happy birthday Mithra, who was born ~3500 years ago on December 25th, born of a virgin mother, son of god.





Four said:


> Dont forget that he died, was placed in a stone tomb, then resurrected 3 days later.



Don't be ridiculous!  Those are just silly fables.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 21, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Don't be ridiculous!  Those are just silly fables.



I agree!


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## trophyslayer (Dec 21, 2011)

I am personally a Christian and a History nerd, If you want answers as to the timing of christmas being around the winter solctice it is because europe was controlled by the church and the church wanted a way to be more involved with the pagan population. this is why they adopted the season as the time to celebrate CHRISTmas. It was a celtic season that was adopted. this is also where the Christmas tree came from. Christ is thought to have actually been born in the spring time. Unfortunatley corporate church was and is corupt. The goverment in europe was governed by a money hungry church so that is why they imposed there holidays to have a better chance of gaining converts.  As a believer i celebrate and praise since it is my perogotive. To those that dont, that is there own perogotive too! I am a big time advocate of coexisting and dont believe that i should go around beating my beliefs into someones head.


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

At a quick glance, it seems the Mithra myths began 4000-3500 years ago, which would put it right about the same times that the OT was being written.

We know the OT took a long time to get into it's current form, and that the Jewish god Yahweh was taken from the Babylonian god of war (Yahweh). We also know it had many authors, and some parts have been removed or re-written. 

The Torah certainly took many ideas from pagan religions (Epic of Gilgamesh anyone?!) Weather or not the virgin birth, resurrection myths were taken as well, who knows. I don't particularly care either. I was just pointing out one of the many other myths from ancient history that had similar themes. 

Santa Claus is Germanic / Norse origins, even being derived from Odin himself. They're all fairy tales that any person might believe if they grew up in the right culture at the right time.

We're just lucky enough to get some time off work to see our family


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## tween_the_banks (Dec 21, 2011)

Merry Xmas everyone


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## vowell462 (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> It's ironic that people will watch TV and treat what's said as accurate...  yet those same people will dismiss any possible value in the Bible.  All hail the A+E network of channels.
> 
> Just sayin'.



Easy there. I never once said that the show did anything for me. I have an open mind. All I said was that it was an interesting program. Whats interesting is that in your snide comment you assume that I watch tv and dismiss the bible. You get all that from me saying the show was intersting? Very quick to assumption, just saying.

And String, I understand how you have to be careful with "watching" the history channel. A good example is my father and several old retired army officers who served in Vietnam are really upset with the show Vietnam in HD which was aired lately. Whole lotta guys are upset with thier "facts".


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## pstrahin (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> Next time you go to the doctor tell him that he should only treat you with what he reads from the Holy Bible.
> 
> Why waste your time reading a biology / anatomy / chemistry textbook. How can anything good come from anything but the Bible?



I am sure that you knew I was taking about God's Word and salvation, not text books published by man.  God's Inspired Word is the ONLY source of divine instruction.


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## tween_the_banks (Dec 21, 2011)

I wonder if the prophets that god spoke to ever played with psilocybin...?
^^A serious question.


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## stringmusic (Dec 21, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> Easy there. I never once said that the show did anything for me. I have an open mind. All I said was that it was an interesting program. Whats interesting is that in your snide comment you assume that I watch tv and dismiss the bible. You get all that from me saying the show was intersting? Very quick to assumption, just saying.
> 
> And String, I understand how you have to be careful with "watching" the history channel. A good example is my father and several old retired army officers who served in Vietnam are really upset with the show *Vietnam in HD *which was aired lately. Whole lotta guys are upset with thier "facts".


I watched a bunch of those episodes, that was crazy what them guys went through.
They showed statistics of how the average WWII infantryman spent about 10 in battle in a years time, and an infantryman in Vietnam spent like 180 days(or some crazy number like that) in battle.

Your pops is a MAN, tell him thanks.


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## bullethead (Dec 21, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> I don't mean any offense, but this shows your lack of knowledge.  At least get well informed before you form your opinion.
> 
> Reading just the first couple of verses of Luke you can see he wasn't with Jesus from infancy.  Rather he set out to interview firsthand the "eyewitnesses" (those that knew and walked with Jesus) and "carefully investigate" the matter himself so that Theophilus would know with "certainty of the things he'd been taught".  Tradition hold that Luke was a Doctor.  Among the most learned men of the time; capable of strict investigation and documentation, talking to those who were there.
> 
> ...



I can't slip one past you guys.
I know LUKE was a Greek. I know many did not take his writings seriously because he was not a disciple. The four verses explain his part. He researched historical records and interviewed Jesus disciples and eye witnesses. He was not there.

Who would have been alive that witnessed the birth of Jesus 60 years after Jesus death? Why do Matthew and Luke vary so much when each tell about Jesus birth?


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## centerpin fan (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Who would have been alive that witnessed the birth of Jesus 60 years after Jesus death?



Well, His mother witnessed His birth.  She didn't live that long, but she was well known by all the apostles and their disciples.  I'm sure Luke and the others used her as a source.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 21, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I can't slip one past you guys.
> I know LUKE was a Greek. I know many did not take his writings seriously because he was not a disciple. The four verses explain his part. He researched historical records and interviewed Jesus disciples and eye witnesses. He was not there.
> 
> Who would have been alive that witnessed the birth of Jesus 60 years after Jesus death? Why do Matthew and Luke vary so much when each tell about Jesus birth?


Ever heard of "edititoral fatigue"


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Ever heard of "edititoral fatigue"



I thought it was divinely guided by god?


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## Six million dollar ham (Dec 21, 2011)

stringmusic said:


>



Great job representing by you as well.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 21, 2011)

Four said:


> I thought it was divinely guided by god?


It has man's finger prints all over it. But the story within remains


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## fish hawk (Dec 21, 2011)

jabb06 said:


> I had the wierdest thing happen to me yesterday....the country store up the road is run by a group of indians with red dots on their foreheads...I went in to pay for some diesel & he gave me a bottle of wine & said Merry Christmas to you buddy.I had no idea they even recognized Christmas.....anyways Merry Christmas everyone





TTom said:


> It's amazing how tolerant of Christianity the Hindu are, considering the treatment they received for so long from them, and considering some of the treatment they receive from them still.





vowell462 said:


> Funny you mention this. Several years ago I sold beer as a salesman for our local Budwieser distributor. I remember working one year in a c-store on Christmas eve and the man that owned the store was Indian and was handing out bottles of champaigne to his customers when they came in. He must have had twenty cases behind the counter. He even gave me one and said merry christmas, in which I gladly drank.





stringmusic said:


> They ain't stupid, they know how to make us silly Americans come back to their store and buy lotto tickets and cigs.



LOL you got that right...Hindu's will celebrate whatever you want as long as you spend some money.Vowell I know it couldn't have been the Buck Stop in Ellerslie because Peter is so tight he squeaks when he walks instead of worrying about him giving you something you better be watching to make sure he don't over charge you,but he will tell you Merry Christmas....


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## Four (Dec 21, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> It has man's finger prints all over it. But the story within remains



Just not the parts were they got edititoral fatigue and got it wrong.

Wonder what other parts?


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## lagrangedave (Dec 21, 2011)

There are stories in the Himalayas that Christ was there studying with the Mystics during his " Lost Years "


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## JB0704 (Dec 22, 2011)

lagrangedave said:


> There are stories in the Himalayas that Christ was there studying with the Mystics during his " Lost Years "



I saw that on Net Geo last night....or was it the history channel, not sure.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 22, 2011)

Mormons think Jesus came over to the Americas after his stent in Israel, too...      (best I remember...could be wrong)

That Jesus sure is one :nono::nono::nono::nono: of a Man!      Everybody wants to own him or adopt his teachings!


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## vowell462 (Dec 22, 2011)

fish hawk said:


> LOL you got that right...Hindu's will celebrate whatever you want as long as you spend some money.Vowell I know it couldn't have been the Buck Stop in Ellerslie because Peter is so tight he squeaks when he walks instead of worrying about him giving you something you better be watching to make sure he don't over charge you,but he will tell you Merry Christmas....



Hahaha! Naw wasnt ol Peter. This was actually one in Columbus, the southside of Columbus actually.


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## atlashunter (Dec 22, 2011)

Merry Christmas fellas. Hope you all have a good one.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 22, 2011)

Yup, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to ALL!!!!


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## SneekEE (Dec 22, 2011)

Jesus preached for what, 3 years? He had no radio or tv to reach people, his largest crowd was a couple thousand maby? Not real sure how much traveling he did but it couldnt have been very far from home. Yet more books have been written about him than any other, more buildings built in His name, 30% of the worlds population claims to follow His teachings, and 2000 some yrs after His death and ressurection yall still on here talking about it. Impressive indeed.


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## atlashunter (Dec 22, 2011)

SneekEE said:


> Jesus preached for what, 3 years? He had no radio or tv to reach people, his largest crowd was a couple thousand maby? Not real sure how much traveling he did but it couldnt have been very far from home. Yet more books have been written about him than any other, more buildings built in His name, 30% of the worlds population claims to follow His teachings, and 2000 some yrs after His death and ressurection yall still on here talking about it. Impressive indeed.



I'm sure he would be impressed.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 22, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I'm sure he would be impressed.



I doubt it, he did create the Universe.


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## bullethead (Dec 23, 2011)

SneekEE said:


> Jesus preached for what, 3 years? He had no radio or tv to reach people, his largest crowd was a couple thousand maby? Not real sure how much traveling he did but it couldnt have been very far from home. Yet more books have been written about him than any other, more buildings built in His name, 30% of the worlds population claims to follow His teachings, and 2000 some yrs after His death and ressurection yall still on here talking about it. Impressive indeed.



Yet no one recorded it as it happened.


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## JB0704 (Dec 23, 2011)

Merry Christmas everybody!  

I haven't been around this forum long, but have enjoyed all the conversations.  Hope everybody has a safe and happy holiday season!


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## TripleXBullies (Dec 26, 2011)

Whose birthday is 12/25????? M-I-N-E  


If you sad Nickolodeon, maybe... but you're comparing an educational network to an old book that no one understands the same way...


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## bullethead (Dec 26, 2011)

Hbd!


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Whose birthday is 12/25????? M-I-N-E
> 
> 
> If you sad Nickolodeon, maybe... but you're comparing an educational network to an old book that no one understands the same way...



Happy Birthday, X!   What's it been like to have your birthday on Christmas every year?   lol    Big shoes to fill being born on Christmas!   lol    just kidding.


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