# Is corn bad?



## csgreen1 (Sep 29, 2005)

If corn is so bad for deer and turkey   why are they not all dead in texas can some of you corn experts explain that one to me please.


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2005)

No explaination necessary.  You can research it and find many studies on it.  Type in the word Aflatoxin and do a web search and you can read for days.


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## Beehaw (Sep 29, 2005)

Here is a great resource about corn and other foods:
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=2273


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2005)

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)

*It’s not inherently bad*

but it’s also not the best thing either  

Is driving a car bad? No, but you still run the risk of getting into a crash and dying, same for feeding wildlife corn, it’s all a roll of the dice I guess, many risk factors to consider but over all I would say no it’s not bad, heck we feed cows, chickens corn by the tons on a daily basis and they ain’t doing to bad


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## QuakerBoy (Sep 29, 2005)

The amount af aflatoxins allowed in feed corn seem s to be comparable to the amount allowed in the cornyou and I eat from one of the pages I was reading.

So, does everyone who's afraid to feed cor to dear also fear feeding it to their family?


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## Just 1 More (Sep 29, 2005)




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## hambone44 (Sep 29, 2005)

Still plenty o' deer here in FL right on, too....


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> The amount af aflatoxins allowed in feed corn seem s to be comparable to the amount allowed in the cornyou and I eat from one of the pages I was reading.
> 
> So, does everyone who's afraid to feed cor to dear also fear feeding it to their family?




That was kind of the point I was trying to make, We probably poison ourselves far worse (Mcdonald’s Big Mac, fries, coke for example) than we would ever do to wildlife, all that garbage we put in our bodies on a daily basis wouldn’t add up to a hill of beans as far as what we feed to the wildlife in general


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## QuakerBoy (Sep 29, 2005)

I don't feed the deer anything, but being that this is a anturally aoccuring toxin found in corn, peanuts, cottonseed and many other nuts, the deer and the people are gonna be exposed to a certain amount of it.  Basically it seems unavoidable unless we as a nation stop growing these plants alltogether.


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2005)

Bottom line is either you believe the reports from much smarter people than you or you don't.

Personally, I have never thoguht the anti-baiting crowd should use that arguement because the pro-baiting crowd does not care anyway.

I think what you will see is the song birds begin to disappear first then PETA will try to stop hunting because baiting is causeing the song birds to disappear.  Remember what happend wiht the bald eagle?  We were using pesticides to get rid of bugs.  It worked fine.  Then one day somebody noticed the eagles were gone.  They did not die off immediately.  It took time.  I predict we will not see the effects of wide scale baiting until it is too late.


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## QuakerBoy (Sep 29, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Bottom line is either you believe the reports from much smarter people than you or you don't.
> 
> .



I agree Randy...but you are only reading the parts you want to hear.  It occurs in all corn...not just the corn in bait piles....read the documents....It also occurs in peanuts, cottonseed and many other nuts.....to stop feeding corn to wildlife will not rid the world of Aflatoxins.  The animals will still have access to these as will people.  

Many of the links talked about the effects of aflatoxins on humans and I have yet to see a human grazing at a corn pile.

Unless you cout the all you can eat corn roast


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## LJay (Sep 29, 2005)

The only toxins I feed deer is 180 grs. lead. That's pretty bad for them.


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)




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## EEFowl (Sep 29, 2005)

Corn itself is not bad.  Hunting wildlife - deer - over corn or bait is .... well I will with hold my comment. 

Corn is not a nutritionally balanced food source for deer, ie., it's not good for them, or rather it's not nearly as good for them as other food sources are.

Consentrating wildlife at a feeder site predisposes that wildlife to the spread of any disease that any of the wildlife are carring.  CWD in particular.  Don't all of the states that have CWD allow, or used to allow, hunting deer over biat?  That's interesting.

It baiting is allowed or legalized it will not effect the number of deer harvested despite the argument that the pro-baiters use about helping to reduce the deer population.  

Killing wildlife over bait reduces hunting to just that, killing wildlife over bait.  

Since baiting will not effect the total harvest deer, is not a sound biological practice, and is not a good food source for deer, and reduces hunting deer to shooting deer that come to bait, then I would say that bait - corn - is bad.

EF


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## EEFowl (Sep 29, 2005)

> to stop feeding corn to wildlife will not rid the world of Aflatoxins. The animals will still have access to these as will people.



You are right alflatoxin mold will still be available but not any more availably that it would anyway so why voluntarly put more out there?  It's not just about aflatoxins.  What about CWD and other diseases.  What about aflatoxin poisioning of turkey that eat this corn during deer season?

EF


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## Thunder Head (Sep 29, 2005)

I think the main problem with corn and wildlife is it sitting in a pile and spoiling. Wildlife will eat it anyway. After spoiling the dangers are greatly elevated it will harm them.

My main opposition to baiting in general is the non hunting public considers it cheating.
 As you all know at current rates non-hunters are fast out numbering us.
 We need every person we can get on our side.


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## QuakerBoy (Sep 29, 2005)

EEFowl said:
			
		

> You are right alflatoxin mold will still be available but not any more availably that it would anyway so why voluntarly put more out there?  It's not just about aflatoxins.  What about CWD and other diseases.  What about aflatoxin poisioning of turkey that eat this corn during deer season?
> 
> EF




First, why assume that any corn put out ther has aflatoxins...that is not the case.

I can't agree with you more about CWD but I was responding to the aflatoxin comment.

also...about the turkey....this is only from one source but it is what I found  

Here's the page  http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/aflatoxin.php

and here's the quote 





> A careful survey of the early outbreaks showed that they were all associated with feeds, namely Brazilian peanut meal . An intensive investigation of the suspect peanut meal was undertaken and it was quickly found that this peanut meal was highly toxic to poultry and ducklings with symptoms typical of Turkey X disease .



I did notice that it mentions early outbreaks but can't find much more about other outbreaks...I'm open to any information you may have


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)

Thunder Head said:
			
		

> I think the main problem with corn and wildlife is it sitting in a pile and spoiling.



Who in the heck Piles on the corn  

Any expert baiter knows to be successful you have to spread (cast) the corn, Piles don’t work as well and will go bad  


Dang it! Guess I gotta give up my Corn Flakes for breakfast   

Wonder if deer would like Corn Flakes? I know tree rats love it, I will get me a box I will let ya know how it turns out   


okay this is starting to turn into another baiting thread


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## QuakerBoy (Sep 29, 2005)

back to the original question...is corn bad

No...corn is a good source of carbohydrates which all animals use for energy.  

Aflotoxins are bad.  Not all corn has aflotoxins.

CWD is bad.

I'm not sold on wether baiting is bad or not.

But is corn bad?  Not in my opinion.

Also....back to my previous post...the source of those poisonings was peanut meal...not corn.


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## EEFowl (Sep 29, 2005)

> My main opposition to baiting in general is the non hunting public considers it cheating.
> As you all know at current rates non-hunters are fast out numbering us.



Only about 10% of the population (nationwide and Georgia)are hunters, about 10% are anti-hunters, and about 80% of the population are non-hunters.  So 90% of the population does not hunt.  

Although non-hunters, the 80%, do not hunt, they are not opposed to you hunting.  The anti-hunters, the other 10% are opposed to you hunting anything for any reason using any tactic.

Non-hunters and anti-hunters are opposed to hunting wildlife over bait and do look at it as 'cheating' or lazy.  

Non-hunters have long out numbered hunters and when added to the anti-hunter population will have at least 90% of the legislative representation.

Think about that when you decide that you want a law changed that will allow a practice that is not approved of by 90% of the population.

EF


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## scshep2002 (Sep 29, 2005)

The only thing bad about corn is the cost of each bag seems to be going up!!!!!!


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)

*That's what I'm talking about*



			
				scshep2002 said:
			
		

> The only thing bad about corn is the cost of each bag seems to be going up!!!!!!




this is bad


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## Beehaw (Sep 29, 2005)

SADDADDY said:
			
		

> this is bad


       

I have not laughed that hard in a while!  You will notice, though, that my avatar is much more of a marksman.


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> I agree Randy...but you are only reading the parts you want to hear.  It occurs in all corn...not just the corn in bait piles....read the documents....It also occurs in peanuts, cottonseed and many other nuts.....to stop feeding corn to wildlife will not rid the world of Aflatoxins.  The animals will still have access to these as will people.
> 
> Many of the links talked about the effects of aflatoxins on humans and I have yet to see a human grazing at a corn pile.
> 
> Unless you cout the all you can eat corn roast


The question was weather corn is bad for deer.  Not me.  But you have a point, since we can not get rid of ALL of it lets allow ALL of it.  I think that is the same arguement being used for legalizing drugs!  I am not trying to rid the world of Aflatoxins.  I do think we should minimze them where we can.


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## SADDADDY (Sep 29, 2005)

*question*

If corn is so bad and baiting is the biggest taboo in the hunting community why is it a okay for people during the off season to supplemental feed or to use corn to attract deer to there trail camera sites  

It blows my mind that people will kick and scream about how using corn is so wrong and is not acceptable practice for hunting, but on the flip side those are the one’s loading up the feeders or spreading corn all over god’s green earth to capture the deer on film  about 90% of all the trail camera pics I see show a deer and corn or deer and feeder or deer and mineral site etc....  

What is the difference besides the obvious (hunting over corn) if we are so concerned about poisoning the deer or other wildlife for that matter  

So my take is if feeding deer and other wildlife and all of it’s uses need to be stopped and just not focus on the “Baiting issue” as so many are quick to point out that it is the main problem, but I believe there are far more “recreational” feeders than there are people who actually use bait for hunting


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## Dana Young (Sep 29, 2005)

I Used To Work In A Feed Lab We Did Alot Of Testing For Afflatoxins. The Afflatoxins Are Worse On Poultry So If You Have Corn In Your Feeders You Are Possibly Hurting Your Turkey Population. Also A Quick Test For Afflatoxins Is To Scan The Corn With A Black Light If Mold That Causes Afflatoxins Are Present It Will Illuminate. But That Doesn't Necessarily Mean There Are Afflotoxins Present. If You Are Going To Use Corn In Your Feeders You Might Want To Try This Quick Test.
Dana


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2005)

SADDADDY said:
			
		

> If corn is so bad and baiting is the biggest taboo in the hunting community why is it a okay for people during the off season to supplemental feed or to use corn to attract deer to there trail camera sites



It should not be OK.  The problem is there is no law against it.  Maybe we should work toward stopping it?  That would give the DNR something to do in the "of-season."


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## LJay (Sep 29, 2005)

SADDADDY said:
			
		

> Who in the heck Piles on the corn
> 
> Any expert baiter knows to be successful you have to spread (cast) the corn, Piles don’t work as well and will go bad
> 
> ...


Hey! Let me know about the cornflakes, them thangs ain't near as heavy as a bag of corn.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

hambone44 said:
			
		

> Still plenty o' deer here in FL right on, too....



This is an excerpt from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's 2005 Summit

Introduction

Background

Organizations who support hunting in the State are working together to hold a Summit on the Future of
Hunting in Florida. This Summit will be a call to action for Florida’s hunting community to step up
and do what is necessary to secure the future of hunting. In preparation for the Summit, the planning
team sought input from Florida hunters to better understand what these hunters felt were the most
important issues or challenges facing hunting in the State.

Purpose

The purpose of this research is to help the Florida Wildlife & Conservation Commission gain a better
understanding of what issues or challenges Florida hunters believe should be the focus of the
upcoming Summit on the Future of Hunting in Florida.

Methodology

To address this objective, VAI-MRO mailed surveys to a random list of licensed Florida hunters in
March 2005. Respondents were invited to participate in the study either by completing an enclosed
mail survey or by completing the survey online at a secure website. In total, 465 Florida hunters
completed a survey, virtually all via the paper questionnaire.
Throughout the report you will occasionally find a superscripted letter (e.g. E) next to some of the
percentages. Where such superscripted letters appear, they indicate that that percentage is significantly
different from the percentage in the adjacent column labeled by that letter.
Major Challenges to the Future of Hunting in Florida

1

Conclusions & Recommendations
Florida hunters participating in this study are generally pessimistic about the future of hunting in the
State. Far more hunters see the direction of hunting in the State getting worse rather than better (56%
vs. 15%). Those who hunt on public lands are somewhat more pessimistic than those who do not (59%
vs. 50%).

Key reasons given for their pessimism are that there is less land available for hunting, less game, more
hunters and more hunters who are behaving badly and in some cases illegally.
When asked what one change they would make to improve the future of hunting in Florida, hunters
most often recommend that more land be made available for hunting and that this property made more
accessible (32%). Other changes vary considerably. Some wanting more liberal and others more
restrictive practices.
Participating hunters indicate that during the past three years, 32% have hunted exclusively on private
lands, 24% hunted exclusively on public lands (WMA and other) and 44% hunted on both private and
public lands. Overall, 76% have hunted on private lands and 68% have hunted on public lands. Given
the broad overlap, it’s important that the Summit address issues pertaining to hunting on both private
and public lands.
Florida hunters identify a number of key issues that they feel are most important to the future of
hunting in the State and that they believe should be addressed in the upcoming Hunting Summit.
Among the more general hunting issues, those perceived to be the most important to participating
hunters are: the erosion of hunter ethics and associated negative perceptions of hunters (39%), the
impact of anti-hunting, animal rights activists (36%), the impact of excessively restrictive federal land
management policies and practices (33%), building a unified and politically strong coalition of hunters
in Florida (33%), and providing adequate hunting opportunities for new hunters (32%).
Three quarters of the participants choose one or more of three issues: erosion of hunter ethics and
associated negative public perceptions of hunters, impact of anti-hunting, animal rights activists, and
building a unified and politically strong coalition of hunters in Florida. So dealing with this negative
perceptions of hunters and hunting should definitely be one of the topics covered at the Summit.


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## labman (Sep 29, 2005)

EEFowl said:
			
		

> Corn itself is not bad.
> Consentrating wildlife at a feeder site predisposes that wildlife to the spread of any disease that any of the wildlife are carring.  CWD in particular.
> Killing wildlife over bait reduces hunting to just that, killing wildlife over bait.
> 
> EF


Sorta like when they all eat them big white oak or any kind of acorns under an oak tree, they all eat at the same place. This doesn't hold water.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

labman said:
			
		

> Sorta like when they all eat them big white oak or any kind of acorns under an oak tree, they all eat at the same place. This doesn't hold water.



hehehehe-Reckon why the first move wildlife biologists suggest in states where CWD is found is to ban all feeding and baiting of deer?

All those biologists must be wrong.


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## labman (Sep 29, 2005)

The problem with FL is there are to many subdivisions taking up the land where the wildlife use to stay. Developers are building where there have been hunt clubs for many many years. The wildlife has nowhere to go. Yesterday there was a deer hit in the middle of Jax on Atlantic Blvd. That is dead in the middle of the city. I say in the next 10 years there will be very little hunting left in North Fl or anywhere in Fl at the rate it's going. The city is buying up the land with public funds and makeing it nature preserves where you can't hunt just observe the birds and bee's. This is not all bad but the hunting is on it's way out here in FL.


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## labman (Sep 29, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> hehehehe-Reckon why the first move wildlife biologists suggest in states where CWD is found is to ban all feeding and baiting of deer?
> 
> All those biologists must be wrong.


That's because they can't make the trees stop dropping acorns and the Deer wont listen to them when they say not to eat at the same place as there friends.


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## Madsnooker (Sep 29, 2005)

I'm not worried about corn killing off deer. Not gonna happen. The thought that corn would spread disease faster than if it's not there is   to me. Deer constantly come in contact with each other daily. Anybody that hunts knows this. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen deer eating under white oaks and licking each other, sniffing each others noses, etc. I would not be sitting at this desk.
If disease is present, it will run it's course with or without corn. 

If you want to argue the aflatoxin angle than I might buy that a little 

I guess some of you now think I'm for corn and baiting. Not even close. I don't use corn, never have and do not bait. If given the chance I would vote against baiting.   

(Actually I do bait as I use food plots) Hope I'm not a hypocrite.


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## striper commander (Sep 29, 2005)

What about pop corn i heard deer love it. I thought about buying some 40 pound bags of it at sam's the other day and put in my yard feeder that has a corn soybean mix in it to see how they like it.


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## gabowman (Sep 29, 2005)

Not trying to hijack this thread.....but if all the anti-baiters are so against putting out corn then why do alot of them do just that all during the summer months if it's harmful to deer? Not saying that EVERYBODY does but have read where alot of folks do it every year.


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## labman (Sep 29, 2005)

gabowman said:
			
		

> Not trying to hijack this thread.....but if all the anti-baiters are so against putting out corn then why do alot of them do just that all during the summer months if it's harmful to deer? Not saying that EVERYBODY does but have read where alot of folks do it every year.


Great question! Let's hear some responces to this.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

biggame11 said:
			
		

> Jeff,
> 
> I don't see corn mentioned anywhere in this report Did I Miss Something.



Yes.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

biggame11 said:
			
		

> I see that in Wisconsin they only stopped baiting in the areas that have confirmed cases of CWD.
> 
> I would think that they would have outlawed it completely if it is the main reason for the spread of CWD.



It is not banned everywhere because of stuborn hard headed people that simply will not accept scientific analysis and fact.


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## letsgohuntin (Sep 29, 2005)

gabowman said:
			
		

> Not trying to hijack this thread.....but if all the anti-baiters are so against putting out corn then why do alot of them do just that all during the summer months if it's harmful to deer? Not saying that EVERYBODY does but have read where alot of folks do it every year.



Good question...   

Like someone else mentioned, they don't seem to have a problem with using it to get _their _ deer to pose for a picture on the trail cam. I guess its OK when it suites _their_ agenda.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

biggame11 said:
			
		

> I would also assume with this logic, that every state that allows supplemental feeding ( baiting ) has had an outbreak of CWD.
> 
> HHHHMMMM afraid not.



Tony,

I know you and I have to say this type of ludicrus statement is beneth you. You've been hanging around WOODIE13 too much!  

Baiting, of course does not CAUSE CWD. However, baiting does increase the opportunity for the disease to spread.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

letsgohuntin said:
			
		

> Good question...
> 
> Like someone else mentioned, they don't seem to have a problem with using it to get _their _ deer to pose for a picture on the trail cam. I guess its OK when it suites _their_ agenda.



I'm not sure who "they" and "their" refers to but I can tell you straight up that myself and my friends do not feed deer.

It is bad for the resource and results in lower harvest rates, particularly the harvest of mature bucks.

Why would anyone do anything that they knew damaged the resource and the future of hunting?


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## letsgohuntin (Sep 29, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> I'm not sure who "they" and "their" refers to but I can tell you straight up that myself and my friends do not feed deer.



Jeff, I have never seen you make a contradicting statement about the use of feed...

_But_ I have seen other staunt opponents to feeding/baiting on these forums, mention in casual conversation in varies posts about using corn for camera shots and "checking out" deer movement in a different areas of their land.  Its not proper to name names, but its out there.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

let'sgo,

I'm sure that there are folks that do it. That don't make it right and I hope that eventualy we all will see the light.

There was a time, not so long ago, when I put feed out to watch deer, but thanks to a little research and education I now know that it was a very wrong thing to do.

In this age of easy access to information and research there is no need for folks to go around acting ignorantly. Read, comprehend and adjust to what we have learned.

The resource will be better for it and the hunting community will be stronger because of it.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 29, 2005)

biggame11 said:
			
		

> Jeff,
> 
> Now you know I just like messing with you sometimes.



Some folks would call it "misinformation"!

See you Saturday!

I'm going to bed!


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## letsgohuntin (Sep 29, 2005)

EEFowl said:
			
		

> Think about that when you decide that you want a law changed that will allow a practice that is not approved of by 90% of the population.
> 
> EF



Thats assuming that 100% of the 90% of non hunters are against baiting/feeding. I would _guess_ its only about 30% - 40% of the 90% of non hunters against baiting. Keep in mind 10% of those people are against hunting, no matter what(according to these posted figures) Does anyone have any hard numbers on any surveys of non-hunters?

I hope that makes since with all of those %'s...


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## Hawg (Sep 29, 2005)

*Is corn Bad?*

No it's not! Matter of fact I ate some tonight.  
Deer like it too.


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## CAL (Sep 29, 2005)

I said I was going to stay out of this but here goes and I already know better!
Just wondering how many members have seen aflotoxin in any kind of grain or peanuts or in any form to recognize it and to know what they are seeing?Does anyone know how much of an ear of corn is infected?Most times it is from 3 to 5 grains right in the top of the ear where some insect has fed.
It has been my experience as a farmer to be able to recognize it from inspecting corn in the field to see if it is dry enough to gather.But to be sure it has to be inspected under a microscope to see the growth of the infection.I have noted that in my experience it has only formed where insects have fed on the first grains in the top of the ear and this most always happens in an extremely dry year.It is to the farmers advantage to set his machine to blow out these infected grains so they will not go into the sample.Once discovered at a buying point the farmer is sorta branded as having infected grain and is watched very closely.Also infected grain with the right amount of infection will be turned down for purchase and the farmer is left with what to do with it.Believe it or not some of the very well thought of livestock feed mfgs.are known for purchasing this infected corn.It is always cheap,much less than the going price so it is attractive.Once ground in a feed,it becomes quite hard to find,but it is there.I wonder what the danger of the corn is that is blown out in the field as the deer will feed on it  quite regularly or rather every night till it is gone.It has also been my experience to see corn in the field that has rotted and the deer nor anything else will eat it.
If increased contact causes increase spread of disease and I am sure it does then what about mineral licks,food plots,water holes?
What about multiple bucks following one doe in estrus?This is increase contact on the heavy side,what needs to be done about this?
If we are against hunting over bait,then I think that is one thing but to lay it all on A flavor in my opinion is wrong.I have fed corn,reason,to me I like to watch game.In all my years of feeding corn I have never seen a buck deer feeding that was worth dealing with.It seems to me the big deer are too smart to fall for that trick.After all the big boys didn't get  big from walking up to some country boys feeder.Without a doubt hunting around a feeder is a lazy mans way of hunting.I also wonder if it were legal would there be any more corn fed than is already being fed?There is a local that cleans and bags corn for wildlife feed.As it is he can hardly keep up with demand now!


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## Son (Sep 29, 2005)

*Corn*

I don't see any need to worry about feeding corn around here. All the corn fields have it scattered over hundreds of acres after harvesting. Heck, that's way more than I could put out in a lifetime. Now, what's wrong with akerns? Are they bad too...??


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## General Lee (Sep 29, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> It should not be OK.  The problem is there is no law against it.  Maybe we should work toward stopping it?  That would give the DNR something to do in the "of-season."


Randy, I nominate you to spearhead this effort to make all feeding of wildlife illegal in the State.That should keep you busy for a while


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## General Lee (Sep 29, 2005)

Cal,Like you I was raised on a farm and know how we made sure corn was dry before we put it in the grain bins,ran those dryers to make sure the corn in the bins stayed dry(boy aren't those things loud?),etc.in an effort to prevent corn from being infected with alfatoxins.Most of these folks had never heard the word alfatoxin until DNR threw it out there as a "the sky is falling"propaganda campaign to bolster a weak argument against supplemental feeding and baiting.Bottom line is  the feeding of deer is going to continue and legal baiting of deer is going to continue as long as the 200 yard rule is adhered to much to the chagrin of DNR and others


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## raghorn (Sep 30, 2005)

After reading these posts and doing a lot of thinking, it seems to me that the way you are taught to hunt influences most hunters opinions. I learned to hunt deer in the north ga. mountains by looking for natural food sources,terrain features, and general deer behavior to be successful. Younger hunters are learning to plant for deer and do supplemental feeding.I won't argue who is right or wrong,but as for me I prefer the way I was taught even if it means the buck I take will never grace the pages of a magazine or newspaper.To me there is more satisfaction in using good woodsmanship to take a small buck in untouched terrrain than sitting over a 100 acre food plot and waiting on does to draw a buck out in the open.Again I know a lot of hunters will disagree with that, but if it's truly a personal thing , then personally thats what floats my boat.Every year I here hunters talking in excitement about going to Texas or other states where heavy deer management exists, but I would love to go to a state like Wisconsin, Maine,ect. , where man's influence has not effected the deer herds.Okay, fire away.......I know I offended somebody.


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## scshep2002 (Sep 30, 2005)

Hunt up north, hunt down south, I have done both and continue to do both. It is just a simple fact that some people bait an dothers dont. Some use corn off season and some use it all season lol It is all up to the individual hunter to decide what he or she wants to do. After hunting down south here for a few years and seeing the difference of hunting a nice open wooded ridge in the fall, then hnting a swamp bottom or cypress head in FL and GA., I understand why some bait!! So corn away!!!!!!


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## Randy (Sep 30, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> I'm not sure who "they" and "their" refers to but I can tell you straight up that myself and my friends do not feed deer.
> 
> It is bad for the resource and results in lower harvest rates, particularly the harvest of mature bucks.
> 
> Why would anyone do anything that they knew damaged the resource and the future of hunting?



I use to but not since I found out about the problems it can cause.  I use to feed them in my back yard so the wife and I could watch the deer.  She liked it.  She is not so happy that we have stopped but I explain the hypocracy about it and she agrees.


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## Son (Sep 30, 2005)

*feeding*

Do away with B&C, P&Y cause us natural hunters don't stand a chance against those who raise their deer. Fenced or unfenced. Feeding has become a big market. Special feeders, special feed, mineral supplements, special crops with catchy names and food plot equipment. I'd rather fertilize the oaks, persimmons, briars etc..then I use biofeed wheat and oats to enhance the area cause our neighbors do. No scentkiller, very little if any camo, no attractant scents or any of those special market aids. Just a good bath, powder down with baking soda, watch the wind and go hunting. With the money I save, I buy gas and get my trophies mounted. I once knew an oldtimer who used vicks salve for a cover scent and to keep the bugs off, he swore by it. I don't think putting out corn hurts anything, it feeds all the wildlife. Squirrels eat the germ out of each kernel, then the birds, coons, deer and ants eat the rest.


----------



## QuakerBoy (Sep 30, 2005)

I'm still satnding by my stance that corn itself is not bad for deer.  Not all corn contains aflotoxins.

Saying corn is bad for deer because it contains aflotoxins is like saying chicken is bad for humans because it contains salmonella.


----------



## Randy (Sep 30, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> I'm still satnding by my stance that corn itself is not bad for deer.  Not all corn contains aflotoxins.
> 
> Saying corn is bad for deer because it contains aflotoxins is like saying chicken is bad for humans because it contains salmonella.



OK corn is not bad for deer.  Is it good for deer?  Does it provide them with anything they can not get in the wild?


----------



## QuakerBoy (Sep 30, 2005)

Actually they can get corn in the wild walking into a farmers field.  

I don't recall this thread asking about baiting but it sure has went that way. 

Nothing anybody puts out in a feeder or grows in a food plot any time of year provides the deer with anything they can't get in the wild.  Deer survived thousands of years without people supplementing their diet.


----------



## ryanwhit (Sep 30, 2005)

Nah, corn's not bad.  You gotta cook it, but after that it's pretty good.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 30, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> Nothing anybody puts out in a feeder or grows in a food plot any time of year provides the deer with anything they can't get in the wild.  Deer survived thousands of years without people supplementing their diet.



Rich,

I may just go get on a plane and fly to Pennsylvania to buy you a cold beer!


----------



## QuakerBoy (Sep 30, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Rich,
> 
> I may just go get on a plane and fly to Pennsylvania to buy you a cold beer!




I could go for one of them bout now....well...bout lunchtime


----------



## Randy (Sep 30, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> Nothing anybody puts out in a feeder or grows in a food plot any time of year provides the deer with anything they can't get in the wild.  Deer survived thousands of years without people supplementing their diet.


You are exactly right so why do any of it?


----------



## QuakerBoy (Sep 30, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> You are exactly right so why do any of it?



I don't....I was just answering his question


----------



## Larry Rooks (Sep 30, 2005)

Corn may not be the most protein filled food source for deer but it certainly does not kill out the herd.  Using corn can be done two ways, one useless in my opinion.  By pouring out a pile on the ground, most of it goes bad, dew will ruin it in just a few days if not eaten quickly.  If it is scattered widely in an area, you get more use out of it.  The best way, in trough type feeders that have a roof and prevent the corn from getting wet.  In mine, I mix it with Purina 18% Protein pellets and the deer herd will benefit from it when the natural food source is down.  I have seen that when PErsimmons, Crab apples, and White Oak Acorns are abundant, deer pay less attention to a feeder and go for the natural stuff.  But, during winter months when all this is gown and browse is gone, they hit feeders hard


----------



## broadhead (Sep 30, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> Nothing anybody puts out in a feeder or grows in a food plot any time of year provides the deer with anything they can't get in the wild.  Deer survived thousands of years without people supplementing their diet.



I posted a remark almost exactly like this statement about six months ago on this site. I was told I was wrong by one of our oldest and most popular members. Of course I knew that I wasn't. Now, I know I was right because my good buddy Rpaul11 confirmed it!


----------



## QuakerBoy (Sep 30, 2005)

Agreeing with me can get you in trouble round here...better watch yourself


----------



## broadhead (Sep 30, 2005)

rpaul11 said:
			
		

> Agreeing with me can get you in trouble round here...better watch yourself


Just trying to take up the slack!


----------



## tommy w. (Sep 30, 2005)

deer cant eat pine needels


----------



## Hawg (Sep 30, 2005)

tommy w. said:
			
		

> deer cant eat pine needels



If they were corn favored..........you wouldnt see a needle head high.


----------



## Larry Rooks (Oct 1, 2005)

I realize that deer have survived 1000 years with no help from us, BUT, do they alwyas get exactly what they NEED or just barely get by with what they got.  Survival is not all there is too it.  If we can make it better for them, why not.
I am not saying to go out and pur a bag of corn on the ground and hunt over it, that I do disagree with, but when we can manage a quality food station all year long. with the right type of high protein food source, what are we hurting.  Certain mineral licks BENEFIT the deer herds, some food sources that they do not have avaiable will also BENEFIT the deer.  All hunting land is not in farmed areas,
and the only natural food source is browse and every now and then good white oak acorn crops, but not always.  The weather also has a lot to do with the production of the natural food source and that source may not get what it needs to produce enough for the deer.  A supplimental food
supply can do nothing to hurt the herd in either circumstance.  High protein food sources are what deer need to produce good body weight,  and help the Bucks grow a good rack.  In some areas, like many areas in GA where there is thousands of acres of nothing but Pine trees, those few briars that grow under them are not exactly what I would call a great food supply, then the deer travel long distances to get to a good food source, if it is there, they stay with it. if not they leave.  A super thick piece of property may be great for deer to bed in, but if there is not food supply, they travel to other properties to eat, which takes a majority of the deer off of your property
during their feeding times.  A well managed supplimental food program can only help the herd.


----------



## labman (Oct 1, 2005)

In those cases nature would step in and thin the herd to the lands carrying capacity.  We might not like the #'s of deer then but they would survive all the same,  nature doesn't need our help to survive.  It only needs us when we get greedy and want more and bigger.  I'm just as guilty as the next about planting and feeding so I am talking to my self as well.


----------



## Scout-N-Hunt (Oct 1, 2005)




----------



## JBowers (Oct 1, 2005)

> I see that in Wisconsin they only stopped baiting in the areas that have confirmed cases of CWD.





> I would think that they would have outlawed it completely if it is the main reason for the spread of CWD




Who? The Wildlife Agency or the Politicans. Complete prohibition is what was recommended by the Wildlife Agency. However, as we all know, politicians always know best.




> _ Consentrating wildlife at a feeder site predisposes that wildlife to the spread of any disease that any of the wildlife are carring. CWD in particular. Don't all of the states that have CWD allow, or used to allow, hunting deer over biat? That's interesting._







> I would also assume with this logic, that every state that allows supplemental feeding ( baiting ) has had an outbreak of CWD.





> > What pattern of logical reasoning is being referred to? There are no premises and no conclusions and no reasoning! Maybe that was missed, too! In the first quote, the first sentence is a statement of widely accepted fact (no logic!). The second is an opinion based on a measure of personal value. Following is a valid question followed by an exclamatory statement.
> >
> > However, for assumption purposes, the conclusion, “that every state that allows supplemental feeding ( baiting ) has had an outbreak of CWD” is based on offered premises. Although, in order for one to presuppose this conclusion would require that someone to believe that feeding causes CWD. However, anyone who is educated and slightly knowledgeable knows this to be false because the regarding disease transmission and feed is as forthwith noted.
> >
> > ...


----------



## JBowers (Oct 1, 2005)

Larry Rooks said:
			
		

> I realize that deer have survived 1000 years with no help from us, BUT, do they alwyas get exactly what they NEED or just barely get by with what they got. Survival is not all there is too it. If we can make it better for them, why not.
> I am not saying to go out and pur a bag of corn on the ground and hunt over it, that I do disagree with, but when we can manage a quality food station all year long. with the right type of high protein food source, what are we hurting. Certain mineral licks BENEFIT the deer herds, some food sources that they do not have avaiable will also BENEFIT the deer. All hunting land is not in farmed areas,
> and the only natural food source is browse and every now and then good white oak acorn crops, but not always. The weather also has a lot to do with the production of the natural food source and that source may not get what it needs to produce enough for the deer. A supplimental food
> supply can do nothing to hurt the herd in either circumstance. High protein food sources are what deer need to produce good body weight, and help the Bucks grow a good rack. In some areas, like many areas in GA where there is thousands of acres of nothing but Pine trees, those few briars that grow under them are not exactly what I would call a great food supply, then the deer travel long distances to get to a good food source, if it is there, they stay with it. if not they leave. A super thick piece of property may be great for deer to bed in, but if there is not food supply, they travel to other properties to eat, which takes a majority of the deer off of your property
> during their feeding times. A well managed supplimental food program can only help the herd.


 
And a well managed stem cell program can only help medical technology and the human race.

And a well managed human genetic engineering program can only help the human race.

For everyone in Metro areas, a well managed planning zone and growth plan can only help our communities be a better, less stressful community with lower taxes and higher quality of life.  (Atlanta was built on that myth folks!)


----------



## Hawg (Oct 1, 2005)

Please, Deer dont have high cholesterol. Their wild, their in shape. 9 times out of 10 they will walk over a corn pile to eat something else.


----------



## huntfish (Oct 1, 2005)

Originally Posted by rpaul11
Nothing anybody puts out in a feeder or grows in a food plot any time of year provides the deer with anything they can't get in the wild. Deer survived thousands of years without people supplementing their diet. 

You are correct.  The deer population was a complete wash in the past.  I'm sure there are many that can on this board who can remember seeing a track was a high point of the season in this state.

With that said, baiting is not just a hunter's issue.  There are many anti hunters that utilize feed to observe deer.  For them, seeing a deer is a great thing and that will not change.  Baiting will occur, that is a fact.  Wether someone hunts over a feeder is a personal  issue.  However, baiting will continue.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 2, 2005)

huntfish said:
			
		

> .....................The deer population was a complete wash in the past.  I'm sure there are many that can on this board who can remember seeing a track was a high point of the season in this state.
> 
> With that said, baiting is not just a hunter's issue................ ...............Wether someone hunts over a feeder is a personal  issue.  However, baiting will continue.



The first statement, if intended to imply that deer populations were low entering the '50's due to a lack of nutrition is completely unfounded and an apparant attempt to mislead.

The deer population in Georgia was low due to indiscriminate abuse of the resource by our forefathers. An abuse that "cornhuggers" (I like that JB!) are trying to bring back to Georgia once again.

The population has rebounded from those aweful days, when it caused a stir in a small town when someone sighted a track, to the strong healthy herd we enjoy today because the hard work and dedication of Georgia's wildlife conservationists of the 50's, 60's and '70's coupled with Georgia's sportsmen, land owners and research universities as they all worked together to protect and promote the resource.

That group of men restocked the deer carefully and then gave us tools to protect the herd so that it could sustain itself in Georgia's natural landscape. They taught us to respect the resource first. They taught us not to hunt at night, not to hunt from roads, and they taught us not to shoot deer over bait among other regulations designed to maintain a healthy, growing population. These rules are the basis of Georgia's hunting heritage and the only reason that we have this resource in Georgia today. Unfortunatly the human nature of selfgratification, as witnessed through the attitudes of some here, would have earased the hard work of these dedicated conservationist pioneers.

As for the last two sentences, this is certainly not "a personal issue". It is an issue that deals with the resource and how it is cared for. The only people who see it a "a personal issue" are those who put themselves and their quest for selfgratification ahead of the concern for the health and future of Georgia's wonderful resource.

Sure baiting will continue. Poachers will always be among us. All we can do is be viligent in our efforts to weed thm out.

Is corn bad? 

Evidently cornfever harms humans ability to reason effectively.


----------



## huntfish (Oct 2, 2005)

Jeez, 
Jeff, pleaes reread my post.  I may no comments about how the deer rebounded to its present population.  As for baiting, I was simply pointing out another issue that has not been addressed.


BTW - Do you know my stance on baiting?  No you don't but for the record, *I DO NOT * support it.

I've said it before, "The purist attitude within the hunting community will destroy hunting."  People getting introduced into hunting see all this bickering amongst us.  Why should want to continue?  Maybe that is a contributing factor in the decrease in hunters?  Think about it.


----------



## Heathen (Oct 2, 2005)

JBowers said:
			
		

> Who? The Wildlife Agency or the Politicans. Complete prohibition is what was recommended by the Wildlife Agency. However, as we all know, politicians always know best.
> 
> [/i]
> 
> ...


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 3, 2005)

huntfish said:
			
		

> I've said it before, "The purist attitude within the hunting community will destroy hunting."  People getting introduced into hunting see all this bickering amongst us.  Why should want to continue?  Maybe that is a contributing factor in the decrease in hunters?  Think about it.



I second that  




			
				JBowers said:
			
		

> Last question is a good one, for the cornhuggers! Why don’t they boil that deer corn or cream that deer corn and feed it to their families? I guess they could be hypocritical too! Surely, buying it in bulk would save a lot of family grocery money



feed corn just don't taste as good as Sweet Corn   Actually feed corn don’t have any taste, very bland and tastes like eating sticks or a tooth pick


----------



## labman (Oct 3, 2005)

SADDADDY said:
			
		

> I second that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## NotaVegetarian (Oct 3, 2005)

I think corn is pretty good, my favorite is on the cobb with butter, a little salt and pepper...... MMMMmmmmm good


----------



## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 3, 2005)

NotaVEGGIEtarian?!?!

Surely you would not partake without a side order of meat?!?!?!


----------



## MoeBirds (Oct 3, 2005)

*Long before there was an Internet/Information Superhighway, there was...*

...simply communication.

...and sadly it went something like this:

Dang Gomer,

Don you know there's no such thang as Aflotoxins!!!

that thare's just made up stuff from the DMV.....heck if'n corns so bad why aren't there dead deer all over Texas an Florida and South Caroliner?!

and as a matter of fact if'n the deer are in such a danger as to have em hangin around a feeder or a bait pile, thens why dont the DMV goand cut down alls the whiteoaks since the deers eat under them too!?

dem deers eat the corn outs of the fields and don dies now do they???...I mean yeah the fields are huge and they aint so close whiles they is uh eatin it but .....anyways I jus wanna do wats I wanna do and I don want no Govarnment man tellin me what ta do!!!



...heck, even seen em ..three bucks justa chasin a doe anda lickin and scratchin each other, how come that's allowed and we can't have em stand still long enough fer us ta shoot em over a bag of corn uh heee, uheee, uheee???!!

Thay should juss make all baitin legal's what I thank an nite huntin too!!

ah...ethics schmethics....

..Who cares if'n a mess a turkeys die eatin contaminatered corn?!....I'muh gonna kill em anyways aint I ?!?


Sadly it seems, we haven't come very far.


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 3, 2005)

*That's classic*

you're killing me over here


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 3, 2005)

*Back on topic*

And to answer the original question  

Is corn Bad?

No


----------



## JBowers (Oct 4, 2005)

> Sadly it seems, we haven't come very far.


 
And, the Gentleman so speaks for himself.


Is corn bad?

Depends.


----------



## General Lee (Oct 4, 2005)

Corn is not bad.


----------



## NotaVegetarian (Oct 5, 2005)

It gives my cousin Gas, Now that is bad


----------



## Larry Rooks (Oct 5, 2005)

Feeding deer ain't bad, otherwise, the Texas herd would be gone and hunters would not be paying upwards of 3000.00 for a few days hunting, a chance to get one of their big old Trophy Bucks that corn has hurt.  And Ohio, another state that it is legal, man O man do they have some mighty fine Bucks and strong deer herd up their.  And I do beleive Canada is also a place of feeding and they have a reputation for some of the largest bodied deer in 
existance with HUGE racks


----------



## scshep2002 (Oct 5, 2005)

Are we still on this subject lol IS CORN BAD? HECK NO I feeds us, makes the deer tastier, and it good all around!! That is my scientific findings


----------



## Madsnooker (Oct 5, 2005)

Larry, 

I hunt Ohio almost every year with my Father-in-Law. You are correct that baiting is legal but I've never heard of anyone using corn as just about every county is nothing but corn fields. Those that do bait however, almost always use apples. It's amazing at the # of hunters you will see parked in someones front yard with a five gallon bucket picking up apples that have fallen of the trees.


----------



## Swamprat (Oct 5, 2005)

that thare's just made up stuff from the DMV.....heck if'n corns so bad why aren't there dead deer all over Texas an Florida and South Caroliner?!

Baiting is not legal in Florida. Texas and South Carolina...Yes

I have a buddy who hunts in Texas every year and he says that on every place he has hunted they will have a truck ride through the senderos with a spin cast spreader mounted on the bumper flinging corn. These people who pay 2500 and up ain't about to walk in all the cactus and mesquite so the bring the deer to them.

Watch hunting videos that were filmed in Texas and the guy is in a tower stand overlooking a 400 yard long lane and there is 15 deer out there feeding. They ain't eating apples or carrots.

Just like a human all wild animals know what is bad to eat and good to eat. If they did not like corn then they would never flock to a just harvested corn field or spend the time tearing down the stalks to get at the ears of corn.


----------



## NotaVegetarian (Oct 5, 2005)

Madsnooker said:
			
		

> Those that do bait however, almost always use apples. It's amazing at the # of hunters you will see parked in someones front yard with a five gallon bucket picking up apples that have fallen of the trees.



I can see it now a new thread!!!

Are Apples Bad??   or    Is Corn in my food plot bait?  or

If I drop my peanut butter sandwich, is that baiting?


----------



## huntfish (Oct 5, 2005)

Swamprat said:
			
		

> that thare's just made up stuff from the DMV.....heck if'n corns so bad why aren't there dead deer all over Texas an Florida and South Caroliner?!
> 
> Baiting is not legal in Florida. Texas and South Carolina...Yes
> 
> ...


Swamp Rat,
If you are talking Sendoros, No apple trees or carrots will grow in the south Texas region.  Its not the cactus or mesquite that is the problem but the dang agarita bushes will rip you to threads.  BTW, if your bud is paying $2500, he is getting a deal.  My friends who are game managers in the Golden Triangle wouldn't even let someone shoot a managment buck (140) for that.  Hunting rights with guide, without trophy fees, range from $3-5K for 4 days.


----------



## Heathen (Oct 5, 2005)

Larry Rooks said:
			
		

> Feeding deer ain't bad, otherwise, the Texas herd would be gone and hunters would not be paying upwards of 3000.00 for a few days hunting, a chance to get one of their big old Trophy Bucks that corn has hurt.  And Ohio, another state that it is legal, man O man do they have some mighty fine Bucks and strong deer herd up their.  And I do beleive Canada is also a place of feeding and they have a reputation for some of the largest bodied deer in
> existance with HUGE racks


Well one reason the deer in Canada has such big bodies is that they have to pack on the weight in order to make it through the harsh winters. Also there are hundreds of thousands of acres of vast wilderness. Not like most of the US where the deer have to compete with people, cities, towns, suburbs... you get the point I'm sure. These spots you have named also have deer that have tested positive for CWD as well unlike here in GA. so far.


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 5, 2005)

people do bait in Georgia probaly more so than people want to believe  

like stated in another thread local feed stores can't keep enough corn in stock to keep up with the demand  

so someone has to be feeding these deer somewhere in Ga. and it is alot more common but not talked about practice between fellow hunters around the state


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 5, 2005)

huntfish said:
			
		

> BTW, if your bud is paying $2500, he is getting a deal.



yeah they do get a great deal, they been hunting with the same land owner as I can remember for about 25 years now   but they lease the land and split the cost up between the family and spend a week or two out there, and man they kill some bigguns every year


----------



## Madsnooker (Oct 6, 2005)

Heathen,

I'm not aware of any deer testing positive for CWD in Ohio. Even if there has in fact been a case it's not because of baiting.


----------



## Madsnooker (Oct 6, 2005)

NOTAVEGETARIAN,

I can assure you, apples are not bad. When I get to Ohio in a few weeks the first place I'm heading is "the old house" as we call it. It is an old plantation style house that has not been lived in since the 50's. It was a mansion in it's day. It is all grown up around it but there are still old apple trees behind it. Most do not produce but there are 2 that do. When they are loaded you cannot imagine the sign around them.


----------



## scshep2002 (Oct 6, 2005)

Apples up north are the persimmons of the south. Find a nice big apple tree droppin and it is just a matter of time!!!! Wonder i I throw out a bushel of apples here in Fl if it will work lol mix it with some corn and wala instant deer sightings


----------



## Larry Rooks (Oct 6, 2005)

Madsnooker
If you pour a little fertilizer around those apple trees they may produce more for you next year.  It helps around here anyway, as does pruning them back some.  It seems that if I don't prune them, I get no apples, if I do, the crop is much better


----------



## Al White (Oct 6, 2005)

Here's my take on this:
If feeding deer corn is bad for them, then there wouldn't be many deer here today.  MOST everyone at one time or another has put out corn for the sole purpose of attracting deer to an area.  I'm not saying that everyone has hunted over corn, so don't jump on that wagon.  I'm just saying that with the increased use of trail cams, supplemental feeding, etc, that alot of people have done it, or still do.  
The issue with hunting deer over bait is a whole different ballgame.  You can plant a field of corn, rotary mow it down, and hunt over it all season long.  You can plant a field of clover and hunt it all season long.  Foodplots that are planted for deer can be hunted.  Is this baiting?  The sole purpose of putting the plots there, assuming that they are hunted plots, is to hunt them.  Right?  You are basically drawing a deer into a location by providing some form of food for them.  Someone tell me what would be different in having a feeding station out in front of you than having a food plot out in front of you while hunting?  Both are there to provide the deer with food, you put both of them there, and the sole purpose of putting them there would be to shoot a deer.  I am not talking about management plots that aren't hunted, I am talking about a food plot in front of a stand.   
Maybe we should start a thread about the pros/cons of baiting fish!!  Should we bait our hooks when fishing?


----------



## horsecreek (Oct 6, 2005)

great reply al!!!!!

cant wait for the replies on those who preach about the difference.  
your right, there is NO difference in cutting a field of corn and hunting it\a feed station of corn---a feild of corn isnt there all year long....

but most get upset about it cause it takes more effort to make a food plot so that makes it ok. Im for both of them.

very few can do a yr round food plot system. space ect. NOT up to them to look down on others who do what they can, esp if you feed year round from your feeder.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 6, 2005)

Oh yea! That's right!

Fish bait and corn are exactly the same!


----------



## horsecreek (Oct 6, 2005)

you use corn for fish bait? hum, hows that work?


----------



## orion1mdl (Oct 6, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Oh yea! That's right!
> 
> Fish bait and corn are exactly the same!


I guess it could be Jeff. Think about it. Your in the middle of your backcast, and you have a few kernnels of corn on your hook for trout, and just then a big ol buck charges out of the woods and snatches the corn on your hook!  Hope you got your drag set right or he's goin' to spool ya!


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 6, 2005)

horsecreek said:
			
		

> you use corn for fish bait? hum, hows that work?


It works pretty good for chumming up mullet


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 6, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Oh yea! That's right!
> 
> Fish bait and corn are exactly the same!



NO.. but according to your theory.. you end up with the same results.. something dead


----------



## Heathen (Oct 6, 2005)

Madsnooker said:
			
		

> Heathen,
> 
> I'm not aware of any deer testing positive for CWD in Ohio. Even if there has in fact been a case it's not because of baiting.


Well maybe you should let the experts know this since they have not actually figured out how CWD started and exactally all the ways it is transmitted. I'm sure they would love to have that piece of info since you seem to know that that is not a way of it spreading.


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 6, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> Well maybe you should let the experts know this since they have not actually figured out how CWD started and exactally all the ways it is transmitted. I'm sure they would love to have that piece of info since you seem to know that that is not a way of it spreading.



What makes you so sure it is??


----------



## Heathen (Oct 6, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> What makes you so sure it is??


Never said it was, but how can you hoestly say it doesn't when you don't know for sure?


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 6, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> Never said it was, but how can you hoestly say it doesn't when you don't know for sure?


I never said it dosn't


----------



## Heathen (Oct 6, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> I never said it dosn't


You florida boys always gotta try and start something don't ya?


----------



## Swamprat (Oct 6, 2005)

Heeyyyyy. I'm a Florida boy and I ain't started anything.

All I know is this thread is lasting longer than the growing season for corn.   

If Orville Reddenbacher says it's good then it's good.


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 6, 2005)




----------



## Heathen (Oct 6, 2005)

Swamprat said:
			
		

> Heeyyyyy. I'm a Florida boy and I ain't started anything.
> 
> :


Well your brother does, but I guess his name says it all........JUST 1 MORE........


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 6, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> Well your brother does, but I guess his name says it all........JUST 1 MORE........


I don't have a brother


----------



## Swamprat (Oct 6, 2005)

Just One More ain't my brother..... Saddaddy is though


----------



## SADDADDY (Oct 6, 2005)

Swamprat said:
			
		

> Just One More ain't my brother..... Saddaddy is though




only when he fills my feeders up  then I call him Brother


----------



## horsecreek (Oct 7, 2005)

heathen, 

your reaching real, real far out there on that one.  if this\what if that...

if its not a fact guys, dont quote it as such.


----------



## Todd E (Oct 7, 2005)

Originaly asked question, "Is corn bad?"



NOPE.


----------



## scshep2002 (Oct 7, 2005)

Corn is wonderful. Corn is great. Support your local feed store!!! They gotsta eat to ya know lol


----------



## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

Still haven't gotten an answer for the questions that I asked, come on guys - fire away!


----------



## scshep2002 (Oct 7, 2005)

No corn is not bad for deer. While it may not be the most healthy item out there they love it like candy. Just like a kid with a snickers bar, all in moderation


----------



## Just 1 More (Oct 7, 2005)

Al White said:
			
		

> Still haven't gotten an answer for the questions that I asked, come on guys - fire away!


What question?? The one about not baiting hooks for fishing??


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

Heh,   yeah the fishing one, and this one-Someone tell me what would be different in having a feeding station out in front of you than having a food plot out in front of you while hunting? Both are there to provide the deer with food, you put both of them there, and the sole purpose of putting them there would be to shoot a deer.


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 7, 2005)

Ok you are settled high in your stand; in your pack you have four apples.  You have been sitting there a while and you decide to eat one of your apples.  When you are finished you just toss the core to the ground.  After a short while you start thinking man that was a good apple, and you decide to have another.  While you are fishing in your pack for the next apple you drop all but one of the apples from your pack to the ground below your stand.  You casually eat your one remaining apple, and you toss the core to the ground.  

Here is my question.  If the DNR officer shows up, they see where you have dropped the apples, and tossed the cores.  Now are you baiting?  Will they believe you accidentally dropped the other two apples?


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

Notaveg,
I see that your signature is eating.......popCORN!!!!


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## QuakerBoy (Oct 7, 2005)

NotaVegetarian said:
			
		

> Ok you are settled high in your stand; in your pack you have four apples.  You have been sitting there a while and you decide to eat one of your apples.  When you are finished you just toss the core to the ground.  After a short while you start thinking man that was a good apple, and you decide to have another.  While you are fishing in your pack for the next apple you drop all but one of the apples from your pack to the ground below your stand.  You casually eat your one remaining apple, and you toss the core to the ground.
> 
> Here is my question.  If the DNR officer shows up, they see where you have dropped the apples, and tossed the cores.  Now are you baiting?  Will they believe you accidentally dropped the other two apples?




I don't understand what this has to do with the original question....is corn bad?


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## Larry Rooks (Oct 7, 2005)

More than likely, DNR will write a citation for hunting over bait.  It would depend on the Ranger and his/her flexibility.
Some, yea, they would write you in a heart beat, other I know would tell ya that it is baiting and not do it any more.

Al
Getting to you question, operating a feeder out in front of your stand or a nice and lush food plot in front of your stand.  BOTH have ONE purpose, to draw the deer in front of your stand so you can shoot it, NO if's, ands, or buts about it, the sole purpose of either is to hunt over.

There will those that say that there is a difference, simply because the food plot is legal and the feeder is not, BUT, both for the sole purpoise if drawing the deer within shooting range


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 7, 2005)

Thanks for re-directing us back to topic RP!

Out of all these pages of mull, I'll chose the following answer:

Depends.


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

Larry,

Good to hear that I'm not the only one that see's it that way.  I do not hunt over bait, well other than foodplots, and never have.  But, we have feeders out year round, mostly feeding corn.  I personally don't see any harm in feeding deer, or wildlife for that matter.  If it becomes legal to "bait" deer in the near future, I would be all for it.
As for the anti baiting crowd - I'd like to see some valid, facts about why baiting deer with corn is bad?  Maybe it's me, but I am yet to see  anything but opinions - including mine.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 7, 2005)

Well, here you go Al! It isn't specifically about corn but it is relevant to your request:


• Research has consistently shown that artificially feeding deer alters their natural foraging behavior, which results in changes in deer movement and distribution patterns (Schmitz, 1990). One behavior change frequently observed with deer baiting is increased nocturnal activity (Charles, 1993). A study of captive deer in Michigan documented that a majority of feeding at supplemental food sources occurred at night, and daytime feeding was almost nonexistent (Ozoga and Verme, 1982). In Texas a controlled study of similar baited and non-baited hunting stands indicated the use of baited stands by deer became more nocturnal as the hunting season progressed (Wegner, 1993). It was also noted that deer, especially mature bucks, learn quickly to avoid baited sites during daylight hours. Incidentally most of the bucks (77%) harvested from baited stands were yearlings. A Mississippi study also reported that the daylight activity of bucks decreased as the number of bait sites increased (Wegner, 1993).

•*Garner (2001) monitored 160 radio-collared deer for 2 fall/winter periods in northern Michigan and documented their behavior over feeding sites using both telemetry and direct observations. He demonstrated that, relative to natural forage, supplemental feeding caused reduced home range sizes, increased overlap of home ranges in space and time and dramatic concentrations of activity around feeding sites.

•*Drs. Tim Ginnett and Susan Cooper, studying deer behavior recently at the Uvalde, Texas Experiment Station, found that deer with feeders had a core area of only half the size (133 acres) of those with no feeder (247 acres). They concluded that supplemented deer still browse, use portions of their home range more intensively, and could cause habitat deterioration near the feeders.

•*Increased nocturnal activity has been attributed to deer baiting in Texas (Synatzke, 1981).

•*A Mississippi study noted that 90% of bait station use by bucks was during non-legal shooting hours and over 84% of total use occurred during darkness (Jacobson and Darrow, 1992).

•*In areas dominated by small land ownerships, baiting affects surrounding landowners and hunt clubs by changing deer movements. Adjoining clubs may attempt to "hold deer" on their property (Georgia Department of Natural Resources, 1992). Baiting on public lands is detrimental because it creates hunter conflicts.

•*The spatial distribution of animals can be altered so that population density is significantly increased in the vicinity of the food source (Boutin, 1990; Schmidt and Gossow, 1991; Easton, 1993; Tarr and Perkins, 2002). As animals converge toward focal food sources, their normal daily or seasonal movements can be disrupted (Baker and Hobbs, 1985; Lewis, 1990; Paquet, 1991; Fersterer et al., 2001).


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## QuakerBoy (Oct 7, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Well, here you go Al! It isn't specifically about corn but it is relevant to your request:
> 
> 
> • Research has consistently shown that artificially feeding deer alters their natural foraging behavior, which results in changes in deer movement and distribution patterns (Schmitz, 1990). One behavior change frequently observed with deer baiting is increased nocturnal activity (Charles, 1993). A study of captive deer in Michigan documented that a majority of feeding at supplemental food sources occurred at night, and daytime feeding was almost nonexistent (Ozoga and Verme, 1982). In Texas a controlled study of similar baited and non-baited hunting stands indicated the use of baited stands by deer became more nocturnal as the hunting season progressed (Wegner, 1993). It was also noted that deer, especially mature bucks, learn quickly to avoid baited sites during daylight hours. Incidentally most of the bucks (77%) harvested from baited stands were yearlings. A Mississippi study also reported that the daylight activity of bucks decreased as the number of bait sites increased (Wegner, 1993).
> ...



You're getting off topic again....don't make me come down there


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 7, 2005)

Come on down Yank! We'll have a bowl of cheese grits and a cold beer!

BTW, notice how I got back on topic? Grits is corn and it's good!


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## QuakerBoy (Oct 7, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Come on down Yank! We'll have a bowl of cheese grits and a cold beer!
> 
> BTW, notice how I got back on topic? Grits is corn and it's good!




In that case...corn is Bad...(insert puking icon here)


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## Heathen (Oct 7, 2005)

horsecreek said:
			
		

> heathen,
> 
> your reaching real, real far out there on that one.  if this\what if that...
> 
> if its not a fact guys, dont quote it as such.


Well from what I've read it is a strong possibility of how diseases are spread through deer. You can't say that it's not true can you?   I never quoted any thing I'm just saying we don't know for a fact, ya'll boys from FL. seem to be the ones disputing it the most. Maybe cause ya'll can bait with corn down there?   No I'm not reaching far out there  cause it's not that far from being a possibility.


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## Just 1 More (Oct 7, 2005)

Well Jeff... I see a lot about altering deers activity (which is the goal of food plots and feeders) but nothing in regards to corn being bad


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## Just 1 More (Oct 7, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> Well from what I've read it is a strong possibility of how diseases are spread through deer. You can't say that it's not true can you?   I never quoted any thing I'm just saying we don't know for a fact, ya'll boys from FL. seem to be the ones disputing it the most. Maybe cause ya'll can bait with corn down there?   No I'm not reaching far out there  cause it's not that far from being a possibility.



I don't care where I live .. I don't bait with corn.. I do suplemental feeding durning the off season and put in a lot of time and work and $$$$ in to food plots for year round feeding.. heck.. I don't even hunt in FL.

And if you want to talk about disease.. YES.. deer feeding from a "bait station" have the possibility to spread a disease from one deer to another .. but it's no diferent than when they lick each other (which they do quite frequently) or feed from the same fallen acorns and persimmons or muscadines.. or (insert natural food of choice)


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## CAL (Oct 7, 2005)

This is the longest thread that I have seen here.I know it is the longest one that has accomplished nothing.Beating a dead horse ain't even in this picture.


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## Just 1 More (Oct 7, 2005)

CAL said:
			
		

> This is the longest thread that I have seen here.I know it is the longest one that has accomplished nothing.Beating a dead horse ain't even in this picture.


Aww come on.. it's only 15 pages and I like my horse tender.. very tender


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 7, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> Well Jeff... I see a lot about altering deers activity (which is the goal of food plots and feeders) but nothing in regards to corn being bad



Just 1,

I don't know of anyone that plants a foodplot so that they can make their deer more nocturnal thus resulting in lower harvest of deer overall and an increase in small young bucks being harvested. (Read the research)

When you start pulling the trigger over the foodplot or feeder the deer learn very quickly, as shown by the research listed above, and lower harvest rates of mature deer will result.

Al asked for some evidence as to why baiting with corn is bad and I have provided a little evidence. It doesn't really matter if it's corn or goat chow.

I did post this evidence realizing that most of the "cornhuggers" (JB I still like that one) don't want to hear it. They simply want to go on with their heads in the sand and that is fine. Those of us that disagree will continue to do what we know is neccessary to protect our resource. However, Al did ask for the info and I can only assume that he was sincere in his request.

CAL, 

My apologies. I know that all of this has been hashed and re-hashed and sifted and recycled but as long as folks ask for information we need to answer their questions.


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## Just 1 More (Oct 7, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> When you start pulling the trigger over the foodplot or feeder the deer learn very quickly, as shown by the research listed above, and lower harvest rates of mature deer will result..



I'll agree that the result of killing deer over feeders or food plots will alter their activities,, however,, I don't see how having food plots will change much of anything if left alone. 
Actually,, The same could be said for overhunting the same treestand or killing deer continuosly off the same white oak ridge

Just so you know.. none of my replies ahve been meant as argumentative,, just my opinions and another view to the debate..


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 7, 2005)

Just 1,

I think we can and should be able to discuss these matters without "being arguementative" and believe we have been doing so...........for the most part.

BTW, jest fer the record, I ain't no big advacate of foodplots either. Been there! Done that! Didn't get a thrill.

I think most of us would have a whole big bunch more fun if we just got back to picking up our weapon and going into the woods and hunt.

It is much less stressfull and much more fulfilling when you suceed.

Who cares if corn, goat chow or foodlots is good fer deer? Nature is great fer deer!

Just hunt!


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## SADDADDY (Oct 7, 2005)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> I think most of us would have a whole big bunch more fun if we just got back to picking up our weapon and going into the woods and hunt.
> 
> It is much less stressfull and much more fulfilling when you suceed.
> 
> ...



Amen Jeff  

that is the best reply I seen for this Thread


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

Thanks for the info Jeff.  I'm still looking for any insight though as to how corn is bad, healthwise, for a deer herd?  Not trying to be a wise guy by any means, just lookin for some info!  I will agree that feeding alters a deer's movement and possibly homerange, but - making them nocturnal?  Not sure bout that one.  Hunting pressure definitely will!


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## bull0ne (Oct 7, 2005)

I know i should'nt do this but i'll do it anyway......as far as disease spreading & corn feeding,take an acre food plot with 10 deer feeding on it everyday.....theroretically 43560 sq. feet per acre  divided by 10 deer =4356 sq. ft. per deer to forage on.

Take a feeder casting into a 10 x 10 area=100 sq. feet......place the same 10 deer under the feeder every night...well,you do the math.

In the event CWD infects one deer which scenario would you rather have in your hunting area?

With the feeding pressure spread over a plot the soil has time to naturally sterilize......under a feeder with no vegatation it does not.

Would any human eat off the same plate every day without washing it?  

Bottom line......put too many mammals in a confined place & disease will flourish....be it deer, humans or dogs. 

If you must feed use a stainless steel/free choice feeder which is much less likely to spread disease or place the feed on welldrained soil which gets some sunlight &  place the feed in a different place each time....nearby but not in the same torn up spot.

Just my take on the situation......its well worth what everyone paid for it too....


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## Heathen (Oct 7, 2005)

bull0ne said:
			
		

> I know i should'nt do this but i'll do it anyway......as far as disease spreading & corn feeding,take an acre food plot with 10 deer feeding on it everyday.....theroretically 43560 sq. feet per acre  divided by 10 deer =4356 sq. ft. per deer to forage on.
> 
> Take a feeder casting into a 10 x 10 area=100 sq. feet......place the same 10 deer under the feeder every night...well,you do the math.
> 
> ...


The point have have tried to make in previous threads, but your way of putting it maybe folks will understand better. I know some folks will still not understand though no matter how you try to explain it.


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## scshep2002 (Oct 7, 2005)

Jeff you are a philosopher and a gentleman!! The best response on here to date!!!!


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## csgreen1 (Oct 7, 2005)

Looks to me a feeder can be moved around dont think you can move a foodplot so that dog wont hunt.


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## Heathen (Oct 7, 2005)

csgreen1 said:
			
		

> Looks to me a feeder can be moved around dont think you can move a foodplot so that dog wont hunt.


You totally missed Bullone's point or maybe you are no good at math.  A food plot is usually just a tad bigger than the area a feeder would cover, if not then you are wasting your time planting a food plot that small.


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 7, 2005)

So using the “math” as provided.  Would this mean the deer hunts in Texas where GA hunters pay several thousands of GA earned dollars to hunt (harvest) a 140 class or better Texas whitetail will be infected with something?  Because they are feeding under either a feeder slinging corn, or a roadbed covered in corn, when they are taken?

To me it is a mute point  .   Yes Al I am a corn eater, and so was the cow I had for dinner.  

Paul,

You are right to spank   me, I did get off subject, but what if?  

Al,
I am off to the feed store “I mean grain bin” it is finally raining and time for me to plant some more “Bait Plots” I mean food plots.  Will corn grow this time of year?  If y’all think it will I will plant some of it too.


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

I agree that IF CWD were to somehow come to Ga, then a feeding station for deer would help spread the disease.  So would deer gathering at a waterhole....or under a whiteoak tree.  Like notaveg said - Why do they do this in Texas?  I know alot of people that go there hunting, and they see lots of deer.  That corn they feed out there must be doing something good - right?  Everyone has their own opinion, the above is just mine.  There is no way that everyone will ever agree on this issue, I'm just throwing in my 2 cents on it.


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## bull0ne (Oct 7, 2005)

NotaVegetarian said:
			
		

> So using the “math” as provided.  Would this mean the deer hunts in Texas where GA hunters pay several thousands of GA earned dollars to hunt (harvest) a 140 class or better Texas whitetail will be infected with something?  Because they are feeding under either a feeder slinging corn, or a roadbed covered in corn, when they are taken?
> 
> To me it is a mute point  .   Yes Al I am a corn eater, and so was the cow I had for dinner.
> 
> :



If you will  notice a spinner type feeder is going by the wayside in many commerdial feeder/hunting operations and being replaced by stainless steel feeders which do not spread disease nearly as bad......corn spread down a sendero works on the same principle as a plot,the ground can sterilize over time.

The deer herd in the bait states will be hardest hit when ....not if...CWD infects the herd.

BTW...the cow you are having for dinner was fed medicated feed in the feedout lot as a preventive.......because they all eat out of the same trough.


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 7, 2005)

I know exactly where my beef comes from and it ain’t Winn Dixie do you know where yours comes from?  I will ask Shane if he feeds the cows “medicated” feed.  I know we inoculate them because I help.  I know what they do to Chickens and to that point I have not eaten any chicken in about 10 years.  Do you eat Chicken?  Do you really know what is in the feed, and medication given to the chicken you have been eating?  At least deer getting supplemental feed from a feeder filled with corn, or what ever is not getting medicated feed.  Maybe we need to start medicating the corn sold at WalMart, they sell a bunch of it they can’t keep it in the isle now so it must be going some where.  I would bet some folks on this board are buying it and putting it out in hopes deer would eat it, either in a spin cast feeder, a trough, or just flat out piling it on the ground.


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## Swamprat (Oct 7, 2005)

Mr Young hit it square on.  

I remember when i was in high school and hunted public land during archery season, we would sleep on the ground under our trucks. we never thought about the hardship since we could never afford a lease but we thought of it as the experience and had a blast.

I think the majority of the hunting population is so caught up in the horn thing they have lost sight of the reason why we hunt. It is not all about the antlers but about the woods, seeing wildlife, spending time with friends and family around a camp fire and congratulating a fellow hunter on his harvest whether it is a doe, spike, 4 point, or a monster buck.

Do not lose sight of our right to hunt and take it so serious that our children and grand children will have to shell out some serious jack in order to do something we took for granted. Remember hunting is a privilege not a guaranteed right.


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## Swamprat (Oct 7, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> You totally missed Bullone's point or maybe you are no good at math.  A food plot is usually just a tad bigger than the area a feeder would cover, if not then you are wasting your time planting a food plot that small.



ask ol Coondog. he plants some small plots by hand in some remote areas and has good results. Don't know if it is bigger than a feeder slinging area but also I don't care. That is how he chooses to hunt and has probably forgotten more about hunting than we will ever know.

Remeber if we have a right to hunt then we have a right as to how we hunt. We might agree or disagree with their methods but that makes them no less or a better hunter that we are.


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## Al White (Oct 7, 2005)

A fellow GoNetworker posted this on the site message board.  I asked him if I could share it with the members of this site, and he said yes.  Thanks Dave!

This is long, but well worth the read.

This is from a biologist in Texas, where feeding deer and hunting over it is legal. 

Start of Dave's post:

Mitch Lockwood is a Texas State Deer biologist and also a private lands biologist. He recommends to private land owners what style of herd management to use.


Mitch

First; thank you for answering my questions.

Have you noticed any adverse affects on the deer resources from allowing hunting over bait? No. If anything, the impacts are positive, as bait allows us to harvest more deer from the range – which is badly needed.

Have you seen or read any source that has any scientific facts on stats of baiting stations versus food plots where disease is concerned? No. Many of us (biologists) in Texas do not dismiss food plots from discussions regarding disease concerns. They have similar effects to feeding stations (congregating large numbers of deer, etc.). If disease transmission is the concern, then do not underestimate the impacts of food plots.

Your state seems to be doing well in the hunting over bait or it seems as though it is. It works for us. Our hunters simply use bait as another tool for population control (Some could argue disease control as well, as it allows you to reduce the deer density, and thus, reduce disease-transmission rates.) I have very limited resources to search from to find the data I would like to see so asking you these questions is the closest I can get for some real information and answers.

Thank you,

Dave 

Mitch’s answers are in blue.

Texas biologists research deer genetics (my comments are in Blue in the below sections of the article)
Oct 9, 2003
Kerryville Daily Times

Since 1974, Texas Parks and Wildlife biologists have managed white-tailed deer herds in a set of high-fenced pens at Kerr Wildlife Management Area. The herd of 320 deer has been used to study effects of nutrition and genetics on deer development in a number of multi-year studies. This is of course a high fenced in area, this study is selective but does show effects non the less of a good management plan including FS.

With selective siring, the 1990s study was able to reduce the number of 1 1/2-year spikes in the managed herd from 33 percent to 20 percent between 1995 and 1996, Lockwood said. I can’t tell you how many spikes I’ve seen in the past seven years, at one point that’s all I thought Georgia had. This is not the case however as the hunting lease I am in now has some very nice deer but has SF and FS and food plots as well as a well managed deer harvest program. I am sure that all of us would like to see 8 pointers or better and it is possible with FS, SF, and food plots and hunting over bait possibly. The feeding stations are not utilized during hunting season and are usually emptied well before hunting season starts.

Lockwood and other private lands biologists offer the information acquired at the Kerr WMA studies to landowners looking for ways to better manage their land and the deer that roam on it. Where can we find this type of information, do we have biologists like this at our disposal? This would be an excellent tool for us to increase the quality of deer in Georgia.

Genetics forms one part of a three-pronged approach to herd improvement, Lockwood said. Habitat and herd age are other equally important elements. Maintaining young deer from stronger sires improves the overall herd quality, he said. As Mitch states (paraphrasing) hunting over bait would allow low quality deer to be culled from the herd instead of them planting their genes in the gene pool allowing for a more productive deer herd.

Texas Plains Region News
Oct 21 04

Pineywoods Texas

This year's mast crop in East Texas is looking pretty good, not a bumper crop, but extensive enough to provide a mainstay food source for deer and because the acorns are falling early. Jasper-based district biologist Gary Calkins believes hunters should not expect to see much activity around feeders. During years where Mother Nature takes care of the forage FS, SF, and food plots are all only additives. During these years if hunting over bait was allowed would be just like it is now where we are not allowed to hunt over bait. When the crops are plenty your feed stations, supplemental feeding and food plots would all be less of an enticement for deer and allow the deer to feed more freely reducing some of the pressure of hunting and more so if hunting over bait was allowed.

Texas Deer Association
Jan 05

The time has come for Texas to take a real stand on Chronic Wasting Disease.
There is a testing program, of course. And rules for landowners and breeders. And suggestions for hunters.

But those things seem at this point to be more obstacles and roadblocks along an ever moving line that just doesn't make sense, especially in light of the near panic mode Texas Parks and Wildlife entered following the discovery of CWD in Wisconsin in 2002.
At that time, all imports from other states were stopped while Texas Parks and Wildlife embarked on a plan to look for CWD here and to monitor the slaughter and testing that were going on in Wisconsin. Some Texas breeding operations had received deer from that state, and even though the disease was found in wild deer, the shutdown was imposed.

We've come a long way in the three years since then: self-imposed testing, under pressure by TPWD, by a large number of Texas breeders, with no Chronic Wasting Disease; testing of wild deer by Texas Parks and Wildlife, under pressure from breeders and hunters, with no Chronic Wasting Disease; extensive testing by private landowners wishing to use the state's
Triple T program to reduce deer numbers, with no Chronic Wasting Disease.
The Texas Animal Health Commission and Texas Parks and Wildlife both say that more testing is needed to be sure. Only by continuing to test throughout Texas can scientists say for certain that Chronic Wasting Disease doesn't exist in Texas. Not one case of CWD with all the feeding stations and hunting over bait that is allowed in their state happened (yet). I think CWD will eventually affect all states it seems as if it is the AIDS of the animal world and not enough is known about this disease to help cure it. Texas has a lot more hunters than does Georgia, both resident and non-resident, all of which I am sure hunt over some type of feeding station. While CWD has not been identified in Texas (yet) it is interesting to note that our fear is it will happen here possibly because of allowing hunters to hunt over bait. 

As Mitch points out in an answer to one of my questions; the herd can be managed better using baiting as it allows hunters to cull low quality deer. It will also allow hunters to shoot high quality deer. This seems to me a beneficially mutual issue barring ethics and morals. I think a lot of the discussion of hunting over bait is passion on both sides with the ethics side winning out simply because we probably know those who hunt over bait already do it and do it because they are unethical hunters and may hunt at night “those type of hunters” road hunters, etc.

I wanted to try and give input for all hunters to read to make a call based on some real information from a State that already does this. Speculation can be as bad as assuming and without real stats (which really aren’t factual solid facts) the argument tends to sway to ethics more so than “is this a tool or a toy”.

I am not arguing with anyone here, I am stating my comments and trying to be open minded about things. Allowing the members here to hear from someone else who is using this method and studying it and giving this information to us for decision making abilities.

The public meetings held for hunting over bait had hunters who wanted it stating a view or “because they want it” and not having any firm ground to stand on as to why they wanted it left them looking like unethical hunters. While I don’t believe those who want to hunt over bait are unethical as it seems it has its uses, the fight here is really ethics versus non-ethics. Good versus Evil or as I see it. I hunt with SMK and Berger style bullets both of which are not intended to hunt with but they perform the same as a ballistic tip does but to those who are ethical hunters I would be shunned. I have never lost a deer with this style bullet but I have help track deer who were shot with “hunting style bullets” and never found them. Coincidence or poor shot placement we will never know as they weren’t found, as for my deer, I found them dead where they were shot.
That’s my rant on ethics versus non-ethics and my view point on it. If unethical hunters in Texas are culling the herd and creating better quality deer I sure would like some better quality deer here too, wouldn’t you?

Thanks

Dave


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## JBowers (Oct 7, 2005)

Heathen said:
			
		

> I never quoted any thing I'm just saying we don't know for a fact, ya'll boys from FL. seem to be the ones disputing it the most. Maybe cause ya'll can bait with corn down there?


 
And its working out so great down there, that them boys flock by the tens of thousands to come deer hunt in Georgia!  Please come hunt and enjoy it, but we don't need the help!


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## bobcat (Oct 7, 2005)

I think yall all crazy     GA  VS  FLA  CORN VS FOOD PLOT         LIFES SHORT      GO HUNTING


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## SADDADDY (Oct 7, 2005)

*nothing to do about FLA vs. Ga*

bottom line it's to hot down here for CWD  

THAT SOUNDED GOOD DIDN'T IT   

either side will argue till they are blue in the face and either side will continue to do what they think is right, this issue will last as long as hunting is around so we all need to chill out and get back to hunting pure and simple hunting, throw out the QDM, baiting, Food plots and just grab your gun and go hunting


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## Heathen (Oct 8, 2005)

Swamprat said:
			
		

> ask ol Coondog. he plants some small plots by hand in some remote areas and has good results. Don't know if it is bigger than a feeder slinging area but also I don't care. That is how he chooses to hunt and has probably forgotten more about hunting than we will ever know.
> 
> Remeber if we have a right to hunt then we have a right as to how we hunt. We might agree or disagree with their methods but that makes them no less or a better hunter that we are.


Just cause Coodawg plants some remote plots by hand doesn't mean that they are not bigger than what a feeder would spread corn out. If you only planted a 10x10 food plot one or two deer would keep it mowed to the ground so what good would that do. Coondawg knows what he is doing considering he's a wildlife biologist and all even has his own land so don't try to use him as a way of telling me I'm wrong. I have chatted with John several times and have been invited to go hunt his place with him, which I think I just might take him up on it if the offer is still on the table.


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## Heathen (Oct 8, 2005)

JBowers said:
			
		

> And its working out so great down there, that them boys flock by the tens of thousands to come deer hunt in Georgia!  Please come hunt and enjoy it, but we don't need the help!


Ain't that the truth........


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## Son (Oct 8, 2005)

*This thread*

Lot or reading, but all I got out of it is, there's lots of different opinions.


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## SADDADDY (Oct 8, 2005)

JBowers said:
			
		

> And its working out so great down there, that them boys flock by the tens of thousands to come deer hunt in Georgia!  Please come hunt and enjoy it, but we don't need the help!



Good one  but not the case, we as you say "Flock" to Georgia to deer hunt cause we want to  it is more of a $$ issue, lease prices in Florida for years have been so dang high that the majority of the hunters in Florida can not afford $2500 for a poor lease, where we can travel 3-4 hours and pay 1/4 of that amount had have better land to hunt  

Corn or baiting has not one thing to do with any of that, if that was the case that we love to bait deer so much why in the world would we go hunt a state that it is illegal  

pretty soon Georgia will out price it self like Florida did 15+ years ago and where will these people hunt  I don't know to many folks that live in Ga or Fla that can afford a $2500+ a year lease which will lead back to over crowding of WMA's and alot of folks just giving it up.

I don't bait, I don't feed the deer during or after the season, and planted a small little food plot last year that never grew so don't blame those hunters from Fla for all of the baiting issues, feed stores can't keep enough Deer corn to supply the demand so someone's got to be buying it all up and it sure ain't this hunter from florida


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## Just 1 More (Oct 9, 2005)

SADDADDY said:
			
		

> Good one  but not the case, we as you say "Flock" to Georgia to deer hunt cause we want to  it is more of a $$ issue, lease prices in Florida for years have been so dang high that the majority of the hunters in Florida can not afford $2500 for a poor lease, where we can travel 3-4 hours and pay 1/4 of that amount had have better land to hunt
> 
> Corn or baiting has not one thing to do with any of that, if that was the case that we love to bait deer so much why in the world would we go hunt a state that it is illegal
> 
> ...



But SADDADDY,,, If they don't blame Florida hunters ,, who will they blame??? You know they would never consider the FACT that locals are buying and spreading that corn


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## scshep2002 (Oct 9, 2005)

this one got your numbers up SD lol ****


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## SADDADDY (Oct 10, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> But SADDADDY,,, If they don't blame Florida hunters ,, who will they blame??? You know they would never consider the FACT that locals are buying and spreading that corn



very true  

hang around a feed store long enough you'll see who's buying it up


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## scshep2002 (Oct 10, 2005)

HMMMMMMMMMM what county you all live in? Got to stake out the local feed stores lol


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## CAL (Oct 10, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> But SADDADDY,,, If they don't blame Florida hunters ,, who will they blame??? You know they would never consider the FACT that locals are buying and spreading that corn





Now wait er minute Frank,everybody already knows we locals don't feed corn to deer.  Its all those folks from Florida what's doing it.Where you from brother?


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## Paddle (Oct 10, 2005)

*Aflatoxin Levels*

I read somewhere on this forum that wal-mart had the highest aflatoxin in their feed corn. When I looked at the bag it said "less than 20 ppb aflatoxin"(ppb = parts per billon). I didn't know if this was good or bad until I did a search and I found the info below. After reading this makes you wonder about the beef and chicken your getting from the grocery store.     


FDA Action Levels for Aflatoxins
Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has established action levels for aflatoxin present in food or feed to protect human and animal health.* 

Lev      

Levels must not exceed: 

20 ppb - For corn and other grains intended for immature animals (including immature poultry) and for dairy animals, or when its destination is not known; 


20 ppb - For animal feeds, other than corn or cottonseed meal; 


100 ppb - For corn and other grains intended for breeding beef cattle, breeding swine, or mature poultry; 


200 ppb - For corn and other grains intended for finishing swine of 100 pounds or greater; 


300 ppb - For corn and other grains intended for finishing (i.e., feedlot) beef cattle and for cottonseed meal intended for beef cattle, swine or poultry.


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 10, 2005)

Its not the Alfa toxins in corn mixed cattle feed that concerns me.  Have you ever wondered what became of the left over chicken parts?  Have you heard of a Rendering plant?  Now they mix this leftover chicken by product into chicken feed, a practice they stopped on beef because of mad cow disease.  The FDA has never warned you about Mad Chicken disease!!  Should we worry, should we be concerned?  If it can happen to cattle from eating cattle byproducts rendered into feed, then why not to chicken.  I know it is a little off topic, but it is FOOD for thought, and you are not thinking about CORN.


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## Just 1 More (Oct 10, 2005)

CAL said:
			
		

> Now wait er minute Frank,everybody already knows we locals don't feed corn to deer.  Its all those folks from Florida what's doing it.Where you from brother?



YOu know where i'm from..


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## SADDADDY (Oct 10, 2005)

CAL said:
			
		

> Now wait er minute Frank,everybody already knows we locals don't feed corn to deer.  Its all those folks from Florida what's doing it.Where you from brother?




maybe that's why I always see them pull around to the back door  

Hey billy give me 3 bags of chicken feed "Wink Wink"


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 11, 2005)

I planted some corn this weekend on a hill top, lets see if it grows.  If it does I will hunt over it, yes I said I would hunt over corn.


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## Just 1 More (Oct 11, 2005)

NotaVegetarian said:
			
		

> I planted some corn this weekend on a hill top, lets see if it grows.  If it does I will hunt over it, yes I said I would hunt over corn.


HEY,, thats agreat idea... I'll just spread a bunch in my food plots.. You know.. Like top seeding... Can I hunt over it then??


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## scshep2002 (Oct 11, 2005)

We should stop calling it baiting and call it seasoning our catch!!!


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 11, 2005)

I wonder can we get them to eat bell peppers, onions, and some Garlic too!  Then we could call it preseasoned Deer season


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## scshep2002 (Oct 11, 2005)

Green peppers, onions, garlic, corn, lol andhave them wash it down with a little garlic butter sauce from Bass Pro. lol Boy oh boy this posts is gonna go one forever lol **** helps pass the time  Oh yeah plant an herb garden too so they eat up the parsley and sage lol **** ****


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## Al White (Oct 11, 2005)

Reckon they'll drink dales too?


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 11, 2005)

Man this is making me hungry.  Well seasoned deer is hard to beat.  A little herbs, garlic, peppers, with a side of smashed potatoes, green beans and CORN bread, MMMM good.


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## scshep2002 (Oct 11, 2005)

MMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMM Gotta get me one this weekend I am fresh out of last yearrs batch!!!!! 1st fat doe that comes near me saturday is goinin the frying pan now lol **** 

Put out a bowl of dales near the corn pile maybe they will get thirsty or put a bowl of red wine heard it tenderizes the meat lol ****


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## Just 1 More (Oct 11, 2005)

Get a little picnic table... Set out a bowl of Red wine & Dales, sprinkle some corn on the ground in your vegetable garden... maybe some of those estrus scented insense sticks burning in the middle of the table for mood.. a little Tinks hanging off the bushes.. a boquet of daisys as table decor..   
ok.. i'll stop now


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## labman (Oct 11, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> Get a little picnic table... Set out a bowl of Red wine & Dales, sprinkle some corn on the ground in your vegetable garden... maybe some of those estrus scented insense sticks burning in the middle of the table for mood.. a little Tinks hanging off the bushes.. a boquet of daisys as table decor..
> ok.. i'll stop now


Thank you I was starting to get excited a bit.


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 11, 2005)

Just 1 More said:
			
		

> Get a little picnic table... Set out a bowl of Red wine & Dales, sprinkle some corn on the ground in your vegetable garden... maybe some of those estrus scented insense sticks burning in the middle of the table for mood.. a little Tinks hanging off the bushes.. a boquet of daisys as table decor..




This setup should defiantly get a Doe.  You know how the girls are suckers for that romantic stuff


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## SADDADDY (Oct 11, 2005)

NotaVegetarian said:
			
		

> This setup should defiantly get a Doe.  You know how the girls are suckers for that romantic stuff



Don't forget about some soft tunes from your grunt call


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 12, 2005)

What no talk of corn today?

I sure wish my corn food plot would grow faster!


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## 7401R (Oct 12, 2005)

The only thing corn is good for is to make liquor.


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## SADDADDY (Oct 12, 2005)

*We must be slacking*



			
				7401R said:
			
		

> The only thing corn is good for is to make liquor.




How in the world could we over look that wonderful use of corn  

Thanks for throwing in that one   we pretty much covered every other use corn is good for can anyone think of any other uses we may have over looked  

Oh here’s one, oh wait that is the cob, people use to use them in the out house many years ago may not apply these days


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 12, 2005)

Let's all drink to that!!!  Don't drive and drink!! or is that Drank and drive, drove..driven,,driver what ever,,,,,,  

Have they figured out how to pull over a speeding couch..


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 13, 2005)

What else can be made from corn?


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## Just 1 More (Oct 13, 2005)

Wasn't there a guy who created a fuel out of it???


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## scshep2002 (Oct 13, 2005)

OH YEAH Man that was because we all drank enough of it it damaged ourbrains and we forgot for a while what it was made of!!!


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## NotaVegetarian (Oct 13, 2005)

Fuel, Hmmm Bio Corn, Cornaline, CornGas.  I remember a stove burning corn.


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## dixie (Oct 13, 2005)

720 that raises the question, how many gallons do you get a acre of corn?


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## humdandy (Mar 21, 2018)

dixie said:


> 720 that raises the question, how many gallons do you get a acre of corn?



Irrigated corn?


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Mar 23, 2018)

Corny


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## jesnic (Mar 23, 2018)

dixie said:


> 720 that raises the question, how many gallons do you get a acre of corn?



150 bushels per acre
2.8- 5.85 gallons ethanol per acre depending on corn quality


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## jesnic (Mar 23, 2018)

dixie said:


> 720 that raises the question, how many gallons do you get a acre of corn?



150 bushels per acre
2.8- 5.85 gallons ethanol per acre depending on corn quality


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