# Funny and Sad at the same time.



## SemperFiDawg (Jan 24, 2017)

http://www.christianpost.com/news/f...arishioner-finds-him-in-bed-with-wife-173358/


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## Israel (Jan 24, 2017)

They watch on, evil, incredibly stupid, enjoying my destruction. "Poor Grendel's had an accident," I whisper. "So may you all."


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## centerpin fan (Jan 24, 2017)

> Claynisha said her husband stated that he "should have shot Simmons and expose him." He also threatened to expose him on Facebook and show up at church on Sunday to "make a statement." She said she pleaded with her husband not to make a statement to the church because it would make their pastor "look bad."



Ya think?


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 24, 2017)

In his new book "I Need a Man" published in 2016, Simmons offers a fresh, down-to-Earth perspective on the issues of godly manhood, mentoring, and identity.

Undoubtedly Claynisha misread the title as "I Need Another Man" and took it to heart.

Sadly, this: On hearing the threat, the frightened pastor fled the couple's home naked without waiting to see what would happen. will probably be the wisest decision he ever has or ever will make.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 24, 2017)

Maybe "Jars of Clay" can do a side project called "Jars of Claynisha".


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 24, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Maybe "Jars of Clay" can do a side project called "Jars of Claynisha".



Love it.


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## ambush80 (Jan 24, 2017)

Saved and forgiven.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 24, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Saved and forgiven.



You basing that on his words or his actions?


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## hummerpoo (Jan 24, 2017)

"he is also a fourth generation pastor and former public school teacher"

Preacher's Kid X3 and public school teacher to boot.  The poor guy is just carrying more baggage than any man can tote.


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## ambush80 (Jan 24, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You basing that on his words or his actions?




As far as being saved goes, I can only go by what someone says.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 24, 2017)

I don't see where it's something that God wouldn't forgive him of. Jesus died for his sins before and after he became a Christian. It works the same for all of us.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> As far as being saved goes, I can only go by is what someone says.



Well next time you feel the urge to post why don't you cut out the middle man and let that "someone"  say it.  That way you don't opine on something you admittedly, personally know nothing about.  Maybe "someone" can offer an INFORMED opinion without being both denigrating at duplicitous all at once.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2017)

Seems to be a pretty common mode of behavior with "preachers" around here. I can think of a half-dozen similar incidents offhand, and a couple worse.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't see where it's something that God wouldn't forgive him of. Jesus died for his sins before and after he became a Christian. It works the same for all of us.



Agreed.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Seems to be a pretty common mode of behavior with "preachers" around here. I can think of a half-dozen similar incidents offhand, and a couple worse.



Pretty common in every occupation I would say.  It's just shocking because it's a preacher.   The important point is "Why is that."   It's because when preachers or Christians sin it's notable because it goes against their accepted beliefs.  When a Non-Christian does the same thing it's expected, if not applauded.


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## drippin' rock (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well next time you feel the urge to post why don't you cut out the middle man and let that "someone"  say it.  That way you don't opine on something you admittedly, personally know nothing about.  Maybe "someone" can offer an INFORMED opinion without being both denigrating at duplicitous all at once.



touchy.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Pretty common in every occupation I would say.  It's just shocking because it's a preacher.   The important point is "Why is that."   It's because when preachers or Christians sin it's notable because it goes against their accepted beliefs.  When a Non-Christian does the same thing it's expected, if not applauded.



Maybe, maybe not. Preaching seems to attract a large percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts compared to other professions. And I don't think that kind of behavior is applauded for anyone. 

The difference in a preacher and any other occupation, is that the preacher is the same man who is publicly running me down for doing wrong and telling me how I should be living, when he's out there at the same time doing wicked stuff that I or most non-christian folks wouldn't even think about doing.

Just off the top of my head around here in the last few years, I have seen "preachers" get caught stealing money from the church, sleeping with the parishioners' wives, exposing themselves to children, picking up hookers, being a peeping tom (on a ladder looking in at a neighbor woman taking a shower,) getting a teenage girl pregnant, collecting rent in the form of sex, and various other disgusting things that I, the guy they call a "sinner," have never done, nor would never do. I could go on and on. These are the men that are qualified to tell me how to live? Really?  

If you can't hold yourself to at least a normal level of morality practiced by the "sinners" that you're preaching to, much less practicing depravity, what business do you have being a preacher? 

I have known preacher that personified both the absolute best and the absolute worst in human nature.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for a good, true preacher who walks the walk and tries to live his life as an example for others.

And I have nothing but contempt for the hypocrite preachers who are worse sinners than those they preach against. Unfortunately, they seem to outnumber the good ones these days. They should be the first to get toasted on a pitchfork in Hades.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Seems to be a pretty common mode of behavior with "preachers" around here.



I think one reason for that is a lot of these guys aren't operating with a lot of accountability.  There often surrounded by yes men who don't challenge the minister on anything.  I believe the scandals from the 80's (Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart) are good examples.  

In related news, Eddie Long died last week.  The funeral starts in an hour if anybody wants to live stream it.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Preaching seems to attract a large percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts compared to other professions.



I take issue with this.  As a CPA, I can assure you that my profession takes a backseat to no other when it comes to our percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> I take issue with this.  As a CPA, I can assure you that my profession takes a backseat to no other when it comes to our percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts.





I guess what attracts these types of folks to being "preachers" or other professions where they are common is the fact that they have control over people, and often their finances. And have the trust of the people who are under their control. Those are just the things that dishonest people love to take advantage of for their own personal gain or pleasure, and some professions give dishonest people more opportunity to take advantage of folks and situations than others.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

drippin' rock said:


> touchy.



Well, maybe.  I think Ambush's statement is representative of how duplicitous many Atheist are.  They don't believe in God.  I get it.  But, why spend so much time and energy devoted to denigrating people who do.  Do they expend this much energy antagonizing people who worship crystals?  The answer is "Of course not."   Why?  It's a case of "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."  Thus many who are incapable of supporting their belief of disbelief with intelligent conversation revert to denigration and it just gets old.  But, Hey!.  I guess if you can't win arguing the facts, the only hope you have is win arguing the lies you submit.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Maybe, maybe not.



No maybe about it.  You think anyone would have raised an eyebrow if this guy was a plumber or a thug from the projects?  Let's not kid ourselves.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> No maybe about it.  You think anyone would have raised an eyebrow if this guy was a plumber or a thug from the projects?  Let's not kid ourselves.



Yes. At least in my neck of the woods, anybody caught at another man's house in bed with his wife would certainly lift a lot of eyebrows, whether they were a plumber, Christian, or atheist. 

You seem to be offering excuses for the preacher and ascribing low morals as a group to anyone who isn't an official Christian, which isn't the case in reality. 

And to me, there is no excuse for spending your life telling other people how to live and act, then acting the opposite of your own guidelines.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Let's not kid ourselves.



Excellent advice, when applied to all perspectives.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> The difference in a preacher and any other occupation, is that the preacher is the same man who is publicly running me down for doing wrong and telling me how I should be living, when he's out there at the same time doing wicked stuff that I or most non-christian folks wouldn't even think about doing.



First of all.  If a preacher is preaching against sin (and I hope he is as it goes with the job) he's just shooting fish in a barrel.  If you're in the barrel and happen to get hit, it wasn't a personal attack, just a result of you being in the barrel.

Second:  Just because he's a preacher doesn't mean he's perfect.  I don't know any who think they are nor act like they are.  Maybe you do, but they're misguided at best.  

As to the fact that preachers do stuff most non-christians wouldn't.  I challenge you to name exactly ONE.   

As to you're problem with hypocrisy which I've heard you mention in several post.   I'll say this:  You don't having a problem going to Walmart with hypocrites, nor to McDonalds.   Heck.  You probably hunt and fish with some so what's you're problem with going to church with them?


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## welderguy (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Preaching seems to attract a large percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts compared to other professions. And I don't think that kind of behavior is applauded for anyone.
> 
> The difference in a preacher and any other occupation, is that the preacher is the same man who is publicly running me down for doing wrong and telling me how I should be living, when he's out there at the same time doing wicked stuff that I or most non-christian folks wouldn't even think about doing.
> 
> ...



I have very sad news for you, and you'll probably hate me for it, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
The Lord chastens those that are His and scourgest those whom He loves. This preacher, if the Lord loves him, will be scourged to his breaking point, I have no doubt in my mind.His life will be turned upside down. But it's because of God's love.

Now, if you believe you are not a sinner, then that can only mean God has not used His rod on you. Not because you haven't sinned, but because you may not be His child.

I'm not defending this man's actions by any means, just trying to help you see the greater picture.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Yes. At least in my neck of the woods, anybody caught at another man's house in bed with his wife would certainly lift a lot of eyebrows, whether they were a plumber, Christian, or atheist.



Unless you live in a Mennonite community I call horse-hockey.



NCHillbilly said:


> You seem to be offering excuses for the preacher and ascribing low morals as a group to anyone who isn't an official Christian, which isn't the case in reality.



I'm not offering excuses.  You're attributing infallibility, but I agree with you're conclusion.



NCHillbilly said:


> And to me, there is no excuse for spending your life telling other people how to live and act, then acting the opposite of your own guidelines.



Be careful there Brother.  That's the stuff of which hypocrites, whom you so loathe, are made.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

welderguy said:


> I have very sad news for you, and you'll probably hate me for it, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
> The Lord chastens those that are His and scourgest those whom He loves. This preacher, if the Lord loves him, will be scourged to his breaking point, I have no doubt in my mind.His life will be turned upside down. *But it's because of God's love.*



Uhhhhh.  No.  It's because of his lack of love for God.  He's just gonna reap what he has sown.  You move out of Mama's house, you eat your own cookin so to speak.


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well next time you feel the urge to post why don't you cut out the middle man and let that "someone"  say it.  That way you don't opine on something you admittedly, personally know nothing about.  Maybe "someone" can offer an INFORMED opinion without being both denigrating at duplicitous all at once.



You're right.  I shouldn't assume that a preacher would consider himself saved and forgiven.


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Preaching seems to attract a large percentage of con men, charlatans, crooks, and perverts compared to other professions. And I don't think that kind of behavior is applauded for anyone.
> 
> The difference in a preacher and any other occupation, is that the preacher is the same man who is publicly running me down for doing wrong and telling me how I should be living, when he's out there at the same time doing wicked stuff that I or most non-christian folks wouldn't even think about doing.
> 
> ...



I've never met a preacher that wasn't deep down a performer.  They love the stage and a captive crowd.  They love to tell people what "God Himself" had revealed to them to share.  

What a huge responsibility, being the spokesperson/receiver/transmitter of messages given just to you straight from God.  It truly must be a gift.

P.S. When crystal rubbers attempt to push their agenda I'll call them out, too.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 25, 2017)

Maybe preachers should just preach the forgiveness of sins.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I've never met a preacher that wasn't deep down a performer.  They love the stage and a captive crowd.  They love to tell people what "God Himself" had revealed to them to share.
> 
> What a huge responsibility, being the spokesperson/receiver/transmitter of messages given just to you straight from God.  It truly must be a gift.
> 
> P.S. When crystal rubbers attempt to push their agenda I'll call them out, too.



You need to expand your horizon on the various denominations, or non-denominations then. I've met very few that act as you proclaim.


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> You need to expand your horizon on the various denominations, or non-denominations then. I've met very few that act as you proclaim.



Probably.  Most I've met are SBC cuz that's where my dad preached.  Surprisingly, the gay minister at my in law's UCC church is even more of a performance junkie....in a very fabulous way.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> First of all.  If a preacher is preaching against sin (and I hope he is as it goes with the job) he's just shooting fish in a barrel.  If you're in the barrel and happen to get hit, it wasn't a personal attack, just a result of you being in the barrel.
> 
> Second:  Just because he's a preacher doesn't mean he's perfect.  I don't know any who think they are nor act like they are.  Maybe you do, but they're misguided at best.
> 
> ...



I just named you several from just in my community (embezzling from the church, repeated peeping tom, exposing self to children, getting young teenager pregnant, charging sex for rent, etc.) but you want to put your hands over your eyes. These are definitely things that most average non-Christians would not do. If you think differently, then you must have a whole 'nother class of people where you're at. There are some downright wicked people out there, but not being a Christian does not make folks have no morals, nor does being a Christian automatically give you morals. Sorry. I've seen different all my life. 

I was raised by a preacher and spent half of my life sitting in church growing up, so I'm not talking in abstracts from the outside, either.

And nobody's perfect. But someone who sets themselves up as an example of how to live should be held to a higher standard than folks who don't. 

And as I said earlier, I also have the utmost respect for the good preachers who try to live the same as they teach. But I have no respect at all for shyster hypocrite preachers who are in it for the money or the women.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> You're right.  I shouldn't assume that a preacher would consider himself saved and forgiven.



No you shouldn't, given you admitted lack of understanding.  It's akin to appraising a house's worth based on your understanding of landscaping.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Probably.  Most I've met are SBC cuz that's where my dad preached.  Surprisingly, the gay minister at my in law's UCC church is even more of a performance junkie....in a very fabulous way.



Drama-Minister?


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## welderguy (Jan 25, 2017)

No one is above doing what he did, not one.
If you think you are, you are on dangerous ground.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I've never met a preacher that wasn't deep down a performer.




Looks like it's time for my favorite Benny Hinn clip:


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> No you shouldn't, given you admitted lack of understanding.  It's akin to appraising a house's worth based on your understanding of landscaping.




That analogy is a swing and a miss.

A better one would be me seeing a box of cereal labeled Froot Loops and assuming there are Froot Loops inside.


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Drama-Minister?




Deacon of Interior Decorating.

But all jokes aside, I was really disappointed with how dramatic he was during my mother in law's funeral.  There was all this arm waving and self-hugging, dramatic climaxes in his voice.  It was like a Cher concert.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> But all jokes aside, I was really disappointed with how dramatic he was during my mother in law's funeral.  There was all this arm waving and self-hugging, dramatic climaxes in his voice.  It was like a Cher concert.



That doesn't seem very appropriate for a funeral.


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## bullethead (Jan 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well, maybe.  I think Ambush's statement is representative of how duplicitous many Atheist are.  They don't believe in God.  I get it.  But, why spend so much time and energy devoted to denigrating people who do.  Do they expend this much energy antagonizing people who worship crystals?  The answer is "Of course not."   Why?  It's a case of "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."  Thus many who are incapable of supporting their belief of disbelief with intelligent conversation revert to denigration and it just gets old.  But, Hey!.  I guess if you can't win arguing the facts, the only hope you have is win arguing the lies you submit.


Its Almost as bad as believers who frequent the AAA to talk about preachers that sleep around. Why spend so much time and energy conversing with Atheists, Agnostics and Apologetics when the subject pertains to none of the three...and more importantly then complain when an Atheist replies full well knowing that is the target audience in here?



> But, Hey!.  I guess if you can't win arguing the facts, the only hope you have is win arguing the lies you submit


Is the definition of duplicity as facts are the only thing that are frequently missing from your claims.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Deacon of Interior Decorating.
> 
> But all jokes aside, I was really disappointed with how dramatic he was during my mother in law's funeral.  There was all this arm waving and self-hugging, dramatic climaxes in his voice.  It was like a Cher concert.



Is his name Richard Simmons?


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> You need to expand your horizon on the various denominations, or non-denominations then. I've met very few that act as you proclaim.



Sorry, but that doesn't fit his motives.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> deacon of interior decorating.
> 
> But all jokes aside, i was really disappointed with how dramatic he was during my mother in law's funeral.  There was all this arm waving and self-hugging, dramatic climaxes in his voice.  It was like a cher concert.



lol.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Its Almost as bad as believers who frequent the AAA to talk about preachers that sleep around. Why spend so much time and energy conversing with Atheists, Agnostics and Apologetics when the subject pertains to none of the three...and more importantly then complain when an Atheist replies full well knowing that is the target audience in here?
> 
> 
> Is the definition of duplicity as facts are the only thing that are frequently missing from your claims.



Pffff.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

NCHillbilly said:


> I just named you several from just in my community (embezzling from the church, repeated peeping tom, exposing self to children, getting young teenager pregnant, charging sex for rent, etc.) but you want to put your hands over your eyes. These are definitely things that most average non-Christians would not do. If you think differently, then you must have a whole 'nother class of people where you're at. There are some downright wicked people out there, but not being a Christian does not make folks have no morals, nor does being a Christian automatically give you morals. Sorry. I've seen different all my life.
> 
> I was raised by a preacher and spent half of my life sitting in church growing up, so I'm not talking in abstracts from the outside, either.
> 
> ...




So someone who tells others not to molest children, cheat on his wife, murder and then does is worse that someone who doesn't tell others to not to and does it?  

I got it.

Truth is we're all capable of despicable wickedness.  Abiding in Christ is our only hope.  This preacher didn't.


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Pffff.


God bless you


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## Israel (Jan 26, 2017)

I (think) I don't "want" to be an example of not abiding, but what if our wants are, at once, both the most compelling and likewise least effective means at hand to anything?
Is there anything that manifestly removes from the arena of wants, to what is?
It may be that I not only do not like broccoli, I could discover I may specifically not want to like it. Or ever be made to be what would (like it).
Yet, I might still be able to extol its virtues. At least until whatever motive there is to that, is stripped away.


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> So someone who tells others not to molest children, cheat on his wife, murder and then does is worse that someone who doesn't tell others to not to and does it?
> 
> I got it.
> 
> Truth is we're all capable of despicable wickedness.  Abiding in Christ is our only hope.  This preacher didn't.



A self admitted impossible task.

Is the issue motivation?  Does "abiding in Christ" offer you the only reason not to be a bad guy?  And how is that working out?  It's not really supposed to stop you from being bad, you can't help it. It only gives you the notion that you are forgiven and saved, despite your badness.  Who's motivation to d o good is stronger, the person that understands his badness, takes full responsibility for it and tries to do better, or someone who believes that an incantation will remove the burden of his transgression from his psyche?


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

Israel said:


> I (think) I don't "want" to be an example of not abiding, but what if our wants are, at once, both the most compelling and likewise least effective means at hand to anything?
> Is there anything that manifestly removes from the arena of wants, to what is?



Action?



Israel said:


> It may be that I not only do not like broccoli, I could discover I may specifically not want to like it. Or ever be made to be what would (like it).
> Yet, I might still be able to extol its virtues. At least until whatever motive there is to that, is stripped away.




Is this about utility?


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 26, 2017)

If we could save ourselves by being good, we wouldn't need Jesus. One must repent from that way of thinking and believe Jesus died for the sins we can't help but commit.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> A self admitted impossible task.
> 
> Is the issue motivation?  Does "abiding in Christ" offer you the only reason not to be a bad guy?  And how is that working out?  It's not really supposed to stop you from being bad, you can't help it. It only gives you the notion that you are forgiven and saved, despite your badness.  Who's motivation to d o good is stronger, the person that understands his badness, takes full responsibility for it and tries to do better, or someone who believes that an incantation will remove the burden of his transgression from his psyche?




Again.  Is this your personal understanding from first hand experience or just what you've heard from "someone'?


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> If we could save ourselves by being good, we wouldn't need Jesus. One must repent from that way of thinking and believe Jesus died for the sins we can't help but commit.



Art!   Is that really you?!!!!!


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## SemperFiDawg (Jan 26, 2017)

bullethead said:


> God bless you



You too Brother.


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## Israel (Jan 26, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Action?
> 
> It may be that I not only do not like broccoli, I could discover I may specifically not want to like it. Or ever be made to be what would (like it).
> Yet, I might still be able to extol its virtues. At least until whatever motive there is to that, is stripped away.






> Is this about utility?


I surely didn't have that specifically in mind for advancement, but it is (to me) definitely, and probably rightly seen as, a component.
Utility, expediency.

Though, in one sense, it sounds so cold a proposition to include in matters where affections (and our stand upon them seem almost paramount), I nevertheless find their demand of inclusion ubiquitous. (At least presently)


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Again.  Is this your personal understanding from first hand experience or just what you've heard from "someone'?




Just me trying to make sense of the world.


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

Israel said:


> I surely didn't have that specifically in mind for advancement, but it is (to me) definitely, and probably rightly seen as, a component.
> Utility, expediency.
> 
> Though, in one sense, it sounds so cold a proposition to include in matters where affections (and our stand upon them seem almost paramount), I nevertheless find their demand of inclusion ubiquitous. (At least presently)



Then as usual, I take a claim like "I can't make it without Christ" to be patently false and lacking in true utility.  

Just my observation.


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You too Brother.



I didnt sneeze, but thanks


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## Israel (Jan 26, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Then as usual, I take a claim like "I can't make it without Christ" to be patently false and lacking in true utility.
> 
> Just my observation.



But utility is not all.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 26, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Then as usual, I take a claim like "I can't make it without Christ" to be patently false and lacking in true utility.
> 
> Just my observation.



As much as I like you and understand where you are coming from (I'm a PK too) our paths obviously diverged at some point in our journey's and though I completely abandoned my Spiritual Existence (House for better terms) and went on an exploratory journey of everything not Christian. Maybe I was no good at it, in spite of how much fun it seemed to be at the time, but eventually I came back and found that foundation (spiritual anchor) of where that house used to be still standing, waiting on me to rebuild upon it, and I can honestly say that "I cannot exist without Jesus Christ in my life". No utilities needed. 

But though, when I returned, I tried just about every outlet that claimed to preach Him that I could, so my experience is about as broad on this side of the spiritual spectrum as it was on the non-spiritual side. 

Perhaps that is the road I traveled that made the difference in my experiences as a PK as opposed to yours.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 26, 2017)

To put it another way. 

Why are bibles against the rules in public schools but provided and encouraged in prisons? 

The lack of one begets the environment that forces them in the other.


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> To put it another way.
> 
> Why are bibles against the rules in public schools but provided and encouraged in prisons?
> 
> The lack of one begets the environment that forces them in the other.



I don't mind if Bibles are read in school.  I don't mind if they read Korans either.  

I see utility in getting criminals who may be incapable of reasoning themselves to goodness to believe in the Boogey Man.


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> As much as I like you and understand where you are coming from (I'm a PK too) our paths obviously diverged at some point in our journey's and though I completely abandoned my Spiritual Existence (House for better terms) and went on an exploratory journey of everything not Christian. Maybe I was no good at it, in spite of how much fun it seemed to be at the time, but eventually I came back and found that foundation (spiritual anchor) of where that house used to be still standing, waiting on me to rebuild upon it, and I can honestly say that "I cannot exist without Jesus Christ in my life". No utilities needed.
> 
> But though, when I returned, I tried just about every outlet that claimed to preach Him that I could, so my experience is about as broad on this side of the spiritual spectrum as it was on the non-spiritual side.
> 
> Perhaps that is the road I traveled that made the difference in my experiences as a PK as opposed to yours.



I held on to the best parts.


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## Israel (Jan 27, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I held on to the best parts.


You may understand then my agreement in utility.
Some things are held as benefit, of a usefulness, while others are let go.

We are, if nothing else, to one extent or another observers.
Seekers we may become.
To deny the benefit (or utility, if one can bear it) of the finding could make a man untrue in his seeking. In that sense we are not "allowed" to decide the what, and how of effects we find, if we are. We also know this leaves us open to accusation...but so what?
We all know this. Don't we?


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