# What bugs you most about "Christians"?



## Joe of Dirt (Nov 23, 2013)

What bothers you most about religious people?

Is it the smug arrogance?

Is it their inability to think for themselves?

Is it the fish symbol on the back of their car which seems to make them drive like a complete jerk?  (or is that a completely smug and arrogant idiot?  ("never attribute to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity").

Is it the preacher that tells you that you are going to H..E...Double-Hockey-Sticks for enjoying a beer or three now and then...while he is seeing the deacon's daughter inappropriately?

Is it the priest that tells you where you are going when you "pass", while he is molesting the alter boy?

Is it the folks that dress up for each other, show up to church showing off their new car, and hoping everyone sees how much they put in the collection plate, in the Sunday ritual of "see & be seen"?

What bugs you most about religious folk?

For me...all of the above...and then some.   (especially the smug arrogance)


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## Michael F. Gray (Nov 23, 2013)

That there are not enough of them!


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## ambush80 (Nov 23, 2013)

So many Christians, too few lions.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 23, 2013)

Joe of Dirt said:


> What bothers you most about religious people?
> 
> Is it the smug arrogance?
> 
> ...



Thankfully, skeptics are completely free from all arrogance and hypocrisy.


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## gordon 2 (Nov 23, 2013)

What bugs me more about christians is that they raise kids to rebel as atheists-- young adults who think they can reason for themselves. I am especially bugged by this, because I raised two!



And what's worse is that my reasonings are based on science! That the cerbelum's executive function is only developed rather late in young adult males ( late 20s) compared to (females early 20s) and that white matter only, for the most part of human developement, increases to make multi imput connections in middle aged brains for the executive funtion to process is totally lost to them!



My kids are arrogant and hypocrits but I still love them. When the wheels of their chariots fall off some day, my hope is that they are sufficiently intact to pick themselves up from the spill and come back home and reason like mature adults. Until then... what will be, will be.  I mean I'm dealing with their many yrs at university, South Park, The Simpsons, Family Guy, Pen and Teller, japanese anime and a world that seems all confused. They are not pushovers my kids--their just soft. Mommy had so much say. LOL


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## gemcgrew (Nov 23, 2013)

gordon 2 said:


> What bugs me more about christians is that they raise kids to rebel as atheists-- young adults who think they can reason for themselves. I am especially bugged by this, because I raised two!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Epic!


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## bullethead (Nov 23, 2013)

4/6(before this one) posts in a thread asking "what bugs you most about Christians" are from Christians....epic indeed.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 23, 2013)

Baptist telling everyone else their denomination is wrong.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 23, 2013)

Joe of Dirt said:


> What bothers you most about religious people?
> 
> Is it the smug arrogance?
> 
> ...



Isn't is just a bit ironic that one who belittles Christians as underlings for not being able to think for themselves also cites them for their smug arrogance.  I would have thought such an intellectual as yourself would see the hypocrisy of such a statement.  

Personally if I was an Atheist I wouldn't spend a moment bothered by someone who believes in something I didn't believe existed.  Do you have the same problem with Leprechauns on St. Patricks Day, the Easter Bunny, etc.  I can honestly say I don't spend a minute fretting over people who worship crystals, the moon, sacred cows, statues, etc.  Why?  Because I know it's folly, because it's not true.  They are not God.  

Atheist on the other hand, seem to resent anything Christian and spend a great deal of time and energy in attempting to thwart anything Christian.  Why is that?  The only explanation that is plausible it that they know deep down in their hearts that Christianity is true, and it eats at them every day having to live a lie and deny the obvious.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 23, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> So many Christians, too few lions.



Ahhhhh.  A wonderful example of the end product of relative morality.  Well done my Atheist friend.


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 23, 2013)

What bugs me most about religous folks? The same things that bug me about non religous folks. You can find jerks anywhere because being a jerk is a denomination all its own.


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## HawgJawl (Nov 23, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Personally if I was an Atheist I wouldn't spend a moment bothered by someone who believes in something I didn't believe existed.  Do you have the same problem with Leprechauns on St. Patricks Day, the Easter Bunny, etc.  I can honestly say I don't spend a minute fretting over people who worship crystals, the moon, sacred cows, statues, etc.  Why?  Because I know it's folly, because it's not true.  They are not God.
> 
> Atheist on the other hand, seem to resent anything Christian and spend a great deal of time and energy in attempting to thwart anything Christian.  Why is that?  The only explanation that is plausible it that they know deep down in their hearts that Christianity is true, and it eats at them every day having to live a lie and deny the obvious.



I think the difference between Christians and people who worship crystals is that the crystal worshippers do not (yet) lobby to enact laws that affect everyone including Athiests.  And they do not (yet) elect politicians based solely upon their common worship of crystals regardless of their actual qualifications for the position.  Those things affect Athiests.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 23, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Isn't is just a bit ironic that one who belittles Christians as underlings for not being able to think for themselves also cites them for their smug arrogance.  I would have thought such an intellectual as yourself would see the hypocrisy of such a statement.
> 
> Personally if I was an Atheist I wouldn't spend a moment bothered by someone who believes in something I didn't believe existed.  Do you have the same problem with Leprechauns on St. Patricks Day, the Easter Bunny, etc.  I can honestly say I don't spend a minute fretting over people who worship crystals, the moon, sacred cows, statues, etc.  Why?  Because I know it's folly, because it's not true.  They are not God.
> 
> Atheist on the other hand, seem to resent anything Christian and spend a great deal of time and energy in attempting to thwart anything Christian.  Why is that?  The only explanation that is plausible it that they know deep down in their hearts that Christianity is true, and it eats at them every day having to live a lie and deny the obvious.



Isn't it ironic,
Don't ya think....
a little too ironic, 
yeah I really do think...
it's like rayeeeain....
on your Wedding day..


Ahhh Alanis.....


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 23, 2013)

HawgJawl said:


> I think the difference between Christians and people who worship crystals is that the crystal worshippers do not (yet) lobby to enact laws that affect everyone including Athiests.  And they do not (yet) elect politicians based solely upon their common worship of crystals regardless of their actual qualifications for the position.  Those things affect Athiests.



So would the laws in Communist China where Atheism is the State Religion.  Somehow I don't think my Atheist friends would be to happy there either, but it's an option.  Again, it's pretty obvious where the strife with Atheist comes from, and it's from within.  They are not bitter because people think there's a God, they are bitter WITH God and they ain't no getting away from HIM ......forever.


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## fireman32 (Nov 23, 2013)

That non-believers think  Christians feel they are perfect, and some Christians erroneously feel that they are perfect, giving rise to the hypocrite stigma. When in reality they aren't, only forgiven.  And of course, forcing ones view on another, demanding agreement, which is wrong in many other walks of life, as well.


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## PappyHoel (Nov 23, 2013)

I will just pray for the atheists.


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## bullethead (Nov 23, 2013)

PappyHoel said:


> I will just pray for the atheists.



I will renounce god in your name.

See how silly and disturbing it all sounds?


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## bullethead (Nov 23, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> So would the laws in Communist China where Atheism is the State Religion.  Somehow I don't think my Atheist friends would be to happy there either, but it's an option.  Again, it's pretty obvious where the strife with Atheist comes from, and it's from within.  They are not bitter because people think there's a God, they are bitter WITH God and they ain't no getting away from HIM ......forever.



http://www.cfr.org/china/religion-china/p16272

but according to this you're "winning"
http://www.china-mike.com/facts-about-china/facts-religion/

What is the "official" religion of the USA? Secularism????


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## vowell462 (Nov 24, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> Baptist telling everyone else their denomination is wrong.



This. Plus the thing that really bothers me is just what ive seen personally in the church. I know people ( especially on my wifes side of the family) that have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible. Dont even know their own doctrine. Yet, there is absolutly no doubt in my mind that these people believe to the fullest whatever their " Brother preacher" has said to them from behind the pulpit the past several years. They have conversations with god, know in their heart he exists, pray over everything, thank him for everything that has happened in their life that has gone their way. Yet, besides being able to memorize a few songs in the church, they cant hold any hint of an intelligent conversation when it comes to their faith.

Opiate of the masses


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> Baptist telling everyone else their denomination is wrong.



Can you be more specific about the group or issue you're talking about?  Baptists are not the only group that have disagreements with others.  The forums above should be proof of that.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> I know people ( especially on my wifes side of the family) that have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible. Dont even know their own doctrine.... they cant hold any hint of an intelligent conversation when it comes to their faith.



A sad but often true statement (and was mentioned in today's sermon.)

OTOH, the same can be said for Jews, Muslims, etc.


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## Joe of Dirt (Nov 24, 2013)

Some decent logicical (linear - not circular "Christain" logic) thinking presented here.  Food for thought.

And why, SemperFiDawg, do you continue to try to infest your beliefs here, in the wrong sub-forum?  Are you one of those sheep that believe that your salvation is served by your actions, rather than "by grace"?  

In other words, please play in your playground (religious sub-forum), instead of this sub-forum for those of us who use the brain we were born with.

Thanks, bud.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

Joe of Dirt said:


> And why, SemperFiDawg, do you continue to try to infest your beliefs here, in the wrong sub-forum?  Are you one of those sheep that believe that your salvation is served by your actions, rather than "by grace"?
> 
> In other words, please play in your playground (religious sub-forum), instead of this sub-forum for those of us who use the brain we were born with.



For the 82nd time ... this is the Triple A forum, not the Double A forum.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 24, 2013)

Someone being a Christian doesn't bug me. Its what happens after that, that determines my view of them.


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 24, 2013)

It appears there's enough "smug arrogance" to go around for both Christians and Atheists.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

RoosterTodd said:


> It appears there's enough "smug arrogance" to go around for both Christians and Atheists.


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 24, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


>



Always loved the Macho Man!


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 24, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> This. Plus the thing that really bothers me is just what ive seen personally in the church. I know people ( especially on my wifes side of the family) that have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible. Dont even know their own doctrine. Yet, there is absolutly no doubt in my mind that these people believe to the fullest whatever their " Brother preacher" has said to them from behind the pulpit the past several years. They have conversations with god, know in their heart he exists, pray over everything, thank him for everything that has happened in their life that has gone their way. Yet, besides being able to memorize a few songs in the church, they cant hold any hint of an intelligent conversation when it comes to their faith.
> 
> Opiate of the masses


Yes, this is common and it bugs me also.


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't care much for all the blue laws against hunting, buying alcohol, and such on Sunday.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 24, 2013)

Most you guys know me but FYI I am Christian, by my own definition. What bugs me are not the few bad apples that can be found in every group or organization as pointed out in several of the points in the OP, but rather what bothers me is the assumption that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Now I hold to those same beliefs but in recent years have learned that it is my belief. Sure if you wish to tell others about your belief, that is fine, but the disrespect of saying "I'm right, your wrong" is what bothers me. Now I realize that many will be thinking that I am obligated to tell/ warn others, but they need to realize that this is their belief. Show some respect. It is not offensive when you describe your belief. But very offensive when you basically imply, I'm right, your wrong"


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## Eddy M. (Nov 24, 2013)

TWO FACED  say one thing and do something else


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## rutnbuk (Nov 24, 2013)

I can't stand it when they start/fund things like the Red Cross, Colleges and Hospitals and always have to be the first to show up when there is a natural disaster...I mean how arrogant is that!!!


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

rutnbuk said:


> I can't stand it when they start/fund things like the Red Cross, Colleges and Hospitals and always have to be the first to show up when there is a natural disaster...I mean how arrogant is that!!!



Exactly.  It's disgusting.


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## Bobby Jackson (Nov 24, 2013)

rutnbuk said:


> I can't stand it when they start/fund things like the Red Cross



really?..the red cross is a Christian organiz?..you sure?

http://chalcedon.edu/research/articles/red-cross-fires-christian-who-opposed-gay-pride-month/


http://www.baptistboard.com/archive/index.php/t-17652.html


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## JB0704 (Nov 24, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> Someone being a Christian doesn't bug me. Its what happens after that, that determines my view of them.


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## bullethead (Nov 24, 2013)

Bobby Jackson said:


> really?..the red cross is a Christian organiz?..you sure?
> 
> http://chalcedon.edu/research/articles/red-cross-fires-christian-who-opposed-gay-pride-month/
> 
> ...



Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...?
When Blutarsky is on a roll just let him go.....

As "they" say.....does a couple of words here or there change anything? 
Don't let the facts ruin a point. lolololololol


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## panfried0419 (Nov 24, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Can you be more specific about the group or issue you're talking about?  Baptists are not the only group that have disagreements with others.  The forums above should be proof of that.



I was pretty specific.


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## Bobby Jackson (Nov 24, 2013)

bullethead said:


> Don't let the facts ruin a point. lolololololol



You are right.. ..christians just ignores ALL fact


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## Ronnie T (Nov 24, 2013)

Joe of Dirt said:


> What bothers you most about religious people?
> 
> )



1.  They pack into the restaurants on Sunday after church.

2.  They're too noisy in restaurants on Sunday.

3.  Baptists are the noisiest(I've conducted survey's).


Note:  There are some countries on this planet that have very small numbers of Christians.  But you probably wouldn't like living with them either.
.


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## bullethead (Nov 24, 2013)

Fact of the matter is that without religion (or politics) in the mix none of us would be at verbal odds with each other.
Then again it is because of religion that I am able to converse with guys a few thousand miles from me.

I can't and won't lump all Christians into a single category any more than I would with any other race, color, creed, nationality, religious affiliation, political party, group, club, vocation, sports fan, etc etc etc etc.
Unfortunately it gets turned into a prejudice based off of personal experiences and everyone gets a bad rap.
Neither side is immune to the one size fits all finger pointing and blanket statements.

The truth is I/we interact with people that are not 100% just like us each and every day. That's what makes the world go round.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 24, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> I was pretty specific.



OK ...




panfried0419 said:


> Baptist telling everyone else their denomination is wrong.



Which Baptist group?  Southern?  American?  Independent?  Primitive?  Hard-shell?  All of the above?




panfried0419 said:


> Baptist telling everyone else their denomination is wrong.



Wrong about what?

I don't want to hijack the thread, so feel free to answer in one of the forums above.


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## gemcgrew (Nov 24, 2013)

Ronnie T said:


> 1.  They pack into the restaurants on Sunday after church.
> 
> 2.  They're too noisy in restaurants on Sunday.
> 
> 3.  Baptists are the noisiest(I've conducted survey's).


You just have to avoid the buffets. Problem solved.


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## 660griz (Nov 25, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Plus the thing that really bothers me is just what ive seen personally in the church. I know people ( especially on my wifes side of the family) that have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible.



Plausible deniability.


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## 660griz (Nov 25, 2013)

Religious based laws like, no alcohol sales on Sunday. Coming to my house to 'save' me.

Pretty much anything that affects me. If I want to hear about God and give money to keep the lights on at a church, I know where to go. 

I am happy that folks have found a 'guide' to help them live right. Unfortunately, lots of people need that.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 25, 2013)

Ronnie T said:


> 3.  Baptists are the noisiest(I've conducted survey's).



It's not enough that they tell everybody that they're wrong.  They gotta be noisy, too.

Darn Baptists.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 25, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> This. Plus the thing that really bothers me is just what ive seen personally in the church. I know people ( especially on my wifes side of the family) that have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible. Dont even know their own doctrine. Yet, there is absolutly no doubt in my mind that these people believe to the fullest whatever their " Brother preacher" has said to them from behind the pulpit the past several years. They have conversations with god, know in their heart he exists, pray over everything, thank him for everything that has happened in their life that has gone their way. Yet, besides being able to memorize a few songs in the church, they cant hold any hint of an intelligent conversation when it comes to their faith.
> 
> Opiate of the masses



Have you read all of Darwin's books?

What about Peter Singers, Anthony Flew, David Hume, or maybe just some Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawkins, John Polkinghorn,  and Paul Davies?  Yet, you call yourself an Atheist and attempt to force that lie down our throats?  The audacity!!!!


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 25, 2013)

Joe of Dirt said:


> Some decent logicical (linear - not circular "Christain" logic) thinking presented here.  Food for thought.
> 
> And why, SemperFiDawg, do you continue to try to infest your beliefs here, in the wrong sub-forum?  Are you one of those sheep that believe that your salvation is served by your actions, rather than "by grace"?
> 
> ...



Joe, again, maybe you need to look up the term Apologetic and then see if you can find it in the Title of this sub forum.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 25, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> It's not enough that they tell everybody that they're wrong.  They gotta be noisy, too.
> 
> Darn Baptists.



Yeah.  That's us.  Sorry bout the noise y'all.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 25, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> It's not enough that they tell everybody that they're wrong.  They gotta be noisy, too.
> 
> Darn Baptists.



Listen. I've discussed(jokingly) this problem with the elites at the Baptist Bible college that's located in the city I live in.  They acknowledge the noisiness problem, but admit that it's beyond their control.  

All this happiness just gets on some people's nerves.
.


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## David Parker (Nov 25, 2013)

Like the singing but can't stand the agendas they push when elected to a public office.  I would request everyone check their religion at the door, but by it's very nature, a zealot has to share and impose onto others.  That's what I don't like about relig.  But the singin part makes up for most of it.  Can't get enough of that.


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## gemcgrew (Nov 25, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> It's not enough that they tell everybody that they're wrong.  They gotta be noisy, too.
> 
> Darn Baptists.




The best way to avoid the Baptist is to find a restaurant with a bar and a dance floor.

But then you have to be able to tolerate the Charismatics.


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## vowell462 (Nov 25, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Have you read all of Darwin's books?
> 
> What about Peter Singers, Anthony Flew, David Hume, or maybe just some Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawkins, John Polkinghorn,  and Paul Davies?  Yet, you call yourself an Atheist and attempt to force that lie down our throats?  The audacity!!!!



First off, I was explaining my personal experience within the church which has made me turn away. Personal experience....that's all.

Secondly, I don't know where you are getting your info from but I have never called myself an atheist....ever. Seems to me you are just assuming ( another reason I don't like what ive seen in church).

Last, yes. Ive read a lot of books. Including other bibles beside yours ( the audacity!). Its been a combination of things throughout my life that I have experienced that shys me away...especially when I have someone who doesn't even know me to finger point and make an assumption about myself that you know nothing about.

Statements like yours are the reason people don't visit your place of worship. I haven't forced a lie on anyone. That's your copout, and quite frankly im a little insulted that such a fine Christian such as yourself goes on to judge someone they have never shaken hands with.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 25, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Secondly, I don't know where you are getting your info from but I have never called myself an atheist....ever.




From the content and context of your past posts.


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## bullethead (Nov 25, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> From the content and context of your past posts.



You really should research things/people more deeply before you jump to conclusions.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 25, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> OK ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All and everything


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## centerpin fan (Nov 25, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> All and everything



Wow.


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## vowell462 (Nov 26, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> From the content and context of your past posts.



Uh...ok. Now that we have determined you might be a good candidate for remedial reading comprehension courses, care to speak on your other assumption that I force my lies on people? What lies have I told?

You know, I come to this forum to learn and don't post too often. But if you are here for the third A in the forums title, you surely aren't setting a very good example for your people. Its statements and assumptions that people such as yourself make that  will turn people away from what your objective is. Maybe you should go on and marinate on that for a minute.


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## StriperrHunterr (Nov 26, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> First off, I was explaining my personal experience within the church which has made me turn away. Personal experience....that's all.
> 
> Secondly, I don't know where you are getting your info from but I have never called myself an atheist....ever. Seems to me you are just assuming ( another reason I don't like what ive seen in church).
> 
> ...



The dynamite says....BOOM!


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## rmp (Nov 26, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> First off, I was explaining my personal experience within the church which has made me turn away. Personal experience....that's all.
> 
> Secondly, I don't know where you are getting your info from but I have never called myself an atheist....ever. Seems to me you are just assuming ( another reason I don't like what ive seen in church).
> 
> ...





Now that qualifies as epic!


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 26, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Uh...ok. Now that we have determined you might be a good candidate for remedial reading comprehension courses, care to speak on your other assumption that I force my lies on people? What lies have I told?
> 
> You know, I come to this forum to learn and don't post too often. But if you are here for the third A in the forums title, you surely aren't setting a very good example for your people. Its statements and assumptions that people such as yourself make that  will turn people away from what your objective is. Maybe you should go on and marinate on that for a minute.



In the thread "turned off to religion because?"

Griz posted

My top 3 reasons...

1) I hate ultimatums
2) Religion is responsible for atrocities.
3) Just makes no sense. (any of them)

To which you quoted then stated 



> *My thoughts as well. Short and simple.*



Now, like I said, that would lead most sensible people to assume you are an Atheist.  

In post 19 of this thread you gave this example of Christians 



> have been attending church for many years, and havent even read the bible. Dont even know their own doctrine.



adding 



> they cant hold any hint of an intelligent conversation when it comes to their faith.



ending the post with this



> Opiate of the masses



So you paint this picture of Christians as un-"intelligent" hypocrites.  Then when you are called on your stance and your ability to engage in an "intelligent" defense of it,  you feign indignation.  

If you can't do any better than that,  maybe you would be better served spending the time you are using throwing stones at Christians and use it building up the foundation of your own world view........whatever it is.


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## bullethead (Nov 26, 2013)

Rock throwing is for those Abrahamic religions.


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## vowell462 (Nov 26, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> In the thread "turned off to religion because?"
> 
> Griz posted
> 
> ...



Wow dude.....you been watching Dodgeball over and over? I keep hearing this voice yelling "Dodge, dip, duck, dive , dodge".

If you really want to go back and find out anything ive said in prior posts, read a little deeper and you will see that many times I have said that I don't consider myself an atheist. Most " sensible " people would understand that its not etched in stone that you are either christian or atheist.

It would be nice for you to go back and read what I wrote the first time. I explained personal experience with people whom Ive been around in the church. I didn't lump all Christians into a basket. I never threw a stone at anyone. Yet you on the other hand made a sophomoric assumption that I am forcing lies? That in itself sir, is a lie.

The only one who is painting pictures here is you. So please explain to me where I have forced a lie to anyone.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 27, 2013)

Center pin are you upset that I'm a Christian that's not a Baptist?


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 27, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> So please explain to me where I have forced a lie to anyone.



I thought I just did.  



> Opiate of the masses


 ring a bell?


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## vowell462 (Nov 27, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I thought I just did.
> 
> ring a bell?



No, you didnt. What you have done is made silly assumptions that hold no weight. Then when you are asked why, you realized you messed up and do everything you can to try and destroy the other. Breaking sentences down to fit YOUR needs, finding old threads and taking them out of context, twisting and turning, twisting and turning. You have decided in your mind that someone that doesnt think the way you do is the enemy, and thats sad. Maybe you should go start another inquisition?

Im not going to spend my time arguing over the silly stuff. What you have done is destroy any bit of credibility you have by back peddling to save your ridiculous statements. Accusing others of something they havent done. 

Im open to any civil conversation you would like to have. If you are coming here to play games, finger point, and flat out lie, im not interested. I have four children I can play games with.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 27, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> Center pin are you upset that I'm a Christian that's not a Baptist?



Nope.  I'm not a Baptist, either (although I play one on TV.)

I just think you're painting with a pretty broad brush with your "all and everything" comment.  I bet your pastor wouldn't agree with you.


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 27, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> No, you didnt. What you have done is made silly assumptions that hold no weight. Then when you are asked why, you realized you messed up and do everything you can to try and destroy the other. Breaking sentences down to fit YOUR needs, finding old threads and taking them out of context, twisting and turning, twisting and turning. You have decided in your mind that someone that doesnt think the way you do is the enemy, and thats sad. Maybe you should go start another inquisition?
> 
> Im not going to spend my time arguing over the silly stuff. What you have done is destroy any bit of credibility you have by back peddling to save your ridiculous statements. Accusing others of something they havent done.
> 
> Im open to any civil conversation you would like to have. If you are coming here to play games, finger point, and flat out lie, im not interested. I have four children I can play games with.



Nope, I'm not either.


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## David Parker (Nov 27, 2013)

The ones that come to my door.  Don't like that either.  

don't call me, I'll call you.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 27, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Nope.  I'm not a Baptist, either (although I play one on TV.)
> 
> I just think you're painting with a pretty broad brush with your "all and everything" comment.  I bet your pastor wouldn't agree with you.



Actually he would;-)


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## centerpin fan (Nov 27, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> Actually he would;-)



I have a hard time believing that, but I'll pray for both of you just in case.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 28, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> I have a hard time believing that, but I'll pray for both of you just in case.



Why? Because we arent Baptist or because i do not have the same thought process as you?


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## centerpin fan (Nov 28, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> Why? Because we arent Baptist or because i do not have the same thought process as you?



Neither.

As I said before, I think your "all and everything" comment is just plain wrong, and I pray that you develop a more accurate and loving view of Baptists.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Wow dude.....you been watching Dodgeball over and over? I keep hearing this voice yelling "Dodge, dip, duck, dive , dodge".
> 
> If you really want to go back and find out anything ive said in prior posts, read a little deeper and you will see that many times I have said that I don't consider myself an atheist. Most " sensible " people would understand that its not etched in stone that you are either christian or atheist.
> 
> ...



I ain't never shook your hand, and I don't know if you have ever told a lie. I don't know if you have ever thrown a stone, and I do not think you have ever forced no lies on anyone, but I, as a "sensible" person, fully believe that your name is ETCHED IN STONE as one who is for, or against God. That is just sensible.


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## panfried0419 (Nov 29, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Neither.
> 
> As I said before, I think your "all and everything" comment is just plain wrong, and I pray that you develop a more accurate and loving view of Baptists.



Religion is based on beliefs there is right and wrong. Fact and false. All and everything refers to how they belittle all other denominations.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> I ain't never shook your hand, and I don't know if you have ever told a lie. I don't know if you have ever thrown a stone, and I do not think you have ever forced no lies on anyone, but I, as a "sensible" person, fully believe that your name is ETCHED IN STONE as one who is for, or against God. That is just sensible.


Actually its not sensible to believe the only 2 choices are For or Against. Sensible to you maybe but not universally.


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## bullethead (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> I ain't never shook your hand, and I don't know if you have ever told a lie. I don't know if you have ever thrown a stone, and I do not think you have ever forced no lies on anyone, but I, as a "sensible" person, fully believe that your name is ETCHED IN STONE as one who is for, or against God. That is just sensible.



This sort of "logic" does not hold up scientifically or mathematically. Add grammatically to the list also.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 29, 2013)

panfried0419 said:


> All and everything refers to how they belittle all other denominations.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 29, 2013)

The same things that bug me most about Christians, is the same things that bug me most about Atheist, Wiccans, Hindus, Jews, and Muslims.
The thing that bothers me most about denominations is SOME members of certain denominations believe their denomination is the right one and all the others are wrong. Wrong to the point of even not having Salvation. Even though salvation is from God and between the individual & God. Even though it's from the heart.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> The same things that bug me most about Christians, is the same things that bug me most about Atheist, Wiccans, Hindus, Jews, and Muslims.
> The thing that bothers me most about denominations is SOME members of certain denominations believe their denomination is the right one and all the others are wrong. Wrong to the point of even not having Salvation. Even though salvation is from God and between the individual & God. Even though it's from the heart.


I think its inevitable to the point of being required. The very nature of religion teaches exclusivity. Can you be a card carrying Christian and believe a Muslim or a Wiccan will be sitting next to you in Heaven? Or anybody else but another Christian? To me, much of religion(s) is a man made cess pool of hypocrisy and selfishness that requires otherwise intelligent people to look down upon, dismiss, segregate, feel sorry for, make excuses about etc etc other groups of people for no other reason than they were taught something different that cant be proven either. For me that's nothing to be worshipped. 
God? I don't know. Religion? No thanks.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 29, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> The thing that bothers me most about denominations is SOME members of certain denominations believe their denomination is the right one and all the others are wrong.



Thank you for using that word.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 29, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> I think its inevitable to the point of being required. The very nature of religion teaches exclusivity. Can you be a card carrying Christian and believe a Muslim or a Wiccan will be sitting next to you in Heaven? Or anybody else but another Christian? To me, much of religion(s) is a man made cess pool of hypocrisy and selfishness that requires otherwise intelligent people to look down upon, dismiss, segregate, feel sorry for, make excuses about etc etc other groups of people for no other reason than they were taught something different that cant be proven either. For me that's nothing to be worshipped.
> God? I don't know. Religion? No thanks.



Only the one's who believe Jesus died for their sins will be in Heaven. (Just my beliefs, not everyone's)
I can be tolerant of their beliefs by not teaching Christianity in public schools and making laws based on Christianity.  Hopefully they will be as tolerant as I am.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

bullethead said:


> This sort of "logic" does not hold up scientifically or mathematically. Add grammatically to the list also.



It weren't logic, or mathematical, or scientific. It is clearly labeled as MY BELIEF.

Now you're the grammar police too? Good grief.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> Actually its not sensible to believe the only 2 choices are For or Against. Sensible to you maybe but not universally.



There are plenty of choices to be made, they all lead to one of two paths.

Like Yin and Yang, life and death, light and dark, truth and falsehood, Jedi and the Sith. It seems like a pretty universal concept to me. Why do you say it is not sensible?


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## bullethead (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> It weren't logic, or mathematical, or scientific. It is clearly labeled as MY BELIEF.
> 
> Now you're the grammar police too? Good grief.



Ted, ?NOW?...in THIS thread you want to split hairs???
I think most of everything posted in these threads are "beliefs". That is pretty much understood.

Consider my post to you in here just a little retort for your post to me in the other thread.

I figured if you didn't address the OP in the other thread and just posted to pick apart my reply by covering "math" and "science"(even though neither was what my post was about)...so I thought we'd include those two school subjects and add "grammar" in the mix here also. I mean you didn't mind so why should I...right??

It's all good Ted...we each like to needle the other when we can....just wanted to show you I'm still in the game too


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> There are plenty of choices to be made, they all lead to one of two paths.
> 
> Like Yin and Yang, life and death, light and dark, truth and falsehood, Jedi and the Sith. It seems like a pretty universal concept to me. Why do you say it is not sensible?


Your original quote was


> as a "sensible" person, fully believe that your name is ETCHED IN STONE as one who is for, or against God. That is just sensible.


You cant think of any scenarios where somebody would be NEITHER for or against? If you can, its not sensible to exclude those.


> they all lead to one of two paths.


That's not sensible either. Im assuming (I may be wrong) you are talking about heaven or the hot place. To be sensible you have to include just rotting in the ground. In fact that's more sensible because its the only one that has actually been observed. And Im not knocking your beliefs. Im saying you are skewing the meaning of sensible to fit your beliefs..


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> Your original quote was
> 
> You cant think of any scenarios where somebody would be NEITHER for or against? If you can, its not sensible to exclude those.
> 
> That's not sensible either. Im assuming (I may be wrong) you are talking about heaven or the hot place. To be sensible you have to include just rotting in the ground. In fact that's more sensible because its the only one that has actually been observed. And Im not knocking your beliefs. Im saying you are skewing the meaning of sensible to fit your beliefs..



I can think of how a person might "perceive" they have an alternative scenario, like, I just won't participate (that would be against), or I will pretend to be for, while my true intention is to be against (traitor), but that is also against. Our perception doesn't change the truth, it is what it is. I may not know exactly what that truth is (I am human after all), but I know that it exists.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> Your original quote was
> 
> You cant think of any scenarios where somebody would be NEITHER for or against? If you can, its not sensible to exclude those.
> 
> That's not sensible either. Im assuming (I may be wrong) you are talking about heaven or the hot place. To be sensible you have to include just rotting in the ground. In fact that's more sensible because its the only one that has actually been observed. And Im not knocking your beliefs. Im saying you are skewing the meaning of sensible to fit your beliefs..



No, not trying to be that specific. More like, right and wrong, good and evil.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

bullethead said:


> Ted, ?NOW?...in THIS thread you want to split hairs???
> I think most of everything posted in these threads are "beliefs". That is pretty much understood.
> 
> Consider my post to you in here just a little retort for your post to me in the other thread.
> ...



Yes, agreed. Sorry, the more than 100% quote happens to be a major pet peeve of mine.

It was not right for me to ignore the OP and just swing at you. BTW, it wouldn't have mattered who it was, I just really hate the > 100% thing.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> I can think of how a person might "perceive" they have an alternative scenario, like, I just won't participate (that would be against), or I will pretend to be for, while my true intention is to be against (traitor), but that is also against. Our perception doesn't change the truth, it is what it is. I may not know exactly what that truth is (I am human after all), but I know that it exists.


To me, other factual scenarios are -
A baby/child who doesn't know enough to be for or against.
Or I live in a place and never have heard of this Christian God.
Or an Atheist who doesn't believe there is a God to even be for or against.
Or a person who doesn't care if a God even exists to be for or against. For example right now somewhere else in the world a sport Im not familiar with is being played by 2 teams. I don't care about the sport they are playing. I don't care which team wins. Im neither for or against. I just don't care.
To be sensible you have to acknowledge that for or against are not the only 2 possibilities.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 29, 2013)

WaltL1 said:


> To me, other factual scenarios are -
> A baby/child who doesn't know enough to be for or against.
> Or I live in a place and never have heard of this Christian God.
> Or an Atheist who doesn't believe there is a God to even be for or against.
> ...



Yet, one team will win, regardless of your lack of caring, the truth unfolds. I believe this addresses all your scenarios.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> No, not trying to be that specific. More like, right and wrong, good and evil.


Lots of examples of whats right or wrong or good or evil having completely different meanings depending on what part of the world you are typing from or even among individuals right here on this forum.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> Yet, one team will win, regardless of your lack of caring, the truth unfolds. I believe this addresses all your scenarios.


Who wins has nothing to do with someone being for or against which was your quote. So not real sure what scenarios you addressed (none of them). 
But I do agree the truth unfolds at the end of the game. Not before, no matter what you believe and no matter who you think should win.


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## bullethead (Nov 29, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> Yes, agreed. Sorry, the more than 100% quote happens to be a major pet peeve of mine.
> 
> It was not right for me to ignore the OP and just swing at you. BTW, it wouldn't have mattered who it was, I just really hate the > 100% thing.



10/4
One of my peeves is self appointed titles on Air Deflectors done up in cheesy hardware store/mailbox self-stick letters.

"Great White Deer Hunter"
"Mud Maniac"
" The Road Warrior"
" Worlds #1 Off-Roader"
etc etc etc

I'll notice one and point to it exclaiming...."OMG!! THERE is the "Mud Maniac" "Look everyone...THAT is the Worlds #1 Off Roader" !!!!

Just a hunch but I am guessing if they WERE the real deal, something more than scuzzy self appointed, self applied stickers on an air deflector would tell the tale!
But hey, that's just me!!!


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## vowell462 (Dec 3, 2013)

ted_BSR said:


> It weren't logic, or mathematical, or scientific. It is clearly labeled as MY BELIEF.
> 
> Now you're the grammar police too? Good grief.



Well, I disagree, but its very hard to argue with someone who readily admits that what they are trying to say is ONLY a belief and thats it. I can respect that because you can admit that it is only belief. Most cant.

Nice Bluegill you are laying next to. Use a Cricket?


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## 660griz (Dec 3, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Nice Bluegill you are laying next to. Use a Cricket?


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## Oak-flat Hunter (Dec 3, 2013)

We all pick our own path to walk. And it is truely nobody too judge or too  say what they think. When a path is chosen. because They chose a path because they were searching too....Nobody can truthfully say they have all the anwsers. Unless they are chemically imbalanced.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 3, 2013)

laskerknight said:


> We all pick our own path to walk. And it is truely nobody too judge or too  say what they think. When a path is chosen. because They chose a path because they were searching too....Nobody can truthfully say they have all the anwsers. Unless they are chemically imbalanced.



Reminds me of this old Woody Guthrie song:

Lonesome Valley
Well, you got to walk that lonesome valley / You got to walk it by yourselves / Nobody else can walk it for you / You got to walk it by yourselves


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## ted_BSR (Dec 4, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Well, I disagree, but its very hard to argue with someone who readily admits that what they are trying to say is ONLY a belief and thats it. I can respect that because you can admit that it is only belief. Most cant.
> 
> Nice Bluegill you are laying next to. Use a Cricket?



Belief seems to be the MOST important thing next to the truth.

I caught that guppy with a 12 inch Greenling, on a hand line. I was going to get it mounted, and then I realized I did not need a $1200 coffee table.


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## jmharris23 (Dec 6, 2013)

There are lots of things that bug me about Christians, but probably not the same things that bug most of you.


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## Carl Cooke (Dec 22, 2013)

*I am a proud CHRISTan*

I have been taught to respect everyone, elders, other religions, different races etc.  but its like when we were little our parents told us to try something before we judged it by looks or smells.  So why not do the same with people? but to be quite frank some atheist bug the he'll out of me, but then again I am not one to judge only god can do that. Sorry in advance if I offend any of you


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## vowell462 (Dec 22, 2013)

Carl Cooke said:


> I have been taught to respect everyone, elders, other religions, different races etc.  but its like when we were little our parents told us to try something before we judged it by looks or smells.  So why not do the same with people? but to be quite frank some atheist bug the he'll out of me, but then again I am not one to judge only god can do that. Sorry in advance if I offend any of you



Can you share some of the things that bug you about Atheists? If its derailing, maybe start another thread on it. Im kinda interested to know.


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## 1222DANO (Dec 23, 2013)

gordon 2 said:


> What bugs me more about christians is that they raise kids to rebel as atheists-- young adults who think they can reason for themselves. I am especially bugged by this, because I raised two!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





love it... i'm no better... its hard to be straight but you made it easy....

So get on the Christian train and get your good and some of us get on it for good... i love all people.. but wrong me and i'll show you wrath... i can't change your mind for good but for a minute you'll defiantly see my point and its not about you, its about all of us..... everybody knows a mothers wrath..... i'm no mama but i have saw it...


 So imagine God our fathers wrath on your soul when you choose to judge... Are you the righteous one?,,,  we'll see i guess... i'll buy a ticket to your last day on earth.. i'll not judge but i just wanna see for my self.. so i'll be reminded...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA


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## 1222DANO (Dec 24, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVzCpLEMI4U


Plain as day...


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## ted_BSR (Dec 27, 2013)

vowell462 said:


> Can you share some of the things that bug you about Atheists? If its derailing, maybe start another thread on it. Im kinda interested to know.



I'd like to chime in here. It bugs me (a little) when I tell an atheist what I believe, and I tell them that it is supernatural, and they say, "that is not logical.".

And I say S-U-P-E-R-N-A-T-U-R-A-L...

Sorry if I derailed the derail.


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