# Georgia Tech fans?



## Arrow3 (Dec 3, 2013)

How do y'all feel about Paul Johnson now? I know the first year he came to the program GT beat UGA and a lot of y'all thought he was gonna be great for the program. Now years later he's still losing the games he shouldn't and hasn't been able to beat Georgia again. I have several good friends that are GT fans and most if not all of them are fed up with him. I know as a UGA fan I get fed up with Richt by not being able to motivate players and get over the hump. I also realize that there are only a few coaches in the country that I would take as a replacement.  So, is it time for Paul Johnson and GT to part ways? Many programs would say yes just because he can't beat the instate rival.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 3, 2013)

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if he got canned.  That being said his contract is through 2016 and I'm not sure we can afford to fire him.

We lost one game this year we should have never lost and that was to Virginia Tech.    We should have found a way to win the UGA game as well.  I'm not satisfied with 7-5 seasons where we lose every big game.

If you want to talk replacements I don't know where I would start.  My dream coach at GT is Steve Spurrier but I know he ain't coming anytime soon.


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## bigfeet (Dec 3, 2013)

It might be time for Tech to look at this game with Georgia like Georgia apparently does playing Bama,don't play until it becomes competitive again


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

I don't think he's a bad game day coach but I think he's a sorry recruiter and / or sorry at developing kids.   Simply put look at the number of kids he's put in the NFL (that weren't Gailey's) recruits and look at the number from Gailey's teams and O'Leary's teams.

PJ is of the belief that he can plug anyone into his system and get the same results.   Sorry, but I don't buy it at all.   There are very few players on Tech's squad that would be starters on any other team in the ACC.  The numbers don't lie, look at PJs record the first two years when he was mostly using Gailey's recruits and compare it since.   Quite a difference.    In his 7 year tenure he's 1-6 against VT, Miami, and UGA.   With Clemson on a serious uptick, he's not going to beat them with Conference USA level talent.


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## Matthew6 (Dec 3, 2013)

Nitram4891 said:


> It wouldn't hurt my feelings if he got canned.  That being said his contract is through 2016 and I'm not sure we can afford to fire him.
> 
> We lost one game this year we should have never lost and that was to Virginia Tech.    We should have found a way to win the UGA game as well.  I'm not satisfied with 7-5 seasons where we lose every big game.
> 
> If you want to talk replacements I don't know where I would start.  My dream coach at GT is Steve Spurrier but I know he ain't coming anytime soon.



Nice avatar Martin. 
THWGA.


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## bigfeet (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> I don't think he's a bad game day coach but I think he's a sorry recruiter and / or sorry at developing kids.   Simply put look at the number of kids he's put in the NFL (that weren't Gailey's) recruits and look at the number from Gailey's teams and O'Leary's teams.
> 
> PJ is of the belief that he can plug anyone into his system and get the same results.   Sorry, but I don't buy it at all.   There are very few players on Tech's squad that would be starters on any other team in the ACC.  The numbers don't lie, look at PJs record the first two years when he was mostly using Gailey's recruits and compare it since.   Quite a difference.    In his 7 year tenure he's 1-6 against VT, Miami, and UGA.   With Clemson on a serious uptick, he's not going to beat them with Conference USA level talent.


what he said


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## Arrow3 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> I don't think he's a bad game day coach but I think he's a sorry recruiter and / or sorry at developing kids.   Simply put look at the number of kids he's put in the NFL (that weren't Gailey's) recruits and look at the number from Gailey's teams and O'Leary's teams.
> 
> PJ is of the belief that he can plug anyone into his system and get the same results.   Sorry, but I don't buy it at all.   There are very few players on Tech's squad that would be starters on any other team in the ACC.  The numbers don't lie, look at PJs record the first two years when he was mostly using Gailey's recruits and compare it since.   Quite a difference.    In his 7 year tenure he's 1-6 against VT, Miami, and UGA.   With Clemson on a serious uptick, he's not going to beat them with Conference USA level talent.



There are two player on GT's team that I really like and I think they will be a place for both in the NFL....Jeremiah Attaochu and Robert Godhigh.....Robert reminds me of a Darren Sproles type.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 3, 2013)

I have no doubt that this system will work with the right players but there lies the problem, hardly anyone with dreams of making it in the NFL wants to come play in this system. Tech is already at a disadvantage in recruiting and now we're trying to recruit around this offense also.

I'll never truly understand though how so many Tech fans stand behind Paul Johnson yet they strongly supported firing Gailey. Their records are similar and CPJ can't beat UGA either, check it out the numbers don't lie. I'd also wager that Gailey's teams played a much tougher schedule while he was at Tech.


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Arrow3 said:


> There are two player on GT's team that I really like and I think they will be a place for both in the NFL....Jeremiah Attaochu and Robert Godhigh.....Robert reminds me of a Darren Sproles type.



Godhigh is impressing me for sure as in Attaochu.    What really doesn't impress me in general is the overall size / athleticsm of the offensive and defensive lines.


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## Rebel Yell (Dec 3, 2013)

I don't know who can take the Jackets any higher.  If they had a defense, they'd be dangerous.


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## DSGB (Dec 3, 2013)

bigfeet said:


> It might be time for Tech to look at this game with Georgia like Georgia apparently does playing Bama,don't play until it becomes competitive again



Are you saying Georgia determines when they play Alabama?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

It's a difficult question because you have to look at things in the perspective of GT's history.  How often has Georgia Tech been in the national discussion?  Once every 8-10 years?  Maybe less?  Is any coach capable of consistently taking us there with the academics of the school being what they are?  I don't know.

Gailey never beat UGA.  Gailey never won an ACC championship.  Gailey never developed a QB.  And he had more talent to work with.  Some was his own doing, yes, due to his NFL experience and running a pro-style offense.  Gailey also had a good defense.  Most of the NFL talent from Gailey's teams were on the D side of the ball.  Calvin and Tashard were the big standouts of his offenses.  But don't forget Tashard transferred here from Oklahoma because of a sick family member.  Gailey had busts like Ball, Bennett, Bilbo, Suggs, Ezemife, etc.  PJ Daniels was successful at Tech but he was a walk-on to start with.  I have no problem at all saying I like Paul Johnson a lot more than Chan Gailey.

O'Leary had a ton of academic exceptions for his players compared to what CPJ gets.  He was able to take JUCO transfers.  And we got flunkgate because of it.  The Hill tightened up the standards a lot.  But honestly, why are we even talking about O'Leary?  He left us for a better gig.  We didn't screw that up, he did.  And again, most of the big names from O'Leary's teams that did something in the NFL were defensive players.  And he was 52-33 at GT.  It's not like he was Bobby Dodd reincarnate. He did well against the Donnan-led Bulldogs.  He never beat FSU.  Clemson wasn't what it is right now.  Miami and Virginia Tech were in the Big East.

So we have a coach who won 7 games per year despite having more talent and running a pro-style system.  And we have a coach who wins 7 (actually more) games per year in spite of the talent.  Even when the offense isn't great, its a top 25 offense.  It puts up a ton of points... enough to win most games.  

Its a catch-22.  PJ is not a great coach without his offensive system.  He's a jerk but not in the way that makes players revere him and love him like a father figure.  Yes, he thinks any old player can be plugged into his system and it will be successful.  He's wrong on that and I hope he sees it and does something about it.  I think we have some pretty good offensive players on the squad right now, even if they're not going to be NFL players.  Joe Hamilton wasn't an NFL player, either.  Travis Custis is a highly regarded RB that will be playing for us.  Charles Perkins was very highly recruited.  Vad Lee and Justin Thomas were very highly recruited, if not at QB.  Shamire Devine was highly recruited.  Deandre Smelter has an NFL future, IMO.  The defense actually has quite a few good players on it and I think even more in the pipeline.  I think Roof will do a good job recruiting his side of the ball.

So the end-result question has to be "Can anyone do better?"  History kinda says no, at least not on a consistent basis.  If we get some stud coach, history says he'll leave when he gets a better offer.  

As for UGA, I hate losing the game as much or anybody.  I've been to every UGA/GT game since my Freshman year, save one when I was in Virginia for Thanksgiving.  The fact is that this is the best 13 year run of UGA football history.  They've never won as many games in a span like they have right now.  They have the best Coach I think they've ever had.  They have other SEC teams winning titles to make them look good.  They have a football crazy fan base.  They have ESPN covering every move their conference makes.

It is no big surprise that they are dominating the rivalry in this, their best run in 100+ years.

But it will not last forever.  It never does.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

Still a big PJ fan.  I would accept his firing if the school agreed the new coach could recruit 70% partial qualifiers like uga.  Truth is the only way GT is getting a better coach than PJ is if they get a young up and comer from a smaller program.  This guy will then leave in three years for a school where he can establish a legacy.  GT needs to change the way they approach football.  Then look at the coaching position is my opinion.  Firing CPJ would just be a lame attempt at quieting voices that likely don't have the qualifications to make such decisions.  BTW, Richt is the best thing to happen to UGA football outside of maybe HW.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> It is no big surprise that they are dominating the rivalry in this, their best run in 100+ years.
> 
> But it will not last forever.  It never does.



Since 1978, GT has won 8 games vs UGA.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> Since 1978, GT has won 8 games vs UGA.



1978-2000 - 22 games.  GT won 7 of them.  15-7 is a whole lot better than 12-1.

I don't really ever expect to be 50-50 with UGA.  The schools are hardly even comparable on any level so its no surprise UGA would win a majority of the football games.  1 out of 3 is about what I figure GT should probably be capable of winning, so 15-7 is right on it.

And honestly, there have been a number of close games in the last 12 years that a play here or there was the difference.  I'm not one for moral victories, but sometimes I am actually surprised by how close the games are.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> 1978-2000 - 22 games.  GT won 7 of them.  15-7 is a whole lot better than 12-1.
> 
> I don't really ever expect to be 50-50 with UGA.  The schools are hardly even comparable on any level so its no surprise UGA would win a majority of the football games.  1 out of 3 is about what I figure GT should probably be capable of winning, so 15-7 is right on it.
> 
> And honestly, there have been a number of close games in the last 12 years that a play here or there was the difference.  I'm not one for moral victories, but sometimes I am actually surprised by how close the games are.



I hear ya.


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> O'Leary had a ton of academic exceptions for his players compared to what CPJ gets.  He was able to take JUCO transfers.  And we got flunkgate because of it.  The Hill tightened up the standards a lot.  But honestly, why are we even talking about O'Leary?  He left us for a better gig.  We didn't screw that up, he did.  And again, most of the big names from O'Leary's teams that did something in the NFL were defensive players.  And he was 52-33 at GT.  It's not like he was Bobby Dodd reincarnate. He did well against the Donnan-led Bulldogs.  He never beat FSU.  Clemson wasn't what it is right now.  Miami and Virginia Tech were in the Big East.
> 
> So we have a coach who won 7 games per year despite having more talent and running a pro-style system.  And we have a coach who wins 7 (actually more) games per year in spite of the talent.  Even when the offense isn't great, its a top 25 offense.  It puts up a ton of points... enough to win most games.



A ton might be a bit of a stretch, more yes but a ton - probably not.   I think O'Leary had one Juco transfer that I'm aware of.   Gailey got quite a few exemptions too because he was willing to fight for them.  The word is PJ pretty much gives the middle finger to fighting the Hill, given his overall demeanor and attitude I believe that's very possible.  

In O'Leary you had a coach who took over a program in complete free fall and turned it around in two seasons and became relevant again in the third season.   I was at Georgia Tech during the Bill Lewis years and we were getting blown out by Virginia, UNC, and even Maryland and Duke one year.    There is no doubt whatsoever he left the program in far better shape than it was when he took over.  We were coming off 5-6. 5-6, and 1-10 seasons.      George's last 5 years we finished in the top 25.   PJ took over a team that had been to to 11 consecutive bowl games and he finished ranked the first two years and we've not sniffed the top #25 in the final polls since.

Yeah Georgie never beat FSU, but FSU never finished outside of the top #5 in the final polls between 1987 and 2001.   That's a far cry from #23 FSU Team in 2008 and the unranked 7-6 FSU in 2009.

The whole point in bringing up O'Leary is that he took over a miserable football team and transformed GT into a team that consistently finished in the top 25.   It's not like he is Nick Saban or Steve Spurrier as a head coach but he proved we don't have to settle for sub par seasons with 4 out of conference games against 2-3 patsies and get our butts handed to us yearly by the big 4.  That's where we are right now and giving PJ's recruiting, that's not going to change.   

I don't expect Tech to be a team that's pushing 9-10 wins a season but we're capable of better than we're currently at.   Here are the numbers that should concern every Georgia Tech fan.   PJ was 19-7 in his first two seasons which is great.   However, we're 28-24 the last four years.   Gailey was 30-21 in his last four years and we fired him.    George O'Leary 35-14 in his last 4 years, all top #25 finishes.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

As I said...big PJ fan but I would trade him for GOL immediately.  The academic dorks would never allow it though.


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## bigfeet (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> It's a difficult question because you have to look at things in the perspective of GT's history.  How often has Georgia Tech been in the national discussion?  Once every 8-10 years?  Maybe less?  Is any coach capable of consistently taking us there with the academics of the school being what they are?  I don't know.
> 
> Gailey never beat UGA.  Gailey never won an ACC championship.  Gailey never developed a QB.  And he had more talent to work with.  Some was his own doing, yes, due to his NFL experience and running a pro-style offense.  Gailey also had a good defense.  Most of the NFL talent from Gailey's teams were on the D side of the ball.  Calvin and Tashard were the big standouts of his offenses.  But don't forget Tashard transferred here from Oklahoma because of a sick family member.  Gailey had busts like Ball, Bennett, Bilbo, Suggs, Ezemife, etc.  PJ Daniels was successful at Tech but he was a walk-on to start with.  I have no problem at all saying I like Paul Johnson a lot more than Chan Gailey.
> 
> ...


This guy makes more sense on the Tech situation than anyone else on here by far.By the way,do you think Roof will stay?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Top 25 is great, but let's also be realistic and know that 7-5 (twice) and 8-4 are not going to get you AP rankings of #25 and #20 like it got O'Leary in three of those years.

PJ can very possibly be 8-5 this year.  He finished 8-5 in 2011 with a win over a top 5 Clemson.  We were not ranked in the AP that year nor will we be even if we win our bowl game this year and finish 8-5.

PJ is 48-31 at GT.  O'Leary was 52-33.  O'Leary had what should have been a Heisman winner for three of those years and he had Jon Tenuta.  PJ's DC's have not worked out, for whatever reason.  I don't remove all blame from him because he made the hires, but sometimes things just don't work out.  Grantham is not the second coming of Dick Lebeau, either...

And my final point, if I concede that GT was so much better in 2000 with GOL is.... George O'Leary left us for a "better" job.  There are a whole slew of coaches who would do the same.  Paul Johnson isn;t one of them, imo.


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> As I said...big PJ fan but I would trade him for GOL immediately.  The academic dorks would never allow it though.



That's part of the problem, if GT wants to ride the academic high horse then we're going to have to accept the fact we won't be much better than a 7-5 team even with the soft schedule we have.   My opinion which is worth as much as you paid for it would be to get rid  of Johnson and hire a young charismatic coach that can recruit well and accept the fact he'll be gone right about the time things get really exciting for us again.

It can be tough being a GT fan.


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## Arrow3 (Dec 3, 2013)

Jody Hawk said:


> I have no doubt that this system will work with the right players but there lies the problem, hardly anyone with dreams of making it in the NFL wants to come play in this system. Tech is already at a disadvantage in recruiting and now we're trying to recruit around this offense also.
> 
> I'll never truly understand though how so many Tech fans stand behind Paul Johnson yet they strongly supported firing Gailey. Their records are similar and CPJ can't beat UGA either, check it out the numbers don't lie. I'd also wager that Gailey's teams played a much tougher schedule while he was at Tech.



Gailey's biggest downfall was riding Reggie Ball so long. There's no telling what Calvin Johnson could have done with a good Qb.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Rebel Yell said:


> I don't know who can take the Jackets any higher.  If they had a defense, they'd be dangerous.



Ahahha Hahahaha good laugh

Paul is 1-15 the last 4 years against these 4 teams

Uga
Clem
VT
Mia

Yeah I don't know if that's the best we can do were on trouble

Paul's problem is he is the worst recruiter we've had in some time. Where are 
Bebe Thomas
Derrick Morgan
Jon Dwyer
Morgan Burnett
Michael Johnson
Wheeler
Roddy
Calvin
Joe Hamilton
Charlie Rogers
Brooking 
Dez white
Kelly Campbell
Etx


Any scheme can when with a high level of talent 
Period

Why does uga win despite injuries and a backup qb? More talent

Paul's offense had the ball twice in the last 8 minutes with 3 timeouts. No points. A field goal would've won it


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> The difference is PJ took over a team that went to 11 straight bowl games.  O'Leary took over one of the worst football teams in the country.
> 
> So with that in mind look at the last four years of each coach's tenure.   PJ is 28-24 for and O'Leary was 35-14.  Quite a difference and is reflected by the rankings.
> 
> ...




Oleary beat uga 3 in a row. First and ony coach since Dodd
Oleary finished 5 straight years in the top 25 97-2001
Paul has 08-09 with gaileys star recruits


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

Arrow3 said:


> Gailey's biggest downfall was riding Reggie Ball so long. There's no telling what Calvin Johnson could have done with a good Qb.



You're close.  Most GT and Georgia fans give RB heck but Gailey didn't recruit anyone that could beat out Reggie.  Reggie gave it his best but wasn't cut out to be a QB.  Renfree was coming in when Gailey was fired and switched to Duke last minute because he wouldn't have cut it as an option qb.  He or Nesbitt might have done something but the OL was in shambles.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> The difference is PJ took over a team that went to 11 straight bowl games.  O'Leary took over one of the worst football teams in the country.
> 
> So with that in mind look at the last four years of each coach's tenure.   PJ is 28-24 for and O'Leary was 35-14.  Quite a difference and is reflected by the rankings.
> 
> ...


George bolted before we got that 8th won in 2001.  Screw him.  I'll never understand why so many Tech fans love this guy that abandoned the program he "built.". Hope he's happy practicing players to death at powerhouse UCF.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Top 25 is great, but let's also be realistic and know that 7-5 (twice) and 8-4 are not going to get you AP rankings of #25 and #20 like it got O'Leary in three of those years.
> 
> PJ can very possibly be 8-5 this year.  He finished 8-5 in 2011 with a win over a top 5 Clemson.  We were not ranked in the AP that year nor will we be even if we win our bowl game this year and finish 8-5.
> 
> ...


Paul isn't one of them because no one wants the option outside of the military


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> George bolted before we got that 8th won in 2001.  Screw him.



Screw the guy beat uga 3 in a row and the only top 10 finish since 1990 (#9 in 1998)

Arguing with me is a effort in futility. Your knowledge of GT football is purely from the spectator level


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> George bolted before we got that 8th won in 2001.  Screw him.  I'll never understand why so many Tech fans love this guy that abandoned the program he "built.". Hope he's happy practicing players to death at powerhouse UCF.



If you think ANY and I do mean ANY coach wouldn't leave Georgia Tech for Notre Dame then I'm afraid you're living in a fantasy world.

They are going to a BCS game this year.   We'll go to the idontwanttobehere.com bowl and probably get our tails handed to us by the 7th place team in the Pac 12.    

Tech can do better, that's my entire point.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> If you think ANY and I do mean ANY coach wouldn't leave Georgia Tech for Notre Dame then I'm afraid you're living in a fantasy world.



I think there are 20+ schools GOL would have left for.  

308 fan, I don't give a crap if you're Joe Hamilton himself.  I know you're not, however, BC Joe is supporting this program and this coach unlike yourself.

And yes, screw the guy who have himself degrees he never earned on his resume.  Character is everything.


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> How are these years worse than O'Leary?  PJ is 48-31 at GT.  O'Leary was 52-33.



(I deleted the original and re-posted with some clarifications) 

The difference is PJ took over a team that went to 11 straight bowl games.  O'Leary took over one of the worst football teams in the country.      Yes, the ACC didn't have VT or Miami but neither team will finish ranked this year and neither finished ranked last year and we lost to both each year.   Miami hasn't finished in the top 25 since 2009 and we've reeled of 5 straight losses to them.   UNC was better then than they are now, Virginia was considerably better, NC State was much better.    Clemson isn't what they are now but they weren't exactly a doormat either.  They went bowling 1996,1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002.   The three years we beat UGA they were 9-3, 8-4, and 8-4 so it's not like we faced horrible UGA teams.   UGA had a losing season in 2010 and will either finish 9-4 or 8-5 this year.

So with that in mind look at the last four years of each coach's tenure.   PJ is 28-24 for and O'Leary was 35-14.  Quite a difference and is reflected by the rankings.   

Part of the reason that no longer gets you ranked too is that teams now play 4 OOC games and usually at least 2 of them are complete patsies.

George's top 25 rankings have one 7-5 finish, in 1997.    We were 10-2 in 1998, 9-4 in 1999, 9-3 in 2000, and 8-5 in 2001.   We've had one 8 win season since 2009 and the best season we've had since we lost 5 games.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I think there are 20+ schools GOL would have left for.
> 
> 308 fan, I don't give a crap if you're Joe Hamilton himself.



LoL you don't know jack much less joe
Spouting off a bunch of useless information is your right and it's my right to let everyone know it's WRoNg


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I think there are 20+ schools GOL would have left for.



Just out of curiosity what do you base this on?    I can see where a fella named O'Leary would see Notre Dame as his dream job.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I think there are 20+ schools GOL would have left for.
> 
> 308 fan, I don't give a crap if you're Joe Hamilton himself.  I know you're not, however, BC Joe is supporting this program and this coach unlike yourself.


you know joe personally?

He supports the coach because he has to he works for him


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Hey doc

Think richt would be 12-1 against Oleary?


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> Ahahha Hahahaha good laugh
> 
> Paul is 1-15 the last 4 years against these 4 teams
> 
> ...



UGA still had very good players and couldn't get anything done on O in the first half until their last drive.  Mason the backup played well...I know Murray is a great qb but imo Mason wasn't their issue.  The uga receivers had a case of the drops.  Would Murray somehow have fixed the wr's dropping the ball?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> you know joe personally?
> 
> He supports the coach because he has to he works for him



Does he have to work for him?

Well never know what O'Leary would have done against Rich, do we?  Because he quit to go somewhere else.

For the record, your buddy Carl can tell you I don't make excuses for PJ.  Weve talked a bunch and I have e try of criticism for him.  That whole line he used about PJ believing he can plug any player into his system?  He got that from me a few days ago. 

But I balk at the notion that somehow PJ is worse for our program than Gailey and a guy who quit to go elsewhere.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> Paul isn't one of them because no one wants the option outside of the military



Poor logic because those schools use the option as a way of leveling the playing field in skill and size.  They use it because it works, if it didn't they wouldn't be using it.


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## Muddyfoots (Dec 3, 2013)

This is a first.

Tech fans fighting..


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

For the record I'm not a PJ hater.   As I said in the first post, I think he's a pretty good game day coach.   I just don't think he's getting in done from a recruiting perspective which gives me little hope that things are going to change!

He's going to beat very few teams that he's grossly outclassed in talent.   I think we can do better.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

FWIW, using players recruited before 02 is useless in any comparison.  Remember, one good thing about O'Leary (buzz you were there so you can tell me if I am not correct) is that he fought for exceptions and had methods of keeping up with their classwork.  Chan came in and admitted himself the academics caught him by suprise.  Roof has said he can't touch 40% of the players recruited in the late 90's.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Talking about George O'Leary really does no good.  He's not coming back even if GT wanted him.

If your point is that a coach could come in build a good team and then leave like Olear did, I'd say you're probably right.  If that's what you want for GT, that's your prerogative.  That's not what I would prefer.  308 loves his coach.  I get that.  Do you also love your school?  If so, buy tickets.  Get your butts in the stands.  Give to the AT Fund.  Don't just show up on a message board to bash when we lose a game.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Does he have to work for him?
> 
> Well never know what O'Leary would have done against Rich, do we?  Because he quit to go somewhere else.
> 
> ...


Curious
Did you go to tech? Did you graduate from tech?
PJ can't recruit because no one wants to run the option. Playing in the triple option isn't prepping for the NFL whether you're a qb, linemen, etc 
The scheme, techniques etc are not something most Kids want to do. Period 
On defense how do you get god practice rushing the passer against a bunch of cut blocking undersized linemen with 3 foot splits? Do you practixe against slide protection, turn protection, or max protection? As a DB do you see formations and route combinations that pro teams use? If PJ could get gaileys players then Yes he would win more

So Paul is the 18th highest paid coach in NCAA and hasn't finished in top 25 since 2009. Good job?


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Does he have to work for him?
> 
> Well never know what O'Leary would have done against Rich, do we?  Because he quit to go somewhere else.
> nd a guy who quit to go elsewhere.


Oleary beat uga in a bowl game couple years back. At UCf

LOL


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Poor logic because those schools use the option as a way of leveling the playing field in skill and size.  They use it because it works, if it didn't they wouldn't be using it.



Don't look now but that's what we are getting to look like 

Poor logic? Why are we the only other school in div 1 that run it?


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

O'Leary is relevant because we've been in a better place in recent memory showing it is possible to be relevant at GT.   I have to think we can get there again!


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> FWIW, using players recruited before 02 is useless in any comparison.  Remember, one good thing about O'Leary (buzz you were there so you can tell me if I am not correct) is that he fought for exceptions and had methods of keeping up with their classwork.  Chan came in and admitted himself the academics caught him by suprise.  Roof has said he can't touch 40% of the players recruited in the late 90's.



Well I will ask Ted when I see him next if that is what he really thinks. I was there before 2002 and know plenty of people there after and there now


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Talking about George O'Leary really does no good.  He's not coming back even if GT wanted him.
> 
> If your point is that a coach could come in build a good team and then leave like Olear did, I'd say you're probably right.  If that's what you want for GT, that's your prerogative.  That's not what I would prefer.  308 loves his coach.  I get that.  Do you also love your school?  If so, buy tickets.  Get your butts in the stands.  Give to the AT Fund.  Don't just show up on a message board to bash when we lose a game.


I'm not worried about what I've done for GT, I feel comfortable in what I've done and will do


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> Don't look now but that's what we are getting to look like
> 
> Poor logic? Why are we the only other school in div 1 that run it?



If it will make you feel any better Southern will be FBS next year and last I checked Southern and those service academies are D1.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> Curious
> Did you go to tech? Did you graduate from tech?
> PJ can't recruit because no one wants to run the option. Playing in the triple option isn't prepping for the NFL whether you're a qb, linemen, etc
> The scheme, techniques etc are not something most Kids want to do. Period
> ...



Yes I went to Tech.  Yes I graduated.

The offense scores points.  Its a top 25 offense.  Why do you care if future NFL players are doing the scoring or if 5-7 scrubs are doing the scoring?

Your point about the defense is valid, although I know a few players on the team and they say they practice against the scout team most of the time, not the option, which is what PJ says.  They are still players recruited for the option, I know that.  As far as DB's... our receivers run 'run and shoot' routes.  X, W, Y, and Z.  Left right.  Switch, go, etc.  They still run that in the NFL, right?

You make points.  I make points.  You're not wrong but neither am I.

PJ is better than Bailey.  He might not be as good as GOL but he's not an option due to his own choice.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

I'll feel better when apathy and Mediocrity are no longer acceptable from tech fans...
You apparently feel 1-15 against the big 4 over the last 4 years is acceptable as well as no top25 finishes


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> Well I will ask Ted when I see him next if that is what he really thinks. I was there before 2002 and know plenty of people there after and there now



Since you were there before and know people there now...tell me if you believe the admissions tightened after flunkgate.  We both know the answer.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> I'm not worried about what I've done for GT, I feel comfortable in what I've done and will do



As do I.

If you read the thread and read my posts you'll know I don't accept mediocrity either.  I hate the excuses and I've heard PJ talk about getting rid of excuses.  And to his credit, he doesn't make excuses.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> I'll feel better when apathy and Mediocrity are no longer acceptable from tech fans...
> You apparently feel 1-15 against the big 4 over the last 4 years is acceptable as well as no top25 finishes



The Tech fans here are not your enemy.  Since you claim to be a former player perhaps you should put your energy into getting with your contacts over at GT instead of crying to people on a msg board.  I have already said I would be OK with PJ being fired.  I just don't believe that will magically solve any problems.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Yes I went to Tech.  Yes I graduated.
> 
> The offense scores points.  Its a top 25 offense.  Why do you care if future NFL players are doing the scoring or if 5-7 scrubs are doing the scoring?
> 
> ...


Look I get tired of people taking shots at Oleary. People who have no clue other than what so and so told em or what they read in the urinal constitution.
I will tell you how practice works

During the spring and during 2 a days, it's one vs ones two vs twos etc. once the season starts the. You split up the scout teams and practice Against them. 

If you're a defensive end and you want to hone your pass rush skills, it ain't happening against the scout offensive line. It happens against the starters. Well our starters can't pass block for crap. Especially with 3 foot splits. 
So basically the scout off line that preps is each week is a bunch of younger smaller weaker future cut-blocking guys. 

As far as your description of passing game, I'm not sure where to start. X, y, and z aren't routes. Those are receivers. I'm not sure what a run and shoot route is, anyway my point is Paul's offense would work given the right players but they aren't coming. When you're go to receiver is a 5'9" guy then you know passing isn't you're strength.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Since you were there before and know people there now...tell me if you believe the admissions tightened after flunkgate.  We both know the answer.



Dwyer
Bebe
Morgan Burnett
Derrick Morgan
Michael Johnson
Calvin
Etc

All signed after flunkgate

Next


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

Nice way to get off the point and evade the question.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

To answer your question, it depends on who you ask. 
Whom have you asked? Did you read it on a forum or speak to someone in the GT football office or registrars office?

So you discount the fact that all those players signed afterwards mean nothing and still use the hill as a crutch?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> As far as your description of passing game, I'm not sure where to start. X, y, and z aren't routes. Those are receivers. I'm not sure what a run and shoot route is, anyway my point is Paul's offense would work given the right players but they aren't coming. When you're go to receiver is a 5'9" guy then you know passing isn't you're strength.



You've got be kidding me.  I know what X Y W and Z are.  RnS routes are much the same as any routes... go/fly, fade, out, hitch, etc. except many times they are options for the receivers.  They feel where the coverage is and adjust their routes accordingly.  They run a flag or an out, a hitch or a go, etc.

Any offense works if the right players are coming, you would think.  But Gailey had much higher talent yet his offense didn't perform anywhere near where PJ's offense performs...

For the record, I dont bring up GOL in these discussions.  Someone else always does.  All I do is state the fact that GOL is not our coach because of his own choice, not GTs, and he is never coming back.  

And again, if the point is that a guy can come in and build GT up in 5 years and then leave for a bigger job, then I agree.  But that's not what I want for GT.


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## Grand Slam (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm still a huge PJ fan. If he had "SEC" type talent, you'd hate to see what he could do, but he doesn't. Our system is a talent neutralizer, for the most part. Why would we run the same offense as UGA? Programs take time to build and I still think he can get us there. With that said, PJ has my full support next year then I'm done if I don't see vast improvement.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> You've got be kidding me.  I know what X Y W and Z arech or a go, etc.
> 
> Any offense works if the right players are coming, you would think.  But Gailey had much higher talent yet his offense didn't perform anywhere near where PJ's offense performs...


Yes gailey had players and Patrick nix. That's why yor offense stunk. He is now a high school coach I think. The guy before him that gailey didn't like? Coaches at penn state now


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

As for the talent available that can gain admission to GT... there is plenty of talent out there that can get in to GT.

That doesn't mean they will all want to, but I've always said we must do a better job finding them and getting them.

I think the plan of recruiting more nationally and recruiting private schools is a good one.  I also know DRad had PJ's recruiting budget at bare bones and Bobinski, by some reports, has tripled it.

BTW... bball team with a halftime lead over Illinois.  On ESPN.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

Doc 
Krazie
Sorry if I was rude or offensive. 
I'm sick of. Being a perennial 500 team


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## Arrow3 (Dec 3, 2013)

Would you guys support GT if they fired CPJ and hired Orgeron ?


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## Grand Slam (Dec 3, 2013)

Arrow3 said:


> Would you guys support GT if they fired CPJ and hired Orgeron ?



Have to support GT but I like my coach. Don't need wild boyz


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Arrow3 said:


> Would you guys support GT if they fired CPJ and hired Orgeron ?



There is no world in which I don't support GT, but I don't like Orgeron.

308, no problem.  I'm not happy where we're at but I don't want to fire PJ, either.  I think he makes a lot of sense for us.


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

Ok - guys, good discussion but let me reel it back in this way.   All of us want to win.  Any of us would be a big supporter of PJ IF (and this is a HUGE IF) he were able to get the players needed to win the big games we all want to win.   I'm a firm believer that when we play the Miami, VT, UGA, Clemson, and even BYU we are currently out manned at nearly every position.    I just don't see Johnson being able to turn the corner and recruit the players needed to turn this around, I hope he proves me wrong and I will be the first to eat crow if he does.  

If you think this is as good as it's going to get, barring a year here or there,  then let's just accept this is pretty much where we're at as a program and end the discussion.    I'm quite sure we can do better, we have done better, how much better on a consistent basis remains to be answered.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

308fan said:


> To answer your question, it depends on who you ask.
> Whom have you asked? Did you read it on a forum or speak to someone in the GT football office or registrars office?
> 
> So you discount the fact that all those players signed afterwards mean nothing and still use the hill as a crutch?



No, you seem to forget this is an ongoing conversation.  I have said in this thread that I would be OK with firing PJ and would trade him right now for GOL.  Have also said I would rather the school look at how it handles the football program and the academics before making a decision to let PJ go.  

Which brings us to our question...your conversation skills and the fact that graduation rates are higher than ever prove the players intelligence has improved since the Oleary years.  Likely a result of higher admissions standards.


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## 308fan (Dec 3, 2013)

If Paul could get the players he inherited again 
Dwyer
And crew 

Then we saw what he did and yes that would be good 

But it's year. 6

We have no one as good as the players above


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Which brings us to our question...your conversation skills and the fact that graduation rates are higher than ever prove the players intelligence has improved since the Oleary years.  Likely a result of higher admissions standards.



If your're going to be snippy and insult one of my best friends, I'd be willing to bet that 308fan pays more in Federal income taxes a year than you make in 3 years.    He also graduated from GT.  Care to compare your education?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> If your're going to be snippy, I'd be willing to bet that 308fan pays more in Federal income taxes a year than you make in 3 years.    He also graduated from GT.  Care to compare your education?



Well I guess this thread lasted longer before having the GT grad egos show up than they usually do, but alas, there it is again.  

I'm officially done with it.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> If your're going to be snippy and insult one of my best friends, I'd be willing to bet that 308fan pays more in Federal income taxes a year than you make in 3 years.    He also graduated from GT.  Care to compare your education?



That would be a pretty large and impressive number.  It is possible but not probable.  I'll cut the match short and just say if we ever meet the beers are on him.


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## brownceluse (Dec 3, 2013)

Wow


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## Buzz (Dec 3, 2013)

No ego here, but when someone personally insults one of my best friends I'm going to throw it back.      The thread was going pretty well up to that point, but insult my friends and I'm going to say something back regardless of the real world or the pretend world of the Internet.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 3, 2013)

Buzz said:


> No ego here, but when someone personally insults one of my best friends I'm going to throw it back.      The thread was going pretty well up to that point.



If I offended you or 308 I apologize.  He was responding in a way that caused me to question if he was really paying attention to the conversation.  I understand he was just defending what he believed was a slight towards his ex-coach.


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## Unicoidawg (Dec 3, 2013)

All right guys...... as much as I LOVE to see techies waller in the mud, the personal stuff needs to stay out of the discussion here.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 3, 2013)

Grand Slam said:


> I'm still a huge PJ fan. If he had "SEC" type talent, you'd hate to see what he could do, but he doesn't. Our system is a talent neutralizer, for the most part. Why would we run the same offense as UGA? Programs take time to build and I still think he can get us there. With that said, PJ has my full support next year then I'm done if I don't see vast improvement.



What would you consider as a vast improvement?


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## Beartrkkr (Dec 3, 2013)

Outsider looking in, but I find it hard that believe that many of the top receivers and passing QBs want to go to GT.  Therein lies part of the problem. Their best receiver has 420 yards for the year on 21 catches.  Some receivers are getting 80+ touches in a different system.

Even the mobile QBs that can throw are generally going to read option/spread type teams where they can put up gaudy numbers (look at me NFL) and not get blown up on every other play.  One of the problems with the triple option is that well disciplined teams can neutralize it unless there is a significant passing threat.  Sure you can catch many teams off balance since they don't see it like they used to.  That's fine if you want to be 7-5 maybe 8-4 every year, with a 10 win season thrown in every so often depending on your schedule.


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## elfiii (Dec 4, 2013)

I'm as hard core a Dawg fan as they come but my dad was a GT Alumni. I'm old enough to remember the Bobby Dodd days when Tech was still a football powerhouse.

The difference between then and now is the alumni. Back then the alumni thought fielding a top notch team was important and they made it clear to the college administration.

Ya'll could do it again if you wanted to.


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## Grand Slam (Dec 4, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> What would you consider as a vast improvement?



Not sure if I can put any numbers on it. Probably more of an eye test type thing. If I was forced to, probably 9-10 wins, beat 2 of the big 4 on our schedule, and no more giving away games.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 4, 2013)

elfiii said:


> I'm as hard core a Dawg fan as they come but my dad was a GT Alumni. I'm old enough to remember the Bobby Dodd days when Tech was still a football powerhouse.
> 
> The difference between then and now is the alumni. Back then the alumni thought fielding a top notch team was important and they made it clear to the college administration.
> 
> Ya'll could do it again if you wanted to.



It's possible but don't you realize there are some glaring differences between football then and now?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 4, 2013)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> It's possible but don't you realize there are some glaring differences between football then and now?



Glaring differences in what GT is as a school now as well.

When Lee's daddy was there it was a regional technical school churning out mostly blue collar engineers.

Now it is a world ranked research institute with emphasis in high technology.

Different students and different alumni nowadays.


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## elfiii (Dec 4, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> When Lee's daddy was there it was a regional technical school churning out mostly blue collar engineers.
> 
> Now it is a world ranked research institute with emphasis in high technology.
> 
> Different students and different alumni nowadays.



Negative Ghost Rider. Even "Back in the day" GT was turning out tip top engineers as good as any other engineering school of the day.

I can't believe I, a UGA homer, have to defend GT to a GT homer.

The rest of your post is excuses. Ya'll put some pressure on your administration and get yourself a world class football team like you know you ought to have.


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## feathersnantlers (Dec 4, 2013)

I made my points several times. CPJ must go. How that happens financially I don't know.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 4, 2013)

elfiii said:


> Negative Ghost Rider. Even "Back in the day" GT was turning out tip top engineers as good as any other engineering school of the day.
> 
> I can't believe I, a UGA homer, have to defend GT to a GT homer.
> 
> The rest of your post is excuses. Ya'll put some pressure on your administration and get yourself a world class football team like you know you ought to have.



I didn't say they weren't great engineers.  They were absolutely the best engineers the Southeast had to offer and some of the top engineers in the country.  

Doesn't change the fact that GT is a very different school today.  If you'd never heard it before, you certainly wouldn't call GT a "trade school" like it was called back then.  

The make-up of the students and faculty is very different and focus of the school is very different.  We still graduate a ton of solid, working engineers, but there is so much more to it now.

It's not an excuse, its a rebuttal to your assertion that since it was once so, it is simple to make it so again.


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## elfiii (Dec 4, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didn't say they weren't great engineers.  They were absolutely the best engineers the Southeast had to offer and some of the top engineers in the country.
> 
> Doesn't change the fact that GT is a very different school today.  If you'd never heard it before, you certainly wouldn't call GT a "trade school" like it was called back then.
> 
> ...



UGA is a very different school than when I went there. It has followed much the same path as GT, so much so it is almost unrecognizable to me today. We still got a first class football program. Ya'll could have one too. It just takes making some noise. 

In the interest of fair disclosure I am not, have never been and will never be a member of the UGA alumni association.


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## Buzz (Dec 4, 2013)

elfiii said:


> UGA is a very different school than when I went there. It has followed much the same path as GT, so much so it is almost unrecognizable to me today. We still got a first class football program. Ya'll could have one too. It just takes making some noise.



You're also a university with athlete friendly majors.   That does nothing to diminish the academic reputation of the school, which is quite good,  but you are kidding yourself if you don't believe that's a considerable advantage in recruiting.  Why are football rosters on most major programs dominated by degrees many would consider easier and often not the degree programs highly sought out by the general student population?   If this wasn't the case then why are there only 4 non-university schools in the FCS (GT, Navy, Army, Air Force) with GT consistently being the best of the four on the field?   

As a Tech alumni, I wouldn't have one issue whatsoever with the school diversifying and adding a few degree programs that potentially attract student athletes but I believe that doesn't have any chance of occuring.    Management, STAC, Architecture, and various Engineering Degrees - all of which are Bachelor of Science degrees are not exactly the staple of football rosters nationwide.  

This thread has taken many twists and turns.  The real issue is can Johnson consistently recruit the talent needed to take Tech to the next level?     I'm of the belief he can't, but he will get another year or two - mostly because of how the contract was written.   Is Tech even in a better position now that it was when he took over?    Even though pending the bowl game - he's going to finish 8-5 or 7-6.  That doesn't sound terrible but Tech won exactly one game against a team with an above .500 record.   Three of the five loses are against teams with four losses.   That's very mediocre.   I think Tech can do better, at least I want to think we can.


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## Hooked On Quack (Dec 4, 2013)

I know one thing, I'm sick and tired of having to use this avatar every year.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 4, 2013)

Hooked On Quack said:


> I know one thing, I'm sick and tired of having to use this avatar every year.



It's UNSTOPPABLE!


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## Browning Slayer (Dec 4, 2013)

Hooked On Quack said:


> I know one thing, I'm sick and tired of having to use this avatar every year.




I'm NOT!!

Keep Paul forever..


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## Buck (Dec 4, 2013)

Hooked On Quack said:


> I know one thing, I'm sick and tired of having to use this avatar every year.



Nothing wrong with that avatar..


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## Hooked On Quack (Dec 4, 2013)

rex upshaw said:


> It's UNSTOPPABLE!





Browning Slayer said:


> I'm NOT!!
> 
> Keep Paul forever..





Buck said:


> Nothing wrong with that avatar..





We're DUE !!!


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 4, 2013)

Hooked On Quack said:


> I know one thing, I'm sick and tired of having to use this avatar every year.



It's not worth the risk of having that stupid mutt associated with my good name...

You, on the other hand... what's there to lose?


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## Hooked On Quack (Dec 4, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> It's not worth the risk of having that stupid mutt associated with my good name...
> 
> You, on the other hand... what's there to lose?







Wow, no wonder folks don't like GT fanzzz...No No:


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## Browning Slayer (Dec 4, 2013)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> It's not worth the risk of having that stupid mutt associated with my good name...
> 
> You, on the other hand... what's there to lose?





Hooked On Quack said:


> Wow, no wonder folks don't like GT fanzzz...No No:



It's not that we don't like you guys.. 

We just feel sorry for ya!


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## Hooked On Quack (Dec 4, 2013)

Browning Slayer said:


> It's not that we don't like you guys..
> 
> We just feel sorry for ya!





Ya'll should LOVE us.


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## doenightmare (Dec 4, 2013)

Good points made by all - When Tech plays teams with inferior or equal talent they usually win. But when we go up against better talent we lose - the 4 and 5 star kids with NFL aspirations do not want to come here and hurt their chances at the next level. 

I like CPJ ok but will admit his system hurts recruiting. His dismissal would not break my heart.

Lastly, this avatar makes me feel dirty.


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## brownceluse (Dec 4, 2013)

Hooked On Quack said:


> Ya'll should LOVE us.


----------

