# Soybeans and Iron & Clay Peas



## Canuck5

Well, we planted about 1 5/8 acres of Hutchinson soybeans and iron & clay peas on friday 5/17, on 3 different plots.  I mixed 100 pounds of I&C peas with 50 lbs of SB's and inoculated them both.  They each take a different inoculant and I used a 4:1 mix of water & sugar as a sticker.

My luck usually isn't this good, but starting at 4 am till 3 pm, we got about 1" of rain on them, Saturday and by Sunday morning they had about 1/4" sprouts on them.  Everything should really take off and help tremendously with weed suppression, but we will see!

This was planted in ground I worked up a couple weeks ago.  The arrowleaf clover and oat mix, was about 3 feet tall, and I incorporated that into the ground.  I'm counting on the dead clover to release  it's nitrogen (just as a starter) and make it available for this crop.  I spread 200 lbs/acre of 0-20-20, to give these legumes the Phosphorous and Potassium they need.  Soil ph on these 3 plots is above 6.

I suspect the deer will eat the soybeans first, allowing the I & C peas to spread, or at least I hope that is the case.  I'll be back down in a couple of weeks and snap a few more pictures.

What is it about fresh, worked up ground that attracts deer?  There were tons of deer tracks all over these plots on Saturday.


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## win280

That will make a great bow season stand for someone.


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## Canuck5

Hey Win!

Yeah, I'm hoping to give the critters a different flavor of protein for fawning and antler growing, besides my clover plots.  I know it's going to go away when the frost sets in, but i plan to over seed with wheat and clover once the leaves start to turn yellow!

It's hard trying to keep up with all YOU have, but I'm doing the best I can!!!!!


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## win280

Canuck5 said:


> Hey Win!
> 
> Yeah, I'm hoping to give the critters a different flavor of protein for fawning and antler growing, besides my clover plots.  I know it's going to go away when the frost sets in, but i plan to over seed with wheat and clover once the leaves start to turn yellow!
> 
> It's hard trying to keep up with all YOU have, but I'm doing the best I can!!!!!



Did you plant this on the new property?


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## Canuck5

One acre on the camps property and 5/8 of an acre on the new ...... on their gas line.  Should be good!


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## win280

It should do well there. Got any extra??????


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## Canuck5

Sorry ... I used it all!


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## elfiii

Sounds like a good plan Canuck. The smaller plot may take a beating once everything is up good. I'm sure you know soybeans and IC peas are like crack to deer.


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## Milkman

Sounds good.............. we need pics !!!!


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## Canuck5

I'll get pics in a couple of weeks!  Either pics of a couple nice green plots or some sticks, sticking out of the ground, with hoof prints all around!  LOL!  But my purpose is not exactly to have these around for hunting, more for nutrition this summer, but if they are "there" this fall, I have a plan "B" to work from.

I wanted more acreage planted this spring, on this new property, but it just didn't work out.

Mostly on this new property we have, we want to see "who" is lurking in the bushes, so lots of cameras are up, so they will come to the crack!  

If I get lots of growth and plant material, it will give me the chance to build up some organic matter in this new soil.  It needs it.


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## GAGE

ICP's are some kind of expensive this year.


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## win280

where did you get the seed?


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## Canuck5

Yes, regular soybeans were cheaper than the ICP's ...... I guess there is a little bit of a shortage of them, or so they say


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## Canuck5

win280 said:


> where did you get the seed?



I got them up here in Marietta .... a little feed and seed place, but I know Trevor at Woodbury Fertilizer had some down there.  I had to get the inoculant online, tho


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## Canuck5

Not sure if the drought last year affected production of them or not


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## win280

Canuck5 said:


> I got them up here in Marietta .... a little feed and seed place, but I know Trevor at Woodbury Fertilizer had some down there.  I had to get the inoculant online, tho



thanks


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## Canuck5

*Ssssshhhh, they haven't found them yet*

The deer on this property have never seen cowpeas ..... soybeans, yes, so we will see how long it takes for them to figure this out.  Probably soon, I'm sure.

I'll be down next weekend and we will see.  One bystander was around.


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## livetohunt

I wonder how this upcoming drought will effect the beans and cowpeas? No rain forecasted for next 10 days. Do the young beans withstand dry weather ok?


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## Canuck5

livetohunt said:


> I wonder how this upcoming drought will effect the beans and cowpeas? No rain forecasted for next 10 days. Do the young beans withstand dry weather ok?



We will find out!  The iron & clay peas are supposed to be drought tolerant.  They are traditionally raised in more arid/drier climates like Africa, but we will see.  So far those plots have seen 2 1/4" of rain over the last 7 days.  But you're right, nothing else is in the forecast.


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## livetohunt

Canuck5 said:


> We will find out!  The iron & clay peas are supposed to be drought tolerant.  They are traditionally raised in more arid/drier climates like Africa, but we will see.  So far those plots have seen 2 1/4" of rain over the last 7 days.  But you're right, nothing else is in the forecast.



I planted some eagle forage beans about 2 weeks ago, and they are about 3-4" tall right now. I have been able to keep the deer off them so far but I'm worried with this rain forecast the beans may not grow much. The deer may mow them down soon, or the lack of rain may be hard on the young beans.


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## Canuck5

livetohunt said:


> I planted some eagle forage beans about 2 weeks ago, and they are about 3-4" tall right now. I have been able to keep the deer off them so far but I'm worried with this rain forecast the beans may not grow much. The deer may mow them down soon, or the lack of rain may be hard on the young beans.



How many acres did you plant?


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## livetohunt

Canuck5 said:


> How many acres did you plant?



Approx 1.7 acres


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## Canuck5

Well, I still see no rain in the forecast.  The cool nights and the associated heavy dew's, will help some.  Not much else we can do about it


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## Canuck5

Well the plots are being hit, but not looking bad at the moment.  Hopefully we get some more rain this week.  I found that my new spreader throws more to one side than the other, but a minor tweak will hopefully correct that.  These pictures were taken 14 days after planting


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## Canuck5

I did find that the deer are selectively going in a taking the "deer candy" (soybeans) out first.  I wished that I would've double the amount of soybeans I put in this mix.  You can see that they nibble the soybean down and left the IC peas alone, for now.  Luckily they left the 2 cotyledon leaves on the soybean, so it should regrow.


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## Canuck5

Where the turkeys came in to eat, you can see that they were pretty non-selective and nibble the soybeans, IC peas and some deer corn that I planted to act like a screen.  The good part is that you can see the IC pea stalks are growing 2 new leaves.


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## Canuck5

From a deer point of view, I would say that they are eating the soybeans and still in the clover right now.  The IC peas may have a chance to grow.


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## Canuck5

I also sprayed these plots with Clethodim (Arrow 2EC) this weekend to get some of the grass which is starting to sprout in the plots.  The smell might keep them off the plots till we get the next rain.


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## Canuck5

Just to give a little size perspective where the soybeans and cowpeas weren't touched.  Also the grass that is starting to come in.


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## Gadestroyer74

Good pictures thanks for sharing. Looks like its coming along nicely


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## Canuck5

Thanks!  Maybe in a few more weeks, I'll get a few more pics!


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## southerndraw

Good looking stuff. Well done...


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## Canuck5

Thanks!  Just working on things to make the deer want to stay on the property and improve their nutrition .....


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## win280

Canuck5 said:


> Thanks!  Just working on things to make the deer want to stay on the property and improve their nutrition .....


Ya'll need all the help you can get to keep those 2 deer on your property.
Your food plots are looking good considering the lack of rain,but we did get some yesterday and last night. It should help your beans really start growing.


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## Canuck5

LOL!!!  We decided to tie those 2 deer to a big oak tree!  Maybe that will help too!  Looks like we might have gotten 1/2" or so?  Maybe more?


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## Canuck5

3 weeks after planting, the cowpeas are about 12" tall, but the deer have figured out what they are good for!  LOL

You can see, in the middle of the pic, a soybean that was nipped off, left with 2 leaves, but should still come back.


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## Canuck5

We got 2 3/4" of rain last week and some warm weather, which has really pushed them along


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## flatwoods

Looking good! Do any of you live in GA!!???
I can't plant anything because of the rain.
I'm not complaining, because we sure need it but rain is definitely not a problem in my neck of the woods this year.


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## Canuck5

Thanks!!  I just got very lucky on timing ..... rains came the day after it got in the ground!


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## livetohunt

Do those kudzu bugs go after the peas too, or just soybeans? I may plant some peas next year.


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## Canuck5

I don't think these cowpeas will be immune to kudzu bugs ...... they just haven't found these yet, I guess.


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## awoods

We sure are lucky to have "the plot master" taking care of our food plots. Excellent work sir. Looking forward to planting that rape, mustard, alphalpha, brassica and kale this fall (and so are deer) - going to be real nice!


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## Canuck5

Hehehehehehehe!!  We will give them a buffet to choose from!!!


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## Canuck5

32 days after planting and probably 12" of rain.  The deer are in there nipping the tops off.  If we hadn't gotten all this rain and warm weather, I think the plot would look a little different.  A few broadleaf weeds trying to come thru in the thin spots.


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## livetohunt

Looking good!!


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## Gadestroyer74

Yeah man looks great I like the play by play and updates


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## Canuck5

Thanks guys!


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## Canuck5

livetohunt said:


> Do those kudzu bugs go after the peas too, or just soybeans? I may plant some peas next year.



And to answer this question, yes the Kudzu bugs are in these cowpeas ...... they just found them.


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## livetohunt

Canuck5 said:


> And to answer this question, yes the Kudzu bugs are in these cowpeas ...... they just found them.



Hopefully they wont hurt them too badly. I still have them on my eagle forage beans, but the beans are thigh high and doing great..


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## Canuck5

Glad to hear your beans are doing good!!!  Takes some pics next time you're there!

I'll be back in a couple of weeks and will be able to see if they have done much damage.


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## livetohunt

Canuck5 said:


> Glad to hear your beans are doing good!!!  Takes some pics next time you're there!
> 
> I'll be back in a couple of weeks and will be able to see if they have done much damage.



Pictures are from 1 and 2 weeks ago. Shows the kudzu bugs and plot..


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## Canuck5

Except for the bugs ....... very, very nice!!!!!!!


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## nosfedgta

How did you get the seed in the soil? broadcast? grain drill?? im curious because I have a spot that is approx. 4 acres and I would like to plant peas, oats, and clover.


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## Canuck5

They were broadcast.  I worked up the ground with a disc harrow, about 4" deep, then I broadcast the seed on top, then came back with the disc harrows set to go about 1" deep and covered them up.

The Iron & Clay peas will germinate pretty easily, with a little seed/soil contact ...... just enough to cover them .... same with the oats.  Clover should ideally be spread on a cultipacked bed, but you can get away with just broadcasting them on top, too, and let the rain push them in.

I'll have more pictures of the cowpeas this weekend


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## Canuck5

I wonder how these cowpeas would look, without the 24" of rain we have had since planting?  Well the deer are in them and hitting them hard.

I had been told that they would get in them heavy, when the cowpes started to flower.  That appears to be the case.  About 6-7 weeks after planting.

It's like they came in with a hedge trimmer and clipped the top 12" off


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## Canuck5

But they are also still hitting some clover and chicory still.

The corn in the picture, is an example of just plain "deer corn" in the bag, I planted, to use as a screen, on this particular food plot.


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## livetohunt

Still looking good...At least with all the rain we have had the leaves are growing back quickly. My forage beans are getting hammered too, but also growing back quick...


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## Canuck5

Yes they are growing back!  Both your soybeans and the cowpeas are giving great nutrition, this time of the year!


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## Triple C

We planted I/C peas last year in 2 of our biggest fields, a total of about 4 acres.  This was the 1st time we used I/C peas.  Interesting thing is that the deer didn't really hit the peas while they were growing.  Even with the heat and lack of rain last summer, the peas did really well.  Around the end of August the deer really started hammering the peas and continued well beyond frost.  Even when the field was completely brown the deer continued to feed.  Expect good things from your I/C peas.  

This year we mixed it up and planted a 80/20 mix of peas and sunflower in a smaller field and 50/50 mix of peas and soybeans in the 3 acre field and all sunflower in a new 1 acre field.  Wow!  Deer are hammering the soybeans and unlike last year, also hitting the peas pretty hard.  Guess they figured the peas out this year much earlier.

We are planting more and more of our fields in summer/fall forage to provide more protein while does are nursing and bucks are putting on antler growth.  This is our 1st year using sunflower.  We've been told to expect the deer to wipe out the sunflowers as soon as they seed out.  Right now it's pretty cool to look out at a sea of yellow.

Would love to hear from anyone that has used sunflowers.


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## Canuck5

Oh that's great information!!!!  Thanks for passing it along!


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## win280

Looking good Canuck5.You might have to fert again if we keep getting so much rain.Mine are up 8-10 " and they haven't been found yet.


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## Gadestroyer74

This is a very good thread keep it up fellas looks great !


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## Canuck5

win280 said:


> Looking good Canuck5.You might have to fert again if we keep getting so much rain.Mine are up 8-10 " and they haven't been found yet.



Yes, you're probably right!  I can't believe all the rain!  Man!!!


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## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> This is a very good thread keep it up fellas looks great !



Will do!


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## Forest Grump

Canuck5 said:


> I wonder how these cowpeas would look, without the 24" of rain we have had since planting?  Well the deer are in them and hitting them hard.
> 
> I had been told that they would get in them heavy, when the cowpeas started to flower.  That appears to be the case.  About 6-7 weeks after planting.
> 
> It's like they came in with a hedge trimmer and clipped the top 12" off



One thing you might try in those if they are browsing them more heavily than they can recover from, is take about 1/2 of it & either apply Milorganite or put up a temporary electric fence, to allow the plants to recover, but still have 1/2 of it the deer can feed in at will. Then, switch the protection to the other 1/2 the next 3-4 weeks. Thus instituting "rotational grazing". In my beans, I'll flip the fence from one end of the plot to the other half, to rest the weary ones so they can put on some new leaves. 

With peas, if I can keep them out of them the first 2-4 weeks, they get a good stand, & the deer usually won't overbrowse them until August, if the plots are big enough. (Aug & Sept they move in & pick them to stems). But they certainly will "learn" to look for them there. 1st year, they might get 3 feet high; 2nd year, as soon as they emerge they jump on them without protection to keep them off.




How bad are the Kudzu bugs damaging yours this year? All the rain has kept most of my legume planting to a minimum. Last year, Kudzu bugs really weakened my soybeans & sunn hemp; this year, I was prepared to spray them with Sevin before they could breed, but there has been too much rain to be able to drive over the fields. I still have 400 lb of peanuts & 200 lb of ICP's sitting in the shed waiting for the fields to dry.


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## Canuck5

I think that's a good idea, Forest Gump!  I probably won't be back down there for a little while, but I should be able to get one of the other members to at least spread some milorganite on part of it!

The kudzu bugs are there, definitely, but we've just had too much rain there too.  I would probably do more damage, trying to spray, than what the kudzu bugs have done, or at least, so far.  It rained shortly after I took those pictures!


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## CountryBoy77

great looking plots


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## wyldwulf

This has been a great year for the beans and peas. I finally got 2 good fields past the deer, and the result has been great. I show the pictures off like I was bragging on my kid...


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## livetohunt

wyldwulf said:


> This has been a great year for the beans and peas. I finally got 2 good fields past the deer, and the result has been great. I show the pictures off like I was bragging on my kid...



Looks good...How did you keep the deer off of it?


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## Canuck5

Beautiful plot!!


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## Triple C

Great thread!  Love the pics, comments and all the insight.  Here's a few pics taken last weekend at our place in Oglethorpe County.  Deer are hammering the I/C peas and soybeans.  Sunflowers looking pretty good.  We'll see how long they last once they start seeding out.  We're converting more of our fields to peas n beans and less in clover.  We've just struggled with clover of the past few years.  Does great in the Spring but after mowing just seems to take forever to come back and the deer seem to prefer beans n peas over clover when both are present.  After peas n beans are gone we're gonna plant oats and wheat for the winter and see how that does this year.


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## Gadestroyer74

Love those sunflowers


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## Canuck5

Very nice Triple C!  I think the I & C peas and beans are a great choice and we "give them what they want and what they need" at the right time of the year.  I will probably be replanting or maybe over seeding (depending on how many weeds come thru) this fall.

I will still keep some clover, but I plan to expand the peas & beans next year.


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## wyldwulf

For me the secret was in volume. Not in the peas and beans so much, since both of those plots are less than an acre, but rather in the addition of a couple of really healthy Durana clover and chicory plots immediately adjacent to the summer field. I had really good results with the deer staying in the Durana for the startup of the beans. They have found the beans now, and they are feeding all over them. But the growth is holding up really well. I also do not have a high deer density in this area (thank you coyotes), so the browse pressure is pretty low early on.


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## win280

wyldwulf said:


> For me the secret was in volume. Not in the peas and beans so much, since both of those plots are less than an acre, but rather in the addition of a couple of really healthy Durana clover and chicory plots immediately adjacent to the summer field. I had really good results with the deer staying in the Durana for the startup of the beans. They have found the beans now, and they are feeding all over them. But the growth is holding up really well. I also do not have a high deer density in this area (thank you coyotes), so the browse pressure is pretty low early on.


Thats what I did this year. It really is working well.I  planted mine June 29th.


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## Triple C

wyldwulf said:


> For me the secret was in volume. Not in the peas and beans so much, since both of those plots are less than an acre, but rather in the addition of a couple of really healthy Durana clover and chicory plots immediately adjacent to the summer field. I had really good results with the deer staying in the Durana for the startup of the beans. They have found the beans now, and they are feeding all over them. But the growth is holding up really well. I also do not have a high deer density in this area (thank you coyotes), so the browse pressure is pretty low early on.



Wyldwulf, we recently had a wildlife biologist from UGA out to our property and he recommended the same thing!  Our "bean field" is approximately 3 acres and the southwest section of it gets most of the shade.  Biologist recommended pure planting of clover/chicory in that section of the field and I/C peas n soybeans in the balance.  We're up to bout 8 acres of plantable acreage with the bean field being the largest.  Stripped the edges out with grain sorghum this year to provide additional cover for entering the field.  Plan to expand the bean field by a little more than an acre next year when we thin our pines.  Also, last year we dug a shallow water pond in the southeast edge of the bean field on the recommendation of the biologist.  Pond is only about 4 feet deep but holds water like crazy.  All the water drains to that section of the field.  All the critters use it!  Dug another one on the other side of our property back in January of this year that's 6 ft deep.  Pics are of bean field pond we dug last year and new pond we dug in January.


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## Canuck5

You've got it all!!!!!!!  Good job!!!!


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## livetohunt

Triple C said:


> Wyldwulf, we recently had a wildlife biologist from UGA out to our property and he recommended the same thing!  Our "bean field" is approximately 3 acres and the southwest section of it gets most of the shade.  Biologist recommended pure planting of clover/chicory in that section of the field and I/C peas n soybeans in the balance.  We're up to bout 8 acres of plantable acreage with the bean field being the largest.  Stripped the edges out with grain sorghum this year to provide additional cover for entering the field.  Plan to expand the bean field by a little more than an acre next year when we thin our pines.  Also, last year we dug a shallow water pond in the southeast edge of the bean field on the recommendation of the biologist.  Pond is only about 4 feet deep but holds water like crazy.  All the water drains to that section of the field.  All the critters use it!  Dug another one on the other side of our property back in January of this year that's 6 ft deep.  Pics are of bean field pond we dug last year and new pond we dug in January.



Good idea!! I am guessing that the landowner hunts with you? I can't imagine many landowners would allow the property to have big holes dug for small drinking ponds...lol


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## wyldwulf

Sweet! I use a 100 gal rubbermaid trough for water. That looks awesome. It is great to see that you are getting the whole package in one area. Water didn't mean much this year, but last year it was a different story. I hope to expand my bean plot idea in other areas of our property this year. I have 3 small plots where this worked well. I'm really striving for the 3 part system in my plots...fall annuals, good clover/chicory perennials, and then the bean and sorghum plots as the summer fattening plots. BTW...I also am throwing some Alyceclover in the bean plots. When the beans do get eaten down the alyce is exposed and the grazing can continue.


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## Triple C

livetohunt said:


> Good idea!! I am guessing that the landowner hunts with you? I can't imagine many landowners would allow the property to have big holes dug for small drinking ponds...lol



Actually our own property.  I took the plunge about 3 years ago and bought the property.  Ended up with 287 acres which is aplenty for our family.  Mostly my 2 sons, my grandson, me and an occasional guest.  One of my sons has a landscaping/light grading business and already owned all of the equipment we needed.  He dug both ponds with his skid steer.  Buying the property has been a true game changer for me more on a personal level than just hunting.  After the boys were grown I pretty much quit hunting.  More than anything, it has reconnected me with my boys on a much deeper level.  Rather than golfing with my buddies on the weekend I now spend most weekends hanging out with my boys at our property.  Candidly, I'm a novice when it comes to habitat management.  Learning all I can about habitat management and half the enjoyment is the learning process.  I'm relatively new to this forum but have been following it for sometime.  We get so many good ideas and advice in this forum and particularly the land management section.  If any of you guys are thinking about purchasing property I can assure you that you won't regret it.  AgGeorgia does a fine job on land financing and there are still some great deals out there on rural land.  The more rural the better!  A 75 acre tract at $1800 an acre can be financed over 20 years for less than a monthly truck payment and it won't depreciate!

Keep the ideas and advice coming on the forum!  Hope our bean field looks as good as Canucks beans within a year or 2...


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## Canuck5

Well, I was back down there Saturday to work up some ground and the deer are still working those Iron & clay Cowpeas!  The cowpeas got to be about 30" tall and now they are down to .......


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## Canuck5

I haven't done anything to keep the deer off of them.  Timing just wasn't right, plus all the rain we've had might have made the milorganite ineffective.  But having said that, my goal was to provide good nutrition, at the right time of the year and it looks like the I&C peas filled that bill.

You can see they have them nipped right down, but they are still regenerating.  The negative is that since that tall canopy of "cover" is gone, the weeds are coming thru.  The deer don't care, but i will have to decide, in 60 days or so, is to work this plot up, or work up 1/2 of it and plant with my fall mix.  I'm leaning towards working up 1/2 the end of September, letting the other 1/2 go, for 45 days and then work it up and replant.  Food for thought!


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## Canuck5

My deer corn plot screen (post 56) is doing a good job, for my purpose.  Not every stalk has an ear on it, but the ones that do, are pretty good.  Just an fyi, if you were thinking about using a $10 bag of deer corn to plant.


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## Triple C

*Update on I/C Peas & Sunflowers*

Been 2 weeks since I was last on our property.  In one of our fields we planted I/C peas & sunflowers.  Peas were just starting to climb the sunflowers 2 weeks ago.  2 weeks later they have climbed to the top of the sunflowers.  Pretty cool to see.  Deer are just hammering the peas in this plot but the sunflowers are so thick I think it provided cover for the peas.  This is our 1st year trying this and it really seems to work well.  The sunflowers are now seeding out and some already falling.  Doves are everywhere!  We planted this field around the 1st of May.


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## Canuck5

Oh that looks good!!!  I think I'll try some sunflowers next year!


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## amtarn6790

*inoculant*

Where did you find the inoculant online and is it expensive? Also have you ever tried using the DeltaAg seed coat? Does it work the same as inoculant?


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## Canuck5

The inoculant is actually a living bacteria that is placed in peat (dirt).  I was in a rush, when I decided to do the soybeans and cowpeas, but found it here.  http://www.groworganic.com/soybean-inoculant.html  The cowpea inoculant is the same one that is used for peanuts and a few other things.  http://www.groworganic.com/cowpea-peanut-and-lespedeza-inoculant-4327.html   I think it cost me $7 for shipping both.

I'm sure there were cheaper places, but inoculant is very cost effective for what you get.  The beauty of it, is (which is my plan) to plant soybeans and cowpeas in the same plots next year.  The bacteria is already in the soil and as long as I keep rotating soybeans and cowpeas in those plots, I never have to buy anymore.  The bacteria will stay alive and thrive.

If I miss one year and plant the following year, I will still be fine.  If I waited 5 years, the bacteria would've stopped multiplying and probably have died out.


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## Canuck5

amtarn6790 said:


> Where did you find the inoculant online and is it expensive? Also have you ever tried using the DeltaAg seed coat? Does it work the same as inoculant?



Oh, and no, DeltaAg coat is not the same.


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## Canuck5

Why inoculate???? The beans and peas and other legumes will grow with out them, providing you apply enough nitrogen fertilizer in the soil.  Inoculate, to get the benefit of what these legumes can do for you.

Clover is a legume.  If you go back to the start of this thread, you'll see that I disc harrowed down a 30" tall patch of Arrowleaf Clover.  I applied 200 lbs/acre of a fertilizer with no nitrogen in it 0-20-20.

I bought inoculated clover seed and it produced lots of great green leafy (protein) forage for the deer.  This clover also pulled nitrogen out of the air, and with the aid of the inoculant (bacteria), produced nodules on the root system, where the nitrogen was stored for the use of the clover.  Nice dark green, tasty leaves for the deer, that just kept producing.

The benefit and timing of me working this nice tall patch of clover into the soil, was for the next crop.  70% of the available nitrogen, in the clover, is in the stems and leaves, if it is still actively growing and not producing seed.  The other 30% is in the root system.

Me, working this into the ground, gave my next crop (soybeans & Iron & clay cowpeas), a great start!  Saved me some money, as well as giving me great "green manure".

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/management/files/sq_atn_6.pdf


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## Canuck5

This is what the old timers used to do, for fertilizer.  They would grow a clover crop and plow it under.  The nitrogen that would get released into the soil, gave the next crop a great start, but it also fed the other types of bacteria in the soil, to get the leaf matter broken down into a more useful "organic matter".  Organic matter builds top soil and feeds other plants.

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/A129/


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## Canuck5

So, from a food plotting standpoint, and the inexpensive cost of inoculant that you may only need to buy once, you get lots of great value.  How much value?  Only a soil test will tell you for sure, but you can see it in the dark green color of your plants.

http://extension.missouri.edu/p/WQ277 

Now, if I was raising clover, to bale for cattle feed, things are a little different.  All the same process's still take place, but the fact that the leaves and stems are harvested and baled, that bale of hay takes lots of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium (NPK) out of the ground.  The Phosphorous and Potassium, for sure, needs to be replaced, since it's gone from the soil.

In a food plotting situation, our deer, rabbits & turkey's come in and eat their fill.  They may also leave some urine and some poop.

Ever wonder why the grass is always so green where your dog tinkles?  Well, he has deposited a concentrated amount, of a form of nitrogen.  His poop has left some phosphorus and potassium.  It's the same with deer, except they leave less than they take, but that's ok.  Phosphorus is what builds big bones and antlers.

What you feed your dirt, goes into your deer.  Inoculant is a cheap additive.  Try to always buy inoculated clover seed as well.  Just makes life easier.


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## Canuck5

............ and one last thing ..... LOL ..... for the most part, each type of legume, takes a different inoculant.


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## amtarn6790

Thanks Canuck, that was very informative and helpful. I found some inoculant @ http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-6683-soybean-inoculant.aspx for $9 + $4 shipping.


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## Canuck5

Looks like the same stuff I used .... only cheaper!!!!!  Perfect!!!!


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## Canuck5

Well, as of this weekend, I got a report that we are down to just one, 1/2 acre plot of Iron & Clay peas and I don't give them long.  Everything else has been eaten to the ground, so I will be replanting them, the end of September.

They didn't make it to bow season, but I plan to plant more acreage next year, so hopefully that will help their longevity.

The cowpea's did their job, however and I am extremely pleased that I was able to provide some great nutrition, at the right time of the year, for the fawns and some antler building.

It probably cost somewhere around $250 for the seed and fertilizer (0-20-20) that I put down, but it likely gave me 5000+ lbs of natural protein, from the 1 5/8 acres planted.  This is just a guess based on some "leaf matter tonnage figures" I found, that cowpeas could generate.   

So it gave me natural browse at a cost of around $.05/lb.  If I were to have used protein pellets, their cost would have been in the $.30/lb or higher range?  

Another great benefit, is that it taught the next crop of fawns where to come for food and browse.


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Well, as of this weekend, I got a report that we are down to just one, 1/2 acre plot of Iron & Clay peas and I don't give them long.  Everything else has been eaten to the ground, so I will be replanting them, the end of September.
> Thats a good thing
> They didn't make it to bow season, but I plan to plant more acreage next year, so hopefully that will help their longevity.
> We never seem to have enough land planted
> The cowpea's did their job, however and I am extremely pleased that I was able to provide some great nutrition, at the right time of the year, for the fawns and some antler buildingYou will be surprised at the extra weight you put on the deer from giving them additional forage during the spring/summer..
> 
> It probably cost somewhere around $250 for the seed and fertilizer (0-20-20) that I put down, but it likely gave me 5000+ lbs of natural protein, from the 1 5/8 acres planted.  This is just a guess based on some "leaf matter tonnage figures" I found, that cowpeas could generate.
> 
> So it gave me natural browse at a cost of around $.05/lb.  If I were to have used protein pellets, their cost would have been in the $.30/lb or higher range?
> Cheap food for the wildlife. with a food plot vs. feeding program.
> Another great benefit, is that it taught the next crop of fawns where to come for food and browse.



Got to train them early to come to the food plots .


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## Canuck5

LOL!!!  Yeah, come to the food plots .... with your head down!


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## wyldwulf

I have to say I have been very lucky. Due to low deer density in the areas of the bean plots I posted earlier, mine have held out very well. Small group of deer making their home in each. The coolest part has been the 2 fawns that barely show above the forage. But maybe even better...and very rare for our property...is the amount of daytime usage these 2 plots see. Even my best clover plots see 95% of their usage at night...


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## Canuck5

Well, the beauty of what you're doing, is increasing the "carrying capacity" of your property.  Deer aren't all that stupid and they will learn, that this is where the buffet is!!!

Good job!  In particular, having them come out in daylight hours!!


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## Triple C

Canuck...I posted pics on your Fall (food for thought) thread about the progress of our I/C peas, soybeans and sunflowers.  Continue to love this thread by the way.  Lots of good reads from contributors.  Our peas and beans did their job this year.  Deer have just hammered them.  However, I would rate the quality of our bean and pea plots this year a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10.  The extreme moisture in the lower ends of our 2 bean/pea fields pretty much drowned out the peas n beans.  They're there mixed in with all of the weeds but the weeds definitely won out.  In the higher elevation of the fields the peas and beans grew very well and continue to put on new growth in spite of heavy browsing.

I posted pics of our sunflower/pea experiment this year earlier on this thread.  I am pleased to report that we will give this experiment a 10.  The peas grew up the stalks and still putting on new growth.  The sunflowers have completely faded and now dropping seed.  Plenty of dove and still providing a good stalk for the peas to grow up.  We planted the edges of our fields in grain sorghum to provide cover coming into the field.  This has turned out incredibly well.  Here's a pic of the peas growing up the sunflower stalks and another pic of our largest field with grain sorghum covering about 20 feet of the field border.


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## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> I posted pics of our sunflower/pea experiment this year earlier on this thread.  I am pleased to report that we will give this experiment a 10.  The peas grew up the stalks and still putting on new growth.  The sunflowers have completely faded and now dropping seed.  Plenty of dove and still providing a good stalk for the peas to grow up.  We planted the edges of our fields in grain sorghum to provide cover coming into the field.  This has turned out incredibly well.  Here's a pic of the peas growing up the sunflower stalks and another pic of our largest field with grain sorghum covering about 20 feet of the field border.



I like that idea and will give it a shot next year!!!  Some members have been asking about a dove shoot and this might fill the bill for both!!!!


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## Canuck5

Well, the remaining 1/2 acre cowpea plot, is still holding on .... how i don't know.  If it remains still actively growing like this by 9/21/13, I think I will just broadcast over top, with 100 lbs/acre of wheat and 10 lbs/acre of a clover mix and see how that does!

The locals seem to be going away satisfied (fat)


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## Pudd82

If you don't mind me askin canuck , what's that tree caged up, if I had to guess it looks like a dunstan chestnut?


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## Canuck5

One of our guys just planted 5 new (different) tree's there this spring.  You may be right!


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## Canuck5

Well, an acre of my iron & clay peas has been mowed down and I will be working it up and scavenging some nitrogen for my wheat/clover/austrian winter peas/radish plot.  They have certainly done well and served their purpose.  Although I will till them up soon, they certainly are trying to put more growth on, it's just that the deer aren't going to let much of that happen.  Lots of weeds are coming up now too, in this plot.


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## Canuck5

There is a small 5/8 acre plot, close to our camp, which may be why it didn't get as much use early on .... but is seeing some good traffic now.  I will just overseed this with some wheat and clovers.   The first heavy frost will kill the I&C peas.

This plot was planted moderately heavy and has kept the weeds down reasonably well.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  Next year I will sew all my plots a little heavier than this year.


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## Canuck5

Well, they have this plot eaten down pretty good.  2 weeks ago, I just broadcast over top, with wheat and clover.  They are still eating every new leaf of the cowpeas and are starting to work on the wheat.  We definitely need rain!!  Come on Karen!!


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## Canuck5

Now, if i could just get them to come out during daylight hours .....


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## Canuck5

Just for what it's worth .... I broadcast wheat, right over the top of the iron & clay cowpeas, without working up the soil.  It worked out not too bad, except the turkeys did/do have a field day in it.  No fertilizer was added, the nitrogen is being provided by the dead iron & clay cowpeas (legumes).


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## Triple C

*Mixing soybeans and I/C peas...*

Is there any downside to planting a 50/50 mix of soybeans and I/C peas?


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## GAGE

Triple C said:


> Is there any downside to planting a 50/50 mix of soybeans and I/C peas?



Unless they are rr soybeans, not that I am aware of. Throw in a little corn, or sorghum to give them something to climb.


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## Canuck5

The beans will (I think) get nipped off first and if they nip them off too close to the ground, they won't grow back.  Other than that, I don't see any problems!


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## Canuck5

I had a 2 parts cowpeas and 1 part soybeans last year, at a rate of about 100 lbs/acre, broadcast.  I think I will be increasing that amount this year, because of how hard they were hit.


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## Triple C

*Inoculant...*



Canuck5 said:


> ............ and one last thing ..... LOL ..... for the most part, each type of legume, takes a different inoculant.



Canuck...Many will be planting beans n peas in about a month.  How bout a short overview of why inoculant is needed and what type for beans n peas?


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## Canuck5

Well, the biggest reason to inoculate is to get free nitrogen for your current crop and for your next crop (with some considerations).  Soybeans, cowpeas, peas, peanuts, lespedza, and clovers are all legumes, and given the right bacteria (inoculant), they can produce nitrogen for themselves, as well as leaving excess nitrogen in the soil, for your next crop.

You can plant all the above legumes, without inoculating them and they will grow, but you will need to add nitrogen for them to do well.

My plan for this spring, is to work the existing arrowleaf and crimson clovers into the ground (while still green), just before I plant my cowpeas/soybeans.  The decaying green manure of the clover will give the cowpeas some nitrogen to start and my plan will be to only add 0-20-20 fertilizer.

The food plots where I planted the (inoculated) cowpeas/soybeans last year, then fall planted wheat and clovers, will still have the active bacteria in the soil from last year.  I won't need to inoculate the cowpeas in those plots this year.  As long as I keep that rotation, I will only need to add 0-20-20 fertilizer, which helps keep costs down.

It makes lot of sense to inoculate or buy inoculated legume seeds.

http://www.groworganic.com/soybean-inoculant.html  soybean type innoculant

http://www.groworganic.com/cowpea-peanut-and-lespedeza-inoculant-4551.html  cowpea type inoculant


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## Canuck5

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/A129/  some added reading


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## Canuck5

and another source http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-6683-soybean-inoculant-og.aspx


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## fellybbob

great thread


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## fellybbob

thanks


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## jmoughton

So since the inoculant and nitrogen has been brought up now can you guys tell me what type of fertilizer I need to add to my mix. I added lime and 10-10-10, and just put the seed down without inoculant. What type of fertilizer do I need to add to give my soybeans, and cowpeas the nitrogen they need.


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## Canuck5

Soybeans and cowpeas can grow without your addition of inoculant, providing that you added a fertilizer with nitrogen in it, to begin with to give them a start.  Your 10-10-10 had nitrogen in it, but you didn't say how many pounds per acre you added.  Are your plants a nice dark green color or pale yellow?  Do you have pictures?

Cowpeas might find some native bacteria, already in your soil that will help them along.  Soybeans probably won't find any and will rely on, to do real well, more nitrogen.

The benefit of inocluating your seed prior to planting, is that these legumes will make their own nitrogen, so you don't need to add any or much and that when they die, there will be some nitrogen left in the soil for the next crop.  Free nitrogen!

When did you plant and how tall are you plants?   How many acres did you plant?  Did you take a soil test before hand and what did it say?

If you planted less than an acre, there's a good chance the deer are going to be in there eating them down to the ground, so you probably don't need to do anymore.  More than 3 acres and you can probably broadcast more over top, before a rain.

Do you have any pictures?


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## GAGE

*Future bow plot after 1 week.*

I planted this mix of ICP, lablab, soybeans, and a little bit of sunflowers and corn to climb last Sunday the 31st.  Fortunately we received 8/10ths of an inch between Sunday evening and Monday, to get things started.


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## jmoughton

Sorry guess I should have gave a little more info. We just planted mine on the 4th. I have three plots about 1/2 acre a piece. We got them soil tested, but we had them tested for peanuts so I don't know how the recommendations would change. We had a PH of 6, and I just put down 2 50lb bags of lime, and one 50lb bag of 10-10-10. I know these plots wont make it all the way to hunting season, but we are going to try to protect them with millo, and irishing springs. Lol. I was just curious since yall were talking about inoculant and nitrogen if there was anything else I needed to do to them now, or wait till they come up and see how they do?


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## Canuck5

I think I would just let them go now and see what you got!  Check on them in a couple of weeks and tell use what you see.  Maybe take a couple pictures if you can.


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## Forest Grump

jmoughton said:


> Sorry guess I should have gave a little more info. We just planted mine on the 4th. I have three plots about 1/2 acre a piece. We got them soil tested, but we had them tested for peanuts so I don't know how the recommendations would change. We had a PH of 6, and I just put down 2 50lb bags of lime, and one 50lb bag of 10-10-10. I know these plots wont make it all the way to hunting season, but we are going to try to protect them with millo, and irishing springs. Lol. I was just curious since yall were talking about inoculant and nitrogen if there was anything else I needed to do to them now, or wait till they come up and see how they do?



Unless your soil test indicated that you did not need any P or K, you'll need more fertilizer. The soybeans will need N too, & it won't hurt the peas. If they recommended such a small amount of lime, it was because you specified peanuts as your crop & they need Ca to promote pegging. (100# is not enough to affect the pH)

Inoculate them next year & they will do much better.


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## Canuck5

*Dry dry dry & weed weeds weeds!*

I don't think we have gotten any rain since June 7th and I think it was only 5/8" then.  Everything is bone dry!

I don't know what this means, but in 2 plots I planted a mix of Iron & Clay cowpeas and Eagle Soybeans, just to try them out.  The other plots I did cowpeas and regular soybeans.  In the other plots, the regular soybeans are long gone but in this pic below, you see the Eagles going pretty strong, nipped on a little but if you look close, the cowpeas have been hit hard.  I don't really know what it means, but just found it interesting.


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## Canuck5

*I found this interesting*

This little cowpea appears to have had 24 leaves bitten off of it and it is still growing.  He was in a small test area that I sprayed with 22 ounces/acre of glyphosate on June 7th.  He's still going strong!  That little tidbit came from a video that Forest Grump posted from Dr. Kroll.  Looked like it does ok!


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## Canuck5

*And one last thing I tried*

I sprayed a chicory plot, that was being overrun with grasses and weeds, so it was either give it a dose of 22 ounces/acre of glyphosate and see if it works or replant in the fall.  Before and after, but not in the same spot.  I think if we'd have had some rain in the last few weeks, the plot would look better, but if I had not have sprayed, I am not sure it would look any different, other than having the grass and weeds knocked down.  Deer are still looking for and eating the chicory.


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## Canuck5

Just a few things to try, but not for the faint of heart!


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## Canuck5

Last year (with lots of rain), I planted 1 5/8 acres at a rate of 100 lbs/acre in a mix.  In 6 weeks, they were knee high and then the deer got in them, but the canopy they provided, helped keep the weeds down.

This year I planted close to 4 acres at a rate of 133 lbs/acre and the deer never gave them a chance.  You can see all my cowpeas, but there is no canopy and therefore the weeds are getting thick.  Next year I will plant at a higher rate still, add more acres and give it a dose of glyphosate by mid May.


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## Forest Grump

Canuck5 said:


> Last year (with lots of rain), I planted 1 5/8 acres at a rate of 100 lbs/acre in a mix.  In 6 weeks, they were knee high and then the deer got in them, but the canopy they provided, helped keep the weeds down.
> 
> This year I planted close to 4 acres at a rate of 133 lbs/acre and the deer never gave them a chance.  You can see all my cowpeas, but there is no canopy and therefore the weeds are getting thick.  Next year I will plant at a higher rate still, add more acres and give it a dose of glyphosate by mid May.



I'm not sure you will get any advantage out of planting a higher rate than 133#/ac. The best solution is to protect them early on. Examples:

Eagle beans, drilled on 7.5" rows, in a fence on 6-1, then again 7-16: only about 1" of rain has fallen on them the entire time, but they have been protected from browse pressure.


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## Forest Grump

The step in posts above are 48" tall. I'm about to let the deer in there, but could keep them out indefinitely, as long as that fence stays hot.

Now let's look at an acre of Eagle beans, drilled about the same time, on the same property, but under no protection, (so the deer are in them every night); just 1 application of glyphosate to reduce the weeds. They are uniformly nipped off about 6-8" tall, having trouble getting big enough to get dark green & nodulating; but still trying & much more developed than a conventional agricultural bean under the same pressure would be:

Following that, a test plot in deep sand, where I loaded one side of the drill with ICP's, the other 1/2 with conventional soybeans. Notice the preferential browsing on the soybeans, vs the peas have been nipped but have a much better canopy: (ignore the nutsedge; that's a work in progress...)


Mostly we are at the mercy of the weather; in dry years, deer will pound the plots harder, yet they struggle to just stay up with the weeds, which often smother them. 

.


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## Canuck5

Great suggestion, great information and very nice pics.  Thanks for letting us see those!  I know that my plan is to just feed the deer in the summer and they are truly doing that, but I could do a little more, like you are, to get "some" of the crop to a taller stage.  I will probably need to do something like that next year.


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