# Trout Limit Change *VOTE*



## robertelee (Dec 28, 2014)

If changes were made to the sea trout limit/length, which option would you support?


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## Southernhoundhunter (Dec 29, 2014)

This thread should get interesting. The last one on this subject got deleted. Only wish on this vote that there was a way to determine which voters live and or fish the Georgia coast 5+ times a year specifically targeting speckled trout. IMO that's where the Georgia DNR survey was somewhat faulty. There were people voting on the subject that didn't have a clue about our fishery. I attended the DNR presentation at Fort Mccallister this past year and out of 50 or so people there, not one wanted a change in regulation EXCEPT to leave the limit the same and be able to keep the first 15 trout caught regardless of size. Me, I'm perfectly content with current regulations. Opinions are like, well ya know, everyone has one.


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## jfish (Dec 29, 2014)

Especially with mr spell check starting it


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## robertelee (Dec 29, 2014)

jfish said:


> Especially with mr spell check starting it


 haha I promise to stay on subject.


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## shrimpinainteasy (Dec 29, 2014)

From a conservation standpoint, I see nothing wrong with someone going out and catching and keeping 15 trout. However, if that same someone has  3 other guys in the boat with him and they all 3 have a limit, that's 60 trout. Depending on the area being fished, I do think that may have an impact. I have seen firsthand what can happen to an area after it becomes overfished.

You never hear anything about it, but I wouldn't be opposed to doing away with the individual limit and moving to a boat limit of let's say 20-30. That's just my two cents though.


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## Uptonongood (Dec 30, 2014)

Many years ago there was debate on both minimum size and bag limits.  Data was reviewed to try and determine age/size at spawning for female spotted sea trout.  The problem was, the data was very flawed.  There was also no data on fecundity of the females. The researchers' motives were true and good, they just didn't see the issues in time and were not open to using the latest in sampling, data interpretation, and modeling.

But the biggest impediment to implementing restrictions on both bag and size for these fish was state politics.  That is the reason size/bag restriction changes move so slowly in Georgia compared to The Carolinas, Florida and Louisiana.  Florida, by the way, has done an incredible job in managing their inshore fisheries, particularly given the huge increase in human population and pressures on habitat by development and by fishing pressure. 

You want to protect Georgia spotted sea trout?  Find out what the minimum length is for a female sea trout to spawn, add one inch to that length and set that as your size limit. Next, emphasis catch and release like is done for largemouth bass, sail fish, marlin and so forth and drop the daily bag to six sea trout.


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## Southernhoundhunter (Dec 30, 2014)

I stated this numerous times the last time this subject was brought up. The DNR surveys indicate that weather patterns have more effect on seatrout populations than fishing does. DNR has said that our fish populations are as good or better than they have been in years. You can put the limit at none but one extreme winter will do more to the fishery than everyone keeping every fish they catch.


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## Uptonongood (Dec 30, 2014)

Southernhoundhunter said:


> I stated this numerous times the last time this subject was brought up. The DNR surveys indicate that weather patterns have more effect on seatrout populations than fishing does. DNR has said that our fish populations are as good or better than they have been in years. You can put the limit at none but one extreme winter will do more to the fishery than everyone keeping every fish they catch.



That was also discussed in meetings at Coastal Resources years ago and no action was taken at the time.  The challenge is managing the populations of sea trout between those severe freezes which don't occur yearly.  It is an interesting statement, though, I need to see if I can find the metrological data over the past twenty years to see what trends might be.  There is evidence of global warming and that may present issues in future trout management planning.

The other issue is what exactly is the movement of spawning age trout throughout the winter months and are they truly impacted by sudden, severe freezes which occur during low tides.


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## Scrapy (Dec 31, 2014)

There is evidence of Global Warming?  Are you trying to get a State job?


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## Southernhoundhunter (Dec 31, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> There is evidence of Global Warming?  Are you trying to get a State job?



Ditto. The liberals don't call it global warming anymore. It's called "climate change." Like it might get warmer, might get colder but they gotta find a way to swindle money because of it.


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## gafshr (Dec 31, 2014)

This a a trout from Texas check their limits.  They catch these on the regular.  You are doing good in Georgia to catch a trout over 18".  Just saying but Id rather have quality than quantity just my preference.


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## Steyr (Dec 31, 2014)

What Jamie said...


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## Steve762us (Dec 31, 2014)

gafshr said:


> This a a trout from Texas check their limits. .



"Spotted Seatrout

Daily Bag:
All waters north of FM 457 in Matagorda County - 10
All waters south of FM 457 - 5 Length in Inches (Minimum - Maximum)15" - 25"

No more than one spotted seatrout over the stated maximum length may be retained per person per day and counts as part of the daily bag and possession limit."


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## seastrike (Jan 1, 2015)

gafshr said:


> This a a trout from Texas check their limits.  They catch these on the regular.  You are doing good in Georgia to catch a trout over 18".  Just saying but Id rather have quality than quantity just my preference.



man that is a pig! even with the "hold out pose" taken into consideration i bet it goes 28 inches long...


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## shrimpinainteasy (Jan 1, 2015)

GA will never have trout like that even if the limit is set at zero. The main reason the trout aren't as big down here is because the current here is so much stronger and the trout are always burning  calories. GA tides can be as much as 9 ft as opposed to Texas and the gulf where the swing is usually less than 18 inches. 

To put this in an anology, who is going to be bigger, someone that sits on a couch all day or someone who is on a treadmill all day.


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## hollandae (Jan 2, 2015)

Why are we making changes???

If the dnr thinks they need to do something they should sit at the ramp and check and measure all the "keepers" everybody has in the cooler, write some tickets, then see if we start seeing bigger fish. 

But, I've actually caught bigger trout this year than I ever have.


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## shrimpinainteasy (Jan 2, 2015)

I second Hollandae on the bigger trout. I have caught and know of people that have caught more trout 3 lbs and larger this year (20 inches is usually dead on 3 lbs) than I have in quite some time. 

I also agree with the DNR needing to do more. However, with the state budget being what it is, I don't see that changing anytime soon.


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## sea trout (Jan 3, 2015)

Leave as is!!!!!!!! Leave as is!!!!!!!!!


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## Deceiver (Jan 6, 2015)

sea trout said:


> Leave as is!!!!!!!! Leave as is!!!!!!!!!



Seems to be 55.74% of the people who have voted on here, at the time of this post, would like to see some kind of change. However this poll means nothing to the powers at be. They have already taken their survey, which wasn't put together very well, and have decided to take no action. So those of you in this camp are getting exactly what you want. Not necessarily what the majority thinks, if you go by what has been stated above. 

I agree we will never have a fishery like the gulf but I do fish in SC because overall quality of fish I catch over there are better. Thats not speculation. The majority of our club tournaments are won by guys fishing in SC.


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## Steve762us (Jan 6, 2015)

Deceiver said:


> Seems to be 55.74% of the people who have voted on here, at the time of this post, would like to see some kind of change...
> 
> .... I do fish in SC because overall quality of fish I catch over there are better. Thats not speculation. The majority of our club tournaments are won by guys fishing in SC.



SC Speckled Trout Limits, "For Informational Purposes Only":

SC Species Regulations for Spotted Seatrout

Saltwater Fishing License required.

Limit: 10 per person per day; 14-inch TL minimum; may be taken only by rod and reel year-round, by gigging March – November; designated State Gamefish: fish caught in South Carolina waters may not be sold.


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## Uptonongood (Jan 6, 2015)

shrimpinainteasy said:


> GA will never have trout like that even if the limit is set at zero. The main reason the trout aren't as big down here is because the current here is so much stronger and the trout are always burning  calories. GA tides can be as much as 9 ft as opposed to Texas and the gulf where the swing is usually less than 18 inches.
> 
> To put this in an anology, who is going to be bigger, someone that sits on a couch all day or someone who is on a treadmill all day.



There is no research to support this.  There may be nutritional differences, genetic differences, or predation differences but too much exercise?  Nope.

I have the opinion that there are much larger trout available, particularly in deeper water, holes, if you will, that folks don't spend enough time fishing.  And big fish desire big food.  There was a deep hole at the old DNR dock in Brunswick (probably silted in now) where the research vessels were moored that held some big trout.  Guys would go out at night and fish live small pinfish and mud minnows and catch some nice trout.  The dock lights also added to the attraction of forage for those big trout.


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## Southernhoundhunter (Jan 6, 2015)

Uptonongood said:


> There is no research to support this.  There may be nutritional differences, genetic differences, or predation differences but too much exercise?  Nope.
> 
> I have the opinion that there are much larger trout available, particularly in deeper water, holes, if you will, that folks don't spend enough time fishing.  And big fish desire big food.  There was a deep hole at the old DNR dock in Brunswick (probably silted in now) where the research vessels were moored that held some big trout.  Guys would go out at night and fish live small pinfish and mud minnows and catch some nice trout.  The dock lights also added to the attraction of forage for those big trout.



Quite the contrary. Every biologist at every fisheries meeting that I've been to supports this fact. One biologist at the last meeting I attended stated that some female trout will completely mature and not break 20 inches. Georgia is not capable of producing the size of trout that are found on the flats of Florida and Texas.


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## Steve762us (Jan 6, 2015)

Interestingly, the states cited for having larger trout than Georgia waters, consistently have larger lower limit sizes, and smaller bag limits than Georgia!


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## Jimmy Lee Armel (Jan 6, 2015)

15 inch minimum 5 per day.  That and 5 spot tails is plenty to eat.


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## sea trout (Jan 6, 2015)

Jimmy Lee Armel said:


> 15 inch minimum 5 per day.  That and 5 spot tails is plenty to eat.



Absolutely 100% Very well said!

I like things the way they are because we live 4 1/2 hours away and only get to the Ga coast these days a few times a year....if we're lucky!
And that's not y'alls problem whatsoever I understand that.
But the way things are.....me n my family and/or me and the guys can go down for 2 or 3 weekends in sept or oct and come home with an outstanding supply of trout!
Those trout usually supply my sons October birthday party and numerous other meals throughout the winter.
So me and my fishing parties are depleting far less trout by bringing home 50ish fish, amoungst all of us, 2 or 3 times a year...than someone who keeps 5 a day 80 days a year.
The way the limits are just really helps us folks who live up in the woods.
Thanks for thinkin bout us.


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## robertelee (Jan 9, 2015)

A lot of great ideas have been voiced and I would like to see a biologist's opinion on the topic. I think several years of conservation in Georgia (10+/-) would do some great things for the fishery. It's interesting that some people believe a redfish limit a guarantee, while not so long ago this was not the case. It just seems that very little investment (10-50 fish per angler) would provide Georgia a better fishery in the years to come.]


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## Steve762us (Jan 9, 2015)

robertelee said:


> A lot of great ideas have been voiced and I would like to see a biologist's opinion on the topic. I think several years of conservation in Georgia (10+/-) would do some great things for the fishery. It's interesting that some people believe a redfish limit a guarantee, while not so long ago this was not the case. It just seems that very little investment (10-50 fish per angler) would provide Georgia a better fishery in the years to come.]



There was a biology-based explanation for DNR's thinking, on raising the lower length limit, in the original document released back in...August? 

I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a significant increase in egg counts generated in 14" females, over 13" females.  That was pretty much the gist of the concept, as I understood it--let females hit 14", get many more eggs/fry/adults down the line--never a case of anything being 'broke', just the idea that it can be improved (with more numbers being birthed).

AFA the red 'slot' concept, (again) as I understand it, that makes more sense for reds, because their heavy breeders are over 24"; the trout seem to ramp up earlier.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Jan 9, 2015)

Steve762us said:


> Interestingly, the states cited for having larger trout than Georgia waters, consistently have larger lower limit sizes, and smaller bag limits than Georgia!



Louisiana has bigger trout, a  12" lower size limit, and a bag limit of 25 per person per day.


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## sea trout (Jan 10, 2015)

Steve762us said:


> There was a biology-based explanation for DNR's thinking, on raising the lower length limit, in the original document released back in...August?
> 
> I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a significant increase in egg counts generated in 14" females, over 13" females.  That was pretty much the gist of the concept, as I understood it--let females hit 14", get many more eggs/fry/adults down the line--never a case of anything being 'broke', just the idea that it can be improved (with more numbers being birthed).
> 
> AFA the red 'slot' concept, (again) as I understand it, that makes more sense for reds, because their heavy breeders are over 24"; the trout seem to ramp up earlier.




Are those trout laying those eggs at 14 inches?
Or even at 15 inches????


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## Steve762us (Jan 10, 2015)

sea trout said:


> Are those trout laying those eggs at 14 inches?
> Or even at 15 inches????



Yup...IIRC (according to the pdf), they start around 12", and females lay several times from spring through fall--but the quantity of eggs produces increases significantly as the females grow in length. In other words, each time a female trout of 13" length 'eggs out', she's dumping a lot more eggs than a 12" female.

Here ya go...ya made me go look it up:

--Georgia specks spawn every 2-7 DAYS...April thru September

--"Most male seatrout and a few females are capable of spawning by their first birthday, which usually corresponds to a length of 9 to 10 inches. However, the majority of female seatrout do not engage in spawning until they are older, around 18 months, and larger, at least 12 inches."

---"...researchers found that length rather than age is a reliable predictor of the number of eggs released during each spawning event."  

---"Using the formula produced during this research project, a 14 inch spotted seatrout will produce 20% more eggs during each spawn as compared to a 13 inch fish."


Twenty percent more eggs...per each spawning event...from a 14" female trout, compared to a 13" female...with spawning events every 2-7 days, April-September.

DNR Source Document, here: 

http://coastalgadnr.org/sites/uploa...rout/Seatrout info document 6_23_14_FINAL.pdf

Is this a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', or something...else?


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## sea trout (Jan 11, 2015)

Wow that's wild I never knew those girls laid their eggs at that age


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## Chap (Jan 11, 2015)

If it came down to one or another, I would rather have a healthy, sustainable population that just quantity.  I believe that the former means that eventually you have the latter.


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## Chap (Jan 11, 2015)

sea trout said:


> Wow that's wild I never knew those girls laid their eggs at that age



Many fish reach sexual maturity at what we would consider a very young age.  I have witnessed this through years of keeping both common and rare species of exotic fish, and even fish I caught in the river.  If you want to see it firsthand go buy a pair of convicts at your local pet store.  They'll breed in the bag on the way home, and their spawn will breed extremely quickly.


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## shrimpinainteasy (Jan 12, 2015)

Steve762us said:


> Interestingly, the states cited for having larger trout than Georgia waters, consistently have larger lower limit sizes, and smaller bag limits than Georgia!



Kansas is known for their big deer. They also have a limit of (1) deer per season. So by using this theory above, Georgia should change the limit to (1) deer per season, just like Kansas. Then we will all of a sudden start seeing bigger deer in Georgia.

Different species, but same principle. 
There are far more factors in determining the size of Georgia's trout population than the size and bag limit. Until more accurate research and proof is given, we will continue to have this debate with everyone giving their own opinion.


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## Steve762us (Jan 12, 2015)

shrimpinainteasy said:


> Kansas is known for their big deer. They also have a limit of (1) deer per season. So by using this theory above, Georgia should change the limit to (1) deer per season, just like Kansas. Then we will all of a sudden start seeing bigger deer in Georgia.
> 
> Different species, but same principle.
> There are far more factors in determining the size of Georgia's trout population than the size and bag limit. Until more accurate research and proof is given, we will continue to have this debate with everyone giving their own opinion.



I wasn't proposing a theory, simply mentioning facts that contradict some of the theories proposed by others.

The research has already been conducted, published, and promptly ignored. Like you said, people will continue  giving their own opinion, regardless of facts...it's an all too common human condition.


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## Southernhoundhunter (Jan 13, 2015)

Steve762us said:


> I wasn't proposing a theory, simply mentioning facts that contradict some of the theories proposed by others.
> 
> The research has already been conducted, published, and promptly ignored. Like you said, people will continue  giving their own opinion, regardless of facts...it's an all too common human condition.



Thank you! I couldn't have said it better!


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## Southernhoundhunter (Jan 13, 2015)

shrimpinainteasy said:


> Kansas is known for their big deer. They also have a limit of (1) deer per season. So by using this theory above, Georgia should change the limit to (1) deer per season, just like Kansas. Then we will all of a sudden start seeing bigger deer in Georgia.
> 
> Different species, but same principle.
> There are far more factors in determining the size of Georgia's trout population than the size and bag limit. Until more accurate research and proof is given, we will continue to have this debate with everyone giving their own opinion.



Meant to quote this. Couldn't have said it better!


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## michaelmiracle (Jan 19, 2015)

gafshr said:


> This a a trout from Texas check their limits.  They catch these on the regular.  You are doing good in Georgia to catch a trout over 18".  Just saying but Id rather have quality than quantity just my preference.


Holy crap, that is a BIG trout!


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## michaelmiracle (Jan 19, 2015)

So did the Finfish Advisory Council make a recommendation to keep the size/creel limits the same? What's the latest news on this?


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## Uptonongood (Jan 19, 2015)

The study link provided show corrected information from previous studies...finally!

So moving the minimum length of 14" means half of the fish retained in this study would be (hopefully) returned to the water to spawn at least one more season.  

The other issue is the effort expended in pursuit of sea trout.  How has effort increased/decreased over the past 30 years?

I also am curious about genetic variations in sea trout populations, especially comparing those along the south Atlantic and those on the Gulf coast.


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