# Rattlesnake myth



## BPR (Apr 13, 2008)

So this past weekend, I was told that a rattlesnake can have babies come out of its mouth after it is dead.  

I seriously doubt it, but couldn't find anything about it on Google, so I'm looking for some help here.


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## THREEJAYS (Apr 14, 2008)

I really don't know


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## daisy102998 (Apr 14, 2008)

If I remeber my zoology correctly, it is not the mouth but hte other end.  rattlesnakes carry their eggs internall and do not lay them.  The death convulsions cause them to expell the young.


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## huntfish (Apr 14, 2008)

BPR said:


> So this past weekend, I was told that a rattlesnake can have babies come out of its mouth after it is dead.
> 
> I seriously doubt it, but couldn't find anything about it on Google, so I'm looking for some help here.



Obviously one who did not pay attention in science class.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

The babies do not come out of the rattlesnake's mouth. As mentioned above, rattlesnakes are ovoviviparous...they essentially lay eggs that are ready to hatch, but instead of an actual shell the baby is covered with a membrane. Most other snakes are oviparous, meaning they lay eggs that need to incubate for a period of time externally before they hatch. 

Nearly all pit vipers, such as rattlesnakes, copperheads, and cottonmouths are ovovivparous, except for Bushmasters (_Lachesis ssp._). It has been widely believed that the mother rattlesnake simply crawls away and leaves the neonates behind to fend for themselves as soon as they are "born", but there is some recent research that shows that some species of rattlesnakes may actually exhibit some rudimentary maternal instincts by remaining with the neonates until the first shed (about 10 days). I have, on two occasions, personally found adult female timber rattlesnakes accompanied by her neonates several days after partition, and in one case all of the neonates had completed the first shed indicating that they were at least 10 days old.

It is important to note that the neonate rattlesnakes are fully venomous and fully armed with fully functioning fangs at birth and are immediately capable of inflicting a dangerous bite....and, in fact, are less likely to have the control to deliver a "dry" bite, meaning they will always envenomate when they bite. Adults do not always inject venom with a defensive bite.


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## SGADawg (Apr 14, 2008)

I have heard, years ago, of this.  The explanation I was given was that if faced with danger, the young will be scooped up into the adult snake's mouth, possibly even swallowed, in a protective reflex.  Then, if the adult is killed or escapes danger, the young will crawl back out.

I have no idea if this is true or not.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

SGADawg said:


> I have heard, years ago, of this.  The explanation I was given was that if faced with danger, the young will be scooped up into the adult snake's mouth, possibly even swallowed, in a protective reflex.  Then, if the adult is killed or escapes danger, the young will crawl back out.
> 
> I have no idea if this is true or not.




Nope. It's another old wive's tale. Snakes do not swallow their young to protect them. Some crocodilian species will allow young to go into their mouth to escape threat of a predator, but that behavior has not been observed in any snake species.


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

huntfish said:


> Obviously one who did not pay attention in science class.



We aren't talking about giving birth out of the mouth.


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> Nope. It's another old wive's tale. Snakes do not swallow their young to protect them. Some crocodilian species will allow young to go into their mouth to escape threat of a predator, but that behavior has not been observed in any snake species.



Thanks germag for the information.  I knew I had seen it with crocidiles and had heard catfish do it as well.  

Of course the story was told as that someone they knew had seen it happen.  I suspect that it might just be that the babies happen to be with the snake at the time it was killed.  Maybe the babies are even under the snake and it looks like they come from the mouth.


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

While trying to search on Google I ran across this story.  A man in Texas was charged with selling bottles of vodka with baby rattlesnakes in them.  

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddl...0080327?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

Yeah, there's a TON of old wive's tales, myths and urban (or suburban) legends about snakes...some examples:

1. Snakes rolling up into a hoop and rolling down a hill like a hula-hoop.

2. Snakes stinging people to death with their tails.

3. Snakes drinking milk from cows.

4. Water skiers falling into a "nest" of cottomouths and being bitten hundres of times.

5. A kid digging worms accidentally digs up a "nest" of baby rattlesnakes and is bitten to death.

6. Blacksnakes serving as "pilots" for rattlesnakes.

7. Popular internet pictures of "11 foot long 68 lb" timber rattlers.

The list goes on and on.......


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

BPR said:


> While trying to search on Google I ran across this story.  A man in Texas was charged with selling bottles of vodka with baby rattlesnakes in them.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/oddl...0080327?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews



Yeah, I've seen things like that in several places in Asia. A good example of that is Japanese Mamushi Whiskey. In VietNam and other parts of Southeast Asia drinking snake blood (usually cobra) in liquor and/or squeezing the snake's gall bladder into a shot of liquor and drinking it is supposed to bring virility and good health.


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## dawg2 (Apr 14, 2008)

SGADawg said:


> I have heard, years ago, of this.  The explanation I was given was that if faced with danger, the young will be scooped up into the adult snake's mouth, possibly even swallowed, in a protective reflex.  Then, if the adult is killed or escapes danger, the young will crawl back out.
> 
> I have no idea if this is true or not.



Nope...


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## dawg2 (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> Yeah, there's a TON of old wive's tales, myths and urban (or suburban) legends about snakes...some examples:
> 
> 1. Snakes rolling up into a hoop and rolling down a hill like a hula-hoop.
> 
> ...



I will say that with regards to #2, some snakes have a sharp point at the tip of their tail (not a stinger or harmful) and when you pick them up, they will jab you with it as a defense to get you to let them go.  Grey rat snakes like to do that.


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## huntfish (Apr 14, 2008)

BPR said:


> We aren't talking about giving birth out of the mouth.



Statement was meant to utilize what you learned in science and then utilizing that grey matter between your ears to determine the validity of the statement.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I will say that with regards to #2, some snakes have a sharp point at the tip of their tail (not a stinger or harmful) and when you pick them up, they will jab you with it as a defense to get you to let them go.  Grey rat snakes like to do that.




I've never seen a rat snake do that...been bitten by plenty of them, but never had one of the literally thousands that I've handled in my life probe me with their tail....at least not that I noticed. I have had plenty of mud snakes (_Farancia abacura ssp._) do that, though. In fact, the mud snake is the one that gave rise to myth# 1 as well as myth#2 in my post.


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## shaggybill (Apr 14, 2008)

Germag, are you a herpetologist, or one on at least an amateur level?  You're using words and phrases that I usually only here from fellow herp enthusiasts.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

shaggybill said:


> Germag, are you a herpetologist, or one on at least an amateur level?  You're using words and phrases that I usually only here from fellow herp enthusiasts.



I am a herpetologist.


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## Toliver (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> Yeah, there's a TON of old wive's tales, myths and urban (or suburban) legends about snakes...some examples:
> 
> 1. Snakes rolling up into a hoop and rolling down a hill like a hula-hoop.
> 
> ...



#1 is part of a Pecos Bill story.   

I want to hear more about #6 though.     How does this story go?


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

huntfish said:


> Statement was meant to utilize what you learned in science and then utilizing that grey matter between your ears to determine the validity of the statement.



There are plenty of scenarios where snakes could be in the mouth.  I should have been more clear in my original post that I did not think that they were giving birth to the snakes from their mouths.  We are talking about them going in the same way that they came out.

Do you feel better now?  Now maybe you can move onto a thread where you can actually contribute.


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> Yeah, there's a TON of old wive's tales, myths and urban (or suburban) legends about snakes...some examples:
> 
> 1. Snakes rolling up into a hoop and rolling down a hill like a hula-hoop.
> 
> ...



I have one more.  If you put a snake in a 5 gallon bucket filled with water and cover the top so that it can't get out, will it absorb/drink any water over night?

This one was told as a way to win the local rattlesnake round up with the heaviest snake.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

Yes, it will absorb some water through it's skin (the interstital skin)....just as you would if you were kept in a barrel of water overnight. It may drink some too, if it's thirsty.

That's actually a common technique for rehydrating a dehydrated animal in captivity.

I'm not sure it would absorb enough water like that to make a drastic difference in it's weight.


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## germag (Apr 14, 2008)

Toliver said:


> #1 is part of a Pecos Bill story.
> 
> I want to hear more about #6 though.     How does this story go?




Yeah, it's a kind of obscure one, I think originating in the Appalachians with Black Rat Snakes. It has to do with the Black Snake (sometimes Black Racers) serving as sort of a guide for rattlesnakes....kind of walking (crawling?) point for them I guess. It sort of reminds me of the idea that I've heard frequently that a doe will perform the same sort of service for a buck...acting as a "front door guard" for him....and will actually consciously risk her life by walking out into an opening first to see if it's safe for the buck to come out. 

Another one is that a rattlesnake won't cross a hemp rope. Also quite false.


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## TANMAN (Apr 14, 2008)

daisy102998 said:


> The death convulsions cause them to expell the young.



It wasn't the death convulsions that expelled the babies!  It was a 200 lb man, stomping the crap out of her while screaming like a girl!


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## Toliver (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> Another one is that a rattlesnake won't cross a hemp rope. Also quite false.



My sister's neighbor put an electric wire about 4 or 5 inches off the ground all the way around his property to keep snakes out.   I almost busted a gut trying not to laugh at him.


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## BPR (Apr 14, 2008)

Toliver said:


> My sister's neighbor put an electric wire about 4 or 5 inches off the ground all the way around his property to keep snakes out.   I almost busted a gut trying not to laugh at him.



Must have been expecting some big snakes.


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## bowbuck (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> The babies do not come out of the rattlesnake's mouth. As mentioned above, rattlesnakes are ovoviviparous...they essentially lay eggs that are ready to hatch, but instead of an actual shell the baby is covered with a membrane. Most other snakes are oviparous, meaning they lay eggs that need to incubate for a period of time externally before they hatch.
> 
> Nearly all pit vipers, such as rattlesnakes, copperheads, and cottonmouths are ovovivparous, except for Bushmasters (_Lachesis ssp._). It has been widely believed that the mother rattlesnake simply crawls away and leaves the neonates behind to fend for themselves as soon as they are "born", but there is some recent research that shows that some species of rattlesnakes may actually exhibit some rudimentary maternal instincts by remaining with the neonates until the first shed (about 10 days). I have, on two occasions, personally found adult female timber rattlesnakes accompanied by her neonates several days after partition, and in one case all of the neonates had completed the first shed indicating that they were at least 10 days old.
> 
> It is important to note that the neonate rattlesnakes are fully venomous and fully armed with fully functioning fangs at birth and are immediately capable of inflicting a dangerous bite....and, in fact, are less likely to have the control to deliver a "dry" bite, meaning they will always envenomate when they bite. Adults do not always inject venom with a defensive bite.





AH, the joys of an education.  Well done.


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Apr 14, 2008)

I've heard several tales of guys killing a rattler and throwing it in the cooler or the bed of the truck and returning to find a bunch of baby rattlers crawling around.  That's why I skin em where they die.

I know a guy who killed a rattler, tied it up in a plastic bag, took it home and froze it.  When he took it out a few weeks later to skin it, he found 22 babies inside the snake that appeared fully developed.  Why they didn't emerge inside the bag I don't know.


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## dawg2 (Apr 14, 2008)

germag said:


> I've never seen a rat snake do that...been bitten by plenty of them, but never had one of the literally thousands that I've handled in my life probe me with their tail....at least not that I noticed. I have had plenty of mud snakes (_Farancia abacura ssp._) do that, though. In fact, the mud snake is the one that gave rise to myth# 1 as well as myth#2 in my post.



I have had several grey rats do it to me.  In fact, I caught one last summer coming into my garage about 6' long' and it started stabbing me with its tail.  I showed the kids and they thought it was funny.  The funniest thing was I started to tell a guy who caught one years ago and he blew me off so I shutup and it poked his forearm...the snake bit him in the arm after he let go

Check it out, its there.

Mud snakes will really poke you, but you better not let it loose because they'll bite you as well.

QUOTE:
Other common nicknames for this species are "horned snake" and "stinging snake." These names are due to the misunderstanding that Mud Snakes can sting with their pointy tails. A Mudsnake may push its tail against a person's hand when it is caught but they can not sting and the tail is not sharp enough to break the skin. 

http://www.amphibiansandreptiles.com/herps/snakes/Far_aba.html


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## fishbum2000 (Apr 16, 2008)

germag said:


> Yeah, there's a TON of old wive's tales, myths and urban (or suburban) legends about snakes...some examples:
> 
> .
> 
> ...



not a timber but possibaly an eastern diamond back


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## GAnaturalist (Apr 16, 2008)

I have personally seen a timber rattler skin in a shop window, in down town Boone, North Carolina that was at least 9ft. It is probably still there. I would not have believed it myself, but there it was. Yes, it could have been "stretched" a little, but there was a original pic when it was killed, probably in the 30's by the look of the pic. 

Audubon claims that the record C. horridus is 74 1/2 inches, and I have also noticed that is all over the internet too, but that is just not the case. So I do not really believe everything I read in a book. I believe what I see.


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## GA DAWG (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm proud I read all this..Now after cutting their heads off.I'll burn the body to get the little ones to!!!!!!


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## Killdee (Apr 19, 2008)

This pic has been around a while, measurements sound outlandish but a huge snake anyway. I killed a large water snake when I was about 14 at a pay lake and it had 29 baby snakes in it when I skinned it a couple of hours later.


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## knifemaker (Apr 19, 2008)

Dead Eye Eddy said:


> I've heard several tales of guys killing a rattler and throwing it in the cooler or the bed of the truck and returning to find a bunch of baby rattlers crawling around.  That's why I skin em where they die.
> 
> I know a guy who killed a rattler, tied it up in a plastic bag, took it home and froze it.  When he took it out a few weeks later to skin it, he found 22 babies inside the snake that appeared fully developed.  Why they didn't emerge inside the bag I don't know.



Yep, seen it many times. You gotta watch them rattlesnakes when you beat em with a stick, they'll spew them little ones out all over you and you'll be bit several times afore you know it.


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## Handgunner (Apr 19, 2008)

Killdee said:


> This pic has been around a while, measurements sound outlandish but a huge snake anyway. I killed a large water snake when I was about 14 at a pay lake and it had 29 baby snakes in it when I skinned it a couple of hours later.


Yep, big snake, but the numbers look to be a little askew...


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## NOYDB (Apr 20, 2008)

"Hoop Snakes" aren't real?   Nooooooo

Did you check Snopes?


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