# How nice of a house should a Preacher own?



## Big Foot (Mar 13, 2016)

How nice of a house should a Preacher own?

This question came up as someone said recently he didn't dig the fact the Preacher lived on a Golf course.  

I say none of my bidness, and would want my Preacher successful and not for me to decide.   My answer to said person was "should they live in a box".


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## Robert28 (Mar 13, 2016)

My church owns a 3 bed/ 2 bath house that the preacher and his family live in. I think it's part of his pay. He also drives a 2006 Carolla so I know he's not getting rich off of us.lol


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## ambush80 (Mar 13, 2016)

New Living Translation
"And he will answer, 'I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'

Matthew 25:45

Seems to me Jesus is concerned about the least of his brothers and sisters.  What was Jesus' house like?  I think that should be a preacher's model, indeed any Christian's.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 13, 2016)

The ministry is a tough job, and 95% of ministers are vastly underpaid.  I'm not sure about the house, but if he has a private jet and drives a Bentley, something's askew.


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## Robert28 (Mar 13, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> New Living Translation
> "And he will answer, 'I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'
> 
> Matthew 25:45
> ...



Good luck getting it to pass building codes.  Ain't government great?


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## rospaw (Mar 13, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> How nice of a house should a Preacher own?
> 
> This question came up as someone said recently he didn't dig the fact the Preacher lived on a Golf course.
> 
> I say none of my bidness, and would want my Preacher successful and not for me to decide.   My answer to said person was "should they live in a box".



I think they should live in a modest home for the area the church is in. That is as long as it is able to be supported by the church.


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## ClemsonRangers (Mar 13, 2016)

whatever they can afford, put the tax collector in the box


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## kmckinnie (Mar 13, 2016)

Where did Jesus live. 

Well a lot depend on what denomination said preacher is from.  If it is In The budget & he brings in new members to the church from said golf course all is good. All churches are a Business now. That church bus cost money and the preacher and staff make it possible. U may need to give more to make the budget ends meet.
The answer may be in prayers.


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## NE GA Pappy (Mar 13, 2016)

why should he live in a modest home?

so he won't appear overpaid?  Maybe you go by the reasoning, God keeps him humble, and the members will keep him poor???


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## kmckinnie (Mar 13, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> why should he live in a modest home?
> 
> so he won't appear overpaid?  Maybe you go by the reasoning, God keeps him humble, and the members will keep him poor???



Amen brother pappy.


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## Jeff C. (Mar 13, 2016)

Here is a letter submitted by my Uncle, Rev. Jacob Lackey, with a little history of his career and how/where all he lived back in the day as a preacher. 

His reference at the end of Hubert and Lois Price were my Grandparents. Myrtle was my Mom's (Callie) older sister.


Uncle Jacob took me fishing often as a very young kid. I'll always appreciated that, he loved to fish and didn't mind dragging me along.


Rev. Jacob Lackey
Inman Pastor 1945
Submitted by Rev. Jacob Lackey, Soperton, GA
 Submitted by Sara Jane Overstreet

In 1945, I finished Candler Theology School at Emory University. It was around the first of July, that The Rev. Paul Turner came to Theology School looking for Preachers. He was the D.S. [District Superintendent] of the Griffin District. I was from S.C. in the Rock Hill District. I did not know if I was going back there to serve, but here was a chance that I felt that God was calling me to follow His lead. Rev. Turner asked me if I would go to Inman Charge and serve it. There were four churches on the charge, Inman, Brooks, New Hope and Union Chapel. The salary was a little over $900.00 a year.

The Parsonage was rented out so I had nowhere to live. Mr. John Burch [Harp] met me at the train station in Jonesboro, Ga. He took my trunk and things to his house. I had no car or way of travel, so I started going to each community on Monday and staying all week with some member of the Church I was to preach at the next Sunday. I walked for miles in the country to people’s homes. Whatever they were busy with, I stopped and helped them as a visit and went on to another home.

Revivals were planned before I came to the charge. They had planned at Brooks to have Rev. Kelly to preach. It was indeed a good meeting. I led the singing at these revivals. I believe I preached myself at Inman, but the others I do not remember. The Union Chapel church was in great need of repair. The windows were all out of the Church. I had to put my hand over a lamp at night to keep the wind from blowing it out. We began to raise money to build a new church.

I was asked to teach School at Fayetteville High School, the eighth and ninth grades. I went on the school bus each day. Don Harp was a small child when I went to his home to spend the night. I was playing with him and he tore my shirt. Gary Parrish was also a small boy. Mr. Jim Minter was a teen-ager. I taught school three months and decided to quit. They finally got me two rooms in the Parsonage, so I had a place to stay.

The Price Family was active in the Inman Church. Hubert and Lois Price were good to me. They have four children, Myrtle, Hubert, Callie, and Wilbur. Hubert Price told me to come to his house any time and eat with him. One evening he asked me to go with him to meet the bus from Atlanta, Ga. He was to pick up Myrtle who worked at South Side Bank. Well he did not get a word in much as he talked. Myrtle and I fell in love and Married Nov. 19, 1945.

From the Marriage, we had two children, Sammy and Bonnie. I have four grandchildren and two great grandchildren.
Mr. Price went with me to get a car. Myrtle had to teach me to drive. We went to the South Ga. Conference to a 6 point Charge near Darian, Ga. Rev. G. Ross Freeman had 9 churches. I took 6 of them. They rented us a one room cabin for 5 months and later a four room house.
From South New Port we moved to Waresboro, Ga. where I dug a well. We had no water. I taught school at Bickley. From Waresboro we moved to Mitchell, Ga., then to Garfield, then to Whigham, Ga., Ellaville, Fort Gaines, Irwinton, Centery in Dublin, Ga., Whitfield in Savannah, Guyton, Brooks in Waycross, Alamo, and Piney Mount near Sandersville, Ga. I retired June 1985.
On Nov. 19, 1996 I lost the best friend in this world, Myrtle, with cancer.


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## obligated (Mar 13, 2016)

I did some work for a preacher in Elligay.He complained how the "goats"in the congregation didnt want to pay for his new floor.The guy had a new truck,Ranger bass boat and a house  about 4000 sq ft.He spent his day on the computer playing cards and viewing some adult sites.Where do I sign up for preacher school?He was involved in some scams with a local bankster also.
If he had a real job like say...carpenter then its his business what he lives in.If he sponges off working people then a tent might be too much.


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## Havana Dude (Mar 13, 2016)

Ya preacher is a man just like the rest of us. He works just like you and I. Does anyone tell you what kind of house you should live in? Why should we dictate where the preacher lives? Mine lives on a golf course, and I could care less. It's none of my business.


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## kmckinnie (Mar 13, 2016)

Holy cow.


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## kmckinnie (Mar 13, 2016)

Havana Dude said:


> Ya preacher is a man just like the rest of us. He works just like you and I. Does anyone tell you what kind of house you should live in? Why should we dictate where the preacher lives? Mine lives on a golf course, and I could care less. It's none of my business.



The nine hole in Havana.  it's nice.


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## Jeff C. (Mar 13, 2016)

obligated said:


> I did some work for a preacher in Elligay.He complained how the "goats"in the congregation didnt want to pay for his new floor.The guy had a new truck,Ranger bass boat and a house  about 4000 sq ft.He spent his day on the computer playing cards and viewing some adult sites.Where do I sign up for preacher school?He was involved in some scams with a local bankster also.
> If he had a real job like say...carpenter then its his business what he lives in.If he sponges off working people then a tent might be too much.



Your preacher wasn't a preacher then.


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## kmckinnie (Mar 13, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Your preacher wasn't a preacher then.



Tell them like it is brother Jeff.


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## obligated (Mar 13, 2016)

Jeff C. said:


> Your preacher wasn't a preacher then.



He is a preacher just not one that follows the book he reads out of.Most get their sermons online anyway.To me he was a con artist at best.I just cant picture Jesus that Ive heard about fleecing the flock for his own pleasures.I do seem to remember reading about scribes or pharisees that did this sort of con though.Then the church wonders why people are leaving.


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## NE GA Pappy (Mar 13, 2016)

you will reap what you sow.  

He will get his reward one day


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## NOYDB (Mar 13, 2016)

I don't follow what they say, I watch what they do.

Some of the biggest con artists proclaim their piousness. Just because a con claims to be following the creator, doesn't mean he really is.


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## obligated (Mar 13, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> you will reap what you sow.
> 
> He will get his reward one day



I have the feeling he wont like the prize he gets unless he changes and humbles himself.Im not a religous person but every once in a while it would be nice to meet people that read the book and apply it.


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## NE GA Pappy (Mar 13, 2016)

2 rules

1.  you always reap what you sow

2.  you always reap more than you sow


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## Jeff C. (Mar 13, 2016)

obligated said:


> He is a preacher just not one that follows the book he reads out of.Most get their sermons online anyway.To me he was a con artist at best.I just cant picture Jesus that Ive heard about fleecing the flock for his own pleasures.I do seem to remember reading about scribes or pharisees that did this sort of con though.Then the church wonders why people are leaving.



That was my point, thanks.


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## NE GA Pappy (Mar 13, 2016)

he may not be reading the Book.  Lots of them don't.  They read Dr So and So's book, and teach feel good stuff that people want to hear.


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## gemcgrew (Mar 13, 2016)

Big Foot said:


> How nice of a house should a Preacher own?


A good rule of thumb is no more than a 1000 sq. ft. larger than the deacon's house.


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## lbzdually (Mar 13, 2016)

Our preacher and his wife both work and they have newer cars, not fancy but newer and I don't know what kind of house they live in.  I hope they live in a nicest house they can afford.  In a sermon the other day, he talked about you shouldn't want nice things and he brought up having a Corvette in the driveway.   I guess he was talking about not buying more that just what you need, but if you want to judge people like that, then he should be driving the cheapest used car he can get that gets him from point A to B, not a 2014 Ford.  Myself, I think that if you work your tail off, then you should enjoys the fruits of your labor and no one in the church should look down on you for it.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

How large a house _should_ a churchgoer own? How large a house _should_ and atheist own? An Islamist?


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## drhunter1 (Mar 14, 2016)

I think we should ask Bernie Sanders. He will be glad to give us the exact dimensions.


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## huntersluck (Mar 14, 2016)

I think if the pastor is writing books or has tv deals I think there is nothing wrong with living a lavish lifestyle but the money that the church is donating is not for his benefit or at least should not be top priority. I guess if the church is taking in a ton of money and the church decides  together they want to pay him a high salary then that is up to them.


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## PopPop (Mar 14, 2016)

EverGreen1231 said:


> How large a house _should_ a churchgoer own? How large a house _should_ and atheist own? An Islamist?



how far have we traveled, that we should think it is our concern?


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## MudDucker (Mar 14, 2016)

How is this a political topic?  The only way this could be political is to discuss how these big houses are possible in large part due to favorable tax treatment of preachers and the non-taxability of their parsonage allowance coupled with being able to deduct mortgage interest.  An interesting double dip.


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## PappyHoel (Mar 14, 2016)

Does the preacher have a second job or does the preachers wife work?

They should only be allowed to own a house worth $500k.  I want a detailed itemized list of what they spend money on and I want to tell them what they can spend their disposable income on.  I better not find out they went to a R rated movie.


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## Patriot44 (Mar 14, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> How is this a political topic?  The only way this could be political is to discuss how these big houses are possible in large part due to favorable tax treatment of preachers and the non-taxability of their parsonage allowance coupled with being able to deduct mortgage interest.  An interesting double dip.



Duh, separation of church and state, man.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

It don't matter.  I don't care how much a preacher makes, or how much house he has.  The salary is the business of the congregation, the house is not.  Churches have started hiding salaries now........same principle as gov't jobs (taxpayers business, congregant's business).  If a church determines to pay a dude millions a year, then so be it.

The issue I have is these guys who act like they are sacrificing for their congregation when they are paid very well to do the job.   They are no different than the average fella who gets up and drives to work in the morning.  It's a job.  Just like the local car salesman, banker, phone guy, marketing person, HR position, etc.  Nothing any more special than that.....it just happens to be in a service industry.


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## MudDucker (Mar 14, 2016)

Patriot44 said:


> Duh, separation of church and state, man.



Until you mentioned that, it was not on this table.  Now I have separated this thread from the political section.  Carry on.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

PopPop said:


> how far have we traveled, that we should think it is our concern?



That was my point... although, not too well made.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> It don't matter.  I don't care how much a preacher makes, or how much house he has.  The salary is the business of the congregation, the house is not.  Churches have started hiding salaries now........same principle as gov't jobs (taxpayers business, congregant's business).  If a church determines to pay a dude millions a year, then so be it.
> 
> The issue I have is these guys who act like they are sacrificing for their congregation when they are paid very well to do the job.   They are no different than the average fella who gets up and drives to work in the morning.  It's a job.  Just like the local car salesman, banker, phone guy, marketing person, HR position, etc.  Nothing any more special than that.....it just happens to be in a service industry.



It's much more than "just a job."


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## rjcruiser (Mar 14, 2016)

If you are questioning this about your pastor, you have a lot more to worry about imo.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

EverGreen1231 said:


> It's much more than "just a job."



There are several occupations which can make the same claim.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> There are several occupations which can make the same claim.



Yes, but only one of their claims is backed-up by The Lord. There is no occupation more blessed than that of a preacher.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

EverGreen1231 said:


> Yes, but only one of their claims is backed-up by The Lord. There is no occupation more blessed than that of a preacher.



Im not sure how this fits with my point, and, must admit, I often wonder how "called" a person is when salary is the selling point (not always the case).

Aside from that, "pastor" is not an occupation which is backed up biblically.  The contemporary reflection of the church looks nothing like what the NT church looked like.  Jesus called folks to follow him, folks were selected from congregations to be elders n deacons......nobody was anointed head pastor in the early church.  If we are going to use the Bible in this discussion, let's use the Bible.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Im not sure how this fits with my point, and, must admit, I often wonder how "called" a person is when salary is the selling point (not always the case).
> 
> Aside from that, "pastor" is not an occupation which is backed up biblically.  The contemporary reflection of the church looks nothing like what the NT church looked like.  Jesus called folks to follow him, folks were selected from congregations to be elders n deacons......nobody was anointed head pastor in the early church.  If we are going to use the Bible in this discussion, let's use the Bible.



"He that desireth the office of Bishop desireth a good thing."

The office of the pastor is biblical, see: Thessalonians, both of 'em.

I don't know about other pastors, but my grandfather didn't make a salary when he preached. He believed he was called, just as he believes others shouldn't preach unless they're called. After reading and deliberation, I've come to the same conclusion.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

Before this gets ridiculous, I do want to be very clear that I have no problem with a pastor being paid very well for the service he provides a local congregation.......nor do I have any problem with a person in the position as pastor as long as the church is actually run by a board of elders and not a single person.

Just my interpretation of what the NT says.  I am open to being wrong.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

EverGreen1231 said:


> "He that desireth the office of Bishop desireth a good thing."



Desire is not called.



EverGreen1231 said:


> "The office of the pastor is biblical, see: Thessalonians, both of 'em.



Help me out here......because I am quite certain there is nobody in the NT who looks anything like the contemporary head pastor.  Not even in Thessalonians (I've read em both a bunch, fyi).

The bishop was a regional figure head.  Not a main administrator of a local congregation.




EverGreen1231 said:


> "I don't know about other pastors, but my grandfather didn't make a salary when he preached. He believed he was called, just as he believes others shouldn't preach unless they're called. After reading and deliberation, I've come to the same conclusion.



I think you might be personalizing the point.  I think folks like your grandfather look a lot more like the NT church than much of what we see today.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Before this gets ridiculous, I do want to be very clear that I have no problem with a pastor being paid very well for the service he provides a local congregation.......nor do I have any problem with a person in the position as pastor as long as the church is actually run by a board of elders and not a single person.
> 
> Just my interpretation of what the NT says.  I am open to being wrong.



You're not wrong. That's what the good book says. I (wrongly) interpreted your posts to mean you disagreed with office of pastor whole-hog. 

Forgive me, it was my misunderstanding.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Desire is not called.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't mean to insinuate you hadn't read Thessalonians. My apologies. 

I make no quarrels with the idea that you and I can have different perspectives of scripture. I think the Bible supports something very similar to the local Ind. Baptist church. I could be wrong. It's happened before.

Yeah, I personalize and internalize things much more than would probably be expedient, but it doesn't seem to affect things too adversely. My Grandfather is a good man, as men go.


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## JB0704 (Mar 14, 2016)

Very cool, EG.  I respect men like your Granfather.  Also, I have a brother in the ministry who has spent his whole life in poverty in order to be true to his calling.  So I get all that.  I also understand the calling.  

I do not disagree with a person being the pastor, as long as the church is run by elders.  He can be one of them, I do not see conflict with that either.  The office of "head pastor" could be how the local church organizes itself, and there is nothing to say that is wrong biblically if he is part of, or responsible to, the elders.

That's my view of it all, hope that makes sense.


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## EverGreen1231 (Mar 14, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Very cool, EG.  I respect men like your Granfather.  Also, I have a brother in the ministry who has spent his whole life in poverty in order to be true to his calling.  So I get all that.  I also understand the calling.
> 
> I do not disagree with a person being the pastor, as long as the church is run by elders.  He can be one of them, I do not see conflict with that either.  The office of "head pastor" could be how the local church organizes itself, and there is nothing to say that is wrong biblically if he is part of, or responsible to, the elders.
> 
> That's my view of it all, hope that makes sense.



It makes perfect sense.


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## Israel (Mar 14, 2016)

Overseers, pastors, bishops, elders in leadership...all very much the same...to my understanding and several scriptures. 
But, be that as it may, don't muzzle the ox while he treads out the corn.
As to _plurality_ in leadership, who would deny it? If leaders are not manifest examples of submission to one another in love and the fear of God, from where will others be expected to learn?
That this is my "reasoning" is plain, and it also comes along with the experience of many egregious abuses of power that easily accrue to a one man/one unchecked disposition _over all_.

I must add I have also been among those whose exercise in single leadership has demonstrated a remarkable restraint and humility.
Obviously the only safeguard against excesses (even in plurality) remains only the Lord's guidance and discipline.


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## formula1 (Mar 14, 2016)

*Re:*

Just like me, I think it's between the preacher and God where he lives and how he lives.  He has to answer to God for himself one day, once again, just like me!  I can't speak for the pastor, but I imagine God is most interested as to where the heart is, whom he belongs to,
and how he serves rather than anything else.

The Lord grants authority to men and He removes it.  Blessed be the name of the Lord!


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## gemcgrew (Mar 15, 2016)

I would rather not sit and listen to a man that owns nicer things than I own. It would be a constant reminder of my covetousness.

I would rather not sit and listen to a man that owns things that are not as nice as mine. It would be a constant reminder of my greediness. 

Such a dilemma.


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## jmharris23 (Mar 17, 2016)

Being a pastor myself....this is quite an interesting thread.


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## welderguy (Mar 17, 2016)

Phil.4 helps answer this question.
Paul said first to let your moderation be known unto all men.Then he said I have learned both how to abound and how to suffer need.
His main concern was not for himself but that through the church's giving that "fruit would abound to their account".

Besides this, it has never been sinful to possess riches,but the love of riches is the root of all evil.


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## Milkman (Mar 17, 2016)

jmharris23 said:


> Being a pastor myself....this is quite an interesting thread.



Mark 

I know the denominations most prevalent in Dixie don't do it, but aren't there some denominations that have folks who take vows of poverty and celibacy ?


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## centerpin fan (Mar 17, 2016)

jmharris23 said:


> Being a pastor myself....this is quite an interesting thread.



We'll get a good look at your home when _Real Housewives of Molena_ airs on Bravo.  So, don't try to hide that air-conditioned dog house.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 17, 2016)

centerpin fan said:


> We'll get a good look at your home when _Real Housewives of Molena_ airs on Bravo.  So, don't try to hide that air-conditioned dog house.



I thought it was _Ministers of Molena_, the sequal to Preachers of Atlanta.


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## Israel (Mar 17, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> I would rather not sit and listen to a man that owns nicer things than I own. It would be a constant reminder of my covetousness.
> 
> I would rather not sit and listen to a man that owns things that are not as nice as mine. It would be a constant reminder of my greediness.
> 
> Such a dilemma.


Maybe you could find a man that owns everything...but is content to have only what he is given?


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## gemcgrew (Mar 17, 2016)

Israel said:


> Maybe you could find a man that owns everything...but is content to have only what he is given?


I have. I do not know him as well as he knows me. Lately, he has been pointing my idols out to me, the ones that he owns, the ones that are in the form of a human substitute.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 17, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> I have. I do not know him as well as he knows me. Lately, he has been pointing my idols out to me, the ones that he owns, the ones that are in the form of a human substitute.



Amen!


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## Israel (Mar 18, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> I have. I do not know him as well as he knows me. Lately, he has been pointing my idols out to me, the ones that he owns, the ones that are in the form of a human substitute.


Amen...and man...can he preach! Like he doesn't even love preaching!

Anyway, your comment brought this to mind, it's something I heard a while ago and wrote down as quick as I could. If anyone hears music to go with it...great...I wanna hear it sung.


Well, go grab that box of tissues cause we all have Daddy issues. 
And we don’t like to be told the way things are,
We prefer much to invent them cause the truth we think will bend then
And it’s then we get to feel that Iron bar


The man learns that there is glory 
but the truth of the whole story
 is he doesn’t play the hero of the piece,
He looks more like fool and jester and this truth a long time pesters, 
but it’s there he finds the spirit of release



Now to God he appears strong but to all else all seems wrong,
When found on his knees he’s weeping pools of tears,
And he might hate then to admit it, but it’s there if he don’t quit it,
That his weakness turns to vict’ry over fears…



Now a good Dad will not budge and the truth he will not fudge
When he says son “let me tell you how it is,”
You may much prefer your momma, her arms seem softer and you wanna
See the one who with your whining you can twist…



Now this truth it may seem odd but if you know the truth of God,
You’ll learn that Mother/Father, he’s the same at once, 
He’ll tell you “all you do’s not fine, but I love you cause your mine”
And you needn’t go on acting like a dunce.


Sister Sarah knows no sorrow when from her life we may come borrow
Lessons rich and deep to help us in our quest,
Don’t tell Abram to be spent, on that hand maid in your tent
Cause bitter envies only show that God knew best.


And even Abram had to learn, when his Ishmael Sarah spurned
Was with Hagar put out in the morning dew,
He’ll say Sarah yes I love ya, but there’s one who is above ya
Yes, there’s a God and I have learned that it ain’t you.

And so delight of eyes and heart, when as idol's seen a start
And then hiking up a mount for sacrifice
God has put His finger there, to discover where's your care,
(For obedience is the greater to be now, and not for later)
And joyous man sees God's provision as he complies

So, take all that is your only, quite sure without it you'd be lonely
and go grab a bunch of sticks and grab that knife
and in your heart you'll find an altar, prepared there by the Salter
And he never asks for less than all our life.

And though to others without word this inner hike has now been spurred 
And he holds no tears nor sweat in disregard
For the Seer who sees all with your struggle is enthralled
And then alone you'll never be He's your reward.
(And re-reward)




So go grab your box of tissues cause we all have Daddy issues
And we don’t like to be told the way things are,
We prefer much to invent them cause the truth we think will bend then
And it’s then we get to feel that Iron bar


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## centerpin fan (Mar 18, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> I thought it was _Ministers of Molena_, the sequal to Preachers of Atlanta.



Either way, it's "must see TV"!


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Mar 18, 2016)

I choose churches and pastors based on how well they preach the truth of Scripture.

I may eventually find out how nice a home they live in, but it is not an important consideration.


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## Rich M (Mar 18, 2016)

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Is it bad for a pastor to live on a golf course?  What if someone GAVE him the house?

You-all are judging and setting parameters where they are not yours to set.  

Do you work hard to earn your income?  So does he.  
Can you do what you want with your income?  So can he.

Funny if a pastor is talking about not wanting toys and has some in his driveway.  That would be hypocrisy.

Anyway - stop judging.  God will judge you as you judge others.  Expect a pastor to live on peanuts - you should be living on them too.


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## Big Foot (Mar 18, 2016)

Rich M said:


> Judge not lest ye be judged.
> 
> Is it bad for a pastor to live on a golf course?  What if someone GAVE him the house?
> 
> ...



^^^ this


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## Israel (Mar 19, 2016)

Rich M said:


> Judge not lest ye be judged.
> 
> Is it bad for a pastor to live on a golf course?  What if someone GAVE him the house?
> 
> ...



One man's toys are another mans necessities.
One man's trash...is another man's treasure.
And contentment cannot be manufactured.
But lust can be conquered in a death.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 19, 2016)

A minister should be forced to live in a shoebox in the middle of the road.

Or maybe in a lake.


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## jmharris23 (Mar 21, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> I thought it was _Ministers of Molena_, the sequal to Preachers of Atlanta.





centerpin fan said:


> We'll get a good look at your home when _Real Housewives of Molena_ airs on Bravo.  So, don't try to hide that air-conditioned dog house.




We're in the early stages of filming now....stay tuned!


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## jmharris23 (Mar 21, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Mark
> 
> I know the denominations most prevalent in Dixie don't do it, but aren't there some denominations that have folks who take vows of poverty and celibacy ?



The Catholic church does this yes.....but they don't think of poverty as we might...it's more of a don't let your money overrule your life and share what you have with others vow.


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## RH Clark (Mar 21, 2016)

As nice of a house as he wants and can afford without stealing or lying to get it. It's the same rules that apply to all of us.

IMHO anyone limiting other people to what they think is right is operating only out of greed and envy.


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## M80 (Mar 21, 2016)

As a pastor I have nothing to hide on what I make. The whole church knows and to be honest when they called me we never even said nothing about pay. I work a full time job for the county for fleet maintenance. I've been there for 15 years and been pastoring for the last 4 and a half years.  After they voted me in a member told me "we do pay our pastor and it is $300 a week if that's ok with you". I said whatever the church wanted, I have a burden for the church and it didn't matter to me if they paid me or not. Without me knowing the church got together and gave me a $100 a week raise 1 1/2 years ago. I work a full time job and do my best to be a full time pastor. The lord has blessed at my job to where I can leave just about at any time to be there for members of New Freedom. Oh and I live in a 1700 sq feet house the Lord allowed me to build in 2007. I'm blest.


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## JB0704 (Mar 22, 2016)

mwilliams80 said:


> As a pastor I have nothing to hide on what I make. The whole church knows and to be honest when they called me we never even said nothing about pay. I work a full time job for the county for fleet maintenance. I've been there for 15 years and been pastoring for the last 4 and a half years.  After they voted me in a member told me "we do pay our pastor and it is $300 a week if that's ok with you". I said whatever the church wanted, I have a burden for the church and it didn't matter to me if they paid me or not. Without me knowing the church got together and gave me a $100 a week raise 1 1/2 years ago. I work a full time job and do my best to be a full time pastor. The lord has blessed at my job to where I can leave just about at any time to be there for members of New Freedom. Oh and I live in a 1700 sq feet house the Lord allowed me to build in 2007. I'm blest.



Very cool, MW.


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## JB0704 (Mar 22, 2016)

RH Clark said:


> It's the same rules that apply to all of us.



I agree.  But also think if you are going to compare the job to the rest of us, then the job is no different.   I don't think the pastor can pull the "burden of ministry" card if he is trying to make his job equivalent to the secular world.

Everybody's job is hard.  Everybody works for their paycheck.  Everybody can probably pull out one aspect of what they do and explain why they are a little tougher, smarter, more resilient, and more underpaid, than the next guy.

If we are discussing the job as a ministry, and a calling, I have tons of respect for the guys who do it salary or not.  And the guys who are "called" to missions fields, or poor communities.  And the guys who fill their calling without a need for a title.  

I also respect the corporate pastor who does a good job, and works hard.  However, these dudes who won't work outside 40-50 hours a week, take a 1 month sabbatical each year on top of their 4-5 weeks paid vacation, get paid well, have somebody who filters all their emails, and openly say it is not their job to visit folks in the hospital are no better than any other dude who gets in his car and drives to work in the morning.......to them, it is just a job.

I have no problem with either of them making a ton of money doing it.  But, if we are going to say it's the same as any other job, than we should also view it the same as any other job.  Nobody walks around bragging on how much the HR lady sacrificed to make sure everybody in the office got on the healthcare roles..........same should go for the head pastor who does his actions as a business transaction.


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## RH Clark (Mar 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> I agree.  But also think if you are going to compare the job to the rest of us, then the job is no different.   I don't think the pastor can pull the "burden of ministry" card if he is trying to make his job equivalent to the secular world.
> 
> Everybody's job is hard.  Everybody works for their paycheck.  Everybody can probably pull out one aspect of what they do and explain why they are a little tougher, smarter, more resilient, and more underpaid, than the next guy.
> 
> ...



Well, I didn't mean that a pastors job is the same as any other job, only that his moral obligation to not lie, steal, or cheat is the same as everyone else. There may be pastors who are lazy, overpaid and have cushy jobs but I've never personally met one, nor do I spend any time thinking about who and where they may be. Every pastor I've ever known, and there have been quite a few since I've been involved in ministry only to pastors, have been overworked and underpaid. One of the biggest challenges to rural pastors is to try to juggle working two full time jobs, the ministry and the one which pays his bills. It's really sad because he will never be able to devote the time to study and prayer he needs to carry his congregation higher.


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## JB0704 (Mar 22, 2016)

RH Clark said:


> Well, I didn't mean that a pastors job is the same as any other job, only that his moral obligation to not lie, steal, or cheat is the same as everyone else. There may be pastors who are lazy, overpaid and have cushy jobs but I've never personally met one, nor do I spend any time thinking about who and where they may be. Every pastor I've ever known, and there have been quite a few since I've been involved in ministry only to pastors, have been overworked and underpaid. One of the biggest challenges to rural pastors is to try to juggle working two full time jobs, the ministry and the one which pays his bills. It's really sad because he will never be able to devote the time to study and prayer he needs to carry his congregation higher.



Have you ever ministered to suburban pastors?  There are suburban churches who have full time paid positions to minister to the rest of the staff pastors who do all the things I listed above.  Perspective is everything.  My perspective leads me to believe that to many of them, not all of them, it's just a job.  Having known many myself, being related to many, being married to somebody who was in the ministry, and close personal friends with a few head pastors, I have no quarrels pointing out that *some* of those dudes (people in the ministry) are the most arrogant and whiny bunch of people I have ever encountered.  Again, understanding that, seeing that, and recognizing it for what it is makes me appreciate the good ones so much more.  People like MW, EG's grandfather, my brother and as far as I can tell RonnieT and JimHarris23 have a whole lot more of my respect than they otherwise might get because I have this perspective.


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## M80 (Mar 22, 2016)

RH Clark said:


> Well, I didn't mean that a pastors job is the same as any other job, only that his moral obligation to not lie, steal, or cheat is the same as everyone else. There may be pastors who are lazy, overpaid and have cushy jobs but I've never personally met one, nor do I spend any time thinking about who and where they may be. Every pastor I've ever known, and there have been quite a few since I've been involved in ministry only to pastors, have been overworked and underpaid. One of the biggest challenges to rural pastors is to try to juggle working two full time jobs, the ministry and the one which pays his bills. It's really sad because he will never be able to devote the time to study and prayer he needs to carry his congregation higher.



Amen


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## M80 (Mar 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Have you ever ministered to suburban pastors?  There are suburban churches who have full time paid positions to minister to the rest of the staff pastors who do all the things I listed above.  Perspective is everything.  My perspective leads me to believe that to many of them, not all of them, it's just a job.  Having known many myself, being related to many, being married to somebody who was in the ministry, and close personal friends with a few head pastors, I have no quarrels pointing out that *some* of those dudes (people in the ministry) are the most arrogant and whiny bunch of people I have ever encountered.  Again, understanding that, seeing that, and recognizing it for what it is makes me appreciate the good ones so much more.  People like MW, EG's grandfather, my brother and as far as I can tell RonnieT and JimHarris23 have a whole lot more of my respect than they otherwise might get because I have this perspective.



Amen and bless your heart brother. Appreciate the kind words but still waiting for you to come see me at church


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## JB0704 (Mar 22, 2016)

Dangit, and you are correct, I still need to keep my word on that.


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## RH Clark (Mar 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Have you ever ministered to suburban pastors?  There are suburban churches who have full time paid positions to minister to the rest of the staff pastors who do all the things I listed above.  Perspective is everything.  My perspective leads me to believe that to many of them, not all of them, it's just a job.  Having known many myself, being related to many, being married to somebody who was in the ministry, and close personal friends with a few head pastors, I have no quarrels pointing out that *some* of those dudes (people in the ministry) are the most arrogant and whiny bunch of people I have ever encountered.  Again, understanding that, seeing that, and recognizing it for what it is makes me appreciate the good ones so much more.  People like MW, EG's grandfather, my brother and as far as I can tell RonnieT and JimHarris23 have a whole lot more of my respect than they otherwise might get because I have this perspective.



Brother, there's slackers everywhere. I tend to think however that there may be fewer as pastors than elsewhere. I don't remember exactly but I read statistics a while back and I think, don't hold me to it though, that at least 50% of pastors quit after the first year. It's not because it's an easy high paying cushy job.

I've never been a pastor but I've been paid staff before. My job was to make the pastors job easier. I've worked 70 hours a week before for a $200 a week salary at that job, and I drove an hour one way to get there. I worked that job for 7 years and was making $400 a week when I left. I left because we had a church split and I found out my pastor was paying my salary with his credit card. You get to see a lot from the inside and what I saw was that pastors and staff are mostly underpaid. You may have had a different experience though.


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## Kdad (Apr 14, 2016)

My grandfather was a preacher and also was a businessman. He was 85 when he passed in 1996, so he came from the "old" ways. Many preachers were also businessmen, teachers, carpenters, and anything else you may want to add. He didn't take any monies from the church or congregation for his preaching. I could write a college essay on my grandfather for everything that he did in the name of the Lord but that's not the subject. As a preacher they do so much more for the congregation and community than anyone will ever know, as they are to remain humble and not brag or beat on their chest as to what they have done, God will be the judge of that. As long as they are true to God and the church and people, then the rewards will come to them, in whatever way God sees to reward them.

Preachers, deacons, pastors, ministers, fathers, do not get paid in large amounts for speaking the word of God, as that is the reward in itself. They do not get rich and make millions from church work, not even close, the riches that come from that work are in the form of people they meet, touch with the word of God and on and on. 

The people who believe that a no man should do well for himself, then also believes that all men and women of God shall always remain poor, but they are fools for they are already rich with God's love. There is a much, much deeper connection to what a preacher does than what a fools eye will see, for he is blinded by jealousy and greed of what another man has, or he believes he has.

My grandfather was William P Swartz Jr, Roanoke, Va., Atlanta, Ga., Titusville, Fl.. He was the tool that God spoke through, work through, and lived through. Thanks grandfather, pray you're doing well with JC and the boys.


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