# Obsession Evolution



## GTBHUNTIN (Dec 4, 2013)

Man what can ya not say about the Obsession.  Its just awesome.  It has got to be the best bow on the market hands down.  Obsession keeps putting out great bows.  And the best customer service availabe!

I didnt want to put it down.


----------



## arob542 (Dec 4, 2013)

What about the bow did you like? What 1 single feature about the bow blew you away because it can only be one or there is nothing special about the bow.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 4, 2013)

Does it have any cam lean?


----------



## Bow Only (Dec 4, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> Does it have any cam lean?



Because of the cables not running through the center shot, some degree of cam lean occurs on every bow, it's just the nature of the two track that gives it a bad rap.  You can also make any bow have cam lean, including yoked bows.  Lean can be induced at full draw by torque applied to the riser.


----------



## arob542 (Dec 4, 2013)

I bet that Hoyt has some somewhere during the draw cycle or at idle.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 4, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> Because of the cables not running through the center shot, some degree of cam lean occurs on every bow, it's just the nature of the two track that gives it a bad rap.  You can also make any bow have cam lean, including yoked bows.  Lean can be induced at full draw by torque applied to the riser.



Come on dude, that's why I left a smilie.  

Two tracks do get a bad rap, AND cam lean gets a bad rap.  I don't own a bow that doesn't have some cam lean.  But.........two tracks do have more than most.


----------



## steeleshark2 (Dec 4, 2013)

GTBHUNTIN said:


> Man what can ya not say about the Obsession.  Its just awesome.  It has got to be the best bow on the market hands down.  Obsession keeps putting out great bows.  And the best customer service availabe!
> 
> I didnt want to put it down.



I agree! That is why I have an Evolution coming in.


----------



## Ihunt (Dec 4, 2013)

I don't know about cam lean or the other "professional" words to use to brag on or knock a bow. I did however shoot the new Obsession last week at Chucks. It pulled good, felt good, and the shot was very dead. I did like the wall on the bow. Don't know if I'll get one this year as I like to find em when they are a year old and a little cheaper.  It is a nice bow though and anyone who is buying a new one should shoot one.


----------



## bowkill7 (Dec 5, 2013)

Truth be known all bows that do not have a yoke system at the top and bottom limb will have cam lean to some extent. There is no way to fully adjust it out. Also the majority of bows have only an upper yoke, with no way to control cam lean on the bottom cam. And even with yokes it corrects cam lean at rest and not through the entire draw cycle. Cam lean can be reduced by indexing your arrow cock feather or fletching out, this allows you to place the cables as close to the arrow fletching as possible without contact, and removes as much angle as possible between the cams which is what causes cam lean.


----------



## Curtis-UGA (Dec 5, 2013)

Never had a dead deer question me on cam lean?


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 5, 2013)

bowkill7 said:


> Truth be known all bows that do not have a yoke system at the top and bottom limb will have cam lean to some extent. There is no way to fully adjust it out. Also the majority of bows have only an upper yoke, with no way to control cam lean on the bottom cam. And even with yokes it corrects cam lean at rest and not through the entire draw cycle. Cam lean can be reduced by indexing your arrow cock feather or fletching out, this allows you to place the cables as close to the arrow fletching as possible without contact, and removes as much angle as possible between the cams which is what causes cam lean.



Its actually the opposite of what you stated, except the part about moving the cables in.  Any bow with a roller guard, or cable slide, will naturally have some cam lean.  If the cables are pulled to the side, the cams will follow.  However on a hybrid sytem with a yoke, there's normally cam lean at brace, which straightens throughout the draw and is mostly gone at full draw.  Right handed bow= At brace the cam is pulled down on the left side.  This is commonly referred to as pre-lean, still cam lean.  During the draw cycle, there's more downward pressure on the right yoke(because its closer to the roller/cable guard), or the right limb tip, which pulls the cam straight at full draw.  This is one reason I prefer the yoke system so much.  It is so easy to control lateral nock movement with the limb tips.  When you don't have that as a tuning choice, you're left with the rest, and the string can drive the back of the arrow only one way.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 5, 2013)

That said, and I'm not a Bowtech shooter, the Overdrive Binary system with yokes top and bottom, is the most tuneable system around in my opinion.  Its complicated, but if you know how to tune it, nothing else as good as it on the market.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 5, 2013)

Curtis-UGA said:


> Never had a dead deer question me on cam lean?



I've never had a dead deer question me on anything.


----------



## bowkill7 (Dec 6, 2013)

Should have added as long as you have an adjustable cable guard rod like on the majority of PSEs. With a roller guard, you have no adjustment.


----------



## finnhunter (Dec 6, 2013)

Are there any Obsession dealers in northern metro Atlanta?


----------



## J Gilbert (Dec 6, 2013)

finnhunter said:


> Are there any Obsession dealers in northern metro Atlanta?



2nd Chance Archery is up 400 just north of Windward, and Archery Learning Center is closer to the east side (off 78 I believe)


----------



## finnhunter (Dec 6, 2013)

J Gilbert said:


> 2nd Chance Archery is up 400 just north of Windward, and Archery Learning Center is closer to the east side (off 78 I believe)



Thanks!


----------



## blazer21 (Dec 6, 2013)

J Gilbert said:


> 2nd Chance Archery is up 400 just north of Windward, and Archery Learning Center is closer to the east side (off 78 I believe)



Jeff will get you set up and shooing bullets! Give him a call! Great guy!


----------



## GTBHUNTIN (Dec 8, 2013)

I am a bow hunter  first and pleasure comp. shooter 2nd.  I self film all my hunts as well.   With everything I have going on in my tree when i am hunting I need a bow that is forgiving, draws smooth,  has a solid back wall, and produce as much energy as possible to send an arrow at my target.  The obsession line is all of that and more.   The more is the confidence in my equipment to produce for me 100% of the time and that is exactly what what these bows provide.   I have shot other 6" bh bows and owned them, and while sitting in the tree I didn't have that confidence I always had that little thought in the back of my mind about making a bad shot.  

Along with all of that great customer service.


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 8, 2013)

Its most important to not have cam  lean at rest which is when the arrow leaves the string. Bows without a yoke also are not hard to tune cam lean out and with an angle cable rod it will reduce cam lean during the draw. Typing in the rain while bow hunting is hard.


----------



## copeland7 (Dec 10, 2013)

We have a Evolution in hand right now that we are shooting some high speed video with and this thing is nasty. I loved my knightmare and then Obsession had to go and do this. Dead in the hand and the bow we got is a 60# and is blazing.


----------



## Tennessee Buck (Dec 23, 2013)

arob542 said:


> What about the bow did you like? What 1 single feature about the bow blew you away because it can only be one or there is nothing special about the bow.


x: 2 I'll stick with my Matthews.


----------



## steeleshark2 (Dec 23, 2013)

The absolute one feature I do like is the adjustable let off and valley.


----------



## Ackool1234 (Dec 23, 2013)

the evolution we just tuned up for a friend is about as close to no cam lean as i've seen with any bow. My hoyt tuned better with lean put in so not all cam lean it bad. The evolution we have is shooting bare shaft bullets out past 20 yards. These bows also have no problem hitting ibo with the right tune up. I will say the evolution is hands down better than my knightmare. Also you can't measure cam lean with you drawing the bow. You have to put it on a draw board so you know the bow is not being torqued. You can draw the bow and look but i would bet 99.9% of people including myself do not have a perfect no torque grip.


----------



## ddd-shooter (Dec 23, 2013)

It never ceases to amaze me how bow manufacturers can put out the "hands down best bow ever" each and every year. 
I don't expect anything different from the companies from a marketing perspective, but ALL bow companies have some people who drink an insane amount of KoolAid. 
Not hating, just pointing out that we rarely read a review that says, "This bow is a small improvement over last year's model."
Which is usually EXACTLY what it is.


----------



## Bow Only (Dec 23, 2013)

ddd-shooter said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how bow manufacturers can put out the "hands down best bow ever" each and every year.
> I don't expect anything different from the companies from a marketing perspective, but ALL bow companies have some people who drink an insane amount of KoolAid.
> Not hating, just pointing out that we rarely read a review that says, "This bow is a small improvement over last year's model."
> Which is usually EXACTLY what it is.


You are correct.   The problem in some people's perspective is that they think a bow is the best bow ever made and the very next year, that company makes a better bow.


----------



## Tank1202 (Dec 24, 2013)

Dont think anybody on here is going to post " I just bought a brand new 2014 brand "x" and its a piece of crap! I sure wish it shot like 1986 PSE. Man that thing was a snail, I could hit the broad side of a barn if it didnt move. AND NO CAM LEAN AT ALL


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 24, 2013)

Ackool1234 said:


> You have to put it on a draw board so you know the bow is not being torqued. You can draw the bow and look but i would bet 99.9% of people including myself do not have a perfect no torque grip.



A draw board is a useful tool, especially on a binary cam bow.  But I also don't think its 100% crucial to tune in/out any cam lean using a draw board.  As you said, 99.9% torque the grip some, or apply pressure to one side as needed, and that influences arrow flight.  IMO, its much more important to tune the bow to the arrow and the shooter.  If that requires yoke tuning, rest moving, cam shimming, then so be it.  The most important thing in archery for any shooter is repeatable results.  As long as you repeat your shot every time, I don't think it matters nearly as much as everyone says how a bow "should" be setup.  Its the end result that matters.


----------



## Ackool1234 (Dec 24, 2013)

i wasn't mean to tune out cam lean. I was saying to use a draw board to measure cam lean. Some cam lean is fine, and some bows shoot better with more or less its up to the bow. I was just stating that most people can't draw the bow and look up and say how much cam lean a certain bow has. For these bows and any binary cam bow it has to be put on a draw board for a full tune. With cam timing and syncing its a must.


----------



## kevincox (Dec 24, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> You are correct.   The problem in some people's perspective is that they think a bow is the best bow ever made and the very next year, that company makes a better bow.



That's why I buy one about every 5 years I get a much improved bow by the time I upgrade


----------



## mrducks1188 (Dec 24, 2013)

Comparing modern bows, seems to me like comparing the prettiest super models.  Really?  I spent $400 on a Martin, and thats with everything i need already on the bow, YES, from a large store... and i have a trusted friend who is a competative shooter that loves how mine shoots and how quiet it is. I used to be a highly competitive golfer in college and beyond.  I know a lot of pwople who change sticks every year or so trying to find the best fit, combo etc...  I swung the same sticks for 12 years and did quite well with them.


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 25, 2013)

We took a bow with a yoke system on both ends checked it at the dealer for cam lean at rest it had none . The dealer and I put it on a draw board and at rest it was fine but as we were half way thru the draw cycle it has lean and at full draw it has over an inch. We also took one with only a yoke on one end the results the same. Most bows shoot with very little or no cam lean thru the last 6 inches before the arrow leaves the bow.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 26, 2013)

SWWTV said:


> The dealer and I put it on a draw board and at rest it was fine but as we were half way thru the draw cycle it has lean and at full draw it has over an inch. .



Can you explain this further?  I'm lost trying to figure out exactly what you did, and what you measured.   What did you measure at full draw to equal an inch?


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 26, 2013)

SWWTV said:


> Its most important to not have cam  lean at rest which is when the arrow leaves the string.



Just for my own curiosity as well, I'd like to know who told you this.  As it goes against every tuner I've ever known and the way most other major manufacturers recommend setting up their bows.  Irregardless of cam system, it has(at least in my knowledge) always been the goal to eliminate cam lean at full draw, to eliminate the string jumping sideways at release.  

Maybe that rain that affected your typing had you thinking backwards that day.


----------



## Tracker1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Some bow manufacturers even put off set cable guard bars on their bows to reduce the impact of the cables on the side of the cam at full draw!


----------



## pasinthrough (Dec 26, 2013)

Tracker1 said:


> Some bow manufacturers even put off set cable guard bars on their bows to reduce the impact of the cables on the side of the cam at full draw!




An off set cable rod is what Obsession uses.  However, PSE and Bowtech both use or have used a type of cable guard that flexes and does about the same thing.  The idea of limiting side load is the same with most cable guard systems like this, no big secret here.

BT uses OD binary, PSE a hybrid.  Both feel the need to use a cable slide to lessen the lateral load at full draw.  

I don't see the point of your statement.


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 26, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> Just for my own curiosity as well, I'd like to know who told you this.  As it goes against every tuner I've ever known and the way most other major manufacturers recommend setting up their bows.  Irregardless of cam system, it has(at least in my knowledge) always been the goal to eliminate cam lean at full draw, to eliminate the string jumping sideways at release.
> 
> Maybe that rain that affected your typing had you thinking backwards that day.


 I hate to disappoint you but no cam at rest and at last several inches as the arrow moves forwarded leaving the bow is most important. I will ask you the same you told you different ?


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 26, 2013)

Yes you do seem a bit lost I used a laser.


----------



## Tracker1 (Dec 26, 2013)

pasinthrough said:


> An off set cable rod is what Obsession uses.  However, PSE and Bowtech both use or have used a type of cable guard that flexes and does about the same thing.  The idea of limiting side load is the same with most cable guard systems like this, no big secret here.
> 
> BT uses OD binary, PSE a hybrid.  Both feel the need to use a cable slide to lessen the lateral load at full draw.
> 
> I don't see the point of your statement.




Post # 20, sentence 1.

There's a reason I spoke directly of the off set cable guard. I was attempting to make my point with a little humor as not to be confrontational or rude.

Thanks though!


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 26, 2013)

SWWTV said:


> I hate to disappoint you but no cam at rest and at last several inches as the arrow moves forwarded leaving the bow is most important. I will ask you the same you told you different ?



I can't think of one person that has ever tuned a bow so it has no cam lean at rest.  It would naturally have cam lean at full draw if you tuned it that way.  The first how ever many milliseconds that string tracks the back of the arrow is most critical.  If it has lean at full draw, then its going sideways.  No if and buts about it.  If you have tuned enough bows, you know what effects leaning the cam one way or another has on lateral nock movement.  If you lean it one way, the nock is going the other way.


----------



## pasinthrough (Dec 26, 2013)

Tracker1 said:


> Post # 20, sentence 1.
> 
> There's a reason I spoke directly of the off set cable guard. I was attempting to make my point with a little humor as not to be confrontational or rude.
> 
> Thanks though!



I didn't mean to come across as either as well, just trying to add to the mix.


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 26, 2013)

Keep tuning the way you are tuning it just goes to show you that you don't know everything. I have tuned hundreds of bows for you info. I am done arguing with you good night.


----------



## Kris87 (Dec 26, 2013)

SWWTV said:


> Keep tuning the way you are tuning it just goes to show you that you don't know everything. I have tuned hundreds of bows for you info. I am done arguing with you good night.



I certainly don't know everything.  I'm just shocked at what I read.


----------



## Tracker1 (Dec 26, 2013)

pasinthrough said:


> I didn't mean to come across as either as well, just trying to add to the mix.


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 26, 2013)

You know this is an Evolution thread we are all off topic, so why don't we talk about this on a cam lean thread go start one so you can tell us everything you think you know about tuning or maybe even start your own tuning class.


----------



## ddd-shooter (Dec 26, 2013)

Wow. 
I can't believe the thread went there. 
I'd like to hear more about how different people tune bows. 
If we can do it without emotions


----------



## SWWTV (Dec 26, 2013)

I agree someone should start a tuning thread we are off topic.


----------

