# anyone make their own tree stand lifeline



## gaswamper

I have 10 ladder stands on two different properties that need the life lines. At forty dollars each I would consider making my own if could I do it and trust them. I have priced some materials but almost seems cheaper just to buy them. I know you can't put a price on safety especially when it comes to keeping my boys safe.


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## deadend

I make them often.  Use rope that has an adequate working load limit and is of a proper construction meaning braided and synthetic.  Most any marine store can supply you with adequate cordage if you cannot find a climbing store nearby.  Tie a running bowline and secure the line higher than your head would be when standing and secure the bottom to the stand a couple of feet above ground level.  Use some 6-8mm cord tied in a loop with a double fisherman's knot so that the loop is about 18-20" long.  Tie a three wrap prusik or klemheist/kreuzklem knot around the lifeline and you're set to climb.


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## watermedic

Yep. I have made 5 or 6 for my kids to use on ladder stands and lock ons with ladders.


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## frankwright

I saw some directions that said to use 1/2" load rated main line and 3/8" line for the prussic knot.

You can definitely make one cheaper than $40 like the store bought ones cost. The more rope by the foot you buy, the cheaper it is sometimes.
I Googled and found lots of places selling by the foot and also on Ebay.


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## deadend

1/2" is overkill.  10mm or 7/16" rope is more than adequate as is 6-8mm prusik cord.  3/8" line is larger than 9mm and not necessary.  West Marine has braided line that will work.


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## Flatone

I bought a whole roll this year and ran safety lines on 12 stands and still have about half left... one is 40 feet up a pine!!  Each stand has it's own prussik knot, but you don't necessarily need that.  

http://www.knotandrope.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=985&idcategory=37


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Flatone said:


> I bought a whole roll this year and ran safety lines on 12 stands and still have about half left... one is 40 feet up a pine!!  Each stand has it's own prussik knot, but you don't necessarily need that.
> 
> http://www.knotandrope.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=985&idcategory=37



Wise move at 7,100 lbs. tensile strength. 

Quality strong materials are more important than size of rope or line.  For example, lots of the 1/2" rope at Home Depot, Lowes, Northern Tool & Equipment, Tractor Supply Co., Walmart, K-mart, etc., have a maximum load strength LESS than 200 lbs.  

Lots of good savings making your own hunting stand lifeline.


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## gaswamper

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what web site I was looking at but they were wanting $2. a foot for 7000 tensile strenght. But it is alot cheaper buying in bulk.


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## chad smith

Are there any videos on YouTube on how to make a lifeline?


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## deadend

chad smith said:


> Are there any videos on YouTube on how to make a lifeline?



There is a diagram and thread someone made a while back that is referenced in this thread.


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## robinsonfam1

animatedknots.com

shows very clearly step by step.

i use lowes rope. 5/8" has 500# limit and 3/8" has over 200#.
cost about $25 to make a 40' rig. make sure you know the strength!
i wrap around tree at top usually 
3x then knot it. couple times at base but thats just to keep me from looking like tarzan if i do fall.


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## Pneumothorax

deadend said:


> There is a diagram and thread someone made a while back that is referenced in this thread.



Here's a good thread on this topic.


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## Woodsman

*Heads up...*

Be careful on what "rope" and "cordage" you use for these safety rijs. 
Static  and dynamic ropes are way different. Fall loading on a static line could kill you. 
A weight load of 176lbs on a 15ft fall can reach higher than 3000lbs of force on your rig.
No, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn... but I did rock climb and do mountaineering for 15 years. Check out this test.

Be safe out there.

http://biomech.me.unr.edu/wang/abstracts/rope_drop.htm


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Good point, but if done properly while hunting, a fall or climbing slip with a safety harness and lifeline is only a few feet at most & more commonly only 1-2 feet.


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## deadend

Woodsman said:


> Be careful on what "rope" and "cordage" you use for these safety rijs.
> Static  and dynamic ropes are way different. Fall loading on a static line could kill you.
> A weight load of 176lbs on a 15ft fall can reach higher than 3000lbs of force on your rig.
> No, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn... but I did rock climb and do mountaineering for 15 years. Check out this test.
> 
> Be safe out there.
> 
> http://biomech.me.unr.edu/wang/abstracts/rope_drop.htm


Anyone who could manage a Fall Factor 1 out of a deer stand has other more serious problems and most likely would've not made it far enough in life to be hunting as breathing and motor vehicle usage would be above their skill level.  There should never be a Fall Factor involved in a deer stand and proper usage of a harness and associated rigging would prevent a dynamic event.


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## j_seph

deadend said:


> Anyone who could manage a Fall Factor 1 out of a deer stand has other more serious problems and most likely would've not made it far enough in life to be hunting as breathing and motor vehicle usage would be above their skill level.  There should never be a Fall Factor involved in a deer stand and proper usage of a harness and associated rigging would prevent a dynamic event.


A fall factor in a deer stand could be a weld breaking and dumping you, a strap on stand breaking. For instance you haven't been to stand in a week and squirrels chewed your ratchet strap. Cables break, chains break, it don't matter how intelligent you are when one of these events happen. I have even had a screw in step break once.


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## deadend

j_seph said:


> A fall factor in a deer stand could be a weld breaking and dumping you, a strap on stand breaking. For instance you haven't been to stand in a week and squirrels chewed your ratchet strap. Cables break, chains break, it don't matter how intelligent you are when one of these events happen. I have even had a screw in step break once.



A "fall factor" as termed here is a measurement used in the climbing world consisting of the length of fall divided by the length of rope.  A 15' fall on 15' or rope is a FF1.  A 30' fall on 15' of rope is a FF2.  You should never have more than a few inches of slack in your lifeline in a deer stand hence the improbability of a FF.  Lead climbing is not a part of tree stand hunting and if properly used even a catastrophic failure of a stand would only result in a relatively static fall with no impact value imparted to the body.


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## j_seph

deadend said:


> A "fall factor" as termed here is a measurement used in the climbing world consisting of the length of fall divided by the length of rope. A 15' fall on 15' or rope is a FF1. A 30' fall on 15' of rope is a FF2. You should never have more than a few inches of slack in your lifeline in a deer stand hence the improbability of a FF. Lead climbing is not a part of tree stand hunting and if properly used even a catastrophic failure of a stand would only result in a relatively static fall with no impact value imparted to the body.


 Ah, I concour, mine is snug tight when I sit down so I'm good


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## Woodsman

Deadend has a good point. If you keep the slack out of your line as you climb and follow proper procedures. You will be fine with the approved rigs. I did not intend to start a debate. Just wanted everyone talking about the cost of these rigs and making there own....  to understand that the rope used is used for safety reasons. And the safety rigs you buy are tested many times. A home build will work if built properly. And that is the key here "built properly".


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## Killdee

Can anyone tell me where to buy rope for this locally at a reasonable price? Or if not a link to some online. I hate to climb my lockons anymore since I cant harness off safely.


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## robinsonfam1

Depending on the lowes by you they may have some.  Basspro or rei is a sure bet but definately costly. Boat supply places should have it also. That's a start I guess. Otherwise you can order pre made or even academy and dicks


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## Killdee

I do remember seeing big spools of 1/2" rope at an army navy store a while back. I need to go back and check the strength and type.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Killdee said:


> Can anyone tell me where to buy rope for this locally at a reasonable price? Or if not a link to some online. I hate to climb my lockons anymore since I cant harness off safely.



The knotandrope web link above by Flatone is $0.71 per foot and I noticed Home Depot has what I remember to be some 5/8" black rope on big spools at $0.61 per foot.  

Local arborists in the yellow pages sell or know where to get good rope for their work on trees.  

Also, there's a local tree climbing for fun group the local Atlanta news usually reports on once per year where I think they show 1-hour demo's on weekends in some Dunwoody parks on huge trees & also follow up with educational classes on this sport.  I thought I remember them selling the equipment including ropes on their web site if I can find it again and/or recommendations of web sites where to purchase the climbing gear & ropes too.  If I can find it, I will post the web link. 

Here it is.  I think this web link below can be helpful:  


http://treeclimbing.com/ 

Try it for yourself! TCI Beginners Climbs are a great way for anyone to experience tree climbing. Whether you're a 5 year old child or an 85 year old "kid at heart," you can do this if you're in good health. TCI routinely hosts these events on the first and third Sundays each month except during winter months, when it's usually too cold to have any fun. Our beginners' climbs are held from 2-5 p.m. in Blackburn Park (3530 Ashford-Dunwoody Rd. at Johnson-Ferry, Atlanta, 30319, maps).  

Tree Climbers International had been around for 27 years.


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## Killdee

I'll try to run by the army navy store and see if I can find the weight limit on that rope. What do yall think is a safe range for this, even if you slipped when your harness was on the low side of a climb, that wouldnt be but 2-3 feet at most? I would rather stay well above the minimun but do we really need 7000# climbing rope for this?


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Killdee said:


> I would rather stay well above the minimun but do we really need 7000# climbing rope for this?



This explanation may help from the web links below:  



http://www.ropeinc.com/ropetensilestrength.html 

*The tensile strength is the load at which a new rope, tested under laboratory conditions, can be expected to break.* Rope strength is the approximate average for new rope tested under ASTM test method D-6268. To estimate the minimum tensile strength of a new rope, reduce the approximate average by 20%. Age, use and the type of termination used, such as knots, will lower tensile strengths significantly. 

Interpretation of Rope Strength 

     One area of misunderstanding that needs to be brought to the surface is the proper interpretation of rope strength, appropriate usage and care. Let's start by defining two important terms: "tensile strength" and "working load". 

Tensile strength is the average strength of new rope under laboratory conditions. This is determined by wrapping the rope around two large diameter capstans and slowly tensioning the line until it breaks. 

The manufacturer's *recommended working load is determined by taking the tensile strength and dividing it by a factor that more accurately reflects the maximum load that should be applied to a given rope to assure a comfortable safety margin and longevity of the line*. Of course that factor varies with the type of fiber and the weaving construction. There are however always exceptions, most notably the fact that rope is susceptible to degradation and damage in numerous ways that are not controllable by the manufacturer. 

     It may surprise you to find out that the* working load for most kinds of rope is between 15% and 25% of the tensile strength*. Now consider the fact that any time you tie a knot in a rope you effectively cut the tensile strength in half. The knot when tensioned cuts the line. While certain kinds of knots damage the line less than others, the 50% loss of tensile strength is a good general rule to live by. Research has shown that the figure 8 knot reduces the tensile strength by approximately 35% instead of 50% for other common knots tested.  


AND 

http://whitewatersolutions.net/RopeBreakingStrengthvsSafeWorkingLoad.aspx 

*Rope Breaking Strength vs. Safe Working Load*

There is a difference between the tensile strength of a rope and its safe working load.  *Tensile strength is the force required to break it*, which can be determined by testing.  However, in the real world of rivers and the outdoors there are *factors that impact or reduce the strength of any rope.  These include; tying a knot in the rope, its age, environmental deterioration (hot and cold), abrasion and rubbing on objects, harmful substances, water and sand/grit, and the rope's previous use and care*.  If a person is on the end of a line we obviously don't want the rope to break.  *To factor in the above variables we use an arbitrary number to reduce the actual load that is placed on the rope.  This number is called the safe working load.  The ratio between the working load and the rope's tensile strength is termed the safety margin.*  If a rope is rated at 5000 lbs tensile and we wanted to *maintain a 10:1 safety margin*, the maximum working load would be 500 lbs.

*Generally, cavers, mountaineers, and other outdoor activity groups accept a safety factor of 10:1*, but the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) recommends a 15:1 safety factor, as does the National Association of Tower Erectors.  That would mean that on the 5000 lb rope the maximum working load would be about 333 lbs.  If a rope held a 200 lb rescuer, plus a 150 lb person being rescued, the total of 350 lbs would exceed the safe working load of 333 lbs by 17 lbs.  While the rope may not break in this instance...well, you get the concept.


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## Killdee

Well the army navy had 1200# rope with a 120# working weight. They did have climbing rope in a pkg 7/16th"
7100# for 119$ but I dont remember if it was for 100 or 150 feet, thats still higher than the link someone provided above.


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## gaswamper

I found some rope in the sportsmans guide for $44.97 for 250'. The tensile strenght is 6525lbs and the safe load is 1305 lbs.I would think should work but would like to hear from the pros. If you go to the sportsmans guide website the item# is K1K-214489


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## Killdee

gaswamper said:


> I found some rope in the sportsmans guide for $44.97 for 250'. The tensile strenght is 6525lbs and the safe load is 1305 lbs.I would think should work but would like to hear from the pros. If you go to the sportsmans guide website the item# is K1K-214489



Sounded good but sold out already.


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## Killdee

Anymore rope leads? I need to get with this.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

After seeing the good deal gaswamper got on white stripped anchor rope at $0.18/FT., looks like we need to be looking at similar rope.  Reminds me of a couple years ago at Walmart I bought some white/gold mixed colored 3/8"x15' dock line or anchor rope on clearance for $5 that was normally $8 which is $0.33/FT. rated at 308 lbs. max working load limit made of premium double braided nylon made by Attwood as I look at the package.  In the table on the back it shows 1/2" dock line rated at 544 lbs & 5/8" rated at 850 lbs.  I was thinking on using dark food coloring or dye to darken the color of the rope.  

It's off-season in the boating industry here after the summer so maybe there's some good clearance deals to be had.  Hope this gives you a few more ideas where to be looking.


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