# Over Killing Georgia's Gobblers



## herb mcclure (Mar 5, 2015)

Bend quite a bit of discussion on another thread about hunter's killing too many of Georgia gobblers, for the good of the hunting area. 

Where I hunt gobblers, they are hard to come by, that is to kill them; mainly because there are not very many gobblers living in the woods there; and there never has been; in my lifetime.

The past five season, I have taken a total of 7 gobblers hunting there. 

However, those 7 gobblers from there; are equivalent to taking17 or more gobblers from some of the hunting leases where lots of you hunt. A matter of prevalence in hunting places; I guess. 

Just wandering if anyone else would share their five year totals. 
herb mcclure


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 5, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> However, those 7 gobblers from there; are equivalent to taking 17 or more gobblers from some of the hunting leases where lots of you hunt



How so?


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## kmckinnie (Mar 5, 2015)

1st I would like to say congrads on all of those birds & being able to remember back 5 years. I guess 8 or 9 but mine where those easy to kill ones off of leases. 
Good luck this year on them birds.


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## rdnckrbby (Mar 5, 2015)

15 birds in the last five years. Don't have trouble finding them down here.


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## Curtis-UGA (Mar 5, 2015)

Huh?


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## Timber1 (Mar 5, 2015)

Just talking about Ga. birds Mr. McClure, I think your going to see a lot of 15's posted.


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## trophyslayer (Mar 5, 2015)

started right at 5 years ago and have killed a total of 3... location location location seems to be the main factor in killing turkeys. That and patience.


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## GameReaper13 (Mar 5, 2015)

12... All north Ga, 2 on a Gilmer co lease,the rest private and WMA


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 5, 2015)

I've killed 8 in GA the past 5 season, and watched 16 die total.


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## chuggins3473 (Mar 5, 2015)

I've killed 9 on our lease in the last 5 years.  My dad has killed at least as many off the lease and only two by other hunters in the last five years.  We have a good place to hunt though.  Around 700 acres mostly planted pines.


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## chuggins3473 (Mar 5, 2015)

My dad lives on 140 acres in lizella and we have a few turkeys on it.  Not enough to hunt there often.  Only one maybe two could be harvested and feel comfortable with it.  Trying to save those for my kids.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 5, 2015)

None that count.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 5, 2015)

trophyslayer said:


> started right at 5 years ago and have killed a total of 3... location location location seems to be the main factor in killing turkeys. That and patience.



You are so right!! If you are hunting in a place that does not have, or produce, many turkeys, you can't expect to kill many turkeys. Lots of folks think just because they see them during deer season they will have a big flock to hunt come spring! Wrong! I've got a place I hunt during the spring that has gobblers on it, but the land owner thinks, from what he see this time of year, that there must be hundreds of turkeys there. Wrong again! Those gobblers disperse to all the surrounding properties.

With all due respect Mr. Herb, I differ on your thoughts about the 7 and 17; however, I do believe low number, high pressure birds, are more rewarding!! But, I look at every bird as a trophy. I took a picture of a bird with my foot on his head, due to someone that regularly does that. I sent that picture to someone, then later regretted it, simply because I thought the king of the woods did not deserve that type of picture!!


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## blong (Mar 5, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> You are so right!! If you are hunting in a place that does not have, or produce, many turkeys, you can't expect to kill many turkeys. Lots of folks think just because they see them during deer season they will have a big flock to hunt come spring! Wrong! I've got a place I hunt during the spring that has gobblers on it, but the land owner thinks, from what he see this time of year, that there must be hundreds of turkeys there. Wrong again! Those gobblers disperse to all the surrounding properties.
> 
> With all due respect Mr. Herb, I differ on your thoughts about the 7 and 17; however, I do believe low number, high pressure birds, are more rewarding!! But, I look at every bird as a trophy. I took a picture of a bird with my foot on his head, due to someone that regularly does that. I sent that picture to someone, then later regretted it, simply because I thought the king of the woods did not deserve that type of picture!!


I agree on the pic, I loathe the pics like that! I also hate, thunderchicken,dirt nap etc..  The wild turkey is a great bird that deserves respect. Okay, sorry for highjacking.


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## hoytman308 (Mar 5, 2015)

I've killed 13 the past 5 seasons.  Some of those seasons took me to the very last day to get it done on tagging out.


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## hoytslanger87 (Mar 5, 2015)

I killed 1 public land bird must be worth 12 or 13 "regular" birds hahaha


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## M Sharpe (Mar 5, 2015)

blong said:


> I agree on the pic, I loathe the pics like that! I also hate, thunderchicken,dirt nap etc..  The wild turkey is a great bird that deserves respect. Okay, sorry for highjacking.



No problem here!! I totally agree!!! It's kinda like disrespecting your elders, those that have walked the walk, with smart comments! Must have been special to someone else too, since they wanted to make him our national bird!!! Sure glad they didn't though!!!!!! We would not be able to hunt them now!!


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## antnye (Mar 5, 2015)

13 in the last 5. 10 of those from mountain WMAs, CNF and leased mountain land. 

3 from Washington county. They came in one sitting a couple years ago.  2 shots. So those three count as one?


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## kmckinnie (Mar 5, 2015)

six kilt 6 in 20ty years, wants to change his name to seven soon.


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## Bucky T (Mar 5, 2015)

antnye said:


> 13 in the last 5. 10 of those from mountain WMAs, CNF and leased mountain land.
> 
> 3 from Washington county. They came in one sitting a couple years ago.  2 shots. So those three count as one?



Interesting??  How do you rate the mountain turkey population?

Hunted the CNF one morning last season.  Heard 2 birds way off and called a nesting hen to me.  Beautiful country and plan on coming back this season.

I've killed 10 birds and called in 3 more for my cousin the last 5yrs.


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## TimConwayTwitty (Mar 5, 2015)

Last 5 years in GA (15)


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## whitetailfreak (Mar 5, 2015)

11 total last 5 years with 9 being from Chattahoochee NF (or WMA's within CNF).


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## Curtis-UGA (Mar 5, 2015)

14 (I believe?!?) in  Georgia in last 5 years. Handful of those off heavily hunted public ground and a few "named" birds. Do I get bonus points? I'm thinking 14= 20??!?


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## Timber1 (Mar 5, 2015)

I do all my over-killing in Tennessee's Cherokee National Forest.
They let you kill 4 up there.


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## cj580guitar (Mar 5, 2015)

4 for me in the last 5 yrs. Not as important for me to limit out like it used to be. Quality over quantity for me I guess.


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## Killdee (Mar 5, 2015)

I can't remember past 3 seasons for sure, 8-10 likely for the last 5. I don't get to worked up about killing a limit, but prefer to hunt the whole season. I tend to let a few walk away some years before I finish mid season. I could fish I guess but fish meat is almost a vegetable.....


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## NorthGaHunter (Mar 5, 2015)

15 over the past 5 years on national forest / WMA's in Union, Towns, Fannin, Gilmer, Dawson, and Stephens counties.  Most birds are usually killed in different locations.  Those that do come from the same area are usually 3 or 4 years apart.  I also may get on birds in areas several years in a row but I'm not always the lucky one to sling him over my shoulder....... but I guess their may be person or two thinking the same thoughts as well!


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## hrstille (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm a little confused by this post. Are you stating that gobbler numbers down so the state limit should be lower? Or that you don't shoot every bird you call in? If you call them in and don't shoot you are just educating him.


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## Hammer Spank (Mar 5, 2015)

Killing birds in the mountains is certainly more of a challenge but I wouldnt say that the chattahoochee national forest is really hurting for turkeys. 

I cant remember the last five years but three last year (two from a NW Ga lease) and one from a Screven county lease.  

I bet you would be surprised Mr Mcclure. Both leases that I hunt get more turkey pressure than any wma that Ive ever hunted.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 5, 2015)

I know I've referenced this before, but here it goes again..... I joined a lease in Walterboro, SC a few years back. When I joined I was told there wasn't but 2 other turkey hunter there. It was 2200 acres. I couldn't make it opening day since the season opens on a specific date, not a particular weekend, like GA. I had no time to scout this property. I arrived the next Friday morning only to be beat there by a couple of earlier than me risers. Next day, I decided I'd get there 15 minutes earlier since I'd seen their tail lights as I was pulling in the previous day. I knew these fellas that where ahead of me.  To my surprise, they got there just a minute or two before me....again! Every weekend there was as 10-12 people hunting this 2200 acres. I was the only one that hunted all day. Jump to next weekend! I'll get there 30 minutes earlier.....Yep, you guessed it! I pulled up to sign in, only to find the ink still hot on the sign in sheet and to see their tail lights rounding the curve. 2200 acres isn't much land for 10-12 people turkey hunting! That was 1 tough year of hunting. Seemed like these guys were looking into a crystal ball to determine what time I'd get there because they beat me every time. No, I never killed a turkey there! The next year found me back down in my old favorite stomping grounds!


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## Gadget (Mar 5, 2015)

Timber1 said:


> I do all my over-killing in Tennessee's Cherokee National Forest.
> They let you kill 4 up there.




Yeah after your limit on chattahoochee NF.....


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## M Sharpe (Mar 5, 2015)

Hammer Spank said:


> Killing birds in the mountains is certainly more of a challenge



How about a big swamp between you and a gobbling bird????

We all have our niche whether it be mountains or big swampy lagoons.


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## trophyslayer (Mar 5, 2015)

Never hunted birds in the mountains but driving through it certainly seems easier to find a place with good visibility to set up. .. round here your lucky to see past 15 yards sitting in the ground in the pine thickets and swamp bottoms


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## trophyslayer (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't know if walking up hill everywhere is worth the trade off though


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## Gadget (Mar 5, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> How about a big swamp between you and a gobbling bird????
> 
> We all have our niche whether it be mountains or big swampy lagoons.



I've been hunting both every year, Big Cypress South Florida, can't find a bigger swamp than that, then head to mountains in April. The drastic change in terrain and the difficulties associated with it is exactly why I do it


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## GA DAWG (Mar 5, 2015)

I just over kill on yalls land. During the week while you are working. I limit myself on my own property.


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## gregg (Mar 5, 2015)

trophyslayer said:


> Never hunted birds in the mountains but driving through it certainly seems easier to find a place with good visibility to set up. .. round here your lucky to see past 15 yards sitting in the ground in the pine thickets and swamp bottoms



I think it is easier to hunt the swamp bottoms myself, by the time they eyeball me they are dead. Up here in the mountains with the leaves off the birds can see forever, and even with camo and no movement a human looks like a flashing light to them.


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## trophyslayer (Mar 5, 2015)

gregg said:


> I think it is easier to hunt the swamp bottoms myself, by the time they eyeball me they are dead. Up here in the mountains with the leaves off the birds can see forever, and even with camo and no movement a human looks like a flashing light to them.



Good point,  that makes sense for sure


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## ryanwhit (Mar 5, 2015)

Let's not pat ourselves on the back too much...implying that we hunters kill enough male turkeys to significantly impact the turkey population region- or statewide is pretty presumptuous.  And in my opinion fairly far fetched (no extra charge for that use of alliteration).  Fact is, for the vast majority of species - and turkeys are included in this majority - it simply doesn't take a large male component of the population to propagate the population.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 5, 2015)

Depends on what folks call swamp bottoms! How about when you set up on one side of a ty-ty bay and the gobbler pitches out the other side. It's waist deep in water and so thick that your only way to him is to trek back 1/2 mile to get around this ty-ty bay.....oh, the other side has been burnt so badly that you can forget about getting to a good set up location. I could hear a king snake crawling in the ashes last year. Or maybe a gobbler pitches down on a 2-5 acre island that is surrounded by more waist deep water; and, there he is content to stay all day. Some of these places are only accessible only by boat (or swamp buggy), or swimming, which I've done.  
Yes, I have hunted some of the most beautiful swamps here and I've hunted some of the ugliest too. I've had to get down and crawl to get into some of them; and, then yes, some of them open up into some beautiful broom straw and gall berry islands you'll ever see with big 100 year old yellow pines and oak trees scattered through out them. It is not my intentions to start an argument about which turkey is the hardest to kill. They are all turkeys...and they have adapted to their environment and so must we as turkey hunters. 

Sorry to high-jack your thread Mr. Herb!! I look forward to learning some more about mountain turkeys hunting with you this spring!


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## trophyslayer (Mar 5, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> Depends on what folks call swamp bottoms! How about when you set up on one side of a ty-ty bay and the gobbler pitches out the other side. It's waist deep in water and so thick that your only way to him is to trek back 1/2 mile to get around this ty-ty bay.....oh, the other side has been burnt so badly that you can forget about getting to a good set up location. I could hear a king snake crawling in the ashes last year. Or maybe a gobbler pitches down on a 2-5 acre island that is surrounded by more waist deep water; and, there he is content to stay all day. Some of these places are only accessible only by boat (or swamp buggy), or swimming, which I've done.
> Yes, I have hunted some of the most beautiful swamps here and I've hunted some of the ugliest too. I've had to get down and crawl to get into some of them; and, then yes, some of them open up into some beautiful broom straw and gall berry islands you'll ever see with big 100 year old yellow pines and oak trees scattered through out them. It is not my intentions to start an argument about which turkey is the hardest to kill. They are all turkeys...and they have adapted to their environment and so must we as turkey hunters.
> 
> Sorry to high-jack your thread Mr. Herb!! I look forward to learning some more about mountain turkeys hunting with you this spring!



Take a look at my avatar... that's waders I'm wearing.  I, like you,  learned about water locked gobblers and figured out how to get em without getting my socks wet


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## herb mcclure (Mar 5, 2015)

*Over Killing GEORGIA gOBBLERS*

In reference to hrstille post. No I am not advocating to lower Georgia's gobbler bag limit. My reasoning for this thread was to learn how other hunters fared  hunting more populated turkey places; than where I hunt. 

I put up my own feeble  kill totals for all to see in hopes others would do so too. 

No I don't let gobblers walk as I did in deer hunting, however sometimes one will fly away without me wanting it too. And I have always shot a young gobbler when there was the chance, because I like fried turkey breast and the young gobblers are best. Yes, they are counted in my seasonal limit, if I get to the limit stage. 

Many of you are good at taking gobblers as I knew you were. There are several of my friends, which hunt in the CNF that take their limit of mountain birds every year. However, being able to do this did not come easy for them, to get where they could do so and they are the types that don't mind putting out now, to accomplish that. 

Lastly, a word about my feeble amount of kills, from someone who has hunted as long as I. I had to learn to hunt around an handicap, which holds me back from being a total turkey man. That being said, don't mean I have not study the wild turkey and learn from it.
herb mcclure


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 5, 2015)

A good friend told me this

"Everyone's own turkey's are always the hardest to kill"


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 5, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> In reference to hrstille post. No I am not advocating to lower Georgia's gobbler bag limit. My reasoning for this thread was to learn how other hunters fared  hunting more populated turkey places; than where I hunt.
> 
> I put up my own feeble  kill totals for all to see in hopes others would do so too.
> 
> ...



I want to know why you think your 7 turkeys equals 17 turkeys elsewhere?


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## UGATurkey (Mar 5, 2015)

I have killed 11 in the past 5 years and called up another 7 for my family members (who I make leave their yelpers in the truck) to shoot.


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## sman (Mar 5, 2015)

I killed 15, is that equal to 5?

Wait about 8 of those came off public land.  So maybe 6.  3 came from swamps on public land so maybe 7.  

Maybe one day...


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## herb mcclure (Mar 5, 2015)

*Over Killing GEORGIA gOBBLERS*

Gut PILE, GOOD QUESTION FROM YOU.BAD STATEMENT FROM ME. 

TELL YOU WHAT, SINCE MY TURKEYS DAYS ARE ABOUT OVER AND I WILL BE TELLING THE WORLD WHERE MY BELOVED GOBBLER WOODS ARE; WHY DON'T YOU GO TO NOONTOOTLA CREEK, FANNIN COUNTY, GEORGIA AND SEE IF YOU CAN LEARN THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION THERE.
herb mcclure


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## antnye (Mar 5, 2015)

Bucky T said:


> Interesting??  How do you rate the mountain turkey population?
> 
> Hunted the CNF one morning last season.  Heard 2 birds way off and called a nesting hen to me.  Beautiful country and plan on coming back this season.
> 
> I've killed 10 birds and called in 3 more for my cousin the last 5yrs.



I don't have a problem finding a few. Only problem is beating timber and whitetailfreak to them. .  
There are a few here just have to find their core areas.  Depending on where you were. Those 2 you heard might not have been that far. These hills can be deceiving.  

It does seems to me up here the farther west you go the better the population. Ain't no turkeys east of the lower conasauga.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 6, 2015)

I don't think Mr. Herb intended for this to turn into a "who's gobbler is harder to kill" thread. He is referring to the numbers that other places seem to have compared to the numbers in the mountains. This thread soon headed in a downward spiral and I, myself, kind of got caught up in it too. He had a previous thread about the numbers in GA being down and what was causing this decline in population. This is not something that is just GA related. According to the March/April issue of the NWTF mag, several other states are having the same problem. MS went through a 43% decline over the last several years. SD is down by 25%. TX is down 30% on the Eastern turkey range while the Rio's flourish in the western part of the state. It is to the point that you can't kill but 1 eastern in TX. Last year they turned 300 birds loose there, with another 80 to be released this year. PA is down to the point that they have shortened their fall season. NY is showing 20 year lows. Like has already been stated though, it doesn't take a large number of gobblers to produce a good hatch. If there are 20 hens coming to a gobbler, I don't think he is breeding every one of those hens. And even if he isn't, she's still going to come to him every day.

I guess it's kinda like fishing.....maybe! 

I remember my grandpa stocked his pond with 12 bluegills that he bought when someone here was fishing a pond. Now, if I'd went down to that pond and caught 3 or 4 of those fish a week after he put them in, I'd of probably gotten my butt busted. But, if I had gone up the road to the neighbor's pond, I would have had to of caught a pile of fish from that already stocked pond to of had the same impact of taking those 3 or 4 fish from my grandpa's pond.

I know some of you guys have always had the luxury of turkey hunting from a very young age. I'm 54 and have been hunting them for 30 years. If there had been a season since I was 7 or 8, I certainly would have more than 30 years in on hunting them! I remember the very first drove I ever saw. A small flock down on Lotts creek, around the county line between Bulloch and Evans County. The real old timers had about wiped them out. That was about the time the DNR started offering rewards leading to the arrest of folks poaching turkeys.

 Mr. Herb, to answer your question in your original post. I've had good years and bad years in that 5 year period. It's been 11 for me and called up 2 for my wife the last couple years. One year, it seemed like I'd never hear another turkey gobble. I thought the "Turkey" rapture had happened.


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## Toddmann (Mar 6, 2015)

I have been able to scratch out my GA limit each of the past 5 years and I have seen my son take 10 in the past 5 years and a couple friends roll a few as well. I think I understand what u are saying Mr. Herb. I am sure the areas I hunt have more gobblers per acre than yours does. I can confidently say that my success is directly related to the great areas I have been priviledged and blessed to hunt. I hope someday to make it up your way to hunt a GA mountain bird. I would like to stand on one of those high ridges and hear them gobble on the next ridge.


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## Hammer Spank (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm not saying anything of the birds themselves.  It's just that the mountains of NE Ga probably have the lowest population densities in the state, the terrain is tough, the woods are wide open until late April, and the birds are not usually hammering all season long like they will in middle or south Ga.  

My favorite thing about this state is its diversity and typically in a single season I will hunt SW, SE, NW, and NE GA.  I'm going to miss out on SW this season but I'll cover the rest and love it all!


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## NUTT (Mar 6, 2015)

Mr. Herb
Thank you for your genuine concern for the future of turkey hunting. If the hills get to steep this year, hit me up and I would be glad to take you on some much easier walking terrain with a decent population of birds. 
Good Luck to ya!


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## icdedturkes (Mar 6, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> Bend quite a bit of discussion on another thread about hunter's killing too many of Georgia gobblers, for the good of the hunting area.



Herb I do not live or hunt in Georgia but have a question about the above quote.. 

Are you implying that overharvest has led to an overall decline in the turkey population and thus bad hunting?

Or are you implying the population has remained, steady yet the quality of hunting has diminished due to fewer and fewer gobblers through harvest? 

Not cornering you or anything just curious.. I have read from different biologists that gobbler only hunting has little effect on overall bird population. Only in extreme cases can it have long term effects on overall population.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 6, 2015)

Hammer Spank said:


> It's just that the mountains of NE Ga probably have the lowest population densities in the state,



That's what the latest research map shows. Mountains being fair, Piedmont being moderate and the southern part being good.


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## Bucky T (Mar 6, 2015)

Hammer Spank said:


> Killing birds in the mountains is certainly more of a challenge but I wouldnt say that the chattahoochee national forest is really hurting for turkeys.
> 
> I cant remember the last five years but three last year (two from a NW Ga lease) and one from a Screven county lease.
> 
> I bet you would be surprised Mr Mcclure. Both leases that I hunt get more turkey pressure than any wma that Ive ever hunted.



I have a buddy who lives in southeast Ga who went up to the mountains and rolled a nice gobbler to finish out his limit on his first hunt up there.  He said there was nothing to it.

Lol


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 6, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> Gut PILE, GOOD QUESTION FROM YOU.BAD STATEMENT FROM ME.
> 
> TELL YOU WHAT, SINCE MY TURKEYS DAYS ARE ABOUT OVER AND I WILL BE TELLING THE WORLD WHERE MY BELOVED GOBBLER WOODS ARE; WHY DON'T YOU GO TO NOONTOOTLA CREEK, FANNIN COUNTY, GEORGIA AND SEE IF YOU CAN LEARN THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION THERE.
> herb mcclure



I do believe that the terrain in that part of the state can make a hunt more difficult, but I do not believe that the turkeys themselves are any harder to kill. Some of the easiest hunts I have ever been on have been in the north ga mountians. 

What other parts of the state have you hunted Mr. Herb? Have you hunted any other states than GA? You've been at this a long time, longer than I have been alive. I would like your assessment on birds from other states, as well as different regions within the state of GA.


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## Stickman1 (Mar 6, 2015)

I visit a lot of hunting forums and this subject always seems to come up and a lot of time people will respond that there hunting lease gets more pressure than any public land.

And I always think to my self. Why would someone pay to hunt land that gets more pressure than public land lol

I hunt public and private land and "I" can honestly say that the birds on my private lease come pretty quick. But these birds are not pressured much verse the public land birds are.

I hunt the public land because I own some land there and have a cabin and to be honest "I" feel like I've actually accomplished something when I do harvest one of these worthy adversary's!


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## GAMHUNTER35 (Mar 6, 2015)

on my land only took 3 in the last 5 years didnt hav turkeys on it 7 years ago so i let them build up got 5 toms an 8 jakes 22 hens  this year so i am only going to take 1


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## M Sharpe (Mar 6, 2015)

Gut_Pile said:


> I do believe that the terrain in that part of the state can make a hunt more difficult, but I do not believe that the turkeys themselves are any harder to kill. Some of the easiest hunts I have ever been on have been in the north ga mountians.
> 
> What other parts of the state have you hunted Mr. Herb? Have you hunted any other states than GA? You've been at this a long time, longer than I have been alive. I would like your assessment on birds from other states, as well as different regions within the state of GA.



Will, Herb is not talking about the degree of difficulty! He is referring to the amount of birds in the mountains correlating to the numbers elsewhere! And, the effect that those 7 have on a relatively  small band of turkeys compared to the impact 17 would have on a much larger population! 
Mr. Herb, with his lack of hearing, has had a lot harder time accomplishing his feat than any of the rest of us! If you think not, then put some ear plugs in and hunt.....don't take them out when you get frustrated because you can't be sure of the sound you thought you heard. He has learned from nature it's self to be the hunter he is today. He has the patience of Job, to stand or sit motionless for hours. It is only his love of the bird that keeps him going to the woods. No running and gunning for Mr. Herb, for fear of busting a bird that he can't hear. There is a big difference in turkey killers and turkey men! I consider Mr. Herb to be a great Turkeyman with numerous kills to his credit along the way. 
BTW, I think he hunted the mountains of Virginia one year too.
 After many discussions with Mr. Herb, I've learned he has no desire to hunt anywhere but his beloved North Georgia mountains. Yes, he has hunted middle GA numerous times, successfully.
He and I have even discussed the fact that if the populations got down so low and they had to invoke   stricter limits or even close the season, like they did back years ago, that a lot of folks would just quit altogether. Then, when the season opened back up, you'd only have Turkeymen left.


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## ryanwhit (Mar 6, 2015)

Bucky T said:


> I have a buddy who lives in southeast Ga who went up to the mountains and rolled a nice gobbler to finish out his limit on his first hunt up there.  He said there was nothing to it.
> 
> Lol




When a bird is ready to die, you can't stop him!!  It doesn't matter where he lives, if he's got to cross a mountain, a swamp, or walk through a subdivision.  He's got a death wish and it's our duty to comply!


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## icdedturkes (Mar 6, 2015)

ryanwhit said:


> When a bird is ready to die, you can't stop him!!  It doesn't matter where he lives, if he's got to cross a mountain, a swamp, or walk through a subdivision.  He's got a death wish and it's our duty to comply!



Those are the birds that define alot of folks seasons..


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 6, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> Will, Herb is not talking about the degree of difficulty! He is referring to the amount of birds in the mountains correlating to the numbers elsewhere! And, the effect that those 7 have on a relatively  small band of turkeys compared to the impact 17 would have on a much larger population!



That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the explanation. 

7 gobblers there could equal 17 elsewhere when talking about percentage of the population being removed.


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## Bucky T (Mar 6, 2015)

ryanwhit said:


> When a bird is ready to die, you can't stop him!!  It doesn't matter where he lives, if he's got to cross a mountain, a swamp, or walk through a subdivision.  He's got a death wish and it's our duty to comply!



My comment was an inside joke between spankhammer and myself.


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## Bucky T (Mar 6, 2015)

And your comment is spot on ryanwhit!


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## The mtn man (Mar 6, 2015)

Mr. Herb, I know what your saying about these mtn birds, I know you didn't meant they are somehow smarter than flat land birds like so e took it, I  hunted both, but love hunting my beloved mtn turkey's more, the difference now is that it can be harder to find a gobbling turkey in the mtns than years past, another good point is that when I have struck a gobble in the piney middle ga woods I havnt had to kill my self to get around and cut him off, as far as the mtn birds due to the terrain and open woods I have at times spent 2 hours just trying to get around a bird without spooking him. So like Herb , I don't believe the mtn turkey's are in Any way smarter than flat land turkeys, I just have experienced them having a little more of an edge than flatland birds, same can be said for swampland turkey's, I would suspect trying to get setup to cut off a swamp turkey could be quite a challenge if you don't know every inch of the ground your hunting.


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## Nicodemus (Mar 6, 2015)

cklem said:


> Mr. Herb, I know what your saying about these mtn birds, I know you didn't meant they are somehow smarter than flat land birds like so e took it, I  hunted both, but love hunting my beloved mtn turkey's more, the difference now is that it can be harder to find a gobbling turkey in the mtns than years past, another good point is that when I have struck a gobble in the piney middle ga woods I havnt had to kill my self to get around and cut him off, as far as the mtn birds due to the terrain and open woods I have at times spent 2 hours just trying to get around a bird without spooking him. So like Herb , I don't believe the mtn turkey's are in Any way smarter than flat land turkeys, I just have experienced them having a little more of an edge than flatland birds, same can be said for swampland turkey's, I would suspect trying to get setup to cut off a swamp turkey could be quite a challenge if you don't know every inch of the ground your hunting.





Never hunted mountain turkeys, and only a few hill turkeys, but I`m sure that they can be just as contrary as some of these swamp birds I`m used to.

The bird that won`t bypass a wet cow track today might fly the river to get to you tomorrow. Part of what makes it fun and a challenge.


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## Timber1 (Mar 6, 2015)

Soon as they come out with gator proof boots I'll start swamp hunting. Was out fishing with a Valdosta local on the Tobesofkee river one summer afterrnoon and decided to jump in and cool off. Swam back over to the boat and noticed a  slick muddy trail on the bank. Said y'all got some big beavers down here don't ya. He said naa thats a gator slide. He said I set a world record for getting back in the boat.


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## Nicodemus (Mar 6, 2015)

Timber1 said:


> Soon as they come out with gator proof boots I'll start swamp hunting. Was out fishing with a Valdosta local on the Tobesofkee river one summer afterrnoon and decided to jump in and cool off. Swam back over to the boat and noticed a slow slick muddy trail on the bank. Said y'all got some big beavers down here don't ya. He said naa thats a gator slide. He said I set a world record for getting back in the boat.





You get used to em.  If one bites you, bite back. Got a place or two down here I hunt got gators and bears. Plus ALL the different venomous snakes including corals. You get used to them too.


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## Timber1 (Mar 6, 2015)

I said tobesofkee but I think it was withlacochee.
Snakes and bears I can handle. Gators and muddy water forget it.


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## Gator8em (Mar 6, 2015)

ryanwhit said:


> Let's not pat ourselves on the back too much...implying that we hunters kill enough male turkeys to significantly impact the turkey population region- or statewide is pretty presumptuous.  And in my opinion fairly far fetched (no extra charge for that use of alliteration).  Fact is, for the vast majority of species - and turkeys are included in this majority - it simply doesn't take a large male component of the population to propagate the population.



What he said...


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## The mtn man (Mar 6, 2015)

ryanwhit said:


> When a bird is ready to die, you can't stop him!!  It doesn't matter where he lives, if he's got to cross a mountain, a swamp, or walk through a subdivision.  He's got a death wish and it's our duty to comply!



This is spot on, I  had a couple of these mtn turkey's fly from 2 mountains over and land right in front of me, those are kind of like those Japanese zero pilots , those kind of turkey's live everywhere, and I agree with you, it's our duty to take them idiots out of the gene pool.


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## Paint Brush (Mar 6, 2015)

Well here is my take on Herbs prior post. I am fairley certain he was talking about the difficulties in hunting the mtns. Sure we all find that easy to get to bird every now and then even here in the mtns. You let some one thats not from around here come to the mtns and kill an easy one and he tells everyone nothing to it,just park any where kill one and go back home. But we all know better. As far as hard to kill I have said many time that I lost count how may gobblers that I have killed and only called to one time. If you hunt these mtns and I mean truly hunt all season you are a dedicated turkey hunter. Not a lot of guys from the flat lands will park at 4:00 get out of the truck knowing they have a two mile climb with a 2,000 ft vertical accent ahead on the pretence they might hear a turkey gobble at daylight. On top of this you might go a week without hearing one. This kind of hunting sort of brings the cream to the top.


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## herb mcclure (Mar 6, 2015)

*Over Killing GEORGIA gOBBLERS*

I wish I could explain things much better than I do. Maybe that's because it's like my wife says: " Herb you don't know the front-end of a sentence, from the back-end of a sentence". I did not study ENGLISH in school, I study the outdoors. 

My replies here are for the many posters that I have confused and my  apologies to all. 

I just had the thought of what impact does killing gobblers have on turkey numbers; for Georgia. If I had been smart, I would have studied Georgia's kill harvest records for the various years; but did not do that. Instead, I told of my own low kills, doing this I hoped  others here on the forum would tell of their kills  in their neck of woods too. Just curious I guess? 
Being, a shame of my own low kill numbers, for someone who has hunted as much as I have; caused me to mention difficulties and make comparison to others in other places; using numbers, which where bad.  

To: icetrucket. 
No I am not implying at all that killing too many gobblers will have an decreasing effect on over all turkey population, or a turkey hen's pout's counts; unless the hens fail to get bread and I don't think that's the case, because a hen only needs servicing one time, for her entire laying cycle, even second nesting I have been told by biologists.

Neither am I implying the population in Georgia has remained steady, which it has not, and the killing of gobblers has influenced any of it. 

What does concern me is for whatever their reason, Georgia hens are in a spiral-downward  trend for the past twenty-four years, being unable to produce a pout count like they did in the early 80's.

My thanks to Mr. Mark Sharpe too, for explaining things that I had talked with him about, which I fail to explain properly. 
herb mcclure


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## icdedturkes (Mar 6, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> To: icetrucket.
> No I am not implying at all that killing too many gobblers will have an decreasing effect on over all turkey population, or a turkey hen's pout's counts; unless the hens fail to get bread and I don't think that's the case, because a hen only needs servicing one time, for her entire laying cycle, even second nesting I have been told by biologists.
> 
> Neither am I implying the population in Georgia has remained steady, which it has not, and the killing of gobblers has influenced any of it.
> ...



Thank you for clearing that up and I agree. Biologists are always quick to point to simply hatch or up here in our Northern climate both hatch and winter.. With that being said I believe their are factors beyond simply these things that effect the population cycle of the wild turkey.. Our turkeys peaked late 90s early 00s and for no apparent reason plummeted and only have begun to rebound as of the last few years.. 

One thing that interests me is our ruffed grouse run a 10 year cycle where truly no scientific explanation exists as to why.. Could the wild turkey regardless of circumstances have a similar cycle that is not uncovered by biologists? Its not simply Georgia, some in SC are lobbying for lower bags due to less turkeys, AR has seen a major dump in population that has resulted in tighter harvest restrictions and later dates, NY is not the playground it once was,  even NE a state that seemed it would never peak now has folks saying it was not what it was 10 years ago.. 

There are many other factors beyond simply hatch. When I was kid everyone ran coon hounds and trapped, than interest waned. In areas such as I live agriculture could have negative effects.. Agriculture has become science, science has made farming efficient. When I was a kid 1st cutting of hay was not until mid june, now it 3rd week or so in may due faster germinating seeds and seeds that can grow in lower soil temps.. I have one farm I used to hunt and the farmer got 19 hens with the haybine in one day as the hens nest in the hay and refuse to leave the nest.. In areas rich with poultry farms many claim the poultry manure can relay diseases to wild turkeys that are not immune to diseases, as farms continue to grow more and more manure is spread and over larger areas.. 

I believe the more and more we believe we know about the life and population cycle of the wild turkey the less we actually know and studies have only scratched the surface as to what effects the population of the wild turkey outside of hatch and weather.


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## TheTurkeySlayer (Mar 6, 2015)

11 In 5 Years for me!


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## Tomboy Boots (Mar 6, 2015)

Mr. Herb, in answer to your original post, I have killed 8 gobblers in the past 5 years, 4 in Georgia, and 4 in Florida. Two of my Georgia gobblers were taken on public land, the other two on private land but not leases. I have only hunted public land mountain gobblers once, in 2011, in the middle of a blizzard (maybe a small exaggeration here but it was snowing and raining and freezing!) Good luck to you in the turkey woods this year


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## Duff (Mar 6, 2015)

icdedturkes said:


> Thank you for clearing that up and I agree. Biologists are always quick to point to simply hatch or up here in our Northern climate both hatch and winter.. With that being said I believe their are factors beyond simply these things that effect the population cycle of the wild turkey.. Our turkeys peaked late 90s early 00s and for no apparent reason plummeted and only have begun to rebound as of the last few years..
> 
> One thing that interests me is our ruffed grouse run a 10 year cycle where truly no scientific explanation exists as to why.. Could the wild turkey regardless of circumstances have a similar cycle that is not uncovered by biologists? Its not simply Georgia, some in SC are lobbying for lower bags due to less turkeys, AR has seen a major dump in population that has resulted in tighter harvest restrictions and later dates, NY is not the playground it once was,  even NE a state that seemed it would never peak now has folks saying it was not what it was 10 years ago..
> 
> ...





Hammer Spank said:


> I'm not saying anything of the birds themselves.  It's just that the mountains of NE Ga probably have the lowest population densities in the state, the terrain is tough, the woods are wide open until late April, and the birds are not usually hammering all season long like they will in middle or south Ga.
> 
> My favorite thing about this state is its diversity and typically in a single season I will hunt SW, SE, NW, and NE GA.  I'm going to miss out on SW this season but I'll cover the rest and love it all!





Good posts^^^


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## hawglips (Mar 6, 2015)

Over the past 5 seasons, I've taken 4 Georgia gobblers in 14 days of hunting - all private land, and none of which were GA mountain birds.   First time I ever hunted GA was 2004, so I don't have much history to go on as far as if there are more or less than there used to be.

Outside of GA, I've killed 32 during that same 5 year time frame.


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## M Sharpe (Mar 6, 2015)

icdedturkes said:


> Thank you for clearing that up and I agree. Biologists are always quick to point to simply hatch or up here in our Northern climate both hatch and winter.. With that being said I believe their are factors beyond simply these things that effect the population cycle of the wild turkey.. Our turkeys peaked late 90s early 00s and for no apparent reason plummeted and only have begun to rebound as of the last few years..
> 
> One thing that interests me is our ruffed grouse run a 10 year cycle where truly no scientific explanation exists as to why.. Could the wild turkey regardless of circumstances have a similar cycle that is not uncovered by biologists? Its not simply Georgia, some in SC are lobbying for lower bags due to less turkeys, AR has seen a major dump in population that has resulted in tighter harvest restrictions and later dates, NY is not the playground it once was,  even NE a state that seemed it would never peak now has folks saying it was not what it was 10 years ago..
> 
> ...



Tom, this is a very good post!!
You must have seen MKW in the last few day!!


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 6, 2015)

*I would rather kill 1 boss gobbler........*

than all the two years olds you can stack in a horse drawn wagon.

s&r


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## icdedturkes (Mar 6, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> Tom, this is a very good post!!
> You must have seen MKW in the last few day!!



I did but you are incorrect, MKW said that recent blind and decoy use led to the rapid decline in turkey populations


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## M Sharpe (Mar 6, 2015)

icdedturkes said:


> I did but you are incorrect, MKW said that recent blind and decoy use led to the rapid decline in turkey populations



 I figured that knock in the mouth that he promised you might have done you some good!!!  

But, on another note, he probably has a point there!!!


This is my final post on this thread. I think it has run it's course!! I've got wingbones that need finishing!


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## antharper (Mar 6, 2015)

15 for me with probally half on public land , but I do get to hunt a lot , I work a 2nd shift job that starts at 2:30 so I get to witness the good lords creations come alive a lot of mornings .


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## Gaswamp (Mar 6, 2015)

Do assists count half?


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## Timber1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Here is some 2012 info.  gohuntgeorgia.org/node/586               you can read and compare several years stats on wild turkey in ga.

2013 Season Forecast

According to a post-season telephone survey, Georgia’s estimated 56,736 resident turkey hunters had a great spring season in 2012, harvesting about 33,049 gobblers statewide. The average harvest per hunter (0.58 turkeys) decreased slightly from 2011, and was better than the previous 5 years averaged (0.56). Not surprising, 71.0% of turkey hunters surveyed rated Georgia turkey hunting good or excellent. The turkey population in Georgia has declined since 2003, primarily due to poor reproduction and loss of quality habitat. I think we will continue to experience the ups and downs of normal population cycles typical of a stable population at or near capacity. We recently estimated the population at about 335,000 turkeys and harvest rates remain good.


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## birddog52 (Mar 7, 2015)

Well i dont think that survey card is a very accurate gauge of turkeys killed when only a few folks get& use it plus you can falsify info with that card


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## Brad (Mar 7, 2015)

Reading through this thread I think some guys need to respect their elders even if they disagree with a statement just show some respect.


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## herb mcclure (Mar 7, 2015)

*Over Killing GEORGIA gOBBLERS*

To: Gut PILE, a fellow turkey man.

In all due respect, I owe Gut Pile an apology, for my Smart-Alec, response to his post #45, which he ask;"Why I think my 7 gobblers in my woods equals 17 elsewhere. What my post #1 stated was: "Some of the hunting leases where some of you hunt".  This was not implying to him, or anyone in-particular. My apology is for the way I answered; which I am ashamed of doing; not the statement itself.
However, I fell like I do owe Gut Pile, a better response to the question: "Why I think my 7 turkeys equals 17 turkeys from some of the leases where some of you hunt; again not referring to anyone.
Reply: 

When I see the untold numbers of photos, showing huge flocks of turkeys in them, right here on this forum under feeders and other open areas; then I know, there are many places with far more turkeys than the woods where I hunt. Therefore, I presumed 17 gobblers could be killed; as a equal to the 5 gobblers that I killed in 5 years, the 17 number just came out of who knows where. I should said, 15.

Nothing was said about my area's gobblers being harder to kill by me. Nothing was said about my area being harder to hunt by me.

As my post #1 stated: "There are not many gobblers living in the woods there and never have been". 

As Mr. Mark Sharpe stated too: "I had no intention for this thread to become who's gobblers are harder to kill, MOUNTAIN OR SWAMP GOBBLERS. Other posters started these comments about difficulty, harder to kill and ETS.   

My statements referring to my turkey woods also, has no barring about other mountain areas in North Georgia either. Many areas in the mountains of North Georgia are loaded with turkey gobblers also. 

Some other questions asked by Gut Pile:

Q=What other parts of the state of Georgia have I hunted?
A=I have taken gobblers from 16 different counties in Georgia.
Q=Have I ever hunted other states:
A=Only one time and one state. That was Western Virginia, Craig, County NFL; took 2 gobblers, one each morning; two out of three mornings there.

Sorry, I am not to get into making any assessments of turkeys, from different areas of Georgia or anywhere else.

I will refer Gut Pile, to another thread earlier on forum, called "Beard Board", which I did not make any comment on it. However, I have a beard board too, on wall at my home and like a lot of the posters on that thread stated. They too, have loss quite a few beards to mites; especially old beards like me. I was going to tell you my beard board is eight feet long, across the wall of my log home; the beards are touching, hanging down  . 
herb mcclure


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## Ballground (Mar 8, 2015)

In my opinion it should be two gobblers with a tagging system or even an call in tag system like Kentucky and no jakes I have killed a lot of birds in my time but I fear if something is not done the birds will all but disappear!!


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## The mtn man (Mar 8, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> To: Gut PILE, a fellow turkey man.
> 
> In all due respect, I owe Gut Pile an apology, for my Smart-Alec, response to his post #45, which he ask;"Why I think my 7 gobblers in my woods equals 17 elsewhere. What my post #1 stated was: "Some of the hunting leases where some of you hunt".  This was not implying to him, or anyone in-particular. My apology is for the way I answered; which I am ashamed of doing; not the statement itself.
> However, I fell like I do owe Gut Pile, a better response to the question: "Why I think my 7 turkeys equals 17 turkeys from some of the leases where some of you hunt; again not referring to anyone.
> ...



Mr herb, I once lost a rocky boot box full of my lifetime of beards by mites, so when I started my new collection I started brushing the meat end about 1-2 inches down with black liquid electrical tape, I only have a few years worth saved now and the liquid tape don't look bad, I would think that even if mites get to them, they will still be glued together at the top.


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## birddog52 (Mar 9, 2015)

Get you a big plastic drink cup put borax in the bottom of the cup. Put your turkey beard and feet in it with meaty part of beard and the knuckle of the turkey leg. Leave until they dry out you wont have any mite problems then.


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## Gut_Pile (Mar 9, 2015)

herb mcclure said:


> To: Gut PILE, a fellow turkey man.
> 
> In all due respect, I owe Gut Pile an apology, for my Smart-Alec, response to his post #45, which he ask;"Why I think my 7 gobblers in my woods equals 17 elsewhere. What my post #1 stated was: "Some of the hunting leases where some of you hunt".  This was not implying to him, or anyone in-particular. My apology is for the way I answered; which I am ashamed of doing; not the statement itself.
> However, I fell like I do owe Gut Pile, a better response to the question: "Why I think my 7 turkeys equals 17 turkeys from some of the leases where some of you hunt; again not referring to anyone.
> ...



No need for an apology Mr. Herb, just a misunderstanding. It happens often. Hope you have a great 2015 season.


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## cumberland (Mar 14, 2015)

I will agree with Mr. Mclure about the 7 to 17 ratio. I have hunted turkeys in every corner of this state, but the blue ridge mountain birds are the toughest, not to mention that a lot of the birds killed here would not even be able to be accessed by hunters that hunt in more gentle terrain and would not be willing to put in the sheer physical exertion it takes to get to most of these birds.  Mr. Herb you will probably know who i am if you think back to all the talks we used to have about gaddistown.


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## albrown100 (Mar 14, 2015)

14 in last 5 years in Bulloch , Jenkins , and Screven Co properties I hunt on


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## Stickman1 (Mar 15, 2015)

These who's birds are the toughest to hunt post are really a waste of time.

You hunt private land and your gonna stand fast and defend your knowledge of being a great turkey Hunter

And the public land guy is going to do the same

In the end your still hunting public land and sweating your tail off. Nothing changes so starting a post like this does nothing but get people fired up and kicked off the forum.


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