# HSUS & PETA vs. Farmers & Hunters



## JAGER

Is it possible to have an intelligent conversation about this topic without closing the thread? The last three threads about hog hunting for sport vs. hog hunting for control has been closed or disappeared. Everyone is passionate about the sport. But I'm asking you to respond with logic and intelligence instead of emotion. Take a minute to think and look at the big picture before you type.

Let's try this from a different angle. I named this thread "HSUS & PETA vs. Farmers & Hunters" for a specific reason.  All I've seen on this forum is hog hunters tearing each other apart because we use different methods to kill hogs. Hunters blaming other hunters. Hunters blaming landowners. Farmers blaming sport hunters. Everyone is so busy blaming everyone else we have completely lost focus of the task at hand. 

WE live in a state where farming is the #1 industry. There is not a single farmer, state wildlife biologist, US Department of Agriculture agent, Department of Natural Resource officer or state lawmaker who wishes to preserve the rights of a feral hog in the state of Georgia. This does NOT mean we (hunters) are going to eradicate feral hogs. This means we (hunters) need to find a better way to control them before we are replaced by a helicopter, Diazacon, Gonacon or Sodium Nitrite. 

HSUS and PETA have not divided us on this issue. WE have divided US. We need to set aside our differences right now and refocus. Can we at least agree that all hog hunters and farmers must UNITE against HSUS and PETA? 

Farmers are dealing with activist organizations like the HSUS and PETA criticizing common agricultural practices. Does this sound familiar, hunters? The Georgia Farm Monitor reports how the Georgia Farm Bureau is preparing farmers and ranchers to communicate on the topic of animal agriculture. Every time you hear the word farmer during this report add the word hunter. Both farmers and hunters need to convey OUR side of the story to the public. ---JAGER

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## JAGER

Hunters: Who is telling OUR STORY to the American public? The words and pictures you put on the GON hog hunting forum are telling our story!!! What do you communicate to the public on the topics of hog hunting and hog control? Are you positively sharing the importance of hog hunting to farmers and your community? 

The best defense is a good offense. The time to be offensive is NOW. We should not "react" to reports criticizing hunters. Hunters have a responsibility to educate the public about crop damage, hog hunting and hog control issues or we will be forced to "react" to a public who does not understand our sport or business. This is the society we live today.

From the above Farm Monitor report:

"It is estimated that every dollar spent denouncing agricultural (or hunting) practices, it takes ten dollars for farmers (or hunters) to regain the trust of the public. Social media websites (YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, GON) and understanding the generations are the best way to engage the consumers (or public)."

"Whether you agree with social media or not, you have to be part of the conversation or accept the fact that animal rights and environmentalist group celebrities are putting a face on the farmer (or hunter) for you."



JackJack77 said:


> I think Jager and his crew are misunderstood...farmers call guys like them in when there is a hog PROBLEM...in other words, that particular area he and his crew/clients is hunting is over ran with feral hogs to the point where it needs immediate over night results because of crop damage.



Thanks JackJack77. I don't know you but I appreciate that you understand the big picture. I believe it is important to solve the farmer and landowner crop damage problems while simultaneously educating the hunting and non-hunting public about feral hogs at the same time. No one can accuse me of taking a defensive approach on this subject. We have chosen an offensive approach to thermal hog control just as the Georgia Farm Bureau has taken an offensive approach to agriculture. 

Sometimes the offensive approach creates controversy. Controversy is good! This means the other side is listening to the message and both sides are talking about it. Our YouTube video, "22 Hogs in One Night" has reached 233,000 views in only four months. We will appear in five television shows on the Outdoor, Sportsman and Pursuit Channels and also monthly radio interviews and magazine articles. I choose to educate the American public about thermal hog control via JAGER PRO™ in Georgia before the public gets a Hollywood version from a celebrity. 

The members of GON are the face of hunters to the public. We are all passionate about what we do. How are you personally conveying this passion to the public? I hope you choose to post professional threads and multiple pictures of dead hogs harvested by your passion of choice. ---JAGER


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## hawg dawg

Regardless of what method you use to kill OR catch animals ,we will always have peta against us and I do mean "US". Thats everybody who chooses to kill an animal regardless of what it is. 

So we can either band together and put our differences behind us, or keep on doing what we are doing, which is staying so wrapped up worrying about how some other person's method of hunting might affect them. peta/hsus is who we need to worry about NOT EACH OTHER! If we continue do this, one day we will look around and ALL of our hunting rights will be gone. So whether you are a coon, hog, deer, or turkey hunter we better put our differences aside and #1 take care of our farmers and then take care of each other. 

Scott


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## JAGER

Awesome avatar hawg dawg!! Your branding and pictures look great. Super professional, keep up the good work.

I have a few questions to the sport hunters: 

Is the division on this forum so much about hunting methods anymore? Or is the division about hunting for sport vs. hunting for control? 

It sounds like Hawg Dawg, Kornbread, Big Bird, Jester and Hogrunner kill every hog they bay or catch. I'm curious to know if most sport hunters put these doggers who hunt for control in the same catagory as thermal hunters?

Do sport hunters still think control hunters will somehow eradicate the entire hog population in Georgia? 

Do sport hunters still think a positive media campaign to the public is not necessary after watching the Georgia Farm Bureau report?

Farmers, landowners, control hunters, wildlife biologists, US Department of Agriculture, Department of Natural Resources and state lawmakers are all united on the topic of feral hog control. Do sport hunters still think it is positive for their sport if they are the only group NOT on board with everyone else in the state? 

Logically, how does control hunting negatively affect sport hunting?

---JAGER


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## redlevel

hawg dawg said:


> Regardless of what method you use to kill OR catch animals ,we will always have peta against us and I do mean "US". Thats everybody who chooses to kill an animal regardless of what it is.



This is true.  The anti groups hate the grouse hunter dressed in tweeds with the briar pipe, who kills maybe three birds per year just as badly as they hate the hog dogger whose dogs pull down 30 or 40 squealing pigs per year.  Those of us who are predominately bird hunters or small game hunters are only fooling ourselves if we think our sport is any more acceptable to the extremist groups than the rankest, stanking, hog-stabbing redneck in South Georgia.  The antis hate us all equally.

However, when it comes to influencing those who do not hunt, but don't particularly care whether or not others have the right, the antis can make more hay presenting hog doggers and bowhunters in particular as the villain.   They know they will get a much more visceral reaction from non-hunters by showing videos of squealing, bleeding pigs and dogs with eyeballs gouged out than they will from a pipe-smoking grouse hunter with his side-by-each Parker high-grade broken open, and maybe one bird on his belt.

Don't misunderstand me.  I am not condemning dog hunting or bow hunting.  I am just saying that they both are much easier targets for the antis than some other types of hunting.


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## big country rnr

If we dont stand together we fall apart!!!


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## hawg dawg

redlevel said:


> This is true.  The anti groups hate the grouse hunter dressed in tweeds with the briar pipe, who kills maybe three birds per year just as badly as they hate the hog dogger whose dogs pull down 30 or 40 squealing pigs per year.  Those of us who are predominately bird hunters or small game hunters are only fooling ourselves if we think our sport is any more acceptable to the extremist groups than the rankest, stanking, hog-stabbing redneck in South Georgia.  The antis hate us all equally.
> 
> However, when it comes to influencing those who do not hunt, but don't particularly care whether or not others have the right, the antis can make more hay presenting hog doggers and bowhunters in particular as the villain.   They know they will get a much more visceral reaction from non-hunters by showing videos of squealing, bleeding pigs and dogs with eyeballs gouged out than they will from a pipe-smoking grouse hunter with his side-by-each Parker high-grade broken open, and maybe one bird on his belt.
> 
> Don't misunderstand me.  I am not condemning dog hunting or bow hunting.  I am just saying that they both are much easier targets for the antis than some other types of hunting.



What you said is very true. Thats why we need your support, Because the day is coming when you will need ours.


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## hawg dawg

JAGER said:


> Awesome avatar hawg dawg!! Your branding and pictures look great. Super professional, keep up the good work.
> 
> I have a few questions to the sport hunters:
> 
> Is the division on this forum so much about hunting methods anymore? Or is the division about hunting for sport vs. hunting for control?
> 
> It sounds like Hawg Dawg, Kornbread, Big Bird, Jester and Hogrunner kill every hog they bay or catch. I'm curious to know if most sport hunters put these doggers who hunt for control in the same catagory as thermal hunters?
> 
> Do sport hunters still think control hunters will somehow eradicate the entire hog population in Georgia?
> 
> Do sport hunters still think a positive media campaign to the public is not necessary after watching the Georgia Farm Bureau report?
> 
> Farmers, landowners, control hunters, wildlife biologists, US Department of Agriculture, Department of Natural Resources and state lawmakers are all united on the topic of feral hog control. Do sport hunters still think it is positive for their sport if they are the only group NOT on board with everyone else in the state?
> 
> Logically, how does control hunting negatively affect sport hunting?
> 
> ---JAGER



Ok I am on both sides of the fence here. If I am doing a pay hunt we kill as many hogs as we can get on. On the other hand, if it's me and my son on a saturday afternoon pleasure hunting out with the dogs we are a lot more selective. 

Now if I am doing a control hunt for a farmer or hunting club we kill everything we catch. I don't want to eradicate the hogs, I enjoy going out and catching hogs, and it is also a source of income through our guided hunts, but at the same time I understand that certain people/places need the hogs gone. I guess what I'm trying to say is different times I wear different hats.


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## Ihunt

If everyone of us killed every hog we could we MAY put a dent in them.They breed too fast to ever eradicate.If every one of us who visits the hog hunting forum posted our numbers and added them together it would be a drop in the bucket.

Let's assume the all hunters combined that visit this forum killed 5000 hogs in one year.800 sows breed and have 6 piglets,3 each that are females.If everyone of these females (sows) has 1 more litter that same year and has 6 pigs in each litter that would equal 16,800 pigs from just 800 sows in just 1 year.

NO ONE is going to eradicate the pigs but hunting together we can help individual farmers.


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## JackJack77

We mainly hog hunt for sport, but in a sense its still somewhat of Hog Control. Because whatever we catch goes with us alive and too a pin. Boars are put in different living quarters than sows and shoats/pigs. The "trophy boars" are sold to Hog Hunting outfitters that have acres upon acres of fenced in land/woods that people pay to shoot trophy boars. 

   Thermal hunting with rifles and such I would say is for the quick, high volume (22 hogs in one night) results that farmers need to prevent future crop damage that is already taking place. 

   All in all, its fun how ever you do it. To each his own, as long as hogs are being caught/killed. We shouldnt bash each other for different methods of achieving the same goal.


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## big country rnr

JAGER said:


> Awesome avatar hawg dawg!! Your branding and pictures look great. Super professional, keep up the good work.
> 
> I have a few questions to the sport hunters:
> 
> Is the division on this forum so much about hunting methods anymore? Or is the division about hunting for sport vs. hunting for control?
> 
> It sounds like Hawg Dawg, Kornbread, Big Bird, Jester and Hogrunner kill every hog they bay or catch. I'm curious to know if most sport hunters put these doggers who hunt for control in the same catagory as thermal hunters?
> 
> Do sport hunters still think control hunters will somehow eradicate the entire hog population in Georgia?
> 
> Do sport hunters still think a positive media campaign to the public is not necessary after watching the Georgia Farm Bureau report?
> 
> Farmers, landowners, control hunters, wildlife biologists, US Department of Agriculture, Department of Natural Resources and state lawmakers are all united on the topic of feral hog control. Do sport hunters still think it is positive for their sport if they are the only group NOT on board with everyone else in the state?
> 
> Logically, how does control hunting negatively affect sport hunting?
> 
> ---JAGER



Well i would call myself a sport hunter! But thats because of where i hunt and how i was rasied! Im in a few deer hunting leases and hunt alot around north fla which is all Pine plantations owned by timber companys. And for the first couple year there was no limits on the hogs and in less than two years it was hard to even find a hog track in our club! So i went to the president and asked if we could put a cap on killing hog or there wasnt gonna be any!!! So we started a program of catch and release for the hog hunters and we started cutting boars so that the deer hunters could shoot a few to eat and not waste the meat after they shot it cause it was a boar hog! All the hogs we cut we tagged with a big orange ear tag and it was a fine if one was shot with out a tag the second offense you were out of the club! I have been in there 7 years now and weve made a  change for better .Now we can find 4 or 5 tracks every time we go hunt! And we all pitch in together and buy a drum of corn and scatter it on the roads to keep them from rooting so much and it has worked so far! It seems as we have made ever body happy! You always have to remember that thinGs aint always the same from one place To another..Some are doing farmers a good deed and some have the luxury of releasing hog to hunt again and make more hogs! There are alot of hunters that kill every hog and thats not what we do . The only way we will kill a hog is if it is severly injured by the dogs or want to take one to eat.  They never go to waste because thats how i was raised and its a sin in my eyes! It makes me so mad to see a good boar hog laying there to rot just for the fun of shooting something! I feel one day we will be jugded for our sins and i dont want that on me list! Some of you do this for a job. But what will you tell god when you meet him and he asks you why you killed and leave to rot his animals It was ur job! 
For me the fun is in catching and tying hogs. what is fun about killing something that is caught and cant defend itself? But to each his own... I wish you all success and hope we all "myself included"  can understand each other one day!


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## jkoch

I don't care how they are killed or "removed" I just want them gone. I am still waiting for the DNR to wake up and allow baiting foor these PESTS! 
If the landowner wants them off then I say do whatever it takes. They are not a game animal, they are a plague. 
Thanks Jager


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## JAGER

hawg dawg said:


> Now if I am doing a control hunt for a farmer or hunting club we kill everything we catch. I don't want to eradicate the hogs...



Point taken. I personally don't think it is possible to eradicate feral hogs on Georgia farms via any hunting or trapping method. We killed 649 hogs in 2008, 812 in 2009 and expect to top 1,000 in 2010 hunting the same properties in the same counties while killing more and more hogs each year. 



big country rnr said:


> Im in a few deer hunting leases and hunt alot around north fla which is all Pine plantations owned by timber companys... So we started a program of catch and release for the hog hunters...



There are nights we kill every single hog on a farm. But it only solves the problem for a month or so until we receive another phone call from the landowner. Biologists use the term "immigration" to describe this process. These farms will always have new groups of hogs migrating into this perfect habitat of swamp, creek or river wetland combined with a generous food source (crops). The only way to control crop damage from immigration is with high-volume removal.

Open questions: 

Can both sides agree there is a major difference between sport hunting pine plantations owned by timber companies and control hunting Georgia farms experiencing crop damage? 

Can both sides agree it is impossible to permanently eradicate feral hogs from Georgia farmland via any hunting and trapping methods due to immigration? 

Can both sides agree there is an important need for high-volume hog control methods to protect Georgia farmland?

---JAGER


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## notnksnemor

I've read this forum for quite some time.
I'm not a hog hunter, I've killed a few when the opportunity arose, but something that sticks in my mind as a logical person is:
These are strictly my thoughts:
The state wants the hogs gone.....the state controls thousands of acres of land that hogs live on (WMA's) but will only allow hunting when another season is in effect. The state is providing an unpressured breeding ground for hogs several months of the year.
It seems to be agreed here that pressure will move hogs from one property to another. 
So it just seems logical to me that if there is a WMA in close proximity to where hogs are trying to be controlled, it will be like a safe haven at certain times of year.
Logically, you'll never eradicate pigs as long as they have place to go unbotherd.


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## JAGER

NOTNKSNEMOR said:


> So it just seems logical to me that if there is a WMA in close proximity to where hogs are trying to be controlled, it will be like a safe haven at certain times of year.



Excellent observation! I have a meeting with the Department of Natural Resources next week and will ask this exact question. I'll let you know the answer.

---JAGER


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## gin house

NOTNKSNEMOR said:


> I've read this forum for quite some time.
> I'm not a hog hunter, I've killed a few when the opportunity arose, but something that sticks in my mind as a logical person is:
> These are strictly my thoughts:
> The state wants the hogs gone.....the state controls thousands of acres of land that hogs live on (WMA's) but will only allow hunting when another season is in effect. The state is providing an unpressured breeding ground for hogs several months of the year.
> It seems to be agreed here that pressure will move hogs from one property to another.
> So it just seems logical to me that if there is a WMA in close proximity to where hogs are trying to be controlled, it will be like a safe haven at certain times of year.
> Logically, you'll never eradicate pigs as long as they have place to go unbotherd.



 yep, this is very true, makes you wonder if they want them gone.  i know the dnr in south carolina was complaining about low hunting licence numbers being sold annually, that was a few years ago, havent heard it since.  theres tons of people who buy a hunting licence just for hog hunting with dogs and wont do any other kind of hunting, theres more than not of this kind around where i live, they want to revenue, i dont know if i buy in or not on the states wanting them gone, it does hurt the farmers but how does it hurt the states?? it brings them money.


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## redlevel

JackJack77 said:


> We mainly hog hunt for sport, but in a sense its still somewhat of Hog Control. Because whatever we catch goes with us alive and too a pin. Boars are put in different living quarters than sows and shoats/pigs. The "trophy boars" are sold to Hog Hunting outfitters that have acres upon acres of fenced in land/woods that people pay to shoot trophy boars.
> 
> Thermal hunting with rifles and such I would say is for the quick, high volume (22 hogs in one night) results that farmers need to prevent future crop damage that is already taking place.
> 
> All in all, its fun how ever you do it. To each his own, as long as hogs are being caught/killed. We shouldnt bash each other for different methods of achieving the same goal.



Just curious on how you coordinate with Department of Agriculture to come inspect the hogs when you catch them and move them,  making it all legal.   Will they come out at midnight and inspect them?


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## gin house

jagger, i understand where youre coming from with the hsus and peta.  they have singled out different groups thru the years and with major financial backing have defeated them all.  i have watched them for a while, ive seen them drain groups and walk over them.  the problem is this, most people even on this forum are uneducated on hsus and peta.  when you boil it down they despise you OWNING an animal, if they have their way eventually you will not, no animal.  the little coin banks sitting on the counter at the local convenience stores with the little puppy making a sad, crying face, people put money in them but research and you'll find that the hsus does not financially support your local animal shelter, the money from that jar is to lobby lawyers to stop animal ownership and all forms of animal use.  some despise cockfighting but support hunting, if youre gonna stand against those two you cannot devide animal use groups like them or not.  hsus and peta are heavy in hollywood, thats where they gained their power and publicity, our kids and other metally inferior adults watch them on tv and are taught this way, they have focused on the children like we should have been doing for many years and it has come back to bite us.  when you see farmers having to learn how to speak to certain groups to keep the right to have their farms and animals its signs of bad times, the nra cant hardly keep their head above water, these groups are serious and i hate to say it but we will probably live to see them have their way.  hollywood celebrities are the public face of peta and hsus, they bring their message non stop on tv but people eat it up, oh, one more thing, i dont remeber exactly but i can find out some of them and prove it also,  theres a good many products you buy regularly at wal-mart that give a portion of their proceeds to hsus and peta with advertising it, hunters support hsus and peta and dont even know it. crazy aint it? but true.


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## notnksnemor

JAGER said:


> Excellent observation! I have a meeting with the Department of Natural Resources next week and will ask this exact question. I'll let you know the answer.
> 
> ---JAGER



I'm just commenting as a person that reads these posts, and can interpret what he reads for himself.
I've read posts from people who depend on the land for their livelihood and I understand their position.
I've read posts from people that want to keep a tradition alive and I understand their position.
And I've read posts from people that just want to argue because someone doesn't agree with them and how they do things, and frankly I don't understand their position.
I know the reasons the DNR limits access to WMA's and it has nothing to do with hog control, it's because if they were open to hog hunting year round the number of game animals killed by undesirable participants ( I refrain from using the term hunter in this context) would far out way any benefit gained from hogs being killed.
So, in IMHO you have a group that wants hogs gone, you have a group that wants them around for sport, and you have a state that says they want them gone but is supplying an incubator for them because they can't trust the citizens to be good stewards of the state resources (WMA's).

Is there a middle ground in all this?


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## hogrunner

Yea, Jager ask DNR why they won't let us get on the WMA's with our dogs and help.  We have a property that borders Chickasawhatchee and the poor farmer stays eat up with them.  The older fellow I hunt with used to be able to call DNR and let them know he was in the area and they didn't care.  Now if they catch us on their side we are prosecuted.  They told the farmer that he was baiting them cause he had traps out and also told him to put up a fence to keep the hogs out!  Why can't they let doggers have a type of draw to hunt on the WMA and limit how many and when we can hunt?  One or two doggers per week or something??


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## Jester896

JAGER said:


> It sounds like Hawg Dawg, Kornbread, Big Bird, Jester and Hogrunner kill every hog they bay or catch. I'm curious to know if most sport hunters put these doggers who hunt for control in the same catagory as thermal hunters?
> 
> ---JAGER



Nope....some get away (tongue-n-cheek)



Ihunt said:


> If everyone of us killed every hog we could we MAY put a dent in them.They breed too fast to ever eradicate.If every one of us who visits the hog hunting forum posted our numbers and added them together it would be a drop in the bucket.
> 
> Let's assume the all hunters combined that visit this forum killed 5000 hogs in one year.800 sows breed and have 6 piglets,3 each that are females.If everyone of these females (sows) has 1 more litter that same year and has 6 pigs in each litter that would equal 16,800 pigs from just 800 sows in just 1 year.
> 
> NO ONE is going to eradicate the pigs but hunting together we can help individual farmers.



Great number there at this rate we will all be doing what we do for sometime.



big country rnr said:


> Well i would call myself a sport hunter! But thats because of where i hunt and how i was rasied! Im in a few deer hunting leases and hunt alot around north fla which is all Pine plantations owned by timber companys. And for the first couple year there was no limits on the hogs and in less than two years it was hard to even find a hog track in our club! So i went to the president and asked if we could put a cap on killing hog or there wasnt gonna be any!!! So we started a program of catch and release for the hog hunters and we started cutting boars so that the deer hunters could shoot a few to eat and not waste the meat after they shot it cause it was a boar hog! All the hogs we cut we tagged with a big orange ear tag and it was a fine if one was shot with out a tag the second offense you were out of the club! I have been in there 7 years now and weve made a  change for better .Now we can find 4 or 5 tracks every time we go hunt! And we all pitch in together and buy a drum of corn and scatter it on the roads to keep them from rooting so much and it has worked so far! It seems as we have made ever body happy! You always have to remember that thinGs aint always the same from one place To another..Some are doing farmers a good deed and some have the luxury of releasing hog to hunt again and make more hogs! There are alot of hunters that kill every hog and thats not what we do . The only way we will kill a hog is if it is severly injured by the dogs or want to take one to eat.  They never go to waste because thats how i was raised and its a sin in my eyes! It makes me so mad to see a good boar hog laying there to rot just for the fun of shooting something! I feel one day we will be jugded for our sins and i dont want that on me list! Some of you do this for a job. But what will you tell god when you meet him and he asks you why you killed and leave to rot his animals It was ur job!
> For me the fun is in catching and tying hogs. what is fun about killing something that is caught and cant defend itself? But to each his own... I wish you all success and hope we all "myself included"  can understand each other one day!



Sorry RNR gotta ask...do you catch and release deer on your lease...gluttony I believe is the sin you are speaking of.  I have to believe that god is going to forgive of for trying to control the pig population especially when most of us are donating the harvested meat that we ourselves cannot use. 



jkoch said:


> I don't care how they are killed or "removed" I just want them gone. I am still waiting for the DNR to wake up and allow baiting foor these PESTS!
> If the landowner wants them off then I say do whatever it takes. They are not a game animal, they are a plague.
> Thanks Jager



They are by allowing people to hunt with lights, in a vehicle, and baiting. 



NOTNKSNEMOR said:


> I've read this forum for quite some time.
> I'm not a hog hunter, I've killed a few when the opportunity arose, but something that sticks in my mind as a logical person is:
> These are strictly my thoughts:
> The state wants the hogs gone.....the state controls thousands of acres of land that hogs live on (WMA's) but will only allow hunting when another season is in effect. The state is providing an unpressured breeding ground for hogs several months of the year.
> It seems to be agreed here that pressure will move hogs from one property to another.
> So it just seems logical to me that if there is a WMA in close proximity to where hogs are trying to be controlled, it will be like a safe haven at certain times of year.
> Logically, you'll never eradicate pigs as long as they have place to go unbotherd.



Chickasawhatchee has to be a real strong breading ground for them in our area as well as the swamps of Magnolia.  Any of the farms we hunt around that area, that is the first place they try to get to.  I think it is about a $600 fine for having a 4-wheeler and a gun just over the property line on one of the little roads.


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## Jester896

redlevel said:


> Just curious on how you coordinate with Department of Agriculture to come inspect the hogs when you catch them and move them,  making it all legal.   Will they come out at midnight and inspect them?



Last time I hunted with him it took us 3 hours to build the pen in the swamp.  When we got back with the inspector 2 days later half of them had gotten away.  That just stinks after all of the hard work we did.


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## tnhillbilly

big country rnr said:


> Well i would call myself a sport hunter! But thats because of where i hunt and how i was rasied! Im in a few deer hunting leases and hunt alot around north fla which is all Pine plantations owned by timber companys. And for the first couple year there was no limits on the hogs and in less than two years it was hard to even find a hog track in our club! So i went to the president and asked if we could put a cap on killing hog or there wasnt gonna be any!!! So we started a program of catch and release for the hog hunters and we started cutting boars so that the deer hunters could shoot a few to eat and not waste the meat after they shot it cause it was a boar hog! All the hogs we cut we tagged with a big orange ear tag and it was a fine if one was shot with out a tag the second offense you were out of the club! I have been in there 7 years now and weve made a  change for better .Now we can find 4 or 5 tracks every time we go hunt! And we all pitch in together and buy a drum of corn and scatter it on the roads to keep them from rooting so much and it has worked so far! It seems as we have made ever body happy! You always have to remember that thinGs aint always the same from one place To another..Some are doing farmers a good deed and some have the luxury of releasing hog to hunt again and make more hogs! There are alot of hunters that kill every hog and thats not what we do . The only way we will kill a hog is if it is severly injured by the dogs or want to take one to eat.  They never go to waste because thats how i was raised and its a sin in my eyes! It makes me so mad to see a good boar hog laying there to rot just for the fun of shooting something! I feel one day we will be jugded for our sins and i dont want that on me list! Some of you do this for a job. But what will you tell god when you meet him and he asks you why you killed and leave to rot his animals It was ur job!
> For me the fun is in catching and tying hogs. what is fun about killing something that is caught and cant defend itself? But to each his own... I wish you all success and hope we all "myself included"  can understand each other one day!



  Thats a big AMEN!


----------



## JAGER

1.) Can both sides agree there is a major difference between sport hunting pine plantations owned by timber companies and control hunting Georgia farms experiencing crop damage? 

2.) Can both sides agree it is impossible to permanently eradicate feral hogs from Georgia farmland via any hunting and trapping methods due to immigration? 

3.) Can both sides agree there is an important need for high-volume hog control methods to protect Georgia farmland?

Can this be our common ground?

---JAGER


----------



## Scott Cain

*Big turn around Jager*

It seemed to me the other day you said you had met with the hsus and Peta and they had no problem with killing hogs. Why are you worried about it now? Big Country rnr glad to see somebody else that is botherd by waisting game! I live in the mountains and i can assure you that the hogs can be killed out. they have already been before and from some true hunters hard work there a few back. So to anyone who thinks they cant be killed out you do not know what you are talking about i know it can be done i have seen it! What is all this talk about peta now no one was worried about it the other day? I am not going to argue about it with you any more. I know i am not going to change your mind. I just hope that the same thing that happend in the mountains doesnt happen to you hunters down south.Any animal can be killed outAny at one time there were from 30 to 60 million american Bison. there wes so many passenger pidgeons that a single flock was said to block the sun ! YOU boys can make your own minds up if killing hogs like Jager is going to hurt your hunting being the killing in numbers or by the antis i have said all i Know to say good luck!


----------



## BobKat

i like hogs i raised them in high school and they are very intelligent animals, however they are destructive and extremley adaptable, at this point i would have to say that we need to get rid of them ASAP


----------



## gin house

Scott Cain said:


> It seemed to me the other day you said you had met with the hsus and Peta and they had no problem with killing hogs. Why are you worried about it now? Big Country rnr glad to see somebody else that is botherd by waisting game! I live in the mountains and i can assure you that the hogs can be killed out. they have already been before and from some true hunters hard work there a few back. So to anyone who thinks they cant be killed out you do not know what you are talking about i know it can be done i have seen it! What is all this talk about peta now no one was worried about it the other day? I am not going to argue about it with you any more. I know i am not going to change your mind. I just hope that the same thing that happend in the mountains doesnt happen to you hunters down south.Any animal can be killed outAny at one time there were from 30 to 60 million american Bison. there wes so many passenger pidgeons that a single flock was said to block the sun ! YOU boys can make your own minds up if killing hogs like Jager is going to hurt your hunting being the killing in numbers or by the antis i have said all i Know to say good luck!



 to the tee, how many people know that the deer was almost wiped out, south carolina used what little native stock that was left to regenerate, georgia had to import some from south carolina and other states.  the term " a buck" comes from the charleston south carolina area when hides were sold to be exported and were worth a dollar, thats where  "a buck" came from.  dont know the exact year but there was no such thing as deer hunting in south carolina until like the 50's. think about it a little.   scott cain, im right there with you but theres some that wont listen at all, their minds made up.


----------



## hawg dawg

redlevel said:


> Just curious on how you coordinate with Department of Agriculture to come inspect the hogs when you catch them and move them,  making it all legal.   Will they come out at midnight and inspect them?



I can answer this. Once your hog pen has been inspected prior to placing hogs into it, it is labeled a wild hog holding facility. After that, Dr. Black, the state vet has to 
give you written permission to transfer hogs to it.  Finally after you get hogs into your pen, the state inspector comes out and takes a blood sample of each hog.  He ear tags them and when the blood test is complete the ones with a "clean bill of health" can be relocated.  The ones that don't have a "clean bill of health" are killed on the spot.  And no, they will not come out at midnight.


----------



## HOGDOG76

"WE" AINT ON HSUS AND PETA'S RADAR,YOU ARE BUDDY. YOU POSTED VIDEOS ON YOU TUBE BLASTING HOGS AND PROUDLY DISPLAY THE PIGLETS YOU SHOOT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. YOU ARE DOING A GREAT THING FOR THE FARMER AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR REASONING FOR BLASTING THE LIL ONES BUT THE AVERAGE 19 YEAR OLD GIRL DONT AND NEVER WILL REGARDLESS OF THE FACTUAL DATA YOU PROVIDE.ITS STILL A DEAD BABY PIG TO HER IF YOUR IN IT FOR THE FARMER AND YOU EXPECT US TO EMBRACE YOUR HUNTING METHOD SHOULDNT YOU WELCOME THE HELO HUNTERS WITH OPEN ARMS IF ITS ALL ABOUT THE FARMER THEN YOU SHOULD BE RESEARCHING POISONS INSTEAD OF THERMAL BUT NOBODY PAYS TO GO POISONING I GUESS


----------



## gnarlyone

*A consideration.....*

Notice though how many different opinions about hog control and methods are discussed here at GON...I would say that most people that are involved in hog control ..whether it be doggin and tieing,dogging and killing, thermal and night vision shooting..and all the way down to the "sportsman" that seriously trys to hunt and kill as many hogs as he can with just normal methods...each have a different opinion of the "problem" and what should be done about it. When it comes to anything that could effect a regulation change..Opinions should only come from people who have gained a complete knowledge of the situation thru experience and are involved greatly in hog control measures.....not  the ones that "chime" in that don't have a clue about a hog, don't even live in areas with hogs, but just pick a side to support.Regulations effect us all...if it becomes a law...then everybody..whether you agree or not must abide by that law......Like i said...both sides have a common ground but different ideas on what should be done and to what degree it should be done. With that said...As much as each side has thier different opinion....only one person meets with DNR and  that is all they hear..Is that Jagers' fault? No.....It's everydody's fault that has a different opinion for not standing up for what you believe is right...I know Rod..I've met him and sat down and talked and still p.m. with him on concerns or issues that i feel need explained...He is a good person..he is a good business man..and a good sellsman...Much of what is delivered to people in decision making positions  is his opinion.....but just like here..it is not what everybody thinks......To you Rod...the first step to "UNITY" among the different groups here is representing opinions  you may not agree with but are just as legit as what you believe...This is a hunting forum per say...not a farm forum..hunters play a huge role in revenue for the state of Georgia with the wild hog alone....He is not a game animal..but we have to buy a license to hunt him,he is not a game animal but dnr sets up laws that say how and when we can hunt him..DNR tells me i have to buy a license to hunt him even if i don't even carry a weapon..DNR tells me i have to get a special "Permit" to exclude me from normal regulations to kill him to protect 
my crops...they don't like him and don't want him around but suck in every penny they can by his existance.  Every Night vision or thermal scope that is purchased to shoot him is income generated by his existance, every box of shells,every gallon of gas,every cut collar,every vest,every vet bill,every bag of corn,every $2,200.00 a weekend Jager Pro hunt,every wma stamp to hunt hog hunt,every hog gun, every $500.00 "WILD BOAR PEN HUNT"...It goes on and on...bet when it's said and done..the profit of his existance exceeds the crop damage figure.


----------



## hawg dawg

JAGER said:


> 1.) Can both sides agree there is a major difference between sport hunting pine plantations owned by timber companies and control hunting Georgia farms experiencing crop damage?
> 
> 2.) Can both sides agree it is impossible to permanently eradicate feral hogs from Georgia farmland via any hunting and trapping methods due to immigration?
> 
> 3.) Can both sides agree there is an important need for high-volume hog control methods to protect Georgia farmland?
> 
> Can this be our common ground?
> 
> ---JAGER


This is what I think!
# 1.) yes
# 2.) yes
# 3.) Yes


----------



## redlevel

Scott Cain said:


> glad to see somebody else that is botherd by waisting game!



Hogs are not game animals.  They are vermin, like rats or roaches.  They are every bit as destructive as rats or roaches, just on a much larger scale.  They are just as disease ridden as rats or roaches.   Every last feral hog needs to be killed, just as every last rat or roach needs to be killed.  It is, of course, impossible to do that, but perfection should be the goal.

American Bison and passenger pigeons were native animals that were wiped out by market hunters.  There is absolutely no valid comparison or analogy between either of those species and feral hogs, which are non-native exotics.  We can only hope that Jager and the other thermal outfits can wipe them out, down to the last, nasty, squealing piglet.


----------



## hawg dawg

gnarlyone said:


> Notice though how many different opinions about hog control and methods are discussed here at GON...I would say that most people that are involved in hog control ..whether it be doggin and tieing,dogging and killing, thermal and night vision shooting..and all the way down to the "sportsman" that seriously trys to hunt and kill as many hogs as he can with just normal methods...each have a different opinion of the "problem" and what should be done about it. When it comes to anything that could effect a regulation change..Opinions should only come from people who have gained a complete knowledge of the situation thru experience and are involved greatly in hog control measures.....not  the ones that "chime" in that don't have a clue about a hog, don't even live in areas with hogs, but just pick a side to support.Regulations effect us all...if it becomes a law...then everybody..whether you agree or not must abide by that law......Like i said...both sides have a common ground but different ideas on what should be done and to what degree it should be done. With that said...As much as each side has thier different opinion....only one person meets with DNR and  that is all they hear..Is that Jagers' fault? No.....It's everydody's fault that has a different opinion for not standing up for what you believe is right...I know Rod..I've met him and sat down and talked and still p.m. with him on concerns or issues that i feel need explained...He is a good person..he is a good business man..and a good sellsman...Much of what is delivered to people in decision making positions  is his opinion.....but just like here..it is not what everybody thinks......To you Rod...the first step to "UNITY" among the different groups here is representing opinions  you may not agree with but are just as legit as what you believe...This is a hunting forum per say...not a farm forum..hunters play a huge role in revenue for the state of Georgia with the wild hog alone....He is not a game animal..but we have to buy a license to hunt him,he is not a game animal but dnr sets up laws that say how and when we can hunt him..DNR tells me i have to buy a license to hunt him even if i don't even carry a weapon..DNR tells me i have to get a special "Permit" to exclude me from normal regulations to kill him to protect
> my crops...they don't like him and don't want him around but suck in every penny they can by his existance.  Every Night vision or thermal scope that is purchased to shoot him is income generated by his existance, every box of shells,every gallon of gas,every cut collar,every vest,every vet bill,every bag of corn,every $2,200.00 a weekend,every wma stamp to hunt hog hunt,every hog gun, every $500.00 "WILD BOAR PEN HUNT"...It goes on and on...bet when it's said and done..the profit of his existance exceeds the crop damage figure.



Good post!


----------



## redlevel

hawg dawg said:


> I can answer this. Once your hog pen has been inspected prior to placing hogs into it, it is labeled a wild hog holding facility. After that, Dr. Black, the state vet has to
> give you written permission to transfer hogs to it.  Finally after you get hogs into your pen, the state inspector comes out and takes a blood sample of each hog.  He ear tags them and when the blood test is complete the ones with a "clean bill of health" can be relocated.  The ones that don't have a "clean bill of health" are killed on the spot.  And no, they will not come out at midnight.



And what percentage of the feral swine that have been transported in Georgia would you estimate have gone through this process?

Second question:  technically, would not each farm or plantation you hunted have to have approved holding facilities?  Otherwise, when that trailer moves a hog from the farm on which it is captured to the farm where the holding facility is, it would be a violation of the regulation against transporting feral swine without the requisite blood sample.  Correct?


----------



## gin house

hawg dawg said:


> Good post!



  x2 good post


----------



## HOGDOG76

redlevel said:


> hogs are not game animals.  They are vermin, like rats or roaches.  They are every bit as destructive as rats or roaches, just on a much larger scale.  They are just as disease ridden as rats or roaches.   Every last feral hog needs to be killed, just as every last rat or roach needs to be killed.  It is, of course, impossible to do that, but perfection should be the goal.
> 
> American bison and passenger pigeons were native animals that were wiped out by market hunters.  There is absolutely no valid comparison or analogy between either of those species and feral hogs, which are non-native exotics.  We can only hope that jager and the other thermal outfits can wipe them out, down to the last, nasty, squealing piglet.


blah blah blah. If you are so bothered by nonnative species then eliminate feral horses and pheasants and why dont they outlaw the transport and release of quail?because then you couldnt take those pea brained,hyper,obnoxious,barking bird dogs out to point a 6 ounce tame birdthat was planted that morning then blast it with a twelve gauge shotgun and call yourself a hunter:d


----------



## HOGDOG76

gnarlyone said:


> notice though how many different opinions about hog control and methods are discussed here at gon...i would say that most people that are involved in hog control ..whether it be doggin and tieing,dogging and killing, thermal and night vision shooting..and all the way down to the "sportsman" that seriously trys to hunt and kill as many hogs as he can with just normal methods...each have a different opinion of the "problem" and what should be done about it. When it comes to anything that could effect a regulation change..opinions should only come from people who have gained a complete knowledge of the situation thru experience and are involved greatly in hog control measures.....not  the ones that "chime" in that don't have a clue about a hog, don't even live in areas with hogs, but just pick a side to support.regulations effect us all...if it becomes a law...then everybody..whether you agree or not must abide by that law......like i said...both sides have a common ground but different ideas on what should be done and to what degree it should be done. With that said...as much as each side has thier different opinion....only one person meets with dnr and  that is all they hear..is that jagers' fault? No.....it's everydody's fault that has a different opinion for not standing up for what you believe is right...i know rod..i've met him and sat down and talked and still p.m. With him on concerns or issues that i feel need explained...he is a good person..he is a good business man..and a good sellsman...much of what is delivered to people in decision making positions  is his opinion.....but just like here..it is not what everybody thinks......to you rod...the first step to "unity" among the different groups here is representing opinions  you may not agree with but are just as legit as what you believe...this is a hunting forum per say...not a farm forum..hunters play a huge role in revenue for the state of georgia with the wild hog alone....he is not a game animal..but we have to buy a license to hunt him,he is not a game animal but dnr sets up laws that say how and when we can hunt him..dnr tells me i have to buy a license to hunt him even if i don't even carry a weapon..dnr tells me i have to get a special "permit" to exclude me from normal regulations to kill him to protect
> my crops...they don't like him and don't want him around but suck in every penny they can by his existance.  Every night vision or thermal scope that is purchased to shoot him is income generated by his existance, every box of shells,every gallon of gas,every cut collar,every vest,every vet bill,every bag of corn,every $2,200.00 a weekend jager pro hunt,every wma stamp to hunt hog hunt,every hog gun, every $500.00 "wild boar pen hunt"...it goes on and on...bet when it's said and done..the profit of his existance exceeds the crop damage figure.



well said


----------



## hawg dawg

redlevel said:


> And what percentage of the feral swine that have been transported in Georgia would you estimate have gone through this process?
> 
> Second question:  technically, would not each farm or plantation you hunted have to have approved holding facilities?  Otherwise, when that trailer moves a hog from the farm on which it is captured to the farm where the holding facility is, it would be a violation of the regulation against transporting feral swine without the requisite blood sample.  Correct?



 #1.) About 2%
 #2.) No the hogs are already there. Not as long as you have the paper work from the state vet. Just like a hall pass!


----------



## HOGDOG76

redlevel said:


> And what percentage of the feral swine that have been transported in Georgia would you estimate have gone through this process?
> 
> Second question:  technically, would not each farm or plantation you hunted have to have approved holding facilities?  Otherwise, when that trailer moves a hog from the farm on which it is captured to the farm where the holding facility is, it would be a violation of the regulation against transporting feral swine without the requisite blood sample.  Correct?


INCORRECT.YOU CAN TRANSPORT TO YOUR APPROVED PEN .


----------



## redlevel

HOGDOG76 said:


> "WE" AINT ON HSUS AND PETA'S RADAR,YOU ARE BUDDY. YOU POSTED VIDEOS ON YOU TUBE BLASTING HOGS AND PROUDLY DISPLAY THE PIGLETS YOU SHOOT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. YOU ARE DOING A GREAT THING FOR THE FARMER AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR REASONING FOR BLASTING THE LIL ONES BUT THE AVERAGE 19 YEAR OLD GIRL DONT AND NEVER WILL REGARDLESS OF THE FACTUAL DATA YOU PROVIDE.ITS STILL A DEAD BABY PIG TO HER



Yeah, he should be a real sportsman and post stuff that won't offend the animal rights folks, like this!!  As far as I'm concerned, this is right in there with good old Mike Vick!  Great sportsmen (and, apparently, women) these hog doggers!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## hawg dawg

WE are getting of track!


----------



## redlevel

HOGDOG76 said:


> INCORRECT.YOU CAN TRANSPORT TO YOUR APPROVED PEN .



I don't believe it is off topic.

OK, then, I am not convinced you are correct, but the regulation could just possibly be interpreted that way, so I'll concede that to you for the sake of argument.

What percentage of the feral swine that have been relocated in Georgia have been moved to an approved pen, inspected and blood sampled by a vet, and ear tagged per the regulation?  I see that hawg dawg estimates 2%.  Do you concur?


----------



## HOGDOG76

redlevel said:


> Yeah, he should be a real sportsman and post stuff that won't offend the animal rights folks, like this!!  As far as I'm concerned, this is right in there with good old Mike Vick!  Great sportsmen (and, apparently, women) these hog doggers!
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



I DIDNT SAY THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA EITHER BUT YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINT AS USUAL IN YOUR ATTEMPT TO DISPARAGE HOG DOGGERS.  YOUR RIGHT THAT IS JUST LIKE DOG FIGHTING THAT HOG HAD HIS EAR BIT FOR 5 SECONDS UNLIKE THE CRIPPLED BIRD "SPORTSMEN" LIKE YOU FAILED TO KILL WITH A SHOTGUN AND YOUR DOG MUST FETCH BC YOUR TOO LAZY WHILE IT SUFFERS UNTIL YOU GET DONE SLAPPING YOURSELF ON THE BACK AND RING ITS NECK. HSUS KNOWS ROD'S NAME BUT NOT MINE AND PROBABLY NOT THOSE BOYS IN THE VIDEO. NOT SAYING WE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF WHAT ANY OF US DO BUT DONT POP THEM IN THE MOUTH AND RUN BACK HERE THINKING IM GONNA FIGHT EM FOR YOU.


----------



## HOGDOG76

hawg dawg said:


> we are getting of track!



sorry but its hard to have a adult conservation with some people around


----------



## redlevel

HOGDOG76 said:


> UNLIKE THE CRIPPLED BIRD "SPORTSMEN" LIKE YOU FAILED TO KILL WITH A SHOTGUN AND YOUR DOG MUST FETCH BC YOUR TOO LAZY WHILE IT SUFFERS UNTIL YOU GET DONE SLAPPING YOURSELF ON THE BACK AND RING ITS NECK.



Same old HOGDOG76 fall-back position---"YEAH BUT BUT BUT WE'RE REAL MEN--HOGDOGGERS CAN PEE FURTHER THAN ANYBODY"


----------



## gin house

redlevel said:


> Yeah, he should be a real sportsman and post stuff that won't offend the animal rights folks, like this!!  As far as I'm concerned, this is right in there with good old Mike Vick!  Great sportsmen (and, apparently, women) these hog doggers!
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CU8aL-X_rg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



  this is the perfect example of people who oppose the hsus and peta but down other animal users for what they do.  redlevel,  it sounds strange but believe it or not you have to train hog dogs like this just like you have to train a coondog with a cagecoon,  or squirelldog.  if this offends you so bad why dont you complain about catching in the wild, its just the same as the video.  people need to step back and see that they are animals, they have no souls, they were put here for us to use is what my bible says, take care of your animals but understand that bad things have to happen in certain situations sometimes, peta and people who whine about things like in this video should drop it and go support the homeless, the homeless children with nothin to eat, give money to research/treat cancer or aids, theres plenty of good things that could be done rather than spend billions of dollars over an animals rights but like i say, i dont expect much of some people, nothin these days suprise me, its all backwards.


----------



## HOGDOG76

redlevel said:


> same old hogdog76 fall-back position---"yeah but but but we're real men--hogdoggers can pee further than anybody"



same redlevel.derail any thread possible by whining about relocation and ignorant posts about hogdoggers while ignoring the facts about  your beloved bird hunting.


----------



## SELFBOW

Seems like red's way of hunting is just like the hog hunters...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SrqKY_5JwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SrqKY_5JwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## Scott Cain

*redlevel*

I really dont know how to take you. Idont know if i should laugh or try to help you. Or if you just want a hug? But the fact remains that hogs are respected game animals all over the world. They are one of if not the smartest game animal any were. I wonder if that is what drives your anger . ARE they too smart for you? If you need some help im sure that they are some hunters who will give you some pointers on one of the worlds smartest and most courages Game animals. If not stick with the grouse and small game it is much safer for you. And you seem to like that.I hope you all the luck in the world .YOUR Friend and fellow Game hunter. scott cain.


----------



## redlevel

buckbacks said:


> Seems like red's way of hunting is just like the hog hunters...



Yep, just exactly the same.  Anyone can see that.

Them released quail sho' do make a mess, rooting up the corn and peanuts and digging holes in the pasture.


----------



## gin house

buckbacks said:


> Seems like red's way of hunting is just like the hog hunters...
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SrqKY_5JwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SrqKY_5JwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>





Scott Cain said:


> I really dont know how to take you. Idont know if i should laugh or try to help you. Or if you just want a hug? But the fact remains that hogs are respected game animals all over the world. They are one of if not the smartest game animal any were. I wonder if that is what drives your anger . ARE they too smart for you? If you need some help im sure that they are some hunters who will give you some pointers on one of the worlds smartest and most courages Game animals. If not stick with the grouse and small game it is much safer for you. And you seem to like that.I hope you all the luck in the world .YOUR Friend and fellow Game hunter. scott cain.



thats pretty good right there, lol.  redlevel, do you consider yourself in the same class as michael vick and those hog doggers on your video????   this is too funny.


----------



## Rich Kaminski

*Lets show the PETA people how hospital we are*

Wouldn't it be great for some of our beloved doggers to catch some nice size hogs, lets saw 250+ pounds with some nice size tusks and we can let the Peta people get in a pen with these hogs and just pet them and hug them and kiss those boar on the nose.
Yeah, thats what I want to see is Peta spreading the love.
I know the responses to this one are going to be good.


----------



## gin house

Scott Cain said:


> I really dont know how to take you. Idont know if i should laugh or try to help you. Or if you just want a hug? But the fact remains that hogs are respected game animals all over the world. They are one of if not the smartest game animal any were. I wonder if that is what drives your anger . ARE they too smart for you? If you need some help im sure that they are some hunters who will give you some pointers on one of the worlds smartest and most courages Game animals. If not stick with the grouse and small game it is much safer for you. And you seem to like that.I hope you all the luck in the world .YOUR Friend and fellow Game hunter. scott cain.



 scott, youre killin me the birds would be alot safer.


----------



## jkoch

HOGDOG76 said:


> sorry but its hard to have a adult conservation with some people around




IN YOUR MIND WHO IS THE ADULT?


----------



## HOGDOG76

Rich Kaminski said:


> Wouldn't it be great for some of our beloved doggers to catch some nice size hogs, lets saw 250+ pounds with some nice size tusks and we can let the Peta people get in a pen with these hogs and just pet them and hug them and kiss those boar on the nose.
> Yeah, thats what I want to see is Peta spreading the love.
> I know the responses to this one are going to be good.



 I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THAT RICH.


----------



## gin house

jkoch said:


> IN YOUR MIND WHO IS THE ADULT?



 if you seriously have to ask that question you may want to go back and read further into it.  hogdog76 has a point, some people just want to argue no matter what, why else would someone who despises hogs and hog doggin, bird hunts is his thing,  and animal use spend so much time on here? thought of that?


----------



## Scott Cain

*redlevel*

oh yes one more question? does it hurt when you get called out on things like released qual and exotic none game spiecies like ring neck pheasants? Because it looks like that would sting! did i spell that right sting!


----------



## redlevel

Scott Cain said:


> oh yes one more question? does it hurt when you get called out on things like released qual and exotic none game spiecies like ring neck pheasants? Because it looks like that would sting! did i spell that right sting!



You did all right with sting.  You made a mess of species.  I dont know what a "qual" is.  I don't believe I've ever seen a pheasant except on television, maybe.


----------



## redlevel

gin house said:


> why else would someone who despises hogs and hog doggin, bird hunts is his thing,  and animal use spend so much time on here? thought of that?



First off, I do indeed despise feral hogs, but I don't despise legitimate, law abiding, property respecting hog doggers.  I know a few good ones.  What I do despise is low-life, trespassing  poachers who brag about their illegal activities such as trespassing and relocating hogs on internet forums.   I am a farm owner who has had calves shot, irrigation pipe ruined, crops destroyed, gates stolen, and other travesties visited on me and my property by trespassers.  Most of them were deer hunters rather than hog doggers.    I have suffered thousands of dollars in damages to crops by feral hogs, and have damaged machinery in pastures destroyed by feral hogs.   I figure I have much more of a right to express my opinions on threads such as these than ill-informed people who want to discuss a destructive pest as if it were a legitimate game animal, worthy of management considerations.


----------



## bigreddwon

gnarlyone said:


> Notice though how many different opinions about hog control and methods are discussed here at GON...I would say that most people that are involved in hog control ..whether it be doggin and tieing,dogging and killing, thermal and night vision shooting..and all the way down to the "sportsman" that seriously trys to hunt and kill as many hogs as he can with just normal methods...each have a different opinion of the "problem" and what should be done about it. When it comes to anything that could effect a regulation change..Opinions should only come from people who have gained a complete knowledge of the situation thru experience and are involved greatly in hog control measures.....not  the ones that "chime" in that don't have a clue about a hog, don't even live in areas with hogs, but just pick a side to support.Regulations effect us all...if it becomes a law...then everybody..whether you agree or not must abide by that law......Like i said...both sides have a common ground but different ideas on what should be done and to what degree it should be done. With that said...As much as each side has thier different opinion....only one person meets with DNR and  that is all they hear..Is that Jagers' fault? No.....It's everydody's fault that has a different opinion for not standing up for what you believe is right...I know Rod..I've met him and sat down and talked and still p.m. with him on concerns or issues that i feel need explained...He is a good person..he is a good business man..and a good sellsman...Much of what is delivered to people in decision making positions  is his opinion.....but just like here..it is not what everybody thinks......To you Rod...the first step to "UNITY" among the different groups here is representing opinions  you may not agree with but are just as legit as what you believe...This is a hunting forum per say...not a farm forum..hunters play a huge role in revenue for the state of Georgia with the wild hog alone....He is not a game animal..but we have to buy a license to hunt him,he is not a game animal but dnr sets up laws that say how and when we can hunt him..DNR tells me i have to buy a license to hunt him even if i don't even carry a weapon..DNR tells me i have to get a special "Permit" to exclude me from normal regulations to kill him to protect
> my crops...they don't like him and don't want him around but suck in every penny they can by his existance.  Every Night vision or thermal scope that is purchased to shoot him is income generated by his existance, every box of shells,every gallon of gas,every cut collar,every vest,every vet bill,every bag of corn,every $2,200.00 a weekend Jager Pro hunt,every wma stamp to hunt hog hunt,every hog gun, every $500.00 "WILD BOAR PEN HUNT"...It goes on and on...bet when it's said and done..the profit of his existance exceeds the crop damage figure.



good post


----------



## Scott Cain

*redlevel*

Does your theory on none native game animals extend to chuckar and ring necks? Or is it just the animals you cant pick up in one hand? I cant really see were you have a leg to stand on when it comes to videos on hogs & dogs . PLease correct me if i am wrong but wouldnt it be worse for a dog to be on video running down a bird 100 times smaller than itself and totally no way to defend its self after being shot with a high power shot gun.Than a boar fighting a dog that is half its size. Please explain how the hog video is worse. You see old buddy it cant be you have lost this arguement.Once again !!!!!!


----------



## bigreddwon

Rich Kaminski said:


> Wouldn't it be great for some of our beloved doggers to catch some nice size hogs, lets saw 250+ pounds with some nice size tusks and we can let the Peta people get in a pen with these hogs and just pet them and hug them and kiss those boar on the nose.
> Yeah, thats what I want to see is Peta spreading the love.
> I know the responses to this one are going to be good.




I'd pay to watch that!!


----------



## gin house

redlevel said:


> First off, I do indeed despise feral hogs, but I don't despise legitimate, law abiding, propertyactivities such  respecting hog doggers.  I know a few good ones.  is lowWhat I do despise -life, trespassing  poachers who brag about their illegal as trespassing and relocating hogs on internet forums.   I am a farm owner who has had calves shot, irrigation pipe ruined, crops destroyed, gates stolen, and other travesties visited on me and my property by trespassers.  Most of them were deer hunters rather than hog doggers.    I have suffered thousands of dollars in damages to crops by feral hogs, and have damaged machinery in pastures destroyed by feral hogs.   I figure I have much more of a right to express my opinions on threads such as these than ill-informed people who want to discuss a destructive pest as if it were a legitimate game animal, worthy of management considerations.



     let me come huntin and quit whining, i feel your loss mr farmer, i want to help, when can i come hunting? i wont break your stuff, damage your crops, steal your gates, heck, i might even give you a hug, yes you redlevel.  come on.


----------



## koyote76

why dont we stop bickering about bird dogs and hog dogs, and what form of hunting is more offensive to peta and get on track and devise a plan to become consolidated group of hunters to defend ourselves from the crazed radicals of peta. i dont care about hogs in a pen getting chased or birds getting punted so that they flush. THEY ARE JUST BIRDS AND HOGS! 

lets get back on track and stop taking blows at each other and set our minds to a course of production.


----------



## Scott Cain

*redlevel*

ALL jokes aside do you think that your attitude toward other hunters might have something to do with all the damage you have gotten?People dont let a lot of things slide. It doesnt sound like you are trying to help make things better at your place. With statements like i wish they would kill the last pig. UP here in the mountains you would have just orderd up a fresh new bunch of hogs on your place free of charge. I dont know how the boys down south will deal with that? Good night old buddy!


----------



## Jester896

gnarlyone said:


> Notice though how many different opinions about hog control and methods are discussed here at GON...I would say that most people that are involved in hog control ..whether it be doggin and tieing,dogging and killing, thermal and night vision shooting..and all the way down to the "sportsman" that seriously trys to hunt and kill as many hogs as he can with just normal methods...each have a different opinion of the "problem" and what should be done about it. When it comes to anything that could effect a regulation change..Opinions should only come from people who have gained a complete knowledge of the situation thru experience and are involved greatly in hog control measures.....not  the ones that "chime" in that don't have a clue about a hog, don't even live in areas with hogs, but just pick a side to support.Regulations effect us all...if it becomes a law...then everybody..whether you agree or not must abide by that law......Like i said...both sides have a common ground but different ideas on what should be done and to what degree it should be done. With that said...As much as each side has thier different opinion....only one person meets with DNR and  that is all they hear..Is that Jagers' fault? No.....It's everydody's fault that has a different opinion for not standing up for what you believe is right...I know Rod..I've met him and sat down and talked and still p.m. with him on concerns or issues that i feel need explained...He is a good person..he is a good business man..and a good sellsman...Much of what is delivered to people in decision making positions  is his opinion.....but just like here..it is not what everybody thinks......To you Rod...the first step to "UNITY" among the different groups here is representing opinions  you may not agree with but are just as legit as what you believe...This is a hunting forum per say...not a farm forum..hunters play a huge role in revenue for the state of Georgia with the wild hog alone....He is not a game animal..but we have to buy a license to hunt him,he is not a game animal but dnr sets up laws that say how and when we can hunt him..DNR tells me i have to buy a license to hunt him even if i don't even carry a weapon..DNR tells me i have to get a special "Permit" to exclude me from normal regulations to kill him to protect
> my crops...they don't like him and don't want him around but suck in every penny they can by his existance.  Every Night vision or thermal scope that is purchased to shoot him is income generated by his existance, every box of shells,every gallon of gas,every cut collar,every vest,every vet bill,every bag of corn,every $2,200.00 a weekend Jager Pro hunt,every wma stamp to hunt hog hunt,every hog gun, every $500.00 "WILD BOAR PEN HUNT"...It goes on and on...bet when it's said and done..the profit of his existance exceeds the crop damage figure.



BEST ONE YET



Scott Cain said:


> ALL jokes aside do you think that your attitude toward other hunters might have something to do with all the damage you have gotten?People dont let a lot of things slide. It doesnt sound like you are trying to help make things better at your place. With statements like i wish they would kill the last pig. UP here in the mountains you would have just orderd up a fresh new bunch of hogs on your place free of charge. I dont know how the boys down south will deal with that? Good night old buddy!



I hear they take the ears and tail off of um so they are harder to catch and turn um loose...once they have been inspected of course.


----------



## olcowman

It's a long boring story thus this is the Readers Digest version. I was involved, in a mostly, minor role, in some legislation concerning govt oversight in the livestock market. I wrote an article addressing the nurturing relationship that existed between farmer's and their animals that got a little circulation and sort of pushed me into a nomination as a representative to take a more active role in this campaign at the national level. (I could have made a little money and got my expenses paid) Less than a week after the nomination was in print myself and several existing directors of the committee recieved a mailing from someone named "concerned" (PETA according to our later research) that contained a very detailed and well researched media file, (3 fold, glossy pictures and all), that outlined all the indescretions they felt I had committed against God's creatures. (I wasn't the only one targeted, but I did have some of the better pictures if I do say so myself) It was a collection of my forum postings, pictures, some newspaper articles, and my home address with cell/home phone numbers. The information they gathered was impressive and was from a diverse group of sources that included some remarks I had made on a catahoula breeder's blog, a few hunting pictures from a variety of web sites, an assortment of comments and random thoughts relating to hunting, farming, the U.S. political system, and even a snippet about me eating bull testes, all sorts of tidbits i had scattered at random stops along my internet travels. They even had a humorous story I had shared, in a jokingly manner, via what I thought was a private message concerning a mule with bad manners and a hickory ax handle. 

This assortment of my own prose, so nicely parceled in their brochure along with their own manipulation and comments, well it really made me seem like a less than decent person. It was obvious to those involved with the campaign that it was an unfair and unethical use of my words and images taken totally out of context, but also, it effectively held the potential to compromise to some degree our efforts thus far. This was pointed out in no uncertain terms, in a very ominous manner, thru out the document suggesting that i was less than an ideal selection and that moredata could be forthcoming if neccesary. 

I went ahead and tucked my tail between my legs, as did a couple of other targeted people, and absolved any further participation. The anonomous nature and the fact that my personal information (and that pm) was included really weirded me out at the time and it took all the fight out of me. This was not an isolated event and eventually resulted in an investigation by the authorities as the undertaking was dogged thru out the process with similiar slanders and threats. 

My point? It is kind of hard for even me to believe, but the antis closely follow every forum, web site, blog, etc. that is even remotely associated to their agendas. Their archiving of data, as obscure as it might appear, is gleaning whatever information found, which when needed can then be recalled and perversly twisted to further the aspirations of the group. They're extremely well financed, maintain a stable of evil lawyers, and organized beyond comprehension with a well defined goal. It is absurd that they have the ability to monitor our internet activities so effectively and precisely. I assume they have an army of little old ladies, inhabiting medium income housing shared with a plethora of house cats, who spends endless hours watching Judge Judy, eating pharmacueticals, and collecting our pictures, videos and postings... for the cause.

Here in lies my concerns and the basis for my interactions with Jager and his supporters on this forum. I am in no way condemning his methods or his contributions to the ag industry. And currently, have no reason in particular to represent myself as a "dogger" or hog hunter in general. But I have since the beginning, and as someone has already stated, questioned why so much time is devoted to the subject of feral swine control for farmers on a forum dedicated to sport hunting? Wouldn't this issue be better served if offered on a forum for farming and agriculture concerns? True, their exists some familiarity and shared methods between the business of controlling hogs and the sport of hunting hogs. As does that which inevitably exists between hunting deer for sport and the killing of deer with spotlights under the guise of a state issued crop depradation permits. Should we also provide space on this forum to the individuals employed in this type of deer harvesting? To post their pictures and related stories? 

No pot stirring intended, but I see a defined line between sport hunting and the business of swine/cervid control serving the agriculture industry. This is not a case of hog doggers hating on the thermal imaging crowd, as it has been pointed out that many doggers function specifically for control purposes from time to time. The friction (most of it anyway imo) stems from the fact that on more than one occasion various individuals choose to lay a great deal of blame on this group for the distribution of hogs across the state, and to openly question both the effectiveness and sincerity in their efforts to control swine populations. I think this is unfair due to the fact that it hasn't always been illegal to relocate hogs and just a generation ago the entire state abounded with free range livestock which probably had as much to do with the distribution of feral swine than anything else. Heck, if you get right down to it, it was the dang spanish who started this whole mess so I reckon we need to be hating on DeSoto and Ponce de Leon and the rest of them pre-colonial pig pushers? 

Bottom line? I just can't fathom any benefit in creating a rift within the forum that shouldn't exist to begin with. Once it is acknowledged that yes some tools are shared, that the  harvest of feral swine is generally a shared goal, and for the most part, it should be virtually impossible to totally eradicate the hogs statewide and deny those individuals who pursue them for traditional sport purposes. From this point I fail to see any comparison whatsoever and maintain that any further discussion within a hunting forum as nothing more than additional opportunities to further the agendas of the antis who are hacking away at our liberties and traditions with the ax we handed them.


----------



## REDMOND1858

JAGER said:


> Excellent observation! I have a meeting with the Department of Natural Resources next week and will ask this exact question. I'll let you know the answer.
> 
> ---JAGER



While your at it ask them why hog hunting with dogs isnt allowed but other game hunting with dogs is. Im not talkin bout year round, just a few months a year or maybe 1 weekend a month. i know we could wear them out on oaky woods around here


----------



## olcowman

REDMOND1858 said:


> While your at it ask them why hog hunting with dogs isnt allowed but other game hunting with dogs is. Im not talkin bout year round, just a few months a year or maybe 1 weekend a month. i know we could wear them out on oaky woods around here



Somebody might should tell Jager that he's wasting his time talking to them folks..... They pretty much end up doing what they want to do no matter what and I ain't seen or heard of anything like a straight answer come out of that bunch in decades.


----------



## tnhillbilly

koyote76 said:


> why dont we stop bickering about bird dogs and hog dogs, and what form of hunting is more offensive to peta and get on track and devise a plan to become consolidated group of hunters to defend ourselves from the crazed radicals of peta. i dont care about hogs in a pen getting chased or birds getting punted so that they flush. THEY ARE JUST BIRDS AND HOGS!
> 
> lets get back on track and stop taking blows at each other and set our minds to a course of production.


I must say this is the best post yet, this is a very good point, we need to be fighting peta and hsus instead of each other, I have been reading most of this and can see a little of most everyones points. I understand that farmers have to protect thier crops, I understand that there are people that tresspass and hunt illegally, but that doesn't mean that all hunters act that way, and as far as the post that said that peta and hsus didnt really care about hog killin well, where have you been? just go to either one of thier web sights and do a little research, thier whole pupose in life is to totally wipe out ALL hunting, and anything that has to do with any animal. and as scott stated, YES hogs can be wiped out, i have seen it too. but to sit here and argue back and forth will acomplish nothing. It takes two to argue,


----------



## bigreddwon

olcowman said:


> It's a long boring story thus this is the Readers Digest version. I was involved, in a mostly, minor role, in some legislation concerning govt oversight in the livestock market. I wrote an article addressing the nurturing relationship that existed between farmer's and their animals that got a little circulation and sort of pushed me into a nomination as a representative to take a more active role in this campaign at the national level. (I could have made a little money and got my expenses paid) Less than a week after the nomination was in print myself and several existing directors of the committee recieved a mailing from someone named "concerned" (PETA according to our later research) that contained a very detailed and well researched media file, (3 fold, glossy pictures and all), that outlined all the indescretions they felt I had committed against God's creatures. (I wasn't the only one targeted, but I did have some of the better pictures if I do say so myself) It was a collection of my forum postings, pictures, some newspaper articles, and my home address with cell/home phone numbers. The information they gathered was impressive and was from a diverse group of sources that included some remarks I had made on a catahoula breeder's blog, a few hunting pictures from a variety of web sites, an assortment of comments and random thoughts relating to hunting, farming, the U.S. political system, and even a snippet about me eating bull testes, all sorts of tidbits i had scattered at random stops along my internet travels. They even had a humorous story I had shared, in a jokingly manner, via what I thought was a private message concerning a mule with bad manners and a hickory ax handle.
> 
> This assortment of my own prose, so nicely parceled in their brochure along with their own manipulation and comments, well it really made me seem like a less than decent person. It was obvious to those involved with the campaign that it was an unfair and unethical use of my words and images taken totally out of context, but also, it effectively held the potential to compromise to some degree our efforts thus far. This was pointed out in no uncertain terms, in a very ominous manner, thru out the document suggesting that i was less than an ideal selection and that moredata could be forthcoming if neccesary.
> 
> I went ahead and tucked my tail between my legs, as did a couple of other targeted people, and absolved any further participation. The anonomous nature and the fact that my personal information (and that pm) was included really weirded me out at the time and it took all the fight out of me. This was not an isolated event and eventually resulted in an investigation by the authorities as the undertaking was dogged thru out the process with similiar slanders and threats.
> 
> My point? It is kind of hard for even me to believe, but the antis closely follow every forum, web site, blog, etc. that is even remotely associated to their agendas. Their archiving of data, as obscure as it might appear, is gleaning whatever information found, which when needed can then be recalled and perversly twisted to further the aspirations of the group. They're extremely well financed, maintain a stable of evil lawyers, and organized beyond comprehension with a well defined goal. It is absurd that they have the ability to monitor our internet activities so effectively and precisely. I assume they have an army of little old ladies, inhabiting medium income housing shared with a plethora of house cats, who spends endless hours watching Judge Judy, eating pharmacueticals, and collecting our pictures, videos and postings... for the cause.
> 
> Here in lies my concerns and the basis for my interactions with Jager and his supporters on this forum. I am in no way condemning his methods or his contributions to the ag industry. And currently, have no reason in particular to represent myself as a "dogger" or hog hunter in general. But I have since the beginning, and as someone has already stated, questioned why so much time is devoted to the subject of feral swine control for farmers on a forum dedicated to sport hunting? Wouldn't this issue be better served if offered on a forum for farming and agriculture concerns? True, their exists some familiarity and shared methods between the business of controlling hogs and the sport of hunting hogs. As does that which inevitably exists between hunting deer for sport and the killing of deer with spotlights under the guise of a state issued crop depradation permits. Should we also provide space on this forum to the individuals employed in this type of deer harvesting? To post their pictures and related stories?
> 
> No pot stirring intended, but I see a defined line between sport hunting and the business of swine/cervid control serving the agriculture industry. This is not a case of hog doggers hating on the thermal imaging crowd, as it has been pointed out that many doggers function specifically for control purposes from time to time. The friction (most of it anyway imo) stems from the fact that on more than one occasion various individuals choose to lay a great deal of blame on this group for the distribution of hogs across the state, and to openly question both the effectiveness and sincerity in their efforts to control swine populations. I think this is unfair due to the fact that it hasn't always been illegal to relocate hogs and just a generation ago the entire state abounded with free range livestock which probably had as much to do with the distribution of feral swine than anything else. Heck, if you get right down to it, it was the dang spanish who started this whole mess so I reckon we need to be hating on DeSoto and Ponce de Leon and the rest of them pre-colonial pig pushers?
> 
> Bottom line? I just can't fathom any benefit in creating a rift within the forum that shouldn't exist to begin with. Once it is acknowledged that yes some tools are shared, that the  harvest of feral swine is generally a shared goal, and for the most part, it should be virtually impossible to totally eradicate the hogs statewide and deny those individuals who pursue them for traditional sport purposes. From this point I fail to see any comparison whatsoever and maintain that any further discussion within a hunting forum as nothing more than additional opportunities to further the agendas of the antis who are hacking away at our liberties and traditions with the ax we handed them.



That's some scary stuff. Well funded,organized crazies are the worst kind.


----------



## Ihunt

I have to a ask a question.This is to numerous people who have made the comment that hogs are GODS animals.First,I AGREE WITH YOU......but what about termites,fire ants, boll weevils,etc.The list can go on and on.Is this because you can eat most hogs? All pest are killed and WASTED but we don't make issues or statements concerning the death of other animals like we do hogs.I am not trying to start an argument.I would like to understand how it's ok to kill and waste one but not the other.If this is off topic I apologize and will/can make a new thread.


----------



## Jester896

That is the very reason I have been hesitant in the past about posting pictures of what we do on the internet until now with some persuasion and ask our group to try and not show items in a location to pinpoint it or people as to be recognizable.  I really do not need picture to show me how successful I have been.  It is one thing for ‘Good Ol Boys’ to post or brag with a hog or two but when you start taking out large numbers you are going to attract way more attention.


----------



## buddylee

The whole problem with having an intelligent conversation is there are not enough intelligent people on here to have one. Jager is doing a service and making money=SMART. I wish I could. Farmers need hogs gone off their land, nothing else. There is alot of money made from hunting but we all pay for farm crop damage thru higher food cost. In a perfect world we could all get along if everyone used their brains, but that doesn't seem likely because people are SELFISH. It would be nice to handle the situation before some one else handles it for us.


----------



## Ihunt

Well said buddlylee and gnarlyone.Both replys were good ones imo.


----------



## big country rnr

Ihunt said:


> I have to a ask a question.This is to numerous people who have made the comment that hogs are GODS animals.First,I AGREE WITH YOU......but what about termites,fire ants, boll weevils,etc.The list can go on and on.Is this because you can eat most hogs? All pest are killed and WASTED but we don't make issues or statements concerning the death of other animals like we do hogs.I am not trying to start an argument.I would like to understand how it's ok to kill and waste one but not the other.If this is off topic I apologize and will/can make a new thread.


You are comparing insects to animals! Same as apples to oranges! But if you want to eat ants and boll weevils you go ahead and get ur fill! I bet you know the difference real quick!
And as said before all people dont follow game laws but that dont make us all bad! And i believe you can relocate a hog within 5 miles with no blood test!


----------



## olcowman

buddylee said:


> The whole problem with having an intelligent conversation is there are not enough intelligent people on here to have one.



Okay.... which side of that line do you fall under?

I'm sorry, but this sort of remark (and I have been guilty as anyone on here) is what fuels this debate and gets everyone's bristles up. There has always been controversy among the different styles and factions associated with all forms of hunting. And we probably aint all going to ever meet up and sit around a campfire holding hands and singing kumbaya anytime soon. But I am going to try and keep my responses civil and hard as it is on me, I ain't going to post no more snide, mean spirited remarks. I am making a effort to ask questions and try to see from where some of the others on here draw their own opinions and views.

Heck, we may all end up still po'd but I am making it a point to prevent one of my posts from being the one that shuts the thread down. Besides, I got to thinking and I realized they ain't no way in the world I could whoop all the folks that I've made mad on these forums if they all caught up with me at once!


----------



## Jester896

buddylee said:


> The whole problem with having an intelligent conversation is there are not enough intelligent people on here to have one. Jager is doing a service and making money=SMART. I wish I could. Farmers need hogs gone off their land, nothing else. There is alot of money made from hunting but we all pay for farm crop damage thru higher food cost. In a perfect world we could all get along if everyone used their brains, but that doesn't seem likely because people are SELFISH. It would be nice to handle the situation before some one else handles it for us.



Just because some people on here misspell words, speak in half sentences, write in lower case, or all uppercase doesn’t mean they are not intelligent people.  I really don’t have a problem with Jager making money…just wish the playing field was level.  A farmer gets paid from his yield.  If the yields are low it drives the prices up if it is high the prices fall.  What is the big deal about helping farmers…sounds a littleon the unselfish side to me.


----------



## JAGER

Scott Cain said:


> It seemed to me the other day you said you had met with the hsus and Peta and they had no problem with killing hogs. Why are you worried about it now?



Really? This is your deduction from my thread? You don't see I am trying to find some common ground to stop all the fighting and arguing among hunting methods? I thought a common enemy like HSUS and PETA among both farmers and hunters might spark an ember of hope. 

Keeping everyone on topic is like herding cats. There are too many Alpha male personalities here to be productive. We can't even agree on three simple topics to build a foundation.

1.) Can both sides agree there is a major difference between sport hunting pine plantations owned by timber companies and control hunting Georgia farms experiencing crop damage? 

2.) Can both sides agree it is impossible to permanently eradicate feral hogs from Georgia farmland via any hunting and trapping methods due to immigration? 

3.) Can both sides agree there is an important need for high-volume hog control methods to protect Georgia farmland?

There is obviously no need (or desire) for hog hunters on this forum to take any responsibility for educating the public about crop damage, hog hunting and hog control issues. Let's just stick our head in the sand and let the animal rights celebrities and environmentalist groups  educate the public about farming and hunting. The Farm Bureau report is not important at all, right? No need to take any action, guys. We'll just "react" to a public who does not understand our sport or business after it is too late. Everything will be just fine.

---JAGER


----------



## Jester896

JAGER said:


> There are too many Alpha male personalities here to be productive.
> 
> ---JAGER



And as long as you are the Alpha on top it's all good...I'm beginning to see


----------



## SELFBOW

Jester896 said:


> And as long as you are the Alpha on top it's all good...I'm beginning to see



He wants to be the leader. He wants to known as "The Hog Guy" in all the USA.


----------



## big country rnr

JAGER said:


> 1.) Can both sides agree there is a major difference between sport hunting pine plantations owned by timber companies and control hunting Georgia farms experiencing crop damage?
> 
> 2.) Can both sides agree it is impossible to permanently eradicate feral hogs from Georgia farmland via any hunting and trapping methods due to immigration?
> 
> 3.) Can both sides agree there is an important need for high-volume hog control methods to protect Georgia farmland?
> 
> 
> 
> ---JAGER



1.)YES
2.)no-Whats so different about GA farmland with other places north and south of there .Even tho theres more land and more routes for them to travel from one place to the other and it can get to where you cant find a hog in 100 thousand acres!
3.)Im in the middle on this one! If theres a hog problem the population needs to be cut down .But If it means to go kill every hog that walks and it will just lay and rot ..Thats what i got a problem with!! Maybe you could find ppl to take the hogs before you go hunt so you know it wont be wasted...


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## koyote76

We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States ... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of Humane Society of the US (HSUS), formerly of Friends of Animals and Fund for Animals, Full Cry Magazine, October 1, 1990.

"We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. . One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding." Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of Humane Society of the US, formerly of Friends of Animals and Fund for Animals, Animal People, May, 1993

"My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture." JP Goodwin, employed at the Humane Society of the US, formerly at Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, as quoted on AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996


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## buddylee

Jester. I am not talking about un-educated people. I ain't the best speller either ! I am referring to the ignorant people who can't see the other side of a conversation without getting angry. I never said helping farmers was a bad thing. I basically said hogs contribute to higher food cost for us all.

Jager, I have spoken with you before and your a very intelligent person with a goal. Most people are leary of your motives because your making money and so they feel your only in it for the money because why would anyone care so much about killing hogs. Maybe try to explain your passion for being so involved and people will relax a little.

Lastly, a few people may wake up and see whats going on but most will continue live in their little world. Our children will reap the rewards of ignorance. If your don't believe me just watch the evening news. The first 5 minutes usually consists of what happens when people stop caring about the world around them. For those of you who care, think about your children or grandchildren, do you want them to enjoy your sport whatever it may be. I want my son to grow up huntin with me.


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## Jester896

buddylee said:


> Jester. I am not talking about un-educated people. I ain't the best speller either ! I am referring to the ignorant people who can't see the other side of a conversation without getting angry. I never said helping farmers was a bad thing. I basically said hogs contribute to higher food cost for us all.
> 
> Jager, I have spoken with you before and your a very intelligent person with a goal. Most people are leary of your motives because your making money and so they feel your only in it for the money because why would anyone care so much about killing hogs. Maybe try to explain your passion for being so involved and people will relax a little.
> 
> Lastly, a few people may wake up and see whats going on but most will continue live in their little world. Our children will reap the rewards of ignorance. If your don't believe me just watch the evening news. The first 5 minutes usually consists of what happens when people stop caring about the world around them. For those of you who care, think about your children or grandchildren, do you want them to enjoy your sport whatever it may be. I want my son to grow up huntin with me.



 excuse me

As far as Jager..as soon as all of the horns stop blowing... I might be able to hear the message.  

Going to go make my own band camp stories until then.


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## gin house

i know the crops are important for the farming families, i respect that but how much georgia produce is sold in wal-mart? i doubt its very little, if any.  look at everything you pick up wal-mart and you'll see that 90% or more of what they sell if from china,  i really dont see how the georgia agriculture could raise the price at all, theres not enough of it to slow the neighboring states and imported produce.    i cant respect the thermal hunting deal, its a money racket,  its not to help the farmer as much as help themselves, i dont dislike them but i cant respect their actions.  when they start taking clients just for cost of shells, i might respect them.   i do believe hogs can be killed out,  ive said this once but deer were almost extinct at one time, they were hunted and poached for their hides to be exported.  i agree hogs reproduce rapidly but they too have predators, wild dogs, coyotes, hawks(little pigs) and more, their survival rate isnt 100% and theres a lot of hogs killed across the state daily, it can happen or can get to where a dog hunter cant come across any because of the population loss.   this is a question for the thermal hunters, if you could rid the state of hogs by saying so, would you?  this will tell you where their priority is, its in their pockets, thats fine but dont preach the help the farmer and bla, bla, bla.  i am a dogger, im for the hog, i dont like the fact that farmers have to deal with hogs but i dont want them gone, like the thermal hunters, i have a lot of money and time in my hobby. i want to keep doin it.  the truth is hard to come by sometimes.  as far as hsus and peta,  koyote, thats a small exerpt but true, it gets a lot more scary when you research it more.  they dont want you to hunt and dont want you to own or use any animal and they'll probably have their way one day with the sorry government and officials we have elect,  if i have to depend on the elected legislature, i give.


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## wpoolxj

It was said above but I will say again. WE must stand TOGETHER or WE will ALL fall apart. My brother and a room mate and I are dealing with humane soc right now. Tifton and Tift Co. is no joke. If your going to argue be sure you know what your talking about some of the things we have been told were false but some was true. We are having a follow up nest week and we are trying to get all OUR ducks in a row if you know what I mean. WE NEED to stick TOGETHER. There is alot of things that Peta and Humane Soc. are trying to do to get hog hunting with dogs shut down. But ALL HUNTERS and FARMERS for that matter need to stick together. But im done rambling. LETS ALL DO THIS TOGETHER.


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## Ihunt

Is there anyone in/running a business that doesn't want to make money?


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## Jester896

No, but business that constantly make false and misleading statements, they are usually not as successful as they could be, and draw a negative light on the entire profession.  And when they start speaking poorly of others involved in the same type of business they end up loosing a great deal of respect from the public.


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## SELFBOW

Ihunt said:


> Is there anyone in/running a business that doesn't want to make money?



No and most will speak negative of some of their competitors and be friends and work together with some as well. I do both.
Jager needs hunters more like "shooters" to make his business successful and his only venue to gain them is thru his continued advertising on here. Since he can't openly advertise he has to create "subject matter" to get his name out there. Therein lies the problem as what he is spewing few want to hear.
His next "mission" should be taking a class in communication 101.
The internet is a great place to gain business however once you get a bad rep it is much harder to repair the damage. Jager is still in the damaging phase and has yet to realize that.
My question to Jager is:
"As hunters Do anyone of us really need your service?"


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## big country rnr

buckbacks said:


> No and most will speak negative of some of their competitors and be friends and work together with some as well. I do both.
> Jager needs hunters more like "shooters" to make his business successful and his only venue to gain them is thru his continued advertising on here. Since he can't openly advertise he has to create "subject matter" to get his name out there. Therein lies the problem as what he is spewing few want to hear.
> His next "mission" should be taking a class in communication 101.
> The internet is a great place to gain business however once you get a bad rep it is much harder to repair the damage. Jager is still in the damaging phase and has yet to realize that.
> My question to Jager is:
> "As hunters Do anyone of us really need your service?"



Sounds like you hit the nail on the head!!!


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## wpoolxj

Im not big on shooting fish in a barrel either but have I said anything to jager about it? no. I also havnt complained about him advertising. If its not right it will come back to him in the long run. But its not my business nor is it really yalls. Yall just freaking drop it and stick together before we loose all our rights to hunt.


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## big country rnr

wpoolxj said:


> Im not big on shooting fish in a barrel either but have I said anything to jager about it? no. I also havnt complained about him advertising. If its not right it will come back to him in the long run. But its not my business nor is it really yalls. Yall just freaking drop it and stick together before we loose all our rights to hunt.



I think we are sticking up for each other..There are rules here and there are ppl that bend and try to get around the rules. They talking about a single person .Not the sport!
He made this bed now he has to lay in it!


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## Ihunt

*You are comparing insects to animals*

But as stated in earlier post.....are they not God's animals?or insect....etc.If people are worried about killing and not eating,should it matter.For the record,I have no problem killing any PEST and not eating it.


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## olcowman

wpoolxj said:


> Im not big on shooting fish in a barrel either but have I said anything to jager about it? no. I also havnt complained about him advertising. If its not right it will come back to him in the long run. But its not my business nor is it really yalls. Yall just freaking drop it and stick together before we loose all our rights to hunt.



You are missing the entire point here all together. this is not about whether Jager should be shooting hogs with high tech gear and there is no question among those here that there does exist a feral swine problem in some areas across the state. We are all past that even though it keeps coming up over and over to divert our attention from the real issue at hand. Which in my opinion is one question "What is to be gained by the sport hunting community by openly supporting and associating ourselves with the *business* of animal control for the ag industry?" (and consequently what could be the downside) By debating the subject, allowing it to be posted among our threads on this forum, when it is profiled in a hunting magazine, etc. are we not appearing to endorse this behaviour and accept it as a part of traditional sport hunting?

We have spent decades distancing ourselves from the wholesale slaughter by the 'market hunters', a lack of discipline and restraint that remains to be a problem with a few within our ranks, and the general disregard for ethics and the poor public perception that has plagued hunters for generations. It is up to us to continue to police within our ranks and maintain a level of integrity concerning what we represent to the general public and how we are portrayed.

 Mr Cain pointed out something I had not thought about in years, and that was the fact that you *can* eradicate hogs in certain areas. We saw it transpire and perhaps contributed to it. (Scott more than me cause his dogs were always a heap better than mine) Furthermore if you read historical accounts of the nuimber of deer, red wolves, and turkey that existed in this state when the colonials landed here (strong numbers that were encountered thru the following century as the europeans began to spread out) and consider the fact that they were virtually all wiped out in less than 100 years. I just ain't ready to say  that something can't be eradicated at this point, and history agrees with me.


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## Jester896

Once again olcowman your elegance is music to my eyes.

Here is another twist on things…
Suppose the "Elitist" business plan calls for unsuspecting “Sport Hunters” to post their pictures of dogging hogs and the masses they kill to show it as inhuman mass killings to PETA and HSUS and by labeling threads on the internet with their initials to make it easier for them to find.  And in the light that it brings to "Dogging" he has his window to protest that his elite way with his far superior equipment is the more human way to eradicate Georgia’s hog problems and he will be the only “fair game” for effective hog control.  Meanwhile the “sport hunter” and its counter part “dogging for hog control” are left out in the cold, which is more than likely his big picture business plan.  If you ignore a gnat it will eventually kill itself or somebody will squash it.


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## sammy33

U know what..there is so many diffrent things people have started talking about on this forum that its hard to keep up...everyone has to meet somewhere in the middle.i am sure there is common ground somewhere..everyone has made very good points..maybe if u guys tried veiwing it from the other persons eyes it might help out..on here i have heard arguing and fighting about diffrent hunting styles and what other people do..have u guys ever thought about inviting each other on a hunt and let that person see what u do and how u do it..it might be a little better to undrstand when u see it first hand..just a thought i am not in this fight just trying to help..cause i can tell u even if i did not like the way someone hunted i would go and i am sure i would love it and find out somthing new that i did not know before...we all got to stand together and learn to get alone no matter who u are or how u hunt...respect is not earned by talk it is earned by showing and i am still earning peoples respect including  my dads and papas everyday..they always told me to never judge someone by what i hear but by what i see for myself..respect is earned over time and no matter what always give it...if u stop and  think about it real hard we were all rasied that way..and when u put down the way someone hunts or the way they do buisness or landowners for how they choose to handle things with their land..then that makes everyone get angry and hurt..so  next time invite someone to go..u will be supprised how much of a diffrence it makes and how much fun u can have..i  say this because i have invited people with me  many times...and though we did not always agree we found that we did do alot of things alike and that made things between us a whole lot better..


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## Jester896

sammy33 said:


> ...we all got to stand together and learn to get alone no matter who u are or how u hunt...respect is not earned by talk it is earned by showing and i am still earning peoples respect including  my dads and papas everyday..







BTW.. I am sure they both do..


Well the Saints won the Super Bowl..I'm sure it is frozen over...maybe this could happen too


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## sammy33

thanks but while i was on here aaron and dylan left me and went hog hunting..u think yall have problems..wait till they get back..i will have them  that i dont


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## Ihunt

olcowman,I agree with your last post but has anything as prolific as a wild hog ever been eradicated with hunting?Most animals do not have a breeding cycle like a hog.I think a you can put a hurting on hogs in isolated places but I just don't think they can be wiped out.A good dogger,night hunter,and trapper can probably clean up a farm but the ones on the next farm will repopulate it.


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## JackJack77

Is there an organization solely assigned to Hog Doggers to preserve its heritage and rights? I would like to join it if there is one.


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## notnksnemor

Jester896 said:


> Once again olcowman your elegance is music to my eyes.
> 
> Here is another twist on things…
> Suppose the "Elitist" business plan calls for unsuspecting “Sport Hunters” to post their pictures of dogging hogs and the masses they kill to show it as inhuman mass killings to PETA and HSUS and by labeling threads on the internet with their initials to make it easier for them to find.  And in the light that it brings to "Dogging" he has his window to protest that his elite way with his far superior equipment is the more human way to eradicate Georgia’s hog problems and he will be the only “fair game” for effective hog control.  Meanwhile the “sport hunter” and its counter part “dogging for hog control” are left out in the cold, which is more than likely his big picture business plan.  If you ignore a gnat it will eventually kill itself or somebody will squash it.




Dude,
I think you're right.
And Jager shot JFK in'63 with his ultra-secret, at the time, equipment and blamed it on Oswald because he had dogs......
The Warren commission never made the hog connection.......


----------



## Todd E

buckbacks said:


> No and most will speak negative of some of their competitors and be friends and work together with some as well. I do both.Pot callin the kettle black, eh? Have you not seen where he has worked hand and hand with referring doggers?
> Jager needs hunters more like "shooters" to make his business successful and his only venue to gain them is thru his continued advertising on here. Since he can't openly advertise he has to create "subject matter" to get his name out there. Therein lies the problem as what he is spewing few want to hear.Even before Jager posted his first post here, he was booked for the whole year. Ya really thinks he needs this for advertisement?
> His next "mission" should be taking a class in communication 101.His communication here has been far more better than most sport hunters.
> The internet is a great place to gain business however once you get a bad rep it is much harder to repair the damage. Jager is still in the damaging phase and has yet to realize that.Seems to me the only ones with the bad taste in their mouth are the sport hunters. I can only guess as to why you always stay in this fight.
> My question to Jager is:
> "As hunters Do anyone of us really need your service?"Yes, some do and from the looks of it......they have a great time doing it. Shoot fire........looks as if some members here jumped on the bandwagon, too. Doggers included.



Jager and his services are not going away whether you want them to or not. If I had never experienced doggin in my life or shooting them............and read all this mush here.......I'd say the "sport hunters" as ya'll call them are the ones doing the most damage with their posts on this board. It is revealed in every sporter vs Jager thread. From what I have seen, he keeps his cool. Ya'll blow up and can't even answer his three questions. What.....only two or three posts answering them with many replies of spew.

That is sad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jester896

Todd E said:


> Jager and his services are not going away whether you want them to or not. If I had never experienced doggin in my life or shooting them............and read all this mush here.......I'd say the "sport hunters" as ya'll call them are the ones doing the most damage with their posts on this board. It is revealed in every sporter vs Jager thread. From what I have seen, he keeps his cool. Ya'll blow up and can't even answer his three questions. What.....only two or three posts answering them with many replies of spew.
> 
> That is sad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Todd E...where have you been?  As long as things are going his way he does.  He is just as guilty as the others.  If it is not about him and his Elitists, it is not the way it should be done.  It may appear that way in some cases when it is 100-1.  Personally I believe a farmer would be better off with both methods.  Chase um out of the fields at night then go in after them in the light.  Just as with any military action when something retreats you go after it and keep pushing it back it will eventually concede.  Ask any farmer if they have seen hogs on their place while they are in the fields on a tractor.


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## Jester896

Have you not seen where he has worked hand and hand with referring doggers?


Who are theses Doggers buckbacks speak of?  Where are their pictures?   Just more horn noise


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## outlaw72

Transporting wild hogs.Hawgs tested by the state and have a tag placed in ear can not be released and if moved from one bay pen to another have to have a permit to do so and a department of ag worker will check the permit upon arrival.You can sell to a state licensed kill pen (pay hunt)


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## outlaw72

Transporting wild hogs.Hogs tested by the state and have a tag placed in ear can not be released and if moved from one bay pen to another have to have a permit to do so and a department of ag worker will check the permit upon arrival.You can sell to a state licensed kill pen (pay hunt)


----------



## SELFBOW

Jester896 said:


> Have you not seen where he has worked hand and hand with referring doggers?
> 
> 
> Who are theses Doggers buckbacks speak of?  Where are their pictures?   Just more horn noise



I never said anything about doggers


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## JackJack77

Jester896 said:


> Todd E...where have you been?  As long as things are going his way he does.  He is just as guilty as the others.  If it is not about him and his Elitists, it is not the way it should be done.  It may appear that way in some cases when it is 100-1.  *Personally I believe a farmer would be better off with both methods.  Chase um out of the fields at night then go in after them in the light.  *Just as with any military action when something retreats you go after it and keep pushing it back it will eventually concede.  Ask any farmer if they have seen hogs on their place while they are in the fields on a tractor.



X2!


If Jager didnt make the money he is making would this argument even be in existence? I also dont think he has to use this website for advertisment when he has his own website along with countless videos on Youtube.


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## JackJack77

I think this whole thing has got out of hand to be honest, WE (Sport Hunters/Control Hunters/Control hunters that Profit) need to be doing things like PETA and HSUS, like gathering information to use against them when it comes to game time, because from the looks of it they (PETA & HSUS) already have their A game ready and prepared!


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## BobKat

i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.


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## Jester896

buckbacks said:


> I never said anything about doggers



Got it from post #104...sorry...thought it quoted you.


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## gin house

JackJack77 said:


> I think this whole thing has got out of hand to be honest, WE (Sport Hunters/Control Hunters/Control hunters that Profit) need to be doing things like PETA and HSUS, like gathering information to use against them when it comes to game time, because from the looks of it they (PETA & HSUS) already have their A game ready and prepared!



  peta and hsus have been gameplanning for this for years, they are underestimated strongly by most.  They have more money to lobby with than youd believe.  they also have hired killers on the payroll, google michael coronado, i believe that is his name, they are crooked and corupt but are back heavily by hollywood and politics.  as far as posting pics on here of hogs and dogs, they will get whatever information they want,  they actually were spectators in cockfighting rings all over the us to document it and learn names of other participants to be charged.  its worth fighting for but the outlook isnt good.  to them hunting is just a stepping stone on the way to taking your right away from owning any animal, even a goldfish, they will start with the worst forms of animal use and work their way back.  i personally dont like dogfighting but i think its peoples rights to do as they will, when you start taking these rights away and judging someone for dogfighting you are upholding the hsus and peta, dont tell me that dogfightning is different, ive heard that excuse,  is a dogfight any more cruel than a pack of dogs killing a hog and tearing his parts off?????? i say no but others will say yes, therefore there is divisions of animal users, thats why peta has had tons of sucess, to one is animal cruely but upholds what entertains him, theres where the problem lies.


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## gin house

i just backtracked, post #112 proves my point, i didnt see it before i posted but after the fact saw it.


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## Jester896

BobKat said:


> i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.



Hope you never get the pleasure of meeting a police dog  don't see PETA after them tho


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## bigbird1

Jester896 said:


> Have you not seen where he has worked hand and hand with referring doggers?
> 
> 
> Who are theses Doggers buckbacks speak of? Where are their pictures?  Just more horn noise


 

Here we are, before myself and kornbread got into the night vision business we were referred to the farmers by Jager all the time. Jager speaks all the time about different control methods for different situations included trapping, doggers, thermal/nv and traditional methods as a combined effort.


----------



## gin house

BobKat said:


> i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.



im dumbfounded when i hear someone compare a hog or any animal to a human.  sounds like a statement from peta but watch close and you'll see the same things from so-called hunters and sportsmen.


----------



## Jester896

bigbird1 said:


> Here we are, before myself and kornbread got into the night vision business we were referred to the farmers by Jager all the time. Jager speaks all the time about different control methods for different situations included trapping, doggers, thermal/nv and traditional methods as a combined effort.



Oh good...glad to see he refers some of the best
...meant that exactly as it reads...


----------



## BobKat

gin house said:


> peta and hsus have been gameplanning for this for years, they are underestimated strongly by most.  They have more money to lobby with than youd believe.  they also have hired killers on the payroll, google michael coronado, i believe that is his name, they are crooked and corupt but are back heavily by hollywood and politics.  as far as posting pics on here of hogs and dogs, they will get whatever information they want,  they actually were spectators in cockfighting rings all over the us to document it and learn names of other participants to be charged.  its worth fighting for but the outlook isnt good.  to them hunting is just a stepping stone on the way to taking your right away from owning any animal, even a goldfish, they will start with the worst forms of animal use and work their way back.  i personally dont like dogfighting but i think its peoples rights to do as they will, when you start taking these rights away and judging someone for dogfighting you are upholding the hsus and peta, dont tell me that dogfightning is different, ive heard that excuse,  is a dogfight any more cruel than a pack of dogs killing a hog and tearing his parts off?????? i say no but others will say yes, therefore there is divisions of animal users, thats why peta has had tons of sucess, to one is animal cruely but upholds what entertains him, theres where the problem lies.



im all for preserving our rights but in my opinion, if you are going to kill an animal kill it to eat it, or if its injured. dont use other animals to kill it dogfighting is wrong no matter how you look at it. its like making people fight for thier lives its not right and i see no reason to let a dog tear a hog to peices and then for a hunter to get mad over it when the hog kills there dog, the hog wants to live of course he will kill the dog dont be stupid. just shoot the dang hog with a gun and kill it dont have a dog do it for you. and try and give the hog meat to someone who needs it donate it or something dont waste it.


----------



## gin house

bigbird1 said:


> Here we are, before myself and kornbread got into the night vision business we were referred to the farmers by Jager all the time. Jager speaks all the time about different control methods for different situations included trapping, doggers, thermal/nv and traditional methods as a combined effort.



looks like a conflict of intrest to me, letting you put your hand in the cookiejar. you sure he didnt get you the hookup to show the farmer that his way was more productive and let you prove it for him? just sayin, maybe he truely is a good guy, who knows, i dont personally know him and wont down him.


----------



## BobKat

gin house said:


> im dumbfounded when i hear someone compare a hog or any animal to a human.  sounds like a statement from peta but watch close and you'll see the same things from so-called hunters and sportsmen.



yeah well some animals are smarter than most people they just cant speak in a language that we understand i dont agree with PETA fully but we should stand up for abusing animals, we stand up for people being abused, we should do the same for animals. i think this is what seperates the True sportsmen and hunters from the so called ones. its like shooting a fawn and passing up the big buck its dumb. or killing a jake and letting a long beard walk it makes no sense no matter how you look at it.


----------



## gin house

BobKat said:


> im all for preserving our rights but in my opinion, if you are going to kill an animal kill it to eat it, or if its injured. dont use other animals to kill it dogfighting is wrong no matter how you look at it. its like making people fight for thier lives its not right and i see no reason to let a dog tear a hog to peices and then for a hunter to get mad over it when the hog kills there dog, the hog wants to live of course he will kill the dog dont be stupid. just shoot the dang hog with a gun and kill it dont have a dog do it for you. and try and give the hog meat to someone who needs it donate it or something dont waste it.



 i didnt say i liked dogfighting, i personally loved cockfighting but have quit since the hsus and peta made it illegal in louisianna and have made trouble for honest people.  anyways, the general public has been soften thru the years to where animals have feelings and this and that, we have put ourselves in the shape were in, this post from bobkat shows that once again. it is a trickle down affect, stop dogfighting, stop cockfighting, stop hunting, stop rodeos, stop animal testing(peta has already more less be found to have contract killed lab workers in califonia), stop animal ownership, stop animal use.  they feed on one group to down the group above, you dont have to divide and conquer, leave it to us to selfdestruct.


----------



## BobKat

gin house said:


> i didnt say i liked dogfighting, i personally loved cockfighting but have quit since the hsus and peta made it illegal in louisianna and have made trouble for honest people.  anyways, the general public has been soften thru the years to where animals have feelings and this and that, we have put ourselves in the shape were in, this post from bobkat shows that once again. it is a trickle down affect, stop dogfighting, stop cockfighting, stop hunting, stop rodeos, stop animal testing(peta has already more less be found to have contract killed lab workers in califonia), stop animal ownership, stop animal use.  they feed on one group to down the group above, you dont have to divide and conquer, leave it to us to selfdestruct.




i didnt say that its wrong to own animals but they do have feelings and they are smart. have you ever had a pet dog and been sick and that dog checks on you they do have feelings. rodeos are ok in my opinion i just dont like it where people treat animals badly like fighting them and such as that. useing them to bay hogs is cruel in my opinion but if your going to do it dont post it on the internet, i also think that animals shouldnt be made to perform like in the circus or seaworld. it sad to watch an animal treated like that. they do have feelings and personalitys, we shouldnt forget that. and you can say what you want about me i just dont understand the point in having animals treated that way and noone standing up for them.


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## SELFBOW

BobKat said:


> i didnt say that its wrong to own animals but they do have feelings and they are smart. have you ever had a pet dog and been sick and that dog checks on you they do have feelings. rodeos are ok in my opinion i just dont like it where people treat animals badly like fighting them and such as that. useing them to bay hogs is cruel in my opinion but if your going to do it dont post it on the internet, i also think that animals shouldnt be made to perform like in the circus or seaworld. it sad to watch an animal treated like that. they do have feelings and personalitys, we shouldnt forget that. and you can say what you want about me i just dont understand the point in having animals treated that way and noone standing up for them.


What circus did this pic come from? Not trying to be mean but you are using animals to your advantage here...


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## BobKat

buckbacks said:


> What circus did this pic come from? Not trying to be mean but you are using animals to your advantage here...



yeah do you realize that show animals are treated like royalty to. that pig was treated better than me and eat better than me to. and i didnt force her to fight or to do anything she didnt want to do if she didnt want to walk then i didnt make her do it. i just dont like people makeing animals mean on purpose and makeing them fight and then killing them when they lose like mike vick did. i love animals and im more of an ASPCA person than PETA. i just dont see any reason to use an animal like that. from what i understand you have a dog chase a hog and pin it to the ground and sometimes kill it and in the process the dog can be killed, my question is why? why not just shoot it with a gun like we do deer why put the animals thru that? also for those who think animals are not smart and dont have feelings, that pig was smart enough to know if she walked around a pin for me she would get a treat she was smart enough to know how to get out of her pen, and she didnt like to be left alone and if another pig tried to hurt me she wouldnt let them. that pigs name was spot and she loved me and i loved her she was my friend and my pet and showing was my life. im not saying give animals the right to vote im saying give them a choice to live and dont mistreat them.  i dont care if you think that im dumb or soft hearted or what you think about me, i stand up for what i believe in and its my opinion just as you have your own.  and spot was not in a circus i didnt dress her up and make her do flips and stunts for peoples pleasure, we worked together to get what we wanted it was a partnership


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## bigbird1

gin house said:


> looks like a conflict of intrest to me, letting you put your hand in the cookiejar. you sure he didnt get you the hookup to show the farmer that his way was more productive and let you prove it for him? just sayin, maybe he truely is a good guy, who knows, i dont personally know him and wont down him.


 

Why do you think he has other motives by referring doggers as another control method? Do I think his method is more productive than doggers, sure, some of the time. As he said many times before here on this very forum and I agree, every method has its place and time(trapping, dogging, thermal/nv and traditional) But he referred us for two reasons, how we conducted ourselves on a public forum and our reputation as guys who can get the job done and get it done without damaging the relationship between the farmer and the hunter. As he has said before he would like to work with more doggers, just for the simple fact that it is hard to shoot every hog in the field, this is when a dogger coming in the next morning would be great asset to finish up the job. Two different control methods working towards a common goal for the farmer and having a little fun along the way.


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## tnhillbilly

BobKat said:


> i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.


I don't think it is legal to use night vision on deer. and you would be a very good candidate for peta president! are you serious with this post? do you even hunt? or relize what you are saying?


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## koyote76

BobKat said:


> i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.




if you have never used dogs on hunt then you dont need to be throwing your opinion on the matter. due to the fact your opinion is misformed and skewed to what you think it is without truthfully knowing anything about the sport. you have already contradicted yourself in your post. im not attacking you or picking on you just telling you that your wrong. it is not dog fighting by no means. and mostly the dogs do not kill the pig the hunters do. if it wasnt for dogs hunting with humans this country would have had alot harder time being developed due to the dog helping the man find food for his family especially when appalchian mountains were being setteled. it wasnt dog fighting then and its not dog fighting now.

dog fighting is stacking two dogs to kill each other. its very inhumane and that is what needs to abolished.

for your information i treat my dogs with very very much respect and so do the people on here. we spend more money on our dogs then your avg pet owner whos dog never leave the house. we feed them high quailty feed not the crap you find at walmart. if we followed your rules and didnt hunt our dogs we would being doing our dogs an injustice. so many ppl think we force our dogs to hunt like a parent who forces thier kid to play a sport. no they love it. not just any dog makes a hog dog. and no matter how much you love your dog or pet they are not humans. yes you might think they are smarter then humans, especially the ones that have been filling you with lies but if you say you dont completely agree with peta that means you agree with them on some apsect. if peta abolish's dog hunting very soon they will abolish hunting all together. dont think it cant happen becasue it can. please dont sit her on this forum and call your self a hunter but put down other hunters. i dont agree with all hunting tactics. are the ppl who shoot hogs with traditional bows ethical. many times they only wound the animal because the weapon is not powerfull enough to deliver a instant kill. but i dont want to abolish it heck ive done it and it is a thrill and i respect that tactic but you can see how the coin can so easily be flipped.

here we are bickering to each other about thermals. and we have a peta on boad on our own forum telling us we are dog fighting savages who not only put our dogs in danger but also have no respect for them. someone whos ideas are based on here say. peta is coming down on us. its here its on GON of all places. please stop seperating ourselves for once and fight peta or else we will be bickering whos fault it was that we are no longer allowed to hunt with our dogs or hunt period.

bobkat you have every right to be here. but alot of us HUNTERS, doggers or not are trying to unite and fight the good fight against peta and other crazed radicals. please do not post how you hate hunting dogs on a thread thats trying to preserve hunting. there are many other forums that peta has that would be willing to agree with you but beware not to say you have pets or hunt becasue they will condem you. i hope you realize we are just good ppl with great dogs who dont want the govt or other ppl telling us what we can and cant do with our dogs. please dont try to stir the pot even more then you already have.

thankyou and god bless


----------



## gin house

BobKat said:


> i didnt say that its wrong to own animals but they do have feelings and they are smart. have you ever had a pet dog and been sick and that dog checks on you they do have feelings. rodeos are ok in my opinion i just dont like it where people treat animals badly like fighting them and such as that. useing them to bay hogs is cruel in my opinion but if your going to do it dont post it on the internet, i also think that animals shouldnt be made to perform like in the circus or seaworld. it sad to watch an animal treated like that. they do have feelings and personalitys, we shouldnt forget that. and you can say what you want about me i just dont understand the point in having animals treated that way and noone standing up for them.


    im not saying anything bad about you, im just saying that a lot of the general public see things the way you do. you say you are for ASPCA? thats pretty much peta with a pretty face. you believe in all that mess but you own animals? that will have to change when you graduate to PETA.  You obviously know nothing of any animal fighting, dogs(ive never seen a dogfight and wouldnt be interested in it) are conditiones and trained, not forced.  cockfighting, you cant force two roosters to fight, they will meet head high and shuffle to the ground, aint no forcing, animals arent as weak minded as most humans, thats the scary thing.   animals shouldnt perform in a circus or seaworld but its ok to perform for you in a pen for a treat?????  animals are animals, they dont have a soul, they go back to the dust, they were put here for us to have dominion over, thats what the bible says(dont know if you believe or not)  im not gonna argue common sense and not downing you, the general public has come to be what it is,  fact, did you know george washington, jefferson davis, stonewall jackson all fought roosters, abraham lincoln was a referee, hence the name honest abe, they wont tell you that in schoolbooks but the facts are out there.   these were presidents and founding fathers that made it able for us to be here now, what would they think about peoples rights being trampled and the weak minded animal huggers, dont get me wrong, i baby my dogs but i understand an animal is just that, an animal, not a human and nowhere near as important.


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## gin house

bigbird1 said:


> Why do you think he has other motives by referring doggers as another control method? Do I think his method is more productive than doggers, sure, some of the time. As he said many times before here on this very forum and I agree, every method has its place and time(trapping, dogging, thermal/nv and traditional) But he referred us for two reasons, how we conducted ourselves on a public forum and our reputation as guys who can get the job done and get it done without damaging the relationship between the farmer and the hunter. As he has said before he would like to work with more doggers, just for the simple fact that it is hard to shoot every hog in the field, this is when a dogger coming in the next morning would be great asset to finish up the job. Two different control methods working towards a common goal for the farmer and having a little fun along the way.



i dont know him, i dont down him like i said.  speculation is worthless, he may be a good guy, if the things you state about him are true then im sure he is.  im just mainly messing with you and a few others on here, i have my opinions as to what i think but id be lying if i said i didnt like to ruffle a few feathers just to sit back and laugh, dont take me too serious.


----------



## bigbird1

gin house said:


> i dont know him, i dont down him like i said. speculation is worthless, he may be a good guy, if the things you state about him are true then im sure he is. im just mainly messing with you and a few others on here, i have my opinions as to what i think but id be lying if i said i didnt like to ruffle a few feathers just to sit back and laugh, dont take me too serious.


 
This whole thermal vs. doggers lately is taking a toll on this forum and its members, drawing a division right down the middle. I'm not taking your poking very serious and agree with many points you have brought to light in the past. But, the time is now to unite or the sport or whatever everyone else wants to call it will cease to exist in our lifetime.


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## koyote76

bobkat you made me more concerned about what is really goin on out there in this crazed world. i could type till my fingers fell off pointing out every flaw in every sentence you have typed. what made you come on this thread and post? are you a peta spy lol.

but im going to ignore you. i hope you realize the truth of the matter and realize that peta would look at the pic of your hog on the interent and say that girl is keeping that pig in a jail cell and beating it due to its scratches on its back. and no matter how you talked till you were blue in the face about how much you love him they wouldnt ever be persuaded and condem you as a cruel person.

to me its just a hog in a pen that looks tastey. if it were mine i would be smoking him for a good ol pig pickin. 

i hope you can realize the truth and fight with us to save not only our sport but yours. and also the right to have livestock and pets.


----------



## gin house

koyote76 said:


> if you have never used dogs on hunt then you dont need to be throwing your opinion on the matter. due to the fact your opinion is misformed and skewed to what you think it is without truthfully knowing anything about the sport. you have already contradicted yourself in your post. im not attacking you or picking on you just telling you that your wrong. it is not dog fighting by no means. and mostly the dogs do not kill the pig the hunters do. if it wasnt for dogs hunting with humans this country would have had alot harder time being developed due to the dog helping the man find food for his family especially when appalchian mountains were being setteled. it wasnt dog fighting then and its not dog fighting now.
> 
> dog fighting is stacking two dogs to kill each other. its very inhumane and that is what needs to abolished.
> 
> for your information i treat my dogs with very very much respect and so do the people on here. we spend more money on our dogs then your avg pet owner whos dog never leave the house. we feed them high quailty feed not the crap you find at walmart. if we followed your rules and didnt hunt our dogs we would being doing our dogs an injustice. so many ppl think we force our dogs to hunt like a parent who forces thier kid to play a sport. no they love it. not just any dog makes a hog dog. and no matter how much you love your dog or pet they are not humans. yes you might think they are smarter then humans, especially the ones that have been filling you with lies but if you say you dont completely agree with peta that means you agree with them on some apsect. if peta abolish's dog hunting very soon they will abolish hunting all together. dont think it cant happen becasue it can. please dont sit her on this forum and call your self a hunter but put down other hunters. i dont agree with all hunting tactics. are the ppl who shoot hogs with traditional bows ethical. many times they only wound the animal because the weapon is not powerfull enough to deliver a instant kill. but i dont want to abolish it heck ive done it and it is a thrill and i respect that tactic but you can see how the coin can so easily be flipped.
> 
> here we are bickering to each other about thermals. and we have a peta on boad on our own forum telling us we are dog fighting savages who not only put our dogs in danger but also have no respect for them. someone whos ideas are based on here say. peta is coming down on us. its here its on GON of all places. please stop seperating ourselves for once and fight peta or else we will be bickering whos fault it was that we are no longer allowed to hunt with our dogs or hunt period.
> 
> bobkat you have every right to be here. but alot of us HUNTERS, doggers or not are trying to unite and fight the good fight against peta and other crazed radicals. please do not post how you hate hunting dogs on a thread thats trying to preserve hunting. there are many other forums that peta has that would be willing to agree with you but beware not to say you have pets or hunt becasue they will condem you. i hope you realize we are just good ppl with great dogs who dont want the govt or other ppl telling us what we can and cant do with our dogs. please dont try to stir the pot even more then you already have.
> 
> thankyou and god bless



 koyote, good post but look all the way at the bottom of what you stated, " i hope you realize we are just good ppl with great dogs who dont want the govt or other ppl telling us what we can and cant do with our dogs.'  but above you condemed dogfighting? now say you are not a hunter, youre just lookin in from the outside(general public) what looks worse, a dog fight ot a pack of rough, gritty dogs mauling a hog?   not much a difference.  im not into dogfighting but i do uphold the same statement you made about people dont want the goverment to tell them what they can or cant do with their animals, like it or not, it should be someones choice to fight their dog or not, when you take his right to that you have started a trickle down affect to what has gotten us to where we are now.  step outside the box and look at it but that was a good post none the less.


----------



## koyote76

bigbird1 said:


> This whole thermal vs. doggers lately is taking a toll on this forum and its members, drawing a division right down the middle. I'm not taking your poking very serious and agree with many points you have brought to light in the past. But, the time is now to unite or the sport or whatever everyone else wants to call it will cease to exist in our lifetime.



you are very right. this thermal dogger fight is getting out of hand. it should be put aside to deal with larger issue of protecting our rights. this is creating a big fault on this board. we can all agree that catching killing pigs is fun. so lets protect it instead of help destroy it.


----------



## BobKat

yes i am a hunter i love hunting. i am not a PETA or ASPCA person. i dont believe in starving or beating animals or fighting them or anything like that. animals have souls, they have feelings and they are living beings, and anyone who doesnt think that should really take a look around. i have seen videos of people mistreating animals and its wrong. i am not saying that all hog hunting with dogs are wrong i am saying taht i know of people who have killed there dogs for letting a hog get away, that is stupid and wrong i know people who have had a dog killed by a hog and got mad over it knowing that they take that chance. and i really dont think you should put it on the internet when you do it. Im saying have some respect. and from what i can tell about some of you who have posted you were not raised how i have been. i was raised that animals are to be treated respectfully, that we hunt to eat and survive not just to kill the biggest animal and brag about it. i was taught that you dont beat or abuse and animal wrongly, and that you dont shoot the animal for no reason. iv been hunting since i could walk, and im young yes but in 20 years of being around people and animals i have realized that they do have souls and feelings and they are much smarter than we are in ways. and if you think that hogs are dumb you are really underestimateing them. I hunt and i fish i just do it with respect. and the bible says that we should also care for animals and the earth and use it for our survival. and i can state my opininon just like anyone else. you have misunderstood me, i am for hunting, for our rights. i am agianst cruelty to animals, and against the thought that an animal doesnt deserve to be treated good. again no one has answered my question why use the dogs to hunt the hog? why not shoot it like we hunt deer? maybe i would change my opinion if someone explained this to me. i just honestly dont see the point of it and noone has showed me the point of it yet, you just keep saying im a spokes person for PETA, and im not im a spokes person for my beliefs and i have the right to do so. sorry to offend anyone, but maybe you can explain why you use dogs to hunt hogs?  and by the way please dont judge me for livestock showing if you have no idea what it is. i didnt mean to judge any of you for what you do and im sorry if it came off that way, i just dont see why they should be hunted like this.


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## koyote76

gin you are right. i was so taken back from a peta on this thread i forgot. its not my right to really abolish anything. i dont agree with dog fighting. not my cup of tea. but its not my place to abolish it.

going back to the post what i really meant to say was that the govt should not have a say into what we do with our dogs as long as the dogs are well cared for. but you are right. where do we draw the line? i fully believe mike vick was persecuated to make a statement. he was unfairly judged. if he wasnt the star he was the punishment for his crimes would be considerably less harsh. i dont agree with dog fighting but its not my place to abolish it.


----------



## gin house

bigbird1 said:


> This whole thermal vs. doggers lately is taking a toll on this forum and its members, drawing a division right down the middle. I'm not taking your poking very serious and agree with many points you have brought to light in the past. But, the time is now to unite or the sport or whatever everyone else wants to call it will cease to exist in our lifetime.



  the time is past to unite, i have watched hsus and peta walk over millionaires with millions backing them in lobby support, they have given the nra about all they can handle, they are the new general "citified" public with hollywood and the us government backing them.  they are nothing without the goverment passing laws, they have so much money that the government will do as they say, thats a fact.   like is said, im not for dogfighting but if thats your thing you should have the right, when they got their foot in the door with the first laws governing what you can or cant do with animals the opened pandoras box, money will dictate the future of hunting, animal ownership and the right to own firearms.   Im for uniting but do you think a person should have the right to fight a dog?????   if not, why?  are there levels of so-called cruelty an animal should bare?  hogs feel pain when caught?  then on and on it goes and gives leaway for bullcrap laws and idiots like peta, hsus and aspca.  i think about this stuff a little too much.


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## BobKat

koyote76 said:


> bobkat you made me more concerned about what is really goin on out there in this crazed world. i could type till my fingers fell off pointing out every flaw in every sentence you have typed. what made you come on this thread and post? are you a peta spy lol.
> 
> but im going to ignore you. i hope you realize the truth of the matter and realize that peta would look at the pic of your hog on the interent and say that girl is keeping that pig in a jail cell and beating it due to its scratches on its back. and no matter how you talked till you were blue in the face about how much you love him they wouldnt ever be persuaded and condem you as a cruel person.
> 
> to me its just a hog in a pen that looks tastey. if it were mine i would be smoking him for a good ol pig pickin.
> 
> i hope you can realize the truth and fight with us to save not only our sport but yours. and also the right to have livestock and pets.



im aware of this and thats why i dont fully support those groups and i actually looked up PETA and ASPCA to look into what they support and stand for and i have to say i like the  ASPCA.  dont get me wrong im not saying ban it im saying dont treat animals badly, that video that was posted earlier is what really got to me, the hogs were stressed and had a dog hang on to its ear and why i do not know and noone has yet to explain it to me. and many of my hogs were eventually used for meat, because you get no money for them if you sell them and its awful to leave a pig in a pen when you know it isnt happy. i took care of the animal and treated it good and then used it to survive, i dont think there is anything wrong with that and i didnt want to start a fight but noone has explained this whole concept to me, i actually wanted to try hunting with dogs until i saw that video now i dont think i do because if thats all the dog does well , it reminds me of torture to it.


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## koyote76

bobkat.....well gin house maybe you should take this one.

back to bobkat.  im asking you to stop posting on this thread. if you could do us a favor and make a new thread of what your wanting to know or state your beliefs on the hog hunting forum feel free to do so, actually please do, it will be a good discussion and maybe we will all learn something. but this thread is intended on protecting our rights not trying to have a convo on why we should protect them we already know that. so please make a new thread. you are stirring the pot and getting off topic. some of us are really trying to fight the good fight and you are distracting us from unifying or brothers in doing so. we already have alot on our plate trying to get thermal and doggers to stop bickering.  

thankyou and please make a new thread on the hog hunting forum. we will be happy to help you understand and answer any questions you have in regards to our sport.


----------



## redlevel

gin house said:


> koyote, good post but look all the way at the bottom of what you stated, " i hope you realize we are just good ppl with great dogs who dont want the govt or other ppl telling us what we can and cant do with our dogs.'  but above you condemed dogfighting? now say you are not a hunter, youre just lookin in from the outside(general public) what looks worse, a dog fight ot a pack of rough, gritty dogs mauling a hog?   not much a difference.  im not into dogfighting but i do uphold the same statement you made about people dont want the goverment to tell them what they can or cant do with their animals, like it or not, it should be someones choice to fight their dog or not, when you take his right to that you have started a trickle down affect to what has gotten us to where we are now.  step outside the box and look at it but that was a good post none the less.



Dog fighting or hog dogging is not for me, but I pretty much agree with this.   You're right, there isn't much difference between a dog fight and the rough, gritty dogs pulling down the hogs.  I have often stated that hog-dogging is a part of Southern sporting tradition.  Well, dog fighting (and cock fighting) is too.  Like I say, it ain't for me.  I am not too judgmental about this facet of hog dogging.  I have seen some mighty rough treatment of bird dogs by trainers and dog handlers.


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## gin house

koyote76 said:


> gin you are right. i was so taken back from a peta on this thread i forgot. its not my right to really abolish anything. i dont agree with dog fighting. not my cup of tea. but its not my place to abolish it.
> 
> going back to the post what i really meant to say was that the govt should not have a say into what we do with our dogs as long as the dogs are well cared for. but you are right. where do we draw the line? i fully believe mike vick was persecuated to make a statement. he was unfairly judged. if he wasnt the star he was the punishment for his crimes would be considerably less harsh. i dont agree with dog fighting but its not my place to abolish it.



 now i think youve made the perfect post.  i never liked vick until he got caught, i was kind of proud that some of the superstars actually had any contact with animals, even if it was fighting, yes, i think he was persecuted. look at how many atheletes, no, just football players who have killed people "accidentally" and never skipped a beat.  animals are reguarded too high, some think they are more important that humans, litterally. thats scary.


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## JackJack77

BobKat said:


> yes i am a hunter i love hunting. i am not a PETA or ASPCA person. i dont believe in starving or beating animals or fighting them or anything like that. animals have souls, they have feelings and they are living beings, and anyone who doesnt think that should really take a look around. i have seen videos of people mistreating animals and its wrong. i am not saying that all hog hunting with dogs are wrong i am saying taht i know of people who have killed there dogs for letting a hog get away, that is stupid and wrong i know people who have had a dog killed by a hog and got mad over it knowing that they take that chance. and i really dont think you should put it on the internet when you do it. Im saying have some respect. and from what i can tell about some of you who have posted you were not raised how i have been. i was raised that animals are to be treated respectfully, that we hunt to eat and survive not just to kill the biggest animal and brag about it. i was taught that you dont beat or abuse and animal wrongly, and that you dont shoot the animal for no reason. iv been hunting since i could walk, and im young yes but in 20 years of being around people and animals i have realized that they do have souls and feelings and they are much smarter than we are in ways. and if you think that hogs are dumb you are really underestimateing them. I hunt and i fish i just do it with respect. and the bible says that we should also care for animals and the earth and use it for our survival. and i can state my opininon just like anyone else. you have misunderstood me, i am for hunting, for our rights. i am agianst cruelty to animals, and against the thought that an animal doesnt deserve to be treated good. again no one has answered my question why use the dogs to hunt the hog? why not shoot it like we hunt deer? maybe i would change my opinion if someone explained this to me. i just honestly dont see the point of it and noone has showed me the point of it yet, you just keep saying im a spokes person for PETA, and im not im a spokes person for my beliefs and i have the right to do so. sorry to offend anyone, but maybe you can explain why you use dogs to hunt hogs?  and by the way please dont judge me for livestock showing if you have no idea what it is. i didnt mean to judge any of you for what you do and im sorry if it came off that way, i just dont see why they should be hunted like this.



You are Very Wrong lady. Though i think they have feelings and feel pain and what not...but animals do NOT have souls like us humans. There is no "Dog Heaven"....I do not condone dog fighting at all I hate that and yes it should be abolished. Hog Hunting with a dog is a sport. The dogs do not "tear them apart limb by limb". They are simply caught and tied, then off to a holding pin or the meat house.


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## gin house

koyote76 said:


> bobkat.....well gin house maybe you should take this one.
> 
> back to bobkat.  im asking you to stop posting on this thread. if you could do us a favor and make a new thread of what your wanting to know or state your beliefs on the hog hunting forum feel free to do so, actually please do, it will be a good discussion and maybe we will all learn something. but this thread is intended on protecting our rights not trying to have a convo on why we should protect them we already know that. so please make a new thread. you are stirring the pot and getting off topic. some of us are really trying to fight the good fight and you are distracting us from unifying or brothers in doing so. we already have alot on our plate trying to get thermal and doggers to stop bickering.
> 
> thankyou and please make a new thread on the hog hunting forum. we will be happy to help you understand and answer any questions you have in regards to our sport.



 koyote, there isnt much you can say to people like this.  she seems to me to be young and probably hasnt grasped that the world isnt wonderland, that everythings beutiful and perfect.  also, she seems that she really doesnt know what she believes also, she isnt a member of any of them, i can see by her posts, thats a good thing, maybe theres time for her to learn.  sounds young and lovey dovie to animals, reality will show up one day.


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## JackJack77

Besides, a Hog is a pest and nuisance. Like a rat if you will. Or Roach. And yes a Roach is an insect "not an animal" but guess what, God made both animals and insects so next time you stomp that roach or spider, think of his/hers sons and daughters and their little feelings then come talk about hunting hogs with dogs. No Matter what it is we're all under the same roof, God is above everything and he created everything. He created animals (feral hogs included) for our well being. Whether it be use them for workers(hunting dogs, sled pulling, etc.), pets, or to hunt/eat.


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## koyote76

gin house your are very correct.

ppl get the idea we can change the minds of ppl like peta and such. im aware we cant do that. they are crazy ppl. esp when they think animals have souls and yet most of them dont even have a faith. so what religion is your dog hahahhaa. jewish curs, southern baptist kemmers, 

we cant change thier mind, but we can fight. may not win but i aint gonna down with out a fight. and if ga outlaws ill goto texas and if everyone outlaws it then ill just be an outlaw. i think maybe thats what randy domniey has being trying to say the whole time with his outlaw curs


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## gin house

JackJack77 said:


> You are Very Wrong lady. Though i think they have feelings and feel pain and what not...but animals do NOT have souls like us humans. There is no "Dog Heaven"....I do not condone dog fighting at all I hate that and yes it should be abolished. Hog Hunting with a dog is a sport. The dogs do not "tear them apart limb by limb". They are simply caught and tied, then off to a holding pin or the meat house.



true post jackjack but when you say " i do not condone dog fighting at all i hate that and yes it should be abolished." ok, listen.  hogdoggin to you is ok because you enjoy it, and to clear things up, dogs do chew ears off, tear holes in, bite tails off, and maul to death the hog if you dont get there in time, im a hunter too. lol.    to the general public, the above is cruel and should be abolished, true?? ok, the dogfight is viewed by you as cruel and should be abolished? yes? why? its no more cruel but its not what you condone(enjoy)  right there is where the animal rights people have all of us, its not about the level of cruelty or whathave you, its the simple right to do as you want with animals that needs to be left alone, when you take some away its a domino affect until there is no more right to animals.   i was gonna post earlier about the no dogs go to heaven, lol.   i figured id make somebody mad about a dog from the past, lol.  that is true, good one. lol


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## gin house

JackJack77 said:


> Besides, a Hog is a pest and nuisance. Like a rat if you will. Or Roach. And yes a Roach is an insect "not an animal" but guess what, God made both animals and insects so next time you stomp that roach or spider, think of his/hers sons and daughters and their little feelings then come talk about hunting hogs with dogs. No Matter what it is we're all under the same roof, God is above everything and he created everything. He created animals (feral hogs included) for our well being. Whether it be use them for workers(hunting dogs, sled pulling, etc.), pets, or to hunt/eat.



yep x2


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## gin house

koyote76 said:


> gin house your are very correct.
> 
> ppl get the idea we can change the minds of ppl like peta and such. im aware we cant do that. they are crazy ppl. esp when they think animals have souls and yet most of them dont even have a faith. so what religion is your dog hahahhaa. jewish curs, southern baptist kemmers,
> 
> we cant change thier mind, but we can fight. may not win but i aint gonna down with out a fight. and if ga outlaws ill goto texas and if everyone outlaws it then ill just be an outlaw. i think maybe thats what randy domniey has being trying to say the whole time with his outlaw curs


  very true, i guess you could call my dogs robert kemmer bred southern babtist kemmer currs
theyve been a hair cruel to themselves gettin nicked up by hogs a couple times this year, i may have to call aspca on them.


----------



## gin house

redlevel said:


> Dog fighting or hog dogging is not for me, but I pretty much agree with this.   You're right, there isn't much difference between a dog fight and the rough, gritty dogs pulling down the hogs.  I have often stated that hog-dogging is a part of Southern sporting tradition.  Well, dog fighting (and cock fighting) is too.  Like I say, it ain't for me.  I am not too judgmental about this facet of hog dogging.  I have seen some mighty rough treatment of bird dogs by trainers and dog handlers.



i just knew you loved me


----------



## JackJack77

gin house said:


> true post jackjack but when you say " i do not condone dog fighting at all i hate that and yes it should be abolished." ok, listen.  hogdoggin to you is ok because you enjoy it, and to clear things up, dogs do chew ears off, tear holes in, bite tails off, and maul to death the hog if you dont get there in time, im a hunter too. lol.    to the general public, the above is cruel and should be abolished, true?? ok, the dogfight is viewed by you as cruel and should be abolished? yes? why? its no more cruel but its not what you condone(enjoy)  right there is where the animal rights people have all of us, its not about the level of cruelty or whathave you, its the simple right to do as you want with animals that needs to be left alone, when you take some away its a domino affect until there is no more right to animals.   i was gonna post earlier about the no dogs go to heaven, lol.   i figured id make somebody mad about a dog from the past, lol.  that is true, good one. lol



Here is why i personally do not condone dog fighting. Your putting 2 dogs in a pin/hot box/pit and FORCING them to fight pretty much to the death. Even if the dogs in the fight die or not doesnt matter, because if they dont die, most fights end where the dogs are very close to being dead or mauled to the point where they cannot be used then shot, or threw out somewhere and come on man this is just inhumane. While hunting hogs, the only time the hogs gets "mauled" are when you turn the catch dog loose(usually pit/bulldog/dogo) and your right, and we dont get there in time to throw the hog and gets th dogs off. But heres the difference: You and I both agreed that a Hog is a pest and nuisance, correct? so you got--hunters=dog vs pest/wild animal/nuisance. Then you got--people GAMBLING=dog vs dog. There is a HUGE difference in my book. We're not throwing down benjamins right before we turn catch dogs loose to catch the hog ya know? And how many dogs in a dog fight have you seen with cut collars and cut vests on? That is the difference.


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## Jester896

:





koyote76 said:


> if you have never used dogs on hunt then you dont need to be throwing your opinion on the matter. due to the fact your opinion is misformed and skewed to what you think it is without truthfully knowing anything about the sport. you have already contradicted yourself in your post. im not attacking you or picking on you just telling you that your wrong. it is not dog fighting by no means. and mostly the dogs do not kill the pig the hunters do. if it wasnt for dogs hunting with humans this country would have had alot harder time being developed due to the dog helping the man find food for his family especially when appalchian mountains were being setteled. it wasnt dog fighting then and its not dog fighting now.
> 
> dog fighting is stacking two dogs to kill each other. its very inhumane and that is what needs to abolished.
> 
> for your information i treat my dogs with very very much respect and so do the people on here. we spend more money on our dogs then your avg pet owner whos dog never leave the house. we feed them high quailty feed not the crap you find at walmart. if we followed your rules and didnt hunt our dogs we would being doing our dogs an injustice. so many ppl think we force our dogs to hunt like a parent who forces thier kid to play a sport. no they love it. not just any dog makes a hog dog. and no matter how much you love your dog or pet they are not humans. yes you might think they are smarter then humans, especially the ones that have been filling you with lies but if you say you dont completely agree with peta that means you agree with them on some apsect. if peta abolish's dog hunting very soon they will abolish hunting all together. dont think it cant happen becasue it can. please dont sit her on this forum and call your self a hunter but put down other hunters. i dont agree with all hunting tactics. are the ppl who shoot hogs with traditional bows ethical. many times they only wound the animal because the weapon is not powerfull enough to deliver a instant kill. but i dont want to abolish it heck ive done it and it is a thrill and i respect that tactic but you can see how the coin can so easily be flipped.
> 
> here we are bickering to each other about thermals. and we have a peta on boad on our own forum telling us we are dog fighting savages who not only put our dogs in danger but also have no respect for them. someone whos ideas are based on here say. peta is coming down on us. its here its on GON of all places. please stop seperating ourselves for once and fight peta or else we will be bickering whos fault it was that we are no longer allowed to hunt with our dogs or hunt period.
> 
> bobkat you have every right to be here. but alot of us HUNTERS, doggers or not are trying to unite and fight the good fight against peta and other crazed radicals. please do not post how you hate hunting dogs on a thread thats trying to preserve hunting. there are many other forums that peta has that would be willing to agree with you but beware not to say you have pets or hunt becasue they will condem you. i hope you realize we are just good ppl with great dogs who dont want the govt or other ppl telling us what we can and cant do with our dogs. please dont try to stir the pot even more then you already have.
> 
> thankyou and god bless


----------



## SELFBOW

But we love the UFC and MMA right?


----------



## big country rnr

redlevel said:


> Dog fighting or hog dogging is not for me, but I pretty much agree with this.   You're right, there isn't much difference between a dog fight and the rough, gritty dogs pulling down the hogs.  I have often stated that hog-dogging is a part of Southern sporting tradition.  Well, dog fighting (and cock fighting) is too.  Like I say, it ain't for me.  I am not too judgmental about this facet of hog dogging.  I have seen some mighty rough treatment of bird dogs by trainers and dog handlers.



Well lookie there. He agreed with somebody!! Cheers To ya redlevel i knew you had it in ya! 
Maybe we can all get along?


----------



## Scott Cain

Well done GIN HOUSE .....!


----------



## gin house

JackJack77 said:


> Here is why i personally do not condone dog fighting. Your putting 2 dogs in a pin/hot box/pit and FORCING them to fight pretty much to the death. Even if the dogs in the fight die or not doesnt matter, because if they dont die, most fights end where the dogs are very close to being dead or mauled to the point where they cannot be used then shot, or threw out somewhere and come on man this is just inhumane. While hunting hogs, the only time the hogs gets "mauled" are when you turn the catch dog loose(usually pit/bulldog/dogo) and your right, and we dont get there in time to throw the hog and gets th dogs off. But heres the difference: You and I both agreed that a Hog is a pest and nuisance, correct? so you got--hunters=dog vs pest/wild animal/nuisance. Then you got--people GAMBLING=dog vs dog. There is a HUGE difference in my book. We're not throwing down benjamins right before we turn catch dogs loose to catch the hog ya know? And how many dogs in a dog fight have you seen with cut collars and cut vests on? That is the difference.



 jackjack, about the dogfighting, you mean to tell me you have two alpha male pits conditioned and you have to FORCE them to fight?   you dont condone dogfighting because it is inhumane to YOU but you love hog dogging, the general public doesnt condone dogfighting nor do they condone hog doggin, they have no intrest in it, but they dont mind eating at resturaunts where animals die to feed them, or wearing leather shoes from dead animals, or fur coats from dead animals. what im saying is that everybody has a certain level of "cruelty" that they acept, even the public as stated above. when there is a limit set on it then the foot is in the door to take it all away. as long as there is division among animal users there will be problems. i dont like dogfighting but i think if you want to, you should have the right.  when you say the only time a hog gets mauled is when the catchdog is turned loose??  when you hunt with a pack of rough, gritty dogs theres no need for a catchdog unless you want insurance so to speak,  it happens when a pack of dogs catch a hog and no ears, tail, hunks gone, ive been hog hunting for a while with every kind of dog, rough, open, silent, baydogs, catchdog.  this ive seen.  if you condem dogfighting or any other animal use you are condeming hog dogging whether you know it or not, jump out of the box and look inside from cityfolks perspective, thats actually who will decide how and what we do with animals.  everybody has their own intrest and what they dont like is considered cruel but all in all its violent and somethings gonna die, pest or not, to them and even to me a living animal is an animal theyre all the same even if termed a pest.  not gettin at you just trying to get you to look at this thru anothers eyes.


----------



## Jester896

bigbird1 said:


> Why do you think he has other motives by referring doggers as another control method? Do I think his method is more productive than doggers, sure, some of the time. As he said many times before here on this very forum and I agree, every method has its place and time(trapping, dogging, thermal/nv and traditional) But he referred us for two reasons, how we conducted ourselves on a public forum and our reputation as guys who can get the job done and get it done without damaging the relationship between the farmer and the hunter. As he has said before he would like to work with more doggers, just for the simple fact that it is hard to shoot every hog in the field, this is when a dogger coming in the next morning would be great asset to finish up the job. Two different control methods working towards a common goal for the farmer and having a little fun along the way.



What I have said in this forum has nothing to do with my ability or the way I hunt or how effective that I can be or how effective the two can be together.  I don’t have to stand up in here and tell you that I can dot your eye inside 250 yds or somewhere in the face after that range to be able to do that, and with practice I’m sure I could do better, but I don’t have a need.  I don’t have to prove with pictures that we can dog 10 hogs in one outing to be able to do it.  Where my problems comes in is when you say that the equipment that I use is inferior and that I am dangerous if I use it or someone else does is ludicrous .  If I use a Tasco scope on my rifle I am no less effective than if I use a Pentax, Nikon, Meopta, Ziess or Schmidt in certain conditions.  That saying…”When The Tailgate Drops……” pretty much holds true. When I constantly hear the arrogance he spews... it just cranks my tractor.  Do I have a problem with the methods he and you use, or others and myself use, no, as you see I think they are the best approach.  I have been in a president’s back yard, all of the way down to a paupers, all of which get the same respect form me.  Why are his questions worthy of an answer when mine are ignored?


----------



## JackJack77

gin house said:


> jackjack, about the dogfighting, you mean to tell me you have two alpha male pits conditioned and you have to FORCE them to fight?   you dont condone dogfighting because it is inhumane to YOU but you love hog dogging, the general public doesnt condone dogfighting nor do they condone hog doggin, they have no intrest in it, but they dont mind eating at resturaunts where animals die to feed them, or wearing leather shoes from dead animals, or fur coats from dead animals. what im saying is that everybody has a certain level of "cruelty" that they acept, even the public as stated above. when there is a limit set on it then the foot is in the door to take it all away. as long as there is division among animal users there will be problems. i dont like dogfighting but i think if you want to, you should have the right.  when you say the only time a hog gets mauled is when the catchdog is turned loose??  when you hunt with a pack of rough, gritty dogs theres no need for a catchdog unless you want insurance so to speak,  it happens when a pack of dogs catch a hog and no ears, tail, hunks gone, ive been hog hunting for a while with every kind of dog, rough, open, silent, baydogs, catchdog.  this ive seen.  if you condem dogfighting or any other animal use you are condeming hog dogging whether you know it or not, jump out of the box and look inside from cityfolks perspective, thats actually who will decide how and what we do with animals.  everybody has their own intrest and what they dont like is considered cruel but all in all its violent and somethings gonna die, pest or not, to them and even to me a living animal is an animal theyre all the same even if termed a pest.  not gettin at you just trying to get you to look at this thru anothers eyes.



I get what your saying and no hard feelings of course. I guess when you look at from a city folk's eyes they probably do look the same, but I mean when you put two male fighting dogs in a pit, with intentions for "your's" (not literally just metaphorically speaking) to win, by means of death, *I* just see a big difference in that and catching hogs. But like you said from a city slickers view it could be on the same level of "animal cruelty". If the city slickers went and caught a hog or 2, then went to a basement dog fight, dont you think they'd see a difference in the two?


----------



## big country rnr

JackJack77 said:


> I get what your saying and no hard feelings of course. I guess when you look at from a city folk's eyes they probably do look the same, but I mean when you put two male fighting dogs in a pit, with intentions for "your's" (not literally just metaphorically speaking) to win, by means of death, *I* just see a big difference in that and catching hogs. But like you said from a city slickers view it could be on the same level of "animal cruelty". If the city slickers went and caught a hog or 2, then went to a basement dog fight, dont you think they'd see a difference in the two?


Without a doubt "no they wouldnt" They hate the use of animals and hunting! They will never understand our sport!!! I just hope we pass it on to our children so there is someone to fight the "ANTI's" After we are gone! It just sucks we have to fight for something should be a given!


----------



## bigbird1

Jester896 said:


> What I have said in this forum has nothing to do with my ability or the way I hunt or how effective that I can be or how effective the two can be together. I don’t have to stand up in here and tell you that I can dot your eye inside 250 yds or somewhere in the face after that range to be able to do that, and with practice I’m sure I could do better, but I don’t have a need. I don’t have to prove with pictures that we can dog 10 hogs in one outing to be able to do it. Where my problems comes in is when you say that the equipment that I use is inferior and that I am dangerous if I use it or someone else does is ludicrous . If I use a Tasco scope on my rifle I am no less effective than if I use a Pentax, Nikon, Meopta, Ziess or Schmidt in certain conditions. That saying…”When The Tailgate Drops……” pretty much holds true. When I constantly hear the arrogance he spews... it just cranks my tractor. Do I have a problem with the methods he and you use, or others and myself use, no, as you see I think they are the best approach. I have been in a president’s back yard, all of the way down to a paupers, all of which get the same respect form me. Why are his questions worthy of an answer when mine are ignored?


 


I know what you say on this forum or how you conduct yourself off of this forum has nothing to do with how effective you are as a hunter. I am just stating Jager would recommend more doggers to the farms he services, if he had guys with a good reputations and this is NOT directed at you in any way just some doggers in general. The ones who brag about breaking the law, transporting hogs, trespassing or generally are not professional on a public forum about our sport. The best way to get land to hunt on is standing tall and taking care of business for the farmer and leaving his place just as you found it, with the exception of fewer hogs. We hear all time from the farms we service about terrible experiences they had  letting doggers come in to hunt. I must have missed the post where he accused you of using inferior equipment? Look I'm not here for an argument, I have heard so many times Jager doesn't like doggers, when I know for a fact this is just not true.


----------



## sammy33

bobkat said:


> im aware of this and thats why i dont fully support those groups and i actually looked up peta and aspca to look into what they support and stand for and i have to say i like the  aspca.  Dont get me wrong im not saying ban it im saying dont treat animals badly, that video that was posted earlier is what really got to me, the hogs were stressed and had a dog hang on to its ear and why i do not know and noone has yet to explain it to me. And many of my hogs were eventually used for meat, because you get no money for them if you sell them and its awful to leave a pig in a pen when you know it isnt happy. I took care of the animal and treated it good and then used it to survive, i dont think there is anything wrong with that and i didnt want to start a fight but noone has explained this whole concept to me, i actually wanted to try hunting with dogs until i saw that video now i dont think i do because if thats all the dog does well , it reminds me of torture to it.



i really dont know what to say..so i will start here..i was raised up by my dad and grandpa and they have always hunted with dogs..now i am not against any other huntin cause i would try it all if i could but i do not see where ayone has the right to tell me how i hunt is wrong..listen our dogs live better then most people in this world..and if u wanna start blowing a horn about hogs and animals being mistreated    u better take a long look at whats going on to people first ..i a sooo sick of hearing about all the poor animals..i have 2 uncles that went to war for this counrty and never got any kind of help for peta ..i have people down the road from me that are starving and so are their kids..but do u see peta standing up for them and there is homeless in this world and children amoung them and still no one from peta is standing up to help them...where is peta for humans...this world makes me sick and so does peta...yeah u just hit a nerve...sorry but it goes both ways..


----------



## Jester896

bigbird1 said:


> I know what you say on this forum or how you conduct yourself off of this forum has nothing to do with how effective you are as a hunter. I am just stating Jager would recommend more doggers to the farms he services, if he had guys with a good reputations and this is NOT directed at you in any way just some doggers in general. The ones who brag about breaking the law, transporting hogs, trespassing or generally are not professional on a public forum about our sport. The best way to get land to hunt on is standing tall and taking care of business for the farmer and leaving his place just as you found it, with the exception of fewer hogs. We hear all time from the farms we service about terrible experiences they had  letting doggers come in to hunt. I must have missed the post where he accused you of using inferior equipment? Look I'm not here for an argument, I have heard so many times Jager doesn't like doggers, when I know for a fact this is just not true.



The only one of those I am guilty of is trespassing.  If you run dogs long enough it will happen.  Do I condone it, no.  I firmly believe with the exception of some 4-wheeler tracks and some sunflower hulls I leave a place in the same condition as I found it.  I have heard him say one positive comment about a dogger that I run with regularly and posted he didn't actually mention me but I acknowledge the comment anyhow.  The rest of the time he is rather condescending towards me.  So I feel compeled to give it back to him.  If a dogger wants to relocate a hog and the conditions are different, to a hunt club with no sows or a pen ,as long as it is done within the law I really don't have a problem with it, don't care to do it myself.  Yet I am vermin like the hogs he kills.  I do not feel you and I are arguing I believe we are having a reasonable conversation with each other which BTW is.  But have enjoyed it just the same.


----------



## Jester896

sammy33 said:


> i really dont know what to say..so i will start here..i was raised up by my dad and grandpa and they have always hunted with dogs..now i am not against any other huntin cause i would try it all if i could but i do not see where ayone has the right to tell me how i hunt is wrong..listen our dogs live better then most people in this world..and if u wanna start blowing a horn about hogs and animals being mistreated    u better take a long look at whats going on to people first ..i a sooo sick of hearing about all the poor animals..i have 2 uncles that went to war for this counrty and never got any kind of help for peta ..i have people down the road from me that are starving and so are their kids..but do u see peta standing up for them and there is homeless in this world and children amoung them and still no one from peta is standing up to help them...where is peta for humans...this world makes me sick and so does peta...yeah u just hit a nerve...sorry but it goes both ways..



easy sunshine they won't take you today either


----------



## Florida Curdog

Catch, relocate , cut, mark and release away from farm land. To hunt another day.


----------



## Florida Curdog

BobKat said:


> i have never used dogs to hunt hogs, but i find it to be very inhumane, the way i understand it is that the dog bays the hog up and at times takes it down and kills it. this is wrong if you are going to hunt hogs then dont use dogs to chase them and do your work for you. i believe in hunting hogs like you hunt deer and i dont belive in using dogs for deer hunting either only as trail dogs. these practices should be abolished, animals are to be treated with respect what if someone sent a dog out to attack and bay you up you wouldnt like it either and its dangerous for the dogs and there is no need for it.



You know what they say about opinions.


----------



## gin house

sammy33 said:


> i really dont know what to say..so i will start here..i was raised up by my dad and grandpa and they have always hunted with dogs..now i am not against any other huntin cause i would try it all if i could but i do not see where ayone has the right to tell me how i hunt is wrong..listen our dogs live better then most people in this world..and if u wanna start blowing a horn about hogs and animals being mistreated    u better take a long look at whats going on to people first ..i a sooo sick of hearing about all the poor animals..i have 2 uncles that went to war for this counrty and never got any kind of help for peta ..i have people down the road from me that are starving and so are their kids..but do u see peta standing up for them and there is homeless in this world and children amoung them and still no one from peta is standing up to help them...where is peta for humans...this world makes me sick and so does peta...yeah u just hit a nerve...sorry but it goes both ways..



yep, exactly.  its bad when abortions(murder) is legal and people are starving in out own backyards but these super wealthy groups spend billions of dollars on lawyers fighting for "animals rights" and all this other going on, thats why i saw people these days value the well being and lives of animals over humans.   sammy, youre exactly right, dont be sorry when "they" make you sick to youre stomach, tell it.


----------



## gin house

JackJack77 said:


> I get what your saying and no hard feelings of course. I guess when you look at from a city folk's eyes they probably do look the same, but I mean when you put two male fighting dogs in a pit, with intentions for "your's" (not literally just metaphorically speaking) to win, by means of death, *I* just see a big difference in that and catching hogs. But like you said from a city slickers view it could be on the same level of "animal cruelty". If the city slickers went and caught a hog or 2, then went to a basement dog fight, dont you think they'd see a difference in the two?



 i really think that if cityfolk went to a dogfight then went to a hogcatch with rough dogs they would probably say the hogcatch was more inhumane, the squeling and outnumbered and all, thats just me.  i dont like dogfighting but i do love fighting roosters( pretty well out of it now) i see nothing wrong with it, they are fearless and wont quit, they are not forced but will fight to the last breath, they are the most noble of all animals to me. anyways,  im not arguing with you, just sharing my view.  i love hog hunting, love cockfighting but believe it or not have a soft side when it comes to my animals, i take care of them and care for their well being but when it boils down theyre just animals, not humans and should be our right to with as we please.


----------



## HOGDOG76

gin house said:


> i really think that if cityfolk went to a dogfight then went to a hogcatch with rough dogs they would probably say the hogcatch was more inhumane, the squeling and outnumbered and all, thats just me.  I dont like dogfighting but i do love fighting roosters( pretty well out of it now) i see nothing wrong with it, they are fearless and wont quit, they are not forced but will fight to the last breath, they are the most noble of all animals to me. Anyways,  im not arguing with you, just sharing my view.  I love hog hunting, love cockfighting but believe it or not have a soft side when it comes to my animals, i take care of them and care for their well being but when it boils down theyre just animals, not humans and should be our right to with as we please.


gin i totally see your point in that from the outside they could seem similar and we are each drawing a line with what we personally consider cruelty.for me the difference is i run dogs to catch hogs and it can get rough for the hog or dogs but the objective is to get there as fast as possible and get the dogs off not to allow and encourage it like with dogfighting until one animal cannot continue. For me that will always be why i dont condone dogfighting but respect your point of the slippery slope.


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## WolfPack

JUST.....A......MATTER....OF.....TIME.  We are going to LOOSE!  Too many folks not thinking what they say or what they post.  Let's see some more pics of castration, so cool.


----------



## Ihunt

We will all have our own way of hunting if we all stick together.In the original post,Rod asked us to replace the word hunter with farmer.PETA and the HSUS are real.If they(PETA) will/can give a farmer a hard time about doing what he does,what do we think they can/will do to any of us.

If you hunt on a farm where you don't own the land do exactly as the landowner ask you to.If that landowner has a dogger,trapper,and a night hunter learn to work together.It's his land.At any time, we can all be asked to leave.

If we do manage to remove all the hogs on a particular farm do not look at it as a lost place to hunt.We did what the farmer asked of us and he will tell his friends.They will then call us/you/me to help them with their problem and on and on and on.....

If anyone has doubts about the PETA freaks,look at and read olcowman's post.He doesn't strike me as someone to make up a story like that.

Happy Hunting.....however you choose to do it.


----------



## HOGDOG76

WolfPack said:


> JUST.....A......MATTER....OF.....TIME.  We are going to LOOSE!  Too many folks not thinking what they say or what they post.  Let's see some more pics of castration, so cool.



WATCH OUT CHICKEN LITTLE THE SKY IS FALLING


----------



## hoghunter08

how could it ever be expected that we would agree or side with ppl like redlevel or Bobkat that try to tear down our heritage of hunting we all love so much? it makes me sick to read some of these comments. i really didnt know it had got this bad until i got on this forum. i knew there were ppl out there that didnt approve or like hogdoggers but i didnt realize there was such hatred. i am all for banning together to save our common interest of hunting. but to alot of us hog hunting with dogs is who we are thats all we have ever known and it is somthing that is irreplaceble. 

Gin, i understand your point completly! in the end they are all still just animals! 

Jager, i understand what u r trying to do as well. there are farmers out there that truly need that type of help...maybe consider donating the meat to a shelter or a local butcher shop that can disperse it to people that really need it.

i believe that hogs can be hunted out of an area as i have seen it on a local club here. there numbers should be controlled especially around farming. also alot of farmers actually make more off of hog damage than they would have made if they wouldve yielded a good crop through insurance. yes the insurance companies do pay out for hog damage.

started out as an interesting post and a few roag fellows have thrown us off topic


----------



## gin house

WolfPack said:


> JUST.....A......MATTER....OF.....TIME.  We are going to LOOSE!  Too many folks not thinking what they say or what they post.  Let's see some more pics of castration, so cool.



 wolfpack,  whats posted on here isnt worth a hill of beans to peta or the hsus.  if you hear talk of them starting oposition they have already closed up shop ready to do their thing, theyve most likely been visiting this site for years,  really its not the pics or post that will change anything, its the almighty dollar, they have more than people could dream, a lawmaker does what hes asked and makes some easy, good money.   this is whats wrong, corruption breeds and takes from everybody, its been this way forever.  nothin we can do on this forum can help or hurt us, ive been here with another sport and watched it trampled quickly and quietly.  in louisiana the elected officials showed up and spoke to us, told us they were lobbying for us and themselves, thats the state government in support of cockfighting and got trampled like they werent there.  I challenge everybody to google peta and hsus, if you want to see the wild side of peta see if you can google ALF( animal liberation front) they are violent, crooked, murderers supported(proven) by peta, if people would research these groups and their financial resources it would blow their mind.  the only way i see to stand up to the animal rights groups is for every animal using group to come together and camp out on the lawn of the whitehouse, millions of people, thats the problem, everybody would want to stand up for their rights on the couch.  if this would happen the gov. might open their eyes and see that were tierd of the corrupt bullcrap and ready to stir it up.  just me.     as far as self-incrimination, this forum is just a speckle of mist on a mountain.


----------



## REDMOND1858

BobKat said:


> yeah well some animals are smarter than most people they just cant speak in a language that we understand i dont agree with PETA fully but we should stand up for abusing animals, we stand up for people being abused, we should do the same for animals. i think this is what seperates the True sportsmen and hunters from the so called ones. its like shooting a fawn and passing up the big buck its dumb. or killing a jake and letting a long beard walk it makes no sense no matter how you look at it.



You sound like a PETA person 100%. Whats the difference in shooting a deer with spots and a giant buck?? There aint one other than the one with spots is gone taste a little better. Whats the difference between shooting a jake and a tom? there aint one. I have a feeling you are here just to stir up trouble. You are obviously very uneducated about, and against the sport of hunting so what are you doing on a hunting forum? You sound like some city slicker that got bored in the office one day and decided to bother someone. You obviously dont belong here


----------



## Jester896

hoghunter08 said:


> maybe consider donating the meat to a shelter or a local butcher shop that can disperse it to people that really need it.
> 
> i believe that hogs can be hunted out of an area as i have seen it on a local club here. there numbers should be controlled especially around farming. also alot of farmers actually make more off of hog damage than they would have made if they wouldve yielded a good crop through insurance. yes the insurance companies do pay out for hog damage.
> 
> started out as an interesting post and a few roag fellows have thrown us off topic



It is hard for some of us to get around the bull horn blowing sometimes.  He does donate the harvest or a part of it.  Funny how it drove the price of skinning and quartering up from $15.00 to $45.00 though.  If you take it with the hair that is free, that part is good.  Where does that extra money go?



gin house said:


> as far as self-incrimination, this forum is just a speckle of mist on a mountain.


----------



## Nicodemus

Abbreviations  for profanity and typin` around the censor will get folks an infraction. Ya`ll keep it clean.


----------



## kornbread

Jester896 said:


> It is hard for some of us to get around the bull horn blowing sometimes. He does donate the harvest or a part of it. Funny how it drove the price of skinning and quartering up from $15.00 to $45.00 though. If you take it with the hair that is free, that part is good. Where does that extra money go?


  i never knew it cost $15 my guy charges $40 to skin and quarter it up and $80 to make sausage that the going rate not $15 they have to have a special lic to clean wild hogs thru the state that has some cost involved like any buisness.


----------



## big country rnr

kornbread said:


> i never knew it cost $15 my guy charges $40 to skin and quarter it up and $80 to make sausage that the going rate not $15 they have to have a special lic to clean wild hogs thru the state that has some cost involved like any buisness.


Hey kornbread they do it for 20 bucks for any hog up to 200 lbs around south GA $40 for only boar hogs over 200 lbs!
They get alot of ppl around brunswick,nahunta,waycross And folkston...$40 for a small hog is way over priced!
And its $40 to clean and $80  for sausage ??? Or $80 for the whole hog??? Thats not a bad deal there!


----------



## Jester896

kornbread said:


> i never knew it cost $15 my guy charges $40 to skin and quarter it up and $80 to make sausage that the going rate not $15 they have to have a special lic to clean wild hogs thru the state that has some cost involved like any buisness.





big country rnr said:


> Hey kornbread they do it for 20 bucks for any hog up to 200 lbs around south GA $40 for only boar hogs over 200 lbs!
> They get alot of ppl around brunswick,nahunta,waycross And folkston...$40 for a small hog is way over priced!
> And its $40 to clean and $80  for sausage ??? Or $80 for the whole hog??? Thats not a bad deal there!



We gave a 300# sow away the other day and they took it to a processor.  For $185 they got the whole thing cut and sausage made. 20% for skinning and quartering?  Maybe we should open one up for regional pricing?


----------



## REDMOND1858

Jester896 said:


> It is hard for some of us to get around the bull horn blowing sometimes.  He does donate the harvest or a part of it.  Funny how it drove the price of skinning and quartering up from $15.00 to $45.00 though.  If you take it with the hair that is free, that part is good.  Where does that extra money go?



I think the $15 price was for hogs that were just field dressed. I might be mistaking but im pretty sure i remember correctly


----------



## big country rnr

Jester896 said:


> We gave a 300# sow away the other day and they took it to a processor.  For $185 they got the whole thing cut and sausage made. 20% for skinning and quartering?  Maybe we should open one up for regional pricing?


Wow thats awful high .


----------



## Jester896

big country rnr said:


> Wow thats awful high .



I thought it was too...but I know for a fact  the same only charged me $15.00 for skinning and quartering one up last year...I gave them $20...I can only wonder what happened in a short time that would drive the price up more than double.


----------



## alpha1

*uncle earls*

They cancelled uncle earls this year.  Its only a matter of time before we're all on the ropes.


----------



## kornbread

big country rnr said:


> Hey kornbread they do it for 20 bucks for any hog up to 200 lbs around south GA $40 for only boar hogs over 200 lbs!
> They get alot of ppl around brunswick,nahunta,waycross And folkston...$40 for a small hog is way over priced!
> And its $40 to clean and $80 for sausage ??? Or $80 for the whole hog??? Thats not a bad deal there!


the $80 includes all cleaning and making sausage.


----------



## big country rnr

kornbread said:


> the $80 includes all cleaning and making sausage.


Thats not a bad deal at all kornbread ..
I got freezer full brother That im grinding To make my own!!!
Hopefully we all will always have freezers full of wild pork ..
And this great sport of hog hunting forever!


----------



## kornbread

i have a lot that i mixed with my deer this year made it 50/50 and its the best made with leggs old plantation.


----------



## Bugeye

I don't usually post but I will now. If I had lots of money I'd go on a thermal hunt. If I were younger I'd go hog dogging. anyway is good for me.  As for shooting all the hogs in an area, they are too smart for that. they just relocate until the hunters leave.
ya'all need to unite against the bobkats of the world.


----------



## olcowman

Bugeye said:


> As for shooting all the hogs in an area, they are too smart for that. they just relocate until the hunters leave.
> ya'all need to unite against the bobkats of the world.



I reckon all hogs in Ga are direct descendants of Arnold Ziffle, probably one of the highest IQs on a hog ever. Up around Hooterville, I believe.

Kind of throwong curve here but back to where we kind of started, and granted I may be over simplifying a great deal but.....

Hog hunting, both with and without dogs is a part of our culture and is no doubt relative to the heritage of sport hunting. You may disagree on some of the finer points but they have historically developed side by side over the last couple of hundred years here in the south. (Long before that in Europe) I think we all agree they are both a form of sport hunting. 

The issue as I see it is whether or not I need to hitch my wagon to a "modern" form of feral swine control that is run as a business venture. I can't help but give Jager credit for coming up with such a unique and effective service for the farmers who have suffered from the state's hogs. He is obviously passionate about it and I congratulate him on being able to make money off something he really enjoys. But I asked myself a question: *"If I was out there with him participating in a thermal shoot, would I feel like I was hunting?" *Based on my conception of and my actual experiences over the last 4 decades I would have to answer no. I would feel as if I was just shooting hogs..... there in lies the difference.

I am not ready to embrace this method into the folds of sport hunting just as I would not feel comfortable if any of the deer permit sharp shooters began posting pictures and results in a sport hunting forum.


----------



## Jester896

big country rnr said:


> Wow thats awful high .



I made a call again and got a few clarifications on the 300# sow.  There were 10+# of pan, 10+# of link, and 10+# of smoked link.  She could not tell me what the upcharge fee was.  Makes better sense to me now though.  Guessing $40, that would bring the cost down and the skinning and quartering fee up to around 30% 



olcowman said:


> I reckon all hogs in Ga are direct descendants of Arnold Ziffle, probably one of the highest IQs on a hog ever. Up around Hooterville, I believe.
> 
> Kind of throwong curve here but back to where we kind of started, and granted I may be over simplifying a great deal but.....
> 
> Hog hunting, both with and without dogs is a part of our culture and is no doubt relative to the heritage of sport hunting. You may disagree on some of the finer points but they have historically developed side by side over the last couple of hundred years here in the south. (Long before that in Europe) I think we all agree they are both a form of sport hunting.
> 
> The issue as I see it is whether or not I need to hitch my wagon to a "modern" form of feral swine control that is run as a business venture. I can't help but give Jager credit for coming up with such a unique and effective service for the farmers who have suffered from the state's hogs. He is obviously passionate about it and I congratulate him on being able to make money off something he really enjoys. But I asked myself a question: *"If I was out there with him participating in a thermal shoot, would I feel like I was hunting?" *Based on my conception of and my actual experiences over the last 4 decades I would have to answer no. I would feel as if I was just shooting hogs..... there in lies the difference.
> 
> I am not ready to embrace this method into the folds of sport hunting just as I would not feel comfortable if any of the deer permit sharp shooters began posting pictures and results in a sport hunting forum.



I understand what you are saying...try to look at it this way for a second...not trying to sway you..  You spot the hogs (very similar to other forms of spotting just at night) then you stalk the prey (pretty much like deer or turkey) being careful of the wind and sound..set yourself up to shoot (pretty much like everything else you hunt) then your first shot is easy (basically like any other hunt you have stalked) then the rest of the shots are pretty much like any bird hunt I have participated in (with lead and speed being the deciding factor on when to *Pull*...................sorry I was waiting for a gun to go off...the trigger.  What's not like hunting?  Just like any other form of hunting...just shooting...  All wrapped into one!


----------



## HOGDOG76

jester896 said:


> i made a call again and got a few clarifications on the 300# sow.  There were 10+# of pan, 10+# of link, and 10+# of smoked link.  She could not tell me what the upcharge fee was.  Makes better sense to me now though.  Guessing $40, that would bring the cost down and the skinning and quartering fee up to around 30%
> 
> 
> 
> i understand what you are saying...try to look at it this way for a second...not trying to sway you..  You spot the hogs (very similar to other forms of spotting just at night) then you stalk the prey (pretty much like deer or turkey) being careful of the wind and sound..set yourself up to shoot (pretty much like everything else you hunt) then your first shot is easy (basically like any other hunt you have stalked) then the rest of the shots are pretty much like any bird hunt i have participated in (with lead and speed being the deciding factor on when to *pull*...................sorry i was waiting for a gun to go off...the trigger.  What's not like hunting?  Just like any other form of hunting...just shooting...  All wrapped into one!



i see cowmans point on this one.is shooting deer on crop  depredation permits the same as hunting them legally during season?


----------



## olcowman

Jester896 said:


> I understand what you are saying...try to look at it this way for a second...not trying to sway you..  You spot the hogs (very similar to other forms of spotting just at night) then you stalk the prey (pretty much like deer or turkey) being careful of the wind and sound..set yourself up to shoot (pretty much like everything else you hunt) then your first shot is easy (basically like any other hunt you have stalked) then the rest of the shots are pretty much like any bird hunt I have participated in (with lead and speed being the deciding factor on when to *Pull*...................sorry I was waiting for a gun to go off...the trigger.  What's not like hunting?  Just like any other form of hunting...just shooting...  All wrapped into one!



Among the more obvious differences I personally see, and granted that it can be described with a particularly liberal use of words and sound just like plain old hunting but.... #1- I have never hunting anything myself with the aide of high tech, night vision (not really an issue here I admit) #2 - I have never just shot and harvested without regard to game laws and personal needs (that is a big difference between pursuing something you enjoy versus controlling a harmful species for a farmer) and #3 - I can't ever remember being paid to shoot anything in particular.

And thanks HOGDOG76, for that point. How would ya'll feel about sharing this forum further and allowing a thread dedicated to those who possess depradation permits for deer harvest in the state? Imagine moderating one of them threads with pictures of all sizes of whitetails (from fawns to sure enough trophies) piled up like cordwood, surrounded by a bunch a grinning sharp shooters equipped with rifles and spotlights. How would that go over?

What's the difference between the two? If anything one might say that at least the deer are a native game animal whereas, as many here like to point out, that the poor old feral hog is a non-native, "invasive" species and not a game animal at all? IMO these two "control" services go hand in hand serving the agriculture industry and are  totally seperate entities in comparison to a man out in pursuit of game under more traditional pretenses such as food for the table and the personal satisfaction one can glean from pursuing the quarry in natural surroundings much the same as our forefathers did.


----------



## olcowman

Good Lord! I just realized and this "Jagerment" has almosts 200 posts and only one very brief visit by a mod! Is this a modern forum record? I reckon we can have us a civil conversation on here about this Jager's methods and idealogies. I have realized that a couple of fellows on here who I thought was my enemies are actually on the same page as I am. We just never spent any time discussing our own thoughts on these matters without getting rough on each other. I am as guilty as anyone and apologize for past postings on here if i offended some of ya'll.

To me thise whole thing ain't about picking a side, although that is what it appears to be. I am more in the line of thinking that we just may need to clearly define where we stand on issues like this which can appear to cross over into the sport hunting environs. There are some boundaries in place, although vague sometimes, that clearly outline the sport of hunting. These are often set in place by both traditions and our judicial system in dealing with hunting seasons and harvest limits and so forth.

Some have down played the passion that many show on here for what we refer to as the "tradition" of hunting, but it is not something I take lightly. This is not some God given right automatically instilled upon us at birth. It was one of key issues that caused many of ancestors to pursue a life on this continent to begin with and ultimately led to them taking up arms to protect this new life. Hunting in Europe at that time was strictly limited to royalty and the extremely wealthy aristocracy . The simple act of being caught trespassing on what was decreed as "royal forest" could result in a death sentence. Once allowed to freely roam among the forests of the new world and actually harvest some game for the nurturing of his family, it is no wonder that the patriots fought so passionately against overwhelming odds to defeat the King. Sorry if that seems a little over the top, but it is partly how it has been handed down thru my family and one of the reasons I even question this subject at all. Protecting the sport ain't all about us just getting along and agreeing with one another. It is about some policing among ourselves and self restraint. Did we not, hunters as a group, mostly agree that the act of displaying your most recent deer harvest tied across the front of your car to be a less than positive reflection on the sport and something we should discourage. We seem to have came together as a group at some point and discourage this behaviour because it is definately a rare occurence nowadays and is immeadiately scorned by most of us. We have a similiar situation here although it is not an issue we need to openly attack or discourage. But perhaps we do need to make clear we recognize this sort of thing as a method of control for hogs and not just another form of hunting them. We sully ourselves up enough without bringing in outside help?


----------



## gin house

*thermal*

im not looking to keep this post off track but the thermal hunting to me isnt hunting, its as far from true hunting as you can get.  if somebody wants to do that then thats fine, i wouldnt,  its slaughter.  if you cant shoot them in the daylight with your eyes you ought not shoot em.  they really dont have a chance when somebody spots them with thermal 800 yards away and stalks up on them and shoots them.  to me hunting is a hobby, something i enjoy,  i make a living working a job, i enjoy my hobbies that much more.  but to each their own, i prefer not to mix buisness with pleasure.


----------



## NEGA Hog Hunter

does anyone know if it is legal to shoot deer on crop damage permits with thermal image weapons. I would like to see how well those photos would be accepted.


----------



## kornbread

the same as the ones that use spot lights to do it


----------



## Jester896

HOGDOG76 said:


> i see cowmans point on this one.is shooting deer on crop  depredation permits the same as hunting them legally during season?



nope just like killin hogs in the field....just was offering a different way to look at it....try it once is all i am saying...be open minded about it and experience it…then judge…I have stalked them in more ways than just with a bow…shot them from stands…thermal hunted them…IMO nothing beats dogging them…they all have their good points.  But in the end it is ultimately just killing them


----------



## Jester896

olcowman said:


> Among the more obvious differences I personally see, and granted that it can be described with a particularly liberal use of words and sound just like plain old hunting but.... #1- I have never hunting anything myself with the aide of high tech, night vision (not really an issue here I admit) #2 - I have never just shot and harvested without regard to game laws and personal needs (that is a big difference between pursuing something you enjoy versus controlling a harmful species for a farmer) and #3 - I can't ever remember being paid to shoot anything in particular.
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks HOGDOG76, for that point. How would ya'll feel about sharing this forum further and allowing a thread dedicated to those who possess depradation permits for deer harvest in the state? Imagine moderating one of them threads with pictures of all sizes of whitetails (from fawns to sure enough trophies) piled up like cordwood, surrounded by a bunch a grinning sharp shooters equipped with rifles and spotlights. How would that go over?
> 
> What's the difference between the two? If anything one might say that at least the deer are a native game animal whereas, as many here like to point out, that the poor old feral hog is a non-native, "invasive" species and not a game animal at all? IMO these two "control" services go hand in hand serving the agriculture industry and are  totally seperate entities in comparison to a man out in pursuit of game under more traditional pretenses such as food for the table and the personal satisfaction one can glean from pursuing the quarry in natural surroundings much the same as our forefathers did.



since #1 is not an issue...I have never just shot and harvested without regard to game laws and personal needs....i am sure that you have taken a few and given them away to someone less fortunate as well...#3...well i have gotten paid a time or two for shootin skeets 



olcowman said:


> Good Lord! I just realized and this "Jagerment" has almosts 200 posts and only one very brief visit by a mod! Is this a modern forum record? I reckon we can have us a civil conversation on here about this Jager's methods and idealogies. I have realized that a couple of fellows on here who I thought was my enemies are actually on the same page as I am. We just never spent any time discussing our own thoughts on these matters without getting rough on each other. I am as guilty as anyone and apologize for past postings on here if i offended some of ya'll.
> 
> To me thise whole thing ain't about picking a side, although that is what it appears to be. I am more in the line of thinking that we just may need to clearly define where we stand on issues like this which can appear to cross over into the sport hunting environs. There are some boundaries in place, although vague sometimes, that clearly outline the sport of hunting. These are often set in place by both traditions and our judicial system in dealing with hunting seasons and harvest limits and so forth.
> 
> Some have down played the passion that many show on here for what we refer to as the "tradition" of hunting, but it is not something I take lightly. This is not some God given right automatically instilled upon us at birth. It was one of key issues that caused many of ancestors to pursue a life on this continent to begin with and ultimately led to them taking up arms to protect this new life. Hunting in Europe at that time was strictly limited to royalty and the extremely wealthy aristocracy . The simple act of being caught trespassing on what was decreed as "royal forest" could result in a death sentence. Once allowed to freely roam among the forests of the new world and actually harvest some game for the nurturing of his family, it is no wonder that the patriots fought so passionately against overwhelming odds to defeat the King. Sorry if that seems a little over the top, but it is partly how it has been handed down thru my family and one of the reasons I even question this subject at all. Protecting the sport ain't all about us just getting along and agreeing with one another. It is about some policing among ourselves and self restraint. Did we not, hunters as a group, mostly agree that the act of displaying your most recent deer harvest tied across the front of your car to be a less than positive reflection on the sport and something we should discourage. We seem to have came together as a group at some point and discourage this behaviour because it is definately a rare occurence nowadays and is immeadiately scorned by most of us. We have a similiar situation here although it is not an issue we need to openly attack or discourage. But perhaps we do need to make clear we recognize this sort of thing as a method of control for hogs and not just another form of hunting them. We sully ourselves up enough without bringing in outside help?



 again, my wiskey sippin..backy chewin _friend_


----------



## WolfPack

Did anyone catch it this morning?  The outdoor channel just had a little talk about the most powerful enemy we face today....HSUS.  They have enough money to fund every animal shelter across the country!    Instead....the funds are targeted towards anti-hunting campaigns and etc...


----------



## Jester896

Sad isn't it.....


----------



## big country rnr

WolfPack said:


> Did anyone catch it this morning?  The outdoor channel just had a little talk about the most powerful enemy we face today....HSUS.  They have enough money to fund every animal shelter across the country!    Instead....the funds are targeted towards anti-hunting campaigns and etc...


We better stand up for each other they got alot of money but we got more voices!


----------



## olcowman

_"We better stand up for each other they got alot of money but we got more voices!" Quote _

Yeah but theirs sure seem alot louder? And when them voices are attached to folks like Pamela Anderson some folks seem to think they hold more credibility. I don't understand why a bunch of hollywood people think they got a dog in this fight to begin with. I seen that video going around the web with her and that hippy, I guarantee you her expertise could be better utilized pursuing other endeavors instead of worrying about whether or not I'm wearing leather shoes and eating pork chops.


----------



## gin house

WolfPack said:


> Did anyone catch it this morning?  The outdoor channel just had a little talk about the most powerful enemy we face today....HSUS.  They have enough money to fund every animal shelter across the country!    Instead....the funds are targeted towards anti-hunting campaigns and etc...



 gee, didnt somebody try to beat this into a few heads the last couple of days?????  research them, they dont hide much, it will blow your mind.


----------



## gin house

*yep*



big country rnr said:


> We better stand up for each other they got alot of money but we got more voices!



 i agree but the first step is to put the right people in office, their money is worthless if you have good politician that are for the peple and not for themselves in office, after all they are the ones who have the final say as to what happens.  crooked government is gonna determine the outcome,  i hope the outcome is better than the condition theyve got us into today economicly and as a country.


----------



## gin house

olcowman said:


> _"We better stand up for each other they got alot of money but we got more voices!" Quote _
> 
> Yeah but theirs sure seem alot louder? And when them voices are attached to folks like Pamela Anderson some folks seem to think they hold more credibility. I don't understand why a bunch of hollywood people think they got a dog in this fight to begin with. I seen that video going around the web with her and that hippy, I guarantee you her expertise could be better utilized pursuing other endeavors instead of worrying about whether or not I'm wearing leather shoes and eating pork chops.



  she ought to forget animal rights and go apologize to the people she gave hepatitis to  and look for a cure for hepotitis,  i dont know exactly which one but she does have it,  must have cought when she was in the porn industry.


----------



## JackJack77

gin house said:


> i agree but the first step is to put the right people in office, their money is worthless if you have good politician that are for the peple and not for themselves in office, after all they are the ones who have the final say as to what happens.  crooked government is gonna determine the outcome,  i hope the outcome is better than the condition theyve got us into today economicly and as a country.



Very true, NO MATTER how loud our voices are, or how many emails/letters we write...if the folks high up in the political world that have the power and the money are crooked and greedy...then its just gonna be a hard road to hoe. Think about it, PETA along with HSUS, are established parties/groups that are backed by DEEP pockets. In the world we live in now *Money *seems to talk louder than anything.


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## koyote76

its also interesting to see the history of hunting dogs for big game and how the political aspect has changed. it used to be celebrated by kings and royals of the old times and only the rich and noble were pretty much allowed to hunt the russian boar or bear with dogs on grounds that were forbidden to the common people. now a days is seems the big game hunting with dogs esp hog doggin is done by the blue collar man with the ppl in the considered royal class(politicans, celebrities, etc) look down at the blue collar man and his dogs. its interesting to see how the roles have switched. now im not saying that only blue collar ppl hunt with dogs. thats not true on many levels, but in the mass majority i believe what i have said is true in the sense that in todays times doggin hogs is a blue collars mans sport. look at how many voices peta has on thier side that are celebs,politicans,sports stars and look at how few there our sticking up for our sport. not many and if they are they arent very outspoken about it due to the the mass amount of informed and judgemental people who would see the dogs working a hog and here that pig squeal and qucikly associate them with falcons ex qb micheal vick. and they would try to throw them in the same pit as they did him. i also belive that the pig squealing is what amplifies ppls missunderstanding about our sport because its such a dramtic noise that ppl quickly associate with some sort of horror movie. ppl have been brain washed by the media,disney type movies, cards, tee shirts, decorations, which leads to thinking that mother nature is beautiful and its not the fairy word as depected. as the saying goes every rose has a thorn.


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## koyote76

i will also note how peta also excells in portraying or sport. some times a little knowledge is worse than none at all. and by this i mean peta shows/tell ppl the only darkside of our sport. mainly they spread lies but what ever portion that is true of our sport is only told half sided. ppl see what peta shows them and they believe they are in some degree knowlegeable about our sport and they dont ever look at our side of the story, ppl tend not to research any further then what is shown in front of them which is how peta wins so many ppl over.


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## gin house

mainstream society sits in front of a tv nonstop in a apartment bldg in the middle of big citys where there isnt any woods, all concrete, shopping malls and such, if its an animal as small as a bird it has rights, they wouldnt understand any kind of hunting but would understand that youre cruel and demented for doing so.   ive seen many people like this and sadly ive seen a lot of them in my own town, thats sad.  animal rights is faught by peta and shus for their own intrest and the politicians intrest is only about the money they get for being their pupets.  if people really want to do something about our situation(im gonna do so this time around for a first) go research the local level all the way up as far as politicians running for office, question them and vote for the ones that back us, they are out there but like you and i they too are pushed aside for their love and beliefs of hunting, lets back them. after all, they are out only chance.


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## Jester896

how is it HSUS can choose which animals it wants to off and we can't loose a good dog once and awhile


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## gin house

Jester896 said:


> how is it HSUS can choose which animals it wants to off and we can't loose a good dog once and awhile



 good question jester


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## Jester896

sometimes i even amaze me


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## koyote76

Jester896 said:


> sometimes i even amaze me



are we just posting now  to see how many post we can get on this thread. hahhaha


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## Jester896

koyote76 said:


> are we just posting now  to see how many post we can get on this thread. hahhaha



sorry...I thought I was following the general topic of this thread...I will refrain from future posts to it


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## koyote76

Jester896 said:


> sorry...I thought I was following the general topic of this thread...I will refrain from future posts to it



haha jester it was a joke. you of all ppl should know about that. i was just referring to the fact that im surprised this thread has lasted and not banned with the usual Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.


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