# Anchoring in a Storm?



## Mechanicaldawg

The situation with the 4, now 3 men missing from their capsized boat has brought about a friendly debate amongst my friends.

When at sea, in a small boat, should you anchor in heavy seas and winds?

Let's get all the "you should not be out there in the first place" out of the way. Granted, you should not be out there. However, "stuff happens".

Just for the example's sake let's assume the weather and seas are forecast to be perfect when you leave but Mother Nature changes her fickle mind and throws a blow at you.

You then lose your power.

Wind is 20+. Waves are 6-10 or higher.

You are in a 20-32' center console.

You have no "sea anchor". 

Do you drop anchor?

Why?

Why not?

Is it a commonsense thing?

Is there a written rule?

Is the correct answer in a course book somewhere?

Let's hear it!


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## volguy

*big seas*

This is why I encourage everyone to take the 8 hour coast guard course offered by the coast guard auxillary.  All of this stuff is covered.

If you catch yourself in big seas when a storm blows up (anyone that has spent a lot of time on the big water has had this happen, just maybe not out 40-50 miles) you keep your motor running at all times.  you always run your boat at a 45 degree angle to the waves.  you don't want to go straight on, but at an angle.  once your motor is out of gear or broken down, you have no control in a boat.  no different than when you pull up to a dock or loading a boat on a trailer, once the motor is out of gear, all control is lost.  with that said, you WOULD NEVER anchor in seas over 2-3 feet because water can come over the front or hit you from the side and capsize the vessel.  now if you are inshore and something happens and you are finding yourself being pulled out to sea very quickly, you then put out an anchor, but not in high seas.  that is why the coast guard strongly recommends an anchor or a trolling motor on any vessel.

these are just a few of the tips they go over in coast guard class.  if you plan on operating anykind of vessel in saltwater, you should take this course.  it has tons of great info.


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## Wild Turkey

1st mistake, going out in 6' plus seas in a 21' boat.
2nd mistake, going out without a personal locator/epirb
3nd mistake, anchoring the boat unless your motor is dead.
4th mistake , leaving the boat.


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## MudDucker

Whether you anchor depends upon your boat, amount of anchor line and the seas.  Best thing is to have a sea anchor to keep your boat turned into the wind if the motor fails.  The very best thing is not to take your butt out there when the weather is predicted to be bad.


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## Mechanicaldawg

Wild Turkey said:


> 3nd mistake, anchoring the boat unless your motor is dead.



This is THE question.

Assuming the motor was dead, should they have been at anchor in a 21' CC?


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## volguy

*anchoring*

as stated above, they should not have been anchored.  from the reports i have heard, they were anchored which would explain the boat capsizing.  when you anchor in waves over 2 feet, a wave will hit you and toss the boat sideways in some form or fashion.  then, the next wave will hit you in a different spot sending the boat in another direction.  eventually a wave will hit just right and flip the boat because it is going all different ways.  

to be safe, you can try this out on lanier on a saturday in the summer.  go anchor up on the edge of the main channel and see what happens.


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## milltown

I've never been out on the ocean but I wouldn't think anchoring would be a very smart thing to do.  With waves that big your boat would fill up with water pretty quick.


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## dawg2

No anchor with a dead motor!


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## Mechanicaldawg

dawg2 said:


> No anchor with a dead motor!



Why?


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## Mechanicaldawg

volguy, thanks for your input, btw.

I agree with your posts. I'm just looking for more input including references to validate your/our position.


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## Wild Turkey

Without motor power you are most likely to get cross current or downcurrent and roll/flood your boat.
With the anchor down you turn your bow into the waves and have better control. Not control but better than without.
put on your life jacket, grab a rope to tie off with and drop the anchor. Boat will eventually roll and at that time you get wet and have a rope to tie off to the boat. Hope the boat doesnt go completely down.

Regardless anchoring without power is a last resort marginal call. Drifting free is worse.


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## Coastie

Anchoring, under any conditions is never impossible, merely impractical in some situations. The formula of using an anchor line 7 times the depth of the water must be increased considerably if any kind of a sea is running and most small boats just don't have the equipment required to do that safely. A sea anchor may be jury rigged from many things aboard even a small vessel, coolers, clothing,spare PFDs, bedding, sleeping bags, tackle boxes even the regular anchor rigged on a short line so it will drag rather than hold could serve to save your bacon. If you lose your engine a sea anchor may be the only thing that you can do, beyond that you are at the mercy of the sea. If you do capsize, the best thing to do is to stay with the boat if at all possible, the lone survivor in this most recent situation (so far) stayed with the boat. The boat will sometimes sink, but most often will stay afloat for longer than most people think. PFDs, survival suits and life rafts go a long way in insuring survival, but again many if not most small boats will only be equipped with PFDs which if not worn are next to useless. Since none of us were there, we will likely never know exactly what happened in this situation but boats this small and smaller have survived storms far worse than the conditions reported in this incident. Sometimes, stuff happens.


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## shortround1

Mechanicaldawg said:


> The situation with the 4, now 3 men missing from their capsized boat has brought about a friendly debate amongst my friends.
> 
> When at sea, in a small boat, should you anchor in heavy seas and winds?
> 
> Let's get all the "you should not be out there in the first place" out of the way. Granted, you should not be out there. However, "stuff happens".
> 
> Just for the example's sake let's assume the weather and seas are forecast to be perfect when you leave but Mother Nature changes her fickle mind and throws a blow at you.
> 
> You then lose your power.
> 
> Wind is 20+. Waves are 6-10 or higher.
> 
> You are in a 20-32' center console.
> 
> You have no "sea anchor".
> 
> Do you drop anchor?
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Is it a commonsense thing?
> 
> Is there a written rule?
> 
> Is the correct answer in a course book somewhere?
> 
> Let's hear it!


limitless and a group of us go at least that far. we have all the emergency equipment, go out when the weather is stable in a 23 foot mako. I just think these guys werent fishing, sorry thats my gut feeling, anchor this!


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## Doyle

Survivor reported that they were trying to lift the anchor when they capsized.  In my opinion, they should have never anchored in the first place.   In a worst case scenario, you can make a very servicable sea anchor from scrap material on hand.  In fact, if you tie a life jacket around an anchor and tie a bucket to the lifejacket, it makes a very effective sea anchor.


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## Nautical Son

Coastie has given the most correct answer so far. You can safely anchor a boat in 20 ft waves it just takes a lot more rode than anybody ever has on a boat that size. In theory you would put out 2 anchors in a V shape and if you have one put one out off the stern. This is the correct way to anchor any boat in preparation for a hurricane, the idea is that you have out enough line to allow the boat to rise and fall with the waves.

Everyone going offshore should carry an epirb that activates automatically, and always make sure someone knows where you are going and when you should be back.

Volguy, I have been in the Lanier situation on my sailboat   (30') when one of the big ol 40 something ft cruisers came by at half plane, it rocked our boat from side to side so bad I was sure it was gonna go over and touch the mast spreaders in the water, our luck we weren't anchored so I was able to quickly turn into his wake, between sets.


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## dapper dan

From first hand experience. 2 anchors is a good idea. Lots of chain to keep the flukes in, great idea. EVer try pulling an anchor off the bottom with alot of chain. A CG 41ft UTB carries 300ft of 2 3/4 double braid nylon, with 9 ft of 1/2 galvanized BBB chafe chain. Connected to a 24lb danforth. Calm conditions let out 3to 5 times the water depth rough seas 7 to 10. But even better don't be out there. Pulling up alot of line and heavy anchor and chain sux. Plus is dangerous without a winch. You definitly need someone holding onto your lifejcket to make sure you dont fall in. If you are in real bad shape and have no other choice, cut the anchor line. Also if you are in a bad situation, call THE COAST GUARD. They will help you. If you are afraid for your life, trust me, then so is the CG. Get them on the radio and give them a lat and long. They may just check in with you every half hour. Or they may send somebody out there for you. This SAR case cost millions of dollars. It doesn't matter if they were in the NFL or the saturday softball league they were just people.


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## Mechanicaldawg

Good dialogue guys.

I'm learning quite a lot.

Here is a link to a great thread on the FS board that yields a great deal of good info, More on furnishings for a ditch bag than anchoring but a great, timely read:

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=841602


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## dawg2

TGattis said:


> Coastie has given the most correct answer so far. You can safely anchor a boat in 20 ft waves it just takes a lot more rode than anybody ever has on a boat that size. In theory you would put out 2 anchors in a V shape and if you have one put one out off the stern. This is the correct way to anchor any boat in preparation for a hurricane, the idea is that you have out enough line to allow the boat to rise and fall with the waves.
> 
> Everyone going offshore should carry an epirb that activates automatically, and always make sure someone knows where you are going and when you should be back.
> 
> Volguy, I have been in the Lanier situation on my sailboat   (30') when one of the big ol 40 something ft cruisers came by at half plane, it rocked our boat from side to side so bad I was sure it was gonna go over and touch the mast spreaders in the water, our luck we weren't anchored so I was able to quickly turn into his wake, between sets.



You should NEVER put one off the stern in a hurricane. It will sink your boat.


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## Coastie

I know it's expensive, but you are worth it. Buy a copy of Chapmans Seamanship and study it, a lot of excellent information in there and it could save your life.


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## MudDucker

volguy said:


> as stated above, they should not have been anchored.  from the reports i have heard, they were anchored which would explain the boat capsizing.  when you anchor in waves over 2 feet, a wave will hit you and toss the boat sideways in some form or fashion.  then, the next wave will hit you in a different spot sending the boat in another direction.  eventually a wave will hit just right and flip the boat because it is going all different ways.
> 
> to be safe, you can try this out on lanier on a saturday in the summer.  go anchor up on the edge of the main channel and see what happens.



Sorry you failed the coast guard auxiliary test and you will not be getting your sticker.   Nothing wrong with anchoring if you got the right equipment and if you have the right equipment, it is often advisable.  Of course, that is after you have violated rule #1, which is don't do unless you have the right equipment to handle the worst likely weather you will encounter.


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## Sharkfighter

I fish over near shore reefs in 2-3ft seas which was what was predicted when the guys left.  They were out a bit far for their boat but they allegedly had made that run safely before.  I typically anchor my boat and had never had a problem with the waves that size.

When seas unexpectedly pick up and have been there when they have, I head back in.  hard to believe that two NFL and two College football players were having trouble pulling up an anchor like Doyle reported.  I mean if it had been me and I had that much trouble I would cut the rope rather then be swamped out there.  I mean I don't make NFL type money but its not worth my life for an anchor and rode.  As far as Doyle saying that they never should have been anchored if they were bottom fishing structure it shouldnt have been a problem just should have got out sooner.  If motor wouldnt start should have hit the radio and flares.

Thanks to coastie for the suggestion of tying off to the boat.  I hadn't ever thought of that but tying off to the boat with a long line with a quick release knot AND of course the PFD makes sense.  I could see how in 6 or 7 ft waves it would be hard to hold on to a swamped boat and once you were off of it (especially if it was anchored) getting back to it would be almost impossible.  Staying with the boat definatly makes sense both for floatation, avoiding sharks, and getting seen by rescue aircraft.

By the way 2-3 ft seas predicted by Mr NOAA on Sat with low wind and warm sunny skies.  I hope to be hitting CCA or KC reef if anyone else is heading out that way (or if anyone in Richmond Hill area wants to split gas costs drop me a PM).

Oh and where /when can I take this 8 hr coast guard course?

Rob


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## Doyle

They abandoned the search today.  As to the 2-3 ft predicted seas, I call balony on that one.  I don't know where the news report got its prediction from, but that 2-3 ft would have been for near shore only.  We had a cold front approaching and the wind was already starting to pick up when I went to work at 7AM (and I'm about 60 or so miles south i.e. further from the approaching front).  I would have never planned a trip that far offshore with an approaching front and I had a 25 ft Dusky that is way more seaworthy than that dinky Everglades they were in.


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## Big7

Doyle said:


> Survivor reported that they were trying to lift the anchor when they capsized.  In my opinion, they should have never anchored in the first place.   In a worst case scenario, you can make a very servicable sea anchor from scrap material on hand.  In fact, if you tie a life jacket around an anchor and tie a bucket to the lifejacket, it makes a very effective sea anchor.



True!
And... If you get in trouble AFTER you have anchored
for a while (when you should have told someone where you are going and where to look) while CG and AF
and everybody else is looking for you....

CUT THE ROPE! 
STAY WITH THE BOAT!

A C-130 can see the boat better than you. 

Hope those guys make it.
I don't think the other three will.


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## dawg2

Big7 said:


> ...
> 
> CUT THE ROPE!
> STAY WITH THE BOAT!
> 
> ....



Been there (several times) done that!!!  NEVER leave the boat, unless it goes DOWN.


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## Trooper

Were the guys in the 21' anchored off the stern or the bow?Just a curious thought? I was up the hooch once fishing the shoals above Franklin when a fellow came pulling up about 25 ft from me.(For those who have never been there the current is very swift)He threw his anchor and immediately tied it off the stern.Before I could say "what the ????? are you doing?,The boat tightened up and it went down.The guys hand was still wrapped around some of the rope and it pulled him down too.Another boater and I rushed to his aid and was able to pull him out of the water.The force pulled him down so hard it ripped the flesh from one of his fingers and he was in shock.One boat took him to the bank while another onlooker joined me,and we went and cut his anchor line.We were able to get his boat to the side(upside down) and flip it,bail the water,and towed to the ramp.Meanwhile he was being driven to the hospital.This recent story in the news just made me think of the near tragedy I witnessed almost 10 yrs ago this spring.Respect the water....


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## dawg2

Trooper said:


> Were the guys in the 21' anchored off the stern or the bow?Just a curious thought? I was up the hooch once fishing the shoals above Franklin when a fellow came pulling up about 25 ft from me.(For those who have never been there the current is very swift)He threw his anchor and immediately tied it off the stern.Before I could say "what the ????? are you doing?,The boat tightened up and it went down.The guys hand was still wrapped around some of the rope and it pulled him down too.Another boater and I rushed to his aid and was able to pull him out of the water.The force pulled him down so hard it ripped the flesh from one of his fingers and he was in shock.One boat took him to the bank while another onlooker joined me,and we went and cut his anchor line.We were able to get his boat to the side(upside down) and flip it,bail the water,and towed to the ramp.Meanwhile he was being driven to the hospital.This recent story in the news just made me think of the near tragedy I witnessed almost 10 yrs ago this spring.Respect the water....


...and never anchor from the STERN!!!


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## Coastie

Sharkfighter said:


> Oh and where /when can I take this 8 hr coast guard course?
> 
> Rob



Boating courses are taught by the USCG Auxilliary, the Red Cross and the U.S. Power Squadron (if they exist in your area) Check the internet or the phone book for contacts and sign up for a course. Much of it may seem like a review of things you already know, but there will be a lot of useful information as well.


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## Coastie

The latest news headline that I have seen indicates the at least two of the individuals on the boat just "Gave up". We were told in boot camp, years ago, that a lot of sailors died in WWII simply because they just gave up hope and couldn't/wouldn't fight any longer to survive. Never give up! I know that is a lot to ask under some circumstances but it is a major factor in your survival. Men have survived for extended periods of time in the water and on makeshift rafts and disabled vessels simply because they didn't give up hope.


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## bany

Coastie said:


> The latest news headline that I have seen indicates the at least two of the individuals on the boat just "Gave up". We were told in boot camp, years ago, that a lot of sailors died in WWII simply because they just gave up hope and couldn't/wouldn't fight any longer to survive. Never give up! I know that is a lot to ask under some circumstances but it is a major factor in your survival. Men have survived for extended periods of time in the water and on makeshift rafts and disabled vessels simply because they didn't give up hope.



amen!


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## sureshot375

Here is a link to the coast gaurd aux. class finder for the south east  http://cgaux7.org/boating_classes_public/

I took the georgia boaters ed course many years ago so i could use a pwc.  It was pretty basic.  I would like to take a more advance course sometime.


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