# black panther=fact or fiction?



## chad3775 (Jul 2, 2005)

I hear it all the time about panthers in south ga, but never seen one...or heard of any one have pics of one on a trail cam a trail cam...


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## deepsouthtech (Jul 2, 2005)

My mom and I saw what we both believed to be a black panther once in Swainsboro several years ago.


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## Goat (Jul 3, 2005)

Several years ago my grandfather had what was thought to be a panther come thru and get some goats. DNR came out and took molds of the paw prints and they said thats what it probably was. The space between prints and the size were huge. Also, a man living on the farm said he saw it. This was near Conyers.


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## leo (Jul 3, 2005)

*Yep*



> black panther=fact or fiction?


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## bull0ne (Jul 3, 2005)

I think this will answer you question.....

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=20248&highlight=mountain+lions


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## raghorn (Jul 3, 2005)

chad3775 said:
			
		

> I hear it all the time about panthers in south ga, but never seen one...or heard of any one have pics of one on a trail cam a trail cam...


I saw what I'm about 99% sure was a regular tan colored cougar in 1989 in Gilmer county, but due due to lighting and weather conditions I couldn't swear it was , but at 30 yds. its hard to mistake . Having said that, If I ever see another one I will take one for the team and pay the fine ...........Just kidding Mr. Warden


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## HT2 (Jul 3, 2005)

*Chad.........*

_FICTION!!!!!!!!!!!!_


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## Schulze (Jul 3, 2005)

considering I know people that have seen them has photos but Auburn Universityu says they dont exist. I geuss if it dont fit in to their tiny little world UGA included it dont exist. After all they thought the celocanth was extinct.


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## captainhook (Jul 9, 2005)

I saw one around Tampa FL in broad daylight in the eighties. I've never seen one in Ga but in the river swamp on one of our properties I regularly saw cat tracks the size of a man's fist in the road.


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## Coastie (Jul 10, 2005)

Schulze said:
			
		

> considering I know people that have seen them has photos but Auburn Universityu says they dont exist. I geuss if it dont fit in to their tiny little world UGA included it dont exist. After all they thought the celocanth was extinct.



They may not exist in manageable numbers, but they undoubtedly do exist. There are too many reports by knowledgeable people to ignore the probability. I think many biologist tend to ignore species that are marginal in population and therefore difficult to study and manage. When reports come in of an animal that doesn't fit their idea of something they can do something about, they try to bury the evidence under a layer of academic or beurocratic nonsense and hope it goes away.


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## labman (Jul 10, 2005)

There have been three sightings in our area in fl that they say were Black panthers I dinn't see the cats but friends of mine swear it was black. We have regular panthers around have seen and heard them before.


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## Nick_T (Jul 10, 2005)

How much more proof ya need?

Nick T


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## marknga (Jul 10, 2005)

Well Well Well it comes up again. Nothing would make me happier than for several of us being able to photograph, shoot or capture some of these big cats. I know that I saw one in the early 80's in Twiggs County, not black but a full grown Tawny Tan colored long tailed cat. Here is a link to a thread started by my dad where he shares his encounter. You know it takes alot of to shake up my dad and the morning when this happened he called and told me he was plenty shook up. 
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=6118

I love the way that some of you guys can call somone a stone faced liar from behind a keyboard.........can't wait till we can get proof.

Mark


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## ramblinrack (Jul 10, 2005)

Nick_T said:
			
		

> How much more proof ya need?
> 
> Nick T




well....at least we have proof of delton's bigfoot now.


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## edge (Jul 10, 2005)

Oh, boy!!!! This one just won't go away...


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## CAL (Jul 10, 2005)

I love the way that some of you guys can call somone a stone faced liar from behind a keyboard

Mark,
I for one would never call your Dad or anyone else a liar just because I have never seen what they say they have.There are lots of things that I have never seen that others have.

Many years ago ,I heard a person tell of a long tail black cat that ran in front of his car crossing the road.I have never seen any kind of animal as such myself.I have seen a track in the mud that some kind of cat made and it was big.A farmer friend was telling about it one morning and I was doubtful.I went with him to the place and he showed me the track!A small coffee cup would not cover the track up either.

I do know a Cougar was turned loose in the Okeefeenokie Swamp area with a radio collar on and was tracked to Cordele,Ga. where it went west to the Chattahochee river and back south of Richland where it was captured.I have friends that witnessed this.They were deer hunting and saw the cat several times before it was caught.In all of the animals travels,I wonder how many people saw it?This was several years ago.


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## Craig Knight (Jul 10, 2005)

I do know that mountain lions do exsist in Ga. not alot of them ,but there's a few. Black panthers on the other hand I personally don't believe in. Till I see one for myself I say BULL-ONEY


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## Coastie (Jul 11, 2005)

Craig Knight said:
			
		

> I do know that mountain lions do exsist in Ga. not alot of them ,but there's a few. Black panthers on the other hand I personally don't believe in. Till I see one for myself I say BULL-ONEY



"Black Panthers" are the melanistic phase of the everyday variety of Mountain lion, Cougar, Puma or whatever moniker he is known by in any of the many areas in which he exists. Some claim they are a sub-species, I don't know since I am not a biologist, but they do and have existed forever. If it makes you feel better, call it a Black Cougar. Since there are so few Cougars in Georgia and Florida, it would stand to reason that the melanistic trait would be even more rare, yet the possibility, even probability of them being there is very real.


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## Timberman (Jul 11, 2005)

> "Black Panthers" are the melanistic phase of the everyday variety of Mountain lion, Cougar, Puma or whatever moniker he is known by in any of the many areas in which he exists. Some claim they are a sub-species, I don't know since I am not a biologist, but they do and have existed forever. If it makes you feel better, call it a Black Cougar. Since there are so few Cougars in Georgia and Florida, it would stand to reason that the melanistic trait would be even more rare, yet the possibility, even probability of them being there is very real.



Only spotted or rosetted cats like a Jaguar can exhibit that melanistic phase you speak of. There has never been a documented "black" or even very dark american mountain lion ever, or whatever you want to call it, even in areas where they are abundant. Jaguarundi or Ocelot!


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## RThomas (Jul 11, 2005)

> black panther=fact or fiction?



Fact- they can be seen in many zoos and in Africa.
In Georgia? Fiction.


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## turkey foot (Jul 11, 2005)

My wife and I saw one in broad daylite in Talbott county this year. It was the standard tawny colered panther that we are familiar with here in Florida.

It was only about one hundrd fifty yards in front of us and casually crossed the road while looking at us.

Don't anyone try to claim it was a bobcat, unless Ga. bobcats have a three foot long tail and shoulders as muscular as a linebacker. This one was full grown and probably weighed 100-125 lbs.


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## bull0ne (Jul 11, 2005)

marknga said:
			
		

> I love the way that some of you guys can call somone a stone faced liar from behind a keyboard.........
> 
> Mark



Amen......most of the naysayers are from the Atlanta-metro area........i would'nt expect to see one in the concrete jungle either


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## RThomas (Jul 11, 2005)

> most of the naysayers are from the Atlanta-metro area........i would'nt expect to see one in the concrete jungle either



Some of use actually venture out into the wild on occasion.


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## FESTUSHAGGIN (Jul 11, 2005)

i think i might have seen a couple of em downtown atlanta,  im not sure but it think they got a website too.http://www.blackpanther.org/


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## RThomas (Jul 11, 2005)

"I'm sorry I had to fight in the middle of your Black Panther party." ~ Forrest Gump


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## Jriley (Jul 11, 2005)

Does anybody remember the picture of the guy in GON a few years ago with a huge cougar he killed up in the Cohutta Wilderness? I think they figured out that it was a pet that someone released after it got too big to handle. I think the fact it was declawed gave that away.


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## Jriley (Jul 11, 2005)

I also remember a story about a guy who got arrested after shooting a cougar that had been released by the Feds somewhere around Augusta. This was while I was a reporter at the Forsyth County News in the mid 90's.


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## ryanwhit (Jul 12, 2005)

Jriley said:
			
		

> Does anybody remember the picture of the guy in GON a few years ago with a huge cougar he killed up in the Cohutta Wilderness? I think they figured out that it was a pet that someone released after it got too big to handle. I think the fact it was declawed gave that away.




This is usually the case with panthers in GA.

I can't speak for all biologists, but this one, as well as most others that I've talked to, aknowledge that there are most likely wild mnt lions in various parts of GA.  They certainly used to be here in large numbers prior to major white settlement.  It is highly likely that they are able to exist in the N GA mnts, rural extreme S GA, and maybe an adjuct population in middle GA similar to the black bear.  

However, most sightings and reports of lions end up being pets that have been released.  Lion cubs are readily available on the black market.  They commonly have their front feet declawed and their canines removed.  Many a lion encounter ends with a recaptured pet.

As far as black panthers go...as far as I know, there's no such thing.  I'm not saying you or your friend, or your mom's childhood best friend's sister-in-law's hairdresser's husband didn't see one when he was driving home from the bar.  I'm only saying that as far as I know, they biologically don't exist.  It may be possible for a lion to have a darker coat and look black (melanism that's been discussed), and I'm not sure if melanism is a trait only in the spotted cats or not.

If they do exist...why no pictures, trail camera pictures, roadkills, hunter kills, sightings by "officials", hair in hair sample collection stations set up for bear research (a little dna from hair would tell us right quick).

Somebody prove me wrong.  Please!  I think it would be cool if they do exist.  I don't think that the scienific community is closed-minded towards it, I just think that proof has not been shown.


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## Lawnmowerman (Jul 12, 2005)

*Black Panther*

FACT, seen one here in Central Ga. several years back. Jumped up, in, around trees like you aint never seen, and gone in about 5 seconds..  Guess it coulda been a small black bear, (black as coal) but I don't think they can move as fast as this one was moving,!!!..


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## Jdub (Jul 13, 2005)

*Fact (Kind of)*

Have seen a few over the years (in Florida), my father in law saw a one on a couple of occasions last year and I believe he was able to get a picture or two of it, I'll check. 

From what I understand there are no "black panthers" per say but there are Florida Panthers (a subspecies of a Mountain Lion) and are said to range into GA.


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## todd pursley (Jul 21, 2005)

I hunt in fulton county which is the same county that atlanta is in. there has been reports that there has been a panther seen crossing the road where i hunt but I have never signs except for there is an old barn on our propery that is very hiden way away from the nearestroad that we use to climb up inbefore deer season and watch the deer in huge feild and last year the first time out to watch for deer from the ld barn we found a yearling deer in the loft that had been dead a couple of week and was probally only have eaten the best we could tell.The only answer we could come up with is that the panther every is supose to be seeing might


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## devolve (Aug 8, 2005)

7 or 8 years ago I saw a black panther tear up a turkey in chuluota FL(outside orlando). Last year I saw tracks of a large cat in apalachicola FL.

--cjc--


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## DSGB2000 (Aug 17, 2005)

Well I have been huntin and heard some screams that would make any man think twice about coming down outta his pine tree. It sounded like a woman screaming at the top of her lungs and it could be heard in the next county. Some guys I talked to said "yeah its those panthers" and I was like ok whatever but who knows whats roaming around in the woods while we're here typin.


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## blindhog (Aug 18, 2005)

I was talking with a customer yesterday who has a 12000 acre lease  near Hosford Fla, on hwy 20.  Several members himself included claim they have more than one black panther on this lease.  He is trying to get some pictures for me. Also bears are becoming numerous, along with many hogs.

Lions and tigers and bears!  OH MY!!


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## Trizey (Aug 18, 2005)

Why did the State of Florida used to have "Black Panther" license tags?  I believe they even used to have a black panther portraited on the tag


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## slightly grayling (Aug 18, 2005)

ryanwhit said:
			
		

> This is usually the case with panthers in GA.
> 
> I can't speak for all biologists, but this one, as well as most others that I've talked to, aknowledge that there are most likely wild mnt lions in various parts of GA.  They certainly used to be here in large numbers prior to major white settlement.  It is highly likely that they are able to exist in the N GA mnts, rural extreme S GA, and maybe an adjuct population in middle GA similar to the black bear.
> 
> ...




I suspect most folks that could actually prove the scientific community wrong don't care enough to make the effort.....I am a scientist and if folks were telling me I didn't see what I know I did, I wouldn't care either!  The screams DGSB200 described are classic and I have heard them as recently as 5 years ago in rural southeast Georgia.  I believe they are probably still there and I am not so arrogant to think that if they are there I will see them before they see me.  As far as photos etc....Georgia is a big State with a lot of rural hard to get to places.....I suspect the  odds are against this unless a large concerted effort were made.  Ft. Stewart alone is one of the largest Army bases in the US, mostly wooded, so why wouldn't they be there and not seen?  Just my opinion....
-SG


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## RJY66 (Aug 18, 2005)

My opinion FWIW.....

I really don't have a hard time at all believing that someone could see a tawny colored cougar in Georgia.   It is part of their historical range.  Plenty of deer for them to eat, and I suppose enough areas that still have the substantial amount of wilderness that such a cat would require, like North Ga mountains.  I have not been up there in about 8 years, but I assume Atlanta has not yet sprawled over all of them??  As previously posted, it could be a formerly tame cougar released into the wild by some jerk.  

The black ones are harder to accept.  If it is a melanistic version of a cougar, that would have to be extremely rare, even if there was a large population of standard tawny cats.  Again perhaps some sort of exotic that was formerly tame which escaped or was released?  Then again, as many as have claimed to see them would require at least several of these animals to have been introduced.  As Yogi Berra would say, I'll believe it when I believe it.


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## DS7418 (Aug 18, 2005)

up here on Cohutta WMA, we have about 
95000 acres..
and myself and a few other older hunters have seen the tan colored "eastern cougars" over the years. I know people think we are lying,, but if
we ever get a shot in......
Opps>> I think they are on the protected species list.
Soo,, if they don't even exist,, i wonder how they made the list...hmmm


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## bull0ne (Aug 18, 2005)

One point that has been overlooked about the black cat reports is the angle of the sun,if a person is looking into the sun and the veiwing side of a deer or cat is shaded both will appear much darker than they really are.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Aug 19, 2005)

*Ga Big Cats*

OK Guys,
I'm going to add fuel to the fire...Nothing current, but when I was teenager
(long ago), I had a friend whose Grand parents owned a large farm which was
located between Fayetteville and College park, and we camped/fished in
the ponds that were on this piece of property...
There was a big screened pavilion on the largest lake where we slept in to
avoid bugs (and snakes), and on several occasions this summer (1968)
(OK, I'm old)...We heard VERY loud (and close) cats....More than one...
We always had 22s and shotguns for snakes and turtles, so as long as we stayed in the screen pavilion we thought we were safe....
We caught lots of catfish (did not eat them) and turtles and always hung
them on big cable his grandad hung up....More than once the fish dissappeared during the night...
And several times we found tracks on the spillway where the pond drained.....

Guys, I know this was over 30 years ago, but I remember his Grandad tell us
"these big cats were here when I was a kid, and they will be here long after
i am gone"...Further, he said..." I have wild (feral) cats around my barn that I dont feed.".."They are there to eat rats"..."You dont hardly see them, but I know they are there"...Same with the BIG cats....

Just because you cant see the ( or their tracks) doesnt mean they are not 
there....Big cats and bears have been in Ga, a long time, and will remain..
They are here...There are enough animals for them to survive, and we
all know how elusive normal "house cats" can be....Just imagine a species
that has avoided humans for countless generations....They can see, hear and
have sense of smell countless times better than deer....

We all see lots of deer tracks in the woods, but how often do we actually
go to a hunting area and NOT see deer....Where did they go ????
They are there, they just hear, smell, or see us before we get there....
Big cats are even more cautious...

They are here!!!!

Just something to think about as you walk to your tree stand this year 
before daylight !!!   

7mah hunter


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## PHIL M (Aug 19, 2005)

Even house cats are good survivers!


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## edge (Aug 22, 2005)

That looks like one of those rare, albino black panthers....


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## Professor (Aug 22, 2005)

I saw one in 1985 in western Coweta County between Newnan and Arnco for those that are familiar with the Area.  We had seen these huge cat tracks while scouting in late summer.  Late one evening I saw movment while on my stand.  After a pause of several min. I saw it again and it was black, or at least a deep golden/black.  I saw him in the clear at 100 or so yards for about a min.  A few weeks later my brother and a friend took a trip to the dumpster and said "as we pulled up a huge black cat jumped out from behind the dumpsters and crossed the road in one bound." From the discription it was the same cat. With tail it was 5 or six feet long and weighed maybe 80 to maybe a 100 lbs


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## kcausey (Aug 22, 2005)

*I posted this back in May.......*

(((The main question was about a difference in cougars, mt lions, pumas, and panthers.......big Black cats are just simply melanistic cougars or what have you....as it states at the bottom of my old post, there is no such sub species that is black.....it basically happens like an albino)))



a puma is the exact same as Mt. Lion, Cougar, panther, or any other names that have been givin to the big cats in North America. If it says "black leopard," then it is wrond about the north american species. Every picture, with truth envolved, that you will find on the net of a big black cat, says something like this....."this large black cat is a melanistic large cat."

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/bco/fact2.htm

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/puma.htm

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/jaguar.htm

these two sites will totally explain everything.......what year encyclopedia are you using anyway?

There are a total of 19 subspecies of mt lion.....none of which are black by natural color.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Professor (Aug 22, 2005)

Yes, what I saw was a golden/black cat.  The Black Jag. Black Lepard. Black Panther are just cats with melanistic features.  

Still, my grandparents refered to all of them as painters. Some were black and some were not.

The Black Jaguarundi (a small cat in Texas) however does come in Black.  This cat may be culprit.


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## Ga-Spur (Sep 4, 2005)

No Professor that is not the culprit at all , not the jaguarundi cat. I have seen one out in the open for 10 seconds . It was jet shiney black and was bigger than any Mountain lions I have seen in zoos and at the county fair .


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## Dub (Oct 6, 2005)

Absolutely Yes.......


Black sighted in Girard, GA (Burke Co) by myself while deer hunting three years ago.   A fellow I hunt with also saw one three miles away while riding his ATV.


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## rusty_bucket (Oct 10, 2005)

Ok before I even post this I know that there is no way for me to substantiate my claims other than I saw what I saw.

I was camping in Brooks County Georgia last summer.  We had been sitting around the campfire for 3 or 4 hours shooting the sh** when we decided to take a Jeep and ride some dirt roads.  We had left the plantation that we were camping on and were about a mile down a dirt road when a large black cat crossed the road 15 yards in front of us.  

We stopped the jeep and stared at each other speechless for a few minutes.  I have seen numerous bobcats in the wild and this was a much larger animal with a different body frame.  Much longer and sleek, not to mention the long bow shaped tail.  None of us had ever heard of a Black Panther so we didn't know what we had seen.  We got out of the jeep and looked at the tracks.  They were huge.  Much larger than bobcat or feral prints.   Wish I would have known to make a cast of the prints because they were perfectly preserved in the damp sandy soil on the dirt road.  

We all knew we had seen something rare but we did not realize until a few weeks later (after telling our story to friends and family) that we had truly seen something special.  I have never heard of a big cat being seen this far south in georgia.  Anybody?


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## Clint Shook (Oct 11, 2005)

I saw what I think was a black panther in the swallow creek WMA about 8 yrs ago while coon hunting.


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## MSU bowhunter (Oct 11, 2005)

A really good friend of mine got a shot at one over in Alabama last season...he missed, it was running at about 500 yards.  I'll def. believe him if he said that he saw one.  

Not to mention a handful of other guys that have sighted them in the area.


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## Son (Oct 11, 2005)

*Black Panthers? Big black Cats?*

Yeah, we see 'um dead on the roads around here all the time. There's so many of 'em the county has a special truck that goes around and picks 'em up so motorist don't have to smell 'em.   
But South Florida wont have to worry about those big black cats cause the Pythons will eat 'em up.
Reminds me of a time in 1960 when a Navy buddy and I were hitchiking through the West Va mountains to spend a few days at his family farm in Pendleton Co. It was dark as we walked down the mountain road hoping for a ride. I ask Olin, "Any bears in these parts"? he paused for a spell, then said "Nope, The mountain lions keep them scared off". And instantly I felt more secure with my surroundings.


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## Ga-Spur (Oct 11, 2005)

Ya'll young fellars ought to put some cameras along the swampy streams in isolated areas to get a picture. When I saw one it was right before the general population could buy a "game camera". I know they need thousands  of acres to roam without encountering humans. This cat was within 4 miles of the town square but the area was perfect for a large cat. A big swamp drainage area that led into pine plantations and then the Broad River . Most people didn't go into this area for years on end. There were a lot of turkeys , deer , rabbits , ducks , beaver and smaller game for a cat to thrive on. They did for 30 years that I know of and then a housing development drove them out by building around the home range stream of the cats. Kind of sad not to be able to hear them anymore.


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## coon dawg (Oct 12, 2005)

*.........*



			
				Clint Shook said:
			
		

> I saw what I think was a black panther in the swallow creek WMA about 8 yrs ago while coon hunting.


ya sure it wasn't some dudes short eared black and tan that needed to eat more groceries??


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## edge (Oct 12, 2005)

Not to stir the pot (not me)...

but...

would a reasonable and prudent person be altogether wrong ...to suggest ...that one who took a shot at a running cat at 500 yards ...might possibly be subject to having his judgement questioned? Just asking...'cause I sure wouldn't suggest it...but some folks would. 


but not me


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## Son (Oct 13, 2005)

*Black Panthers*

I think I finally saw one. He was about a mile off, around a curve and quickly vanished in the underbrush. And you ask, "Just how far can you see Son"? Well, how far is the Moon?


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## kcausey (Oct 13, 2005)

*Running at 500 yards*

I have 20/13 vision and i don't even know how far 500 yards is in the field.  I did see an unethical hunter in Taylor County hit a dog at what we range-found 417 yards....running.  (This was in the early 90's.) I saw the dog running first and quite frankly it looked like some brush blowing across a cotton field.

I have already spoken my peace about cougars in Georgia...so I ain't stirring the pro or con pot any more.


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## Condor (Oct 21, 2005)

*Cougar sighting in Heard county*

I am in a club near Esphus, Ga which has very steep terrain.   This year we noticed that some of the trail cams had pictures of deer which looked like they had raked areas of fur on their backs which we could not explain.   Apparently the club next to us has got a picture of a mountain lion on a trail cam from the last 2 weeks.   I did not eyeball the picture personally so I don't know if it was black or the dark brown pictures that you normally see.    I wonder what a mountain lion does to the already scarce deer population.


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## Branchminnow (Oct 21, 2005)

Get those pics posted we want to see them!


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## ghoterman (Oct 28, 2005)

There seems to be a "black panther" in every county in Georgia.Just ask anyone in a hunting lease & they know somebody who knows "some guy" who saw one.Actually, the black phase of a cougar is extremely rare.These people have seen too many Tarzan movies featuring black leopards & I can assure you there are no leopards in Jawja.I don't know why this myth seems to be so popular, especially when everybody knows that the carcajoos killed out the Georgia black panthers years ago.


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## edge (Oct 29, 2005)

Yeah, you're right about the "black phase of the cougar being extremely rare".....

So rare, in fact, that there is no verifiable record of ANY "black" cougar being killed anywhere....including the western states where WE KNOW there is a huntable population....and hundreds are killed every year....regular, run of the mill, plain, unexciting, boring story cougars, that is. So, with so many in THAT place, and no black ones, how come we have so many HERE, when we have no reproducing population...(read "reproducing" again...)
Yes, there have been the occasional Florida evacuee roaming above the border, and a few pets over the years...but if there was a breeding population, there would be no doubt...carcasses would be on the roads, and hunters would be charged with shooting, etc. etc. etc. One of the "best" arguments people give for these animals NOT being seen, is that they have adapted so well, and are so secret, and so intelligent, blah blah blah....That is a good one. COULD there be some wild cougars in GA? Sure.....

but no one has produced any hard evidence. We're not talking about a "spiritual" being here, we're talking about a mammal common to much of the U.S.    

Oh well....the debate will never end.

er


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