# Pre-Ordained Salvation



## PWalls (Oct 21, 2004)

Co-Worker of mine is an old-time, hard-line Baptist (not a general Southern Baptist). He believes that God has pre-ordained who will go to Heaven before the creation of the world. He bedlieves that you don't have to make a proclamation of faith in Jesus and be saved to go to Heaven. Basically, God has already decided who will and who won't go to Heaven.

That is his answer to the question when he is asked about the African tribesman that has never had a chance to hear about Jesus. That is also his answer to people that say they are saved and then question their salvation. He believes that nothing we can or can't do will affect our salvation since it has been pre-ordained before creation.

I see the logic in this belief and I have read some passages (Ephesians) that say this, and I would really listen to this more openly, if there weren't so many passages about accepting Christ as th eonly way to go to Heaven.

Also, a pre-determination of who will and who won't go to Heaven seems like a cruel and unloving God to me. Did he flip coins or what. I have always believed that we can all go to Heaven and that he wants us to all go to Heaven.

I haven't gotten into too much history with him, but he says at one point most Baptist churches were founded on his beliefs (changed in late 1800's to early 1900's  for some reason).

What are your thoughts?


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## mpowell (Oct 21, 2004)

i believe in the new covenant with the Lord.  I don't subscribe to the the notion that someone is already saved though they've done none of the requisite actions to garner their salvation.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Oct 21, 2004)

II Peter 3:9 says that God is "not willing that any should perish".   You are correct....If God predestines certain people and we have no choice in the matter, then the New Testament is virtually a lie.    Too many scriptures point to 'faith' being the key to pleasing God.   

Easy to twist scripture.   My grandfather used to argue with me saying that Joseph's brother did not sell him, but that some merchants came by and took Joseph out of the pit.    Even though I could show him the err of his thinking he died believing that these merchants stole Joseph.    "I am Joseph, whom you sold".   LOL

Bandy


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## duckbill (Oct 21, 2004)

I believe the term is "calvanism".  I do not subscribe to the notion either.  I believe God "knows" who will or will not accept salvation, but I do not believe certain people were chosen to go to Heaven and others to go to ****.


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## reylamb (Oct 21, 2004)

The Scripture of predestination is flawed.  Yes, God knows from the beginning of time who will and will not accept His Son.  However, he does not force us to be saved.

We are taold that salvation comes "by faith, through grace," not "by the force of God."

It is like this.  I can put 2 bowls on the kitchen table, one filled with broccolli and one filled with ice cream.  I can then tell my 5 year old daughter, go in the kitchen and choose one bowl, and you can eat whatever is in the bowl you choose.  I know that every time she will choose the ice cream, yet I did not force her to do it.

Man, in our finite mind, can not always grasp the omniscience of God.  Did he foreknow?  Certainly, we are told as much in the NT.  Did he force it upon us?  Certainly not.


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