# Would you let yourself be crucified?



## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

If you were in Jesus' sandals; if the fate of all humanity was in the balance, would you let them crucify you?  (Knowing that you would be resurrected fresh as a daisy in three days and ascend into Heaven).


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

Yes. I'd do it if only the fate of those I loved directly were in the balance.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

Provided it would save them and not be a sacrifice in vain.


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Yes. I'd do it if only the fate of those I loved directly were in the balance.


You wouldn't do it for a stranger?


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Provided it would save them and not be a sacrifice in vain.



Same rules as Jesus had.  Not everyone is saved.  Only those who call you God.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> You wouldn't do it for a stranger?



I would if it would certainly save them, I was merely saying that even in smaller scale, not the whole world, I'm not opposed to sacrificing myself for the benefit of others. 

I let go of my rights to my kids because I could see that my ex would never let me, or them, have peace until I was out of the picture. Her goal was to entrap me and strip me of them and I sacrificed my relationship with them to prevent them from seeing that.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Same rules as Jesus had.  Not everyone is saved.  Only those who call you God.



Different kind of saved. I'm purely referring to something akin to a hostage situation whereby my death they are released unmolested for the remainder of their natural lives.


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Different kind of saved. I'm purely referring to something akin to a hostage situation whereby my death they are released unmolested for the remainder of their natural lives.



Would it be easier to sacrifice yourself if you knew that you would come back better than ever 3 days later?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Would it be easier to sacrifice yourself if you knew that you would come back better than ever 3 days later?



Normally I would say yes but then I think...What really changed when Jesus was put to death? He died for our sins....Okay the slate was wiped clean...but I'd bet not ten seconds after his passing someone was sinning again and it has continued ever since. So.....we all have to STILL believe, have to STILL repent, have to STILL do all the things that keep someone in the good graces of God....or ELSE!!!!

I cannot come to believe it is a sacrifice unless someone loses something dear to them.

I doubt anyone that says yes to the question would do it if upon death they still took away the burden for the living ones they "saved" but instead of going to spend eternity in Heaven...they spent it in h3ll.

The first way...die, resurrect, go to Heaven....no sacrifice at all...it is a promotion after a minor inconvenience. There are kids/people in this world that suffer much worse in one day without the Suite in the clouds to be whisked away to.


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## TripleXBullies (Jan 9, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> I let go of my rights to my kids .........
> ...... I sacrificed my relationship with them to prevent them from seeing that.



May be off topic, but those are different things. You sacrificed parental rights/primary custody, or you sacrifieced your relationship??


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## TripleXBullies (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Would it be easier to sacrifice yourself if you knew that you would come back better than ever 3 days later?



Of course. Torture me for 3 days to save people I don't know from torture for the rest of eternity..


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## 660griz (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> If you were in Jesus' sandals; if the fate of all humanity was in the balance, would you let them crucify you?  (Knowing that you would be resurrected fresh as a daisy in three days and ascend into Heaven).



No. It doesn't make any sense to me now and it probably wouldn't then. Now, with the proper mushroom enhancement...maybe. 

Still doesn't make sense why an all powerful God would have to result to something as primitive as "sacrificial lambs". Yikes. I'll pass.

What's next? A virgin so the crops will grow? 

If however, there was a real threat to all humanity or some humanity, and my life(one life) would save many innocent, then yes, I would.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jan 9, 2014)

If I was Jesus? I would have never let them invent nails....


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jan 9, 2014)

'course Spock sacrificed himself in that one Star Trek, the one where they shot him out into space in the big sunglasses case. "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one", or some such foolishness.


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## 660griz (Jan 9, 2014)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> 'course Spock sacrificed himself in that one Star Trek, the one where they shot him out into space in the big sunglasses case. "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one", or some such foolishness.



Oh yea. The Democrat episode.


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> 'course Spock sacrificed himself in that one Star Trek, the one where they shot him out into space in the big sunglasses case. "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one", or some such foolishness.




He was miraculously re-born as well.  Where do they come up with this stuff?


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> He was miraculously re-born as well.  Where do they come up with this stuff?



I'll be darned, I had forgotten that part.


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## 660griz (Jan 9, 2014)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> I'll be darned, I had forgotten that part.



Holy Easter Batman! Is Spock Jesus?


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> May be off topic, but those are different things. You sacrificed parental rights/primary custody, or you sacrifieced your relationship??



Yes to both. I can't see them, talk to them, or know anything about them. My lawyer even told me that I couldn't send them as much as a postage stamp as a result. That might be hyperbole, but I ain't about to push it.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Would it be easier to sacrifice yourself if you knew that you would come back better than ever 3 days later?



No, I'd sacrifice myself, given the proper circumstances like I've said above, pretty easily even if it meant that I was always gone.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

My answer would not apply because I believe Jesus had faith that God would raise him from the dead


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> My answer would not apply because I believe Jesus had faith that God would raise him from the dead




Interesting point.  I think I would go through with it even if I stayed dead.  To save the WORLD?!?  No brainer.


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## drippin' rock (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> My answer would not apply because I believe Jesus had faith that God would raise him from the dead



Which begs the question,  why all the romance around the sacrifice idea?


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Which begs the question,  why all the romance around the sacrifice idea?



Man!  I wish someone would step up to the plate and tackle this.  Is it REALLY a sacrifice if you know that it will turn out hunky dory?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> My answer would not apply because I believe Jesus had faith that God would raise him from the dead



Did Jesus need faith? I would think at times since he was God he would have the knowledge of God and if not he surely would have been clued in to the game plan.

Interesting thought: Could Jesus have not known anything about his destiny and was living as "normal" a life as he thought it could be? Could he have felt a calling but not known the exact role he would play?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Man!  I wish someone would step up to the plate and tackle this.  Is it REALLY a sacrifice if you know that it will turn out hunky dory?



Exactly!

If Jesus took the Sin of mankind away but had to spend eternity separated from his Father.......that is a sacrifice.


Kid...take the rap for breaking this window, you will get a scolding but I will buy you a new Jeep Wrangler...... to use a  Clara Peller-esque  saying "Where's the Sacrifice??"


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## ted_BSR (Jan 9, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> If you were in Jesus' sandals; if the fate of all humanity was in the balance, would you let them crucify you?  (Knowing that you would be resurrected fresh as a daisy in three days and ascend into Heaven).



As an everyday average mortal human it is hard to answer this question. I would like to think I have that kind of attitude, but I can't know for sure. Unlike Christ, I would probably put up a heck of a fight, and have taken a few of the usurpers with me. Christ could have gotten everyone of them. Christ surrendered for us all...

Whether he knew he would be resurrected or not (I believe He did), it did not make the torture any easier.

On sort of a parallel note, if the Gestapo came to my door and put a gun to head and told me I must renounce my faith, I would take the bullet. Of course if they tried to take my guns, I would put up a heck of fight, and try to take as many of them with me as I could.

I just can't compare my imaginary response to what Christ did. It is like asking if a snail could fly, would it?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> As an everyday average mortal human it is hard to answer this question. I would like to think I have that kind of attitude, but I can't know for sure. Unlike Christ, I would probably put up a heck of a fight, and have taken a few of the usurpers with me. Christ could have gotten everyone of them. Christ surrendered for us all...
> 
> Whether he knew he would be resurrected or not (I believe He did), it did not make the torture any easier.
> 
> ...



What if the Gestapo came to your door to take your guns, the entire neighborhood stood outside watching....when you opened the door you put up a fight but are quickly overwhelmed and the neighborhood watches the Gestapo take every single firearm you own out of the house, put them into a Van (or dump truck...not sure of your collection) and drive off?
You are then hauled off by the Gestapo and the neighbors cheer you on for being defiant and standing up for yourself. Your whereabouts unknown.
Three days later you, reunited with all your loved ones, are out on your new thousand acre farm complete with sporting clays, skeet and trap range, tactical pistol and rifle course, shooting range from 7yds to 1000yds, all your guns back PLUS any other firearms you desire including Class III weapons with as much ammo as you can possibly go through in a lifetime....as per the deal you and the Gestapo made 33 years earlier..........

Yeah I'd kick and scream to put on a good show too.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Did Jesus need faith? I would think at times since he was God he would have the knowledge of God and if not he surely would have been clued in to the game plan.
> 
> Interesting thought: Could Jesus have not known anything about his destiny and was living as "normal" a life as he thought it could be? Could he have felt a calling but not known the exact role he would play?


I have always said the same thing. If he knew he would rise again, then he is basically just acting out a script. But the difference here is that I don't believe Jesus is God but rather that Jesus had great faith based on his knowledge of the scriptures. Things like "you will not let your holy one see decay". When I point out verses about Jesus having faith.. or praying, the Christians get uncomfortable because it does not fit their theolgy.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> What if the Gestapo came to your door to take your guns, the entire neighborhood stood outside watching....when you opened the door you put up a fight but are quickly overwhelmed and the neighborhood watches the Gestapo take every single firearm you own out of the house, put them into a Van (or dump truck...not sure of your collection) and drive off?
> You are then hauled off by the Gestapo and the neighbors cheer you on for being defiant and standing up for yourself. Your whereabouts unknown.
> Three days later you, reunited with all your loved ones, are out on your new thousand acre farm complete with sporting clays, skeet and trap range, tactical pistol and rifle course, shooting range from 7yds to 1000yds, all your guns back PLUS any other firearms you desire including Class III weapons with as much ammo as you can possibly go through in a lifetime....as per the deal you and the Gestapo made 33 years earlier..........
> 
> Yeah I'd kick and scream to put on a good show too.



Flying esophagus?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I have always said the same thing. If he knew he would rise again, then he is basically just acting out a script. But the difference here is that I don't believe Jesus is God but rather that Jesus had great faith based on his knowledge of the scriptures. Things like "you will not let your holy one see decay". When I point out verses about Jesus having faith.. or praying, the Christians get uncomfortable because it does not fit their theolgy.



Very good....now you have ME thinking.

In your thoughts do you think then Jesus was the Son of God without God-like powers but what happened to him was as the Bible says...crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and as God planned?
OR
Do you think Jesus was a very knowledgeable about scriptures, devoting his life to their study, felt close to God and thought he was carrying out the prophesies but in his final moments realized that he was just a man being punished for his actions and he felt forsaken? And quite possibly his followers felt the same that he was as prophesy foretold but after his death embellished the stories a bit to fit?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> Flying esophagus?



I don't know what you kids are calling it with your hip sayings nowadays, but if that is a YES then I'll take it.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Which begs the question,  why all the romance around the sacrifice idea?


I hold a different view of the sacrifice. LOL, imagine that. Not that he died for the sins of the world but rather redeemed us from the curse of "you will surely die" as the firstborn among many brothers. The biblical tradition has the firstborn being offered to God to redeem the remainder of the family. Something I need to ponder a bit to tie up loose ends is that this tradition did not result in death.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Very good....now you have ME thinking.
> 
> In your thoughts do you think then Jesus was the Son of God without God-like powers but what happened to him was as the Bible says...crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and as God planned?
> OR
> Do you think Jesus was a very knowledgeable about scriptures, devoting his life to their study, felt close to God and thought he was carrying out the prophesies but in his final moments realized that he was just a man being punished for his actions and he felt forsaken? And quite possibly his followers felt the same that he was as prophesy foretold but after his death embellished the stories a bit to fit?


I will have to break this down. The easy first. Yes, on embellished, reverse engineering. Overzealous attempts to prove he was pointed to in the OT. Such as Matthews 14, 14, 14 generations that was not so. Many examples exist that do not come to mind but consider the opposite. The "tent peg" from Iasiah. Only because it did not fit was it not included as one of the socalled 1000 prophesis fullfilled. I could ramble on, but other points to adress. Next post


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Very good....now you have ME thinking.
> 
> In your thoughts do you think then Jesus was the Son of God without God-like powers but what happened to him was as the Bible says...crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and as God planned?
> OR
> Do you think Jesus was a very knowledgeable about scriptures, devoting his life to their study, felt close to God and thought he was carrying out the prophesies but in his final moments realized that he was just a man being punished for his actions and he felt forsaken? And quite possibly his followers felt the same that he was as prophesy foretold but after his death embellished the stories a bit to fit?


I think Jesus became the son of God at his baptism. Not that he was born son of God, that Luke unknowingly made him a demigod by the virgin birth story. He held no God like powers, that it was just as he said that the works they saw was only God working in him. This post probably needs much more detail so I will break down these opinions if you wish


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## ted_BSR (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I don't know what you kids are calling it with your hip sayings nowadays, but if that is a YES then I'll take it.



Nope. It is nonsense.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Very good....now you have ME thinking.
> 
> In your thoughts do you think then Jesus was the Son of God without God-like powers but what happened to him was as the Bible says...crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and as God planned?
> OR
> Do you think Jesus was a very knowledgeable about scriptures, devoting his life to their study, felt close to God and thought he was carrying out the prophesies but in his final moments realized that he was just a man being punished for his actions and he felt forsaken? And quite possibly his followers felt the same that he was as prophesy foretold but after his death embellished the stories a bit to fit?


I do not think that Jesus felt as though he was being punished for his actions. Rather that he was being unjustly killed for starting a revolt. This masterminded by those he had offended, which was prophesied in the scriptures


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> Nope. It is nonsense.



Ted, now you know how I feel.


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I do not think that Jesus felt as though he was being punished for his actions. Rather that he was being unjustly killed for starting a revolt. This masterminded by those he had offended, which was prophesied in the scriptures



I am following you.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Very good....now you have ME thinking.
> 
> In your thoughts do you think then Jesus was the Son of God without God-like powers but what happened to him was as the Bible says...crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and as God planned?
> OR
> Do you think Jesus was a very knowledgeable about scriptures, devoting his life to their study, felt close to God and thought he was carrying out the prophesies but in his final moments realized that he was just a man being punished for his actions and he felt forsaken? And quite possibly his followers felt the same that he was as prophesy foretold but after his death embellished the stories a bit to fit?


I could not say that he devoted his life to the scriptures, but he knew them. Maybe from his upbringing. Maybe from in depth study???? All through the scriptures, everyone misrepresented God. They used God as a reason to justify everything they did. If they won a battle, it was God, if they lost, it was Gods judgement. If they wanted something, they took it and wrote that God told them so. The priest fattened themselves with the guilt of the people. Religion was used  to rule, oppress, etc. Those religious of Jesus's day used religion to "make a name for themselves". Even after Jesus, religion continued to misrepresent God. Jesus represented God's original purpose for man. To worship God, stand in awe of him, etc. Not to rival God. Religion uses God to make a name for themselves. Everything is done for men to see. Everything is done to gain honor for themselves, not God. Jesus proved this was not his purpose. Unlike Moses who said "must I bring water from this rock", Jesus was careful to make sure that he said that he could do nothing, that it was the Father working in him, doing his work. And yet somehow, now that very idea of man not being a rival to God, that which Jesus would never do, has changed to people believing that he claimed to be God. "who do you say that I am" is the question to be answered?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I could not say that he devoted his life to the scriptures, but he knew them. Maybe from his upbringing. Maybe from in depth study???? All through the scriptures, everyone misrepresented God. They used God as a reason to justify everything they did. If they won a battle, it was God, if they lost, it was Gods judgement. If they wanted something, they took it and wrote that God told them so. The priest fattened themselves with the guilt of the people. Religion was used  to rule, oppress, etc. Those religious of Jesus's day used religion to "make a name for themselves". Even after Jesus, religion continued to misrepresent God. Jesus represented God's original purpose for man. To worship God, stand in awe of him, etc. Not to rival God. Religion uses God to make a name for themselves. Everything is done for men to see. Everything is done to gain honor for themselves, not God. Jesus proved this was not his purpose. Unlike Moses who said "must I bring water from this rock", Jesus was careful to make sure that he said that he could do nothing, that it was the Father working in him, doing his work. And yet somehow, now that very idea of man not being a rival to God, that which Jesus would never do, has changed to people believing that he claimed to be God. "who do you say that I am" is the question to be answered?



Still with you


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

Maybe a paraphrase of some verses that are hard to see because of preconceived ideas, might help. Have this mindset in you, While being in the form of God, no, but rather being in the image of God, Adam was made in Gods image but failed to represent that image, yet Jesus represented God to the world so well that he was credited with being the exact image, or exact representation. Unlike those before him that represented their mother eve, who wanted to be "like God" to rival him, those who rather than serve the people as God had asked, chose to have the people serve themselves, making themselves as a god on earth. Jesus humbled himself, taking on the nature of a servant. Being found as a man, realizing that he was a man, a mere man, made to serve God rather than rival him, he humbled himself, and served our ultimate need. He was obedient, to death on the cross, as per scripture prophesis. Therefore God displayed his character that whomever humbles himself, he exaults. Therefore he gave him a name above all others,  that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord/master, this all to the glory and approval of God the Father


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Still with you


These beliefs are not "orthodox", but a mere picture made from pieces of the bible that I put together. I'll admit that many pieces I discarded because they did not fit.


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> These beliefs are not "orthodox", but a mere picture made from pieces of the bible that I put together. I'll admit that many pieces I discarded because they did not fit.



yeah the "god" part is not really fitting with me and probably why I discarded it with much of the rest contained in the Bible.


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Maybe a paraphrase of some verses that are hard to see because of preconceived ideas, might help. Have this mindset in you, While being in the form of God, no, but rather being in the image of God, Adam was made in Gods image but failed to represent that image, yet Jesus represented God to the world so well that he was credited with being the exact image, or exact representation. Unlike those before him that represented their mother eve, who wanted to be "like God" to rival him, those who rather than serve the people as God had asked, chose to have the people serve themselves, making themselves as a god on earth. Jesus humbled himself, taking on the nature of a servant. Being found as a man, realizing that he was a man, a mere man, made to serve God rather than rival him, he humbled himself, and served our ultimate need. He was obedient, to death on the cross, as per scripture prophesis. Therefore God displayed his character that whomever humbles himself, he exaults. Therefore he gave him a name above all others,  that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord/master, this all to the glory and approval of God the Father



I like your version and it shows me that you put a lot of thought into it. Really it is a refreshing new insight for me.

It also makes me think, if your way is at all accurate, that most of the writings in the Bible are even more fabricated and embellished than I even thought and that the premise of God inspired is totally bogus....because they all got the story wrong about who Jesus is/was.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> yeah the "god" part is not really fitting with me and probably why I discarded it with much of the rest contained in the Bible.


History has shown that many people have believed in "gods". All sorts of gods. The reason Christians were disliked early on was their condemnation of those having many gods. Yet like yourself, not everybody does. Do you consider yourself Athiest, not believing in any god or agnostic, acknowledging that there may well be a god but that we just don't know?


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> History has shown that many people have believed in "gods". All sorts of gods. The reason Christians were disliked early on was their condemnation of those having many gods. Yet like yourself, not everybody does. Do you consider yourself Athiest, not believing in any god or agnostic, acknowledging that there may well be a god but that we just don't know?



I think the possibility of a God exists but I am not convinced it is necessarily an intelligent being. 
It could be...... I don't know....but if somehow it is I do not think it is/has been or will be involved in any specifics of our affairs as human beings other than we are a result of something it did 13.7 Billion years ago.

Random chance could be "God"
Nature could be "God"
The Big Bang could be "God"
Maybe sort of possibly something intelligent could be "God"

I am honest enough to admit that I do not know.
I am confident enough to admit that no version of man made religion has figured it out one iota more than I have.

And....Christians claim one God but will toss around the Trinity without batting an eye.
I doubt the early Christians did that but the modern Christians are a product of the pen.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I like your version and it shows me that you put a lot of thought into it. Really it is a refreshing new insight for me.
> 
> It also makes me think, if your way is at all accurate, that most of the writings in the Bible are even more fabricated and embellished than I even thought and that the premise of God inspired is totally bogus....because they all got the story wrong about who Jesus is/was.


I see inspiration differently. I'll use Solomon for a good example. Most look to his writings and think how smart he was and memorize his proverbs as if God inspired him to be our mentor. LOL, I hold to just the opposite. That God used him as an example. Mankind would all opt to take his place. He is a picture of mankind unbridled. This is where we would be if given everything we want. Solomon was a miserable man. He overturned every rock looking for some form of contentment. In the end he was envious of a simple man who held a simple job and had a loving wife. LOL, it cracks me up when people call Song of songs "the love chapter. Mercy, religion is blind. Solomon had no idea what love was. This is why he had so many wives. If they were not perfect, he would have had nothing to do with them. And LOL, his fatherly advice from Proverbs, LOL, he probably fathered so many children that he did not know their names. He was revered as the wisest man, he had everything, but failed at life. Other things; he was a brutal oppressor of the people. He had them serve him as if he were a god. This can be seen in a particular story of one of his sons where the people asked to lighten the burden and the son replied the his little finger is bigger than his fathers waist.


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I see inspiration differently. I'll use Solomon for a good example. Most look to his writings and think how smart he was and memorize his proverbs as if God inspired him to be our mentor. LOL, I hold to just the opposite. That God used him as an example. Mankind would all opt to take his place. He is a picture of mankind unbridled. This is where we would be if given everything we want. Solomon was a miserable man. He overturned every rock looking for some form of contentment. In the end he was envious of a simple man who held a simple job and had a loving wife. LOL, it cracks me up when people call Song of songs "the love chapter. Mercy, religion is blind. Solomon had no idea what love was. This is why he had so many wives. If they were not perfect, he would have had nothing to do with them. And LOL, his fatherly advice from Proverbs, LOL, he probably fathered so many children that he did not know their names. He was revered as the wisest man, he had everything, but failed at life. Other things; he was a brutal oppressor of the people. He had them serve him as if he were a god. This can be seen in a particular story of one of his sons where the people asked to lighten the burden and the son replied the his little finger is bigger than his fathers waist.



Thinking outside the box....excellent.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I think the possibility of a God exists but I am not convinced it is necessarily an intelligent being.
> It could be...... I don't know....but if somehow it is I do not think it is/has been or will be involved in any specifics of our affairs as human beings other than we are a result of something it did 13.7 Billion years ago.
> 
> Random chance could be "God"
> ...


I ask myself why the belief of God seems to be ingrained in my mind. As if I did not decide to believe, more as if it was put there??? Strange when I think about that. On the other hand, and this will sound religiously typical, regardless of assuming that the awesomeness of the universe defaults to "there must be a God", I can say that God has shown himself in my life. But to try to give examples can always be canceled out by others who have experienced similiar things "without God". So, always having correct change, always just making the yellow light, being born in America, is my proof. LOL


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I ask myself why the belief of God seems to be ingrained in my mind. As if I did not decide to believe, more as if it was put there??? Strange when I think about that. On the other hand, and this will sound religiously typical, regardless of assuming that the awesomeness of the universe defaults to "there must be a God", I can say that God has shown himself in my life. But to try to give examples can always be canceled out by others who have experienced similiar things "without God". So, always having correct change, always just making the yellow light, being born in America, is my proof. LOL



I often thought that if I was orphaned at a very early age, stranded on an isolated island yet somehow able to survive to adulthood.......Would I think of a God? Would I create a God? What would the God be? Would it be something material like the Sun, Stars, Moon, Wind, Clouds? Would it be something I imagined? Would I start with something simple and material and progress to something in my imagination. Would it be a God of my needs?
Then
If somehow in adulthood I got together with a female of the neighboring island that somehow had the same fate as me up to this point....what would she believe? Would our beliefs be similar? Would we blend our beliefs to become new beliefs? What would we tell our children?
Then
Did the first humans automatically think about the God of the Bible?  Did a certain culture start at a very basic level and progress to higher, better, more powerful Gods based off of what other people versions were and possibly in order to trump other versions of God(s)?? Did the God(s) progress as the people progressed?

All the different versions of God(s) of all the different people that believe in something lead me to at least be confident that No ONE God gave all the different people the same information of itself. The initial thoughts came solely from within their own minds. For the people that never even thought of a God(s) eventually they were told about a God(s) by someone else. They either went with it or created an offshoot that fit their needs.

I do not think any baby was ever born that already "knew" a God.
I also do not think in my above scenario that I would have put together the God of the Bible, nor any version of any other organized religions God..........if I thought of a God at all.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 9, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Ted, now you know how I feel.



No, I have no idea how you feel.


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## bullethead (Jan 9, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> No, I have no idea how you feel.



You are right so I will clarify a little. 
I feel the stories in the book you use for your beliefs are just as nonsensical as you believe the story I told to be.

My reply to those stories is Flying Esophagus


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

Maybe just maybe  "God" is a conglomeration/manifestation of every version within each individuals mind because if it ever happens that the population whittles down to zero and the last person dies the last remaining version of whatever a God is dies with them. ?-?-?


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 10, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I often thought that if I was orphaned at a very early age, stranded on an isolated island yet somehow able to survive to adulthood.......Would I think of a God? Would I create a God? What would the God be? Would it be something material like the Sun, Stars, Moon, Wind, Clouds? Would it be something I imagined? Would I start with something simple and material and progress to something in my imagination. Would it be a God of my needs?
> Then
> If somehow in adulthood I got together with a female of the neighboring island that somehow had the same fate as me up to this point....what would she believe? Would our beliefs be similar? Would we blend our beliefs to become new beliefs? What would we tell our children?
> Then
> ...


LOL, you remind me of myself, the way you ponder over things, creating examples in your mind to test a theory


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> LOL, you remind me of myself, the way you ponder over things, creating examples in your mind to test a theory



Well I know when I have free time on my hands, like while sitting for extended periods while hunting, I do not conjure up nor have epiphanies about things that I have never heard of before. I do think about things that I have admittedly heard of before and experienced so my brain is already filled with possibilities but had I been isolated with only my own thoughts I doubt one day I would be building a hut and then all of a sudden have an instantaneous version of a super being pop into my head.

Do you think you would be any different?


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 10, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Well I know when I have free time on my hands, like while sitting for extended periods while hunting, I do not conjure up nor have epiphanies about things that I have never heard of before. I do think about things that I have admittedly heard of before and experienced so my brain is already filled with possibilities but had I been isolated with only my own thoughts I doubt one day I would be building a hut and then all of a sudden have an instantaneous version of a super being pop into my head.
> 
> Do you think you would be any different?


I am leaning the other way, that if raised by wolves on a deserted island, having no teaching or preconceived ideas, that I might, through looking at the awe of the stars/creation, conclude a form of "god".


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I am leaning the other way, that if raised by wolves on a deserted island, having no teaching or preconceived ideas, that I might, through looking at the awe of the stars/creation, conclude a form of "god".



In what way? In your mind would that God take your form as you are unique to all the other creatures around you? 
Or
Being that you would have no formal language skills and probably be familiar with barks, growls and howls would you think there is a "pack leader" up in the sky or out across the water?


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## ted_BSR (Jan 10, 2014)

bullethead said:


> You are right so I will clarify a little.
> I feel the stories in the book you use for your beliefs are just as nonsensical as you believe the story I told to be.
> 
> My reply to those stories is Flying Esophagus



I knew that part.


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> I knew that part.





ted_BSR said:


> No, I have no idea how you feel.



Can't recycle bandwith


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 10, 2014)

bullethead said:


> In what way? In your mind would that God take your form as you are unique to all the other creatures around you?
> Or
> Being that you would have no formal language skills and probably be familiar with barks, growls and howls would you think there is a "pack leader" up in the sky or out across the water?


LOL, you reveal my assumptions again. Thinking further, I might realize the importance of the sun and conclude that the sun is god


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> LOL, you reveal my assumptions again. Thinking further, I might realize the importance of the sun and conclude that the sun is god



I appreciate your willingness to talk about it and the honesty. Thanks 1gr8
It's refreshing


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## ted_BSR (Jan 10, 2014)

bullethead said:


> Can't recycle bandwith



So, now you feel that you have caught me in a lie, or a mistake, and you feel better about yourself because of it, and the fact that you have pointed it out for all of GON to see. I'm gonna take a break for awhile.


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## bullethead (Jan 10, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> So, now you feel that you have caught me in a lie, or a mistake, and you feel better about yourself because of it, and the fact that you have pointed it out for all of GON to see. I'm gonna take a break for awhile.



ROTFLOLOLOLOLOL
Forgive me but I heard your reply in the voice of James Earl Jones and Malcom McDowell as portrayed in the Sprint commercials........Like adults reciting kids lines......

Lighten up Ted, I was just busting your stones.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 12, 2014)

bullethead said:


> ROTFLOLOLOLOLOL
> Forgive me but I heard your reply in the voice of James Earl Jones and Malcom McDowell as portrayed in the Sprint commercials........Like adults reciting kids lines......
> 
> Lighten up Ted, I was just busting your stones.



I don't have TV, so I don't know what commercial you are talking about. Back to sleep, goodnight.


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## bullethead (Jan 12, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> I don't have TV, so I don't know what commercial you are talking about. Back to sleep, goodnight.



If only there was some device instead of a TV that you could use.....???  Maybe a device that is hooked up to the internet where you could search the actors names along with the words Sprint Commercials...??? Sleep tight.


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## 660griz (Jan 12, 2014)

If only 1 person on island, there would be no need for God. You don't see others die, or suffer, or steal, etc. No one to get under 'control', or exploit. No one demanding answers because they are aware of their mortality and feel they must be better than all the other animals. Just living until you die. What a concept.


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## bullethead (Jan 12, 2014)

660griz said:


> If only 1 person on island, there would be no need for God. You don't see others die, or suffer, or steal, etc. No one to get under 'control', or exploit. No one demanding answers because they are aware of their mortality and feel they must be better than all the other animals. Just living until you die. What a concept.



I thought about that too. I wondered if the loss of a friend or loved one caused the earliest humans to turn grief into a belief. Coupled with other human traits it is not hard to see how beliefs can snowball.


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## 660griz (Jan 12, 2014)

bullethead said:


> I thought about that too. I wondered if the loss of a friend or loved one caused the earliest humans to turn grief into a belief. Coupled with other human traits it is not hard to see how beliefs can snowball.


Grief into belief = hope. 
Islander 1:"They died" I don't want to die." "I will never see them again...boo hoo" 

Islander 2: "Oh, of course you will. We will all be reunited upon death in a much better place than this. No more surviving, we can just live and have all of our needs taken care of." 
Islander 1:"Will Obama be President?" 
Islander 2: "Maybe but, don't call him that."


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## StriperrHunterr (Jan 13, 2014)

How about the Trinity? The Father, *The SON*, and the Holy Ghost. 

In other words, God WAS Jesus during that time, if the Trinity is to be believed. I don't know how the logic of that works out, or the implications for the sacrifice and any understanding/consequences of it, but that was just a thought of mine.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 23, 2014)

bullethead said:


> If only there was some device instead of a TV that you could use.....???  Maybe a device that is hooked up to the internet where you could search the actors names along with the words Sprint Commercials...??? Sleep tight.



I woke from my nap to say that this is the whole point. I don't want to watch TV. If I want to kill that many brain cells all at once, I could smoke crack, or huff paint, or participate in internet forums. Maybe I'll just keep on napping...

OH, OH, but what about all that INFORMATION I am missing out on...

Yeah, what about it?


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## Terminal Idiot (Jan 23, 2014)

@ted
You just can't help yourself can you. Too funny.


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## bullethead (Jan 23, 2014)

ted_BSR said:


> I woke from my nap to say that this is the whole point. I don't want to watch TV. If I want to kill that many brain cells all at once, I could smoke crack, or huff paint, or participate in internet forums. Maybe I'll just keep on napping...
> 
> OH, OH, but what about all that INFORMATION I am missing out on...
> 
> Yeah, what about it?



Sooooooo you participated in an internet forum in order to tell me you think participating in internet forums kills brain cells.......


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