# The Demise of American Christianity



## centerpin fan (Apr 2, 2015)

> Despite Church attendance and cultural affectation we are living in a neo-pagan nation.



http://www.redstate.com/2015/04/02/demise-american-christianity/


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## gordon 2 (Apr 2, 2015)

Interesting. Thanks. I think that the wars in the 20th century, especially the two great wars and others ( Middle East wars, Vietnam, and recently Iraq) really tested people's faith. It was like all the orthodox prayers from the middle ages and the Reformation were for nothing--- as witness the lined up human beings for the slaughterhouses.

Add to this systemic social injustice, Zionism, fanatical Islam and abuse of christian believers by their leaders, the church meddling  inappropriately in politics and the emergence of countless cults in the world made smaller by mass media, the philosophies of relativism, the emergence of the science of spin for political motives whereby lies and no longer lies ---it is a wonder more people are not at a loss regards genuine fellowship.

It is what it is. In some other ways it also reminds me of 18th century Europe or the effect of the Enlightenment on believers.

But on the  positive side, thank goodness we have Obama.


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## Lowjack (Apr 3, 2015)

Thousands of Christians are beheaded in the Middle East and Africa , The Church is silent and continues everyday as if nothing is happening , the same the church did during the Holocaust and millions of Jews and Christians killed , how long before they come after us in the US .
Radical Islam has training camps in Georgia , what are you doing about it ? Have you contacted your Senator ?


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## bearpugh (Jun 12, 2015)

most churches, especially on tv, are more concerned with being motivational speakers than the word of god. only positive messages instead of facing the hard stuff. gods word never changes. and what is pc has nothing to do with it.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 12, 2015)

I think it's time for a new enlightenment in America.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 12, 2015)

centerpin fan said:


> http://www.redstate.com/2015/04/02/demise-american-christianity/



While I agree that Christianity in America is declining this poll is biased towards a Trinitarian works based Christianity as defining Christianity. 
Maybe they asked a bunch of Jews or Oneness believers. Regardless it is geared towards a works based Christianity vs a grace based Christianity. 
It focuses on living a certain way instead of focusing on Love saying things like "can you be a Christian if you ______?"

It's biased that only people who follow his beliefs are Christian. 

While it is true that many in the poll don't have a clue as to who Jesus is, I can assure you many people of past generations have never had a clue as to who Jesus is.
The good thing about Christianity is; one only has to believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died because we can't quit sinning. Even if we could quit sinning we still can't work our way to Heaven and thus need salvation in the form of a Messiah. 
The poll only proves that poor old black women are more Christian than the rest of us. 

Redstate.com appears to have some type of political agenda and are using Christianity as their false platform.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 12, 2015)

As America shifts from Christianity, should the Red States try to recruit conservative Jews, Hindus, and Muslims away from the predominately poor old black female conservative Christian Democratic states?
Meaning, if the poor old black women understand who Jesus is. Who are we to argue?


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## ministeringa (Jun 14, 2015)

Lowjack said:


> Thousands of Christians are beheaded in the Middle East and Africa , The Church is silent and continues everyday as if nothing is happening , the same the church did during the Holocaust and millions of Jews and Christians killed , how long before they come after us in the US .
> Radical Islam has training camps in Georgia , what are you doing about it ? Have you contacted your Senator ?



Amen. Yes i have but they do not care.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 17, 2015)

I firmly believe that the main factor in the decline of Christianity in America, especially among the younger generations, is its steadfast denial of proven science. When someone claims something isn't when it can plainly be seen that it is, it does much to discredit the whole message of that person or institution. That seems to be the main sticking point with most non-believers, but even that fact is denied by many Christians.


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## stringmusic (Jun 17, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> I firmly believe that the main factor in the decline of Christianity in America, especially among the younger generations, is its steadfast denial of proven science. When someone claims something isn't when it can plainly be seen that it is, it does much to discredit the whole message of that person or institution. That seems to be the main sticking point with most non-believers, but even that fact is denied by many Christians.



Yes, many young people today worship science and scientists and beleive they have zero bias or agenda in many of their "findings".

Apart from the age of the earth controversy, where else do you think Christianity is denying proven science?


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 17, 2015)

stringmusic said:


> Yes, many young people today worship science and scientists and beleive they have zero bias or agenda in many of their "findings".
> 
> Apart from the age of the earth controversy, where else do you think Christianity is denying proven science?



Evolution for one. Hard to argue with bones and common sense and direct observation. Noah's Ark for another. You could make a list a mile long. Some of the things that people state as fact because it's in the Bible just seem silly to most people who think about things instead of blindly accepting what they were told, which is more and more people as time goes on.  I don't think it's worshiping science at all as much as simply believing evidence of what you can see with your own eyes instead of something that contradicts what you see with your own eyes written down a couple thousand years ago by people who weren't far out of the Stone Age and had all kinds of ideas about how things worked that have since been proven wrong. The church used to maintain that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth and such like, and considered it heresy to say otherwise. It will need to adapt to today's findings, just like it did then, if it is to survive. I don't understand why people deny evolution by natural selection, when you can see it in action today. Or deny fossils that are there to see. What if God created life on Earth by the process of evolution? That may have been his plan.  How long is a day to God?

You can flame me if you like, but when folks tell fundamentalist Christians why they don't believe the same things they do, they often don't want to listen, and make up some other reason why folks are rejecting religion that suits their preconceived ideas better. But for a large part, it's just simply what I said. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, but they contradict each other frequently, and people tend to believe proven things over speculative matters of faith that go against common sense and direct observation.


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## stringmusic (Jun 17, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> Evolution for one. Hard to argue with bones and common sense and direct observation. Noah's Ark for another. You could make a list a mile long. Some of the things that people state as fact because it's in the Bible just seem silly to most people who think about things instead of blindly accepting what they were told, which is more and more people as time goes on.  I don't think it's worshiping science at all as much as simply believing evidence of what you can see with your own eyes instead of something that contradicts what you see with your own eyes written down a couple thousand years ago by people who weren't far out of the Stone Age and had all kinds of ideas about how things worked that have since been proven wrong. The church used to maintain that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth and such like, and considered it heresy to say otherwise. It will need to adapt to today's findings, just like it did then, if it is to survive. I don't understand why people deny evolution by natural selection, when you can see it in action today. Or deny fossils that are there to see. What if God created life on Earth by the process of evolution? That may have been his plan.  How long is a day to God?
> 
> You can flame me if you like, but when folks tell fundamentalist Christians why they don't believe the same things they do, they often don't want to listen, and make up some other reason why folks are rejecting religion that suits their preconceived ideas better. But for a large part, it's just simply what I said.


Not going to flame at all, I prefer honest respectful debates and I honestly care about what others think on these matters.

I'll try to reply when I can get around a computer, it's hard to cut up and quote replies on the phone.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 17, 2015)

stringmusic said:


> Not going to flame at all, I prefer honest respectful debates and I honestly care about what others think on these matters.
> 
> I'll try to reply when I can get around a computer, it's hard to cut up and quote replies on the phone.



Oh, I have the utmost respect. My daddy was a Baptist preacher.  <-----(they don't believe in that, either  )


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## Hoot (Jun 17, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> Evolution for one. Hard to argue with bones and common sense and direct observation. Noah's Ark for another. You could make a list a mile long. Some of the things that people state as fact because it's in the Bible just seem silly to most people who think about things instead of blindly accepting what they were told, which is more and more people as time goes on.  I don't think it's worshiping science at all as much as simply believing evidence of what you can see with your own eyes instead of something that contradicts what you see with your own eyes written down a couple thousand years ago by people who weren't far out of the Stone Age and had all kinds of ideas about how things worked that have since been proven wrong. The church used to maintain that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth and such like, and considered it heresy to say otherwise. It will need to adapt to today's findings, just like it did then, if it is to survive. I don't understand why people deny evolution by natural selection, when you can see it in action today. Or deny fossils that are there to see. What if God created life on Earth by the process of evolution? That may have been his plan.  How long is a day to God?
> 
> You can flame me if you like, but when folks tell fundamentalist Christians why they don't believe the same things they do, they often don't want to listen, and make up some other reason why folks are rejecting religion that suits their preconceived ideas better. But for a large part, it's just simply what I said. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, but they contradict each other frequently, and people tend to believe proven things over speculative matters of faith that go against common sense and direct observation.



Will you please quit interjecting linear logic into a circular logic discussion?  



NCHillbilly said:


> Oh, I have the utmost respect. My daddy was a Baptist preacher.  <-----(they don't believe in that, either  )



Oh, many do...when other Baptists aren't looking.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 17, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> I firmly believe that the main factor in the decline of Christianity in America, especially among the younger generations, is its steadfast denial of proven science. When someone claims something isn't when it can plainly be seen that it is, it does much to discredit the whole message of that person or institution. That seems to be the main sticking point with most non-believers, but even that fact is denied by many Christians.



Your answer seems logical but why today's generation? The past few generations had pretty much the same resources as the present young people. 

I would say both my girls 25 & 30 are more Agnostic than Christian and most of their friends are too. We were more into letting them find their own path to God instead of making them Baptists. So what I'm getting at is maybe us parents have some part in the demise of American Christianity. 

Next would be the influx of Jews, Hindus, and Muslims that has brought about some of the demise.


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## stringmusic (Jun 17, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I would say both my girls 25 & 30 are more Agnostic than Christian





> We were more into letting them find their own path to God instead of making them Baptists.



I hope you don't ever wonder why they're agnostic.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 17, 2015)

stringmusic said:


> I hope you don't ever wonder why they're agnostic.



John 6:44-45
44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

I never wonder!


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## stringmusic (Jun 17, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> John 6:44-45
> 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
> 
> I never wonder!



Read verse 45 again, very slowly.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 17, 2015)

stringmusic said:


> Read verse 45 again, very slowly.



OK I read it slowly.

It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

commentary;
And they shall all be taught of God; i.e. direct teaching by God is the prime requisite of any spiritual apprehension, even of the mysteries of Christ the Revealer. This solemn truth is affirmed by the entire history of Christ. The vision of his majesty, even contact with his ineffable love, the sight of his humiliation and of the shedding of his precious blood, did not, by any necessarily acting law of mind, induce faith. Divine teaching by the Spirit of the Father and Son is the preliminary (see notes on John 16:5-8, on the mission of the Comforter) to believing on Christ. "Taught of God" (διδακτοὶ Θεοῦ), translated in Vulgate, docibiles Dei (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:9), means more than the reception of one lesson in the school of God, and suggests a prolonged experience and a rich communion between the Teacher and the taught. Every one (therefore) [πᾶς, referring to the πάντες of ver. 45a, and to the quotation, is not so much every human being, as the "all" of the Messianic kingdom - the "all" of God's "sons" and "children "] that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned (of him), cometh unto me.

I'm going to have to put my faith in God being a better teacher than me or any other man.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 17, 2015)

I don't have the power to make my daughters believe in Jesus or even the God of Abraham. I and all of my family have taught them about Jesus.
Their salvation is by and from the grace of God. In John 6:44-45 there is a direct connection between drawing and teaching. The drawn are the taught. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
I've done my obligation to teach about Jesus and by setting an example of how a Christian should live. Now it is in God's hands.


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## JimD (Jun 18, 2015)

Sadly, some of the demise of Christianity is the actions of soo many supposedly spiritual people. Religion is rampant with back stabbing, hypocritical, self-righteous, self serving people. Also, there is no real agreement about anything and there is a ton of worthless arguments about minutia. If you would Google "Red Jacket Defends Native American Religion", a "savage" over 100 years ago saw these same things. Their "witness" to him, through their actions proved he had no reason to allow them to "preach the truth" to his people. In my 47 years I've seen 3 church splits that were devastating to families. Physician heal thyself.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 18, 2015)

JimD said:


> Sadly, some of the demise of Christianity is the actions of soo many supposedly spiritual people. Religion is rampant with back stabbing, hypocritical, self-righteous, self serving people. Also, there is no real agreement about anything and there is a ton of worthless arguments about minutia. If you would Google "Red Jacket Defends Native American Religion", a "savage" over 100 years ago saw these same things. Their "witness" to him, through their actions proved he had no reason to allow them to "preach the truth" to his people. In my 47 years I've seen 3 church splits that were devastating to families. Physician heal thyself.



Interesting history of Red Jacket;

"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit; if there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agree, as you can all read the book?"

"Brother, we are told that you have been preaching to the white people in this place. These people are our neighbors; we are acquainted with them; we will wait, a little while and see what effect your preaching has upon them. If we find it does them good, makes them honest and less disposed to cheat Indians, we will then consider again what you have said.

Source: Daniel Drake, Lives of Celebrated American Indians, Boston, Bradbury, Soden & Co. 1843), 283–87.

I guess their has always been a demise of Christianity in America and now we are only experiencing a perception of this demise.


http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5790/


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 18, 2015)

I think the demise is in this perception of how we see or view America as a Christian nation. Many are Christian in name only. This group is in a demise. 
God's true Elect isn't.


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## Hoot (Jun 18, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think the demise is in this perception of how we see or view America as a Christian nation. Many are Christian in name only. This group is in a demise.
> God's true Elect isn't.



'Nuf said...in that regard.

Well done, human with a real brain, that thinks for yourself.


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## bearpugh (Jun 21, 2015)

a lot of science that christianity denies are not proven fact. thats why they call them theories. theory of evolution,big bang theory etc. because they cannot be proven as fact by sciences own rules.


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## brian lancaster (Jun 22, 2015)

God says there will be a great falling away in the last days and all the signs are here. Call upon him before he come back to collect his people


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## obligated (Jul 5, 2015)

A lot of people  got tired of hypocrites that care more about power,status and money than their flock.They preach one thing and do another.Anyone that has braincells working will do what the bible says "get out of her"!Act like Gods Sheperds and sheep will come back.Act like uncaring wolves and they scatter.What would or did Jesus say about those scribes and Pharisees in the temple?Jesus taught in simple terms ANYONE could understand except the haughty and ones with evil hearts.Im not "religious"but I have read the book several times.


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## apoint (Aug 9, 2015)

Science keeps evolving its theories and calling theories facts.
  You just keep believing in mans evolving theories to save you on judgement day.
  What God has said is true today, tomorrow and into eternity.
     Science only proves God is correct, the rest of man's science is still evolving towards the real truth.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2015)

apoint said:


> Science keeps evolving its theories and calling theories facts.
> You just keep believing in mans evolving theories to save you on judgement day.
> What God has said is true today, tomorrow and into eternity.
> Science only proves God is correct, the rest of man's science is still evolving towards the real truth.



Science only proves God is correct. "the rest of man's science."
Are you saying God has science and man also has science?
Isn't Got the greatest scientist if science proves God is correct?  Otherwise science would not prove God is correct.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2015)

apoint said:


> Science keeps evolving its theories and calling theories facts.
> You just keep believing in mans evolving theories to save you on judgement day.
> What God has said is true today, tomorrow and into eternity.
> Science only proves God is correct, the rest of man's science is still evolving towards the real truth.



How do we address the issue of God's ever evolving Church? Almost every denomination has evolved from what they first believed. Many Christians today have evolved from the early Christian in their beliefs and morals. In fact we have evolved quite a bit in our beliefs and morals from our great grandparents.


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## apoint (Aug 9, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> How do we address the issue of God's ever evolving Church? Almost every denomination has evolved from what they first believed. Many Christians today have evolved from the early Christian in their beliefs and morals. In fact we have evolved quite a bit in our beliefs and morals from our great grandparents.



God is the perfect creator scientist.. man's science is mostly theory at best or worst.
 Denominations are all man made and flawed..
 Denomination is division.
 God created perfection and man can not do any thing but distort perfection.. Perfection can not be made better.


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## EverGreen1231 (Aug 12, 2015)

I still maintain that 'science' is the number one reason why faith has fallen to the wayside. You don't pray anymore, you go to the doctor and get a pill: No God necessary, none wanted.


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## EverGreen1231 (Aug 12, 2015)

NCHillbilly said:


> I firmly believe that the main factor in the decline of Christianity in America, especially among the younger generations, is its steadfast denial of proven science. When someone claims something isn't when it can plainly be seen that it is, it does much to discredit the whole message of that person or institution. That seems to be the main sticking point with most non-believers, but even that fact is denied by many Christians.



There's no such thing.


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## East River Guide (Aug 14, 2015)

EverGreen1231 said:


> I still maintain that 'science' is the number one reason why faith has fallen to the wayside. You don't pray anymore, you go to the doctor and get a pill: No God necessary, none wanted.



If belief is based on a God of the gaps then it seems reasonable that religion shrinks as the gaps get filled.


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