# Father Alberto Cutie



## Lowjack (May 7, 2009)

Falling from the Churche's Grace.
It is a shame, probably the most popular and well spoken priest I have ever known personally, as well as Bible kowledgeable.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1896581,00.html


----------



## WTM45 (May 7, 2009)

I can not see this as a shame.  If you want a paycheck and benefits you have to follow the rules of the employer.  Simple.
The church is an employer, the job is a career.  Simple.

He would be a smarter man to just go on and live his life.  He can believe whatever he wants.


----------



## Lowjack (May 7, 2009)

Some people are called to be members of Christ's body , but they haven't found their place in the body yet,whether you're a hand or a foot we are all different as Paul says.
He knows my church is open to him if he wants to keep on working for God, He would have to marry the woman, but he has a Job with me, serving the real master which is not the Church.


----------



## pnome (May 8, 2009)

One can only hope the good father learns a valuable lesson from this.


----------



## Lowjack (May 8, 2009)

Or the church ? "God said it is not good for man to be alone"
So a Church comes along and says you should not married.

Paul says a Bishop should be married, sober the hunsband of one wife and to have children and should know how to run his own house, "because if he doesn't know how to run his own home , how is he to run the house of God" ?


----------



## earl (May 8, 2009)

There are two sides to that sword. If a man can not put his family first ,he has no business getting married. If he can't put his god first he has no business being a priest. I speak from first hand experience on the first statement.


----------



## dawg2 (May 8, 2009)

earl said:


> There are two sides to that sword. If a man can not put his family first ,he has no business getting married. If he can't put his god first he has no business being a priest. I speak from first hand experience on the first statement.



I agree.


----------



## Free Willie (May 8, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Or the church ? "God said it is not good for man to be alone"
> So a Church comes along and says you should not married.
> 
> Paul says a Bishop should be married, sober the hunsband of one wife and to have children and should know how to run his own house, "because if he doesn't know how to run his own home , how is he to run the house of God" ?




That is called Twisted Scripture. You pull one verse out and presume to know the will of God? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.” Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for everyone. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.

Remember that no man is DRAFTED into the priesthood. It is an all volunteer army. Nobody MAKES a priest be single. If you want to be married, you have to take another path in life. If you don't have the gift of singleness, do not become a priest. You can be a Permanent Deacon. You can serve the Church in many other ways. But to be a priest, you have to be married to the Church. Been that way for two thousand years.

This priest didn't even hide what he was doing and it is shameful.


----------



## earl (May 8, 2009)

To paraphrase ...He wub wookin pa nub .....

I apologize ,but that was just too easy.


----------



## Lowjack (May 8, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> That is called Twisted Scripture. You pull one verse out and presume to know the will of God? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.” Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for everyone. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.
> 
> Remember that no man is DRAFTED into the priesthood. It is an all volunteer army. Nobody MAKES a priest be single. If you want to be married, you have to take another path in life. If you don't have the gift of singleness, do not become a priest. You can be a Permanent Deacon. You can serve the Church in many other ways. But to be a priest, you have to be married to the Church. Been that way for two thousand years.
> 
> This priest didn't even hide what he was doing and it is shameful.



So Paul takes presedence over God's word ?
"So God created man in his own image, 
in the image of God he created him; 
male and female he created them. 
And God blessed them, and God said to them, 
"Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it." 
Book of Genesis 1:27-28 



Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother 
and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. 
Book of Genesis 2:24 
Your lack of knowledge of the Word is what makes you think someone else is the one who twists the word, by quoating only a few verses you showed that.
Let's hear it as it was meant by Rabbi Paul;
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

1st Timothy 3

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Seems to me somewhere along the line , the church figured it was cheaper to maintained unmarried men, so this is the result scandals.


----------



## Free Willie (May 11, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> So Paul takes presedence over God's word ?



That WAS God's word...in the Bible. I thought YOU were the preacher/teacher/soldier/etc.

Again, he knew what he was joining when he decided to become a priest. It's like a soldier not wanting to fight. He didn't join the Boy Scouts.

As for the woman who was with him, God have mercy on her soul if she knew he was a priest.


----------



## Lowjack (May 11, 2009)

God have Mercy on those that put Yokes on people they can't carry, Jesus Came to remove the Yoke not tie down on people.


----------



## earl (May 11, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> God have Mercy on those that put Yokes on people they can't carry, Jesus Came to remove the Yoke not tie down on people.



 If I an not mistaken ,priest CHOOSE to put on that yoke . If they cannot stand up under the burden I believe they are free to remove that yoke in a manner that does not compromise their faith or religion.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 11, 2009)

Paul seems to have prophesied the coming of a church that would require such things as not marrying.

1 Timothy 4
Apostasy
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 
 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 
3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

Sometimes I think Protestants believe we have a Priest Draft.

Father Cutie was not drafted involuntarily. He (I assume) was called by God to be a priest. Just as some of you fine gentlemen were called to be preachers. 

One of the requirements of being a Catholic Priest is the vow of celibacy. It was not a secret vow, it was pretty much known to them from the beginning of their education as Catholics. As a matter of fact, I knew of this vow as a young child. It was not a secret.

Father Cutie broke his vow. That is a pretty serious deal. It has also come to light that Father Cutie has been breaking this vow for about 2 years. What if we found that Billy Graham had been cheating on Ruth for 2 years? Not a pretty picture, huh?

Anyway, Father Cutie has come out and said he is ALL FOR CELIBACY IN THE PRIESTHOOD. He DOES NOT WANT TO BE THE POSTER BOY FOR THIS ISSUE.

Here is the link to Father Cutie's statement.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519822,00.html

I will continue to pray for the reconciliation of Father Cutie and his vows to the Church.


----------



## Lowjack (May 12, 2009)

Anyways he has told me he might join the Episcopal Church and become a priest there ,after he marries the woman who he has being with for 10 years.
He has the Blessing and welcome of the Episcopal Bishop in Miami, as Father Alberto is a good Shepperd, who only did what Nature intended for every man and woman.

IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.

The Royal Priesthood of Israel ,the "Cohenim"were required to be age 30 and married before they could service before the Lord in the Temple, these are the little things that bother me about the Catholic dogmas, but I also learned there are many devout catholics and men and women of faith within that institution.
Our church works with "Carita" international in Miami, sending goods to Hurricane ravished Cuba,Dominican Republic and Haiti, we meet almost once a month for lunch among protestant Pastors also.

So we have a good relationship here in Miami and put aside differences, I found that most bishops and Arch bishops do not agree with the church policy, but follow faithfully.
I know one Cuban Bishop here in Miami , a very charismatic feller , who told me 2 days ago, Al , I'm still a Virgin at age 84 would you believe that ? I said yes you I believe" we had a good laugh about it.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

"many parishioners may actually be relieved that their popular priest has a libido focused on a woman who has reached the age of consent"

That is veeeryy telling


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Anyways he has told me he might join the Episcopal Church and become a priest there ,after he marries the woman who he has being with for 10 years. He told the news agencies he had been with her for about 2 years.
> He has the Blessing and welcome of the Episcopal Bishop in Miami, as Father Alberto is a good Shepperd, who only did what Nature intended for every man and woman. I'm sure he is a great "Shepperd" but I doubt he will leave the Church is he is a good Catholic. No fully practicing Catholic could ever become an Episcopalian.
> 
> IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do. You are entitled to your opinion but it has no weight in my religion. And for the record, the celibacy is not "Forced". It is voluntary, as I and others have pointed out to you.
> ...



No such thing as "forced celibacy".


----------



## Lowjack (May 12, 2009)

Thank God for that.


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> "many parishioners may actually be relieved that their popular priest has a libido focused on a woman who has reached the age of consent"
> 
> That is veeeryy telling



Do we REALLY want to go there again? I mean, numbers of Protestant child molesters against the number of Catholic child molesters? The proof is very enlightening about a very disturbing trend.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> That is called Twisted Scripture. You pull one verse out and presume to know the will of God? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.” Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for everyone. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.
> 
> Remember that no man is DRAFTED into the priesthood. It is an all volunteer army. Nobody MAKES a priest be single. If you want to be married, you have to take another path in life. If you don't have the gift of singleness, do not become a priest. You can be a Permanent Deacon. You can serve the Church in many other ways. But to be a priest, you have to be married to the Church. Been that way for two thousand years.
> 
> This priest didn't even hide what he was doing and it is shameful.



Not quite 2,000 years, Free, the church did not require celibacy until a few hundred years after the Lord's acention


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

It was spoken about and written about during the 1st century.

Remember, I have Sacred Tradition as well as Scripture!


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Do we REALLY want to go there again? I mean, numbers of Protestant child molesters against the number of Catholic child molesters? The proof is very enlightening about a very disturbing trend.



Catholic priest child molesters.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 12, 2009)

It's my understanding that celibacy wasn't required until several centuries had passed after the church was established.

Priest celibacy is clearly manmade.

But that doesn't excuse this man of his blatant fornication.
He should have left the priesthood and gotten married.
He sinned.


----------



## Lowjack (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Not quite 2,000 years, Free, the church did not require celibacy until a few hundred years after the Lord's acention



A Few , Try 1023 AD IS when It became official, only a few Were Celebate in one Church in Spain, from there it spread until it was ratified in 1023 AD.


----------



## Lowjack (May 12, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> It's my understanding that celibacy wasn't required until several centuries had passed after the church was established.
> 
> Priest celibacy is clearly man made.
> 
> ...



Watch it brother, anyone can fall .
Marriage as we know it today is also man made, Marriage in The Bible is when a man takes the woman in the Sex Act, God considers them Married. The Licenses and Ceremonies are just a way of the State and church to make money.
Did God give Adam and Eve a Document ?

Study the Old Hebrew History and you will see the Wedding was the act of the groom coming to get the bride after he had built a house, the ceremony was lots of dancing and a blessing by the elders, no written document was issued. they were considered married the next day after they had consummated the sex act.


----------



## dawg2 (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Catholic priest child molesters.



Don't even start.


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Catholic priest child molesters.



OK..Protestant pastor child molesters. I can type that, too.

Read up on some recent insurance claim statistics. Maybe check in the last 20 years, or so. Or you can Google "Stop Baptist Predators".


----------



## Lowjack (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Catholic priest child molesters.


That's not nice !


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Watch it brother, anyone can fall .
> Marriage as we know it today is also man made, Marriage in The Bible is when a man takes the woman in the Sex Act, God considers them Married. The Licenses and Ceremonies are just a way of the State and church to make money.
> Did God give Adam and Eve a Document ?
> 
> Study the Old Hebrew History and you will see the Wedding was the act of the groom coming to get the bride after he had built a house, the ceremony was lots of dancing and a blessing by the elders, no written document was issued. they were considered married the next day after they had consummated the sex act.



I don't disagree with anything you wrote above. However, the point you are so keenly missing is that he made a vow that he didn't keep. It is exactly the same as if you get caught cheating on your wife. No excuse. Especially if you continue to do so over a period of 2 years. I guess they were not having sex, either, huh? So you have infidelity and fornication involved. Not a one time lapse of judgement but an extended period of time. Plus, no remorse until he was exposed.

Not good at all.


----------



## Jeffriesw (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Catholic priest child molesters.



You rally ought to look into the numbers of molestations involved with all churches before bashing the Catholic Priest's. 

The RCC just makes a huge and easy target to aim at.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> You rally ought to look into the numbers of molestations involved with all churches before bashing the Catholic Priest's.
> 
> The RCC just makes a huge and easy target to aim at.



Not bashing, just stating a fact, there are more then a few parishes that are bankrupt because of this


----------



## Ronnie T (May 12, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Watch it brother, anyone can fall .
> Marriage as we know it today is also man made, Marriage in The Bible is when a man takes the woman in the Sex Act, God considers them Married. The Licenses and Ceremonies are just a way of the State and church to make money.
> Did God give Adam and Eve a Document ?
> 
> Study the Old Hebrew History and you will see the Wedding was the act of the groom coming to get the bride after he had built a house, the ceremony was lots of dancing and a blessing by the elders, no written document was issued. they were considered married the next day after they had consummated the sex act.




I agree, anyone can fall.
I was simply pointing out that this church leader's hands are not clean.  He has a public sin that he must deal with.  He was not married to her at the time.  She was his "secret". Most likely, he's already dealt with the sin thru repentance and asking for forgiveness.


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Not bashing, just stating a fact, there are more then a few parishes that are bankrupt because of this



And more than a few Protestant churches that have split because of this...

or that...

or the other...

then split again...

then again...

then again...


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> And more than a few Protestant churches that have split because of this...
> 
> or that...
> 
> ...



Good point


----------



## earl (May 12, 2009)

Any body want to place bets on how long this will take to get some one banned ?


----------



## Free Willie (May 12, 2009)

Seems civil enough so far. No name calling that I have seen.


----------



## earl (May 12, 2009)

IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.





> That statement sheds a new light on the rumors surrounding Christ and Mary  Magdalene don't you think ?


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

earl said:


> IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## earl (May 12, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> earl said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> ...


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 12, 2009)

earl said:


> JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:
> 
> 
> > For continuity's sake it should probably stay here. Without the background ,that question would only draw out the Dan Brown fans  and their opponents.
> ...


----------



## Free Willie (May 13, 2009)

earl said:


> IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Madman (May 13, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> He didn't join the Boy Scouts.




Boy Scouts have standards too. Don't forget about the "atheist" who could not get his Eagle merit badge.


----------



## WTM45 (May 13, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> I have heard this phrase "Forced Celibacy" used by a couple of posters here. Can you please tell me how the celibacy is "forced"?



By threat of loss of title, employment, benefits, housing, retirement and income.
A powerful motivator.


----------



## Lowjack (May 13, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> I don't disagree with anything you wrote above. However, the point you are so keenly missing is that he made a vow that he didn't keep. It is exactly the same as if you get caught cheating on your wife. No excuse. Especially if you continue to do so over a period of 2 years. I guess they were not having sex, either, huh? So you have infidelity and fornication involved. Not a one time lapse of judgement but an extended period of time. Plus, no remorse until he was exposed.
> 
> Not good at all.


I  agree with that, but you see sin is going against God's
Moral commandments, it has nothing to do with you or me.
We are not licensed by God to Judge his condition or sin.
To me He was married from the first time he was with the woman as that is what marriage is.
As far as a vow, OK he broke a vow to an institution , not to God.
Actually the institution is going against Nature, which is going against God, one and the same.
You are not bound by a law when the law is immoral or wrong.


----------



## WTM45 (May 13, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> We are not licensed by God to Judge his condition or sin.



The fundamentalists will have a field day with that one.

They believe a badge, gun and bulletproof vest comes with "belief" and "forgiveness."


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 13, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> earl said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> ...


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 13, 2009)

WTM45 said:


> The fundamentalists will have a field day with that one.
> 
> They believe a badge, gun and bulletproof vest comes with "belief" and "forgiveness."



Ain't that the truth.


----------



## WTM45 (May 13, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Hard to argue that celibacy is forced, seeing as how no one is forced to be a priest.



Fundamentalists state you can not run away from "God's Calling" and "God's Will."

So, how can a man, any man, say someone is not to be a preacher, or someone is not to be a priest?
"Hotline" to heaven rang?


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 13, 2009)

WTM45 said:


> Fundamentalists state you can not run away from "God's Calling" and "God's Will."
> 
> So, how can a man, any man, say someone is not to be a preacher, or someone is not to be a priest?
> "Hotline" to heaven rang?



I don't know, maybe the same man who decreed celibacy.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 13, 2009)

Dominic said:


> I love how you all want to blame the Church because this priest decided to have sex outside of marriage. Is that the same excuse you use to cover your sins?
> 
> He broke a promise he made a commitment that required nothing more then self control that is a sin. He had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin. He covered it up and lied about it that too is a sin. I do not see where the Church at anytime caused him to sin, his actions were and are his own.
> 
> ...



Good post, Dominic.


----------



## earl (May 13, 2009)

Where is Lowjack ? I still want to see his defense !!!!


----------



## Free Willie (May 13, 2009)

He's off in Israel fighting Palestinians, starting churches, delivering lectures at the school of minds, and converting Jews. 


He's a busy man.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 13, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I  agree with that, but you see sin is going against God's
> Moral commandments, it has nothing to do with you or me.
> We are not licensed by God to Judge his condition or sin.
> To me He was married from the first time he was with the woman as that is what marriage is.
> ...



For me, if I lie to someone, I have lied to God.
If I willingly make a contract with someone, God expects me to do right by that contract.
For me, if I break a vow to an institution, I have broken a vow to God.
For me, if I *purposely* cause a brother to stumble, even though I did not sin, I have sinned against God.
For me, if I am single, and living a single lifestyle, and professing to be celibate yet having a sexual relationship with a woman, I am in no way married.  I am a fornicator living a lie and living in sin.

Why would someone want to stone Miss California yet white-wash this failed church leader?

But, that's just me.


----------



## Lowjack (May 13, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> For me, if I lie to someone, I have lied to God.
> If I willingly make a contract with someone, God expects me to do right by that contract.
> For me, if I break a vow to an institution, I have broken a vow to God.
> For me, if I *purposely* cause a brother to stumble, even though I did not sin, I have sinned against God.
> ...


There is nothing you said I dissagree with, but he that says he hasn't sin is a liar.
So why Judge the man instead of guiding him in the right path again ?


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Falling from the Churche's Grace.
> It is a shame, probably the most popular and well spoken priest I have ever known personally, as well as Bible kowledgeable.
> http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1896581,00.html



A well spoken, "Bible" knowledgeable Catholic Priest?

You got to be kidding me. 

I thought protestants had the monopoly on that one.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Some people are called to be members of Christ's body , but they haven't found their place in the body yet,whether you're a hand or a foot we are all different as Paul says.
> He knows my church is open to him if he wants to keep on working for God, He would have to marry the woman, but he has a Job with me, serving the real master which is not the Church.



Yeah - I bet he will jump all over that great opportunity.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Earl... Is on another roll.... 

This  ----->



earl said:


> There are two sides to that sword. If a man can not put his family first ,he has no business getting married. If he can't put his god first he has no business being a priest. I speak from first hand experience on the first statement.



Should take care of this ----->



Lowjack said:


> Or the church ? "God said it is not good for man to be alone"
> So a Church comes along and says you should not married.
> 
> Paul says a Bishop should be married, sober the hunsband of one wife and to have children and should know how to run his own house, "because if he doesn't know how to run his own home , how is he to run the house of God" ?


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> That is called Twisted Scripture. You pull one verse out and presume to know the will of God? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.” Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for everyone. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.
> 
> Remember that no man is DRAFTED into the priesthood. It is an all volunteer army. Nobody MAKES a priest be single. If you want to be married, you have to take another path in life. If you don't have the gift of singleness, do not become a priest. You can be a Permanent Deacon. You can serve the Church in many other ways. But to be a priest, you have to be married to the Church. Been that way for two thousand years.
> 
> This priest didn't even hide what he was doing and it is shameful.



You don't REALLY think Lowjack would "twist" scripture...
Well... Do you?


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> That WAS God's word...in the Bible. I thought YOU were the preacher/teacher/soldier/etc.
> Again, he knew what he was joining when he decided to become a priest. It's like a soldier not wanting to fight. He didn't join the Boy Scouts.
> 
> As for the woman who was with him, God have mercy on her soul if she knew he was a priest.



Don't forget the IDF commando training and Farsi
classes.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

earl said:


> If I an not mistaken ,priest CHOOSE to put on that yoke . If they cannot stand up under the burden I believe they are free to remove that yoke in a manner that does not compromise their faith or religion.



Right again, earl....


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Dominic said:


> No one is forced to be a priest, as Earl said they may step down anytime they wish.
> 
> I wonder if you can also find the passage in Peter where he talks about those misunderstanding scripture to their own destruction.[/[/COLOR]QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Anyways he has told me he might join the Episcopal Church and become a priest there ,after he marries the woman who he has being with for 10 years.
> He has the Blessing and welcome of the Episcopal Bishop in Miami, as Father Alberto is a good Shepperd, who only did what Nature intended for every man and woman.
> 
> IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> ...



"there are many devout catholics and men and women of faith within that institution"

Not devout Catholics in "that institution"....
You gotta be kidding me. 

Btw -"that" institution was founded in 33AD by--->
You guessed it... Good ole' Jesus himself.

You being a pastor and all, you would know that though.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Do we REALLY want to go there again? I mean, numbers of Protestant child molesters against the number of Catholic child molesters? The proof is very enlightening about a very disturbing trend.



No - we don't want to go there.
The reason is because of the scope of The Catholic Church
everything get magnified because we are one.

World wide - NOBODY cares what happend at
po-dunk road Baptist Church so the "bad one's"
there don't get any attention.

Add them all up if you can even trace down all 35,000
"other than Catholic" denominations and surely you will
find Catholics don't have a monopoly on that either.




JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Not quite 2,000 years, Free, the church did not require celibacy until a few hundred years after the Lord's acention



Another expert on Catholicism. 
Thought we already had enough of them.



Free Willie said:


> It was spoken about and written about during the 1st century.
> 
> Remember, I have Sacred Tradition as well as Scripture!



Don't forget about The Magisterium.. You know.. The "teaching authority, of the Roman Catholic Church"

And da' Pope!

Willie - Didn't you READ Johnny Greywolf's above post.
Surely he knows more about than you. 
You are only a Catholic.



JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Catholic priest child molesters.



You really haven't been here that long... Have you?



Lowjack said:


> A Few , Try 1023 AD IS when It became official, only a few Were Celebate in one Church in Spain, from there it spread until it was ratified in 1023 AD.



Another "expert" 



dawg2 said:


> Don't even start.



He already did. 



Free Willie said:


> OK..Protestant pastor child molesters. I can type that, too.
> 
> Don't get them confused - remember we got the monopoly on that one.
> 
> ...



Yeah - right.... won't ever happen.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> You rally ought to look into the numbers of molestations involved with all churches before bashing the Catholic Priest's.
> 
> The RCC just makes a huge and easy target to aim at.



Specially for some "Christians" 

Yeah - I put that in an earlier post. Thanks for pointing that out SR.

He ain't been here that long.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Not bashing, just stating a fact, there are more then a few parishes that are bankrupt because of this



"Fact" is: You have no clue to the actual numbers
or you wouldn't open that can of worms.

You would lose.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> And more than a few Protestant churches that have split because of this...
> 
> or that...
> 
> ...



Now - There is some "FACT"


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> earl said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> ...


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I  agree with that, but you see sin is going against God's
> Moral commandments, it has nothing to do with you or me.
> We are not licensed by God to Judge his condition or sin.
> To me He was married from the first time he was with the woman as that is what marriage is.
> ...



The "institution" WAS FOUNDED by Christ. 

BTW - Who made you the moral authority?


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

WTM45 said:


> The fundamentalists will have a field day with that one.
> 
> They believe a badge, gun and bulletproof vest comes with "belief" and "forgiveness."



No they call that something else. 

I will PM you to explain.


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

WTM45 said:


> Fundamentalists state you can not run away from "God's Calling" and "God's Will."
> 
> So, how can a man, any man, say someone is not to be a preacher, or someone is not to be a priest?
> "Hotline" to heaven rang?



Just for "some' people. 

You got the idea though.....


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> I don't know, maybe the same man who decreed celibacy.



Mr. Expert...

Who would that be?


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Dominic said:


> I love how you all want to blame the Church because this priest decided to have sex outside of marriage. Is that the same excuse you use to cover your sins?
> He broke a promise he made a commitment that required nothing more then self control that is a sin. He had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin. He covered it up and lied about it that too is a sin. I do not see where the Church at anytime caused him to sin, his actions were and are his own.
> 
> He could have at anytime gone to his superior and told them
> ...



Sure it is.
Again, only works for some people though.

You stay with the technical stuff!


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

earl said:


> Where is Lowjack ? I still want to see his defense !!!!



Teaching a Farsi class....


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> He's off in Israel fighting Palestinians, starting churches, delivering lectures at the school of minds, and converting Jews.
> 
> 
> He's a busy man.



Busy =  as always...

Don't forget the Farsi class...


----------



## Big7 (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> There is nothing you said I dissagree with, but he that says he hasn't sin is a liar.
> So why Judge the man instead of guiding him in the right path again ?



Easier to just repent and forget about it. 

Especially if you can never lose you salvation
once you have been "saved" 

"Judge" - On here?
You got to be kidding me? right?


----------



## Jeffriesw (May 14, 2009)

Hey 7,
Between 4:40 am and 6:01 am, 21 post's in the same thread?
You need to borrow some sominex or something?


----------



## Spotlite (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> God have Mercy on those that put Yokes on people they can't carry, Jesus Came to remove the Yoke not tie down on people.



I wish a lot of folks could grasp this........................with every aspect of their lives


----------



## Lowjack (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> "there are many devout catholics and men and women of faith within that institution"
> 
> Not devout Catholics in "that institution"....
> You gotta be kidding me.
> ...



That's twisted History, He didn't instituted the Roman Church, he instituted the Church Of Jerusalem First.
Totally an offshoot of Judaism
Following his own Command, to the Jew First then The gentile(Greek) All the Roman Church did was take credit for being first, a few Hundred years after the apostles.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (May 14, 2009)

This does much to illustrate why I no longer make the effort to belong to a church, especially Catholic.  

Priest rapes child - well they didn't understand laws, some things happened so long ago, etc


Priest hooks up with a woman - immediate termination

Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Lowjack (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> Easier to just repent and forget about it.
> 
> Especially if you can never lose you salvation
> once you have been "saved"
> ...



That's what the master said, now does your Church teach different ?
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> Mr. Expert...
> 
> Who would that be?



Hey, Biggie, I'm  a student of church history. What's wrong with that. BTW I'm not picking on you personally, why so touchy???


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> "Fact" is: You have no clue to the actual numbers
> or you wouldn't open that can of worms.
> 
> You would lose.



Why don't you cite some facts then, it's not a win or lose issue.
as I said, more then a few parishes are bankrupt due to this scandle. BTW I'm not just talking about catholics, if you look on some other threads, you'll see i've spoken about others too.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> Dominic said:
> 
> 
> > No one is forced to be a priest, as Earl said they may step down anytime they wish.
> ...


----------



## Lowjack (May 14, 2009)

Big7 said:


> The "institution" WAS FOUNDED by Christ.
> 
> BTW - Who made you the moral authority?


The Law Of Moses which was given to my people and then to yours.


----------



## JOHNNY GREYWOLF (May 14, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> The Law Of Moses which was given to my people and then to yours.



Are you jewish?


----------



## dawg2 (May 14, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Are you jewish?



He has his foot in two doorways....just can't commit


----------



## Lowjack (May 14, 2009)

JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Are you jewish?


Isn't it Obvious ? LOL


----------



## Big7 (May 17, 2009)

*Per your request...*



JOHNNY GREYWOLF said:


> Why don't you cite some facts then, it's not a win or lose issue.
> as I said, more then a few parishes are bankrupt due to this scandle. BTW I'm not just talking about catholics, if you look on some other threads, you'll see i've spoken about others too.




I think you will be surprised at the ACTUAL NUMBERS!

PREFACE

The purpose of this special report is to put the recent scandal in the Catholic Church in perspective.  It does not seek to exculpate anyone who had anything to do with priestly sexual misconduct, but it does seek to challenge those who continue to treat this issue in isolation.  Indeed, to discuss the incidence of sexual abuse committed by Roman Catholic priests without reference to the level of offense found among the clergy of other religions, or to that of other professionals, is grossly unfair. 



PRIESTS 

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv]  According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v]  Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi]  Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii] 



MINISTERS 

The data on the Protestant clergy tend to focus on sexual abuse in general, not on sexual abuse of children.  Thus, strict comparisons cannot always be made.  But there are some comparative data available on the subject of child sexual molestation, and what has been reported is quite revealing. 
In a 1984 survey, 38.6 percent of ministers reported sexual contact with a church member, and 76 percent knew of another minister who had had sexual intercourse with a parishioner.[xiii]  In the same year, a Fuller Seminary survey of 1,200 ministers found that 20 percent of theologically “conservative” pastors admitted to some sexual contact outside of marriage with a church member.  The figure jumped to over 40 percent for “moderates”; 50 percent of “liberal” pastors confessed to similar behavior.[xiv] 

In 1990, in a study by the Park Ridge Center for the Study of Health, Faith and Ethics in Chicago, it was learned that 10 percent of ministers said they had had an affair with a parishioner and about 25 percent admitted some sexual contact with a parishioner.[xv]  Two years later, a survey by Leadership magazine found that 37 percent of ministers confessed to having been involved in “inappropriate sexual behavior” with a parishioner.[xvi] 

In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14 percent of Southern Baptist ministers said they had engaged in “inappropriate sexual behavior,” and 70 percent said they knew a minister who had had such contact with a parishioner.[xvii]  Joe E. Trull is co-author of the 1993 book, Ministerial Ethics, and he found that “from 30 to 35 percent of ministers of all denominations admit to having sexual relationships—from inappropriate touching to sexual intercourse—outside of marriage.”

Rest of the article HERE:
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm#_ednref8


----------



## Lowjack (May 18, 2009)

THE PLOT THICKENS !
Tonight the 3 Paparazzis that Photograph the Father and the woman were shown on Local TV.
It So Happens the woman Had worked for them before, Apparently she made the father to be seen in public so that he would quit the Church and finally married her.
She made available to the paparazzis where they could be seen together so they could be photograph and video taped.

She is a devilish thing isn't she ?
I think Solomon warned men about this kind of woman ?


----------



## earl (May 19, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> THE PLOT THICKENS !
> Tonight the 3 Paparazzis that Photograph the Father and the woman were shown on Local TV.
> It So Happens the woman Had worked for them before, Apparently she made the father to be seen in public so that he would quit the Church and finally married her.
> She made available to the paparazzis where they could be seen together so they could be photograph and video taped.
> ...






I didn;t think Sol was celibate.


----------



## Lowjack (May 19, 2009)

earl said:


> I didn;t think Sol was celibate.


With 700 Concubines who better to consul about women ? LOL


----------



## gtparts (May 19, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> earl said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, going against nature is a sin, whether it is homosexuality or Forced Celibacy, what God intended is what we must do.
> ...


----------



## Lowjack (May 28, 2009)

LAST CHAPTER ON FATHER CUTIE.

Today on TV Father Cutie was Accepted By The Episcopal Bishop in the City of Miami, he has being licensed to pastor He and his fiancée were Blessed in Church Today, The bishop Explained it will take a few months before he can effect any of the rituals such as the Eucharist, but he has being authorized to preach a sermon in their Church, not too far from the Catholic Church he served for several years.
The Roman Catholic diocese is up in arms.
Catholics have received the news with Mixed feelings and confusion.

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/edi...ther_alberto_cutie_joins_episcopal_church.htm


I Timothy 3:1-7 says, â€œThis is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.â€�

Titus 1:5-9 says, â€œFor this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.â€�


----------



## Lowjack (May 28, 2009)

Dominic said:


> The good bishop wold be wiser to explain that neither he nor Mr. Cutie can effect the Eucharist. Being that he have removed himself from the Catholic Church and that the bishop never could. I wish him luck and will pray that he return home.
> 
> 
> Let him go so he might return


You mean is a monopoly ? Since the Last supper was a Jewish Ritual, How did the pope and priest get that Monopoly , since they are not Jews? Kinda silly isn't it.


----------



## earl (May 28, 2009)

If you like him ,you 'll love Swaggart,Bakker , et al. You might even want those Irish priests you brought up. I don't think I would want somebody elses cast offs giving me religious instruction.


----------

