# Is this life REALLY so bad?



## ambush80 (Feb 21, 2011)

What is it about this life that is so bad that people need to believe in an idyllic afterlife scenario?  And what are the terrible things that people have done that they need to feel like they are wretched scum? 

Everybody's got their problems.  How bad does it have to get that one would look forward to death?


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## stringmusic (Feb 21, 2011)

For me, its not so much that this life is so bad, in my belief, its what this life should have been that makes the two uncomparable.


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## ambush80 (Feb 21, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> For me, its not so much that this life is so bad, in my belief, its what this life should have been that makes the two uncomparable.



"what this life should have been......"

That's a shame


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## gtparts (Feb 21, 2011)

Sting, that certainly addresses the reality of everyone having to deal with a less than perfect existence. The other issue, the one concerning the "terrible things that people have done", comes down to just getting honest about our nature. 

If anyone does not have some sense of an inner struggle against evil, no matter how small, then they are ignoring their tendency to sin or they have dwelt in sin so long, they are immune to the ***** of the Holy Spirit and conscience.

It would appear that ambush80 does not deal with such. Or is it that without a concept of a holy god making the rules to live by, he can justify the small transgressions as being unworthy of mention (too minor) or undeserving of any serious consequences like incidents that are "forgettable"?

The holy God is condemning of all sin, equally. No favorites in that court, for sure! As much as He doesn't want us to sin, He doesn't want to condemn us either. But, God, being holy, can not let sin go unpunished. Because of His great love for us, He allowed Jesus to take the full punishment for us on the cross. 

By God's mercy, everyone receives far less than what he or she deserves in the way of consequences for sin in this life. But only those people of faith in Christ will escape the separation from God in the life to come. 

If these guys don't believe in God or an afterlife, why is it such a concern for them??


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## ambush80 (Feb 21, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Sting, that certainly addresses the reality of everyone having to deal with a less than perfect existence. The other issue, the one concerning the "terrible things that people have done", comes down to just getting honest about our nature.
> 
> If anyone does not have some sense of an inner struggle against evil, no matter how small, then they are ignoring their tendency to sin or they have dwelt in sin so long, they are immune to the ***** of the Holy Spirit and conscience.
> 
> ...




I'll address this portion now and the rest when I have time.

Because it's just so darned weird to me that y'all eat that stuff up hook, line and sinker.  I can't get over what an odd thing it is you have done in your mind to attempt to make sense of the Universe through such fantastic notions.  

It's just plain kooky and no matter how many times I hear people talk about it it confounds and titillates me.    Just like I still watch every special on TV about the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot.  It's fascinating.....


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## stringmusic (Feb 21, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> "what this life should have been......"
> 
> That's a shame



It is a shame that you think this reality is the best there is.


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## JFS (Feb 21, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> It is a shame that you think this reality is the best there is.



Reality isn't the best, nor the worst there is.  It's all there is.  You can't apply a best/worst dualism to the only state there is.

What you can do is make the best of it.


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## atlashunter (Feb 21, 2011)

If reality were shaped by how we wish life would be or should have been then there would be no death, or at least not until we chose it. But that isn't reality. There is death. There is pain and suffering. It was here long before us and our aversion to it isn't going to change that.

I understand the longing. It doesn't have to be that life is so bad here we hope for something better. It is also that we enjoy life and don't want it to end. You lose a loved one and you want to believe the separation isn't permanent. That one day you will be reunited. It's understandable.

I lost my grandfather last week. He was  very dear and close to me. He also was a minister for over 50 years and had a faith that was rock solid. It would be much easier for me to deal with the grief of his death if I shared that faith and really thought the separation only temporary. It's a comforting thought. I know it comforted a lot of people at the funeral. I don't have that. My belief is that the time when I could talk and laugh with him or give him a hug is gone never to return. He really is gone forever. That is an extremely difficult thing to face when you love someone.

It would be nice if it were true that we continued on after death in some other dimension and were reunited with our loved ones. I just don't see any good reason to think that is the reality. Especially when the claim is made by a text that also claims that my grandpa died because the first man and woman thousands of years ago were persuaded by a talking snake to eat a forbidden fruit, thereby bringing death into the world. Utterly absurd. Also absurd and incredibly evil is the claim that a man as wonderful and loving as him would deserve to be burned forever if he hadn't believed in Jesus Christ. That is something I know to not be true. At least not if there is a just and loving God.


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## stringmusic (Feb 21, 2011)

JFS said:


> Reality isn't the best, nor the worst there is.  It's all there is. You can't apply a best/worst dualism to* the only state there is*.


You can when you dont assume this.


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## atlashunter (Feb 21, 2011)

JFS said:


> Reality isn't the best, nor the worst there is.  It's all there is.  You can't apply a best/worst dualism to the only state there is.
> 
> What you can do is make the best of it.



Spot on.


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## 242outdoors (Feb 21, 2011)

JFS said:


> Reality isn't the best, nor the worst there is.  It's all there is.  You can't apply a best/worst dualism to the only state there is.
> 
> What you can do is make the best of it.



great point.


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## pnome (Feb 22, 2011)

JFS said:


> Reality isn't the best, nor the worst there is.  It's all there is.  You can't apply a best/worst dualism to the only state there is.
> 
> What you can do is make the best of it.



Amen! (in big red font)



You should be grateful for this life.  This existence.  No matter how long or short it lasts.  Even if in pain.  It is not just every grouping of atoms that gets to be self-aware. 

Make the best of this life you have, and give up your vain and futile pursuit of another one.


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## StriperAddict (Feb 22, 2011)

Atlashunter, I'm sorry for your loss. I hope the good memories you have with your grandad ease some of the pain.  My grandfolks are gone many years but I still remember their voices and laughter, their faith and zest for life.  (For the record, it does comfort me to know I will see them someday).

So, pardon me, but I'll toss just one question to ponder, or talk about here, your choice...
What did the sincerity of your Grandfather's faith mean to you, to your heart?


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## atlashunter (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks StriperAddict. His smile and laugh will always be with me. He loved to cut up and had a very joyful personality.

As to your question, it's something I am still struggling with. My father, grandfather, and great grandfather all pastored churches. I think there was an unspoken hope if not expectation that I would one day carry on that tradition. I even thought so at times as a child. But it's not to be. Nobody wants to do disappoint their dad and granddad. It's hard looking on three generations of very good men that came before you and saying "I know they were sincere but I think they had it wrong on this.".

I also regret a bit that I wasn't able to talk to him about it and now never will be able to. He knew that I wasn't in church but had no idea how much my views had changed. I often thought of bringing it up. But I didn't want to challenge the faith of a man that helped a man nearing the end of his life face death. Not that I think it would have been shaken. And I also didn't want him losing any sleep over where he would have thought I was dooming myself to. So I kept silent. Probably for the best but I do wish he could have known better who I was and what I believed and why the way that I knew him.


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## StriperAddict (Feb 22, 2011)

It sounds like you have some great men in your family, and I'm not just saying that because of their faith. The respect you show them comes through, even with your differences of opinion.  During her last years alive, my grandmother was very hard of hearing, and I wish that earlier in her life we had those talks about her faith.  She might have influenced a sooner decision on my part, and could have saved me a world of hurt.

Perhaps some father and son talk will shed some light on understanding for you and your dad.  And no matter the outcome, it could at least bring you closer together.  I really wish you well with that.


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## gtparts (Feb 22, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> If reality were shaped by how we wish life would be or should have been then there would be no death, or at least not until we chose it. But that isn't reality. There is death. There is pain and suffering. It was here long before us and our aversion to it isn't going to change that.
> 
> I understand the longing. It doesn't have to be that life is so bad here we hope for something better. It is also that we enjoy life and don't want it to end. You lose a loved one and you want to believe the separation isn't permanent. That one day you will be reunited. It's understandable.
> 
> ...



If it fits in with God's plan for heaven, and there is the opportunity, I shall enjoy your Grandfather's presence, as I did not know either of mine. He has received his reward for his faithfulness. Of that, I have no doubt! A Christian just can't help but share an affection for the saints that have gone before, spreading the gospel of Christ.



pnome said:


> Amen! (in big red font)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am grateful! 

A sentient cluster of atoms, without a purpose, is pointless in the extreme. 

By all means, make the best of others' lives and don't neglect the search for purpose in your own life. They will be found in the same place. 

Love God ------ Love people ------ Serve all.


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