# waterdog question



## cutem'all1090 (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm looking for a new duck dog and have been pretty sold on getting a Boykin but have been doing a bit of reading up on spaniels tonight and have any of you guys tried hunting with a French Spaniel? If so are they good dogs and how did it work out for you?


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## levi5002 (Sep 13, 2011)

1)spaniels in general have a different training mentality than a lab, so if you have previous training experience with labs be prepared to train just a little bit different. 
2)there are plenty of reputable trainers and breeders, but please do your research before you buy a boykin. As far as a French Spaniel, there a lil more uncommon than a boykin, so i would also do my research and make sure it has field proven bloodline.
3)ive never trained a french before but ran hunt test with em before and the ones i have seen, were pretty solid dogs. Boykins though, i have trained and im on the fence with em....all im gunna say about that.

Im sure your already doing your research, and know what you want but.............id buy a lab  this is all just my opinion and you know what they say about those.


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## jerry russell (Sep 13, 2011)

Like Levi5002, I have seen them run in hunt test. They got the job done but were just not something I would want. I simply like that explosive charge of my lab but if you are a guy that would consider a Boykin they might interest you. I would suggest getting to a hunt test and watching one run.

Good luch with your search.


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## ThunderRoad (Sep 13, 2011)

Just be done with it and get a lab...nuff said


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## catalpa (Sep 13, 2011)

Boykin all the way, why would you want any other hunting dog, besides their American made!


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2011)

*Boykins are nice dogs.*

If you want a small dog that will retreive doves and every now and then a duck in a stick pond I think they are great. Jerry is right if you hunt hard in the waterfowl world you need a black dog. Now all you folks that have yellows and chocooos I am happy for you. But say what you will when your hunting a big lake in North Georgia or the coast in ruff seas  you cant beat a Lab no matter what color. One other question when was the last time have  you ever heard of a Boykin becomming a FC or an AFC or a NAFC or a NFC. Look at the hunt test and tell me how many Boykins make it compared to the LABS/ Goldens/ Flat Coats/Chessys/. Yea you got a few and like I said they are good dogs. By the way my next lap dog will be a Boykin,  but I am still a breed 108 Lab man.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2011)

*Jerry*



jerry russell said:


> Like Levi5002, I have seen them run in hunt test. They got the job done but were just not something I would want. I simply like that explosive charge of my lab but if you are a guy that would consider a Boykin they might interest you. I would suggest getting to a hunt test and watching one run.
> 
> Good luch with your search.


 He needs to go to a fld trial and see how many Boykins are there.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2011)

Check out my avatar and tell me if you see a Boykin


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## cutem'all1090 (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm personally not planning on getting  into running field trials and hunt test and all of that stuff. I've seen many labs work some good some bad and do agree they are great dogs but this dog will pretty much be a hunting dog and family pet.


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## Quacksmaker (Sep 14, 2011)

Get a Deutsch Drahthaar and don't look back. Great family dog all type of birds and fur too.


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*Great bird dogs*



Quacksmaker said:


> Get a Deutsch Drahthaar and don't look back. Great family dog all type of birds and fur too.


 If you hunt quail great but I am gona hunt with a Lab.


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## Quacksmaker (Sep 14, 2011)

killer elite said:


> If you hunt quail great but I am gona hunt with a Lab.



yes this is true and that why i got a deutsch drahthaar because i hunt quail as well as ducks, but if i hunted just ducks it would be a lab for me.


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## willholl79 (Sep 14, 2011)

jerry russell said:


> Like Levi5002, I have seen them run in hunt test. They got the job done but were just not something I would want. I simply like that explosive charge of my lab but if you are a guy that would consider a Boykin they might interest you. I would suggest getting to a hunt test and watching one run.
> 
> Good luch with your search.



Duck hunting with a Boykin is kinda like eating soup with a fork.  It kinda works, but why the heck would you want to?


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## cutem'all1090 (Sep 14, 2011)

willholl79 said:


> Duck hunting with a Boykin is kinda like eating soup with a fork.  It kinda works, but why the heck would you want to?



I don't eat soup so I think I am going to take my chances


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## The Fever (Sep 14, 2011)

I recently got two boykins, one works upland birds and one is being trained to be a duck dog. So far they have a great desire to please and they seem to refuse to accept the fact they are smaller dogs.


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## jerry russell (Sep 14, 2011)

Now now boys, he was asking a simple question about a breed of dogs. Lets not get controversial on these simple post. He wants a Boykin and seems to know what he is looking for. I know a ton of folks that run them and they are just crazy about them. I do believe that modern training techniques have come around to a point where more trainers understand how to work with Boykins vs labs. This has resulted in some really good dogs in the duck blind. Now, will a boykin ever roll a big old live Canada in a hay field? Most likely no but not everyone likes that style of dog. Heck, My women tells me that the reason I love my lab is that he is hard headed, 400 miles per hour and would keep hunting if his coat were on fire. She also said we are just alike...hmmmm?

Good luck Cutem and remember that now matter what breed you choose, you will have a great dog and you will be duck hunting. With those two things you can't go wrong.


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## catalpa (Sep 14, 2011)

Killer, I would bet you get plenty of personal attacks- but they make medicine for that. If you get that Boykin, I'd watch that lab. 
He may run away from home when he sees what a real duck dog can do.


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## willholl79 (Sep 14, 2011)

cutem'all1090 said:


> I don't eat soup so I think I am going to take my chances



I'm just cuttin' up with you, enjoy whichever breed you choose.


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*You folks think I kidding*



catalpa said:


> Killer, I would bet you get plenty of personal attacks- but they make medicine for that. If you get that Boykin, I'd watch that lab.
> He may run away from home when he sees what a real duck dog can do.


 When my black dog dies I am gona get me a Boykin. I was the equip. manager for Palmetto retreiver club, which was the first retreiver club in SC. for many years. Back in the old days we had what we called club gun dog trials. This was before the hunt test were started. They would place gun dogs the same way they do in Fld trials. Sid Tidwell and I judge the master gun dog trial and  a Boykin won. That dog  beat every lab and golden on that day. I thought I was gona be tared and feathered and then Run out of town on a rail.LOL/LOL/LOL/. But your right when I was a First Sgt. in the Army all my troops called me mad dog.


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

jerry russell said:


> Now now boys, he was asking a simple question about a breed of dogs. Lets not get controversial on these simple post. He wants a Boykin and seems to know what he is looking for. I know a ton of folks that run them and they are just crazy about them. I do believe that modern training techniques have come around to a point where more trainers understand how to work with Boykins vs labs. This has resulted in some really good dogs in the duck blind. Now, will a boykin ever roll a big old live Canada in a hay field? Most likely no but not everyone likes that style of dog. Heck, My women tells me that the reason I love my lab is that he is hard headed, 400 miles per hour and would keep hunting if his coat were on fire. She also said we are just alike...hmmmm?
> 
> Good luck Cutem and remember that now matter what breed you choose, you will have a great dog and you will be duck hunting. With those two things you can't go wrong.


Great post!


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## catalpa (Sep 14, 2011)

I can remember when the only way to get a Boykin was to slip across into SC and steal one. No one in this part of the country new what one, was the best kept secret for a long time. But all dogs are great on matter what breed.


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*I love pointing dogs to.*



Quacksmaker said:


> yes this is true and that why i got a deutsch drahthaar because i hunt quail as well as ducks, but if i hunted just ducks it would be a lab for me.


 I was always a German shorthair man myself.


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## catalpa (Sep 14, 2011)

You know I enjoy watching all dogs work from a beagle to a German short hair. They are plain fun to watch and be around.


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## NGaHunter (Sep 14, 2011)

killer elite said:


> If you want a small dog that will retreive doves and every now and then a duck in a stick pond I think they are great. Jerry is right if you hunt hard in the waterfowl world you need a black dog. Now all you folks that have yellows and chocooos I am happy for you. But say what you will when your hunting a big lake in North Georgia or the coast in ruff seas  you cant beat a Lab no matter what color. One other question when was the last time have  you ever heard of a Boykin becomming a FC or an AFC or a NAFC or a NFC. Look at the hunt test and tell me how many Boykins make it compared to the LABS/ Goldens/ Flat Coats/Chessys/. Yea you got a few and like I said they are good dogs. By the way my next lap dog will be a Boykin,  but I am still a breed 108 Lab man.





killer elite said:


> He needs to go to a fld trial and see how many Boykins are there.



I believe the reason you won't see any AFC Boykins or any boykins at Field trails is because they are not allowed to run in AKC Hunt Test or Field Trials

section 4. entry requirements. Hunting Tests shall 
be open to dogs six months of age or over on the first day 
of the event that have been individually registered with 
AKC or individually registered with a foreign or domestic 
registry organization whose pedigrees are acceptable for 
AKC registration. Hunting tests must be open to all eligible 
breeds: Chesapeake Retriever, Curly-Coated Retriever, 
Flat-Coated Retriever, Golden Retriever, Labrador 
Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Standard Poodle and Nova 
Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. A dog with an AKC Limited 
Registration or Conditional Registration shall be eligible to be entered in licensed or member Field Trials and/or 
Hunting Tests.

Also they have just approved a few more breeds but not the Boykin yet


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## levi5002 (Sep 14, 2011)

you can run UKC/HRC......and the fork for soup comment...priceless!


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*You have taken what I said out of context.*



NGaHunter said:


> I believe the reason you won't see any AFC Boykins or any boykins at Field trails is because they are not allowed to run in AKC Hunt Test or Field Trials
> 
> section 4. entry requirements. Hunting Tests shall
> be open to dogs six months of age or over on the first day
> ...



I know the rules. I ran some of the first hunt test in the state and I had a dog that was 2 points away from being a FC before he died. I was on the 1985 National Retriever Championship committee. I was awarded the 1986 Thomas C. Lackland award for sportsmanship from the Palmetto Retriever club. At that time you had one winner a year for that award. So I have read the AKC rules. I also know that Boykins are allowed to run some hunt test under I think the HRC. I have hunted a Boykin and I have hunted over many Labradors. If you hunt extreme hard conditions you need a lab. Now some Boykins can take it. But for the most part they are very good dogs for Dove hunting and some duck hunting. Like I have said I like the breed and I think they are great dogs but I would not use one to pick buffle heads on the back side of some island in the salt marsh. After telling you my story I am also gona say that my next dog is gona be a Boykin.


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## levi5002 (Sep 14, 2011)

killer elite said:


> I know the rules. I ran some of the first hunt test in the state and I had a dog that was 2 points away from being a FC before he died. I was on the 1985 National Retriever Championship committee. I was awarded the 1986 Thomas C. Lackland award for sportsmanship from the Palmetto Retriever club. At that time you had one winner a year for that award. So I have read the AKC rules. I also know that Boykins are allowed to run some hunt test under I think the HRC. I have hunted a Boykin and I have hunted over many Labradors. If you hunt extreme hard conditions you need a lab. Now some Boykins can take it. But for the most part they are very good dogs for Dove hunting and some duck hunting. Like I have said I like the breed and I think they are great dogs but I would not use one to pick buffle heads on the back side of some island in the salt marsh. After telling you my story I am also gona say that my next dog is gona be a Boykin.



 someone needs a cookie......jk but thats a pretty stacked dog resume


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*I am what I am*



levi5002 said:


> someone needs a cookie......jk but thats a pretty stacked dog resume


 About 20 years ago I got out of the dog trials and hunt test so that I could raise my daughter and she is in her  second year at GA Southern. I am proud of my dog days and I am proud of my daughter.


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*I like oatmeal*



killer elite said:


> About 20 years ago I got out of the dog trials and hunt test so that I could raise my daughter and she is in her  second year at GA Southern. I am proud of my dog days and I am proud of my daughter.


LOL/LOL/LOL/


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## DUhollywood1 (Sep 14, 2011)

killer elite said:


> I know the rules. I ran some of the first hunt test in the state and I had a dog that was 2 points away from being a FC before he died. I was on the 1985 National Retriever Championship committee. I was awarded the 1986 Thomas C. Lackland award for sportsmanship from the Palmetto Retriever club. At that time you had one winner a year for that award. So I have read the AKC rules. I also know that Boykins are allowed to run some hunt test under I think the HRC. I have hunted a Boykin and I have hunted over many Labradors. If you hunt extreme hard conditions you need a lab. Now some Boykins can take it. But for the most part they are very good dogs for Dove hunting and some duck hunting. Like I have said I like the breed and I think they are great dogs but I would not use one to pick buffle heads on the back side of some island in the salt marsh. After telling you my story I am also gona say that my next dog is gona be a Boykin.




After telling everyone how useless they are at duck hunting why would you get one?


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

*I did not say they are useless.*



DUhollywood1 said:


> After telling everyone how useless they are at duck hunting why would you get one?


I said that in certian situations they are the wrong dog. Just like hunting geese with a 20 gauge. You can do it but it might not be the best thing to do. Yes a Boykin can probably retrieve a goose and you can kill a goose with a 20 gauge. That does not make them a good mix. I like Boykins and as I have said I think they are great dogs. DU I hunt in some places that you would not want to take a lab. Oyster beds are razor sharp and I  hunt buffle heads around oyster beds all the time.  I have had sharks steal my downed ducks. I like the Boykin and in fact I have been to Boykin SC.I think they are great dogs and I am gona get me one. I have a little taco dog that retreives  but I dont take her duck hunting. I think Boykins will do well in stick ponds and yes even some lakes . But where I live it is tuff on a dog. If you want see whats in the rivers around my place check out the thread about being careful during the early season with a dog of any kind.  Most of my hunting is done in tidal rivers and the open ocean. When its tuff on a big dog you sure can  say that the small dogs will suffer even more.  When i get my Boykin she will be a hunting dog and will probably sleep on the foot of the bed. I will also do just as i do with my lab I will protect my dogs. Now if you think I said they are worthless your wrong. I just think a bit of common sense goes along way to conserve the life of a dog that you have invested large amounts of time and money. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.  Good Luck


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## king killer delete (Sep 14, 2011)

jerry russell said:


> Now now boys, he was asking a simple question about a breed of dogs. Lets not get controversial on these simple post. He wants a Boykin and seems to know what he is looking for. I know a ton of folks that run them and they are just crazy about them. I do believe that modern training techniques have come around to a point where more trainers understand how to work with Boykins vs labs. This has resulted in some really good dogs in the duck blind. Now, will a boykin ever roll a big old live Canada in a hay field? Most likely no but not everyone likes that style of dog. Heck, My women tells me that the reason I love my lab is that he is hard headed, 400 miles per hour and would keep hunting if his coat were on fire. She also said we are just alike...hmmmm?
> 
> Good luck Cutem and remember that now matter what breed you choose, you will have a great dog and you will be duck hunting. With those two things you can't go wrong.


 I guess its pick on Killer day.


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## cutem'all1090 (Sep 14, 2011)

I do appreciate your opinions Killer and everyone else I'm pretty sure I have found the one and hopefully will have it this weekend and maybe one day we will be running with your labs!!


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## king killer delete (Sep 15, 2011)

*I can respect you for what you say.*



cutem'all1090 said:


> I do appreciate your opinions Killer and everyone else I'm pretty sure I have found the one and hopefully will have it this weekend and maybe one day we will be running with your labs!!


 We can agree to disagree. But at  you are respectful and  I thank you for that. You know what they say about opinions , You have one and I have one and I know that I come accross very hard sometimes and If I did I am sorry. I am still gona own a Boykin and I still love my labs.  You will never run a hunt test or a trial with me. I retired in 1990 from the sport. But if you want to come to the coast ,we can hunt together and I would love to watch your dog work. Please consider that an invatation to hunt. If you get to know me you would like me. Thank you for your respect.


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## cutem'all1090 (Sep 15, 2011)

killer elite said:


> We can agree to disagree. But at  you are respectful and  I thank you for that. You know what they say about opinions , You have one and I have one and I know that I come accross very hard sometimes and If I did I am sorry. I am still gona own a Boykin and I still love my labs.  You will never run a hunt test or a trial with me. I retired in 1990 from the sport. But if you want to come to the coast ,we can hunt together and I would love to watch your dog work. Please consider that an invatation to hunt. If you get to know me you would like me. Thank you for your respect.



It's no big deal Killer and I do accept the invitation and I'm sure we can work something out and I really look forward to it. Thanks


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## king killer delete (Sep 15, 2011)

*Shoot me a PM*



cutem'all1090 said:


> It's no big deal Killer and I do accept the invitation and I'm sure we can work something out and I really look forward to it. Thanks


We will get together. I cant promise no birds but you will have a good time. Bring your deer rifle to.


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## bbducks (Sep 15, 2011)

Cutem'all get a poodle.


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## king killer delete (Sep 15, 2011)

*How is your trainig program going?*



bbducks said:


> Cutem'all get a poodle.


Just wondering?


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## bbducks (Sep 15, 2011)

SHE is doing realy good. I had some money setbacks so i couldnt afford to sent her to get trained. But i have been amazed with her. Not sayig anything bad but "MY" lab just was dumb and couldnt train him. I have done realy good geting her to retrive in water and land and i have no regrets getting her. She isnt as explosive as a lab but i just think its cool to see a poodle going to get a duck.


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## king killer delete (Sep 15, 2011)

*Thats alright*



bbducks said:


> SHE is doing realy good. I had some money setbacks so i couldnt afford to sent her to get trained. But i have been amazed with her. Not sayig anything bad but "MY" lab just was dumb and couldnt train him. I have done realy good geting her to retrive in water and land and i have no regrets getting her. She isnt as explosive as a lab but i just think its cool to see a poodle going to get a duck.


 Sometimes slower is better and You will  have a better time training her your self. GOOD LUCK, and thanks for the report.


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## cutem'all1090 (Sep 15, 2011)

bbducks said:


> SHE is doing realy good. I had some money setbacks so i couldnt afford to sent her to get trained. But i have been amazed with her. Not sayig anything bad but "MY" lab just was dumb and couldnt train him. I have done realy good geting her to retrive in water and land and i have no regrets getting her. She isnt as explosive as a lab but i just think its cool to see a poodle going to get a duck.



No offense, but you really hunt with that if so you just won some respect in my book. haha


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## bbducks (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes I am gana hunt with her. I got her in january so I haven't yet but she is on the way to being a duck dog. I have been working with and she is doing better than any lab I HAVE HAD. I have had some dumb ones. haha. Watch some videos on youtube of bremer and reba from redhuntingpoodles


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