# DIY Elk Hunt



## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

Who has done a DIY (Do It Yourself) OTC (Over The Counter) elk hunt?  It is my understanding that, in some states, one does not have to submit into a lottery for an archery elk tag.  For anyone who has fone this, what was your experience? Where did you go? Was it an easy process (to get a tag).  Anything else???


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

Title sould be DIY


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 23, 2020)

I do it a lot.  All my OTC experience is Colorado but Idaho and Montana offer some OTC tags as well.  If you look in the elk section Colorado's reg book it has shaded maps of all the units for each elk season and shows which units are valid for OTC tags.  For most of the western part of the state all of the archery season, and the 2nd and 3rd Rifle seasons are over the counter.  Muzzleloader, 1st and 4th rifle seasons are draw only for the most part.  It is as simple as picking out a unit you want to hunt (make sure the OTC tags are valid for the unit and season) buy a license online, make a plan, and go hunt.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> I do it a lot.  All my OTC experience is Colorado but Idaho and Montana offer some OTC tags as well.  If you look in the elk section Colorado's reg book it has shaded maps of all the units for each elk season and shows which units are valid for OTC tags.  For most of the western part of the state all of the archery season, and the 2nd and 3rd Rifle seasons are over the counter.  Muzzleloader, 1st and 4th rifle seasons are draw only for the most part.  It is as simple as picking out a unit you want to hunt (make sure the OTC tags are valid for the unit and season) buy a license online, make a plan, and go hunt.


Thank you, without giving up any secrets, do you have any recommendations?


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 23, 2020)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> Thank you, without giving up any secrets, do you have any recommendations?



When I am looking for a new unit to hunt I look at success rates (more specifically bull harvest because that is usually what I am after), % of public land in the unit (60% plus is what I like), Terrain and amount of timber.

On success rates, I like to look back 5 years and see how consistent the harvest is for a unit.  Some units are very weather dependent and they will show 30% success rate one year and 2% the next year.  What this usually means is the unit requires a bunch of snowfall somewhere else to push the elk into the unit.  I would rather hunt a unit that is 12% every year. 

On % public land, if a unit only has 30% public land the success rates for that unit are useless to you because chances are that success is happening on private land.

On terrain and amount of timber,  if a unit is heavily timbered you have to have one of two things to be successful. 1 Bugling Elk. 2 Intimate knowledge of the unit.  As a nonresident and first timer you can scratch #2 and are counting on the elk talking to be able to find them.  I am not willing to waste my week of vacation betting on the elk to be talking.  I look for units that have mixed open country, broken timber and solid timber.  That way if they are not bugling you can hunt with your eyes and not your legs.

The rest depends on how far you want to walk, what kind of place you want to stay and so on.  If you want to stay in a hotel you have to look at hunting areas in the vicinity of towns.  If you are camping that is not much of a concern.


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## lampern (Sep 23, 2020)

I believe some units in Colorado are managed for "trophy" bull elk and some are not.

Something else to think about


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 23, 2020)

lampern said:


> I believe some units in Colorado are managed for "trophy" bull elk and some are not.
> 
> Something else to think about



That’s true in a couple ways. Some units are managed for trophy quality by limiting the number of hunters through the draw. For example, units 1 and 201 in the northwest corner of the state are the premier big bull units with nearly 100% success rates on big bulls even in archery season.  The problem is you are more likely to be in a head on collision with an alien from outer space than you are to draw a trag for one of those units. 

Many of the OTC units also have antler point restrictions.  I think all are 4 points on a side or a brow tine at least 5 inches.  It is listed on the first page of the elk section with a list of units that have this restriction.  Every unit I’ve hunted has had this and finding legal bulls hasn’t been a problem.  Last year we didn’t see a bull that wasn’t legal.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

I know NOTHING about these type of hunts.  I just celebrated my 63rd birthday, I'm  in good health, go to the gym 4 or 5 times a week so I am in reasonably good shape (for my age).  Anyone wanting to go?


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## Gaswamp (Sep 23, 2020)

you only live once


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## Triple C (Sep 23, 2020)

Never been myself but live vicariously thru my son that has been making the trek to CO each year for more than a decade.  Over the counter, DIY.  Some years he goes solo and some years he takes a buddy or two. 

He's been there for the past 10 days with two buddies.  They came out Sunday to restock.  He called and said they were finally on elk and are staying thru the end of this week.  Averages about 1 bull every 5 years but get's on em just about every year.  One of my favorite pics from his trips was 2016 when he was with a couple of buddies and two of em connected on bulls.

I'm sure he'd freely share any info regarding how to prepare and what to pack.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> you only live once


You wanna go Joe?


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 23, 2020)

Triple C said:


> Never been myself but live vicariously thru my son that has been making the trek to CO each year for more than a decade.  Over the counter, DIY.  Some years he goes solo and some years he takes a buddy or two.
> 
> He's been there for the past 10 days with two buddies.  They came out Sunday to restock.  He called and said they were finally on elk and are staying thru the end of this week.  Averages about 1 bull every 5 years but get's on em just about every year.  One of my favorite pics from his trips was 2016 when he was with a couple of buddies and two of em connected on bulls.
> 
> ...


Dude,  I wanna go!!!!"


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 23, 2020)

I've been to Colorado twice, killed a bull the first trip and a cow the second.  This was a 1st rifle hunt that was drawn, but we selected a unit that was 100% draw with no points for non-residents.  Draw hunts with a good chance of being selected are better than OTC since there's still a limit on the number of hunters.


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## Gaswamp (Sep 24, 2020)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> You wanna go Joe?


bin thinking bout it...gun or bow?


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## shdw633 (Sep 24, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> I've been to Colorado twice, killed a bull the first trip and a cow the second.  This was a 1st rifle hunt that was drawn, but we selected a unit that was 100% draw with no points for non-residents.  Draw hunts with a good chance of being selected are better than OTC since there's still a limit on the number of hunters.



Did you rent horses to get back to where you hunted or just hike back into the country.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 24, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> Did you rent horses to get back to where you hunted or just hike back into the country.



We rented llamas, they are much lower maintenance than a horse.


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## shdw633 (Sep 24, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> We rented llamas, they are much lower maintenance than a horse.



How far back did you go?  I ask this as I am trying to figure out how to do one of these hunts with a set of bad knees.


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## sasmojoe (Sep 24, 2020)

Let me tell you from first hand experience, you can go to the gym and workout 7 days a week , but here in ga. You can’t duplicate the altitude change.  We camped at 9500’ and had to climb to 10,500 to get to elk.
Hardest hunt physically I’ve ever been on.


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## shdw633 (Sep 24, 2020)

https://www.trainingmask.com/traini...k8T5YXLB7FchNIHjXyg45o3we7sXle7hoC058QAvD_BwE

Would this help in that training??


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 24, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> bin thinking bout it...gun or bow?


Bow, but it will be next year


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 24, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> We rented llamas, they are much lower maintenance than a horse.


I just watched a show where they used llamas


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## NMH5050 (Sep 24, 2020)

If you want the DIY experience but still have some help look up an outfitters that have drop camps. It will get you set up in the area and have one less thing to worry about.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 24, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> How far back did you go?  I ask this as I am trying to figure out how to do one of these hunts with a set of bad knees.



5 miles the 1st trip, 3.5 on the second. It's not so much the miles as it is the elevation change.  Both these were pretty mild, 1,000 ft drop in elevation across 5 miles on a gated USFS road wasn't too bad.  You could bicycle that area if you needed to and didn't have a lot of snow.


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## Gaswamp (Sep 24, 2020)

yeah I'd want to do bow as well....you need to get some 20-30 year old backs on the payroll


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## shdw633 (Sep 24, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> 5 miles the 1st trip, 3.5 on the second. It's not so much the miles as it is the elevation change.  Both these were pretty mild, 1,000 ft drop in elevation across 5 miles on a gated USFS road wasn't too bad.  You could bicycle that area if you needed to and didn't have a lot of snow.



I have an ebike and I know Colorado has been getting good about allowing them on public land so I guess I'll have to figure out where to go first and then determine if they allow ebikes or not on that land.  I know a lot of hunters don't like that but that would be a game changer for someone like myself and allow me the opportunity to hunt out there.  Thanks for the information!!


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 24, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> I have an ebike and I know Colorado has been getting good about allowing them on public land so I guess I'll have to figure out where to go first and then determine if they allow ebikes or not on that land.  I know a lot of hunters don't like that but that would be a game changer for someone like myself and allow me the opportunity to hunt out there.  Thanks for the information!!



The Forest Service is still trying to get them figured out, but I think they're allowed on BLM land.  However, the area we hunted had a motorcycle trail going through it that ebikes would be legal on.  Saw only one motorcycle briefly in the 8 days we were there.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 24, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> yeah I'd want to do bow as well....you need to get some 20-30 year old backs on the payroll


Msle or female?


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## Gaswamp (Sep 25, 2020)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> Msle or female?


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## jav (Sep 25, 2020)

I hunted in Wyoming in my earlier days. I thought i could run up one side of the mountain and down the other. We were hunting on horseback and it was still the most intense physical drain i ever experienced. Not sure how you train for hunting out west in 3 foot of snow.


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## Dog Hunter (Sep 25, 2020)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> You wanna go Joe?


Im not Joe, but id love to make this trip one day.  been looking at for a couple years.  About got the kids big enough


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## Joe Brandon (Sep 26, 2020)

Man @NCMTNHunter you have shared a wealth of knowledge and probably saved some of us a lot of time and money. Much appreciated!!! You know your bear and elk for sure!!!!


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## Toliver (Sep 26, 2020)

Does this thread qualify to be locked at the top for future reference.  I'm not going to want to look for it when I can finally go...


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## Joe Brandon (Sep 26, 2020)

Any of yall recommend a good book and or website to help with planning? Ie all the details, equipment list etc. Thanks yall!


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## Gaswamp (Sep 26, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Any of yall recommend a good book and or website to help with planning? Ie all the details, equipment list etc. Thanks yall!


start watching born and raised outdoors


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## Joe Brandon (Sep 26, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> start watching born and raised outdoors


Thank you! I look forward to this trip. I am going to plan it for 2025 as a gift to myself when I finish grad school. I appreciate it I will start watching!


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## plumber_1969 (Sep 27, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> https://www.trainingmask.com/traini...k8T5YXLB7FchNIHjXyg45o3we7sXle7hoC058QAvD_BwE
> 
> Would this help in that training??



no it won’t. Save your money for other gear. Nothing you will do here will prepare you for the altitude. Get it good shape and start now for next year. Know your limitations. Understand what altitude sickness is and the symptoms. Get a prescription for diamox before you head that way. We’ve been going for the last 4 years and always have a blast between Colorado and New Mexico. I built boxes 14” and 20” to simulate climbing with a pack on. Eventually the pack weighed 50 pounds and I’d go for a five mile hike and hit the boxes while watching YouTube. Get good boots! Blisters will ruin you’re hunt. Enjoy yourself. I said I would hunt the Rockies before I was 50 and did it. The bluest skies you will ever see and those golden aspens are unbelievable. Most importantly, have fun and enjoy it. By the way, mule deer make an armadillo seem like Einstein.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 27, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Any of yall recommend a good book and or website to help with planning? Ie all the details, equipment list etc. Thanks yall!



Toprut.com is good for looking at success rates and draw rates for units in multiple states.  When you decide to go get a subscription to OnX for your phone, it's awesome to have aerials, topos, and property lines you can download for once you get out there.  For how to stuff, look up Randy Newberg on Youtube.


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 27, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Thank you! I look forward to this trip. I am going to plan it for 2025 as a gift to myself when I finish grad school. I appreciate it I will start watching!



Man if you are planning a hunt that far out you need to be getting some preference points between now then if your not already.  I think you would be able to pick up 4 between now and then.  That’ll give you a chance at some better units/seasons when the time comes.


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## Gaswamp (Sep 28, 2020)

whats a out of state elk license run currently in colorado


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> whats a out of state elk license run currently in colorado



Hunting license is $83
Bull or either sex $670
Cow $503

I usually camp and stay in a hotel one night on the way home.  A week hunt cost me around $1200 all said and done.


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Man @NCMTNHunter you have shared a wealth of knowledge and probably saved some of us a lot of time and money. Much appreciated!!! You know your bear and elk for sure!!!!



Glad to help Joe. For us easterners, the tag systems out west can be overwhelming when you first start looking at them. I really enjoy helping people get over the hump.  I talk to people all the time who say they wish could go elk hunting sometime before they die, thinking they will have to pay an outfitter $10,000 to do it.  A good experience (not a guaranteed kill) is something that most can afford with a little work and planning.


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## cowhornedspike (Sep 28, 2020)

Dog Hunter said:


> but id love to make this trip one day.



Hear this often.  Here's a tip.  

ONE DAY never comes on it's own...just go ahead and do it!!!  You will NOT regret it I promise.


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## donblfihu (Sep 28, 2020)

What does this include?(gas,  license, food what else)


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## plumber_1969 (Sep 28, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Glad to help Joe. For us easterners, the tag systems out west can be overwhelming when you first start looking at them. I really enjoy helping people get over the hump.  I talk to people all the time who say they wish could go elk hunting sometime before they die, thinking they will have to pay an outfitter $10,000 to do it.  A good experience (not a guaranteed kill) is something that most can afford with a little work and planning.




What NCMTN says is 100% correct. We've done it both ways. Been on DIY OTC and guided for cows. Had a blast both times. Guided is affordable if you factor all things in to consideration and have a reputable guide. Find out what people in the Georgia pay for a quality hunting lease and things will fall in to perspective. We are headed back to New Mexico late season and cannot wait. Planning and preparation will ensure you the best experience. Do not show up fat and lazy.


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## deers2ward (Sep 28, 2020)

Google is your friend:

For Exercise - Mtn Tough fitness

For Licensing, Draws, and Unit info - Huntinfool, Go Hunt

For General Elk hunting knowledge and FAQ about gear, rifles, DIY logistics - Rokslide Elk forum, Randy Newberg Youtube Videos, Hunt Talk Elk forum, 24 Hour Campfire Elk forum


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## plumber_1969 (Sep 28, 2020)

donblfihu said:


> What does this include?(gas,  license, food what else)



I hunt with my wife so I will show you what we pay:
Licenses were $650 x 2 = $1300 - same price for cow tags on reservation
Gas = 3300 miles round trip for us = 220 gallons = $500
4 nights lodging = $400 (using points at Hampton Inn)
5 nights (when guided on Indian reservation) = $600
5 nights DIY free camping in the National Forest

$2800 est before processor if you choose to do so, guides work for tips and we have always paid ours well for his services and have never been disappointed. 

I don't factor food because you have to eat if you are here or there so that is a wash.

Other things to consider...Do you want to fish while you are there or hunt small game like mountain chickens - grouse?

Overall $1500 - $2000 would be reasonable and you can see where you may be able to shave some costs for yourself. I am not driving 30 hours without sleep. I did 23 hours straight the first time I went out there and was winded for a full day afterwards.
Randy Newberg said you will run out of time before you run out of money and I am a firm believer in that!


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## plumber_1969 (Sep 28, 2020)




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## plumber_1969 (Sep 28, 2020)

Sorry for that mug in the last picture. Shot her across a mountain and did not think about how to get her down. Had to roll her down in to a dry ravine to get on something sort of flat. That shot to the nose was not intentional. She got up and I led her a little too much.


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## Joe Brandon (Sep 29, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Man if you are planning a hunt that far out you need to be getting some preference points between now then if your not already.  I think you would be able to pick up 4 between now and then.  That’ll give you a chance at some better units/seasons when the time comes.


Thanks so much!!!! The last couple days I have been digging in and trying to soak up all I can. Yes w/ 5 years to go I want to make it the best trip possible it's my big motivation for finishing my grad degree. Dont be surprised if I pick your brain in the future. I still have your number I believe. Thanks agian!


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## Joe Brandon (Sep 29, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> Toprut.com is good for looking at success rates and draw rates for units in multiple states.  When you decide to go get a subscription to OnX for your phone, it's awesome to have aerials, topos, and property lines you can download for once you get out there.  For how to stuff, look up Randy Newberg on Youtube.


Mr. Killmaster I cant thank you enough I really appreciate it! Have been relying on paper maps for ga but I reckon its about time I get onx heck it's only 30$ a year.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 29, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Mr. Killmaster I cant thank you enough I really appreciate it! Have been relying on paper maps for ga but I reckon its about time I get onx heck it's only 30$ a year.



Look for promo codes, you can get 20% off.  I think there's still one from the Meateater podcast.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 29, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Hunting license is $83
> Bull or either sex $670
> Cow $503
> 
> I usually camp and stay in a hotel one night on the way home.  A week hunt cost me around $1200 all said and done.



How far do you end up having to pack one out usually?  Pack animals really added to the total for our hunt, but they sure were nice.


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## Etoncathunter (Sep 29, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> Look for promo codes, you can get 20% off.  I think there's still one from the Meateater podcast.


If meateater doesn't still have one The Hunting Public or Born and Raised outdoors  both have codes i think.


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 29, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> How far do you end up having to pack one out usually?  Pack animals really added to the total for our hunt, but they sure were nice.



The farthest I’ve packed one out on my back was about 3 miles.  Thank goodness there were 3 of us.  Most are less than 2 and we have been able to drive the truck or four wheeler up to a couple.  I’ve used an outfitter that offers a pack out service with horses a couple times for back country hunts. Those were around $300 - $400.  That was not included in the $1,200.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 29, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> The farthest I’ve packed one out on my back was about 3 miles.  Thank goodness there were 3 of us.  Most are less than 2 and we have been able to drive the truck or four wheeler up to a couple.  I’ve used an outfitter that offers a pack out service with horses a couple times for back country hunts. Those were around $300 - $400.  That was not included in the $1,200.



We came to the conclusion that pack animals would allow the other hunters in the group to keep hunting instead of assisting with a pack out.  My two trips were both the 5 day 1st rifle hunt, so losing a day to packing out for a fellow hunter was pretty impactful.  On our first trip all 3 of us killed an elk, I don't think that would have happened if we had to stop hunting and help pack for each other.  We did, however, stop and assist with quartering a downed elk and getting it back to our spike camp.  The llamas cost us around $400 to $500 each since we had to rent them for 8 days including our scout days.  They certainly helped with packing gear too.


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 29, 2020)

C.Killmaster said:


> We came to the conclusion that pack animals would allow the other hunters in the group to keep hunting instead of assisting with a pack out.  My two trips were both the 5 day 1st rifle hunt, so losing a day to packing out for a fellow hunter was pretty impactful.  On our first trip all 3 of us killed an elk, I don't think that would have happened if we had to stop hunting and help pack for each other.  We did, however, stop and assist with quartering a downed elk and getting it back to our spike camp.  The llamas cost us around $400 to $500 each since we had to rent them for 8 days including our scout days.  They certainly helped with packing gear too.



I’m very interested in llamas but I’ve never used them.  As much as I enjoy backpacking using llamas to get a little more comfort gear into the backcountry has an appeal to it.  I’m not super comfortable with horses so I’ve always felt like it would be more trouble dealing with them than just using my own legs. From what I understand llamas are lower maintenance than horses. 

The areas I’ve hunted in Colorado have had outfitters that offer a pack out service.  I always touch base with them before I go and shoot them an inReach message just to make sure we have our inReach addresses right.  Then shoot them a message if we kill an elk in a place where we need help packing out.  In those cases you quarter up the elk and get it to a place where the horses can get to it.  You only pay if you use them.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 30, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> I’m very interested in llamas but I’ve never used them.  As much as I enjoy backpacking using llamas to get a little more comfort gear into the backcountry has an appeal to it.  I’m not super comfortable with horses so I’ve always felt like it would be more trouble dealing with them than just using my own legs. From what I understand llamas are lower maintenance than horses.
> 
> The areas I’ve hunted in Colorado have had outfitters that offer a pack out service.  I always touch base with them before I go and shoot them an inReach message just to make sure we have our inReach addresses right.  Then shoot them a message if we kill an elk in a place where we need help packing out.  In those cases you quarter up the elk and get it to a place where the horses can get to it.  You only pay if you use them.



I like the pack out option you mentioned, I just couldn't find many outfitters that would do that where we hunted.  When we picked up the llamas for the first time we had to take a couple hour training with the owner.  They really are a breeze to deal with.  You stake them out in some grass on a 20 foot rope with an auger type dog leash anchor, move them to a new spot as they eat grass, and water them twice a day.  They give you a gallon bag of sweet feed as a treat to make sure they'll come back to you if they get loose, but they feed themselves otherwise.  You just leave them at your spike camp all day while you hunt.


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## Stump06 (Sep 30, 2020)

Colorado has bear tags for $100 now. I went last year and had about $650 round trip in everything. A very affordable hunt. Just know its gonna suck going in and you'll probably be miserable at first. Ive been to Co twice and the 2nd time was a lot more fun bc I knew what to expect. Its a tough hunt for sure but the experience alone is worth it


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## C.Killmaster (Oct 1, 2020)

Stump06 said:


> Colorado has bear tags for $100 now. I went last year and had about $650 round trip in everything. A very affordable hunt. Just know its gonna suck going in and you'll probably be miserable at first. Ive been to Co twice and the 2nd time was a lot more fun bc I knew what to expect. Its a tough hunt for sure but the experience alone is worth it



I don't think I could bring myself to drive that far to kill a bear when we have so many in north GA.  The drive is just brutal for me.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 1, 2020)

@Dudley Do-Wrong thanks for starting this thread as I am learning a ton. For the guys that have been out west how important is premium gear ie Sitka, First Lite, Kenetrek etc?I know that quality of gear is probably a bit more important up there with the harsh elements.


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## NCMTNHunter (Oct 1, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> @Dudley Do-Wrong thanks for starting this thread as I am learning a ton. For the guys that have been out west how important is premium gear ie Sitka, First Lite, Kenetrek etc?I know that quality of gear is probably a bit more important up there with the harsh elements.



If you are camping in or near your truck or staying in a hotel the high end gear is far less important.  In which case you can take plenty of clothes to keep dry and change into.  The main benefits of the high end gear is that it is light weight, it dries out fast, and it doesn’t get rancid when you wear it 6 or 7 days straight without a shower.  If you get flannel or any kind of cotton based clothing wet on day 1 of a backcountry hunt you going to have wet clothes the rest of the trip.


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## C.Killmaster (Oct 1, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> @Dudley Do-Wrong thanks for starting this thread as I am learning a ton. For the guys that have been out west how important is premium gear ie Sitka, First Lite, Kenetrek etc?I know that quality of gear is probably a bit more important up there with the harsh elements.



None of my gear is in that price range and I was fine, but I didn't take any cotton not even undies.  While not necessarily cheap, here was my system that I hunted twice in Colorado and once in Alaska: silk base layer, merino wool thermals, polyester pants and shirt (thin, like you dove hunt in), polyester insulated bibbs (Redhead), and a wool coat.  I also carried thin camo rain gear if I needed to go over the top of everything.  This is all stuff I use here at home, just not all together.  Also, sleeping in my base layers kept nights a lot more cozy in my 0 degree bag with a thermo-reactor liner.  I think you probably just get less bulk and maybe a little more durability with the expensive stuff.


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## Gaswamp (Oct 1, 2020)

boots would b the one thing I wouldn't scimp on


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## shdw633 (Oct 1, 2020)

Gaswamp said:


> boots would b the one thing I wouldn't scimp on



and I would think you would want them broke in well before the hunt.


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## plumber_1969 (Oct 6, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> @Dudley Do-Wrong thanks for starting this thread as I am learning a ton. For the guys that have been out west how important is premium gear ie Sitka, First Lite, Kenetrek etc?I know that quality of gear is probably a bit more important up there with the harsh elements.




Get some good marino wool base layers. I've used Irish Setters Elk Tracker 12" boots for years hunting out west. Some have more insulation than others. I have killed elk in jeans and a wool jacket. IMO, do not get caught up in the name brand camo stuff. You can spend your money on other things more important.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 6, 2020)

plumber_1969 said:


> Get some good marino wool base layers. I've used Irish Setters Elk Tracker 12" boots for years hunting out west. Some have more insulation than others. I have killed elk in jeans and a wool jacket. IMO, do not get caught up in the name brand camo stuff. You can spend your money on other things more important.


Thank you for that! I needed to hear that. It is a relief to not have to spend the majority of my funds on that.


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## zaraspook04 (Oct 8, 2020)

My 2 cents from hunting out west...Wyoming and Colorado. What we wear here in Ga. will work if you are not hiking more that a 1/4 mile! 
With that said...I had the exact same questions @Joe Brandon as you! 
Merino wool base layers, as others have mentioned, is the best. You need one main set and a backup set...if it makes you more comfortable, a backup of the backup. You can wear merino wool for multiple days without it smelling...I promise you, I'm totally amazed at how long I can actually wear merino wool without it smelling because I sweat really bad! But most importantly, merino wool will not let the moisture stay next to your skin, and merino keeps its insulating properties even when it's wet. If you watch Camofire, you can get the Blackovis merino 45%-50% off. I have not been able to beat their price.
I ended up with Kryptek outer layers. It's hands down quality and comfort ratio to cost you will not match. I have Valhalla pants and 1/4 zip pullover, Alaios pants, and Dalibor pants and jacket outer wear. I wear Valhalla for warm to cool, Alaios for cool to cold, and Dalibor for cold. Oh, but price you say...keep reading!!! You have to watch Camofire, but you can get Kryptek at 50%...but here's the golden nugget...Sierra Trading Post will have Kryptek...and at 60%-75% cost. You will be able to wear this stuff for years to come, unless you outgrow it!!!! Sierra Trading Post has the Kryptek merino wool base layers too, but I do not find it as comfortable as the BlackOvis merino wool.
As far as boots go...again that depends on how you plan to hunt or how far you plan to go. If you have bad ankles, you better have something that will support your ankles. Putting just 30 pounds on your back and walking is significantly different, and even more so when you get in the mountains. I do not have problems with my ankles, but the typical boots we wear here, even if they are a hiking boot, are not going to provide the support for out west. There is a reason we can't find Crispi, Kenetrek, etc here in the southeast! I personally have a pair of Crispi Idaho GTX boots. They were comfy right out of the box and needed not break in time. However, I've had them for 3 years and they continue to get more and more comfortable. So, whatever you buy, put some steps in them before you get out west. And...just don't wear them only out west!!! You can catch them on sale for around 20% off. And...wear merino wool socks!!!!!!!! 
One other piece of "wearable" equipment you need to invest in will be gaiters. Gaiters will keep the morning dew or snow from wicking up your pants leg. And if you cross creeks, you will increase your depth to the height of the gaiter, at the bottom of the knee (provided you have a good quality waterproof boot).
Yeah, the quality stuff is pricey...But...buy once, cry once.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 18, 2020)

zaraspook04 said:


> My 2 cents from hunting out west...Wyoming and Colorado. What we wear here in Ga. will work if you are not hiking more that a 1/4 mile!
> With that said...I had the exact same questions @Joe Brandon as you!
> Merino wool base layers, as others have mentioned, is the best. You need one main set and a backup set...if it makes you more comfortable, a backup of the backup. You can wear merino wool for multiple days without it smelling...I promise you, I'm totally amazed at how long I can actually wear merino wool without it smelling because I sweat really bad! But most importantly, merino wool will not let the moisture stay next to your skin, and merino keeps its insulating properties even when it's wet. If you watch Camofire, you can get the Blackovis merino 45%-50% off. I have not been able to beat their price.
> I ended up with Kryptek outer layers. It's hands down quality and comfort ratio to cost you will not match. I have Valhalla pants and 1/4 zip pullover, Alaios pants, and Dalibor pants and jacket outer wear. I wear Valhalla for warm to cool, Alaios for cool to cold, and Dalibor for cold. Oh, but price you say...keep reading!!! You have to watch Camofire, but you can get Kryptek at 50%...but here's the golden nugget...Sierra Trading Post will have Kryptek...and at 60%-75% cost. You will be able to wear this stuff for years to come, unless you outgrow it!!!! Sierra Trading Post has the Kryptek merino wool base layers too, but I do not find it as comfortable as the BlackOvis merino wool.
> ...


Hey I cant thank you enough! This has been some great advice and I went ahead and bought a 200 g Blackovis marino long sleeve for 40$ last night off camofire! Thanks again.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 23, 2020)

So after the Blackovis I went ahead and bought a First Lite base layer as well as a Sitka base layer. The first Lite is Merino and the Sitka is all synthetic. I just wanted to slowly start adding after the Blackovis shirt. The Sitka will at least keep me dry during these hot initial bow hunts here at home.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 26, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> So after the Blackovis I went ahead and bought a First Lite base layer as well as a Sitka base layer. The first Lite is Merino and the Sitka is all synthetic. I just wanted to slowly start adding after the Blackovis shirt. The Sitka will at least keep me dry during these hot initial bow hunts here at home.


You'll be addicted once you wear that quality gear here in the mountains. It's super handy here, especially early bow season and once it hits the single digits. Plus you'll have it for Western hunts.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 26, 2020)

ddd-shooter said:


> You'll be addicted once you wear that quality gear here in the mountains. It's super handy here, especially early bow season and once it hits the single digits. Plus you'll have it for Western hunts.


Thanks yes I'm really looking forward to it! I sweat so much even in the winter here late morning but freeze early so I'm hoping this will really help and reduce my layers. Cotton is just so cold when you sweat it never drys. I appreciate it!


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 26, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Thanks yes I'm really looking forward to it! I sweat so much even in the winter here late morning but freeze early so I'm hoping this will really help and reduce my layers. Cotton is just so cold when you sweat it never drys. I appreciate it!


The one other thing I highly recommend is a Sitka piece with Gore Tex wind stopper. It's just a game changer. Literally. For whitetail, that's the Stratus or fanatic. I don't buy their stuff without it, because to me, I can't see the value there. But that Gore is something else. 

I wore my Stratus Saturday afternoon in the steady rain. I never got wet. Which I wasn't sure about, but really is no big shock. But by the time I walked back to the truck, my jacket was essentially dry. Only very slightly damp, if you could even say that. I would've never imagined it would handle the rain so well. Before then, where I was sold on it was the wind stopping ability. You know how it is up on these ridge tops in December. My fanatic really puts a stop to the wind cutting me. 
When I go west, I can really see me using the Stratus a lot, and the fanatic if it gets snowy.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 26, 2020)

ddd-shooter said:


> The one other thing I highly recommend is a Sitka piece with Gore Tex wind stopper. It's just a game changer. Literally. For whitetail, that's the Stratus or fanatic. I don't buy their stuff without it, because to me, I can't see the value there. But that Gore is something else.
> 
> I wore my Stratus Saturday afternoon in the steady rain. I never got wet. Which I wasn't sure about, but really is no big shock. But by the time I walked back to the truck, my jacket was essentially dry. Only very slightly damp, if you could even say that. I would've never imagined it would handle the rain so well. Before then, where I was sold on it was the wind stopping ability. You know how it is up on these ridge tops in December. My fanatic really puts a stop to the wind cutting me.
> When I go west, I can really see me using the Stratus a lot, and the fanatic if it gets snowy.


Is the fanatic the lighter of the two? And thanks again!


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 26, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Is the fanatic the lighter of the two? And thanks again!


Fanatic is the insulated piece with wind stopper. It's for as cold as it will get in Georgia up to about 45ish. 
Stratus is un insulated. Like a waterproof/wind proof fleece jacket essentially. It's for everything warmer than fanatic temps. Which can be a lot in the mountains of GA. Good layering and you can hunt out of it to freezing temps, but I'd use a vest for insulation. 
I also have fanatic bibs, which make the set virtually unstoppable in Georgia weather. I can get by with merino baselayers and a Stratus until time to break out the bibs. 
I usually climb in my baselayers and put on outer layers at the base of my tree.


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## CroMagnum (Oct 26, 2020)

Joe Brandon said:


> Thank you! I look forward to this trip. I am going to plan it for 2025 as a gift to myself when I finish grad school. I appreciate it I will start watching!


You might also want to watch Meateater and Randy Newberg, Hunter. They both use llamas fairly often


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## benellisbe (Nov 15, 2021)

Just wanted to add to this thread.  I am looking at a '22 Archery DIY OTC CO elk hunt myself.  For anyone else looking at elk hunting, the above info is great. I am a firm believer in KUIU gear.  in '19 I went to NM chasing Elk and ended up sitting on a mountain top glassing in a freezing rain/snow/hail situation.  I do hate the price, but I will gladly pay it.  We went from 55 degree weather to snow in about an hour.  I would have been absolutely miserable in cotton based hunting gear.  

One other thing I will add, if you are going to an area where glassing is an option (or desire), do not buy the cheapest spotting scope you can find.  Quality does make a big difference.  Vortex makes decent gear for reasonable prices (I have one as well as a Leupold).  Depending on the GMU we decide on for 22 I will probably bite the bullet and get a Swarovski spotting scope.  My guide in NM had the BTX system and it was amazing how much clearer it was than my personal scope (same goes for binos).

With regards to physical fitness, it will all depend on the land terrain and elevation.  I don't care how in shape you are in Georgia... above 7k feet elevation will take the energy out of you.  In NM (7500' elevation), I did over 50 miles on my feet over a 5 day hunt.  Before I left I was walking 5 miles with a pack (40 lbs) and rifle 2x3 times a week for 6 months before I left.  I will absolutely tell you that it wouldn't have mattered if I was doing 10 miles a day, you can't train for elevation.  DO NOT GO WITH CHEAP BOOTS!  I had a decent set of irish setters and my feet were extremely sore from walking over jagged rocks all day.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Nov 17, 2021)

I just turned 64 and am having back surgery next month.  I try to go to the gym but my back prevents me from doing a lot.  Hopefully I will recover and be able to fulfill this dream hunt very soon


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## Gaswamp (Nov 17, 2021)

Getting old ain't fun


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## flconch53 (Nov 17, 2021)

It ain't for sissies eithet


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## plumber_1969 (Nov 24, 2021)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> I just turned 64 and am having back surgery next month.  I try to go to the gym but my back prevents me from doing a lot.  Hopefully I will recover and be able to fulfill this dream hunt very soon



I suffered a broken back over 20 years ago. Know your limitations and listen to your body. I have been holding off surgery and will continue to do so as long as I can. Our packs were too heavy and we carried in way more food than was necessary. For some reason, I did not eat near as much as I thought I would. Drink more water than you will ever thinnk you need to because you don't sweat as much in the higher elevations.


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## flconch53 (Nov 25, 2021)

Actually you Sweat more but the low humidity evaporates the sweat as fast as it comes out so you don't notice it.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 8, 2021)

Keeping yourself Hydrated is one of the most important things you can do. In 1996 I went to Northern New Mexico in Mid November on a  Migration Elk hunt. The outfitter had a large floor cooler that he kept filled all the time with assorted fruit juices. All of these were in the little boxes you stick a straw into. After breakfast we would fill out our packs and pockets with all we could carry, seldom did we bring any back.
For that trip I bought my gear from Cabelas. New thinsulate and goretex coat and bibs, Rain gear, a shirt with a goretex wind proof lining, new synthetic monocellular base layers, New rocky boots w/thinsulate, etc. All this in addition to the gear I already had, to the tune of around $1400. at 1996 prices. Once I worked out how much to wear, and not to wear, it all worked great. After that trip I bought a set of wool pants for my main goto bottoms.
I have since made a few more trips with the same gear and use it all during the Georgia deer season.
IMHO you should be in as good physical condition as possible. The better shape your in the more you will enjoy your hunt. My routine for my hunts was this, I taught TAE KWON DO at my school 3 nights a week and I was not the sort to stand and watch instead I was an active teacher, I trained at another school 2 nights a week for my next rank and was an assistant instructor there, during the week I ran 8 miles a day and worked out on a weight machine every chance I got. On the weekends I hiked all the hills I could find with weights in my pack for several hours. If possible I tried to go out there a week in advance and hike places like Rocky Mountain National Park, BLM land, anyplace I could find with some elevation and hills.
All this helps prepare your body for the hunt. For the first couple of days I find it hard to breath, the higher we are the harder it is to draw a full breath, I push myself hard and sometimes get a touch of altitude sickness but usually in the second day everything becomes easier, by the third day I can almost keep up with my guide, someone who does this all season long and is used to the altitude. That right there makes all the work worth it.
Lastly, don't let your guide set your pace. He will have you bent over sucking air almost constantly. As soon as you decide how much you can take then tell him and don't let him have you running to catch up.
Of course all that is in the past as I'm now 70 years old. It can be a young man's game.
Practice shooting your rifle. I tried to shoot at least twice a week. My routine was 5 shots sitting, 5 shots prone, and 10 shots offhand. Master that and you will be ready.


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## flconch53 (Dec 8, 2021)

I found that no matter how good a shape you are in at Sea Level at 7000 ft plus you will find breathing tough so Like Darkhorse said don't let the guide set the place. In a perfect world getting out there for a week ahead of time would help.


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