# Hunting public rivers



## lead slinger (Oct 3, 2014)

I haven't really been able to find a definitive answer anywhere, but is it legal to hunt on any public waters? 
(Rivers specifically?)


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## bcspinks89 (Oct 3, 2014)

any ga river can be duck hunted. just don't get off of the river itself.  just asked the game warden about this not even 30 min ago.


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## across the river (Oct 3, 2014)

bcspinks89 said:


> any ga river can be duck hunted. just don't get off of the river itself.  just asked the game warden about this not even 30 min ago.



Not true.   The river has to be considered navigable to be duck hunted.  Tell the game warden to read the regs.


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## bowtechrulez (Oct 3, 2014)

across the river said:


> Not true.   The river has to be considered navigable to be duck hunted.



what is considered navigable? Because some people have mud motors that can get places outboards cant and air boats as well.


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## T-N-T (Oct 3, 2014)

Oh this is way more complicated than you think.  
Someone want to "implant" the thread on "navigable". I'm too ignorant to do so.


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## lead slinger (Oct 3, 2014)

What about in South Carolina?


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## JustUs4All (Oct 3, 2014)

Navigable includes all the riparian waters along the coast and rivers that were navigated in commerce regularly by steamboats in the middle 1800s.  There are several, in my area.  The Savannah fits this description up to the rapids in Augusta.  Beyond that the hunting and fishing on the water is governed by whoever owns the land beneath that water.  I

On a non navigable body of water, if the same landowner owns both sides of the river or other body of water he has the same control over it that he does any of his other land.  He can close it to hunting, fishing, and trespassing if he wishes to.


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## across the river (Oct 3, 2014)

bowtechrulez said:


> what is considered navigable? Because some people have mud motors that can get places outboards cant and air boats as well.




From the books:  Navigable means "capable of transporting boats loaded with freight in the regular course of trade either for a whole or a part of the year. The mere transporting of timber or the transporting of wood in small boats shall not make a stream navigable" (OCGA 44-8-5, 1863). 
 So just being able to get a canoe or mud motor up the river or creek does not count.  Basically any tidal water or water in rivers that freight was hauled in (Savannah, Omulgee, Flint, etc..) up to the fall line is legally hunt able by the public, as long as you stay in the boat, and stay in the main channel where the freight was hauled.   If you pull off in a Oxbow or up a creek off of the main river, the landowner can have you charged for trespassing, hunting without permission, whatever.    Many times different people own opposite sides of the river, so people often hunt non-navigable sections of a lot of rivers.  However,  that doesn't mean the landowner doesn't have the legal right to prevent you from hunting or even fishing in their section of the river, especially if they own both sides.


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## 27metalman (Oct 4, 2014)

This is a great topic.  I know people that shoot on the Ocmulgee River above and below Macon... Inside the city is illegal --- it's in the city limits.  I think it'd be very difficult for a land owner to stop  anyone from hunting on this river and it's not "navigable" by definition.  If a river or creek has a "public" boat landing... by what legal means could anyone say anything to you? I'm looking forward to other replies.


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## GSURugger (Oct 4, 2014)

If I put a goat and bale of cotton in my mudboat, move it upriver, and exchange said freight for US currency, is it navigable?


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## across the river (Oct 4, 2014)

27metalman said:


> This is a great topic.  I know people that shoot on the Ocmulgee River above and below Macon... Inside the city is illegal --- it's in the city limits.  I think it'd be very difficult for a land owner to stop  anyone from hunting on this river and it's not "navigable" by definition.  If a river or creek has a "public" boat landing... by what legal means could anyone say anything to you? I'm looking forward to other replies.



Here is a reference to an actual legal case. It deals with fishing, but the same would apply to duck hunting. The only thing that doesn't technically "belong" to the land owner is the water.   You can boat, float, or jet ski on it.  That is why there is a public boat ramp on many of these rivers.  However,  the land owner has the legal right to prevent you from even fishing on his side of the river, and they can prevent you from fishing in the entire section of the river if they happen to own both sides.   Legally, they can do it, but in most situation people aren't constantly sitting on the bank looking to lock people up for fishing on there side of the river.  The same goes for duck hunting.   If you are hunting a non-navigable river on my side of the middle of the river, I can have you prosecuted.  It doesn't mean I will, but I could. 

"By the common law the right to take fish belongs essentially to the right of soil in the streams where the tide does not ebb and flow. If the riparian owner owns upon both sides of the stream, no one but himself may come within the limits of his land and take fish there. The same right applies so far as his land extends to the thread of the stream, where he owns upon one side only. Within these limits, by the common law, his rights of fishery are sole and exclusive."


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## 27metalman (Oct 4, 2014)

I agree with the post above... to a point.  The Bond Swamp Refuge owns both sides of Stone Creek for a good portion of that creek.  Once you get to a point of where they own both sides of the creek, you fall into the "Feds" laws and regulations.  Way back when before it was open, they had signs posted stating no fishing beyond this point.  I wouldn't want to fight that fight with the Feds.  This creek is far different than the Ocmulgee River though.  I've never heard of anyone being asked to move or threatened to be prosecuted.  I think they possibly "can" legally, but what a mess all that would stir up.


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## across the river (Oct 5, 2014)

27metalman said:


> I agree with the post above... to a point.  The Bond Swamp Refuge owns both sides of Stone Creek for a good portion of that creek.  Once you get to a point of where they own both sides of the creek, you fall into the "Feds" laws and regulations.  Way back when before it was open, they had signs posted stating no fishing beyond this point.  I wouldn't want to fight that fight with the Feds.  This creek is far different than the Ocmulgee River though.  I've never heard of anyone being asked to move or threatened to be prosecuted.  I think they possibly "can" legally, but what a mess all that would stir up.



That us what you asked, "What legal right do they have?"
If I own properly on one side of a non-navigable river,  I have the right to keep you from fishing on my side of the river out to the middle.  If I own both sides, then I have the right to keep you from fishing (or hunting) any of my section go the river. There is no real difference. Again, most people don't sit on the bank and police it all day, but that doesn't mean they couldn't.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 5, 2014)

GSURugger said:


> If I put a goat and bale of cotton in my mudboat, move it upriver, and exchange said freight for US currency, is it navigable?



Probably not. Someone already tried to prove it with a barge, a bale of cotton and a goat and lost.  

There is a very good discussion if the issue here:  http://nsglc.olemiss.edu/SandBar/SandBar3/3.1comment.htm


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## The Longhunter (Oct 5, 2014)

> DNR has added to the confusion by installing boat ramps around the state for boat access to clearly privately owned rivers -- again, because the owners of the riverbed have historically allowed such access.  I'll leave it to DNR to sort of the consequences of doing that.



I am quoting myself, because just today, I received an email from DNR about them opening a small craft ramp on the Ohoopee Dunes area, on the Ohoopee River.  The Ohoopee River is quintessential "non-navigable" river, but it's also an example of a river in which the landowners have never made an issue about river access.  I have fished up that river many times coming off the Altamaha River -- Ohoopee River redbreast are beautiful.  But I'd like to hear an explanation from DNR about its reasoning on putting a "public ramp" providing access to "private property."  Not being critical, would just like to know.


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## 27metalman (Oct 5, 2014)

Propose this...  Let's say that I own both sides of a river.  Since I can tell you to move on or can call the warden cause you're trespassing, couldn't I put up a fence across the river to keep folks out? Seems like I could? It's my property.


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## GSURugger (Oct 5, 2014)

It's been done in fact.  Fella cabled off a piece of river/creek if I remember correctly.


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## The Longhunter (Oct 5, 2014)

27metalman said:


> Propose this...  Let's say that I own both sides of a river.  Since I can tell you to move on or can call the warden cause you're trespassing, couldn't I put up a fence across the river to keep folks out? Seems like I could? It's my property.



Yes, you can.


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## king killer delete (Oct 6, 2014)

GSURugger said:


> If I put a goat and bale of cotton in my mudboat, move it upriver, and exchange said freight for US currency, is it navigable?


 How does that bale of cotton work as a duck blind and does that goat retreive?


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## king killer delete (Oct 6, 2014)

I have seen creeks that feed into the Sav the river down here on the coast blocked with rail road rails driven into the bottom of a  creek.  I have seen cables across creeks that you could drive into with a boat blocked with a steel cable and posted signs on each side of the bank and this was north of Augusta. I know that you can hunt most of the rivers but you better know what the local game warden says about a spot before you set up your decoys.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 6, 2014)

If you are not on a piece of water that falls within Georgia's definition of a riparian or navigable waterway, it does not matter what the GW thinks, you need to check with the landowner.


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## king killer delete (Oct 6, 2014)

JustUs4All said:


> If you are not on a piece of water that falls within Georgia's definition of a riparian or navigable waterway, it does not matter what the GW thinks, you need to check with the landowner.


Sometimes down here on the coast we check with the game warden because it is state land and some places you can hunt and some you can not. But you are right about talking with the land owner.


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## across the river (Oct 6, 2014)

27metalman said:


> Propose this...  Let's say that I own both sides of a river.  Since I can tell you to move on or can call the warden cause you're trespassing, couldn't I put up a fence across the river to keep folks out? Seems like I could? It's my property.



You don't even have to own it.  You can just lease both sides.

http://www.lawskills.com/case/ga/id/164/0/index.html


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## mmcneil (Oct 6, 2014)

Talked to a game warden  today.  He told me if you can get a boat there without having to get out of the boat and drag it (barrier-beaver dam etc) it was legal to hunt.  He told me to never step foot on the land not even to retrieve a bird and it was legal.


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## GSURugger (Oct 6, 2014)

Once again. Do not take legal advice from a LEO.


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## mmcneil (Oct 6, 2014)

Agreed.  I didn't think it was ok, just thought I would ask him while we were talking.


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## across the river (Oct 6, 2014)

mmcneil said:


> Talked to a game warden  today.  He told me if you can get a boat there without having to get out of the boat and drag it (barrier-beaver dam etc) it was legal to hunt.  He told me to never step foot on the land not even to retrieve a bird and it was legal.



I had a game warden once tell me a hen gadwall was a mallard.   I saw another game warden at Butler tell people they couldn't let the students from ABAC cut of both wings of their ducks because they could be identified, even though the ducks still had their heads and bills.  Again, half of the game wardens don't know the rules, especially when it comes to duck hunting.


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## The Longhunter (Oct 6, 2014)

mmcneil said:


> Talked to a game warden  today.  He told me if you can get a boat there without having to get out of the boat and drag it (barrier-beaver dam etc) it was legal to hunt.  He told me to never step foot on the land not even to retrieve a bird and it was legal.



Cruise up into Morgan Lake off the Altamaha, and when they bust you (and they will), call him up to get you out of jail.


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## mmcneil (Oct 6, 2014)

Im not saying it is or isn't legal.  Im simply telling you what I was told, and I take it for what it's worth.  Its one persons opion/discretion vs anothers.  I dont and will not hunt water like this.  Im sure most gw will interpret the law differently. Therefore I hunt areas that are not in question.


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## king killer delete (Oct 7, 2014)

mmcneil said:


> Im not saying it is or isn't legal.  Im simply telling you what I was told, and I take it for what it's worth.  Its one persons opion/discretion vs anothers.  I dont and will not hunt water like this.  Im sure most gw will interpret the law differently. Therefore I hunt areas that are not in question.


 X2 X2 to this


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## huntingonthefly (Oct 7, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> Cruise up into Morgan Lake off the Altamaha, and when they bust you (and they will), call him up to get you out of jail.


Not no more.


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## huntingonthefly (Oct 7, 2014)

What about Hughes Old River upstream? Griffin Ridge WMA is on one side for a long ways in but they post at river mouth. Local judges members?


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## flyfisher76544 (Oct 7, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> Cruise up into Morgan Lake off the Altamaha, and when they bust you (and they will), call him up to get you out of jail.



It is now part of a WMA.



huntingonthefly said:


> What about Hughes Old River upstream? Griffin Ridge WMA is on one side for a long ways in but they post at river mouth. Local judges members?



They have been told to take those signs down by the DNR several times. I think they leave them up just to keep folks confused on the boundaries.


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## The Flying Duckman (Oct 7, 2014)

Up here in the North end of the state, we have several rivers you can access by boat at public ramps that have private property on both sides. People have floated these rivers for years hunting them, and occasionally someone gets busted for trespassing.  I owned property at one point on one of these rivers and my property boundry was to the center of the river, and that is what I paid taxes own.  Had a tree hugger floating down it one time stop and tell me that he wanted to complain about some pushed over trees on the river bank (the builder had pushed up before I bought said property).  I asked him where he came from, he said the river, I asked him to show me where his boat was, and sure enough it was own my property, I told him he was trespassing and that the best thing he could do was to get back in his boat and paddle his rear end on down the river before I pressed charges on him, and he did. But I never bothered people fishing or hunting as long as they did not make a mess.

So like many others, I have spoken to several wardens up on this end of the state and this is the response I have received from them. Yes you can float the river and hunt as long as your not in a posted safe zone or city limits.  Yes you can shoot a duck (as long as you are legal and have all you liscense), you can retreive said duck legally as long as it is in the water.  If the bird falls on dry land and you get out of the boat to retreive the bird, then you are trespassing and can and will be prosecuted if the land owner calls and presses charges.  If you carry your gun onto the property to retreive said bird, you can face hunting without permission charges also.


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## Gaducker (Oct 7, 2014)

If I can acess it by public boat ramp without getting out of the boat I am huntin it as long as I can set up without settin on somebodys dock.   Been workin for me for ALOT of years and i aint never got no ticket.  Them local game wardens dont want nobody shootin there ducks thats why they spread these tales of tickets and fines.

Cause there are no navigable water ways in middle ga when you base it off the 1800s definition of navigable.

A public boat ramp has always been my excuse but if we have permission from a landowner to slip a boat in without a ramp that was just as good...

One river in particular was a very good producer many years ago and we had no permission and no public ramp but there was a big bridge way up river with a big right of way and we would launch the boat right under the bridge and pull the truck up on the lower shoulder of the road.  We got harrased by the land owner for parking there so we got the GW involved and he made it very clear to the land owner that we were more than legal by 20 or 30 feet.    That was back when we had more energy we dont go to all that trouble nowadays.


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## The Longhunter (Oct 7, 2014)

huntingonthefly said:


> What about Hughes Old River upstream? Griffin Ridge WMA is on one side for a long ways in but they post at river mouth. Local judges members?



Hughes Old River is a very special case.  They took their case all the way the Georgia Supreme Court, which found that their title went all the way back to the King of England, their rights predated those of the State of Georgia, and the owners owned the river bottom, even though it's on a navigable river, and therefore they can keep people out.  That little piece of river belongs to Hughes Old River, per the Georgia Supreme Court.  You can, as they say, look it up.





> They have been told to take those signs down by the DNR several times. I think they leave them up just to keep folks confused on the boundaries.



DNR can keep on telling that, and Hughes Old River is going to keep on ignoring them, see above.  Until DNR gets a Georgia Supreme Court decision saying that that piece of river doesn't belong to Hughes Old River, they (HOR) are pretty comfortable with what they are doing.

For the historically minded, Hughes Old River was a regular steam boat landing and you can still see remnants of the old landing/pier there.  That was a key issue in the litigation -- as a proven "steamboat landing" clearly met the Georgia definition of a navigable river.  Not so said the Georgia Supreme Court.

Thanks for the information about Morgan Lake, didn't realize it was part of a WMA.  But the point is the same, because back in the day, fishing or hunting there was a free ticket to the Long County jail, and it's easily accessible from the river. When Lester Maddox busted the speed trap in Ludiwici, Long County had to make up for lost revenue.  It was one of the rare locations where the sheriff made most of the hunting and fishing w/o permission cases, because the local game wardens weren't that interested (lots of local politics, too much to write here).

My mind is a little fuzzy, but I think someone got shot intentionally several years ago.

Another historical tidbit, in the late 70's and early 80's, the local game warden didn't make cases in Hughes Old River on the same theory espoused above, then Hughes Old River won it's case in the Supreme Court. 

The former owners of the Griffin Ridge WMA financed the Hughes Old River lawsuit because poachers were using it to access what is now Griffin Ridge WMA, and at high water, access Dunn's Lake, which is still private property.  Those owners wanted to see Hughes Old River treated as private so it could be posted and cut off river access to Griffin Ridge.  The Supreme Court obliged them.  Who knew King George III would still be deciding property rights in Georgia.


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## flyfisher76544 (Oct 7, 2014)

That is interesting, thanks for the history lesson. The signs they were told to remove were on the WMA side of the river...... not the other. The guys out there don't seem to have an issue with folks that are just fishing, never had any of them say anything to me. I just got back from Morgan's and it is now part of Griffin Ridge WMA. Heck it is even cleaned up a bit and they put down some gravel to help out with the road.


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## mguthrie (Oct 7, 2014)

I know peeps that hunt the south river and the yellow river in Newton county and the ocumulgy below lake Jackson all the time. Never had a problem. There's public boat ramps.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 7, 2014)

There are public boat remps on rivers where there is Ga DNR or US Forest service ownership.  A little further up or down the river and the private ownership begins.  



mmcneil said:


> Talked to a game warden  today.  He told me if you can get a boat there without having to get out of the boat and drag it (barrier-beaver dam etc) it was legal to hunt.  He told me to never step foot on the land not even to retrieve a bird and it was legal.



Your game warded is misinformed.



Gaducker said:


> If I can acess it by public boat ramp without getting out of the boat I am huntin it as long as I can set up without settin on somebodys dock.   Been workin for me for ALOT of years and i aint never got no ticket.  Them local game wardens dont want nobody shootin there ducks thats why they spread these tales of tickets and fines.
> 
> Cause there are no navigable water ways in middle ga when you base it off the 1800s definition of navigable.
> 
> A public boat ramp has always been my excuse but if we have permission from a landowner to slip a boat in without a ramp that was just as good...



It is probably just a matter of time.


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## Gaducker (Oct 7, 2014)

JustUs4All said:


> There are public boat remps on rivers where there is Ga DNR or US Forest service ownership.  A little further up or down the river and the private ownership begins.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





It maybe a matter of time but at this point in my life I would venture to say I have beat the odds and that the odds are in my favor now.   I am not saying I have never been checked,  Heck I been checked more than most I would say but come on, all them wardens cant be misinformed....  They may not know the laws but if they were wrong in what they were doing I am sure alot of angry complainers would have set the ball in motion to get this prob straight.

The river I spoke of a few posts ago had a wma ramp installed at a later date and then it was free game on the entire river..


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## jay sullivent (Oct 7, 2014)

You guys can all dispute this till you're blue in the face. Its all subject to interpretation. Its best to call the officers that patrol the area you want to hunt. They will be the ones to give or not give you a ticket.


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## jay sullivent (Oct 7, 2014)

You better get their names numbers and preferably a business card as and inform them when and where you plan to hunt. Most of them are good guys and will help you stay legal if you ask for their help


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## misterpink (Oct 7, 2014)

This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn. See uh, this here river don't go nowhere near Aintry.


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## jay sullivent (Oct 7, 2014)

mmcneil said:


> Talked to a game warden  today.  He told me if you can get a boat there without having to get out of the boat and drag it (barrier-beaver dam etc) it was legal to hunt.  He told me to never step foot on the land not even to retrieve a bird and it was legal.


He lied


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## welderguy (Oct 7, 2014)

misterpink said:


> This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn. See uh, this here river don't go nowhere near Aintry.



HA! That's classic!!!


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## The Longhunter (Oct 7, 2014)

JustUs4All said:


> It is probably just a matter of time.



This is the best answer so far.

We have already seen it happen with trout streams, which have become increasingly privatized and off limits to the public.  

Go up to the Toccoa River in the private section and try that "if I can float through, I can fish it," and see what happens.  No difference between hunting and fishing private property.


Duck rivers are more remote, and therefore less subject to the privatization we have seen on the trout rivers, but it will come.


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## mguthrie (Oct 10, 2014)

Our club is on the Oconee river. Public boat ramp that is technically on our property. People have been hunting and fishing there for decades. We don't have a problem with it and would never prosecute anyone. Several boat ramps along that stretch in Washington, Johnson and Lauren's ctys


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## across the river (Oct 10, 2014)

mguthrie said:


> Our club is on the Oconee river. Public boat ramp that is technically on our property. People have been hunting and fishing there for decades. We don't have a problem with it and would never prosecute anyone. Several boat ramps along that stretch in Washington, Johnson and Lauren's ctys



It doesn't matter if you had a problem with it or not, you couldn't prosecute anyway.  The Oconee river below  Milledgeville is navigable, so people have the right to hunt and fish that section all they want to.  Columbus, Macon, Milledgeville, Louisville, and Augusta are all located where they are because that is as far up river as freight could be hauled.  Anything on those rivers south of those towns and any tidal water is considered navigable and the public can "legally" hunt it all they want.


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## 27metalman (Oct 11, 2014)

Still going... Referring back to a post of mine --- all hypothetical of course.  If I put up two strands of barb wire across the river and let's say a boat with 2-3 people in it, ran into it and all died.  I'd get sued and prosecuted.  My defense would be that I was just fencing in my land.  Anyone think that I'd win or walk away free and clear... it's my land you know? We've established that already. ???


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## 27metalman (Oct 11, 2014)

Ooops... forgot to include.  A few old timers around here remember when barges came up the Ocmulgee River to Macon.

I'm just saying...


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