# Interesting ID/Evolution DVD



## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

check out this article about a DVD that discusses the butterfly.   The butterfly provides huge problems to darwinian evolutionary theory, and this DVD discusses the implications.    Butterflies...."Animations based on MRI imaging of a chrysalis show for the first time how organs are broken down and rebuilt inside within ten days."    Awesome material, no doubt!

http://crev.info/content/110725-butterfly_swarm_buries_darwin


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

If these guys think they've discovered something new that will turn evolution on it's head they should write up their research and submit it to peer reviewed science journals.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

lol   nothing will ever turn evolution on its head!   besides creation and ID, evolution is the only player they've got!   

I think this DVD presents the facts about the life cycle of the butterfly.   "No religion is pushed, no scripture quoted; just the clear implication that the complexity and coordination of parts in a butterfly, more complex than our science can describe..."    Just information you all of us to use as we consider life's origin.


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## ambush80 (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol   nothing will ever turn evolution on its head!   besides creation and ID, evolution is the only player they've got!
> 
> I think this DVD presents the facts about the life cycle of the butterfly.   "No religion is pushed, no scripture quoted; just the clear implication that the complexity and coordination of parts in a butterfly, more complex than our science can describe..."    Just information you all of us to use as we consider life's origin.



Must be magic.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

if you don't believe they were designed, magic is what you have to have faith in.


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## ambush80 (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> if you don't believe they were designed, magic is what you have to have faith in.



I will reserve "magic" as an absolute last resort answer.  I'll allow the good folks that keep asking questions and conducting experiments  to do their honorable work and leave the hocus pocus talk to the mystics.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> I will reserve "magic" as an absolute last resort answer.  I'll allow the good folks that keep asking questions and conducting experiments  to do their honorable work and leave the hocus pocus talk to the mystics.



lol    I like how the 'good folks' take all the evidence and try to force it into one theory.   no matter how it contradicts earlier findings!      Evolution is a slow process, unless it needs to be fast!   (Punctuated equilibrium)    Since life couldn't have started on Earth, let's create a theory that says it was planted here from space!   

You'll die waiting for them to solve OOL.   The 'good folks' are only considering one possibility.


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol   nothing will ever turn evolution on its head!   besides creation and ID, evolution is the only player they've got!
> 
> I think this DVD presents the facts about the life cycle of the butterfly.   "No religion is pushed, no scripture quoted; just the clear implication that the complexity and coordination of parts in a butterfly, more complex than our science can describe..."    Just information you all of us to use as we consider life's origin.



Intelligent design is religion masquerading as science. That was thoroughly exposed in the Kitzmiller v Dover case.

The argument from complexity is not new. Creationists said the same thing about the eye.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

"A caterpillar entering a chrysalis is entering a casket unless it has a plan and a coordinated process to emerge out the other side."      True....and thought provoking.

Maybe the caterpillar just got really lucky?      Maybe they kept entering the chrysalis over and over and over until, magically, the organs rearranged and formed into a beautiful butterfly?    It could happen, given millions of years, huh?


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## ambush80 (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol    I like how the 'good folks' take all the evidence and try to force it into one theory.   no matter how it contradicts earlier findings!      Evolution is a slow process, unless it needs to be fast!   (Punctuated equilibrium)    Since life couldn't have started on Earth, let's create a theory that says it was planted here from space!
> 
> You'll die waiting for them to solve OOL.   The 'good folks' are only considering one possibility.



Actually, they use new technology as it becomes available to refine and re-define their theories.  Often there are opposing theories, like "Did T-Rex hunt or scavange?" and the good folks do the best they can with what they've got to try to figure out which it was.  

I'm afraid the same process of scrutiny is not applied to the Bible, which says that T-rex was killed by a flood a couple thousand years ago.  Or maybe they were hunted to extinction by the apostles.  That's some solid footing there.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

it takes a catastrophe to get fossils.        I could shoot a T-Rex with my Hoyt Maxxis and, if I couldn't recover him after a trail job, it would never turn into a fossil.

most fossils are the result of being quickly covered in sediment.       Trying to think of what could account for that?   Hmmmmm


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

How is that any different from an embryo in an egg having a "plan"?

As I said before, if these guys have some groundbreaking research that tells us something about the butterfly that couldn't be accounted for by evolution they should do the research and then go through the peer review process to get their findings published. If they aren't doing that and are only putting out a 46 minute documentary for home schoolers that should tell you something.


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## pnome (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol   nothing will ever turn evolution on its head!



Not so.

Evolution is falsifiable.  Unlike Intelligent Design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precambrian_rabbit



> Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins said that the discovery of fossil mammals in Precambrian rocks would *"completely blow evolution out of the water."*


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Trying to think of what could account for that?   Hmmmmm



Can't think of anything. What do you have in mind?


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jul 26, 2011)

I agree.   I think before I say anything more about this DVD I'll have to actually watch it and see where/who they get their research from.

I'm sure I'm not alone, though, in wondering how the genetic information for a caterpillar to do an about-face in the chrysalis got there in the first place.   Like the editor of the article states, the first caterpillar to enter the chrysalis would have been entering a casket without everything needed for the change being in place.   It amazes me, if no one else.


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

They are amazing, no doubt about that.

I'll tell you a creature that fascinates me probably more than any other is the jellyfish that is considered biologically immortal because it can revert to sexual immaturity after reproducing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula


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## pnome (Jul 26, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> They are amazing, no doubt about that.
> 
> I'll tell you a creature that fascinates me probably more than any other is the jellyfish that is considered biologically immortal because it can revert to sexual immaturity after reproducing.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula



If you think that's cool.  Have you heard of Pando?


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## atlashunter (Jul 26, 2011)

Never heard of that, very cool.


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## bullethead (Jul 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> it takes a catastrophe to get fossils.        I could shoot a T-Rex with my Hoyt Maxxis and, if I couldn't recover him after a trail job, it would never turn into a fossil.
> 
> most fossils are the result of being quickly covered in sediment.       Trying to think of what could account for that?   Hmmmmm



A large asteroid strike? An explosion from a volcano? Each happening hundreds of millions of years ago when Those dinosaurs roamed the earth.

I am fuzzy how T-Rexs'  that are hundreds of millions of years old got quickly covered by a flood that is 5000 years old?


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 26, 2011)

Dang... so it's a "pando tree" or this thing is affectionately referred to as Pando?


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## pnome (Jul 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Dang... so it's a "pando tree" or this thing is affectionately referred to as Pando?



It's a quaking aspen.  Affectionately referred to as Pando.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 26, 2011)

Crazy. Thanks for the link.


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