# Did Jesus have a human soul?



## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2012)

I believe he did since he was both Divine & man? Every man has a soul. I can find verses where Jesus says he has a soul but are there any verses saying exactly what kind of soul Jesus has? When Jesus died his soul went somewhere Sheol/Hades to preach.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 18, 2012)

My opinion is He functioned as human, being a carpenter and all. He had a perfect sinless soul and spirit. I'm sure He had a personality (soul) and not only spiritually minded.
I'm sure He laughed and joked around and ate, etc etc etc, just like we do.  

Not saying that being spiritually minded is totally seperate from our/His soul. He just didn't have to keep His soul in check like we do.


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## StriperAddict (Oct 18, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> My opinion is He functioned as human, being a carpenter and all. He had a perfect sinless soul and spirit. I'm sure He had a personality (soul) and not only spiritually minded.
> I'm sure He laughed and joked around and ate, etc etc etc, just like we do.
> 
> Not saying that being spiritually minded is totally seperate from our/His soul. He just didn't have to keep His soul in check like we do.


 
Well said sister.

Mind, Will and emotions = soul.

Yep, our Lord certainly had one. 



> He had a perfect sinless soul and spirit.


It's my belief, as I see scripture, that from the day of our justification, regeneration and born into the "new creature", that we do too!


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## Ronnie T (Oct 18, 2012)

Just what is our soul?
What is it made up of.
We know that we have a soul and a spirit.
What is our soul?


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Just what is our soul?
> What is it made up of.
> We know that we have a soul and a spirit.
> What is our soul?



I thought our soul and spirit was the same thing?


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## gordon 2 (Oct 18, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I thought our soul and spirit was the same thing?



Not in the christian tradition it is not. Google Soul and then on to wiki for a primer.

Without thinking to much about it I like Conciousness as a synomym for Soul. Therefore as concious beings we entertain spirits, but we can forgo some or all of these and recieve the Holy Spirit if we choose.

Also it is kind of interesting that we continue with our Souls after death. Although I have never looked up scripture on it. If it is the case, we'll be "walking" around naked with our soul and our spirit(s) for a while for all to see!!!!!!!!!!! ( minus body). I hope fig leaves will be handy for this old soul.... I know I have a few contrary spirits that will definately show...right now I can dissimulate them with body language...and a cautious diction.

So yes Jesus had human conciousness and therefore a soul. He could see, feel, sense the soul's spirit (s) figuratively a mile off, because he had a perpective( the Holy Spirit and his Father) to bounce them off of...


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2012)

MtnWoman described it to me pretty good. I'll have to let it sink in for awhile.

So when Jesus died it was his spirit that went to preach?


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2012)

I think I found my answer in 1 Peter 3:18-19 
18.For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. 19.By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

It was his Spirit that did this. Not the Holy Spirit.
Commentary:
By the Spirit - According to the common reading in the Greek, this is τῷ Πνεύματι tō Pneumati - with the article the - "the Spirit." Hahn, Tittman, and Griesbach omit the article, and then the reading is, "quickened in spirit;" and thus the reading corresponds with the former expression, "in flesh" (σαρκὶ sarki,) where the article also is lacking. The word "spirit," so far as the mere use of the word is concerned, might refer to his own soul, to his divine nature, or to the Holy Spirit. It is evident:

(1) that it does not refer to his own soul, for:

(a) as we have seen, the reference in the former clause is to his human nature, including all that pertained to him as a man, body and soul;

(b) there was no power in his own spirit, regarded as that pertaining to his human nature, to raise him up from the dead, any more than there is such a power in any other human soul. That power does not belong to a human soul in any of its relations or conditions.

(2) it seems equally clear that this does not refer to the Holy Spirit, or the Third Person of the Trinity, for it may be doubted whether the work of raising the dead is anywhere ascribed to that Spirit. His special province is to enlighten, awaken, convict, convert, and sanctify the soul; to apply the work of redemption to the hearts of people, and to lead them to God. This influence is moral, not physical; an influence accompanying the truth, not the exertion of mere physical power.

(3) it remains, then, that the reference is to his own divine nature - a nature by which he was restored to life after he was crucified; to the Son of God, regarded as the Second Person of the Trinity. This appears, not only from the facts above stated, but also:

(a) from the connection, It is stated that it was in or by this spirit that he went and preached in the days of Noah. But it was not his spirit as a man that did this, for his human soul had then no existence. Yet it seems that he did this personally or directly, and not by the influences of the Holy Spirit, for it is said that "he went and preached." The reference, therefore, cannot be to the Holy Spirit, and the fair conclusion is that it refers to his divine nature.


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## Michael F. Gray (Oct 18, 2012)

Consider Romans 8:8-11
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin ; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you."


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## Ronnie T (Oct 18, 2012)

And these:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12
 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

*And especially this one:*

1 Corinthians 15:45
 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2012)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Consider Romans 8:8-11
> "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
> But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
> And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin ; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
> But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you."



I like that. I need the "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ" in me.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 18, 2012)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Consider Romans 8:8-11
> "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
> But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
> And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin ; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
> But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you."



Thanks for this bros. It has just struck me how beautiful these few words are.


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## barryl (Oct 19, 2012)

One of the clearest examples that I know of. John 11:35 KJV 1611 AV


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## StriperAddict (Oct 22, 2012)

barryl said:


> One of the clearest examples that I know of. John 11:35 KJV 1611 AV


 
Indeed.

And the agony of our Lord at the Garden of Gethsemane.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 22, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Indeed.
> 
> And the agony of our Lord at the Garden of Gethsemane.



I agree that he did. And yet he still needed the Spirit of God to dwell in him as we do too. Amazing isn't it? Amen to the power of the Spirit of God.

Romans 8: 8-11


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 23, 2012)

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
That Timothy verse lets us know Jesus has a human soul as Jesus forever intercedes as the High Priest. 

Hebrews 6:20 where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through him. He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf.

Jesus' ascension into Heaven in a glorified body of flesh & bones also lets us know that he has a human soul. This in no way takes anything away from him being divine. Just as he was on earth.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 23, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
> That Timothy verse lets us know Jesus has a human soul as Jesus forever intercedes as the High Priest.
> 
> Hebrews 6:20 where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
> ...



When I read that I began to wonder how much more is there to know, that I don't know?
And just how wrong do I have it now.  This is such an enormous subject.  
In a way, it's a subject that doesn't even make sense to me.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 23, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> When I read that I began to wonder how much more is there to know, that I don't know?
> And just how wrong do I have it now.  This is such an enormous subject.
> In a way, it's a subject that doesn't even make sense to me.



Me too, and probably isn't required reading so to speak.
In looking at Jesus as a mediator, i'm thinking he took this role after he sacrificed his life. While Jesus lived on the Earth, Christians were under the Old Covenant. 

Reading Romans 8:34 lets us know Jesus intercedes for us.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 23, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Me too, and probably isn't required reading so to speak.
> In looking at Jesus as a mediator, i'm thinking he took this role after he sacrificed his life. While Jesus lived on the Earth, Christians were under the Old Covenant.
> 
> Reading Romans 8:34 lets us know Jesus intercedes for us.
> Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


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## hawglips (Nov 14, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> So when Jesus died it was his spirit that went to preach?



Yes.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 14, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger  
So when Jesus died it was his spirit that went to preach? (end quote)

Yes. 

I have a few questions. What happened to the Holy Spirit that dwelled in Jesus when he died? What happens to the Holy Spirit that dwells in us when we die?
Why did Jesus need the Holy Spirit dwelling in him to start with?
__________________


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 14, 2012)

I can find verses where Jesus depended on the Holy Spirit for miracles and ministry but I don't know why he needed the Holy Spirit.

 Living By The Holy Spirit. Other scriptures reveal that Jesus depended on the power of the Holy Spirit in His ministry The table below shows that Jesus did miracle after miracle by the power of the Spirit. He even died and returned to life by the power of the Spirit.

Holy Spirit's Ministry in Jesus
Passage
Born by the Holy Spirit
Matt. 1:18

Holy Spirit descended on Jesus at His baptism.
Luke 3:22

Led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted
Luke 4:1

Returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit
Luke 4:14

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon ME . . ."
Luke 4:18

He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit.
Luke 10:21

Ministry performed in the power of the Spirit
Acts 2:22

Anointed with the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:38

Offered Himself - died - by the Spirit.
Heb. 9:14

Return to life by the Holy Spirit
1 Pet. 3:18

He depended on the Holy Spirit to perform His ministry. Just as Jesus did in His humanity, God expects us to depend on the Holy Spirit for the power in our ministry.


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## hawglips (Nov 16, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I have a few questions. What happened to the Holy Spirit that dwelled in Jesus when he died? What happens to the Holy Spirit that dwells in us when we die?
> Why did Jesus need the Holy Spirit dwelling in him to start with?



I like to think of the Holy Spirit sort of like the sun.   Not really in us in his entirety but we feel and are influenced by him.  And we're able to tune into Him.  And the Holy Spirit is the way God reveals things to us etc.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 16, 2012)

hawglips said:


> I like to think of the Holy Spirit sort of like the sun.   Not really in us in his entirety but we feel and are influenced by him.  And we're able to tune into Him.  And the Holy Spirit is the way God reveals things to us etc.



I've felt the power of the Holy Spirit and as much as I hate to say it, I have tuned him out on occasion and every time I have done that, i've regretted not using his guidance.

Any thoughts on why Jesus needed the Holy Spirit?


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## hawglips (Nov 17, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Any thoughts on why Jesus needed the Holy Spirit?



Maybe He needed it due to his mortal flesh.   And because He sought at all times to do the will of the Father.  And to overcome temptations of the flesh.  And to do the great miracles for the people.  

I think that part of the power of His mortal life is that he actually put Himself subject to all the earthly negatives that we encounter, and overcame them all -- perfectly.  That example gives us strength and lets us know He does understand what we are going through.  And it makes His atoning sacrifice complete.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 17, 2012)

hawglips said:


> Maybe He needed it due to his mortal flesh.   And because He sought at all times to do the will of the Father.  And to overcome temptations of the flesh.  And to do the great miracles for the people.
> 
> I think that part of the power of His mortal life is that he actually put Himself subject to all the earthly negatives that we encounter, and overcame them all -- perfectly.  That example gives us strength and lets us know He does understand what we are going through.  And it makes His atoning sacrifice complete.



Maybe he needed the Holy Spirit to help learn obedience.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 17, 2012)

Jesus had to put his diety/divinity to the wayside to be more like a man and to experience things as man. Most definitely we can identify with Jesus going through what we do. It's kinda hard for a divine person to do this but Jesus did it. When he put his divinity to the side, he was a man that needed the help of His Father, God, The Holy Spirit, or any other way one cares to explain it. Jesus was the first to say who was helping him perform miracles and the power of the Holy Spirit. He never quit giving his Father in Heaven all the credit. Jesus had a human soul. When Jesus died his human soul went to preach. Jesus needed the Holy Spirit just as we do. 
What about when we die or when Jesus died? Is the Holy Spirit's guidance over? I would think so.


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## Israel (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't know why we say Jesus "needed" the Holy Spirit...except it be to show Jesus had need...as we do. Which is OK, I don't speak to reprove.
But perhaps it is from our point of view that somehow need is something we still feel points toward "incompleteness"...and we rejoice to know we are not alone in our seeking to be whole in every way?

Do we reason Jesus thinking such: "If I want to fulfill my calling amongst men, then I am going to "need" the Holy Spirit"?

Or is it more this "A body thou hast prepared for me..." And in the recognition of the need in such an excursion in a body, that need is found to be rightly submitted...not for a man to try to fill of "himself" or of other men...or the strength of soul...but to the one who is the Creator?
It becomes a chicken and egg sort of reasoning, I know, and therein my weakness shows. But...I see Jesus, not ashamed of being for us a created man, like us, to show being a creature "of God"...has no shame in it at all. (For there is a man who is manipulated by being convinced to feel "lack"...and puts forth his own hand to try to relieve himself of that by his own means...and then was found ashamed of his own efforts to that end)

I suppose we can't even "see" our neediness apart from the Holy Spirit...and to continue in (that) truth...is to continually walk in that...unashamed...not so much to do anything...but simply to be how we are created to be.

Of course, in this world...we come up against the many delusions of "self" sufficiency...again...and are tempted to "put forth our own hand" to show something that is not the truth.

Specifically, I am reminded of the man who built many barns for all his profits...and had an "inner" dialog: "I will say to my SOUL, SOUL, thou hast many goods, for many days...take thine ease..."

Something there is there that "tells" the soul something...the soul that knows its neediness...but has been in complicity with something to "lay up" stuff as a defense against this obvious need.
We may need to ask...what is the "I" there that addresses the soul, and lies to it...telling it it has many days of relaxation ahead because of the great amount of stuff it has acquired? 
For we know the truth of God is revealed in that passage also...and we discover that soul was deceived...it didn't have the many days it was told it had.
So may we be lied to...even by an "I" that is seeking to convince the soul...it has anything more than today to present itself before God...as either whole...or not.

The Holy Spirit convicts us of this very real and precious truth...God is present...in every sense of that word.
Jesus simply walked in that, and remains...even in a world that thought/hoped/endeavored/believed...that by removing him...that "presence" that condemned the prince of that world...would be removed.
Little did he know...(that prince and his minions)...that by his attempts to remove...that the very Holy Spirit that was so convicting and spoke of his judgment...would now be irreversibly, irresistibly...now be released upon all of creation in a flood...through the name he despised...and sought to stamp out.

It is expedient that I go away...(and so it is with each of us...expedient that "I" go away)

I am crucified with Christ...nevertheless I live...yet...not "I"...


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## StriperAddict (Nov 19, 2012)

Israel said:


> I don't know why we say Jesus "needed" the Holy Spirit...except it be to show Jesus had need...as we do. Which is OK, I don't speak to reprove.
> But perhaps it is from our point of view that somehow need is something we still feel points toward "incompleteness"...and we rejoice to know we are not alone in our seeking to be whole in every way?
> 
> Do we reason Jesus thinking such: "If I want to fulfill my calling amongst men, then I am going to "need" the Holy Spirit"?
> ...


 
Bless you brother. This one worth forwarding to my e list, unashamedly.


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## hawglips (Nov 20, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Maybe he needed the Holy Spirit to help learn obedience.
> Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;



Maybe so. 

And that he also prayed in Gethsemane, "...Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done"; this shows that though He was ready to go through with it, He dreaded what was coming.  I imagine that He prayed for strength to help him through it.  And that there was an angel sent to give him support through that ordeal of suffering for our sins in the garden, shows that he needed the support.  

And during the ordeal of fasting for 40 days and nights and being tempted of Satan during this time, which resulted in Him obtaining strength and "the power of the Spirit" prior to beginning His ministry. 

And that while on the cross He cried out, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me".  Not only was this a proclamation that His work in a mortal body was done (Psalms 22), but it also showed that He was pained by a perceived lack of support from the Father at that time.  

I think all these show that even though He was God, he had to deal with the weaknesses of the flesh while living on earth with a mortal body, and apparently needed the Spirit and the Father's support to do it.   

It is interesting to contemplate that though he was the Creator of the world, yet He was given support from His Father and the Holy Ghost, and angels, while walking among us in mortality.

But regarding your original question, did He have a "human soul?"  I don't see it that way.  He had the soul of Jehovah, but that soul was inside a mortal, human body....


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 20, 2012)

If Jesus didn't have a human soul, how was he sacrificed for us humans who have bodies & souls? How did Jesus have the free will to pray, feel pain, weep, feel his Father had forsaken him, ask his Father to forgive them for they know not what they do, without a human soul? If Jesus didn't have a human soul he wouldn't need the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. 
How did he go and preach after he died and have the Spirit of God raise him from the dead?
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Most Christians view Jesus as 100% God & 100% man. Man has his own mind, body, & spirit. Christians also have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them just as Jesus did.


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