# Archaeological find in Jerusalem ‘proves Bible passage is historically true’



## j_seph (Aug 4, 2017)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/archaeol...ible-passage-historically-true-123315016.html


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## bullethead (Aug 4, 2017)

Some real places, some real people and some real events are certainly included in the Bible. I do not think that anyone in here has ever said differently.
Star Trek talked about Earth. Does that make the rest of Star Trek equally true?
Many old religious writings mention people places and events.
What exactly are you posting this for?


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## centerpin fan (Aug 4, 2017)

My crystal ball foretells a collective yawn from our AA friends.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 4, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Some real places, some real people and some real events are certainly included in the Bible. I do not think that anyone in here has ever said differently.
> Star Trek talked about Earth. Does that make the rest of Star Trek equally true?
> Many old religious writings mention people places and events.
> What exactly are you posting this for?


I'm fully expecting the Christians to deny this article because "the process of dating things is inaccurate and just a wild guess".
But I wont hold my breath


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## WaltL1 (Aug 4, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> My crystal ball foretells a collective yawn from our AA friends.


When they find a skeleton of a donkey with the physical capabilities of talking or maybe a wooden staff with a snake skeleton, I promise then we will sit up and take notice


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## bullethead (Aug 4, 2017)

I heard sand was found in the desert too.


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## centerpin fan (Aug 4, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Star Trek talked about Earth. Does that make the rest of Star Trek equally true?



Don't knock the Trek.  If it weren't for Picard, you'd be a Borg drone right now.


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## bullethead (Aug 4, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Don't knock the Trek.  If it weren't for Picard, you'd be a Borg drone right now.



He is my Savior, apparently.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 5, 2017)

j_seph said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/archaeol...ible-passage-historically-true-123315016.html


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/scien...s-early-days/ar-AApsjf1?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp


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## atlashunter (Aug 6, 2017)

j_seph said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/archaeol...ible-passage-historically-true-123315016.html



Ok. And we should conclude what based on this?


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## WaltL1 (Aug 6, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Ok. And we should conclude what based on this?


I think we can conclude j_seph is a drive by poster.
Throw it out there and run to avoid any questions.


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## j_seph (Aug 7, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think we can conclude j_seph is a drive by poster.
> Throw it out there and run to avoid any questions.


Actually J_seph doesn't spend his days on GON. Church youth rally Friday, Church on Sunday. Sorry I cannot make y'all a priority. Can only show ya what I see, tell ya about what I have seen and pray maybe one day something one of us peculiar Christians say will put enough weight on that light cord that it turns on a little bit.


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## atlashunter (Aug 7, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Actually J_seph doesn't spend his days on GON. Church youth rally Friday, Church on Sunday. Sorry I cannot make y'all a priority. Can only show ya what I see, tell ya about what I have seen and pray maybe one day something one of us peculiar Christians say will put enough weight on that light cord that it turns on a little bit.



My question remains.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 7, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Actually J_seph doesn't spend his days on GON. Church youth rally Friday, Church on Sunday. Sorry I cannot make y'all a priority. Can only show ya what I see, tell ya about what I have seen and pray maybe one day something one of us peculiar Christians say will put enough weight on that light cord that it turns on a little bit.


Putting youth and church before us????
Come on man you need to get your priorities straight 
And my hat is off to you for spending time with the youngins'. That is a very honorable endeavor. I just hope you are doing it for their sake and not the church's sake.


> maybe one day something one of us peculiar Christians say will put enough weight on that light cord that it turns on a little bit


j_seph, nearly every single one of us here was a Christian/believer.
We didn't leave Christianity just because we felt like doing something different one day. You probably don't have a clue the difficulty involved, the people you hurt, maybe even the price we will have to one day pay, that kind of decision involves.
The light that got turned on for us went in the opposite direction. There isn't a thing you are going to say, at least not to me, that's going to get me/us to go back.
If that is your intention, I'm sorry to say you are probably wasting your time.
If the Christian God exists though I'm sure He could accomplish that in a second. So far He's a no show.


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## j_seph (Aug 8, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Putting youth and church before us????
> Come on man you need to get your priorities straight
> And my hat is off to you for spending time with the youngins'. That is a very honorable endeavor. I just hope you are doing it for their sake and not the church's sake.
> 
> ...


If you are still interested in seeking out the truth. Watch some of these, if you are on FB look Dave up. As well the museum mentioned in this website will also be in Hoschton Ga Sep 16 through the weekend.
http://truthministries.tv/speaking-topics


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## WaltL1 (Aug 8, 2017)

j_seph said:


> If you are still interested in seeking out the truth. Watch some of these, if you are on FB look Dave up. As well the museum mentioned in this website will also be in Hoschton Ga Sep 16 through the weekend.
> http://truthministries.tv/speaking-topics





> If you are still interested in seeking out the truth.


Not sure you are getting it.
Seeking out the truth is exactly what I did. That search lead me away from, not to, Christianity.
Obviously your mileage may vary.
And I checked out your link about the traveling museum.
Since I live in Hoschton I will probably check it out.
However I can already tell that by the "marketing" of the various displays its only going to cement what I already believe to be the "truth/not the truth".


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## atlashunter (Aug 8, 2017)

This has to be one of my favorites. 



> Is it possible that man and dinosaurs once walked planet earth together, at the same time? Does the Bible mentiion dinosaurs? Find out incredible scientific evidences for the fact that dinosaurs were here very recently. Examine findings in archaeology and paleantology that support the existence of man and dinosaur living together. See artwork from people that couldn't have known what dinosaurs looked like, and hear stories from people like Marco Polo, who document "Dragons" throughout the world!


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 8, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> You probably don't have a clue the difficulty involved, the people you hurt, maybe even the price we will have to one day pay, that kind of decision involves.



That move for me made me incredibly uncomfortable around my parents. I don't know what it really did to them but I am sure they were devastated. My sister. I wasn't happy to do that to them. Then the looks I'd get if people around me found out. 

The guys here made my re-conversion much easier than believers made my de-conversion. Thanks for accepting me.


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## j_seph (Aug 8, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Not sure you are getting it.
> Seeking out the truth is exactly what I did. That search lead me away from, not to, Christianity.
> Obviously your mileage may vary.
> And I checked out your link about the traveling museum.
> ...





atlashunter said:


> This has to be one of my favorites.


Walt I pray you get something out of it if you make it to the exhibit. He obviously found something as did other non believers have.

Atlas you have probably already read
Job 40:15 - 40:24
Isaiah 27:1
Job 41:1-34
Genesis 1:24-31


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## atlashunter (Aug 8, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Walt I pray you get something out of it if you make it to the exhibit. He obviously found something as did other non believers have.
> 
> Atlas you have probably already read
> Job 40:15 - 40:24
> ...



I'm very familiar with creationist arguments. It's what I was taught growing up. My father is still a young earth creationist. Scripture is irrelevant. You could have a scripture that says Jesus got around on a saddled dinosaur like the one at the creationist museum. That doesn't change the fossil record.


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## ambush80 (Aug 8, 2017)

TripleXBullies said:


> That move for me made me incredibly uncomfortable around my parents. I don't know what it really did to them but I am sure they were devastated. My sister. I wasn't happy to do that to them. Then the looks I'd get if people around me found out.
> 
> The guys here made my re-conversion much easier than believers made my de-conversion. Thanks for accepting me.




I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted.  There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief.  I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs.  You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking.  Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.  

I find your path interesting.  I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted.  There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief.  I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs.  You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking.  Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.
> 
> I find your path interesting.  I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).



That cumbersome dichotomy in a nutshell. 

Why can't we all get along? 

You believe what you want to believe, I believe what I want to believe and we'll share the same brand of adult beverage in discussions about them, without one attempting to disprove the other. 

Nobody gets out of this journey alive.


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## ambush80 (Aug 8, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That cumbersome dichotomy in a nutshell.
> 
> Why can't we all get along?
> 
> ...



Cheers to that.

We  can absolutely all get along and we do, even when we disagree.  The only time this stuff really matters is when it affects "The Commons" but we rarely talk about that stuff here which I find strange.  I look at these discussions as a way to test my reasoning ability, "Iron sharpening Iron".  I'm also very interested in the psychology of faith.  I want to know what mental switches get thrown that lead someone to have a faith based belief.  I use the same lines of questioning with all deists (or Pantheists, or Wiccans, or crystal healing believers).     


The discussion of doctrine or text is really interesting as well because it's often where reasoning and faith intersect and that's a trainwreck that I can't look away from.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> The discussion of doctrine or text is really interesting as well because it's often where reasoning and faith intersect and that's a trainwreck that I can't look away from.



I'm getting too old to marvel at train wrecks. They are little more than tilting at windmills. 

Chronological account
Moral foundation (before and after)
Cultural beliefs (before and after) 
Paranormal experience (loosely interpreted for this application)

All of these apply to a faith based belief where Christianity is concerned. Splitting hairs over doctrine is where the "my plank is bigger than yours" schism occurs. 

I for one would be appreciative of being afforded access and interlinear translations to ALL of the books of the original Biblical text. Not just the ones some group of angry tyrants decided would be good for me. But that in no way alters my faith based on my life's experiences. 

Life is too short to worry about the big things. It is the little things that matter. Once you get far enough along in your journey and look back, you realize the little things were bigger than you thought at the time.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted.  There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief.  I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs.  You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking.  Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.
> 
> I find your path interesting.  I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).



You can ask me anything. I'm pretty sure I've heard it before - whether asked to me or someone else. Like I said it my other thread, things here are the same was they were 3 to 10 years before that. I'm also pretty sure I've asked myself all of those questions too. My answer to most of them is probably I don't know, though lol.


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## ambush80 (Aug 8, 2017)

TripleXBullies said:


> You can ask me anything. I'm pretty sure I've heard it before - whether asked to me or someone else. Like I said it my other thread, things here are the same was they were 3 to 10 years before that. I'm also pretty sure I've asked myself all of those questions too. My answer to most of them is probably I don't know, though lol.




Great!!!!

So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society?  If so, how do you feel about that now?


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## ambush80 (Aug 8, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I'm getting too old to marvel at train wrecks. They are little more than tilting at windmills.
> 
> Chronological account
> Moral foundation (before and after)
> ...



Those "life experiences" are the most interesting things to me.  Many people have similar life experiences and come out of them with different points of view.  How come?  That's what I like to examine.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Those "life experiences" are the most interesting things to me.  Many people have similar life experiences and come out of them with different points of view.  How come?  That's what I like to examine.



Because, Silly, we are all different. If we were all the same this website wouldn't even exist. 

Doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on, or what you believe is the creator of "us". Whether it be a natural scientific process or an interstellar being, both are beyond our ability to replicate the process from on an atomic scale or based on our knowledge. No matter how hard we try to understand it and justify our take on it. 

Those are big things. I don't worry about them.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 8, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Great!!!!
> 
> So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society?  If so, how do you feel about that now?



There may have been a time when I believe it was more vital to get rid of for other advancement. I still believe it CAN obstruct some advancement. Maybe sometimes it should and sometimes it shouldn't. Like cloning. I don't know that I could say it's good or bad that it's held that up in some way.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 8, 2017)

> > Originally Posted by ambush80
> > Great!!!!
> > So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society? If so, how do you feel about that now?
> 
> ...


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## ambush80 (Aug 9, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> > If I can jump in with my .02 cents.
> > I think maybe at one point it obstructed or slowed down advancement however I just don't think it has that kind of power/social impact any more.
> > I cant really think of any advancement that it is literally obstructing/stopping from a society standpoint.
> > Maybe it all depends on what one considers "advancement"?
> ...


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## WaltL1 (Aug 9, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Fetal stem cell research.


Is happening as we speak.


> Embryonic stem cells used for research develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro (in a laboratory). …





> Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal in the US. President Bush banned the use of federal funds to advance such research, but not private and state funding





> Embryonic stem cells are “starter cells” that can be coaxed into becoming any of the specialized cells of the body, meaning they are “pluripotent.” Embryonic stem cells are derived from eggs fertilized in the laboratory, not in a woman’s body.


And if religion had the ability to shut down embryonic stem cell search whether grown in a woman or a lab, science is ahead of that too -


> Induced-pluripotent stem cells are adult stem cells that have been genetically altered to behave like embryonic stem cells. At present, they serve a valuable role in research and drug testing


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 9, 2017)

I agree Walt. Its influence to slow things like that is diminishing.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 9, 2017)

TripleXBullies said:


> I agree Walt. Its influence to slow things like that is diminishing.


That's my opinion too.
Religion may be able to throw up some speed bumps, but science just drives up on the curb and goes around them.

But yes, there was a time in the past when religion was absolutely a road block that science wasn't able to get around.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 9, 2017)

TripleX it dawned on me that you could probably make the case that religion actually spawned new technology in science by forcing science to develop new technology etc to get around religion such as mentioned above by making adult cells act like embryonic stem cells.
See, a positive spin complete with an example to back it up. 

Making it hold up to questioning is up to you though.


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## ky55 (Aug 9, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> That's my opinion too.
> Religion may be able to throw up some speed bumps, but science just drives up on the curb and goes around them.
> 
> But yes, there was a time in the past when religion was absolutely a road block that science wasn't able to get around.



Seems like there have been a lot more advancements since the Church stopped burning heretics at the stake. 
Maybe it's just a coincidence.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 9, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Seems like there have been a lot more advancements since the Church stopped burning heretics at the stake.
> Maybe it's just a coincidence.


"Ive stumbled upon the cure for cancer but I'm not saying nothing to nobody as I have no desire to be a human hot dog".


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 9, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> "Ive stumbled upon the cure for cancer but I'm not saying nothing to nobody as I have no desire to be a human hot dog".



Ya ever wonder what the Vatican has locked away?


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## WaltL1 (Aug 9, 2017)

TripleXBullies said:


> Ya ever wonder what the Vatican has locked away?


Piles and piles of cash previously owned by hard working Christians, tons of gold, seriously valuable art..............

But yes the stuff we don't know about would probably shock most folks.
Certainly would be interesting. 
Probably the stuff that would be really interesting got burned, destroyed etc but you never know.....


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