# Quail Feeding???



## coveyrise90 (Sep 8, 2011)

Guys,

This is a question for those who maintain established coveys of quail on your land. 

How do you feed? Broadcasting? Feeder? Food Plots? All three?

I am going to be releasing 500 birds into 500 acres of very high quality habitat (longleaf/wiregrass woods). There will be 20 coveys with 25 birds in each covey. We will also supplement the coveys as needed through the season. But I am debating on which method to feed with. With current grain prices being through the roof, cost is a big factor. 

I would think that feeders would be the most cost effective because less grain is wasted plus they wouldn't have to be filled very often which would save on fuel costs. I would also think it would be better than food plots because food plots are may not always produce a good seed crop. 

But this all just me thinking. I'd like to hear from you guys who have actually done it. I want to achieve the goal of maintaining coveys without breaking the bank.

Please share the way you've done it and the costs involved.

Thanks!

Adam


----------



## coveyrise90 (Sep 8, 2011)

Here's a simple (and affordable) feeder I found... what do yall think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsrMJ6Vk5UA

Adam


----------



## cowdonium (Sep 8, 2011)

*supplemental feeding research*

A study on the success of supplemental feeding was released not too long ago. the study focused on a plantation located in the red hill region, and while now i can't seem to find he  actual link to the study, the following site provides a good overview and summary of the report:
http://www.talltimbers.org/gb-suppfeed.html

good luck!


----------



## Setter Jax (Sep 9, 2011)

I've been looking into the idea of doing something similar on a 40 acre lot and adding a couple of Johnny houses.  Just  haven't had the time or money.  But found this website and information concerning early released birds and coming up with a quail land management program.  Hope this info helps.

http://www.qualitywildlife.com/covey-base-camp-system.aspx

The site also has a quail information library with a lot of good info.
Boots and Briars, Covey Base Camp.

http://bootsandbriars.com


I haven’t personally participated in an early release program.  My father a few years ago contacted the local Chapter of Quail Forever, and the DNR biologist and set up a land management program for quail and pheasant cover. Improved habitat and the right kind of native seed plants and the numbers greatly improved.  I have a cousin in Kentucky that did the same thing.  If you build it they will come. The only problem with that is they want  you to set aside your land for 5 years and not hunt it.


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 9, 2011)

On the lands that I work on and manage, both broadcast feeding and feeders are used. Very little of the feeding is done by foodplots because of growing seasons like the one we had this year.  Its cheaper to just buy the feed and put it out.  On the 1500 acre plantation, 200 coveysites have been established and mapped and 20 bird coveys are released at each site 3 times per year.  They have established feed routes, also mapped, and a specially designed feed wagon is used to automatically drop grain sorghum at each covey site via an electronic drop gate.  Feeding is done once a week. This method has been used for the last 12 years and the bird hunting is absolutely unbelievable. An aerial photo of feed routes and covey sites is attached.

On another area that I manage, I use feeders, both simple bucket feeders as well as the covey base camp feeders sold by Jim Evan.  The feeders waste less food and require fewer trips to feed.  I do not have the setup like at the Plantation, nor the manpower to feed each week by broadcast, however if I could afford to do either, I feel that the broadcast is actually the best method as it is more like natural feeding for the birds and the sites can be varied as per food drop sites.

Another key element that has made the release successful and IMO is absolutely necessary is a call back bird at each covey site.  When the birds you put out flush for the first time, they have no idea how to get back to where the food is without the call back bird (male).  Electronic calls can be used, but I prefer the live bird as he doesn't call at specific times, and if the bird see or senses predators, he'll shut up and not call. I have on numerous occasions watched late in the afternoon, coveys flying back to the covey site when the call back birds starts calling.

Extremely heavy escape cover is also necessary at each release site.
Send me a PM if I can be of more assistance.  The methods I use work...no brag just fact.
Steve Pickard


----------



## Setter Jax (Sep 9, 2011)

Steve,

Great info, now how does one go about getting an invite to your quail paradise????

SJ


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 9, 2011)

Up until now, the 1500 ac. plantation was only for the owner, his family and friends.  I get to work my dogs out there, but no shooting, which is fine with me.  They have been thinking about having a limited number of guided hunts this year, but I don't know for sure if its going to happen.  The price will be expensive, but for the amounts of birds you will see in a day, it will be worth the price.  Typical day for the owner is finding 20-30 coveys, shooting only covey rise and killing an average of 50 birds.  They hunt off horseback and as far as I'm concerned its the closest thing to  "old school" wild birds you will find in East Central Georgia. My best out there in 4 hours was 22 coveys with Bullet and Ammo.


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 9, 2011)

StevePickard said:


> On the lands that I work on and manage, both broadcast feeding and feeders are used. Very little of the feeding is done by foodplots because of growing seasons like the one we had this year.  Its cheaper to just buy the feed and put it out.  On the 1500 acre plantation, 200 coveysites have been established and mapped and 20 bird coveys are released at each site 3 times per year.  They have established feed routes, also mapped, and a specially designed feed wagon is used to automatically drop grain sorghum at each covey site via an electronic drop gate.  Feeding is done once a week. This method has been used for the last 12 years and the bird hunting is absolutely unbelievable. An aerial photo of feed routes and covey sites is attached.
> 
> On another area that I manage, I use feeders, both simple bucket feeders as well as the covey base camp feeders sold by Jim Evan.  The feeders waste less food and require fewer trips to feed.  I do not have the setup like at the Plantation, nor the manpower to feed each week by broadcast, however if I could afford to do either, I feel that the broadcast is actually the best method as it is more like natural feeding for the birds and the sites can be varied as per food drop sites.
> 
> ...


   I am a little confused, does this mean you release 4,000 birds a year or 12,000 birds? 200 sites times 20= 4,000 times three times a year=12,000.


----------



## Sam H (Sep 10, 2011)

Adam....Just a thought....Remember what Ted DeVoss told me about pulling the feeders after your coveys get established (about a month) because of predators learning the location(mainly hawks,owls)...after you pull the feeders , broadcast about every 7-10days?....
Dr Rollins,whom I have ultimate respect for ,  didn't mention hawks(only briefly bobcats)?....So , now I have differant opinons from two guys(I highly value thier knowledge) who do this for a living for many years....DANG.......


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 10, 2011)

The plantation releases 10,000-12,000 birds per year.


----------



## Setter Jax (Sep 10, 2011)

Sam H said:


> Adam....Just a thought....Remember what Ted DeVoss told me about pulling the feeders after your coveys get established (about a month) because of predators learning the location(mainly hawks,owls)...after you pull the feeders , broadcast about every 7-10days?....
> Dr Rollins,whom I have ultimate respect for ,  didn't mention hawks(only briefly bobcats)?....So , now I have differant opinons from two guys(I highly value thier knowledge) who do this for a living for many years....DANG.......



What if you changed the location of the feeders every 10 days?  I have access to a 60 acre property that has wild birds but I was thinking about adding Johnny houses to as well. Property has two ponds, pine and other good cover.

SJ


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 10, 2011)

I think that moving the feeders a lot would help on predation a little, but it probably would become too time consuming.  I feel that I do loose some birds to mainly flying predators, but its not enough to warrant me moving my feeders and call back birds.  This is my 4th year on my smaller tract, and their 12th year at the big plantation as per leaving the sites at the same place throughout the season. Its been very successful at the plantation and my smaller tract, so I'm not worrying about moving my covey sites unless I start seeing heavier predation at a particular covey site.
 The thing that I would concentrate on more than worrying about moving the feeders or feed broadcast site is the fact of placing the feed in as thick of escape cover as you can find, with plenty of surround escape cover nearby. You want an area that you will dread going into to put the feed out so as to provide as much deterrence to the predator as possible.  As per the 4 legged predators, you must plan on an extensive trapping program. They hunt just like your dogs do, by scent as well as sight, and if the birds are out there they will track them down no matter where they are if they are intent on eating them.  On smaller tracts like my small tract, and SJ on your 60 acre tract, you can only move the feed sites around so much. Finding areas of extremely thick cover for the covey site to me is more important than worrying about moving feeding sites throughout the season.


----------



## CAL (Sep 10, 2011)

StevePickard said:


> The plantation releases 10,000-12,000 birds per year.



Please don't misunderstand my comment but 10-12,000 birds released on 1500 acres?Man those birds probably are stepping on one another.How can he tell if he has predators anyway with releasing that many birds.Plus,10,000 birds @3.50 each is 35,000.00 too.All this sounds like a shooting paradise to me.I am trying to raise birds on 1200 acres but not like your owner.I feed once every 10 days with a spreader on a small 4x4 Kubota in the thickest cover I can go through.There are birds there but not like what you are doing for sure.


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 10, 2011)

The numbers are true.  According to the owner, the birds are the cheapest part of the equation.  I'm not even going to quote the number that they tell me they spend total on the plantation per year cause you probably would not believe me, but there is the manager, 2 full time employees, their houses, the owners house for when he comes down, the guest house, the new huge horse barn, 30-40 bird dogs, 10-12 horses, numerous tractors and equipment, mowing, control burning....the list goes on and on. Its definitely more than a full time operation, and its just for family! The owner wants bird...he's got birds!  Its not uncommon for 2 of the coveys to get together and you have 30-40 bird covey flush. Stocking starts in October, again about late November or early December, then in February.  Plenty of birds for owner and predator! If he can afford it, why not? The owner hunted over 50 days last season and during Christmas the last 2 years they have hunted for over 14 days straight!  Obviously they love it.
I help with the bird put out, do aerial photography and mapping and anything else they want for the opportunity of working my dogs there from time to time.  I follow the same guidelines on my smaller tracts that I manage as on the plantation and the results are very similar.  Its just not quite as expensive when doing smaller size tracts. I guess I'm patterning what I do after a place that spares no expenses whatsoever...


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 10, 2011)

StevePickard said:


> The plantation releases 10,000-12,000 birds per year.



   Steve,

     8 birds per acre is an all time record. I have never heard of this many birds put on anyones property. Must be some chicken house birds.


----------



## CAL (Sep 10, 2011)

Sounds like some more kind of operation Steve.I  was not finding fault with my post but just commenting is all.


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 10, 2011)

coveyrise90 said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is a question for those who maintain established coveys of quail on your land.
> 
> ...



  Adam,

  Feeders will be the most efficient way to feed the birds. Many people have no idea how to use feeders and do more harm using them than not. The same goes for spreading feed, some people still feed roads which has always been ignorant to me. I always paint the feeders with camo paint and put them in very heavy cover. Make sure you buy your birds from a good grower that raises their birds outside with a good cover crop grown in them. Never buy chicken house birds for an early release project. Michael Jordan did'nt learn to dribble a basketball sitting in the dark in a closet. Quail learn nothing about survival living in a darked out chicken house. Maybe you could talk the grower into putting the same kind of feeders into their pens a few weeks before the release date to get the birds aclimated to the feeders. Also remember you will need some kind of waterer also for the first week or so. 
     Tall Timbers research has shown that only 5% of spread feed is actually utilized by Quail the other 95% is either wasted or eaten by song birds and other animals. At 1 to 3 bushels an acre spreading feed could add up quickly.


----------



## coveyrise90 (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the comments guys. I am leaning toward feeders for now. With grain prices as high as they are, we want to make the feed stretch as much as possible. Plus, it would be nice only having to fill the feeders a few time during a season.... rather than every 10-14 days for broadcasting. Also, we don't plan to feed all year (as of right now at least)... more than likely it will just be from Oct-Mar.


David, know of any good birds farms around here? The most common place around here to get birds is a place in Enterprise where the birds are raised in chicken houses.

Adam


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 10, 2011)

Only birds they use are from Quail Valley, NC.  They are by far the best birds I have ever seen. The manager could get birds from anywhere he wants but will only buy from Quail Valley. All pen raised birds are not created equal!  Quail Valley now has a facility near Albany, Ga., with the birds still being hatched in NC and sent down to Albany.  I'm not sure where your tract is located, but they deliver so they may be furnishing some plantations in your area.  They deliver all the way from NC and Albany to the plantation in Millen. Send me a PM and I can get you their contact info.
Steve


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 10, 2011)

Adam,
   Mrs. Gail Weaver raises birds outdoors the old way. She is in Moultrie ga.                                                           If you want to buy birds from a chicken house grower you will need around 8 birds an acre like Steve said. That way you will have 1 bird an acre by hunting season if you are lucky.The birds are stupid when they leave the chicken houses. Never seen water or the daylight. I have used their birds before and will never again. They are cheaper than most peoples birds but you get what you pay for. Stay away from these ignorant birds.


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 11, 2011)

Coveyrise, 
If you've used Quail Valley birds specifically, you are entitled to your opinion.  If you haven't used then specifically, don't knock them until you have tried them.  The plantation manager realizes that he overstocks, but he is paid to do what the owner wants done, and that is what he want.  I have helped stock on about 70% of the stockings in the last 3 years.  We know we are overstocking by the amount of flushes we see in the later stockings.  We have observed numerous flushes at covey sites even on the initial stockings as well.
I am a supporter of Quail Valley bird because before I met the plantation manager, I was using birds just like you were describing from one of Jim Evan's sources.  Jim had worked with me in initially setting up my first early release site.  The stocking were unsuccessful and we could hardly find any of the birds after release.  I tried from several other sources with little success also.  After meeting the plantation manager, I began using Quail Valley birds and call back birds like he did and immediately my stocking became successful.  I cannot afford to do full stockings 3 times per year and typically I stock in October and if I realize that I shoot down a covey to too few birds, I add birds to that covey, typically when the plantation is doing their later stocking because that is when I can get QV birds.  I have, for 3 years, kept good numbers of birds till March. When you have observed Quail Valley birds as much as I have, I will accept your opinion, but they are far from stupid birds.  I'm sure you have birds that work good for you.  If so, those are the birds you should use.  As for me, QV birds are the only ones that have worked for me from the birds around my area available to me and they have made my stockings sucessful.  If I could afford to overstock so I'd have more than enough birds, I would, but I don't, but by using their birds, I have turned from ready to scratch a project, to one that has been very successful on my smaller operation.  I've not seen how your birds react and survive and I'm not knocking your birds by any means. There are obviously good birds from many sources out there.


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 11, 2011)

coveyrise90 said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is a question for those who maintain established coveys of quail on your land.
> 
> ...



 Adam,

   I would cut the covey size down to 20 birds per site if it was me. If you have the space to put more release sites on your property. Personally I would'nt worry about how many birds to release until you do a survey and see what  your wild bird population is like. No reason in crowding out your wild birds with pen raised birds. I would rather see 2 coveys of wild birds than 10 coveys of pen raised birds. Just me. Then again some guys like kissing their sister.  I will be working on a plantation outside of Montgomery this week and coming back thru Dothan friday evening. Give me a call.


----------



## coveyrise (Sep 11, 2011)

Steve, 

    I have tried their birds. And yes I am entititled to my opinion since I have tried them numerous years in a row. Never again. I like my birds with feathers on them. I am not singling out Quail Valleys birds but am against using chicken house birds for any early release project. What does any bird learn about survival in a darked out chicken house?  Has it ever had to endure a 2 inche rainfall at 2 a.m. in the morning? Has it ever learned what a Hawk looks like or that it will pop your head off if you fly towards it and not hide? Has it ever learned what good outdoor cover is there for? Of course if chicken house birds were so good you would not be releasing 8 birds an acre just to sustain a huntable population of birds.  I have nothing to sell in this matter just 25 years of experience and I am trying to steer Adam in the right direction. And I don't recieve a any commission for selling anyones birds either. If chicken house birds work for you then by all means stay with them, but 1 bird an acre releases has sustained excellent bird populations when purhased from the right grower for me in the past.
   By the way Jim talks highly of you .


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 11, 2011)

Coveyrise,
I don't receive any commission for selling anyone's birds either.  I have no obligation to anyone. The birds didn't work for you but they have worked for me far better than any I have tried from my area.  I've not seen the problem you have had, but that doesn't mean you didn't have the problems. If you have better birds in your area to choose from that's great, but in my area I have found none better.  I did a survival check on the plantation after the snow last year.  We stocked birds on the Wed. before the snow on Sunday and Monday.  On the following Thursday I took my dogs out to see what I could find.  Out of 25 covey sites checked, my dogs found 22 coveys at the covey sites.  It probably was my dogs fault that we didn't find the other 3 coveys, or maybe they didn't survive.  In any event, the birds survived well by my observation and flew excellent. I found no dead birds. I could give many more observations as how well the birds have adapted and learned to live in the wild very similar to wild birds but I'm already long-winded enough. Just like you, I base my statements on my personal observations and I don't try to shoot the breeze just to be talking.  Like you, I've been in forestry and wildlife management for many years, 32 years to be exact, with 25 years working as a private consultant. I'm not selling anything here in this post either. If I pipe in on a thread, I'm doing it to pass along what I have seen work as a professional manager. The plantation manager I'm speaking of has been in the quail management business longer than both of us, and managed one of the very large plantations in SWGA before being hired away to manage this plantation 12 years ago, and he's not selling anything here either.  I draw from his knowledge also and pass it along.  The high numbers of birds put out are what the owner wants and that's what the manager does. The owner's  only desire is to see just how many birds he can kill in a day. Period the end.  Quail management is not his concern...killing as many birds as he can is his concern.  When you have the money that he allots to his quail hunting (killing), you can do whatever you want. 
My stockings that I do are closer to 2 to 3 birds per acre and I'm satisfied with what I have on my personally managed areas, but if money was not an issue, I'd have a bird behind every bush also.  I'm sure from what I've read in your writings that you are very experienced in quail management.  I'm not trying to take anything away from your quail knowledge. We just have had different experiences and IMO, neither one of us is wrong, we just have had different results. I'm trying to pass along what someone is doing that obviously has unlimited resources to have as many quail available to him as possible.  I've never said that you have to do as this plantation does, but have used it as an example of what unlimited resources can do. 
Steve Pickard


----------



## StevePickard (Sep 12, 2011)

Guys...
my last essay on the subject.  
Forget where the birds come from, makes no difference to me as I'm not getting a commission from anyone as Coveyrise kind of suggested, but get what you feel are the best birds out there!  
I think most of you interested in early release have smaller tracts, 40 to 100 acres.  Coveyrise's methods work, my method works given the right habitat conditions. Again get the best birds you can find. 
  A lot of you that I have talked to personally on here are wanting an area to work dogs in with something other that planted birds.  If you can afford it and have the right conditions,  you can successfully maintain one 20 bird covey site every eight acres (ex. 5 covey sites on 40 acres) like I've been doing and the plantation has been doing or  if you have a very limited budget or not as much cover, etc. you can have 1 twenty bird covey site per 20 acres as Coveyrise recommends (1 bird per acre). Under the right conditions both will work.  However, if you are primarily wanting an area where you work your dog, which would you rather have...the possibility of finding 5 coveys on that 40 acres with your dogs,  or the possibility of find 2 coveys on that 40 acres?  I have 2 areas (app. 35 acres each, 4 covey sites in each area)set up personally that I use as my dog training areas as well as use of the plantation. I can consistently thru the season, go out and find 3 of the 4 coveys with my dogs when I go out.  Some days if scenting conditions are bad, the dogs may not find anything, but then again I have had days when I found every covey. Point is, through out the season, I know the birds are surviving. I do not work an area (quail folks like Coveyrise probably call these quail courses) more than 2 times per week. If I see a covey dwindling in numbers, I add birds at the time I can obtain them, which is when the plantation stocks during their 3 times per year.  Oh yeah...I shoot to miss out here mainly because this is my training field, and I don't have an unlimited budget, but when I need to work on retrieving, I kill birds. Do the math, if you kill every time you're out there you will have to replace more often.
Now, if your objective is to maintain birds so as to have a stocking rate more like how wild birds would populate, then maintain the 1 bird per acre, or twenty acres per covey.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Simple math...whichever fits your desires and your budget. Given the right conditions both work. 
I make my living as a consultant charging for the advice I give.  I'm sharing with you guys because I enjoy the forum.  If I pipe in with my 2 cents worth, I try to be able to back up what I say.  When I believe in something, I stand behind what I say.  If you don't believe it, just send Sam H a PM and ask him about his experience with me and his puppy.  
Happy hunting!
Steve Pickard


----------



## BFifer (Sep 12, 2011)

Steve, your feedback is appreciated. For novices like myself, it's nice to see some of the counterpoints between experienced guys like yourself and Coveyrise and it's definitely nice to see formulas that have been recipes for success in the past. Other's are absorbing this info and, I, for one, appreciate it as I'd like to do this with a small tract in the future.


----------



## coveyrise90 (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for all of the help guys. I really do appreciate it. This is my first time doing this and I'm to try skip as many of the usual first-timer mistakes as possible. I am very excited about this season and I can't wait to put this ideas to work! I'll keep yall updated!

Adam


----------

