# AR - Failure to feed properly!!!!  (more questions)



## hogdgz (Feb 23, 2010)

I was shooting my new Bushmaster today. At first it would shoot fine but then about every 5-10 rounds it would eject the fired caseing but jam while cycleing to the next round and dent the caseing on the new round, and it would be stuck halfway under the bolt and into the chamber. Then it got worse and did it between every round. And then sometimes it wouldnt even try to load the next round and I would have to rack the bolt to chamber another round. I just cleaned the gun before shooting it, and so i thought it might be the mag so i tried another one and same thing. Even tried some different ammo. I made shure the mags were locked in good but it seemed like this was the problem as the mags were acting kinda weird but they were in good and tight.

Dont know if this helps but I was shooting UMC FMJ ammo made by remington.

 Thanks for the help.


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## raw111 (Feb 23, 2010)

Sounds more like a gas problem. When you cleaned it, did you mop the gas tube? If not, give that a try. If you don't have the pipe cleaners to mop it, spray it out with an aerosol cleaner. 

While you have it broke down, look at the top of the bolt carrier, there are two allen head screws. Make sure they are staked in place. 

Here: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





If they are not staked, then stake them. 

Hope this helps.

rich


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## VHinch (Feb 23, 2010)

raw111 is right on, sounds like the gas keys have shot loose.  Bushmaster is infamous (along with several others) for not properly staking them.

I do disagree with the advice on cleaning though, there is no good reason to ever stick anything in the gas tube, it's just inviting a problem.


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## hogdgz (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks guys for the help.

My bolt carrier is staked but not as dramatic as the one in the pics, its more of a thin straight line on top of the screws and bolt.

I took it to my local gun shop and he pulled the bolt on it and cleaned the inside it was pretty dirty but I have only put about 150 rounds through it. I told him what the gun was doing and he thought the inside of the bolt being dirty was the problem and he cleaned it for me real well. Now I know how to take the bolt apart. 

One more question, do i need to oil the inside of the bolt or just a light coat on the outside.

I am new to all of this so thanks for all the help.


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## leoparddog (Feb 23, 2010)

If you go to AR15.com you can find a good discussion on what kind of lube goes on what parts.  

But yes, you do need to oil the inside of the bolt.  Not a lot, but it does need a coating.  On the AR here in the SE US, all the moving parts need some sort of lubrication.  Lubrication protocols in the "sandbox" may be different.


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## VHinch (Feb 23, 2010)

hogdgz said:


> Thanks guys for the help.
> 
> My bolt carrier is staked but not as dramatic as the one in the pics, its more of a thin straight line on top of the screws and bolt.



That's typical of Bushmaster staking.  It's not sufficient, and will shoot loose.  It needs to be staked correctly, where there is actually metal deformed into the screws, as shown in the pic.  I'd recommend torquing them to 55 in/lbs and restaking. It takes about 30 seconds to do it properly.



hogdgz said:


> I took it to my local gun shop and he pulled the bolt on it and cleaned the inside it was pretty dirty but I have only put about 150 rounds through it. I told him what the gun was doing and he thought the inside of the bolt being dirty was the problem and he cleaned it for me real well. Now I know how to take the bolt apart.



Anything's possible I suppose, but I doubt it.  I've put 1500 rounds through a weapon in a 3 day class on multiple occasions without cleaning with no issues.  As long as the weapon is properly lubed, it should keep running dirty.




hogdgz said:


> One more question, do i need to oil the inside of the bolt or just a light coat on the outside.
> 
> I am new to all of this so thanks for all the help.



Already answered, but I would add that you can find all the info you'll ever want on proper cleaning via google, including many youtube videos that will walk you through it.


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## hogdgz (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks guys, learning a little more everyday about these guns.


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## Gunplumber Mike (Feb 24, 2010)

Have you checked your gas rings?  Those are the three silver colored rings near the back of the bolt.  The three rings are "broken" --- not complete circles.  The "broken" places in the rings should be staggered.  If the three slots line up the bolt will leak gas and cause a short stroke.

To help diagnose your problem do this:  Place one round in the magazine, feed it into the chamber and fire it downrange.  Look to see if the brass is fully ejected and the bolt locked back by the empty magazine.  If the bolt does lock back every time that you try this, then you have a feeding or ejection problem.  If the bolt does not lock back, then you have a gas/recoil system problem.


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## hogdgz (Feb 24, 2010)

Gunplumber Mike said:


> Have you checked your gas rings?  Those are the three silver colored rings near the back of the bolt.  The three rings are "broken" --- not complete circles.  The "broken" places in the rings should be staggered.  If the three slots line up the bolt will leak gas and cause a short stroke.
> 
> To help diagnose your problem do this:  Place one round in the magazine, feed it into the chamber and fire it downrange.  Look to see if the brass is fully ejected and the bolt locked back by the empty magazine.  If the bolt does lock back every time that you try this, then you have a feeding or ejection problem.  If the bolt does not lock back, then you have a gas/recoil system problem.



This makes since, gonna try and do some more shooting tommorow and I will try this. Thanks


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## hogdgz (Feb 25, 2010)

Alright guys, I went back to the range today and got about 50 rounds through it. It functioned alot better since I cleaned it very well.  But the bolt is still not locking back properly all the time after the last round, i think it only locked back 1 or 2 times. It also jammed a 2 times and dented the caseing on the bullet. I am begginng to think maybe it is the mag or either the ammo not haveing enough pressure to take the bolt far enough back. Any suggestions?


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## red tail (Feb 25, 2010)

it sounds like a gas system problem. if the gas tube is not blocked and the gas key is tight it could be the front sigt or gas block is not properly aliened. Or could be bad ammo?


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## jglenn (Feb 25, 2010)

short stroking... gas system most likely or  wrong recoil spring but on a new weapon unlikely..

what model bushmaster...


did you tighten your gas key?


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## jonkayak (Feb 25, 2010)

Is this Bushmaster new to you or brand new? I had a Bushmaster that had a similar problem that started off like yours and only escalated. I checked everything and with every adjustment it seemed to only be getting worse. Finally a guy at the Firing Line in Athens looked at it. Turned out to be a bad spring in the trigger assembly. He replaced it and it shot like new. I'm not saying that's your issue, but who knows they can be tough to trouble shoot. Also it cost me $15 to have it fixed so check with the local gun smith it maybe cheaper then sending it back to BM.


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## hogdgz (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes this is a brand new gun. I have not tightned the gas key but i know it does not wiggle freely by moveing it with the hand but I will snug it up with an Allen wrench to make shure.  It is an A3 carbine with the heavy barrel, not a bull barrel but has the detachable handle and the front sight gas block.

Thanks for the help because this is starting to get aggervateing and really bothering me, especially since I dont really know much about these guns but quickly learning.


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## Gunplumber Mike (Feb 26, 2010)

You did check the gas rings alignment --- right?


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## hogdgz (Feb 26, 2010)

*more questions*

Alright guys I am  getting agervated. I cleaned everything real good. Checked the gas key and staked them down better, made shure the rings were staggered. 

Went to the range today and shot about 150 rounds through it and I know it is not the mags.

- I shot the rest of the UMC Ammo and it is still not locking back on the last round but it didnt jam like it was before.

-I then shot just a few rounds of wolf ammo and it didnt lock back either after the last round, one time it didnt eject and most of the times it wouldnt feed another in the chamber and one even got stuck in the chamber after it was shot.

 -I then shot some Federal FMJ i bought from wal-mart to test and it ran like a champ and seemed to be just a touch hotter. No jams and locked back almost everytime with the exception of about 2 times.

So does this mean my gun is really ticky about what kinda ammo, I hate it because some of my buddys can run anything through there guns.

Also I would like to mention that I noticed powder residue on the gas tube where it comes out of the upper half and runs up the barrel to the front sight. Is this normal or does it mean that I have a leak. I dont understand how residue could be on this part of the gas tube and if it is leaking this could be my problem. Also one of my buddies said is bushmaster was doing the same thing one time and he changed the buffer spring b/c the original was to short and it solved his problems. I wouldnt think this would be my problem b/c it is brand new. Thanks, getting ready to sell this and go buy a stag if this thing dont start acting right.


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## jonkayak (Feb 26, 2010)

Does not sound like a ammo issue.

BM's quality control is not what it use to be. The Buffer spring is easy to remove. Just swap (borrow one before you buy) yours out with a different one and see if that fixes it. If yours and your buddy's brand new gun both had short springs in it, it would not surprise me the least. I have seen this on a few newer BM.  Try this, probably not your issue but look at the lower with the upper half removed and see if there is any play in side to side play in the hammer or trigger.


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## hogdgz (Feb 26, 2010)

Nope, no play in the trigger or hammer, any other suggestions.


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## jonkayak (Feb 27, 2010)

It was a long shot

To bad you are 4 hours away I'd say bring it on over and we would figure it out. There not too much it can be. Once you build a few of these things from a pile of parts you realize that there is really not much to them. Try the buffer spring. If I remember correctly you can normally remove them by pressing on the little plate (can't remember the technical name) at the front of the buffer tube assembly and rotate it till it pops out. Then compare or trade out springs and see if that solves it. That's about the last no tool needed fix I can think of. Have you tried a different mag yet? Try a Magpul mag if you can get ahold of one. Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge then i have can lend you a hand.

I know some guns are picky about ammo but after 3 brands and still having the same problem something is wrong. 

At that point it my be a miss aligned front gas block. Or it might just need to be sent back in to BM for some retooling.


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## hogdgz (Feb 27, 2010)

Well thanks for the help and I do wish some one lived close so maybe we could figure this thing out. I have takken the buffer spring out and cleaned it and it fits in the stock perfect, doesnt seem to be to short or anything. I guess I could just shoot the Federal ammo cause it shoots really well out of it but that is still aggervateing not being able to shoot other brands. I will probably give Bushmaster a call on Monday, might try today if they are open.


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## hogdgz (Feb 27, 2010)

I was just doing some reading online and found some other people haveing issues like mine with short stroking. They were also saying that with the iron sights there guns were shooting way to the left so something was wrong with the front site alighnment. Well I have a red dot on mine but before I put the red dot on I was shooting with the iron sights and it was shooting way to the right, at 25yds I had to move my rear windage almost all the way over to the left to get it sighted in at 25 yds. Guess this could be my problem.


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## jonkayak (Feb 28, 2010)

If the front site is miss alined then it should be an easy fix. Many of them are just pinned in place. All that is needed on most is a steel punch and a hammer to remove the or loosen the pins. Some front sites have a different fastening method such as an allen drive bolt. Either way its a simple fix.


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## boatman00 (Feb 28, 2010)

If the front sight is off that much, it could be the gas block is not aligned with the gas port  on the barrel, which would reduce the gas pressure to eject. Also need to check the gas port on the barrel for obstruction.


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## hogdgz (Feb 28, 2010)

boatman00 said:


> If the front sight is off that much, it could be the gas block is not aligned with the gas port  on the barrel, which would reduce the gas pressure to eject. Also need to check the gas port on the barrel for obstruction.



Thats what I was thinking after reading all the info on the internet. People were haveing some of the same issues as mine is and the front sight was not alighned correctly. I am gonna call bushmaster tommorow and probably go ahead and send it back, I hate to have to do that but if this fixes it then it will be worth it.

Also how many rounds can you put through an AR or what is the typical life of one. I know some of the smaller parts would have to be replaced such as rings, ejector, and other bolt components, but what about like the barrel and the upper half where the bolt rides?


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## jonkayak (Feb 28, 2010)

Depending on the barrel a thousand rounds is just getting started. Most people will never wear one out. Also I know a lot of people on here are fanatics about keeping their AR spotless and thats is not the best thing for the gun. The more you rub and polish that thing the quicker the parts will wear out. Keep it clean but don't over do it.


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## hogdgz (Feb 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the help guys, I think I am slowly catching on, been doing alot of reading and thanks for all the info everyone has given.

Also, I tend to clean mine everytime after I shoot it but I only clean with a cloth, compressed air, Q-tips, and a nylon brush, no wire burshes or anything like that so maybe that want cause any more wear.


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## Mingo (Mar 2, 2010)

Sell the Bushmaster, buy a "better/different" AR. Use Pmags. An AR should feed anything,everytime. I personally have never seen an AR in good working order "jam". We only shoot COLT, Daniel Defense & LMT now. I owned a Del-Ton that was flawless too along with an Armalite NM. I had a Bushy that short stroked every time. Re-staked it, bump fired a 30 round mag perfectly & sold it. I personally think an A2 or fixed buttstock setup is more "solid/reliable" also. If you get a collapsable, get a quality mil-spec 1:14 tube & "H" buffer. Buy a Daewoo K2 or quality AK.


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