# Petetion to change deer harvest req.



## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

http://www.petitiononline.com/gadeer07/petition.html


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

If you do not agree with it then you have exercised your right to your own opinion.


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## AccUbonD (Nov 5, 2007)

This thread has potential


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## grim (Nov 5, 2007)

AccUbonD said:


> This thread has potential




LOL - I was wondering if I was the only one that heard this bomb ticking....


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Nov 5, 2007)

manage your own land how you want.  leave everyone else alone.


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## hevishot (Nov 5, 2007)

well put there Doc  H...I agree.


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## DaGris (Nov 5, 2007)

I did see more deer every year before they went to 12 deer a year......I used to see a bunch everytime I went.....now I might see 3 or 4, then go a couple of times without seeing any,...then might go twice and see a few....but years ago, I'd see 4+ everytime.......I would like the to see it go down from 12 to maybe 6 or 7 a year......but leave the bucks the way they are....A childs first buck doesnt have to be a " trophy ".....my 2 cents............but thats just me, .....your thoughts might be different........dont bash me for mine


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## GAcarver (Nov 5, 2007)

I agree on the total number of does should be lowered.


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## Randy (Nov 5, 2007)

You can't have a lot of deer and big bucks at the same time unless your artifically feed!


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## letmeoutside (Nov 5, 2007)

I would agree that the doe harvest is too much, but I think the buck requirements are fine the way they are.


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## stickflinger (Nov 5, 2007)

*Petetion*

One of the reasons that we have so many tags is because these so called QDM people and clubs are not killing enough does. We simply have too many does. The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack. We are never going to be like Illinois or Iowa. The only way that we will ever come close to those states is to get the doe population somewhere in the range of the buck population. These clubs that will only let you kill one or two does are just hurting any chance we have of getting deer in the size range of these other states. If it were left up to me, it would be one buck and twelve does per year. And all of these IDIOTS that kill deer at night and off of the side of the road should be ran out of the state. Just my 2 cents.


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## ALLBEEF (Nov 5, 2007)

I personally don't think that just because the limit is 12  - that everybody kills 12 deer - I really don't think this is the reason people are not seeing the amount of deer they think they should. 99% of the people that want to kill 8-10 deer every yr. are going to whether the laws states not to or not. -  and the rest are going to take 4-5 to fill up there freezers and maybe an inlaws freezer and they are going to quit shooting them.
I would rather see us go to a one quality buck minimum with an exception of a kid - say under 18yrs. old - the said kid could shoot anything. Just my .01cent take it for what its werth.


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## DaGris (Nov 5, 2007)

stickflinger said:


> One of the reasons that we have so many tags is because these so called QDM people and clubs are not killing enough does. We simply have too many does. The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack. We are never going to be like Illinois or Iowa. The only way that we will ever come close to those states is to get the doe population somewhere in the range of the buck population. These clubs that will only let you kill one or two does are just hurting any chance we have of getting deer in the size range of these other states. If it were left up to me, it would be one buck and twelve does per year. And all of these IDIOTS that kill deer at night and off of the side of the road should be ran out of the state. Just my 2 cents.



I've seen ALOT more bucks than does this year


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## fredw (Nov 5, 2007)

Who started the petition?  I disagree with the thought process and would like to share my opinions with the author(s).


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## BKA (Nov 5, 2007)

Wow!  6 signatures!!

We should also start one to legalize baiting!


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

fredw, your thoughts are welcome, just like everyone's. IM me if you'd like. See, I know that my outline of rules however strict may not be the best way but It has to start somewhere. If everyone participates in a Democratic government then less people complain. I'm not looking to upset anyone. What I'm doing is getting feedback on what other people think works. The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, due to voting, petetions etc.. I asked everyone to not bash anyone, just express your thoughts and let it be.


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## ellaville hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

leave it alone! if i want to shoot a 3 pt on the land i paid for it  should  be my choice


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## Jack Flynn (Nov 5, 2007)

Well Uh, we did it to ourselves!?!?! We have a 2 bucks and 3 does limit on our club. We have a ton of deer.....


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

A trophy managed club that plants year round food plots can have 140 to 150 class deer in 10 years. You take away the guy next to you that kills every buck he sees and that number may drop in half.

Another question, The ones that do go deer hunting out of state to kill trophy bucks, Why do you travel out of state? And please don't say to get away from spouse


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## bassman bo (Nov 5, 2007)

It is interesting to me that when I first started Deer hunting the total limit was 5. Two bucks - three does saw a lot more deer then than now. I wish there was  still a huntable population of Quail in Ga., if there were I would have never climbed the first tree and have to listen to everyone complain about what is right and wrong. Seems to me the DNR is working off estimates. In some states you have to be lucky to even draw a tag just to hunt, and all these tags must be accounted for used or not.


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## Jeff Phillips (Nov 5, 2007)

I signed it!

The WRD has ignored the oposition to the 12 deer limit at their public comment (waste of time) meetings.

In the meetings I sat through it was rare to find more than 1 or 2 folks who supported the limit increase, and they were folks with large land holdings.

When you tell folks they can kill 12 deer and they have 4 other members on their 200 acre club, that is surrounded by similar clubs, the herd takes a serious decline!


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## Buck Only (Nov 5, 2007)

Funny how hunters blame other for their lack of hunting abilities.  If you cannot shoot or see deer in Georgia you just might consider another hobby.......maybe knitting.


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## redlevel (Nov 5, 2007)

I'll sign one that requires you to present proof you have killed five does before you are eligible to shoot a buck.  


• We want to see more deer in general during a days hunt 

This is the one worst concept that has happened to deer hunting since I started in 1969 or thereabouts.  We used to consider it a successful hunt if we saw a half dozen deer during a season (which, if I recall, began as two weeks here in Taylor County).  I can understand wanting to see some deer, but it seems the consensus is that if you don't have a parade going by all day, something is wrong with the herd.  

The comment about having 140-150 bucks in 10 years with the right food plots is  just wishing.  If the genetics are there, you probably have them right now.  We do.  If you have  120-130 genes, you can feed them gold nuggets and they are not going to get any bigger antlers.  

bassman bo, I'm with you on the quail.  

Mossyoak, one thing you have done is inspired me to change my signature.  I'm going to leave it 'till the end of deer season.  Thanks.


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## Lostoutlaw (Nov 5, 2007)

op2: this ought to get good


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## mikey (Nov 5, 2007)

if we have such a shortage of deer then why are we seeing so many?  i will see 5-12 everyday in one field or another while working, and see deer every time i sit in the stand.


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## Son (Nov 5, 2007)

I don't need any more government regulation than we already have. Darn, next thing folks will want the gov to regulate brushing their teeth.
Seriously though, I don't see where any limit is going to make a difference in SW Ga because there's always those who don't think rules are for them.
And conserve what? if crop damage permits allow the local farmers to knock the numbers down. Sometimes crop damage hunting turns into trophy velvet antler hunting. Especially if the farmer turns it over to some youngsters who don't have conservation and management on their minds.
Biggest obstacle we presently have is one club next to us who shoots whatever they see, with some doing all they can to fill the 12 deer limit. The other is friends of surrounding landowners and/or farmers who sit the fence and shoot what they see.
You can't raise dogs in a place surrounded by alligators.


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## urbaneruralite (Nov 5, 2007)

"• We want to see more deer in general during a days hunt "

Your goals compete with one another. There's just too much evidence that shows low population densities generate bigger bucks. The only way around it is to farm your deer with plots and supplements. If you want to hunt in a barn yard, go ahead, but I'd at least like the option of hunting wild deer whether its easy or not.

I hope you deliver it. Even biologists deserve a laugh once in a while.


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## redlevel (Nov 5, 2007)

Son said:


> Especially if the farmer turns it over to some youngsters who don't have conservation and management on their minds.



I can assure you that conservation and management of his crops holds a much higher priority for the farmer than any concern for the deer herd when he has 20-30-40 deer raiding his corn/sorghum/sweet potato/peanut/soybean fields each night.


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## diamondback (Nov 5, 2007)

If you had just left it with lowering the doe harvest,I might have gone along with it.I may be wrong but I think that the processors have to keep records already or at least the ones around here do and the GW check em and they check taxidermists also.Keep the bucks like it is.I think the reason alot try to kill their limit is they are trying to offset the high lease prices they are paying to hunt in clubs.I pay 19 dollars a year and it dont bother me to pass on bucks on public land,But if its the last day of the season and I see a 4 point.Im gonna kill it if I dont have meat in the freezer.In my opinion most people that want to see more deer are the ones sitting in their box stands looking over a food lot waiting for a deer stupid enough to step out in the daylight instead of doing their homework and getting in the woods after em.I myself dont believe in the 4 point rule for qdm because it doesnt protect the 1 and 2 year old bucks that have good enough genetics to to make trophies and after 10 or 20 years all you see are trophy 4  and 6 points.


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## fishbum2000 (Nov 5, 2007)

*ever heard of a cowhorn?*

if you dont shoot cull bucks you will have bad genetics and it wont matter how much you feed them they wont grow the rack you want. i see deer every day, unfortunatly its on the side of the road taking a dirt nap if you want an illinois class deer go to illinois. or better yet call some of the guys on this site and ask them to help you , i have seen some nice racks posted this year. dont get me wrong i am not aginst shooting a big deer or trophy hunting but i have seen the effects of over population. anybody who has been on a state park hunt probably has seen what i mean. good luck in your hunt but please dont try to dictate mine. a lot of good men have died so i can hunt my property the way i want. i for one dont want to make thier efforts null and void. just my opinion, and we all know what they are like


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## Eddy M. (Nov 5, 2007)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> manage your own land how you want.  leave everyone else alone.


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## KnightMare (Nov 5, 2007)

Like so many threads I read lately, it seems to me that too many folks are concerned what everyone else is doing rather than what they are doing.  I do not need any additional government regulations impeding my time with nature.


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## Carp (Nov 5, 2007)

I think it's just fine like it is.


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## Dutch (Nov 5, 2007)

We are therefore petitioning you for a decrease of four does as well as changing the minimum rack requirement to two bucks with four points on one side and a minimum of one buck with antler tips outside the ears. 

Who is "WE"? I would not sign this petition just for this stuff
You manage you land/club like you want, and leave the rest of us alone. Hard enough hunting public land without a bunch of horn porn addicts trying to change the State game laws to suit thier own wants and whims.


There is more to hunting than a big set of antlers.

 Edited for typing around censor


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## Toliver (Nov 5, 2007)

12 Total Signatures 

Either this just started or not very many people agree.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

Ideal ratio of bucks to does is one to one per a Biologist with WRD. I guess the first thing that should happen is a way to monitor deer harvest vs deer monitored in the field (which has a statistical error based on location)

There are many factors that result in bigger bucks. Here is two
1. Living to be 4 &1/2 Y/O for starters
2. Proper Nutrition (I.E. Protein & Copper intake)

Urbaneruralite, I agree with you to a certain extent that lower population densities generate bigger bucks but that is because the lower the population, the larger the food supply and less chance of inbreeding.

These are great insights you guys are posting. Thanks


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 5, 2007)

Dutch, you better not move to Dooly County. I believe it's a trophy county. If you eat more than 8 deer per year I guess you're right.


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## jason8047 (Nov 5, 2007)

I think things are fine the way they are.  I actually wouldnt mind seeing all antler restrictions done away with.  I think its pointless to have restrictions on antler size.  If you are allowed two bucks it should be your choice if you want to take small ones.


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## K80 (Nov 5, 2007)

Do I want to see a bunch of big bucks while hunting?  YES.  Do I want this to be accomplished through legislation that takes away another mans right of free choice?  NO!  I used to believe that Ga should be a QDM state when I was younger because I wanted everyone to be selective like I am.  Although, the older I get the more I value my rights to free choice and will fight for another’s right of free choice whether I agree with them or not.  

This is the land of the FREE and our government needs to quit taking our freedoms away through legislation.  Legislation should not be used for anyone’s personal gain nor should it be used to push one person’s opinion onto others.

I don't see where anyone has the right to tell another man what he can or can't shoot on his own land or lease that he spent his hard earned money on(other than club rules on a lease) no matter how much I hate to see a small buck killed.  Whether I like it or not I will not look down on someone who shoots a small buck because they have the FREEDOM to choose what they want to shoot.  The best thing to do is to change a person’s way of thinking and legislation will not do this.  If a person wants to shoot small bucks or 10+ deer/year they are going to no matter what the laws are.

It would be great if everyone would stop shooting small bucks but I don't think it should be done through legislation.  As far as our deer population is concerned we are not hurting for deer in Ga so I see no need to reduce the bag limit, if you don't want 12 deer then don't shoot 12 deer.  As far as I'm concerned if you need more than 12 deer to feed your immediate family then shoot more than 12 deer.  This does not mean shoot 12 for you family and then a few more for others as well.  If you give a deer away you should not shoot over your limit.

Also, I don’t want Ga being like Ill. and other states because leases cost enough as it is and if we have a reputation of being a big buck state hunting will truly be a rich mans sport in Ga.  I feel that everyone one in that lives in Ga should be able to afford to hunt in Ga whether they have $100,000 or $1 in their bank account.

If you want better hunting in Ga and a larger herd push the legislators of Ga to limit the human population growth in Ga.   The more the urban sprawl spreads throughout Ga the harder it will be to find a good place to hunt at an affordable price.  As the price increases for hunting land the less people their will be that can afford to hunt in Ga which will increase the poaching problem we already have here in Ga.


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## BowanaLee (Nov 5, 2007)

Buck Only said:


> Funny how hunters blame other for their lack of hunting abilities.  If you cannot shoot or see deer in Georgia you just might consider another hobby.......maybe knitting.




Thats telling them !

Georgia is the best managed state in the south eastern US. Our BIG buck harvest backs it up. 
What makes you think you can do better than Georgia DNR.   ...Come on !  .
Manage your ON land. Leave mine alone.   .


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## Spotlite (Nov 5, 2007)

Lower the limt big time. Like it or not, we are allowed to take more deer than we hold in a square mile. Does not matter if I do not take all 12, but somebody does and will. Im sure everyone knows at least one person that limis out.


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## AXEMAN (Nov 5, 2007)

THunter said:


> Where was it again that you got your biology degree??



Have you ever seen a120 lb  5yr old 4 point... I have
Have you ever seen 185lb  4 yr old spike with 12 inch beams...I have
 Have you ever seen a 110 lb  3 point with a inside spread of 19 inches.... I have
Not all locals are going to produce monster deer.. every one of those examples came from coastal south Georgia. One from the Naval base and two from different WMAs each one was aged weighed and measured by  local state wildlife officials. I dont have a biology degree but some of those fellows do. 
fishbum2000 is not barking up the wrong tree according to those fellows there is a link not only to nutrition but genetics as well. Just look at the ears on Price Charles and tell me inbreeding has not done some messed up things to the royal familys genetics I think that  the current system is working just fine considering how variable the habitats in the state of Georgia are...... Dont belive me  lease a Club near the okeefenokee swamp and see  how different  those  deer are in size and antler mass than these deer  here in middle Ga are.. You pull out a 120 class down there and you have acomplished something rare


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## redlevel (Nov 5, 2007)

Spotlite said:


> Lower the limt big time. Like it or not, we are allowed to take more deer than we hold in a square mile.



Nope, from the Georgia Deer Management Plan:

_The 2004 pre-hunt statewide deer population exceeds 32 deer per square mile of forested habitat._
http://www.georgiawildlife.com/CONTENT/printversion.asp?txtDocument=407

The same document estimated the herd at 1.2 million deer.   

Where does all the nonsense come from?  I believe there are (at least) two factors involved:

1.  Does are becoming almost as nocturnal as bucks

2.  therefore, the average hunter from out of state or out of county sees a whole lot fewer deer during the weekend, and incorrectly assumes the herd is being decimated by the liberal bag limits.

Those of us in the country every day (and night) still see deer by the dozens as road kill, road hazards, grazing pastures, orchards, and cropland, and hopefully harvested and put in somebody's freezer.


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## AXEMAN (Nov 5, 2007)

K80shooter said:


> Do I want to see a bunch of big bucks while hunting?  YES.  Do I want this to be accomplished through legislation that takes away another mans right of free choice?  NO!  I used to believe that Ga should be a QDM state when I was younger because I wanted everyone to be selective like I am.  Although, the older I get the more I value my rights to free choice and will fight for another’s right of free choice whether I agree with them or not.
> 
> This is the land of the FREE and our government needs to quit taking our freedoms away through legislation.  Legislation should not be used for anyone’s personal gain nor should it be used to push one person’s opinion onto others.
> 
> ...



 I could not agree more...  Trying to turn hunting into a competion for the biggest rack ... Just leads to price escalation... Wich leads to fewer hunters being able to justify paying  that higher price to watch deer they cant shoot walk by  ......wich leads to  a decline in deer harvest .....Creating a rise in deer poulation ... Wich strains habitats..... wich makes DNR raise the harvest quota,,,,,, wich brings us  right back...... But wait  now leases  are so expensive  that  you average meat hunter (read that as doe slayer) cant afford to join a club. This sad state of affairs is gonna happen sooner or later with urban expansion and normal economic development... Why  for petes sake do we want to speed it up.  I honestly dont see the need to have so  many deer that I'm gonna see one every time I go into the woods. If you want a virtual walking wild meat market.. just pay some farmer and Go shoot A cow. The hunting is in the effort put into scouting the deer. I  Still hunt on a "dog club".... I dont hunt or plant food plots. I dont hunt any kind of field or man made opening... I  get in the  deep woods and scout trails, foods sources, and sign... I earn every deer I see and I do see a lot more than I shoot but any deer I shoot, take home, process, and cook for my family, be it buck or nanny is my trophy cause I worked for it. Does that make me any worse of a hunter or better  than the next guy.... NO.... its just the way I choose to do things. What floats my boat is  whats best for me and what floats yours is whats best for you.


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## burkecountydeer (Nov 5, 2007)

I would be happy to have the bucks 4 pts or better on one side and one outside the ears but I do think if a man wants to kill what ever he wants , as long as its legal , or a kid then do it .


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

The thing to keep in mind is that deer hunting has evolved from meat harvesting 30 years ago to trophy hunting today. Regardless or whether the cost increases. Gas has trippled in the past 30 years but have you stopped driving? Truck prices have trippled in 30 years but have you stopped buying them? The bottom line is that we all are going to pay the price because we love it. And if we love something why not make it the best it can be? 

I hunt property that you can see at least a 120 everytime you sit down in the stand; for more than 4 hours. We pass them up and soon we'll see 140's or maybe get lucky and see a 150. 99 out of 100 hunters would love to kill a 140 class buck. It's every hunters dream to bag that trophy, if it wasn't then you guys wouldn't buy deer scents etc... Why not place short term sacrifices for long term gains so that everyone can cash in?


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

Chew on this:
If you had to make any one change to harvest or whatever, what would it be?


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

I say a reduction from 10 does to 6 does.


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## capt stan (Nov 6, 2007)

Sign this????????


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## Phillip Thurmond (Nov 6, 2007)

I did not sign it becasue I don't want the Government telling me what I can or can't do.  On Our property we need to shoot about 100 deer a year to maintain a good population level.   Under your plan we can't even come close.  We have way to many deer.  I would like to see the state go back to the tagging of deer however this time if you don't send in your tags Used or unused then you will not be allowed to purchase one for the next season.  That woiuld be easy to do with computers and that would give them a real count of how many deer are killed.  I Just got back from NM and that is how they do it out there and I think its a great idea.  Another point your tags have your name printed on them when you purchase them.  That would keep people from getting more than one set like in the old days!


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## formula1 (Nov 6, 2007)

*RE: Funny*

If you going to have bucks like Illinois you must manage like Illinois:

1) Set a bag limit of two bucks any size just like them!  Oops, we've already messed up.
2) Cut most of trees down and plant the whole state in corn and soybeans. Somehow, I don't think that's practical in GA.
3) Have a 10 day gun season with no rifles and no hunting in the rut.  I would go for this, but most Georgians are used to their way of hunting and I respect that!

Instead, why don't you:

1) Learn how to deer hunt!
2) Join a club that will set the rules you are happy with!
3) Don't impose your will on all the other hunters in the state.

As of this writing, 16 signed the petition.  I think that is an indication of what most think of it!


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## shdw633 (Nov 6, 2007)

formula1 said:


> If you going to have bucks like Illinois you must manage like Illinois:
> 
> 1) Set a bag limit of two bucks any size just like them!  Oops, we've already messed up.
> 2) Cut most of trees down and plant the whole state in corn and soybeans. Somehow, I don't think that's practical in GA.
> ...



I couldn't agree more with this statement!  Everyone wants to be like Illinois but don't want to do what Illinois does.  How about a 10 day gun hunt, how about shotgun only, how about one buck only for your gun and one for your bow.  Illinois will let you kill as many does as you want as long as you pay 15.00 per doe.  I have permits to kill 5 does in Illinois this year myself and I know there are still close to 100 permits still available in the county that I hunt!!  People have posted that they seen more deer 5 years ago but don't remember that 5 years ago pretty much everyone wouldn't shoot a doe because they were, and I quote, "shooting next years buck", now everyone is blasting at them pretty much every chance they get.  I do agree that the doe limit is ridiculous but not the reason that you are not seeing as many deer.  I watched a doe last weekend stare at a box blind for 20 minutes before she stepped out into the food plot and no I did not shoot her.  Many of those deer in the northern states do not get the pressure that the southern states get week in and week out, bowhunters do not "shoot" up the woods.  Also the woods up north are less dense, allowing you to see deer for a couple of hundred yards all the way around you.  There is also less woods and more fields giving the deer less places to hide in.  There are many reasons that Georgia will not be like the northern states but signing that petition will not change anything and in fact if we don't start cooling it with the whole "trophy and QDM" crap we are going to QDM this sport right off the map, because we are losing hunters everyday and one of the reasons is because the sport is getting too expensive and too restrictive as far as harvesting a deer is concerned.  When you shoot a deer you should be congratulated, not harassed over the antler size of your deer.  Many hunters are starting to say it is just not worth it anymore because they are getting tired of the whole QDM philosophy and just want to go hunting!!!  By the way if you want to increase your big bucks limit the bucks to just one of any size and you will start to see bigger bucks because many hunters will bag that first 6 or 8 point that comes by and then be tagged out or the other senario is that they will pass on those same size deer hoping for a bigger one and may or may not get one that year.  The two buck limit allows the hunter to take that "cull" or smaller buck while still allowing him to hold out for Mr. Big!  Take that one buck away and lower your doe limit to 5 or 6 and the herd should start getting larger and the deer bigger in my opinion.


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## Spotlite (Nov 6, 2007)

redlevel said:


> Nope, from the Georgia Deer Management Plan:
> 
> _The 2004 pre-hunt statewide deer population exceeds 32 deer per square mile of forested habitat._
> http://www.georgiawildlife.com/CONTENT/printversion.asp?txtDocument=407
> ...


Even if its 50 or 60 per square mile, you have small clubs that most have at least 3 hunters in, and you will have about 3 small clubs in a square mile. Or you have a large club that most have at least 10 hunters in, that is at least 10 hunters in a square mile able to take 120 deer.


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## dawg2 (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't know...kind of on the fence here.  If everyone shot all those deer, then there may be a problem.  I personally hunt my property and see no decrease in the deer population.  Matter of fact, I just planted a nice Maple (which  has bright red and orange leaves) in my front yard that now has a rub going up the trunk almost 3' tall.  

One thing  I have noticed, is that does and the bucks are moving a lot more at night, which I think has a lot to dod with warmer winter temps.  That is probably why people aren't seeing deer.

I really do not like being told what I can shoot on my property period.  I do not advocate the killing of spike bucks, but some do.  I hunt and get 1 or 2 does, then after that I hunt for a nice buck.

not sure about that petition...looks kind of funny...


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## Jeff Phillips (Nov 6, 2007)

A couple of points:

1) Do the folks who "don't want the government to tell me what to do" advocate the elimination of all seasons and limits?

-The dates you can hunt are regulated!
-The animals you can kill are regulated!
-The types of weapons are regulated!

2) There are VERY FEW "cull bucks" in any herd. There are situations where the nutrition is inadaquate for the herd. Most "cull bucks" are seen by folks who lack the disipline to keep their finger off the trigger, "just gots to kill something"!

3) Deer herds have equal numbers of doe and buck fawns, year in and year out, they are equal. Georgia has killed more does than bucks for at least 5 years, and folks are still squawking about the buck/doe ratio Unless you have a bunch of 6 1/2 year old does running around on your property, your herd is not out of balance!

4) Threads like this one prove that the average deer hunter is incapable of making intelligent decisions on herd management. Those decisions are made every time we pull the trigger and most hunters do not understand the impact on their herd dynamics. Deer are not an infinate resource. We have wiped them out in the state of Georgia before!

5) The WRD has clearly stated that they want to reduce (eliminate in some areas) the deer herd. Hunters are a dying breed. They will allow you to wipe the herd out in your area if that is what you want to do.


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## Hammack (Nov 6, 2007)

Spotlite said:


> Even if its 50 or 60 per square mile, you have small clubs that most have at least 3 hunters in, and you will have about 3 small clubs in a square mile. Or you have a large club that most have at least 10 hunters in, that is at least 10 hunters in a square mile able to take 120 deer.



Sounds to me like people are expecting the regulations to make up for them not having deer?  In my area I would not be scared to say at all there are 50-60 deer per square mile of wooded land.  I realize its not the same from area to area, but rather than having the state amend regulations that effect everyone why would it not make more sense for the indiviual hunter to use his own judgement as far as what he takes off of a piece of land rather than doing what someone at the state level says is best when they have never set foot on your land???   Deer hunting as a whole will be around A LOT LONGER if we just learn to Hunt YOUR land the way you want and stop trying to push your beliefs and ideas on the rest of the hunting public which ultimately causes agruments among the hunting body as a whole.  I can promise you that is exactly what the anti's want!  THEY agree on what they want, but we can't seem to get along and agree on our side of it?    I'll be honest from what i have read on this forum, Most people on here would think I am a rogue when it comes to hunting.  During season I kill 10 does 2bucks every year in Georgia.  I kill several more in Alabama.  ( I might add that not one pound of meat was wasted)   I have shot on depradation permits year round for farmers (as well as for my father years ago) and have killed as many as 100 out of season.  Most of you probably don't like that.  Well tough.  The fact is I did it all legally, and I used my better judgement with all things considered, and honestly believe no harm was done to the deer situation by any action I committed.  The simple fact is as long as I can think for myself I don't need ANYONE telling how to manage my own place.  You shoot what YOU want I'll shoot what I want.  Besides you won't be hunting on my place anyway so why does it bother some people so?  OK, I'm thru with my rant......op2:


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## Twenty five ought six (Nov 6, 2007)

We don't have any club rules on how many deer you can kill.  Through the years (20 +), we haven't had anyone kill more than 4 deer, and very few of those.  Most of our members shoot 2 or 3 deer.  Of course we have a 100% member success rate too.

I would really like to know the number of people state wide that actually kill more than 8 deer a year.


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## Spotlite (Nov 6, 2007)

Hammack said:


> Sounds to me like people are expecting the regulations to make up for them not having deer?
> 
> rather than having the state amend regulations that effect everyone why would it not make more sense for the indiviual hunter to use his own judgement as far as what he takes off of a piece of land rather than doing what someone at the state level says is best when they have never set foot on your land???



Regulations cant make up anything, hunters are the ones that have the responsibility to make the right choices. You can go through the hunters safety course on the DNR website, it is a good course for everyone to refresh on.

But back to the question, we have hunters, and we have killers. The limits are set for the killers, a hunter knows when to stop pulling the trigger. Point blank.


Some people never consider the impact of their hunting.


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## PWalls (Nov 6, 2007)

Leave it alone. There is no problem like it is. It's a shame there are grown men on here that need the government to help restrict what they can do. The increased limit is nothing more than a tool. If you don't like it, then don't use it. Plain and simple.

Oh, and on the petition, I just love the first comment. Where is the documented proof that Insurance Companies are influencing WRD on these regulations?


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## Spotlite (Nov 6, 2007)

PWalls said:


> It's a shame there are grown men on here that need the government to help restrict what they can do.



Yes, its a shame they have to be forced with limits.


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## Allen Waters (Nov 6, 2007)

some have said seeing more deer and seeing trophy deer compete with each other. in pope and johnson counties i hunt in illinois i see more deer than the areas i hunt in ga. AND i also see bigger bucks. that is the kind of hunting i would like to see in georgia. jmo


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## gadeerwoman (Nov 6, 2007)

Realize that you deer in northern climates are much larger than Ga deer and are strains that have not been diluted like Ga deer. Their seasons are also very different from Ga seasons. Shorter gun seasons mean more deer survive to reach maturity.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

*Reply*



PWalls said:


> Leave it alone. There is no problem like it is. It's a shame there are grown men on here that need the government to help restrict what they can do. The increased limit is nothing more than a tool. If you don't like it, then don't use it. Plain and simple.
> 
> Oh, and on the petition, I just love the first comment. Where is the documented proof that Insurance Companies are influencing WRD on these regulations?



Since 1990, Insurance companies have donated over $270 *MILLION*
to campaigns, $172 MILLION to republicans. Now why is that I wonder????? Because a majority of hunters are republicans? Who knows. Bottom line, and you know this, Money talks and donkeydonkey walks. WRD can reccomend anything they want but if the man at the tops is being influenced by state politicians; no of it ever matters.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

What year did the limit go to 12?


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## fishbum2000 (Nov 6, 2007)

THunter said:


> Where was it again that you got your biology degree??



i dont have one ,but i have shot a 4 yeay old buck with only spikes, where was it you said yours came from??
the point i was trying to make was, if you are wanting to manage a piece of land then you have to get out the bad genetics. yes there are bad geens out there in the deer population, maybe not many but there are some. and if it is only a nutrition problem then how come places like the ranches in texas hunt cull bucks, do you suppose they just got to kill something? 

here is another nutrition question for you( by the way i dont have a degree in that either) what is considered to be the worst cause of mal-nutrition in the animal community as a whole? oh yea its over population. 
how can you say we need to decrease the limit to grow better deer when increasing the population will de-crease the food supply. this is simple supply and demand economics( no i dont have a degree in this either)

like i said i dont mind if you want to trophy hunt just dont try to get the government to make me do it. if you are having a problem seeing the type of deer you want to see then call some of the others from this site and ask them for some tips on hunting. 

i only have one last thing to say, everybody who reads this go and look at the rear bumper of your car, truck or suv, now how many of you who want an illionis class deer have a bumper stiker that says " we dont care how you do it up north"


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## burkecountydeer (Nov 6, 2007)

fishbum2000 said:


> i dont have one ,but i have shot a 4 yeay old buck with only spikes, where was it you said yours came from??
> the point i was trying to make was, if you are wanting to manage a piece of land then you have to get out the bad genetics. yes there are bad geens out there in the deer population, maybe not many but there are some. and if it is only a nutrition problem then how come places like the ranches in texas hunt cull bucks, do you suppose they just got to kill something?
> 
> here is another nutrition question for you( by the way i dont have a degree in that either) what is considered to be the worst cause of mal-nutrition in the animal community as a whole? oh yea its over population.
> ...




Tru Tru


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## K80 (Nov 6, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> 1)The thing to keep in mind is that deer hunting has evolved from meat harvesting 30 years ago to trophy hunting today.
> 
> 2)Regardless or whether the cost increases. Gas has trippled in the past 30 years but have you stopped driving? Truck prices have trippled in 30 years but have you stopped buying them?
> 
> ...



1) For the most part that is true, but some still hunt for and only care about the meat and the tradition that they grew up in.

2) Yes the cost of those things have gone up tremendously but there's a lot of people driving 10 year old beat up vehicles because that is all they can afford.  Also those things are a necessity and hunting is not.

3)  Unlike the things listed above hunting is not a necessity therefore, once it reaches a certain price point people will stop paying to hunt and some will resort to poaching.  Yes, some of those that can will pay the price no matter what.  There are also others that can not afford to pay the price of a hunting lease at the current price.

4) If everybody can kill a 140 class buck then a 140 class will no longer be a trophy to most.  Most folks want to kill something that is bigger than what everyone else can or does kill.  I would rather kill a 140 class the way it is now than I would if everybody saw 140’s every outing. 

5) I've let small bucks walk since I started hunting as a kid.  Most of the ones that I let walk as a kid would end up being killed by grown men in their 40's+.  I didn't like it one bit but there was not any club reg's that required a buck to be a certain size to shoot it therefore, they had the right to shoot it whether I liked it or not. 


No matter how I want things done or how you want things done, neither one of us has the right to make someone else do things the way we want unless we own the land they are hunting or we are the club prez and set the rules for the land they are hunting on.  A man has the right to do what he wants on his own land whether we like it or not and legislation should not be used to change that.


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## K80 (Nov 6, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> Chew on this:
> If you had to make any one change to harvest or whatever, what would it be?





Mossyoak77 said:


> I say a reduction from 10 does to 6 does.



I don't know what I would change if I had to make any changes.  Odds are I would remove the antler restriction because we should let each person decide what they want to harvest.

As far as the bag limit goes I would have to consult with an unbiased biologist and have them do a study of the state and use the information I get from him to make a decision, I’m not qualified to say how many deer need to be harvested throughout the state by each person.

I have a feeling that Jeff Phillips is correct in saying that the harvest limit is so high because of insurance companies.  I also don’t think the insurance companies should have a say in what our harvest limit is here in Georgia.  I think that the DNR and biologist should decide that based of what the environment can support.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

Most all of you are firm in your beliefs that you do not want government telling you what to do etc... The only thing the Government doesn't regulate in your everyday life is when you go to the bathroom, where you eat and sleep and when you scratch your bottom; and sometime I feel they have their hand in that (No pun intended)

So would anyone be opposed to just a better way of tracking deer harvest? I realize that the sampling method is flawed but at least we can get a pretty good estimate.


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## JBowers (Nov 6, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> Since 1990, Insurance companies have donated over $270 *MILLION*
> to campaigns, $172 MILLION to republicans. Now why is that I wonder????? Because a majority of hunters are republicans? Who knows. Bottom line, and you know this, Money talks and donkeydonkey walks. WRD can reccomend anything they want but if the man at the tops is being influenced by state politicians; no of it ever matters.


 
This proves only one thing: That reported donations were greater for Republicans than for Democrats.  It proves nothing more; nor is it evidence to support your rumor.

One can also assume that the significant increase in their benevolence to Republicans began in the race leading up to the 2000 election and conitnued while the Republicans were in power.  So, maybe their generousity was to ensure republicans get elected and thus lead to less regulation of the Insurance Industry and their business practices.

Finally, I believe that is a National graph and not a Georgia graph.  Further, as the graph provided has no title (graphs should be labelled adequately to stabnd alone without commentary) or information for an independent critical thinker to be confident that it actually does indicate donations from Insurance only!


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## fishbum2000 (Nov 6, 2007)

THunter said:


> Four-year-old spike?  Who aged it?
> 
> north carolina dnr officer.
> Actually I don't advocate reducing the limit. I think it is fine just as it is.
> ...


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 6, 2007)

JBowers, You are right about one thing. I should have given credit to the Center for Responsive Politics for that graph. Please visit www.opensecrets.org for more information about campaign contributions. Since 2000, Insurance companies have contributed over 5.7 Million to Georgia state lawmakers; thanks again to the aforementioned.
_"One can also assume that the significant increase in their benevolence to Republicans began in the race leading up to the 2000 election and conitnued while the Republicans were in power. So, maybe their generousity was to ensure republicans get elected and thus lead to less regulation of the Insurance Industry and their business practices."_

Or maybe one can assume that the insurance industry wanted to make sure they had a hand in a pocket, to get what they wanted. Like other well known companies throughout the U.S. like the one that recieved the Iraq rebuild and the Katrina clean up. I'm just assuming though.

Putting everything aside, this is good fun forum chat and I appreciate everyone's input. Now I know why government is so flawed, no one can agree on anything.


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## biggdogg (Nov 6, 2007)

i can understand wanting to see more deer. heck, i'd love to see my son get one his first time out. but if it were that easy to get a deer then you would be buying your deer steaks at kroger. the regs say you "can" shoot 12 does. it doesn't say you "have" to shoot 12 does. and comparing ga to illinois is absurd. i've hunted illinois for 10 years now. the bucks are bigger because of the agriculture and the fact that there are no guns until the rut is over. ga hunters would give up if they could only use a gun for 11 days a year. and speaking from experience, about 65-70% of the 150" + bucks in illinois are from non-residents hunting with outfitters. the majority of the residents up there are meat hunters and don't have any problems dropping a forkie. maybe it's time for hunters to take a trip to the woods and enjoy what they have rather than be disappointed because they didn't see 15 deer in one hunt. there's a whole lot more to hunting than killing.


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## AXEMAN (Nov 6, 2007)

THunter said:


> You sure must get around, because 99% of hunters will hunt a lifetime and not see any of those.  Course what you describe is a nutritional problem, not a genetic one.



No I didnt have to go to far. My experience comes from spending a vast amount of my 20s hunting public land.... and in doing so you learn the best friend you can have on a WMA is the local rangers, wardens,  biologists and area managers who conduct theses hunts and the hunters themselves. If a man takes the time to get to know these fellows and spend a little time around the check in stations he can see and learn alot. He gets to see not only what he might have shot on any particular hunt but also what numerous other succesfull and unsucessfull hunters have experienced. Think of it as a hunting club with hundreds of members who all show up in the same 3 to 5 day period. After a hunt ... lunch time  or afterdark  The place to see how the action is going is down by the weight station. I have seen as many as 40 trucks file in waiting to get thier deer tagged. Some are more than willing to spend time felowshiping with thier brother hunters as they wait on the Wardens  and Biologist to  poke , prod, weigh, measure take samples, age jaw bones and  finally tag thier deer. There is  also a record of every deer harvested and tagged.. What the sex, age, weight, antler specs, who shot it  where they are from, what they had for breakfast this all  carfully recorded. A hunter who wants to have a wonderfull learning experience  will find a check in hunt to be an amazing source of information...

Dont belive me just ask some of the other WMA  and public land hunters. Its the best  education 19 dollars can buy.


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## DASUTT1661 (Nov 7, 2007)

It makes perfect sense, kill off all the does and the bucks will reproduce asexually.


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## JBWilliams (Nov 9, 2007)

We got people complaining about the deer herd, and you cant drive anywhere in GA and not see a deer dead on side the road.  Buy you some land, put up a high fence and give your deer steroids.  You so called trophy hunters forgot what it is like to have fun inthe woods. DNR didnt sit aound a poker table and say "Hmmm, 12 sounds like a good number".   Research goes into controlling the deer herd and overpopulation is detrimental.  If you arent seeing deer in your deer stand, then stop fartin!


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## deerslayer2 (Nov 9, 2007)

1 id never sign the meat taste much better than the horns no matter how long i boil them they are still hard as a rock


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## deerslayer2 (Nov 9, 2007)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> manage your own land how you want.  leave everyone else alone.


amen to many politics going on now as it is the goverment already has to much say so over our land now you want to give them more


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## Dutch (Nov 9, 2007)

deerslayer2 said:


> 1 id never sign the meat taste much better than the horns no matter how long i boil them they are still hard as a rock



+1
Yep this is what it is all about....


Deer steak grilled with thick sliced peppered bacon and onions
Bake Tater
Bisquits with cane syrup


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## Zippin-z (Nov 10, 2007)

In the 7 years I,ve been hunting, I haven't seen anyone shoot more than 5 in one season. That was a good year, the ave. is around 3. We are out every weekend of the season. And from what I,ve read the ave. is 1.5 deer per hunter.  So I see no reason to change.


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## Ruger#3 (Nov 10, 2007)

*Long term deer management..??*



I wish there was a visible age counter of the posters on this thread. The truth is most of us are baby boomers, we are sitting here beating up on each other about long term deer management in the twilight of our hunting years. Truth is a couple decades will find many of us pushing up daisies.

If you want to make an impact and leave a legacy start to expend this amount of energy getting young folks involved with this sport that we love. Petition for moneys to be spent on events that will attract more young folks  and get them engaged. Stop another 5-10% decrease in the numbers of hunters we've seen in the last decade. Try to remember your first deer kill, or hunt for that matter, I dont think you were kneeled down there scoring it first.

Yes, I have a big 10 point mount I'm proud of but if that was all hunting is about I would wander over to the swap and sell and make a few folks happy. I'm sorry but some of this is so self serving and focuses on egos and not whats best for the sport.

Its been my experience that government looks at hunting as revenue generator. Asking them to change anything that is contrary to the overall plan to exploit the resource to maximum financial gain is a battle.

I'll now leave you folks to your focused debate, sorry to intrude.


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## firefighterfree (Nov 10, 2007)

I hate to say this but hope that this does not fly. What do you tell a kid that see his first deer in the woods and it is a spike or button head? Not to shoot it but its the kids first deer.Think about what you are saying and doing. Something like will discourage the future and younger generation. I think the way it is now is good enough. MANAGE YOUR OWN LAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Marlin_444 (Nov 10, 2007)

*Ptish'n*



BKA said:


> Wow!  6 signatures!!
> 
> We should also start one to legalize baiting!



How about one to make hunting within 200 yards of "Home Grown Bait" (Food Plots) illegal?

That'd get some folks fired up I'll bet!


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## Larry Rooks (Nov 10, 2007)

It is now up to 34 signatures.  Hope it gets to 34,000 or better  We need less deer killed and insurance companies out of it


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## polaris30144 (Nov 10, 2007)

One guy signed it twice.....ya think someone might notice????


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## redlevel (Nov 11, 2007)

Wow,  already up to 38 signatures.   Great grass-roots support.

Have you looked at the comments?  Here are a few I copied.  It really illustrates how a few would like to dictate how everybody in the state hunts.

------------------------------------------------------------
whole state should be a min of 15in and 4 points on each side except if a child wants to kill one for the first time and then you can explain trophy mangement


I agree, Trophy Manage The State


deer herd is getting smaller @ smaller


Need something to help with all the rednecks that shoot anything that moves.
-----------------------------------------------


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## NOYDB (Nov 11, 2007)

Dutch said:


> +1
> Yep this is what it is all about....
> 
> 
> ...



That was an evil thing to do, posting that pic. Got drool all in my keyboard.


Those that know how to hunt, see plenty of deer.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

You tell him or her to shoot a doe or a nice buck. You teach them to be conservative. For example, My cousin took his little boy hunting the other day and a basket rack 6 walked into the food plot. Little Blake was saying, Let me shoot em' dad, It was so funny, he filmed the whole thing. Dad said, son, We let them younger bucks walk and maybe we'll see a bigger one. Not an hour later a 20" 8 point walked out and little Blake got his first buck. The lesson that child learned was be conservative and you don't shoot everything you see. Blake has let appx 9 bucks walk since then, but he has piled up 3 does. More in part because I B/D ratio is 1 to 3.

Firefighter, you and I started hunting just as the deer pop. started to increase. We were not conservative then because I think the limit then was like 5 or something. You cannot expect to kill 600,000 deer a year and have anything left. What we conservatives want is a well balanced deer herd that has nice bucks. Why do you think Florida Hunters come to Ga. to hunt? There are deer in Fl. The reason is they do not have a healthy herd and the bucks are small.


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## walters (Nov 11, 2007)

*deer*



Mossyoak77 said:


> The thing to keep in mind is that deer hunting has evolved from meat harvesting 30 years ago to trophy hunting today. Regardless or whether the cost increases. Gas has trippled in the past 30 years but have you stopped driving? Truck prices have trippled in 30 years but have you stopped buying them? The bottom line is that we all are going to pay the price because we love it. And if we love something why not make it the best it can be?
> 
> I hunt property that you can see at least a 120 everytime you sit down in the stand; for more than 4 hours. We pass them up and soon we'll see 140's or maybe get lucky and see a 150. 99 out of 100 hunters would love to kill a 140 class buck. It's every hunters dream to bag that trophy, if it wasn't then you guys wouldn't buy deer scents etc... Why not place short term sacrifices for long term gains so that everyone can cash in?



maybe you have forgot what hunting is all about!!, if you see a 120 class bucks every time you sit down where is the hunt in that, do you need someone to grow you a big deer and let you kill it to call yourself a hunter, there is big deer on my club and it has never been managed, there was big deer on the last club i was in and it was not managed, now you had to go get in a stand and hunt for them, they wouldnt going to come out everytime you went, the thrill of hunting to me is just being in the woods, taking my kids to the wood, the hunting camp, camping. if you kill a deer thats just a bonus to many people have tried to turn it into a compition, i dont see a thing wrong with Ga Regs, i have seen more big deer killed around here in the last couple of years than i can ever remember.


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Some folks are so worried what everyone else is doing,that they have lost the ability to go and enjoy the outdoors themselves.In 99.9% of cases,the ones that are shooting 10+ deer now were killing 10+deer before 12 was the limit and will continue killing 10+ deer no matter how many petitions are circulated or regulations passed.The whole idea that "we can submit a petition and have the government get involved and come riding in on a white hose to save the day shows just how naive some of you are.If some of you would devote as much time to making enough money to BUY YOUR OWN PROPERTY AND MANAGE IT ACCORDING TO YOUR INTERESTS as you do starting petitions and e-mailing representatives,you might could decrease your dependance on the government to fix everything wrong in your lives..........


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## polaris30144 (Nov 11, 2007)

General Lee said:


> Some folks are so worried what everyone else is doing,that they have lost the ability to go and enjoy the outdoors themselves.In 99.9% of cases,the ones that are shooting 10+ deer now were killing 10+deer before 12 was the limit and will continue killing 10+ deer no matter how many petitions are circulated or regulations passed.The whole idea that "we can submit a petition and have the government get involved and come riding in on a white hose to save the day shows just how naive some of you are.If some of you would devote as much time to making enough money to BUY YOUR OWN PROPERTY AND MANAGE IT ACCORDING TO YOUR INTERESTS as you do starting petitions and e-mailing representatives,you might could decrease your dependance on the government to fix everything wrong in your lives..........





 Well stated.....


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## NOYDB (Nov 11, 2007)

Bergmann's rule states that, within species of mammals, individuals tend to be larger in cooler environments.

http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Bergmann's_rule_in_Odocoileus.htm

Fla deer are smaller because they are in Fla. not because of the way they are managed.


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## Larry Rooks (Nov 11, 2007)

The QDM people have had nothing to do with the Does being to numerous and fewer Bucks.  They don't shoot small Bucks and the # of surviving Bucks will be greater.
And I shoot Does.  I take several Does yearly to fill the freezer but I don't shoot small Bucks.  The reasons for out high limit has nothing at all to do with the deer herd or high #'s of deer.  99% of it is because we have let the insurance companies get in and push for these high limits
urging the ellimination of the deer herd.  You can bet yo butt that if the insurance has much more say so, they'l push for any method possible to decrease the herd.  We need to be able to stop the insurance companies from having ANY so so, PERIOD


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

General Lee said:


> The whole idea that "we can submit a petition and have the government get involved and come riding in on a white hose to save the day shows just how naive some of you are.If some of you would devote as much time to making enough money to BUY YOUR OWN PROPERTY AND MANAGE IT ACCORDING TO YOUR INTERESTS as you do starting petitions and e-mailing representatives,you might could decrease your dependance on the government to fix everything wrong in your lives..........



General Lee, I hate to break the news to you genious, but the government got involved to raise the limit to 12. "But Oh, that's different, I like the limit the way it is". You like government when they do what you want them to do. Other times you wish they would pack sand and die. The government regulates everything and will always regulate. They were and are elected by the people and for the people. So I'm going to use my right to get them to do what I elected them to do. If they don't, then we'll elect someone else who will. When it reaches the ballot, go vote no. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So if it passes or fails, the majority spoke.


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## jbarron (Nov 11, 2007)

General Lee said:


> Some folks are so worried what everyone else is doing,that they have lost the ability to go and enjoy the outdoors themselves.In 99.9% of cases,the ones that are shooting 10+ deer now were killing 10+deer before 12 was the limit and will continue killing 10+ deer no matter how many petitions are circulated or regulations passed........If some of you would devote as much time to making enough money to BUY YOUR OWN PROPERTY AND MANAGE IT ACCORDING TO YOUR INTERESTS as you do starting petitions and e-mailing representatives,you might could decrease your dependance on the government to fix everything wrong in your lives..........



I have to agee with General Lee...


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## Dutch (Nov 11, 2007)

I will not sign your petiton, because I do not agree with it nor with the direction that hunting is going. I liked it better when the limit was 5, I also liked the December break we use to have in the Northern Zone.

I will agree that the limit is to high, but I disagree with antler restrictions, QDMA, etc. I have a bad taste in my mouth from several incidents with some people trying to push QDMA on me and my family and land that we owned. Since then I view people pushing QDMA/Trophy management with a jaded eye, and don't have much use for them.

So if your petition/referendum does make it to ballot, I will vote against it as is my right, and if it passes than I will manage my family land as I see fit.


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## polaris30144 (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77, I hope you realize you of all people should not make disparaging remarks about someone else's intelligence. I  have read with some interest your postings and it is glaringly apparent you;

 1. Don't know how to spell. 
 2. Don't know how to use spell check. (right click a word with the red line under it)
 3. Can't defend your point of view without calling people with opposing views names and generally try to insult them.

 The problem isn't with your idea, it is with the delivery of your message. When the messenger sounds ignorant and arrogant, people tend to not listen. Try to make your point in a more intelligent and informed way if you want people in general to listen to you. Being mean spirited will only get people to tune you out in the long run. I don't agree with you, but will defend your right to express your opinion.


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> General Lee, I hate to break the news to you genious, but the government got involved to raise the limit to 12. "But Oh, that's different, I like the limit the way it is". You like government when they do what you want them to do. Other times you wish they would pack sand and die. The government regulates everything and will always regulate. They were and are elected by the people and for the people. So I'm going to use my right to get them to do what I elected them to do. If they don't, then we'll elect someone else who will. When it reaches the ballot, go vote no. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So if it passes or fails, the majority spoke.


It's G-E-N-I-U-S.


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## NOYDB (Nov 11, 2007)

General Lee said:


> It's G-E-N-I-U-S.



Some one called???


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## LJay (Nov 11, 2007)

Don't shoot any bucks and there will be Lots and Lots of bucks. Don't spend any bucks to shoot bucks and you will have Lots of bucks to write up petitions not to shoot bucks.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

Polaris, Great points! I too will defend your rights as well. Keep one thing in mind. The message only sounds ignorant and arrogant to those who oppose my POV. How do you think it sounds when someone says, "I kill deer to feed my family, and unless someone wants to pay my grocery bill I will continue to hunt the way I want to", When the cost to do so outweighs the cost of hamburger. Or what about when someone says, "I do not need the government regulating how I hunt" when they already do. Or when people are for killing more deer annualy than are produced. Polaris, you remember the time when seeing one deer was awesome, right. You cannot continue to decrease a herd and think that later on our kids or your grandkids will have something to hunt.

To set the record straight as well, I'm not for QDMA. I'm for a more quality deer herd. WRD states on their website, "To put deer harvests in perspective, a harvest of 5 deer per square mile (640 acres) is good in the Mountains and Lower Coastal Plain and 15 deer per square mile is good in the other regions." The problem is the limit is the same for both regions. The end result will be terrible to the mountain and lower coastal plain regions. I'm also not for so called QDMA clubs that harvest all bucks. The end result will be it causes antler declines and habitat deterioration due to overpopulation caused by poor food supplies and decreased carrying capacity. It also creates a skewed sex ratio favoring does.
I follow the guidelines set forth by the WRD as I feel everyone should. The benefit would be for eveyone. The ratio objective should be .6 bucks to every one doe per WRD. The state has set harvest limits at 1 buck for every 6 does. Many factors play into that decision but one is QDMA clubs kill 16 bucks and 2 does every year. They are improperly managing their herd.

In closing, whatever you feel is right or wrong is your opinion as well as mine. My desire to improve a treasured sport for everyone should not be frowned upon by anyone.


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## jbarron (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> ...To set the record straight as well, I'm not for QDMA. I'm for a more quality deer herd .
> ...I'm also not for so called QDMA clubs that harvest all bucks. The end result will be it causes antler declines and habitat deterioration due to overpopulation caused by poor food supplies and decreased carrying capacity. It also creates a skewed sex ratio favoring does.
> ....Many factors play into that decision but one is QDMA clubs kill 16 bucks and 2 does every year. They are improperly managing their herd.


 

Apparently you’ve developed quite a few misconceptions as to what QDMA promotes.  You should visit their website at www.qdma.com


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## Lorren68 (Nov 11, 2007)

This is for all those that think the insurance companies donate Monies to influence the DNR wrong the insurance companies donate monies to influence the insurance commision to keep georgia as a must have state and to keep the insurance rules in their favor.  

To the subject about deer limits and such

YOU HUNT YOUR WAY I'LL HUNT MINE

the deer in my avatar was taken on a club that used state wide regulations no food plots or feeding stations so the big ones are out there they are just smarter than the average hunter.  It does not take deer long to figure out why all these people are suddenly in the woods and to understand what all these 4 wheelers and trucks mean so old mossy horns heads for the thick stuff and only sticks his head out at night


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> In closing, whatever you feel is right or wrong is your opinion as well as mine. My desire to improve a treasured sport for everyone should not be frowned upon by anyone.


I agree Mossy.I do see you are passionate about this issue and by all means,you have every right to petition every Rep. there is and convey your feelings.It's just my humble opinion that the 12 deer limit is not the culprit for the decline in deer numbers.To some,the decline in numbers is merely a perception issue.The deer are there,but due to the rise in lease costs,they have to allow 10-12 members in to keep the dues reasonable on a 250 acre lease.With this many hunters,the deer have been spooked and gone almost totallly nocturnal resulting in few sightings by the hunters.For others,like in my neck of the woods,there has really been a decline in numbers.There aren't near as many deer now as there were in the early '80's-mid '90's,but I don't blame it on  increased bag limits.I blame it on the decrease in habitat condusive to a healthy deer population.Many of the hardwoods and corn/soybean/peanut fields that were abundant then are now rows of pine trees,and we've all heard the saying about deer and pine cones.Until I can afford 1,000 acres on the river and plant it all in hardwoods and alfalfa,I have to live with it,make the areas hunt as palatable to deer as I can and enjoy it.Not waste my time petitioning the government to come help me.One petition that I do think would be worthwhile is one allowing us to kill coyotes by almost any means necessary.I know some disagree,but I really do feel that they have wreaked havoc on the deer herd and will continue to do so until we declare war on them.Man,I'm with you,I've been there too-that 3rd or 4th hunt in a row without seeing anything and I know how the mind starts to race and come up with all sorts of reasons why.It's just my humble opinion that you're going in the wrong direction with bag limits,but if that's what you're gonna stick with,it is certainly your right.........


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

The misconception is that QDMA clubs actually follow QDMA guidelines. The QDMA club across from me puts out corn a week before bow season and never plants food plots. The have killed 4 bucks (Nice ones) and 1 doe.


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> The misconception is that QDMA clubs actually follow QDMA guidelines. The QDMA club across from me puts out corn a week before bow season and never plants food plots. The have killed 4 bucks (Nice ones) and 1 doe.


Well there are two QDMA's.There's the Quality Deer Management Association and the Quietly Distribute Maize Association.Sounds like your neighbors subscribe to the guidelines of the latter......


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

True, True....It works well for my property because the hunting pressure is different. Except for this one poor old fellow hunting with me. 60+ y/o, never missed a deer in his life and has missed 6 this season. He is a little down in the dumps right now. Keep him in your prayers. We think good ol' author has set in and he thinks about the pain before pulling the trig. and thus he is pulling off.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

Are there restrictions statewide against killing coyotes? It states you can hunt them at night even, with a light no brighter than 6V. No season for them. The only restriction I could possibly find but it doesn't specifically state, no electronic calls.


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> True, True....It works well for my property because the hunting pressure is different. Except for this one poor old fellow hunting with me. 60+ y/o, never missed a deer in his life and has missed 6 this season. He is a little down in the dumps right now. Keep him in your prayers. We think good ol' author has set in and he thinks about the pain before pulling the trig. and thus he is pulling off.


  Just a suggestion Mossy,In my petition to have the bag limits lowered,I'd probably not include the part about a guy hunting on my land that's  missed 6 already this season........


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 11, 2007)

Don't make fun, he can't help it. Had he actually killed one the number would have been much less. I should encourage him to put down that 30.06 for a 243.


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## General Lee (Nov 11, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> Don't make fun, he can't help it. Had he actually killed one the number would have been much less. I should encourage him to put down that 30.06 for a 243.


Oh,I'm not making fun of the Gentleman.I'm just saying that a petition to decrease bag limits because there are no deer that includes a statement about one guy that has already missed 6 not even a month into the season may confuse some representatives......


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## morris (Nov 11, 2007)

when did they drop the limit to 12?  Well my season was over 3 deer ago.


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## AXEMAN (Nov 12, 2007)

THunter said:


> Can you give me the names of some of those WMA's and the years that you saw that?  Seeing as how one of my best friends oversaw all that for the last 30 some odd years, I think he and I can go back and find it to study.



 WMAs Include
Little Satilla Muzzle loader hunts  for the 185lb 4 yr old spike with 12 inch beams

Rayonier  muzzleloader hunt for  a120 lb 5yr old 4 point...

Kings bay Naval submarine base for the 110 lb 3 point with a inside spread of 19 inches. See what other oddities he can find and let us know I bet there are a lot


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## BKA (Nov 12, 2007)

This petition is taking off like wildfire; already 51 signatures!


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## potsticker (Nov 12, 2007)

this thread is  as long as it can get. The fact is you join a club or go to a wma or national forest, you get what the area can produce. I can say that the dnr set the limit way too high, they did not take into consideration the mortality of fawns from predators. I dare say we will never see the deer we saw in the late 70s or 80s. Old yote will see to that. We take a few bucks and does each year, and the population is still about 1/4 of what we had 10 years ago. the deer werent starving then and they are in great shape now.I still believe you can have a high population of deer and still have quality bucks, i know ive read all that qdm stuff. Practiced it for 12 years now and the missing link is predation on fawns, i no longer see doe= two fawns its more like doe=one fawn. Our deer are harassed by dogs, coyote, every day. Saturday afternoon a police car ran by and it sounded like a dog farm, i got down early, i didnt want to shoot my way out in the dark..02 cents.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 12, 2007)

potsticker, you have a valid point. Do not forget that almost every 1&1/2 y/o doe or older killed after Dec.15 has young ones in her. The disappointment for me last season was watching a deer processor cut open a doe, Jan. 3rd, and two about 6-8 inches long come out. That was three killed in one shot.

Furthermore, WRD has divided the state into 9 Deer Management Units (DMU) for purposes of tracking growth as compared to region. Five of the top 20 deer came from DMU 3 which consist of 9 counties (metro Atlanta). Four of those counties have produced record deer and of those four, two were Dekalb and Fulton Counties. So, with bow only, minimal hunting pressure and a management system in place, Atlanta is on top. Not to mention the 5 plus major highways that run through those counties. So if it works in Atlanta, it can really work in most other regions.

The best part is now, 12 WMA's have antler restictions and the outlook is great on getting them all on board. Keep up the management.


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 12, 2007)

"I would not sign this petition just for this stuff"

Dutch, thanks for coming on board.


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## hicktownboy (Nov 12, 2007)

I would also like to see that does can be taken during bow and muzzleloader season, but not in rifle season until after Thanksgiving.  As anyone else noticed that all the deer get skiddish in December and it seems like all the deer are shot by then?  It just kills me that some hunters shoot a doe every weekend, when there is no way you need that much meat.  And has anyone noticed that the processor charges the same to process a yearling and a mature 3 1/2 year old doe?  I think thats hilarious for you "its brown, its down" hunters.  I can shoot a mature doe and get twice as much meat for the same price.  I just wish people were ethical about what they shoot.


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## redlevel (Nov 13, 2007)

hicktownboy said:


> I just wish people were ethical about what they shoot.




I have one neighbor who very ethically shoots the first three or four legal deer he sees, whether they be bucks or slickheads.  He usually gives me one to make sausage from. He then paces himself, in an ethical manner of course, as he completes his allowed legal harvest.

 Another neighbor  very ethically shoots forty or fifty a year on a crop depredation permit.  Ethically, the state should hire some professional hunters to thin the herd to about half what it is.  Either that or add a $50 surcharge to the cost of a big game license to help pay for crop damage.

Who died and left you in charge of "ethics"?   Your idea of "ethics" and mine might differ a little, do you reckon?


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## neckringer (Nov 13, 2007)

illinois buck to doe ratio is out a wack and getting worse due to people trophy hunting. many articles on this going around now.

manage your property and neighbors.


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## C.Killmaster (Nov 13, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> Five of the top 20 deer came from DMU 3 which consist of 9 counties (metro Atlanta). Four of those counties have produced record deer and of those four, two were Dekalb and Fulton Counties. So, with bow only, minimal hunting pressure and a management system in place, Atlanta is on top. Not to mention the 5 plus major highways that run through those counties. So if it works in Atlanta, it can really work in most other regions.



This line of thought would not apply to the rest of the state.  The reasons that large deer are killed around Atlanta are age and nutrition.  Bucks reach older age classes due to lack of hunting in suburban areas.  Suburban habitats also have exceptional nutrition from fertilized and irrigated landscaping.  Because of this the carrying capacity of the land is higher and can support higher deer densities and better antler growth.

Harvest stats from last year showed an average kill of 1.3 deer per hunter with only 0.45% killing 10 does.


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## dawg2 (Nov 13, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> potsticker, you have a valid point. Do not forget that almost every 1&1/2 y/o doe or older killed after Dec.15 has young ones in her. The disappointment for me last season was watching a deer processor cut open a doe, Jan. 3rd, and two about 6-8 inches long come out. That was three killed in one shot.
> 
> Furthermore, WRD has divided the state into 9 Deer Management Units (DMU) for purposes of tracking growth as compared to region. Five of the top 20 deer came from DMU 3 which consist of 9 counties (metro Atlanta). Four of those counties have produced record deer and of those four, two were Dekalb and Fulton Counties. So, with bow only, minimal hunting pressure and a management system in place, Atlanta is on top. Not to mention the 5 plus major highways that run through those counties. So if it works in Atlanta, it can really work in most other regions.
> 
> The best part is now, 12 WMA's have antler restictions and the outlook is great on getting them all on board. Keep up the management.




I like to shoot my does before rut if possible.  No loss of unborns.  BUt I have seen does on my property start out w/2 fawns and end up with one or none.  ALso my turkey flock is way down from in 20-30 range to 8-12.  We usually would see at least a dozen or more "chicks" now they only have a couple.  Coyotes ought to be open season, no restriction on lights or methods.  Same with armadillos which are devastating ground nesting birds (Quail/Turkey).


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## Wishin I was Fishin (Nov 13, 2007)

limit or no, people will still go over limit and still kill small bucks under the table. like Doc H says, you do your thing, ill do mine. why drag the whole state of Ga down. some places have thicker deer herds which need more than 4 does taken out per year to keep it healthy. and outside the ears may be a stretch. depends if you look at the deer with ears relaxed or poised and listening. somone may mix it up. 
JMHO.


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## HunterJacob (Nov 13, 2007)

*agree/disagree*

I feel the doe harvest is where it needs to be. I see more than enough of them in a season. I was just down to camp this past weekend for 4 days and saw 22 does and 5 bucks.

As far as the bucks go I could not agree with you more. Anyone can shoot a spike, 4 point or a little 6 (if your a meat hunter shoot a doe). I will say that there should be an exception for younger hunters though, it is hard enough to bring new blood into the sport. I would leave the regs the way they are for hunters under say 19 yrs of age.


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## yellowhammer (Nov 13, 2007)

*Petition*

For those who wish to trophy hunt only,DO SO.Just don`t push it on me.I`ve killed many deer in Ga.in my 61 years,some fine racks,too.I go huntin` TO HUNT.I shot a 5 pointer last week,outside spread,7 inches.Not a missprint.Why?Because I wanted to,and the law says I can.I killed two does in Tenn.,processed them and donated them to our local shelter for battered women.We will eat the 5 pointer,ourselves,plus whatever other legal deer I or my wife takes.The only difference between the 5 pointer and a 12 pointer?EGO.Hey,I like to get a good`n sometimes and show it off,but it`s still about my love of huntin`.I shoot squirrels,rabbits,quail,and doves.Know what?They`re all the same size.I just love to hunt.Each to his own.Someone telling me to hunt their way is the same as someone telling me to worship their way.I wish you the same success on your petition as I wish Hillary.


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## hicktownboy (Nov 13, 2007)

redlevel said:


> I have one neighbor who very ethically shoots the first three or four legal deer he sees, whether they be bucks or slickheads.  He usually gives me one to make sausage from. He then paces himself, in an ethical manner of course, as he completes his allowed legal harvest.
> 
> Another neighbor  very ethically shoots forty or fifty a year on a crop depredation permit.  Ethically, the state should hire some professional hunters to thin the herd to about half what it is.  Either that or add a $50 surcharge to the cost of a big game license to help pay for crop damage.
> 
> Who died and left you in charge of "ethics"?   Your idea of "ethics" and mine might differ a little, do you reckon?




I know people who have a permit too.  I think that is a great idea if you are having problems with deer eating your crops.  

Ethics is defined as the process of determining right or wrong in one's mind or conciousness.  

A child for instance who has never shot a deer, thinks man here comes a deer, "Dad, can I shoot it?" The child shoots it.  Good job, buddy.  A grown man for instance who has killed many deer, thinks man here comes a deer, "Is it a mature doe?  A mature buck? A yearling? A buttonhead?"  It turns out to be a yearling, just lost its spots.  "Man, I hadn't shot a deer yet, who cares, it will be some good eatin."  

That is unethical, I don't care what any of yall say!


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 13, 2007)

Look guys, we've been discussing this for about 8 days now. Very valid points have been given from both sides. I appreciate everyone's participation, even when it's been, not so polite. At a minimum, I'm going to push for a redux of 2 does and if I get lucky, min. rack for both bucks; 4 points or better. I will also request that any child under the age of 16 be allowed to follow current regs as it pertains to bucks.(If nothing else it'll give more fathers reason to take their kids hunting more often, if they don't already)
If and only if, this makes it to a ballot as a legislative referendum
then regardless of the outcome, I'll be content. Because as I have stated before, the needs and wishes of the many outweigh the needs and wishes of the few. Good huntin fellows!!


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## redlevel (Nov 13, 2007)

hicktownboy said:


> "it will be some good eatin."



Absolutely the most ethical reason for killing one of God's creatures.   

 Much moreso than  "How big is his rack?".   In fact, that is about the most unethical reason I can imagine for taking an animal.  

"I don't care what you say."


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## Drivus (Nov 13, 2007)

Gentlemen, this could go on for years and years. What we as hunters do not want is the state mandating every move we make. The WRD has given us the latitude ( with a 12 doe limit) to govern ourselves. Shoot what is appropriate for you and leave the rest. Quit worrying about what your neighbor is shooting because you can't control him or his choices. Some areas of the state grow bigger deer than others, some areas have more deer than others. Do what you can to help "your" herd and be happy. Most of us do not have the money to supplement nature enough to make a difference anyway. Make your harvest choices according to your own standards and ethics and allow your neighbor the same courtesy. Shooting a button buck is not unethical to some people. I have an uncle who would let an 8 pt walk so that he could shoot the button head behind him. That doesn't make him wrong or unethical, that is his choice. I say allow him that choice and you make your own. Surrond yourself with hunters of similar ethics and most of all ENJOY yourself!


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## K80 (Nov 13, 2007)

yellowhammer said:


> For those who wish to trophy hunt only,DO SO.Just don`t push it on me.I`ve killed many deer in Ga.in my 61 years,some fine racks,too.I go huntin` TO HUNT.I shot a 5 pointer last week,outside spread,7 inches.Not a missprint.Why?Because I wanted to,and the law says I can.I killed two does in Tenn.,processed them and donated them to our local shelter for battered women.We will eat the 5 pointer,ourselves,plus whatever other legal deer I or my wife takes.The only difference between the 5 pointer and a 12 pointer?EGO.Hey,I like to get a good`n sometimes and show it off,but it`s still about my love of huntin`.I shoot squirrels,rabbits,quail,and doves.Know what?They`re all the same size.I just love to hunt.Each to his own.Someone telling me to hunt their way is the same as someone telling me to worship their way.*I wish you the same success on your petition as I wish Hillary*.







redlevel said:


> I have one neighbor who very ethically shoots the first three or four legal deer he sees, whether they be bucks or slickheads.  He usually gives me one to make sausage from. He then paces himself, in an ethical manner of course, as he completes his allowed legal harvest.
> 
> Another neighbor  very ethically shoots forty or fifty a year on a crop depredation permit.  Ethically, the state should hire some professional hunters to thin the herd to about half what it is.  *Either that or add a $50 surcharge to the cost of a big game license to help pay for crop damage.*
> 
> Who died and left you in charge of "ethics"?   Your idea of "ethics" and mine might differ a little, do you reckon?



Don't charge me to cover the crop damage.  The deer that get shot with the crop permit do not affect me therefore I should not be charged an extra $50 for my license.  I agree it is a shame that the mature bucks get killed.  I see hunters paying extra for a license as a welfare program for the farms which is something I do not agree with.  The farm knows when he plants his crop that there will be some damage done by animals it is just a risk of the business and no business is without its risk.  I say let the farmer do what he has to do to protect his investment.



Mossyoak77 said:


> Look guys, we've been discussing this for about 8 days now. Very valid points have been given from both sides. I appreciate everyone's participation, even when it's been, not so polite. At a minimum, I'm going to push for a redux of 2 does and if I get lucky, min. rack for both bucks; 4 points or better. I will also request that any child under the age of 16 be allowed to follow current regs as it pertains to bucks.(If nothing else it'll give more fathers reason to take their kids hunting more often, if they don't already)
> If and only if, this makes it to a ballot as a legislative referendum
> then regardless of the outcome, I'll be content.* Because as I have stated before, the needs and wishes of the many outweigh the needs and wishes of the few.* Good huntin fellows!!



Tell me what the needs of the many are that would require a 4 point on one side law for both bucks?  I agree with the statement but the way I see it, the petetion is based on the wishes of some and not needs of many.  If the dnr feels that the limit needs to be reduced then they need to reduce it.  They do not need to reduce it because you say the should nor do they need to increase it based off someone else saying they should increase it.  They should do what the land tells them that they should do.

FYI, I'm in a club with antler restrictions by my own choice.  I have let several walk that meet the club restrictions but chose to let the walk because they did not meet mine.  Also, there has been several days I have seen 10 plus deer in one morning and I hunt in Wilkes County which is hunted hard.  I was talking to the guys that own the land next to my club and sat. evening one guy over there say around 20 at one time so it doesn't appear to me that the number of the doe limit needs to be reduced.  I know that in some areas there are few deer and in those areas the hunters should restrict themselves to what they kill. 



redlevel said:


> Absolutely the most ethical reason for killing one of God's creatures.
> 
> Much moreso than  "How big is his rack?".   In fact, that is about the most unethical reason I can imagine for taking an animal.
> 
> "I don't care what you say."



I agree, although I would love to get a buck like Jeff Phillips killed this year.



Drivus said:


> Gentlemen, this could go on for years and years. What we as hunters do not want is the state mandating every move we make. The WRD has given us the latitude ( with a 12 doe limit) to govern ourselves. Shoot what is appropriate for you and leave the rest. Quit worrying about what your neighbor is shooting because you can't control him or his choices. Some areas of the state grow bigger deer than others, some areas have more deer than others. Do what you can to help "your" herd and be happy. Most of us do not have the money to supplement nature enough to make a difference anyway. Make your harvest choices according to your own standards and ethics and allow your neighbor the same courtesy. Shooting a button buck is not unethical to some people. I have an uncle who would let an 8 pt walk so that he could shoot the button head behind him. That doesn't make him wrong or unethical, that is his choice. I say allow him that choice and you make your own. Surrond yourself with hunters of similar ethics and most of all ENJOY yourself!



Great post!


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 14, 2007)

K80, That statement was made in the context that if this issue or any issue for that matter, was brought before the taxpayers. Being the result either way. I could give two squirts about trying to convince you or anyone else what position to take. What I would like to see is, us as taxpayers, deciding what we think is best for everyone; hence the statement.


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## glh708 (Nov 14, 2007)

seems to me like its all about money and ego . who can see the most deer and kill the biggest buck.big racks dont make you a better hunter just luckier than others.


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## LJay (Nov 14, 2007)




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## Larry Rooks (Nov 14, 2007)

IF the deer herd in your area was too big, you would see a significant browse line whre everything below a certain
heigth was gone.  Bet you don't see it.  I would also bet that there is more than enough browse left indicating that
the herd is nowhere near being too big.  You want to see some areas that are over populated and the land want handle the herd, it will be in a high fense area where very few are taken and many are dropped yearly.  Nothing
grows from five or six feet down, all eaten.  This is not  the case on ANY public or private land in GA.  Another indication that the herd is NOT to big.

And as far as some that want shoot the limit, hogwash.  I talked to an individual Monday that has already taken 14,
and the season ain't half over  So they are out there folks, those that could care less about the sport of
hunting and keeping a good quality deer herd in tact.  All they want to do is kill em and think it is something special
to slaughter a truck load of deer at one sitting, knowing
most of the meat will go to waist  These are the as#$%&*'s that should lose all hunting rights forever and are out there for one reason, killing, no sport to it.  If this
type ****** continues, the deer herd in GA will dwindle slowly
until those of us that it really means something to want be able to do it any more.  If some of you think that the deer herd in GA can not be killed out, think again.  If some of these other states had these limits and the tags were filled,
their herd would be nothing like it is either.

If no more regulations are put on Bucks, that is fine with me, shoot whatever size you want to shoot, but there is no need in the high # of Does allowed.  And don't think that there are not those out there that kill that many and MORE


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## DLS (Nov 14, 2007)

I say that the people that truly believes that the Ga. deer hear is dwindling Just Don't Know where to look for them. There are way,way more deer now than ever . More than likely these people(not hunters) don't see many deer because they are hunting over bait(FOOD PLOTS) deer get wise to food plots as they do to most any bait. if you haven't been seeing deer, hunt away from the permanent stand and the bait plot, the deer know you are there & have moved to the woods.stop spraying deer lure & other foreign scents(deer from a different herd) that deer do not recognize In your heard . stop making squeaky sounds . & blowing a deer grunt horn all day , BE QUIET & DON'T STINK UP THE WOODS . The problem is not with the season limits it is with poor hunting practices.


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## polaris30144 (Nov 14, 2007)

DLS said:


> I say that the people that truly believes that the Ga. deer hear is dwindling Just Don't Know where to look for them. There are way,way more deer now than ever . More than likely these people(not hunters) don't see many deer because they are hunting over bait(FOOD PLOTS) deer get wise to food plots as they do to most any bait. if you haven't been seeing deer, hunt away from the permanent stand and the bait plot, the deer know you are there & have moved to the woods.stop spraying deer lure & other foreign scents(deer from a different herd) that deer do not recognize In your heard . stop making squeaky sounds . & blowing a deer grunt horn all day , BE QUIET & DON'T STINK UP THE WOODS . The problem is not with the season limits it is with poor hunting practices.



EXACTLY !!!!


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## Larry Rooks (Nov 14, 2007)

In many cases it may be poor hunting practices but not all.
I use a grunt and it has brought in MANY nice Bucks over the years.  I also use a Can call and it has brought in many
deer over the years.  I also use Doe Estrus and it has worked for me for many years, if you use it right.  In some
areas, there may be a larger herd than in others.  Some
areas will not stand these huge limits being killed where some areas may.  The AREA you are hunting is the KEY to how many deer need to be taken, some have heavier
concentraions of deer than others, and sometimes these
differences are HUGE.


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## reylamb (Nov 14, 2007)

Mossyoak77 said:


> potsticker, you have a valid point. Do not forget that almost every 1&1/2 y/o doe or older killed after Dec.15 has young ones in her. The disappointment for me last season was watching a deer processor cut open a doe, Jan. 3rd, and two about 6-8 inches long come out. That was three killed in one shot.



It does not matter one iota if the doe is killed in September or December, the net result is the same, zero population growth from that doe.  Which is really immaterial.

If a piece of property does not have the deer population to sustain the killing of 10 does it is immaterial anyway.  If the population on that piece of property is that low the statistics say there will not be enough deer seen to kill a limit of does in the first place, at least no legally.  If the deer are not there they can not be killed, so it does not matter what the limit is.

As the human population of rural Georgia grows the deer herd must be managed to account for that.  As humans expand we reduce the natural resources available to the deer.  As such the deer herd can not naturally sustain high numbers as were seen in the 80s throughout much of the country as there is not enough resources for a herd that large.  You can not manage the herd based upon human growth statistics from 20 years ago, the herd must be managed based upon available resources today and 20 years from now.  If not you end up with what they have on Kiawah Island, SC.  20 years ago the Island was a small resort that was only about 25% populated with people.  At that time they had a healthy deer herd with deer that were the same size as their landlocked counterparts.  Since that time the Islan has been developed with no end in sight, 6 golf courses alone in the last 15 years.  And yet there has been no hunting on the Island at all to manage the deer.  Net result, deer that look sick and malnourished as the population has stayed the same but the resources are dwindling.

Making any effort at comparing the metro counties, especially parts of Dekalb and Fulton, and projecting it to what could be in the entire state is futile.  The monsters coming out of those suburban areas are in the bow only areas.  Unless you are willing for the state to go bow only state wide the comparison is ridiculous.  Bow only ensures more deer reach maturity, and with maturity comes bigger antlers, for those interested in such things.

Making any effort to compare Illinois, Iowa, Kansas or Ohio to GA is also ridiculous.  Until the state is covered with gazillion acres of high protein food sources and mineral rich soil, ie soybeans, corn, wheat, etc, and the gun seasons are reduced to being days and not months, GA will never be the midwest.

Why should we put this to the voters of the state of Georgia.  Just how many voters out there are educated enough on deer, deer habits, and deer habitat to form an educated opinion?  We need to leave the deer decisions in the hands of biologists making recommendations to the legislature.  The last thing we need is for limits to be on the ballot box, we do not need non-hunters and anti-hunters making those decisions for us anymore than they do now.  At least now the non and antis under the golden dome at least listen to biologists.  No way soccer mom is going to.

Finally, enough about the insurance industry, it is hogwash.  What is next rumors of the insurance companies releasing wolves to kill deer in GA?  Think about it.  My premiums are higher because I live in GA and because GA has so many deer.  That is true for every single driver in this state.  Statistically about what, 10%??, 5??, 1??? of the drivers in this state will hit a deer this year.  Of those over 50% will not have enough damage to meet their deductible, thus insurance will not pay off anyway.  Even for those that do have damage that exceeds the deductible, is it more damage than they have overpaid in premiums over the years?  Not likely.  Net result, the insurance companies profit from the deer because they can charge a much higher premium because of the size of the herd.  Deer are good business investments for the insurance companies.  As for the donations, Republicans tend to be all for no fault insurance and tort reform.  Likewise, Trial Lawyers and Trial Law Associations tend to donate heavily to the Democrats because the Democrats tend to be against tort reform.  If anything the Insurance lobby donates to the Republicans in order to get some tort reform, limits on personal injury accidents, etc, not to kill more deer.


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## LJay (Nov 14, 2007)

About enough!!!!


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## discounthunter (Nov 14, 2007)

100,000 plus hunters in this state and only 60  some sigs. i think you have your answer.


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## discounthunter (Nov 14, 2007)

100,000 plus hunters in this state and only 60  some sigs. i think you have your answer.

 btw between me ,wife ,dad, dad in law  3 neighbors and 2 friends thats 108 tags! bring on the grillin sauce!( we've only filled 6)


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 14, 2007)

_"My premiums are higher because I live in GA and because GA has so many deer. That is true for every single driver in this state."_

No, your premiums are so high because an estimated 1.1 Billion dollars will be paid out this year to an estimated 1.5 million drivers just for accidents with deer. Thats an avg of $733.33/driver. Not to mention that was just stats from the largest insurer in the country over one particular accident and not all of them.

The comment, "deer herd can not naturally sustain high numbers as were seen in the 80s throughout much of the country" is untrue. As of 1979, the state of georgia alone had an estimated herd of 250,000 and the rest of the country was still recovering from the mass slaughterings of deer in the late 1800's and early 1900's; Georgia had a complete extermination by 1895. Hence the reason for the Pittman-Robertson Act of 1937.

Your belief about the insurance companies, which has a lot of truth to it, lacks in belief about the deer issue. Say what you want, but in 03 insurance lobbyist in Iowa pushed for unused 1st season tags be distributed in 2nd season for purposes of filling the "Quota" for that season. Keep this in mind as well, If your insurance provider went on national TV and said they were for extremely reducing the national deer population to help them lower premiums would you keep them? NO!!! You love the sport to much. If they reduced the # of deer related crashes by half, they would profit $550 Million dollars. So not only are they making money off premiums, now they picked up another chunk of change to go with it. 

Lastly, IAW your third paragraph, you are for eliminating the deer herd to make way for people. As the human pop. grows the deer pop. must decrease to maintain a healthy herd, that's what you meant. The pop. will never stop growing so eventually the herd will be completely extinguished again. Looks like we need to fight for preserving land as well.

Take care and good hunting!!


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## Marlin_444 (Nov 15, 2007)

*P-Tish'n*

Oh Good Lord... 

Where is Jim Thompson when you need him...

Me, well I put my scope on 11 deer today... 

Coulda taken a spindly buck (4 on oneside, spike the other)... 

There were at least 10 does... 

I took three deer in October, two does and a "Oops" sawn off spike... 

I goofed, he was was not a doe... but he'll taste good!

Point is I "chose" not to take any of those deer...

If you'd been there you could'a chose to take one, two or three...

I got plenty of meat in the freezer for me and my family... 

So, now I am content to horn hunt!

I had my best October ever, I hope you did too!

Good luck to you for the rest of the season... 

Get that Monster or fill that freezer!

If you are follerin the rules (Read: Law), you are in good shape...

If not, well Po Po / DNR and our judicial system have some gifts for you and your kind...  

They may not have gotcha yet... 

But they are going to... 

God Bless America and be thankfull we can discuss these matters publicly... 

If you don't like the rules, work to have'm changed or move to Canada...  

Sorry, I got on a tare...

Get out there and hunt, 1/2 the season is gone already!


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## Raven10475 (Nov 17, 2007)

I am with you Dback.  My young sons cannot sit in the tree trying to score that Buck that they just got lucky enough to see.  All while trying to remember to breath steadily, don't jerk the trigger, and make sure you get a clean kill zone shot.  They don't have the experiance that we seasoned veterans have.  My other problem would be, if we can only shoot quality bucks, then who culls the deformed, or bad gened bucks.  The WR snipers...as they have done in many of the state parks instead of allowing Quota hunts...
   Son a question to you...Why is it that only those of us who have faught for the Govt.  ( in the armed services) fear the govt. involvement in our lives???


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## Mossyoak77 (Nov 17, 2007)

_"Why is it that only those of us who have faught for the Govt. ( in the armed services) fear the govt. involvement in our lives???"_

Raven, everyone that served doesn't fear there involvement in his/her life. A majority of service men/women are typically republican and republicans push for small gov't with less federal involvement and more local jurisdiction type regs. I don't fear involvement yet I'm a republican. The gov't has taken great care of me and my family in my 11 years (and Counting). They've kept me paid, healthy, and stable. However, with there involvement comes way to much ******. This is what we've all experienced through the years. How many times did you say to yourself, "Man, who are these dumb jackass's making decisions?" Anyway, thanks for your service.


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## lakelbr (Nov 17, 2007)

Suits me to kill 'em all


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## DLS (Nov 17, 2007)

Mossyoak77     
 I thought I was the only VETERN that felt that way!
 thanks


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## wickedjester (Nov 17, 2007)

I,we(my boys)shoot within the guidelines set up by DNR.

Between us all 3 will never kill the limit set for 1 person in the given year.

We have been 3 times this year,not for lack of wanting too,just time doesnt allow it for our schedule.

I applaud you(Mossyoak77)for voicing your opinion.I just wish the ones signing your petition would voice it within reason and keep name calling to a minimum....

I dont think statewide we will ever go to hunting like Kentucky and Illinois.....

For me and my family we will hunt for meat,horns or whatever at the time as long as its legal.

Chris


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