# Question.



## hobbs27 (Dec 28, 2014)

I'm looking for a breed of dog that can serve two, possibly three purposes.

1. Has to be a guard for livestock such as goats.

2. Would like to train to trail wounded deer.

3. Possibly use as squirrel dog.

I know this is a crazy mix, but I've read that black mouth curs can be used to protect livestock. I also know people use them as squirrel dogs, and as an old coonhunter that used to own dogs that did very well in the competition circuit I think I have the ability to train.

 Now, am I barking up the wrong tree with black mouth curs  ? Would another breed of dog possibly fit my needs better? Thanks.


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## Scrapy (Dec 29, 2014)

An option is Catahoula cur. 

Both are silent mouth with good noses. I understand the Ladner variety has more "tree " in them. Working stock is one thing. I am not sure on either for guarding stock.


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## hobbs27 (Dec 29, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> Working stock is one thing. I am not sure on either for guarding stock.



Yeah, that seems to be my main concern. I know curs are sometimes used as cattle dogs, but that's herding? 

 I was thinking of raising a pup around the goats so they would nt excite its hunting instinct, but any coyote coming around would. Maybe I'm looking for too much for one dog.


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## Scrapy (Dec 29, 2014)

I should have said working the livestock. By herding, heeling or catching or trailing them up. Sorry.

I'm not sure either would be inclined to stay out in the back forty with the live stock but rather be on the porch guarding his master.


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## ryanh487 (Dec 29, 2014)

I wouldn't stick a dog on yote guard duty that wasn't significantly larger than a yote.  We've found a yote killed pitbull on our property, and if you look around youtube you'll find a video of yotes luring a medium-large dog into an ambush right in front of it's owner.  Might want to stick a donkey in the goat pen and get a dog for the other purposes.


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## hobbs27 (Dec 29, 2014)

The back forty is all woods. We only have 4 goats and they are close to the house so just giving us a heads up that something is out there would be all I need. The goats are dwarf Nigerian and my wife uses them for dairy and has them locked up at night.
If I can convince her the dog is for guarding against coyote....I can get a hunting/ tracking dog out of the deal. But it does need to be somewhat of a guard also....


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## Scrapy (Dec 29, 2014)

OH! Absolutely positively guard something close to the house. Yes sir. Now convince her it has to be in the yard to do it's job, not in the house. LOL


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## TripleXBullies (Dec 30, 2014)

ryanh487 said:


> I wouldn't stick a dog on yote guard duty that wasn't significantly larger than a yote.  We've found a yote killed pitbull on our property, and if you look around youtube you'll find a video of yotes luring a medium-large dog into an ambush right in front of it's owner.  Might want to stick a donkey in the goat pen and get a dog for the other purposes.




One good bulldog against one yote? I feel one yote wouldn't have a chance... and wouldn't to try. A pack is a different story....


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## dawg2 (Dec 30, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I'm looking for a breed of dog that can serve two, possibly three purposes.
> 
> 1. Has to be a guard for livestock such as goats.
> 
> ...



I have one and yes they can do all of that and more.  Very protective of women and children and do not like men they do not know.

MIne keeps our property clear of any animal that does not belong.  We have turkeys, guinea fowl and chickens and he knows they belong and has never touched any of them.  But he will steal eggs if you turn your back...he's an egg sucker!


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## dawg2 (Dec 30, 2014)

ryanh487 said:


> I wouldn't stick a dog on yote guard duty that wasn't significantly larger than a yote.  We've found a yote killed pitbull on our property, and if you look around youtube you'll find a video of yotes luring a medium-large dog into an ambush right in front of it's owner.  Might want to stick a donkey in the goat pen and get a dog for the other purposes.



A BMC will fight a bear.  They are catch / hold dogs for hog hunting.  Mine has tangled with bobcats and coyotes.  They are a hunting dog and can and will hold thier own.  Mine has brought down a full sized healthy deer.  They are a lot tougher than they look.

A good book that discusses the breed is called "The Big Thicket Legacy."


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## ryanh487 (Dec 30, 2014)

TripleXBullies said:


> One good bulldog against one yote? I feel one yote wouldn't have a chance... and wouldn't to try. A pack is a different story....



Based on the tracks, it was definitely more than one.  

I've seen packs of yotes far more often than i've seen singles.  I've had 5 sightings in the past few years, and 3 of those were 2 or more yotes at a time.


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## ryanh487 (Dec 30, 2014)

dawg2 said:


> A BMC will fight a bear.  They are catch / hold dogs for hog hunting.  Mine has tangled with bobcats and coyotes.  They are a hunting dog and can and will hold thier own.  Mine has brought down a full sized healthy deer.  They are a lot tougher than they look.
> 
> A good book that discusses the breed is called "The Big Thicket Legacy."



There's a lot of dogs that can kill 1 coyote, or bay a bear.  But put that same dog against 3 or more 30-40 lb hungry coyotes and they'll circle him and wear him down a nip at a time until he's too weak to stand and then finish him off.  Same way they can take down a calf or a deer.


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## dawg2 (Dec 30, 2014)

ryanh487 said:


> There's a lot of dogs that can kill 1 coyote, or bay a bear.  But put that same dog against 3 or more 30-40 lb hungry coyotes and they'll circle him and wear him down a nip at a time until he's too weak to stand and then finish him off.  Same way they can take down a calf or a deer.


I am very familiar with coyotes and how they "work" and "act."

I am aware a pack can kill a dog.  If you are using a BMC as a farm dog, he will protect the livestock and people.  If a pack comes in to kill goats, they will go after goats.  The dog will keep them from killing them and it will allow the person time to go see what all the noise is about and go help.  It is highly unlikely a pack of coyotes will kill a hard target (DOG) in a field of soft targets (GOATS).

If a dog ends up in the middle of the woods with a pack, then there is a higher chance of yotes being successful.  But I can tell you my BMC has run into a pack of several pn my property and he did survive. He did however break a canine and had one small bite on his leg.   The yotes had a much more difficult time based on the blood in the area and the blood covering my dog that was not his.  BMC's are not your typical dog and mine is pretty gritty.  He is old now and arthritis is setting in so he is no longer in his prime.


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## holton27596 (Dec 30, 2014)

if you can find an old school white english bulldog. Ive seen them taught to herd as well as to blood trail. not to sure about the squirrels.


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## hobbs27 (Dec 30, 2014)

dawg2 said:


> I have one and yes they can do all of that and more.  Very protective of women and children and do not like men they do not know.
> 
> MIne keeps our property clear of any animal that does not belong.  We have turkeys, guinea fowl and chickens and he knows they belong and has never touched any of them.  But he will steal eggs if you turn your back...he's an egg sucker!




Thanks, it's good to hear from someone with experience with this breed. I've worked with coonhounds in the past and knew a few people that used curs to coonhunt, but I liked a bawling trail dog back then.

 As far as grit and size. It's a good thing patterdale terriers are so small. I saw one kill a perfectly healthy Coon once that was three times it's size, I've never seen an animal go from sweet to totally insane so fast in my life. Many of these dogs are bred to take on animals much bigger than they are.


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## dawg2 (Dec 30, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Thanks, it's good to hear from someone with experience with this breed. I've worked with coonhounds in the past and knew a few people that used curs to coonhunt, but I liked a bawling trail dog back then.
> 
> As far as grit and size. It's a good thing patterdale terriers are so small. I saw one kill a perfectly healthy Coon once that was three times it's size, I've never seen an animal go from sweet to totally insane so fast in my life. Many of these dogs are bred to take on animals much bigger than they are.



I have seen my cur go from dog to animal when he goes after something. He is all business when he goes to work, pretty impressive.

They are not generally super affectionate or lap dogs.  They are nice but they tend to always be "busy."  Mine rarely ever walks anywhere.  He is always at a trot and constantly watching.  When he barks / bays you better go see what he has.


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## barnetmill (Mar 6, 2015)

For the hunting and trailing part a good cur dog or catahoula will work.  For coyotes I would want two fighting dogs because coyotes do run in packs.  The problem with helping out your dogs is that they often like the dark and trying spot coyotes at 2 AM is not easy.  I have dogs that are intended to deal just with predators and not hunt.  I have two old time White English Dogs.  One has thrown as bulldog in type and the other with an elongated skull and skins folds growing to the old shepherds Mastiff.  The early colonists took all sorts of dogs here and some mastiffs became part of the mixture.  I know some may disagree with me, but the best way to fight a pack is with another pack.  In fact with these two dogs I never expect to see a coyote on the place.  Time will tell.  The avatar picture only shows the white mastiff as a puppy and she looks differently now.


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