# UPD: GOEX production (real black powder) NEW INVESTOR : DOD



## georgia_home (Sep 28, 2021)

Saw a photo of the press release on another site I frequent. Olde elysenore is also owned by same company and will see same fate.

no link; you can search, the other site had screenshot of the press release


----------



## earlthegoat2 (Sep 28, 2021)

There are a lot of theories on this but I suspect insurance and regulations are most likely what caused this. 

Very bad news for black powder enthusiasts. 

Flintlock users really get shafted. There really is nothing else to use besides real black. 

Hopefully Swiss can keep up. 

I was taking steps to get much more into black powder here too. Guess I will put that on hold until I can see what will come of this.


----------



## Railroader (Sep 28, 2021)

Just did a bit of surfing on this, and Goex is already out of stock at all usual sources...

Black powder has been hard enough to find the last few years without this...

It's a long shot, but maybe someone new will take over the manufacturing plant.


----------



## georgia_home (Sep 28, 2021)

the ?synthetic? Stuff is there. Hodgdon makes several, which may be partly behind their decision.

I am partial to the real thing, as many are, especially traditional bp shooters.



earlthegoat2 said:


> There are a lot of theories on this but I suspect insurance and regulations are most likely what caused this.
> 
> Very bad news for black powder enthusiasts.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Original Rooster (Sep 28, 2021)

I hate to hear this. BP was already hard to find without ordering it online.


----------



## flintlock hunter (Sep 28, 2021)

I really like GOEX, and it's pretty much been my favorite black powder for many, many years. Elephant Powder was "ok", Swiss Powder is rated as better than Goex by quite a few hunters. I tried them all over the years, but as another post said, Goex is real black powder, and real black powder is about the only thing you can pour down a flintlocks' barrel an count on it to go bang when the deer is standing in front of it.

Really going to miss Goex.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Sep 28, 2021)

Durn. There is no substitute for Goex.


----------



## georgia_home (Sep 28, 2021)

A link…

https://namlhunt.com/goex-to-close....X-NcZ80OFTPX2R7e_nfAQF02aucWAvCXQzJ0z--4Xxbwg


----------



## flconch53 (Sep 28, 2021)

Just 1 more nail in the hobby I have enjoyed for over 35 years. I don't think Swis?s can keep up. Is elephant still in existence 
.


----------



## lampern (Sep 28, 2021)

Use pyrodex or pellets


----------



## Railroader (Sep 28, 2021)

lampern said:


> Use pyrodex or pellets



Not till I shoot up a few pounds of black.... ?


----------



## Nicodemus (Sep 28, 2021)

That`s gonna hurt us flintlock shooters.


----------



## flconch53 (Sep 28, 2021)

I looked up elephant and they are  out of business. Pyrodex is an OK  option for some Caprock but not all. Just did a quick inventory and I.have 4 lbs of black powder left and about a  pound of priming powder. That should last a little while as long as I don't shoot my cannon


----------



## fishfryer (Sep 28, 2021)

I have a really bad feeling about this. I’ve thought for several years now that to control or eliminate ammunition would be gun control through the back door. If there are no US manufacturers of black powder left then simple legislation to outlaw importation of it effectively makes black powder weapons wall hangers.With the unavailability of factory loaded ammo and scarcity of components,it moves us closer to the time when only the government has workable firearms. That will not be a good time. Most parts of the population could care less. There would be spirited celebration of it in the liberal/socialist element. My devout hope is that someone will acquire the Goex facility and resume production.


----------



## Darkhorse (Sep 28, 2021)

This is about the worse thing that could happen to  us flintlock shooters. Things will be at an uproar at the corporate level until everything gets washed out, potential profits calculated and government requirements satisfied. Then we will see how things work out and whether or not real black powder will be available.
Me? For once I'm lucky. Awhile back I ordered a 25 pound case of 2f mixed with 4f, and after that I ordered a 25 pound case of 3f. I'll need to inventory what I've got left and ration it out. The 40 caliber with light 3fg loads really stretches out a 1 lb. can., Practice with this and deer hunt with 2f if it comes to it.


----------



## smoothie (Sep 28, 2021)

It stinks! I cannot find any to hunt with. Darn pellets are everywhere but i need a little 4f behind the cap to make it work


----------



## earlthegoat2 (Sep 28, 2021)

smoothie said:


> It stinks! I cannot find any to hunt with. Darn pellets are everywhere but i need a little 4f behind the cap to make it work



There is Swiss 4F and Swiss Null-B at Grafs.


----------



## 35 Whelen (Sep 28, 2021)

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/hodgdon-closes-goex-blackpowder-plant/


----------



## smoothie (Sep 28, 2021)

Thanks! I just ordered some


----------



## deermaster13 (Sep 28, 2021)

Glad I stocked up.


----------



## flintlock hunter (Sep 29, 2021)

If you just want to stretch out your BP supply you already have on hand, you could put 5 or 10 grains of real black powder under one of the black powder substitutes like the Traditions PA PELLET suggests.


----------



## SwampMoss (Sep 29, 2021)

What is a good substitute for percussion caps muzzle loaders?


----------



## lampern (Sep 29, 2021)

SwampMoss said:


> What is a good substitute for percussion caps muzzle loaders?



 Not a good substitute but pyrodex has been around as a substitute

https://hodgdon.com/products/muzzle-loading-powder/pyrodex-family/


----------



## NCHillbilly (Sep 29, 2021)

lampern said:


> Not a good substitute but pyrodex has been around as a substitute
> 
> https://hodgdon.com/products/muzzle-loading-powder/pyrodex-family/


Pyrodex will work in a percussion gun, but not nearly as good as the real thing. I've shot it a good bit and killed several deer with it when I couldn't get Goex, but it's just not the same. Harder to clean, too, regardless of their marketing. Pellets don't work at all, or most of the other substitutes.


----------



## lampern (Sep 29, 2021)

Yep pyrodex is not as good as black powder but it will work


----------



## Nicodemus (Sep 29, 2021)

lampern said:


> Yep pyrodex is not as good as black powder but it will work




Not in a flintlock it won`t.

Pyrodex is not allowed at some pre-1840 events. As well it shoudn`t be.


----------



## flconch53 (Sep 29, 2021)

The flash point of pyrodex is about 400 degrees higher than black powder. Hence the probelm with flintlocks. That's why I scratch my head when theses modern muzzleloading guys talk about synthetic powder being hotter.


----------



## frankwright (Sep 30, 2021)

I don't shoot that much of it and I have enough to last me a good many hunting seasons but will sure be sorry to see it go.
Goex says it is looking for someone to buy the company and keep Goex going but that is a long shot.
Just for fun I looked at all the normal places that carry BP and almost all are out of stock already. The panic has started.
I seem to remember I use to use Pyrodex in my sidelocks and never really had any problems.
Flintlockers are just out of luck unless something changes!


----------



## Railroader (Sep 30, 2021)

I am very curious about the idea of a pinch of black under a load of substitute...

Just might make T7 work in the Hawken....


----------



## flconch53 (Sep 30, 2021)

Track used to sell a nipple primer that would put a little 4f down the nipple to get a quicker ignition. I think that if you used a premeasured load with a little more 10 grains going down the barrel 1st it should work.


----------



## flconch53 (Sep 30, 2021)

Just saw a news release that Shutzen Powder is going to step up production to try to take up the slack. When I had my shop I used to sell Shutzen and it worked well.


----------



## flintlock hunter (Oct 1, 2021)

SwampMoss said:


> What is a good substitute for percussion caps muzzle loaders?




The wife's Thunderhawk is an inline caplock, and not especially fond of real black powder. We switched that rifle over to Pyrodex Select and it's a winner.
If you decide to try the pellet version it might be wise to go over to a number 11 magnum cap, or get a 209 conversion. Some rifles need a little extra ignition to set off the pellets.


----------



## Flintrock (Oct 1, 2021)

Im going to try and make my own black powder .I  already ordered all the makings and the mesh screens for sifting out the grains .  I will make my own charcoal .  I already have enough Goex powder to last me but I always wanted to give this a try .


----------



## flconch53 (Oct 1, 2021)

I would think real charcoal not briquettes would work. I notice that some of the black powder manufacturers are specific about what kind of wood the charcoal is made from.  I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I am interested in how you make out


----------



## fishfryer (Oct 1, 2021)

flconch53 said:


> I would think real charcoal not briquettes would work. I notice that some of the black powder manufacturers are specific about what kind of wood the charcoal is made from.  I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I am interested in how you make out


I have read that willow wood  charcoal was prized for black powder making in the past.


----------



## Nicodemus (Oct 1, 2021)

fishfryer said:


> I have read that willow wood  charcoal was prized for black powder making in the past.




I`ve heard that same thing, Ken. If I was to start making my own, willow would be my choice too, if for no other reason than we have plenty of it.


----------



## Flintrock (Oct 1, 2021)

I read about the willow wood too. I also read that soft woods like pine and cedar work well


----------



## chehawknapper (Oct 1, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ve heard that same thing, Ken. If I was to start making my own, willow would be my choice too, if for no other reason than we have plenty of it.


Charcoal made from softer woods grind to a much finer powder giving the better results. The very finest charcoal powder I’ve made came from gourds.


----------



## Nicodemus (Oct 1, 2021)

chehawknapper said:


> Charcoal made from softer woods grind to a much finer powder giving the better results. The very finest charcoal powder I’ve made came from gourds.




I bet that`s why your pitch glue is so good and smooth, I bet.


----------



## Flintrock (Oct 1, 2021)

I plan to shoot some loads using Goex  and the home made stuff through a chronograph . I’ll need to put some space between the bore and the chronograph  so I will not singe it !


----------



## fishfryer (Oct 1, 2021)

Flintrock said:


> I plan to shoot some loads using Goex  and the home made stuff through a chronograph . I’ll need to put some space between the bore and the chronograph  so I will not singe it !


I’d be real interested in  results of test firing your homemade black. It’s one of those things many muzzle loaders  think of,time to time. PM anytime would be welcome.


----------



## fishfryer (Oct 1, 2021)

chehawknapper said:


> Charcoal made from softer woods grind to a much finer powder giving the better results. The very finest charcoal powder I’ve made came from gourds.


Gourds? I seem to know where some are!


----------



## Nicodemus (Feb 9, 2022)

Good news. It looks like Estes Energetics in Colorado has bought Goex and will continue production of true blackpowder.


----------



## fishfryer (Feb 9, 2022)

Nicodemus said:


> Good news. It looks like Estes Energetics in Colorado has bought Goex and will continue production of true blackpowder.


That is very good news


----------



## The Original Rooster (Feb 9, 2022)

Nicodemus said:


> Good news. It looks like Estes Energetics in Colorado has bought Goex and will continue production of true blackpowder.


Yep, some info on them picking it up.
https://www.alloutdoor.com/2022/02/02/estes-energetics-goex/


----------



## Railroader (Feb 9, 2022)

I fired many an Estes rocket motor as a kid, glad to hear this news!


----------



## NCHillbilly (Feb 15, 2022)

Nicodemus said:


> Good news. It looks like Estes Energetics in Colorado has bought Goex and will continue production of true blackpowder.


----------



## snuffy (Feb 16, 2022)

Anybody know when the powder will be available.


----------



## FIRESNC (Jul 24, 2022)

I have 3 unopened cans of fffg elephant black powder. The date is 1994,been kept in the house. Just wondering if it would still be ok.Also have a unopened can of ffg GOEX,with a 2004 date.They sound ok when the cans are shaken.Dont sound like any clumps . WOULD THEY BE OK.


----------



## georgia_home (Jul 24, 2022)

should be good. especially if airtight and not clumped.



FIRESNC said:


> I have 3 unopened cans of fffg elephant black powder. The date is 1994,been kept in the house. Just wondering if it would still be ok.Also have a unopened can of ffg GOEX,with a 2004 date.They sound ok when the cans are shaken.Dont sound like any clumps . WOULD THEY BE OK.


----------



## FIRESNC (Jul 24, 2022)

georgia_home said:


> should be good. especially if airtight and not clumped.


Thank you sir.


----------



## georgia_home (Aug 13, 2022)

Update: Estes / GOEX has a new investor.

apparently, a lot of explody things use black powder. The kind of things DOD uses.

they’re investing 3.5m in the company.


----------



## snuffy (Sep 30, 2022)

Any updates?


----------

