# I thought I wanted a 6.5 Creedmoor until I saw this picture



## PappyHoel

I already have a .308.  What's the difference for deer hunting?


----------



## lagrangedave

None.....................


----------



## transfixer

None for normal deer hunting,  the Creedmoor only excels at long distances, because of the smaller diameter bullet, its more efficient


----------



## PappyHoel

transfixer said:


> None for normal deer hunting,  the Creedmoor only excels at long distances, because of the smaller diameter bullet, its more efficient



I thought it was similar to the 300BO but I was mistaken.


----------



## GT-40 GUY

Look here:



gt40


----------



## B. White

transfixer said:


> None for normal deer hunting,  the Creedmoor only excels at long distances, because of the smaller diameter bullet, its more efficient



I don't have one, but this is the same thing I have understood from taking a look at them.  500+ yds it flattens out, but I ain't never shooting that far, unless somebody opens a new outdoor range a lot closer too me.

I would think recoil would be lighter, but I can shoot my FNAR all day with no reason to improve. I look for reasons to buy new tools, but can't find justification to get one right now.


----------



## transfixer

PappyHoel said:


> I thought it was similar to the 300BO but I was mistaken.



Nah,   I think the Creedmoor was designed with long range in mind,   I have a 300BO,  its pretty much only a short range cartridge.  Mine is unbelievably accurate, but I won't hunt with it over 150yds.


----------



## kmckinnie

Dang. My AR 10 ain’t no good. Just my luck.


----------



## Big7

PappyHoel said:


> I thought it was similar to the 300BO but I was mistaken.



Bad. Not even in the same hood.

FWIW.. Bout' the same as the 6.5 Swedish Mauser.

Shoot what you want. I have some stuff I really
don't need. But I could.


----------



## Lukikus2

Is there a chart with ballistic coefficients comparing the two? Got my interest peaked to.


----------



## GSUQUAD

The 6.5 has a better ballistic coefficient and bucks side winds better and shoots flatter  which excels at long range.  Most people don't shoot over 200 yards let alone 100.  At less than 200 I'd choose the 308, 300-500 I'd chose the 6.5, but I'd choose a 6.5 with higher velocity than the creedmor, which is why I shoot a 264 win mag up to 500.


----------



## Permitchaser

transfixer said:


> None for normal deer hunting,  the Creedmoor only excels at long distances, because of the smaller diameter bullet, its more efficient



I use my 308 for long distance competition, 178 gr. 600,1,000 yds


----------



## Big7

Permitchaser said:


> I use my 308 for long distance competition, 178 gr. 600,1,000 yds



Where do you shoot 1000 yards?

Nothing close to me.

 Ft. Benning is a LONG way for me.


----------



## T-N-T

Kick.  The 6.5 has less.  
And it's super popular right now. So, there's that


----------



## ky55

GT-40 GUY said:


> Look here:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3OosLWCDU
> 
> Youtube has changed I can not embed any of the videos and I don't know why???
> 
> gt40


----------



## Throwback

A deer isn't going to know the difference


----------



## nfa1eab

6.5 Creedmoor was developed as an alternative to the 6.5/284 which is hard on barrels. Talking 1500-1700 round barrel life. Mainly used for 600 and 1,000 yard competition. 6.5mm is the ideal caliber for long range ballistic efficiency. Doesn't mean squat for deer hunting. Most deer are shot at less than 100 yards. Standard cartridges, .243, .270, .308, 30/06, are all more than adequate for whitetail deer hunting in most situations. More exotic cartridges are more appropriate for other species that involve longer shots, like mule deer, antelope, elk, etc. There is no magic cartridge/bullet. Just my $.02


----------



## kmckinnie

So the 6.5 will our shoot a 270 ? ^^^


----------



## transfixer

Permitchaser said:


> I use my 308 for long distance competition, 178 gr. 600,1,000 yds



I have a heavy barreled 700 in .308 as well, set up for long distance,  .308 is a very efficient cartridge as we all know, but as the way of things goes someone is always trying to come up with something new .


----------



## JustUs4All

The main difference for deer is that the name sounds COOL.


----------



## ProAngler

kmckinnie said:


> So the 6.5 will our shoot a 270 ? ^^^



6.5 typically has better accuracy. Hard to really compare the two since 6.5 creedmore is based on the 308 case and 270 is based on the 30-06 case. More more powder and recoil to do similar work with a 270, but it does have more power.


----------



## kmckinnie

JustUs4All said:


> The main difference for deer is that the name sounds COOL.


----------



## kmckinnie

I got the 270 killmore !
Pretty good round. It will reach out there.


----------



## killerv

too bad the 260 didn't catch on like this thing is. I guess not as cool of a name. 260 is a great round. I have a feeling this will be the 260 killer for sure.


----------



## deast1988

killerv said:


> too bad the 260 didn't catch on like this thing is. I guess not as cool of a name. 260 is a great round. I have a feeling this will be the 260 killer for sure.



Last look at midway 6.5creed has more factory offerings then the .260.

It was designed for long range competition. It's based off a necked down version of .30TC.

It's in same ballpark as .308. But it's in a league if it's own on performance. I think it uses less powder achieves far more with less recoil. 

It's prob not needed for 300yds or less shooting but it is an amazing round. Ballistic Coefficient an Sectional Density set this apart from the .308.

When u can run a 142gr accubond that equals 190/200gr SierraMatch king in .30cal. You can get peak performance in small package.


----------



## rosewood

PappyHoel said:


> I already have a .308.  What's the difference for deer hunting?



You can also line up other cartridges and see similarities.  The following cartridges use the exact same headspace gauge.  Meaning the body and shoulder are the same.  The only difference is the neck and bullet diameter.  However, the velocity and energy from each given bullet can vary a lot.

.243 win
.260 rem
7mm-08
.308 win
.338 federal
.358 winchester

There are a lot of various cartridges that are virtually ballistic twins (I.E. 270 winchester, 270 WSM; 6.5x55, .260 rem. 6.5 creedmoor and may others), but through marketing and hype companies seem to be able to sell them to us anyway.  I can say the short magnum line of cartridges were a waste of time, they were virtually equivalent to existing cartridges only shorter and a 1/2" shorter rifle is really little practical gain and now ammo is expensive and hard to find.

Rosewood


----------



## rosewood

I can say though, the 6.5 creedmoor is picking up steam and seems to be more popular than the .260 rem.  You can find several different brands and types in stores of the 6.5 creedmoor and can barely find the .260.  Ammo is even cheaper.  I prefer the .260 because I can easily make brass from .243 or .308 if need be.  The 6.5 creedmoor is based on the 30TC case and is harder to form by the handloader.

Rosewood


----------



## Rich M

If I remember right - the current super shooter guy uses a 243 to win 1000 yard matches.

If you line up all the bullets and compare, there really isn't a lot of diff between them if using the same bullet design in a similar velocity.  Example 243 100 gr & 30-06 150 gr have essentially the same trajectory with standard cup & core bullets.

If you are buying a new gun to shoot 100-300 yards "better" then you have been totally duped by the gun industry.  

If you want to shoot 1000 yard competition, you may benefit from the 6.5 and a custom gun.  The main deal is the recoil.

Rose - I like the 30TC, too bad it never picked up any steam.


----------



## Will45

To add to some good information already mentioned...

Difference for deer hunting under 5-600 yards....  slightly less recoil is about the only measurable difference.  Where the 6.5 excels is with the bullet selection.  6.5 bullets (CM or 260 Rem) have higher ballistic coefficients in relation to their weight.  So a 6.5 CM with a 140 grain bullet will give similar trajectory to a 190 grain 300 WM, but with less recoil, shorter action, less costs, and of course less terminal energy.  The 6.5 CM has been dubbed "the 260 done right."   

So...  what makes it better is bullet selection for longer range shooting.  Again, inside of 5-600 yards, hunting purposes... not enough difference especially under hunting conditions where shooter error is larger than the measurable difference in cartridges.  

Now, here's where things get interesting...  look up a company called FlatLine Bullets.  They make some pretty serious solids that can do some pretty amazing things.  I believe their 198 grain 30 cal shot from a 308 Win, are blowing the traditional 300WM (and yes the 270) out of the water at long range.  They also make a 150-ish grain bullet that still beats any factory match 6.5 at longer ranges.  But i would not hunt with bullets as there is practically NO expansion.  

The reason the 270 is great at hunting ranges, but horrible at longer ranges, is because of bullet selection, or lack of bullet selection.  When advancements in .277 bullets matches those of 6, 6.5, and 7mm bullets, then the 270 will enter a whole new arena.  

Sorry to be so long winded.  That is actually the short version.  

Until recently (within the last year or so), several 6.5 shooters i know were switching back to 308 for hunting under 500 yards.  Factory ammo and reloading components are slightly less expensive.  But of course as the 6.5 craze gains momentum, more selection and cheaper manufacturing costs are keeping that mementum going.  

If you shoot over 500 yards hunting, or shoot competitions, then 6 or 6.5 dominates the 308 (exception being as mentioned above with the FlatLine bullets).  

2016 was dubbed "the year of the bullet".  As new cartridge offerings come out, the differences are minute compared to the recent advancements in bullet technology.  

This is just my opinion but i still believe that for hunting, shot placements is #1, and bullet selection is #2.  And that bullet selection has to consider the game, caliber, environmental conditions, and velocity range at impact with the game to ensure intended bullet performance.  

Sorry again for being long winded, but this stuff is my hobby.  Good luck to all and be safe.


----------



## Lukikus2

Good stuff. Great thread!


----------



## Jester896

some good posts here

one thing I notice in shooting .308 and .260s is the .308 travels very close to the tree tops at 1000 yards and the .260 runs a little better than half the distance to the tree tops....simplest way I can put it.

some of the 6.5 bullets BC is knocking on or just over the edge of .700 compared to a SMK in .308 of .505 if it is running over 2800 fps


----------



## campboy

kmckinnie said:


> I got the 270 killmore !
> Pretty good round. It will reach out there.



Me too!!


----------



## GT-40 GUY

If you are not shooting much past 1,000 yds. like I do I shoot a 6mm Norma BR. which is like a .243 short, but more accurate than the .243. You will probably need to reload for it though. My rifle will consistently shoot less than 2 inches at 400 yds. My best 1,000 yd. group was 3.25 inches and my largest group was 11.25 inches.

gt40

PS: Black target was at 400 yds. and the left bullet is a .243 and the one on right is a 6mm Norma BR. with a 105 grain Berger VLD.


----------



## whatman

I think they are best for people that want to say i got me  one of them 6.5 creeeedmoooores!


----------



## PopPop

Shooting deer at 500 yards or more is problematic. Time of flight is your problem. Fire the shot with correct holdover and windage and the deer takes 1 step at the same time and you're going to have a bad day, the deers will be worse.


----------



## TJay

I don't own one but I have read here and elsewhere about it's efficiency, ballistic coefficient, long range capabilities and inherent accuracy.  From a commercial aspect the marketing of this cartridge, on purpose or happy accident, has been one of the best I've ever seen for a new cartridge.  I'm not saying it's not deserved because it is actually a great round but everything from the name of the cartridge to the great support from Hornady has been genius.


----------



## shane256

There are a few larger 6.5s now, too... 6.5-300 Wby, 26 Nosler, and the 6.5 PRC. The 6.5 Leopard (6.5 WSM, basically) has been out a long time, too, as a wildcat. As well as the 6.5x284 which has also been out a while, kind of between the mediums and the magnums. And there's been the 6.5x55SE which has been around for over 120 years.

I have a .260 and have been considering getting a 6.5 Creedmoor just because it's more common now. I have a closet full of .260 ammo, though, that I'd need to sell or something, though.

6.5 Creedmoor has caught on... both the name and from the folks who think "folks say that this thing is 0.0001% better than the other thing so it's gotta be the one I buy" and  the "although I will never shoot further than 100yds, I want a 1000yds sniper rifle" crowd  In any case, it's good because it gets a medium 6.5 into the mainstream. The medium 6.5s are great because the recoil is fairly mild and it's very good at killing game (120gr to 140gr bullets are great for whitetails) from the end of the barrel to further than most people can shoot. There are a number of people who have used 6.5s (6.5x55SE and others) on elk for many years here in the States. There are WAY more rifles in 6.5 CM now than .260 and the ammo situation has switched. A few years ago, there were 20+ .260 options on Midway USA and like 5 for the 6.5 CM. That's completely flipped now... like 5 for the .260 and 30 for the 6.5 CM.

So yeah... I've been toying with the idea of switching over, myself, just because of the availability of, well, everything.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes

PopPop said:


> Shooting deer at 500 yards or more is problematic. Time of flight is your problem. Fire the shot with correct holdover and windage and the deer takes 1 step at the same time and you're going to have a bad day, the deers will be worse.



At still over 2000 fps @ 500 yds I don't think taking a step is an insurmountable problem. It takes more than a quarter of a second for a deer to initiate and complete that task. The 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't drop below supersonic out beyond 1200yds. Same can't be said for the .308. 

Of course grain and load are all contributors to this information.


----------



## PopPop

Miguel Cervantes said:


> At still over 2000 fps @ 500 yds I don't think taking a step is an insurmountable problem. It takes more than a quarter of a second for a deer to initiate and complete that task. The 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't drop below supersonic out beyond 1200yds. Same can't be said for the .308.
> 
> Of course grain and load are all contributors to this information.



I shoot a 257 Weatherby Magnum and 500 yards is a shot to far on jittery deer with a 4inch margin of error.YMMV.


----------



## Jester896

I think the only advantage to the Creedmoor is it has more available loaded ammo options currently.  I believe the .260 will out perform it and not very long ago there were more people winning matches with the .260 than the close second Creedmoor. If you reload the .260 has pretty much the same options so you are really only limited to...nothing...except the slight loss in velocity.

Another good choice for screaming 6.5 rounds are the 6.5WSM at around 3200 fps with a 140 gr bullet or the 26 Nosler.  I have seen what the 6.5WSM with a 140 bullet does to a deer at 606 yards.  I have seen what a 28 Nosler does to a deer at 475 yards...simply put...unnecessary.  Dead is dead.

Time of Flight for a .260 running 2885 to 500 yards is .633 seconds


----------



## pottydoc

GT-40 GUY said:


> Look here:
> 
> 
> 
> gt40


Watched it, and read a bunch on them. And I looked at a bunch of ballistic tables. Out to 400 yards, there is very, very, little difference. Nothing that the deer will notice, as either will kill them real dead. There's not much more difference at 500 yards, and the results will still be a dead deer. After that, the 6.5 starts to open up.the gap, but how many deer hunters are shooting even at the 400 yard mark?


----------



## shane256

pottydoc said:


> Watched it, and read a bunch on them. And I looked at a bunch of ballistic tables. Out to 400 yards, there is very, very, little difference. Nothing that the deer will notice



Nope, but there's something the shooter will notice from the firing pin onwards (less recoil)


----------



## spurrs and racks

*question?*

what exactly is the difference between a 6.5 creedmore than a 7mm-08?

s&r


----------



## spurrs and racks

*and....*

any answer will do except...

"not enough to talk about"

s&r


----------



## Jester896

it has a different case capacity and is based on a different case.  The 7mm-08 is a .308 based case like as is .243(6mm) or .260(6.5mm), and .284(7mm)

the shoulders are a little different too...closer to Ackley


----------



## pottydoc

shane256 said:


> Nope, but there's something the shooter will notice from the firing pin onwards (less recoil)


Maybe a young or inexperienced shooter shooting paper or refilled water bottles. Someone shooting at a deer isn't gonna notice.


----------



## kmckinnie

I want a 6.5 now. 
Wish I never looked in here.


----------



## cself

I bought my first rifle when I was 14 it was a 6.5 x55 Swedish it shot very similar to my dad's 270 (Remington 700) but we both shot it with a little better groups. I have killed several deer with it and shot it recreationally as well out to 580 yards and have always loved it for both. Because of a lack of available rounds and lack of time/patients for reloading I started looking for another rifle, I don't get to purchase rifles very often especially when I already have one that serves a purpose. A few months ago I finally settled on the Creedmoor in a Ruger American predator mainly do to the less felt recoil and I'm already familiar with the caliber. I am very happy with it, I was able to get about a three-quarter inch group at a hundred yards propped on a soft case across the bed of a truck and I also have killed a buck with it that went about 15 yards. Everyone is right less than 300 yards there's no reason to purchase it over a 308 or a 270 for that matter but it's a great round and if you have a bad shoulder like me the recoil is similar to a 243 and that is much less than a 308. Recoil doesn't matter much for hunting but shooting recreationally it makes a huge difference. hope this helps and Pappy I live in Watkinsville as well if you would like to shoot mine sometime.


----------



## PopPop

I am sure the 6.5 is wonderful, but, I keep hearing about less recoil, more energy and the like. I have trouble understanding how this is possible, as recoil is a function of physics. Same weight rifle and stock design, same weight bullet, same velocity equals the same recoil impulse. You can start increasing velocity and decreasing bullet weight and achieve many things but when compared to something else balistically similar, recoil will be also similar.


----------



## Lukikus2

PopPop said:


> I am sure the 6.5 is wonderful, but, I keep hearing about less recoil, more energy and the like. I have trouble understanding how this is possible, as recoil is a function of physics. Same weight rifle and stock design, same weight bullet, same velocity equals the same recoil impulse. You can start increasing velocity and decreasing bullet weight and achieve many things but when compared to something else balistically similar, recoil will be also similar.



It sounds great to me to but I would still love to see the ballistics table on it. Might be my personal preference but when the bullet looses under 900 ft lbs of energy, I ain't shooting anything with it.


----------



## Jester896

then you should be good out to somewhere between 7-800 yards with a .260.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes

I think this chart spells it out best for PappyHoel


----------



## spurrs and racks

*i'm sticking with*

the 7mm-08

nothing here to blow my skirt up about a 6.5 creedmore

s&r


----------



## spurrs and racks

*I found this*

http://www.msrhunt.com/post/6-5-creedmore-vs-7mm08-7587152

your welcome

s&r


----------



## lampern

For hunting the 308 outclasses the 7mn08, 6.5 and .260


----------



## B. White

Cabelas has a cheap Savage today for 199.00 with a cheap bushnel  scope. Rebate drops it to 150.00. You might as well pick it up and give it a try. Nothing to lose, since I’ll buy it from you for 150.00 plus tax, if you don’t like it.


----------



## shane256

Whiteboy said:


> Cabelas has a cheap Savage today for 199.00 with a cheap bushnel  scope. Rebate drops it to 150.00. You might as well pick it up and give it a try. Nothing to lose, since I’ll buy it from you for 150.00 plus tax, if you don’t like it.



Where do you guys find these deals? I can't ever find these things on their websites.


----------



## PappyHoel

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I think this chart spells it out best for PappyHoel



Thanks but since I never anticipate taking a shot further than 200 yards I think the difference is negligible.  3 pages of debate though


----------



## Miguel Cervantes

PappyHoel said:


> Thanks but since I never anticipate taking a shot further than 200 yards I think the difference is negligible.  3 pages of debate though



You did accomplish something then. 

Let me know when you find a bargain on a .338 Lupua.


----------



## spurrs and racks

*308 outclasses*

"308 outclasses the 7mn08, 6.5 and .260"

not much difference in these, however I don't agree with that statement ...

s&r


----------



## Buckstop

If one has a .308 or 7mm08, as said, nothing to gain with the 6.5 at our normal eastern hunting distances. That said, I own a 6.5 CM and have really enjoyed hand loading and punching paper with it. 

It has a slight advantage of a bit lower recoil and is an inherently accurate design. The main advantage I see however, is when hand loading 140 grain bullets like the Berger vld's, you can load them all the way to the lands and still have them fit the magazine of a short action. The very subtle additional case length of the .260 will often make the cartridge too long to fit the magazine box in a short action when loaded to touch or jam the lands with the longer bullets.

Will carry the creed later in the season when doe harvesting time comes. Till then it'll be my .25-06, just because its my current favorite.


----------



## T-N-T

lampern said:


> For hunting the 308 outclasses the 7mn08, 6.5 and .260



I had no idea a certain caliber outclassed another ever.
I mean to think, I have killed deer with things as lowly as 357 Magnum from a carbine.  
I feel dirty now


----------



## T-N-T

I shoot deer with a tiny, measly, underpowered and weighted 6.8 SPC now. I'm sure I would benefit form a creedmoor, but I can't put my hands in the stainless one I'm looking for yet .....
Yes, the 6.5 is my next rifle choice, if I don't find a 7mm 08 first.


----------



## yellowhammer73

deast1988 said:


> Last look at midway 6.5creed has more factory offerings then the .260.
> 
> It was designed for long range competition. It's based off a necked down version of .30TC.
> 
> It's in same ballpark as .308. But it's in a league if it's own on performance. I think it uses less powder achieves far more with less recoil.
> 
> It's prob not needed for 300yds or less shooting but it is an amazing round. Ballistic Coefficient an Sectional Density set this apart from the .308.
> 
> When u can run a 142gr accubond that equals 190/200gr SierraMatch king in .30cal. You can get peak performance in small package.




Bingo. 

The 260 runs a very close race with the 6.5


----------



## Jester896

yellowhammer73 said:


> The 260 runs a very close race with the 6.5



I like to look at that a little differently
a Max load of H4350 is 44.5 gr and 2735 fps under a 142 SMK in a .260
a Max load of H4350 is 41.5 gr and 2694 fps under a 142 SMK in a 6.5 Creed

I kind of appears to me that the Creedmoor runs a very close race with a .260 


I am not real sure there is a very big advantage to loading the Creedmoor into the lands, or anything else for that matter inside of 400 yards.  AISC, Wyatt, or Alpha make longer mag boxes and mags so if you needed to get anything loaded out to the ends it is possible.  But if you are running factory equipment you can still get 2.850-2.859 most of the time.


----------



## glynr329

Okay I finally shot a nice buck with My 6.5 creedmoor and was very disappointed. I use the 129 grain SST and I did get the deer but had to shoot several times last 2 shots in the neck. The deer would not die. Should I go with the 140 grain? Don't get me wrong I love the gun and it shoots sweet and planning on hunting with it. I am not bashing and asking a serious question.


----------



## Jester896

glynr329 said:


> I am not bashing and asking a serious question.



what was the shot placement?


----------



## glynr329

One did not have exit wound but he could not get up back area. I was shooting down. He was walking away with doe. The next was neck and the last was upper back of neck. He was a pretty big body deer 178 lb. I have read where lot of people were shooting 140 and liked them. That is why I am asking.


----------



## Jester896

sounds like you got more spine than vitals if I am reading that right. Same thing with your neck shots. I might try a through the vitals or high shoulder before I gave up on them.  The 140 could very well do the same thing under these conditions.


----------



## glynr329

True thanks for the response.


----------



## shane256

glynr329 said:


> Okay I finally shot a nice buck with My 6.5 creedmoor and was very disappointed. I use the 129 grain SST and I did get the deer but had to shoot several times last 2 shots in the neck. The deer would not die. Should I go with the 140 grain? Don't get me wrong I love the gun and it shoots sweet and planning on hunting with it. I am not bashing and asking a serious question.



I shot/shoot 140gr Core-Lokt factory loads in my .260. I've never recovered a bullet even when breaking leg bones. I've never had to shoot a deer twice with it. I've never had a deer run out of  my sight. I've only had limited experience with SSTs (in other calibers) but I'd rather use something else. I know some other folks who use 120gr and 130gr bullets on whitetails and they've had good results. I just like heavy for game bullets (I use 180gr in .30-06).


----------



## kmckinnie

Mercy. Lols


----------

