# German shepherd ears



## Bamafan4life (May 31, 2010)

Well my german shepherd just turned 6 months old and his left ear still aint standing and i just found out about taping last night so i taped and then i read if they aint up by 7-8 months they probly wont come up, so am i pretty much screwed if it dont stand up this month? i heard about some kinda implant surgery anybody know how much that will run? Im just worried tell me your experiance with german shepherds ears.


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## vonnick52 (May 31, 2010)

Never had a problem with the Shepherds I grew up with.  My mom's Jack Russel was fed a high-protein puppy food for longer than recommended and her ears ended up standing up and they ain't supposed to.  Funny looking thing.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 1, 2010)

This german shepherd is the smartest dog ive ever had he will shake then ill say give me the other and he gives me the other, he will kiss me, lay down and when i put my hand into a gun and say bang he falls over and plays dead. but he looks like a goofball with the one ear down and the other up lol.


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## Iam99x (Jun 1, 2010)

Our female German Shepherd had the same problem. Tape them up both up with the fat popsickle sticks in the back of the ears. She has no problem with them now, and that was 2 years ago.


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## vonnick52 (Jun 1, 2010)

My family bred a few litters of German Shepherds when I lived in Indiana, I remember our puppies when their ears were just starting....they do look silly when they are half up, half down, and flopping a bit.  Girls always gush over how "cute" they are.

I wish I still had a picture of the male that we kept outta our female's first litter.  He was a big, big dog for a Shepherd.  He eventually died from wounds he received fighting a mountain lion.   Never saw the cat again, or evidence of it, so he either did his part too, or at least ran the cat off for good.

Trust me, my mom's Jack Russell looks really ridiculous....ears stick up like a Shepherd's are supposed to.  Looks like she could use them for a radar.


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## SarahFair (Jun 1, 2010)

I read they will drop when they are into teething...
My shepherd boy whos about 8/9 months now was standing then they dropped and are now standing again 

Good luck!


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## DSGB (Jun 1, 2010)

Thankfully, I never had to do this to any of mine. 

Here are a couple good articles:

http://leerburg.com/tapingears.htm

http://leerburg.com/pdf/tapingears.pdf


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## Rattlecrap (Jun 1, 2010)

When puppies are 6 months old their K-9 teeth (the big teeth in the front) are completely down but they are still loosing other teeth like pre-molars etc...  because they are loosing their puppy teeth and gaining their adults they are loosing a lot of calcium, it is very common for dogs to have ears that "flop" over because of this.  If your puppy is not on a vitamin I would recommend one (Petabs, or petabs plus) all puppies should be on one of these for at least one bottle's time.  I would bet you that if you start yours on a calcium supplement for a couple of months and let the adult teeth come down the ears will start to stand up again.


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## K9SAR (Jun 7, 2010)

German Shepherds' ears rise and fall generally around the same time as teething.  Incisors are first, then canines, then finally molars.  A GSD's molars usually don't come in until 6-9 months of age.  We feed our dogs a raw diet high in protein and calcium so our dog's ears were up and stayed up around 6 mths of age. 

I have read that people that rush into taping/gluing their dogs' ears cause more damage than good.  

If your dog's ears aren't up by 8-9 months, then you might talk to the breeder about the floppy ears, presence of floppy ears in previous litters, as well as proper taping/gluing of the ears if erect ears are important to you. 

DAY ONE: (8 weeks old)






DAY TWO: (8 weeks.....1 day old)





10 weeks old:





11 weeks old:





13 weeks old:





15 weeks old: 





16 weeks old:





5 months old:





10 mths:





Present (17 mths old


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## dawg2 (Jun 7, 2010)

I wouldn't tape them.  Mine did the same thing.  Ditto on K9's post.


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 7, 2010)

Leave them alone for now. Too early to tell if they will stand or not. If they never stand will it make him less of a dog? NO, it will give him more character.

What kind of breeding is he out of?


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 7, 2010)

His dame and sire where both imported from germany, my brother gave him to me and he hasnt sent the registartion papers to the akc yet, wont they be able to tell me more of his information?


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## K9SAR (Jun 8, 2010)

Bamafan4life said:


> His dame and sire where both imported from germany, my brother gave him to me and he hasnt sent the registartion papers to the akc yet, wont they be able to tell me more of his information?



What are the sire's and dam's names?  If you know that, then you can find out the whole pedigree


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 8, 2010)

Ill have to ask my brother, but how can we do that?


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 9, 2010)

here i found a letter from the akc his dame is aili prinzessin von die meute and sire is milo der wolfrik


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## JuliaH (Jun 9, 2010)

There should be a puppy registration form someplace. It is not too expensive to register them, and a good idea to keep your dog's heritage if you can.

The mother is black and red, the father black. Sending you a pm though you may already have the information... 

Julia


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 9, 2010)

Yes i went with my brother to pick them out, his mother was a show dog and his dady was highly trained in protection and obediance.


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## K9SAR (Jun 9, 2010)

Bamafan4life said:


> Yes i went with my brother to pick them out, his mother was a show dog and his dady was highly trained in protection and obediance.



If his mother is listed as "red and black," and she was a show dog, then there's a pretty good chance she is what's considered a "West German show line" German Shepherd


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 9, 2010)

I searched both dam and sire and had no luck.

K9SAR, I understand what you are saying but that's not always the case. How do we know that both dogs were imported and that the sire was a PPD? This could be fun to find out more about the dogs but we need more information on the sire and dam. Do you have more and what do you have?


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## K9SAR (Jun 9, 2010)

Jerry L. Lyda said:


> K9SAR, I understand what you are saying but that's not always the case. How do we know that both dogs were imported and that the sire was a PPD? This could be fun to find out more about the dogs but we need more information on the sire and dam. Do you have more and what do you have?



That's why I said, "a pretty good chance" and not that "she is."  I also could not find any information on the sire or the dam, but then again, I don't have an AKC membership to look up the pedigrees for mom and dad.  I did, however, do a free dog lookup on the AKC site:

DN15360204   - Aili Prinzessin von die Meute 

DN11758306 - Milo der Wolfrik 

I think the first GSD I ever owned was 8 years old.  His owner sold him to me to "make a truck payment."  He was a good 40 lbs underweight and in rough shape.  Before I had met him, his owner (who still breeds GSDs) told me he was a "personal protection dog."  The only thing the dog knew how to do was sit on command.  Good thing I didn't buy him as a PPD.  Spent $400 on him and another $800 at the Vet.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 10, 2010)

i dont know why it says red she was not even the least bit reddish she was the colors of the dog in your pictures k9sar if i knew how to post pictures i would post one of her and the sire, and they told me he was trained and i beleave it because of the way he acted he stood beetween me and the door when we knocked on it never once taking his eyes off of me. then when the man and woman came out he was in beetween me and them. he never barked or nothing i had never felt the feeling that a animal could kill me like this dog. ive been through the Hood on foot and all them barking pitbulls running around and rottwielers and stuff never did feel to scared because i know there just going to get me on my legs. but that dog its silence and body language was just scary. he would let you pet him. but the owner said if she said one word that was in german he went into attack mode. the people where both northern and they said he had been trained in new england. ill see if i can figure out how to post pics and see if i can.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 10, 2010)

Im moving soon and will probly get anouther dog for this one to play with im thinking of getting anouther shepherd where do yall get your dogs?


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## K9SAR (Jun 10, 2010)

Bamafan4life said:


> i dont know why it says red she was not even the least bit reddish she was the colors of the dog in your pictures k9sar



Grimm's AKC registration says "black and tan;" however, Grimm's father is the same color and is listed as "black and red."  Grimm actually has reddish highlights that don't show up in the picture in my avatar because I lightened the picture  

As for how the dog acts....my GSD does the same thing (stands between me and a stranger when at our home, watches every single new person closely, etc.)  It's how GSDs are.  That's one of the reasons why they're such great dogs.  

I got Grimm from a breeder in TN, but she isn't breeding for another three years.  Jerry may be able to help you find another Shepherd though.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 10, 2010)

Yea i went to jerrys website he post some for sell but dont have anything at the moment. it will probly be late november december before im ready for one though. i dont wont to order one offline because i would like to meet the dogs before i select one. so anywhere in georgia alabama tennessee south carolina and parts of florida will be in distance.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 10, 2010)

K9SAR said:


> I think the first GSD I ever owned was 8 years old.  His owner sold him to me to "make a truck payment."  He was a good 40 lbs underweight and in rough shape.  Before I had met him, his owner (who still breeds GSDs) told me he was a "personal protection dog."  The only thing the dog knew how to do was sit on command.  Good thing I didn't buy him as a PPD.  Spent $400 on him and another $800 at the Vet.




Yea i think anybody who could afford the training or was able to train them themselves could come up with 400$ and be able to pay the vet.


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## K9SAR (Jun 10, 2010)

Bamafan4life said:


> Yea i think anybody who could afford the training or was able to train them themselves could come up with 400$ and be able to pay the vet.



You'd think, but according to her, "he was trained by the guy who owned him before me."



Bamafan4life said:


> Yea i went to jerrys website he post some for sell but dont have anything at the moment. it will probly be late november december before im ready for one though. i dont wont to order one offline because i would like to meet the dogs before i select one. so anywhere in georgia alabama tennessee south carolina and parts of florida will be in distance.



You still might want to PM him and ask for some assistance.  While he may not have anything at the moment, he can point you in the right direction.


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 10, 2010)

If all worked out right I should have pups the first week of July. My female, Reba von der Dornburg is breed to Ichillies von Whirling Thunder. You can see them on www.southernk9solutions.com . These pups should only go to experienced people. These dogs are from German working lines and will be tough dogs. Not mean dogs. We breed for workability and temperment. Let me know if I can help. Check out the www.pedigreedatabase.com see if you can find your dogs there. I looked and gave up. If you may know who their sires and dams are that may help. You can look my two up and trace all the way back to the first German Shepherd Dog. Cool website, lots of info.


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## K9SAR (Jun 10, 2010)

Neither one of bamafan's dogs (well...the sire and the dam) show up on the database.  

Jerry - I'd like to chit chat with you about your girl, Reba.  I was the final home of Ursel t'Palmaleinehof (Zico's dam.)  Ursel has a very interesting (and sad) story behind her and her trip once she was exported to the U.S. from Belgium.  I can definitely attest to the dogs behind Ichilles' and Reba's pedigrees as being pretty hard dogs.


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 10, 2010)

I sent you a pm with my number or you can get me through my website. Everyone is welcome to give me a call.

Yes, both Reba and Ichillies are both fantastic dogs. Both have been proven through trials. Both have been been put through the ringer, sort of speeking. They have been worked by some of the toughest decoys in the east coast. The dogs took all the pressure the decoys could give and the dogs wanted more. Yep, they are hard dogs. Pedigrees mean a lot at least you know what you expect to get. Call me let's talk.


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## JuliaH (Jun 10, 2010)

I am not a GSD person. My dogs are Brittanys (not the French but the good ole AKC ones) and German Shorthairs, but I have been reading this thread with interest 

Jerry, you said 





> Pedigrees mean a lot at least you know what you expect to get.


 
I used to raise Arabian horses, but I specialized in a smaller gene pool (Egyptians) and from there selected certain horses that I wanted to maximize the use of in my breeding farm. The study, the time, the work all paid off wonderfully as my last 2 babies were the best I had ever raised... 

Now, with that said, I certainly understand you have to have the entire package...conformation, ability in the animal to do what it has been bred to do, but that pedigree if handled well without losing sight of the other important factors, would allow me to know what I was going to get 

All that said to say that it is a lot the same in the dog world, though the gene pool is a lot larger and I have some interest in wondering if careful line breeding with outcrosses where necessary and wise will produce in my GSPs as well as it did in the horses 

Your opinion, and that of others "in the know" would be very interesting to me 

Julia


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 10, 2010)

This is just my opinion but I think you have to know what you want to get to begin with. In breeding you put a lot of thought and you have to look at what has been produced in the past and with what two produced it. What does each breeding pair bring to the table that you would like to see reproduced in your breeding. In all breedings you never get that all good stuff, you will get that bad stuff too. With the pedigree we know what has been produced before with the breeding pairs. All the thought in the world is not absolute. Just like every pup in the litter is not going to be just what you were looking for BUT one, two, or even three may be. Horses is so different as to how many you'll get in the litter. The chances of getting one good one is much lower.

Does any of this make sence? Fun though isn't it.


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## JuliaH (Jun 11, 2010)

It makes plenty sense, and it is fun 

Julia



Jerry L. Lyda said:


> This is just my opinion but I think you have to know what you want to get to begin with. In breeding you put a lot of thought and you have to look at what has been produced in the past and with what two produced it. What does each breeding pair bring to the table that you would like to see reproduced in your breeding. In all breedings you never get that all good stuff, you will get that bad stuff too. With the pedigree we know what has been produced before with the breeding pairs. All the thought in the world is not absolute. Just like every pup in the litter is not going to be just what you were looking for BUT one, two, or even three may be. Horses is so different as to how many you'll get in the litter. The chances of getting one good one is much lower.
> 
> Does any of this make sence? Fun though isn't it.


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## Bamafan4life (Jun 11, 2010)

Well if anybody remembers the original question his ear is about 2/3rds the way up and i never taped or glued them. so maybe it will stand up pretty soon. and Jerry  and k9 i got a question maybe you can answer ive googled it and never came up with anything. what is the german shepherd bred from? everybody says it has a bunch of wolf genes but what else is in the mix?


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## K9SAR (Jun 11, 2010)

Glad to hear that the ears are on the rise again 



Bamafan4life said:


> and Jerry  and k9 i got a question maybe you can answer ive googled it and never came up with anything. what is the german shepherd bred from? everybody says it has a bunch of wolf genes but what else is in the mix?



The best answer would be "herding dogs."  The dogs didn't have a set "breed name."  They were just referred to as "herding dogs."  

"The dog was called Hektor Linksrhein but was later named Horand v Grafeth by Von Stephanitz, who used the animal as the basis on which much future development would be made. Horand was greatly admired by many breeders who were quick to use him in their breeding programs. Not surprisingly, he became the dog that best exemplified the goals of early breeders."

Image from germanshepherds.com - Horand v. Grafeth


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## K9SAR (Jun 11, 2010)

JuliaH said:


> I used to raise Arabian horses, but I specialized in a smaller gene pool (Egyptians) and from there selected certain horses that I wanted to maximize the use of in my breeding farm. The study, the time, the work all paid off wonderfully as my last 2 babies were the best I had ever raised...



As in....the same Julia from El Masri?

As for the rest of the conversation on breedings, I have never bred a dog...period.  In the twenty years with owning and training the breed, I still feel as though I am nowhere near ready to venture into breeding.  That being said, besides the standard checking of the overall dog, the breeder, what the breeder DOES with the dogs, etc. I like to keep track of dogs.  I like to see what they produced with which female (as I'm pretty sure the "B" word would be censored here - lol) and like to keep track of results: what they have produced, any faults they may have produced (conformation or temperament,) etc.  

Then...make note or mark them off my list.  A breeder friend of mine (AmStaffs...not GSDs) said, "a good breeder has no problem looking at his own dogs, seeing the faults, taking responsibility, and not breeding the dog again in the future."  An example he gave was of a solid male of his that the first breeding with one female, the litter produced two puppies with "gay tail" (arched tails instead of straight tails.)  The second breeding resulted in 50% of the puppies in the litter with gay tail, and both females had never produced gay tail litters in the past.  He said, "great dog, but I had no problem neutering him due to producing gay tails, and 50% in the last litter was a little too high."


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## Jerry L. Lyda (Jun 11, 2010)

See we told you not to worry about the ears. LOL ;o)

Sorry no wolfs in  the begining. Dumb folks tried putting some in later and found that it produced dogs that were scared, wolf like, of humans.

Read this about the beginings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd_Dog


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## K9SAR (Jun 12, 2010)

Jerry L. Lyda said:


> Sorry no wolfs in  the begining. Dumb folks tried putting some in later and found that it produced dogs that were scared, wolf like, of humans.



Pretty sure that final breed (wolves and GSDs or at least the same herding stock of GSDs) exist today, but are generally only found in central Europe.  They are still skittish of humans, etc.


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