# Perspective on cranking issue D150



## David Parker (Jan 21, 2013)

Patient = Dodge D150 (318/5.2L) born around 1984.

Ailment = Turn key and one click from the starter.

Procedures =  
I originally had an issue with the starter turning the motor over and over but no spark.  Gas getting to the carb was never an issue.  I started replacing ignition system items like the distributor (cap and rotor as well), coil, plugs, and ballast resistor.  Eventually I could get it started but only about once every 20 or so attempts.  

So with the inconsistent success in starting the vehicle, I moved on to replacing the starter, relay switch, and various wires involved in the ignition system.  Checked and getting spark coming out of the coil now.  Battery is charged and grounded.  All the fuses in the dash were checked/replaced.

Prognosis = 
I can confirm there is sufficient voltage coming from the battery to the starter, but not turning over.  The lights on the dash are on and I hear the starter try to engage with one single click.  I suggest that the electricity is getting to the starter but beyond that somewhere in the wiring, something is not grounded and thus the circle is broken and no electrical flow exists to provide continuity for the starter to actually spin the drive.  Basically it is receiving the juice but when the volts reach the ungrounded segment, it returns nothing to the starter for a continuous flow of electricity.




So I am a tinkerer and have become very familiar with the vehicle and the problem.  If my prognosis is somewhat accurate, then I need to locate where in the wiring a ground is needed.  Other ideas are appreciated or just encouragement that I am not missing something or on the right track.


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## rayjay (Jan 21, 2013)

There should be a ground strap from the motor to the frame.  See if yours is missing or loose or badly corroded. If the negative cable from the batt is bolted to the frame this engine to frame ground strap needs to be pretty large. If the negative cable is bolted to the motor then the ground strap will be smaller.


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## David Parker (Jan 21, 2013)

From the battery, the negative bolts to a bracket mounted to the engine.   I'll run a patch from there to the frame to create the ground strap and see if anything changes.


and Thanks


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## 440Mopar (Jan 24, 2013)

ramchargercentral .com   if these guys cant come up with a solution it must be a chevy.


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## David Parker (Jan 28, 2013)

Yep, I grounded the frame to the engine to the battery and still same ole click.  The package didn't come with the ECU so it's a pretty straight forward system.  I'm wondering if I can clamp the line coming off the starter directly to the line going to the ignition coil and see if the starter drive will spin the fly wheel.  I've taken the starter off and tested it and it passes the Auto-zone testing.  Obliged on the link for the dodge experts.


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## 440Mopar (Jan 28, 2013)

just grap the small wire coming from the starter the end is plugged into the relay on the driver fender infront of the hood hindge. jump it to the positive on the batter it should turn the starter .if not check battery , if its good the starter is shot where you at i've got penty of parts and always looking to swap dodge stuff.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 28, 2013)

either you have a bad positive cable down to the starter, or the battery is so weak it can't turn it, if the starter is good. The idiots at Auto-zone couldn't find their butt crack with both hands in a dark room, so I wouldn't be trusting that diagnosis either.

If it is clicking, you are completing the circuit to the solenoid. The solenoid brings in the voltage to the starter. The contacts on the solenoid could be bad and not putting down enough voltage to properly turn the starter, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. 

Check, and double check the ground connections at the battery and on the motor then I would do the following, in this order.

1. Test the voltage across the battery terminals with no load. Should be at least 12.4 vdc.
2. test the voltage across the battery terminals when you are trying to start the truck, should be in the area 11.8vdc.
3. If you don't find the battery dropping out, the test the voltage on the battery side of the solenoid when trying to start the truck. should be 11.8vdc or so.
4. check the voltage on the starter side of the solenoid, should be same as on battery side of solenoid.
5. check the voltage at the starter, while trying to crank. Should be the same as on the starter side of the solenoid.
6. If you haven't found the voltage drop by now, it is more than likely a bad starter.


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## David Parker (Jan 31, 2013)

440Mopar said:


> just grap the small wire coming from the starter the end is plugged into the relay on the driver fender infront of the hood hindge. jump it to the positive on the batter it should turn the starter .if not check battery , if its good the starter is shot where you at i've got penty of parts and always looking to swap dodge stuff.



I'm in Augusta/Martinez.  I'm going to run the jumper to the battery and see if I can get the starter to spin while on  the truck.  I actually saw the drive spinning on the test at Autozone but I don't remember if it passed the "extend drive" part.  My battery shows 12.5-12.7 volts with no load so I believe there is enough battery for the job.





> either you have a bad positive cable down to the starter, or the battery is so weak it can't turn it, if the starter is good. The idiots at Auto-zone couldn't find their butt crack with both hands in a dark room, so I wouldn't be trusting that diagnosis either.
> 
> If it is clicking, you are completing the circuit to the solenoid. The solenoid brings in the voltage to the starter. The contacts on the solenoid could be bad and not putting down enough voltage to properly turn the starter, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
> 
> ...




I've replaced the positive cable from the battery.  I'm going to swap out the negative and terminal connector.  Then I'm going to bypass the Neutral Safety Switch and run the ground directly.  I have a hunch that something isn't grounded properly and the NSS is the only thing I really haven't paid attention to so far.  If nothing changes, I've still got the 6 steps to go through.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 31, 2013)

Funny...seems like the only thing not replaced is the battery. 

I'd have that tested while on the truck...or load tested.  Kinda sounds like the battery is bad.


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## David Parker (Jan 31, 2013)

Thing is, it was swapped with another battery that was good.  So I have two batteries and both work fine when connected to another vehicle (SUV).  Now this other vehicle has a v6 and maybe it's able to crank that versus cranking the v8.  I dunno but the batteries test good and work good and both are not getting the truck started.  You are right, the battery, ignition module, and NSS are the only items not replaced under the hood with respect to cranking the engine.  Heck, even the flywheel was replaced less than a year ago.  And just to confirm, I did wiggle my fingers around in there and it has all it's teeth at least in the area I was feelin.


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## Slug-Gunner (Jan 31, 2013)

Jeremy,
I'm a retired ASE-CMAT (50+ yrs) and live in South Augusta.  I specialized in electrical and carburation problems when I was 'active'.  PM me back with a contact phone number and we'll see what we can do....

John Lowe
AKA: "Slug-Gunner"


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## rjcruiser (Jan 31, 2013)

Jeremy Wade said:


> Thing is, it was swapped with another battery that was good.  So I have two batteries and both work fine when connected to another vehicle (SUV).  Now this other vehicle has a v6 and maybe it's able to crank that versus cranking the v8.  I dunno but the batteries test good and work good and both are not getting the truck started.  You are right, the battery, ignition module, and NSS are the only items not replaced under the hood with respect to cranking the engine.  Heck, even the flywheel was replaced less than a year ago.  And just to confirm, I did wiggle my fingers around in there and it has all it's teeth at least in the area I was feelin.




Gotcha.  Then it probably isn't the battery.  Sometimes, they can test good without a load on them.

Good luck in figuring it out.


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## Slug-Gunner (Feb 1, 2013)

*Something to Think About....*

What is the mileage on this engine?  Have you checked or considered that the engine may be 'locked-up'?  You are working with an almost 30 year old engine that uses a 'plastic-tipped' timing gear.... this 'plastic' gets brittle and chips/breaks off due to engine heat and 'time' as the engine gets older.  If you have over 150,000 miles on this engine, it is possible that the timing gear/chain has worn sufficiently for the timing chain to have 'jumped timing' enough for the engine TO NOT START.  Since this is an 'INTERFERENCE' type engine, IF THE TIMING HAS 'JUMPED TIMING' ENOUGH, THE PISTONS CAN HIT THE VALVES (when extended) AND LOCK THE ENGINE UP.  If this happens when the engine is running, it can bend valves and damage the piston crowns and rod bearings.

This is what happened to my '74 Dodge W-100 4WD Club Cab's 360 engine at 184,000 miles.  As I back-shifted while turning a corner near my home, the engine 'popped' and quit running. The timing chain had 'jumped timing' and bent 12 of the 16 valves when it happened.  Pieces of the 'plastic' from the timing gear teeth were found in the oil pan when I tore it down and rebuilt it (using ALL STEEL gears and a double row timing chain).  This truck now has in excess of 350,000 miles on it.

This engine rotates CLOCKWISE.  Pull the spark plugs and see if you can rotate the engine BY HAND using a socket wrench on the crankshaft pulley bolt in a CLOCKWISE DIRECTION.  It should rotate fairly easily with out much resistance.  IF IT IS DIFFICULT TO ROTATE.... DO NOT FORCE IT!!!!  (You can cause engine damage if you do.)  Then try to rotate it in a COUNTER-CLOCKWISE DIRECTION.  If it moves in that direction, then a piston is hitting a valve, which prevented the CLOCKWISE ROTATION.  If the engine won't rotate in either direction, IT IS SEIZED UP.

The reason for 'pulling the spark plugs' is to eliminate the possibility of HYDROSTATIC-LOCK in case fuel or coolant is in a cylinder.


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## David Parker (Feb 14, 2013)

Yep, I'm planning to get in there this weekend and wrap everything up.  I'll update on progress and the inevitable success story.  Unless I got bits of plastic in the oil pan and then I may be taking a crash course in tearing down the engine.


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## David Parker (Mar 12, 2013)

Got some more good staring time in this weekend.  Was able to put back a good many beers in the process.  In between all that I replaced the neg battery cable and cleaned off the areas where wires were grounding to the engine and frame.  I tried to jump here and there and make something happen but no luck.  Slug-Gunner was nice enough to stop by and give me a hand and through some unorthodox tshooting, he was able to eliminate the battery and starter.  So I've got a strategy for getting it to actually crank now.  The current problem is no fire.

There is a little tab/post near the distributor but mounted to the top of the engine that a wire runs to, appears to be a round fixture that just screws right down into the block.  I was thinking maybe it was the oil pressure sensor but then I identified that (3 posts on the sensor).  I traced the wire that was connected to it and appears I grounded it to the firewall.  I can't remember my logic in doing this, I would think I was just replacing what I saw to begin with, but maybe not.  Maybe i should remove it from the firewall and jump it to the positive battery lead and see if I get fire.  Any thoughts?


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 12, 2013)

Looks like your truck's ballast resistor only has two wires. Maybe someone else will tell if it's safe to jump it out. Just a possibility I thought of.
Picture of yours:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...allory_17350032-p?searchTerm=ballast+resistor


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 12, 2013)

Man I should have read your 1st post. I see you've changed the ballast resistor already. I wonder if in all your testing that something might have gone bad for some reason. Your truck has a regular solenoid. You should be able to turn on the ignition and jump the two big post of the solenoid. If you tried that and replaced the hot wire to the starter, It could be engine ground related. 
good luck.


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## David Parker (Mar 13, 2013)

I went for a beer at the Pizza Joint after work yesterday and they have that dude that welds stuff behind the building and there was an '84 D150 backed into his shop.  i asked if I could survey the wiring in his and as we talked the owner mentioned something that didn't sink in until I had a pint.  Then it hit me and I immediately stood up, paid my tab, went home and created a jump from the starter post on the relay switch to the positive post on the battery.  Now I was just trying to get a spark, so I had the plug out and was touching it to the block and when I touched the battery post EUREKA!   She was running.  Next is to re-wrap the mess and get everything tucked in nice.  Then, I'm sanding and priming it black.  I need to get it ready for the festie season so I can haul my grill around for vending.  Thanks for all the input, it really did keep me from getting too frustrated and I don't think I would have got it straight without the help.


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