# ML Cleaning... what am I doing wrong?!



## dertiedawg (Aug 24, 2010)

I recently acquired a CVA Mountain Stalker and put about 20 shots through it. Cleaned the barrel with hot soapy water while running a copper brush through it. Then rinsed it and ran a jag through it with pads soaked in a cleaning solution (from T/C at Wally's) until it comes out clean. Then ran a dry pad through it. Looked down the barrel and it shines like a new penny. Thought I would run the copper brush through it one more time just for good measure and when I ran the cleaning pad through, it came out black as if I never even cleaned it. Ran a few cleaning pads through till it came out clean and did the whole process again. Everytime I run the copper brush through it then a pad, the pad would come out black. I did it a bunch of times thinking it would eventually come out clean but had no success. I even soaked the barrel in T/C barrel cleaning foam for about 3 hours. Can the barrel really be that dirty even though it shines like it's clean or can the copper brush be leaving some kind of residue. Haven't had this issue with any of my centerfire rifles.


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## FrontierGander (Aug 24, 2010)

Most likely the brass brush is just causing a reaction to make it seem dirty. I rarely ever use a brass brush any more.

Just use your cleaning jag and pump the hot soapy water through it. 

This may help,
Cleaning your side lock muzzleloader


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## 7Mag Hunter (Aug 25, 2010)

FrontierGander said:


> Most likely the brass brush is just causing a reaction to make it seem dirty. I rarely ever use a brass brush any more.
> 
> Just use your cleaning jag and pump the hot soapy water through it.
> 
> ...



Dert, this is how I have cleaned my Hawken for 20 yrs...
Hot soapy water with mop and brush/mop/brush/mop
then rinse..hair dryer, rags (tshirt strips inside barrel)
to dry then Bore Butter on mop to lube inside barrel and 
good coating of butter outside
of barrel.......Hair dryer again to completely melt butter
to permeate the metal inside and out....
I also remove the bolster before cleaning....(Bolster is the
plug you screw the nipple into.)


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## fishtail (Aug 25, 2010)

I use a variation of the last two posts.
Remove the nipple, drop it in a 5 gallon bucket of hot soapy water (dish soap), brush, mop, then brush, then mop the barrel using the bucket, alternating back and forth (with the nipple end in the bottom of the bucket) till I'm happy with the minimal dirtiness of the bore. Clean rinse and mop with the hottest water you can handle, let dry or air hose the moisture out. Pick clean the nipple. Install the nipple, spray barrel and cleaned parts all with any type oil  to keep it from rusting, air blow the barrel and nipple.
Ended up changing the bolster plug to a stainless Allen head screw for easier removal.


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## tv_racin_fan (Aug 27, 2010)

Dertie, give me a shout and I'll come by and show you my method. Plain ole water and olive oil/lard will work just fine sir.

I have found that if I clean my rifle once and leave it for over a month that I get a bit of rust in the bore. So I clean mine generally three times over a week. I think what happens when you shoot you kinda burnish in some fouling into the pores of the steel. You can clean and get a clean patch BUT when you oil the bore that oil will leech that fouling out of the pores.


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## dertiedawg (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the replies! Will give it a good cleaning tonight. It shot well at the bear camp so I guess it was clean. TV... have you made it to the range! I went Saturday before last with my dad last minute. We got up early and ran to Wilson.


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## tv_racin_fan (Aug 30, 2010)

Actually no sir I have not made it to Wilson Shoals. I intend to go this week...

I was all set to go and my son decided he didn't want to for some reason. OK actually he didn't want to do something else that he had to do before we could go to the range...

Oh I stopped at Forsyth CO Pawn today. Can ypou explain why they carry primers and powder and NO projectiles?? I picked up a 1000 primers and ordered an 8lb can of powder.... both right at Midway prices... I asked about projectiles too. 400 Jewelry n Loan has some projectiles but nothing like I want in the numbers I want. I almost got a 100 last trip of something close. Guess I'll do the Midway thing, speaking of projectiles I ordered bout 1500 Berry's Bullets last week.. Now I can go ahead and load up some 9mm n 357 while I wait on powder n projectiles for 30-06..


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## dertiedawg (Aug 31, 2010)

tv_racin_fan said:


> Actually no sir I have not made it to Wilson Shoals. I intend to go this week...
> 
> I was all set to go and my son decided he didn't want to for some reason. OK actually he didn't want to do something else that he had to do before we could go to the range...
> 
> Oh I stopped at Forsyth CO Pawn today. Can ypou explain why they carry primers and powder and NO projectiles?? I picked up a 1000 primers and ordered an 8lb can of powder.... both right at Midway prices... I asked about projectiles too. 400 Jewelry n Loan has some projectiles but nothing like I want in the numbers I want. I almost got a 100 last trip of something close. Guess I'll do the Midway thing, speaking of projectiles I ordered bout 1500 Berry's Bullets last week.. Now I can go ahead and load up some 9mm n 357 while I wait on powder n projectiles for 30-06..



I couldn't splain that. I asked why they didn't have much reloading supplies and they said they didn't have the room for it. I stopped by Bass Pro last week and they had the Lee Challenger kit for $120. Can get it cheaper on Midway... I think for $99 but then I think you have to pay shipping so it might end up cheaper at Bass Pro.


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## Marlin_444 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey Buddy - 

Glad that CVA is getting the respect it deserves!!!  

Can't wait to see leaning against the Bear/Pig/Deer you'll take this season...

See you in the woods...

Ron


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## tv_racin_fan (Aug 31, 2010)

Dertie I think I have the explanation sir.

They don't have room is indeed part of it but then I also don't think they have the demand either. 

Reloaders who don't stock up in bulk on powder and primers will buy from them because they can buy small quantities and not have the hazmat charge like they would from Midway etc so their primer and powder prices don't have to be that good. Reloaders who use the same powder and primers dont use the same projectiles so they might could carry a few powders and a few primers but they would of neccessity have to carry a larger selection of projectiles and their price would have to be pretty close to Midway or they wont make the sell anyway. They do have shotgun wads and some shot (or did anyway).

I was seriously shocked that the powder price was that good. Dunno if that is the normal price or they gave me a deal because they see me alot.


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## FireHunter174 (Sep 13, 2010)

Had the same exact gun and used it for years.  I always boiled water and added soap in a pot.  Use another pot in the sink to catch with.  Put the breech end in the catch pot and hold the muzzle end with a pair of pliers(wrab some cloth around barrel to prevent scratching.)  pour the boiling soapy water down barrel and then use cleaning jag with patch and pump it in and out with multiple patches until satisfied with cleaning.  Make sure nipple and bolster are removed before starting this.  Then run a couple dry patches.  Afterward, the barrel is still so hot I would just prop the barrel muzzle down on a rag or towel and it would dry naturally.  After cooling, I would useT/C bore butter down the barrel and litely oil the outside.  Never had a problem.


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## Butterbean79 (Sep 13, 2010)

What is the easiest meathod for cleaning a modern break open barrel muzzlel loader with removable breach plug??? I have a 2009 CVA Optima Magnum that I just bought..My first muzzel loader so I have little experiance with them but am looking foward to hunting with it..


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## FireHunter174 (Sep 14, 2010)

About the same way as my earlier post.  Except just put the pot of boiling soapy water in the sink, stick the breech end(plug removed) down in the pot and work the jag with a patch back and forth.  Take out and run a couple dry patches.  I also like to run a cotton bore swab down the barrel after satisfied with the cleaning.  Before I put the breech plug back in, I like to put a little bore butter on the threads.  I believe this helps prevent seizing.


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## kvistads (Sep 14, 2010)

You folks kill me with the soap and water routine.  Way too much trouble.  I've never seen anyone that knows anything about a muzzle loader use a brush.  You don't need a brush.  Use the correct caliber jag and patch combo with modern bore cleaner or whatever concoction you have like moose milk.  I use 1 part Simple Green with 2 parts tap water.  Have been for the last 20 years.  No need to put in bucket or bath tub.  Good luck.


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## FireHunter174 (Sep 15, 2010)

kvistads said:


> You folks kill me with the soap and water routine.  Way too much trouble.  I've never seen anyone that knows anything about a muzzle loader use a brush.  You don't need a brush.  Use the correct caliber jag and patch combo with modern bore cleaner or whatever concoction you have like moose milk.  I use 1 part Simple Green with 2 parts tap water.  Have been for the last 20 years.  No need to put in bucket or bath tub.  Good luck.



No use in putting down someone else's method of cleaning a muzzleloader. I'm just saying that it's been working for me for the last 18 years(you got 2 on me). That's just how I do it.

BTW- Did you take that picture in your avatar from the Yankee side?
Just kidding....We're all hunters on here and we should be on the same side.  It's just fun every once in a while to stir the pot


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## RUTTNBUCK (Sep 15, 2010)

kvistads said:


> You folks kill me with the soap and water routine.  Way too much trouble.  I've never seen anyone that knows anything about a muzzle loader use a brush.  You don't need a brush.  Use the correct caliber jag and patch combo with modern bore cleaner or whatever concoction you have like moose milk.  I use 1 part Simple Green with 2 parts tap water.  Have been for the last 20 years.  No need to put in bucket or bath tub.  Good luck.


Moose milk!!......................Half Ballistol Half water. Works better than anything else I've tried!! It is slightly alkaline to neutralize acids

http://www.ballistol.com/


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## kvistads (Sep 15, 2010)

Firehunter & Rutnbuck:

No Yank in me!  Just kidding.  No seriously, although I'm now located in S. GA, my roots go deep in N. GA - mainly Rabun County.  I am the 2nd LT. CMNDR of Camp 693, The Yancy Independents - Worth County, Sons of Confederate Veterans.  I have many Confederate decedents which served and died honorably for the Confederacy.  No offense taken at all.

Regarding the boiling water and soap, it'll work no doubt.  Just a lot of trouble for me.  If it doesn't bother you - go for it.  I can shoot several shots in a row, run a patch with simple green down the bore and be good for another three.  If shooting a musket, I never clean until I'm finished shooting.  Use Minie' ball with lots of bore butter packed in the grooves and cavity.  Muskets seem to shoot better the dirtier they are.

Ballistol is good stuff if you can get past the smell.  It will mix/dilute in water and is good for patch lube on round  balls.  After cleaning, I like to soak a patch in straight Ballistol and lower my ram rod/jag combo down to the breech and leave sitting until next use.  It keeps any fouling left in the bore soft so it is easier to clean on the next shoot.  3 in 1 oil works just as good only more difficult to clean out since it isn't water soluble.

All in all, you'll probably find three or four dozen different concoctions used for cleaning.  They'll all work, some better than others.  The main point to remember about black powder is that it seems to attract moisture.  My understanding is that the powder itself is not corrosive - just the moisture that it draws.  Unless you're shooting those things like Power Belts with an exposed copper jacket, you probably don't need to used a copper solvent or brush.  Then again, the Power Belt may ride solely on its plastic belt.  I don't use such modern conveniences.  Enjoying your comments.  Good Luck.


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## FireHunter174 (Sep 16, 2010)

I appreciate your input Kvistads, and your sense of humor.  A lot of people in this forum can't take a joke
Hope you bust one come smoke pole season.


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## dertiedawg (Sep 21, 2010)

kvistads said:


> You folks kill me with the soap and water routine.  Way too much trouble.  I've never seen anyone that knows anything about a muzzle loader use a brush.  You don't need a brush.



That's why I am asking what I am asking... because I don't "know".  The brush came with the T/C ML kit I purchased.  Thought maybe the plastic from the sabot wasn't coming out very easily and the more I scrubbed it the more it would come out.  Up until 9 years ago, I was 100% Yankee. After about 9 years in GA... that's almost 25% of my life!!! Does that make me 25% Southern?!?! Been hangin out with some good ole Georgia boys at bear camp for the last 4 years in a row... that's gotta count for something. I think most of us even consider each other as friends... I know I do!! Even got some "Southern" friends near home. I think those Southern boys that know me realize some Yanks are OK!!! Nah... maybe not!!


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## kvistads (Sep 22, 2010)

dertiedawg:

I can't comment on the percentage of "Yank" you have in ya - only you would know.  All I can say is in order to belong to the "Sons of Confederate Veterans" you must be able to prove you have a Confederate Veteran in your lineage who served "Honorably" in the Confederate States of America.  They used to only accept direct bloodline descendants, but now I think they'll accept indirect lineage descendants now.

Okay, about the brush included in the kit.  Perhaps they felt it was needed due to the newer style muzzle loaders (in-lines) with fast twist rates that was intended for sabots and copper jacketed conical s like I previously mentioned - Powerbelts.  I really don't know.  I can only go by the reason they are used in modern firearms.  If you have any doubt, use it.  I don't have any need for a brush on any of my muzzle loaders - and I have around eight not counting three pistols.  It's no rocket science to clean a muzzle loader and many folks get discouraged from the beginning by the methods most of the manufacturer's give for cleaning instructions.  It's just not that big of a deal.  Yes, you do need to clean it shortly after use.  I clean mine before I leave the range or woods.  Shoot me an e-mail if I can be of any more help.


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## cathooker (Oct 1, 2010)

kvistads said:


> Firehunter & Rutnbuck:
> 
> No Yank in me!  Just kidding.  No seriously, although I'm now located in S. GA, my roots go deep in N. GA - mainly Rabun County.  I am the 2nd LT. CMNDR of Camp 693, The Yancy Independents - Worth County, Sons of Confederate Veterans.  I have many Confederate decedents which served and died honorably for the Confederacy.  No offense taken at all.



Camp 507, Chattooga County SCV here. I had two great great great grandfathers fight for the South. One was with the 7th Alabama Cavalry and one was with the 19th Alabama Infantry. The infantry one died of his wounds on Aug. 20, 1863.

I clean my ML after every session. I use BH209 powder and I clean the barrel with a couple of patches soaked in T/C blackpowder solvent. Then I run dry patches down it until they no longer show any black. A light coating of Borebutter down the tube and a light coating of gun oil on the outside and she is good to go. I soak the breech plug in the solvent and the powder residue comes right off. I only use a brush to clean the breech plug threads in the barrel.


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## kvistads (Oct 2, 2010)

Cathooker:

Nice to meet you Compatriot.  I joined under my Great, Great Grandfather Issac N. Kerby of Co.K, 1st SC Artillery.  If I was to start identifying all of my Confederate ancestors here, it might take a while.  Thanks for your support of the SCV.

Deo Vindice!


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## Kawaliga (Oct 3, 2010)

Alexander H. Stevens Camp 78, Americus, Ga. Ancestor fought with the 44th Georgia Vol. Inf. out of Clark County Ga.


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