# Exhaust fan and bathroom light- One switch...



## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Just bought a new house.  

Every bathroom (plus exhaust fan over shower) uses one switch to control both the exhaust fan and the light. 

This is annoying.... especially for this level of home.  I want it changed.

I have talked to a couple of electricians, whose first reactions were "need to get in the attic".  The problem is that will only work for 3 out of the 5 switches.  

Then, I looked on youtube and saw a electrician changing the single switch to a double switch without adding additional wiring.  This would be ideal, but I don't know if I'm missing something.  

The picture attached shows one of the switches.  The only thing connected to the other side is the ground wire. 

I am assuming that the red wire is the hot wire and the two black wires (stuck into the back of the switch) are the lead wires to the fan and light. 

Do you think that the youtube example is an option?  If I can find the video I saw the other day, I'll post it. 

Thanks!


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Here's the video (yeah, it is long):


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 26, 2014)

Are the fan and light one unit?


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## Ole' Dad (Sep 26, 2014)

*Wiring problem*

Looks to me that the Black wire at the bottom of the switch (beside the ground wire) is your power source. The red and black that are located at the other end of the switch are your switch legs. I don't see any reason to have to get into the attic (but I cant be positive without seeing how it is wired). Is the light and fan one unit? Light/Fan Combo? If that is the case then you definitely don't have to access the attic. You can add a switch and use the existing wiring no problem. You would use the power wire to fire both switches and separate the switch legs one to each switch. You may have to add a jumper ( a short piece of wire) from the power wire of one switch over to the power wire of the other switch so that they both have fire, another option is to take two short pieces of wire and wire nut them to the existing power wire leaving you with two new power wires to fire both switches. If adding another single pole switch like the one you have pictured, this is how I would do it. Also if your adding another of these same type switches you will have to cut the sheet rock and add a bigger box. You may want to purchase a double switch where one switch is positioned over the other, looks somewhat like a recepticle, and not have to add a bigger box and cut sheet rock.. Your preference. Hope this helps!


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

shakey gizzard said:


> Are the fan and light one unit?



No... in all cases, they are 2 separate units.


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Ole' Dad said:


> Looks to me that the Black wire at the bottom of the switch (beside the ground wire) is your power source. The red and black that are located at the other end of the switch are your switch legs. I don't see any reason to have to get into the attic (but I cant be positive without seeing how it is wired). Is the light and fan one unit? Light/Fan Combo? If that is the case then you definitely don't have to access the attic. You can add a switch and use the existing wiring no problem. You would use the power wire to fire both switches and separate the switch legs one to each switch. You may have to add a jumper ( a short piece of wire) from the power wire of one switch over to the power wire of the other switch so that they both have fire, another option is to take two short pieces of wire and wire nut them to the existing power wire leaving you with two new power wires to fire both switches. If adding another single pole switch like the one you have pictured, this is how I would do it. Also if your adding another of these same type switches you will have to cut the sheet rock and add a bigger box. You may want to purchase a double switch where one switch is positioned over the other, looks somewhat like a recepticle, and not have to add a bigger box and cut sheet rock.. Your preference. Hope this helps!



Thanks!

I don't know if you watched the video, but he says the switch he is using as a replacement has a "breaker" in it... wouldn't that do the same thing as the "jumper"?


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## Ole' Dad (Sep 26, 2014)

I skimmed through the video and didn't notice the "breaker" in the video, but I could have missed it. Notice how he took the one power wire and connected it to two more wires leaving him two new power wires, one for each switch? Doing it that way is perfectly fine. Another way to do this is using what I call a "jumper", and it is no more than taking the single power wire that you currently have and instead of connecting it with two new pieces of wire to make a power wire for each switch, you would hook it to your switch and add another piece of wire hooking it to the same screw as the original power wire and "jumping" the power to the second switch so that both switches have power. I may not be very good with my directions and in that case just disregard this way of carrying power to both switches, and go with the way he shows on the video. Both ways work perfectly fine. One way just eliminates the use of a wire nut, that's all. Sorry to confuse you. Hope I helped, and Good Luck!


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Ole' Dad said:


> I skimmed through the video and didn't notice the "breaker" in the video, but I could have missed it. Notice how he took the one power wire and connected it to two more wires leaving him two new power wires, one for each switch? Doing it that way is perfectly fine. Another way to do this is using what I call a "jumper", and it is no more than taking the single power wire that you currently have and instead of connecting it with two new pieces of wire to make a power wire for each switch, you would hook it to your switch and add another piece of wire hooking it to the same screw as the original power wire and "jumping" the power to the second switch so that both switches have power. I may not be very good with my directions and in that case just disregard this way of carrying power to both switches, and go with the way he shows on the video. Both ways work perfectly fine. One way just eliminates the use of a wire nut, that's all. Sorry to confuse you. Hope I helped, and Good Luck!



No confusion.. makes perfect sense. 

Thanks again for your help.


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Ole' Dad said:


> I skimmed through the video and didn't notice the "breaker" in the video, but I could have missed it. Notice how he took the one power wire and connected it to two more wires leaving him two new power wires, one for each switch? Doing it that way is perfectly fine. Another way to do this is using what I call a "jumper", and it is no more than taking the single power wire that you currently have and instead of connecting it with two new pieces of wire to make a power wire for each switch, you would hook it to your switch and add another piece of wire hooking it to the same screw as the original power wire and "jumping" the power to the second switch so that both switches have power. I may not be very good with my directions and in that case just disregard this way of carrying power to both switches, and go with the way he shows on the video. Both ways work perfectly fine. One way just eliminates the use of a wire nut, that's all. Sorry to confuse you. Hope I helped, and Good Luck!



Just looked at the video again... I think I posted the wrong one!


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## havin_fun_huntin (Sep 26, 2014)

There are various options here.  The red and black (left in picture)  could be power feeding into the switch and power going somewhere else. If that is the case you only have one black wire to work with (switch leg).  If that is infact the case you will, for sure, have to climb into the attic and run new wires and install a stack switch or a 2 gang old work box (cut in box).  Just wanna add this in, tho it is code, most of the time wires stabbed into the back of a device become problematic.  The "spring" gets weak and causes them to short due to heating and cooling over time.  
If the red and the black are in fact switch legs, I would tie them together with a wire nut and run a single wire to the screw.


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## BriarPatch99 (Sep 26, 2014)

In the photo who ever wired it uses the push in connections for the two black wires ... the bottom black wire is the supply line ... the red wire probably goes to the fan ... trip the breaker remove the red wire .... turn breaker back on and flip the switch ... which ever comes on is the top black wire(should be the light) ... 

To add a switch you can add a double switch which would fit the same box or you will have to add another box ... if you add another box ... remove the Red wire and place it on the top lug just as it is now .... add a jumper by putting a black wire on the bottom of the original switch( long enough to reach over to the lug on the new(added) switch ... you would need a ground jumper also over to the new switch...


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## Sargent (Sep 26, 2014)

Thanks, everybody.


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## havin_fun_huntin (Sep 26, 2014)

http://www.legrand.us/search.aspx?q=690wg

This would be the type of switch.  Pass and Seymour 690wg.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 26, 2014)

It really depends on how they are wired. Are both switch legs pulled into the box wit h a single switch? If so, you are in luck and can purchase a stack switch, wires easily.

If not, and the fan comes off the light in the ceiling, you'll probably need an electrician.


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## ryanh487 (Sep 26, 2014)

Based on my very limited experience with home wiring (a few fixture/switch installations and replacements), I would say it appears that your light and fan are wired in series, and then to the switch.  I.E. Fan - Light - Switch instead of Fan - Switch, Light - switch.  If that's the case, that's why the electricians said they would need to get into the attic--they would need to run the wires from one of the fixtures down to the new switch instead of being wired to the other fixture.

But it would be easy to test by undoing one of the top wires and turning the switch on.  That will tell you whether the red and black top wires go to one or both fixtures.


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## Wild Turkey (Sep 26, 2014)

The top red and black are power out to light and fan. Firgure out which is which. Im guessing red fan.
A double sideways switch will work in same box.


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 26, 2014)

Sargent said:


> Just bought a new house.
> 
> Every bathroom (plus exhaust fan over shower) uses one switch to control both the exhaust fan and the light.
> 
> ...



I see a white/neutral wire tucked away in the box. That would indicate that the switch is made up by breaking the Black/Hot wire.   The red wire throws me though. But most times Fan/light combos have a single make up box in the fixture and the fan plugs into the box inside the fixture.  

Is this a switch to a combo or separate exhaust fan and light fixtures?  If it is a combo and not on  separate switches I don't know what the Red wire would do. You only need one hot leg in that scenario.


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## CHANDLECTRIC (Sep 26, 2014)

You may be in luck , but you need to test the red and black wire , you need a stack switch which comes with a jumper and you can still use your single gang wall box. If the 3 conductor wire goes to the light-fan combo , red is usually fan and black is light.
Good Luck!


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 26, 2014)

ryanh487 said:


> Based on my very limited experience with home wiring (a few fixture/switch installations and replacements), I would say it appears that your light and fan are wired in series, and then to the switch.  I.E. Fan - Light - Switch instead of Fan - Switch, Light - switch.  If that's the case, that's why the electricians said they would need to get into the attic--they would need to run the wires from one of the fixtures down to the new switch instead of being wired to the other fixture.
> 
> But it would be easy to test by undoing one of the top wires and turning the switch on.  That will tell you whether the red and black top wires go to one or both fixtures.



they are wired in parallel.  If they were wired in series, the wattage of the light would vary the speed of the fan.  In other words, the light bulb would act as a limiting resistor and not allow the fan to run at full speed.


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## swampstalker24 (Sep 26, 2014)

Wild Turkey said:


> The top red and black are power out to light and fan. Firgure out which is which. Im guessing red fan.
> A double sideways switch will work in same box.




Yea, i'd put money on that one.....

I did electrical work for a few years and was taught that when your cutting in a switch, you always put the switch legs on top, and the feed on bottom.... that way if there was ever a need to make modifications such as the one in the OP, the electrician would know which wire was which...

I cant recall any situation where I would have had two hots coming into a switch....


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 27, 2014)

CHANDLECTRIC said:


> You may be in luck , but you need to test the red and black wire , you need a stack switch which comes with a jumper and you can still use your single gang wall box. If the 3 conductor wire goes to the light-fan combo , red is usually fan and black is light.
> Good Luck!



No doubt about that.  But why would they run the red wire from the same switch to a Combo.  In the combos you don't need to hots.  Guess the electrician was just covering himself. But then why run the red wire hot to the ceiling box and not cap both ends so you wouldn't have a loose hot wire in the box.

I am no professional electrician but I have done a fair amount wiring.  I would like to hear a logical reason for running a second hot from a single switch with out connecting it to the fan.  Just me.


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## Doug B. (Sep 28, 2014)

jimbo4116 said:


> No doubt about that.  But why would they run the red wire from the same switch to a Combo.  In the combos you don't need to hots.  Guess the electrician was just covering himself. But then why run the red wire hot to the ceiling box and not cap both ends so you wouldn't have a loose hot wire in the box.
> 
> I am no professional electrician but I have done a fair amount wiring.  I would like to hear a logical reason for running a second hot from a single switch with out connecting it to the fan.  Just me.



The red and black wire going to the combo is so you will have the option to have a separate switches, one for the light, and one for the fan which is what the OP is wanting to do.

Since he did state that they were all separate units, then the easiest way to tell what is going on would be to look in the junction box on each unit. If the first unit in line had both red and black wire from the switch with wires going on to the second unit, then he is in business.


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 28, 2014)

Doug B. said:


> The red and black wire going to the combo is so you will have the option to have a separate switches, one for the light, and one for the fan which is what the OP is wanting to do.
> 
> Since he did state that they were all separate units, then the easiest way to tell what is going on would be to look in the junction box on each unit. If the first unit in line had both red and black wire from the switch with wires going on to the second unit, then he is in business.



And that is why you should read all the posts.  Didn't see the one say all were separate.


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## Sargent (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks everyone.

The red wire went to the light, the black went to the fan.

The other black was hot. 

It took me 2 tries to get it right. 

1 down, 4 to go.

Thanks a bunch for everyone's input.


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