# Big bear poaching bust?



## pnome

Ya'll see this?

http://www.georgiawildlife.com/node/3220



> State and federal wildlife officials in North Carolina and Georgia announced an undercover operation today that involved about 80 wildlife violators and some 980 violations.
> 
> *Primary violations documented by Operation Something Bruin stem from illegal bear hunting* but include an array of state wildlife and game law charges. Some suspects could also face federal charges.



Anyone know where in Georgia this was going down?  Wondering if they busted anyone near where I hunt.


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## MudDucker

This is going on in Northeast Georgia and in North Carolina.  Both state agencies and the feds were involved.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-...d-with-bear-poaching-more-arrests-expe/nWTdT/


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## ALPHAMAX

3 charged in rabun county-lookin for others


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## GA DAWG

Even with all the poaching. The population has exploded beyond control. Be bad when they go to starving to death.


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## tree cutter 08

i cant tell any bears have went missing. i wonder if they have came up with a number yet?


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## jigman29

I know a couple of the guys that were arrested.From what im hearing it is a huge bust and going to cover several states.I read on a nother site today they are expecting around 90 arrests.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Saw the report Wed. evening on metro TV news. Sounds like a big poaching ring going back to 2009 & now having 80 arrest warrants for people with 980 violations.  Good job by Georgia & North Carolina officers catching these law breakers.  



http://www.11alive.com/news/article/278717/40/Wildlife-officers-charge-80-with-bear-poaching 

*Wildlife officers charge 80 with bear poaching*

11:35 PM, Feb 20, 2013 


Video Time:  1:05 

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## Dallen92

Supposed to arrest 80 for around 960 violations.  Supposedly arrested close to 40 yesterday and will continue to make the arrests in next few days. Of the 80 only 8 were supposed to be from GA and rest from NC in the western counties.


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## Marlin_444

Guess they (Mr. Green Jeans) know we're not draggin any out Joe...  Hah!


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## WELLS8230

Wow! Who eats bear meat?


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## northgeorgiasportsman

WELLS8230 said:


> Wow! Who eats bear meat?



Folks that know how to cook it.


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## j_seph

WELLS8230 said:


> Wow! Who eats bear meat?


 


northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Folks that know how to cook it.


 Can be some fine eating!


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## Steven Farr

I haven't seen a dent in the population.  Aggravating things are everywhere


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## northgeorgiasportsman

Steven Farr said:


> I haven't seen a dent in the population.  Aggravating things are everywhere



I think the majority of the arrests and violations are going to come from Clay, Macon, and probably Haywood counties in NC.


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## pnome

Marlin_444 said:


> Guess they (Mr. Green Jeans) know we're not draggin any out Joe...  Hah!



Yeah, I'm sure they arn't worried about us.

But I wonder if they got those guys who were baiting near camp.   I know Dana said one of those guys was guiding folks on the NF and baiting for them.


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## GA DAWG

I've seen nothing. Heard nothing. Know nothing.


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## siberian1

Glad they are shutting these guys down!!  Scum of the earth doesnt even describe them!!


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## pinky88

siberian1 said:


> Glad they are shutting these guys down!!  Scum of the earth doesnt even describe them!!



I don't understand why these guys are considered scum. Who knows who will be next to get caught. Every picture you see on this fourm has a pile of corn out for deer and we all know it's illegal in north ga. If mr green jeans can watch these guys for years, I wonder how pictures of deer and turkeys they have with corn scattered everywhere in their files?


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## Aztec

I'm here in western nc where this is going on right now.  Wildlife law enforcement everywhere.  Today I saw state, federal, ever Georgia law enforcement in NC.  Charges range from holding bear in captivity without permit, hunting on national park, selling bear parts, violation of the lacey act, night hunting bear and deer, just to name a few.  This a major event in our county.


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## Spook

*Seems some members need to go elsewhere.*

For you folks who justify the poachers and think they are just lazy hunters, you are wrong.
 That is not sport, these are the same people that break into your truck at the boat ramp, take your deer stand, litter, hunt under the influence and have zero respect for you and your family. In the woods, at the lake, or anywhere else you encounter them. Also, Federal Crime, they will face local and federal charges. Get off this site if you think they did no wrong. Mark.....Woody's member since Woody was here.


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## GA DAWG

Im a Woodys member since the start. What's that prove?


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## LIB MR ducks

*The details are out...*

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-...obe-snares-90poaching-machine-others-i/nWXQd/

8 Suspects and 140 charges in Georgia.


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## The mtn man

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> I think the majority of the arrests and violations are going to come from Clay, Macon, and probably Haywood counties in NC.



Hmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!  too many rules


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## greg_n_clayton

Spook said:


> For you folks who justify the poachers and think they are just lazy hunters, you are wrong.
> That is not sport, these are the same people that break into your truck at the boat ramp, take your deer stand, litter, hunt under the influence and have zero respect for you and your family. In the woods, at the lake, or anywhere else you encounter them. Also, Federal Crime, they will face local and federal charges. Get off this site if you think they did no wrong. Mark.....Woody's member since Woody was here.



WOW !!


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## Doug B.

siberian1 said:


> Glad they are shutting these guys down!!  Scum of the earth doesnt even describe them!!





Spook said:


> For you folks who justify the poachers and think they are just lazy hunters, you are wrong.
> That is not sport, these are the same people that break into your truck at the boat ramp, take your deer stand, litter, hunt under the influence and have zero respect for you and your family. In the woods, at the lake, or anywhere else you encounter them. Also, Federal Crime, they will face local and federal charges. Get off this site if you think they did no wrong. Mark.....Woody's member since Woody was here.



I am not trying to justify poaching, but I actually know four of those men. I can guarantee you they will not break into anything that you have got. Neither will they steal anything of yours, or litter, and they don't even drink. I have never seen or heard of them treating anyone with anything but utmost respect.

Do I think they did wrong? Yes. Do I think there should be a consequence for anybodys action that does wrong? Yes. Should we get on a public forum and make up false accusations and run them down because they did wrong? 

I sure am glad I ain't never done anything wrong!


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## jigman29

Anybody that would say these men are the same as any other thief is an idiot.I personally know 3 of these men and they would give you the shirt off they're back!!!One of the men has even done a little preaching from time to time.They did wrong and will go to ourt and pay for what they did but to paint them with such a boad brush is outright wrong.They broke the law and it's the same as speeding or any other law that has been broken.Thanks goodness none of you have ever done that.I will venture to say that as the case comes out that you will see most of the charges are not for killing but for training out of season and such as that.Sure,some animals were killed without a doubt but it isn't like they  just went out and mindlessly slaughtering like many would have us believe.


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## jonesey

Amen to what Doug B and Jigman said , i also know 3 of these men and they are far from scum . Yes they done wrong but unless you know them personally you should keep your judgmental thoughts to your self ..


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## LIB MR ducks

jigman29 said:


> I will venture to say that as the case comes out that you will see most of the charges are not for killing but for training out of season and such as that.Sure,some animals were killed without a doubt but it isn't like they  just went out and mindlessly slaughtering like many would have us believe.



One guy has 100 charges. Sounds like at least one of them was out there mindlessly slaughtering.


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## Unicoidawg

All right guys keep any names out of it here and try not to be so confrontational with each other. The whole issue will be handled by the officials in charge not folks on a message board. Cival discussion is welcome, but anymore mudslinging and the whole topic will be deleted.


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## tree cutter 08

Speeding down the rd is also a crime. Will say this, lots of mountain folks look at bears like flatlanders look at yotes. Does it make it right? No because the law is what it is. Does it make these guys scum? No if you think it does then consider yourself scum next time you break the speed limit or role through a stop sign.


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## jigman29

LIB MR ducks said:


> One guy has 100 charges. Sounds like at least one of them was out there mindlessly slaughtering.



100 charges doesn't mean they were all killing charges.If they ran dogs out of season that will be a charge,feeding wildlife on federal land another charge.guiding hunts without permits is another.The dnr will scrape the bottom of the barrel to get every charge they can to be sure these guys will never do it again and to make sure it will look good on paper.These guys were wrong but they will have to pay for it so I hate to see them judged as scum and criminals when the ones I know are hard working salt of the earth folks.I know the ones from the city don't understand that they're is a way of life here in the mountains that is ingrained for generations.Granted this was way out of ordinary but most people up here,just like in every other small town know somebody that may cross the line but they mind they're own business if it doesn't hurt them.I am not justifying what they did just saying my piece.


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## rem 300

jigman29 said:


> 100 charges doesn't mean they were all killing charges.If they ran dogs out of season that will be a charge,feeding wildlife on federal land another charge.guiding hunts without permits is another.The dnr will scrape the bottom of the barrel to get every charge they can to be sure these guys will never do it again and to make sure it will look good on paper.These guys were wrong but they will have to pay for it so I hate to see them judged as scum and criminals when the ones I know are hard working salt of the earth folks.I know the ones from the city don't understand that they're is a way of life here in the mountains that is ingrained for generations.Granted this was way out of ordinary but most people up here,just like in every other small town know somebody that may cross the line but they mind they're own business if it doesn't hurt them.I am not justifying what they did just saying my piece.



X2 Couldnt of said it better myself, TO MANY are quick to judge!


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## jguffie

siberian1 said:


> Glad they are shutting these guys down!!  Scum of the earth doesnt even describe them!!


 just bc these boys broke the law dont mean they are scum of the earth i know some of these boys and they would give you or me or anybody else the shirt off their back if u needed it...i guess you have prob never rolled thru a stop sign or went over the speed limit or have always wore a seatbelt....just saying nobody is perfect


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## Flaustin1

How bout one of yall mountain boys that dont like the bears much put me on one.  I will put you on a deer, hog or ducks in return.


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## Spook

*Never seen a bear on our North Hall Farm*

We run a working farm 15 min. from Clevland, 30 acres of fruit orchards, 15 acres of cane berries, hardwoods and 8 foot wide flowing creek that comes straight from the mountains. Tons of deer and turkey, never seen a bear and never seen bear sign, I am in the fields over 300 days a year and sometimes all night. I think if we were overpopulated with bear we would have seen one in 20 plus years of being here. Did not mean to insult anyone, if they are innocent, sorry you got caught up in this, if you are guilty, learn from it and hunt by the rules. Mark


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## GT-40 GUY

Black bears will stalk humans then kill them and feed on them. Most of the bear attacks are from black bears and they are multiplying like crazy. As for eating bear meat you better cook it well done because they are full of trichinosis. They are filthy nasty things that route around in the dirt eating all kinds of carrion.

gt40


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## tree cutter 08

Spook, you have had a bear pass through I'm sure. They like the mountains and prefer them over flatland. Ask anyone in the mountains if there in short supply. They are one reason why we don't have as many deer as we used to. Be glad you don't have any bear trouble on the farm. Seen some pretty good dents in corn fields from them


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## Doug B.

Spook said:


> We run a working farm 15 min. from Clevland, 30 acres of fruit orchards, 15 acres of cane berries, hardwoods and 8 foot wide flowing creek that comes straight from the mountains. Tons of deer and turkey, never seen a bear and never seen bear sign, I am in the fields over 300 days a year and sometimes all night. I think if we were overpopulated with bear we would have seen one in 20 plus years of being here. Did not mean to insult anyone, if they are innocent, sorry you got caught up in this, if you are guilty, learn from it and hunt by the rules. Mark



I have seen apple trees stripped by bears to the point there were no limbs left on it. Try the same thing you are doing there up here in the mountains. I have seen corn fields demolished by bears. There are a lot of farmers up here that wishes there was a lot less of them. We are definitely overpopulated with them here. Most people cannot even put up a bird feeder cause the bears will tear them up, and tear up anything else they can while they are there. They can, and have, become a nuisance.


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## GA DAWG

Im further south than spook and see the vermin regular!! Must not be none in cleveland. Somebody done killed em all up there.


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## Unicoidawg

GA DAWG said:


> Im further south than spook and see the vermin regular!! Must not be none in cleveland. Somebody done killed em all up there.



I have lived, hunted and worked in these mtns all my life. There are more here than EVER before. The south end of the county has some pasing through here and there, but the north end they are like fleas.


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## jonesey

Doug B. said:


> I have seen apple trees stripped by bears to the point there were no limbs left on it. Try the same thing you are doing there up here in the mountains. I have seen corn fields demolished by bears. There are a lot of farmers up here that wishes there was a lot less of them. We are definitely overpopulated with them here. Most people cannot even put up a bird feeder cause the bears will tear them up, and tear up anything else they can while they are there. They can, and have, become a nuisance.



True !! I cant even feed the deer in my yard anymore


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## bowbuck

The fact you have an over abundant resource does not make it okay to illegally take it.  Its stealing from licensed hunters.  If you choose to do that on a regular habital basis your a criminal.  Its not a once in a while unintentional act, its a life style and an overall disrespect for the law.  Not in everyones case but often the type of people that habitually break the law are also your controlled substance users and manufacturers.  I know some the men arrested are friends of others here and at least one is a member here that often post on mountain hunted related titles.  It doesnt make a person scum but it does make them a criminal and possible felons.  For those saying its like speeding.  Its only like speeding if someone habitally flys up and down the road with no respect for others. The habitual behavior is the issue not the once upon the time mess up.  As a friend once said about a neighbor " he is not the type of man that is bothered by the process of the law."


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## broadhead

Another black eye placed on the hunting community. I hope all involved are justly punished.


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## greg_n_clayton

bowbuck said:


> The fact you have an over abundant resource does not make it okay to illegally take it.  Its stealing from licensed hunters.  If you choose to do that on a regular habital basis your a criminal.  Its not a once in a while unintentional act, its a life style and an overall disrespect for the law.  Not in everyones case but often the type of people that habitually break the law are also your controlled substance users and manufacturers.  I know some the men arrested are friends of others here and at least one is a member here that often post on mountain hunted related titles.  It doesnt make a person scum but it does make them a criminal and possible felons.  For those saying its like speeding.  Its only like speeding if someone habitally flys up and down the road with no respect for others. The habitual behavior is the issue not the once upon the time mess up.  As a friend once said about a neighbor " he is not the type of man that is bothered by the process of the law."



My first criminal act occured when I was big enough to hold a Daisy BB gun up to my shoulder, or maybe it was when I was big enough to put a red worm on a hook !


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## bowbuck

greg_n_clayton said:


> My first criminal act occured when I was big enough to hold a Daisy BB gun up to my shoulder, or maybe it was when I was big enough to put a red worm on a hook !



Please dont misinterpert that I am saying I am an angel or perfect.  My single point is when breaking the law becomes a lifestyle and you do it in your 30 s 40s or older, you have picked which side of the fence you are on. Public opinion of you should reflect your choice in that matter and every buck, fish or bear you have ever killed or will ever kill are questionable to the legality of it.   From the view point of a leo if someone took the time to type 100 warrants and do the paperwork needed to that your in deep doo doo.


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## greg_n_clayton

bowbuck said:


> Please dont misinterpert that I am saying I am an angel or perfect.  My single point is when breaking the law becomes a lifestyle and you do it in your 30 s 40s or older, you have picked which side of the fence you are on. Public opinion of you should reflect your choice in that matter and every buck, fish or bear you have ever killed or will ever kill are questionable to the legality of it.   From the view point of a leo if someone took the time to type 100 warrants and do the paperwork needed to that your in deep doo doo.



That's why after years of thankin', I finally chose the signature below !!  They are doin their job !! And after 4 yrs..I am sure some examples will be made !!  But I do not thinks 4 yrs or 14 will get all guilty parties now or in the future !!  It is/will make the "hard core" be a bit more cautious who they buddy with !! Kinda like the moonshiners that do and will continue to be !!! They been after them for.....well, a long long time !!


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## NCHillbilly

bowbuck said:


> The fact you have an over abundant resource does not make it okay to illegally take it.  Its stealing from licensed hunters.  If you choose to do that on a regular habital basis your a criminal.  Its not a once in a while unintentional act, its a life style and an overall disrespect for the law.  Not in everyones case but often the type of people that habitually break the law are also your controlled substance users and manufacturers.  I know some the men arrested are friends of others here and at least one is a member here that often post on mountain hunted related titles.  It doesnt make a person scum but it does make them a criminal and possible felons.  For those saying its like speeding.  Its only like speeding if someone habitally flys up and down the road with no respect for others. The habitual behavior is the issue not the once upon the time mess up.  As a friend once said about a neighbor " he is not the type of man that is bothered by the process of the law."



You couldn't be more wrong on the highlighted statement. Yes, these people are breaking bear hunting laws, but otherwise, 99.9% of them are not criminals in any other way, and certainly not druggies or drug manufacturers. I know some of these people personally. Some who have been caught in these things before were preachers and church deacons. None of these people I know are involved in any way whatsoever in theft, or drug abuse in any way. You're painting with a mighty broad brush. Most of them would give you the shirt off their back, and you could leave a thousand dollars with them for a year and it would be safe and there when you came back for it. They just can't seem to get the hang of obeying wildlife laws. That's no excuse for their acts in this case, but rest assured that almost none of these people are general criminals, druggies, scum, or any of the other names they've been called here. They will pay for their crimes, and perhaps learn something from it.


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## MLP78

X2 on what Hillbilly said I know alot of the people involved. Most of them are great people and very productive members of society.


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## greg_n_clayton

NCHillbilly said:


> You couldn't be more wrong on the highlighted statement. Yes, these people are breaking bear hunting laws, but otherwise, 99.9% of them are not criminals in any other way, and certainly not druggies or drug manufacturers. I know some of these people personally. Some who have been caught in these things before were preachers and church deacons. None of these people I know are involved in any way whatsoever in theft, or drug abuse in any way. You're painting with a mighty broad brush. Most of them would give you the shirt off their back, and you could leave a thousand dollars with them for a year and it would be safe and there when you came back for it. They just can't seem to get the hang of obeying wildlife laws. That's no excuse for their acts in this case, but rest assured that almost none of these people are general criminals, druggies, scum, or any of the other names they've been called here. They will pay for their crimes, and perhaps learn something from it.





MLP78 said:


> X2 on what Hillbilly said I know alot of the people involved. Most of them are great people and very productive members of society.



This is all true !! And to my friend, NCHillbilly.....they could not have picked a better feller to be a mod. here being that you understand culture in these parts !! And it is a fact...that I know of at least one of the ones from here in the county,accused,  is/does/will help others in the name of God in the community !!


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## T.P.

Does anyone have their number? I'd like to line a hunt up with them, sounds like a fun time.


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## jigman29

T.P. said:


> Does anyone have their number? I'd like to line a hunt up with them, sounds like a fun time.



 you could probably call 911 and somebody could put you in touch with one of them lol.


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## jguffie

bowbuck said:


> The fact you have an over abundant resource does not make it okay to illegally take it.  Its stealing from licensed hunters.  If you choose to do that on a regular habital basis your a criminal.  Its not a once in a while unintentional act, its a life style and an overall disrespect for the law.  Not in everyones case but often the type of people that habitually break the law are also your controlled substance users and manufacturers.  I know some the men arrested are friends of others here and at least one is a member here that often post on mountain hunted related titles.  It doesnt make a person scum but it does make them a criminal and possible felons.  For those saying its like speeding.  Its only like speeding if someone habitally flys up and down the road with no respect for others. The habitual behavior is the issue not the once upon the time mess up.  As a friend once said about a neighbor " he is not the type of man that is bothered by the process of the law."



so basically your saying that if you dont habitually wear a seatbelt your a criminal and there is a good chance your doing or selling drugs??? i disagree .. a law is a law doesnt matter if its speeding or baiting bears... just bc someone breaks the law doesnt mean they are always a bad person.


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## HOGDOG76

Every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of Ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.


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## jguffie

HOGDOG76 said:


> Every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of Ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.



im guessing you hog hunt with dogs just by your name...so i guess your dog has never crossed a property line or you have never baited for hogs (before it was legal) if you havent thats awesome that you have never broke the law at anythng... if you have broke the law what does it say about your character?? everybody is human and people are going to make mistakes...deacons are not perfect either they are human just like me and you ....its not like they murdered somebody...they were baiting and got caught... i dont understand y some people thinks this makes these guys terrible people


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## one hogman

" Judge NOT less thy be Judged yourself""


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## chadeugene

"Operation Something Bruin"


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## Dallen92

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> I think the majority of the arrests and violations are going to come from Clay, Macon, and probably Haywood counties in NC.



Very few actually came from Macon, Clay, and Jackson.  Majority came from Swain, Graham, and Haywood counties.


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## rem 300

HOGDOG76 said:


> Every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of Ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.



 Some never cease to amaze me!!


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## greg_n_clayton

hogdog76 said:


> every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.



wow !!!


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## NCHillbilly

Dallen92 said:


> Very few actually came from Macon, Clay, and Jackson.  Majority came from Swain, Graham, and Haywood counties.



Haywood County, NC is the center of the known universe.


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## jonesey

HOGDOG76 said:


> Every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of Ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.



I would like to shake the hand of a perfect man like yourself ..


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## gatorhater

Heck I would Love to shake the hand of you guys that think it is ok to have over 100 violations. Dont knowif this was the preacher or not but I sure wouldnt be in his congregation. Pastors just as law enforcement officers should be held to a higher standard of the law. These violations went on for 3 years, it wasn't a one mistake.


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## jonesey

gatorhater said:


> Heck I would Love to shake the hand of you guys that think it is ok to have over 100 violations. Dont knowif this was the preacher or not but I sure wouldnt be in his congregation. Pastors just as law enforcement officers should be held to a higher standard of the law. These violations went on for 3 years, it wasn't a one mistake.



Show me the post where i said it was OK to have any violations .. Also never said it was a just a mistake . But i will still shake your hand if you want


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## dixon

I would like to know how many bears were killed senselessly while mr.green jeans was watching so they could just add up more charges on these guys,just so they could get a warm and fuzzy feeling.Seems like they should be just as guilty as the poachers for letting it go on for so long,more charges means more bears killed for no reason.


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## LIB MR ducks

dixon said:


> I would like to know how many bears were killed senselessly while mr.green jeans was watching so they could just add up more charges on these guys,just so they could get a warm and fuzzy feeling.Seems like they should be just as guilty as the poachers for letting it go on for so long,more charges means more bears killed for no reason.



Wow. Really nothing else to say to that.


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## NCHillbilly

gatorhater said:


> Heck I would Love to shake the hand of you guys that think it is ok to have over 100 violations. Dont knowif this was the preacher or not but I sure wouldnt be in his congregation. Pastors just as law enforcement officers should be held to a higher standard of the law. These violations went on for 3 years, it wasn't a one mistake.



Nobody said it was OK. All I said was that all these guys aren't thieves, druggies, and scum as some people have said here. They are for the most part normal, otherwise law-abiding people who have made mistakes and broken the law. They will have to pay for their violations, just like any of us would if we got caught speeding or doing anything else illegal.  There are a few much worse than others, and there may be a few habitual criminals in the bunch, but I know that all of them aren't that type. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.


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## feathersnantlers

According to everyone on here there is a black bear population explosion up there. So a few more shouldn't make a difference. I mean that's what a lot of folks on here said.



> I would like to know how many bears were killed senselessly while mr.green jeans was watching so they could just add up more charges on these guys,just so they could get a warm and fuzzy feeling.Seems like they should be just as guilty as the poachers for letting it go on for so long,more charges means more bears killed for no reason.


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## Mark K

News flash, it's not just mountain folks that break the law!! I live way down south here and know farmers that will bait a dove field in a minute. Even if there's already 1000 birds using it. Some do it for the thrill, some do it because that's what was always done. Heck some even have after season shoots. Not a one of them breaks into cars or does drugs to my knowledge. And one is a deacon and very respected!


----------



## greg_n_clayton

cklem said:


> I think you are making the same point, do people really care if they are baiting dove fields, I know people here wouldn't, make a big deal over that.Because someone bends wildlife rules a little does that make them thugs, As far as respectable church goin folk, I don't remember moses bringing down a tablet that said , thou shalt not commit wildlife violations.,Fact of the matter is, they did it, they got caught, They are not scum in most peoples eyes,so people shouldn't make remarks about people they don't know.With all that said, we all realize we have wildlife rules and regulations for a reason, and when we break them and get caught, the penalty must be paid , no matter if we thing they are important or not.



pay the price and then move on !! And a lesson will be learned !! What is learned from it will vary, I am sure !!


----------



## Doug B.

HOGDOG76 said:


> Every one of the non residents found guilty of a wildlife crime committed here  should never be allowed to hunt in the state of Ga again! It says alot about the character of those who try to defend them on here and more about any church who would make them a deacon.



YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!! I hope I can be just like you when I grow up.


----------



## injun joe

NCHillbilly said:


> Nobody said it was OK. All I said was that all these guys aren't thieves, druggies, and scum as some people have said here. They are for the most part normal, otherwise law-abiding people who have made mistakes and broken the law. They will have to pay for their violations, just like any of us would if we got caught speeding or doing anything else illegal.  There are a few much worse than others, and there may be a few habitual criminals in the bunch, but I know that all of them aren't that type. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.



That's where you're wrong. They may not be druggies or scum, but they are thieves. They have stolen wildlife in Ga from the rest of us. It may not be all that bad, but if so, there's no reason to sugarcoat it.


----------



## HOGDOG76

Dog hunters have a tough enough time maintaining a good reputation without the help of scum like these. The comments of many on here defending this behaviour makes me think maybe im wrong and we deserve the bad rep we tote. Hunting or training in this state is a priviledge for any of us and doubly so for the NC boys. If they violate that there should be no leniency and should be banned for life.


----------



## MULE

When it comes to bears in the mtn's, without a doubt the largest poacher is the farmer.


----------



## jigman29

I'm willing to bet the folks really pitching a fit and calling these folks out for taking the side of the poachers are the same ones condeming baiting deer.They were pitching a fit but now have bags of corn in the truck to hunt over.But since the ones doing it before it was legal had to be druggies and general thugs they must be clean now that baiting is legal lol.I hope that if I ever move I can find this really awesome place they live in since nobody there has ever broke the law lol.


----------



## Old Hickory

The problem is we live in a nanny state where Big Brother wants to dictate every action we take, when we take it and how we take it. 

God was able to define how we should live in ten simple rules that anyone can memorize as a child and fit on one sheet of paper. Yet it takes a hundred pages of laws to tell us how to hunt?

The mountain folk aren't the ones out of control. The Kings men are the ones out of control.


----------



## Artfuldodger

quail traps, fish traps, fightin' chickens, shinin' rabbits, illegal campfires, two Redfish, & not enough orange


----------



## MLP78

I am pretty sure nobody from NC travels to GA to hunt bear.


----------



## jigman29

MLP78 said:


> I am pretty sure nobody from NC travels to GA to hunt bear.



Lol believe it or not years ago I knew some boys that would come here to train dogs since we could train all summer before they changed the law.That was years ago but I doubt anyone does it anymore.


----------



## jguffie

HOGDOG76 said:


> Dog hunters have a tough enough time maintaining a good reputation without the help of scum like these. The comments of many on here defending this behaviour makes me think maybe im wrong and we deserve the bad rep we tote. Hunting or training in this state is a priviledge for any of us and doubly so for the NC boys. If they violate that there should be no leniency and should be banned for life.


These boys are not scum as I said earlier.but if u think folks are scum just because they broke the law there is scum everywhere....I just wished I could meet a 100 percent law abiding citizen like yourself and be perfect like yourself...the last time I checked there is only one perfect person ever walked the face of this earth


----------



## Budda

jguffie said:


> These boys are not scum as I said earlier.but if u think folks are scum just because they broke the law there is scum everywhere....I just wished I could meet a 100 percent law abiding citizen like yourself and be perfect like yourself...the last time I checked there is only one perfect person ever walked the face of this earth



One perfect person.....and I am STILL alive!!!!  



Hog dog means well and he is a good feller that takes doggin about as serious as I am about protectin my family.  He's passionate an you can see it in his writin in here.  I ain't never met the man but he seems to be well respected in the dog huntin community.  Ifn you ain't ever tried huntin wit dogs and caught grief from folks then you ain't able how to understand how hard it is and how upsetting it is to see folks git caught up in something like this causing other folks wit dog boxes to look bad.  He's entitled to his opinion.  Quit knocking him fer it.  Go grab a jar of tea and sit in the back porch looking out over the mountain and see that there is more to life then defending folks who got the spotlight on them right now.  The heat will dissipate and life will go on.


----------



## glynr329

*Very good people*

The ones that are defending them as good people. Sounds like real good people to me. 980 violations and 80 arrest. Maybe they are just victims and the DNR are picking on them. Wow




BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Saw the report Wed. evening on metro TV news. Sounds like a big poaching ring going back to 2009 & now having 80 arrest warrants for people with 980 violations.  Good job by Georgia & North Carolina officers catching these law breakers.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.11alive.com/news/article/278717/40/Wildlife-officers-charge-80-with-bear-poaching
> 
> *Wildlife officers charge 80 with bear poaching*
> 
> 11:35 PM, Feb 20, 2013
> 
> 
> Video Time:  1:05
> 
> <object id="flashObj" width="960" height="540" classid="clsid<param name="movie" value="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&isUI=1" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF" /><param name="flashVars" value="videoId=2178973231001&playerID=1685956554001&playerKey=AQ~~,AAAAB_0PyCk~,_pBlGqvGs04S2emNW1BIky_zyX6qQebI&domain=embed&dynamicStreaming=true" /><param name="base" value="http://admin.brightcove.com" /><param name="seamlesstabbing" value="false" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="swLiveConnect" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&isUI=1" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=2178973231001&playerID=1685956554001&playerKey=AQ~~,AAAAB_0PyCk~,_pBlGqvGs04S2emNW1BIky_zyX6qQebI&domain=embed&dynamicStreaming=true" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="960" height="540" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object>


----------



## jguffie

Budda said:


> One perfect person.....and I am STILL alive!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hog dog means well and he is a good feller that takes doggin about as serious as I am about protectin my family.  He's passionate an you can see it in his writin in here.  I ain't never met the man but he seems to be well respected in the dog huntin community.  Ifn you ain't ever tried huntin wit dogs and caught grief from folks then you ain't able how to understand how hard it is and how upsetting it is to see folks git caught up in something like this causing other folks wit dog boxes to look bad.  He's entitled to his opinion.  Quit knocking him fer it.  Go grab a jar of tea and sit in the back porch looking out over the mountain and see that there is more to life then defending folks who got the spotlight on them right now.  The heat will dissipate and life will go on.



I have dogs myself and lots of my buddies do as well so I see what you're saying and yeah everybody has an opinion but that don't mean that these men are scum or bad folks as he has said


----------



## The mtn man

Dallen92 said:


> Very few actually came from Macon, Clay, and Jackson.  Majority came from Swain, Graham, and Haywood counties.



Was it mostly NCBHA members.


----------



## Sterlo58

Boy this thread has gone all over the place. The fact is, most of us here don't know these people personally. I worked for a short time in law enforcement ( no longer thank goodness ), and most people would be dumbfounded at the normal everyday folks who get busted doing something they know is wrong. I'm talking about preachers, teachers, doctors, soccer moms etc. People make mistakes and if caught pay the price. They were wrong but  let's not act as judge, jury and executioner. That goes for the Law enforcement officers as well. Do not judge them before you walk in their shoes. Mighty tough job for very little pay.


----------



## tree cutter 08

south ga allows bear doggin, south ga allows deer doggin, south ga allows deer baiting. north ga gets nothing. im not defending these guys, i dont even know them. i dont call people scum because they break the law either. i dont understand why this state divides game laws like they do. will this break people from killing a bear tearing up there corn field??? probably not. you cant get bear crop damage permits but you can deer. you can kill hogs for tearing up your crops day or night. if you call dnr with a problem bear or bears they bring a trap. if he's a young dumb bear they will catch him and move relocate him and soon he's another persons problem. i like the fact that we have bears but there population needs to be reduced to where it was 15yr ago. 
on a side note, how did the folks down the country get in on this with deer hunting charges and the guy with the captive deer charge? there charges were nothing related to bears


----------



## GTHUNT

980 charges and only 10 bears killed in a 3-4 year investigation. Sounds like the charges may be a little trumped. I heard the game wardens killed some of the 10


----------



## tree cutter 08

10 bears, id though with all the folks arrested and charges it would have been a few hundred. if it would have been 10 deer killed it would have been 1 arrest and 7 charges.


----------



## GTHUNT

The article said at least ten and I had heard ten from a reliable source. I believe that a large portion of the charges will be related to training with bait. Bear hunting is a way of life for a lot folks around here. For those who think these guys are lazy, scum, druggies, and thieves, you should check out the terrain these guys are hunting. Most folks wouldn't even make it to their feeders before needing to take a breather. No offense but dog hunting in the mountains is an extreme sport.


----------



## Hawg Daddy

Call it what you will they have put the dog hunter in the SPOT LIGHT once again in a negative way,and I can see where HD is coming from because we as dog hunters will be judged with them.Also I've read on here that there just mountain folks and that's the way they were rasied, what about the street folks they were rasied to rob,steal, and sell drugs but they are the real scum right ? I'm not calling them scum but I'm not going to defend them either.I'm sure they will have their day in court and pay I'm just mad that they have gave the aint's another feather in their cap.


----------



## NCHillbilly

I think some of you are getting the wrong idea. I have seen nobody "defending" these people for breaking wildlife laws. I'm not. They should pay up for violating the law. My remarks were directed toward those whose posts alledge that these people are all drug addicts, drunks, meth manufacturers, and thieves that break into trucks, steal treestands, and are scum of the earth and such. 

Some of them may be, I don't know all of them. But I can tell you that some of these folks are not like that at all. I would say the same thing if any of you were arrested for speeding and someone came on here saying that because you broke the speed limit, you're obviously a drunk, doper, and thief. 

There's a big difference between making and selling meth, breaking into houses, commiting murder, driving over the speed limit, and turning a dog loose near a pile of stale honeybuns. They're all illegal, and all can get you arrested and prosecuted. But because you did one of the above, doesn't mean that you habitually do all of the above. That's all I'm saying. Some of the folks were arrested for major and repeated wildlife violations, but some were for relatively minor isolated incidents.


----------



## bowbuck

My family comes from northern Habersham and Towns counties. Both sides were pioneer families that came to this part if the world around 1800, give or take a couple of decades. In that family we have moonshiners, bear poachers, deer poachers, drug addicts and normal folks.  Short of their mommies no one in the family condones or makes excuses for their actions.  When not if they get arrested for it they will have to answer for their crimes in court.  Some will go straight after enough money has left their pockets.  Most will not, cause someone gets them out of it or they just dont believe the law applies to them.  Some never grow up.  Could I call any of them and ask for help if needed, sure.  Does that mean they are great citzens, NO.

I think its the same with these folks. Their Mommies love them, they have friends they help out.  Some might attend church.  At the end of the day they break the law in blatant fashion cause they just dont think the law applies to them or they just flat dont care.  

Lets not use our mountain upbringing to justify being criminals, its an embrassment and disgrace to honest hardworking law abiding mountain peoples.


----------



## Hawg Daddy

I'd buy JUST getting caught up in the moment but 980 charges.

I think its the same with these folks. Their Mommies love them, they have friends they help out. Some might attend church. At the end of the day they break the law in blatant fashion cause they just dont think the law applies to them or they just flat dont care. 

Lets not use our mountain upbringing to justify being criminals, its an embrassment and disgrace to honest hardworking law abiding mountain peoples. 

Well said


----------



## Scrub Buck

If the bear population is so out of control....why would they have had to bait, set traps  and run dogs for them?  Seems it would have been easier on everyone if they just went hunting within the limits of the law.  Anyone who spent time in Rabun County over the last five years had to know this investigation was going on.  I was ask by Law Enforcement on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS if I had seen or witnessed any of these activities going on.  I hunt and fish the area on a regular basis.  I showed and told Law Enforcement everything I saw.  I got messed up on turkey hunts because of dogs, deer and turkey hunts because of their bait.  I could go on and on.  To top it all off they harassed wildlife out of season and stole a resource from me and everyone else who hunts in the area.  Great church going people by the way?  Just like speeding or DUI there is a price to pay.  When you break the law and get caught people are going to say things.  Especially your mother.  People form opinions on your actions.  Time for them to pay.


----------



## Scrub Buck

A bear is considered by many as the trophy of a lifetime?  At least where I was born.  That is why you have to hunt for one.  Sticky buns are sold in vending machines and made in bakeries.  They do not grow on trees.  Go get one of them there.  Kill a bear legally.


----------



## GA DAWG

I wonder if the infiltrators have left the country yet?


----------



## The mtn man

GA DAWG said:


> I wonder if the infiltrators have left the country yet?



Idk, I would think so since the jig is up. Do you know if there were any charges for selling gallbladders, that was the last sting operation I can remember.


----------



## GA DAWG

cklem said:


> Idk, I would think so since the jig is up. Do you know if there were any charges for selling gallbladders, that was the last sting operation I can remember.


I don't know. I figure that 900 number is blown way out of proportion.  Probably mostly little stuff. Heck if they would sit on Dawson Forest for 1 yr and just check folks. They'd probably make a 1000 citations and that's non hunters.


----------



## Scrub Buck

No.  I'll be there.


----------



## Scrub Buck

Need to know where you are and the law?  That is your responsibility.


----------



## pnome

cklem said:


> still hunting bears over a natural food source is a total shot in the dark



Don't I know it!  Don't I know it.....


----------



## Scrub Buck

Need to know where you are and the laws?  That is your responsibility?


----------



## Scrub Buck

Ok, on a federal offense.  Right?


----------



## hayseed_theology

Scrub Buck said:


> Anyone who spent time in Rabun County over the last five years had to know this investigation was going on.  I was ask by Law Enforcement on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS if I had seen or witnessed any of these activities going on.  I hunt and fish the area on a regular basis.



Hmm, I must have been the only one who didn't know Something was Bruin.

I used to live in Rabun county before moving to SW GA a couple years ago.  I hunted and fished regularly.  I never saw a GW while hunting, fishing, or scouting.  The only time I saw a LEO outside of Clayton, I stopped and asked him what HE was doing out there.

What part of the county were you hunting and fishing?


----------



## Scrub Buck

Must have been a totally inside investigation?  How else would you get information?


----------



## Scrub Buck

Must have been a totally inside investigation?  How else would you get information?


----------



## Resica

Scrub Buck said:


> Need to know where you are and the law?  That is your responsibility.


----------



## Old Hickory

Scrub Buck said:


> Need to know where you are and the laws?  That is your responsibility?



That's sad and shortsighted. You need to wake up and think for yourself. 



> *"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers -- and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system." *


 - Ayn Rand


----------



## Resica

Old Hickory said:


> That's sad and shortsighted. You need to wake up and think for yourself.
> 
> - Ayn Rand



What's that mean?


----------



## Resica

cklem said:


> Yep, thats right, I think we both know, what the whole region in general will learn, be careful who you associate with.Gws will have a tough time doin this again for a while, Also those out of towners, that want one of these mtn boys to help them get a shot at a bear, well they will just be out of luck I guess.Ga. should really look at gettin a legal baiting program started, like they do in the northern states, at least on private property,It's hard to controll the population any other way, since north ga will probably never allow dogs, I would like to see the deer population rebound, It aint gonna happen until the bears get thinned out a good bit.



Nonsense, Pennsylvania is smaller than Georgia and North Carolina but we have more bears than your two states combined. There is no baiting allowed and no dog hunting for bears  but yet we control our bear population.


----------



## tree cutter 08

glad yall do


----------



## Resica

tree cutter 08 said:


> glad yall do



Me too and I think we enjoy doing it.


----------



## GTHUNT

900 charges and only ten bear kills over 4 years, don't sound like much of a poaching ring to me. Or not a very good job by Leo. It 
 just don't add up to me. Wonder how much they spent on this undercover operation?


----------



## fredw

GTHUNT said:


> 900 charges and only ten bear kills over 4 years, don't sound like much of a poaching ring to me. Or not a very good job by Leo. It
> just don't add up to me. Wonder how much they spent on this undercover operation?



Would it be a better poaching ring if it were 50 bears?  100 bears?

From here, the number isn't as important as the fact that they were violating game laws.


----------



## GTHUNT

Just seems like if it were as big of a bust as the number of charges would lead up to believe that there would have been more dead animals. I mean 80 people and only ten bears. 4 years of undercover police work in 2 states. Seems like the numbers are off. I am in no way defending the poachers. As others have said it just brings a worse name to dog hunters. I grew up dog hunting and respect the sport. But I know small groups of bear hunters that legally harvest more than ten every year. So the number of harvested bears should tell everybody something don't add up.


----------



## GA DAWG

Here's how the high and mighty deer hunters think. Look at the poll. No different than poaching bears.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=741691


----------



## GTHUNT

Comparable to stealing and selling drugs to some on here.


----------



## MudDucker

Mark K said:


> News flash, it's not just mountain folks that break the law!! I live way down south here and know farmers that will bait a dove field in a minute. Even if there's already 1000 birds using it. Some do it for the thrill, some do it because that's what was always done. Heck some even have after season shoots. Not a one of them breaks into cars or does drugs to my knowledge. And one is a deacon and very respected!




There is no prohibition against baiting in the Bible other than the command to obey the laws of the government.  In fact the Bible gives man total dominion over all of the animals of the world.

I'm sorry, but I can't too excited over bait.  Man has baited game for food since the beginning of mankind.


----------



## Backlasher82

GTHUNT said:


> Comparable to stealing and selling drugs to some on here.



It's the flip side of the same coin.

When people try to rationalize something like this by using the tired old "Well if you've ever broke the speed limit you're just as bad as they are" argument, it invites the opposite "If you've ever broken game laws you're no better than a thief, drug dealer, etc".

Both sides are irrelevant and ridiculous.


----------



## GTHUNT

If someone was selling crack to your kid I bet it wouldn't be the same than


----------



## Backlasher82

GTHUNT said:


> If someone was selling crack to your kid I bet it wouldn't be the same than



Congratulations now that you've argued both sides so effectively, you've convinced me that game law violators and crack dealers are equally guilty.

So, do you think the guys caught in this bear bust should be sentenced the same as crack dealers too? You know, 10 year mandatory sentences, etc?    

Seems a little excessive to me but since it's for the children, if it saves just one life, etc. Did I miss any cliches?


----------



## GTHUNT

Backlasher82 said:


> Congratulations now that you've argued both sides so effectively, you've convinced me that game law violators and crack dealers are equally guilty.
> 
> So, do you think the guys caught in this bear bust should be sentenced the same as crack dealers too? You know, 10 year mandatory sentences, etc?
> 
> Seems a little excessive to me but since it's for the children, if it saves just one life, etc. Did I miss any cliches?


I don't think I have argued both sides,but if you can show me where I have would be glad to apologize. And no I dont  think it is the same or should be punished the same,however I do think they should be punished if found guilty. I hunt legal and think others should as well. But comparing apples and oranges just takes plain ole common sense right out of the conversation.


----------



## Backlasher82

GTHUNT said:


> I don't think I have argued both sides,but if you can show me where I have would be glad to apologize. And no I dont  think it is the same or should be punished the same,however I do think they should be punished if found guilty. I hunt legal and think others should as well. But comparing apples and oranges just takes plain ole common sense right out of the conversation.



Read post #132 again


----------



## Resica

cklem said:


> Congradulations, do you know the bear population in all these states, I'm sure you have more than GA, as a whole,bear populations are in smaller areas, but very dense, I'm not sure you have more than NC.If you put the numbers on here from a reliable source, then there you go.Pensylvania man.



Here you go North Carolina man.   We had 8-10,000 bears back in the 80's.

http://baldwin-whitehall.patch.com/...-high-population-of-black-bears-and-coyotes-4




http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...eports/2011_game_mammals_23001_ci.html&mode=2

At around the 37 second mark you'll see a graph.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1283672&mode=2


http://naturalunseenhazards.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/north-carolina-black-bear-population-growing/

http://www.georgiawildlife.com/BlackBearFacts



Point is, baiting for bears and hunting with dogs is not necessary to manipulate the population.


----------



## Resica

Thanks for making me look all that up.


----------



## Nitram4891

If you signed up for a guided hunt with one of these guys, did you get a free shirt?  Sure sounds like it from all these posts.


----------



## jigman29

I bet most of the guys wanting to lynch these boys they have never met would not think twice about drinking a jar of moonshine like it was no big deal.Thing about it that is just as illegal in the eyes of the law.But since non of them are in the liquer business then it doesn't effect them lol.


----------



## ospreydog

What's really wild is that the guy that has over 100 charges against him, doesn't have a single charge for killing wildlife.


----------



## jguffie

Scrub Buck said:


> If the bear population is so out of control....why would they have had to bait, set traps  and run dogs for them?  Seems it would have been easier on everyone if they just went hunting within the limits of the law.  Anyone who spent time in Rabun County over the last five years had to know this investigation was going on.  I was ask by Law Enforcement on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS if I had seen or witnessed any of these activities going on.  I hunt and fish the area on a regular basis.  I showed and told Law Enforcement everything I saw.  I got messed up on turkey hunts because of dogs, deer and turkey hunts because of their bait.  I could go on and on.  To top it all off they harassed wildlife out of season and stole a resource from me and everyone else who hunts in the area.  Great church going people by the way?  Just like speeding or DUI there is a price to pay.  When you break the law and get caught people are going to say things.  Especially your mother.  People form opinions on your actions.  Time for them to pay.


 

Ha ha ha dogs messed up several of your hunts huh....I guess folks 
have to blame something for not having a good hunt...if they messed u up so bad why did u keep going in there hunting instead of going somewhere else


----------



## jguffie

GTHUNT said:


> Just seems like if it were as big of a bust as the number of charges would lead up to believe that there would have been more dead animals. I mean 80 people and only ten bears. 4 years of undercover police work in 2 states. Seems like the numbers are off. I am in no way defending the poachers. As others have said it just brings a worse name to dog hunters. I grew up dog hunting and respect the sport. But I know small groups of bear hunters that legally harvest more than ten every year. So the number of harvested bears should tell everybody something don't add up.



I agree one hundred percent


----------



## Bowfisher

I'm just curious if the juice was worth the squeeze?  How much tax payer money was wasted for the return?  I mean there were around 30 law cars and a helicopter at one house...thats just one


----------



## jonesey

Bowfisher said:


> I'm just curious if the juice was worth the squeeze?  How much tax payer money was wasted for the return?  I mean there were around 30 law cars and a helicopter at one house...thats just one



Heli fuel is high too !!!  Lots of money spent and i just wander how much they will actually get in return ..


----------



## Spook

*One more post from me*

In addition to our farm we also own land on the Macon/Swain border in North Carolina, one side of a mountain, Brush Creek area. We spend a lot of time at our cabin half way up the mountain, only cabin there, I walk the trails we made 25 years ago every trip. Never seen a bear, I have seen rooting areas on occasion. The family about a mile away is in the honey business, no fences, never any problem with bears, this is pretty remote mountain territory. We have deer, resident, 20 plus turkey flock, grouse and trout. It seems this is a bear hunting cultural practice by the supportive responses. It may be a over reaction by DNR, just tell everybody it will be enforced to the letter. Just my take, no judgement. Mark


----------



## NEGA Hog Hunter

injun joe said:


> That's where you're wrong. They may not be druggies or scum, but they are thieves. They have stolen wildlife in Ga from the rest of us. It may not be all that bad, but if so, there's no reason to sugarcoat it.


If part of them bears belong to me , I would gladly donate my share if they will kill them.


----------



## edsel b

I don't like to see people get mad at each other , life is to short to fuss and fight with each other .  Im the one that they have charged with all them charges so if you want say anything to someone p.m. me but get along with everone else... BUT REMEMBER YOU CAN TAKE BACK WORDS... This kind stuff is what they make LAWYERS for....


----------



## tree cutter 08

I did read that 2 agents killed 2 bears to keep their cover. No different than the guys they made charges against. I bet those charges will get droped in court.


----------



## jguffie

tree cutter 08 said:


> I did read that 2 agents killed 2 bears to keep their cover. No different than the guys they made charges against. I bet those charges will get droped in court.



If the under cover guys killed some of the bears they seem to be just as guilty as the other guys....doesn't make much sense to me that they won't get in trouble for it


----------



## T.P.

edsel b said:


> I don't like to see people get mad at each other , life is to short to fuss and fight with each other .  Im the one that they have charged with all them charges so if you want say anything to someone p.m. me but get along with everone else... BUT REMEMBER YOU CAN TAKE BACK WORDS... This kind stuff is what they make LAWYERS for....



Cool! Do you have any pics of your hunt?


----------



## Jake Allen

GTHUNT said:


> 900 charges and only ten bear kills over 4 years, don't sound like much of a poaching ring to me. Or not a very good job by Leo. It
> just don't add up to me. Wonder how much they spent on this undercover operation?



I have read about every article I could, and get the same feeling. I am sure there are some notable, and chargeable offenses. But I would hazard a guess, when all said and done, about 90% of the charges will be dropped, or thrown out by a judge.

"The suspects are charged with more 140 offenses ranging from baiting hunting sites to littering. Each violation is a misdemeanor with a maximum $1,000 fine and a year in jail. Federal charges are possible, too."

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-...obe-snares-90poaching-machine-others-i/nWXQd/

I once paid for my daily parking pass at Wildcat creek, and in the dark, did not properly punch all the way through the paper.
I received a ticket in the mail some weeks later that read: "The United States of America versus J...... A .....H.........".

I had to actually take time from work, and appear before a Federal Judge. The Judge was amused and dropped the ticket.

Am I critical, maybe cynical, and always cautious and slow to place blame?: you betcha.


----------



## JustUs4All

Littering?  Really, littering? 
A multi-year, multi-state, multi-agency investigation and they bring a charge of littering.

Sort of makes you wonder why don't it?


----------



## hayseed_theology

edsel b said:


> I don't like to see people get mad at each other , life is to short to fuss and fight with each other .  Im the one that they have charged with all them charges so if you want say anything to someone p.m. me but get along with everone else... BUT REMEMBER YOU CAN TAKE BACK WORDS... This kind stuff is what they make LAWYERS for....



I assume you are not at liberty to tell your side of the story at this time?


----------



## Killinstuff

It is true, if they are willing to break the game laws they will break other laws without thinking twice. Just how law breakers are. Dirtbags Lock them up for a long time


----------



## pnome

JustUs4All said:


> Littering?  Really, littering?
> A multi-year, multi-state, multi-agency investigation and they bring a charge of littering.
> 
> Sort of makes you wonder why don't it?



I'm kinda happy about that one.  I'm sure there are a bunch of charges I wouldn't care much about, but I am tired of all the trash I see in the woods.


----------



## jigman29

JustUs4All said:


> Littering?  Really, littering?
> A multi-year, multi-state, multi-agency investigation and they bring a charge of littering.
> 
> Sort of makes you wonder why don't it?



Scraping the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.The more charges they bring the more publicity they get.In turn the more support they get for the case and when all the bull charges get dropped they still have several to get fine money with.


----------



## Jake Allen

jigman29 said:


> Scraping the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.The more charges they bring the more publicity they get.In turn the more support they get for the case and when all the bull charges get dropped they still have several to get fine money with.



Kind of my point too.

When laws are broken, and charges are legit, I would think the LEO's would act quickly, and accurately to charge the persons
 responsible and get the proceedings going while the evidence is fresh. 

Also, it would seem to me, quick action would help stop these folks from committing more offenses. 

Waiting all these years, and making one huge bunch of arrests, along with planned Press Conferences and Press Releases, seems maybe to be
 more about grand standing and posturing than about justice, and protecting the deer, bear and turkey population.


----------



## jigman29

I agree A lot of these guys had probably never had a violation and the first time they get caught would stop them for good.I also think some of them would never get the point no matter how many times they get caught.I know a guy that has been caught tons of times and even been to jail and keeps right on violating.He gets caught pretty regular and even had them come to his house and take all his guns since he was a felon.He has still been caught after all that.Some people never learn


----------



## JustUs4All

jake allen said:


> waiting all these years, and making one huge bunch of arrests, along with planned press conferences and press releases, seems maybe to be more about grand standing and posturing than about justice, and protecting the deer, bear and turkey population.




bingo!


----------



## tree cutter 08

Jake Allen said:


> I have read about every article I could, and get the same feeling. I am sure there are some notable, and chargeable offenses. But I would hazard a guess, when all said and done, about 90% of the charges will be dropped, or thrown out by a judge.
> 
> "The suspects are charged with more 140 offenses ranging from baiting hunting sites to littering. Each violation is a misdemeanor with a maximum $1,000 fine and a year in jail. Federal charges are possible, too."
> 
> http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-...obe-snares-90poaching-machine-others-i/nWXQd/
> 
> I once paid for my daily parking pass at Wildcat creek, and in the dark, did not properly punch all the way through the paper.
> I received a ticket in the mail some weeks later that read: "The United States of America versus J...... A .....H.........".
> 
> I had to actually take time from work, and appear before a Federal Judge. The Judge was amused and dropped the ticket.
> 
> Am I critical, maybe cynical, and always cautious and slow to place blame?: you betcha.



they mailed me a ticket also one time along with a letter. it was for littering with a can of corn that was full that i set on a stump while trout fishing. little did they know that i picked it up on my way out along with my extra fishing pole that i had packed in also. a month later is when i recived my ticket. it cost 75 dollars to rent a stump from the federal goverment that afternoon.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Under cover green man got a buddy of mine one time for litterin' while trout fishin'!! Stopped him when he left in his veh.. DUI'ed him and the probable cause was litterin arrest !! Come to find out, he was on private land and it all got throwed outta federal court !!


----------



## jguffie

Killinstuff said:


> It is true, if they are willing to break the game laws they will break other laws without thinking twice. Just how law breakers are. Dirtbags Lock them up for a long time



They are not dirtbags....and the ones would not break other laws


----------



## Old Hickory

The laws are about turning men into criminals; not protecting game. The government cannot control a free man; it can however, blackmail and control a man who is in violation of an ordinance. 

It is not in the interest of the government to see that men are free - but it IS in the interest of government to see that men are made into criminals on the slimmest of reasons. 

More criminals  = more government control. 

Fewer criminals = less government control. 

Which do you think they prefer? The government prefers that the average citizen be a criminal because they can then control their life.

It's funny that God can give us ten simple rules to live by - yet it takes hundreds of pages of rules to go hunting or fishing. 

It's absurd. The pathetic part is how many people choose to lick the boots of the Statists. 

I challenge all the Statist bootlickers on this site to publish a Ten Commandments of Bear Hunting. 

After all, if God can give us ten rules to live by, surely we can come up with ten rules to hunt by?


----------



## Scrub Buck

jguffie said:


> Ha ha ha dogs messed up several of your hunts huh....I guess folks
> have to blame something for not having a good hunt...if they messed u up so bad why did u keep going in there hunting instead of going somewhere else



So, Why should I have to go somewhere else?  I hunt legal.  I guess people who break the law hold first priority on PUBLIC LAND?  Right?


----------



## asc

Spook said:


> In addition to our farm we also own land on the Macon/Swain border in North Carolina, one side of a mountain, Brush Creek area. We spend a lot of time at our cabin half way up the mountain, only cabin there, I walk the trails we made 25 years ago every trip. Never seen a bear, I have seen rooting areas on occasion. The family about a mile away is in the honey business, no fences, never any problem with bears, this is pretty remote mountain territory. We have deer, resident, 20 plus turkey flock, grouse and trout. It seems this is a bear hunting cultural practice by the supportive responses. It may be a over reaction by DNR, just tell everybody it will be enforced to the letter. Just my take, no judgement. Mark


I asked a beeman one time if he had problems with bears, he just laughed and said only once., then went on to describe how much bears like anti-freeze.


----------



## jguffie

Scrub Buck said:


> So, Why should I have to go somewhere else?  I hunt legal.  I guess people who break the law hold first priority on PUBLIC LAND?  Right?




Yeah since that's what I said......I was saying if the dogs and the bait bothered you that bad why did u keep hunting there and not go somewhere else?? And I'm not real sure but I don't THINK they were baiting on public land so does that mean you were on private land...illegally?


----------



## Backlasher82

asc said:


> I asked a beeman one time if he had problems with bears, he just laughed and said only once.



It probably wasn't as funny to you as it was to him. It would be tough watching a beautiful dog like the one in your avatar suffer and die from antifreeze poisoning. 

Don't have any use for anyone who puts out poison where any animal can get to it.


----------



## jigman29

Backlasher82 said:


> It probably wasn't as funny to you as it was to him. It would be tough watching a beautiful dog like the one in your avatar suffer and die from antifreeze poisoning.
> 
> Don't have any use for anyone who puts out poison where any animal can get to it.



I agree,to many accidental kills from the poison.I hate to see anything suffer and I had a dog get into some antifreeze once and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.


----------



## Bkeepr

Since the price of corn has gone up, it seems that many more farmers are trying to help their bottom lines by growing corn to feed their livestock.  It must be highly frustrating to have a big field of corn one day, and then the next morning see it all flattened from a bear chowing down on it.

Too bad there isn't some kind of mountain farmer/bear hunter from the flatlands kind of exchange!


----------



## Coastie

Bkeepr said:


> Since the price of corn has gone up, it seems that many more farmers are trying to help their bottom lines by growing corn to feed their livestock.  It must be highly frustrating to have a big field of corn one day, and then the next morning see it all flattened from a bear chowing down on it.
> 
> Too bad there isn't some kind of mountain farmer/bear hunter from the flatlands kind of exchange!



Most of the farmers I know follow the 3S principle. Shoot, Shovel and shut up. There is a huge advantage in just shutting your mouth sometimes.


----------



## Coastie

Old Hickory said:


> The laws are about turning men into criminals; not protecting game. The government cannot control a free man; it can however, blackmail and control a man who is in violation of an ordinance.
> 
> It is not in the interest of the government to see that men are free - but it IS in the interest of government to see that men are made into criminals on the slimmest of reasons.
> 
> More criminals  = more government control.
> 
> Fewer criminals = less government control.
> 
> Which do you think they prefer? The government prefers that the average citizen be a criminal because they can then control their life.
> 
> It's funny that God can give us ten simple rules to live by - yet it takes hundreds of pages of rules to go hunting or fishing.
> 
> It's absurd. The pathetic part is how many people choose to lick the boots of the Statists.
> 
> I challenge all the Statist bootlickers on this site to publish a Ten Commandments of Bear Hunting.
> 
> After all, if God can give us ten rules to live by, surely we can come up with ten rules to hunt by?



I cannot come up with ten rules to hunt bears by  (or anything else ) only one.....Do that which is right. while the Lord gave man dominance over the animals he did not say they should slaughter them for no reason or to mistreat them.  Where do you draw he line?


----------



## Resica

Coastie said:


> Most of the farmers I know follow the 3S principle. Shoot, Shovel and shut up. There is a huge advantage in just shutting your mouth sometimes.



Is there not a provision for crop damage where shoot, shovel and shut up are not necessary?


----------



## Scrub Buck

Why do you people defend these folks?  I could care less if they go to church or would give me the shirt of of their back.  They have shown their true colors.  Jeez,  They earned/deserve what is coming to them.  Will they do it or break the law again?  Yes, most of you will defend them again.  Why?


----------



## Doug B.

Scrub Buck said:


> Why do you people defend these folks?  I could care less if they go to church or would give me the shirt of of their back.  They have shown their true colors.  Jeez,  They earned/deserve what is coming to them.  Will they do it or break the law again?  Yes, most of you will defend them again.  Why?



I have not seen anywhere on here where anybody has defended the crimes that may (or may not) have been committed. Besides, just because they have been charged with these counts does not mean they are guilty of the charges. Also that is not for us to decide here on a hunting forum, where it is easy for us to sit back and point our righteous finger at somebody because we are so perfect. That is for the judicial system to work out.

I will, however, try to defend (in what I hope is a decent and respectful manner) the false accusations that has went on in this thread, just like the one in the quote below.



Spook said:


> For you folks who justify the poachers and think they are just lazy hunters, you are wrong.
> That is not sport, these are the same people that break into your truck at the boat ramp, take your deer stand, litter, hunt under the influence and have zero respect for you and your family. In the woods, at the lake, or anywhere else you encounter them. Also, Federal Crime, they will face local and federal charges. Get off this site if you think they did no wrong. Mark.....Woody's member since Woody was here.




Other than the littering charge (again, this has not yet been proven. If it is proven in a court of law, then you can be mad at them for littering) all these other accusations are false. It doesn't matter where you encounter these men they will treat you and anyone else with utmost respect. They will not break into your truck, or steal anything of yours, or hunt under the influence.

Even if these men are convicted of these charges, it don't make me better than they are. I am still a human being that is very capable of making mistakes or doing something wrong, just like most other people are. Although there does seem to be some exceptions, as some people do seem to be perfect, at least in their own eyes.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman

Resica said:


> Is there not a provision for crop damage where shoot, shovel and shut up are not necessary?



For deer, yes... for bears, no.  They've been as protected as eagles around here for too long.  If you have a problematic bear, the DNR might be persuaded to come trap and remove it, but you you can't legally take matters into your own hands.


----------



## birddog52

Well its like this if you violate the law long enough odds are you will get caught and they have and they did (so enough said)


----------



## ranger374

Pnome looks like you opened a can o worms with this post!!!

It would be interesting to know if they were illegally hunting around us though............


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Yep. I thank it's time we move on down to the freshwater fishin' forum and get a head start a blastin' the jug fishers !!


----------



## tree cutter 08

Lets go fishin!


----------



## emusmacker

O, I tried to stay out but I just gotta say this.

no one is perfect, we all can and will make mistakes. But we also must pay for our mistakes. I've made some and had to pay. 

The same people that get so bent out of shape when these law breakers are being called "scum" would quickly jump up and call a person from the hood that paints graphitie all over the walls of public buildings a thug.  

I know that we are all humans and are capable of breaking laws, but please don"t try to rationalize or glamourize the behaviour of these folks.  They won't steal, yet they stole wildlife, and their reputation of law abiding hunters, they are respectful, yet disrespect game LAWS, give you the shirt off their backs yet give you a bad name as a dog hunter or any hunter.  I get tired of the "well these guys are the most upstanding guys in the world, and are honest, caring people" bull crap.  So what. they still got charged with breaking the law. 

doug B I don't know you as a person and you seem like a good guy, but there are some very notorious criminals that are church goers, friendy, easy to get along with and even have a good name in their community. That doesn"t excuse them from being called criminals.

and one last thing, Doug B do you think these guys should get the max for their crimes, why or wh not.


----------



## tree cutter 08

emusmacker said:


> O, I tried to stay out but I just gotta say this.
> 
> no one is perfect, we all can and will make mistakes. But we also must pay for our mistakes. I've made some and had to pay.
> 
> The same people that get so bent out of shape when these law breakers are being called "scum" would quickly jump up and call a person from the hood that paints graphitie all over the walls of public buildings a thug.
> 
> I know that we are all humans and are capable of breaking laws, but please don"t try to rationalize or glamourize the behaviour of these folks.  They won't steal, yet they stole wildlife, and their reputation of law abiding hunters, they are respectful, yet disrespect game LAWS, give you the shirt off their backs yet give you a bad name as a dog hunter or any hunter.  I get tired of the "well these guys are the most upstanding guys in the world, and are honest, caring people" bull crap.  So what. they still got charged with breaking the law.
> 
> doug B I don't know you as a person and you seem like a good guy, but there are some very notorious criminals that are church goers, friendy, easy to get along with and even have a good name in their community. That doesn"t excuse them from being called criminals.
> 
> and one last thing, Doug B do you think these guys should get the max for their crimes, why or wh not.



just wandering what yalls opinion is on the under cover agents that killed 2 of the bears in this ordeal? nobody commented on that so far. they had to kill them in order to keep the undercover investigation going and keep from being busted.


----------



## Doug B.

emusmacker said:


> and one last thing, Doug B do you think these guys should get the max for their crimes, why or wh not.



I am a firm believer in being punished for a crime. I have made some bad choices myself in life, got caught up with , and had to pay for it. It wasn't nobodies fault but mine. But, there should be a consequence for our actions if we do make the wrong choice.

I am not trying to rationalize or glamourize the behavior of these men. Neither, have I ever considered those that paint graffitti on buildings a thug. I just happen to know some of these men, and know how they are. Everybody else can go ahead and judge them without knowing them or knowing anything that went on if they want to. The littering charge they have on one of them is out of character for him. It makes me wonder if a lot of these charges have been trumped up.





tree cutter 08 said:


> just wandering what yalls opinion is on the under cover agents that killed 2 of the bears in this ordeal? nobody commented on that so far. they had to kill them in order to keep the undercover investigation going and keep from being busted.




I guess two wrongs actually do make a right.


----------



## Backlasher82

tree cutter 08 said:


> just wandering what yalls opinion is on the under cover agents that killed 2 of the bears in this ordeal? nobody commented on that so far. they had to kill them in order to keep the undercover investigation going and keep from being busted.



I don't see anything in the charges that justify agents going under cover, much less them personally killing bears. 

A 4 year undercover operation like this with agents being in such "deep cover" that they felt they had to kill bears to prevent bears being killed is going way overboard. 

They should have been writing citations as the violations occurred instead of saving them up for 4 years to make it sound good for the media. The guys probably would have stopped running dogs, littering, etc after they paid a few fines.


----------



## bearhunter39

I would be willing to bet this was no 4 year investigation,if it was and they only killed 10 bears they need to get rid of their dogs and get them some real bear dogs,I believe somebody got caught and they spilled the beans on these hunters,some of the charges may go back 4 years,but it is probably all they knew on them.I say if you can bait deer and chase deer with dogs in south Georgia,you should be able to do the same with bears in north Georgia they are way more of a problem than the deer,allow everybody 2 bears per year.


----------



## Backlasher82

bearhunter39 said:


> I would be willing to bet this was no 4 year investigation



I'll take that bet.

http://www.ncwildlife.org/News/NewsArticle/tabid/416/IndexId/8382/Default.aspx

From the article: "The four-year investigation targeted poachers in North Carolina and Georgia, with some work in adjacent states."


----------



## bearhunter39

I guess you believe eveything you read.


----------



## Backlasher82

bearhunter39 said:


> I guess you believe eveything you read.



So how much are we betting?


----------



## Jake Allen

Also in the same article:

“Operation Something Bruin documented hundreds of wildlife violations,” said Col. Dale Caveny, law enforcement chief for the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. “These arrests bring an immediate halt to those crimes and, we hope, will make would-be violators think twice before breaking the law.”

If this is also true, the arrests should have been made soon after the violations were documented.

Something about this whole thing does not pass the smell test. I believe this operation is likely 90% grandstanding, and 10% substance.
I will be curious the see the final outcomes on all of these charges and arrests.


----------



## tree cutter 08

i bet way over half the charges will get droped because the law broke the law.


----------



## Bkeepr

I agree with Jake Allen and the above.  Why did they wait 4 years, and only get 10 bears AND have the possum cops break the law?  The whole thing is smelly!


----------



## jonesey

Bkeepr said:


> I agree with Jake Allen and the above.  Why did they wait 4 years, and only get 10 bears AND have the possum cops break the law?  The whole thing is smelly!



Yep !! 4 years worth and they have to throw in littering charges , very smelly ..


----------



## GA DAWG

4 yrs I know of more bears killed than that and they were not baiting or running them with dogs. Don't think they were anyhow.


----------



## Scrub Buck

You are already allowed to shoot two bears in North Ga.  As far as going undercover.  How else do you get the information to break up illegal hunting operations that have been going on for years?  Police do it all the time to break up drug operations.  Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to protect your cover.  As far as the bears the officers shot.  They did what they had to do.


----------



## Browning Slayer

Bkeepr said:


> I agree with Jake Allen and the above.  Why did they wait 4 years, and only get 10 bears AND have the possum cops break the law?  The whole thing is smelly!




You folks don't understand undercover operations... These folks have been in the system for 4 years! They could have been normal agents and busted a couple folks.... This became part of their life! 

I'm sorry, if a LEO broke a law and killed a bear so he wouldn't break his cover and was able to bust a dozen more folks... I see NOTHING wrong with it... It happens EVERYDAY! What you should do is praise that LEO for doing something he doesn't believe in to catch the bad guy...


Save your speeches... These guys are flat out criminals if the charges are true... If the charges are true, they are thieves...

With that said, I hope they get a fair trial and hope the courts get it right...


----------



## T.P.

I bet the undercovers enjoyed the bear killing, I bet they'll tell their grandkids about it over and over.


----------



## emusmacker

So do you think it's ok if a cop chases a criminal in a car even if that cop has to break the speed limit?

Should an ambulance get a ticket for speeding to a medical emergency?

How bout when a LEO gets a call on the other side of the county, does he have the right to speed and get to that call?

Yes or no?


----------



## Resica

Browning Slayer said:


> You folks don't understand undercover operations... These folks have been in the system for 4 years! They could have been normal agents and busted a couple folks.... This became part of their life!
> 
> I'm sorry, if a LEO broke a law and killed a bear so he wouldn't break his cover and was able to bust a dozen more folks... I see NOTHING wrong with it... It happens EVERYDAY! What you should do is praise that LEO for doing something he doesn't believe in to catch the bad guy...
> 
> 
> Save your speeches... These guys are flat out criminals if the charges are true... If the charges are true, they are thieves and no different than any scum that would break into my camper and I would treat them the same...
> 
> With that said, I hope they get a fair trial and hope the courts get it right...


I agree.



T.P. said:


> I bet the undercovers enjoyed the bear killing, I bet they'll tell their grandkids about it over and over.



What does that have to do with anything? Nothing at all.


----------



## JustUs4All

There will be no further name calling in this thread.  
A member here has stated that he has been charged in this matter.  If you wish to discuss the facts of the matter, do so but do so with the knowledge that any further name calling will be considered a personal attack and will be dealt with accordingly.


----------



## tree cutter 08

i guess thats what makes us different. everybodys got there own opinion. my opinion is if they had to go as far to pull the trigger on them, they have no right charging them with what they did. if they got that far in there investagation they already had the proof they needed. completely diffrent than the ambulance speeding down the rd to help someone or a police speeding in a chase. now if the police is just burning up the rd for no reason then thats a diffrent story. guilty. 
i guess im a criminal and scum bag theif because i dont wear a seatbelt while driving down the rd.


----------



## emusmacker

tree cutter 08 said:


> i guess thats what makes us different. everybodys got there own opinion. my opinion is if they had to go as far to pull the trigger on them, they have no right charging them with what they did. if they got that far in there investagation they already had the proof they needed. completely diffrent than the ambulance speeding down the rd to help someone or a police speeding in a chase. now if the police is just burning up the rd for no reason then thats a diffrent story. guilty.
> i guess im a criminal and scum bag theif because i dont wear a seatbelt while driving down the rd.



Ok, let me try this and maybe you will get it.

Just pretend that I'm an undercover agent. I'm helping in a big drug bust, one that could lead to some pretty big busts. Important busts. 

now I have to act like one of theperps in order to get into the click,so I can gain trst of the perps I'm after.  

 am working on a big drug "buy" (still undercover) and in order for the drug dealer to sell me the drugs, andto prove I'm not law enforcement, I have to actually use th drug.

I really don't want to do it, but I als don't want to blow my cover,(still undercover) because then I wouldbe in danger.

Now I could say, wait, you're under arrest, and bust the small time dealer, or I could go ahead and take the drugs, and make the deal, then I gain trust and meet the Smuggler that is the one we are after to start with.  Do I have a right to arrest the guy, when I used the drugs too?  If I hadn't then a samll time  dealer would have been removed, and another one takes their place, but by removing the smuggler, the drug trade was slowed down.

sure, some of his buddies would say that I should do time too since I did the same "crime", but I had to do it, not willingly, but had to to keep my cover from being blown.

Oh and btw, the big time smuggler was a church goer, a very nice guy who helped people out. Even helped with the community. But he was a very big drug dealer. 


Hated to have to elaborate but some just don't get the whole undercover deal.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Bkeepr

I could understand if the agents used parts from dead, confiscated or road killed bears and caught people trying to buy them black market.  Or if they set up poachers to shoot a taxidermy bear.  But shooting a live bear, that is taking it out of the picture entirely  so a legal hunter can't harvest it and it won't be around to make more bears either.


----------



## Backlasher82

emusmacker said:


> Ok, let me try this and maybe you will get it.
> 
> Just pretend that I'm an undercover agent. I'm helping in a big drug bust, one that could lead to some pretty big busts. Important busts.
> 
> now I have to act like one of theperps in order to get into the click,so I can gain trst of the perps I'm after.
> 
> am working on a big drug "buy" (still undercover) and in order for the drug dealer to sell me the drugs, andto prove I'm not law enforcement, I have to actually use th drug.
> 
> I really don't want to do it, but I als don't want to blow my cover,(still undercover) because then I wouldbe in danger.
> 
> Now I could say, wait, you're under arrest, and bust the small time dealer, or I could go ahead and take the drugs, and make the deal, then I gain trust and meet the Smuggler that is the one we are after to start with.  Do I have a right to arrest the guy, when I used the drugs too?  If I hadn't then a samll time  dealer would have been removed, and another one takes their place, but by removing the smuggler, the drug trade was slowed down.
> 
> sure, some of his buddies would say that I should do time too since I did the same "crime", but I had to do it, not willingly, but had to to keep my cover from being blown.
> 
> Oh and btw, the big time smuggler was a church goer, a very nice guy who helped people out. Even helped with the community. But he was a very big drug dealer.
> 
> 
> Hated to have to elaborate but some just don't get the whole undercover deal.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Not helpful at all in this situation since we're not talking about some big time drug dealer felon.

These are misdemeanor charges and nobody's life was on the line if their cover was blown.

How about staying on topic and show how important it is for the agent to kill a bear so he can write a ticket for littering?


----------



## jonesey

Backlasher82 said:


> Not helpful at all in this situation since we're not talking about some big time drug dealer felon.
> 
> These are misdemeanor charges and nobody's life was on the line if their cover was blown.
> 
> How about staying on topic and show how important it is for the agent to kill a bear so he can write a ticket for littering?


X2


----------



## The mtn man

The Kingpin bear hunter, LOL


----------



## georgiashooter

Backlasher82 said:


> These are misdemeanor charges and nobody's life was on the line if their cover was blown.



How do you know?  Where you there?


----------



## tree cutter 08

x3, were talking bear hunting not drug dealers. completely diffrent. you never hear of undercover agents spotlighting deer to make a bust, going on squirrel, coons, coyote, deer, hog, dove, or whatever hunts and killing game to make a bust. theres more to this story than what we will here.


----------



## MudDucker

bearhunter39 said:


> I guess you believe eveything you read.



Why wouldn't he ... after all Lincoln said everything on the internet is true!


----------



## GTHUNT

Some of these guys were only using bait to train there pups with. 20% of kills were made by leo. Nice!


----------



## Backlasher82

Try to keep things in perspective here people. These are not dangerous criminal warlords were talking about, all of these are minor game violations that will result in fines. There have been no suggestions that these are dangerous or violent men so comparing them to drug kingpins is ridiculous. 

This operation went on for 4 years and resulted in about 980 charges ranging from baiting bears to littering. This is about 1.5 citations per day. I don't know what the average is for citations written per day without this big operation but I suspect the number is about the same.

Over the 4 year investigation 10 bears were killed, 2 of those killed by undercover agents. So Crockett and Tubbs killed 20% of the bears to protect their cover, I don't agree with their tactics. 

This whole thing stinks to high heaven of a publicity stunt and they waited 4 years to come up with a big number of charges to make it sound bigger than it was. I doubt "Game warden writes 10 tickets this week" would have made headlines.

Full disclosure:

While I live in Rabun where a lot of this took place I don't know any of the people involved and I'm not defending their violation of game laws. 

The numbers sound impressive until you take things in perspective, then it sounds like a big to-do over minor violations of game laws. Nothing more, nothing less. They will pay their fines and go home to their families, probably being more mindful of game laws in the future.


----------



## emusmacker

So EVERY single charge was a misdemeaner?  No felonies huh?

And the situation I used was showing how undercover agents sometimes have to break the laws to catch the perp. 

So again I ask, is it ok for an undercover agent to shoot up in order to make an arrest?  Both instances the undercover agent is breaking the law. Why is all of a sudden ok when drugs are involved, but when a bear is involved, it's a problem.


----------



## Backlasher82

emusmacker said:


> So EVERY single charge was a misdemeaner?  No felonies huh?
> 
> And the situation I used was showing how undercover agents sometimes have to break the laws to catch the perp.
> 
> So again I ask, is it ok for an undercover agent to shoot up in order to make an arrest?  Both instances the undercover agent is breaking the law. Why is all of a sudden ok when drugs are involved, but when a bear is involved, it's a problem.



Again, I'll say let's stay on the subject and ask relevant questions.

The question in this case is "Is it OK for an agent to kill a bear to make an arrest".

I say it is not OK.


----------



## Scrub Buck

GTHUNT said:


> Some of these guys were only using bait to train there pups with. 20% of kills were made by leo. Nice!



Directly from the rule book.

Northern Zone

Hunting bears with dogs or over bait is prohibited.  Why would you ever train one to do it?

Your point?


----------



## T.P.

Scrub Buck said:


> Directly from the rule book.
> 
> Northern Zone
> 
> Hunting bears with dogs or over bait is prohibited.  Why would you ever train one to do it?
> 
> Your point?



The hounds can be hunted in places other than the Northern Zone of Ga. Train 'em here, hunt 'em there. I think that was his point.


----------



## Scrub Buck

Hence the multi-state investigation?


----------



## jigman29

Any good dog man knows you have to hunt your dogs often to keep them in shape.If you can legally train your dogs in georgia and not have to drive to another state to do it why wouldn't you.I know the use of bait isn't legal but I'm just talking about why people train them if it's not legal to hunt them here.


----------



## Scrub Buck

So, good dog men bait bears and run dogs in a state where both are illegal during hunting season in order to keep their dogs trained and in shape so you can go out of state to hunt with them?  Boy, this whole situation is starting to make sense to me now.


----------



## The mtn man

Scrub Buck said:


> So, good dog men bait bears and run dogs in a state where both are illegal during hunting season in order to keep their dogs trained and in shape so you can go out of state to hunt with them?  Boy, this whole situation is starting to make sense to me now.



training is allowed in north ga. just not the bait. No need to attack me, just sayin, in case someoe doesn't know.


----------



## jigman29

Never saw where anyone said it was legal to hunt over bait just legal to train dogs.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman

My opinion isn't a popular one but it's based on personal experience with bear doggers... 97% of bear hunters give the other 3% a bad name.


----------



## Scrub Buck

Just pulling the onion back.  So, the whole picture can be seen.  I have been known to attack people as you call it.  I just call it as I see it.  I know you can train dogs in Ga.  Was just wondering why someone would spend the money, time, and effort. When you cannot use them in the area?  Seems to me it would be cheaper and a heck of a lot less wasted effort to just go and hunt a bear?  We are talking about good guys.  Right?


----------



## Backlasher82

Scrub Buck said:


> Just pulling the onion back.  So, the whole picture can be seen.  I have been known to attack people as you call it.  I just call it as I see it.  I know you can train dogs in Ga.  Was just wondering why someone would spend the money, time, and effort. When you cannot use them in the area?  Seems to me it would be cheaper and a heck of a lot less wasted effort to just go and hunt a bear?  We are talking about good guys now.  Right?



If you look at Rabun county on the map, you literally take one step out of Georgia into North and South Carolina. I don't know what the laws in those states are on dog hunting but I can see why folks wouldn't want to travel too far just to train their dogs.


----------



## The mtn man

Scrub Buck said:


> Just pulling the onion back.  So, the whole picture can be seen.  I have been known to attack people as you call it.  I just call it as I see it.  I know you can train dogs in Ga.  Was just wondering why someone would spend the money, time, and effort. When you cannot use them in the area?  Seems to me it would be cheaper and a heck of a lot less wasted effort to just go and hunt a bear?  We are talking about good guys now.  Right?



nc has the bear dog hunting season, nc hunters train dogs in ga, cause, the bears are easier to run, they are not use to dogs runnin them,remember, a lot of the nc hunters can be in ga in just a few min. driving, I can see ga from  my house, also there are some guys that live in ga, bear hunt in nc, train dogs in ga.It's a liitle bit complex from the outside lookin in, but its a fairly simple concept, once you learn how the training and the hunting tie together, the bait is used, so they can train dogs, and not spend too much time trying to find a hot bear track,also during hot weather, if the dogs have to hunt too hard, it can be dangerous for the dogs, they also use the bait for a quick training hunt, mostly for welfair of the hounds during summer, they avoid heat stroke at all cost.This should cover every thing.


----------



## Scrub Buck

Obviously, these people didn't either?


----------



## tree cutter 08

Tommrows forecast is the start of a warming trend. My spare time will be spent outside working and going fishing so I will no longer have time to comment in this bear poaching thread. Y'all hold the fort down!!!!!


----------



## Nitram4891

cklem said:


> nc has the bear dog hunting season, nc hunters train dogs in ga, cause, the bears are easier to run, they are not use to dogs runnin them,remember, a lot of the nc hunters can be in ga in just a few min. driving, I can see ga from  my house, also there are some guys that live in ga, bear hunt in nc, train dogs in ga.It's a liitle bit complex from the outside lookin in, but its a fairly simple concept, once you learn how the training and the hunting tie together, the bait is used, so they can train dogs, and not spend too much time trying to find a hot bear track,also during hot weather, if the dogs have to hunt too hard, it can be dangerous for the dogs, they also use the bait for a quick training hunt, mostly for welfair of the hounds during summer, they avoid heat stroke at all cost.This should cover every thing.



I don't run my bird dogs in the summer (for their own welfare) and they do just fine when season comes around.


----------



## The mtn man

You can fish, I aint gonna bite.


----------



## Nitram4891

cklem said:


> You can fish, I aint gonna bite.



If the law is no baiting bears, then I disagree with baiting bears to train dogs.  I don't care if it makes training easier.  That's my opinion.  If everyone wants the law changed, attend the DNR meetings.


----------



## bearhunter39

Nitram4891 said:


> I don't run my bird dogs in the summer (for their own welfare) and they do just fine when season comes around.


There is a big difference between a  bird dog walking around pointing birds,and a bear dog running 8 or 10hrs in the mountains.


----------



## Nitram4891

bearhunter39 said:


> There is a big difference between a  bird dog walking around pointing birds,and a bear dog running 8 or 10hrs in the mountains.



I'm not saying my dogs don't get exercise, but they don't forget what birds smell like in the off season.


----------



## Scrub Buck

One last question?  Does anyone know if they played the theme song in their truck or car when they did all of this from the TV show Dukes of Hazard?  If they did.   I can see why so many people support their activities?


----------



## Resica

What'd you do "cklem", delete your posts . I answered your post about bear populatons. I'd like to see your info on  8-10,000 bears in Pa.  Thanks.


----------



## Mtn Hunter

OK, I'll weigh in. No true bear or coonhunter (read houndsman) wants to see anybody that broke the law get away wit it. The problem is that instead of trying to protect the resource it feels to every houndsman I've talked to that Law enforcement is trying to get the houndsmen out of the woods because it is no longer PC to hunt with dogs. A lot of people that should be trying to help us protect the sport are trying to get us to stay home too. Just remember if it happens to us it WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.


----------



## jigman29

I was reading the local paper and they have an arcticle on the bust.According to the lawyers of all the bears killed the undercover agent killed more than the rest.Including the 30 pound cub,sounds like they may have did just as much bad as the guys being investigated,or even more.You can go to pigmans website and watch episode number 46 I think and see where he hunted with these guys according to the paper.One question I have is why is it illegal to guide hunters on national forest land but it is ok to guide fisherman on public waters?


----------



## The mtn man

Resica said:


> What'd you do "cklem", delete your posts . I answered your post about bear populatons. I'd like to see your info on  8-10,000 bears in Pa.  Thanks.



Had a good reason, I didn't see the dates on the PA population, I was obviously looking at old stats. NC and GA was on target.Check PM.


----------



## MULE

Scrub Buck said:


> Just pulling the onion back.  So, the whole picture can be seen.  I have been known to attack people as you call it.  I just call it as I see it.  I know you can train dogs in Ga.  Was just wondering why someone would spend the money, time, and effort. When you cannot use them in the area?  Seems to me it would be cheaper and a heck of a lot less wasted effort to just go and hunt a bear?  We are talking about good guys.  Right?


So why would guys Fly fish for trout, only to throw every fish back? Running dogs isn't about the killing. To a couple of these guys that got into trouble I guess it was, but to 99% of the dog guys out there it isn't.


----------



## emusmacker

I seriously doubt that game wardens are trying to run dog hunters away? Why, what do they have to gain by getting rid of rabbit, coon, or bear hunters with dogs?

Sounds to me like the dog hunters feel slighted. I used to coon hunt and love it. Still do, like to rabbit hunt some, never have bear hunted, and would love to try it, but unfortunately, the few bad guys hurt the many good guys.  Not all dog hunters are bad, these guys were caught breaking the law, plain and simple. 

Backlash, again I asked the question, are all the charges misdemeanor or are any felonies?


----------



## Backlasher82

emusmacker said:


> Backlash, again I asked the question, are all the charges misdemeanor or are any felonies?


 
I don't know, if you have a link post it up.


----------



## 35 Whelen

http://www.gohuntgeorgia.com/node/3219


----------



## emusmacker

Backlasher82 said:


> I don't know, if you have a link post it up.



I don't know either, but you're the one that was saying minor charges.


----------



## Backlasher82

emusmacker said:


> I don't know either, but you're the one that was saying minor charges.



That's because every article I've read only had minor charges listed. I thought maybe you had found something I missed, guess not.


----------



## LIB MR ducks

jigman29 said:


> I was reading the local paper and they have an arcticle on the bust.According to the lawyers of all the bears killed the undercover agent killed more than the rest.Including the 30 pound cub,sounds like they may have did just as much bad as the guys being investigated,or even more.You can go to pigmans website and watch episode number 46 I think and see where he hunted with these guys according to the paper.One question I have is why is it illegal to guide hunters on national forest land but it is ok to guide fisherman on public waters?



And we all know the lawyers are going to tell the truth...


----------



## emusmacker

Now LI B, you know them lawyers are sworn to tell the truth. LOL.

And you also know everything printed in the paper is true.

seems like when law enforcememnt do their job, they get bashed. But I bet the same folks that complain about them will be the 1st to call em. 

I always wanted to be a game warden, but I'd definately be hated, all the little pathetic - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - stories, and whining would make it worse.  And then when those that complained and bashed the LEO called about some illegal activity, I'd probably "have a flat tire", or "be low on fuel and have to drive way across county to fil up".  Just saing

I get sooo tired of th folks running their mouth about wardens doing their job.  These same folks will also complain about illegal activity and cal LEo's.  Kinda hypocritical.


----------



## The mtn man

Just heard today, some charges were dismissed, mainly due to law enforcement tactics, fox training case was thrown out, heard it had to do with gw taking suspects 8 year old daughter off schoolbus, then arresting her father and leaving her home alone, suspects friend said, judge threw out case, and suspect is filling lawsuit against state. has anyone else heard any of this, if anyone is not familiar with this, suspect was accused of operating a bear pen.He was properly licensed for a fox pen.2 other cases, one was charged with trapping bears in a live trap, he was fined several thousand, also no hunting for 8 years, other was fined thousands, with 1 year probation for baiting.


----------



## mick3

Nothing has happened in nc court as of yet. Lots of rumors flying at this time. The rumor about the little girl never happened it's just the only thing the father could say to take the heat off of him.


----------



## The mtn man

mick3 said:


> Nothing has happened in nc court as of yet. Lots of rumors flying at this time. The rumor about the little girl never happened it's just the only thing the father could say to take the heat off of him.



That did sound a little strange to me.So he didn't have his hearing and judge dismissed case?


----------



## mick3

Nope


----------



## gatorhater

Imagine that " a poacher lying" who would have thunk it. LOL


----------



## Throwback

ten of them were sentenced so far. 

http://outdoornewsdaily.com/ten-defendants-sentenced-for-illegal-hunting-activities/


----------



## Backlasher82

Looks like hunting hogs at night is illegal in NC. I wonder if the hog problem isn't as bad up there or they just aren't taking it seriously yet.


----------



## The mtn man

I think it was illegal, before, but is legal now, N.C, game laws concerning hogs have been strange over the years.They have changed but most folks are still confused.I would have thought operation something bruin had to do with bears, not hunting feral hogs, wierd! I guess the bear poaching wasn't as bad as folks thought.


----------



## Dan DeBord

Sounds like 3 them boys won't be hog hunting for 2 yrs.


----------



## gobbleinwoods

Dan DeBord said:


> Sounds like 3 them boys won't be hog hunting for 2 yrs.



don't make book on that statement.


----------



## huntindawg

30 days in jail for hunting a non-game species at night???

Just stupid.


----------



## Dan DeBord

gobbleinwoods said:


> don't make book on that statement.



Read Throwback's  #235.


----------



## injun joe

Do the sentences and the statements by the U.S. Attorneys seem in-congruent to anyone else?


----------



## pnome

huntindawg said:


> 30 days in jail for hunting a non-game species at night???
> 
> Just stupid.



Gotta agree.  Fines and 30 days community service would be my choice.  Have em' all go clean trash out of the national forest.

They're not repaying any sort of debt to nature by being in prison.


----------



## huntindawg

pnome said:


> Gotta agree.  Fines and 30 days community service would be my choice.  Have em' all go clean trash out of the national forest.
> 
> They're not repaying any sort of debt to nature by being in prison.



Exactly, but the state spent all this money on this loooong sting operation, even gave it a stupid name, and all they got on these three guys was hunting invasive, non-native feral hogs at night, so they're gonna throw the book at them which in turn is gonna cost us, the taxpayers, even more money.  

Just absolutely stupid..but what do you expect from government these days.


----------



## The mtn man

pnome said:


> Gotta agree.  Fines and 30 days community service would be my choice.  Have em' all go clean trash out of the national forest.
> 
> They're not repaying any sort of debt to nature by being in prison.



I think he meant charging someone for hunting a non game species at night was just stupid,


----------



## pnome

cklem said:


> I think he meant charging someone for hunting a non game species at night was just stupid,



I've got no comment on the law.  I just think the punishment is stupid.


----------



## The mtn man

pnome said:


> I've got no comment on the law.  I just think the punishment is stupid.



I think we will see, when the smoke clears, that the ones who were caught for poaching actual game animals, will probably face stiff penalties, but like you say, the dept for vioaltions will never be repayed to the people, fines go who knows where, jail time only costs taxpayers more, and serves no purpose, I agree with you that if your caught killing something illegal, the fine should go straight to the area the violation took place, and spent in a way to better the local, wildlife management.


----------



## gobbleinwoods

Dan DeBord said:


> Read Throwback's  #235.



Maybe I wasn't clear but I would guess that they will be hunting in the next two years.   Illegally, yes.


----------



## VenisonMan

Thankfully none is central Georgia where I hunt.


----------



## deerassassin22

Well after reading this thread I really want to get a bear with my bow and judging from some comments bears are like fleas I would have no issues getting from fort Benning to your location with bow and camper just need and address or mgrs grid


----------



## kc65

.....update....http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/01/20/attention-sportsmen-in-wnc-and-north-georgia/


----------



## NCHillbilly

That about sums it up in some of the cases. BTW, I love the picture of the Asian bear used at the top of the story.


----------



## fredw

kc65 said:


> .....update....http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2014/01/20/attention-sportsmen-in-wnc-and-north-georgia/



If true this is a shame.


----------



## BornNRaised

Yup


----------



## GTHUNT

Same story I was told when this went down. Kinda messed up don't ya think?


----------



## NEGA Hog Hunter

same  story  I  heard  from some involved .  Now  lets  see  if  this  makes  the  prime  time  news ,  now that most have been cleared of any violations.


----------



## tree cutter 08

Figures


----------



## rwynn

Well this topic dried up rather quickly.


----------



## T.P.

I'm not surprised at all.


----------



## Jeff C.

Now who are the scum and law breakers?


----------



## The mtn man

Now, lets go back and read the entire thread, LOL.


----------



## PappyHoel

Wow just wow... It's like no ones home or family is safe from government agents.  Makes me sad to think the kids have PTSD now.


----------



## rwynn

That last news article kinda reminds me of the South Park episode where the detective goes under cover as a prostitute to arrest men who solicit them..... Only thing is.... he always waits until the "deed" is done before he makes the bust.


----------



## The mtn man

rwynn said:


> That last news article kinda reminds me of the South Park episode where the detective goes under cover as a prostitute to arrest men who solicit them..... Only thing is.... he always waits until the "deed" is done before he makes the bust.



Yep, after undercover GW got through having some fun, they just started trumping up charges and arresting everyone around them.That's the way I understood it went down last year, but all I heard is how all these hunters were scum, thieves and drug dealers.Oh well, Also if leo came to my house , made a specticle and left my crying kids there unattended, I would be angry too.Especially for something they actually did.


----------



## tree cutter 08

That's a bad peach crop.


----------



## The mtn man

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...rZfIHuG6gxMB0-hdg&sig2=jY9oknBLzvIOpfwkGZh1AQ


----------



## olcowman

NCHillbilly said:


> That about sums it up in some of the cases. BTW, I love the picture of the Asian bear used at the top of the story.



I figured them kind of bears is pretty rare up round your parts?


----------



## JustUs4All

I wonder whether they were able to make those littering charges stick?
http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=7663779&postcount=139


----------



## The mtn man

This will put a face on the mtn. folks that have been caught up in this mess, Enjoy, mabe a little long.


----------



## Nannyman

The real problem is Game Wardens give out warnings. Stop giving out warnings and bust some_______ and poaching and driving on closed roads and such will stop. They do it here and so it goes on. 
No different than speeding. Bust everyone and it will be greatly reduced. 
You smoke dope, bam max fine or jail. You drive drunk, max fine. You steal gum, bam max fine. It is really very simple. 
Liberals say, Oh it's just pot or just gum. Bam, max punishment. End of problem.


----------



## GTHUNT

Game wardens don't give out warnings. bam. Read the recent stories. It looks like they should get the max fines for the illegal actions committed. If true.


----------



## JustUs4All

But what if the PoPo asks for a ride in your car then he shoots a deer out of the window but wants to arrest you for hunting from a roadway, at night, out of season, without permission, while wearing no orange, and --- littering?


----------



## jonesey

Wander if the pigman will mention his fines on the next big tv episode ...


----------



## oatmeal1

Nannyman said:


> The real problem is Game Wardens give out warnings. Stop giving out warnings and bust some_______ and poaching and driving on closed roads and such will stop. They do it here and so it goes on.
> No different than speeding. Bust everyone and it will be greatly reduced.
> You smoke dope, bam max fine or jail. You drive drunk, max fine. You steal gum, bam max fine. It is really very simple.
> Liberals say, Oh it's just pot or just gum. Bam, max punishment. End of problem.



Nannyman, Did you watch that video? Do you really think that is the problem?


----------



## tree cutter 08

They don't give warnings.


----------



## T.P.

Good video. Looks like some officers got some explaining to do.


----------



## bfriendly

Nannyman said:


> The real problem is Game Wardens give out warnings. Stop giving out warnings and bust some_______ and poaching and driving on closed roads and such will stop. They do it here and so it goes on.
> No different than speeding. Bust everyone and it will be greatly reduced.
> You smoke dope, bam max fine or jail. You drive drunk, max fine. You steal gum, bam max fine. It is really very simple.
> Liberals say, Oh it's just pot or just gum. Bam, max punishment. End of problem.



BAM huh?  I hope you dont wear a badge


----------



## bfriendly

oatmeal1 said:


> Nannyman, Did you watch that video? Do you really think that is the problem?



Of course its not......the problem is folks with badges goin BAM!


----------



## nimrod

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/news/item/12303-lots-of-problems-with-something-bruin

From the article.......



In 2009, Arnold (undercover alias "Chad Ryan") and Davey Webb (alias “Davey Williams”), a wildlife agent from Georgia, visited a gun shop in Bryson City. According to the shop owner, they stated that they wanted to get involved in bear hunting and asked for recommendations of hunting guides in the area. However, according to subsequent reports, they were supposed to be infiltrating known poaching circles. The gun shop owner told them about some hunters whom he knew in Graham County. Arnold and Webb hunted with the men in Graham County and also with men from Swain, Jackson, Haywood and other counties from 2009-2012.

In late 2010 through 2011, under time constraints, Arnold and Webb resorted to various measures to try to entice the hunters to break laws. Apparently, in some cases these officers were law-breakers, not the hunters. In fact, in a recent case in Haywood County, an agent admitted to breaking 39 wildlife laws.

State and federal agents employed Gestapo-like techniques in search and seizure of so-called evidence, including improper service of search-warrants. In one house, screaming 3- and 4-year old children were left unsupervised for a period of time while the parents were in handcuffs outside the home. 

“Operation Something Bruin” was not cheap. The State and Federal Wildlife spent more than $2 million of their budget — taxpayer dollars — to execute the investigation.

To date, hunters who have had jury trials have not been convicted because Arnold and Webb could not provide any evidence. Enticements by agents and/or prosecutors were made, including offers to drop charges if one hunter allegedly involved would plead to one charge and lose his license for only one day. The hunter refused and requested a jury trial. In this case, all charges were dropped due to lack of evidence.






I'm glad these men were given the chance to defend themselves in a court of law. Luckily they didn't have to stand trial in the court of public opinion as seen in the early parts of this thread.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman

Keep in mind, this "article" was written by the sister of one of the accused...


----------



## trout man

If the govt spent 2 million on this operation and they do not get convictions, the leo are a joke. What a waste of money!


----------



## tree cutter 08

2 million dollars would have planted every mt wma food plot for yrs!


----------



## JustUs4All

And if they had just concentrated on the littering to start with, imagine how clean the place would be now.


----------



## T.P.

I do hate a litterbug.


----------



## Boar Hunter

This reinforces to me that government is out of control and can't be trusted.


----------



## Resica

GTHUNT said:


> Game wardens don't give out warnings. bam. Read the recent stories. It looks like they should get the max fines for the illegal actions committed. If true.





tree cutter 08 said:


> They don't give warnings.



Where don't they give warnings? They do up here.


----------



## tree cutter 08

They like to collect$


----------



## The mtn man

I'v never seen GW give a warning, always has been the maximum fine, The only one I had was for starting a dove shoot at 11:50 am, wasnt suppose to start until 12 noon, it wasn't even in the regs, we took it to court, judge told us to rip citation up and throw in the trash, after he scolded the GW for wasting his time.Boy was GW mad!


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## mick3

Keep in mind the lady that wrote this has a son that is charged.  How many people would go tell their family everything they done that broke the law?  It's funny to hear people blame the law for the law that they broke.  It's never their fault that they shot the bear illegally or the deer that just happened to be in front of the spotlight when he pulled the trigger.  It's the laws fault for allowing it to be out there I guess.  It's also funny to hear everyone bash the game warden until someone is poaching on their property and then the first person they call is the game warden.  Maybe everyone should wait to bash until all of the facts come out after all of the court cases.


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## JustUs4All

Yep, I can't stand littering.


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## The mtn man

I agree we should wait until it is all out in the open before we jump to conclusions,as far as the raids are concerned,myself included,however it is fact that the GW done most of the poaching.at least most of the killing.


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## mick3

At this point stating the law done most of the poaching is coming from the ones charged.  Again of course the ones charged are going to try to make it sound like they done nothing wrong.  Has society really got to the point that they believe the person charged over the law enforcement officer.  If so then why have law at all.


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## The mtn man

Shooting 6 out of the 10 bears sound like most of the poaching.I won't comment on the entrapment techiques they used until the court cases are all over.I won't disagree that alot of poaching has went on around WNC for a long time.But being local I see more deer poaching from the road than anything else.There are several groups of guys that just kill everything they can for some reason, but I'm sure that is not unique to this area.Also at this point in America, any government Authorities are going to be suspect, there have been alot of good folks in my area that have tried to help GW, instead were thrown under the bus by the GW by telling suspects, that so and so has been watching you,and calling me when they think your poaching, there has been some retaliation, most folks around here won't give the GW in our area the time of day.


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## mick3

Is this 6 out of 10 bears killed fact or just what was told at the forum that was put on by the individuals charged.  All information that is put in the papers at this point is coming from the suspects charged.  And the same thing applies for entrapment accusations.  It's all hear say until proven otherwise.  Once all facts are released from these cases I'm sure all convicted will claim they are innocent even if they plea guilty.


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## The mtn man

Yea, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.I just hope undercover guys didn't do all the things their accused of. As far as the number of bears being killed, apparently 10 bears were killed during the entire investigation, the undercover agents say they had to shoot the bears they did so they wouldn't blow their cover, I believe that will hurt them in the court of public opinion.Possibly will be a major talking point with a jury.


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## rem 300

I hope the true FACTS will come out


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