# "A positive attitude in the face of uncertainty"



## ambush80 (Aug 7, 2016)

That's how Sam Harris defined "faith"on his newest podcast (which so far is really interesting). 

Thumbs up or thumbs down?


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## gordon 2 (Aug 7, 2016)

In the face of certainty is a better way to say it and it is more correct. 

If I was to say, "America right or wrong" without the rest of the context as a definition of being patriotic for example  it would not do justice to what the author really meant and could possibly be a purposefully deceptive or ignorant use of the saying with effect to distort what the author meant.

I think this is the case here with faith. Incorrectly assimilated faith can seem to be as Sam Harris might state. It is more of a opinion than an objective fact.  Like I say, many know faith as being certain and revealing with certainty  the essential and true reality of our existence. 

Paul says something like this, ( I paraphrase) " Faith is the means of already having what is hoped for,  and to know the realities that we as of yet do not see."

So faith is the means of having and knowing with certainty... "things" positive and negative about most anything.

It is very hard to describe if one has not been there... and got most of their info from books in which case some assume of knowing what they are talking about... yet don't. 

There is a saying that to be a disciple is more difficult for a rich man than a poor man. A twenty point higher difference on an IQ score and a very good memory compared to ordinary mortals should have been added to the rich man's purse perhaps...in the saying.


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## ambush80 (Aug 8, 2016)

gordon 2 said:


> In the face of certainty is a better way to say it and it is more correct.
> 
> If I was to say, "America right or wrong" without the rest of the context as a definition of being patriotic for example  it would not do justice to what the author really meant and could possibly be a purposefully deceptive or ignorant use of the saying with effect to distort what the author meant.
> 
> ...



This is a self deception.  How could you possibly know that with certainty?


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## gordon 2 (Aug 8, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> This is a self deception.  How could you possibly know that with certainty?



I know it is difficult, but here it is again:

Paul says something like this, ( I paraphrase) " Faith is the means of already having what is hoped for, and to know the realities that we as of yet do not see."

In christian parlance the worlds known by faith are certain, including the uncertain world of those without this faith.

It sounds high or low minded ( depending of perspective perhaps) and self deceptive perhaps, but it works. It offers a cosmology where itself and everything else fits in orderly fashion and can be known ( as in accounted for) and explained by effects and motivations.

For the faithful, which Paul describes, uncertainty is a rare bird and where perhaps and maybes are instruments of patience more than not.


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## Madman (Aug 24, 2016)

That is a good definition for the AA forum.  I would expect no more.

Much like the paramedic's response to the car crash victim who has a fence post through his chest, even though he knows death is imminent.


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## stringmusic (Aug 24, 2016)

I like this one better.

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."


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## ambush80 (Aug 26, 2016)

Madman said:


> That is a good definition for the AA forum.  I would expect no more.
> 
> Much like the paramedic's response to the car crash victim who has a fence post through his chest, even though he knows death is imminent.



And what should a Christian paramedic say to a Hindu with a post through his chest?

Saying something positive would depend on the victim.  Saying something positive to a Hindu might be "May you come back in a higher form."  If you wanted to comfort me, for example, you might want to say "Well, now you get to find out."  I'm curious about what's after death.  If it's "nothing", as I suspect, then the answer won't matter anymore.  If it's one of the thousands of things that people believe happens then it won't matter anymore either. 

This can be discussed better here:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=876990


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## EverGreen1231 (Aug 29, 2016)

Sam Harris is wrong again.


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