# Cotton mouth in NE GA.



## Flaustin1

Well i confirmed my suspicions without a doubt last wednesday.  We killed a cottonmouth in Lincoln county near clarkes hill lake.  Just shy of 4ft long.  I will try to post some pics later.


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## watermedic

I dont really consider Lincoln Cty northern GA. Cotton mouths are common around here.


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## Flaustin1

Well its in the northern game zone.  That makes it a northern county to me.


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## holler tree

watermedic said:


> I dont really consider Lincoln Cty northern GA. Cotton mouths are common around here.


  x2. sorry, I know there is a "mountian " in lincolnton but your a long ways from n.e. ga.


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## safebuilder

not trying to hijack here but when I move to Dahlonega from Athens the folks of Lumpkin county said I was from South GA and when I would go to Camilla or Moultrie from Athens they would say I was from the mountains....Like lots in life its perspective


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## Flaustin1

North central Ga. then, either way the point is that alot of people including some of the DNR claim that the cottonmouth dosnt live that far north.


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## GA DAWG

Let's see the pictures.


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## Flaustin1

Trying to get them from my e-mail onto here.  yahoo changed there format and i cant figure it out.  PM me a phone number and i can send a pic if youd like


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## Ruger#3

I've killed cotton mouths in mountain states way north of GA.


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## wareagle5.0

We had some so called wildlife expert (guest speaker at a cattlemans meeting) tell us that there were no cottonmouths as far north as Pine Mountain. Those old cattle farmers nearly laughed him out of the room. He kept telling them they were misIDing them. He was a yankee.


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## Ballplayer

wareagle5.0 said:


> We had some so called wildlife expert (guest speaker at a cattlemans meeting) tell us that there were no cottonmouths as far north as Pine Mountain. Those old cattle farmers nearly laughed him out of the room. He kept telling them they were misIDing them. He was a yankee.



Those same experts will tell you they're not aggressive either, I know better having had to run from quite a few with their white mouth wide open ready to bite.  NOTE: (Its hard to run  on a beaver dam !    )


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## Kendallbearden

I can tell you without a doubt, i've seen a couple of them on the banks of lake allatoona. I don't care if folks say they aren't there or not. I've seen them with my own eyes. Next time i see one, i'll kill it and post pics of the head and fangs. Guess that's the only way to prove it.


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## Arrow3

I have seen ONE up here (Athens area) in all my ramblings....He too came from Clarks Hill...Most people mistake banded water snakes as cottonmouths..


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## GA DAWG

I myself have never seen one this far north. Im in the woods a lot. Have saw bout every other kind of snake we have. Even a gator but no cotton mouths.


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## Backlasher82

Guess it depends on how picky you want to get about what you consider NE GA.

I've always considered anything north of Macon to be north GA and anything east of Macon to be east GA.

Everybody has always called Athens NE GA and Clarks Hill isn't much south of Athens. Guess you could call the Hill ESE GA if you want to get picky.

Then again if you want to get that picky, only us folks up here in Rabun county live in NE GA so I guess it all depends on how far you want to take it.

Well it looks like there may be more to NE GA than just Rabun county after all.  

http://www.northeastga.com/northeast-georgia-map.htm


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## skiff23

Been Cotton Mouths  in Lincoln and Wilkes counties all my life. I killed the biggest I have ever seen on Morris Creek near the Fishing Creek WMA about 6 years ago, it still makes me shiver thinking about it. He head was big as my fist and I am a grown man. 
 Dont beleive anything the goverment tells you. There are bears here from time to time , and yes there have been big cats sited around here before too !


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## Flaustin1

Thats exactly where we killed this one.


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## Sterlo58

Ruger#3 said:


> I've killed cotton mouths in mountain states way north of GA.



Where ?


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## Twenty five ought six

It was many years ago, but we killed a cottonmouth in a creek about 3 miles from the state capital.  No doubt about it, as it struck several times at the laborer trying to hit with a swing blade.  Classic cottonmouth habitat.

Also saw one killed along the Chattahoochee River along about Roswell in the along about 1960.  River was not as cold as it is now --


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## Turkey Trax

lincoln county aint even close to being NE Georgia.


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## Kendallbearden

Sterlo58 said:


> Where ?




Since he said that, i actually thought of another one. I saw one one time in the little pigeon river in tennessee. I had forgotten about it until he said mountain states, and it made me remember it. I'm absolutely 100 percent positive it was a cotton mouth. It was coiled on a big flat rock out in the river, pretty close to the bank. My mother saw the rock, and went to sit down on it, and just about had a heart attack. She jumped back and yelled snake, and i went to investigate.The snake opened it's mouth in the classic cotton mouth defensive pose. Once she ran away, it turned and swam off the rock and up onto the bank where i lost it. There is no mistaking a cotton mouth when they give you the open-mouth "i dare you" look. As far as I can recall, that's the only one I've seen up there though. Lots of water snakes, kings, rat snakes, and even a few copperheads. Anyone else ever seen a cotton mouth (that they're sure was a cotton mouth, and not a water snake) in the cold water rivers of Tennessee?


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## Jeff Raines

Kendallbearden said:


> Since he said that, i actually thought of another one. I saw one one time in the little pigeon river in tennessee. I had forgotten about it until he said mountain states, and it made me remember it. I'm absolutely 100 percent positive it was a cotton mouth. It was coiled on a big flat rock out in the river, pretty close to the bank. My mother saw the rock, and went to sit down on it, and just about had a heart attack. She jumped back and yelled snake, and i went to investigate.The snake opened it's mouth in the classic cotton mouth defensive pose. Once she ran away, it turned and swam off the rock and up onto the bank where i lost it. There is no mistaking a cotton mouth when they give you the open-mouth "i dare you" look. As far as I can recall, that's the only one I've seen up there though. Lots of water snakes, kings, rat snakes, and even a few copperheads. Anyone else ever seen a cotton mouth (that they're sure was a cotton mouth, and not a water snake) in the cold water rivers of Tennessee?


I have only seen 1 cottonmouth and it was in Hancock County.

And for me to believe there are cottonmouths in Cobb/Paulding....I'd have to see it


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## Sterlo58

Kendallbearden said:


> Since he said that, i actually thought of another one. I saw one one time in the little pigeon river in tennessee. I had forgotten about it until he said mountain states, and it made me remember it. I'm absolutely 100 percent positive it was a cotton mouth. It was coiled on a big flat rock out in the river, pretty close to the bank. My mother saw the rock, and went to sit down on it, and just about had a heart attack. She jumped back and yelled snake, and i went to investigate.The snake opened it's mouth in the classic cotton mouth defensive pose. Once she ran away, it turned and swam off the rock and up onto the bank where i lost it. There is no mistaking a cotton mouth when they give you the open-mouth "i dare you" look. As far as I can recall, that's the only one I've seen up there though. Lots of water snakes, kings, rat snakes, and even a few copperheads. Anyone else ever seen a cotton mouth (that they're sure was a cotton mouth, and not a water snake) in the cold water rivers of Tennessee?



The cottonmouth is one of the hardest of the pit vipers to identify. The reason is that there are many varieties of water snakes and several look and act just like the cottonmouth. I am not saying you are wrong...just saying it is highly unlikely to see one in that area.


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## Wild Turkey

Ive killed them in Virginia.


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## Sterlo58

Wild Turkey said:


> Ive killed them in Virginia.



Yep..they have them there. I was refering to eastern Tenn.  Not likely to find one there.


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## NCHillbilly

I've spent my whole life in western NC and eastern TN, and there ain't any cottonmouths here. 100% positive. Unless it was released by somebody, they're just not here. Western TN has cottonmouths along the Mississippi Delta, eastern NC and Virginia have them below the fall line, but there aren't any in the mountains, period, and very , very few in the lower Piedmont. We have plenty of aggressive-acting water snakes that people like to call water moccasins, but that don't actually make them water moccasins.


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## HEFTY

I hate snakes!!


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## dawg2

Flaustin1 said:


> Well i confirmed my suspicions without a doubt last wednesday.  We killed a cottonmouth in Lincoln county near clarkes hill lake.  Just shy of 4ft long.  I will try to post some pics later.



Pics????


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## Backlasher82

dawg2 said:


> Pics????



http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=638083


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## munster

Grew up just south of the airport.  Saw em all the time creekin.  Live in Cobb now and work outdoors.  The furthest north i've seen em is Lake Allatoona.


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## Jeff Raines

Abundance and Behavior:

Both subspecies are very common in the Deep South parts of the southeast. They are NOT found are north of Atlanta. Lake Lanier and Lake Allatoona do not have them but people still swear that there are cottonmouths there. The only snakes in that area are harmless water snakes. They are very secretive snakes and most of the time does not come in contact with people that often. This snake gets confused with most water snakes. When threatened water snakes will puff up and almost completely looks like a cottonmouth. One way to tell if the snake is a cottonmouth is when it swims they will swim with almost their whole body out of the water, but the water snake swim mostly underwater. There is big misconception that the snakes you see in brush over hanging a creek, river, pond, lake, and other bodies of water are cottonmouths. Almost always it is a water snake and there is story of them falling into the boat and biting people. One other thing is that water snakes are very quick to learn of danger and will slide in the water immediately, but the moccasin is very slow to become aware of danger. If confronted most moccasins if they are not sure they can escape will stand their ground which gives people a big misconception that they are aggressive.


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## Miguel Cervantes

Jeff Raines said:


> Abundance and Behavior:
> 
> Both subspecies are very common in the Deep South parts of the southeast. They are NOT found are north of Atlanta. Lake Lanier and Lake Allatoona do not have them but people still swear that there are cottonmouths there. The only snakes in that area are harmless water snakes. They are very secretive snakes and most of the time does not come in contact with people that often. This snake gets confused with most water snakes. When threatened water snakes will puff up and almost completely looks like a cottonmouth. One way to tell if the snake is a cottonmouth is when it swims they will swim with almost their whole body out of the water, but the water snake swim mostly underwater. There is big misconception that the snakes you see in brush over hanging a creek, river, pond, lake, and other bodies of water are cottonmouths. Almost always it is a water snake and there is story of them falling into the boat and biting people. One other thing is that water snakes are very quick to learn of danger and will slide in the water immediately, but the moccasin is very slow to become aware of danger. If confronted most moccasins if they are not sure they can escape will stand their ground which gives people a big misconception that they are aggressive.



If the white area on that map is indicative of where Water Mocassins supposedly are NOT, I can tell you for a fact that map is incorrect..


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## Jeff Raines

Miguel Cervantes said:


> If the white area on that map is indicative of where Water Mocassins supposedly are NOT, I can tell you for a fact that map is incorrect..



I have never seen a cottonmouth in any of those counties

The map is showing a population in south western paulding county.....I'd have to see one there to believe it.


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## Miguel Cervantes

Jeff Raines said:


> I have never seen a cottonmouth in any of those counties
> 
> The map is showing a population in south western paulding county.....I'd have to see one there to believe it.



I've seen two in southern Gwinnett County. You wanna draw a little grey dot on there or do you want me to??


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## Jeff Raines

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I've seen two in southern Gwinnett County. You wanna draw a little grey dot on there or do you want me to??




you can,I'm eatin lunch,it's peanutbutterjelly time


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## shakey gizzard

Global warming is expanding their range!


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## Miguel Cervantes

shakey gizzard said:


> Global warming is expanding their range!


this was back in the late 70's when I saw them. Al Gore hadn't invented Global Warming, or the Internet back then..


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## dawg2

Miguel Cervantes said:


> this was back in the late 70's when I saw them. Al Gore hadn't invented Global Warming, or the Internet back then..



Well you should PM the snakes and tell them to get back in the gray areas.


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## Miguel Cervantes

dawg2 said:


> Well you should PM the snakes and tell them to get back in the gray areas.


They seem to have a mind of their own and fail to see the importance of a territory map.


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## Kendallbearden

Miguel Cervantes said:


> If the white area on that map is indicative of where Water Mocassins supposedly are NOT, I can tell you for a fact that map is incorrect..



I can back this statement up as well. That map isn't correct. I've been in the woods all my life. I'm good with snakes. Whenever anyone has one they want identified, they call me. I know the difference between a cottonmouth and a water snake. I have never seen one on lake lanier, but i have seen them a couple of times on allatoona. My aunt has a house right across the road from kelogg creek. We used to walk across the road and down to the lake to fish all the time. I encountered one there in the woods, about 30 yards from the waters edge. The second one that i KNOW was a cottonmouth was seen on the bank of clark creek. So i know there's at least two of them up there....or one that knows how to get around


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## watermedic

Here is one that I got last year about 3 miles from the Lincoln county line.







He was a man!


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## Flaustin1

Yep that map aint right and thats the point i was trying to make.  We killed the one in my other thread on the north side of lincoln co.


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## Flaustin1

Jeff Raines said:


> Abundance and Behavior:
> 
> Both subspecies are very common in the Deep South parts of the southeast. They are NOT found are north of Atlanta. Lake Lanier and Lake Allatoona do not have them but people still swear that there are cottonmouths there. The only snakes in that area are harmless water snakes. They are very secretive snakes and most of the time does not come in contact with people that often. This snake gets confused with most water snakes. When threatened water snakes will puff up and almost completely looks like a cottonmouth. One way to tell if the snake is a cottonmouth is when it swims they will swim with almost their whole body out of the water, but the water snake swim mostly underwater. There is big misconception that the snakes you see in brush over hanging a creek, river, pond, lake, and other bodies of water are cottonmouths. Almost always it is a water snake and there is story of them falling into the boat and biting people. One other thing is that water snakes are very quick to learn of danger and will slide in the water immediately, but the moccasin is very slow to become aware of danger. If confronted most moccasins if they are not sure they can escape will stand their ground which gives people a big misconception that they are aggressive.



The fact that you posted that map and capatalized the word NOT is just crazy to me.  Dang snakes dont know their boundries.


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## EAGLE EYE 444

I have lived in Lincoln County and traveled through the woods all of my life there.  Technically, I live in Augusta now but I still own property in Lincoln County and visit my property several times each month.  This past weekend, I was up there on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday while doing some work and getting deer stands built and others checked on etc.  I have seen several Cottonmouths during my lifetime and they are a scary sight because some of them are somewhat aggressive.  Over the years some of them ended up lying across a fence or tree branch "just hoping that the old adage is true about making it rain."  I have also had a cottonmouth strike my leg before, and thankfully, the fangs caught on the side of the pants leg of my jeans and did not get through to the skin.  That happened while I was fishing at a farm pond and I basically stepped down right down onto the snake without seeing it initially.  I remember finding a big rock and killing it before it was able to get away.  Then I cleaned out my drawers.  Fishing trip was over right then !!!   

I think that snakes are about like coyotes, bears, mountain lions, and armadillos.  They can ultimately be in areas that most of us would never think they should be but they will show up there every now and then.


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## Ballplayer

I'll say first off, I'm not a snake expert but will say anyone who grew up prancing around in the S.W Ga. swamps will agree "they" will climb trees and drop into boats, and "they" are not just passive in nature, when its their breeding  time they get very aggressive. I know the difference in mocassions and water snakes and have my doubts about the "experts" knowing the difference.  They are known to eat fish off of stringers too ( had it to happen several times ) but the experts probably disagree with that statement too.


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## xlr8ngn

Kendallbearden said:


> I can back this statement up as well. That map isn't correct. I've been in the woods all my life. I'm good with snakes. Whenever anyone has one they want identified, they call me. I know the difference between a cottonmouth and a water snake. I have never seen one on lake lanier, but i have seen them a couple of times on allatoona. My aunt has a house right across the road from kelogg creek. We used to walk across the road and down to the lake to fish all the time. I encountered one there in the woods, about 30 yards from the waters edge. The second one that i KNOW was a cottonmouth was seen on the bank of clark creek. So i know there's at least two of them up there....or one that knows how to get around



It is a fact there USED to be a cottonmouth in the city of Woodstock.  The kids spotted it right beside the sidewalk in my neighbors front yard and they came to get me.  I have handled more than a few rat snakes, garters, one hog nose snake, and I expected the same.  I checked him out and quickly realized this was a cottonmouth.  I went back with a shovel and he got very aggressive, coming at me when I tried to lift him up.  I decided to end it there, and soon after opened his mouth for the kids to look at the fangs.  The map is off a little.


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## lcopeland22

shakey gizzard said:


> Global warming is expanding their range!


They're following the coyotes and cougars! Ive seen the watersnakes, but I have killed one in South Rockdale County and one out near lake Oconee.


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## shakey gizzard

lcopeland22 said:


> They're following the coyotes and cougars! Ive seen the watersnakes, but I have killed one in South Rockdale County and one out near lake Oconee.



More info!            http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=568230


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## RBM

What's all the ruckus? Moccasins have always lived in the South. They don't care about where somebody thinks they ought to be. We have Yanks come down here take a ride down the river and pull up under the trees to eat. Moccasin falls out of the tree in their boat. Then they catch fish and put the fish in an open well or cooler and wonder why the Moccasins and Gators follow them around and try to get in the boat. Seen that too many times to count but folks don't ever learn.


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## 7Mag Hunter

Jeff Raines said:


> I have only seen 1 cottonmouth and it was in Hancock County.
> 
> And for me to believe there are cottonmouths in Cobb/Paulding....I'd have to see it



2 yrs ago my BIL killed a CM in the creek in his front
yard in Mableton....Creek fed a small swampy area
2 houses down from him behind a vacant lot.....
It was a CM for sure....I saw it....just at 3' long......

I killed one on the Paulding Forest about 10 yrs ago,
again in a swampy area, 1/2 mile behind the old chicken
house off Hulsey Town Road....It was as big around as
my wrist....


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## germag

Backlasher82 said:


> Guess it depends on how picky you want to get about what you consider NE GA.



More like "how picky you want to get about what you consider to be a cottonmouth".


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## NCHillbilly

germag said:


> More like "how picky you want to get about what you consider to be a cottonmouth".


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## Backlasher82

germag said:


> More like "how picky you want to get about what you consider to be a cottonmouth".



Good to see you again stranger.


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## germag

Backlasher82 said:


> Good to see you again stranger.



Thanks! Good to see you too! How's it going, Bud?


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## Backlasher82

germag said:


> Thanks! Good to see you too! How's it going, Bud?



Good now that we got somebody back on here that knows a snake from a lizard.

We been having to count on NC Hillbilly and Nicodemus for or info on outdoors stuff lately. Nice enough fellers but you gotta wonder if they ever get out and tromp through the woods. City folks I reckon.

Welcome back!


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## NCHillbilly

Backlasher82 said:


> Good now that we got somebody back on here that knows a snake from a lizard.
> 
> We been having to count on NC Hillbilly and Nicodemus for or info on outdoors stuff lately. Nice enough fellers but you gotta wonder if they ever get out and tromp through the woods. City folks I reckon.
> 
> Welcome back!



 Yep, good to see you back, Gerald. Me and Nic can rest a little now-we are sitting here in downtown Atlanta at a fern bar right now wearing tweed smoking jackets and bowties, sipping on a Zima.


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## Nicodemus

NCHillbilly said:


> Yep, good to see you back, Gerald. Me and Nic can rest a little now-we are sitting here in downtown Atlanta at a fern bar right now wearing tweed smoking jackets and bowties, sipping on a Zima.





Pardon me, sir, but would you happen to have any Grey Poupon? 


And please pass the jelly!!!


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## Miguel Cervantes

Flaustin1 said:


> North central Ga. then, either way the point is that alot of people including some of the DNR claim that the cottonmouth dosnt live that far north.



That is not an accurate statement. The DNR uses the UGA studies map for venomous snake distribution across our state, and links to their brochure for reference. 

On this brochure Clark Hill is well within the range of the Cotton Mouth (Water Moccasin)

http://www.georgiawildlife.com/site...nongame/pdf/VenomousSnakesBrochure_LowRes.pdf


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## NCHillbilly

Nicodemus said:


> Pardon me, sir, but would you happen to have any Grey Poupon?
> 
> 
> And please pass the jelly!!!



This salsa was made in _New York City_!


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## Nicodemus

NCHillbilly said:


> This salsa was made in _New York City_!


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## Backlasher82

NCHillbilly said:


> Me and Nic can rest a little now-we are sitting here in downtown Atlanta at a fern bar right now wearing tweed smoking jackets and bowties, sipping on a Zima.



In the words of Lewis Grizzard: "I don't believe I would have told that brother".

Actually, I would probably pay a dollar and a half to see you 2 wearing bowties, tweed jackets and sipping Zimas in a fern bar. That's a right funny image right there.


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## shakey gizzard

When I harvest the first black panther,Nic will need to wearin a bowtie  and a tweed jacket fer the occasion!:welcome back Germag!cheers:


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## germag

shakey gizzard said:


> When I harvest the first black panther,Nic will need to wearin a bowtie  and a tweed jacket fer the occasion!:welcome back Germag!cheers:



Thanks, Shakey! Good to see you!


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## Oconostota

Exactly!  I've heard untrue stories all my life about cottonmouths being up this way, including "nests" of them floating in Allatoona.  There aren't any.  I think the folks that believe they have seen one up this way are probably the same kind of folks that intentionally kill every snake they see.  Sorry, but I just can't put any faith at all in anything that comes from a mind like that.  They see _what they want to see_.


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## waddler

Don't be sticking your hand down into any beaver dams or old beaver houses noodling. Just saying.


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## Oconostota

waddler said:


> Don't be sticking your hand down into any beaver dams or old beaver houses noodling. Just saying.



That's not too bright of a thing to do, no matter where, but especially where cottonmouths, alligator snappers or alligators live.


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## NCHillbilly

Or beavers.


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## waddler

I have never seen a Cottonmouth around Athens, but in Arkansas and Missouri, they are certainly further north than Athens is. I would not bet there are none in the beaver pond swamps off the rivers around here. What would be the reason for them not being here? The climate in Missouri is certainly more demanding on snakes than Piedmont Georgia.


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## tim scott

*cotton mouth in ne ga.*

sorry but that map is a joke.... have killed about 2 dozen over the years up on dicks creek. 

back 40 years ago when going to school at north ga. college, there was a big fuss, made headlines for about two weeks. was summer and some kids that climbed a fence around one of those many reservoirs in atlanta. first kid jumped in to swim and didn't come up. his friends ran for help. took them a day or two to find his body... he had some 300 bites all over him. report said he died instantly. city crews spent days dynamiting the reservour and using pitch forks to load dump trucks full of them.... the pics of all those dead snakes was scary.

and they do have cotton mouths in lake lanier. first one i ever saw was there. my grand father spotted it fishing and just had to show me it up close... using a stick to open its mouth to show the fangs. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - little boat wasn't big enough for me and a big poisonous snake.
tim


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## dawg2

tim scott said:


> sorry but that map is a joke.... have killed about 2 dozen over the years up on dicks creek.
> 
> back 40 years ago when going to school at north ga. college, there was a big fuss, made headlines for about two weeks. was summer and some kids that climbed a fence around one of those many reservoirs in atlanta. first kid jumped in to swim and didn't come up. his friends ran for help. took them a day or two to find his body... he had some 300 bites all over him. report said he died instantly. city crews spent days dynamiting the reservour and using pitch forks to load dump trucks full of them.... the pics of all those dead snakes was scary.
> 
> and they do have cotton mouths in lake lanier. first one i ever saw was there. my grand father spotted it fishing and just had to show me it up close... using a stick to open its mouth to show the fangs. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - little boat wasn't big enough for me and a big poisonous snake.
> tim



Do you have a link for that article?  I have heard the exact same story, but just in different locations.


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## olcowman

RBM said:


> What's all the ruckus? Moccasins have always lived in the South. They don't care about where somebody thinks they ought to be. We have Yanks come down here take a ride down the river and pull up under the trees to eat. Moccasin falls out of the tree in their boat. Then they catch fish and put the fish in an open well or cooler and wonder why the Moccasins and Gators follow them around and try to get in the boat. Seen that too many times to count but folks don't ever learn.



Ya'll just going to let this'n slide? Cottonmouths done evolved to the point that they're a following yankees around so's they can climb a tree next to them and fall off in their cooler while them yankees is a eating their dinner! That's serious developement right there... I reckon rednecks are left alone? Take a yankee fishing...



dawg2 said:


> Do you have a link for that article?  I have heard the exact same story, but just in different locations.



The first time I heard this "100% True" story it was reported to have occured in Pickens County somewheres on Scare Corn creek... since then I have also heard it was in the Tennessee River just outside Chattanooga, on Allatoona and Lanier, on Carters just after it was filled up, on the Flint River at Flat Shoals, in Gordon County on Pine Log Creek, over on the Coosa somewhere's near Rome (twice!), and of course... that Irish boy what got eat up by cottonmouths when Gus and Capt. Call was a driving them cows 'cross that river when they left Lonesome Dove down in Texas.

Obviously it is a common occurance... now that I think about it... I'm going to quit swimming in anything but a chlorinated swimming pool where's I can see the bottom 'real good'!


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## Nicodemus

dawg2 said:


> Do you have a link for that article?  I have heard the exact same story, but just in different locations.





I heard it was at Smoak Bridge on Lake Blackshear, many years ago.


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## dawg2

Nicodemus said:


> I heard it was at Smoak Bridge on Lake Blackshear, many years ago.



...and it was a big ol' underwater nest of 'em


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## Nicodemus

dawg2 said:


> ...and it was a big ol' underwater nest of 'em



Yea, thousands! This unfortunate soul was evidently waterskiin` and fell into this wad of cottonmouths.


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## dawg2

Nicodemus said:


> Yea, thousands! This unfortunate soul was evidently waterskiin` and fell into this wad of cottonmouths.



I heard they pulled him right off his skiis!


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## NG ALUM

tim scott said:


> sorry but that map is a joke.... have killed about 2 dozen over the years up on dicks creek.
> 
> back 40 years ago when going to school at north ga. college, there was a big fuss, made headlines for about two weeks. was summer and some kids that climbed a fence around one of those many reservoirs in atlanta. first kid jumped in to swim and didn't come up. his friends ran for help. took them a day or two to find his body... he had some 300 bites all over him. report said he died instantly. city crews spent days dynamiting the reservour and using pitch forks to load dump trucks full of them.... the pics of all those dead snakes was scary.
> 
> and they do have cotton mouths in lake lanier. first one i ever saw was there. my grand father spotted it fishing and just had to show me it up close... using a stick to open its mouth to show the fangs. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - little boat wasn't big enough for me and a big poisonous snake.
> tim



When I was in school at North GA a few years back I saw one that had been run over by a car on the road right there beside dicks creek. I was walking up the dirt road fishing and saw it and stopped and examined it cause I couldn't believe it. It was 100% cottonmouth. I have shot more than I care to say on my farm in telfair county growing up. I know what they are and how to tell. I wasn't gonna say anything though cause I didn't want to hear folks telling me I was crazy. But I 2nd your sightings on Dick's creek. 

Now the Lake Lanier hive of cottonmouths...that was before my time and I never saw one there. but if they are on dicks creek there has got to be atleast one there somewhere. I don't buy the mad swarm eating people story though...


----------



## hobbs27

Ive hunted all over these north east ga hills, and never saw a cotton mouth here,I live on lake lanier and never heard of anyone seeing one here before, ofcourse Ive never seen a black panther either.


----------



## Throwback

hobbs27 said:


> Ive hunted all over these north east ga hills, and never saw a cotton mouth here,I live on lake lanier and never heard of anyone seeing one here before, ofcourse Ive never seen a black panther either.



well that right there shows you don't spend more than 30 minutes in the woods per calendar year. 

T


----------



## Ihunt

So the government is not telling us the truth and some of you are surprised by this?


----------



## NCHillbilly

olcowman said:


> Ya'll just going to let this'n slide? Cottonmouths done evolved to the point that they're a following yankees around so's they can climb a tree next to them and fall off in their cooler while them yankees is a eating their dinner! That's serious developement right there... I reckon rednecks are left alone? Take a yankee fishing...
> 
> 
> 
> The first time I heard this "100% True" story it was reported to have occured in Pickens County somewheres on Scare Corn creek... since then I have also heard it was in the Tennessee River just outside Chattanooga, on Allatoona and Lanier, on Carters just after it was filled up, on the Flint River at Flat Shoals, in Gordon County on Pine Log Creek, over on the Coosa somewhere's near Rome (twice!), and of course... that Irish boy what got eat up by cottonmouths when Gus and Capt. Call was a driving them cows 'cross that river when they left Lonesome Dove down in Texas.
> 
> Obviously it is a common occurance... now that I think about it... I'm going to quit swimming in anything but a chlorinated swimming pool where's I can see the bottom 'real good'!



I've heard that same story about most of our lakes here in NC too. But I don't see how they could live up here, they couldn't survive in any of the lakes because of them catfish the size of volkswagons big enough to swaller people that the divers seen down at the dam. Them big cats would swaller a whole nest of cottonmouths without blinking. I've heard that same catfish story about every lake in NC, and several in TN, GA, and SC. I always feel sorry for that poor old feller that got the bends coming up too fast when the catfish skeered him.



Throwback said:


> well that right there shows you don't spend more than 30 minutes in the woods per calendar year.
> 
> T



Definitely. I know people who have never even seen a fox, bear, bobcat, mink, or weasel; but they've seen several black panthers each over the years.


----------



## KyDawg

Nicodemus said:


> I heard it was at Smoak Bridge on Lake Blackshear, many years ago.



No you are all wrong. This mass attack ocurred on twin Lakes just south of Valdosta, and it was over 50 years ago.
All those other stories are just copycat legends. The poor fella was simply swimming and never had a chance.


----------



## tim scott

dawg2,
"link" hey that was long before anything was computerized. you might drop by an atlanta area newspaper or library and check their micro film records would be 1971 or 1972.  i didn't read it off any computer rather read it when it happened and also saw a couple news reports on the tv.

as to lake lanier... that was a while back, the one with my grandfather was about 55 years ago. about 25 years ago we got a small one in my aunts back yard... snakes always liked to sun themselves on the brick steps that go from her car port down to the back yard.... around the same time the neighbor across the street got a big one in his car port.... both lived on mountain view circle in gainesville both were just a couple minutes walk thru the woods from the lake. i'm sure they aren't real common around the lake but all the older folks now long dead weren't ever surprised by it.

with all the talk on this forum about snakes.... anybody ever up around turners corner. been years since i stopped in the store, never liked the place it was always so dark and dirty... like crawling into a cave. they had a huge rattle snake skin mounted on the wall. i forget how long it was.... have long wondered if it was still there and what it measures.
tim


----------



## LEON MANLEY

Oconostota said:


> Exactly!  I've heard untrue stories all my life about cottonmouths being up this way, including "nests" of them floating in Allatoona.  There aren't any.  I think the folks that believe they have seen one up this way are probably the same kind of folks that intentionally kill every snake they see.  Sorry, but I just can't put any faith at all in anything that comes from a mind like that.  They see _what they want to see_.



They also see a lot of "cull bucks". LOL


----------



## dawg2

tim scott said:


> dawg2,
> "link" hey that was long before anything was computerized. you might drop by an atlanta area newspaper or library and check their micro film records would be 1971 or 1972.  i didn't read it off any computer rather read it when it happened and also saw a couple news reports on the tv.
> 
> as to lake lanier... that was a while back, the one with my grandfather was about 55 years ago. about 25 years ago we got a small one in my aunts back yard... snakes always liked to sun themselves on the brick steps that go from her car port down to the back yard.... around the same time the neighbor across the street got a big one in his car port.... both lived on mountain view circle in gainesville both were just a couple minutes walk thru the woods from the lake. i'm sure they aren't real common around the lake but all the older folks now long dead weren't ever surprised by it.
> 
> with all the talk on this forum about snakes.... anybody ever up around turners corner. been years since i stopped in the store, never liked the place it was always so dark and dirty... like crawling into a cave. they had a huge rattle snake skin mounted on the wall. i forget how long it was.... have long wondered if it was still there and what it measures.
> tim



There are digital records of WWII, WWI, The American Indian Wars, The war for Independence, etc.  Surely if it happened in the 70's it would be on a computer somewhere.

...and guess what, I found it  http://www.snopes.com/critters/snakes/waterski.asp


----------



## germag

dawg2 said:


> There are digital records of WWII, WWI, The American Indian Wars, The war for Independence, etc.  Surely if it happened in the 70's it would be on a computer somewhere.
> 
> ...and guess what, I found it  http://www.snopes.com/critters/snakes/waterski.asp



You are wasting your time and breath messing with this thread, brother.


----------



## dawg2

germag said:


> You are wasting your time and breath messing with this thread, brother.



Well I was hoping I would get lucky and someone would post a picture of a giant breeding ball of mockersins


----------



## germag

dawg2 said:


> Well I was hoping I would get lucky and someone would post a picture of a giant breeding ball of mockersins



I hear 'ya, but.......that ain't happening. For that to happen, it would have to be a true story. All you're going to get is "I know it's true because it happened to my second cousin's uncle's on the other side, 3 times removed, his best friend's brother's friend.

And then.."I know what I saw and I know what a mocksaskin looks like. These experts don't know anything. I must have killed a hunnert mocksaskins in the north Georgia mountains over the years. Don't tell me what I saw!"

I've learned not to bother them with facts....their mind is already made up...all you'll do is tick them off and create hard feelings, and after the smoke clears, nothing has changed.


----------



## GA DAWG

I've also been all over hunting these little hills around lake Lanier and parts west. D
Coon hunted lots of acreage to. That pretty much all takes place near water. I've yet to see a nest of em or a single one.I've saw plenty of rattlers copperheads and water snakes though. Yall don't worry. Soon as I run across one up here. I'll show you.


----------



## Killdee

I grew up hunting and fishing Cobb Cherokee Paulding and saw my daddy kill Deadly pizzionous cotton mouth moskins and copper bellies along with most others I grew up with. Then In the 70s while hunting a Taylor county swamp I saw my first REAL cottonmouth, no comparison to the water snakes I grew up fearing.

For the experts, just why is it we have a void of cottonmouth's in the northern center of the state, I dont doubt some of the folks on here have seen a isolated real CM here and there but is there a reason for the absence in these areas? Seems odd they are north of us in other states and void in some areas.


----------



## Nicodemus

Killdee said:


> I grew up hunting and fishing Cobb Cherokee Paulding and saw my daddy kill Deadly pizzionous cotton mouth moskins and copper bellies along with most others I grew up with. Then In the 70s while hunting a Taylor county swamp I saw my first REAL cottonmouth, no comparison to the water snakes I grew up fearing.
> 
> For the experts, just why is it we have a void of cottonmouth's in the northern center of the state, I dont doubt some of the folks on here have seen a isolated real CM here and there but is there a reason for the absence in these areas? Seems odd they are north of us in other states and void in some areas.




I really don`t know Tony. Maybe Gerald can shed some light on it. Just about all of the cottonmouths I see are in branches, small creeks, and mudholes, and occasionally on high ground and fields above swamps. To be honest, I can`t tell you the last time I saw one in the Flint or on Seminole. And down in this part of the country I prowl in, I can only remember 5 copperheads, ever. Old folks down here called em highland moccasins. As for identifyin` em, I`m purty sure I know copperheads and cottonmouths when I see em.


----------



## germag

Nicodemus said:


> I really don`t know Tony. Maybe Gerald can shed some light on it. Just about all of the cottonmouths I see are in branches, small creeks, and mudholes, and occasionally on high ground and fields above swamps. To be honest, I can`t tell you the last time I saw one in the Flint or on Seminole. And down in this part of the country I prowl in, I can only remember 5 copperheads, ever. Old folks down here called em highland moccasins. As for identifyin` em, I`m purty sure I know copperheads and cottonmouths when I see em.



I'm betting you do! I imagine you are much better at ID'ing them than 98% of the population.

As far as the void in cottonmouth population, it's really just like the limits of any animal's range. That's where the suitable habitat ends. On the west side of the state, they use the Choctawhatchee/Tallapoosa and are restricted to that drainage area. On the east side of the state, that zone brings them in close proximity to the coast, and they are a coastal plains snake. That section in the north central, just doesn't provide a migration corridor or suitable habitat.


----------



## Chattooga River Hunter

I grew up with cottonmouths in Arkansas, they are from the bottom to the top of that state.  I now live in extreme NE GA and am very happy to not have them here.  I think their absence is most likely due to the colder water in the mountains, but I cant explain why they wouldnt be in the Piedmont portion of our state, like the areas you mention?  Unfortunately though, up here in the mtns our cottonmouths are replaced by the rattlesnakes, at a 1:1 ratio.


----------



## Killdee

Nicodemus said:


> I really don`t know Tony. Maybe Gerald can shed some light on it. Just about all of the cottonmouths I see are in branches, small creeks, and mudholes, and occasionally on high ground and fields above swamps. To be honest, I can`t tell you the last time I saw one in the Flint or on Seminole. And down in this part of the country I prowl in, I can only remember 5 copperheads, ever. Old folks down here called em highland moccasins. As for identifyin` em, I`m purty sure I know copperheads and cottonmouths when I see em.



No copperheads much in your parts huh, funny how they are scarce 1 place and all over others. Now up here in the Metro part of the state we are blessed with abundance of copperheads and thats the only venomous snake I have ever seen around here. Only exceptions are 2 pygmy rattlers and my work partner saw a right nice Timber rattler here in Marietta run over at 1-75 and the north Marietta loop a year or 2 ago.There have been a slew of copperhead bites this year in the metro area according to the local news.


----------



## KyDawg

In my part of Kentucky the only venomous snake we have is the Copperhead. You can go 20 miles north of here and there are a few timber rattlers. But what I find interesting is that almost any one up here will tell you that they have seen dozens of Cottonmouths, and how they chased them. Then I had a guy fishing one day point one out to me on the river. You gussed it. Banded water snake. I have seen my share of CM's on the Ocklochnee river and surrounding creeks and they dont look alike at all to me.

Germag I appreciate all your insight and knowledge of our legless friends.


----------



## germag

KyDawg said:


> In my part of Kentucky the only venomous snake we have is the Copperhead. You can go 20 miles north of here and there are a few timber rattlers. But what I find interesting is that almost any one up here will tell you that they have seen dozens of Cottonmouths, and how they chased them. Then I had a guy fishing one day point one out to me on the river. You gussed it. Banded water snake. I have seen my share of CM's on the Ocklochnee river and surrounding creeks and they dont look alike at all to me.
> 
> Germag I appreciate all your insight and knowledge of our legless friends.



Thanks! It's nice to be recognized and appreciated.


----------



## Jeff Raines

I have only seen 1 water moccasin in my life and that was in Hancock County,branch of shoulderbone creek close to 16.It was an olive drab ugly color.


----------



## JKnieper

Hiking the Chatooga river trail in the late 80's I ran across one riverside when the river was running vey high after several days of rain.  I messed with him a bit with a branch and got him to strike.  Their was no mistaking the inside of that mouth.  That's the only one I have ever seen north of Macon.


----------



## olcowman

JKnieper said:


> Hiking the Chatooga river trail in the late 80's I ran across one riverside when the river was running vey high after several days of rain.  I messed with him a bit with a branch and got him to strike.  Their was no mistaking the inside of that mouth.  That's the only one I have ever seen north of Macon.



They's also feller up there, back about that time, what got beat to death by one of them there coach whip snakes... folks said it 'bout skinned him down to the bone! Whooped him so hard it knocked the fillings out of his teeth... and one of his grandkids born years later still had a headache! It was bad...

And long about a week after that tragedy they was a feller a fishing (a yankee if'n I recollect correctly) that was a fishing way down in one of them big ol' trout holes off near the bottom of that big gulley, and not paying a bit of attention (as yankees is subject to do). When one of them big hoopsnakes reached around and bit it's own tail (forming a hoop... thus the name) and rolled down the mountain and hit that poor ol' yankee with that poisonous horn them kinda snakes all have long about middle ways of their back! Some of em' told that he never knew what hit him... one minute a putting him a piece a corn on his hook, the next a laying there graveyard dead with a funny look on his face? And that ol' hoopsnake just kept on a rolling... last anyone see'd it was somewheres over just north of Due West, or thereabouts.

You was one lucky man to just escape them parts with just one encounter with a deadly viper... that part of the state was full of them thangs back then. They'd got tricky up there too for some reason... that ol' cottonmouth you stumbled up on just a laying there letting you jab around with a stick n' all. That ain't no regular CM behaviour right there... no sir! He was a trying to lure you in to striking distance for sure (them snakes was known to be lazy back then and not big on a crawling more'n a few feet to bite somebody). Now unless that was a coachwhip just a pretending to be a cottonmouth... which happened to my cousin back in...


----------



## deersled

olcowman said:


> They's also feller up there, back about that time, what got beat to death by one of them there coach whip snakes... folks said it 'bout skinned him down to the bone! Whooped him so hard it knocked the fillings out of his teeth... and one of his grandkids born years later still had a headache! It was bad...
> 
> And long about a week after that tragedy they was a feller a fishing (a yankee if'n I recollect correctly) that was a fishing way down in one of them big ol' trout holes off near the bottom of that big gulley, and not paying a bit of attention (as yankees is subject to do). When one of them big hoopsnakes reached around and bit it's own tail (forming a hoop... thus the name) and rolled down the mountain and hit that poor ol' yankee with that poisonous horn them kinda snakes all have long about middle ways of their back! Some of em' told that he never knew what hit him... one minute a putting him a piece a corn on his hook, the next a laying there graveyard dead with a funny look on his face? And that ol' hoopsnake just kept on a rolling... last anyone see'd it was somewheres over just north of Due West, or thereabouts.
> 
> You was one lucky man to just escape them parts with just one encounter with a deadly viper... that part of the state was full of them thangs back then. They'd got tricky up there too for some reason... that ol' cottonmouth you stumbled up on just a laying there letting you jab around with a stick n' all. That ain't no regular CM behaviour right there... no sir! He was a trying to lure you in to striking distance for sure (them snakes was known to be lazy back then and not big on a crawling more'n a few feet to bite somebody). Now unless that was a coachwhip just a pretending to be a cottonmouth... which happened to my cousin back in...



STOP! STOP! you're killing me


----------



## dawg2

tim scott said:


> sorry but that map is a joke.... have killed about 2 dozen over the years up on dicks creek.
> 
> back 40 years ago when going to school at north ga. college, there was a big fuss, made headlines for about two weeks. was summer and some kids that climbed a fence around one of those many reservoirs in atlanta. first kid jumped in to swim and didn't come up. his friends ran for help. took them a day or two to find his body... he had some 300 bites all over him. report said he died instantly. city crews spent days dynamiting the reservour and using pitch forks to load dump trucks full of them.... the pics of all those dead snakes was scary.
> 
> and they do have cotton mouths in lake lanier. first one i ever saw was there. my grand father spotted it fishing and just had to show me it up close... using a stick to open its mouth to show the fangs. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - little boat wasn't big enough for me and a big poisonous snake.
> tim



I went to school at NGA too.  Never did see a mockersin up there.  Saw dumptruck loads of water snakes, but never a mockersin.  I spent every minute I wasn't in class or studying; fishing up and down every creek, river and stream I could find.  Plus you know they weren't there because I never was bitten.  Everybody knows they will chase you down and attack you for no reason.  They'll swarm just like killer bees


----------



## dawg2

olcowman said:


> They's also feller up there, back about that time, what got beat to death by one of them there coach whip snakes... folks said it 'bout skinned him down to the bone! Whooped him so hard it knocked the fillings out of his teeth... and one of his grandkids born years later still had a headache! It was bad...
> 
> And long about a week after that tragedy they was a feller a fishing (a yankee if'n I recollect correctly) that was a fishing way down in one of them big ol' trout holes off near the bottom of that big gulley, and not paying a bit of attention (as yankees is subject to do). When one of them big hoopsnakes reached around and bit it's own tail (forming a hoop... thus the name) and rolled down the mountain and hit that poor ol' yankee with that poisonous horn them kinda snakes all have long about middle ways of their back! Some of em' told that he never knew what hit him... one minute a putting him a piece a corn on his hook, the next a laying there graveyard dead with a funny look on his face? And that ol' hoopsnake just kept on a rolling... last anyone see'd it was somewheres over just north of Due West, or thereabouts.
> 
> You was one lucky man to just escape them parts with just one encounter with a deadly viper... that part of the state was full of them thangs back then. They'd got tricky up there too for some reason... that ol' cottonmouth you stumbled up on just a laying there letting you jab around with a stick n' all. That ain't no regular CM behaviour right there... no sir! He was a trying to lure you in to striking distance for sure (them snakes was known to be lazy back then and not big on a crawling more'n a few feet to bite somebody). Now unless that was a coachwhip just a pretending to be a cottonmouth... which happened to my cousin back in...



Yessir, you gotta watch that stinger on those rascals.  It's deadly


----------



## NCHillbilly

olcowman said:


> They's also feller up there, back about that time, what got beat to death by one of them there coach whip snakes... folks said it 'bout skinned him down to the bone! Whooped him so hard it knocked the fillings out of his teeth... and one of his grandkids born years later still had a headache! It was bad...
> 
> And long about a week after that tragedy they was a feller a fishing (a yankee if'n I recollect correctly) that was a fishing way down in one of them big ol' trout holes off near the bottom of that big gulley, and not paying a bit of attention (as yankees is subject to do). When one of them big hoopsnakes reached around and bit it's own tail (forming a hoop... thus the name) and rolled down the mountain and hit that poor ol' yankee with that poisonous horn them kinda snakes all have long about middle ways of their back! Some of em' told that he never knew what hit him... one minute a putting him a piece a corn on his hook, the next a laying there graveyard dead with a funny look on his face? And that ol' hoopsnake just kept on a rolling... last anyone see'd it was somewheres over just north of Due West, or thereabouts.
> 
> You was one lucky man to just escape them parts with just one encounter with a deadly viper... that part of the state was full of them thangs back then. They'd got tricky up there too for some reason... that ol' cottonmouth you stumbled up on just a laying there letting you jab around with a stick n' all. That ain't no regular CM behaviour right there... no sir! He was a trying to lure you in to striking distance for sure (them snakes was known to be lazy back then and not big on a crawling more'n a few feet to bite somebody). Now unless that was a coachwhip just a pretending to be a cottonmouth... which happened to my cousin back in...



I was real lucky the only time one of them hoop snakes  ever got after me. I saw it come rollin' down the hill at me with its tail in its mouth, so just before it got me, I remembered to jump behind a big locust tree and that thing stuck its pizen tail stinger right in that tree and got it stuck. I chopped its head off, but man, within five minutes the limbs on that locust was wiltin' and within an hour that tree was dead as a doorknob, every leaf on it fell off and the wood turned pizen green. Nothing wouldn't even grow there for years after that.


----------



## tim scott

dawg2, 
sorry to hear that you got stuck in that god forsaken school. never hated a place or a bunch of people so bad in my life. but from what you said.... i spent alot more time in the woods than you.... class i cut most of them and still got B's and study... spent half the nights running around the woods or chasing tail, not that that last thing was any effort up there. i think i crawled thru evey mine in the area. found a couple of old stamp mills..... one a five stamp was completely intact. loved exploring all the old abandoned antebellum plantations around gainesville yes lots of them in the area back then.... easy to date from the gravestones.... the slaves just had small marble markers with no names. i still have in my dining room a hunt board ( tall side board found only in southern states) dating from cir. 1810 that i back packed out about a mile.... and if any of you ever find a moon-shine still in a mine on the back side of crown mountain..... it's mine. also still have thousands of photos taken around the old places..... sorry nothing digital all black and white film.... used to swap pics with wenslo crannel ?? spelling?? when he taught in the art dept. lol he was worse than me when it came to chasing tail. got to look him up one day... i hear the dirty old man is still alive.
here's to fun times in bad places.
 killdee, 
lots of rattle snakes along the tracks down where you live in big shanty.... liked photographing the railroads.
tim


----------



## olcowman

NCHillbilly said:


> I was real lucky the only time one of them hoop snakes  ever got after me. I saw it come rollin' down the hill at me with its tail in its mouth, so just before it got me, I remembered to jump behind a big locust tree and that thing stuck its pizen tail stinger right in that tree and got it stuck. I chopped its head off, but man, within five minutes the limbs on that locust was wiltin' and within an hour that tree was dead as a doorknob, every leaf on it fell off and the wood turned pizen green. Nothing wouldn't even grow there for years after that.



I know'd you'd know exactly what I was talking about Hillbilly... LOL I heard that same tale about the tree from Granny!


----------



## NCHillbilly

olcowman said:


> I know'd you'd know exactly what I was talking about Hillbilly... LOL I heard that same tale about the tree from Granny!



I heard it from my Granny, too.


----------



## redneck_billcollector

Nicodemus said:


> I really don`t know Tony. Maybe Gerald can shed some light on it. Just about all of the cottonmouths I see are in branches, small creeks, and mudholes, and occasionally on high ground and fields above swamps. To be honest, I can`t tell you the last time I saw one in the Flint or on Seminole. And down in this part of the country I prowl in, I can only remember 5 copperheads, ever. Old folks down here called em highland moccasins. As for identifyin` em, I`m purty sure I know copperheads and cottonmouths when I see em.



I have seen a few in some of the river swamps along the flint in Mitchell and Baker county, but if you really want to find some down this way the Kiokee and Coolawahee (or however you spell it) has a goodly number that are rather visible during droughts (like now).  The most I have ever seen anywhere barn none was on the old Dixie Plantation on the FLA/GA line on a timber cruise in 1980, I mean you would see literally dozens if not more a day, Ben was on that cruise, we have talked about all the cotton mouths we saw all those years ago.  I actually caught one and kept it as a pet for a little while (it was a smaller one and was really intense with its pattern, I guess it just shedded).

Ft. Stewart GA has a few at times too, I have been around cottonmouths nigh on my whole life (51 years), I have been bitten by one (along with copper heads on more than one occassion) and I have never seen a single ball or swarm or whatever you want to call them.  Nor have I had one ever try to "attack" me, though they have come after fish on a stringer hanging on the side of a boat.  Every time I have been snake bit was pretty much my fault, trying to handle and "play" with them.  I know my snakes and have never killed one knowingly in my life, even the ones that have decided to bite me.....

One obersevation is if I am seeing alot of banded watersnakes or red bellied water snakes I never see cotton mouths, don't know if they eat them or not, but it is something I have noticed.  Also if there are a mess of gators, not much in the way of cotton mouths, though I see red bellied and banded water snakes, a fine example is my yard, I live on the "backwaters" of the flint with lots of gators and watersnakes, never seen a cotton mouth but copper heads and canebrakes have to be removed from my yard every single year....but never a cotton mouth.

I also have had many a slain banded water snake shown to me with claims of it being a cotton mouth.  As for copper heads nic, last summer I caught 7 or 8 in my yard, only a couple this year and they always seem to be young of the year, no big ones, I guess the underside of my house is an attractive birthing area of the mommas.  My baby brother got bit by a copper head about 20 yards from where I got that pic of the kingsnake catching a copperhead that you helped me post, that was on a ridge above the flint river right above Baconton.


----------



## redneck_billcollector

Killdee said:


> No copperheads much in your parts huh, funny how they are scarce 1 place and all over others. Now up here in the Metro part of the state we are blessed with abundance of copperheads and thats the only venomous snake I have ever seen around here. Only exceptions are 2 pygmy rattlers and my work partner saw a right nice Timber rattler here in Marietta run over at 1-75 and the north Marietta loop a year or 2 ago.There have been a slew of copperhead bites this year in the metro area according to the local news.



Yall have pygmy rattlers up there?  I love them, never found them outside of the lower coastal plain though, always found them down in Wakulla Co. FLA, they like palmetto flats and sandy soil, never found them unless it was like that.....That was the first venomous snake I ever caught.  I have seen some folks think baby canebrakes was pygmys, but if you ever see one there is no mistaking, the prettiest rattlesnake there is if you ask me, great coloring.  A little kid got bit by one a couple of days ago at a nursery / daycare center in FLA.

I now see there are pygmy rattlesnakes up that way, the carolina pygmy, I am only familiar with the dusky pygmy which is a coastal plains snake, only lived above the fall line three years out of my 51 years and never saw a pygmy up that way, but I stand corrected (though no one has called me out on it yet).


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## Nicodemus

Jay, a cottonmouth hotspot is that swamp behind the Blakely Primary electrical substation, on HWY 200, right before you get into Blakely. Strangely, very few water snakes there. I remember sayin` I had never seen a copperhead around the house here, but about a month ago, somebody flattened one on the road out in front of the house. It was about 3 feet long. Been a slow year for me, I haven`t seen hardly any snakes except for young spreadin` adders (hognose snakes). I`ve seen several in the yard in the last week or two. Light gray with some good colors, not like the solid black ones I normally have here. I actually thought I had me a pygmy rattler when I saw the first one. Looked almost like one at a glance.


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## redneck_billcollector

Nic, have you ever figured out why so many people have a complete and total fear of all snakes?  As a very small child the first pet I ever had was a rough grass snake and have loved snakes ever since.  I get really bent out of shape when people kill snakes for the sake of killing them, without the slightest idea of what kind it is, but they are always a cottonmouth or , my favorite, a rattlesnake that somehow has lost its rattles....more ratsnakes are killed as rattleless rattlers than there are rattlesnakes killed.  I had a yankee neighbor about 15 or so years ago putting in a tomato garden and he came across a scarlet kingsnake, which he immediately killed thinking it was a coral snake.  He was heartbroken after I convinced him what it was and what they got on the black market (huge bucks, upwards to four figures)....I have only caught one coral snake in my life and I loved it, was beautiful, however I have seen a few in the wild, (under debris in the woods while looking for dusky pygmies). I have never found a wild scarlet king snake, though I have seen and held captive ones.

What really suprises me is the outdoorsmen who have no clue about snakes, no idea what one is from the other, and kill them.  I would think an outdoorsman would learn about them and let them be and not kill them.  I used to come across canebrakes all the time during archery season and would walk around them, same with diamondbacks, a snake that will probably be exterpated in SOWEGA before too long.  Maybe with the come back of gopher tortoises they, along with the indigo snake will make a strong comeback..... That is another snake I used to see but see no more, which is sad, they are the largest native snake in north america and their main prey is......snakes, rattlers to be exact.


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## dawg2

redneck_billcollector said:


> Nic, have you ever figured out why so many people have a complete and total fear of all snakes?  As a very small child the first pet I ever had was a rough grass snake and have loved snakes ever since.  I get really bent out of shape when people kill snakes for the sake of killing them, without the slightest idea of what kind it is, but they are always a cottonmouth or , my favorite, a rattlesnake that somehow has lost its rattles....more ratsnakes are killed as rattleless rattlers than there are rattlesnakes killed.  I had a yankee neighbor about 15 or so years ago putting in a tomato garden and he came across a scarlet kingsnake, which he immediately killed thinking it was a coral snake.  He was heartbroken after I convinced him what it was and what they got on the black market (huge bucks, upwards to four figures)....I have only caught one coral snake in my life and I loved it, was beautiful, however I have seen a few in the wild, (under debris in the woods while looking for dusky pygmies). I have never found a wild scarlet king snake, though I have seen and held captive ones.
> 
> What really suprises me is the outdoorsmen who have no clue about snakes, no idea what one is from the other, and kill them.  I would think an outdoorsman would learn about them and let them be and not kill them.  I used to come across canebrakes all the time during archery season and would walk around them, same with diamondbacks, a snake that will probably be exterpated in SOWEGA before too long.  Maybe with the come back of gopher tortoises they, along with the indigo snake will make a strong comeback..... That is another snake I used to see but see no more, which is sad, they are the largest native snake in north america and their main prey is......snakes, rattlers to be exact.



It is aggravating, the irrational fear of basically a legless lizard, that people have.  I have no idea and it baffles me why some would kill any they cross, venomous or not.


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## Killdee

It's the way most folks were raised, my Daddy would always catch and bring king and rat snakes home to catch rats so I grew up not skeered of non venomous snakes. Some folks was raised the other way......


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## dawg2

Killdee said:


> It's the way most folks were raised, my Daddy would always catch and bring king and rat snakes home to catch rats so I grew up not skeered of non venomous snakes. Some folks was raised the other way......


Well people that grow up in the city don't run into the woods with a chainsaw to kill every tree they see


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## Nicodemus

I really don`t know the answer to that. By all rights, I should be terrified of them. In the early 1900s when my Grandaddy was 6 years old, he was struck on the foot by a big diamondback. My Great Grandmother did the only known thing back then, cut an X and suck the venom out. They then carried him back to the house and by the time they got there, they had to cut his overalls off, because his leg was swelled so bad. One of my Uncles then poured a good shot of stumplikker over the bite. That night when the doctor finally got there, he washed it and said that was all he could do. 

It took him a long time to get over that, and he had an awful scar on his foot that he carried to the grave with him. For the rest of his life he had a deathly fear of any snake, as did my Grandmother. The last thing I would hear as I went out the door was "Look out for snakes". I don`t know why, but I just never saw anything about them to scare anybody.


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## waddler

I can only speak for my personal experience, and it was the way I was raised, cause later in life I learned to control the fear enough to function around snakes. My brother never made it out, and he is deathly afraid of the picture of a snake.

We were raised in the wild, altho it was only 3 miles to town, and were given free run of probably 500 acres. In SGa, the area was replete with Cottonmouths and Rattlers, but never once saw a Copperhead or Coral. 

First: My mother and Grandmother instilled in us the fear of the Almighty and that included the Snake as the villain. Snakes caused all our problems according to their version of the scriptures, and were the embodiment of EVIL. We got a real heavy dose of this from as far back as I can remember.

Second: If you tried to put a snake on any of my family, you were dead meat on the spot. No fooling around, I am convinced they would kill you and feel absolutely justified.

Third: Us being so afraid of snakes gave them a false sense of security that we would be less likely to get bitten, and also that they would not feel so guilty if it happened, because they had done all humanly possible to prevent it.

Fourth: Rattlers killed our dogs, and that made us hate them all the more.

Fifth: A large rattler killed by somone in our area was shown as a trophy, and hung on a fence by the road so everybody could see. Some say folks did this to make it rain, but when I got one it was so everybody would talk about the big snake I killed.

Six: It was accepted and stated openly among our neighbors and acquaintances, that anybody that handled Rattlers was a fool. This was universal among ALL the people I knew until I left home.

So it was cultural reasons, spiritual reasons and pragmatism that taught me to loath and fear snakes. At college, I got over it cause I had a wife and was totally broke. Helped Ernie Rober feed Dr Jenkins snakes at the Whitehall Farm while Dr Jenkins worked on a snake repellant. The meanest snake among the crowd was a red colored rat snake. He hated Ernie and would come flying across the cage to bite him.


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## redneck_billcollector

waddler said:


> I can only speak for my personal experience, and it was the way I was raised, cause later in life I learned to control the fear enough to function around snakes. My brother never made it out, and he is deathly afraid of the picture of a snake.
> 
> We were raised in the wild, altho it was only 3 miles to town, and were given free run of probably 500 acres. In SGa, the area was replete with Cottonmouths and Rattlers, but never once saw a Copperhead or Coral.
> 
> First: My mother and Grandmother instilled in us the fear of the Almighty and that included the Snake as the villain. Snakes caused all our problems according to their version of the scriptures, and were the embodiment of EVIL. We got a real heavy dose of this from as far back as I can remember.
> 
> Second: If you tried to put a snake on any of my family, you were dead meat on the spot. No fooling around, I am convinced they would kill you and feel absolutely justified.
> 
> Third: Us being so afraid of snakes gave them a false sense of security that we would be less likely to get bitten, and also that they would not feel so guilty if it happened, because they had done all humanly possible to prevent it.
> 
> Fourth: Rattlers killed our dogs, and that made us hate them all the more.
> 
> Fifth: A large rattler killed by somone in our area was shown as a trophy, and hung on a fence by the road so everybody could see. Some say folks did this to make it rain, but when I got one it was so everybody would talk about the big snake I killed.
> 
> Six: It was accepted and stated openly among our neighbors and acquaintances, that anybody that handled Rattlers was a fool. This was universal among ALL the people I knew until I left home.
> 
> So it was cultural reasons, spiritual reasons and pragmatism that taught me to loath and fear snakes. At college, I got over it cause I had a wife and was totally broke. Helped Ernie Rober feed Dr Jenkins snakes at the Whitehall Farm while Dr Jenkins worked on a snake repellant. The meanest snake among the crowd was a red colored rat snake. He hated Ernie and would come flying across the cage to bite him.




I have heard all those reasons at different times, but never all at the same time...... the "cultural" reason confuses me the most.  My family on one side has been in south Ga. since before the creek land rush and on the other side since the 1740s and nobody that I know of in my family except my maternal grandmother was ever afraid of snakes.  Maybe because they were all methodist we don't have a literal belief that the snakes of today were the same as the serpent of the bible.  Most of the really old cracker families I know don't have a familial fear of snakes, some individuals do but that is because of a family member or theirselves having been bit by one.  I understand that some people are afraid, but unless they know what they are killing (and there are numerous threads on here where nonpoisonous ones have been killed then asking for id) they might should consider learning about them before killing any snake blindly.  I do not begrudge someone killing a poisonous one, especially if kids or pets are in harms way, but to swerve to intentionally hit one on some lonely road in the middle of the woods is something else.  

I have hunted, trapped and fished most all my life, and I have never taken complete joy in killing anything, a part of me has always felt sorry at the act, but I see folks take glee and joy over killing a snake that is just trying to go about its life like any other creature.  If you kill a snake you should at least eat it, they actually are good eating....though I have never killed one, many a friend of mine has and we ate them.  If people really have some urge to kill them, go to south Fla. and hunt pythons, they need getting rid of and I would probably kill one if I came across it in the wild, though I have a pet python.

The one thing I miss more than anything from my youth is seeing the diamondbacks in the piney woods I love to haunt.  I get excited when I see a rattler and it is always a let down when I get a good enough look at it to see it is a canebrake.  I am excited about one fact alot of folks probably do not know about, there is a group in Alabama that is trying to bring back the big 3 of pine flat woods, the gopher tortoise, the eastern diamondback rattler and the eastern indigo...both of the snakes rely on the gopher and the indigo relies on the edb rattler for food once they are mature.  I actually have made a couple of contributions to them and hope they have sucess.  I know the nature conservancy who owns a good chunk of chickasawhatchee WMA has long term goals of doing the same thing there.  Some old time quail hunters will tell you that the eastern diamond back is needed because mature ones prey on the mesopredators that raid nests and they keep the cotton rat population down....(alot of folks think they eat the eggs too).  Whether that is true or not, it is true that the habitat inhabited by the big three is also great quail habitat, and preserving that habitat is near and dear to my heart....


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## Canyon

Jeff Raines said:


> I have only seen 1 cottonmouth and it was in Hancock County.
> 
> And for me to believe there are cottonmouths in Cobb/Paulding....I'd have to see it



Jeff - I would have to agree.  I would have to see it with my own two eyes before I believe it.  To the majority, any snake in or near water is believed to be a cottonmouth. Also, a good majority of non venomous snakes use traits or characteristics of their more potent relatives to help scare off the imposing threat.


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## Timberman

The most cottonmouths I've ever seen was on a tract I bought on hwy 97 between Bainbridge and Chattahoochee. It was a poplar white bay head between a tomato field and a railroad track. That was a bad hole. I put my big gun swamp logger from Telogia on it and still couldn't get it all. There was so many snakes in there you could smell them.

Mostly I saw them here and there and never worried too much about them. 

I will relate something I experienced regarding snakes. I was cruising a big tract just north of Blountstown on the west bank of the Appalachicola. It was late winter or early spring still cool in the mornings. I was walking down a road and came off the hill into the swamp. At the base of the hill was the first big slough and the owners had taken railroad pulpwood cars, tore out the undercarriage, cut off the ends and were using them as bridges. As I neared the bridge, It seemed the whole bridge was covered in snakes sunning. They saw me and went to slithering and plopping pell mell off the bridge into the water. They were all water snakes best I could tell. I hesitate to estimate the number but it was an impressive sight. Of course I ended up having to swim that and all the other sloughs in that swamp 4 or 5 times that day...


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## gacrotalus

Undoubtedly your snakes on Dick's creek were Northern water snakes ie _Nerodia sipedon_.  There are definitely cottonmouths pretty far north on the western side of the state (verified records in Fayette and Floyd counties for sure) and I've seen a few in central Wilkes on the east side.  I would not be shocked if one turned up in extreme southern Elbert county.  

If any are turning up in Rabun, Habersham, White, Union, Towns, Fannin, Hart, Franklin, Stephens, or Banks someone is really bored and putting them there.  



tim scott said:


> sorry but that map is a joke.... have killed about 2 dozen over the years up on dicks creek.
> 
> back 40 years ago when going to school at north ga. college, there was a big fuss, made headlines for about two weeks. was summer and some kids that climbed a fence around one of those many reservoirs in atlanta. first kid jumped in to swim and didn't come up. his friends ran for help. took them a day or two to find his body... he had some 300 bites all over him. report said he died instantly. city crews spent days dynamiting the reservour and using pitch forks to load dump trucks full of them.... the pics of all those dead snakes was scary.
> 
> and they do have cotton mouths in lake lanier. first one i ever saw was there. my grand father spotted it fishing and just had to show me it up close... using a stick to open its mouth to show the fangs. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - little boat wasn't big enough for me and a big poisonous snake.
> tim


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## totterypolebranch

*Cottonmouths in Bonds Swamp*

My best Cottonmouth story was from 1977.  I was working on the landsat project (first aerial photography done by satellite) and was identifying pure stands of trees.  It looked like there was one type on the aerial photo I was  using south of Macon in Bonds Swamp.  I went into the area by walking down a railroad track.  The track was elevated up above the swamp.  As I was walking down the track I just happened to look down and I walked within about 3 feet of a big cottonmouth.  He let me walk on by. I saw 2 or 3 more and decided I had my information and departed  carefully.  This was in May and I guess they were warming up on the gravel near the tracks.


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## ThomasCobb123

*Cottonmouths?  You better believe they're here.*

I've been catching and identifying poisonous snakes here in Georgia since 1951.
I have tried to tell and show hardheads that there are real live cottonmouths right here in the Atlanta city limits but "they" always know it all...especially if their info comes from some yankee "authority". They're here now in that swampy area off Clifton Rd. before turning into Wesley Woods about 1/4 mile from Briarcliff Rd.
Before 6 Flags was built most of that property was owned by the Carl Couey family and there were cottonmouths galore on it (NOT WATER SNAKES) and I had a standing bet for all comers that we'd put $200 at one end of the area and they had to walk through it barefooted in shorts and if they made it without getting hit, the stake money was theirs.
Nobody ever wanted to try and take the money....another case of choking under pressure.
The weedy areas around the old lake in Westview Cemetery were full of them.
The same can be said of the woods along the creek in Utoy Boulder Park.
(I'm assuming the park is still there...haven't been over there in years.)
I was hired by the city of Atlanta to clean them out of The Old Mill boat ride out at Lakewood Park back in 1955 when I was just a teenage kid.Took me and another guy all summer to do that. 
I have never been bitten or had a close call because I AM ALWAYS LOOKING....no matter where I'm at.
I hate all poisonous snakes.  In my opinion, the Lord made a mistake by allowing them to exist.
Why do I keep doing it???
Who knows...maybe some psychological death wish thing....like the guys who used to ride the motorcycles around the walls of death in the old wooden motordromes at carnivals.
Don't be fooled by one of those college educated biologists or herpetologists who say they "won't come north of the fall line".  I say BULL...a snake can't read a map.  They're out there allright......plenty of 'em


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## NCHillbilly

ThomasCobb123 said:


> I've been catching and identifying poisonous snakes here in Georgia since 1951.
> I have tried to tell and show hardheads that there are real live cottonmouths right here in the Atlanta city limits but "they" always know it all...especially if their info comes from some yankee "authority". They're here now in that swampy area off Clifton Rd. before turning into Wesley Woods about 1/4 mile from Briarcliff Rd.
> Before 6 Flags was built most of that property was owned by the Carl Couey family and there were cottonmouths galore on it (NOT WATER SNAKES) and I had a standing bet for all comers that we'd put $200 at one end of the area and they had to walk through it barefooted in shorts and if they made it without getting hit, the stake money was theirs.
> Nobody ever wanted to try and take the money....another case of choking under pressure.
> The weedy areas around the old lake in Westview Cemetery were full of them.
> The same can be said of the woods along the creek in Utoy Boulder Park.
> (I'm assuming the park is still there...haven't been over there in years.)
> I was hired by the city of Atlanta to clean them out of The Old Mill boat ride out at Lakewood Park back in 1955 when I was just a teenage kid.Took me and another guy all summer to do that.
> I have never been bitten or had a close call because I AM ALWAYS LOOKING....no matter where I'm at.
> I hate all poisonous snakes.  In my opinion, the Lord made a mistake by allowing them to exist.
> Why do I keep doing it???
> Who knows...maybe some psychological death wish thing....like the guys who used to ride the motorcycles around the walls of death in the old wooden motordromes at carnivals.
> Don't be fooled by one of those college educated biologists or herpetologists who say they "won't come north of the fall line".  I say BULL...a snake can't read a map.  They're out there allright......plenty of 'em



Actually, if you'll look at the cottonmouth range map for Georgia that those ignorant yankee college-educated herpetologists made, you'll see that they show cottonmouths living in the metro Atlanta area-there are confirmed populations in Fulton, Douglas, Fayette, and Clayton counties.


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## buddylee

That map shows them absent from most of Monroe county. I saw plenty of them around ponds and creeks growing up.


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## Killdee

Bump this back up for you Cottonmoutholigist's !!!!


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## Nicodemus

Got this shot before I retired from the Power Company. This was just east of Leary on the Chickasawhatchee WMA. One of the boys up in a bucket truck saw it rolling our way headed down the right of way and hollered at me to grab my camera. Since I didn`t need to be whipped, I hid behind the truck and took the picture. I didn`t want that thang to see me.


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## Killdee

You can tell by the 2 tracks that that area is loaded with hoop snakes.


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## Nicodemus

Killdee said:


> You can tell by the 2 tracks that that area is loaded with hoop snakes.





Tony, they should have paid us hazard money to work west Dougherty-east Calhoun Counties. The things we suffered to keep the lights on.....


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## ghadarits

*Poisonous snakes*



Nicodemus said:


> Jay, a cottonmouth hotspot is that swamp behind the Blakely Primary electrical substation, on HWY 200, right before you get into Blakely. Strangely, very few water snakes there. I remember sayin` I had never seen a copperhead around the house here, but about a month ago, somebody flattened one on the road out in front of the house. It was about 3 feet long. Been a slow year for me, *I haven`t seen hardly any snakes except for young spreadin` adders (hognose snakes*). I`ve seen several in the yard in the last week or two. Light gray with some good colors, not like the solid black ones I normally have here. I actually thought I had me a pygmy rattler when I saw the first one. Looked almost like one at a glance.



 I caught a Georgia gaboon viper aka hog nose and a fer de lance aka eastern king up at lake Hartwell last weekend. The funny thing was none of the seven other people there even questioned the type of snake when I told them............


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## OldBat

ghadarits said:


> fer de lance



Nero Wolfe fan?


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## shakey gizzard

Killdee said:


> You can tell by the 2 tracks that that area is loaded with hoop snakes.



You beat me to it!


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## The mtn man

Am I right to say a cotton mouth is nothing more than an aquatic more aggressive copperhead? aint they basically the same? except different color. I have never seen one in all my days up here.There are those that see one everytime they go to the lake though, but you all know how that is. The same folks kill corn snakes and swear they have a world record copperhead.


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## Nicodemus

cklem said:


> Am I right to say a cotton mouth is nothing more than an aquatic more aggressive copperhead? aint they basically the same? except different color. I have never seen one in all my days up here.There are those that see one everytime they go to the lake though, but you all know how that is. The same folks kill corn snakes and swear they have a world record copperhead.





Not in my opinion. Out of all of em, the copperhead is the one I have the least experience with. I just don`t see that many down here, but in the last few years, I have seen more than normal. Cottonmouths have the reputation for aggressiveness but to me it`s more of a stand your ground deal. I`ve seen diamondbacks do the same. I`ve also heard the stories about cottonmouths chasin` folks all over the swamp and halfway across the county. Maybe so, but I`ve been around em all my life, and I`ve never had one chase me.


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## karen936

Nicodemus said:


> I really don`t know the answer to that. By all rights, I should be terrified of them. In the early 1900s when my Grandaddy was 6 years old, he was struck on the foot by a big diamondback. My Great Grandmother did the only known thing back then, cut an X and suck the venom out. They then carried him back to the house and by the time they got there, they had to cut his overalls off, because his leg was swelled so bad. One of my Uncles then poured a good shot of stumplikker over the bite. That night when the doctor finally got there, he washed it and said that was all he could do.
> 
> 
> It took him a long time to get over that, and he had an awful scar on his foot that he carried to the grave with him. For the rest of his life he had a deathly fear of any snake, as did my Grandmother. The last thing I would hear as I went out the door was "Look out for snakes". I don`t know why, but I just never saw anything about them to scare anybody.



Whats stump licker


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## Nicodemus

karen936 said:


> Whats stump licker





Homemade corn whisky.


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## karen936

I found this on the net just to share it.
http://www.snopes.com/critters/snakes/waterski.asp


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## NCHillbilly

cklem said:


> Am I right to say a cotton mouth is nothing more than an aquatic more aggressive copperhead? aint they basically the same? except different color. I have never seen one in all my days up here.There are those that see one everytime they go to the lake though, but you all know how that is. The same folks kill corn snakes and swear they have a world record copperhead.



They're closely related, both are moccasins in the genus Agkistrodon, but the cottonmouth gets a lot bigger and is much more dangerously venomous. And no, we don't have cottonmouths anywhere near the NC mountains, at least since they shut down the Soco Gardens Zoo snakepit. You have to go down past Raleigh to find them in NC, and down to around Columbia to find them in SC. They come up to around Atlanta on the west side of Georgia, and to around Elberton on the east side. We have plenty of northern water snakes.

I saw two big ol' cottonmouths on an island just south of Charleston a couple weeks ago. One was probably four feet long and nearly as big as my wrist. He was eatin' a frog in some standing water in a bush thicket beside the boardwalk going down to the beach. You could literally hear the waves breaking, and here were two cottonmouths in a swampy spot just behind the dunes. I didn't realize they went that close to the salt.


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## Nicodemus

NCHillbilly said:


> They're closely related, both are moccasins in the genus Agkistrodon, but the cottonmouth gets a lot bigger and is much more dangerously venomous. And no, we don't have cottonmouths anywhere near the NC mountains, at least since they shut down the Soco Gardens Zoo snakepit. You have to go down past Raleigh to find them in NC, and down to around Columbia to find them in SC. They come up to around Atlanta on the west side of Georgia, and to around Elberton on the east side. We have plenty of northern water snakes.
> 
> I saw two big ol' cottonmouths on an island just south of Charleston a couple weeks ago. One was probably four feet long and nearly as big as my wrist. He was eatin' a frog in some standing water in a bush thicket beside the boardwalk going down to the beach. You could literally hear the waves breaking, and here were two cottonmouths in a swampy spot just behind the dunes. I didn't realize they went that close to the salt.





Down along The Forgotten Coast, cottonmouths, diamondbacks, pygmies, and gators thrive down in there.


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## T-N-T

I didnt read most of the thread,  but felt I would share my story of Cottonmouth aggressiveness-
When my dad was say 18 or so he and my grandfather were fishing in a boat.  Dad had just bought a .32 caliber pistol.  A moccasin was spotted, and Pop said give me that gun.  Dad obliged and Pop fired a round.  The snake turned and came at the boat.  More shots fired, but a moving snake swimming is hard to hit.....   So, a boat paddle was reached for and swung at said snake.  Snake was hit, and decided to leave.
I have heard all my life they are aggressive, but have never seen it myself.


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## JustUs4All

Some animals, when cornered and motivated by fear, will make an aggressive move toward a larger adversary as sort of a last resort.  I have seen a black snake do this before going into its defensive ball position.  I have seen a hog nosed snake do this before going on its back and playing dead.  I suspect that the aggressiveness seen by some in the cottonnouth is a similar behavior.  I have had a big one in a coil making the open mouth display that would not bite the stick I was poking him with to get him back in the creek and out of the way of my dog.


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