# Easter



## blindhog (Feb 18, 2005)

Do you buy the traditional good friday to sunday easter explanation?

Where are the three days and three nights?

And who set the date?  Is it in scripture?


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## reylamb (Feb 18, 2005)

Mark 16:9
"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
The first day is Sunday, since the Sabbath is Saturday.

Luke 24: 46
"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:"

Acts 10:40
"Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;"

I Corinthians 15:4
"And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"



Since Christ rose on the First Day, Sunday, and it was on the 3rd day he was cricified on Friday.

The specific date is not important.  What is important is that Christ died, was buried, and on the third day he rose from the grave.  Here is a case where tradition and customs, regardless of the denomination, is not relevant as long as it agrees with Scripture.  The traditional date of Easter is not important as long as the denomination does not teach it is required to believe that it was the actual date and failure to believe that is sin.

It is very similar to Christmas.  There is no documentable proof that Christ was actually born on December 25th.  Most Biblical scholars put His birth much earlier in the calendar year.  The 25th is simply a remembrance that He was born.


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 18, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> And who set the date?


What Rey said.  And....


> Prior to A.D. 325, Easter was variously celebrated on different days of the week, includingFriday, Saturday, and Sunday. In that year, the Council of Nicaea was convened by emperorConstantine. It issued the Easter Rule which states that Easter shall be celebrated on the firstSunday that occurs after the first full moon on or after the vernal equinox. However, a caveatmust be introduced here. The "full moon" in the rule is the ecclesiastical full moon, which isdefined as the fourteenth day of a tabular lunation, where day 1 corresponds to theecclesiastical New Moon. It does not always occur on the same date as the astronomical fullmoon. The ecclesiastical "vernal equinox" is always on March 21. Therefore, Easter iscelebrated on a Sunday between the dates of March 22 and April 25.


 Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 18, 2005)

And prior to that...


> The origins of Easter’s date are tied into pagan celebrations of spring as well as the Jewish feast of Passover.


Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## blindhog (Feb 18, 2005)

So....as of this writing was the beginning of the day counted to start at the sundown, which was Jewish way of counting days?
So that would in actuality be early saturday eve when He arose.  So He was not in the grave al of sat night at all, was He?  Not a full night.

Does man's tradition match the truth?

I will endeavor to show scripturally how we have been misled throught the teachings of men.  I will pull together some info for the studious to read.

As for christmas....well...that would be a whole different study in obedience and truth.


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## blindhog (Feb 18, 2005)

I will point you to just one of many scriptural facts about "Easter".
Origins of Good Friday. Did you ever wonder why Good Friday is recognized as the day Jesus died and Sunday as the day he arose but yet had trouble explaining how he could thus be buried for three days and three nights? (Matthew 12:40; Matthew 27:63; Mark 8:31; Mark 9:31; Mark 10:34) The answer is simple: He didn't actually die on "Good Friday." The Chaldeans offered cakes to Ishtar on the equivalent of the day we know as Good Friday. When the established church wanted to appease the paganistic people in order to "convert" them to Christianity, they moved the dates accordingly. Jesus actually died on the day of Preparation of Passover Week, which that year occurred on Wednesday (John 19:14, 31-42). Thursday was the Sabbath of the Passover. Friday, Christ was still in the tomb. Saturday was the "regular" Sabbath. Jesus arose after the Saturday Sabbath was concluded, which was the first day of the week, the day we know as Sunday (Mark 16:9; John 20:1). For further clarification of the days concerning Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, see Matthew 27:50-28:7; Mark 15:25-16:6; Luke 23:44-24:8; John 19:14-20:17. An in-depth study from another author which addresses the timing of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection is also currently available on the Internet at www.thevictor.org/bowen/bowenpp.htm.


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## reylamb (Feb 19, 2005)

Riddle me this, does it matter?  What is important?  I know of no denominations that state that their members must believe Christ dies on a Friday to get saved.  It is simply an observance of the death of Christ.  

What is important?  That Christ died, regardless of the actual day, and that on the 3rd day he rose again.  The semantics are immaterial, Easter is simply put an observance of the actual death of Christ, not a demand to believers that it was the actual day he died.  Are we majoring on the minor worrying about the semantics of exactly what day he died?


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## blindhog (Feb 19, 2005)

To me it is a matter of obedience.

We are commanded that we must worship in spirit and truth.  This is more than just semantics.

We are not to incorporate or mimic anything pagan in our worship of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Again more than just semantics.

No, I don't think this is relevant to judging whether one is saved or not.  
God knows the true re-born spirit.

I just think God has given us the scripture for our outline to living a christian life, according to His will.
And His will is just what we should seek, not the pleasing of men and their traditions.

And about denominations........another study in truth on that too.....


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 19, 2005)

Blindhog,
When do you celebrate Easter and Christmas?  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## blindhog (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't celebrate Easter.  I celebrate the risen Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, not some pagan named man-made tradition.

I celebrate that He is risen all the time.

I don't celebrate Christmas, because even the name is blasphemy in its meaning.  Christ died ONCE, and it was done.
Mass is a re-crucifiction, of Jesus, in its meaning and origin.  The pagan traditions incorporated into the supposed worship of Jesus is against the will of God.  
Did it ever strike you funny how the whole world celebrates "Christmas", yet scripture tells us the world hates Jesus.?

I was once into all the traditions, yet when I started praying earnestly to be led to worship in spirit and in truth, Jesus removed the "traditional lenses" from my eyes.

Remember that Jesus was persecuted because He went against the traditions and religion of the "clergy".  They had over the years developed unscriptural rules and traditions, against the will of God.

I mean no harm to anyone or ill will at all.
I am speaking the truth in love.

Blessings


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 20, 2005)

blinghog,
So you see harm in taking a day (any day) and paying special attention to the fact He became man by birth or the fact He rose from the dead?  Two events, without which we'd still be lost.  I understand you say you celebrate it everyday (as I hope we all do) but I'm asking if you see harm in dedicating a day to those two solitary, integral events in His (and our) life?  
I guess the answer is yes but don't want to assume.  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## blindhog (Feb 20, 2005)

Read my post.  I am against, as is God, the incorporation of pagan customs into the worship of our Lord and Saviour.

I don't think it is "bad" to pick a day to celebrate those events of the birth and death of Christ.  But then again, is there a scriptural command for such?
So, as one who doesn't follow man's tradition, am I to be put down?

We are to follow Christ, and He actually followed the Jewish feast as ordained by the Father. 
So where does that put us?


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 20, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> Read my post.  I am against, as is God, the incorporation of pagan customs into the worship of our Lord and Saviour.
> 
> I don't think it is "bad" to pick a day to celebrate those events of the birth and death of Christ.  But then again, is there a scriptural command for such?
> So, as one who doesn't follow man's tradition, am I to be put down?
> ...


I think you might be reading something I'm not saying.  I was just trying to determine if YOU as an individual set aside a day of your personal life to celebrate or recognize in ANY way the birth our death of our Savior and perhaps what the frequency of that might be.  I'm not asking if the Easter Bunny or Santa shows up.  And I most certainly am not putting you 'down'!  Far from it!  Just trying to understand your beliefs.  
Peace.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## blindhog (Feb 20, 2005)

No, I don't actually set aside a certain day for "celebrating" the resurrection or the birth of Christ.

Is there a scripture that commands me to do so?

If there is, then I will endeavor to obey.

If no scriptural command for such, then I ask how do YOU look at me for not doing so?

Here's my attitude in a nutshell so to speak.....

I don't "go to church", I am the church wherever I go.

I see where Jesus ordained that we brake bread and drink some wine for His sake, as a remembrance of Him;  and this as in the custom of the NT believers in the early church, on every "first day of the week" assembly.
Not as in the pattern of the Roman catholic church either.
Not once "a quarter" either.  Sounds rather corporate America, uh?


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 20, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> If no scriptural command for such, then I ask how do YOU look at me for not doing so?


I look at you as a brother in Christ with a perspective I'm interested in. 
What's the Catholic reference?  Did I miss something?  (I ain't too swuft sometimes...    )
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 20, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> Not once "a quarter" either.  Sounds rather corporate America, uh?


ps - Who celebrates what once a quarter?  Or was that just a random example?  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## blindhog (Feb 20, 2005)

Well....I just visited a very small church that the pastor in charge stated that communion would be once a quarter.  I have been in Baptist churches where that was the custom.

As for the Catholic reference I'm speaking of the strict rituality and pomp of the ceremony.

Our modern system of doing church is so ritualistic to me.

Jesus just relaxed and passed the bread and wine(they were having a fine meal ya know), and in some "breakaway" NT assemblies today the bread and wine (grape juice) is simply laid out on a table for each to partake as one is led.
To brake bread should be a relational and intimate action between you and the Lord.
Remembering Him.  He said as OFTEN as you do this.  Well, often to me means often, or a lot.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 21, 2005)

As to Easter, I am offended by how the world attempts to hide the reason for Easter behind eggs and a bunny.   Same for Christmas.   My family and I celebrate Easter, but we rejoice in the resurrection and all that that purchased for us.   (Not just life after this life)    

There is a scripture which states that we should not judge others for keeping certain days holy....celebrating new moons....etc.     We are free....but we shouldn't do things that offend spiritually immature believers.


BTW Blindhog, I enjoyed the link to the 'crucification time table' site....  interesting read.

Bandy


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## Todd E (Feb 21, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> I don't "go to church", I am the church wherever I go.



Should I take this as to mean that you do not attend a church of any denomination?


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## blindhog (Feb 21, 2005)

Todd E said:
			
		

> Should I take this as to mean that you do not attend a church of any denomination?



Yes....we "do church" at home for the present time.  finding others of the same persuasion is hard in a small town it seems. I personally know that years of tradition are hard to see through.

As for a denomination:
1Cor 1:12..." Now this I say, that every one of you saith,  I am of Paul (Baptist);  and I of Apollos (Methodist);  and I of Cephas (Church of God);  and I of Christ.  Is Christ divided?......"
I added the parentheses.


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## blindhog (Feb 21, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> There is a scripture which states that we should not judge others for keeping certain days holy....celebrating new moons....etc.     We are free....but we shouldn't do things that offend spiritually immature believers.
> 
> Could you give us the scripture?


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## matthewsman (Feb 21, 2005)

*Hey Blind hog*

That's not a new concept....I know many people that believe like you do,most are Apostolic in the the UPC or similar churches....Ishtar was reverenced in a Spring fertility ritualistic holiday in which men and women were free to sleep with other people,the fertility symbols were rabbits(wonder why?) and eggs.....As you referenced Christmas stemmed from a Winter solstice type holiday too,also pagan.I think it is wonderful that God saw fit to inspire people to turn from a popular pagan holiday to worshipping him........."If it offends your brother to eat meat(sacrificial meat)....."The disciples ate meat previously sacrificed to pagan gods,they knew there was no power in that god,nor the sacrifice,but they were nourished from it to do God's work.......If a striiper tithes can God bless the money for his use?Can God offer a better alternative than the pagan holidays?He has.The holiday of Christmas or Easter means something completley different to the Born-again believer than to the pagan...God knows the heart,if we don't praise his name the rocks and trees will call out.........Praise him on Friday the 13,praise him on St valentines Day(Tell your wife you love her all year,but don't forget THAT day...)Turn a pagan holiday into something that glorifies him.....Anyway,good luck finding you a church.I know you're in the woods a little bit,but a church alive is worth the drive....forsake not the gathering of your brethren,,,,donnie


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## blindhog (Feb 21, 2005)

donnie, the point I'm trying to get across is this....God does NOT want us to use or do or copy ANYTHING pagan and incorporate it into the worship of Him.

God did not turn the popular pagan holiday around....it was man! Actually the Roman Catholic church under Constantine.  For the purpose of "appealing' to the pagans, so they would not have to leave all things behind from their former religions and they could still be "good catholics".


The disciples ONLY ate the meat, but did NOT copy a ritual or custom associated with the pagan belief!

It's not the WHEN,  but the HOW and WHAT that's done.

If you can show me where in scripture God okays us to use pagan customs and traditions in His worship......

Blessings.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 22, 2005)

BlindHawg....here it is....

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 


I will also add that, although I don't have anything against missing church, (which happens often during hunting season and because of AAU baseball games with my son) Paul admonishes us in Hebrews to get together with other christians....the 'assembling of ourselves together'.....       I can understand doing the home thing while you search for a church that you can feel comfortable in.   I wouldn't look for the perfect church though....can't say that I've ever been in one of those.    


Bandy


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## blindhog (Feb 22, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> BlindHawg....here it is....
> 
> Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
> 
> ...



bandy, thanks for finding that scripture, I was lazy.  If you read the context around that verse you will find it is referring to the Jewish laws, and that in Christ we are no longer bound in those, in other words ordinances that originated from Godliness.
NOT pagan oriented thangs, never did the Lord allow us that liberty.

There ain't no perfect church till Jesus comes back.

I'm just saying there's a more scriptural pattern to follow than man's tradition, which most are acorns that dropped off of the Catholic tree.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 22, 2005)

I figured the new moons were pagan.....can't think of where they were celebrated by Jews elsewhere in scripture.    

Anyway....very few celebrating Easter realize that there may be pagan links to the date.   Same for Christmas.    Throwing rice at weddings also was a pagan based ritual but it is done today without thought as to its origins.   All in fun....merely traditional.    

One of my pet peeves is the Sunday night service.   Where did that come from/start?    I've been to some churchs where they frowned on you if you didn't come back for the evening service....

Bandy


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## blindhog (Feb 23, 2005)

2Kings 4:23 has a reference to the new moon as having some significance in relation to the sabbath.

No, many don't realize the pagan origin of the customs that have been incorporated into "Easter" and christmas.
This plainly against the will of God to do so.

But....where are the watchmen?  Aren't they to sound the alarm?

And as far as eve. services, that whole tradition is man-made. I won't mention what I really think about all that.


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## cpaboy (Feb 23, 2005)

BlindHog says "finding others of the same persuasion is hard in a small town it seems."  

I hope you don't find many.  I've been attending the same church all my life.  I've seen hundreds come & go and even encountered some who believe like you.  I've yet to meet someone that did not attend a local body of believers who was moving closer to the Lord.

Can you be a Christian and not attend church?  Absolutely.

Can you have a close walk with the Lord while not attending church?  Highly unlikely.


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## Randy (Feb 23, 2005)

cpaboy said:
			
		

> Can you have a close walk with the Lord while not attending church?  Highly unlikely.



Yes you can!


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree Randy....we can have a great relationship with the Lord even if we were on an isolated island.....say, like Patmos!   LOL   

Bandy


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## cpaboy (Feb 23, 2005)

I have never met anyone growing closer to the Lord who believes church attendance is unnecessary.  I've seen people out of church for reasons beyond their control (e.g. extended illness, job) who seemed to be able to maintain a close walk.  But never otherwise.

Out of local body = Out of fellowship with the Lord.


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## Randy (Feb 23, 2005)

cpaboy said:
			
		

> Out of local body = Out of fellowship with the Lord.



OK!  I can not even begin to explain and you have no idea so I will leave it at that!


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## blindhog (Feb 23, 2005)

I think you will see Paul grew closer to the Lord while isolated.


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## blindhog (Feb 23, 2005)

I did not say assembling together with other saints is unecessary, we gather at home.
Where two or more are gathered together.....

But to say you have to attend a traditional ritualistic service in a corporate building?  Wellll.........

It is the Word that is the spiritual food, along with prayer, and the gathering together is good.


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## matthewsman (Feb 23, 2005)

*Guys Guys Guys*

Richard Baxter....givin'him proffs....said"In necessary things,unity;in doubtful things,liberty;in all things,charity"

If you are beaten,exiled,or imprisoned you can get closer to God.......If you're not in that situation,you need to be in church.....CPA boy is right,if the Bible is your guide...Hebrews 10:25-25 and 23 and 26 if you want to read more....I'm not going to make it easy for you by pasting it,read those verses they're pretty strong and not open for interpretation......I know,I know,worshipping in the "cathedral of the oak with the sunrise for stained glass and the birds for your choir" and all.......don't fool yourself into thinking you are serving God solely in that manner or getting eveything you need from your own intellect........

I've thought about this post a lot,and looked for verses pertaining to Holidays in the Bible.....Much is said of unbelievers and gentiles and witnessing to them.He that winneth souls is wise,if it offends your brother to eat meat,don't.verses about being a stumbling block etc.....So,I'm saying none of this to be confrontational,but out of concern for anyone that has the ability to be at church,but finds no need to be there...

Bandy,John was at Patmos when he had his vision(Rev)I don't see why he was there,but is there any correlation to why Blind Hog can't find a local church?

Blind hog,look at Acts 15:19-20 and 28 especially along with 29.To put it in context,people were teaching that gentiles had to be circumsized to be saved,or recieve the Holy Ghost........They were putting restrictions on salvation that made it difficult for the people to turn from their customs and traditions,to Salvation thru Jesus....Because of the amount of restrictions and the fact that they were not necessaryPaul and Barnubus were sent out with the message and I'll put it here because I don't want it overlooked....

Acts 15:28-29 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements.You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols,from blood,from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.You will do well to avoid these things .Farewell.

I don't think I'll change your views and you seem pretty adament in your belief.You should have no problem finding a church that agrees with you although maybe not as strongly as yourself.If that belief is not essential to salvation,to you,I would suggest you go somewhere that they teach the word that you can accept.

I say this as future advice not out of anger or to be abrasive.Next time teach or give your view first, rather than asking others views then debating them.

If Jesus IS the "reason for the season"or the Cross is more important than easter eggs to someone,they are following God and their hearts by worshipping him.

We are not trying to argue with you,although that's important to you if it keeps you from a church,I think the main focus of us Christians should be evangelism,rather than debating slight doctrinal differences.....For a long time I found many reasons to not go to a traditional church,but it's not about me,it's about God.I'll be dissappointed if all I do is show up alone in Heaven...

Let's instead discuss ways to reach the unsaved,donnie


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 23, 2005)

We know (from being implied at the beginning of Revelation and from other sources) that John was exiled to Patmos "for the Word of the Lord, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ".   Rev 1:9

I mentioned Patmos to show that John could be away from churches and people and still stay close to the Lord....

I think it was Ravi Zacharias who said..."Christ has forever released us from having to worship in a certain building or geographical location..."    

I don't have to travel to Mecca.....or pray in a certain direction.....or pray a certain amount of time or times a day.....    Don't have to pay money either....although I feel like my giving brings God's blessings.  "God blesses what is sown".    

Brothers, I consider these threads a good source of discussion/debate.   I hope I do not offend.

Bandy


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## blindhog (Feb 23, 2005)

No offense bandy.

Matthewsman, I think a zeal for truth is missing today. Perhaps facing it will cause men to turn from a tradition they hold dear.

However you try to rationalize it, God does not get pleased by our mixing pagan things into the worship of Him.

Why can't those things just be left out?  let's please God and not men (ourself included).

I believe in assembling with fellow saints, I just can't get fed properly in the present systems that are so predominate.

I am not putting ANY restrictions on salvation, but just pointing out some meat for the spiritually mature to chew on.
Blessings


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## Todd E (Feb 23, 2005)

Seeing as the thread is wandering and wavering in between the main header...............

You and I can be close to God at work, at home, in the deer stand, or in a bass boat. The one thing that will separate you and I from the closeness of God is unconfessed sin and the unwillingness to turn from it. I hope that everyone here realizes that. 

From the statements here about not attending church, then I feel it is safe for me to summize that some here don't have a ministry within the church of your choosing. Church is not for us(as in it's all about me). First and foremost, it is about God and coming toether as a body of believers and worshiping Him. It is also about ministering to others. What if all the teachers, praise and worship leaders, etc. decided to go to the deer stand and be close to God and forego church attendance? Who would be there for the lost and hurting that show up looking for Hope. What about the teenagers that face so many temptations today? Who would help and show that they care? What about the little kids that need training or watching while their parents go and hear God's Word preached? I know, I know. It's the same problem with everything else. Leave it up for someone else to do, while I take care of myself and what makes me happy.   

Is it possible that one chooses not to attend church because one cares more about oneself than they do others? Sure, these could be construed as harsh words, but.......if you don't attend church, stay in the woods all the time, etc.-------then just what exactly are you doing to minister to others. God calls us out to do that, ya' know  It aint' just for the preacher or the fourth grade ss class teacher. We all have individual ministries and there are reasons that some people have never found theirs. Wonder what that reason(s) is?

What is all the hoopla about traditions? Is it bulletins, certain songs, celebrating The Lord's Supper once a month, service times. Man, I'm a thirty four year old Baptist who likes loud upbeat contemporary music and services, doesn't frown on some issues others do...........but I still realize tradition has its place. So, I guess a traditional Easter Sonrise Service or a Candlelight Lord's Supper on Christmas Eve both eat at you??


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## blindhog (Feb 24, 2005)

My point is not about going and staying in the woods instead of assembling with the saints.

I realize fully that the majority will not see the point I am trying to make.
I present it nevertheless.

What eats at me is:
 calling it "Easter", mixing in the pagan oriented customs with the worship of Jesus.

Not studying the scripture for the truth about the "good friday to sunday" teaching, that just doesn't fit.

I consider my whole life a ministry, my walk, how I "flavor" others with my salt.

God commands that we worship in spirit and in truth, why not seek it?

look at ....www.ntrf.org


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## Randy (Feb 24, 2005)

Todd E said:
			
		

> ...some here don't have a ministry within the church of your choosing. Church is not for us(as in it's all about me). First and foremost, it is about God and coming toether as a body of believers and worshiping Him.
> 
> Is it possible that one chooses not to attend church because one cares more about oneself than they do others? Sure, these could be construed as harsh words, but.......if you don't attend church, stay in the woods all the time, etc.-------then just what exactly are you doing to minister to others.



Unfortunately most churches have changed!  It is not about ministry anymore in a lot of churches.  It is about MONEY.  It is about what can you do for the church, not what can the Church do for the lost.  And further I can minister outside the church much more than inside.  The lost  do not attend church for the most part.  I love to have a beer with somebody who is lost and start on a conversation about GOD!  I can not tell you how many times I have had them on their knees after a beer or had them call me the next day to talk some more!  Does not sound right huh?  Not Christian thing to do?  I know, that is what I was tought in the Baptist church also.  But guess what?  I talk to more lost souls than the Baptist preacher does.


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## GeauxLSU (Feb 24, 2005)

Divorcing yourself from a church is lot like divorcing yourself from a marriage IMHO.  It's just too easy.  (Not to drag that thread up again but the similarities to me seem many.)  
There's plenty of things I could find wrong in my church that I could use to 'justify' why I shouldn't go.  And I've done it before....   Pretty sure I could come up with reasons about ANY church if that was my goal.   However, as others have said, it's not about me.  I have to remind myself that every now and then.  
Randy, no you reason you can't continue your individual and successful ministry outside the church walls (obviously we are called to do just that.).  
Threads like this just always make me sad to think that something so bad drove a member away from a church despite all the GOOD that surely most church's do.  
Nobody is better or worse for going or not, but having done both, their does seem to be more reason to go than not.  
 
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


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## BANDERSNATCH (Feb 24, 2005)

Colossians 1:24.     Jesus' body is the church.....not wood and steel...but believers.   Divorce yourself from believing in Jesus and you are in trouble...

Bandy


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## blindhog (Feb 24, 2005)

Randy said:
			
		

> Unfortunately most churches have changed!  It is not about ministry anymore in a lot of churches.  It is about MONEY.  It is about what can you do for the church, not what can the Church do for the lost.  And further I can minister outside the church much more than inside.  The lost  do not attend church for the most part.  I love to have a beer with somebody who is lost and start on a conversation about GOD!  I can not tell you how many times I have had them on their knees after a beer or had them call me the next day to talk some more!  Does not sound right huh?  Not Christian thing to do?  I know, that is what I was tought in the Baptist church also.  But guess what?  I talk to more lost souls than the Baptist preacher does.




Churches are sooooo corporate America, ya know?


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## Todd E (Feb 25, 2005)

So then,...............

along the topic of _minister_ do John 21:15-17 and Eph 4:12 mean nothing to ya'll about "Feeding the Church" and "Edifying the Church" 

What do you get from reading and studying those verses?



Remember...............

very important is the fact that we must die to self in our relationship with God and that is a continual process cause self can and will try to get in the way each and every day.


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## Todd E (Feb 25, 2005)

"I can not tell you how many times I have had them on their knees....."

It is not us that gets a person on their knees.

....."Does not sound right huh? Not Christian thing to do? I know, that is what I was tought in the Baptist church also."

My convictions agree. Is that the true example that Jesus calls us to lead by? Why not allow God to tell an individual what is right for them rather than setting a possible improper example?

" But guess what? I talk to more lost souls than the Baptist preacher does."

Pretty bold statement there...........................


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## blindhog (Feb 25, 2005)

Todd E, I am sorry man but I don't think you have understood my point at all.  You are steeped in the predominate religion methods, and can't get those "traditional" lenses off.
No harm intended by this statement, as I was once the same way.
Look at www.ntrf.org.


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## Todd E (Feb 25, 2005)

I'm sorry that you feel that I'm caught up in religion and methods of it, when I'm actually not. I have only spoken words from what God has shown me, when ya'll have discussed issues that I felt I may have healthy input on. I can testify to the fact that God lead us to the church we are at now and He has done many works within my family there. May God lead you and your family to a place where you can enjoy the same happiness that my family does. I don't really know if you are looking or not. If you are a supporter of the ntrf, then you are opposed to what I hope you could find.


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## PWalls (Feb 26, 2005)

My family celebrates Easter every year. Do we hide easter eggs? Yes. Do we go to an Easter service at Church? Yes. Do we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus from Good Friday to Easter Sunday? You betcha.

I was saved and became a Christian roughly one year ago. This past hunting season, for the first time since I was 12, I did not go hunting on Sundays. I was in Church on Sunday mornings and night. Did I have a worse season because of it. Emphatically, no. I may not have seen more deer, simply because I wasn't there, but I felt better for being in Church.

I am sorry that some of you seem to have had bad circumstances with Churches, but I haven't and I love mine. Yes, I can spread God's Word on my own outside of a church (and do so), but coming together with a body of believers for support and more effective outreach (beyond my limited reach) is a good thing.

Also, are we not to keep the Sabbath holy? Does that mean going to Church, worshipping God and spending the day with Him? Or, does that mean doing whatever we want to do, fishing or hunting or whatever? I believe that people in the Bible would go to a synagogue or church (or home) and spen all day with him (no work or recreation). That is the other reason that I didn't go hunting. No matter what you say about worshipping Him in the deer stand, you are still doing what you want to do and I can't see how you say it's for Him at that point.

Just my $.02


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## blindhog (Feb 26, 2005)

Hey Todd,  I haven't caught on to what you hope I could find.
I don't "support" ntrf, but agree with a lot of their views.  Not because I happened upon them on the net, but I already had established these patterns from the scriptures with the Holy Spirit leading me.

I don't know why everyone keeps bringing up about going hunting instead of church, or like my thinking is such as that.

Just the opposite,   I whole heartily agree with a christian assembly,  God wants us to do so.

It is the man-made methods and traditions we are taught that I have an issue with.  It has become a corporate structure too, much like the world businesses.
The building becomes a Nahushtan.

Could you meet with other christians regularly without an official building and still grow in spirit?

If you don't feel you could, then I remind you of the apostles, and even Jesus who traveled, and even preached on a hill side.

As for "easter",  when you find from the scriptures the truth that we have been taught a lie,  then you can no longer follow that lie.

The standard "easter" is a man-made thingy.

AND, God does not want us to copy, nor imitate the pagan rituals, traditions or customs.

Research where the eggs and the bunny originated.
It is PAGAN.

So to incorporate it in a worshipping of the Lord Jesus Christ is against His own will!


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