# Price haggle



## J.D. Squire (Jul 23, 2009)

IF a gunsmith takes twice as long as he quotes should you haggle with him on the price ??


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## AR-Trvlr (Jul 23, 2009)

Absolutely.  

You probably won't get anywhere, though.  He has you gun, you have an agreed-on price.  

Negotiating after the fact is always much harder.


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## NOYDB (Jul 23, 2009)

Maybe you should pay him twice as much?


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## J.D. Squire (Jul 23, 2009)

NOYDB said:


> Maybe you should pay him twice as much?



Are you him ?


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## hawgrider1200 (Jul 23, 2009)

Do u try to negotiate with the repair shop when they have ur car? It's the same thing. U pay what u agreed to when u dropped it off or they keep it till u do. Does honor mean nothing to u? Do u think it is honorable to try to back away from an agreement u made?


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## mattellis2 (Jul 23, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Do u try to negotiate with the repair shop when they have ur car? It's the same thing. U pay what u agreed to when u dropped it off or they keep it till u do. Does honor mean nothing to u? Do u think it is honorable to try to back away from an agreement u made?



by the same token, the 'smith agreed to return the repaired or modified firearm in a certain time frame.  he should be bound by the same terms of the agreement.  if he quoted you 2 weeks and keeps it for six months, i think you definitely have cause to at least ask about a reduction in the quoted fee.  (i'd also be looking for a new smith!)

i can see both sides.

-matt


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## redneckcamo (Jul 23, 2009)

J.D. Squire said:


> IF a gunsmith takes twice as long as he quotes should you haggle with him on the price ??



how long is twice as long ?


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## steelhorses (Jul 23, 2009)

If he's already finished the work you probably won't get anywhere.  If he hasn't even started then you might get a break or your gun back and a po'd smith.


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## Bill Mc (Jul 23, 2009)

Gunsmiths typically take longer than expected. Well, some of them do.


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## J.D. Squire (Jul 24, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Do u try to negotiate with the repair shop when they have ur car? It's the same thing. U pay what u agreed to when u dropped it off or they keep it till u do. Does honor mean nothing to u? Do u think it is honorable to try to back away from an agreement u made?


If a repair shop told me 6 weeks and at 12 weeks I still didnt have my car...... YES! When he and I shook hands and agreed it was not only for a price but a time frame as well. He broke that agreement not I. Btw it is hard to take a guy talking about honor seriously when he won't "honor" the english language by spelling "you"



mattellis2 said:


> by the same token, the 'smith agreed to return the repaired or modified firearm in a certain time frame.  i think you definitely have cause to at least ask about a reduction in the quoted fee.  (i'd also be looking for a new smith!)
> 
> i can see both sides.
> 
> -matt


My thoughts too!




Bill Mc said:


> Gunsmiths typically take longer than expected. Well, some of them do.



I don't understand why this is so widely accepted. They do their job everyday. They know how long a job will typically take. They know how many jobs they have. Why not give a real time estimate instead of constantly overpromising and underdelivering? Greed ? Fear of losing job to a competitor?


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## Patchpusher (Jul 24, 2009)

What type of firearm did you take to the gunsmith and what were you having done to it.


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## J.D. Squire (Jul 24, 2009)

Brand new Howa barreled action to be shortened to 20", recrowned, threaded for muzzle brake I provided.


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## Patchpusher (Jul 24, 2009)

I  suppose your smith has a lathe and doesn't have to send it out. Muzzle brakes are pretty good money makers. I move them to the front of the pile. But, if the are blued they have to wait until I get enough stuff polished out for a bluing run.


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## J.D. Squire (Jul 24, 2009)

Patchpusher said:


> I  suppose your smith has a lathe and doesn't have to send it out. Muzzle brakes are pretty good money makers. I move them to the front of the pile. But, if the are blued they have to wait until I get enough stuff polished out for a bluing run.



He has a lathe I saw it. I wish now I had just bought a four jaw, made a spider for the rear end on one of the the lathes at work and done it myself. By the way the brake was parkerized. Thanks for your input !


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## Mark K (Jul 24, 2009)

I'll have to remember this next time I go to the doctor and my appointment is at 1:00 and I don't get seen until 2:30.

If it were me I'ld just go get my gun and find a new gunsmith.


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## no clever name (Jul 24, 2009)

J.D. Squire said:


> If a repair shop told me 6 weeks and at 12 weeks I still didnt have my car...... YES! When he and I shook hands and agreed it was not only for a price but a time frame as well. He broke that agreement not I. Btw it is hard to take a guy talking about honor seriously when he won't "honor" the english language by spelling "you"
> :



Agreed on both counts



			
				Mark K said:
			
		

> I'll have to remember this next time I go to the doctor and my appointment is at 1:00 and I don't get seen until 2:30.



My Dr was running very late one day, I waited two hours then told the receptionist that I had appointments to get to and rescheduled the appt.  The Dr's billing service billed me for missing the appt.  Called and told them what happened and that the appt had been rescheduled but the person on the other end suffered from cronic stupidity and wouldn't take the charge off.  I talked to the Dr's office and they said they had told the billing service to take the charge off but it never happened.

So after a couple of months of this sitting on my statement I took one of my companies bills for consulting services and sent my Dr. a bill for me sitting in his waiting room for two hours (my company bills me out at $200/hour for consulting work).  

I got a call in a couple of days from the Dr. himself saying the charge had been removed and any amount billed to my insurance would be refunded.  He jokes with me now about how I make more sitting in his waiting room than he does seeing patients.


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## currahee raider (Jul 24, 2009)

*same problem*

I had a rifle built by a part time smith, here in my hometown.  He said that it would take awhile because it was deer season.  I agreed, but figured two months at the most.  I called and asked if he had started. He said no he had been busy.  I waited another month, same bull----. I finally waited another month or two and told him to just have my parts ready that I would pick everything up after work. When I got to his shop he was glass bedding the barreled action.
After this episode he would not accept my phone calls.
I had another world class smith redo and barrel a 1909 Argentine Mauser for me.  He kept the action 2 years! I finally told him that I would like to shoot the rifle before I died.  It still had to go to the stock maker and the bluer.
My point is, gunsmiths should have the same business principles as anyone else.  I was not asking for a set date, but 2 years for a barreled action is ridiculous. They Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- sure want their money in a hurry. I wondered what would have happened if I'd said, Just send me the rifle and I'll send you a check after deer season or maybe in 2 years!


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## Patchpusher (Jul 24, 2009)

This thread is not going to end well. Have some of you guys ever worked for your self and I do mean by yourself. No help, no one to answer the phone, no one to sweep the floor, no one to do anything but, yourself. You guys are blasting these gunsmiths for the time it takes to do your work. You are not their only customer. We try to keep everybody happy but, it never works out. You have $2000 worth of work done and nobody will come pickup. The parts you bought on your credit card you are now paying interest on because the guy won't come and pickup. It is funny how a firearm can sit in a closet for 20 years broken and the guy is all hacked off because I haven't fixed it in two weeks.


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## teufelhund (Jul 24, 2009)

*repair*

when i take a gun in for repair i will ask how long it will take. then i will give them extra time. i look at this way dio i want it fixed fast or do i want it fixed proper. never take it in when in a hury.


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## mattellis2 (Jul 24, 2009)

Patchpusher said:


> This thread is not going to end well. Have some of you guys ever worked for your self and I do mean by yourself. No help, no one to answer the phone, no one to sweep the floor, no one to do anything but, yourself. You guys are blasting these gunsmiths for the time it takes to do your work. You are not their only customer. We try to keep everybody happy but, it never works out. You have $2000 worth of work done and nobody will come pickup. The parts you bought on your credit card you are now paying interest on because the guy won't come and pickup. It is funny how a firearm can sit in a closet for 20 years broken and the guy is all hacked off because I haven't fixed it in two weeks.



no one is complaining about the length of time it takes for the work to be done.  i think the issue is a gunsmith will quote a certain time frame, and more often than not even have started the work by when that time has elapsed.  if you can't get to fitting a muzzle brake for another month, don't tell the guy it will be done in 2 weeks.

as for meeting deadlines, i've worked from 7:00 in the morning to 11:00 at night and weekends to turn out a set of structural drawings to meet an architect's deadline.  he is the one paying the bills...he is the one that gets to dictate the schedule (within reason).

-matt


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## Bowyer29 (Jul 24, 2009)

Patchpusher said:


> This thread is not going to end well. Have some of you guys ever worked for your self and I do mean by yourself. No help, no one to answer the phone, no one to sweep the floor, no one to do anything but, yourself. You guys are blasting these gunsmiths for the time it takes to do your work. You are not their only customer. We try to keep everybody happy but, it never works out. You have $2000 worth of work done and nobody will come pickup. The parts you bought on your credit card you are now paying interest on because the guy won't come and pickup. It is funny how a firearm can sit in a closet for 20 years broken and the guy is all hacked off because I haven't fixed it in two weeks.



All true, but part of owning any business. If a man says two weeks, it had better be ready or a phone call made BEFORE the due date explaining why it will not be ready. Most people are very reasonable and can understand things happen. Two years waiting for arifle to be built is just silly!


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## Patchpusher (Jul 24, 2009)

The problem is the guy you told on Friday that it will be three months and he starts calling on the following Monday and coming by every other day and hanging out for two to three hours at the time. So, you get him done before the guy you told two weeks. It starts going down hill from there.  You can't get anything done because of him calling or coming by all  the time. I had a guy call me the other day wanting to know if his rifle was done. He is out of the country and won't be home for  another month. But, he wants his rifle. He wants to send his daughter to pick it up. According to the ATF the person that drops it off is the person that has to pick it up. The only way the daughter can pick it up is to fill out a 4473 and a background check or a carry permit. Or, you have the local gunstore that direct every question that has the word GUN in it to you. Knowing good and well that the store has a bluebook of gun values and could of answered the guys question.


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## trckdrvr (Jul 25, 2009)

Everybody said RL Mathews was a good gunsmith...i will never know,he kept my gun for a whole year and never touched it.I finally went and picked it up.
He told me it would be a while before he could get around to reblueing it...but after a years wait ............i gave up.


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## J.D. Squire (Jul 25, 2009)

I called once when a month was up and he told me it was not ready. Then at two months I called (mon) he said "Oh yeah I'm putting it in the lathe right now call me wed". Called wed "uh no its not ready will be thurs". Didn't call thurs, I decided to leave work early fri and go get it so I could start bedding that eve etc. I called him fri at noon to tell him so "Him haw uh bah uh bab ba OK" He calls me at 3:30 as I was leaving work "Uh I was putting your barrel back on and I broke my action wrench it gonna be next week unless I can find someone to weld it today". At this point I said my piece but wasnt too ugly about it. I thought about it after hanging up, I work in a machine shop we have stick, mig and tig I can use all three fairly well I'll go get it and fix it for him. Call him back at 4:00 tell him so"Uuuhh I gotta leave at four we are goin to church"
I have learned some things about this fellers past dealings this week and I am beginning to believe them, we will see how it shakes out next week.



mattellis2 said:


> no one is complaining about the length of time it takes for the work to be done.  i think the issue is a gunsmith will quote a certain time frame, and more often than not even have started the work by when that time has elapsed.  if you can't get to fitting a muzzle brake for another month, don't tell the guy it will be done in 2 weeks.
> 
> -matt


This is my only problem, whether intentional or not I feel lied to.


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## EMC-GUN (Jul 25, 2009)

Had a "gunsmith" in Warner Robins work on a barrel for me once. It was an 870 barrel and I wanted it cut to 18, crowned and a bead drilled and tapped on. Well I got it back and the cut was rough and crooked, the barrel was 18.75 and the bead was crooked. I got every dime back I paid. I was told that the "gunsmith" wanted to keep me "safe" with the barrel length....Give me a break! I re-cut it and sweated a bead on it myself! I would say something if I were you.


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## luv2drum (Jul 29, 2009)

I guess I've been pretty lucky, the smiths I used got the job done with in a reasonable time period of what they "estimated" and the work was excellent.  I've never had a smith tell me the gun would definitely be done by such and such time.  I think communication is key and never assume that when they say it will take about 5 days that it is going to be done in exactly that amount of time.


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## sureshot375 (Jul 29, 2009)

trckdrvr said:


> Everybody said RL Mathews was a good gunsmith...i will never know,he kept my gun for a whole year and never touched it.I finally went and picked it up.
> He told me it would be a while before he could get around to reblueing it...but after a years wait ............i gave up.



He was a great gun smith, but he was slow on things.  I think he really just had more work than he could do.  The wait was always worth it IMO.  Even if sometimes it took several years.


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## Patchpusher (Aug 4, 2009)

Well, the two muzzle brakes I did in two weeks are done and are still here.


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## hoochfisher (Aug 5, 2009)

> If a repair shop told me 6 weeks and at 12 weeks I still didnt have my car...... YES!




this same answer applies to ANY thing you have serviced:



> i look at this way do i want it fixed fast or do i want it fixed proper



i learned this lesson the hard way this past year. 

02-07 my wifes car was hit in the rear quarter. back glass, well pretty much the whole rear of the car, had to be removed for the repair.  11-08 i find a leak in a bad seal in the window. lots of rust damage because i hadnt found it earlier. took it to the same shop for war. work, they say 8 days cause i tell them i need it done fast, it our only car at the time. i pick it up 8 days later. two days later it rains, the car is soaking wet. i take it back, they say two weeks. 2 weeks later i pick it up. a week later,it rains, car's wet. 

this time i take it back, honestly ticked, and they knew it. they tell me its hard to do that kind of work in such limited time. because something else allways needs fixing. and they get behind. 

i tell them thats understandable, but they should have just told me they need more time.

we agreed that they would give us a car to drive, on thier dime, and they kept as long as neccesery. that was the week after christmas. i did not get my car back until the last week of june. but, it was fixed, and fixed the right way.

i guess i'm trying to say, just call and ask why the extra time. dont get mad he took longer. just be glad your not getting a rushed, half butt job. just let him know you would be greatful to be informed of the reason for the extra time spent on making sure it's done right.


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## J.D. Squire (Aug 5, 2009)

Patchpusher said:


> Well, the two muzzle brakes I did in two weeks are done and are still here.


I hate to hear that I picked mine up the day he called and told me it was ready. Of course I am the type that wouldn't take it to someone if I didn't have the money to pay up front.


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## conifer (Aug 5, 2009)

J.D. Squire said:


> I hate to hear that I picked mine up the day he called and told me it was ready. Of course I am the type that wouldn't take it to someone if I didn't have the money to pay up front.



Just curious......do people stare at you???......


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## J.D. Squire (Aug 6, 2009)

conifer said:


> Just curious......do people stare at you???......




 No it's a quote from deadwood..........


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