# Watch who you lease land from!



## Papa Bear (Dec 8, 2006)

I have had a lease for 16 yrs in Putnam Co. and had some great forresters I have met and came to know thru the years. Property has switched hands many times from Kraft to Ga. Pacific and now Plum Creek. My problem came up last year when I leased another tract closer to home.(Not thru my Putnam Co. forrester). No one had the decency @ Plum Creek to tell me the property was going to be sold. So we have hunted all year with a land broker riding thru our property even on the weekends showing the land. Lease property is now a business for these timber companies and they have not treated me, one of there customers to fairly! If you lease land from Plum Creek, may want to look at Land Watch to see if your tract of land is FOR SALE! before you lease it, because they want tell you...  
Just had to let off some steam!


----------



## tyler1 (Dec 8, 2006)

Is the land watch you mentioned on their web site?


----------



## Papa Bear (Dec 8, 2006)

No it is not on their web-site. They are land brokers for Plum Creek. The web-site I mentioned is  Landwatch.com. All tracts that are in Elbert Co.for sale are Plum Creek properties, not sure about any other counties.


----------



## Just 1 More (Dec 8, 2006)

Plumb Creek has to be the worst company to lease from


----------



## Twenty five ought six (Dec 8, 2006)

I hear what you are saying.  The current administration at Plum Creek sure has a different business philosophy from Ga. Pacific.


----------



## Just 1 More (Dec 8, 2006)

Very few, if any, timber companies take the hunter in to consideration, we are nothing more than cash flow for them. Our wishes and concerns will never be theirs. I understand and accept that it is a timber operation first and foremost..


----------



## doenightmare (Dec 8, 2006)

Twenty five ought six said:


> I hear what you are saying. The current administration at Plum Creek sure has a different business philosophy from Ga. Pacific.


 
I thought Plum Creek was formed by Ga Pacific for the purpose of selling land?


----------



## Twenty five ought six (Dec 8, 2006)

No.  Ga. Pacific spun off its timber lands to a company it formed creatively named "The Timber Co.".  The Timber Co. then sold all of its timber lands in Ga. (and maybe the S.E.) to Plum Creek (actually I think the Timber Co. may have merged with Plum Creek, I forget the technical details), which was an entirely separate company, headquartered in Washington state (or somewhere's out yonder).

Plum Creek is much more a land management company than a timber company.  For ex. it just purchased a tract of land in Oconee County for the express purpose of developing the land for residential use.

I suppose they are not bad people, but they certainly don't go out of their way to curry favor with their customers.  You should see the "drop dead" letter that accompanies their lease renewal notice.


----------



## doenightmare (Dec 8, 2006)

Twenty five ought six said:


> No. Ga. Pacific spun off its timber lands to a company it formed creatively named "The Timber Co.". The Timber Co. then sold all of its timber lands in Ga. (and maybe the S.E.) to Plum Creek (actually I think the Timber Co. may have merged with Plum Creek, I forget the technical details), which was an entirely separate company, headquartered in Washington state (or somewhere's out yonder).
> 
> Plum Creek is much more a land management company than a timber company. For ex. it just purchased a tract of land in Oconee County for the express purpose of developing the land for residential use.
> 
> I suppose they are not bad people, but they certainly don't go out of their way to curry favor with their customers. You should see the "drop dead" letter that accompanies their lease renewal notice.


 
Thanks for the info 25-0-6.


----------



## tyler1 (Dec 8, 2006)

Papa Bear said:


> No it is not on their web-site. They are land brokers for Plum Creek. The web-site I mentioned is  Landwatch.com. All tracts that are in Elbert Co.for sale are Plum Creek properties, not sure about any other counties.


Thanks.  I will have a look as we lease from them as well.


----------



## Dupree (Dec 8, 2006)

I'm about to graduate with a forestry degree and my professor told us that Plum Creek was started by GA Pacific just for tax purposes. The way that they were being taxed on the timber they cut and land that they sold changed if they started a new company. (i'm not good with business and legal stuff.) So they get more profit because they dont have to pay as much to Uncle Sam.


----------



## Twenty five ought six (Dec 8, 2006)

> my professor told us that Plum Creek was started by GA Pacific just for tax purposes.



Well,  I hope he is a forestry professor, and not in the business school, because this is simply not true.  Not that it makes a lot of difference, I just can't abide this kind of inaccuracy.

Plum Creek is a Real Estate Investment Trust, which gives it certain tax advantages in the buying and selling of land, but it has never had any connection with Ga. Pacific.

Copy the history of Plum Creek and give it to your professor, with a little note that you cannot abide ignorance in a supposedly learned person, and you consider it an honor to be able to enlighten a person of his exalted position and advanced education.



> Geographically speaking, Plum Creek is a small stream in Minnesota. In the 1930s, lumberman D.C. Dunham had a business named D.C. Dunham Lumber Company located about 70 miles from Plum Creek in Bemidji, Minnesota. In 1945, Dunham moved his lumber company to Columbia Falls, Montana and renamed it Plum Creek. Dunham died in 1966 and his family later sold the business to Northern Pacific Railroad, which became part of Burlington Northern (BN). In 1987, BN spun off its non-railroad holdings, including the Plum Creek mills and timberlands, into a holding company called Burlington Resources.
> 
> Plum Creek Timber Company, L.P., a publicly traded partnership (MLP), was established in 1989 and purchased the timberlands and mills from Burlington Resources. Today, Plum Creek, based in Seattle, Washington, is the largest private landowner in the United States with more than 8 million acres. Plum Creek is organized as a REIT in managing its timberlands. It also conducts various business activities through its taxable REIT subsidiaries (TRS). The company has been listed on the New York Stock Exchange since 1989.


----------



## caught (Dec 8, 2006)

Copy the history of Plum Creek and give it to your professor, with a little note that you cannot abide ignorance in a supposedly learned person, and you consider it an honor to be able to enlighten a person of his exalted position and advanced education.[/QUOTE]

yea thats sounds like a good way to fail the class.


----------



## westcobbdog (Dec 8, 2006)

I have dealt with Ben Shwanda at Plum Creek and basically ALL their land in Ga is for sale-- for retail prices--all their leases can be purchsed right out from under the lessee if the $$ is right so if you lease from them beware!


----------



## bull0ne (Dec 8, 2006)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Well,  I hope he is a forestry professor, and not in the business school, because this is simply not true.  Not that it makes a lot of difference, I just can't abide this kind of inaccuracy.
> 
> Plum Creek is a Real Estate Investment Trust, which gives it certain tax advantages in the buying and selling of land, but it has never had any connection with Ga. Pacific.
> 
> Copy the history of Plum Creek and give it to your professor, with a little note that you cannot abide ignorance in a supposedly learned person, and you consider it an honor to be able to enlighten a person of his exalted position and advanced education.



A little more info about the company.

http://www.gp.com/center/news/news.asp?NewsID=980


----------



## SWAMPFOX (Dec 8, 2006)

The current issue of Outdoor Life has some interesting info on Plum Creek being a REIT.


----------



## Dupree (Dec 9, 2006)

after reading the link that bullone gave, I was incorrect about what i said. I just didnt remember all the details from what my teacher said. It wasnt that gp started plum creek, just that they merged for tax purposes, or something to that extent. My professor wasnt wrong, I just misquoted him.


----------



## Twenty five ought six (Dec 10, 2006)

> My professor wasnt wrong, I just misquoted him.



Good Save.


----------



## Dupree (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm glad bullone gave the link, so I could get my memory back on track.


----------

