# Redundant knowledge!!!



## Oak-flat Hunter (Jan 14, 2011)

If Adam and Eve were placed in the garden with out knowledge. Why did God get so mad at them.When they ate the apple.After all if You don't have the knowledge too make a good decision,Then it's understandable that Your going too fail hummhhh.....Or was it designed for them too fail..It was only after they ate is when they realized they did something wrong..hummhh!! Why didn't God just hide the tree...


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 14, 2011)

laskerknight said:


> If Adam and Eve were placed in the garden with out knowledge. Why did God get so mad at them.When they ate the apple.After all if You don't have the knowledge too make a good decision,Then it's understandable that Your going too fail hummhhh.....Or was it designed for them too fail..It was only after they ate is when they realized they did something wrong..hummhh!! Why didn't God just hide the tree...




It's a made up story used to illustrate how people are naturally bad.  There is no such thing as a talking serpent.


----------



## VisionCasting (Jan 14, 2011)

laskerknight said:


> If Adam and Eve were placed in the garden with out knowledge. Why did God get so mad at them.When they ate the apple.After all if You don't have the knowledge too make a good decision,Then it's understandable that Your going too fail hummhhh.....Or was it designed for them too fail..It was only after they ate is when they realized they did something wrong..hummhh!! Why didn't God just hide the tree...



Adam was clearly instructed.

Genesis 2:16&17 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” 



laskerknight said:


> Why didn't God just hide the tree...



Freewill.  Choice is a necessary component.


----------



## Achilles Return (Jan 14, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Adam was clearly instructed.
> 
> Genesis 2:16&17 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
> 
> ...



You've misunderstood his objection.

If they did not have the "knowledge of good and evil" before they ate from the fruit of the tree, then had no possible faculty for understanding whether or not obedience to god was a "good" action and listening to the temptation of satan was a "bad" action. It's akin to giving a toddler a loaded gun and telling him not to shoot anyone before he knows what the word "shoot" means. Your freewill means nothing, and doesn't come _close_ to being a passable excuse in this objection.

It's a *massive* logical hole in the judeo-christian creation myth.


----------



## VisionCasting (Jan 14, 2011)

Achilles Return said:


> You've misunderstood his objection.



No, I did not misunderstand his objection.

It's not necessary that they understood the concepts or good and evil to ascertain whether or not obedience to God was beneficial or not.   That's like saying you need to understand Bernoulli's Principle before you fly on a Delta jet.


----------



## crbrumbelow (Jan 14, 2011)

They were told not to take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Its like you telling your child not to touch something hot.  YOU know why but until the child does it they just know that they were told not to and you get a little angry and worried about them disobeying you.  

No hole.


----------



## crbrumbelow (Jan 14, 2011)

In the same note all who have heard the gospel have been TOLD to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.  The consequences for not doing so are known because of the temptation and partaking of the fruit of that tree.  Its eternity either way.  A very long time to suffer the flames of the lake of fire.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Jan 14, 2011)

Food for thought: We don't know how long the time span was from when God said don't eat until they actually did. Let's just say for example, that they cared very little for that tree for several years, paying it no attention. Simply because God said don't, they obeyed, trusting God, for whatever reason. Never giving it much thought. The problem arises of how the Devil makes it sound mysterious. He tempts them by using his own desires to appeal to them. Coveting God's glory. Instead of wanting to humbly submit to him all glory, he wanted that glory for himself. To be like God. I know it sounds simplistic, but when we say "glory to God", it in essence is saying; not to man, but to God.


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 14, 2011)

crbrumbelow said:


> In the same note all who have heard the gospel have been TOLD to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.  The consequences for not doing so are known because of the temptation and partaking of the fruit of that tree.  Its eternity either way.  A very long time to suffer the flames of the lake of fire.



The consequences are known how?  Because it says so in the book that has a talking serpent?


----------



## stringmusic (Jan 15, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> The consequences are known how?  Because it says so in the book that has a talking serpent?



In this scenario ambush, the Bible is assumed.


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 15, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> In this scenario ambush, the Bible is assumed.



Agreed.  

To the OP,

God can do anything.  He doesn't play by our rules.  Quit trying to have it make sense.  His ways are not our ways.  You can't understand Biblical matters using logic.  

I think that covers it.


----------



## crbrumbelow (Jan 15, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> The consequences are known how?  Because it says so in the book that has a talking serpent?



Absolutely!


----------



## stringmusic (Jan 15, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> > God can do anything.
> 
> 
> right
> ...


----------



## Oak-flat Hunter (Jan 16, 2011)

Hey can God make a rock so big that.He can't move it??


----------



## VisionCasting (Jan 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Because it says so in the book that has a talking serpent?



You quite often refer to this talking donkey (or talking donkey,burning bush, living in a fish for 3 days, etc...) in an effort to discredit the Bible. 

While I agree it's quite odd/spectacular, it's not the most audiceous claim in the Bible.  

Even if it could be proved or disproved, it would not eliminate (nor affirm) the possibility of a benevolent God or that Christ is, in fact, God.

Would it not be more logical for you to attack the most audacious claim of all?  That Christ was raised from the dead?

Just sayin'. Maybe you should investigate that claim first.


----------



## atlashunter (Jan 16, 2011)

Vision even if Christ was raised from the dead it wouldn't prove he was god.


----------



## atlashunter (Jan 16, 2011)

The question is, what is more likely to be true? That the miracle claims of the bible really happened or that they are ancient myths?


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 16, 2011)

laskerknight said:


> If Adam and Eve were placed in the garden with out knowledge. Why did God get so mad at them.When they ate the apple.After all if You don't have the knowledge too make a good decision,Then it's understandable that Your going too fail hummhhh.....Or was it designed for them too fail..It was only after they ate is when they realized they did something wrong..hummhh!! Why didn't God just hide the tree...


 
It was about giving us the choice to do right or wrong. To worship him or not. To learn how to use propper grammar and punctuation or not. It's all about choices.


----------



## atlashunter (Jan 16, 2011)

What I'd like to know about the story is how punishing all of humanity for the actions of two people would be justified? That's not justice it's a cruel joke. You're born guilty for the sins of those who came before you but your debt is already paid for any evil you might do by way of a human sacrifice. This is moral?


----------



## apoint (Jan 16, 2011)

Not really,  Adam and Eve were just the first sinners. You and I have sinned a lot worse.  So if it wasn't Adam and Eve as first sinners it would have been their children, and I think you know what happened with Cain & able. From the beginning it was a free choice to choose God and live righteously. We all failed. The redundancy is our fault, we keep sinning.


----------



## atlashunter (Jan 16, 2011)

Actually if every man and woman was given the same opportunity as Adam and Eve you could potentially live forever until you sinned. According to the bible, death was brought into the world for their sin, not just for them but for all of humanity. The punishment meted out to them didn't apply only to them but to all of their descendants as well. That isn't justice. Also if you're going to say we are created with a sinful nature it raises the question, why did God create us with that nature and why go through the motions with the garden of Eden when you already know what the outcome is going to be?


----------



## ambush80 (Jan 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Actually if every man and woman was given the same opportunity as Adam and Eve you could potentially live forever until you sinned. According to the bible, death was brought into the world for their sin, not just for them but for all of humanity. The punishment meted out to them didn't apply only to them but to all of their descendants as well. That isn't justice. Also if you're going to say we are created with a sinful nature it raises the question, why did God create us with that nature and why go through the motions with the garden of Eden when you already know what the outcome is going to be?



It's a miracle.


----------



## VisionCasting (Jan 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> The question is, what is more likely to be true? That the miracle claims of the bible really happened or that they are ancient myths?



That which is more likely is not necessarily that which is true.


----------



## drippin' rock (Jan 20, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> The question is, what is more likely to be true? That the miracle claims of the bible really happened or that they are ancient myths?



I'll take ancient myths for $1000, Pat.


----------

