# Dark Vs. Light



## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

I have journeyed through the darkness, to find light residing at its end. Though my travels perilous, I knew it would conclude with peace. All I had to pursue, was resilience against the dark. For I knew it could take me, if I ever dropped my guard. But I didn't, I knew the light would come, it would bring me to heighten sense of life, and give me purpose.

 Faith is what is was, a distraction from a reality that was not true.  Visions all lies, but my eyes were victims, as my heart and mind were not. The darkness is so foolish it tries to make you believe despair.  Oh yes it is there painted like a portrait of a midnight, with no stars and no moon.  Black, cold, and void of any spark that can give sight.

But it is a ruse, a false, simply a lie, to what truth has always been.  What is an illusion of sight,the truth can be known by the heart, trusted by the mind and understood by the spirit.  Like a midnight cloaked by the shadows of the dark, you must feel the light your mind knows is there. The darkness can only mask it, hide it from your sight, it cannot vanquish its existence.  Like the blackest night, the light is always there. The stars that pierce the skies can only be hidden, not conquered. 

But there is something in my journey that I discovered about the dark.  Darks relationship to its adversary is not on equal ground.  Light can always vanquish darkness, banish it with illumination.   It can conquer all that that is bleak and cold, and void darkness of its power. 

That is why sight is of such little importance.  What you see is always not be accepted, especially if its darkness's gift of despair.  Remember the light is always there. Though you might not see it, you must know it and trust that the dark cannot contain it.   When the  light comes it will vanquish all that is dark.


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## SarahFair (May 11, 2010)

What do you do when the memory of darkness haunts you, even if you are in the light?
What do you do with the horrible guilt and emotions from darker days?
What do you do when all is forgiven by others and God but not yourself?


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## Lowjack (May 11, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> What do you do when the memory of darkness haunts you, even if you are in the light?
> What do you do with the horrible guilt and emotions from darker days?
> What do you do when all is forgiven by others and God but not yourself?



Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
1 Cor 5


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> What do you do when the memory of darkness haunts you, even if you are in the light?
> What do you do with the horrible guilt and emotions from darker days?
> What do you do when all is forgiven by others and God but not yourself?



If you are in the light than the dark can only show in passing, like a shadow it can be vanquished by illumination.  Acknowledge it, than focus on what brings you light and know the shadow is no longer. 

Guilt and emotions are like festering sores, time and medicine (light), are the only cure. 

All has not forgiven then, all would include ones self.  To forgive is to make right, you have not done the thing that will make right to you. Find that and your light will truely come.


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## Huntinfool (May 11, 2010)

So.....time and medicine are light?  Anything else?


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> So.....time and medicine are light?  Anything else?



Time heals more than any medicine, and in this case medicine and light are metaphors.  The meaning is personal to both writer and reader.  What else would you like?


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## Huntinfool (May 11, 2010)

Is there room for God?


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Read and interpret for yourself that is for you to decide not me.


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## jason4445 (May 11, 2010)

No matter how fast light is - darkness always gets there first.


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## Huntinfool (May 11, 2010)

I have to say, this is the most cryptic thread I've seen in a long time.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> I have to say, this is the most cryptic thread I've seen in a long time.



Enlighten me, why do you feel it is cryptic? Can you find no meaning? Why?


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## Huntinfool (May 11, 2010)

What was the light you found residing at the end?  Faith?


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## thedeacon (May 11, 2010)

I find the thread facinating and interesting. 

I like it.

There are many interpretations of light and darkness, vision (sight) and understanding. Love and Hate.

Good!! At least it is thought provoking.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Define faith.


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## Huntinfool (May 11, 2010)

Oh good grief.....


You said, "Faith is what is was"


This is why I said this thread was cryptic.  Lots of questions answered with questions.


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## HBC4570 (May 11, 2010)

The search for light is always a laudable undertaking.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> What was the light you found residing at the end?  Faith?



Light is a metaphor, agian it has different meaning both to the writer and the reader.  It was written in way that can be applied universally and not narrowly interpreted. My sole intention was for the readers themselves to give life to these words.


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## rjcruiser (May 11, 2010)

gtparts said:


> "Burble burble, glu-lock glu-lock, monk-monk, monk-monk, ungle-bay ungle-bay, too-shu too-shu."




I think I got as much out of that as the first thread in this post


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

gtparts said:


> "A wink is as good as a nod, to a blind horse."
> 
> Without definition, metaphorical psycho-babble must remain, by nature, ambiguously worthless.
> 
> ...



Wow! That was outwardly sharp. Dont't care to play don't join the discussion.  Sounds fairly the way you accuse others of sounding.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

It is to be applied to each his own. You read it take your own meaing to the words and apply them. Sara Fair and Deacon got that, how come you can not?


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## gtparts (May 11, 2010)

Guess I'll just bow out of this thread. I can't find anything of a spiritual nature to study, discuss, or debate.

Perhaps woody's needs a Poetry and Prose Forum.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

_In many ways, sarcasm, belittlement, and mockery have characterized much of Dio's posts (pull up and read a half dozen or so). If he has earned the reputation, it is probably because of attitude expressed, not the subject matter discussed. _

Those are your own words GT. Spirituality is not universally applied.  Much like this piece it has different meaning to different people, even of the same religion.  I wrote this for each individual to have there own meaning, for me it is spiritual.


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## Lowjack (May 11, 2010)

Light is Life, As In The primordial Creation God created the life within the light.
" And God said let their be light , and light became" and God separated the dark and the light from each other, as darkness became death and light became life. Midrash}

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 
 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it. 

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.* 

 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 

 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 

So Christ in the Flesh is the light.*


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## earl (May 11, 2010)

Bishop , I am impressed. There is a great deal of spirituality in what or how I read it.
Those who can not see will remain blind.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> So Christ in the Flesh is the light.



That is what light in this means to you. I hope more can find their own light to keep the dark at bay. I know I have.


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## TheBishop (May 11, 2010)

earl said:


> Bishop , I am impressed. There is a great deal of spirituality in what or how I read it.
> Those who can not see will remain blind.



Thank you, and I hope you find your own meaning in my words.


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## christianhunter (May 11, 2010)

Satan comes as an angel of Light,in him is only darkness.

JESUS Is THE LIGHT of THE World,every knee will bend,and tongue confess,that JESUS CHRIST is LORD.


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## formula1 (May 11, 2010)

*Re:*

Jesus Christ is most certainly my light and my salvation.  The one thing that light and darkness have in common is they both are subject to the Living God.  Here's some more scriptures for you:

John 8:12
 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

John 12:46
I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.


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## Lowjack (May 11, 2010)

formula1 said:


> Jesus Christ is most certainly my light and my salvation.  The one thing that light and darkness have in common is they both are subject to the Living God.  Here's some more scriptures for you:
> 
> John 8:12
> Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
> ...



Amen !


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## ronpasley (May 12, 2010)

formula1 said:


> jesus christ is most certainly my light and my salvation.  The one thing that light and darkness have in common is they both are subject to the living god.  Here's some more scriptures for you:
> 
> John 8:12
> again jesus spoke to them, saying, "i am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
> ...



x2 amen


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## ronpasley (May 12, 2010)

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in he!!.


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in he!!.




And there is the darkness.


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

So...everyone must find his or her own "light"?

I'm with GT and RJ.  Gurble on y'all. Earl, of all things that have been posted around here, THIS is what you find profound?


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## gtparts (May 12, 2010)

" Any way the wind blows,

   doesn't really matter......

    to me."



- the late Freddy Mercury of _Queen_ -


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## rjcruiser (May 12, 2010)

gtparts said:


> " Any way the wind blows,
> 
> doesn't really matter......
> 
> ...



easy come...easy go...


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## Dominic (May 12, 2010)

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## TheBishop (May 12, 2010)

Its funny. All I did is write a piece using metaphors. A piece that has deep spiritual meaning to me, and only those that cannot accept individual spirituality, call it garble. I'm sorry only your peice of creative writing is correct and all others are too elusive for your mind to decipher and define.

I actually wrote this piece some time ago.  Like all my works, it kinda just flows from me until it stops.  Usually inspired by something, the time just has to hit me right.  Let me define some terms for those whos singular world thinking constricts their ability to see this peices general application.

darkness= anything bad, evil, or just makes someone feel down.
Light= the opposite of darkness 

Is that to general? Writing does not have to have literal meaning, especially creative writing.


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

> only those that *cannot* accept individual spirituality, call it garble.



Not "cannot", will not is more like it.  Not because I am too unenlightened to understand either.  

Individual spirituality (as you call it) is nothing more than atheism (at worst) or agnosticism (at best) in a thinly veiled disguise IMO.

I suppose that's why I don't get this.  If "light" is the opposite of darkness, and "darkness" is something that makes me feel down...then can a bowl of icecream be considered light?  That certainly makes me feel better sometimes.


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## rjcruiser (May 12, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> Its funny. All I did is write a piece using metaphors. A piece that has deep spiritual meaning to me, and only those that cannot accept individual spirituality, call it garble. I'm sorry only your peice of creative writing is correct and all others are too elusive for your mind to decipher and define.
> 
> I actually wrote this piece some time ago.  Like all my works, it kinda just flows from me until it stops.  Usually inspired by something, the time just has to hit me right.  Let me define some terms for those whos singular world thinking constricts their ability to see this peices general application.
> 
> ...





Huntinfool said:


> Not "cannot", will not is more like it.  Not because I am too unenlightened to understand either.
> 
> Individual spirituality (as you call it) is nothing more than atheism (at worst) or agnosticism (at best) in a thinly veiled disguise IMO.
> 
> I suppose that's why I don't get this.  If "light" is the opposite of darkness, and "darkness" is something that makes me feel down...then can a bowl of icecream be considered light?  That certainly makes me feel better sometimes.




I agree HF.  The post is a writing that focuses on self and is an "everyone is right" type thought.  Something our current society has done very well in instilling in our minds.

Not everyone can be right.  Everything does not revolve around "me."  Those are two things that people should learn at a young age.  It would make their life much easier.


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## tell sackett (May 12, 2010)

Human pride says "I don't need God, I can create or find my own light." That is why it heads the list of the things that are an abomination to Him, it seperates us from Him.


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

Didn't say profound. It does give me pause to think and reflect. I believe that was the point of the OP. It's funny that you can't find the spirituality in the words. I bet you find something spiritual in being in the woodsor on the lake at daybreak. Just like a bunch of heathens .


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## rjcruiser (May 12, 2010)

earl said:


> I bet you find something spiritual in being in the woodsor on the lake at daybreak. Just like a bunch of heathens .



Spiritual?  No.  But the beauty does point to the Creator.  Reminds me of Psalm 8 everytime.

Oh LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth.


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

earl said:


> Didn't say profound. It does give me pause to think and reflect. I believe that was the point of the OP. It's funny that you can't find the spirituality in the words. I bet you find something spiritual in being in the woodsor on the lake at daybreak. Just like a bunch of heathens .



I find something spiritual.  I do not find anything real.  The reason I find something spiritual about being in the woods is I'm in the middle of creation I suppose.  It all points to THE light.  

I feel closer to my creator there, but I would not consider it "light"....whatever that means.


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## 12ptsteve (May 12, 2010)

jesus said he is the truth ,the way and the LIGHT ,no one enters into the father except through him...


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

Well ,I feel for you. Must be hard to only be able to see through your religion. Kind of like wearing filters.
The Catholics ,by far , have some of the most beautiful cathederals I have ever seen. I'm not Catholic but I can appreciate the beauty and peace they hold. Same with a mosque . I don't have to agree with the religion to be able to appreciate that both are spiritual places. I suppose as a non Catholic or Muslim all you can see is that they are wrong because they don't believe what you do .


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## gtparts (May 12, 2010)

There is very little to distinguish aestheticism from secular humanism.... and neither will get anyone into heaven.


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

Is getting into heaven the whole point ? Or perhaps it's to make yourself better and in  turn mankind.


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## TheBishop (May 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Not "cannot", will not is more like it.  Not because I am too unenlightened to understand either.
> 
> Individual spirituality (as you call it) is nothing more than atheism (at worst) or agnosticism (at best) in a thinly veiled disguise IMO.
> 
> I suppose that's why I don't get this.  If "light" is the opposite of darkness, and "darkness" is something that makes me feel down...then can a bowl of icecream be considered light?  That certainly makes me feel better sometimes.



As a free man you have that choice, to be this way. As a free man I have a choice to reject your opinions and form my own. 

But you are starting to get the original intent of this thread.  Yes Icecream can be light if you define it and use it in context. I chose not to define light or dark in specific context but let the reader do that. It is more fun that way.


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

earl said:


> Well ,I feel for you. Must be hard to only be able to see through your religion. Kind of like wearing filters.
> The Catholics ,by far , have some of the most beautiful cathederals I have ever seen. I'm not Catholic but I can appreciate the beauty and peace they hold. Same with a mosque . I don't have to agree with the religion to be able to appreciate that both are spiritual places. I suppose as a non Catholic or Muslim all you can see is that they are wrong because they don't believe what you do .



How do you associate appreciation of asthetic beauty with appreciation of any kind of religion?

Of course I can look at a mosque and see how beautiful the building is.  Of course that are some unbelievable cathedrals in this world.

Heck, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is something to behold when you hear them live.

Do I have to accept their religious beliefs to appreciate those things?

This thread is about light and dark.  "something bad" and "something that makes you feel good".


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

> Yes Icecream can be light if you define it and use it in context.




I have no words.....not even one.  I suppose I appreciate the honesty?


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## rjcruiser (May 12, 2010)

earl said:


> Well ,I feel for you. Must be hard to only be able to see through your religion. Kind of like wearing filters.
> The Catholics ,by far , have some of the most beautiful cathederals I have ever seen. I'm not Catholic but I can appreciate the beauty and peace they hold. Same with a mosque . I don't have to agree with the religion to be able to appreciate that both are spiritual places. I suppose as a non Catholic or Muslim all you can see is that they are wrong because they don't believe what you do .



Like HF, I can enjoy their architectual beauty...like the Taj Mahal...but you are correct, in the back of my mind, I still tell myself it is all for naught. Just like any other idol.

oh..btw, I like my "filter."  Allows me to see the world for what it is.



earl said:


> Is getting into heaven the whole point ? Or perhaps it's to make yourself better and in  turn mankind.



Neither.  The whole point is to bring God glory.



TheBishop said:


> It is more fun that way.



More fun or more satisfying?


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## gtparts (May 12, 2010)

earl said:


> Is getting into heaven the whole point ? Or perhaps it's to make yourself better and in  turn mankind.




I can grasp, at least superficially, the concept of self-improvement for ones own sake. (to the theme song of _The Jeffersons_.... "I'm moving on up,...to the Eastside..... ")

Self-serving, but I understand it. 

What makes no sense to me is the long term prospects: Why bother, if the end result is that you become non-sentient, worm bait?

The guy with 2 PhDs and spoke 5 languages is just as dead as the guy who could not spell his own name.

Furthermore, why would you care about the general condition of mankind, if their end is no different from yours? Do incremental gains for others really make a difference if they too will die and be gone? If that's all I believed there was to life, I'd cast my lot with the "Eat, Drink, and be Merry Crowd".

Truthfully, if it was just about getting to heaven, it would still make more sense than "pulling myself up by the bootstraps" just to have the undertaker wind up with my boots.

Many have given personal testimony to life being much more than getting to heaven. In fact, getting to heaven is the least part of Christianity, once one comes to understand his or her purpose and calling. All that is done in obedience to God is just recognition of who He is and what He is rightfully due. 

Bottom line: If there were no heaven, no after-life, it would still be appropriate to commit all glory and honor to Him. He is the only one worthy of our worship.


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## Huntinfool (May 12, 2010)

> If that's all I believed there was to life, I'd cast my lot with the "Eat, Drink, and be Merry Crowd".



You and me both brotha.  Enjoy it while it lasts.


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## Tim L (May 12, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> If you are in the light than the dark can only show in passing, like a shadow it can be vanquished by illumination.  Acknowledge it, than focus on what brings you light and know the shadow is no longer.
> 
> Guilt and emotions are like festering sores, time and medicine (light), are the only cure.
> 
> All has not forgiven then, all would include ones self.  To forgive is to make right, you have not done the thing that will make right to you. Find that and your light will truely come.





I just noticed this thread; I agree time is a great healer up to a point; things that may seem unbearable at the moment are less so one, five, ten, 15 years after the event....But I say up to a point because time still just scabs over a wound; it's still there deep down and becomes part of who and what you are about.....Of course if your prone to the old "seniors" disease and just flat forget about things altogether; well there is something to be said for that...But it's usually the short term that goes first; even a senile old granny can tell you the games she played with her brothers and sisters as a child..

As for physical light; besides the natural positive impact that light has on all (well most, there is life in caves and underground streams that is never exposed to light) living things in producing energy, what do you mean???


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

I failed to get through on that. Can you see the spirituality of those places ,even while not believing in the faith they represent. What you see as dark ,nonspiritual, others may see as light ,spiritual. Again ,I apologize for not being able to verbalize very well.


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## earl (May 12, 2010)

GT , you know there are a lot of folks who have made great contibutions to mankind without being Christian. I think you are above those type of questions.


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## ambush80 (May 12, 2010)

Beautiful poem, Bro.   I don't know why people go around flogging themselves emotionally or perhaps literally because they feel like unworthy scum instead of just enjoying the simple pleasure of a positive expression.  

I've thought that there should be a place for outdoor themed poetry or art here at Woody's.


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## Israel (May 13, 2010)

gtparts said:


> Many have given personal testimony to life being much more than getting to heaven. In fact, getting to heaven is the least part of Christianity, once one comes to understand his or her purpose and calling. All that is done in obedience to God is just recognition of who He is and what He is rightfully due.
> 
> Bottom line: If there were no heaven, no after-life, it would still be appropriate to commit all glory and honor to Him. He is the only one worthy of our worship.




Yes.

One can never explain the mystery of deliverance from "oneself"... for the hearer, if unbelieving, simply sees another "self" telling him what to do. And to him, one self is just another self.
When a man is awakened to whom is speaking to him through Christ...not just "another self"...and hears the Lord's words he comes out of himself...into communion with God there...not "in himself" but in Christ.
That is the mystery...God draws us out of Adam...brings us into Christ, and there we find the blessed relief and salvation of being free of that old, wretched, diminishing, futile, dying, condemned self.
Taste and see.

It is not a matter of "someday getting to heaven"...but either accepting or rejecting the invitation, there, now.

Believers don't worship God in hope of reward...they worship God because they have been translated to a place where that's the only thing they see, the only reasonable thing to do.


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## gtparts (May 13, 2010)

earl said:


> GT , you know there are a lot of folks who have made great contibutions to mankind without being Christian. I think you are above those type of questions.



I recognize the contributions that ease our suffering, allow us to reduce the burdens of everyday life, brings us additional time to spend with family and friends. And, no , one does not have to be Christian to contribute or benefit.

The Christian merely recognizes that all of this is from God. The Christian also knows that such things are only temporal in character, a reflection of the needs of this world only. 

If there were no illness, no injury..... there would be no need of doctors, nurses, pharmacists, medicine, surgical tools, etc.

If there were no droughts, no floods, no plant disease or insect hoards swarming the crops.....there would be no shortage of food.

And if we were to succeed in eliminating all that, is it to sit around and do what only pleases us? No challenges? No risks?

Now, I would ask again.

"Why bother, if the end result is that you become non-sentient, worm bait?"

Why the struggle ? For the noble cause of helping others? Perhaps, if one has already attended to the needs and desires of himself and family. Or maybe, the "others" are unintentional beneficiaries of taking care of "numero uno".

 And after all that, you still end up a lifeless corpse?
What's the point? 

When it is all said and done, it is all meaningless without God. 

Apart from Him, we are all cosmic accidents, marking time till we terminate. Without Him, we are all just a waste of oxygen!


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## earl (May 13, 2010)

Supposedly all the ''wrongs'' you mention will be taken care of when you go to heaven. Then what ? You sit around and praise God . Forever. Tnat's not much betterthan being fertilizer. You lose your ''self'' one way or the other.


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## gtparts (May 13, 2010)

earl said:


> Supposedly all the ''wrongs'' you mention will be taken care of when you go to heaven. Then what ? You sit around and praise God . Forever. Tnat's not much betterthan being fertilizer. You lose your ''self'' one way or the other.



What is so important about self? 

 Matthew 10:39
 Matthew 16:25
 Mark 8:35
 Luke 9:24

Here is Mark 8:35:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."



So, you seem to have distilled it down to its essence, except that God has revealed that no one takes an "eternal celestial dirt nap". 

All will be raised to give account for whether they lived their life by faith in Jesus or not. 

earl, the Truth does not depend on our ability to understand or agree with it.


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## earl (May 13, 2010)

''the Truth does not depend on our ability to understand or agree with it.''

The truth depends on what our perception or belief of the truth is . It would appear from your reference to how we live our lives, that fear of retribution is a big part of Christianity .  

''What is so important about self?''
From your post self preservation seems to be of paramount importance to some. Preserve yourself beyond death by any means . I know for a fact that I have this life as long as I breath and I will live it like it is the only one I will get .


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## gtparts (May 13, 2010)

earl said:


> ''the Truth does not depend on our ability to understand or agree with it.''
> 
> The truth depends on what our perception or belief of the truth is . It would appear from your reference to how we live our lives, that fear of retribution is a big part of Christianity .
> 
> ...



Here is Mark 8:35:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."





earl said:


> I know for a fact that I have this life as long as I breath and I will live it like it is the only one I will get .



I believe you do...and will. You are greatly to be pitied.

I know for a fact that I have this life as long as I breathe and I will live it for Jesus, even if it were the only one I will get .


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## Lowjack (May 13, 2010)

earl said:


> ''the Truth does not depend on our ability to understand or agree with it.''
> 
> The truth depends on what our perception or belief of the truth is . It would appear from your reference to how we live our lives, that fear of retribution is a big part of Christianity .
> 
> ...


You might be right, you might only get to live this one.
"He that believes in Christ will live though he might be dead "


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## Israel (May 13, 2010)

Living in Jesus is living for Jesus is living life.
When Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." he is stating no less than that. There is something that appears as the way...but isn't.
something that appears as truth...but isn't.
Something that appears as life...but is not.

It is not so much "I will gain an afterlife..." as much as it is getting started in the life that is life indeed that has no end in it. No death in it. No frustration in it. No limit to it. Nothing but joy in it.
Some may wanna pity the "poor christian" for being so foolish as to believe this. Whoa, that's funny right there, no matter who you are. 
One may do well to save their pity, as the Lord advised...for oneself and for ones children...unless one is living this life, and learning to share it amongst those he loves.
You will discover you are either pinning your hopes on yourself...or on Jesus.

You may be a great guy, very smart, perhaps even wise...but ultimately, just like me.
I'll listen to the one who has swallowed death, not becuase it says so in a book...but because he has shown himself to me.


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## Lowjack (May 13, 2010)

Amen To That Israel


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## Ronnie T (May 13, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> I have journeyed through the darkness, to find light residing at its end. Though my travels perilous, I knew it would conclude with peace. All I had to pursue, was resilience against the dark. For I knew it could take me, if I ever dropped my guard. But I didn't, I knew the light would come, it would bring me to heighten sense of life, and give me purpose.
> 
> Faith is what is was, a distraction from a reality that was not true.  Visions all lies, but my eyes were victims, as my heart and mind were not. The darkness is so foolish it tries to make you believe despair.  Oh yes it is there painted like a portrait of a midnight, with no stars and no moon.  Black, cold, and void of any spark that can give sight.
> 
> ...



There is light...........and then.......... there is Light.

Light is not really light unless it is the radiance of God.
In God's kingdom, heaven, there will be no light or darkness but all of heaven will be continually illuminated by the radiance of God.

"The Light came into the world but the world rejected Him".  Because the world preferred the darkness.  They even invented their own light.  They mistakenly believe their light is superior to God's Light.


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## Israel (May 15, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> There is light...........and then.......... there is Light.
> 
> Light is not really light unless it is the radiance of God.
> In God's kingdom, heaven, there will be no light or darkness but all of heaven will be continually illuminated by the radiance of God.
> ...



Yes.
We are inclined to trust our own cleverness.

We are not above telling the Lord..."You're not from around these parts, are you? I'm afraid you don't know how things are done here. Just get in line and you'll understand..."


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## thedeacon (May 15, 2010)

Throughout history "Light" has been associated with, goodness, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, the right way. 

In turn "darkness" has been associated with, evil, lake of understanding, devilish ways. The dark side, hiding in the shadows.

Jesus told us he was our light. He is our way out of the darkness of sin and misunderstanding. He is the only light.

God said I am the light to guide your pathway.

I have never heard anyone say, I am afraid of the light but I have heard many say I am afraid of the dark. There are times that the dark scares me. The dark hides the unknown and the light shines bright on the things we don't understand.

I remember many years ago when I was studing the electrical circuits in complicated chilled water system. I studied, listened, watched and it seemed that I just couldn't understand what was happening. One day a bell rang, or a light came on so to speak. I understood. All of a sudden it made sense I could trace the circuit and troubleshoot a system as good as anyone else.

I just needed the "Light" the understanding.

In a past post someone ask "What is Faith". Faith is following the light. Jesus Christ is the light. Sin is darkness.

Jesus Christ is understanding true life. Darkness is misunderstanding what the light of Jesus is all about.

In my opinion there are some on here that understand more about light than they think.

In my opinion there are some on here that the darkness covers them more than they think. Maybe me

Its all about attitude, and following Jesus Christ,  The light of the World.


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## TheBishop (May 17, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Throughout history "Light" has been associated with, goodness, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, the right way.
> 
> In turn "darkness" has been associated with, evil, lake of understanding, devilish ways. The dark side, hiding in the shadows.
> 
> ...



I agree with just about everything.  But some don't need jesus to find their own light, I didn't.  My light shines brighter than anything any book, preacher, preist or any other has showed me.  It lights my day like a beacon guiding me twards eternal peace. This light is my understanding, it is my peace, it is my sheild from the darkness, and without it I would still be lost today.


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## Huntinfool (May 17, 2010)

> and without it I would still be lost today



Boy....the profoundness of that statement....I don't want to say anything terribly offensive.

I think the counter to that is that we believe that there is only one true (and permanent) light.  Agreed, there may be other things that come as light...but I will tell you that only one shines forever and the rest will fade eventually no matter how brightly they are shining at the moment.


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## TheBishop (May 17, 2010)

Why is my statement profound? I do not understand. I have found a defining purpose for my life that gives me direction.


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## thedeacon (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> I agree with just about everything.  But some don't need jesus to find their own light, I didn't.  My light shines brighter than anything any book, preacher, preist or any other has showed me.  It lights my day like a beacon guiding me twards eternal peace. This light is my understanding, it is my peace, it is my sheild from the darkness, and without it I would still be lost today.



There is no true light of life but the light of Jesus. There are many "Lights" in this world but in the end they will lead you to darkness. 

I don't put you down for what you believe, but there is something lacking and you just don't believe it, yet. There is no light that is greater than Jesus Christ My Lord. 

I pray one day you find it.


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## ronpasley (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> Why is my statement profound? I do not understand. I have found a defining purpose for my life that gives me direction.



What is your direction?


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## TheBishop (May 17, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> There is no true light of life but the light of Jesus. There are many "Lights" in this world but in the end they will lead you to darkness.
> 
> I don't put you down for what you believe, but there is something lacking and you just don't believe it, yet. There is no light that is greater than Jesus Christ My Lord.
> 
> I pray one day you find it.



That is your belief not mine. It is awsome you believe  that, but I have looked that way and found nothing wanting.


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## TheBishop (May 17, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> What is your direction?



To love and let love guide me. To grasp spirit of life to live and be, grow and savor the moments. To see beauty in all things.  My belief is life and the power of.


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## ambush80 (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> To love and let love guide me. To grasp spirit of life to live and be, grow and savor the moments. To see beauty in all things.  My belief is life and the power of.



Yep.  With talk like that, you're on the Downtown train....but not according to me.  Those are beautiful sentiments.  Go in peace.


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## ronpasley (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> To love and let love guide me. To grasp spirit of life to live and be, grow and savor the moments. To see beauty in all things.  My belief is life and the power of.



Sounds alot like my beliefs amazing.


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## Ronnie T (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> I agree with just about everything.  But some don't need jesus to find their own light, I didn't.  My light shines brighter than anything any book, preacher, preist or any other has showed me.  It lights my day like a beacon guiding me twards eternal peace. This light is my understanding, it is my peace, it is my sheild from the darkness, and without it I would still be lost today.



That's all great and wonderful that you have found "Your" light.  Enjoy it.  But for those who believe in God, God is the only light and your light is not of God, your light is tricking you.


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## Ronnie T (May 17, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> To love and let love guide me. To grasp spirit of life to live and be, grow and savor the moments. To see beauty in all things.  My belief is life and the power of.



I notice that you've left out God, the Creator.


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## ronpasley (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> To love and let love guide me. To grasp spirit of life to live and be, grow and savor the moments. To see beauty in all things.  My belief is life and the power of.




To love and let love guide me, I agree for Christ demonstrated the power of love for the greatest history book tells us. For not just history but is display in many life’s that have been changed due to love. For love and only love can cover sins. That same love I want it to guide me also, the love that changes lives. 

The Spirit of life to live for there are many spirits which spirits is the true spirit. How can one determine the spirit of truth or the spirit that can lead you or mislead you? Do you know? 

Grow and savor the moment and to see the beauty in all things. How can this be to savor and to see beauty in all things? For the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and savor can taste so different to many. 

Belief is life and the power of amen to that. For this life is just a blink what about life after do you believe in it?

 Power yes how sweet it is. Where does your power come from?


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> That's all great and wonderful that you have found "Your" light.  Enjoy it.  But for those who believe in God, God is the only light and your light is not of God, your light is tricking you.



That is your opinion and I repsect that. I beleive you are wrong, and until it can be proven otherwise I'll live as I deem fit. I know my light is of a higher power that men can only speak of and not define. How are you to know that it is not of god?


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> Why is my statement profound? I do not understand. I have found a defining purpose for my life that gives me direction.



You would simply tell me "that's your opinion" if I explained the profoundedness of that statement.  So I will just let you continue letting love guide you.


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> To love and let love guide me, I agree for Christ demonstrated the power of love for the greatest history book tells us. For not just history but is display in many life’s that have been changed due to love. For love and only love can cover sins. That same love I want it to guide me also, the love that changes lives.
> 
> The Spirit of life to live for there are many spirits which spirits is the true spirit. How can one determine the spirit of truth or the spirit that can lead you or mislead you? Do you know?
> 
> ...



First I do not beleive in biblical sins.  I beleive there is but one sin a man can make and that is to infringe on the rights of other men. Growing up as I did, I realized the controlling nature of my religion by the way it defined sin.  I found it silly some of the things man called sin, and how preposterous that a god could would even care about such acts.

Which is the spirit of truth and how is it determined? Good question.  I do not know really how to answer that, I know how some would, but no that is not the answer for me. I would say the spirit of truth is goodness to me.  Being a positive in life, trying to better me, my loved ones and those who I hold dear.  Trying to leave the world a better place than when I got here by making a positive impact.  

Yes beauty is the to beholder, just like life we all see it differently.  That is why I beleif is spirituality is individual, and some do not need same things as others to find light.

The life after....hmmm... What do I beleive..........I think I'll stick to what I know, for now anyways.  Which is energy can neither be created or destroyed just transformed.  So If I beleive life has an energy source (soul), our energy is just transformed.  To what I do not know.  Heaven? A place were a chosen few have exclusive rights? No I don't think so.


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> You would simply tell me "that's your opinion" if I explained the profoundedness of that statement.  So I will just let you continue letting love guide you.



So it is your opinion that my statement is profound not that it is actually profound.  Becuase it is contrary to what you beleive it is profound to you.  I can accept that.


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

> I beleive there is but one sin a man can make



"sin" implies you are sinning against someone......who are you sinning against?  If you say "the other person", who is the determinant of "sin" then?  Does each person determine what is "sin" for themselves?  So you only have one?


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> So it is your opinion that my statement is profound not that it is actually profound.  Becuase it is contrary to what you beleive it is profound to you.  I can accept that.



Actually....I did not tell you why I find it profound.  So...


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Actually....I did not tell you why I find it profound.  So...



Ahhh..but you did.


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

Interesting....we have a mind reader.


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> "sin" implies you are sinning against someone......who are you sinning against?  If you say "the other person", who is the determinant of "sin" then?  Does each person determine what is "sin" for themselves?  So you only have one?



Do you only read part of a post? I beleive the only sin is to infringe upon the rights of others. I believe are rights are unalieble "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". To infringe on that, and you are forsaken your own rights.


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

and who, exactly are you sinning against?  Who granted you those rights?  The founding fathers?  

You like the founding docs so much...I'm surprised you didn't include who they say granted you those unalienable rights.

"the Creator", I'm sure will be your answer.  A very vauge and ambiguous term, isn't it?  I'd encourage you to do some cross ref research on the writers of that doc and see who they were referring to as "Creator".  

So, it seems here, that the guys you depend on so much were followers of someone you don't believe in....doesn't that make them a little looney like the rest of us?  Why would you put so much weight on something written by people who believe a fairytale?


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

The Founding fathers left that term ambiguous for a reason.  They could not themselves agree to who the creator is, they understood the need for ambiguity pertaining to religion and God.  They understood that tolerance of all peoples view of the subject was paramount to a free society.


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## WTM45 (May 18, 2010)

Very good thread, Bishop!

Happiness and contentment can be found outside of man's predispositions and aged historical religious belief systems.
It can also be found WITHIN them, as the very term "happiness" is as subjective as the term "faith."


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## thedeacon (May 18, 2010)

Like I have said before. "You can't outpuke a buzzard"


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Like I have said before. "You can't outpuke a buzzard"




Is all that you have to add to the discussion?


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> The Founding fathers left that term ambiguous for a reason.  They could not themselves agree to who the creator is, they understood the need for ambiguity pertaining to religion and God.  They understood that tolerance of all peoples view of the subject was paramount to a free society.





So...an un-named creator (who we can't possibly agree on) gave us our rights....and they are so obvious as to be self-evident...but the Creator who gave those self-evident right is NOT, himself, self-evident?  Is that what you're trying to convince me of? 

Tell me, do you believe you are created?







_"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson_ (and yes, I know he was more of a deist...I just thought this was funny.)


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> So...an un-named creator (who we can't possibly agree on) gave us our rights....and they are so obvious as to be self-evident...but the Creator who gave those self-evident right is NOT, himself, self-evident?  Is that what you're trying to convince me of?
> 
> Tell me, do you believe you are created?
> 
> ...



First I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  Im merely stating what I beleive. I do not beleive I was created, I know I was.  When my father and mother concieved me I was created. I too created a child with another in production.  

I assure you I have not confused the terms tolerance or acceptance. I both tolerate your views and accept them as your views.  I will not accept them as fact until you can proove me otherwise.


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## thedeacon (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> Is all that you have to add to the discussion?



Yes my friend Thats all. Why try to beat a dead horse?


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

TheBishop said:


> I do not beleive I was created, I know I was.  When my father and mother concieved me I was created. I too created a child with another in production.
> 
> I assure you I have not confused the terms tolerance or acceptance. I both tolerate your views and accept them as your views.  I will not accept them as fact until you can proove me otherwise.



So....let me get this straight.  You believe, then, that "endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable Rights..." means that your parents endowed you with those rights and you endowed your children with them?  Is that what you're saying?  

I'm asking because you put such weight in these documents (as do I by the way).  But, if everyone has a different set of "creators", then how does everybody get the same rights?  Why didn't they say "creators" rather than "Creator" which, as you know, implies a single universal Creator (thus the capital letter)?


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## TheBishop (May 18, 2010)

I'm sorry for confusing you.  You asked If I beleive I was created I said yes, my creators were my parents as theirs were my grandparents. You should have asked do you beleive in a Creator of all that is.  My answer would have been again yes but I do not believe the creators creates individually.   To me the creator is the hand that held the lighter that light the fuse to set all this mess in motion, so to speak.


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## Huntinfool (May 18, 2010)

Good grief.....


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