# Tithing



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

Where in the Bible does it require tithing?


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## garndawg (Sep 29, 2004)

Hey Randy,

It's in the Mosaic Law and first occurs in Leviticus 27, starting in Vs:30

30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD ; it is holy to the LORD . 31 If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock-every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod-will be holy to the LORD .

Hope this helps...


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## Jeff Phillips (Sep 29, 2004)

Randy - There are no New Testament references to tithing. Paul tells us we are to be cheerful givers.


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## mpowell (Sep 29, 2004)

kinda long but i found this on the web

The tithe is an Old Testament concept.  The tithe was basically a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were give 10% of everything they earn and grow to the tabernacle / temple (Lev 27:30; Num 18:26; Deut 14:24; 2Chr 31:5).  Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites of the sacrificial system.  The New Testament nowhere mentions the tithe system and nowhere recommends that New Covenant believers follow it.  Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1Cor 16:1-2).  The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1Cor 16:2).  The Christian church took the 10% figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving.  However, New Covenant believers should not feel obligated to always give 10%.  They should give as they are able, “in keeping with his income”.  Sometimes that means giving more than 10%, sometime that may mean giving less than 10%.  It all depends on the ability of the giver and the needs of the church.  Each and every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom for how much he or she should give (James 1:5). “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2Cor 9:7).


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## PWalls (Sep 29, 2004)

I agree that tithing is an old testament concept, but I disagree with the notion that it is not mentioned in the New Testament.

Read Hebrews 7. Specifically verses 1-8.

It says that Abraham gave tithes to a priest, Melchisedec. This man was not of the house of Levi (which came from Abraham) whom God set up as the priests to take the tithes. Yet, Melchisedec was a high priest. Jesus came from the house of Judah and is our great high priest. Yet, the old testament structure never had priests coming from Judah.

Look at verse 8. How can people give tithes to dead men (priests in old testament) but not give them to the one with eternal life, Jesus (our high priest).

I look at it this way. Everything I have is through the grace of God. If he wants me to give a tenth of it to the church, then I will strive to do so. If you have to give up certain things to make that happen, then you are putting yourself in God's hands and that is a good thing. I give to my church with a free conscience knowing that I am giving to my Lord. IF the church uses that irresponsibly, then the distributors of that in the church will have to answer to the Lord for that.

Also, verse 2 Cor 9:7 that deals with the cheerful giver is not about tithing, but about ministering to saints (read verse 1). That is the same as giving to an evangelist or mission or such. That is after/beyond a tithe and not considered part of the 10% tithe.

I believe in the above and the need for a tithe. The passages were given to me by another (as I am not nearly that good at finding them in the Bible just yet).


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## stumpman (Sep 29, 2004)

Pwalls this is the very thing im haveing a hard time with ive been raised in church all my life since age 8 been saved since i was 9 yrs old and my kids are raised that way also and have tithed but now im haveing a hard time with some of the things the church is doing with the money our preacher makes around $87,000 pr yr total package for 4.5 days work of a church of 325-350 people and the church cant hardley afford it he got 2 raises last year were trying to build a new building and hes preachin give more they need to quit wasteing so much and ive showed them how to save but they always have an answer for it i work hard for my money and cant see letting someone whose careless waste it im for any body makeing all they can but when you cant afford something it has to come to a halt if me or you dont have enough money to buy a new truck what happens i cant tell my customers im going to have you pay more so i can buy a new truck they will say dont spend as much somewhere else thats whats got me lookin for a new church but my oldest loves it there he plays on the ball team and loves sunday school so what do ya do? enough for now this is the most i think ive ever typed so im gone Thanks. dont get me wrong i do believe in titheing ive done al my life until these last 2 months ive bought extra stuff and donated it to the church also  so i do tithe im just dealin with this.       




Stumpman


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## Carp (Sep 29, 2004)

I know this is kinda straying from the subject a little, but my Daddy always said that a preacher shouldn't make any more money than the average person that attends their church. I think that preacher making $87,000 might be getting a tad too much. Just my humble opinion.


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## duckbill (Sep 29, 2004)

Stumpman,
I commend you for tithing faithfully all of these years.  I believe we should tithe out of obedience.  I feel that everything I have, I have because God has provided it.  It all belongs to Him, He only asks for 10% back.

HERE IS MY TAKE.
The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, is the New involves the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  We no longer need the "LAW", because the "LAWS" are written in our hearts(when we accept the gift of salvation).  I tithe because when I read the scriptures, the Holy Spirit lays it on my heart that tithing is what God want me to do.  It doesn't matter whether I'm reading Old or New Testament scriptures.  God speaks to us through His Word (the Bible).

Stumpman, as a trustee, I feel your frustration.  Try not to evaluate it too much, however.  God doesn't really NEED our money.  He can do His work with or without it.  We are to be good stewards with His money and you did the  right thing by expressing your opinion.  Beyond that it's in God's hands.  If the church is not following the will of God, then you should certainly think about looking for a new church home.  My suggestion is to pray that the leadership of your church will seek God's guidance in all of their decisions.

Bill


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## stumpman (Sep 29, 2004)

Thanks bill.


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## Throwback (Sep 30, 2004)

2 Corinthians 8


Generosity Encouraged 

1And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints. 5And they did not do as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then to us in keeping with God's will. 6So we urged Titus, since he had earlier made a beginning, to bring also to completion this act of grace on your part. 7But just as you excel in everything--in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us[1] --see that you also excel in this grace of giving. 
8I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich. 
10And here is my advice about what is best for you in this matter: Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. 11Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means. 12For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have. 
13Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality, 15as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."[2] 

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mark 12-41-44
The Widow's Offering 

41Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins,[10] worth only a fraction of a penny.[11] 
43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything--all she had to live on." 

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proverbs 11:24-25

24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more; 
another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. 

25 A generous man will prosper; 
he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. 


Christ gave his life for me--tithing is not a problem--I owe him much more!   
T


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## Howard Roark (Sep 30, 2004)

Carp said:
			
		

> I know this is kinda straying from the subject a little, but my Daddy always said that a preacher shouldn't make any more money than the average person that attends their church. I think that preacher making $87,000 might be getting a tad too much. Just my humble opinion.



A preacher is on call 24-7-365.  Look at the Barna surveys and see how stressful a preachers job is.  If I remember correctly 4.5 years is the lifespan of a pastor.  None of the pastors whom I have served on church boards with were ever overpayed, in fact I was ashamed of how little we paid them.

I feel called to tithe on my income.  I don't think God is some beancounter in heaven keeping track of the 10% to the last penny.

One time as a deacon I studied the giving list (when we were considering a building program) at the church I was attending at the time.  If members of the church I attended at the time were tithing there were alot of people living on $5,000 per year who drove very nice cars and lived in nice houses.  I felt sorry for them.


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## PWalls (Sep 30, 2004)

Looks like the thread go taken over by those that agree with tithing.

I will also say that in today's world, it takes money to do just about anything. Since we are called to spread God's word through ministry, that means we just can't sit on out keesters and do nothing. That means going out and doing. One of the best ways to do that is through you church and its outreach programs. It takes money to do that.

There again, everything I have is a blessing from God and is rightfully his. The New Testament does not totally replace the Old Testament, it fulfills it. So the teachings in the Old Testament still apply.

God says he wants some of what is rightfully his, therefore I have to give it up. If I get so upset over how my tithe is being distributed at my local church and after I have spoken about it to the pastor and relevant committes, then I would question the direction of that church and probably go find a more Christ centered one.

As a last example, I thought about attending a very nice, large church in town when I first accepted Christ as my saviour. But, when they found out I was looking, the very first thing they sent me was a budget sheet wanting me to fill out my personal information on salary and how much I would give during the year. There was even a payment schedule booklet attached. No way did I go for that church.


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## groundhawg (Sep 30, 2004)

*In the New and Old Testament*

Just a few place you might want to review...
Genesis 14:18-20; Genesis 28:22; Hebrews 7:1-2; Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; and Hebrews 7:4.

There a few other verses that also speak about giving and stewardship.  I started while just a kid, 10 years old or less, and have never thought it right to stop - 52 now.  Have proven many times you can not out give God.  Have even given 10% of the veggies from my garden and vension from deers I have killed.  Hardest part for me is giving of my time, have not been able to give back to the Lord in time and work to the church.

GT


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## Randy (Sep 30, 2004)

OK Howard,
You brought it up so I will run with it.  I am not trying to say that a preaher is not worth what he is paid.  There are a few on this forum who I consider friends, but....

In my opinion, a preacher should not stand up in front of a church in a 3 piece suit worth more than most in the church can afford, wearing a Rolex and driving a Beamer when he has people in his church suffering.  I have nothing against them making a living, they have a family to support also.  But if they have all the worldly items that they say we should avoid so we can tithe, I have a real hard time with this.  There are even those that preach on how God wants you to be so successful that if you will give to them (so they can have more) God will bless you 7X70.  In some way I kind of agree with what I understand from the Catholic religion that they take a vow of poverty.  God does wants us all to be happy but those wordly things can cause problems and in fact you should not tithe so that you can get a "good return on your money."


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## Mechanicaldawg (Sep 30, 2004)

Y'all don't forget to tithe your time and affort as well as your finances!


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## garndawg (Sep 30, 2004)

I've been thinking about what Randy is asking.

Q: Should I tithe?
A: Methinks "Yes".  For all the reasons given previously, and because I'm told to.  The argument about not being specifically commanded in the New Testament doesn't hold much water to me, as Jesus stated plainly that He did come come to replace the Law, but to fulfill it.  Reading the Gospels, I don't recall Jesus ever reiterating "Do not Murder".  That would've been obvious to everyone, and not in need of reinforcement.  Ditto with tithing.  When the Pharisees tried to trap Him in questions regarding paying taxes to Caesar, He didn't use that opportunity to absolve them of tithing, but told them to both tithe AND pay their taxes.  Seems pretty clear what He intends.

If the subject turns from "Should I tithe?" to "What are they doing with my tithe?", there's additional guidance I'm to follow.

I'm to first test the fellowship, as Paul directs.  If the fellowship is in blatant rebellion, I find a another that is pursuing Christ.  I'm supposed to be constantly on my guard for false teaching, by testing it against Scripture.

As for a specific individual, like a pastor, how am I feeling about him/her?  Am I upset?  Hot-under-the-collar?  Or am I concerned for his well-being and his ability to influence and lead the congregation?  There's a bit in John 21, after Jesus reinstates Peter, He rebukes the disciples when they're asking about John's destiny.

<Quote:> Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." <Unquote> (Gospel of John 21:22)

My pastor may or may not be following Christ appropriately by taking a larger salary than he needs, but that's the church body's job, as a whole, to decide.  The church body, including me, appoints Deacons to police the pastor and each other.  As an individual, I'm supposed to concentrate mostly on myself, and not worry about God's providence on others.  I'm also not supposed to gloat when they "get their comuppance" either.

It's the whole "plank in the eye, speck in your brothers' eye" thing.  I've got plenty of tendency to judge others that needs to be tempered heavily.

That's what I've been taught, and what I believe.  I try to live that, as best I can, and sometimes I fail.  I'm glad to have a church around me that'll rebuke me gently when I get a little too down on others.

My thoughts...


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## Randy (Sep 30, 2004)

Should I tithe was not the question.  But you had a great answer to your question.  I wanted to know where in the Bible it "required" tithing.  I think I have gotten that answer from some of the posts and I thank you guys for the help.


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## cpaboy (Sep 30, 2004)

*Jesus addressed tithing*

Matthew 23:23 in NLT

"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law – justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things."

Jesus definitely endorsed tithing.

I am the chairman of the finance team at our church and I have very strong convictions about tithing.  I believe that 100% of the tithe should go to the general fund of the local church.  Anything I give to other ministries, missions, charities, or even other funds at our church like the building fund is above and beyond the tithe.

Several years ago the Lord convicted me about tithing my gross income.  I started that and my wife immediately received an unexpected raise.  If you know me from earlier posts, you know I am not a proponent of this prosperity gospel.  But I do know this, You cannot out-give God!!!!!!!!

This is one of the only areas in the Bible where the Lord says to put him to the test and see if he will not bless you.  I issue each of you a challenge to put the Lord to the test.


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## Vernon Holt (Sep 30, 2004)

Howard Roark said:
			
		

> One time as a deacon I studied the giving list (when we were considering a building program) at the church I was attending at the time. If members of the church I attended at the time were tithing there were alot of people living on $5,000 per year who drove very nice cars and lived in nice houses. I felt sorry for them.


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"But when thou doest alms, let not thy left *hand* know *what* thy *right* *hand* doeth". Matthew 6:3

This Scripture seems to teach that giving alms is a matter that is between man and his God. As such it seems to be imperative that this part of a believer's stewardship be closely guarded. 

In Churches where I have served, this highly confidential information is known only to the Financial Secretary and/or the Church Treasurer. Pastors who are wise will not avail themselves of this information. Deacons should never have access to individual levels of giving.

A common error in many churches is the matter of preferential treatment which may be afforded individuals who happen to be generous givers. Under God's scheme of things, the Widow"s Mite may very well be far more generous than the thousands given by a respected businessman who is highly regarded for his giving. 

Vernon


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## stumpman (Sep 30, 2004)

Another tithe ? do yall tithe on the profit you make off of a sale of something i sold my lake house last year and thought it right to tithe on the profit i made how do yall feel about this? and the bit about a preacher being on call 24-7 thew new that when they decided to take on that profession so thats part of there job ive had some bad preachers in the past one became an insurance salesman and got mad because i wouldnt by his insurance when i moved where i live now the preacher of the church we attended i heard him cussing a man on the phone and then he was arrested for child molesting so i expect a preacher to be called of god not financial gain thats my problem. and thanks guys for us being able to have these type of discussions on a hunting forum not to much talk like this in most hunt camps.


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## garndawg (Sep 30, 2004)

My mom, a CPA, had a response to my fresh-out-of-college question real close to that Stumpman poses.

"Tithe what income you want God to bless."


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## Madsnooker (Oct 1, 2004)

To many people get caught up in "How much does the pastor make" or what he is driving. I do agree that there are those that abuse this and God will deal with them. The people I know that use these reasons for not giving are trying to make them selves feel better. I'm not implying that towards anyone on this thread just those I've known personally.

Tithing is a principle that God has put into place. It is explained in the New and Old Testaments. It is not a requirement to be saved. But if a believer grasps this principle he will be much better off. 

My wife and I have always tithed(I am in no way patting myself on the back as there have been times it has been hard) and it would take me a week to type all the unbelievable blessings we have recieved because of this. God is faithfull and he wants you to put him to this test. If you tithe when it's convienant, you will never understand this principle.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Oct 1, 2004)

From the way it has been presented to me and it does make sense:
1.  How much faith do you have in God?  He says that He will bless those that give.  I believe many folks just don't want to let go of their money, pure and simple.  Do you REALLY believe that God will bless you if you are a "cheerful giver"?
2.  If you really believe, then you believe that all you have, you have because God gave it to you.  What you give you are giving back to God what is His anyway.  We are stewards of what He has entrusted to us.

I have a relative that doesn't tithe simply, as she puts it "I can't afford to".  This relative attends church faithfully, says she loves the Lord, but when it comes to giving money, well.........  I can't help but wonder "where's the faith in that?"

Many of you have said that you don't give for whatever reasons, well, I guess *that's between you and God*.  It doesn't matter what you say to me, anyone on this forum, your relatives, even your pastor.  God knows your heart, he knows why you really don't give.  If you give but you hate parting with your money, DON'T GIVE!!!!  I don't remember the exact Scripture (maybe someone can help me out), but it basically says that if you give with a heavy heart then God doesn't want it. 

I have no personal interest if you give or not, I only suggest that you look deep into your heart, be honest with yourself, and rectify yourself with God if need be.  I believe in many cases, some folks put money ahead of God.  If that is so, then money is their god.

I have only briefly skimmed these posts, I don't remember who said what.  So don't come back and say that I am personally attacking you.  It doesn't matter what you have to say to me, I suggest you take it up with God.


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## dave (Oct 2, 2004)

*It believe it doesn't ......*

tithing is your choice ..... as we were freed from the law.


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## hogman2 (Oct 2, 2004)

What most people fail to realize about Jesus mentioning tithing is that he was talking to Jews and that by law they were required to tithe.  Jesus himself, to be found "spotless" had to abide by the same law.  Another poster mentioned the verse were Jesus says ,"I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it."  Until his death and subsequent resurection every Jewish law was to be followed as a requirement for getting into Heaven.  In Hebrews it is clearly stated that Jesus fulfilled the law with his death/resurection and that the law has passed away.  Paul goes on to state that those who try to follow part of the law have fallen "out of Grace" and are bound by the entire law.  Since noone can follow the entire law these people are doomed.  If you decide to tithe do so as a personal choice, not under any conviction to obey the Law.  Since during his lifetime Jesus was bound by the Jewish Law he could not tell others to do things contrary to the Law, but after His death the disciples freely instructed people to do things that until then were "sins" because the Law had passed away.  Paul instructs chistians to "give as your heart leads"
inb one instance and says "we have asked nothing of you" in another.


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