# Heavy arrows/Broadheads????



## Mr7mag (Jun 29, 2010)

Why do you guys shoot such heavy arrows and broadheads on your traditional equipment?


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## Tailfeather (Jun 29, 2010)

Penetration.....think of how a baseball hits harder than a ping-pong ball.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 29, 2010)

Because speed doesn't kill, momentum does!  Besides, I don't want to take the "arch" out of archery.


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## Mr7mag (Jun 29, 2010)

*Penetration*

When everyone with compounds generally wants to shoot a lighter/faster/flatter arrow, the traditional shooters go the opposite way and shoot slower/heavier/not flat trajectory. 

While your baseball vs ping-pong ball analogy is accurate and appreciated. I was hoping for a more detailed explanation. 

Thank you


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## DePhil (Jun 29, 2010)

Marty said it well, momentum, the punch of the arrow (how hard it is to stop).  Think of it this way.  Would you prefer to shoot a deer with a .223 or a .280?  While both will do the job, the .223 is travelling so fast, near 4,000 fps, if it hits a rib, the bullet disintegrates.  The .280 traveling at 3,000 fps blows thru the same rib.  The reason, the mass of the bullet-55 grains for the .223, 165 grains for the .280.   I, personally, seldom shoot a deer at 20 yards, my average distance is about 10 or 11 yards.   At the ranges I shoot, my 800 grain arrows are great, not easily deflected, hard hitting, making for a very, very quiet bow.  If I live out west where shots at 35 yards are necessary, I might have to rethink arrow weight.


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## Al33 (Jun 29, 2010)

I think the compound shooters want to be accurate taking shots at 40+ yards where flatter trajectory enables it but the trad shooters must limit their shots to much less yardages so flatter and speedier are not necessarily better. There is little doubt an experienced compound shooter can out shoot a trad shooter, all other things being equal, when it comes to target shooting. We choose to limit ourselves with our equipment and we like things simple, some more so than others.

With the advent of the light weight carbon arrows it is more often than not necessary to have added weight to get them to fly straight and true. This added weight not only helps with arrow flight but penetration as well. If we can get arrows to fly straight and true from a given bow and hit what we are looking at at 20 yards most of us are happy with that. Additionally, it is not a good thing to shoot lighter arrows from a trad bow because it can come close to dry firing a bow which of course is not good. Also, a heavier arrow often quietens a bow when it is launched.

These are some of the things I can think of off the top of my noggin at the moment but I am certain there are more reasons as well.


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## TIMBERGHOST (Jun 29, 2010)

Very good explanations from DePhil and Al33.  Couldn't have said it or even thought it better myself!


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## Apex Predator (Jun 29, 2010)

The average man can't shoot the same draw weight in a traditional bow that he can in a compound.  The normal weights used most are in the 45-55# range.  The energy available is much less than the normal 60-70# range that most compound shooters are using.  To get the same penetration we must use heavier arrows.  I feel very confident shooting deer and hogs with longbows only generating 26-27 ftlbs of energy, which most wheel bow enthusiasts would scoff at.  This is made possible by shooting heavier arrows with higher forward of center balance.  I also have to shoot broadheads designed for maximum penetration.  This includes most two blades and long and narrower three blades.  The steep blade angle on most broadheads marketed towards wheel bow shooters inhibit penetration too much on lighter weight trad bows.


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## Supercracker (Jun 29, 2010)

I can shoot my 900gr snuffer tipped arrows through a garbage can. I have a hard time seeing a super light weight carbon laser fast arrow doing, much less surviving, that.


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## Mr7mag (Jun 29, 2010)

*Thanks*

Thanks to everyone for the information.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 29, 2010)

Mr7mag said:


> Why do you guys shoot such heavy arrows and broadheads on your traditional equipment?



Who says we all do?? And who dictates whats heavy and whats light??

Typically speaking a heavier arrow is a bit more on the forgiving side. When the entire force draw of the bow is on your back and shoulders your string fingers appreciate an arrow with a shade of forgiveness to it.

The massively heavy arrow craze really spiked when Docs new study findings were published.

And from the mass majority of what I have read over around 8 different trad archery boards, the majority (note I said majority not ALL)that have shifted to this uber 13-16gpp arrow size do not have the experience or kill numbers with set ups like this to be making the assertions and comments they actually make. It's more "they've read this, switched to that, so it has to be perfect."

That said even though they are both classified as "bows" you cannot compare arrow speeds of compounds with arrow speeds of traditional bows. Physics and simple mechanical leverage equate to MASSIVE energy being able to be stored in todays compounds. 

So ; WITH all the "excessive" energy you have to play with in a compound, coupled with the fact that you can relax your fingers because the 65-85% let off is merely placing pressure on your release and not a slender string crossing your fingers. You CAN drop arrow wieghts in order to achieve a flatter trajectory, smaller gaps in sight pins, giving more margin for error in your yardage judgement and still have more than enough energy to blast through a whitetail.

Most trad bow shooters like a bit of compensation. As do I..... I have shot slap through whitetail with a 50# recurve and 400gr arrows...... I've also goofed and smacked a shoulder blade with the same set up and watched my arrow fall out the impact side 50yds down the trail and never found the deer. It was absolutely no fault of the equipment at all. It was the moron  behind the bow that new better than to try a shot like that with a set up like that, but did it anyway.

What MOST of us strive to do is find a happy medium that not only suits our shooting style and bow as far as arrow cast goes, but also instills in us the confidence that "yes" I'll knock a hole slap through him even if I have to go through the shoulder to get there.

But like I said...... there are those of us that go a bit on the overboard side. And I can also point you in the direction of trad sites where the majority of the shooters have went a tad in the direction of "underboard" side.

AMO is a safety standard IBO is a minimum standard..... last time I checked it was 8gpp. I mainly shoot between 9 and 10gpp on most my bows. I have one that adores 8gpp that I like to hunt with. but I also have another that is pretty much taylor made to shoot 11gpp 750gr arrows out of. What I actually look for is about 185fps. This seems to be an arrow trajectory speed that my eye can learn quickly and my brain can compensate for arrow drop with better than most other speeds. I'm not getting down to it has to be between 185.7 and 186.957 fps. just a ball park. 180-190 seems to work for me. Gotta bud in Texas that shoots recurves and prefers the 200fps ball park speeds. tomato, mater. Ity's what ever works for ya. 

It's like matching a hatch man. You build a weapon based upon your needs and desires and how you wish it to perform. And as in most all cases, in order to get a bit more of "this", you will have to give up a little bit of "that"


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## Son (Jun 29, 2010)

I'll say this. Back in the years when I was in traditional bowhunting. I used the heaviest arrow my bow would shoot accurately, and 145 grain broadheads. I was drawing 55 to 60 pounds with 31 inch arrows. First aluminums were called 312, then I went to 2219's. When I shot wood, I shot cedar shafts that were spined for the weight, and one year shot forgewoods, a compressed heavy shaft that wasn't good for long shots. All told, I did pretty well, as I harvested my share of deer and hogs in South Florida.

Thats me shooting, notice I moved up to a compound. I'm also the third from the left in the other picture. Florida Bowhunters Council 1970's.


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## hogdgz (Jun 29, 2010)

Most of my arrows for my bows range between 500-600 grains and this weight has worked well for me with no penetration issues. Passed through 4 deer last year (includeing the buck in my avatar) with this setup out of a 53# bow.


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## Night Wing (Jun 30, 2010)

I shoot lighweight recurve bows with heavy arrow weights grain per pound wise. My aluminum arrows weigh 523-528 grains depending on which recurve I'm shooting.


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## Supercracker (Jun 30, 2010)

I ended up with the super heavy arrow by virtue of where and what I was hunting. 

The vast majority of my shots ended up being very short and I'm only hunting pigs. So I opted for the really heavy arrow because it was very rare for me to need to shoot more than 10 or so yards but if I mess up and hit a rib or something it just doesn't phase that heavy arrow. That extra weight will also drive a great big broad head in whereas a lighter arrow would be slowed down.

Of course, if it is 15 or so yards it's like I'm shooting a mortar.


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## Mr7mag (Jun 30, 2010)

Son, 
The big arm on the edge of that picture wouldn't be James Haislop would it?  I think he was part of the council back then.






Son said:


> I'll say this. Back in the years when I was in traditional bowhunting. I used the heaviest arrow my bow would shoot accurately, and 145 grain broadheads. I was drawing 55 to 60 pounds with 31 inch arrows. First aluminums were called 312, then I went to 2219's. When I shot wood, I shot cedar shafts that were spined for the weight, and one year shot forgewoods, a compressed heavy shaft that wasn't good for long shots. All told, I did pretty well, as I harvested my share of deer and hogs in South Florida.
> 
> Thats me shooting, notice I moved up to a compound. I'm also the third from the left in the other picture. Florida Bowhunters Council 1970's.


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## Son (Jun 30, 2010)

Yes, That's James, Mr. America 1968. I was his gym workout partner for about ten years before I moved from Fl. I was President of the Council, and James was one of the Directors on the board. Couldn't have made it without friends like James and the rest you see in that picture.


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## Mr7mag (Jul 1, 2010)

My Brother was President for a few years and I was a Director. It takes a lot of hard work and many times we found James there beside us as well. Lots of hard work and good times!
I'm thankful for guys like you and James that were there at the start.


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## Son (Jul 1, 2010)

The Bowhunters Council was down to less than a hundred members one year, so James, Harold Finke and I went to the President who was Billy Adams and ask what we could do. He said, attend the next meeting in Longwood Fl. Hosted by McClain. We did, and they voted me in as Prez, Harold and James as Directors. We took it from there. Fired all that were in name only and replaced em with people who would contribute. We grew so fast it got to where I couldn't even find time to enter the shoot. One year, a hurricane brought us down again, so we mailed out membership letters. Thanks to all, they joined again even though we didn't have a Jamboree. Henry Pierce replaced me when I moved out of Florida in 82.
I have many doubles of the Journals published when I was in the Council, and will donate them to the council. If I ever find out where i've stored em.


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm pretty much the same as everyone else. It doesn't matter how fast the arrow is going if it bounces off a rib or scapula when it gets there. I feel like heavier arrows carry more of the available energy from the bow than lighter ones do, and also shoot quieter and can tame a hand-shocky bow. Plus, I like my heavy cane shafts because they bounce off of trees, rocks, and such instead of breaking in the unlikely event that I might happen to miss what I'm shooting at.  I know a few people who shoot 3D with light arrows to flatten out the trajectory and up their scores, but I consider 3D to be hunting practice and generally use the same weight arrows that I hunt with. I also know a couple people who sell bows who always shoot really light arrows so that people will say "Wow! That's a really fast-shooting bow, I gotta have one."


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## Son (Jul 2, 2010)

The lighter weight arrow one shoots, the closest to dry firing the bow with an arrow on the string you can get. I believe a heavy arrow computes to less shock to the bow limbs, and you.
Old school, I also like the old type broadheads that I can tune and sharpen. I have a method that puts a fine serration on the edge. This edge will not glance off bone or antler. Done with a file by raking the sharpened edge, then touching the edge back center. Tricky, but it works well.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 2, 2010)

Son said:


> The lighter weight arrow one shoots, the closest to dry firing the bow with an arrow on the string you can get. I believe a heavy arrow computes to less shock to the bow limbs, and you.
> Old school, I also like the old type broadheads that I can tune and sharpen. I have a method that puts a fine serration on the edge. This edge will not glance off bone or antler. Done with a file by raking the sharpened edge, then touching the edge back center. Tricky, but it works well.



Old type broad heads?? ya mean traditional style heads sir?? 

Or true ol schoolers like Hills hornet, original rothaar snuffers.. adn oh oh oooohhhh!!! BABY!! the badest head ever made. PEARSON DEAD HEAD.


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## markland (Jul 2, 2010)

Mainly cuz I like my arrow sticking in the ground on the back side of the animal I just shot.  However there is a point of diminishing returns at both ends and depending on your setup you have to find that out for yourself.  For me I like to be in the 500-600gr range with my arrows shooting 54-56# bows at my 27in draw length, they seem to penetrate very well, have limited arrow drop, are quiet off the bow and I do not have to exagerate my hold over on longer shots past 25yds.  My instictive hold is around 20yds and I don't even have to think about it and can keep my arrows in the kill zone from 10 to about 25yds, anything over that and I have to start thinking about arrow drop.  If I get close to 600grs or more I have alot more arrow drop to deal with and really have to fine tune hold for shots over 20yds, under 20 really not a big deal.  450grs or less and penetraton is not consistent enough and I get more bow noise and more critical on the release as well.


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## Son (Jul 3, 2010)

Old type broadheads. Under that heading, I'm including all that  had to be tuned for center and sharpened. My first broadhead was a bent over coke cap on a .28 cent arrow to hunt rabbits with in 1951.
Coke cap broadhead was serrated on one side, smooth on the other, but they worked on small game. Might add, I was shooting a longbow made by Indian. First store bought bow I ever had. My memory says it was an "Indian", but that was a long time ago.
Every rabbit in ten miles feared me back in those days...


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