# 130 grain core lokt problem?



## MIKE RAINEY

Shot at this doe 5 times Saturday. Fixing to shoot the sixth time when she fell over. After skinning her out she had 5 holes in her with no exit wounds. It is a 270 with 130 grain Remington core lokt bullets. Has any one had the same problem?

If you don't see 4 holes there look close!


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## lagrangedave

Yes, I lost one yesterday. Scratching my head over why she didn't fall. I know that I hit her behind her shoulder. No blood and no deer. Why? Any theories?


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## lbzdually

Nope.  I've blown through both shoulders of a 125lb hog, which is a lot tougher than a deer.  I think the Corelokt is the best 'budget' bullet there is.


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## Steyr

Used core lokts for years and never seen a  pass thru that's why i switched to Barnes Triple Shock...they plum nasty.


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## buck chooter

when it comes to 270 and core lokts, i always shoot the 150grain. killed 30+ deer with it, never needed a second shot, never a single one of those deer take a single step after the shot.


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## buck chooter

Steyr said:


> Used core lokts for years and never seen a  pass thru that's why i switched to Barnes Triple Shock...they plum nasty.



barnes is good stuff!


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## georgiahunter21

killed 8 point yesterday morning pass through but i have always used 150 grain core-lock bullet never had any problem with a deer as long a good shot was made


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## MTMiller

I've used 30-06 Core LokT for the last 20 years and I haven't lost a deer yet.  Most always the bullet makes a large exit wound.  Just killed a nice buck yesterday and it didn't even take a step.  Dead right where shot.


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## buck chooter

i used to shoot core lokt in my 30-06, but havent recently made a switch to the hornady superformance ammo. it is NASTY in the 270 and in the 30-06.


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## JohnnyWalker

I've killed perhaps 30 deer in my lifetime and all with corelokt.  Some with a 243 and other with 30-30.  I've had both situations.  Either a pass through wound or only a puncture wound.  If you get a pass through it is probably due to not hitting bone or some tough tissue.  When you don't get a pass through the bullet has mushroomed and expended all of it's energy in the animal doing a lot of damage.  In a pass through if you could find the round you'll probably find that there is little or no expansion of the bullet which is not a good thing.  If you are getting mostly pass throughs then I think about switching to a lighter round.


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## buck chooter

JohnnyWalker said:


> In a pass through if you could find the round you'll probably find that there is little or no expansion of the bullet which is not a good thing.  If you are getting mostly pass throughs then I think about switching to a lighter round.



thats not necessarily true. here is a pic of a pass through from this morning with a 55grain hornady v-max (varmint ammo) shot from a 22-250. looks like plenty of expansion to me, and cant switch to a much lighter round.


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## brbloodworth

In shot this guy Thursday with 130 grain core lokt. Dropped dead without so much as a kick from 70 yards. Shot a doe the day before and she didn't move.


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## karoni17

Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.


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## BigAl5601

I shot Remington 150 Grain core lokt ammo in .308 for years and was never satisfied. Had to track quite a few deer farther than I wanted to. Even had a couple I never found. Switched to Winchester 150 grain power point and it has been like night and day. Most deer only make 20-30 yards if they don't drop where I shoot them. I am 100% satisfied with the Winchester rounds but wouldn't hunt with the Remington again.


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## bigart

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



REALLY? I shoot a 270 with 130gr ballistic tips from GA. ARMS and have shot more 40 deer with them and I have only had 2 run about 20 yards the rest drop dead in their tracks and have always had pass threw. If the shot is 100yrds or less I take the neck shot anything further is right behind the shoulder and the longest shot I have taken a deer at was 287yrds and he never took another step.


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## deadend

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



Thats just ignant.


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## SCDieselDawg

Dad and I have shot them for 10+ years. Haven't had many issues with failures to pass through. The few that have usually knocked the deer clean off of their feet.


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## wildcats

I guess I have been lucky.  I have never had them fail me.....to add I have also never used the 130 gr


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## JTharpe

Use the 130s in my 270 and have never had a problem.


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## HKStoeger

Never had problems. I use 150 gr in 308. My son's share which we sighted in with 130 gr. Expansion has been very good


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## JWarren

I have never shot a deer 5x without exit , but I stopped using the the Core Lokt bullets years ago because of not exiting on too many deer.


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## Doug B.

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.


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## wiggywigg71

I used to use the Corelokts but switched to Winchester silvertip ballistics. I switched due to the amount out lead chrapnel that was left from the shot. This year I switched from winchester to hornady due to it having higher speeds. I am still shooting 130grain but I like the results way better. I never had knock down problems with corelokt just pieces of lead every where.


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## HillbillyJim

Nope...been using them for years.  Used them for years.  Never had a misfire or any other problem.  Shot them in my .308 and now in my .270.  Shot a doe last week.  She ran about 40 yds.  Blood trail looked like someone had painted it on the ground.  Exit hole was LARGE!


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## elfiii

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



You sure will! 

I shoot Winchester Power Points through my Remington 700 in 270. Never had one run more than 50 yds and there is plenty of blood.


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## karoni17

lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag


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## elfiii

karoni17 said:


> lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag



In your humble opinion. Mine and lots of others differs.


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## white1981

they cause me to have a problem with freezer space


_Posted from  Gon.com App  for Android_


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## deadend

karoni17 said:


> lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag



Ignant +P


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## karoni17

i shoot 180gr power points in my 300 and 150gr corelokt in my 7mag  and have made shoulder shots at over 500 yards on both deer and hogs with both rifles and didnt have to track a thing.   I know their are many 270 lovers but it just doesn't compare.


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## deadend

karoni17 said:


> i shoot 180gr power points in my 300 and 150gr corelokt in my 7mag  and have made shoulder shots at over 500 yards on both deer and hogs with both rifles and didnt have to track a thing.   I know their are many 270 lovers but it just doesn't compare.



So you're implying .007" changes the game?  Do tell.


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## Pineywoods

My son had the same experience with the cor lokts not exiting, only with swine on a buddy of mine's ranch.  He went through 40 rounds or so of the 130 grainers, said they rarely exited.  Some of the hogs needed follow-up shots like you describe.  
IMHO the Fusion 130 grainer is the winner of "best bang for the buck".  It has a bonded bullet, and usually provides two holes when you shoot a deer with them.  Most rifles seem to shoot them pretty well too.


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## rosewood

I had been using 150CLs and then went to the range and found out my gun was more accurate with the 130CLs, I am talking 1" vs 1.5".  I can't  hold it that steady in the field anyway, but for some reason thought it mattered.  Shot first deer with 130 and it ran off and never found it.  Went back to the 150s, they always were DRT.  I started reloading using sierra 140 BTSP game kings and shot my first deer a couple of weeks back with it and it was DRT, was a pass through.

I always thought that the ideal bullet would terminate in the target so as to expend all of it's energy in the target.  If it passes through, it might not do enough trauma to dispatch the target, but from the sound of it, the pass throughs are better for an effective dispatch.


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## Big Mike

Shoot Barnes bullets and your problems will be solved. Yes, they are more expensive, but so is shooting an animal 5 times.


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## kmaxwell3

I have shot that bullet out of my Ruger for the last 10 years.  Probably shot at least 25 deer and they were all DRT. Except for 3 of them ran about 40 yards before they fell dead. I shoot all my deer right behind the front shoulder never had a problem with them.


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## karoni17

deadend said:


> So you're implying .007" changes the game?  Do tell.



.007 and 20gr more bullet and alot more powder yes without a doubt it changes the game alot.


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## glynr329

Same here lost more deer with 270 130 grain. That is why I switched cal. Laugh and called me ignorant or whatever just stating facts. No problems before and none since. Son has 270 and we bought the sst 130 or 150 grain I forgot and it did awesome.


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## kmaxwell3

karoni17 said:


> lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag



That's funny because I have a friend who shoots a 300 and has to track and most times shoot them again and with my 270 I dont have that problem! The 300 and 7mm are to me a little to much gun unless you are shooting over 200 yards or more.


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## furtaker

karoni17 said:


> i shoot 180gr power points in my 300 and 150gr corelokt in my 7mag  and have made shoulder shots at over 500 yards on both deer and hogs with both rifles and didnt have to track a thing.   I know their are many 270 lovers but it just doesn't compare.



"Over 500 yards" is a long way.  What do your 200 and 300 yard groups look like with those rifles?  And how do you have them zeroed?


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## TurkeyKiller12

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



You sir may just be an idjit! The .270 is a fine caliber for whitetail deer. Bet your one of those that think your all big and bad because you shoot a 300 mag, blah blah blah!


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## TurkeyKiller12

karoni17 said:


> i shoot 180gr power points in my 300 and 150gr corelokt in my 7mag  and have made shoulder shots at over 500 yards on both deer and hogs with both rifles and didnt have to track a thing.   I know their are many 270 lovers but it just doesn't compare.



Time to roll up the britches legs! It's getting DEEP!


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## papachaz

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



google the name Jack O'Conner and get back to us with that theory of yours.

I've hunted with a .270 for well over 30 years and I have NEVER lost a deer I shot with either of them. I used to hunt with 130 grain, but after studying the ballistics, I switched to the 150 grain bullets. neglible difference in the trajectory, but the 150 holds it's energy much better.

I've used the winchester power points for years and years and with such good success with them, there's really not a reason for me to want to change to any other brand


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## tcarter86

gonna give the barnes ttsx a try in my 270. they shot cloverleafs at the range.

hope to make two holes in a deer using the ttsx.


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## karoni17

deadend said:


> So you're implying .007" changes the game?  Do tell.





papachaz said:


> google the name Jack O'Conner and get back to us with that theory of yours.
> 
> I've hunted with a .270 for well over 30 years and I have NEVER lost a deer I shot with either of them. I used to hunt with 130 grain, but after studying the ballistics, I switched to the 150 grain bullets. neglible difference in the trajectory, but the 150 holds it's energy much better.
> 
> I've used the winchester power points for years and years and with such good success with them, there's really not a reason for me to want to change to any other brand



the 150gr is a much better choice i will agree with that.


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## papachaz

karoni17 said:


> lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag



wrong again. you'll get such a fast pass through on close shots with either of those calibers that you won't get much bullet expansion at all. talking shots under 100 yards here.

honestly speaking, not bashing anyone who wants to shoot one of those cannons, but you couldn't give me one of them if you made it mandatory that I had to keep it. give me one I could trade or sell, sure, but not if I had to keep it


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## Jason Stringer

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



I used a 270 for a couple of years switched to a 7mm never had a problem with the core loc in the 7 mag


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## deadend

Speed = expansion. Fast projectiles expand more than slow ones. End of story. Let's end the wives tale here and now.


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## karoni17

brentus said:


> "Over 500 yards" is a long way.  What do your 200 and 300 yard groups look like with those rifles?  And how do you have them zeroed?



My rem 700 300 is zeroed dead on at 100 i have a leupold 4.5x14-40 with adjustable elavation turret. I have the turret marked for the bullet drop at the diffrent distances .   My grouping with this rifle is pretty tight it has a HART fluted heavy target barrel on it.  A 150gr bullet would have less drop but I jus t like the 180gr knock down power


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## deast1988

Ask the blood hounds which caliber is called on the most? It'll be a .270. Dog trackers love 130gr .270s.


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## roll tide

Its all about shot placement


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## Georgia Hard Hunter

Steyr said:


> Used core lokts for years and never seen a  pass thru that's why i switched to Barnes Triple Shock...they plum nasty.



Ive killed dozens of deer with Core- lokts and have always had pass thru except for 1 tuff old buck in Alabama


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## buckmaster4218

I have killed many deer with a core lokt and lost 3 with a core lokt with a 270.  Had one drop in its tracks and layed there for 15 minutes then got up and never found it.  I have found that a 130 grain winchester bst or nosler bt is best in my 270.  Have killed around 15 with them and 14 of the 15 havent taken a step.  As a few have said, I have seen my uncle shoot the powerpoints out of his and has had great success.


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## Flaustin1

deadend said:


> Thats just ignant.



Not really, either its true or most of the guys i hunt with that shoot a .270 cant shoot.  Ive tracked more than a few shot with a .270 that left little to no blood.


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## joe7695

I shoot the Winchester Power Points, and have had no problems with them.


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## sorrydog

BigAl5601 said:


> I shot Remington 150 Grain core lokt ammo in .308 for years and was never satisfied. Had to track quite a few deer farther than I wanted to. Even had a couple I never found. Switched to Winchester 150 grain power point and it has been like night and day. Most deer only make 20-30 yards if they don't drop where I shoot them. I am 100% satisfied with the Winchester rounds but wouldn't hunt with the Remington again.



Me too.  I changed over a couple of times to Remington 150 grain and had the same issues in my 308. I had to track way to many deer and lost several.  I can only recall one deer lost in over 30 years of hunting with 308, 150 grain Winchester.   Just shot a doe two weeks ago 150 yards standing straight at me.  Aim for center mass.  Hit a little low and to the left. Ran about 30 yards and dropped.  I learn my lesson years ago.  No need to change if it’s working.


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## sorrydog

Flaustin1 said:


> Not really, either its true or most of the guys i hunt with that shoot a .270 cant shoot.  Ive tracked more than a few shot with a .270 that left little to no blood.



Bought a nice Ruger M77 270 years ago.  Tried several diffent caliburs over the years.  Always gone right-back to my 308.  I've giving-up on changing.  My 308 has never let me down except the one time when I got up in the stand and a big buck came about 30 yards from me and i pulled the trigger--CLICK.  I forgot to put a bullet in the chamber!  He ran off. I still dream about that one.


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## Taporsnap77

Im in agreement the 270 shoots a bit fast for that bullet if she was close your bullet possibly exploded. I reload hornady sst for my sako 30/06 an have had this happen twice blowing entire front shoulder off and not finding deer. The shot was 25 yds and was traveling too fast I dnt ever have this issue with my 45/70 or 30/30. Or my bow lol


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## Mossy78

I've used the 130gr Core Lokt for years in my .270, always had a good blood trail and never had one run more than 50 yards.
This year I switched to Winchester Power Max 130gr, it's a pointed hollow point, shot a doe yesterday evening at a little over 200 yards right behind the shoulder, where she stood there was a 2' diameter blood spot and she stumbled 10yrs before piling up.
These things are down right nasty! left about a 2" exit wound and Ray Charles could follow the blood trail...


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## glynr329

It is funny ask every hunter which is the best and most will say the cal. they shoot. If you hunt enough and use different cal. most will hate some and love others. Me personally have had issues with 270 and maybe the gun just did not suite me. I hunt power lines and shot long distances. I am perfectly happy with what I shot now. Thanks god we have different cal. right. My ex's daddy would always argue that his 22-250 was the best gun in the world. So we argued civil all the time and guess what changed nothing. As a matter of fact I took a young girl yesterday and guess what gun she had? His 22-250 funny right. So which gun is the best the one that puts your big buck on the ground.


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## sorrydog

glynr329 said:


> It is funny ask every hunter which is the best and most will say the cal. they shoot. If you hunt enough and use different cal. most will hate some and love others. Me personally have had issues with 270 and maybe the gun just did not suite me. I hunt power lines and shot long distances. I am perfectly happy with what I shot now. Thanks god we have different cal. right. My ex's daddy would always argue that his 22-250 was the best gun in the world. So we argued civil all the time and guess what changed nothing. As a matter of fact I took a young girl yesterday and guess what gun she had? His 22-250 funny right. So which gun is the best the one that puts your big buck on the ground.



Yep.  It's what fits you best.  There is no one-gun-fits all when it comes to deer hunting.  I'm a woods hunter.  100 shots are not the norm for me.  The one two weeks ago was way down a loggin trail.  150 yards wasn't something my old 788 308 was use to.  But she did the job.


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## RTWILLIAMS71

I had that problem, then i started using winchester and my problem went away. Will never ever buy another box of remington shells from wal-mart or a small time business.


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## 308fan

i have yet to recover a Barnes TTSX from the 5 or so deer ive killed with them out of my 308

i also shot a hog in florida and didnt recover the bullet

if you want an exit try the Barnes

.270 Winchester 	130 Grain 	TTSX 		

Regular Price: 
    $41.99	

Sale Price: 
    $38.99

In Stock
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Barn...barnes+270&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products


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## rosewood

deast1988 said:


> Ask the blood hounds which caliber is called on the most? It'll be a .270. Dog trackers love 130gr .270s.



Reckon that is because there are a lot of people out there that shoot them?


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## Horns

I will add my 2 cent about the 270. I have a model 7600 and it loves 130 grain Winchester PP. I would not take Remington bullets if they were given to me. It is all about personal preference.


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## Buford_Dawg

*I have had great success with Corelokts*

Some people swear by them (me included).  Others dont care for them.  Also, I shot the 270 for many years.  Killed alot of deer with it.


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## Headsortails

A double-lung or heart shot deer is not going far no matter what you shoot it with. Many of the deer lost at just bad shots.


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## MIKE RAINEY

Thanks for all the input! If you will notice 4 of the five shots were from then heart to the lungs and those shots were made on the run. If she would have ran out of site, because of no exit there for there was no blood. Thankfully she fell in site, but I think that there will be a switch back to 150 grain!


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## declemen

If I only knew how many deer I have killed with my 270, i ike the Winchester Supreme Ballistic Tip,and I like some of the Hornady bullets and the Federal Supreme BTSP, it may be the bullet that you had the prob with, but it is not the caliber


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## Canyon

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



This^^^ - I have never personally owned a 270 for this reason.  I have friends that have had the same issue as the OP stated. They were shooting winchester and had the same issue.  I shoot a 7mm in 150g Remington CL and they dont move an inch.


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## miles58

This thread is dumber than a box of rocks and about half of the opinions voiced here as well.

If you can't kill a deer inside 100 yards with a 130 grain core-lokt with one shot, it's on you and not the ammo it really is that simple.

If you want complete penetration from a bullet each and every time, use Barnes bullets.

If you think a .270 is any better or worse than any other caliber, .243 or larger for killing deer you lack the experience to make a credible judgement.  Some calibers might handle extended range a little better or worse, but by and large there is not enough difference to worry about.

Where do people come up with these dipwad ideas?

I have absolutely no standards when it comes to calibers I will shoot deer with.  I am a sl*t who'll shoot anything and have done so.

Choose an resonably appropriate bullet and put it where it belongs and Bambi will die.  Choose the best bullet possible and do a less than adequate job inserting it into Bambi and THAT is how you wind up with problems.  NO CALIBER OR BULLET IS GOING TO COMPENSATE FOR YOUR MISTAKES IF YOU ARE NOT SO CLOSE TO RIGHT THAT IT LIKELY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.  I put bullets a little off intentionally once in a while to see what they do.  I open and butcher ever single deer I shoot.  I can think of two deer I have not gutted in fifty odd years of shooting deer.

In point of fact most of my experience has been that people who carry the attitude that a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - gun with a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - scope and cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ammo usually are too bleeping cheap to shoot enough to make themselves competent with a rifle.  That IMO is the real problem.

Dave


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## 308fan

What he said....


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## Redleaf

the 130 grain .277 bullet is too small and too soft to give the kind of reliability I want for deer.


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## deadend

miles58 said:


> This thread is dumber than a box of rocks and about half of the opinions voiced here as well.
> 
> If you can't kill a deer inside 100 yards with a 130 grain core-lokt with one shot, it's on you and not the ammo it really is that simple.
> 
> If you want complete penetration from a bullet each and every time, use Barnes bullets.
> 
> If you think a .270 is any better or worse than any other caliber, .243 or larger for killing deer you lack the experience to make a credible judgement.  Some calibers might handle extended range a little better or worse, but by and large there is not enough difference to worry about.
> 
> Where do people come up with these dipwad ideas?
> 
> I have absolutely no standards when it comes to calibers I will shoot deer with.  I am a sl*t who'll shoot anything and have done so.
> 
> Choose an resonably appropriate bullet and put it where it belongs and Bambi will die.  Choose the best bullet possible and do a less than adequate job inserting it into Bambi and THAT is how you wind up with problems.  NO CALIBER OR BULLET IS GOING TO COMPENSATE FOR YOUR MISTAKES IF YOU ARE NOT SO CLOSE TO RIGHT THAT IT LIKELY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.  I put bullets a little off intentionally once in a while to see what they do.  I open and butcher ever single deer I shoot.  I can think of two deer I have not gutted in fifty odd years of shooting deer.
> 
> In point of fact most of my experience has been that people who carry the attitude that a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - gun with a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - scope and cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ammo usually are too bleeping cheap to shoot enough to make themselves competent with a rifle.  That IMO is the real problem.
> 
> Dave


Yep. Folks are still spouting garbage about bullets traveling too fast to expand and other clueless drivel. I've yet to lose an animal after all these years when placing a bullet in vitals. Slow bullets, fast bullets, and in betweeners all work but hey, you've gotta blame something besides poor shooting.


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## Taporsnap77

i agree bullet placement is the first key ,but if you think it is garbage the fact that some frangible bullets traveling at a high speed dont penetrate as well then you are mis informed my friend.  real world shots and bad placement happen some bullets do perform better than others in that case! A core lokt is sure good enough to kill one i agree. There are other bullets in a bad scenario that would perform better is my only argument. If a bow will kill one any gun will if placed right.


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## Buzz

miles58 said:


> This thread is dumber than a box of rocks and about half of the opinions voiced here as well.
> 
> If you can't kill a deer inside 100 yards with a 130 grain core-lokt with one shot, it's on you and not the ammo it really is that simple.
> 
> If you want complete penetration from a bullet each and every time, use Barnes bullets.
> 
> If you think a .270 is any better or worse than any other caliber, .243 or larger for killing deer you lack the experience to make a credible judgement.  Some calibers might handle extended range a little better or worse, but by and large there is not enough difference to worry about.
> 
> Where do people come up with these dipwad ideas?
> 
> I have absolutely no standards when it comes to calibers I will shoot deer with.  I am a sl*t who'll shoot anything and have done so.
> 
> Choose an resonably appropriate bullet and put it where it belongs and Bambi will die.  Choose the best bullet possible and do a less than adequate job inserting it into Bambi and THAT is how you wind up with problems.  NO CALIBER OR BULLET IS GOING TO COMPENSATE FOR YOUR MISTAKES IF YOU ARE NOT SO CLOSE TO RIGHT THAT IT LIKELY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.  I put bullets a little off intentionally once in a while to see what they do.  I open and butcher ever single deer I shoot.  I can think of two deer I have not gutted in fifty odd years of shooting deer.
> 
> In point of fact most of my experience has been that people who carry the attitude that a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - gun with a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - scope and cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ammo usually are too bleeping cheap to shoot enough to make themselves competent with a rifle.  That IMO is the real problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadend said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Folks are still spouting garbage about bullets traveling too fast to expand and other clueless drivel. I've yet to lose an animal after all these years when placing a bullet in vitals. Slow bullets, fast bullets, and in betweeners all work but hey, you've gotta blame something besides poor shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


I can't disagree with either of you guys one bit.    I must admit this forum can really give me the chuckles at times and make me head palm many other times.


----------



## deadend

Humorous that ballisticians can never make bullets "pencil through" or not expand at high speeds in ballistic gel but every other shot in Georgia zips right through a deer like tissue paper. Must be a geographic oddity.


----------



## Omega

deadend said:


> So you're implying .007" changes the game?  Do tell.



Actually, that would be .031"  But I'm with you on that little bit difference in circumfrences doesn't change the game - just plain silly talk 



tcarter86 said:


> gonna give the barnes ttsx a try in my 270. they shot cloverleafs at the range.
> 
> hope to make two holes in a deer using the ttsx.



I handload the barnes in my 25-06, 270, and 300 WM - an excellent bullet choice (see last comments as to why I use them now).



Taporsnap77 said:


> Im in agreement the 270 shoots a bit fast for that bullet if she was close your bullet possibly exploded.



I think this is ultimately the reason for the failures with the Core-Lokts. Do they kill the deer - of course. Do they hold together at extreme speeds when you're shooting a deer at 15-40 yards, likely not.


My only bad experience with the Core-Lokts came when I shot a buck chasing a doe that ran up to within 15 yards when I was carrying a 300 WM shooting a 150 gr core-lokt. Velocities are very similar to that of a 270 although carrying a little more energy. So I shot the buck at 15 yards, in the rain, and watched him run off. When I cleaned him there was an entrance hole, probably very close to .308 in diameter but no exit. The bullet, however, did a very effective job. It went in and litterally expanded ALL of its energy inside the deer and exploded. I found bits of the bullet while cleaning, and I do mean SMALL bits. Both shoulders were lost and the bruising went from the front and covered the entire rid cage. The bullet effectively did its job but there was no blood trail, even climbing down moments after the shot (since I watched him go down).

I think the core-lokts work, just not at any close range. I've since switched to something that will hold together - the Barnes TSX. It's absolutely brutal, expands as shown in the pictures, and will leave 2 holes in anything you shoot.


----------



## pcrouch

To the OP, do you have any pics of the other side of that deer so we can see shot placement?


----------



## returntoarchery

I've been using a 270 since 1973 and killed deer with 130 grain bullets from 10 yards to 275 yards. For some unexplained reason the deer never knew I was using a caliber/cartridge/bullet weight that was  ineffective and completely useless as they kept dying with one shot. Stupid deer ought to be more informed and either run off or ask for more than one shot before dying. I just can't understand them being so stupid and inconsiderate.


----------



## lx708

I wonder why people buy into this kind of post. This guy said he shot this deer 5 times 4 of the 5 were in the heart and lungs while on the RUN!!!.... Sorry but i dont believe he is that good of a shot .


----------



## cole9174

Had no problem with my 130 gr core lokt coming out of the muzzle of a 270.... My 1st wall hanger


----------



## returntoarchery

nice buck. another deer that didn't know the hunter was using a cartridge and bullet unsuitable for deer.


----------



## returntoarchery

lx708 said:


> ..... This guy said he shot this deer 5 times 4 of the 5 were in the heart and lungs while on the RUN!!!....



well that would explain it... 4 misses then one lucky shot that connected and another case where the stupid deer didn't know it was shot with an useless cartridge and bullet and died from one shot....


----------



## deadend

Omega said:


> Actually, that would be .031"  But I'm with you on that little bit difference in circumfrences doesn't change the game - just plain silly.


 I went to public school so that's why I thought the difference in .284 and .277 is .007. Who knew it's now .031? My bad.


----------



## rosewood

Omega said:


> Actually, that would be .031"  But I'm with you on that little bit difference in circumfrences doesn't change the game - just plain silly talk





deadend said:


> I went to public school so that's why I thought the difference in .284 and .277 is .007. Who knew it's now .031? My bad.



Yeah, i am with you deadend.  Not sure where (circumfrences) circumference came from either.  .277 and .284 are the diameters of the respective bullets.  You would multiple those numbers by pi to get the circumference.  Still can't figure out where .031 came from.  Even figuring the surface areas, still can't get that number.


----------



## returntoarchery

deadend said:


> I went to public school so that's why I thought the difference in .284 and .277 is .007. Who knew it's now .031? My bad.



New math.


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

pcrouch said:


> To the OP, do you have any pics of the other side of that deer so we can see shot placement?



The pic is the shot placement there was nothing to show on the other side!


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

lx708 said:


> I wonder why people buy into this kind of post. This guy said he shot this deer 5 times 4 of the 5 were in the heart and lungs while on the RUN!!!.... Sorry but i dont believe he is that good of a shot .



Look at the holes I don't lie, and don't care if you believe me or not, call it good or luck, either way the holes don't lie, and you my sir was not there to tell me what happend. It is not the first time that I have killed a deer on the run, with a rifle, and made a good shot. I started this question for info, not to be questioned about, or doughted about my shots!


----------



## lx708

You are better than Good and more than Lucky if you put 4 of 5 in the kill zone on a running deer......


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

lx708 said:


> You are better than Good and more than Lucky if you put 4 of 5 in the kill zone on a running deer......



Call it what you want the evidence is crystal clear!


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

returntoarchery said:


> well that would explain it... 4 misses then one lucky shot that connected and another case where the stupid deer didn't know it was shot with an useless cartridge and bullet and died from one shot....



Check out the holes if you think it was one lucky shot! 4 out of the five were in the heart and lungs and she was running! Could have been luck or good shot placement, I have hunted a long time and killed over a hundred deer in my short life time, not saying that I can shoot, but I normally don't miss or come back to camp eating tag soup!!


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

miles58 said:


> This thread is dumber than a box of rocks and about half of the opinions voiced here as well.
> 
> If you can't kill a deer inside 100 yards with a 130 grain core-lokt with one shot, it's on you and not the ammo it really is that simple.
> 
> If you want complete penetration from a bullet each and every time, use Barnes bullets.
> 
> If you think a .270 is any better or worse than any other caliber, .243 or larger for killing deer you lack the experience to make a credible judgement.  Some calibers might handle extended range a little better or worse, but by and large there is not enough difference to worry about.
> 
> Where do people come up with these dipwad ideas?
> 
> I have absolutely no standards when it comes to calibers I will shoot deer with.  I am a sl*t who'll shoot anything and have done so.
> 
> Choose an resonably appropriate bullet and put it where it belongs and Bambi will die.  Choose the best bullet possible and do a less than adequate job inserting it into Bambi and THAT is how you wind up with problems.  NO CALIBER OR BULLET IS GOING TO COMPENSATE FOR YOUR MISTAKES IF YOU ARE NOT SO CLOSE TO RIGHT THAT IT LIKELY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.  I put bullets a little off intentionally once in a while to see what they do.  I open and butcher ever single deer I shoot.  I can think of two deer I have not gutted in fifty odd years of shooting deer.
> 
> In point of fact most of my experience has been that people who carry the attitude that a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - gun with a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - scope and cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ammo usually are too bleeping cheap to shoot enough to make themselves competent with a rifle.  That IMO is the real problem.
> 
> Dave



Let me explain somthing to you I am not cheap hunting! I can shoot a rifle or shot gun with any one, I simply ask a question about a certain grain bullet! I have killed deer for years, maybe not as many years as you, who knows. But you don't have to shoot guns everyday to be good with them it all comes natural. Some people don't need practice. I agree that the more you shoot the better you may become, but I have never had a problem. I won't shoot 130 grain bullets again, because of what happened, but there is NO problem with a 270 or how I shoot!


----------



## miles58

MIKE RAINEY said:


> Let me explain somthing to you I am not cheap hunting! I can shoot a rifle or shot gun with any one, I simply ask a question about a certain grain bullet! I have killed deer for years, maybe not as many years as you, who knows. But you don't have to shoot guns everyday to be good with them it all comes natural. Some people don't need practice. I agree that the more you shoot the better you may become, but I have never had a problem. I won't shoot 130 grain bullets again, because of what happened, but there is NO problem with a 270 or how I shoot!



I am one of the best shooters I ever saw.  I have seen a number of shooters as good or better than me.  Any shooter in that class I have ever known, including me, has needed practice.  A lot of practice.  I have emptied a model 12 on a rise and killed seven birds in a little over a second.  Even today, I still put a few thousand rounds down range in a year with my rifles.

Your story doesn't sound right to me.  There won't be much resistance inside the chest after the first shot.  None of your shots are going through much bone or muscle.  Unless the ammo was defective, 130 grain core-lokt bullets will normally go through one or both shoulders and then exit.  Five not making it through just ribs takes some more explaining.  For me to believe it, a lot more.

Dave


----------



## deadend

I probably shot 2k rounds practicing last year and could've used 2k more. Have yet to see a man not benefit from burning primers.


----------



## EightpointbuckDown

I was the one that skin the deer and there was no holes in the other side


----------



## EightpointbuckDown

I was the one that skin the deer and there was no holes in the other side


----------



## lagrangedave

Maybe Remington needs a re-call. Bullets could be defective. New Marlins definetly are.


----------



## lx708

There is no trauma around 3 of those bullet holes. If the OP is so sure of his shooting ability then he would have known that the first shot was fatal. No need to shoot 4 more times. I dont doubt that there is a number of hunters or shooters on this forum that can hit a running deer, but 4 in the vital zone.


----------



## SCDieselDawg

Let me suggest simply upping from 130s to 150s.  This doe was shot between 50-70 yds with a .270 using 150 gr Federal Power Shoks (Blue box from wal-mart).   This is the exit hole.


----------



## rosewood

Let me throw my hypothesis in the mix.  From my years of hunting, the majority of the deer I shoot at long range are DRT.  The deer that I have had run off were usually 60 yards or less.  Some say that it is because "the bullet was going to fast and blew right through".  My current belief is that on the close range shots, the gun shot scares the deer.  When the deer is scared, it has an immediate jump in adrenaline.  That adrenaline fuels the deer to run off.  On longer shots, the deer are not spooked by the gun shot and are just wondering what that burning in their side is but don't immediately see the need to run so the adrenaline does not kick in and from the sudden drop in blood pressure, they are DRT.  The deer shot at close range with the adrenaline boost are going to die and are as good as dead, they just have enough energy from the adrenaline to run off a ways.  The OPs deer was dead from the first shot.  The remaining shots may have been pointless and did not speed up the dieing process, the deer just had to run out of adrenaline.  This is much like a drug addict that takes 15 rounds from the police officer before he goes down, if he was sober, he would have hit the ground on the 1st shot.  I also believe it varies from deer to deer, some may be used to gun shots and it may not spook them as much.

I do believe that the 150gr bullets do a better job of DRT than the 130s do.


----------



## glynr329

I sit and read some of the things that some write and it is amazing. It is ashamed that a grown man can not ask another group of grown men a question with out arguing. I am smarter than you. I can shoot better than you. I have a better gun than you. WOW
If you are that great you do not have to brag on yourself. Try and be positive and help a fellow hunter.

I do not care who you are if you hit a running deer in the vitals 4 out of 5 you are better than lucky. You are a great shot and lucky.

Try the sst 130 grain did great on my sons buck. That deer was nasty on the inside.


----------



## kbuck1

lx708 said:


> There is no trauma around 3 of those bullet holes. If the OP is so sure of his shooting ability then he would have known that the first shot was fatal. No need to shoot 4 more times. I dont doubt that there is a number of hunters or shooters on this forum that can hit a running deer, but 4 in the vital zone.



what he said..   If those other shots were made when the deer was alive there would be bruising aroung each entrance hole like the one shot that you can see. Now if you prop up a dead deer and shoot him trying to see why the first bullet didnt achieve a complete pass through that would result in entrance holes with no bruising or trauma like the other three shots pictured.  just my opinion


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

miles58 said:


> I am one of the best shooters I ever saw.  I have seen a number of shooters as good or better than me.  Any shooter in that class I have ever known, including me, has needed practice.  A lot of practice.  I have emptied a model 12 on a rise and killed seven birds in a little over a second.  Even today, I still put a few thousand rounds down range in a year with my rifles.
> 
> Your story doesn't sound right to me.  There won't be much resistance inside the chest after the first shot.  None of your shots are going through much bone or muscle.  Unless the ammo was defective, 130 grain core-lokt bullets will normally go through one or both shoulders and then exit.  Five not making it through just ribs takes some more explaining.  For me to believe it, a lot more.
> 
> Dave



I don't have to shoot a few thousand rounds a year to know that I can shoot a rifle, it is a natural act. Either you have or you don't! I DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO KNOW I CAN SHOOT A RIFLE! As Eight point down said who skinned this deer there was know exit wounds, I cain't explain it I just ask a question, now to get this redecule about my shot placement or my abillity of shooting I did not ask for you to believe me, some people tell hunting stories, you can ask anyone, including eight point down if I tell you something it is the truth i have know reason to lie! Regardless if you can't give a reasonable answer to the first question posted on this thread DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I DONE WRONG! I bring meat to the freezer every year in a QDM club, that we have had for 35 years, How many can say they have been in the same club for 35 years?


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

glynr329 said:


> I sit and read some of the things that some write and it is amazing. It is ashamed that a grown man can not ask another group of grown men a question with out arguing. I am smarter than you. I can shoot better than you. I have a better gun than you. WOW
> If you are that great you do not have to brag on yourself. Try and be positive and help a fellow hunter.
> 
> I do not care who you are if you hit a running deer in the vitals 4 out of 5 you are better than lucky. You are a great shot and lucky.
> 
> Try the sst 130 grain did great on my sons buck. That deer was nasty on the inside.


Thank You for agreeing with me it was luck and a very little bit of skill! I did what I had to do to put meat in the freezer! Thanks for your support!!!!!


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

lx708 said:


> There is no trauma around 3 of those bullet holes. If the OP is so sure of his shooting ability then he would have known that the first shot was fatal. No need to shoot 4 more times. I dont doubt that there is a number of hunters or shooters on this forum that can hit a running deer, but 4 in the vital zone.



I don't know how long you have been hunting, but i was taught if a deer is still on his feet, buck or doe, you shoot till that deer is down! I did  not know that the deer had been hit that many times, so that is the reason I kept shooting! Maybe you can tell those of us on the forum how YOU know exactly when a deer is shot, other than when it the falls. If a deer is still walking or running will YOU still shoot at at?


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

kbuck1 said:


> what he said..   If those other shots were made when the deer was alive there would be bruising aroung each entrance hole like the one shot that you can see. Now if you prop up a dead deer and shoot him trying to see why the first bullet didnt achieve a complete pass through that would result in entrance holes with no bruising or trauma like the other three shots pictured.  just my opinion



I can promise you each of those shots were made when the deer was alive. You would be a idiot to think that I would shoot a dead deer! And as far as bruising I think you have watched to much C.S.I. ,and need to start doing alittle more hunting and kill deer and look at the wounds that actually happen!


----------



## whchunter

*Rem express corelok.........150 grain*

I shot a buck that weighted about 170 Saturday. The shot was about 100 yards. Was using a Ruger M77 in 308. The deer dropped in it's tracks with a shot ot the heart. The bullet was found just under the skin on the other side. Would have thought it would have went thru.


----------



## lx708

Tell us the story. Hunting stories are always good.


----------



## shane256

I haven't shot twice at a deer in longer than I can remember. Core-Lokts have worked (shot OK and killed deer) in every cartridge I've ever used to kill deer. Shot placement is #1. I tend to use heavy for game bullets, though, in faster rifles to keep impact velocities in the bullet specs .


----------



## Buzz

If I didn't see your story, I would assume the other hits were from a copper plated buckshot load with the exception of the one with the bruising.    I can't say that I've ever seen a fast shooting rifle impact have that little trauma, let alone multiple shots and I've cleaned / skinned and helped others clean many many deer.   I've seen some occasional weird things with a kill but never multiple oddities like that.   

While they aren't my favorite bullet - I've never seen a CoreLoct perform in that way, quite the opposite actually.    I've killed deer with them in a 6.5x55 Swede, 7x57mm Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag.     I've never had one fail to exit and usually there is a lot of bloodshot on both sides and soup in the middle.    I personally like a tougher bullet when muzzle velocities are in the range of what the .270 Win generates.


----------



## papachaz

deadend said:


> Speed = expansion. Fast projectiles expand more than slow ones. End of story. Let's end the wives tale here and now.



that's just wrong. there's a LOT more to the expansion of the a bullet than just the speed. and my statement clearly said I was talking about shots 100 yards and under. and I didn't say no expansion, go back and read it again....

 You shoot the more common super magnum bullets at the average sized georgia deer in the vitals, no bones hit other than ribs and you're not going to get as good of bullet expansion. I have personally seen the results of one of my best hunting buddies and his 7mm magnum (which he got rid of because of exactly what I and others have said). I have personally seen it happen. not an old wives tale at all, I have personally seen it. wish I had pics, but I'm talking about hunts from before the digital camera age


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

Buzz said:


> If I didn't see your story, I would assume the other hits were from a copper plated buckshot load with the exception of the one with the bruising.    I can't say that I've ever seen a fast shooting rifle impact have that little trauma, let alone multiple shots and I've cleaned / skinned and helped others clean many many deer.   I've seen some occasional weird things with a kill but never multiple oddities like that.
> 
> While they aren't my favorite bullet - I've never seen a CoreLoct perform in that way, quite the opposite actually.    I've killed deer with them in a 6.5x55 Swede, 7x57mm Mauser, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag.     I've never had one fail to exit and usually there is a lot of bloodshot on both sides and soup in the middle.    I personally like a tougher bullet when muzzle velocities are in the range of what the .270 Win generates.



Thanks for the input the deer started at 20 yards up to 40 on the last shot that is why I ask the question. I don't know what happened, thats why i asked then  I get some good comments then I get alot of these smart a^# comments on how I shoot or that they don't believe what I said. It seems to me that this is a good place to argue. There is few people on here that actually want to help, I thought that all hunters should try and help each other out. There isn't as many left as there used to be!


----------



## papachaz

MIKE RAINEY said:


> I don't have to shoot a few thousand rounds a year to know that I can shoot a rifle, it is a natural act. Either you have or you don't! I DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO KNOW I CAN SHOOT A RIFLE! As Eight point down said who skinned this deer there was know exit wounds, I cain't explain it I just ask a question, now to get this redecule about my shot placement or my abillity of shooting I did not ask for you to believe me, some people tell hunting stories, you can ask anyone, including eight point down if I tell you something it is the truth i have know reason to lie! Regardless if you can't give a reasonable answer to the first question posted on this thread DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I DONE WRONG! I bring meat to the freezer every year in a QDM club, that we have had for 35 years, How many can say they have been in the same club for 35 years?


your original post was about the core loct bullets. those are designed for rapid mushrooming, therefore they are less likely to give a passthrough. bullet design has so much more to do with expansion than speed or caliber even.

you can go here to study bullet design: http://www.zimbio.com/Hunting+And+Shooting/articles/KYf_gb3Z3k1/Choosing+a+Hunting+Bullet


----------



## deadend

papachaz said:


> that's just wrong. there's a LOT more to the expansion of the a bullet than just the speed. and my statement clearly said I was talking about shots 100 yards and under. and I didn't say no expansion, go back and read it again....
> 
> You shoot the more common super magnum bullets at the average sized georgia deer in the vitals, no bones hit other than ribs and you're not going to get as good of bullet expansion. I have personally seen the results of one of my best hunting buddies and his 7mm magnum (which he got rid of because of exactly what I and others have said). I have personally seen it happen. not an old wives tale at all, I have personally seen it. wish I had pics, but I'm talking about hunts from before the digital camera age



If Dave Emary, Bryan Litz, and nearly every other professional ballistician drawing breath disagree with you on terminal ballistics I'll defer to their professional opinion.  Show me one study supporting your hypothesis and I'll supp on crow tomorrow night.


----------



## miles58

MIKE RAINEY said:


> I don't have to shoot a few thousand rounds a year to know that I can shoot a rifle, it is a natural act. Either you have or you don't! I DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO KNOW I CAN SHOOT A RIFLE! As Eight point down said who skinned this deer there was know exit wounds, I cain't explain it I just ask a question, now to get this redecule about my shot placement or my abillity of shooting I did not ask for you to believe me, some people tell hunting stories, you can ask anyone, including eight point down if I tell you something it is the truth i have know reason to lie! Regardless if you can't give a reasonable answer to the first question posted on this thread DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I DONE WRONG! I bring meat to the freezer every year in a QDM club, that we have had for 35 years, How many can say they have been in the same club for 35 years?



You are not making yourself more believable.  I am not ready to believe a 130 grain won't go through a deer that doesn't go 100 lbs on the hoof the first shot, but four more???  Especially without hitting anything substantial for muscle and bone.

Core-lokt bullets are bonded core bullets and they hang together decently well.  They do not come undone in any kind of normal situation without hitting a lot of heavy bone.

It would appear you need some serious help figuring out what you done wrong.  You appear to have done something that some of us find borders on miraculous if true.   BTDT got the T-shirt.

One 130 grain .270 core-lokt will reduce the chest contents to mush. creating a pneumo-thrax in the process meaning that the next bullets in have air space now to go through without all that tough lung tissue(sarcasm). 

Bluntly, something wasn't what you thought it was or you are not telling us the whole story.  That's what I think.

Dave


----------



## deadend

Agreed. I've put them through both shoulders of many large pigs with hate in my heart and discontent in my mind and they never did such things.


----------



## Ohoopee Tusker

I skipped through some of the gibberish on this thread so I apologize if this has been answered. Are those the only rounds out of that box of ammo that you have killed a deer with? I ask because it may be that the box was loaded with a lower amount of powder. Maybe you can take some of the remaining ammo and see how much powder is inside? Every deer I've shot with core-lokt have been pass throughs.


----------



## miles58

rosewood said:


> Let me throw my hypothesis in the mix.  From my years of hunting, the majority of the deer I shoot at long range are DRT.  The deer that I have had run off were usually 60 yards or less.  Some say that it is because "the bullet was going to fast and blew right through".  My current belief is that on the close range shots, the gun shot scares the deer.  When the deer is scared, it has an immediate jump in adrenaline.  That adrenaline fuels the deer to run off.  On longer shots, the deer are not spooked by the gun shot and are just wondering what that burning in their side is but don't immediately see the need to run so the adrenaline does not kick in and from the sudden drop in blood pressure, they are DRT.  The deer shot at close range with the adrenaline boost are going to die and are as good as dead, they just have enough energy from the adrenaline to run off a ways.  The OPs deer was dead from the first shot.  The remaining shots may have been pointless and did not speed up the dieing process, the deer just had to run out of adrenaline.  This is much like a drug addict that takes 15 rounds from the police officer before he goes down, if he was sober, he would have hit the ground on the 1st shot.  I also believe it varies from deer to deer, some may be used to gun shots and it may not spook them as much.
> 
> I do believe that the 150gr bullets do a better job of DRT than the 130s do.



You do realize that that with a decent chest shot the blood pressure drops to zero almost instantly and that any adrenaline released is going nowhere without blood pressure to move it?  Right?  Also, the difference between a fifty yard shot and a 200 yard shot is little more than a third of a  second's worth of sound travel time, meaning the difference in the adrenaline timing is almost nothing, and when you consider the difference in bullet flight time  it's actually much less yet.

Just sayin'

Dave


----------



## miles58

papachaz said:


> your original post was about the core loct bullets. those are designed for rapid mushrooming, therefore they are less likely to give a passthrough. bullet design has so much more to do with expansion than speed or caliber even.
> 
> you can go here to study bullet design: http://www.zimbio.com/Hunting+And+Shooting/articles/KYf_gb3Z3k1/Choosing+a+Hunting+Bullet



Core-lokt bullets are bonded core bullets designed for penetration.

Dave


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

Ohoopee Tusker said:


> I skipped through some of the gibberish on this thread so I apologize if this has been answered. Are those the only rounds out of that box of ammo that you have killed a deer with? I ask because it may be that the box was loaded with a lower amount of powder. Maybe you can take some of the remaining ammo and see how much powder is inside? Every deer I've shot with core-lokt have been pass throughs.



Yes I changed from 150 grain to 130 this year and that is the first deer this year with that bullet. I will go back to 150 tomorrow!


----------



## MIKE RAINEY

miles58 said:


> You are not making yourself more believable.  I am not ready to believe a 130 grain won't go through a deer that doesn't go 100 lbs on the hoof the first shot, but four more???  Especially without hitting anything substantial for muscle and bone.
> 
> Core-lokt bullets are bonded core bullets and they hang together decently well.  They do not come undone in any kind of normal situation without hitting a lot of heavy bone.
> 
> It would appear you need some serious help figuring out what you done wrong.  You appear to have done something that some of us find borders on miraculous if true.   BTDT got the T-shirt.
> 
> One 130 grain .270 core-lokt will reduce the chest contents to mush. creating a pneumo-thrax in the process meaning that the next bullets in have air space now to go through without all that tough lung tissue(sarcasm).
> 
> Bluntly, something wasn't what you thought it was or you are not telling us the whole story.  That's what I think.
> 
> Dave



I am sorry if you don't believe me but what I said is the truth. AS eight point down said he skinned the deer I have never had this happen to me before, thats why I ask the question! I am just trying to figure out what happened.


----------



## miles58

MIKE RAINEY said:


> I am sorry if you don't believe me but what I said is the truth. AS eight point down said he skinned the deer I have never had this happen to me before, thats why I ask the question! I am just trying to figure out what happened.



I could believe this happening with 90 grain bullets in a .270 because they are very fragile.  You need to produce the five 130 grain core-lokt bullets out of this deer.  Photograph them and weight them.  If they match up to what core-lokt bullets do then you have something to discuss.  If all you can find is pieces they were not core-lokt bullets.

Show me the beef.

Dave


----------



## Balvarik

My job at Federal Cartridge is testing ammunition as a "Ballistician".

Remington makes a Core-Lokt and a Bonded Core-Lokt.

We test against the competitors bullets/ammunition when we do our "Bench mark" testing.

270win with 130grain Core-Lokt's work just great on Ponsford Prairie whitetail(and timbers too  )...

Mike


----------



## BowHard

I know im coming in late on this thread but oh well. I started using a .270 when I was 14 since then I have bought a 2nd 270 and besides a few clean misses I have never lost a deer with a cor-lokt or winchester silvertip ballistic. And yes 130 grain fellas. I do get pass thrus and massive damage at shots under 50 yards and also at shots over 100 +++. Only once did I have to put an extra bullet into a deer and it was a spike that I hit high at 250 yards. 
So an bullet/grain/caliber will kill a deer even those billys and willys who shoot the ol .22 cal


----------



## Mr Long Beard

LMFAO at the guy who thinks a 270 caliber (27 cal) bullet is the trouble.. The problems you  and your friends have seen are due to gun, scope, user, and bullet problems.. not the caliber of a bullet...

A good buddy of mine who tracks deer (hundreds) .. up to number 38 this year so far I believe; says 9 times out of 10 the deer he is tracking was shot with a core-lokt... which is what I youst to use.

The core-lokt bullet will do as much damage if not more than the best situated round for a certain gun, amy given shot - however, the core-lokt, too often, performs in a unsatisfactory manner.. which is the problem.. switch rounds.. horndady or winchester accubonds are what i suggest.. aim for that shoulder, drop em where they stand.. ive grown pretty accustomed to it


----------



## kbuck1

I think everyone is missing the obvious.  How can somebody shoot 5 accurately  times at a running whitetail before that deer can cover 20 yards. It would be pretty tough to do with even a semi auto 22 longrifle. Let alone a high powered rifle with that much muzzle jump


----------



## returntoarchery

MIKE RAINEY said:


> Check out the holes if you think it was one lucky shot! 4 out of the five were in the heart and lungs and she was running! Could have been luck or good shot placement, I have hunted a long time and killed over a hundred deer in my short life time, not saying that I can shoot, but I normally don't miss or come back to camp eating tag soup!!



I stand corrected. Didn't see the holes.... 

Never shot Core-Loks at game. Have almost exclusively used Sierra GameKing SPBT #1820 130 gr... handloads. Never had an issue with killing stuff with those. Only non pass throughs have been diagonal longitudinal shots front to back with nice mushroomed bullet under skin on the off side. DRT. 

Have chrono'ed Rem 130 gr Core-Loks in a 24" barrel and 26" barrel and was surprised they were under 2900 fps.


----------



## Steyr

tcarter86 said:


> gonna give the barnes ttsx a try in my 270. they shot cloverleafs at the range.
> 
> hope to make two holes in a deer using the ttsx.




Wise choice....game over.


----------



## miles58

Balvarik said:


> My job at Federal Cartridge is testing ammunition as a "Ballistician".
> 
> Remington makes a Core-Lokt and a Bonded Core-Lokt.
> 
> We test against the competitors bullets/ammunition when we do our "Bench mark" testing.
> 
> 270win with 130grain Core-Lokt's work just great on Ponsford Prairie whitetail(and timbers too  )...
> 
> Mike



Mike!!!

I thought you died and went to heaven!  Good to see you back!

You have any thoughts on how a bullet that will penetrate 1200 pounds of moose wont go through a 70 pound doe without an inch of tallow all the way around her?  I could see one bullet.  Stuff happens sometimes.  Even if the first one didn't blow out the lungs and basically empty the chest a person would have to believe at least that the next one would make it through.  Let alone five not making it.  When their does are the size of our late fawns this just doesn't work for me.

Dave


----------



## Omega

deadend said:


> I went to public school so that's why I thought the difference in .284 and .277 is .007. Who knew it's now .031? My bad.





rosewood said:


> Yeah, i am with you deadend.  Not sure where (circumfrences) circumference came from either.  .277 and .284 are the diameters of the respective bullets.  You would multiple those numbers by pi to get the circumference.  Still can't figure out where .031 came from.  Even figuring the surface areas, still can't get that number.



My apologies deadend. You were referencing the 7mm WM from the post you quoted and I saw the 300WM and didn't consider the 7mm (for whatever reason). My math really works, I promise, otherwise all those hand rolled TSX's might have already blown in my face


----------



## Hairtrigger

MIKE RAINEY said:


> I can promise you each of those shots were made when the deer was alive. You would be a idiot to think that I would shoot a dead deer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I shot a dead deer once..with every bullet I had. He fell and when he did, I could not see that his rack wrapped around the sapling next to him and propped his head up. He appeared to be in the bedded down position.Thought that joker was alive and I kept pumping them in him..haha
> 
> Back on this subject...My buddy is having same problem with this type and grain bullet.
Click to expand...


----------



## shane256

miles58 said:


> Core-lokt bullets are bonded core bullets designed for penetration.
> 
> Dave



No, they aren't. Regular green box Core-Lokts are cup-n-core bullets. There is a Core-Lokt brand bonded bullet but it's called Premier Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded and it's a bonded bullet (obviously).


----------



## miles58

> MIKE RAINEY @ Georgia Outdoor News Forum mrainey88@ymail.com
> 
> 9:41 PM (11 hours ago)
> 
> to me
> This is a message from MIKE RAINEY at Georgia Outdoor News Forum ( http://forum.gon.com/index.php ). The Georgia Outdoor News Forum owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
> 
> To email MIKE RAINEY, you can use this online form:
> http://forum.gon.com/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=87322
> 
> OR, by email:
> mailto:mrainey88@ymail.com
> 
> This is the message:
> 
> Dave you can kiss my - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - if you don't believe what I said! This has not happened to me in 32 years of hunting That is the reason I ask this question on here. It happened like I said it did, and I can't explain it. If you don't believe the hunt, or what happened, so be it , DO NOT DOUGHT ME!



Mike,

Grow up.  Be a man.  If you have something useful to contribute stand up and say it in public and help solve a problem.  When you post something so improbable as to be not believable you have to expect people to question everything.  If they didn't question everything we'd never get any answers.  This is not personal grow up and participate in adult discussion and don't be sending offensive personal emails.

Dave


----------



## Buzz

I agree with the above post.   You asked, "Has any one had the same problem?"  The answer is no, I don't think anyone else has shot a single running deer five times with a bullet design that's been around since 1939, in a proven caliber,  and failed to have any of them exit.    I think your post would have gone VERY differently if you had more than a small picture.   If you had pictures of the recovered bullets (or fragments) quite a few of us would have really appreciated and absolutely interested to see.   I've done quite a bit of internal and external ballistics testing as well as writing a number of ballistics programs and this just doesn't go along with what I've seen in my years of experimenting with all kinds of bullet designs, test media, and game.    

Does that mean it didn't happen?   No - it just means it would have been a vastly different discussion if your post showed us the some of the bullets (or fragments of) that failed to exit.


----------



## miles58

shane256 said:


> No, they aren't. Regular green box Core-Lokts are cup-n-core bullets. There is a Core-Lokt brand bonded bullet but it's called Premier Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded and it's a bonded bullet (obviously).



Why do you think they named them core-lokt?

Dave


----------



## shane256

miles58 said:


> Why do you think they named them core-lokt?
> 
> Dave



Because the jacket is mechanically locked to the lead core. Bonded bullets are electro/electro-chemically bonded to the core.

From Remington's website:


> Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point - Spitzer shape profile for improved velocity and flatter trajectory. Bullet cores are mechanically locked in place to provide deep penetration.



Here's a cut-away: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/316170-express-core-lokt-30-06-sp-psp-2.html

That little indentation in the jacket around the cannelure is a part of the design for "locking the core", for example.


----------



## miles58

shane256 said:


> Because the jacket is mechanically locked to the lead core. Bonded bullets are electro/electro-chemically bonded to the core.
> 
> From Remington's website:
> 
> 
> Here's a cut-away: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/316170-express-core-lokt-30-06-sp-psp-2.html
> 
> That little indentation in the jacket around the cannelure is a part of the design for "locking the core", for example.



It makes a difference how the jacket and core are held together for the purposed of this discussion?

I think not.  I have used core-lokt bullets a fair amount in the past and they hold together about as well as any other bullets other than monometals.

If the semantics is important put this one in the bank I'll give it to you.  The end results vary insignificantly.

Dave


----------



## shane256

miles58 said:


> It makes a difference how the jacket and core are held together for the purposed of this discussion?



It might. Core-Lokts are rated at 1800fps to 2800fps impact velocity, IIRC. A .270Win at 40yds is above that. Bonded bullets are typically rated up to 3100fps impact velocities or lower, which would be within .270Win performance at 40yds. Monometals are even higher ratings.



> I think not.  I have used core-lokt bullets a fair amount in the past and they hold together about as well as any other bullets other than monometals.



I've, literally, seen hundreds of deer killed with Core-Lokts and helped clean more than a few of them. They work great, IMO... it's what I use in factory loads (those and Federal Fusions) because they just work for me and they are cheap . I typically use heavy for game bullets but the main advantage of that is that it decreases the velocity. Some folks here talk about liking 150gr in .270Win... interestingly enough... published MV of factory loads in that are ~2850fps (granted, it'll likely be lower, and those numbers are with 24" barrel, too)... and it'll slow down pretty fast. Same thing in the past when I've seen 150gr in .30-06 vs. 180gr in the same. I've seen a couple Core-Lokt bullet failures with the 150gr at close range. I've never seen a 180gr bullet failure (and have never recovered one, either). Interestingly enough... factory 180gr in .30-06 is ~2700fps VM (and lower, obviously, at impact). I use 140gr in my .260... 2750fps published MV and lower at range, of course. Never have recovered one, even after going through both front legs of a deer. 200gr Core-Lokts in .35 Remington pass through most of the time. The ones that we've recovered show picture-perfect 'mushroom' like in the Remington literature. Of course, that's a slow bullet (2080fps MV per documentation).



> If the semantics is important put this one in the bank I'll give it to you.  The end results vary insignificantly.



Depends. .270Win does have a 'reputation' and generally, I think that's because of close range shots. According to documentation, .270Win 130gr Core-Lokts at 100yds have already slowed down to below 2800fps (assuming, of course, 24" barrel, etc. and it's likely lower than published info)... within the performance envelope of the bullet.

Granted, it doesn't mean every bullet faster than 2800fps will fail or be worthless... it just means that it's outside the performance envelope and it might. Would I hesitate to use 130gr Core-Lokts in my .270Win? Nope, I don't (I have a .270Win and use 130gr Core-Lokts). It's just all numbers on paper, but they probably should  be used as guidelines since folks did the work testing them already


----------



## kbuck1

Originally Posted by miles58 Core-lokt bullets are bonded core bullets designed for penetration.

Shane, your response was

No, they aren't. Regular green box Core-Lokts are cup-n-core bullets. There is a Core-Lokt brand bonded bullet but it's called Premier Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded and it's a bonded bullet (obviouSly)


You quoted Remington s website as saying they are bonded and designed for penetration.

So which is it Shane?


----------



## shane256

kbuck1 said:


> You quoted Remington s website as saying they are bonded and designed for penetration.
> 
> So which is it Shane?



No, I didn't. You should read more carefully.

Here is what I quoted from the Remington site about Core-Lokt bullets:


> Bullet cores are mechanically locked in place to provide deep penetration.



And then I said the Remington bonded bullet is called "Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded".

Here is the specific info from the Remington site about Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded bullets:
http://remington.com/product-families/ammunition/centerfire-families/premier-core-lokt.aspx


> *Premier Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded* is a bullet in a class of its own. Developed and designed by Remington’s industry-leading R&D staff, and manufactured to our exacting process standards, Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded offers hunters the unique combination of excellent accuracy, superb weight retention and expansion with overall superior terminal results. The bonded bullet retains up to 95% of its original weight with maximum penetration and energy transfer. Featuring a progressively tapered jacket design, the Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded bullet initiates and controls expansion nearly 2x. The unique design of the bullet combined with the *bonded lead core* provides the hunter with a Premier bullet that yields unmatched performance from 50 yards to 500 yards and all yardages in-between. Premier Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded — the new standard in high-performance hunting bullets.


----------



## Huntress

There isn't a deer in GA that a .270 won't take down.  5 shots is poor shooting on the shooters  part.  These guys that think they need a 300 win mag or 7mm are just over compensating for poor shooting ability.


----------



## returntoarchery

shane256 said:


> It might. Core-Lokts are rated at 1800fps to 2800fps impact velocity, IIRC. A .270Win at 40yds is above that. Bonded bullets are typically rated up to 3100fps impact velocities or lower, which would be within .270Win performance at 40yds. Monometals are even higher ratings.



FWIW: I've chrono'd Remington 130 gr Core-Lokt 270 win with a Oehler 35p in a 24" Model 70 and a Rem 700 Sendero 26" and both were under 2900 mean fps measured at 12 feet. I don't have the exact figures with me at the moment and am going from memory.

BTW: the Fed Power-Shok (red or blue box) 130 gr were 3076 mean fps from 24" Model 70. Over what's printed on the box.


----------



## shane256

returntoarchery said:


> FWIW: I've chrono'd Remington 130 gr Core-Lokt 270 win with a Oehler 35p in a 24" Model 70 and a Rem 700 Sendero 26" and both were under 2900 mean fps measured at 12 feet. I don't have the exact figures with me at the moment and am going from memory.
> 
> BTW: the Fed Power-Shok (red or blue box) 130 gr were 3076 mean fps from 24" Model 70. Over what's printed on the box.



Yup... that's why I was mentioning "published" figures  Remington seems to be consistently below 'standard' and their published figures. Also, different guns shoot differently.


----------



## papachaz

deadend said:


> If Dave Emary, Bryan Litz, and nearly every other professional ballistician drawing breath disagree with you on terminal ballistics I'll defer to their professional opinion.  Show me one study supporting your hypothesis and I'll supp on crow tomorrow night.



I've spent some time reading this morning. Obviously I can't have read everything Dave or Brian have written, I have not YET found anywere on any of their articles that say speed = expansion. If you have something saved or can find those exact words, since that's your statement, send it to me.

Nothing but respect for Brian Litz Aerospace Engineering Degree, and his work in ballistics is widely known. But most of what I'm seeing from him is target shooting. I will spend more time reading him though, through the years I've enjoyed reading and studying shooting, and his Applied Ballistics website looks very interesting

That being said, go read ANYONE who says to use a match grade/target bullet for hunting and then try to convince anyone they're an expert. Only reason I say this is: if you say speed = expansion to someone who knows nothing about shooting or hunting, they'll take that piece of information to BassPro and buy lightweight target bullets that have a faster velocity printed on the box, than a bullet that's a little big bigger (talking grain on the same caliber) and slower yet designed for maximum pentration and expansion, which would be what he wants to hunt with. 


speed does NOT equal expansion. there is a LOT more to terminal ballistics than bullet speed.


----------



## kbuck1

shane256 said:


> No, I didn't. You should read more carefully.
> 
> Here is what I quoted from the Remington site about Core-Lokt bullets:
> 
> 
> And then I said the Remington bonded bullet is called "Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded".
> 
> Here is the specific info from the Remington site about Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded bullets:
> http://remington.com/product-families/ammunition/centerfire-families/premier-core-lokt.aspx


The point I'm try make is the bullet is designed to penetrate. Not for rapid expansion


----------



## shane256

kbuck1 said:


> The point I'm try make is the bullet is designed to penetrate. Not for rapid expansion



That's fine... I said nothing about being designed to penetrate vs. rapid expansion.  I've used Core-Lokts for a long time now... so has my dad. We don't typically shoot cartridge/bullet combos that have impact velocities outside of Remington's specs for the Core-Lokt bullet we use, though. They've served us quite well.


----------



## Gamikatsu

Jack O'Connor is Rolling in his Grave clutching his beloved Winchester model 70 (pre 64) chambered in .270 Win.  Probably shooting Core-lokts.  better quiet down  that talk!!!


----------



## rosewood

miles58 said:


> You do realize that that with a decent chest shot the blood pressure drops to zero almost instantly and that any adrenaline released is going nowhere without blood pressure to move it?  Right?  Also, the difference between a fifty yard shot and a 200 yard shot is little more than a third of a  second's worth of sound travel time, meaning the difference in the adrenaline timing is almost nothing, and when you consider the difference in bullet flight time  it's actually much less yet.
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> Dave



I don't think it has anything to do with time, it is how loud the shot is.  The deer will always be hit before he hears the shot.  At 100+ yards, it spooks the deer less than if it 25.  Also, it only takes a split second for the adrenaline to be released and get in the blood stream.  The adrenaline will fuel the muscles for a bit before needing to be replenished.  At least in my thoughts, got any cardiologist on here that can support or debunk my hypothesis?


----------



## georgiaboy2109

I have been hunting with a .270 Winchester all my life. Never had a deer go over 50 yards. I shoots 130 Federal Fusions now and they are devestating. Before that I shot Federal Power Shok and Remington Core-Lokt. 95% of the deer I have shot with my .270 have fell where they stood. I seriously doubt .007" makes a hill of beans difference and the faster the bullet is traveling the more it expands. The .270 Winchester is a top notch whitetail rifle and anyone who thinks otherwise is slow.


----------



## deerdander

May I say something. 
Core-Lokt has performed excellent for me, whether .270 130 gr., .270 150 gr., 7mm-08 120 gr., .308 150 gr., or .300 UM 150 gr. 
I may not always get an exit hole  with the .270 and 7mm-08 but, don't need one. I don't rate my bullets on exit holes. Deer have never ran more than 30 yards, period, exit hole or not.
Look in my safe and 98 % of my rifle ammo is Core-Lokt because the proof was always in the truck bed. 
I have nothing bad about any other brand ammo I have used, just that Core-Lokt is very affordable for the range and effective in killing.


----------



## miles58

rosewood said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with time, it is how loud the shot is.  The deer will always be hit before he hears the shot.  At 100+ yards, it spooks the deer less than if it 25.  Also, it only takes a split second for the adrenaline to be released and get in the blood stream.  The adrenaline will fuel the muscles for a bit before needing to be replenished.  At least in my thoughts, got any cardiologist on here that can support or debunk my hypothesis?



Adrenalin is released into the vein.  It needs to go from the adrenal to the heart and from the heart to the muscles.  If you disconnect the pump it goes nowhere.  Period end discussion.  Arteries feed muscles not veins.  Veins are the return lines to the heart.

Dave


----------



## Mario7979

*300 Savage*

I have used a Savage 300 since someone wanted my Ruger M77 more than I did back in 1993....I have shot many deer with 150 and 180 gr....Never had to track a deer....Shot them all less than 50 yard....Shot my 8 pointer  19 November 2010 and he was less than 30 yards dead center of the chest and there was no exit wound....check him and only 1 entrance wound....Have him mounted on my wall....      

Not bashing anyone for what they use....I just know I do not have to track any of the deer I take....

_______________________________________________


papachaz said:


> wrong again. you'll get such a fast pass through on close shots with either of those calibers that you won't get much bullet expansion at all. talking shots under 100 yards here.
> 
> honestly speaking, not bashing anyone who wants to shoot one of those cannons, but you couldn't give me one of them if you made it mandatory that I had to keep it. give me one I could trade or sell, sure, but not if I had to keep it


----------



## grouper sandwich

deast1988 said:


> Ask the blood hounds which caliber is called on the most? It'll be a .270. Dog trackers love 130gr .270s.



Dog trackers love crappy hunters who don't know how to shoot.


----------



## humdandy

You ever consider going bow only?


----------



## Kudos555

miles58 said:


> I am one of the best shooters I ever saw.  I have seen a number of shooters as good or better than me.  Any shooter in that class I have ever known, including me, has needed practice.  A lot of practice.  I have emptied a model 12 on a rise and killed seven birds in a little over a second.  Even today, I still put a few thousand rounds down range in a year with my rifles.
> 
> Dave



Well dang, Dave! You deserve some kind of award or something don't you?!?


----------



## hobbs27

Looks like a buckshot wound to me.If a doe stood broad side and let me put more than one round of .270 130 gr "any brand" bullets in it, I'd suspect it be a decoy.Im 40 years old and been using a .270 all my life and use 130 gr sierra gamekings....the deer die exit wound or not..The op i assume is pulling one over on some folks.


----------



## rosewood

miles58 said:


> Adrenalin is released into the vein.  It needs to go from the adrenal to the heart and from the heart to the muscles.  If you disconnect the pump it goes nowhere.  Period end discussion.  Arteries feed muscles not veins.  Veins are the return lines to the heart.
> 
> Dave



Well, lets look at it from a different angle.  You hit organs other than the heart.  So you still get blood pumping from the heart.  Say a double lung shot.  It isn't a big enough hole for the blood pressure to completely drop off until there is enough blood loss in the lungs or chest cavity.  So you get enough time for the adrenaline to make it to the shoulders and hams.

All this being said, what is your explanation for deer running off when shot at close range and dropping at longer distances?  That is the best I got.


----------



## rosewood

papachaz said:


> wrong again. you'll get such a fast pass through on close shots with either of those calibers that you won't get much bullet expansion at all. talking shots under 100 yards here.
> 
> honestly speaking, not bashing anyone who wants to shoot one of those cannons, but you couldn't give me one of them if you made it mandatory that I had to keep it. give me one I could trade or sell, sure, but not if I had to keep it



I don't have the cannons to hunt white tail with.  I have a few because I can.    Use the 7mag for long range target shooting and got the .338win mag if I ever get one of those Elk or Moose hunts out west or other CXP3 type of game.

Actually, my brother had been using the 300 win mag to hunt white tails with and he was having issues with them running off (we found them all of course, just tracking was required).  My .270 with the 150CLs had been DRT on the deer I shot, so he bought a .270 and has been using it ever sense.  The 300 just sets in the closet.  Much like my .338.


----------



## miles58

rosewood said:


> Well, lets look at it from a different angle.  You hit organs other than the heart.  So you still get blood pumping from the heart.  Say a double lung shot.  It isn't a big enough hole for the blood pressure to completely drop off until there is enough blood loss in the lungs or chest cavity.  So you get enough time for the adrenaline to make it to the shoulders and hams.
> 
> All this being said, what is your explanation for deer running off when shot at close range and dropping at longer distances?  That is the best I got.



If you don't disconnect the plumbing you effed up.  The sole exception being a CNS shot.  A deer with its heart and lungs blown out can run about fifty yards.  A deer with it's heart blown out can run about fifty yards.  A deer with it's lungs turned into red soup but with the heart untouched can run about fifty yards, and the adrenaline still cannot get to the muscles.  Open the descending aorta and the deer can go about fifty yards.  Disconnecting the plumbng is not difficult.  If you are going to eff up the shot the results are unpredictable.  

You may have seen deer drop when you shoot them at long range and run from short range.  That does not speak to the shots being equal.  That does not speak to the damage being equal.  You do not say how many animals in each sample.  It is quite possible and maybe even probable that the number of each is statistically insignificant.  Did you do something that many Georgia hunters do and that's to haul it to a processor without gutting it?  

I have shot and seen shot a wad of deer that had their chest contents destroyed.  I find that most often they run that last dash of fifty yards or so.  The only deer I see that are consistent about dropping in their tracks are uniformly CNS shots.  Once in a while you see a deer that doesn't seen to realize it's been shot and they might just stand there for a few seconds before they just tip over.  Deer that drop in their tracks are definitely the rare ones when it's a chest shot that doesn't take out the shoulders.  And, I have seen a fair number of deer shot through the shoulders that still run.  Take the front legs out and they can still run, but not so well.

Dave


----------



## grif

miles58 said:


> This thread is dumber than a box of rocks and about half of the opinions voiced here as well.
> 
> If you can't kill a deer inside 100 yards with a 130 grain core-lokt with one shot, it's on you and not the ammo it really is that simple.
> 
> If you want complete penetration from a bullet each and every time, use Barnes bullets.
> 
> If you think a .270 is any better or worse than any other caliber, .243 or larger for killing deer you lack the experience to make a credible judgement.  Some calibers might handle extended range a little better or worse, but by and large there is not enough difference to worry about.
> 
> Where do people come up with these dipwad ideas?
> 
> I have absolutely no standards when it comes to calibers I will shoot deer with.  I am a sl*t who'll shoot anything and have done so.
> 
> Choose an resonably appropriate bullet and put it where it belongs and Bambi will die.  Choose the best bullet possible and do a less than adequate job inserting it into Bambi and THAT is how you wind up with problems.  NO CALIBER OR BULLET IS GOING TO COMPENSATE FOR YOUR MISTAKES IF YOU ARE NOT SO CLOSE TO RIGHT THAT IT LIKELY DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.  I put bullets a little off intentionally once in a while to see what they do.  I open and butcher ever single deer I shoot.  I can think of two deer I have not gutted in fifty odd years of shooting deer.
> 
> In point of fact most of my experience has been that people who carry the attitude that a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - gun with a cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - scope and cheap - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ammo usually are too bleeping cheap to shoot enough to make themselves competent with a rifle.  That IMO is the real problem.
> 
> Dave


 Never thought I could agree that much with a yankee.



miles58 said:


> I am one of the best shooters I ever saw.  I have seen a number of shooters as good or better than me.  Any shooter in that class I have ever known, including me, has needed practice.  A lot of practice.  I have emptied a model 12 on a rise and killed seven birds in a little over a second.  Even today, I still put a few thousand rounds down range in a year with my rifles.
> 
> 
> Dave



However, after this post, you went back to being a - I AM A POTTY MOUTH - yankee.


----------



## rosewood

miles58 said:


> Did you do something that many Georgia hunters do and that's to haul it to a processor without gutting it?
> 
> Dave



Nope, skin out, quarter and grind the meat all ourselves usually within about an hour of putting it down.  Too cheap to pay others.  Meat taste better also.  I too have seen them running with a broken leg. 

I guess my adrenaline hypothesis has been totally blown apart, guess I will trash that idea now.  Guess I will have to come up with some other theory in why some run off and others do not.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 deer that I shot at distances greater than 70 yards and they hit the ground.  I can think of 8 deer shot at less than 60 yards and they all ran off.  I can only think of a single deer that I have shot at greater than 100 yards that ran off.  It was a gut shot at about 130 yards and he was walking.  Not sure that is a statistical anomaly.  Maybe my accuracy is worse at close distances.  And might I add, these shots were not all the same caliber.  Let's see, at greater than 70 yards, 3 with .270, 1 with .308, 1 with .50 BP.  At less than 60 yards, 1 with .50 BP, 4 with .270, 1 with .357 mag pistol, 2 with .308.

The only commonality I can see with those statistics is the range from the quarry.


----------



## miles58

rosewood said:


> Nope, skin out, quarter and grind the meat all ourselves usually within about an hour of putting it down.  Too cheap to pay others.  Meat taste better also.  I too have seen them running with a broken leg.
> 
> I guess my adrenaline hypothesis has been totally blown apart, guess I will trash that idea now.  Guess I will have to come up with some other theory in why some run off and others do not.
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 deer that I shot at distances greater than 70 yards and they hit the ground.  I can think of 8 deer shot at less than 60 yards and they all ran off.  I can only think of a single deer that I have shot at greater than 100 yards that ran off.  It was a gut shot at about 130 yards and he was walking.  Not sure that is a statistical anomaly.  Maybe my accuracy is worse at close distances.  And might I add, these shots were not all the same caliber.  Let's see, at greater than 70 yards, 3 with .270, 1 with .308, 1 with .50 BP.  At less than 60 yards, 1 with .50 BP, 4 with .270, 1 with .357 mag pistol, 2 with .308.
> 
> The only commonality I can see with those statistics is the range from the quarry.




OK, so you really have a sample of one each...maybe, if the shots were equal placement.  I wouldn't worry on it, it's just an oddity.

Dave


----------



## miles58

Mike Rainey,

Still waiting on the pictures of those bullets that stayed in the deer.

Dave


----------



## sorrydog

Huntress said:


> There isn't a deer in GA that a .270 won't take down.  5 shots is poor shooting on the shooters  part.  These guys that think they need a 300 win mag or 7mm are just over compensating for poor shooting ability.



Agree on the 300 mag and 7mm.  Bigger is not always better.  However, some of my ex-girlfriends might disagree


----------



## deast1988

*Lol*



grouper sandwich said:


> Dog trackers love crappy hunters who don't know how to shoot.



They love poor bullet choices that tend to fail also. Ask Um 270 is no Bueno IMO.


----------



## deadend

Reading some of the posts in this thread tends to lower one's IQ by association.


----------



## Buzz

deast1988 said:


> They love poor bullet choices that tend to fail also. Ask Um 270 is no Bueno IMO.



You need to talk to some different trackers...   I know several myself, none share your opinion.  They'd just group your opinion in the category of "I love people who can't shoot and blame the gun."


----------



## NCummins

There is no bruising around the entry hole. I shot a deer through both front shoulders before. The only thing wrong with corelokt I've found is the bullet passes through, and the copper jacket sticks between meet and exit hole. Which I think is great. I've never had a problem before. I have switched to 150 grain because I don't shoot more than 75 yards anymore though.


----------



## rosewood

Ok, so the OP was asking a simple question if anyone else has had any issues with the 130's not putting the deer down.  This topic has now strayed to knocking the guy and accusing him of being a liar.  Why couldn't we just answer his question and be nice?  Even if you don't believe the story, it is still a legitimate question and several have attempted to answer that question.


----------



## Balvarik

My opinion is that it looks to me as if the deer was not shot with 130grain core-lokt bullets but with 100grain pointed soft point instead.

You may have had a cruel prank played at some gun shop/store by some idiot playing with shell boxes.

The reason being is the lack of exit with all the expansion contained within the carcass.

That to me is the most plausable explanation.

I base this on a similar case last year with 30/06 150grain Hi-Shok box that had someone exchanged 125grain pointed soft point box.

How many times have we all seen someone open the box,tap out the sleeve and pull out a round to see if it looks right???!!!!!!!

Some idiots will exchange sleeves of boxes for no reason but they think it is funny,I guess..

This is just a theory but it makes the most sense to me to explain such a failure of such a "benchmark" in bullet design.

Mike
Anoka,Minnesota


----------



## polkmarine

deast1988 said:


> Ask the blood hounds which caliber is called on the most? It'll be a .270. Dog trackers love 130gr .270s.


----------



## georgiaboy2109

grif said:


> Never thought I could agree that much with a yankee.
> 
> 
> 
> However, after this post, you went back to being a - I AM A POTTY MOUTH - yankee.



I think it is plum dumb to call someone a yankee and expect them to be offended by it. Miles has a lot of knowledge and you would do good to soak some of it up.


----------



## Mako22

I shoot Winchester power points in .270 and I aim for the high shoulder. 9 out of 10 deer I shoot fall over dead right there with one shot.


----------



## LanceColeman

karoni17 said:


> lol just saying a 130 grain 270 is a waste of time compared to any grain 7mm rem mag or a 300 win mag



Thatsa awful lotta gun for a lil ol deer. Don't reckon I can say much as I like to shoot em with a 480 Ruger.

The problem is definitely not the caliber. 270 is about as fine a deer hunting caliber as they make. It's the REMINGTON ammo.

Remmy's are as fine a hunting rifle as you can get. But their ammo leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## tcward

Deer(pun intended) lawd, some of the post on here simply amaze me!


----------



## Andrew_T

LanceColeman said:


> Thatsa awful lotta gun for a lil ol deer. Don't reckon I can say much as I like to shoot em with a 480 Ruger.
> 
> The problem is definitely not the caliber. 270 is about as fine a deer hunting caliber as they make. It's the REMINGTON ammo.
> 
> Remmy's are as fine a hunting rifle as you can get. But their ammo leaves a lot to be desired.



X2. I love their rifles but shoot Winchester ammo.


----------



## cathooker

deast1988 said:


> Ask the blood hounds which caliber is called on the most? It'll be a .270. Dog trackers love 130gr .270s.



  I'm calling ******OOTER on this.


----------



## rosewood

deast1988 said:


> They love poor bullet choices that tend to fail also. Ask Um 270 is no Bueno IMO.



I have never used a tracker, do trackers typically inquire about what bullet was used?  Would they be able to point to a common issue causing the deer to run off?  That would be good info.


----------



## miles58

georgiaboy2109 said:


> I think it is plum dumb to call someone a yankee and expect them to be offended by it. Miles has a lot of knowledge and you would do good to soak some of it up.



I suppose it might be a lot meaner to call a down south native a Yankee.  Being as that's what I am, it's about like telling me I wear an orange coat in November.

I am not so sure I have a lot of knowledge.   I've just been shooting for so many years I have made all the dumb mistakes enough times to have learned not to do that some more.  Mostly like everyone else, I just luck nto a good solution once in a while without making the mistakes on the way there and think that was a brilliant decision

Dave


----------



## miles58

LanceColeman said:


> Thatsa awful lotta gun for a lil ol deer. Don't reckon I can say much as I like to shoot em with a 480 Ruger.
> 
> The problem is definitely not the caliber. 270 is about as fine a deer hunting caliber as they make. It's the REMINGTON ammo.
> 
> Remmy's are as fine a hunting rifle as you can get. But their ammo leaves a lot to be desired.



Go to this page:

http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

Look at the bullets that open without coming completely undone at high velocty and then look at the ones that still open decently down at the bottom end of the speed scale.

Core-lokt bullets are awfully uniform and behave very predictably on this chart.  Core-lokt bullets have a well earned reputation for accuracy as well.

That's what has some people seriously questioning what really happened here.  Core-lokt bullets just do not behave like this.  Even a single instance is difficult to believe.  Five in a row is next to impossible to believe and five in the chest of one deer is not something I am going to believe without the pictures and weights of the recovered bullets.

Remington ammo is not the problem here.  Remington ammo is not the problem in almost any circumstance.  If I did not reload and did not have access to ammo loaded with Barnes (or other monometal) bullets, I be shooting Core-lokt ammo.  

Something most improbable happened here and finding out what it was is worth pursuing.  Like Mike said, it's a benchmark bullet, and the chart in the link above clearly shows why.

Dave


----------



## Balvarik

The Grand daddy of all the tipped-bullets=The Bronze Point was famous for dropping deer and antelope at the shot but received horrid reviews when used on Elk and Moose for the lack of penetration and explosive expansion.

Myself the lack of a off side exit has me leaning to a "mixup" at a store or factory.
Wrong weight ammo.

Mike


----------



## Sable Pointe HC

Sam problem with me. 30-06 150grn
Shot a buck at 70yds and no pass threw. 
Bullet did expand. Also, shot
 a  doe at 30yds
and only a small fragment passed threw.
I always had decient exit wounds in the past at any yards.


----------



## glynr329

So has anyone solved Mikes Problem or just bashed him. Have any of the 270 shooters convinced any of the none 270 shooters to
 swap? Nope 
Seriously some of you should read what you write before you post it. You really look bad. 

It amazes me that some of you are actually very smart but you ruin it. Think about it if you are smart enough to figure out who you are. Use your knowledge help people.  That is what real smart people do. Then you will not have to brag on yourself because other people will do that for you.


----------



## cathooker

miles58 said:


> Go to this page:
> 
> http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg
> 
> Look at the bullets that open without coming completely undone at high velocty and then look at the ones that still open decently down at the bottom end of the speed scale.
> 
> Core-lokt bullets are awfully uniform and behave very predictably on this chart.  Core-lokt bullets have a well earned reputation for accuracy as well.
> 
> That's what has some people seriously questioning what really happened here.  Core-lokt bullets just do not behave like this.  Even a single instance is difficult to believe.  Five in a row is next to impossible to believe and five in the chest of one deer is not something I am going to believe without the pictures and weights of the recovered bullets.
> 
> Remington ammo is not the problem here.  Remington ammo is not the problem in almost any circumstance.  If I did not reload and did not have access to ammo loaded with Barnes (or other monometal) bullets, I be shooting Core-lokt ammo.
> 
> Something most improbable happened here and finding out what it was is worth pursuing.  Like Mike said, it's a benchmark bullet, and the chart in the link above clearly shows why.
> 
> Dave



Thank you Miles!


----------



## Milkman

Well there was plenty to say already on this, now that it is the boring off season are there any others who want to comment


----------



## miles58

Milkman said:


> Well there was plenty to say already on this, now that it is the boring off season are there any others who want to comment



Only that were this me having five 150 grain core-lokt bullets in a deer that I shot and recovered you can take it to the bank that I'd have every single one of those bullets and they'd be long since weighed and photographed and Remington would have all of the information I had as well as this forum.

The standard response on this forum is without pictures it didn't happen.  I think that applies here.

Dave


----------



## Milkman

miles58 said:


> Only that were this me having five 150 grain core-lokt bullets in a deer that I shot and recovered you can take it to the bank that I'd have every single one of those bullets and they'd be long since weighed and photographed and Remington would have all of the information I had as well as this forum.
> 
> The standard response on this forum is without pictures it didn't happen.  I think that applies here.
> 
> Dave



I think the OP did post pics of the doe he shot.  I dont know that the average Joe would have taken the time or had the resources to find and weigh the bullet fragments. He was also using 130 grains.


----------



## miles58

Milkman said:


> I think the OP did post pics of the doe he shot.  I dont know that the average Joe would have taken the time or had the resources to find and weigh the bullet fragments. He was also using 130 grains.



130 grain.  I stand corrected.  Posting a picture of the deer is not anywhere near so critical to answering his question as is recovering the bullets.  If he wanted to know what happened why didn't he recover them?  Maybe he didn't have a loading scale to weigh them, but we could easily have rounded  up one local to him for the job.  Even just pictures would say a lot.  One would expect that it take nothing less than complete destruction of a 130 grain core-lokt to prevent  complete penetration on one of your deer.

Dave


----------



## Geffellz18

BigAl5601 said:


> I shot Remington 150 Grain core lokt ammo in .308 for years and was never satisfied. Had to track quite a few deer farther than I wanted to. Even had a couple I never found. Switched to Winchester 150 grain power point and it has been like night and day. Most deer only make 20-30 yards if they don't drop where I shoot them. I am 100% satisfied with the Winchester rounds but wouldn't hunt with the Remington again.



I've had the exact opposite happen. Last year I shot a nice 6 pointer with my 308 150 gr winchester power point. Looked like a crime scene where deer layed down about 20 steps of where I shot him. About 5 minutes later I hear crashing near where I saw him go, and he was gone. Tracked over 4 hours and 1/4 mile. No deer. Shot 3 this season with 150gr core lokts. 2 dropped in their tracks, one ran about 10 steps then dropped. I'm back to core lokts.


----------



## Bucky T

100gr Core Lokts out of my. 243 have always been good to me.

150gr Hornady Light Mags out of my 06 have always been good to me.


----------



## Mako22

After reading the experts advice in this thread I have decided that all I can do now to be a good shot is to duct tape a .243, .270. 30-06 and a 300 win mag together, load each with a different bullet type and pull all 4 triggers when I shoot a deer. This way I will be sure to match one of the many expert opinions, get a clean pass thru, 2 foot wide blood trail and a deer that is DRT!


----------



## Milkman

Woodsman69 said:


> After reading the experts advice in this thread I have decided that all I can do now to be a good shot is to duct tape a .243, .270. 30-06 and a 300 win mag together, load each with a different bullet type and pull all 4 triggers when I shoot a deer. This way I will be sure to match one of the many expert opinions, get a clean pass thru, 2 foot wide blood trail and a deer that is DRT!



If  you read all the 190 or so posts in this thread you need some serious headache relief meds too


----------



## champ

I manufacture bullets for a living. Just step up to the 150gr if You're confident that the majority of deer You shoot will be within point blank range. That 20gr difference has enormous results in regards to hydraulic pressures upon impact. Seen the same thing when my Lady used light 7mm-08 rounds earlier this season on a deer She shot 40yds away.


----------



## sorrydog

Woodsman69 said:


> After reading the experts advice in this thread I have decided that all I can do now to be a good shot is to duct tape a .243, .270. 30-06 and a 300 win mag together, load each with a different bullet type and pull all 4 triggers when I shoot a deer. This way I will be sure to match one of the many expert opinions, get a clean pass thru, 2 foot wide blood trail and a deer that is DRT!



My God that was funny!


----------



## kmaxwell3

Not sure on your pics but shots look little low and little far back to me but it could be angle of th e camera and the way the deer is hanging? I have shot them for years out if a 3006 as 270 and never had problems wit them.


----------



## elfiii

Milkman said:


> If  you read all the 190 or so posts in this thread you need some serious headache relief meds too



I can't believe he posted in it and bumped it after reading everything.


----------



## Mako22

elfiii said:


> I can't believe he posted in it and bumped it after reading everything.



It needed to come back to the top as this issue is too important to leave unanswered.....


----------



## Killdee

.270 the new .243

Do they still give out free Coleman Lantern mantels with every box of coreloc's?


----------



## The mtn man

I read them all, lol, if the OP reads this I think I know what happened because I seen this exact same thing. Was a young 6 pt shot 5 times through the vitals with core loks, had to put him down with all things .270 corelok, I believe the batch was under powered, just a bad batch, you know how a slow moving .50 cal muzzle loader may not expand, well imagine an under loaded .270 bullet. I think that's what happened, there's been a lot of deer killed with the .270, and the corelok. No reason to think a bad box of ammo didn't make it through quality control.


----------



## spurrs and racks

*none of that looks right..........*

in that pic.

I shoot factory loads but something is up with that lot # of bullets. If you have any of them left try to find a place to shoot them where the bullets can be retrieved and measured threw a coronagraph.

I bet up come up with some bad numbers. A 270 will leave some damage on every entrance wound, and I don't see any.

s&r


----------



## ALB

I don't normally get a pass-thru with my 270 corelokts. But that's ok with me because it does so much damage that they rarely run very far. I have also used silvertips with complete pass-thru and had to track several hundred yards. So I'm pleased with the corelokts. I think it also has a lot to do with yardage. But i try in Georgia to use as heavy a bullet as i can. I think that does more damage than those fast light bullets. just my opinion.


----------



## nmurph

IF we take the OP at his word, and I usually give people I don't know the benefit of the doubt, then the only answer that makes sense is that the powder charge is not correct. 

I've killed a lot of deer in my life and have only had one that didn't exit. It was on my biggest deer (235lb), shot through the shoulders with a .270 from about 20 yards on a slightly downward angle. He was DRT and the bullet was just under the skin on the far side. I was shooting Federal NP- don't remember the weight.


----------



## Dinosaur

roll tide said:


> Its all about shot placement



^^^^^^This. Nothing else has to be said^^^


----------



## goshenmountainman

My son in law shot a nice eight a couple weeks ago with 150 grain remington core lokt, he shot it in the chest. Deer didn't fall and trotted off, looked like he missed, but I heard the bullet connect, I was a ridge over. There was no blood at the place of the shot and we looked for an hour. I found the deer almost 200 yds. away from where it was shot, not a spec of blood except for the last twenty yards and it was coming out of its nose, lung failure!! No exit and the deer was 100yds away at the shot. While cleaning the deer we found bullet, it was deformed a little but not mushroomed at all. The bullet had went through one lung and stopped short of the guts in the diaphram. It was shot from a 30-06 Thompson rifle. Don't know why it didn't expand and if he had been by himself he would have thought he missed and probably left thinking that. I had a similar thing happen about 20 years ago with the same bullets, now I shoot Winchester power points 130 grain in the awful caliber of 270, haven't had a problem since.


----------



## deers2ward

.270 is an awesome caliber that, in the hands of a good shot, can humanely kill anything on the North American continent

130gr - 150gr soft points for deer, antelope, sheep, caribou
150+gr premium bullets (partitions, etc.) for elk, moose, and bear

As others have said and like many things in life outside of hunting, if your general approach revolves around how cheaply you can get by, you are likely cutting corners somewhere, and eventually it will catch up to you.


----------



## BAMA HUNTER

I bet all who are not having pass throughs are shooting these deer at close range, say under 60 yards.  130 -150gr bullet is most the time, not gonna pass through at those speeds and distances.  I have found that beyond 60 yards or so, the cor lokts pass through just fine.


----------



## coltc

The 270 is an awesome round. I've hunted with it  for 35+ years with no problem at all, 90% were DRT. That being said, I have also heard many complaints the last couple of years about Remington core-loks. Not just in a specific caliber. I am not sure if the construction or core has changed through the years. I quit using them in the mid '80s because a friend of mine hooked me up with Barnes bullets. Back then, if I remember correctly, you could only get them for hand loads. Since then I've never used anything but Barnes. And yes I use the 130 grain.                                                                                              And for the record, to say a 270 is not a good deer caliber is just ignorant! Jack O'Conner was the best of the best. He used this caliber for over 40 years and wrote exclusive articles in Outdoor Life about it.


----------



## GADawg08

I bought some 130g core lockt for my .270 this year and shot a doe at 90 yds a few weeks ago.....double lunged her. Small entry and exit holes but she ran about 75 yds and left one of the best blood trails I've ever seen


----------



## nmurph

Dinosaur said:


> ^^^^^^This. Nothing else has to be said^^^



Please explain what shot placement has to do with multiple shots not going all the way through when shot through the rib cage.


----------



## nmurph

BAMA HUNTER said:


> I bet all who are not having pass throughs are shooting these deer at close range, say under 60 yards.  130 -150gr bullet is most the time, not gonna pass through at those speeds and distances.  I have found that beyond 60 yards or so, the cor lokts pass through just fine.




Why would it be less likely to pass through when the speed and energy are higher, and the bullet may or may not have expanded as much as at lower velocities?


----------



## notnksnemor

Man, Ya'll still arguing over this 3 years later?


----------



## nmurph

Got anything better, Dorothy?


----------



## Dinosaur

nmurph said:


> Please explain what shot placement has to do with multiple shots not going all the way through when shot through the rib cage.



You shoot a deer perfectly behind the shoulder with a 270, 130GR bullet, it's going to die quickly. Sometimes you may hit a rib or shoulder and that may keep the bullet from exiting, but I guarantee you will find your deer and he wont be far. Shoot it a little farther back than that, you may have trouble, but it wouldn't be the rounds fault. I think one problem on no recoveries is some people don't know how to look for deer unless they have a 2ft wide blood trail. That's not the bullets fault either.


----------



## Dutch

"Deadliest mushroom in the woods"

150gr Core-Lokt recovered from deer...distance of shot was 90 yds, quartering away. Hit just in front of left ham, took out top of liver, both lungs, and was under the right shoulder when I skint the deer. Deer ran less then 100yds.

I use a Rem. 760 in 30-06 now...but years ago when I hunted with a .270 I shot 130gr Core-Lokts with nary a issue.


----------



## BAMA HUNTER

nmurph said:


> Why would it be less likely to pass through when the speed and energy are higher, and the bullet may or may not have expanded as much as at lower velocities?



When you are that close, with that bullet traveling that fast it just disintegrates.  It does not come out the other side.  Up the grain of bullet and you will get the pass throughs.


----------



## elfiii

Woodsman69 said:


> It needed to come back to the top as this issue is too important to leave unanswered.....


----------



## big lazer

Got more to do with poor shooting than the poor core lokts.  Well place a .22 and he falls over.


----------



## shane256

Saw this thread necro yesterday, saw this on Field and Stream today... 


http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/g...12/02/top-40-biggest-moose-ever-taken?image=1

TOP 20 ALASKA/YUKON MOOSE
#1 Alaska
Hunter: John A. Crouse 
Score: 261 5/8 
Year: 1994
Location: Fortymile River, AK

When John Crouse and two friends flew into east-central Alaska, Crouse had made up his mind he would shoot just about any moose he saw. They were on a six-day hunt at the end of August and camped on a ridge when Crouse saw a glint of antler. That day there was the typical Alaska rain and fog, but there was enough visibility to spot this moose in his bed. Crouse waited for it to stand. When it did, the moose took two solid, well-placed shots from Crouse’s .270. That’s right, he killed a world’s record moose with a .270. It took the three men an hour to get it in a position just to be butchered. It then took them two full days to pack it back to camp. When the pilot came to pick it up, the rack wouldn’t fit anywhere in or outside the plane. And get this: Crouse suggested they split the skull to fit the antlers inside. The pilot wouldn’t hear of it and sent for a bigger plane.


----------



## ripplerider

I personally love the 150 grain Core lokts in 30-06. Shot a buck at 8 yds. otg, DRT. Have shot them at all kind of ranges up to about 130 yds. I hunt in the woods seldom hunt fields if at all. I could care less about exit wounds Id rather the bullet expend all its energy in the deer. I dont mind tracking one a ways its part of hunting. Long ago I used 150 grain Nosler ballistic tips my Dad loaded to hunt out West with, I had some spectacular bang-flops with them but too many times it seemed like they blew up on the least little twig so I switched to Core-lokts and I imagine Ill stay with them from now on.


----------



## FishinMech

I have had more problem out of a Corelok. Then any other bullet made if it doesn't hit bone they don't expand. 130 ballistic tip or Sierra game King. Never had a problem with them.


----------



## across the river

nmurph said:


> Why would it be less likely to pass through when the speed and energy are higher, and the bullet may or may not have expanded as much as at lower velocities?





BAMA HUNTER said:


> When you are that close, with that bullet traveling that fast it just disintegrates.  It does not come out the other side.  Up the grain of bullet and you will get the pass throughs.



A bonded bullet like a corelok is not going to disintegrate. A bullet like that is made to maintain its weight and will not come apart like non-bonded bullet or a frangible bullet made for shooting prairie dogs.  However, the reason you could have a bonded bullet not pass through at a short range compared to a farther range is because it is traveling at a faster velocity when it hits the deer, and therefore it goes through a more rapid expansion than it will after it has slowed down some.  The faster it is going, the quicker it expands and the faster it will dissipate energy to the tissue of the deer.   A bullet that doesn't pass through is great in most cases because the bullet has transferred nearly all of the energy it possibly could to the deer.   The slower it is going, the slower it expands, and the less energy it transfers to the animal.  People complain about a bullet not passing through, but a bullet that completely expands and doesn't pass through actually does more damage that a bullet that passes through.  As other have said, it is far more about placement than what bullet you are using.


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## Rich M

BAMA HUNTER said:


> I bet all who are not having pass throughs are shooting these deer at close range, say under 60 yards.  130 -150gr bullet is most the time, not gonna pass through at those speeds and distances.  I have found that beyond 60 yards or so, the cor lokts pass through just fine.



Bingo.

I shoot a 30-06 - 150 gr game kings at 3,000 fps.  The only time I do not have pass-thru's is on close game.  The bullet is typically a lot shorter than it is supposed to be but not fully mushroomed because most of it melted/disintigrated on contact.

Shot a doe at 60 yards - 1 hole and a retrieved bullet - DRT.  Shot a buck at 200 yards - in and out hole.

I wonder about the 30-06 mentioned a few posts up.  Didn't make it thru the guts means it dumped all its energy somewhere.

Those deer that run without blood - can it be that the bullet hole is high, covered by muscle or fat from a moving leg/shoulder/ etc?

My wife shot her first 2 deer this year - both were facing us and the second one only had a quarter sized blob of blood on the hair - DRT but would not have left a trail if he could have run.  Other one leaked all over the place from arterial damage of the throat.

I do wish they would leave better trails sometimes - we kick ourselves silly over this stuff.  Many times everything really did go as it was supposed to - except the deer didn't bleed right.


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## Kdad

If you do an in-depth research of ALL the rounds available and see what the performance is at different yardages, I think you would be surprised. I'm talking about bonafide research not the stuff that we all "hear" about. This thread proves the point of both sides because it's used in real life situations, so true and real results are accurate but the degree of difficulty is in the yardage. Some rounds pound deer at 60 yds, do ok from 60-150, do absolutely horrible beyond 150. Then you have the complete opposite with others. I shoot .270wsm with 140 accubonds and can say that with the results, I have to keep in mind for the sake of how the bullet works and at what yardage to get the biggest holes on both sides. Don't think I won't kill one at 10 feet, much less out to 300 yards but if given the chance I prefer where my bullet and design of it works the best. Don't beat me up with this guys, there is more of a ballistic performance to bullets than sometimes people take into account. Btw, my 1978 .270 760 pump just blows the doors off with all the rounds I put in it, ol' reliable. Good luck.


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## Dutch

Rich M said:


> Bingo.
> 
> 
> wonder about the 30-06 mentioned a few posts up.  Didn't make it thru the guts means it dumped all its energy somewhere.



Yeah in the deer...bullet worked like it should have.

It travelled from left to right THROUGH the deer to under the opposite shoulder where I found it. Even with only one hole, deer left a blood trail I could follow in the rain.


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## Dutch

Kdad said:


> Btw, my 1978 .270 760 pump just blows the doors off with all the rounds I put in it, ol' reliable. Good luck.



Great rifle...mine is 30-06...its a deer killing machine.


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## Twiggbuster

The reason I still shoot my '85 Winchester 270 with 130 or 150gr core-loks is that they ( many,many)drop in their tracks at variable ranges.
No need to change.


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## Core Lokt

Love my 7600 in .06 as well and it likes the CL 165gr that I run through it.


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## Rich M

Dutch said:


> Yeah in the deer...bullet worked like it should have.
> 
> It travelled from left to right THROUGH the deer to under the opposite shoulder where I found it. Even with only one hole, deer left a blood trail I could follow in the rain.



Sorry - I was talking about the guy who said they found the 30-06 bullet in the guts and the deer made it 200 yards.

"No exit and the deer was 100yds away at the shot. While cleaning the deer we found bullet, it was deformed a little but not mushroomed at all. The bullet had went through one lung and stopped short of the guts in the diaphram."

Glad they found the deer but, to me there is something amiss with that - might have been a short powder charge or something.  

Can sum it up as stuff happens...


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## Dutch

Rich M said:


> Sorry - I was talking about the guy who said they found the 30-06 bullet in the guts and the deer made it 200 yards.
> 
> "No exit and the deer was 100yds away at the shot. While cleaning the deer we found bullet, it was deformed a little but not mushroomed at all. The bullet had went through one lung and stopped short of the guts in the diaphram."
> 
> Glad they found the deer but, to me there is something amiss with that - might have been a short powder charge or something.
> 
> Can sum it up as stuff happens...



Yeah, something was off. 

I have not had any problems with Core-lokts , either factory loading's or my own hand-loads. 

But someone can always get a box of ammo made on Monday morning...


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## drtslngr

my 02. I only shoot 270. shot 5 last year with 130 gr core lokts. found all 5 but 4 ran quite a bit with very little blood, often having to get 30-40 yds in before seeing any. Switched this year to 135 gr Winchester ballistic. shot a buck about 60 yds, he dropped. no idea how why what or where on any of it.


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## ronniehstone

Huntress said:


> There isn't a deer in GA that a .270 won't take down.  5 shots is poor shooting on the shooters  part.  These guys that think they need a 300 win mag or 7mm are just over compensating for poor shooting ability.



Actually I just happened to get a really good deal on my 7 mag but just so happens it does just fine


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## wazman19

karoni17 said:


> Probably gonna get alot of criticism about this but, the 130 grain bullet aint the problem its the 270 caliber in general. I know many good shots that have had to track alot of deer behind a 270 with not very much of a blood trail if any.



Really? Many good shots? If they were good shots then the ammunition used must have been garbage.  270 is more than adequate for whitetail deer. If there was no blood trail it was the ammo or the shot placement or both. 130 grain is plenty. Core Lokt is ok for the money. Personally, I would rather spend a little more and get something better.130 grain Nosler Accubonds(hand loads) seem to be working out just fine in my Tikka.


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## Hankus

I don't think what I learned was worth what I had to read to get it


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## Flaustin1

I know this is a old thread but heres my theory.  Guy takes the first shot, hits a limb, tree, or other obstruction a foot or two in front of the deer.  Bullet breaks up causing the 5 different holes.  He missed the other 4 shots while the deer was running.


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## shane256

across the river said:


> A bonded bullet like a corelok is not going to disintegrate. A bullet like that is made to maintain its weight and will not come apart like non-bonded bullet or a frangible bullet made for shooting prairie dogs.  However, the reason you could have a bonded bullet not pass through at a short range compared to a farther range is because it is traveling at a faster velocity when it hits the deer, and therefore it goes through a more rapid expansion than it will after it has slowed down some.  The faster it is going, the quicker it expands and the faster it will dissipate energy to the tissue of the deer.   A bullet that doesn't pass through is great in most cases because the bullet has transferred nearly all of the energy it possibly could to the deer.   The slower it is going, the slower it expands, and the less energy it transfers to the animal.  People complain about a bullet not passing through, but a bullet that completely expands and doesn't pass through actually does more damage that a bullet that passes through.  As other have said, it is far more about placement than what bullet you are using.



The standard Core-Lokt bullet is a standard cup and core bullet. It isn't bonded. There is a bonded bullet made by Remington but it's called the Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded.

As far as damage, what does the most damage is the temporary and permanent wound cavities, a diagram of which is here: http://pocketdentistry.com/wp-content/uploads/285/B9781455705542000277_f027-005b-9781455705542.jpg

The amount of energy a bullet has is not actually that much, whether it's dumping it all in the deer or not. You don't see metal silhouette targets spinning around and around after a target shooter rings one and those bullets are putting a lot of their energy onto that target. Most of the time, it barely moves, if that.

You are right about the slower the impact velocity the less the bullet expands, but as long as it's expanding it's causing a temporary and permanent wound cavity. Complete penetration, IMO, aids when you have to track the animal. Two holes bleed better than one, particularly if the animal has a lot of fur/hair and/or fat (like a hog), where the hole(s) can get clogged. I prefer complete pass-through. I've seen a lot of deer that had only one hole in them that were hard to track (and this is with .45cal bullets... from a muzzle loader) but we recovered. I know some folks who were losing deer every year because of it, too... switching bullets to one that completely passed-through made them go from losing a couple/few deer per year (just couldn't find blood to track) to losing none/one per year (this is from a group of hunters I know).


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## shane256

Rich M said:


> Sorry - I was talking about the guy who said they found the 30-06 bullet in the guts and the deer made it 200 yards.
> 
> "No exit and the deer was 100yds away at the shot. While cleaning the deer we found bullet, it was deformed a little but not mushroomed at all. The bullet had went through one lung and stopped short of the guts in the diaphram."
> 
> Glad they found the deer but, to me there is something amiss with that - might have been a short powder charge or something.
> 
> Can sum it up as stuff happens...




Yup. We have few recovered bullets from higher powered rifles but my dad had a few recovered 200gr Core-Lokts from his .35 Remington. Every one of them looked just like the picture on the box... perfect mushroom.  I've never recovered a 180gr SP from my .30-06 or a 140gr PSP from my .260.


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