# Understanding Messianic Judaism Cont...



## Lowjack (Sep 24, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason4445  
What Part Of What Religion do Messianics Ignore

The main part of Judaism - Jews that follow God's law go to heaven. That is their salvation, they neither want or need Jesus for Salvation. You are either a Christian and believe some sort of way in Jesus depending on your denomination, or a Jew. Once a Jew states his belief in Jesus they become a Christian and if one must they add of Jewish heritage. 
Well That is Not Totally Correct, Jews Do not believe they go to heaven.
Heaven was never promised as and end result to following the law, The Law Is A benefit here on earth in the flesh, if you read the Torah then you will see that God says "if you keep my commandments" I will give you rain and cattle and Children and peace and prosperity and health and Wealth, Etc Etc.
God never said if you Keep the Commandments I will give you heaven.
Jews of Old did not believe Heaven is a dwelling place for the dead, they believed when a person dies he went to paradise and Paradise was in the center of the earth.

It wasn't until Jesus came and after his death that Heaven became a Doctrine in the Church ,not in Judaism.

When Jesus was Crucified with 2 Thieves next to him, one was Belligerent and the other was humbled and ask to be remember when Jesus returned in His Kingdom, Jesus responded to him Verily I say unto you ,today you will be in paradise with me, He didn't say today you will be in heaven with me, did he ?.

Jews do not believe in a he!! as Christians do either, they believe in a place were souls who have not being righteous go to be behaviorally corrected, this place is not an eternal punishment, in all of the old testament you will not find a he!! such as in the New Testament.

And again you are mistaken when a Jew accepts his Messiah he becomes a fulfilled Jew , and he does not need to forsake the eternal covenant that God made with Abraham and Jacob as that covenant has not being fulfilled as of yet.

Your Ideas of Judaism are a norm with must Christians, you simply are not well informed. 
__________________
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14


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## Ronnie T (Sep 24, 2010)

Tell me Lowjack, can I assume there's a huge difference in my personal view of my relationship with God and that of a Jewish Christian?
I don't have a connection with the law of Moses, except for learning and enlightenment purposes.  Do you, as a Jew, still hold a tight connection with the old law?


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## apoint (Sep 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Tell me Lowjack, can I assume there's a huge difference in my personal view of my relationship with God and that of a Jewish Christian?
> I don't have a connection with the law of Moses, except for learning and enlightenment purposes.  Do you, as a Jew, still hold a tight connection with the old law?


 
 Until LJ returns and speaks for himself please permit me say how I feel. The old and new testament are just one unbroken book. I feel tied to the old because its a picture of Jesus and shows the perfection in Gods plan for us because God knows the beginning and the end from the beginning. To get the full picture you have to know the whole book. Jesus quoted the old testament more than anything. Jesus kept all the O.T. commandments. Jesus kept all the feast. Jesus is the O.T. and the N.T. HE is the beginning and the end everlasting. Amen
 But thats just me and Im not a Jew as far as I know. others may feel differently.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 24, 2010)

apoint said:


> Until LJ returns and speaks for himself please permit me say how I feel. The old and new testament are just one unbroken book. I feel tied to the old because its a picture of Jesus and shows the perfection in Gods plan for us because God knows the beginning and the end from the beginning. To get the full picture you have to know the whole book. Jesus quoted the old testament more than anything. Jesus kept all the O.T. commandments. Jesus kept all the feast. Jesus is the O.T. and the N.T. HE is the beginning and the end everlasting. Amen
> But thats just me and Im not a Jew as far as I know. others may feel differently.



I agree with you completely.


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## Lowjack (Sep 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Tell me Lowjack, can I assume there's a huge difference in my personal view of my relationship with God and that of a Jewish Christian?
> I don't have a connection with the law of Moses, except for learning and enlightenment purposes.  Do you, as a Jew, still hold a tight connection with the old law?



Why Would you feel you don't have a connection with the Law, which commandment don't you keep ?

Do you not love God with all your heart and all your soul ?
Do you worship Images ? Do you bow to images.

Do you lie ?
Do you commit adultery.

Do you coveat ?

Do you murder ?
ETC ETC ETC.

Why do you call the Law Old, don't the prophecies teach that the Law will be taught from Jerusalem in the Millenial reign ?

I think you just keep the Law and yet are not even aware you do, so do I.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 25, 2010)

I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
But in my mind I'm obeying the teaching of Jesus.
The 10 commandments were given to the nation of Israel.
Only out of His mercy has God given me access to His throne.


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## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
> But in my mind I'm obeying the teaching of Jesus.
> The 10 commandments were given to the nation of Israel.
> Only out of His mercy has God given me access to His throne.


I believe the 10 commandments are Universal and I believe when you accept Christ they become automatically written in your heart by the Holy Spirit, so that your concious and subconcious tells you when you are about to commit sin, IMO.

Now the other and 603 Commandments deal with Israel Only.
And since Yeshua was YHVH in The OT he Gave the Law and He is the Law in the Flesh.


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## christianhunter (Sep 26, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> I believe the 10 commandments are Universal and I believe when you accept Christ they become automatically written in your heart by the Holy Spirit, so that your concious and subconcious tells you when you are about to commit sin, IMO.
> 
> Now the other and 603 Commandments deal with Israel Only.
> And since Yeshua was YHVH in The OT he Gave the Law and He is the Law in the Flesh.



Amen!


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## Ronnie T (Sep 26, 2010)

Yes.  And the Old Testement provides me with the greatest understanding of God.

Just imagine not having it.


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## Leviathan (Sep 29, 2010)

Ronnie, you do indeed have a connection to the law of Moses.  Romans 11:24 states that you and all gentiles are grafted in to Israel.  In other words, the same sacrifice that gave you salvation also placed you under His law.  It's like eating buffalo wings and getting heart burn.  You can not have one without the other.  And a gentile Christian should live like God demanded his chosen people to live.  Because you have been grafted into those chosen people, and you are now just as chosen!  And like it or not Matthew 5:17 states that Yahshua came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it.  The first Christians, or Messianic Jews (even though gentile Greeks were among them) used to worship at the temple along side traditional Jews.  This would never been allowed had the gentiles not kept kosher and would not have been allowed had they not been considered converts to Judaism.  Now I do not believe that you have to be or act Jewish to be saved, that would be absurd!  However, Christianity did not get the "do whatever you want" stamp until it was changed in order to appease pagan populations so that they would convert and the Roman Empire could consolidate it's power over it's many different cultures and languages by giving them unity - one religion liberal enough to be acceptable to all people.  Do whatever you want.  Just ask a priest for forgiveness and forget it.  The Reformation went halfway back to what G-d intended, however, a lot of false beliefs survived the transition.  In my opinion, sorry if it offends you, but 7th day Christians who observe His appointed times are the only Christians living as He intended and follow a proper diet.  If this upsets anyone, I am sorry.  But it is in plain English in any biblical translation with any accuracy to the original text.

Levi


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## Leviathan (Sep 29, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> I believe the 10 commandments are Universal and I believe when you accept Christ they become automatically written in your heart by the Holy Spirit, so that your concious and subconcious tells you when you are about to commit sin, IMO.
> 
> Now the other and 603 Commandments deal with Israel Only.
> And since Yeshua was YHVH in The OT he Gave the Law and He is the Law in the Flesh.



I believe this is true for all 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Tanakh.  Gentiles were grafted in.  They are now Y'israel.  Therefore, they should follow mitzvot.  It's strange to me that when I mention this they automatically get all upset about pork.  Not about adultery.  these are reasonable to everyone.  Not about being required to have a proper shabbat on a non-pagan day - since most people don't obey shabbat on even a pagan day it makes no difference.  It's giving up pastrami on rye that makes them decide they just can't bother with the Word of G-d.  There are verses in the Tanakh that require gentiles to live kosher in order to be accepted.  Then they no longer are considered goyim (pagan) but become gehr (law abiding gentile).  Now that was the old way.  Since salvation is for everyone, everyone must try to follow the whole law.    Yahshua ha-Mashicach  also said that whoever abides (not only believes, but ABIDES - obeys) in him will be saved.  If Yashua wrote the Torah, and I believe he did, and he later said on earth to obey him - I think he means ALL of what he said, not just recently.  Not to mention the bible states in many places that G-d does not change...EVER.  So therefor what He wrote for all His people 6,000 years ago still stands.  And that means ALL of His people.  Because He in his own Word states, that He did not abolish the law and later states that He will only know you as well as you know Him.  How well do you want Him to know you when the time comes?  Eating the flesh of unclean animals like shellfish and pork is not a salvation issue.  But we should strive to live completely how He wants us to.  Otherwise it is the same a Christian deciding he wants to be a Christian, but not as Christian as having to give up his porn or his lust.  There is no difference.

Shalom Shalom (Perfect Peace),
Levi


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## Leviathan (Sep 29, 2010)

apoint said:


> Until LJ returns and speaks for himself please permit me say how I feel. The old and new testament are just one unbroken book. I feel tied to the old because its a picture of Jesus and shows the perfection in Gods plan for us because God knows the beginning and the end from the beginning. To get the full picture you have to know the whole book. Jesus quoted the old testament more than anything. Jesus kept all the O.T. commandments. Jesus kept all the feast. Jesus is the O.T. and the N.T. HE is the beginning and the end everlasting. Amen
> But thats just me and Im not a Jew as far as I know. others may feel differently.




I agree wholeheartedly.  The entire book is the word of G-d.  The bible is the word of the L-rd or Hosts (Adonai-Tzyvaot) from the first page to the last.  it is all relevant and all in force, and any attempts to say any different is simply a cop out to avoid the inconvenience of stopping to follow un-biblical tradition.

Levi


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