# apologetics from the other view.



## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

For the guys that are not Christian. What do you believe why do you believe in it? Also if you care to explain, how did you come to the conclusions you have?


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## Achilles Return (Oct 20, 2010)

I lack belief in gods.  I reject faith as a means towards understanding the world - and there is no deity that satisfies both logic and reason. 

I came to this conclusion through careful observation of society and rigorous study of christian doctrine (I was raised christian).


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## davidstaples (Oct 20, 2010)

I was raised in a Christian household and went to church every Sunday and Wednesday.  I am agnostic.  In other words, I don't know for sure whether a god exists or not and you don't either.  Logic and reasoning got me to that answer.


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

Hey I qualify as not Christian so I can answer this one.

I believe in a supreme being that has many names and manifestations in different parts of the world. I believe man's attempts to know Him/Her (God lacks an actual gender in my mind but that's tough to put into words) have resulted in huge misunderstandings of what he intends for us to do and how we are to act. 

I was raised in a home with a nominally Catholic Mother and a Southern Baptist non practicing Father. They encouraged me to explore religion and to make up my own mind about what was true and what was not. I did just that.

I spent time in churches of various denominations and explored beliefs of 5 or 6 different major religions before I left high school including a year or so in a Charismatic Pentecostal church.

I've noted the similarities and differences in the doctrines read the histories and know that most religions have had their periods of fanaticism and funadmentalist bigotry leading to abominations including genocide and torture of infidells/ non believers, those of other faiths. Non of the faiths I have found have avoided this type of behavior that I cannot attribute to any God. Hindu, Muslims, Jews, Christians... have all at times been guilty of this type of abomination. 

My conclusion is that NONE of the faiths on the face of this Earth have developed enough to have it all figured out.


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> I lack belief in gods.  *I reject faith as a means towards understanding the world -* and there is no deity that satisfies both logic and reason.



Do you think not having faith has help in your understanding of the world?



> I came to this conclusion through careful observation of society and rigorous study of *christian doctrine *(I was raised christian).



what part of the Christian doctrine turned you away? It could not have been all of it


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I was raised in a Christian household and went to church every Sunday and Wednesday.  I am agnostic.  *In other words, I don't know for sure whether a god exists or not *


when do you plan on finding out?





> and you don't either.


yes i do.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 20, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> when do you plan on finding out?
> yes i do.



I second that


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

Wow ask a question and then when it is answered, treat them and their answers that way.

You wonder why we have such a poor opinion of Christians?


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

TTom said:


> Wow ask a question and then when it is answered, treat them and their answers that way.
> 
> You wonder why we have such a poor opinion of Christians?



can you quote something that I said that was rude?


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

You dancing banana ridiculed his position that we don't know  (based on evidence not faith)

I'm sure you'll deny the intent to be rude. I'll be honest and tell you I won't believe you.


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## CAL (Oct 20, 2010)

TTom said:


> You dancing banana ridiculed his position that we don't know  (based on evidence not faith)
> 
> 
> It is a sad world when a dancing banana is being rude.


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

TTom said:


> You dancing banana ridiculed his position that we don't know  (based on evidence not faith)


my dancing banana was a little poke for me saying"yes I do", didn't realize I was being rude. I was not ridiculing his position.



> I'm sure you'll deny the intent to be rude. I'll be honest and tell you I won't believe you.



why do you have such a hard time believing?


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## VisionCasting (Oct 20, 2010)

CAL said:


> TTom said:
> 
> 
> > It is a sad world when a dancing banana is being rude.
> ...


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## Achilles Return (Oct 21, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> The world would be a better place if people extended some grace and didn't get their feelings so easily bruised.



You mean like if christians here didn't secretly assume that the atheists are looking for intellectual superiority and just wait for the moment to call them out on it? Extending grace like that?


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## drippin' rock (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> For the guys that are not Christian. What do you believe why do you believe in it? Also if you care to explain, how did you come to the conclusions you have?



Faith is a hard thing to come by.  For the last 2000 years or so, that is what Christians have had to fall back on to keep going.  As we advance as a society and intellectually, it becomes easier to explain what would have been solid proof of God's existance 150 years ago.  

I'll leave the dancing banana for the next guy.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 21, 2010)

CAL said:


> TTom said:
> 
> 
> > You dancing banana ridiculed his position that we don't know  (based on evidence not faith)
> ...


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> when do you plan on finding out?
> yes i do.



When?  I don't have a set date as to when I plan to die.  Do you?

No.  You don't know that your god exists any more than the Greeks *knew* that Zeus existed.


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> When?  I don't have a set date as to when I plan to die.  Do you?



no I don't have a set date, I was just wondering when you planned on finding out that God exists, but you answered my question, after you die and it is to late. I hope and pray that you find out before that.



> No.  You don't know that your god exists any more than the Greeks *knew* that Zeus existed.



want to know the difference between Zeus and God? They teach about Zues in public schools!

oh and you hurt my fewwings wif all your nanners.


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> When?  I don't have a set date as to when I plan to die.  Do you?
> 
> No.  *You don't know that your god exists *any more than the Greeks *knew* that Zeus existed.



He is YOUR God too, you just have not realized it yet, God is everybodys God. He would not be God if this were not true.


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> He is YOUR God too, you just have not realized it yet, God is everybodys God. He would not be God if this were not true.



My Flying Spaghetti Monster is YOUR Flying Spaghetti Monster too, you just have not realized it yet, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is everybodys Flying Spaghetti Monster.  He would not be the Flying Spaghetti Monster if this were not true.  

http://www.venganza.org/


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> My Flying Spaghetti Monster is YOUR Flying Spaghetti Monster too, you just have not realized it yet, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is everybodys Flying Spaghetti Monster.  He would not be the Flying Spaghetti Monster if this were not true.
> 
> http://www.venganza.org/



terrible arguement and website, we dont believe in God so lets just make fun of everybody who does. I bet these are all the guys at K-state that don't have girlfriends. A real idiotic way to try to get a false point across.


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> terrible arguement and website, we dont believe in God so lets just make fun of everybody who does. I bet these are all the guys at K-state that don't have girlfriends. A real idiotic way to try to get a false point across.



I agree, the website could use some work.  But so could this guy's... http://www.faithdeliverancecm.webs.com

But insulting someone else isn't going to exactly bring people over to your side... you do realize that right?  Furthermore, it wasn't Kennesaw State, but you're close... Oregon State.  I know, I know... it was on the tip of your tongue wasn't it?

So are you saying atheists who poke fun at Christians can't have meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I agree, the website could use some work.  But so could this guy's... http://www.faithdeliverancecm.webs.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> when did I do this?



"I bet these are all the guys at K-state that don't have girlfriends."

You don't think that's insulting them?  Okay... whatever.

I guess since I'm an agnostic anyways, I guess that exempts me from your view that atheists can't have meaningful relationships with the opposite sex.  I'm happily married, and religion has nothing to do with it.


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> "I bet these are all the guys at K-state that don't have girlfriends."
> 
> You don't think that's insulting them?  Okay... whatever.
> 
> I guess since I'm an agnostic anyways, I guess that exempts me from your view that atheists can't have meaningful relationships with the opposite sex.  I'm happily married, and religion has nothing to do with it.



cant take a little  huh?
I just love how you guys take every little thing we as Christians say thats a little joke or rib poking and turn it into " see I told you that you Christians were terrible people and that God is not real, you said something funny about those people"


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> cant take a little  huh?
> I just love how you guys take every little thing we as Christians say thats a little joke or rib poking and turn it into " see I told you that you Christians were terrible people and that God is not real, you said something funny about those people"



I can take a joke... you weren't joking about me though... I was just making an observation about what you said about that particular group.


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## Diogenes (Oct 22, 2010)

“For the guys that are not Christian. What do you believe why do you believe in it? Also if you care to explain, how did you come to the conclusions you have?”

I believe that the platypus was not made out of the parts of the other animals, but rather that the other animals were made out of the parts of the platypus.

I believe that if you throw something up into the air, you have to throw it really, really, really hard to keep it from coming back down eventually and hitting you smack on top of the head.

I believe that the new Camaro is the ugliest car ever made, bar none.

I believe that anything that takes less than three hours isn’t worth doing.

I believe that we’ll never get done with trying to calculate PI into a fixed number, no matter how many times we try, giving the lie to any thought of perfection.

I believe that if Nancy Pelosi isn’t actually an alien sent from another galaxy to destroy our planet then she’s the closest thing we’ll ever see.

I believe that my breakfast tried to stare me down this morning, and won.  

And I believe that God is a small green watering can in Geneva.  Since you cannot prove that this is not the case, and since I believe that it is true, then it is true.  Period.  I came to this conclusion by spending my time learning about the actual history of every god that humanity has ever proposed and worshipped, and concluding that one of them bears no decisive difference over any other – so yours has no advantage over mine in any regard.  

But my altar, to my God of the little green watering can, holds the moral high ground if only because it has never been consecrated by the blood of others, spilled by men desperately trying to prove their own worth at the point of a sword.  Say the same of your own ‘belief,’ if you dare.

I believe that the trope of ‘belief’ is the most destructive, divisive, and purely insane invention humanity could have ever conceived, and history bears that thought on its shoulders.  And I believe that any construct that calls itself a ‘belief,’ rather than a truth, and proposes an ‘Evil’ in opposition to their own self-described ‘Good,’ must of needs prove their position.  

‘Belief’ has authored too many of humanity’s tragedies to hold itself harmless, and if ‘Belief’ holds itself in stark opposition to ‘Non-belief,’ and invariably holds itself to be the force of Good while portraying all else as Evil, then it is held to a still higher standard – it must not only prove that the supernatural forces it claims to represent actually exist, but must also prove that it represents the benevolent.  History argues against any such assertion.

Given the rather atrocious and blood-filled history of nearly all passionate ‘belief’ systems, can you say with certainty, as a ‘believer’ in the supernatural, that the very existence of the conflicts spawned by differing belief systems is not truly a manifestation designed by and exploited by the  EVIL you propose?  Can you know?  Really?  Did your Devil design the conflicts for the sole purpose of tearing humanity into factional conflicts? And is your all-powerful God powerless to prevent this?  Really?

I believe that ‘Believers’ are filled with rationalizing, self-righteous, self-justifying crap.  And they prove it to me daily.


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## stringmusic (Oct 22, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> “For the guys that are not Christian. What do you believe why do you believe in it? Also if you care to explain, how did you come to the conclusions you have?”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 22, 2010)

Another highly entertaining post from Diogenes!


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## ted_BSR (Oct 23, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> “For the guys that are not Christian. What do you believe why do you believe in it? Also if you care to explain, how did you come to the conclusions you have?”
> 
> I believe that the platypus was not made out of the parts of the other animals, but rather that the other animals were made out of the parts of the platypus.
> 
> ...



That's why his posts are so long!!!!!


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## ted_BSR (Oct 23, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> You mean like if christians here didn't secretly assume that the atheists are looking for intellectual superiority and just wait for the moment to call them out on it? Extending grace like that?



Diogenes has just done a pretty good job of proving the inverse of this.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 23, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> I believe that the new Camaro is the ugliest car ever made, bar none.



Heresy.  Burn him!


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