# Pattern Results With The New Hevi-13



## Gadget (Feb 25, 2008)

Ammo used

Hevi-Shot Hevi-13 3.5 2 1/4 oz #6 
Winchester Xtended Range 3.5 2 oz #6
Winchester High Velocity 3.5 2oz #6
Winchester High Velocity 3.5 2oz #5
Winchester High Velocity 3.5 2oz #4
Kent Ultimate Diamond Shot 3.5 2 1/4 oz #5
Nitro 4x5x7 3.5 2 1/4oz hevishot



Setup

Benelli Super Black Eagle II 24 inch barrel; Docter Optic Reflex Red Dot
Rhino .660
Pure Gold .670
Truglo Strutstopper Xtreme .643
Lead Sled DFT

Perfect conditions; clear n sunny, 65 degrees, 55% humidity, wind calm


Results @ 40 yards; pellets in 10 inch circle


Win HV #6 PG choke, 97 pellets 10" circle
Win HV #5 Rhino, 73 pellets
Win HV #4 PG choke, 78
Kent #5, PG choke, 66

Win XR #6

PG choke, 127
Rhino, 154
Rhino, 128
TG, 151

Hevi-13 #6

PG, 189
PG, 172
PG, 206
Rhino, 198
Rhino, 181
Rhino, 203
TG, 175

Nitro

PG, 275
PG, 262
Rhino, 270
Rhino, 309


Changing to Winchester from the other ammo resulted it patterns shooing up to 8 inches high!!; the Kent, Nitros, Hevi-13 all shot about the same place. Also the PureGold and Rhino choke shot about the same while the Truglo shot 6 inches high; just changing chokes or ammo can change your POI significantly!!

All of the lead shells shot a pattern barely good enough for 40 yards IMO, while all the heavy loads shot a good enough pattern for 50+. I consider 50 pellets in a 10 circle the absolute bare minimum for a pattern and like to see 100+.

The new hevi-13 shot about as good as the Nitros, I think if the Nitros were loaded with straight 6's like the hevi-13's or vice versa you would see about the same numbers. The Nitros were probably just a little tighter.


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## brucemacgee19 (Feb 25, 2008)

that's my set up  in the pic........ consistantly puts great patterns out to 62 yds..... after 64 yds the pattern doubles!  it completely goes away.  but up to 62 yds you get the same everytime out of it.  my gun the mossberg 835 24" barrel.  that hevi and the pure gold are a great combination for a mostly low cost rig!


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## trkyhntr70 (Feb 26, 2008)

Great post on patterning Rick,Thanks for sharing your findings.


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## striper commander (Feb 26, 2008)

My stepdad has the same gun you were shooting but he is using a carlson 665 umported tube. I shot it three times at 40 with the extended range winchester 6's and got (208) (213) and (223) in a 10 inch circle. But it was probably in the 70's when I shot his. I am going to try the 3.5 inch 2 1/4oz hevi 13's in his gun later on today. His barrell had the cyrogenic treatment done on it from the factory, has your gun had that done also. I need to borrow that leadsled for my 835.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

Y'all just forgive me.  I'll quit quoting him eventually.  But one of the big "criticisms of Nitro rounds is that they are too tight.  At 40 yards, you're still shooting a pie plate at them.

Somebody asked Tom Kelly what happens with Nitros if you get a bird at 10 yards this weeked at the convention.  Obviously, the thought was that at ten yards you're basically shooting a bullet at them.  He just looked at that guy and said, "buddy, if you or I let a boid get to within ten yards of us, we've made a serious mistake.  I pull the trigger when that boid gets to 40.  I don't need to worry about what my pattern looks like at 10."

I thought that was hilarious.  Never thought about it like that.


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## Jody Hawk (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> Somebody asked Tom Kelly what happens with Nitros if you get a bird at 10 yards this weeked at the convention.  Obviously, the thought was that at ten yards you're basically shooting a bullet at them.  He just looked at that guy and said, "buddy, if you or I let a boid get to within ten yards of us, we've made a serious mistake.  I pull the trigger when that boid gets to 40.  I don't need to worry about what my pattern looks like at 10."



I can think of several birds I've killed that didn't present a shot until they were within 20 yards. What about setting up blind calling in the evenings. You have no clue which direction the bird will show from. If you're a right handed shooter, he may come off your right shoulder or from behind you. Ask Gobblingdawg how close The NightStalker was when he first spotted him. Personally, I want an ideal pattern that'll kill him at 40 yards but still not too tight that I may miss him if he doesn't present the ideal shot at 15. 

Oh yeah, awesome pattern Rick.


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## Georgiaboy83 (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks Rick for the pattern testing, I shoot Hevi-13 and love em' shot my biggest bird last year @ 50 yards. And my first WMA bird @ 18 steps, but I shoot a O/U and can change my chokes for different distance shots.

Jode


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm with ya man.  I'd rather split the diff to be honest.  I just thought it was funny the way he worded it.  Based on some other comments he made (and we all know he's pretty opinionated), I would guess he would tell you that you chose a bad place to set up.  You should have thought better about your setup spot if a bird can get within 20 yds of you before you can shoot him.

Like I said, that's not me.  I think you're right.  I'm just saying, that's what the Colonel would have said to that IMO.


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## Jody Hawk (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> I'm with ya man.  I'd rather split the diff to be honest.  I just thought it was funny the way he worded it.  Based on some other comments he made (and we all know he's pretty opinionated), I would guess he would tell you that you chose a bad place to set up.  You should have thought better about your setup spot if a bird can get within 20 yds of you before you can shoot him.
> 
> Like I said, that's not me.  I think you're right.  I'm just saying, that's what the Colonel would have said to that IMO.



I looked for him Sunday but they said he was gone.


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## Greg Tench (Feb 26, 2008)

Jody Hawk said:


> I looked for him Sunday but they said he was gone.



Jody, He was there. I got an autograph and a picture with him. He told me that I could not run for public office now that me and him are in a pic together. He is a character for sure.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

Sorry Rick... didn't mean to hijack your thread.  Very cool patterning results.  I'm glad to hear the hevis did almost as good as the nitros.

Oh and thanks for the advice on the red dot.


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## Steven Farr (Feb 26, 2008)

Great post Rick!!  You are spot-on with your observation about changing chokes.  Another thing people forget is that different shells shoot different velocities which will change your point of aim.  This is why some shells shoot higher and lower than others.  Great patterns by the way.


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

I talked to the guys at Eviron Metals and Winchester over the weekend at the convention and found out a few interesting things.

When I first saw the specs on the new Hevi-13 shells I balked at the slow fps (1090), compared to the Nitros and Win XR which is in the 1200's, thinking they wouldn't have the down range energy of the others. What I didn't realize is how much more dense the Hevi-13 is which makes up for the slower speed.

Here's how they break down.

Lead  10.8 g/cc
Winchester Xtended Range 12g/cc
Nitro Hevi-shot 12g/cc
Hevi-13 13g/cc

Nitros use Hevi-shot not Hevi-13,Hevi-13 is more dense, compared to the Winchester and Nitros.  Hevi-13 is advertised as having 40% more knockdown power and 40% more range than lead.



The Winchester guy told me the XR #6 is equal to lead #5, while the Eviron guy said the Hevi-13 #6 was at least equal to lead #4's; this makes sense being that they are denser than the others. He said the Hevi-13 #6 could break a turkey's neck at 65 yds using the new 1090fps shells. 


All of the heavy loads far out performed the lead in patterns, increases in pellet counts from 100 to over 300%!! ; even when comparing the same size shot.

Look for Evrion Metals to come out with a #7 load as well as a Duplex or Triplex to compete with the Nitros, probably won't be seen until next year.


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## JTharpe (Feb 26, 2008)

Gadget thanks for posting the results. It will no dought help alot of people out


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

Well that explains the slower speed now, doesn't it?  Makes sense to me.  Thanks


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> Well that explains the slower speed now, doesn't it?  Makes sense to me.  Thanks




The reason they slowed them down was to improve the pattern. They found that if they came in just under the sound barrier the pattern improved quite a bit. Based on the pattern results I'd say it worked. The old shells didn't do nearly as good when I patterned them a couple years ago.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

I've got ten 3.5" #6's sitting at the house waiting to be patterned.  I know this is just asthetics, but the Wins just look cheaply made.  Obviously I'm still gonna use whichever patterns best out of my setup.  

Hey, I just picked up the Burris sight you were telling me about.  Got it for $175 shipped.  Good trade off for me.  Same weight, pretty much the same sight for half the price.  I think it will serve my purpose just right.  I didn't even know that sight existed, so thanks for the info on that.


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> I've got ten 3.5" #6's sitting at the house waiting to be patterned.  I know this is just asthetics, but the Wins just look cheaply made.  Obviously I'm still gonna use whichever patterns best out of my setup.
> 
> Hey, I just picked up the Burris sight you were telling me about.  Got it for $175 shipped.  Good trade off for me.  Same weight, pretty much the same sight for half the price.  I think it will serve my purpose just right.  I didn't even know that sight existed, so thanks for the info on that.




No problem. The Burris didn't exist when I bought my Docters, otherwise I probably woulda bought the Burris. At less than half the price and being so close to the docter in specs it's hard to beat.

The new Hevi-13 are what I'll be shooting if not Nitros, the new 13's are very good shells.

 don't know if Winchester changed something but they seemed to go backwards for me, last time I patterned them, couple years ago, I was getting results in the upper 100's, now I'm getting lower 100's.


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## hawglips (Feb 26, 2008)

Gadget said:


> Lead  9.8 g/cc
> Winchester Xtended Range 10.9g/cc
> Nitro Hevi-shot 12g/cc
> Hevi-13 13g/cc



I had no idea that the name "Hevi-13" was actually referring the the density of the shot.  That all makes perfect sense now.

Isn't it true that the Federal 's Heavyweight shot is 15g/cc?

I'm playing around with some hand loads using #7 and #9 shot that is 17.5g/cc.

Its some VERY dense stuff.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

17.5!!!!  That stuff will be coming out at 300 fps man!  LOL, just kidding.  Let us know how they do when you get 'em put together.


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## hawglips (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> 17.5!!!!  That stuff will be coming out at 300 fps man!  LOL, just kidding.  Let us know how they do when you get 'em put together.



I've actually got a 2.75" shell done that'll put 218 pellets of that stuff (#9s) in a 10" circle, and 385 pellets in a 20" circle.  And I got that pattern one morning when it was 19 degrees.    I figure #9s will be about like #7s in a 13g/cc shot.

I don't know the velocity, but it's probably a little over 1200fps.  I'm also not sure of the chamber PSI -- which may be a little high.  So I'm going to back off the fps a bit though to try to get it more about 1100-1150 and maybe it'll improve the pattern also.

But you don't want to know how much the loads are costing me.  If you think Nitros are expensive, this stuff makes them look like a dove load.  So, they aren't economically feasible for a sane person.

And if I play it right, I'll have a 3" load ready by turkey season...


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

hawglips said:


> So, they aren't economically feasible for a sane person....



...and since when were you under the impression that turkey hunters were sane?


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## hawglips (Feb 26, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> ...and since when were you under the impression that turkey hunters were sane?



Good point.


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## Ricochet (Feb 26, 2008)

Rick, awesome thread...thanks for sharing!

My Hevi-13 #6 & Pure Gold choke combo rocks with my 870.  I'm more than happy with the results, especially after killing my turkey last season @ 50 yards.  I basically broke his neck and dropped him in his tracks, but he did flop 1 big time into the creek next to him.  LOL  What memories!


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## hawglips (Feb 26, 2008)

> Look for Evrion Metals to come out with a #7 load as well as a Duplex or Triplex to compete with the Nitros, probably won't be seen until next year.



Rick, I think there's a lot of room for folks to compete with Nitros if they wanted to.


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## 01Foreman400 (Feb 26, 2008)

Rick great post man.  

Nitro better get their butt in gear.  

Darrell


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## fountain (Feb 26, 2008)

i got the darn 1.75 oz. shot.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 26, 2008)

Yeh, that's what I have too.  Oh well....it'll kill turkeys.


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## Greg Wallace (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for posting your patterning results.

I've been getting good results with SBE2 24", Jellyhead .660, WIN XR #6 (3.5"), but I have been wanting to try some Hevi 13 in my setup.  Judging from your results, I'm going to give it a try.


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## deepwater (Feb 26, 2008)

Gadget said:


> I talked to the guys at Eviron Metals and Winchester over the weekend at the convention and found out a few interesting things.
> 
> When I first saw the specs on the new Hevi-13 shells I balked at the slow fps (1090), compared to the Nitros and Win XR which is in the 1200's, thinking they wouldn't have the down range energy of the others. What I didn't realize is how much more dense the Hevi-13 is which makes up for the slower speed.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. How close do you think a Win XR 5 would be compared to lead ? Would it be safe to say that its close to a lead 4 ?


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

hawglips said:


> I've actually got a 2.75" shell done that'll put 218 pellets of that stuff (#9s) in a 10" circle, and 385 pellets in a 20" circle.  And I got that pattern one morning when it was 19 degrees.    I figure #9s will be about like #7s in a 13g/cc shot.
> 
> I don't know the velocity, but it's probably a little over 1200fps.  I'm also not sure of the chamber PSI -- which may be a little high.  So I'm going to back off the fps a bit though to try to get it more about 1100-1150 and maybe it'll improve the pattern also.
> 
> ...



Man that's interesting Hal. Please let us know how it works out. I bet that 17g stuff is way expensive. I looked into doing some hand loading myself but after I started pricing everything out I found it would be more expensive to hand load than to just buy custom made Nitros...  but like you I would still enjoy doing it, even if it did cost more.

I heard that federal's super heavy loads weren't doing good at all on the pattern range and they are going to discontinue it. If you look at their site they taken it all off.


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

deepwater said:


> Thanks for the info. How close do you think a Win XR 5 would be compared to lead ? Would it be safe to say that its close to a lead 4 ?




Yeah the guy from Winchester told me the XR is equal to one size larger in lead, so #5 would be like #4 lead in energy and range.


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## deepwater (Feb 26, 2008)

Gadget said:


> Yeah the guy from Winchester told me the XR is equal to one size larger in lead, so #5 would be like #4 lead in energy and range.



 Thanks again gadget. All that info is good to know.


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2008)

*Whitetaco02*

the first thing you need to do is buy a roll of 3ft construction paper from Home Depot.

sharp razor knife for cutting paper and duc tape to tape them up. cut about 3x3ft pieces to shoot into. You'll need a piece of plywood or something to tape your targets to.

stick on target dots from walmart. If you look @ my target, the big orange dot is the POA(point of Aim) the small one is where I marked the center of pattern after the shot. POI(point of impact) center point.

If you want to shoot a turkey target then tape it over top of the big target. I don't shoot turkey targets too much any more because they're not really good for making comparisons. The brain and spinal cord is the kill zone on a turkey target and it's such a small area that a slight shift in your pattern can give you very erratic results. It's better to just shoot a big target where you can see your entire pattern and then draw a 10 inch circle in the most dense part of the pattern, this gives you a better indicator of your pattern. This way if you pull your shot and your not dead center it doesn't matter because your going to find the center of the pattern after the shot and then draw your circle. I've found that about 50 pellets in a 10" circle will yield about 5 pellets in the kill zone on a turkey target, this is considered the minimum. Once you get to this point, this is the maximum range of your pattern.  As you can see from my first post the lead rounds were very close to their maximum range at 40yds. I like to see at least 100 pellets at 40yds in the guns that I pattern, that way if I make a mistake and shoot a bird that is too far I know I have a gun that will kill out to 50 yds. My personal range for taking a shot is 40yds or less, but I have to judge that distance and sometimes make mistakes. Once last year, on a field bird, I shot at 49 yards; that's why I like to have a gun that will shoot to 50yds. 90% of the birds I shoot are between 25-35 yards.

Get a piece of stiff cardboard and cut it into a 10inch circle so you trace your circles. Cut a small hole in the center so you can line up the dot you mark as the center of the pattern.


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## Gun Docc (Feb 26, 2008)

guess you learnt a trick or two from me huh Rick...


the Hevi-13 loads works for me ,can't help it if I'm a dealer for em,good stuff

they will have a 10 gauge load on the market within a few weeks according to the hevi-shot rep. he was to have some at the nwtf show but they had some sort of problem and said they will hit the market soon

we even spoke of a new 20 gauge load sporting #7 hevi-shot ,would be an awesome load for the 20 gauge shooters 

the bronze hevi-13 loads in the 3 inch 2 oz version as well as the 3-1/2 inch 2-1/4 oz version are purposely loaded to the 1090 fps which is subsonic and definitely produces denser patterns at the longer ranges and still keep plenty of energy to cleanly kill game due to it's weight


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## whitetaco02 (Feb 26, 2008)

Gadget said:


> the first thing you need to do is buy a roll of 3ft construction paper from Home Depot.
> 
> sharp razor knife for cutting paper and duc tape to tape them up. cut about 3x3ft pieces to shoot into. You'll need a piece of plywood or something to tape your targets to.
> 
> ...




Thank you!  Makes perfect sense to me now.  I will make sure I forward this to my dad.


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## hawglips (Feb 27, 2008)

Gadget said:


> I bet that 17g stuff is way expensive.



The shot alone cost me about $6.25 per ounce...


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## Huntinfool (Feb 27, 2008)

hawglips said:


> The shot alone cost me about $6.25 per ounce...



I can promise you, if you want to load enough of it, there will be some folks who would be willing to test it out in the field for you.  Shoot, I'd be on that list.  I'd be more than happy to cover the costs for about 10 of 'em just to see what they can do.  

Like I said, turkey hunters are not sane.  If you put out the best shell possible and it costs $15/per.....people would buy you out.


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## Gadget (Feb 27, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> I can promise you, if you want to load enough of it, there will be some folks who would be willing to test it out in the field for you.  Shoot, I'd be on that list.  I'd be more than happy to cover the costs for about 10 of 'em just to see what they can do.
> 
> Like I said, turkey hunters are not sane.  If you put out the best shell possible and it costs $15/per.....people would buy you out.





Hey that's nothing compared to Duck hunters, they buy the hevi-duck loads by the case!  They go through hundreds of hevi-shot shells a season compared to 5-10 by a turkey hunter. 300-500.00 bucks a year.


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## Gadget (Feb 27, 2008)

brucemacgee19 said:


> that's my set up  in the pic........ consistantly puts great patterns out to 62 yds..... after 64 yds the pattern doubles!  it completely goes away.  but up to 62 yds you get the same everytime out of it.  my gun the mossberg 835 24" barrel.  that hevi and the pure gold are a great combination for a mostly low cost rig!




yeah those pure gold chokes shoot really well, should of got one for my BPS while at the show this weekend.


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## Gadget (Feb 27, 2008)

300mag said:


> My stepdad has the same gun you were shooting but he is using a carlson 665 umported tube. I shot it three times at 40 with the extended range winchester 6's and got (208) (213) and (223) in a 10 inch circle. But it was probably in the 70's when I shot his. I am going to try the 3.5 inch 2 1/4oz hevi 13's in his gun later on today. His barrell had the cyrogenic treatment done on it from the factory, has your gun had that done also. I need to borrow that leadsled for my 835.




The leadsled helps tremendously! 

My gun is a Cyro barrel with a chrome lining, I think all SBE II's are.

 Those are great patterns he got.


 There's some difference on how people count holes too, some count every hole with a tail as two hits, where I usually count that as one unless I see two distinct circles, this can make quite a difference in the pellet counts.


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## striper commander (Feb 27, 2008)

I still haven't shot his gun like I said I was. The weather has been to bad. I could of counted some of the little clusters for more hits than it actually was. I am off to bass pro here in a bit to get me some more ammo. I am thinking about getting me a more open choke for my 835 also. It just is not shooting the hevi13's like it should and I want to shoot them because of all the energy they have.


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## Atlsooner (Feb 27, 2008)

Went to camp recently and patterned 3 different shells (Remington, Winchester, Federals) All 3 were 3" shells, #4's. Was really disappointed in the Remingtons. Shooting a Remington Model 870 12ga. with a Hastings .660 choke.

The first picture (left to right) 
Winchester @ 35 yrds, Federals @ 35 yrds, Winchester @ 25 yrds, Rem.@25yrds

Second Picture L to R

Winchester @ 35 yrds, Federal @ 35 yrds, Winchester @ 35 yrds, Remington @ 35 yrds.

For some reason, it seems sometimes I was pulling left. Can't figure out why.

As far as which shells, I know what my thinking is, what's yours ?


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## Huntinfool (Feb 27, 2008)

Just based on the pics, I'd say Win...

But you're right.  You're pulling to the left.  It'd be interesting to see the WHOLE pattern on each.  It could just be that one load is more centered on these targets, but another is actually denser....just off to one side.


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## Bucks&Beards444 (Feb 27, 2008)

Because of an article i read on HV loads and the whole Super sonic cone breaking at 30 yards and turbulence ruining your pattern, i shoot the slower winchester double X magnums......the best shell i have found for the price.....i have been tempted to shoot to win extended range.....i just can't justify the price for them.........i'll be slining rage broadheads opening weekend anyway!
just my two cents.
ps....I will never shoot a HV load at a turkey again after seeing the pattern difference in my own test....rem 870 super mag w/ 3" hv vs. 3" XXs at 40 yards.....remmington super full choke.  13 pellets in a 3" circle vs 27 pellets.


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## tbgator (Feb 27, 2008)

brucemacgee19 said:


> that's my set up  in the pic........ consistantly puts great patterns out to 62 yds..... after 64 yds the pattern doubles!  it completely goes away.  but up to 62 yds you get the same everytime out of it.  my gun the mossberg 835 24" barrel.  that hevi and the pure gold are a great combination for a mostly low cost rig!


For sure good combination. I killed one at 65 yds last year with the Pure gold / Win XR combination on a Binelli Nova.


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## Gadget (Feb 28, 2008)

Atlsooner said:


> Went to camp recently and patterned 3 different shells (Remington, Winchester, Federals) All 3 were 3" shells, #4's. Was really disappointed in the Remingtons. Shooting a Remington Model 870 12ga. with a Hastings .660 choke.
> 
> The first picture (left to right)
> Winchester @ 35 yrds, Federals @ 35 yrds, Winchester @ 25 yrds, Rem.@25yrds
> ...




I think you need to get away from shooting turkey targets, they're too small and don't show the entire pattern so you can't pin point the center of the pattern and make accurate comparisons.

buy some construction paper


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## Gadget (Mar 5, 2008)

Gun Docc said:


> guess you learnt a trick or two from me huh Rick...
> 
> 
> the Hevi-13 loads works for me ,can't help it if I'm a dealer for em,good stuff
> ...


 


Yes, I did learn a few things @ your shop over the years Curtis.....that's for sure........




We did some more shooting with two more Benelli SBE II last weekend.

All shots were with the Winchester Xtended Range shells in 3.5 2oz #5 and #6

The Primos Jelly head shot the XR 6's very good putting 140-160 pellets in the 10" circle @ 40yds

The other gun was shooting the Rhino .660 and was getting 110-130.


The Jelly head shot noticably tighter groups


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