# Operation ROE



## Mechanicaldawg (May 26, 2010)

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## wmaybin (May 26, 2010)

I would like to request notification of reason for my post on this thread being deleted.  Thank you Mods.

This is a voluntary program at this time and whether I like the idea or not it makes sense IF THERE REALLY HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT FISH KILL.  One charter cpt. seeing "a few dead fish" here and there just doesn't do it for me.  In defense of the ones who are a bit more agitated than myself - after the red snapper closure how do you expect people to react.  We do need to protect our resources no doubt but we need to do so on good solid scientific information.  I know this is not a closure or a law, just a suggestion but you have to admitt that people are gun shy and for good reason.If the closures keep coming none of us will need our boats, our coastal properties, gas, bait, mechanics, hotels, the list goes on and on.  I guess at least we will have fewer fees and taxes to pay.  My point is burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.  
This is a public forum and this is my public opinion, if you don't like it tough.  If you want to delete it again then by all means.


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## G Duck (May 26, 2010)

It would be interesting to see what their membership numbers are like this year. If there has been an increase or decrease


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## Six million dollar ham (May 26, 2010)

That makes sense but I don't get to go fishing near as much as Dr Harper there.  Hence my own little _RUT _initiative .....
Release Under Thirteen.


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## GB Young (May 27, 2010)

*Break free!*

IF YOU ARE OPPOSED TO THIS VOLUNTARY PROGRAM....BREAK FREE FROM THE MIND CONTROL    GO CATCH AND EAT SOME 19INCH TROUT. THAT WILL TEACH THOSE MEAN OL COMMUNIST, NAZI, SOCIALLY CONDITIONING CCA FISH LOVERS........RIDICULOUS:


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## Inshore GA (May 27, 2010)

Yes, I understand the reason for ROE and have VOLANTARLY realeased quite a few trout over 18" this year and in years past. I'm a guide and I explain operation ROE to my clients when they catch a GATOR. Most have volantarly put the fish in the cooler. It's their trip and their decision. I hope that it will stay volantary. We've had cold winters in the past and the trout have always rebounded. I don't think that the creel or size limits should change...if it does we probably will never see it increase...
Just my 2 cents.


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## Paymaster (May 27, 2010)

OK, I cleaned this mess up again. The OP deleted the first thread due to my being late moderating the thing. Deal is whether you agree or not with the premise of ROE you can be respectful in your disagreement. Name calling will not be tolerated. Whether you agree or not with the OP you can do so respectfully. Whether I agree or not is of no importance. I will let the chips fall where they may when folks are disrespectful.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

G Duck said:


> It would be interesting to see what their membership numbers are like this year. If there has been an increase or decrease



CCA of GA membership is holding its own relative to the contraction similar conservation/sportsman are feeling during this economic downturn. 

Banquet attendance is steady overall with good growth in some chapters.

Fishermen who seek information rather than listening to rumor and accusation generally appreciate the efforts of the organization.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

Inshore GA said:


> Yes, I understand the reason for ROE and have VOLANTARLY realeased quite a few trout over 18" this year and in years past. I'm a guide and I explain operation ROE to my clients when they catch a GATOR. Most have volantarly put the fish in the cooler. It's their trip and their decision. I hope that it will stay volantary. We've had cold winters in the past and the trout have always rebounded. I don't think that the creel or size limits should change...if it does we probably will never see it increase.......
> Just my 2 cents.



Capt. Mark,

It is strictly voluntary and during our discussions and planning of the program everyone was adamantly in agreement that regulatory changes were not something we were interested in.

In my personal discussion with CRD employees they have told me point blank that there is no need for creel reductions or slots for trout. 

CRD does not want regulation change and are not asking for regulation change.

The preliminary numbers from the net surveys indicate that population numbers are lower than they have been in any year since the survey has been carried out but the word I got was that it was not as bad as some thought.

Hard numbers will be available soon.

I am sure that there will be detractors who will claim that the population was not effected at all just as there will be folks who will claim that, despite the survey results, it is much worse than claimed by CRD.


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## captainhook (May 27, 2010)

I personally believe in CCA. Not every organization gets it right every time but CCA's track record is very good. Their efforts have benefited the sportsman of GA as a whole. The other thing that I love about them is that our donations get spent in our area, not some far away land we will never fish. I have been a member of several other organizations that take fundraiser moneys generated in an area away never to be seen again. I no longer belong to those organizations. CCA is also a great source of knowledge about inshore fish behaviors and techniques.  
As far as ROE goes I think it is a good suggestion and should be considered when you are out there catching large numbers of big trout. Half a million eggs is a lot freeze or no. I target big trout specifically with the larger lures I use and I let the majority of them go after a quick picture. I also eat some from time to time. I admit it my family ate three over 20's a couple weeks ago but I couldn't catch any smaller ones. The rest are free.  Those will probably be the last larger trout I keep this year unless they are severely injured in their capture and I can't release them successfully. I usually let all my reds go too. I let the flounder come home if they are 17 plus if I need some fish dinner for my family.  I fish once a week at least and value leaving fish for others and for my future adventures. These are my personal decisions that no one is forcing me to make and I couldn't be happier about it. By the same token I don't expect everyone to feel the same way and I am fine with that too.


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## wmaybin (May 27, 2010)

I would be interested in seeing these preliminary net numbers as well as the final data, can you point me in the right direction please?

And by the way let me go on record and say I never said I was opposed to the idea, I simply beleive that we need to act on good evidence.


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## IdRatherBHunting (May 27, 2010)

I know that this is going to stir the pot bigtime but when I go to Florida and fish for trout it is amazing to see the quanity and quality of the catch almost "every"time. Just my personal thoughts but it seems like the limits and closures that are in place in the sunshine state have something to do with that. 

"Slot limit of not less than 15" and not more than 20" in the Northeast and South regions and not less than 15" and not more than 24" in the Northwest Region; closed season is November and December in the South region, February in the Northwest region, and December through February in the Northeast region; 5 per person per day limit in the South and Northeast regions; 7 per person per day limit in the Northwest Region; may possess one fish over the maximum size limit. South region is from Volusia-Flagler county line southward along the Atlantic and from the Pinellas-Pasco County line southward along the Gulf coast. Northeast region is waters north of the Volusia-Flagler county line. Northwest region is waters north and west of the Pinellas-Pasco County line."

Again just a personal note but I fish very often and 15 trout is alot of fish. I wonder what Ga. fishing would be like with limits like Florida? I for one will cast a top water plug for hours on end to have the opportunity at a big trout. How many more might I catch if the size limit were 15"?


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## ratherbefishin (May 27, 2010)

Why don't we all just obey the limits set by GA DNR and be done with it. If they see the need to change the regs., then they will do so. No need for CCA or any other group to get involved in something that the state of GA has been handling for years.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

wmaybin said:


> Careful there Jeffy or you may not get the option to clean the thread up yourself next time
> 
> I would be interested in seeing these preliminary net numbers as well as the final data, can you point me in the right direction please?
> 
> And by the way let me go on record and say I never said I was opposed to the idea, I simply beleive that we need to act on good evidence.



Mayby,

As I said earlier, I'll post the numbers as soon as I get it, probably early next week. I didn't take notes when the numbers were thrown at me a few days ago but I will say they concerned me as being more significant than they seemed to be to the individual who told me about them. 

I'm glad you are not opposed to the program. Many Charter Captains have been doing this already and we believe it is a worthwhile way to jump start the recovery.

If there were no net surveys done plenty of people would still act on the fact that the water was cold for a significant period and people witnessed dead fish as a result.

If anyone doesn't want to support the effort without seeing the data, they shouldn't. If the effort nets 10 participants it will have been a worthwhile effort in my opinion.

IdRatherbeHuntin,

Some people certainly share your opinion. However, many, myself included, love a fish sammich every few days. We have a good consumable resource and while we need to be good stewards of it we shouldn't cut the consumption anymore than is needed in order to sustain the stock.

I personally don't like slots and wish we could find a compromise on the slots we have in Georgia and more-so in  Florida. You have to be a savant to remember all the limits, lengths and slots. I know it's better that way but at times it takes a bit of the relaxation away.

Although it happens around here more than it should, 'feathers should not be ruffled' because you share your opinion about the fishery.


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## CUOffshore (May 27, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> we believe it is a worthwhile way to jump start the recovery.



There is a "recovery" underway?  

"Recovery" from what?  

Have you been fishing lately?

-D


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

CUOffshore said:


> There is a "recovery" underway?
> 
> "Recovery" from what?
> 
> ...



Oh boy!

Yes, I have been fishing several times lately. Caught a few trout too!

Thanks for asking!

How 'bout you?


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## CUOffshore (May 27, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> How 'bout you?



Yep...  doesn't seem like there is a "recovery"  happening to me....  good strong bite.  But I only fish when the tides are right. 

Seriously, what recovery are you talking about?

-D


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

CUOffshore said:


> Yep...  doesn't seem like there is a "recovery"  happening to me....  good strong bite.  But I only fish when the tides are right.
> 
> Seriously, what recovery are you talking about?
> 
> -D



Seriously, watch the video at the top of the thread.

Like I said, I've caught a few fish myself but are you telling me that the tides matter?


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## CUOffshore (May 27, 2010)

Seriously, you're avoiding the question.  What recovery are you talking about?

I watched the video...  "may have been", "could have been a brutal winter"...

And Wendell went fishing in the middle of the freeze and didn't catch many fish?

Doh!

Come on down to Savannah.  There is not a recovery.   I'll show you.  (We have Winter every year).

I know that you aren't going to give me a straight answer, but again, what recovery are you talking about?

-D


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

I've been to Savannah, Richmond Hill, Darien and Brunswick over the past month.

If you are insinuating that the trout population was not impacted by the record cold temperature, there are lots of people with strong credentials who disagree with you as do the net surveys.

As stated previously, if you don't think releasing big trout is a worthwhile effort, fry'em up.


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## G Duck (May 27, 2010)

I will follow the state regs untill otherwise notified.
We had record cold in the mid 80s, I have a picture of my house with 4 inches of snow on the ground on SSI. Did we have a large kill? probably so, did we have the CCA, probably not.
One thing these experts are leaving out is that things run in cycles, nature will take care of itself. It will rebound with or without out everyone participating in ROE.  This like the sky is falling global warming. Why dont they focus on industrial pollution and such.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 27, 2010)

G Duck said:


> We had record cold in the mid 80s, did we have a large kill?



How long did it take to recover?


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## G Duck (May 27, 2010)

Back then ,  never heard of  a problem, fact is we probably didnt have one. And there were larger limits on trout,       put that in the formula too. 
I dont know how long it took, point is that it did. 
This thread is going down the road you intended.


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## HOBO (May 27, 2010)

...........For what it's worth...

I feel very comfortable in saying that the charter captain featured in the video is directly responsible for killing more trout each and every year than anyone else in Georgia.....  That's not being critical,,, quite the contrary,,,, it is intended as a compliment.....  Wendell Harper is that good a trout fisherman and he fishes nearly every day of the year.....  He has no qualms at all if his charter brings their full boat limit to the dock each and every times he goes out.....

I find it just a tad ironic (and typical),,,, if not outright hypercritical that the Georgia CCA features such a noted and documented  "trout slayer" as their featured authority to present a conservation video when he is personally responsible for killing more of what he is promoting conserving than anyone else alive in Georgia..... 

Spud, director of the CRD of the DNR made this "ROE" proposal several months ago....  This is nothing new!!!   CCA is now trying to just "get on the band wagon"....

I like to trout fish as much as anyone....  I am painfully,  personally aware that our Georgia trout fishery took a big  "hit" this past winter; just how bad I don't know, nor do I believe anyone else knows just the extent as of yet.......  I do know for an absolute fact that I'm not catching nearly the numbers that I was this same time last year.....

As a personal effort I am more than willing to release some of the larger high-yield females as an effort to accelerate the rebuilding process....  Hopefully others will also..... 

Personally I believe this "ROE" proposal is a good idea and suggestion.....

It is also ironic that last year by all evidence our DNR (supported by the usual "tail wagging" CCA) was obviously laying the groundwork to reduce the redfish slot size and creel limits......  Then along came the winter of 2010.....  I have seen and caught more redfish this year that ever before.....  If anything,,,, the cold winter seemed to cause them to thrive!!!

I am a firm believer that,,, left alone,,,, Mother Nature has a way of taking care of itself......  The years from 2007 through 2009 were the best trout producing tears I can remember in my 65 years of living on the Georgia Coast......  Maybe we had too many trout for the bait supply and habitat available and this 2010 winter "trout-kill" is just Mother Nature's way of balancing things out.....  I am a firm believer that the trout that survived are the hardiest and their resulting offspring will be a more cold water resilient fish..... 

Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,  I wonder how many trout would be conserved if we just banned charter fishing for them?????  I wonder if Mr Harper and the CCA would support that..... (never mind,,,, I know that answer already)   

----------<" ){{{{*><


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## G Duck (May 27, 2010)

HOBO said:


> ...........For what it's worth...
> 
> I feel very comfortable in saying that the charter captain featured in the video is directly responsible for killing more trout each and every year than anyone else in Georgia.....  That's not being critical,,, quite the contrary,,,, it is intended as a compliment.....  Wendell Harper is that good a trout fisherman and he fishes nearly every day of the year.....  He has no qualms at all if his charter brings their full boat limit to the dock each and every times he goes out.....
> 
> ...



Ken , you hit it on the head. It took a while to sink in from watching this yesterday, but someone who kills more trout in a year, than I do in a lifetime,  asking me to release a trout over 18? That is the biggest hypocritical and arrogant thing I have ever heard.  His boats limits will decrease the fishery far more than any fish I keep over 18"
Well Said hobo


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 28, 2010)

Capt. Doss,

Thanks for the calm, straightforward, informative response.

I appreciate your support of ROE. Helping the resource is the primary concern of my efforts. 

The only thing that I would offer in response is that Wendell does, and has for quite some time, have his customers release all big trout. He does not simply suggest it. It is his rule. Those are the trout that yield the major bulk of roe that replenishes the stock.

Capt. Harper is an excellent steward of the resource who is responsible for introducing  bunch of people to the wonders of Georgia's coast. 

I see nothing ironic or hypocritical in selecting a well respected individual who understands the fishery, is in constant contact with the fishery and who obviously has a vested interest in keeping it healthy to be the spokesman for the program.


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## seaweaver (May 28, 2010)

.....and kills more trout than most in a year...(left that out)

Comparisons to other ecosystems like Florida is not applicable.
Those systems see 5x the psi than ours and they are much more accessible.


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## G Duck (May 28, 2010)

Redfish crisis, Snapper crisis, now trout crisis. Without a crisis, these folks are out of a Adgenda


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## Randy (May 28, 2010)

G Duck said:


> Ken , you hit it on the head. It took a while to sink in from watching this yesterday, but someone who kills more trout in a year, than I do in a lifetime,  asking me to release a trout over 18? That is the biggest hypocritical and arrogant thing I have ever heard.  His boats limits will decrease the fishery far more than any fish I keep over 18"
> Well Said hobo



Actually I think it shows his understanding of keeping fish and believe that keeping fish is acceptable as does the CCA.  It also shows his understanding of releasing THE fish that is most responsible for the future of the fishery.  In short it shows his REAL world understanding of what it takes to continue to have a viable fishery.  I also believe that is why the CCA chose him.  He knows our coast better than any guide I personally know. (There are many good guides I don't personally know so that is no slight to anyone.)  For the CCA to choose a person who knows and sees both sides of the arguement adds to their credibility IMO.  No I am not a member of the CCA though I will probably join since they appear be the only organization looking out for Georgia's coastal fishery.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 28, 2010)

G Duck said:


> Redfish crisis, Snapper crisis, now trout crisis. Without a crisis, these folks are out of a job.



What crisis?  What job? Other than our Executive Director, who makes no decisions on which projects we promote, we are volunteers.

Again, if you don't like CCA, that is certainly your prerogative. If you don't want to participate in ROE just don't participate.

Randy, thanks for your support. I look forward to your participation in our Athens Banquet this Fall and thank you for the donation last Fall.


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## G Duck (May 29, 2010)

This is my last post in this thread, I agree that the record low temps we had this year MAY have had a negative influence on the spec trout population. I respectfully find it strange, ( which I am entitled to do,) that the CCA chose the interview that they did. I am not totally opposed to the ROE program, just that the way it was presented. As I stated I agree with Hobos post, he pretty much summed it up. (Strangely though he is not singled out), and for some reason, MD I seem to be a target.  I have not posted negatives agianst CCA , Nor do I have a personal vendetta against them, as some on here do.  Just legitimate questions that have been answered with Jabs. Pm me in the future.


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## seaweaver (May 29, 2010)

GD the Ga COAST is full of former CCA members and chapter presidents that have BAILED out . They LIVE in this Water. They do not have to plan a week out to GET to this water. 

There is a reason they got out of CCA.

I doubt you will find many Former members...(unless they just let it slide)...That live away from the coast.  They are insulated, they have not the immersion rate, they do not have the first hand knowledge.

Ask some of the former members why they got out. 

cw


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## tcb294 (May 29, 2010)

Hobo, Good Job!

I like at 4:15 on the video..."fisherman population has increased 10 fold,,no 100 fold in the last year,,,no 10 years"..sounds as scientific as a snapper count.

Tom


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## GB Young (May 29, 2010)

It would be great to see constructive discussions instead of negative rants. Its obvious some people don't like cca, and no matter what info was posted, they would object. Thier people  live too far, they are fish killing machines (wendell), they wont let me join and be the boss. Whatever. If you don't like them don't support them. I don't believe cca's motives are sinister. It doesn't make sense.believe me when i tell you, there are people that live 200 miles from the coast, and have the means and wherewih-all to be there, that love our coast and have considerable experience.


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## seaweaver (May 30, 2010)

The road to Hades is paved w/ good intentions.
The Sierra Club's motives are never perceived as sinister either.
Wonder why BP is drilling such a hostile environment? Ask the Sierra club.

Better still, ask a former CCA member why they are...former.

I have been accidentally copied on emails between Spud and CCA heads.I have seen the collusion between progressive regulators and their "tools" of good intent in trying to pass law on junk science for the sake of control and increased revenue.

The "in crowd" always has but a few that really know what is happening. The further removed from the element of focus, the easier it is to hold the doors open and more inviting the fold appears to those who have not their foot in the water...the easier to sell the drama.

cw


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## GB Young (May 30, 2010)

*sierra club?*

Now they aren't just  nazis, communists, social conditionialists, they are just like sierra club zombies. If you don't like cca, don't support them. That is not difficult to do. I haven't heard a complaint about wendell harpers knowledge, or if his toes are in the water, just he knows too well how to catch fish. I bet spud's toes are in the water, too. These are educated, devoted professionals that care about thier lifes work. I don't see the paranoia from them, roe is a voluntary, pre-emptive program in place to help, not hurt anything. Lets just agree to disagree. It is everyones right to kill and eat whatever fish the law allows. "IN CROWD?" I know I will join now, just to be part of the "in crowd", I didn't see that in thier mission statement. That seals the deal.


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## seaweaver (Jun 8, 2010)

Chuck Mobley Told me yesterday that the CCA was  "progressive conservation organization"
I pointed out the key word was progressive and was no different than the word "regulator"and he bailed out of the building...
Of course...before that I asked him  about the lack of scientific data to substantiate his ROE posters he was dropping off, which seemed par for the course on DNR CCA collaborations(and I reminded him of the red fish crisis). 
The poor guy preferred the heat outside than what was I was giving in the AC.

The back bone is slight in that minnow.


cw


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 8, 2010)




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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 8, 2010)

Here's the graph showing the April 2010 trout catch rate (fish per net set) for the Wassaw estuary and Altamaha River Delta combined compared to the same data for the 2003 through 2006 period.

Surveys were not carried out '07-09 due to budgetary constraints.


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## G Duck (Jun 8, 2010)

I think if it showed the data from 2007,2008,2009, It may have shown a rebound from 2005, and hopefully that is what will happen in the next couple of seasons.


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## fishdog (Jun 8, 2010)

IdRatherBHunting said:


> I know that this is going to stir the pot bigtime but when I go to Florida and fish for trout it is amazing to see the quanity and quality of the catch almost "every"time. Just my personal thoughts but it seems like the limits and closures that are in place in the sunshine state have something to do with that.
> 
> "Slot limit of not less than 15" and not more than 20" in the Northeast and South regions and not less than 15" and not more than 24" in the Northwest Region; closed season is November and December in the South region, February in the Northwest region, and December through February in the Northeast region; 5 per person per day limit in the South and Northeast regions; 7 per person per day limit in the Northwest Region; may possess one fish over the maximum size limit. South region is from Volusia-Flagler county line southward along the Atlantic and from the Pinellas-Pasco County line southward along the Gulf coast. Northeast region is waters north of the Volusia-Flagler county line. Northwest region is waters north and west of the Pinellas-Pasco County line."
> 
> Again just a personal note but I fish very often and 15 trout is alot of fish. I wonder what Ga. fishing would be like with limits like Florida? I for one will cast a top water plug for hours on end to have the opportunity at a big trout. How many more might I catch if the size limit were 15"?



Banning gill nets in the early 90's may have helped the inshore fish in Fla.


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## seaweaver (Jun 8, 2010)

incomplete data....

where was ROE and the progressive regulators back then?

sure wish ol Chucky could have stuck around...

A red fish stamp will solve those financial woes.
cw


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 8, 2010)

G Duck said:


> I think if it showed the data from 2007,2008,2009, It may have shown a rebound from 2005, and hopefully that is what will happen in the next couple of seasons.



I think you are right about the missing years and hope you are right about the coming years.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 8, 2010)

seaweaver said:


> incomplete data....
> 
> where was ROE and the progressive regulators back then?
> 
> ...



Chris, you didn't even get his name right, much less the message.

Did you take a ROE poster with you to post at your place?


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## seaweaver (Jun 8, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Here's the graph showing the April 2010 trout catch rate (fish per net set) for the Wassaw estuary and Altamaha River Delta combined compared to the same data for the 2003 through 2006 period.
> 
> Surveys were not carried out '07-09 due to budgetary constraints.




http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=national&year=2005&month=14&submitted=Get+Report


http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=national&year=2005&month=1&submitted=Get+Report




2005 January temperatures were above average across much of the southern U.S. and in particular in the Southwest. 
hummmm.
cw


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## Six million dollar ham (Jun 8, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Surveys were not carried out '07-09 due to budgetary constraints.



I'm glad you posted this.    Since there's nothing for 07-09 the bar for 2010 could be significantly higher than those years, particularly 2009.  Is that ridiculous?  If so, prove it.  If you resort to water temperatures again, that means we're back to square one.  This graph should be embarrassing to whomever produced it (it's heretofore an uncited source).  

If anything, as the numbers from 2005-2006 show, the numbers can rebound without ROE.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 8, 2010)

So Ham? You are saying that you think the trout stock was lower last year than this year.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jun 8, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> So Ham? You are saying that you think the trout stock was lower last year than this year.



Link to where I said that?  

But I infer from your calling me crazy (via the "crazy" emoticon) that such an assumption, despite my having not made it, is indeed wrong.  Can you prove it with your bar graph?  Also, were there more or less trout in 2007 as compared to 2008?  Thanks, I eagerly await your response.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 9, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Since there's nothing for 07-09 the bar for 2010 could be significantly higher than those years, particularly 2009.  Is that ridiculous?



Well, there you go. To answer your question, yes, it is absolutely ridiculous.

Nothing surprising about you two wanting to cause a ruckus over ROE.

Your intentions are glass.


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## seaweaver (Jun 9, 2010)

CCA is a progresive conservation organization-Chuck Mobley

and Progressives will utilize what ever means to enact their regulatory agenda including social conditioning to fictitious crisis's based on Junk science.


How  far can one see when standing on the hill of noble intent?

cw


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 9, 2010)

seaweaver said:


> CCA is a progresive conservation organization-Chuck Mobley
> 
> and Progressives will utilize what ever means to enact their regulatory agenda including social conditioning to fictitious crisis's based on Junk science.
> 
> ...



Again, you did not even get his name correct much less the message.

He called me as he was leaving the marina and it took me a while to understand him through his laughter. 

"Social conditioning!" "Social conditioning!"

If it's any consultation he didn't remember your name either but once he told me you kept using "social conditioning!" I told him your name. He was a little amazed and wanted to know how I knew.

At any rate, I've got you marked down as "1" against ROE.

Glad we got that out of the way.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jun 9, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Well, there you go. To answer your question, yes, it is absolutely ridiculous.



Why is it ridiculous?  Can you prove it?  Of course not.  All you can do is assume it.  An extension of this is the one grand assumption that is the entire basis for ROE.  

It's entirely possible that so many trout were reared last year such that the net effect after a massive fish kill (let's assume that) is still more trout that last year.  Do I have data to support that?  Of course not.  Neither do you for the opposite though.  The difference is I haven't gone public with some dubious supposition.



Mechanicaldawg said:


> Nothing surprising about you two wanting to cause a ruckus over ROE.
> 
> Your intentions are glass.



I just want good data.  Considering what you've presented, I have yet to see it.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 9, 2010)

What I really like is that it appears to be a big ole bur under your saddle.

Opposition from someone who is so out of touch that they believe the trout population is higher this spring than it was last spring only helps.

Thanks.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jun 9, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> What I really like is that it appears to be a big ole bur under your saddle.



How mature.  What is your relationship to CCA again?



Mechanicaldawg said:


> Opposition from someone who is so out of touch that they believe the trout population is higher this spring than it was last spring only helps.



Here you are clearly just making stuff up.  It's something of a pattern, imho.  Not to mention I ask for data and you resort to personal insults.  I think I've seen and said all I need to on this matter.  Thanks!


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 9, 2010)

There is no 'personal insult' in my post.

If you didn't state whether or not you think the population was higher in '09 than in '10, then state it clearly.

I want your opinion.


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## G Duck (Jun 9, 2010)

I think if CCA added a boxing ring at thier next banquet, there would be more attendance............


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## Mechanicaldawg (Jun 9, 2010)

I may suggest a dunking booth!


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