# B-50 vs. fast flight discussion



## RogerB (May 22, 2008)

I was just sitting here thinking "is fast flight (and other high tech) string material really worth the possible bow damage they may cause".
I know and understand we shouldn't be shooting fast flight on our older bows, it will destroy them, so that is not what I am wondering about.

Here is what I am wondering about, I have also heard of people having modern bow limbs come appart when shooting. I don't think there is really any way to determine or prove if the string material caused it or something else did. But, I have to assume the shock placed on limbs by these new "no stretch" material is not good for limbs and "may" cause "some" of the failures. If this is the case, is the increase in speed really worth it.
I not even sure how much that increase is, I have heard 5-10 fps, and assume that is correct, but I haven't measured one of my bows.
If this is a thread worthy of discussion, I would like to know what others think.


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## PAPALAPIN (May 22, 2008)

I have no fastflite bows so it is a mute point with me.   Obviously I am not going to put fastflite on my older bows.

My interest would be in opinions of B-50 endless loop VS Flemmish, but that is another topic.  Don't want to side track you here.


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## John Cooper (May 22, 2008)

for me it boils down to personal preferance(sp) i like B-50 cause it's easier on your bow and is most of the time quiter.....that being said i have a pronhorn that i just put a TS1 sting on and it is quiter than the B-50 i took off.  go figure.......LOL


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## Dennis (May 22, 2008)

From my limited experance i like the way longbows shoot with ff and i like b50 on recurves. I've only heard of tip problems with older bows that people put ff on


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## RogerB (May 22, 2008)

I hear you Dennis, but when ever someone puts FF on an old bow and has a limb failure, they always blame it on the FF string (probably correct), but when they have a limb failure on a modern bow with a FF string they never blame it on the string. How sure are we that the FF was the reason on the older bow but not on the new one?

Papalapin, I agree, a discussion on endless loop vs flemmish twist would be good, I have found I like one on some bows and the other on others. Sure would like to figure out why.


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## Apex Predator (May 22, 2008)

Never met a FF string I liked!  I thought I was close with a TS-1 string on my Hill, but it's still noisier than my B-50.  I have tried bunches of bows with both and always settle on the B-50.  I'm actually tired of looking for FF that I like better.  I am set up to build many colors with B-50 and am gonna stick with it!  I don't think you will find a bow that is 10 fps faster.  I think 5 fps is pretty standard in gain.


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## notnksnemor (May 22, 2008)

Not to derail the discussion, but rather than FF or B-50, I'm curious about strand count.
Would a 12 strand on a 70lb. bow cause damage as compared to a 14 strand.
It seems you can use a lower strand count string (B-50)on a higher poundage bow and get the same results as using a FF string.


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## PAPALAPIN (May 22, 2008)

That is a new topic.  Lets not side track Rogers thread.

I will start a new one.  Jump in


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## robert carter (May 22, 2008)

I`m with dennis. I like fastflyte on longbows and dacron on recurves. But then again I don`t like recurves much. I believe ff on a longbow stops some handshock.RC


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## RogerB (May 23, 2008)

RC, that's an interesting statment "I believe ff on a longbow stops some handshock". I would have guessed just the opposite. Got any theories why? To feel hand shock, the limbs would have to be transmitting it to the riser/handle. So I would have thought more shock to the limbs caused buy no/little streach of FF would result in more hand shock. Maybe the limbs (using b-50) traveling past where they would if using FF, and then being jerked back is what causes shock rather that the abrupt stop. Is hand shock and kick the same thing?
I think the string count thread is a good one too. Didn't realize I was going to stir up so much, but I like it!! I don't know the physics but I would "guess" that lower string count would allow the string to streach more, therefore compsating for the additional shock from extra speed (on B-50). My only concern would be will the string be strong enough?

Now I am helping get off subject!!


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## robert carter (May 23, 2008)

I`ve played with both on bows I made and I believe the added viberation from a dacron adds handshock.I do know I could feel a difference.I shoot fastflyte on my Hill bow and its not super quiet but quiet enough with little handshock and for a straight end bow thats good.RC


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## returntoarchery (May 23, 2008)

There was a good article in Traditional Bowhunter that covered testing of FF and B-50 strings. Don't recall what issue at the moment or all the findings but as I recall the tester didn't loose all that must speed with the B-50 strings on the bows he tested.

I'll dig up that issue this weekend an refresh my memory and post what I find.


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## Dennis (May 23, 2008)

When shooting FF on a longbow you have to shoot 10 to 15 lbs heaver spined arrow than when shooting dacron. i wonder if those arrows that were spined heaver, weighs more and the added weight makes the longbow seem to have less handshock


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## markland (May 23, 2008)

Actually FF is so old school, no need in shooting it anymore.  I really like and use 8125 on all my bows now.  
Never did like Dacron but use it on older bows so as to not damage them.  But always hated the spongy feel to it when drawing and there is some extra limb movement with dacron on most bows.  
High performance materials will definitely shoot better on most bows that will handle them and are quiet when set up properly plus I too feel like there is less hand shock with them.   I prefer endless loop strings as well, less creep to them, IMHO and double pad the loops to protect the limb tips.  Padding the limb tips will help with most noise problems as well, plus most newer string materials are more durable as well.  I use either 18 or 20 strands of 8125 on my strings and braided center serving, just depends on what arrows or nocks I am shooting.  I like my nock to keep my arrow on the string and not fall off too easily!  Mark


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## RogerB (May 23, 2008)

I agree about FF being old school, I was just using the term as a catch all for the more modern string materials (low/no stretch) vs. B-50. The merits of the different low/no stretch materials is good fodder for another thread (I see a lot of posts about the merits of D-97). I would ask about your statement "High performance materials will definitely shoot better on most bows", what is your definition of "better"? Faster, I agree, not sure that is the only definition of better, or even the best one. Honestly, I can't feel a difference in the two when drawing a bow.


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## markland (May 27, 2008)

I think D-97 and 8125 are probably the 2 most popular for most recurve applications with 450Plus still being popular for longbows. 
As in "better" I am referring to not only performance, but feel when drawing, durability of the material, reduction in limb movement and vibrations after the shot and less vibration in the bow as well.  Drawing a B-50 strung bow to me always felt "spongy" whereas a high performance strung bow is taught when drawing and I can definitely feel less limb movement in the bow after the shot as well.  Plus it allows me to shoot a slightly stiffer arrow, which translates into a normally heavier shaft and a little performance and energy gain as well.  For me, they just shoot and feel better and I like the way my bows shoot with it, but's that just me!!!!  Mark


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## SOS (May 27, 2008)

Looking back at some test numbers I did with El Cheapo, I gained about 7 fps on a light 425 grain arrow and 3-4 on a 560 grain arrow using a string ArrowSlinger made for me that I think is actually FF.  You gain some from less stretch and the ability to make a lighter string - skinner strands plus often fewer of them.  Most people weave four or six extra strands in each end to "pad" the loops.


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## RogerB (May 28, 2008)

markland,
that's good information! keep it coming!! I am building a WARF with new modern (not expensive) limbs and I would like to use modern string material on it (even though I use B-50 on everthing else) the new bow will be a bit more weight than my other bows, I hope to make it my hunting bow, so I would like the idea of preformance gain without going up too much in weight.


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