# 20g steel #5s for woodies? About to ditch the 12.....



## White0ak (Dec 9, 2019)

Figure the 20g is up to killin some woodies this year. Ditching the ol 12g given these woodies are in timber and usually in our faces <30 yards or so. 

Anyone here shoot 20g at ducks or can attest to the success of a 20g? 

Thinking a modified with #5s would be fun on timber woodies.....thoughts on this?


----------



## DRBugman85 (Dec 9, 2019)

I've shot Wood ducks with a 20 ga for years,#4 Winchester & improve cylinder is my favorite.


----------



## Duckbuster82 (Dec 9, 2019)

I know a good number of people that only shoot 20 gauge at ducks and geese year round. I have a friend who has a plantation club and you are not allowed anything over 20 there. I have bounced back and forth between the two and stick with the 12 for waterfowl but have gone strictly 20 for turkeys.


----------



## Dustin Pate (Dec 9, 2019)

All I shoot is my 20 gauge. I agree with the #4 and Improved Cylinder. Absolutely deadly combination in Georgia.


----------



## trad bow (Dec 9, 2019)

Yes. IC and six shot when hunting small creeks and small beaver pond while woodcock hunting. If I get a limit of woodcock then I’ll swap over to four shot IC.


----------



## stringmusic (Dec 9, 2019)

What exactly is the point in shooting a 20g? Just the challenge of having to get them closer?


----------



## Duckbuster82 (Dec 9, 2019)

Some people like to shoot the gun, it’s lighter and doesn’t kick as hard. I have shot with plenty of guys that shoot them and they shoot just as well as the 12 gauge guys. By your theory we should all be shooting 10gauge. I have shot the 20 and had plenty of success but really shoot my 12 better so I stick with it.


----------



## delacroix (Dec 9, 2019)

Steel fours are fine jump shooting.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 11, 2019)

I'm with you on ditching the heavy artillery for something lighter. I'm ditching my 20 for a 28 gauge.

Had pretty significant neck surgery 2 years ago. Everything seems to be in good shape, but can't shoot a 12 (and doubt I ever will again (giving my M2 to my son in law)). A 20's pretty rough as well (numb neck and tingling fingers with heavy turkey loads). There's some things you just don't want to mess with.

I've been shooting turkeys with a 20 gauge with home grown TSS for probably 5 or 6 years (long before the neck issue). Changed to the 28 this past spring with good success.

I'm headed duck hunting for the first time in a long time (2 or 3 years) this Saturday (at least first time to shoot). Hoping to bust some woodies.

I'll be taking a Remington 28 gauge 870 Wingmaster. Have loaded a batch of TSS/Steel duplex shells. Shooting a hand loaded shell with 7/8 ounce load.

Will be 45% #9 TSS with 55% #4 coated steel shot on top ( TSS 9's hit like 4's - just get more pattern density). Will have 204 or so hard hitting pellets traveling at 1370 FPS. Have patterned the shells and it's a devastating load at 30 yards using either an IC or a Mod factory choke (I plan to use the IC).

Just for comparison, if I were shooting a 12 gauge 1 1/4 ounce load I'd have 156 pellets headed down range. The 28 gauge blend has roughly 30% more pellets headed towards the duck. and it's moving at a pretty good pace.

The cost of duck killing bullets is going up but I just want to still be able to go (we take a lot for granted in our lives and hunting has been a reality check for me the past couple of years).

Will be with my son in law and two young grandsons Saturday morning. Hope this gun and ammo is a winning combination (otherwise in the future I'll be cooking breakfast for them while they're in the pond (or maybe will work on some 410 blended shells)).

A lot of people embrace TSS and a lot of people hate the whole TSS issue, but for turkeys it's been a game changer for me. Hopefully for ducks I'll also be able to successfully shoot a lighter load in a smaller gauge shotgun and be no worse the wear for it.

I'm excited about this coming Saturday morning.


----------



## Core Lokt (Dec 12, 2019)

Been shooting a 20 for 4 seasons now for duck, turkey and dove.


----------



## Throwback (Dec 12, 2019)

stringmusic said:


> What exactly is the point in shooting a 20g? Just the challenge of having to get them closer?


Here we go...


----------



## stringmusic (Dec 12, 2019)

Duckbuster82 said:


> Some people like to shoot the gun, it’s lighter and doesn’t kick as hard. I have shot with plenty of guys that shoot them and they shoot just as well as the 12 gauge guys. By your theory we should all be shooting 10gauge. I have shot the 20 and had plenty of success but really shoot my 12 better so I stick with it.


I don’t have a theory, I just asked a question.

And to flip it, a 4/10 is lighter and doesn’t kick as hard as a 20.


----------



## stringmusic (Dec 12, 2019)

Throwback said:


> Here we go...


I honestly just wanted to know. I don’t think this forum has enough traffic anymore to have a huge debate.


----------



## Whit90 (Dec 12, 2019)

stringmusic said:


> I honestly just wanted to know. I don’t think this forum has enough traffic anymore to have a huge debate.



I dont have a 20ga, nor am I an avid duck hunter, but I would just assume that its because a 12 may be over kill? A 20 is lighter and kicks less?

Seems like common sense to me. If the smaller gun can kill them just as dead as bigger gun, then why not shoot the smaller gun?... no-brainer to me.


----------



## stringmusic (Dec 12, 2019)

whitney90 said:


> I dont have a 20ga, nor am I an avid duck hunter, but I would just assume that its because a 12 may be over kill? A 20 is lighter and kicks less?
> 
> Seems like common sense to me. If the smaller gun can kill them just as dead as bigger gun, then why not shoot the smaller gun?... no-brainer to me.


See post 12.

A BB gun will kill’em if you hit them tween the eyes. That’s about as light and least amount of kick you can get.


----------



## Whit90 (Dec 12, 2019)

stringmusic said:


> See post 12.
> 
> A BB gun will kill’em if you hit them tween the eyes. That’s about as light and least amount of kick you can get.



You said you honestly wanted to know why anyone would want to shoot a 20ga and that his forum does not get enough traffic for a debate, but it looks like your looking for a debate. Again, I am not an avid duck guy. A 4-10 may be doable, but in my mind it may not have enough power behind it for people to feel comfortable enough to consistently kill ducks with it. Theres a big difference between a 20ga and a 4-10.  

Thats all I've got for you. I dont think I am doing you any good with the info that I have for ya.


----------



## stringmusic (Dec 12, 2019)

whitney90 said:


> You said you honestly wanted to know why anyone would want to shoot a 20ga and that his forum does not get enough traffic for a debate, but it looks like your looking for a debate. Again, I am not an avid duck guy. A 4-10 may be doable, but in my mind it may not have enough power behind it for people to feel comfortable enough to consistently kill ducks with it. Theres a big difference between a 20ga and a 4-10.
> 
> Thats all I've got for you. I dont think I am doing you any good with the info that I have for ya.


That’s an honest answer and I appreciate it. I can see the logic behind that.


----------



## BeerThirty (Dec 12, 2019)

stringmusic said:


> What exactly is the point in shooting a 20g? Just the challenge of having to get them closer?



I think if you read the OP he's stating that his shots are much closer, so, in his specific situation, there are several factors that make a 20 more ideal shotgun. More specifically, a 12 is overkill for him, he doesn't need the additional range or power as it probably damages the wood duck meat pretty bad. I don't think he's implying he's trying to challenge himself. Other guys, maybe, but not the OP.


----------



## Whit90 (Dec 12, 2019)

stringmusic said:


> That’s an honest answer and I appreciate it. I can see the logic behind that.




Although, the age of the 4-10 for ducks may be on the way now that theres a 4-10 turkey gun. who knows!


----------



## Throwback (Dec 12, 2019)

Ammo and firearm technology changes make what was needed 25 years ago obsolete. When I was a teen the big thing for turkeys was the 10 gauge.


----------



## Dustin Pate (Dec 12, 2019)

The reason you don't see but a small amount .410 or .28 gauge waterfowl hunting is due to the lack of commercial ammunition. I do believe that is about to start changing due to TSS and the like. I would have no problem using my .410 on wood ducks, but it just isn't feasible. I have looked into rolling my own and may do so soon. 

I think most people are looking for a weight savings in the gun and a lighter recoiling gun. Honestly, there are 12 ga. guns that probably kick equal to a 20 ga. at this point with gas technology and recoil pads. Personally, I have always liked the 20 gauge and the somewhat challenge of less shot.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 12, 2019)

All these are interesting conversations with no real rights or wrongs. 

Regardless, if you'll read my earlier posts you'll know that going small is the difference between being able to hunt and not for me, so I'm forced to do it or give up hunting. 

That said, I put up the 12 gauge for turkeys many years ago. Just don't have to prove anything by shooting a howitzer at something that needs a pea shooter to kill. TSS truly does make that difference.

I took a high school kid turkey hunting last year and he kilt his first bird. A heck of a gobbler with long spurs and beard. He killed him at 43 yards with my 28 gauge 870 with a Sumtoy choke (throwing a 1 1/2 ounce load of #9 TSS). Absolutely smoked the bird. 

Walking to the bird the young man asked me why my gun didn't kick. My answer: cause I don't need it to. 

I'm gonna try to shoot some woodies this weekend. I think there's a real good chance that I'll kill more birds shooting a 7/8 ounce load through a 28 gauge than anyone else will kill shooting 1 1/4 ounce 3" loads in a 12 gauge. Not that I'm that great a shot, but ballistically I don't think I'm giving anything up to the 12 gauge guys by shooting the 28. Not with my blended load (honestly think I might have them out gunned). 

For me it's necessary. But I'm also hoping my 8 year old grandson will learn to love hunting ducks with that 28 gauge (and then he can decide later if he wants to move up). 

For most going smaller is just more pleasant. And that doesn't make them less of a man. It just means it's more pleasant.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 12, 2019)

Dustin Pate said:


> I do believe that is about to start changing due to TSS and the like. I would have no problem using my .410 on wood ducks, but it just isn't feasible. I have looked into rolling my own and may do so soon.
> .



Blended loads are the ticket. Combo of #9 TSS and #4 steel.

For the way my mind's wired theres a great deal of satisfaction in killing turkeys (and I imagine ducks) with shells I literally hand loaded.


----------



## Throwback (Dec 12, 2019)

Dustin Pate said:


> The reason you don't see but a small amount .410 or .28 gauge waterfowl hunting is due to the lack of commercial ammunition. I do believe that is about to start changing due to TSS and the like. I would have no problem using my .410 on wood ducks, but it just isn't feasible. I have looked into rolling my own and may do so soon.
> 
> I think most people are looking for a weight savings in the gun and a lighter recoiling gun. Honestly, there are 12 ga. guns that probably kick equal to a 20 ga. at this point with gas technology and recoil pads. Personally, I have always liked the 20 gauge and the somewhat challenge of less shot.



I may end up buying a 20 gauge at some point due to my shoulder. I’ll be buying the one that recoils the least   Weight of the gun would be secondary


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 12, 2019)

Throwback said:


> I’ll be buying the one that recoils the least   Weight of the gun would be secondary



That might well be the Beretta Xplor. 

I was gonna buy one but not sure my home grown blended shells would cycle through it.


----------



## Throwback (Dec 12, 2019)

It’s similar to the 45/40/9mm pistol debate

In the 90’s there was a need for the 40 S&W
Today with bullet and powder Technology the 9mm can be just as effective, weigh less, cost less and give you more rounds in a magazine


----------



## RedHills (Dec 12, 2019)

White0ak said:


> Figure the 20g is up to killin some woodies this year. Ditching the ol 12g given these woodies are in timber and usually in our faces <30 yards or so.
> 
> Anyone here shoot 20g at ducks or can attest to the success of a 20g?
> 
> Thinking a modified with #5s would be fun on timber woodies.....thoughts on this?


I love my 20's for everything...guess it's just a matter of confidence as in all else. Game calls or guns or whatever, confidence kills.


----------



## Throwback (Dec 12, 2019)

RedHills said:


> I love my 20's for everything...guess it's just a matter of confidence as in all else. Game calls or guns or whatever, confidence kills.


I have a single shot 410 I’d rather shoot doves with than my 12 gauge 1187


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 13, 2019)

Throwback said:


> I have a single shot 410 I’d rather shoot doves with than my 12 gauge 1187


I know this is waterfowl, but I loaded up 410 shells with TSS the spring after neck surgery. Just couldn't shoot anything heavier (and probably shouldn't have been shooting that 3 1/2 months after getting plates and screws in my neckbones).

Kilt a mighty nice turkey (that I had to work really hard to convince to come see me). Ugly old Winchester model 37 single shot 410 strapped to a Bog Pod mount did the deed (used the BP to minimize the recoil). Happiest I've ever been to kill a turkey cause I thought wasn't going to get to turkey hunt at all).

Smoked him at 28 yards (never a doubt).

I've kilt a buncha doves with a 28 gauge over the years. The 28's a ballistically strong choice that I have a lot of confidence in.


----------



## SC Hunter (Dec 13, 2019)

I have killed a pile of critters in 30 short years of walking this earth and I would say about 75% of them have been with a 20 gauge. My first shotguns were a bps 20 gauge and a youth 870 20 gauge, both grandfathers gave me a gun on my 12th birthday. Those 2 shotguns killed alot of dove, ducks, a few geese, a few deer and some squirrels. Later on I went to 12 gauges getting an A5, I now own 3 of those and love them but never shoot them much. About 8 years ago I bought another 870 youth model 20 gauge that had been worked on by gun docc and started turkey hunting with it with great success. I bought a stoeger 3020 the year they came out and have not shot my 12 gauges for anything since then. I shoot the gun so well that I do not feel under gunned in the least bit. The advancement in ammunition technology has changed so much in the past decade that a 20 gauge is not at any disadvantage that I can come up with except maybe shooting geese over decoys but even then it will work. I will buy my stepson a youth 870 of his own soon as he expresses any interest in it but for now he is more about baseball than anything and I am fine with that. The little 20 poppers will always have a spot in my safe.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 14, 2019)

Bubba_1122 said:


> I'm gonna try to shoot some woodies this weekend. I think there's a real good chance that I'll kill more birds shooting a 7/8 ounce load through a 28 gauge than anyone else will kill shooting 1 1/4 ounce 3" loads in a 12 gauge. Not that I'm that great a shot, but ballistically I don't think I'm giving anything up to the 12 gauge guys by shooting the 28. Not with my blended load (honestly think I might have them out gunned).



Well, that was a whole lot of fun.

Limited out quickly. That 7/8 ounce TSS/Steel blend load is deadly in a 28 gauge 870 with a Briley light mod choke.


----------



## jasper181 (Dec 17, 2019)

I use my 28 almost exclusively for Pheasant and they are just as dead as the ones killed with anything else. The 28 is just about perfect ballistic wise, much more efficient than a 20. I've shot plenty of ducks with it, however I do like having that extra hp of the 12 for big ducks at a distance.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 17, 2019)

jasper181 said:


> I use my 28 almost exclusively for Pheasant and they are just as dead as the ones killed with anything else. The 28 is just about perfect ballistic wise, much more efficient than a 20. I've shot plenty of ducks with it, however I do like having that extra hp of the 12 for big ducks at a distance.



The TSS/steel blend is a phenomenol option around here. I'll generally have some ringers late season. Won't hesitate for a minute to use the 28 with the TSS/steel blend.


----------



## mattuga (Dec 17, 2019)

If all you shoot is decoying birds you can choose the lower stuff.  Most decent duck hunting involves pass shooting opportunity, 12 gauge all day.  They just don't kick that hard like people think. The advice on the TSS loads seems legit and I've used them with success but not enough to say I'll stop shooting regular #2 steel loads.


----------



## jasper181 (Dec 19, 2019)

Bubba_1122 said:


> The TSS/steel blend is a phenomenol option around here. I'll generally have some ringers late season. Won't hesitate for a minute to use the 28 with the TSS/steel blend.


I love the 28, shells could definitely be cheaper though.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Dec 20, 2019)

jasper181 said:


> I love the 28, shells could definitely be cheaper though.



Rationalization is an art.

I just finished loading shells for tomorrow morning.  My cost of home loaded TSS/steel blended shells ain't cheap (about $1.35-1.40 a shell - the biggest part of that is definitely the TSS). Still, in my situation (because of neck surgery 2 years ago) it's shoot the 28 or not duck hunt. And if I gotta shoot the 28 I want a shell that gives me a chance to kill em and not wound em (not a lot of quality factory duck hunting shells to be found out there for a 28).

With the shells I'm shooting I honestly feel like I have an equal (or better) shell than the guys shooting a 3" 12 gauge load of 4's (I'm putting significantly more pellets out there in a very nice pattern traveling just under 1400 FPS).

I've rationalized the cost with the fact that I can't shoot the bigger guns and it's either pay the cost for the 28 blended shells or stay in bed. I don't like to stay in bed.

Over the season if I end up shooting 150 shells (I shot 10 last week and dropped one in the water loading the gun  (ugh)) I'll have spent 60 cents a shell more than I would have shooting Kent Fasteel I used to use. That's not a whole lot.

I've definitely wasted a lot more on things I enjoy a lot less.


----------

