# Rod help



## ericflowers (Feb 1, 2010)

I need a expert opinion to help me decide.  I go to to the panhandle in the summertime and fish the piers.  Last year we were catching big kings on cigars but i couldnt get the distance i wanted out of my casting.  I would like to know what you prefer using as far as rods go to get the distance throwing those cigs out there as far as you can on a king rig.  If i could get some length suggestions and even certain models it would be a huge help.  Its just hard to decide by looking at pictures in catalogs and not doing it enough to know.


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## PaulD (Feb 1, 2010)

I would recommend atleast a 11' rod, also you better learn how to cast it cause there is a definate technique to reall launching them.


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## ericflowers (Feb 1, 2010)

I mean i know how to cast but the other guys which were mainly locals looked to be using 7-8 foot rods and would get 20-40 yards more distance.  It seemed like their guides were larger and the rods stiffer.  Does that make that much distance on the heavier live baits?


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## PaulD (Feb 1, 2010)

Well, over sized guides will make a difference to a small extent. as far as a stiffer rod you have to match your rod to the weight of the bait you are tossing and it'll make a big difference. If you over load your rod blank it won't "whip" the bait out as you follow through, it'll just kinda lob it a high angler because you over load the spine of the blank, where as if you under load it and try to toss a bait that is to light for the blank it'll throw it short and at a very, very low angler. Like just in front of your feet. This is why each blank has a recommended weight of lure to throw with it and it makes a big difference. The blanks of each a rod will not only load differently under different loads but also load at different points with in the blank when you cast them. This is known as action. The faster the action the higher on the blank it will load. As a general rule of thumb I prefer a medium-fast action which loads about 2/3 of the way up the blank when I cast it. You really have to have a rod that the blank is rated for the weight of lure or bait you are tossing. It makes a big difference if you start over loading the blank. Then there is the technique.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 1, 2010)

ericflowers said:


> I mean i know how to cast but the other guys which were mainly locals looked to be using 7-8 foot rods and would get 20-40 yards more distance.  It seemed like their guides were larger and the rods stiffer.  Does that make that much distance on the heavier live baits?



Those guys, most likely, were using custom made outfits originally designed for throwing to cobia. The oversized guides aid in sight-casting live eels to cobia.

Many of us have started using them for more purposes than their original intent. They are great for getting good distance our of cigars and other live bait on busting bait pods without the need of weights.

Also, you may have noticed that some of the guys were using bail-less spinning reels. You can purchase a reel that is bail-less or, in some cases, you can purchase a conversion kit. I've converted a couple of my Penn's. Not sure about other brands.

Howell's Tackle, Half Hitch, Bluewater Outfitters all carry decent custom cobia rods and combos at reasonable prices.


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## PaulD (Feb 1, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Those guys, most likely, were using custom made outfits originally designed for throwing to cobia. .



Actually gulf coast Cobia outfits were originally surf and pier rods that were taken into use by anglers to toss baits at cobia, not the other way around.


Also, make sure you are using braid and not mono, big difference there.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 1, 2010)

You should be able to zoom into this picture to see if this looks like the rod they were using.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 1, 2010)

Eric, you can go into a shop and order a 'cobia rod' or  one of those 'rods that was originally surf and pier rods that were taken into use by anglers to toss baits at cobia'.

However, you'll most likely find it easier to ask for or look in the rack labeled 'cobia rod'.


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## jamrens (Feb 1, 2010)

Where i am from we use 15Ft one piece rods with over sized eyes that with the rite weight can be launched about 200 yards. I whould go with a 8 foot med action rod and see how it goes from there. ...


Whit


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## jonkayak (Feb 1, 2010)

M-H Shakespeare's  Ugly Stik should put you in the game. Look at model number BWS1102 or BWS1100. It may be a little heavy but for the money the Ugly Stick are hard to beat.  They should have a strong enough spine and big enough eyes to let you rip the line on out there.  

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...1_19912_151002002_151000000_151002000_151-2-2

Another thing not to over look the reel's spool. Several reels have spools that hold a lot of line but very few are actually designed for distance casting. Try looking at the surf fishing forums and look for the guys try to cast a mile (not really but... you get the point) and see what they are using.


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## ericflowers (Feb 2, 2010)

all the help is appreciated, thank you all!


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## BrownBomber (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello everyone, first post here- just signed up yesterday. Eric you will need a rod 8' to 9' long with a fairly soft tip but plenty of backbone.  As someone else already posted almost all of the regulars will be using custom made rods,  but they are king rods built for casting live baits. A cobia rod will not be suitable for casting cigars. If you are only making a couple trips a year you should be able to get by with a off the shelf surf style rod rated for around 12-30 lb line and 3/4 -3 oz lures. If you care to spend a little more, half hitch tackle in PC and Destin has their in house pier king and cobia rods in 8 and 9 ft lengths that will do the job nicely for a little over 100 dollars. A full custom rod depending what you put in it will cost at least twice that.  What lb test line are you using? 15 to 17 lb test is plenty for kings and will increase your casting distance considerably if youre using too heavy line.


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## ericflowers (Feb 2, 2010)

BrownBomber said:


> Hello everyone, first post here- just signed up yesterday. Eric you will need a rod 8' to 9' long with a fairly soft tip but plenty of backbone.  As someone else already posted almost all of the regulars will be using custom made rods,  but they are king rods built for casting live baits. A cobia rod will not be suitable for casting cigars. If you are only making a couple trips a year you should be able to get by with a off the shelf surf style rod rated for around 12-30 lb line and 3/4 -3 oz lures. If you care to spend a little more, half hitch tackle in PC and Destin has their in house pier king and cobia rods in 8 and 9 ft lengths that will do the job nicely for a little over 100 dollars. A full custom rod depending what you put in it will cost at least twice that.  What lb test line are you using? 15 to 17 lb test is plenty for kings and will increase your casting distance considerably if youre using too heavy line.



i was using 20# and some told me that might be to light but it did fine until flipper got ahold of my 30# king and sent the head back.  That was the first experience i had with trying to reel in a big fish and keep it from dolphins and then try to pull it out of their mouths.  those things are such a pain when they come around!


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## BrownBomber (Feb 3, 2010)

20lb is not too light. You will get better casting distance plus much better reel capacity with 15lb. With kings you'll only  be using 3 or 4 lbs of drag at the most anyway. When flipper decides he wants your king about all you can do is open the bail and let the king try and outrun him.


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## ericflowers (Feb 4, 2010)

Yeah, i ended up getting a nice bonita in after flipper chased it for 20 minutes.  Momma just happened to pick my king as the one to teach her little one to hunt with.


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## T-Boy (Feb 4, 2010)

I fished the pier everyday in Sept and watched and learned a lot.

An 8 or 9 foot rod is plenty of length and you will rarely see someone fishing for Kings on the PIER with one longer. Usually, a rod rated for 12 to 25lb line. I bought an 8 foot Half Hitch rod and it was rated for 15 to 25 lb line and maxed out at 2 oz for lure weight and it was fine.

The biggest king I saw caught was 31 lbs and the lady was using a 2 piece 8 foot Ugly Stick which Walmart had for $50.

I used 15lb BigGame or 15lb Ande Line and never had a King break my line. I also used 17lb Suffix on my 7500SS but I would feel fine with 15lb.

Get you some 30lb wire leader and #2 to #1 treble hooks and some strong black swivels and go at it.

I caught 15 kings while I was there and the largest was only 15 lbs. The way you lose them is flipper, they tail cut your line, another king bites the mono, or the king gets into the concrete pier pilings. I lost some on all those ways.

A good starter rig would be an 8 foot Ugly stik Med ($50) and a Penn 6500ss used for about $65. There are many other choices as well.  Make sure the drag is greased and clean and you can just about catch any king you hook.

Good luck.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 4, 2010)

I would suggest that if you are going to use braid you buy you some casting gloves, that line will up and hurt your finger if you aren't careful.  The cobia combos are good, I have gone the other way down there though, I have an old 14 ft hollow fiberglass surf rod that can sling light weights a country mile.  It is very "flexible" to say the least and will load with literally nothing on it.


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## PaulD (Feb 5, 2010)

redneck_billcollector said:


> I would suggest that if you are going to use braid you buy you some casting gloves, that line will up and hurt your finger if you aren't careful.



  


Sorry, this one is just to easy.


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## Dustin Pate (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd look into the braid issue. Most folks on piers don't appreciate it.


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## PaulD (Feb 5, 2010)

This is true due to tangles but if you know what ya doing......I will recaint though, might want to stick to mono.


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## bouymarker (Feb 5, 2010)

ericflowers said:


> all the help is appreciated, thank you all!


try this site, they are *all* about casting distance..like 4/5hundred yrds.
http://www.pierandsurf.com/fishing-forum/index.php



these guys are bongers over distance!!!

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8879638&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8879638&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p>Casting Practice on 1/17/2010 from Carlos Osuna on Vimeo.</p>


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 5, 2010)

Casting for distance in the surf is one issue. 

Casting for distance from a pier and being able to retrieve your catch is an altogether different subject.


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## PaulD (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeh. That's true. You get on that pier with braid and cross up lines and your gonna be on a high platform with a group of angry fisherman calling you every thing but "freind" I saw a guy a couple of years ago that had a awesome set up. He had a long surf rod with a heavy surf weight on it. No bait. He then took 2 rods which he was fishing with rigged up and he was using a shower cutian ring and a #2 rubber band and was running his live baits down his long line like you would an outrigger. It was smart and interesting but not a novice tactic for sure.


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## bouymarker (Feb 5, 2010)

good video


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 5, 2010)

bouymarker said:


> no, i dont quite get what you saying? chunking 8oz of led several hundred yards at a target is different than



My point is that using a 15' pole on a pier is not going to be lot of fun. 

Casting for distance from a pier requires a different set of tools.


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## wharfrat (Feb 5, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Yeh. That's true. You get on that pier with braid and cross up lines and your gonna be on a high platform with a group of angry fisherman calling you every thing but "freind" I saw a guy a couple of years ago that had a awesome set up. He had a long surf rod with a heavy surf weight on it. No bait. He then took 2 rods which he was fishing with rigged up and he was using a shower cutian ring and a #2 rubber band and was running his live baits down his long line like you would an outrigger. It was smart and interesting but not a novice tactic for sure.


seen it done similar from the piers and pop the clip once the bait swims out there, but on the bait they tie a small balloon to keep the bait near the surface, and then they reel the launcher in.


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## Bubbaforsure (Feb 5, 2010)

Simplicty and good design is the best thing to look for in a king setup....There is really only one reel for this and that would be a Penn 706 with manual pickup, as for line, no more than 15-17 lbs. This will give 300-350 yds on a 706 if it is installed correctly. Remember...They can only go so deep in close..so the have to run away from the beach, so line yardage can and will play a major role in landing a really big king. Leaders , hooks and siwivels can be debated for days. In my opinion...fish as light and small as you can. On bright clear water sunny days this can mean the difference in hooking up or standing there all day and soaking baits. As for a pole.....8'-9' max, medium heavy to medium light, split grips, with or without reel seat. Sometimes we even tape the reel to the pole to cut down on weight. My favorite pole is a Lami-Glass model #114. It comes 12' full lenght. We cut the tip back 6"-8" to desired tip size, then 9' from there and rest comes off the bottom. This pole was designed for throwing live sardines on the west coast. It will toss a cig 30-40 yds further than any store bought pole. 
Cost...You can do a basic custom setup for $250.00 rod reel and line..I have two rigs like this..Put them together in 1979 and they are still going strong...much..much...cheaper in the long run...I will try and find the picture of  the 43lb King we caught off the peir with 15lbs test back in the mid eighties....First run.........he took over 150 + yards of line off the reel before you could say the word "STOP"


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 5, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Sorry, this one is just to easy.



Dang....getting whipped.  I see folks casting with that stuff all the time and messing their fingers up...I use braid pretty much for everything in salt water, but then again right now my prefered method of fishing is high speed jigging.


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## ericflowers (Feb 16, 2010)

thanks ya'll


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## Cougar Spray (Feb 17, 2010)

here is a long winded explanation of the method mentioned about using an anchor rod that I wrote up last year:

the way it's typically done in the Carolina's is:

A 12 ft surf style spin rod with 20lb test....use a spider weight(weight with bendable arms coming off of it) for the purpose of getting hung in the sand, tied directly to the main line.

For the fighting rod, a small TLD or something similiar that can hold, as mentioned above, 350-400 yrds of 20-30 lbs test. From the mainline, tie a 3-way swivel. Off of one of the other connection points on the swivel tie either a short section of 40-50 lb mono to a 12-15 in. of wire or you can just use wire straight off of the swivel to a single treble or you can use a a "basket" style rig with two trebles. 

To fish, throw the spinning rod with spider weight as far as you can and reel slowly so the weight will hang in the bottom. This is your anchor line. Once that's done, make sure line is tight and rest the rod against railing so that you can reach the line coming out of the rod tip.

There are multiple ways to rig this part...I'll tell you one way....take a large snap swivel. Thread a 18 in pc of wire thru the non-snap end of the swivel (sorry, I don't know the proper terms), bend the ends of the wire together and slide a 1/2 oz egg sinker over the wire and up against the swivel. Twist the wire 4-5 times to set the sinker in place. Then snip the wire leaving two tag ends 2-3 inches long below the sinker. 

Back to fishing......Take the snap end of the swivel on the "thingy" described above and attach it to the anchor line that is hung on the bottom. Then take the two tag ends of wire and push them together thru the remaining open rung of the 3 way swivel. once thru the swivel, spread the wires apart so that they hold the 3 way swivel to the anchor line. (Do not twist wires togther, just spread.....it needs to be able to release when pulled on).

Get a live bait, attach to treble(s). In your left hand, free spool the fighting rod, allowing the snap swivel to slide down the anchor line while with your right hand, pick up the anchor rod, and place in pier rod holder. Raising up the 12 ft rod facilitates the weight to slide more quickly down the anchor line. Once the baitfish is suspended right on or below the surface, set the drag on your fighting rod to a light strike setting and your ready to go........Alot of folks will attach a quick release rod holder to the top of the pier railing for the fighting rod to allow line to come off the reel smoothly during a strike.

When a fish hits the bait, the wires holding the swivel to the anchor line will straighten and the fighting rod will be free of the anchor line.......


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## BrownBomber (Feb 17, 2010)

No trolley rigs on the panhandle piers. You would make many enemies.


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