# Smoothbore Fowler



## delta708 (Jun 9, 2015)

Any thoughts on a smooth bore fowler? Suggestions? Brand? Ideas? Anything?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## SASS249 (Jun 9, 2015)

My first choice would be:

  Track of the Wolf's fusil-de-chasse  see link below

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ.../1/FRENCH-TULLE-FUSIL-DE-CHASSE-42-PARTS-LIST

these are really nice looking and VERY versatile guns.   

Not really a fowler, the northwest trade gun has some appeal also.  http://www.northstarwest.com/products/the-northwest-trade-gun
They do not have the visual appeal to me that the Tulle does, but they are pretty popular.

My own fowler is somewhat of a Frankenstein build.  I wanted to take parts available to a frontier builder and recycle them into a "new" gun.  Starting with a French Charleville musket barrel and buttplate, mating it with a rifle lock and a fowler stock I ended up with exactly what I was looking for.  It is a very plain type of gun that I would have expected to find in a frontier cabin.


----------



## Supercracker (Jun 9, 2015)

delta708 said:


> Any thoughts on a smooth bore fowler? Suggestions? Brand? Ideas? Anything?  Thanks in advance.



What are you looking to use it for?  Mostly round balls for deer and pigs, Ducks, Turkeys, one gun for everything?


Are you planning to build one or buy one?

If you want to buy one I would start looking in the classifieds of the various traditional muzzleloading forums. While a factory made gun can be had cheaper, they really won't compare to the handling and feel of a custom gun. Which can be found used where I mentioned on a fairly regular basis. 

If you want o build one I would suggest a Chambers kit. He has a couple of different smoothbore gun kits available. His quality is top notch for not really that much more money. 

Also, if you can handle a few different designs before you buy and find what fits you.  For instance the French guns are the best looking but to me were impossible to shoulder correctly, my friend LOVES the one I just finished up for him and says he thinks it shoulders and swings perfect. I like the New England guns, kind of halfway between French and English with a little bit of Dutch thrown in. Everyone is different. 

The hands down best case scenario would be to go to Dixons Gunmakers Fair in a few weeks in PA. Spend the day talking to the best gunmakers there are and handle, shoulder and lay eyes on virtually everything that's out there from plain jane utilitarian guns, to $25,000 custom Jaeger rifles, to priceless originals that saw action in the revolution.  It's a fun day and time well spent.


----------



## White Horse (Jun 9, 2015)

I have had a flintlock Northstar West Northwest trade gun in 20 gauge for years and have enjoyed it a lot. It packs a punch with a solid ball (60 caliber) or it can handle small shot or buck shot. It's surprisingly accurate once you get over not having a rear sight.

The Northwest trade gun, though plain looking, has a very distinctive look, and fits a wide range of periods and places. They were in use all over North America from the 1780's or so until repeaters came in in the late 1800's, and they stayed in use in some places like the wilds of northern Canada right up into the 20th century. In fact, there are probably still a few originals on pegs over fireplaces up in Canada.


----------



## delta708 (Jun 21, 2015)

Thanks guys. This gives me a lot of choices and places to start. I want to be able to use the gun for big game and birds. I want to use it for all around hunting and 18th and 19th century survival. Thanks again and if this gives you any more info I would greatly appreciate to hear more from you.


----------



## White Horse (Jun 21, 2015)

Here is a picture of Hugh Monroe, who was an old time mountain man married into the Blackfoot tribe. He is shown here in 1896 with some of his Blackfoot family, with his Northwest gun across his lap. Monroe hunted game, including hundreds of buffalo,with that flintlock smoothbore trade gun all his life.

James Willard Shultz made this picture, and wrote a couple of books featuring Monroe.

The knife Monroe is holding in the photo appears to be a Scottish dirk.


----------



## delta708 (Jun 30, 2015)

Cool!


----------



## delta708 (Jun 30, 2015)

Now what is the big difference in a smoothbore and a fowler? Sights and stock? Or something else? Can you guys post some pictures of your guns. I'm really very interested in this and been researching. Flower seems to be the prettier gun but looks odd to shoot and the northwest trade isn't as fancy but seems to be a work horse. Sorry for bothering y'all so much but this is a slight investment and I want what's gonna be the right gun for me. Thanks again. Let's see some pictures. Also, super cracker, the Dixon gun fair in PA, when is it?


----------



## Supercracker (Jun 30, 2015)

the Gunmakers fair is July 24, 25 & 26. I'll be there all day Friday so I can get first crack at the gunstock blanks on offer. Then socialize some. 

http://www.dixonmuzzleloading.com/33rd-annual-gunmakers-fair-dixons-will-july-24-25-26-2015/

Check out their site. There's classes and seminars all weekend. 

Here's my smoothy. I built it as a NE fowling gun that had been cut down for easier use on horseback and in the FL swamps. It's a 34" 12Ga barrel, full round built to my dimensions by Colerain. I didn't get fancy with it because it's intended to be banged around the swamp. Like an 18th Century version of the gun you throw behind the truck seat.














I assume you've seen the other thread where I'm building the fowler. it will be a very slender and swoopy New England fowler with lots of french influence. 

This is a rifle I recently finished but it was built with the profile of the French Tulle guns, so it looks like a French Fowler. The stain is Aqua Fortis and the finish rubbed in tru oil tinted red with alkanet root and the figure darkened with French Black rubbed in. I thought it shouldered terribly for a rifle, he loved it. Everyone is different. It's really best to get to shoulder a bunch of different ones.


----------



## Supercracker (Jun 30, 2015)

delta708 said:


> Now what is the big difference in a smoothbore and a fowler? Sights and stock? Or something else?



well. there's Fowling guns (smoothbore and intended to shoot shot at small critters but can also reasonably shoot a roundball) and smoothrifles (guns that are outwardly rifles and intended to make aimed shots but are smooth bored).

It's an architecture thing.  I also think that, more than likely, a lot of the "smoothrifles" were actually built as rifles and then when they got shot out the woenr didn't have money to have the rifling freshened so it just got bored smooth. But that's just my suspicion. 

The real $64,000 question is when did they stop being "Fowling guns" and start being shotguns.


----------



## SASS249 (Jun 30, 2015)

What Supercracker said.  A whole lot depends on what fits you and what you want the gun to represent.  A lot of us that are into these guns have a particular period and locale in mind.  I love what Supercracker has done with his smoothbore, partly because that is pretty much exactly what I did with mine.  I used pretty much exactly the same stock profile but used a barrel and furniture from a Charlevlle musket, mated with a small english lock.  The intent was to represent a gun that was built by a frontier maker, sometime after the Rev War using parts he had available.  I suspect there were more guns like this than a lot of people realize.  

A northwest trade gun is a pretty good overall choice, except I have never seen one documented in the southeast.  There likely were some, but I have not seen any examples.  That kind of concern may not matter to you though.

It is worth a trip to Dixon's to see the wide variety and to try them for yourself.  A gun that is exactly right for me might be horrible for you.

Are you interested in the historical aspects at all or are you mainly just interested in a shooter?


----------



## delta708 (Jun 30, 2015)

Those are some nice guns. I'm interested in the historical and shooting aspect but probably leaning more towards the shooting part. I figure if the gun is comfortable I'm gonna use it a lot. Uncomfortability equals a hanger on the fireplace. I would like to make it a useable, fun and diversable gun. But when you see those pretty guns your mouth starts to water. You guys definitely know your stuff and I appreciate everything you all have told me. Any more comments and pictures are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jul 1, 2015)

Supercracker said:


> The real $64,000 question is when did they stop being "Fowling guns" and start being shotguns.




Just in my reading over the years I start to see the transition from "Fowling guns" to "Shot-Gun" and "shotgun" in the late 1700s.   Seems they slowly started to favor "Shot-gun"  and it picked up more in the early 1800's became more common place. However I have seen the term Fowling piece/Fowler as late as the American Civil War. I did notice more references to Shot-Gun and double gun around the 1830's at least here in GA during the Native conflicts.  


I am no expert though, just a history nerd.


----------



## Supercracker (Jul 1, 2015)

Yeah, I think the earliest the term has been seen is right around the turn of the century.  

I was thinking of the physical differences. To me they stopped being "fowling guns" when they became shorter, half stocked guns made to swing well for wing shooting rather than shooting at stationary birds. So early 19th C.   but that's really a distinction I've made in my head for myself.


----------



## Supercracker (Jul 1, 2015)

With regard to Dixons. I failed to mention that Knob Mountain and Chambers will be set up there with kits and, probably, guns in the white for sale.  So you could probably go there and come back with a kit and everything you need to finish it up in hand.


----------



## delta708 (Jul 2, 2015)

Thanks guys. Y'all have been very helpful. I would like to go to Dixons. I appreciate all the input and the pictures. I want to make my mind up because I would like to get one. I think doing a kit would be awesome. I've done my own muzzleloader kits in the past. I have a couple rifles and a pistol under my belt. They weren't too hard and I had a lot of fun. Building one of these would it be comparable to what I've built in the past as far as simplicity or is it a whole other ball game. Any more comments, suggestions and pictures are welcome. Thanks again for everyone's input.


----------



## Supercracker (Jul 2, 2015)

It depends on whose kit you buy. TOW will have kits that have everything "inletted" already and it's just a matter of prepping the metal parts and coaxing their "pre inletts" into fitting.  A little trimming a little scraping and then sand and finish. Probably not too bad. 

Chambers kits will eb shaped but not have anything inletted. You'll have to inlet the lock and other hardware yourself, scrape sand and shape the stock and shape the forend. It's not as bad as it sounds.  A chambers or Knob Mtn "kit" will look like this plus a bag of parts. 





I think it's a better option as, IME, the pre inlets on the pre inletted stocks are NEVER right where they need to be. The lock will always be a little too far back to line up with the barrel vent properly. But it can still be dealt with.


----------



## Supercracker (Jul 2, 2015)

When are you getting up to Dixons?  If you can get up there Friday I'd be happy to peruse the show with you for a bit and answer any questions.


----------



## delta708 (Jul 3, 2015)

Sounds good. I'm not sure what day I'll be up. I hope I can go. I think that would be really cool to go to. If I end up going and gonna be there on Friday I'll let you know. How long does it take to get there, around 10-11 hours?


----------

