# Which Sermon do you Prefer?



## Ronnie T (Jan 19, 2011)

Which sermon will do you the "most good"????

1.  A 'pat me on the back' type sermon that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

2.  A 'grab you by the throat' type sermon that causes you to confront real life against Godliness.


Why?


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## formula1 (Jan 19, 2011)

*Re:*

Every message should have elements of both, IMHO.

Number 1 - If the feel good part of the message is about the work of Christ in you and not about you.  If your hope is in Christ, from His perspective, everyone should 'feel good' that Christ will continually work in you, provided you remain faithful to Him. If you truly understand the work of Christ in you, your Love for Him will take charge and help you overcome the issues of life.

Number 2 - If a sermon causes you to reflect on issues you need to allow Christ to deal with in your life, you are more willing to open yourself up to the Holy Spirit to transform you, to 'renew your mind' if you will. You become more willing to practice a repentant heart day in and day out.

Some key things I thought about when answering your question:

Ephesians 4:15
Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ

1 Peter 1:22
Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart

1 John 3:18
Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.


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## stringmusic (Jan 19, 2011)

stir those two choices in a pot, that would be what I prefer.

As far a which is the "most good", I think its a sermon that teaches.


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## Crubear (Jan 19, 2011)

All of the above and more? I've been fortunate to find copies of books that have the sermons of Peter Marshal (Chaplain of the Senate through the 40's and early 50's). The best ones (IMHO) are the ones that tell a short story, show how the Bible applies and why, and then challenge me to go and do the same.


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## OntheFlyTyer (Jan 19, 2011)

Comfort the Afflicted & Afflict the Comfortable


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## stringmusic (Jan 19, 2011)

Crubear said:


> All of the above and more? I've been fortunate to find copies of books that have the sermons of Peter Marshal (Chaplain of the Senate through the 40's and early 50's). The best ones (IMHO) are* the ones that tell a short story, show how the Bible applies and why, and then challenge me to go and do the same*.




This is how my pastor does it every Sunday, I really enjoy it.


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## thedeacon (Jan 19, 2011)

I do not have any preferance when it comes to sermons. I want it to be biblical and come from the heart. Any sermon should be well thought out, studied and presented with love after heart felt prayer.

I don't need to be patted on the back and I certeinly don't need to be chocked. I have never, ever heard a sermon (no matter how bad it was) that I didn't get something out of it. It's all about attitude when you are listening.

I do love a good story though, being a storyteller myself.

Christian's shouldn't be in the sermon critisizeing business.
I even like RonnieT's sermons, he'a purty good.

God Bless


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## Ronnie T (Jan 19, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> I do not have any preferance when it comes to sermons. I want it to be biblical and come from the heart. Any sermon should be well thought out, studied and presented with love after heart felt prayer.
> 
> I don't need to be patted on the back and I certeinly don't need to be chocked. I have never, ever heard a sermon (no matter how bad it was) that I didn't get something out of it. It's all about attitude when you are listening.
> 
> ...





You said:  "and I certeinly don't need to be chocked"

I'm obviously not directing this to you, the deacon, but I have, on occasion, had several people thank me for a motivational lesson, then suddenly have someone say something like "I get tired of coming to church just to get beat up!".  Obviously, they feel 'choked' when other Christians are feeling "motivated".

I think there are Christians who love to get their toes stepped on so they can be motivated and better appreciate God's grace and mercy.  But I'm afraid there are some who put a wall up and turn all exhortation away.

Is it possible that I'm right.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 19, 2011)

Food for thought, for pastors. Your expected to do certain things, as you know, and delivering a message that the church approves of has more to do with the likes of your particular church. But the fact is that they don't know what they need. You are seen as the spiritual leader and frankly you could lead them just about anywhere you want based on how gullable spiritual people are. I don't want that to be offensive, I just mean that many people have trusted their pastors no matter what. Jim Baker for example. On another level, most don't study the bible for themselves so whatever you say, they assume you are teaching correctly. So what is my point? Should it be message 1 or message 2. Do them a favor and let it be neither.  Message 1 is just flattery to those who already think they have arrived and only causes them to look down on those not as perfected as they are. Now for my main point, Message 2,  Ask anyone in the church, regardless of how well you preached, how many got saved or how many toes you stepped on, What was the message about 2 weeks ago or 3 weeks ago and they will not be able to tell you despite all the amens you might have got.  What pastors see as a good message is usually in one ear out out the other with no potential for any change.  Pastors try very hard to bring about change but seldom see the results that they expect considering all their efforts. So why is this? Do them a favor and make them realize that you are not the teacher. Teach them that real change only comes from learning to submit to the the only teacher able to actually make a difference, the Holy Spirit.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 19, 2011)

Preach verse by verse right through whatever book of the Bible your in at that time, Expositing and explaining the scriptures as you go.
That way as you go book by book the people get the whole council of God explained and exhorted to them.



<< Nehemiah 8 >>
New American Standard Bible	 (Emphasis added Mine)
Ezra Reads the Law

      1 And all the people gathered as one man at the square which was in front of the Water Gate, and they asked Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the LORD had given to Israel. 2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4 Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand; and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullam on his left hand. 5 Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up. 6 Then Ezra blessed the LORD the great God. And all the people answered, “Amen, Amen!” while lifting up their hands; then they bowed low and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground. 7 Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodiah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, the Levites, explained the law to the people while the people remained in their place. 8 They read from the book, from the law of God, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading.


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## Old Winchesters (Jan 19, 2011)

I thought the messages come from the lord and were revealed through the preacher?  I've always thought the message should go to where the spirit leads the preacher, so I'm not sure how or why anyone would have an issue with what was being preached unless they felt the messages were coming from man and not the Lord.   Anybody would get tired of hearing brimstone messages every week and also hearing a yall are so great message every week is just as bad. Another way to look at it is  a good father does not jump on his children every time he speaks to them but has to and needs to sometimes. A message does not have to be pat on the back or brimstone to be beneficial, sometimes the best messages are neither one.  Sorry if this sounds rude it's not meant to be.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 19, 2011)

1lineman said:


> I thought the messages come from the lord and were revealed through the preacher?  I've always thought the message should go to where the spirit leads the preacher, so I'm not sure how or why anyone would have an issue with what was being preached unless they felt the messages were coming from man and not the Lord.   Anybody would get tired of hearing brimstone messages every week and also hearing a yall are so great message every week is just as bad. Another way to look at it is  a good father does not jump on his children every time he speaks to them but has to and needs to sometimes. A message does not have to be pat on the back or brimstone to be beneficial, sometimes the best messages are neither one.  Sorry if this sounds rude it's not meant to be.



I don't thinks it's rude at all.  Matter of fact, I agree with you.
But most don't.  There's a sizable segment of the church that uses Sunday lunch as a time to critique the mornings sermon.

I began this thread because I've been studying Stephen's 'sermon'(if you'd call it a sermon) in Acts 7.  Of all the things Stephen could have said, God led him to speak powerfully and forcefully.  
I was thinking that I'm glad no one has ever threatened to take me out the back door and stone me.


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## christianhunter (Jan 20, 2011)

For me its about following the motions.Contrary to popular belief,the sermon does not always fall on the Preacher.An explanation of that would be.
1.The preacher is a man,capable of all things, as any other man.He still goes to the pulpit every Sunday to deliver The Message.Some Sunday's he is seemingly on fire for THE LORD.Then there are Sundays when he just passes through Scripture in a monotone type voice,and he is done.
2.Then there are the members of The Church.Some Sundays,everyones eyes are glued to the Pastor,you could hear a pin drop,Everyone is focused.Then there are the fidgity Sundays,people looking at their watch,looking around the Church,not really paying attention at all.

This all comes down to,IMO,the spirit of a man.Did we as a Church come to worship,or are we following the motions?
THE HOLY SPIRIT pricks the heart,and fills the heart.HE uses the Pastor,as HIS messenger.I have been lifted by both types of sermons in the OP.The Pastor is a man of GOD,HIS messenger.The very people who gather to critique,are the ones who need the message the most,and are not listening.I have my toes stepped on quite often,but I do have that warm feeling at the end."For GOD so loved the world,that HE gave HIS only begotten SON,that who so ever believes in HIM should not perish,but have everlasting life".


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## Ronnie T (Jan 20, 2011)

You're right Ch.
Every Preachers spends lots of time prayerfully preparing outlines and thinking and considering all the things that could be said concerning the subject scripture.
But it's absolutely shocking how a sermon can go in a totally different direction than the outline.
In my conversations with preachers I know that they have great concern with how their words will be taken.  And they welcome God taking over.

To all of you:  Do you believe Stephen talked himself into being stoned to death?
Or do you believe God gave Stephen every word to spoke??


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## formula1 (Jan 20, 2011)

*Re:*

Your thoughts challenged me to go back and read the message of Stephen again.

I would say this of Stephen, that the Holy Spirit was fully upon him, and that the message he spoke was directly from the heart of God. I'm sure he did not want to be stoned, yet being stoned was of no consequence to him, for the obedience to God's truth and message mattered most to him.  Here is a willing servant counting all as lost for the sake of Christ. And what seed did he plant?  You know:

Acts 7:58
Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 

And I'm sure Stephen had no idea, but he gladly paid the price!

I wonder if we would do the same?


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## gtparts (Jan 20, 2011)

Boy, you sure touched on a very broad subject!

I always go with the expectation that God has something that is specifically for me. But, it is also my belief that everyone within hearing also has need of instruction or correction. Often what is intended from the preacher's perspective is taken differently by each hearer. I have heard uplifting sermons that brought someone else to their knees in tears and contrition. So it is with the Word preached. The Holy Spirit can use the worst prepared and delivered sermon, that would not even rate a D- for a freshman seminary student, to God's glory. 

If we are talking about preference, I'll take what God has for me. I just pray my spiritual antennae are up and on so I don't miss something.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 20, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Your thoughts challenged me to go back and read the message of Stephen again.
> 
> I would say this of Stephen, that the Holy Spirit was fully upon him, and that the message he spoke was directly from the heart of God. I'm sure he did not want to be stoned, yet being stoned was of no consequence to him, for the obedience to God's truth and message mattered most to him.  Here is a willing servant counting all as lost for the sake of Christ. And what seed did he plant?  You know:
> 
> ...




I wonder also.
Would we be Stephen...... or would we be Saul and innocently stand back as the others throw the stones?


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## gordon 2 (Jan 20, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I wonder also.
> Would we be Stephen...... or would we be Saul and innocently stand back as the others throw the stones?





The tendency to prize and enjoy realestate is very strong in our societies. Very few are like Stephen. Many are like Saul. Matter of fact the Sauls call the Stephens foulish today.  Today's Sauls, although they are good people, don't make for exceptional Saints. As a matter of fact some will say "It's crazy to try and be one."

It must be difficult to be a pastor... with the halls full of Sauls and Saints. To one the sermon is over the heads and to the other the sermons ever falls short.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 20, 2011)

Most miss Stevens point that he was trying to establish


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## Ronnie T (Jan 20, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Most miss Stevens point that he was trying to establish



God has always planned ahead for the coming of Messiah.
Israel has always looked to the past.
In Stephen's sermon, God had been with Abraham; with Joseph; Joseph's family in Egypt; God had been with Joshua; with all the prophets............. And they all have prepared you for the Messiah.
But your uncircumcised hearts have not accepted, just as your father's refused to hear of the coming of the Righteous One.


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## formula1 (Jan 20, 2011)

*Re:*

The theme of Steven's message carried throughout pretty much everything he said is this:

51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

No matter what law you follow, without open hearts and ears to the Holy Spirit, you are dead! Dead even though you breath God's air! Dead even though you are rich! Dead even though your are respected by men. Dead even though you are eloquent. Dead even though you are an eloquent speaker. Dead even though you think you are Gods chosen! And so on!

I'll say it again! It does not matter who you may be, without open hearts and ears to the Holy Spirit, you are dead!  May we all fall on our knees and cry out to our heavenly Father and repent and seek Him. Ask Him through His lovingkindness to open our ears and hearts to Him! Then He will pour His Spirit into what we do for Him.

RonnieT, I see we are on the same page!


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## thedeacon (Jan 20, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> You said:  "and I certeinly don't need to be chocked"
> 
> I'm obviously not directing this to you, the deacon, but I have, on occasion, had several people thank me for a motivational lesson, then suddenly have someone say something like "I get tired of coming to church just to get beat up!".  Obviously, they feel 'choked' when other Christians are feeling "motivated".
> 
> ...



Of course you are right. We need to be brought out of the pews every once in awhile.

There is a need for all types of preaching.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 20, 2011)

Ronnie, I hope you mind the derailment. Steven was setting the stage. He went back in Jewish history and began to discourse on what they already knew. During his speach many were probably starting to wonder what they had against him. Everything he was saying was the very things that they held tight to. From beginning to present, He spoke the truth as they knew it. But then when he said about God, "what kind of house will you build for me" , they should have known that David was promised that God would build him a house. God does not live in houses made by men. Jesus demonstrated this when he said "tear down this temple and raise it up not made by human hands. Steven understood the Kingdom of God. Has not God made all things. Does the axe raise itself above the one who swings it?  Spiritually speaking, they being puffed up, proud of what spiritual tower they had built, were not willing to tear it down. They were white washed tombs. They had mastered religion, how to clean the outside of the cup yet the inside was not changed. When one is proud of what he has built, he sees no need to tear it down or crucify it. He will never become a new creation, only the same thing. Verse 51, where he tells them that they are stiffnecked, uncircumcised hearts and ears, just like your fathers, resisting the Holy Spirit. Persecuters of prophets and then he mentions killing the righteous one. So, what is Stevens message here? that they killed Jesus or was his main point that God does not live in houses made by man. The kingdom of man is in direct opposition to the kingdom of God.  When we are truely born again, we are a new creation of God, from the master creator, giving up completly our work of building our own temple or babel tower, tearing it down, crucifying it, burying it in baptismal, raised a new creation where we are simply the clay and he is the potter, him getting all the Glory. Preachers: when you teach how to "become better people" reguritating James Dobson or trying to be Joel Olsteen, you blaspheme the Holy Spirit cause you, a mere man, claim to be the "teacher"


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2011)

I think we're all showing that Stephens words were masterful.
For too much of the time I've mostly centered on the accusations made against him and then his stoning.  And Saul's presence.
It's easy to pass right over Stephen's words.

But his message is God-breathed.
He was on-point.  Didn't play games.
He almost didn't leave them any option other than kill him.
I mean 'God' didn't.

Today, preachers are very careful to make sure they themselves don't fall prey to the stoning mob.

Thank you all and I for one hope this discussion can continue.
There's obviously much to be shared.


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## Mako22 (Jan 21, 2011)

You pastor to all types of Christians, mature ones and baby ones but the pastor must feed all of them at the same time. So balance and discernment are required to insure that the grown Christians get their meat and the baby Christians get their milk. If you preach right you will at times offend but remember they were offended by Christ preaching also so preach on brother, preach on.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> You pastor to all types of Christians, mature ones and baby ones but the pastor must feed all of them at the same time. So balance and discernment are required to insure that the grown Christians get their meat and the baby Christians get their milk. If you preach right you will at times offend but remember they were offended by Christ preaching also so preach on brother, preach on.



You've hit the head on the nail(something like that).

Here's something else.
That Sunday morning sermon is a part of a Worship Service to God Himself.  The preparation, speaking and the hearing are acts of worship.

Why shouldn't God's word and will be spoken at a worship service?  And accepted as worship to God.
But not accepting the words heard, and not allowing those words spoken to strengthen and challenge your life is NOT worshipping God.

There should be strength and empowerment in each sermon.  I think that's how they should be received.

And at the same time, the sermon should be tested.
Is it scriptural?  Is it truly God's message?


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## Mako22 (Jan 21, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> You've hit the head on the nail(something like that).
> 
> Here's something else.
> That Sunday morning sermon is a part of a Worship Service to God Himself.  The preparation, speaking and the hearing are acts of worship.
> ...



James called it being a doer of the word and not just a hearer only. Anyone can hear the word of God, but those who walk by faith in his word will be a doer also.


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## Israel (Feb 1, 2011)

I like what's born in fire. 
And delivered by a man with the marks of the Lord's ownership upon him. 
I love those scars...and the words tried in the fire of their reception.


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## SneekEE (Feb 25, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> Which sermon will do you the "most good"????
> 
> 1.  A 'pat me on the back' type sermon that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.
> 
> ...




The number 2 type makes me feel warm and fuzzy.


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## HCREB (Mar 13, 2011)

*2*

I like the number 2 sermon.  Anybody can get behind a pulpit and talk but it takes a real man of god to preach against sin and when he names it , that is when people go to gettin mad!!!!!!  I'm sure Jesus and the disciples offended a bunch of people!


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## 1john4:4 (Mar 18, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Every message should have elements of both, IMHO.
> 
> Number 1 - If the feel good part of the message is about the work of Christ in you and not about you.  If your hope is in Christ, from His perspective, everyone should 'feel good' that Christ will continually work in you, provided you remain faithful to Him. If you truly understand the work of Christ in you, your Love for Him will take charge and help you overcome the issues of life.
> 
> ...





This is good... Thanks!


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