# Worldly Gifts from Satan



## HawgJawl (Jan 21, 2012)

As a Southern Baptist, I was raised to believe that Satan bribes people with worldly gifts while the righteous Christian has their rewards waiting for them in heaven.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that heathens are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth while Christians have the least of anything the world has to offer.

On the contrary, the Bible tells us that righteous Christians will be blessed here on earth.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that righteous Christians are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth.

Can anyone explain why I don't see either of these clearly visible in the world?


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## Israel (Jan 21, 2012)

No man is rich who is not content.
No matter what he calls or thinks of himself.
And there is no place of greater frustration than trying to make one's self necessary.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 21, 2012)

Israel said:


> No man is rich who is not content.
> No matter what he calls or thinks of himself.
> And there is no place of greater frustration than trying to make one's self necessary.



Then I should clearly see in the world that heathens are extremely wealthy and extremely uncontent, while righteous Christians are extremely content and extremely poor.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 21, 2012)

Satan only bribes people with the ability to play the guitar. Christians will be blessed if they give all their riches to the poor people. Remember Matthew 19: 23-24 where Jesus told the rich man to give his riches to the poor or it would be hard to enter Heaven. I think not impossible just harder. Maybe God blesses some Christians with money just to see if they will give it away and that is why you see some of each, the rich ones or the blessed ones.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 21, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Satan only bribes people with the ability to play the guitar. Christians will be blessed if they give all their riches to the poor people. Remember Matthew 19: 23-24 where Jesus told the rich man to give his riches to the poor or it would be hard to enter Heaven. I think not impossible just harder. Maybe God blesses some Christians with money just to see if they will give it away and that is why you see some of each, the rich ones or the blessed ones.



If riches come from both God and Satan, then every rich person's wealth can be attributed to either God or Satan. We should be able to make a list of every extremely wealthy person on earth and we should be able to easily place each name into one of the two opposing categories. Every extremely wealthy person is either blessed by God or blessed by Satan.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 21, 2012)

Other than the ability to play the guitar "real good", are there any other worldly things that you believe are given by Satan to bribe people away from following God?


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 21, 2012)

All people living in the United States are rich by most of the worlds standards , but we don't see the forest for the trees sometimes.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 21, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> If riches come from both God and Satan....



The one who despises you will never park a blessing on your doorstep, weather it be gold/silver, or a spiritual blessing, mercy, grace, truth. Satan is the father of lies and it sounds like you have bought a big one.

Here is one of the best descriptions of where "wealth" comes from...

1 Chronicles 29:11-13
 11 Thine, O Jehovah,  is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the  majesty: for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine;  thine is the kingdom, O Jehovah, and thou art exalted as head above all.   
 12 _Both riches  and honor come of thee_, and thou rulest over all; and in thy hand is  power and might; and in thy hand it is to make great, and to give  strength unto all.  
 13 Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name. 


If the Giver of life, who causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust would bless one with earthly treasures, it takes a redeemed heart to not go down the road of Solomon. Worse yet, to think Satan had anything to do with it. And perhaps worse still, as Israel pointed out, that we would think that such riches came by our own power.


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## bamaboy (Jan 21, 2012)

Just because you are blessed here on earth doesn't have to mean money or precious stuff. God has blessed me with a great family,a great wife, good friends,good health, and the things that I need (house,truck/car,food,etc..)I am not rich by no means when it comes to money but I am blessed here on earth.Thank God and Amen!


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## bamaboy (Jan 21, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Other than the ability to play the guitar "real good", are there any other worldly things that you believe are given by Satan to bribe people away from following God?



Yep,money,fame,women,nice things, big egos,etc....
Just remember God tells you that when you come to enter the gates of heaven you come as you are,you can't bring worldly things with you and you will not want to because God has built a place for you with everything you will need in his house.


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## bamaboy (Jan 21, 2012)

Book of John chapter 14
    Do not let your hearts be troubled.Trust in God;trust also in me. In my fathers house are many rooms;if it were not so I would have told you.I am going there to prepare a place for you.

So if HE is going to prepare a place for you, you will need nothing. HE will supply all for you.

Proverbs 11:28 Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will thrive like a green leaf.


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## deedly (Jan 21, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Satan only bribes people with the ability to play the guitar.



Where did you hear or read this? I myself think that satan will temp you with anything he thinks will work. In the book of Mattew 4:8 He temps Jesus with "all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor, if Jesus would bow down to him. I have often thought about the old story of meeting Satan at the crossroad to make a deal. Many famous musicians have died or have been killed at an early age and that could lead one to believe that Satan called in a debt. Not all were guitar players though. I think money is also a big bribe used by Satan and the verses from the book of Mark seem to back this up.   25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 	And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 	And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.


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## ambush80 (Jan 21, 2012)

From Reader's Digest:

A banker approaches the Pearly Gates dragging a heavy suitcase.  The angel at the gates asks him what he's got in the case.  He answers"gold bricks".  The angel turns to God and says "Look at this schlep.  He brought pavement."


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 21, 2012)

Meeting the devil at the crossroads is just a myth. Supposedly you can trade your soul to the devil to play the guitar. I was just making a joke about it because i thought everyone had heard of it. They even made a movie about it in 1986 starring Ralph Macchio. I don't think any gifts, talents, or blessings come from the devil.


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## centerpin fan (Jan 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> They even made a movie about it in 1986 starring Ralph Macchio.



The head-cutting scene with Steve Vai is awesome.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 22, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> As a Southern Baptist, I was raised to believe that Satan bribes people with worldly gifts while the righteous Christian has their rewards waiting for them in heaven.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that heathens are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth while Christians have the least of anything the world has to offer.
> 
> On the contrary, the Bible tells us that righteous Christians will be blessed here on earth.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that righteous Christians are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth.
> 
> Can anyone explain why I don't see either of these clearly visible in the world?



Duet. 29:4.  "Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear."


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## Israel (Jan 22, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Then I should clearly see in the world that heathens are extremely wealthy and extremely uncontent, while righteous Christians are extremely content and extremely poor.



What you and I need clearly to see is not of the world.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 22, 2012)

deedly said:


> Where did you hear or read this? I myself think that satan will temp you with anything he thinks will work. In the book of Mattew 4:8 He temps Jesus with "all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor, if Jesus would bow down to him. I have often thought about the old story of meeting Satan at the crossroad to make a deal. Many famous musicians have died or have been killed at an early age and that could lead one to believe that Satan called in a debt. Not all were guitar players though. I think money is also a big bribe used by Satan and the verses from the book of Mark seem to back this up.   25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
> 26 	And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
> 27 	And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.



So far, it seems that you and I are the only ones who have every heard that Satan tempts people away from God with worldly bribes.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

Israel said:


> What you and I need clearly to see is not of the world.



Amen!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> So far, it seems that you and I are the only ones who have every heard that Satan tempts people away from God with worldly bribes.



My late brother was an awesome guitar play (speaking of guitars) and he started around 5 years old. He had perfect pitch and most of it came naturally to him while he listened to me practice piano, over and over and over again.
That was a gift from God, unfortunately he did not play for the glory of God.....I won't say consciously he made a choice to live for the devil, but in all reality if he wasn't living for God, he was living for satan.

In the end at 42, he had been saved, but he was still damaged and od'd on script drugs and alcohol. I'm sure he's strummin' some tunes with my daddy while my mama sings and plays accordian on the shores of heaven. I will join them one day 

We are either for Christ or part of the antichrist.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

bamaboy said:


> Yep,money,fame,women,nice things, big egos,etc....
> Just remember God tells you that when you come to enter the gates of heaven you come as you are,you can't bring worldly things with you and you will not want to because God has built a place for you with everything you will need in his house.



Right on!


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## gtparts (Jan 23, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Then I should clearly see in the world that heathens are extremely wealthy and extremely uncontent, while righteous Christians are extremely content and extremely poor.



Circumstance (rich or poor) has little to do with the matter. God causes the rain to fall on the materially rich and the materially poor. A prosperity "gospel", focused on earthly wealth, is a lie. 

Among the wealthy, you will find both, the content and the uncontent. This holds true for those of lesser wealth. "Needs" and "wants" are two very different things. The tendency to emphasize the "wants" in our lives only occurs when our "needs" are sufficiently met. God's economy says we are to place the "needs" of others above our "wants". He promises us, that in so doing, He will see that our "needs" are met. Sometimes, He even graces us with some of our "wants". Clearly, that contradicts what the world would have us believe.

Bottom line, it is just foolish to draw a correlation between someones checkbook balance and their faith..... or lack thereof.


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## gtparts (Jan 23, 2012)

To the matter of Satan bribing people, Satan cannot and will not give us good things. They are not his to give. He can only produce counterfeits. 

What he can do is turn the hearts of men toward things so that we place their significance above God. They are called idols. Satan deceives us to destroy us. Those who fall for his lies are willing accomplices in their own demise.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

gtparts said:


> Circumstance (rich or poor) has little to do with the matter. God causes the rain to fall on the materially rich and the materially poor. A prosperity "gospel", focused on earthly wealth, is a lie.
> 
> Among the wealthy, you will find both, the content and the uncontent. This holds true for those of lesser wealth. "Needs" and "wants" are two very different things. The tendency to emphasize the "wants" in our lives only occurs when our "needs" are sufficiently met. God's economy says we are to place the "needs" of others above our "wants". He promises us, that in so doing, He will see that our "needs" are met. Sometimes, He even graces us with some of our "wants". Clearly, that contradicts what the world would have us believe.
> 
> Bottom line, it is just foolish to draw a correlation between someones checkbook balance and their faith..... or lack thereof.



God will also provide for us to provide for others. It's not like God needs our money, but other people do....and He sends us to help them, and if we help them He will help us to help them.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

gtparts said:


> To the matter of Satan bribing people, Satan cannot and will not give us good things. They are not his to give. He can only produce counterfeits.
> 
> What he can do is turn the hearts of men toward things so that we place their significance above God. They are called idols. Satan deceives us to destroy us. Those who fall for his lies are willing accomplices in their own demise.



Amen!

satan comes to kill, steal and destroy us and he will trick us up and trip us up with whatever means we will fall for.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't think it's accurate to say that only God has the power to grant worldly things to men.

Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for what is delivered unto me: and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.


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## shakey gizzard (Jan 23, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Other than the ability to play the guitar "real good", are there any other worldly things that you believe are given by Satan to bribe people away from following God?



Dont forget the golden fiddle!


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## Ronnie T (Jan 23, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't think it's accurate to say that only God has the power to grant worldly things to men.
> 
> Luke 4:5-7
> And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for what is delivered unto me: and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.



It was a lie.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't think it's accurate to say that only God has the power to grant worldly things to men.
> 
> Luke 4:5-7
> And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for what is delivered unto me: and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.



The devil is a liar, he will lie to you.....it's like come here little girl, want some candy? from a perv.....he'll promise you something but it won't be what you think it's gonna be. 

satan couldn't have given Christ all the kingdoms of the world....Christ knew he already would inherit all that.....satan just gives you a counterfeit of what God really has for you.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> It was a lie.



Yep!! sho wuz!


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## hummerpoo (Jan 23, 2012)

HJ asked "Can anyone explain why I don't see either of these clearly visible in the world?" 



hummerpoo said:


> Duet. 29:4.  "Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear."



The immediate context (that which tells us what it says) of Deut. 29:4 is Chapters 29 & 30.  The broader context (that which tells us what it means) is the book of Deuteronomy.  I believe that the answer to the question posed won't be found in looking at Satan but in looking at God's revelation of Himself.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 23, 2012)

Was Jesus really tempted by Satan? Does Satan work with/for God to test people? Isn't he powerful enough to be given titles of "Prince of Power" and  "King of the World"? How many conversations with Satan are in the Bible? I can think of Eve, Jesus,& God discussing Job with the Devil. I read that we are tempted daily by Satan just a Eve and Jesus was. Is that the only two stories of temptation by Satan in the bible?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 24, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Was Jesus really tempted by Satan? Does Satan work with/for God to test people? Isn't he powerful enough to be given titles of "Prince of Power" and  "King of the World"? How many conversations with Satan are in the Bible? I can think of Eve, Jesus,& God discussing Job with the Devil. I read that we are tempted daily by Satan just a Eve and Jesus was. Is that the only two stories of temptation by Satan in the bible?




I get tempted every day. Temptation from satan will never die, we have to die to temptation.

Most of us are tempted on a daily basis, even if it's only to use sign language when we're driving

Anytime anyone sins, it's from satan. And I personally don't know one single perfect person that doesn't sin.

satans works are throughout the entire bible. David killed his love rival over his earthly wife. Then his son raped his own sister(davids daughter). Peter lied about Christ for earthly reasons. 

As far as some one selling their soul to be in a huge rock band or be a millionaire, I believe it happens.

satan is alive and well on planet earth, he sends his demons after me every day nipping at my heels, while satan himself is after bigger fish, like obama, mega church pastors...etc etc.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 24, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> It was a lie.



If it was a lie, then Jesus being God (trinity) would have known it to be a lie.  If Jesus knew that what satan was offering was a lie, then Jesus was not truly tempted.  

I believe that Jesus did in fact resist real temptation, therefore the bribe that was being offered would have had to be something that Jesus knew was a real offer.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 24, 2012)

That was my line of reasoning too. If Jesus was really tempted, then i'll have to rethink my earlier answer that Satan couldn't bribe or give you something.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 24, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> That was my line of reasoning too. If Jesus  was really tempted, then i'll have to rethink my earlier answer that  Satan couldn't bribe or give you something.



Consider...

*Hebrews 4:15*
 "For we do not have  a high priest (Jesus Christ) who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but _One who has been  *tempted* in all things as we are_, yet  without sin."

Satan was the prince of this world until the cross made an open show of him, defeating both satan and the power of sin over everyone who trusts in the Name of Jesus.  In His humanity, all that the devil put before Christ was indeed a sore temptation, but by the Fathers work (and Word) in Christ He was able to endure it.
Such it is with us, the life of Christ in us is the strength and power we need to endure and resist temptation also.

Be of good courage says our Lord, who has overcome the world and shares that victory with every believer.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 24, 2012)

Satan's great temptation is to convince us to trust ourselves, and him, rather than trust God.

Satan primary purpose was to convince Jesus to stop trusting in God.  Jesus stood firm and even explained to Satan what God expected.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 24, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> If it was a lie, then Jesus being God (trinity) would have known it to be a lie.  If Jesus knew that what satan was offering was a lie, then Jesus was not truly tempted.
> 
> I believe that Jesus did in fact resist real temptation, therefore the bribe that was being offered would have had to be something that Jesus knew was a real offer.



If I had been fasting for 40 days, I'm pretty sure it would  be easy in the flesh to be tempted for water and food, that is what satan tempted Jesus with. Jesus could've turned the stone into water and food as satan had tempted Him, but Jesus didn't do it. It was real, because Jesus knew He could do it if He wanted to, but then He would've failed in His fasting.

Just like satan tempts us with things that he knows we will fall for....he'd never tempt me to rob a bank, or kill a person, but he could tempt me with something that would possibly work for me....like come on, what's a 12 pk gonna hurt, or a toke or 5, or anything else that he knows that me personally could fall for....and I have and I probably will again. Not saying anything is wrong with doing those things for a lot of people...but it is for those of us who have had problems with it and been delivered from it. And it really wasn't the substance abuse I had a problem with it was the lifestyle I was addicted to, and I don't wannt go there, I said goodbye to those people a long long time ago. 

I can't be tempted with porn, but maybe you can. I can't be tempted with stealing a little money here or there, but you might can be.
satan knows each one of us and knows what to tempt me personally with, trust me, I know him and he knows me. 

satan knew Jesus was fasting and so he tempted Christ with what Christ probably wanted and needed, water and food.

Oh yeah and I have learned lessons from the Bible and the Jesus within me to rebuke and turn away from the temptations of satan, which really only hurts me and my body, soul and spirit. The devil is a liar.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 25, 2012)

I've been working lately the concept that temptation is a test that has been failed.  So far this definition has worked both in scripture and in life.  This grows from another idea that when confronted with a test, success will be achieved by the application of prayer, trust, and focus.  Prayer to maintain contact with God, trust being the maintenance of the faith provided by God, and focus on God to avoid the misleading of the flesh.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 25, 2012)

So the concept of Satan/temptation was made by God to test us? Did God make Satan as a way to test us?


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## StriperAddict (Jan 25, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> So the concept of Satan/temptation was made by God to test us? Did God make Satan as a way to test us?


 
More important is our attitude when it comes. We can't possibly have joy at the start of a trial/temptation unless, as was stated earlier, we are joined to Him who has empathy for what we are going thru, by also enduring every temptation and trial known to man.  

James 1:2-4

*2* Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 
*3* knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 
*4* And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 

This bears repeating:

*Hebrews 4:15*
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet *without* *sin*.


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## thedeacon (Jan 25, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> As a Southern Baptist, I was raised to believe that Satan bribes people with worldly gifts while the righteous Christian has their rewards waiting for them in heaven.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that heathens are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth while Christians have the least of anything the world has to offer.
> 
> On the contrary, the Bible tells us that righteous Christians will be blessed here on earth.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that righteous Christians are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth.
> 
> Can anyone explain why I don't see either of these clearly visible in the world?



 One of our greatest mistakes in life is underestimating the devil. He TEMPTED Jesus on the Mt. but Jesus had all the answers.

Another mistake is to think that we can recognize the devil every time he comes to us, not so. Sometimes the wolf dresses in sheeps clothing.

To present himself to us in a red suit and a pitchfork would not benifit him nearly as much as a man or a woman in fine clothes and fine jewelery. 

He will deceive us, make us feel good, open doors for us and close doors for us. He is the master of trickery and he is the inventor of evil.

He is truly a wolf in sheeps cloathing.

The worst mistake we could make is to limit God in his work by not trusting him. Yes that is what I said!

Don't limit God by yielding to saten.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Satan's great temptation is to convince us to trust ourselves, and him, rather than trust God.
> 
> Satan primary purpose was to convince Jesus to stop trusting in God.  Jesus stood firm and even explained to Satan what God expected.



I agree with what you said here, but the main issue is defining exactly what power satan has here on earth.

I think that it is clearly understood that satan tries to trick people into turning away from God, and that satan will use whatever he believes might work for each individual.  But the issue still is defining what satan has in his arsenal to tempt people with, other than lies.  

As I said earlier, Jesus knew exactly what power satan has here on earth.  Jesus knew if satan's offer was real.  If satan had no power to grant what he offered, then Jesus would have known it was not possible and could not have been tempted to accept the offer.  

The scripture presents this story as a triumph over actual temptation as opposed to the revealing of a lie.  Jesus did not respond to satan by calling him a liar and explaining how only God has the power to grant such a thing (here on earth).  

The story was presented as an example to mankind of how we should resist temptation.  The significance of this story is greatly diminished if we assume that the offer from satan was not a real offer.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 25, 2012)

I think Satan often tempts us with lies.

He'll tell us:

"Go on out and drink all night.  It's your right!  You deserve it!  Forget about your wife.  She'll get over it."


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## hummerpoo (Jan 25, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> So the concept of Satan/temptation was made by God to test us? Did God make Satan as a way to test us?



To answer your second question I would have to attribute motive to God’s action, either affirmatively or negatively, that I am not aware of His having revealed.  That is something I am not willing to do.

Stepping around that issue on the first question; some of the things that involve Satan directing, and contribute to my thinking, are: in Genesis God created the serpent; in the first two chapters of Job all three characters (God, Satan, and Job) attribute Job’s devastation to God; and in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus was led, either to or through, his trials in the wilderness by the Spirit.

This is a subject that one could easily devote oneself to for years and still not be certain that he had exhausted the subject.  As I stated previously, the “working definition” has worked for me so far.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 26, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I think Satan often tempts us with lies.
> 
> He'll tell us:
> 
> "Go on out and drink all night.  It's your right!  You deserve it!  Forget about your wife.  She'll get over it."



I agree with you, but you completely avoided the question.

Does satan have the power on earth to grant worldly gifts?


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## HawgJawl (Jan 26, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> One of our greatest mistakes in life is underestimating the devil. He TEMPTED Jesus on the Mt. but Jesus had all the answers.



Do you believe that the offer from satan was a real offer?  Even if the offer was temporary and only for this world, as long as God allowed this world to continue, was it within satan's power to give?


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## thedeacon (Jan 26, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Do you believe that the offer from satan was a real offer?  Even if the offer was temporary and only for this world, as long as God allowed this world to continue, was it within satan's power to give?



I believe it was a real offer!! wheather or not he could deliver is another question, the offer was not to give Christ anything, the offer was just to have Christ accept, that was the total goal. 

Thats why we need to be careful not to turn to saten, you notice Christ said "Get they behind me", or in other words I am turning away from you.

The bible did say saten tempted him, not attempted to tempt him.

What do you read into that????? Was Jesus tempted of saten or not????


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## HawgJawl (Jan 26, 2012)

From post #43



HawgJawl said:


> I agree with what you said here, but the main issue is defining exactly what power satan has here on earth.
> 
> I think that it is clearly understood that satan tries to trick people into turning away from God, and that satan will use whatever he believes might work for each individual.  But the issue still is defining what satan has in his arsenal to tempt people with, other than lies.
> 
> ...





thedeacon said:


> I believe it was a real offer!! wheather or not he could deliver is another question,



"Whether or not he could deliver" is my question.

Satan is given the title of Prince of this World in:
John 12:31
John 14:30
John 16:11

Satan is given the title of God of this World in:
II Corinthians 4:4

Satan is given the title of Prince of the Power of the Air in:
Ephesians 2:2


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## HawgJawl (Jan 26, 2012)

I've found over 67 different scriptures all throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelations that address sorcery in one form or another.  

Acts 16:16-18   Tells of a young woman who was possessed by a spirit of divination, who made money as a soothsayer.  Paul commanded the spirit to come out of her in the name of Jesus Christ, and the spirit came out of her.

This is just one of many examples throughout the Bible of supernatural powers that are not from God.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 26, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> From post #43
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only correction I would make to your writings above is to remove the capital letters from 'god' and "prince of the power of the air'

God's word doesn't give Satan the title of "God".  It is clear that there is only one God.  Satan is god only to those who are so full of evil that they seek him rather than the One true God.


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2012)

I still cannot figure out how the A#1 direct enemy of the almighty is not only allowed to exist but flourish! God's word doesn't give Satan the title of anything nor does it take anything away from Satan.

Why the heck does spell check want satan capitalized???? Unless satan is responsible for spell check.....


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## Ronnie T (Jan 26, 2012)

Same reason Lassie is capitalized.

.


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## ambush80 (Jan 26, 2012)

bullethead said:


> I still cannot figure out how the A#1 direct enemy of the almighty is not only allowed to exist but flourish! God's word doesn't give Satan the title of anything nor does it take anything away from Satan.
> 
> Why the heck does spell check want satan capitalized???? Unless satan is responsible for spell check.....



If you ignore a crime you are complicit.


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Same reason Lassie is capitalized.
> 
> .



You addressed the easiest out of the two but I guess I can't blame you.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 26, 2012)

Does satan need God's permission to do evil?


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## Ronnie T (Jan 26, 2012)

bullethead said:


> You addressed the easiest out of the two but I guess I can't blame you.



Sorry.  I was just answering your question.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 26, 2012)

What gift could Satan possibly give to a person?

.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Does satan need God's permission to do evil?



Now we're getting somewhere.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 27, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> As a Southern Baptist, I was raised to believe that Satan bribes people with worldly gifts while the righteous Christian has their rewards waiting for them in heaven.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that heathens are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth while Christians have the least of anything the world has to offer.
> 
> On the contrary, the Bible tells us that righteous Christians will be blessed here on earth.  If this is true, it should be clearly visible in the world around us that righteous Christians are the most successful, happiest, and wealthiest people on earth.
> 
> Can anyone explain why I don't see either of these clearly visible in the world?



Simply because the brand of Christianity in you is not sufficient to see what, for it, you suspect is out there. And what you suspect is out there is perhaps simply not out there.

The christian house and its framework which has influence in you is a ridged complex that is set to minister to you as an individual. Its spirituality and your spirituality are viewed from an understanding that the tenants of the faith are literal in meaning and in reality. It is almost a cookbook spirituality where Jesus is flower, God is levin, the Holyspirit is water and Satan is what spawns anything that will corrupt  the 100% purity of the this trinity. Add to this the cults of the individual in our times and it makes for an interesting  but perticular and obscure christianity-- where the american dream reclines in  parallel to heaven. One bucolic scene for another.

Given a 4x binocular to see the moons of Jupitor that some say is out there, "Satan" will surely intervene so you don't see them. But in reality the scope is the problem, both as to see and to understand.

So the scope in you of what is the Good News is not sufficient to begin to understand what is out there. Adding a bit of God with "us" to our "individual" scopes might make a difference in power sufficent to see at least why some don't see this for that clearly visible in "our" world--the spiritual world we share with others.

Cartridge reloaders are told to never mix powders because of the extreme potential dangers inherent in this. A blown cartridge primer in the action is often a sign of something is just not right.  And we know that mixing vinigar with baking soda will make an interesting reaction--but with little benefit other than entertainment. If mixing scripture or spritual ideas do these reactions perhaps we should trace our steps back a bit--pray and pray twice more--and then try again. And that's the way I see it....

Now see this:

Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Now was Jesus talking to Peter or Satan!? Did Peter just have to ignore this because Jesus was not addressing him ie. Peter? Or is Peter apart from Satin here? Or is Peter and Satin one and the same here? Are we potentially our very own Satin--a disposition not apart of us as individual but also as a group?

What is to remember here is that for many because of their christian heritage some will say one thing and others another.  Some seeing this and some seeing that--hoping for hope that they are in the eye of the needle. But is this Christ? Is it the purpose of salvation, of christianity itself?

From the chruch one should always take away from it what is cultural and what is from Christ and make the distinction. To use old time religion parlance, some elements of culture are nearer the "flesh" than to Thee. And from that "flesh" part of culture it is though to juggle this bit of scripture with that bit...because try as it might, it cannot see past the lines of text and onto the world of Spirit. It simply has no eyes for it.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 27, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> Now we're getting somewhere.


 
Yes. Satan asked permission to "sift Peter like wheat", Jesus said to Peter that He would pray his faith would not fail, but didn't say He would take away the trial.

The trials of our faith are more precious than gold... where ever they come from, providing we are not "walking according to the flesh" and making our own lives miserable... something that is NOT of the Lord.

Consider also the book of Job; Satan was handed permission to do near everything to Job but not take his life.  Job endured, kept the faith, didn't curse God, and got the "gold" in the end.

One of the greatest "life verses"...

*Romans 8:28*
And we know that God causes all things to *work* *together* for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2012)

For some reason the story of Job reminds me of the "good cop/bad cop routine.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 27, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> For some reason the story of Job reminds me of the "good cop/bad cop routine.



Yes exactly, except Job was his own bad cop and judge. Had Satin killed him as from depression or post thromatic syndrome or some other cause, Job's story would have gone..... Know where? What saved him from himself, perhaps not unlike as with Abraham--was his faith which he kept working on and learning. His heart never turned to hardness and he prospered for it.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 27, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Yes exactly, except Job was his own bad cop and judge. Had Satin killed him as from depression or post thromatic syndrome or some other cause, Job's story would have gone..... Know where? What saved him from himself, perhaps not unlike as with Abraham--was his faith which he kept working on and learning. His heart never turned to hardness and he prospered for it.


Indeed!

And wouldn't such a person be well equipped after his trials to speak to the hurts and fears of those around him in his day?  I guess we could call Job a type of Him who was to come, a picture of that pure, humble suffering servant who didn't shun the wood and the nails.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 27, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> What gift could Satan possibly give to a person?
> 
> .



Satan obviously gave the young woman in Acts 16:16-18 the ability to "soothsay".  If the spirit that Paul cast out of her was not an "evil" spirit, then why would God cast out the spirit?


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## stringmusic (Jan 27, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Satan obviously gave the young woman in Acts 16:16-18 the ability to "soothsay".  If the spirit that Paul cast out of her was not an "evil" spirit, then why would God cast out the spirit?



I just jumped in this thread and I haven't read much, but I'll take a shot at your question.

Not everything that is good is good for you. I am not saying the spirit the young woman had was good or evil, just answering your question.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Satan obviously gave the young woman in Acts 16:16-18 the ability to "soothsay".  If the spirit that Paul cast out of her was not an "evil" spirit, then why would God cast out the spirit?



What about the prophets in the Bible, are they not basically the same things as a soothsayer?  I believe you can use the gifts God gave you for Him or for satan. I don't doubt that soothsayers even today exist and predict whatever, I just wouldn't want to enter that arena. Sort of a like a ouija board....opening a door to a spiritual world that is not of God...and I've done it, long ago, and about didn't make it out alive.

satan and his demons worked on me for years.....like wow why would you want to sit around on saturday night when you can go out to a club and hook up, get hammered, smoke cigs or whatever else, hang out with other earthly demons, stay in darkness...

the devil promises you temporary things to make you feel good, or make you feel better, but that's it.  I'm not saying it's all that evil to go to clubs/bars etc.....but for me that's what I fell for and satan knew that. And I bet there wasn't a thurs, friday and saturday night that I wasn't out for 20 yrs trying to find something to make me happy.....the dang devil lied to me. I never found happiness there.  All it did was ruin whatever relationships I had, drive my mama and daddy insane, be a bad influence on my friends, watch some of them die. 

So the devil is a liar if anyone thinks he has anything to offer you better than Christ. And that includes joy, peace, love, and everlasting life in a happy place.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 28, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Yes. Satan asked permission to "sift Peter like wheat", Jesus said to Peter that He would pray his faith would not fail, but didn't say He would take away the trial.
> 
> The trials of our faith are more precious than gold... where ever they come from, providing we are not "walking according to the flesh" and making our own lives miserable... something that is NOT of the Lord.
> 
> ...



AMEN, and point by point well said.

For "those who love God" and "who are called according to His purpose" Satan is a clown.  Maybe a little hyperbole.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 28, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> I just jumped in this thread and I haven't read much, but I'll take a shot at your question.
> 
> Not everything that is good is good for you. I am not saying the spirit the young woman had was good or evil, just answering your question.



Throughout the Bible, various acts of sorcery are mentioned several dozen times.  Whether or not I believe in sorcery is irrelevant because God obviously believes that it is real and that it is evil.  It is so evil that anyone practicing an act of sorcery deserves a death sentence.  From the numerous condemnations of sorcery, I believe it is reasonable to conclude that the powers of these "evil spirits" come from somewhere other than God.  

Those powers that come from somewhere other than God are what is being discussed here.  

Everyone agrees that the devil is bad.  Everyone agrees that the devil is a liar.  Everyone agrees that the devil tries to turn people away from God.  The subject being discussed is what powers Satan possesses and what powers or other gifts satan has the ability to give to man.  Not why satan would offer it, but exactly what satan has to offer.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 28, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> ..... but exactly what satan has to offer.



If he's all the evil you mentioned, then _WHY_?


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## hummerpoo (Jan 28, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> The subject being discussed is what powers Satan possesses and what powers or other gifts satan has the ability to give to man.  Not why satan would offer it, but exactly what satan has to offer.



Hmmm, sitting around trying to guess what the clown's next trick will be; sounds entertaining.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 28, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> If he's all the evil you mentioned, then _WHY_?



"WHY" what?


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## HawgJawl (Jan 28, 2012)

One of the first things a military unit evaluates prior to launching an attack is the capabilities of the enemy;

1.  Enemy's composition, distribution, and strength.

2. Enemy's capabilities and limitations.

3. Enemy's most likely course of action.

I'm not advocating worshiping satan.  I'm saying that it's not a bad thing to know the capabilities and limitations of your enemy.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 28, 2012)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie T  
What gift could Satan possibly give to a person?
........................ 



HawgJawl said:


> Satan obviously gave the young woman in Acts 16:16-18 the ability to "soothsay".  If the spirit that Paul cast out of her was not an "evil" spirit, then why would God cast out the spirit?



I assumed your original question had to do with satan handing out good stuff to reward people who did bad stuff.

I really cannot discuss soothsayers or evil spirits as to whether they're bad gifts or good gifts, or if they come from God, the devil, or if they are selfgoverned.
I just don't know.

Let me ask you this:  Do you believe Satan could have actually given Jesus all the kingdom's of the world??
Yes or No.

I don't.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 28, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> One of the first things a military unit evaluates prior to launching an attack is the capabilities of the enemy;
> 
> 1.  Enemy's composition, distribution, and strength.
> 
> ...



From the discussion of the Perfect High Priest:
(caps are OT quotes)
Heb. 2
 11.  For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one {Father;} for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
 12.  saying, "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE." 
 13.  And again, "I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM." And again, "BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME."
 14.  Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
 15.  and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

No fear of that enemy here, I'll just call my Big Brother.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 28, 2012)

Thomas Jefferson read the Koran when we were having problems with Muslim pirates on the Barbary coast to learn who his enemy was. The post was what gifts could Satan give, not his tactics. I don't think it was an unfair or clown question. I think Satan could give Jesus the kingdom of the world, which might have been just something a man could possess while on earth. If he couldn't have done this then Jesus was never really tempted. Jesus had freewill as a man otherwise he couldn't have been tempted. I don't know how his freewill and prophecy coexist. If he didn't go through with everything he was supposed to have done God might would have had to send another. Maybe God steered him to the point of limited freewill which would mean he couldn't have been really tempted.


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## gtparts (Jan 28, 2012)

I don't think soothsaying can be equated to the gift of prophesy. The woman in Acts 16 was clearly in bondage, in more than one way.

Secondly, the idea that Satan can reward with "good" things is only true if one accepts the world's definition of "good".

He only gives those things of earthly value in order to entrap us in sin, but the things of eternal significance are not his to give. He does have certain power that he uses to destroy us, if he can. If he can prevent us from being in right relationship to God, if he can cause some to fall by inciting them to covetousness over the things that others possess, if he can ensnare us in any form of idolatry, he won't hesitate to try.

Scripture describes Satan as a "roaring lion, seeking whom he may destroy". That is a completely accurate characterization. But, his power is limited by a merciful God, who despises what Satan tries to do to His creation, even now. Further, we know from Scripture that Satan has already lost, is already condemned, so that he will receive the just punishment when God sets all things right. Satan is not only a liar, but a loser in every sense of the word.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree GT.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 28, 2012)

gtparts said:


> I don't think soothsaying can be equated to the gift of prophesy. The woman in Acts 16 was clearly in bondage, in more than one way.
> 
> Secondly, the idea that Satan can reward with "good" things is only true if one accepts the world's definition of "good".
> 
> ...




I agree with all you've said. Except I do believe we have God given gifts that people don't use to the glory of God....ie soothsaying, guitar playing, an awesome voice (Janice Joplin, whoever), a great salesman (drug dealers)
Surely satan cannot give those gifts but he can twist them to his own purpose. Honestly you don't think that satan can give any of these gifts to anyone do you? God gives us the gifts, satan steals them and turns them into something to benefit his purpose...because satan only comes to kill, steal and destroy us.
How is a fortune teller/soothsayer/ or anyone who can foretell the future  any different than someone who can heal or prophesy the future? God gives those gifts not satan.  I have had my fortune read and it was dead on, satan didn't give that gift to that person, but that person didn't do God's work with their gift. I guess you'd have to have been there..

Just like some of the great musicians that we know were gifted by God but didn't do God's work with their gift.
satan cannot gift us anything, all he does is steal our gift to lure others to him. satan uses super musicians especially to lure folks over to the dark side. The gift of musicianship was given by God but stolen by satan.

Anyway, jmho


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## HawgJawl (Jan 29, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ronnie T
> What gift could Satan possibly give to a person?
> ...



I believe that satan could have given Jesus all the powers and authority that satan possesses or are under satan's control, and I believe that satan would have given those powers to Jesus for as long as Jesus worshiped satan.  And I believe that all of this would be in place until God decided to limit or stop satan's rule over the world.

The question remains;  What exactly are "all the powers and authority that satan possesses or are under satan's control"?


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## HawgJawl (Jan 29, 2012)

gtparts said:


> the idea that Satan can reward with "good" things is only true if one accepts the world's definition of "good".



I don't remember saying that gifts were "good".  If I did label them as "good", I didn't mean to.



> But, his power is limited by a merciful God, who despises what Satan tries to do to His creation, even now.



You state that satan's power is limited.  I agree.  I am trying to define exactly what "power" remains after this partial limiting.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 29, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I agree with all you've said. Except I do believe we have God given gifts that people don't use to the glory of God....ie soothsaying, guitar playing, an awesome voice (Janice Joplin, whoever), a great salesman (drug dealers)
> Surely satan cannot give those gifts but he can twist them to his own purpose. Honestly you don't think that satan can give any of these gifts to anyone do you? God gives us the gifts, satans steals them and turns them into something to benefit his purpose.
> How is a fortune teller/soothsayer/ or anyone who can foretell the future  any different than someone who can heal or prophesy the future? God gives those gifts not satan.  I have had my fortune read and it was dead on, satan didn't give that gift to that person, but that person didn't do God's work with their gift. I guess you'd have to have been there..
> 
> ...



I don't believe that God gives "supernatural powers" to people to use any way they like.  The Bible leads me to believe that "supernatural powers" from God come with strict limitations and only work under strict guidlines.  

Miracles that were attributed to God were possible only when they were performed by a follower with sufficient faith who was performing the miracle for the "right" reasons and the whole thing was done to glorify God and/or spread the word of God.

When Moses was "duelling" with Pharaoh's magicians, it's difficult to believe that God was performing the miracles for both sides.  The question of why God allowed Pharaoh's magicians to perform the same miracles goes along with the question of why God allows satan to exist at all, and is a different subject.  I believe that the powers exhibited by Pharaoh's magicians came from somewhere other than God, because those powers were used against God and not by true believers with strong faith for the purpose of glorifying God.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't believe that God gives "supernatural powers" to people to use any way they like.  The Bible leads me to believe that "supernatural powers" from God come with strict limitations and only work under strict guidlines.  *I didn't understand that we were talking about supernatural powers, I thought we were talking about gifts from God that satan steals and uses for his own self.*
> 
> Miracles that were attributed to God were possible only when they were performed by a follower with sufficient faith who was performing the miracle for the "right" reasons and the whole thing was done to glorify God and/or spread the word of God.*I agree with that.*
> 
> When Moses was "duelling" with Pharaoh's magicians, it's difficult to believe that God was performing the miracles for both sides.  The question of why God allowed Pharaoh's magicians to perform the same miracles goes along with the question of why God allows satan to exist at all, and is a different subject.  I believe that the powers exhibited by Pharaoh's magicians came from somewhere other than God, because those powers were used against God and not by true believers with strong faith for the purpose of glorifying God.*Of course that power was being manipulated from somewhere other than God, I didn't know we were talking all that deep, I just thought we were talking about common folk and promises from satan, my bad.*



I guess, as usual I'm just confused as to what we're talking about here.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I believe that satan could have given Jesus all the powers and authority that satan possesses or are under satan's control, and I believe that satan would have given those powers to Jesus for as long as Jesus worshiped satan.  And I believe that all of this would be in place until God decided to limit or stop satan's rule over the world.
> 
> The question remains;  What exactly are "all the powers and authority that satan possesses or are under satan's control"?



In my personal opinion satan only possesses the ability of mind control...he tries to steal our soul and spirit and uses great multitudes of people together sometimes to do that, like folks who are tricked into worshiping super stars and that makes the super stars be what satan promised them(when they sell their souls to play for Blue Oyster Cult or whoever) All satan can do is steal, kill and destroy and trick and trip us up.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm giving 2:1 odds that while we're trying to figure all this out Satan is laughing his butt off and marking up the score board on his side.  Any takers.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> I'm giving 2:1 odds that while we're trying to figure all this out Satan is laughing his butt off and marking up the score board on his side.  Any takers.



he might be laughing but he's still a big loser and we got his number......he shoulda kilt me when he had the chance....i got away from him....ain't much he can do to me now.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 30, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> All satan can do is steal, kill and destroy and trick and trip us up.



None of the things you listed above require supernatural powers.  They can all be done by mortal men.  Do you believe that satan possesses no greater "supernatural" powers than man?  

Can satan be invisible to man?  Can satan communicate with man telepathically?  Can satan communicate with millions of people simultaneously?  Does satan know the exact location of he!! and can satan travel to and from he!! at will?  Can satan gain ownership of human souls?  Can satan challenge God to a contest in which God will accept the contest and agree to compete with satan?  

*I don't understand why everyone on here is either reluctant or scared to admit that satan possesses powers.*  Satan clearly possesses powers. I'm not insinuating that these powers are as great as God's powers or that God could not crush satan at any time He chooses.  I'm just saying that satan has "supernatural" powers, and there are examples in the bible of humans performing "supernatural" acts through evil sprits that were condemned by God.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 30, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> None of the things you listed above require supernatural powers.  They can all be done by mortal men.  Do you believe that satan possesses no greater "supernatural" powers than man? *I know kill, steal and destroy can be done by man and that's what men do under the control of satan. satan doesn't do anything good, is what I'm saying. He does have power over people, I did not mean that he didn't. Of course he does, he had power over me for a long time even during a time that I had already been saved. But when I say say steal, I'm saying steal my soul, no man can do that.....kill my spirit, no mortal man can do that. No doubt satan has powers, if we let him be in control, he definately does.*
> 
> Can satan be invisible to man?  Can satan communicate with man telepathically?  Can satan communicate with millions of people simultaneously?  Does satan know the exact location of he!! and can satan travel to and from he!! at will?  Can satan gain ownership of human souls?  Can satan challenge God to a contest in which God will accept the contest and agree to compete with satan?  *Of course he can. But when I'm saying he comes to kill, steal and destroy, I'm not only talking about in the natural, but also in the supernatural. I just assumed I suppose, that that was understood.*
> 
> *I don't understand why everyone on here is either reluctant or scared to admit that satan possesses powers.*  Satan clearly possesses powers. I'm not insinuating that these powers are as great as God's powers or that God could not crush satan at any time He chooses.  I'm just saying that satan has "supernatural" powers, and there are examples in the bible of humans performing "supernatural" acts through evil sprits that were condemned by God.



I don't believe anyone here doesn't believe satan has powers. But with God on our side, if that is what we choose then ultimately satan cannot destroy us....he may be able to destroy or kill us on earth, but if we belong to God in spirit then satan cannot touch us as far as eternity goes.....satan makes me miserable sometimes, I try not to let him, but he and/or his demons nip at my heals all the time. They want me to go back to drinkin' and actin' like a fool and whatever else, reminding me constantly that i'm alone with no husband and no one to love me, or at least trying to make me think that, promisin' that if I hang out in a bar I can find love....that's a lie and a way to destroy me in oh so many ways.

I believe even in extreme measures of how the devil works, like I said if so and so rockn'roll band wants to sell their souls to the devil, satan can make that happen by using thousands of other souls to support the band and make the band famous. Even though I believe that the original gift of musicianship was given from God and satan wants to steal it.

Does that help make my point any?

If in fact satan wants to send someone to kill me, yes he could have enough mind control over that person to make that happen. Is it actually satan that lands the killing blow....could be...but he's working thru another person who has allowed satan to be in control enough to physically kill me. Or a drunk driver, or whatever. But until it's my time to go, or God allows it, since I belong to Him, then satan can't do a whole lot...he just moves onto bigger fish. Someone like swaggart or martin luther king etc etc. Even though both of those people belong to God, satan can destroy or kill them by using temptation on their part or on the part of another person....that's what i'm talking about kill steal and destroy, no one does those things even in the natural without satan being involved.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 30, 2012)

Is "Sin" one of satan's powers?

When we talk about sin, we mostly refer to 'acts' of disobedience (or whatever is not of faith), but there is another principle about sin that's worth a look in this study.

Because satan is not omnipresent (like God, existing everywhere simultaneously), he uses a very nasty tool called the _power of sin_ as his "agent". This same power, crafted by the one who despises your very soul, was defeated at the cross of Christ within every believer. 

But before believing, the power of sin is what wires our brain into false ideas/beliefs about God, and false beliefs about how we can get our needs met apart from God. 

After we come to the cross and are given the Holy Spirit, the power of sin still resides in our flesh (Galatians 5:17 and Romans 6:12-14) to bring thoughts against us. By faith we can have the victory over these as we yield to God. The good news is that our inner spirit man no longer has this sin "power" or "agent" within him, since the old Adamic nature was crucified. And it is by Christ's work within us and thru us that we can take authority over this in Jesus name. This work of faith, in conjunction with the renewal of the mind of the believer, is the key to growth and victory in the life of faith.  Praise God we are joined to the one who has freely given us the victory!

*Isaiah 54:17*
“ No *weapon* (power) that is *formed* against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their vindication is from Me,” declares the LORD.

There's much more to be said, but I may be derailing the thread, and time is a constraint!
Peace out, ya'll


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## HawgJawl (Jan 30, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> the main issue is defining exactly what power satan has here on earth.





> the issue still is defining what satan has in his arsenal to tempt people with, other than lies.





HawgJawl said:


> Those powers that come from somewhere other than God are what is being discussed here.
> 
> The subject being discussed is what powers Satan possesses and what powers or other gifts satan has the ability to give to man.  Not why satan would offer it, but exactly what satan has to offer.





HawgJawl said:


> I'm not advocating worshiping satan.  I'm saying that it's not a bad thing to know the capabilities and limitations of your enemy.





HawgJawl said:


> The question remains;  What exactly are "all the powers and authority that satan possesses or are under satan's control"?





HawgJawl said:


> You state that satan's power is limited.  I agree.  I am trying to define exactly what "power" remains after this partial limiting.



After asking the same question several times, I finally have one answer.

Thank you Mt. Woman.

You say that you believe that one of the "supernatural" powers that satan possesses is mind control.

That leads me to ask how mind control from satan works with free-will.  In other words, if someone under the mind control of satan commits a sin, should they be held accountable for the commission of that sin since they didn't choose to commit the sin?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 30, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> After asking the same question several times, I finally have one answer.
> 
> Thank you Mt. Woman.
> 
> ...



I personally think there are levels of evil....not meaning levels of sin as far as God is concerned.

When I'm saying mind control, I mean like selling your soul to satan for something.
Even though i've been sinful, I have limits of things that I would do, some people don't have that ability when it comes to a stopping point....someone that would molest or rape and kill a child is pretty much at the bottom of my list...I think satan is in full control of a person like that.  And there can be no good in you at all to commit such a crime....no conviction of any kind, totally in bondage to satan.  Can they be converted, I don't know....I tend to believe they could be, but I'm not sure with a mind that thinks like that, I just don't know.

I'll use myself as an example, as usual....lol.

I was involved with musicians for years, and was around not only the musicians but the 'spectators' also. I've had people put a handful of speed in my hand, that I put in my pocket, then thru away. I've seen people shoot up drugs a few times, I could hardly stand the 'evilness' in that....even though I was probably hammered on tequila at the time...and what I was doing was no better than what they were doing. So when I look back there was something about belonging to God that satan could only influence me to a certain limit. (even though of course I was backsliden at the time) No telling what I could've been talked into had I not belonged to God, because it was all available to me at one point or another. My poison of choice was alcohol, not every day, I was mostly a weekend warrior.

I was encircled with drug dealers, too. One of my best friends husband is in the federal pen. and has been since 83 for interstate trafficking of cocaine. I was right up in there with all that going on, the bloodhounds and the drug dogs and the swat team, all that missed by the skin of my teeth, just for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Thank God I wasn't there at that moment and I didn't even know the depth of what really was going on.

I did have free will though to sin if I had chosen to, and satan still wants me back. But I have free will not to go back, I do not belong to him....he can't make me do anything, just terrorizes me sometimes with temptation...'hey remember how much fun you used to have'.....and I did have a blast, I have to admit.

I know I'm rambling but I've always got a little to say with a lot of words....

I guess my point is that had I personally not belonged to God all that time, satan could've had me do his bidding, I don't know if I would've had the conviction I had during all those backsliden years. From things I've seen though and people I've been around (nothing like child molesters that I know of) but just everyday people, I could've been tricked up by them along with satans control over them and be dead or in jail. I made a lot of bad choices, and knew that a demon of alcohol 'hadda holta me'...so I know that much more evil demons latch onto easy prey....and I have a keen sense of discernment of spirits now.

My father never drank, my mother never drank, and we all went to church, so it wasn't in how I was raised. I didn't even know there was pot in the united states until I was 23yrs old nor did I know where a bar was....not one single bar.  Then satan brought someone into my life and all that changed in one year.....I just thank God, it wasn't a worse person than it was....yep I was tricked and tripped up by the wrong person aiding and abetting satan.

Sorry so long.
I know that feeling of satan having a hold on you and you can't get away, or at least it seems like you can't....or what you're doing isn't that bad...blah blah blah...i'm a pretty good person blah blah blah.....but personally I am extremely lucky to even still be alive. Looking back, I just don't know how or why I did it, it's scary just thinking back about it.

Ramblin' Rose
or She who always bares her soul.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 30, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> That leads me to ask how mind control from satan works with free-will.  In other words, if someone under the mind control of satan commits a sin, should they be held accountable for the commission of that sin since they didn't choose to commit the sin?



We are accountable because we have free will to sin or not. satan only controls our minds if we let him...and that's by our free will in letting him.  I think there could be a point where we can't come back. I don't want to find that out though for myself.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 31, 2012)

Folks have said that the greatest trick the devil ever performed was to convince the world that he doesn't exist.

I'd like to present a close second in convincing Christians that he has no powers.

When a false prophet appears who is able to perform miraculous acts, don't question, just follow, because only God has powers, so it couldn't possibly be from satan.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 1, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Folks have said that the greatest trick the devil ever performed was to convince the world that he doesn't exist.
> 
> I'd like to present a close second in convincing Christians that he has no powers.
> 
> When a false prophet appears who is able to perform miraculous acts, don't question, just follow, because only God has powers, so it couldn't possibly be from satan.



Right on!

And we wonder why bad things happen to good people...satan sends someone to kill them, destroy them, and steal their lives. Look how many successful men have fallen to the power of cocaine for example....satan sent someone into their life to destroy them. We have to always be clad with the armor of God to defeat those things...but sometimes we leave ourselves wide open for defeat....been there, done that, and that was ignorance on my part of the power satan can have.  But once I smelt so much like 'smoke' I came to the conclusion that I was no longer in control of my actions and I was brought to my knees by God....and I gotta thank Him for that....for saving my spirit and lucky to have my mind and body a little longer to share that info.


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