# Jasper cnty game warden rumor?



## turky93 (Mar 6, 2010)

Supposedly, a Jasper county game warden was killed last night in an incident with some poachers. 
Anybody hear anything about it? 
I've got the warden's name, but I'm not going to post it yet as I dont know exactly what, if anything, went down. 
Since I haven't been able to confirm it, it's just a rumor so far.


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## GA DAWG (Mar 6, 2010)

Dang I hope its false!


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## Dawgy_Daddy (Mar 6, 2010)

U. S. Forest Service Law Enforcement officer not game warden.    Not many details released yet.....have heard he was investigating complaints of poachers.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 6, 2010)

negative ghost rider!...we usually get emails or alerts of any LEO killed within 24 hours....and my uncle that lives and works for the city of Monticello said nothing even been spoke of....


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## ditchdoc24 (Mar 6, 2010)

Chief, who's your uncle? I live in Jasper County and know some of the Monticello officers.


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## dawg2 (Mar 6, 2010)

Yes.  It is true a LEO was killed.


USDA Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer Killed in Accidental Shooting
Saturday, March 6th, 2010 at 7:37 pm

USDA Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer Killed in Accidental Shooting
The following is a joint release from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources Division and the USDA, Forest Service. 


Georgia Department of Natural Resources
Monticello, GA --(AmmoLand.com)- A USDA Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer was fatally shot Friday, March 5, at the Ocmulgee Bluff Equestrian Recreation Area on the Oconee Ranger District of the Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forest in Jasper County.

The officer, Christopher Arby Upton, 37, of Monroe, GA, was on routine patrol in the area about 11 p.m. Two individuals were hunting coyote with a high-powered rifle equipped with night vision and apparently mistook the officer for game. After the shooting, the hunters dialed 911 and reported a hunting incident.

“This is a tragic incident where the loss of a Federal officer’s life could have been avoided,” said Steven Ruppert, Special Agent-in-Charge for the Southern Region of the Forest Service. “This is a devastating loss for Chris’ family, our agency, other law enforcement officers and his friends and neighbors in Monroe.

“All of our thoughts and prayers are with his family,” Ruppert said. “The standard procedure for a hunter is to identify your target and then shoot,” said Homer Bryson, Law Enforcement Colonel for Georgia Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Wildlife Resources Division (WRD). “The hunter failed to do this, and mistook the officer for game. He then shot and instantly killed the officer.”

The shooter, Norman Clinton Hale, 40, McDonough, GA, and an observer, Clifford Allen McGouirk, 41, of Jackson, GA, were hunting coyotes. The incident investigation is being conducted jointly by the Forest Service and GDNR WRD and is ongoing.

Upton, a 4-year veteran of the Forest Service, had previously worked as a game warden for the Department of Defense, US Marine Corps, at Beaufort, South Carolina, and as a conservation officer, game warden and pilot with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. He is survived by his wife, Jessica, and a 4-year-old daughter, Annabelle. Arrangements are pending.


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## mama'en nem (Mar 6, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> negative ghost rider!...we usually get emails or alerts of any LEO killed within 24 hours....and my uncle that lives and works for the city of Monticello said nothing even been spoke of....



recon that one got by you, ghost rider. Prayers for all involved.


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## slip (Mar 6, 2010)

how does a man look like a coyote!! or any other animal out there?!


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## turky93 (Mar 6, 2010)

Certainly is sad. 
No excuse for the shooter either.


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## Paymaster (Mar 6, 2010)

Sad Stuff right there. My Prayers are added for his family and friends.


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## ditchdoc24 (Mar 6, 2010)

Spoke with a friend of mine from the SO and he confirmed that this happened. Sounds very suspicious to me. Hopefully the investigation will figure out exactly what happened. Prayers for him and his family.


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## FishingAddict (Mar 6, 2010)

ditchdoc24 said:


> Spoke with a friend of mine from the SO and he confirmed that this happened. Sounds very suspicious to me. Hopefully the investigation will figure out exactly what happened. Prayers for him and his family.



Not sure it sounds suspicious to me, they called after they shot him. They could have easily ran.  They made a stupid mistake, but must give them at least some credit for calling.

Prayers to the family.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 6, 2010)

finally got email in officer down report....accidental shooting! prayers sent...black band to be worn!


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## turky93 (Mar 6, 2010)

I have a hard time believing that it was an accident... 
Even if it was, I hope they make the shooter explain to Mr.Upton's little girl why she no longer has a father. 
Stupidity is NO excuse for taking a man's life, and I hope they throw the book at him. 
Prayers to the family....


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## rjcruiser (Mar 6, 2010)

FishingAddict said:


> Not sure it sounds suspicious to me, they called after they shot him. They could have easily ran.  They made a stupid mistake, but must give them at least some credit for calling.
> 
> Prayers to the family.



Ditto this....



turky93 said:


> I have a hard time believing that it was an accident...
> Even if it was, I hope they make the shooter explain to Mr.Upton's little girl why she no longer has a father.
> Stupidity is NO excuse for taking a man's life, and I hope they throw the book at him.
> Prayers to the family....



Lots of conclusions you're jumping too.

Can look at it the other way too....what's a warden doing walking around @ 11PM sneaking up on people?  

Too hard to tell what happened from the information given.  Only thing I can tell is something horrible happened that I would wish on now one.

Prayers for the family....prayers for the hunters involved.


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## Resica (Mar 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Ditto this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


His job possibly.


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## Throwback (Mar 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Ditto this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh, his JOB maybe? 

And frankly YOU are jumping to conclustions that he was sneaking up on them. 

Oh but wait, since he was "sneaking up on them" that makes it somewhat OK for them to shoot him cause he looked like a coyote. 








T


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## rjcruiser (Mar 6, 2010)

Resica said:


> His job possibly.





Throwback said:


> Oh, his JOB maybe?
> 
> T



Okay..so your saying..he was doing his job and it got him killed.

Just saying....from the article...you just can't tell enough from the lack of details.

I know...you are always always always to verify your target before you pull the trigger.  

But if I was walking around the woods at 11PM at night...I wouldn't be sneaking up on people that were hunting.  Kinda like not wearing orange during hunting season....just asking for problems.


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## slip (Mar 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Ditto this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats no reason to start shooting at him! unless he posed some sort of a threat to their lives, there's no reason for him to be dead right now.

bottom line is if you cant tell a 2 legged from a 4 legged you dont need to be in the woods.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 6, 2010)

Throwback said:


> Oh, his JOB maybe?
> 
> And frankly YOU are jumping to conclustions that he was sneaking up on them.
> 
> Oh but wait, since he was "sneaking up on them" that makes it somewhat OK for them to shoot him cause he looked like a coyote.



Nope...never said that.  I'm saying you can't tell anything from this article....and people are already jumping to conclusions...but I guess...that is standard procedure for most members on here.


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## Throwback (Mar 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Okay..so your saying..he was doing his job and it got him killed.
> 
> Just saying....from the article...you just can't tell enough from the lack of details.
> 
> ...



1) I'll bet you 20 dollars he was working which by defintion means he was doing his job. 



> The officer, Christopher Arby Upton, 37, of Monroe, GA, was on routine patrol in the area about 11 p.m



2) Dont apply to be a game warden. You won't make it. 



T


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## droptinegirl1 (Mar 7, 2010)

It saddens me to hear of accidents like this that could have been prevented by getting a clear ID on their target. Now that poor little girl has to grow up without a father. It is things like this that make hunters look bad. There are entirely too many hunting accidents. I bet the shooter is feeling horrible right now. It would be awful to know that you killed someone because you weren't following safety procedures while hunting. I bet the guilt is killing him. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. I don't think I could live with myself if it were me. Prayers sent up for the family and all involved.


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 7, 2010)

*Job?*



rjcruiser said:


> Okay..so your saying..he was doing his job and it got him killed.



Job did not get him killed, folks pulling a trigger on a target they had not completely identified got him killed. If it's true that they actually thought it was a coyote they were shooting at.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 7, 2010)

Dear God........


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## flyfisher76544 (Mar 7, 2010)

I think some folks would argue with a stump......

Identify your target and know whats beyond it.

Prayers sent.


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## patchestc (Mar 7, 2010)

very tragic all the way around.   prayers for all.


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## VisionCasting (Mar 7, 2010)

Anyone know if charges are pending?


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## marknga (Mar 7, 2010)

Sad situation for all involved. Prayers sent.


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## Laman (Mar 7, 2010)

There are no such things as "accidental" shootings, they are "negligent" shootings and this one sounds agregious.

Prayers to the family.


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## LEON MANLEY (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry for the loss.
Public land, anybody could be out there.
Engaging in an illegal activity, so why not shoot a Ranger while you are at it. 
Don't accuse these bone heads of being hunters they are merely shooters.


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## biggsteve (Mar 7, 2010)

sounds a bit like 'move' hunting.  you know...if it moves, shoot it.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry to hear the sad news.  Our thoughts & prayers are with his families.


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## georgia357 (Mar 7, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> ....accidental shooting! prayers sent...



I might disagree with them.  To me it wasn't accidental. The shooter had something in his sight and pulled the trigger.  No accident there.  Prayers sent for his family.  Can only imagine the grief his daughter is going to have to endure.


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## Dawgy_Daddy (Mar 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Ditto this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chris wasnt a warden, he was a federal law enforcement officer.   There had been reports of illegal activity in this area.


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## FishingAddict (Mar 7, 2010)

It's still kinda funny that some think it was "suspicious"


I can see it now- "Let's kill the officer so he does not write us a poaching ticket, then call in the shooting and be charged with manslaughter."


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## Paleo (Mar 7, 2010)

skoonce said:


> Chris wasnt a warden, he was a federal law enforcement officer.   There had been reports of illegal activity in this area.



Illegal logging?


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 7, 2010)

i'm amazed how some people will begin posting "why was the warden sneaking up on people at night" and some of the remarks that seem to suggest that the hunter's "naturally reacted"....this officer was a father, son, and husband who was doing his job....this man was killed in the line of duty so he could provide for his family! Prayers sent to all LEO's and Firefighter's families who have lost  loved one in the line of duty!


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## rjcruiser (Mar 7, 2010)

FishingAddict said:


> It's still kinda funny that some think it was "suspicious"
> 
> 
> I can see it now- "Let's kill the officer so he does not write us a poaching ticket, then call in the shooting and be charged with manslaughter."



Yup..agree with ya.



chiefsquirrel83 said:


> i'm amazed how some people will begin posting "why was the warden sneaking up on people at night" and some of the remarks that seem to suggest that the hunter's "naturally reacted"....this officer was a father, son, and husband who was doing his job....this man was killed in the line of duty so he could provide for his family! Prayers sent to all LEO's and Firefighter's families who have lost  loved one in the line of duty!



Nobody has posted that.  You need to go back and read the posts....people are jumping to conclusions wanting to hang these two hunters.

Maybe it is deserved...I have no idea.  I'm just pointing out that you can't be judge jury and executioner from this one article.

I feel for the family of the fallen officer.  I pray that the Lord will give them the strength they need.

I also pray for the two hunters.  I doubt this is something that they wanted to happen.  May the Lord also give them the strength that they'll need.


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## Dawgy_Daddy (Mar 7, 2010)

Paleo said:


> Illegal logging?



Was this supposed to be funny?


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## country_guy9734 (Mar 8, 2010)

where was the wardens flashlight??? i dont walk around the woods in complete darkness? thats just not safe.


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## turky93 (Mar 8, 2010)

FishingAddict said:


> It's still kinda funny that some think it was "suspicious"
> 
> 
> I can see it now- "Let's kill the officer so he does not write us a poaching ticket, then call in the shooting and be charged with manslaughter."



So you're saying that you honestly believe the shooters mistook Upton for a coyote? If so, I hope you never pick up a gun. 
It's not funny at all that some of us question how a man is mistaken for ANY animal. 
Maybe you're willing to dismiss it as, "Oh, Im sure they didn't mean any harm. " But hopefully the jury wont be so nieve.


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## Throwback (Mar 8, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

T


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## FishingAddict (Mar 8, 2010)

turky93 said:


> So you're saying that you honestly believe the shooters mistook Upton for a coyote? If so, I hope you never pick up a gun.
> It's not funny at all that some of us question how a man is mistaken for ANY animal.
> Maybe you're willing to dismiss it as, "Oh, Im sure they didn't mean any harm. " But hopefully the jury wont be so nieve.



Let's look at it this way.

Do morons shoot things by mistake, esp at dark? 

Yes, all the time.

Do murderers call up and report what they have done, esp when they are in the middle of no where and they would never be caught if they did not call?

No, not so much.


BTW, just to make it clear, I think the LEO did nothing wrong, he was doing his job.  

The shooter still needs to go to jail.  I'm just saying it's manslaughter, not murder.


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## Twenty five ought six (Mar 8, 2010)

country_guy9734 said:


> where was the wardens flashlight??? i dont walk around the woods in complete darkness? thats just not safe.



Why?  I do it all the time.  I don't need a flashlight to spook the deer going to a deer stand.  Very seldom is darkness "complete."

Mr. Hale may be a prince of a fellow, and the consummate family man, but I just don't understand how you ever mistake a human being for an animal to the extent that you would shoot someone.


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## Paleo (Mar 8, 2010)

skoonce said:


> Was this supposed to be funny?



That is a primary responsibility of USDA Forest Service law enforcement.



> <b>   *
> 
> Illegal outfitter  and guiding
> *
> ...



http://www.fs.fed.us/lei/


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## FishingAddict (Mar 8, 2010)

Paleo said:


> That is a primary responsibility of USDA Forest Service law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fs.fed.us/lei/



From the web site you posted:

Our Objectives 

Protect the public, employees, natural resources, and other property under the jurisdiction of the Forest Service,

Investigate and enforce applicable laws and regulations which effect the National Forest System, and

Prevent criminal violations through informing and educating visitors and users of applicable laws and regulations. 

So, yes, finding poachers is part of their job.


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## coachrollo (Mar 8, 2010)

I know Mr Hale very welland i assure this man is having a very hard time with this. Its not an excuse but two families will be destoyed from this nothing good will come from any of this. My prayers are with both families.


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## silent soul (Mar 8, 2010)

I have been silent long enough!  Paleo, I'm calling you out!  How dare you make light of this incident!  You truly exemplify the cowardice, ignorance, and malevolence law enforcement officers face every day.  May God bless and comfort Ranger Upton and his family.  May God bless those who swear an oath to serve and protect!


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## win280 (Mar 8, 2010)

There is nothing good about this happening.Prayers sent for all involved.


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## mickbear (Mar 8, 2010)

i hope they make this guy sit down with little Annabelle and tell her "you won't ever see your father at christmas again or be able to show him how cute you are in your new easter dress.he wont be able to go trick or treating with you in your new holloween costume,he wont be in the stands when you score your first goal in soccer,he wont be able to be there to teach you how to drive,or meet the guy that ask you out on your first date and let him know that you are his whole world,he wont be there for you cry on his shoulder when that boy friend breaks up with you,or hold you as you cry and look down at that fresh dug that holds your first dog or cat after ya'll  buired them,he wont be there when you graduate from high school,or to change that flat tire on that cold rainy day that you are heading back to college,he wont be there to walk you down the asile at your wedding,or be there for his first grand child all because i didn't make sure of my target and killed your father."this guy should have hand write a letter and  mail this girl every day for this rest of his life telling her how sorry he is that he killed her father.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 8, 2010)

silent soul said:


> I have been silent long enough!  Paleo, I'm calling you out!  How dare you make light of this incident!  You truly exemplify the cowardice, ignorance, and malevolence law enforcement officers face every day.  May God bless and comfort Ranger Upton and his family.  May God bless those who swear an oath to serve and protect!



took the words right out of my mouth!


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## gadeerwoman (Mar 8, 2010)

I wonder if alcohol was involved at all. Another example of why a positive identification of a target can never be stressed enough. Another senseless loss due to carelessness.


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## bloodhound_hunter (Mar 8, 2010)

country_guy9734 said:


> where was the wardens flashlight??? i dont walk around the woods in complete darkness? thats just not safe.


You wouldnt walk around in the dark because its not your job! You also wouldnt use a flashlight if you were trying to find someone who didnt want to be found doing something illegal.  Why on earth would he want to announce his presence! He was shot by hunters.  That does not make it his fault in any way, shape or form.  His family as well as the hunters have to always live with what happened.  Like other posters have said first rule of hunting is ALWAYS (night or day) verify your target BEFORE firing!  They were negligent no matter what the officer was doing.  Some posters make it sound like he was just wondering aimlessly in the woods.  I doubt that was the case.


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## Randy (Mar 8, 2010)

I hope this stops all hunting at night.  It is just unsafe.  There is NO WAY to determine your background is safe every time.


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## Dawgy_Daddy (Mar 8, 2010)

Paleo said:


> That is a primary responsibility of USDA Forest Service law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fs.fed.us/lei/



My wife works with the USFS and has worked with officer Upton in the past and has nothing but the highest regards for him.  The previous Law enforcement officer (now retired) on the Armuchee district is a great friend of ours and at his retirement party he got numerous commendations from FBI, GBI and DEA for the hard work and the drug arrest that he had made.  (wasnt the first one for illegal logging)  I know of several times he would spend ever how many nights it would take staking out a pot field.  You need to be thankful that we have law enforcement in all agencies making it safer for us and our kids.


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## Paleo (Mar 8, 2010)

silent soul said:


> I have been silent long enough!  Paleo, I'm calling you out!  How dare you make light of this incident!  You truly exemplify the cowardice, ignorance, and malevolence law enforcement officers face every day.  May God bless and comfort Ranger Upton and his family.  May God bless those who swear an oath to serve and protect!



Calling me out for what? 


I said nothing disparaging about the officer. Investigating timber theft is one of the main responsibilities of Forest Service LEOs. His death is a tragedy and should be a crime.


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## gunsaler111 (Mar 8, 2010)

Randy said:


> I hope this stops all hunting at night.  It is just unsafe.  There is NO WAY to determine your background is safe every time.


  Night hunting isnt the problem.Cheap early gen.night vision and distance is.If they were using a light ,this man would be alive.Prayers for both sides.


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## silent soul (Mar 10, 2010)

Paleo said:


> Calling me out for what?
> 
> 
> I said nothing disparaging about the officer. Investigating timber theft is one of the main responsibilities of Forest Service LEOs. His death is a tragedy and should be a crime.



Thank you for proving my point.  You can't accept responsibility for making an inappropriate and insensitive comment "timber theft?".  Everyone reading this knows you were mocking the duties of a Forest Service Ranger.


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## Resica (Mar 10, 2010)

silent soul said:


> Thank you for proving my point.  You can't accept responsibility for making an inappropriate and insensitive comment "timber theft?".  Everyone reading this knows you were mocking the duties of a Forest Service Ranger.


I didn't know he was mocking the duties and I don't think he was.


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## SpringfieldChampion (Mar 10, 2010)

Nothing accidental about shooting anything that moves!  Very sad!


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## silent soul (Mar 10, 2010)

Resica said:


> I didn't know he was mocking the duties and I don't think he was.



Paleo's first post was "illegal logging?".  Read all the threads from the beginning.


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## KMAS626 (Mar 10, 2010)

Just curious why everyone is calling these guys poachers?? The last time i looked, hunting coyotes at night was legal..... My opinion: yes, they should identify their target before they shot, the officer should have announced himself and atleast had a flashlight or something to show he was a human being and not an animal. I hate when this type of stuff happens. I send my prayers to the family and guy that pulled the trigger. Everyone on both sides of this story have to live with this for the rest of their life. Never a good thing.


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## silent soul (Mar 10, 2010)

Stop!  None of us know the details.  Stop blaming the officer!  Let the investigation take its course.  Keep your uninformed opinions to yourself and say a prayer for a fallen officer.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 10, 2010)

silent soul said:


> Stop!  None of us know the details.  Let the investigation take its course.  _Keep your uninformed opinions to yourself_ and say a prayer for a fallen officer.



Hmmm.....is this a "do as I say, not as I do?"


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## Nicodemus (Mar 10, 2010)

flyfisher76544 said:


> I think some folks would argue with a stump......
> 
> Identify your target and know whats beyond it.
> 
> Prayers sent.





Yessir.  

The family will be in our prayers.


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## Throwback (Mar 10, 2010)

KMAS626 said:


> Just curious why everyone is calling these guys poachers?? The last time i looked, hunting coyotes at night was legal..... My opinion: yes, they should identify their target before they shot, the officer should have announced himself and atleast had a flashlight or something to show he was a human being and not an animal. I hate when this type of stuff happens. I send my prayers to the family and guy that pulled the trigger. Everyone on both sides of this story have to live with this for the rest of their life. Never a good thing.





So if you are sitting in a tree stand, and I come along and think you're a turkey and blast you out of the tree, it is as much your fault as mine because you didn't holler or "do something to show me you were a human being not an animal" before I shot you?

Or, let's say it's fall of the year and you're fishing along the stream in north ga. I come along and think you're a deer, and shoot you. If you don't do "something to show he was a human being and not an animal" it's not really my fault. 


Or how about this one. A forester is out in the woods doing a timber survey. It's OK to shoot him unless he does "something to show he was a human being and not an animal". 

Or say a couple of boy scouts are on a camping trip in the national forest, and after dark they walk away from the camp for some reason and get lost. They are wandering around and it would be OK to shoot them unless they did "something to show they were human beings and not an animal". 


T


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## Nautical Son (Mar 10, 2010)

KMAS626 said:


> Just curious why everyone is calling these guys poachers?? The last time i looked, hunting coyotes at night was legal..... My opinion: yes, they should identify their target before they shot, the officer should have announced himself and atleast had a flashlight or something to show he was a human being and not an animal. I hate when this type of stuff happens. I send my prayers to the family and guy that pulled the trigger. Everyone on both sides of this story have to live with this for the rest of their life. Never a good thing.



Let me try and give you some insight to the human psyche son ( I call you son because I'm at least twice your age).

People who hunt at night are often labeled as "poachers" because most of the time it is illegal to hunt at night, coyotes- perfectly legal in Georgia with the correct voltage light....where these guys were doing it I have no clue.....

Now the officer/agent whatever you want to label him as was doing an investigation for something....who knows what it was whether it was poaching, stealing timber, growing pot, or a meth lab...so to me he was working an active investigation in the correct manner. 

The gentlemen who were doing the shooting wer eusing a high powered rifle (30.06 I believe) which is typically used at great distances, often times over 200 yards. I don't know if the officer was 2 yards or 2000 yards from them, but they also had a spot light of some sort and night vision of some sort (alledgedly). Now if you give me a spot light and some sort of night vision, I'm sure I could tell the difference between a grown man and a 4 legged coyote at just about any distance that gun would shoot.....

Now you are right everyone involved is gonna have to live with the actions of these 2 guys, and unfortunately there is a young child who will never have the chance to understand why her daddy is no longer coming home.


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## Paleo (Mar 10, 2010)

> A forester is out in the woods doing a timber survey.



Watch out T. You might be "mocking the duties of a forest ranger".

There is no justification for a hunter taking a shot without properly identifying his target and what is behind it. I'm particularly sensitive about this because I often work in the woods, including during hunting season.Working is exactly what the Forest Service officer was doing. The report said he was on routine patrol. Perhaps he was investigating possible illegal outfitting?

FWIW, my father is a forester(retired) and I spent the first 4 years of my life in government housing in a (then) remote National Forest.


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## EEFowl (Mar 11, 2010)

> there really is no excuse for not identifying the target but you have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to safety


So are you saying that if a victim is not being overt then one is justified to not exercising caution when shooting?



> creeping up on coyote hunters in the pitch black is just madness.


You do not have any idea that he was doing this.  Doesn't sound to me like you are curious to see what the facts are brcause your making up some to suit your story.  



> I am curious to see what the facts in this case turn out to be


Why don't you just wait to see what the facts are before you start assigning fault to someone other than the shooter.

EF


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## EEFowl (Mar 11, 2010)

> Crawling through the brush like a coyote while coyotes are being hunted can't be the most intelligent thing to do.



More made up "facts"?  I don't recall reading this in any of the news stories.



> I am curious to see what the facts in this case turn out to be



Apparently your not!

EF


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## Dutch (Mar 11, 2010)

I bet you a dollar that the "hunters" were protecting thier pot patch. 

Alot of illegal pot growing goes on in ONF....I grew up in Jones county and have hunted the ONF for 25 years...have found a few patches myself through the years....they are using the "coyote hunting" excuse as a cover story. 

Time will tell.


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## Hondamototech (Mar 11, 2010)

"At this point, charges, if any, have not been determined," said spokeswoman Melissa Cummings of the Georgia Wildlife Resources Division. "It is still under investigation, and we are working with the Forest Service on this one."

Christopher Arby Upton, 37, of Monroe, Ga., a U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest Service officer, was shot about 11 p.m. Friday. He was patrolling in the Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forest.

The man who shot him, Norman Clinton Hale, 40, of McDonough, Ga., was hunting coyotes with a high-powered rifle equipped with night-vision equipment. He was accompanied by Clifford Allen McGouirk, 41, of Jackson, Ga., authorities said.

According to their accounts of the incident, Upton was behind a berm, using binoculars, and the binocular lenses apparently looked like eyes through the men's night-vision scopes. They later told investigators they mistook Upton for a coyote. They dialed 911 to report the shooting and are cooperating with investigators.

Coyotes are a nuisance species in Georgia, and there is no closed season, Cummings said. They may be hunted year-round, and at night, with no bag limits, and the equipment the men were using is legal for such hunt


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## olcowman (Mar 11, 2010)

_"According to the their accounts of the incident, Upton was behind a berm, using binoculars, and the binocular lenses apparently looked like eyes through the men's night-vision scopes. They later told investigators they mistook Upton for a coyote and shot him. They subsequently dialed 911 to report the shooting and are cooperating with investigators."_ *Quote from Augusta Chronicle*

I have never considered this but it would seem likely there would be a reflection of some type thru night vision equipment.


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## leroy (Mar 11, 2010)

sounds like some really bad judgement on both sides!!


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## Dutch (Mar 11, 2010)

3d foam killer said:


> lets think y in the name of evrything holy would they shoot someone to protect there meth lab then call 911 to report the incident?
> 
> please use the comon sense the good man gave you before post like this



What better way to cover up a killing than claiming it was a hunting accident?

Not saying that is the case, but sometimes you just never know....especially nowdays.

btw....look at from a different perspective than trying to protect your friend/buddy or whatever.


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## EEFowl (Mar 12, 2010)

> sounds like some really bad judgement on both sides!!



Leroy,  I can see how the shooter exercised bad judgement but not the victim.  Could you please explain.
Are you saying that using binoculars is not a good safety practice because someone hunting might be looking at you through the scope of a rifle while you are doing this and shoot you beliving you are an animal.  How is using binoculars to look at something using bad judgement?  I think most of the victim blamers just can't stand the thought that the shooter is responsible, that it somehow has to be somebody elses fault.

EF


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## LEON MANLEY (Mar 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> I hope this stops all hunting at night.  It is just unsafe.  There is NO WAY to determine your background is safe every time.



It is just as safe as hunting in the day time. The stupid "I'm gonna shoot at something then go check it out and see what I got".


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## LEON MANLEY (Mar 12, 2010)

Hondamototech said:


> "At this point, charges, if any, have not been determined," said spokeswoman Melissa Cummings of the Georgia Wildlife Resources Division. "It is still under investigation, and we are working with the Forest Service on this one."
> 
> Christopher Arby Upton, 37, of Monroe, Ga., a U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest Service officer, was shot about 11 p.m. Friday. He was patrolling in the Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forest.
> 
> ...



Bobcat and fox season is not in nor is deer. Someone shoots at something presumed to be an eye of coyote. I wonder how many cats, coons, fox, and deer these two knuckleheads kill in the process of "COYOTE" shooting.
I don't consider either one of these fellows hunters, just              "shooters".


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## t k (Mar 12, 2010)

I am sure there will be a lesson learned from both sides on the unfortunate accident.It is amazing that so many believe this could not be an accident and that they were nothing but dope growing,cat killing "knuckleheads".They obviously made a terrible mistake,one that has the possibilty to destroy their families just as it has this officers.I can easily see how a mistake like this can happen,but those who are perfect and have never made a mistake will never understand.Mistakes happen and sometimes they carry dire consequences,the only thing you can do is learn from it and move on.I have my ideas as to how this happened,but speculation here does no good in my opinion.I would keep all involved in your prayers as this is likely to have severe consequences for all the families involved.


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## Resica (Mar 12, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> It is just as safe as hunting in the day time. The stupid "I'm gonna shoot at something then go check it out and see what I got".


 Based on #'s of "accidents" alone, I would guess it's safer.


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## Hondamototech (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm with TK on this one, My personal opinion of the officer aside this appears to be a tragic accident brought on by bad judgement on both sides.


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## leroy (Mar 12, 2010)

EEFowl said:


> Leroy,  I can see how the shooter exercised bad judgement but not the victim.  Could you please explain.
> Are you saying that using binoculars is not a good safety practice because someone hunting might be looking at you through the scope of a rifle while you are doing this and shoot you beliving you are an animal.  How is using binoculars to look at something using bad judgement?  I think most of the victim blamers just can't stand the thought that the shooter is responsible, that it somehow has to be somebody elses fault.
> 
> EF



crawling around in the bushes at night within sight of someone hunting at night is bad judgement in my book ,would you be willing to take a chance on it?. Yes, the guys should have identified their target 100% without a doubt and no excuse for not. But the ranger could have handled things differently also.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 12, 2010)

One man sent the round down the tube.

As it is with every single discharge of every single weapon there is one finger attached to one human that is responsible for where that bullet goes and all the damage it does.

Our 2nd Amendment rights come with a heavy burden of responsibility and every time anyone, particularly one of us in the gun toting community, tries to shift or minimize that responsibility towards another, we damage the effort to maintain that right.

It is not an 'accident' when a man looks through his sights and squeezes his trigger and hits what he predetermined to be his target.


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## rospaw (Mar 12, 2010)

t k said:


> I am sure there will be a lesson learned from both sides on the unfortunate accident.It is amazing that so many believe this could not be an accident and that they were nothing but dope growing,cat killing "knuckleheads".They obviously made a terrible mistake,one that has the possibilty to destroy their families just as it has this officers.I can easily see how a mistake like this can happen,but those who are perfect and have never made a mistake will never understand.Mistakes happen and sometimes they carry dire consequences,the only thing you can do is learn from it and move on.I have my ideas as to how this happened,but speculation here does no good in my opinion.I would keep all involved in your prayers as this is likely to have severe consequences for all the families involved.



Very well said! I agree 100% with your comments.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 12, 2010)

Based on some responses....it's a good thing I've never had an accident


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## EEFowl (Mar 12, 2010)

> crawling around in the bushes at night within sight of someone hunting at night is bad judgement in my book


I have read NO news stories that indicated that the officer was crawling around on the ground or was even on the ground.  Please post a link to these news articles that say this or explain how you know this.



> Based on some responses....it's a good thing I've never had an accident


You mean an accident where you looked at an unidentified target through the scope of a loaded rifle and then made a decision to shoot this still unidentified target to find out that later that the target was actually a person and that you caused that persons death?  I'm glad you have never had an accident like that too.

EF


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## 1devildog (Mar 12, 2010)

I think it would be best to just wait and see what the investigation reveals. Im not placing blame with the hunters or the LEO, but, accidents happen. One thing we all need to look at, they were predator hunting at night, man is a predator, his eyes face forward, just like a coyote, fox, bobcat and etc. I have had the chance to go out in the past with a friend that was a game wardon, I can say, they do take some extream measures to bust people. If he was trying to sneak up on what he thought was poachers, if he was on his hands and knees going through brushy areas and they caught his eyes at the right angle, they could have easily mistaken him for a coyote. Like I said, Im not defending anyone, but that is about the most logical explination out there, and yes, prayers go out for all envolved.


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## Throwback (Mar 12, 2010)

1devildog said:


> I think it would be best to just wait and see what the investigation reveals. Im not placing blame with the hunters or the LEO, but, accidents happen. One thing we all need to look at, they were predator hunting at night, man is a predator, his eyes face forward, just like a coyote, fox, bobcat and etc. I have had the chance to go out in the past with a friend that was a game wardon, I can say, they do take some extream measures to bust people. If he was trying to sneak up on what he thought was poachers, if he was on his hands and knees going through brushy areas and they caught his eyes at the right angle, they could have easily mistaken him for a coyote. Like I said, Im not defending anyone, but that is about the most logical explination out there, and yes, prayers go out for all envolved.



If he was up in a tree could he have easily been mistaken for a  raccoon? 



T


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## Sweetwater (Mar 12, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> One man sent the round down the tube.
> 
> As it is with every single discharge of every single weapon there is one finger attached to one human that is responsible for where that bullet goes and all the damage it does.
> 
> ...



Amen. Well said.


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## EEFowl (Mar 13, 2010)

> I think it would be best to just wait and see what the investigation reveals. Im not placing blame with the hunters or the LEO, *but, accidents happen*. One thing we all need to look at, they were predator hunting at night, man is a predator, his eyes face forward, just like a coyote, fox, bobcat and etc. I have had the chance to go out in the past with a friend that was a game wardon, I can say, they do take some extream measures to bust people. If *he was trying to sneak up on what he thought was poachers, if he was on his hands and knees going through brushy areas and they caught his eyes at the right angle, they could have easily mistaken him for a coyote*. Like I said, Im not defending anyone, *but that is about the most logical explination out there*, and yes, prayers go out for all envolved.



You are incorrect!  The most logical explaination is the shooter had serious lapse in judgement and made the decision to shoot something that he did not know what it was causing the death of another.  That's the most logical explaination.
How is it logical to make the assumption that the victim 





> was trying to sneak up on what he thought was poachers, [and] was on his hands and knees going through brushy areas


.  You have not read this information in any news story anywhere.  If you have please post the story or a linc to the story.  It is not logical to come to a conclusion about what happened based on several assumptions.



> Im not placing blame with the hunters ...


Who would be at fault then?  If a hunter misidentified your wife, child, friend, relative, as an animal and killed them you would immedialely place blame on the shooter.  You would never even think, I wonder what my, wife, child, friend, relative, was doing to make this person shoot them?

EF


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## fuel-injected (Mar 13, 2010)

We all make mistakes in life, as this Hale fellow did. Some with the vehicle we were driving,or something we did on a job-sight, we all make mistakes. Some of the choices we make carry a very high price that has to be carried on our shoulders for the rest of our lives. I know alot of people, including myself, who could have taken the life of someone ,only by the quick thinking of somebody or the grace of God did it not! My prayers are with every person involved in this tragedy. Remember we all mistakes even LEOs! I'm not saying this was at all his fault, but if he was out there to catch poachers or someone and their "pot-patch" he should not have been alone. This may not have changed anything,but you never know. Another officer with him could of had a different idea,more experience maybe? The way some of you talk these LEOs make no mistakes,I can assure you they are human and can and do make mistakes!                                                                            F I


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## KMAS626 (Mar 13, 2010)

Throwback said:


> So if you are sitting in a tree stand, and I come along and think you're a turkey and blast you out of the tree, it is as much your fault as mine because you didn't holler or "do something to show me you were a human being not an animal" before I shot you?
> 
> Or, let's say it's fall of the year and you're fishing along the stream in north ga. I come along and think you're a deer, and shoot you. If you don't do "something to show he was a human being and not an animal" it's not really my fault.
> 
> ...



There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on an unsuspecting person or a couple of boy scouts walks up on someone hunting. There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on someone or a person walks up unknowingly on a person hunting. For one, dont think those boyscouts are going to be out and about in the woods at 11 oclock at night and two, the officer was knowingly walking towards a person shooting a gun in the dark. You can go ahead and walk up to those people all you want with out announcing yourself, go for it.  But if i am knowingly walking towards someone that is shooting a high powered rifle, im gonna make sure that those people know exactly where i am and exactly what i am. Just sayin..... Oh and i hope you really dont do your turkey hunting like that....if so, that very sad on your part. But you sound like a person that would shoot them right off the roost....


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 13, 2010)

KMAS626 said:


> There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on an unsuspecting person or a couple of boy scouts walks up on someone hunting. There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on someone or a person walks up unknowingly on a person hunting. For one, dont think those boyscouts are going to be out and about in the woods at 11 oclock at night and two, the officer was knowingly walking towards a person shooting a gun in the dark. You can go ahead and walk up to those people all you want with out announcing yourself, go for it.  But if i am knowingly walking towards someone that is shooting a high powered rifle, im gonna make sure that those people know exactly where i am and exactly what i am. Just sayin..... Oh and i hope you really dont do your turkey hunting like that....if so, that very sad on your part. But you sound like a person that would shoot them right off the roost....



I see from your profile that you are a student.

That's good 'cause you've got a lot to learn.


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## Throwback (Mar 13, 2010)

KMAS626 said:


> There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on an unsuspecting person or a couple of boy scouts walks up on someone hunting. There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on someone or a person walks up unknowingly on a person hunting. For one, dont think those boyscouts are going to be out and about in the woods at 11 oclock at night and two, the officer was knowingly walking towards a person shooting a gun in the dark. You can go ahead and walk up to those people all you want with out announcing yourself, go for it.  But if i am knowingly walking towards someone that is shooting a high powered rifle, im gonna make sure that those people know exactly where i am and exactly what i am. Just sayin..... Oh and i hope you really dont do your turkey hunting like that....if so, that very sad on your part. But you sound like a person that would shoot them right off the roost....



I mean....what else can be said. 


T


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## turky93 (Mar 13, 2010)

KMAS626 said:


> There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on an unsuspecting person or a couple of boy scouts walks up on someone hunting. There is a big difference when the person hunting walks up on someone or a person walks up unknowingly on a person hunting. For one, dont think those boyscouts are going to be out and about in the woods at 11 oclock at night and two, the officer was knowingly walking towards a person shooting a gun in the dark. You can go ahead and walk up to those people all you want with out announcing yourself, go for it.  But if i am knowingly walking towards someone that is shooting a high powered rifle, im gonna make sure that those people know exactly where i am and exactly what i am. Just sayin..... Oh and i hope you really dont do your turkey hunting like that....if so, that very sad on your part. But you sound like a person that would shoot them right off the roost....



No, there is NOT a difference. 
It doesn't matter if you are knowingly walking up on a hunter or not, the hunter has the sole responsiblity of identifying you as a non-target before he makes the decision to shoot. 
Obviously, the shooter in this situation failed to do that.
You or I would likely want to announce ourselves with flashlights, but then again, we aren't forest service officers.


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## KMAS626 (Mar 13, 2010)

turky93 said:


> No, there is NOT a difference.
> It doesn't matter if you are knowingly walking up on a hunter or not, the hunter has the sole responsiblity of identifying you as a non-target before he makes the decision to shoot.
> Obviously, the shooter in this situation failed to do that.
> You or I would likely want to announce ourselves with flashlights, but then again, we aren't forest service officers.



Dont get me wrong.....yeah the hunter failed to do that and he is at fault but i just cant place the full blame on the hunter in that type of situation. They both had things they should have done to prevent the situation and neither one of them did em.....  so that was the end result...


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## 1devildog (Mar 13, 2010)

EEFowl said:


> You are incorrect!  The most logical explaination is the shooter had serious lapse in judgement and made the decision to shoot something that he did not know what it was causing the death of another.  That's the most logical explaination.
> How is it logical to make the assumption that the victim .  You have not read this information in any news story anywhere.  If you have please post the story or a linc to the story.  It is not logical to come to a conclusion about what happened based on several assumptions.
> 
> 
> ...




If your not a progressive news reporter, you need to become one, you take words out of context well!. First off, I said that I am going to wait until the investigation was finished until I placed blame, "I think it would be best to just wait and see what the investigation reveals. Im not placing blame with the hunters or the LEO." Second, as I stated, "I have had the chance to go out in the past with a friend that was a game wardon,  I can say, they do take some extream measures to bust people.", I have crawled through fire breaks to get into position to observe people that were thought to be breaking the law. Third, I said IF, that is what he was doing could have led to him being shot, not that is what he was doing!, "If he was trying to sneak up on what he thought was poachers, if he was on his hands and knees going through brushy areas and they caught his eyes at the right angle, they could have easily mistaken him for a coyote." The last statement you took out of context, "Im not placing blame with the hunters ..." , I wrote, "Im not placing blame with the hunters or the LEO, but, accidents happen." which is why Im waiting to here the results of the investigation.

Who would be at fault then? If a hunter misidentified your wife, child, friend, relative, as an animal and killed them you would immedialely place blame on the shooter. You would never even think, I wonder what my, wife, child, friend, relative, was doing to make this person shoot them?

This, I wouldnt know the answer until it took place, I would like to think I could keep a level head about it, but, I cant say I could. This incident is the same as any loss of life due to an accident, take the firearm out and put in a vehicle, if the two guys were driving down the road, had a momentary laspe of judgment and didnt notice the light changing and T-boned the other guy and killed him, would you be as harsh on them then?
Like I said in my original post, I will wait until the investigation is done befor I make up my mind, I do know, if it was an accident, the guy that did pull the trigger is probably going through HE#L right now in his mind.


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## Turk (Mar 13, 2010)

Back in the '70's a GW was shot by night hunters in Stewart County. He was standing beside his truck, hidden in the woods on the opposite side of the road from the field he thought they would be shining. They shined a spotlight towards his truck and caught a reflection. He did everything he could to minimize the danger while still doing his job. He caught a load of buckshot, but luckily survived. I guess according to some of you he should have had his four ways or blue lights on so they'd know he wasn't a deer. LEOs in general take risks inherent to the jobs they do everyday (that's why they're paid so well). They accept these risks and do what they can do keep them to a minimum. That being said until the inv. is complete conjecture and opinions are just that, but I believe there will be a serious drop in the crow population when all is said and done.


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## SFStephens (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow.....glad I wore my waders because its getting deep in here.  It's absolutely amazing how many people are willing to lay the blame at the dead LEO's feet.  Accident or no accident, at the very least this is an involuntary manslaughter case.  The man clearly made a conscious decision to look through a scope and pull the trigger, obviously without really knowing what he was shooting at.  I don't believe he meant to kill the Officer, but due to his negligence, that was the outcome.  He will have to live with it the rest of his life, and he will probably suffer civil and criminal recourse as well.  Do I feel bad for him?  No.  I feel bad for the family that is now without their loved one due to the negligence of another.

What's also amazing is the folks that think it would be a good idea for him to come waltzing through the woods toting a flashlight and yelling out that he's a federal officer while approaching individuals that may be breaking the law, wether it be poaching or maybe growing a large marijuana crop.  Tactically, that is absolutely insane.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 13, 2010)

SFStephens said:


> Wow.....glad I wore my waders because its getting deep in here.  It's absolutely amazing how many people are willing to lay the blame at the dead LEO's feet.  Accident or no accident, at the very least this is an involuntary manslaughter case.  The man clearly made a conscious decision to look through a scope and pull the trigger, obviously without really knowing what he was shooting at.  I don't believe he meant to kill the Officer, but due to his negligence, that was the outcome.  He will have to live with it the rest of his life, and he will probably suffer civil and criminal recourse as well.  Do I feel bad for him?  No.  I feel bad for the family that is now without their loved one due to the negligence of another.
> 
> What's also amazing is the folks that think it would be a good idea for him to come waltzing through the woods toting a flashlight and yelling out that he's a federal officer while approaching individuals that may be breaking the law, wether it be poaching or maybe growing a large marijuana crop.  Tactically, that is absolutely insane.



Very well said! it's sad  how many people put the blame on any LEO in a situation like that. If I am working and get shot, I guess I should not have been trying to do my job! oh well


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## KMAS626 (Mar 13, 2010)

People are stupid. That is just how this world is. That was a stupid rediculous thing that the hunter did. Always identify your target no matter what.....Im just saying that i think LEOs and all other law enforcement officers should take some precautions, for thier own safety. It is a dangerous job and i commend every law enforcement officer for their dedication and laying thier life on the line. Anytime any accidents like this happens, it just sickens me. I just see the precautions that both parties should have taken to keep themselves and others safe.


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## EEFowl (Mar 13, 2010)

> would you be as harsh on them then?



It was the shooters responsibility to identify his target before making the decision to shoot.  It was not the victim's responsibility to identify himself as NOT being a target for the hunters to shoot.  *It's just that simple.*
Although I guess I am being "harsh" on the shooters, I am more so being harsh on the persons on this board who REFUSE to place blame on the shooters, or who put partial blame on the victim for getting shot.  I do not, as most here, believe that they shot him on purpose, but the hunters are responsible for this incident not the victim.

EF


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## 1devildog (Mar 13, 2010)

EEFowl said:


> It was the shooters responsibility to identify his target before making the decision to shoot.  It was not the victim's responsibility to identify himself as NOT being a target for the hunters to shoot.  *It's just that simple.*
> Although I guess I am being "harsh" on the shooters, I am more so being harsh on the persons on this board who REFUSE to place blame on the shooters, or who put partial blame on the victim for getting shot.  I do not, as most here, believe that they shot him on purpose, but the hunters are responsible for this incident not the victim.
> 
> EF



I agrea, they should have identified their target instead of shooting at eyes, I am also saying the LEO should have used better judgement than to go head on into that situation, if that is in fact what happened!. My post was to the ones out there, that havent a clue about hunting at night, how to tell the difference between a deer, a cow, a coyote or a person, the fact that a predators eyes face forward, man included, and under the right lighting will shine just like an animal. This was to the people that have already convicted these guys as outright killers, the ones that cant figure out a man could be mistaken for a animal under these circumstances. I condone their actions NONE!, but, if that is how it went down, it was a very unfortunate accident where all parties will suffer. I can also give good reasons as to why the shooter will suffer if it was in fact nothing more than a horible accident!, it almost happened to me, one of my best hunting spots until that day, havent been back there since!. To make a long story short, I was hunting my stand on private property, had a big doe come out of the heavy brush, got her in my crosshairs, slipped off the safety and started the squeeze, for some reason, maybe because rut was fixing to start, maybe for some other reason, I watched her for a second, she reacted to something, I eased off the trigger and continued to watch, she flagged and took off, still watching through the scope, the next thing that appered in my scope was a blaze orange vest, crosshairs centered in a tresspassers chest, I can say, he wasnt there befor the doe, but he was the reason she took off!. Now, if I had taken the shot, there was a very good chance that the .300WM would of cleared her and continued to him, would have been a pure accident, but that still did nothing to calm my nerves, I almost gave up hunting, I did give up that area, I can say, thank GOD I waited. That is the reason I say, we need to wait for the investigation to be finished befor we condem anyone!.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 13, 2010)

SFStephens said:


> Accident or no accident, at the very least this is an involuntary manslaughter case.
> 
> Do I feel bad for him?  No.



I don't think anyone here would disagree that it would be involuntary manslaughter.  Problem is, most seem to want to string the shooter up and hang him for malice murder.

Oh...and you should feel for the shooter...no one should wish something like this on another person.


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## HandgunHTR (Mar 14, 2010)

Ya'll need to keep it civil.

That is all I am going to say.


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## bubbabuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Dutch said:


> I bet you a dollar that the "hunters" were protecting thier pot patch.
> 
> Alot of illegal pot growing goes on in ONF....I grew up in Jones county and have hunted the ONF for 25 years...have found a few patches myself through the years....they are using the "coyote hunting" excuse as a cover story.
> 
> Time will tell.





I'll take some of that action, but lets make it more worth while than a dollar my friend !!
I do know Clint and you are very wrong!....You nor I or any others on this forum know all the details.....I have known Clint as a builder and a salesman and more important as a family man !....He has hunted that same area the same way many times.....What I do know is he made a terrible terrible mistake and he will live with it the rest of his life....as will his wife and kids.....to say he is devastated is an understatement!!...and he well knows his devastation does not compare to that of the Rangers family!!!!!
I am blown away at some of the chest thumping judging thats going on by some LONG time members that have LONG professed to be good Christians !
I hope that yall never make a mistake thats hurts someone or God forbid takes a life, because according to some on here all the good you have done in your life will be forgotten and you should be strapped in the chair !

I pray for the Rangers wife and child and I pray for Clints wife and childern just as hard !


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## LEON MANLEY (Mar 14, 2010)

bubbabuck said:


> I'll take some of that action, but lets make it more worth while than a dollar my friend !!
> I do know Clint and you are very wrong!....You nor I or any others on this forum know all the details.....I have known Clint as a builder and a salesman and more important as a family man !....He has hunted that same area the same way many times.....What I do know is he made a terrible terrible mistake and he will live with it the rest of his life....as will his wife and kids.....to say he is devastated is an understatement!!...and he well knows his devastation does not compare to that of the Rangers family!!!!!
> I am blown away at some of the chest thumping judging thats going on by some LONG time members that have LONG professed to be good Christians !
> I hope that yall never make a mistake thats hurts someone or God forbid takes a life, because according to some on here all the good you have done in your life will be forgotten and you should be strapped in the chair !
> ...



Are you saying that he was reckless in shooting shiny objects the many times he has hunted this area? How many animals that were not coyotes (bobcats,fox,coons opossums, owls, deer, dogs, cats, cows, horses, or goats)  met their demise due to this style of shooting?


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## bubbabuck (Mar 14, 2010)

LEON MANLEY said:


> Are you saying that he was reckless in shooting shiny objects the many times he has hunted this area? How many animals that were not coyotes (bobcats,fox,coons opossums, owls, deer, dogs, cats, cows, horses, or goats)  met their demise due to this style of shooting?




Yes Sir!!....I to wondered the same thing when I heard the story ??...Lots of options besides a yote those reflections could of been.........Please read my next sentence after that ......it was very much a terrible mistake and he knows it far more than you and I !!!





sorry...misread and had to edit!


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## EEFowl (Mar 14, 2010)

> the chest thumping judging thats going on by some



bubbabuck,
I think you are interpreting some of this wrong.  I am appauled at the number of persons here who are placing some blame on the victim for getting shot, or refusing to place all the blame on the shooter for shooting him.  No one who shifts blame can offer an explaination based on sound facts or logic as to why the victim was partially responsible for the incident.  All they can do is just make up facts to suit their position like, he must have been doing....., he should have ID'd......., he wasn't wearing......., why was he even......,  he was sneaking......, he should have heard the,....., you can hunt coyotes .....,.  
I don't think anyone here believes that the shooter shot the GW on purpose but that does not excuse the action.
I think most of the "chest thumping" as you put it is directed at the posters who are not assigning blame solely to the shooter.

EF


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## HandgunHTR (Mar 14, 2010)

For those wondering where the "sneaking around" comments are coming from, here is a link to the article.

Read the 5th paragraph.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest...game-officer-under-investigation?v=1268054732


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## Throwback (Mar 14, 2010)

*Pictures from the memorial service*

Him and his daughter






Family arriving










Memorial flag





His family






more here 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/UptonPhotoGallery.php


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## bubbabuck (Mar 15, 2010)

EEFowl said:


> bubbabuck,
> I think you are interpreting some of this wrong.  I am appauled at the number of persons here who are placing some blame on the victim for getting shot, or refusing to place all the blame on the shooter for shooting him.  No one who shifts blame can offer an explaination based on sound facts or logic as to why the victim was partially responsible for the incident.  All they can do is just make up facts to suit their position like, he must have been doing....., he should have ID'd......., he wasn't wearing......., why was he even......,  he was sneaking......, he should have heard the,....., you can hunt coyotes .....,.
> I don't think anyone here believes that the shooter shot the GW on purpose but that does not excuse the action.
> I think most of the "chest thumping" as you put it is directed at the posters who are not assigning blame solely to the shooter.
> ...




EF, I do agree!.....However if you read every post on the board on this subject, there post calling it murder.....maybe because they were hunting deer...maybe because they were growing some dope....meth lab....and who knows what other conspiracy(sp) they can come up with!
This was a very sad tragic and terrible mistake by a guy that has hunted all his life and guys that have hunted with him hundreds of times will tell you he is safe ...I'm sure no one wishes he could have that trigger pull back more than him....

I firmly believe there is NO excuse for not completely 100% identifying your target.....If I walk thru the woods with antlers strapped to my head and a deer cape around my neck....I still dont look like a deer......an idiot , but not a deer !!!

Very...Very...Sad !!.....Prayers for the families !


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## Throwback (Nov 20, 2011)

so much for the  "wallowing around on the ground in the woods like a coyote" theory. 

http://www.fbi.gov/atlanta/press-releases/2011/hunter-admits-to-killing-forest-service-officer


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## Throwback (Nov 20, 2011)

interactive map on the bottom of the page of the parking lot, complete with bathrooms, where this happened

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...mulgee+Bluff+Horse+Bike+and+Hike+Trail+System


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## SgtPat (Nov 21, 2011)

bubbabuck said:


> EF, I do agree!.....However if you read every post on the board on this subject, there post calling it murder.....maybe because they were hunting deer...maybe because they were growing some dope....meth lab....and who knows what other conspiracy(sp) they can come up with!
> This was a very sad tragic and terrible mistake by a guy that has hunted all his life and guys that have hunted with him hundreds of times will tell you he is safe ...I'm sure no one wishes he could have that trigger pull back more than him....
> 
> I firmly believe there is NO excuse for not completely 100% identifying your target.....If I walk thru the woods with antlers strapped to my head and a deer cape around my neck....I still dont look like a deer......an idiot , but not a deer !!!
> ...



You should feel an idiot now.


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## cowhornedspike (Nov 21, 2011)

Throwback said:


> so much for the  "wallowing around on the ground in the woods like a coyote" theory.
> 
> http://www.fbi.gov/atlanta/press-releases/2011/hunter-admits-to-killing-forest-service-officer



Tragic and without excuse for sure BUT nothing in that story describes the manner in which the surveillance was being conducted so I'm not sure where you are coming from here.


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## Redbow (Nov 21, 2011)

Yeah if the man was doing his job and he possibly thought poachers might be about what does a LEO do, announce he is coming to arrest someone? I don't think so. But then only a fool shoots without identifying his target IMO ! I was taught that from day one and I started hunting with a .22 rifle at a very early age. I guess the dead man must have been down on all fours with a fuzzy tail pinned onto his backside !


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## LIB MR ducks (Nov 21, 2011)

bubbabuck said:


> I'll take some of that action, but lets make it more worth while than a dollar my friend !!
> I do know Clint and you are very wrong!....You nor I or any others on this forum know all the details.....I have known Clint as a builder and a salesman and more important as a family man !....He has hunted that same area the same way many times.....What I do know is he made a terrible terrible mistake and he will live with it the rest of his life....as will his wife and kids.....to say he is devastated is an understatement!!...and he well knows his devastation does not compare to that of the Rangers family!!!!!
> I am blown away at some of the chest thumping judging thats going on by some LONG time members that have LONG professed to be good Christians !
> I hope that yall never make a mistake thats hurts someone or God forbid takes a life, because according to some on here all the good you have done in your life will be forgotten and you should be strapped in the chair !
> ...



So Bubbabuck was the fact they waited an hour to call for help a terrible mistake too??? I hope he gets the maximum sentence. No excuse period.


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## Throwback (Mar 25, 2012)

He was sentenced. Anyone that still thinks he called 911 "immediately" needs to read this. 

you shuold also read the sworn testimony of the others there where he didn't shoot at what they saw because they didn't know what it was. 

http://www.macon.com/2012/03/20/195...l-officer.html#storylink=omni_popular#wgt=pop


T


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## Miguel Cervantes (Mar 25, 2012)

Throwback said:


> He was sentenced. Anyone that still thinks he called 911 "immediately" needs to read this.
> 
> you shuold also read the sworn testimony of the others there where he didn't shoot at what they saw because they didn't know what it was.
> 
> ...


Looks like they went way to light on him to me. Should have been 30 years with eligibility for parole in 7.


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## Throwback (Mar 26, 2012)




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## Jake Allen (Mar 26, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Looks like they went way to light on him to me. Should have been 30 years with eligibility for parole in 7.



I agree. Way to light on the time to serve.


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## LEON MANLEY (Mar 29, 2012)

Wow, I wonder who his Attorney was?
 That was one heck of a plea bargain.

 He should have gotten way more than that if it had killed the ranger immediately, much less just ignore the man struggling to maintain life.


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