# Paper Cartridges?



## rubicon_in_ga (Oct 10, 2009)

Anybody make Civil War type paper cartridges for their traditional black powder rifles?  I picked up a Traditions Springfield Hawken .50cal this week and I absolutely love shooting it!  For hunting, I think it'd be more convenient to take a few paper cartridges, than carry a flask, measure, roundballs and patches separately.  The way I see it, it's still old school, (as opposed to modern plastic tube speed loaders), and would help lighten the load at the same time. 

I've watched alot of youtube videos on how to make the cartridges, and I'm fairly confident I can do it. I haven't heard of many people using them other than Civil War reenactors, but  I figure that's because of the time and effort required in putting them together, not due to any ineffectiveness.  

I guess my first question would be, does bore lube come into play with paper cartridges?  I've read several sets of instructions, including some from a Civil War Ordinance manual, and I don't recall seeing any mention of lube.  I can only assume the paper would contribute to barrel fouling, so at the least, it'd need to be swabbed every few shots.

Next, are there any drawbacks to using paper cartridges?  Other than a more thorough cleaning after every session, would they in any way shorten the lifespan of the gun or it's usefulness? 

I think accuracy might suffer after a few shots, but would a paper cartridge be less accurate than a traditional powder/patch/ball load?  Since my Hawken only has iron sights, most of my hunting shots would be between 50-100 yards, so tack driving accuracy isn't a must, I just wanna hit what I'm aiming at. 

Any other advice or directions ya'll could give would be great!

Thanks!

Jeremy


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## tv_racin_fan (Oct 10, 2009)

Rubicon, I have never tried the paper cartridge route. I see no reason it wouldn't work just fine. I suggest you try it out and see how it works out for you. In fact I was thinking about doing the same thing with my flintlock.


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## acmech (Oct 10, 2009)

I believe with paper cartridges, the minnie ball is lubed prior to putting it into the cartridge.  Since your muzzle loader will use a patched round ball or Maxi ball, it may or may not work well.  You obviously won't get good results with a patched round ball, but if you lube up a maxi ball or something like it when you put it in the cartridge, it may have enough lube on it to benefit you when loading and shooting.  I'm not positive about this, but I see no reason lube can't be applied before loading it into the cartridge.  Original military BP lubes were tallow and beeswax, so if applied to the bullet first, it would hurt the cartridge at all.  
 Now for more fun, I've made combustable cartridges for my cap and ball pistols that worked great and made reloading fast!  Works best on the Remington New Army type pistol.


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## rubicon_in_ga (Oct 12, 2009)

Well the only thing I've read as a negative for lubing the bullet or ball before putting them in the cartridge, is that depending on the type of lube, it can soak into the paper, essentially turning the cartridge to a mush, and it could also soak into the powder itself, potentially causing a misfire or hangfire.  I'm gonna keep reading up on the subject and see what I can find out.  Maybe I'll try going both routes and see what gives the best results.


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## pacecars (Oct 12, 2009)

I can't tell you about rifles but I did make some for my 1860 pistols to help speed up loading for cowboy action shooting. I used regular cigarette paper and they worked very well. I never had a misfire with them. Most of the paper burns up but occaisionally I would have some unburnt paper left in the chamber that I would have to remove with a toothpick. I did not use any lube on the round ball with the pistols but if you were using a minie it would probably be a good idea.


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## Cknerr (Oct 14, 2009)

back in the 80's I tried making paper "cartridges". No you- tube back then so had to figure it out myself. It does work. Found a heavier weight paper survived longer in my leather "cartridge bag". Also found using bee's wax only on the ball gave me a few week a before the paper soaked up some of the oil and the cartridge end would come apart. Used heated corn starch as a glue to begin with - it sure is not water/humidity proof! Shellac is and won't hurt anything in your rifle. You can also safely ingest some if you use your teeth to open the cartridge. 

During the civil war the paper from the cartridge was used as a patch. In some of the fancier BP match shooting, rice paper is used as a patch. Supper thin stuff but it does magic.

Hope this helps,
Chris


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## rubicon_in_ga (Oct 14, 2009)

Hey thanks for the info guys!  From what I've read, newsprint paper is best for rifle cartridges (not actual newspaper, but the pads of writing/drawing paper you get at art supply stores) and king size cigarette papers work best for .44 cal pistol cartridges.  I'm gonna pick some of both up this weekend and try my hand.  For the rifle cartridges, I think I'm gonna make like five lubed ball and five un-lubed cartridges for starters, and see which loads best and is most accurate.  Thanks again guys!


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## rubicon_in_ga (Oct 16, 2009)

Well I made up several .44cal paper cartridges tonight and shot them from my dad's 1851 Colt Navy replica!  Talk about fun!    I used JOB 1.5 size (gold package) cigarette papers with a 25 grain load.  Didn't even have to pierce the paper or anything, just capped the nipples and BOOM!    So then I followed some other directions for making .50 cal cartridges using newsprint paper, 75grain loads and a modified version of a civil war method of constructing the cartridges.  Well the paper was so thick, it didn't like being loaded without tearing off the end and dumping in the powder first (which is the traditional loading method anyway), and the ball needed more than a little umph to get it rammed in the barrel, but once it was in, the first one didn't fire with the first cap, second cap it went boom right away.  Second cartridge I dumped the powder in, ramming was a little easier, and it went BOOM on the first cap.  It did hang momentarily before it shot, but it was so quick it was barely noticeable.  The sparks from the burning paper coming out of the barrel was amazing!   I think it'd be really cool to fire off some blanks at night.   I'm gonna research and try to find the right size cigarette rolling paper for the .50 cal and try again ramming the entire cartridge without having to tear the end off.  I think some king size or some double wides might work, but I've gotta run some size numbers.  Might limit the powder charge because of the dimensions though. :-(   But all in all, once I got the hang of making them, it went pretty quick! Lots of fun!


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## ABBYS DAD (Oct 20, 2009)

Lard was used as the first lube. They are fairly easy to roll. You just need a wooden dowel and cut your paper patterns from copy paper. I posted on here recently that I have a box full of rolled cartridges without lead. I reenacted for a long time and had a bunch left over. I've rolled thousands of them. Let me know if youre interested in them.


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## KLR650 (Oct 23, 2009)

Here is an interesting read on the subject. I was going to try it but bent my knee the wrong way and seperated my ACL the first week of bow season and have not been in the shop since to do anything. 

TAPERED PAPER CARTRIGE TEST


HTH


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## tv_racin_fan (Oct 23, 2009)

OUCH nitrated papers at Dixie are EXPENSIVE!!!

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...=8218&osCsid=72075d5d8b5d7688de82d6a53a947769


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## KLR650 (Nov 11, 2009)

Not sure first hand but I rember reading somewhere that regular old rolling paper is nitrated paper and the brand was Tops.


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## acmech (Nov 11, 2009)

KLR650 said:


> Not sure first hand but I rember reading somewhere that regular old rolling paper is nitrated paper and the brand was Tops.



No its not.  It if you light nitrated paper, you can watch it burn like a fuse, rolling paper doesn't do that.  It is easy to make your own nitrated paper though.  Get some of the large tissue type paper from walmart where they sell the gift bags, your wife or girl friends may even save the stuff.  You'll need some Salt Peter otherwise known as Potassium nitrate.  Dissolve 2-3 table spoons of it into a quart of warm water and put it into a spray bottle.  Take one sheet of the tissue (gift bag) paper and lay it on a cookie sheet and set the sheet up at a 45 degree angle.  Now spray the sheet all over making it wet, and let it dry.  When its dry you can cut it into the sizes you need.   There are paper cartridges, and there are self consuming paper cartridges, thats what you have when you add potassium nitrate.  If you use just regular paper, you have to worry more about unburned smoldering paper lingering in your cylinder when you drop in the next round.  I assemble the cartridges using a craft type glue stick.  Form the paper around a mandrel that is shaped to hold the charge you want, put a little bit of glue on it, to hold it together, fill the cartridge with your charge, and put a little bit of glue on your ball and drop it in and press the paper on it.  Works great but time consuming.  There are several different videos on youtube, some guys aren't using the potassium nitrate.


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