# 20 gauge Nitros vs. Super Dense handloads: pattern and penetration test results



## hawglips (Jul 27, 2008)

I went out today to pattern / penetration test my first batch of 20 gauge 1-5/16 oz. handloads of 18g/cc super dense shot.  And I tested them against Nitros 1-7/16 oz. (actually heavier) #7s.

I shot them all through a Remington 870, with a Pure Gold .555 choke.

Since I knew from previous tests (thanks to MKW) that the best pattern with the Nitros 7s was to be had through the Pure Gold .555, I wanted to test my handloads against what I knew was the best 20 gauge pattern on the planet (arguably).

In addition to shooting paper, I also wanted to have some sort of penetration test competition as well.  So, I got some old steel/tin roofing that appeared thick enough to make it difficult for a pellet to pass through, and used that to test the penetration.

I tested the shells at a measured 40 yards.

Here's the results:

PENETRATION:  
The *Nitros 7s * passed through the sheet metal at the rate of 5 - 10%.  
My handloads in *9s* passed through the sheet metal at the rate of 90 - 95%.
My handloads in *8s* passed through the sheet metal at the rate of 95 - 100%.
The *7s* appeared to pass through at the rate of 100%.
(I also got to pattern some 12 gauge loads, my handloads vs. *Nitros 2x5x7*.  The 2s made large gouging holes through the metal, but the 5s and 7s didn't seem to pass through at all.   The 12 gauge hand loads seemed to pass through about the same rate as the 20 gauge loads.)

In summary, the super dense 18g/cc loads blew Nitros away in the penetration test.

20 GAUGE PATTERNS 
Remington 870, 26" barrel, Pure Gold .555
(10" circle at 40 yards):

Nitros #7s: 211







Handloads #9s: *223* and 198 (The 198 shell was a different recipe - no picture taken.)






Handloads #9x8s: *272*






Handloads #9x7: 167 (No picture.  I surmise that the #7s might do better through a more open choke?)


I also wanted to test some of my 12 gauge loads through a buddy's Browning Gold, since up to this point, my Mossberg 500 is the only gun on the planet that has shot the 12 gauge loads.

Here are the results of the 12 gauge tests vs. Nitros 2x5x7 (40 yards, 10" circle):

Nitros 2x5x7 (Brown. Gold, Rhino 670): 208 and 136





Handloads #8s: (Brown. Gold, Carlson 680):*258*





Handloads 9x8x7s (Brown. Gold, Carlson 680): *265*





Handloads 9x8x7s (Brown. Gold, Rhino 670): 195

And just to see if they were still shooting very well out of my Mossberg, I shot one through it for good measure.

Handloads #8s (Mossberg 500, Wrights 675):*293* 





So, in summary, the 20 gauge 1-5/16 oz. loads pattern as good or better than Nitros, and are as hellacious as the 12 gauge loads.  

P.S.  The 20 gauge handloads are a 2-3/4" shell.  The reason for this is that the wad column I have to use fits inside with 1-5/16 oz. of super dense shot perfectly.


----------



## CL3 (Jul 27, 2008)

IMPRESSIVE!!!  I may never shoot a 12/ga. again!!


----------



## gblrklr (Jul 27, 2008)

The penetration results are very impressive!  However, I'm not sure I would be real excited about 208 pellets in a Nitro pattern.  Ihave attached the last pattern that I measured with my Beretta Xtrema, Rhino .660, and Nitro 4x5x7's, the I counted 332.  

I'm definitely interested to see more results from your testing.  Good job!


----------



## hawglips (Jul 27, 2008)

gblrklr said:


> The penetration results are very impressive!  However, I'm not sure I would be real excited about 208 pellets in a Nitro pattern.  Ihave attached the last pattern that I measured with my Beretta Xtrema, Rhino .660, and Nitro 4x5x7's, the I counted 332.
> 
> I'm definitely interested to see more results from your testing.  Good job!



332 in a 10" circle is impressive.  But keep in mind we're talking about "mere" hevishot there.  

I really do not plan on doing any more testing.  I've seen enough to know that I would be taking a big step down to shoot Nitros of any shot size, in my 20 or my 12.  

I truly consider Nitros obsolete, until Nitro Ray starts loading up some super dense shot.  I hope he starts soon.  He'll figure up something that is off the charts I'm sure.


----------



## gblrklr (Jul 27, 2008)

I asked Sandy about loading the SS and she said that there was some concern with it scoring barrels?  Have you seen any evidence of it?  I am always looking for something better and would buy loaded shells in a heartbeat if it patterned better and didn't damage my gun.


----------



## hawglips (Jul 27, 2008)

It will score the barrels unless you make sure there is adequate protection.  I have seen no evidence of any barrel scoring on my guns.

But I have taken extra precaution with my loads...


----------



## Gadget (Jul 27, 2008)

Impressive work Hal, good info there.


I think barrel scoring is one of the reasons you don't see any loads with the super heavy tungsten, that and price. Did you find a better source? What is the cost difference to hand load 12gc hevi vs 18?

Do you have any pics from the penetration test?


----------



## hawglips (Jul 28, 2008)

I think I've found a better source, as far as price is concerned.  Hevishot is about 1/2 the cost of the best priced 18 I've seen.

I didn't take pics of the penetration because I forgot the camera and left the shot up sheet metal at the place we patterned it.

All a manufacturer needs to do is get creative with the wad column and buffer, and they will find that barrel scoring isn't something to worry too much about, IMO.


----------



## gblrklr (Jul 28, 2008)

If I am not mistaken, wasn't barrel scoring a concern with hevi shot in the beginning too?


----------



## Gadget (Jul 28, 2008)

gblrklr said:


> If I am not mistaken, wasn't barrel scoring a concern with hevi shot in the beginning too?





Yep, sure was.


----------



## hawglips (Jul 28, 2008)

Barrel scoring is not a problem with this stuff, as long as you protect against it.

Rick, since I don't have pictures of the sheet metal penetration test, here's what I did.

I took the sheet metal and propped it up behind the paper target, so that we'd get enough hits to get a meaningful look at what the pellets did to the metal.

I first shot the 20 gauge Nitros 7s.  Fifty to sixty pellets actually hit the sheet metal, and 3 pellets passed through it, the rest making dents in it and bouncing off, and a few pellets getting stuck in the metal.

Then I shot a 20 gauge handload with straight #9s at a target with the same sheet metal propped up behind it.  Approximately 50 - 60 pellets hit the metal, and ALL but three pellets passed all the way through the sheet metal.   There was also an audible and visually different reaction to the #9s -- the pellets made much more noise hitting the sheet metal, and the sheet metal more violently lurched back upon impact.   This was readily noticeable to all who were looking on, not just me.

Then we shot the Nitros 2x5x7s and a few other handloads doing the same, and the differences in penetration were consistent every time.


----------



## Gadget (Jul 28, 2008)

hawglips said:


> Barrel scoring is not a problem with this stuff, as long as you protect against it.
> 
> Rick, since I don't have pictures of the sheet metal penetration test, here's what I did.
> 
> ...




Sounds convincing to me. So what do you think the equivalent would be to ST 9's versus, regular 12g hevi and lead?


----------



## hawglips (Jul 29, 2008)

TSS says its equivalent to lead 5 sizes larger.  Therefore, #9s would be like #4 lead in penetration power, according to them.

What I was scratching my head over, is that when we shot the Nitros 2x5x7 loads into the sheet metal, it didn't appear that anything but the #2s actually passed through the sheet metal.   I would have thought all or most of the #5s in the load would have passed through, but I couldn't find any that did.  But as we know, it would be hard determine since the sizes are so inconsistent in a typical Nitro triplex load.

I have also noticed that the #9s kicked #6s Hevi-13's butt in an earlier penetrtion test that you might recall on an earlier thread.

So, don't let the little number (9) scare you.  This is wicked stuff.


----------



## Gadget (Jul 29, 2008)

What's the smallest they make? 10's


----------



## hawglips (Jul 29, 2008)

I can get smaller than that, I think.  

I'd like to try to put together a 40 yard .410 load.  I figure #10s or #11s would get the job done.  (Equivalent to a #5 or #6 lead load).


----------



## Gadget (Jul 29, 2008)

hawglips said:


> I can get smaller than that, I think.
> 
> I'd like to try to put together a 40 yard .410 load.  I figure #10s or #11s would get the job done.  (Equivalent to a #5 or #6 lead load).





Work me up a custom 8x9 duplex 2.25 oz in 3.5" and I'll let her eat.......


----------



## hawglips (Jul 29, 2008)

You'll have to settle for 3" till somebody else starts loading them.  

I'd expect around 350 holes in the 10" circle and close to 600 in the 20" circle with that kind of load.  

And we ain't talking wimpy Hevishot holes, either.


----------



## Gadget (Jul 29, 2008)

hawglips said:


> You'll have to settle for 3" till somebody else starts loading them.
> 
> I'd expect around 350 holes in the 10" circle and close to 600 in the 20" circle with that kind of load.
> 
> And we ain't talking wimpy Hevishot holes, either.




What oz load can put in a 3" shell?  2?


----------



## gblrklr (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, maybe we should start looking for components for you.  I'm with gadget, load up some 3.5" shells and I will field test them for you.


----------



## hawglips (Jul 30, 2008)

Gadget said:


> What oz load can put in a 3" shell?  2?



One limiting factor is barrel protection.  I can fit 2.25 oz. in the shell with typical high capacity wads, but what I'm doing so far with the wad column to insure barrel protection won't work with that much shot.  You can't just pile it on top like Nitro Ray does with his soft hevishot.

I'd have to figure it out.

Plus, I'd be breaking new ground on workable chamber pressures and velocities with that much of a payload in a 3" shell.  And I'm no expert on that stuff.

Heck, the 1-7/8 oz. payload of this stuff is so much better than anything out there, that at some point you have to ask yourself how much is enough.


----------



## Gadget (Jul 30, 2008)

hawglips said:


> One limiting factor is barrel protection.  I can fit 2.25 oz. in the shell with typical high capacity wads, but what I'm doing so far with the wad column to insure barrel protection won't work with that much shot.  You can't just pile it on top like Nitro Ray does with his soft hevishot.
> 
> I'd have to figure it out.
> 
> ...




It's never enough when you have the fever...........



see what you can do, 2 oz maybe. Your loader doesn't do 3.5's?


----------



## hawglips (Jul 30, 2008)

gblrklr said:


> Well, maybe we should start looking for components for you.  I'm with gadget, load up some 3.5" shells and I will field test them for you.



If you shot the 3" 1-7/8 shells head to head against the 3.5" Nitros you're shooting now, you would throw your 3.5" shells away.

If I load any of these shells for anybody, I'd do it out of friendship and not for money.  I'm a nice guy, but it is expensive in time and $$ to put some together.   It takes me about two hours to load up 10 shells.  There's lots of tedious wad work, manual weighing, etc.   There's nothing in it for me but sharing what I've figured out with friends who appreciate and understand the physical qualities of this shot and how that translates into killing turkeys.  And that's OK with me.

Send me a PM if anybody wants to try some out in their gun.  I won't guarantee I'll get to it anytime soon, but I'll let you know what I can do. 

Mark my word.  It's just a matter of time before somebody starts commercializing turkey loads in this stuff, and it'll revolutionize turkey ammo just like Hevishot did, but to a greater extent.

And I'm going to work on a .410 shell.  It'll turn the .410 bore into a legitimate 40 yard turkey gun.


----------



## hawglips (Jul 30, 2008)

Gadget said:


> It's never enough when you have the fever...........
> 
> see what you can do, 2 oz maybe. Your loader doesn't do 3.5's?



I had a 2 oz. shell ready to go that I meant to test out last week, but I got so excited seeing how the 20 gauge shells performed that I totally forgot to shoot it.  

But yes, my loader is the limiting factor on the 3.5" length.


----------



## Gadget (Jul 30, 2008)

hawglips said:


> If you shot the 3" 1-7/8 shells head to head against the 3.5" Nitros you're shooting now, you would throw your 3.5" shells away.
> 
> If I load any of these shells for anybody, I'd do it out of friendship and not for money.  I'm a nice guy, but it is expensive in time and $$ to put some together.   It takes me about two hours to load up 10 shells.  There's lots of tedious wad work, manual weighing, etc.   There's nothing in it for me but sharing what I've figured out with friends who appreciate and understand the physical qualities of this shot and how that translates into killing turkeys.  And that's OK with me.
> 
> ...




Very interesting to me, i've been wanting to hand load for a few years now.

pm sent.


----------



## zksailfish (May 12, 2009)

I am a little confussed. Were you shooting at the red center but the gun was pattering high and not hitting the center?


----------



## short stop (May 12, 2009)

fish ...  this is an older thread  and  the    point   of the  thread isnt  accuracy  of the  gun    , but  a   a  load /  pattern   test  on paper and  penetration  sheet metal  test ..
  Hal can correct me if Im wrong,  but    its  a variety  of  mixed loads   compairing  Nitros  7    to  his     Handloads  of  8s , Handloads  of   9s   and  a combonation of the  two mixed    run thru the  same  choke/gun  ..
  ---So    diff loads  will  have    diff   poi   . 

 * depending on which load   was  choosen by  the shooter  a  simple   adjustment  of  sights  or barrel correction   would    take  care  of  any   shot  placement issues ..

  Might be an old thread  but as  an avid  20  ga freak   myself  , Id  stand in line  for some  Hals     T-98     20  ga  loads ... for   the  2010  season ..
 I go outa  my way to stockpile  prefered loads  to  use  all season   without the  worry  of  running outa  ammo ..


----------

