# Tim Minchin takes on Faith Healing



## MiGGeLLo (Oct 28, 2015)

I found this recently and figured you guys may enjoy it if you haven't seen it already.



If any apologists are interested, what is your take on faith healing? 

Edit: To clarify I don't just mean the religious leaders who claim to be able to heal people in the name of some god or another. I'm including folks who eschew modern medicine in favor of praying and being healed for their faith.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 28, 2015)

MiGGeLLo said:


> If any apologists are interested, what is your take on faith healing?



What I've seen is a complete joke, and the "healers" are charlatans.


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## MiGGeLLo (Oct 28, 2015)

centerpin fan said:


> What I've seen is a complete joke, and the "healers" are charlatans.



Yeah.. I thought James Randi had put this fool out of his misery, but it looks like he's back now:

http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/09/exposed-healer-popoff-is-back-to-take-your-money/


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

I believe there are moments when we are shown the body's power to heal itself. The placebo effect is real whether it is a sugar pill or prayer. The common denominator is faith.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> I believe there are moments when we are shown the body's power to heal itself. The placebo effect is real whether it is a sugar pill or prayer. The common denominator is faith.



Or delusion.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

What would be great is a time when we wouldn't have to trick ourselves with prayer or sugar pills; we could tap into that seemingly dormant part of our brain at will.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 28, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> What would be great is a time when we wouldn't have to trick ourselves with prayer or sugar pills; we could tap into that seemingly dormant part of our brain at will.




Some of us already have.  For a mere $14.99 (plus shipping and handling), you can read my thoughts on the subject.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

centerpin fan said:


> Some of us already have.  For a mere $14.99 (plus shipping and handling), you can read my thoughts on the subject.



What boggles my mind is your ability to find these clips and insert them relevantly into the conversation. Brillant!

I applaud you sir.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 28, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> What boggles my mind is your ability to find these clips and insert them relevantly into the conversation. Brillant!
> 
> I applaud you sir.




We all have our gifts.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 28, 2015)

MiGGeLLo said:


> I found this recently and figured you guys may enjoy it if you haven't seen it already.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo
> 
> ...


My take is to trust God in the matter of healing. I do not eschew modern medicine, but I also do not hold it in a higher position than prayer.

I only watched the video until the eye shadow appeared.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> My take is to trust God in the matter of healing. I do not eschew modern medicine, but I also do not hold it in a higher position than prayer.
> 
> I only watched the video until the eye shadow appeared.



The same thing crossed my mind.  How do you take anything a guy wearing eye liner says seriously?

I agree with him though.


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## MiGGeLLo (Oct 28, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> My take is to trust God in the matter of healing. I do not eschew modern medicine, but I also do not hold it in a higher position than prayer.
> 
> I only watched the video until the eye shadow appeared.



Dang, you missed out on all the fun then. I take it you aren't a big fan of theatre? 

I know there are more recent studies on the same that reached roughly the same conclusion but I couldn't find them at present, however this study from 2006 found either no impact or a slightly negative impact on recovery of patients who knew they were being prayed for, and no difference when a patient wasn't aware one way or another whether they were being prayed for:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&

We have a tendency as people toward confirmation bias, but it is my belief it exhibits itself even more strongly than usual when it comes to matters of faith and healing. How do you know that the power of prayer you perceive in your life isn't affected by confirmation bias? (I.e. you tend to remember when your prayers are 'answered' more than when they aren't).

Furthermore how do you do you determine whether or not a prayer has been answered? I know in the church I was raised in prayers were seen with 3 possible results (god answering the prayer, god saying no to the prayer ...after all he knows best... and most ambiguously, god will answer when the time is right).

The problem for me with this is that it sets up a system where no matter what happens, the prayer has been answered and a person can go on with their good christian refrain of 'God answers prayers! Hallelujah!.' But these options play out exactly the same way as they would if you prayed to Bruce Lee.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2015)

MiGGeLLo said:


> Dang, you missed out on all the fun then. I take it you aren't a big fan of theatre?
> 
> I know there are more recent studies on the same that reached roughly the same conclusion but I couldn't find them at present, however this study from 2006 found either no impact or a slightly negative impact on recovery of patients who knew they were being prayed for, and no difference when a patient wasn't aware one way or another whether they were being prayed for:
> 
> ...



The popular version of this around here is that God answers prayers by: "Yes, No or Wait" and yes, praying to Bruce Lee will yield the same results.


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## MiGGeLLo (Oct 28, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> The same thing crossed my mind.  How do you take anything a guy wearing eye liner says seriously?
> 
> I agree with him though.



Well he's a cheeky entertainer, he isn't really going for being taken seriously by and large other than for laughs. His messages on various things do ring true though I agree, and I think some of his stuff is hilarious =D.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2015)

MiGGeLLo said:


> Well he's a cheeky entertainer, he isn't really going for being taken seriously by and large other than for laughs. His messages on various things do ring true though I agree, and I think some of his stuff is hilarious =D.




He reminds me of Russel Brand.  Who stole whose schtick?


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

MiGGeLLo said:


> Well he's a cheeky entertainer, he isn't really going for being taken seriously by and large other than for laughs. His messages on various things do ring true though I agree, and I think some of his stuff is hilarious =D.



All I knew him for before this was a role he had in Californication.  Very talented guy.


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## MiGGeLLo (Oct 28, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> All I knew him for before this was a role he had in Californication.  Very talented guy.



Haha yeah I saw that! Atticus Fetch was a pretty interesting character in the show.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

ambush80 said:


> He reminds me of Russel Brand.  Who stole whose schtick?



I don't know. This Jim fellow is uber talented though.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 28, 2015)

ambush80 said:


> He reminds me of Russel Brand.  Who stole whose schtick?



Google is awesome. 

http://www.stubbornpig.com/index.php/topic/s/322


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## gordon 2 (Oct 29, 2015)

This boy's reference mention to Sam's mom as a "white (Female Dog)" is somewhat indicative of which tail, which pack and what love this late Noël Coward is wagging. Also the boy's reference to genius is interesting. I am of a faith that we say what we mean and mean what we say, even while under the persona of a musical Mr. Bean who's genius was that of the character of an adult having a mind of a 12 yr old.


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