# How far is too far?



## Todd Cook (Jul 2, 2016)

Obviously thats a question each must answer for his/herself. It gets asked a lot on different forums, and a lot of different answers are given.

I believe a man should test himself. I believe every time one drops the string on a living breathing creature, we should truly believe we know where the arrow's going. Bad shots happen. I made one on a deer last year, and truthfully was lucky with the result. The deer died quickly enough, but I hit far from where I was aiming.

So how do you test yourself? I tried an experiment this afternoon. I went out and found a spot that I thought was a reasonable, yet challenging distance from one of my targets. I made no warm up shots, although I did shoot earlier today. I tried to focus hard on the center of the lungs, just above the heart. I normally don't shoot groups, but I shot 8 arrows and this is what I got:

I won't say(yet) what the distance was, but I'll say it was closer than some of the 3D shots we take on a course. The front arrow is a wound, no doubt. I think the next one is too, unless it cut a lucky artery or vein. And the one on the top edge of the lungs, I know its a solid "8" in 3D, but I think it could be trouble. I'm satisfied with the rest of them. 

It was humbling to be honest. And it made me realize my form needs to be better. So should I feel ok at this range, or do I need to get closer? I already know my answer, I'm just curious how others look at it.


----------



## Stump Shooter (Jul 2, 2016)

I believe the real test is time and experience, with the shots you have made in the past at living animals. Speaking for myself I think the longer I hunted with traditional gear the more seasoned I became and my shot distance decreased. You would think my shot distance would have increase, but mine has decreased, I learned my true limits. I personally had no business taking shots at 20 and 25 yards like I have in the past but it was those shots at live animals that helped me come to the conclusion I was shooting to far. Over time I think most Trad hunters come to this conclusion. I do think the long shots and off balance shots on the 3D courses help me make that shot inside my effective range. I would guess that group is shot from a distance greater than 15 yards. I have seen you shoot Todd and if it was closer than 15 I bet that group would be the size of a softball.


----------



## dpoole (Jul 3, 2016)

3d targets don't move they will still be in the same spot when the arrow gets there. That aint always the case with live critters.


----------



## dm/wolfskin (Jul 3, 2016)

I bet some would say that 3d targets do move and the trees around them too.


----------



## Barry Duggan (Jul 3, 2016)

For me, in some situations, not far can be too far. In real life, some of them solid eight foam shots can turn into, "we need to go get the dog".
Also, for me, consistency, or lack there of, is a greater factor than distance.


----------



## robert carter (Jul 3, 2016)

15 yards is plenty for me. It takes a 3d course to make a fella realize that sometimes.


----------



## Todd Cook (Jul 3, 2016)

dpoole said:


> 3d targets don't move they will still be in the same spot when the arrow gets there. That aint always the case with live critters.



Truer words you won't hear. As long as I've been doing this it still amazes me how fast a deer can react.


----------



## Bucky T (Jul 4, 2016)

I goof around out to 50yds in my backyard. 

But....  My deer stands are set up for 15yds and closer. 20yds is my max distance I will loose an arrow on a deer.


----------



## ngabowhunter (Jul 5, 2016)

dpoole said:


> 3d targets don't move they will still be in the same spot when the arrow gets there. That aint always the case with live critters.



I'm pretty sure those targets move when I shoot at them, because more times than not my arrow does not hit where I'm aiming. Only thing I can figure is that the targets have moved before my arrow got there.


----------



## TIMBERGHOST (Jul 5, 2016)

Good discussion and good stuff in this thread.

I think the worst habit is not practicing like you are hunting. In other words, a 15 yard shot on level ground ain't the same as a 15 yard shot from 15 feet up in a tree. The thing tends to get more problematic, for me, the closer the deer gets. A steep angle shot at 6 or 7 yards away is worse for me than a "flat ground" shot out to 25 yards. 

Y'all oughta practice a few from your usual stand height if you plan to hunt from elevated platform or tree stand.  I know I will.

Todd, if you will, would you shoot that same group from 15 feet up and about 12 yards away and post the photo on here? Just for curiosity's sake?


----------



## Todd Cook (Jul 6, 2016)

TIMBERGHOST said:


> Good discussion and good stuff in this thread.
> 
> I think the worst habit is not practicing like you are hunting. In other words, a 15 yard shot on level ground ain't the same as a 15 yard shot from 15 feet up in a tree. The thing tends to get more problematic, for me, the closer the deer gets. A steep angle shot at 6 or 7 yards away is worse for me than a "flat ground" shot out to 25 yards.
> 
> ...



Yep I will, 1st chance I get.


----------



## Todd Cook (Jul 6, 2016)

Well, this is not what I hoped it would be, but this is it: 12 yards, 15 feet up. Very informative though. Lots of work to do.


----------



## Clipper (Jul 6, 2016)

I don't recall ever getting a second shot at  a missed deer.  When I can consistently hit the kill zone on my first shot of each practice session then I figure I'm ready for deer season.  I shoot groups to work on form and get my arrows hitting where I look, but I really like to stump shoot a lot.  I also shoot from the tree house I built for my grandchildren and I will loose a practice arrow before climbing down from my stand, unless I am being real careful not to stink up the place.  And, I try to get my stands less than 15 yards from where I think the game will be.  I also get busted a lot(lol).


----------



## Barebowyer (Jul 6, 2016)

Great information on here and a great thread to get people thinking.  Glad you posted it Todd.


----------



## Todd Cook (Jul 7, 2016)

Clipper said:


> I don't recall ever getting a second shot at  a missed deer.  When I can consistently hit the kill zone on my first shot of each practice session then I figure I'm ready for deer season.  I shoot groups to work on form and get my arrows hitting where I look, but I really like to stump shoot a lot.  I also shoot from the tree house I built for my grandchildren and I will loose a practice arrow before climbing down from my stand, unless I am being real careful not to stink up the place.  And, I try to get my stands less than 15 yards from where I think the game will be.  I also get busted a lot(lol).



It's funny you say that about the first shot. Vance and I have been sending each other pictures of our 1st shot of a particular shooting session. Just a little accountability I guess, and maybe some good natured ribbing.  The funny thing is most of our first shots are good ones. But groups are TOUGH for me. I can hold my focus strong for 2 or 3 shots, but then I struggle. I think it's good practice though. You never get better working on your strengths.


----------



## beaulesye10 (Jul 7, 2016)

Todd Cook;10243961 But groups are TOUGH for me. I can hold my focus strong for 2 or 3 shots said:
			
		

> When I first started shooting I was reading everything I could, some stuck some did not. However one piece stuck that I still use to this day. It was from Byron Ferguson, he said he shoots 3 arrows at a time during practice sessions. He said that is the maximum number he can keep his focus on the spot and good from. Now I know his sessions are probably a lot longer than mine, but I feel I get more out of my sessions when I shoot 2 or 3 arrows at at time, makes me make each shot count more, because I have to walk the 15 yards to get them.
> 
> I also treat my first arrow as the most important one. I normally take it from a distance that I feel the most confident at 8-12 yards, and since over the years that is the average of my shots I like to start there.
> 
> Its always interesting to see how far our limitations out reach our will no matter how much we wish it was not. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## TIMBERGHOST (Jul 7, 2016)

Looks to me like most, if not all, of those shots woulda killed a live deer. Good job!  

Clipper is correct. One rarely, if ever, gets more than that first chance.   

The other important piece of the practice puzzle is to ensure you verify that EVERY arrow flies right with your chosen broadhead on it.  I just finished that exercise with a bunch of my arrows.  The ones that pass muster get a little triangle mark on the tail end. I use a black sharpie.

Another important thing to do is actually practice regularly with those broadheads - both pre season and DURING the season. Pick two or three broadheads and assign them as practice only and just wear out that old 3D target or foam block.   Practicing with your broadheads is extremely important - in my view.


----------



## Stickman1 (Jul 11, 2016)

Todd Cook said:


> Well, this is not what I hoped it would be, but this is it: 12 yards, 15 feet up. Very informative though. Lots of work to do.





Dude that's your 12 yard pattern I mean group lol Imust be a way better shot than I thought...


----------



## gregg dudley (Jul 11, 2016)

When I make shooting decisions I do not think in terms of yardage.  I think in terms of a yes or no that is based on a variety of factors including distance.  "Too far" is definitely a good reason to pass on a shot, but a raw yardage distance is not.  Sometimes 5 yards is too far and sometimes 30 is not.  The animal's attitude, your confidence level, your practice history, the target size, lighting conditions, fatigue, etc. combine to determine your ability to make a particular shot or not.  Of all these factors, confidence based on an accurate assessment of your abilities at the time of the shot is probably the most important.  Putting a yardage distance in your head as a concrete shot limit can both encourage you to take shots that you aren't prepared to take and discourage you from making shots that you are.


----------



## Dennis (Jul 11, 2016)

gregg dudley said:


> When I make shooting decisions I do not think in terms of yardage.  I think in terms of a yes or no that is based on a variety of factors including distance.  "Too far" is definitely a good reason to pass on a shot, but a raw yardage distance is not.  Sometimes 5 yards is too far and sometimes 30 is not.  The animal's attitude, your confidence level, your practice history, the target size, lighting conditions, fatigue, etc. combine to determine your ability to make a particular shot or not.  Of all these factors, confidence based on an accurate assessment of your abilities at the time of the shot is probably the most important.  Putting a yardage distance in your head as a concrete shot limit can both encourage you to take shots that you aren't prepared to take and discourage you from making shots that you are.


Very well said and very true


----------



## AllAmerican (Jul 11, 2016)

I've just been disciplining myself by focusing on form and anchoring.  I alternate from light bows to my heavier bows.  It's seems to be working for me.  Yardage is more of knowing if you should raise or lower the bow, but your shot sequence is the same regardless.  I'm no expert but proper arrow tuning and consistent form have help prove to myself that is the key for success.  

Hunting, and live game, adrenaline, the environment all can alter what I just mentioned above.  You only live once, if it's legal to harvest, let it fly!


----------



## whossbows (Jul 15, 2016)

Its only to far if u shoot under it
.lol


----------

