# Permanent Teflon Coating?



## GrouseHiker (Feb 19, 2010)

Is there any type of baked on, permanent coating for improving the slickness of small parts such as pivot pins?


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## bocephus1 (Feb 19, 2010)

I've heard birdsong's blackT is self lubricating and can be applied to all internal part.


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## Hodaka (Feb 19, 2010)

Gear Kote. Not teflon but moly based. Gun Kote is a external finish......very durable.


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## no clever name (Feb 19, 2010)

My FIL has had several guns done with black T.  I've shot a couple of the guns he's had it applied to and can't say that it improves anything as he's pretty ocd about maintaining his guns.  

His EDC gun shows little wear on the cycling parts or normal holster wear areas.  He did tell me that Mr. Birdsong (who died last year) said that he never advertised because he had enough work from govt contracts to keep him busy.  His son took over after his death and at least has a website up now.  

There's a ton of different finishes out there with good reviews but robars np3, black T and severns hard hat seem to have the best combo of wear and corrosion resistance.

I'm going to have a pistol green T'd later this year.  I'll let you know how it turns out


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## GrouseHiker (Feb 20, 2010)

Aren't all these products exterior finishes? I'm more interested in some type of ultra thin coating that could be used on internals. Specifically, I'm installing an oversized pivot pin through a trigger, and it will not normally be pulled out and lubricated. Firing pins would be similar - seldom removed and lubed.

Maybe the best alternatives for these items are the dry lubes?


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## no clever name (Feb 20, 2010)

GrouseHiker said:


> Aren't all these products exterior finishes? ?


 
no they're not


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## Hodaka (Feb 20, 2010)

https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=2

Gear Kote is an internal coating. Used primarily on engine internals (cylinder walls, valve stems, cams, 2-stroke pistons, etc) and especially transmission gears to reduce friction and allow cooler running.


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## Wiskey_33 (Feb 20, 2010)

NP3 is said to be excellent.


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## GrouseHiker (Feb 20, 2010)

no clever name said:


> no they're not



Ok, but it looks like these would probably only make sense for complete job - not a do-it-yourself project. Is that true?


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## GrouseHiker (Feb 20, 2010)

Hodaka said:


> https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=2
> 
> Gear Kote is an internal coating. Used primarily on engine internals (cylinder walls, valve stems, cams, 2-stroke pistons, etc) and especially transmission gears to reduce friction and allow cooler running.



This company also has a baked-on product:

https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=20

And this also looks interesting:
https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=20


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## no clever name (Feb 20, 2010)

Definitely not DIY.


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## Hodaka (Feb 22, 2010)

I've done several 2-stroke pistons and various parts. You can use a rechargable aerosol can to spray it on and an old toster oven to cure the finish. I am on the lookout for an old beater 1911 and will use both products for resinishing it.

I think Gun Kote is way more durable than "duracoat" finishes and Gear Kote can only be removed by bead blasting it. The "normal" product cures at around 300f for an hour if I remember right. The ceramic coatings need way higher temps, don't think you could do that in a garage sale tooster oven.

Do not use Mama's kitchen oven!


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## jglenn (Feb 22, 2010)

I found Gun Kote to be a bit brittle.. Cera Kote is the best  home finish..IMHO

the bake on Cerakote  you do at 200 for 2 hours.  very thin .001 and very durable.

Many custom gunsmiths use CeraKote


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## bighonkinjeep (Feb 23, 2010)

There are several automotive products out there that get into the pores of the metal and lubricate. Though these are not finishes they are probably worth your consideration if you want to reduce friction. (z max $35 at Wal Mart) I have a friend who says hes showing promising results using it on rifles .  He claims to be getting smoother operation, lower pressures, higher velocity and easier cleaning.
I had a tarus total titanium that came with case colored hammer trigger ejector rod etc. These parts were not low maintenance which was one of the primary considerations when making the purchase, I had bought it at Bernies when he was still in buisness. After several months of dealing with the case colored parts rusting at the drop of a hat, and at Bernies suggestion I had him send the parts to Birdsong to be coated with black T. Not only did they become maintenance free but super smooth as well. I think at the time it was about $ 85 to have the internals done.
I have used the Brownells  oven cure moly teflon finish  and it works great for external surfaces but the color will wear off on moving parts/ friction areas.The beauty of the moly teflon finish is just because the color wears off dosen't mean the moly which infuses into the metal is gone. Just be aware if you decide to use this product, that you are supposed to media blast prior to use for proper results.


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## Gunplumber Mike (Feb 23, 2010)

How about nickel plating?  I don't think anything is slicker and it lasts forever.


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## Mossy Creek Lee (Feb 26, 2010)

I use Norrell's Teflon Moly but you have to beadblast the surface first.  Not sure if that's what you want on a pivoting surface.


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## ironhead7544 (Feb 26, 2010)

+1 on the Robar Mp3.  I think its what you are looking for.  IIRC, its teflon impregnated nickel plating.


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## GrouseHiker (Feb 27, 2010)

ironhead7544 said:


> +1 on the Robar Mp3.  I think its what you are looking for.  IIRC, its teflon impregnated nickel plating.



This looks like it would definitely work, but it's not DIY. It would probably be worthwhile for a complete trigger group, but not one pivot pin. I may consider going that way.

Here's something else that looks promising. I sent them an email asking if it might work in my application:
http://www.ro59inc.com/ezapplication.html

By the way, I found the reference to RO59 at this site, which contains a wealth of expert information on coatings. The nickel/teflon coatings are mentioned in a number of threads as well as moly coatings: http://www.finishing.com/73/49.shtml

I've also sent Dow Corning an information request about MolyKote:
http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/products/details.aspx?prod=02412241&type=PROD

They also have a baked on version (MolyKote 106), but it's only available in $90+ containers. (http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=26EN)


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## jglenn (Feb 28, 2010)

haven't tried this myself but it has a very good reputation

http://www.blackicecoatings.com/Index.html


exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...gonew/1/Anyone_know_anything_about_Bla#UNREAD


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## GrouseHiker (Mar 1, 2010)

Hodaka said:


> I've done several 2-stroke pistons and various parts. You can use a rechargable aerosol can to spray it on and an old toster oven to cure the finish. I am on the lookout for an old beater 1911 and will use both products for resinishing it.
> 
> I think Gun Kote is way more durable than "duracoat" finishes and Gear Kote can only be removed by bead blasting it. The "normal" product cures at around 300f for an hour if I remember right. The ceramic coatings need way higher temps, don't think you could do that in a garage sale tooster oven.
> 
> Do not use Mama's kitchen oven!



It kind of goes against my grain to sandblast (or bead blast) a polished part so the coating will adhere. Does the Gear Kote fill in the pores to produce a smooth, polished finish?


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## Hodaka (Mar 1, 2010)

*Coating*



GrouseHiker said:


> It kind of goes against my grain to sandblast (or bead blast) a polished part so the coating will adhere. Does the Gear Kote fill in the pores to produce a smooth, polished finish?



It seems fairly smooth after baking, after running a little while the high spots smooth into a very slick surface. I think the buildup is less than 1/1000 of an inch.


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## Mossy Creek Lee (Mar 1, 2010)

Mossy Creek Lee said:


> I use Norrell's Teflon Moly but you have to beadblast the surface first.  Not sure if that's what you want on a pivoting surface.



I stand corrected on this.  You have to sandblast - beadblasting won't be sufficient for the Norrell's to adhere to.  Sorry for the misquote.


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