# Deer lease cohesiveness, question



## tealboy1 (Oct 25, 2012)

A hunting buddy put together a lease and is working on refining rules and "best practices" and he has asked my opinion.  I decided this broader group might be able to help, though i realize the question is probably unusual.  There are two topics in particular he is focused on.

One relates to maintaining cohesiveness of the club by having a strong desire to have everyone eat dinner in the common club house.  He believes there is too much of a tendancy for folks to split off into groups and the club would lack unity (10-12 member family club).  While i agree in many ways, my experience is, the club can become divided over the clubhouse b/c you will have folks who don't contribute food, don't cook and don't clean.  I've been on such a lease and the resentment that develops when certain folks walk out to enjoy the fire while others do all the work.  

I know it is an odd question but just curious how others do it and what your experiences are.  He is trying to create as nice of a family club as he can but recognizes there is always some amt of friction when you put a group of folks together with varying interests and priorities.  

The other topic is, a rule that says "if you draw blood, you burn a tag".  This comes from his experience with archery where too many deer are wounded and this will force better shot selection, though is a strong rule when only 3 tags are issued


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

tealboy1 said:


> A hunting buddy put together a lease and is working on refining rules and "best practices" and he has asked my opinion.  I decided this broader group might be able to help, though i realize the question is probably unusual.  There are two topics in particular he is focused on.
> 
> One relates to maintaining cohesiveness of the club by having a strong desire to have everyone eat dinner in the common club house.  He believes there is too much of a tendancy for folks to split off into groups and the club would lack unity (10-12 member family club).  While i agree in many ways, my experience is, the club can become divided over the clubhouse b/c you will have folks who don't contribute food, don't cook and don't clean.  I've been on such a lease and the resentment that develops when certain folks walk out to enjoy the fire while others do all the work.
> 
> ...



My personal opinion, just from the context of those two questions; your buddy is a type 'A' personality and a control freak and will have trouble keeping people in that club, period. #1 - for one adult to tell other adults when and where to eat dinner is just weird. #2 - for him to feel almighty enough to make rules that subvert state law on when a tag is to be used is even weirder. I wouldn't touch that club with a ten foot pole simply based on those two rules, and I can imagine how messed up some of the other rules are.


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## bluemarlin (Oct 25, 2012)

Hilarious! Is this some type of off the hook, family reunion hunt club?

Force better shot selection... Seriously?

I'd tell your buddy he needs to practice more with his bow if His experience with archery hunting is wounding deer. Better yet, leave the bow at the house, let members eat where ever they want, drink a beer, relax, and don't run the club like some fresh out of the academy rookie cop.

I'll keep the 10-12 members in my thoughts.
Good luck!


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## Darien1 (Oct 25, 2012)

I kinda like the idea of cohesiveness.  I'm in a club with about 8 members.  Last year I saw one other member while I was there and that was only becausw he heard me shoot and called me to see if he could help me load my deer.  If not for that I wouldn;t have seen anyone.  We have, I think, 3 members that I have never met.  I'd kinda like to have a get together, swap some stories and information.


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## Gulfin (Oct 25, 2012)

Dinner - Forget it. There is nothing wrong with wanting the people in your club to like hanging out together and I like the idea but it's not going to happen. As was said above, its going to be tough to get everyone on the same page. Second, other than a couple weekends a year, there probably won't be that many people in camp. You can try to set up a potluck dinner, say for example opening weekend or after Thanksgiving, when most people are likely to be at camp but that would be about  your best bet. Even then it might not go as well as you would have hoped.

Wounded deer - Went back and forth on this one myself. Decided against it as it hasn't been an issue and people are going to make mistakes. IF it became a common occurrence I would have no problem with the rule. If people don't like that it makes you wonder about their management goals (if your club has any)/ability/thoughts on how many deer they want to kill. Personally, I (the president of our club) wounded a deer opening weekend of bow season and we couldn't find her. The shot was a little high but looked pretty good to me and I believe she is dead. I went to our log sheet and put it down as one of mine. Just the way I look at things I guess but what the others do is up to them until it becomes a problem.  

One thing you can't do is worry about what people say about you and what you want to do. You have goals and expectations and set it up like you want to. No matter what you do there will be people that like it and people that don't. Doesn't make them bad and you good, or them right and you wrong, it just means you hunt different or have different goals when you do hunt. Be PERFECTLY CLEAR to prospective members what those goals and expectations are up front. I promise you, it'll save you head aches later. When you think you are clear enough, make it a little clearer. There are always those that want to bend things a little so make them and stick to them! It may take a couple/few seasons to get a stable, like minded membership but it will be worth it in the end.


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## simpleman30 (Oct 25, 2012)

i'm so thankful to be in a good club that has been doing things the same way since the 1890's.  we eat together, we hunt together, and we get together throughout the offseason.  here's an article on us from GON's August 2010 issue.  

http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=2454&cid=26


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## ben300win (Oct 25, 2012)

When I was a kid, we used to play penny annie poker in the cook shack to keep everyone together. Also my uncle Doc bought all the food and cooked everything. We all chipped in and paid 5.00 per day per person for the food he bought. That was in the 80s so it might cost more now. If you didn't eat with the group, you didn't pay. Just made it easier not to have to pack food to go to hunting camp, or worry about what everyone liked to eat. I can still taste the "tater soup" he used to fix. Lol


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## shakey gizzard (Oct 25, 2012)

5 bucks a head and force unity!  Whom ever wants ta kick it up a notch


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## oops1 (Oct 26, 2012)

I've been on one great deer lease that ran like your buddies vision but that was 17 years ago. Our president would call the members and let em know what he was cooking and you would bring your own meat and he'd provide the sides. He'd leave a receipt in the cabin and we'd divide up the expenses. There was never an issue with cleaning up...that's what us kids were for. I'd pay top dollar for another lease like that so my son could experience some of those good times. But like others have said...you can't force that upon members. If he wants to take charge and try to make it work he should give it a shot.
As far as the blood rule...that'd be a deal breaker...a family club's gonna have wives and kids with less experience. ..not to mention everyone tanks once in a while. Tell him to drop that rule and go for it. Or start a trophy club.


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## tealboy1 (Oct 26, 2012)

Interesting feedback, everything from "those concepts are nuts" to sounds good. For now, we all are in fact eating together and it works pretty well though I don't like the idea of making members feel like they have to eat together. While the group gets along sometimes you want to do your own thing. 

The blood rule is being considered as something new bc we r a trophy club but have limited game as is common in FL vs other areas. Rarely is a deer brought in during archery but always, there are 2 or more lost deer to poor shot placement. I kinda support this rule and thought most would. U aren't getting kicked off or fined, u simply burn a tag. I think most of the memebrs are ok with it tho prob a diff case when it really happens to them.


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## denny (Oct 29, 2012)

We have a common area that we ask all to eat at. Don't care when or what just do all the cooking in the cooking area. Keeps more control over mice and such. We have a great time as this is a outside covered area with hot water, stove,oven, microwave, 4  types of grills, and direct tv. You can stand by the fire while watching football and cook at the same time.


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## Sargent (Oct 29, 2012)

tealboy1 said:


> A hunting buddy put together a lease and is working on refining rules and "best practices" and he has asked my opinion.  I decided this broader group might be able to help, though i realize the question is probably unusual.  There are two topics in particular he is focused on.
> 
> One relates to maintaining cohesiveness of the club by having a strong desire to have everyone eat dinner in the common club house.  He believes there is too much of a tendancy for folks to split off into groups and the club would lack unity (10-12 member family club).  While i agree in many ways, my experience is, the club can become divided over the clubhouse b/c you will have folks who don't contribute food, don't cook and don't clean.  I've been on such a lease and the resentment that develops when certain folks walk out to enjoy the fire while others do all the work.
> 
> ...



Is your buddy in management (at work)?... It sounds like he's been to too many professional management seminars. 

You can't make people like one-another.  It either happens or it doesn't.


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## bamaboy (Oct 29, 2012)

I really don't know what to think about this!?


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## Dutch (Oct 30, 2012)

Seriously?

I would with  walk away from a club with a rule like this. I mean its one think for everyone to get togather and decide to cook a big meal, and share in fellowship... but to have the club pres. try to force people to eat togather?!? 

Good luck with that. especially since the members would be paying...not being payed to hunt. The pres. pays my dues he can tell me who to eat with.


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## sac1972 (Oct 30, 2012)

I really don't see a rule to force people to eat together. Not everyone likes or wants the same thing. You can try inviting folks to eat on the weekends. Someone will have to call earlier in the week to invite them. Another suggetion is to have a couple of club cookouts every year. We have 2, one in the spring and one in the fall plus every workday we have lunch provided for by the club. This works great and people get free lunch on workdays and bring a side dish on the cookouts. We are a family oriented trophey club. http://www.buck-run.webs.com


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## Win1917 (Oct 30, 2012)

I agree with the others about the eating arrangement. Forcing people to sit together ain't my idea of fun. Sometimes I want to eat with a group. Sometimes I just want to B S around the fire with some cracklins and a cold beer.


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## Nannyman (Oct 30, 2012)

If he wants everyone to eat together and burn a tag if blood is spilled, he needs to have a membership vote. Members have rights. If he signs the lease and wants to make this rule he must wait till renewal time and let folks vote with their wallet. He must be upfront.


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## merc123 (Oct 31, 2012)

Ever went to a school function in the gym or cafetria?  All of the friends sit together.  You're just choosing for folks to 'clique' in a smaller space together.  People will naturally sit together with people they know.  Cohesion will come eventually as folks get to know each other.  If there is a dinner held in the club house I'm sure people will attend and hunting family bonds will be formed.  Can't force folks into these bonds.  

Also with the blood/tag thing.  Things happen.  I shot a deer with a crossbow that didn't drop a single drop of blood.  Died 60 yards out of sight under my buddy's stand.  Never would have found it otherwise.  I wouldn't have had to burn a tag with your rules if we never found the blood/deer.


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## dawg2 (Oct 31, 2012)

I'll say this:  "It looks good on paper."  But it won't work in reality.  People will always "split-off" into groups.  As for #2, folks will just not fess up if they shoot and lose a deer.


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## Dyrewulf (Oct 31, 2012)

dawg2 said:


> I'll say this:  "It looks good on paper."  But it won't work in reality.  People will always "split-off" into groups.  As for #2, folks will just not fess up if they shoot and lose a deer.



Dawg hit the nail on the head, it's one thing to make the dinner option available, another to make it mandatory.  If he's serious about the dinner option, though, one idea would be 'if you want to eat in the main lodge, bring $X per day to contribute' but then you will have to have a designated cook etc, which makes it more like an outfitter than a lease.

I love to cook and usually I'm the one bringing enough for one full meal at our camp, but a couple of other people bring food and usually cook what they bring. We're lucky in that we are NOT on a lease, it's private property that we simply have permission to hunt.


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## Boar Hog (Nov 1, 2012)

With 12 tags who cares if they have to throw one away? And who is willing to admit they wounded a deer with stupid rules like that anyway? If you have a socially healthy club everyone will share mealtime anyway. Nothing brings guys together better than a big fire-pit. If everyone obeys the laws and rules and pays their dues, feel fortunate and leave it alone!


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## Da Possum (Nov 1, 2012)

This thread cracks me up.........a rule about eating supper together???????  I have now heard it all.


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## MonroeTaco (Nov 1, 2012)

We've kicked guys out of our club for not eating at the proper dinner time, and they better eat what we cook for them! We do have some openings this year...


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## thericcardgrp (Nov 2, 2012)

Would not like the eating rule. We do also have club picnics during the off season which really works out well.


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## smitty (Nov 5, 2012)

Less is always better !!!


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## ted_BSR (Nov 13, 2012)

The key to cohesiveness is picking the right members. I am particular about who joins my club. I also lean towards family groups, or at least two guys who are friends and have some kids that will all hunt together. Get some good guys involved with your club, and you won't have to make rules about eating supper.

As for the blood rule, are you going to hire private security to enforce this rule?


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## paulito (Nov 14, 2012)

I agree with the eating rule being a bit much. Add in the complications of having some guys hunt all day and others just the prime hours you would have to set eating hours too. Don't think that one would fly. 

As far as the rule about drawing blood i believe the OP has mentioned that they are shooting for a trophy club or at least a well managed one. Any rule is only as good as the honesty of the members. Cheaters are gonna find a way. I don't see this rule being much different than a fine for button buck or spikes. A cheater is just throwing that button head in a ditch instead of forking over $100 or whatever the fine is. Just their dedication and honesty to the club to prevent this. Not saying i'm in love with this rule but i guess i just don't see it as outlandish as some seem to. Maybe people would be more comfortable with an amendment that says if the deer shows back up on camera or is  seen alive by another member you get your tag back. 

Bottom line put it up for a vote with the membership and see what sticks. Of course half way through the season is a bad time to start tinkering with club rules unless there is a glaring issue that needs addressing.


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## Headsortails (Nov 14, 2012)

If you want to kill a club, rule it to death. The best rules are don't be a butt, don't be stupid, help out and be legal.


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## whatknot (Dec 3, 2012)

Headsortails said:


> If you want to kill a club, rule it to death. The best rules are don't be a butt, don't be stupid, help out and be legal.



Amen.  If you need more rules, maybe you need to trade in some members.


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## southernboy2147 (Dec 4, 2012)

ive never been in a club because ive always had private land, but there is one club that uses our driveway as a easement that has been there since my dad was a little kid (hes >51< a yr). all but 2 of them are related. i think there are about 8 left, there use to be alot more but most of them are on up and age and unable to get out in the woods anymore. but they have always done everything together. they all eat, and hunt together. even all go to bed at the exact same time. thats the kinda club im use to. i love it that way, its more than hunting then


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## florida boy (Dec 5, 2012)

Dutch said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I would with  walk away from a club with a rule like this. I mean its one think for everyone to get togather and decide to cook a big meal, and share in fellowship... but to have the club pres. try to force people to eat togather?!?
> 
> Good luck with that. especially since the members would be paying...not being payed to hunt. The pres. pays my dues he can tell me who to eat with.



amen


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## M Sharpe (Dec 7, 2012)

simpleman30 said:


> i'm so thankful to be in a good club that has been doing things the same way since the 1890's.  we eat together, we hunt together, and we get together throughout the offseason.  here's an article on us from GON's August 2010 issue.
> 
> http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=2454&cid=26


Good article. This is the end results when you have a waiting list of folks wanting to get into the club. Most all these clubs: Portal, Bull Town, Bob Town, Thompson's Pasture are all like this. Most are family oriented. You just about have to be kin to someone to get in. They are strong on tradition. You either play nice or they replace you, which they generally have no problem finding a replacement for you. They are clubs where fellowship is as important as the kill. And, if you don't agree, they have no problem with you getting out, because they don't need YOUR money to pay the lease next year.


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