# Ticket for insufficient pfds



## jimmyhoffa (Jun 2, 2014)

I just got a ticket on the Toccoa River (Fannin county) for not having enough life jackets on my boat. The court won't give me a price until they get the ticket. Anybody know the fine? Thanks!


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## the HEED! (Jun 2, 2014)

$150 I think


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## jimmyhoffa (Jun 2, 2014)

Wow! Thanks...


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## Robert Eidson (Jun 2, 2014)

the HEED! said:


> $150 I think





I think it went up to $225 last year. But I am not 100% sure .


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## jimmyhoffa (Jun 2, 2014)

Good lord! I hope not! This seems freaking ridiculous! I was in a raft in 2 feet of water...


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## BCAPES (Jun 2, 2014)

Contact the DNR and the court solicitor to ask for leniency.  They sometimes will reduce the fine by half if you go to court and plead guilty and have a financial hardship.  I have also heard that they will let you do community service by picking up trash at the boat ramp at the rate of $10 per hour to pay off the fine (not worth it in my opinion).


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## brett30030 (Jun 2, 2014)

BCAPES said:


> Contact the DNR and the court solicitor to ask for leniency.  They sometimes will reduce the fine by half if you go to court and plead guilty and have a financial hardship.  I have also heard that they will let you do community service by picking up trash at the boat ramp at the rate of $10 per hour to pay off the fine (not worth it in my opinion).



Probably not going to get leniency since he is Jimmy Hoffa!


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## Mike81 (Jun 2, 2014)

brett30030 said:


> probably not going to get leniency since he is jimmy hoffa!



lol!!!


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## Dirk (Jun 3, 2014)

brett30030 said:


> Probably not going to get leniency since he is Jimmy Hoffa!


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## Dirk (Jun 3, 2014)

Back to the subject though, were you in a registered boat or just a small blow-up raft??? If you were in a small blow-up raft I would tell the judge that you have seen THOUSANDS of people in blow up tubes on the river legally and you did not see any difference in being in a small blow-up raft and a small blow-up tube. You can buy the blow-up tubes at Walmart right beside the blow-up rafts, made of same materials, etc... None of the people in the below photo are breaking the law and none have life jackets except the small children. 












I would print out the photos above and take it with you. If the judge is reasonable he will dismiss the case, and if he is a local judge from North GA he has probably floated down a river many times himself with no PDF, which will probably make him more lenient. 

Now if you were in a large raft with seats, etc. that is nothing like a tube then this approach will probably not work, but thought I would throw this out there as an option for you.


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## VaGator (Jun 3, 2014)

Pay the ticket and get yourself some PFD's. Not worth the hassle of missing work and going to court. Believe it or not they are just looking out for your best interest.


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## mattuga (Jun 3, 2014)

*Navigable Waters*

I believe the state defined "navigable waters" aspect is the difference between floating the hooch in Helen and the hooch around North Metro Atlanta where I know they require a life jacket.  If you were on a non-navigable section of water I don't think the ticket can be given.  I think the Toccoa is defined as non-navigable based on what the google told me.  This is just coming from a guy who thinks he would've been a good lawyer but is not a lawyer.

And VaGator, that is not the way to handle this stuff.  A small percentage of our wonderful DNR and LEOs don't even know the laws themselves.


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## gary b (Jun 3, 2014)

$230 just paid one. The bad thing is I have plenty I just thought the throw would count as one. I could have jumped to shore on either side of river. Total - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - oh well live and learn but I will not go out of my way to be nice to dnr. The next time they pull me over they will have to go to shore seeing as they scratched my boat. I was going to go to court but a couple of cop friends said I might get stuck paying fine and court cost


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## The Longhunter (Jun 4, 2014)

mattuga said:


> I believe the state defined "navigable waters" aspect is the difference between floating the hooch in Helen and the hooch around North Metro Atlanta where I know they require a life jacket.



The Hooch in Atlanta is not "navigable waters" either.

Navigability has nothing to do with having to have PFDs.


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## floyd242 (Jun 4, 2014)

Last time we went tubing on the hooch we were told we had to have PFDs... this was a few years ago.  We just strapped some life jackets to our tubes.


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## PappyHoel (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank God the government saved you from drowning!  Also thanks for your tax money donation.


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## ugafan83 (Jun 4, 2014)

I just paid one in Dougherty county on the flint and it was 145


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## jimmyhoffa (Jun 13, 2014)

Just paid ticket. $75. Thanks for the replies.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jun 13, 2014)

PappyHoel said:


> Thank God the government saved you from drowning!  Also thanks for your tax money donation.



I don't agree with laws mandating such things, but ignoring laws you don't agree with isn't the answer either. 

Work to get them changed if you don't like them.


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## LTZ25 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dirk said:


> Back to the subject though, were you in a registered boat or just a small blow-up raft??? If you were in a small blow-up raft I would tell the judge that you have seen THOUSANDS of people in blow up tubes on the river legally and you did not see any difference in being in a small blow-up raft and a small blow-up tube. You can buy the blow-up tubes at Walmart right beside the blow-up rafts, made of same materials, etc... None of the people in the below photo are breaking the law and none have life jackets except the small children.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two of those rafters have floats !


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## jimmyhoffa (Jun 13, 2014)

*Picture of raft*

Here it is..


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## NCummins (Jun 13, 2014)

Well blowing the no wake zone (didn't think I did) is $138. All they want is your money, beat them in court.


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## GunnSmokeer (Jun 28, 2014)

*cite the law*

So NOBODY in this thread is going to cite the actual law(s) involved?

Posting pictures of other people floating on tubes is not proof of what the law IS.  It might only show an issue of selective enforcement, but that's not a legal defense. The only time it's a defense that the cops let other people break the law while going after you for doing the same thing is when the cops are acting out of actual malice against you, or against some protected group you're a member of-- race, color, religion, gender, etc.

I got a ticket for not having a life vest in my 2-person raft (I was alone in it) going down the Hooch below Buford Dam but north of Johns Creek.  At that time I did look up the law and the park ranger was right.  I recall that the law mandated BOTH a personal floatation device (life jacket) for each person in the boat (had to be kept handy, but not necessarily worn) AND, on top of that, ONE throwable PFD with handles, like one of those floating seat cushions.  I had the seat cushion.

This was 15 years ago. I think the fine was $75 then, but the prosecutor lowered it to $50 in court.


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## The Longhunter (Jun 28, 2014)

GunnSmokeer said:


> I recall that the law mandated BOTH a personal floatation device (life jacket) for each person in the boat (had to be kept handy, but not necessarily worn) AND, on top of that, ONE throwable PFD with handles, like one of those floating seat cushions.  I had the seat cushion.




You only have to have a wearable PFD in a Class A boat (16 foot and under).  You don't have to have throwable if you have the wearable one.  You don't have to have both in a Class A boat.  

Of to restate,  a cushion (throwable, Class IV .pfd) is not adequate in a Class A boat alone, but a wearable (Class I,II, III, or V) is.  Class V   has to be worn to count.

There are a lot of game wardens who aren't aware of this distinction.  I know this because I've had a couple get all froggy about not have a throwable in my 14 foot boat, until I told them they had better check with a superior if they didn't want to spend a large part of the next 6 months in court, and end up looking silly.


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## BoosterC (Jun 28, 2014)

To confirm Longhunter's post...From DNR ->Boating Regs->PFDs:

When preparing to go out on a boat or a PWC, the operator must check that the legally required equipment is onboard.

All boats must have at least one Type I, II, III or V personal flotation device that is U. S. Coast Guard approved, wearable and of the proper size for each person onboard. Sizing for PFDs is based on body weight and chest size.  Type V PFDs are acceptable only when worn and securely fastened.

As of May 15, 2013, Georgia law requires all children under 13 years of age to wear a U. S. Coast Guard approved PFD while onboard any moving boat (VIDEO). This law does not apply when the child is in a fully enclosed cabin.

One Type IV (throwable device) U. S. Coast Guard approved PFD must be onboard all boats 16 feet or more in length, except for canoes and kayaks.  Must be immediately accessible to throw out to someone quickly.

One Type V may be substituted for any other type if it is specifically approved by the U. S. Coast Guard for the activity at hand. Type V PFDs may not be substituted on children weighing less than 90 lbs.

Each person riding on a PWC must wear a U. S. Coast Guard approved Type I, II, III or V personal flotation device. Inflatable Type V PFDs are not approved for use on PWC.

All PFDs must be in good and serviceable condition and must be readily accessible.


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## Gone Fishing (Jun 28, 2014)

Also make sure the lake doesn't have special requirements.  The lake at Stone Mountain requires a throwable regardless of craft size.


_Posted from  Gon.com  App for  Android_


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## spud (Jun 29, 2014)

Got a warning the other day from DNR, I have a a auto-inflate PDF and was told that does not count unless it is being worn. I'm glad that it was only a warning. I'm going to have to look deeper into that one.


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## The Longhunter (Jun 29, 2014)

spud said:


> Got a warning the other day from DNR, I have a a auto-inflate PDF and was told that does not count unless it is being worn. I'm glad that it was only a warning. I'm going to have to look deeper into that one.



What you were told is correct.

I wear mine all the time, not just to make it legal, but because I ain't as steady on my feet as I used to be   , and the new ones don't really get in your way or make you hot.

The information about wearing it should be on the label.  It's not USCG approved unless you are wearing it.


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## T.P. (Jun 29, 2014)

What is the reasoning it has to be worn to count?


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## DC-08 (Jun 29, 2014)

$94 in Union co for not having one on a paddle boat


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## The Longhunter (Jun 29, 2014)

T.P. said:


> What is the reasoning it has to be worn to count?




I guess the reasoning is that it doesn't work as a PFD until it's inflated, and the powers that be don't want you grabbing it in an emergency, thinking it will provide flotation.

I've never inflated mine, but I imagine that if it inflates while you're not wearing it, it's going to be pretty hard to put on, and face up  flotation is one of the standards USCG uses to approve PFD


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