# Do you know Jesus?



## gordon 2 (May 11, 2012)

Hebrew 8:11 
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 Jermiah 31:34 
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

John 6:14 
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
-------------------------
I often read or am led to understand, that in heaven "No longer will a man teach his neighbour or a man his borther, saying, "know the Lord"... But in Jeremiah we read that this will be the case when "I will forgive and remember their sins no more." and I believe this last to be the genesis of christians today.

 So is this your experience? Did someone say to you or teach "know the Lord"? In my experience I always knew Him, even the days of my crib and when my first words were "la papa". God was always a loving God, I had no need of someone to teach me this. And I believe this is in accord with the purpose of the Good News and the ministry of our Saviour.

Is my experience odd ball, what accounts for it? I might add that I'm RC and was baptised seven days after my birth. Could this have anything to do with this? I have known many to claim that they were raised in the church and the word to know God as a fire and brimstone dragoon until they were baptised and the Holy Spirit lighted up the world of Grace for them.

????  

Those of you who have the vocation of teachers what is your view?


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## StriperAddict (May 11, 2012)

*Great thread question!*

I'll first say that "knowing the Lord" does not diffuse all the battles of the flesh.  But knowing Him involves intimacy, the kind you mentioned, like as a loving Father cradles His kids.  The intrinsic "knowing" you speak of is well within every heart. The trappings of life can cloud such. I'm happy it seemed never to have happened to you, brother. Some of us were not so lucky, pursuing false gods of the world and turning our hearts away.

But the heavenly call never rests.  It reaches into our dirt and filth and becons us to come and have joy with Abba, Father. It calls us into the deeper life, where words fail and that comforting gaze we "know" from Him comes at times we least expect, and certainly at our greatest need.  Heavenly intimacy begets total open honesty between the two, and coming to Him who carries all my burdens does bring comfort, it is well with my soul in this "knowing".

I may not know much, as in "head" knowledge of the One on whose shoulders my sin and shame rested.

But I am confidant, that in His complete "knowing" of me, comes the rest and joy in his presence like nothing of this world.


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## gtparts (May 11, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> I'll first say that "knowing the Lord" does not diffuse all the battles of the flesh.  But knowing Him involves intimacy, the kind you mentioned, like as a loving Father cradles His kids.  The intrinsic "knowing" you speak of is well within every heart. The trappings of life can cloud such. I'm happy it seemed never to have happened to you, brother. Some of us were not so lucky, pursuing false gods of the world and turning our hearts away.
> 
> But the heavenly call never rests.  It reaches into our dirt and filth and becons us to come and have joy with Abba, Father. It calls us into the deeper life, where words fail and that comforting gaze we "know" from Him comes at times we least expect, and certainly at our greatest need.  Heavenly intimacy begets total open honesty between the two, and coming to Him who carries all my burdens does bring comfort, it is well with my soul in this "knowing".
> 
> ...



Indeed, knowing and being known is "relationship". If one knows the other and the second does not know the first, the first is a stranger to the second. 

While God surely knows all there is to know about us (even to the hairs on our heads), if we do not seek to know Him, are not moved to pursue passionately to connect and maintain that connection, we have really short changed ourselves and the possibilities that relationship can make in our lives and the lives of others.

Gordon, it is a lesson that I learned early (age, 11) and continue to learn, that there is always more to God, more to our relationship, more to faith, more to grace. Much like Paul, I have not fully grasped all that He has for me, but I am committed to continue reaching out to Him.


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## Ronnie T (May 11, 2012)

Jeremiah 31:33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord"


In the days of Jeremiah, people became the Lord's because they were born into Israel.
That isn't so for us, in this new covenant.  One must know the Lord to become part of His kingdom.  No longer to we sit in the synagoge urging people to "know the Lord".  
And we are God's in our hearts, not on tablets of stone.

My search to know the Lord often seems fleeting.  The more God reveals, the more I see that I must learn.  The more that I learn, the more I realize that it's not all in the learning.  
The more I learn about God, the more I'll learn about myself.  The more I trust in myself, the less I need God.

Ultimately, all of life is about knowing Jesus more than we already do.  

Mostly, I believe, it's about becoming spiritual.  Living in Him.  Walking in Him.  Thinking His way.  
It's about climbing up on that altar of self-sacrifice, and not coming back down.  That's where one finally will find all of Jesus.  In giving ourselves wholly to Him.  

And we can't even do that unless He carrys us.

I don't know as much as I think I do.


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## hobbs27 (May 11, 2012)

Amen to Ronnie T!


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## gordon 2 (May 11, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Jeremiah 31:33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord"
> 
> 
> In the days of Jeremiah, people became the Lord's because they were born into Israel.
> ...



In other words your life, your endeavours are your alms, a self-sacrifice?


Quote("No longer to we sit in the synagoge urging people to "know the Lord".  end quote.
Do you know how just recently, in our neck of the woods, it was often heard and written, "Do you know Jesus personally" as your personal savoir"?  I heard it often.

Was John the Baptist a "My Lord is written in the Tablets kind of guy?" And his mother and father and Mary our Lord's mother? When John and Jesus were bouncing around in their wombs, were they content to leaf the tablets in their praise of God? The prophets they claim they are "with the spirit" don't they?

Anyway I'm not asking for a reply here just praying aloud, I am.  My search to know the Lord was in ministering to others. The Holy Spirit is more solid than a govenment bench mark. I have governance and freedom for Him. He is the mark and the lay of the land. 

I often wonder these days if we are like birds in our Kingdom, who yet worry for our weak  endeavors in the great commission, yet are sowing seed unknowingly. Some here, some there, some on good ground?


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## Ronnie T (May 11, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> In other words your life, your endeavours are your alms, a self-sacrifice?
> 
> 
> Yes.  And then No.  And I speak of the ideal, not of my personal life.
> ...


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## hobbs27 (May 11, 2012)




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## Israel (May 12, 2012)

will you survive...will I...the perfect set up?
I don't know what it means to "know" the Lord anymore, at least when questioned. 

I am such a stupid man, mostly because even though I know that's true, I don't really seem to believe it.
I embarrass myself, eagerly.
I lie with such facility, and then become ludicrously outraged when I perceive others do.
I see someone perfectly humble, and allow that knowledge to make me proud.
I speak much of the cross, but then discover when tested, mostly think its more needful for others.
I play the hypocrite perfectly, and then flatter myself by thinking "at least I do one thing well".
I am totally unfit to be in the company of others, yet find myself continually seeking it out.

Do "I" know the Lord?

I'm afraid to answer that, now.
But there sure seems to be someone who knows me.

The answer to why he would even want to...always astonishes me to the bones.


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## gordon 2 (May 12, 2012)

Israel said:


> will you survive...will I...the perfect set up?
> I don't know what it means to "know" the Lord anymore, at least when questioned.
> 
> I am such a stupid man, mostly because even though I know that's true, I don't really seem to believe it.
> ...




Can we know more than men and women can know? Do we know our most intimate fully. No. I believe this is the same with our Lord. Do we know ourselves fully? Maybe some things are not meant for us to be known?

But how do we know one another? We know each other by our values. Now we can know values by how people behave, or what they do or by what they attempt to achieve. 

But also we know how He is by what He has done. We as well know what are the values behind His acts as they are  basically spelled out literally and poetically in scripture.

We can only know partly--because this is how we are. But this is enough to know the values of those we love and those who love us. ( And also those who makes themselves our enemies.) Perhaps this is how we know God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And perhaps this is enough for us to know in our covenant with our Lord. 

He is a God of Justice and Love and our God hears the prayers of the poor. Scripture is full of information on how  people in the past and we fall from grace if we ingnore our Lord's values, but especially those above. And perhaps this is enough to know.

In my culture God, my Lord, is often called or named " Le Bon Dieu". Directly translated into english  this mean "The Good God." Despite that this might point to other Gods that are not so good, a thorn from our pagan heritage, it points out the goodness of God.

This goodness is not a description of the entity that is God only but it is a description of what He does and what He values. And perhaps this is enough for us to know about our Lord, how good He is and His ways. 

And then we should look at ourselves, each other and realize that there is perhaps much of ourselves we do not know, not even what we were born to value.

Jesus is a God sent example of what we should know, His example and His values regards the Kingdom which are really the same values that we were grafted to and that are described  or revealed in the Old Testament.

This sounds simple until we realize how man can run ahead of himself and trip up. For example, if Jesus is our example Revelations does make sense. If Revelations is our example and from it we draw our values, Jesus does not make sense but in His second comming and we risk a bipass of the values that were ever God's--as revealed in the Good News. Even the Holy Spirit, our treasure, if Revelations becomes our guide, He becomes our gate ticket puncher instead of our teacher and our protector. 

Perhaps.


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## StriperAddict (May 12, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> ... He becomes our gate ticket puncher instead of our teacher and our protector.
> Perhaps.


Perhaps He beckons us to know Him as all three, and yet as so much more...?  Do I dare the risk of knowing Him in the fellowship of his sufferings as Paul did, or would I save my own hide? Gethsemane resides within, as does Christ, but will it make it to the outside, as Jesus did?  Do I know this Teacher in the same conflict of suffering?  Lip service only?, forbid it Lord.  His is the course of true light, sans my emotions raising their fists.  He took me to the cross where I died with Him, then nothing too hard for Him, is there, as His life within is yielded to... 



Ronnie T said:


> And we can't even do that unless He carrys us.
> 
> I don't know as much as I think I do.



Do I reason continually that apart from Him I can do nothing? In  this thought aren't we to pray without ceasing, or have that consistent  attitude of attention?
As you say brother, even in this "one thing I  do", I cannot, apart from His touch, to bring any old/false reasoning's  around to His truth.  



gordon 2 said:


> ... yet are sowing seed unknowingly. Some here, some there, some on good ground?


Faith will carry the work of "our" seed, as we trust He places it towards ground ready to receive it.

I  am about to visit with my parents this month, a face to face meeting I  confess I dread to some degree. Not for the sake of the love between a  son and Mother/Father for I know there will be great moments of  closeness and sharing heart.  But it hurts to see that the word of Life  has had little yield of the Lords' mercy and grace on their lives. This  has been my biggest burden for a long time (please pardon my derail),  and is coming to a breaking point where I am so frustrated in not seeing  Jesus' word taken to heart by them.  I am also aware of my own "growth  frustration" in the Lord, and I even think I am an incapable witness in  my own household.  The "prophet without honor in his own home" - comes  to mind. This much I know, and pray... that a soft heart must needs be  my contrite conviction, in abolishing all "i am" so that the real true  "I am" can abide and walk thru this time, as I keep faith.  Can I endure  this unanswered prayer for the souls of the ones who by love brought me  up (as best they could)?  Is there a selfish part to this in me I am  not seeing?
No doubt. I have so much in Him yet to understand and comprehend. 




gtparts said:


> Much like Paul, I have not fully grasped all  that He has for me, but I am committed to continue reaching out to  Him.



I am blessed and humbled (again) by so many treasures I've seen in this thread. Thank you all.  

May  each of us walk in greater intimacy, knowing not just the "acts", but  the very ways of the Lord Jesus, for it is in Him that we live, move and have our being.  

What humble thanks we have toward you, Lord Jesus, for knowing us, and still delighting to be "in" us, and live Your life through us!


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## gordon 2 (May 12, 2012)

Quote[Faith will carry the work of "our" seed, as we trust He places it towards ground ready to receive it.

I  am about to visit with my parents this month, a face to face meeting I  confess I dread to some degree. Not for the sake of the love between a  son and Mother/Father for I know there will be great moments of  closeness and sharing heart.  But it hurts to see that the word of Life  has had little yield of the Lords' mercy and grace on their lives. This  has been my biggest burden for a long time (please pardon my derail),  and is coming to a breaking point where I am so frustrated in not seeing  Jesus' word taken to heart by them.  I am also aware of my own "growth  frustration" in the Lord, and I even think I am an incapable witness in  my own household.  The "prophet without honor in his own home" - comes  to mind. This much I know, and pray... that a soft heart must needs be  my contrite conviction, in abolishing all "i am" so that the real true  "I am" can abide and walk thru this time, as I keep faith.  Can I endure  this unanswered prayer for the souls of the ones who by love brought me  up (as best they could)?  Is there a selfish part to this in me I am  not seeing?
No doubt. I have so much in Him yet to understand and comprehend.[End Quote] 
---------------------
In the end or the beginning were are left to say yes or no to the Kingdom. The folk at Ninivah said yes....

But are we in the days of the prophets? The prophets ministered to Isreal or their own kind. But were the prophets ministers to pagans? No. Prophets to pagans would more than not put the cart ahead of the ox.

Missionaries, apostles, Paul. It is God who saves the godly.

If it was up to me, my instinct would be to  learn to know and love my parents even more. My honor for them would be my ministry. If my parents were without grace, I would lovingly elbow now and then ( rarely, that they were making themselves miserable for it.

If I was you, I'd learn from them and not the otherway around. Your reception might make for a time when you see they said "Yes" and are doing the best they can. Remember we are all from somewhere.

You know that for many it is not parents their worry, it is their children that is a concern. Show them they need not be overly concerned for you, perhaps.


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## thedeacon (May 12, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Perhaps He beckons us to know Him as all three, and yet as so much more...?  Do I dare the risk of knowing Him in the fellowship of his sufferings as Paul did, or would I save my own hide? Gethsemane resides within, as does Christ, but will it make it to the outside, as Jesus did?  Do I know this Teacher in the same conflict of suffering?  Lip service only?, forbid it Lord.  His is the course of true light, sans my emotions raising their fists.  He took me to the cross where I died with Him, then nothing too hard for Him, is there, as His life within is yielded to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Stripper I know your heartache, for years and years my Dad would not even discuss anything spiritual with a positive view, he was a hard man.

I could not discuss anything about the Church with him but when I was out of his presence but within earshot I would make small comments when I new he could hear them. We were all very concerned about him but in a round about way I made sure he was being feed to some extent.

One day when I was going to preach I called to ask him to babysit with a sick baby but instead I told him I was going to preach and ask him to go and he said, I believe I will. That day he surprised everyone there and went forward before the first verse of the invitation song was finished. He had a difficult time but it was amazing how hard he tried and how much he changed.

Keep praying and above everything else keep showing him how much you love the lord, he will get the message.

My Dad was then in his early 70's. 

God bless you.


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## Israel (May 12, 2012)

It's almost too hard to believe.
And I know I couldn't...and wouldn't... if not compelled by someone else to do so.
How could anyone abide here?
Look, when I tell you  I am nothing...I may even believe I mean it...but go ahead...come back at me and say "You know Israel, we've all really known that all along, we have just been patient with you to finally realize it...and to stop acting like such a pompous a**"

Then we'll see how much "nothing" has to say about itself.
But when Jesus says "of myself I can do nothing", and absolutely refuses to budge from that place, either in self defense, condemnation, or even just refusing to exercise option "B" for something he was not under any "compulsion" to do..."Father, I think I'd like those 12 Legions of angels..."
I stand rather awestruck.

The fact that I am standing and breathing at all about it really shows...I don't yet see as I ought to.


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## gordon 2 (May 13, 2012)

Israel said:


> It's almost too hard to believe.
> And I know I couldn't...and wouldn't... if not compelled by someone else to do so.
> How could anyone abide here?
> Look, when I tell you  I am nothing...I may even believe I mean it...but go ahead...come back at me and say "You know Israel, we've all really known that all along, we have just been patient with you to finally realize it...and to stop acting like such a pompous a**"
> ...


--------------------------------------------------------------

Ok my brother. Perhaps  your see like our great grand-father King David who by his psalms we know loved the Lord in the fashion of one person to another, his faith awe inspireing, but yet Grand-Pa David lived the need to cut for himself and the Lord, a Kingdom with iron and stone.

You are your own Goliath?

Now our living brother Jesus, our Lord, our King, in the line of King David, who's father was also King David chose not his earthly father's ways, but his father's Lord.

He stood by David's Lord and for Him could do no other than toss away his father's sword and slings(fronds). 

Jesus "gives" us the Kingdom that was ever there, as if from heaven...freely. No need to cut anyone up or ourselves. No territory to gain. No need of a walk in the enchanted forest of mystics. No need to make ourselves clean.

We honor our father, David, but honor more the Father who made him our father. And how did He make him our father? He made us to forgive him and love him and honor him, because this is what God did for David. He does this for us and points out this is what we should aim to do.

And this is what Jesus does for you and I, as his Father did for David. And this is the news in the Good News, God's voice returns to the ear of Adam. And it is this voice that returns to you, and this is much more than the faith that rallied David.

We have a Kingdom now that was aquired without a sword. A resurection aquired outside the will of man, because our model Jesus did for us what God did for our grand-pa and our ancient King, our Sir, our loved Pa-David.

You are healed. You have no need to go under a man's knife--not even your own. Jesus was  the last to die this way for all time. The way of the Lord has healed you.

So be awestruck instead at David and how his sinew still turns your limbs and how easy now it is to turn from casting the just and right stone to turning the other cheek. Walk in the light of the Father, it does not cut you up. So stop doing it to yourself. My .02 cents in Kingdom currency. Now what could this be called? A small portion of grace, love, a brief account on spending time with the Lord?

Did our Lord say to Adam wittle yourself down to hearing me and doing as I demand? No! My Lord said "Live" and "Chose". "Yonder is a good orchard for you, chose it." Yet  Eve said, "Surely there is better than this?" And we have been remorgaging the orchard ever since--except Jesus is willing to pay for it all, if we say, "Yes." It seems to me you said "Yes" a long time ago. What is it about the orchard that don't fit? I believe you walk in it just fine. So stop cutting-up yourself. It is more of you that is wanted and even more of you is not enough. You are much more than David our old father ever was.

What!? Do you think God would like more of Adam and not less? I do. From your wealth give alms. Grow, increase.  May you prosper in the light of our Father for the orchard in which you stand. Pruning to a sweat is what they/you did east of Eden.


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## Israel (May 13, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Ok my brother. Perhaps  your see like our great grand-father King David who by his psalms we know loved the Lord in the fashion of one person to another, his faith awe inspireing, but yet Grand-Pa David lived the need to cut for himself and the Lord, a Kingdom with iron and stone.
> 
> ...



Bless you brother...and thank you.
Maybe I suffer from "not yet seeing all things put under his feet?"  (God knows.)

And I know the issue is not with his authority, but my sight. 

I appreciate your humility in approaching this carcass at the tomb's gate to remove the grave wrappings. Lazarus needs some help, he could hurt himself or someone else staggering about all bound up.

Also. >Thanks for lending me your eyes. I like them, I really do. I hope to keep them safe.


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## gordon 2 (May 13, 2012)

Israel said:


> Bless you brother...and thank you.
> Maybe I suffer from "not yet seeing all things put under his feet?"  (God knows.)
> 
> And I know the issue is not with his authority, but my sight.
> ...




The two eyes in my head are old clowns. Milton, the poet, on Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, saw well yet being blind as a bat. So what gave him his sight? Truth? Now not just any truth.


 Psalm 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.


I grown....

Or I often ask my sunday schoolers, "How does Jesus see?" and the answers I want back is: With his eyes, his mind and his (often forgotten) heart.


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## hummerpoo (May 13, 2012)

When I read the OP I thought to respond about Hebrews being a graduate coarse for those called to teach, perhaps a bit on the metaphorical Body of Christ, and the Providence of a sovereign God in assembling the Body.  Having read the thread, I find myself dumbstruck; having witnessed those  taught by God, I have been lifted from a dark valley where I could see almost nothing but reflections of man's teaching.  Everyone who has posted here has shone His light into my darkness.  God bless you my brothers.

-----------------------------------------------------
Having thought about it, I now realize I had to go on-line for this kind of fellowship.  Haven't decided what to think of that.


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## Israel (May 14, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> The two eyes in my head are old clowns. Milton, the poet, on Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, saw well yet being blind as a bat. So what gave him his sight? Truth? Now not just any truth.
> 
> 
> Psalm 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
> ...




Whereas Milton, the Haberdasher, was visited by an angel one day. The angel told him: 

"You have found favor and I have come to fulfill any prayer you make of me...But know this Milton, whatever you ask, I will fulfill twofold for your competitor Mr Gross, the Haberdasher, across the street."


Milton thought briefly then said:

















"Make me blind in one eye."


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## gtparts (May 14, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Hebrew 8:11
> And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
> 
> Jermiah 31:34
> ...



Teacher? Perhaps, but much more the humble student. Never the less, perhaps what I have found to be true (more often what has been revealed to me) is this:

For those reared from their youth with the certain exposure to Christianity as was modeled by Jesus, however imperfectly, it is a unique yet often highly similar experience. I cannot say mine was significantly different from yours. I was born into a Christian home rooted in the traditions of Methodist and Baptist churches. In both denominations, the Bible, the relationship that we ought to have with God and man, and the doctrine of the Word were taught as foundational. Dogma was certainly there in both but was not considered a salvation "deal-breaker". Both seem to place the emphasis on those things revealed in Scripture and by the Spirit, and far less on the things that are preferences or nuances of understanding.

The matter of God's character being decidedly loving, forgiving, merciful, redeeming, and gracious versus Him being holy, just, incorruptible, jealous, wrathful, and righteous was something to be understood in the context of a sovereign God, one perfect, divine nature encompassing the totality of our Creator. 

The difficulty in reconciling these attributes in the human mind is when we weight one over the other, particularly when we view any two or three in conflict to each other. The error in this kind of thinking is in us. 

Much as our own parent(s) expressed disappointment when we lied to them or disobeyed, they followed up with discipline and correction, yet they still loved us and desired the best for us, God never fails to exhibit the superlative nature towards His own children, in every instance. Even when we do not grasp the essence of that truth, it is nonetheless true.

The obvious conclusion is that many receive a poor education that skews their perception and others, having no education, often get things wrong when they go it alone or rely on someone equally lacking in understanding.


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## Israel (May 14, 2012)

gtparts said:


> Teacher? Perhaps, but much more the humble student. Never the less, perhaps what I have found to be true (more often what has been revealed to me) is this:
> 
> For those reared from their youth with the certain exposure to Christianity as was modeled by Jesus, however imperfectly, it is a unique yet often highly similar experience. I cannot say mine was significantly different from yours. I was born into a Christian home rooted in the traditions of Methodist and Baptist churches. In both denominations, the Bible, the relationship that we ought to have with God and man, and the doctrine of the Word were taught as foundational. Dogma was certainly there in both but was not considered a salvation "deal-breaker". Both seem to place the emphasis on those things revealed in Scripture and by the Spirit, and far less on the things that are preferences or nuances of understanding.
> 
> ...


 
Perhaps then...the need of one another?
And the persistent, yet needful understanding that no matter how far "one" may progress...we are never "The One"?
That others make up for my lack...pointing always to "The One" in whose name they speak, in whose spirit they flow, in whose life they rejoice?
I used to think being like Jesus would make me "feel" all sufficient, and I believe God's purposes were even served to call things out of me by letting me persist to some extent in that (what I now see) was simply an appeal to a flesh I had no appreciation of...either in need from it's deliverance...or it's endless chatter to try to be like God.

Now all I experience is hunger and thirst, a seemingly gnawing desire for fulfillment with a desperate cry for salvation. Maybe I have yet to "be saved".

I think of "Red" in his last parole hearing. The Shawshank Redemption. "Are you rehabilitated"

Sonny, that's just a made up word so young men like you can wear a suit...

Maybe...like him, I am just approaching being truly repentant...and all the excursions into texts and verses over some years...have simply been a preparation for me to receive the gospel...and life. And see Jesus.

And finally come to a place, that when questioned, I might say "when did I feed you? When did I clothe you? when did I visit you?"

Instead of answering "of course I knew to do those things Lord...what...do you think I didn't read the Bible?"


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## gordon 2 (May 14, 2012)

gtparts said:


> Teacher? Perhaps, but much more the humble student. Never the less, perhaps what I have found to be true (more often what has been revealed to me) is this:
> 
> For those reared from their youth with the certain exposure to Christianity as was modeled by Jesus, however imperfectly, it is a unique yet often highly similar experience. I cannot say mine was significantly different from yours. I was born into a Christian home rooted in the traditions of Methodist and Baptist churches. In both denominations, the Bible, the relationship that we ought to have with God and man, and the doctrine of the Word were taught as foundational. Dogma was certainly there in both but was not considered a salvation "deal-breaker". Both seem to place the emphasis on those things revealed in Scripture and by the Spirit, and far less on the things that are preferences or nuances of understanding.
> 
> ...




Thanks bros. Very interesting observation.

Care to elaborate here a bit 





> The difficulty in reconciling these attributes in the human mind is when we weight one over the other, particularly when we view any two or three in conflict to each other. The error in this kind of thinking is in us.[End Quote]. Perhaps elaborate in this context.
> 
> 
> Matt. 24:37-42 As it was in Noah's day, ...."So stay awake, because you do not know the day when your master is coming."
> ...


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## gordon 2 (May 14, 2012)

Israel said:


> Perhaps then...the need of one another?
> And the persistent, yet needful understanding that no matter how far "one" may progress...we are never "The One"?
> That others make up for my lack...pointing always to "The One" in whose name they speak, in whose spirit they flow, in whose life they rejoice?
> I used to think being like Jesus would make me "feel" all sufficient, and I believe God's purposes were even served to call things out of me by letting me persist to some extent in that (what I now see) was simply an appeal to a flesh I had no appreciation of...either in need from it's deliverance...or it's endless chatter to try to be like God.
> ...



To want to be like the Lord and to what to share His values might be two different wells. One is bottomless and the other as quenching as it gets.

Didn't someone say in our lifetimes that Eve's blunder was that she wanted to be like God? Problem is that God created not other Gods, but created man and I think He said that, "and this was good." Perhaps what was so good about man back then was that man and God shared the same values? They ate at the same table? 

Perhaps. And perhaps when Jesus set us free he returned us to it, again to the days of the Lord? Perhaps.


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## StriperAddict (May 14, 2012)

*with thanks*

I just got back now and noticed quite a few good thoughts worth a look.  
But I first wanted to address those who've answered my last post.




thedeacon said:


> Stripper I know your heartache, for years and years my Dad would not even discuss anything spiritual with a positive view, he was a hard man.
> 
> I could not discuss anything about the Church with him but when I was out of his presence but within earshot I would make small comments when I new he could hear them. We were all very concerned about him but in a round about way I made sure he was being feed to some extent.
> 
> ...


 
Bless you my brother in Christ for your encouragement in the faith. 

My Dad is both a self made and hard man, he especially toughens up at the talk of how Another's sacrifice is required for righteousness (and not his own work) and to accept the gift of redemption. His scripture knowledge comes from many years in a liberal/social gospel church and also taking part in chorus with the bass section in Handel's Messiah. (How anyone can not be eternally touched by that masterpeice is beyond me). 

If I could share a living morsel that God would use, I'd be humbled and grateful. But from which agent of faith I care not.

_His will be done_. 



gordon 2 said:


> -----
> 
> If it was up to me, my instinct would be to learn to know and love my parents even more. My honor for them would be my ministry. If my parents were without grace, I would lovingly elbow now and then ( rarely, that they were making themselves miserable for it.
> 
> ...


 
Bless you for sharing; points all taken in.

 _"Grace of God be present in these hours ahead"_


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## 1gr8bldr (May 14, 2012)

To know Jesus results in hating oneself. It is a cycle of experiential knowledge. I see it every time. A new believer comes into the faith. They eventually work their way up in the church. After sometimes many years of church service, something begins to surface. We see pride in what we have become, our righteousness you might say. We see judgementalness of others. We realize that much of what we do had an underlying motive, for our honor. When we realize that our Lord was not like this, we hate what we see. In view of all he has done, his humility, sacrifice of self, obedience, selfless love, we are broken when we see ourselves for who we really are. To know him is to see ourselves. If you have not had this revelation of self, then you have likely not known him. Roy Hession's  book "when I saw him" is the best book I have ever read. Second to that is "Humility" by Andrew Murry. Both very short reads but heart changing in regards to knowing Jesus


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## Israel (May 14, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> To know Jesus results in hating oneself. It is a cycle of experiential knowledge. I see it every time. A new believer comes into the faith. They eventually work their way up in the church. After sometimes many years of church service, something begins to surface. We see pride in what we have become, our righteousness you might say. We see judgementalness of others. We realize that much of what we do had an underlying motive, for our honor. When we realize that our Lord was not like this, we hate what we see. In view of all he has done, his humility, sacrifice of self, obedience, selfless love, we are broken when we see ourselves for who we really are. To know him is to see ourselves. If you have not had this revelation of self, then you have likely not known him. Roy Hession's  book "when I saw him" is the best book I have ever read. Second to that is "Humility" by Andrew Murry. Both very short reads but heart changing in regards to knowing Jesus



Interesting.
I like what you say about experiential.
Once I thought and said, I was a sinner who needed salvation...and Jesus "saved" me.
But I don't know at all that I ever began to apprehend what I so often quoted as to hating one's own self in order to be a disciple.
I think it would be pride to presume I have yet understood it. 

Perhaps being a disciple "candidate"...is experientially different than being a disciple...maybe in the same way that Peter was called a disciple before the cock crowed, but something drastically changed for him that night.


Now...from the Lord's point of view, that lump of clay, once it's placed on the wheel, is just as surely becoming a vase when first it's slapped down as to when the finishing glaze is put upon it.
But there comes a time in its fashion when it is more than a lump...but perhaps not buffed yet...but has the capability of holding some water for a thirsty passerby.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 14, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> To know Jesus results in hating oneself. It is a cycle of experiential knowledge. I see it every time. A new believer comes into the faith. They eventually work their way up in the church. After sometimes many years of church service, something begins to surface. We see pride in what we have become, our righteousness you might say. We see judgementalness of others. We realize that much of what we do had an underlying motive, for our honor. When we realize that our Lord was not like this, we hate what we see. In view of all he has done, his humility, sacrifice of self, obedience, selfless love, we are broken when we see ourselves for who we really are. To know him is to see ourselves. If you have not had this revelation of self, then you have likely not known him. Roy Hession's  book "when I saw him" is the best book I have ever read. Second to that is "Humility" by Andrew Murry. Both very short reads but heart changing in regards to knowing Jesus


Correction, "When I saw him by Roy is liked by many yet that is not the book I intended to mention. It is "We would see Jesus"


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