# Pointing dog training timeline



## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hey guys,

I know a lot of you have started dogs from a puppy and I'm trying to get some insight on a training timeline over the first 6 months to a year of a dogs' life.  My puppy is less than 8 weeks old and I don't want to give him too much to chew on.  Right now I'm mostly just teaching him his name.  He is responding very well to it and I use his name as kind of a universal command.  Right now his name means come, no, heel, kennel, etc.  

Obviously, I won't be moving on to new commands until he gets good with each one, which is going to be different for each dog, but I'm looking for rules of thumb and maybe what order you teach the commands.

I'm just excited about training him and getting him on birds but I have to keep from getting ahead of myself and getting him in over his head too soon.  Thanks y'all.


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## Jim P (Dec 11, 2009)

Doc, the first thing is let the little guy be a puppy, as for the chewing, he's going to chew and when he's done chewing he is going to chew some more. My last pup I gave her one of my old boots, she loved it. Like all of us we want our pups to be bird dogs before there time. Have fun with the little guy and before you know it, it will be next bird season and he will be ready to go.


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## timetohunt (Dec 11, 2009)

X2 on letting him be a puppy first.


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## StevePickard (Dec 11, 2009)

Go to this site for some good info on Brittany training from 8wks to 8months. Its really packed with good stuff.
http://www.brittanys.com/Brittany_training.htm#8weeksup 
Also get the George Hickox training DVD for pointing dogs. It will be a good investment.  I've used his methods to train my Brittany and I don't know what I would have done had I not had this DVD.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2009)

btw... I've read Ben O. Williams' book and I'm reading Bill Tarrant's book on the Delmar Smith Method.  

Pretty different approaches, but both have some very good stuff.  Thanks for the link Steve.


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## Nimrod71 (Dec 11, 2009)

Doc, I have trained dogs for over 30 years and I can tell you the Delmar Smith and Richard Walters methods really work.  As stated above, let him be a puppy, the trick is handling him.  Don't leave him in a pen or box.  Every chance you get have him out playing with him.  Work with him a few minutes then play with him a while.  Never train over 15 minutes at a time.  The the basics down first, Name, come, sit, set or stand still.  This will take time, don't get in a hurry.  Stack him out for short periods, walk him on a check cord.  Enjoy him and you will get there.


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## GTM142 (Dec 12, 2009)

Nicely said.  Doc, get him out running in the woods/field, show him that being out there is the best time he will ever have.  Let him chase birds, and he will.  Everything is fun, fun, fun and play, play , play.  This first 12 mo. is important.  What he takes away from this time stays with him the rest of his life.  Dont be in a hurry.  Patience grasshopper..  This is a 14 yr. investment.  Most Britts dont even become that well broke hunter your wanting tell there 2/3 yrs old. So, again patience.  Oh and that chewing thing.  You havent seen nothing yet.  Just wait tell the counter surfing begins.  good luck.


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## mecicon (Dec 12, 2009)

If you have friend that has a dog find some field space and let him run. Let him explore.

Simple commands "Doc come", "Doc bad or uhuh" you want to stay away from "NO" sounds too much like "whoa".

Get him lots of toys so he has his own things to chew and play with, then you can give him something after you take away your "toy."

Definitely let him be a puppy.

Nobody knows your dog better than you and your dog knows you better than anyone else. 

About your pup, he is so cute, but then again my wife says "I am puppy whipped."

Enjoy.


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## Luke0927 (Dec 13, 2009)

If the dog is a house dog start your crate training and sit if you want to....make sure you socialize the dog right and intro him to birds and guns correctly once the time is right.


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## tlsgcs (Dec 14, 2009)

I will throw this out there, everyone may not agree with it, but be careful training your birddog to sit.  I have seen quite a few 1 to 2 year old dogs that folks are beginning to try to steady up or teach whoa and the dog defaults to the sit command because of the pressure.

My opinion two commands right now, "kennel" and "here/come"

One more key, never give the command unless you can enforce it and like everyone else says, let the dog be a pup!


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

I recently heard from a Brittany man that you just turn those dogs loose and they train themselves


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> I recently heard from a Brittany man that you just turn those dogs loose and they train themselves



lol... don't believe everything you hear.

I do expect that he will be a very good natural hunter once he hits the field.  But I'd also like him to be a little less than the anti-Christ right now.  

Thanks everybody for the info.  He responds to his name pretty well right now and he doesn't mind being on a check cord in the least bit.  I'm trying to use "no" as little as possible because if I didn't I'd be saying it constantly.  He actually responds to "uh-uh" better, anyways.

Just curious to those who crate-trained puppies.  When did your dig cease to despise his kennel when it was bedtime?


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> lol... don't believe everything you hear.
> 
> I do expect that he will be a very good natural hunter once he hits the field.  But I'd also like him to be a little less than the anti-Christ right now.
> 
> ...




My dog loves her kennel.  I played with her in it from the first few minutes home and it is her little place.   Without fail every time I have put her in there I give her a treat before closing the door and that has really helped.  Now I'm not saying she didnt cry the first few nights but that will go away before you know it. Just don't give in and let them out right after you put them in when they start crying.


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

Coming fom the brittany man himself referred to, you can rest assured probably that if your dog has the right breeding, he will automatically hunt cover harder and better than most pointers and hunt is something that usu. Either they do or don't have regardless of the hunting dog type.And I will take a hard hunting meat dog any day over a magazine cover type dog. And I bet the dog will at least try and retrieve a bird for you. Don't get so wrapped around the wheel on the training. You will be fine..I have a beagle that will at least retrieve even if she does want to eat them. More than I can say for a pointer man that I hunted with on here. But as he said, to each their own.He is more than welcome to call me, show up at my house or go with me and watch a meat dog hunt hard, point and retrieve. I will even bring the bird beagle along for an extra retriever.Sorry to turn your thread neg.but some people probably need some etiquette training still.and I don't mind being the facilitator of said traiing. Saddle up cowboy this is not my first rodeo.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)




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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> I recently heard from a Brittany man that you just turn those dogs loose and they train themselves




You talking about Ben O Williams or Beagle Stace?   I just don't think there are enough birds in GA to let your dog train themselves.  If you do have the time and property to be able to put your dog on wild birds at least 4 times a week, then you are a lucky man!


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey Johnny Mc, you out there? Come on in- the water is warm.the next trip I go on, I may want to bring that young GSP Rose. I know she has not hunted wild birds yet but I have seen a lot of hunt and drive. And at least I know she will retrieve birds for me and is not possibly gun shy. I bet me and you as two dumb beagle guys can figure out the rest. In my few short yrs. Of fooling with hunting dogs, I will take natural drive any day. Kind of like a quarterback or a catcher, you either have the arm cannon or you don't? You can fine tune the rest.


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## thomas gose (Dec 14, 2009)

you bird hunt with beagles?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 14, 2009)

Beagle Stace said:


> Coming fom the brittany man himself referred to, you can rest assured probably that if your dog has the right breeding, he will automatically hunt cover harder and better than most pointers and hunt is something that usu. Either they do or don't have regardless of the hunting dog type.And I will take a hard hunting meat dog any day over a magazine cover type dog. And I bet the dog will at least try and retrieve a bird for you. Don't get so wrapped around the wheel on the training. You will be fine..I have a beagle that will at least retrieve even if she does want to eat them. More than I can say for a pointer man that I hunted with on here. But as he said, to each their own.He is more than welcome to call me, show up at my house or go with me and watch a meat dog hunt hard, point and retrieve. I will even bring the bird beagle along for an extra retriever.Sorry to turn your thread neg.but some people probably need some etiquette training still.and I don't mind being the facilitator of said traiing. Saddle up cowboy this is not my first rodeo.





now all you need is a Spartan to go along with those meat dogs...


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Beagle Stace said:


> Coming fom the brittany man himself referred to, you can rest assured probably that if your dog has the right breeding, he will automatically hunt cover harder and better than most pointers and hunt is something that usu. Either they do or don't have regardless of the hunting dog type.And I will take a hard hunting meat dog any day over a magazine cover type dog. And I bet the dog will at least try and retrieve a bird for you. Don't get so wrapped around the wheel on the training. You will be fine..I have a beagle that will at least retrieve even if she does want to eat them. More than I can say for a pointer man that I hunted with on here. But as he said, to each their own.He is more than welcome to call me, show up at my house or go with me and watch a meat dog hunt hard, point and retrieve. I will even bring the bird beagle along for an extra retriever.Sorry to turn your thread neg.but some people probably need some etiquette training still.and I don't mind being the facilitator of said traiing. Saddle up cowboy this is not my first rodeo.



Well as far as etiquette training goes you had your chance on Thursday night when you called out those pointing dogs the first time...not that I would want hunting etiquette from someone who ground pounds birds in front of his "bird dogs"...

and as far as magazine dogs go...I know of a few that ole boys that would gladly put their fancy magazine dogs up with as much money as you want on a wild bird hunt.  I assume that they would want to only count the birds that were pointed though..not just one that were "put up" and shot off the limb

Regarding the English pointers lack of natural retrieve...heck, we can always fix that with a little TRAINING...may have to be force fetched but I heard they make books and videos that kinda tell you how to do that.  Or maybe I could get me some beagles to hunt with so he can just learn from them.  

And to call out my puppy whom I've had in my possession for only 1 month...now thats some fine etiquette!


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Yall get it out now so we can go hunting this weekend please.


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## thomas gose (Dec 14, 2009)

Nitram4891 said:


> Yall get it out now so we can go hunting this weekend please.



sounds to me like they need to either strap on boxing gloves or boots and spurs and have a rodeo!


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Nitram4891 said:


> You talking about Ben O Williams or Beagle Stace?   I just don't think there are enough birds in GA to let your dog train themselves.  If you do have the time and property to be able to put your dog on wild birds at least 4 times a week, then you are a lucky man!



Actually, alot of brittany men have told me that and I wasn't intentionally trying to start a breed war...those are usually reserved for the coon hunting forum.  And I certainly never singled out another man's dog...cause unless it is playful banter among friends....that is something that should never happen...end of story!!!

I have never owned one because I like a tail on a hunting dog (no offense to any brittany or GSP owners, seriously), so I don't really know how easy they are to train.  

I'm sure there are individuals of every breed that with enought wild bird experience will learn to properly hunt by themselves.  But...in my opinion, if you aren't training your dog with controlled situations and repititions you arent' getting the full potential out of your pup.  With that said...I'm on my first bird dog so I really don't know jack


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> But...in my opinion, if you aren't training your dog with controlled situations and repititions you arent' getting the full potential out of your pup.  With that said...I'm on my first bird dog so I really don't know jack



In general, I agree with you, and I know even less about training them than you do, as evidenced by this thread.

But even reading Ben O. Williams' book you get the idea that he's not very hung up on getting the "perfect" bird dog.  He's not overly concerned with teaching backing, or "whoa," or punishing a dog for blowing up a covey.  His basic method is to let the dog be a dog, but he also hunts with 6 dogs at a time and he lets his older dogs teach the younger ones.  He also has tons of time and patience to wait for that to happen.

There's a good reason people send their dogs off to be "finished."  Its a very intense process that a lot of people don't have the time or know-how to do.

I'm not sure which boat I'm in just yet, btw.  Thinking I'm gonna aim high, though.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Here is what I want my "meat" dog to do:

- needs to point and hold game.

- needs to back if you are going to hunt with other dogs (out of courtesy in my opinion)

- needs to be able to be handled in the field (heel, come)

- needs to retrieve

For my dog, the retrieving part is coming on very easy and without any training other than throwing a ball.  The handling is also going very well.  Where she is lacking is the steadiness on point and that is where controlled repetitive training is going to come into play.  If she pointed and held her points pretty well, I don't think I would need much training to have what I want but every dog is going to be different.


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

Well Ole Canbrake, According to you on Thurs. night past, we agreed to disagree but  I guess you changed your mind. Can see this change coming from a generation X-ER . But this is okay. I am going to put you to bed here and get the nipple out of your mouth. You opened the can and I will seal it for you. Like stated before, feel free to contact me direct from this point forward. 

I do not need validation from you nor anyone else on here to make me feel better as a person nor a hunting dog owner/trainer. Experience has taken me where I need to be and in time you shall acquire and understand. The bottom line is that I don't need you and certainly not your dogs to hunt with me in the future. But Lets look at the big picture. I was nice enough to at least invite you on this trip to Ks. with me and do ALL the planning beforehand. All you had to do was show up after jerking me around for weeks as to whether you would go.  And also show you a place that you were not aware of to train your dogs. Never asked anything from you and you certainly did not offer. So do you think that I am loosing anything by not hunting with you? I will answer-NO NOT HARDLY!! Probably best we both do our own things. Good luck to you is all I can say. And I don't even think I ever heard a THANK YOU even prior to this nonsense. That fact is VERY interesting would you say not!

But to set the record straight coming form someone that puts a beagle down for birds, I could care less if you hunt with a German Sheppard or Treeing Walker. This should be rather obvious for you by now. Bet an outsider can see this. 

And you are right about correcting that retrieving issue with training- Indeed alot of that may be needed in your future.

And glad you mentioned me ground pounding that pheasant on the ground. Yes, if I remember correctly my bird dog was not even on the ground that day. Set the record straight about how you ditched raked those pheasants from the snowy fencerows with no dogs. Yes, they jumped up when the truck door slammed but no dogs involved. Getting interesting now, huh!!

Care less about your good ole boys. Maybe if you were not such a jerk, you could have maybe made it to Mi. and I could have showed you some more real bird dogs and hunters.No limb raking there this past trip nor road shooting. You play your role and I will play mine. And I Agree that you do need a bird beagle or Jack Russell to retrieve for you if you are going to hunt wild birds. Have heard that even a house poodle can get the job done well. Good riddance and Happy Holidays.


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Beagle Stace said:


> Well Ole Canbrake, According to you on Thurs. night past, we agreed to disagree but  I guess you changed your mind. Can see this change coming from a generation X-ER . But this is okay. I am going to put you to bed here and get the nipple out of your mouth. You opened the can and I will seal it for you. Like stated before, feel free to contact me direct from this point forward.
> 
> put me to bed????  Funny how all of these words failed you when you were sitting across the table from me last week?
> 
> ...


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## thomas gose (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> Beagle Stace said:
> 
> 
> > Well Ole Canbrake, According to you on Thurs. night past, we agreed to disagree but  I guess you changed your mind. Can see this change coming from a generation X-ER . But this is okay. I am going to put you to bed here and get the nipple out of your mouth. You opened the can and I will seal it for you. Like stated before, feel free to contact me direct from this point forward.
> ...


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

I think we just blew by the sports forum and waterfowlers forum..


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

thomas gose said:


> Canebrake said:
> 
> 
> > This is the funniest thread ive read on this forum all year!!!!
> ...


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## thomas gose (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> thomas gose said:
> 
> 
> > quit your giggling gose...youre just one of those generation X-ERs that reads those fancy magazines!!!
> ...


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Good job Doc, look what you started...


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## Jim P (Dec 14, 2009)

How long was you guy's in Ks?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 14, 2009)

Nitram4891 said:


> Good job Doc, look what you started...



All I asked was when to teach your dog what...


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> All I asked was when to teach your dog what...



ha,ha...and all I said was I heard that brittanys were easy to train!

some folks get all riled up from behind a desk!


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

No problem Canebrake, I have plenty of people to still hunt with me and maybe internet meeting is not for you. My record seems pretty good tho so check the mirror. I believe Michael Jackson had a song about that. You dont need my tracking collars. Even the dogs I was tracking for you did not go far.   As for toting your light dishing out, once again feel free to contact me. I was not the ONLY person on the trip offended by your work ethic. I dont think I ever saw you clean a dish> we are from different molds for sure. Did you ever Thank Bernie for ALL he did? Did not think so!  And you don't hear me talking to my dogs when I hunt. But whatever dude! Like I said, my phone is always on and door open. Funny you did not comment on that ditch raking? You enjoy your Holidays!


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey beagle boy you think you could train this fat headded walker to point and retreive wild birds. I figured anybody with as much time and experience as you claim ought to charge a fortune.


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

Im not trying to boast or anything but I got a pug that will out retreive anything land or water


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

man in the mirror???  Are you bragging about your eHarmony conquests???

yea, we all hunted the ditches...thats where the birds were?  I just didn't shoot any off the ground bub cause I can do that here on squirrels if I want!  Who shoots into a covey off the ground...seriously???

As for Bernie it was a pleasure meeting him and I do appreciate him manning the grill.  I wish I  wouldn't have been too worked up to thank him better before we left out!  I just don't take kindly to folks bashing my dogs.  I never said a cross word about yours...not even when the going was tough for those beagles.

If you're bashing the range on my puppy then I don't understand your point.  Its true he is still a little skittish and I'm the first to admit that...if your bashing Eddie and Kate then you should have manned up and said such things when I was standing in front of you.  You could have seen them dogs work if you wouldn't have stayed in the cabin!  


Different mold for sure is right...I am of the mold that doesn't talk mess he can't back up...


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Mucho said:


> Im not trying to boast or anything but I got a pug that will out retreive anything land or water



that Brannigan pup does kinda look like a pug


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

Once again Canebrake, feel free to contact me directly on these matters.I am thru with you. Do you need my contact info.? Not in the least worried about you. As for the retrieving pug, does not suprise me if he has the drive.


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

somebody is racking up the points today


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Jim P said:


> How long was you guy's in Ks?



5 days


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## thomas gose (Dec 14, 2009)

Mucho said:


> Im not trying to boast or anything but I got a pug that will out retreive anything land or water



i have a lab that will watch that beagle pick up a bird and then go get the beagle and bring them both back!!


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

I have a great dane that will retreive the lab that is got the beagle and the bird in her mouth


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Mucho said:


> somebody is racking up the points today



Ha, Keck, you cant get points against you just because some little biatch gets online and bashes you and your dogs after a week of hunting with you face to face!

Glad i got ya'll to hunt with cause this little fiasco probably just lost me all of my internet huntin' pals...


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

If I line the trip up for south GA this weekend you better thank me


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

Lol!  Bring that pug so we can bring to hand all of those bobs we are going to pop with our 22s!


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

Canebrake said:


> Ha, Keck, you cant get points against you just because some little biatch gets online and bashes you and your dogs after a week of hunting with you face to face!
> 
> Glad i got ya'll to hunt with cause this little fiasco probably just lost me all of my internet huntin' pals...



Well you still got one but thanks to this thread my only two won't hunt together anymore...


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## Canebrake (Dec 14, 2009)

It wasnt the thread Martin..apparently it was the dawg-gone dishes!!!  Who knew???


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2009)

Once again Canebrake and for moderators on here,

Feel free to contact me directly. Just remember that True Character does not hide and will always reveal itself. I am not hiding behind no keyboard or talking behind your back. Call me direct or come on by. Count the number of times mentioned above.


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

come out come out where ever you are canebrake and quit hiding from this guy. You should probably just call one another and be done with it


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2009)

I think this thread proves we don't have moderators on upland hunting... maybe yall should clean it up yourselves and let Doc get some more advice about teaching Doc how to be a good bird dog.  

Perhaps Mucho can share some, that kate dog is pretty good.  I'd still like to see your dog drop a bird in your vest though.  Not that I don't believe it but that must be one heck of a smart dog.


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## Mucho (Dec 14, 2009)

It can be arranged will have to get together before season ends


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## mecicon (Dec 14, 2009)

Back on topic:

"Just curious to those who crate-trained puppies. When did your dig cease to despise his kennel when it was bedtime?"

Every dog even within the same breed and litter are different. Make it positive, give them a treat with a simple command..."box" or "crate"..."bed".

To me "Kennel Up" is up to the open door. Whether it is the truck door or an open dog box on the back of a trailer. Give the command and point and or touch the open door.


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## Murphy (Dec 15, 2009)

My Vizsla had been crate trained before so he went straight to it. My bluetick pup was quiet the first night I got lucky  Most of my other pups took about a week or so as soon as they realized I wouldn't let them out when they cried it was over. Now I do like to get up during the night or early in the morning and let the pups have a Potty break,until I am sure they can make it through the night accident free. I take them out and don't say a word to them or even acknowledge them till they go Then I tell them to "hurry up" while they are going then pet them up good  when they are done. Then they go right back to their Kennel (Crate) and are done till morning. "Hurry up" worked for a few of my past dogs but not all-It helped when they got older or when  it was cold or raining and I let them out and they went almost as soon as it was commanded as I said some not all  mostly my old labs It just something Ive always used when potty time came


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 15, 2009)

Murphy said:


> My Vizsla had been crate trained before so he went straight to it. My bluetick pup was quiet the first night I got lucky  Most of my other pups took about a week or so as soon as they realized I wouldn't let them out when they cried it was over. Now I do like to get up during the night or early in the morning and let the pups have a Potty break,until I am sure they can make it through the night accident free. I take them out and don't say a word to them or even acknowledge them till they go Then I tell them to "hurry up" while they are going then pet them up good  when they are done. Then they go right back to their Kennel (Crate) and are done till morning. "Hurry up" worked for a few of my past dogs but not all-It helped when they got older or when  it was cold or raining and I let them out and they went almost as soon as it was commanded as I said some not all  mostly my old labs It just something Ive always used when potty time came



good info Murphy.  I'm expecting Doc to quit whining any night now, as we totally ignore him until morning time.  We usually let him out about 6 every morning and he's holding it all night most of the time now.  I'm going to start working on the "hurry up."

We had a really crazy weekend this week and had to truck him all over the place and sleep in a new place so I think that set him back a bit.  He was doing much better by last Friday night.


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## Luke0927 (Dec 15, 2009)

Get a spray bottle with water and spray him in the face with a stream when he whines.


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## Canebrake (Dec 15, 2009)

luke0927 said:


> get a spray bottle with water and spray him in the face with a stream when he whines.



x 2


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 15, 2009)

Luke0927 said:


> Get a spray bottle with water and spray him in the face with a stream when he whines.



I'll give it a shot.


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## Jim P (Dec 15, 2009)

I wouldn't spray him with water, I had a setter that her first owner would spray her with water, now I have her and every time I turn on the hose she takes off, she thinks she did something wrong. Like murphy said, you have to take them out, they are like babies they have to go, after awhile they will be able to hold it until morning.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 15, 2009)

Jim P said:


> I wouldn't spray him with water, I had a setter that her first owner would spray her with water, now I have her and every time I turn on the hose she takes off, she thinks she did something wrong. Like murphy said, you have to take them out, they are like babies they have to go, after awhile they will be able to hold it until morning.



He can hold it til morning.  He does most mornings so I don't think that's the problem.  

He just whines because he doesnt like being confined to his crate.


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## Murphy (Dec 15, 2009)

Ive heard many ways to get em Quiet after you know that they can hold it all night. I have used the spray bottle before and it worked I usually just ignore em though it just seems to work best for my dogs Im sure everyone on this forum has there own way and Im sure each one works 
I would just see what works best for you and your dog


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