# Was this the last season on Rhett's Island?



## Mars (Mar 4, 2014)

I hope not but this may put an end to future season on the infamous island.

http://www.thedariennews.net/editionviewer/?Edition=5a34cbd2-1a9c-4c40-a176-c4e3fcfd55e0&Section=0

http://www.ibtimes.com/fort-carolin...-north-america-may-be-located-georgia-1557254

"Researchers came to their conclusion after cross-referencing maps housed at Franceâ€™s national library, coastal charts from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and maps published by the U.S. Geological Survey. The maps in France located Fort Caroline along the southeastern coast of North America. Researchers used the coordinates written down by Menéndez after the French were massacred to prove that the fort is located on Rhetts Island, southeast of Darien, Ga."


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## king killer delete (Mar 4, 2014)

They will put up a Historical marker and keep hunting. Mulberry Grove plantation is for the most part on the Savannah national wild life refuge and what is not the rest is owned by the Georgia ports and allot of that area is open to hunting. There may be a dig but Rhetts is big enough to hunt and do Historical  work.


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## The Longhunter (Mar 4, 2014)

Mars said:


> I hope not but this may put an end to future season on the infamous island.
> 
> http://www.thedariennews.net/editionviewer/?Edition=5a34cbd2-1a9c-4c40-a176-c4e3fcfd55e0&Section=0
> 
> ...




Several articles on this.  Read them all. "They" haven't proven anything yet.

I'm sure that there will be further investigation, but until some definitive artifacts are found, the whole thing is just one more man's opinion.


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## king killer delete (Mar 4, 2014)

The city of Savannah is one big Historical site. When they dig up the streets they dig up bodys all the time. People live here every day and I do not see the state stopping duck hunting in one of the places they have set aside to hunt. Like the man said they better come with some proof.


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## andyparm (Mar 5, 2014)

If there was a fort in Rhett's it's certainly not there anymore! Those dikes have been built and rebuilt many times and the entire place was just marsh before they built the dikes for rice planting (this is just an assumption based on the rest of the areas old rice fields). I highly doubt they will be digging up the Rhetts that we know as duck hunters. Maybe a nearby land mass and I'm sure they will be looking for clues high and low, but I don't believe it will impact hunting the area. 

Having said all that, this is a very interesting article and I'm curious as to what they may find. Hard to believe that something like that exists in that area and no one has ever found anything from it.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

Navigational charts that are over 400 years old???????


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

andyparm said:


> If there was a fort in Rhett's it's certainly not there anymore! Those dikes have been built and rebuilt many times and the entire place was just marsh before they built the dikes for rice planting (this is just an assumption based on the rest of the areas old rice fields). I highly doubt they will be digging up the Rhetts that we know as duck hunters. Maybe a nearby land mass and I'm sure they will be looking for clues high and low, but I don't believe it will impact hunting the area.
> 
> Having said all that, this is a very interesting article and I'm curious as to what they may find. Hard to believe that something like that exists in that area and no one has ever found anything from it.



I would think that it was an island and then the rice fields dug into it later. I'm no engineer but it seems like it would be next to impossible for people in the early 1800s to turn a tidal marsh into farmland.


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## GSURugger (Mar 5, 2014)

Mars said:


> I would think that it was an island and then the rice fields dug into it later. I'm no engineer but it seems like it would be next to impossible for people in the early 1800s to turn a tidal marsh into farmland.



Not impossible at all for rice, which was one of Georgia's staple crops  up through the mid-1800's.  Not to say it wouldn't have been laborious, as rice requires levees, ditches, culverts, floodgates, and drains be constructed in order to control water level.


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

GSURugger said:


> Not impossible at all for rice, which was one of Georgia's staple crops  up through the mid-1800's.  Not to say it wouldn't have been laborious, as rice requires levees, ditches, culverts, floodgates, and drains be constructed in order to control water level.


Wouldn't it be easier and cost effective to dig out an existing island than create one in the tidal waters of the largest river in the area? 

I don't know if the fort was there but I think it was an existing island prior to it being a rice field.  And an island in a major river was the preferred locations of these early forts. Ft Palaski is a good example of this.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

*With all due respect*



Mars said:


> I would think that it was an island and then the rice fields dug into it later. I'm no engineer but it seems like it would be next to impossible for people in the early 1800s to turn a tidal marsh into farmland.



 You have no understanding of the coast and the history of rice farming on the coast. The Georgia coast is nothing but one big old rice field. Rice canals are everywhere on the coast. You can not understand the coast unless you have seen the tidal waters. If it was not rice it was indigo or sea island cotton. It was not impossible they did it everyday.


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

killer elite said:


> You have no understanding of the coast and the history of rice farming on the coast. The Georgia coast is nothing but one big old rice field. Rice canals are everywhere on the coast. You can not understand the coast unless you have seen the tidal waters. If it was not rice it was indigo or sea island cotton. It was not impossible they did it everyday.



Guess my history degree was a waste. 

Please explain to us how it was done and why its easier to build an island than use what's there. 

Just because my location isnt coastal doesn't mean I know nothing of coastal geology or history. Please don't tell people what they know or don't know.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

Well what did you study in history? It is one thing to read it and it s another thing to see the results first hand. If you have read Georgia History you know how it was done. With a shovel and a woven basket. People lived in the marsh and that is what they did was create rice fields.  I think they called those people that built the rice fields , Slaves.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

gastateparks.org/info/hofwyl


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

georgiaencyclopedia.org › Business & Economy › Agriculture


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Well what did you study in history? It is one thing to read it and it s another thing to see the results first hand. If you have read Georgia History you know how it was done. With a shovel and a woven basket. People lived in the marsh and that is what they did was create rice fields.  I think they called those people that built the rice fields , Slaves.



Just so we are clear and don't get too far off topic, I am suggesting that Rhetts island would be a likely location for a 16th century fort and you are suggesting that the island was man made by slaves for use as a rice field. Is that what you are saying?


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

cwww.yale.edu/glc/gullah/02.htm


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm very aware that rice was cultivated here and that man made irrigation existed at that time, and thousands of years prior. 

I am not saying that the fort is definitely there. But I am very familiar with the area and my opinion is that it would be a possible location for the fort. Why do you think the island was made by slave labor.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

Mars said:


> Just so we are clear and don't get too far off topic, I am suggesting that Rhetts island would be a likely location for a 16th century fort and you are suggesting that the island was man made by slaves for use as a rice field. Is that what you are saying?


 Not at all , you ask how rice farming was done. I never said Rhetts island was man made. I am saying it was used as a rice plantation. The rice fields were man made. There may or may have not been a Fort built on the island. But with the nav charts of the day I would think that  a dig may prove that it was farmed but may not prove there was a fort at that location. Who knows with the margin of error of a map made in 1565. As far as your knowlege of the coast your right I do not know what you know and the same can be said that you do not know what I know. You are not the only student of History here. What I was said respectfully. I am a First hand source that does have a great deal of Knowledge about the coast Having lived here for many years and having hunted the island many times in my 62 years. That does not make me an expert but I am a first hand source.  Did not mean to imply that you did not know but I did take your statement at face value. My bad


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

I am with you but until this is proven I do not think that it will affect hunting of any type in that area. The Jury is still out on this one But you do make good points.


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## Mars (Mar 5, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Not at all the you ask how rice farming was done. I never said Rhetts island was man made. I am saying it was used as a rice plantation. The rice field were man made. There may or may have not been a Fort built on the island. But with the nav charts of the day I would think that  a dig my prove that it was farmed but may not prove there was a fort at that location.. As far as your knowlege of the coast your right I do not know what you know and the same can be said that you do not know what I know. You are not the only student of History here. What I was said respectfully. I am a First hand source that does have a great deal of Knowledge about the coast Having lived here for many years and having hunted the island many times in my 62 years. That does not make me an expert but I am a first hand source.



I never denied that it was used as a rice plantation. Anyone that knows anything about wet rice cultivation can clearly see that the island and other surrounding areas were used for just that purpose.

I never assumes anything about your knowledge. I know from your previous posts that you live in a coastal area and have a great deal of experience hunting the island. 

Now to get back to the topic, I agree it would be very difficult to definitively prove that Ft Caroline was built on the island, especially since it was likely a wooden structure.

If found there, significance of this for Georgia history would be great. I just hope it doesn't interfere too much with the hunting.


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

Mars said:


> I never denied that it was used as a rice plantation. Anyone that knows anything about wet rice cultivation can clearly see that the island and other surrounding areas were used for just that purpose.
> 
> I never assumes anything about your knowledge. I know from your previous posts that you live in a coastal area and have a great deal of experience hunting the island.
> 
> ...


 We are on the same page. But for the reason you stated that it was probably a wooden structure I think as you have said it will be hard to prove. But to you orginal point it could have an affect on hunting on the island if it was proven and the people in charge thought it should be closed but I could see that both situations could coexist if  the right people were in charge. I just dont see hunting stopped on the island. But what do i know I said that replanting geese in Georgia would never work and they would never outlaw lead shot for waterfowl hunting. Anything can happen.


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## The Longhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Navigational charts that are over 400 years old???????



The Spanish had mapped out the mouth of the Altamaha when De Soto took his little jaunt.  He was aware of that, and as his venture was one of conquest, he intentionally went away from it, as he could only lay claim to undiscovered lands.

I'll have to check the dates, but there is a lost Spanish Fort in the area of Ft. Barrington, which is itself lost, plus the Spanish settlement on St. Simons.  Cumberland Island had a mission by mid-1600.  I don't know for a fact that there were charts, but it's a reasonable assumption.

Pensacola Bay and the north coast of Flordia were charted by 1540 by three different people, and one as early as about 1520 or so. Pensacola were supposed to be DeSoto's escape valve.  There were several voyages by Spanish ships up and down that section of the coast looking for him, so I'm guessing it got charted even more. 

Must have been an interesting time. "Pick me up.  If I'm not here by two years from now, give up on me."


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## king killer delete (Mar 5, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> The Spanish had mapped out the mouth of the Altamaha when De Soto took his little jaunt.  He was aware of that, and as his venture was one of conquest, he intentionally went away from it, as he could only lay claim to undiscovered lands.
> 
> I'll have to check the dates, but there is a lost Spanish Fort in the area of Ft. Barrington, which is itself lost, plus the Spanish settlement on St. Simons.  Cumberland Island had a mission by mid-1600.  I don't know for a fact that there were charts, but it's a reasonable assumption.
> 
> ...


What was the margin of error? We are looking at this with 21 st century eyes. In my life time I have seen Land and water navigation improve  so much. Example Soldiers in our army still know how to read a map but they have a GPS with them to. When I retired from the U.S. over 20 years ago. GPS was new at that time. It is all realitive. If the surveyors Had had modern Nav tools the Tenn river would be in Georgia.


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## The Longhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

killer elite said:


> What was the margin of error? We are looking at this with 21 st century eyes. In my life time I have seen Land and water navigation improve  so much. Example Soldiers in our army still know how to read a map but they have a GPS with them to. When I retired from the U.S. over 20 years ago. GPS was new at that time. It is all realitive. If the surveyors Had had modern Nav tools the Tenn river would be in Georgia.



Well, being as they didn't have anyway to determine longitude in that era, a lot.  Plus land travelers didn't have an accurate way of measuring distance in a wilderness, and seafarers estimates were highly variable.  But they still had charts, that showed sea monsters on the edges.

Charts of this period show California as an island, for instance.  

I suspect that from what we know about erosion and accretion in just the last 100 years, any surmise about the location of anything on Rhetts Island or any other coastal location, would be highly speculative in the best of circumstances.


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## andyparm (Mar 6, 2014)

If I'm not mistaken, one of the first articles posted here says that the margin of error on the navigational maps was about 17 miles. I'm assuming that would include open ocean navigation since these gentleman were originating from across the pond. That is pretty incredible really.

As for the rice field argument, if you look at a map of the entire  Georgia/South Carolina coastline you can see endless manmade canals in grid patterns. All but a very small percentage of this area (Rhetts, Butler, Champney) has gone back to being marsh land. Rhetts "Island" is nothing more than marsh land that plantation owners had their slaves dig ditches around. The mud/dirt that came out of the ditch was used to build the dikes. At low tide they could then drain the whole thing dry killing the marsh land inside the dike. They then cleared, planted rice, and flooded as necessary. They probably waited for the Altamaha to be at flood stage when possible to avoid too much saltwater in their rice fields. I'm not a History buff really I just know the area very well and grew up hunting and fishing and have always had an interest in the area's plantations.

As for the fort, I will say again that I highly doubt it was inside the dikes of the Rhett's "Island" that duck hunters know and despise. I don't believe that Rhett's was ever an actual island but just what it is today.

From a historical standpoint, this is an extremely interesting topic and I'm curious as to what they may find.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> Well, being as they didn't have anyway to determine longitude in that era, a lot.  Plus land travelers didn't have an accurate way of measuring distance in a wilderness, and seafarers estimates were highly variable.  But they still had charts, that showed sea monsters on the edges.
> 
> Charts of this period show California as an island, for instance.
> 
> I suspect that from what we know about erosion and accretion in just the last 100 years, any surmise about the location of anything on Rhetts Island or any other coastal location, would be highly speculative in the best of circumstances.



This is my point exactly. I am a map reader. I am not talking about some weekend orienteering class. I was a  soldier that lived and died by my map reading skills in combat. You better know where you are and where your troops are before things start falling out of the sky like bombs and Arty. Now back on topic. These folks were great navigators for the day. But to look at some 400 year old maps and make a pinpoint location. Maybe not. But Like I have said I am no expert but I want to see the facts before we give up one of the only spots in the state that is a waterefowl spot.


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## bigkga69 (Mar 6, 2014)

on the bright side, if they were to close it down, at least the tree ducks would be able to pass through during early teal season without being hammered by the experts...


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## The Longhunter (Mar 6, 2014)

killer elite said:


> This is my point exactly. I am a map reader. I am not talking about some weekend orienteering class. I was a  soldier that lived and died by my map reading skills in combat. You better know where you are and where your troops are before things start falling out of the sky like bombs and Arty. Now back on topic. These folks were great navigators for the day. But to look at some 400 year old maps and make a pinpoint location. Maybe not. But Like I have said I am no expert but I want to see the facts before we give up one of the only spots in the state that is a waterefowl spot.




One of the little asides that came out of the reports on this subject, is that part of the evidence includes reports of the French trading with the Indians via freight canoes as far as the vicinity of Athens.  

Not this particular example, but trade up and down the Oconee River has been a much debated point because it bears on the subject of navigability.  Some noted historians contend that there was regular trade in passengers and freight up and down the Oconee River to Athens.  Others say it never happened.  

The problem (much as with the problem with Rhetts Island) is that all accept that the Oconee River has 4 to 8 feet of silt in it, so that the original contours and flow are impossible to determine.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2014)

The problem when you  bring up early Navigation and  trade routes the record is shakey at best. I do not dought that there was a fort some where along the coast. But  for the folks that did the map study to say that Rhetts was the spot with just a map study of old maps is  a bit out there. Now That is not to say that there was not a fort at Rhetts. But until you dig and find proof that the French were there.  It is all a shot in the dark.  Anybody can make a claim and I am not saying that the folks that made the find are not dead on. Bottom Line where is the beef. Show me.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2014)

Rice on the Altamaha


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## The Longhunter (Mar 6, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Rice on the Altamaha



Probably the best historical narrative of rice farming on the Georgia coast before machinery and with slaves.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> Probably the best historical narrative of rice farming on the Georgia coast before machinery and with slaves.


Thanks i will pick it up.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2014)

Longhunter Do you live on the coast?


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## MudDucker (Mar 7, 2014)

If you study rice growing back in the early days of Georgia, you will be amazed at what they did with humans and mules.  They dug canals, installed water control devices and yes, even built up small islands where the crops could be gathered and transferred to waiting ships. 

Rhetts Island has been disturbed so many times, if anything resembling a fort was found, it would amazing luck.  The more likely site would be to the north in what is now Darrien, due to the higher ground closer to the ocean.


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## wray912 (Mar 7, 2014)

Mars said:


> I'm very aware that rice was cultivated here and that man made irrigation existed at that time, and thousands of years prior.
> 
> I am not saying that the fort is definitely there. But I am very familiar with the area and my opinion is that it would be a possible location for the fort. Why do you think the island was made by slave labor.



http://books.google.com/books?id=CX...altamaha rice plantations constructed&f=false

not sure how accurate but its the only thing i can find that states any thing at all about how they were built...the last paragraph on page 2...looks like it might be a good read overall


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## king killer delete (Mar 7, 2014)

MudDucker said:


> If you study rice growing back in the early days of Georgia, you will be amazed at what they did with humans and mules.  They dug canals, installed water control devices and yes, even built up small islands where the crops could be gathered and transferred to waiting ships.
> 
> Rhetts Island has been disturbed so many times, if anything resembling a fort was found, it would amazing luck.  The more likely site would be to the north in what is now Darrien, due to the higher ground closer to the ocean.


 This is so true. I have been up and down the coast and until you have seen the  canals and paddys first hand you just do not understand.


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## across the river (Mar 7, 2014)

Mars said:


> Guess my history degree was a waste.
> 
> Please explain to us how it was done and why its easier to build an island than use what's there.



To grow rice you need to control the water level, which means you need relatively flat land to start with.  The areas along the coast of South Carolina (and Georgia and Florida) were marsh and swamps.  This meant they were flat,  and had muddy soil that held water.   Once the cypress and other trees were cleared, dikes and canals were built to drain the swamp, and then rice could be planted and flooded again from the canals.  Nothing inland was really suitable.  Land above the fall line wasn't level and the typically sandy soil below the fall line would hold water like muddy soil.   With the loss of slave labor and introduction of machinery, south eastern rice production died.  As any duck hunter can tell you, rice production moved to the Alluvial valley along the mississippi river and to some extent the valley in California.  Agriculture already dominated theses ares and the land could be easy diked and pumped for rice production.  That is where rice is produced in the US today.


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## king killer delete (Mar 8, 2014)

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=8544249#post8544249


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## king killer delete (Mar 8, 2014)

I used Resection and Modified resection , My boy scout compass and a GPs with dead batterys, Several 400 years old maps along with a map of I95 and I have found that Ft Caroline is Next to The Waffle House right off I 95 at the Darien exit where the cafe use to be. And if you have been there you know what cafe I am talking about.


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## The Longhunter (Mar 8, 2014)

across the river said:


> To grow rice you need to control the water level, which means you need relatively flat land to start with.   .



Don't want to start an argument, but upland rice is a significant portion of the world's rice production, particularly in Asia.  It an be grown on about any terrain.  Rice is a staple of Nepal and grown on it's mountainsides. 

What really did in rice in the Carolinas and Georgia was the invention of the cotton gin, which made farming the uplands in cotton more profitable for the same amount of capital investment.  The famous Sea Island cotton which was grown on the high ground of the sea islands was not suitable for mechanical ginning.


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## across the river (Mar 8, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> Don't want to start an argument, but upland rice is a significant portion of the world's rice production, particularly in Asia.  It an be grown on about any terrain.  Rice is a staple of Nepal and grown on it's mountainsides.
> 
> What really did in rice in the Carolinas and Georgia was the invention of the cotton gin, which made farming the uplands in cotton more profitable for the same amount of capital investment.  The famous Sea Island cotton which was grown on the high ground of the sea islands was not suitable for mechanical ginning.




Essentially all of the rice planted in the US is flooded, because flooded rice gives higher yields.  Dry rice is planted in Asia now because people need to feed themselves, with varieties developed in the 20th century. The rice plantations in the South were primarily based on methods used by the slaves in Africa, which was primarily flooded rice. 
The cotton gin was created in the late 1700s, nearly a century before slavery was ended and rice production in the South ceased to exist.


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## king killer delete (Mar 8, 2014)

The cotton gin was designed on a rice plantation


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## injun joe (Mar 8, 2014)

But nobody working at the cafe by the Waffle House ever needed the cotton gin.


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## king killer delete (Mar 9, 2014)

injun joe said:


> But nobody working at the cafe by the Waffle House ever needed the cotton gin.


 I see you have been there.


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## injun joe (Mar 9, 2014)

Just trying to help support the coastal economy.


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## king killer delete (Mar 9, 2014)

injun joe said:


> Just trying to help support the coastal economy.


The place has closed


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## redneck_billcollector (Mar 9, 2014)

I am curious whether almost 500 years of hurricanes, droughts in GA and just plane ol' coastal erosion coupled with a sea island's ability to "migrate" if the site would even be on land now.  The Altamaha is a big river and its course has changed alot over the years to judge by all the oxbows on it......


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## king killer delete (Mar 9, 2014)

redneck_billcollector said:


> I am curious whether almost 500 years of hurricanes, droughts in GA and just plane ol' coastal erosion coupled with a sea island's ability to "migrate" if the site would even be on land now.  The Altamaha is a big river and its course has changed alot over the years to judge by all the oxbows on it......



Billcollector you hunt coastal water. People that live inland have no understanding of coastal waters. The gulf is bad but the Atlantic coast is a hole different  ball game. Channels change , creeks and rivers change over short periods of time. That is why I so skeptical of saying that the fort was at a pinpoint location. It is like I have said. If you have never read a map and I am not talking about a road map. A Topo map is a different ball game. A skill that has been made easy with a  modern GPS . Map study is something the military does before an operation. Sandbox and you got to understand that I have not done this in many years but the concepts does not change. Now I think Ft Caroline could have very well been some where on the coast of Georgia. For that matter the Flordia coast .But to take a 400 year old map and compare it with modern maps and say this is the pin point location and it was on Rhetts island is just a shot in the dark. With out the GPS modern map reading is hard. Now add 400 years and the instruments of that day. Yea it was on Rhetts. Now lets see if they stop hunting on Rhetts this year or for that matter the next 20 years. It all depends on the powers in office not if the fort was there or not.


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## The Longhunter (Mar 9, 2014)

killer elite said:


> The cotton gin was designed on a rice plantation



"Up the river" and not on the coast.


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## king killer delete (Mar 9, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> "Up the river" and not on the coast.


 Yes I know it well I have hunted that are since 1978. Like I said rice plantation.  But the waters around it are tidal. I live 7 miles from the historical marker .
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=8064


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## redneck_billcollector (Mar 9, 2014)

Read many a map Killer Elite....went through RIP (as the saying goes, back when it was tough, they don't even have RIP anymore, some other thing over at Benning now) back in 81 on HAAF .  Caught a hog on the map course there during RIP, we had a bar-b-q and beer party.


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## king killer delete (Mar 9, 2014)

redneck_billcollector said:


> Read many a map Killer Elite....went through RIP (as the saying goes, back when it was tough, they don't even have RIP anymore, some other thing over at Benning now) back in 81 on HAAF .  Caught a hog on the map course there during RIP, we had a bar-b-q and beer party.


Got it. You know what I mean RANGER


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## injun joe (Mar 10, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Billcollector you hunt coastal water. People that live inland have no understanding of coastal waters. The gulf is bad but the Atlantic coast is a hole different  ball game. Channels change , creeks and rivers change over short periods of time. That is why I so skeptical of saying that the fort was at a pinpoint location. It is like I have said. If you have never read a map and I am not talking about a road map. A Topo map is a different ball game. A skill that has been made easy with a  modern GPS . Map study is something the military does before an operation. Sandbox and you got to understand that I have not done this in many years but the concepts does not change. Now I think Ft Caroline could have very well been some where on the coast of Georgia. For that matter the Flordia coast .But to take a 400 year old map and compare it with modern maps and say this is the pin point location and it was on Rhetts island is just a shot in the dark. With out the GPS modern map reading is hard. Now add 400 years and the instruments of that day. Yea it was on Rhetts. Now lets see if they stop hunting on Rhetts this year or for that matter the next 20 years. It all depends on the powers in office not if the fort was there or not.


If you just look at the movement of land south of Gould's Inlet in the last 10 years, it gives you some perspective about what could have occurred over the last 400 years elsewhere along the coast.The location of the fort is a guess, at best.


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## king killer delete (Mar 10, 2014)

injun joe said:


> If you just look at the movement of land south of Gould's Inlet in the last 10 years, it gives you some perspective about what could have occurred over the last 400 years elsewhere along the coast.The location of the fort is a guess, at best.



Exactly


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## king killer delete (Mar 11, 2014)

We just have slow moving tides on the Atlantic coast and it does not change much. LOL. Look at the Gulf and all the storms they have had in recent times and tell me things do not move and change. If you have never been to the coast you just do not understand. I grew up in Mississippi right on the Mississippi River and the channel around Vicksburg and all up and down the river will change in a minute. I thought that the Mississippi was big time and it is. The third largest river in the world. But when it comes to the ocean its nothing. Thats why I try to tell folks that want to come to the the coast and hunt. Be watchful until you know what you are doing.


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## jdgator (Mar 11, 2014)

killer elite said:


> This is so true. I have been up and down the coast and until you have seen the  canals and paddys first hand you just do not understand.



Hey Mr. Expert, this is not South East Asia. Anyone who lives in the low country ought to know that we call them trunks and rice fields, not canals and paddys.


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## king killer delete (Mar 11, 2014)

jdgator said:


> Hey Mr. Expert, this is not South East Asia. Anyone who lives in the low country ought to know that we call them trunks and rice fields, not canals and [sic] paddys.


 My Bad.

I know what a rice trunk is and for your information most Vietnam vets refer to rice fields as rice paddys. It is a common vietnam war thing. Cause I waded enough of them. No matter what I call them you must admitt that I am right about the coast and cosatal water changes. Not an expert just a primary source. Now you want to talk south east Asia. I spent allot of years there.


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## king killer delete (Mar 11, 2014)

Remind me to tell yall about the time I killed Papasans water buffalo. That cost 75 bucks in 1972 money


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## jdgator (Mar 11, 2014)

I was just teasing you a little. It is clear to everyone that you know the coast and are passionate about waterfowling. And thank you for your service to this country.


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## king killer delete (Mar 11, 2014)

I knew you were but you are right we do call them trunks and fields. The trunk controls the water levels when you raise and lower them. Allot of  hunters do not know this.  I still call them rice paddys.


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## Chewbaka81 (Mar 11, 2014)

jdgator said:


> Hey Mr. Expert, this is not South East Asia. Anyone who lives in the low country ought to know that we call them trunks and rice fields, not canals and paddys.



You got it right. Killer's an expert.  I've been all over the coast and killed ducks with him. He told me where and when to be this past season and I killed two deer. The guys been hunting rice fields all over the south since before I was born. I've seen a pic of the buffalo and his medals from Vietnam.  I've heard him use the terms rice paddy and trunking field and canal interchangeably though in my book having waded through the rice paddies of Vietnam earns him the right to call them whatever he pleases. 

He is right about the coastal changes. What is dry land today can be underwater a year later.  500 years of storms, running water, wind and waves can erode a lot. If the fort was there, the site very likely could be under the water now.


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## rvhoran (Mar 13, 2014)

*Altered but not man made*

 Just to throw a few facts into the conversation  , Rhett's is not a man made island. Prior to rice cultivation and all of the modifications that came with it, Rhett's was forested. Probably looked like the west end of Broughton. The ditches are full of cypress and cedar trunks and stumps, some bigger than a truck hood. Slave labor did a lot to modify the island, but build it completely from the grassy marsh they did not.


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## MudDucker (Mar 13, 2014)

rvhoran said:


> Just to throw a few facts into the conversation  , Rhett's is not a man made island. Prior to rice cultivation and all of the modifications that came with it, Rhett's was forested. Probably looked like the west end of Broughton. The ditches are full of cypress and cedar trunks and stumps, some bigger than a truck hood. Slave labor did a lot to modify the island, but build it completely from the grassy marsh they did not.



Did anyone say Rhett's was man made?  Rhett's is too large to have been man made, but there are several small areas between Jax and Savannah where landings were built.  Some are referred to as island's by natives.  As for the logs, I don't know.  The last time they drained Rhett's to do a repair to the levies, I went and walked along the Darrien River levy and what I saw were old timbers that looked like they came from water control devices.  I did not walk the entire levy system though.


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## andyparm (Mar 13, 2014)

rvhoran said:


> Just to throw a few facts into the conversation  , Rhett's is not a man made island. Prior to rice cultivation and all of the modifications that came with it, Rhett's was forested. Probably looked like the west end of Broughton. The ditches are full of cypress and cedar trunks and stumps, some bigger than a truck hood. Slave labor did a lot to modify the island, but build it completely from the grassy marsh they did not.



You very well could be right (OP has same opinion). I made some assumptions above about how I thought it was built, but the entire area could have just been an extension of the swamp upriver. I still hold my opinion that it was never dry land that you could build a fort on though. I would imagine the area flooded at least periodically much like the rest of the Altamaha river swamp. I've never really thought about the possibility of the wooded area extending much further out with much less of the entire SE coast being marsh. Very interesting idea. Couple hundred years and a whole lot of man power can make some pretty significant changes! Speaking of that, in SELA a lot of the area including parts of the Biloxi Marsh used to be fresh water swamp that was completely overtaken by saltwater intrusion when the MRGO was built. I read up on it last year because I heard this was the case and was curious. 

http://mrgomustgo.org/mississippi-river-gulf-outlet/history/environmental-impacts.html

There is a ton more information about it if you google it. It was built less than 75 years ago and look what has happened to that area. I can't even imagine what the GA coast must have looked like before. 

I feel more strongly about my opinion that the fort is forever gone now that some new ideas have been presented. If the fort was in fact in the Darien area before rice cultivation took over SE GA. The possibility of finding even a shred of evidence now would be basically impossible. I'm going to do some more research on this topic. Y'all have got me interested!!


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## The Longhunter (Mar 13, 2014)

MudDucker said:


> Did anyone say Rhett's was man made?  Rhett's is too large to have been man made, but there are several small areas between Jax and Savannah where landings were built.  Some are referred to as island's by natives.  As for the logs, I don't know.  The last time they drained Rhett's to do a repair to the levies, I went and walked along the Darrien River levy and what I saw were old timbers that looked like they came from water control devices.  I did not walk the entire levy system though.



I used to hunt regularly on one of those man made islands north of Cumberland Island.  It was pure dredge material with a freshwater lake on it.  The owners were able to build a sizable hunting lodge and barn on what was mostly pure sand.


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## andyparm (Mar 13, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> I used to hunt regularly on one of those man made islands north of Cumberland Island.  It was pure dredge material with a freshwater lake on it.  The owners were able to build a sizable hunting lodge and barn on what was mostly pure sand.



I know exactly where you're talking about

These days dredging can build man made areas up that are WAY bigger than Rhett's ponds 1,2 and 3 combined. One such place is across from the Brunswick port. Most ducks I have ever seen in Georgia. Can't hunt it is the only problem!

Whatever Rhett's was before is anyone's guess. I'm inclined to agree that it once was swamp land that flooded with tide/rising river. What it is today was completely man made just like all of the rice fields were. Not necessarily built from scratch (obviously they didn't build coastal Georgia up from the ocean floor) but some type of land was cleared and diked with flood systems.

Someone do some real research and give us some answers. Come on college boys! Put that free time to good use!!


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## king killer delete (Mar 14, 2014)

I have hunted the area since 78 and I have never heard that it was man made.  The fields were built by slave labor and I am with Andy. River swamp and what I call high marsh. The high area on the place is  call Pine island is about the only high spot I know of. That area is what is called a house. But I would love to see them find that fort.


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## king killer delete (Mar 14, 2014)

andyparm said:


> I know exactly where you're talking about
> 
> These days dredging can build man made areas up that are WAY bigger than Rhett's ponds 1,2 and 3 combined. One such place is across from the Brunswick port. Most ducks I have ever seen in Georgia. Can't hunt it is the only problem!
> 
> ...


 How about the spoilage area Just north of Savannah across the Savannah river and east of the Savannah National wildlife refuge. Owned by the Corps and controlled by the Georgia DOT. Same as the Brunswick port. Tons of ducks and no hunting.


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## king killer delete (Apr 4, 2014)

http://thenewworld.us/original-fort-st-augustine-found-in-coastal-georgia/


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## Big Tip (Apr 11, 2014)

Wow.  Understood.


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## Chase4556 (Apr 11, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Navigational charts that are over 400 years old???????



You should know if there is a fort or not, didn't you draw those nav charts?


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## king killer delete (Apr 12, 2014)

Chase4556 said:


> You should know if there is a fort or not, didn't you draw those nav charts?


 Rut roo you told them I am old.


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