# Bedding a rifle ?'s



## olchevy (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok, I am simply wanting any advise or helpfull hints, tips etc. to help me with my first rifle bedding project. I have seen tons of little videos, and read tons of how to's, so I get the generall idea so now I just want to know if anyone out there can shead some helpfull light on this subject for me before I dive into it next week. Oh I dont know if it matters but the two stocks I want to do are both laminate stocks and both barrels are already free floated as of now. And just bedding for now I might try the pillars later down the road but I want to get the bedding part down first.
Thanks in advance!


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## WFL (Apr 18, 2010)

It is not that bad.  Brownells has a small kit that has all you need in it.  If you will give me a call I will help you with it.  We use this one all the time on the Marlin and Savage target guns.  The guys shoot 2000 to 3000 rounds a years and it holds up fine.
1-912-237-4360


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## olchevy (Apr 18, 2010)

I have got a kit from midwayusa that had got a lot of good reviews. It is the  Miles Gilbert Bedrock Glass Bedding kit, it is suppossed to have everything in it to do two rifles, although most of the reviews stated it was plenty enough to do 3-4 rifles.

One of my biggest questions though is how much wood do I remove(remember I'm working with laminate one of the rifles is the Rem. 700 pictured in my avatar)? I see some articles say just a little and have seen others that said up to a 1/4'' "to properly bed the rifle"

And why is it that you put tape over the bottom and the front of the Lug but not the back?

Forgive me if my newness to the subject is showing, even though I may understand how to do it, I want to know why it is done the way it is done.

Thanks in advance again.


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## WFL (Apr 18, 2010)

One thing you need to do is remove the coating they have on that stock. (just in the receiver area) I have one just like it.  I have not used  Miles Gilbert Bedrock Glass Bedding.  The one we use you have a liquid that you put on the action.  I put tape over any holes that the bedding can run into or clay like kids play with.  I put bolts in the action with the heads cut off so they are like studs to get action lined up with the holes in stock  paint then also.  You should not have to remove any wood if you do not much. (1/16 ) I put the blue painters tape along the top of the stock to keep the bedding from getting on it. I put the bedding in stock and the set the action in it.  Then with clamps on each end of action (not on barrel that will pull action down in front if barrel is floated)just put small amount of pressure to hold it.  After it dry the time they say it takes remove  the action.  Clean it all up and go PLAY.


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## Glassman (Apr 18, 2010)

How much wood you remove is relative to how much you have to work with. Get the stock cleaned up and all finish removed, a Dremel tool is handy for this.

You tape the front and sides of the recoil lug  so that it has room to come back out. If you don't , you will have glued your action into the stock.


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## olchevy (Apr 18, 2010)

Glassman said:


> How much wood you remove is relative to how much you have to work with. Get the stock cleaned up and all finish removed, a Dremel tool is handy for this.
> 
> You tape the front and sides of the recoil lug  so that it has room to come back out. If you don't , you will have glued your action into the stock.



Thanks, that answers one of my questions, and makes perfect sence now that I think about it!

I feel that I have plenty of wood to work with, I'll post a picture in a little while showing the inside of the stock as to give ya'll an idea of what I have to work with.

One thing I have been wondering is I see some people only go an inch or so after the action(under the barrel) and I see other people bed nearlly the whole length of the stock, the barrel is already free floated I can bring a piece of paper all the way till it touches the action with no snags what so ever, So do I need to bed it under the barrel any? If so how far do ya'll recomend I go.

Thanks agian for all the help, all of ya'll are helping me tremendously!


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## GAR (Apr 18, 2010)

*Bedding: Word of caution!*

Strongly recommend that you ensure that the recoil lug is actually square or a slight downward taper to it before bedding it. Causes big problems if it is not.

Also use a good release agent and coat all metal parts that are going to come into contact with the bedding material. 

Might sound weird but I use my wifes hair dyer to heat up the action and barrel shank area and then spray it with "PAM" as a release agent. I have found that this works really good. I did this on a custom built rifle using a P14 military action. You could see the British proof marks in the bedding compound. Now that was a skin tight bedding!

The blue tape is a well used tactic to prevent excess bedding compound from getting on the weapon. If you do get some excess above the stock line the best way I have found is to use a piece of plastic (think plastic putty knife) that has been sanded/ground down to a fine edge and use this to remove the excess. Does not scratch the barrel or action.

If by chance you do not properly apply release agent and the acton is stuck. Try putting into a large deep freeze for a couple of hours or longer. The metal will shrink just a little and you may be able to seperate them. The use of a rubber mallet can also be helpful.

GAR


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## Glassman (Apr 18, 2010)

Bedding the barrel channel is an odd subject. If you ask 10 peole their opinion, you'll get 10 different answers. I do not bed in front of the recoil lug myself. That is just my personal preference.


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## ScottD (Apr 18, 2010)

Ok a few tips.

On a laminated stock -(stable platform) you don't need to remove very much wood.  The bedding can be thinner since it is attached to a base that is already very stable.  If it was a walnut stock - i would remove enough so the bedding is at least 1/8" thick. On a laminate 1/16" thick is fine.

If the barrel is free floated - you can bed up to the front edge of the action.  But, I would bed about the first 1" or 2" of the barrel also.  My reasoning is that if you have problems with the shots walking as the barrel heats, its easy to dremel out that 1"-2" and try it again rather than rebed the whole thing.

Like the others said - tape the front (muzzle side) and the sides of the recoil lug - and especially the bottom of the lug (two thickness of tape there).  Electrical tape works well. 

For release agent  I prefer neutral shoe polish (colors are fine but may stain the wood).   Put release everywhere, action screw threads - trigger hangers, the entire action the recoil lug etc.  Also apply to the areas of the stock where the bedding is not supposed to be.

You didn't say what type of rifle - but there are always some tips specific to some types (I.E. savages typically don't get the tang bedded.)

i Like to use modeling clay to keep the bedding contained.  Like around the magazine well and at the barrel channel. also around the trigger hanger area.

I also like the method using surgical tubing - i still put in the action screws - but only finger tight.  The action is held to the stock by the wraps of tubing.

Also! don't remove all of the material under the action for bedding - leave a couple of pads so that when you pull the stock down into the glue, it will stop at the correct point.  I also put a couple of wraps of electrical tape on the barrel to make sure it gets bedded centered in the channel.

If you have a problem don't panic.  Clean up of the epoxy is easy with vinegar before it sets.  If you end up with a "glue in"  you can always get it apart with heat.  I took my benchgun apart just last month (glue in on purpose).  Take a household iron - turn to high - set it on top of the action.  In about 20 minutes it will pop right out.


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## olchevy (Apr 18, 2010)

ScottD said:


> Ok a few tips.
> 
> On a laminated stock -(stable platform) you don't need to remove very much wood.  The bedding can be thinner since it is attached to a base that is already very stable.  If it was a walnut stock - i would remove enough so the bedding is at least 1/8" thick. On a laminate 1/16" thick is fine.
> 
> ...



Ok it is a remington 700 adl .308 (one in avatar and the stock too), one thing I just thought about, my rifle is not blued its the factory rough flat black finish ,think really fine sandpaper, the action and the barrel is in this coating, Is this going to effect the bedding process at all? And any special do's or dont's on the remington 700 actions?


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## olchevy (Apr 18, 2010)

GAR said:


> Strongly recommend that you ensure that the recoil lug is actually square or a slight downward taper to it before bedding it. Causes big problems if it is not.
> 
> GAR



Square in reference to the action or in reference to the slot in the stock? If this is important I need to know what exactly you are talking about, thanks for the heads up.


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## Glassman (Apr 18, 2010)

What he means is that the bottom of the lug, the part going into the bedding compound, should be narrower than the part at the barrel.

Again so that it won't lock itself together


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## ScottD (Apr 19, 2010)

Remington 700's are easy - bed the entire action.  The finish on the action won't make any difference.


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## bighonkinjeep (Apr 19, 2010)

A couple of tips
I have a couple of long bolts that I ground the heads off that I use for alignment tools when bedding stocks.The same size as the action bolts only much longer. These protrude far enough through the stock that I can tap them with a hammer when it's time to pop it apart. You may need some vice grips to remove the bolts after tapping them but before seperating the stock and action.This is much easier and safer than using your factory action bolts.
 I have had to re do bedding that was too thin (skim bedding)because the thin material wasnt strong enough to stand up to recoil,so I take out maybe 1/16" with a dremel.I also use a small drill bit and drill very shallow  holes at opposing angles to lock the bedding in. 
Giant rubber bands are sometimes easier to locate than surgical tubing and work just fine to clamp the pieces together while they set up.
Use painters tape everywhere on the stock(outside the area being bedded) and release agent on ALL the metal. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and clean up is much easier than screw up.
There is lots of good info on the net so you may want to print some of it from a trusted source for reference during your project
Have fun.


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## leoparddog (Apr 19, 2010)

I've done two remingtons and just did my savage.

Here is a lesson I relearned last week.  Play-doh is not the same as modeling clay.  Get the modeling clay.  It compacts better, holds better and does not dry out.

My first Remingon 700, I didn't put enough under the barrel channel and it never really bedded there. I planned on only supporting the chamber.  I had to rebed it.


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## Larry Rooks (Apr 20, 2010)

It is not hard.  I would reccomend not using the release agent that comes with most bedding kits, and use paste
wax.  I have been using paste wax for years now and after about 100 jobs, no problem.  Just rug it on good with a small cleaning patch or finger tips, let it dry and start the bedding.
I use a rubber mallet to tap barreled action out once the required drying time is up, plus an extra hour or two (Just in
case the mixture takes lil longer)  I also always tape the barrel to make sure it is floated once the compound is dry


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## olchevy (Apr 20, 2010)

Well my plan is to do it either thursday or friday so we will see. Oh and I cant bed under my barrel anyways, my stock is trully free floated, after the end of the action the stock is hollowed out almost an inch down.And i talked to a gunsmith(who I know and trust) who has bedded many many many rifles, and he said people who put tape on the recoil lug are defeating the whole purpose of bedding a rifle he said it will give enough play to complete negate the reasoning in bedding it in the first place, he said just to make sure and coat everything with the release agent that came with the kit, and later down the road when I do more just use the wax.

Thankyou all for your help, pictures will follow when I get a chance to do it hopefully thursday or friday.I am about to mess with the trigger now and see if I cant remingtons heavy lawyer out of my trigger...lol


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## jglenn (Apr 20, 2010)

have to totally agree with  your gunsmith. I never put tape on my recoil lug and have Never stuck an action..if you stick an action you simply failed to use release agent or enough in the right places..  Or you didn't use modeling clay to keep the glass from going places it should not and hooking a piece of the action making it hard to get out. I do taper the recoil lug a bit on the bottom though.


One thing to remember is the bench rest folks glue their actions to the stock as a matter of course. and yes they can get them out.


one trick when you bead the action is to wrap the barrel  with some Blue tape to help center it in the barrel channel. makes a much nicer finish.. We also line the magazine area as well as the stock areas outside of the action with blue tape to help keep the glass from the area. simply makes it easier to clean up and get the action out.  When you tighten the action in the stock you normally will have excess glass pushed out. use a Q tip soaked in alchohol to clean up the excess.

car paste wax works well but is a bit hard to get into the small areas.  Pam is "ok" if you are bedding a plastic stock. It's a bit greasy for a wood stock and the formula has changed over the years.. Brownell's release agent works fine but  is is a pain to get off everything.


the best release agent I've found is.....Hornady's one shot... Yes a case lube...works like you wouldn't believe and being a spray is easy to get in the small areas.  Frankly don't use it for a case lube(Imperial wax is my choice)... 

the One shot simply washes off...

for beading compound I now use nothing but Devcon plastic steel.   tougher than anything I've seen.. Marine Tex is ok but softer as is JB weld. if you use Brownell's kit use the gel compound as it will stay put(as does Devcon) and not run all over the place.

lot's of opinions on where to bed but I have always put around a 2" pad supporting the chamber just ahead of the recoil lug..it works for me.

Tried the sugical wraps years ago and it works ok if you use it just around the action. Today I simply coat the action screws and use them along with the floor plate. I do remove the trigger though. 

using the action screw helps align  the entire action in the stock along with the barrel tape. Never had a screw that wasn't easy to remove.

P.S. as a matter of process I always bed  the action and free float the barrel.  99% of actions will shoot better that way IMHO and you can always go back to add the front barrel pad if you need it(never have)

are my actions a tight fit to the stock?   you bet but, a leather hammer will help them right out. are they hard to put back in the stock...  nope... and they fit like a glove.

it's not a tough task... Just remember the release agent.......


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## olchevy (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, he looked at my rifle yesterday and said the taper on it was fine and it should give me no problems what so ever, and if I did for some odd reason just to bring it on by. He is the best gunsmith i have ever met, I would post his buisness in the gunsmith section, but he asked me not to yet, because he already has over 6 months of work lined up and frankly is being overwhelemed with work right now, afterall he is one man...lol


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## ScottD (Apr 20, 2010)

I will have to disagree and say tape the recoil lug.

Here is a great link to brownells website with clear instructions and pictures of how to bed a rifle.
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-466.pdf

The idea of glass bedding is to give the action a stable platform on which to rest.  When you glass bed - do not tighten the action screws as this will induce stress on the action.  The object is to sit the action into the stock in its natural state.  When you put an action into a plain wood stock - tightening the action screws induces stress as the action is made to conform (somewhat) to the shape of the wood it rests upon.

In my opinion, the recoil lug is shaped like a wedge - if you glass bed and then set this action and recoil lug back in the bedding, it is a tight fit - as it should be.  But, when you tighten the action screws you want to pull the action "stress free" onto the bedding surface. The wedge shape of a recoil lug will induce stress by the very nature of its shape.

Now - being a benchrest shooter (and rifle builder) I have come to the conclusion that most of the "proven" stuff we do is worthless.  It will probably make no difference which way you do it.  If a problem arises - its pretty easy to dremel out some clearance on the sides and bottom of the lug.

By the way - in benchrest guns we don't even use a recoil lug - we glue (no release) directly to the stock.


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## olchevy (Apr 21, 2010)

ScottD said:


> By the way - in benchrest guns we don't even use a recoil lug - we glue (no release) directly to the stock.



Dont yall also epoxy the reticle in your scopes so no adjustment can be made?


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## jglenn (Apr 21, 2010)

Scott

on ours we dont' tighten the actions screws down much at all. if you bed a round action such as the Rem 700  without the action screws or guide rods, the action can move all over the place(left and right) leaving you with a recoil lug not dead vertical. It's always been my thought that you want the recoil lug straight up and down with the actions screws aligned in there holes or pillars...  You are dead right though that over tightening the action screw can in fact twist the action but then again when you actually put the rifle back together and tighten the screws you're doing the same thing. twisting the action... should a action be bedded as it will be finally installed ?? maybe   maybe not.

a bit different method for actions that have an intregral recoil lug such as Mausers or Winchesters.

I think Erinie the gunsmith had a neat video that shows how a Rem action can actually twist with the pressure applied by the screws. BTW I really like his bedding pillars and tools for wood stocks

just my way of doing it. All mine are  hunting weapons but I do Varmit rifles the same way and never had one that wouldn't shoot.
I can see where you would have a totally different technique for a target rifle that is glassed to the stock with no action screws..


probably as many methods out there as there are Gunsmiths or shooters that do it themselves.. Maybe we have a beer and talk about it when you stop by with your project .... ...ok,....two beers and I'm buying


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## ScottD (Apr 21, 2010)

Last thing I bedded was a CZ 452.  The recoil lug is part of the rear action screw mount.  The lug is basically a 3/4" round by 3/4" tall bushing threaded for the rear action screw.

I had no idea how to bed it - so i took a stab and bedded it - no tape - just bedded as is.  Seems to shoot great so i must have done ok.  At least it is easier than a Ruger M77 with the slanted front action screw.  And i will never again try to do a Ruger #1 - i still have nightmares.

Yes i shoot a "frozen" scope on one of my Benchguns - Its a leupold 36x with the erector tube epoxied to the scope tube.  Its mounted on an adjustable mount.  A benchgun is pretty easy to glue in - no action screws - no recoil lug.  There is a pesky rule about maintaining a certain minimum angle between the center-line of the bore and the toe of the stock.  Basically it means the action cannot have much upward tilt in the stock. measuring the angle while gluing the action to the stock can be a little trying - but the actual glue in is easy.

A few more tips before you start - 

You said you are not using pillars - which is fine.  Depending on how loose the action screws fit in the stock holes - you may want to put a couple of wraps of tape around them to insure they are somewhat centered up in the holes while doing the bedding.  Just a thought.

put release agent on everything - once you  are sure everything is coated....go back and put it on again just in case.  The reason we all stress this part, is because epoxy is strangely attracted to and will migrate to any part of the rifle you forgot to put release on.  You can guess how we all know this.

Once you are done - do not let cleaning solvents get to the bedding  - use a good bore guide while cleaning.

And take before and after pics - so we can see.

JGlenn - I'll supply the beer - I'll let you know as soon as the receiver gets back.


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## olchevy (Apr 21, 2010)

Yep, the whole thing that worries me on installing the pillars, is how would I get it perfectly centered on all 3 axis to insure it would bolt up correctly. Im sure its simple too, I just dont understand how someone can line up all 3 axis perfectley..... And I am hessitant on drilling out laminated wood, I have seen some bad spliting and chipping on lamanated wood(non-gunstocks) in the past caused by drilling.

Should I wait till I can get some pillars and then figure out how to do it, then go at it?

I mean it is just a hunting/ play rifle. I just have never had a rifle this accurate before, and now Im trying to get smaller and smaller groups I can deffinetley see why yall get into bench rest shooting it is addicting(consistentley).And plus as I stated in earlier threads I plan on having this rifle forever to someday hand down, If for some horrible reason I had to sell my guns, this one would be last of a long list.....whenever I get more serious in the long range shooting it will be going in something like an HS persecion stock.But seeing how the furthest range I have where I live is about 300 yards, I am not able to see its true potential. One of my summer projects is to clear out a new catacornered shooting lane which should be 500(maybe 600) yards, but thats a good bit of trees and brush I got to clear out(Our property is basically thick hardwoods and pines your lucky If you can see a spot more than 100 yards from you out there.


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## bighonkinjeep (Apr 21, 2010)

Woah there fella, If it's the most accurate rifle you've ever owned it may be one of those rare examples where the factory got it right. If all the harmonics are in balance it may be best to leave it alone. I have a factory Savage 116 in 30-06 that will put a 10 shot group of less than 1/2" on paper at 100yds and I would not dream of doing anything to it to screw up the harmonics. ( I did adjust the trigger) Every now and then you get a really good one, dont fix what aint broke. Find a beater to hone your skills on and tinker with. 
PS The long alignment bolt trick works for installing pillars too.


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## ScottD (Apr 21, 2010)

Don't wait on pillars - go ahead and bed it without.  Yes in some rare case it could shoot worse after you bed it.

But leaving it stock?  Where's the fun in that?

Laminated stocks are fine - some even hold to the theory that laminated wood stocks are better than fiberglass stock because the wood dampens the vibrations better.  My 30BR Benchgun has a Shehane laminate wood stock on it right now.


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## rayjay (Apr 21, 2010)

This is the basic method I use 

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

I made some sleeves that fit onto the action screws and take up the clearance between the od of the screws and the ID of the pillars [ these sleeves are 22 mag cases with the rim cut off  ].


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## olchevy (Apr 21, 2010)

Bighonkinjeep Now you have me worried........Anyways I will still bed it but it deffintley will not be tommorow, I will be at school(gordon college) for roughly 13-14 hours straight......I will get there at 0800 and wont leave till around 2200....so it will be a LONG DAY tommorow....


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## olchevy (Apr 21, 2010)

ScottD said:


> But leaving it stock?  Where's the fun in that?



Ha, Stock!........So far this rifle has had its barrel cut down to 20''(originally a whopping 26'') and threaded 5/8-24. right now it is wearing a phantom 5C2 "aggressive" flash suppressor(ar-10). I got a 1 piece scope mount base, and right now it is wearing it's new Bushnell 3200 10x40 milldot scope with the target turrents(clearest scope I have ever owned, but then again it is my first nice scope). I upgraded it to a metal trigger guard because I couldnt stand the plastic one it came with(remember its an adl). And I got its laminated stock its wearing now......and much more to come on it someday...


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## cstgsmith (Apr 22, 2010)

Hey olchevy......The way we were taught in school (in the early 80's), was not to tape the recoil lugs.  You want the action tight in the bedding.  And we bedded the chamber area of the barrel.  Just make sure the action is completely seated in the stock.  This worked for me very well over the years.  I took a S&W 1500 .270 that would only shoot 2 inch groups and turned it into a 1/2 shooting rifle, just by bedding it.
I'm not saying this is the only way to do it....but it has proven to work for me on several different rifles.


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