# Evolution, What do you believe?



## chambers270 (Jan 15, 2008)

I was in class today (College) and the teacher was explaining how we evolved from apes and such and I got to wondering how many people believe this idea.

This is not meant to be a religous poll or to bash on certain ideas just to see the stats.

Thanks
Chris


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## Muddyfoots (Jan 15, 2008)

The Bible for me.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

I believe God CREATED evolution and Man thru evolution.

Why is that not an option??


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## dawg2 (Jan 15, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I believe God CREATED evolution and Man thru evolution.
> 
> Why is that not an option??



I am thinking that might be #2....


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## MonroeTaco (Jan 15, 2008)

We are a monkey-alien hybrid. Didn't see that on the poll.


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## 243Savage (Jan 15, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I believe God CREATED evolution and Man thru evolution.
> 
> Why is that not an option??



I've often wondered that myself.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jan 15, 2008)

i believe God created man just as we are today (in his own image.)  If anything, we have devolved from that state.  I do believe in natural selection and adaptation, but I do not believe in entirely new species evolving from others.


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## REMINGTON710 (Jan 15, 2008)

God created all, we have evolved from the state of which we were created, but no were not from monkeys


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## Early Riser1 (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm with Doc Holiday on this one. I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution!


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## Huntin Dad (Jan 15, 2008)

I believe Genesis sums it up rather well.  The Bible says "God created man" NOT, God created an ape and then Adam evolved from ape.

_ Gen 2:19  And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof._

Thats what I believe!


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## chambers270 (Jan 15, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> i believe God created man just as we are today (in his own image.)  If anything, we have devolved from that state.  I do believe in natural selection and adaptation, but I do not believe in entirely new species evolving from others.



I agree with you on that 100%


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## chambers270 (Jan 15, 2008)

If you think God created man then pick option 3, if you think we evolved pick from option 1 or 2. 

I figured it had to be one or the other, either we came from another creature or we were created by God.


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## RonRon (Jan 15, 2008)

*Apes*

If we evolved from apes...why are there still apes?


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## shdw633 (Jan 15, 2008)

When I see a scientist create a tree from nothing or an animal from nothing then I will consider evolution.  Realistically nothing has "evolved", even a dog for the last how many thousands of years that he has been around man has not figured out how to improve his own life.  A deer has been hunted for thousands of years and has not figured out how to go on the offensive so where is evolution in these examples.  When you go outside and look at the sky just think, how in the world could this just "happen".  Let scientists have their theories, I'll stick with the sure thing......GOD.


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## chambers270 (Jan 15, 2008)

I always ask if we evolved from apes, what did they evolve from and why are there still apes. But it always ends like this, I ask what did it all start from and they say the atom and I say who created the atom?


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## gunsbillygun (Jan 15, 2008)

shdw633 said:


> When I see a scientist create a tree from nothing or an animal from nothing then I will consider evolution.  Realistically nothing has "evolved", even a dog for the last how many thousands of years that he has been around man has not figured out how to improve his own life.  A deer has been hunted for thousands of years and has not figured out how to go on the offensive so where is evolution in these examples.  When you go outside and look at the sky just think, how in the world could this just "happen".  Let scientists have their theories, I'll stick with the sure thing......GOD.



im with you.
prase God and Amen to that!


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## NOYDB (Jan 15, 2008)

First a correction. We did not evolve from apes. We and apes evolved from a common ancester.

Evolution, like gravity just is. It doesn't matter if you believe in it, or like it.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

shdw633 said:


> When I see a scientist create a tree from nothing or an animal from nothing then I will consider evolution.  Realistically nothing has "evolved", even a dog for the last how many thousands of years that he has been around man has not figured out how to improve his own life.  A deer has been hunted for thousands of years and has not figured out how to go on the offensive so where is evolution in these examples.  When you go outside and look at the sky just think, how in the world could this just "happen".  Let scientists have their theories, I'll stick with the sure thing......GOD.



First, Just a reminder: I'm a God fearing man who believes that GOD created evolution.

And to answer your questions:  The reason that dogs have not improved their "life" is because humans have generally controlled their breeding and poupulation growth.  If a trait shows up that a human does not like, they dispose of the dog and it is not passed on.

As far as the deer:  Deer have reached a homostasis. That is: They reproduce as fast as they die. Some animals evolve on the preditor side, some evolve on the "Im dinner" side.  If the creature can survive long just long enough to make one more of itself before IT breeds, the species is stable.  It's not like the deer are having a convention to see who to weed out like Hitler did.  Evalution takes time and typically a drastic change in location or situation for the changes to happen.

Typically to see how things change and evolve on a more dramatic basis, you need two of the same creatures to be separated or for the situation to change.  Take for example the two types of squirls that live on opposite sides of the grand canyon.  Very different creatures that have the same background genetically

OR, on a local note:  Check out the shoal bass.  They are a genitic mutatoin that probably happened to the spot, but they thrived very well in the climite of the Flint river.

Typically, in stable climate and condtions the "birth defects" that may actually make the species stonger are washed out with the stable genes...but if there is a major change in climate or situation that the stable gene provided homostasis in, any variations to future generations that will help with the new climate/situation will take hold in the poputation.

_In other words- unless the situation changes, evalution of the species is not likely- it is a response to the change of the surroundings._

The reason that humans became white is because man evolved out of africa.  Black protects the skin from the sun (think of why you tan).  Humans moved up north and had to cover up because it was cold.  Problem was:  Our bones, in a nut shell become stonger with calcium and vitiam D- which your body can make IF it gets sun (the D part)...

so the humans with lighter skin had stonger bones and did not die before reporductive age...the dark skin that had to be covered up did not recieve enough light to make bones stong....which is how the black skin turned white...look to the far north in sweden and see the fairest skin of them all.


Again- I believe God has a hand in it all.


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## Bownly (Jan 15, 2008)

Too many animals are designed with body parts in the same location not to overlook evolution or at least some type of evolvement.  Two ears, eyes, a nose on the head to the neck, back and down to the legs. Why so many animals with the same common denominator? I'll say none of the above from the choices.  When you look at the size of the universe, we may just be in the body of god like sperm (a living cell with a purpose) are to men.  Do some search on sun-to-planet-to-universe size ratios and solar systems beyond.  You'll find we are less than a speck in relation to the same microscopic organisms we look at with a microscope.


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## DS7418 (Jan 15, 2008)

cavemen makes the most since to me


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## PWalls (Jan 15, 2008)

God created man and all the animals. They came into existence when He spoke it. No random chance act that took place over billions of years. No "evolution" from some simple single cell organism.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

PWalls said:


> God created man and all the animals. They came into existence when He spoke it. No random chance act that took place over billions of years. No "evolution" from some simple single cell organism.




Why can't God use his own laws, IE evolution and gravity and momentum to  create man?

People were having this SAME TYPE of discussion several hundred years ago about the earth rotating around the sun.

Many people (and the church) said the believed in GOD and not that the earth rotated around the Sun...the sun and everthing else rotated around the earth, since that's were God's ultimate creature, man was.

I don't know about you, but I don't think that there is any proof that God does not exist because the earth revolves around the sun....or that there is evoution to create man...God made the laws to develop his way.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

God made man.


Since we've been down this road before, here's some of the threads...


http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=999447

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=101320

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=139971


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

In other words:

Evolution does not nessicarly = random chance

There is no rational argument that can be made that it proves that there is no God.

God created evolution, like he created gravity, the earth, and everthing else.


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## PWalls (Jan 15, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Why can't God use his own laws, IE evolution and gravity and momentum to  create man?
> 
> People were having this SAME TYPE of discussion several hundred years ago about the earth rotating around the sun.
> 
> ...



Sorry, can't help you there. I am one of those Bible-thumpers. I am too close-minded to believe stuff that ain't in the Bible.


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## cmghunter (Jan 15, 2008)

For me umm
  Only one answer GOD


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## Sugar Hill Scouter (Jan 15, 2008)

And God said, "let us make man in our own image..."


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Sorry, can't help you there. I am one of those Bible-thumpers. I am too close-minded to believe stuff that ain't in the Bible.



If God lead man to write EVERY LITTLE DETAIL OF THE WOLRD in the Bible how fun would it be to explore anything...or to invent something...or to discover anything...since you already knew it.

One of God's greatest gifts, next to love, is discovery, exploration and invnetion of what He created...

Details are left out...for past and present...for a reason.

I'm a "bible thumper" too.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

Another thought/in other words:

It did not say: Using a cardiovasular system to fuel the body and remove waste, lungs to provide O2 and remove c02 so that the body can utilize food fuel, a immune system, liver....yada yada yada.... He created man..

Do you believe you have a heart and lungs just cause its not in the bible?


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## PWalls (Jan 15, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Another thought/in other words:
> 
> It did not say: Using a cardiovasular system to fuel the body and remove waste, lungs to provide O2 and remove c02 so that the body can utilize food fuel, a immune system, liver....yada yada yada.... He created man..
> 
> Do you believe you have a heart and lungs just cause its not in the bible?




God's Word says He created man in His own image. I don't think God is a single cell organism which is where evolution says we started. He formed man from the dust and breathed life into him. Nowhere does those words imply some millions of years process.


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## Bill Mc (Jan 15, 2008)

Actually, evolution is occurring.

Many humans are evolving into monkeys.

where do you fit in?


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## FishFanatic (Jan 15, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Evolution, like gravity just is. It doesn't matter if you believe in it, or like it.




There is a whole lot of proof for gravity.  Undeniable proof.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

PWalls said:


> God's Word says He created man in His own image. I don't think God is a single cell organism which is where evolution says we started. He formed man from the dust and breathed life into him. Nowhere does those words imply some millions of years process.



Dust made single cell organisms...which lead to man.


"Breathed" means "to take a breath" and "inspired or created"

For instance...take the line from C.S. Lewis "Myths are lies breathed by silver" (in other words- power inspired people to make myths so that they could create power for themselves by creating a way to worship their myths)

And God created  man with his insperation of the earth that he created...not to be confused with breathing in.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh, and God does not need to breath O2 and exhale Co2 like we do...otherwise he is confined to earth and some other unknow hypothetical planets


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## JerkBait (Jan 15, 2008)

I wish this thread wouldnt have been started. I didnt know there were so many misled people around.


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## JBowers (Jan 15, 2008)

Well, an egg and a sperm unite to become one cell, that one cell evolves into two, two to four and so on and so forth until it evolves into  what it becomes...


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## elfiii (Jan 15, 2008)

JBowers said:


> Well, an egg and a sperm unite to become one cell, that one cell evolves into two, two to four and so on and so forth until it evolves into  what it becomes...



Uh Oh. There goes your "theory" Phillip!  You can't argue the science on this one. I do believe Mr. Bowers has you in "check".


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## Bill Mc (Jan 15, 2008)

> Well, an egg and a sperm unite to become one cell, that one cell evolves into two, two to four and so on and so forth until it evolves into what it becomes...



I think not "evolve" but rather "grows"

And I don't think anything is an "accident"


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## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

FishFanatic said:


> There is a whole lot of proof for gravity.  Undeniable proof.



And there is a whole lotta proof for evolution, and despite what the deniers claim, no exceptions, none.

The more information and data they gather the more it's supported. Everything from DNA to fossils and every other field of study all comes back and supports evolution.

If you really, truly believe in God, you shouldn't argue with Him. This is the world and we are the people He made. What ever we discover about how He did it, should be just fine with us.


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## Bruz (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I believe God CREATED evolution and Man thru evolution.
> 
> Why is that not an option??



+1 The two are not exclusive of one another. 

Robert


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## GAnaturalist (Jan 16, 2008)

What about dogs, horses, cattle, fruit trees, vegtables, etc. etc. ? We have seen them change over time. My bluetick hound was a French Gascon hound at one time, and before that a wolf ! Yes, we changed them, but still they have changed or "evolved", and I don't see how that can be argued. We also see other organisms change over time without the hand of man, such as, small organisms, i.e., bacteria, protist, etc.

That was the very short version. So they evolved, but not us, or are there people out there that still think those animals have not changed over time either ? wait for it.....


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## GAnaturalist (Jan 16, 2008)

Oh, that Gar in my avatar can breath under the water or above the water. It has a pelvic grindle, sternum, front leg bones, rear leg bones, front and rear metatarsals and phalanges, and looks a little like a aligator with fins. But if you skin them you will see that they are not just "fins", but a complete set of the above mentioned. 

and oddly enough....taste like more like aligator meat than fish. Just some food for thought, lol.


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## jody7818 (Jan 16, 2008)

Bill Mc said:


> Actually, evolution is occurring.
> 
> Many humans are evolving into monkeys.
> 
> where do you fit in?



I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading this thread.  And all you have to do is read the paper or watch tv to find out.  Or...if you're ever in the Atlanta area, you'll see plenty of evidence there.


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## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

Bill Mc said:


> Actually, evolution is occurring.
> 
> Many humans are evolving into monkeys.
> 
> where do you fit in?



That's kinda insulting......


to Monkeys.


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## shdw633 (Jan 16, 2008)

GAnaturalist said:


> What about dogs, horses, cattle, fruit trees, vegtables, etc. etc. ? We have seen them change over time. My bluetick hound was a French Gascon hound at one time, and before that a wolf ! Yes, we changed them, but still they have changed or "evolved", and I don't see how that can be argued. We also see other organisms change over time without the hand of man, such as, small organisms, i.e., bacteria, protist, etc.
> 
> That was the very short version. So they evolved, but not us, or are there people out there that still think those animals have not changed over time either ? wait for it.....




And why was your bluetick hound a wolf at one time, becasue a scientist said it was?  If that was the case than what was the wolf during that time?  Your dog was a dog and has always been a dog.  Name it anything you want and it is still a dog, maybe a different breed due to different strains of dogs getting together but still a dog.


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## Oldstick (Jan 16, 2008)

chambers270 said:


> If you think God created man then pick option 3, if you think we evolved pick from option 1 or 2.
> 
> I figured it had to be one or the other, either we came from another creature or we were created by God.



I agree with FishinAddict.  Created by God and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  And neither is the rest of the creation account in Genesis in confict with the theory of evolution.


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## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

More correction.

Dogs did not evolve from wolves. They were bred from wolves. All domestic animals were bred by humans from their wild stock. (same for plants).

Evolution: from Wikipedia - evolution is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. These traits are the expression of genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences between organisms. New traits can also come from transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population, either non-randomly through natural selection or randomly through genetic drift.

Natural selection is a process that causes heritable traits that are helpful for survival and reproduction to become more common in a population, and harmful traits to become more rare. This occurs because individuals with advantageous traits pass on more copies of these heritable traits to the next generation.[1][2] Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of those variants best-suited for their environment.[3] In contrast, genetic drift produces random changes in the frequency of traits in a population. Genetic drift arises from the role chance plays in whether a given individual will survive and reproduce.

One definition of a species is a group of organisms that can reproduce with one another and produce fertile offspring. However, when a species is separated into populations that are prevented from interbreeding, mutations, genetic drift, and the selection of novel traits cause the accumulation of differences over generations and the emergence of new species.[4] The similarities between organisms suggest that all known species are descended from a common ancestor (or ancestral gene pool) through this process of gradual divergence.[1]

There is a difference between having an opinion and having an informed opinion.


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## Pop (Jan 16, 2008)

*Big Bang Theory*

I most definately believe in the big bang theory























GOD SAID BANG AND IT WAS ALL CREATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

Although some may argue the fact but I did not come from a ape,monkey or Clyde.


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## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

GAnaturalist said:


> What about dogs, horses, cattle, fruit trees, vegtables, etc. etc. ? We have seen them change over time. My bluetick hound was a French Gascon hound at one time, and before that a wolf ! Yes, we changed them, but still they have changed or "evolved", and I don't see how that can be argued. We also see other organisms change over time without the hand of man, such as, small organisms, i.e., bacteria, protist, etc.
> 
> That was the very short version. So they evolved, but not us, or are there people out there that still think those animals have not changed over time either ? wait for it.....






They are not human.

The are the foul of the air and the beast of the feild.


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## Oldstick (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> In other words:
> 
> Evolution does not nessicarly = random chance
> 
> ...




Agree and furthermore my opinion about evolution and God is even more startling to most folks.  If "they" ever somehow do prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the process described by evolutionary theory, then "they" will have unknowingly proven beyond a shadow of doubt the existence of God.  

The reason IMO is that it is statistically and mathematically impossible for the first living organism to have come together and formed from random events.   Even the most primitive living cell is way too complicated and by mathematical and logical extrapolations, there had to be an "outside force" involved.


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## Palmetto (Jan 16, 2008)

Sugar Hill Scouter said:


> And God said, "let us make man in our own image..."




"us" ? "our" ??

Who was he hanging out with?


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Palmetto said:


> "us" ? "our" ??
> 
> Who was he hanging out with?



Father/Son/Holy Ghost


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## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Why can't God use his own laws, IE evolution and gravity and momentum to  create man?
> 
> .



1: 25  And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 


I do not see where he said anything about making men after the kind of any animal.


: 26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 
GEN  1: 27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 
GEN  1: 28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 
GEN  1: 29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 
GEN  1: 30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 
GEN  1: 31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 
GEN  2: 1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 
Looks to me like he gave us dominion over all things NOT human. How can you EVOLVE if have rule over that in which some have said to evolve from???


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## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

One more thing if you believe the word of God then there it is in the above post.


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## JBowers (Jan 16, 2008)

Bill Mc said:


> I think not "evolve" but rather "grows"
> 
> And I don't think anything is an "accident"


 
Dry sponges grow when placed in water.  Life doesn't grow; it evolves.  When something grows it gets larger or taller but doesn't change per se.  The process I succintly desribed is one of gradual development - to come forth gradually into being or into more highly organized state; or evolve.

If all life just *grew* from the moment of sperm and egg union then all life would be nothing more than one cell of various sizes oozing around.  But, life doesn't.  Life, whether it be human, bird, snake, fish, etc., evolves gradually into highly organized mutli-cell beings from a single cell created at the union of an egg and sperm.

As for your accident statement, I checked with my parents long ago and was asured that I was no accident.  However, I am not certain that applies to everyone.  That is for each and own to find out for themselves.


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## pnome (Jan 16, 2008)

Evolution and Natural Selection are the best explanation around for how humans got here or how any particular species or animal came about.

Evolution explains only what has happened since life on Earth started.  It does not explain how life on Earth started.  That is still an open question.


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## potsticker (Jan 16, 2008)

Im sorry, the thought that i or my family derived from an ape is childish. Does anyone think that the General Robert E. Lee was derived from an ape? Preposterous!


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## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

*Too Smart For Your Own Good*

If (some of)  you people say you believe in the bible, and are god-fearing, then how come you still consider evolution? Gods word is plain and simple. Maybe thats why people who dont think they are smarter than they really are take heed to his word and grow from it. FishingAddict your problem is that you think you are smarter than you are. Do not claim to beleive in Gods word and then make up your own part by saying that after god created earth, animals, and man- then man evolved into what we are today. thats not what my bible says. god created man and then they had babies and then more and more came. god created every living thing we see on earth.  Dont try and tell me that the cheetah developed spots to be more camoflauged. no. The cheetah was created with his spots and since he has them he uses them to his advantage. Since he has them, he uses them to his advantage. No animal sat around for generations thinking "i wish i had spots, i wish i had spots, i wish i had spots" until they got them. if you are so smart then why isnt evolution still occuring, and WHRERES THE "MISSING LINK"? When people start to think they are so smart then they start to question everything that is too plain and simple to question. god created earth, animals, and man. PLAIN and SIMPLE. theres nothing to look deeper into, nothing to question about that. If you believe in god and have faith in his word then thats all there is to it. you do not have to be a genius like FishingAddict and research it. ITS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! If you question gods word then you have little or no faith in it. 

If you believe in god then you beleive he created you. no evolution. 

If you beleive in evolution then dont mix god in with it because that combination would define the word OXYMORON.



oxymoron  

1657, from Gk. oxymoron, noun use of neut. of oxymoros (adj.) "pointedly foolish," from oxys "sharp" (see acrid) + moros "stupid." Rhetorical figure by which contradictory terms are conjoined so as to give point to the statement or expression; the word itself is an illustration of the thing. Now often used loosely to mean "contradiction in terms."

God created us. we are born, we grow (not evolve) until a certain age then once weve grown (not evolved) we begin to die.  begin to grow, grow, start to die, die. theres no evolving 

I know i know thats too simple for some of you geniuses around here. 

God didnt create your brain either you evolved it cause it was necessary so you could clarify to all the less knowledgeable people exactly how we got here. 

 It sad that so many of you just lost my respect. I hope yall do not teach your kids this crap.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> 1: 25  And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
> 
> 
> I do not see where he said anything about making men after the kind of any animal.
> ...



I don't get it.  It says he made the things on earth, then made man, and then told man: check out what I made for you- it's all yours, but respect it.

Again- the process of how he made man is not there.  But why is it so propsoteros to think that he used a couple genetic mutiations from apes to hominid (now extinct) to a couple others I can't remeber (all extint- which is good, cause Im sure the liberals would want us to feed and cloth them cause they are "almost" human) ....to man?

Are you tellling me you have the right to tell God he's not allowed to do it that way because that's not how this idea set up shop in your head?


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## Oldstick (Jan 16, 2008)

And let me clarify my position some.  I do know that I am a Christian and I do NOT fully buy into all the ideas that are sometimes associated with the theory of evolution.  

My point is that I just don't see how some of you are so dead sure that it is all an impossibility, simply by reading the short creation story in Genesis.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> If (some of)  you people say you believe in the bible, and are god-fearing, then how come you still consider evolution? Gods word is plain and simple. Maybe thats why people who dont think they are smarter than they really are take heed to his word and grow from it. FishingAddict your problem is that you think you are smarter than you are. Do not claim to beleive in Gods word and then make up your own part by saying that after god created earth, animals, and man- then man evolved into what we are today. thats not what my bible says. god created man and then they had babies and then more and more came. god created every living thing we see on earth.  Dont try and tell me that the cheetah developed spots to be more camoflauged. no. The cheetah was created with his spots and since he has them he uses them to his advantage. Since he has them, he uses them to his advantage. No animal sat around for generations thinking "i wish i had spots, i wish i had spots, i wish i had spots" until they got them. if you are so smart then why isnt evolution still occuring, and WHRERES THE "MISSING LINK"? When people start to think they are so smart then they start to question everything that is too plain and simple to question. god created earth, animals, and man. PLAIN and SIMPLE. theres nothing to look deeper into, nothing to question about that. If you believe in god and have faith in his word then thats all there is to it. you do not have to be a genius like FishingAddict and research it. ITS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! If you question gods word then you have little or no faith in it.
> 
> If you believe in god then you beleive he created you. no evolution.
> 
> ...





Bro- WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM!

There is NOT ONE PART OF MY STATEMENT THAT GOES AGAINST THE WORD!!

Please don't get upset about it.

Please show me where it says that it is against God's word to believe in evalution.

Evolving does not happen in an instant.  It takes thousand and millions of years to become evident.  It does not happen in the being ...but at the point of reproduction- which yes, God created as well.

Again- Im not questioning God's word- what I have said says nothing against it. Just like the astronimers who discovered that earth rotates around the sun....but were banned from the church.  Where does it say that the sun rotates around the earth?  No where, but the church had made ASSUMPTIONS of what it said, and in THIER mind (not Gods) it was against Gods will to believe in such things...
Much like evalution.

I say it's impossible for humans to get here without being "breathed" by God- he just may have done it a bit differently than you ASSUMED.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Oh, and God and Evolution are not an oxymoron.

That's like saying God and Gravity are an oxymoron.

Oh- and how do you know how smart I think I am??


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

potsticker said:


> Im sorry, the thought that i or my family derived from an ape is childish. Does anyone think that the General Robert E. Lee was derived from an ape? Preposterous!



naw, there were about 20,000 generations in the middle.

Way to short for that to happen with out help from God.


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I don't get it.  It says he made the things on earth, then made man, and then told man: check out what I made for you- it's all yours, but respect it.
> 
> Again- the process of how he made man is not there.  But why is it so propsoteros to think that he used a couple genetic mutiations from apes to hominid (now extinct) to a couple others I can't remeber (all extint- which is good, cause Im sure the liberals would want us to feed and cloth them cause they are "almost" human) ....to man?
> 
> Are you tellling me you have the right to tell God he's not allowed to do it that way because that's not how this idea set up shop in your head?




: 7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

This is very simple and easy to understand and should answer your question about how man was formed.

There did not have to be a process, why is it so hard for you to grasp that God has the power to create or destroy WITHOUT explaination???

Then you may ask how can I believe that he can create or destroy with one? 

I have faith to believe _in my heart_   that he is all powerful.


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

greers57 said:


> And let me clarify my position some.  I do know that I am a Christian and I do NOT fully buy into all the ideas that are sometimes associated with the theory of evolution.
> 
> My point is that I just don't see how some of you are so dead sure that it is all an impossibility, simply by reading the short creation story in Genesis.



Ill tell you why...its in my heart not so much in my mind.


----------



## Randy (Jan 16, 2008)

I believe in evolution but I believ tha is the wat God made man therefore I could not directly vote in the poll.

I think one thing that gets christians is their belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.  And if you trace back the generations through the Bible that the earth can only be roughly 6000 years old.  Believeing in evolution would mean that the very begining of the Bible is in error.  I happen to believe that God just did not tell the early writters about evolution and the fact that the earth is billons of years old.  For one thing it has NOTHING to do with salvation and secondly it would have gotten so confusing trying to explain DNA and such to such ignorant people at the time.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Here is a thought:

You die and go to heaven because you are saved.

You ask: "God, how did you create man" - not you obviously- since you know you came from your mother. 

What if God says : Well, I created the heavens and the earth, and all creature on it.

  I then used what I created (genitics, resportory, circulatory, immune systems etc) and over time tweaked it into an image of me- MAN.  Of course-  Now how could I put all that stuff in the Bible when I wanted man to discover it on his own?

It was a process getting there...the way that God works.

God works by processes...other wise we'd be automatically perfect Christains....but he puts us thru a process to develop into a Christian..but never perfect.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> : 7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
> 
> This is very simple and easy to understand and should answer your question about how man was formed.
> 
> ...




I also believe that God is all powerful...and that there is a purpose in even the bad stuff happening to people.

Because it is part of the process of where he wants things to go.

for example:  The disciples probably thought it was a pretty bad day when the Guy that the followed died on the cross and everyone was out to get them next.
But, it was part of the process to have saved.  Bad day? NO! one of the best in history.

The way I see that quote above is that from dust, God created live single cell orginisims, which he lead into all types of life for different reasons, and then once it looked like a pretty good place for man he evolved many generations of animals into his finished product: Man. And he created his first Soul thru Adam and Eve.

Notice that there is nothing remotly close to us- nothing else can worship or use tools  or language like us.  But we share the same breathing, eating, and reporductive systems as other animals.  That was on purpose from God.  

All other animals have close relitives that can do thing simalar to them.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Great talk fellow Christains...I must go work now...I'lll be back!


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## grim (Jan 16, 2008)

I BELIEVE


that the choices in the poll are insufficient.


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

Randy said:


> I happen to believe that God just did not tell the early writters about evolution and the fact that the earth is billons of years old.  For one thing it has NOTHING to do with salvation and secondly it would have gotten so confusing trying to explain DNA and such to such ignorant people at the time.




 I tell you why I disagree...the scripture stated above(#67) DIRECTLY disputes everything you say you believe.


----------



## Jranger (Jan 16, 2008)

I personally no for a FACT that nobody knows what really happened. 
IMO, this topic has and will continue to miss the point all together which is God created everything no matter what order it was created or how it was created. .02


----------



## Randy (Jan 16, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> I tell you why I disagree...the scripture stated above(#67) DIRECTLY disputes everything you say you believe.



Again only if you believe the exact wording of it.  You see I believe at some poing God picked up some dirt and breathed life into it.

But I also think we get hung up on this way too much.  It has NOTHING to do with salvation.  It is like arguing about gas prices when we are headed for a depression.


----------



## Tenkiller (Jan 16, 2008)

Huntin Dad said:


> I believe Genesis sums it up rather well.  The Bible says "God created man" NOT, God created an ape and then Adam evolved from ape.
> 
> _ Gen 2:19  And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof._
> 
> Thats what I believe!



Same here, evolution goes against everything the Bible says.


----------



## chambers270 (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I don't get it.  It says he made the things on earth, then made man, and then told man: check out what I made for you- it's all yours, but respect it.
> 
> Again- the process of how he made man is not there.  But why is it so propsoteros to think that he used a couple genetic mutiations from apes to hominid (now extinct) to a couple others I can't remeber (all extint- which is good, cause Im sure the liberals would want us to feed and cloth them cause they are "almost" human) ....to man?
> 
> Are you tellling me you have the right to tell God he's not allowed to do it that way because that's not how this idea set up shop in your head?



The simple explanation for those who belive the Bible is this, God created Adam and Eve right, then he talked with them. How many apes, humaniods have you talked with lately?

And you cant say that women have evolved from something, because he took part of man and created Eve. Not to mention the obvious, in our own image statement.


----------



## DCHunter (Jan 16, 2008)

I see a pattern in the Bible that people seem to ignore. When God explains something that happened..or will happen, that man has not personally witnessed he uses symbolism. Revelations being the accepted example. How many of us believe that a literal 7 headed monster is going to come at the end of times? Why then, is it so hard to believe that maybe, possibly, the account of creation that God have to Moses was symbolism since the intricate details did not matter or have any bearing on our relationship with Him. The main point is that God created us. How he did it is irrelevant. When God said he created us in his image, I don't think he meant in a physical sense, but rather that he gave us a soul. Do ya'll think God actually sits up in the clouds as a physical, carbon based life form?


----------



## Oldstick (Jan 16, 2008)

Speaking of ugly threads, that's all for me on this one. 

This topic always seems to get vicious from the proponents of one particular viewpoint.  They sure don't gain any friends with some of the statements I see in this thread.


----------



## grim (Jan 16, 2008)

What if King James has a hidden agenda in his traslation of the Bible?


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

Early Riser1 said:


> I'm with Doc Holiday on this one. I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution!



I'm with Early Riser1 on this one. 

Many scientists, through an honest discipline to the scientific method itself, suggest that their is more evidence to support Creation than any other present theory...


----------



## Field-tipdeathfromabove (Jan 16, 2008)

As a man of science and logic, i will have to go with evolution for now. To me they are all still theories and i am still waiting for facts and that may never happen in my lifetime. I do however believe in a higher power  because it had to start somewhere, I just dont rely on the bible that has been re-written and changed over thousands of years and after reading it several times i still have many questions that are unanswered. I am not saying that the bible is wrong but it just doesnt give me all the answers that i need.


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

Are we really doing this or am I dreaming?


----------



## DCHunter (Jan 16, 2008)

FX Jenkins said:


> Are we really doing this or am I dreaming?



Let's talk about baiting instead.


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

Ok i get what the geniuses are sayin now. God did create everything from the start. but then we evolved into what we are today into his image.

That doesnt make any sense because he said he made us into his image. well that means he did it with the first two humans. there hasnt been any evolving going on anywhere. if what you are saying is true, then god made adam and eve and they made babies and the whole world happened but then somewhere in the mix they would have had reverted back to single cell organisms. then they evolved into what we are. if god created adam and eve in his image from the start of it all in the garden of eden then there is no way any one evolved. THERE IS NO WAY because they were created from the start as intellectual human beings that could function, work, make babies, and make decisions which is exactly what we are today. your (ludacris) theory goes against everything i read in my bible. 

(again) so if what you are sayin is true then somewhere all of the humans would have dissapeared or died or whatever (cause it didnt happen) and the world was left with single cell organisms. THEN (if what you are sayin is true, but its not) then they evolved into humans and here we are. but let me ask you this, why would god create humans first, then after they magically dissapeared, not create them again? why only create or just stick with single cell organisms and let them evolve back into humans? it makes no sense. YOU make no sense with your theories. if you believed solely in evolution then i would not have given this much thought because the theory of evolution is crazy so i wouldnt even bother. but saying that god created whatever you think he created then it evolved into the world we live in today makes less since than no god and just evolution. 

beleive what you want to but my bible contains all of the information i need to know about where i came from. a person with any doubts or questions about creation doesnt have a very solid foundation for their faith to be based on. If you are not sure of your creation then i dont see how you are sure about your salvation.

im sorry that some of yall cannot seem to come to grips about you came here. hopefully you will accept salvation and i will see you in heaven.


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

DCHunter said:


> Let's talk about baiting instead.



 threadjacker...


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## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

Im sorry, ive just never met anyone who believed in evolution and god.


----------



## Field-tipdeathfromabove (Jan 16, 2008)

DougBush said:


> Gotta LOVE your avatar. I was planning on switching to that and now you shoot me down...grrrrr
> "why, Ed Bailey does this mean we are not friends anymore? You know, Ed, if we were not friends, I just don't think i could bear it"
> Thank you
> Douglas



Im not shooting anybody down, I respect everyones beliefs as long as it doesnt harm anyone. I have my own opinion just like everybody else and i dont force my ideas on anyone, thats what freedom is all about!


----------



## grim (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> Im sorry, ive just never met anyone who believed in evolution and god.



You dont know any Catholics?


----------



## Randy (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> Im sorry, ive just never met anyone who believed in evolution and god.


I hope to meet you some day!


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

i stay away from catholics. anyone who thinks that a man can forgive them for their sins is 

and if we meet i sure hope you can get your beleifs together because none of this makes any sense.


----------



## Field-tipdeathfromabove (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> Im sorry, ive just never met anyone who believed in evolution and god.






I believe that the higher power that i call god created everything billions of years ago and things have been evolving ever since. The whole world, not just the earth, the moon and the stars that we can see. The world goes far beyond what we can see with the naked eye or even imagine in our dreams.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Jan 16, 2008)

potsticker said:


> Im sorry, the thought that i or my family derived from an ape is childish. Does anyone think that the General Robert E. Lee was derived from an ape? Preposterous!



haha... Gettysburg!  Great line!


----------



## packrat (Jan 16, 2008)

*EVOLUTION*

Sure Is Funny How A Lot Of Men Are Trying To Make A Monkey Out Of Themself


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## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

The scary thing about evolution for a lot of people is it might mean they are not as special as they would like to believe. If the universe is 13.7 billions of years old, the earth 4.3 billions, life started over 3billion years ago etc. 

Then maybe creation has more to do than just making a special place for them to stand. Maybe God has more going on than just keeping track of their every thought and action.

Maybe....  they just aren't as important as an individual as they would like, apparently desperately need, to believe.

Evolution implies a process, which means we are still evolving. Which means we currently AREN'T the pinnacle of creation. That thought is too much for some to bear.


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Evolution implies a process, which means we are still evolving. Which means we currently AREN'T the pinnacle of creation. That thought is too much for some to bear.



any proof we are evolving?


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> The scary thing about evolution for a lot of people is it might mean they are not as special as they would like to believe. If the universe is 13.7 billions of years old, the earth 4.3 billions, life started over 3billion years ago etc.
> 
> Then maybe creation has more to do than just making a special place for them to stand. Maybe God has more going on than just keeping track of their every thought and action.
> 
> ...



Thats evolution for you...Starts out with an IF.... put a bunch of MAYBE's in the middle and then make an Authoritative statement at the end...


----------



## grim (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> i stay away from catholics. anyone who thinks that a man can forgive them for their sins is



According to the Bible, it is at the instruction of Jesus.  It is referred to in the books of Matthew, James and John.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

FX Jenkins said:


> Thats evolution for you...Starts out with an IF.... put a bunch of MAYBE's in the middle and then make an Authoritative statement at the end...
> 
> Oh well...



Yeah, I start out with "IF". I'm not so arrogant as to believe that it's impossible for me to be wrong because of something I read. 

I use "MAYBE" because I'm expressing an opinion about what other people <font color=red>MAY</font> believe and since I can't read minds, I have to infer from statements made and actions taken.

An authoritative statement:

You do not understand the meaning of that last paragraph of my post. Nor the use of an authoritive statement.


----------



## MustangMAtt30 (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> i stay away from catholics. anyone who thinks that a man can forgive them for their sins is



You do realize that at one time, ALL Christians were Catholic.  Probably some folks in your lineage.

BTW, I am Southern Baptist but I believe that Catholics that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved like me.

All this evolution debate does us no good.  Our main focus should be on Jesus.


----------



## grim (Jan 16, 2008)

MustangMAtt30 said:


> You do realize that at one time, ALL Christians were Catholic.



And protestants were cultists.


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> I use "MAYBE" because I'm expressing an opinion about what other people <font color=red>MAY</font> believe and since I can't read minds, I have to infer from statements made and actions taken.
> 
> An authoritative statement:
> 
> You do not understand the meaning of that last paragraph of my post. Nor the use of an authoritive statement.



Fair enough, I just thought your Maybe's sounded a little condescending towards those that believed in Creation...
But your certainly entitled to your opinion...but its not that I can't bear the thought that we as humans are not the pinnacle of creation, its just that their is no evidence to support otherwise, and IF I'm wrong...then whats the purpose..?


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

And in recognition of the original posters intention, not to bash on others ideas, I respectfully yield to the gentleman from woodstock...   who has his head stuck in the wrong place


----------



## PoBoy (Jan 16, 2008)

99.9% of the DNA in chimps is identical to that of humans.  That alone should prove common origin.

I don't understand how someone can believe in all of the technology, medicine, biology, etc of this wonderfully ever changing world and not give evolution a glimmer of a thought.  But, they can give 100% credence to a book wrote in the past, with untold number of interpretations.



Thumpers=blind leading the blind.


----------



## FX Jenkins (Jan 16, 2008)

PoBoy said:


> 99.9% of the DNA in chimps is identical to that of humans.  That alone should prove common origin.
> 
> 
> 
> Thumpers=blind leading the blind.



I don't understand how anyone can look at DNA and not see evidence of a divine creator...much less the heavens and laws of nature, and the %'s that had to be in place in order for to begin in the first place...



DougBush said:


> Thank you for this elightening information regarding DNA.
> Could you please furnish me some websites or links to backup this claim?



Here you go Douglas ...your Sunday school class might find this interesting..

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/09/0924_020924_dnachimp.html

now its 95% ...science is evolving..


----------



## Luke0927 (Jan 16, 2008)

I am a Christian I also believe i did not come from a monkey but, i do believe that God created forms of evolution or adaptation maybe a better word.......but people just loose all creditability when they try and say the world is 10,000 years old, the earth doesn't' revolve around the Sun etc...(all things i have heard come from biblical believers)


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

PoBoy said:


> 99.9% of the DNA in chimps is identical to that of humans.  That alone should prove common origin.
> 
> I don't understand how someone can believe in all of the technology, medicine, biology, etc of this wonderfully ever changing world and not give evolution a glimmer of a thought.  But, they can give 100% credence to a book wrote in the past, with untold number of interpretations.
> 
> ...




Actually, it is 98.9.  Close enough.

And all the things you have mentioned have NOTHING to do with evolution as it is being discussed, but technology and the growth of man's knowladge.


----------



## MustangMAtt30 (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Actually, it is 98.9.  Close enough.
> 
> And all the things you have mentioned have NOTHING to do with evolution as it is being discussed, but technology and the growth of man's knowladge.




Now according to the above NG article it is 95%.


----------



## cnutter (Jan 16, 2008)

WOW and this thread is a shinning example of why  I never disscuss faith and religon with people.  And the same goes for politics also.  Everyone has a IMO or IMHO on the subject and your never going to change peoples minds or convence them differntly when it comes to their faith.


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

FX Jenkins said:


> And in recognition of the original posters intention, not to bash on others ideas, I respectfully yield to the gentleman from woodstock...   who has his head stuck in the wrong place


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

PoBoy said:


> 99.9% of the DNA in chimps is identical to that of humans.  That alone should prove common origin.
> 
> I don't understand how someone can believe in all of the technology, medicine, biology, etc of this wonderfully ever changing world and not give evolution a glimmer of a thought.  But, they can give 100% credence to a book wrote in the past, with untold number of interpretations.
> 
> ...



thumity thump thump thumpity thump thump....


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

I think Huckabee says it well:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n-BFEhkIujA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n-BFEhkIujA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> and the growth of man's knowladge.



Right there is the key to my comments against evolution.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> Ok i get what the geniuses are sayin now. God did create everything from the start. but then we evolved into what we are today into his image.
> 
> That doesnt make any sense because he said he made us into his image. well that means he did it with the first two humans. there hasnt been any evolving going on anywhere. if what you are saying is true, then god made adam and eve and they made babies and the whole world happened but then somewhere in the mix they would have had reverted back to single cell organisms. then they evolved into what we are. if god created adam and eve in his image from the start of it all in the garden of eden then there is no way any one evolved. THERE IS NO WAY because they were created from the start as intellectual human beings that could function, work, make babies, and make decisions which is exactly what we are today. your (ludacris) theory goes against everything i read in my bible.
> 
> ...




I'm not sure what you mean with the first part of your post here.

And yes, God did create man...I have no doubt.  I just think that it happened a differnt way than you think...not all the details of HOW He did it were in the Bible.

And there is nothing on this thread that suggests that man has continued to evolve, but as one poster said: God's likeness was OUR SOUL, not our body.  Otherwise we would all be the same hight, wieght, color...ect...and God does not "walk around" like us.  He is everywhere, and all powerful.  He is not a wizard.


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Right there is the key to my comments against evolution.



Im not sure I understand.


----------



## Branchminnow (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Im not sure I understand.



Man's knowledge is just that. 
Roman's
 8: 6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 

All the knowledge that man has speculated has come into exsistence from their own created knowledge they di  not get the knowledge from prayer not from meditation.


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Im not sure I understand.



my thoughts exactly. i dont understand your thoughts and you dont understand mine so this isnt gonna go anywhere. like my first post, I wish this thread wouldnt have been started. I see people alot differently now.


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

grim said:


> According to the Bible, it is at the instruction of Jesus.  It is referred to in the books of Matthew, James and John.




i have my bible in hand and i would like for you to point me to the scripture that states that please


----------



## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

MustangMAtt30 said:


> You do realize that at one time, ALL Christians were Catholic.  Probably some folks in your lineage.
> 
> BTW, I am Southern Baptist but I believe that Catholics that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved like me.



well if they have accepted christ as their savior then they are saved and goin to heaven. if youre not saved, youre not a christian. people call themselves one, thats ok, but it wont get them into heaven.


----------



## WAR EAGLE (Jan 16, 2008)

How many people still have trail cameras out in the woods?


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

FX Jenkins said:


> And in recognition of the original posters intention, not to bash on others ideas, I respectfully yield to the gentleman from woodstock...   who has his head stuck in the wrong place



That's not MY head (at least not all the time).


----------



## jimbo4116 (Jan 16, 2008)

I simply believe in God as the Creator of all things, I don't try to figure out how he did it.


----------



## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

FX Jenkins said:


> Fair enough, I just thought your Maybe's sounded a little condescending towards those that believed in Creation...
> But your certainly entitled to your opinion...but its not that I can't bear the thought that we as humans are not the pinnacle of creation, its just that their is no evidence to support otherwise, and IF I'm wrong...then whats the purpose..?



Just my take. 

We'll accept that there is a God and that He/She/It IS the creator. 

1. We are not mentally capable of fully comprehending God. If we were we would be Gods.

2. Given that, we are not capable of fully understanding His purpose, nor should we expect to.

3. It's also not our place, if you will, to judge His purpose or His methods. When you can create your own universe, set it up to suit yourself. But in this one, evolution happens, whether you like it or not. 

4. I suspect given the size and scope apparent, that there is more going on in this creation than what is happening on this teensy tiny little planet. And that humanity is not the only project in the works.

5. I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that no human being knows all about God or His works and that those that deny the knowledge we have gained so far, know even less.

6. Whatever God's purpose or methods are, they are fine by me (I'm sure he appreciates that).


----------



## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> my thoughts exactly. i dont understand your thoughts and you dont understand mine so this isnt gonna go anywhere. like my first post, I wish this thread wouldnt have been started. I see people alot differently now.



I would not let someone's view on religion make you judge them.

I'm certain that you were not born with it all figured out (nor was I)...meaning that we are all "works in progress"

Which is why we are taught not to judge....God has a plan for all...we are all children of God...let his work be done and don't judge his work.


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Man's knowledge is just that.
> Roman's
> 8: 6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
> 
> All the knowledge that man has speculated has come into exsistence from their own created knowledge they di  not get the knowledge from prayer not from meditation.



Carnal means "of the flesh"...ie don't think you can find happiness looking for tail every night.


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## jimbo4116 (Jan 16, 2008)

MustangMAtt30 said:


> You do realize that at one time, ALL Christians were Catholic.  Probably some folks in your lineage.
> BTW, I am Southern Baptist but I believe that Catholics that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved like me.
> 
> All this evolution debate does us no good.  Our main focus should be on Jesus.



Your going to stir up a hornets nest with that one.


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## GAnaturalist (Jan 16, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> More correction.
> 
> Dogs did not evolve from wolves. They were bred from wolves. All domestic animals were bred by humans from their wild stock. (same for plants).
> 
> ...



I guess the point I was trying to make is that dogs have changed over time, from wolf to dog, they ARE seperate species, and if they interbreed  now the offspring is infertile. Like if you breed a horse and donkey, the mule is infertile, or am I wrong?


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## hambone44 (Jan 16, 2008)

you forgot another option:

__Nobody KNOWS

I don't think it is anyone's place on here or anywhere, including myself , to claim to have a correct response to this subject,  because NOBODY KNOWS. No point in speculating anything. There's just no point.\

But the way I see it, something that is perfect cannot create that which is not. (but, again,  I shouldn't speculate... its a waste of time)

speaking of time, who created that?


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> my thoughts exactly. i dont understand your thoughts and you dont understand mine so this isnt gonna go anywhere. like my first post, I wish this thread wouldnt have been started. I see people alot differently now.



I reread your post and I think I see the disconnect from your and my thinking.

We both believe that God created man.

You believe that he did something like take a peice of clay and formed it into a human and made him real,

and I believe (and this is just a theory until further information is avalible) that he created all the world on a DNA strand, created many different creatures from it thru the process I term evolution (note- that does not, in my mind, mean that it was random, He made it happen)...and when he was happy with the way the world looked for humans he evolved apes into hominids to the next creature into what we see as a man ect...and then created a man who looked like man, but was not...until he breathed the first soul into Adam. Then there was a being of his image.  Something with a soul.

Bottom line: As Huckabee said, no one was there...and it's just a theory on the exact way it happend.  He knows for sure, that's good enough for me.


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## hambone44 (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I reread your post and I think I see the disconnect from your and my thinking.
> 
> We both believe that God created man.
> 
> ...



 skip the dinosaurs...


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## FishingAddict (Jan 16, 2008)

who knows why he created and destoyed things along the way...no one understand His process...I know my son gets a kick out of them, however.


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## NOYDB (Jan 16, 2008)

GAnaturalist said:


> I guess the point I was trying to make is that dogs have changed over time, from wolf to dog, they ARE separate species, and if they interbreed  now the offspring is infertile. Like if you breed a horse and donkey, the mule is infertile, or am I wrong?



They are now separate, but not because of evolution. We did that to/for them.


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## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I would not let someone's view on religion make you judge them.
> 
> I'm certain that you were not born with it all figured out (nor was I)...meaning that we are all "works in progress"
> 
> Which is why we are taught not to judge....God has a plan for all...we are all children of God...let his work be done and don't judge his work.



im not judging anyone FishingAddict i just see some folks differently.


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## JerkBait (Jan 16, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> I reread your post and I think I see the disconnect from your and my thinking.
> 
> We both believe that God created man.
> 
> ...



Yep thats what i know to be true and i do know now what you think happened. Glad we at least know what the other is tryin to get out. 

I still think youre makin to much out of a few verses. Those few verses say all there is to know me amigo.


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## PoBoy (Jan 17, 2008)

yea, yea, yea, and the earth is just over 5000 years old!!

The world would be a better place is man, all men, could mature and evolve past all, and I mean all, religions.  A look at people of the past world, each had their own religions with completely different context or adaptations.  Their civilizations have came and went and they were sure they worshiped the right gods.  

Why is this group of men so sure they are right???

Did y'all know that in all of the religions in the world right now, there has been over 30 virgin births of different gods!!

If my daughter try's to pull that one, I ain't buying it.


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## grim (Jan 17, 2008)

JerkBait said:


> i have my bible in hand and i would like for you to point me to the scripture that states that please



Start with James 5:13-18

Also John 20:23 and Matthew 16:15-20

This page below contains additonal information:

http://www.ancient-future.net/reconciliation.html


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## MustangMAtt30 (Jan 17, 2008)

jimbo4116 said:


> Your going to stir up a hornets nest with that one.



How is that controversial?  Until Martin Luther started the Protestant Revolution in the 1500's the Catholic church was it. (Well Henry VIII started his own so he could have a divorce, haha!)


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 17, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> i believe God created man just as we are today (in his own image.)  If anything, we have devolved from that state.



Amen!


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## Randy (Jan 17, 2008)

I also never get the "in His own image" argument.  We are human, God is not.  I believe he was speaking about another type of image.


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## Lane Morrell (Jan 17, 2008)

Can somebody please tell me how they know the world is billions of years old?   I don't like guesses.  I can only tell you that I have faith in God that we did not evolve.  It says in Genesis that we were formed in his image.  I don't think Gods image has evolved.


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## pnome (Jan 17, 2008)

Lane Morrell said:


> Can somebody please tell me how they know the world is billions of years old?   I don't like guesses.  I can only tell you that I have faith in God that we did not evolve.  It says in Genesis that we were formed in his image.  I don't think Gods image has evolved.



Genesis is a myth my friend.  Nothing more.

Here is the answer to your question:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html


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## Randy (Jan 17, 2008)

Lane Morrell said:


> Can somebody please tell me how they know the world is billions of years old?   I don't like guesses.  I can only tell you that I have faith in God that we did not evolve.  It says in Genesis that we were formed in his image.  I don't think Gods image has evolved.



So you think God is a human.  He looks just like us?  Is His image a woman or a man?  What about color?  Which one of our images does God look like?  Or maybe the question should read which one of our images looks like God.

What if the "image" the Bible speaks of is "his image" of what He wanted us to look like.   Like a painter has an image in their head before they begin a painting of what the final painting will be.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)




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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

pnome said:


> Genesis is a myth my friend.  Nothing more.
> 
> Here is the answer to your question:
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html



So what about Exodus through Revelations then?


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## dawg2 (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm glad I just watched this PLANE CRASH.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I'm glad I just watched this PLANE CRASH.



With you as the pilot, did you expect more


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## dawg2 (Jan 17, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> With you as the pilot, did you expect more



I bailed out on post #4.  When you look out the window, both of your engines are in flames you bail out and pull th estring and float safely away, especially if you are in one of these (Air to Air Refueling tanker ):


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## pnome (Jan 17, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> So what about Exodus through Revelations then?



Old Testament: Mostly unprovable legends and myths, with a few historical facts thrown in here and there to maintain some semblance of credibility and history for the Jews.  

New Testament: Probably accurate as concerns the main events of the life of Jesus.  Claims to divinity and miracles most probably come from the imaginations and fervent hopes of the authors.   Only anecdotal evidence is offered to support those claims.

Revelations is a different story.  I like the theory that Revelations is a call to arms for Christians to burn Rome.   Kept cryptic so as not to alert the Romans.  That's just a theory, but it's far more probable than the idea that Revelations is an accurate prognostication of the end of the world.


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## Thanatos (Jan 17, 2008)

The real question is...does it matter???


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## pnome (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanatos said:


> The real question is...does it matter???



Probably not.  At least not right now.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

pnome said:


> Old Testament: Mostly unprovable legends and myths, with a few historical facts thrown in here and there to maintain some semblance of credibility and history for the Jews.
> 
> New Testament: Probably accurate as concerns the main events of the life of Jesus.  Claims to divinity and miracles most probably come from the imaginations and fervent hopes of the authors.   Only anecdotal evidence is offered to support those claims.
> 
> Revelations is a different story.  I like the theory that Revelations is a call to arms for Christians to burn Rome.   Kept cryptic so as not to alert the Romans.  That's just a theory, but it's far more probable than the idea that Revelations is an accurate prognostication of the end of the world.


ok, nevermind.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I bailed out on post #4.  When you look out the window, both of your engines are in flames you bail out and pull th estring and float safely away, especially if you are in one of these (Air to Air Refueling tanker ):



I think you been drinking to in excess today.


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## dawg2 (Jan 17, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> I think you been drinking to in excess today.



I probably WILL be.  Man, some tough topics on the stove today.  I broke about 5 spoons already.  I'm gonna have to get one in ABS Plastic.  Those wooden ones are pretty but they just don't hold up.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

FishingAddict said:


> Again- the process of how he made man is not there.  But why is it so propsoteros to think that he used a couple genetic mutiations from apes to hominid (now extinct) to a couple others I can't remeber



Try reading Gen 2 vs 7 



He formed man from the dust and breath air into the nostrils. Then of course in Gen 3 vs 19 also says man was taken from out of the earth and then after we die, the old body will return to dust. No extinct monkeys or foreign genetics mentioned anywhere. However, it does say that a monkey will produce a monkey

But of course if you want to think the dust was from a dead monkey, your entitled to your opinion, maybe some of the dust was, Ive seen some folks lately that looks like monkeys.


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## Lane Morrell (Jan 17, 2008)

Pnome, I think alot of science is junk also.  And yes Randy, for about 33 years, God was human. By the way, God is much more that a painter.


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## Spotlite (Jan 17, 2008)

JBowers said:


> Well, an egg and a sperm unite to become one cell, that one cell evolves into two, two to four and so on and so forth until ..



Until it becomes a scientist

(your describing reproduction, which is what we are suppose to do, after the initial creation)


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## Tim L (Jan 17, 2008)

God made man; how he did it doesn't matter.


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## PWalls (Jan 17, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Although some may argue the fact but I did not come from a ape,monkey or Clyde.



Awww Branch, I was with you until you mentioned Clyde.


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## dawg2 (Jan 17, 2008)

Rouster said:


> God made man; how he did it doesn't matter.



I agree.


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## CAMO84 (Jan 17, 2008)

I do believe we were created from God Almighty but he did give us the capability to evolve. Look back just the past 50 years and see where he (God) has let us get to. Once we reach the platue where most think there is no God he will come back and prove the disbelievers wrong. We as all creatures have evolved in some form or fasion. so truefully this was a trick question


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## Branchminnow (Jan 17, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Awww Branch, I was with you until you mentioned Clyde.



Finally!!!! 

Somebody remembered the "right turn Clyde!"


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