# Dog food help?



## MudLuvr

What are y'all's preferences for dog food for my lab he is 1 1/12 years old?


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## Joe Overby

Eukanuba.  Hands down the best commercially available food on the market.


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## Drake1807

I like Eukanuba but after they went up on their price I switched to Pro Plan Performance. I'm sure that I will be the one to put Eukanuba in bankruptcy for being greedy. Lol


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## Folsom

Like Joe said Eukanuba is great and I fed it for a long time. With the price increase and bag size decrease I had to try something new. I made the switch to Loyall and so far so good. I'm feeding 7 the 30/20 puppy, 4 30/20 performance, and two the active formula (all labs). I couldn't be happier, stool on all the pups are better and they have all kept great coats so far.


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## huntchesies

Black Gold


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## waterdogs

Pro plan has increase their prices as well, just paid 53 bucks for pro plan puppy and 52 for PP salmon and rice. pP sent me a email stating they will have a price increase at the 1st of the year, but looks like they did it already. I am going to check the price of eukanuba and some others. I want to feed the best for my labs but within a good price point. We may all to get together and see if we can purchase a pallet of food and split it up. Just a thought


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## JuliaH

If I only had a couple dogs I would stay with Pro Plan Performance, price increase or not.  With that said, I had to look around some and came across Loyall. 

I have been feeding Loyall Professional now for about 3-4 months and my dogs are doing good on it, so this is where I will stay I reckon. 

I tried Black Gold once, did not like it. I don't feed "grocery store" dog foods. 

There are a lot of reasons I don't see prices getting better, and it is a shame that our economy is bad, but that is another entirely different discussion.

The main thing is to use a good quality food. I want meat as the first ingredient, not by product, etc. but when I found I had to switch, I went to a brand where they are backed by a good company, do their own milling so that the feed is consistent, and have good customer support. 

Julia


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## Ruger#3

Faithway Pride and Pleasure 24/20, good dogfood won't break the bank.

Sold at feed stores.


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## SonyaS

Was feeding Iams (which is the sister to Eukanuba, same creator, same company) but recently wanted something a bit less expensive and not made by P&G.

Started feeding Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice.  Better price, sold at feed stores,  all the dogs love it, plus the feed store guys happily load 120 lbs of dog food into the trunk with no lines. First ingredients are Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Barley, etc....

We are very pleased with it. The Diamond "High Energy" is a favorite among folks with very active working dogs or hunting dogs that burn a lot of calories.

Only complaint is the adult food does not contain Glucosamine or Chondroitin (joint supplements), only the senior 8+ food does.


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## Joe Overby

SonyaS said:


> Was feeding Iams (which is the sister to Eukanuba, same creator, same company) but recently wanted something a bit less expensive and not made by P&G.
> 
> Started feeding Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice.  Better price, sold at feed stores,  all the dogs love it. First ingredients are Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Barley, etc....
> 
> So far we are very pleased with it. The Diamond "High Energy" is a favorite among folks with very active working dogs or hunting dogs that burn a lot of calories.
> 
> Only complaint is the adult food does not contain Glucosamine or Chondroitin (joint supplements), only the senior 8+ food does.



That and their recall record is atrocious...Diamond has been responsible for more dog deaths in the last few years than old age...horrible, horrible company.


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## JuliaH

Well, anything made by Diamond will never be a feed I can trust. Has that company ever missed a recall?

Companies such as Purina, specially Pro Plan division and Cargill, makers of Nutrena and Loyall.  I am sure there are others, but these are 2 I have dealt with successfully. 

There are some websites that allow you to compare dog foods, but I don't trust any that hype a brand. Of course everything else will fall short.

Here is a good link from the FDA where you can check dog foods. 

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm

To be fair, there does not seem to be any dog food recalls at this time. 

Julia


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## JimDraper

I have used Black Gold for years on my Labs with great results.


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> That and their recall record is atrocious...Diamond has been responsible for more dog deaths in the last few years than old age...horrible, horrible company.



Really? Lordy. Was not aware of that, thank you! Guess my dog food bill will go back up.  I just bought 120 lbs the other day. Hopefully the feed store will take it back if I buy something else, I could use some ivermectin.

Not a lot of dog food options in this town, I thought Diamond was pretty good. Maybe I will go back to Nutromax, expensive as heck but they seem to be a responsible company.


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## Joe Overby

Try PMI Exclusive...also look into Native, Country Vet, Loyall, and Fromm.  Also, be careful as there are several other brands that are manufactured by Diamond...Taste of the Wild and Tractor Supply Company's "4Health" brand are 2 of them...Dog food is like gas these days...we have to have it, it needs to be quality, it's already expensive, and they keep raising the dang prices!!!


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## Joe Overby

Oh, look into Enhance or VF as well...GREAT foods...


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## Joe Overby

One more I forgot...Victor...


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## shadow2

Science diet.  It is the only thing will my wife will feed our dogs.  And since she is a VET she makes all of the animal health calls.


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> Try PMI Exclusive...also look into Native, Country Vet, Loyall, and Fromm.  Also, be careful as there are several other brands that are manufactured by Diamond...Taste of the Wild and Tractor Supply Company's "4Health" brand are 2 of them...Dog food is like gas these days...we have to have it, it needs to be quality, it's already expensive, and they keep raising the dang prices!!!



Yeah I feel like a fool now. The ingredient list looked good and the dogs loved it. I am feeding 7 so we go through a lot of dog food. Looks like some of the Diamond recalls were due to Salmonella, dirty factories which also means probably buying cheap ingredients from China (Salmonella isn't a problem in and of itself, I sometimes feed raw chicken which means salmonella everywhere, but in manufacturing plants that is shoddy). 

Thanks. I may start ordering food online again, we don't have many options in this town.


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## grizzlyblake

I feed my two beagles, one basset, and one mutt Blue Buffalo - the original big blue bag. It's really expensive though, so I'd like to find an alternative that isn't as pricey.


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## JuliaH

Just for the help, here is a long list of dog/cat, dog, and cat/dog foods that have experienced recalls. Here is the link so research can be done if needed...

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/newpetfoodrecalls/#Dog

The good foods are getting more and more expensive, so we all may want to check things out.  The big recall several years ago included a lot of dog foods...

Cat, Dog Products
    Country Value
    DIAMOND
    DINGO
    DOCTORS FOSTER & SMITH CHICKEN
    Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Venison
    EVOLVE
    HEALTH DIET
    LICK YOUR CHOPS
    Nutra Nugget
    Pounce
    Professional
    Royal Canin

Dog Products
    ALPO
    AMERICAS CHOICE
    ARROWBRAND 21% Dog Chunks
    ARROWBRAND Professional Formula Dog Food
    ARROWBRAND Super Proeaux Dog Food
    AUTHORITY
    AWARD
    American Bullie
    American Nutrition
    BEST CHOICE
    BIG BET
    BIG RED
    BLOOM
    BLUE BUFFALO
    Beef Hooves
    Beefeaters
    Berkley & Jensen
    Bil-Jac
    Blue Buffalo
    Blue Wilderness
    Bravo
    CADILLAC
    COMPANION
    Canine Caviar
    Champion
    Country Value
    DEMOULAS MARKET BASKET
    DIAMOND
    DINGO
    DOCTORS FOSTER & SMITH
    DOG POWER(R) BRAND DOG FOOD, ADULT MAINTENANCE FORMULA 21-12
    DOG POWER(R) BRAND DOG FOOD, HI-PRO PERFORMANCE FORMULA 26-18
    DOG POWER(R) BRAND DOG FOOD, HUNTERS FORMULA 27-14
    Dentley's Beef Hooves
    Dentley's Knucle Steaks
    Diamond
    Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Venison
    Digger's
    Disney
    Dog Treats
    Dog treats
    Dollar General
    EUKANUBA
    Eukanuba
    FOOD LION
    GIANT COMPANION
    GRREAT CHOICE
    Good Buddy
    Grandpa Louie's Dog Treats
    Gravy Train
    HILL COUNTRY FARE
    HY-VEE
    Happy Tails
    Harmony Farms
    Hartz Naturals
    Hill Country Fare
    IAMS
    Iams
    Iams Veterinary Formulat
    Integrity
    Jerky Treats
    Jones
    KASCO
    Kirkland Signature Premium
    Kroger
    LAURA LYNN
    LOVING MEALS
    MEIJER MAIN CHOICE
    MIGHTY DOG
    MIXABLES
    Marksman
    Merrick
    Merrick Beef Filet Squares
    Merrick Beef Filet Squares Dog Treats
    Merrick Beef Filet Squares and Merrick Texas Hold 'Ems
    Merrick Junior Texas Taffy
    Merrick TEXAS HOLD "EMS
    Mill Creek Premium
    Mulligan Stew
    NATURAL BALANCE
    NATURAL LIFE
    NUTRIPLAN
    NUTRO
    NUTRO MAX
    NUTRO NATURAL CHOICE
    NUTRO ULTRA
    Natural Balance
    Natural Way
    Next Generation Pet Products
    Northwest Royal
    Nurture
    Nutra Nugget
    NutraGold
    OL ROY CANADA
    OL ROY US
    Ol' Roy
    PAWS
    PET ESSENTIALS
    PET PRIDE
    PETRUS FEEDS, 21% Dog Food
    PRESIDENT'S CHOICE
    PRICE CHOPPER
    PRIORITY CANADA
    PRIORITY US
    PUBLIX
    Pedigree
    Pedigree 
    Perfect Pals
    Pet Life
    Pig Ears for Pet Treats
    Planet Dog Eats
    Pork Chomps
    Premium Natural
    Premium Smarty
    Professional
    ROCHE BROTHERS
    River Run
    Royal Canin
    SAVE-A-LOT
    SCHNUCKS
    SHEP
    SHEP DOG
    SHOP RITE
    SPRINGFIELD PRIZE
    SPROUT
    STATER BROTHERS
    STOP & SHOP COMPANION
    Safe-Guard
    Sensible Choice
    SmartPak
    Solid Gold WolfKing
    Springfield Prize
    Timberwolf Organics, Drug Kibble, Dakota Bison Formual
    Timberwolf Organics, Dry Kibble, Ocean Blue
    WEGMANS BRUISER
    WEIS TOTAL PET
    WESTERN FAMILY US
    WHITE ROSE
    WINN DIXIE
    Wellness
    Western Family
    Wysong Maintenance Canine Diet packaged
    Wysong Senior Canine Diet
    Wysong Synorgon Canine Diet
    Yeaster
    Yourpet


Dog, Cat Products
    AUTHORITY
    AWARD
    BEST CHOICE
    CO-OP GOLD
    COMPLIMENTS
    HEALTH DIET GOURMET CUISINE
    HILL COUNTRY FARE
    HY-VEE
    LA GRIFFE
    MASTER CHOICE
    NATURAL LIFE
    NUPET
    OL ROY CANADA
    PERFORMATRIN ULTRA
    PET PRIDE
    PRESIDENT'S CHOICE
    PRIORITY
    SCHNUCKS
    SPRINGFIELD PRIZE
    STATER BROTHERS
    TRIUMPH
    TRULY
    WESTERN FAMILY


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## swamp

grizzlyblake said:


> I feed my two beagles, one basset, and one mutt Blue Buffalo - the original big blue bag. It's really expensive though, so I'd like to find an alternative that isn't as pricey.



Tell me about it, switched to Victor a 4 star food just like blue buffalo


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## JuliaH

Shadow, I used to work for a vet, and they highly recommended Science Diet. I tried that once. The kennel packs were awful, and I did not like the maintenance feeds. My vet used to fuss at me at "All Life Stages" feed, since I was feeding Pro Plan Performance.... then SD decided to make an "All Life Stages" feed too. 

There are some really good special diets made by SD. Not talking about those... 

But, SD has never made a recall either, I think 

My dogs work field trials and hunting tests, so need a good high protein, high fat dog food. Not all dogs need those high performance feeds. 






shadow2 said:


> Science diet.  It is the only thing will my wife will feed our dogs.  And since she is a VET she makes all of the animal health calls.


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## StikR

I work for  company that sells microbial detection devices to hospitals and industrial sites.  The industrial sites are companies that produce things such as food, contact lens solution, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, and PET FOOD.  After the last Diamond pet food recall, Diamond purchased our top of the line and state of the art food testing instrumentation.  This is an FDA regulated instrument that is approved for human food safety.  It looks like Diamond may have implemented better pet food safety into their production processes and facilities.


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## shadow2

JuliaH said:


> Shadow, I used to work for a vet, and they highly recommended Science Diet. I tried that once. The kennel packs were awful, and I did not like the maintenance feeds. My vet used to fuss at me at "All Life Stages" feed, since I was feeding Pro Plan Performance.... then SD decided to make an "All Life Stages" feed too.
> 
> There are some really good special diets made by SD. Not talking about those...
> 
> But, SD has never made a recall either, I think
> 
> My dogs work field trials and hunting tests, so need a good high protein, high fat dog food. Not all dogs need those high performance feeds.



It's not on the above list that I can see


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> The big recall several years ago included a lot of dog foods...



Yeah tainted wheat gluten from China, it probably killed tens of thousands of pets before it was discovered. They only discovered the problem when the 20 flavor testing animals started dropping dead from kidney failure.

Now virtually all rawhide chewies are processed in China too. Used to be mostly Brazil but apparently China has taken over the bulk rawhide market. Scary stuff. When they aren't killing their own babies with tainted wheat gluten they are killing American dogs and cats.

The safe option is home cooking but wow...that is a heck of a lot of work with multiple dogs.


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## JuliaH

Since Diamond makes several brands, and lots of people purchase it, this sounds like a major step forward, and the fact that they now voluntarily recall when needed.... but they are still hard to trust. I think the last voluntary recall was May 2012.  It will be good when the time comes that Diamond pet foods are no longer a problem 

Of course, if I had my way, there would be no "by product meal" either as a meat ingredient...ugh!  And my moving away from Pro Plan Performance brought me into having to use the meal... lots of conversations with company rep for my product and lots of careful watching my dogs for any adverse affects, including my puppies.  

These dog food conversations are difficult because they always step on some folks' decisions. Not meant to do that from my perspective. Just want to be careful to give good information and that way we can all make good decisions for our dogs.




StikR said:


> I work for  company that sells microbial detection devices to hospitals and industrial sites.  The industrial sites are companies that produce things such as food, contact lens solution, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, and PET FOOD.  After the last Diamond pet food recall, Diamond purchased our top of the line and state of the art food testing instrumentation.  This is an FDA regulated instrument that is approved for human food safety.  It looks like Diamond may have implemented better pet food safety into their production processes and facilities.


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## Joe Overby

Its not that these companies did or didnt have recalls...its their response to them...Diamonds response was "oh well" and dogs died...lots of them...
FWIW, I wouldn't feed Science Diet if they paid me to.  The Fed Gov't used to MAKE us feed it when I was training detection dogs for them.  There were always dogs in the kennel that hadn't been purchased by the program yet that were fed Euk or PPP depending on where the dog came from...you could literally walk down the kennel and pick out which dogs were on SD and which were on a "premium" food.  SD dogs's coats looked horrible, it was dang near impossible to maintain their weights, and RARELY was there a firm stool.  My personal Vet AND UGA have stopped carrying SD in favor of Royal Canin....gee I wonder why??  SD is another terrible, terrible food.  First hand experience with over 150 dogs over 3 years...If there were no more Euk I would feed VF but, I am really liking the looks of PMI Exclusive....and I feed it to a HT/gun dog kennel daily...to me the dogs performance far outweighs the cost of the food.


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## JuliaH

I had the unhappy experience of knowing some families that had to put pets down or had them die during that one. We made a list from FDA at the vet where I worked so we could answer questions from concerned owners. There were a few very sad conversations with the doctors and some thankfully had their pets a checkup after checking the recall list ...



Julia




SonyaS said:


> Yeah tainted wheat gluten from China, it probably killed tens of thousands of pets before it was discovered. They only discovered the problem when the 20 flavor testing animals started dropping dead from kidney failure.
> 
> Now virtually all rawhide chewies are processed in China too. Used to be mostly Brazil but apparently China has taken over the bulk rawhide market. Scary stuff. When they aren't killing their own babies with tainted wheat gluten they are killing American dogs and cats.
> 
> The safe option is home cooking but wow...that is a heck of a lot of work with multiple dogs.


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## JuliaH

I have not checked into PMI, but that is certainly an option if I ever need it!   Thank you for this note!



> dogs performance far outweighs the cost of the food



AMEN!




Joe Overby said:


> Its not that these companies did or didnt have recalls...its their response to them...Diamonds response was "oh well" and dogs died...lots of them...
> FWIW, I wouldn't feed Science Diet if they paid me to.  The Fed Gov't used to MAKE us feed it when I was training detection dogs for them.  There were always dogs in the kennel that hadn't been purchased by the program yet that were fed Euk or PPP depending on where the dog came from...you could literally walk down the kennel and pick out which dogs were on SD and which were on a "premium" food.  SD dogs's coats looked horrible, it was dang near impossible to maintain their weights, and RARELY was there a firm stool.  My personal Vet AND UGA have stopped carrying SD in favor of Royal Canin....gee I wonder why??  SD is another terrible, terrible food.  First hand experience with over 150 dogs over 3 years...If there were no more Euk I would feed VF but, I am really liking the looks of PMI Exclusive....and I feed it to a HT/gun dog kennel daily...to me the dogs performance far outweighs the cost of the food.


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> Of course, if I had my way, there would be no "by product meal" either as a meat ingredient...ugh!



I am not cool with "bone meal" meaning possibly the remains of roadkill or pets killed in "shelters" but by product lamb meal doesn't concern me. As long as they boil it and it tastes good and it is nutritionally complete that is fine.

The microbe detection devices at Diamond Factories do not make me feel much better. I am not worried about microbes or Salmonella, sure that causes major recalls because it can cause human deaths in those with weak immune systems, but no one in my house has a weak immune system, raw chicken and pet snakes ensure that.

Chemicals in cheap ingredients from China are another matter entirely. If their manufacturing plants are full of salmonella who knows where they buy their ingredients? I can guess they buy from the cheapest supplier.

I will return 80 lbs of Diamond and donate the rest, I am sure the guys at the feed store will work out a suitable return policy. The owners of the feedstore are one of the oldest and richest families in this town, they WILL work out a suitable return/exchange.


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## JuliaH

SonyaS, 

The meal in feed that I use is "poultry by product meal" which is what caused the conversations with the company rep.    

Here is information on it from the Loyall website:  



> "Loyall™ Pet Foods incorporate Poultry By-Product Meal (PBPM) as the major source of protein in the formula.  PBPM is a major source of protein in many pet foods.  In the pet food industry, two types of PBPM are sold, which are labeled by Feedstuffs as a “feed grade” product and a
> “pet food grade” product.  The difference between the two products is mainly in the ash content, with the pet food grade product having a lower ash content than the feed grade product.
> “Pet Food Grade” PBPM is the one that is used in Loyall™ products. With all of the concern over using “ByProducts” of any kind as ingredients, the following information should help clear up concern as to why this ingredient was selected.
> Poultry By-Product Meal has:
> •  The highest palatability of the poultry-based meal ingredients - ensuring consistent consumption time after time.
> •  No beaks or feet in the type used in Loyall™ Pet Foods, which helps reduce ash content.
> •  The lowest ash content of the poultry-based meal ingredients.  Ash has an inverse relationship to digestibility: the lower the ash, the better the digestibility.
> Concerning the possibility of using Poultry as the main ingredient, while Poultry sounds more appealing as a main ingredient, it really isn't an ideal ingredient in terms of actual nutrition provided.  Poultry as an incoming ingredient is approximately 60% moisture, which allows it to be listed as the main ingredient, however as the pet food goes through the manufacturing process, much of that moisture is removed, leaving Poultry as a much less
> significant ingredient that contributes very little to the overall nutrient profile of the product, but still greatly contributing to the cost. "


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> FWIW, I wouldn't feed Science Diet if they paid me to.  The Fed Gov't used to MAKE us feed it when I was training detection dogs for them.  There were always dogs in the kennel that hadn't been purchased by the program yet that were fed Euk or PPP depending on where the dog came from...you could literally walk down the kennel and pick out which dogs were on SD and which were on a "premium" food.  SD dogs's coats looked horrible, it was dang near impossible to maintain their weights, and RARELY was there a firm stool.  My personal Vet AND UGA have stopped carrying SD in favor of Royal Canin....gee I wonder why??  SD is another terrible, terrible food.  First hand experience with over 150 dogs over 3 years...If there were no more Euk I would feed VF but, I am really liking the looks of PMI Exclusive....and I feed it to a HT/gun dog kennel daily...to me the dogs performance far outweighs the cost of the food.



Most dogs do not like Science Diet. Apparently it tastes like errrm.... They have all of those prescription diet canned foods (including a dry food for diabetic cats....a dry food? Really? High carb dry food for diabetics????)

Though the small very expensive cans of A/D are apparently very tasty and smell wonderful and are great for getting sick/reluctant eaters to chow down. A/D appears to be  irresistible according to my sometimes ill dogs and the dog left temporarily with a few cans in the car. Really good stuff that, during the 20 minute stop at the grocery store the healthy dog punctured and flattened the unopened A/D cans and all contents were removed. Good tasty stuff.


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## nhancedsvt

I have tried a couple different foods with my lab and keep coming back to Pro Plan. We'll be sticking with it this time.


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## JuliaH

There is nothing better out there... 




nhancedsvt said:


> I have tried a couple different foods with my lab and keep coming back to Pro Plan. We'll be sticking with it this time.


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## JuliaH

Update,  we have gone back to Pro Plan, never to leave it again... Have tried 2 less expensive feeds in the last few months, and nothing has the same consistency and quality. We won't be trying less expensive dog foods any more 

Julia


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## Lgb1987

Check out dogfoodadvisor.com I am a big fan of the 4 health at tractor supply


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## JuliaH

Thanks 

I have fed Pro Plan for years and have never had a problem except for price increases. The food is consistent and whether my dogs are working or raising pups, they and the pups are good on it. No joint or digestive problems, and kennels are easy to keep clean  

I am surprised that 4-Health has such a high rating on the dog food advisor website. It is made by Diamond, and I don't trust them for safely feeding any dog because of the numbers of recalls... my personal opinion.

So, I will stick to my ProPlan, but I do appreciate the link. It is very interesting to read the reviews. 

Julia


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## Joe Overby

Lgb1987 said:


> Check out dogfoodadvisor.com I am a big fan of the 4 health at tractor supply


Again, made by Diamond...did you not read the entire thread??  Or do you just not care that the company has killed hundreds of dogs and continues to operate producing the same low quality stuff that has consumers concerned??


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## ryano

waterdogs said:


> Pro plan has increase their prices as well, just paid 53 bucks for pro plan puppy and 52 for PP salmon and rice. pP sent me a email stating they will have a price increase at the 1st of the year, but looks like they did it already. I am going to check the price of eukanuba and some others. I want to feed the best for my labs but within a good price point. We may all to get together and see if we can purchase a pallet of food and split it up. Just a thought



I dont know if you have a Petsmart nearby or not or if you have already swapped food but I have never paid over 45.00  taxes included a bag for PPP (called Pro Plan Sport now) at Petsmart.

I just bought a bag there a week ago for 39.75 taxes included. Petsmart runs sales on Pro Plan ALL the time.


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## JuliaH

The price of PPP is why I have tried other dog foods, but I will stay with it now because the dogs pay a price every time I have tried less expensive dog foods (I have 10 dogs) .... my hubby and I took off to Petsmart yesterday for one of their sales. Bought all they had!

Also wound up with a puppy.... dang it!  Some guy came in with a cute little red pup, so I will have a pup to give away. He should be about a medium size dog, and I couldn't ignore the "problem"...

Julia




ryano said:


> I dont know if you have a Petsmart nearby or not or if you have already swapped food but I have never paid over 45.00  taxes included a bag for PPP (called Pro Plan Sport now) at Petsmart.
> 
> I just bought a bag there a week ago for 39.75 taxes included. Petsmart runs sales on Pro Plan ALL the time.


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## SonyaS

What about PMI Exclusive (Purina)? The feed store said that can order that for me. Ingredients look pretty good....Lamb, brown rice, glucosamine, flax seed oil, etc...

http://www.exclusivepetfood.com/dog/ECMD2-0031756.aspx

I want something I can buy locally. Just placed an order for a few bags and it ain't cheap, $43 for 35 lbs but the ingredients do look pretty darn good. Then again so did Diamond!


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## Joe Overby

Joe Overby said:


> Try PMI Exclusive...also look into Native, Country Vet, Loyall, and Fromm.  Also, be careful as there are several other brands that are manufactured by Diamond...Taste of the Wild and Tractor Supply Company's "4Health" brand are 2 of them...Dog food is like gas these days...we have to have it, it needs to be quality, it's already expensive, and they keep raising the dang prices!!!



I ordered 5 bags this week...will let you know what I think...


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## krazybronco2

Joe Overby said:


> I ordered 5 bags this week...will let you know what I think...



joe how much did you pay a bag? i just looked at loyall and the exclusive really liked exclusive performance just need to see the price on it.

liked loyall for the price i could find on the web $37 for a 50LB bag isnt bad and ingredents didnt look all that bad.


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## huntchesies

Ill continue to feed black gold.


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## Joe Overby

Exclusive is $35 for 35lbs...abt a dollar a lb.  I know that 
Loyall is a tiny bit cheaper but Loyall is all "meal" and Exclusive's #1 ingredient is chicken...so I went that route.


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> Exclusive is $35 for 35lbs...abt a dollar a lb.  I know that
> Loyall is a tiny bit cheaper but Loyall is all "meal" and Exclusive's #1 ingredient is chicken...so I went that route.



Do you know what the price was for Adult Lamb and Rice? I wonder now if I should have asked the feed store to price the chicken instead.  I am paying 42 or 43 for a 35 lb bag. My dogs are mostly couch potatoes (except for Coonhound and he sure doesn't need high performance food to make him more hyper, in fact I wish they made a high quality "lower performance" food to slow him down) so everybody is on regular adult.

I will call them tomorrow to check the price on the chicken and rice.


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## Joe Overby

Sonya, I did not price the lamb and rice...but I can check tues when i pick up my shipment.


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## grouper throat

River run 24/20 (nutrena). I feed 6+ dogs year around and they stay healthy but in shape. Mine are much more active than most sporting dogs though so I wouldn't know if you would need active type ratios year around.

Black gold would be my second choice.


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## Joe Overby

I feed a 30/20 year round to my adult dogs and my puppy food is 26/14...our sporting dogs need more than a 24/20 generally just to maintain weight.

Diamond would be my absolute choice.....black gold would be second to last....


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> Diamond would be my absolute choice.....black gold would be second to last....



Think you meant to say Diamond would be your absolute LAST choice.


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## Folsom

interesting thread on loyall on RTF
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?93803-Loyall-Dog-Food/page2


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## huntchesies

Yeah everybody has an opinion that's for sure.  I'll stick to feeding black gold and yall can stick to what you like to feed.  If you don't want somebody's opinion then don't ask what you feed or what you recommend.


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## Joe Overby

SonyaS said:


> Think you meant to say Diamond would be your absolute LAST choice.



Yes, thank you for catching that horrible error!!  I should be flogged publically for that!!  If there were no more dog food on earth I wouldn't feed Diamond...


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## Joe Overby

huntchesies said:


> Yeah everybody has an opinion that's for sure.  I'll stick to feeding black gold and yall can stick to what you like to feed.  If you don't want somebody's opinion then don't ask what you feed or what you recommend.



Dont get your feelings hurt because somebody doesn't like your brand of dog food.  I didn't arrive at the decision not to feed it by not have ever trying it.  I have tried it, the dogS did not do well on it at all...coats were poor, weight management was awful, and performance and stamina suffered.  I'm glad it works for you but in my opinion...theres that word again...there are better foods out there.  FWIW, I don't like Pro Plan either...for the same reasons....and we won't even go into stool quality or amount...


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## brownceluse

My vet feeds this to his hunting labs and his coon dogs. I fed Pro Plan until I made the switch. To each his own... http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-1115-southern-states-advance-active-dog-food-40lb.aspx


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## GadawgJC

I have been feeding my new lab puppy blue buffalo wilderness. Was recomended bc of the high protein content and meat being the first ingredients. I'm currently starting to train the dog what are y'alls opinions on the brand?


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## SonyaS

Joe Overby said:


> I ordered 5 bags this week...will let you know what I think...



Joe PMI Exclusive has a frequent buyer/free bag deal through retailers. I just called their customer service line to confirm, buy 8 bags and get one free (but the retailer has to keep track of the purchases which can be over a period of time, Purina reimburses them for the free bag).

The feed store here had no clue about the offer but say they will do it.


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## Turkey Trax

My dogs do very well on the ProPlan Performance All age (Sport now) but i am not married to nor not apt to change. its 47$ locally for a 40 lb bag i think is the weight. 
its a 30/20 formula that ive fed to my dogs from early puppy stages throughout and my dogs look good. have solid stool. and good energy. First ingredient is chicken. 

I dont feed as many dogs as joe but still (im feeding 6 right now) so 47$ per bag adds up pretty quick.


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## huntchesies

Yeah black gold don't work for every dog, especially if you don't know how to feed it. I don't care who feeds what.  I just know that my twelve year old lab still hunted this year.  The vet says he's in great shape and evidently the black gold dog food is doing a great job for him.  And unless something has changed PMI is owned by Nestle chocolate which owns purina as well.


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## krazybronco2

huntchesies said:


> Yeah black gold don't work for every dog, especially if you don't know how to feed it. I don't care who feeds what.  I just know that my twelve year old lab still hunted this year.  The vet says he's in great shape and evidently the black gold dog food is doing a great job for him.  And unless something has changed PMI is owned by Nestle chocolate which owns purina as well.



what does that mean?


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## JuliaH

Maybe I can help a little here.  I don't feed the same dog food as huntchesies, but I bet both of us pay attention to the recommendations on the bags of dog food, and those recommendations can be adjusted for amount of exercise, weight and even age requirements. This is an important part of the good that the dog food might be...

When a bag of dog food says a cup, it means a measuring cup, not a big plastic drink cup or a coffee cup, etc.  This is also important. 

This is probably a better discussion than the constant norm of argument over which dog food is best. There are lots of good ones. I have my preference, as does everyone else on this thread, and more 

I personally use a measuring cup. When my dogs get 1 cup of dog food, it is via my measuring cup. I have seen lots of others doing other things, but the dog food label feeding recommendations are based on measuring cups.

Hope this helps 

Julia







krazybronco2 said:


> what does that mean?


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## huntchesies

Thanks Julia.  Maybe some folks can understand now.  Yes I feed different amounts of feed to everydog that I have.  Some dogs get more and some get less.  Depends on the dog and what time of year and what the dog is doing at that time.


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## JuliaH

Exactly!

My feeding is twice a day. My dogs seem to think they like that best!  I tried once a day and for a month they would all sound off every time we went outdoors, so they won and I went back to twice per day...lol. 

So, I take the recommended feeding amount, adjust for activity levels, age, how hard they are to keep weight on, size of dog, mothers in waiting or nursing, etc. and feed twice per day. This usually works out to 1 cup to 2 1/2 cups per meal.  Puppies get free choice.

With that said, I feed a high protein, high fat diet as it works for all if I do my job correctly. 30/20 mixture works great but one can overfeed that easily.  For the dogs in serious training or out field trialing, no problem, feed them all they need to keep them from losing weight. For the dogs leading a quieter life, or the old ones, I do have to be more careful. 

One thing I am gonna do, to keep from confusing my poor hubby when he feeds for me is get some rabbit cage cards, blank of course. That way I can put the dog name, amount to feed, and maybe other special instructions on it and hang it on the front of the kennel. It will also make life easier for friends who feed for me when/if I go out of town for a couple days (rarely happens but now and then it does).

The most interesting problem I see is cup size used in feeding. Some folks don't think about the difference in amount of dog food they are feeding, and with all these different brands of food we like, that needs to be considered. One or two dogs, not so much a problem as well... not so hard to keep up with who-needs-what.

Julia










huntchesies said:


> Thanks Julia.  Maybe some folks can understand now.  Yes I feed different amounts of feed to every dog that I have.  Some dogs get more and some get less.  Depends on the dog and what time of year and what the dog is doing at that time.


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> The most interesting problem I see is cup size used in feeding. Some folks don't think about the difference in amount of dog food they are feeding, and with all these different brands of food we like, that needs to be considered. One or two dogs, not so much a problem as well... not so hard to keep up with who-needs-what.



I never read the directions on the bag. If I switch to a new kibble I use a measuring cup and feed the same amount as before. Each dog gets a different amount based on on weight (or more accurately padding on the ribs). Since mine range from 22 to 120 lbs they all get vastly different amounts.

Frequent adjustments based on weight is the key for weight maintenance.  Calories in and out, it is simply math.

Now if performance or coat starts to suffer, or if gas/intestinal problems are an issue it doesn't matter how carefully you measure out the food, it means the food isn't a good fit for the dog/s.


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## JuliaH

> Now if performance or coat starts to suffer, or if gas/intestinal problems are an issue it doesn't matter how carefully you measure out the food, it means the food isn't a good fit for the dog/s



I agree!




> I never read the directions on the bag. If I switch to a new kibble I use a measuring cup and feed the same amount as before. Each dog gets a different amount based on on weight (or more accurately padding on the ribs). Since mine range from 22 to 120 lbs they all get vastly different amounts.



But not all dog foods are the same, right down to ingredients and quality. But, rather than going back to which food is best, let me just say that I feed a 30/20 performance dog food and others might feed a 24/20 or a 28/16 or _____________.

That tells me that the directions on the bag are important. You would not need, or even want, to feed 30/20 ratio feeds at the same level as feed with less protein/less fat, or higher protein/same fat. You can get in trouble really quick that way.

I am glad that you know how many cups you give them, not just using a McDonald's or BigGulp sort of cup (for instance). 

One of the things I like are small, firm stools. When my dogs poop out all they take in (seems like) then I am not doing them justice. They need to use the feed they eat, not just poop it all back out  

Another part of this is that I am not overfeeding, I hope. Too much of even a good dog food can cause problems. A high protein/high fat diet like I use is good for active dogs and puppies, can cause trouble in old dogs and dogs that are not active, if not fed correctly. 

The directions on the bag + your dog's personal needs and size + level of activity + age needs are all important, in my opinion.

Julia


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> But not all dog foods are the same, right down to ingredients and quality. But, rather than going back to which food is best, let me just say that I feed a 30/20 performance dog food and others might feed a 24/20 or a 28/16 or _____________.



I always feed regular adult so the percentages are 22/12 or very close to that. Having said that I did notice they were gaining some weight on diamond, supposedly fewer calories per cup BUT it was also 23/14. Wasn't sure if they were getting less exercise because it has been cold/rainy more or if it was the food but did cut back a bit.


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## JuliaH

Ok.... the weight gain might have had to do with the ratios. 22 protein/12 fat or 23 protein/14 fat and of course the higher the fat ratio the more you can put or keep weight on. That's why my dogs need the 20% fat. They work hard when they are training or running trials... but these feed mixtures are carefully managed by good companies. 

I like being able to get to the nutritionists if needed at the company with my dog food. Have done that before, and asked lots and lots of questions. 

AAFCO statements are also important, and here is a comprehensive website http://petfood.aafco.org/

Julia



SonyaS said:


> I always feed regular adult so the percentages are 22/12 or very close to that. Having said that I did notice they were gaining some weight on diamond, supposedly fewer calories per cup BUT it was also 23/14. Wasn't sure if they were getting less exercise because it has been cold/rainy more or if it was the food but did cut back a bit.


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> I am glad that you know how many cups you give them, not just using a McDonald's or BigGulp sort of cup (for instance).



I use a pyrex (glass) measuring cup. The main reason is so that the exact amount is easy to monitor, if they are getting 2 cups twice a day and getting a little fat/thin you have to be able to adjust it by 1/4 cup or so and be accurate!

You can't easily make a 10% or 20% adjustment with a big gulp cup.



JuliaH said:


> Another part of this is that I am not overfeeding, I hope. Too much of even a good dog food can cause problems. A high protein/high fat diet like I use is good for active dogs and puppies, can cause trouble in old dogs and dogs that are not active, if not fed correctly.



Yeah "too much" nutrition can be a very bad thing for bone growth in puppies and the kidneys in older dogs. With pups I feed a high quality puppy food when small and switch them over to adult at about 5 months of age as growing too fast can cause real problems for some.  If they are burning off the calories and need it to maintain muscle/weight/energy it is one thing, but otherwise too much protein can be bad.


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## conejero

Interesting thread for me, nobody mentions Purina ONE. Lamb & Rice. I have had really good success with it as well as being able to get it easily at a pretty good price. Dogs eat it better than most, good hard, dark stool, good muscle tone, good coat. I have fed it to hard running Beagles, at this time to a 85# Chesapeake and a Mountain Cur. Ingredients seem to be very similar to Pro Plan, but lower protein and fat, which is good off season. When working hard, I do add a squirt of Cod Liver Oil, and an egg yolk.


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## JuliaH

You are so right... few mention Purina One.. I like the cod liver oil idea, probably keeps the weight up good. I will check the ingredients for sure. Might give me what I need for the older ones...

Julia




conejero said:


> Interesting thread for me, nobody mentions Purina ONE. Lamb & Rice. I have had really good success with it as well as being able to get it easily at a pretty good price. Dogs eat it better than most, good hard, dark stool, good muscle tone, good coat. I have fed it to hard running Beagles, at this time to a 85# Chesapeake and a Mountain Cur. Ingredients seem to be very similar to Pro Plan, but lower protein and fat, which is good off season. When working hard, I do add a squirt of Cod Liver Oil, and an egg yolk.


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## ryano

conejero said:


> Interesting thread for me, nobody mentions Purina ONE. Lamb & Rice. I have had really good success with it as well as being able to get it easily at a pretty good price. Dogs eat it better than most, good hard, dark stool, good muscle tone, good coat. I have fed it to hard running Beagles, at this time to a 85# Chesapeake and a Mountain Cur. Ingredients seem to be very similar to Pro Plan, but lower protein and fat, which is good off season. When working hard, I do add a squirt of Cod Liver Oil, and an egg yolk.



Ive actually been thinking about swapping to Purina One because its readily available at most stores, its cheaper than Pro Plan and its still a meat based food.

In fact, as you mention, its major ingredients almost mirrors Pro Plan Performance that I am currently feeding.


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## conejero

Best price I've found is B.J's and Sam's, they carry the big bag.


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## JuliaH

Well, I couldn't stand it... went and looked it up   Some of the ingredients in different order and 30/20 on Pro Plan Performance while 26/16 on Purina One (Chicken and Rice in this case so I could get the closest comparison). 

It is very interesting tho, and you guys might have just given me the perfect formula for my older ones!  Specially since the "by-product meal" is not first on either formula. 

I wish I could share this excel sheet here.... but I don't know how to do that.  Glad to share it via email tho.

Julia


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## conejero

Yes, I think the higher protein and fat would be good when cold and work require them, my view is that in warmer weather/less exercize, that just overloads the kidneys. Price is an issue at my house, the Cod Liver Oil and egg yolk (may use chicken necks or butcher scraps) add what they need as required under stress at low cost. By the way, I think the % are the same, but my dogs seem to think the lamb is yummier than the chicken formula!


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## SonyaS

JuliaH said:


> I wish I could share this excel sheet here.... but I don't know how to do that.  Glad to share it via email tho.



Hit the "print screen" button (top row of keyboard) while viewing the spreadsheet and then open paint and "paste". Trim as desired. Save it as a gif or jpg. Shot is limited to what you actually see on the screen so choose the best info.


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## waterdogs

I had a Purina rep tell me a few years ago that Purina One is the same as Pro Plan, and that Purina One is made to sell at mass merchants location, where Pro Plan is not. I dont know about it, but thats what I was told


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## huntchesies

Waterdogs I can promise you that what that rep told you is not true.  He's not to good of a rep if he don't know his dog food.


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## JuliaH

I wish I had kept that ingredient list comparing the two that interested me most (Purina One Chicken & Rice and Pro Plan Performance). There were a lot of the same ingredients in different order, some different ingredients too. 

I will try to redo the list and save it this time   They are not the same formula. Can't be because the protein/fat content is very different...

Julia


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## conejero

Julia, if you get that spreadsheet back, please put it up. I'd love to check it out. Waterdogs, I had a Purina rep tell me the same thing! They could be blurring the lines between "the same formula" and "essentially" the same formula, Julia seems to have done the research, and I honor that. I try to educate myself to some degree, then apply what I can make work according to my wallet, and the actual performance I am able to achieve. Purina ONE is not the top feed by any stretch, just works for me for a good balance of price, availability and performance. I think it might be a viable option to look at.


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## krazybronco2

here are the ingredents for purina one chicken and rice

Chicken (natural source of glucosamine), brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soy flakes, soybean meal, animal digest, glycerin, calcium phosphate, caramel color, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
 U-4154

so for a 65lb dog (about the size of my pup) she would get around 3.5 cups of food a day


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## krazybronco2

ingredents for the purina pro plan performance

Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, fish oil, dried egg product, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, calcium phosphate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. 
W-4461

for my 65lb pup she would get just a little less than 3 cups of food a day


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## JuliaH

Thanks krazybronco!  I have put my list back together as an excel sheet and hopefully the person who volunteered to help me will get my email. 

Without getting back into the "my dog food is better than your dog food" argument, this shows how I tend to study why I like, or don't like, certain foods and maybe it will be something that makes all of us aware of what we like to feed, and why   Anything that helps us is good!

The whole reason behind my interest in study comes from my working for a veterinarian and he thought Science Diet was great. I tried it and did not like it, and then he and I had some wonderful conversations on nutrition and I followed his instructions to find out why I thought as I did...  

All our dogs are different and have different needs. I have GSPs and Brittanys, from young (8 months is the youngest right now) to old (11 yr old) and so we all have to see what we like best and stick to it. 

The biggest thing that I do stick to is that price does not need to be the first consideration. It should be the last. The needs of the animals... be they pets or working dogs of any sort... should  be first. I have 11 dogs right now, and the cost of dog food is substantial, but my own personal goal is to not have so many that I cannot afford to feed them the way I consider right by every means. Price is on the list, but it is on the bottom, and I have tried to do differently than what works. I always wind up right back with what has been a good dog food for me and my kennel   I know others who feel the same way and we don't feed the same dog foods 

Julia


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## lilbear830

I've been using retrievers hi protein for the last year and I like it. 27% protein and 15% fat. He was on a kibbles and bits diet when I got him and went the same day to change it. His weight stays pretty steady and his coat is awesome. Might seem like a cheap food for 24 dollars per 50 pound bag but he loves it and hasn't had any problems so far.


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## ryano

JuliaH said:


> The biggest thing that I do stick to is that price does not need to be the first consideration. It should be the last.



I agree with that. Price shouldnt be a consideration when choosing dog food. I get 2 months out of a 37.5# bag of Pro Plan feeding +/- 1.5 cups twice daily. 

Works out to be about .80 a day. If thats too expensive I dont need the dog in the first place.

What is one important factor to me is availability......I can get Purina One at the local hometown foods grocery store.....I have to drive quiet a while to get Purina Pro Plan.

I probably wont switch though. Hate to try and fix what isnt broke.


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## JuliaH

It all goes back to how we decide to feed our dogs. What works for our dogs works. 

Ryano, your statement really works when you break it down. How much does it cost to feed your dog well on a healthy diet?  $.80 a day per dog is not much 

I used to get much more involved in brand that I feed vs what you feed, but that argument does not work and it makes folks angry. 

The idea of knowing what you are feeding and that your dog is doing well on it is more important and more worth a good discussion 

For myself, I have found an avenue that works, and every time I change it I am sorry, and I have always come right back.... so ok, no change any more 

Julia


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## AlexaM

Well cost of feed depends on size size of your dog. If your buddy's weight is half of yours you won't fit into 0.80$ Or you'll have to feed him with cheap trash. For small puppies it's much more easier. https://petstiger.com/ But you have to keep an eye on calorie intake and nutrients ratio.


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## Dub

Strong dog food bump !


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