# Atheist Church



## Spotlite (Jul 23, 2020)

So did this ultimately make Atheist “part” of a group  / organization / etc. with some type of format / guidelines.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21319945


----------



## Spotlite (Jul 23, 2020)

By definition, not really a church or denomination - so why would they dance all around the appearance of being one? 


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ec...he-elusive-phenomenon-of-churches-without-god


----------



## Danuwoa (Jul 23, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> By definition, not really a church or denomination - so why would they dance all around the appearance of being one?
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ec...he-elusive-phenomenon-of-churches-without-god


Money?


----------



## WaltL1 (Jul 23, 2020)

I personally look at it this way -
a gathering of like minded folks does not make a "religion" or "denomination" or the place they gather in a "church".
If it did, a karaoke club, a book group, a sewing club etc would also be a religion etc.
We all know what a church is, we all know what a religion is, we all know what a denomination is.... and this aint that.
I think this guy pretty much summed it up -


> "It's a nice excuse to get together and have a bit of a community spirit but without the religion aspect," says Jess Bonham, a photographer.


----------



## hummerpoo (Jul 23, 2020)

Reminds me of "CHOP", in that it is the "against" that is the catalyst; and without the catalyst, it's right back to the 40+ disconnected ideas wandering around looking for fellowship.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jul 23, 2020)

hummerpoo said:


> Reminds me of "CHOP", in that it is the "against" that is the catalyst; and without the catalyst, it's right back to the 40+ disconnected ideas wandering around looking for fellowship.


I think we would have to define "against".
I'm against the claim that a (G)god (any of them) in fact exists.
I'm not against the possibility that a g(G)od exists or against religion in that I think it should be outlawed etc.
I do agree with you on this -


> looking for fellowship


Heck, folks looking for fellowship is why GON exists.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jul 23, 2020)

> It feels like a stand-up comedy show.



It sounds like one too.  Only thing missing is a Drag Queen story time, .......OH WAIT!!!!


> There is a reading from Alice in Wonderland


----------



## WaltL1 (Jul 23, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> It sounds like one too.  Only thing missing is a Drag Queen story time, .......OH WAIT!!!!


Pretty much the opposite of what you would expect from a church/religion/denomination aint it?
Maybe because thats ^ not what it is?

You gotta admit though some of that nonsense like Benny Hinn is pretty dang comical.
Or pretty dang sad depending on how you look at it.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jul 23, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> Pretty much the opposite of what you would expect from a church/religion/denomination aint it?
> Maybe because thats ^ not what it is?
> 
> You gotta admit though some of that nonsense like Benny Hinn is pretty dang comical.
> Or pretty dang sad depending on how you look at it.



Call it what you want, but a routine meeting of people with the same philosophical beliefs about God I call church.  Funny thing is it's almost like they attempted to mimic the framework of traditional church, just substituting different props.  I have no idea why they would attempt that.  I mean, if you have the opportunity to start from scratch and go in any direction you could conceivably desire, why pick a "church" framework to begin with, especially if you're an atheist.  There's a lot in the framework of a traditional Church service I would change if I could,.... it just baffles me.  Anyway, to each his own.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jul 23, 2020)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Call it what you want, but a routine meeting of people with the same philosophical beliefs about God I call church.  Funny thing is it's almost like they attempted to mimic the framework of traditional church, just substituting different props.  I have no idea why they would attempt that.  I mean, if you have the opportunity to start from scratch and go in any direction you could conceivably desire, why pick a "church" framework to begin with, especially if you're an atheist.  There's a lot in the framework of a traditional Church service I would change if I could,.... it just baffles me.  Anyway, to each his own.





> but a routine meeting of people with the same philosophical beliefs about God I call church.


We differ on that ^.
If 3 Christians carpooled to work every day are they driving in a "church"?
Their meeting is routine. They have the same philosophical beliefs about God.
If they only happened to talk about politics on certain days is the car a church?
If 3 Atheist women are in a book club and meet once a week to discuss books, is where they meet called a "church"?
Routine meeting. Same philosophical beliefs about God.
I view "church" as wherever God is being worshipped be that a trout stream or mountain top or deer stand or a building.
To me its the worshipping of God that makes a place a church. Wherever or whatever that place may be.


----------



## Spotlite (Jul 23, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I personally look at it this way -
> a gathering of like minded folks does not make a "religion" or "denomination" or the place they gather in a "church".
> If it did, a karaoke club, a book group, a sewing club etc would also be a religion etc.
> We all know what a church is, we all know what a religion is, we all know what a denomination is.... and this aint that.
> I think this guy pretty much summed it up -


I’m good with this concept. I guess where I differ is the lumping of some groups as “religious” because they gather at a church building and call themselves “religious”.

But to be fair, those folks do claim religion. And with these Atheist, it’s referred to as Atheist Church. And Church (building) is a place used for Christian activities. 

Just seems strange that a group that doesn’t believe in God uses something akin to a God / god for their gatherings. It’s almost like sarcasm - what could we call a group that gathers at Christmas Eve at the chimney and goes through the motions of mimicking waiting on Santa? Definitely couldn’t take them as serious???


----------



## WaltL1 (Jul 23, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> I’m good with this concept. I guess where I differ is the lumping of some groups as “religious” because they gather at a church building and call themselves “religious”.
> 
> But to be fair, those folks do claim religion. And with these Atheist, it’s referred to as Atheist Church. And Church (building) is a place used for Christian activities.
> 
> Just seems strange that a group that doesn’t believe in God uses something akin to a God / god for their gatherings. It’s almost like sarcasm - what could we call a group that gathers at Christmas Eve at the chimney and goes through the motions of mimicking waiting on Santa? Definitely couldn’t take them as serious???





> And with these Atheist, it’s referred to as Atheist Church.


I personally disagree with those Atheists use of the word Church.
In fact, their use of "Atheist Church" guarantees that I wouldnt set foot in any of their meetings even if all they talked about was hunting or fishing or hot women.
As I said above, church, in my opinion, is a place where God is worshipped. If you arent worshipping God then you arent in a church.
Even if the Atheists literally met in an actual church, it then just becomes a building for the amount of time they are there. If that makes any sense.


----------



## hummerpoo (Jul 23, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I think we would have to define "against".
> I'm against the claim that a (G)god (any of them) in fact exists.
> I'm not against the possibility that a g(G)od exists or against religion in that I think it should be outlawed etc.
> I do agree with you on this -
> ...


Yah...The object of the againstness doesn't have to be specific...anything religious, even vaguely religious, will produce the catalytic effect.


----------



## Spotlite (Jul 23, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I personally disagree with those Atheists use of the word Church.
> In fact, their use of "Atheist Church" guarantees that I wouldnt set foot in any of their meetings even if all they talked about was hunting or fishing or hot women.
> As I said above, church, in my opinion, is a place where God is worshipped. If you arent worshipping God then you arent in a church.
> Even if the Atheists literally met in an actual church, it then just becomes a building for the amount of time they are there. If that makes any sense.


I’m on the same page with ya here.


----------



## welderguy (Jul 25, 2020)

I'm just thankful there's a church that transcends all of man's churches.


----------



## LTFDretired (Aug 8, 2020)

They have lost whatever they could have had. No sure what point denial will accomplish. Misery loves company I reckon.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2020)

If Atheism is a religion as some claim, wouldn't they need a church?


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Or, many have always been Conservatives but just do not believe in gods and folk lore. No adaptation or adoption needed.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> Or, many have always been Conservatives but just do not believe in gods and folk lore. No adaptation or adoption needed.


I guess because I’m not an atheist I don’t understand where their moral compass comes from.  People are not basically good.  So I don’t get where their standard for behavior originates.  If atheists believe the world is ruled by these cold and impersonal forces then where does love come into the picture for instance?  I’m of the opinion that most atheists who say they are conservatives are not truly atheists.  They just want to be.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

jollyroger said:


> I watched J. Peterson debate Sam Harris on this very subject, and I leaned more towards Peterson's argument which was, in a nutshell that your upbringing in a Judeo-Christian society has shaped your morals and values much more than one thinks.
> 
> Judeo-Christianity is engraved in American society and our culture (or was), and that is the value system you absorbed whether you like it or not.
> 
> ...


I watch and read a lot of Jordan Peterson.  I don’t totally discount that at all but at some point I think if that was all it was there would be far more people living totally for themselves than there are.  I’ve read the thinkers who aren’t Christians but see Christianity as beneficial for a functional society and they get some things right but they miss the boat some too.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> I guess because I’m not an atheist I don’t understand where their moral compass comes from.  People are not basically good.  So I don’t get where their standard for behavior originates.  If atheists believe the world is ruled by these cold and impersonal forces then where does love come into the picture for instance?  I’m of the opinion that most atheists who say they are conservatives are not truly atheists.  They just want to be.


What about conservative lesbians? Are they really lesbians? I know a couple that are very conservative, very Christian, and very pro-Trump. 

I wonder if they've just found comfort among Christians and Conservatives and they maybe are really Liberals in denial.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> I guess because I’m not an atheist I don’t understand where their moral compass comes from.  People are not basically good.  So I don’t get where their standard for behavior originates.  If atheists believe the world is ruled by these cold and impersonal forces then where does love come into the picture for instance?  I’m of the opinion that most atheists who say they are conservatives are not truly atheists.  They just want to be.


I guess maybe by living in a Christian nation they adapted Christian morals and values. Our God gave us our righteousness but it didn't work, thus he gave us a way out by Jesus being that righteousness for us. Seems like our God given morals were just to show us we ain't no good.

On the other hand in a Hindu nation, their god or god's gave them their morals and values. Perhaps just believing in a God or gods or a nation that mostly believes in a God or gods, gives one their morals and values.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

Artfuldodger said:


> I guess maybe by living in a Christian nation they adapted Christian morals and values. Our God gave us our righteousness but it didn't work, thus he gave us a way out by Jesus being that righteousness for us. Seems like our God given morals were just to show us we ain't no good.
> 
> On the other hand in a Hindu nation, their god or god's gave them their morals and values. Perhaps just believing in a God or gods or a nation that mostly believes in a God or gods, gives one their morals and values.


You and I disagree on America being a Christian nation.  In name only.  Look around.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

Artfuldodger said:


> What about conservative lesbians? Are they really lesbians? I know a couple that are very conservative, very Christian, and very pro-Trump.
> 
> I wonder if they've just found comfort among Christians and Conservatives and they maybe are really Liberals in denial.


Apples and airplanes.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

https://daneverettbooks.com/about-dan/about-the-pirahas/

No Christianity,  no religion whatsoever and they are a happy, compassionate and caring people.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> https://daneverettbooks.com/about-dan/about-the-pirahas/
> 
> No Christianity,  no religion whatsoever and they are a happy, compassionate and caring people.


You know this from reading an article?


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> I guess because I’m not an atheist I don’t understand where their moral compass comes from.  People are not basically good.  So I don’t get where their standard for behavior originates.  If atheists believe the world is ruled by these cold and impersonal forces then where does love come into the picture for instance?  I’m of the opinion that most atheists who say they are conservatives are not truly atheists.  They just want to be.


You are looking at it from a perspective of already being a Christian when Christianity was not the first religion and morals were in existence long before Christianity.  Christianity evolved from earlier religions so it hardly has the market cornered on moral originality. 
Morals evolved as humans did.
All animals have care and compassion,  just different levels. They worship nothing.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> You are looking at it from a perspective of already being a Christian when Christianity was not the first religion and morals were in existence long before Christianity.  Christianity evolved from earlier religions so it hardly has the market cornered on moral originality.
> Morals evolved as humans did.
> All animals have care and compassion,  just different levels. They worship nothing.


I love when atheists assume they are more educated just because they run from God or deny his existence.  Nothing particularly intelligent about that.  

Animals eat their own young to a degree that it it’s far from uncommon.  And don’t kid yourself.  Everyone worships something.  A lot of atheists I’ve known seem to worship themselves or rather the way they see themselves versus the way they actually are.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> You know this from reading an article?


I know this from reading many articles over many years written by people who lived among them.
I take it that you read the bible and articles also correct?


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> I love when atheists assume they are more educated just because they run from God or deny his existence.  Nothing particularly intelligent about that.
> 
> Animals eat their own young to a degree that it it’s far from uncommon.  And don’t kid yourself.  Everyone worships something.  A lot of atheists I’ve known seem to worship themselves or rather the way they see themselves versus the way they actually are.


I love Chocolate Marshmallow Ice Cream...
What does you "loving when Atheists "you presume they are doing something" have to do with this conversation?
Unless are you suggesting that I am an atheist and I am your example??


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> I know this from reading many articles over many years written by people who lived among them.
> I take it that you read the bible and articles also correct?


Yep.  Just trying to figure out if such a fixed opinion was from reading an article on the internet.  Atheists mock Christians for putting our faith in an “old book of stories” yet they have blind faith in things they read on the internet.  That never fails to crack me up.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> I love Chocolate Marshmallow Ice Cream...
> What does you "loving when Atheists "do something have to do with this conversation?
> Unless are you suggesting that I am an atheist and I am your example??


Are you not an atheist?  And you’re one example.  Not THE example.?


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Yep.  Just trying to figure out if such a fixed opinion was from reading an article on the internet.  Atheists mock Christians for putting our faith in an “old book of stories” yet they have blind faith in things they read on the internet.  That never fails to crack me up.


And you got your answer that it is not a fixed opinion from reading one article.  I have taken time to research whatever I could find out about that tribe over a few years.
Since we are on a whats cracks us ip admittance,  it cracks me up when people argue about something they never heard about before and also make assumptions without knowing anything about the subject or person.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Are you not an atheist?  And you’re one example.  Not THE example.?


Nope, not an Atheist.
Not Religious 
Vote 99% Republican. 
Pro gun
Pro Hunting
NRA member
Pretty much like most in here but I can admit that if there is a god or gods I certainly have no clue if any exist, which one may be better than the next or admit that based off of the complexity of something worthy of being called god is too complex for me to understand anyway.
If a god wants me know it/him then a god would certainly know how to make that happen.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> And you got your answer that it is not a fixed opinion from reading one article.  I have taken time to research whatever I could find out about that tribe over a few years.
> Since we are on a whats cracks us ip admittance,  it cracks me up when people argue about something they never heard about before and also make assumptions without knowing anything about the subject or person.


Sounds like you’re mad rather than cracking up.  We’ll have to continue this later, Bob.  I’m reading in the deer hunting forum and frankly it’s just a lot more interesting than your tribe of happy Godless people.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Are you not an atheist?  And you’re one example.  Not THE example.?


And since I am not an Atheist,  I cannot be an example of what you are trying so hard to pass off as truthful.


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> And since I am not an Atheist,  I cannot be an example of what you are trying so hard to pass off as truthful.


I think you confused yourself.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Sounds like you’re mad rather than cracking up.  We’ll have to continue this later, Bob.  I’m reading in the deer hunting forum and frankly it’s just a lot more interesting than your tribe of happy Godless people.


Hey, I don't blame you for bowing out. Ya gotta stick to topics you (maybe) know about. Inspector Callahan mentioned something about a man knowing his limitations


----------



## Danuwoa (Aug 9, 2020)

bullethead said:


> Hey, I don't blame you for bowing out. Ya gotta stick to topics you (maybe) know about. Inspector Callahan mentioned something about a man knowing his limitations


Yeah that’s it.  You’re just too smart.?


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> I think you confused yourself.


Again, you pass your thoughts off as facts and that is why I addressed you.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Yeah that’s it.  You’re just too smart.?


I appreciate the compliment, but those are your words not mine.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> Yeah that’s it.  You’re just too smart.?


I get it now, You label those darn Atheists without ever knowing if in fact they even are Atheists, then you put words in their mouths and sit and marvel at yourself for them living up to your predisposed notions. If those dummies want to engage you in a conversation you are part of then you bail out because they bore you with their knowledge of things you are unfamiliar with.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> You and I disagree on America being a Christian nation.  In name only.  Look around.


Christianity is the reason Trump got elected.


----------



## Spotlite (Aug 10, 2020)

Danuwoa said:


> You and I disagree on America being a Christian nation.  In name only.  Look around.


There’s definitely anti Christianity amongst us


----------



## Spotlite (Aug 10, 2020)

bullethead said:


> https://daneverettbooks.com/about-dan/about-the-pirahas/
> 
> No Christianity,  no religion whatsoever and they are a happy, compassionate and caring people.


Interesting people. Many people assume that non Christians are miserable, unhappy and mean people.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 10, 2020)

Jesus said if you ain't with me, you are agaisnt me.

Seems like maybe Christians have a right to be anti-atheist or anti-Hindu but Atheist shouldn't be anti-Christian?

Just seems like many Christians feel Atheist are more anti-Christian that Christians being anti-Atheism or anti-Hinduism. But to a certain extent, Christians are suppose to be.

Probably for a Christian is to find that balance of not wanting to be a part of Atheism, but at the same time, give them equal rights with Christians. Would this also apply to the Hindu or is that apples and oranges?

I think that what many Christians see as an Athest being anti-Christian is more about wanting equality than actually being anti-Christian.

What many Athiest see as a Christian being anti-Atheist, is really just a part of their beliefs and dogma. As a Christian if I condone too much atheism or even homosexuality, then It appears I may have ventured too far from the Christian life.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 10, 2020)

I only mention homosexuality as it is associated with Atheism by most Evangelical Christians. Evangelical Christians also associate Atheism and homosexuality with Liberalism.

While most on this forum probably don't agree with most Evangelical Christians in that respect.

It's just as a whole, we normally assocaite Atheism with Liberalism. We normally associate Christianity with Conservatism. Yet we do know those lines don't exist.


----------

