# I can't remember in which thread "ice ages" were discussed



## oldfella1962 (Jul 3, 2022)

I hate when my memory fails me! That said, somebody in the AAA forum world was having a hard time believing ice ages and wide scale glaciation.
I can't believe I never thought of it at the time, but here is something that might clear it up:
ANTARCTICA!  Right here in the year 2022 we have* an entire continent *that is 99 percent ice. 70 percent of the world's freshwater is locked up in the ice of Antarctica. The ice sheets are over a MILE THICK! Granted Antarctica's continued existence might not jive with the Biblical world flood story, but young Earthers have theories about it of course. 
Amazingly they have fossilized trees there! Now of course there are now no trees and very little vegetation of any kind. 

For something to help explain *why we had ice ages in the pas*t, here is a link. But bottom line the cause is a_ slight _wobble in the Earths angle of tilt as it orbits the sun. It doesn't take much of a temperature change to trigger an ice age, and of course the Earth currently still has glaciers all over the world at very high elevations.
*Africa* (Mt. Kilimanjaro) has the Furtwangler _Glacier_ at the top. Yes, Africa has a mountain where the snow/ice never melts. 

Ice Ages Blamed on Tilted Earth | Live Science


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## Spotlite (Jul 3, 2022)

Could be in many because we tend to touch everything in every thread lol but this was the latest thread, I believe. 

https://forum.gon.com/threads/the-catholic-church-and-evolution.1019981/


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

Found it! Anyway, spot lite had a hard time visualizing year-round freezing temperatures.

"So my only point of all this rambling is how much blind faith one puts into science. Let’s face it, the flood sounds as wild as freezing summers. The only difference is science tells you what they say is fact or evidence and unless you’ve actually put the test to test yourself……..of course gravity is an easy one, throw a rock in the air and watch it fall.

I mean how many folks do you know that might know someone that has seen a frozen summer?? Unless you’re a scientist most of their language has to be looked up and they tell you this means thus and that means that abs without seeing any of it in motion…….you just believe it’s true.


Sone here think their distance cousin is chimp because science told them so.

Posting links isn’t proof of anything except finding a link that agrees with your thinking. The research in that link belongs to someone else - you’re just trusting it’s true." 

So I hope Antarctica with mile thick ice sheets spurred your interest, and the link about the wobble in the Earth's tilt angle for causing ice ages.


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## Spotlite (Jul 4, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Found it! Anyway, spot lite had a hard time visualizing year-round freezing temperatures.
> 
> "So my only point of all this rambling is how much blind faith one puts into science. Let’s face it, the flood sounds as wild as freezing summers. The only difference is science tells you what they say is fact or evidence and unless you’ve actually put the test to test yourself……..of course gravity is an easy one, throw a rock in the air and watch it fall.
> 
> ...


Yea what animals went extinct because of Antarctica?

I know there are areas of isolation but to the extent of extinction is a little larger……and areas that changed from normal environment.


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> Yea what animals went extinct because of Antarctica?
> 
> I know there are areas of isolation but to the extent of extinction is a little larger……and areas that changed from normal environment.



Great question!  I never actually considered how Antarctica's history factors into now obviously changed ecosystems. I'm going to research that.
Here is one link to get us started. 

Antarctic prehistory – Australian Antarctic Program (antarctica.gov.au)


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

So, are you meaning as far as ice ages in general (aside from Antarctica) what went extinct? In other words, as ice advances & retreats some animals & birds can just move, so in that case the glaciation wouldn't be the only cause of their extinction.
But apparently about 35 species of large animals went extinct during the last ice age (ending 11,000 years ago or so) but the last ice age was not a "major" extinction event when they classify it. The last ice age fascinates me because it's relatively recent and modern humans would have experienced it. And frozen, intact mammoths are still being discovered in our northern latitudes. One mastodon skeleton was found in Ohio in 1989 while digging a golf course pond!  See second link for that.

Ice Age Extinctions: What Happened? (moas.org) 

Burning Tree Mastodon - Wikipedia


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## bullethead (Jul 4, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> So, are you meaning as far as ice ages in general (aside from Antarctica) what went extinct? In other words, as ice advances & retreats some animals & birds can just move, so in that case the glaciation wouldn't be the only cause of their extinction.
> But apparently about 35 species of large animals went extinct during the last ice age (ending 11,000 years ago or so) but the last ice age was not a "major" extinction event when they classify it. The last ice age fascinates me because it's relatively recent and modern humans would have experienced it. And frozen, intact mammoths are still being discovered in our northern latitudes. One mastodon skeleton was found in Ohio in 1989 while digging a golf course pond!  See second link for that.
> 
> Ice Age Extinctions: What Happened? (moas.org)
> ...


Not mention that the end of the last Ice Age killed off such species like Woolly Mammoths who were built to survive colder climates and differnt food sources which changed after the Ice left.


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## Spotlite (Jul 4, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> So, are you meaning as far as ice ages in general (aside from Antarctica) what went extinct? In other words, as ice advances & retreats some animals & birds can just move, so in that case the glaciation wouldn't be the only cause of their extinction.
> But apparently about 35 species of large animals went extinct during the last ice age (ending 11,000 years ago or so) but the last ice age was not a "major" extinction event when they classify it. The last ice age fascinates me because it's relatively recent and modern humans would have experienced it. And frozen, intact mammoths are still being discovered in our northern latitudes. One mastodon skeleton was found in Ohio in 1989 while digging a golf course pond!  See second link for that.
> 
> Ice Age Extinctions: What Happened? (moas.org)
> ...


Yup. That’s where I’m hung up. Animals built for the Antarctic can survive……..the problem I have is days and days and days and days and years and years of frozen weather in places it’s not supposed to be frozen to the point of extinction of animals.

“At the end of the last Ice Age in North America, about 12,000 years ago, at least 60 species are known to have gone extinct. For the area that is now New York State, this meant the loss of species such as *mammoth, mastodon, stag-moose, giant beaver, and giant ground sloth*.”


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## bullethead (Jul 4, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> Yup. That’s where I’m hung up. Animals built for the Antarctic can survive……..the problem I have is days and days and days and days and years and years of frozen weather in places it’s not supposed to be frozen to the point of extinction of animals.
> 
> “At the end of the last Ice Age in North America, about 12,000 years ago, at least 60 species are known to have gone extinct. For the area that is now New York State, this meant the loss of species such as *mammoth, mastodon, stag-moose, giant beaver, and giant ground sloth*.”


A switch wasn't flipped and it went from a constant 70deg to -18 deg. It took thousands of years of gradual decline.
From Pennsylvania on North we get temps below freezing for 3+ months now. It's in the 80s now. Animals do not suddenly freeze to death here in Feb. They have evolved to adjust.

12,000 years ago those animals mentioned above had multiple conditions changing more rapidly in shorter time plus and increase in Human involvement. Forests took over grazing land. Humans increased hunting methods. Those particular animals survived until conditions got to where they no longer could. It happens now.


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## Spotlite (Jul 4, 2022)

bullethead said:


> A switch wasn't flipped and it went from a constant 70deg to -18 deg. It took thousands of years of gradual decline.
> From Pennsylvania on North we get temps below freezing for 3+ months now. It's in the 80s now. Animals do not suddenly freeze to death here in Feb. They have evolved to adjust.
> 
> 12,000 years ago those animals mentioned above had multiple conditions changing more rapidly in shorter time plus and increase in Human involvement. Forests took over grazing land. Humans increased hunting methods. Those particular animals survived until conditions got to where they no longer could. It happens now.


Yea I’m just saying that sounds as wild as an earthly flood.

Animals adjust to the environment…… read what you said again, couple that with evolution……..think about both before answering how the ice age made them extinct over time.


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## bullethead (Jul 4, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> Yea I’m just saying that sounds as wild as an earthly flood.
> 
> Animals adjust to the environment…… read what you said again, couple that with evolution……..think about both before answering how the ice age made them extinct over time.


It wasnt the just the ice or cold.
The main factor is that food sources changed from grazing fields to forests quickly when the Ice receded Trees and boulders replaced grass and the large bodied animals ate themselves out of food too quickly. It took a thousand years but it happened.
Add in the human impact and it is not far fetched at all.


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> Yup. That’s where I’m hung up. Animals built for the Antarctic can survive……..the problem I have is days and days and days and days and years and years of frozen weather in places it’s not supposed to be frozen to the point of extinction of animals.
> 
> “At the end of the last Ice Age in North America, about 12,000 years ago, at least 60 species are known to have gone extinct. For the area that is now New York State, this meant the loss of species such as *mammoth, mastodon, stag-moose, giant beaver, and giant ground sloth*.”



Generally, if the animals can't deal with the cold they move. If they don't have adequate food sources where they move to, they might go extinct. Given a long enough time frame some animals might evolve to deal with the colder climate, but if evolution can't keep up with environmental change, the transitional species might go extinct. 

Interesting sidenote, the colder (more harsh, more demanding) the climate, the fewer individual species there are. For example, the interior of Alaska (possibly the entire state) only has about 30 different species of mammals! Imagine an area several times the size of Georgia with only 30 different mammals. Very few individual species of trees can grow up there, either. 
Georgia has what, fifteen different types of oaks? Alaska has zero oaks, and zero maples. How many species of pine in Georgia, a dozen or so? The interior of Alaska has zero - only two species of spruce, but no pines. You get the idea, life in a very cold climate is rough. Same thing with mountains though. At the bottom you might have a big variety of trees and animals, and as you go up in elevation it gets colder & colder until there aren't any trees, only moss and rocks and marmots and goats. At the very top there is no vegetation or animals, only snow, rock & ice. 

BTW those giant beavers dug huge, cork-screwing holes deep into the ground. I saw a display in a museum once.


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

bullethead said:


> It wasnt the just the ice or cold.
> The main factor is that food sources changed from grazing fields to forests quickly when the Ice receded Trees and boulders replaced grass and the large bodied animals ate themselves out of food too quickly. It took a thousand years but it happened.
> Add in the human impact and it is not far fetched at all.



Exactly, that's just how life works for every species. They adapt to a changing environment, or they die. If the changes come too fast, they cannot adapt fast enough and they die out. Normally changes to their environment are very, very slow but no environment is static. This is where evolution comes into play! With each new generation born, different genes are expressed to better deal with the changes in environment. Often the environment is changing because the species is expanding it's range, which naturally has a slightly different environment. Over a long enough timeframe (over many generations) the genetic makeup up the species in the new environment has changed to the point where it can't reproduce with the species in the old environment - it's now a separate species!

Not as dramatic as evolution is simple adaptation. In our own species homo sapiens for example we have blacks, whites, & asians who have genetic adaptations (over & above just skin color) that came about as we spread out from Africa into the rest of the world and encountered different climates & environmental conditions. We can obviously breed with any other homo sapiens because we are all the same species, despite our obvious genetic variation. It's just like dogs! There are many different breeds of dogs, but they are all one species.


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## bullethead (Jul 4, 2022)

Mountain Gorillas are in a similar situation. Loss of habitat and loss of food are expediting their demise. Add in human poaching and they've got one foot in the grave and another on Slick 50.


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## oldfella1962 (Jul 4, 2022)

bullethead said:


> Mountain Gorillas are in a similar situation. Loss of habitat and loss of food are expediting their demise. Add in human poaching and they've got one foot in the grave and another on Slick 50.


 
They had a good run though! But like they say, you can't fight City Hall. Inevitably homo sapiens will be gone and perhaps some species or alien species will be saying that we had a good run too!


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