# Open carry at Wal-mart



## fireman32 (Jun 29, 2014)

Had to waste a little time and money at Wally World today, and I saw a well dressed young man open carrying a semi auto pistol.  He doesn't bother me I carry concealed myself, but the service desk asked/ demanded to see his permit, which he went to his vehicle to get.
I need to brush up my knowledge, but I thought only law enforcement could demand to see a permit.


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## lagrangedave (Jun 29, 2014)

Permit is for concealed, open carry covered by 2nd amendment.


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## fireman32 (Jun 29, 2014)

That's my understanding lagrangedave, guess he is a little more understanding than I, or didn't want to make a scene.


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## cowhornedspike (Jun 29, 2014)

Permit should have been on his person and not in his vehicle anyway.
From what I understand, LEO can't ask to see it either unless related to some other probable cause situation...just carrying is not a reason enough to ask.


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## js415 (Jun 29, 2014)

lagrangedave said:


> Permit is for concealed, open carry covered by 2nd amendment.



This is an incorrect statement, and if followed will get you in a lot of trouble.

A GWCL (Georgia Weapons Carry License) is required for either concealed or open carry in the state of Georgia.

There are very few exceptions to this.

If he was inside Wal-Mart, without his License, he was breaking the law.

He is very lucky he did not have an encounter with an officer.

OCGA 16-11-126 is one of the sections that explains where carry without a license is allowed.

Join GCO and learn what we have done for Georgia's carry rights in the last 6 years.

Jerry


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## T.P. (Jun 29, 2014)

I would think being a private business they can ask because he is on their property.


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## groundhawg (Jun 29, 2014)

lagrangedave said:


> Permit is for concealed, open carry covered by 2nd amendment.



Not in Georgia.


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## Lilly001 (Jun 29, 2014)

While Ga law allows open carry in many situations I have always felt utilizing it in an urban situation where one might offend or frighten the sheeples to be counterproductive.
The sheeples vote. Thus we should try to keep their attitude at least neutral when it comes to the second adm and the shooting sports. Otherwise we risk having to expend resources to defend those rights when a little discretion would be more prudent.


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## oldenred (Jun 29, 2014)

I have always thought people that open carry are morons. Why on earth would you want to give a criminal the advantage of knowing you have a gun. That is how you get killed in a bad situation. Keep it concealed and it will give you the second or two that make a difference in those situations.


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## Big7 (Jun 29, 2014)

oldenred said:


> I have always thought people that open carry are morons. Why on earth would you want to give a criminal the advantage of knowing you have a gun. That is how you get killed in a bad situation. Keep it concealed and it will give you the second or two that make a difference in those situations.



^^^^^^ Ain't no telling how many times I have posted something to this effect! 

If I'm the crack-head and I see yo' rig...
YOU GONING TO BE THE FIRST ONE I POP!

Some folks just like to show off.

Mine is like my billfold.
If I forget it, I go back home and get it!


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## Gadestroyer74 (Jun 29, 2014)

X2 I don't want folks to know what I got they will know if I need it


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## The Longhunter (Jun 29, 2014)

O.K. it's not all that simple.

The property owner has the right to ask someone carrying a firearm to leave the premises, permit or no permit (no permit being illegal, but that's another discussion).

Therefore, short of kicking the gun toter off the premises, the property owner can ask the see the person's permit, to allow them continued access to the property.  The other option they have is to tell the gun toter to get the [heck] off the property.

So while not stated in those terms, it is the *gun carrier's option* to show Wal Mart his permit, or go home.

Wal-Mart can tell him to leave, permit or no permit.

It's not a 2nd Amendment issue, because like the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments, the Constitution only proscribes governmental action.  Wal Mart isn't the government, yet.

Frankly, I'm surprised that WM let him carry openly even after showing his permit.  WM is more open minded than I thought.

All the "open carry" advocates need to understand that it is perfectly within a private property owner's right to not allow open carry, permit or not.  If the property owner feels that your open carry is adversely affecting the other customers, or somehow disrupting his business, he can tell you to take a hike.  That's a fact.


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## fireman32 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well then, I stand corrected.  I agree with the open carry being not the best option for public places.  He is not the first person I've seen in Walmart that open carries. There have been at least 4 in the past month or two, all younger males.  
I also had a conversation  with a female relative of mine, one of her kids is big in soccer in the Atlanta area, and she was complaining of a man who often open carries at the games. The Org. and all the parents tried to stop his actions, but failed. He  in my opinion, should have been a little more low key.  She also hates AR style rifles, and wonders why anyone would need one, they're  certainly no good for hunting.  I explained to her I have several semi auto rifles and pistols for hunting and such. I won't bore you with the whole conversation, but she comes from a hunting family and still can't agree with pro gunners.  We have a long road ahead of us in the gun debate, it's hard to educate people with irrational fear.


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## watermedic (Jun 29, 2014)

They can ask him to leave but no one can ask to see his permit unless he has committed another crime. Not even LEO. 

The new laws have fixed that.


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## SGADawg (Jun 29, 2014)

I have seen folks open carry at our Walmart frequently, I've done it myself on rare occasions. I have never known of management or anyone else questioning it. You are required to have your permit on you while carrying.

The Georgia Weapons License is required to carry openly or concealed in Ga. Walmart or Leo's don't have legal standing to ask to see your permit unless the Leos have reasonable suspicion of a crime.


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## speedcop (Jun 29, 2014)

oldenred said:


> I have always thought people that open carry are morons. Why on earth would you want to give a criminal the advantage of knowing you have a gun. That is how you get killed in a bad situation. Keep it concealed and it will give you the second or two that make a difference in those situations.



you took the words right out of my mouth. While I respect any and all persons right to the 2A sometimes I wonder where the common sense of self preservation went. A deserving assailant should never see it untill the flash.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Jun 29, 2014)

speedcop said:


> you took the words right out of my mouth. While I respect any and all persons right to the 2A sometimes I wonder where the common sense of self preservation went. A deserving assailant should never see it untill the flash.



I tend to agree if the primary risk assessments are human predators.  But open carry makes more sense (faster draw, greater accessibility) for some situations such as snake shot and other defense against wild animals.

There may be other limited circumstances where open carry serves as an effective deterrent.  I've known owners and employees of gun shops to carry openly and that kinda makes sense.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 29, 2014)

I open carry on rare occasions like during deer season. I like to have a revolver on me in the woods for hogs and such. My 12y/o son is usually carrying the rifle, and I won't let him tote it with one in the chamber, so I carry my .44 Redhawk w/ 8-1/2 barrel. When we come out of the woods and I need to go in a store, whether it is the hardware store or Wally World, I don't take the time to remove the holster and pistol. '

Besides, there is another one on me somewhere anyway.


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## cowhornedspike (Jun 30, 2014)

watermedic said:


> They can ask him to leave but no one can ask to see his permit unless he has committed another crime. Not even LEO.





SGADawg said:


> The Georgia Weapons License is required to carry openly or concealed in Ga. Walmart or Leo's don't have legal standing to ask to see your permit unless the Leos have reasonable suspicion of a crime.



Not accurate.
WalMart has every legal right to ask. You are on their private property.
You have every legal right to refuse to show it.
They have every legal right to throw you out...or not...not because you are illegal but because it is their private property.
LEO is Govt and they can't ask without reasonable cause BUT WalMart can.

Neither will ask if you carry properly concealed.

I don't carry open for this reason and pretty much agree with moron statement posted earlier.


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## watermedic (Jun 30, 2014)

Sorry but I don't think so.

If that were true then the little security guard in the white truck with the flashing yellow light could ask to see your drivers license also.

If it is not posted "no weapons allowed" then carry on!!

I choose to carry concealed and have never open carried in public.


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## NOYDB (Jun 30, 2014)

All the thugs wear holsters! Every video over the counter at the stop and robs show the thugs removing their gat from their Sam Browns before stealing the till. 

One of the hallmarks of the Sheeple is mindless stupidity with no correlation with reality.


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## oldenred (Jun 30, 2014)

LittleDrummerBoy said:


> I tend to agree if the primary risk assessments are human predators.  But open carry makes more sense (faster draw, greater accessibility) for some situations such as snake shot and other defense against wild animals.
> 
> There may be other limited circumstances where open carry serves as an effective deterrent.  I've known owners and employees of gun shops to carry openly and that kinda makes sense.



Wrong! Concealed carry is just as fast if you train as you fight. Feel free to open carry. You're the first one the meth head will shoot because he doesn't fear your gun since he already knows it's there. Concealed or open you have to train on drawing and target acquisition in order to be ready for a hostile situation.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Jun 30, 2014)

oldenred said:


> Wrong! Concealed carry is just as fast if you train as you fight.



I've been an NRA certified pistol trainer for many years, and this is just not so.  Time disparities are even greater if one hand is injured or occupied and one handed draw is necessary (if the weak hand is unavailable to sweep the cover garment out of the way).  

Training is important and can greatly improve times.  But drawing and accurately firing a concealed handgun is rarely as fast as drawing and accurately firing an unconcealed handgun.  With two hands free, one might trim the average time disparity down to 0.1 to 0.2 seconds with lots of training.  One handed, I doubt most shooters will ever come that close for concealed vs. open carry time differentials.  

If the primary threat assessment is snakes, bears, mountain lions, etc.  open carry probably makes more sense.


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## The Longhunter (Jun 30, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> Not accurate.
> WalMart has every legal right to ask. You are on their private property.
> You have every legal right to refuse to show it.
> They have every legal right to throw you out...or not...not because you are illegal but because it is their private property.
> ...



This is correct and everyone should read it, and pay attention.



watermedic said:


> Sorry but I don't think so.
> 
> If that were true then the little security guard in the white truck with the flashing yellow light could ask to see your drivers license also.
> 
> ...




The little security guard in the white truck can ask to see your drivers license, and it you refuse, he has the same rights as if you were carrying a gun, ask you (and your car) to leave WM's property.  Just because he doesn't do it doesn't mean he can't.

It's private property -- the property owner can impose whatever legal conditions he wishes (age limit, dress code, having applicable permits and licenses), and you have the choice of leaving or not going there in the first place.

The property owner doesn't have to have a "no weapons" sign posted, the property owner can ask someone carrying a weapon to leave the property on a case by case basis.  He doesn't have to advise everyone that they can't carry a weapon, and he doesn't have to enforce the policy uniformly.   The "no weapons" notice is simply that, an advisory notice of the property owner's policy.


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## The Longhunter (Jun 30, 2014)

oldenred said:


> Wrong! Concealed carry is just as fast if you train as you fight. Feel free to open carry. You're the first one the meth head will shoot because he doesn't fear your gun since he already knows it's there. Concealed or open you have to train on drawing and target acquisition in order to be ready for a hostile situation.



This topic always heats up the interwebs with passionate arguments, but if you work with the criminal element for a little while (say 40 years) you realize that your average street level criminal does not have that level of situational awareness, especially when hyped up on drugs.  You can pretty much be carrying an AR-15 on your shoulder and the thug is not going to notice or make the connection.  By and large, they are focused on what they are there for -snatch the loot and get out as quickly as possible.

These arguments always overstate the intelligence of your average criminal -- if they were smart, they wouldn't be stealing.

In the real world, open carry is pretty much not a factor one way or another.  Several states (a lot) allow unpermitted open carry, and there is no statistical evidence that folks doing so are victimized more often.


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## steeleagle (Jun 30, 2014)

These types of discussions always leave me shocked and dismayed at how many people have no understanding at all about the constitution of this here country.  1st and 2nd Amendment does not apply in Wal-Mart.


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## T-N-T (Jun 30, 2014)

I dont know if a guy carrying his pistol openly will get shot at faster by a bad-guy.  But I think he is probably more likely to experience a crack head grabbing his gun in more of a opportunistic mugging...  (Hey there is a gun,  Im going to grab it!)
Maybe not,  but maybe...?
I will not carry openly for fear of offending a person who votes the wrong way.


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## groundhawg (Jun 30, 2014)

watermedic said:


> If it is not posted "no weapons allowed" then carry on!!
> 
> I choose to carry concealed and have never open carried in public.



The property owner doesn't have to have a "no weapons" sign posted.


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## GoldDot40 (Jun 30, 2014)

groundhawg said:


> The property owner doesn't have to have a "no weapons" sign posted.



That's right. The property owner can make up rules whenever they wish. State and local gun laws are irrelevant on private property. That's what people need to understand. If you're told to leave...regardless of the reason, you better be looking for an exit. Criminal trespass is just a misdemeanor, but it could haunt your record for years.

Part of being a responsible gun owner/carrier is respecting the rules of the property you're on. If you don't like somebody's anti-gun policy...simply don't go there.


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## CraKaLaCKiN (Jun 30, 2014)

lagrangedave said:


> Permit is for concealed, open carry covered by 2nd amendment.




WRONG! In Georgia you need a weapons permit to carry whether open or concealed. You do NOT need a permit to keep it in your car or home. Carry it on your person and you need a permit. 

LEO cannot ask to see your permit. Period. The end. Georgia Carry has sued several times and won. Since carrying a firearm is LEGAL there isn't any reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed to request to see a driver's license or CCW permit

I live in Peachtree City and carry concealed inside Wal-Mart. If I'm in Clayton County I will carry open. More than once I've been pumping gas or going in/out if a convenience store and been approached by 'less desirables'. When they see the gun on my hip their eyes get HUGE and they go the other way. It is a HUGE VISUAL DETERANT!!!

I've even heard them mumble to their buddies "that crazy mf'ing white boy has a Glock!"  I want them to think I'm a crazy pro gunner. Works in my favor. As far as being a target for the bad guys. I promise that I'll hit the bad guy LONG before he hits me.


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## CraKaLaCKiN (Jun 30, 2014)

groundhawg said:


> The property owner doesn't have to have a "no weapons" sign posted.




Actually in Georgia they do. . .


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## steeleagle (Jul 1, 2014)

CraKaLaCKiN said:


> Actually in Georgia they do. . .



Again......private property invalidates virtually all  'rights' you think you have.


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## The Longhunter (Jul 1, 2014)

CraKaLaCKiN said:


> Actually in Georgia they do. . .



Actually in Georgia, they don't.

A posted notice still requires a verbal notice to leave, and a verbal notice without a posted notice is just as effective.

In Georgia, the posted notice, the notice is nothing more than a statement of the owner's attitude toward gun toters.


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## Atlanta Dawg (Jul 1, 2014)

Many who open carry are an easy target for those who favor banning guns.  Simple as that. Too many who do this have none , or use no common sense...this does not serve us well...Just Sayin' !!


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## StriperrHunterr (Jul 1, 2014)

Atlanta Dawg said:


> Many who open carry are an easy target for those who favor banning guns.  Simple as that. Too many who do this have none , or use no common sense...this does not serve us well...Just Sayin' !!



This, and it's a tactical mistake.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Jul 1, 2014)

steeleagle said:


> Again......private property invalidates virtually all  'rights' you think you have.



Wrong.  

There are a number of civil rights that cannot be infringed on private property used as a public accommodation.  This includes almost all restaurants and retail stores.


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## watermedic (Jul 1, 2014)

groundhawg said:


> The property owner doesn't have to have a "no weapons" sign posted.



According to the new laws, if the establishment is not posted, concealed carry is allowed.

I don't care what their case by case decisions are. The only way that they will know if I am carrying is the DAY THAT THEY WILL BE GLAD I AM!


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## AM1 (Jul 1, 2014)

A police officer can '_ask_' to see your permit, or anything else he wishes to ask you. Always has, will still be able to after HB60 goes into effect. A police officer cannot '_demand_' to see it or make it a requirement/condition for detainment unless he/she feels you have committed some other criminal act. See the difference between ask and demand? learn the laws people and their subsequent terminoligies. Your life will be better with less ignorance.


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## steeleagle (Jul 1, 2014)

LittleDrummerBoy said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There are a number of civil rights that cannot be infringed on private property used as a public accommodation.  This includes almost all restaurants and retail stores.



virtually all rights...not all rights.

No religious freedom
No freedom of speech
No freedom to bear arms


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## The Longhunter (Jul 1, 2014)

LittleDrummerBoy said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There are a number of civil rights that cannot be infringed on private property used as a public accommodation.  This includes almost all restaurants and retail stores.



Despite what you think, the right to carry a gun onto someone else private property is not a "civil right."  The right to carry a gun in public is not a civil right, as demonstrated by the fact that you have to have a state issued license to do so.


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## GoldDot40 (Jul 1, 2014)

watermedic said:


> According to the new laws, if the establishment is not posted, concealed carry is allowed.



I wouldn't bet on it. IF a manager (or representative) of ANY privately owned store tells you to leave....guess what you had better be doing? There doesn't have to be a sign anywhere. They don't even HAVE to give you a legitimate reason to throw you out. If a representative of the store says you gotta go....you gotta go. Refusal automatically becomes criminal trespass. You DON'T want the cops involved. You won't win the argument.

Really doesn't even have to be about you having a gun on you. As long as they don't discriminate on the basis of disability or race or other categories recognized under the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution, you can be asked to leave for whatever reason they wish.

HOWEVER, concealed carry is exactly that. Nobody should know you're carrying if you're doing it 'right'. I'm guilty in carrying concealed in a LOT of places deemed 'no firearms'. Out of sight-out of mind. I've never been asked to leave a 'gun free' establishment for carrying...because they never knew.


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## deer30084 (Jul 1, 2014)

*concealed carry*



oldenred said:


> I have always thought people that open carry are morons. Why on earth would you want to give a criminal the advantage of knowing you have a gun. That is how you get killed in a bad situation. Keep it concealed and it will give you the second or two that make a difference in those situations.


I agree!  I like having the element of surprise!


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## groundhawg (Jul 1, 2014)

CraKaLaCKiN said:


> Actually in Georgia they do. . .



Nope.  There does not have to be any posted notice.


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## groundhawg (Jul 1, 2014)

This really does not have to do with the OP but since we started discussing it here is the part direct from HB60 regarding private property owners control.  May I have missed something and if so please share where a written notice is required so I will be aware of the changes.

"Private property owners or persons in legal control of private property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such private property shall have the right to forbid exclude or eject a person who is in possession of a weapon or long gun on their private property in accordance with paragraph (3) of subsection (b) of Code Section 16-7-21."

I could not find anything regarding the need for a notice to be posted to "opt-out" on private property.  Or if I do not want someone to carry in my house/private property where do I have to have the signs posted?  How many signs do I need and is there any certain wording or size the signs need to be?


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## The Longhunter (Jul 1, 2014)

groundhawg said:


> I could not find anything regarding the need for a notice to be posted to "opt-out" on private property.  Or if I do not want someone to carry in my house/private property where do I have to have the signs posted?  How many signs do I need and is there any certain wording or size the signs need to be?



You don't need any notice, so there are no requirements as to the physical characteristics of the notice.  The posted  notice has no legal significance, so it can take any form you wish.

Only actual notice to ANYONE you want to leave the premises counts, but the notice can be written or verbal.  All PD have a form you can copy.  There is no difference between written and verbal notice, except that written notice is easier to document.


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## watermedic (Jul 1, 2014)

My point was that if it is not posted then according to the new law the owner of the premises has basically given the okay to carry. 

If there is a sign posted no weapons allowed and you for whatever reason decide to tell someone that you have a weapon, you are guilty of a misdemeanor which is also spelled out in the new law.


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## SGADawg (Jul 1, 2014)

watermedic said:


> My point was that if it is not posted then according to the new law the owner of the premises has basically given the okay to carry.
> 
> If there is a sign posted no weapons allowed and you for whatever reason decide to tell someone that you have a weapon, you are guilty of a misdemeanor which is also spelled out in the new law.



Wrong and wrong.

If a property owner wants you off his property for any reason not deemed as discrimination of a "protected" group, he tells you so and you go or become guilty of criminal trespass.  No signs necessary.

A "No Guns Allowed" sign carries no legal weight in Ga.  As above, you can be asked to leave and become guilty of criminal trespass if you refuse, but you are only guilty of a misdemeanor for carrying a gun in one location,  church property if that church hasn't ruled that gun carry is permitted.

Edit: Should have included in places it is illegal to carry; Beyond security checkpoints in Govt. buildings and airports and certain other govt. facilities like jails, etc.


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## NOYDB (Jul 1, 2014)

Pulling my pump action shotgun from my underarm concealed holster slows me down. Makes it hard to sit down too.


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## mikey1297 (Jul 2, 2014)

js415 said:


> this is an incorrect statement, and if followed will get you in a lot of trouble.
> 
> A gwcl (georgia weapons carry license) is required for either concealed or open carry in the state of georgia.
> 
> ...




++1


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## dawg2 (Jul 2, 2014)

holy cow...Not sure where to start.

He should have had his license on his person.  Your right to carry is subject to the rules of the person whose property you are on.  Open carry in GA requires a license.


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## Bucky T (Jul 2, 2014)

I really don't understand open carrying???...

I don't want the bad guy to target me right off the get go.  You don't know if somebody with ill intentions is going to come in shooting.  But...  The bad guy knows what he's going to do, and if he sees you brandishing your piece for the whole world to see, he might decide to shoot you first..


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## dawg2 (Jul 2, 2014)

Bucky T said:


> I really don't understand open carrying???...I don't want the bad guy to target me right off the get go.  You don't know if somebody with ill intentions is going to come in shooting.  But...  The bad guy knows what he's going to do, and if he sees you brandishing your piece for the whole world to see, he might decide to shoot you first..



Me neither.


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## lbzdually (Jul 2, 2014)

Here's another question about private property since we are talking about it.  Can you tell a renter that they can't have firearms in the property they are renting?


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## StriperrHunterr (Jul 2, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> Here's another question about private property since we are talking about it.  Can you tell a renter that they can't have firearms in the property they are renting?



Since what I've seen of the law refers to home, and not house, I would imagine they could have them even if you didn't want them to. But that's speculation on my part.


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## groundhawg (Jul 2, 2014)

watermedic said:


> My point was that if it is not posted then according to the new law the owner of the premises has basically given the okay to carry.
> 
> If there is a sign posted no weapons allowed and you for whatever reason decide to tell someone that you have a weapon, you are guilty of a misdemeanor which is also spelled out in the new law.



Sorry,but that is just not correct.  Neither of your points.


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## gobbleinwoods (Jul 2, 2014)

dawg2 said:


> holy cow...Not sure where to start.
> 
> He should have had his license on his person.  Your right to carry is subject to the rules of the person whose property you are on.  Open carry in GA requires a license.



If I am not mistaken the exception is while hunting with a valid hunting license.


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## Atlanta Dawg (Jul 2, 2014)

Target stores have announced a no fire arms policy as well.


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## fireman32 (Jul 2, 2014)

So, in a nut shell, have a valid permit, carry whenever and however you want other than in the courts and churches.  If the property owner or anyone acting on his/ her behalf tells you to leave because of your fire arm, you leave or face criminal trespass.


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## The Longhunter (Jul 2, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> Here's another question about private property since we are talking about it.  Can you tell a renter that they can't have firearms in the property they are renting?



It could be written into a lease, but the only "sanction" would be to terminate the lease.

A monthly renter, no.


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## JustUs4All (Jul 2, 2014)

A rental situation is a contractual relationship between two consenting parties.  The length of the contract is of no importance.  It could be for 2 hrs at the no tell motel.  The contract can call for no firearms or no cats or no broomsticks longer than 2 ft.  

A violation would be a breach of the contract and a civil matter.


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## cowhornedspike (Jul 2, 2014)

fireman32 said:


> So, in a nut shell, have a valid permit, carry whenever and however you want other than in the courts and churches.  If the property owner or anyone acting on his/ her behalf tells you to leave because of your fire arm, you leave or face criminal trespass.



Pretty much.  I believe bars are opt-in also along with churches and the list is larger than just court houses...post office, jails, etc.


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## The Longhunter (Jul 2, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> Pretty much.  I believe bars are opt-in also along with churches and the list is larger than just court houses...post office, jails, etc.



Bars are opt out.


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## NOYDB (Jul 2, 2014)

Just don't show off or brag. Don't matter if you room with the Brady's.

I realize asking people today to keep their mouths shut is a major imposition. Go ahead pretend you matured beyond High School. Shock the bejeebers out of the rest of the world.

Good luck!


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## gunsaler111 (Jul 2, 2014)

The second amendment is well on its way out,and this thread is proof.....


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## SkintRider (Jul 2, 2014)

steeleagle said:


> These types of discussions always leave me shocked and dismayed at how many people have no understanding at all about the constitution of this here country.  1st and 2nd Amendment does not apply in Wal-Mart.



 Or if you or spouse work for walmart.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jul 3, 2014)

Bucky T said:


> I really don't understand open carrying???...
> 
> I don't want the bad guy to target me right off the get go.  You don't know if somebody with ill intentions is going to come in shooting.  But...  The bad guy knows what he's going to do, and if he sees you brandishing your piece for the whole world to see, he might decide to shoot you first..



He might, then again he might see you and decide to go elsewhere or wait till you leave. THAT is exactly what happened a year or two ago in a Waffle House. Bad guys decided to scout the place out, spotted a couple good ole boys armed with 1911s and decided to wait em out, observant officer spotted em sittin in the car parked out back and decided to check em out.

Only been a couple times I can think of where an open carry guy got ganked first. One of them was known to carry in the area and was specifically targetted it because he carried, don't think it would have matted open or concealed carry since he let it be known. The other guy simply was not aware of his surroundings. I try to make eye contact with almost everyone I come across. Want them to know I know they are there.


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## Dub (Jul 10, 2014)

oldenred said:


> I have always thought people that open carry are morons. Why on earth would you want to give a criminal the advantage of knowing you have a gun. That is how you get killed in a bad situation. Keep it concealed and it will give you the second or two that make a difference in those situations.



Agreed.


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## Dub (Jul 10, 2014)

Atlanta Dawg said:


> Target stores have announced a no fire arms policy as well.





I really hope they make this very clear with the criminals who are packing heat.




No longer can a woman cc in Target, so she can be even more exposed to harm when she's returning to her car.   Great policy, Target.

I've spent my last dollar with them.


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## cowhornedspike (Jul 10, 2014)

Dub said:


> No longer can a woman cc in Target, so she can be even more exposed to harm when she's returning to her car.   Great policy, Target.



She can CC all she wants in Target as their "policy" carries no legal weight in GA unless they know she is packing and ask her to leave...which they should *never* know if she keeps it concealed.  

Anyone who goes there and doesn't CC simply because Target says they shouldn't only has themselves to blame if they can't protect themselves when an incident happens.

I don't argue with not spending my money there though due to their attitude toward CC.


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## steeleagle (Jul 15, 2014)

gunsaler111 said:


> The second amendment is well on its way out,and this thread is proof.....



Can you please provide examples?


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## fireman32 (Jul 15, 2014)

steeleagle said:


> Can you please provide examples?



I think he's implying by the debate of this topic, that since the laws aren't completely understood by everyone, we are losing ground.  I don't think he's entirely accurate, but we should be up to date on current laws.
Wouldn't hurt to be more involved in the political process either.


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## Slingblade (Jul 16, 2014)

mikey1297 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by js415
> 
> ...






_Posted from Gon.com  App for  Android_


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## Oldstick (Jul 18, 2014)

JustUs4All said:


> A rental situation is a contractual relationship between two consenting parties.  The length of the contract is of no importance.  It could be for 2 hrs at the no tell motel.  The contract can call for no firearms or no cats or no broomsticks longer than 2 ft.
> 
> A violation would be a breach of the contract and a civil matter.



One caveat to that however, I am not a lawyer or expert, but I think it is possible to have a contract with clauses that can be thrown out in court due to violating other statutes.  For example, I think if the landlord tried to dictate the tenant is responsible for routine maintenance, it would get tossed if it ever went to court, even if the tenant signed it.

Don't know, but would be interested to know about the enforceability of a "gun ban" clause for rental tenants.


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## JustUs4All (Jul 18, 2014)

Restricting weapons possession does not violate any other statutes.  There is no statute that states that a person may posses a weapon on the property of another after receiving notice not to.  Including certain routine maintenance in rental contracts is a standard practice.


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## StriperrHunterr (Jul 18, 2014)

Oldstick said:


> One caveat to that however, I am not a lawyer or expert, but I think it is possible to have a contract with clauses that can be thrown out in court due to violating other statutes.  For example, I think if the landlord tried to dictate the tenant is responsible for routine maintenance, it would get tossed if it ever went to court, even if the tenant signed it.
> 
> Don't know, but would be interested to know about the enforceability of a "gun ban" clause for rental tenants.



I've seen judges uphold even irrational agreements made between two parties simply because the contract did exist. Not saying it's the norm, just that it's happened, even in the case of one person getting raked over the coals.


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## The Longhunter (Jul 18, 2014)

Oldstick said:


> One caveat to that however, I am not a lawyer or expert, but I think it is possible to have a contract with clauses that can be thrown out in court due to violating other statutes.  For example, I think if the landlord tried to dictate the tenant is responsible for routine maintenance, it would get tossed if it ever went to court, even if the tenant signed it.
> 
> Don't know, but would be interested to know about the enforceability of a "gun ban" clause for rental tenants.



Parties can generally contract for anything that is not illegal or immoral (and I'm not sure about that anymore).

Leases, especially commercial ones, routinely have clauses making the tenant responsible for routine maintenance.  A common one is making the tenant responsible for damages caused by clogged toilets, or damage from turning off the heat and letting the pipes freeze.   Also, clauses requiring the tenant to keep up the grounds are common.

So yes, a tenant could agree not to have any guns as part of a lease, and a breach would be grounds for dispossession.  The remedy for any of the above is not to sign leases (or contracts) that contain such clauses.


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## Oldstick (Jul 18, 2014)

I guess I gave a poor example.  I was thinking more along the lines of a landlord requiring the tenant to replace the appliances or AC unit failing due to normal usage.  Or trying to grant the police permission to conduct searches at any time without a warrant or something like that.


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## steeleagle (Jul 19, 2014)

This whole thread has really shocked me to the number of people that truly don't believe in private property rights.


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