# Folks that have their kid(s) in a private school



## stringmusic (Oct 23, 2012)

What are some of the things you looked for? I have my own ideas, but would just like to see some other ideas. My son turns 1 on the 4th of November, so I still have a few years before I find a school, but I'm looking into costs and curriculum of different schools in the area now.

Also, do any of you know anything about Bob Jones Press Curriculum? I have glanced over their website but would like to hear from someone who sends their child to a school that has adopted the BJPC.

Thanks!


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## formula1 (Oct 23, 2012)

*Re:*

I looked for:

1) A good fit for child with school, that is, will the teachers bring out the best in the child and help them through their imperfections.
2) Run by Christians who are good stewards, love Jesus, and are rigid, yet not to the point of legalism.
3) Reasonable cost and small class size
4) Probably the most important, a good witness in your Spirit that God wants your child there.  You'll know this by their love, fruits, and a inner peace.
5) A good history and academic record though many schools are relatively new.

I could add, if Mama ain't happy, nobody's happy!


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## CollinsCraft77 (Oct 23, 2012)

My son goes to Dawson Christian Academy. It's not for everyone but I can tell a difference in him. He's 11. They also have an excellent sports program. We like it


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## ross the deer slayer (Oct 23, 2012)

Have you considered covenant schools? The kids don't HAVE to be Christian(most are), giving oppurtunities for kids to witness. But for a kindergardner that might not apply as much


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

ross the deer slayer said:


> Have you considered covenant schools? The kids don't HAVE to be Christian(most are), giving oppurtunities for kids to witness. But for a kindergardner that might not apply as much



I haven't thought of covenant schools. I don't know if there is any around my area. I'm not really even sure what a covenant school is.

I tried to google it and all I got was different schools with the name "covenant" in the title.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I looked for:
> 
> 1) A good fit for child with school, that is, will the teachers bring out the best in the child and help them through their imperfections.
> 2) Run by Christians who are good stewards, love Jesus, and are rigid, yet not to the point of legalism.
> ...





CollinsCraft77 said:


> My son goes to Dawson Christian Academy. It's not for everyone but I can tell a difference in him. He's 11. They also have an excellent sports program. We like it



Thanks for the replies fellas. Do either of you know if there is a particular curriculum that is used in your kids school?


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## JB0704 (Oct 24, 2012)

A quality education was our top priority. Our school of choice had to be sacs accredited.  We narrowed down to 3 local schools.  From there, we had to determine which was the best fit for our kids.....as F1 said, would it bring out the best and help with the worst.

A good athletic program was also a must, as my boy is always playing something.

We overlooked a good bit of legalism, as any school will fit your beliefs in some areas, and not so much in others.  We figured we could counter most of the things we might disagree with from a spiritual perspective.

That being said, environment was HUGE.  Was it conducive to learning?  Was it safe?  Were the kids encouraged to be their best?

1. Education
2. Environment (which involves the spiritual aspects)
3. Athletics

We put our kid in the school that fit best.  I would have put my kid in a private school that met those criteria but was not Christian affiliated if I found one.  I was not elliminating schools because of their religious affiliation / lack thereof.

I don't know anything about the Bob Jones curriculum.


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## JB0704 (Oct 24, 2012)

Another thing.....the way we look at it is that we are educating our children, and the school is a tool we use.  That helps us keep an appropriate perspective on things, and not get so upset when they say and do things we might not agree with.  Putting our child there is our choice, and we can leave once the negatives outweigh the positives.

.....and no school is perfect.  Just go into it knowing you are not going to be 100% on board with anybody.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Thanks for the replies fellas. Do either of you know if there is a particular curriculum that is used in your kids school?



My parents sent me to 2 different christian schools. One used the Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) and the other used A Beka. We use the ACE for homeschooling.


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## formula1 (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re:*



stringmusic said:


> Thanks for the replies fellas. Do either of you know if there is a particular curriculum that is used in your kids school?



Our School(Creekside Christian McDonough, GA) uses a ABeka and Bob Jones.  You can see for yourself at this weblink:

http://www.creeksideacademy.org/about-us/curriculum


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Another thing.....the way we look at it is that *we are educating our children, and the school is a tool we use*.  That helps us keep an appropriate perspective on things, and not get so upset when they say and do things we might not agree with.  Putting our child there is our choice, and we can leave once the negatives outweigh the positives.
> 
> .....and no school is perfect.  Just go into it knowing you are not going to be 100% on board with anybody.



Very cool way to think about it! We've never looked at it from that angle. Don't get me wrong, I know that me and my wife will be the main influence on his education, but I've never looked at school as simply a tool to use.

The main school I'm looking at right now is accredited by the Georgia Accrediting Commission (GAC), and are currently seeking accreditation from SAIS-SACS. Maybe over the next 4 years they can attain that accreditation.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> My parents sent me to 2 different christian schools. One used the Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) and the other used A Beka. We use the ACE for homeschooling.



If we could afford for my wife to stay at home, we would highly consider home schooling him.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Our School(Creekside Christian McDonough, GA) uses a ABeka and Bob Jones.  You can see for yourself at this weblink:
> 
> http://www.creeksideacademy.org/about-us/curriculum



That looks like a really good school F1. I looked through most of what is taught in each particular grade. I thought the 12th grade was really cool! Especially the Dave Ramsey program, that is just awesome.

Twelfth Grade
Bible instruction focused on applying Biblical principles to live out a true Christian life (including Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University).  Math: Calculus, Trigonometry or Consumer Math.  English: grammar and composition; literature; spelling and vocabulary.  Science: Physics or Anatormy; History: Government/Civics.  Elective choices: Art, Weight Training, Band, Chorus, Yearbook, Computer Science, and Speech/Drama programs.


On a side note, and it's something I just remembered reading through those early grades, is I really hate the emphasis on cursive hand writing. Call me crazy, but that was one of the biggest waste of time I had in school. Learn to sign your name and you're good to go.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 24, 2012)

It's interesting to me how many people will kick a school out of contention because of whether or not it has a solid athletics program.


What we looked for was the highest quality education that was truly Christ centered.  Those two things are very important IMO.  Is the education Christ centered?  Are my kids going to be taught how to LEARN or how to pass a TEST?  

There are about 1000 private schools within a few counties of us that claim they are "Christian".  Most of them do not focus on Christ in any way whatsoever.

JB is right though...too many people put their kids in private schools and think that paying the tuition entitles them to sit back and let someone else educate their children completely.

That is not a biblical attitude to have regarding the education of your children.  The first responsibility for education sits with the parents.  If they choose to use a school as a tool to accomplish that, they need to be prepared to engage with that school and teachers in a BIG way.  Obviously everyone is biased toward the school they choose.  But I would highly suggest that you do a little research on "Classical Education" and then look for a school that educates classically in your area.


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## Michael F. Gray (Oct 24, 2012)

My children were educated in a private Christian School operated as a ministry of our Church. It utilized both Acelerated Christian Education and Abeka curriculims, but in recent years with greater numbers has mainly gone with Abeka. I looked for a school that teaches academics in a God Fearing enviornment. Where the dress code produces young ladies and gentlemen, and conduct is superb. A school where peer pressure is positive, that is the students encourage each other to do right. My grandaughter just completed K4, and is beginning to write cursive. She excels in math, and never ceases to ask questions, and is learning to sing Gospel songs. My dear wife has retired after almost 23 years as the secretary to the Church and Christian School. I don't regret one penny spent on a Christian Education.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It's interesting to me how many people will kick a school out of contention because of whether or not it has a solid athletics program.
> 
> 
> What we looked for was the highest quality education that was truly Christ centered.  Those two things are very important IMO.  Is the education Christ centered?  Are my kids going to be taught how to LEARN or how to pass a TEST?
> ...



Thanks for the post HF. I did a quick search and it looks like classical eduction is something that I would really like to learn more about, looks to be really practical, which is one of my top priorities in education.

The problem may come in finding a school in my area that has adopted that particular curriculum and that I can afford.


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## JB0704 (Oct 24, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It's interesting to me how many people will kick a school out of contention because of whether or not it has a solid athletics program.



Athletics are a tool for learning also.  Learning how to win / lose, teamwork, persevereance, overcoming obstacles, and pushing one's self to constantly improve are just a few of the many benefits from sports.

I know it seems shallow, but I see a great deal of value in sports beyond the physical.  We had it narrowed down to two, which were equal in all other areas, and selected the one with the better athletics program.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Athletics are a tool for learning also.  Learning how to win / lose, teamwork, persevereance, overcoming obstacles, and pushing one's self to constantly improve are just a few of the many benefits from sports.
> 
> I know it seems shallow, but I see a great deal of value in sports beyond the physical.  We had it narrowed down to two, which were equal in all other areas, and selected the one with the better athletics program.



I believe I would have done the same thing, all things being equal with two different schools. It wouldn't be my motivating factor, as I'm sure it wasn't yours, but I played sports growing up and find a great deal of value in it as well.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 24, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Athletics are a tool for learning also.  Learning how to win / lose, teamwork, persevereance, overcoming obstacles, and pushing one's self to constantly improve are just a few of the many benefits from sports.


At my school, we learned losing. We had to play flag football wearing pants, while other less legalistic schools learned winning, wearing shorts.


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## JB0704 (Oct 24, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> At my school, we learned losing. We had to play flag football wearing pants, while other less legalistic schools learned winning, wearing shorts.


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## formula1 (Oct 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> reading through those early grades, is I really hate the emphasis on cursive hand writing. Call me crazy, but that was one of the biggest waste of time I had in school. Learn to sign your name and you're good to go.



I can't disagree with you as I'm an engineer and we print everything(except signature). But that's pretty much the way all of them do now from 2nd grade on up.

FYI, my son is a 6th grader now and was at ELCA(Eagles Landing Christian Academy) prior to this year.  The expense there got us looking for alternatives and we are really pleased with his progress so far.  It has been very welcoming to him and he is doing very well.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> I believe I would have done the same thing, all things being equal with two different schools. It wouldn't be my motivating factor, as I'm sure it wasn't yours, but I played sports growing up and find a great deal of value in it as well.



Look for "The Lost Tools of Learning", by Dorothy Sayers.  It's a very interesting piece and it will introduce you to the concepts of classical education.  It's less a "curriculum" and more an educational philosophy.

The kids don't spend 12 years memorizing facts to spit back out onto a test.  They learn how to learn, how to make and argument and defend it.  It's broken into three "section" called the Trivium.  

In the early years, they spend lots of time absorbing information because that's how they learn best when they are very young.

Then on toward middle school they start learning rhetoric and how to make an argument.  That's how their brains work in those years.  They start to question things and classical education encourages them to develop that while being directed in it.

In the highschool years, they learn how to defend an argument and every subject points back to these three segments of their education.  So there's not one particular class where they learn to do this...it's in every one of them.  There's not a lot of classical schools around.  But they are definitely growing in number every year.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> At my school, we learned losing. We had to play flag football wearing pants, while other less legalistic schools learned winning, wearing shorts.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Look for "The Lost Tools of Learning", by Dorothy Sayers.  It's a very interesting piece and it will introduce you to the concepts of classical education.  It's less a "curriculum" and more an educational philosophy.
> 
> The kids don't spend 12 years memorizing facts to spit back out onto a test.  They learn how to learn, how to make and argument and defend it.  It's broken into three "section" called the Trivium.
> 
> ...



Yea, like I said in an earlier post, that seems really practical, and I like that a lot. I will definitely be looking for schools with that philosophy in the future. Thanks again for the heads up on that.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 24, 2012)

We had several choices of private schools around us, some Christian, some not. Interestingly enough, the non-Christian schools seemed to be more expensive (slightly) and were more Athletic based than Academic based, which caused us to toss them from the list immediately. We actually interviewed the Admin from three different schools and toured the facilities, found out if we had friends with kids there and got their input and finally settled on a school that met our criteria as a Christian family as well as had a strong academic program. 

Here is their Curriculum statement (minus the name of the school):




> #### offers a college preparatory curriculum based on a Christian perspective of education. The most suitable materials and resources have been selected to aid in accomplishing our objectives. ####’s Core Curriculum is based on educational goals and objectives that have been developed through reviewing the State of Georgia performance standards, national education guidelines, and selective publishers curriculum guides. Benchmarks have been put in place for each subject and grade to aid in holding to this set of standards.
> 
> #### uses a variety of publishers for its curriculum. Textbooks are chosen with much research, thought and prayer.  Both secular and Christian texts are evaluated for their academic soundness and their appropriateness in relationship to our Christian environment.
> 
> ...



Our school is SACS / CASI and ACSI accredited. 

Here is our schools Mission and Objectives statement:



> Mission
> #### exists to prepare students academically, spiritually, and socially for God's call on their lives. Luke 2:52
> 
> Objectives
> ...



First you must evaluate what is most important to you and your family in what you expect from your childs school and for your money. Next you must prioritize those bullet points and then find a school that best meets those priorities that is within or close to your budget. 

Unlike most public schools, we have found that our kid has more homework, a more difficult syllabus in each topic, and more advanced learning in each area of study. The latter demands more involvement by the parents on a daily basis in order for our kid to keep up academically. 

The school we chose (his first year in kindergarten) met all of the criteria, but most importantly upon talking with the administrators, it just felt like home, and has been the right choice through almost nine years of education now. 

Good luck in your search over the next few years. It is a tough decision.


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## Mars (Oct 24, 2012)

I went to smaller private school from kindergarden thru graduation and I wouldnt change anything about it. I graduated with 24 people and 18 of us were together from day 1. I had the oppertunity to be active in alot of sports that I likely would not have participated in had I gone to the public school. Most importantly, the education was better than what was offered at the public school.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


>


You haven't lived until you've played football in the Texas heat, while wearing jeans.

The year is 1979 and I am playing center.




The girls had to wear culottes. Culottes did not prevent me from selecting my future wife. 

Here is Jen in the left rear of pic.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 24, 2012)

Couple of things we looked for.

1.  Focused on the Heart, not outward actions/appearance.
2.  Biblical world view.


Obviously, academics were a key point....and maybe I should add that my kids go to the same school that Huntinfool's kids go to....that will keep me from repeating myself a bunch.

SACS accreditation is big.  Some Christian schools are also accreditated by ACSI (Association Christian Schools International).  People might say accreditation doesn't matter, but it is a point of accountability.  As far as curriculum...I to a Christian school thru 8th grade that used ABEKA....then transferred to the local public HS.  I thought I was well enough prepared for the honor/AP classes in public HS.

My wife did the all of the above with schooling...public, private and ultimately homeschool.  They used BJP materials and she did fine as well.  BJP is top notch in all they do...including legalism 

Start praying now.  I'm sure the Lord will lead you in the path that He wants you and your wife to go.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> We had several choices of private schools around us, some Christian, some not. Interestingly enough, the non-Christian schools seemed to be more expensive (slightly) and were more Athletic based than Academic based, which caused us to toss them from the list immediately. We actually interviewed the Admin from three different schools and toured the facilities, found out if we had friends with kids there and got their input and finally settled on a school that met our criteria as a Christian family as well as had a strong academic program.
> 
> Here is their Curriculum statement (minus the name of the school):
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks for all that info Miguel.

I really like the fact that both secular and religious text books are considered, based on research and PRAYER, that is pretty cool. I certianly don't want my son learning from a science book that is lacking in facts, only because the publishers say they love God.

And thanks for the luck too, I'm learning quick that this might be a tougher task than I suspected.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> You haven't lived until you've played football in the Texas heat, while wearing jeans.
> 
> The year is 1979 and I am playing center.
> 
> ...



 Too funny.


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## stringmusic (Oct 24, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Couple of things we looked for.
> 
> 1.  Focused on the Heart, not outward actions/appearance.
> 2.  Biblical world view.
> ...



Thanks man. As far as accreditation goes, I definitely want him to be able to go to college, if thats what he decides to do, so accreditation means a lot to me. That is one of the first things that will sway my decisions.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 24, 2012)

I was in HS in the 60's....in 65 they let us wear cullottes, finally, and that was public school. My rear end was frozen off by then, walking to school in the ice and snow in a dress blowing up over my head....
Guess that was some kind of punishment for women/girls... My bros got to wear wranglers.

I think athletics is important, too. Preteen girls basketball and volley ball are a hoot....
I, too, think it's important to learn how to be a good loser, but you need to learn how to be a winner, too.  That's what life is gonna be about. Losing some, winnin' some. I think striving to win and doing your all, equals longsuffering.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 24, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I was in HS in the 60's....in 65 they let us wear cullottes, finally, and that was public school. My rear end was frozen off by then, walking to school in the ice and snow in a dress blowing up over my head....
> Guess that was some kind of punishment for women/girls... My bros got to wear wranglers.
> 
> I think athletics is important, too. Preteen girls basketball and volley ball are a hoot....
> I, too, think it's important to learn how to be a good loser, but you need to learn how to be a winner, too.  That's what life is gonna be about. Losing some, winnin' some. I think striving to win and doing your all, equals longsuffering.



Learning to win or lose with grace and humility is paramount to everything else. Our school stresses sportsmanship as much as they do competitive athletics.

Here is our girls volleyball team with the competitors after last nights game and the caption of the picture that was posted.



> We can compete on the field of play, where there will be a winner and a loser, but when we can come together at the end of the contest and call out HIS AWESOME name, the reading on the scoreboard pales in comparison to the VICTORY that we ALL have in Christ Jesus!


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## ross the deer slayer (Oct 24, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> I haven't thought of covenant schools. I don't know if there is any around my area. I'm not really even sure what a covenant school is.
> 
> I tried to google it and all I got was different schools with the name "covenant" in the title.



I'm pretty sure it only requires one parent to be Christian and the child does not have to be. Wow I can't remember the other parts of it haha. Once I figure it out again i'll post something


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## arcaidy (Oct 24, 2012)

We put our son in Private school. I have a good friend that has two children in the same school with great results. Our experience was a disaster… I’ll lay some blame on us as parents but when we tried to get involved we were told “some kids learn at different rates and everything is OK” throughout his last year there. We pulled him out during the school year and moved him to public school. The difference in the curriculum between the two was amazing. Our son was at least a half a year behind the other students and has struggled to catch up. 

I don’t really care about the wasted money (and my opinion it was exactly that) but what it has done to him has been hard to overcome and we’re still dealing with it. He understands how far behind he was and it was very demotivating. Something like that takes a toll on a young child… 

I’m not sure what I can say to make sure nothing like this happens to your child. This school is ACSI and SACS accredited.  My buddy’s kids are doing great in the same school.  We were in constant contact with the school and involved but were always told things were OK. If you have some friends or family with children in the same grade it might benefit you to compare home work. 
Public school was going to be a stop gap fix until we found another school but we’re very happy where he is. Before this I was dead set on private school. Now I’m very leery of looking at another one…


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 24, 2012)

arcaidy said:


> We put our son in Private school. I have a good friend that has two children in the same school with great results. Our experience was a disaster… I’ll lay some blame on us as parents but when we tried to get involved we were told “some kids learn at different rates and everything is OK” throughout his last year there. We pulled him out during the school year and moved him to public school. The difference in the curriculum between the two was amazing. Our son was at least a half a year behind the other students and has struggled to catch up.
> 
> I don’t really care about the wasted money (and my opinion it was exactly that) but what it has done to him has been hard to overcome and we’re still dealing with it. He understands how far behind he was and it was very demotivating. Something like that takes a toll on a young child…
> 
> ...



This is a very real obstacle that many parents are faced with in going to a private school with advanced curriculum. Many parents in our school did hold their kids back a year before allowing them to enter 1st grade merely for developmental reasons in keeping up. We actually had our kid evaluated at the kindergarten level to make sure he was ready for the leap. 5th grade was a nightmare, but he came around the subsequent years and is doing quite well. 

Private school is a tremendous commitment for all parties involved and does bear a tremendous amount of consideration and investigation into which school is right for your kid, and the desired results. In short, on the part of the parents, it is a huge sacrifice if you aren't really wealthy and money is no problem, and at times can be a real test of faith.

We have many friends that over the years pulled their kids out and went to public school and those kids are doing fantastic, but I can't help but believe that the level of involvement required by the parents while in private school certainly didn't hurt in their transition to public school and staying on top of their kids progression there.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 24, 2012)

arcaidy said:


> Public school was going to be a stop gap fix until we found another school but we’re very happy where he is. Before this I was dead set on private school. Now I’m very leery of looking at another one…



If you are happy where he is, no need to change. Christian schools are not a fix all. In some ways, Christian schools are a farce. We can't educate our children into the Kingdom of God. I can walk you through my yearbook and show you those who are in prison, have been in prison, committed suicide etc.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> I certianly don't want my son learning from a science book that is lacking in facts, only because the publishers say they love God.





Good for you, String.  We do not want our kids sheltered from science either.  There is a lot of benefit to having all the information available when choosing alternatives. I am not a fan of sheltering kids.  I want my kids fully prepared for the harsh realities of life.  For me, that involves presenting as much information as possible.

So, when I talk politics with my kids, I give all the point / counter-points of whatever topic we cover.  It is the same with most topics we cover, such as science.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

Just curious for those who have pointed it out...why is SACS accreditation important to you?  It seems like some are suggesting that opting for a school that isn't SACS accredited will, somehow, affect your kids' ability to get into college.

Accreditation IS important.  But is there something about SACS that I'm not aware of?  I know there are some special perks like UGA automatically accepts the top two grads from a SACS accredited school.  But, otherwise, are you guys aware of some detriment to not being SACS accredited?


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Just curious for those who have pointed it out...why is SACS accreditation important to you?  It seems like some are suggesting that opting for a school that isn't SACS accredited will, somehow, affect your kids' ability to get into college.
> 
> Accreditation IS important.  But is there something about SACS that I'm not aware of?  I know there are some special perks like UGA automatically accepts the top two grads from a SACS accredited school.  But, otherwise, are you guys aware of some detriment to not being SACS accredited?



The same reason why I wouldn't go to a college that wasn't accredited.....it adds credibility to the diploma / degree earned.  Additionally, I think college scholarships, and entrance initially weighs whether or not a HS diploma is awarded by a recognized accrediting agency.

Anybody can start a school.  The accreditaion process allows schools to be compared at a glance, and whether or not they meet the minimum criteria that public schools also meet.

My kids' school is both sacs and aics accredited, but the sacs was the primary one I looked for.  It is a difficult process for a school to go through, but it shows their commitment to giving the kids as many opportunities beyond HS as possible.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Pulled this from the sacs websight:



> •Experience ease in transferring credits from one school to  another.
> •Gain greater access to federal loans, scholarships,  postsecondary education and military programs that require  students attend an accredited institution.
> •Benefit from their institution or educational system’s commitment to raising student performance and accountability.



Honestly, it gives the school a more professional appeal.....not a "mom and pop's house of learnin'" type place.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Just curious for those who have pointed it out...why is SACS accreditation important to you?  It seems like some are suggesting that opting for a school that isn't SACS accredited will, somehow, affect your kids' ability to get into college.
> 
> Accreditation IS important.  But is there something about SACS that I'm not aware of?  I know there are some special perks like UGA automatically accepts the top two grads from a SACS accredited school.  But, otherwise, are you guys aware of some detriment to not being SACS accredited?



I don't think it is as important as curriculum and SAT testing, which will reveal how prepared a student may or may not be for college. That being said, meeting the criteria to be a SACS accredited school automatically implies that these schools are in line with prepping their kids for college, but does not guarantee it.

Our particular school moved to the iLearn computer learning system this year. All classes, syllabus and all are included on daily postings online through the iLearn system. Each kid from 7th grade on up had to come to school this year with an approved computer platform (laptop, ipad, etc) ready to learn and adapt to this system. With the exception of classroom labs and a few other physical projects, all homework is done and turned in on the computer (no more "the dog ate it"), and much more flexibility in monitoring their work and progress can be seen immediately by the parents. This educational platform mimics, and is the grade school equivalent of the iCollege platform that the student will encounter when they graduate to higher academia. We have had Administrators from all over the world coming to observe our system this year in prep of moving public and private schools to this system of teaching / learning. In fact, there is already one day in November slated, where the teachers will be in a conference, and instead of giving the kids a complete free day off, they will instead be using the iLearn platform to do a distance learning day from home where the entire day of lessons, school work and home work will be laid out for them and they will have to complete all work included and submit it, where the teachers will then grade the work via their computers at the end of the day without anyone missing a lick. Pretty cool stuff, and it has not been without it's glitches as everyone comes on board with the learning curve of the software, but it is what is coming to a school near you in the not too distant future.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

But I'm not asking whether accreditation is important.  I'm asking whether SACS accreditation is, somehow, more important than some other accreditation agency.

I think SACS has become like Kleenex in our vocabulary.  There are all kinds of tissues that will do the job, but we just assume that they are all "Kleenex".

SACS is simply a regional agency that only covers a handful of states.  I would think if your kid wants to go to UCLA, they aren't going to care specifically about SACS.  They are going to want to know what his GPA, SAT/ACT scores are and whether the school has been accredited by a recognized agency.

I'm asking because I serve on a board that has specifically made a decision to not go with SACS and use other options that are available to us for accreditation.  To my knowledge, we've not run into a single issue with college admission, scholarships or student loans with our graduates.

If there is a legit reason out there why SACS is important above others, I want to make sure I know about it.  I get that it's "recognized" and that it obviously is a draw for parents.  But I'm under the impression that "the SACS mystique" is more a case of "the SACS myth" just because it's recognized more than others (which is really just because that what the public schools use).  Am I missing something?


It sounds like it's more an appeal to parents of students than anything from what I'm reading here (which is a good thing...don't get me wrong).  But what I'm more concerned about as a board member is whether there are actual academic benefits that we might miss out on.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> But I'm not asking whether accreditation is important.  I'm asking whether SACS accreditation is, somehow, more important than some other accreditation agency.
> 
> I think SACS has become like Kleenex in our vocabulary.  There are all kinds of tissues that will do the job, but we just assume that they are all "Kleenex".
> 
> ...



Maybe this link can help you with that;

http://www.msm.edu/SACSAccreditation/importance.aspx


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

HF, why did your school decide not to go with a SACS?  What was it about one agency over that one?

I believe all public schools go through the sacs process.  To me, this is a simple bar to cross to put a private school on equal footing.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

It's not simple....that's the main issue with SACS.  We feel that there are other accrediting agencies out there that sufficiently cover our needs without undue burden on the school in essentially reliquishing control over how it operates to the accrediting agency.  We haven't ruled out SACS completely.  We are just not pursuing it right now for lots of different reasons.

We are accredited under the GA Accrediting Commission (which is what is required for entrance to UGA System schools...either that or SACS) and we also use ACSI and are strongly considering going with ACCS accreditation as well (Association of Classical Christian Schools).

Like I said, we've not had any issue with our graduates in terms of admission or getting scholarships, etc.  So that's why I'm asking.  Seem like it's really a perception issue more than anything, right?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It's not simple....that's the main issue with SACS.  We feel that there are other accrediting agencies out there that sufficiently cover our needs without undue burden on the school in essentially reliquishing control over how it operates to the accrediting agency.  We haven't ruled out SACS completely.  We are just not pursuing it right now for lots of different reasons.
> 
> We are accredited under the GA Accrediting Commission (which is what is required for entrance to UGA System schools...either that or SACS) and we also use ACSI and are strongly considering going with ACCS accreditation as well (Association of Classical Christian Schools).
> 
> Like I said, we've not had any issue with our graduates in terms of admission or getting scholarships, etc.  So that's why I'm asking.  Seem like it's really a perception issue more than anything, right?



How old is your school?


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## rjcruiser (Oct 25, 2012)

As I stated above, accreditation is important.  SACS is the most well known in the south....they have one out west called WASC (Western association rather than Southern Association).  At the end of the day, whether it is SACS, ACSI, GAC, the important thing is to look into the accreditation and make sure that the standards for accreditation are set high...not just a pay and we'll pass ya type of accreditation.

But to HF's question, I guess it is a little like going to BJU compared to UGA.  Both have great business programs, just one is accreditated and more well known.  As such, one who goes to BJU has hurdles to clear before people respect the education they received (albeit probably a better one).  

I went to a small private Christian College.  When I started interviewing for accounting jobs, I had to overcome that.  My resume got less looks because I didn't have UCLA or Pepperdine on it.  Was my education any less valuable or rigorous? No....but the person looking at the resume doesn't know that.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> How old is your school?



Not terribly old.  Opened doors in 2005.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

> At the end of the day, whether it is SACS, ACSI, GAC, the important thing is to look into the accreditation and make sure that the standards for accreditation are set high...not just a pay and we'll pass ya type of accreditation.



That's more what I'm getting at.  As a parallel example, there are TONS of "beauty contests" out there that will literally give you a "Winner of Miss South Georgia" title if you pay them enough and most of them are just done over the internet.  I know because I've had girls apply for jobs on my team who listed that stuff and, when I checked it out......well let's just say it's not Miss America in terms of who they were handing crowns out to.  Further investigation showed me that you paid them for a "title" to put on your resume.



> _Use your title how you wish. It can just be something to add to a resume, or you can use your title to make public appearances, present a platform, and more.
> 
> Miss American Rose is the most respected and largest online/mail-in pageant in the country, giving out more prizes than any other system like it._



I agree that businesses sometimes look at which college you went to and discriminate based on that.  But they don't look at which highschool you went to and most colleges that I know of only care whether your schoool was accredited and what your GPA and SAT look like (along with service).


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Seem like it's really a perception issue more than anything, right?



In a way, yes.  Because this:



Huntinfool said:


> It's not simple....that's the main issue with SACS.



....is why schools abstain.  SACS represents a level of committment a school is willing to give to the students future.  A private school in Ga can be compared to a public school in Virginia, and any pulic university which recognizes that accreditation will accept the degree / credits earned.  We are not talking just in Georgia, but nationwide.  SACS is universally recognized.




Huntinfool said:


> We are accredited under the GA Accrediting Commission (which is what is required for entrance to UGA System schools...either that or SACS) and we also use ACSI and are strongly considering going with ACCS accreditation as well (Association of Classical Christian Schools).





I do see you guys are trying to make it work, and that is great.  But, again, sacs is the "standard."  I would weigh this heavily if I were in your area.  I am glad you have found ways to get your students the advantages they need.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> But to HF's question, I guess it is a little like going to BJU compared to UGA.  Both have great business programs, just one is accreditated and more well known.  As such, one who goes to BJU has hurdles to clear before people respect the education they received (albeit probably a better one).



Exactly, and that is the point.  I view sacs as a school's commitment to minimize such hurdles for students.  It is difficult to attain, and I like that, and I want a place to demonstrate that commitment.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> That's more what I'm getting at.  As a parallel example, there are TONS of "beauty contests" out there that will literally give you a "Winner of Miss South Georgia" title if you pay them enough and most of them are just done over the internet.  I know because I've had girls apply for jobs on my team who listed that stuff and, when I checked it out......well let's just say it's not Miss America in terms of who they were handing crowns out to.  Further investigation showed me that you paid them for a "title" to put on your resume.



Yup...just look at Honey boo boo.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Yup...just look at Honey boo boo.





Oh no you just didn't...


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

> But, again, sacs is the "standard."



The standard of what?  That's my question on it.  Be honest....how much do you know about SACS accreditation and its requirements?

All legitimate accreditations are difficult to obtain.  SACS essentially requires that you meet the standards they set for public schools.  Do you really want the measure of your private school to be..."well it meets the same criteria as the public schools"?  

If the public school systems can meet SACS requirements, are you really under the impression that they are "rigorous" in terms of ensuring a quality education?

This is a good conversation for me.  I'm glad it was brought up.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 25, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Oh no you just didn't...



Ugh...can't stand that show.  And let me say one more thing....honey boo boo didn't fall too far from the tree either.



Huntinfool said:


> The standard of what?  That's my question on it.  Be honest....how much do you know about SACS accreditation and its requirements?
> 
> All legitimate accreditations are difficult to obtain.  SACS essentially requires that you meet the standards they set for public schools.  Do you really want the measure of your private school to be..."well it meets the same criteria as the public schools"?
> 
> If the public school systems can meet SACS requirements, are you really under the impression that they are "rigorous" in terms of ensuring a quality education?



True...Dekalb Co is a good example on that.  However, I see the benefits as well.  My dad is in the administration of a Christian post grad school.  They go through the hoops of WASC accreditation because they see the benefit.  Every other year, my dad has to do all this work and put together binders full of wom....er...I mean policies that seem redundant and useless.  But...at the end of the day, it proves the level of commitment they have.  Gives credence to their mission of training as if lives depend on it.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> The standard of what?  That's my question on it.  Be honest....how much do you know about SACS accreditation and its requirements?



What I read on their website.  I posted a few notes from it, and I read it a TON when I was looking into colleges years ago.

The local public school is sacs accredited.  I think when we are looking at private school, the intial thought is to compare to public schools.  Sacs allows for them both to be set against an even bar.  That's what I mean by standard.  Then you can compare standardized test scores (my kid's school smokes the public system....and the county it is in is one of the better counties for public education).



Huntinfool said:


> All legitimate accreditations are difficult to obtain.  SACS essentially requires that you meet the standards they set for public schools.  Do you really want the measure of your private school to be..."well it meets the same criteria as the public schools"?



As a minimum parameter to meet.....absolutely. 



Huntinfool said:


> If the public school systems can meet SACS requirements, are you really under the impression that they are "rigorous" in terms of ensuring a quality education?



No.  That's why I said "standard."  Then we can move into the rest of the curriculum to verify the child is at an advantage at one school over the other.  Sacs just allows the two to be placed on equal footing from the outset.

I am not attacking your school.  It seems you guys are very dilligently finding ways to give the kids the best education.  I am only responding to your initial question on sacs.

But, yes, I want to be able to say my kid's school meets the minimum requirements public schools meet.  Sacs is how I can do that.  Then.....I apply the rest of my criteria when searching for a quality education.  That's all.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> But...at the end of the day, it proves the level of commitment they have.  Gives credence to their mission of training as if lives depend on it.



This is my main point with sacs and GA private schools.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

Very interesting.  I think I just disagree on what SACS accreditation tells you vs something else.  But it's interesting.  

I don't think SACS gives you any indication of how a private school performs.  Standardized tests and actual results do that.

You don't have to be SACS accredited to take the same standardized tests that other schools take and I would think that SAT/ACT scores and which schools graduates are accepted to would be a better measure.

I think our philosophy is just that accreditation really doesn't tell you anything about the school.  Careful examination of the school itself and what its graduates look like tells you more than anything.  So, right now, we don't worry terribly with what agency we're accredited through.  Just a difference in philosophy I think.

I do wonder, though, how many parents have not contacted us because they didn't see SACS on the website or something.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Very interesting.  I think I just disagree on what SACS accreditation tells you vs something else.  But it's interesting.
> 
> I don't think SACS gives you any indication of how a private school performs.  Standardized tests and actual results do that.
> 
> ...



Looking at it from purely a college prep viewpoint you may well be correct. However most parents are fully aware that any minor set back may leave them financially un-able to meet the tuition requirements of a private school and they would be wise to pick a private school that is accredited to meet, at the minimum, what they're children will need to transition into public school should they meet this challenge somewhere down the road.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> I do wonder, though, how many parents have not contacted us because they didn't see SACS on the website or something.



I know when I was school shopping I wouldn't have even considered a school that wasn't sacs accredited.  The first thing I did was look at the website...vision (mission/belief) statement, curriculum, accreditation, and athletics.  It wasn't until the school met my parameters there that I even considered interviewing the school.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

Again, I just think difference in philosophy.  We don't worry with what the minimum is for public school.  Our students are expected to excel so much higher than that, it's not something we measure against.

We believe that experiencing the classrooms and watching the students is enough to convince parents that what they are paying for is a standard that is far and away higher than public education.  We see the particular accrediting agency we use as having very little impact on the quality of the "product".

It is interesting to see that people probably just pass on by based on that though.  Something to think about for sure.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Again, I just think difference in philosophy.  We don't worry with what the minimum is for public school.  Our students are expected to excel so much higher than that, it's not something we measure against.
> 
> We believe that experiencing the classrooms and watching the students is enough to convince parents that what they are paying for is a standard that is far and away higher than public education.  We see the particular accrediting agency we use as having very little impact on the quality of the "product".
> 
> It is interesting to see that people probably just pass on by based on that though.  Something to think about for sure.



You make good points, and as far as "quality" goes, you are most likely correct.  Where I guess we disagree will be relevant to future obstacles and setting a minimum hurdle to cross.  Where you expect achievement out of your kids, a person perusing your website will not know that.  They are comparing you to a bunch of other schools.  Some are low quality, some are high quality.  Sacs allows for a minimum basis of comparison without having to take your websites' word for it.

So, I guess you could look at it from a marketing perspective also.

But, in much of what you are saying you are absolutely correct.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 25, 2012)

In Florida each public school, it's teachers, and it's students are "scored" each year based upon each students ability to pass certain State test.
So obviously each school's top priority is to teach each student to pass the state test for each grade.

It's creating some problems for students.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> In Florida each public school, it's teachers, and it's students are "scored" each year based upon each students ability to pass certain State test.
> So obviously each school's top priority is to teach each student to pass the state test for each grade.
> 
> It's creating some problems for students.



That particular problem is an albatross attributed to the Federal Government's control over a standard for education. Personally I wish the Fed's would get out of the education business and let each state manage that program. It has boiled down to public schools (not all) teaching to the test and not the subject at hand.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That particular problem is an albatross attributed to the Federal Government's control over a standard for education. Personally I wish the Fed's would get out of the education business and let each state manage that program. It has boiled down to public schools (not all) teaching to the test and not the subject at hand.



Agree.  When my kid was in public school they were definitely taught to the test.  It was a huge deal every year.  That's not why I took him out, but it was a nice change when we went the private school route.  Now, my kid is taught the material.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

HF, I should also point out that I do believe yoru kids are probably getting a better education than most of the local public and private schools which are sacs accredited.  It sounds as if y'all put a heavy emphasis on quality, and that is a very good thing.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 25, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> HF, I should also point out that I do believe yoru kids are probably getting a better education than most of the local public and private schools which are sacs accredited.  It sounds as if y'all put a heavy emphasis on quality, and that is a very good thing.



One obstacle I have seen reported by the parents that can no longer afford private school education and had to transfer their kids to public school, is the method of teaching being used between the two. Most Public schools teach in blocks, spending hours in a classroom on a specific subject, rotating those subjects each day. Whereas most private schools do it the old school way of 7 period (subject) days. The difference puts public school students ahead of the curriculum on any specific subject in terms of study, but not necessarily understanding of the same. Advanced students in private school rarely have a problem with the conversion, but average students do require some catching up to be allowed in the same classes with their peers.

That being said, public schools are slowly realizing that 4 or more hours on one subject causes a loss of attention on the part of the student and many of them are starting to revert back to the schedule of teaching that many private schools have used as the standard.


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## JB0704 (Oct 25, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> One obstacle I have seen reported by the parents that can no longer afford private school education and had to transfer their kids to public school, is the method of teaching being used between the two. Most Public schools teach in blocks, spending hours in a classroom on a specific subject, rotating those subjects each day. Whereas most private schools do it the old school way of 7 period (subject) days. The difference puts public school students ahead of the curriculum on any specific subject in terms of study, but not necessarily understanding of the same. Advanced students in private school rarely have a problem with the conversion, but average students do require some catching up to be allowed in the same classes with their peers.
> 
> That being said, public schools are slowly realizing that 4 or more hours on one subject causes a loss of attention on the part of the student and many of them are starting to revert back to the schedule of teaching that many private schools have used as the standard.



Interesting.  I know that in my kids' school, the ones who tranfer from public school initially struggle, then assimilate, I have not talked to many who went the opposite direction.   But I always assumed this was because of the curriculum, had never considered the approach and time.


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## stringmusic (Oct 25, 2012)

Great conversation guys, I really appreciate all the info and opinions! 

Another question, does accreditation mean as much in elementary and middle school as it does in high school? Other than what Miguel pointed out, that transfers might be a problem.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 25, 2012)

Accreditation generally won't have anything to do with whether a child has trouble moving from one school to another.

It's more a question of curriculum and at what pace and in what order they are moving.

For instance, a classical school is not going to teach things in the same order as a traditional school (especially in the primary and elementary grades).  It will be more an issue of not having been exposed to certain concepts that the new school has already covered.  Like, for instance, if you move from a school that teaches sight words instead of phonics and your kid is in the process of learning how to read, he's not going to have a clue what they are talking about for a while until he catches up.

Again, though, I think the issue is not related to accreditation and is more in line with how the school teaches and in what order.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 25, 2012)

String...since you're gonna be a firefighter.

Accreditation is at the end of the day like getting certified to be a firefighter.  There are some people that can go through all the certifications and be horrible firefighters.  Then there are those that can be the best in the world, yet have no certification.  At the end of the day, though, the certification proves that they jumped through the hoops...so it gives them instant credibility to those who don't know them otherwise.


As far as the school that HF and I send our kids to, the curriculum is definitely solid.  They teach them latin and more of the why than just the facts.


Oh...one other thing to look at String..is the homework policy.  I know that it was slightly mentioned by someone else in the thread, but I like our school's policy.  In Kindergarten...really no homework.  In First Grade, maybe 10-15 minutes a day.  Second grade is where it starts getting more rigorous and our daughter has about 30 minutes an evening.  Kids are at school to learn....but they are kids too.  I don't think kids in kindergarten should have an hour of homework every day.  Makes you wonder what they did all day long in the classroom.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 25, 2012)

One of my granddaughters goes to Calvary Baptist Christian School in Winston Salem. It's a huge church and they have many services to choose from. And they are big on athletics, I love to attend those...they are priceless.

They use Bob Jones and Heritage and probably a few more teaching tools. It isn't easy either. My youngest granddaughter didn't qualify because of her grades, etc, or test or whatever it is you have to do to get in. That kinda ticks me off a little...but my older granddaughter is doing well and keeping her grades pretty high...A's B's. She also takes piano and cheerleading at the school. Both of them do basketball and volley ball. Oh my gosh, just couldn't be any more entertaining....


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## mtnwoman (Oct 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Oh...one other thing to look at String..is the homework policy.  I know that it was slightly mentioned by someone else in the thread, but I like our school's policy.  In Kindergarten...really no homework.  In First Grade, maybe 10-15 minutes a day.  Second grade is where it starts getting more rigorous and our daughter has about 30 minutes an evening.  Kids are at school to learn....but they are kids too.  I don't think kids in kindergarten should have an hour of homework every day.  Makes you wonder what they did all day long in the classroom.



I agree on that totally. My GD that does attend a Christian school, is loaded with homework every day.  She does well and maybe that's good for her. But I also wonder, what did they do all day?  It makes it hard for my daughter, who is a stay at home mom, but runs 4 businesses from home. Takes the girls to other things, like gymnastics and tumbling, swimming and it gets to be a bit much with all that homework. I'd say it's at least 2 hours a day of homework, and it gets pretty hairy around there sometimes.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Both of them do basketball and volley ball. Oh my gosh, just couldn't be any more entertaining....



As much as I detest basketball.....it is, by far, the most entertaining sport to watch my son play.  It is also his worst sport.  But, he is like a one man "fouling machine."  He gets put in to take other players out.  Very entertaining!


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> My youngest granddaughter didn't qualify because of her grades, etc, or test or whatever it is you have to do to get in. That kinda ticks me off a little..


And it should. That is totally unacceptable IMO.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> And it should. That is totally unacceptable IMO.



Why is that unacceptable?  Pretty standard procedure to be required to meet a minimum standard for acceptance to a private school.


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## stringmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> String...since you're gonna be a firefighter.
> 
> Accreditation is at the end of the day like getting certified to be a firefighter.  There are some people that can go through all the certifications and be horrible firefighters.  Then there are those that can be the best in the world, yet have no certification.  At the end of the day, though, the certification proves that they jumped through the hoops...so it gives them instant credibility to those who don't know them otherwise.


Good analogy. And about the ff job... yea... ummm.... it didn't take me long to find out that that wasn't the career that I wanted. I made the decision to take that job based on things I probably shouldn't have. I called my old job back and went back to work for them. Life lesson learned.




> As far as the school that HF and I send our kids to, the curriculum is definitely solid.  They teach them latin and more of the why than just the facts.
> 
> 
> Oh...one other thing to look at String..is the homework policy.  I know that it was slightly mentioned by someone else in the thread, but I like our school's policy.  In Kindergarten...really no homework.  In First Grade, maybe 10-15 minutes a day.  Second grade is where it starts getting more rigorous and our daughter has about 30 minutes an evening.  Kids are at school to learn....but they are kids too.  I don't think kids in kindergarten should have an hour of homework every day.  Makes you wonder what they did all day long in the classroom.



It does indeed. Call me crazy, but I'm not big on homework at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a little homework, but 3-4 hours a night, every night, is not something I want. We are not going to "not be a family" because he has as much homework as someone getting their MBA at Harvard Medical.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 26, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> It does indeed. Call me crazy, but I'm not big on homework at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a little homework, but 3-4 hours a night, every night, is not something I want. We are not going to "not be a family" because he has as much homework as someone getting their MBA at Harvard Medical.



We are just the opposite, my kid has the same teacher this year, in 8th grade, as he had for math last year. He has struggled both years under her and rarely has homework. He isn't alone in his class with this issue either. If the kids aren't clearly "getting it" (college prep algebra) then she needs to spend more time teaching and less time letting them get their homework wrong during class time. We are real close to going over her head to the middle school admin to have a talk. We met with her last year and it was like having a conversation with a deer in headlights.

Private school does not guarantee that every teacher is the best money can buy. Like I stated earlier, diligence on the part of the parent is a must, and you get very prompt results in private school when you can't get satisfaction with a teacher. The same cannot be said for public school.

I'm not a big 3 to 4 hours of homework proponent, but I do expect an hour or two of work when they get home, especially when a test or quiz is coming up.

This is only the second time in 8 grades we've had an issue with a teacher, so I would consider that exceptional.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Why is that unacceptable?  Pretty standard procedure to be required to meet a minimum standard for acceptance to a private school.



Think about it. This is a "Christian School", a ministry of the church.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 26, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Think about it. This is a "Christian School", a ministry of the church.



When your child fails a class or grade you still have to pay for that class or grade to be repeated. Not every kid is cut out for the actual grade level of advanced teaching that private school offers, and it certainly isn't worth paying for a grade twice to get the student up to speed. Many parents hold their kids back a year in private school so they can mature enough to keep up with the advanced curriculum. The instance we are discussing might not be any different.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> Think about it. This is a "Christian School", a ministry of the church.



I'm thinking about it....I don't follow.  Are you suggesting that the "Christian" thing to do is enroll anybody who shows up at the front door?

It is designed to be a cut above even other private schools in terms of the level of education.  There has to be a minimun standard of ability, otherwise the children will not be able to keep up and will become frustrated....we are not interested in exasperating, provoking, aggrivating (whatever word you use) children so that they become discouraged.  We don't test them once and then exclude them forever.  They are free to come back and test again at any time.  But they do have to test in.  That's just the way it works.  I don't see anything un-christian about that.  Are we also supposed to educate anybody who shows up free of charge if they can't "afford" to pay the tuition?  

Private schools (for the most part) are intended to give a much more rigorous level of education, not just be a shelter from the world.  If a child can't keep up with the pace, it's not going to benefit anyone.


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> When your child fails a class or grade you still have to pay for that class or grade to be repeated. Not every kid is cut out for the actual grade level of advanced teaching that private school offers, and it certainly isn't worth paying for a grade twice to get the student up to speed. Many parents hold their kids back a year in private school so they can mature enough to keep up with the advanced curriculum. The instance we are discussing might not be any different.


Sorry, I don't have a clue how this is relative to what I was addressing.



mtnwoman said:


> My youngest granddaughter didn't qualify because of her grades, etc, or test or whatever it is you have to do to get in.


Her granddaughter did not qualify for admission, to a ministry of the church. Just another issue I have with "Christian Schools".


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Are we also supposed to educate anybody who shows up free of charge if they can't "afford" to pay the tuition?


Ouch


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> Her granddaughter did not qualify for admission, to a ministry of the church. Just another issue I have with "Christian Schools".



Just out of curiousity, how would you design a school that is a ministry of a church?

(Annie, sorry we're using your granddaughter as an example here...if you want us to "quit it", just say the word.  We're not denegrating her in particular.  Just using the point as a point of discussion.)


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 26, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Sorry, I don't have a clue how this is relative to what I was addressing.



OK, let me put it a little more bluntly. You are sending your kid to school for academics, not to be a good Christian. While those are the founding principles that all education in a private school is centered around, it is not the point of the process.

If all you want is for your kid to be a good Christian then that starts at home and is re-enforced in Church. A Christian education is merely icing on the cake.

In our school the parents get interviewed before the kid does. If the parent or parents doen't have a strong Christian conviction and good testimony then the kid is not going to be attending our school. What you are seeking starts at home.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> Ouch



It's a legit question?  I put "afford" in parenthesis because I hear constantly from parents who tell me they can't afford to pay tuition...and then go to disney for a week and buy a new car.

RJ is the worst offender.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> OK, let me put it a little more bluntly. You are sending your kid to school for academics, not to be a good Christian. While those are the founding principles that all education in a private school is centered around, it is not the point of the process.



Now, I WILL take issue with this statement.  Our #1 goal is to point them toward Christ.  It is a Christ-Centered education.

It does start at home...and should be finished there.  But everything about what we do points to Christ.  It is not "first, then".  It is "both at the same time".


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Just out of curiousity, how would you design a school that is a ministry of a church?


I wouldn't.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

So, then, I assume all children should be educated at home?


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## gemcgrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Our #1 goal is to point them toward Christ.  It is a Christ-Centered education.


If they can "afford" tuition.

I am going to back out of this conversation. It is seriously just too painful.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It's a legit question?  I put "afford" in parenthesis because I hear constantly from parents who tell me they can't afford to pay tuition...and then go to disney for a week and buy a new car.
> 
> RJ is the worst offender.



You can see folks' priorities by looking at where they spend their money.  I see a lot of griping at my kids' school over tuition....even though it is much lower many other local private schools.

But....I am guilty too.  There is another school which is logistically feasible where the education is superior.  But, one year there costs more than I paid for my masters degree.  Now, my wife and I only pay cash for the cars we drive, so we have old used cars, but we do live in a decent house.  If I were to rent a trailer for $300 a month, I could afford that other school.  There is a trade off, and this is universal.....everybody sacrifices one thing for another.

To Gem's point:  it seems a bit "un-Christian" to turn kids away based on ability.  One would think the Chrisitan thing to do would be to give a hand up.  I am not in leadership at my kid's school, for good reason, because I would elliminate barriers relevant to ability.  However, I also believe more folks could afford private school if they realligned their priorities.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> So, then, I assume all children should be educated at home?



....If I remember correctly, I think Gem homeschooled his kids.

About the money thing, does your school have scholarship opportunities for those who have difficulty with the funds?  I know our school does to some extent.

But, one thing that bugs me, is my kids' school gives preachers a HUGE discount, but gives assistant preachers a smaller discount.  That makes no sense at all to me.  The "head pastor" will obviously have a larger sallary than an assistant pastor.  In addition, it seems occupation should be irrelevant, and assistance should be needs based.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 26, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I am not in leadership at my kid's school, for good reason, because I would elliminate barriers relevant to ability.  However, I also believe more folks could afford private school if they realligned their priorities.


That one is simple math; More kids learning at a lower/slower level requires more teachers to teach those specific kids. More teachers requires more classrooms, which leads to more building costs (if the school has the space) which leads to more capital outlay, and more salary consumption. Thus, the endgame will not necessarily result in lower cost, and could quite possibly incur an increase in tuition.

Most private Christian schools have no desire to grow beyond their means and do have a carrying capacity, thus some sort of vetting process must be implemented.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> That one is simple math; More kids learning at a lower/slower level requires more teachers to teach those specific kids. More teachers requires more classrooms, which leads to more building costs (if the school has the space) which leads to more capital outlay, and more salary consumption. Thus, the endgame will not necessarily result in lower cost, and could quite possibly incur an increase in tuition.



YEs.....which is why I said there was good reason why I am not in leadership.  I'm too idealistic.

I always said I could never be a preacher 'cause I would bankrupt the church by giving all the money away.  

I know my limitations


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Most private Christian schools have no desire to grow beyond their means and do have a carrying capacity, thus some sort of vetting process must be implemented.



I know a few local ones which are deeply in debt.  The one we put our kids in runs debt free.  This means a less appealling building, but more affordable tuition.  The other schools built too fast, and had to raise tuition beyond demand, and hurt their enrollment....causing more debt.

So.....I am agreeing with in as far as "action."  I just struggle in principle.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> If they can "afford" tuition.



Correct...if they can afford it.  We make lots of scholarships available and work with every family we can.  But they do have to show at least some level of commitment in the form of helping to pay those who are educating their kids.

You might disagree with it.  But there's certainly nothing anti-biblical about it.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> because I would elliminate barriers relevant to ability.



...and how would you go about ensuring a superior education if all who came were granted admission regardless of ability?


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> We make lots of scholarships available and work with every family we can.



  That's a good thing.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> ...and how would you go about ensuring a superior education if all who came were granted admission regardless of ability?



Let's get on the same page first.....are we talking financial ability or intellectual ability?


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> But, one thing that bugs me, is my kids' school gives preachers a HUGE discount, but gives assistant preachers a smaller discount. That makes no sense at all to me.



It's a "the flock follows the shepherd" tactic.  We do it as well.  We offer head pastors (only head pastors) scholarships specifically pointed at them.  There are other scholarships available for other families.  But there are also "head pastor" scholarships.  Not because they are "better", but because we know they will have a good influence on our community and we also know that there is a high likelyhood that parents in their congregation will follow them.

Just being honest on that one for ya man.  That's how it works.  Nobody's gonna follow the part-time music minister to a school and we need students so we can pay our teachers.




> In addition, it seems occupation should be irrelevant, and assistance should be needs based.



Weren't priests and apostles (i.e. leaders) treated differently?


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> Let's get on the same page first.....are we talking financial ability or intellectual ability?



Intellectual.  Scholarships are available to help on the financial end.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Just being honest on that one for ya man.  That's how it works.  Nobody's gonna follow the part-time music minister to a school.



Marketing.  I get it, and as a capitalist, I can appreciate it....as well as your honesty


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> I'm too idealistic.




You know I'm gonna have to bring this quote up later....right?


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Intellectual.  Scholarships are available to help on the financial end.



Ok.  Here's the problem I see.....from a Christian perspective, everybody is equal.  It seems "unChristian" to refuse a dumb kid access to the best education he may get.  I would view it as the school's repsonsibility to present the opportunity on an equal basis to all customers.  The "smart" kids are responsible for taking advantage of the opportunities as well.  I don't really buy into the idea that dumb kids hold smart kids back, I view that as an excuse.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> You know I'm gonna have to bring this quote up later....right?



  yea, I put it on a tee.....knock it out the park when you see fit.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> I don't really buy into the idea that dumb kids hold smart kids back, I view that as an excuse.



Clearly, you've not been involved in the public schools since the Bush admin, huh?

It's not that the lower kids (let's not go with "dumb".  They're not dumb.) hold the higher kids back.  It's that the lower kids require the teachers to spend more time with them than with anybody else and so, by default, the higher kids don't get the same level or amount of instructional time that they can handle.  They don't get "pushed".

If they understand 2+2 on the first day, and you have to continue to teach it on days 2, 3 and 4, the higher kids have suffered in their education.  They've wasted 3 days of instructional time that could, otherwise have been spent teaching 2+3, 2+4 and 2+5.

Follow me?  They don't hold the other kids back.  They hold the teachers back.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 26, 2012)

> yea, I put it on a tee.....knock it out the park when you see fit.



I might just make it my sig line so I can copy and paste it in a pinch!


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## mtnwoman (Oct 26, 2012)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> OK, let me put it a little more bluntly. You are sending your kid to school for academics, not to be a good Christian. While those are the founding principles that all education in a private school is centered around, it is not the point of the process.
> 
> If all you want is for your kid to be a good Christian then that starts at home and is re-enforced in Church. A Christian education is merely icing on the cake.
> 
> In our school the parents get interviewed before the kid does. If the parent or parents doen't have a strong Christian conviction and good testimony then the kid is not going to be attending our school. What you are seeking starts at home.



I understand that totally, both sides. My youngest gd cannot do what the older one can. My daughter held the youngest back in first grade in public school.

I guess what I mean, I wish Christian Schools had programs to help kids who have a hard time in school, too. Some kind of special education or something similar, so's some of these kids aren't bullied or picked on. I'm speaking now of my 22 yr old. gd who had to be homeschooled because she also couldn't get into a Christian School. She learned some terrible things in public school and you'd think some of the Christian Schools would want to 'save' some of these kids from that...I'm talking mercy and grace.  Money was no object at that time either.  She is wayward and close to being out of reach because of low her low IQ....we couldn't even get a Christian Counsiling Place to get her in for counsiling.
We've been from here to timbucktoo trying to get her help...mostly Christian...she just gets blown off. Guess you'd have to be there to get why it angers me a bit....even though I understand it....you'd think somewhere you could find some mercy and grace in Christian learning...that's all I'm saying. It's just been a big ol' combo platter of things for about 17 years trying to get this kid help, 'even' thru Christianity.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Clearly, you've not been involved in the public schools since the Bush admin, huh?
> 
> It's not that the lower kids (let's not go with "dumb".  They're not dumb.) hold the higher kids back.  It's that the lower kids require the teachers to spend more time with them than with anybody else and so, by default, the higher kids don't get the same level or amount of instructional time that they can handle.  They don't get "pushed".
> 
> ...



I understand all that. My youngest gd is up to gradelevel now in public school and I understand 'qualifying' to be able to stay caught up in a Christian School.  I'm just wondering since it is so expensive why don't Christian schools offer something for ALL children, as they are paid well.
My oldest gd has been the biggest problem...her IQ is 63, but man has that girl learned....she is street smart as can be and she's an overcomer from what her md's thought she was limited to when she first began this journey at about 5yo.  Most people don't even know she has a learning disability. They just think she lets people take advantage of her and she'll hook up with anybody who is a potential friend, because she was made fun of for being in special education and riding the short bus.

Anyway, we just can't find her any Christian help because nobody deals with those problems it appears. If you're the cream of the crop, then yeah, but if you have any problems then you need to stay in the secular world that deals with those problems.

That's just my experience.
I understand why it's like it is in Christian Schools, but it still has become a thorn in my side trying to get help for her...that's all.

We live in the triad, you'd think out of this huge area, we'd have a Christian counciling place that could help these kids.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 26, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I understand all that. My youngest gd is up to gradelevel now in public school and I understand 'qualifying' to be able to stay caught up in a Christian School.  I'm just wondering since it is so expensive why don't Christian schools offer something for ALL children, as they are paid well.
> My oldest gd has been the biggest problem...her IQ is 63, but man has that girl learned....she is street smart as can be and she's an overcomer from what her md's thought she was limited to when she first began this journey at about 5yo.  Most people don't even know she has a learning disability. They just think she lets people take advantage of her and she'll hook up with anybody who is a potential friend, because she was made fun of for being in special education and riding the short bus.
> 
> Anyway, we just can't find her any Christian help because nobody deals with those problems it appears. If you're the cream of the crop, then yeah, but if you have any problems then you need to stay in the secular world that deals with those problems.
> ...



One would certainly expect it.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 26, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Let's get on the same page first.....are we talking financial ability or intellectual ability?



Looks like both.

You still have to qualify to get in whether you have the money or not. Our church has lots of scholarships also. My daughter doesn't need that, her children don't need that, either. Guess they just need more intellegence to get help.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

Before I respond to the responses.....I was being intentionally flippant with the "dumb" remark.  Personally, I think everybody has different "gifts."  Some are good at school, some are good at sports, some are good with people, some are good at all, and some are good at one or two.  I agree with HF's clarification on that point.

I guess that's why I struggle with the concept of ability testing.  I would totally understand measuring effort that a child and parents are willing to put into it.....but, I struggle overcoming the hurdle of keeping a kid out because they are not academically advanced.  I understand the concept of scarce resources.  Is that the primary motivator, and if so, why are those resources given to the most capable instead of the "least?"

So, instead of responding line for line, let me ask......what is the Biblical basis for discriminating based on intellectual ability (we all say we want "Christ centered," right)?  What basis in Jesus' teachings do we use when we tell a kid "you're not good enough."

FWIW, my son's school seems to take on a whole range of intellectual ability.  The one thing they will not take is a kid who has a history of being a trouble-maker.  This keeps the environment safe, effective, and focused on education.  Who knows, maybe if they kept the "slow kids" out my children would get a better education.  I am glad they don't.  My kids are doing just fine, and from what I can tell, they are about 2 years ahead of where I was educationally at their age.


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## JB0704 (Oct 26, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Looks like both.
> 
> You still have to qualify to get in whether you have the money or not. Our church has lots of scholarships also. My daughter doesn't need that, her children don't need that, either. Guess they just need more intellegence to get help.



Annie, I think if your daughter shopped around, they might find a good environment which would fit your gd's needs.  I know my kids' school has a whole range of ability.  They also offer financial assistance.  

Perhaps it might be beneficial to do some more shopping.  If a school doesn't want your business, don't give it to 'em.

I understand why a school might think the way HF descibes, but like I said, and he highlighted, I am quite idealistic, sometimes too much.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 26, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Good analogy. And about the ff job... yea... ummm.... it didn't take me long to find out that that wasn't the career that I wanted. I made the decision to take that job based on things I probably shouldn't have. I called my old job back and went back to work for them. Life lesson learned.



wow...didn't know that, but glad to hear you're still employed and everything is working out.



Miguel Cervantes said:


> We are just the opposite, my kid has the same teacher this year, in 8th grade, as he had for math last year. He has struggled both years under her and rarely has homework. He isn't alone in his class with this issue either. If the kids aren't clearly "getting it" (college prep algebra) then she needs to spend more time teaching and less time letting them get their homework wrong during class time. We are real close to going over her head to the middle school admin to have a talk. We met with her last year and it was like having a conversation with a deer in headlights.
> 
> Private school does not guarantee that every teacher is the best money can buy. Like I stated earlier, diligence on the part of the parent is a must, and you get very prompt results in private school when you can't get satisfaction with a teacher. The same cannot be said for public school.
> 
> ...



I think at the middle school/high school level, 1-2 hours of homework per night is about right.



Huntinfool said:


> It's a legit question?  I put "afford" in parenthesis because I hear constantly from parents who tell me they can't afford to pay tuition...and then go to disney for a week and buy a new car.
> 
> RJ is the worst offender.



Hey....wait a minute.  I've never bought a new car....and the average age of both my car and my wife's car is over 8 years old.  I still utilize the original iphone 2g...with no data plan.  I'm as cheap as they come.



JB0704 said:


> Annie, I think if your daughter shopped around, they might find a good environment which would fit your gd's needs.  I know my kids' school has a whole range of ability.  They also offer financial assistance.
> 
> Perhaps it might be beneficial to do some more shopping.  If a school doesn't want your business, don't give it to 'em.
> 
> I understand why a school might think the way HF descibes, but like I said, and he highlighted, I am quite idealistic, sometimes too much.



That's a tough one....and one of the main reasons that govt school people hate vouchers.  Because students with learning disabilities cost much much more than those without.  My uncle is a Principal at a HS in a fairly large metro area in another state.  I think he said that taxes provide about $8k per student per year.  However, if it is a special needs child, the cost is more than $50k per year.  And unlike private schools, they can't turn them away.  They have to accept everyone.

So there in lies the dilemma for Christian Schools.  Do they do it as a "Ministry" and take on students that cost way more than they can afford?  Or do they turn down students to keep academics high and costs as low as possible?  Hopefully a proper balance can be obtained.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 26, 2012)

I know a lot of private Christian schools were started in the early seventies as a result of  desegregation. Have most private Christian schools grown out of this to foster better race relations? I'm just bringing this up because i'm old  and remember  desegregation and I don't know anything about private schools. I don't even know anyone, young or old, who ever went to one. I think because of financial reasons. Do you still have to pay school taxes?
How do kids that go to a private school adapt to working in the real world, if you will with people that aren't, quite so Christian?


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## rjcruiser (Oct 26, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I know a lot of private Christian schools were started in the early seventies as a result of  desegregation. Have most private Christian schools grown out of this to foster better race relations? I'm just bringing this up because i'm old  and remember  desegregation and I don't know anything about private schools. I don't even know anyone, young or old, who ever went to one. I think because of financial reasons. Do you still have to pay school taxes?
> How do kids that go to a private school adapt to working in the real world, if you will with people that aren't, quite so Christian?



Yes you still have to pay for taxes.  I went to christian school k-8 and public high school...then christian college.  Think I turned out alright...but my wife will be the first to tell you that I have too high an opinion of myself


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 26, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Yes you still have to pay for taxes.  I went to christian school k-8 and public high school...then christian college.  Think I turned out alright...but my wife will be the first to tell you that I have too high an opinion of myself



I know a lot of parents who send their child to a Christian school k-8 and then on to public school.
I don't know about "alright" but from discussions on here, I would say you are well balanced in your life.


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