# How long was Jesus in he11?



## Hunting Teacher (Oct 28, 2010)

Good morning Woodies Wise Men! 
I have a question that came up in a study my small group is doing on a book called "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. This book is definitely worth reading! Now I don't profess that he is right about everything he suggests could be possible. (Neither does he.), but it will really make you think.
Anyway, back on topic. 
How long do you understand according to scripture that Jesus was in Heaven? I've searched the internet and can't get an answer that is backed up by scripture. I'm sure some of you wise and scripture knowledgable here can help me out.  (I am serious, not being sarcastic!!)
Thanks ahead of time!


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 28, 2010)

He was never in he11, that's a typical King james translation error. The Niv has it correctly. He ascended and he desended. No indication of going to he11. OT saints were not held in a place of suffering


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## formula1 (Oct 28, 2010)

*Re:*

I don't find enough evidence that Jesus ever went to he$$. The best evidence I see for anything close is 1 Peter 3:18-22 where it appears that Jesus preached to the souls of the dead. Consider verse 19:

19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison.

My thoughts here is simply to ask a question, does Jesus have to be in he$$ to preach to spirits? The evidence of Luke 16:19-31 suggests that is not necessary. Granted, the condemned rich man is speaking to Abraham, but I could conclude that Jesus could easily do the same.

In my view, there is simply not enough scriptural evidence to prove it or not and I believe it is non-essential to know to boost your faith in Jesus Christ.

I would, however, like to add an essential truth for your blessing:

Revelation 1
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Jesus holds all Power and Authority and the 'Keys' to Death and Hades. Therefore you know He has all Power to help you be an overcomer in Him!

God bless!


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

King James is not "The Original" GAbassmaster, and I'm not saying this to be contentious, by all means ask a fellow believer who has a huge study behind him that I have respect for the study he ha done even if I don't share the conclusions.

Lowjack, please guide this young man into some education about the original bible being in hebrew and greek, and predating even the 1611 King James Version by a long shot.

Gabassmaster, let me try this one time, what language was the 1611 KJV translated from? (hint latin) So the Bible existed in latin before it ever existed in English.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 28, 2010)

ttom said:


> king james is not "the original" gabassmaster, and i'm not saying this to be contentious, by all means ask a fellow believer who has a huge study behind him that i have respect for the study he ha done even if i don't share the conclusions.
> 
> Lowjack, please guide this young man into some education about the original bible being in hebrew and greek, and predating even the 1611 king james version by a long shot.
> 
> Gabassmaster, let me try this one time, what language was the 1611 kjv translated from? (hint latin) so the bible existed in latin before it ever existed in english.





well they know what i mean it hasnt been reworded it still holds true.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> King James is not "The Original" GAbassmaster, and I'm not saying this to be contentious, by all means ask a fellow believer who has a huge study behind him that I have respect for the study he ha done even if I don't share the conclusions.
> 
> Lowjack, please guide this young man into some education about the original bible being in hebrew and greek, and predating even the 1611 King James Version by a long shot.
> 
> Gabassmaster, let me try this one time, what language was the 1611 KJV translated from? (hint latin) So the Bible existed in latin before it ever existed in English.



http://www.hissheep.org/kjv/a_comparison_of_the_kjv_niv.html


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## FritzMichaels (Oct 28, 2010)

(Matt 12:40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

There are several verses that point to the heart of the earth as being the location of heJJ. (See also Eph4:9, Isa14:9, Eze32:18-21, Numb16:32-33)


(Acts 2:31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in heJJ, neither his flesh did see corruption.

For him to not be left in heJJ, he would have to have gone there. You cant be 'not left there' if you never went there.

My daughter cannot leave her kids at my house if they were never there to begin with.


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> king james is the original... so the original is wrong?



Really?  Is that a joke?  You really believe that there were no Bibles on the planet until 1611?

Nobody knows EXACTLY where Jesus went.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 28, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> really?  Is that a joke?  You really believe that there were no bibles on the planet until 1611?
> 
> Nobody knows exactly where jesus went.



are you an athiest too?


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> are you an athiest too?


No, I am not an Atheist.  Far from it.


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## christianhunter (Oct 28, 2010)

Hunting Teacher said:


> Good morning Woodies Wise Men!
> I have a question that came up in a study my small group is doing on a book called "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. This book is definitely worth reading! Now I don't profess that he is right about everything he suggests could be possible. (Neither does he.), but it will really make you think.
> Anyway, back on topic.
> How long do you understand according to scripture that Jesus was in Heaven? I've searched the internet and can't get an answer that is backed up by scripture. I'm sure some of you wise and scripture knowledgable here can help me out.  (I am serious, not being sarcastic!!)
> Thanks ahead of time!



Welcome!
If I may humbly give my interpretation.The spirit world is very different to this one.When THE LORD JESUS spoke to Lazarus,at the tomb.HE called him by name.Had HE simply said come forth,all of the dead would have risen.The rich man in He11 could see Lazarus in Abraham's bosom,he even spoke to Abraham.This was in the spirit.THE LORD JESUS,is GOD,where HE descended has been said,to the grave,to a holding place of the saints,or even he11.The truth is, THE LORD,can speak to the dead from anywhere.Where HE descended I will accept what The King James says.I will not speculate,but HE can speak to all of the dead from anywhere,all of the versions of Scripture will back this up.I hope this helps you out.


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Above is a link to a good reading on the hot place.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

Seriously Gabassmaster get with Lowjack and let him explain the idea of original as opposed to the first English Translations.

BTW the first English translation was 1380 or so by John Wycliffe.
John Rogers did the second complete Bible translation into English in 1537 the first translation to English from the Greek and Hebrew rather than the Latin.

Then we have Thomas Cranmer's "Great Bible" 1539
The Geneva Bible in 1560
The Catholics printed a Catholic Bible in English finally in 1589

So we have what 5 English Language Bibles that predate the KJV?
So how does that make the KJV  even "The Original English Bible" let alone the Original Bible?

Edited to add Dawg2 an Atheist,


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> Seriously Gabassmaster get with Lowjack and let him explain the idea of original as opposed to the first English Translations.
> 
> BTW the first English translation was 1380 or so by John Wycliffe.
> John Rogers did the second complete Bible translation into English in 1537 the first translation to English from the Greek and Hebrew rather than the Latin.
> ...



Keep in mind there around 6 revisons of the KJV.  One being rather significant when they removed the "Apocrypha" or Deutercanonical Books from the KJV Bible.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

Well I'm gonna back off Gabassmaster here and let yall teach the young man something. He's been butting heads with me in the AAA forum so anything I say is suspect in his mind.

Y'all have a good time with him and try to learn him something.

I'm aware that we have several editions/ revisions of 1 or 2 of those Bible translations I mentioned as well as multiple KJV editions/ revisions.

I'm not going to get through to the man, so maybe y'all will have better luck.

Gabassmaster seriously I'm not trying to lead you astray here.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

On the topic it might do well to get the hermaneutics experts in on this to discuss the translation of sheol as h e l l, or the grave or death.

Lowjaack where are you when we need your expertise.

We need the Greek/ Hebrew original terms to help figure this one out.


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> On the topic it might do well to get the hermaneutics experts in on this to discuss the translation of sheol as h e l l, or the grave or death.
> 
> Lowjaack where are you when we need your expertise.
> 
> We need the Greek/ Hebrew original terms to help figure this one out.



There is also the translation of Hades, from Greek.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> what language was the 1611 KJV translated from? (hint latin)



The KJV was translated out of the original Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

My bad, was rushing through and had the incorrect language attribution.

The Wycliffe Bible was translated from Latin.
The KJV was translated from the Greek and the Hebrew.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

dawg2 yep it could be hades in this case I don't know that;'s why I wanted Lowjack.

While I might consider him a bit pompas and I may disagree with the conclusions he draws, I have nothing but respect for his education on these things. 

I am educated guessing that it says sheol, and is in Hebrew.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> Well I'm gonna back off Gabassmaster here and let yall teach the young man something. He's been butting heads with me in the AAA forum so anything I say is suspect in his mind.
> 
> Y'all have a good time with him and try to learn him something.
> 
> ...





your not going to lead me astray?? ive already got my name wrote in the lambs book of life. im not going to tell these people on this forum to set you straight. you are the one needing help and you need it from god and he is there when you need it.


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## christianhunter (Oct 28, 2010)

I pondered in another thread,why people(new people)never post here.You can see by the derailment,one aspect of why this is.He asked a simple question,and the "wise men"want to argue Translations.I hope Hunting Teacher that you had some good answers,that helped you.


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> I pondered in another thread,why people(new people)never post here.You can see by the derailment,one aspect of why this is.She asked a simple question,and the "wise men"want to argue Translations.I hope Hunting Teacher that you had some good answers,that helped you.



What she asked is not an easy question.  You really need to look at the definition and its context and how it was translated to understand what it means.  Many Bibles say it a little bit differently too.


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## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

Thank you Dawg2 I was avoiding answering that post because I felt I would be taken as being an interloper making trouble.  That was and is not my purpose here. 

Depending on the source you might hear Jesus was:

Dead for 3 days, 
In the earth for 3 days
In sheol for 3 days (sheol being an older Hebrew term that is usually translated as H e l l in English)


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## Lowjack (Oct 28, 2010)

Hunting Teacher said:


> Good morning Woodies Wise Men!
> I have a question that came up in a study my small group is doing on a book called "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. This book is definitely worth reading! Now I don't profess that he is right about everything he suggests could be possible. (Neither does he.), but it will really make you think.
> Anyway, back on topic.
> How long do you understand according to scripture that Jesus was in Heaven? I've searched the internet and can't get an answer that is backed up by scripture. I'm sure some of you wise and scripture knowledgable here can help me out.  (I am serious, not being sarcastic!!)
> Thanks ahead of time!



The Concept Of He!! as we today believe is not found in the Hebrew Bible or Jewish Believe, I might Point out not for human BeingsHe!! was Crated for Hasatan and his angels which are held in torment forever more.

There is another place called Gehenna which existed next to Paradise , it is a place for the souls of those who do not believe in God or indulge in the sins of the flesh, but it is a temporary place of Behavior modification it is not an eternal place.
Now there are humans whose sins are so great and have consciously made pacts with Satan who will go to the eternal He!!.
I would recommend for mature Christians to read the second book of Enoch and there you will find the different levels of punishment or Behavior Modification, Enoch even saw that fallen angels were separated in different places of punishment.
I believe Yeshua went to the place that was in the bottom of the earth were Human Souls were sent, some went to paradise and some went to Gehenna, Yeshua preached to those in Gehenna and those that repented he transfered them to paradise and then took all including paradise to the heavens.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 28, 2010)

We should consider the context; when Jesus was in the grave, we think for 3 days, upon his resurection, he brought with him, I don't recall, seems that Acts may say 500. It says elsewhere, propheticly that he led captives[ setting free]. Now all spirits of men who died before Jesus resurection were not in heaven. We can assume that they were not in torment of he11. John the Baptist would be here until Jesus is raised.


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## Hunting Teacher (Oct 28, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> What she asked is not an easy question.  You really need to look at the definition and its context and how it was translated to understand what it means.  Many Bibles say it a little bit differently too.



I'm not so much bothered by the derailment. But am chuckling that just because I'm a teacher you guys assumed I'm a "she." 
That's my daughter in my avatar. I can assure you guys i am a guy. My wife will vouch for me if need be. Besides if I was a woman I'd be the ugliest one alive!!


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## Hunting Teacher (Oct 28, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> The Concept Of He!! as we today believe is not found in the Hebrew Bible or Jewish Believe, I might Point out not for human BeingsHe!! was Crated for Hasatan and his angels which are held in torment forever more.
> 
> There is another place called Gehenna which existed next to Paradise , it is a place for the souls of those who do not believe in God or indulge in the sins of the flesh, but it is a temporary place of Behavior modification it is not an eternal place.
> Now there are humans whose sins are so great and have consciously made pacts with Satan who will go to the eternal He!!.
> ...


Thanks Lowjack,
You and I are going to have to differ greatly on if there is an eternal  he11 for humans or not, but I do very much appreciate your insight.


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## vanguard1 (Oct 28, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> (Matt 12:40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
> 
> There are several verses that point to the heart of the earth as being the location of heJJ. (See also Eph4:9, Isa14:9, Eze32:18-21, Numb16:32-33)
> 
> ...



that is 100% correct, jesus told mary after he was raised from the dead "do not touch me for i have not YET ASCENDED to the father"
He went there to pay for our sin, the price was not to just die, it was to be seperated from God forever, if he did not go there we would.

In the most revised version of the Apostle’s Creed, the received form, we read Jesus “was crucified, dead, and buried. He descended into he11 On the third he rose from the grave.” Where did the early church get the idea that Jesus went to he11

From the Bible.


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## christianhunter (Oct 28, 2010)

Hunting Teacher said:


> I'm not so much bothered by the derailment. But am chuckling that just because I'm a teacher you guys assumed I'm a "she."
> That's my daughter in my avatar. I can assure you guys i am a guy. My wife will vouch for me if need be. Besides if I was a woman I'd be the ugliest one alive!!



I apologize Brother,I corrected my post.Assumptions make us look foolish don't they?
It wasn't because you are a teacher,it was your Avatar.


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## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

Hunting Teacher said:


> I'm not so much bothered by the derailment. But am chuckling that just because I'm a teacher you guys assumed I'm a "she."
> That's my daughter in my avatar. I can assure you guys i am a guy. My wife will vouch for me if need be. Besides if I was a woman I'd be the ugliest one alive!!


Sorry, I just glanced at the avatar and thougt it was a woman and just realized it is a younger lady.  My apologies.


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## apoint (Oct 28, 2010)

If thats HT avatar he sure is cute for a guy.


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## Hunting Teacher (Oct 28, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Sorry, I just glanced at the avatar and thougt it was a woman and just realized it is a younger lady.  My apologies.



No problem whatsoever. Just messing with you a little. I have very much enjoyed reading the posts about di Jesus or didn't He and for how long. 
Thanks for the great information everyone!


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## Hunting Teacher (Oct 28, 2010)

apoint said:


> If thats HT avatar he sure is cute for a guy.


that was one proud girl with her first! Dad was just a little proud too.
God saw fit to give me the priveledge to be His vessel to be there to pray the prayer of salvation with her. One of the greatest moments of my life!
I talked to that precious girl about believers baptism and she said"Daddy I'll be scared but if Jesus could hang on that cross for me I can do this for Him!!" Let's just say it took me a while before I could speak.
"Blessed are the little ones"


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## Lowjack (Oct 28, 2010)

Enoch saw the four compartments of earth, the hollow places of the earth -Sheol/He!!/Gehenna, set apart for the souls of men [and angels who were bound there til the judgment day].


Quote:
1 Enoch
[Chapter 22]
1 And thence I went to another place, and the mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 



3 Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' 



I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 



8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. 



And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. 



There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13 of the sinners. 

Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14 Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'  

Now Jesus gave a lesson about two men in Sheol, one righteous and one an unrepentant sinner, in Luke 16. Jesus said one was in comfort, in Abraham's bosom [he was a child of faith, and went to the "hollow" for the righteous, to wait for the day of Atonement, the day of release from there for all the righteous], and one was in torment.

Just as Enoch portrayed Sheol, even so, Jesus gives a report on conditions there for two departed souls.


Quote:
9"There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz'arus, full of sores, 21who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. 

The rich man also died and was buried; 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom. 24And he called out, `Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz'arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25But Abraham said, `Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz'arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 

26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 2 (separation of places as Enoch saw.)7And he said, `Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30And he said, `No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'" ( Jesus Rose from the dead the only one)


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 29, 2010)

I do know that he is at the right hand of THE Father now!


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## vanguard1 (Oct 29, 2010)

as lowjack  brings up there were two parts of he11, one for the rightstanding in God, and one for sinner that did not trust God , so which side did Jesus go?. well the bible says he died with our sin on him," for he who knew no sin was made to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" so i believe he took our suffering in he11 for our sin to be paid for in full.


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## Dominic (Oct 29, 2010)

The KJV authors used the 1598 English translation of the New Testament as well, the Old Testament would not be finished until 1609. This translation came from the Catholic Church and would later become part of the DR bible first published in 1609 two years earlier then the KJV.


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## Lowjack (Oct 29, 2010)

I like the Casidoro de Reina and Cipriano de Valera translations much better and they go back to the middle 1500's And are translated directly from the textus receptus and Polyglot Bibles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reina-Valera

The Translations are much better from the Hebrew and the Greek than any of the English Transliterations.IMO

But there is one that I find more accurate than any other bible as the Original is in "Ladino"(Sephardic Hebrew) , that is the Ferrara Bible 1553, It is my main source for deep studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrara_Bible


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## apoint (Oct 29, 2010)

Hunting Teacher said:


> that was one proud girl with her first! Dad was just a little proud too.
> God saw fit to give me the priveledge to be His vessel to be there to pray the prayer of salvation with her. One of the greatest moments of my life!
> I talked to that precious girl about believers baptism and she said"Daddy I'll be scared but if Jesus could hang on that cross for me I can do this for Him!!" Let's just say it took me a while before I could speak.
> "Blessed are the little ones"



Amen to that my brother. Not only touches our heart but the angles celebrated too.


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## Ronnie T (Oct 30, 2010)

Concerning this subject, I believe I'll keep my specalating to myself.
But some good comments and thoughts here.


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## vanguard1 (Oct 30, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Concerning this subject, I believe I'll keep my specalating to myself.
> But some good comments and thoughts here.



party pooper.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 31, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Enoch saw the four compartments of earth, the hollow places of the earth -Sheol/He!!/Gehenna, set apart for the souls of men [and angels who were bound there til the judgment day].
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


Hello Low Jack, My studies have focused elsewhere the past several years. Now that I am ready to move on. This seems like an interesting topic for me. This is in no way conclusive for me but several bible comments make more sense when using your way of thinking;  "they are worse off at the beginning that at the end"" How I wish they were one or the other".


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## FritzMichaels (Nov 2, 2010)

Jesus told the thief on the cross who repented "today you will be with me in paradise". The bible says Jesus went to the heart of the earth for 3 days whether it was heJJ or not.

I have 2 questions for you.

1) Did the thief go with Jesus to the heart of the earth?

If you answer yes, would that mean paradise was in the heart of the earth.

I ask because a pastor just recently said that Jesus took the thief with him to paradise in the heart of the earth. Then he later said in  the same sermon we need to "save souls out of heJJ"...

2) is this the protestant purgatory??

I am just trying to wrap my brain around this. Are yall familiar with "protestant purgatory"?


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## dawg2 (Nov 2, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> Jesus told the thief on the cross who repented "today you will be with me in paradise". The bible says Jesus went to the heart of the earth for 3 days whether it was heJJ or not.
> 
> I have 2 questions for you.
> 
> ...




Yes, I have heard of purgatory.  I was unaware of there being different ones for different denominations.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 2, 2010)

Luke 16:22-29 (King James Version)

 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 

 23And in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 

 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 

 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 

 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 

 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 

 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 

 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

most believe that he11 had two places one for the righteous and one for the unrighteous one part was paradise.


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## Lowjack (Nov 2, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> Luke 16:22-29 (King James Version)
> 
> 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
> 
> ...



That is Correct two places for man and two places for the different types of Angels and sons of God is what Enoch testified he saw.


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## FritzMichaels (Nov 2, 2010)

Can you please provide the bible verses with an explanation? I am not seeing what yall are seeing...  I am a little slow.


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## Mako22 (Nov 3, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> He was never in he11, that's a typical King james translation error. The Niv has it correctly. He ascended and he desended. No indication of going to he11. OT saints were not held in a place of suffering



The KJV never says that he went to the place of fire and torment only paradise below. BTW the NIV is garbage.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 3, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> The KJV never says that he went to the place of fire and torment only paradise below. BTW the NIV is garbage.



amen i threw my niv in the trash 3 weeks ago. so many out takes, 12 whole verses were removed plus many more cut off.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 3, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> amen i threw my niv in the trash 3 weeks ago. so many out takes, 12 whole verses were removed plus many more cut off.


I recommend that you do some research on "taken out". You'll find that it wasn't there to start with. Look, every version is a translation, all other bibles except KJ don't include what you are refering to as "taken out". The reason; Since the bible has been translated so many times, in an effort to stay original, all other translations use the oldest manuscripts available. Unless your one of those who claim the KJ is "inspired", then there's no reason to go on. Seriously, They all have minor mistakes. The NIV,in my opinion is fine. If anybody wants to debate this any farther, I'll be glad to, but we will need to start a new thread. [Better study up first]I would like to add that I have never said that the KJ was an inferior translation


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