# Help with Navy Arms nipple



## Clipper (Sep 13, 2010)

I was given a .58 caliber Navy Arms Hawken style muzzleloader that belonged to a friend who passed away.  It was manufactured by the Antonio Zoli Co. in Italy.  In cleaning the rifle I removed the musket style nipple and noticed the hole in it was much larger than that of the musket nipple on my .50 caliber sidelock.  I also found another nipple in the patch box on the stock that had the same size hole.  

I am a little apprehensive about shooting a rifle with that size hole in the nipple due to excessive blowback.  The entire nipple is larger than the nipple on my TC sidelock and has different threads as well, so using the nipples I already have is not an option.  Has anyone here had experience with these type nipples?  Any advice will be appreciated.


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 14, 2010)

When in doubt don't shoot it. Find a new nipple to compare it to.


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## fishtail (Sep 14, 2010)

Just before the introduction of high performance nipples, it was popular to drill out the flash hole a little larger. This only created blow back problems for the shooter.
You will find at lease 3 different thread size nipples and at least 3 different nipple styles per thread size. 
Different nipple styles may be for a #10 cap (usually used in pistols), for a #11 cap or for a musket cap. 
Some thread sizes may be 6mm x 1mm, 6mm x .75mm, or 1/4 x 28 thread.
At one time I had a chart of nipple applications, need to see if I can find it.
Like tv said, don't shoot it.


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## fishtail (Sep 14, 2010)

Clipper, I'm no help.
All I can find is "6mm x .75mm fits most Italian models".
Your TC Hawken should be a 1/4 x 28 thread.


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 14, 2010)

Fishtail, looks to me like he needs a nipple for the non TC rifle and you had the right one.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...D=14&subID=171&styleID=785&PageSize=25&Page=2

I believe you need the RLP-MS. I believe I would order one and make sure then I believe I would order the RLP-MA version as it is the ampco bronze model and they are supposed to last much longer than the standard.


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## kvistads (Sep 14, 2010)

Clipper:
Not saying your rifle isn't a Hawkin, but it sounds more like a musket.  As a matter of fact the Antonio Zoli Co. is known more for their muskets like the Zouave.  Even the caliber of .58 is what most of the Civil War era replicas shoot.  If in deed it is a musket, of course it would also have a musket nipple.  The musket nipple uses a musket wrench or open end wrench because the fitting is square - not flat only on two sides like most of the no. 11 nipples you find on a Hawkin.  I would suggest looking more closely at what you have and try to determine if you have a musket, or a rifle re-fitted with a musket style nipple.  In either case, the musket nipple would have a great deal larger hole than the no. 11.  Nothing dangerous about the musket style nipple.  I would consider it an improvement over the no. 11.  More bang!  Look at page 11 on this link and notice the musket nipple with 4 flat square sides.  good luck.

http://www.cleburnes-division.com/documents/Enfield BIG Clean.pdf


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## Clipper (Sep 14, 2010)

kvistads said:


> Clipper:
> Not saying your rifle isn't a Hawkin, but it sounds more like a musket.  As a matter of fact the Antonio Zoli Co. is known more for their muskets like the Zouave.  Even the caliber of .58 is what most of the Civil War era replicas shoot.  If in deed it is a musket, of course it would also have a musket nipple.  The musket nipple uses a musket wrench or open end wrench because the fitting is square - not flat only on two sides like most of the no. 11 nipples you find on a Hawkin.  I would suggest looking more closely at what you have and try to determine if you have a musket, or a rifle re-fitted with a musket style nipple.  In either case, the musket nipple would have a great deal larger hole than the no. 11.  Nothing dangerous about the musket style nipple.  I would consider it an improvement over the no. 11.  More bang!  Look at page 11 on this link and notice the musket nipple with 4 flat square sides.  good luck.
> 
> http://www.cleburnes-division.com/documents/Enfield BIG Clean.pdf



The nipple on my 58. caliber looks exactly like the one in the photo on the link you posted.  I assumed the rifle was a Hawken style because it is about the same length as a Hawken and the stock does not extend to the end of the barrel.  The hole in the nipple is still way larger than the hole in the musket nipple I bought to replace the No. 11 nipple that came on the TC.  I think I will find and purchase a replacement nipple just to be safe.

Thanks for all the help and information.


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## kvistads (Sep 15, 2010)

Your description sounds something like a modified musket of some sort.  The only half stocked musket I can think of off hand is the Harper's Ferry which is a flintlock.  Without seeing it, I couldn't say for sure.  It is highly unlikely that it is a Hawkin style simply by its caliber of .58.  Most are either .50 or .54.  Does it have an octagon or round barrel?   A Hawkin or Plains style rifle will have an octagon barrel from the breech to the muzzle.  My suspicion is it's a musket  with a modified stock (cut off).  Muskets generally have a round barrel except for the Harper's Ferry which starts out octagon and changes to round the last half of the barrel.


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## fishtail (Sep 15, 2010)

Navy Arms came out with a 
"Buffalo Hunter" in .58cal. with Antonio Zoli stamped in it.
Except for the round barrel, looks like a Hawken style.
There were a couple slight stamping variations.
Here are some stolen pictures.


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## kvistads (Sep 15, 2010)

10-4.  I learn something new every day.  Thanks for the info.  I have a Zouave.  The lock and barrel are almost identical to my Zouave.  It definitely has a musket lock and barrel in my opinion.


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## fishtail (Sep 15, 2010)

Those pictures were robbed from Gunbroker and the seller was from Stockbridge.
Would you believe it went for $249?


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## Clipper (Sep 15, 2010)

fishtail said:


> Navy Arms came out with a
> "Buffalo Hunter" in .58cal. with Antonio Zoli stamped in it.
> Except for the round barrel, looks like a Hawken style.
> There were a couple slight stamping variations.
> Here are some stolen pictures.



That looks like the exact gun I have.


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