# Friend cited for hunting Violation



## Thunderbeard

I had a friend tell me he was coyote hunting in Putnam co. He had a rifle and three different preditor calls. The game warden came up to him and cited him for deer hunting out of season. He told him he was coyote hunting and showed him all the calls he had. The game warden came back later and tore up the citation and re-issued another for hunting with an illegal weapon. I believe that is messed up. He was on his lease and was hunting coyotes. So if you like varmit hunting, you better watch out no matter what the regulations say. You might just find your self in court.


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## Doc_Holliday23

what was illegal about the weapon?  

or was he just saying that he was rifle hunting (for deer) during ML season?


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## turtlebug

What was he hunting with?  Page 7 of the regulation book for this year says........

Page 7 under legal firearms
SMALL GAME AND FURBEARER FIREARMS
Rifles and Handguns: Any 22-Cal or smaller rimfire rifle, or any muzzleloading firearm.
Shotguns: Any having shot shell size 3.5 inches or smaller in length with No. 2 or smaller shot.

But then at the bottom is says
NONGAME FIREARMS
For unprotected species only - any firearm.

So is a yote considered a furbearer by that Game Warden?

I don't think that is very clear as far as the way it's written.


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## 60Grit

*COYOTES​​​​may be taken during all big game​
hunts with big game weapons, and small game​hunts with small game weapons. Electronic calls​may be used between Aug. 15 and Nov. 30.

Unless he was sitting there with a muzzleloader or a bow???
**​*​​​

The regs read pretty clear to me. What caliber was he hunting with???


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## Thunderbeard

I think because it was ML Season. It should not matter, He can coyote hunt with a rifle. I could see if he had a grunt call or rattle bag, nope just preditor calls. I believe he can bet it. It is a shame he even has to go to court to fight it.


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## 7Mag Hunter

I have had some issues with the GWs in Putnam as well....
Last year I was primitive camping on the ONF well off the road,
and had my license checked earlier in the day when after dark
the same GW came by and checked me again, and pretty well
plundered my camp, looking in my cooler, my hanging (on my
camper) garbage bag, and looking in and under my truck and
camper....He asked if he could look in my camper, and I told him
"no"...He asked why, and I told him he had no business in there...
He acted kinda put out, and said he could easily go get a warrant, so I told him to go ahead, and I would wait right where I was....
He left, and checked my license again the next day...Again....


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## MoeBirds

What caliber weapon are we talkin about him having for these here varmints???

Not like a 30-06 I hope???!!


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## Wishin I was Fishin

aww 7 mag, he just wanted to be friends  he got lonely in the woods all by himself


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## turtlebug

Trapping and/or hunting are additional solutions against nuisance coyotes.  Because coyotes are a non-native species in Georgia, there is no closed season for their harvest. Foot hold or live traps can be used to capture animals. However, coyotes may prove difficult to deceive with traps and hunting may be a better solution. When hunting, predator or animal-in-distress calls are effective methods of luring in a coyote. Coyotes are valued for their thick, attractive fur and are harvested seasonally for commercial use of their pelts.


Okay, again, on the Coyote fact sheet on the DNR website, they mention there's no closed season, but then they mention that coyotes are valued for their fur so does that mean they're calling them a furbearer?

I hate that your friend got a ticket, but I'm glad this was brought up because it's a question I've had since I sat down and read this year's book.  Seems kind of catch-22-ish to me the way it reads.


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## 60Grit

My understanding of the regs.......

.22 cal, except during big game season where like weapons can be used.


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## Wishin I was Fishin

please enlighten me when you figure out how to get a stick of dynamite lit at the exact right moment to kill a yote...

better yet gettin yer hands on a couple sticks of dynamite legally


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## turtlebug

Wishin I was Fishin said:


> please enlighten me when you figure out how to get a stick of dynamite lit at the exact right moment to kill a yote...



Or where to put it?


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## lvr4570

My $0.02...
I was at the DNR office in Socal Circle last Friday asking that very question, and some others, to one of the Wildlife Managers.
Since coyotes and Hogs are non-native, there is no designated season, except the time in August-Dec when you can use electronic calls for yotes and hunting the hogs at night with bait and a light. Otherwise, it's 'open-season' all year long on both critters.
The same gun rules apply as big game, so they can be 'humanely dispatched'.


We also discovered you can be cited for hunting over 'bait' if any seeds on your plot are just sitting on top and not turned over. 
Corn, in particular, must be in the ground with roots or it is considered 'baiting'.
We always have to turn over the seed in our plots, otherwise the turkeys get them before they can even get roots.


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## Thunderbeard

I know he plans on fighting this.


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## MoeBirds

Not to be a trouble maker, its not my style, but what caliber was he shooting with (???) and why wasn't he hunting deer with a muzzle loader like the rest of us. Seems rather odd to not be going after the targeted game during the given season and still after varmints?!

The ML season is only a week long. He had the whole dang spring and summer to go after predators. 
......You wait all year to go deer hunting and when the season opens up, you decide it'd be a good time to go shoot some yotes?!
Seems he'd have thought about this possibility of being questioned about it by a GW when he went dont ya think???


I'm sure that Game Warden's seen many a poacher with this or that caller/caliber/weapon-type with him and saying he was hunting something else during a certain season, when in fact he was not?!
Just reasoning this is why the GW did what he did at first....must've believed him to rip it up (1st ticket), but wrote the other (2nd ticket) just in case he was wrong to do so?!


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## SELFBOW

You have to use what weapons are allowed for that season. just like you cant hunt them with a rifle during turkey season either.


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## jimbo4116

MoeBirds said:


> Not to be a trouble maker, its not my style, but what caliber was he shooting with (???) and why wasn't he hunting deer with a muzzle loader like the rest of us. Seems rather odd to not be going after the targeted game during the given season and still after varmints?!
> 
> The ML season is only a week long. He had the whole dang spring and summer to go after predators.
> ......You wait all year to go deer hunting and when the season opens up, you decide it'd be a good time to go shoot some yotes?!
> Seems he'd have thought about this possibility of being questioned about it by a GW when he went dont ya think???
> 
> 
> I'm sure that Game Warden's seen many a poacher with this or that caller/caliber/weapon-type with him and saying he was hunting something else during a certain season, when in fact he was not?!
> Just reasoning this is why the GW did what he did at first....must've believed him to rip it up (1st ticket), but wrote the other (2nd ticket) just in case he was wrong to do so?!



I have been sitting in a stand everyday this week looking to reduce the coyote population, which has exploded down here this year, with a .22Mag.  No calls of any kind just yelping and screeching with my big mouth.  I didn't wait all year, seems we had a bumper crop of pups this spring, I was unaware of until they started showing up on my cameras.

I quess I could have been charged with hunting out of season and with an illegal weapon.

Seems to me DNR needs to clear this up.  Maybe there needs to be a call in number to announce you are hunting coyotes or something.

It is sought of like the old language on feeders.  The book use to say the feeder or bait could be "no closer than two hundred yards OR out of sight".  Indicating you had a choice.  It took three years for them to clear that up from the first time I ask the question what did that mean.

I don't think you should be a charged with a "deer hunting" violation until you have a deer as evidence.  This is probably why the charge was changed,  lucky he didn't confiscate the weapon as evidence.

While I appreciate the DNR Rangers and the job they do, sometimes they should use a little common sense, rather than write a citation. Assuming the story the hunter is giving is true the Ranger could have just ask the hunter to terminate his hunting and come back with a proper weapon, assuming he knew what the proper weapon should be.  After all there was no deer taken.


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## Thunderbeard

buckbacks said:


> You have to use what weapons are allowed for that season. just like you cant hunt them with a rifle during turkey season either.



You can hunt coyote with rifle during turkey season. Just like you can now. You have rules for public land like nation forest and wma, not private land. You can shot them. Some are getting confused with public land regs.


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## SELFBOW

He was still hunting and that's  what it is.


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## MIG

Thunderbeard said:


> I think because it was ML Season. It should not matter, He can coyote hunt with a rifle. I could see if he had a grunt call or rattle bag, nope just preditor calls. I believe he can bet it. It is a shame he even has to go to court to fight it.



For What It's Worth...

The correct charge for hunting DEER with a modern firearm during the primitive weapons season is, in fact, "Hunting With An Illegal Weapon" (see OCGA 27-3-4 paragraph 2), it is not "Hunting Out Of Season".

Yes, coyotes can be hunted with a rifle...at any time of the year on private lands.

BTW, I noticed you specifically stated he didn't have a "grunt call or rattle bag".  What about a scent lure - something along the lines of, say, doe in estrous?


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## SELFBOW

Primitive weapons hunters may not possess
any centerfire or rimfire firearm while hunting
during the primitive weapons season for deer.
Scopes are legal for primitive weapons


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## Thunderbeard

No scent lures. Just preditor calls and rifle. He did speak with a Capt. with DNR. The Capt said that " If you had of seen a 10 pt you would have shot it, I know I would." Thats just wrong. Don't get me wrong, I respect DNR and I appreciate there work, But that comment was wrong.


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## Thunderbeard

buckbacks said:


> Primitive weapons hunters may not possess
> any centerfire or rimfire firearm while hunting
> during the primitive weapons season for deer.
> Scopes are legal for primitive weapons



He was not a Primitive weapon hunter for deer, He was a hunter for Coyote.


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## MonroeTaco

buckbacks said:


> Primitive weapons hunters may not possess
> any centerfire or rimfire firearm while hunting
> during the primitive weapons season for deer.
> Scopes are legal for primitive weapons



But if you possess a centerfire or rimfire firearm then you are not a primitive weapons hunter unless you are also in possession of a primitive weapon at the same time. Boy they need to clarify alot of regs.


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## SELFBOW

MIG said:


> For What It's Worth...
> 
> 
> Yes, coyotes can be hunted with a rifle...at any time of the year on private lands.



please show where it says this. I don't see it.


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## MIG

buckbacks said:


> Primitive weapons hunters may not possess
> any centerfire or rimfire firearm while hunting
> during the primitive weapons season for deer.
> Scopes are legal for primitive weapons



Not quite.  The law (27-3-6) below..

"It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any center-fire or rimfire firearm _while hunting with a bow and arrow _during archery or primitive weapons season for deer or _while hunting with a muzzleloading firearm_ during a primitive weapons season for deer".


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## SELFBOW

Thunderbeard said:


> He was not a Primitive weapon hunter for deer, He was a hunter for Coyote.



he was hunting during a primitive weapon season.
you have got to realize you can only hunt with what is allowed during an open season. 
for animals with no closed season you still can only hunt with what is allowed during that season.
I can understand pretty easy myself.


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## SELFBOW

MIG said:


> Not quite.  The law (27-3-6) below..
> 
> "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any center-fire or rimfire firearm _while hunting with a bow and arrow _during archery or primitive weapons season for deer or _while hunting with a muzzleloading firearm_ during a primitive weapons season for deer".



my quote is straight out of the rulebook. I am not a stickler for the rules but it is easily understandable if you just read them.


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## MIG

buckbacks said:


> please show where it says this. I don't see it.



Official Code of Georgia (OCGA) 27-3-4.  Legal weapons for hunting wildlife generally 


_It shall be unlawful to hunt wildlife with any weapon, except that:

      (8) There are no firearms restrictions for taking nongame animals or nongame birds; and_

I deleted paragraph #'s 1 thru 7 and #9 for brevity.  

Note:  Exceptions may include WMAs, refuges, etc.


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## Thunderbeard

MIG said:


> Official Code of Georgia (OCGA) 27-3-4.  Legal weapons for hunting wildlife generally
> 
> 
> _It shall be unlawful to hunt wildlife with any weapon, except that:
> 
> (8) There are no firearms restrictions for taking nongame animals or nongame birds; and_
> 
> I deleted paragraph #'s 1 thru 7 and #9 for brevity.
> 
> Note:  Exceptions may include WMAs, refuges, etc.



Thanks MIG


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## MonroeTaco

So basically you can carry ANY weapon ANY time of year in the woods as long as your not using that weapon to hunt game out of it's particular season. That's how I read it.


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## SELFBOW

you guys still don't get it.
you still have to use what is in open season.
if archery season is in you can only hunt with archery or .22 or smaller.
if muzzy is in only muzzy or archery
if gun season in whatever you want.


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## K80

buckbacks said:


> he was hunting during a primitive weapon season.
> you have got to realize you can only hunt with what is allowed during an open season.
> for animals with no closed season you still can only hunt with what is allowed during that season.
> I can understand pretty easy myself.




buckbacks, primitive weapon season is for deer not all game therefore it only applies to deer unless you are on wma's, natonal forest land, and etc.


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## MIG

buckbacks said:


> my quote is straight out of the rulebook. I am not a stickler for the rules but it is easily understandable if you just read them.



That is the way the "rulebook", commonly known as the Popular Guide, has it written.  Unfortunately, the rulebook doesn't always EXACTLY quote the actual law.


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## Thunderbeard

buckbacks said:


> you guys still don't get it.
> you still have to use what is in open season.
> if archery season is in you can only hunt with archery or .22 or smaller.
> if muzzy is in only muzzy or archery
> if gun season in whatever you want.



So, What your saying is in late Feb and early Mar, when seasons are over, You cant hunt them at all? I dont thank SO


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## FishingAddict

so....your friend was toten' a 30 30 and thought if he put a couple of coyote calls in his pocket he could claim he was looken' for vermits, eh?

Funny how smart dem law men are, aint it?


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## MonroeTaco

Doesn't  rabbit season intermingle with deer season? If I was hunting rabbit with a 22 rimfire and a GW stopped me, would I get cited for deer hunting with a 22 rimfire? I understand your point, but the regs aren't quite cut and dry as DNR thinks. The GW can cite alot of hunters for alot of things if he wants to. I think the regs are written in code so they can translate as they see fit.


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## Buck Only

MIG said:


> Official Code of Georgia (OCGA) 27-3-4.  Legal weapons for hunting wildlife generally
> 
> 
> _It shall be unlawful to hunt wildlife with any weapon, except that:
> 
> (8) There are no firearms restrictions for taking nongame animals or nongame birds; and_
> 
> I deleted paragraph #'s 1 thru 7 and #9 for brevity.
> 
> Note:  Exceptions may include WMAs, refuges, etc.




This is correct!  You can use any weapon anytime of the year for yotes and hogs on private land...........a warden told me this, so if this is incorrect then the warden was incorrect.


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## FishingAddict

It could be a crazy thought here, but I believe that the rules were written to make it legal to shoot a coyote if you happened to be carrying a 30 06 while deer hunting...

But if it is not deer season and you are carring a large bore rifle you gotta think that't not the wise weapon to be carrying.

But what do I know?  Im not a hunter of deer!


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## K80

FishingAddict said:


> so....your friend was toten' a 30 30 and thought if he put a couple of coyote calls in his pocket he could claim he was looken' for vermits, eh?
> 
> Funny how smart dem law men are, aint it?




I guess that means while I was sitting in the blind holding a 30 06 waiting on hogs to come into the food plot I was illegally deer hunting even though I let every deer I saw walk and never once picked up my gun when one walked out?  I don't think so, I haven't read all the laws on yote's but if they are thought of just like a hog you can hunt for them year round with any legal hunting weapon(not just the weapon that is in season for deer or small game but any of them at any time).


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## Buck Only

FishingAddict said:


> It could be a crazy thought here, but I believe that the rules were written to make it legal to shoot a coyote if you happened to be carrying a 30 06 while deer hunting...
> 
> But if it is not deer season and you are carring a large bore rifle you gotta think that't not the wise weapon to be carrying.
> 
> But what do I know?  Im not a hunter of deer!



The rules state ANY weapon, so what does it matter?  I have killed MANY coyotes with a 30-06, bow, 223 and other weapons......the Bow made the biggest hole!


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## Tiger Rag

buckbacks said:


> you guys still don't get it.
> you still have to use what is in open season.
> if archery season is in you can only hunt with archery or .22 or smaller.
> if muzzy is in only muzzy or archery
> if gun season in whatever you want.



I think that you are getting confused with the regs for WMAs.  You can hunt coyotes with a rifle on private lands regardless of the season.

Any firearm is legal for unprotected nongame wildlife, which includes coyotes.  Coyotes are not furbearers in GA.


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## Wishin I was Fishin

good lord, ya'll sound like a buncha women yakkin over them rules... no offense ladies.  the rules are gone get broke the same... im sure a poacher would have said the same thing and a game warden wouldnt know the difference based upon walkin up on a random character in the woods


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## K80

Wishin I was Fishin said:


> good lord, ya'll sound like a buncha women yakkin over them rules... no offense ladies.  the rules are gone get broke the same... im sure a poacher would have said the same thing and a game warden wouldnt know the difference based upon walkin up on a random character in the woods




Hey watch it with the sounding like women comment, I can put your post count to ZERO at the other forum.

And you are correct a poacher is going to poach but I wasn't poaching when I was hog hunting with my 06, I was hog hunting not deer hunting.


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## Lead Poison

*That Captain's remark was waaaay out of line, and unprofessional!*



Thunderbeard said:


> The Capt said that " If you had of seen a 10 pt you would have shot it, I know I would." Thats just wrong.



To that totally stupid remark; I would have replied, "Using your own logic Captain, if you were offered a $500 bribe, I'm sure I can also assume you would take it????"


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## SELFBOW

The gw is not going to take "your word" for anything. if primitive weapon season is in and you are hunting with a 30.06 than you are hunting illegally regardless of what you think you are hunting.
if no open season is in(for deer) it is assumed you are hog/coyote or whatever hunting unless there is a deer in your possession.
I'm not sure how I got myself into this argument but I am out.Y'all figure it out.


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## K80

Lead Poison said:


> To that totally stupid remark; I would have replied, "Using your own logic Captain, if you were offered a $500 bribe, I'm sure I can also assume you would take it????"



I don't see that post anywhere I guess the mods pulled it, was it towards me?  If it was I'm not offended because he don't know me from joe blow poacher but FYI I wouldn't have shot it because I have more pride and integrity than to shoot it illegally.  I might would have went back to the camp and grabbed my bow and put the riffle in the truck and hoped I could see him later but my 06 WILL NOT be fired at any deer no matter how big or small till rifle season starts.  If it wasn't towards my early post then ignore this post.


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## FishingAddict

K80shooter said:


> I guess that means will I was sitting in the blind holding a 30 06 waiting on hogs to come into the food plot I was illegally deer hunting even though I let every deer I saw walk and never once picked up my gun when one walked out?  I don't think so, I haven't read all the laws on yote's but if they are thought of just like a hog you can hunt for them year round with any legal hunting weapon(not just the weapon that is in season for deer or small game but any of them at any time).




Aha!  The differnce here is that you were targeting Hogs, not coyotes!


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## FishingAddict

Buck Only said:


> The rules state ANY weapon, so what does it matter?  I have killed MANY coyotes with a 30-06, bow, 223 and other weapons......the Bow made the biggest hole!



Again, if the game warden sees ya carrying a 30 30 for not other reason to hit a coyote, he is gonna wonder...but if you hit a coyote with a 30 30 while deer hunting you are in the clear.


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## K80

buckbacks said:


> The gw is not going to take "your word" for anything. if primitive weapon season is in and you are hunting with a 30.06 than you are hunting illegally regardless of what you think you are hunting.
> if no open season is in(for deer) it is assumed you are hog/coyote or whatever hunting unless there is a deer in your possession.
> I'm not sure how I got myself into this argument but I am out.Y'all figure it out.



We will just have to agree to disagree, I wasn't hunting illegally and I don't think I was hunting hogs I know I was hunting hogs and there were plenty of hog sign in the food plots and near by woods to prove that we have hogs where I was hunting.  I checked on this before I carried my 06 in the woods, I didn't check for me but another guy on my club and when I found out it was legal I decided to do some hog hunting as well.  I can show anyone that don't believe me the bones of the 4 hogs I killed.

One other thing if you look at where you quoted this 

"Primitive weapons hunters may not possess
any centerfire or rimfire firearm while hunting
during the primitive weapons season for deer.
Scopes are legal for primitive weapons"

In green at the top of the page it will say deer hunting regulations. You are reading correctly but are not comprehending what you are reading(I'm not trying to offend you with this comment, I don't get my kicks and giggles by offending folks)


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## K80

FishingAddict said:


> Again, if the game warden sees ya carrying a 30 30 for not other reason to hit a coyote, he is gonna wonder...but if you hit a coyote with a 30 30 while deer hunting you are in the clear.



You are correct and I stated in my first post if hogs and yotes are in the same group.  I'm not seeing where the regs state if yotes are non native, that is what will make the difference in his case.  Ok I've used up all of my cache memory so I'm going to restart my puter so that I can download the regs.  Will be back in a few.


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## Hawghead

If im understanding what everyone is bickering about...you are basically saying...i cant coyote hunt during bow season or coyote hunt during muzzleloader season.   There is no law as to what calibers you MUST coyote hunt with...if i wanted to go out and coyote hunt...i would bring my 270  because i dont have a "varmint" gun...am i guilty...no..and that wont stand up in court in my opinion. Im not taking sides as to if he was really coyote hunting or not...im saying...there is a grey area in the rules.   It will be dropped in court.


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## K80

Under  2007-2008 STATE HUNTING SEASON DATES AND LIMITS One-Page Summary
I don’t see yote’s mention under small game- this leads be to believe that yote’s are not small game in the states eye’s.  But could have just be left off because there is no season for yote’s although, if that was the case and yote’s were small game I would think that they would have them listed there and say season is year round.

By the end of the section for legal firearms I have seen where all other small game and big game has been mentioned other than yote’s.  The last firearm reg is NONGAME FIREARMS:  For unprotected species only-any firearm.  Because I’ve saw no mention of yote’s as a game animal up to this point I’m still lead to believe that yotes are not small game.

The first place that I see yote’s mentioned is under LEGAL HOURS  of the GENERAL HUNTING REGULATIONS in this paragraph the animals listed are referred to as animals and not game animals.  The only  reason that I can see that game animals where not used is because there are animals listed that are non-game animals.  

The first place that I see where someone could conclude that a yote is considered small game is under Bear, Turkey, Feral Hog, Alligator & Small Game Regulations.  Under SMALL GAME of the before mention section yotes are mention but at the same time as armadillos, groundhogs, beavers, starlings, pigeons and English sparrows, and I don’t think any of the mentioned animals are game animals.  I’m not 100% sure about that at this point so if anyone can show proof that some of those are game animals please correct me.  At the same time it also reads as though you can use electronic calls year round on yote’s unless you are on a wma and then on a wma it is between Aug. 15 Nov. 30 only.

Ok there is one place that really leads me to that yote’s are NOT small game and that is under the General WMA Hunting Regs.  Under this section there is a section called SMALL GAME, FURBEARERS, FALCONRY & COYOTES.  Because yote’s are mention by themselves and not clumped in with small game nor furbearers I conclude that yote’s are neither small game nor furbearers.  The regs that are under this section do not apply to private land only wma’s and etc. but because yote’s are not considered small game nor furbearers here they wouldn’t be considered small game or furbearers in any other section.

This is not legal advice and is not meant to be taken as such, this is only my logic and support for coming to the conclusion that yote’s are not small game nor furbearers.  In my opinion if in doubt call the local DNR and talk with them just to make sure that you are legal.

Also the Georgia regs are not the written law only a summary of law from my understanding therefore, the Georgia Code on hunting should be consulted as well to make sure that there is no language mentioning that  yote’s are a member of small game or furbearers.  I am not going to spend my time reading the Georgia Code although, for a large fee compensating me for my time and comprehension of what I read I might would consider it but it wouldn’t be considered legal advice only to assist you in comprehending to some degree what is stated in the Georgia Code.

This is why I believe what I believe, if anyone still disagrees please show me why you disagree.  I might not be 100% correct but I can support the conclusions that I have came to.  As stated before, regardless of what I think the local DNR should be consulted to make sure that you are legal in hunting any animals if you are in doubt of how the regs are written.


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## K80

Hawghead said:


> If im understanding what everyone is bickering about...you are basically saying...i cant coyote hunt during bow season or coyote hunt during muzzleloader season.   There is no law as to what calibers you MUST coyote hunt with...if i wanted to go out and coyote hunt...i would bring my 270  because i dont have a "varmint" gun...am i guilty...no..and that wont stand up in court in my opinion. Im not taking sides as to if he was really coyote hunting or not...im saying...there is a grey area in the rules.   It will be dropped in court.




The part in red is my sentiment as well!!


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## turtlebug

Is there possibly a Game Warden or Ranger in the house?

I'm sooooo confused right now!


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## K80

turtlebug said:


> Is there possibly a Game Warden or Ranger in the house?
> 
> I'm sooooo confused right now!



 Why is that? 

There are some that are members but I don't think they would post in this thread but if you called one I'm sure they would be glad to discuss any quesions you have. 

 is your new mayo better than the one with lime? I agree with you in that other post that kind of stuff gripes me.


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## big buck blaster

Tell Your Friend To Get Him A Cross Bow,there Legal All Seasons And Will Ruin A Yotes Day. Also If That 10pt. Comes Up The Warrden Was Telling Him About, He Can Shoot It Too.


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## Judge

Coyotes listed as Small Game on Page 12 reg book.  Small game weapons listed on Page 7.  Could that be where citation is based.


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## MIG

K80shooter,

you are correct regarding the legal status of coyotes, but I could've saved ya some time with your research.  Georgia law (27-1-2) actually defines what you've been looking for.  

The term "Game Animal" is defined in law as being the following: Fox, Opposum, Rabbit, Deer, Sea Turtles and their eggs, Cougars (yep, I know...), Alligators, Raccoons, Squirrel, Bobcat, Bear, and Crocodiles.  

"Fur Bearing Animals" is defined as: mink, otter, raccoon, fox, opossum, muskrat, skunk, bobcat, and weasel.

While coyotes are neither game animals nor fur bearers, as defined in law, they are "wildlife", which is also defined.


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## K80

Judge said:


> Coyotes listed as Small Game on Page 12 reg book.  Small game weapons listed on Page 7.  Could that be where citation is based.



Judge, I mentioned that in my long post but where they are mentioned is with what I think are other non-game animals.


----------



## K80

MIG said:


> K80shooter,
> 
> you are correct regarding the legal status of coyotes, but I could've saved ya some time with your research.  Georgia law (27-1-2) actually defines what you've been looking for.
> 
> The term "Game Animal" is defined in law as being the following: Fox, Opposum, Rabbit, Deer, Sea Turtles and their eggs, Cougars (yep, I know...), Alligators, Raccoons, Squirrel, Bobcat, Bear, and Crocodiles.
> 
> "Fur Bearing Animals" is defined as: mink, otter, raccoon, fox, opossum, muskrat, skunk, bobcat, and weasel.
> 
> While coyotes are neither game animals nor fur bearers, as defined in law, they are "wildlife", which is also defined.



 It's a little to late to tell me that now.  The research didn't take all that long just composing it did.  I was pretty sure they were defined but I'm just not sure where to find the Georgia Code at.  I guess that needs to be what my next research is and then to add the link to the code as a fav.


----------



## MIG

Here ya go, bud.

http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/

After getting the first page, hit the "Ok - Close " button and on the next screen click the "+" sign next to Title 27.   After that, you're on your own.  Enjoy!


----------



## Judge

*Never Seen Contested*

Only time I saw it guy pled guilty.  It was midnight and he was coyote hunting at night with 270 in November.  He would pull in fields and hit light.  He convinced warden he was trying to kill yotes, but warden wrote him up for weapon violation as noted above.  I'll have to check but there are about 4 inches of game and fish regulations which may have something on this issue.


----------



## Coastie

turtlebug said:


> Trapping and/or hunting are additional solutions against nuisance coyotes.  Because coyotes are a non-native species in Georgia, there is no closed season for their harvest. Foot hold or live traps can be used to capture animals. However, coyotes may prove difficult to deceive with traps and hunting may be a better solution. When hunting, predator or animal-in-distress calls are effective methods of luring in a coyote. Coyotes are valued for their thick, attractive fur and are harvested seasonally for commercial use of their pelts.
> 
> 
> Okay, again, on the Coyote fact sheet on the DNR website, they mention there's no closed season, but then they mention that coyotes are valued for their fur so does that mean they're calling them a furbearer?
> 
> I hate that your friend got a ticket, but I'm glad this was brought up because it's a question I've had since I sat down and read this year's book.  Seems kind of catch-22-ish to me the way it reads.



Coyotes from the Southeast are not all that valuable for their fur. Typically they are used primarily for trim on garments since we don't have weather cold enough for them to get good and thick. The Trapping/Furbearer season begins on December 1st when the fur is as close to prime as it ever gets here in the south so anybody shooting Coyotes this time of year is primarily doing so as a public service. The pelt damage typically done by varmint caliber weapons usually messes them up beyond use for the fur trade unless a bullet completely blows up internally. Beyond that, I don't think the probate judge in that county will look favorably on this particular ticket, something possibly going on beyond simply shooting Coyotes perhaps. There are Coyote hunters here in this area that shoot them year round with no problem from the DNR, day, night, with lights and with IR sights. I would really like to know the rest of this story and the final outcome.


----------



## 60Grit

Coastie said:


> I would really like to know the rest of this story and the final outcome.


 
Kind of my thought as well.


----------



## jody7818

According to page 8 of the regulations, coyotes are considered nongame wildlife.  It states:  "It is unlawful to take nongame wildlife except fiddler crabs, coyotes, armadillos,..."  That statement categorizes coyotes under nongame.  Now...turn to page 7 of the regulations and read the section titled "Nongame Firearms".  It states:  "For unprotected species only-any firearm." 

Folks...that's as clear as it gets.

ThunderBeard:  Tell your friend to show this to the judge (nothing else), and he should be let go free and clear.


----------



## Coastie

Judge said:


> Coyotes listed as Small Game on Page 12 reg book.  Small game weapons listed on Page 7.  Could that be where citation is based.



The only place in the regulations that I have found about weapons for Coyotes is on WMAs where they may be legally taken with small game weapons during small game season, archery equipment during archery seasons and with big game weapons during big game seasons. Beyond that, especially on private property, they may be taken with any weapon at any time.


----------



## Thunderbeard

60Grit said:


> Kind of my thought as well.



When I find out the outcome, I will post it.


----------



## Branchminnow

MoeBirds said:


> :. Seems rather odd to not be going after the targeted game during the given season and still after varmints?!
> 
> The ML season is only a week long. He had the whole dang spring and summer to go after predators.
> ......You wait all year to go deer hunting and when the season opens up, you decide it'd be a good time to go shoot some yotes?!
> Seems he'd have thought about this possibility of being questioned about it by a GW when he went dont ya think???



 So I guess when I get my bird dogs out and I m carrying my shotgun and they just happen to get on a deer(which they never have, but dogs are unpredictable) so then Im running deer with dogs?

Your logic is nonsense.


----------



## Branchminnow

buckbacks said:


> he was hunting during a primitive weapon season.
> you have got to realize you can only hunt with what is allowed during an open season.
> for animals with no closed season you still can only hunt with what is allowed during that season.
> I can understand pretty easy myself.



No man, thats wrong, WHO is a GW to say to me WHAT type of game animal Im hunting. Ive hunted squirrel during deer season with a .22 automatically Im hunting deer because its deer season and Small Game??????


----------



## Branchminnow

buckbacks said:


> you guys still don't get it.
> you still have to use what is in open season.
> if archery season is in you can only hunt with archery or .22 or smaller.
> if muzzy is in only muzzy or archery
> if gun season in whatever you want.



You need to think about what you are saying here buddy.


Everybody does not hunt deer. I hunted them last year and foever before that, with bow PW and Rifle. This year I have not went, yet. IMO Its not gotten cold enough for me to enjoy it.
So with that being said, DEER do not rule the hunting in this state( contrary to poplar belief.)


----------



## Thunderbeard

Branchminnow said:


> You need to think about what you are saying here buddy.
> 
> 
> Everybody does not hunt deer. I hunted them last year and foever before that, with bow PW and Rifle. This year I have not went, yet. IMO Its not gotten cold enough for me to enjoy it.
> So with that being said, DEER do not rule the hunting in this state( contrary to poplar belief.)



Branch, Your dead on the money. I think people are getting confusied with Public land and WMA regulations.


----------



## Branchminnow

buckbacks said:


> The gw is not going to take "your word" for anything. if primitive weapon season is in and you are hunting with a 30.06 than you are hunting illegally regardless of what you think you are hunting.
> if no open season is in(for deer) it is assumed you are hog/coyote or whatever hunting unless there is a deer in your possession.
> I'm not sure how I got myself into this argument but I am out.Y'all figure it out.



If that is so....then reckon how come he came back and tore up the ticket.


----------



## Branchminnow

OK Ia admit it I should have read the whole thread before commenting. You fellas did a good job, trying to teach common sense.


----------



## contender*

Branchminnow said:


> No man, thats wrong, WHO is a GW to say to me WHAT type of game animal Im hunting. Ive hunted squirrel during deer season with a .22 automatically Im hunting deer because its deer season and Small Game??????




My thoughts exactly!!! The only way he should have been charged with doing something illegally is if he has DONE something illegal. If he's dragging a doe out of the woods toting his 06 then he is guilty. It amazes me the power these GW's seem to have to foresee what someone is going to do before that person actually does it. (or to mind read in general). I am scared to death to hunt squirrels with my magnum during deer season for fear of being accused of hunting deer with an unapproved weapon! This deal with hogs and yotes needs to be cleared up in the regs and not left to unofficial debate amongst ourselves. I really believe they leave loopholes like this in the regulations so it makes it easier to prosecute poachers, but it also makes it hard on the honest man when he has to prove innocence.


----------



## potsticker

While i dont hav a dog in this fight, i can tell you the warden is right. If i was a law enforcement officer and came upon a guy with a center fire rifle during black powder season, id be obliged to write a ticket, no matter what kind of calls he had.Its a shame that it comes down to this, splitting hairs, yotes can be taken any time, you have to know when and where, its a greek tragidy this had to happen.Game wardens have a tough time, this makes it only that much tougher.


----------



## Just BB

buckbacks said:


> you guys still don't get it.
> you still have to use what is in open season.
> if archery season is in you can only hunt with archery or .22 or smaller.
> if muzzy is in only muzzy or archery
> if gun season in whatever you want.



Where does it say that? Is says FOR DEER


----------



## Thunderbeard

potsticker said:


> While i dont hav a dog in this fight, i can tell you the warden is right. If i was a law enforcement officer and came upon a guy with a center fire rifle during black powder season, id be obliged to write a ticket, no matter what kind of calls he had.Its a shame that it comes down to this, splitting hairs, yotes can be taken any time, you have to know when and where, its a greek tragidy this had to happen.Game wardens have a tough time, this makes it only that much tougher.



I agree, They do have a tough time and do an outstanding job, However, Just make sure if you yote hunt during March April and May, you dont do it with any type of rifle, or would be considered turkey hunting with a rifle. I thank it was a bad call on the REF.


----------



## Randy

Ok I can't help but weigh in here.

I coyote hunt year round and even use to do it at night till I got hassled so many times for being accused of shinning deer.  I quit hunting at night because it was not worth the headache!

There is no closed season on coyotes and any weapon is leagal as long as you are talking private land.  WMA's and some National Forest lands are different.  You need to know the laws in effect there.

That being said, I do not know this friend of yours and was not there.  I do not know for what reason the ranger cited your friend.  Meaning what made the ranger think your friend was deer hunting.  At any rate, unfortunately that will be for the Ranger to prove in court.  Remember this is only a citation.  He is not guilty until found so in court and that "should" only happen if the ranger can prove he was.  The ranger will have the judge on his/her side.  Though the judge should not be biased, but one can only believe that most of us, including a judge will take any LE side over a citizen.  But again it is up to your frined to make the ranger prove he was doing something illegal.

As THunter said, it is a known fact that most hunters that are cited don't fight the case.  Maybe because they truely were doing something illegal or they do not have the time or money to fight it?  If your friend truely was not guilty he should stand up for his rights in court.  He does not have to have a lawyer, he can fight it on his own.  He needs to remember he is not guilty until the ranger proves it in court.  

BTW, it is not illegal to use doe in estrous as a cover scent while coyote hunting.  You should not jump to conclusions.

Tell your friend if he is guilty, please do not waste our tax dollars fighting the citation but if he is innocent he should fight it to the end!

Yes the DNR has a tough job.  But sometimes they make their job tougher!  Take a hunter for his word unless you can prove he was doing something wrong.  Maybe the ranger can in this case.  Maybe we do not know the whole story.  I to would like to hear the end result.


----------



## BDD

I was in north GA (Charlie's Creek) hunting hogs with a 22 mag.  The GW stopped me, asked for my gun, I handed it to him.
He then asked to see my hunting license. I did not have it on me ( book said you didn't need one for hunting hogs)
This was small game season on NF land.  He looked at his partner in the truck scratched his head, told me there are no
 hogs around here. He gave me my gun back and said to have a nice day.  This was about 10 years ago.


----------



## polarbear

*Fight it...*

Tell your friend, if he was indeed hunting coyotes and showed no intention otherwise, to fight this ticket.  (By "No Intention Otherwise" - I mean, he wasn't hunting deer - only he knows his intentions.)  All he needs is the common hunting regulation (popular guide) book that we all pick-up at the local store - he is a hunter and not a lawyer.  
Quote the paragraph on page 12 about coyotes, armadillos, etc. - no closed season, no limit.  Then quote page 7 about unprotected species and any firearm.  How can a firearm be illegal if the regs. state you can use "any firearm".
If, by some twist of fate he is found guilty, he needs to explore all of his legal options, as this could ruin coyote hunting for quite a few of us.


----------



## Toffy

*Two things missing*

So far, I don't thnk I have seen the name of the individual charged or the "Conservation Ranger" (We don't have game Wardens anymore) who wrote the two tickets.


----------



## wranglerjoe1968

I have not even seen what caliber gun he was using


----------



## Thunderbeard

The caliber was 308 and I will not use personal names in this matter. It would not be fair to either party


----------



## MoeBirds

Branchminnow said:


> So I guess when I get my bird dogs out and I m carrying my shotgun and they just happen to get on a deer(which they never have, but dogs are unpredictable) so then Im running deer with dogs?
> 
> Your logic is nonsense.




When you delete half my post, you're right it doesn't make sense?!

If you happen to have a couple loads of buck shot in your purse you carry, you probably would be fined!?

Stick to the thread and quit pickin me out cause you took offense to the "holy roller" remark in the other one


----------



## DaveInGwinnett

MoeBirds said:


> Not to be a trouble maker, its not my style, but what caliber was he shooting with (???) and why wasn't he hunting deer with a muzzle loader like the rest of us. Seems rather odd to not be going after the targeted game during the given season and still after varmints?!
> 
> The ML season is only a week long. He had the whole dang spring and summer to go after predators.
> ......You wait all year to go deer hunting and when the season opens up, you decide it'd be a good time to go shoot some yotes?!
> Seems he'd have thought about this possibility of being questioned about it by a GW when he went dont ya think???
> 
> 
> I'm sure that Game Warden's seen many a poacher with this or that caller/caliber/weapon-type with him and saying he was hunting something else during a certain season, when in fact he was not?!
> Just reasoning this is why the GW did what he did at first....must've believed him to rip it up (1st ticket), but wrote the other (2nd ticket) just in case he was wrong to do so?!



As a person that hunts coyotes with a 308 year round, I take issue with this stance. Coyotes can LEGALLY be hunted on private land year round. While the boys in green may not like it, too bad. The GA DNR has a 99% say as far as game/fish regulations are concerned in GA. They make their recommendations, send them to the game/fish committee and they quickly hit it with a rubber stamp. If it's a raging problem, why haven't they outlawed predator hunting during state deer seasons?

As far as the ticketed friend goes, often there's more to the story than you're told. Stop by the county seat for the county in question and see the clerk of court. All citations are open court records and you can get a copy of the report and citation. It just might read a little different than you think.

To clarify, in GA it is legal to hunt coyotes:

- Using any weapon (shotgun, rifle, ML, Bow, X-bow)
- With electronic and/or manual calls (can now use electronic calls on WMAs)
- Coyotes are an invasive species, not fur bearers.


----------



## MoeBirds

DaveInGwinnett said:


> As a person that hunts coyotes with a 308 year round, I take issue with this stance. Coyotes can LEGALLY be hunted on private land year round. While the boys in green may not like it, too bad. The GA DNR has a 99% say as far as game/fish regulations are concerned in GA. They make their recommendations, send them to the game/fish committee and they quickly hit it with a rubber stamp. If it's a raging problem, why haven't they outlawed predator hunting during state deer seasons?
> 
> As far as the ticketed friend goes, often there's more to the story than you're told. Stop by the county seat for the county in question and see the clerk of court. All citations are open court records and you can get a copy of the report and citation. It just might read a little different than you think.
> 
> To clarify, in GA it is legal to hunt coyotes:
> 
> - Using any weapon (shotgun, rifle, ML, Bow, X-bow)
> - With electronic and/or manual calls (can now use electronic calls on WMAs)
> - Coyotes are an invasive species, not fur bearers.




....ah..Tell it to the Judge


----------



## MCBUCK

turtlebug said:


> Is there possibly a Game Warden or Ranger in the house?
> 
> I'm sooooo confused right now!



 Love the pic, "bug" !!


----------



## Thunderbeard

I am sure there are several people who have doubts if my friend is telling the truth or not, I know I would if I were in your shoes. However I know this fellow pretty well and believe him whole hearted. I just wanted everyone to look at the situation and if you are a varmit/ hog hunter be aware. That this could be you and others may be doubting your ethics as well.


----------



## GoldDot40

A lot of citations issued are based on judgment. If the GW "thinks" he was hunting deer illegally and using the coyote hunting as an excuse, that's his choice. Whether he's right or wrong at this point doesn't matter. It was his gut feeling. It is up to the alleged offender to prove his innocence, in which case it'll be up to the judge/jury to decide based on the stories of both individuals. As said already, I'd fight it to the end if I KNOW I wasn't doing anything illegal.


----------



## elfiii

Bassquatch said:


> It is up to the alleged offender to prove his innocence, in which case it'll be up to the judge/jury to decide based on the stories of both individuals. As said already, I'd fight it to the end if I KNOW I wasn't doing anything illegal.



Uh, a small point Bass, but I think its' the other way around - you are innocent until proven guilty. I would fight it too.


----------



## Snakeman

There's a couple of more bits of information I'd like to know, if it's available.......

1) Was the man hunting on the ground, or in a tree stand?

2) Was the man wearing flourescent orange?

The answers to these questions may have led the Ranger to believe the man was hunting deer, rather than coyotes.

And by the way, innocent until proven guilty is a Constitutional Right, and is by NO MEANS a small point.

The Snakeman


----------



## contender*

THunter said:


> Here's a question.  If, as one poster stated you have to use the weapon legal for deer at the time when hunting coyotes in deer season (ie a muzzleloader vs. a rifle in PM season), then why are small game seasons open concurrent with deer season, as I'm pretty certain it is illegal to hunt deer with a 12 gauge loaded with rabbit shot?



Or a 22 mag


----------



## contender*

Snakeman said:


> There's a couple of more bits of information I'd like to know, if it's available.......
> 
> 1) Was the man hunting on the ground, or in a tree stand?
> 
> 2) Was the man wearing flourescent orange?
> 
> The answers to these questions may have led the Ranger to believe the man was hunting deer, rather than coyotes.
> 
> And by the way, innocent until proven guilty is a Constitutional Right, and is by NO MEANS a small point.
> 
> The Snakeman



What would it matter if he was hunting from a stand or not and wouldn't it be a bit stupid NOT to wear blaze now that ML season is open? I still say that GW's need to quit mind reading  and stick to catching the folks that ARE BREAKING LAWS!


----------



## GoldDot40

elfiii said:


> Uh, a small point Bass, but I think its' the other way around - you are innocent until proven guilty. I would fight it too.



I am aware of the way it is written...if you choose to be 'politically correct', but we both know that's not how it works it reality.


----------



## Snakeman

contender* said:


> What would it matter if he was hunting from a stand or not and wouldn't it be a bit stupid NOT to wear blaze now that ML season is open? I still say that GW's need to quit mind reading  and stick to catching the folks that ARE BREAKING LAWS!


I was just pointing out that there may be other evidence that the Ranger may have considered in making his decision.  If he was on private land, not expecting others to be hunting on that land, why would he wear orange?  I don't wear orange when I walk my dog through the woods behind my house.

He is still innocent until proven guilty.  But then, so are the registered sex offenders that everyone gets so up-in-arms about when they find out they live across the street..........

The Snakeman


----------



## Coastie

THunter said:


> Here's a question.  If, as one poster stated you have to use the weapon legal for deer at the time when hunting coyotes in deer season (ie a muzzleloader vs. a rifle in PM season), then why are small game seasons open concurrent with deer season, as I'm pretty certain it is illegal to hunt deer with a 12 gauge loaded with rabbit shot?



Those regulations apply only to WMAs. Small game seasons only run concurrently with big game seasons on private land and federal/public land that are NOT on WMAs.


----------



## Branchminnow

MoeBirds said:


> When you delete half my post, you're right it doesn't make sense?!
> 
> If you happen to have a couple loads of buck shot in your purse you carry, you probably would be fined!?
> 
> Stick to the thread and quit pickin me out cause you took offense to the "holy roller" remark in the other one



I did not take offense, I just ask a question


----------



## MIG

Snakeman said:


> I was just pointing out that there may be other evidence that the Ranger may have considered in making his decision.



A very astute observation.


----------



## 7MAGMIKE

MIG said:


> Not quite.  The law (27-3-6) below..
> 
> "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any center-fire or rimfire firearm _while hunting with a bow and arrow _during archery or primitive weapons season for deer or _while hunting with a muzzleloading firearm_ during a primitive weapons season for deer".



This is one I have a problem with.  I don't understand why you can't carry a handgun in a holster.  I understand you can basically kill a deer with just about any handgun but to be out with your .40 cal Glock is out of reason.  I do carry a sidearm during gun season.  On public land you can run into some pretty lowlife characters out there.  The two legged non-bigfoot type.  Other opinions...


----------



## DeerHawg

MIG said:


> Not quite.  The law (27-3-6) below..
> 
> "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any center-fire or rimfire firearm _while hunting with a bow and arrow _during archery or primitive weapons season for deer or _while hunting with a muzzleloading firearm_ during a primitive weapons season for deer".



Yes but it say you cannot possess a CF or RF firearm while hunting "WITH" a bow....[or] a muzzleloading firearm..."FOR" deer.   He did not have a bow or a muzzleloader with him in addition to the rifle, AND he was not hunting for deer!!

The way I see it, the rules can be interpreted in many ways. And its usually the way the GW and the Judge see it that end up winning. In a perfect world, the rules and regs would be cut and dry, but we dont live in a perfect world.  In fact, we're far from it!!


----------



## truittsosebee

C'mon guys, use some common sense.  You're  asking for trouble if your're sitting in the woods with a centerfire rifle during muzzleloader season and not expecting to get a ticket if a game warden comes along.  Otherwise, you could deer hunt with a centerfire rifle year round and never get a ticket unless you were caught with a deer you had shot.  All you have to do is say you are coyote hunting, and the game warden can't touch you.


----------



## Jim Thompson

THunter said:


> You are EXACTLY right.  You most certainly can do that, but your butt is grass if you get caught with a deer.



which is the way it should be.

its almost like getting a speeding ticket BECAUSE your car can possibly go 125


----------



## jody7818

truittsosebee said:


> C'mon guys, use some common sense.  You're  asking for trouble if your're sitting in the woods with a centerfire rifle during muzzleloader season and not expecting to get a ticket if a game warden comes along.  Otherwise, you could deer hunt with a centerfire rifle year round and never get a ticket unless you were caught with a deer you had shot.  All you have to do is say you are coyote hunting, and the game warden can't touch you.



If the rules state I can use a centerfire rifle on coyotes, then I'm going to hunt them with a centerfire rifle...regardless of the season.  And not all of us have a muzzleloader to hunt with.  They are a bit inconvenient to use for coyote hunting...especially when you have a pack of them coming by and you are trying to thin the herd on your property.  It's tough with only one shot.


----------



## MIG

DeerHawg said:


> Yes but it say you cannot possess a CF or RF firearm while hunting "WITH" a bow....[or] a muzzleloading firearm..."FOR" deer.   He did not have a bow or a muzzleloader with him in addition to the rifle, AND he was not hunting for deer!!
> 
> The way I see it, the rules can be interpreted in many ways. And its usually the way the GW and the Judge see it that end up winning. In a perfect world, the rules and regs would be cut and dry, but we dont live in a perfect world.  In fact, we're far from it!!



Exactly.  Go back and read he entire thread.  This law was quoted because someone was missing the "WITH" part.  Notice the italics?  

Laws, rules, and regs are perfectly clear.  This wasn't about having a rifle during PW season...it wasn't about coyotes...it WAS about hunting deer.  Many of you are basing your opinions on a one-sided, second hand version of the events.  Snakeman hit the nail on the head a few posts prior (#100).


----------



## afowlerhogman

For every person that reads a law there are just as many interpretations of that same law. This guy was hunting COYOTES. Its up to the GW to prove different. The law stated above by buckbacks specifically talks about DEER hunting.


----------



## JRB

Not giving an opinion one way or another, but this sure has been informative.


----------



## Gun Runner

what I read is small game use small game weapon. Big game use big game weapon. PW use PW.
I think a man should be able to shoot a coyte  on his land with what ever he wants when ever he wants.
But I guess the laws the law.
You my get off iff you go to c.ourt and tell the Judge


----------



## GaSongdog

buckbacks said:


> he was hunting during a primitive weapon season.
> you have got to realize you can only hunt with what is allowed during an open season.
> for animals with no closed season you still can only hunt with what is allowed during that season.
> I can understand pretty easy myself.



heres why that dont work:
COYOTES, ARMADILLOS, GROUNDHOGS,
BEAVERS, STARLINGS, PIGEONS AND
ENGLISH SPARROWS: these are all no closed season animals, and I doubt real seriously you are going to try and shoot STARLINGS, PIGEONS AND
ENGLISH SPARROWS with a bow or muzzle loader during primitive days.....


----------



## BASS1FUN

Some Of The Wardens Don't Know The Regs Themselves. I Know This Is Off The Subject But One Of Those Clowns Gave Me A Warning Ticket For Not Having A Throwable Pfd While I Was Fishing A Jon Boat Tourney. The Regs Say You Don't Need One If Your Boat Is Under 16' And Mine Is A 10'. So Challenge Those Clowns And Keep The Regs On You.


----------



## BowanaLee

The coyote hunters actions were legal but his intentions are in question. 
Nobody knows but him ! DNR cant read minds so he should walk.   .

We need to keep up with this and see what comes out in court. There may be some evidence that we dont know about.
If hes railroaded W/O more evidence, then we should flood the office with emails wanting the Regs cleared up.
If it turns out hes hiding something.    ..They deserve a pat on the back !  .


----------



## Bruz

I spoke to the DNR office in Macon and you can legally hunt Coyotes or Hogs with a centerfire any time you want.....BUT it will be up to the discretion of the officer as to whether or not you were Deer/Turkey hunting with said weapon. 

Not worth the hassle in my opinion.


----------



## Rackbuster

Randy explained it best and as far as the ticket,I don't know for sure ,the illegal weapon is probably a lesser fine and he figured anyone would just pay it instead of carrying it to court.I'd go to court if it was as described,I have a lot of vacation time,if the jduge finds him guilty then pay the fine.


----------



## B&Crocket

I would definitely fight it. As it states in the Georgia Hunting Seasons and Regulations 2007-2007 book:

- Hunters may use electronic
calls when hunting coyote from Aug. 15
through Nov. 30 on WMAs.

- Legal hours for hunting are 30 minutes
before sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset,
except that alligators, raccoons, opossums,
foxes, coyotes, bobcats and feral hogs may
be hunted at night. However, only battery
powered lights not exceeding 6 volts

-COYOTES, ARMADILLOS, GROUNDHOGS,
BEAVERS, STARLINGS, PIGEONS AND
ENGLISH SPARROWS: No closed season. No
limit. Electronic calls may be used for hunting
coyotes (legal on WMAs between Aug. 15 and
Nov. 30 only).

-COYOTES may be taken during all big game
hunts with big game weapons, and small game
hunts with small game weapons. Electronic calls
may be used between Aug. 15 and Nov. 30.

He didn't do anything illegal. If the game warden accuses him of hunting deer, whos to say he was trying to shoot down a plane? I believe any judge would side with him over the game warden. It seems ridiculous to me. I'll be carrying this rule book with me in case something like this goes down.


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## time2hunt

I would definitely fight it. As it states in the Georgia Hunting Seasons and Regulations 2007-2007 book:

- Hunters may use electronic
calls when hunting coyote from Aug. 15
through Nov. 30 on WMAs.

- Legal hours for hunting are 30 minutes
before sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset,
except that alligators, raccoons, opossums,
foxes, coyotes, bobcats and feral hogs may
be hunted at night. However, only battery
powered lights not exceeding 6 volts

-COYOTES, ARMADILLOS, GROUNDHOGS,
BEAVERS, STARLINGS, PIGEONS AND
ENGLISH SPARROWS: No closed season. No
limit. Electronic calls may be used for hunting
coyotes (legal on WMAs between Aug. 15 and
Nov. 30 only).

-COYOTES may be taken during all big game
hunts with big game weapons, and small game
hunts with small game weapons. Electronic calls
may be used between Aug. 15 and Nov. 30.

He didn't do anything illegal. If the game warden accuses him of hunting deer, whos to say he was trying to shoot down a plane? I believe any judge would side with him over the game warden. It seems ridiculous to me. I'll be carrying this rule book with me in case something like this goes down.


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## Chuck Martin

Just an observation here regarding if you can or can not hunt coyotes with any weapon at any time of the year................one of our resident DNR folks has gone on record in this very thread as saying you can as per the regulations/law. Enough said on that portion of the subject.

Regarding the validly of the actual charge/citation, in law enforcement ( a topic I happen to know a thing or two about) the officer must have what is know as probable cause to make any charge/accusation and then present proof to establish his claim. That standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and it is up to the State to prove the case before a Judge. Up and until that point the accused is innocent until proven guilty. 

Based on the information provided within the orginal post, while the officer may have had probable cause ( read this as a rifle in a caliber normally used to hunt deer as opposed to a caliber normally used to hunt varmints and during deer season ) I believe that he will have a difficult time proving the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" to the Judge due to the potential lack of any additional supporting evidence. The caviat to that is of course unless there is additional supporting evidence that was not orginally reported in the initial posting. 

Let it play out in the system and give us a report when the case is concluded.........now, everybody get in the woods and forget about it. Good hunting.


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## Thunderbeard

I would like to thank everyone for their input in this thread. I never imagined it would still be going. I have not posted on this topic for a couple of days, due to the back and forth rules. However, I know that nobody from this forum was there nor I, We will just have to what and see the final out come. Again Thanks for you response and like Chuck said Good hunting this weekend.

TB


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## dominantpredator

7Mag Hunter said:


> I have had some issues with the GWs in Putnam as well....
> Last year I was primitive camping on the ONF well off the road,
> and had my license checked earlier in the day when after dark
> the same GW came by and checked me again, and pretty well
> plundered my camp, looking in my cooler, my hanging (on my
> camper) garbage bag, and looking in and under my truck and
> camper....He asked if he could look in my camper, and I told him
> "no"...He asked why, and I told him he had no business in there...
> He acted kinda put out, and said he could easily go get a warrant, so I told him to go ahead, and I would wait right where I was....
> He left, and checked my license again the next day...Again....



There are some people who just assumes everyone is guilty. I have noticed alot of things on FOX news that law enforcement has done that I can not believe.


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## Chuck Martin

THunter said:


> Ah, what do you know?
> 
> BTW, you still going to Texas around Christmas?



I know alot, just ask me Yep I'm still going....you in?


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## Spotlite

MoeBirds said:


> Not to be a trouble maker, its not my style, but what caliber was he shooting with (???) and why wasn't he hunting deer with a muzzle loader like the rest of us. Seems rather odd to not be going after the targeted game during the given season and still after varmints?!
> 
> The ML season is only a week long. He had the whole dang spring and summer to go after predators.
> ......You wait all year to go deer hunting and when the season opens up, you decide it'd be a good time to go shoot some yotes?!
> Seems he'd have thought about this possibility of being questioned about it by a GW when he went dont ya think???
> 
> 
> I'm sure that Game Warden's seen many a poacher with this or that caller/caliber/weapon-type with him and saying he was hunting something else during a certain season, when in fact he was not?!
> Just reasoning this is why the GW did what he did at first....must've believed him to rip it up (1st ticket), but wrote the other (2nd ticket) just in case he was wrong to do so?!


What about innocent until proven guilty?

Was there anything related to deer hunting on him?

Maybe the gun, but alot of folks use one rifle for everything and one shotgun for everything. That might be debatable. 


I think the ranger either overstepped himself or there is something missing from the story we dont know about. No accusations made to the poster, but something smells fishy about it, maybe the friend is not giving all the details, maybe the ranger is just pushing his way.


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## Chuck Martin

I'm in the same boat but saving all my pennies, keep in touch.


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## Rich Kaminski

I had a game warden walk up on me in my treestand 10 years back while hunting in Warren County. He asked me to come down and he checked my gun (a 300 Win Mag which only holds 4 shells).
Then he asked to see my hunting license, which I showed him. Then he checked my area for bait (I don't bait) and there was none.
This guy comes back the next day and attempts to do the same thing again. So I said to him, "Do you always recheck the same clubs two days in a row" (just trying to find out his motivation) and he gets real ****y.
So I ask him "Why does a duck fly as it should". With this he scratches his head, so I scratch my butt.
And he says - "That doesn't make any sense". So I replied - "You stopped making sense, so I thought I would as well".
With this he starts to walk away repeating what I had said. So I called him back, shook his hand (haha) and said have a nice day. I never did see him again and I hunted that club for 10 years.


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## Public Land Prowler

Rediculous!There is no illegal rifle for coyotes!!!!!!



> PROTECTED SPECIES: It is unlawful to take
> nongame wildlife except fiddler crabs, coyotes,
> armadillos, groundhogs, beavers, starlings,
> English sparrows, pigeons, and venomous
> snakes.



COYOTES ARE NOT PROTECTED!!!!




> NONGAME FIREARMS: For unprotected
> species only–any firearm.


Unless he was on a WMA during small game season he will be out of court in time for dinner.


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## proside

*shoot fast no game warden is here*

here  he is now shoot him


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## MIG

Since this thread has been resurrected...

The incident was never about hunting coyotes - it was about hunting DEER with a modern firearm during PW season.  The correct charge IS "Hunting With Illegal Weapon".  From what I understand there were a couple of "teeny weenie" pieces of info omitted from the story - imagine that.  

Now, reckon why the fine was paid?


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## Medicine Man

*Ticket Was Paid*

So what was left out? And how do you know this? Just wondering what happened..


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## Medicine Man

I really thought this would go to the Supreme court for a final decision.. So turns out he was DEER hunting..  Now I feel bad.. I was pulling for the fellow, good thing I'm not a GW he had me fooled. You guy's can smell a rat from a mile away..


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## GA DAWG

I wonder if he had orange on?? MIG who do you work for?


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## OkieHunter

Sure glad I live in Oklahoma and don't have to put up with this kinda **. We can Yote hunt with any kind of rifle but have to use a shotgun at night and let the GW know where we are hunting.


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## Medicine Man

*Ticket Paid*

Now, reckon why the fine was paid?
b/c he was guilty as sin..


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## JerkBait

Hey MIG explain how your info is accurate. I know the guy who this thread is about very well and i havent heard anything else about it. (cause i forgot about it) but how do you know what happened? (not challenging you just wanna know where the facts are comin from)

And for the record, the guy who was given a ticket is a very good fella. He'd do anything for ya also. Lets not start bashin someone who isnt here to defend himself. Only girls and kids talk about people behind their back.


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## MIG

JerkBait said:


> Hey MIG explain how your info is accurate. I know the guy who this thread is about very well and i havent heard anything else about it. (cause i forgot about it) but how do you know what happened? (not challenging you just wanna know where the facts are comin from)
> 
> And for the record, the guy who was given a ticket is a very good fella. He'd do anything for ya also. Lets not start bashin someone who isnt here to defend himself. Only girls and kids talk about people behind their back.



Jerkbait, I'm not talking about anyone behind their back.  My post was NOT intended to be a swipe at the fella at all - he may well be one of the finest folks around.      

What my post IS about is that people "start bashin someone who isn't here to defend himself", as you so put it, based upon one sided, often inaccurate, information.  In this instance, the GW got beat up pretty good because of the way the story was told - the GW cannot respond in order to "defend himself".  By ommitting certain points in the telling of the tale, the entire context of the situation changed.  There's two sides to every story...unfortunately, people tend to forget that.  From what I know of the incident, the GW made the right call.  And if he didn't, why was the fine paid (that's public record)?


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## K80

What was the other side of the story?


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## JerkBait

Youre right the GW cannot defend himself. Neither can my friend. 

Guess they should kill this thread then....


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## Medicine Man

Guilty and got caught. I like to think of myself as a good person also. Heck the GW still wrote me a ticket (for the record I wasn't completely truethful upfront either). But the GW was EXTREMELY nice to me and let me know he had me, I told him sorry and we BOTH left with a smile. Thanks Mr GW for up holding the law and even if we cross paths again (I hope not).


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## gatorhater

*Legally coyote hunt year round with dogs*

All you got to do in any "county" is get you some hounds, some shotguns with buck shot, and several friends. Line up around a block of woods. Heck it can even be down the side of the public roads and you do not have to wear flourescent orange even during deer season since your only "coyote hunting".  Turn the hounds in the block and run all the coyotes you want to.  Of course you are coyote hunting.


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## Randy

So the guy took my advise.  I personally want to thank him for not wasting my tax money and paying the fine.


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## JerkBait

Randy said:


> So the guy took my advise.  I personally want to thank him for not wasting my tax money and paying the fine.



Hey RANDY do you know him personally? he didnt take your advice over the next guys. Im pretty sure he hasnt even looked at this. But hey ill tell him that RANDY says thanks for not wasting his tax money. Im sure ill have a "your welcome RANDY" to bring back to you.


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## RUTMAGIC

What is the fine amount for using the wrong weapon on yotes? The reason  I ask is that the fine might be so low that it was just not worth the fight in court, doesn't mean he was guilty, he probably  just didn't want the hassle in hiring a lawyer etc.. And as far as I know yotes are non-game of which any firearm may be used. The game and non-game animals over lap often and GW I beleive can't distinguish the difference, ecspecailly the green horns. If you have the wrong equipment during your hunt for the game your hunting maybe then and only then will a ticket be warranted. Most likely the GW called a supervisor about it after the first ticket and returned to write another. But by policy of DNR he can not tear that ticket up, these things have serial numbers and have to be accountable for them. So I leave this with you, it maybe worth it at times to spend a little extra bread to hire a lawyer to train a Game Warden in what the law really states.


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## Randy

JerkBait said:


> Hey RANDY do you know him personally? he didnt take your advice over the next guys. Im pretty sure he hasnt even looked at this. But hey ill tell him that RANDY says thanks for not wasting his tax money. Im sure ill have a "your welcome RANDY" to bring back to you.



No I don't know him  Do you?  If so spill the beans.  He payed the fine right?  I assume he did it becaseu he was guilty?  If not, he should not have payed it.  So what's up?  Tells us the real story.


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## RUTMAGIC

I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box but I know better than to assume, you know what it makes you......? And me!
Have you ever sat through a entire state or superior court docket, listening to every case of every imaginable types of charges, judges more than the latter don't find guilt. Most judges require high degrees of proof from the state. This fellow doesn't have to make the GW prove it, the law and statutes require it. I tell you, the more I think about this incident, the more I truley believe this guy was treated with some foul practice. As a law enforcement officer I have to be convinced beyond a shadow of  doubt while still at the scene, that a crime has been commited before I take action, because my actions can cause people some very unpleasent results. I treat others as I would want them to treat me! These are my two cents worth.


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## JerkBait

Randy said:


> No I don't know him  Do you?  If so spill the beans.  He payed the fine right?  I assume he did it becaseu he was guilty?  If not, he should not have payed it.  So what's up?  Tells us the real story.




yea i know him personally. talk to him often but im not like, "HEY! tell me what happened with your incident with the law so that i can run and tell all the people on woodys what happened."


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## JerkBait

Let This Thread Die!


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## sodbusterman

Sounds like the GW in Putnam county has a power trip and if that is documented the higher powers sould take action on him. The earlier posts a guy said the GW there checked his license three times in 2 days and searched his camp. Seems like some of the GWs are just want-to-be FBI agents. I think to get a ticket for something you should have to have the evidence against you so he would have had to have had a deer down to get a ticket. I have looked through my scope at a doe many times in Buck only time just to look at it. What if a GW saw me doing that and assumed I was going to shoot it. You can't use feeling to enforce the law. You can show compasion though...we are the few hunters left we are not the enemy.


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## Dead Eye Eddy

JerkBait said:


> Let This Thread Die!



AMEN!  I wish the moderators would just lock it already.


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## gatorhater

*RUTMAGIC*

If you are a law enforcement officer you would definitely know that things are not always told the way they actually happened. Important things are left out.


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## crackerdave

buckbacks said:


> he was hunting during a primitive weapon season.
> you have got to realize you can only hunt with what is allowed during an open season.
> for animals with no closed season you still can only hunt with what is allowed during that season.
> I can understand pretty easy myself.



That pretty well sums it up!

For my two cents worth: I personally know several Conservation Rangers [a.k.a. game wardens] through my work at the Ga.Forestry Commission.Every one of them is a stand-up type that treats everyone the same - they would give their granny a ticket if she was breaking the law. There are,of course,some that are not as knowledgeable about the law,but I personally don't know them.An over-zealous rookie can be dangerous in any profession.


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## gititdone

*game wardens*

i can tell u about some game wardens.i hunt b,f grant alot. i have had my truck searched there many a time.for no reason at all.im 50 years old dont do drugs dont drink an hunt.but they searched anuway.what u gonna do.i dont think they should have the rite to invade your personal property without just cause.they do the same thing at cedar creek wma.we had a warden this year unlock a gate at one of our properties a private residence with a mail box an go in an ride all over the property.he had a hand full of master keys on a ring an one fit the lock this is wrong.should be illegal search of residence


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## Mechanicaldawg

gititdone said:


> i can tell u about some game wardens.i hunt b,f grant alot. i have had my truck searched there many a time.for no reason at all.im 50 years old dont do drugs dont drink an hunt.but they searched anuway.what u gonna do.i dont think they should have the rite to invade your personal property without just cause.they do the same thing at cedar creek wma.we had a warden this year unlock a gate at one of our properties a private residence with a mail box an go in an ride all over the property.he had a hand full of master keys on a ring an one fit the lock this is wrong.should be illegal search of residence



WOW!

I have hunted WMA's for years, exclusively for the past few, B. F. Grant & Cedar Creek regularly, and have never, not once, had my truck searched.

You must have a big ole "I'm Guilty" sign hanging over your head.


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## Randy

Jeff Young said:


> You must have a big ole "I'm Guilty" sign hanging over your head.



I think that would be "i r guildy".


----------



## crackerdave

Branchminnow said:


> You need to think about what you are saying here buddy.
> 
> 
> Everybody does not hunt deer. I hunted them last year and foever before that, with bow PW and Rifle. This year I have not went, yet. IMO Its not gotten cold enough for me to enjoy it.
> So with that being said, DEER do not rule the hunting in this state( contrary to poplar belief.)



AMEN - squirrels do!


----------



## larpyn

Randy said:


> I think that would be "i r guildy".



i see what you're sayin'


----------



## General Lee

Randy said:


> I think that would be "i r guildy".


Hello Pot,I'm Kettle...........


----------



## GA DAWG

Jeff Young said:


> WOW!
> 
> I have hunted WMA's for years, exclusively for the past few, B. F. Grant & Cedar Creek regularly, and have never, not once, had my truck searched.
> 
> You must have a big ole "I'm Guilty" sign hanging over your head.


I've had mine searched at both WMAs by the same warden. It probably want happen again!!!! It didnt bother me anyhow.I had nothing to hide.I've saw them ship em off to jail at BF at roadblocks on the wma.Had k9 units and all lol...


----------



## Thunderbeard

Well now, I see this tread has made its way back to the front line news. My friend did pay the fine. The fine was so cheap, that he would have lost more money trying to fight it. I would have fought the case had it been me, however its not so that's it. I still believe he told me the whole story and thats the one I relayed to you guys. I am sure there are several of people who have payed speeding tickets or moving violations where you felt you were not guilty. The price reduced and bame you paid it. I do wish he had fought it, however thats his decision. So that being said, let the tread DIE IN PEACE.  Oh yea, go VOLS


----------



## GA DAWG

Thunderbeard said:


> Oh yea, go VOLS


 Thats a good way to let the thread die


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## Medicine Man

Ok this is like "general Hosp." Someone needs to tell the trueth here boy's.. Was he deer hunting or not.. Momma is fixin to spank me for this and I did not do it. What the heck is the trueth.. Mr GW are you just out to get him, or Mr. we don't know who you are, where you really deer hunting, we do not give a crap just tell the true,th one of you.. PLEASE..


----------



## JerkBait

Hot Dog said:


> Ok this is like "general Hosp." Someone needs to tell the trueth here boy's.. Was he deer hunting or not.. Momma is fixin to spank me for this and I did not do it. What the heck is the trueth.. Mr GW are you just out to get him, or Mr. we don't know who you are, where you really deer hunting, we do not give a crap just tell the true,th one of you.. PLEASE..




the truth is he was coyote hunting not that it matters anymore.  NOWLET THIS THREAD DIE!


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## potsticker

Im wit u brother, iz be huntin bf grant and cedar creek since the late 70's. I hav been checked only twice, by harry luke riding wit biddlerback, their main concern wuz why i turkey hunted for 21 mornings, in a row and did i hav a job!


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## potsticker

potsticker said:


> Im wit u brother, iz be huntin bf grant and cedar creek since the late 70's. I hav been checked only twice, by harry luke riding wit biddlerback, their main concern wuz why i turkey hunted for 21 mornings, in a row and did i hav a job?


----------

