# For the experts



## chase870 (Oct 15, 2015)

I have had a muzzle loader for years a CVA .50cal hammer on the side etc. Not a expensive gun just the basic deal. I haven't shot it much in the past 10 years as I am  in Canada duck hunting during muzzle loader season.
So I load the gun up with 60 grains of FFF black powder and a saboted bullet. I go ahead and shoot it at my target, and noticed that a bunch of leaves seemed to be blown out of a near by tree that's down range 20 yards and slightly to the left, nice cloud of smoke etc. I check the target and didn't hit it, 57 yards away. So I go to reload the rifle, drop powder and start a sabot with a bullet in the barrel. I get the bullet about 6 inches in with the starter and go to use the ram rod which I cant find.
First question I wonder if the ram rod caused the leaves to be blown out of the tree as it went by or through it.
Second question how far and what possible direction will 60 grains of powder and a 50 cal sabot and bullet send a ram rod down range.
Third question what should I do with a rifle that has a powder charge and a sabot and bullet lodged about 6 inches in the barrel


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## NE GA Pappy (Oct 15, 2015)

go to Walmart and buy you another ramrod, seat the bullet and fire the gun. This time without the ramrod inserted into the barrel.  

I wouldn't even try to find that old ramrod. It is long gone or broken.  

Learned a lesson today, didn't we?


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## fishtail (Oct 16, 2015)

NE GA Pappy said:


> go to Walmart and buy you another ramrod, seat the bullet and fire the gun. This time without the ramrod inserted into the barrel.
> 
> I wouldn't even try to find that old ramrod. It is long gone or broken.
> 
> Learned a lesson today, didn't we?



AND
Get in the habit of packing the powder with the rod before inserting the bullet.


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## SASS249 (Oct 16, 2015)

Seen any number of ramrods sent downrange, you will be amazed at how far they go.  Rifle should have kicked like a mule. Actually saw one at a match one time that went straight downrange and scored a ten on the target, we were not really sure how to count that one.

Thing is that is almost certainly a slow twist barrel better suited for roundballs than saboted bullet.  You may get ok accuracy but I will bet the rifle does much better with roundballs.

When you get another ramrod, buy two.  I always keep a spare or two around and whenever I hunt have a spare in camp.  Not much more frustrating than trying to cut a tree limb down to size to use as a ramrod after breaking your only one at the start of a three day hunt.

I do not agree with the advice about packing the powder with the rod before inserting the bullet.  I have limited experience with sabots, but have shot many thousand roundballs with some of the best shooters in the country.  Never seen a really successful match shooter attempting to pack powder with a ramrod.  You are trying to have as consistent a loading process as possible and trying to pack the powder inserts a variable that really does not help you in my opinion.


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## Clifton Hicks (Oct 16, 2015)

1. Get yourself a new ramrod and have a laugh over what you've experienced. Odds are half our great grandpaws have done the same thing at one time. I am reminded of a Civil War memoir by a Confederate veteran  who found himself in the middle of a Yank attack with his ramrod jammed down the barrel as he was trying to load. Had no choice but to aim and shoot, spearing a U.S. soldier who was about to run up on him with a bayonet. "Stuff Happens."

2. You are already packing that powder down as far as it'll go when you ram your ball down on top of it... no sense in "pre-packing" it, in fact, I've never seen anybody do it nor heard it suggested (and here I thought I'd heard every hare brained trick in the book!).


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## fishtail (Oct 16, 2015)

SASS249 said:


> I do not agree with the advice about packing the powder with the rod before inserting the bullet.  I have limited experience with sabots, but have shot many thousand roundballs with some of the best shooters in the country.  Never seen a really successful match shooter attempting to pack powder with a ramrod.  You are trying to have as consistent a loading process as possible and trying to pack the powder inserts a variable that really does not help you in my opinion.





Clifton Hicks said:


> 2. You are already packing that powder down as far as it'll go when you ram your ball down on top of it... no sense in "pre-packing" it, in fact, I've never seen anybody do it nor heard it suggested (and here I thought I'd heard every hare brained trick in the book!).



I am surprised. 
This technique first came to my attention in the mid "80's, just before the advent of the hotshot nipple.

At that time there was always the constant complaint of a percussion side lock cap going off and then the boom of powder ignition.
The hang fire type situation perplexed many with these type of firearms. One fix was to drill out the nipple hole larger, it did work but it was dangerous and dirty. The thought was more fire to the powder chamber would straighten out the problem.
There were several not so complex problems at hand and the hotshot nipple slowed some of them too.
Another portion to improve ignition was to pour the powder down the barrel and tilt the nipple toward the ground and bump with your wrist on the opposing side of the barrel to insure some powder to trickle toward the nipple.
The final hopeful chance to insure better ignition was to drop (not pack) the ram rod down the barrel a couple of times to remove any possible air voids. This would also likely push some powder toward the nipple of the side lock.


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## fishtail (Oct 16, 2015)

As for those of you that have not shot sabots.
When you push the slug/sabot down, you will feel the sabot contact the powder.
Pushing further you will feel it to crush and compact the powder. This is not the case. It is simply forming the powder around the hollow base of the sabot.


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## Clifton Hicks (Oct 16, 2015)

Interesting. I have never shot sabot rounds (except out of a 120mm Rheinmetall!) and only owned one cap lock years ago. Never noticed too many hang fires unless something obvious was going on like rain or heavy fouling. I'd think that drilling out the touch hole and installing one of them fancy touch hole liners would solve most of these issues.


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## Muldoon (Nov 20, 2016)

I shoot only PRB in my .50 Rocklock and .54 Hawken. When loading powder (KIK 2F) I have the rifle as nearly vertical as possible and after powder is dropped I gently tap the stock a few raps to settle it. I cut the pillow ticking patch lubed with Canola oil at the muzzle and then seat the ball. The accuracy is consistent.



100yd by Sharps Man, on Flickr

The two shots at the top were when I was figuring out just how much of the front sight NOT to hold at 100 yards.

Good shooting to all you fellows!

"God has His agenda and we have our agenda. Guess which one is gonna get done first!"

FPM


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## stabow (Nov 20, 2016)

Lol


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## bpb (Nov 21, 2016)

fishtail said:


> I am surprised.
> This technique first came to my attention in the mid "80's, just before the advent of the hotshot nipple.
> 
> At that time there was always the constant complaint of a percussion side lock cap going off and then the boom of powder ignition.
> ...


Or cleaned out the paten breach,drum and fire channel that helps.


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