# 5 foot timber rattler



## chad3775 (Aug 19, 2005)

i killed this 5 foot timber rattler under my deer feeder on 8-16-05, has anyone heard of timber ratters getting this big in ga, i know dimond backs this size are common,   
see ya at the ga trappers convention, chad


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## Jim Ammons (Aug 19, 2005)

chad,

That's a baby compared to some I have seen and killed over the years in S West GA.


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## Nicodemus (Aug 19, 2005)

Chad, I got that ones twin with 12 rattles  Wednesday evenin`. That`s a nice sized canebrake. It`s gittin` purty hard to find diamondbacks anymore.


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## jay sullivent (Aug 19, 2005)

i'm no expert, but looks like a canebrake rattler to me.


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## HT2 (Aug 19, 2005)

*Chad........*

Do they get bigger???????

Oh yeah!!!!!!!!

We've killed 6 already this year in Hancock with the biggest being just about that size........


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## Lostoutlaw (Aug 19, 2005)

*5 Foot nice dead rattler*

Chad that is good fer you I like em Dead er in door nails


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## Jriley (Aug 19, 2005)

A canebrake rattler and a timber rattler are the same snake. That is a grown one, but I've seen bigger, especially around chicken houses.


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## jay sullivent (Aug 19, 2005)

Jriley said:
			
		

> A canebrake rattler and a timber rattler are the same snake. That is a grown one, but I've seen bigger, especially around chicken houses.




 being a different color and having different skin patterns doesn't make them a different snake? this has been argued before on this forum but i really don't know what the real answer is. where is the snakeman when you need him?


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## jay sullivent (Aug 19, 2005)

i think they are different snakes.


http://www.dgif.state.va.us/wildlife/species/display.asp?id=030013


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## Jriley (Aug 19, 2005)

I got this definition from a museum's website. "The generic name Crotalus is from the Latin word crotalum meaning "rattle". The species name horridus is Latin for "dreadful," pertaining to the venomous nature of this snake. People in the South sometimes call this snake the "velvet-tail" or "canebrake" rattler."

Which one is right? I've seen them called the same species in more than one publication.


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## Jriley (Aug 19, 2005)

The rattler in the picture is a dead ringer for the ones I've seen in North Georgia. I've heard them called timber rattlers up here. I'm not an expert either.


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## Jim Ammons (Aug 20, 2005)

http://museum.nhm.uga.edu/gawildlife/reptiles/squamata/serpentes/viperidae/chorridus.html


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## Snakeman (Aug 20, 2005)

The canebreak/timber rattler argument goes on, just like baiting/food plots/supplemental feeding and high-fence hunting.  Coloration is not sufficient to make a distinct species.  (Aren't black bears sometimes brown?)  I'm not sure what characteristics are required to determine separate species, but enough "experts" say that timbers and canebreaks are the same, so that's good enough for me.

UGA venomous snakes 

The Snakeman


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## jay sullivent (Aug 20, 2005)

Snakeman said:
			
		

> The canebreak/timber rattler argument goes on, just like baiting/food plots/supplemental feeding and high-fence hunting.  Coloration is not sufficient to make a distinct species.  (Aren't black bears sometimes brown?)  I'm not sure what characteristics are required to determine separate species, but enough "experts" say that timbers and canebreaks are the same, so that's good enough for me.
> 
> UGA venomous snakes
> 
> The Snakeman






 if you say it, i believe it.


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## jason308 (Aug 20, 2005)

I ran over one in Sumter NF last year (I thought it was a limb to begin with) and it didn't kill him, he had to have been close to 6 feet long if he was a foot and he was as big around as my forearm- I backed up to bet a better look and he had coiled up!  Glad I didn't walk up on him. That hide of the one you killed will look good tacked up on the wall!


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## DawgFan (Aug 20, 2005)

A canebrake and a timber are the same. Folks in south GA have usually called them canebrakes while us in north GA have usually called them timbers. Whatever you call him, that's a whopper. Around these parts a 4 footer is a big 'un. Snake boots fellas, snake boots! 
That's my 2 cents worth.


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## jay sullivent (Aug 20, 2005)

it seems strange that the snake has 2 different color variations and 2 different names, but it is only one species. i don't know of any other animal that you could say that about. i knew it has been argued before but i couldn't remember the outcome of the discussion.


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 20, 2005)

*Timber Rattler*

I am one of those who have never accepted (not that it matters) the theory that the Timber Rattler and Canebreak are the the same species.

I am not trained in the science of Herpetology, but all of my life I have had a keen interest in snakes and all things natural. I spent much of my early life hunting and fishing in the mountains of N. Ga and have lived here for the past 15 years.

During my time in N. Ga. I have encountered Timber Rattlers on numerous occasions. All of them have been observed to be at higher elevations. The higher you go, the more likely sightings will occur. I encountered one within a few feet of the peak of Brasstown Bald, the highest peak in Ga.. I have never seen one in the foothills nor anywhere near a stream or wetlands.

I have never seen a Timber Rattler with any variation of color. All are black or dark gray with yellow chevron markings on the back. The average size of the snake is somewhere in the range of 3 to three and one half feet long. I have never seen a four footer.

I spent 40 years of my life co-habiting with Canebreaks and Diamondbacks. In this time I couldn't help but observe a few things. I will enumerate.

The Canebreak is consistently a larger snake. Five footers are not uncommon. I almost stepped on one in the lower Oconee River swamp that measured five and one half feet. My point is that the Camebreak is consistently larger than his counterpart, the Timber Rattler..

I have never encountered a Canebreak on what I would call a genuine upland. They are consistently found in the lowlands, hammocks, and river floodplains. Note that they are found on bottomland sites whereas the Timber Rattler is a creature of upper elevations.

The Timber Rattler even on his home range is an uncommon snake. The Canebreak on his range is not all uncommon at all.

Why is there such a clean break between the two snakes. I have never seen the pink phase of the snake in N. Ga., and have never seen the dark phase in Middle or South Ga. There is a clean break between the two. Why would there not be a section of the Piedmont Region where there was a mixing of the two colors. If color is such a casual occurrance why would there not be variance of the colors. If colors make no difference in classifying snakes, why not just declare that the Eastern Diamondback is nothing more than a Timber Rattler. If size makes no difference and if color makes no difference, and if range makes no difference, then it follows that the Diamondback is in reality a Timber Rattler. That might be a hard sell.

The Western USA has three or four different species of Rattlesnake. One of these is the Western Diamondback. He appears to be identical to our Eastern Rattlesnake except for the fact that their range is far separate. I hold to the position that the range of the Timber and the range of the Canebreak is likewise separate and unequal.

I hold to the position that this snake, or the two snakes (whichever you prefer) should be studied further. There are significant differences in the two snakes.

My comments are based on observations and not "opinion". I confess that from time to time I do hold and express opinions. This is not one of them.

Vernon


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## jay sullivent (Aug 20, 2005)

Vernon Holt said:
			
		

> I am one of those who have never accepted (not that it matters) the theory that the Timber Rattler and Canebreak are the the same species.
> 
> I am not trained in the science of Herpetology, but all of my life I have had a keen interest in snakes and all things natural.  I spent much of my early life hunting and fishing in the mountains of N. Ga and have lived here for the past 15 years.
> 
> ...






very interesting. it seems they would be 2 different species. at the least, one be a subspecies of the other.


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## shaggybill (Aug 20, 2005)

As an avid herpetologist, the sight of a dead rattler, especially one as nice as the one in the OP's pictures, makes me sad.   
However, I will get over it. Someday. (but not today)

I am with Vernon completely on this one. Not only are timbers and canebrakes colored differently, but the type of habitat they use is completely different. Timbers are northern snakes who inhabit mountainous, rocky areas. Canebrakes are southern snakes who live in lowlands, cane thickets, etc. It has also been proven that the type of venom in canebrakes is usually more neurotoxic, as opposed to the mainly hemotoxic properties of the timber rattler. There are other significant differences that I cant think of at the moment, but if I think of them later, I'll post them

Canebrake = rebel snake
Timber = yankee snake.

 

Leave them canes alone!!!!


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## DawgFan (Aug 21, 2005)

The canebrake rattler was formally classified as (crotalus horridus atricaudatus), a seperate species from the timber rattler (crotalus horridus) but scientists have recently disproven this. Now they are considered just another color phase of the timber. They do vary greatly in overall coloration depending on the region. This is from research, I learned something.


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## chad3775 (Aug 21, 2005)

it's the same snake just a few different names!!!!! people
talk is cheap that's why i post pics,


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## Nicodemus (Aug 21, 2005)

I don`t kill poison snakes unless they`re in the yard or I need the skins for a project. I feel like they have a place in nature just like everything else. Besides, they keep you alert.


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## shaggybill (Aug 21, 2005)

Amen, nicodemus. Preach it!

Dawgfan, I think whether or not they are the same species depends on which scientist you ask. Some will tell you they are, some say they arent. I personlly hope one day they will be separated.


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## DawgFan (Aug 21, 2005)

So Shag, we can't have the same species of snake inhabiting mountians of north GA and NC and also living in the lowlands of south GA and northern FL? They are more abundant and grow larger in the southern region because of the climate. They hibernate in the winter in the northern region thereby growing less of the year and reproducing less often. Please enlighten me on this rattlesnake having a neurotoxin venom. I would surely be interested in this info.


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## shaggybill (Aug 21, 2005)

DawgFan said:
			
		

> So Shag, we can't have the same species of snake inhabiting mountians of north GA and NC and also living in the lowlands of south GA and northern FL? QUOTE]
> 
> Im not saying they arent the same, I just think they oughta be separated. I believe there are enough behavioral differences to justify this.
> 
> ...


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## chad3775 (Aug 22, 2005)

*this ani't no peta group message board*

this ain't no peta group message board....if i see a  rattlesnake by my tree stand, i will kill it. no matter what is takes, besides you can't kill em all..it's not an endanger species....if you don't like the fact that i killed a rattle snake then KEEP IT TO YOUSELF...AND IF YOU KILLED A BIGGER SNAKE...FINE....THIS IS NOT A CONTEST TO SEE WHO CAN   kill the biggest....at least post a pic.....for the others thanks for the great websites!!!!!!


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 22, 2005)

DawgFan said:
			
		

> "*They are more abundant and grow larger in the southern region because of the climate." *
> 
> DawgFan:  Would you please enlighten those of us who are unitiated as to why Whitetails in the cold climes of this country grow so much larger than their kindred in the South.  Seems to run counter to your quotation above.


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## coon dawg (Aug 22, 2005)

*..........*



			
				jay sullivent said:
			
		

> being a different color and having different skin patterns doesn't make them a different snake? this has been argued before on this forum but i really don't know what the real answer is. where is the snakeman when you need him?


they are the same species..........canebrake has a darker rust colored line down the center of the back most of the time.............fox squirrels are a bunch of different colors, but they are all fox squirrels.


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 22, 2005)

*Timber Rattler*

It is interesting to note that the Key Deer of the Florida Keys is merely a miniature version of the Eastern Whitetail Deer.  It is of further interest to note that Taxonomist have elected to declare them a sub-species of the Whitetail Deer.  Note that the difference in the two deer are the size and where the are found.

This seems to support the concept of declaring the Canebreak a Sub-species of the Timber.

DogFan should draw the assignment of finding and collecting a Canebreak on a cold December day in South Georgia.  He would need a backhoe to do so, since they would have fattened themselves and crawled into an unoccupied den of some critter (beaver, otter, skunk, gopher).  They do take a dirt nap as do their cousins the Timber Rattler.

Vernon


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 22, 2005)

But coon dawg, Fox Squirrels are all the same size and they occupy the same range.  The colors are mixed in the same patch of woods.  

The two snake being discussed never mix their colors in any one locale.  The dark keeps to the north.  The pink coloration to the lowlands of the south.  If they displayed coloration variations on the same range as do Fox Squirrels, then your point would be valid.

Interesting discussion.

Vernon


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## coon dawg (Aug 22, 2005)

*..........*



			
				Vernon Holt said:
			
		

> But coon dawg, Fox Squirrels are all the same size and they occupy the same range.  The colors are mixed in the same patch of woods.
> 
> The two snake being discussed never mix their colors in any one locale.  The dark keeps to the north.  The pink coloration to the lowlands of the south.  If they displayed coloration variations on the same range as do Fox Squirrels, then your point would be valid.
> 
> ...


tis true, Mr. Holt.....good point!  .............ps--did you get your buddies address I sent you a few months back....from Swainsboro??


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 22, 2005)

*For coon dawg*

Ten four, I did receive the information from you concerning Prof Kellum.  Apparently I failed to acknowledge having done so.  My apology.

Thought of you in recent days.  Had five rows of late corn (Silver Queen).  It was doing well until the Raccoons found it.  My Son set a live trap and proceeded to catch 10 coons, 7 possums, and one Beaver.  You could easily guess who got the corn.  We spread coons, possum and beaver from here to Calhoun.

Vernon


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## red tail (Aug 22, 2005)

Wellto get back to the origen, j/k 

That is a beutiful snake. You should save the skin!


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## Jriley (Aug 22, 2005)

I didn't mean to open up such a can of worms! It is a nice snake, and I am glad to see it dead. I would be proud to have killed it too. It's amazing what one little innocent comment can stir up on here.


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## Paymaster (Aug 22, 2005)

Don't sweat it Chad. I killed one last week and posted a pic in the Outdoor Pic forum and the snake huggers jumped me too.


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## raghorn (Aug 23, 2005)

Paymaster said:
			
		

> Don't sweat it Chad. I killed one last week and posted a pic in the Outdoor Pic forum and the snake huggers jumped me too.


They can jump all they want, any venomous snake I see is soon to be a dead one. I can do without them around me.


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## coon dawg (Aug 23, 2005)

*..........*



			
				Vernon Holt said:
			
		

> Ten four, I did receive the information from you concerning Prof Kellum.  Apparently I failed to acknowledge having done so.  My apology.
> 
> Thought of you in recent days.  Had five rows of late corn (Silver Queen).  It was doing well until the Raccoons found it.  My Son set a live trap and proceeded to catch 10 coons, 7 possums, and one Beaver.  You could easily guess who got the corn.  We spread coons, possum and beaver from here to Calhoun.
> 
> Vernon


lol.........that's a bunch of coons, Mr. Vernon!!............if the invite is still open, I'll come up and remove some in December!!


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## Vernon Holt (Aug 23, 2005)

Still open, or already open.  Just stay in touch.


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## coon dawg (Aug 23, 2005)

*I will......thanks, Mr. Holt...*


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## Guy (Aug 23, 2005)

I love to see all types of rattlers with beautiful color.  Last year I saw a beautiful 5'6" Canebrake with 12 rattles.  It even had a few spots of red on him.
...........After I shot him with my .38!    

If I can see a rattler, it's dead.  I look at them like hogs except I won't eat 'em.


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## coon dawg (Aug 23, 2005)

*........*



			
				Guy said:
			
		

> I love to see all types of rattlers with beautiful color.  Last year I saw a beautiful 5'6" Canebrake with 12 rattles.  It even had a few spots of red on him.
> ...........After I shot him with my .38!
> 
> If I can see a rattler, it's dead.  I look at them like hogs except I won't eat 'em.


you're missin some delicious food, bro............pearly white meat, wonderful battered and deep fried!!!


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## Guy (Aug 23, 2005)

I have had Diamondback fried.  It was great!  These Timbers and Canes taste the same??

If so I will try it!


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## coon dawg (Aug 23, 2005)

*yup.........*



			
				Guy said:
			
		

> I have had Diamondback fried.  It was great!  These Timbers and Canes taste the same??
> 
> If so I will try it!


tastes the same....don't try Cottonmouths..they are terrible..........


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## Guy (Aug 23, 2005)

I wouldn't think of trying to eat a cottonmouth.  They stink! 

The next time I see a rattler I have to remember to shoot it in the head and try that meat!


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## chad3775 (Aug 26, 2005)

red tail said:
			
		

> Wellto get back to the origen, j/k
> 
> That is a beutiful snake. You should save the skin!



I did!!!!


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## chad3775 (Aug 26, 2005)

Paymaster said:
			
		

> Don't sweat it Chad. I killed one last week and posted a pic in the Outdoor Pic forum and the snake huggers jumped me too.


   -------thanks chad


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## Hunter-Steve (Aug 28, 2005)

*Must be that time of year*

I was riding around my food plots today and ran over this snake. Had 8 buttons on it tail...  This is the first snake I've seen on this property in the 8 years I've been hunting there.
(That's my son in the picture with the snake!)


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## Hawg (Aug 28, 2005)

Hold it by the tail.


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## Nicodemus (Aug 28, 2005)

If that snake has any reflex left in em he can twist around and get a fang in that thumb or finger.


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## gadeerwoman (Aug 29, 2005)

Good rattlesnakes = dead rattlesnakes! Hey Chad I had a young lady herpitologist jump all over me at a wild game dinner a few months ago because I said something about killing a rattler. Guess it was a good thing fried rattlesnake wasn't on the menu that night ain't it CoonDawg? You want live rattlesnakes in your yard or around your deer stand folks, more power to you. But I'm with Chad. I see him and he's gonna be the good snake! I've lost too many pets to rattlers, the latest being a little jack russell terrier a couple weeks ago. Rattlesnakes have their place in the world...on CoonDawg's plate right along side the biscuits and gravy.


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## mikel (Aug 29, 2005)

congrats chad,
fine job.


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## chad3775 (Aug 29, 2005)

gadeerwoman said:
			
		

> Good rattlesnakes = dead rattlesnakes! Hey Chad I had a young lady herpitologist jump all over me at a wild game dinner a few months ago because I said something about killing a rattler. Guess it was a good thing fried rattlesnake wasn't on the menu that night ain't it CoonDawg? You want live rattlesnakes in your yard or around your deer stand folks, more power to you. But I'm with Chad. I see him and he's gonna be the good snake! I've lost too many pets to rattlers, the latest being a little jack russell terrier a couple weeks ago. Rattlesnakes have their place in the world...on CoonDawg's plate right along side the biscuits and gravy.


    good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bubba_1122 (Aug 29, 2005)

Was out working my lab yesterday - ran across a nice sized mocassin at the edge of the pond. 

I didn't think twice about killing that snake. Figured if was out there working my lab this week, and she got bit by that snake, I'd a sure been sorry. 

By the way, the .38 special CCI shotshells sure work good.


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## Paymaster (Aug 31, 2005)




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## Horatio (Sep 5, 2005)

Yes they do get that big.  We have alot of them here in Monticello due to alot of chickenhouses.  And yes "Canebreak" is just another name for the "Timber Rattler".  Supposedly the venom from the timber rattler is a pretty nasty mixture that attacks both muscles and the nervous system.  The wester-pacific rattler in California has a similar venom.  But the one you have is a good rattlesnake because it is dead.


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## dbodkin (Sep 5, 2005)

The only "Rattler" I want to be around...

Old Rattler was a good old dog 
blind as he could be 
but every night at suppertime 
I believe that dog could see. 

Here Rattler, here. 
Here Rattler, here. 
Call old Rattler from the barn, 
here Rattler, here. 

Old Rattler treed the other night 
I thought he'd treed a coon 
when I come to find out 
he was baying at the moon. 

Grandma had a yeller hen 
we set her as you know. 
We set her on three buzzard eggs 
and hatched out one old crow. 

Once I had a ***** cow, 
***** when he was born. 
Took a jaybird forty years 
to fly from horn to horn. 

Old Rattler was a good old dog 
even though he was blind. 
He wouldn't hurt one single thing 
cause he was very fine. 

One night I saw a big fat coon 
climb up in a tree. 
I called Old Rattler right away 
to get him down for me. 

But Rattler wouldn't do it 
cause he liked that coon. 
I saw them walking paw in paw 
by the light of the moon


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