# Found a kentucky rifle kit at my dad's (more pics)



## telsonman

Well, my dad found this kentucky percussion rifle kit in his basement. He says he bought it a long time ago, and just never put it together. I'm going to piece it together somehow, polish the brass, and finish the wood with walnut stain. It doesn't have a booklet or a barrel rod.






I know zero about muzzle loading. Its .45 caliber, and I'm pretty sure its patched balls if I remember right. Can anyone help me out on what all I need to shoot this thing? I'm not looking to be accurate, I just think it would be fun to shoot. I was looking at stuff at BPS today, but had no clue what I was looking for or what I needed.


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## Nicodemus

I`m willin` to bet it will be accurate. Get you some FFFg DuPont Goex black powder, some 10,000sth cotton` patchin` cloth, .440 round lead balls, and some #11 caps. You`ll have a nice squirrel and deer rifle.


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## telsonman

how do I know how much powder to use? I'm lost on this stuff


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## telsonman

Also, anyone know where I can get a booklet on how to put this together so I don't have to wing it.


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## Nicodemus

It should have a manufacture name on the box. They should be able to send you blueprints, and a loadin` manual. 

The old method of loadin` was whatever the caliber of the rifle, that was how many grains of powder was loaded in the barrel. That is always a good startin` point.


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## 7Mag Hunter

Cool find !!!!
I suggest you find someone to do a hot blue on the barrel....
I put a Hawken kit together 20 yrs ago, and had a gunsmith
do the barrel and it still looks shiny and deep blue today....
Really adds alot to the finished gun....
Show pics as you progress toward finished product !!!


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## telsonman

Yeah, I was looking to find someone to blue it. The barrel is still in the white.

Nicodemus, the manufacture is Ultra-Hi Products, but I can't find anything on the internet. If you want to help out, the model is 7072k.


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## Nicodemus

telsonman said:


> Yeah, I was looking to find someone to blue it. The barrel is still in the white.
> 
> Nicodemus, the manufacture is Ultra-Hi Products, but I can't find anything on the internet. If you want to help out, the model is 7072k.



Let me do some checkin` for you. Give me a day or two. Darkhorse, who is a member here also, might know about this rifle. He has forgot more about these rifles than I will ever know.


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## Bernard goldsmith

The K on the serial no, means kit. I'll go with nic, on the load he talked about. Try fullers gun shop in Woodberry Ga.Bullseye bluing in columbus Ga.


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## telsonman

I live in Jackson county, so I'm hoping to find something local. 

I have my dad looking for a manual and the ramrod, so I hope that all works out.


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## kvistads

Telsonman:
You don't want to blue that thing.  Not saying that your kit is an accurate reproduction of what was made back then but they were most certainly not blued.  You need to brown it instead.  Browning a barrel and furniture is a rusting process usually done with a solution like TRU-BROWN, browning reagent by Wahkon Bay.  I've done it many times and is the most accurate representation of what it would have looked like back in the early to mid 1800s.

You would be doing yourself a favor if you would find yourself a local muzzle loading club.  There are several in the State of GA and most everyone who belongs to a club is eager to help.  You will love shooting your new gun!  They are a lot of fun.  Good luck.

BTW, Do a search on the NMLRA - National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association.  You will probably find a list of clubs somewhere on the site.


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## killitgrillit

Go to track on the wolf or dixie gunworks and look for laurel mountain forge browning agent and use that to finish the metal, it would be a sin to blue anything on that gun, then look into customizing the stock, (brass inlay, studs, inlays ETC) Don't try to make it look like the pic on the box. research some old muzzleloaders and dress that one up and make it a one of a kind, not one like everyone else has.
I think Nic and most would agree.


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## Nicodemus

I`m in full agreement on the browned barrel!


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## tv_racin_fan

I concur on the browning. 

As Nic said 45 grains is a good startin point. Work down for just plinkin and up for a deer hunting load but I suggest not to exceed double the caliber or 90 grains. The plinkin load will work fine for squirrel and rabbit tho. 45 caliber is good for deer but you need to be aware that round ball does not carry it's energy very well. "Rule of thumb" is that a round ball will have energy at 100 yards about equal to caliber% of muzzle or in your case 45% of muzzle energy. Oh and don't worry so much about working up a load until you shoot quite a few shots, might well be that the rifling is a bit sharp and she wont settle down for 50 or more shots. You need to find those patches after you shoot so you can learn to read them.

I prefer real black powder myself BUT the subs will run decently in a cap lock rifle. I suggest you use crisco as the patch lube and buy non lubed patches. The prelubed ones tend to go bad after some time and you never know how long they been around before you got em.

Diixie Gun Works will have anything you can't find local.

http://www.dixiegun.com/

You need a powder measure, they work on volume and the subs are manufactured to work with them. You're gonna want a range rod as well, nothing more than a longer ram rod with a big knob on the end or a T handle and with a jag or threaded fitting on the other end. 

Best thing would be for you to find someone in your area who shoots black powder. I hadda learn what I know on my own or from reading.


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## telsonman

Well, I decided I am going to brown the barrel. Seems it will take a while to finish this thing, so I figure I got the time. 
I starting finishing the stock today. I went with a dark walnut. It looks pretty good. Tomorrow I'm going to start the oil/steel wool cycle. Probably do 3 or 4 coats. 

I sent an email to "traditions" because they have a kit similar to this. I still can't find an assembly manual for this kit, so hopefully they can send me something to get me started. There are so many small parts, and I have no clue where they go. Also, I asked if I could buy a ramrod for it too, since this one is AWOL.


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## kvistads

You can leave it simple if you like and it should still look good.  Just take your time and do it right.  The Laurel Mountain Forge products as previously stated is an authentic way to finish it.  Use Aquafortis reagant by LMF to stain the stock.

Below is my custom "Southern Mountain" flintlock longrifle in .45.  It has a pretty decent curly maple stock with browned steel furniture and barrel.  If it looks like it's been used, it has.  I've won a good many shooting matches with it in my time.  No frills or thrills on this gun - just plain and simple and still looks beautiful.  It'll shoot better than I can hold it too.  I also made the bone handled knife and sheath in the background.  Another satisfied customer.


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## SASS249

First: Belay the stock finishing.  You have a ways to go before staining and oiling.  You need to get the rifle assembled BEFORE you start finishing the stock.  You could go ahead with browning the barrel I guess, but I personally would not.

The kit you have looks like one produced in the late 70's early 80's.  There were a bunch of importers who marketed kits like that under a variety of names.  You might be able to find something that identifies the actual manufacturer  and get an instruction manual but I doubt it.
At any rate if I remember correctly the manuals usually basically said put all the pieces together.

All is far from lost however.  If you are even medium handy you can probably figure this out.  Dixie gunworks used to sell a diagram of a kentucky showing all the parts and how they fit.  It would be worth checking to see if they still do.

You first need to fit the barrel, lock, triggers buttplate and all the furniture to the wood ie completely assemble the rifle.  Once you have all the pieces assembled and the rifle working, then you can sand and finish the wood.

I am not really near you but if you want to PM me I would be happy to sit down with you and the kit and help you at least get underway.


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## telsonman

Well, I guess I'm going to piece it together and see if it all fits right. The only thing I can't fathom is the front sight. Its in 2 pieces. There is the blade, then the dovetail. I don't see how they go together. The blade has a nipple on the bottom of it, but the dovetail is just flat.


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## tv_racin_fan

A ram rod is not hard to find. Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works can supply that. That flat rectagnal slice of brass is a toe piece or protector. The sight I can't say as I would have to see it but you could find something at Dixie or Track I am sure.


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## telsonman

Ok, well here are the pieces I have left over. I'm pretty sure the 2 brass pieces are for the ramrod, and the 2 small pins hold them to it. The long pin I have no clue what it is for, and here is also the dovetail thing and front sight blade. Its weird why the blade has that nipple on it because the barrel has the dovetail cutout just like for the rear sight.


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## olcowman

Do they still sale these kits? I ain't seen one years but when they come out i sure remember. Everybody I knew had one about half finished layed up in their house somewhere... for years.


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## tv_racin_fan

OK. The long pin looks like it would pin the stock to the barrel. There should be a staple or some other fitting on the underside of the barrel and holes in the stock that correspond. Might be missing a pin or two in fact...

The sight is in pieces because they used the pieces for different firearms, you would drill a hole in the dovetail thing and solder or braze it together. I'd do without those and get something from Track of the Wolf.

Maybe not this particular one but you should get the idea.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...Id=14&subId=167&styleId=762&partNum=FS-G-77-S

Take a look at the different views on this rifle and you can get the idea on that pin. This rifle has wedges because the barrel is intended to come off the stock for cleaning (my preferred method).

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...eId=297&partNum=KIT-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-16-FLINT

Yes those other brass pieces are for the ram rod. You could use them or buy something else. I would just use them, be sure to pin them because if you don't a tight patch might cause the end to pop off the rod and that aint no fun... I would also buy a spare rod either of solid brass or wood that is longer than the bore and some fittings to make a range rod and either use a T handle that screws on or some sort of big wooden drawer handle or ball.

Not tryin to scare you or anything BUT if you rush loading there is the off chance the powder will go off due to embers in the bore while you are ramming the ball home and the last thing anyone wants is a ram rod thru the hand or worse. The T handle or Ball/drawer pull will be to large to go thru your hand so the force will push the hand out of the way instead of the rod thru the hand. Tons of ways to avoid it but the best one for me is just to go slow on the range and swab the bore when needed ( you will need it if you shoot more than a couple shots at a time). EVERYTIME you shoot you must clean the rifle that same day.

You seem like a reasonably intelligent man. IF you go SLOW and measure thrice before cutting and get everything fitted as YOU want it then work on the finish you ought to have a nice enough rifle for shooting. It wont ever be a great rifle because the parts wont allow that tho it might shoot like a great rifle if you do your part on the line.

Just for the record there is no reason that that rifle shooting the proper ball n patch can't be as accurate as any rifle ever made at 50 yards or so. IF you do your part consistently.

I would recommend you don't even bother with the pre lubed patches. Lube your own with crisco or olive oil. The pre lubed ones have a nasty habit of going bad over time. I also would not worry about adjusting that front sight until I had shot about 100 ball or more.

IF you are not sure then shoot me a PM. I am willing to come to you to show you what you don't understand and anything I don't know we can find it online I am pretty sure. I want many many many more people interested in the primitive rifles and particularly of the flintlock style.


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## kvistads

tv racin fan has given you some good advice.  Track would be the source I'd use for those parts like the front sight.  IMHO, you wouldn't want to use that brass blade anyway - reflects too much sunlight.  Only thing to be sure of is to buy a sight with a large enough dove-tail base so you can file it or the barrel to fit.  Using a triangular shaped file, you can either open up the dovetail on the barrel a little or clean-up the sight base.  Real simple.

I hate to mention this but the only part I'm confused about is the stock being in two (2) separate pieces.  I wonder why they done that (maybe for shipping) and how they are to be put together?  I'd like to hear from someone who has the answer.  Perhaps some of those pins are for pinning that stock together?


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## tv_racin_fan

The stock in two pieces was a price cutting thing, not as expensive to cut the stock out of smaller less valuable pieces of wood and it did cut down on shipping cost as well. Not having ever seen one in person you might be right on the pin for the stock but I think telson had the part figured out pretty well already, looking at the first photo provided I see a couple pieces that look to be the connectors.

Were Telson really really wanting to make that a finer firearm he could order a different lock and stock from Pecatonica River and give them the dimensions of the barrel and make a nicer rifle. Me I would build it pretty much as it came to him and it should be a decent shooter. After he plays with that rifle and learns most of the ends n outs of Black Powder shooting if he enjoys it he can move on and pass that rifle on to someone else or keep it to allow interested parties to shoot on range trips.

I bought my son a CVA Bobcat some years ago. I had a Traditions flintlock and he wanted to shoot black powder with me and for $65 the Bobcat was the choice for an entry rifle. I recently aquired a Lyman Great Plains rifle and traded the flintlock I had to my son for his Bobcat, it shoots fine for anyone wanting to try out a black powder rifle and I had been wanting to find another for less than $75.


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## Buck111

I finished a kit like that about 15 years ago. It had been in an attic for about 10 years, give or take. The tang screw seemed to be short for a working rifle. The trigger components were frugally manufactured. It looked great hanging on a wall, but I wouldn't fire it. If I remember correctly, it was made by Miroku for Sears.


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## telsonman

Well, as far as the staples go, there aren't any. However, there is a tang on the bottom of the barrel that fits though a slot on the stock. I think that one pin goes through there; the barrel holds to the stock by the rear tang, and the end cap at the muzzle end, so it only makes sense for that pin to hold it in the middle, but I'll have to drill to make it work.

I'm going to make this whole kit work, even though its kind of a pain. I'm going to get a front sight from the wolf, along with a wooden ramrod for looks, and a range ramrod. 

This kit lacks a lot. The 2 action screws that attach the plate on the left to the percussion assembly, well, one of them screws into the percussion plate, and the other has nowhere to go. The small screws that hold the ramrod guides are too short. Nothing fits right. I had the dremel out last night just trying to shim areas for the brass to fit.

As far as the stock being two pieces, from the picture, that middle brass piece holds them together. They slide into that brass piece. Its pretty crappy. Also, the forearm I had to cut about 1/16th off of it to make them fit right, as the forearm was too long. 

I'll post a picture tonight of the tang on the barrel to show you what I'm talking about.


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## telsonman

Ok, here are some pics of the action and how there is 2 holes in the left side plate, but only 1 in the action block.

Ok, here is the action. You can see the hole for the screw towards the front end. However, in front of the hammer there is no hole, nor is there one anywhere else.






Here are the screws coming towards the action in the stock. There were 2 pilot holes for these from the factory, so what gives?





And here is the action and plate with screws, and notice how only the front one is screwed in, and the other in the middle is just laying there.





So, I'm thinking I need to mark where to put the screw in the action, and get a machine shop to drill and thread a hole for the second action screw. What do yall think?


And here is the barrel showing the lower tang, and next to it the stock with the cutout for it. I'm thinking I'm supposed to drill through the stock and the tang, and then drive the pin through and file it down flush with the stock.


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## killitgrillit

you are correct on all the above


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## tv_racin_fan

Telson way back in the day the quality of some of those kits was horrid. You seem to have that kit figured out quite well, I would love to see the finished rifle. It makes me cringe to think that so many people would have gotten something like that and gotten soured on the black powder experience because of the quality of those kits. Lucky for me I suppose the first kits I bought weren't so bad.

Go slow as you can and measure thrice before drilling or cuttin. get er fitted up before tryin to do any finish work and do not expect the finish to be super because the quality of the parts is gonna hinder that. There are tons of tricks you can use to make her look much much more quality than she actually is. If you fit her carefully and get a reasonable finish she ought to shoot just fine.

I prefer true black powder BUT it has gotten harder to find. One of the subs will work but be aware the the subs tend to go bad from moisture in the air over time. I would run Pyrodex in it and try to find the magnum #11 caps and not feel bad at all (I run Pyrodex in that Bobcat) triple 7 has a couple issues and if you understand them it runs just fine as well. 

All the same I am dead serious, IF you need someone to talk to about it or someone to come look at something give me a shout. I would much rather trade you this Bobcat and have you enjoy it than have you get flustered with that thing and not give black powder a decent tryout. If I can't help you I believe I can put you on someone who can.


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## telsonman

Well, regardless of how much of a pain this is putting together, I'm sticking with it. There are some missing screws, but I can get around it. Sure, it won't be looking too pretty, but as long as it shoots, I'm good. I'm really looking forward to taking it to the range. 
I've been trying to find shops with BP stuff, but the choices are pretty limited. Basspro has a very limited selection. I just need powder, caps, balls, patches, and a range rod and cleaning stuff. 
I'm hoping to have this rifle finished by the end of the week if I can find that barrel browning stuff. I'm going to order a front sight tomorrow, and probably a ramrod. 
This will be fun.


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## SASS249

Seems like at least half of these kits I have seen do not have the lockplate screw holes in place.  Good news is the lockplate is generally very mild steel and it is no trick to drill and tap a hole.  If you even have a cheap set of taps you should be able to do it and not have to take it to a machine shop.
Seems you are making great progress.  Just in case you end up getting frustrated before you are through please give one of us the chance to help you get over the hard parts.  There is nothing magic about these guns, but there are a whole lot of little tricks that can really save you time and make the whole experience better.  Some of us have spent years  learning this stuff and are happy to pass it along.


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## telsonman

Good deal. I'll keep yall updated. Thanks for the help guys.


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## telsonman

well, I finished browning the barrel today. Looks a lot better than it would had I blued it. It didn't come out perfect by any means. There were a lot of imperfections in the metal that I couldn't get rid of, like stains in the metal that I'm sure are very old, and steel wool couldn't remove them. The browning came out pretty good, but there are a couple thin spots. You can't really notice them unless you're up close. I'm happy with it though.
I finished fitting the rifle. All thats left is the final stock sanding, then the staining and oiling. I'm still waiting on a front sight too.  I have to get some wood putty to fix parts of the stock around the butt plate. That was the most complicated thing to do, and some errors were made, but, I'll fill them in and sand them down. 

I'll be sure to post pics of the finished product


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## majg1234

If i remeber correctly ULTRA HI  barrels were made by MIROKU,the barrel is probably the best part of the kit,but just take your time and be cautious it'll probably shoot just great once you get it sited in.If you want better quality wood .locks etc that can come later now that you got her mostly done customizing it will be easy


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