# So you want to be a Charter Capatain? Worth Reading...



## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 22, 2009)

I just found this in my old computer... WOW. Well Written. The author is not disclosed... This will give everyone an idea of what it costs to run a 27-31 ft. boat and full time charter business. This is what I go through everyday... You have to really love the fishing lifestyle to be in this business. Personally, I do.. This is a good article that will hit home with full time guides 

So you want to be a Charter Captain? Think twice before you commit.

So you got your captains license and can catch some fish. Now what? Plans of making lots of money taking people fishing and great catches of fish and excitement linger in your mind like a cloud over your head. 

Unfortunately, this is only a small part of a HUGE picture. What it actually takes to be a guide or captain is something you will not learn in sea school or class room. It is not taught, either. You have it or you don’t. Catching alot of fish is great, but without the personality, excitement and reassurance, it’s just another day for your clients and not a great day. 

Catching of fish is the name of the game for the clients, but there is much more for the captain/guide to think about. Yes, you have to be good, I mean a very good fisherman, but the captain/owner of the business has many responsibilities that far out weigh the actual fishing end of the equation. Such as very high insurance rates, licenses, shaky fuel prices, maintenance, fishing equipment, advertising costs, safety, weather, cut throat competition, and a general “why isn’t my phone ringing more”.  All these things come before the boat leaves the dock. 
We all think to our selves after you hire a charter boat these guys are killing it I paid almost a  thousand dollars to go fishing for eight hours offshore or four hundred dollars for a inshore fishing trip. Wow! I can do this. I hate to break it to the masses but this is simply not the case.

 In all honesty, a full time charter service break even point for the year is about 100 charters. Just to break even with expenses. Now getting 100 charters a year is tough enough but being able to run them during a bad weather year and scheduling charters around that weather is yet another complication on it’s own. This leads us to the competition factor that is basically pricing us full time captains out of the market. You will get what you pay for when you book a fishing charter. Period. 

The guy who went and got his captains license and wants to offset the costs of running his boat so he can go fishing is stinging the industry. Everyone is entitled to do what ever they want in this great nation, but the key word here is business. The goal of a business is to make a living. In the case of charter fishing, the “part time” Captains’ emphasis goes more to covering cost of the day and having a little fun rather than making a profit. You can see it in their pricing structure. Why bother having a charter service taking all your clients out just to cover expenses? 

Your boat and or tackle is going to get abused and broken, you are going to wear out your equipment and not be compensated for it. Fuel is not the only cost of the day. All it takes is one expensive piece of equipment breaking down and the money you were relying on for the next five charters to be able to eat and pay your bills is already spent. 

Here is an average breakdown, and it will cover a few myths for us. Ok, now you’re a fulltime charter business run it yourself (with no mate) and you’re legal as you can get. The actual running costs will be very close as what follows. This is an 8-Hour trip scenario, which is all I used to run. The fuel prices have changed, of course, on this old graph, but you will get the idea, I can assure you. THIS IS WITH ONE BOAT.

Insurance $2000 a year
Licenses $300 a year
Advertising $5,000+ year
Engine & Boat depreciation $20 hour, 100trips x 8hrs= $16,000
Fuel for 100 trips 6,000 gallons @ $3.00 gal= $18,000
Ice $16 trip or $1600 in 100 trips
Tackle $1000+ year
Dockage $3000.00+ year
Maintenance $5000+ year
Bait $1,200.00+ year
Total expenses Rounded: $60,000.00
Total gross for 100 8-hour trips: $80,000 

That leaves a grand total paycheck of $20,000.00 for 100 trips and whole season gone by. You can see how a guide really needs to reach the 100 trip mark, no question and at the BARE minimum. One lost engine will eat up that small profit. Most folks cannot live off this amount of money per year with zero mechanical failures.

I am a fulltime guide of over 15 years, a
and now have a full time Captain running my main charter boat, but I still really enjoy it, and I strive to book 100+ charters each season and have done that many charters, and more in years past, but not in 2008. We are currently feeling the sting of higher insurance rates, shaky fuel prices causing everything to go up in price which robs the customer of available entertainment money, and causing people to price shop more for goods and services. As we all know, you have to take the poor weather years, cutthroat competition, and rising prices, in stride and just suck it up. If they are legitimate operation, their prices will be pretty close to one another. 

It is up to the consumer. It is your choice. The enticement of a cheap price will not last as long as the sting of an inferior product or service. 

This is an outlook that is agreed upon, and will be agreed upon by fishing guides long after you have read this article. Charter Fishing is fun, but the weekend warrior charter captains have taken over the market, especially during this weakened economy. The trickle effect reaches tourism very quickly, especially when it is travel oriented and most tourism is.
But for now, tight lines and good fishing!


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## capt stan (Jul 22, 2009)

Spot on!!...


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## Chris S. (Jul 22, 2009)

There's some truth to that....... BUT...........there are also countless Capt's. that run boats for other owners who absorb these responsibilities alongside the Capt.I have fished in Hawaii and in Fla. and three of the charters out of 6 have been on boats that were owned by someone other than the charter Capt.I have looked at getting my capts.license for several years now but the "doom and gloom" this person  decided to spill on everybody is not why I have'nt gone ahead as planned it is the fact that i myself have not set aside the other things to schedule and pay for seaschool.People are always going to move onto your turf and set up shop.Thats Business....thats why this is the "Land of Opportunity."

I have been in the retail industry all of my life and have seen the ups and downs and let me tell you who hurt small businesses the most:Not a weekend warrior.......but a company who has monopolized and has overtaken most small businesses without shame and sent all of the purchasing and manufacturing to China.

There is room for any individual IMO with the cajones to get their capts. license and if a Capt. is good enough he / she should be able to weather just about any storm.....especially when its a tsunami of weekend warriors.

As far as this guy's idea of expenses I can see where I would save some dough,especially in the advertising area since the charters I've been on were "Word of Mouth "referrals."Ice" ....Buy a commercial  Ice maker."Bait".... catch your own as often as possible.

 Good Luck with your 2009 season Richie.


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## jamrens (Jul 22, 2009)

Chris S. said:


> There's some truth to that....... BUT...........there are also countless Capt's. that run boats for other owners who absorb these responsibilities alongside the Capt.I have fished in Hawaii and in Fla. and three of the charters out of 6 have been on boats that were owned by someone other than the charter Capt.I have looked at getting my capts.license for several years now but the "doom and gloom" this person  decided to spill on everybody is not why I have'nt gone ahead as planned it is the fact that i myself have not set aside the other things to schedule and pay for seaschool.People are always going to move onto your turf and set up shop.Thats Business....thats why this is the "Land of Opportunity."
> 
> I have been in the retail industry all of my life and have seen the ups and downs and let me tell you who hurt small businesses the most:Not a weekend warrior.......but a company who has monopolized and has overtaken most small businesses without shame and sent all of the purchasing and manufacturing to China.
> 
> ...




Why does there always have to be someone come in a thread and have to argue. What does big business have to do with the charter industry? And i can assure you if you go down to south ga coast and ask anyone down there who to fish with they will say capt Richie, so i understand what your saying about if your good the word of mouth will be there. Its kinda like every industry there is always someone to undercut you. But whats wrong with this country is ppl think to much about themselves and not about there neighbor. Capt Richie was just putting the reality into the charter industry in light not try to upset anyone with a boat that whats to claim to be a capt.


Whit


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 22, 2009)

Stik,

I agree with you on several aspects..

I will say this... word of mouth doesn't come free starting up. Where will your charters come from if no one knows you? You have to pay to get it in the beginning. Also, I noticed there is no BOAT PAYMENT figured into those numbers. I have a few of those....LOL.. Also, THANK THE LORD ABOVE FOR SPONSORS!  But, I know that is a whole off the topic different subject.

Where we're at now, it's just a website and a phone number. That advertising is over, thank god. But in the beginning, I peronally paid major bucks to get to the top as quickly as possible.

IMO, that article has nothing to do with China, but I now what you're saying.

Like you said though, it's just business, and I have never been to a single place in GA, SC, NC or FL where everyone is on the same page with rates. Ever.... Just the way it is. Some have 4-stroke singles, some have EFI twins, some have diesels, so the prices will never be the same anyhow.

It doesn't bother me like it used to in the beginning days. Our 2008 was decent, but this year has been far better, oddly enough. I am thankful for that and thankful to be able to go fishing.


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## Chris S. (Jul 22, 2009)

jamrens said:


> Why does there always have to be someone come in a thread and have to argue. What does big business have to do with the charter industry? And i can assure you if you go down to south ga coast and ask anyone down there who to fish with they will say capt Richie, so i understand what your saying about if your good the word of mouth will be there. Its kinda like every industry there is always someone to undercut you. But whats wrong with this country is ppl think to much about themselves and not about there neighbor. Capt Richie was just putting the reality into the charter industry in light not try to upset anyone with a boat that whats to claim to be a capt.
> 
> 
> Whit



Thats purely your opinion and you are entitled to it,I however shared my opinion and for some reason you brought the argument.......small business has everything to do with business in general....the small business part was something of an analogy,comparison to when your line of work may take a hit from competition,sorry you could'nt figure that out.I'll stick to my guns as usual on this one buddy.
Tight lines to you.


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## jamrens (Jul 22, 2009)

With the business i am in i have seen small business die, I am a bread route man, I have seen walmart and ingles kill the independent grocers. But you know what, when you do a good job ppl will be loyal. Capt Richie just put an article up that he thought whould help ppl understand that in his business the weekend warrior  that dont have the commitment to do it full time is doing to there industry. I am sorry that you are a want to be weekend warrior. i dont think that Richie was trying to attack anyone just lay the fact out there.

WHit


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## jamrens (Jul 22, 2009)

And further more  have you ever met Richie. This man is super nice. When we was fishing there was a few more boats in the area fishing for shark Richie got on the horn and called them and told them that the boat was behind was holding sharks. How many capts do that? This man is giving trips away on this form so i really dont think he is worried about a weekend warrior.I think he posted that to show that it not all fun and games.

WHit


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## Chris S. (Jul 22, 2009)

Capt. Richie Lott said:


> Stik,
> 
> I agree with you on several aspects... However, word of mouth doesn't come starting up. You have to pay to get it in the beginning. Also, I noticed there is no BOAT PAYMENT figured into those numbers. I have a few of those....LOL..
> 
> ...



,and I wish you the best with your endeavors as a boat Capt.I hate the situation you guy's are dealing with over the snapper/grouper laws(I signed the petition too) but all i can do is encourage you to find other areas to shine in your field .

Most professional fisherman have a resilient nature and I'm sure you are one of them.From the number of supporters you have that is obvious. 

Again the China thing is an analogy of how a monopoly came in and destroyed small business with outsourcing of goods and so forth.


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 22, 2009)

*This is about doing it for the love of the sport...*

Stik-

100% with you on most of the China stuff.... Personally, We do have good support in most places, but it looks like you and Whitney aren't seeing eye to eye on this.

Let me be clear. I did not write this... (This isn't directed at you stik). I thought it would be a good read and get some people to see what kind of cash is spent doing it and it's more for the love of the sport... It's all about the love baby!


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## Colby (Jul 22, 2009)

You guy's have a tough... but fun Job!


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 22, 2009)

Yeah, Colby.. It is VERY FUN.... Thats what it's about is enjoying fishing and being around good people. I love it...


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## Capt. Scott Griffin (Jul 22, 2009)

I know of several Chinese Charter boat Capt's that have been importing customers from offshore and killing the local charter business.  Why didnt the local Charter Capts ever think about importing customers from offshore and selling trips for 1/2 the cost of the going rate. geez guys..cant we all just get along...


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## PaulD (Jul 22, 2009)

GREAT READ!

HUGE Start up cost. They also didn't figure in broken fishing gear (rods, reels) or for that matter the initial cost there in (it will add up to thousands $$$). Nor was it considered how nerve racking of a job it is when you are in a situation where you have to depend on the over all status on the economy to directly effect your pay check. What about the hours of cleaning and prep that go into it? 
It's not easy and if you think you got what it takes you really need to take a closer look. It's a lifestyle that you have to want not a source of income that you have to want.

Now, carry on gentleman. It was getting good.


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## Spurhunter1 (Jul 22, 2009)

Good article Richie, thanks for posting it.  A good friend of mine guides on the TN river every weekend, and some weekdays as well for the past 20 years. Everyone thinks he is getting rich, but when you really do the math, its because he LOVES to be on this river and to make folks smile. I believe if his bills were paid, he would just do it for free. He will tell anyone that asks, his best spots, tactics, and bait to use for FREE. He knows the we all reap what we sow, and I believe Cpn Richie will be reaping great rewards for a long time from what I have seen so far. Kudos to you sir!


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## jamrens (Jul 22, 2009)

Spurhunter1 said:


> Good article Richie, thanks for posting it.  A good friend of mine guides on the TN river every weekend, and some weekdays as well for the past 20 years. Everyone thinks he is getting rich, but when you really do the math, its because he LOVES to be on this river and to make folks smile. I believe if his bills were paid, he would just do it for free. He will tell anyone that asks, his best spots, tactics, and bait to use for FREE. He knows the we all reap what we sow, and I believe Cpn Richie will be reaping great rewards for a long time from what I have seen so far. Kudos to you sir!





I agree well put..


WHit


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## XTREME HUNTER (Jul 22, 2009)

I thought it was a good read, Thanks for posting.

One thing that I personally think is hurting yall is the limit restrictions they keep hitting everyone with.


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## capt stan (Jul 22, 2009)

Remember this guys, from when I was doing it an 8 hour charter normally meant about a 12 to 14 hour work day when you factored in prep work and clean up. Back to back days of that when the weather is good will break ya down...I promise ya that!

Think about how tired you are after one day of offshore fishing....now try doing that 10 or 12 days straight.... If your not doing it because you LOVE to do it.. your a fool. The money aint worth it or what chartering is all about.

Factor the cost of the charter all the over head costs as mentioned above and figure out that hourly rate..... It's a lot of work for very little scratch

Having said all that if I didn't want to spend time with my kids I'd still be chartering, maybe one day in the future when they are grown and gone I'll get back into it. But for now it's all about friends and family and having some fun!!!


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## GONoob (Jul 22, 2009)

So.. any captains want to sign me off on the required hours? lol


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## GONoob (Jul 22, 2009)

Back on topic, I know a few with licenses who do transports, give boating lessons, repairs on other boats while not fishing(For whatever reason) to recoup losses. It seems like a tough career but fun.


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## Wisconsin Ben (Jul 22, 2009)

Heck, after one small boat ride out in Alaska in 8th grade I've wanted to work on the water my whole life.  It doesn't seem like impossible expenses but I still think I'll lower my "ultimate dream job" to working on someone elses boat.  Cleaning fish and whatnot.  How well does that pay?  

I'd like to see a breakdown for some of these charter boat guys on Lake Michigan that only can fish a few months out of every year because it's too seasonal.  I suppose the boats don't have to be as expensive which helps.

Tack on the self employment taxes (13%+) and regular taxes and that's not a lot of money left.  I fix computers on the side for $40 an hour and my expeses is pretty much the gas to get there and $2.80 a week to get my name in the local weekly.


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## d-a (Jul 22, 2009)

GONoob said:


> So.. any captains want to sign me off on the required hours? lol



You need a boat too

d-a


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## Nicodemus (Jul 22, 2009)

Gentlemen, keep it civil. I`ve had to delete a few.


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## Inshore GA (Jul 22, 2009)

Good read Capt Richie! I truly love being on the river. Meeting new people and seeing them enjoying our coast is big plus too. Thats why I guide. Every day is different. Some days the fishing is easy and others leave me scratchin my head. Every day I learn a little more. I will never be wealthy (unless my lotto # is drawn) but I am enjoying every day the good lord gives me. You might say I am rich....in life.


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## G Duck (Jul 22, 2009)

Welcome to the Construction Industry. That is what I deal with everyday. I fought tooth and nail to get my Ga. GC license, and this great county we live in does not even enforce it.It is a comon thread in all business. One way I look at it is everyone has to start somewhere. This is America.


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## bouymarker (Jul 23, 2009)

OK..
I work weekends and have fished on my own in a boat 3days a week no less than 6hrs a day(tues. thru thurs.)...for the last 3yrs.
recently, i have wanted to get my license and do some of the partime stuff..reguardless of having paid customers or not i'm in the water. my cost are already there to an extent. 
I am interested in doing this and I have fished only inshore in local waters. I've had people ask me to take them that have said they are willing to pay for the ride.
If anything I'd like to offer a boat ride or dolphin tours for people who don't have a chance to get out. since i'm already in the water this could offset my cost and make some freinds...I'm not interested in becoming a competitor to anyone.
capt. richie, thanks for the info., i'd still like to do this...good article. I learned a little about the cost and the extra time it takes. I know there is a great deal more to it than what's been written here...that's the scary part but I would'nt have to rely on this as my source of income.


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## skiff23 (Jul 23, 2009)

I agree with G Duck. I am there now, went through the ringer trying to prove to some desk jockey what I have done the last 12 years so I could keep my livlyhood going. It was tough. Then you see the guys who have nothing, no insurance ,bonds or they do noy own anything when they do get caught , so they still do not loose anything. It is tough being in any small business. All of us I am sure feel the pains of weekend warriors or the fly by night buzzards. THat is why when i do business , any sort of, I make sure who I deal with has got the Reputation , tools and all prpoer certifications and insurancees.  It is not about who gave the cheapest price. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR  !!!


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 23, 2009)

Dead on Skiff... My rates change with season and all of you know how long I have been in this field. Here is how we break it down, just so everyone knows.. This is what a normal charter rate runs in SE GA.

Summer NEARSHORE (SHARK/TARPON TRIPS, NOT OFFSHORE)
4-5 Hours 1-2 People. $350.00. Add $50 for each additonal person you bring along, up to (6) total in your party.

6-Hour Trip, flat rate for up to 4 People: $550.00. Add $50 for each additional person up to 6 total in your party.

Full Day trip: Flate rate of $750.00 up to 4 People.... $50 each additional.

Offshore trips year round:

6-Hour Nearshore reef fishing: $600.00, up to 4 people max. We try to keep it @ 4 People for a quality trip. We may take a 5th on this trip for an extra $50, but that would be it. We run out about15 miles on this one at the most.

8-Hour offshore reef fishing: $800.00, up to 4 people. Same info as 6-hour trip, but we're going to run about 25 miles out.

10 Hour Red Snapper Fishing Trip: $1000.00 for up to 4 people.

They fluctuate a little during the Winter and early spring, but that gives you a good idea of how the rates work.....


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## shakey gizzard (Jul 23, 2009)

DONT FORGET A TIP!


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## Wisconsin Ben (Jul 23, 2009)

I can't say enough about how much a good captain and first mate turn a boat ride into a fishing trip though.   I took a charter out on Lake Michigan with a couple people and they left the harbor and did circles around a sandbar 1/4 mile away from where my car was parked for 4 hours.  They didn't say anything and answered questions barely at all.  We caught a few fish, but it wasn't that great.

Then we went to Tybee Island Charters (I think that's the name) and had our captain answer questions about the local wildlife, tell stories, and when we stopped to fish she'd cast a line in too.  She was enthusiastic when we caught stuff and it made the fishing trip way more fun.


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## skiff23 (Jul 23, 2009)

Personality makes the deal. No matter what business you are in .


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 23, 2009)

Skiff, you called it there once again..... Thats about 95% of it.


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## Wisconsin Ben (Jul 23, 2009)

skiff23 said:


> Personality makes the deal. No matter what business you are in .



I like my accountants boring and without a sense of humor.


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## jdgator (Jul 23, 2009)

Reputation and safety are pretty important to me. I want a skipper who isn't going to spend my 50% deposit and close shop before I get to fish. He or she has to be recommended by two or three people before I'll go. It doesn't have to be about fish as much as it does as fun. I also want him or her to worry about safety, backup equipment, watch the weather, fuel level, navigation, and comms equipment so I can enjoy myself. When you are 50 miles out, it becomes important.


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## Sharkfighter (Jul 24, 2009)

Costs of running a boat.  I have a 25ft boat and had considered getting the "6 pack" charter liscene to become a weekend warrior.  Insurance costs were a big factor in me not doing it.  THe change from my my boat insurance to charter rate was outrageous. 

 I almost always have friends and people I meet fish with me and chip in on gas.  Fishing over reefs and getting on bottom fish, catching small sharks , and Spanish are not extremely difficult things. Just get anchored over a good piece of structure.  I am NO WHERE NEAR as GOOD as CPT Ritchie or Stan though. 

 I absolutely love being out on the water but a 100 days to break even is a LOT, esp when weather is thrown in.  And most of that time you are not fighting fish yourself but just helping the others.  

Costs to me for a trip on my boat.  (25 ft single 300 HP yam two stroke).

I launch at the Marina and it is $25, could do it myself for free but with my boat it is worth the $25 plus a few dollar tip for kids that help launch.

Bait, Never leave without at least $10 in squid and shrimp MINIMUM usually closer to $15.  I catch bait but wouldn't want to rely on that only.

Ice, is usually about $5 or $6

CCA is about 75 NM round trip from FT McAlisster. thats 35 Gallons of gas at say $2.25 gal  = $78 plus $15 in two stroke oil

Bottom rigs, weights, hooks, leaders etc about $5 average for me and a few more bucks if guys i fish with don't have any.

Few more bucks cleaning supplies back home after trip.

Total is about $140-150 for the day.  For this I usually get about $40 a person in gas money from two other boaters or maybe $30 form three.  But I do it cause I LOVE fishing and being out there.  

That doesn't count longer expenses such as maintenance (every 200 hours service etc) replacing a lost anchor, dings to boat or prop, batteries that need replacing etc.

For that 600 dollar trip it easily gets down to 400 for about 8 hrs work (including the hardest the prep time) etc then throw in Insurance Rates, the fact that if you are Charter you better provide all the over $300 quality rods and reels and yopu better have backups for each person fishing, liscences, worry about changing regulations, gas that can go up to $3 a gal in a heart beat etc, AND YOU DONT get to fish and it takes a VERY dedicated person to be a CPT.  

Of course I still dream that now that I am retired Army, I can work ten more years at my new job til son graduates Medical School and then be a Charter CPT.

In the mean time I will just fish!! (taking visiting brother, sister in law and nephew out this weekend so will eat all expenses myself).


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 24, 2009)

JD-

Great post!! And you're dead on IMO.

True on all that... I am a safety freak when it comes to keeping  my crew safe and out of foul weather situations. The best thing to do for this not put yourself in the position to have to worry about it. If foul weather hits me and there is no way out, I have procedures as well and try not to get everyone in a panic. I am also going to zoom in that radar to find the path of least resistance through a storm, but work to run around it, if it's at all feasable.

I have most always had Radar on my boats to watch that weather up to 36 miles out and always carry and EPIRB as well as running ICOM Marine Radio's with Distress signaling. I only use the auto pilot when trolling unless I am at the helm personally to watch out.

 If it's more than 2-3 ft seas offshore, you can count my offshore trips cancelled. If it's blowing northeast, I will cancel an offshore trip if they're calling less than 2 ft. North East (NE) means NO EXIT.

Aboout deposits, we hold a card number and thats it. I don't authorize the card or anything. 99.99% of the time, all my clients show up anyhow. We never spend their money ahead of time. It is bad Karma.

Again, great post, man... Thanks!


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Jul 24, 2009)

Sharkfighter said:


> Costs of running a boat.  I have a 25ft boat and had considered getting the "6 pack" charter liscene to become a weekend warrior.  Insurance costs were a big factor in me not doing it.  THe change from my my boat insurance to charter rate was outrageous.
> 
> I almost always have friends and people I meet fish with me and chip in on gas.  Fishing over reefs and getting on bottom fish, catching small sharks , and Spanish are not extremely difficult things. Just get anchored over a good piece of structure.  I am NO WHERE NEAR as GOOD as CPT Ritchie or Stan though.
> 
> ...



Shark -

Well Put Also...!!


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## capt stan (Jul 24, 2009)

Capt. Richie Lott said:


> JD-
> 
> Great post!! And you're dead on IMO.
> 
> ...


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## G Duck (Jul 24, 2009)

"Costs of running a boat. I have a 25ft boat and had considered getting the "6 pack" charter liscene to become a weekend warrior. Insurance costs were a big factor in me not doing it. THe change from my my boat insurance to charter rate was outrageous. "  to quote Sharkfighter

You ought to go ahead and get it. Just becouse you get your 6-pack, does not mean you have to be a charter fishing captain. 
I took Sea School last summer and got my License. It was just one of those things that I have intended to do for a while. I have lived on the coast since the third grade (1976), been in and around the water for a long time, but learned more than I could imagine that week in school.
I dont have the slightest desire to charter fish. I barely have time to fish for myself. With work and three children, this weekend warior will be spending it with the kids.
Several years ago, when I first thought of getting a Lic. I thought I wanted to take folks Duck hunting (sea duck) arouind here.  Im a better duck hunter than fisherman
With that said, there are a bunch of folks around here that have thier Captains License that are not active charter fishing. I think you should go ahead if you have the time and take the course.
Just my opinion.


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## Sharkfighter (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks G duck, I should have done it before I started the new job and I think I will look into it still.


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## PaulD (Jul 25, 2009)

If you will get your OUPV and not charter it will get you a little break on your insurance.


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## germag (Jul 25, 2009)

Insurance $2000 a year
Licenses $300 a year
Advertising $5,000+ year
Engine & Boat depreciation $20 hour, 100trips x 8hrs= $16,000
Fuel for 100 trips 6,000 gallons @ $3.00 gal= $18,000
Ice $16 trip or $1600 in 100 trips
Tackle $1000+ year
Dockage $3000.00+ year
Maintenance $5000+ year
Bait $1,200.00+ year
Total expenses Rounded: $60,000.00
Total gross for 100 8-hour trips: $80,000 

Does the boat/engine really depreciate at a rate of $20 an hour? That's crazy. Of course obviously that's not a linear rate....it will depreciate more when it's new, but still that's an insane rate of depreciation.

Also, I think I'd consider sinking $1k into a used ice machine.....

...and catching my own bait

...and getting a website....

but, anyway.....that's a good read. It should provide customers some insight into what it takes to make a living taking people fishing. And then maybe they'll be a little more generous with the Captain for a good trip......


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## Sharkfighter (Jul 26, 2009)

> Does the boat/engine really depreciate at a rate of $20 an hour? That's crazy. Of course obviously that's not a linear rate....it will depreciate more when it's new, but still that's an insane rate of depreciation.
> 
> ......



15K for an engine (i think that is a low estimate) twins for an off shore Charter Boat at 30K.  $20 bucks an hour depreciation means you would plan to replace the engine at 1500 hrs?

I don't know how many hours you get on an engine you are using in a charter without needing complete rebuilds/ replace.  I would think 1500 is reasonable but I just don't know.

Actually that is a good question for guys like Cpt Stan and CPT Ritchie, and other high hour boat users, just how many hours do you get on a boat engine you are using a lot?

I have a 300 HPDI Yamaha 2 stroke, bought it with 136 hrs, had service done by mechanic at 200, serviced myself (just changed out filters) at 300 and will have mechanic again at 400 hrs.  In a year I put just over 170 hrs on motor.  Just how long should this motor last?


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## germag (Jul 26, 2009)

Yeah, and another aspect of that is that just because an engine is fully depreciated doesn't mean it has no value anymore or can't be used any more. It just means it's lost value for resale. So if it fully depreciates in 1500 hours, it still has some residual value and as long as it's still running and dependable, it can still be used. For business purposes it may be depreciated to the point that you can no longer write off the depreciation for tax purposes I suppose.....I'm not sure how that works for boat engines.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jul 26, 2009)

> For business purposes it may be depreciated to the point that you can no longer write off the depreciation for tax purposes I suppose.....I'm not sure how that works for boat engines.



If you have depreciated them to $0.00, you have to junk them, or "recapture" the sale price as ordinary income.

1500 hours is about the normal life expectancy for an saltwater outboard.  The calculation is a little misleading, because that's engine hours, and the calculation uses "fishing hours", which might be two or three times as much as engine hours.

However, regardless of all that, IRS depreciation rules are tied into years, not use.


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## Robert Eidson (Jul 27, 2009)

Very good read Captain !!!! Last month my lower unit on my 2008  Suzuki broke a gear and did major damage. They had to replace the unit with a new one ( $5355.00 ) and it was not cover under warranty.   ( Boats for hire do not have the same manufacturer warranty as the plesure boaters )  and in most cases are only good for a year.  So the cost of the new unit came out of pocket.  That equals 22 half-day four persons trips just for me to re-cope the cost of the unit and the expenses of the 22 trips.  The new lower unit will have over 100 hours on it before it is completely paid for.  If this would have happen the winter months ( While Business is slow ) It would be late spring before I re-cope the lost income.....

Don't get me wrong I love what I do and wouldn't give it up for anything. But slow winters, Bad weather and major motor repairs will sometime make you wonder what else is there out there that you can do to earn a buck.......Again thanks for the read, and for all you do for the members of Woody's......


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## dreamsfloatjoe (Jul 31, 2009)

I suspect the estimated operating/maintenance costs and the total amount of daily man hours required to sustain a 'profitable' fishing charter business are low, even for a 'weekend warrior'.  Add in cell fone time!   

Nice to know:  Saltwater recreational fishing continued to provide important economic benefits to America's coastal communities in 2008, bringing fishermen to the shore to reel in fish, book spots on charter and party boats, buy bait and tackle, stay in local inns and eat at local restaurants, according to a report recently issued by NOAA Fisheries. Saltwater recreational anglers took an estimated 85 million fishing trips in 2008, down slightly from the 93 million trips estimated in 2007. Saltwater anglers caught an estimated 464 million fish in 2008, down slightly from the 475 million caught in 2007. That the decreases were moderate, despite economic conditions, reflects stability in the saltwater angling industry.

Saltwater angling generates an estimated $82 billion in sales and supports more than 500,000 jobs annually, according to the most recent figures available to NOAA. Spotted seatrout was the most popular catch among marine recreational anglers in 2008. The species is caught in the Gulf of Mexico and the South Atlantic regions, which have the highest combined concentration of saltwater anglers in the nation. The top catches in other regions were grouper (Caribbean), striped bass (North Atlantic), summer flounder (Mid-Atlantic), chub mackerel (Pacific), black rockfish (Pacific Northwest), and skipjack tuna (Western Pacific). For more information, read the NOAA news release.  Reference:  NOAA Report: Saltwater Angling a Sign of Coastal Vitality.  July 22, 2009.


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## Capt. Richie Lott (Aug 2, 2009)

Sharkfighter said:


> Actually that is a good question for guys like Cpt Stan and CPT Ritchie, and other high hour boat users, just how many hours do you get on a boat engine you are using a lot?
> 
> I have a 300 HPDI Yamaha 2 stroke, bought it with 136 hrs, had service done by mechanic at 200, serviced myself (just changed out filters) at 300 and will have mechanic again at 400 hrs.  In a year I put just over 170 hrs on motor.  Just how long should this motor last?



With that 300 HPDI, all you can do is run Yamaha Ring-Free and change your primary and secondary fuel filters and lower unit lube... Plugs every 100-150 hours and that is about it. 

As far as life expectancy, my experience is that depends on the Engine and model.... 2-Strokes seem to have major powerhead problems at 500-700 hours IN MY EXPERIENCE. Not all will have the problems, but seems like about 90 percent always do.

ALL of our Yamaha 4-Strokes have been Bullet Proof. I think 1500 hours plus will be very easily accomplished without failures in MOST cases.


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## saltysenior (Aug 2, 2009)

germag said:


> Insurance $2000 a year
> Licenses $300 a year
> Advertising $5,000+ year
> Engine & Boat depreciation $20 hour, 100trips x 8hrs= $16,000
> ...





 all this cost vrs. profit talk is just a pimple in the big picture .....if you do not have another income, what are you going to do when you are older ....like stan said it doesn't take many years to wear out body parts....i know many LICENSED OPERATORS up and down the coast that have chartered all their lives ...unless there was a inheritance or
a profitable marriage, they will not have a very fancy funeral......as far as a private job, you do fine until the boss dies,re-marries or tells you about his friend Madoff..


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## grim (Aug 3, 2009)

Interesting read, thx for posting.

My guess on how depreciation is applied here is that the boat is being depreciated over a set period of time.  If it was 5 yrs, $16k/yr is an $80,000 boat.  If you fish more hours, the cost per hour goes down.  If you fish less, then it goes up.

This, in essence, is also your boat payment.  It is how you spread the cost of the boat out on a per hour, or per trip basis.  Or, how you budget for a replacement boat.  

But depreciation is a book expense.  No checks are cut to pay it off.  From a cash flow standpoint, boat payment is a better number to use, as that is what will be due every month.


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