# Cost of loading TSS for a 20 gauge



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

There's a lot of discussion on the cost of TSS shells. Just wanted to share my reality for those that might be considering giving it a try.

I calculated my cost per shell of loading the 20 gauge TSS turkey loads I used for several years  (has 1 5/8 ounce of shot). Doesn't include the cost of equipment, which I've had for a while (and which cost well less than $100). I did spring for a hull vise, and already had a cheap drill press from Harbor Freight (both of those help keep the roll crimps square, but they aren't really necessary). With the exception of the shot, most of my components come from either Ballistic Products or Precision Reloading. Pay attention to shipping costs.

My per shell cost is $5.41 each (meaning a "box" of 5 shells would be $27.05). Not cheap, but very comparable to a box of 3" 20 ga. Hevi Shot Mag Blends ( $24 plus tax, or about $25.68). The difference in the two shells is about a quarter each. That ain't much for what you get with TSS.

The actual shot for my shell is the big part at $4.87. Hull is 13 cents and powder is 19 cents. Wad is 6.4 cents and rest of components total just a little more than 13 cents per shell.

Shooting TSS ain't cheap, but not much difference in cost and you have a whole lot more knockdown power and pattern density with the TSS. For the way my mind works it's also pretty cool to kill a bird with a shell I built.

The shot is by far the most expensive component of the shell. If you decide you want to load TSS go in with a friend and buy the shot together. For instance you can save about 10% by buying 5 pounds of shot over the 1# cost. That equates to just under 50 cents a shell.


----------



## Gator89 (Feb 23, 2019)

Well, I already own a MEC 20 loader.  So that cost went down the creek a few years ago.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

No loader needed to build these shells. Everything  is measured and loaded by hand. 

That said I am loading 28 gauge TSS shells now and they have a fold (star) crimp rather than a roll crimp. I already had a 28 gauge MEC loader. I use it just to crimp the 28 gauge shells.

Interestingly, if you look at the videos for Apex Ammo what they're doing looks exactly like what I do. Was a little surprised they didn't have the process more automated.


----------



## Preacher56 (Feb 23, 2019)

I also fold crimp my 20ga 3” tss loads on an old mec 600jr. Works great!


----------



## Gator89 (Feb 23, 2019)

Bubba_1122 said:


> No loader needed to build these shells. Everything  is measured and loaded by hand.
> 
> That said I am loading 28 gauge TSS shells now and they have a fold (star) crimp rather than a roll crimp. I already had a 28 gauge MEC loader. I use it just to crimp the 28 gauge shells.
> 
> Interestingly, if you look at the videos for Apex Ammo what they're doing looks exactly like what I do. Was a little surprised they didn't have the process more automated.


May not be NEEEDED, but if it is sitting in the corner doing nothing...


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

Preacher56 said:


> I also fold crimp my 20ga 3” tss loads on an old mec 600jr. Works great!View attachment 960005


Preacher, that's a good looking crimp.

First few 28 gauge shells I loaded I just didn't like my crimp. Too loose and looked a little like a mountain on the end. Cut the shells open, salvaged the shot and powder and started over with some adjustments to my loader. They're close to perfect now (for both my 1 5/16 and 1 1/2 ounce loads).

FWIW, I don't know if it matters how we crimp them (i.e. if it makes a difference in the pressures). When I started I was told to stick strictly to the recipes I was given. If it says roll crimp then I roll crimp. If it says fold (star) crimp then I do that (though it honestly seems logical to me that a fold crimp would create less pressure in the barrel than the roll crimp).


----------



## deast1988 (Feb 23, 2019)

Folks, think tss is insane price wise. The pellets alone can run $50/$60 per 1 pound. You compare that to 2oz charges in a 3in 12ga 8shells could represent 1 pound of shot. It’s not cheap but reloading kills lots of the extra expense.


----------



## Preacher56 (Feb 23, 2019)

I started fold crimping when I got my Benelli 20ga. A 3” roll crimp will have problems feeding from the magazine without the hull being trimmed. I can fold crimp 3” hulls with no trimming and they feed perfectly. I still roll crimp some loads, and trim the hulls. I started out with tss in an 870 and an Encore, hull length wasn’t an issue.


Bubba_1122 said:


> Preacher, that's a good looking crimp.
> 
> First few 28 gauge shells I loaded I just didn't like my crimp. Too loose and looked a little like a mountain on the end. Cut the shells open, salvaged the shot and powder and started over with some adjustments to my loader. They're close to perfect now (for both my 1 5/16 and 1 1/2 ounce loads).
> 
> FWIW, I don't know if it matters how we crimp them (i.e. if it makes a difference in the pressures). When I started I was told to stick strictly to the recipes I was given. If it says roll crimp then I roll crimp. If it says fold (star) crimp then I do that (though it honestly seems logical to me that a fold crimp would create less pressure in the barrel than the roll crimp).


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

deast1988 said:


> The pellets alone can run $50/$60 per 1 pound.



I have 5 pounds on on a truck headed to me right now. Cost is $48.60 a pound (which includes shipping).

A pound will load 9.85 shells (of the 1 5/8 ounce 20 gauge shells I've loaded for several years)

Ballistic Products carries what I believe is TSS. Have been out of stock a good while. Cost is significantly more than what I pay.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

Preacher56 said:


> I started fold crimping when I got my Benelli 20ga. A 3” roll crimp will have problems feeding from the magazine without the hull being trimmed. I can fold crimp 3” hulls with no trimming and they feed perfectly. I still roll crimp some loads, and trim the hulls. I started out with tss in an 870 and an Encore, hull length wasn’t an issue.



I've only shot through pumps and single shots - no autoloaders.

I did set my drill press so that it bottoms out at just the right spot, leaving the shells exactly the same length as any other 3" twenty gauge shells. I'd be surprised and perhaps a little disappointed (but not shocked) if they wouldn't cycle through an automatic. I need to give that a try some time.

Did your original recipe call for a roll crimp? Or fold? Or did it even specify at all?


----------



## Preacher56 (Feb 23, 2019)

It’s “Shooters” 90/93 load design to be folded.


Bubba_1122 said:


> I've only shot through pumps and single shots - no autoloaders.
> 
> I did set my drill press so that it bottoms out at just the right spot, leaving the shells exactly the same length as any other 3" twenty gauge shells. I'd be surprised and perhaps a little disappointed (but not shocked) if they wouldn't cycle through an automatic. I need to give that a try some time.
> 
> Did your original recipe call for a roll crimp? Or fold? Or did it even specify at all?


----------



## 280 Man (Feb 23, 2019)

How did we ever kill a turkey before these heavier than lead shotshell blends and the such!!


----------



## Mark K (Feb 23, 2019)

With a stick, string, and wooden arrows.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

280 Man said:


> How did we ever kill a turkey before these heavier than lead shotshell blends and the such!!



I don't know but seems like these days we're killing em deader than they ever used to be kilt. 

So what shell you gonna be shooting next month? Fifty year old paper 2 3/4" Winchesters with old school lead?

The world's a changing place.

My phone ain't attached to the wall anymore.

Air conditioning in my truck involves rolling my windows up instead of rolling them down.

I don't even have to have a map when I travel anymore. My truck tells me where to go (of course my wife considers it her duty to be the back up). IF my truck doesn't tell me I can always whip out my phone.

Heck, if I cross the centerline my truck will even make my butt vibrate to remind me to get back in my lane.

My radio stations even come from an orbiting satellite that was put up there by a rocket ship.

And most of all: we now have this thing called the internet. Perhaps the greatest and the worst thing that exists on earth, all rolled into one.

For all of my life we've (our country and world) been involved with seeking better ways. We're living in a technology driven world. Things have changed. Some of it stinks, but much of it's pretty cool.

TSS just happens to be one of those better ways (that is, of course, unless a person decided they'd like to stay stuck in the past, and if so, they need to unplug their computer right now and go throw it in the trash).


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

Mark K said:


> With a stick, string, and wooden arrows.



We need some tungsten 18 arrows. Could really kill em then.


----------



## 280 Man (Feb 23, 2019)

Bubba_1122 said:


> I don't know but seems like these days we're killing em deader than they ever used to be kilt.
> 
> So what shell you gonna be shooting next month? Fifty year old paper 2 3/4" Winchesters with old school lead?
> 
> ...



 This has nothing to do with phones not on the wall, butts vibrating, a/c in pick-ups, satellite radio, your wife telling you "where to go", unplugging computers or the internet.

 Dead is dead my friend. No matter if it's a 7 dollar TSS shell or 2 dollar copper-plated shell...

Good luck to you...


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

280 Man said:


> Dead is dead my friend. No matter if it's a 7 dollar TSS shell or 2 dollar copper-plated shell...
> 
> Good luck to you...



My TSS shells are $5.41 each. 

My birds are dead. 

Good luck to you as well.


----------



## Mark K (Feb 23, 2019)

Dead with a musket ball is just as dead with a rifled barrel bullet too...but most of us adapted to the change.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 23, 2019)

Yep on the adapting to change. Thankful I made the switch to TSS several years ago, cause with neck issues I can't shoot the howitzers anymore. Being in the 20/410/28 gauge club worked out just right for me. 

I honestly don't care what folks shoot long as they're enjoying the great outdoors and hunting responsibly. Bonus points for introducing a kid(s) to the great outdoors and turkey hunting.


----------



## delacroix (Feb 23, 2019)

"Doesn't include the cost of equipment," or the shells shot in tweaking, etc.

This is not an inexpensive hobby. Cost doesn't really enter into it. If cost is an issue, stick with big 12s and lead shot. There's no difference on target at sporting distances.


----------



## Preacher56 (Feb 23, 2019)

When I figure the price of out of state tags, fuel, and everything else that fuels my addiction, the price of ammunition is minimal.


----------



## Bubba_1122 (Feb 24, 2019)

Preacher56 said:


> When I figure the price of out of state tags, fuel, and everything else that fuels my addiction, the price of ammunition is minimal.


Yessir. In Georgia we can kill 3 birds. The number of shells I shoot is pretty nominal. As has been pointed out, given all the other expense involved in turkey hunting, the incremental cost of a TSS shell over whatever a person's been shooting isn't going to be a factor in most folks budget.

So I guess the original point and purpose of this thread was that building your own TSS shells is both relatively easy, enjoyable  and cost feasible. It was to share information on that process, and also the hope that others that are building TSS shells would do likewise so that those that might want to know more could learn something about building their own. 

My goal was to help those that have an inclination. For  those that don't, that's great. If you've been killing piles of turkeys for 40 years with XYZ shell then you'd be wise to keep shooting what's worked for you. Just know that TSS is a great option for many that love turkey hunting. It's not going away (ask the big ammunition companies that have tooled up to produce it). And it's not a threat to the sport. 

Bottom line: shooting TSS is neither a bad thing or a good thing. It's just a thing.


----------



## ssramage (Feb 24, 2019)

With many companies producing TSS now, for me it would be more economical to go with factory/factory custom ammo. $6-7 per shell, weighted over how many I’ll likely shoot, isn’t that big of a deal.


----------



## Mark K (Feb 24, 2019)

I think I have enough leftover Hevi13 and Heavyweight plus all my TSS a buddy handloaded, that I won’t need to purchase shells for the next 15 turkey seasons and that’s taking into account of traveling and killing 5-7 turkeys a year.


----------



## antharper (Feb 24, 2019)

Great info Bubba , thanks for sharing !


----------



## blong (Feb 25, 2019)

I have been loading since 2010 or 11 I think. I don’t care if they are $10/shell, I’m going to shot them if I can. If I can’t afford $50/year for shells, I shouldn’t be participating in any recreational activities.


----------

