# TC Hawken 45 Cal ?



## Kicking Bird

Hi All, I recently got a great buy on this Rifle from a local pawn shop and It was sold as a Hawken and It look's like a Hawken Rifle to me, But It Is'nt marked Hawken on the Rifle, I know TC also made a Rifle called a Senaca In 45 Cal., Well here are some picture's, The Rifle Is In like new condition, So what do you all think Is this the Hawken Rifle ?


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## SgtPat

It looks like one to me.  It does have an after market fiberglass ramrod rather than the wood one.  TC did sell those as well.


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## fishfryer

I have just looked at a Hawken model and a Seneca model that I own. Your rifle is a Hawken. The forend cap and the sideplate are different on a Seneca. The sideplate on my Seneca has no decoration,the forend cap is shaped differently. That's a nice rifle you have,keep it clean,and feed it blackpowder,it'll make you grin.


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## Kicking Bird

fishfryer said:


> I have just looked at a Hawken model and a Seneca model that I own. Your rifle is a Hawken. The forend cap and the sideplate are different on a Seneca. The sideplate on my Seneca has no decoration,the forend cap is shaped differently. That's a nice rifle you have,keep it clean,and feed it blackpowder,it'll make you grin.



Thank's for the Info. Fish Fryer "Yes It Is a Nice Rifle and I'm gonna keep It clean and feed it right, I need to get this Rifle to the local shooten range, I sure cant wait to shoot It. I'm gonna try out some Patched Round Ball Load's and see what the Rifle like's.

And Thank You Sgt Pat for the Info. on the ramrod, I'll be seaching for a Wood one.


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## Dave in N GA

It looks just like my 45 caliber Hawken I acquired back in 1970. Mine is serial number 7714 your's looks like an early one too.


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## CAL

i have a T/C Hawkin and like fishfrier,it is just like yours.Great rife,enjoy her.


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## Kicking Bird

I think I'm gonna like this Rifle, There's a 50 Cal TC Hawken at the same Shop I think I'm gonna try and get that one also, I'm gonna go with the TC Recomended Loads,

Hawken, 45 caliber
Round ball loads (.440", 127 grains):
50 grains FFg - 1605 FPS - 732 ft.lbs
60 grains FFg - 1720 FPS - 841 ft.lbs
70 grains FFg - 1825 FPS - 947 ft.lbs
80 grains FFg - 1929 FPS - 1054 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 2003 FPS - 1140 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 2081 FPS - 1231 ft.lbs
110 grains FFg - 2158 FPS - 1324 ft.lbs

Maxi-Ball loads (240 grains):
80 grains FFg - 1564 FPS - 1195 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 1659 FPS - 1345 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 1743 FPS - 1485 ft.lbs

But I was wondering Is It possible to work up a load with a 405 Grain Lead FN and get close to the Original 45-70 Load useing this Rifle ?
405 (Trapdoor) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)


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## Flintrock

Kicking Bird said:


> I think I'm gonna like this Rifle, There's a 50 Cal TC Hawken at the same Shop I think I'm gonna try and get that one also, I'm gonna go with the TC Recomended Loads,
> 
> Hawken, 45 caliber
> Round ball loads (.440", 127 grains):
> 50 grains FFg - 1605 FPS - 732 ft.lbs
> 60 grains FFg - 1720 FPS - 841 ft.lbs
> 70 grains FFg - 1825 FPS - 947 ft.lbs
> 80 grains FFg - 1929 FPS - 1054 ft.lbs
> 90 grains FFg - 2003 FPS - 1140 ft.lbs
> 100 grains FFg - 2081 FPS - 1231 ft.lbs
> 110 grains FFg - 2158 FPS - 1324 ft.lbs
> 
> Maxi-Ball loads (240 grains):
> 80 grains FFg - 1564 FPS - 1195 ft.lbs
> 90 grains FFg - 1659 FPS - 1345 ft.lbs
> 100 grains FFg - 1743 FPS - 1485 ft.lbs
> 
> But I was wondering Is It possible to work up a load with a 405 Grain Lead FN and get close to the Original 45-70 Load useing this Rifle ?
> 405 (Trapdoor) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)



.
cant say exact performance with a 405 grain bullet.
my book shows a 325 grain bullet  using 100 grains is around 1500 fps and muzzle energy of 1500 to 1600 depeding on the type of powder.
Jump to a 475 grain bullet and its 1300 / 1750 .
.
 I would look at safety first..I am not sure how much pressure your rifle can handle. 
I would go after accuracy before knockdown power.I think a 405 grains  is too much bullet. The lower the weight the flatter it will shoot with alot less recoil.
.
looks like some of your numbers are using FFFg rather than FFg


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## nkbigdog

45 caliber TC Hawken yes it is. I have a 45,two 50s and a 54 TC Hawkens. The 54 has a brass ram rod on mine.  One thing I have learned they did have a kit rifle that you could finish and put togeather.  The only way to tell is by the serial number..I only use Power Belt ammo.  Love the 45 enjoy.


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## johnweaver

I second the motion on the Power Belt ammo,  been shooting them for as long as I've had my TC Black Diamond.  One shot, one kill. Simper Fi


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## Lorren68

I have a T/C Hawken .50 and I shoot PRB or Maxi-ball in mine.  IMHO save the power belt and saboted ammo for the inlines, a HAWKEN needs prb or maxi-ball.   This is not meant to put down an inline gun (I own one too) I just feel that a trad muzzleloader should be fed trad ammo.


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## godogs57

Amen. Preach it Lorren.

Give the No Excuses bullet a try.....best conical ever made.


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## Lorren68

godogs57 said:


> Amen. Preach it Lorren.
> 
> Give the No Excuses bullet a try.....best conical ever made.



LOL!!!!!!!    I guess this is evidence I have been bitten by the trad bug!!!!!


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## fishfryer

Lorren68 said:


> LOL!!!!!!!    I guess this is evidence I have been bitten by the trad bug!!!!!



You're progressing right along,won't be long, you'll start thinking of flintlocks in a, I want one way. How's your eyeball doing after the "stick in the eye" episode?


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## Lorren68

fishfryer said:


> You're progressing right along,won't be long, you'll start thinking of flintlocks in a, I want one way. How's your eyeball doing after the "stick in the eye" episode?



I have been wanting a flintlock ever since Mike Markey let me shoot his!!!!!   My eye is better now almost completly healed, I have just a small bloodshot area near my lens.   I hope everyone who read my post takes a word of caution from my accident.


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## Kicking Bird

Flintrock said:


> .
> cant say exact performance with a 405 grain bullet.
> my book shows a 325 grain bullet  using 100 grains is around 1500 fps and muzzle energy of 1500 to 1600 depeding on the type of powder.
> Jump to a 475 grain bullet and its 1300 / 1750 .
> .
> I would look at safety first..I am not sure how much pressure your rifle can handle.
> I would go after accuracy before knockdown power.I think a 405 grains  is too much bullet. The lower the weight the flatter it will shoot with alot less recoil.
> .
> looks like some of your numbers are using FFFg rather than FFg



Thank's for the Info. I'm just gonna use Patched Round Ball and have some fun, I got the Loading Info. from this web page http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/a/tcrifleloads.htm I'm not sure on the accuracy of the Load Info., 

Thank's again for all the Info. Folk's ! I went bact to the Pawn Shop Today and put the 50 Cal. TC Hawken on Hold and I'll be getting It out In two week's I'll post some picture's of It when I get the Rifle,


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## Lorren68

You will love the .50!!!!  I developed a new load for mine today using a 174gr round ball and 70gr of goexx 3f black powder.  I shot 21 times today at the range and would have shot more but the temp started rising.


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## reaper69

all is good info i have the same rifle check the replies to the post by reaper69 in reguards to the .45 thanks to all keep your head down and your powder dry


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## Kicking Bird

Lorren68 said:


> You will love the .50!!!!  I developed a new load for mine today using a 174gr round ball and 70gr of goexx 3f black powder.  I shot 21 times today at the range and would have shot more but the temp started rising.



I'll have to try that Load Lorren when I get the Rifle to the Shooten Range, I'm gonna have to get me a can of Goex FFF all's I have on hand Is Goex FF, I got a New Black Powder Supply Dealer about 30 Mile's North of where Im located who carry's all the Black Powder Shooting Supply's you can think of, I like going to his Shop cuz he alway's has a huge selection of used Black Powder Gun's, I got two more on my Wish list I want a Lyman Great Plain's Rifle In 54 Cal. and and a Lyman great Plains Pistol In 54 Cal., Thank's for sharing your 50 Cal Load Info.,


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## Nicodemus

Bird, my huntin` load for my 50 caliber flintlock longrifle is 60 grains of FFFg behind a patched round ball. Huntin` load for my Lyman Great Plains 50 caliber rifle is 70 grains of FFFg with a patched round ball. For my Great Plains pistol in 50, it`s 40 grains of FFFg, with a patched round ball.

I`ve never shot a deer with the pistol, but a lot of deer have been killed with my other two rifles.


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## Lorren68

Kicking Bird said:


> I'll have to try that Load Lorren when I get the Rifle to the Shooten Range, I'm gonna have to get me a can of Goex FFF all's I have on hand Is Goex FF, I got a New Black Powder Supply Dealer about 30 Mile's North of where Im located who carry's all the Black Powder Shooting Supply's you can think of, I like going to his Shop cuz he alway's has a huge selection of used Black Powder Gun's, I got two more on my Wish list I want a Lyman Great Plain's Rifle In 54 Cal. and and a Lyman great Plains Pistol In 54 Cal., Thank's for sharing your 50 Cal Load Info.,




You are most welcome sir,  I hope it helps you with load development.


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## Headsortails

The one time I really feel I'm hunting is when I have my Renegade with me. There is just something about the ols Style guns that feel good.


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## Kicking Bird

Nicodemus said:


> Bird, my huntin` load for my 50 caliber flintlock longrifle is 60 grains of FFFg behind a patched round ball. Huntin` load for my Lyman Great Plains 50 caliber rifle is 70 grains of FFFg with a patched round ball. For my Great Plains pistol in 50, it`s 40 grains of FFFg, with a patched round ball.
> 
> I`ve never shot a deer with the pistol, but a lot of deer have been killed with my other two rifles.



Thank's for sharing the Load Info. Nicodemus, I hope to get a good deal In the used market on a Lyman Great Plains Rifle, There's a couple of Gun Show's coming up so I'll be looking I'd like to get a 54 Cal. but I wont pass up a good deal on a 50 Cal., I noticed one thing though at the Gun Show's and Pawn Shop's you just dont see many Lyman Great Plains Rifle's available In the used market, I think everyone who has one like's them so much they aint  cutten loose with them,


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## White Horse

*Lyman rifles*

Kicking Bird, I second what Nicodemus says here about black powder roundball loads. The traditional starting point for a powder charge is one grain of powder by volume per caliber. In other words, a .50 would take 50 grains of powder. 75 grains would be a hot load in a .50. I have seen people loading 200 grains in a .50, and I have also seen people loading straight from the can without measuring. I get clear fast when I see that.

Even if pressure doesn't build to the dangerous point, huge loads just waste powder. You can have one of the 200 grain guys shoot over a white sheet or on a sandy surface and see the unburnt powder that's shot out of his barrel. 

You'll love your Lyman Great Plains when you get one. I have had one in .50 for many years and it's a great, very accurate rifle.


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## mlandrum

Quit Deer hunting 4- years ago, Y'all MAKIN me want a go get me another Smoke Pole!!!!!!!


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## fishfryer

mlandrum said:


> Quit Deer hunting 4- years ago, Y'all MAKIN me want a go get me another Smoke Pole!!!!!!!



You quit four years ago? Who killed those deer you posted pictures of last fall,along with some hogs? I for one, think you need to get another smokepole. Oh yeah, where's your comment on my pea patch?


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## Kicking Bird

I got my New/Used 50 Cal TC Hawken the other Day and I found time to get some picture's up, I like the Wood on the 50 Cal It's darker and a better grain In the Wood than the 45 Cal, And the Hammer/Lock Is different the 45 Cal the Hammer spur Is sraight up & down and the Hammer on the 50 Cal. slope's to the rear, Also the front sight of the 50 Cal has a white bead, Now I gotta find the time to get to the Shooting Range and see how they Shoot,


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## Kicking Bird

White Horse said:


> Kicking Bird, I second what Nicodemus says here about black powder roundball loads. The traditional starting point for a powder charge is one grain of powder by volume per caliber. In other words, a .50 would take 50 grains of powder. 75 grains would be a hot load in a .50. I have seen people loading 200 grains in a .50, and I have also seen people loading straight from the can without measuring. I get clear fast when I see that.
> 
> Even if pressure doesn't build to the dangerous point, huge loads just waste powder. You can have one of the 200 grain guys shoot over a white sheet or on a sandy surface and see the unburnt powder that's shot out of his barrel.
> 
> You'll love your Lyman Great Plains when you get one. I have had one in .50 for many years and it's a great, very accurate rifle.



Thank's for the Info. White Horse, And I'm gonna go with your advice on the  .50 Cal would take 50 grains of powder. 75 grains would be a hot load in a .50 Cal, And keep my loads between 50 & 75 Grain's of Powder, I sure dont want to waste Black Powder, I'm gonna get a Lyman Plains Rifle It's been on my Wish List for way to long, We got a Big Gun Show coming up In Fremont NE and It's The Fort Atkinson Muzzleloading Club doing the show so I got a good chance of finding one there,


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## Nicodemus

In my Great Plains rifle, with the load I  listed, I have only recovered one ball, and it was hung between two neckbones. All the rest have been pass thrus. This is from ranges of 10 feet, to a little over 100 yards. I`ve never recovered a ball from my flintlock.

It doesn`t take a whole lot of powder.


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## reaper69

*.45 cal load*

all is good rifle is a jewel, please see the post that i put in the firearms reloading section titled t/c 45 update.  I listed all the things that came together great with my t/c.  my rifle loves round balls compared to conicles , not that they didnt group decent just not as good as the load i posted.


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## Kicking Bird

Nicodemus said:


> In my Great Plains rifle, with the load I  listed, I have only recovered one ball, and it was hung between two neckbones. All the rest have been pass thrus. This is from ranges of 10 feet, to a little over 100 yards. I`ve never recovered a ball from my flintlock.
> 
> It doesn`t take a whole lot of powder.



Thank's Again for all your Info. And I'm sure gonna use your Powder Load Info.,



reaper69 said:


> all is good rifle is a jewel, please see the post that i put in the firearms reloading section titled t/c 45 update.  I listed all the things that came together great with my t/c.  my rifle loves round balls compared to conicles , not that they didnt group decent just not as good as the load i posted.



I'll check out your Topic, I Hope my 45 Cal. like's Roundball cuz that's all I plan on useing, Thank's for your reply,


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