# Hitler a Christian?



## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

This topic was posted in the Spirituality and discussions forum, but I did not want to jump in there and hijack the thread.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611773

One of the comments that I thought was interesting was the one that said. "consider the source"  the source was from 
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm. I thought it interesting because WHERE do they think they would find it talked about? On a Christian forum? No self respecting christian would admit that Hitler had the exact same beliefs or even that Hitler was a Christian. I am fairly sure Hitler prayed to the same God as every other christian for guidance and victory and believed that his prayers were answered when things went his way. I would think Hitler felt God was on his side too even though christians in the Allied forces thought the exact same thing.
Isn't it peculiar that christains think God hates the same people they do, even when it is other christians?


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## pnome (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Isn't it peculiar that christains think God hates the same people they do, even when it is other christians?



I imagine that they simply don't consider the enemy to be a "real Christian"

Christians are not to be singled out in this though.  Almost everyone makes that sort of fallacy some time or another. 

What is peculiar here is that you chose to capitalize "God" but not "christians."  I wonder if there is something Freudian about that.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

No nothing freudian,whatever happens , happens, nothing more or less. I am sure if you want to check through my others posts you will notice capitals, lowercase, abbreviations, slang and just misspelled words.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

> I imagine that they simply don't consider the enemy to be a "real Christian"


Right, each side thinking the same thing about the other.



> Christians are not to be singled out in this though. Almost everyone makes that sort of fallacy some time or another.


Again I agree, but in the case with hitler/germany, it was a Christian thing.


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## pnome (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> No nothing freudian,whatever happens , happens, nothing more or less. I am sure if you want to check through my others posts you will capitals, lowercase, abbreviations, slang and just misspelled words.



Don't get me wrong.  I'm no grammar Nazi.  I just thought that particular mistake was interesting.  That's all.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

I will put my spell check on if you think it is necessary, looking back. I did not capitalize Hitler or Germany. Now I am scared to think what that means in the deepest depths of my mind......

Naaawwwww, i KouldNt giVe too darnz and a krap!


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> This topic was posted in the Spirituality and discussions forum, but I did not want to jump in there and hijack the thread.
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611773
> 
> One of the comments that I thought was interesting was the one that said. "consider the source"  the source was from
> ...



Since you're quoting me, I'll respond.

Yes, Hitler was a dedicated Christian ... and Liberace was a dedicated heterosexual.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> No self respecting christian would admit that Hitler had the exact same beliefs ...



My Bible is missing the "blessed is he who tosses six million Jews into ovens" section of the sermon on the mount.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> My Bible is missing the "blessed is he who tosses six million Jews into ovens" section of the sermon on the mount.



Do you believe that any murder will keep a person out of heaven, or does it have to be over a certain number of murders, or does it depend more on the motivation for the murder?


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## Capt Quirk (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> My Bible is missing the "blessed is he who tosses six million Jews into ovens" section of the sermon on the mount.



Look into the Spanish Inquistion, and the conversion or slaughter of Native Americans.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Do you believe that any murder will keep a person out of heaven, or does it have to be over a certain number of murders, or does it depend more on the motivation for the murder?



Matthew 5:21-22

_“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’  But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment._


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

Capt Quirk said:


> Look into the Spanish Inquistion, and the conversion or slaughter of Native Americans.



I have.  Neither has anything to do with the ridiculous claim that Hitler was a Christian.  Just because an atheist website claims that Hitler's "faith parallels the belief of many Christians today" does not make it so.

I eagerly await the "Stalin was a Christian" and "Mao was a Christian" threads.  Maybe we can have a "Satan was a Christian" thread, too.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Matthew 5:21-22
> 
> _“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’  But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment._



Did Moses commit murder?


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## stringmusic (Mar 23, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Did Moses commit murder?



yes


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## stringmusic (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I have.  Neither has anything to do with the ridiculous claim that Hitler was a Christian.  Just because an atheist website claims that Hitler's "faith parallels the belief of many Christians today" does not make it so.
> 
> I eagerly await the "Stalin was a Christian" and "Mao was a Christian" threads.  Maybe we can have a "Satan was a Christian" thread, too.


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## stringmusic (Mar 23, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Do you believe that any murder will keep a person out of heaven, or does it have to be over a certain number of murders, or does it depend more on the motivation for the murder?



I dont think murder keeps anyone out of Heaven. Not wanting or accepting a relationship with Jesus Christ is what keeps one apart from God after death.


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## atlashunter (Mar 23, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I dont think murder keeps anyone out of Heaven. Not wanting or accepting a relationship with Jesus Christ is what keeps one apart from God after death.



I guess that leaves open the prospect you might get to meet Hitler in heaven when you get there.


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## Achilles Return (Mar 23, 2011)

Doesn't matter. This topic is seriously pointless.


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## JFS (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> My Bible is missing the "blessed is he who tosses six million Jews into ovens" section of the sermon on the mount.



Maybe he thought it was the christian thing to do...




"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior
as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness,
surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for
what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who,
God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.

"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read
through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in
His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the
brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against
the Jewish poison.

"Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I
recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was
for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."

--Adolf Hitler


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## Achilles Return (Mar 23, 2011)

This makes me very grateful that we've been able to avoid doing the '20th century mass murders' volleyball games so far. They really do nothing to add to the discussion.


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## Crubear (Mar 23, 2011)

Why is it important what Hitler was or wasn't?


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## atlashunter (Mar 23, 2011)

I suppose one thing Christians can count on if their beliefs are true is that none of Hitlers victims who rejected the divinity of Christ will be in heaven.

I think this is a discussion worth having. Not to place blame by saying "Hitler was a christian" or "Stalin was an atheist" and thereby somehow smear everyone who holds those beliefs. But to look at history and the individuals involved, apply different theologies to that history, and look at the implications. I find that very worthwhile.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

I look for consistency or the lack thereof.
"Hitler won't be in heaven because he was a murderer."
Moses was a murderer.
"Well, maybe murderers can go to heaven, but Hitler can't because he wasn't a REAL Christian."

Just pick a position and stick with it.  The line that moves all over the place to fit the current situation reminds me of what Jesus said about the luke-warm follower.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Matthew 5:21-22
> 
> _“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’  But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment._




centerpin fan,
The bible is filled, FILLED with murder and the majority of it is at god's doing so please, if you are gonna use scripture don't pick and choose the ones that forbid murder and skip the ones that not only show it, but demand it.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> My Bible is missing the "blessed is he who tosses six million Jews into ovens" section of the sermon on the mount.



I bet your bible has the part where every human (What Ten, Twenty million?? ) on earth was drowned except 8 on the ark. I can't imagine it was an easy way to go.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Since you're quoting me, I'll respond.
> 
> Yes, Hitler was a dedicated Christian ... and Liberace was a dedicated heterosexual.



Well it is clear you don't know your history.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> No self respecting christian would admit that Hitler had the exact same beliefs or even that Hitler was a Christian. I am fairly sure Hitler prayed to the same God as every other christian for guidance and victory and believed that his prayers were answered when things went his way.



Do you actually believe any of this?  Do you actually believe the life Hitler lived and the life Mother Teresa lived were substantially the same?  Do you actually believe that the Hitler who sent Jews to the gas chambers and the Corrie ten Boom who helped Jews escape the gas chambers "had the exact same beliefs"?  

My guess would be "no" to all of the above, just as the author at nobeliefs.com doesn't believe any of it.  Atheists like him love to throw this crap out there in the hopes that it will tarnish believers.

BTW, the leading suspect in the Jack the Ripper case was a Jew, so I won’t get my hopes up for a “Jack the Ripper was a Christian” thread.


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## TTom (Mar 23, 2011)

You lose the debate right from the start based on GODWIN'S LAW.


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## stringmusic (Mar 23, 2011)

TTom said:


> You lose the debate right from the start based on GODWIN'S LAW.


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## atlashunter (Mar 23, 2011)

TTom said:


> You lose the debate right from the start based on GODWIN'S LAW.



That's not what Godwins Law states...


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## TTom (Mar 23, 2011)

I know it's not specifically what Godwin's Law states, however the corollaries  that have come about have held that the person who resorts to the Hitler reference loses the debate.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Do you actually believe any of this?  Do you actually believe the life Hitler lived and the life Mother Teresa lived were substantially the same?  Do you actually believe that the Hitler who sent Jews to the gas chambers and the Corrie ten Boom who helped Jews escape the gas chambers "had the exact same beliefs"?
> 
> My guess would be "no" to all of the above, just as the author at nobeliefs.com doesn't believe any of it.  Atheists like him love to throw this crap out there in the hopes that it will tarnish believers.
> 
> BTW, the leading suspect in the Jack the Ripper case was a Jew, so I won’t get my hopes up for a “Jack the Ripper was a Christian” thread.



No no no, I am NOT saying they lived similar lives at all. What I am saying is that he believed in god and the bible. He believed that god was on his side during the war. He must have believed that what he was doing was OK in the eyes of god and so did the German people. There are plenty of 3rd Reich items with "Got Mitt Uns" inscribed on it.
In no way am I saying or insinuating that he did what he did because he was a Christian, therefore all Christians are lumped into the same category. All I am saying is that he had the same resources available to him as every other Christian but as maniacal as he was he believed god was with him through it all. it shows how people can justify anything as long as they think the lord is on their side.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> What I am saying is that he believed in god and the bible.



 ... as do Satan and his demons.  Whatever he believed, it obviously had no positive effect on his life.




bullethead said:


> All I am saying is that he had the same resources available to him as every other Christian ...



You keep referring to him as a Christian.  Other than a few scribblings in _Mein Kampf_, why would anybody believe that Hitler was a Christian?  Hitler is the man generally regarded as the most evil person of the 20th century.  Scattering Christian references in various speeches/writings does not make him a Christian anymore than my typing "relativity" makes me a physicist.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> ... as do Satan and his demons.  Whatever he believed, it obviously had no positive effect on his life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like most politicians, I am sure he spoke out of both sides of his mouth and said whatever kept him in popularity at the time or whatever anyone wanted to hear. Doing a little research shows that he spoke both for and against christianity, but he also had the full backing of the church and close ties with Pope Pius XII. He was baptized Roman Catholic, was an altar boy and attended monastery school. He was never excommunicated or condemned by his church.
I will also say that there is plenty of historical evidence that behind closed doors Hitler did not speak well of Christianity.
What is undeniable is that he used christianity to get a nation of christians to follow him. He alone could never have done those horrific things.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

Really nether side wants to be associated with him! I guess it depends on who you ask!


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## CAL (Mar 23, 2011)

Not that it would matter to anyone what I think,but here it is.If when I die and the Bible says we will transen in the blink of an eye to where we are going.I look up and see Hitler and a few bankers I know,rest assured i pretty well know I have busted torment wide open.


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

CAL said:


> Not that it would matter to anyone what I think,but here it is.If when I die and the Bible says we will transen in the blink of an eye to where we are going.I look up and see Hitler and a few bankers I know,rest assured i pretty well know I have busted torment wide open.



Good stuff Cal. Lol, Literally!


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## CAL (Mar 23, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Good stuff Cal. Lol, Literally!



Now bullet,it just sounds like you are agreeing with me.Are you alright,ain't running no fever or nuttin are ya?


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## bullethead (Mar 23, 2011)

Nothing to worry about, I can appreciate a good sense of humor. Not a one of you that I wouldn't sit down and buy a few rounds of beer for. I do not take anything personally, just enjoy the discussions.


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## RdKill (Mar 24, 2011)

Historically and even today, the extreme right wing claims the moral high ground of Christianity to gain support from those who otherwise would support the opposition.


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## vowell462 (Mar 24, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Nothing to worry about, I can appreciate a good sense of humor. Not a one of you that I wouldn't sit down and buy a few rounds of beer for. I do not take anything personally, just enjoy the discussions.



Feel the same way, and ill take ya up on the beer.


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## bullethead (Mar 24, 2011)

Anytime!


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## jmar28 (Mar 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> This topic was posted in the Spirituality and discussions forum, but I did not want to jump in there and hijack the thread.
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611773
> 
> One of the comments that I thought was interesting was the one that said. "consider the source"  the source was from
> ...



 wish you would have jumped on my thread......you could have kept that sucker going for a few pages ......but like I said earlier in it.....I like questions like this,make you scratch your head a little bit


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## mtnwoman (Apr 11, 2012)

Why can't we keep it going? 

Didn't someone just count the times I used hitler in a thread????....dang speaking of people thinking they are soooooooo much smarter and so slick......doesn't mean they are, they just think they are smart enough to outsmart everyone, kinda like I said, like Hitler....he truly believed he was smart enough to rule the world...he was wrong, course everyone in his camp thought they were, too, right along with him....so there ya go. Birds of a feather....lol


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## mtnwoman (Apr 11, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> ... as do Satan and his demons.  Whatever he believed, it obviously had no positive effect on his life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's unreal that you'd even have to explain any of that to anyone. But when the shoe is on the other foot, panties start knottin' up.

Here's some truth
James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 11, 2012)

RdKill said:


> Historically and even today, the extreme right wing claims the moral high ground of Christianity to gain support from those who otherwise would support the opposition.


There are Republicans who don't think Democrats are Christians.
The Mafia & Irish Travelers are very devout Christians.
The people in prison are Christians
It's been said before that Hitler might be in Heaven and Anne Frank might be in He11.


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## dawg2 (Apr 11, 2012)

bullethead said:


> This topic was posted in the Spirituality and discussions forum, but I did not want to jump in there and hijack the thread.
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611773
> 
> One of the comments that I thought was interesting was the one that said. "consider the source"  the source was from
> ...



Muslims fight muslims, jews fight jews, baptists fights baptists, hindus fight hindus, atheists fight atheists, polytheists fight polytheists, etc, etc, etc.  



bullethead said:


> ...Isn't it peculiar that christains think God hates the same people they do, even when it is other christians?


No, it isn't particular nor exclusive to christianity.


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## bullethead (Apr 11, 2012)

dawg2 said:


> Muslims fight muslims, jews fight jews, baptists fights baptists, hindus fight hindus, atheists fight atheists, polytheists fight polytheists, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> No, it isn't particular nor exclusive to christianity.



This thread was 13 months old and someone bumped it up today......no idea why.......


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## mtnwoman (Apr 11, 2012)

bullethead said:


> This thread was 13 months old and someone bumped it up today......no idea why.......



Well if was 10 million years ago, you could question it. But since the facts are here, it just proves 'why' people bring up hitler and it ain't always Christians...we just get tired of hearing it....and this proves that it's not only Christians that bring him up. But God forbid a Christian to bring up hitler....questioned, charged and hung for bringin' it up. That's why....if you couldn't figure it out on your own. Wasn't I just dogged out today for bringin' it up....ok for y'all but not me....doubleminded...forked tongue.
So are you saying a lot has changed in 13 months?  wow...it was ok then to bring it up, but not today.


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## Four (Apr 12, 2012)

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jews, I am fighting for the work of the lord. - Adolf Hitler , Mein Kamf

"The task which Christ began but did not finish, I will complete" - Adolf Hitler, December 1926

Also fun fact i stumbled on... the current pope was apart of the hitler's youth.


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## bullethead (Apr 12, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Well if was 10 million years ago, you could question it. But since the facts are here, it just proves 'why' people bring up hitler and it ain't always Christians...we just get tired of hearing it....and this proves that it's not only Christians that bring him up. But God forbid a Christian to bring up hitler....questioned, charged and hung for bringin' it up. That's why....if you couldn't figure it out on your own. Wasn't I just dogged out today for bringin' it up....ok for y'all but not me....doubleminded...forked tongue.
> So are you saying a lot has changed in 13 months?  wow...it was ok then to bring it up, but not today.



There is nothing wrong with bringing it up. It has been discussed a few times on here already. What gets really old is the same 3 or 4 typical, constant replies that we KNOW are coming and have nothing to do with the actual conversation. You will work them in no matter how far off base they are. They are (eventually)in every single thread that you have replied in.

You use Hitler as your link to evil. You use him as an example to somehow prove Satan or evil while TOTALLY missing the point that you are often making "our" point for us by even bringing him up! Like it or not, he was on your team! You distance yourself from him as far as you can but in fact he and his followers were Christians. You don't have to like it but all the denial and distancing does not change that. You and Centerpin can deny a statement made by Hitler and pair it with one made by Obama about 2nd Amendment rights but it is weak, very weak in tying the two together. Difference being that Hitler was a practicing Christian long before he came into power and used the Religion to further his power and control over the people WITH the people. You can go back through History and see his personal involvement with Christianity. He attended church( I am almost certain he was an alter boy),prayed, asked God for guidance and did nothing different than most that claim to be "better" Christians. On the other hand, just because Obama makes a weak statement about defending 2nd Amendment rights, does not mean he has a past record for doing such things. There is no evidence that Obama attended NRA conventions  and the Kentucky Machine Gun shoot since early childhood and is now active in 2nd Amnd Rights, yet is secretly trying to abolish those rights. His track record is,was and always will be Anti-Gun/Anti 2nd Amendment. The FACTS are that Hitler, no matter how much it despises Christains, was a Christian....and the proof is there for all to see.

The thread you revived after 13 months was specifically about Hitler. Hitler WAS the topic at hand. It was not worked in totally different topic.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 27, 2012)

bullethead said:


> No nothing freudian,whatever happens , happens, nothing more or less. I am sure if you want to check through my others posts you will notice capitals, lowercase, abbreviations, slang and just misspelled words.



Your refusal of it being Freudian, totally makes it Freudian. I capatilized Freudian just to make sure noone accused me of being Freudian. Did it work?


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## Asath (Apr 27, 2012)

Freud wasn't a Christian.  He thought, accurately, that religious belief was a delusion, and a form of sickness.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 28, 2012)

Asath said:


> Freud wasn't a Christian.  He thought, accurately, that religious belief was a delusion, and a form of sickness.



Then call me sick!

I never said Freud was a Christian, nor Hitler.

Persecute me some more, please.


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## Asath (Apr 28, 2012)

I'll just go with your own logic -- your refusal of it being Freudian, totally makes it Freudian.

So, tell us about your childhood . . .


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## bullethead (Apr 28, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Your refusal of it being Freudian, totally makes it Freudian. I capatilized Freudian just to make sure noone accused me of being Freudian. Did it work?



It must have worked, you are certainly....something.....


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## ted_BSR (Apr 28, 2012)

Asath said:


> I'll just go with your own logic -- your refusal of it being Freudian, totally makes it Freudian.
> 
> So, tell us about your childhood . . .



In a word, it was perfect.


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## ambush80 (Apr 28, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> In a word, it was perfect.



This swine, for one, is immensely enjoying the pearls you are casting before me.  Please continue, with full vigor, your witness.


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## mtnwoman (May 2, 2012)

bullethead said:


> This topic was posted in the Spirituality and discussions forum, but I did not want to jump in there and hijack the thread.
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611773
> 
> One of the comments that I thought was interesting was the one that said. "consider the source"  the source was from
> ...



Didn't you once proclaim you were a Christian? Do you believe you were? were you?

I don't believe Hitler ever believed he was a Christian any more than a preditor who goes to church to fool a man into trusting him (ie hitler) with his young children....isn't that what Hitler was mostly after? the children? he used Christianity as trickery.....he was satan incarnate with no conscience and would stoop to any level to get his way. Any man can go around pretending to be a Christian to obtain a Christian wife, the church is full of the them.....church is full of bar flys looking for women to pray on....and it's free...any one can pretend to be a Christian and have no fear of a god they don't believe in, even you.  Most of us know Hitler was no Christian....he did not follow any version of Christianity....twist that all you want to.

God forbid when a Christian compares an atheist to Hitler though, eh? can't even man up on that one, eh? If Hitler had the fear of the real God of Abraham in him he would've never used God's name in 'vain'.


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## mtnwoman (May 2, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> This swine, for one, is immensely enjoying the pearls you are casting before me.  Please continue, with full vigor, your witness.



You make your mama proud, and your daddy, too. Do you tell them that....or are you a closet swine?


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## mtnwoman (May 2, 2012)

Asath said:


> Freud wasn't a Christian.  He thought, accurately, that religious belief was a delusion, and a form of sickness.



That was his opinion. What Hitler thought about supremacy was his opinion, too, do you think he was correct in his thinking also? I think Hitler was delusional and was sick, some thought he was accurate in his thinking, too, didn't make it so....did it?


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## mtnwoman (May 2, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Do you believe that any murder will keep a person out of heaven, or does it have to be over a certain number of murders, or does it depend more on the motivation for the murder?



Do you believe Hitler was really a Christian? just because he claimed to be? If so does that means that you believe everyone who claims to be a Christian really IS a Christian?

How many times on this forum have I heard hypocryte....guess it just doesn't apply here, eh?


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## mtnwoman (May 2, 2012)

bullethead said:


> The thread you revived after 13 months was specifically about Hitler. Hitler WAS the topic at hand. It was not worked in totally different topic.



I didn't revive that thread....it was posted somewhere else, and I followed the link and posted on it. 

What difference does it make, if the shoe fits wear it....


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Do you believe Hitler was really a Christian? just because he claimed to be? If so does that mean that you believe everyone who claims to be a Christian really IS a Christian?
> 
> How many times on this forum have I heard hypocryte....guess it just doesn't apply here, eh?



Do you believe Martin Luther was really a Christian?


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## georgia_home (May 2, 2012)

Hitler was a Christian! When it suited him.

Religion has been successfully corrupted by multitudes of leaders in an attempt to motivate people to hate the same folks hated by the leaders. It is that simple.

So, if you want to attack Jews, get Christians to hate them.

It is the same as folks that provoke warfare based on skin color, clan, monetary possessions, or whatever, the purpose is always to get one populace to turn on another.

It is proven easily. Go back and read the posts in this thread. Look how folks get worked up about something so silly as the religious beliefs of a mass murderer.

It proves the "sheepeople-ness" of people.

It is not unlike all the talk now, WE want the money of the 5%, and we outnumber them, let's have a go. It ain't religion, but a perverted motivational strategy, in the same way the religious "rightness" of some actions are.

Have fun folks! Some of you folks are getting pretty worked up on this. Chill pill time.


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## mtnwoman (May 3, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Do you believe Martin Luther was really a Christian?



Do you?
Do you believe hitler was?
Do you believe I am?


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## Artfuldodger (May 3, 2012)

I wonder how many Presidents, politicians, & businessmen pose as Christians just to get votes & money.


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## atlashunter (May 3, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Do you?
> Do you believe hitler was?
> Do you believe I am?



Is that a yes or a no?


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## ted_BSR (May 3, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> This swine, for one, is immensely enjoying the pearls you are casting before me.  Please continue, with full vigor, your witness.



Oink.


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## mtnwoman (May 3, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> Is that a yes or a no?


 I don't know...I'm asking you.....

your question makes no sense, talk about beating around the bush.....lol


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## mtnwoman (May 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder how many Presidents, politicians, & businessmen pose as Christians just to get votes & money.



They are known by their fruit...check that.

 Around 90% of Americans believe in God...so there ya go. Obviously they are easily tricked by predjudice...it worked....didn't it? The antichrist is winning, for now. But we knew that, didn't we? Come quickly Lord Jesus!


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## atlashunter (May 4, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I don't know...I'm asking you.....
> 
> your question makes no sense, talk about beating around the bush.....lol



The question makes just as much sense as asking if Hitler was a christian and you were quick with an answer on that one.


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## fish hawk (May 4, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder how many Presidents, politicians, & businessmen pose as Christians just to get votes & money.



Probably more than a few....sadly being a christian isnt nearly as important as it use to be with most voters and will actually hurt the vote with some........Our pastor shared something with me one day that deeply saddened his heart.He asked a well known,well liked businessman,who was a christian why he wouldnt join our church....The response he got:I'm gonna join another church thats larger,it's better for business. thats sad!!!


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## dexrusjak (May 4, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Probably more than a few....sadly being a christian isnt nearly as important as it use to be with most voters and will actually hurt the vote with some........Our pastor shared something with me one day that deeply saddened his heart.He asked a well known,well liked businessman,who was a christian why he wouldnt join our church....The response he got:I'm gonna join another church thats larger,it's better for business. thats sad!!!



As long as the candidate isn't an atheist.

Article.

Running for political office as an open atheist = a good way to lose an election (in a landslide)


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## Four (May 4, 2012)

Pope made a speech a couple years ago in brittan warning of atheists, and comparing them with the nazi's....

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2010/9/16/pope-arrives-in-britain-warning-of-atheist-ex

Awkward that he ignores the fact that the catholic church openly praised Hitlers regime.


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## Four (May 4, 2012)

Here is also a good reference to books banned during the nazi regime.

Notice books containing works of Darwin are banned...

_"c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk."_

_"Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism"_

http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm


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## dawg2 (May 4, 2012)

Four said:


> Pope made a speech a couple years ago in brittan warning of atheists, and comparing them with the nazi's....
> 
> http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2010/9/16/pope-arrives-in-britain-warning-of-atheist-ex
> 
> Awkward that he ignores the fact that the catholic church openly praised Hitlers regime.



Context.  

In 1933 (the date of that picture) the Nazi Party was something totally different than what it was in the 40's.

Also, the Catholic church did NOT openly praise Hitler's regime.  Initially Nazism was seen as an alternative against communism (especially since it was atheistic) which was spreading in europe.  However, Nazism shifted and contorted into something as bad or worse than communism.  The church did not "praise" it after the anti-semitism and other troubling facets emerged.

In fact, there were quite a few Catholic Priests sent to concentration camps as well.  Your continuous posting of that picture is misleading and complpetely out of context.  Try something new or novel instead of something trite and disingenuous.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=472

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/KZDachau/DachauLife3.html

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0229.htm


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## Four (May 4, 2012)

Interesting, Lets see what Germany was doing in 1933 was was so different.

February 28
The Reichstag Fire Decree is passed, nullifying several German civil liberties.
March 20
Germany's first concentration camp, Dachau, is completed.
April 1
The recently elected Nazis start a one-day boycott of Jewish businesses.
April 26
The Gestapo is established in Germany.
May 2
Hitler outlaws trade unions.
May 10
Nazis start massive public book burnings.

edit: the cathoic church signed the Reichskonkordat in july 1933

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat


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## Four (May 4, 2012)

or how about the catholic church blessed hitler on his birthday every year until the end, starting in 1939.






However, if we really want to look at facist cathoics, Mussolini's italy fits the mark better than germany.


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## dawg2 (May 4, 2012)

Four said:


> Interesting, Lets see what Germany was doing in 1933 was was so different.
> 
> February 28
> The Reichstag Fire Decree is passed, nullifying several German civil liberties.
> ...


Well, why wouldn't they sign something that guranteed the rights of the Catholic Church?  I guess it didn't work out real well since they started sending the priests to concentration camps.  Not sure what your point is.


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## dawg2 (May 4, 2012)

Four said:


> ...However, if we really want to look at facist cathoics, Mussolini's italy fits the mark better than germany.



You do realize that people make up a religion and there are many different people.  You can not label an entire religion based on the actions of a few, regardless of the denomination.

Pol Pot and Stalin were atheist and killed millions.  DO you kill millions?  I would not think so, as your name would be in the history books.  I can not use Pol Pot nor Stalin as a measure of how atheists truly are as it would not be an accurate representation.  

Your argument is folly and proves nor accomplishes nothing.  Unless your only goal is to sit there staring at the monitor, pining away for another response, of which I will have no more....so pine away.


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## Four (May 4, 2012)

dawg2 said:


> You do realize that people make up a religion and there are many different people.  You can not label an entire religion based on the actions of a few, regardless of the denomination.
> 
> Pol Pot and Stalin were atheist and killed millions.  DO you kill millions?  I would not think so, as your name would be in the history books.  I can not use Pol Pot nor Stalin as a measure of how atheists truly are as it would not be an accurate representation.
> 
> Your argument is folly and proves nor accomplishes nothing.  Unless your only goal is to sit there staring at the monitor, pining away for another response, of which I will have no more....so pine away.



A bit of straw man, eh? I'm not making those arguments. I was just making some statements regarding Catholicism and Nazi Germany, how they interacted, etc. Because that's the theme of this thread.


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## mtnwoman (May 4, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> The question makes just as much sense as asking if Hitler was a christian and you were quick with an answer on that one.



Well of course I was quick on the answer....it wasn't like I had to mull it over....why?do you? sheesh  if you do....wow


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## atlashunter (May 4, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Well of course I was quick on the answer....it wasn't like I had to mull it over....why?do you? sheesh  if you do....wow



I know christians would like to think that someone like Hitler couldn't have been a christian and like wise for the many anti-Semitic Germans who put him in power and did his murderous dirty work but that just isn't the historical reality. The Catholic church has a well known and well documented history of anti-Semitism and that played a part in Hitler's world view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism#Nazi_antisemitism 



> On April 26, 1933 Hitler declared during a meeting with Roman Catholic Bishop Wilhelm Berning of Osnabrück:
> 
> “I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.”





> The Nazis used Martin Luther's book, On the Jews and Their Lies (1543), to claim a moral righteousness for their ideology. Luther even went so far as to advocate the murder of those Jews who refused to convert to Christianity, writing that "we are at fault in not slaying them".



Funny that you are so quick to condemn Hitler but not Martin Luther. Of course Martin Luther is a prominent figure in christianity yet Hitler's views were right in line with Martin Luther when it came to jews.


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## mtnwoman (May 6, 2012)

atlashunter said:


> I know christians would like to think that someone like Hitler couldn't have been a christian and like wise for the many anti-Semitic Germans who put him in power and did his murderous dirty work but that just isn't the historical reality. The Catholic church has a well known and well documented history of anti-Semitism and that played a part in Hitler's world view.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism#Nazi_antisemitism
> 
> ...


*Ok....let's meet somewhur iiiiinnnn the middle....I don't know what Catholics do...but i mesh with some of them..by the HS....*


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## Artfuldodger (May 6, 2012)

I'd like to think Hitler was a Christian. If salvation is assured every Christian should hope Hitler was a Christian. Kinda gives us the freedom to do whatever we want to.


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