# 1851 Conf. Navy .44 BP Revolver



## dadsbuckshot (May 16, 2009)

Anyone hunt with one of the ol' school black powder .44 revolvers? 

I was thinking of getting one to hunt with, but am a leary of its range and effectivness on deer etc...

Here is the one I was looking at getting:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&rid=&parentType=&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true

Anybody have any kills - or pics to show with a revolver along these lines?


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## tv_racin_fan (May 16, 2009)

I wouldn't try with that handgun sir.


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## hawgrider1200 (May 16, 2009)

*Would u use bp for hunting*



tv_racin_fan said:


> I wouldn't try with that handgun sir.



TV RACIN FAN is a black powder enthusiast. He doesn't like the Colt replicas for hunting because of the inherent design flaws. One of those would be the lack of a full frame. The Colt replicas have no backstrap. The Colt replicas only hold 30 grains of BP not enough to dreate the velocities and knock down power needed for hunting larger game. The rear sights on the Colt replicas are inferior, just a notch in the hammer.  I believe I read one of Mr TV RACIN FAN'S post where he said he would hunt with a Ruger Old Army loaded with all the BP you could stuff in the cylinders.


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## whitworth (May 16, 2009)

*Son, compared to a modern 44 magnum revolver*

those Confederate revolvers are toy pistols.  Those pistols usually didn't kill anyone.  It was the later gangrene and the pneumonia that would kill you.


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## HandgunHTR (May 16, 2009)

I guess I will be the voice of dissent here.

They can, and have killed deer.  I used an 1860 reproduction and an 1858 reproduction to kill deer.

The key is to limit yourself to 20 yards or less and to practice a bunch.  If you can hit a grapefruit with the first shot every time at 20 yards, then you can kill a deer with it.
If you can't do that or you don't trust yourself not to take the shot if it is longer than 20 yards, then you probably shouldn't take it into the woods.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 16, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> I guess I will be the voice of dissent here.
> 
> They can, and have killed deer.  I used an 1860 reproduction and an 1858 reproduction to kill deer.
> 
> ...




I appreciate everyones input. Learning something new each day - each thread/post....

I had seen like you said where folks had posted pics a long while back where they had killed deer with the Navy pistol, so thats why I asked.

I like the look of the ruger as well - wonder if you can put a scope on them?? For the price I hope so...


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## dadsbuckshot (May 16, 2009)

speaking of the Ruger - since it has a better payload etc...

Does anyone have any pics or hunt stories about using one? Whats the largest game that your Ruger BP revolver has taken?

I like the thought of getting a BP pistol, just need some direction and input...


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## hawgrider1200 (May 16, 2009)

Since the frame is a lot like a Blackhawk I imagine you could mount a scope on one. I'd limit my range with one to about 50 yds though. I have not hunted with one as I just acquired mine but they sure shoot good.


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## dertiedawg (May 16, 2009)

If you plan to hunt with a blackpowder pistol, the Thompson Center Encore Pistol with the 209 x 50 barrel is the way to go.  I hope to have mine by primitive weapons season.  Brand new they go for approximately $600+, but once you have it you can get any caliber barrel for less than $300 (they are interchangeable).


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## tv_racin_fan (May 17, 2009)

Hawg sir I wouldn't try with an 1860 or in fact anything without the top strap because I don't believe they can support the amount of powder needed to generate the energy I would want to use. I intend to kill something with an 1858 and a Ruger Old Army if given the chance.  I just received a lee Loader in 357, I intend to load myself some black powder rounds just because.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 17, 2009)

dertiedawg said:


> If you plan to hunt with a blackpowder pistol, the Thompson Center Encore Pistol with the 209 x 50 barrel is the way to go.  I hope to have mine by primitive weapons season.  Brand new they go for approximately $600+, but once you have it you can get any caliber barrel for less than $300 (they are interchangeable).



I have an encore, but I can not find the 209x50 pistol barrel to save my life...


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## Coastie (May 17, 2009)

Check with your local GW before hunting anything with a cap and ball pistol. While common sense says it should be legal, the regulations say "ANY MUZZLE LOADING FIREARM" cap and ball pistols are not technically muzzle loaders.


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## dertiedawg (May 17, 2009)

They ARE legal, I have confirmed this with the Game Management Office... these statements are exactly why I have requested from the DNR that they update the regulations guide to be more specific, lets see what they say.  See my post under http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=348350


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## shortround1 (May 17, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> I appreciate everyones input. Learning something new each day - each thread/post....
> 
> I had seen like you said where folks had posted pics a long while back where they had killed deer with the Navy pistol, so thats why I asked.
> 
> I like the look of the ruger as well - wonder if you can put a scope on them?? For the price I hope so...


Why in this world of great firearms would someone use a old navy black powder hand gun . The thought is ruined knowing a scope could be mounted. get a rifle and take home some meat!


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## tv_racin_fan (May 17, 2009)

Why in this world of great firearms wouldn't someone want the challenge of bringing home meat taken with such a firearm?

I figure a 200 grain RNFP driven just as hard as I can drive it out of my Ruger Old Army ought to do the job at short range. I'm hoping that same projectile driven as hard as I can out of a Remington 1858 clone will do the job also. I might step down to a 180 grain projectile...


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## dadsbuckshot (May 17, 2009)

shortround1 said:


> Why in this world of great firearms would someone use a old navy black powder hand gun . The thought is ruined knowing a scope could be mounted. get a rifle and take home some meat!



BECAUSE I CAN!!!!! The Ruger Old Army is a great firearm, and since I have done my research I think I may just get me one.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 17, 2009)

tv_racin_fan said:


> Why in this world of great firearms wouldn't someone want the challenge of bringing home meat taken with such a firearm?
> 
> I figure a 200 grain RNFP driven just as hard as I can drive it out of my Ruger Old Army ought to do the job at short range. I'm hoping that same projectile driven as hard as I can out of a Remington 1858 clone will do the job also. I might step down to a 180 grain projectile...



Have you used the .45colt conversion cylinder in your Ruger Old Army? I have seen them advertised and if I could get a 2 for 1 gun that would be interesting...


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## hawgrider1200 (May 17, 2009)

*BP handgun for hunting*



shortround1 said:


> Why in this world of great firearms would someone use a old navy black powder hand gun . The thought is ruined knowing a scope could be mounted. get a rifle and take home some meat!



I would not try a Colt replica 4 deer hunting. No backstrap on the frame means not enough strength to hold up to heavy loads of fffg. The man was talking about mounting a scope on the Ruger Old Army. Not needed in my opinion, but to each his own. Using a black powder gun of any description is a challenge, in my mind it is a lot like doing it the way some of my ancestors would have. Sure u can take a 30-06 to the woods and kill a deer from 500 yds away, but for a real challenge take a bow and arrow and wait for one to walk within 30 yds. Now that's a challenge, the same is true with a muzzleloader u must wait until u get a deer up close and personal at least 100 yds. Then if u use a handgun closer and if ur using BP handgun you'd be best served and more likely to kill humanely at archery type distances. I know some folks don't understand that logic, but we are all different. That's what keeps the world from being a boring place.


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## HandgunHTR (May 17, 2009)

You don't have max out a cap and ball revolver in order to kill a deer.







This one was killed with a .44 caliber round ball over 30 grains of FFFg and a wad between them.

That will generate just a little less than .44 Special energy.


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## runs with scissors (May 17, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> You don't have max out a cap and ball revolver in order to kill a deer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Its where you put the bullet!!!!(or in your case the ball)

Nice Kill!

Going back to the original question, make sure you use a pistol with the back strap.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 17, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> You don't have max out a cap and ball revolver in order to kill a deer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice kill!!! 

Thats what I am talking about - where did you shoot this buck (on the body)? And from what yardage?


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## hawgrider1200 (May 17, 2009)

*BP loading info?*



HandgunHTR said:


> You don't have max out a cap and ball revolver in order to kill a deer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



30 grains of fffg will be the maximum load for that little Colt replica the op was looking at. Where did you get your information for how much energy 30 grains of bp will put on a target? Personally I'd want as much energy as possible on the target to make the kill as humane as possible. I want an exit wound. I would not hunt with a 44 special when I could hunt with a 44 magnum. I would rather have 45 grains of fffg powder in my BP revolver than 30 grains any day thank you. If I coud stuff 50 grains of fffg in it I would.


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## HandgunHTR (May 17, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> 30 grains of fffg will be the maximum load for that little Colt replica the op was looking at. Where did you get your information for how much energy 30 grains of bp will put on a target? Personally I'd want as much energy as possible on the target to make the kill as humane as possible. I want an exit wound. I would not hunt with a 44 special when I could hunt with a 44 magnum. I would rather have 45 grains of fffg powder in my BP revolver than 30 grains any day thank you. If I coud stuff 50 grains of fffg in it I would.



30 grains of FFFg is all you need.

I got my information from a chronograph and some basic math.

Humane kills come from bullet placement, not the amount of energy the bullet is carrying when it hits the target.  A hit to the vitals by a bullet going 800fps will kill more humanely than a hit to the haunch with a bullet going 2000fps.

I would rather hunt with a gun that I know I can make the best possible shot.  I know way too many people who think that they need to shoot a big-bad super mag handgun, but can't hit a dang thing with them because they have such a bad flinch or are gripping so tight they are cutting off the blood to their fingers.

Use the gun that you can shoot accurately and you won't have a problem killing deer.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 17, 2009)

Thank you to everyone for the info and PMs...


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## hawgrider1200 (May 17, 2009)

*black powder handgun hunting*



HandgunHTR said:


> 30 grains of FFFg is all you need.
> 
> I got my information from a chronograph and some basic math.
> 
> Humane kills come from bullet placement, not the amount of energy the bullet is carrying when it hits the target.  A hit to the vitals by a bullet going 800fps will kill more humanely than a hit to the haunch with a bullet going 2000fps.


 this is true, however a bullet going 2000 fps is going to have much more impact and create much more hydrostatic shock than a bullet going 800fps. Hydrostatic shock is what kills. So a well placed in the vitals shot with a bullet traveling 2000 fps will result in a wound channel that will kill the animal more humanely. I have tracked deer for 50 to 100 yds that had both lungs turned to mush and a hole in the heart. If one does not get a good exit wound one might lose such an animal. . 





HandgunHTR said:


> I would rather hunt with a gun that I know I can make the best possible shot.  I know way too many people who think that they need to shoot a big-bad super mag handgun, but can't hit a dang thing with them because they have such a bad flinch or are gripping so tight they are cutting off the blood to their fingers. .


 What about those of us that can shoot a big bad handgun? U know there are some that can shoot them accurately?


HandgunHTR said:


> Use the gun that you can shoot accurately and you won't have a problem killing deer.


 Who ever said anyone was having  a problem killing deer? I believe we were simply trying to advise a fellow who might become a black powder enthusiast. U can disagree with our philosophy about loading for the most humane kills without coming on here and pointing fingers and finding fault can't you?


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## dertiedawg (May 18, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Who ever said anyone was having  a problem killing deer? I believe we were simply trying to advise a fellow who might become a black powder enthusiast. U can disagree with our philosophy about loading for the most humane kills without coming on here and pointing fingers and finding fault can't you?



Amen brother!!



shortround1 said:


> Why in this world of great firearms would someone use a old navy black powder hand gun . The thought is ruined knowing a scope could be mounted. get a rifle and take home some meat!



My father is gettin old and can no longer shoot with iron sights.  He'd put a scope on a stick if he had to aim it before swingin it.


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## HandgunHTR (May 18, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> U can disagree with our philosophy about loading for the most humane kills without coming on here and pointing fingers and finding fault can't you?



If you could point out where I pointed fingers or found fault, I would appreciate it greatly.

All I did was voice my opinion.  If you feel like I am persecuting you then it isn't I who has a problem.

As for the comment about big-bad handguns, once again, I was not signaling out anyone in particular.  I was just pointing out something that I have seen from my experience.  And believe me, I shoot some heavy recoiling handguns.

However, I will issue a challenge to all (again).  
Come out and shoot silhouette with me on the 4th Saturday of the month in Lincolnton, GA.  That way you can show me just how wrong I am.


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## holton27596 (May 18, 2009)

Try a walker dragoon, then you can get 50 grains of powder in it.


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## LOVEMYLABXS (May 18, 2009)

Just a quick question on the round ball dia. needed for the Ruger BP pistol. I have notice that 44 cal round balls come in several sizes/dia. what dia does the Ruger take?


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## tv_racin_fan (May 18, 2009)

The Ruger asks for .457 round ball according to the manual.

I'm not trying to say that someone couldn't kill deer with a BP revolver or in fact any BP revolver. I'm saying I wouldn't attempt to hunt with just any BP revolver. I have or gave my son a Pietta 1858 Remington clone that I hope one of us can take a deer with. I figure to load it about as heavy as we can stand it which is over 30grains FFFg and give it a try. I'm intending on trying it with something other than round ball. I also intend to give it a try with my Ruger Old Army.

I surely wouldn't try it with a brass framed revolver. I killed the one I had by loading it heavy.


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## Marlin_444 (May 23, 2009)

Depends on what you shoot... 






ASM Colt Walker at 50 Yards...






50 Grains Powder, .454 Ball, Disk, BoreButter, #11 Pinched at 50 Yards...

If you go with a Pickett Bullet...  Make sure you load them Point Side up...  

Ron


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## EMC-GUN (May 23, 2009)

Marlin_444 said:


> Depends on what you shoot...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is some outstanding shooting!!! That's a jaw dropper for an iron sighted modern revolver, let alone a cap and ball revolver!


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## EMC-GUN (May 23, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> 30 grains of FFFg is all you need.
> 
> I got my information from a chronograph and some basic math.
> 
> ...



I couldn't have said it better myself! So many folks quote the ammo company's claims of velocity and energy (which are often not real world). They tout how bad or how much "knock down" power their gee wiz super dooper loudenboomer magnum has, and if you showed them a chronograph they would stare in disbelief and not even know what it was.


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## shortround1 (May 23, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> BECAUSE I CAN!!!!! The Ruger Old Army is a great firearm, and since I have done my research I think I may just get me one.


i would bet my next paycheck it doesn't come close to handgun legality as far as fps or fpds of energy, remember you need special loads to make a .357 magnum legal.if you want a challenge, take up bowhunting or flintlock rifles.


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## runs with scissors (May 23, 2009)

shortround1 said:


> i would bet my next paycheck it doesn't come close to handgun legality as far as fps or fpds of energy, remember you need special loads to make a .357 magnum legal.if you want a challenge, take up bowhunting or flintlock rifles.



I believe the DNR considers it a muzzleloader. The way the regulations read, they use the words "Modern Firearms" and "Muzzleloading Firearms", so it is legal. They did away with the FPS regulation a few years ago.


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## tv_racin_fan (May 24, 2009)

I ordered up another ROA! Now to find a couple of bullets to try out...


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## shortround1 (May 24, 2009)

different strokes for different folks, that is what makes the campfire so interesting! on the other hand i would just as soon as drop a large rock on one.


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## Twenty five ought six (May 24, 2009)

> i would bet my next paycheck it doesn't come close to handgun legality as far as fps or fpds of energy, remember you need special loads to make a .357 magnum legal



I hate to jump into the middle of a good urinating contest,  but for something like 10 years now, any center fire pistol has been legal for deer hunting.  Advisable, no; legal, yes.

It pays to actually read the regs once a decade or so, whether you think you need to or not.


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## Marlin_444 (May 25, 2009)

shortround1 said:


> different strokes for different folks, that is what makes the campfire so interesting! on the other hand i would just as soon as drop a large rock on one.




What ever it takes to put the mount on the wall and the meat in the freezer...  

Smoke'm if you got'm...  

Ron


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## EMC-GUN (May 25, 2009)

I have one of the import cap and ball solid frames with the 10 in. barrel and adjustable sights on it. I may have to go out this year with it now!


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## Marlin_444 (May 25, 2009)

Sounds like the challange is on...  The Handgun Challenge just split into 1.  Modern 2.  Black Powder...  

Mods (Handgunner & Pigmy), can we get a AIGHT???

Ron


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## dertiedawg (May 26, 2009)

Aight!!!


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## hawgrider1200 (May 26, 2009)

*what would that prove anyhow?*



HandgunHTR said:


> If you could point out where I pointed fingers or found fault, I would appreciate it greatly.
> 
> All I did was voice my opinion.  If you feel like I am persecuting you then it isn't I who has a problem.
> 
> ...



just exactly what does silhouette shooting have to do with actually hunting deer with a handgun? They shoot silouettes in CAS with light little loads that I wouldn't use to hunt deer. I can not see where just because one has trained themselves to shoot light loads to hit just so on a steel plate has to do with the humane harvesting of game animals.


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## HandgunHTR (May 26, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> just exactly what does silhouette shooting have to do with actually hunting deer with a handgun? They shoot silouettes in CAS with light little loads that I wouldn't use to hunt deer. I can not see where just because one has trained themselves to shoot light loads to hit just so on a steel plate has to do with the humane harvesting of game animals.



CASS is for weenies.

I shoot IHMSA.

Where you have to hit a target about half the size of a deer with a handgun at 200 meters with no artificial rest and iron sights.  The weight of the target is around 70 lbs.

Oh, and it has to fall down.

Before you call me out, you better get your facts straight.

You didn't answer my question either.


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## dertiedawg (May 26, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> just exactly what does silhouette shooting have to do with actually hunting deer with a handgun? They shoot silouettes in CAS with light little loads that I wouldn't use to hunt deer. I can not see where just because one has trained themselves to shoot light loads to hit just so on a steel plate has to do with the humane harvesting of game animals.



Hawgrider, Im not trying to get in the middle here but I believe he was talking about shooting your hunting loads at the silhouettes and his statement went like this:

"I would rather hunt with a gun that I know I can make the best possible shot. I know way too many people who think that they need to shoot a big-bad super mag handgun, but can't hit a dang thing with them because they have such a bad flinch or are gripping so tight they are cutting off the blood to their fingers.

Use the gun that you can shoot accurately and you won't have a problem killing deer. "

and then he stated:

"However, I will issue a challenge to all (again). 
Come out and shoot silhouette with me on the 4th Saturday of the month in Lincolnton, GA. That way you can show me just how wrong I am."

HandgunHTR, I think I might like to take you up on that just for kicks (I'm not a competition shooter).  I have to check and see if I can get away that weekend, your several hours away, can I shoot 44 mag at the silhouettes!
Vin


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## HandgunHTR (May 26, 2009)

Vin,

Not only can you, you pretty much have to.

For IHMSA Big Bore the course of fire is 5 shots in 2 minutes at 50 yards (chickens) a one minute break and then 5 more shots at the chickens.  Then you repeat the course of fire at 100 yards (pigs), 150 (turkeys) and then 200 yards (rams).  You can do this Standing or Freestyle.  Either style requires that you shoot without the aid of an artifical rest.

For more information check out www.ihmsa.org or http://www.knology.net/~gaihmsa/

Oh, and I was incorrect above.  We shoot Big Bore in Lincolnton on the 3rd Saturday of the month.  We shoot Small Bore (.22LR) and Field Pistol (most handgun calibers) on the 1st Saturday of the month in Gainesville.  
For SB and FP the targets are smaller and the ranges are 25, 50, 75, and 100.

I will tell you this.  If you shoot IHMSA for a while you will have much more confidence in your ability to hunt with your pistol.


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## hawgrider1200 (May 26, 2009)

*european sillyettes?*



dertiedawg said:


> Hawgrider, Im not trying to get in the middle here but I believe he was talking about shooting your hunting loads at the silhouettes and his statement went like this:
> 
> "I would rather hunt with a gun that I know I can make the best possible shot. I know way too many people who think that they need to shoot a big-bad super mag handgun, but can't hit a dang thing with them because they have such a bad flinch or are gripping so tight they are cutting off the blood to their fingers.
> 
> ...


U just get right in the middle of it ifn u want to. He said sumthing about me calling him out. I wish I knew when I had done that. I know I ain't fixing to try to shoot my BP revolver at no sillyettes 200 meters downrange. How far is that in feet? I'm American I don't know from meters? Now Ifn I had called a fellow out I know it would not be at his home range, It'd be at my home range. Of course my home range is so crowded on weekends u can't get in there. I do my shooting during the week. I do need to go more often. Do folks consider the 44mag a big bad pistol nowdays with the 460S&W and 500 S&W being out now?
Ive been shooting a 44 mag for years but I think u gotta aim about a foot high at 100yds. What is that in meters?


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## HandgunHTR (May 27, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> U just get right in the middle of it ifn u want to. He said sumthing about me calling him out. I wish I knew when I had done that. I know I ain't fixing to try to shoot my BP revolver at no sillyettes 200 meters downrange. How far is that in feet? I'm American I don't know from meters? Now Ifn I had called a fellow out I know it would not be at his home range, It'd be at my home range. Of course my home range is so crowded on weekends u can't get in there. I do my shooting during the week. I do need to go more often. Do folks consider the 44mag a big bad pistol nowdays with the 460S&W and 500 S&W being out now?
> Ive been shooting a 44 mag for years but I think u gotta aim about a foot high at 100yds. What is that in meters?



Your comments are doing nothing to improve your intellectual standing in this community.  

For all intents and purposes, when speaking of shooting distances, meters and yards are basically the same thing.  If you didn't bother to do the research, the "I" in IHMSA stands for International.  Due to the fact that more countries us the metric system we measure our distances in meters.   However, if a club has their berms at yardage not meters, that is still fine.

As for when you called me out, you posted:


> U can disagree with our philosophy about loading for the most humane kills without coming on here and pointing fingers and finding fault can't you?



and


> just exactly what does silhouette shooting have to do with actually hunting deer with a handgun?



Both of which are call outs to answer specific questions, which I did BTW.  So, my statement still stands.  If you are going to call someone out, make sure you have your facts straight.

Lincolnton is not my "home range" it is just a range that I shoot Big Bore IHMSA at, just as Gainseville is where I shoot my SB and FP IHMSA at.  I do most of my practicing at Creekside or at Little River Gun Club.
For the record, I shoot the same no matter where I am.  The fact that you think that "home field advantage" has any bearing on shooting skills says quite a bit.

Lastly, if you had any concept of ballistics, which from your posts, it is obvious that you don't, you would know that you don't have to hold a foot over the target to hit it at 100 meters or 100 yards.  You do know they make adjustable sights, don't you?  With my .44 mag load I only have to raise the rear sight 4 clicks to be on at 100 yards.  That equals a change of POI of about 3.5".

It is obvious from your posts that you are not going to listen to anything that I write, so I don't know why I am wasting my time replying.

For anyone else that wants to talk with me about using blackpowder handguns for hunting or to talk about IHMSA, feel free to PM me as I am done with this thread.


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## boneboy96 (May 27, 2009)

very informative thread...


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## Handgunner (May 29, 2009)

Marlin_444 said:


> Sounds like the challange is on...  The Handgun Challenge just split into 1.  Modern 2.  Black Powder...
> 
> Mods (Handgunner & Pigmy), can we get a AIGHT???
> 
> Ron


It might be too much trouble to make two separate competitions, but we may add a bonus for deer taken with a black powder pistol.  Just remind me of that when it gets Handgun Challenge time!


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## Marlin_444 (May 29, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> Anyone hunt with one of the ol' school black powder .44 revolvers?
> 
> I was thinking of getting one to hunt with, but am a leary of its range and effectivness on deer etc...
> 
> ...




Brass Frames are not as sturdy as Steal...  

Ron


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## Marlin_444 (May 29, 2009)

Handgunner said:


> It might be too much trouble to make two separate competitions, but we may add a bonus for deer taken with a black powder pistol.  Just remind me of that when it gets Handgun Challenge time!



COOL!!!

Ron


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## hawgrider1200 (Jun 3, 2009)

*Walker*



holton27596 said:


> Try a walker dragoon, then you can get 50 grains of powder in it.



If I could find one of the Walkers that Colt retooled to manufacture for a reasonable price, that the loading lever woud stay in place when I shot it, I would buy one. Since all the Colt Walkers I've seen have been overpriced and I wanted a handgun manufactured in the USA, I opted for the Ruger Old Army. I could probably stuff 50 grains of fffg into it if I compacted the powder after loading 30 grains and then loaded 20 more. I haven't got a chronograph to see if it makes that much more diference. Maybe I oughta try the old mountain man trick of shooting over snow, when u get a load that leaves soot on the snow u are wasting powder says they.


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## Marlin_444 (Jun 4, 2009)

I'd just stick with the ROA and be doen with it


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## hawgrider1200 (Jun 4, 2009)

*Roa*

Yeah, I sure thought about compressing the powder last time I loaded up. U can get about the same amount of BP in a 44 mag cartridge case too. I did it just for grins and stuff. I'm gonna shoot some of those one of these days to see how I like it.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 5, 2009)

How is that Cabela's replica for just shooting and plinking (for the price-I know it's not gonna be a top-of-the-line work of art)? I thought about buying one before. I've got a couple percussion and flintlock rifles that I shoot a lot and hunt with, but never owned a BP pistol.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 5, 2009)

hawgrider I have been thinking about getting one of those 45colt conversion cylinders for a ROA and shooting black powder cartridges just because. I have some instructions for making my own and know where to find some ingredients so one of these days I'm gonna make my own powder just so I know how if the need arises. I have that can of cartridge powder and soon as I find some primers and some bullets I'm going to make some up for 357 to shoot thru my GP100 for the fun of it.

NCHillbilly I can't say much about those Cabela's revolvers. I got myself one of the Navy Arms brass framed revolvers back in the 70's and ruined it by shooting max loads. I would opt for an 1858 remington clone (in fact I did but I gave that to my son). Even better would be a Ruger Old Army but they are a bit more expensive.

Speaking of the Ruger Old Army my second one just came on the UPS truck. WOOT WOOT!!! A little cleaning and some tuning and back to the range we go...


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## hawgrider1200 (Jun 5, 2009)

*black powder pistols*



NCHillbilly said:


> How is that Cabela's replica for just shooting and plinking (for the price-I know it's not gonna be a top-of-the-line work of art)? I thought about buying one before. I've got a couple percussion and flintlock rifles that I shoot a lot and hunt with, but never owned a BP pistol.


I have a couple of the pietta remington replicas, they are fun to shoot. I suspect that the Capelas replica u speak of would be about the same. I have heard that Uberti makes some fair replicas. I'm not sure who manufactures the Capela's replicas. If I were you I'd just go ahead a buy the Ruger Old Army and be done with it.  Made in USA from good steel. U can't go wrong. Ruger discontinued that line, so you'd have to get a used one. I found a supposedly NIB Ruger Old Army on the Gun's America web site. I will sell it if I can get what I paid for it.


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## Marlin_444 (Jun 6, 2009)

*Selling my ASM Colt Walker*

Here is your opportunity...  

Just shot it today... 2" groups at 25 Yards...  

SA-WHEAT!!!

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=358858&highlight=colt+walker







Ron


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## ejs1980 (Jun 7, 2009)

Ron thats a nice pistol. I might would be interested in it but I still havent shot that 1860 cva I got from you a year ago. 

To those of you talking about stuffing 40 grains of fffg in a 1858 be careful when shooting and also be careful about reccomending it to other people. I have a 1858 and 1860 replica. Both with steel frames and backstraps. Both list 30 grains max for round ball and 25 max for conicals. If your stuffing 40 grains behind a conical your either doubling the pressure reccomended by the manufacture or having alot of powder thats not getting burned. Round balls over 30 grains will do the job at extremely close range. They penetrate quite well because they don't expand. Theres no benefit in shooting conicals in a 1858 style revolver because your not generating enough velocity to get good expansion and any you do get will decrease penetration which you need as much as you can get in these style pistols. Your accuracy will also suffer with conicals because theres no way to ensure loading straight into the cylinder which means your going to cut one side or the other as it enters the barrel. That will open your groups up alot since it will get cut in a diffirent spot every time. A round ball is straight no matter how you turn it. 

So if you have a 1858 style revolver and want to kill deer with it do your research and practice alot. If your interested in buying a cap and ball revolver to deer hunt with get a walker like Marlin444 has for sale above.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 13, 2009)

ejs I am not suggesting anyone do anything. I am simply stating what I intend to do or wouldn't do. Oh and by the way I just looked online at the manual for my Pietta 1858 Remington and the maximum load according to Pietta is 15 grains FFFg.


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## HandgunHTR (Jun 13, 2009)

tv_racin_fan said:


> Oh and by the way I just looked online at the manual for my Pietta 1858 Remington and the maximum load according to Pietta is 15 grains FFFg.



Could you post a link for that?


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 13, 2009)

I sure can sir.

http://www.pietta.us/pdf/Manuale_Avancarica_ENG.pdf

Page 20 has the loading data.

I tried to locate a Uberti manual for comparison.


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## HandgunHTR (Jun 13, 2009)

tv_racin_fan said:


> I sure can sir.
> 
> http://www.pietta.us/pdf/Manuale_Avancarica_ENG.pdf
> 
> ...



Thank you very much.

I find this information very troubling.  My 1858 is a Pietta made replica that I got from Cabelas.  In the manual that came with it it has a max load of 30 grains of FFFg with a .454 ball.

I wonder why they are so much different.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 14, 2009)

You are very welcome sir.

I haven't a clue sir. Law suit itis perhaps? I know some people have managed to blow up the CVA rifles and claim it was a design flaw...

Way back in the late 70's I got a Navy Arms revolver. Brass framed and I don't recall the exact loading data but it seemed to me that 30 grains was max. I ruined that handgun by loading it to the max and or hanging off the loading lever to get it loaded. I didn't even burn up a full box of balls... Thus you can understand why I would not attempt to load a brass framed revolver and hunt with it.

Sometime in the early 80's I built from kit a CVA rifle. I shot a proof load of about 300 grains of powder so I was never worried about that firearm when I loaded it and it seems to me the max load in the manual was 150 grains. The latest manual lists 100 grains as the max load and 50 as the minimum, I know I shot many a target with 30 grains in that rifle.

I like the manual for the Ruger Old Army. It tells me I can load as much of whatever grade of black powder or substitute as I can and still get a projectile in the cylinder. Now I full well understand that with a 7 1/2" barrel I probably wont burn all that and if it does it wont be the most accurate load BUT it is nice to know I can do that if I want.


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## hawgrider1200 (Jun 14, 2009)

Ruger makes good stuff don't they?


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 14, 2009)

Well... I didn;t shoot very well with it but the guy at the range I let shoot it shot a very nice little group with the first one I got. I haven't shot the second one yet but I intend to do so pretty soon. I want to be ready come hunting season and I best get on the ball now...


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## HandgunHTR (Jun 14, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Ruger makes good stuff don't they?



As long as you don't mind sending it back to them every once in a while so they can recall it.


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## Marlin_444 (Jun 16, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> As long as you don't mind sending it back to them every once in a while so they can recall it.



Only the new Plastic Junk... Or the Lawyer FIX'ns...

Ron


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## OleSlingShot (Jul 7, 2009)

Where are you shooting silhouettes at?  Normans Wreckage?


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## HandgunHTR (Jul 7, 2009)

Yep.


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