# Interrracial Marriage poll



## ambush80 (Apr 16, 2016)

There are several interracial marriages in my family but none between black and white.


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## gemcgrew (Apr 16, 2016)

Ambush, the poll is worded in such a way that precludes a Christian from making a selection, unless they are in an interracial marriage.


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## ambush80 (Apr 16, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> Ambush, the poll is worded in such a way that precludes a Christian from making a selection, unless they are in an interracial marriage.



 i get your point.  I'll try to think of a more inclusive question.


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## ambush80 (Apr 18, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> Ambush, the poll is worded in such a way that precludes a Christian from making a selection, unless they are in an interracial marriage.



Is it because a Christian can't possibly know God's feelings on the subject with certainty?  Would it be better if the question were phrased "I think the Bible says........."?


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## gemcgrew (Apr 18, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Is it because a Christian can't possibly know God's feelings on the subject with certainty?


No


ambush80 said:


> Would it be better if the question were phrased "I think the Bible says........."?


Not necessarily. I am fascinated at how many professing Christians were able to make a selection. Whereas I was unable to based upon the wording.


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## formula1 (Apr 19, 2016)

*re:*

Easy to make a choice when one states 'God loves them', which is always true of all people regardless their state.  And really, race(for the Christian) should not come into question, only whether a couple are both believers.  And even that may not matter as God's grace has done great things in couples who started out 'unequally yoked' as scripture would say.  So for me at least the question was easy.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> Not necessarily. I am fascinated at how many professing Christians were able to make a selection. Whereas I was unable to based upon the wording.



I'm curious as to why you weren't able to make a selection.  Maybe my reading comprehension skills are not as acute as yours   But to me, it seemed like a simple question..poll.  Sure, there are bits of multiple answers that could be put together, but for the sake of a Woody's poll.


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## ambush80 (Apr 19, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> No
> 
> Not necessarily. I am fascinated at how many professing Christians were able to make a selection. Whereas I was unable to based upon the wording.





rjcruiser said:


> I'm curious as to why you weren't able to make a selection.  Maybe my reading comprehension skills are not as acute as yours   But to me, it seemed like a simple question..poll.  Sure, there are bits of multiple answers that could be put together, but for the sake of a Woody's poll.



I'm curious as well.  Why are the questions worded in such a way as to make them unanswerable?


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## ambush80 (Apr 19, 2016)

Can anyone speculate on what the results of a poll like this might have looked like in 1950?


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 19, 2016)

I'll speculate for Gem;

"God doesn't necessarily love all interracial couples. 
It's not a given. God only loves one or both of the elected individuals of the interracial couple."


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## NCHillbilly (Apr 19, 2016)

Most of the native stock of western NC families are a product of interracial marriages between white men and Cherokee women. 

Growing up here in the early 70s, nobody thought a thing about someone marrying an Asian, American Indian, or Mexican, etc., but black/white marriages were frowned upon heavily. I don't know why the difference, always seemed strange to me.

As for the poll, I wouldn't presume to know what God's opinion about anything is. You'll have to ask him.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Can anyone speculate on what the results of a poll like this might have looked like in 1950?



I think it depends heavily on the part of the country that the poll would be taken.

But it isn't just a black/white thing.  I think a huge piece is due to heritage and cultural differences.



NCHillbilly said:


> As for the poll, I wouldn't presume to know what God's opinion about anything is. You'll have to ask him.



You know...there's this thing called the Bible.  Keeps you from having to "presume" what God's opinion is.


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## NCHillbilly (Apr 19, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> I think it depends heavily on the part of the country that the poll would be taken.
> 
> But it isn't just a black/white thing.  I think a huge piece is due to heritage and cultural differences.
> 
> ...



You know, I kind of doubt that God wrote the Bible personally for some reason. It was written by lots of different humans who all presumed to know God's opinion. Apparently God's opinion is not always very clear or consistent, either, from doing a bunch of reading in the Bible over the years.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> Apparently God's opinion is not always very clear or consistent, either, from doing a bunch of reading in the Bible over the years.





Not to derail the OP...so I'll leave it at that.


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## swampstalker24 (Apr 19, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> I think it depends heavily on the part of the country that the poll would be taken.
> 
> But it isn't just a black/white thing.  I think a huge piece is due to heritage and cultural differences.
> 
> ...



So why don't you enlighten us on god's opinion of interracial marriage?


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 19, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> You know, I kind of doubt that God wrote the Bible personally for some reason. It was written by lots of different humans who all presumed to know God's opinion. Apparently God's opinion is not always very clear or consistent, either, from doing a bunch of reading in the Bible over the years.



That's a shot in the double bull ring.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 19, 2016)

swampstalker24 said:


> So why don't you enlighten us on god's opinion of interracial marriage?



What good would it do?  After all, according to you, my opinion is worth just as much as god's, right?

Ahh...the joys of bringing religious viewpoints and polls into a non-religious forum.  Like mixing oil and water.


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## ryanh487 (Apr 19, 2016)

I have no problem with people who want to marry interracially.

I do have a weird personal thing about not finding other races attractive at all, and I have no interest in dating a white woman that dates black men.  I don't dislike them as people, it's just a deal breaker for romance.


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## gemcgrew (Apr 19, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I'm curious as well.  Why are the questions worded in such a way as to make them unanswerable?


For me, it is a matter of inference, although not ultimately. I believe that some of the previous posts are showing this.


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## ambush80 (Apr 19, 2016)

ryanh487 said:


> I have no problem with people who want to marry interracially.
> 
> I do have a weird personal thing about not finding other races attractive at all, and I have no interest in dating a white woman that dates black men.  I don't dislike them as people, it's just a deal breaker for romance.




That's interesting.  Even if the woman is very pretty?


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## 660griz (Apr 19, 2016)

Looked at several Christian sites on the subject. Seems to be the consensus. Although, I couldn't tell if any of them were from the South. 

"Moses' wife was of another race and in Numbers 12:1-15 Aaron and Miriam were punished for criticizing this interracial marriage.
The Bible is clear that when both parties are believers (equally yoked), interracial marriage is not wrong."


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## ambush80 (Apr 19, 2016)

660griz said:


> Looked at several Christian sites on the subject. Seems to be the consensus. Although, I couldn't tell if any of them were from the South.
> 
> "Moses' wife was of another race and in Numbers 12:1-15 Aaron and Miriam were punished for criticizing this interracial marriage.
> The Bible is clear that when both parties are believers (equally yoked), interracial marriage is not wrong."



Nice work.  So next time I go to Forrest MS I can let them know.


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## swampstalker24 (Apr 19, 2016)

On a related note, what do you guys think about short fellas marrying really, really tall women?


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## WaltL1 (Apr 19, 2016)

Somewhat off topic but related.
As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.


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## bullethead (Apr 19, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Somewhat off topic but related.
> As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
> Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.


Amen to that!


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## drippin' rock (Apr 19, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Somewhat off topic but related.
> As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
> Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.



Well, we all know Catholics aren't REAL Christians.


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## 660griz (Apr 20, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Somewhat off topic but related.
> As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
> Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.



Well, God and Catholics are totally different.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 20, 2016)

Off-topic....apologies to the OP.




WaltL1 said:


> Somewhat off topic but related.
> As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
> Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.



Why would you want to marry someone who has different religious views than you do?  Marriage is already tough enough.

And what does "as long as you believe" mean?



drippin' rock said:


> Well, we all know Catholics aren't REAL Christians.



Why do you say that?  

What does it mean to be a Christian?  How is that different than being a Catholic?

Ultimately, it lies in how one obtains justification for their sins, right?  How one obtains eternity with God?  So....is the answer to that question the same for Protestants and Catholics?  Is it the same for the Christians as described in the NT and those that claim to be Christians today?


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## Huntinfool (Apr 20, 2016)

What's interesting to me is that four of the five possible answers speak to what God thinks....and this is in the Atheist/Agnostic section of the forum.  The poll is asking a question of people who believe that the first four possible answers are moot.  They can't use any of those answers because God does not exist (and thus doesn't have an opinion on the subject) and, unless they are actually in an inter-racial marriage, they can't choose ANY of the answers.

Why would you think you would get a sense of what the flying spaghetti monster likes or doesn't like in here?


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## Rich M (Apr 20, 2016)

The Bible talks about being unequally yoked and believers vs non-believers.  It does not talk about differing races of people.

Rahab the Prostitute, and Ruth professed belief in God and became children of God.  They also married and had kids.  Why do I mention Rahab & Ruth???  They are foreigners who professed faith and are in the direct lineage of Christ.

Interracial is not a big deal.  

Harder to hook people up from 2 churches - one has to convert.  LOL!


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## WaltL1 (Apr 20, 2016)

Huntinfool said:


> What's interesting to me is that four of the five possible answers speak to what God thinks....and this is in the Atheist/Agnostic section of the forum.  The poll is asking a question of people who believe that the first four possible answers are moot.  They can't use any of those answers because God does not exist (and thus doesn't have an opinion on the subject) and, unless they are actually in an inter-racial marriage, they can't choose ANY of the answers.
> 
> Why would you think you would get a sense of what the flying spaghetti monster likes or doesn't like in here?


Actually a non believer has access to the exact same information about what God "thinks" as a believer does. We don't have to believe it to repeat it.
What may differ is whatever is personally made up.


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## gemcgrew (Apr 20, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Somewhat off topic but related.
> As a Catholic I couldn't have a Catholic wedding as the woman I was marrying was a Baptist.
> Apparently "as long as you believe" is a load of crap.


Or the Catholics are very perceptive. 

You don't believe do you?


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## WaltL1 (Apr 21, 2016)

gemcgrew said:


> Or the Catholics are very perceptive.
> 
> You don't believe do you?


Is it perceptive if I smash your thumb with a hammer and then hand you a bandaid that I carry for just such an occasion?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 21, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> Off-topic....apologies to the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ryanh487 (Apr 21, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> That's interesting.  Even if the woman is very pretty?



If she was THAT pretty she probably wouldn't be talking to me in the first place


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## WaltL1 (Apr 21, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


>


Sorry I missed the part addressed to me.
While religious views may be different isn't belief in God supposed to be the priority? 
We didn't have a problem with it. Only religion did.  
And that's what I mean by "as long as you believe" being a load of crap. Look at some of the responses and even the results of the poll. It's even pointed out the Bible says nothing about interracial marriage. Should we pretend interracial marriage has always been fine with the denominations?
Reality is the rules are made up by the denomination despite what an individual may think God believes or even what the Bible does or doesn't say.


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## gemcgrew (Apr 21, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Is it perceptive if I smash your thumb with a hammer and then hand you a bandaid that I carry for just such an occasion?


Only in part.


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## Israel (Apr 22, 2016)

ryanh487 said:


> If she was THAT pretty she probably wouldn't be talking to me in the first place


I have seen the miraculous happen. I am the frog prince.


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## Israel (Apr 22, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Sorry I missed the part addressed to me.
> While religious views may be different isn't belief in God supposed to be the priority?
> We didn't have a problem with it. Only religion did.
> And that's what I mean by "as long as you believe" being a load of crap. Look at some of the responses and even the results of the poll. It's even pointed out the Bible says nothing about interracial marriage. Should we pretend interracial marriage has always been fine with the denominations?
> Reality is the rules are made up by the denomination despite what an individual may think God believes or even what the Bible does or doesn't say.



As one who has seen the inside of more than a few jail cells, preached from a dumpster after being deposited there by a few you mentioned (Walt), been headlocked and dragged from a meeting (by a group following a fellow whose claim to fame is preaching on grace), and been egged, and a few other instances of such,(none of which resulted in a drop of my own blood) I would have to say none (that I recall) was ever at the hands of professed atheists.
This neither testifies of my "innocence"...nor their culpability. But a man may have to learn a bit about navigating the religious jungle before he really learns how to be at home in, and with Christ. Alone.


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## formula1 (Apr 22, 2016)

*re:*



Israel said:


> But a man may have to learn a bit about navigating the religious jungle before he really learns how to be at home in, and with Christ. Alone.



This topic in a sense shows religion for years lied about certain relationships being right or wrong when in fact that view of scripture was twisted to promote a segregationist attitude. But it was never God's attitude.  We do this today too, choosing to line up on a side that we think God wants us to be on, rather than loving others with a pure heart as we must do in order to win some.  Faith in God cannot grow unless it is viewed as possible!  The fact that this forum exists is at the least some evidence that many believers have failed to purely show God's unending and perfect love!

Dare I say this, but religion is an enemy of Christ and has been since it nailed Him on the cross! I do think the atheist/agnostic crowd has this figured out better than most, only they might call religion the enemy.  Most just have difficulty leaping to what you so eloquently said, that is 'Christ Alone'.


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## bullethead (Apr 22, 2016)

formula1 said:


> This topic in a sense shows religion for years lied about certain relationships being right or wrong when in fact that view of scripture was twisted to promote a segregationist attitude. But it was never God's attitude.  We do this today too, choosing to line up on a side that we think God wants us to be on, rather than loving others with a pure heart as we must do in order to win some.  Faith in God cannot grow unless it is viewed as possible!  The fact that this forum exists is at the least some evidence that many believers have failed to purely show God's unending and perfect love!
> 
> Dare I say this, but religion is an enemy of Christ and has been since it nailed Him on the cross! I do think the atheist/agnostic crowd has this figured out better than most, only they might call religion the enemy.  Most just have difficulty leaping to what you so eloquently said, that is 'Christ Alone'.



Formula1, I applaud your honesty. Nice post


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## hummerpoo (Apr 22, 2016)

formula1 said:


> This topic in a sense shows religion for years lied about certain relationships being right or wrong when in fact that view of scripture was twisted to promote a segregationist attitude. But it was never God's attitude.  We do this today too, choosing to line up on a side that we think God wants us to be on, rather than loving others with a pure heart as we must do in order to win some.  Faith in God cannot grow unless it is viewed as possible!  The fact that this forum exists is at the least some evidence that many believers have failed to purely show God's unending and perfect love!
> 
> Dare I say this, but religion is an enemy of Christ and has been since it nailed Him on the cross! I do think the atheist/agnostic crowd has this figured out better than most, only they might call religion the enemy.  Most just have difficulty leaping to what you so eloquently said, that is 'Christ Alone'.



I do not know to whom you refer historically in your first sentence.  I do know that, when, a couple of days ago, I requested that, what I assume to be a related issue, not be discussed above, the refusal quickly filled two pages.  I don't understand the motive for that.  I do know that it provides fuel for the A&A.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 22, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> Sorry I missed the part addressed to me.
> While religious views may be different isn't belief in God supposed to be the priority?



Belief in God?  How vague is that?  Mind explaining to me what that means?



WaltL1 said:


> We didn't have a problem with it. Only religion did.
> And that's what I mean by "as long as you believe" being a load of crap.



"As long as you believe" is a load of crap....and if a church teaches that...it is a load of crap.



WaltL1 said:


> Should we pretend interracial marriage has always been fine with the denominations?



Can you show me where it wasn't?  I don't recall seeing that being pointed out in the Baptist confession of faith or Westminster Catechism.



WaltL1 said:


> Reality is the rules are made up by the denomination despite what an individual may think God believes or even what the Bible does or doesn't say.



No...rules are made up by the denomination based on what the Bible says.  They are then usually tossed to the side and individual churches then choose to believe what they want based on the community they are a part of.  If many churches went back to the principles they were founded on, we'd be in a much better position.  We wouldn't have churches promoting gay marriage, we wouldn't have churches promoting premarital sex, we wouldn't have churches promoting illicit relationships and we wouldn't have churches promoting a culture of hypocrisy.


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## JB0704 (Apr 22, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> Can you show me where it wasn't?  I don't recall seeing that being pointed out in the Baptist confession of faith or Westminster Catechism.



I grew up independent Baptist, and was led to believe such was an abomination, and that the races were the result of the tower of babel.......basically a curse.  Funny how such an attitude never considers that black was more likely the original race than white.  Either way, "God separated em for a reason" was oft repeated if memory serves me correctly.

I do not recall if there was ever more specific doctrine presented to support such an attitude, and there is a very good reason for that.


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## formula1 (Apr 22, 2016)

*re:*



hummerpoo said:


> I do not know to whom you refer historically in your first sentence.  I do know that, when, a couple of days ago, I requested that, what I assume to be a related issue, not be discussed above, the refusal quickly filled two pages.  I don't understand the motive for that.  I do know that it provides fuel for the A&A.



I don't know anything about what you might be referring to in this case.  Feel free to PM me to discuss if you like.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 22, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> Belief in God?  How vague is that?  Mind explaining to me what that means?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That you think belief in God is vague is interesting. What additional information do you need? Something like " according to fill in the blank belief in God means" ...

You literally need me to show you where interracial marriage wasn't supported by denominations throughout history???

It's also interesting how now it's the individual church's fault.
Something "bad" the fingers get pointed everywhere else.
Something "good " oh yes we are Christians united under God.
My point is simple and backed up by history and reality and I think that's where we are differing.


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## ambush80 (Apr 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> I grew up independent Baptist, and was led to believe such was an abomination, and that the races were the result of the tower of babel.......basically a curse.  Funny how such an attitude never considers that black was more likely the original race than white.  Either way, "God separated em for a reason" was oft repeated if memory serves me correctly.
> 
> I do not recall if there was ever more specific doctrine presented to support such an attitude, and there is a very good reason for that.



I did my Senior Year at Curtis Baptist HS in Augusta.  I remember the 'science' teacher referring to black people as carrying the "Mark of Ham".


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## Israel (Apr 22, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I did my Senior Year at Curtis Baptist HS in Augusta.  I remember the 'science' teacher referring to black people as carrying the "Mark of Ham".



I am going to guess that this is a point at which Hummer was alluding. OK, this guy taught at a school bearing a particular name...and I am going to guess may have, in some way shared that "identity". It's like shooting fish in a barrel to make the jump from a science teacher's opinion to then painting all who have ever, in whatever sense, had any affiliation with that "banner" name. 
It's easy to paint with a broad brush, we all know this. (And I am not saying you have Ambush...but by the "linking" one inclined to make a  case "against" is afforded an opportunity).
Now, if one were to post some articles of faith (I believe they may be called...those "things" that almost every denomination has established as their framework) and in such was something of the like supporting the science teachers profession...then perhaps it would behoove any who so identified to come clean..."I agree"...or..."I disagree" (Which obviously could/should/would have repercussions in his "standing"...so to speak.)
Vilification, it often appears, and that by association, seems a thing not too difficult for any of us.


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## Israel (Apr 22, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> That you think belief in God is vague is interesting. What additional information do you need? Something like " according to fill in the blank belief in God means" ...
> 
> You literally need me to show you where interracial marriage wasn't supported by denominations throughout history???
> 
> ...



I have no doubt you have seen that.
One might say it's as common as dirt. Among people. All people.
Folks getting all "tribal" around a certain benefit...but not so much willing to identify in the odious. To think this is not a trait endemic would be, in my sensing...a little naive.
That "it should not be" if honesty and justice are to be truly served in truth...is something it is far easier to simply verbally assent to, (or mock, when not seen as "professed")...than to abide in that integrity. 

And all I can say to that is "guilty as charged". 

I been both thieves...but a thief, nevertheless. Both the one mocking...and the one appealing for mercy. I am becoming fond of the one in the middle...who separates us.


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## ambush80 (Apr 23, 2016)

Israel said:


> I am going to guess that this is a point at which Hummer was alluding. OK, this guy taught at a school bearing a particular name...and I am going to guess may have, in some way shared that "identity". It's like shooting fish in a barrel to make the jump from a science teacher's opinion to then painting all who have ever, in whatever sense, had any affiliation with that "banner" name.
> It's easy to paint with a broad brush, we all know this. (And I am not saying you have Ambush...but by the "linking" one inclined to make a  case "against" is afforded an opportunity).
> Now, if one were to post some articles of faith (I believe they may be called...those "things" that almost every denomination has established as their framework) and in such was something of the like supporting the science teachers profession...then perhaps it would behoove any who so identified to come clean..."I agree"...or..."I disagree" (Which obviously could/should/would have repercussions in his "standing"...so to speak.)
> Vilification, it often appears, and that by association, seems a thing not too difficult for any of us.



The topic arose because I was having a discussion with a classmate (the son of the English teacher) about race.  He asked the 'Science' teacher to explain The Mark of Ham to me which he did in front of the whole class.  It appeared to be a well known 'fact' among the students and to those who had not heard it, it became fact as well.  

It's not an isolated incident in a small pocket of rural Georgia.  Read more about it at Vdare.com.


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## JB0704 (Apr 23, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Read more about it at Vdare.com.





.....and, it always amazes me some of the opinions expressed by that dude.  Befuddled is a better word.


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## Israel (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't doubt some, or even many have held to some sort of stuff. For almost all its existence a certain group officially/doctrinally held that position, refusing their coveted "priesthood" to some. I think they may have changed as either times or numbers required.

But, these all become straw men, do they not, if in wanting to vilify a book, or the Lord of whom it testifies, is not found to support such? So, men do horrid things with what they believe will best justify their evil intents. I've even heard "Origin of Species" implicated in quite a bit, and even Karl Marx might shake his head a bit when meeting Stalin or Mao. I'm even reasonably sure T. Jefferson might say of some "Those words don't mean what you think they mean"


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## ambush80 (Apr 23, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> .....and, it always amazes me some of the opinions expressed by that dude.  Befuddled is a better word.




I bet he and his ilk consider themselves to be strong Christians.  Others would say they're mistaken.  In a practical sense, what good is the title if not to give one's self a justification for belief that's beyond reproach?  How many times have you heard someone say about their interpretation of the Bible or any religious text "I could be wrong".


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## Israel (Apr 23, 2016)

I've heard of "strong christians", not sure what they look like. 


I'm far more attentive now to those whose only plea seems "Lord, make me too weak to betray you..."


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## rjcruiser (Apr 25, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> That you think belief in God is vague is interesting. What additional information do you need? Something like " according to fill in the blank belief in God means" ...



Why is it interesting?  There are 1000s of gods...so, for one to say "I believe" or "I believe in God/god" is super vague.  I can bring you 10 people that say they "believe" and none of them believe the same thing.




WaltL1 said:


> You literally need me to show you where interracial marriage wasn't supported by denominations throughout history???



Sure...that would be great.



WaltL1 said:


> It's also interesting how now it's the individual church's fault.
> Something "bad" the fingers get pointed everywhere else.
> Something "good " oh yes we are Christians united under God.
> My point is simple and backed up by history and reality and I think that's where we are differing.



Can you give me some examples?  Many churches don't go along with the denomination.  Often times, the individual church follows their community rather than the denomination.  And you'll have some more liberal and others more conservative....and you end up with things like PC-USA.


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## ambush80 (Apr 25, 2016)

Israel said:


> I've heard of "strong christians", not sure what they look like.
> 
> 
> I'm far more attentive now to those whose only plea seems "Lord, make me too weak to betray you..."




I suppose they look like what they profess to be, just like Right Christians or Correct Christians.  Which kind are you?


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