# St Regis cancels our lease



## Son (Feb 26, 2009)

Received a letter today stating somebody at St Regis didn't like my comments about the price per acre, having a rude response when I called them the one time, and about me complaining about them claiming an increase in acreage each year. County map says 250 acres. 
A little history on this property. I've hunted the adjacent properties for 21 years now. Of those 21 years, we had a constant problem with a club who leased St Regis tract #95 cutting our locks, chains, and driving through our lease to get to the landlocked St Regis property. The last group must have been bad tenants becaue St Regis called and ask us if we would lease the 250.  To help out St Regis and to assure we wouldn't have anymore conflicts, we lease it. Might say it was a blessing for both of us. The letter said they gather I'm unhappy with the lease and St Regis in general. Not unhappy with St Regis at all, just don't like the price, increase in acre numbers and my one phone call wasn't a pleasant one.
We're good tenants. We kept the roads mowed, cleaned the roads up after the last thinning, and monitor it to keep folks from dumping there. Not only that, we stopped a local from dumping his dead cattle there. Sorry  Ms, Long if you took it the wrong way. I only told the truth. I'll let you know up front. We will not allow anybody who isn't in our club or insurance to drive a mile through us to your tract #95. We've already been there, and it doesn't work.


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## Thebody (Feb 26, 2009)

If that road is an easement there won't be much you can do.  If they are truely landlocked it could be a court battle for the property owners (both), one they may not want to fight.  

Sometimes change is good, you may get some good neighbors.  It should not be a battle.


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## Son (Feb 26, 2009)

*St Regis*

Our land manager and theirs had a conversation about this before. It's not an easement. The previous St Regis club had access through a farm up the road. They made the farmer mad and he locked em out. That's when they started cutting our chain and locks.
21 years, and we've always had a good relationship with our other lessors, and we're very satisfied with them.
"Judging by your recent comments on the GON forums"
Watching the forums are they? And evidently can't take constructive critisizm. Due to the economy, we were considering cutting one of the properties anyway. A St Regis employee helped make our decision. Last season only two of our members hunted the St Regis tract because it stayed flooded. Heck, if the economy gets any worse, we might have to cut back even more. Just look at the clubs asking for members. I'm 67 and been around long enough to know when something isn't right. The time I called to question the acreage, I was told to take it or leave it, they had clubs waiting. To me, that was rude.


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## Buckfever (Feb 27, 2009)

Son rude is the name of the game for them nowdays, because they fill like someone will pick it up if you don't want. I think they have a rude awaking coming and it won't be long! Good luck this year and hopefully you won't have a problem with the locks this year.


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## whitworth (Feb 27, 2009)

*The only "rites" you have is the lease*

And if you don't like the price in the lease, you don't like the lease. 

Aggravate the owner's representatives, and their tolerance levels might not be very high.  

A lessee is a lessee, is a lessee.  Rarely an owner in many situations.  Until he starts paying the taxes.  

Life is tough.


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## Havana Dude (Feb 27, 2009)

Someone will pay their price.


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## Son (Feb 27, 2009)

*St Regis*

Probably a blessing in disguise. We really needed to cut back somewhere to make our club more affordable to the existing members, and those who would like to join us.
We took on another 674 acres last season, and it's a super property. Probably why most of our members didn't hunt the St Regis tract last season.  1600 acres are enough to look after. It's all about friends and enjoying the outdoors to me. 
And yes, I agree with you about the economy hitting the timber companies. It's already hitting the hunters. It will be a domino effect that eventually gets everyone but the most wealthy. Bailouts will keep the wealthy wealthy..That's my take on that.
Thanks for the favorable comments ya'll. And remember, if you say anything on this forum that's negative about St. Regis. Ms Long will terminate your lease. Must be nice to turn down 3554.39 revenue that St Regis could have received. If anybody wants input on the St Regis Mayhaw tract #95, just PM me and I'll gladly fill you in.


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## Son (Mar 3, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*

The above topic made me think. How in the world can any hunt club seriously practice QDM or pay the price we pay for leasing and let most everything walk, managing for future hunting seasons? It's a shot in the dark if a club has no promise of holding onto that property?
Stewarts of the land, keeping people from dumping, keeping roads clear, mowed and monitoring throughout the year are also some facets that may be a waste of your time if it's not appreciated.
I went up to the St Regis tract to remove three ladderstands for members. Couldn't get to them because the area is still flooded. And I ain't wading while it's cold.
Not reasonable for those members to travel over 300 miles just to remove one or two stands. I bet many of ya have managed for better hunting on properties that were lost of taken away. Makes you kind of think differently doesn't it?


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## Jeff Raines (Mar 3, 2009)

I had looked at some property that was landlocked.I asked about an easement,the paper company was honest and told me I would have to get permission from surrounding landowner to drive through.
The owner of landlocked property has easement,not hunt clubs that lease.


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## matthewsman (Mar 3, 2009)

*Hey Son*

I was thinking about something...

I'd bet dollars to donuts that St. Regis doesn't scan these boards looking for negative comments from leaseholders.

Here's what I think happened...I could be wrong,who knows?

Some jackleg on here needs land to hunt...They like your area of the state and have seen some of the trail cam pics etc....THEY saw your comments about St Regis and contacted Mrs. Long and directed her here in an effort to skate your land out from under you...

St Regis thinks,well,we have it leased either way,let's teach him a lesson...

Do what you do brother..If they don't have an easement,don't allow them to cross your property..Or better yet,let them cross,but make it well worth your while.....$$$$$


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2009)

I hope they monitor my comments...

I will never consider even _looking _at land st regis has for lease.  they as a company are not good for hunters and they as a company are not good for wildlife and they as a company are not good for the land.  they are however pretty good for pine trees.

all of this is from my experience on 2 different tracts.  one they bought from temple while I was on it.  the land was absolutely raped, including a massive swamp being removed and hardwoods on the waterways being removed _and _the lease went from 7.10 an acre to 9 and some change over night.  the other I joined and they had it and although it was not a bad club and a good piece of land, it was not a good piece of land or  a good club because of the owners.  fact is they did everything possible to make it tough for those 2 things to happen.

I have zero issues with them making money off their precious pines.  all paper companies do the same. however being good to the lease holders and being good to the land would go a long way to keeping the bad publicity down.


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## fishbit (Mar 3, 2009)

You state"your" locks and "our" land...It's their land and if they gave permission (even if there is no easement) , whoever they gave permission to can go where they have permission. It's their land, you just have hunting rights.


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## Buckfever (Mar 3, 2009)

fishbit said:


> You state"your" locks and "our" land...It's their land and if they gave permission (even if there is no easement) , whoever they gave permission to can go where they have permission. It's their land, you just have hunting rights.



fishbit can you clarify what you'e saying here?


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## Son (Mar 3, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*

We currently have three tracts of land, all different owners. It may be St Regis land, but to get to it, they have to go through another landowner.  I remember St Regis cutting the last time. Tree debree and all waste was pushed into the ponds. Talk about wetland abuse. Also was told they crossed private property of another without making prior arrangements. 
I agree, someone notified Ms Long. But if they did it with taking over the property in mind, they're in for a surprise.
We'll fight access going through our lease. And like the last time ingress, egress was discussed by the two land managers they agreed to an easement down a fenceline, ending in a swamp. Still no access because no vehicle can go through that swamp, waters deep most times.
St Regis at the time decided it best to terminate the people who had it leased. Then called and ask us to lease it, we did. Probably would have been good for Ms Long to review that history before taking her abrupt action. Because, here we go again, and we almost have The St Regis tract surrounded. Guess it can be considered a good game refuge. I would never treat my customers like Ms Long does, just not good for business.
Deep water, muddy rutty roads and no access, bring em on and lets see what happens.


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## Mac (Mar 3, 2009)

Son,  I knew a couple timber company tracts in W. Ga that are not leased because they can not give a lessee easement to the land.

Good luck,  IMO you are in the drivers seat.


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## Son (Mar 3, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*

I would imagine, our club isn't the only one to experience such a problem. 
I suggest standing by your principles and don't let big business run you over. Usually, the problem is with an individual, not the company. An extended communication with a company would soon tell the root of the problem. Ms Long had her turn, now it's mine.  Thanks for the input guys..
Son


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## GeorgiaTrout (Mar 3, 2009)

Not wanting to start something, but the owner of your leased property COULD give the leasee or future leasee of the St. Regis property access through your leased property to the landlocked property.


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## fishbit (Mar 4, 2009)

Buckfever said:


> fishbit can you clarify what you'e saying here?



It St.regis' land. They can can give anybody permission to come onto their land. Most leases are just for hunting rights. The OWNER still owns the land and do with it how he/she or they see fit (letting ajoining property owners cross, logging, or anything else).


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## Son (Mar 4, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*

Best I can remember back when we last had a problem with others trying to cross our primary lease to get to St Regis. One of our past members who is in the legal business said. Their best chance of getting permission to cross anothers land would be at the nearest location from the property to a county or state road. That's not us. Our neighboring farmers were glad when we leased that 250 because it stopped the problems they had with people crossing their fields.
If that 250 leases to another club, nobody's going to be happy about it on the east side because it causes problems. I'm sure the land managers don't have time to deal with it either.
We're required to keep gates locked, we don't take kindly to people cutting chains and locks. Nor do I appreciate threatening phone calls from people I never get to meet.
If the situation comes up again, it will be turned over to DNR and the SO.
We can't leave the St Regis property as it was when we first leased it. In order to do that, we would have to replace two trailer loads of junk and trash we hauled that was left by the preceeding group. We didn't remove the many tree stands the proceeding group built in trees. Most look too dangerous to mess with. Time is removing em as they rot down. We leave the St Regis property better than we found it. Bet St Regis wish everybody would do that.


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## gadeerwoman (Mar 4, 2009)

One thing that timber companies in general like to stress is good relations with neighbors. Too much complaining and they may have a talk with the owner of the rest of the land you are leasing.
One thing to remember for all clubs: if you don't own the land yourself you are a 'guest' of the landowner. You may be a 'paying guest' but you a guest all the same.


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## Son (Mar 4, 2009)

*St Regis*

On our side. Our hunt lease owners know about the before mentioned problem. And we have an excellent track record the 21 years we've been there. I doubt they would see us as the problem. But rather, realize that now, an old problem may come back. They'll also realize that we are not the problem.
But I will agree. You never know what's in the future when it's not your own land.


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Mar 5, 2009)

Here's my suggestion.  Get a heavy-duty trailer and a bobcat.  Find some land that is being cleared for a subdivision and get permission to take some of the tree trunks.  Cut them the length of the trailer, and load as many of them as you can on the trailer with the bobcat.  Haul them down to your property and pile them in the road that leads to the St. Regis property, maybe 3/4 mile in.  Let nature take it's course, and the rest of the road will be gone in 2-3 years.  Put a large sign on your gate, "Attention.  Before you cut my chain, be aware that this road no longer leads to the St. Regis property.  We have blocked it, and you will have to access your property from one of the landowners on the East side."


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## Son (Mar 5, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*



> tree trunks



LOL

Don't need tree trunks the roads are bad enough already to keep most people out, (mud and water). Our other lessors maintain the roads pretty much. We keep em cleared and mowed. We kpt St Regis cleared too, but there was nothing we could with the marl mud and water.
I was up there today, removing stands for members who live far away. Got two out, two more to go. Was pretty tough on an old guy with gout in the right foot.
Now, my truck's all muddy again. The reason I covered this subject isn't for sympathy. I consider this forum a place for sportsmen to stick together, and to share their stories, good and bad. A "Heads up meeting place" to keep us informed.


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## great white (Mar 7, 2009)

you may want to check the legality of blocking off access to land that is not your and is land locked. if you start trying to keep someone from getting to that land by blocking the roads with trees and or digging trenches across the road ect... you will be asking for trouble. if i was trying to get to my land and people whose land i had to cross to get to it started doing that i'm sure there would be a board full of nails accidentally dropped and covered up at the gate or a cigarette butt would accidentally start a fire.  what your doing is just childish and has you asking for trouble if you run across the wrong people, let alone legal trouble denying access to their property.


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## matthewsman (Mar 7, 2009)

*you'd go to jail too*



great white said:


> you may want to check the legality of blocking off access to land that is not your and is land locked. if you start trying to keep someone from getting to that land by blocking the roads with trees and or digging trenches across the road ect... you will be asking for trouble. if i was trying to get to my land and people whose land i had to cross to get to it started doing that i'm sure there would be a board full of nails accidentally dropped and covered up at the gate or a cigarette butt would accidentally start a fire.  what your doing is just childish and has you asking for trouble if you run across the wrong people, let alone legal trouble denying access to their property.



If the other land owner doesn't have a deeded easement,they(Son's property owners)do not have to allow accsess thru his land.He repeatedly mentioned in this thread that the land was previously entered thru another side.

Childish would be the boards or a cigarette butt,and criminal to boot.


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## Todd E (Mar 7, 2009)

matthewsman,
Well stated !!

great white,
You trying to lease tract 95


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## GrandSlamHunter (Mar 7, 2009)

I think that some of you are missing that Son's landowners are in agreement with him. They are not willing to provide access to the landlocked property. In the absense of a deeded easement, a landlocked landowner would look to establish a prescriptive easement, showing access being allowed historically through another landowner. It sounds like this has been established through a tract on their east side, not Son's landowners. However, all landowners could deny access, which would mean a trip to the courts for St. Regis.

P.S. I'm not an attorney but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!


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## Son (Mar 8, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*

If you stayed at a Holiday Inn, you'll do...

If push comes to shove, it will be handled by the authorities. Not I, don't have time for such problems.
Not to keep this thread going, but to make it as accurate as posssible.
A Ms Long signed the termination of the lease.
The phone call I referenced was with a Ms Brenda Thueson.
After a few PM's I now know who the snitch probably is. Thanks GUY, you're the kind of fellow we don't want to hunt with. And maybe you would be interested in the 250 that grows to 274. Just think, you would get to meet me in person. 
Being one who deals in investments, I've wondered. Wondered if every St Regis hunting leases grew in acreage? Sure would amount to a bunch of extra money, and make somebody look good. Sounds like one of those CEO's in the News. Might check into it with those on a higher level. I'm not one to forget a matter such as this until it's solved. Thanks everybody for your comments. If this topic did one thing. It alerted everybody reading, about what St Regis leasing can do to you.


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## Rich Kaminski (Mar 8, 2009)

*Charge any new club who leases the St Regis*

property a steep yearly fee to use your road. If they don't like itnotify the GW and have them arrested for trespassing. Now if that were to happen, St Regis would certainly have a lawsuit on their hands from the new leases.


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## great white (Mar 8, 2009)

The easist way to bring an end to this whole this would be to talk to the people leasing the st. Regis tract and work something out with them. We allow a club to access the lower tract of their land through our property with no easement at all and they have access to get to it from their land, but it's a long way to get to that end by 4-wheeler. So we let them use our roads and interlocked 1 on their locks in out chain and we have never had a problem with this. Taking out your problem with st. Regis because they pulled your lease because someone in your club was running their mouth about them is not the best thing to do. The people leasing the land are probably like the people in your club, just wanting to hunt and have a good time with family and friends not have to put up with alot of b.s with other clubs about a road. If you let them use the road and interlock 1 of their locks with yours i'm sure you wouldn't have any more problems with your chains and lock being cut. What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot, just something to think about. And for whoever todd e. Is, fyi i'm not trying to lease #95. I have 3 clubs already and don't need another one. We get along with all the other clubs around us and don't have these kind of petty problems nor have our leases taken from us.


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## trailhunter (Mar 9, 2009)

Just my guess, but none of the  land owners are going to be happy if St. Regis files a civil suit to get to their property for logging, the next time they have a scheduled cut.


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## Son (Mar 9, 2009)

*St Regis cancels*



> because someone in your club was running their mouth



You're referring to me there. Evidently you didn't understand the thread. Running one's mouth would be spreading eroneous retoric. Everything I said is true.  Lease or no lease, I'm not one to hide and take whatever is dished out. It's our club money being spent, and it's my duty to look out for the club. We would have no problem with a good group passing through us, if that were possible. Key words, "good group". Been there, and it didn't work, even though we bent over backwards. Only takes one irresponsibly person to throw a stick in the spokes. Read again where I stated. ST Regis called us and ask our club to lease the land because they had problems with the last group. Speaks volumes there if you ask me.


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## jmfauver (Mar 12, 2009)

Son,
I hope you can get a group that will work with you instead of cutting the chains and locks.As far as the lease being terminated,I read the other thread that I suspect started this mess for you and I think you did nothing wrong.I would like to say some things to the folks who got this mess started as well as the folks you leaded from but I will leave it with this"EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY""EDITED FOR PROFANITY"


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## Son (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks JMF, some folks just don't get it. Reminds me of the joke about people who have sympathy for terrorist. The terrorist said, "Good, we'll kill you last". But then, many people never see any harm, unless they themselves feel the pain.
So much for this thread, just wanted my hunting friends to know the facts. And thanks again for those who support my views on this matter.
The money saved from the lease termination will be put to good use. It reduces our dues for one thing, and that's a plus.
FINI


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## whchunter (Mar 13, 2009)

*Saint or No Saint?*

Could St Regis possibly be guilty of illegally cutting trees and disturbing wetland santuaries?  I'm not sure of the exact limitations but would be interested in knowing more about it. I have heard that timber companies have boundaries where they have to stop before infringing on wetlands.

Just stirring the pot ...yall be careful and don't get fishbit.


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## saltysenior (Mar 14, 2009)

SON...are you dealing on the phone with ms. or mrs...??? each seem to react to a gentleman differently.....


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## larpyn (Mar 16, 2009)

don't get mad; get even


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