# Noise ordinance**Citation issued 5-24***



## Offroad (May 21, 2010)

My son rides his dirt bike a couple of afternoons a week fifteen to twenty minutes.The local depuites have been called out 5 times now from a complaining neighbor,says the noise is "detrimental to his health".Deputies say we are not breaking any laws.Now the local code enforcement officer says we will receive a citation and have to go to court and let a judge decide.
Has any one had this problem?


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## Swamprat (May 21, 2010)

Have not had this problem but would think if it is on your own property and the bike had legal exhaust and you are in a area that had no ordinance from riding so called bike then you should be well within your legal rights.

Sounds like your neighbor needs a hobby.


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## Gentleman4561 (May 21, 2010)

I agree with swamp rat as long as you dont have a strait pipe or something illegal thats making it really loud you should be fine.


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## merc123 (May 21, 2010)

Go to court and let the judge decide...  That way it's done.  The decision is final.  If they say go then ride.  If they say no then don't ride.  Too easy!


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## 7Mag Hunter (May 21, 2010)

No noise problem but neighbor below me filled a suit against
my other neighbor (above me) because his kids riding their dirt bikes on their own property has caused muddy water to get into his
lake...The creek flows thru our property and into the lake....
We both own 5+ acres and the lake owner has 14ac land &2acre lake.


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## Offroad (May 22, 2010)

7Mag Hunter said:


> No noise problem but neighbor below me filled a suit against
> my other neighbor (above me) because his kids riding their dirt bikes on their own property has caused muddy water to get into his
> lake...The creek flows thru our property and into the lake....
> We both own 5+ acres and the lake owner has 14ac land &2acre lake.



There is a law against riding in (across) creeks,(water) that causes oil from bike or atv to contaminate streams and lakes.I have been told that causing dirt to be moved effects the eco system, be aware.


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## Offroad (May 22, 2010)

merc123 said:


> Go to court and let the judge decide...  That way it's done.  The decision is final.  If they say go then ride.  If they say no then don't ride.  Too easy!



The only problem is politics sometimes plays  a part that is not fair.
We are on our property with a stock legal dirt bike,when does it stop that we are being told what we can do on our own property.(according to the deputies,(and what i can find in the county ordinances) we are not violating any laws)
By the way, this persons wife works for a high up elected politician.


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## EAGLE EYE 444 (May 22, 2010)

offroad,
You may very well be legal.  I would be interested to hear of your outcome with this situation.  

Now as to the comment made by 7Mag Hunter.  I just read in this mornings newpaper that Gov.  Sonny Perdue signed a bill yesterday (one of 67 bills that he signed into law) that bans the riding of off-road vehicles in stream beds even if they are are dry at the time.


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## Prorain (May 22, 2010)

I can't stand nosey aggravating folk.Usually if there is noise ordinance it has certain times for lower noise like where I am at from 10:00 pm-7:00am  other then that I don't care what happens and they know that I have hounds and make sure they make very little noise at night and I live in a subdivision in city limits.Hope everthing works out for ya.


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## cj5 buggy (May 22, 2010)

Offroad said:


> By theh way, this persons wife works for a high up elected politician.



if the good ole boy network is strong you'll get hosed. if it doesn't play in your favor i'd call the local television station.


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## rayjay (May 22, 2010)

Options:

Repack the silencer.

Get a quieter pipe.

Reroute the track so it's not very close to the other's property [ may not help ].

Darrell Bassani came out with an advertising slogan back in the 70's.  Less sound equals more ground. It didn't catch on therefore we have fewer and fewer places to ride.


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## Throwback (May 22, 2010)

What does the local ordinance say? 

post it if you can. 


T


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## DYI hunting (May 22, 2010)

I have had the police called at least 8 times on me for shooting which each time the deputy said it was legal.  Twice the 911 caller  called in saying I was disturbing the peace.  

I can't see where riding a dirt bike could be deemed illegal if it is on your property, he is running factory exhaust and done at reasonable hours.  It is no worse or louder than someone cutting their grass.


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## JustUs4All (May 22, 2010)

Most counties and towns have some form of the dreaded "Nuisance Law".  Basically these laws are so broad as makes it illegal to do whatever another person can convince a judge to declare a nuisance.

You might want to get ready going over to your neighbor's and recording the sound of the bike and the sound of a lawnmower.  If they are not too dissimilar and if the bike is being ridden at a reasonable time, this might give you a leg up on the complainant who is only likely to have no more than his statement that the sound is a nuisance.  Remember that the preponderance of the evidence should win this case.   If you can line up the testimony of some other neighbors (and possibly the officers) that the noise is not a nuisance, this would help also.


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## Offroad (May 22, 2010)

Throwback said:


> What does the local ordinance say?
> 
> post it if you can.
> 
> ...



Sec. 30-39.  Loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise.
(a)   Generally.  It shall be unlawful for any individual in the unincorporated area of the county or upon property owned or controlled by the county to create any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise of such character, intensity or duration as to be detrimental to the life or health of any individual, or in disturbance of the public peace and welfare.  
(b)   Prohibited noises enumerated.  The following acts are declared to be loud, disturbing and unnecessary noises in violation of this section, but such listing shall not be deemed exclusive:  
(1)   The playing of any radio, phonograph or musical instrument in such a manner or with such a volume, particularly during the hours between 12:00 midnight and 7:00 a.m., as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of persons in any office, hospital, dwelling, hotel or other type of residence, or any persons in the vicinity.
(2)   Yelling, shouting, whistling or singing on the public streets, particularly between the hours of 12:00 midnight and 7:00 a.m., or at any time or place so as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of persons in any office, hospital, dwelling, hotel or other type of residence, or any persons in the vicinity.
(3)   The erection, including excavating, demolition, alteration or repair, of any building in a residential area, or the excavation of streets and highways in any residential area, other than between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m., except by or on the behalf of the city, county or state, when the public welfare and convenience renders it impossible to perform this work during the day, or work performed by public utility companies under like conditions and circumstances.
(4)   The creation of excessive noise on any street or property adjacent to any school, institution of learning, hospital, church or court, while in session, which unreasonably interferes with the workings or sessions thereof.
(5)   The use of loudspeakers or amplifiers on moving motor vehicles for advertising or other purposes.
(6)   The use of loudspeakers or amplifiers upon the streets, sidewalks, parks or other public places of the county, provided that nothing in this subsection shall apply to any governmental agency.
(7)   The sounding of any horn or signal device on any motor vehicle while not in motion, except as a danger signal if another vehicle is approaching apparently out of control, or, if in motion, only as a danger signal, or the creation of noise by means of any signal device for an unnecessary or unreasonable period of time


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## Doc_5729 (May 22, 2010)

Offroad said:


> Now the local code enforcement officer says we will receive a citation and have to go to court and let a judge decide.
> Has any one had this problem?



Haven't had a problem with dirt bikes, BUT I did have a problem at my previous home and my current home with yapping dogs.

That fell under both the noise ordinance and the nuisance ordinance. Won the first case in court TWICE and the second hasn't progressed that far ..................... yet.



Offroad said:


> There is a law against riding in (across) creeks,(water) that causes oil from bike or atv to contaminate streams and lakes.I have been told that causing dirt to be moved effects the eco system, be aware.



Falls under the EPA (Federal) regulations enforced by the EPD on the State level. Soil erosion must and shall be contained on the property it originates from. 



JustUs4All said:


> Most counties and towns have some form of the dreaded "Nuisance Law".  Basically these laws are so broad as makes it illegal to do whatever another person can convince a judge to declare a nuisance.
> 
> You might want to get ready going over to your neighbor's and recording the sound of the bike and the sound of a lawnmower.  If they are not too dissimilar and if the bike is being ridden at a reasonable time, this might give you a leg up on the complainant who is only likely to have no more than his statement that the sound is a nuisance.  Remember that the preponderance of the evidence should win this case.   If you can line up the testimony of some other neighbors (and possibly the officers) that the noise is not a nuisance, this would help also.



Tape recordings aren't generally allowed in court since they are easily manipulated.  An expert witness in noise control would be required with dB recordings at various distances from the source. That gets expensive, in a hurry. 




Offroad said:


> Sec. 30-39.  Loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise.
> (a)   Generally.  It shall be unlawful for any individual in the unincorporated area of the county or upon property owned or controlled by the county to create any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise of such character, intensity or duration as to be detrimental to the life or health of any individual, or in disturbance of the public peace and welfare.



First section is pretty cut and dry. 

The key is going to be what this person's medical condition is.

Some are SERIOUS.

In our case, my wife suffers from anxiety and panic attacks. They began after her open heart surgery.

Yapping dogs, continuous barking can and does trigger the attacks, which in turn could .............. well you know the outcome.

The simple solution in this case would be to approach the neighbor and attempt to make a compromise. He (she) may be willing to work with you.

I will say I made numerous attempts  both times with each neighbor to correct the situation. My attempts were fruitless and in the end involved the law and/or code enforcement.

These cases are usually heard in Magistrates Court, but you also have the right to trial by jury and can request the case to be tried in Superior court.


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## JustUs4All (May 22, 2010)

Here is a simplification of paragraph (a):

It shall be unlawful to create any unreasonably loud and unnecessary noise in disturbance of the public peace.

This means in effect whatever someone can convince a judge that it means.


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## JustUs4All (May 22, 2010)

Doc_5729 said:


> Tape recordings aren't generally allowed in court since they are easily manipulated.  An expert witness in noise control would be required with dB recordings at various distances from the source. That gets expensive, in a hurry.



Yep, but up to the discretion of the judge, and that discretion is very broad.  If the other party is self represented he probably will not know to object or upon what grounds.


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## Doc_5729 (May 22, 2010)

JustUs4All said:


> Yep, but up to the discretion of the judge, and that discretion is very broad.  If the other party is self represented he probably will not know to object or upon what grounds.



I agree with what you're saying, but in my case we were both self represented.

And we were both interviewed by the Solicitor prior to the hearing and she inquired about what material we had to support our case. I was submitting the tapes and the Judge threw them out before we ever got started without any objections from the defendant and against the Solicitors recommendations.

He stated something about that knob called a "volume control" did not reflex real life events accurately in determining dB levels in amateur recordings.

I had witnesses and in the end didn't need them due to my documentation and preparation. A lot will depend on how well prepared the complainant is.


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## JustUs4All (May 22, 2010)

Yep.  That is a great example of the latitude of discretion afforded the judge.  He should listen to all the evidence, the good with the bad and weight it all according to its quality.  A recording may not be the highest quality evidence, but it is still evidence and should be heard and weighed on its merits.  That latitude afforded judges sometimes works for you and sometimes not.


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## mattech (May 22, 2010)

just let them have fun, just make sure they follow all rules to  the T, dont let them leave the yard with them o any thing, if it keeps on, start calling on him everytime he cranks his lawnmower or anything else. while growing up we would all ride dirtbikes and atv's all around our yard and on the dirt roads, the property has been turned into a subdivision and every time I crank my YZ250 (2stroke) an officer shows up and says he "has" to come out and check it out. Its amazing how these type of people think the world revolves around them and noone else, if he dont like hearing motorcycles in the country (unincorporated) tell him to moove to the city, that is what living in the country is for.


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## Twenty five ought six (May 22, 2010)

Doc_5729 said:


> I agree with what you're saying, but in my case we were both self represented.
> 
> And we were both interviewed by the Solicitor prior to the hearing and she inquired about what material we had to support our case. I was submitting the tapes and the Judge threw them out before we ever got started without any objections from the defendant and against the Solicitors recommendations.
> 
> ...



Your judge was a butt.  Recordings are admitted into evidence all the time.  Technically, recordings are no different than photographs.  For example, the argument has been (and rejected) made that pictures taken through a telephoto lens should not be admitted because they compress the perspective.  Any deficiencies are a matter of cross examination, or rebuttal evidence.

Recordings are  a classic example of the type of evidence which is admitted subject to the finder of fact determining the weight and credibility it will give to that evidence.


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## Throwback (May 22, 2010)

Offroad said:


> Sec. 30-39.  Loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise.
> (a)   Generally.  It shall be unlawful for any individual in the unincorporated area of the county or upon property owned or controlled by the county to create any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise of such character, intensity or duration as to be detrimental to the life or health of any individual, or in disturbance of the public peace and welfare.
> (b)   Prohibited noises enumerated.  The following acts are declared to be loud, disturbing and unnecessary noises in violation of this section, but such listing shall not be deemed exclusive:
> (1)   The playing of any radio, phonograph or musical instrument in such a manner or with such a volume, particularly during the hours between 12:00 midnight and 7:00 a.m., as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of persons in any office, hospital, dwelling, hotel or other type of residence, or any persons in the vicinity.
> ...



what you are doing is NOT specifically mentioned as being directly in violation of the ordinance. 

Topics to consider/bring up. 

1) How EXACTLY is this "detrimental to his health"? Does he have any kind of PROOF that medically this is causing a problem, or is it just "getting on his nerves"?

2) Has anyone else EVER been cited for a similar offense? How many other people in the county have a motorcycle and how many have been cited? 

3) How is it "unreasonable" for a child to ride his motorcycle in the yard? 

4) How is it "unnecessary" for a child to ride his motorcycle in the yard? Would the county prefer he ride it in the road, unlicensed, unhelmeted, etc? 

5) How exactly is it disturbing the peace for him to do this? If you were cutting firewood with a chainsaw would that violate the ordinance? 

6) I would get a copy of the video of the deputies telling you that you aren't breaking any laws (if they have a car cam). If you know what date/time he told you this you can file an open records request through the sheriff to get a copy or at least view the tape and see if it is on it. If so, take it to court as evidence, and have the deputy subpeonaed if needed. 

7) What else has this neighbor complained about in the past to the sheriff/marshall? Do an open records request to BOTH agencies and see what else he has complained about. If there are numerous complaints that are marked as "unfounded" it could be a help to bring it up that he is a constant complainer. 

8) Talk to your other neighbors, see if they have a problem with it. IF the don't , bring them as witnesses that is NOT a problem. 




T


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## CAL (May 22, 2010)

May I suggest to do all you can to make the bike as quiet and not noticeable as you can.I am sure it has some things that can be done to do this.Might have to change the muffler to accomplish this.I can understand the neighbors point to some extent I bought a Kubota RTV for my grandchildren to use and enjoy.Now,the thing about drives me bananas when they are here.Backwards and farwards,around and around,never quiet.I sit on pins and needles afraid they will get hurt.Guess I need to sell it!


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## tiger1996 (May 23, 2010)

I live in a subdivision and had kinda the same thing.First noise is read by a decibel meter.If they do not have one in court there is no way to prove if it is to loud.We had about thirty homeowners sign a letter stating that my son's riding was not a problem for them.The judge kinda took it the way we did and we still ride.As long as you go to court prepared you should be fine.


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## Doc_5729 (May 23, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Your judge was a butt.  Recordings are admitted into evidence all the time.  Technically, recordings are no different than photographs.  For example, the argument has been (and rejected) made that pictures taken through a telephoto lens should not be admitted because they compress the perspective.  Any deficiencies are a matter of cross examination, or rebuttal evidence.
> 
> Recordings are  a classic example of the type of evidence which is admitted subject to the finder of fact determining the weight and credibility it will give to that evidence.



I'm with you and agree with the fact, and even the Solicitor recommended admittance. 

However, as the Judge did point out, even though conversations are allowed as evidence on tape, noise is a completely different issue and can be replayed at volumes that could exceed the levels of the event.

Therefore without proper equipment (dB meters) and documentation by an expert witness (audio engineer or a specialist in environmental noise) the tapes would not be admissible.

My case was pretty cut and dry so to speak and we had it won before it ever started. Seems the Judge had a similar problem and hated yapping dogs too.


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## Offroad (May 24, 2010)

Thanks to all for the responses,
we are being served a summons to appear in court now.

Any attorneys interetsed in this one?


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## tiger1996 (May 24, 2010)

What was the charge?


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## Prorain (May 24, 2010)

He has done this before!!!!How many folks use detrimintal to my health he know's it's in there.He should have to produce a doctors paperwork to back it up!!!!!!!!!


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## Offroad (May 24, 2010)

tiger1996 said:


> What was the charge?



Loud disturbing and Unneccessary Noise,
Remarks section,
Violator has failed to comply reference  to complaint of unnecessary noise


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## Offroad (May 24, 2010)

Prorain said:


> He has done this before!!!!How many folks use detrimintal to my health he know's it's in there.He should have to produce a doctors paperwork to back it up!!!!!!!!!



His wife works for the govenor


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## Throwback (May 24, 2010)

Has the officer actually heard this noise, or is he going on what he was told?


T


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## 7Mag Hunter (May 24, 2010)

Offroad said:


> There is a law against riding in (across) creeks,(water) that causes oil from bike or atv to contaminate streams and lakes.I have been told that causing dirt to be moved effects the eco system, be aware.



There is a bridge across the creek....Dirtbikes ATVs
never get in the creek....Neighbor said riding trails
caused excessive dirt to flow from my neighbors property
thru MY property to his lake....


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## mattech (May 24, 2010)

Offroad said:


> Loud disturbing and Unneccessary Noise,
> Remarks section,
> Violator has failed to comply reference  to complaint of unnecessary noise



I would to suggest to fight this with all your might!


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## ofcford (May 25, 2010)

Disturbing the peace is usually defined broadly as any action that disturbs the normal tranquility of the surrounding area.
Most of us consider the "totality of the circumstances" meaning, time of day, proximity to other property, how loud, how mush dust is speading to others property, ect. Before we make a desicion on the valitity of the complaint.  Be careful though there is a state law there can be NO noise coming from a vehicle that can be heard for over 100'
I agree with some of the other posts...show that you attempted to compromise in a reasonable manner and the judge will probably get mad at the complainant for wasting his time.


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## Offroad (May 25, 2010)

Throwback said:


> Has the officer actually heard this noise, or is he going on what he was told?
> 
> 
> T



Going on what he is told.
We have offered to have our son ride while they are there, they say it is not their call.
The deputies that come out say they do not know of any violations.This noise ordinance is something that only very few know about and it is up to a judge to decide.


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## DYI hunting (May 25, 2010)

Is this a stock bike or is he running pipes?  How loud are we talking?


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## Sweetwater (May 25, 2010)

Offroad said:


> His wife works for the govenor



Good luck with that. Here in Douglas county, some new residents of a new golf course subdivision decided they didn't like having to hear the barely audible sounds of the local dirt track (7 flags), a track that had been there 30+ years, years before the subdivision or the residents it brought.

Take into consideration that one would have to be standing outside their fancy, new house with nothing else running or playing to hear the race cars. Take into consideration that the hundreds of citizens living closer to the racetrack for a longer time had never complained.

One of the folks doing the complaining was an attorney and was business partners with a certain county commission lady who owned a dirt hauling business.

I'll let you guess who won. And they used a newly passed noise ordinance to do it.

Yep. The Douglas county commission used the force of law to shut down a 30+ year old legally operating business under the guise of a "noise ordinance", all for greed.

And the irony is....the county official who most loudly championed the new noise ordinance and was the most ardent supporter of closing that "nuisance" dirt track, owned a fleet of dump trucks that brought more noise and dirt to the county than the dirt track did, and regularly rode a harley powered trike with straight pipes through the quiet, rural part of the county.

Moral of the story....I wish you luck...but...if the PTB have a beef with you, they're gonna get theirs one way or the other.

Soapbox/off


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## Offroad (May 25, 2010)

DYI hunting said:


> Is this a stock bike or is he running pipes?  How loud are we talking?




Stock from the factory, (less than 100 DB) no louder than many Harleys that ride by my house every day


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## campinnurse (May 25, 2010)

I have to step in and say that I have been on the other side of this situation.  I work nights and thus must sleep in the daytime.  I had a neighbor riding a loud dirt bike during the afternoons and it was impossible to sleep. As far as it goes, I have never heard a dirt bike that was quiet enough to allow a neighbor to sleep while it was being ridden nearby. Lawnmowers are a droning, fairly constant noise and are not as disturbing as the revving of a dirt bike (trust me, I am somewhat of an expert on daytime noise!). My suggestion would be to muffler that bike to the max or find another spot to ride.


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## Gentleman4561 (May 25, 2010)

Its your property you should be able to do what you want. Especially if the bike is stock. Fight this will all you got.


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## DYI hunting (May 25, 2010)

Offroad said:


> Stock from the factory, (less than 100 DB) no louder than many Harleys that ride by my house every day



I can't see a problem here.   Just tell the judge your side and that it is an better activity than half the stuff teenagers do now days.  He is not sitting like a vegetable in front of the tv or computer or out getting in trouble.  He is on your land and being supervised riding a motorcycle with stock exhaust that has not be modified and causing no more noise than the average lawnmower or chainsaw which are both legal to use and during normal daytime hours.  You have tried to be flexable with the neighbor in the past about riding only when they were not around.


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## Offroad (May 25, 2010)

campinnurse said:


> I have to step in and say that I have been on the other side of this situation.  I work nights and thus must sleep in the daytime.  I had a neighbor riding a loud dirt bike during the afternoons and it was impossible to sleep. As far as it goes, I have never heard a dirt bike that was quiet enough to allow a neighbor to sleep while it was being ridden nearby. Lawnmowers are a droning, fairly constant noise and are not as disturbing as the revving of a dirt bike (trust me, I am somewhat of an expert on daytime noise!). My suggestion would be to muffler that bike to the max or find another spot to ride.



If you were my neighbor and were worth a plug nickle,i would respect that you worked nights and would not ride.
This guy does not work and all he is trying to do is mind my business. That is one reason I moved to the country,get out from under city rules.


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## ratherbefishin (May 25, 2010)

or maybe get some ear plugs


campinnurse said:


> I have to step in and say that I have been on the other side of this situation.  I work nights and thus must sleep in the daytime.  I had a neighbor riding a loud dirt bike during the afternoons and it was impossible to sleep. As far as it goes, I have never heard a dirt bike that was quiet enough to allow a neighbor to sleep while it was being ridden nearby. Lawnmowers are a droning, fairly constant noise and are not as disturbing as the revving of a dirt bike (trust me, I am somewhat of an expert on daytime noise!). My suggestion would be to muffler that bike to the max or find another spot to ride.


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## Mackey (May 25, 2010)

ratherbefishin said:


> or maybe get some ear plugs



Years ago, I worked rotating shifts. Just like all Gods children, I also needed my sleep, and since I am no one of particular importace, and expect no one to alter thier lives for me, I did just that. I used ear plugs.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 25, 2010)

7Mag Hunter said:


> No noise problem but neighbor below me filled a suit against
> my other neighbor (above me) because his kids riding their dirt bikes on their own property has caused muddy water to get into his
> lake...The creek flows thru our property and into the lake....
> We both own 5+ acres and the lake owner has 14ac land &2acre lake.


 
http://www.gaswcc.georgia.gov/portal/site/SWCC/

Your neighbor could have bigger problems than silting up the neighbors lake.


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## tiger1996 (May 25, 2010)

Word of advice,do not let a judge decide.You have the right to a jury trial.Your peers should decide,not someone that might have pressure from a governor or sheriff,etc...Takes a little longer but the results are more fair.


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## Offroad (May 25, 2010)

tiger1996 said:


> Word of advice,do not let a judge decide.You have the right to a jury trial.Your peers should decide,not someone that might have pressure from a governor or sheriff,etc...Takes a little longer but the results are more fair.



If things do not go well, That is my plan.

By the way, nice deer, great car.


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## mattech (May 25, 2010)

mackey said:


> years ago, i worked rotating shifts. Just like all gods children, i also needed my sleep, and since i am no one of particular importace, and expect no one to alter thier lives for me, i did just that. I used ear plugs.



bingo


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## bighonkinjeep (May 26, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Mag Hunter View Post
No noise problem but neighbor below me filled a suit against
my other neighbor (above me) because his kids riding their dirt bikes on their own property has caused muddy water to get into his
lake...The creek flows thru our property and into the lake....
We both own 5+ acres and the lake owner has 14ac land &2acre lake.
http://www.gaswcc.georgia.gov/portal/site/SWCC/

Your neighbor could have bigger problems than silting up the neighbors lake.
__________________
 Though primarily aimed at construction sites they
May be in violation of the following and a few more,
The clean water act has been in effect since 1972
The Georgia erosion and sediment control act
 National pollutant discharge elimination system regulations (depending on the amount of area or length of track/trail)
Have you priced making someone whole again after silting up their lake? A civil court proceeding would likely not go in their favor or be cheap.


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## Twenty five ought six (May 26, 2010)

tiger1996 said:


> Word of advice,do not let a judge decide.You have the right to a jury trial.Your peers should decide,not someone that might have pressure from a governor or sheriff,etc...Takes a little longer but the results are more fair.



You don't necessarily have a right to a jury trial for an ordinance violation.


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## teethdoc (May 26, 2010)

Yes, I have had this problem, and it's with my neighbors kid who rides his bike.  The noise is annoying, but so is my lawnmower, so no biggie there.  It's when he gets out on the street and rides like a bat outa Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- that bothers me!


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## Buck Nasty (May 26, 2010)

I would suggest seeing if any of your other neighbors would be willing to go to court and testify on your behalf.  Another suggestion would be to go in front of the judge and try to come to a compromise with the other party, maybe along the lines on not riding after a certain time, etc...

Just out of curiousity....is it a 2-stroke or a thumper?


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## Offroad (May 26, 2010)

Buck Nasty said:


> I would suggest seeing if any of your other neighbors would be willing to go to court and testify on your behalf.  Another suggestion would be to go in front of the judge and try to come to a compromise with the other party, maybe along the lines on not riding after a certain time, etc...
> 
> Just out of curiousity....is it a 2-stroke or a thumper?



I have a petition signed by all surrounding neighbors that it is not a nuisance,My son usually only rides for 15-20 minutes in the afternoon around 4 or 5, sometime on Saturday afternoon.He is not a racer or habitual rider.That is why this has got my feathers ruffled.He has ridden for 3 years and no problems.Now all of a sudden, it is a issue.He has ridden 2 and 4 stroke.Now on a 4 stroke.


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## Buck Nasty (May 26, 2010)

Offroad said:


> I have a petition signed by all surrounding neighbors that it is not a nuisance,My son usually only rides for 15-20 minutes in the afternoon around 4 or 5, sometime on Saturday afternoon.He is not a racer or habitual rider.That is why this has got my feathers ruffled.He has ridden for 3 years and no problems.Now all of a sudden, it is a issue.He has ridden 2 and 4 stroke.Now on a 4 stroke.



Man if he is complaining about a 4 stroke, i would hate to hear what he would do if it were a 2 stroke.... probably is auditioning for Grumpy Old Men 3....  Good luck and let us know how it goes..


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## rayjay (May 26, 2010)

Exactly what bike do you have ?


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## Throwback (May 26, 2010)

Buck Nasty said:


> Man if he is complaining about a 4 stroke, i would hate to hear what he would do if it were a 2 stroke.... probably is auditioning for Grumpy Old Men 3....  Good luck and let us know how it goes..



no kidding. my next door neighbors (such as they are) have both and I can't really even hear them if they are on the 4 stroke. 


T


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## Offroad (May 26, 2010)

rayjay said:


> Exactly what bike do you have ?



Honda
CRF150R


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## ladr (May 27, 2010)

7Mag Hunter said:


> No noise problem but neighbor below me filled a suit against
> my other neighbor (above me) because his kids riding their dirt bikes on their own property has caused muddy water to get into his
> lake...The creek flows thru our property and into the lake....
> We both own 5+ acres and the lake owner has 14ac land &2acre lake.



Kids should stay out of the creek with the bikes.  When what you are doing has a neg effect on others, maybe someone need to be the adult over the matter.


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## rayjay (May 27, 2010)

If the kid is not racing why did you buy him a racing bike ? You should have bought a trail bike which would be very quiet. If your neighbor shows up with some easily obtainable evidence as shown below you are toast when you get to court.

Here is an excerpt from a Dirtrider review:

http://www.dirtrider.com/reviews/motocross/141_0904_first_impression_2009_honda_crf150r/index.html

All things considered, the two major downfalls of this machine can be blamed on it being a four-stroke. First, the CRF150R is loud. Sure, two-stroke minis aren't exactly easy on the ears, but the noise this machine emits is considerable when you take into account how small it is, and the sound carries plenty far even with the stock exhaust.


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## ArmyTaco (May 27, 2010)

Really? A big bad mini 4 stroke race bike...a whoppin 150 cc 4 stroke. I bet hes jumping 50ft doubles on that race bike. 

He got it cause this is America..some people seem to forget what that means..kinda like you.


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## rayjay (May 27, 2010)

It's funny how the person making the noise has all the rights and the person wanting peace and quiet has no rights.

I worked on [professionally ], rode and raced motorcycles for a big portion of my adult life so I think I have a pretty good grasp on the issues affecting all motorcyclists. The biggest one is noise and I have no patience for people that think it is their god given right to annoy the non-motorcycling public. Loud bikes belong on closed courses far away from the general public. More riding areas are lost due to loud bikes than any other reason.

If the OP had have bought a quiet bike we wouldn't even be discussing this. Instead he bought an inappropriate bike and is garnering his just desserts. He has probably understated everything about this issue. Kids typically ride the bike from dawn to dusk if you let them and the louder it is the better they like it. The 2 or 3 days a week claim is probably more like 5 to 7 days a week and 5 or 6 hours a day.

This would get on anybody's nerves eventually.


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## Buck Nasty (May 27, 2010)

rayjay said:


> It's funny how the person making the noise has all the rights and the person wanting peace and quiet has no rights.
> 
> I worked on [professionally ], rode and raced motorcycles for a big portion of my adult life so I think I have a pretty good grasp on the issues affecting all motorcyclists. The biggest one is noise and I have no patience for people that think it is their god given right to annoy the non-motorcycling public. Loud bikes belong on closed courses far away from the general public. More riding areas are lost due to loud bikes than any other reason.
> 
> ...



Inappropriate bike??? Says who? You? It is a legal bike, he bought it with his money, his kid rides it on his land only a couple of times a week and then for only a little while...yet this is inappropriate? I will take him on his word on the amount of time it is ridden, but even then it still would not matter. It is his bike his land.... Old Gramps is just fussing because it is interrupting his Judge Judy show.  Nothing worse than someone trying to spoil a kid having clean, good, legal fun.  I guess the other option would be for the kid to be off getting into all sorts of trouble....and if the truth be told, their neighbor probably used to have an old hot rod that he would race up and down the road in all the time, or rev up the engine in the driveway while working on it.


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## rayjay (May 27, 2010)

150 cc = 9 cubic inches

These bikes make 22 hp @ 12,000 rpm which equals 2.44 hp per ci.

That is the same hp per ci that a Nascar Cup motor makes. The ONLY way you reach these sorts of hp per ci numbers is for the thing to be LOUD.

As far as legality. Sure, it's a legal MOTOCROSS RACING BIKE. Legal for use on closed course racing tracks. It would not be legal for use on any Federal or state offroad areas as it doesn't have a spark arrestor and is too loud.


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## Throwback (May 27, 2010)

I have a serious, legitimate question(s)  to the OP. 

How old is this guy and if he is retired, how long has he been retired?


T


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## Grub Master (May 27, 2010)

If the bike has not been modified see if the manufactures has specs on what the decibel out put should be and compare it to other equipment.  I know it is possible to get the decibels for leaf blowers  and other lawn equipment.  Take the bike to a mechanic and have him check for original equipment if possible and prepare a statement for him to sign.  Take pictures showing the original equipment.  Try to solve it in person with the neighbor and if he does not cooperate document that you have tried to resolve the problem.  The win goes to the best prepared.  If you wear hearing aids leave them at home on your court date.


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## Offroad (May 31, 2010)

Throwback said:


> I have a serious, legitimate question(s)  to the OP.
> 
> How old is this guy and if he is retired, how long has he been retired?
> 
> ...



T, sorry for late reply,Been out of town.
This person is in late 50s, retired about 6 months


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## CAL (May 31, 2010)

I still say make an effort to quiet down the bike and then talk to the neighbor about what you have done.Do nothing and I think you will lose!


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## bobman (May 31, 2010)

There are lots of things that are technically legal to do that are inconsiderate.

A very quiet exhaust pipe would probably cost less than a few hours of lawyer time and you would set a good example to your son. Your kid could still ride and the neighbor would feel better, a win win IMO.

Sometimes people have to make compromises out of common courtesy.

When I was a kid if one of the neighbors would of complained about my dirtbike ( I had one) my dad would of told me to find somewhere else to ride or stay off it.

Times have changed...


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## rayjay (May 31, 2010)

bobman said:


> There are lots of things that are technically legal to do that are inconsiderate.



Good post.


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## tiger1996 (Jun 1, 2010)

05-26-2010, 08:28 AM  
 Twenty five ought six     Join Date: May 2006
Location: At home
iTrader: (20) Check/Add Feedback 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1996  
Word of advice,do not let a judge decide.You have the right to a jury trial.Your peers should decide,not someone that might have pressure from a governor or sheriff,etc...Takes a little longer but the results are more fair. 

You don't necessarily have a right to a jury trial for an ordinance violation. 
__________________
Behind every successful man is a woman, telling him he is wrong.


Unless I am mistaken you do have a right to a jury for anything you are charged with.I went to a jury trial for a noise ordinance and won my case.I have also took traffic tickets to trial and won.You stand a better chance in front of your peers.I could be wrong but I think anytime you are charged and want to bind it over to state court you can????


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## Throwback (Jun 1, 2010)

Offroad said:


> T, sorry for late reply,Been out of town.
> This person is in late 50s, retired about 6 months



I KNEW IT!!!

 he has the "I'm a newly retired person, bored and want to change everything in sight to suit my retirement dream" syndrome. 

Much like the people of my mom's age that are now all upset about taxes, gov't growth, etc and get all mad at me when I tell them I am too busy working to do this and that to help them. Of course, it escapes them that the way they voted all their lives help build the foundation FOR what all is going on. Funny thing is, most of them are RETIRED GOV'T WORKERS 

Anyway, this guy is now at home, sitting on his rear end, and has seen what other people have been doing while he was working all those years and now it suddenly bothers him. He wants to have everyone live to suit what his dream was all his life--or rather what he THOUGHT his life/neighborhood was when he wasn't at home, and can't stand that it isn't. 

seen it a thousand times. several times in my own family. 

he needs to move to one of them "crotchety old retired people" places so they can sit around and complain about everything with like minded people. 

T


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## Twenty five ought six (Jun 1, 2010)

tiger1996 said:


> 05-26-2010, 08:28 AM
> Twenty five ought six     Join Date: May 2006
> Location: At home
> iTrader: (20) Check/Add Feedback
> ...



You are mistaken.


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## GoldDot40 (Jun 2, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> You are mistaken.



It actually can be done. The correct procedure would be to go to court for the 'bench trial'. If you plead not guilty and are FOUND guilty by the judge....you can appeal it for a jury trial. I've been in both state court and municipal courts where defendants have asked for jury trials for noise ordinance violations....and it was granted. I was attending municipal court once where the defendant asked for his case to be moved to the 'state court' (jury trial) before he entered a plea and it was granted.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jun 2, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> It actually can be done. The correct procedure would be to go to court for the 'bench trial'. If you plead not guilty and are FOUND guilty by the judge....you can appeal it for a jury trial. I've been in both state court and municipal courts where defendants have asked for jury trials for noise ordinance violations....and it was granted. I was attending municipal court once where the defendant asked for his case to be moved to the 'state court' (jury trial) before he entered a plea and it was granted.



It actually can't be done in every case.  Trust me-- been there, done that. A lot of people, including some lawyers, make the same mistaken assumption, and then find out they are wrong. There are many ordinance violations for which there is no right of jury trial, and any appeal is to the Superior Court by writ of _Certiorari_ just like you were appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States-- then the Superior Court judge reviews the written record and makes a decision.  Whether or not you are entitled to a jury trial depends on the basis of the infraction, and the possible consequences for the violation.


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## tiger1996 (Jun 2, 2010)

I was not aware of that.But I would still bet the farm on a good lawyer getting a jury trial,if it even made it that far.I guess in our county they just agree to let you go to trial.....Just got off the phone with my x-stepfather who is an attorney and seems you are right.But the max fine for a citation is 500 bucks and in all likely hood it would be able to transfer to state court(jury trial).Glad I learned something today.


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## Rays123 (Jun 2, 2010)

rayjay said:


> 150 cc = 9 cubic inches
> 
> These bikes make 22 hp @ 12,000 rpm which equals 2.44 hp per ci.
> 
> ...


to bad its not a federal or state offroad area, its the mans front yard, the man was just asking for a little advice not to make him look like a jerk and call him a liar


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## Offroad (Jun 9, 2010)

Visited attorney today, he says "plead not guilty", then we get to have a hearing before a judge.
Our ordinance is designed to cover noises between 12pm and 7am.
This guys complaint of excessive noise is "his opinion" and opinions are like something we all have in our bottoms.We all have one.
The law does not cover opinions.

We have found out from his neighbor on the other side that he is a habitual complainer, and this will come out before the judge.Her grass needs mowing, her pool causes mosquitoes, her dogs bark and when they had puppies she had too many dogs.

Thanks to several on here for the words of defense, i chose not to respond to the idiots that are like my neighbor. 
I have no reason to lie and sometimes we just have to stand up for what we believe is our rights.My son rides 15-20 minutes, 2 or 3 days a week, he does not "race" around in the yard like an idiot, just rides to enjoy his dirt bike.
Can not wait for our day in court.


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## GoldDot40 (Jun 9, 2010)

Best of luck to you!!!

Some people complain just to hear themselves talk. Maybe you could even talk to the neighbor and offer some sort of compromise so that both of you can have some satisfaction. But something tells me the neighbor won't go for it....


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## Buck Nasty (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks for the update OR! Good Luck and let us know how it goes....


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## redlevel (Jun 11, 2010)

throwback said:


> i knew it!!!
> 
> He has the "i'm a newly retired person, bored and want to change everything in sight to suit my retirement dream" syndrome.
> 
> ...



Personal attack!!

I'm afend!!!!

Where do i go to report this character?


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## CAL (Jun 11, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> Best of luck to you!!!
> 
> Some people complain just to hear themselves talk. Maybe you could even talk to the neighbor and offer some sort of compromise so that both of you can have some satisfaction. But something tells me the neighbor won't go for it....



I agree but make the effort anyway! Will create some defense doing so.Will at least show an effort to resolve the situation.Keep us posted of your progress,we all want you to win!


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