# Aging Artifacts



## gawhitetail (Jul 27, 2009)

For instance.

Are quartz points older than chert points?

Depending on where they are found maybe since chert is not native to all areas and was traded for?


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 27, 2009)

That would depend on the point type, not the material. So the answer can be yes and no.


----------



## bigkga69 (Jul 27, 2009)

what about slate?  I have several slate points and I have always heard slate is old stuff but I know the paleo style points are the oldest, wives tale or some truth???


----------



## gawhitetail (Jul 27, 2009)

I'll have to post some pics of my finds when I get back in town later this week.

The quartz points just seem so rough, but given the nature of the material, I am sure that it is hard to work.  Most of them are small (less than 2") and the cutting edge is not as linear as my chert points.  Some have "ears" on the base and some do not (just a tang).


----------



## dtala (Jul 27, 2009)

gotta be careful with aging by shape only, flake patterns and basal grinding, or lack of, can also make a BIG differernce. Like 8,000 year er so!!!

Some Woodland era points , by shape only, look just like some Paleo era points. 

Paleo points can be as old as 14,000 years old, a clovis style would be an example. A lot of the Paleo points are fluted, not all though. The older Paleo and Early Archaic points usually exhibit much better workmanship also, they lived and died by their projectile points. BTW, those points aren't arrowheads, they predate the bow and arrow by a large margin.

I've never found a slate projectile point, I'd guess they aren't very old. Just a guess.

  troy


----------



## bigkga69 (Jul 27, 2009)

heres one of my slate points....


----------



## dtala (Jul 27, 2009)

I'd guess tool and not a projectile point, certainly not an arrahead.

cool looking though...

  troy


----------



## bigkga69 (Jul 27, 2009)

dtala said:


> I'd guess tool and not a projectile point, certainly not an arrahead.
> 
> cool looking though...
> 
> troy



yeah it would take one heck of a bow to sling that thing!!!, maybe a knife like what dmedd makes? hafted to a deer horn maybe??  who knows??


----------



## florida boy (Jul 27, 2009)

I notice alot of Paleo era stuff I have seen is not heat treated .


----------



## dmedd (Jul 27, 2009)

bigkga69 said:


> yeah it would take one heck of a bow to sling that thing!!!, maybe a knife like what dmedd makes? hafted to a deer horn maybe??  who knows??



Could be BK. I don't know how much of an edge you could put on a shale tool. I would think it would flake in layers. It could be some sort of digging tool. It's all just a SWAG anyway.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 28, 2009)

florida boy said:


> I notice alot of Paleo era stuff I have seen is not heat treated .



The Paleo people didn`t heat treat their stone.


----------



## backyard buck (Jul 28, 2009)

looks like rhyolite to me bigk


----------



## JustUs4All (Jul 28, 2009)

BGK, I don't know what that stuff is, but I have found a lot of them through the years just west of Pumpkin Center.


----------



## bigkga69 (Jul 28, 2009)

JustUs4All said:


> BGK, I don't know what that stuff is, but I have found a lot of them through the years just west of Pumpkin Center.



quiet..!!  that one came about 15 miles North East of pumpkin City!!


----------



## Bow Only (Jul 29, 2009)

florida boy said:


> I notice alot of Paleo era stuff I have seen is not heat treated .



Heat treating didn't begin until sometime in the late part of the Middle Archaic period or the beginning of the Late Archaic period.

Nice knife.

Using material to identify any artifact is difficult.  Heat altered material does help at times, but it only helps.  You can't age the material, but you can type the point and get info on the culture that produced it.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Jul 29, 2009)

Here in my area, quartz/quartzite is the only local material. Most of the oldest points we find around here-the paleo and early Archaic stuff, is made from Knox chert from eastern TN. The paleo/early Archaic people roamed far and wide hunting, were master flintknappers, and usually used the best rock they could find- sometimes traveling hundreds of miles to get it. There are some local paleo/ EA pieces that I've found/seen here made from local quartzite or good-quality rhyolite from central NC. From the Middle Archaic to the early Woodland period, almost everything around here was made from local quartz/quartzite. Then the chert starts showing back up in the middle Woodland to Mississippian period when major trade networks were established. I've seen examples of Mississippian artifacts made of Flint Ridge flint from Ohio found in eastern TN, and obsidian artifacts from out west found in central NC.


----------



## Willjo (Aug 1, 2009)

*Point styles and age.*

Here is two points the same style and found on same site one is coastal plain chert and one is Rhyolite. The rhyolite might look older because it is rougher and more crudley made but they should be approximatley the same age. I thought i had a quartz point this style but i did not see it.


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 6, 2009)

To echo what some others said, it's pretty much impossible to date points by the material since pretty much all materials were used during all time periods.  Within a certain restricted geographical area, you can frequently see patterns in the lithic materials used during certain time periods.  For example, in many areas that are poor in flint/chert, the Indians from the archaic times and later used the local lithics whether they were quartz, rhyolite/slate, etc...but any paleo points that might be found are usually made of better grade flint/chert/jasper indicating an 'import'.  Again, this is a generalization though.  I have points from Paleo times to Historic times made of quartz for example.


----------



## Bow Only (Sep 6, 2009)

Indian Arrowhead Man said:


> To echo what some others said, it's pretty much impossible to date points by the material since pretty much all materials were used during all time periods.  Within a certain restricted geographical area, you can frequently see patterns in the lithic materials used during certain time periods.  For example, in many areas that are poor in flint/chert, the Indians from the archaic times and later used the local lithics whether they were quartz, rhyolite/slate, etc...but any paleo points that might be found are usually made of better grade flint/chert/jasper indicating an 'import'.  Again, this is a generalization though.  I have points from Paleo times to Historic times made of quartz for example.


A quartz Paleo point, post a pic.  The guy who made it was good.


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 6, 2009)

Lessee...how to do photos -?  I'll have to go read up on it...back in a sec.


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 6, 2009)

*Quartz Paleo*

I think I got the photo attachment thing down...anyway, this Clovis from Gwinett Co. GA.  2&3/4" long.  BowOnly, I can tell you're an experienced collector so a little about this point:  fluted both sides, one side better than the other but not 'deeply'.  Heavy base and hafting area grinding.   

I'm always leery of the Clovis points made of vein or crystal quartz that are 'deeply' fluted...


----------



## Willjo (Sep 7, 2009)

Really nice clovis!!!!!!


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 7, 2009)

Thank you Will!  I didn't find it, I bought it from the finder...but I still enjoy holding it and thinking about the old boy who made it.  It was found in a small field that's now under a big car lot.


----------



## Steve Thompson (Sep 7, 2009)

My Daughter and I found a nice spear head at Lake Oconee. My first words to her was -  can you imagine what the last guy who touched this,  looked like.


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 7, 2009)

Steve Thompson said:


> My Daughter and I found a nice spear head at Lake Oconee. My first words to her was -  can you imagine what the last guy who touched this,  looked like.



I think that's what they call "Living History"


----------



## Bow Only (Sep 7, 2009)

Indian Arrowhead Man said:


> I think I got the photo attachment thing down...anyway, this Clovis from Gwinett Co. GA.  2&3/4" long.  BowOnly, I can tell you're an experienced collector so a little about this point:  fluted both sides, one side better than the other but not 'deeply'.  Heavy base and hafting area grinding.
> 
> I'm always leery of the Clovis points made of vein or crystal quartz that are 'deeply' fluted...



Very nice point.  
Finding a paleo,  Wow.
Finding a quartz paleo, Oh My!
Finding a quartz Clovis with fluting both sides...........priceless.


----------



## Nicodemus (Sep 7, 2009)

Bow Only said:


> Very nice point.
> Finding a paleo,  Wow.
> Finding a quartz paleo, Oh My!
> Finding a quartz Clovis with fluting both sides...........priceless.



I am in full agreement! That is a once in a lifetime...


----------



## Indian Arrowhead Man (Sep 7, 2009)

I agree, I would have loved to have found it.  I've found a few Clovis in my time but never one as nice as this one.  I'll post my personal Clovis finds soon.


----------



## Paleo (Sep 26, 2009)

> Some Woodland era points , by shape only, look just like some Paleo era points.



I've seen Yadkin points misidentified as Daltons many times.


----------

