# Labrador stud!



## shootingace (Mar 9, 2010)

hey everyone i thought this would be a better place to try to look for anyone who wants to breed labs the other dog selling forum is full of koon hunters i aint getting any where you know what i mean i have plenty of pics of my dog hes a big beatiful male and i mean big!! if any ones intrested let me know by pm or reply here hes akc registerd and has papers comes from a good bloodline thanks.


AKC registered yellow Lab he has a great temper he loves people loves to hunt. He is a great retriever for his age hes a year and 7 months now and before he was a year old I had him retrieving doves like a champ. Buck is a very muscular dog as you'll be able to tell in the pics for a lab he has the biggest neck ive ever seen his neck is 23 inches and he stands about 24 inches off the ground, he weighs100 pounds so he's pretty big. He comes from a good bloodline.The sire is Harper's Pride a chocolate. The Dam is Chirsty's Lady of Cheyenne a yellow. I'm asking $200 for the stud fee. If anybody has any futher question about him you can call 229-938-1217 ask for Mark and ill be glad to tell you anything you would like to know about him.


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## browning84 (Mar 9, 2010)

wow just wow, you’re not serious are you


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## NGaHunter (Mar 10, 2010)

Hips have been OFA'ed?  How about the eyes...Cerfed?..and of course we will need to know how the CNM and the EIC results came out.  Last but not least...Titles???


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## chadf (Mar 10, 2010)

pass the butter


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

yea i am serious hes a amazing duck dog um and about the hips and stuff and eyes where would i get all that stuff certified at? cause i would realy like to breed him


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

i do know that his grandfather from the sires side was a champion


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## chadf (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> yea i am serious hes a amazing duck dog um and about the hips and stuff and eyes where would i get all that stuff certified at? cause i would realy like to breed him



talk with your vet, or pm some people on here. 
You want these test done so bad genetics aren't passed on and hurt the blood line! Too many people want money and don't care about good genetics which in turn hurt the breed as a whole!


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

thanks man i just called my vet and i plan on having these test done cause the last thing i want is for my dog to give bad genetics but im not worryed at all about him having anything wrong with him at all he's top notch.


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## chadf (Mar 10, 2010)

There are some pretty in depth test that need to be done! Contact some reputable breeders, there's also very knowledgable people on here! I'm sure a few that have seen this thread ,know all the test that need to be done. Not me, I'm still learning myself!


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## redfishwater (Mar 10, 2010)

hips cant be certified until the dog is two years old


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

thnks thats nice to know any bodyelse with any good advice


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## browning84 (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> yea i am serious hes a amazing duck dog




REALLY!!!.... Well I'll take 2 of em then once you find a willing dam


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## Burritoboy (Mar 10, 2010)

There is a lot that can be said on this topic, and you seem to have the right attitude and desire to breed your dog for the right reasons.  All of the test that need to be done are a good STARTING point.  If you take the time to run in him some hunt test, beyond an AKC Junior Test or an HRC Started Test you will begin to be able to demonstrate to the owners of potential dames and prospective puppy owners why Buck is a good choice.  Even then, you will need to sit back and consider what positive traits he will pass on the puppies.

I will give my dog as an example.  He will be turning two very soon, he has done very well in training and is progressing nicely towards his titles.  I have people who meet him ask me all the time when I am going to breed him, that they want a puppy.  I have no reason to believe that there will be any issues with any of the health clearances.  He is a great hunting partner who sits quietly and in place in the duck blind.  He is an absolute gentleman in the house and around people.  He has plenty of drive to retrieve and desire to learn in his training.  He sounds like a great candidate to stud, right?  All of that being said, I would say that I am slightly less than 50-50 on breeding him.  Why? Because for me to make the carefully thought out decision to pass his genetics along, I want to know that he has that IT FACTOR.  He has shown glimpses of it, but there are dogs out there who show a lot of IT.  Until I know for certain that I am *improving the breed*, I can't go out and breed him for just a quick buck.  

Does this mean I love my dog any less?  Absolutely not, and if anyone seriously ask that question I would consider those fighting words.  What it does mean is that there are plenty of "backyard breedings" that happen far too often, with the unfortunate consequence of passing along traits such as EIC, hip issues, etc.  The owners of these pets mean well, they love their dog and sincerely think that someone else will love one of their dog's offspring, BUT in my opinion that love in and of itself, is not a good enough reason to bring another litter of puppies into the world.  

There is a place for full blooded house pets, that are registered with the appropriate companies.  There will always be people out there who will breed dogs, as if their dog has a "right to keep the family name alive."  I am not so disillusioned that I think this will ever stop, but I do think that opportunities like this to ask tough and sensitive questions provide a good chance for education.  Good luck with your decision, it is one that should be made carefully, especially when you consider that you are offering him up for stud in such a public forum.  

If you want to have more incentive than simply "the betterment of the breed," look at it from a financial perspective.  Well bred, proven and certified studs command much more than a $200 stud fee.  Stud dogs who have "IT" can command well over $1,000 for some of their swimmers.


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

browning umm couldnt read the rest is there a problem?


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## Burritoboy (Mar 10, 2010)

This has the potential to be a very informative post for a lot of people.  Let's not let it degrade into personal insults.  I imagine that Browning84 was trying to type in a word for a female dog that the vulgarity sensors would not allow.


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

well i get where your coming from i completely understand like i said i am new at this you learn from trail and error am i right. i do plan to into some comps i missed my chance at the amatur dog comp in plains GA. even though he isnt two years old right now i didnt know how he would of preformed out there agaisnt the other dogs and im not just tryin to make a quick buck off of my dog. you see why i ask 200 is i realy dont know where to start the price at he comes from a great bloodline or is it the the amount of sucess in comps people are looking for


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

oh i wasnt trying to be a rump


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## NGaHunter (Mar 10, 2010)

Burritoboy said:


> There is a lot that can be said on this topic, and you seem to have the right attitude and desire to breed your dog for the right reasons.  All of the test that need to be done are a good STARTING point.  If you take the time to run in him some hunt test, beyond an AKC Junior Test or an HRC Started Test you will begin to be able to demonstrate to the owners of potential dames and prospective puppy owners why Buck is a good choice.  Even then, you will need to sit back and consider what positive traits he will pass on the puppies.
> 
> I will give my dog as an example.  He will be turning two very soon, he has done very well in training and is progressing nicely towards his titles.  I have people who meet him ask me all the time when I am going to breed him, that they want a puppy.  I have no reason to believe that there will be any issues with any of the health clearances.  He is a great hunting partner who sits quietly and in place in the duck blind.  He is an absolute gentleman in the house and around people.  He has plenty of drive to retrieve and desire to learn in his training.  He sounds like a great candidate to stud, right?  All of that being said, I would say that I am slightly less than 50-50 on breeding him.  Why? Because for me to make the carefully thought out decision to pass his genetics along, I want to know that he has that IT FACTOR.  He has shown glimpses of it, but there are dogs out there who show a lot of IT.  Until I know for certain that I am *improving the breed*, I can't go out and breed him for just a quick buck.
> 
> ...



Very well put....I wanted to breed my male, but @ 3 he showed me a trait that I didn't want to pass on..so off they came.  And on the 20th he will running AKC Master test in Thomasville


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## Burritoboy (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> well i get where your coming from i completely understand like i said i am new at this you learn from trail and error am i right. i do plan to into some comps i missed my chance at the amatur dog comp in plains GA. even though he isnt two years old right now i didnt know how he would of preformed out there agaisnt the other dogs and im not just tryin to make a quick buck off of my dog. you see why i ask 200 is i realy dont know where to start the price at he comes from a great bloodline or is it the the amount of sucess in comps people are looking for


 
I understand where you are coming from and applaud your humility.  There is a hunt test being held this weekend just north of Albany by the SOWEGA HRC, if you would like to come and join in or just watch.  Their website is www.sowegahrc.com just click on the link under the hunt test dates entitled "click for premium" the exact address and directions are included on the form.  They will have a couple of flights of finished test there, a portion of the dogs who run well in this level I would think are viable stud options.  Also understand that there are some labs bred for field trials, some for hunting, and some are crosses between the two.  

I will again use my dog as an example.  His frame is similar to your dog, though he does weigh significantly less.  Because of how he is built, he would never truly excel in a field trial scenario.  Field Trial champions are bred for a few things:

*EXCEPTIONAL MARKING ABILITY*, by that I mean when a bird goes down at over 350 yards they run out and put their front foot on it right away.

They also have a certain build, they tend to be a little longer legged to cover a lot of distance quickly.

Then there are the general traits that you want in any dog that you hope to enter into competitions.

My dog was blessed with great marking ability, and we work to improve on it 5 days a week, but if I were to ask him to take 50 different 1,000 yard sprints in a day or two it would be unfair.  Knowing this, I can go ahead and eliminate the consideration of any field trial breeding.  

The flip side of that is that many field trial dogs have so much energy and desire that you could not pay me to sit in a duck blind with them for a morning and they would not like it any more than I would.  Those dogs are bred for Field Trials, and that is what they do well.

My point in all this is to identify your dog's strengths and weaknesses.  With that knowledge of your dog- now look at any potential females and their strengths and weaknesses.  Don't be under the assumption that the pups will be a 50-50 mix, think about it for a second-aren't you more like either your father or mother and not a perfect blend.  There are steps that must be taken and honestly, if you are to do it right, it will take years to get to a point where there is a "right time and right place."

The price you charge is like anything else, it will be determined by supply and demand.  How many studs are out there with a complete package and then what does your dog really excel at that he brings to the table.  If an individual has a female that has it all, he wants to breed her, and he recognizes that he needs to breed her to a stud who has great line manners and is not very "cheaty."  Knowing that, the females owner will begin the search for a stud long before she ever goes into heat, and if he has trouble finding a stud, well the price for a stud fee just went up.   But, if that guy wants to put the odds of having a great litter in his favor, he will pay it.   At $200, Bubba from down the street will be interested, but not too many people with truly well bred AND accomplished females will be.   I can't honestly answer your question as to whether price is determined more on the basis of bloodline or success in competition, because both are necessary ingredients and a lot will depend on what characteristics your dog has and what the females owner is looking for.


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## Wood Smoke (Mar 10, 2010)

THANK YOU BURRITOBOY for taking the time to provide some well thought information and input!  






shootingace said:


> ..... i aint getting any where you know what i mean ......  comes from a good bloodline....
> 
> 
> AKC registered yellow Lab ....... Buck is a very muscular dog as you'll be able to tell in the pics for a lab he has the biggest neck ive ever seen his neck is 23 inches and he stands about 24 inches off the ground, he weighs100 pounds so he's pretty big. I'm asking $200 for the stud fee.


  

1.) Yes, I understand why you ain't getting anywhere.  
2.) If he's got the goods then post up a certified AKC pedigree ..... pretty standard stuff for most reputable stud dogs.
3.) No offense, but in my opinion his pictures don't exhibit some of the classic Lab looks or conformation.
4). *Health clearances ..... listen to what the others said!*
5.) Do you know what a "Dudley" is?  (Not a real issue, just a personal preference one way or the other for knowledgable lab owners. )

Sorry, but sometimes the unintentional, and generally well meaning, casual attitude toward backyard breeding gets me torqued.  I know that you love your dog and have enjoyed him while dove hunting.  Why don't you just leave it at that?  Meantime, keep working with him on training because the reward will truly be yours.


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

so your pretty much saying i shouldnt stud him off at all just because of his body frame


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## yellowduckdog (Mar 10, 2010)

Burritoboy said:


> I understand where you are coming from and applaud your humility.  There is a hunt test being held this weekend just north of Albany by the SOWEGA HRC, if you would like to come and join in or just watch.  Their website is www.sowegahrc.com just click on the link under the hunt test dates entitled "click for premium" the exact address and directions are included on the form.  They will have a couple of flights of finished test there, a portion of the dogs who run well in this level I would think are viable stud options.  Also understand that there are some labs bred for field trials, some for hunting, and some are crosses between the two.
> 
> I will again use my dog as an example.  His frame is similar to your dog, though he does weigh significantly less.  Because of how he is built, he would never truly excel in a field trial scenario.  Field Trial champions are bred for a few things:
> 
> ...



This is what this forum should be about...Helping


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

ok then thanks im still new at this yall know! i mean hes been trained for dove and ducks i cant explain to yall how awsome he is in the water or on land because yall are probably like well anybody that loves there dog would say that about him. but he preforms like a true trail dog at  times and i would like to bring that into his life its just im not sure what catogorie to put him in i would love to win some titles but i dont have a clue where to start. and im all against backyard breeding who wants to muddy up the water i surley do not!


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## NGaHunter (Mar 10, 2010)

Where is Andersonville, Ga?  If it is near Grantville, the Atlanta Retriever Club is having a training day at the Day-Didier Farm this Saturday and your invited to come out if you like.  It will get you a start on AKC Hunt Test and Field Trails....I am sure we will have some dogs that run each.  As where to get started in Testing here is a link to AKC for the rules and Regs
www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RHTRET.pdf

I will warn you that the games are addicting.


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## chadf (Mar 10, 2010)

Told you the educated Ones would chime in!!!!!!!


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## ngaduck (Mar 10, 2010)

Here is the link to UKC/HRC running rules. 

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/RulesIndex?OpenView&group=HR


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

thanks im southwest of macon and north of Albany Ga


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## cmk07c (Mar 10, 2010)

"The sire is Harper's Pride a chocolate. The Dam is Chirsty's Lady of Cheyenne a yellow."

I'm not an expert of breeding dogs, but I have owned a few in my lifetime, and the Dam and Sire is missing imortant letters in front of it, such as SH, JH, CH, FCH, etc..... Not saying they won't be good dogs, but as said earlier you probablly can't charge a stud fee, for breeding your lab with your neighbors lab. People take pride in the titles and championships that the family tree holds.


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

ill show you the pedigree as soon as it comes in im tellin you hes not from no dogs off the street he comes from a great bloodline full of champions ill post them as soon as they come in the mail.


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## cmk07c (Mar 10, 2010)

*took a while?*



shootingace said:


> ill show you the pedigree as soon as it comes in im tellin you hes not from no dogs off the street he comes from a great bloodline full of champions ill post them as soon as they come in the mail.




You don't have it already, when I got my pedigree for my GSP a couple years ago it came pretty quick, unless you waited to submit the forms. AKC is slacking, you need to get on them!


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

they are man i completely understand what yall are saying about performance health background, bloodline like i siad before i know what i have and hes great its just how do i know when hes ready for someone to be intrested in him not everyone can just work there dog 24/7 and be able to win some titles all the time ill never be able to do that until my feet are stable out of college .


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## injun joe (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> they are man i completely understand what yall are saying about performance health background, bloodline like i siad before i know what i have and hes great its just how do i know when hes ready for someone to be intrested in him not everyone can just work there dog 24/7 and be able to win some titles all the time ill never be able to do that until my feet are stable out of college .



gace, 
You got your heart in the right place. Listen to what others tell you and get with some guys who have working dogs and work them regularly. Everyone's got to start somewhere and you're plenty young enough to learn and enjoy if you keep at it.


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

is there any one close to me that has dogs and is willing to work with me i am a hour away from macon


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## Burritoboy (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> is there any one close to me that has dogs and is willing to work with me i am a hour away from macon



I am in Macon, and try to work 5 or so days a week.  Also, as I mentioned earlier there is a hunt test this weekend in Smithville which looks like it is about 30-40 minutes from you.  I will be there, as will many folks who know a lot more than I do.  Come and watch. 



shootingace said:


> so your pretty much saying i shouldnt stud him off at all just because of his body frame



Conformity of the dogs frame should be a consideration, yes.  Also, I would caution you with a dog that size to be VERY careful taking him dove hunting.  It is clear how much you love your pup and it would be awful to see anything happen to him from overheating in the field.  He won't know when to stop, it is our responsibility as their owners to look out for them and protect them from overdoing it, especially in the heat.


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## Wood Smoke (Mar 10, 2010)

shootingace said:


> so your pretty much saying i shouldnt stud him off at all just because of his body frame



No, actually not.  Any owner of a female will evaluate a potential stud on their own and make the decision whether or not the stud has the physical features that they are desiring.  I'm speaking in terms of well planned breedings and not in casual  "we just want puppies" backyard arrangements.

I also have a perspective of what you may be thinking, so I'm not just being only opiniated .....at least trying!  Years ago in my mid/late 20's, I had a big yellow male lab which lived to be 13 y/o.  He had the general classic lab look, was a wonderful companion, and was a half-baked retriever only because I didn't know how to train him.  He made one trip with us to Arkansas and even retrieved a banded wood duck of which I still have that band today.  I even had his hips xrayed out of concern for the dog,and the vet said they were "good" but didn't submit them for actual OFFA cert.  He was also given to me free and I had a litter pick along with lots of assertions that "the litter came from good bloodlines".  I did register him AKC.  However, he had a couple of physical features that always made me suspicious of his family tree ......   .... one was a tongue that was about 25% purple and the other was a tail that high curled much more than most labs. Maybe he was free for a reason! ha ha.    Other than that he was all lab .....body, legs, muzzle, eyes, etc.  I decided early on that he wasn't to be a daddy...ever!  No less, I loved that dog dearly and in 2000 when he died of old age I cried like a little kid for most of a day after having to take him to be put down.  My extended family came to the "emotional rescue" that night and had a cookout with about 15 folks over to eat and to celebrate that old dog's  life and the unconditional love that he gave all of us!  RIP Gunner ...... you are still well remembered!


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## shootingace (Mar 10, 2010)

yea i know i dont take him during the summer time he misses out on that i wait closer to 60 to 70 degree days to start taken him mostly duck hunten me and him do i just starten him out on doves i didnt want to over whellm him with a gaint woody you know what i mean


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## DUhollywood1 (Mar 10, 2010)

is your dog chasing a butterfly in your avatar pick? looks smart to me


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## 91xjgawes (Mar 10, 2010)

Good positive attitude to the constructive criticism.


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## browning84 (Mar 11, 2010)

There are two significant classes of labs. There are dogs bred for show and dogs bred for performance and rarely is there one that does great in both. The dog has a very stout build and could almost be passed as a show bred dog until you get to the head of the dog. He has a head like a Rottweiler. Breeders in the hunting or performance breed of labs do not lay as much emphasis on looks as someone in the show breed realm would with great reason but either way the performance breeds still need to look like labs. Even if this dog is good I would think the 20 pound water head the dog has would really exclude him from any breeding possibilities. One of the reasons there are sanctioned events such as Test and Trials, aside from the fun, is to prove your dog’s goods. You might “know” he has it but is he going to consistently have it at the line in front of a crowd. But to just say I know my dog is great and to expect everyone to say OK lets breed these two dogs is not how it works. But I still have to go back to the point that even if he is great he still lacks a major lab feature, his head. At this point I would say be happy with your dog and continue to train and have fun with him but I would really take breeding this dog out of the equation if I were you. That is based off his size and the way his head looks.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

thanks for all the information people ill just have to take into consideration that hes not the breeding type cause im sure yall know what yall are talkin about. i still got one question does he atleast look good to any of yall? and no hes not chasing a butterfly haha a buddy of my took that pic of him going after a dove i shot that was coming right down on top of him lol


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> i do know that his grandfather from the sires side was a champion



That doesn't mean doo doo.  Most any decent hunting lab has good papers.  Most have papers that are littered with champions.  

I hate to break this to you, but you are going about this in the wrong way.  People who buy hunting labs/dogs, are pretty diligent in staying away from backyard breeders.  And that's what you are whether you like it or not.  

Studding out dogs is a serious business and no matter how good YOUR lab might be, without all the papers, titles, and legitimacy that they bring, all you are hoping for is some redneck sucker who doesn't know any better to pay you. 

People who are serious about paying a stud fee, want to hunt over the dog, spend a lot of time with the dog, etc. before they even consider paying you any money.  

And then, why pay you when they can pay someone else who is highly experienced in breeding labs to stud the dog.  

He's a good looking dog, but that don't mean doo doo either.  My dog in the avatar comes from incredible hunting stock and her father won some hunt competitions although he wasn't a field trial dog. Mother was a field champion and had hunting titles, but wasn't nearly the hunter the father was.  My dog doesn't have any titles only because I'm not into that stuff.  I'm fairly certain she could pass many of the field trials and hunt tests now.  But my point is I don't plan on breeding her which is why I got her spade by the time she was 6 months old.   

If I DID plan on breeding her, then you better believe that I would do my homework on the stud dogs and that means you better have all the paperwork that you need to pass the initial litmus test.  Not to mention that in order for me to get the dogs to SELL, I would need to enter my dog into some AKC events and get her titles behind her, because that's what good breeders do and that's what sells dogs.  

If I were you, I would contact a professional breeder in the state, tell them thast you think you have an exceptional dog on your hands and would they be interested in studding out your dog for you.  You'd have to get the dogs hips checked along with the papers to the breeder.  At that point, if your dog seems like a worthy candidate, they will want you to drop the dog off for a couple of weeks so they can judge for themselves what kind of dog you have.

At that point, they will let you know whether or not your dog is worthy of being stud out.  

Until then, you're just hoping for a backyard breeder to pay you, and a backyard breeder can get any lab to stud for free typically without paying you for it.  

The other thing is, there is a crisis in this country with over populations of dogs and cats.  IF you aren't a professional, in my opinion, you need to stay away from breeding unless you know right now that there are ten people who want your dogs puppies.


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## straightshooter (Mar 11, 2010)

Wood Smoke said:


> THANK YOU BURRITOBOY for taking the time to provide some well thought information and input!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rest assured, the "Dudley" reference went over a bunch of heads...


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

straightshooter said:


> Rest assured, the "Dudley" reference went over a bunch of heads...



Here's a good answer on the "Dudley".  

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/yellow-pigment.html


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## straightshooter (Mar 11, 2010)

Skyjacker said:


> Here's a good answer on the "Dudley".
> 
> http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/yellow-pigment.html



I know what it is, but I'm sure that many who read this thread would not know.


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## NGaHunter (Mar 11, 2010)

Actually to be a dudley...the dog would have no pigmentation around the eyes which he has...its just is nose has lost it, like mine does...no dudley


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 11, 2010)

NGaHunter said:


> Actually to be a dudley...the dog would have no pigmentation around the eyes which he has...its just is nose has lost it, like mine does...no dudley



Why is it their noses turn a different color?  Both my yellows do the same thing.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

look everybodys got to start somewhere not every one can be a perfect breeder thats where your wrong i have just as much right to breed my dog as you do with your dog that has titles out the butt. and i am definaltey not a back yard breeder as you would call it you think that just because my dog doesnt have the IT factor and stuff like that hes not worthy  and is just  screwn up the gene pool and its realy not. even if i get all of the hips checkd and eyes and all of the other stuff and the titles theres dogs that have nothen but a akc registerd name that breed more than some champions


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## ericflowers (Mar 11, 2010)




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## ngaduck (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> look everybodys got to start somewhere not every one can be a perfect breeder thats where your wrong i have just as much right to breed my dog as you do with your dog that has titles out the butt.



Yes, you have the right.  However, that does not mean that you should breed you dog.  I think that I speak for a lot of people in this thread, breeding should be left to the professionals.  All everyone is saying is that breeding should be done to improve the breed.  There are a lot of people that should not procreate as well.  They have the right to do so, but they really shouldn't.  It's the same concept here.



shootingace said:


> even if i get all of the hips checkd and eyes and all of the other stuff and the titles theres dogs that have nothen but a akc registerd name that breed more than some champions



The people that breed those dogs could be considered "backyard breeders."


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## Burritoboy (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> look everybodys got to start somewhere not every one can be a perfect breeder thats where your wrong i have just as much right to breed my dog as you do with your dog that has titles out the butt. and i am definaltey not a back yard breeder as you would call it you think that just because my dog doesnt have the IT factor and stuff like that hes not worthy  and is just  screwn up the gene pool and its realy not. even if i get all of the hips checkd and eyes and all of the other stuff and the titles theres dogs that have nothen but a akc registerd name that breed more than some champions



You were SOOOO close.

As was said, and my Dad taught me:
"Just because you CAN, it does not mean you SHOULD"

Don't let your pride and love for your dog push you into an unwise decision, or at the bare minimum a premature decision.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

right right! but you know learnin comes with age and i still got alot of growen up to do ya know. it doesnt hurt to want too!


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

Tell you what shootingace, copy and paste your dogs pedigree on the forum and lets take a look at it.  Like others have said, you have every right to breed your dog, but that doesn't mean you should.  

The best thing you can do is contact a few people in the business.  Talk to Ashley Bloodworth at www.ashlandkennel.com and some others who are in the Atlanta Retriever CLub who put on AKC trials.  Youll learn a lot from them. 

Of course, you can just say screw that,  and breed your dog anyway...  in which case, you ARE a backyard breeder whether you like the term or not.  

If you want to make money breeding your dog as a backyard breeder, my first suggestion is buy a dog that has exceptional papers to it and has its hips certified.  Otherwise, no one is going to pay you to breed their dog with yours no matter how exceptional he may be as a companion and hunter.  

On a side note, have you force fetched your dog?


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

im still waiting on my pedigree to come in the mail how long is this going to take i sent my information in months ago and im not tryin to be a jerk about all of this. and of course im not going to say srew this im going to check into it to see what i need to do and where i should start im glad you all are trying to help you got more experiance than me i see but you still got to understand where im comeing from im not trying to make a quick buck off of my dog.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

and what you mean by forced fetch?


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> and what you mean by forced fetch?



It means your dog hasn't undergone a level of training it should if you want to display his talents.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

oh then no would like to i want to realy start getting involed in the sport


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> oh then no would like to i want to realy start getting involed in the sport



Well then instead of jumping right to the end game, why don't you get into training your current dog to perfection.  Join in on some AKC field trial events whether you enter your dog or not.  Talk to some good breeders around the state who will also be at these AKC events.

Then maybe later on once you get a feel for how it all works, then you can talk about breeding your dog, or even the next one.

There are a series of books that are a must read for any trainer although I think some of the info is obsolete.  Gun Dog and Water Dog by Richard Wolters.  Read it.  And then evaluate your dog by that book.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

ok ill do that thanks for pointin me in a good direction


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## Wood Smoke (Mar 11, 2010)

browning84 said:


> ......... the 20 pound water head



  .....Ouch!   , give the kid some slack! 


 I think we should all relax a little and look at this from his young and eager perspective. Unfortunately, I too didn't understand Gace's youthful age until well after my post (Thanks Injun for the tip!), and was probably a little more pointed than should have been.  He's still a teenager and us older geezers need to help be mentors instead of finger pointers.  That includes me and my novice abilities and knowlege on the subject, and there are others far more qualified on the training topic than me. I too am still learning lots about retrievers! 

Ace, .... you apparently have a real zeal for learning about retrievers and a desire to train your dog.  *Get involved with a retriever club as there are several in the state.  First, its a lot of fun! Second, you will have more opportunities to train your dog and get lots of friendly, free help. Lastly, you will meet lots of other freindly, great family type folks *who want to do the same thing ..... it's not just a bunch of opinionated old geezers who don't want to share what they know. There are probably as many or more women involved in these clubs as men too.  There are multiple AKC and HRC clubs in the state, and this is the time of year to go and watch their spring trials and hunt test.  It will be worth a Saturday for you to go do that.  Introduce yourself, ask lots of questions, and stick around to watch dogs of all abilites be challenged.  You will be glad you did. 

I will say one thing as seen in the pics ...... your dog has a really nice fox red coat and it looks like he is well cared for.  Whatever you are feeding him, it seems to suit him well.  Good luck!


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

thanks sir i feed him nothing but purina dog chow. thats another thing about him i love ive never seen a lab with as much red in his coat as his i think its very unique.


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## Skyjacker (Mar 11, 2010)

shootingace said:


> thanks sir i feed him nothing but purina dog chow. thats another thing about him i love ive never seen a lab with as much red in his coat as his i think its very unique.



Fox Red Labs are growing in popularity.  Lots of breeders up North that are breeding them.  They are  a spin off of the yellow lab.  They're just darker.  If you google fox red labradors you'll find a lot of breeders.


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## shootingace (Mar 11, 2010)

so if hes a fox red lab would i need to change his color on his registration or is he still considerd a yellow and is that where his frame is diffferent from other labs


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## JDAWG (Mar 11, 2010)

considered a yellow. Listen to all the advice given.


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## straightshooter (Mar 11, 2010)

There are only three colors in the Lab breed:  black, yellow and chocolate.  There are color variations of the recessive colors.  Yellows range from almost white to yellow to the fox red color of your dog.  

One of the problems with the "backyard" breeder is that they try to get cute with the color phases.  The dominant color in the breed is black.  Early on, puppies born any color but black were destroyed in order to preserve the black gene pool.  

The old timers in the game will tell you that you don't want to breed recessive color dogs with each other.  Sadly there are many Labs that are being registered as pure that may not be.  

I've been away from the field trials and breeding for a number of years now, but I did own the first ever chocolate Lab to earn two Master Hunting titles (AKC & NAHRA) and my last chocolate earned around 700 HRC points and was a HRCH before the age of two.

Now, that being said, we need to give "ace" a break.  He's proud of his dog, but he just doesn't know all of this stuff.  There are thousands of "aces" out there who own dogs and have none of the knowledge being discussed here, and that's a scary thought.

My suggestion to them is to gather as much knowledge as possible about retrievers and training.  The fact that "ace" has a dog almost two years of age will make some of the fine tuning that should have been put in the dog many months ago a bit tougher.  At least he sounds like he's open to learning some things about the breed and training.  I wish him luck.


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## hogdawg (Mar 12, 2010)

I thought silver was a color too


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## chadf (Mar 12, 2010)

hogdawg said:


> I thought silver was a color too



It was going good!!! Don't throw a wrench in the wheel.....

browning you had me rofl


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## shootingace (Mar 12, 2010)

haha! so im headed to a trial in smithville this weekend to see what all training and so forth i have comin towards me in the future so that i can try to enter him into some


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## hogdawg (Mar 12, 2010)

chadf said:


> It was going good!!! Don't throw a wrench in the wheel.....



Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Shootingace, you've gotten some good advice from these guys.  Listen to them.  It's good to see your enthusiasm.  Hopefully, it can be channeled in the right direction.  I'll be in Smithville Saturday.  Maybe I'll see you there.


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## Popgunner (Mar 12, 2010)

Ace,

Follow this link.  It has info which will help you speak the language.


http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17334&sid=9484a8f9b8421b0df0ca9e0cd1695711

Glad to hear you are going to the test tomorrow.  It will be an eye-opener for you.

Good luck


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## straightshooter (Mar 12, 2010)

shootingace said:


> haha! so im headed to a trial in smithville this weekend to see what all training and so forth i have comin towards me in the future so that i can try to enter him into some



You'll be around a pretty informal crowd, but their trial rules are quite formal.  Don't expect to be able to trot your dog all over the place on trial grounds.  If you do get him out of the truck, make sure he is collared and on a leash.  Remember that you're going there to observe and learn.  

You will see different levels of work.  The younger dogs will only have to exhibit marking and modest control.  Many  of them will be under a year old.  The Senior or Seasoned level dogs must have control, marking and handling capabilities.  The Master level dogs will have to do it all.  This includes multiple marks, honoring, diversion birds and blinds on water and land.  You will see sloppy dog and handler work and you'll see some great animals.  Enjoy.


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## browning84 (Mar 12, 2010)

Yea he’s young and maybe we should cut him some slack, but I’m not feeling that nice. He keeps saying he wants to learn and do it right and that he realizes his mistake and he wants to make it right. Then he reads all the posts and gets defensive and conjures up in his head that screw them I do have a right to breed my dog and he justifies it by saying you have to start somewhere. Your right you do have to start somewhere and so you chose here to start here but to say as far as breeding goes you have to start somewhere is a load of crap and a sorry excuse to process with a bad breeding. Where you start is good genetics and intelligence then good training, and then the proving grounds, once you prove good genetics and performance you have shown the public a good stud. Then you would need to consider your dogs type when putting him up for stud. For example Shooter is a Type A and at times he can be Type A++++, that is just the kind of dog he is some may even say he has a trial dog type/mentality, I don’t necessarily take much to that theory, but many equate Type A with lots of go and that is true. Everyone wants a type A till they own one. This being said, you would want to know what kind of dog he is because you wouldn’t want to breed two type A’s you want an A and a B and if it a severe A then maybe even a C to even out the qualities. I would say the best would be two B’s. Anyways I got a little side tracked to the issue, and that is that you are making excuses to justify a bad breeding. Good information has been given in multiple postings now it is up to you to use the. To say you don’t need titles to breed well you are correct that is true. But to prove that you are breeding for the betterment of the breed you do, because there are so many people like you that want to breed fido because we love him and he is so good at what he does, is the reason testing and trialing are important. If you care about the breed then wait, learn the ropes, learn how to train and what to train for. Take this dog through proper channels and let him be your building block on how things should be done. Find your sport and figure out what realm you like best, then check out some breedings that will provide a dog that will best suit your training, test/trialing, and hunting needs. Then once you have a lab that has decent confirmation, train and prove his ability and you will have your stud. I still stand by my previous comment whether they are mean or not. Your dog does not have decent confirmation as a Lab, and that alone should exclude him from the breeding pool. In the realm of performance lab confirmation is second to performance but it is still considered.


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## chadf (Mar 12, 2010)

Shooting straight as normal! Blunt but true!!!! 

His eyes will be opened tomorrow!
Have fun out there, it will be good for you to go see.


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## benellisbe (Mar 12, 2010)

01Foreman400 said:


> Why is it their noses turn a different color?  Both my yellows do the same thing.



Snow Nose/Winter Nose... Theory has to do with sunlight exposure and pigmentation.  It should be dark again as the season changes.  There are several theories that have to do with plastic dog bowls, etc.  It can also be a sign of a medical issue.  With age, a yellow labs nose will gradually lighten and won't be as dark as it was as a puppy.

'Luke at 7.5 weeks - notice his nose






'Luke at 8 months - notice how light his nose is during the winter





Edit: Sorry about the Copyright stuff, had a guy trying to sell a dog he didn't own (my dog in the picture) and a friend turned me onto it.


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## browning84 (Mar 12, 2010)

If you are going to Smithville also remember that if you want to be part of the gallery you need to be dressed in something dark and preferably camo. Also a word to the wise, for those of you participating in Smithville make sure you are fully camo’ed. Most every test use to be fairly lenient about this and would let you run with any pants and a camo shirt. SOWEGA cracked down on this and required camo pants last fall when I ran. Not a big deal just letting everyone know that SOWEGA is doing it big this year and many clubs are getting back to what HRC was in the beginning. The best thing to know as a newbie is to shut your mouth and open your eyes. If you want to see the big dogs run (future and current studs) go check out all flights of Finished. Honestly for your first visit to a test I would keep the pooch at home, it’s not a dog park it’s a dog event. You will learn a lot, SOWEGA is my home club and I highly respect everyone running the show down there, they are a well oiled machine and by far put on the best jam up test in the southeast twice a year. You picked a good test to visit. I hope someone here will contact you via PM to meet with you down there to fill you in as to what is going on during the test.


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## shootingace (Mar 12, 2010)

ok well ill be there tomorrow in full camo correct!


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## Skyjacker (Mar 12, 2010)

shootingace said:


> ok well ill be there tomorrow in full camo correct!



Make sure you wear a yellow hat if you plan on bringing your dog.  Also, only mossy oak camo is accepted.  If you don't have true Mossy Oak you need to wear anything in bright plaid or paisley.


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## shootingace (Mar 12, 2010)

does anybody got the adress to this places?


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## illinoishunter77 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hasn't this thread run it's course?


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 12, 2010)

benellisbe said:


> Snow Nose/Winter Nose... Theory has to do with sunlight exposure and pigmentation.  It should be dark again as the season changes.  There are several theories that have to do with plastic dog bowls, etc.  It can also be a sign of a medical issue.  With age, a yellow labs nose will gradually lighten and won't be as dark as it was as a puppy.
> 
> 'Luke at 7.5 weeks - notice his nose
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response.  You can throw the plastic bowl theory out the window.  Neither of mine eat or drink out of plastic bowls.  Both of their noses also change to black once the temps get warmer in the spring and summer.


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## Thompkins1 (Mar 12, 2010)

I bet if you bred those mystical color changing labs you could make a lot of money. and ive never heard of a silver lab. do any of you who know labs want to fill me in?


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 13, 2010)

Thompkins1 said:


> I bet if you bred those mystical color changing labs you could make a lot of money.



What?


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## injun joe (Mar 13, 2010)

01Foreman400 said:


> Thanks for the response.  You can throw the plastic bowl theory out the window.  Neither of mine eat or drink out of plastic bowls.  Both of their noses also change to black once the temps get warmer in the spring and summer.



OK, that settles it. It's global warming.


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## browning84 (Mar 15, 2010)

Thompkins1 said:


> I bet if you bred those mystical color changing labs you could make a lot of money. and ive never heard of a silver lab. do any of you who know labs want to fill me in?



Yes some yellows have noses that change color, I personally have seen this happen. As far as a silver lab is concerned, and I not sure why it has to be brought up randomly in threads but there is no such thing, kind of like sasquatch, there are fanatics that believe they are real but the rest of us sit back and point and laugh.


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## bh4mr1ck (Mar 15, 2010)

shootingace said:


> haha! so im headed to a trial in smithville this weekend to see what all training and so forth i have comin towards me in the future so that i can try to enter him into some


 

Did you make it to the trials this weekend? I was there and saw some impressive dogs perform. If you are truly interested in the training of a good retriever join the SOWEGA chapter of the HRC and find someone there who will help you learn.

www.huntingretrieverclub.org/

Good Luck!

BTW - In answer to your earlier question, yes you do have a good looking dog. He is not my personal preference, to me looks too much like a show Lab, but a good looking dog none-the-less. If he has the drive to retrieve and please you then I would get started with a good program ASAP. Forget about the breeding right now.


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