# What is it??



## sullivanfire1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Can anyone tell me what this is, appx age and what it is worth? All I can tell you is that it is a 12 ga.

Thx for the help.


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## leoparddog (Jul 12, 2011)

Is the only stamping Batvia NY?  Without the name of a high quality manufacturer stamped on the gun, its value may vary from sentimental only to a few hundred dollars.  In the late 1800's to say around 1930 or so there were many shotgun makers that produced affordable shotguns for the american market that were distributed and stamped with hardware store chain names, distributor names or "manufacturer" names.  So one shotgun maker may have stamped 50 different maker names on shotguns.  

There are only a few makers of shotguns during this period whose guns have any real value now.

Try this link and look at "Baker".  http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5

If you do some searches on Baker and Batvia, you may find more information.


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## sullivanfire1 (Jul 12, 2011)

*Baker*



leoparddog said:


> Is the only stamping Batvia NY?  Without the name of a high quality manufacturer stamped on the gun, its value may vary from sentimental only to a few hundred dollars.  In the late 1800's to say around 1930 or so there were many shotgun makers that produced affordable shotguns for the american market that were distributed and stamped with hardware store chain names, distributor names or "manufacturer" names.  So one shotgun maker may have stamped 50 different maker names on shotguns.
> 
> There are only a few makers of shotguns during this period whose guns have any real value now.
> 
> ...



It does have Baker stamped on it.


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## Lukikus2 (Jul 12, 2011)

I've got an old Fulton like that. It will kick the snot out of you. Great turkey shoot guns.


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## fishtail (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh my goodness.



Baker Gun Company, made 1903-1933.

In 1987 their low end shotgun was valued at $300.

High end $5000.

Sorry all I have is drawings of them in the book and no real good descriptions.


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## sullivanfire1 (Jul 12, 2011)

*High End?*



fishtail said:


> Oh my goodness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am assuming this is high end? All the others that I have seen do not have the engravings like this one. Thx


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## boneboy96 (Jul 12, 2011)

i am trying to find info on the baker too, mine is a 12ga side by side with the twisted barrel. i found 5 different bakers listed in the 1997 gun trades guide. batavia ejector $774, leader hamerless $450, special $325, black beauty $750, grade r $1000, grade s $765, and paragon $1500-$3700. i'm not sure which if any of these model is mine or how to tell them apart, there is a brief description for each. glen gbalko@sbcglobal.net 




Answer 
You can add three more grades - Paragon Model NN (special order only), Expert Grade, and Deluxe Grade - with even higher prices listed. The Standard Catalog has pictures, but not good enough to really determine the grade of the one in-hand. Most found have only the simplest engraved scene or none at all and have 'been through the mill' with little or no original finish remaining which takes them out of the collector class. The Blue Book indicates that these 'no finish' guns are typicaly priced in the $275-$400 range. 



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Baker_shotgun_worth#ixzz1RvINU1ta


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## Resica (Jul 12, 2011)

That's a Yankee gun. You better ship it back north where it belongs. Address to follow.................


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## fishtail (Jul 12, 2011)

Best I can tell squinting at the drawings, yours is neither the high end or low end.
All but one has the "Ithaca Style" game scene of the dog and bird and all have checkered stocks. 
The high end ones (at least what I'm looking at) have numerous engraving embellishments, even to what appears to be flames on the receiver behind the bumps where the end of the barrel contacts the frame.
Different barrels were used on these things and I'm not able to distinguish them.
Damascus steel, homotensile steel, Kruppfluid steel and Flui-tempered steel barrels. 
I'm guessing by this 1987 book and using that years prices your gun might be as high as $1000 and as low as $425.
Here is the list I have of the models.
Batavia Ejector (automatic ejectors)
Batavia Leader (automatic or plain ejectors)
Batavia Special (plain ejectors)
Black Beauty Special (automatic or plain ejectors)
Grade R (same as the Leader model but Damascus or Krupp fluid barrel, nice engravings, automatic or plain ejectors)
Grade S (same as the Leader model but Flui-tempered steel barrel, nice engravings, automatic or plain ejectors)
Paragon Grade (automatic or plain ejectors)
Paragon Expert Grade
Paragon Deluxe Grade 

You might get lucky and rule out one of these models. Note the Special has plain ejectors. If yours has automatic ejectors, you can rule out it being a Special, if it has plain ejectors, you can rule it out being a Batavia Ejector. 
I'd ask for better pictures but it won't do you any good from my end with what I have at hand.

And everything boneboy has posted is consistent with these firearms and I agree with him.


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## Whiteeagle (Jul 12, 2011)

Resembles my old New York Arms sxs double, Made by Cresent Arms as a "store gun". Cresent was a part of Fulton and made guns with sundry names for several years from late 1800's to mid 1920's, some twists, some damascus and lots of fluid steel. Earliest models had shorter chambers and shot blackpowder loads. Mine has a lot of sentimental value but like most, not much monitary value. Shoots good, but mostly wall hanger. Got mine as a teenager back in 1958, first double bird gun!


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## sullivanfire1 (Jul 13, 2011)

Found it !! It is a Baker "R" grade late. Check out the site, some pretty good info....

http://www.bakercollectors.com/index.php?p=1_10_Photos


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## CAL (Jul 13, 2011)

Side locks look like an L.C.Smith to me.


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## fishtail (Jul 13, 2011)

Good goin!
Now all you have to do is determine if its a Damascus or Krupp barrel and if it has automatic or plain ejectors
I was looking at that site last night and apparently missed photo's of the R Grade Late. Do remember looking at the Early R Grade pictures.
Have you located the "R" stamp in this location to confirm it?





and I don't need to hear any crap about needing to clean this gun


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## ylhatch (Jul 13, 2011)

man that thing is dirty


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## Gun Guru (Jul 14, 2011)

CAL said:


> Side locks look like an L.C.Smith to me.



I thought the same thing.


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## boneboy96 (Jul 14, 2011)

CAL said:


> Side locks look like an L.C.Smith to me.





Gun Guru said:


> I thought the same thing.




BAKER SHOTGUNS ARE ONE OF THE ORIGINAL BIG SIX OF AMERICAN GUNS THIS LIST INCLUDES PARKER, LEFEVER, A.H. FOX, LC SMITH, ITHACA, AND BAKER. BAKERS ARE TRUE SIDELOCK SHOTGUNS AND GRADES ARE DETERMINED BY THE AMOUNT OF ENGRAVING ON THE SIDE PLATES. THE BATAVIA LEADER AND BLACK BEAUTY FOR EXAMPLE HAVE COLOR CASEHARDENED SIDELOCKS BUT NO ENGRAVED SCENES, THE R AND S SERIES ARE HIGH GRADE BAKERS WITH MODESTLY ENGRAVED SIDELOCKS. THE PARAGON, EXPERT AND DELUXE GRADES ARE ALL MADE TO ORDER OR "BESPOKE" GUNS. PARAGON GRADES HAVE SCENES OF POINTERS (DOGS) ON THE SIDELOCKS AND USUALLY HAVE THE BUYERS INITIALS ENGRAVED ON THE TRIGGER GUARD, DELUXE AND EXPERT GRADES WERE INTRODUCED IN 1919 AND ALL HAD A NEW CROSSBOLT LOCKUP AS WELL AS ENGRAVED RECEIVERS AND SIDELOCKS. BAKERS ARE NOT AS WELL KNOWN AS PARKERS/AH FOX BUT ARE EVERY BIT AS WELL MADE AND COLLECTABLE. WM BAKER WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN FOUNDING LC SMITH AND ITHACA GUN COMPANY. 



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Baker_shotgun_worth#ixzz1S4nikxUb


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 14, 2011)

the "New Baker" guns from Batavia were economy guns and should not be confused with the W.H. Baker / Syracuse top shelf stuff.


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## grizzley30814 (Jul 14, 2011)

Looks just like the one hanging above the office door in my house. Like you I don't have a lot of history on it except it was my great grandfathers and has been passed down. Mine has the damascus barrels and was stolen from my grandfathers house in the late 80's early 90's. He kept it wrap in some kind of plastic in the closet?????? Anyway it was found by some kids behind the house in the woods and they turned it in to the cops and luckily we got it back. I got it cleaned up enough to make it presentable and hung it over the door. 

It's worth more to me the what any books says though.


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