# 270 vs muzzleloader



## markantony57 (May 26, 2009)

I have a question for everyone. I'm looking at getting a new gun soon and have been looking at the 270 rifle for a while. I went to BPS the other day and was talking to the man behind the counter. He mentioned that with the new technologies in muzzleloaders, a .50 cal was just as good as a 270 and in some ways better, even cheaper. Now, I am a novice at muzzleloaders. Never had one, don't mind having one if it not too complicated and gets the job done. What do you guys think?


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## Lead Poison (May 26, 2009)

While it is true there have been major advancements in muzzleloader technolgy, if given the choice between the two, I'll take a good shooting 270 Win. over a muzzleloader any day of the week.  

Of course I know others will disagree.


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## HandgunHTR (May 26, 2009)

Comparing a .270 Winchester to a .50 caliber muzzleloader is like comparing oranges to cantelopes.

If you are limited to only shooting 150 yards or less then the only similarity is that they will both kill deer dead.  That is where the similarities end.  They are not ballistically similar, they are not operationally similar and they don't even smell the same.

Past 150 yards, even that one similarity goes away as the .50 caliber muzzleloader becomes less reliable at hitting the deer, and therefore death may not be assured.

But then again, you should know better than to trust anyone behind the gun counter at a big-box store, and most gun stores for that matter.


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## sandhillmike (May 26, 2009)

Muzzle loaders are great during muzzle loader season, after that, not so much.


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## bearpugh (May 26, 2009)

i think that salesman is an idiot with an overstock of bp guns.


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## NOYDB (May 26, 2009)

Why were you asking the shoe salesman about guns?

Different tools for different circumstances. Both are fun. You want one of each.... to start.


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## killitgrillit (May 26, 2009)

*savage*

If your interested in a muzzleloader the only one I would get would be a savage ml10II smokeless. It is nothing like a conventional muzzleloader, it's more like a high power rifle. 
It's good out to 200yds easy and futher if you can do it.
 there's no cleanup like a regular muzzleloader.
 And in GA, you can use it to hunt deer with during Muzzle season and high power, you can hog hunt on WMA with it, you can turkey hunt with it. you can legely shoot bobcats and fox with it during season. And that is one of many reasons I have one.
 Who wants to go to a WMA hog hunting with a 22 rimfire when I can take a 50 cal that shoot a 250 grn bullet 2400 fps accuratly out to 200 yds.
just my .02cents worth


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## one hogman (May 26, 2009)

*270 vs ML*

I agree you need both,  the guy who said it is about the same is a dolt, and the ML with pellets and powerbelts is not cheap to shoot, some of the bullets are over a $1.00 a piece but what is cheap these days, It is true you can hunt WMA with them instead of a rimfire there is a lot of versatility with a good ML I would not recommend the Savage unless you are a handloader or really a gun guy, you really have to be precise in your measurements of smokeless powder or you can create a bomb, The   Savage is powerful and expensive to buy but not simple to use my 2 cts.


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## killitgrillit (May 26, 2009)

one hogman said:


> I agree you need both,  the guy who said it is about the same is a dolt, and the ML with pellets and powerbelts is not cheap to shoot, some of the bullets are over a $1.00 a piece but what is cheap these days, It is true you can hunt WMA with them instead of a rimfire there is a lot of versatility with a good ML I would not recommend the Savage unless you are a handloader or really a gun guy, you really have to be precise in your measurements of smokeless powder or you can create a bomb, The   Savage is powerful and expensive to buy but not simple to use my 2 cts.



Disagree, very easy to use. I use a lee 3.1cc dipper and AA5744. just dip it down in the can, level it off pour it down the chamber and load you bullet. 
And it's a lot less to shoot then a regular muzzleloadder
100 hornady 250grn xtp's 24.00 and 100 sabots 16.00


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## Milkman (May 26, 2009)

markantony57 said:


> I have a question for everyone. I'm looking at getting a new gun soon and have been looking at the 270 rifle for a while. I went to BPS the other day and was talking to the man behind the counter. He mentioned that with the new technologies in muzzleloaders, a .50 cal was just as good as a 270 and in some ways better, even cheaper. Now, I am a novice at muzzleloaders. Never had one, don't mind having one if it not too complicated and gets the job done. What do you guys think?



Take care to avoid that salesman unless you need directions to the restroom or need to know the time. I own both a 270 and a 50 caliber ML. There is NO comparison IMO.

If it weren't for the special season and having the early jump on gun season I would retire my 50 cal. You do have accuracy with the modern ML , but not the knockdown or pass through that a centerfire has. Deer will run and have to be tracked in many instances has been my experience.


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## tcward (May 26, 2009)

bearpugh said:


> i think that salesman is an idiot with an overstock of bp guns.


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## Nicodemus (May 26, 2009)

Both have their practical uses. Both are deadly, when used properly.


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## whitworth (May 26, 2009)

*I believe someone*

had their shovel out.  The kind they use to clean out a Louisiana mule barn.


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## one hogman (May 26, 2009)

killitgrillit said:


> Disagree, very easy to use. I use a lee 3.1cc dipper and AA5744. just dip it down in the can, level it off pour it down the chamber and load you bullet.
> And it's a lot less to shoot then a regular muzzleloadder
> 100 hornady 250grn xtp's 24.00 and 100 sabots 16.00



Hey Killitgrillit, I was talking about the price of the gun, the last I looked the 110Ml was about$$ 700.00 and hard to find, and do you carry your powder can around with you??  you can premeasure but if you have another ML and get the charges swapped, it was good knowing you, you can get away with a sloppy charge on black powder , Pyrodex  and other substitutes but NOT smokeless that was my main point. If you doubt this you won't for long.


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## deerehauler (May 26, 2009)

one hogman said:


> I agree you need both,  the guy who said it is about the same is a dolt, and the ML with pellets and powerbelts is not cheap to shoot, some of the bullets are over a $1.00 a piece but what is cheap these days, It is true you can hunt WMA with them instead of a rimfire there is a lot of versatility with a good ML I would not recommend the Savage unless you are a handloader or really a gun guy, you really have to be precise in your measurements of smokeless powder or you can create a bomb, The   Savage is powerful and expensive to buy but not simple to use my 2 cts.



 I have the savage muzzleloader and it is the first muzzleloader I have ever owned.  It is the easiest thing to load. I use a leveled off 3.1 cc dipper of aa5744 as per Savage 10ml muzzleloader operator manual. It does not take a rocket scientist to load or shoot this gun just common sence. It cost me hardly anything to shoot. It is also very accurate. It is just as accurate as my 30-06 is out to 200 yards I am not sure beyond that because I have never shot any farther than that.


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## rebelbuckhunter (May 26, 2009)

270 win. one of the best guns you can ever buy and the most flat shootin gun at that. my 270 mossberg  i would take that over my savage 7 mag any day


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## Dead Eye Eddy (May 27, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Take care to avoid that salesman unless you need directions to the restroom or need to know the time. I own both a 270 and a 50 caliber ML. There is NO comparison IMO.
> 
> If it weren't for the special season and having the early jump on gun season I would retire my 50 cal. You do have accuracy with the modern ML , but not the knockdown or pass through that a centerfire has. Deer will run and have to be tracked in many instances has been my experience.



X2.  The only reason I have a ML is the extra week of gun season.  I've killed 3 deer with mine, missed 2 more, and passed up several since they gave us the first ML season.  I've never yet taken my ML in the woods during centerfire season.

I interchange between a .30-06 and .270 during centerfire season.  Unless I can see a long, long way, I really don't have a preference.  At 200+, I'd rather have the .270 because the .30-06 starts dropping faster at that distance.  This year, I added a 7-08 to my arsenal.  It'll probably be my climber gun most of the time, because it's so short and light compared to my other two rifles.


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## hawgrider1200 (May 27, 2009)

If I could have only one deer rifle, I'd buy a muzzleloader. I'd buy one of the TC Omegas or a TC Encore. Both can handle the 150 grain magnum muzzleloader charges and are advertised as being deadly out to 250 yds. I don't hunt clearcuts, food plots or powerlines, most of my hunting spots visability is limited to 50 to one hundred yards anyhow. (they tell me the big bucks hang out in the thickest stuff they can find) Being as how I can and do own more than one deer rifle, I don't generally take my muzzleloader to the woods nowdays unless it's muzzleloader season or my freezer is almost full. If I wasn't so crazy about shooting BP my choice of deer rifle would be a TC Icon. I have one chambered in the new 30calTC cartridge and got to the range with it the other day. it is a tackdriver. comes from the factory with the receiver bedded and the barrel floated and guaranteed less than MOA accuracy. Made in USA and that's good enough for me.


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## Jim Thompson (May 27, 2009)

personally, all I shoot now is my encore smoker.  I even went so far as to sell all my other rifles.

BUT if you are just starting out and want to get started and enjoy what you are doing from day one then I would suggest a good 270 in just about any of the popular brands.  get something that feels good when you shoulder it and then learn how to use it and keep learning how to use it.

later down the road pick up a good smoker and you may never look back, but give it some time so that you do it right and dont get frustrated with it


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## 01Foreman400 (May 27, 2009)

HandgunHTR said:


> But then again, you should know better than to trust anyone behind the gun counter at a big-box store, and most gun stores for that matter.



Enough said.


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## stev (May 27, 2009)

These muzzleloaders will shoot as far a a 270 accuratly.
http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/


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## cathooker (May 27, 2009)

I own three 270s. I own MLs. I have yet to see a ML that will shoot with the accuracy that my 270s will shoot. Don't get me wrong I do love to hunt with my MLs. I have been hunting for 50 years and with the knowledge that I have now I would advise a beginner to get a 270 first and after he becomes accomplished with it then get a ML. Good luck on your endeavor.


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## one hogman (May 27, 2009)

*270 vs ML*

The ML fills a niche of hunting seasons ,I have taken Deer, Hogs and Turkey with mine I really like it during turkey season if a Hog steps out, but when we are hunting gun season I want my 7mag if I am going to sit where I can see 200 yds or better. personally I don't care for a .270


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## fi8shmasty (May 27, 2009)

I think that is one of The Most Ignorant/Stupid statements I have ever heard.  Less cleaning,more power, more velocity and a Heck of A lot of More Range versus a club that you have to shoot to unload and clean often. Oh and don't forget about Rain. 
 Lets try them both out to say, 500 yards and see which one you would like to use on a Deer or Elk or sheep,goats and antelope.


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## coastalredneck (May 27, 2009)

bearpugh said:


> i think that salesman is an idiot with an overstock of bp guns.



yea, if its the savannah BPS. just go in there and point at what you want....dont ask any questions. Excuse me...not all of them are unedumicated?


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## Jim Thompson (May 28, 2009)

cathooker said:


> I own three 270s. I own MLs. I have yet to see a ML that will shoot with the accuracy that my 270s will shoot.



hey now!!! at 100 yards I shoot better with my smoker than any rifle Ive ever owned.  very very fine and tight clovers

that being said, get a rifle to start with until your ready to move on


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## Milkman (May 28, 2009)

cathooker said:


> I own three 270s. I own MLs. I have yet to see a ML that will shoot with the accuracy that my 270s will shoot. Don't get me wrong I do love to hunt with my MLs. I have been hunting for 50 years and with the knowledge that I have now I would advise a beginner to get a 270 first and after he becomes accomplished with it then get a ML. Good luck on your endeavor.



I use the 50 cal. magnum and dont have any complaint about accuracy or groups. My issue is knock down and pass thru.I havent found a load that gives me this yet.

 I have hunted with it for several years and have taken about 8 deer with the ML,  But I have wounded and lost some deer and of those 8 kills, only 1 fell within sight of the place I shot it.

Not wanting to derail this members thread. Maybe I need to start another.


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## 01Foreman400 (May 28, 2009)

stev said:


> These muzzleloaders will shoot as far a a 270 accuratly.
> http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/



Those are very nice.  But the price


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## Dub (May 29, 2009)

You just can't go wrong with a .270 Win.....simply one of the "great ones".

Today's bullet choices make it a major performer at any practical range and a peach to shoot.

Only time you'll find me with my .50cal smokepole is during that season....outside of that you'll see me toting a .270 or other.


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## turkeys101 (May 30, 2009)

270 and a muzzleloader are both excellent guns.but the muzzleloader has far more power than the 270.muzzleloader all day long.


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## polaris30144 (May 30, 2009)

turkeys101 said:


> 270 and a muzzleloader are both excellent guns.but the muzzleloader has far more power than the 270.muzzleloader all day long.



Ya Right!!!!! And a .22 LR will knock an Elk slap of it's feet at a thousand yards.....


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## killitgrillit (May 30, 2009)

polaris30144 said:


> Ya Right!!!!! And a .22 LR will knock an Elk slap of it's feet at a thousand yards.....



He was being sarcastic, Polaris


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## Gote Rider (May 31, 2009)

markantony57 said:


> I have a question for everyone. I'm looking at getting a new gun soon and have been looking at the 270 rifle for a while. I went to BPS the other day and was talking to the man behind the counter. He mentioned that with the new technologies in muzzleloaders, a .50 cal was just as good as a 270 and in some ways better, even cheaper. Now, I am a novice at muzzleloaders. Never had one, don't mind having one if it not too complicated and gets the job done. What do you guys think?



You can not go wrong with either one. Only you can make that choise. I have had a 270 since 1980 and taken lots of deer and hogs with it. With the 270 if you can see it you can hit it. I have been hunting with muzzle loaders only for the past 15yrs. I have taken more deer and hogs than I can remember. For me hunting with a center fire rifle is to easy. With the muzzle loader you have one shot and you make it count. For the past two years I have been hunting with my Remington Genesis 50cal. this is the best shooting rifle I have ever pulled a trigger on if I can see a deer or hog at around 175yds the gun will kill it. I am going hog hunting this evening and I will have my Genesis in hand..Good Luck on the gun choose..


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## turkeys101 (Jun 4, 2009)

killitgrillit said:


> He was being sarcastic, Polaris



i was not being sarcastic.i believe that the muzzleloader is better


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## GobbleAndGrunt78 (Jun 6, 2009)

Muzzleloaders get you in the woods with a gun sooner in the season. A rifle is generally more reliable, cleaner, safer, easier, and accurate. I use my ML a good bit, even once rifle season is in. I really enjoy using it and it gets me into overlooked shotgun/ML only areas. Once rifle season is in almost everybody is in the rifle areas and forget the shotgun/ML and even archery areas. I recommend buying a good rifle AND a muzzleloader.


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## lonegunman (Jun 6, 2009)

I'll add my vote to the salesman is an idiot.

He probably had a load of crappy muzzle loaders to pawn off on hapless folks.  

Muzzle loaders are always stoked to get a 3 shot, 3" group at fifty yards. Worst of all it will take 45 minutes to do it.

 A guy with a good 270, can shoot a 5 shot, 3" group at 250 yards in about 4 minutes and repeat it without having to scrub the soot out of the barrel for 10 minutes between shots.


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