# Flint & steel question



## ratman (Jan 15, 2014)

WHEN USING FLINT & STEEL DO YOU PUT THE CHARRED CLOTH ON TOP OR BOTTOM OF FLINT? WHEN STRIKING STEEL ON FLINT .


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## White Horse (Jan 15, 2014)

I make up a little ball of tinder, say about tennis ball size, and put my char cloth into that. Then I hold the steel in my left hand and the flint in my right hand, and attempt to shoot the sparks down into the char cloth. I usually set the tinder and char cloth onto a rock next to the fire while kneeling or sitting next to it.

I have the kindling and all already built up before starting, so that when I get a spark into the char, I can gently blow it into flames, catch the tinder, then put it into the fire lay. Advance preparation is the key to success.

Just my method. Your mileage may vary.


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## ratman (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for the info i picked up the flint and steel at the frontier festival at chehaw . Have not had a chance to try it . I needed a starting point . This one sounds good thanks again.


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## Nugefan (Jan 15, 2014)

I hold my flint in my left hand with the charcloth on top , then strike flint with striker in my right hand in a downward motion , catch spark on charcloth and then transfer to my birdsnest then blow into flame ...


you know " someone " could have given you a quick demo while we were talking  ....


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## ratman (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks nuge i picked it up on the way out wish i had it while we were talking. It was good to see & talk to you again. I missed a lot of folks by not going sat. But wife was sick so stayed at home with her. So i brought my son and grandson sun. Still had a good time. It is a good event to take the family to.


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## RBM (Jan 15, 2014)

I have two videos on it. One with steel on flint so steel sparks fly up to catch char on the flint and one with flint on steel so steel sparks fly down onto char.


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## ratman (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for the video mr rbm that helped a lot. I think i got a righthanded steel instead of lefthanded can not get good sparks yet .lol


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## RBM (Jan 16, 2014)

ratman said:


> Thanks for the video mr rbm that helped a lot. I think i got a righthanded steel instead of lefthanded can not get good sparks yet .lol



Glad it helped. If your flint has a sharp edge it should not be much of a problem shaving steel sparks. Breaking the flint or knapping the flint should restore a sharp edge if the flint edge has been blunted by the steel from repeated strikes. Sometimes pressure flaking works to restore a sharp edge. It does take some practice on a steel striker to get comfortable using it to get consistent sparks. You can see me in the video often turning the chert around to find sharp edges still on it.


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## ilbcnu (Jan 16, 2014)

what is the best steel to use? ive heard that certain steel is better than others. do you use the thick part of a knife to strike or carry a specific piece of steel?


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## RBM (Jan 16, 2014)

ilbcnu said:


> what is the best steel to use? ive heard that certain steel is better than others. do you use the thick part of a knife to strike or carry a specific piece of steel?



Steel with a high carbon element that is hardened steel. I have a dedicated steel striker that I can carry in my pocket. I also have several small flint and steel kits I put together. I have one knife that will spark on the spine. A Mora Classic #2 Laminated. Its not the best at sparking though but it does work. There are specialty or custom knives made of tool steel that will also spark. Old and I do mean OLD steel files that are real tool steel will spark. I have several of those old files. None of the new files on the market today are tool steel files and they do not work. You might get lucky at a flea market and find an old tool steel file. Scrap pieces of steel from vehicle leaf springs often will spark. I had a cheap furniture tool kit that came with a furniture piece once that had a steel box end wrench and it sparks (not as good though). Tool steel is the best I have seen for sparking other than a dedicated steel striker. Tool steel sparks really good. If you have a small sharp piece of flint then carry it and use it to test steel if in doubt.

I get my dedicated steel strikers here and have gotten good service from them.

http://www.survivalschool.com/products/fire_starting/Flint_and_Steel_Strikers.htm

Look for these laminated knives on this site.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html



> Original Classic Mora Knives
> Before the introduction of modern plastics many Mora knife sheaths were made of a fiber called "Unica". The fiber is actually stiched as if it were leather. The belt tab has the traditional button hole attachment. The blades are laminated carbon steel with full length tangs, about .102" thick. The handles are unfinished birch. There are three sizes for nostalgia buffs.
> 
> Mora Original Classic #2/0, with a 3" blade, weight in sheath ~2 ounces with sheath, (Discontinued)
> ...



Best of luck.


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## White Horse (Jan 17, 2014)

I held off saying anything about the type of steel making a big difference, figuring some of the fellows who know more about metallurgy than I do would answer.

The first steel I had, ordered through mail order, wouldn't hardly spark at all. Live and learn. The one I use now, which is an oval shape, like lots of the trade ones were in the early days, sparks like crazy. It was made by a blacksmith who knew what he was doing. I bought it directly from him. 

I have another one, made in a crescent shape, with curls on the end, that will throw sparks pretty well too, but not as well as the oval one. I have kept it as a spare, and mainly just because it looks good.

Your flint needs to be sharp, too, as someone said above.

Practice until you can get a flame in your tinder every time.


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## ratman (Jan 17, 2014)

Finally got spark and on char cloth. I think my char cloth needs to be charred a little more getting sparks on it but it will not catch like the first piece. Do you char a lot of cloth at one time or just a little?


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## Nugefan (Jan 17, 2014)

ratman said:


> Finally got spark and on char cloth. I think my char cloth needs to be charred a little more getting sparks on it but it will not catch like the first piece. Do you char a lot of cloth at one time or just a little?



try to char an old cotton washrag , it has los of surface area to catch the spark ..the slicker the origional material the easier it is for the spark to skip off the cloth ....

When charring the cloth I cut the cloth into 1 inch strips and fold it end over end in about 1 inch squares to go into the char tin ....

make sure tin has completly quit smoking before taking out of the coals , let sit adise to cool and you should have some good char cloth ...and U only need about a 1/16 dimeter hole in the tin for charring purposes ...


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## ratman (Jan 17, 2014)

How about an old t shirt? I have read some use old blue jeans. But the wash cloth sounds good.


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## RBM (Jan 17, 2014)

I tend to use more char like charred punk wood than cloth. But I do use old cotton blue jeans mostly, takes a little longer than cotton cloth like a T shirt. Charred blue jean does hold together better. Cloth needs to be made from natural material like cotton or linen, synthetic material like polyester and such won't work.

I keep one tin set aside for charring but my other tins or tinder boxes I just use for storing the char to keep it fresh. I mostly use a box that seals air tight the best and that box is a Kiwi shoe polish tin. Repeated heating of a tin will destroy it eventually. Like was said above, only take the tin off the fire when it has completely stopped venting smoke. Check to see if the material or cloth is completely charred so if its not then get it back on the fire until its all charred. Also cool the tin like with a damp rag over it immediately after removing it from the fire or air rushing into the hot tin will burn the char to ashes. I want char, not ashes. Once I have a tin full of char I plug the vent hole in the tin top with a sliver of wood to completely seal it.

Folks usually don't even use a tin for charring. The tinderbox is too valuable for storing the char to destroy it so they put some punk wood or plant pith (or even old cloth) under a layer of dry sand with a fire and hot coals on top. When the fire and coals die they uncover the char to put in the tinderbox. Cloth is also too valuable to char until it is no longer usable. In some cases folks simply burn a stick to get char from the edges but this is harder to get char than with sand and fire on top of the material.

Tinderboxes are used to store the char. The char is lit in the tinderbox that in turn lights tinder for the fire, then the box is sealed with the lid keeping air out snuffing out the char to be used again until the used up char is replaced.

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/tinder/rbchar/index.html

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/tinder/abbchar/index.html

Give me a couple of days when I have time and I will try to do a video using a tinderbox (Kiwi shoe polish tin) and the char inside to light tinder. I will try to get a video of it up on my You Tube Channel hopefully by Monday or Tuesday.


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## RBM (Jan 20, 2014)

Here is my video on the tinderbox and I also included a match cord.


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## ratman (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks for all the info this helps a lot. I also picked up a magnesium striker . I want to learn all i can and to teach my grandboys. They are only 4 now but hope to take them camping soon .after it warms up a bit.


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## RBM (Feb 12, 2014)

RBM said:


> Steel with a high carbon element that is hardened steel. I have a dedicated steel striker that I can carry in my pocket. I also have several small flint and steel kits I put together. Old and I do mean OLD steel files that are real tool steel will spark. I have several of those old files. None of the new files on the market today are tool steel files and they do not work. You might get lucky at a flea market and find an old tool steel file.



Speaking of OLD steel files, I recently had a widow who's husband left behind some tools she no longer wants including some OLD steel files. So I got about four or five files from her. She quoted me the price she wanted and I paid her double what she asked. I was not sure if the files were tool steel or not (not indicated on the files). Since they had teeth on the edges I could not put a flint on them to test them until I removed some teeth. One Nicholson was for sure tool steel grade but the teeth were damaged on the forward half of the file. That was the half I sacrificed since it would do me no good trying to sharpen mower blades with that portion. I can still file with and use the lower portion. I snapped off the forward half damaged portion that DOES spark very good with flint and I have removed the teeth on the edges. I think I can get about three striker steels from it and make up three new kits. The other files though slightly rusty are not damaged and still usable so no need for me to break them up into steel strikers yet (I do not know if those will spark too).

BTW, if you have a file like that and need to remove the teeth on the edges only grind a little off at a time with pauses to cool down so the file does not heat up. Changing the crystalline structure or lattice of the steel by heat may cause it to lose its hardness and sparking ability. In short, don't heat up the file while grinding it or you may change the property of the steel that causes its hardness and causes it to spark.


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## RBM (Feb 16, 2014)

Projects.

One of the new F&S kits minus the char (still have to cook some up).





You can see the damaged teeth on the file section that is now a steel striker for the kit.




Reworked String Gasket Piston in the works. A four inch polycarbonate end bore model. The plunger is Oak. I had problems with the original plunger I used for this one. Supposedly a hardwood dowel but the string pressure between it and the inside of the tube caused deformation of the plunger. I am hoping the hard Oak will solve the problem. Anyway it still has 24 hours epoxy curing time before I can test it with a string gasket.


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## ratman (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks rbm for the info i have been using the flint and steel with success. I am trying different kinds of char cloth. Also trying the plunger type starter no luck yet. It has been a fun learning experience.


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## RBM (Feb 17, 2014)

ratman said:


> Thanks rbm for the info i have been using the flint and steel with success. I am trying different kinds of char cloth. Also trying the plunger type starter no luck yet. It has been a fun learning experience.



That's great. Flint and steel is kind of like my primary with the firebow being my second. Other than solar and modern fire starters that is.

I only use the fire pistons around the house or maybe camping where I can control the needs of the piston like its compression and super dry char needs. I use the pistons in self-defense kind of because we do not have readily available flint here (I use imported flint). Flint and steel char does not need to be as fresh or as dry to light but char for the piston does. I would not carry a piston in the wilderness unless that was all I had. It is just not that reliable and I know it will fail me when I need it the most either due to loss of compression or failure to light char. But they are fun to play with around the house or camping. They are either way too easy or they are just plain horrible.


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## RBM (Feb 26, 2014)

RBM said:


> That's great. Flint and steel is kind of like my primary with the firebow being my second. Other than solar and modern fire starters that is.
> 
> I only use the fire pistons around the house or maybe camping where I can control the needs of the piston like its compression and super dry char needs. I use the pistons in self-defense kind of because we do not have readily available flint here (I use imported flint). Flint and steel char does not need to be as fresh or as dry to light but char for the piston does. I would not carry a piston in the wilderness unless that was all I had. It is just not that reliable and I know it will fail me when I need it the most either due to loss of compression or failure to light char. But they are fun to play with around the house or camping. They are either way too easy or they are just plain horrible.



Speaking of fire pistons being horrible, that new reworked piston I just did makes me realize why my F & S kits beat the pistons every time. The char I was using should be dry in a sealed tinderbox but it is old char and has probably gained some traces of air moisture or humidity. Unless I have FRESH char (super dry) the pistons just don't light up but F & S works no matter how old the char is and even if its not as dry. Stick with F & S for serious fire starting and forget about pistons unless you just want to have fun and play around with them.


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