# Shooting hogs with a 5.56?



## turkeyslayer88

I have a Stag 15 5.56 i bought to shoot hogs with, And i wanted to know everyones thoughts on shooting hogs with a 5.56 and maybe best shot placement?


----------



## pnome

Lots of hogs have been killed with 5.56.  Sounds like a fine choice.

As for shot placement, the bridge or the boiler room should do it.


----------



## Darien1

I kilt one wit my Mini 14.  Shot him in his ear


----------



## John2

I heard you have to have that M855 steel core armor penetrating round to kill a hog, the rest just bounces off.


----------



## Gridley

John2 said:


> I heard you have to have that M855 steel core armor penetrating round to kill a hog, the rest just bounces off.



You heard only part of the story. The bouncing can often be eliminated by pulling the trigger harder and holding it there.

You can also make explosive varmint bullets hold together for better penetration by releasing the trigger quicker.

Try it and you will see what I mean, if you don't' already understand.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Best shot is right below the ear. No run off.  No tracking. No worry about blood trail. Dead right there. But shots behind or through the front shoulder will work good. My son killed this one through the shoulder. No pass through or blood trail but only a 70 yard recovery.


----------



## Gridley

Tell us the specifics of the bullet used, please.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

Gridley said:


> Tell us the specifics of the bullet used, please.



Ive bought PMC X-TAC, 62grs. Green Tip-LAP. What do you suggest?


----------



## turkeyslayer88

dm/wolfskin said:


> Best shot is right below the ear. No run off.  No tracking. No worry about blood trail. Dead right there. But shots behind or through the front shoulder will work good. My son killed this one through the shoulder. No pass through or blood trail but only a 70 yard recovery.



Thats a awesome hog!


----------



## dm/wolfskin

I think it was a 55g soft point but don't know what brand. My bullets get mixed up.

Here's one I shot.

If you get too hot of a bullet, it will leave you with not much meat left. I quartered up that pig up and this was what was left the next afternoon.  

Another one, a sow I shot a few years back. 

I've been hunting pigs since 1992. Started off with 3006 with 180g bullets.  Then with a .54 cal black powder from anywhere 360g to 400g maxi ball. Then to 222 cal and .223 encore and Ar15. Now I mainly hunt with just my longbow or recurve from 125 grain broadhead to 200 grain broadhead. There fun to hunt you just need to place your shot in a killing spot. You hit em wrong they're gone. They can be tough to kill and to find. Good luck to you Slayer88.


----------



## Gridley

I too have migrated through various rifles and calibers to the AR 15 in 6.5 Grendel being my favorite now. It whacks them. I have been using Hornady factory ammo, the 123gr SST. I never get my bullets all mixed up, but I understand that's rather common for those who use the 223. Funny how that is. Archers rarely get their arrows mixed up because they understand how different arrow weights and materials will shoot in different places, and perform differently yet they somehow expect their 223 ammo to be immune to the same physics.


----------



## 4x4

With proper shot placement it will do just as good of a job as any other caliber. Shot this guy one night in the head at 100 yds with "armor piercing" ammo. 150 pound boar


----------



## dm/wolfskin

My bullet are same grain but maybe a different brand. Pigs are not a long distance animal. You can get pretty close. I maybe have shot  2 pigs at 100 yards with the .223 in open field. Most pigs I kill now days are under 15 yards with a longbow.  Most killed with a gun under 50 yards. Play the wind and don't move when they're looking.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Here's a few with the 223 Encore and the Ar15.


----------



## Gridley

Good shootin. I've enjoyed the encore too, but mine isn't a 223. Still a sweet shooting firearm.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

This is how I like to shoot them now days. I might have to get the AR 15 out soon cause I have a friend that wants me to come down but said leave the dham bow at home. He wants them dead and gone but we all know it ain't easy to get rid of them.


----------



## Gridley

That's just gotta be a satisfying way to hunt.


----------



## HOBO

*Dispatching Hogs*



> Best shot is right below the ear. No run off. No tracking. No worry about blood trail. Dead right there.



I agree with DM/WOLFSKIN  and his statement 100%....  

If I'm hunting for the table my aim point is about 1" below the ear when using one of my AR's...  I use either Sierra GameKing 55gr BTHP or Sierra GameKing 65gr SPBT bullets...  No blood trail,,, no tracking,,,, just DRT....

If I'm on an "evasive species nuisance control" mission then the kill zone will become larger,,,,, much larger because a prompt recovery is not a major concern....  These animals can be a real PIA and be difficult to control...  They can cause an unbelievable amount of costly damage to a hunting club property or residential yard...  I live only a few hundred yards from the Altamaha River delta plane between Brunswick and Darien...  My neighbor has a permanent hog trap in their side yard...Just in the past couple of months they have had as much as 1/3 of their 1-1/2 acre yard completely enundated in just one night...  I managed to kill a couple of 150+ pounders one morning at first light out of the sounder of 15-20 animals... 

Hogs are not a difficult animal to kill once the trigger is pulled....   They have nowhere near the stamina nor grit of a whitetail deer!!!  They are an extremely smart and adaptable creature that seldom make the same mistake twice...

-------------<" ){{{{><


----------



## turkeyslayer88

dm/wolfskin said:


> This is how I like to shoot them now days. I might have to get the AR 15 out soon cause I have a friend that wants me to come down but said leave the dham bow at home. He wants them dead and gone but we all know it ain't easy to get rid of them.



Nice kills! I've never shot a hog with a bow!


----------



## NCHillbilly

turkeyslayer88 said:


> Ive bought PMC X-TAC, 62grs. Green Tip-LAP. What do you suggest?



Personally, I wouldn't use FMJ bullets to hog hunt with, unless maybe you're doing only head shots. No expansion, just pencil holes through and through. Might not even be legal, for that matter. I'd use a softpoint or something like the hog hammers with the Barnes bullets. Federal Fusion makes a good .223 hunting round that seems to get good reviews.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

One other thing I've have notice on a down pig, if he's squealing and kicking around put another shot into him. I've seen them go down and get back up after a few seconds and never to be seen again.
 Here's two more with my bow from Jan. this year. Just got to be in the woods if you want to kill them. More times than any you don't find them but the days you do, you hope luck is on your side for that day and not in favor of the hawg.


----------



## GSURugger

Gridley said:


> You heard only part of the story. The bouncing can often be eliminated by pulling the trigger harder and holding it there.
> 
> You can also make explosive varmint bullets hold together for better penetration by releasing the trigger quicker.
> 
> Try it and you will see what I mean, if you don't' already understand.



^hahahahaha.  

"Bounce off" ....it's a pig, not a Berzerker
a .224" bullet traveling 2500-3200 FPS is not going to bounce off.  

The M193 and M855 loading are cheap and should be fine for pigs under reasonable distances.  The bullets have a tendency to tumble and create a pretty devastating wound channel.  Only thing I would advise against is bullets such as a Blitzking or any "varmit tipped" bullet for that matter.  Penetration is what your looking for, not explosion on contact.


----------



## Gridley

It's my understanding that most of the military bullets are designed to tumble. It could be a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, I wouldn't use them on anything but rats or squirrels, armadillos and such. Frankly, I have no use at all for a 223, since practically any moderate or high velocity centerfire bigger than .223 is a better choice. I wouldn't want my money tied up in a useless popgun firearm, when for the same money I could have a real deer or hog rifle. I have never fully understood the attraction of the 223 for deer and hog size game. I can speculate as to the attraction, but to me none of the reasons are logical, or the whole truth. 

I can understand if it's for someone who just has no tolerance at all for recoil, , or a poor person who can't afford anything else, or perhaps for those who just don't care, or a real deal expert who has skill, judgment and patients. But then there are probably very few real experts who would choose a 223, although there are far more who claim the status.


----------



## rosewood

GSURugger said:


> ^hahahahaha.
> 
> "Bounce off" ....it's a pig, not a Berzerker
> a .224" bullet traveling 2500-3200 FPS is not going to bounce off.
> 
> The M193 and M855 loading are cheap and should be fine for pigs under reasonable distances.  The bullets have a tendency to tumble and create a pretty devastating wound channel.  Only thing I would advise against is bullets such as a Blitzking or any "varmit tipped" bullet for that matter.  Penetration is what your looking for, not explosion on contact.



Dude, he was being sarcastic.  Didn't you notice the part about holding the trigger longer??


----------



## GSURugger

rosewood said:


> Dude, he was being sarcastic.  Didn't you notice the part about holding the trigger longer??



bro.
I'm laughing because I agree with his sarcasm.  
and then further chastising whomever thought the bullets would "bounce off"


----------



## dm/wolfskin

In reality the so call .223 is really a .224 caliber.


----------



## Gridley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

I never really paid attention to the .001" difference, since the 223 is a non-cartridge to me for anything bigger than an armadillo. 

I'm sure there are plenty of 223 users who say it makes a BIG difference.


----------



## 660griz

GSURugger said:


> ^The M193 and M855 loading are cheap and should be fine for pigs under reasonable distances.  The bullets have a tendency to tumble and create a pretty devastating wound channel.  Only thing I would advise against is bullets such as a Blitzking or any "varmit tipped" bullet for that matter.  Penetration is what your looking for, not explosion on contact.



Legal Hog rounds:
.22-cal. or larger with *expanding bullets*. There is no restriction on magazine capacity for rifles.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Turkeyslayer88, be sure to take pictures of your hawg when you kill one with the 5.56.


----------



## Gridley

Also please report those that get away wounded, and how far those retrieved run.


----------



## GSURugger

660griz said:


> Legal Hog rounds:
> .22-cal. or larger with *expanding bullets*. There is no restriction on magazine capacity for rifles.



The regs are slightly contradictory.  

Feral Hog Firearms
Any deer, bear, turkey or small game firearms.

Small Game & Furbearer Firearms
Rifles and Handguns: Any .22-cal. or smaller rimfire, air rifle, or any muzzleloading firearm. For fox & bobcat, centerfire firearms of .17 caliber and larger may be used. There is no restriction on magazine capacity for rifles.

So I guess it's an issue of whether the man is having a good day or not.


----------



## rosewood

I read in the paper last week there is a proposal to remove all restrictions on hogs even on public land.  Not sure what the status is though.  So you can use any weapon on hog regardless of other season in play.


----------



## Gridley

In my opinion they should have done that a long time ago.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

dm/wolfskin said:


> Turkeyslayer88, be sure to take pictures of your hawg when you kill one with the 5.56.



Yes sir i will!


----------



## 660griz

GSURugger said:


> The regs are slightly contradictory.
> 
> Feral Hog Firearms
> Any deer, bear, turkey or small game firearms.
> 
> Small Game & Furbearer Firearms
> Rifles and Handguns: Any .22-cal. or smaller rimfire, air rifle, or any muzzleloading firearm. For fox & bobcat, centerfire firearms of .17 caliber and larger may be used. There is no restriction on magazine capacity for rifles.
> 
> So I guess it's an issue of whether the man is having a good day or not.



Yea, I didn't put the other stuff. Just focusing on the 'expanding bullet' part.


----------



## GSURugger

660griz said:


> Yea, I didn't put the other stuff. Just focusing on the 'expanding bullet' part.



per the plain language of the regs, expanding bullets are not required though.  Please correct me if otherwise.


----------



## 660griz

GSURugger said:


> per the plain language of the regs, expanding bullets are not required though.  Please correct me if otherwise.



The way I read it, there is an expanding bullet requirement, for all rifle hunting in Georgia. 

However, per the plain language, I cannot state that as a fact. 
I can't state as a fact what the government classifies as an expanding bullet. 
Therefore, I just hunt with what I know is an expanding bullet.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

Im shooting ballistic tip now.


----------



## bfriendly

Gridley said:


> It's my understanding that most of the military bullets are designed to tumble. It could be a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, I wouldn't use them on anything but rats or squirrels, armadillos and such. Frankly, I have no use at all for a 223, since practically any moderate or high velocity centerfire bigger than .223 is a better choice. I wouldn't want my money tied up in a useless popgun firearm, when for the same money I could have a real deer or hog rifle. I have never fully understood the attraction of the 223 for deer and hog size game. I can speculate as to the attraction, but to me none of the reasons are logical, or the whole truth.
> 
> I can understand if it's for someone who just has no tolerance at all for recoil, , or a poor person who can't afford anything else, or perhaps for those who just don't care, or a real deal expert who has skill, judgment and patients. But then there are probably very few real experts who would choose a 223, although there are far more who claim the status.



Well hello God.............Kind of early to be passing judgement on us poor folks still down here on Earth dont ya think

I dont claim to be an expert, but I have been doing a lot of research as I save my money so I can build my first AR..............I am so ashamed of myself

NOT

BTW-Anything .22 lr Short and up is ALL anyone needs to kill a Hog or a Deer.......................but I thought Everyone Knew that


----------



## bfriendly

turkeyslayer88 said:


> I have a Stag 15 5.56 i bought to shoot hogs with, And i wanted to know everyones thoughts on shooting hogs with a 5.56 and maybe best shot placement?



ABSOLUTELY!! I am in the process getting my hands on an AR before next Fox/Bobcat season. The .22 mag is Awesome, but I really want an AR......I am gonna go as light as possible for carrying through the woods.

 Many think you need a TMJ, but I like an expanding bullet since they are going so fast-Hogs are Not tanks! And Thank You Pnome for the photo I just saved
My favorite round is the Remington accutip V(poly tip). There is another thread where the Killer used and retrieved a Hornady Critical defense bullet(I think thats what it was)........I was Very impressed!


----------



## Gridley

bfriendly said:


> BTW-Anything .22 lr Short and up is ALL anyone needs to kill a Hog or a Deer.......................but I thought Everyone Knew that



Why would you assume that everyone knows anything? 

If a 22 short is ALL you need then use it. 

It's all a matter of choices. I choose to do my best to avoid searching for a shot hog in the bushes or having one just get away, or having to give it up for the night and try again in the morning, expecting to find either a bloated hog or an angry one.

But if you don't mind such things and even enjoy the suspense, and bloated hogs, go ahead, make your day, and use the least cartridge you can buy.

BTW, you may enjoy a slingshot for the sport.

Actually, a sling shot in the right hands would be more effective than a 22 short.


----------



## NCHillbilly

I like to use a .700 Nitro Express myself to make sure I kill 'em. I used to use a  .416 Rigby, but it  just wasn't getting it done like it should. I wouldn't even consider a .375 H&H. 

In all seriousness, it's where you put the bullet more than what you use. The .223 is a very viable hog gun if you know its limitations and put the bullet in the right spot. I'm sure tens of thousands of hogs are killed every year with it.

I have dropped hogs in their tracks with a .22LR. I have tracked a hog for over a mile before finding it after shooting it with a .45/70. I have shot a hog with a .300Winmag and never found it. The key in each case was my bullet placement, not the caliber. A .223 in the vitals beats a .460 Weatherby in the guts any day and twice on Sunday.


----------



## Gridley

bfriendly said:


> Well hello God.............Kind of early to be passing judgement on us poor folks still down here on Earth dont ya think



I ain't God, and I'm a bit offended that you use God in a facetious way.

God invented the laws of physics and we came along later and gave it a name and tried to understand it and explain it. Some ignorant people even today ignore God and his creations, such as physics, and choose to use seriously inadequate cartridges, and seriously believe it's ok. Belief and ignorance and denial are powerful things, but they will never trump physics.

Claiming it's a matter of bullet placement is also ignorant in my opinion. It ignores the fact that we are not perfect shots all the time, and conditions are variable. The least cartridge is the most vulnerable to human error and variables. It has no margin for error. I use a better cartridge, taking advantage of physics and giving myself a margin for error.

It's ok if you choose to use a 22 short for hog hunting, but IMO it's not ok to make claims or justifications to convince others that you are basing your choice on anything but ignorance.


----------



## 660griz

Gridley said:


> It's my understanding that most of the military bullets are designed to tumble..



I have heard this rumor for years. 
However, I have never seen or heard of any real evidence of this. 
Ask some Vietnam, Iraqi vets. Small bullet hole in, small bullet hole out is the norm. 

M855 evidence.


> That report is exemplified by one of an Iraqi officer who was thrown from his vehicle and set afire by an explosion:  'Somehow he managed to hold on to his AK—47.  He also got up, still on fire, faced the firing line of Marines and charged forward firing his weapon from the hip.  He didn't hit anyone but two Marines each nailed him with a three round burst from their M—16A2s.  One burst hit him immediately above his heart, the other in his belly button. [He] . . . kept right on charging and firing until his magazine was empty.  When he got up to the Marines two of them tackled him and rolled him in the sand to put out the fire. . . .  He was quickly carried back to the battalion aid station . . .. The surgeons told me he certainly died of burns, but not necessarily from the six 5.56mm wounds . . ..'



Now, this doesn't necessarily mean the 5.56 is a bad man stopper. It does show evidence of the m855 not being a very good man stopper. If it isn't that great on a man, I would choose another bullet design for pig. 
Bullet design is often more important than caliber.


----------



## Gridley

In the right hands, under the right conditions, with the right bullet, with the right twist rate, within its limitations, with the right phase of the moon, and holding your mouth at just the right angle, the 223 may be adequate. It's been my observation of those I know personally who tout the merits of the 223, that they aren't paying attention to details, and don't care, and they mix their bullets up, and know nothing about twist rate/bullet weight match, and they don't care to know the difference in varmint and other expanding bullets, and they certainly don't know and don't care what the physics or math of the ballistics say.  The guys I personally know who use a 223 IMO are just goofy. It's my observation that the AR 223 for hunting draws  "special" kind of person, perhaps one who was a special Olympics champ.


----------



## 660griz

I feel your pain. I really do. I was in your camp on the .223 not too long ago. I still don't hunt with mine but, if I needed to, I know it would do the job. Pick a big ol heavy bullet designed for hunting, place it in the right place, which you should do for any round, and you will have a dead hog. 

Winchester's Razorback XT, firing a 64-grain, one-piece bullet; ASYM Precision’s Solid Defense X round with a 70-grain Barnes copper TSX bullet; and Federal’s Fusion ammunition, firing a 62-grain spitzer boattail bullet.
79-grain Terminal Shock .223 Rem. round made by Dynamic Research Technologies (DRT) 

Will their twist rate stabilize these bullets well enough? 
Guess it depends on if the AR was bought/built for hunting or plinking.


----------



## NCHillbilly

Well, alrighty, then. I think I'll go chunk my AR in the trash now. I like tater tots.


----------



## Gridley

660griz said:


> Will their twist rate stabilize these bullets well enough?
> Guess it depends on if the AR was bought/built for hunting or plinking.



Well, I'm glad to know there is someone who knows what he's talking about re the 223. IMO, you are a rarity. 

Most 223 users don't have a clue what their twist rate is and don't care. One guy I know, a relative, decided to buy some of the factory ammo with the barnes bullets because he heard they were better for hogs, and didn't even bother to sight his rifle in with them. He said they were too expensive to just waste. He said it was already sighted in anyway. He was talking about some 55gr stuff. Anyway, I won't let him hunt the farm, because I think he's lacking the judgment to carry a firearm.


----------



## 660griz

NCHillbilly said:


> Well, alrighty, then. I think I'll go chunk my AR in the trash now. I like tater tots.



Not while there are still varmints and Tannerite.


----------



## Gridley

NCHillbilly said:


> Well, alrighty, then. I think I'll go chunk my AR in the trash now. I like tater tots.



There's nothing wrong with an AR. The problem is the 223 and reliance on big magazines.

The AR uppers come in cartridges much more suited, such as the 6.8 SPC, or the 6.5 Grendel, which are very satisfying cartridges to shoot, and which are minimum for deer and hogs, IMO.


----------



## mattech

dm/wolfskin said:


> In reality the so call .223 is really a .224 caliber.




Yes. You can see on the label of the box of tsx bullets. Its actually a .224 diameter.


----------



## mattech

Gridley said:


> There's nothing wrong with an AR. The problem is the 223 and reliance on big magazines.
> 
> The AR uppers come in cartridges much more suited, such as the 6.8 SPC, or the 6.5 Grendel, which are very satisfying cartridges to shoot, and which are minimum for deer and hogs, IMO.



I really want to argue with you. Lol although I try and understand someone's point of view first, and I think you are trying to say, a .223 isnt a good caliber for someone who doesn't do their homework on ballistics? I guess. If that's the case, I agree. Grabbing a box of 55 grain varmint ballistic tip bullets and shooting them out of a 1:7 twist rate barrel is inadequate. That light of a bullet out of a heavy twist barrel will spin at close to 30k rpms. Its almost to the point of ripping the bullet apart. However, I strongly disagree that shooting an adequate weight bullet designed to expend on big game, not varmint, is completeley adequate.


----------



## NCHillbilly

Gridley said:


> Well, I'm glad to know there is someone who knows what he's talking about re the 223. IMO, you are a rarity.
> 
> Most 223 users don't have a clue what their twist rate is and don't care. One guy I know, a relative, decided to buy some of the factory ammo with the barnes bullets because he heard they were better for hogs, and didn't even bother to sight his rifle in with them. He said they were too expensive to just waste. He said it was already sighted in anyway. He was talking about some 55gr stuff. Anyway, I won't let him hunt the farm, because I think he's lacking the judgment to carry a firearm.


You paint with a mighty broad brush, don't you? I think such as you are describing is the exception, not the rule. Not sighting the rifle in before hunting with it was caused by the caliber of weapon he was shooting? Ignorance isn't limited to any particular caliber. Would his actions have been more sensible if he was shooting a .338 magnum? Or do you really believe that everyone who owns a .223 is mentally deficient?


----------



## rosewood

Let's see my twist rates:
Colt HBAR 5.56 1:7 really likes 75 grain boat tails bullets, wont' shoot 55's worth a poot

S&W MP15 5.56 1:9 seems to like 55s
Armalite ar-10 .308 1:11.25 likes 165 grain BT
Ruger Mini-14 .223 1:10
TC contender .223 14" pistol 1:12 twist likes 45 grain SPs

I typically hunt hogs with one of my deer rifles.  Although, have killed them with the AR-10.  Killed more than I can count with the Marlin .357mag rifle with 185Grain WFNGC handloaded bullets.  Typically aim for the cranium.

Personally I believe as a good steward of God's creations, I want to put them down with as little suffering as possible.  A .223 will work, but there are better calibers out there that have the potential to do a better job.  However, if it is all you have, I am not gonna knock you for it.  Everyone can't afford an extensive collection.


----------



## Gridley

NCHillbilly said:


> Or do you really believe that everyone who owns a .223 is mentally deficient?



I believe the AR15 in 223 draws a "special" crowd. Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't some reasonable people who use it. 

When I see someone saying reasonable things it's encouraging, but, for example, when talking about the merits of the 223 and in the same paragraph and context talk about the 22 short being adequate, it's a big clue that nothing and no opinion from that source has any merit.

In my observations, this kind of thing is more common with users of the 223 than any other cartridge. It's strange.

Also, I have little doubt that I could whack hogs with a 223. I would use the heaviest bullet I could, and probably a Barnes. But, for the same money I can have a real deer and hog rifle. I have absolutely no use for a 223.


----------



## mattech

rosewood said:


> Let's see my twist rates:
> Colt HBAR 5.56 1:7 really likes 75 grain boat tails bullets, wont' shoot 55's worth a poot
> 
> S&W MP15 5.56 1:9 seems to like 55s
> Armalite ar-10 .308 1:11.25 likes 165 grain BT
> Ruger Mini-14 .223 1:10
> TC contender .223 14" pistol 1:12 twist likes 45 grain SPs
> 
> I typically hunt hogs with one of my deer rifles.  Although, have killed them with the AR-10.  Killed more than I can count with the Marlin .357mag rifle with 185Grain WFNGC handloaded bullets.  Typically aim for the cranium.
> 
> Personally I believe as a good steward of God's creations, I want to put them down with as little suffering as possible.  A .223 will work, but there are better calibers out there that have the potential to do a better job.  However, if it is all you have, I am not gonna knock you for it.  Everyone can't afford an extensive collection.




Are you against archery hunting?


----------



## rosewood

Gridley said:


> When I see someone saying reasonable things it's encouraging, but, for example, when talking about the merits of the 223 and in the same paragraph and context talk about the 22 short being adequate, it's a big clue that nothing and no opinion from that source has any merit.



I believe you are right.  Many "armchair commandos" are drawn to the AR-15.  I own them, but they were not my first purchases by no means and not my weapon of choice for hunting.  Really bought more as a "CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored" scenario.

There are air rifles that carry more energy than a 22 short.  I wouldn't hunt medium game with an air rifle either.


----------



## rosewood

mattech said:


> Are you against archery hunting?



Where did you read that in my post?


----------



## Gridley

The most important point herein is to have a lively discussion that's informative and provides good info for those who have misconceptions or misinformation. The forum format allows for the exchange of both good and bad info, and IMO the bad info should be challenged, even if it chafes some people a little. IMO, they shouldn't be spouting stuff that isn't well founded in fact, or fails to meet a reasonableness test. 

For example, give this the reasonable test, someone says it's not about the cartridge, but about bullet placement instead, and goes on about 45-70, 460, 300 mags, etc. 

But we are not comparing the 223 to those much bigger cartridges, instead we are comparing it to itself. Within the spectrum of what's available in 223, there are lots of choices. The best for deer and hogs will obviously be the heavy bullets which penetrate. And even with the best, they are still low energy delivered, and that decreases rapidly with range.

One can presume no human error, and say it's about shot placement. That ignores that there is always human error, so the shot placement is best of intentions only, which doesn't count for much when one is searching for a bloody and angry hog in the bush.


----------



## mattech

rosewood said:


> Where did you read that in my post?



I didn't read it, that's why I asked you.


----------



## rosewood

mattech said:


> I didn't read it, that's why I asked you.



Well, that is a different story.  So far I have shot 2 deer with an arrow and lost both.  Ain't real happy about it either.  Not to mention, most deer run off when shot with an arrow, not sure they ever DRT with an arrow.  Not saying they don't, but never heard of it.  One of them bled all over, looked like a massacre, got up and ran off 4 hours after I shot it and arrow went clean through.  Other one, broke arrow off in him and got pics of it later.  At this point, I prefer firearm hunting over sticks any day.


----------



## Gridley

mattech said:


> I didn't read it, that's why I asked you.



Quote:
Did you read this?
read it again!!! Molon Labe 

Hummm


----------



## mattech

rosewood said:


> Well, that is a different story.  So far I have shot 2 deer with an arrow and lost both.  Ain't real happy about it either.  Not to mention, most deer run off when shot with an arrow, not sure they ever DRT with an arrow.  Not saying they don't, but never heard of it.  One of them bled all over, looked like a massacre, got up and ran off 4 hours after I shot it and arrow went clean through.  Other one, broke arrow off in him and got pics of it later.  At this point, I prefer firearm hunting over sticks any day.




I wasn't trying to start an argument, hopefully you didn't take it that way.   just getting a view of your thought process as for ethical weapons.


----------



## mattech

Gridley said:


> Quote:
> Did you read this?
> read it again!!! Molon Labe
> 
> Hummm



Humm back at ya.


----------



## 660griz

Gridley said:


> The most important point herein is to have a lively discussion that's informative and provides good info for those who have misconceptions or misinformation.



Amen. 
This is a great place to learn. 

It is hard sometimes to keep emotions out of it.
I will say, in the hopes this isn't taken the wrong way, in order to teach, it is just as important how you say something as what you say. Say it wrong, and all is lost.


----------



## Gridley

Yea, I have a tendency to argue, but do try to be careful with my choice of words and the way I put it. Sometimes when I get it that what I'm saying isn't getting through, I will choose words that I know are going to chafe a bit, to make the point.

I try to maintain good will and intentions.

BTW, I've never been into archery, but I've know guys who were, and as I recall all were good at the sport and had developed good hunting skills, some excellent. 

Stuck right, a hog or deer will bleed out real fast, but seldom DRT.

I have given serious thought into getting a crossbow. The reason is that it's quiet. I would have to set the stand a lot closer to the feeder. But again the main problem is that I shoot hogs at night and I do not want to have to follow one into the thickets. Actually, I just won't do it. With a crossbow, I'm limited to being real close, and daylight only, and probably would be more comfortable with a firearm for follow up any way. So, why bother.


----------



## tgc

This subject comes up quite often on other forums too.... usually  the same outcome as we have seen here. 

Good luck to you all,,,, just kill the hogs!


----------



## rosewood

mattech said:


> I wasn't trying to start an argument, hopefully you didn't take it that way.   just getting a view of your thought process as for ethical weapons.



Yeah, wasn't sure what you was doing there, being sarcastic or asking a legitimate question.  Some folks are sarcastic and it sometimes hard to tell them apart.

I have at least questioned my ability to be ethical with a bow.  Might I add, the first 2 I ever shot at, I hit both.  Recovered neither.  I am pretty accurate, at least with the still targets.  

As for rifles, I am probably batting .950.  Only 1 I know I hit that I lost and it was ultimately my fault, I could have taken a followup, but saw him limping and said, he is gonna die.  Yep probably died but after he ran 300 yards into the brambles.  Won't let that happen again.  If he is still walking and I have a chance at a followup shot, I am taking it.

I do believe the biggest issue with critters that run off is a hurried shot or taking one you should have never taken.  If you wait until you have a clean steady shot, your odds go way up.  And Never, ever shoot at something unless you can clearly identify the critter.

A clean broadside shot with a .223 directly in the heart or double lung at 50 yards is going to expire quickly.  You take that shot at 150 yards quartering away, that deer or hog might suffer for days to come.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

bfriendly said:


> ABSOLUTELY!! I am in the process getting my hands on an AR before next Fox/Bobcat season. The .22 mag is Awesome, but I really want an AR......I am gonna go as light as possible for carrying through the woods.
> 
> Many think you need a TMJ, but I like an expanding bullet since they are going so fast-Hogs are Not tanks! And Thank You Pnome for the photo I just saved
> My favorite round is the Remington accutip V(poly tip). There is another thread where the Killer used and retrieved a Hornady Critical defense bullet(I think thats what it was)........I was Very impressed!


I love my ar, it's a fun gun to shoot! I've never shot any animal with it yet tho, that's the reason I asked about hogs because that's mainly what I'm gonna shoot with it.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

tgc said:


> This subject comes up quite often on other forums too.... usually  the same outcome as we have seen here.
> 
> Good luck to you all,,,, just kill the hogs!



Gotta love shooting hogs!


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Ya'll don't make them out to be harder to kill than they are. They're not a M1 Abrams tank. Think shot placement. You can kill with an arrow thats traveling less than 150 feet per second.

Waiting for pictures 88.


----------



## JBranch

dm/wolfskin said:


> Ya'll don't make them out to be harder to kill than they are. They're not a M1 Abrams tank. Think shot placement. You can kill with an arrow thats traveling less than 150 feet per second.



You can do that kind of stuff if you are only 5 yards away!!!!
 By the way, is that a land shark broadhead?


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Yes landshark jimmy. I don't know if you want to be only 5 yards away in an open field with 290lb boar hawg. Besides I was behind Burt and I think I could outrun him.


----------



## bfriendly

Gridley said:


> In the right hands, under the right conditions, with the right bullet, with the right twist rate, within its limitations, with the right phase of the moon, and holding your mouth at just the right angle, the 223 may be adequate. It's been my observation of those I know personally who tout the merits of the 223, that they aren't paying attention to details, and don't care, and they mix their bullets up, and know nothing about twist rate/bullet weight match, and they don't care to know the difference in varmint and other expanding bullets, and they certainly don't know and don't care what the physics or math of the ballistics say.  The guys I personally know who use a 223 IMO are just goofy. It's my observation that the AR 223 for hunting draws  "special" kind of person, perhaps one who was a special Olympics champ.


Been busy gathering parts for my Birthday present next week...............thought I'd stop by and catch up

I needn't read any further than this, before I hit the quote button...........You know you have a right to say whatever you want. Please continue to exercise that right.

However, I do too..............and I will

All I am saying is when you find yourself in the company of the "Goofy" ones you "Know", remember them. They ARE the folks in blue you so arrogantly referred to..................I am thinking you all rode the same bus to school?


----------



## bfriendly

Gridley said:


> Yea, I have a tendency to argue, but do try to be careful with my choice of words and the way I put it. Sometimes when I get it that what I'm saying isn't getting through, I will choose words that I know are going to chafe a bit, to make the point.
> 
> I try to maintain good will and intentions.
> 
> BTW, I've never been into archery, but I've know guys who were, and as I recall all were good at the sport and had developed good hunting skills, some excellent.
> 
> Stuck right, a hog or deer will bleed out real fast, but seldom DRT.
> 
> I have given serious thought into getting a crossbow. The reason is that it's quiet. I would have to set the stand a lot closer to the feeder. But again the main problem is that I shoot hogs at night and I do not want to have to follow one into the thickets. Actually, I just won't do it. With a crossbow, I'm limited to being real close, and daylight only, and probably would be more comfortable with a firearm for follow up any way. So, why bother.



When you call people names, that sounds like you are passing judgement. Rather than just showing some factual evidence to make your case, you try to diminish the opposing side in hopes they will simply cave.

That is whats wrong with our Government/Country these days too. When you start throwing out Special Olympics Adjectives at folks, you include yourself in a Group(Prog/Lib) that would find me on the "other side" of the Campfire..........hopefully

Belittling is similar to Verbal Bullying IMHO..........


----------



## markland

FYI straight out of the GA reg book:
Deer & Bear Firearms
Modern rifle and handguns: Centerfire only .22 or larger with expanding bullets.
Feral Hog Firearms
Any deer, bear, turkey or small game firearms  There is no restriction on magazine capacity for rifles. Additional weapons restrictions apply on WMA's and Federal lands.
Small Game and Furbearer Firearms
Rifles and Handguns:  Any .22-cal or smaller rimfire, air rifle or any muzzle loading firearm.  For Fox and Bocat, centerfire firearms of .17 caliber and larger may be used.  There is no restriction on magazine capcity for rifles.

Seems pretty specific to me if you take the time to read the regs that only expanding bullets are allowed for hunting and you can use just about any weapon for hog hunting.
For me in .223 with a 1-8 twist the 75gr HPBT bullet works exceptionally well on hogs!  I have shot 3-shot 1in groups with this gun and that load at 200yds.
This was 170yds at the base of the ear with exit!


----------



## rosewood

I read it as saying that Deer and Bear have to be expanding.  Small game does not specify.  Not that I agree with it....


----------



## turkeyslayer88

I shot this hog last week along with a few more, i only recovered 3 hogs and this is the only one i got a picture of, ill try to get more pictures of the next ones i kill. This one was shot about 200 yards free handed thru the gut and dropped dead, I also shot a small boar hog about 20 yards and dropped it dead, and i shot a nice boar about 75 yards in the neck and dropped it dead. I also shot a real nice boar last Thursday and hit it but couldnt recover it. The 5.56 done a really good job as you can tell in the picture


----------



## dm/wolfskin

Well done 88. It's all in your marksmanship.


----------



## bfriendly

Just got mine Today!!  Woohoo!!

Just waiting on the rear sight, but shes ready to go

I cannot wait for Deer season again so I can chase Hogs with it!


----------



## turkeyslayer88

dm/wolfskin said:


> Well done 88. It's all in your marksmanship.



Thank you Mr dm/wolfskin!


----------



## Okie Hog

If you think the .223 is inadequate for hog killing then simply don't use  the .223 on hogs.  There is no call to throw insults at  folks for daring to disagree with you.  

IMO:  The .223/5.56mm is a fine hog killer at short to medium ranges.   

Here in Oklahoma the .223 using soft point bullets of 55 grains and heavier is legal for use on elk.   i know a lady who kills a bull elk every year with her Sako  .223 rifle using handloads.  Currently she uses the Barnes 62 grain TSX bullet.   Most of her elk are one shot kills.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

My Stag Arms 5.56 will shoot 223 too... but after all the talk on here maybe i shouldnt use 223.... lol


----------



## turkeyslayer88

I shot these 5 yesterday evening with my 5.56 at around 250 yards, I hit another one with them but i couldnt retrieve it.


----------



## dm/wolfskin




----------



## mattech

Nice


----------



## NCHillbilly

That's a pile of prime pork right there!


----------



## dm/wolfskin

88, when you get bore of shooting them with the AR15, pick up your bow and practice you stalking skills. Most pigs I kill with my longbow are 15 yards or closer. Pigs are made for bow hunting. You'll blow more stalks than kills but what fun. You can double weapon them as I have in the past. Blow a stalk with your bow, or just can't get closer but not out of range for the AR. In my second picture just above his tail you can see the bottom half of my quiver. I was head back to my truck when this boar came by me but out of bow range and he had seen me. He made a big mistake by stopping twice to look back at me at 50 yards away. I dropped my bow and got the Ar 15 off from around my neck and dropped him were he stood. I had my Alice Pack with me so I quarter him up and headed to my truck.


----------



## birddog52

Just kill all of those nasty beasts they are a plague on our woods and native plants& wildlife today


----------



## rosewood

Wolfskin, should it worry us that you look like you are having too much fun?  LOL

I do have to say, as much as we don't "like" hogs.  It does give us something we can hunt year round virtually unrestricted.


----------



## grouper throat

Why wouldn't it work? We use to shoot them in the head with 22 LR when we trapped them. Kill'em all.


----------



## Deer Fanatic

turkeyslayer88 said:


> I shot these 5 yesterday evening with my 5.56 at around 250 yards, I hit another one with them but i couldnt retrieve it.



What scope is that? Nice shooting BTW


----------



## bfriendly

Good Stuff going on here thats FO SHO!!

Way to lay the smack down with the ARs!! All cases rested

OP got their answer too........with NO DOUBTS!


----------



## turkeyslayer88

Deer Fanatic said:


> What scope is that? Nice shooting BTW



Pursuit X1 Prism sight. I love my scope, its only a 3x but it gets the job done. Its $119.99 at Bass Pro


----------



## turkeyslayer88

rosewood said:


> Wolfskin, should it worry us that you look like you are having too much fun?  LOL
> 
> I do have to say, as much as we don't "like" hogs.  It does give us something we can hunt year round virtually unrestricted.



I was thinking the same thing LOL.


----------



## turkeyslayer88

Nice Hog Mr dm/wolfskin. Nice AR too


----------



## turkeyslayer88

dm/wolfskin said:


>



What type of broadhead do you use for hog? I have rage broad heads with a 2 inch cut.


----------



## dm/wolfskin

I use a fix two blade broadhead. 190gr and 160gr Grizzly broadhead and 190gr Simmons Interceptor and the Simmons 165gr Land Shark broadhead out of my 51lb Shrew longbow and 49# Big Jim's Buffalo longbow. I have a few other set ups but that's what  I mainly use.


----------



## Barebowyer

3 shots taken on hogs(.223), all with 55 gr hornady v-max. All centered head shots, all DRT!  No movement at all other than a few kicks, even has pushed some eys
es out of the socket. 40-70 yds on the  three shots mentioned.  Shot placement and ethics go a long, long, way as with any hunting.  Stick with the recurve now!!


----------



## turkeyslayer88

I shot these a few weeks ago. Theres 4 there, ones behind them you can just see its ear. all shot with my 5.56. i shot the big dark one at about 30 yards, the little red one at about 50, the other little red one and big red one at about 140 to 160 yards.


----------



## Chase4556

I have killed plenty of pigs and deer with my 5.56/223. Pigs, put them in the head/neck area to drop them instantly. Vitals they will run, unless you hit them multiple times, usually not a problem with the AR. 

I shoot either the 62gr Fusion, 64gr Federal blue box, or 64gr Powerpoint ammo. I have found that my 65gr Sierra Gameking handloads are just plain nasty on deer and pigs. 

Get good with follow up shots. Even if you drop them on the first shot, there are usually multiple pigs, and being able to get back on target quick is the key to putting pigs down.


----------



## frankwright

Wow, You did good. 
Congratulations!


----------



## bigreddwon

turkeyslayer88 said:


> I have a Stag 15 5.56 i bought to shoot hogs with, And i wanted to know everyones thoughts on shooting hogs with a 5.56 and maybe best shot placement?


We kill hundreds of hogs a year between myself, my general manager and our customers. .  ALL with 75g BTHP IN 223. 


John2 said:


> I heard you have to have that M855 steel core armor penetrating round to kill a hog, the rest just bounces off.



That's a rumor, myth or a lie that started in Texas 20 years ago when ranchers and farmers would make, at best marginal shots on hogs with the only ammo they had available, 55g FMJ. 

Hogs seal up like a run-flat tire with even the best expanding 30 caliber ammo. FMJ is illegal to hunt with and is Is a waste to use even if it's cheap now, it'll be 200$ a round when you factor in fines from DNR if caught. 

If you shop you can find hollow point or soft nose expanding ammo for under 50 cents a round.  The 223 WILL penetrate a 400 lbs hogs shield AND liquefy any organ it hits underneath it.. You won't see a blood trail and the hog could be 150 yards in the thick n nasty when it dies. It will die. Just not in front of you most times. Because we use thermal, we locate a very high percentage of these hogs that, because of heavy hoof traffic and no blood to trail most wouldn't find them. I know full well 223s don't bounce off of big hogs and absolutely destroy small and medium ones. 

When we do find them sometimes we can't even see where we hit them until we open them. Then pretty much we're always blown away by the traumatic tissue damage. I'll post pictures later. 



NCHillbilly said:


> Personally, I wouldn't use FMJ bullets to hog hunt with, unless maybe you're doing only head shots. No expansion, just pencil holes through and through. Might not even be legal, for that matter. I'd use a softpoint or something like the hog hammers with the Barnes bullets. Federal Fusion makes a good .223 hunting round that seems to get good reviews.



 I got almost 1K of the Razorback copper hog rounds to try out. They are just like the Barnes and the GMX in construction and performance. I was very disappointed in their performance in bone n flesh compared to my plain ol 75g BTHP rounds.  I could not justify their cost. It wasn't that they didn't create awesome wound channels, it was that they weren't any MORE awesome than the 75g cheapo.  Fusion do the same. Awesome. 



rosewood said:


> Dude, he was being sarcastic.  Didn't you notice the part about holding the trigger longer??




Aim small miss small..


----------



## NCHillbilly

bigreddwon said:


> We kill hundreds of hogs a year between myself, my general manager and our customers. .  ALL with 75g BTHP IN 223.
> 
> 
> That's a rumor, myth or a lie that started in Texas 20 years ago when ranchers and farmers would make, at best marginal shots on hogs with the only ammo they had available, 55g FMJ.
> 
> Hogs seal up like a run-flat tire with even the best expanding 30 caliber ammo. FMJ is illegal to hunt with and is Is a waste to use even if it's cheap now, it'll be 200$ a round when you factor in fines from DNR if caught.
> 
> If you shop you can find hollow point or soft nose expanding ammo for under 50 cents a round.  The 223 WILL penetrate a 400 lbs hogs shield AND liquefy any organ it hits underneath it.. You won't see a blood trail and the hog could be 150 yards in the thick n nasty when it dies. It will die. Just not in front of you most times. Because we use thermal, we locate a very high percentage of these hogs that, because of heavy hoof traffic and no blood to trail most wouldn't find them. Would do, and know full well 223s don't bounce off o big hogs and absolutely destroy small and medium ones.
> 
> When we do find them sometimes we can't even see where we hit them until we open them. Then pretty much were always blown away by the traumatic tissue damage. I'll post pictures later.
> 
> 
> 
> I got almost 1K of the Razorback copper hog rounds to try out. They are just like the Barnes and the GMX in construction and performance. I was very disappointed in their performance in bone n flesh compared to my plain ol 75g BTHP rounds.  I could not justify their cost. It wasn't that they didn't create awesome wound channels, it was that they weren't any MORE awesome than the 75g cheapo.  Fusion do the same. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aim small miss small..



But.....but.....Gridley said you couldn't kill hogs with a .223. And he's a French model, so it must be true.


----------



## bigreddwon

NCHillbilly said:


> But.....but.....Gridley said you couldn't kill hogs with a .223. And he's a French model, so it must be true.


----------



## bigreddwon

Here's a Texas heart shot in the first one. Shattered the spine for about 9 inches from the tailpipe towards the head. 

The others are from the offside shoulder shot. On hogs 140lbs n up it'll hang in the hide just bast the meat usually  and leave a hole like this once you pull the hide back. Insides pudding.


----------



## RLykens

I've killed hogs with .17 HMR and a bunch with .223 its all about shot placement and high percentage shots. If you don't feel comfortable using it then don't if you do the use it. I don't like a lot of telling others they're wrong. Everyone should hunt the way they want within the law.


----------



## Doboy Dawg

*How dare You*

How dare you shoot a poor defenseless hog with anything less than .50bmg!  Get over yourself dude,  Native Americans were killing them with ash longbows with sinew strings and bamboo arrows long before your perfect .308 exploding tip.

I have killed them with everything from a bow, .22 magnum, and on up.  I have not tried an RPG yet but I believe it would work.  I wonder what the twist rate is on that?


----------



## model88_308

Well, maybe after around the year 1500 Native Americans might have killed some wild hogs with stick, sinew & an arrowhead (previous to that there were no wild hogs in N.A.)


----------



## turkeyslayer88

My 5.56 claimed another hog yesterday evening, This sow came out about 70 yards from me with 6 pigs about 7:15pm yesterday evening. She was in the edge of the road in some brush and the pigs started walking down the road away from me.  I knew she would follow the pigs so I waited on her and sure enough, she walked out broadsided in the road and I shot her right in the neck. Dropped her where she stood! I tried to get a shot on the pigs but as soon as i shot they were gone.


----------



## mattech

This is a .223 I handloaded with Barnes tsx 62 gr. You could fit your hand in the hole.


----------



## Nannyman

Great job 88. You have really answered your own question. What I have not seen is type of hunting discussion. I have 2 ARs. One is 556/223 and the other is 6.8SPC. 
If I was stand hunting or still hunting where 99% of shots were solid rest, standing mostly still shots, the 556 would be a good choice. Head and neck shots. CNS hits drop them every time. 
If I was getting 1 good solid shot then some hurry up before they get away shots then 6.8mm would be my choice. 
There are a number of guys on the 6.8 forum who do hog eradication in Texas and 120g SST Bullets in 6.8mm is their choice. 
Also the choice of the Heli Hunter guys. I think they use Fed Fusion ammo. 
It's is a fine round and 6.8mm is my go to for deer as well as other game. I was able to kill a yote last year at 451meters according to GPS with my 6.8. 
FYI. IT is a bolt and barrel change with your existing AR. It's that simple. 
Good luck and keep killing them. 

JD


----------



## BCAPES

You have given serious thought into using a crossbow but refuse to shoot a .223?  



Gridley said:


> Yea, I have a tendency to argue, but do try to be careful with my choice of words and the way I put it. Sometimes when I get it that what I'm saying isn't getting through, I will choose words that I know are going to chafe a bit, to make the point.
> 
> I try to maintain good will and intentions.
> 
> BTW, I've never been into archery, but I've know guys who were, and as I recall all were good at the sport and had developed good hunting skills, some excellent.
> 
> Stuck right, a hog or deer will bleed out real fast, but seldom DRT.
> 
> *I have given serious thought into getting a crossbow. *The reason is that it's quiet. I would have to set the stand a lot closer to the feeder. But again the main problem is that I shoot hogs at night and I do not want to have to follow one into the thickets. Actually, I just won't do it. With a crossbow, I'm limited to being real close, and daylight only, and probably would be more comfortable with a firearm for follow up any way. So, why bother.


----------



## NCummins

Shot this one with 62gr Federal Fusion .223 from about 30yards. It was on the side of a hill drinking in a wallow facing me. Shot it in the spine right between the shoulders. Heart and lungs were jello.


----------



## frankwright

I have been carrying my AR-15 .223 with handloaded Barnes TSX bullets but the hogs have not cooperated.
The one day I carried my Winchester lever action I had six pigs right at daylight and could not see well enough to get the shot.

I hunted yesterday with the AR and saw no pigs. Checked the trail cameras and they were at both stands the day before at 7:00am. I can't get on the same schedule as the pigs.
I have a green light on the AR and am going to start hunting evenings and past dark when the pigs are more active.


----------



## JohnK

I have an AR 15 and it works as advertised and is quite accurate. That said, I don't think I can take a second or a third AIMED shot down thru the woods any faster than I can with a 7mm or 30 cal. bolt action. I guess if I had open fields or corn piles to shoot in I might consider it more of a hunting weapon. A good blood trail and some hair is what I want to see.


----------



## Nautical Son

bigreddwon said:


> We kill hundreds of hogs a year between myself, my general manager and our customers. .  ALL with 75g BTHP IN 223.
> 
> 
> That's a rumor, myth or a lie that started in Texas 20 years ago when ranchers and farmers would make, at best marginal shots on hogs with the only ammo they had available, 55g FMJ.
> 
> Hogs seal up like a run-flat tire with even the best expanding 30 caliber ammo. *FMJ is illegal to hunt with and is Is a waste to use even if it's cheap now, it'll be 200$ a round when you factor in fines from DNR if caught.* (snipped)




Would you be so kind as to post a link to the regulation that states FMJ is illegal.....

I have killed more hogs with my .22 Mag than I have my 25.06 and 7mm.08 combined...and every one of them was with an FMJ...I have never had one that ran more than 3 steps from impact, all were more than 50 yard shots, and 1 was close to 150 yards, shot placement on all is 1" behind the ear, 1" down, or as close as possible to that location.

Hogs are an invasive species, with NO limit, and a year round season as far as I'm aware of, why on God's green earth would there be a limit on the type of ammo...That just doesn't make logical sense.


----------



## NCHillbilly

Nautical Son said:


> Would you be so kind as to post a link to the regulation that states FMJ is illegal.....
> 
> I have killed more hogs with my .22 Mag than I have my 25.06 and 7mm.08 combined...and every one of them was with an FMJ...I have never had one that ran more than 3 steps from impact, all were more than 50 yard shots, and 1 was close to 150 yards, shot placement on all is 1" behind the ear, 1" down, or as close as possible to that location.
> 
> Hogs are an invasive species, with NO limit, and a year round season as far as I'm aware of, why on God's green earth would there be a limit on the type of ammo...That just doesn't make logical sense.



The GA hunting regulations state that legal firearms for hogs are "any legal deer, bear, turkey, or small game firearm." A legal deer or bear firearm is designated specifically as being a centerfire .22 caliber or larger using expanding bullets. Small game firearms are defined as .22 or smaller rimfire, with no bullet restrictions. So: from the way the regulation is written, fmj bullets are illegal in centerfires, but apparently can be used in a rimfire for hogs. Most states just come out plainly and say that fmj/military ball ammo is illegal for hunting, period. It is a poor choice for hunting ammo. The way you are using it for headshots with a rimfire is probably the only effective way of using fmj to hunt. It will get a little more penetration than an expanding bullet from the .22 mag. I would not chest shoot a hog with one, though.


----------



## bfriendly

NCHillbilly said:


> The GA hunting regulations state that legal firearms for hogs are "any legal deer, bear, turkey, or small game firearm." A legal deer or bear firearm is designated specifically as being a centerfire .22 caliber or larger using expanding bullets. Small game firearms are defined as .22 or smaller rimfire, with no bullet restrictions. So: from the way the regulation is written, fmj bullets are illegal in centerfires, but apparently can be used in a rimfire for hogs. Most states just come out plainly and say that fmj/military ball ammo is illegal for hunting, period. It is a poor choice for hunting ammo. The way you are using it for headshots with a rimfire is probably the only effective way of using fmj to hunt. It will get a little more penetration than an expanding bullet from the .22 mag. I would not chest shoot a hog with one, though.




Another Good Call Hillbilly...........I knew there was verbiage about "Expanding Bullets", but didnt realize that for Small game weapons(like my .22 mag), it did NOT Apply

As much as I am psyched for small game season to start again, I am really psyched for Deer Season(and fox/Bobcat dates)!  But ONLY because I can hunt hogs with my AR


----------



## turkeyslayer88

Nannyman said:


> Great job 88. You have really answered your own question. What I have not seen is type of hunting discussion. I have 2 ARs. One is 556/223 and the other is 6.8SPC.
> If I was stand hunting or still hunting where 99% of shots were solid rest, standing mostly still shots, the 556 would be a good choice. Head and neck shots. CNS hits drop them every time.
> If I was getting 1 good solid shot then some hurry up before they get away shots then 6.8mm would be my choice.
> There are a number of guys on the 6.8 forum who do hog eradication in Texas and 120g SST Bullets in 6.8mm is their choice.
> Also the choice of the Heli Hunter guys. I think they use Fed Fusion ammo.
> It's is a fine round and 6.8mm is my go to for deer as well as other game. I was able to kill a yote last year at 451meters according to GPS with my 6.8.
> FYI. IT is a bolt and barrel change with your existing AR. It's that simple.
> Good luck and keep killing them.
> 
> JD



Thank you. And ill have to look into the 6.8mm


----------



## bigreddwon

170 yard shot, first one dropped him, second one was for good measure. Neither shot is what most would call a 'good' shot', too far back IMO. 

This is a BIG pig. The first shot took em off his feet. 75g BTHP. 223. The 223 IS NOT a BB gun. It is a HIGH power rifle. It WILL kill anything you hit properly with it.. IMO, properly means you either destroyed enough blood vessels to ensure bleed out,  or you destroyed a necessary organ. Doesn't have to be the heart or lungs either. 

The 6.8, nor 300 whisper or blackout are NOT so much different,  or better or more powerful.  At all. In fact I am confident you can't even tell the difference between the wounds if you had to. I can't. I've tried, 6.8 and 308 and 223, all fist sized holes under the hide. More importantly,  the pigs can't tell.

I've had several hundred customers come hunt with me absolutely KNOWING the 233 I provide IS NOT going to be 'enough' for the task at hand.. Until they SEE how it performs.  The vast majority of them are shocked. Then, they start asking about bullets, and muzzle breaks n.... I LOVE knowing that they go home thinking about that 'new' hunting rifle in their safes, the one with all the dust on it.


----------



## bfriendly

Thanks Bigred! Putting an exclamation point on the subject never hurts! Keep busting them!


----------



## rosewood

Nautical Son said:


> Would you be so kind as to post a link to the regulation that states FMJ is illegal.....
> 
> I have killed more hogs with my .22 Mag than I have my 25.06 and 7mm.08 combined...and every one of them was with an FMJ...I have never had one that ran more than 3 steps from impact, all were more than 50 yard shots, and 1 was close to 150 yards, shot placement on all is 1" behind the ear, 1" down, or as close as possible to that location.
> 
> .



Not sure the .22mag is considered a FMJ.  I believe those are plated bullets which expand much like straight lead.  That may be why it isn't restricted.

The regs don't say no FMJ, it says "must be of expanding type".


----------



## bigreddwon

rosewood said:


> Not sure the .22mag is considered a FMJ.  I believe those are plated bullets which expand much like straight lead.  That may be why it isn't restricted.
> 
> The regs don't say no FMJ, it says "must be of expanding type".



You're correct. They are just plated. So they do still expand. 

Come to think of it, I've never seen a jacketed 22 rimfire. Do they make them even?


----------



## earl39

They make FMJ's in the 17HMR and they will put a pig down with a head shot.   Here in Arkansas on private land there is no restrictions on ammo used.   On public land it is any method and ammo legal for deer or bear.   Some public land also is no hog hunting.  Enjoyed The little 223 debate but used correctly it will put any hog in the US down for the count.  Those that say it won't are the same ones that think a magnum is needed to deer hunt most of the time.   Except for howitzers caliber does not make up for precision.


----------



## kedo

I use DRT 79gr Elite Series Terminal Shock. Have 1:7 twist to be able to use the heavier bullet. Shot placement is definitely key. Out squirrel hunting with a buddy a few years ago. We were using 22 mags for the tree rats. My buddy shot a hog right in the ear with the 22mag. Dropped him right were he stood.


----------



## bfriendly

NCummins said:


> Shot this one with 62gr Federal Fusion .223 from about 30yards. It was on the side of a hill drinking in a wallow facing me. Shot it in the spine right between the shoulders. Heart and lungs were jello.



Is that a Baikal beside your AR?

It looks a lot like mine........I LOVE Mine!


----------



## gtgeorge

The past 2 years I went solely with the AR in 5.56 using the Hornady 60gr soft points. I shot several deer and hogs with no losses compared to the previous year where I was trying to use the Barnes 70gr TSX where I lost deer and hogs.

The Hornady bullet was loaded to 2900fps as I used was the most accurate rather than most power. I was able to drop everything out to 140 yards but all the 160-180# hogs that were shot behind the shoulder indeed ran 60-100 yards with NO blood. 

The wound cavity looked just like the ones I shot with a 7mm mag 162gr except they did not exit. You have to make the best shot you can and not take sharp angle shots in my opinion. If going for the head shot....then no worries. I enjoyed my 2 year hunt proving it could be used but really can not walk away and recommend it. If I had come across a hog that went more than 200# I would have only took a head shot.


----------



## bfriendly

gtgeorge said:


> The past 2 years I went solely with the AR in 5.56 using the Hornady 60gr soft points. I shot several deer and hogs with no losses compared to the previous year where I was trying to use the Barnes 70gr TSX where I lost deer and hogs.
> 
> The Hornady bullet was loaded to 2900fps as I used was the most accurate rather than most power. I was able to drop everything out to 140 yards but all the 160-180# hogs that were shot behind the shoulder indeed ran 60-100 yards with NO blood.
> 
> The wound cavity looked just like the ones I shot with a 7mm mag 162gr except they did not exit. You have to make the best shot you can and not take sharp angle shots in my opinion. If going for the head shot....then no worries. I enjoyed my 2 year hunt proving it could be used but really can not walk away and recommend it. If I had come across a hog that went more than 200# I would have only took a head shot.



Sounds like a good review on Ammo....I dont use anything Hornady unless I have to(just been my experience with it). There are lots of other options available though. I dont use anything with Swamp Folks(I do like them folks though), Hog smacker or any other Promo labeled ammo. I would say overall there hasn't been anything to Prove ANY other gun as being better than a 556 for hunting rifle. Even the rifle itself has SOOOOO many options from super short barrels to middies to really long ones.............Some even get mounted with Rediculous Thermal Optics(Bucket list item) and others with a simple red dot which allows you to keep Both eyes open and be super quick with accuracy(CQB). Lets say worst case scenario you have a gang of Isis raiding your house and there are a dozen at your door. Do you grap your bolt action 30/06 or your AR with a 30rd magazine? I think every household should have an AR whether or not its for hunting


----------



## NCummins

bfriendly said:


> Is that a Baikal beside your AR?
> 
> It looks a lot like mine........I LOVE Mine!



I haven't been on this forum in awhile, sorry for taking so long, but no that is an 11-87 12 gauge.

Shot this guy with my AR 2 weeks ago. 62Grain Federal Fusions again, shot her right behind the skull and the brain was jelly.


----------



## patton72

If your friend needs more help with the hogs please let us know. Would love to help out any way I can. Haha.


----------



## Smack308

556 will work just fine it's all about shot placement.. There won't be a thread about 308 having enough to power to take a hog.. Why take the chance of getting mamed when one 308 to the ankle will drop pretty much anything lol..  I was charged by a rather large 250 plus hog and he took easily 5-6 rounds of 556 to the body and then ran at me.. I just use a 6.8spc, ar10, or an 18" 308.. No questions needed if it will be enough..


----------



## mguthrie

I've seen a .22 mag drop a #125 sow. Shot placement is critical with any round


----------



## bfriendly

mguthrie said:


> I've seen a .22 mag drop a #125 sow. Shot placement is critical with any round



And a 150 Boar

There is no debate........its enuff!


----------



## bigreddwon

Smack308 said:


> 556 will work just fine it's all about shot placement.. There won't be a thread about 308 having enough to power to take a hog.. Why take the chance of getting mamed when one 308 to the ankle will drop pretty much anything lol..  I was charged by a rather large 250 plus hog and he took easily 5-6 rounds of 556 to the body and then ran at me.. I just use a 6.8spc, ar10, or an 18" 308.. No questions needed if it will be enough..



Except .. It won't. Ive seen hogs shot 6 times, poorly with a 308. The larger round doesn't make bad shots into good shots..


A 223 will make a fist sized hole in a hog. What more is needed?


----------



## fayettebowman

55 grain Hornady vmax works wonders. I killed 2 hogs about 3 weeks ago with it.


----------



## Barebowyer

X2 on the V-Max.  Every ones I have shot with it DRT, head shots!  Some people utilize large calibers, which I am a fan of also, but that doesn't compensate for poor marksmanship!!!


----------



## idsman75

FYI:  The "expanding bullets" issue is a non-issue.  Hogs are not considered "game animals".  There are no firearms or ammunition restrictions for hogs if hunting them on private land.  WMA restrictions still apply.  

"Expanding bullets" falls under "Weapons Restrictions" for deer and bear.  There are no Weapons Restrictions for hogs.  Hence, there is no subcategory of ammunition restrictions for hogs.

FMJ non-expanding bullets are fair game for hogs.


----------



## bigreddwon

idsman75 said:


> FYI:  The "expanding bullets" issue is a non-issue.  Hogs are not considered "game animals".  There are no firearms or ammunition restrictions for hogs if hunting them on private land.  WMA restrictions still apply.
> 
> "Expanding bullets" falls under "Weapons Restrictions" for deer and bear.  There are no Weapons Restrictions for hogs.  Hence, there is no subcategory of ammunition restrictions for hogs.
> 
> FMJ non-expanding bullets are fair game for hogs.



You're right,  but when the thread was started n we were talking about expanding bullets, hogs were considered small gam . That's since changed.


----------



## idsman75

Got it.


----------



## Sgt.USMC

See my avatar? Got her at 40 yrs with cheapo Winchester 55 grain hollow points. One shot in in the shoulder and she dropped right there!


----------



## bfriendly

Sgt.USMC said:


> See my avatar? Got her at 40 yrs with cheapo Winchester 55 grain hollow points. One shot in in the shoulder and she dropped right there!



Blew them vitals UP!


----------

