# Dipping/chewing?



## the ben pearson hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

First off i in no way participate in either one of these. I was just wondering is it acceptable for a christian to dip or chew. Im not ever planning on doing it its just one of those questions that ive pondered on.


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## ambush80 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sin, sin ,sin, sin, sin!   Your body is the temple of God.  Smoking cigarettes too.  And licking hallucinatory frogs.  And drinking a Zima (depending on who you ask).


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## SGADawg (Apr 20, 2011)

Preacher friend of mine that chews was asked once by someone trying to bait him if it was a sin to smoke tobacco.  He replied that it sure was, anything that good was meant to be eaten!



That said, I am a Church Deacon that chewed for 40+ years.  I quit 3 years ago for health purposes (cancer scares me).  If the spirit convicts you that it is wrong, it is wrong for you.  I don't recall any scripture that specifically discusses tobacco use.  There are several that speak against defiling your body since it is the Temple of God.


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## dawg2 (Apr 20, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Sin, sin ,sin, sin, sin!   Your body is the temple of God.  Smoking cigarettes too.  And licking hallucinatory frogs.  And drinking a Zima (depending on who you ask).



Toads, not frogs.  There is a difference.

As to the OP, it al depends on how you define "defiling the temple."  Pierced ears, lips etc.? Tattoos? Makeup?  It depends on who you ask.


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## stringmusic (Apr 21, 2011)

SGADawg said:


> Preacher friend of mine that chews was asked once by someone trying to bait him if it was a sin to smoke tobacco.  He replied that it sure was, anything that good was meant to be eaten!
> 
> 
> 
> That said, I am a Church Deacon that chewed for 40+ years.  I quit 3 years ago for health purposes (cancer scares me). * If the spirit convicts you that it is wrong, it is wrong for you. * I don't recall any scripture that specifically discusses tobacco use.  There are several that speak against defiling your body since it is the Temple of God.



Pretty much all that needs to be said about it! Personal conviction and fundamental doctrines of Christianity are two different things. Although the personal convictions should never contradict the doctrines.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 21, 2011)

SGADawg said:


> If the spirit convicts you that it is wrong, it is wrong for you.



So is it fair to say that the bible and Christianity are fluid and variable?


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## Jeffriesw (Apr 21, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So is it fair to say that the bible and Christianity are fluid and variable?



No, I do not believe it is.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 21, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So is it fair to say that the bible and Christianity are fluid and variable?




Lovely.  Someone else's thread....it is okay for you to hi-jack and troll in.  Your thread...you get testy when others do it to you.  I know I shouldn't expect you to follow the golden rule, but c'mon...at least follow your own.


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## DavidB (Apr 21, 2011)

No, the Bible and Christianity are not fluid and variable. 
Malachi 3:6
I, the Lord do not change.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 

Anything that would distract us from our relationship with God is wrong. Abraham was commanded by God to sacrifice Isaac on an alter to God. This was not done but for one reason, for God to determine that Abraham's heart was with God first and not on the blessings which the Lord had bestowed upon him.

If something distracts us from our relationship with God, you can be sure that it will be a problem in our lives. Whether it's possessions or whatever else. As for the original question, there is nothing directly addressing the use of tobacco as it is a more modern development. Alcohol was addressed  because it existed then. The word doesn't say don't drink, just not to be given to drunkenness. Things such as drugs or alcohol alter a persons mind and behavior. This is a state that leads to all kinds of problems, thus the Lord tells us to avoid this kind of behavior. As for tobacco use lets consider what Jesus said in Matthew 15:8-10.

These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men.
Jesus called the crowd to him and said " Listen and understand. What goes into a mans mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean.

If you as an individual feel convicted about using tobacco, I suggest you consider stopping. Otherwise your conscience will condemn you. Not everyone who smokes, chews or dips is going to suffer health issues. Who knows why. On the other hand, if you feel that the Lord is telling you to quit something, perhaps it is because He can see the future problems that it may cause for you.

As for the line of thinking of "It depends on who you ask". My suggestion is to ask God. He'll give you the correct answer for you. As for asking others, you're apt to ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. If you do, MAYBE one of them will me right, the other 99 can't be right as well!


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 21, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Lovely.  Someone else's thread....it is okay for you to hi-jack and troll in.  Your thread...you get testy when others do it to you.  I know I shouldn't expect you to follow the golden rule, but c'mon...at least follow your own.



Interesting assertion there, Einstein.  Completely wrong too.  The OP inquired about dipping & chewing as a sin.  I did not reply to him with a quip asking if he means, say, dipping a frito into salsa and chewing on it.  That's the type of trolling and potstirring that the immature believers employ on my threads...nonsensical responses to my op.  The response of mine to which you appear to take exception is indeed serious and it is clearly not a response to the op designed to railroad the topic.  If anything it is a bit of a tangent from the original topic...you know, exploration of that.  Expounding on it.   

Clearly Swamp Runner recognizes this, or at least he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder.  I can tell because he addressed what I brought up.  Perhaps he is here to genuinely discuss topics...that's certainly always been the case.  So why are you here?


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 21, 2011)

Swamp Runner said:


> No, I do not believe it is.



Fair enough.  Do you agree though that one guy can accurately say "I don't think smokeless tobacco use is a sin, so it's not a sin" and the next guy can accurately say "I do think smokeless tobacco use is a sin, so it's a sin"?  Because that certainly is the notion that got my attention above.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> Toads, not frogs.  There is a difference.
> 
> As to the OP, it al depends on how you define "defiling the temple."  Pierced ears, lips etc.? Tattoos? Makeup?  It depends on who you ask.



I smoked then gave that up for dipping, which I have found is much harder to stop. I think the sin is not in the substance itself (alcohol, tobacco etc etc etc) but instead in the addiction. The argument that I am defiling my body, the temple, is weak. I could use the excuse of not quiting the addiction due to the fact that I could die in a car accident tomorrow, so then, what was it all for?

Having a substance control your thoughts and habits, which in effect draw your attention away from God and create a dependency on an material force is where the true sin lays, not in the actual substance itself. After all, the true definition of sin is "anything that draws your attention away from God". I think an addiction to anything pretty well fits that definition.


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## farmasis (Apr 21, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I smoked then gave that up for dipping, which I have found is much harder to stop. I think the sin is not in the substance itself (alcohol, tobacco etc etc etc) but instead in the addiction. The argument that I am defiling my body, the temple, is weak. I could use the excuse of not quiting the addiction due to the fact that I could die in a car accident tomorrow, so then, what was it all for?
> 
> Having a substance control your thoughts and habits, which in effect draw your attention away from God and create a dependency on an material force is where the true sin lays, not in the actual substance itself. After all, the true definition of sin is "anything that draws your attention away from God". I think an addiction to anything pretty well fits that definition.


 
Great post!


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 21, 2011)

farmasis said:


> Great post!





X2. That is a good word right there!


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## 1gr8bldr (Apr 21, 2011)

The context of our body being a temple has nothing to do with smoking or chewing. The context is about defiling ourselves with a false Spirit. We are to receive the Spirit of Christ, not a false christ. Paul said "What spirit did you receive". And for those who think gluttony is a sin, read it again. It is talking about the shepherds who feed only themselves, only concerned with themselves, not the sheep entrusted to them. That is why Jesus told Peter "feed my sheep". In other words, don't feed yourself, feed my sheep.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> The context of our body being a temple has nothing to do with smoking or chewing. The context is about defiling ourselves with a false Spirit. We are to receive the Spirit of Christ, not a false christ. Paul said "What spirit did you receive". And for those who think gluttony is a sin, read it again. It is talking about the shepherds who feed only themselves, only concerned with themselves, not the sheep entrusted to them. That is why Jesus told Peter "feed my sheep". In other words, don't feed yourself, feed my sheep.



In which case he was using the Shepard story as a metaphor to tell Peter to make sure that Jesus' sheep, his followers, were spiritually fed.

I do not agree however that the care for our body as a temple is strictly a spiritual matter, I do think that physical gluttony is a vile disrespect for what God has given us and I am as guilty as anyone. However, when considering the example you cited above, in terms of spiritual gluttony, there are a multitude of sinners among us.


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## Jeffriesw (Apr 21, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Fair enough.  Do you agree though that one guy can accurately say "I don't think smokeless tobacco use is a sin, so it's not a sin" and the next guy can accurately say "I do think smokeless tobacco use is a sin, so it's a sin"?  Because that certainly is the notion that got my attention above.



Six, Sorry I could not expand when I posted earlier, during the day I am usually on my I Phone and it is hard for me to read and type on a small screen with fat fingers and wearing bifocals, and unfortunately right now I just got done with a 15 hour shift and I am dragging. 
I will try to get time tomorrow afternoon to give you a thoughtful and scriptural response.
Again, I apologize, but this old, bald, fat man is tuckered out and headed to bed.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 21, 2011)

Swamp Runner said:


> Six, Sorry I could not expand when I posted earlier, during the day I am usually on my I Phone and it is hard for me to read and type on a small screen with fat fingers and wearing bifocals, and unfortunately right now I just got done with a 15 hour shift and I am dragging.
> I will try to get time tomorrow afternoon to give you a thoughtful and scriptural response.
> Again, I apologize, but this old, bald, fat man is tuckered out and headed to bed.



No apology necessary sir.  But if it were, you've certainly made your case.  Have a good night.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 22, 2011)

I hope everyone reads the Daily Bible verse that's posted on this site each day.
David has posted some very thought provoking verses each day.  Today's is quite interesting:  "It is not good to have zeal without knowledge.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, life in Christ is not about figuring out what's a sin to you but not a sin to the other person.

I say, "if you want to smoke or dip, go for it.  But you can't smoke in my house and you can't bring your empty pepsi bottle half full of spit in my house".

People who smoke or dip shouldn't be judged harshly by people who don't.

By the way, I hear caffeine is bad for us again.  Better stop drinking coffee.  It might be a sin.


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## The Foreigner (Apr 23, 2011)

Morality is not relative - it is determined by the God through his Word. However, if a man chooses to impose upon himself a standard which is not found in Scripture (take food offered to idols for example - some did not eat it even though Paul said it was permissible) he may, providing it doe not restrict or forbid his duty as prescribed by God. So there IS such a thing as sinning against God and another thing called sinning against one's conscience - the two are not the same. But God's law always trumps conscience.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 23, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> Morality is not relative - it is determined by the God through his Word. However, if a man chooses to impose upon himself a standard which is not found in Scripture (take food offered to idols for example - some did not eat it even though Paul said it was permissible) he may, providing it doe not restrict or forbid his duty as prescribed by God. So there IS such a thing as sinning against God and another thing called sinning against one's conscience - the two are not the same. But God's law always trumps conscience.



Thumbs up.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 23, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> Morality is not relative - it is determined by the God through his Word. However, if a man chooses to impose upon himself a standard which is not found in Scripture (take food offered to idols for example - some did not eat it even though Paul said it was permissible) he may, providing it doe not restrict or forbid his duty as prescribed by God. So there IS such a thing as sinning against God and another thing called sinning against one's conscience - the two are not the same. But God's law always trumps conscience.



I feel certain that the op refers to what you call sin against God.  So, instead of providing a diatribe on different types of sin, what are your thoughts on use of smokeless tobacco from a biblical perspective?


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## The Foreigner (Apr 24, 2011)

No diatribe just responding to clarify earlier comments about conscience and sin. Don't be so touchy. Easy answer to your question... the Bible is silent on the matter explicitly and implicitly the "body is a temple" argument is not relevant - see the comments above. Thus a man may smoke and dip providing it is in moderation and he is not a slave to it.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 24, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> No diatribe just responding to clarify earlier comments about conscience and sin. Don't be so touchy. Easy answer to your question... the Bible is silent on the matter explicitly and implicitly the "body is a temple" argument is not relevant - see the comments above. Thus a man may smoke and dip providing it is in moderation and he is not a slave to it.



Might want to check yourself.  Take a look at hybrid view and you'll see your post was physically in response to the OP, whether you intended that or not.  Given that you claim to be clarifying earlier comments, my guess is that isn't what you intended.  

At any rate it seems that the consensus is the activity isn't a sin unless you get hooked on it.  That's weird.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 27, 2011)

Didn't the Lord say something like this, " It isn't that that enters the mouth that defiles a man".....


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## Gaducker (Apr 27, 2011)

Being a slave to chew or dip is silly, I think if you are of strong mind and will you can quit at anytime.  No matter how long you have been doing it.

Cant say that about smoking cause I have no experince with smokes.  But I would think the same thing about cigs, you should be able to stop at anytime.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 27, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> Being a slave to chew or dip is silly, I think if you are of strong mind and will you can quit at anytime.  No matter how long you have been doing it.



Addiction has a way of changing this.  Nicotine addiction is as real as any other substance.  Quitting _at any time_ is not so easy if you have to avoid punching stupid people and cussing coworkers out.  If those are nonissues for you, it's much easier.  

My expertise here is beyond question.


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## Gaducker (Apr 27, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Addiction has a way of changing this.  Nicotine addiction is as real as any other substance.  Quitting _at any time_ is not so easy if you have to avoid punching stupid people and cussing coworkers out.  If those are nonissues for you, it's much easier.
> 
> My expertise here is beyond question.




If those are issues for you you must have anger management problems.

  I chewed and dipped since I was 12 years old, I will be 40 this year.  I quit cold turkey last month no problem.   I bought chew from the same store for most that time.  When it started going up I told the guy at the store when it got up to 5 bucks a bag I was done.  Well it hit the 5 dollar mark and that was it.  Plus I got sick of my 9 yo boy totin a spit bottle around with him.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 27, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> If those are issues for you you must have anger management problems.
> 
> I chewed and dipped since I was 12 years old, I will be 40 this year.  I quit cold turkey last month no problem.   I bought chew from the same store for most that time.  When it started going up I told the guy at the store when it got up to 5 bucks a bag I was done.  Well it hit the 5 dollar mark and that was it.  Plus I got sick of my 9 yo boy totin a spit bottle around with him.



I don't know that anger management enters into it. I am two weeks off the dip tomorrow. It is easier this week, but last week I could have ended Afghanistan and Libya single handedly..


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 27, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I don't know that anger management enters into it. I am two weeks off the dip tomorrow. It is easier this week, but last week I could have ended Afghanistan and Libya single handedly..



Ding ding, correct answer.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 27, 2011)

Gaducker said:


> If those are issues for you you must have anger management problems.



If you say so.


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## Jeffriesw (May 2, 2011)

Six, Sorry for taking so long, been working late here lately trying to win a major project for my company.
In response to our earlier conversation about the Bible and Christianity being fluid. I would prefer to handle them separately if you don’t mind.
As far as as the Bible goes, I believe it is very consistent in it’s message, maybe not always the clearest to everyone, but clear and concise in it’s content and message. I believe it makes itself own case for being clear, truthful and consistent. Where in my opinion a lot of the arguments and differences occur (here and elsewhere) is in our understanding of it.
I would posit that the Bible is inerrant and infallible, only our understanding of it is flawed. You may not agree, but that is the place I have to stand. I have included a few verses and some link’s supporting my point.

Psalm 19 (ESV)
7 The law of the LORD is perfect,â€¨reviving the soul;â€¨the testimony of the LORD is sure,â€¨making wise the simple;â€¨8 the precepts of the LORD are right,â€¨rejoicing the heart;â€¨the commandment of the LORD is pure,â€¨enlightening the eyes;â€¨9 the fear of the LORD is clean,â€¨enduring forever;â€¨the rules of the LORD are true,â€¨and righteous altogether.â€¨10 More to be desired are they than gold,â€¨even much fine gold;â€¨sweeter also than honeyâ€¨and drippings of the honeycomb.â€¨11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;â€¨in keeping them there is great reward.
12 Who can discern his errors?â€¨Declare me innocent from hidden faults.â€¨13 Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins;â€¨let them not have dominion over me!â€¨Then I shall be blameless,â€¨and innocent of great transgression.



Mark 13 (ESV)

30Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.       31Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Here is a good link with several informative resources dealing with the perspiscuity (Clarity)of the Bible.

http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Bibliology/Perspicuity/Clarity-of-Scripture/ 

And on the inerrancy of the Bible
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Bibliology/Inerrancy/ 


Now as far as christianity being fluid, that is a whole different matter than the Bible. The Bible is a Word of God and not open to debate for me, but our understanding and practice of it (religion) is obviously open for discussion, at least on my end.
My first impression on it was the same as the Bible, no way, not fluid at all. But in reflection, I think my position has to be rethought somewhat, and I would be more than Happy to discuss it if you want.
Just keep in mind, that for about another 2 weeks I will be slammed at work


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## mtnwoman (May 9, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So is it fair to say that the bible and Christianity are fluid and variable?



Yep!

Christ died for our iniquities....which could vary. Mine may be men, alcohol, drugs, but someone else's may vary from mine to smoking cigs, beating their wives/children, or they rob and steal or sell drugs......even though the sins vary we can be forgiven for them.  Some people may believe that Jesus has His chosen few, but that is incorrect. He chooses us all, it's whether we chose Him or not and that could vary on how/what we choose to do.


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## mtnwoman (May 9, 2011)

Wait a second, back to dipping and chewing....

When my little chubby granddaughter has her jeans or shorts to loose and her little crack is showing.....I just look at her and say..."just say no to crack".....she can hear me from 100 paces and pulls up her drawers.....lol....she's 8.
I taught her to yodel so if she gets lost in the deep woods she can yodel....Lol

Just don't chew or dip, or limit it.  Use a little wine...says the bible....so use a little dip.


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## LEON MANLEY (May 9, 2011)

the ben pearson hunter said:


> First off i in no way participate in either one of these. I was just wondering is it acceptable for a christian to dip or chew. Im not ever planning on doing it its just one of those questions that ive pondered on.



I've seen a lot more people damage their body with the foods they eat, than from cigs, dip, and alcohol combined.
Obesity may not be a sin but it's bad for the health and not very easy on the eyes.
Anything done in excess is a sin.


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## jmar28 (May 18, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I don't know that anger management enters into it. I am two weeks off the dip tomorrow. It is easier this week, but last week I could have ended Afghanistan and Libya single handedly..



I know this post is about a month old , but I laughed real hard at this....


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## bad0351 (May 19, 2011)

Noooo......Of course not, dipping is just something we enjoy just like fishing or hunting...


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## Six million dollar ham (May 19, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I don't know that anger management enters into it. I am two weeks off the dip tomorrow. It is easier this week, but last week I could have ended Afghanistan and Libya single handedly..



How's that going, by the way?


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## Six million dollar ham (May 31, 2011)

Bravo, religious people.  Bravo:



> A coalition of 25 religious denominations, including Christians and Muslims and Jews, is throwing some heat toward Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig and the players, saying the time has come to ban smokeless tobacco in the upcoming contract negotiations.
> 
> Leaders from the Southern Baptist Convention and the United Methodist Church (the two largest Protestant denominations in the country) and many others are pushing MLB to adopt the ban that has already been imposed on the minors and in college sports and the National Hockey League.


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## ASH556 (Jun 1, 2011)

I believe A. W. Tozer put it best in his book "Knowledge of the Holy" when he said, "A correct knowledge of God solves 10,000 lesser evils."  Paul warned against arguing over minor issues.  The keys are thus:

1) All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God
2) Jesus (God's only Son and part of the eternal Trinity) took the form of a man, and died, without ever sinning, so that he could be the sacrifice for all sin once and for all; and rose to life 3 days later, thus forever conquering death and (the firey place) for those who believe in Him.
3) Those that believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and that his blood covers their sins, will be saved.
4) The rest of your life after that confession should be spent seeking to know God.  When Jesus talks about rebuking those who had done works in His name, He says, "Depart, for I never KNEW you".  That is the key!


As you begin to understand God's character, you become more like him, and you naturally put off the things of this world.


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## Banjo (Jun 2, 2011)

I have enjoyed reading this thread.....I say if I have to choose between licking a frog/toad or having a chew.....I am going with the chew, even as unattractive as that would be for a woman.  My daddy used to tell me if you spit Red Man in the water, it makes the fish bite.

For what it's worth, I agree with The Foreigner and Swamp.


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