# planting for ducks or baiting?



## Hunteradams (Jan 28, 2015)

Do you feel like planting corn ponds is  like baiting.


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## Atlanta Dawg (Jan 28, 2015)

Hunteradams said:


> Do you feel like planting corn ponds is  like baiting.



Why not ask the game warden ?  He/She would likely give you a straight up answer !!!!


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## deast1988 (Jan 28, 2015)

Is a dove field much different?

I'm in agreement for it, just don't do the what Foiles did. If you have 10k mallards in your field shoot your limit and leave.


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Bring the water to the corn, not the corn to the water


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## Hunteradams (Jan 28, 2015)

deast1988 said:


> Is a dove field much different?
> 
> I'm in agreement for it, just don't do the what Foiles did. If you have 10k mallards in your field shoot your limit and leave.



Exactly I agree with the shoot your birds and leave. What is different between planting corn and dumping a bag out and shooting the birds over it. To me the only difference is money. They changed the law about top sowing wheat for dove what makes it more ok to do it now and not last year? Was it politics, less people hunting (dnr trying to get more involved)?


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## Hunteradams (Jan 28, 2015)

Atlanta Dawg said:


> Why not ask the game warden ?  He/She would likely give you a straight up answer !!!!



Not asking for the law, asking opinion on the law.


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Contact your local farm bureau of accepted planting practices


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## tradhunter98 (Jan 28, 2015)

Any body can go sling corn and shoot ducks. You have to work for it to plant corn and shoot ducks. But there for that kida makes it a rich mans game when you have to plant corn.


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

But you can plant millet, sorghum and milo, just how you play it


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## tucker80 (Jan 28, 2015)

When planting corn, you're creating habitat and contributing to conservation efforts that runs beyond season, giving back while having benefits of good hunting. When throwing it out of the sack, you're baiting for no other reason than to selfishly shoot more birds without contributing back.


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## Big7 (Jan 28, 2015)

Thought if it grows, it's OK.
Just don't move it. Bush hog it and shoot.
Throwing it out on the ground is a different story.

Even that is beyond reason.
If you are allowed "X" number of birds, shoot your limit and go home.

Same SHOULD and in many states "IS" legal.. Deer, bear, hog or whatever..

Rice works better.. If you have the heat and water


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## Hunteradams (Jan 28, 2015)

tucker80 said:


> When planting corn, you're creating habitat and contributing to conservation efforts that runs beyond season, giving back while having benefits of good hunting. When throwing it out of the sack, you're baiting for no other reason than to selfishly shoot more birds without contributing back.




Sure, but mostnplanted ponds start pulling water the day after season. Thus giving no nutrients to north bound birds. If you wanted to create a healthy bird corn is notnthe best option. Natural aquatic vegitation and moist soil is a better option. As far as habitat a corn pond is only a feeding area, there is no loafing area or roost. If i put out lets say 100 pounds ofncorn and shoot 6 of the 50 birds feeding there i am doing the same as a corn pond just less money.


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## aj.hiner (Jan 28, 2015)

Im not sure you can plant corn then bushhog it and hunt over it can you I thought you had to leave it standing or harvest it? Would like to have more legal thoughts on this as well


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Normal agricultural processes, brush hogging does not count, pretty sure.


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## Big7 (Jan 28, 2015)

aj.hiner said:


> Im not sure you can plant corn then bushhog it and hunt over it can you I thought you had to leave it standing or harvest it? Would like to have more legal thoughts on this as well



Yes, you can. If you don't move it.



WOODIE13 said:


> Normal agricultural processes, brush hogging does not count, pretty sure.



No different than a dove field.
Both are covered by migratory bird laws.

If you grow it there and don't move it, like cut it, put
it in a tarp and move it to the other side of the pond
or field, you are good to go..


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## LIB MR ducks (Jan 28, 2015)

Big7 said:


> Yes, you can. If you don't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are incorrect. You should check the laws before you give advice on a public forum. 

Directly from the USFWS website: 
_Federal regulations are more restrictive for waterfowl hunting than for hunting doves and other migratory game birds. You should carefully review the Federal regulations. You may also want to check our information on dove hunting and baiting._

http://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-hunting-and-baiting.html


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## Big7 (Jan 28, 2015)

LIB MR ducks said:


> You are incorrect. You should check the laws before you give advice on a public forum.
> 
> Directly from the USFWS website:
> _Federal regulations are more restrictive for waterfowl hunting than for hunting doves and other migratory game birds. You should carefully review the Federal regulations. You may also want to check our information on dove hunting and baiting._
> ...



I read the link..

A lot of if, ands and buts...

Read it a little closer.

Looks to me like unless on public WRA's or something like that, you can plant and cut, just not move.

I do not claim to be an expert on waterfowl, but I have planted a "few" dove fields. All covered by the migratory
bird law(s).

Advice is in the eyes of the beholder.
I'm pretty sure if the OP had any doubts
after gathering all of our opinions, he would
be smart enough to check with DNR.

Thanks for the read though.
Looks like a Chinese newspaper, subject to interpretation, mostly by what kind of mood the GW is in at the time.

Helps to cover each others back. 

Grow, don't throw. You will be fine. 

Plant some millet or sorghum and just don't cut it.
Erosion control. No problem.


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Big7 said:


> I read the link..
> 
> A lot of if, ands and buts...
> 
> ...



Show me where the normal agricultural practices are and accepted practices of the soil conservatory organization.  You have not a clue, just send us your address to make it easier for US FWS to hem you up


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## WOODIE13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Big7 said:


> Yes, you can. If you don't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are an  if you listen to this...  See you in stripes


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## Scrapy (Jan 29, 2015)

You don't have to bushhog any. I hand shucked a few ears still on the stalk and hand shelled about half way up  those ears.  I probably didn't need to do that. They found it and devoured about two hundred bushels of standing corn.  Some was flooded just right and some the ears were 2 feet above the water. They bent the stalks over or knocked the ears off but they got to it.


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## GSURugger (Jan 29, 2015)

WOODIE13 said:


> You are an if you listen to this...  See you in stripes


...


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## Hunteradams (Jan 29, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> You don't have to bushhog any. I hand shucked a few ears still on the stalk and hand shelled about half way up  those ears.  I probably didn't need to do that. They found it and devoured about two hundred bushels of standing corn.  Some was flooded just right and some the ears were 2 feet above the water. They bent the stalks over or knocked the ears off but they got to it.



pretty sure this is against the law too


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## across the river (Jan 29, 2015)

Big7 said:


> I read the link..
> 
> A lot of if, ands and buts...
> 
> ...



You must have skipped the part in red when you read it.  You can manipulate a planted dove field, but you cannot manipulate a field over which you are hunting waterfowl.  No, there are not "ifs, ands, or buts," and it is not in the eye of the beholder.  If you plant corn, harvest it in September when everyone else is, then you can hunt that field.   If you plant corn, leave it on the stalk and flood it, you can hunt it.   If you plant it and then just bush hog it, the field is baiting.  The regulation couldn't be any clearer.

Manipulation of Agricultural Crops
You cannot legally hunt waterfowl over manipulated agricultural crops except after the field has been subject to a normal harvest and removal of grain (i.e., post-harvest manipulation).

Manipulation includes, but is not limited to, such activities as mowing, shredding, discing, rolling, chopping, trampling, flattening, burning, or herbicide treatments. Grain or seed which is present as a result of a manipulation that took place prior to a normal harvest is bait. For example, no hunting could legally occur on or over a field where a corn crop has been knocked down by a motorized vehicle. Kernels of corn would be exposed and/or scattered.

If, for whatever reason, an agricultural crop or a portion of an agricultural crop has not been harvested (i.e., equipment failure, weather, insect infestation, disease, etc.) and the crop or remaining portion of the crop has been manipulated, then the area is a baited area and cannot be legally hunted for waterfowl. For example, no waterfowl hunting could legally occur on or over a field of sweet corn that has been partially harvested and the remainder mowed.


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## rnelson5 (Jan 29, 2015)

GW's live for threads like this. It makes there jobs easier. You never know.... One may be watching or posting at any time.....


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## Core Lokt (Jan 29, 2015)

I don't really think the end result is no different whether it's planted or poured. Both ways there is corn for the ducks. 


What gets me is the surrounding plantations not only  have planted ponds but they also spread feed in them too and nothing is ever done about it.


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## MudDucker (Jan 29, 2015)

Planting is legal.  Manipulation of any kind after it is grown and flooded is not.


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## Hunteradams (Jan 29, 2015)

Core Lokt said:


> I don't really think the end result is no different whether it's planted or poured. Both ways there is corn for the ducks.
> 
> 
> What gets me is the surrounding plantations not only  have planted ponds but they also spread feed in them too and nothing is ever done about it.



Please elaborate on this. Lets hear plantation names, I promise something will be done if you make enough noise about it. If local leo know about it and do nothing, I am sure the feds would love to step in and make a case not only on the land owners but also the local leo.


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## grouper throat (Jan 29, 2015)

They've been baiting over planting for decades here on plantations.. they have to catch them in the act. 

We use to have the back of one corn field flood once you bust the berm and that was sweet shooting. No, I think neither are any different as both are there to kill birds.


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## Big7 (Jan 29, 2015)

MudDucker said:


> Planting is legal.  Manipulation of any kind after it is grown and flooded is not.



So, sounds like you may know a little something
that our WV friend don't?

What happens in WV stays in WV.. If you know what I mean.

All this "duck dynasty" stuff is drawing attention
where it DON'T need to be.

And, never been in stripes, just so you know.

I didn't go over it with a fine tooth crab lice comb.

MudDucker makes a good point that I DID miss. 

"after it is grown and flooded is not"

Anyhoooo.. Do what I do. Call DNR. (My GW is on speed dial) Get them to come to 
YOUR particular property so they can tell you 
WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN NOT DO. 

That way you are covered. 

Like I said, OP is surely smart enough to check it out.


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## LIB MR ducks (Feb 1, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> GW's live for threads like this. It makes there jobs easier. You never know.... One may be watching or posting at any time.....



Almost as bad as posting Facebook pictures of violations. I'm sure the GW's love it. If you're going to be dumb you better be tough (or rich).


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 1, 2015)

Big7 said:


> So, sounds like you may know a little something
> that our WV friend don't?
> 
> What happens in WV stays in WV.. If you know what I mean.
> ...



Like what?  WV and GA are in the same flyway, they are both in the US and therefore both fall under the USFWS's regulations and guidelines concerning waterfowl hunting/baiting, so you understand


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## The Longhunter (Feb 1, 2015)

Big7 said:


> So, sounds like you may know a little something
> that our WV friend don't?
> 
> What happens in WV stays in WV.. If you know what I mean.
> ...


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## jparham (Feb 1, 2015)

Big7 is wrong. You may not like it and it may not make any sense to you, but the law is clear on the differences between dove and waterfowl baiting.  The thing that ticks me off is that there are people with more money than brains (or maybe just selfish) that will plant large plots of corn,rice, or whatever, pull ducks in and never or rarely hunt. Therefore they're holding all the ducks in an area and no matter what or how much you plant it seems like they always go to those sanctuaries. I know I'm whining but dadgum its frustrating!!!!


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 1, 2015)

It only takes the right Federal or state warden to correct that deficiency brother


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## Scrapy (Feb 1, 2015)

jparham said:


> Big7 is wrong. You may not like it and it may not make any sense to you, but the law is clear on the differences between dove and waterfowl baiting.  The thing that ticks me off is that there are people with more money than brains (or maybe just selfish) that will plant large plots of corn,rice, or whatever, pull ducks in and never or rarely hunt. Therefore they're holding all the ducks in an area and no matter what or how much you plant it seems like they always go to those sanctuaries. I know I'm whining but dadgum its frustrating!!!!



What ticks me off is just the opposite.  I go to the trouble to plant ponds legally and a neighbor pours corn out of a sack.  He knows it's baiting/feeding but since he never shoots it he's legally right to do it. He's a birdwatcher.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 1, 2015)

Flush them up with a kayak (no motor=no rallying) have your buddies out about 4-500 yds from any house in kayaks with some decoys.

Find out from the GW how far from bait you can shoot first, wear them out


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

WOODIE13 said:


> Flush them up with a kayak (no motor=no rallying) have your buddies out about 4-500 yds from any house in kayaks with some decoys.
> 
> Find out from the GW how far from bait you can shoot first, wear them out



That works for one or two hunts. From then on there is a bunch of sky busting.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> That works for one or two hunts. From then on there is a bunch of sky busting.



Better than none...just saying.

They will not be hugging the food from the tree hugger.

This would be an interesting find, how far from a baited area would it be legal to hunt?  Some say 100 yds, other 300, toss in the human factor to gauge it all, never the same.

Just like here, on or near a park where people are gathered for pleasure (sounds like a two part rule, people have to be gathered to equate the crime), the wardens tend to go along with my idea.


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

WOODIE13 said:


> Better than none...just saying.
> 
> They will not be hugging the food from the tree hugger.
> 
> ...



Lol My kid has a deer corn pile 200 yards up the hill from the pond  and/or adjacent/non-contiguous wetlands.

You sure people have to be gathered?  Or where they might could gather? Our church is a place where people gather on Sunday morning and Wednesday night but that is so few I don't know you could call that a gathering..  They built a new elementary school smack dab in the middle of a bunch corn fields/dove fields. Somehow, You cant have or shoot a gun within a half mile of a school. Does that include Saturday morning? Or just while they are gathered up teaching? and/or preaching.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 2, 2015)

Just never know brother, back in the day, there was a cut off point in GA if I am not mistaken for how far the feeder could be from your stand, this was when I was stationed there in 2004-2006, not sure about waterfowl.

In GA, in my experience, get them where and how you can, legally.


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

WOODIE13 said:


> In my experience, get them where and how you can, legally.



I try to be legal and think I am. but my waders are tennis shoes.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> I try to be legal and think I am. but my waders are tennis shoes.



Mine feel like it too sometimes, after September.

I try to be as legal, maybe to the point of being too legal, but I have a leg to stand on when they decide to write me; never know when they might have a bad day with the wife and bring it to work, seen it in the LE world, no excuse, just a great defense.


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## jparham (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> What ticks me off is just the opposite.  I go to the trouble to plant ponds legally and a neighbor pours corn out of a sack.  He knows it's baiting/feeding but since he never shoots it he's legally right to do it. He's a birdwatcher.



I hear ya! That is worse. I've had both happen around here though, and the results are the same! No duck soup for you!!!


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## DLH_Woodstock (Feb 2, 2015)

I will agree that it’s easier and cheaper to throw out corn. But I enjoy the challenge of plotting and planting to see if I can develop a habitat that will feed many more birds and deer than I will ever shoot. I did not shoot a deer in Georgia this year but others in the club did. (I took four in North Carolina for my meat supply.) One evening I saw 14 deer in our food plots but none were shooters. It was a great night IMO just watching them and knowing I did my part. Feed them all year long and they will grow up big, healthy and taste great too!


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## Hunteradams (Feb 2, 2015)

DLH_Woodstock said:


> I will agree that it’s easier and cheaper to throw out corn. But I enjoy the challenge of plotting and planting to see if I can develop a habitat that will feed many more birds and deer than I will ever shoot. I did not shoot a deer in Georgia this year but others in the club did. (I took four in North Carolina for my meat supply.) One evening I saw 14 deer in our food plots but none were shooters. It was a great night IMO just watching them and knowing I did my part. Feed them all year long and they will grow up big, healthy and taste great too!



Yes, it is easier to throw out corn than to plant. But with funds planting is not too hard. Do you think that any of the guys that are successful hunting in a corn pond solely would fair well on public land? It seems like the law is in favor of those with money.


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

Its not the planting that is the chore.  I doubt there is one acre that could make corn to a thousand acres of other duck habitat. Marshes swamps bays reservoirs ponds etc. The work is in the water control structures and dike maintenance. Possibly even pumping.  If you can even get permits.


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## Hunteradams (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> I doubt there is one acre that could make corn to a thousand acres of other duck habitat. Marshes swamps bays reservoirs ponds etc.



What?


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

Hunteradams said:


> What?


comas missing?


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## DLH_Woodstock (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> Its not the planting that is the chore.   The work is in the water control structures and dike maintenance. Possibly even pumping.  If you can even get permits.



Scrapy you are correct! 
I planted a low spot on the lease last year with rice to see how it would do and it did well. I did not pump water into it but I will this next season. I need a pump and 500 yards of hose. I am looking at planting a spot nearer to the pond this year. But it's not that low so I am trying to figure out how to retain the water that I will need to pump into it. 
I don't have much money but I'm not afraid to put in the work. God had given me a few good friend and some of them have tractors and other equipment. That's the only way I can do what we are doing.
Plan the work and work the plan!


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

DLH_Woodstock said:


> Scrapy you are correct!
> I planted a low spot on the lease last year with rice to see how it would do and it did well. I did not pump water into it but I will this next season. I need a pump and 500 yards of hose. I am looking at planting a spot nearer to the pond this year. But it's not that low so I am trying to figure out how to retain the water that I will need to pump into it.
> I don't have much money but I'm not afraid to put in the work. God had given me a few good friend and some of them have tractors and other equipment. That's the only way I can do what we are doing.
> Plan the work and work the plan!



There is a sticky at the top of this forum you might want to review about building any type of alteration.


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## Hunteradams (Feb 2, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> comas missing?



Are you saying that one acre of corn produces more food?


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

Hunteradams said:


> Are you saying that one acre of corn produces more food?


No. Most duck habitat is not suitable for growing corn.  Land that is suitable for growing corn and be duck habitat is a premium.


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## chase870 (Feb 2, 2015)

LIB MR ducks said:


> Almost as bad as posting Facebook pictures of violations. I'm sure the GW's love it. If you're going to be dumb you better be tough (or rich).



If you play the game with the man remember these words "SHOULD HAVE REASONABLEY KNOWN" you will hear them again. For those of you that have never seen a Federal Badge its as big as a Pro Wrestlers belt buckle


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## DLH_Woodstock (Feb 2, 2015)

Meeting with DNR next week Lord willing! Scrapy


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## Scrapy (Feb 2, 2015)

Keep us informed. I'm sure it will be a learning experience.


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