# Does speed really kill?



## Richard (Jan 18, 2018)

In your opinion..whats the best speed/arrow weight combination for whitetails.
For example: an arrow at 500gns/250fps
Or an arrow that's lighter but faster .. what's your set up?


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## deast1988 (Jan 18, 2018)

425/450gr

In 280+ range

I shot 460gr @290fps An still failed on a shoulder. Grim Reaper fatal steel 125gr. Looked like it hit a tree trunk. Never heard a crash or found a speck of blood.

But generally to me 450gr settles vibrations, An tends to give me solid pass throughs on all but a striaght shoulder shot.

My Hoyt shoots 286fps with a FMJ finished weight 440grs

My Elite shot 292fps with a pierce 300 weight 460gr

I'll try the GoldTips through the Hoyt An see how they tune.


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## fountain (Jan 18, 2018)

The only thing speed can hurt is the shooter.  I'll give you some quick examples.

Shooting a light arrow set up trying to get all the speed you can.  This will hinder penetration

Shooting a speed bow that is not forgiving.  This will obviously lead to poor shots amongst other shooting troubles.

Speed isn't a bad thing and really shouldn't be an issue with bows of today.  All give plenty adequate speed with today's technology.  More often than not,they are forgiving as well.  

I shot recurves/longbows for a good spell as well.   Shooting heavy arrows slow was the name of the game and penetration wasn't an issue.

Speed isn't the answer to everything


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## BlackEagle2 (Jan 18, 2018)

deast1988 said:


> I shot 460gr @290fps An still failed on a shoulder. Grim Reaper fatal steel 125gr. Looked like it hit a tree trunk. Never heard a crash or found a speck of blood.





Are you surprised? Lol. Please don’t open up the shoulder shot can of worms. You’re gonna fail on every shoulder shot you take from now until you’re no longer able to hunt I don’t care what setup you are shooting. 


I myself prefer 480 grains are a blazing 250-260 fps


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## Ihunt (Jan 19, 2018)

Mine is 405 grains at 255 FPS from a 53 lb bow.


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## Ihunt (Jan 19, 2018)

IMO 7-8 grains of arrow weight per lb of DW.


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## Deer Fanatic (Jan 19, 2018)

Ihunt said:


> Mine is 405 grains at 255 FPS from a 53 lb bow.



I'm also at 405 out of a 53lb bow. I think I'm at 265fps. Got a pass through on 4 this year including a 300lb Illinois beast. Fixed blade heads and good shot placement is the key in my opinion out of low poundage bows. I will take my super quiet "slow" bow over a speed bow any day


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 19, 2018)

600 grains at 140 fps from a 50# selfbow will go slap through a deer with ease. A 1000+ grain fiberglass fish arrow with a string tied to it going probably 110 fps out of the same bow will go through two feet of water and a 30 lb carp.  A 300 grain arrow going 180 fps out of the same bow will often fail to penetrate a deer rib. Speed and little toothpick arrows are way over rated. I'll take weight any day.


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## alligood729 (Jan 19, 2018)

435gr arrow, 62lbs, 28" draw, 285fps. A heavier arrow is better, a heavy fast arrow is better still.


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## BowanaLee (Jan 19, 2018)

Heavy arrow going fast as you can comfortably is the ticket. I'm slinging 450 gr at about 320 fps on a Ram Cat Diamondback tipped missile.  My Barnett has 3" groups at 60 yds. I know, its kinda like cheating !


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## 2bbshot (Jan 19, 2018)

I like the heaviest arrow I shoot around 280FPS. Currently a 520 gr arrow and 278 FPS. I haven’t found a deer than can hold it yet.


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## brobi9 (Jan 20, 2018)

493 grain arrow running 289fps with 14.3% FOC for me.


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## Richard (Jan 20, 2018)

Thanks for your input


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## Long Cut (Jan 22, 2018)

There's arrow & momentum/KE calculators if you really want to get technical. 

Like everything there's a bell curve with it to reach the best speed & KE your particular setup can produce.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2018)

Long Cut said:


> There's arrow & momentum/KE calculators if you really want to get technical.
> 
> Like everything there's a bell curve with it to reach the best speed & KE your particular setup can produce.



I have shot enough deer over the last half-century in the real world with light/fast bullet firearms and heavy/slow bullet firearms, and the same scenario with arrows, to know that paper energy calculations aren't worth squat. A piece of paper is much easier to penetrate than a rib bone or scapula. Weight wins over speed every time, regardless of what the paper says.


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## Ihunt (Jan 22, 2018)

Deer Fanatic said:


> I'm also at 405 out of a 53lb bow. I think I'm at 265fps. Got a pass through on 4 this year including a 300lb Illinois beast. Fixed blade heads and good shot placement is the key in my opinion out of low poundage bows. I will take my super quiet "slow" bow over a speed bow any day



Yep. The younger generation thinks the arrow has to be going 300 FPS to kill anything. I can draw my bow back as slow as I need to and stop and hold it anywhere in the draw cycle.


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## red neck richie (Jan 22, 2018)

Kinetic energy. You want the most energy at impact as possible for the distance you are shooting. Speed is not the only factor. Gravity, weight of set up and speed at  release all play a role. Its a balancing act really. With modern  bows and broadheads I find the most important factor to be accuracy. IMHO.


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## BlackEagle2 (Jan 22, 2018)

Ihunt said:


> Yep. The younger generation thinks the arrow has to be going 300 FPS to kill anything. I can draw my bow back as slow as I need to and stop and hold it anywhere in the draw cycle.



The older generation cant draw a bow past about 50 lbs so your comment is irrelevant since you cant actually reach 300 fps without a crossbow.


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 22, 2018)

Do not forget momentum in your calculations. It’s what keeps the energy down range. 
For that, weight is king. 

I like a heavy arrow, around 500. But I think anything over 400 is good for white tails.


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## Kris87 (Jan 23, 2018)

Speed kills


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## roadkill (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm shooting a PSE Xforce GX, 350 grain total arrow weight, 300 fps with my setup. Good shot placement = complete pass throughs. All the deer I've shot with this setup, have fallen within sight. I've killed 2 bucks this month, both 10 yard shots and both fell 20 yards from my stand. The last one stopped, and looked back to see what was up. He piled up right there.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 23, 2018)

Kris87 said:


> Speed kills



On the interstate.


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## Long Cut (Jan 23, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I have shot enough deer over the last half-century in the real world with light/fast bullet firearms and heavy/slow bullet firearms, and the same scenario with arrows, to know that paper energy calculations aren't worth squat. A piece of paper is much easier to penetrate than a rib bone or scapula. Weight wins over speed every time, regardless of what the paper says.



Never mentioned paper tuning. I'm talking about online calculators to find your KE numbers. 

Obviously weight wins every time... but I like having a fast enough arrow that my pin gap isn't rediculous either... gotta find that happy medium


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## Ihunt (Jan 24, 2018)

BlackEagle2 said:


> The older generation cant draw a bow past about 50 lbs so your comment is irrelevant since you cant actually reach 300 fps without a crossbow.



Sure I can. All I have to do is shoot a 250 grain arrow. 

Next!


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## jrbowhuntr (Jan 25, 2018)

BowanaLee said:


> Heavy arrow going fast as you can comfortably is the ticket. I'm slinging 450 gr at about 320 fps on a Ram Cat Diamondback tipped missile.  My Barnett has 3" groups at 60 yds. I know, its kinda like cheating !



Not if it keeps you in the woods. Not everyone understands crossbows like us.


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## Permitchaser (Jan 28, 2018)

My old Hoyt bow isn't that fast and my 2512 with a Muzzy 115 goes right through them


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## SWWTV (Jan 29, 2018)

I like as much Kinetic energy as possible it really depends on how comfortable someone if with their equipment, accuracy is very important. I went thru the phase of speed so after many years of trial and error I decide to shoot a fast setup with a heavy arrow. I am shooting 70lbs 28 draw with a 424 gr. total arrow weight with a RamCat Broadhead. Penetration is very important I like a complete pass-thru shots on anything I shoot and in the heat of the moment if its got to pass-thru the  or heavy mass to get to the lungs my equipment needs to be able to perform. My two Largest Bucks to date were both shot thru the shoulder with a fix Blade and a heavy arrow. I will post a picture of a big buck I shot in the shoulder with an expandable which push me back to the Fix blade heads. Heavy Arrow fast Bow and Ramcat or Fix Blade equals Pass-Tru Big Hole in Big Hole out. Please keep in mind that's what works for my setup just an experienced opinion.


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## SWWTV (Jan 29, 2018)

The 12 Pt I killed was with a RamCat 100gr. complete pass-tru the wounded Buck I lost was with a Hybrid Expandable 125 gr. both Bows were 70lb 28 inch draw same arrow weight shooting just over 300fps. I have shot lots of wild Hogs with my current setup I will say I have 100% confidence with my speed and penetration.  Shoot as much speed as you are accurate with.


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## satchmo (Feb 2, 2018)

I've been on both sides. Now since my surgery I dropped my draw to 54 pounds( I had to work up to that). I shoot a 366 grain total weight arrow @ 28 1/2" draw. I am useing a hybrid expandable and have had zero penitration problems. Eight deer this season and every one a complete pass through. My wife shoots the same arrow@ 43 pounds and four deer later with the same head 100% complety pass thoughts except one that hit the inside of the shoulder blade( way better than the outside all day no matter the arrow, weight ,etc..). This is not super lite for my set up or for hers. When I shot 61 pounds, I shot the same arrows, but I was shooting Ramcats at the time which obviously great penitration. I work allot of shows and hear a lot of talk about the great arrow debate. I am 37 years bow hunting and I've seen trends that are here to stay( string loops, releases, etc..) and some that die( overdraws, flippers, clickers for compounds etc..). I think if you can get it to fly though both lungs anything will work. But arrow weight has been the steady debate since day one. When I started I shot 2018 swedged aluminum that likly topped 450 grains with that bodkin head to push it over 500 grains@42 pounds. I slayed them with that set up. But only 20 yards and under. Past that they almost always got out of the way before the arrow got there, or I ended up tracking a deer all night long. Speed is defiantly an advantage, if you can control it.


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## Permitchaser (Feb 4, 2018)

Let's keep this to recurves, long bows and compounds. Cross bows are different mechanical IMHO


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## Tlajoe (Feb 6, 2018)

509 gr at 296fps...


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## Fmjalltheway (May 8, 2018)

Not gunna lie getting hit with a brick thrown by an old lady is gunna hurt more than any major league pitcher throwing a balled up paper towel. Im shooting a easton fmj with a nap thunder head total weight is 530grains +31in draw + 60lb draw weight = pass through


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## TomC (May 8, 2018)

Killed a lot of deer with a 50# Hoyt Pro Hunter and aluminum Easton's back in the 80's and best I can recall they didn't run any further back then than they do today.


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## fountain (May 8, 2018)

Faster is better!  I've never had anything that was too fast..never will, bows included


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## hardhuntinhonkey (Jun 28, 2018)

Find a balance. You can lose kinetic energy by going too heavy and slowing the arrow down. Find a happy medium for your bow.... I shoot 430 gr. At just under 300 fps i shot a deer two years ago in the shoulders. Full penetration..... Not complete pass through but the broadhead (slick trick) was sticking out of the opposite shoulder. I have blood hounds and track a lot of deer shot with a bow. 95% of the deer i track are shot with a mechanical broadhead.... Just fyi


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## Thunder Head (Jun 29, 2018)

Speed of sound 1125 feet per second

Ill take quite, heavy and slow"er" everytime.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jun 29, 2018)

Killed a dump truck load of deer with a old 41' inch Hoyt wheel bow with a 9-10 inch brace height. Easy to draw, easy to shoot and deadly accurate with a 2219 and 145 grain wasp fixed blade. I doubt that bow shot 225 fps. Bows are a lot more efficient nowadays. But a deer that hasn't been scared by a loud bow don't seem to run as far. I've had them jump and turn around and smell the arrow that just killed them. I never heard of kenetic energy until they started looking for excuses why mechanical heads failed. I will take quiet and easy to shoot over speed every day of the weak. It's the one big advantage of traditional archery . Ain't seen a overdraw on a bow in 20 years I bet.


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## kevincox (Jun 30, 2018)

Accuracy with your equipment is what kills


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## matt79brown (Jul 1, 2018)

Shot my 1st deer with a 31'' aluminum xx75 Easton with a 125gr 3 blade wasp. Deer was quartering away but turned before i turned loose my 3 fingers. Broadhead entered the right ham and didn't stop until went through the heart and buried up in the breast bone. The whole arrow was inside the deer! Not sure how fast this bow was shooting but the arrows lobbed in like throwing a football. I been a heavy arrow broadhead guy every since. Oh the good ol' days! It's whatever you like.


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## uturn (Jul 1, 2018)

I have become a speed junky myself...my old set up was indentical to Dennis and I slayed them with it! But, I shortened my draw length up just a bit to 27.5 a few years ago and lightened my arrows to 395GR...I'm pullin 74.5 lbs with my D350 n 75lb Barnesdale Limbs and 452X its just smokin at around 315FPS and flat out to 100yds..I've had pass thru's at 65yds with 2 3/8" NAP Killzone crossbow mechanicals out front and still reachin out for more!! 
Been my favorite so far...and for what it's worth I also keep a 125GR Shuttle T-Lock which puts me back up to 420GR and a 100GR Ramcat in my quiver!! 

Ain't nothin been hard to find...yet! And no I don't shootem in the shoulder either..light, heavy to each his own!! I'm also a believer that accuracy trumps all!!!!

It's more than obvious that there are many and varying opinions on this subject and I love seeing them all and hearing everyone's take on things!

Let em fly and thanks for sharin Fella's!!!


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## dtala (Jul 2, 2018)

570 gr at 170fps out of a 52# longbow will penetrate the shield on a BIG boar and stick in the opposite shield. Speed is way over rated.


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