# pitbull info  the truthis out/bsl should be out the ?



## lee hanson

Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.

Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.

The action in Alabama was brought by the Washington Animal Foundation (WAF) against the city of Huntsville, which had claimed that American Pit BullTerriers were genetically dangerous.

The case centered on four pit bulls held in an animal shelter and adopted by three local women. The dogs were survivors of a group of over 50 pit bulls seized in a raid on a dog-fighting ring in April 2000. Half of the dogs died from injuries or disease, whilst the remainder including four puppies - were held at the City pound and put up for adoption.

Sheila Tack, an emergency room nurse at Crestwood Hospital, adopted two of the puppies that she named Justice and Elizabeth. Whilst they remained impounded, she visited them twice a week.

The other puppies, David and Nellie, were adopted by Kay Nagel, a military officers wife and resident of Redstone Arsenal, and Loyce Fisher, a civil service worker from Cullman.

However, the City Council refused to release the dogs, stating that they were a potential danger to human beings, although none had apparently displayed any aggression. The matter was referred to court for a legal decision on the dogs' fate. During a hearing last year, lawyers representing the city, Michael Fees and Greg Burgess, told Madison County Circuit Judge Joe Battle the animals were vicious and should not be re-homed.

The women, who did not have a lawyer, argued the animals were never trained to fight and conditioning can suppress any vicious tendencies the dogs might have.

Judge Battle agreed and on Nov 13 2001, declared the four young pit bulls were not dangerous because they were never trained to fight. The court allowed the city to destroy 21 adult pit bulls which had been used for fighting.

However, the City appealed Battle's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court and asked the court for an order preventing the women from taking custody of the dogs. At this point, Seattle-based WAF became involved in the case and appointed Huntsville lawyer Mike Seibert to fight their case, based on evidence they gathered to counter the City lawyers claims that all Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous.

The foundation hired veterinarian Dr. Alan Jones of Hazel Green to examine the dogs. But the officers at the shelter do not allow anyone to have physical contact with the pit bulls, even vet Jones.

"They looked fat and happy," he said. "They seemed starved for attention and not aggressive at all"

Glen Bui, spokesman for WAF told a local newspaper that the dogs should be released.

"I believe that the City of Huntsville is wasting thousands of taxpayers' dollars attempting to destroy innocent dogs that were already given by the circuit court to the three women,' he said.

WAF filed an Amicus (third party) submitting genetic proof that Pit Bulls are not dangerous.

The city of Huntsville were backed by the extremist animal rights organization PETA that Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous, with evidence provided by veterinarians, none of whom was an expert in any specific canine or genetic field.

WAF cited case laws under Due Process of the law, and stated that it was unconstitutional to rule a specific breed of dog as dangerous in this way. They also claimed it was genocide to try to eradicate the pit bull breed.

WAF submitted evidence to the Supreme Court that they were able to provide:

1. Identification of expert treatises regarding the genetics of the breed in question

2. Testing and studies regarding genetics verses environment as the catalyst for a specific dog breed's aggression 

3. Social contributions made by the American Pit Bull Terrier (i.e. as Assistance Dogs, Search and Rescue Dogs etc.)

4. The associations brief assisted the court as it had substantial knowledge concerning the issue before the court

5.The briefs filed by the City were insufficient to adequately address the far reaching issues involving genetic breed bias

6. The Foundation read all briefs and believed that innocent pet owners and innocent pets were not represented by either brief.

WAF co-founder Glen Bui told OUR DOGS this week: "The court granted WAF's petition and allowed us seven days to file amicus curiae (disinterested adviser). Myself along with Attorney Mike Seibert worked on the amicus long hours into the night, while WAF members Kay Nagel and Sheila Tack proofread and added input. It was finished with less than one hour before the deadline to file and Sheila raced to the US post office and sent it certified mail.

"Huntsville's entire case rested on affidavits from veterinarians claiming they examined the four pit bull pups and that they would pose a danger to the community because pit bulls are genetically dangerous. They also claimed the women had no legal right to adopt the pups, this was also addressed in the amicus brief."

On Friday, August 30, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in WAFs favour and ordered that the dogs should be released for adoption, accepting the evidence but forward by WAF that no breed of dog is genetically dangerous. "This is fantastic news," said Bui. "The city could appeal against the ruling, but Id like to think theyll give way and release the dogs to their new owners so that they can enjoy a good life. Two of them will be trained as Search and Rescue Dogs; the other two will become pets. The pit bulls have been evaluated and temperament tested before they are released, they are being spayed and neutered. The city did tell the media that the dogs would be released, so lets hope they keep their word."

Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."


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## lee hanson

i made a post a few day ago and some people was rude to me and i let it get to me and i want to apologize to any one i may have a fined am truly sorry and hope you like the info in post thanks for looking and plz respect other opinion


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## bawlingtall

it's way to long. lol


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## lee hanson

ya man i know but i dint want to leave any thing out  so Meany talk a bout  this breed based off the new and what they heard threw the grape vine this it what are law makers and other well respected people the research was done and the verdict is in and the truth is out


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## lee hanson

google don't bully my breed there so Meany good facts on there that would help people under stand this breed


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## bawlingtall

i like this prayer. this explains them so much


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## lee hanson

i like that prayer


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## polkhunt

I just want to throw in my two cents on pit bulls. My cousin had a pit bull that they treated like a baby he was never taught to fight or mistreated, kids could ride him like a horse and he never tried to bite anyone but he would kill any stray dog that came in the yard. If anyone  brought their dog over to my cousins house he would kill that dog as well if he could get to them. I just know from seeing him in action it was just in his blood to kill another dog he would tremble and shake if you tried to hold him back from killing another dog. I  am not saying that it was just because he was a pit bull but that dog turned me off from ever wanting a pit bull.


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## K9SAR

Dog Aggression is common in the breed, and if you own a bully breed you already know this and should be prepared for it.


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## lee hanson

if you don't like them ,don't own them. this breed not for every one but  don't try to stop others from owning them that all am saying. there a lot of people that don't like guns  or the bible should some one be able to take them from me to. where do we draw the line?   i grew up out in the country were your dog play in yard the with the kids. an you dint have to worry but those days are long gone where we live so we keep are dogs put up and so should others i don't think a kid should walk any big breed alone


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## lee hanson

polkhunt said:


> I just want to throw in my two cents on pit bulls. My cousin had a pit bull that they treated like a baby he was never taught to fight or mistreated, kids could ride him like a horse and he never tried to bite anyone but he would kill any stray dog that came in the yard. If anyone  brought their dog over to my cousins house he would kill that dog as well if he could get to them. I just know from seeing him in action it was just in his blood to kill another dog he would tremble and shake if you tried to hold him back from killing another dog. I  am not saying that it was just because he was a pit bull but that dog turned me off from ever wanting a pit bull.


if you would pleas google bully palooza 2010  i do  a lot of dog shows at these shows there hundreds of pitbulls and way more  people and there no problem. was this your cousin first pitbull?


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## lee hanson

K9SAR said:


> Dog Aggression is common in the breed, and if you own a bully breed you already know this and should be prepared for it.



German shepherds are know world wide  as cop and military dogs in these fields  they are used to attack people they are bred for this  job its in there blood my buddy has two of them one is  really nice the other is a totally different dog he has attacked a few people  my buddy also has one my puppies he's a pit bull he lives inside with a toy breed they get alone fine the pit bull is now 3yrs old


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## K9SAR

lee hanson said:


> German shepherds are know world wide  as cop and military dogs in these fields  they are used to attack people they are bred for this  job its in there blood my buddy has two of them one is  really nice the other is a totally different dog he has attacked a few people  my buddy also has one my puppies he's a pit bull he lives inside with a toy breed they get alone fine the pit bull is now 3yrs old



No.  German Shepherds are not "bred to attack people."  It's not "in their blood."  They are _trained_ to apprehend individuals.  

If ANY dog randomly _attacks_ people (not to be confused with being trained to perform a particular task such as apprehension,) it should be euthanized.  Human Aggression (true Human Aggression...not resource guarding, etc.) should not be tolerated.  

I never once said I didn't like pit bulls.  If you note in my avatar, I OWN a pit bull.  HOWEVER, Dog Aggression is just one of the many traits associated with any bully breed dogs.  An owner should be prepared for this, and most responsible bully breed owners understand this.

My Gidget says she is in a pit bull-friendly house.







Dog Aggression is a world of its own as compared to Human Aggression.


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## lee hanson

"He's a little ball of fire" says U.S. Customs officer J.J. Trevino of Popsicle (Receiving a significant Seizure medal in March) 

During an arrest two years ago, Buffalo policeman Ron Clark, Jr. opened an abandoned freezer on a known drug dealer's back porch and found a bulging black garbage bag. "I poked my flashlight at it," he recalls, "and it started moving. My worst fear was that it was a baby."
In fact, it was a puppy, a pit bull who would be known as Popsicle and -- in a lovely ironic twist-- would gain fame for sniffing out the kind of bad guy that nearly killed him. 

One year ago, Popsicle helped the feds seize 3,075 pounds of cocaine from a pineapple-laden truck at the Mexican border-the biggest drug bust ever at the Hidalgo, Texas, port of entry. "It's astounding the obstacles this dog has overcome," says US Customs Service Commissioner Raymond W. Kelley.


The Pitbull Puppy was skin and bones when he arrived at the Animal Hospital.  When Officer Clark found the wounded, blood-caked animal who had apparently been used in pit bull fights, he was undernourished, hypothermic and near death. 

"He was in bad shape, but I was drawn to him," says SPCA adoption counselor Shannon Willie, who name the pup Popsicle. Alas, people who visited the shelter looking to adopt a puppy were put off by his breed's reputation. They would take one look at the pit bull and walk away.


When Popsicle regained his strength, the shelter contacted US Customs canine-enforcement officer Sally Barr. It was a long shot, but maybe he would qualify for the dog training school in Front Royal, VA. 

Of 500 dogs Barr has tested in the last three years, only 4 have made the cut. "You want a dog that plays a terrific tug-of-war," says Barr. Popsicle did, and in February 1998 he graduated at the top of his class and became a celebrated alumnus two months later by detecting the record contraband cache under a tractor-trailer. 

"You have to imagine him," says US Customs canine handler J.J. Trevino ,"on his hind legs, barking, trying to reach up to the bottom of the truck."

Back in Buffalo, where the bad guy eventually got off with probation for animal cruelty, Ron Clark remains awed by Popsicle's comeback. "I still don't know why I opened that refrigerator," says Clark. "But it feel like it was meant to be.


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## lee hanson

K9SAR said:


> No.  German Shepherds are not "bred to attack people."  It's not "in their blood."  They are _trained_ to apprehend individuals.
> 
> If ANY dog randomly _attacks_ people (not to be confused with being trained to perform a particular task such as apprehension,) it should be euthanized.  Human Aggression (true Human Aggression...not resource guarding, etc.) should not be tolerated.
> 
> I never once said I didn't like pit bulls.  If you note in my avatar, I OWN a pit bull.  HOWEVER, Dog Aggression is just one of the many traits associated with any bully breed dogs.  An owner should be prepared for this, and most responsible bully breed owners understand this.
> 
> My Gidget says she is in a pit bull-friendly house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dog Aggression is a world of its own as compared to Human Aggression.



that is so true and i rather have a dog that may  do some thing to another dog rather than to my kinds are friends that why this is the breed for my family thanks for the post  and nice dog      the pointe i was trying to make is they where bred for those jobs but are still people friendly


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## lee hanson

sorry if you miss under stood me


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## Tuffdawg




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## K9SAR

Tuffdawg said:


>



That was my point with this little guy


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## Tuffdawg

K9SAR said:


> That was my point with this little guy



 awwww aint he cute!!!!


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## lee hanson

i don't   under stand k9sar  people out there that thinks these dogs are just wild killing  monsters they are trying to get laws passed to where you cant own them what would do if animal controll came to your home to take your dog


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## Tuffdawg

lee hanson said:


> i don't   under stand k9sar  people out there that thinks these dogs are just wild killing  monsters they are trying to get laws passed to where you cant own them what would do if animal controll came to your home to take your dog



You know just as well as I do that this debate will never be won by either side. Sometimes you just cant change what people believe to be the truth. Dogs are dogs, different breeds exhibit specific behaviors depending on what they are bred to do, However IMHO any and EVERY dog is capable of showing aggression in one form or another due to lack of training by a responsible owner. 

This pitbull debate that never ends...... will be here pretty much forever.


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## lee hanson

i know and it sad the dogs are the one the pay for it but as in any battle there two sides so do we just stop fighting all battle that may never be won  i love my dogs and my rights and i will fight for them till the end


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## billy-84

I really like the prayer, Pit bulls are the best in my opion i own four every one of them play with my kids, and my wifes cats. Never had a problem with them in 10 years.


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## lee hanson

i agree


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## Gabby

If ANY dog randomly _attacks_ people (not to be confused with being trained to perform a particular task such as apprehension,) it should be euthanized.  Human Aggression (true Human Aggression...not resource guarding, etc.) should not be tolerated.  

 Dog Aggression is just one of the many traits associated with any bully breed dogs.  An owner should be prepared for this, and most responsible bully breed owners understand this.


I agree that human aggression in any dog should never be tolerated. Dog Aggression is a whole other problem, especially in the bull dog breeds.  I have seen it run the gambit from dogs that were so dog aggressive that they would rather attack another dog than breed with it   
to dogs that would tolerate other dogs unless they were attacked or their "family" was attacked. 
I met an old gentleman years ago that said there are two rules you have to follow if you own a "bull dog" :
"1. Never trust a bull dog not to fight.
and 2. Never trust a bull dog not to fight.
If you can follow these two rules and be vigilant when you are out with your dog you will never have a problem." (Pete Sparks)

Gabby


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## richard11

Gabby thats the hard part about breeding "bull dogs". Never know when one will kill the other.


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## chiefsquirrel83

lee hanson said:


> German shepherds are know world wide  as cop and military dogs in these fields  they are used to attack people they are bred for this  job its in there blood my buddy has two of them one is  really nice the other is a totally different dog he has attacked a few people  my buddy also has one my puppies he's a pit bull he lives inside with a toy breed they get alone fine the pit bull is now 3yrs old



NO THEY AREN'T! They are trained to attack a threat not "people"! It is not in their blood! C'mon! Just like your old pitbull thread the information is junk! They are TRAINED to search and to control threats!!!


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## chiefsquirrel83

lee hanson said:


> i don't   under stand k9sar  people out there that thinks these dogs are just wild killing  monsters they are trying to get laws passed to where you cant own them what would do if animal controll came to your home to take your dog



wait a second! your previous thread about pitbulls you were for the BSL!?!?!?


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## chiefsquirrel83

only dog to ever attack me was my parents pomerainean and it gave me 11 stiches in my thumb...only harm my bulldog has done is busting my lip after i tripped over him in the living room while he was asleep in the dark


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## chiefsquirrel83

everyone on here that are anti "pitbulls" could not even point one out in a lineup! there are people who call boxers, american bulldogs, mastiffs, and even some pointers a pitbull!!!


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## lee hanson

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> wait a second! your previous thread about pitbulls you were for the BSL!?!?!?



no i have never agreed with bsl i have 6 pit bulls why would i want to ban them


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## lee hanson

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> NO THEY AREN'T! They are trained to attack a threat not "people"! It is not in their blood! C'mon! Just like your old pitbull thread the information is junk! They are TRAINED to search and to control threats!!!



did you even read what i said those dog are bred for their job they don't breed dog that don't exceed in their job and my point is they have to be trained to do what they do even thou they where bred for it just like a pit  has trates that make it a better fighter than other breeds they still have to be trained to fight


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## lee hanson

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> everyone on here that are anti "pitbulls" could not even point one out in a lineup! there are people who call boxers, american bulldogs, mastiffs, and even some pointers a pitbull!!!



that the truth


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## lee hanson

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> wait a second! your previous thread about pitbulls you were for the BSL!?!?!?



infact the previous  was tittled who here own are like pitbulls/say no to bsl


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## lee hanson

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> NO THEY AREN'T! They are trained to attack a threat not "people"! It is not in their blood! C'mon! Just like your old pitbull thread the information is junk! They are TRAINED to search and to control threats!!!


they do what they are trained  they dont come out  knowing  what to do just  like pit bulls  dont come out killers


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## lee hanson

Gabby said:


> If ANY dog randomly _attacks_ people (not to be confused with being trained to perform a particular task such as apprehension,) it should be euthanized.  Human Aggression (true Human Aggression...not resource guarding, etc.) should not be tolerated.
> 
> Dog Aggression is just one of the many traits associated with any bully breed dogs.  An owner should be prepared for this, and most responsible bully breed owners understand this.
> 
> 
> I agree that human aggression in any dog should never be tolerated. Dog Aggression is a whole other problem, especially in the bull dog breeds.  I have seen it run the gambit from dogs that were so dog aggressive that they would rather attack another dog than breed with it
> to dogs that would tolerate other dogs unless they were attacked or their "family" was attacked.
> I met an old gentleman years ago that said there are two rules you have to follow if you own a "bull dog" :
> "1. Never trust a bull dog not to fight.
> and 2. Never trust a bull dog not to fight.
> If you can follow these two rules and be vigilant when you are out with your dog you will never have a problem." (Pete Sparks)
> 
> Gabby



what am trying to say is dogs are just dogs till  some one trains it it dont mater what its trained for good or evil it dont matter if its  apit are a coon dog.  i  yall get it


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## Tuffdawg

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> everyone on here that are anti "pitbulls" could not even point one out in a lineup! there are people who call boxers, american bulldogs, mastiffs, and even some pointers a pitbull!!!






Does anyone here know where that quiz is? The one to where there are 37 different breeds of dogs and only one is a pitbull, and they all look alike? If anyone can find it,  please post it for the "anti's"

I dont even have a pitbull and this gets annoying.


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## K9SAR

Tuffdawg said:


> Does anyone here know where that quiz is? The one to where there are 37 different breeds of dogs and only one is a pitbull, and they all look alike? If anyone can find it,  please post it for the "anti's"



http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

http://www.loveofbreeds.com/Dog/PitBullFinder.html


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## Tuffdawg

K9SAR said:


> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
> 
> http://www.loveofbreeds.com/Dog/PitBullFinder.html



Awesome. thanks


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## lee hanson

K9SAR said:


> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
> 
> http://www.loveofbreeds.com/Dog/PitBullFinder.html



that a real good post thank you


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## lee hanson

bump


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## ngacoons

As far a referring pits and a true coon dog is no comparising. As far as genetics a coon dog is a coon hunter from birth its in their blood if someone has breed true hounds an i mean true hounds through genetic research like many hound breeders do they are born with the traits and 90 to 95 percent accuracy rate to back it up,

And a dog any breed is NEVER TRAINED they are born with characteristics and abilities the handler just exposes their natural traits wether good or bad.IMHO

Where pits catch their rap is when they are referred to as pit. When accusing the dogs i believe the majority of the ppl dont look into to see if Its a true American Pit Terrier when the breeders and fighterS breed to be big and aggressive thats the other genes coming into play

Its important when pet breeders breed they dont realize its more impotant than Hey lets put theese to together and find out what its like 

THE APPLE DONT FALL FAR FROM THE TREE


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## dawg2

lee hanson said:


> what am trying to say is dogs are just dogs till  some one trains it it dont mater what its trained for good or evil it dont matter if its  apit are a coon dog.  i  yall get it



No sir.  Not true.  Dogs are bred for "traits" that become inherent to a breed.  Some have a stronger drive while others are toned down.

While not every "DOG" is the perfect picture of a particular breed, there are inherent traits acquired over years of breeding.   My dog has traits bred into his genetics that make him what he is regardless of my training.  My GShep. wasn't a people killer.  But he was a VERY protective dog.


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## ngacoons

like i said the APPLE DONT FALL FAR FROM THE TREE its in breeding


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## pitbull

These ole pitbull threads get DEEP! Emotions come out(ignorance too!)


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## chiefsquirrel83

Hog dog is a hog dog...it catches hogs.....A bird dog is a bird dog...it flushes and fetches birds...a "pitbull" is a "pitbull"....someone has a inbred dog that looks likes a bulldog and calls it a pit....my dogs are not pits...they are what i like to call a bully breed...somewhere in their line is a bulldog...not a pitbull!!!!...there are BULLY breeds....Boxers, Mastiffs, Staffordshires, American, English, Old English, Durangos, Dogos, etc...yes there is a true "pitbull" breed....but NOT too many people actually own one they are a mix! BUT!?!? I do believe in protecting our ownership of "bully breeds"


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## lee hanson

Sometime during the nineteenth century, dog fanciers in England, Ireland and Scotland began to experiment with crosses between Bulldogs and Terriers, looking for a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the Bulldog. The result was a dog that embodied all of the virtues attributed to great warriors: strength, indomitable courage, and gentleness with loved ones. Immigrants brought these bull and terrier crosses to the United States. The American Pit Bull Terrier’s many talents did not go unnoticed by farmers and ranchers who used their APBTs as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. Today, the American Pit Bull Terrier continues to demonstrate its versatility, competing successfully in Obedience, Tracking, Agility and Weight Pulls, as well as Conformation.


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## lee hanson

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, solidly built, short-coated dog with smooth, well-defined musculature. This breed is both powerful and athletic. The body is just slightly longer than tall, but Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- may be somewhat longer in body than dogs. The length of the front leg (measured from point of elbow to the ground) is approximately equal to one-half of the dog’s height at the withers. The head is of medium length, with a broad, flat skull, and a wide, deep muzzle. Ears are small to medium in size, high set, and may be natural or cropped. The relatively short tail is set low, thick at the base and tapers to a point. The American Pit Bull Terrier comes in all colors and color patterns except merle. This breed combines strength and athleticism with grace and agility and should never appear bulky or muscle-bound or fine-boned and rangy. Above all else, the APBT must have the functional capability to be a catch dog that can hold, wrestle (push and pull) and breathe easily while doing its job. Balance and harmony of all parts are critical components of breed type.

Very Serious Fault: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.


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## lee hanson

The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.


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## lee hanson

Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companions despite the unfair press they receive. A common question regarding the APBT is, "How is this breed different from the American Staffordshire Terrier?". In the eyes of the United Kennel Club, they are the same breed, but many disagree. Some AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terriers are dual-registered as American Pit Bull Terriers with the UKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. The AKC, on the other hand, does not allow a UKC-registered American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier. To be dual-registered, the dog must first be an AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terrier and then it can be registered with the UKC as an APBT -- but not vice versa... Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. Solid training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog


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## lee hanson

Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs.  The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California.  Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California.  They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff.  In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull.  He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone.  He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including:  Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.

Pit Bulls are heroes!  America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby.  He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House.  The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela.  She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California.  A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida.  Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate


----------



## lee hanson

Most people, who are unfamiliar with the American Pit Bull Terrier, falsely believe that they are dangerous dogs.  Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some mean people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive.  Pit Bulls are actually very stable, intelligent, and highly trainable.  They are strong athletic dogs, and they require a guardian who is responsible and will give them plenty of exercise and training.  They are very loving and loyal and make excellent animal companions.


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## SouthernBeagles

There are too many bad owners out there that don't have the know how to train or handle a powerful breed. 
My little brother was attacked and badly scared by a pet pit that had never shown any aggression before. Several neighborhood children ranging from ages 5-8 years old were playing ball and the ball got too close to the dog that was normally kept indoors but was out on a chain to use the bathroom. The ball got too close to the chain and the dog grabbed him and pulled him under. As I mentioned, this dog was kept indoors with small children. Something snapped in that dog that day.
The next day, the dog turned on the owners wife and badly scared her. The dog was put down as it should have been the day before. I don't blame the dog, but nobody knows why he went from a loving pet to an attack dog even turning on his own owner??? Maybe genetics? Maybe a breed too powerful to be owned by an average family? I don't know?
With that said, I have seen several amazing pits. They can be nice dogs....but I will never own or trust one.


----------



## lee hanson

sorry to hear that but that happens time to time with all breeds not just apbt


----------



## lee hanson

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!


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## lee hanson

bump


----------



## Tuffdawg

Ok so two days ago a man was attacked by a dog walking out of the convenient store across the street. All I heard everyone say was PITBULL PITBULL, when animal control picked up the dog, I walked over, It was a boxer. Ignorant people tick me off.

Edited to say: of course I am sure that it didnt help that he was the butcher and had an apron covered in blood stepping outside to smoke a cig. But still, He has stitches.


----------



## lee hanson

Tuffdawg said:


> Ok so two days ago a man was attacked by a dog walking out of the convenient store across the street. All I heard everyone say was PITBULL PITBULL, when animal control picked up the dog, I walked over, It was a boxer. Ignorant people tick me off.
> 
> Edited to say: of course I am sure that it didnt help that he was the butcher and had an apron covered in blood stepping outside to smoke a cig. But still, He has stitches.



lol thanks man


----------



## SouthernBeagles

lee hanson said:


> sorry to hear that but that happens time to time with all breeds not just apbt



Oh I agree......
As I said, I don't blame the dog.  I just don't think the average Joe should own one because of how important it is to train them properly. Most people just don't know how. The size and power of the pit combined with the confident dominant nature makes it more of a liability and danger than a pomeranian with a nasty attitude. NO BREED should be without proper training........NO BREED should ever be allowed to bite or growl at a human....Don't punish the kid when the dog growls because he wants to be left alone! Punish the dog! The dog is the lowest member of the pack (family) and should ALWAYS know his place! (with that being said- the kid shouldn't be allowed to play rough with the dog either as this teaches the dog it is ok to use his mouth on a human).
It may sound like it but I am not picking on Pits. I feel the same way about Chows and other powerful breeds only because of what I have seen with my own eyes. I have worked with Animal Control and worked for a Vet. Have seen some great dogs in all breeds! Have seen a lot of bad stuff too that the average person might not see.  
There is no such thing as a bad dog...........Just bad owners.


----------



## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> Oh I agree......
> As I said, I don't blame the dog.  I just don't think the average Joe should own one because of how important it is to train them properly. Most people just don't know how. The size and power of the pit combined with the confident dominant nature makes it more of a liability and danger than a pomeranian with a nasty attitude. NO BREED should be without proper training........NO BREED should ever be allowed to bite or growl at a human....Don't punish the kid when the dog growls because he wants to be left alone! Punish the dog! The dog is the lowest member of the pack (family) and should ALWAYS know his place! (with that being said- the kid shouldn't be allowed to play rough with the dog either as this teaches the dog it is ok to use his mouth on a human).
> It may sound like it but I am not picking on Pits. I feel the same way about Chows and other powerful breeds only because of what I have seen with my own eyes. I have worked with Animal Control and worked for a Vet. Have seen some great dogs in all breeds! Have seen a lot of bad stuff too that the average person might not see.
> There is no such thing as a bad dog...........Just bad owners.



i agree with you but  a true apbt is not a big dog size should be between 30 -55 lbs any thing bigger is probably  a american bully are some other breed  but good post thanks


----------



## dawg2

SouthernBeagles said:


> Oh I agree......
> As I said, I don't blame the dog.  I just don't think the average Joe should own one because of how important it is to train them properly. Most people just don't know how. The size and power of the pit combined with the confident dominant nature makes it more of a liability and danger than a pomeranian with a nasty attitude. NO BREED should be without proper training........NO BREED should ever be allowed to bite or growl at a human....Don't punish the kid when the dog growls because he wants to be left alone! Punish the dog! The dog is the lowest member of the pack (family) and should ALWAYS know his place! (with that being said- the kid shouldn't be allowed to play rough with the dog either as this teaches the dog it is ok to use his mouth on a human).
> It may sound like it but I am not picking on Pits. I feel the same way about Chows and other powerful breeds only because of what I have seen with my own eyes. I have worked with Animal Control and worked for a Vet. Have seen some great dogs in all breeds! Have seen a lot of bad stuff too that the average person might not see.
> There is no such thing as a bad dog...........Just bad owners.


 There are "Bad, psychotic dogs" just as there are "bad, psychotic people."


----------



## SouthernBeagles

dawg2 said:


> There are "Bad, psychotic dogs" just as there are "bad, psychotic people."



A responsible owner familiar with their breed would see the warning signs early on before it becomes an issue and put the dog down. I can GAURENTEE the dog that attacked my brother had to have shown SOME sign that either wasn't recognised due to ignorance of the breed, or was covered up or ignored. The problem is that the average Joe owners think "if I just keep him away from other people-dogs-farm animals-or what ever, he will be ok because I LOVE my dog and don't want to put him to sleep. So how is this the dogs fault if he is allowed to develope in such a manner that he becomes a liability?


----------



## dawg2

SouthernBeagles said:


> A responsible owner familiar with their breed would see the warning signs early on before it becomes an issue and put the dog down. I can GAURENTEE the dog that attacked my brother had to have shown SOME sign that either wasn't recognised due to ignorance of the breed, or was covered up or ignored. The problem is that the average Joe owners think "if I just keep him away from other people-dogs-farm animals-or what ever, he will be ok because I LOVE my dog and don't want to put him to sleep. So how is this the dogs fault if he is allowed to develope in such a manner that he becomes a liability?



So there are bad dogs? 

I see what you were saying now, I agree with that 

But some dogs are born bad in every breed.


----------



## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> A responsible owner familiar with their breed would see the warning signs early on before it becomes an issue and put the dog down. I can GAURENTEE the dog that attacked my brother had to have shown SOME sign that either wasn't recognised due to ignorance of the breed, or was covered up or ignored. The problem is that the average Joe owners think "if I just keep him away from other people-dogs-farm animals-or what ever, he will be ok because I LOVE my dog and don't want to put him to sleep. So how is this the dogs fault if he is allowed to develope in such a manner that he becomes a liability?



that's right if one of my dog did some thing like that the dog would not  do it twice that i can assure you the problems is people think its funny when they are  puppies and you shake there heads and they growl and bite your hand but what you are doing is teaching the puppy  then one day that pup  becomes a dog am not saying not to play with it but when it starts getting ruff you correct  the pup then when it is older it will know how to act with other. adog that you cant control is worthless. iwent to the feed and seed the other day  i was taking one of my dogs  for the owner to see and there was  a lady parked at the door in a truck on back was a male bird dog on back he jump of the truck and went at my dog the  lady told me he's always like that


----------



## lee hanson

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!


----------



## K9SAR

lee hanson said:


> Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!





lee hanson said:


> Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!



You posted this twice today. 

Here he comes..........wait for it....................


----------



## lee hanson

K9SAR said:


> You posted this twice today.
> 
> Here he comes..........wait for it....................



sorry


----------



## SouthernBeagles

I was Wondering where my beloved beagle breed placed on this test so out of curiosity, I googled "National Canine Temperament Testing Association" and can find no such website-Only other sites with the same exact worded quote as yours. Do you have a link to these statistics or this associations website? If not, where did you get this information?


----------



## adamray

polkhunt said:


> I just want to throw in my two cents on pit bulls. My cousin had a pit bull that they treated like a baby he was never taught to fight or mistreated, kids could ride him like a horse and he never tried to bite anyone but he would kill any stray dog that came in the yard. If anyone  brought their dog over to my cousins house he would kill that dog as well if he could get to them. I just know from seeing him in action it was just in his blood to kill another dog he would tremble and shake if you tried to hold him back from killing another dog. I  am not saying that it was just because he was a pit bull but that dog turned me off from ever wanting a pit bull.


dog aggression is one thing, people aggression is another.  There are tons of dogs that don't like other dogs, its not just pit bulls.  My family has always had golden retrievers, and i'll tell you they are much more people aggressive than my 3 pit bulls are.  They are great companions, they just need allot of attention.  Good info posted, i'm glad there are others that agree with me, they really are great dogs.


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## lee hanson

evrey year more than 2000 children in the us are killed , by there parents or guradians,ether threw abuse or neglect.a child is more than 800 times more likly to be killed by there caretaker than by a pit bull


----------



## dawg2

lee hanson said:


> Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!



Do you have a link?  I would like to see that info.


----------



## dawg2

lee hanson said:


> evrey year more than 2000 children in the us are killed , by there parents or guradians,ether threw abuse or neglect.a child is more than 800 times more likly to be killed by there caretaker than by a pit bull



...or a swimming pool, but we aren't talking about pools or caretakers


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## lee hanson

google pit bull facts vs legend............also supported by akc so look at them to...... don't bully my breed .com.....it hard to fine any research that support they are a bad family breed


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## lee hanson

we are talking about how dangerous they are if they are not the biggest threat to your family why are people more worried  about them rather then child molester why don't the news put the true dangers out there until a few years ago afirst time child molester  got only probation and fine am i the only one that thinks that not right


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## lee hanson

dawg2 said:


> Do you have a link?  I would like to see that info.



let me know when you look them up


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## SouthernBeagles

I am just wanting to see a link to the statistics from the National Canine Temperament Testing Association??? Can you please post this?? I don't think you made it up, sure you read this somewhere.......but this seems to be a phantom study that you may have gotten sucked into yourself? Hopefully not, but I really do want to see where the beagle falls on this list.


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## lee hanson

sorry idont  know how to post  a link call me ill be glad to tell you how to get to an navgate the site sorry 678 521 9952


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## lee hanson

ATTS Breed Statistics
as of December 2008

Page 1: Afghan Hound - Belgian Malinois
Breed Name                                                                             Tested Passed Failed Percent 
AFGHAN HOUND                                                                        161       116      45     72.0% 
AIREDALE TERRIER                                                                  100       77        23   77.0% 
AKBASH DOG                                                                                15        13         2    86.7% 
AKITA                                                                                          492       365     127   74.2% 
ALAPAHA BLUE BLOOD BULLDOG                                              8          5           3     62.5% 
ALASKAN MALAMUTE                                                                212       179      33      84.4% 
AMERICAN BULLDOG                                                                 170      144      26      84.7% 
AMERICAN ESKIMO                                                                      80         66     14       82.5% 
AMERICAN FOXHOUND                                                                  2            2      0      100.0% 
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER                                                665         567    98       85.3% 
AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER                                  570         478     92       83.9% 
AMERICAN TUNNEL TERRIER                                                      2             2       0      100.0% 
AMERICAN WATER SPANIEL                                                        7             6       1        85.7% 
ANATOLIAN SHEPHERD DOG                                                     30           24       6        80.0% 
AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG                                                       173         135    38         78.0% 
AUSTRALIAN KELPIE                                                                     6              5      1          83.3% 
AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD                                                           610         494   116        81.0% 
AUSTRALIAN TERRIER                                                                16            13       3        81.3% 
AZAWAKH                                                                                         1              1       0       100.0% 
BASENJI                                                                                        163          110     53       67.5% 
BASSET HOUND                                                                             34             29       5        85.3% 
BEAGLE                                                                                            63            51      12        81.0% 
BEARDED COLLIE                                                                           45            24      21        53.3% 
BEAUCERON                                                                                    17            14        3         82.4% 
BEDLINGTON TERRIER                                                                 19             18       1           94.7% 
BELGIAN LAEKENOIS                                                                       6               6        0          100.0% 
BELGIAN MALINOIS                                                                     272            249      23          91.5% 

First  Previous  Next  Last


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## Tuffdawg

lee hanson said:


> lol thanks man


 WO-man


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## SouthernBeagles

That which you have posted came from the American Temperament Test Society, Inc. I had found that already but doesn't say anything much about anything. The only way to truely compare one breed to another is to pool the same amount of dogs for each test. You can't say because 2 dogs of one breed is tested, 1 passes, 1 fails you get a 50%......then compare that to a breed where 500 dogs were tested.
This is Not even the same as The National Canine Temperament Testing Association which you quoted.
To post a link, just copy and paste the http: address in the address bar.
Let me know if you can find that phantom study


----------



## Tuffdawg

SouthernBeagles said:


> That which you have posted came from the American Temperament Test Society, Inc. I had found that already but doesn't say anything much about anything. The only way to truely compare one breed to another is to pool the same amount of dogs for each test. You can't say because 2 dogs of one breed is tested, 1 passes, 1 fails you get a 50%......then compare that to a breed where 500 dogs were tested.
> This is Not even the same as The National Canine Temperament Testing Association which you quoted.
> To post a link, just copy and paste the http: address in the address bar.
> Let me know if you can find that phantom study


Actually you can have different numbers of test subjects  and come out with the same percentages and ratios. As long as they are even numbers.


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## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> That which you have posted came from the American Temperament Test Society, Inc. I had found that already but doesn't say anything much about anything. The only way to truely compare one breed to another is to pool the same amount of dogs for each test. You can't say because 2 dogs of one breed is tested, 1 passes, 1 fails you get a 50%......then compare that to a breed where 500 dogs were tested.
> This is Not even the same as The National Canine Temperament Testing Association which you quoted.
> To post a link, just copy and paste the http: address in the address bar.
> Let me know if you can find that phantom study


pitbull where  the high tested almost 600 and only 98 failed am not lying are making any thing up if you dont believe me  then look at akc they agree


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## SouthernBeagles

Believe me....I am having fun debating this and mean no disrespect to anyone. 

I would have to disagree that if two beagles are randomally tested and one of the two doesn't pass this test for what ever reason given the score for the breed a 50%, that it can be compared to a study done on say.......Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity -----zu's where say 300 were tested and 12 fail -that the results could be even compared. What if the first two Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity -----zu's tested failed but they didn't have another failure until they got to dog #101? Now if we took away ALL of the othe Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity -----zu's tested except for the first 2 dogs that failed-this would give the Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----=zu's a 0. Would that be fair to compare? Just saying that unless you sampled the same amount of dogs for each breed, you just can't compare.


----------



## SouthernBeagles

SouthernBeagles said:


> Believe me....I am having fun debating this and mean no disrespect to anyone.
> 
> I would have to disagree that if two beagles are randomally tested and one of the two doesn't pass this test for what ever reason given the score for the breed a 50%, that it can be compared to a study done on say.......s-hi-t-zu's where say 300 were tested and 12 fail -that the results could be even compared. What if the first two s-hi-t-zu's tested failed but they didn't have another failure until they got to dog #101? Now if we took away ALL of the other S-hi-t-zu's tested except for the first 2 dogs that failed-this would give the S-hi-t-zu's a 0%. Would that be fair to compare? Just saying that unless you sampled the same amount of dogs for each breed, you just can't compare.



Had to redo this because it says Sh-it-zu's is a bad word


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## Tuffdawg

SouthernBeagles said:


> Had to redo this because it says Sh-it-zu's is a bad word



Your over analyzing it. 

100 dogs tested. 25 fail 75 pass = 75% pass rate. 
200 dogs tested  50 fail 150 pass=75% pass rate
300 dogs tested 75fail 225 pass = 75% pass rate. 
400 dogs tested 100 fail 300 pass= 75% pass rate.

No realistic study is going to use only two test subject to determine any type of ratio for anything. Thats not considered a study, its considered a competition. Any real study is going to have at least 50+ test subjects. And another thing to consider, they probably based their subject numbers based on the ratio of how many are registered in that breed. theres not the same amount of pugs in this world as there are whippets.


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## Tuffdawg

SouthernBeagles said:


> Believe me....I am having fun debating this and mean no disrespect to anyone.



 No harm no foul


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## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles;50337198 f3 said:
			
		

> Had to redo this because it says Sh-it-zu's is a bad word



ya but only 98 of almost 600 ain't that bad wish i could meet 600 people and only 98 failed to pass my perfect person test  also the 98 the failed obviously the ones that  went bad dog or there owners would have  never had them tested  but that  just what i think test don;t say


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## lee hanson

Tuffdawg said:


> No harm no foul



your good with me every one should be heard  i dont think you was try to offend any one


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## lee hanson

bump


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## lee hanson

Tuffdawg said:


> WO-man



hey i just got that


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## Tuffdawg

lee hanson said:


> hey i just got that



 OMG it took you long enough.


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## lee hanson

yo'll  have that from time to time


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## Tuffdawg

lee hanson said:


> yo'll  have that from time to time



 I think the call was the dead giveaway


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## lee hanson

Tuffdawg said:


> I think the call was the dead giveaway



ya if it wasn't for the call probably would have never got it lol


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## K9SAR

SouthernBeagles said:


> Had to redo this because it says Sh-it-zu's is a bad word



But Shih-Tzu is not


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## lee hanson

K9SAR said:


> But Shih-Tzu is not



wow


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## lee hanson

MYTH: A Pit Bull that shows aggression towards an animal will go for people next. 

"Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance. 

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals - never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children. 

A pit bull that snarls, lunges or growls at non-threatening humans is NOT typical of the breed." (Written by Diane Jessup)
Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans


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## lee hanson

no one likes the truth


----------



## lee hanson




----------



## Tuffdawg

lee hanson said:


>



 your a


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## lee hanson

Just hoping some people will read some of the facts befor thay post a respons


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## Fatz

Before you buy any dog you should educate yourself about the breed you are interested in.  Don’t buy a dog because you think they are cute or whatever.  Know what you are getting into.  When you buy a dog, make sure you see the parents.  Make sure the parents have a good temperament and are healthy.  Then temperament test the puppy before you buy it.  The last thing you want in a pit bull or any powerful breed is a scary fear bitter.  

Once you have chosen your puppy, train it accordingly.  Socialize it as much as you can.  The puppy needs to be around as many different sounds and situations as possible.   Lastly, and most important in my opinion is always have control over your dog.  The dog should never run free.  If you are out in public the dog needs to be on a leash.  This gives you more control over your dog.  Then people will see you with a well-behaved pit, rott, Doberman, etc.  And they will take away a positive experience with bigger stronger dogs.  Just my 2 cents!


----------



## lee hanson

Fatz said:


> Before you buy any dog you should educate yourself about the breed you are interested in.  Don’t buy a dog because you think they are cute or whatever.  Know what you are getting into.  When you buy a dog, make sure you see the parents.  Make sure the parents have a good temperament and are healthy.  Then temperament test the puppy before you buy it.  The last thing you want in a pit bull or any powerful breed is a scary fear bitter.
> 
> Once you have chosen your puppy, train it accordingly.  Socialize it as much as you can.  The puppy needs to be around as many different sounds and situations as possible.   Lastly, and most important in my opinion is always have control over your dog.  The dog should never run free.  If you are out in public the dog needs to be on a leash.  This gives you more control over your dog.  Then people will see you with a well-behaved pit, rott, Doberman, etc.  And they will take away a positive experience with bigger stronger dogs.  Just my 2 cents!


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## lee hanson

ttt


----------



## bawlingtall

Btt


----------



## bawlingtall

Btt


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## bawlingtall

Btt


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## lee hanson

bump


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## SouthernBeagles

Ewwww Lee,
Was thinking of you while watching the news a couple of days ago because I know how much you defend and love your breed. 
Did you see the story about the 80something year old man that was mauled by his neighbors four pit bulls? The dogs got out of the yard and attacked him unprovoked. 
I know not all pits are bad, but why do you think this breed is more prone to this type of attack? It was as if these dogs were on a hunting mission.
The man will recover and didn't want to press charges against the neighbor and the neighbor did the right thing and turned over his dogs to be destroyed.
Very sad situation for all.


----------



## TheBadfish

I think the social aspect of these situations should be examined more closely than the breed. Behavior is learned from somewhere.


----------



## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> Ewwww Lee,
> Was thinking of you while watching the news a couple of days ago because I know how much you defend and love your breed.
> Did you see the story about the 80something year old man that was mauled by his neighbors four pit bulls? The dogs got out of the yard and attacked him unprovoked.
> I know not all pits are bad, but why do you think this breed is more prone to this type of attack? It was as if these dogs were on a hunting mission.
> The man will recover and didn't want to press charges against the neighbor and the neighbor did the right thing and turned over his dogs to be destroyed.
> Very sad situation for all.


it is very sad . but in defense  that one dog  not a breed and how many other dogs bit some one this week end but failed to make the news  some dogs are good some are not. just like some people are good  while some   are evil.they did the right thing by  having the dog but down


----------



## SouthernBeagles

Watching the news now. Another pit bull attack. Three pits attacked a woman yesterday. Her face is ruined! 
Fox 5 has the story.


----------



## Nitro

SouthernBeagles said:


> Watching the news now. Another pit bull attack. Three pits attacked a woman yesterday. Her face is ruined!
> Fox 5 has the story.



Sad story indeed. She would have been mauled to death if not for her neighbors intervening.


----------



## lee hanson

Nitro said:


> Sad story indeed. She would have been mauled to death if not for her neighbors intervening.



hey what all do you hunt with your dogs


----------



## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> Watching the news now. Another pit bull attack. Three pits attacked a woman yesterday. Her face is ruined!
> Fox 5 has the story.



Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed. so it must be the owners


----------



## dawg2

SouthernBeagles said:


> Watching the news now. Another pit bull attack. Three pits attacked a woman yesterday. Her face is ruined!
> Fox 5 has the story.





Nitro said:


> Sad story indeed. She would have been mauled to death if not for her neighbors intervening.


I hope they lock up the owners and throw away the key.


----------



## T.P.

lee hanson said:


> hey what all do you hunt with your dogs



Not people.


----------



## rjcruiser

dawg2 said:


> I hope they lock up the owners and throw away the key.



bingo.  They need to make the penalty so harsh that people realize it just isn't worth it to own a dog that has the high potential to go crazy.


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## SouthernBeagles

The story last night said the dog owners were away and there was a care taker there for the dogs. So who's fault was it? The owners or the care takers? It sure wasn't that womans fault! All she was doing was taking her daily walk around the block.
They also had a debate on Fox 5 about the bullies. Really the lady that defended the pit breed didn't argue too much for yall. All she was trying to say is that the problem came from mixing the bulldogs with mastiffs? That the purebreds got a bad rap because of this?? The doctor she was debating said that half of the dog bites they got in there were from pit bull attacks. 100% of the attacks that killed or injured so bad to the point of hospitalization and recronstructive surgeries were from pits. Interestingly enough, while he was in rout to the debate at the station, he had ANOTHER call of a pit bull attack just last night!

Lee: I hunt rabbits with my beagles. They are scent hounds. This means they follow the rabbits trail and bay at the scent. This puts pressure on the rabbit. When the rabbit feels like the dogs are getting too close, he runs. Rabbits make a natural circle when they run they leave more scent for the dogs to follow so the hunters job is to position themselves in line with where they think the rabbit will run by listening to the music of the hounds and attempt to harvest the game. In other words, they aren't pit dogs or attack dogs and they almost never catch a rabbit unless it is wounded, young or just stupid. Then they don't eat it, they just bring it to me. They are just scent junkies! Heck if you were to break into my house, they would show you the valuables then try to lick you to death! (thats why I keep my big dog). Beagles were bred for a much different purpose than your pits. You can not even begin to compare a beagle to a pit in any way shape or form, lol.


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## biker13

I got bit by the neighbors Rottweiler last monday,didn't make the news though.The owner did check up on me and offer to pay any doctor bills.


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## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> The story last night said the dog owners were away and there was a care taker there for the dogs. So who's fault was it? The owners or the care takers? It sure wasn't that womans fault! All she was doing was taking her daily walk around the block.
> They also had a debate on Fox 5 about the bullies. Really the lady that defended the pit breed didn't argue too much for yall. All she was trying to say is that the problem came from mixing the bulldogs with mastiffs? That the purebreds got a bad rap because of this?? The doctor she was debating said that half of the dog bites they got in there were from pit bull attacks. 100% of the attacks that killed or injured so bad to the point of hospitalization and recronstructive surgeries were from pits. Interestingly enough, while he was in rout to the debate at the station, he had ANOTHER call of a pit bull attack just last night!
> 
> Lee: I hunt rabbits with my beagles. They are scent hounds. This means they follow the rabbits trail and bay at the scent. This puts pressure on the rabbit. When the rabbit feels like the dogs are getting too close, he runs. Rabbits make a natural circle when they run they leave more scent for the dogs to follow so the hunters job is to position themselves in line with where they think the rabbit will run by listening to the music of the hounds and attempt to harvest the game. In other words, they aren't pit dogs or attack dogs and they almost never catch a rabbit unless it is wounded, young or just stupid. Then they don't eat it, they just bring it to me. They are just scent junkies! Heck if you were to break into my house, they would show you the valuables then try to lick you to death! (thats why I keep my big dog). Beagles were bred for a much different purpose than your pits. You can not even begin to compare a beagle to a pit in any way shape or form, lol.



how many times does the news or animal control  check to make sure it even a pit bull every thing get called a pit we went to a mobile vet one time to get some shots we told them we had a am staff he  put pit on the vet papers i told him again  that the dog was an akc reg am staff  he told me they are all pit to him


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## lee hanson

dlsbiker13 said:


> I got bit by the neighbors Rottweiler last monday,didn't make the news though.The owner did check up on me and offer to pay any doctor bills.


i konw what you mean i've been bit by a mix mutt up the sreet,rottweiler when i was a kidand my grand daddy had a lab that got me pretty good no news report


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## SouthernBeagles

Did either of you guys have to be hospitalized (extended stay-not ER) and have reconstructive surgery? This is what that Doctor was pointing out. When pits attack, the intent is to kill. He also says they almost ALWAYS go for the face and neck too. Where were your bites?


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## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> Did either of you guys have to be hospitalized (extended stay-not ER) and have reconstructive surgery? This is what that Doctor was pointing out. When pits attack, the intent is to kill. He also says they almost ALWAYS go for the face and neck too. Where were your bites?



so now doctors know the very intent of a dog he has never seen


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## SouthernBeagles

Awww Lee, you can do better than that can't ya? 

Common sense tells you if a dog is going for the face and throat he is aiming to kill you. Where did that mix breed dog bite you? Serious question.


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## lee hanson

For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."


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## lee hanson

SouthernBeagles said:


> Awww Lee, you can do better than that can't ya?
> 
> Common sense tells you if a dog is going for the face and throat he is aiming to kill you. Where did that mix breed dog bite you? Serious question.



pm you cell # ill text you the pics of all my bite the mix  mutt got me over my right best just above my arm pit the rott got me on my right but cheek the lab got me on the  knuckel for peting him i dont know how to post the pics on here from my phone but ill send them to you and you can post them


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## lee hanson

lee hanson said:


> For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.
> 
> "We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.
> 
> "This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."



i guess the er doc know more


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## Nitro

Perhaps more  not genetically dangerous, but sheerly by the genetic build of the breed - more deadly. 

You Pit Bull fans can try to sugar coat it all you want. The size, power and capability to defend through  injury and or intimidation is part of the reason these breeds have become so popular among certain demographics.


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## lee hanson

size 25-60 lbs that not big


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## dawg2

lee hanson said:


> size 25-60 lbs that not big



My dog (Not a PB) is only 55 lbs, but it can drag down a full grown deer or hog and win a fight with a 40lb bobcat.  "Size" isn't everything.


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## lee hanson

Nitro said:


> Perhaps more  not genetically dangerous, but sheerly by the genetic build of the breed - more deadly.
> 
> You Pit Bull fans can try to sugar coat it all you want. The size, power and capability to defend through  injury and or intimidation is part of the reason these breeds have become so popular among certain demographics.



i think any one that put the dogs in movies or rap videos trying  to make them look mean should be charged with pr emoting dog violence . thay teach kids it ok to  make these dog  mean


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## lee hanson

this is not a new breed so what has changed? not the breed


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## lee hanson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pit Bulls have locking jaws." The jaws of the Pit Bull are functionally 
the same as the jaws of any other breed, and this has been proven via 
expert examination.

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the 
skulls, mandibles and teeth of Pit Bulls show that, in proportion to their 
size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is 
no different than that of any [other] breed of dog. There is absolutely 
not evidence for the existence of any kind of ’locking mechanism’ unique 
to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier, 
says Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia (from the ADBA 
booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

"Pit Bulls can hold on with their front teeth while chewing with their 
back teeth." As stated above, the Pit Bull’s jaws are, functionally 
speaking, the same as all other breeds.

“Pit Bulls don’t feel pain.” Pit Bulls have the same nervous system of 
any other breed, and they can and do feel pain. Historically, those dogs 
that would tolerate or ignore discomfort and pain and finish the task 
they were required to perform were the dogs that were bred and the 
sort of dogs breeders strove to produce. This is the trait of “gameness” 
that so many breed fanciers speak of, which may be defined as, “The 
desire to continue on and/or complete a task despite pain and 
discomfort.”

“Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any 
other breed.” This is absolutely false.

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several 
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower 
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that 
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. 
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative 
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit 
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The 
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. 
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the 
highest on record for any domestic canine.

What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the 
breed supposedly has??? It's a MYTH, pure and simple.


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## Nitro

What is not myth, nor irrefutable - due to the evidence is that these type dogs are involved in more and more frequent severe and/or fatal maulings (which is obviously different than a nip or a bite)...


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## lee hanson

Are Pit Bulls Dangerous Dogs?
Fact: Out of the estimated 53 million dogs in the United States 92 fatal attacks are contributed to Pit Bulls or Pit Bull Mixes (2 were from American Staffordshire Terriers) from 1965-2001.

Source: Fatal Dog Attacks by Karen Delise

Imagine that. 53 million dogs. 92 fatal attacks out of 431 that span a 37 year period (1965-2001). Now I ask you, after looking at the numbers do we have a dangerous dog problem?

During that time period for my state of Kentucky there were 9 fatal dog attacks. Only one was a Pit Bull "type" dog. 

Another attack during that time frame for my state was a Dachshund that killed a 14 day old baby after jumping in his crib.

Do we have a dangerous dog problem or is it being sensationalized to sell newspapers and create panic?

Fatal dog attacks by dangerous dogs are almost non-existent. 20 a year out of millions of dogs. The percentages are estimated to be somewhere around .0000004% of dog attacks are fatal


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## lee hanson

If Pit Bulls Are Not Dangerous Dogs Why Do We have a Pit Bull Problem?
Personally I think the Pit Bull problem has more to do with people having a problem with Pit Bulls not the other way around.

Pit Bulls are outstanding dogs, like any dog that is well loved, trained, exercised, and cared for properly can be.

However, Pit Bulls are different. They are infectious with their energy and their wiliness to suffer the abuses of society and come back with a big goofy grin and a tongue lying in wait to lick the first face that gets close enough.

I have rescued dogs and I have seen dogs that were abused and neglected hop in my lap, look deep into my eyes and plant a smack of a lick right on my forehead. 

Pit Bulls are different for sure. They expose humans for the cruel and inhumane beasts we are and we don't like it.

Pit Bulls are not dangerous dogs. They are however, abused, sold to irresponsible owners, the favorite dogs of drug dealers, and street gangs and this is by far the most damaging part of the problem.

Even with these record numbers of dogs these days the fatal attacks caused by Pit Bulls is nothing compared to the inhumanity we face on a daily basis. We are talking about 20 fatal attacks by dogs a year, most of which are not Pit Bulls, this is not a Pit Bull problem folks.


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## lee hanson

CDC Stats are out dated
The Center for Disease Control statistics are outdated and often misused in situations like creating a breed specific law.

The problem is not breed specific but people specific. As I mentioned, irresponsible owners, gang members, dog fighters, and others who use the breed to boost their own macho attitudes and cruel intentions are the problem.

However, regulating them would be near impossible or too costly, at least that is the governments excuse for not doing anything other than banning or restricting the breed.

God forbid if we expected people to have to take responsibility for their actions.

CDC stats are outdated and this contributes to the problem as well. Pro-BSL people like PETA and other groups of fanatics use them to skew the picture into the picture they want the public to see.

Uneducated government officials believe these groups and the general public eats their Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- with a giant spoon.

As Pit Bull owners around the world suffer from unrealistic expectations and BSL these groups sit on their all knowing thrones and laugh and feel powerful.

New statistics are in order for sure, but figuring out the exact population of dogs is as impossible a task if there ever was one.


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## lee hanson

What do We Then?
We fight and kick and claw and scratch and yell from the roof tops, "Listen! We have a voice and we are going to use it!"

We unite and fight back at these groups and the government butt kissing politicians that make these laws by speaking out and being heard before BSL is an issue.

Education of our children is the first step. For they are the future and if that future will include the American Pit Bull Terrier then our children must know and understand what a real Pit Bull is and how to handle them.

Then we walk to the court house steps and stomp our feet a while and make it known, "We will not lay down and take this anymore!"

Change is only made when many become one and unite under a righteous cause. Saving our Pit Bulls from extinction is a righteous cause don't you think?


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## SCOTT HILDERBRAND

When my German Shorthair _Pointer_ was 8 weeks old you could roll a stuffed toy across the floor and she would run over to it, raise her little paw and point at it.  My treeing walker coonhound would sit in the floor and bark at a toy placed on a table where she couldn't get it.  This was instinct that was bred into them over generations of selective breeding. 
 I believe if I rolled the same toy across the floor in front of an 8 week pitbull, he would grab it and tear all of the stuffing out of it.  It is what his instincts tell him to do.


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## lee hanson

Ten Facts About Pit Bulls Every One Should Know 
1. Pit Bulls are commonly used as therapy dogs. Whether they are visiting a senior care facility or helping someone recover from an emotional accident, Pit Bulls are making a mark as outstanding therapy dogs.

2. Pit Bulls are used in Search and Rescue work. One example of well known SAR Pit Bulls is Kris Crawford and her dogs. Kris and her dogs have helped save the lives of many people during their efforts. http://www.ForPitsSake.org

3. Pit Bulls serve as narcotic and bomb sniffing dogs. One Pit Bull, Popsicle (named that because he was found in an old freezer) has the largest recorded single drug find in Texas history. Read more about Popsicle here. Including how he found over 3,000 lbs of cocaine in Hildago, Texas. 

4. Pit Bulls are great with kids. They weren't referred to as the "nanny's dog" for nothing that's for sure.

5. Pit Bulls are not human aggressive. The American Pit Bull Terrier as a breed is not human aggressive. In fact, quite the opposite is true of the breed. They are gentle and loving dogs. Like any dog individuals can be unsound and have behavior problems.

6. The Pit Bull was so popular in the early 1900's they were our mascot not only in World War One, but World War Two as well. They were featured on recruiting and propoganda posters during this time period.

7. Sgt. Stubby. A Pit Bull war hero. Stubby was wounded in action twice, he saved his entire platoon by warning them of a poison gas attack and he single handedly captured a German spy.

8. Pete the Pup on the orginal Little Rascals was a Pit Bull.

9. Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. That's better than the popular Border Collie (a breed who scores 79.6%). View the ATTS stats here.

10. They are dogs not killing machines.


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## TheBadfish

Yes, these dogs are very built and have instincts. The problem isn't their genetics, it is people not respecting a powerful breed. Criminalization does not work. Look at the drug trade if you don't believe it. It grows daily. If we are so worried about killing people, lets make cigarettes illegal. Everyone knows they kill thousands of people a year. Automobiles as well and lets finally eradicate religion, the number one killer of people throughout the course of human history.


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## lee hanson

SCOTT HILDERBRAND said:


> When my German Shorthair _Pointer_ was 8 weeks old you could roll a stuffed toy across the floor and she would run over to it, raise her little paw and point at it.  My treeing walker coonhound would sit in the floor and bark at a toy placed on a table where she couldn't get it.  This was instinct that was bred into them over generations of selective breeding.
> I believe if I rolled the same toy across the floor in front of an 8 week pitbull, he would grab it and tear all of the stuffing out of it.  It is what his instincts tell him to do.



read my next post


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## lee hanson

From Near Death to Bomb Detection Dog: How a Pit Bull is Working Hard to Keep Us Safe
 By Jason Mann
A short time ago the story you are about to read was brought to my attention. I was checking my email and saw an email with the subject, "A wonderful story about Neville."
Wonderful is right as it shows how things can quickly change in our world. You are about to read the story of Neville. A story of how a dog that was "dangerous" according to Canadian Breed Specific Legislation went from almost being put down to bomb detection dog here in the United States of America.
Without further ado... Here's the story...
Breed Specific Legislation Puts Neville in Danger
On August 25th 2005 Canada in their great wisdom passed a BSL law in Ontario banning American Pit Bull Terriers. This law put Neville in danger. Gerogina shelter in Ontario is where Neville was placed.
After the word spread about Neville he found a place to live. However, the 2500 transport needed wasn't working as planned and he was left to wait and possible be put down as rescue's and volunteers worked frantically to arrange for his transport.
An Angel from Above Offers Much Needed Help
When things were at their most desperate, when everyone involved was about to throw in the towel, a person stepped up and offered to fly Neville (and another dog Nitro) to the US.
After being Fostered for an Evening Neville Lands Safely in Seattle on March 20th 2005
Neville settled in for the long wait as a foster dog with his foster Mom. Much to her delight he was not underweight but in great shape and he was well trained. If every rescue APBT came like this we would have so much more success adopting them out!
His Foster mom had this to say about him, "Neville was just full of surprises. He was un reactive to other dogs, ignored my cats, loved my kids and was just a joy to have around. We discovered a dog that was extremely well behaved and had wonderful manners. No matter what I thought of he was completely unflappable. I even took him to a parade where he made a ton of new friends and never ceased to astound me. "
Neville was tossing out surprise after surprise to his foster mom and this is where Neville's story takes a turn.
Detection Dogs Wanted
 Diane Jessup has an awesome program called, Law Dogs. Law Dogs is a program to find homeless APBT's and other bullies and test them for police work as detection dogs for drugs and bombs.
Nevilles foster mom was encouraged to contact Diane and see if she would take a look at Neville because Diane was searching for bomb sniffing candidates for the Washington State Patrol detection dog program.
In Neville's moms own words, " After I posted a few brags about him on a few forums several people suggested I contact Diane Jessup as she was looking for dogs to try out for the Washington State Patrol to be trained as bomb sniffing dogs. I thought it was highly unlikely but what the heck..I emailed Diane anyway's. "
Well, much to her surprise Diane contacted her quickly and after some scheduling Diane arrived at Neville's home to test him out.
His mom, said, "I fully expected to hear "what a nice dog, thanks for trying" and I am pretty sure she expected to say something along those lines. That did not happen. She liked Nev immediately and within a short time, before she even left my house, she was on the phone with her contact from the State Patrol, scheduling a time to meet."
Let's Hurry up and Wait
Diane's contact at the State Patrol evaluated Neville and was very pleased with him. He tried to contact his superior but he couldn't get a hold of him so Neville went home with Diane for more waiting.
I don't know, it seems to me that Neville should get a medal just for the waiting part! )
After a stay with Diane the officer had contacted her and Neville had to pass one more test before he could be accepted into the detection dog program.
More waiting for mom!
Neville Made it in with Flying Colors
Finally, after a long 24 hour wait word came that Neville had passed his final test with flying colors and he was accepted into the State Patrols program.
Neville immediately went into training and graduated in August 2005.
Imagine that for a moment. From a dog scheduled to be put to sleep simply for being a Pit Bull to Officer Neville of the Washington State Patrol in 5 months.
Office Neville Protects the Public
 Today Officer Neville screens over 200 cars a day on the Washington State Ferry system to help keep us safe from bombs.
I am getting chills as I write this story because it's so exciting! Not to mention it is a shot in the arm for breed relations and the value of a rescue dog as an option besides buying from an expensive breeder.
Pay close attention to Neville's story. People paid lots of money, spent hundreds of hours of their personal time, all for a dog they didn't even know.

They deserve our gratitude and respect for their undying compassion in the face of a law that is foolish at best.
Do you have a rescue dog? Do you think they might make a great Law Dog?
 I can't say enough about Diane Jessup's Law Dog program. Not only is this program going to save the lives of Pit Bulls and other bullies in need, it is going to help keep us safe too.
Bomb and drug dogs are in great demand. Departments spend upwards of $12,000 per dog and their resources are limited.
Law Dogs is a great program that gives back to society in a big way. Even though society is constantly trying to take our rights and our dogs from us, the Law Dogs Program is essential for helping restore the honor our dogs deserve.
While spots are limited (dogs with the right characteristics do not grow on trees) Diane has opened up evaluations from January 10th through February 5th 2006.


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## TheBadfish

You know if the argument was over a shooting then EVERYONE on this board would be ranting over thier gun rights, and blaming the individual and not the gun itself. No one blames the fork for you being obese. People are to blame for the treatment of animals. Not the animal itself. Social problem not genetic flaw.


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## lee hanson

SCOTT HILDERBRAND said:


> When my German Shorthair _Pointer_ was 8 weeks old you could roll a stuffed toy across the floor and she would run over to it, raise her little paw and point at it.  My treeing walker coonhound would sit in the floor and bark at a toy placed on a table where she couldn't get it.  This was instinct that was bred into them over generations of selective breeding.
> I believe if I rolled the same toy across the floor in front of an 8 week pitbull, he would grab it and tear all of the stuffing out of it.  It is what his instincts tell him to do.



if i put some up that my pup wants he well bark to


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## SCOTT HILDERBRAND

A gun, a fork, a car, a religion, a cigarette are all inanimate objects that human beings have control over.  A dog has his own thought processes, insticts and intuitions that we can only try to regulate but cannot fully control.
Unfortunately, typical of these attacks, the dogs are unprovoked and a deep instinctive trigger mechanism in their psyche is released causing then to do what they were bred to do. Which is chase, grab and kill game.
A lady jogging in her neighborhood, a child playing in his yard did not make  conscience decisions to be involved in a dog fight.


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## lee hanson

how meny of these events did you wittness


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## lee hanson

SCOTT HILDERBRAND said:


> A gun, a fork, a car, a religion, a cigarette are all inanimate objects that human beings have control over.  A dog has his own thought processes, insticts and intuitions that we can only try to regulate but cannot fully control.
> Unfortunately, typical of these attacks, the dogs are unprovoked and a deep instinctive trigger mechanism in their psyche is released causing then to do what they were bred to do. Which is chase, grab and kill game.
> A lady jogging in her neighborhood, a child playing in his yard did not make  conscience decisions to be involved in a dog fight.



Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companions despite the unfair press they receive. A common question regarding the APBT is, "How is this breed different from the American Staffordshire Terrier?". In the eyes of the United Kennel Club, they are the same breed, but many disagree. Some AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terriers are dual-registered as American Pit Bull Terriers with the UKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. The AKC, on the other hand, does not allow a UKC-registered American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier. To be dual-registered, the dog must first be an AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terrier and then it can be registered with the UKC as an APBT -- but not vice versa... Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. Solid training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog


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## SouthernBeagles

Well this is what I think (scary me thinking, lol).
I can't really think of a good way to keep these dogs out of bad owners hands. 
If you require the dogs to be registered in the county or city, the thugs won't bother with it anyway- just the law abiding folks will.
If you outlaw this breed, you are opening up the door for more govt control over all other breeds. Not to mention, you are punishing the responsible owners with good pit dogs just prevent attacks by dogs owned by bad owners.

So after much thought, I think if you own ANY BREED of dog that maules (not bites but mauls) a person unprovoked, you should be charged with attempted murder and I think the sentence should reflect on the severity of the attack ranging from 5 years (for neck and face injuries)to life (if the dog actually kills someone). I think the only exception would be if someone breaks into your home and the dog is protecting the inside of the dwelling or if the dog is defending you or your family. There would have to be common sense applied.

I think the average Joe would be less inclined to own a powerful breed withough fully educating themselves on the breed. I also think it would make people a WHOLE LOT MORE CAREFUL about how they train and confine the dog or who they let the dog around.

It will not stop people from owning these dogs, but it will punish them for their irresponsibility.

Lee? Is this something we can agree on?


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## SouthernBeagles

I might also add that the owner should be responsible charged even if someone else was taking care of them.


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## NGaHunter

I want to know where Lee is Copying all of these post from....they can't be his words, there is punctuation in the post.

Come on Lee...fess up, where are you getting these post from?


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## SouthernBeagles

NGaHunter said:


> I want to know where Lee is Copying all of these post from....they can't be his words, there is punctuation in the post.
> 
> Come on Lee...fess up, where are you getting these post from?



Google


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## NGaHunter

Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament 

Just checked that web site...pit bulls are not even listed

try again


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## TheBadfish

I believe that some people should not own this breed the same way that some people should not own a firearm. Responsibility goes along way. Socialization, control, and proper raising makes for good pets. I just don't believe a dog with wake up and decide, "today, I want to maul someone". And don't believe everything you hear through the media. Their job is to ruffle your feathers not to tell the whole truth because drama sells.


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## gadeerwoman

Biggest problem is with idiot owners of ALL breeds who continue to allow their dogs to run free at will. It's not always the breed but the fact that some people should not be allowed to breed !


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## SouthernBeagles

I agree with you but just like owning a fire arm. If you kill or attempt to kill someone, you go to prison. Owning a dog that mauls someone is like owning a gun with a mind of its own. Shouldn't the owner do life if they own a dog that kills someone? Shouldn't they be charged with attempted murder if the dog just mauls someone?
To heck with the media- I think people should be held responsible for the choices they make-In this case the choice to own a dog capable of an unprovoked mauling or killing. Don't really care what the breed is.


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## bawlingtall

Btt


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## biker13

Well here he is,Vladimir Gestapo,blue/fawn,ADBA 9110M-...He ain't just a Pit he's a member of the family.Think the world of him.


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## lee hanson

NGaHunter said:


> Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament
> 
> Just checked that web site...pit bulls are not even listed
> 
> try again



Breed Name Tested Passed Failed Percent 
AFGHAN HOUND 162 117 45 72.2% 
AIREDALE TERRIER 101 78 23 77.2% 
AKBASH DOG 15 13 2 86.7% 
AKITA 514 387 127 75.3% 
ALAPAHA BLUE BLOOD BULLDOG 10 7 3 70.0% 
ALASKAN KLEE KAI 2 1 1 50.0% 
ALASKAN MALAMUTE 222 189 33 85.1% 
AMERICAN BULLDOG 178 151 27 84.8% 
AMERICAN ESKIMO 82 68 14 82.9% 
AMERICAN FOXHOUND 2  2 0 100.0% 
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 772  664 108 86.0% 
yes they are here its try looking agin


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## lee hanson

what  i cant get is  a lot of you say you are tired of my post so all day i havent posted on my on post but still yall do i think some  of yall just like to fuss be mean and bully others then you have the never to talk about a dog god help us all


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## lee hanson

NGaHunter said:


> I want to know where Lee is Copying all of these post from....they can't be his words, there is punctuation in the post.
> 
> Come on Lee...fess up, where are you getting these post from?



i take from the way you attack others you don't attend church if you do maybe you should listen more  for now ill just be praying for you to learn how to treat other i bet these few cases of bad dog where owned by people much  like your self that's where they learn to treat other like some thing lower on the food chain i may not be good at punctuation but i know how to sow others respect which one makes some one a better person am not going to fight with you if you dont like what  i talk about just pass my post on by god bless you


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## lee hanson

NGaHunter said:


> Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament
> 
> Just checked that web site...pit bulls are not even listed
> 
> try again



ADDRESS & PHONE NUMBER
American Temperament Test Society, Inc.
PO Box 800130
Balch Springs, TX 75180
(972) 557-2887

go to the site it on page 1  it will say   ATTS Breed Statistics
up to June 12, 2010
Data is cumulative since the start of ATTS in 1977. Breeds are listed in alphabetical order:

Page 1: Afghan Hound - Belgian Malinois

yall just plz look for your self  or give them a call then you see how telling the truth look for american pit bull terrier not pit bulls it in the a's     YALL LET ME KNOW IF YOU SEE APBT ON THE SITE


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## lee hanson

lee hanson said:


> ADDRESS & PHONE NUMBER
> American Temperament Test Society, Inc.
> PO Box 800130
> Balch Springs, TX 75180
> (972) 557-2887
> 
> go to the site it on page 1  it will say   ATTS Breed Statistics
> up to June 12, 2010
> Data is cumulative since the start of ATTS in 1977. Breeds are listed in alphabetical order:
> 
> Page 1: Afghan Hound - Belgian Malinois
> 
> yall just plz look for your self  or give them a call then you see how telling the truth look for american pit bull terrier not pit bulls it in the a's     YALL LET ME KNOW IF YOU SEE APBT ON THE SITE


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## Etter2

I've been around thousands of dogs in my life.  I've been attacked by two.  Both were pitbulls.  Both drew blood, and both are now dead.   They shouldn't exist.


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## lee hanson

dlsbiker13 said:


> Well here he is,Vladimir Gestapo,blue/fawn,ADBA 9110M-...He ain't just a Pit he's a member of the family.Think the world of him.



nice pup


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## lee hanson

Life through a Pit Bull’s Eyes
You breed me to be strong,
Now you think you were wrong.
I am man's best friend, 
Now you want me to meet my end.
I live to protect the ones that I love,
I'm the best of my breed a step above.
I'm as good as you raise me to be,
I was not born evil can't you see. 
I come in different shapes, sizes, and colors,
I'm here to serve my master just like all the others.
My master loves me as if one of their own, 
When I walk by there side or fetch a bone.
Here is a little history about my kind,
Always keep these facts in the back of your mind.
I lived in the white house with a President named Teddy,
During the 1st World War, I was an American symbol can’t you see.
Sgt. Stubby was the most decorated war dog and this is no lie.
I even lived with the little Rascles once upon a time,
I’ve lived with the brightest man ever known,
Thomas Edison he created the light bulb,
Now that I’ve given you some history about my kind,
Let me get back to what’s been on my mind.
I feel for people, who have been attacked,
But you can't put all the blame on my back. 
For I'm a creature put on God's great earth,
No knowledge of love or hate before my birth.
Why do you blame us all for a few bad ones? 
Do you hate your children because of a few bad sons?
One day I hope you’ll realize,
For it’s you that has hate in your eyes.
It’s not up to you to wipe out a breed,
For only God has the power to do that deed.
So just remember as I run along,
It’s not my breed, but your perception that’s all wrong.


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## lee hanson

APBTs in History
Pit bulls were once a sign of dignity and strength to the United States and for the people therein. The never-quit attitude that they held was a statement towards the United States. They were once posted in advertisements, on magazines, and in movies. 

Today, people fear the breed. They fear the myths surrounding the breed. They fear the bad reputation surrounding the breed.

They were once, highly dignified and loved.


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## lee hanson

Famous Pit Bulls
Popsicle is the number one US customs dog. She was found in a freezer during a drug raid by Buffalo police in 1997. They found Popsicle as a 5 month old puppy, who quickly became a favorite. He graduated his training at the Canine Enforcement Training Center in Front Royal, Virginia, and went to work with his handler, J.J., in Texas.

RCA is a certified hearing dog in Alaska

Tahoe, Cheyenne, and Dakota are all search and rescue dogs in Sacramento, California. The three pit bulls worked none stop at the World Trade Center and Pentagon after 9/11.

Bud was the first dog to travel cross country in 1903.

Sergeant Stubby died on March 16, 1926, as a hero, yet today, many people do not know who he is. Sergeant Stubby is the most decorated dog in military history, and the only dog to have been promoted during battle. He fought for 18 months in the trenches for France during WW1 for 17 battles. Stubby warned his fellow soldiers of gas attacks, located wounded soldiers in No Man's Land, and listened for oncoming artillery rounds. He was also responsible for the capture of a German spy at Argonne. After his time in the war, Stubby met Woodrow Wilson, Calvin Coolidge, and Warren G. Harding. He was, also, made a life member of the American Legion, the Red Cross, and the YMCA.

Jack Brutus was another famous military dog. Although, he did not get nearly the publicity as Stubby, Jack Brutus was the the official mascot of Company K, First Connecticut Volunteer Infantry. He was much larger than Stubby and was never smuggled anywhere with his troops (as Stubby had been). Jack Brutus died in 1898 of spinal troubles and constipation. He was much larger than the famous Sergeant Stubby but was definitely a pit bull type dog


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## lee hanson

Pit bulls have come across the big screen as well as printed material with a BAM...

•Petey from The Little Rascals 
•Tige- Buster Brown Shoe advertisements 
•Life magazine- Many people don't realize the the American pit bull terrier is the only breed that has been on the cover of Times for three issues. 
•Poster image for the U.S. during the 1900's. The American pit bull was the image people saw on various war posters, representing the country's strength and dignity


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## lee hanson

like it or not these dogs roots run deep in  are history. i know i cant change some of your mines . i do hope you see that not all of them are bad and not all the people thathave them are bad


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## lee hanson

i just found this today
It’s National Dog Bite Prevention Week and the U.S. Postal Service wants to educate people on the dangers of attacks and how to prevent them.

Man’s best friend bites more than 4.7 million people — including about 3,000 mail carriers — each year in the United States. More than 800,000 need medical attention for the bites, half of them small children. The elderly and mail carriers are the second and third most reported victims.

that's a lot of dogs bites pit bulls didn't do them. all wonder why we only see a few on the news a year and they are pit bull.4.7 million and they only choose to show the pit bulls why


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## coggins

Never had any problems with a pit until the unlimited number of posts shoving them down everyone's throat.  Lee, ease up bud, nobody's really trying that hard to gun you down.  But these post are getting kinda tired. Just relax a little man.


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## lee hanson

coggins said:


> Never had any problems with a pit until the unlimited number of posts shoving them down everyone's throat.  Lee, ease up bud, nobody's really trying that hard to gun you down.  But these post are getting kinda tired. Just relax a little man.



the last post i made be for last night was a week ago on the 13th some else posted i  just responded


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## lee hanson

if you look back over these post i  stopped posting about  pit bull i went to other areas on this form because some of you say you are tired of hearing it.some of you came on my other post that had nothing to do with dogs at all and started after i stopped posting to show you respected but some of yall dont seem to have the same southern up bringing so i will just pray for yall a continue to post about the good thing my breed does if you dont want to read it dont open the post it not like am knocking on your door thank you a god bless yall


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## plottman25

K9SAR said:


> No.  German Shepherds are not "bred to attack people."  It's not "in their blood."  They are _trained_ to apprehend individuals.
> 
> If ANY dog randomly _attacks_ people (not to be confused with being trained to perform a particular task such as apprehension,) it should be euthanized.  Human Aggression (true Human Aggression...not resource guarding, etc.) should not be tolerated.
> 
> I never once said I didn't like pit bulls.  If you note in my avatar, I OWN a pit bull.  HOWEVER, Dog Aggression is just one of the many traits associated with any bully breed dogs.  An owner should be prepared for this, and most responsible bully breed owners understand this.
> 
> My Gidget says she is in a pit bull-friendly house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dog Aggression is a world of its own as compared to Human Aggression.


Exactly.


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## lee hanson

plottman25 said:


> Exactly.





lee hanson said:


> Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.
> 
> Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.
> 
> The action in Alabama was brought by the Washington Animal Foundation (WAF) against the city of Huntsville, which had claimed that American Pit BullTerriers were genetically dangerous.
> 
> The case centered on four pit bulls held in an animal shelter and adopted by three local women. The dogs were survivors of a group of over 50 pit bulls seized in a raid on a dog-fighting ring in April 2000. Half of the dogs died from injuries or disease, whilst the remainder including four puppies - were held at the City pound and put up for adoption.
> 
> Sheila Tack, an emergency room nurse at Crestwood Hospital, adopted two of the puppies that she named Justice and Elizabeth. Whilst they remained impounded, she visited them twice a week.
> 
> The other puppies, David and Nellie, were adopted by Kay Nagel, a military officers wife and resident of Redstone Arsenal, and Loyce Fisher, a civil service worker from Cullman.
> 
> However, the City Council refused to release the dogs, stating that they were a potential danger to human beings, although none had apparently displayed any aggression. The matter was referred to court for a legal decision on the dogs' fate. During a hearing last year, lawyers representing the city, Michael Fees and Greg Burgess, told Madison County Circuit Judge Joe Battle the animals were vicious and should not be re-homed.
> 
> The women, who did not have a lawyer, argued the animals were never trained to fight and conditioning can suppress any vicious tendencies the dogs might have.
> 
> Judge Battle agreed and on Nov 13 2001, declared the four young pit bulls were not dangerous because they were never trained to fight. The court allowed the city to destroy 21 adult pit bulls which had been used for fighting.
> 
> However, the City appealed Battle's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court and asked the court for an order preventing the women from taking custody of the dogs. At this point, Seattle-based WAF became involved in the case and appointed Huntsville lawyer Mike Seibert to fight their case, based on evidence they gathered to counter the City lawyers claims that all Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous.
> 
> The foundation hired veterinarian Dr. Alan Jones of Hazel Green to examine the dogs. But the officers at the shelter do not allow anyone to have physical contact with the pit bulls, even vet Jones.
> 
> "They looked fat and happy," he said. "They seemed starved for attention and not aggressive at all"
> 
> Glen Bui, spokesman for WAF told a local newspaper that the dogs should be released.
> 
> "I believe that the City of Huntsville is wasting thousands of taxpayers' dollars attempting to destroy innocent dogs that were already given by the circuit court to the three women,' he said.
> 
> WAF filed an Amicus (third party) submitting genetic proof that Pit Bulls are not dangerous.
> 
> The city of Huntsville were backed by the extremist animal rights organization PETA that Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous, with evidence provided by veterinarians, none of whom was an expert in any specific canine or genetic field.
> 
> WAF cited case laws under Due Process of the law, and stated that it was unconstitutional to rule a specific breed of dog as dangerous in this way. They also claimed it was genocide to try to eradicate the pit bull breed.
> 
> WAF submitted evidence to the Supreme Court that they were able to provide:
> 
> 1. Identification of expert treatises regarding the genetics of the breed in question
> 
> 2. Testing and studies regarding genetics verses environment as the catalyst for a specific dog breed's aggression
> 
> 3. Social contributions made by the American Pit Bull Terrier (i.e. as Assistance Dogs, Search and Rescue Dogs etc.)
> 
> 4. The associations brief assisted the court as it had substantial knowledge concerning the issue before the court
> 
> 5.The briefs filed by the City were insufficient to adequately address the far reaching issues involving genetic breed bias
> 
> 6. The Foundation read all briefs and believed that innocent pet owners and innocent pets were not represented by either brief.
> 
> WAF co-founder Glen Bui told OUR DOGS this week: "The court granted WAF's petition and allowed us seven days to file amicus curiae (disinterested adviser). Myself along with Attorney Mike Seibert worked on the amicus long hours into the night, while WAF members Kay Nagel and Sheila Tack proofread and added input. It was finished with less than one hour before the deadline to file and Sheila raced to the US post office and sent it certified mail.
> 
> "Huntsville's entire case rested on affidavits from veterinarians claiming they examined the four pit bull pups and that they would pose a danger to the community because pit bulls are genetically dangerous. They also claimed the women had no legal right to adopt the pups, this was also addressed in the amicus brief."
> 
> On Friday, August 30, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in WAFs favour and ordered that the dogs should be released for adoption, accepting the evidence but forward by WAF that no breed of dog is genetically dangerous. "This is fantastic news," said Bui. "The city could appeal against the ruling, but Id like to think theyll give way and release the dogs to their new owners so that they can enjoy a good life. Two of them will be trained as Search and Rescue Dogs; the other two will become pets. The pit bulls have been evaluated and temperament tested before they are released, they are being spayed and neutered. The city did tell the media that the dogs would be released, so lets hope they keep their word."
> 
> Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.
> 
> "We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.
> 
> "This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."



am not sure why you would bring this back up it has been almost a month since i have posted on this matter.


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## Nicodemus

lee hanson said:


> am not sure why you would bring this back up it has been almost a month since i have posted on this matter.



Would you like for me to lock this thread down for you? It will be my pleasure.


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## lee hanson

i thought  every one pretty much agreed to diss agree


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08

I thought they were going to make it illegal to own pitbulls in atlanta, but I guess they got by this time.  Its just a matter of time before they are illegal to own in America


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## coggins

Nicodemus said:


> Would you like for me to lock this thread down for you? It will be my pleasure.



That may be the best course of action at this point........................I mean really, this horse is beyond dead!!!


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