# rattlesnake endangered species



## trial&error (Mar 23, 2013)

From gfc commision email.

Diamondback Rattlesnake Sightings
The National Council for Stream and Air Improvement is seeking documentation of diamondback rattlesnake sightings. The US Fish and Wildlife Service is considering listing the species as threatened or endangered, but little documentation exists on actual population distribution. Landowners, resource managers and concerned citizens are encouraged to report any sightings via their on-line reporting system.
http://www.ncasi.org/snakesurvey.aspx?utm_source=FINAL+eUpdate+March+2013&utm_campaign=NoveUpdate&utm_medium=email


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## trial&error (Mar 24, 2013)

wow all day and not a comment, I was expecting a yeah we're getting them or a plenty around my house.


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## Nicodemus (Mar 24, 2013)

I saw that on the local news down here a while back. I see less and less diamondbacks every year. And more canebrakes.


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## ghost8026 (Mar 25, 2013)

I agree with ya on the canebrakes.bout 5 year ago I was seein more diamondbacks but only one this past year.I think that human development and logging is the culprit on seein less.that's jus my opinion no proof of that. I just hope they don't put it on the endangered list


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## bowhuntonly (Mar 25, 2013)

I have only seen one diamondback in my life...36 years, and that was last year on the dirt road I live on. He got a free pass as all snakes I see do. I see at least ten canebrakes every year it seems.


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## elfiii (Mar 25, 2013)

trial&error said:


> The US Fish and Wildlife Service is considering listing the species as threatened or endangered, but little documentation exists on actual population distribution.



That sounds about par for the course.


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## HillbillyJim (Mar 25, 2013)

They are only endangered if I see them before they see me.


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## swamp hunter (Mar 25, 2013)

I see maybe one or two a Year at my N. Fla Camp.
Maybe 1 every 5 Years down here in the High Water Zone.
Beautiful Snake . They all get Admired and a wish you well pass.


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## MudDucker (Mar 26, 2013)

Typical government response ... no data, must be no snakes.  I've got a friend who is seeing way more and has had several dogs bitten.  On my property, I am seeing way more gopher holes with tracks that are not from gophers going in and out.  With the drought we were having, there was less water to run them out of their dens until their nightly feeding forays.


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## Vernon Holt (Mar 26, 2013)

May as well face the facts.  Coyotes are primarily responsible for any decline in the population of the Eastern Diamondback.

Why would this not be the case?  The diet for both creatures is composed primarily of small mammals, with rats, mice, rabbits, and squirrels heading the list of proferred foods.

With the expanding growth in yote numbers over the past 20-30 years, why would it not take its toll on the quality of Diamondback Habitat?  The yote is an aggressive hunter who forages over a much greater home range than could be expected of a Diamondback who simply must lie in waiting for some hopeless cottontail to come hopping by where he has been waiting for hours.

So with the advent of the Coyote, with him feeding on the same resource as the Diamondback, the outlook for the Diamondback has become more bleak.  The Coyote has the alternative of turning to fawns, pigs, and even adult deer when his preferred food is scarce.  

The Diamondback has very limited alternatives.  He can change his home range, but is likely to find the cupboard is still bare because of the yote factor.

With it taking 30 years for Wildlife Biologists to finally admit that the yote is a serious predator of the Whitetail, one would have to wonder how long it will take them to admit that the chief factor in the decline of the Diamondback is the competition from the yote??


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## Resica (Mar 26, 2013)

Vernon Holt said:


> May as well face the facts.  Coyotes are primarily responsible for any decline in the population of the Eastern Diamondback.
> 
> Why would this not be the case?  The diet for both creatures is composed primarily of small mammals, with rats, mice, rabbits, and squirrels heading the list of proferred foods.
> 
> ...



Shouldn't the same be the case for the Timber Rattlesnake?  What about the human factor? How long can  people  blast away without restriction and have no repercussions with the population?


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## humdandy (Mar 26, 2013)

Vernon Holt said:


> May as well face the facts.  Coyotes are primarily responsible for any decline in the population of the Eastern Diamondback.
> 
> Why would this not be the case?  The diet for both creatures is composed primarily of small mammals, with rats, mice, rabbits, and squirrels heading the list of proferred foods.
> 
> ...



I used to see LOTS of snakes, then gradually I saw less until last year, that was until last year!  It was a banner year for rattlesnakes!  I don't remember the exact number, but I saw at least 8 ranging from 4 ft to 5+ feet.  Got two road kills in the freezer and gave away a third roadkill that was 6ft.

Almost all the ones I saw where late summer early fall.

Here are a few from last year.  First one was hit by a car, not sure he made it.  The other two are alive, one was about 4 ft. and the other was pushing 6 ft.


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## Vernon Holt (Mar 26, 2013)

Resica said:


> *Shouldn't the same be the case for the Timber Rattlesnake? *
> 
> Likely so, but my thoughts went to the Eastern Diamondback since the referenced Survey is for this snake.
> 
> *What about the human factor? *


 
Obviously, the mortality from human activity fits into the scheme of things, but in no way does it compare to the degrading of the habitat. Even Diamonbacks have to eat to survive. 

They are competiting with coyotes, bobcats, foxes (red and gray), hawks and owls. With their being the least aggressive of the predators, they are the most likely to miss a meal.


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## ejm (May 24, 2013)

Don't forget a expanding hog population, particularly in the diamondback's range. I'm sure most know what happens when hogs come across a snake. Bad day for the snake.


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## NCHillbilly (May 24, 2013)

Eastern diamondbacks (and coral snakes) are already a protected species in NC. They both only live in a small part of the Sandhills and Coastal Plain, so there probably never were a lot of them in the state anyway.


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## southernboy2147 (May 27, 2013)

ejm said:


> Don't forget a expanding hog population, particularly in the diamondback's range. I'm sure most know what happens when hogs come across a snake. Bad day for the snake.



i have heard that hogs will kill a rattlesnake... not sure about this because we dont hogs in our area besides the random sighting every once in a blue moon...

ive also heard rumors that rattle snakes have almost stopped rattling when approached because there learning that its giving there position off to hogs... idk how much truth is in that


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## NCHillbilly (May 27, 2013)

Deer will also kill snakes.


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## albridges (May 27, 2013)

I have only seen one diamondback and I am 34 years old. I cannot count the Timbers that have seen. My father killed a diamondback a month ago in his front yard. My nieces and nephews play in the yard year round so all venomous snakes get a lead diet. All non-venomous snakes get a pass. 

I do not believe that the coyote is as destructive to our ecosystem as everyone states but I am sure they do have an impact. I believe that we humans have far more of an impact on the ecosystem. 

If diamondbacks do get put on the endangered list then I will let them live. In the yard around family and friends they will be moved in a slightly more prejudiced manor.


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## cpowel10 (May 28, 2013)

albridges said:


> I have only seen one diamondback and I am 34 years old. I cannot count the Timbers that have seen. My father killed a diamondback a month ago in his front yard. My nieces and nephews play in the yard year round so all venomous snakes get a lead diet. All non-venomous snakes get a pass.
> 
> I do not believe that the coyote is as destructive to our ecosystem as everyone states but I am sure they do have an impact. I believe that we humans have far more of an impact on the ecosystem.
> 
> If diamondbacks do get put on the endangered list then I will let them live. In the yard around family and friends they will be moved in a slightly more prejudiced manor.



I'm in Worth County (north side close to Crisp) and I've seen very few timbers, 99% of the rattlesnakes I see are diamondbacks. I usually see about a dozen a year. 

The terrain is sandy with a lot of gopher tortoises. It seems like any where there's a lot of gophers there's a lot of diamondbacks. 

It's weird we live so close to each other and have totally different snake sitings.


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## Vernon Holt (May 28, 2013)

*Rattlesnake Endangered?*



Resica said:


> _Shouldn't the same be the case for the Timber Rattlesnake?
> 
> It is almost a certainty that the same trend is affecting the Timber Rattler, since both snakes rely upon the same food source as does the Coyote.
> 
> ...


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## Bucky T (May 28, 2013)

I ran across this EDB on my club in Screven C. turkey hunting this season.

A natural death.    I guess the bulge in his/her belly didn't agree with it????  The snake was close to 5ft in length.

It was fairly fresh, but starting to get ripe, so I didn't investigate any further.

I've never seen a Canebreak on this piece of dirt.  Only EDB's.


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## Nicodemus (May 28, 2013)

Bucky T said:


> I ran across this EDB on my club in Screven C. turkey hunting this season.
> 
> A natural death.    I guess the bulge in his/her belly didn't agree with it????  The snake was close to 5ft in length.
> 
> ...





That is strange. I wonder what happened to her?


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## elfiii (May 28, 2013)

albridges said:


> I do not believe that the coyote is as destructive to our ecosystem as everyone states but I am sure they do have an impact. I believe that we humans have far more of an impact on the ecosystem.



I would disagree on these points. I suspect coyotes are more destructive than they are given credit for. They are a living, breathing dispos-all. Very few animals in the woods are safe from them. They are prolific and out compete the other predators.


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## Ridge Walker (May 28, 2013)

elfiii said:


> I would disagree on these points. I suspect coyotes are more destructive than they are given credit for. They are a living, breathing dispos-all. Very few animals in the woods are safe from them. They are prolific and out compete the other predators.



Coyotes may be prolific, efficient, predators...but it's no comparison to the impact humans have on the ecosystem through development, agriculture and farming.

RW


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## speedcop (May 28, 2013)

elfiii said:


> I would disagree on these points. I suspect coyotes are more destructive than they are given credit for. They are a living, breathing dispos-all. Very few animals in the woods are safe from them. They are prolific and out compete the other predators.



You are correct again grasshopper! The yotes completely wiped out our rabbit population here several years ago. Very common to see 10-15 in your yard at night. Yotes got real populated here and all you could find was coyote furwrapped scat. They have now about wiped out the yotes and the rabbits are comming back.


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## Bucky T (May 28, 2013)

Ridge Walker said:


> Coyotes may be prolific, efficient, predators...but it's no comparison to the impact humans have on the ecosystem through development, agriculture and farming.
> 
> RW



This.  We use to have Red Wolves and Eastern Cougers as top native predators here.

Now we have "us" and coyotes have moved in filling the void left by the predators not here anymore...

I still believe the current limits the state has set for deer has done what it was designed to do, reduce the deer population.., and coyotes are an easy scapegoat.

One thing I have noticed about coyotes are the fox populations seem to be lower.  Maybe some avid trappers can elaborate more on that.


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## Millcreekfarms (May 31, 2013)

Coyotes were released in Ga by the Dnr they didnt migrate here naturally no mater what they say ive seen the ear tags my trapper friend took out of their ears years ago


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## Bucky T (May 31, 2013)

elfiii said:


> I would disagree on these points. I suspect coyotes are more destructive than they are given credit for. They are a living, breathing dispos-all. Very few animals in the woods are safe from them. They are prolific and out compete the other predators.



Humans are the reason coyotes are here in the first place.

Humans are the root cause for every species that is in decline right now.

Take away deer season and vehicles and see what happens to the deer population.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as blunt, but putting all the blame on coyotes which have come here and filled a void left by predators who have been wiped out by...you guessed it humans, seems a little shallow.

Yes, coyotes are opportunistic hunters, and very cunning predators.  I shoot them while hunting deer, and I actually go out and hunt them specifically.

If y'all don't like them, go out and hunt them!!  Right now is a really good time to do it.  Since they're out decimating the deer population right now..  LOL!!  Sorry I had too...

Here's one I called up with a cottontail mouth call in Illinois last December.

Everything above is my .02


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## Vernon Holt (May 31, 2013)

*Diamondback Decline*

_


bucky t said:



			humans are the reason coyotes are here in the first place.
		
Click to expand...

_


bucky t said:


> you have no sound basis for making such a broad statement as to why we have coyotes.  The reasonable consensus is that the wily, adaptable critter has done the natural thing.  He has sought greener pastures and has moved slowly eastward from his native range.  Over a period of likely fifty years, he has reached the entire eastern limits of this country.  His migration was gradual and simultaneous from north to south.  I have heard all of the stories of how wildlife agencies and/or fox hunters have made releases of coyotes for various purposes.  Even if this were true, this could not account for the eastern us being saturated with the critters.
> 
> "_take away deer season and vehicles and see what happens to the deer population". _
> 
> ...


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## harryrichdawg (May 31, 2013)

HillbillyJim said:


> They are only endangered if I see them before they see me.



Yep.  No venomous snake gets a free pass from me if I have a weapon and opportunity to make the kill without getting bitten.


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## flyfisher76544 (Jun 1, 2013)

Bucky T said:


> Take away deer season and vehicles and see what happens to the deer population.



Over population? Disease? Starvation? Take your pick, personally I would not want to see this with any critter. Oh and your comment about them decimating the population.....found 4 fawn kills in the last 3 weeks and all of them were coyotes.


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