# Does Aaron Judge Finally Beat The Babes HR Record?



## treemanjohn (Aug 14, 2022)

He hit #46 last night and has another 40 games to get 15 more. He's on path to shatter it


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## DannyW (Aug 14, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> He hit #46 last night and has another 40 games to get 15 more. He's on path to shatter it



If I am not mistaken, he is in his walk year, and every time he hits one I hear "ching-ching".

I hope he gets to 60 at least. I saw where he is only 2 off the pace that Barry Bonds set when he stole the HR record.


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## johnnyk2000 (Aug 14, 2022)

I think he will crush it. My fan dual pick will appreciate it too


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## treemanjohn (Aug 14, 2022)

DannyW said:


> If I am not mistaken, he is in his walk year, and every time he hits one I hear "ching-ching".
> 
> I hope he gets to 60 at least. I saw where he is only 2 off the pace that Barry Bonds set when he stole the HR record.


Bonds didn't steal anything. He's the best player in baseball history. Steroids have been in baseball over 100 years. Go fast pills almost as long. All if our "heros" were dopers

Judge is in the zone now. Hopefully it doesn't change when the press starts applying pressure


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 14, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Bonds didn't steal anything. He's the best player in baseball history. Steroids have been in baseball over 100 years. Go fast pills almost as long. All if our "heros" were dopers
> 
> Judge is in the zone now. Hopefully it doesn't change when the press starts applying pressure


So do you think Hank Aaron was a steroid user or a doper?   Honest question.    And I realize that you or I couldn't possibly know the correct answer.  My thought is..... No,  he was just a great hitter.


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 14, 2022)

And BTW.... What's the difference in steroids and go fast pills?   Go fast as in run fast or go fast as in speed/amphetamines?


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## DannyW (Aug 14, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Bonds didn't steal anything. He's the best player in baseball history. Steroids have been in baseball over 100 years. Go fast pills almost as long. All if our "heros" were dopers
> 
> Judge is in the zone now. Hopefully it doesn't change when the press starts applying pressure



Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that one. At least you are admitting he did performance enhancing drugs, I'll give you credit for that.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Aug 14, 2022)

Reckon if he stays healthy, does not do anything to disqualify himself, & avoid significant hitting slumps, etc., then his chances are looking good.


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## ATLFalconsfan80 (Aug 14, 2022)

Honest question here…could Babe or Hank hit these pitchers in todays game…averaging high 90s with nasty cuts to the pitch?

The reason I ask is cause I believe Jordan would average 50+in todays nba…was the play better back in the day or better now


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## DannyW (Aug 14, 2022)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Reckon if he stays healthy, does not do anything to disqualify himself, & avoid significant hitting slumps, etc., then his chances are looking good.



We use this word often, but he is really a "freak". A six foot 7" 280 lb guy who steals 10 bases a year! His only block to the HOF may be his relatively late start in MLB.

I remember him standing next to Freddie at 1st base. Freddie, at 6'5" and 220 lbs was dwarfed!


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## treemanjohn (Aug 14, 2022)

mizzippi jb said:


> So do you think Hank Aaron was a steroid user or a doper?   Honest question.    And I realize that you or I couldn't possibly know the correct answer.  My thought is..... No,  he was just a great hitter.


I have no idea if he used steroids. The first admitted use was in the 1800s. Babe was also "supposedly" dabbling with testosterone.


mizzippi jb said:


> And BTW.... What's the difference in steroids and go fast pills?   Go fast as in run fast or go fast as in speed/amphetamines?


Speed. It's a game changer when playing baseball. The amount of focus it gives is off the charts. Playing 150+ games in the summer wears players down. It's a definite edge


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## treemanjohn (Aug 14, 2022)

DannyW said:


> Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that one. At least you are admitting he did performance enhancing drugs, I'll give you credit for that.


He tested positive along with 75% of all players. Steroids have been involved in all athletics for a very very long time. They don't help you with hitting a baseball. They help you stay healthy and recover more quickly


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## treemanjohn (Aug 14, 2022)

ATLFalconsfan80 said:


> Honest question here…could Babe or Hank hit these pitchers in todays game…averaging high 90s with nasty cuts to the pitch?
> 
> The reason I ask is cause I believe Jordan would average 50+in todays nba…was the play better back in the day or better now


The best athletes will always be the best regardless of what era they're playing in. Jordan was a monster, period. He had every intangible.

There were a lot of pitchers that threw high 90s and 100 back in the day. The radar was clocking at the plate then and on release now


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Aug 15, 2022)

DannyW said:


> We use this word often, but he is really a "freak". A six foot 7" 280 lb guy who steals 10 bases a year! His only block to the HOF may be his relatively late start in MLB.
> 
> I remember him standing next to Freddie at 1st base. Freddie, at 6'5" and 220 lbs was dwarfed!



I remember Freeman at a previous all-star game commenting on how big Judge is, especially when standing next to him.


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 15, 2022)

As far as steroids go..... You ain't gonna stay in the game and stay on top into your 40s without em,  so yeah.... They contribute to players hitting more home runs.  Also faster recovery for injuries so yes,  steroids produce more home runs in the grand scheme of things.


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## treemanjohn (Aug 15, 2022)

mizzippi jb said:


> As far as steroids go..... You ain't gonna stay in the game and stay on top into your 40s without em,  so yeah.... They contribute to players hitting more home runs.  Also faster recovery for injuries so yes,  steroids produce more home runs in the grand scheme of things.


There was an old saying for outsiders. Never drink a cup of coffee in a MLB clubhouse because you'll be up for 2 days. It wasn't the caffeine. 

Now the majority of MLB baseball players have ADHD and eat Adderall


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## mguthrie (Aug 15, 2022)

Juice is juice. There’s many different kinds.


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 15, 2022)

mguthrie said:


> Juice is juice. There’s many different kinds.


I had a buddy on our HS football team who went and got into some poison ivy intentionally so he could get some "steroids" ?


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## MudDucker (Aug 16, 2022)

The only juice the Babe used was booze, wild women and cigarettes!


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## James12 (Aug 18, 2022)

Roids  

Stronger, Energy, Recovery Time - maybe more focus pending the actual steroid. Which yes could help with hitting.  No doubt Bonds was one of the greatest (hand/eye) hitters of all time.  But also no doubt the Babe and Aaron’s of the world didn’t have the physical support and advancements through technology when they played.  Imagine the Babe with no cigs, less pasta and with today’s Keto plans ?.


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Aug 18, 2022)

Y'all forget a guy named Maris ?


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## biggdogg (Aug 18, 2022)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> I remember Freeman at a previous all-star game commenting on how big Judge is, especially when standing next to him.



There is a picture of Judge at second standing next to Jose Altuve. Definitely puts his size in perspective.

He has a great shot at 60-65 homers IF he stays healthy. Which he does not have a very good track record of...


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## ATLFalconsfan80 (Aug 19, 2022)

biggdogg said:


> There is a picture of Judge at second standing next to Jose Altuve. Definitely puts his size in perspective.
> 
> He has a great shot at 60-65 homers IF he stays healthy. Which he does not have a very good track record of...


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## ATLFalconsfan80 (Aug 19, 2022)

We all know shaq was huge but standing next to Judge…really puts in in perspective..I’ll find the pic of The Rock with Charles Barkley and Shaq


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## ATLFalconsfan80 (Aug 19, 2022)

Here it is…


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## jiminbogart (Aug 19, 2022)

The roids diffidently helped Bonds with more than just recovery. His mass gain and strength took him to the next level. 

I say let them use what they wanna use. I want max entertainment.



Rookie card:


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Aug 20, 2022)

When talking about artificially inflated numbers you do have to look at the short right field fence at Yankee Stadium . As one writer put it " Instead of house Ruth built it was the house built for Ruth" .  I read somewhere a lot of Maris's home runs barely cleared the fence and would have been outs in any other park .


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> The roids diffidently helped Bonds with more than just recovery. His mass gain and strength took him to the next level.
> 
> I say let them use what they wanna use. I want max entertainment.
> 
> ...


Has nothing to do with hitting home runs


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Lindseys Grandpa said:


> When talking about artificially inflated numbers you do have to look at the short right field fence at Yankee Stadium . As one writer put it " Instead of house Ruth built it was the house built for Ruth" .  I read somewhere a lot of Maris's home runs barely cleared the fence and would have been outs in any other park .


There's a lot of manipulation in baseball


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## jiminbogart (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Has nothing to do with hitting home runs




If you don't think size, strength and bat speed don't contribute to home runs, you've never hit a baseball.

When I was taking steroids in the 80's it had a massive change on how hard and how far I hit the ball.


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> If you don't think size, strength and bat speed don't contribute to home runs, you've never hit a baseball.
> 
> When I was taking steroids in the 80's it had a massive change on how hard and how far I hit the ball.


I've literally hit maybe a million balls. It's all about launch angle. It's just physics. If muscle mass did it everyone in baseball would be a hulk. Bonds had skills that no one in the history of baseball had. Juice helped him play more games


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## Duff (Aug 20, 2022)

Dude


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Has nothing to do with hitting home runs



Sure it does. The player is stronger. If that makes baseball travel 5-10% farther you will hit more home runs. Those warning track shots will become HRs.

For the record, I don’t care that he did steroids. A lot of players did/do steroids and amphetamines..


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> Sure it does. The player is stronger. If that makes baseball travel 5-10% farther you will hit more home runs. Those warning track shots will become HRs.
> 
> For the record, I don’t care that he did steroids. A lot of players did/do steroids and amphetamines..


What effect does strength or muscle mass add to the batted ball?

Agreed they all "cheated" which really isn't cheating


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> What effect does strength or muscle mass add to the batted ball?



So, let’s say you ‘just miss’ center cutting one. And it goes 10% farther bc you’re stronger. That turns a 380 ft fly ball into a 408 ft ‘shot’..


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

They don’t shoot test or winstrol anymore..

They take sarms, alter HGH, and/or adderall. Ask Lance Armstrong


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> So, let’s say you ‘just miss’ center cutting one. And it goes 10% farther bc you’re stronger. That turns a 380 ft fly ball into a 408 ft ‘shot’..


How exactly do you power a ball? The ball doesn't know how strong you are


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> How exactly do you power a ball?



What? 

If you don’t understand that being stronger helps you hit a ball farther. Then this is dead in the water…


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> How exactly do you power a ball? The ball doesn't know how strong you are



I didn’t say anything about anyone ‘powering a ball’..


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> What?
> 
> If you don’t understand that being stronger helps you hit a ball farther. Then this is dead in the water…


I understand baseball and the mechanics of hitting far more than the majority of people. That's why Im asking you or anyone else. You cant power through a baseball. It just doesn't happen


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## jiminbogart (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> What effect does strength or muscle mass add to the batted ball?



Go get a box of nails.

Get a hammer.

Drive a nail.

Add 40 pounds of muscle, increase your speed, strength and stamina (the 3 S's). 

Drive a nail.

It's much easier to drive that nail when you are bigger, faster and stronger. You can even use a heavier hammer. 

Those 20 balls you hit to the warning track now go over the fence since you're on them roids.

I've seen many guys go from base hitters to power hitters after they got on the roids. Me and my roommate were two of them. Beer league softball, but same dynamics.


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## jiminbogart (Aug 20, 2022)

Physicist shows how steroids can fuel home runs | Reuters 



> *A 4 percent increase in ball speed, which can reasonably be expected from steroid use, can increase home run production by anywhere from 50 percent to 100 percent*,” said Tobin, whose study will be published in an upcoming issue of the American Journal of Physics.


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> Go get a box of nails.
> 
> Get a hammer.
> 
> ...


Driving a nail and hitting a ball are different. You can truly drive a nail because it doesn't leave the hammer. A baseball leaves the bat. The millisecond the ball touches the bat its gone. No more energy is transferred


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## jiminbogart (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Driving a nail and hitting a ball are different. You can truly drive a nail because it doesn't leave the hammer. A baseball leaves the bat. The millisecond the ball touches the bat its gone. No more energy is transferred




I'm just going to assume you went to Georgia public schools.


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> Physicist shows how steroids can fuel home runs | Reuters


100% speculation and propaganda Jim. "Reasonably"....


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> I'm just going to assume you went to Georgia public schools.


I'm just speaking in facts. It's a Georgia thing I guess


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> I understand baseball and the mechanics of hitting far more than the majority of people. That's why Im asking you or anyone else. You cant power through a baseball. It just doesn't happen



You’re just making weird statements like ‘powering through a ball’..

No one said that

I played baseball. At a much higher level than the majority of people. Being stronger helps you hit the ball father. I’ve seen it ?


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## jiminbogart (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> 100% speculation and propaganda Jim. "Reasonably"....




It took a while, but I finally figured out you're just trolling. At least you didn't get me in the boat.


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

jiminbogart said:


> It took a while, but I finally figured out you're just trolling. At least you didn't get me in the boat.


Not trolling . Your article is fron 2007. The height of the steroid nonsense


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> You’re just making weird statements like ‘powering through a ball’..
> 
> No one said that
> 
> I played baseball. At a much higher level than the majority of people. Being stronger helps you hit the ball father. I’ve seen it ?


Ok so a man who bench presses 250 hits that ball further than someone who presses 135?


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Ok so a man who bench presses 250 hits that ball further than someone who presses 135?



Maybe, maybe not.. I fully understand your logic. I’m just telling you it’s flawed. Take it for what it’s worth from a guy a guy who got paid to play baseball..

What I am saying is that both guys can hit it farther than they previously could have after a cycle of PEDs..


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> Maybe, maybe not.. I fully understand your logic. I’m just telling you it’s flawed. Take it for what it’s worth from a guy a guy who got paid to play baseball..
> 
> What I am saying is that both guys can hit it farther than they previously could have after a cycle of PEDs..


Willie Mays,, Frank Robinson, and Hank Aaron were very small guys. Theyre homerun leaders. Weight Lifting was voodoo in those days and nonexistent 

The logic that I use are facts. The majority of major league baseball players have a swing speed in the 70s at the sweet spot. Elite dig down crowd pleasers MAY hit the low 80s on rare occasions. The best players can barrel up on balls that others can't. They also have the eyes and reflexes to make that happen. Bonds rarely struck out and is the MLB leader in walks. That's incredible. He had more than a dozen years with over 100 walks and one year with over 200. That's superhuman even taking away intentionals. He was an assassin. The best in history. 

Bonds and a lot of others understood that bat speed is king. Eyes and decision making control the impact on the ball. That happens in hundredths of a second. Steroids can't give you that or improve on it


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Here is a perfect explanation of what exactly happens when a ball is hit. This clearly shows that strength, follow through, power through,...... Everything coaches regurgitated was wrong. It's physics. No magic, steroids, or luck needed


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Willie Mays,, Frank Robinson, and Hank Aaron were very small guys. Theyre homerun leaders. Weight Lifting was voodoo in those days and nonexistent
> 
> The logic that I use are facts. The majority of major league baseball players have a swing speed in the 70s at the sweet spot. Elite dig down crowd pleasers MAY hit the low 80s on rare occasions. The best players can barrel up on balls that others can't. They also have the eyes and reflexes to make that happen. Bonds rarely struck out and is the MLB leader in walks. That's incredible. He had more than a dozen years with over 100 walks and one year with over 200. That's superhuman even taking away intentionals. He was an assassin. The best in history.
> 
> Bonds and a lot of others understood that bat speed is king. Eyes and decision making control the impact on the ball. That happens in hundredths of a second. Steroids can't give you that or improve on it



I don’t ever recall bashing BB on his strikeout to K ratio. Or at all..

I’m saying that if you hit a ball ‘x’ amount of KE that said ‘x’ will absolutely be increased by taking PEDs. That will alter launch angle, total distance, ‘powering through a ball’ or whatever else you want to dream up. The faster you swing the bat,  the harder you hit the ball, the farther it goes.. 

End of story..


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> I don’t ever recall bashing BB on his strikeout to K ratio. Or at all..
> 
> I’m saying that if you hit a ball ‘x’ amount of KE that said ‘x’ will absolutely be increased by taking PEDs. That will alter launch angle, total distance, ‘powering through a ball’ or whatever else you want to dream up. The faster you swing the bat,  the harder you hit the ball, the farther it goes..
> 
> End of story..


See the post above.

Bonds bat speed was no greater than any other elite hitter. College players and some high schoolers also have similar speeds.


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## Raylander (Aug 20, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> See the post above.
> 
> Bonds bat speed was no greater than any other elite hitter. College players and some high schoolers also have similar speeds.



See post #33 

What do you think think the difference in distance is when a guy ‘just misses’ one? And how do PEDs help him? 

Do you think being stronger from PEDs enables him to hit it 2% father? 5% farther? 10%?


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## treemanjohn (Aug 20, 2022)

Raylander said:


> See post #33
> 
> What do you think think the difference in distance is when a guy ‘just misses’ one? And how do PEDs help him?
> 
> Do you think being stronger from PEDs enables him to hit it 2% father? 5% farther? 10%?


Zero. Steroids allow players to recuperate from the day to day schedule of baseball and increase strength and muscle mass

Missing a baseball has nothing to do with strength and strength doesn't magically convert that ball into a homerun.

Elite baseball players are trained to have a consistent and repeatable swing. The speed doesn't vary as the norm. The point of whether a ball jumps over the fence, pops up, is a line drive, or a grounder to 1 is determined by the launch angle, bat speed at point of contact, and where the ball hits the bat. I wish it were more mystical, but it's just not. Baseball lore is far more fun. I've heard it all my life.


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## Raylander (Aug 21, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Zero



A lot of folks in the game would disagree..


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## treemanjohn (Aug 21, 2022)

Raylander said:


> A lot of folks in the game would disagree..


Definitely. There's a lot of disagreeing in a circular firing squad. Baseball and all sports purposely hid steroids and growth hormone for many many decades. They still hide it. It still goes on, but everyone involved is smarter about it. Athletics is a testing ground for hormone replacement therapy that you hear advertised on the radio. Pitchers took them because the hitters did and hitters took them because pitchers did.... 1000s and 1000s over decades and decades doped and there's only one Barry Bonds. He's at the top

The only reason it hit the news was because of political pressure. Rats solved the case, not law enforcement. Lots of money was paid out and lots of political showboating went on. Players still got paid which is all that matters to the PA. Steroid era players are still making money from MLB and theyre still on the field to this day without consequence. 

Vitamin T, Adderall, Ritalin, speed, HGH, steroids, stem cell..... it's all a part of athletics. It's just the way it is. It will never change. Everyone wants it. No one wants to see their "hero" leave the game early and broken down after a short career


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## treemanjohn (Aug 21, 2022)

and.... steroids have been tested for and banned in the NFL and college for almost 40 years. It went on in the 50s also. Funny that you rarely if ever hear of a hot test or suspension in a sport where its truly needed. Wonder how that works? Sideline tents help with torodol (among others) injections. Broke as a joke enters the tent, doc hits the player with vitamin T, and smiley guy trots back into the game. He got dosed


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## antharper (Aug 24, 2022)

He’s at 48 , I don’t think he’ll make it


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## DannyW (Aug 25, 2022)

Since I was probably the one that started the Barry Bonds steroid argument with my earlier comment that "he stole the record", I have followed this thread in silence. I have read every comment and tried to remain neutral and open minded. However, nothing has been said that changes my opinion.

Steroids build muscle mass. Muscle mass increases strength. Increased strength enables the use of a heavier bat. A heavier bat imparts more kinetic energy on the baseball when it is struck. More KE imparted enables the ball to travel further whether it is barreled or hit slightly off-center. Further ball travel leads to more homeruns.

In physics the formula is: KE = 1/2 Mass x velocity squared.

So in my mind, and I'm no physicist, if you can swing a heavier bat (mass), without sacrificing bat speed, it's going to result in more homeruns as it relates to hitting a baseball. Assuming all other factors remain the same (same bat, same baseball, same swing angle, same contact point, etc.)

It's just a darn shame that we are having this argument in the first place. I wonder if Barry Bonds, knowing what it cost him, would do the same way if he got a do-over?


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## Duff (Aug 25, 2022)

Who knows with Bonds, that dude seems weird to me.

Did PED's help Bonds and many many more hit HR's?, 100% and you will never convince me otherwise. Honestly, I can't even believe its being argued.
The single season homerun record was broken 7 times in 80 year span. 6 of those 7 came in a 3 year time frame. 

I didn't see Bonds play many games with SF when he first signed with them. I will never forget watching a Saturday game of the week and they were showing pre game warmups. Bonds had on a long sleeve spandex shirt and his biceps were like tree trunks. I was blown away in comparison to his lanky days in Pitt.

Now, steroids or not, what Bonds did was amazing. That guy went through a 6-7 year stretch where he might see 1 pitch to hit during a game, and he didn't miss it. I still find myself watching videos of his homeruns. The one he hit in Yankee Stadium is stupid.

What grips me more than anything is MLB knew roids were being taken by the players and reaped the benifits of it, yet now they want to punish the players and act like they did something wrong.


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## killerv (Aug 25, 2022)

You dont think players in the 60s and 70s were on stuff? I know for a fact they were. They just arent talked about. While I realize it wasnt the same steroids out today, they were still using.


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## killerv (Aug 25, 2022)

DannyW said:


> Since I was probably the one that started the Barry Bonds steroid argument with my earlier comment that "he stole the record", I have followed this thread in silence. I have read every comment and tried to remain neutral and open minded. However, nothing has been said that changes my opinion.
> 
> Steroids build muscle mass. Muscle mass increases strength. Increased strength enables the use of a heavier bat. A heavier bat imparts more kinetic energy on the baseball when it is struck. More KE imparted enables the ball to travel further whether it is barreled or hit slightly off-center. Further ball travel leads to more homeruns.
> 
> ...



He doesnt express regret, ARod however does, I love the comment he made about Tatis the other day....he is sad that these players havent learned from his mistakes.

ARod sure got paid though...


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## treemanjohn (Aug 25, 2022)

DannyW said:


> Since I was probably the one that started the Barry Bonds steroid argument with my earlier comment that "he stole the record", I have followed this thread in silence. I have read every comment and tried to remain neutral and open minded. However, nothing has been said that changes my opinion.
> 
> Steroids build muscle mass. Muscle mass increases strength. Increased strength enables the use of a heavier bat. A heavier bat imparts more kinetic energy on the baseball when it is struck. More KE imparted enables the ball to travel further whether it is barreled or hit slightly off-center. Further ball travel leads to more homeruns.
> 
> ...


No argument from me, just simply stating a different understanding from a different standpoint. Every MLB player is capable of hitting a homerun. It's not that tough. Hitting homeruns consistently is unbelievably difficult. To average 35 HRs over 20 straight years is just stupid good. Steroids does nothing to help that. Yes it allowed players to recover better and stay healthier, but turning a Judy into a 450ft bomb hitter is just silly. You still have to have the skills otherwise hundreds of hitters would have challenged Aaron and Maris. It just didn't happen. 

Mercker, Neagle, Rocker..... juiced. Their number ain't that good. Roids were a means to get a paycheck especially later in a players career. Anyone on earth would've done the same. 

Bonds bat was a very weird one. Light and it was all barrel. The grip was very thin and the knob was a counterbalance. He never swung heavy bats


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## treemanjohn (Aug 25, 2022)

Just pulled up Bonds stats. He continually improved on this SO:BB. He had the best eyes in the business. He was an animal at the plate


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## greendawg (Aug 28, 2022)

Bat speed and moment of inertia when the ball hits the bat are both affected by steroid use and the added muscle mass.  I can swing a 32 inch 20 ounce bat just as fast as a guy that 30 lbs of muscle on me.  However, make that a 34 inch 33 ounce bat and he will destroy me with bat speed.  That 33 ounce bat is much more solid that the 25 ounce one and when that baseball hits the denser bat, the ball has a much higher MOI, and will change direction with more force off that 33 ounce bat.  If you could swing a 10 ounce bat at 120 mph, when that ball hits it, it will barely go anywhere, because of the rebound effect.  If you throw 2 basketballs at the same speed and they hit each other at the same angle, they will just both bounce off and go the same distance away.  Throw a 16 lb bowling ball at the same speed as the basketball and the basketball will get knocked backwards and the bowling ball will lose very little forward momentum.  A slight improvement in swing speed for a pro can means the difference between a ball that hits the end of the bat or hits the sweet spot and is a home run.


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## Duff (Aug 28, 2022)

OBP of .609. 

That’s stupid, against the best in the world


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## treemanjohn (Aug 29, 2022)

greendawg said:


> Bat speed and moment of inertia when the ball hits the bat are both affected by steroid use and the added muscle mass.  I can swing a 32 inch 20 ounce bat just as fast as a guy that 30 lbs of muscle on me.  However, make that a 34 inch 33 ounce bat and he will destroy me with bat speed.  That 33 ounce bat is much more solid that the 25 ounce one and when that baseball hits the denser bat, the ball has a much higher MOI, and will change direction with more force off that 33 ounce bat.  If you could swing a 10 ounce bat at 120 mph, when that ball hits it, it will barely go anywhere, because of the rebound effect.  If you throw 2 basketballs at the same speed and they hit each other at the same angle, they will just both bounce off and go the same distance away.  Throw a 16 lb bowling ball at the same speed as the basketball and the basketball will get knocked backwards and the bowling ball will lose very little forward momentum.  A slight improvement in swing speed for a pro can means the difference between a ball that hits the end of the bat or hits the sweet spot and is a home run.


Then everyone would swing a heavy bat. Bat weight has nothing to do with hitting a honerun. All things being equal the weight if the bat will let the ball go further. Bonds always swung the lightest bat and was a very picky bat customer.  It had to be perfect


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## treemanjohn (Aug 29, 2022)

Duff said:


> OBP of .609.
> 
> That’s stupid, against the best in the world


Also had 232 walks and 41 strikeouts that year. Just stupider....

Toby Gwynn feasted on Greg Maddux! He owned Maddux and the numbers are world class. Mad dog didn't strike him out once in over 100 ABs and Gwynn hit something like .420 against him. Maddux says Bonds was the best hitter ever in his era even though he made Bonds seem mortal. That speaks volumes.


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## DannyW (Aug 29, 2022)

I feel like I am in the twilight zone. It's inconceivable to me that in 2022 we are even having a discussion about whether or not steroids enhance athletic performance. 

If they don't, then why are athletes from weightlifters to cyclists even taking them?


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## mizzippi jb (Aug 29, 2022)

Those homeruns..... Maybe 14 or 15 years worth vs 22 years worth. OK give him 17 or 18.   Steroids gave him the last 4 or 5 years.


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## buckpasser (Aug 30, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Then everyone would swing a heavy bat. Bat weight has nothing to do with hitting a honerun. All things being equal the weight if the bat will let the ball go further. Bonds always swung the lightest bat and was a very picky bat customer.  It had to be perfect



Maybe they can’t all effectively swing a heavier bat because they are only operating at normal human strength instead of fake roid strength?  Like others, I’ve tried to stay open minded reading through this as well. I have to say, there is literally zero chance the roids don’t produce more HRs.  If my nine year old son was to somehow supernaturally summon Bonds type batting physics, could he set the new record?  No, because lacks the strength.  The roids makes the muscles, makes the strength, makes the power, makes more balls leave the field.


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## westcobbdog (Sep 1, 2022)

I like Judge and hope he keeps it up but dont consider the cheater bonds to hold any records except for most roids in a season.


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## DannyW (Sep 1, 2022)

Judge is at 51 through 131 games, a pace of roughly a HR every 2.5 games. With 31 games left, if he keeps up this pace he will be somewhere around 63 for the season.

If he makes it past 61, that's enough for me to consider him the unofficial leader for most HR's in a season.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 5, 2022)

Judge hit hit 54th today. He has 16 games left to hit 7. Its looking pretty good.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 18, 2022)

58 and 59 hit today with 4 games left


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## huntfish (Sep 19, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> 58 and 59 hit today with 4 games left


I believe he has 8 games left.     Ruth hit 60 with 154 games.   Yankees currently at 146 games.


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## Dustin Pate (Sep 19, 2022)

I'm looking at the schedule and see 16 games left?


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 19, 2022)

What is the "Babe's" HR record?  I am confused.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 19, 2022)

huntfish said:


> I believe he has 8 games left.     Ruth hit 60 with 154 games.   Yankees currently at 146 games.


Correct I was just reading the schedule and miscalculated



jimbo4116 said:


> What is the "Babe's" HR record?  I am confused.


60 HRs in 154 games. Maris did it in 162


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## DannyW (Sep 19, 2022)

jimbo4116 said:


> What is the "Babe's" HR record?  I am confused.



I believe the Babe hit 60 HR's for the 1927 NYY in a 154-game season. That's one record. Then Roger Maris hit 61 HR's for the 1961 NYY in a 162-game season.

Both are the American league HR records.

Therefore, Judge has 8 more games to tie or break Babe Ruth's 154 game record, and 16 more games to tie or break Roger Maris 162 game record.


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## BamaGeorgialine (Sep 19, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> I've literally hit maybe a million balls. It's all about launch angle. It's just physics. If muscle mass did it everyone in baseball would be a hulk. Bonds had skills that no one in the history of baseball had. Juice helped him play more games


I haven't read all the pages of quotes in this conversation yet so maybe it's been said already. Ken Griffey Jr, in my humble opinion, was as talented as any player I've ever seen play baseball. Hitting and fielding


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## jimbo4116 (Sep 19, 2022)

DannyW said:


> I believe the Babe hit 60 HR's for the 1927 NYY in a 154-game season. That's one record. Then Roger Maris hit 61 HR's for the 1961 NYY in a 162-game season.
> 
> Both are the American league HR records.
> 
> Therefore, Judge has 8 more games to tie or break Babe Ruth's 154 game record, and 16 more games to tie or break Roger Maris 162 game record.



I thought they removed the asterisk.

I guess that makes Ty Cobb the hit leader.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 19, 2022)

BamaGeorgialine said:


> I haven't read all the pages of quotes in this conversation yet so maybe it's been said already. Ken Griffey Jr, in my humble opinion, was as talented as any player I've ever seen play baseball. Hitting and fielding


Griffey was spectacular. His biggest issue was staying healthy. He didn't play many full seasons in his whole career


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## psedna (Sep 19, 2022)

I was really young to really be aware (unlike now really old) but I believe that the year Marris set the record, that Mantle was actually leading him and got hurt.

Can you imagine playing against a team, with those two back to back in hitting order...

I am afraid a lot of younger folks, just dont realize how great Mantle was - some of his records and stats are unbelievable...  And he was hampered by injuries much of his career.

_Mantle retired prior to the 1969 season with 536 home runs, 1,676 runs scored, 1,509 RBI, 1,733 walks and a .298 batting average. He was named to 20 All-Star Games, won a Gold Glove for his play in center field in 1962 and was a part of seven Yankees teams that won the World Series. He hit a record 18 home runs in his 12 appearances in the Fall Classic._


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## huntfish (Sep 19, 2022)

psedna said:


> I was really young to really be aware (unlike now really old) but I believe that the year Marris set the record, that Mantle was actually leading him and got hurt.
> 
> Can you imagine playing against a team, with those two back to back in hitting order...
> 
> ...



This got me to look at the 1927 Yankees.   Didn't call it Murderers Row for nothing.   Heck, Ruth with 60 HRs didn't lead the team in RBIs.   Gehrig had 173 and had 4 players with over 100 RBIs.    Although the season was 154 games, the Yanks actually played 155.   Ruth played 151


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## Duff (Sep 19, 2022)

I really wish I would have got to see Mantle play


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## Deerhead (Sep 21, 2022)

Well there goes 60!

Got to see him play in Yankee stadium.  He is a beast of a man.  He hit one HR that night and crushed it.  Truly amazing!


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## elfiii (Sep 21, 2022)

Duff said:


> I really wish I would have got to see Mantle play



He was my favorite player of all time when I was a kid but that was before we got the Braves.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 21, 2022)

Deerhead said:


> Well there goes 60!
> 
> Got to see him play in Yankee stadium.  He is a beast of a man.  He hit one HR that night and crushed it.  Truly amazing!


Fully agree. Went to the All Star game in Miami a few years back. Judge hit one dead center, over the stands, over that stupid statue, and it hit the glass. Ive seen some huge homeruns before. It was a bomb


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## bilgerat (Sep 21, 2022)

I met Mr Mantel a few years before his passing, I delivered a boat to his manager at her house on lake Oconee, I Took them out on the lake and spent an hour  showing them how everything worked , He was drunk when he got on the boat and  downed about a half a bottle of bourbon ,{with diet coke} during the time we were out., He told a few profanity laced stories about his younger days, cussed out some other boaters for making him spill his drink,  then he wanted to go back to the house to use the bathroom. All in all I enjoyed meeting him and had a great time, even got  him to sign a baseball to me


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## treemanjohn (Sep 22, 2022)

bilgerat said:


> I met Mr Mantel a few years before his passing, I delivered a boat to his manager at her house on lake Oconee, I Took them out on the lake and spent an hour  showing them how everything worked , He was drunk when he got on the boat and  downed about a half a bottle of bourbon ,{with diet coke} during the time we were out., He told a few profanity laced stories about his younger days, cussed out some other boaters for making him spill his drink,  then he wanted to go back to the house to use the bathroom. All in all I enjoyed meeting him and had a great time, even got  him to sign a baseball to me


More often than not meeting our "heroes" rarely turns out as expected. Mantle was a mess


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## bilgerat (Sep 22, 2022)

wish Id met him when I was a kid in the 60s, I remember watchin him play on the tv. By the time I got to meet him He was a old, fat, drunk and fowl mouthed man. I Still was honored to be around him.


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## DannyW (Sep 22, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> More often than not meeting our "heroes" rarely turns out as expected. Mantle was a mess



Yes, read a book on him once. If true, he made Babe Ruth's lifestyle look like Sister Mary's.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 22, 2022)

Judge hit 60. Looks like he he to hit one tonight to beat Babe or tie him tomorrow


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## treemanjohn (Sep 22, 2022)

Look at the box score. The Red Sox ain't letting him break a record on their watch. 2 BBs already


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## gobbleinwoods (Sep 23, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Look at the box score. The Red Sox ain't letting him break a record on their watch. 2 BBs already
> View attachment 1178336



Were they intentional BB or just trying to hit the corners getting him to swing at bad pitches?


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## treemanjohn (Sep 23, 2022)

gobbleinwoods said:


> Were they intentional BB or just trying to hit the corners getting him to swing at bad pitches?


I didnt watch the game, but it looks like pitching around him. I just checked the box and he had 3 walks and a strikeout. Pitchers are a different breed and they love a challenge. I'll bet the K came from a mix of decent and really bad pitches


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## KS Bow Hunter (Sep 23, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> I didnt watch the game, but it looks like pitching around him. I just checked the box and he had 3 walks and a strikeout. Pitchers are a different breed and they love a challenge. I'll bet the K came from a mix of decent and really bad pitches


To me, intentional walks is far more anti-competitive than the other rules being discussed on baseball...I despise that action...if you can't pitch to someone don't take your ball and go home...IMHO


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## DannyW (Sep 23, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> I didnt watch the game, but it looks like pitching around him. I just checked the box and he had 3 walks and a strikeout. Pitchers are a different breed and they love a challenge. I'll bet the K came from a mix of decent and really bad pitches



Didn't watch the game either but according to the box score Boston only issued 1 intentional walk, and that was to Torres.


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## DannyW (Sep 23, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> To me, intentional walks is far more anti-competitive than the other rules being discussed on baseball...I despise that action...if you can't pitch to someone don't take your ball and go home...IMHO



Yes, I see your point, but how do you address it?


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## KS Bow Hunter (Sep 23, 2022)

DannyW said:


> Yes, I see your point, but how do you address it?


Oh I think that ship has sailed...the league would have to want it to change...if it were me, an intentional walk would include the guy behind also getting a walk...


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## James12 (Sep 23, 2022)

Hard to imagine how many Bonds would’ve hit had he not been walked so many times.

Judge is doing this in a contract year too, he’s having an overall top 5 statistical season of all time, I read.  He may purchase Trump Towers with his next contract.  Good for him, he bet on himself!


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## DannyW (Sep 23, 2022)

James12 said:


> Judge is doing this in a contract year too, he’s having an overall top 5 statistical season of all time, I read.  He may purchase Trump Towers with his next contract.  Good for him, he bet on himself!



Yes, he done good. My only regret is where he will end up. No one is going to offer more Brinks truck than Steve Cohen, so the Braves are going to be facing Judge about 20 times next year!

I'm guessing he signs a ~$400 million contract with the Mets.

This so-called Salary Cap is a joke. Wish it was a real Cap like the NFL.


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## elfiii (Sep 24, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> To me, intentional walks is far more anti-competitive than the other rules being discussed on baseball...I despise that action...if you can't pitch to someone don't take your ball and go home...IMHO



It happens all the time. Put the hot bat on base and pitch to the not so hot bat up next. It's part of the strategy of the game. What sucks is the designated hitter rule, pitchers not required to bat and putting a base runner on 2nd at the top of the 10th. That is not baseball. That is corporatism. Gotta get that game done in under 3 hours or the profit is gonna drop. It's why I'm just about done with what they call "baseball" these days.


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## SpotandStalk (Sep 24, 2022)

I don’t know but don’t cut away from college football games to show us. If I wanted to see it I’d be watching it lol


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## treemanjohn (Sep 24, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> To me, intentional walks is far more anti-competitive than the other rules being discussed on baseball...I despise that action...if you can't pitch to someone don't take your ball and go home...IMHO


To the contrary it's very competitive. I'm willing to give you a free baserunner in exchange for the opportunity to get a force out, double play, or bypass a batter. Your philosophy as a pitcher must me trying to get 27 outs and not focus on any single events

MLB hitters are so tuned in that it's very very difficult to get them to swing at bad pitches.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Sep 24, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> To the contrary it's very competitive. I'm willing to give you a free baserunner in exchange for the opportunity to get a force out, double play, or bypass a batter. Your philosophy as a pitcher must me trying to get 27 outs and not focus on any single events
> 
> MLB hitters are so tuned in that it's very very difficult to get them to swing at bad pitches.


Good and valid points...you are spot on...cannot disagree...

On a strategy level I completely understand it, I've even built statistical models around it in graduate school...like I said, to me, it's just not competitive to intentionally walk someone...but it's emotional to me not logical...I want to win, and I want to win by striking you out...I was that way when I started pitching at 6 years old (where I grew up we didn't have t-ball or coach pitch and since my Dad was the coach I could play at 6 vs. 7 for everyone else) and I did not like being told to intentionally walk someone.

I've never liked the walk or the DH...but that's just me...


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## KS Bow Hunter (Sep 24, 2022)

elfiii said:


> It happens all the time. Put the hot bat on base and pitch to the not so hot bat up next. It's part of the strategy of the game. What sucks is the designated hitter rule, pitchers not required to bat and putting a base runner on 2nd at the top of the 10th. That is not baseball. That is corporatism. Gotta get that game done in under 3 hours or the profit is gonna drop. It's why I'm just about done with what they call "baseball" these days.


Yes it does happen all the time...I just don't like it.  That's all and that's me.  Baseball is going to do what NASCAR did...overcomplicate the rules and alienate the fan bae...trying to make everyone the same doesn't make the sport more interesting...it makes it less interesting, to me, and apparently to many in the case of NASCAR.  People want to see other people win and do it through sheer will and physical performance...people like to see underdogs put someone in the wall and cross the finish line #1...


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## buckpasser (Sep 24, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes it does happen all the time...I just don't like it.  That's all and that's me.  Baseball is going to do what NASCAR did...overcomplicate the rules and alienate the fan bae...trying to make everyone the same doesn't make the sport more interesting...it makes it less interesting, to me, and apparently to many in the case of NASCAR.  People want to see other people win and do it through sheer will and physical performance...people like to see underdogs put someone in the wall and cross the finish line #1...




They already abandoned this fan once a while back when just about no one on any team spoke English as their first language. I’m proud to see that it looks like America again on the field. Maybe they’ll work it out. Not interesting enough to watch anymore to me. Football to baseball is crispy creme to cardboard.


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## treemanjohn (Sep 25, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> They already abandoned this fan once a while back when just about no one on any team spoke English as their first language. I’m proud to see that it looks like America again on the field. Maybe they’ll work it out. Not interesting enough to watch anymore to me. Football to baseball is crispy creme to cardboard.


Blame Americans for that. Our work ethic is in the toilet. Americans think the key to making the bigs is paying hitting, fielding, and batting coaches for their children. When MLB rosters are filled with hard working players who grew up in the streets hitting bottlecaps with broomsticks. We aren't hungry any more and they believe in the American dream


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## KS Bow Hunter (Sep 25, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> They already abandoned this fan once a while back when just about no one on any team spoke English as their first language. I’m proud to see that it looks like America again on the field. Maybe they’ll work it out. Not interesting enough to watch anymore to me. Football to baseball is crispy creme to cardboard.


I'm not mad at baseball or NASCAR, just making an observation...all sports have become more corporate, more sophisticated, it's just reality...


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## buckpasser (Sep 25, 2022)

treemanjohn said:


> Blame Americans for that. Our work ethic is in the toilet. Americans think the key to making the bigs is paying hitting, fielding, and batting coaches for their children. When MLB rosters are filled with hard working players who grew up in the streets hitting bottlecaps with broomsticks. We aren't hungry any more and they believe in the American dream



I hear you, but to me the poverty stricken nations were providing good players because while our kids were in school and/or going to work afterwards then doing homework, going to church, etc, their kids were playing stickball all day everyday. Nothing wrong with that, but I’d personally rather watch a decent playing representation of America on the field than an amazing representation of Central America.  Maybe they figured that out?  Not sure why it looks like the old days again now?


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## Deerhead (Sep 29, 2022)

Well he has tied Roger Maris' record at 61!


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## westcobbdog (Sep 29, 2022)

Deerhead said:


> Well he has tied Roger Maris' record at 61!


And seems like a very humble man. He's chasing Ruth now not Bonds. Soda did so many roids they say he favors the girls / dudes who did the movie White Chicks.


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## elfiii (Oct 3, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes it does happen all the time...I just don't like it.  That's all and that's me.  Baseball is going to do what NASCAR did...overcomplicate the rules and alienate the fan bae...trying to make everyone the same doesn't make the sport more interesting...it makes it less interesting, to me, and apparently to many in the case of NASCAR.  People want to see other people win and do it through sheer will and physical performance...people like to see underdogs put someone in the wall and cross the finish line #1...



I stuck with baseball after the American League went designated hitter and the pitcher warms the pines instead of stepping up to the plate. The National League adopting it cooked baseball's chances with me. If you play a position, you swing a bat and if it's tied after 9 innings no you don't automagically get a base runner on second. Baseball is a pure game. What is being shown on TV is not baseball. It's corporatism.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Oct 3, 2022)

elfiii said:


> I stuck with baseball after the American League went designated hitter and the pitcher warms the pines instead of stepping up to the plate. The National League adopting it cooked baseball's chances with me. If you play a position, you swing a bat and if it's tied after 9 innings no you don't automagically get a base runner on second. Baseball is a pure game. What is being shown on TV is not baseball. It's corporatism.


All those people on the payroll have to have something to do...so they sit around and think up new rules...


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## elfiii (Oct 3, 2022)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> All those people on the payroll have to have something to do...so they sit around and think up new rules...



I got a better idea. Fire those people and Play Ball!


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## KS Bow Hunter (Oct 3, 2022)

elfiii said:


> I got a better idea. Fire those people and Play Ball!


They're not my people...


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Oct 5, 2022)

Reckon Judge done it as expected along with Pujols extending their history in the record books.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...es-62nd-home-run-sets-al-single-season-record

*New York Yankees star Aaron Judge launches 62nd home run, sets AL's single-season record *

8:07 PM ET


> - The American League has a new single-season home run king.





> New York Yankees star Aaron Judge launched his 62nd home run of the season Tuesday night on the road against the Texas Rangers, breaking the AL record he shared with Roger Maris.





> Only Barry Bonds (73), Mark McGwire (70, 65) and Sammy Sosa (66, 64, 63) are ahead of Judge on MLB's single-season home run list.






https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...gger-albert-pujols-hits-703rd-career-home-run

*St. Louis Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols hits 703rd career home run *

Oct 3, 2022


> - Albert Pujols hit his 703rd career home run Monday night.





> The 42-year-old slugger connected for the St. Louis Cardinals off Pittsburgh Pirates right-hander Mitch Keller





> The drive gave Pujols 2,216 RBIs, which ranks second all time behind Hank Aaron's 2,297. Babe Ruth unofficially drove in 2,214 runs, but many were not counted because the statistic was not recognized by baseball until 1920.





> He is one of four players in major league history with 700, joining Barry Bonds (762), Aaron (755) and Ruth (714).


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