# Maybe cause for concern?



## The mtn man (Apr 10, 2016)

Ive turkey hunted these mountains of WNC pretty much all my life, I've never been much on pre season scouting because I've just always found turkeys somewhere in most areas I hunt year after year, and normally fairly quick, I'm not one of those guys that belly ache about populations, but I'm extremely concerned about my turkey hunting areas, our season opened this past Saturday, and I spend all day covering several watersheds, I really covered some serious territory, I never even found a scratch, a track, a feather, nothing. I know some of you are thinking, well they just moved a bit, but I covered thousands of acres, from down in the valley all the way to the AT. This is the first time in my life I've ever seen this. I've seen years when there weren't many, or they were in a different watershed, but this ancient turkey population, that has been hunted for generations is gone!!! I'm not looking for advice, just wondering if any of you guys that hunt in some of these high mountain areas are noticing this, I've talked with some good turkey hunters locally, they say they can't find any turkeys either. There still seems to be some in fields around the valleys, but I'm not seeing turkeys in fields like I have in the past, I normally see hundreds this time of year, cause my work has me all over the place, I'll bet I havnt seen 2 dozen this year.


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## spydermon (Apr 10, 2016)

You're not the lone ranger.  Ga is the same way and the population is down..no matter what is said..the turkeys aren't around like the used to be.
Deer are the same way as well.   

Predators, overly long seasons and generous limits all contribute for BOTH


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## Permitchaser (Apr 10, 2016)

On my daughter's farm there was turkeys their last year not a sound or feather this year. I am hunting a club I belong to and last year there were several gobblers none this year. I am going to call my friend to see if his honey hole had any


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## welderguy (Apr 10, 2016)

We are overrun with coyotes where I'm at.I'd be willing to bet the farm they are the problem.I hate those things.


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## The mtn man (Apr 10, 2016)

We've had coyotes for years, and I have noticed they seem to have disappeared too. If I was hunting a 1k acre lease and seeing this, I wouldn't be all that concerned, I have had 3 generations tell me all my life that this huge area has always had turkeys, there was no need for stocking back in the day,I stood on ridge tops that I know I can hear for miles, and nothing!! I still have a few thousand acres I can cover in that particular area, I'm gonna take off from work a couple days this week to spend in there, One area is about 4 hour walk, I might even stay the night in there as to cover more ground. If I don't find any ill hunt the other end of the county, I've never had to move out of necessity.this area has been my ace in the hole since I was old enough to drive myself there, and that's been a while.


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## XIronheadX (Apr 10, 2016)

Covering that kind of ground you are a true turkey hunter. I hope you come across a few. Scary to think those mountains are barren of turkeys.


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## NCMTNHunter (Apr 10, 2016)

I have a couple spots I am able to keep tabs on on my way to work in morning. Birds in both places were gobbling good until Wednesday morning and the woods went silent. I didn't get to hunt Saturday but the birds seem to be there but they have come down with a serious case of lock jaw. I think I'm a couple counties east of you.


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## The mtn man (Apr 10, 2016)

NCMTNHunter said:


> I have a couple spots I am able to keep tabs on on my way to work in morning. Birds in both places were gobbling good until Wednesday morning and the woods went silent. I didn't get to hunt Saturday but the birds seem to be there but they have come down with a serious case of lock jaw. I think I'm a couple counties east of you.



It didn't concern me not hearing any, lock jaw is not uncommon, not to mention the light acorn crop from last year, I figured gobbling wouldn't be all that great this year, what concerns me is there is no evidence of a turkey. I have plenty of other places, but I can't stress how good of a turkey population that has lived in this mtn range. Also hearing from the other fellas that hunt the high mtn areas that their not finding any is extremely concerning. I know some areas that are walk in areas that have been burned earlier this spring. I will implement plan B pretty soon I suppose.


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## billy336 (Apr 11, 2016)

GA would be better off by letting folks trap coons year round. Thinning them out and opossums as well, has really helped the hatches on the ground I manage. I average 60 coon and 10 opossum on one 640 acre farm here in FL. You can't have turkeys if the nests get wiped out


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## herb mcclure (Apr 11, 2016)

*Maybe cause for concern*

Chlem, as you know I am not able to scout, or hunt hardly at all these days. 

However, don't give up on your always known hunting areas; because an old hen will always go back to her nesting places; of years before. When the woods were as vacant of mast, as last year was; there was nothing in the winter woods for turkeys to eat; and they left to go to where-ever they had too; to find food. When the woods green-up and bugs and greenery come into the high country, the hens will go back to nest where they always have; that is; what hens there are  left to go-back.

Yes, the turkey population is way down in our highest mountains; where you and I like to hunt. However, the hunters, who are hunting the lower next to food areas, like some who have been posting on this forum; have had great success. 

 Let me know from you someday,  private, if what I have posted comes true.
herb mcclure


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## The mtn man (Apr 11, 2016)

herb mcclure said:


> Chlem, as you know I am not able to scout, or hunt hardly at all these days.
> 
> However, don't give up on your always known hunting areas; because an old hen will always go back to her nesting places; of years before. When the woods were as vacant of mast, as last year was; there was nothing in the winter woods for turkeys to eat; and they left to go to where-ever they had too; to find food. When the woods green-up and bugs and greenery come into the high country, the hens will go back to nest where they always have; that is; what hens there are  left to go-back.
> 
> ...



Thanks, mr Herb, I too think a few will come in there when it starts to get green, I've experienced lots of years with low mast, and have always found sign in there, there's another thing I forgot to mention, in my area there have been several turkeys mysteriously dead, myself and a coworker found a big gobbler that was bad sick, it wouldn't run from us and would just stand and look at the ground like a sick chicken, we found him a few days later dead! Others have found a few dead turkeys also, and your right, the guys hunting around the fields here are killing a few, I expect that, but even there, it seems there's less this year. A friend of mine was parked where I was Saturday, he called me that night to see what I found and to inform me there were no turkeys in there, he said he seen one out in a field on the way home, went around the corner and set out his strutting decoy, had the gobbler run to it, so he scored on opening morning.


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## mizuno24jad (Apr 11, 2016)

I've always been amazed by how the turkeys survive anyways, between coyotes, fox, raccoons, opossum, if hogs find a nest of eggs they'll eat it. Then hunters tryin to kill 3 gobblers a year, we r lucky to have any turkeys at all. I'd be happy with a one gobbler limit


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## PappyHoel (Apr 11, 2016)

Our population seems to be way down compared to years past.  1800 acres lumpkin cty.  I think it's due to over hunting.  You can't take 8 gobblers a year and think it's not going to hurt you.  

Unlike other posts I think it's all about hunting pressure and over hunting.


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## icdedturkes (Apr 11, 2016)

If coyotes were that damaging States like, ks, OK, NE, TX etc would have no turkeys. We East of the miss believe we have a pile but our population  is meager compared to the above mentioned States.

While coyotes do nothing to help but their effect on the wild turkey is overplayed, egg stealers and avian predators are a much bigger threat


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## The mtn man (Apr 11, 2016)

PappyHoel said:


> Our population seems to be way down compared to years past.  1800 acres lumpkin cty.  I think it's due to over hunting.  You can't take 8 gobblers a year and think it's not going to hurt you.
> 
> Unlike other posts I think it's all about hunting pressure and over hunting.



Yep, I get that too, we have a 2 bird limit, and your only allowed one of those in a day, the thing is, myself and a couple others are all that hunt this area, it's as big as a good sized GA WMA. As far as I know, I'm pretty much the only one that hunts high too, I don't believe this is from over hunting, we just don't have the hunting pressure up here like some of you have on your WMA"s or leases. Even though we had a low last crop, there were some Spanish oaks that hit last fall, ( Scarlett red oaks), turkeys love those and they last until the early spring, also we have lots of fall grapes, and they hit good this year , the only scratching sign around grape covered coves were from grouse, and a little sign from when deer found them this past fall, but zero turkey sign, even from the fall, I can't stress how unusual that is. This area is in the corner of my county, Towns co. GA and Rabun countyGA. I'll do some more investigating and keep you mtn hunters posted, this could be the first year in my adult life that I don't find turkeys and I'm 40.


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## alphachief (Apr 11, 2016)

Unless there's been a complete alien turkey abduction...they're still there.  No way an entire population of turkeys just ups and vanishes.  Keep at it.


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## elfiii (Apr 11, 2016)

icdedturkes said:


> While coyotes do nothing to help but their effect on the wild turkey is overplayed, egg stealers and avian predators are a much bigger threat



I think these two threats are highly underrated.


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## jbogg (Apr 11, 2016)

This is my first year hunting the mountains, but I am not opposed to walking and I know what turkey sign looks like.   Since January I have burned a lot of boot leather scouting NF focusing mainly on areas 3000' and higher.   With the exception of one ridge I have seen very little sign and assumed it was due to a poor mast crop up high.  Prior to our season opening I did see a couple of flocks off of some of the WMA roads down low.  

Sounds like you have hunted the same areas through good times and bad as far as acorns go and I would be concerned as well.  Hoping for a good acorn crop this year, and that this turns out to be a temporary setback.


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## six (Apr 11, 2016)

icdedturkes said:


> While coyotes do nothing to help but their effect on the wild turkey is overplayed, egg stealers and avian predators are a much bigger threat


I agree, I think coyotes have a low impact on turkey populations based on their ability to catch and kill a healthy turkey.  But after what I saw this past weekend I'm wondering if they are somewhat responsible in a different way.  

I've turkey hunted about 50 years.  During that time I can't recall seeing what I saw this weekend, which I witnessed Sat and Sun.  Saturday I was watching a solo hen feed in a field.  All of a sudden she was hit by a Redtailed Hawk.  She went up in the air and came back down and watched as the hawk flew off.   Then on Sunday I was watching a solo hen feed in hardwoods.  Same thing, she was hit by a hawk with the same reaction.  The hawk lit on a nearby limb and watched.  the hen eventually settled down and went back to nervously feeding, then the hawk hit her again then flew off.  I mean a loud solid thud hit.  After seeing this it got me to thinking.  I hardly ever found remains of dead turkeys in the woods.  Maybe one every three to four years.  So far this year I have found three back/pelvic bones from turkeys.  

I'm wondering if the increasing coyote population is decimating local rodent populations that avian predators like hawks and owls depend so much on.  Possibly forcing them to try and find another food source.   Just a crazy thought on my part trying to make sense of our seemingly decreasing turkey populations.


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## The mtn man (Apr 11, 2016)

Hey six, I don't believe that's a crazy thought at all, I posted in another thread how I had a big gobbler strutting to me one morning on a steep ridge and witnessed a red tail hit him in the back!!! Of course that sent him sailing away, bad for me, but how often does that happen, and how often are the Hawks successful? I know they catch a lot of poults, and I've never seen so many Hawks as we have now, we don't have a lot of coyotes anymore either.


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## ryanh487 (Apr 11, 2016)

Same in Polk County.  We had birds ALL OVER our property for years.  This season we've gotten trail cam pics of 2 hens and haven't heard a single gobble, found a single track or feather anywhere on the property where they usually are.  The only toms we can get to respond are on the neighboring property and hen up before they get to the property line.  It's weird for sure, like something wiped them all out over the last year.


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## dark horse (Apr 11, 2016)

In SE GA it's chicken manure, plain and simple.  I no longer bother hunting properties that have had recent use of chicken manure on the neighboring fields.   Large timbered tracts with limited exposure are still full of turkeys.  I am noticing this exact pattern as far as I choose to travel to hunt (2-3 counties in any direction).   It appears the use is here to stay but I am 100% convinced that our turkey numbers are plummeting because of it.  

Case in point:   Dilane is 8000 acres and has a huntable population.  Dilane is surrounded by 30-40000(or more) acres of mostly agriculture that is now mostly devoid of turkeys that have disappeared during the last 10 years of heavy chicken manure use.  This area before that time was turkey hunting heaven.  The turkeys at dilane spend little if any time in fields fertilized w/ chicken manure thus they survive.


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## Buck Roar (Apr 11, 2016)

Hunted this morning at one of the local WMA's and it was loaded with sign. Never saw one but they have been there.


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## Luke0927 (Apr 11, 2016)

In our Hancock club.  we now have a member that is retired and hunts during the week lives close to the place,  I've also seen a lot of coyote tracks in the roads and scat.  Last two years our numbers are down from before....I attribute it to both of those at our place.


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## whitetailfreak (Apr 11, 2016)

The pop seems to be holding steady in the high mountains I hunt around my hometown. In the last 4 days, I've heard or seen 5 different gobblers all above 3400 ft. Untold numbers of hens.


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## whitetailfreak (Apr 11, 2016)

Cklem, my dad lives over in Graham County. He is no turkey hunter, but is on Fontanta nearly every day fishing. He has been seeing and hearing plenty on the NNF side.


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## Garnto88 (Apr 11, 2016)

Red tail hawks have always been predators to turkeys as well as coyotes.  Most don't think coyotes will catch a turkey but that is why they come to your turkey call.


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## icdedturkes (Apr 11, 2016)

I have given this so much thought since our birds plummeted in the early 2000s and just now rebounded. Our DNR is always quick to blame winter, but even threw mild winters with saw a steady decline. It still does not explain the widespread decline seen all over the United States in the south which essentially has no winter devestating enough to harm turkeys. 

First of all I believe turkeys are cyclical and regardless of other factors there will be ups and downs. Think about it, ruffed grouse run a 7-10 year population cycle. I do not think biologists can even determine the underlying reasons. Its nothing in peak years to hear 50-60 grouse drum a day, the last few years we are on the down slope and its evident. 

I am not gonna comment on the agriculture practices in Georgia but have a slew of ideas as to how ag practices have effected my home states birds. Farming has become science and big business and I believe it has been detrimental to turkeys. 

For the Avian Predators DDT was banned around 1970, but the residual effects long term on Avian Predators most likely lasted much longer than that in the avian predator population. It could be that just in the last 5 years or so some areas avian predators have finally rebounded and the effects are evident in prey (turkeys). Up here it is not uncommon to see bald eagles every day and it seems as if every fence post has a hawk. 

Another thing rarely talked about in this discussion is the fur market. My folks owned a general store/gas station growing up, it was nothing in the late 80s early 90s to have 20 trucks in the parking lot in the evening buying gas, beer, snacks etc getting ready to go out coon hunting. At least up here those days are gone. Additionally trapping is not the popular sport it once was. The decline in fur prices made it so you spent more money in gas trapping than you did on furs thus many folks up here quit trapping. The by catch (Opposums, skunks etc) in addition to the targeted furs coon, fox etc led to a spike in nest raiding predators.


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## bearhunter39 (Apr 11, 2016)

cklem said:


> It didn't concern me not hearing any, lock jaw is not uncommon, not to mention the light acorn crop from last year, I figured gobbling wouldn't be all that great this year, what concerns me is there is no evidence of a turkey. I have plenty of other places, but I can't stress how good of a turkey population that has lived in this mtn range. Also hearing from the other fellas that hunt the high mtn areas that their not finding any is extremely concerning. I know some areas that are walk in areas that have been burned earlier this spring. I will implement plan B pretty soon I suppose.


I think your turkeys have left because there was no acorns,they may be back once it greens up.


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## Timber1 (Apr 11, 2016)

Maybe we should train the raptors to go after all the geese and leave the turkeys alone. Maybe they dont like the way geese taste. Can you blame them?


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## The mtn man (Apr 12, 2016)

whitetailfreak said:


> Cklem, my dad lives over in Graham County. He is no turkey hunter, but is on Fontanta nearly every day fishing. He has been seeing and hearing plenty on the NNF side.



Thanks, I know there's places around here I could find a bird right now, my main concern I was referring to, is an area of about 15k acres that I hunt, I've been through bad acorn years, a lot of coyote years, years where a lot of folks were hunting it from out of state, I've seen it all, my concern was these turkeys are gone, it is possible that overtime, they maybe 1x1 getting use to corn feeders , down on the private land in the valley , that is the logical explanation, if these turkeys havnt moved there, then they are just gone!


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## The mtn man (Apr 12, 2016)

bearhunter39 said:


> I think your turkeys have left because there was no acorns,they may be back once it greens up.


I could believe that, but where did they go? These woods are all the same, there is a few fields several miles away, there's no turkeys in those fields. They never left before, there is no where better for them to go, I am puzzled


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## Timber1 (Apr 12, 2016)

Turkeys follow the food. When there is not enough food to sustain them they move. I have seen it happen on Cohutta and nf land several times. Land that held flocks for years suddenly have none. Sometimes it takes years for them to move back into an area they abandon. Some years they are just slow about breaking up flocks and seem nonexistent because they are concentrated in small areas. Around the areas I hunt I have noticed this year that gobblers were still grouped together much later than usual. Even though the trees bloomed early, did anyone else notice that the dogwoods were about a month early blooming this year, the turkeys seem to have an innate sense on weather conditions and will put off their mating habits until the weather stabilizes. Case in point, the last week we had sub 32 degree weather which would have wreaked havoc on turkey eggs already laid but not being kept warm continuously. Give the birds a little more credit for their survival skills, they have been at it a long time. 
Not scouting preseason and year round, but just relying on the birds to be in places they have traditionally been, especially birds that have vast areas to travel about and are not being supplemented with food by people to keep them around, is a bad idea. Scouting and finding the birds is a major element in the hunting them for me. I find it very disheartening that so called hunters are now moving into the wild public land areas on a large scale and setting up feed areas to concentrate the birds so as to take the scouting for birds out of the equation. 
Im always a little more than skeptical when I see guys tag out a week or two into the season on any land, but especially on big woods birds. They are just not that concentrated in a natural world after flock breakup. Their survival depends on it. 
You want to take the wild out of an animal start feeding him.


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## turkeykirk (Apr 12, 2016)

Timber1 said:


> Maybe we should train the raptors to go after all the geese and leave the turkeys alone. Maybe they dont like the way geese taste. Can you blame them?



No shortage of geese around here. No room for the turkeys in the fields with all the geese in them!


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## Timber1 (Apr 12, 2016)

turkeykirk said:


> No shortage of geese around here. No room for the turkeys in the fields with all the geese in them!


My point exactly.....why are the geese not suffering extreme losses, or squirrels?


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## Beagler282 (Apr 12, 2016)

My problem has been with the hawks.My poults don't stand a chance around my hunting property.


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## XIronheadX (Apr 12, 2016)

The mortality rate of an Eastern turkey poult is between 56 and 73 percent.  Throw in a few more factors and it's easy to realize how fragile the balance is. I just hope I start seeing more hens to lay some eggs.


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## The mtn man (Apr 12, 2016)

Timber1 said:


> Turkeys follow the food. When there is not enough food to sustain them they move. I have seen it happen on Cohutta and nf land several times. Land that held flocks for years suddenly have none. Sometimes it takes years for them to move back into an area they abandon. Some years they are just slow about breaking up flocks and seem nonexistent because they are concentrated in small areas. Around the areas I hunt I have noticed this year that gobblers were still grouped together much later than usual. Even though the trees bloomed early, did anyone else notice that the dogwoods were about a month early blooming this year, the turkeys seem to have an innate sense on weather conditions and will put off their mating habits until the weather stabilizes. Case in point, the last week we had sub 32 degree weather which would have wreaked havoc on turkey eggs already laid but not being kept warm continuously. Give the birds a little more credit for their survival skills, they have been at it a long time.
> Not scouting preseason and year round, but just relying on the birds to be in places they have traditionally been, especially birds that have vast areas to travel about and are not being supplemented with food by people to keep them around, is a bad idea. Scouting and finding the birds is a major element in the hunting them for me. I find it very disheartening that so called hunters are now moving into the wild public land areas on a large scale and setting up feed areas to concentrate the birds so as to take the scouting for birds out of the equation.
> Im always a little more than skeptical when I see guys tag out a week or two into the season on any land, but especially on big woods birds. They are just not that concentrated in a natural world after flock breakup. Their survival depends on it.
> You want to take the wild out of an animal start feeding him.


I like the way you think brother!!! And understand that I realize what your saying is true, I was just a little taken back by the fact there is no sign in the area, not even left over from the fall, it may be that my old way of doing things,( not scouting), might have come to an end, I've had it good for a very long time, I guess it's time to see what I'm made of.


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## Dinosaur (Apr 12, 2016)

icdedturkes said:


> I have given this so much thought since our birds plummeted in the early 2000s and just now rebounded. Our DNR is always quick to blame winter, but even threw mild winters with saw a steady decline. It still does not explain the widespread decline seen all over the United States in the south which essentially has no winter devestating enough to harm turkeys.
> 
> First of all I believe turkeys are cyclical and regardless of other factors there will be ups and downs. Think about it, ruffed grouse run a 7-10 year population cycle. I do not think biologists can even determine the underlying reasons. Its nothing in peak years to hear 50-60 grouse drum a day, the last few years we are on the down slope and its evident.
> 
> ...



I agree with all that is said here and would like to add one more. Clear cutting hardwoods. I have seen hundreds of acres cut in my county the last few years and even if they go back and plant pines, these woods can never hold the numbers of birds they once did. Habitat loss is becoming huge imo.


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## Buck Roar (Apr 12, 2016)

Nvm


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## Gbr5pb (Apr 12, 2016)

Had a big red tail fly off with our jake decoy


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## GTHunter007 (Apr 13, 2016)

The smoke billowing from control burns of prime habitat properties in late March and into April are doing way more harm than good.  Bank on it.  

Folks using cover crops that get mowed after poults have hatched and are using it for cover also wipes out broods.  

Great Horned Owls kill mature turkeys at night sitting on their roost.  

A single armadillo can wipe out every nest in a 200 yard circle in a week.  And forget about Coons, hogs and coyotes.  

But IMO the nature aspect as it relates to predators is not the main source of blame.  Man's ag practices and burning is what is hurting the turkeys more than anything.  Jasper County just got done with 2-3000 acres of public land being burned...I shutter to think about the number of nests destroyed in that burn alone.


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## humdandy (Apr 13, 2016)

I found a dead hen the other day and one egg shell along with her, of course critters could have taken off the other eggs.

We've always had fox, coyotes, and bobcats...........IMO that is not the problem.


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## XIronheadX (Apr 13, 2016)

GTHunter007 said:


> The smoke billowing from control burns of prime habitat properties in late March and into April are doing way more harm than good.  Bank on it.
> 
> Folks using cover crops that get mowed after poults have hatched and are using it for cover also wipes out broods.
> 
> ...



I was going to guess armadillos, but I read their mouth wasn't big enough to do anything to a turkey egg?


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## bradleyjanes06 (Apr 13, 2016)

Another big issue facing the bird nest are fir ants.  Tons of nest get destroyed each year by those little pest.  I never really thought about them till talking with a biologist.  Ants snakes and coons seem to be the highest ranking nest destroyers in ga.


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## The mtn man (Apr 13, 2016)

Most of the things mentioned above, no doubt pertain to places south of the mountains, but we don't have a lot of that up here.


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## j_seph (Apr 13, 2016)

spydermon said:


> You're not the lone ranger.  Ga is the same way and the population is down..no matter what is said..the turkeys aren't around like the used to be.
> Deer are the same way as well.
> 
> Predators, overly long seasons and generous limits all contribute for BOTH


Not so much the limits but the greed of man, no law states you have to kill a limit.


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## XIronheadX (Apr 13, 2016)

cklem said:


> Most of the things mentioned above, no doubt pertain to places south of the mountains, but we don't have a lot of that up here.



Maybe the turkeys just got lazy and moved to the flat land. I hunted the mountains one time and that was the weekend after the blizzard of 93. I walked out a ridge about 5 am. It got daylight and it looked like a nuclear explosion. Trees the size of the bed of my truck snapped off. I never went back.  Give me some swamp.


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## spydermon (Apr 13, 2016)

j_seph said:


> Not so much the limits but the greed of man, no law states you have to kill a limit.



You're right, but 3 is just a number to some.


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## M Sharpe (Apr 14, 2016)

ryanh487 said:


> Same in Polk County.  We had birds ALL OVER our property for years.  This season we've gotten trail cam pics of 2 hens and haven't heard a single gobble, found a single track or feather anywhere on the property where they usually are.  The only toms we can get to respond are on the neighboring property and hen up before they get to the property line.  It's weird for sure, like something wiped them all out over the last year.



You guys are still the highest reported county in the state though.


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## Permitchaser (Apr 14, 2016)

I have been hunting in Newton county and yesterday I saw the first turkey I've seen this year, a hen, and I heard a hen. That's it in areas we had gobblers last year. I have been hunting hard early and in afternoons. Nothing... By the way I only have killed one turkey a year as my own limit


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## whitetailfreak (Apr 14, 2016)

I typically spend 2-3 days per week during Feb and early March locating turkeys on the roughly 100,000 acs of CNF and mountain WMA that I hunt near my home. Both Toms I killed on Cohutta this year, had been located prior, and were 12 miles apart. Since my time in the woods is limited, I prefer to spend the early part of turkey season hunting turkeys, not trying to locate them. I have approx 15 areas I check each preseason, and of those 3 or 4 will end up being productive. As Timber mentioned, I also see cycles where turkeys come and go from large areas. With all that being said, I don't believe I would be overly concerned, and short term would branch out and hunt some other areas.


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## M Sharpe (Apr 14, 2016)

I think the population statewide is down. Where I hunt, they control burn from February til June. That is a killer there. Also the hogs, more than the coyotes have taken over!! Chicken litter.....maybe, but where I hunt, there is no chicken litter.


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## Killer Kyle (Apr 14, 2016)

whitetailfreak said:


> The pop seems to be holding steady in the high mountains I hunt around my hometown. In the last 4 days, I've heard or seen 5 different gobblers all above 3400 ft. Untold numbers of hens.



I know many, many factors may play at hand here, but I have never considered owls. Here is an interesting observation from my scouting trip Monday morning. I got in then woods late. I was in the mtns in Towns Co and reached the spot I wanted to hunt/scout a little after 9:00 a.m. I was slipping down a disused logging road very quietly listening and just seeing what I could see. I flushed an owl that was sitting along the road's ledge overlooking a deep cove. It landed on a branch near by, and just watched me slip by. It seemed completely unconcerned with my presence. Seemed cool as a cucumber. I walked maybe 50-60 yards further as quietly as I could muster, and a hen turkey flushed from the same ledge of the road that dropped down into the cove. She had been sitting in laurel and huckleberries. I wondered "hmmm....she looked like she was sitting. I wonder if she was nesting?" I did not go to where she flushed from to investigate because I did not want to further disturb the area in case she was in fact nesting. I realized the owl was still sitting in the tree watching me, maybe 60 yards away, and at that moment, I began to ponder whether or not owls may prey on poults. It was only my single observation, so it lends little to speculation, but I as interested in how the owl sat tight and the turkey sailed away. 
I'm sure a lot of these things factor into our turkey flock here here in then state. A lot of factorsentioned here ones I'd never considered before like the depopularization of trapping, bit some are without doubt killers. Hardwood clear cutting in lower parts of the state provides nesting habitat, yet decimates available food during critical times of the year like pure winter. Our mature forests provide ample hard mast forage in the fall (more or less), yet yield less nesting habitat. I am assuming as stated above that turkey populations are cyclical, as is such with most upland bird species. Ifyou folks aren't NWTF mmembers, you should be. Do your part in maintaining and creating ideal turkey habitat so that we can enjoy these beautiful birds in a sporting way for decades to come!


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## Killer Kyle (Apr 14, 2016)

whitetailfreak said:


> The pop seems to be holding steady in the high mountains I hunt around my hometown. In the last 4 days, I've heard or seen 5 different gobblers all above 3400 ft. Untold numbers of hens.



I know many, many factors may play at hand here, but I have never considered owls. Here is an interesting observation from my scouting trip Monday morning. I got in then woods late. I was in the mtns in Towns Co and reached the spot I wanted to hunt/scout a little after 9:00 a.m. I was slipping down a disused logging road very quietly listening and just seeing what I could see. I flushed an owl that was sitting along the road's ledge overlooking a deep cove. It landed on a branch near by, and just watched me slip by. It seemed completely unconcerned with my presence. Seemed cool as a cucumber. I walked maybe 50-60 yards further as quietly as I could muster, and a hen turkey flushed from the same ledge of the road that dropped down into the cove. She had been sitting in laurel and huckleberries. I wondered "hmmm....she looked like she was sitting. I wonder if she was nesting?" I did not go to where she flushed from to investigate because I did not want to further disturb the area in case she was in fact nesting. I realized the owl was still sitting in the tree watching me, maybe 60 yards away, and at that moment, I began to ponder whether or not owls may prey on poults. It was only my single observation, so it lends little to speculation, but I as interested in how the owl sat tight and the turkey sailed away. 
I'm sure a lot of these things factor into our turkey flock here here in then state. A lot of factors mentioned here are ones I'd never considered before like the depopularization of trapping, but some are without doubt killers. Hardwood clear cutting in lower parts of the state provides nesting habitat, yet decimates available food during critical times of the year like pre winter. Our mature forests provide ample hard mast forage in the fall (more or less), yet yield less nesting habitat. I am assuming as stated above that turkey populations are cyclical, as is such with most upland bird species. Ifyou folks aren't NWTF members, you should be. Do your part in maintaining and creating ideal turkey habitat so that we can enjoy these beautiful birds in a sporting way for decades to come!


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## The mtn man (Apr 15, 2016)

Ok so I found a gobbling turkey in there today, he gobbled one time way down in a cove and I never could tell exactly where he was. At least they are not extinct, I had an 18 year old kid with me, he had one of those step counters with him, we had left the truck at 3:45 to get to our listening spot by daylight, heard the one gobble at around 10:30, according to the counter we had taken around 22,000 steps, I'm still converened that I covered that much ground and never found any scratching or heard another turkey, I did dig some ramps though, and I know an easier way to get to where I heard that bird today, my goal is to kill him tomorrow,


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## Dana Young (Apr 15, 2016)

Go get him Chris


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## The mtn man (Apr 15, 2016)

Dana Young said:


> Go get him Chris



I'm gonna try Dana, I took off most this week to hunt, I've been to almost every place I know near home, today was the first gobble I've heard. I'm gonna enjoy them ramps with some taters though. Also that turkey gobbled in a cove that me and cliff killed one in about 20 years ago, if that gobbler is in there tomorrow, I'm gonna try to set at the same cherry tree that me and Cliff were at when we killed that bird 20 years ago, that will be special to me if I can pull it off.


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## whitetailfreak (Apr 15, 2016)

Dead bird walking. Good luck with him!


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## Dana Young (Apr 15, 2016)

cklem said:


> I'm gonna try Dana, I took off most this week to hunt, I've been to almost every place I know near home, today was the first gobble I've heard. I'm gonna enjoy them ramps with some taters though. Also that turkey gobbled in a cove that me and cliff killed one in about 20 years ago, if that gobbler is in there tomorrow, I'm gonna try to set at the same cherry tree that me and Cliff were at when we killed that bird 20 years ago, that will be special to me if I can pull it off.



I know he is with you


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## The mtn man (Apr 16, 2016)

Dana, I went in there this morning and he was roosted right where I wanted to be, I set up on him in a good place about 100 yards even with him,, when he flew down he gobbled when he hit the ground, that's when I started talking to him, he obviously had hens with him, I worked trying to cut him off until 1030, until he either got gone, or he shut up, he kept beating me to where I was trying to get, oh well, I had lots of fun, he'll be there unless he dies of natural causes, no one hunts in that country but me, there's always next time, at least my mind is at ease knowing there are still a few in there.


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## herb mcclure (Apr 16, 2016)

*Maybe cause for concern*

Chris, you deserves to get your gobbler, in your old hunting place, and I am pulling for you. 

Like you, I have always scouted three to four mouths before season in my favorite territory of mountain gobblers. Now with no time to do this anymore; I have started using trail cameras, to help me learn whats out-there, or in the case of this year; whats not out-there.

I set up two cameras in well known turkey areas. These are five miles apart on different creek drainage. From 2-1-2016, to 3-30-2016, nothing. Then 3-31-2016, was when one of the cameras took the first photo of two hens at one location. Two mouths and no turkeys had walked by either camera, or were there any signs left anywhere. This is where turkeys have always used and could always be counted on using there.

 Seems like I was going to hit pay-dirt; because in another place where I went that same day 3-31-2016 after checking the trail camera, I found where some more hens had left fresh scratching in still another area; very high coves.  I moved one of the cameras there; hoping to get more photos. 

Went back this past Thursday; 15 days later and no turkeys had been- back; either place for the cameras are any signs in the woods.

So, like you, I too question: Are There Reason For Concerns In The Real Mountains. 

My time will be later, than normally this season; possibly even after the season is over; because now as I have told;  I hunt only with a camera and my season is year around; as it has been for many years.   

herb mcclure


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## 01Foreman400 (Apr 16, 2016)

cklem said:


> we had left the truck at 3:45 to get to our listening spot by daylight



Do what?!?!?  3 hour walk to get to the spot to listen?    My tail would be headed to Kroger before I did all that.


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## The mtn man (Apr 16, 2016)

herb mcclure said:


> Chris, you deserves to get your gobbler, in your old hunting place, and I am pulling for you.
> 
> Like you, I have always scouted three to four mouths before season in my favorite territory of mountain gobblers. Now with no time to do this anymore; I have started using trail cameras, to help me learn whats out-there, or in the case of this year; whats not out-there.
> 
> ...



Mr herb, it would be a real treat for me if you brought that camera of yours and went with me sometime, you would like the ground I hunt. White pines have not taken over like your woods, and there are still chestnut logs laying in those deep dark coves. You can still see 300 yards. That makes it hard to move on a gobbler, but it sure is a beautiful special place.


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## The mtn man (Apr 16, 2016)

01Foreman400 said:


> Do what?!?!?  3 hour walk to get to the spot to listen?    My tail would be headed to Kroger before I did all that.



Haha, I had one of those step counters on my waste and took around 24,000 steps yesterday, covering almost 11 miles. Just to hear one gobble. You have to love it!! I love hunting turkeys and deer in these remote places. When I got to my high gap yesterday, there was about 20 through hikers camped out at my listening spot, that was disturbing.


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## herb mcclure (Apr 17, 2016)

*Maybe cause for concern*

Chris I too, was thinking you and I should hunt together someday. Like you again, I have always left home near 3:A M, to be in place to work a gobbler. That is, if one happens to be there. Lots of time they are somewhere else and all that effort was for nil. 
Today's turkey hunters don't understand what it takes to hunt remote gobblers in remote mountains. You and I are a vanishing breed of turkey-men; left from the old school of hunters, which they were required to do; in order to find a gobbler. 
Modern day turkeys, which live in civilization have changed turkey hunting and turkey hunters. 
herb mcclure


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## spydermon (Apr 17, 2016)

Most don't kill true native turkeys, now turkey hunters aren't the same as the ones that hunt the native turkeys???  Must be something about those mountain turkeys.  I want to go up and try one some day to see


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## The mtn man (Apr 17, 2016)

I understand that mr Herb. I think it's great that we all as turkey hunters like different styles of turkey hunting. I've enjoyed many hunts down around the low valley farms around here, I've enjoyed hunting middle GA hunting leases. There are some really good turkey hunters on this forum that will probably never understand why we would spend an entire season trying to kill one high mtn gobbler, but I wouldn't expect them to. I had a good teacher, I'm by no means a great turkey hunter, but there is just something special about these areas I love to hunt, I posted on another thread as to how during my teens, 20s, and early 30s , I felt like I needed to prove something by killing as many turkeys as I could, I've finally came to a place that it's not about that anymore, there is only one gobbler on my mind this year. It could even be the one that gave me the slip last year. If I don't get him, I'll still be greatfull that I got to chase him. I've got a lot going on this year, I don't even know if I'll have the chance to get back after him, hopefully next year I'll have things in order, I'd really like to spend the day in the turkey woods with you.


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## The mtn man (Apr 17, 2016)

spydermon said:


> Most don't kill true native turkeys, now turkey hunters aren't the same as the ones that hunt the native turkeys???  Must be something about those mountain turkeys.  I want to go up and try one some day to see



I'd like to take you, you will see that if you can get on one, personally I think those turkeys, whether native or not, just unpressured, and low number of hens, make them easier to work. After the hens start to set most of them will commit suicide. There's nothing more frustrating for me than trying to kill a gobbler that  has 30 hens and fields to hang out in. There may only be a half dozen hens in these areas, when they start setting, that mtn gobbler gets real lonley.


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## spydermon (Apr 17, 2016)

Easier you think?


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## flagatorhunter7 (Apr 17, 2016)

Not sure if NC allows hunting hens but if not at the least that population is still there and should be leaving sign.  And if hens are around, gobblers aren't too far off with little hunting pressure.
I have a better explanation...turkey's teleport to different areas.


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## WOODIE13 (Apr 17, 2016)

WV is the same way, where they used to be all over, they are few and far between, at least the areas I hunt in the mountains.  I attribute it to increased coyote populations, avian predators, harsh winters with deep snow and mature forests with no more timbering (especially on the the National Park Service lands @ the New and some WMA's) for good nesting cover.  I would put them right there with with the decline of grouse.


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## The mtn man (Apr 17, 2016)

spydermon said:


> Easier you think?



Not easier to get to.


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