# Forcing cones, and burnishing......



## tankeryanker (Jan 14, 2010)

I havent done either to my shotgun.  I shoot an  870 express sugermagnum, and Ive been reading up on it.  I read that if the forcing cone isnt the right length and if it isnt honed right it could take away from your pattern.  That sort of made me leary as to going through with the deal.  I dont believe I have enough sense mess with the forcing cones but thought about burnishing the inside of the barrell.  What you guys think about it, and how much did it improve your patterns for those of you have had it done to your gun.  By the way im shooting an undertaker 660 choke.  Any advice on a better set up is welcome.


----------



## DonArkie (Jan 14, 2010)

barrel work to shotgun only helps,
I have a Mossberg 88 pump that I had a ton of barrel work done by Angle Porting aka Ballistic Specialites. I had them  lengthen the forcing cone, back bore the barrel to 745, polished the interior of the barrel, extended porting. I had the receiver de-bured and polished so the bolt runs smooth and with a 675 Indian Creek tube (turkey) & the Indian Creek 720 (waterfowl)that gun throws a heck of a pattern.





Angle Porting done my Stoeger O & U 12ga. I had both barrels back bored to 740, polished barrels, extended porting, both forcing cones lengthen 
I had the chambers polished. This gun too throws a heck of a pattern & with the 2 Indian Creek 665 tubes (turkey) & the 2 710 Indian Creek for (waterfowl). I had the recoil set trigger changed over to mechanical & a trigger job by a over & under specialiest in Mich.
I believe any barrel work will make a shotgun perform better, mine are proof they do very, very well.




My wifes turkey gun Charles Daly pump in 20 ga. Angle Porting done alot of work to the barrel, forcing cone work, polished the barrel & chamber, angle ported the barrel, 10 oz. Kinetic Barrel Weight. Indian Creek special ordered 552 tube & the Nitro # 7, 3"


----------



## Dupree (Jan 14, 2010)

good looking guns donarkie


----------



## chase870 (Jan 14, 2010)

I shoot a super mag as well. forceing cones lengthend and ported barell throws a mean pattern. It improves the paterns with every choke improved cylender to superfull. Have it done by a gunsmith, well worth the cost


----------



## brucemacgee19 (Jan 14, 2010)

well you take that gun hunting once in a while and it won't be scared to throw a good pattern.    hahahahah   just pulling your chain there yanker of the tanker


----------



## BgDadyBeardBustr (Jan 14, 2010)

Don, Richard Patty from Alabama did my forcing cone and angle porting at the NWTF Shoot on Forsyth several years ago. I would not take anything for it. They say that lengthening the forcing cone is for a quicker on target sighting for a second shot. It does help in my opinion on relieving some of the kick on these magnum loads as well as the angle porting.
Tankery, I use the same choke but in a .665 Undertaker.
Any work done on your barrel by anyone who does any work on shotguns will help. Gun Doc on here builds a mean Gobbler Snuffer. Good luck, Tim


----------



## trkyhntr70 (Jan 14, 2010)

BgDadyTrophyHunter said:


> Don, Richard Patty from Alabama did my forcing cone and angle porting at the NWTF Shoot on Forsyth several years ago. I would not take anything for it. They say that lengthening the forcing cone is for a quicker on target sighting for a second shot. It does help in my opinion on relieving some of the kick on these magnum loads as well as the angle porting.
> Tankery, I use the same choke but in a .665 Undertaker.
> Any work done on your barrel by anyone who does any work on shotguns will help. Gun Doc on here builds a mean Gobbler Snuffer. Good luck, Tim



Bbl. work can make some great improvements, Curtis ( Gun Docc) Has worked on a few shotguns for me and has really turned a few of them around. Hes very reasonable and the best of the best.


----------



## fountain (Jan 14, 2010)

i am considerinjg doing a little work on my 835 this year and the bbl is the first thing.  i am going to call nitro and try to talk with them about a shell/choke combo.  i do know that they do not recommend lengthening the frocing cone, polishit it and the bbl, but not lengthening.  i am going to ask why when i call them.


----------



## straightshooter (Jan 14, 2010)

While Angle Port is still in business and doing well, the guys who did the guns discussed in this thread were Rob Roberts and Keith Anderson.  Rob was the GM at Angle Port back then, and he and Keith were very instrumental in developing the company product lines and services.  Today Rob owns Gobbler Guns (www.gobblerguns.com), and the company's work is superb.  

With regards to the question about barrel work.  The best thing you can do to a shotgun barrel, in my opinion, is lengthen the forcing cone.  This will reduce felt recoil and increase the pattern performance.  Porting doesn't do anything for patterns and it minimally affects actual recoil.  It does affect felt recoil by limiting the muzzle jump caused by the fit and recoil of the shell.


----------



## hawglips (Jan 15, 2010)

I have heard that lengthening your forcing cone does not necessarily help your patterns if you are shooting hard shot.


----------



## Jody Hawk (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm with you hawglips, I wonder if all this is necessary with today's heavier than lead ammo or was it used to try and get better patterns with lead? I've heard of guns getting great patterns straight from the box. Just asking.


----------



## trkyhntr70 (Jan 15, 2010)

It will make a difference, Ive seen it. Watch this>>>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JNZuG1m1cUY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JNZuG1m1cUY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## DonArkie (Jan 15, 2010)

I totally agree with Rob on his statement.


----------



## DonArkie (Jan 15, 2010)

straightshooter said:


> Porting doesn't do anything for patterns and it minimally affects actual recoil.  It does affect felt recoil by limiting the muzzle jump caused by the fit and recoil of the shell.



I agree porting doesnt do nothing for patterning, I have to say porting help by quicker follow up second and third shots by eliminating barrel deflection. You want that if your turkey or wind shooting in my book.

My turkey guns I like them back bored, this reduces recoil and shortening the shot string. I feel this is great for a turkey gun. Giving that gobbler the full on blast. Back boring also allows the shot load to be controlled by the choke tube rather than the barrel bore constriction. Too many barrels are NOT true too there nature. Plus I figure this is why more factory shotgun barrels are come out now days with larger bore dia.'s
I figure you got one gun for turkey, go for the barrel work all the way, but the back bore wouldnt be a good choice for ducks do to you want a longer shot stream.

Rob & Keith has a new gun of mine , for ducks.


----------



## hawglips (Jan 15, 2010)

My question is solely regarding "hard" shot -- hevishot, hevi-13, heavyweight, TSS, etc.

Has anyone here documented any quanitifiable and measureable pattern improvement by shooting the exact same hard shot loads before and after lengthening of the forcing cone of their gun?


----------



## hawglips (Jan 15, 2010)

My understanding is that the reason lengthening forcing cones apparently help patterns, is due to less shot deformation.

http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnicalTracts/ConesBores.html

http://www.thepatterningboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=reference&action=display&thread=5

If that is the case, with hard shot, there is no shot deformation.  So there would be no benefit to creating an environment where there is less of something that doesn't exist.   This is the origin of my question.


----------



## Medicine Man (Jan 15, 2010)

DonArkie said:


> but the back bore wouldnt be a good choice for ducks do to you want a longer shot stream.
> 
> Rob & Keith has a new gun of mine , for ducks.



#1 Tell me more about why back bore wouldn't be a good choice for ducks.

#2 What would you do to a duck gun?

#3 I have an SBEII. I was thinking of having the cone extended and barrel ported. I was told this would nullify my warranty on the gun. I'm just not sure that it would be worth me giving that up. What's the opinion on this?


----------



## tankeryanker (Jan 15, 2010)

I appreciate all the input fellas.  Just the thought of getting rid of felt recoil is almost enough to talk me into it.


----------



## Trizey (Jan 15, 2010)

Having the forcing cone lengthened has never reduced in felt recoil in my guns.  One of them does have a Knox tactical stock that reduces the kick tremendously though.

Choke and shell combinations are generally the deciding factor for great patterns.  I also like to polish my barrels.


----------



## returntoarchery (Jan 15, 2010)

Medicine Man said:


> #1 Tell me more about why back bore wouldn't be a good choice for ducks.



Just my thinking about it with no experience in duck hunting, I'd think it's because the stringing shot pattern from a non back bored barrel would allow for a oblong pattern on the moving target allowing for more of a margin of error on the lead.  Could and am probably wrong about that.


----------



## DonArkie (Jan 15, 2010)

hawglips said:


> I have heard that lengthening your forcing cone does not necessarily help your patterns if you are shooting hard shot.



My Charles Daly Maxi Max 12ga. with a stock barrel & Hastings .665 Choke tube shot a average pattern of 163 to 169, w\ 3 1\2" # 6 Winchester Extended Range (old shells), then I took that gun to Ballistic Specialites and had the lengthening of forcing cone and picked up 38 more pellets in that 10" on the average & pattern density. 

Now I had a buddy that had the cone lengthen on his 20 ga. and saw zero improvement. But my wifes 20 O & U it did make "some" improvement.


----------



## NorthGaHunter (Jan 15, 2010)

hawglips said:


> I have heard that lengthening your forcing cone does not necessarily help your patterns if you are shooting hard shot.




Agree.......Gun Docc worked on my guns last year and he  not recommend it if I was going to shoot hevi shot.


----------



## Turkey Comander (Jan 17, 2010)

tankeryanker said:


> I appreciate all the input fellas.  Just the thought of getting rid of felt recoil is almost enough to talk me into it.



There has never been any real proof that lengthening the forcing cone reduces felt recoil.....and your gun might actually pattern worse after cutting the forcing cone.

I'd surely never do it on a gun with a chrome lined barrel like a SBE.


----------



## coryo (Jan 17, 2010)

tankeryanker said:


> I appreciate all the input fellas.  Just the thought of getting rid of felt recoil is almost enough to talk me into it.



Who is shooting your gun Whitney?


----------

