# Rayonier lease prices are doubling



## huntininmilan

alot of us got the letter in the mail today.....Rayonier has reevaluated all their leases and redone them all most everyone i've talked with had their lease double and some more than doubled...most all of them are over $10.00 an acre and a good many are $11.00 or more....that will pretty much cripple us and i would imagine many other's as well, with diesel costing over $4.00 a gal leases almost doubling and the economy like it is....don't know how much longer I can play this game!
They are also putting the leases that go unwanted up for bid and you can bet that will not go for under $10-11.00 and knowing how we are our worst enemy probably will go for who know's how much.......I hope rayonier knows what they are doing cause I got a feeling they couldn't have done this at a worst time and it may fall in they're lap, I could see where this could get out of control but I hope i'm wrong! One good thing that will come out of this is it's gonna cut out the middle man making a dollar on the timber company....some of these guys that have several leases with rayonier already sub leasing it out....we will probably see some of them come available on here for $15-16 an acre watch and see or you'll find out when you contact some of these individuals or he contacts you to tell you that your gonna have to pay a few dollars more this year per acre to hunt....without naming names these guys know who they are and I WOULD IMAGINE IT HAS ALOT TO DO WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH RAYONIER AND OTHER TIMBER COMPANIES ALL BECAUSE SOME GUYS GET GREEDY!


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## tyler1

If yours doubled and you are still just over $10/ac count your self lucky.  I wish ours was that cheap.


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## Just 1 More

tyler1 said:


> If yours doubled and you are still just over $10/ac count your self lucky.  I wish ours was that cheap.



exactly


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## Just 1 More

SmokeyJoe said:


> Rayonier must be being run by some people of not so great intelligence. If they were smart they would triple those prices. Come onland owners you know your land is worth more than 12 dollars per acre for hunting. Come on get those prices up so hunting can return to the good ole days of where only the elite could hunt and shoot all they want to.



Wow.. dind't take long for the stupidity to show up


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## ROBD

Just found out ours is $10/acre.  It is an increase of less than 20%.  I will pay it, but don't know about the others with all of the other associated costs increasing too.


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## huntininmilan

they couldn't give this lease to anyone is how i ended up with this particular piece 3 yrs ago and it had trees on it  with which they just clear cut so now i have 70 acres of sometimes creek bottom sometimes not and 230 acres of dirt to look at and the price went to $10 an acre....I know maybe i shouldn't complain but with the whole thing practically clear cut and not alot of woods around i don't think that is necessarily a fair price to go to at this time....if it was all wooded still maybe but not necessarily now, yeah i'll probably try to come up with a way to keep it but don't know for how long...like what a poster said above with everything going thru the roof right now the timing sucks!


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## powerstroker

With the economy like it is i think they would be hard pressed to get double the rate they were charging last year. If we as Sportsmen stand  together and declined the leases, then went and bid the same as 2007 leases or lower they would get the picture. If they had to pay the taxes out of pocket for these leases it wouldn't take long to look at the problem they created, our club consist of 4 different land owners, 40 cent an acre is what they went up.


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## huntininmilan

powerstroker said:


> With the economy like it is i think they would be hard pressed to get double the rate they were charging last year. If we as Sportsmen stand  together and declined the leases, then went and bid the same as 2007 leases or lower they would get the picture. If they had to pay the taxes out of pocket for these leases it wouldn't take long to look at the problem they created, our club consist of 4 different land owners, 40 cent an acre is what they went up.



I'm with you...we as sportsman need to stand together as a unit and turn down their leases and rebid them at this years price not the new rate which oh by the way is due in a month which for some people doubled .....I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE LEASE HOLDERS BUT GOING UP AS MUCH AS THEY DID AND THEN THE MONEY IS DUE IN A MONTH OR 5 WEEKS IS PRETTY CRAPPY AND NOT MUCH NOTICE FOR SUCH A HUGE INCREASE WHEN THEY PROBABLY KNEW ABOUT IT LAST YEAR....THAT'S NOT A WAY TO DO BUSINESS, IT ISN'T LIKE THEY WENT UP .50 OR A DOLLAR, THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN ALL THE LEASE HOLDERS A HEADS UP WAY BEFORE NOW IS WHAT I'M SAYING. 
I think all rayoniers' and whatever other timber company's lease holders involved ought to call those numbers on the letter they just sent out and raise cane with them and let them know how you feel about it as anybody else should have done that had it happen to them.
The sad part about this is I've heard some of this has to do with the few greedy individuals who took it upon themselves to sublease the timber company land and set a market price like they did making a profit off the timber company ....and the timber company instead of dealing with them chose to take advantage of the new found value and impose it upon all their lease holders.


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## cml32063

I am glad I don't have a Rayonier lease. I don't think it has as much to do with Rayonier being greedy as it is they are really hurting from the fires last year. I had a guy in the timber industry tell me that Rayonier lost millions not only last year but also in the next 10-20 years it takes to grow the trees. Basicly a lot of 20 year investments burnt up and now must be started over. So in turn the lease prices go up. I know a 8000 acre dog/still hunting club where I live that has been around 60 years, a great club that generations of families have hunted it. They are in the second year of a 3 year contact stating that the lease would stay at $5.50/acre (a little high for the area avg is $4.50 acre). Rayonier just sent them a letter saying the contract was null and void and the price is now $13.50/acre. Times are tough right now for hunting clubs, the economy, the gas, etc has made it hard to find/keep good members in order to pay the leases. The only choice's we have is to pay the leases or not to pay and lose your lease. You can't really play games with them, there are no cards to play. If you don't pay, someone who can afford it will.


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## mossyhorn

I heard next year they are going to lease to pinestraw companies only. This way there lease price will be between $100 and $125 per acre which is the going rate these day.


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## huntininmilan

that's good....i guess on the pieces that are clear cut like mine and the pieces that have seedlings and young trees like yours they will lose their butt on for the next 10-15 years.........things could be worse and they could come in and spray sludge(human waste treated-that is)on the new clear cuts like they did in florida except it was pastures not clear cuts and they done this at the start of gun season...this was the private land owners that done this.....needless to say it pretty well ruint the gun season for these guys.


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## shellcracker

ROBD said:


> Just found out ours is $10/acre.  It is an increase of less than 20%.  I will pay it, but don't know about the others with all of the other associated costs increasing too.



if you don't mind telling what were you paying? I have heard of all kind of prices and increases our went from 6 to 10  a buddies went from 6.50 to 11.50.


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## shellcracker

*Pine straw*

I agree pine straw is very profitable especially if you have longleaf or slash pines. Most of the pine trees that Raynoier plants  are blackpine or loblolly, that straw is not in high demand.  If you will do a search on Rayonier you will see they are not hurting. Georgia is just a drop in the bucket to holdings everywhere else. Washington, Oregon and New York not counting holdings in Canada and New Zeland. Yep, they have decided to cash in and take advantage of folks that have been paying their price for years. This does not have anything to do with Fl. boys or anybody else but the CEO and board that is running that company. This outfit is on the NY Stock Ex and if they don't make a profit a new CEO will have a shot. I was told that Meade land purchased by Rayonier was leasing for very high prices and they decided to try to get top price out of all of theirs. I know of several tracts that will go up for bid and that is their intent. To break up the big clubs and make some smaller ones available hoping to generate higher prices.


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## DROPPINEM

*Shove It*

My Father In Law Has Been In A Club For 22 Years And When He Heard Of It He Told Them To Shove It.they Cut The Pines Last Year And Then The Following Year They Doubled The Prices.(by The Way It Is Owned By Rayonier)


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## huntininmilan

DROPPINEM said:


> My Father In Law Has Been In A Club For 22 Years And When He Heard Of It He Told Them To Shove It.they Cut The Pines Last Year And Then The Following Year They Doubled The Prices.(by The Way It Is Owned By Rayonier)


haven't had mine but for 3 years and i had trees when i got it knew they were gonna cuy it eventually but the lease only goes up .50 an acre each year so now it's clear cut lease goes up .50 no big deal mostly clear cut only 60-70 acres bottom left out of 300 acres but the lease is still reasonable till this year when they doubled it and drop the bomb on most of us a month before it's due now that's just plain frustrating anyway you look at it .....if they would have told everyone about their plan when they first had the notion of doing this increase whether we liked it or not we still could have made other plans in advance and it wouldn't have been such a bitter pill to swallow....now I got to wonder if they are gonna increase it incrementally as they've done for years on top of this and when
The letter mentions how they arrived at what they think is a fair price based on woods left game available, etc.....I like to know how they think 75% of your lease is bare dirt and the other 25% is strips of bottom you can see thru ...where is the game to lay up at with a field on 2 sides a hard road on the other......how does that equate into $10-11 an acre...it'll be 3-5 years before any game(deer) utilize these clear cuts during daylight hours


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## mgholloway

ROBD said:


> Just found out ours is $10/acre.  It is an increase of less than 20%.  I will pay it, but don't know about the others with all of the other associated costs increasing too.



If you don't mind telling what was your lease before it went up 10


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## tailchaser85

Our land in Long and Macintosh county doubled also. Just got the letter sometime last week.


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## bull0ne

huntininmilan said:


> I'm with you...we as sportsman need to stand together as a unit and turn down their leases and rebid them at this years price not the new rate which oh by the way is due in a month which for some people doubled .....I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE LEASE HOLDERS BUT GOING UP AS MUCH AS THEY DID AND THEN THE MONEY IS DUE IN A MONTH OR 5 WEEKS IS PRETTY CRAPPY AND NOT MUCH NOTICE FOR SUCH A HUGE INCREASE WHEN THEY PROBABLY KNEW ABOUT IT LAST YEAR....THAT'S NOT A WAY TO DO BUSINESS, IT ISN'T LIKE THEY WENT UP .50 OR A DOLLAR, THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN ALL THE LEASE HOLDERS A HEADS UP WAY BEFORE NOW IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
> I think all rayoniers' and whatever other timber company's lease holders involved ought to call those numbers on the letter they just sent out and raise cane with them and let them know how you feel about it as anybody else should have done that had it happen to them.
> The sad part about this is I've heard some of this has to do with the few greedy individuals who took it upon themselves to sublease the timber company land and set a market price like they did making a profit off the timber company ....and the timber company instead of dealing with them chose to take advantage of the new found value and impose it upon all their lease holders.



Gonna plant some of those sweet loooking food plots on it before you lose it to me when I outbid you?  

It would be right neighborly if you'd fertilize em good too...........might be running short on cash after all these bidding wars get  settled. 

Seriously, Rayonier has been behind the curve in regards to lease prices and they have corrected things in one fell swoop with across the board increases.

I'll say it once again........what once was a poor man's hobby is becoming a rich man's sport.


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## Twenty five ought six

In the 70's I was working with a gentleman that had the master lease on all Rayonier land in SE Georgia.  The lease was for a term of years (10,20, ?) and expired while I was there.  He (and his partners) renegotiated the lease with Rayonier, and raised lease prices for the sub-lessees -- to over a dollar an acre.  Folks went ballistic, swore they would give up hunting, burn the woods, etc.

Didn't happen then, won't happen now.


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## huntininmilan

bull0ne said:


> Gonna plant some of those sweet loooking food plots on it before you lose it to me when I outbid you?
> 
> It would be right neighborly if you'd fertilize em good too...........might be running short on cash after all these bidding wars get  settled.
> 
> Seriously, Rayonier has been behind the curve in regards to lease prices and they have corrected things in one fell swoop with across the board increases.
> 
> I'll say it once again........what once was a poor man's hobby is becoming a rich man's sport.


you got me on that one bullOneit's good to know that they don't go unnoticed, lot of hard but fun work goes into those plots, pops is up there right now and said the deer are hammering our plots but that they look good suppose to be taking some pics for me hopefully have some good pics to post....that's the worst part bout it if you have to give one up unexpectedly..is all that hard work you walk away from, I had a conversation with rayonier and he said that exact thing about their lease prices being behind the curve of everyone else and that they felt they needed to make the adjustment and make it imediately they know they may end up with land not being leased but the higher ups made this decision and that's what they are going with...they had to make a correction, he also said that they have to be prepared to come down if the bottom falls out at any point later in the futurealso said shouldn't have to worry about any substantial increases in the imediate future maybe only some little minor chages depending on the state of your land i would imagine all clearcut now a little cheaper and later with trees expect increases...all in all he sounded pretty descent, don't have to like it but it is what it is and the change is going to be made and also that they do read these boards mentioned GON and other hunting blogs by name...which most of us already knew that anyway!


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## 10point

*tax rate*

we pay 6.10 an acre for timber land. they give us a copy of the taxes. it usually goes up a quarter or less a year.


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## shellcracker

*Who is the they you are referring to*

Are you leasing from Rayonier and what state or county if you don't mind. That is about the cheapest I have heard from Rayonier.


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## bull0ne

huntininmilan said:


> you got me on that one bullOneit's good to know that they don't go unnoticed, lot of hard but fun work goes into those plots, pops is up there right now and said the deer are hammering our plots but that they look good suppose to be taking some pics for me hopefully have some good pics to post....that's the worst part bout it if you have to give one up unexpectedly..is all that hard work you walk away from, I had a conversation with rayonier and he said that exact thing about their lease prices being behind the curve of everyone else and that they felt they needed to make the adjustment and make it imediately they know they may end up with land not being leased but the higher ups made this decision and that's what they are going with...they had to make a correction, he also said that they have to be prepared to come down if the bottom falls out at any point later in the futurealso said shouldn't have to worry about any substantial increases in the imediate future maybe only some little minor chages depending on the state of your land i would imagine all clearcut now a little cheaper and later with trees expect increases...all in all he sounded pretty descent, don't have to like it but it is what it is and the change is going to be made and also that they do read these boards mentioned GON and other hunting blogs by name...which most of us already knew that anyway!



Oh...........I've noticed! No doubt you've put a lot of $$$ and sweat into your foodplot program. You have too much invested to let the increases bluff you into walking away from your tract.

It'll all be worth it in the end!


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## huntmstr

You want to know why leases are increasing...try leasing land in FL.  Anything south of SR24 is going from $14-$40/ac!!!  The closer you get to Central and South Florida, the higher it goes.  I live in Tampa.  The property I use to hunt has been developed.  What is still huntable and available for lease is going for $40/ac.  And south of Tampa, it's  even higher.  I know of 1 lease near Arcadia / Fish Eating Creek area that is 10 members, 2000/ac at $20,000 per person.  THAT'S $200/AC!!!! And there's plenty of rich folks willing to pay it without batting an eye.  Makes me sick.


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## tail_slider3d

Ours increased $4.50 an acre this year.  We are now over the $10 mark.  Its sad that its now a money making industry.


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## Thebody

I agree with some posts that there should have been more notice when a 3 to 5 dollar increase per acre was coming.  However, Rayonier is just what was decribed "an industry".  The company has the obligation to make a profit for it's shareholders.  Rayonier has employees that are dependant on the company for income.  With gas prices up and the timber market down Rayonier has to adjust to the economy.  Some of the prices being paid were pretty low comparitevely at 5 to 6 dollars an acre.  Now they have adjusted the price to reflect what the going rate is or what they can get.  

I helped a friend find out what the going rate was for a lease in Alabama.  He was priced $2 and acre under the going rate.  It's his land and his taxes went up and the roads needed improvement.  Should he make money off of it, absolutely.  

It is a pricing game and I believe some people are going to be forced out of leases.  But I don't understand what Rayonier can do, let people hunt for free or just keep the rates enough to pay taxes and up keep?  The economy is balancing it self out.  People have lost jobs, the mortgage problems continue and the dollar is weak.  It won't last forever, but people are starting to feel it.  This includes people hunting and fishing.  

The only real solution is to buy land.  If that's not an option then someone will have to pay the lease prices.


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## Southernhoundhunter

The problem isn't that they increased to lease prices, It's that they doubled or tripled on the price per acre and they gave us only a month to pay it. We are also being cheated out of 2 months of lease (the leases are usually due July 31 and now are due on May 31) I thought that this was illegal but there might be some fine print i didn't see. We are hoping that are club will make the lease but it's not looking to good right now. We are in Liberty county. If anyone has interest in joining a good dog club. PM me for details. 1000  a year


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## Twenty five ought six

> We are also being cheated out of 2 months of lease (the leases are usually due July 31 and now are due on May 31)



No you are not. You are being asked to submit next year's lease by May 31.  This year's lease will still go through July 31.

Look at the dates on _next _ year's lease.


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## Southernhoundhunter

I gotcha, I guess i just missed that. I think what will kill a lot of clubs is the one month deadline. It's hard to get tens of thousands more dollars in a month or less.


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## huntininmilan

this is def affecting all of us the same way it sounds and more than anything it's the short notice of gathering a hefty increase due in a month....having said that i see where they are coming from on coming up to market value but i durn sure don't agree on how market value came to be where it is now and that is from the land scammers and lease double dippers that are amongst us trying to make a unhonest dollar off somebody's elses land....hopefully we can ride this thing out and and see the light at the end of the tunnel and still be able to hunt and pass it down to our kids....we are fast losing participation in a heritage and a culture that many of us grew up watching our fathers and gandfathers do and and we don't need it to be because of greed and the almighty dollar!


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## 10point

shellcracker said:


> Are you leasing from Rayonier and what state or county if you don't mind. That is about the cheapest I have heard from Rayonier.



we don't lease from rayonier.another timber company. Southeast georgia.


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## Southernhoundhunter

huntininmilan said:


> this is def affecting all of us the same way it sounds and more than anything it's the short notice of gathering a hefty increase due in a month....having said that i see where they are coming from on coming up to market value but i durn sure don't agree on how market value came to be where it is now and that is from the land scammers and lease double dippers that are amongst us trying to make a unhonest dollar off somebody's elses land....hopefully we can ride this thing out and and see the light at the end of the tunnel and still be able to hunt and pass it down to our kids....we are fast losing participation in a heritage and a culture that many of us grew up watching our fathers and gandfathers do and and we don't need it to be because of greed and the almighty dollar!



Most clubs require kids to join the club when they graduate high school or college. With club dues averaging well over $1000, kids just aren't going to be able to, or want to spend that much to hunt. It's sad, but true


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## Timberchicken

Our Rayonier lease also went to $10.00/acre. Can't afford not to pay it, TOO MANY TURKEYS IN THERE....


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## navy

I always complain when the lease prices go up but I pay it because I can afford it.  The people I feel sorry for is the younger folks who  will be priced out of doing something they love by greedy people.


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## chambers270

My lease doubled but it is still way cheaper than Rayonier. It is through a local timber company but they dont own much land.

Chris


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## tail_slider3d

I beleive the excuse they used in the letter said something about...due to increased deer population, habitat improvement, and "the market".  We raise price...HUMMM...were seeing less deer than ever on our rayonier lease and they flat out ruined the 80 acres they clear cut.  No burn off or anything just rape the land and use huge machines to plow through and plant.  You honestly cant drive a four wheel drive ATV across it.  ITs so Rough and UGLY>
Just say what you mean in the letter.  
Dear Hunting Club
"Were raising the lease because we can.  If you dont pay for it someone else will.  As far as your loyalty for the past 15 years, constant upkeep, and improvements on the land that you have made out of your own pocket, we hold that in no regaurd.  The guys leasing next to you are idiots and paid way too much so now you must follow suite."


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## SBG

Rayonier may have shot themselves in the wallet...

I know a guy that works for Rayonier and he says that the lease renewals (clubs accepting the new prices) are far below what they anticipated. Half of the established clubs have not yet signed in to the website and renewed.


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## huntininmilan

tail_slider3d said:


> I beleive the excuse they used in the letter said something about...due to increased deer population, habitat improvement, and "the market".  We raise price...HUMMM...were seeing less deer than ever on our rayonier lease and they flat out ruined the 80 acres they clear cut.  No burn off or anything just rape the land and use huge machines to plow through and plant.  You honestly cant drive a four wheel drive ATV across it.  ITs so Rough and UGLY>
> Just say what you mean in the letter.
> Dear Hunting Club
> "Were raising the lease because we can.  If you dont pay for it someone else will.  As far as your loyalty for the past 15 years, constant upkeep, and improvements on the land that you have made out of your own pocket, we hold that in no regaurd.  The guys leasing next to you are idiots and paid way too much so now you must follow suite."


I know exactly what your talking about with the clear cut..I had 300 ac of trees and bottom at 6.50 an acre now we got a bargain , we got 230 ac of dirt to look at and 60-70 ac of narrow bottom that you can see thru to hunt at a bargain basement of 10.00 an ac....but looking on the bright side now no matter where we sit we can see each other alot safer that way! And the part about the guys next to you paying more so now we all have too is hitting the nail on the head and basically is what started all this crap   I've seen some replies on the board about how some of the local guys are sarcastically glad that some people on here can afford to hunt some of the places they grew up hunting but now can't afford too but what they fail to mention is that it is their very own locals that are charging what they're charging people to hunt and pricing it right out of all of our hands......


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## whitworth

*Cost of Property*

A lot of Georgia timberland changed hands in the last five years, and a lot of property has a more current land value and an increase in taxes.  
Old timber land purchased over thirty years ago was a deal for most hunters.  
Now companies that still lease land, recently purchased,  have a new and higher cost basis.  It's going to raise the lease price, almost automatically.  It's called recovering part of the investment.  

They don't care if some people don't understand.


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