# Gobbler just sat down and died!



## Gadget

Scouted this gobbler before season started, in same place I hunted one last season and didn't kill. He roosts next to a pond everyday. Yesterday morning I watched him fly out of the tree and he seemed fine, gobbled on the ground a few times then got with a hen. Went in there this morning with a friend to hunt him. Well past fly down and no gobbles, waited a while then decided to give up and go after another bird. While walking out I spotted what I thought was a hen sitting on a nest about 25yds away. Friend and I eased up closer and we started to circle around and continue on our way. The bird was in an upright position and squatted down like a hen sitting on a nest. As we got to the other side I was surprised to see the head of a gobbler. Thinking he was still alive we eased up to him and realized he was dead. Breast were still warm but wings had started to get stiff, he had been dead less than an hour. No feathers on the ground, feathers on body in perfect condition, no disturbance in the hardwood leaves, no signs of injuries. Brought him back to camp, skinned him back, breasts were in perfect shape and color, no punctures or pellets anywhere, no injuries at all could be found. Crawl had a little bit of green leaves and stems but almost empty. This is a first for me in 30yrs of turkey hunting, buddy hunting them 40yrs and we have never seen this, nor anyone else we talked to.
21.8 lbs, 11 1/4 beard, 1 1/8 spurs


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## glynr329

Wow crazy


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## oops1

Dang.. that’s odd.


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## bobbyg580

It got the Corona....


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## fullstrut

Death by Corona. Wow that's crazy


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## turkeyhuntinfool

Rick,                                                                                                                 That bird knew you were on him this morning and went ahead and gave up ! Never in 45 years hunting them have in seen anything like that! I guess when it is your time to go it is your time !                                                                                                Jim Smith


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## ADDICTED2HUNTIN

VERY odd


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## Juan De

That hen he had been with must of got his heart rate to high and he couldn’t take it.


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## kmckinnie

Sad day in the turkey woods.


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## Wayne D Davis

That's crazy indeed


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## Ruger#3

Stone cold killer done scared him to death.


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## antharper

Very odd , hopefully it wasn’t from a disease


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## Wayne D Davis

I've seen several fly off the limb before day break. Im sure if the need arises they'll fly anytime of night if startled. May have caught a limb the hard way? Like clothesline style


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## herb mcclure

Gadget said:


> Scouted this gobbler before season started, in same place I hunted one last season and didn't kill. He roosts next to a pond everyday. Yesterday morning I watched him fly out of the tree and he seemed fine, gobbled on the ground a few times then got with a hen. Went in there this morning with a friend to hunt him. Well past fly down and no gobbles, waited a while then decided to give up and go after another bird. While walking out I spotted what I thought was a hen sitting on a nest about 25yds away. Friend and I eased up closer and we started to circle around and continue on our way. The bird was in an upright position and squatted down like a hen sitting on a nest. As we got to the other side I was surprised to see the head of a gobbler. Thinking he was still alive we eased up to him and realized he was dead. Breast were still warm but wings had started to get stiff, he had been dead less than an hour. No feathers on the ground, feathers on body in perfect condition, no disturbance in the hardwood leaves, no signs of injuries. Brought him back to camp, skinned him back, breasts were in perfect shape and color, no punctures or pellets anywhere, no injuries at all could be found. Crawl had a little bit of green leaves and stems but almost empty. This is a first for me in 30yrs of turkey hunting, buddy hunting them 40yrs and we have never seen this, nor anyone else we talked to.
> 21.8 lbs, 11 1/4 beard, 1 1/8 spursView attachment 1009583


Gadget, in all my days of turkey hunting I have never known of anything like what you have shown and told about. I hope you have frozen the carcass and reported this happen to DNR. 
You wouldn't disclose the county he lived in I  bet? His color of feathers is the same as turkey's feathers were sixty years ago in some places.


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## Josh B

They don't live forever. Some times we just drop dead too.


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## Hillbilly stalker

Davey Crockett used to " grin" a bear out of a tree so........


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## spencer12

Snake bite, or limb to the face.


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## Milkman

Better than a tote getting him. Probably died of old age.


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## Gadget

You guys made some good guesses as to what happened. Snake bite is definitely a possibility, maybe he was injured flying out of the tree. Or maybe it was just a heart attack. Whatever it was he was able to walk to that spot and just squat down and die in place with no struggle. We've all seen how birds will often kick and flop when dying, there was no struggle here, not one feather was on the ground, the hardwood leaves were not disturbed at all, all his feathers were perfectly in place. He was sitting in an upright position just like a live turkey would do. Wish I would of took pictures before moving him so you could see how he was just sitting there. Definitely a once in a lifetime experience, once in many lifetime experience actually as no Turkey hunter i know has ever seen anything like this.


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## buckpasser

Hopefully just old age. Makes you wonder how many might have done that since the good old days of higher populations. 

Is there any chance someone got a poke at him the evening before?  Maybe a stray pellet to the neck?


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## FOLES55

So here is a question? Since you removed him from the woods does that count as being your harvest? 
Not that I really care and glad you shared this with us all, but if you go contacting DNR they may ask if you tagged him in the system.


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## bfriendly

That’s a cool find and I imagine there are a few ways this could happen. I saw a great blue heron crash in a tree once and he got pretty messed up. I wonder about snake bites though.


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## Gadget

We have strict rules at our place, I run the club. 3400 acres, QDM for over 20yrs. Because of the decline in the population the limit was 1 Tom for a few years but I just raised it back up to 2. So now 2 Toms per season, no jakes, only one bird per day and only allowed to shoot at 3 birds per season. We had one guy shoot at 6 birds a few years back so I had to put an end to that absurdity. All birds have to be weighed, measured and a picture taken with the club camera, same with all deer. I signed the bird out as found dead, as we do with deer; so if someone had shot and lost a deer or Turkey we would know who's it was. As the shooter if you shoot at a turkey or draw blood on a deer and can't find it, you still have to sign it out as lost on our sign out. This property is in Crawford County.

No I didn't call DNR, figured with the lock down from cornavirus they wouldn't come out to check it. I wasn't carrying a gun, I killed a gobbler opening weekend and since then quit hunting and just went out with other members as a guide.

And no there's practically zero chance someone shot at the bird previously, we hunted him the day before, morning and afternoon.


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## chrislibby88

Juan De said:


> That hen he had been with must of got his heart rate to high and he couldn’t take it.


Viagra and cocaine been the death of many a man.


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## TurkeyDreamer

My guess is that he finally gobbled his fool head off. Many have tried but he finally succeeded.


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## Gadget

herb mcclure said:


> Gadget, in all my days of turkey hunting I have never known of anything like what you have shown and told about. I hope you have frozen the carcass and reported this happen to DNR.
> You wouldn't disclose the county he lived in I  bet? His color of feathers is the same as turkey's feathers were sixty years ago in some places.



Yeah Herb Crawford county west of Macon. Believe this to be the same bird from last year and definitely the same bird that had been hunted several days this season. The day before I watched him fly out of the tree. Crazy but just like people animals die for various unknown reasons too. It's really ashame because we don't have many birds there anymore, in the 90s we had soo many birds that DNR trapped 100-200 off this place for restoration efforts.


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## Sixes

Spur to the neck from fighting


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## killerv

Should have asked his doctor if he heart was healthy enough for .....


I found one once with its head cleaned cut off, wierd...I'm assuming an owl or hawk did it.


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## spurrs and racks

Gadget said:


> Scouted this gobbler before season started, in same place I hunted one last season and didn't kill. He roosts next to a pond everyday. Yesterday morning I watched him fly out of the tree and he seemed fine, gobbled on the ground a few times then got with a hen. Went in there this morning with a friend to hunt him. Well past fly down and no gobbles, waited a while then decided to give up and go after another bird. While walking out I spotted what I thought was a hen sitting on a nest about 25yds away. Friend and I eased up closer and we started to circle around and continue on our way. The bird was in an upright position and squatted down like a hen sitting on a nest. As we got to the other side I was surprised to see the head of a gobbler. Thinking he was still alive we eased up to him and realized he was dead. Breast were still warm but wings had started to get stiff, he had been dead less than an hour. No feathers on the ground, feathers on body in perfect condition, no disturbance in the hardwood leaves, no signs of injuries. Brought him back to camp, skinned him back, breasts were in perfect shape and color, no punctures or pellets anywhere, no injuries at all could be found. Crawl had a little bit of green leaves and stems but almost empty. This is a first for me in 30yrs of turkey hunting, buddy hunting them 40yrs and we have never seen this, nor anyone else we talked to.
> 21.8 lbs, 11 1/4 beard, 1 1/8 spursView attachment 1009583


take that bird to the DNR biologist


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## Gadget

......we just found another dead gobbler this morning. Club member found him, a member who posts in here.

Need biologist phone number, just sent possum24 a pm, he's a biologist who wanted the first one. If anyone has his phone number contact via pm immediately.


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## Gadget

Here's the pic, in perfect condition. Okay so one gobbler dying of a heart attack is possible but two??......no way. This has got to be either poison or disease to have two mature gobblers die like this for no visible reason and in perfect condition.


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## NUTT

That’s terrible! Something going on.


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## Whit90

Whoa. this is interesting. Hope you find out whats going on!


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## Gadget

Been on phone constantly trying to work this, got biologist Bobby Bonds coming to pick him up now. Hopefully we can find out what's going on. This bird just dropped dead this morning out in a peach orchard, was not even stiff yet, only a few hundred yards from the first gobbler we found. They're going to do a necropsy on him.


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## Gadget

At least 3yr old, 1 1/4 inch spurs


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## turkeykirk

Wow. That ain’t good at all.


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## Gut_Pile

Unreal


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## SwampMoss

I wander if someone has put out corn?  I think I read onetime that some corn can create a toxin and kill them


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## Unicoidawg

Hmmm, that's not good. Like has been said, maybe some bad feed somewhere nearby?


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## Gadget

No feed allowed on the club during turkey season. The first bird found we checked there was no feed in his craw.


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## goshenmountainman

Do turkeys get the bird flue? Some years back I can remember birds being found dead the same way, it was bird flue I think. Don't remember much of the details and I might be totally wrong but I think I remember something like that. I know all the chicken farmers were fired up about it.


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## 1982ace

Any chemicals recently sprayed that were ingested somehow. Like your peach orchard


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## antharper

Sad and interesting , please keep us updated on what the biologist confirms !


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## twtabb

Any chicken litter being spread near by?


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## Gadget

Barry Bond came straight out and picked up the gobbler very quickly, about an hour after I talked to him. He said the gobbler was about 5yrs old. Will take a month to two months for all the testing to come back he said.
No chicken fertilizer, they have been spreading regular pelletised fertilizer. Also they have been spraying the orchards with chemicals recently, don't know which chemicals exactly yet. We have about 12 orchards, the two gobblers were found around the same orchard. They spray the orchards every year though. Also we haven't found any other types of birds or animals dead.


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## goshenmountainman

Maybe Blackhead disease? It will decimate a turkey flock pretty quick. It is prevalent in chickens and very common in pen raised quail. I read this online, as my dad is a retired DNR officer, he said it could be that and I researched it a little.


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## Thunder Head

I hate to hear this,

Im interested to know what you find out. Please update us when you can.

I think something like this happened in my area. We lost most of our turkeys in just a year or two.


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## buckpasser

Assuming it’s not a chem/fertilizer issue, these autopsy results could teach us all something about why the population has decreased so quickly in some areas. When I apply fertilizer on our plots I quickly incorporate it for fear they could burn their guts out by eating it. 

My home area went from being a 5-10 gobbler per morning area to a 0-1 area in the course of two or three years. I’ve been blaming it on “fowl pox” but that doesn’t kill as quickly as what you’re experiencing. My next guess would be that my neighbors inadvertently killed the turkeys with some tainted feed. I hope your hens are fairing better than your Toms!  Thank you for the information!


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## Gaswamp

Gadget said:


> Barry Bond came straight out and picked up the gobbler very quickly, about an hour after I talked to him. He said the gobbler was about 5yrs old. Will take a month to two months for all the testing to come back he said.
> No chicken fertilizer, they have been spreading regular pelletised fertilizer. Also they have been spraying the orchards with chemicals recently, don't know which chemicals exactly yet. We have about 12 orchards, the two gobblers were found around the same orchard. They spray the orchards every year though. Also we haven't found any other types of birds or animals dead.




Barry not hall of fame material but his kin Bobby is


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## Sixes

I watched turkeys pretty much disappear on a 9500 acre plantation on the Bleckley/Laurens county line in about a 2-3 year period. We went from seeing tons of birds every day to leaving from the trip on the 3rd day a couple of years ago because we had found 0 birds, tracks, scat, anything and it was right after a fresh rain.

And not just on the plantation but all the surrounding AG fields were devoid of turkeys for miles.  The sighting have slowly picked up the last couple of years, but I didn't get to go this spring due to the virus


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## Gadget

Thanks for replies guys. I'll keep you informed on what they find. Gobbler was taken to UGA for examination and testing. I would say the turkey on our place have declined over a 6-8 year period, so much so that I had to reduce the limit to one bird for a few years and just last year raised it back to 2 birds. Last season in 2019 was the first time since turkey hunted started in Crawford county in the 80s that not a single turkey was killed on the property. We used to take around 20 birds off the property every year on 6000 acres. This is a wide spread decline tho, all the large clubs around us are experiencing the same problem. Also seems to include the whole piedmont region and other areas of Ga as well.


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## Thunder Head

Gaswamp,
 As i have been driving all over the county turkey hunting this year. I been thinking about all the places you used to see flocks from the road. I can show you a dozen or more places that you would see big flocks in at the beginning of turkey season. Yes a couple of them could be attributed too habitat change. Most of them the turkeys just disappeared.
 Like Gadget,
  I have seen a slight increase in the number of birds i hunt the last couple of years. Im just hoping they continue to grow.


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## Gaswamp

Gadget said:


> Thanks for replies guys. I'll keep you informed on what they find. Gobbler was taken to UGA for examination and testing. I would say the turkey on our place have declined over a 6-8 year period, so much so that I had to reduce the limit to one bird for a few years and just last year raised it back to 2 birds. Last season in 2019 was the first time since turkey hunted started in Crawford county in the 80s that not a single turkey was killed on the property. We used to take around 20 birds off the property every year on 6000 acres. This is a wide spread decline tho, all the large clubs around us are experiencing the same problem. Also seems to include the whole piedmont region and other areas of Ga as well.


any habitat changes on you and surrounding properties in last 10 yrs that you think Have had adverse affect


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## saltysenior

Years ago I was witness to a major reduction of turkeys at Fisheating Creek ,Fl. ,no change at all to habitat..shortly thereafter I visited the new NWTF building in Edgefield to find an answer but they showed no interest and just about denied it happened...I've seen and heard of many observations of turkey populations all but disappearing in a short time..   .many decades later, those who should know still have not come forward with a reason for the occurrence ...???


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## Gadget

Gaswamp we have some amount of cutting and thinning almost every year or every other year as our property is managed for timber in smaller sections, we have at least 12 different sections of timber on the property. We also do more thinning than timber company land, they usually only do three thinnings of pine stands before clear cutting, we do four or five, which is better for wildlife, keeps more browse in the understory. We have a lot of food plots and the fields with either peach trees, wheat, cotton or sorghum. So our habitat is way better than average. Our deer population is excellent, we've killed our highest number of mature bucks ever recorded in the last couple years. The quail population although low has remained stable for many years. We see coveys of 10-20 quail.


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## jammeri5

What habitat destruction looks like


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## rlittlejohn

If you feed corn around there it may be aflatoxin.


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## Gadget

rlittlejohn said:


> If you feed corn around there it may be aflatoxin.




No corn, no feed allowed on the property


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## Timber1

Something that is fatal to the older members of a species.....this sounds oddly familiar.  Forget the bushel basket of peaches this year. I'm good.


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## SGaither

Curious to know what biologist find


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## Gadget

I'm still waiting, haven't heard from them.


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## BBond

The turkey was submitted to SCWDS at UGA on 4/8/2020 and they emailed me that they'd be in touch once they have the results.  As soon as the results have been given to me I will contact you.
Thanks
Bobby


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## Gadget

Thanks Bobby


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## Pilgrim

Thanks so much for keeping us updated. So sad to hear this. We used to be covered up this time of year at our place in Jones Co; haven't heard a gobble this season. Haven't seen a turkey there since about two weeks before the season.


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## wooly

Hope you have shared this story with the DNR. Or even better there is a group at UGA that does some great  investigative work on Turkeys.
I don't have there number but I'm sure it would be easy to look them up.
Congrats on the find!
?


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## Batjack

Just found this thread, and I'm very interested the the results too. I built my house on 12 acres in 1992 and it's the newest house in 3 miles in any direction so habitat loss is not a problem here. Had started blaming it on yotes showing up, and maybe fire ants attacking nest. But I used to have 3 "herds" of hens ranging between 80 and 120 birds each and 5 packs of toms 5 to 11 each. I haven't seen a hen in 4 years and only have 2 sets of toms now, one with 3 and one with 5 in them.


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## cowhornedspike

wooly said:


> Hope you have shared this story with the DNR. Or even better there is a group at UGA that does some great  investigative work on Turkeys.
> I don't have there number but I'm sure it would be easy to look them up.
> Congrats on the find!
> ?



Bobby Bond (3 posts above yours) IS the DNR turkey guy and he took it to UGA for testing.


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## Turkeytider

When the results are back, they need to be posted in a separately titled thread IMO. There should not be a single person that frequents this forum that isn`t very interested in this situation.


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## DAVE

Juan De said:


> That hen he had been with must of got his heart rate to high and he couldn’t take it.


Just like humans.


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## Turkeytider

The fact that two were found without any outward signs of trauma would make a toxin or disease the most probable culprits I would guess. Unfortunately, those would probably hit the hens too.


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## deerslayer357

Just found this thread.  Very interested to hear what they determine cause was. Please keep us posted


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## Timber1

I've hunted with you. They probably just died of old age.  Lol.


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## Gadget

Timber1 said:


> I've hunted with you. They probably just died of old age.  Lol.



Lol......yeah I'm not much of a threat these days.


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## Timber1

Gadget said:


> Lol......yeah I'm not much of a threat these days.


You should come up here. I know where a couple of birds are hanging out. Kinda tough going with all the blow downs from the storms though. Getting so green that the birds dont show til they are 10-15 yards out. Makes for some tense  man.


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## Core Lokt

No word yet?


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## Resica

West Nile Virus is apparently killing grouse up here, turkeys?


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## back_woods

Pilgrim said:


> Thanks so much for keeping us updated. So sad to hear this. We used to be covered up this time of year at our place in Jones Co; haven't heard a gobble this season. Haven't seen a turkey there since about two weeks before the season.


Where abouts is your club in jones county? There is probly what I would guess to be about 20k acres in the area around my club that the dirt roads all connect, havent seen much of a turkey in years


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## Gadget

No word yet, hope to hear soon. We killed two gobblers this season, and found these two dead. The two 1,000+ acre tracts boarder us in that area have killed 1 gobbler between them.


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## Gadget

Heading down today to hunt the last morning. Maybe I can get lucky, found one wanting to play last weekend, hopefully he's still willing and ready tomorrow morning


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## BBond

Just got the Report.

They state death is most likely Trauma. Lymphoproliferative disease and reticuloendotheliosis virus testing is pending, and results will follow in an addendum when available.


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## BBond

We are also asking followup question to the person who did the necropsy.


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## turkeyhuntinfool

What are the two diseases which the results are pending ? Does this report rule out possible cause of death by contact with any chemicals ?


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## Turkeytider

If memory serves, they found TWO turkeys on that same property that appeared to have died in essentially the same manner (?). I do remember that the OP saying that there was no obvious signs of trauma in either case. Soooo....??


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## Gadget

Thanks Bobby. Still leaves a lot of questions. I see suspected physical trauma listed as probable cause; I assume this excludes any possibility of being shot otherwise that would be stated in the report.


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## Gadget

yes we found two birds a week apart, both looked to be in perfect physical condition. The first one I personally examined, skinned the breast and neck, no signs of injury. Weighed 21.8lbs


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## BBond

From the person who performed the necropsy
"I did not see any injuries that would point to being hit with a pellet, but I also don't think I could completely rule it out."

As for the tests pending we will not know until those come back.

It's all we have to go on for now.


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## Turkeytider

Gadget said:


> yes we found two birds a week apart, both looked to be in perfect physical condition. The first one I personally examined, skinned the breast and neck, no signs of injury. Weighed 21.8lbs



I have trouble with the trauma explanation mainly because TWO birds were found with no obvious signs of trauma. I could go along a lot easier if only one had been found.


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## turkeyhuntinfool

I found the 2nd turkey which was the one examined.  I personally went over the head and neck areas before the bird was picked up by DNR and there was no signs of any kind of injury. There was no sign of bring hits by any pellets. The gobbler didn’t have a feather out of place. 
Jim Smith


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## Resica

Strange. 1 maybe, but 2. Something is going on.


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## cowhornedspike

Sooo....What can cause head trauma in an otherwise healthy bird?  Fighting with another tom?  Awful strange that it happened to two birds (at least) on the same property.


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## buckpasser

You did the right thing. I don’t buy the report though.  I’m willing to bet they died of either disease or poisoning.


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## strothershwacker

What area of the state was these birds found?


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## Gadget

There is still some tests that we're waiting for the results.
The two birds were found a week apart, both were in perfect condition. They were found about 400yds from each other.


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## Gadget

This was in Crawford County, about 30min west of Macon


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## Jeff Raines

I usually raise a couple turkeys for meat every year.Caught one in my sweet taters one time and whopped it on the butt with a stick,it died on the spot.


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## spencer12

Gadget said:


> This was in Crawford County, about 30min west of Macon


You said they were near pecan orchards, correct?


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## antharper

spencer12 said:


> You said they were near pecan orchards, correct?


Peach orchard I think


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## Resica

They said trauma. Any photo evidence of trauma or was it just speculation? Thanks.


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## jiminbogart

Dang. Just read a couple moths worth of posts. I was hoping for a resolution. Not the kind of mystery I like.


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## Resica

Bump


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## Turkeytider

I don`t what it was, but I`d bet the farm the same thing killed those two birds. 400 yards apart? Not a mark on either? Please.


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## Resica

Bump.


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## strothershwacker

Sounds like disease to me!!


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## Sautee Ridgerunner

Gobblers regularly die of aortic rupture


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## Gadget

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Gobblers regularly die of aortic rupture




Hmmm.....hadn't heard that theory.


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## Turkeytider

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Gobblers regularly die of aortic rupture



Very interesting, particularly when you consider two were involved on the same property, in a relatively compressed time frame, roughly 400 yards apart. A necropsy should find that I would think.


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## Resica

Ever hear why those gobblers died?


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## Taco4x4

I keep checking back here once a month or so myself to read what killed them. O well check back next month.


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## Gadget

No. Actually no one ever contacted me with the final report, they were waiting for some more test results to come in last I heard. The only info I got on results was what they posted in this thread where they say the birds died from unspecified trauma.

We haven't found any other dead turkey since these two gobblers. This property used to have an excellent population, infact twice the DNR came on to our property to trap and relocate turkey to other areas of the state. Now the population is low, very low compared to what it was.


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## Para Bellum

Bird knew what the rest of this year was gonna be like and said heck with it.


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## saltysenior

It is disturbing that a occurrence like this still does not have a final answer....many turkey populations that declined are documented in this thread,including the OP's and mine (#54).....and this occurrence has taken place in most Eastern states....with 2 fresh,dead turkeys , those in the know should have an answer.....
    by the way, isn't strange a adult goggler weighs in at 9.6 lbs ??


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## Turkeytider

saltysenior said:


> It is disturbing that a occurrence like this still does not have a final answer....many turkey populations that declined are documented in this thread,including the OP's and mine (#54).....and this occurrence has taken place in most Eastern states....with 2 fresh,dead turkeys , those in the know should have an answer.....
> by the way, isn't strange a adult goggler weighs in at* 9.6 lbs ?*?



Got to be a misprint. Left out a 1, I imagine


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## Gadget

Turkeytider said:


> Got to be a misprint. Left out a 1, I imagine



Neither bird weighed 9.6, would be 19.6, the other was  21.8, Both birds were very healthy looking and weight was normal. Our heaviest birds ever recorded are up into 23lbs.


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## Gadget

With the decline in the Turkey population and impending rules changes thought this was important to bump.

We haven't found any dead turkey so far this year. I changed the rule back to a two bird limit, had it set for 1 bird for a couple years trying to give the birds a break and increase the population. Also have it set for one bird per day and no jakes are allowed except as a first gobbler. Looks like our rules will be state rules next year too.

We never really got an answer as to what killed these big healthy gobblers. All we were told is unknown trauma.


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## Turkeytider

Gadget said:


> With the decline in the Turkey population and impending rules changes thought this was important to bump.
> 
> We haven't found any dead turkey so far this year. I changed the rule back to a two bird limit, had it set for 1 bird for a couple years trying to give the birds a break and increase the population. Also have it set for one bird per day and no jakes are allowed except as a first gobbler. Looks like our rules will be state rules next year too.
> 
> We never really got an answer as to what killed these big healthy gobblers. All we were told is unknown trauma.



Thanks for the update, Gadget. It is indeed important. We’re left to sheer speculation, but the deaths of those two birds under the circumstances you describe not being related seems improbable to me in the extreme.


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## Dupree

Interesting thread.
There was a story in Gon some years ago about some guys hunting and a gobbler came flying through the woods at first light (likely bumped by other hunters on the wma) and it fell to the ground dead. Suspected he ran into a limb And broke his neck/ brain trauma. The odds of something like this happening 400 yards apart within a week are nearly impossible imo.


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## Turkeytider

Dupree said:


> Interesting thread.
> There was a story in Gon some years ago about some guys hunting and a gobbler came flying through the woods at first light (likely bumped by other hunters on the wma) and it fell to the ground dead. Suspected he ran into a limb And broke his neck/ brain trauma. The odds of something like this happening 400 yards apart within a week are nearly impossible imo.



Agree. Again, sheer speculation and opinion, but Based on description I think the same thing( poison /toxin/ disease ) killed both birds. The only thing that gives me cause for pause is that Gadget and his crew didn’t find more dead birds. Of course, that doesn’t mean that they weren’t there somewhere.


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## albrown100

Yes ,I have seen some crazy stuff in my 30 yrs of chasing turkeys, but I cant say I have ever saw anything like that !!


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## cowhornedspike

With all the concern about the decline in turkeys here and elsewhere, even to the point of guessing/saying the hunters are the cause and cutting out some of the season, seems that the state really dropped the ball on this one.  They won't get many golden opportunities like this to study a fresh dead bird.  The conclusion is unacceptable IMO.


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## buckpasser

cowhornedspike said:


> With all the concern about the decline in turkeys here and elsewhere, even to the point of guessing/saying the hunters are the cause and cutting out some of the season, seems that the state really dropped the ball on this one.  They won't get many golden opportunities like this to study a fresh dead bird.  The conclusion is unacceptable IMO.



Absolutely agree!  There is little chance that the gobblers presented died via trauma. It’d be nice to know the true cause. As you said, there is so much going on to remedy a problem that isn’t even diagnosed. 

“You say your check engine light is on?  Okay, we’re gonna suggest not driving your car, also we might just go ahead and replace your entire drivetrain.”


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## Turkeytider

cowhornedspike said:


> With all the concern about the decline in turkeys here and elsewhere, even to the point of guessing/saying the hunters are the cause and cutting out some of the season, seems that the state really dropped the ball on this one.  They won't get many golden opportunities like this to study a fresh dead bird.  The conclusion is unacceptable IMO.


It would indeed be interesting to know ( we never will in all likelihood) the details and the depth to which the state went to determine the cause of death of those two birds in that unusual circumstance. As stated, there’s lots of speculation as to causation of the decline of turkey populations. It MAY have been a golden opportunity missed , although on a very tiny sample, to lend some credence to at least one of the potential causes. At least it might have served to stimulate focused research.


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## Resica

Gadget said:


> With the decline in the Turkey population and impending rules changes thought this was important to bump.
> 
> We haven't found any dead turkey so far this year. I changed the rule back to a two bird limit, had it set for 1 bird for a couple years trying to give the birds a break and increase the population. Also have it set for one bird per day and no jakes are allowed except as a first gobbler. Looks like our rules will be state rules next year too.
> 
> We never really got an answer as to what killed these big healthy gobblers. All we were told is unknown trauma.


Thanks Gadget!


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## Resica

cowhornedspike said:


> With all the concern about the decline in turkeys here and elsewhere, even to the point of guessing/saying the hunters are the cause and cutting out some of the season, seems that the state really dropped the ball on this one.  They won't get many golden opportunities like this to study a fresh dead bird.  The conclusion is unacceptable IMO.


Agree with you 100%! Unspecified trauma, come on. Ridiculous.


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## Resica

Dang. What a perfect time for a necropsy and letting you now the results. Unacceptable to me and you. You believe 2 gob died that close in time together from unspecified trauma. I don't.


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## Gadget

Resica said:


> Dang. What a perfect time for a necropsy and letting you now the results. Unacceptable to me and you. You believe 2 gob died that close in time together from unspecified trauma. I don't.



Hey Resica,
Nice to see people this concerned about our Wild Turkey. I don't have much more info to add than what's already been said. There may have been some politics involved here, I'm not sure it's only speculation as it seems politics infiltrates everything these days. I don't have enough info to say someone dropped the ball or information was withheld, it's definitely possible; but also there's a lot that medical science doesn't know so I can see them not having any real findings too.
I manage 3,500 acres, used to have around 6,000. Twice the state was given permission to trap turkey off this property to repopulate other parts of the state, so the flock was excellent in those days. I've reduced our limit to one gobbler per season, that's the most I can do from a management perspective, we already have great habitat. We found no dead turkey this year, not even signs of predation which we usually see some of that too. The population seems to be decreasing in many areas of the southeast so this is a widespread problem with many factors involved. I wish we found something that could be used to help turkey make a comeback! I tried, if we find another I'll call the biologist and report it again but I've kinda lost hope.


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## Resica

Gadget said:


> Hey Resica,
> Nice to see people this concerned about our Wild Turkey. I don't have much more info to add than what's already been said. There may have been some politics involved here, I'm not sure it's only speculation as it seems politics infiltrates everything these days. I don't have enough info to say someone dropped the ball or information was withheld, it's definitely possible; but also there's a lot that medical science doesn't know so I can see them not having any real findings too.
> I manage 3,500 acres, used to have around 6,000. Twice the state was given permission to trap turkey off this property to repopulate other parts of the state, so the flock was excellent in those days. I've reduced our limit to one gobbler per season, that's the most I can do from a management perspective, we already have great habitat. We found no dead turkey this year, not even signs of predation which we usually see some of that too. The population seems to be decreasing in many areas of the southeast so this is a widespread problem with many factors involved. I wish we found something that could be used to help turkey make a comeback! I tried, if we find another I'll call the biologist and report it again but I've kinda lost hope.



Thanks Gadget. I appreciate your reply. We are all frustrated with the bird decline whether it's on a club in Georgia or on state land in Pennsylvania. I hope we'll find a positive outcome sometime soon.


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## Turkeytider

“ Unspecified trauma “ sounds a lot like code for , “ We haven’t the faintest idea. “ Not accusing anyone mind you, but I can’t help hoping that it wasn’t a case of just giving them a very cursory examination.


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## antharper

Turkeytider said:


> “ Unspecified trauma “ sounds a lot like code for , “ We haven’t the faintest idea. “ Not accusing anyone mind you, but I can’t help hoping that it wasn’t a case of just giving them a very cursory examination.


Farmers down in that area have a lot of pull ! ? hush hush if you understand , I’m not reading back through all of the replies but if I remember it was near peach orchards


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## spencer12

antharper said:


> Farmers down in that area have a lot of pull ! ? hush hush if you understand , I’m not reading back through all of the replies but if I remember it was near peach orchards


What do they fertilize with?


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## antharper

spencer12 said:


> What do they fertilize with?


Not only fertilize , all types of poison for insects. And I’m not sure what kind of fertilizer they use , I wouldn’t think it would be chicken fertilizer . And hopefully it was just random , I’m sure they have been doing the same things for years . The op said the area was once very populated with turkey


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