# Accura v2 vs Encore



## spydermon

Between the two, which would you consider the better m/l?  I'm looking to purchase one of the other and looking for opinions.  Whis is easiest to clean?  Which has the best bbl for accuracy.


----------



## one hogman

Tough question , a lot will be personal preference on this, Accuracy will vary from gun to gun AND a lot will depend on your load,Cleaning will be very close to equal on these two guns,  I own Encores and CVAs with Bergara barrels but not the Accura, mostly it will come down to fit, finish and how much you want to pay, you won't go wrong with either one.


----------



## BarnesAddict

T/C Encore Pro Hunter, hands down IMO.


----------



## Lilly001

I have an encore and I have had issues with residue buildup behind the breach around the firing pin. Not hard to clean, but an issue.
Otherwise an excellent, accurate gun.


----------



## BarnesAddict

Lilly001 said:


> I have an encore and I have had issues with residue buildup behind the breach around the firing pin. Not hard to clean, but an issue.
> Otherwise an excellent, accurate gun.



Might try a WIN 209 primer, which is slightly longer and seats deeper in the primer pocket of the breech plug.

On the other hand, there may be a slight head space issue, easily taken care of and not use Teflon tape.

Shims are sold to help with rifles that may have that issue to correct it from Mike Bellm.


----------



## FrontierGander

Accura, fits better, shoots both conical and sabot projects, a better trigger and just a very simple muzzy to get down to business with.


----------



## dwinsor

I have both guns, love them both, I have done very little modifying to them and they both shoot about the same.  I have heard a lot of people say they had to do a lot of modifications to the T/C encore too get it to shoot right, I haven't had any problem myself.  That being said I would not buy another PRO Hunter.  I would not like to chance getting a lemon.


----------



## BarnesAddict

dwinsor said:


> I have both guns, love them both, I have done very little modifying to them and they both shoot about the same.  I have heard a lot of people say they had to do a lot of modifications to the T/C encore too get it to shoot right, I haven't had any problem myself.  That being said I would not buy another PRO Hunter.  I would not like to chance getting a lemon.



Care to elaborate on all the "lot of modifications" and how much those modifications cost?


----------



## Deerhead

I can’t review the TC nor will I say anything bad about them. However I will comment about CVA.  The CVA has an excellent trigger.  The Bergara barrels are some of the best and most accurate product rifle barrels on the market today “IMO”.  The quality, fit and finish and attention to detail is second to non.  Using BH209 I constantly get 1 MOA with a 245gn Powerbelt bullet.  Several of my friends bought CVA’s after seeing how accurate and easy to clean mine was.


----------



## dwinsor

Some people cut off the QLA of the barrel to try to get it to shoot sabots and full bore projectiles.  Some people replace their T/C Barrels with Bergara barrels made for the T/C encore pro hunter, by BPI.

Some people have to do trigger jobs because the trigger pull is crappy 

Some people have to get larger hinge pins because there is slop in the pin fit, which causes the barrel to move and the bullets to fly.

Some people have to shim the firing pin bushing to take care of blow by.

I don't know what the proper name is but for the thing that locks the gun closed some people put a stronger Bellum spring in place of the T/C spring.

Some people put a stronger spring on the hammer.

I don't know if I got them all or not, but this is what I can remember.  I have the T/C Pro Hunter, I have never had to do any of these things to my gun.  I also have a CVA Accura V2, the only thing I had to do to it, was put a 4.95 shim kit in to bring the firing pin bushing out to flush with the breech face.

The CVA Accura V2 and the Pro Hunter will shoot sub 1" groups to 1 1/2" groups, depending on the bullet and sabot I use.  They are both good guns, but I just could not consider another T/C gun with some of the nightmares I have heard on the forums.

It seemed like every time I turned around someone was having a problem with the T/C Pro Hunter not being able to pattern at 100 yards or not being able to shoot full bore projectiles.

I am not bashing T/C or the Pro Hunter I love my Pro Hunter I have  had 1 problem with it and that was the front thimble came off for the ramrod and I had to get another one from T/C.  I wouldn't sell my T/C for anything but I would not buy another one either.

Pesonally I don't think anyone should have to make these types of changes on a new gun, I don't care what the cost is.

I don't know what the cost for these modifications would be as I have never needed them.


----------



## BarnesAddict

dwinsor said:


> Some people cut off the QLA of the barrel to try to get it to shoot sabots and full bore projectiles.  Some people replace their T/C Barrels with Bergara barrels made for the T/C encore pro hunter, by BPI.  I've shot just about all of the rifle brands, short of the CVA Apex.  I've owned multiple Encore rifles since they hit the market in "97".  Personally, I've never replaced a factory barrel and have never had one that wouldn't shoot and group.  What I have had, is many shooters come here shooting their Encore platform rifles and complaining about them not shooting accurately.  Any problems that they thought they had, were ALWAYS resolved prior to them leaving.  Its the easiest of all break open frames to work on and actually the only one relatively easy for most muzzleloader capabilities.  I've had two (2) Encore shooters who replaced pitted barrels, which was from their lack of proper cleaning, with Bergara replacements.  They shoot no better than other factory T/C barrels.  Some rifles shoot conicals required the QLA to be removed.  However most shooters, where legal, shoot saboted bullets.
> 
> Some people have to do trigger jobs because the trigger pull is crappy  *Most shooters of the Encore platform rifles never have the need to change trigger springs, which is extremely easy if one can follow directions.  Very few shooters are shooting targets enough to want or need a 2# or less trigger.  However, if one wants a light weight trigger pull, its easily obtained with a quality spring.*
> 
> Some people have to get larger hinge pins because there is slop in the pin fit, which causes the barrel to move and the bullets to fly.  I highly recommend that you check out other manufacturer's rifles.  The CVA Apex, CVA's to of the line rifle, has problems with some rifles and larger hinge pins are also being made for those rifles.  Two Redemptions I've handled locally have barrels that will move at least 3/16" when closed.  Regardless rather its a T/C, CVA or any other rifle, ALL break open rifles are prone to loose hinge pins.
> 
> Some people have to shim the firing pin bushing to take care of blow by.  This is absolutely correct but, I'm not aware of any that have needed head space shimming.  However, the proper shim behind the breech will permanently eliminate that issue.  However with rifles from other manufacturers, they're having to use Teflon tape on the breech plugs to resolve the issues or, search for longer primers.
> 
> I don't know what the proper name is but for the thing that locks the gun closed some people put a stronger Bellum spring in place of the T/C spring.  This is another issue unnecessary for most shooters.  However those who are shooting LONG RANGE and for the smallest groups possible, they're the ones who will change the locking bolt spring to a HD spring.
> 
> Some people put a stronger spring on the hammer.  Yes they do.  There's a reason for removing the 30# factory spring and installing either the 44# or 51# springs.  Its to reduce the lock time.  Again, those wishing for LONG RANGE tight groups, will change them.  Check any other manufacturer's break open hammer, then check an Encore with a 44 or 51# hammer and you'll immediately notice the difference and why.
> 
> I don't know if I got them all or not, but this is what I can remember.  I have the T/C Pro Hunter, I have never had to do any of these things to my gun.  I also have a CVA Accura V2, the only thing I had to do to it, was put a 4.95 shim kit in to bring the firing pin bushing out to flush with the breech face.
> 
> The CVA Accura V2 and the Pro Hunter will shoot sub 1" groups to 1 1/2" groups, depending on the bullet and sabot I use.  They are both good guns, but I just could not consider another T/C gun with some of the nightmares I have heard on the forums.
> It seemed like every time I turned around someone was having a problem with the T/C Pro Hunter not being able to pattern at 100 yards or not being able to shoot full bore projectiles.
> I am not bashing T/C or the Pro Hunter I love my Pro Hunter I have  had 1 problem with it and that was the front thimble came off for the ramrod and I had to get another one from T/C.  I wouldn't sell my T/C for anything but I would not buy another one either.
> 
> Pesonally I don't think anyone should have to make these types of changes on a new gun, I don't care what the cost is.
> 
> I don't know what the cost for these modifications would be as I have never needed them.



I'm not bashing CVA or any other rifle either.  IF I purchased a CVA rifle today, it would only be the Apex, a fine accurate rifle.  The changes that you mention in your post, are changes that Encore platform shooters can make to improve their groups, especially when shooting longer ranges beyond 100yds.  Those shooters who wish for less than MOA at 200yds are the most likely to make the changes you mentioned.

All the frame modifications you mentioned, can be done for approximately $35.  That $35 in parts will make the owner wonder if he/she was returned their original rifle back.  Again, those who wish to shoot very accurately and at long range, those are the shooters that make those changes.  For most shooters, those accuracy modifications are never or not needed.

I wish the OP great luck with what ever muzzleloader or manufacturer he purchases.


----------



## dwinsor

If thompson center would make those changes before they sold the guns it would probably cost 12.00 or so maybe less.  You would think T/C would want to have a better gun for little or nothing for their customers.

I know people have cut of the QLA because one individual sent his gun back as it would not shoot full bore bullets as he hunted where you could not use sabots.  He said T/C sent his gun back with a target with a sabot pattern on it.  He said T/C told him The Encore was designed to shoot sabots.  He chose to have the QLA cut off and said his gun shoots good now.  I doubt he will ever buy another T/C.

I have 2 traditional guns I bought in 1984 & 1985, T/C said they don't make the guns anymore, and don't have parts anymore so they could not warrant them anymore.  What don't they understand about Lifetime warranties.  If S&W does T/C in are they going to take over the Lifetime Warranty commitment of T/C.

With S&W owning T/C I would say T/C is a day to day prospect.  S&W has already shaved them pretty hard as it is.

The T/C was not designed to be a long range gun then, so people are changing all this stuff for the encore to be a long range shooter.  Many people are changing stuff just to try to get a good huntable 100 yard Group.

In any event until the past few years I have only bought T/C guns, from what I have experienced, what I have seen and what I have heard I will never buy a T/C gun again.  Their customer service is going to pot, I don't know anyone so when I order parts I have to deal with the T/C Rep selling the parts, It is a slow experience.

I like my T/C Pro Hunter but I have a CVA Accura V2 that will shoot Side by side for 1/2 the price.  IMO the CVA is as good of a gun as the Pro Hunter.  CVA Customer service is 100% for the Customer.
If T/C is not careful S&W might just drop them.

I would not sell my pro hunter but I would not buy another one.


----------



## BarnesAddict

Just think how much better your Pro Hunter would group with the modifications.....

Muzzleloading is one of the fastest shooting/hunting sports, short of the AR fantasy going on.  In states where they have multiple firearm seasons, including a designated muzzleloader season, up to 24% of whitetail hunters use the muzzleloader as their primary hunting rifle.  Many in centerfire zones are now using muzzleloaders and leaving their CF in the safe.

With that, many shooters opting for long range capabilities are modifying their rifles the best way possible.  Its very common now for shooters to be harvesting whitetails in excess of 200yds with production rifles in farm country.  Although many of the rifles are capable, many shooters are not.

The hinge pin issue, the largest contributor to accuracy loss in ALL break open rifles, will last as long as break open rifles are produced and regardless of manufacturer.  Thus the larger hinge pins are being made for the CVA Apex.

It depends on exactly what a shooter/hunter wants or needs.  If you're looking for a rifle capable of 1" 100yd groups, just about all of those made today will do that.  On the other hand, if a shooter/hunter needs a longer range rifle, IMO it would be best to consider rifles that can have significant ability to improve "out of the box" LONG rang accuracy and groups.  Also that the modifications can be completed by the owner at very little cost, vs a gunsmith and higher costs.

Maybe the OP should be looking at the new Remington....


----------



## dwinsor

I hear you and its all good information.

But My CVA Accura V2 and T/C Pro Hunter right out of the box have sub 1" groups, at 100 yards, I just call them 3 shots in one hole.  I don't see why anyone that purchases either one of these rifles should not expect the same kind of accuracy, given the shooter can shoot.

Since 1984 I have carried only a Muzzleloader in both Modern gun season and Muzzleloader season.  Actually I have never owned a center fire rifle.  Any hunting of deer or larger game is done with a muzzleloader.  I had to learn about 1st shot accuracy quick and didn't have anyone to ask.

As stated earlier many people that have the T/C Pro Hunter and some other T/C rifles have issues of what bullets it will shoot and even trying to get 100 yard huntable groups, by that I mean 100 yards with about 1 1/2" groups.  This is not acceptable.

I don't think it should be up to the people who purchase a gun to modify a new gun until it will shoot 100 yard acceptable groups.  A gun with a lifetime warranty should be capable of at least 1 1/2" groups at 100 yard, for as much as the Pro Hunter Cost I would expect at least 1" myself.  I got better than that with my Pro Hunter and my Accura V2.  I have had no hinge pin issues with either gun, the accura does have a better trigger on it.


----------



## FrontierGander

CVA Optima Northwest - 50 yards - first 2 shots out of the box are the lowest, next two are with adjustment. OPEN SIGHTS, 'nuff said!


----------



## dwinsor

That is good shooting with iron sights, I thought your eyes were giving you trouble, in any event it doesn't look like it.  Going to put the hurt on something with that group.  Is that sabot or full bore bullet, what type of bullet did you use.  Nuff said!


----------



## FrontierGander

300 grain Powerbelt Aerolite.

No eye troubles here other than normal wear and tear. Been shooting my 58cal Hawken a lot lately, getting ready to take her on a bear hunt on the 16th this month.

On the bags @ 150





Off the shooting sticks at 150


----------



## BarnesAddict

FrontierGander said:


> CVA Optima Northwest - 50 yards - first 2 shots out of the box are the lowest, next two are with adjustment. OPEN SIGHTS, 'nuff said!



Not bad.

How about a T/C Pro Hunter at 200yds?
75grs WEIGHT BH209 - Barnes 250gr TMZ - CCI209M primers


----------



## FrontierGander

not bad but how about an open sight traditional muzzleloader with simple and cheap patched round ball at 150 and open sights? 





thats 4 shots, not 3


----------



## BarnesAddict

FrontierGander said:


> not bad but how about an open sight traditional muzzleloader with simple and cheap patched round ball at 150 and open sights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats 4 shots, not 3



How about 400 yards with a muzzleloader?  5 shots not 4


----------



## FrontierGander

take the scope off, use patched round balls and real black powder. Report back with a 100 yard target.

How's that rifle of yours shoot with blackhorn209? That Optima shoots it superbly, with noooo troubles now or down the road.


----------



## BarnesAddict

FrontierGander said:


> take the scope off, use patched round balls and real black powder. Report back with a 100 yard target.
> 
> How's that rifle of yours shoot with blackhorn209? That Optima shoots it superbly, with noooo troubles now or down the road.



I'd have to guess, as the rifle has no open sights.  As far as BH209 and an Ultimate is concerned, it will shoot it but, the rifle isn't designed for it.  One thing you nor anyone else will believe, BH209 is *FILTHY* when shot using loads higher than those capable in production rifles.  No matter what RW states, you won't clean BH with just two patches.  Not and have the rifle clean.  BH plugs up the muzzlebrake.  Also, when shooting loads not meant for production muzzleloaders, it must be swabbed between shots to maintain accuracy.  A very well known fact by shooters who shoot for accuracy while using heavy charges of BH209.

I just sold two old T/C Hawken rifles, one to a collector/investor in Dallas, a .50 and another to a guy in Penn., a .54.  BOTH buyers were given a money back guarantee if the rifle wasn't what they wanted.  You couldn't pry them away from them now.  

Boy I sure would like to be young like you again.  I shot this target, the only target, with 2f, .490 ball and .015" patch, just prior to selling the .50.  Also while being so near sighted I couldn't see the open sights clearly, plus cataracts, being 1.5 steps from being legally blind in my shooting eye and, just prior to four (4) eye surgeries, which included detached and torn retinas and replacement of cloudy vitreous fluid in both eyes.

Ya got nothing on this old timer........ 





We all love shoot'n the muzz and many of us are brand specific.  I just love shoot'n the darn things.  Just an FYI to all you youngsters......... take care of those eyes, wear shooting glasses EVERY time you shoot.  Trust an old timer, age will catch up to you too.


----------



## spydermon

After a bit of reading, I see that a new breech plug is needed in the accura v2 to shoot the loose BH 209.  Where could I find one?  I love the BH powder and would like to shoot it.

Also I have the Barnes bullets.  I'm only shooting deer and won't shoot over 200 yards....likely not not far.  That said, what bullet design may meet my needs?   I don't want one that will pencil hole in and out and not mushroom.  I'd like max performance with a larger exit hole that can be accurate as well.

I'm starting to lean towards the CVA...I've found one with a standard stock I'm going to get I think.  Do they sell a thumbhole stock separate?  I liked the way it felt, but now can't find a gun with it?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but is the v2 as accessorized as the encore?  Can you swap barrels on it?  It looks as if you could, but haven't seen near the aftermarket world for it as the encore


----------



## BarnesAddict

spydermon said:


> After a bit of reading, I see that a new breech plug is needed in the accura v2 to shoot the loose BH 209.  Where could I find one?  I love the BH powder and would like to shoot it.
> Also I have the Barnes bullets.  I'm only shooting deer and won't shoot over 200 yards....likely not not far.  That said, what bullet design may meet my needs?   I don't want one that will pencil hole in and out and not mushroom.  I'd like max performance with a larger exit hole that can be accurate as well.
> I'm starting to lean towards the CVA...I've found one with a standard stock I'm going to get I think.  Do they sell a thumbhole stock separate?  I liked the way it felt, but now can't find a gun with it?
> Also, forgive my ignorance, but is the v2 as accessorized as the encore?  Can you swap barrels on it?  It looks as if you could, but haven't seen near the aftermarket world for it as the encore



You can purchase compatible breech plugs to shoot BH209 from Western for some CVA rifles.  ALL T/C rifles come with breech plugs already compatible.

It is hard to beat the things that can be done to Encore platform rifles, rather modifying the frame or swapping barrels.  I'm not sure that the V2 swaps barrels.....

Barnes bullets are a premium bullet and they don't fail to expand.  However the Spitfire MZ bullet is better used at higher velocities.  Its smaller opening in the hollow point may not expand properly at lower velocities.  The Expander is the fastest opening bullet in the Barnes line up.  The large opening expands on contact, opens up and drives through.  The TMZ or T-EZ bullets with the polymer tip are excellent bullets for shooting beyond 100yds.  Barnes are the only bullets I shoot from my production muzzleloaders.  Barnes bullets have harvested very close to 300 whitetails for me in the U.S. and Canada.

The T-EZ bullets load best in most CVA rifles.

A Barnes 250gr TMZ bullet:





Barnes Expanders:






This Barnes 250gr TMZ bullet was shot into the chest of a whitetail at approximately 100yds by a friend of mine.  The bullet traveled the full length of the deer and stopped just under the hide on a rear quarter.  Broadside shot bullets are rarely found, as they pass through......





Yes, they expand.  They retain 100% of their weight, minus the polymer tip.


----------



## dwinsor

Barns Addict is spot on about the TEZ, I was at the range yesterday and the guy shooting next to me had a T/C FX.  He didn't know about drill bits for the breech plug, so I let him use mine.  I was shooting CVA so I had one for it.  Before he left he gave me 3 TEZ 250 grain to shoot to see how I liked them.  I shot them and was impressed, I would not buy them due to cost.  I ordered 30 of them when I got home.


----------



## BarnesAddict

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/muzzleloader/muzzleloader-accuracy/


----------



## spydermon

I've got 250gr expander mz now and also a new pack of etc shockwaves that I need to take back..heard they aren't the best option.  My expanders have the black cup


----------



## dwinsor

BarnesAddict would the TEZ 250 grain expand well with 110 grains of BH 209.  Aslo the V2 does no change barrels.


----------



## BarnesAddict

dwinsor said:


> BarnesAddict would the TEZ 250 grain expand well with 110 grains of BH 209.  Aslo the V2 does no change barrels.



ABSOLUTELY and perfect.  The only weight loss you'll have is the polymer tip.  Play the video on the site.  The bullets all perform like that.  Its a premium bullet and many shooters don't like spending the money on them but, you get what you pay for.

The bullet in my avatar is a TMZ (boattail) and the only difference in that and the T-EZ is the flat base

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/muzzleloader/spit-fire-t-ez/


----------



## f250superduty

encore for sure. you can put a 308 barrel on there for deer season and when you go to midwest a slug barrel. killed the one in my avatar in ohio.


----------



## spydermon

Where can I get a breech plug for a CVA accura for the BH 209?


----------



## spydermon

Also can you buy thumbjole stocks for them anywhere?  I picked up an accurate, but want the thumbhole stock now and can't seem to find one anywhere but on a whole gun


----------



## dwinsor

Spydermon here is one breech plug for BH 209:        https://www.westernpowders.com/blackhorn209

Here is the CVA version for BH 209:    http://www.cva.com/CVA-store.php?shop=Black Horn QR Breech Plugs#l

I have used the CVA plug and have not had any problems, cost about $20.00,      The Western Powder Breech Plug is $40.00

The CVA Breech plug uses a 1/8" drill bit, put electrical tape around the shank of the bit until you can firmly grip the bit, use the drill bit in the flash channel every 3 to 6 shots.

The Western Powders breech plug comes with the proper size drill bit.

Also from your post on the 1st page, The Accura V2 Cannot interchange barrels.  Unless it is an identical barrel from another identical Accura V2 or a identical barrel from CVA

The only place that I would think you could buy a stock like the one you want is from CVA


----------

