# The "Spit Patch"



## DaddyPaul (Sep 3, 2005)

I headed out to the range this morning with one of my Encores in its 209x50 scoped configuration to sight it in.  I got there about 7:30 before it got too hot (82 degrees).  My first load was two 50 grain pellets of 777 with a 250 grain T/C Shockwave on top.  After a few sighting shots I proceeded to fire a three shot group at 100 yards.  They flew into an honest 1.25" group.  After repeating this for a group that measured just under 1.50"s I stepped up to three 50 grain pellets with the same bullets.  These impacted about 5 inches higher than the other load so I made a slight adjustment to the scope.  I then proceeded to fire two back to back 1.50" groups.  Needless to say I was pretty tickled to get this kind of accuracy with a muzzleloader.  One thing that I wanted to pass along to some of you that may be starting out with muzzleloaders is to use a "spit patch" between every shot at the range.  I shoot a round and then take a pre-soaked patch (T/C's No. 13 bore cleaner) and swab the barrel out.  I follow this with a clean, dry patch and shoot again.  I shot 23 times this morning and never once had to put any extra pressure on the ramrod.  Every bullet seated just as easily as the first.  If you have shot a muzzleloader much at the range without spit patching you probably noticed that the more you shoot the harder it is to seat the bullets.  A lot of this is due to fouling in your barrel and a ring of crud that builds up right ahead of your breech plug.  Spit patching is the only way that I can truly evaluate the grouping of my ML as the barrel is as close to the same every shot as you can get without completely cleaning between every shot.  By using the spit patch not only will you get consistent barrel conditions which leads to better shooting your clean up time after you are done is reduced as well.  I soaked my breech plug in some soapy water and ran two pre-soaked patches through the barrel and it was clean as a whistle.  A little Bore Butter and she is ready for work again.  Sorry for the long read but I figured it might help somebody out this season.


----------



## Just 1 More (Sep 3, 2005)

Great info


----------



## leoparddog (Sep 6, 2005)

I agree DaddyPaul - When at the range I also use a spit patch.  But mine is really wetted with spit.  When I've shot at rondevous using my sidelock a spit patch is the best deal.  I just hold 2-4 patches in my cheek like chewing tobacco and use them for between shot wiping and for patching the lead ball.

Works like a charm.


----------



## ufg8r93 (Sep 6, 2005)

*"Spit patch"*

How do you keep the patch from shoving all the crud back into your breech plug when you run the barrel thru with it?


----------



## DaddyPaul (Sep 6, 2005)

I guess the solvent breaks it down and removes it?  The spit patch comes out very, very black and the dry patch afterwards is a little cleaner.  You can actually feel the "crud ring" when you hit it with the spit patch and sometimes it is hard to pull the ramrod back out of the barrel but once you bust it up you can continue to swab a few times and the next bullet will seat easily.  Just try to do the same thing every shot to ensure that the condition of the bore is constant from shot to shot.  On a side note when I pulled the breech plug after 23 shots it was no dirtier than usual and the barrel cleaning was a lot easier.


----------



## fishdog (Sep 6, 2005)

This is important when target shooting. It is a good idea to invest in a patch worm. It is just a matter of time before you are going to loose one in the barrel.


----------



## SouthPaw Draw (Sep 27, 2005)

How often to do guys remove the breech plug and clean it?
When you push the patch down the barrel to clean it or you using the ramrod or a cleaning rod? Bought a CVA .50 this year and I'm new to the in-line guns.


----------



## SPITCAN (Sep 27, 2005)

I have a CVA .50 also..I clean mine after every other hunt. It usually does'nt need it but I've got into the habit of it. It's a nice gun to be on the lower cost end. It appears to be better quality than some of the more expensive ones!


----------



## DaddyPaul (Sep 27, 2005)

Southpaw,
I clean my breech plug after every range session along with the gun itself.  I use my regualr ram rod with an extended jag on it for swabbing the barrel at the range.


----------



## SouthPaw Draw (Sep 29, 2005)

Went and bought a jag and some spit patches yesterday, going down to the range to shoot it this weekend. Also traded out the 200 gr. T/C Shocks for the 250 gr. Hope to get a good grouping, I think I'll start off with 100 grains of triple 7 and see how it does.


----------



## raghorn (Sep 29, 2005)

*Daddypaul*

Are you finding that the 777 burns cleaner than pyrodex? I've heard it does and that you get slightly higher velocities with 777 than an equal charge of pyrodex.


----------



## duckbill (Sep 30, 2005)

raghorn said:
			
		

> Are you finding that the 777 burns cleaner than pyrodex? I've heard it does and that you get slightly higher velosities with 777 than an equal charge of pyrodex.




MUCH cleaner  .  I believe the 777 is faster than Pyro, but my Chronograph bit the dust before I got a chance to prove it  .


----------



## Jim Thompson (Jul 21, 2006)

bumping this back to the top.  good info DP.  We shot last weekend and I was taking out the breech plug every time I ran a patch.  So I sould run the patch from the end and not from the breech after every shot?


----------



## Flintrock (Jul 21, 2006)

Using a "Spit Patch "as yall call it is a good idea.
It not only keeps the bore clean for consistant shooting and easier cleaning.IT also puts out any possible hot ambers in the barrel to prevent the next charge from going off when it is being loaded !!!!
,
No need to remove the breach every shot.Only swab it out.
 Clean thouroughly when you feel it its needed. about every 5-10 shots. 

The term  "spit patch" should be in name only. We should not use spit because spit contains salt. Dont want to pour salt down the barrel do we ?


----------



## goindeep (Jul 22, 2006)

daddy paul- are those the regular shockwaves, bonded, or the new ez glide? getting ready to shoot the new prohunter...thanks


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Jul 23, 2006)

I just bought my first Muzzleloader as well.  Great information with some great questions.

Thanks for bring this back up to the top.

Darrell


----------



## DaddyPaul (Aug 27, 2006)

goindeep, 
I used the regular Shockwaves last year and smacked three bucks down here in Florida with them.  The two that ran a little ways left a BUNCH of blood to mark their trail.  Since I have some left over I will probably stick with them this season?  How did the Pro Hunter shoot?

Sorry it took so long to respond!


----------



## bull0ne (Oct 8, 2006)

Deserves a bump........


----------



## RamblinWreck (Oct 8, 2006)

Talk about timing! I was having fits today with elevation changes at 100 yards (at 25 or 50 yds the deer will be dead), but I was only swabbing the barrel after 5 shots, and by then massive crud had built up. This is just what I was about to post a question about! I will try again tomorrow using the wet patch between shots.

DP: is your first cold shot on call after cleaning? I don't want to leave the gun fouled for hunting - or should I? I have a CO2 unloader, so I don't shoot it unless its at a deer on hunting trips.

I clean my ML after every day I shoot it now. I always remove the breech plug and clean everything. This is easy to do on my T/C in-line with a 7/16" socket and extesion.

PS these old eyes love using a scope this year.


----------



## Nicodemus (Oct 8, 2006)

leoparddog9 said:


> I agree DaddyPaul - When at the range I also use a spit patch.  But mine is really wetted with spit.  When I've shot at rondevous using my sidelock a spit patch is the best deal.  I just hold 2-4 patches in my cheek like chewing tobacco and use them for between shot wiping and for patching the lead ball.
> 
> Works like a charm.



I do the same thing. When huntin`, I use a patch lubed with rendered bear oil, but for on the line shootin` soon as you load, I always spit patch.


----------



## Gadget (Oct 8, 2006)

I use T/C 13 and Bore Butter too, good stuff. 

sighted in the 45 Cal Winchester Apex last week; clean the barrel after every shot, If not I don't get a good group.

Just put a Leupold 3-9 x 50 on. I shot a 2 inch group, but would get a flier every once in a while that would put me at 3 or 4 inches.


----------



## scott mclain (Oct 9, 2006)

I took the tc encore to the range this weekend as well.  I used the 250 gr tc shockwaves with 2 777 pellets.  Shoots about 1" high at 50 yards and 3-4" LOW AT 100 yards.  I ran the tc "SPIT PATCH" every three shots.  I have 2 questions.
1.  Do you think that I should bump it up to 150 grains of 777.  To see how it patterns?  Or just leave it alone?
2.  I thought that I read in the manual that you shouls not use bore butter because it will affect the way that the tc sabot will fly?  Any truth to this.


----------



## Doyle (Oct 9, 2006)

Hey DaddyPaul, you aren't using that  Encore in Florida for muzzle loading season are you?   I know a lot of people use them here, but they don't realize they they are not a "legal" muzzle loader since they can be converted to center fire.


----------



## RamblinWreck (Oct 9, 2006)

Per Hogdon's website, 777 should be measured by VOLUME (of equivalent black powder load), not by weight. I noticed their load data does not go over 100 GN by Volume.

I use an adjustable T/C powder measure set for 120 GN of black powder (verified with a scale), then use it to measure 777 by volume. I think three 50/50 triple-7 pellets would be safe in a ML designed to handle the magnum charges. A guy I shot with at the range yesterday was using three 777 50/50 pellets to charge his 50 cal Encore ML.

Don't know about the bore butter. I don't use it anymore unless shooting lead with real black powder (rarely) or storing the gun between seasons. With 777 I just clean, load, and shoot per the Hogdon website. YMMV


----------



## Jim Thompson (Oct 9, 2006)

we ran a large handful of shots through all three over the weekend with a pre-lubbed patch first and then a dry patch between each Will kill any and all that we shoot at under 17 yards


----------



## duckbill (Oct 9, 2006)

scott mclain said:


> I took the tc encore to the range this weekend as well.  I used the 250 gr tc shockwaves with 2 777 pellets.  Shoots about 1" high at 50 yards and 3-4" LOW AT 100 yards.  I ran the tc "SPIT PATCH" every three shots.  I have 2 questions.
> 1.  Do you think that I should bump it up to 150 grains of 777.  To see how it patterns?  Or just leave it alone?
> 2.  I thought that I read in the manual that you shouls not use bore butter because it will affect the way that the tc sabot will fly?  Any truth to this.




Scott, that sounds kind of slow.  I shoot 100gr of loose Pyrodex over 250gr Shockwaves from a Knight LK93.  I don't get any drop at 100yds.  
I use a dab of bore butter on my sabots when I load them.  It has never affected my accuracy.


DOYLE,
I've never heard of the encore being "illegal" in Florida.  A lot of people are breaking the law if it's true.  You've got me curious, though.


----------



## Doyle (Oct 9, 2006)

The FL law (see the hunter's handbook) says you can't use one that is capable of firing a centerfire cartridge.    I took the hunter safety course last year so I could get onto our local county park.  The intructor was VERY specific.  He said convertible firearms like the Encore are not allowed during muzzle loader season.   As to whether or not that is strictly enforced is another matter.


----------



## duckbill (Oct 10, 2006)

Doyle said:


> The FL law (see the hunter's handbook) says you can't use one that is capable of firing a centerfire cartridge.    I took the hunter safety course last year so I could get onto our local county park.  The intructor was VERY specific.  He said convertible firearms like the Encore are not allowed during muzzle loader season.   As to whether or not that is strictly enforced is another matter.



Thanks for the info.  I personally don't use one, but have several friends who do.  DP uses one also  .


----------



## captainhook (Oct 10, 2006)

Good thread on the patch.


----------



## DaddyPaul (Oct 10, 2006)

Doyle,
In answer to your question YES I have hunted with my Encore for 3 or 4 seasons down here as a blackpowder rifle.  And with all due respect sir if the following is what you and your instructor are referring to I think you are both slightly misinformed?  

For hunting deer, muzzleloaders firing single bullets must be at least .40-caliber. Guns firing two or more balls must be 20-gauge or larger. You may not use muzzleloaders with self-contained cartridge ammunition capabilities or possess modern firearms during muzzleloading gun season   .  

Not sure what a "self contained cartridge" is but I can assure you my Encore doesn't shoot them!  I have a buddy who is a game warden down here and I will give him a holler and see what his take is on it.  I don't read it at all to say that the Encore, H&R's, New England Firearms, some CVA's etc. are not legal firearms for the blackpowder season given that is the configuration they are in while hunting.  Having said that, I have been wrong before!


----------



## DaddyPaul (Oct 10, 2006)

Waiting on a reply from Captain Brown with the FWC at this very moment!  Will report back when I have a ruling.


----------



## Doyle (Oct 10, 2006)

I hope he gives you the thumbs up on your Encore.   Those regs are pretty vague sometimes.   My instructor may have just been misinformed.  In any case, I'm glad to hear you have a contact that can set the record straight.


----------



## DaddyPaul (Oct 11, 2006)

Just got off the phone with Officer James Devan out of the Jacksonville, Florida office (I guess Capt. Brown is too busy to call me back?) and he confirmed what I suspected in that the T/C Encore, CVA Optima Pro Elite, H&R, New England Firearms and any other "switch barrel" guns are perfectly legal to use during our ML season in Florida. He said that it all stemmed from something where people could use some "insert" of some type with a shotgun barrel on some of the H&R guns that made them a muzzleoader? He also said that if they took out that insert then it would shoot a "self contained cartridge" which would be illegal. He did recommend that I leave my centerfire barrels at home while I hunt with my Encore ML. I told him that I usually carry a screwdriver, hammer and punch with me just in case I see a deer out of range of the ML, I can switch over to my .270! Doyle this is not solely intended towards you but I did want to clear up any confusion on this matter! They are perfectly legal to use in Florida.


----------



## duckbill (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks DP.  You sniffed it out like an old blood hound.


----------



## Doyle (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks for getting to the bottom of this.  My concern was with making sure an otherwise law abiding forum brother didn't get into trouble with some little-known quirk in the law.   Good job and good luck with your muzzle loader hunt.


----------



## duckbill (Oct 11, 2006)

Doyle said:


> Thanks for getting to the bottom of this.  My concern was with making sure an otherwise law abiding forum brother didn't get into trouble with some little-known quirk in the law.   Good job and good luck with your muzzle loader hunt.




You did good, Doyle.  Now, we all know and it's not just a rumor or gray area.   .


----------



## DaddyPaul (Oct 11, 2006)

Doyle,
I know what you were trying to do and I appreciate it.  Heck my picture has been in WoodsNWater with my Encore a couple of times and I needed to be POSITIVELY sure about it myself, hence the phone calls I made.  It is all good my brother, no offense taken on my end.


----------



## DaddyPaul (Oct 16, 2006)

Finally got my call back from Capt. Brown with the Fl FWC and he drove home the point that "switch barrel" ML's are perfectly legal in Florida so long as they are in their ML configuration during that season.


----------



## Gadget (Oct 16, 2006)

Glad to hear that DP!  Now I don't have to report ya for poaching......


----------



## captainhook (Oct 17, 2006)

I used some of the new presoaked T7 patches that TC is offering between each shot and they are awesome. They make the loading much easier and they make the accuracy way better.


----------



## SmokyMtnSmoke (Jun 26, 2008)

bumping a good thread.


----------



## jp328 (Jun 30, 2008)

Shot the Encore today with 100gr 777 and a 245 aero tip. I had them touching at 100 yards. I do not remove my breach plug. I just crack open the barrel and with the barrel up scrub until the barrel is clean. Then I push a dry patch very hard down the barrel to push all moisture thru the plug. I only clean after every third shot. I still get good groups.


----------



## jp328 (Jun 30, 2008)

DaddyPaul said:


> Doyle,
> In answer to your question YES I have hunted with my Encore for 3 or 4 seasons down here as a blackpowder rifle.  And with all due respect sir if the following is what you and your instructor are referring to I think you are both slightly misinformed?
> 
> For hunting deer, muzzleloaders firing single bullets must be at least .40-caliber. Guns firing two or more balls must be 20-gauge or larger. You may not use muzzleloaders with self-contained cartridge ammunition capabilities or possess modern firearms during muzzleloading gun season   .
> ...



Need to watch those electra's. Thay are not considered Muzzle loaders in some states.


----------



## bull0ne (Oct 4, 2010)

TTT..........it's time to blow some smoke! 

The opening post will prove helpful........


----------



## Dead Eye Eddy (Oct 4, 2010)

Good bump bullone.  I shoot Pyrodex pellets and Powerbelt bullets.  I use pre-soaked patches that I bought a few years back on clearance at WM.  I brush the barrel after every shot.  Then, I spit patch the barrel after every other shot.  I like to use one pre-soaked patch and 2 dry patches.  You can really go through some patches, but it's the only way I've found to get consistent accuracy.  I sighted in 2 muzzleloaders this way last night.


----------



## Bodycamp13 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Blackhorn 209*

It has probably been said but eliminate the spit patch and use Blackhorn 209.  No swabbing between shots.  Clean with Hoppe's #9 at the end of the season.  No rust, faster, cleaner, no patches and no crud ring.


----------



## LanceColeman (Oct 10, 2010)

Ya know sometimes I find it funny. I read alot about saboted bullets sometimes not being as slick or easily loaded as the box says they are... And what with these new stainless and nickel guard barrels as well as cleaner burning hot BP substitutes the barrel SHOULD in fact be slicker and cleaner yes??

I shoot a 54 caliber side lock. My wife works at a dental clinic. She brings me home those little individual packed alcahol pads that they don't use. I poke em down in my possibles bag.

I shoot a patched round ball. use walmart pillow ticking for my patch and straight LARD as a lube. I also use REAL black powder.....about every two shots I'll break out one of those lil alcahol pads and place it over a jag and run it down the barrel....

I can use my THUMB to press my .530 round ball sitting on the patch down flush in the barrel, then use a knife to cut the patch free then a ram rod to drive her on home. No bullet starter, no special sabot, no steel or aluminum rod, and no grunting. I was taught that you can look on a fellas face as he's loading his rifle and tell wether or not his patch is too tight...... I believe that.... And my ol rifle shoots clover leaf groups at 80yds.


----------



## bull0ne (Oct 8, 2011)

Digging up old bones that still have some meat on em! 

Should be a sticky IMO.......great info


----------

