# 257 WM vs. 270 Win



## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

It's time to start kicking around the idea of another rifle. Last year when I went through this I ended up with a 7x57 that has been pretty fun to shoot. Not the world's most accurate rifle (1972 Ruger M77), but I'm getting consistent 1.25" groups and I'm happy with that. Anyway, I've sort of always wanted a 257 Roy in a Mark V ultra lightweight. So I start researching and researching and keep coming back to a dang 270 Win. It looks to me like the 270 may the better choice as the ballistics are strikingly similar but with less powder and cheaper, more plentiful brass going for the 270. I've still got my eyes on the Mark V ultra lightweight, but can't seem to find a reason to convince myself that the 257 is the way to go.  Thoughts? I know that BOTH are really overkill on eastern whitetails, but that's OK by me.


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## Ga-Bullet (Jan 26, 2009)

Apples to Apples the 25-06 Is more in line with the 257. If you can live with 200-250fps Less in the 25-06. It will save some you some major $ on Brass.


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## WTM45 (Jan 26, 2009)

My .270Win handloads have relegated my .264WM to duty in the back row of the gunsafe.

It's all about what you want to do.  Choice is a good thing.


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## Bruz (Jan 26, 2009)

Having loaded for the Weatherby's I will say that they aren't worth the effort......Get a 257 Roberts or 25-06.....Plenty flat shooting and deadly with 100gr TSX's.

Robert


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

I've already got a 25-06, which I plan to keep. This would be a "just because" rifle. In this case it's just because I want another rifle and want want it in a Mark V ultra lightweight.


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## Doyle (Jan 26, 2009)

Have you considered a .270 WSM.   My hunting buddy uses one.  Very accurate, short action, and faster than a standard .270.   The downside is ammo availability and cost.


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## WTM45 (Jan 26, 2009)

Stay away from the WBY chamberings and save a pound in weight AND carry 5 + 1 instead of 3 + 1 in the magazine/chamber.


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

I've never had any interest in ANY of the WSM/WSSM's. Not sure why, they just don't do anything for me.


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## Buzz (Jan 26, 2009)

If you want one get it.     If it were all about practicality, most of us would be hunting with Grandpa's .30-30 or his .30-06.    You already have a very practical rifle in your 7x57.      I am currently having a .257 Weatherby Magnum built on a Remington 700 with a 26" Hart SS tube.    The smithy says the last one he built clocks just under  3700 fps with 100g Barnes TSXs.     The .257 Roy's calling card is flat trajectory and the .270 Winchester simply doesn't have the horsepower to compete with that.  

Now of course, that comes with the disclaimer that you'll have to be shooting at well over 300y for it to shine.   Using a program to calc point blank range of 3", I get 315 yards for the .257 Weatherby and 265y for the .270 Win using a hot 130g loading.     At 400y the .257 Weatherby has dropped 5.75" and the .270 Winchester has dropped 12.70", over twice as much.    

I wouldn't build one as an all around rifle, I have plenty of other choices for that.   However, it's the king of flat trajectories when it comes to big game rifles and I figured what the heck.    Brass IS expensive, but in a pinch it can be made from 7mm RM brass in one simple pass.   Some of the newer "magnum" powders have significantly improved the ballistics of this 65 year old Magnum round.


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

Buzz, could you run that program for the 270 with a 110 grain bullet at 3500? The 110 TSX is what I have in mind. I'd be curious to see what it looks like.  I'm not sure about those 400 yard shots, I can't see me taking many of those, 250 makes me 'twitchy'.


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## Buzz (Jan 26, 2009)

That certainly makes it closer trajectory wise, but the .270 will still have about 9.8" of drop @400 and the .257 Weatherby is also going to have about 330 ft/lbs more of energy,  in part due to the better BC of the .257 bullet.

You'd have to be real careful about bullet selection in the .257 Weatherby, it's not a woods number.    Perfectly good bullets in the .257 Roberts would come apart like little grenades @ 100y in a .257 Roy.

Here are a couple of charts for you.


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

Looking at that chart and those numbers, I'd suspect that the 110 in the 270 and the 115 in the 257 (both TSX's) would look mighty similar. That 257 sure is cool though, ain't it!


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## Hammack (Jan 26, 2009)

What about a 25-06 Ackley IMP.  You already have a 25-06 so you would have some brass to play with and it would accomplish the same thing basically a 257 would.  If it was a primary hunting rifle I would advise other wise, but just for a "just because" rifle I like to make them interesting.


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

I've thought about an Ackley, it seems intriguing. Even if I did an Ackley I'd still end up buying a Weatherby mark v ulw. My main deer hunting rifle is my 243, so messing with the '06 is no big deal to me.  It looks like the '06 Ackley nips right on the WM's heels. How do you think it would perform in a 24" barrel? Seems like that much powder in that narrow of a tube is just screaming for 26".


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## returntoarchery (Jan 26, 2009)

Grouper Sandwich,

How bout a 270 Weatherby Mag.  

as for running the Max Point Blank calculation, you can use Norma's on line calulator at www.norma.cc . It's a pretty cool tool.

I'm with you, as everytime I start thinking of replacing my 270 Win with another cartridge I start looking a the cost of reload and ammo and what I gain or loose and I'm always back to the ole trusty 270 Win. I know some will disagree but there's a good reason that its been the most popular cartridge for many years second only to the 30-06.


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## Buzz (Jan 26, 2009)

grouper sandwich said:


> I've thought about an Ackley, it seems intriguing. Even if I did an Ackley I'd still end up buying a Weatherby mark v ulw. My main deer hunting rifle is my 243, so messing with the '06 is no big deal to me.  It looks like the '06 Ackley nips right on the WM's heels. How do you think it would perform in a 24" barrel? Seems like that much powder in that narrow of a tube is just screaming for 26".



AI rounds don't get nearly the gains you might think.    Most people that shoot ackley rounds load them to the gills, which of course you could do with any of the Magnum rounds as well.  The one with the higher case capacity is always going to have a higher velocity for a given bullet diameter if the pressure is the same.  It seems that people always want to brag about their overpressured loads on Internet forums; however, common sense dictates that if pressures are the same, a .308 will never match a .30-06, a .30-06 will never match a .300 Win Mag, a .300 Win Mag will never match a .30-378, etc. 

Here is something interesting John Barness (who wrote for Handloader and Rifle Magazines for many years) said about AI's on 24H campfire.  This was in response to the "280 AI almost duplicates the 7 mag with less powder."



			
				Mule Deer said:
			
		

> Well, you are kind of halfway correct, in that the .280 AI gains about 100 fps over the FACTORY loads of the .280. But at the same pressure it gains about 1.5% in velocity over the standard .280 if loaded to the same pressure.
> 
> The .280 AI gains about 6% in case capacity over the standard AI. This does NOT mean it gains 6% in velocity. Any increase in case capacity means about 1/4 that amount in muzzle velocity, AT THE SAME PRESSURE. This means 1.5%, or about 50 fps with most loads.
> 
> ...



Largely - I think it's just going to come down to what you want.    Since you handload, there isn't really anything you can't do with your 7x57mm that you could do with several dozen hunting rounds.

I have four custom rifles built that I will do basically all of my hunting with.  They are a .243 Win, .257 Wby, 6.5x55, and a .338 Win Mag.   I also have a 7x57 and a .308 Win that I'm real fond of.   If forced to chose just one, I'd be using the Swede.


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## returntoarchery (Jan 26, 2009)

Buzz said:


> I have four custom rifles built that I will do basically all of my hunting with.  They are a .243 Win, .257 Wby, 6.5x55, and a .338 Win Mag.   I also have a 7x57 and a .308 Win that I'm real fond of.   If forced to chose just one, I'd be using the Swede.



If I didn't have to alter the bolt face on my mauser project, I'd seriously consider the 6.5x55 as well. But alas I'll stick with the 270 Win as my first custom mauser. Next mauser project may very well be a Swede unless of course I'm too set in my ways and can't bring myself to change to another cartridge.


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I often am, but isn't the big advantage of an AI longer case life with the additional 100-150 FPS simply an added bonus? I still may have my 25-06 converted, maybe have a trigger put in it at the same time.  Heck, I rarely shoot it since I got the 243 and 7x57 so I may as well make it into something interesting. And it kind of hurts watching that big old Meopta sit the bench.


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## Buzz (Jan 26, 2009)

I think like JB said, 150fps is extremely optimistic with AI's and it results from not comparing apples and apples.  You are correct that you can get a longer case life with an AI, but it's more like 50 fps in most cases.   Some AI rounds are certainly better than others though.

I've never found case life to be a problem unless I was loading rounds too hot.


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## fi8shmasty (Jan 26, 2009)

If you want an interesting wildcat cartridge try a 25 wsm,.. The dies are available, as well as the reamers. You would really need a good Bullet though. 
 Check over here a lot of quarter bore nuts hang around there.\
http://forums.wssmzone.com/default.asp


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## grouper sandwich (Jan 26, 2009)

That's getting waaaay off the path I'm strolling down. Besides, the WSM/WSSM's just don't interest me for some reason. I bet the 25 WSM is a burner though.


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## Hammack (Jan 26, 2009)

I have two 6mm Remingtons. one is a 600 with an 18.5" barrel, and the other is a 700 with a 24" barrel.  I also have a 6mm AI with a 24" barrel.  No matter how hot I load the two in comparison I still get on average 150fps higher velocity with the AI.  I've never been able to load my 6mm Rem to shoot within 100fps without getting a hard bolt lift. This may not be the case with them all, but it has been my experience with the one that I have.


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