# Got Bees?



## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

Anybody out there that spots a swarm of bees in the next few months....please shoot me a pm and I'll see about retrieving them.  Or if you know of a wild hive somewhere that I might can get close to and do a trap out I would appreciate it! 

For those of you that want to start beekeeping... the time is upon you and you'll have to move fast to get in on the action for this year!

I'm building trapout/swarm hives right now and also have some bees on order that will be here this weekend!  The little girls in my current hives are already stirin' around and collecting nectar.  So it begins!!! 

And for those of you that want to start and don't want to spend a bunch of money building or buying hives... there are ways around that! Natural Beekeeping is really gaining ground in this area and you too can do it quickly and cheaply, with items you probably already own!


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

I have ALWAYS wanted to be a bee keeper. How do you do the Natural Beekeeping??


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> I have ALWAYS wanted to be a bee keeper. How do you do the Natural Beekeeping??



There are many wedsites devoted to natural beekeeping.  

Top bar hives are by far my favorite and I've recently found a site where you can build the hives from an old 55 gallon plastic drum...which I am working on now!  The bees attach their comb to top bars layed across the barrel with a popcicle stick glued into it to give them a starting point.  Basically 2x4 construction and a piece of tin on top of the hive to keep out moisture! The bees build their comb naturally which helps guard against disease and hive pests.  Here are a couple of sites that I like and one is similar to Woodies where you can get a ton of information... some right and some wrong... but opinion none the less!  Let me know how I can help you get started!  I love to see folks adding bees!!!!!!!!! 

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

http://www.biobees.com/forum/login....p&t=2831&sid=ba12891a04bf187410e6e0b2887238cd


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks, I will check out these sites. Would love to know how expensive it is to get started.


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> Thanks, I will check out these sites. Would love to know how expensive it is to get started.



If you have a blue or black 55 gallon plastic drum....a few 2x4's and a piece of tin... some basic power tools (table saw really helps) or someone that does.. nothing!  I think your in Florida and a word or two to some friends or Pest control services and you'll have people asking you to come and get the bees for free!  I caught 3 swarms last year just by word of mouth.  And you live in an area that has lots of bees for the taking with a swarm trap!


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

Bitteroot said:


> If you have a blue or black 55 gallon plastic drum....a few 2x4's and a piece of tin... some basic power tools (table saw really helps) or someone that does.. nothing!  I think your in Florida and a word or two to some friends or Pest control services and you'll have people asking you to come and get the bees for free!  I caught 3 swarms last year just by word of mouth.  And you live in an area that has lots of bees for the taking with a swarm trap!



Swarm trap.............gotta get me one of those. Easy to make?


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## GAGE (Feb 24, 2010)

My father in law has 3 hives at our camp in Elbert cty.and is in the process of adding 2 more,  they are a lot of fun and the honey is not bad either!


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## Son (Feb 24, 2010)

At Lake Seminole, SW Ga, last year I saw no honey bees. Only bumble bees on my plants. In the hunting woods, knew where several bee trees were, and the bees have left. Makes me wonder what's happening to the honey bees.


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> Swarm trap.............gotta get me one of those. Easy to make?



yes.... basically any wooden box that can be made into a top hive and sealed where they can't escape once you close it up for transport.  And if you live close to someone that keeps bees... you can set up a swarm trap on your site that you might find filled with bees one afternoon!  Placing propolis..old honey comb.. honey.. and lemongrass oil in the trap will entice the bees to come and stay.  Catching a swarm is much easier if they are low enough to the ground...and if they are high in a tree I've heard of the old timers "panging" to get the bees to fly down into a trap. It sounds crazy.. but they basically beat a pot with a spoon or something and the bees supposedly will think its a storm or something and move lower!  Never tried it.. but have known folks that say it works.

Went I finish one of my traps I can post pics for you and anyone that wants to see how its made.  The removable bars can be relocated to the larger hive without destroying the comb the bees have made.


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

How much are bees if you order them?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

Son said:


> At Lake Seminole, SW Ga, last year I saw no honey bees. Only bumble bees on my plants. In the hunting woods, knew where several bee trees were, and the bees have left. Makes me wonder what's happening to the honey bees.



Colony colapse is a problem although many don't believe it to be the doom and gloom that some propose that it is. Bee's have been forced into a commercial mold for so long that they often are inferior to the wild bees of old.  Italian, Russian, and many other types are crossed for this trait or that and the constant medication to protect your investment has also taken it's toll in my very limited and humble opinion.  But it stand to reason and that is why many veteran keepers are following the natural methods to produce a superior more genetically tolerant bee that is not as vunerable to disease and hive pests.  I have not and will not medicate my bees other than natural oils that aid in the defense of the bees by breaking the gestation cycles of the pests such as varroa and small hive beetle.  Foul brood is present in almost everyhive to some degree...but it is the stressed hive that falls victim to the disease.  Bees that are allowed to build their own comb... the way they want it have been shown to produce a more resistant bee that grows stonger with each generation.


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## boneboy96 (Feb 24, 2010)

how much are the Epi shots if ur allergic to them?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> How much are bees if you order them?



You can buy a package of bees from a supplier for around $60 or so. That is about 20,000 bees, and plenty to get a hive started. The queen is in the package as well.  She will be caged with a sugar cork that the bees can eat through and release her when you place them in the hive.  How close are you to Moultrie, Ga?  Rossman Bee Supply is there and you can pickup packages from them. I am sure there are several in the Florida as well!


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

boneboy96 said:


> how much are the Epi shots if ur allergic to them?



dunno... I'm allergic and have never taken one! Would'nt recommend that though!  Some are much more allergic than others!  I don't usually wear a bees suit... but I did during the later part of the season... cause they get a little mad when you're stealing their hard work!!


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

I know a guy down here that is in a bee club so I will probably give him a call soon to ask where I can get the packages from. but I'm really interested in how you build that hive out of a 55 gal. drum. How do you get the honey out? Is that what the 2x4's are for? they attach their combs to them?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

Here ya go! The 55 gallon drum hive!  Pretty Cool!

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/barrel-top-bar-hive/

Be prepared to face scepticism from the bee club.  Most of them if not all will have the tradition/commercial Lang type hives. And most if not all will follow a regiment of medication.  When the Lang hive was invented the inventor stated that it was so the novice could keep and harvest bees in his backyard easily.  This was about the bee owners and not what was best for the bees themselves!  I do believe that it was the commercialization of the bees that has led to the problems we are having currently with bee population.


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> I know a guy down here that is in a bee club so I will probably give him a call soon to ask where I can get the packages from. but I'm really interested in how you build that hive out of a 55 gal. drum. How do you get the honey out? Remove the tin and pull out a bar frameIs that what the 2x4's are for?yes.. you rip a small notch on the underside where popcicle sticks will fit half way into the grove and glue it in they attach their combs to them?Yes they will attach better than we can



The other disadvantage of the Lang type hives are the expense of buying new frames and foundation sheets almost every year.  Top Bar hives allow the bees to make their own, and I've found that they do it pretty well.... their bees!


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

that is too cool...........


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

Oh yea.. the barrel hive frame is shown setting on an inspection frame so you can look at both sides without turning it around a lot and breaking the comb....it will be heavy with bees!


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## Capt Quirk (Feb 24, 2010)

Bitterroot, where are you located? I'm thinking it's time to start our hives, and even thought about trying to catch them... IF we could find the time to follow one back


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm gonna get a 55 gal drum and put my husband to work. Do you HAVE to have an extractor for the honey?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

Capt Quirk said:


> Bitterroot, where are you located? I'm thinking it's time to start our hives, and even thought about trying to catch them... IF we could find the time to follow one back



I live in NW GA... Sugar Valley!  I've know a guy that throws flour on bees gathering nectar... they take off for home and you can watch the direction pretty easily so he says.  He used to get a lot of honey in the old days and didn't own a hive.  Now he might have been following it back to the neighbors house... but it did show him the way!


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> I'm gonna get a 55 gal drum and put my husband to work. Do you HAVE to have an extractor for the honey?



No... you can crush and strain the honey through a paint strainer into a clean pail or commercial white food grade bucket.  We have an extractor so I am going to modify the frame and see if I can make it work in ours...but if it doesn't no big deal.  After you get finished straining you can take the remaining wax/honey mixiture and put it in a stainless pot and put it in the oven at 170 degrees... the wax will melt and come to the top and the honey will stay on bottom.  Let it cool and the wax will harden so you can remove it... exposing the remaining honey underneath.  There won't be a lot of honey.... but it seperates it so you have good clean wax for candles and such!


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## Capt Quirk (Feb 24, 2010)

Bitteroot said:


> I live in NW GA... Sugar Valley!



Wow... I can see you won't be dropping by anytime soon


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

The article doens't tell much about the bar contruction as it assumes that Top Bar followers already know the detail.  If you look at Bushes website the describes a standard bar in much more detail.  In a nut shell...you wan't all the bars to fill the entire top of the barrel end to end with no gaps and no escape up through the bars to the outside world.  The only entrance is the hole in the drum.  So you have to make sure the barrel is secure to the wood frame all the way around.  For Brood frame which is about 1/3 of the hive...you need to make the bars 1 1/4 wide and closest to the entrance... and the honey storage bars need to be 1 1/2 wide.  Bee spacing is very important to the bees.  If you put the bars in there differently... the bees will sometimes cross comb over two or more frames making it difficult to remove them.  Michael Bush is an authority on Top Bar Hives....I read all of his stuff with great interest!


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## Sunshine1 (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm confused on the bars. The bottom is square....so how is that fitting into the barrel? Or is that just a frame to hold it once you've pulled it out??


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## Capt Quirk (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> I'm confused on the bars. The bottom is square....so how is that fitting into the barrel? Or is that just a frame to hold it once you've pulled it out??



That is just a frame for holding the comb AFTER you pull it out of the hive.


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## Bitteroot (Feb 24, 2010)

FloridaHunter said:


> I'm confused on the bars. The bottom is square....so how is that fitting into the barrel? Or is that just a frame to hold it once you've pulled it out??



Yes that frame shown in the picture is just for inspections.  The Top bar is a single piece the width of the barrel... probably 1 1/4 inches wide 1-1.5 inches thick and notched on each end to keep from sliding from side to side.  Look at a Top Bar Hive on Bushes web site and it will show you more detail.  The thing about TB hives is there are no rules!  You can make it out of a long flower pot if you want to.... the bars just have to be set up for the bees to start their home and factory!  I like the drum idea very much.. it's easy to find one, usually for free... it will never rot.... it only requires a few boards to finish the product and the bars will interchange with other barrel hives too!


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## bnew17 (Feb 25, 2010)

Do you have to wear one of those special suits that you see on tv when dealing with them?


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## bnew17 (Feb 25, 2010)

I would like to try this...i love trying new things and love honey. My only concern is it being too difficult for a novice to do with no mentors around or to start from scratch. THere arent too many bee keepers around, that i know of.


How much time and effort is involved in this? is it something that will require alot of time and attention, daily, weekly?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 25, 2010)

bnew17 said:


> Do you have to wear one of those special suits that you see on tv when dealing with them?





bnew17 said:


> I would like to try this...i love trying new things and love honey. My only concern is it being too difficult for a novice to do with no mentors around or to start from scratch. THere arent too many bee keepers around, that i know of.
> 
> 
> How much time and effort is involved in this? is it something that will require alot of time and attention, daily, weekly?



Suit is optional... in the photos I am without suit and no stings... My wife is wearing a head net and regular clothing.  I have bought some wedding veil material at Walmart and wore it over a hat with a brim and a white shirt and deerskin gloves.

Time is as much as you want it to be.  At first it was my wifes hobby.... and I swore I would not be involved at all.  After I got to watching and learning a bit about it... I couldn't stay away and now she is the one watching more often than not.  I visit my hives in the "flow" season about once a week.  I would do it everyday but that is too much disturbance for the bees.  So now I've added hives so I can play with bees daily if I want.  I am going to build an observation hive for my shop so I can watch em all the time. The hive will be indoors... the entrance outdoors.  You can learn about bees on the websites I've listed above.  Bushfarms gives a ton of information and also www.beesource.com is an outstanding site for learning. Bigox and I are planning a trip down your way..Dublin I think in the next few weeks... to rob some bees out of a tree and an old house....you should hook up with us at that time and I'll show you more about them if you like.  Cuting out a hive is not always successful... but we're going to give it a go anyway. I'm very interested in stable non-commercial stock if I can find it.


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## bnew17 (Feb 25, 2010)

so to get the honey you just crush the hive into a strainer and "voila"?

how often can you collect honey?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 25, 2010)

bnew17 said:


> so to get the honey you just crush the hive into a strainer and "voila"?
> 
> how often can you collect honey?



On a standard Lang type (common white box) you harvest once a year usually around mid to late summer to allow the bees to rebuild their stores for winter.  With a TopBar Hive...once they build up you can do the same thing....or take what you want one frame at a time, at any time.


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## JimDraper (Feb 25, 2010)

This is something i have wanted to get into for along time and have always just put it off. My Grandfather when he was alive had about 60 hives at one time when we lived in NY and then about 10 when he moved to Fla. i wish i was around him more so i could have learned all the in's and out's of bee keeping.


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## bnew17 (Feb 25, 2010)

So is this the gist of it.?

-Get a 50 gall drum.
-Cut it in half. 
-Make 2x3 frame to go around the sides of the barrel to help it keep its form. Secure it with exterior grade screws
-secure legs to the barrel on top of concrete blocks
-Fill the top of the barrel with 1 1/4" top bars snug against one another
-i think i read something on one of those websites where you could cut a strip of plastic. like from an election sign. to give the bees something to go off of.
-make a top cover for the barrel.


Am i thinkin the right way with this? After this is done , do you just add the bees and let them do their thing?


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## Bitteroot (Feb 26, 2010)

bnew17 said:


> So is this the gist of it.?
> 
> -Get a 50 gall drum.
> -Cut it in half.
> ...



You are pretty much on the money except the 1.25 bars will be for brood rearing.... you want about 65% of the bars to be 1.5 wide for honey storage. I glue popcicle sticks into the saw kerf on the underside of my bars. I will post some pictures of a couple of them this weekend if I can along with my latest TB hive.  Bee space is very important to the bees although it seems trivial to us.  They will create a cell that varies in size generaly towards the 4.9mm and smaller.  Drone brood cells will be larger but  worker cells will be regressed to the smaller size if allowed to do so naturally.  Commercial foundation is generally 4.9 but I have placed it in my Lang hives and they draw natural comb smaller directly beside the com. foundation every time.

And yes.. once you have your hive built out.... you would take a package of bees... open the hive and place the preped queen cage suspended between two bars.  Dump the remainder of the bees into the hive and let them do their thing. You can place a couple of bags of sugar syrup in the hive with them so they will attend the queen and start building comb.  Call me and I can explain in more detail and there are several videos on Youtube on how to install a package of bees into a new hive. Some I agree with.. some I don't but the above is pretty much how I do it.


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