# Why can't someone else sight your rifle in properly?



## urbaneruralite (Jan 23, 2008)

I once noticed a six inch vertical shift in point of impact between the group I printed and the group another person printed with a particular rifle. Given a quality scope of known dependability before and after how could that happen? I think it was mostly bench technique and head position, but six inches seems like a lot of difference.

What other factors are there that would prevent someone else from sighting your rifle in properly?


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## stevetarget (Jan 23, 2008)

you don't say at what distance but at 100 yards I would think 6 inches was way to much. I shoot rifles in for folks all the time. The guys I do it for usually have several rifles and are experienced shooters they just don't have the time or access to a range to sit down and dial a new scope in. ( they do go out and shoot the gun themselves before hunting and  fine tune if needed) My feed back has been very good with the guys telling me either no adjustment or a few clicks up or down. No left or right adjustments.(so far)
If you were shooting off a rest, about the only way I can think of to get that much differenc is one of you was shooting free recoil and the other was using a artilery hold. (holding the gun down tight) if you were standing then all bets are off. some folks can't hold the gun still when shooting in a standing position, they tend to move across the bullseye and pull the trigger on the way accross the target at a certain point in there sight picture this can make your group print in a different spot than someone who holds steady.


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## Phillip Thurmond (Jan 23, 2008)

I agree with stevetarget!


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## NottelyBILL (Jan 23, 2008)

my son use to zero mine in all the time-all 3 rifles and they were dead on for me. would seem if your scope has no paralax to the distance being shot it should shoot the same otherwise every time you mounted the gun it would have to be in exactly place as you did before. That's not practical in a lot of hunting situations especially deer hunting. For a none scoped weapon it is another story.


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## NottelyBILL (Jan 23, 2008)

another thing who wears the same clothes everytime you go hunting to avert a recoil issue


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## carabrook (Jan 23, 2008)

The only way I could see that happening is if you are using a lower power scope and it becomes judgement on when the crosshairs are actually on the target and if there is a difference of interpretation between the two shooters.


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## dawg2 (Jan 23, 2008)

urbaneruralite said:


> I once noticed a six inch vertical shift in point of impact between the group I printed and the group another person printed with a particular rifle. Given a quality scope of known dependability before and after how could that happen? I think it was mostly bench technique and head position, but six inches seems like a lot of difference.
> 
> What other factors are there that would prevent someone else from sighting your rifle in properly?



It sounds like it got bumped or a screw is loose.  6 inches is a big variance.  I zero my own, it is easy to do anyway.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jan 23, 2008)

There is usually some minor differences between "shooters", which
can and often does result in "change of impact point" on the
same rifle...Maybe up to 1"...6 " is alot, but obviously possible, since
you have experienced it.....
Not wanting to stir the pot, but another reason I sight in my own
rifles...Main reason is I just enjoy shooting......


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## K80 (Jan 23, 2008)

I expected to see more talk over here than this.


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## WTM45 (Jan 23, 2008)

Eyesight and focus is one factor.  Everyone has different vision.
That's why the military works with soldiers, having them memorize their elevation and windage clicks for the M16A1/A2 series.  You can pretty much take your numbers from your rifle, dial them into a completely different rifle and be very close to your zero.

Shooting technique and follow through are major contributors to the difference as well.


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## Bruz (Jan 23, 2008)

WTM45 said:


> Shooting technique and follow through are major contributors to the difference as well.



I agree. As I stated in the other thread my brother shoots his 300WM 3 inches high and 1 inch right of my groups. He obviously reacts to the recoil in a different manner than me. 

And No, I still don't understand why anyone would have another person sight in their rifle for them. That's like having someone practice your Golf swing for you.....or break in your new shoes.......I just don't get it. I drive an hour each way to Charlie Elliott every time I shoot and 1.5 hours each way to River Bend when I'm invited.

To each their own I guess.

Robert


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## Back2class (Jan 23, 2008)

May be paralax issues, but sounds like more of a loose part isssue.


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## Hammack (Jan 23, 2008)

I have seen it before and it was mostly a difference in reaction to recoil.  Watch him while he shoots, or load an empty cartridge and see if he flinches.  Believe it or not I have seen some people who seem to flinch consistently enough to still manage to shoot decent groups.  They just seem to pull the rifle one way or the other in reaction to the recoil.


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## bowbuck (Jan 24, 2008)

Hammack said:


> I have seen it before and it was mostly a difference in reaction to recoil.  Watch him while he shoots, or load an empty cartridge and see if he flinches.  Believe it or not I have seen some people who seem to flinch consistently enough to still manage to shoot decent groups.  They just seem to pull the rifle one way or the other in reaction to the recoil.



I use to pull my groups a few inches left because of flinching.  It was a good group just left.


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## PCarron (Jan 29, 2008)

"What other factors are there that would prevent someone else from sighting your rifle in properly?"

Breathing, trigger squeeze, body position, stock to cheek weld, amongst others.  Lining up the crosshairs w/ your target is one of many factors that impact round strike.

Some additional questions you might ask your surrogate shooter:

What type of ammunition did you he shoot with?  Grain Count?

Did he zero at 25 ft, if so depending on ballistics, your point of aim and point of strike will be different, unless adjusted for ballistics, or zeroed at your shooting distance.  What type of zero did he achieve, a parallel zero, or point of aim/point of strike at optimal distance?

For many rounds the bullet seems to be rising to the target since it is traveling a very shallow arc to its max ordinate.


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## capt stan (Jan 30, 2008)

Everyone holds and shoots different. Cheek to stock weld is not the same for ANY two folks.


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