# red dot vs open sights



## ChristopherA.King (Apr 28, 2013)

Just wondering what everyone's opinion on the red dot is. I started using one this year and missed a chance on a really good bird because I had forgotten to turn it on. I know this was my fault and not a malfunction but I am having my doubt about it now.


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## Big Ras (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm the keep it simple type myself so I'll stick with open sights


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## NCMTNHunter (Apr 28, 2013)

I have been shooting a red dot for about three seasons now and would not go back.  I wear glasses and have issues with them fogging up when it is humid out.  If I have to take my glasses of I can shoot the red dot fine.  I check my dot periodically throughout the hunt to make sure I have the brightness set for the amount of daylight.  That also keeps me from forgetting to turn it on.


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## pasinthrough (Apr 28, 2013)

I've shot open fiber optic sights for about 10 or so years now.  Bead sights before that.  This season I made the change to a red dot.  I keep an extra battery in my vest, just in case.  I've used the red dot on all three birds I've shot this year.  One just off the roost in thick hardwoods, one at 9:30am in thinned pines and another one at 10:40am in bright sun in a field.  All in all, I like the dot way better than either a bead or fiber optic sights.  

I keep my hands on the scope and don't turn it on until it's time to do business.

My scope is a 30mm.  I'm thinking about going to something like a 40 or 42mm.  I'll want to see them in person though before making my mind up.


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## 01Foreman400 (Apr 28, 2013)

This is my second season using a red dot.  I have nothing bad to say about them.  It will be all I use from here on out.


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## owlhoot78 (Apr 28, 2013)

Love the red dot. Just carry an extra battery in your vest.


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## Brad C. (Apr 29, 2013)

I like the Tasco Open Dot Sight I have on my 835.  I can dial my center of my pattern to deadnut over the head and neck of a bird everytime at 40yds one I got it zeroed with the load I am shooting. 

Last time I shot at the range a few weeks ago with the loads I shoot.  These aren't my best lot #, but they still shoot good.


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## Jody Hawk (Apr 29, 2013)

Love my Leupold Deltapoint! Mine turns on itself.


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## antnye (Apr 29, 2013)

Red dot. Burris fast fire has like a 20 million hour battery life  turn it on when you load it, turn it off when the hunt is over.  Replace battery every couple years. I think my 835s battery has been in it four years, but it doesn't get hunted with much since I got my 20ga.


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## Big Ras (Apr 29, 2013)

Jody Hawk said:


> Love my Leupold Deltapoint! Mine turns on itself.



What did that delta point set you back? I'm looking to get a red dot for three gun setup.


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## pnome (Apr 29, 2013)

I like open fiber optic sights.   Had a scope on my turkey gun for a while and it's just more trouble than it's worth.


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## swalker1517 (Apr 29, 2013)

Big Ras said:


> What did that delta point set you back? I'm looking to get a red dot for three gun setup.



Just looking on Amazon, around 450.00


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## GLS (Apr 29, 2013)

ChristopherA.King said:


> I know this was my fault and not a malfunction but I am having my doubt about it now.



Why would you have a doubt?  The older folks get, the ability to focus worsens on close up items such as a rear bead or sight, especially in low light.  It happened to me over 15 years ago.   A red dot is a very useful tool on a turkey gun.


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## Offroadtek (Apr 29, 2013)

My motto is K.I.S.S. 
For evectivness I think a reddot is better than a bead, and irons are better than a reddot. I hunted with a reddot but never shot anything with it. Now I hunt with an iron sighted barrel. 
Didn't mind the reddot, it was on my "turkey'd" out shotgun, reddot, Knoxx stock, weighed a ton. I decided to slim my gun down. Eliminate Murphy's options by keeping it simple.


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## ChristopherA.King (Apr 29, 2013)

GLS said:


> Why would you have a doubt?  The older folks get, the ability to focus worsens on close up items such as a rear bead or sight, especially in low light.  It happened to me over 15 years ago.   A red dot is a very useful tool on a turkey gun.



I guess the doubt is with myself remembering to turn the thing on. I like the how useful the scope is like said in another post you can adjust it to put your pattern where you want to. I guess I will just get some extra batteries and keep in my vest.


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## Big Ras (Apr 29, 2013)

http://www.brownells.com/optics-mou...n-rmr-dual-illumination-sights-prod55663.aspx  Found this might be just the thing if your worried about turning on a sight. Its a red dot that uses tritium and a fiber strip, no batteries required.  Even had me thinking of putting a dot on my stoeger.


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## cowhornedspike (Apr 29, 2013)

antnye said:


> Red dot. Burris fast fire has like a 20 million hour battery life  turn it on when you load it, turn it off when the hunt is over.  Replace battery every couple years. I think my 835s battery has been in it four years, but it doesn't get hunted with much since I got my 20ga.



^ this.

I leave my FF2 on all day while hunting and am still on the same battery after 2 years.


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## Bucky T (Apr 29, 2013)

At the moment, the bead on my Benelli is good enough for me.

But I can see the advantage of a red dot in certain situations.  Especially for aging eyes.


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## ChristopherA.King (Apr 29, 2013)

Big Ras said:


> http://www.brownells.com/optics-mou...n-rmr-dual-illumination-sights-prod55663.aspx  Found this might be just the thing if your worried about turning on a sight. Its a red dot that uses tritium and a fiber strip, no batteries required.  Even had me thinking of putting a dot on my stoeger.



That is pretty neat right there it's just 3 times the cost of the micro bushnell I have on my gun right now regardless I would love to have one!


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## Brad C. (Apr 30, 2013)

Chris,

Here's my setup on my 835.


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## ChristopherA.King (Apr 30, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Chris,
> 
> Here's my setup on my 835.



Thats pretty sweet right there!


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## Rick3060 (Apr 30, 2013)

I had a Tru glo red dot on my 835 that started floating bad so I have removed it!!! I would like to try a low power scope.... does anyone have this? Any dislikes?


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## chpeterson (Apr 30, 2013)

I have mixed feelings with them. Theyare nice, but i have seen them blow a few hunts for having something extra to mess with. Fog up, batteries dead, more hand movement, etc. Personally, the fiber optic sites on my benelli super nova work just fine.


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## Natty Bumppo (Apr 30, 2013)

I've had an aimpoint red dot scope on my Remington 11-87 for close to 10 years and couldn't imagine hunting with my Remington without it.  For me, it takes almost all of the thought out of aiming.  I love to watch a gobbler as he's getting closer with that red dot on him.

Although I like the aimpoint red dot scope, if I was buying another, I'd choose something smaller or more compact.  When I bought the aimpoint, I didn't know of any other choices, but today, there's a lot to choose from.


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## Brad C. (Apr 30, 2013)

I bought my TruGlo Tru-Brite Open Multi Sight from Native Outdoors.  Hard to beat for the money and it holds its zero shot after shot.  And it has a lifetime warranty.

http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/riflescopes.html


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## SowGreen (May 2, 2013)

I love my red dot and can't imagine hunting without it now. As far as not turning it on goes, you've got to remember its the same thing as a watch battery. How long does a watch battery last? For a long time. If you've got one gobbling just turn it on and leave it on. They will last a lot longer than you think. They one I have now is going on three years.

To give you an example of how long they last I left mine on one time and put it in the case and didn't hunt for a week and have been using it for two years since then. Also carry an extra one just in case.


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## GLS (May 3, 2013)

The FFIII automatically turns itself off after 7-8 hours.


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## M Sharpe (May 3, 2013)

GLS said:


> The FFIII automatically turns itself off after 7-8 hours.



That in it's self could be a problem too. If you're like me, and hunt all day, you could find yourself looking down your barrel at a gobbler with a sight that isn't on. Or, does movement keep it activated?


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## 01Foreman400 (May 3, 2013)

M Sharpe said:


> That in it's self could be a problem too. If you're like me, and hunt all day, you could find yourself looking down your barrel at a gobbler with a sight that isn't on. Or, does movement keep it activated?



Don't think movement keeps it activated.  I've never had any of these issues that have been brought up with my Docter sights.


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## ryanwhit (May 3, 2013)

01Foreman400 said:


> Don't think movement keeps it activated.  I've never had any of these issues that have been brought up with my Docter sights.



Yeah, the Docter does not have any of these issues...the only issue it has is the cost.  No complaints with my Docter, though I will be putting a FFIII on gun here pretty soon.  We'll see how they compare...


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## 01Foreman400 (May 3, 2013)

ryanwhit said:


> Yeah, the Docter does not have any of these issues...the only issue it has is the cost.  No complaints with my Docter, though I will be putting a FFIII on gun here pretty soon.  We'll see how they compare...



My next sight will likely be a EoTech MRDS.


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## jonboy (May 3, 2013)

Or you could get a Trijicon RMR and not have to worry about nothing but hunting. You can throw it down and step on it with no issues. Oh, did I mention no batteries!!!


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## Ricochet (May 3, 2013)

ryanwhit said:


> Yeah, the Docter does not have any of these issues...the only issue it has is the cost.  No complaints with my Docter, though I will be putting a FFIII on gun here pretty soon.  We'll see how they compare...


You will like it Ryan!

A red dot scope is the only way to go.  I have Burris FastFire 3 and a FastFire 1.  Both work great!  Like others said, they have a very long battery life and the FF3 turns off automatically.


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## GLS (May 3, 2013)

As for it turning off after 8 hours, the 8 hours begins each time the switch is activated which I believe includes dimming or brightening.  I can't see it being an issue.  At some point in the day, most of us will stop hunting to eat, nap or answer the call of nature which would be a good time to turn it off and then back on.   The Docter is available for not much more than the FFIII.  It can be bought from online sources for $250 delivered.  This version of the Docter is the same as the FFII.   There is a European version which is the same as the FFIII but I haven't seen it availabe in the US at this time.  The Docter is the original design.


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## Brad C. (May 3, 2013)

I know Burris makes some good ones, but I can buy 3 of these Tasco open dot multi sights for what a guy would pay for one Burris Fast Fire.  And I would bet money that 1 of these Tasco sights will last just as long as a Burris Fast Fire and the Tasco will hold its zero just as good as the Burris Fast Fire.  Now that's not knocking Burris or anyone that wants to pay the price they are asking for one.  Afterall, it's your money.  But besides price, I also like the fact that I don't have to take the sight off the mount to change the battery on the Tasco like you do with the Burris.


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## Ricochet (May 3, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> I know Burris makes some good ones, but I can buy 3 of these Tasco open dot multi sights for what a guy would pay for one Burris Fast Fire.  And I would bet money that 1 of these Tasco sights will last just as long as a Burris Fast Fire and th3 Tasco will hold its zero just as good as the Burris Fast Fire.  Now that's not knocking Burris or anyone that wants to pay the price they are asking for one.  Afterall, it's your money.  But besides price, I also like the fact that I don't have to take the sight off the mount to change the battery on the Tasco like you do with the Burris.


The FastFire 3 has the battery on top, so you don't have to take it off the mount now.  Of these red dot scopes (they're all very similar in design), Burris makes the most affordable one but you can go cheap with the Tasco alternative if that's what floats your boat.


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## Brad C. (May 3, 2013)

The only drawback to the Tasco is it sits a little higher than the Burris Fast Fire.  That's why I added the Bear Tooth comb kit.  But I got the thinnest pad from the kit installed on top of my stock.  But I have yet to get this Tasco to shift from its zero from shooting heavy turkey loads.  I do think Burris is making quite a bit off the Fast Fires.  But competition will eventually bring them down.


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## Ricochet (May 4, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> The only drawback to the Tasco is it sits a little higher than the Burris Fast Fire.  That's why I added the Bear Tooth comb kit.  But I got the thinnest pad from the kit installed on top of my stock.  But I have yet to get this Tasco to shift from its zero from shooting heavy turkey loads.  I do think Burris is making quite a bit off the Fast Fires.  But competition will eventually bring them down.


I'm sure all makers are making money off their scopes - that's business for ya.  As for shifting off zero, I have never seen that happen with mine and it is a rare occurrence - plus Burris's customer service is good as seen on the Gobbler Nation forum.


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## Huntinfool (May 6, 2013)

All I know to say is I've had one of the original fast fires on my gun for many years now and it is the single greatest thing I've added to my arsenal in many years.

It does not matter if my head is perfectly down, I'm at a wierd angle because I have to lean out or any other portential aiming issue.  Once it's sighted in with the pattern of the gun....red dot goes on turkey's neck...trigger is pulled....turkey dies.  End of story.

It does not affect field of vision in the least and I have 100% confidence that, if a bird is in range and the dot goes on him, he is dead.


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## 01Foreman400 (May 6, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> All I know to say is I've had one of the original fast fires on my gun for many years now and it is the single greatest thing I've added to my arsenal in many years.
> 
> It does not matter if my head is perfectly down, I'm at a wierd angle because I have to lean out or any other portential aiming issue.  Once it's sighted in with the pattern of the gun....red dot goes on turkey's neck...trigger is pulled....turkey dies.  End of story.
> 
> It does not affect field of vision in the least and I have 100% confidence that, if a bird is in range and the dot goes on him, he is dead.



Exactly!


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## goblr77 (May 6, 2013)

As long as I can still see a bead and it shoots to POA that's what I will use. Less to go wrong in the turkey woods is better IMO.


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## Burney Mac (May 6, 2013)

goblr77 said:


> As long as I can still see a bead and it shoots to POA that's what I will use. Less to go wrong in the turkey woods is better IMO.



Roger that.


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## Ricochet (May 6, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> All I know to say is I've had one of the original fast fires on my gun for many years now and it is the single greatest thing I've added to my arsenal in many years.
> 
> It does not matter if my head is perfectly down, I'm at a wierd angle because I have to lean out or any other portential aiming issue.  Once it's sighted in with the pattern of the gun....red dot goes on turkey's neck...trigger is pulled....turkey dies.  End of story.
> 
> It does not affect field of vision in the least and I have 100% confidence that, if a bird is in range and the dot goes on him, he is dead.


Well said!


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## Brad C. (May 6, 2013)

Hey I'm glad you guys like your Fast Fire's.  More power to you for spending the money to get one.  All I'm saying is there are other dot sights on the market that have a lifetime warranty to boot, and you could buy 2 or 3 of them for other guns for what you pay for one Burris.  And they work just as good.


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## Huntinfool (May 7, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> I do think Burris is making quite a bit off the Fast Fires.  But competition will eventually bring them down.



Tell that to the Dr Optics folks or Leupold! 

Burris is mid-level as far as pricing goes on this type of sight.  I'm glad you like your Tasco and I'm sure it works just fine and is perfectly effective.  But it's not in the same class.  Your field of vision is limited with that sight whether you are aware of it or not.

Sometime, with a turkey call, you may or may not get what you pay for.  But, generally speaking...with optics...you almost always get what you pay for IMO.


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## Ricochet (May 7, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Tell that to the Dr Optics folks or Leupold!
> 
> Burris is mid-level as far as pricing goes on this type of sight.  I'm glad you like your Tasco and I'm sure it works just fine and is perfectly effective.  But it's not in the same class.  Your field of vision is limited with that sight whether you are aware of it or not.
> 
> Sometime, with a turkey call, you may or may not get what you pay for.  But, generally speaking...with optics...you almost always get what you pay for IMO.



LOL and true statements especially the "you get what you pay" for statement.


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## Brad C. (May 7, 2013)

Well that's kind of like the arguement the top end Benelli shotguns are the way to go when it comes to shotguns and turkey hunting.  Some think they got to have a $1500 shotgun when it comes to their turkey hunting equipment, too, but a guy can go to wally world and buy a Moss 835 for under $400 that will whip those Benelli's when it comes to shooting the best turkey patterns and will kill turkeys just as good or better than those high end Benelli's.  Performance does'nt always cost the most vs what you get for your money.  You got to weigh perfomace vs cost.  And the 835's gonna win every time no matter how you slice it.  It's a want vs need thing to some.


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## Huntinfool (May 7, 2013)

I don't see it that way at all.  I'm making the argument that you get what you pay for in optics, not in shotguns.  There are lots of variables that can be manipulated with shotguns from shells to chokes to custom work.  It's much more difficult to have firearm optics custom made or customized (and much more expensive).  Because of that, it's a whole lot more cost effective to spend the money on the front end for a superior product.

A tubular enclosed red dot is in no way comparable to the open viewing area you get with a fastfire, Dr or other similar sight.  They are superior in that you retain your full field of vision.  When hunting turkeys vision and lack of movement are priorities #1 and #2.  

I do agree with you on this though; they will all kill turkeys....so will a long bow.  But I'd rather have a shotgun in my hands because it's the most effective tool for the job.


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## Brad C. (May 7, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> A tubular enclosed red dot is in no way comparable to the open viewing area you get with a fastfire, Dr or other similar sight.  They are superior in that you retain your full field of vision.  When hunting turkeys vision and lack of movement are priorities #1 and #2.



Who said anything about tubular sight?  I have been that route and didn't like it.  

Here's my setup.  It works perfectly and it won't shift zero regardless of how many turkey loads you shoot.  Like I said, I can buy 3 of these Tasco open dot sights for 1 Burris FF.  And I bet money the Tasco will last as long and I also don't have to take my sight off to change the battery like you do on the earlier models Burris made.  Lifetime warranty and it looks good.   It has a red and green color option with 4 different reticles and 5 brightness settings.  I posted this earlier, but I guess you didn't see it.


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## cowhornedspike (May 7, 2013)

Brad I'll make a challenge to you.  Next year, one week before opening day, we both turn our sights on and leave them on that entire week and then hunt opening day without changing the battery or having a spare with us...I'm willing to do it with my FF,  are you with your tasco?


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## Brad C. (May 7, 2013)

cowhornedspike said:


> Brad I'll make a challenge to you.  Next year, one week before opening day, we both turn our sights on and leave them on that entire week and then hunt opening day without changing the battery or having a spare with us...I'm willing to do it with my FF,  are you with your tasco?



Yep.  

I already been told by a TruGlo rep that the battery life on the Tasco open dot sight is around 200hrs or so.  And regardless even if the Burris FF can go longer than mine is really moot, due to the fact that batteies are cheap compared to the price difference I saved buying the Tasco.  

And there you have the rest of the story.


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## sman (May 7, 2013)

I had one on my Maxus.  Loved the way the gun shoots so I took it opening day of dove season.  Couldn't hit squat with FF2.  I killed 3 turkeys with it last yr.

But that got me thinking. ..what if the bird is running.   So I took it off.  First bird I shot this yr was running.  

I put it on my sons 20.  He shoots still targets a lot better with it.

As for battery life, seems to last forever.  Used it all season last yr.  Then my son left it on for 3 days.  Still bright.


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## swalker1517 (May 7, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Yep.
> 
> I already been told by a TruGlo rep that the battery life on the Tasco open dot sight is around 200hrs or so.  And regardless even if the Burris FF can go longer than mine is really moot, due to the fact that batteies are cheap compared to the price difference I saved buying the Tasco.
> 
> And there you have the rest of the story.



I put a Tasco on my sons 20ga and I carry and extra battery in my vest. I put a new one in at the start of the season and its still running. As far as cost, 5 bucks for 2 batteries and they'll last all season. We turn it on in the morning and it'll last till 10 or so before we turn it off.


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## Huntinfool (May 8, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Who said anything about tubular sight?  I have been that route and didn't like it.



When I look at your sight, I see an enclosed sight.  You're required to focus through that inch or two of sight.  That's what I mean.  You are losing field of vision vs the more expensive versions.  That doesn't make your sight less of a sight and doesn't make you less of a turkey hunter.  It's just a reality of the difference between the styles of sights.

That sight is a fine sight I'm sure.  It just has some disadvantages to the FF, Dr and others.  Personally, I'm willing to pay up a little for that particular piece of equipment because I feel the advantage is worth the cost.  It's not a must, it's a preference.  

In my mind a super accurate gun with soft recoil and a superior optic is preferable any day to a super accurate "kicks like an angry mule" gun with a sufficient optic.  But both will kill turkeys all day long.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

I see what your saying but stop and think about what your saying.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Fast Fires have an enclosure, too, for they are enclosed with aluminum around the glass.  Once you look though the Fast Fire your still not gonna see around that aluminum unless you can somehow poke your head through the glass.  And we know that ain't gonna happen.


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## Huntinfool (May 8, 2013)

the FF and Dr have a metal ring that is about as wide as the frame on glasses.   Not much wider than the actual glass it's surrounding.

When you look through it with both eyes open it's like seeing as if you had glasses on.  Your eyes don't know the "frame" is there.  All they see is wide open space with a red dot in the middle.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

Yea but it's not as close to your eye like a pair of glasses on your nose is.  

Try this and maybe you will get what I am saying to you.  Put your hand in front of either eye you care to use about say 4" in front of your face(about the exact same distance your eye would be from your sight).  Now with that same hand take your thumb and forefinger and make a round circle to look through.  Now take note of what you see thorugh that circle.  Now start bringing down your other 3 fingers to that circle and see if you have any better field of view through that hole or circle.  

Now you should see my drift.


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## jonboy (May 8, 2013)

What huntinfool is basically saying is that sights like fastfire, etc. are made for quick target acquisition.... That's what reflex type sights are made for and lightweight, larger sight picture etc.... over tube style scopes.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

I see what he is trying to say but he is incorrect if I can use that word nicely.  Try what I said above.  Your not going to see any more with the Burris than what I see with my Tasco that is built like a Burris.  The only thing you will see is a difference at the checkout.


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## fishnfool (May 8, 2013)

I am using a Mueller and after a season with it I will never have a turkey gun without one. I left mine on one weekend the next weekend it was still burning but I didn't chance it and replaced the battery. The Mueller has a auto dimmer so I'm not sure if it was real bright in the case or dim. Either way I would feel very confident in turning it on for an entire hunt but I haven't had an issue turning on during the hunt...if a bird responds I turn it on before I start working the him. And my next sight will definitely be another Mueller.


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## Huntinfool (May 8, 2013)

I understand.  A Mossy with a Tasco (which, surprisingly, is the setup you use) is the perfect turkey hunting combination.  

Brad, I'm glad you like your setup.  I'm 100% positive that the Tasco is a fine optic.  Your Tasco is not the same sight as a FF or a Dr (or similar) just for less money.  It's like saying a Zeiss or Swarovski scope is just a really expensive Simmons or Bushnell.  Same function, very different quality and efficiency.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

If your talking optics which means glass on the more expensive scopes, I agree with you.  I used to have Weaver T36 scope on a benchrest rifle that was made for driving tacks.  I didn't buy cheap for a $2500 22 rifle.  But that's talking pinpoint accuracy.  On a shotgun we are not talking about pinpoint accuracy and need all the fancy bells and whistles that you need on a benchrest gun for precision everything.  Then I would agree with you.  And I still do to a point agree the Burris probably is a better sight than mine for better quality.  But if you weigh in the cost feature the Tasco sight I have is the better deal for a turkey gun.   But we are not driving tacks with our shotguns turkey hunting like I used to do with my Weaver T36 on my benchrest 22 that by the way would shoot like this.


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## Huntinfool (May 8, 2013)

I'm sure the Tasco is a fine sight.  I wouldn't personally put one on a turkey gun I own when I can have a better piece of equipment for not a ton of money.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> I'm sure the Tasco is a fine sight.  I wouldn't personally put one on a turkey gun I own when I can have a better piece of equipment for not a ton of money.



Whatever floats your boat.  That is why everyone has their opinions in this world.  It all depends on what your final outcome is.  Again if we are talking true precision then I want a true precision built scope with all the bells and whistles.  We are talking about a 20" pattern say at 40yds with a shotgun pattern, and if that patterns shoots to within a couple inches everytime from being to center of your aiming point then that's all you need in a turkey sight or scope.

We will just have to agree to disagree.


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## nhancedsvt (May 8, 2013)

I'll chime in. There's a HUGE difference between that Tasco and a sight like the FF. IMO with that Tasco you're getting more into a scope style sight. Meaning you have to make sure your cheek is down on the gun and you're looking through it straight on, probably even have to close one eye. With my FF I can sit to the side of my gun and as long as I can see the dot then I'll hit my target.

Also Brad, your example is flawed. You failed to account for the optic/dot being at the back of the tube. Try it this way, make that same circle with your thumb and forefinger (this is the glass of the optic). Now make a circle with your opposite fist and put it in front of your finger circle. Try to tell me you don't lose field of vision. That's essentially what the "tube" on the Tru-Glo does.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

Well again if you like the Burris then more power to you.  There are other options out there that cost less that will serve the same purpose as the Burris.  I can shoot shot after shot with any shotgun that has a Burris and my Tasco won't shift from its zero once it's sighted in with the load your shooting.  Again it 3 times less than the  Fast Fires and Fast Fires aren't giving you 3 times the difference in what it does over the Tasco for turkey hunting purposes.  We can go on and on about the Burris is this or the Burris is that, but the whole point is the Tasco will serve the exact same purpose for 3 times less the cost.  And it will last just as long.


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## nhancedsvt (May 8, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Well again if you like the Burris then more power to you.  There are other options out there that cost less that will serve the same purpose as the Burris.  I can shoot shot after shot with any shotgun that has a Burris and my Tasco won't shift from its zero once it's sighted in with the load your shooting.  Again it 3 times less than the  Fast Fires and Fast Fires aren't giving you 3 times the difference in what it does over the Tasco for turkey hunting purposes.  We can go on and on about the Burris is this or the Burris is that, but the whole point is the Tasco will serve the exact same purpose for 3 times less the cost.  And it will last just as long.



If the Tasco served the EXACT same purpose with the EXACT same quality and the EXACT same durability than it and the FF would sell for the same price, or one would go out of business. I'm not saying your Tasco won't work, I'm sure it does fine, BUT there's a reason it cost three times less than the FF. If you're happy with it then that's all that matters, but it's not the same product, not even close.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> I'll chime in. There's a HUGE difference between that Tasco and a sight like the FF. IMO with that Tasco you're getting more into a scope style sight. Meaning you have to make sure your cheek is down on the gun and you're looking through it straight on, probably even have to close one eye. With my FF I can sit to the side of my gun and as long as I can see the dot then I'll hit my target.
> 
> Also Brad, your example is flawed. You failed to account for the optic/dot being at the back of the tube. Try it this way, make that same circle with your thumb and forefinger (this is the glass of the optic). Now make a circle with your opposite fist and put it in front of your finger circle. Try to tell me you don't lose field of vision. That's essentially what the "tube" on the Tru-Glo does.



And I tried your example and there is no difference.  It's the exact same principle of looking through a tube scope .  Your eye is going to see what it sees through the scope regardless of what eye you use.  If the circle stays the same in your example, there is no difference in your field of view.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> If the Tasco served the EXACT same purpose with the EXACT same quality and the EXACT same durability than it and the FF would sell for the same price, or one would go out of business. I'm not saying your Tasco won't work, I'm sure it does fine, BUT there's a reason it cost three times less than the FF. If you're happy with it then that's all that matters, but it's not the same product, not even close.



And again your entitled to your opinion.  I know several guys now that have bought this same Tasco dot sight I have on another forum and swear by it.  One of them even told me that I can't believe some would pay the $200 and something  for the Fast Fires when this Tasco is 3 times less and does the exact same purpose.  

So again let's just agree to disagree.


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## 01Foreman400 (May 8, 2013)

With the Docter and Burris sights you can get a mount that is lower and cleaner looking.  Plus the Docter and Burris are a lot smaller as well.


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## Brad C. (May 8, 2013)

And I agree with the Burris FF's set lower.  That is a plus.  But that is why I put the Beartooth comb kit on my stock.  I used the thinnest pad in the kit and it centers my eye to the sight perfectly and still allowing me to keep cheek contact with the top of the pad on my gun.


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## cowhornedspike (May 9, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Yep.
> 
> I already been told by a TruGlo rep that the battery life on the Tasco open dot sight is around 200hrs or so.  And regardless even if the Burris FF can go longer than mine is really moot, due to the fact that batteies are cheap compared to the price difference I saved buying the Tasco.
> 
> And there you have the rest of the story.



You are correct in all your claims here and the TG is exactly as good as the FF for waaaay less money.




BTW, If we ever hunt together I'll try to remember to bring the extra battery for you so you can change your battery while I shoot the turkey.


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## Brad C. (May 9, 2013)

cowhornedspike said:


> You are correct in all your claims here and the TG is exactly as good as the FF for waaaay less money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll bring the Stove Top Stuffing!


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## Huntinfool (May 10, 2013)

01Foreman400 said:


> With the Docter and Burris sights you can get a mount that is lower and cleaner looking.  Plus the Docter and Burris are a lot smaller as well.



Boy did you wast money on that $1500 Benelli and $500 Dr.

Everyone knows a "kicks like a mule" Mossy and a Tasco are far superior.


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## Brad C. (May 10, 2013)

That's a nice gun and dot sight.  

And please don't try to make what I said into a fun factory.  I still stand by what I said.  You disagree and that is fine by me.  It's just like talking about houses.  Some may want a million dollar mansion.  And if you  got the money to blow that's fine by me.  But most are happy living with their $150,000 home or less.


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## mossyoakpro (May 11, 2013)

I had to go to some sort of optic 2 years ago due to the fact that I could not focus on the bead on the barrel anymore due to my eyesight leaving me when I hit the 40+ age group.

My first optic was the Truglo Gobble Stopper with the integrated saddle mount to fit my 11-87....I am still using it today on the same battery that I put in it from the get go.  I do not however turn the sight on until I setup and get ready to hunt...it has become 2nd nature just like roughing up a friction call when you sit down.  I am now the owner of 2 Fastfire sights, both the Fastfire and Truglo are great sights.  I would recommend either one to someone that needs to go the optics route.....like has been said on here already, get the best sight that you can afford and keep an extra battery with you just for piece of mind.


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## Clubrcr (May 19, 2013)

I was trying to decide if i needed to upgrade to a red dot for next year's season and found this thread. It seem you guys got off topic. It isn't about the cost, I thought it was...do you need one.

I did spend the money for a Benelli SBE II, and have shot three birds at 59-60 yards dead. I have a friend that hunts with a Mossberg and can't seem to get a clean shot at 40 yards. I think the distance is more about the shooter, choke and shells. We can debate about shotguns all day long.

What I was curious about, is does a red dot help. I was curious if it really helped you dial the shot in more like a rifle? 

I shot a bird at 40 yards this year right at daylight, it ws kind of foggy and I don't think I lined up my iron sights as well as a should have and for the first time, shot it in the body, just a little lower than the neck. This made me start thinking about the red dot and would that have been prevented. 

Instead of debating the cost of the red dot, and the shotguns, can someone chime in on my question?

I am very confident with my shotgun and my ability to get a bird and I don't want to screw that up.


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## Killdee (May 19, 2013)

Clubrcr said:


> I was trying to decide if i needed to upgrade to a red dot for next year's season and found this thread. It seem you guys got off topic. It isn't about the cost, I thought it was...do you need one.
> 
> I did spend the money for a Benelli SBE II, and have shot three birds at 59-60 yards dead. I have a friend that hunts with a Mossberg and can't seem to get a clean shot at 40 yards. I think the distance is more about the shooter, choke and shells. We can debate about shotguns all day long.
> 
> ...



Well a shotgun is never going to be dialed in like a rifle, Temp, weather conditions and wind cause slight shifts in patterns and may cause an off shot as well as human error. With  iron sights, there is still a need to line up 3 points of aim, with a single bead theres still the need to get your eye down on the bead, if not you run the risk of shooting high and over the bird. A red dot, as long as you have it sighted in properly, if you have the dot on the killing spot when your trigger breaks, it will hit where your aiming.
Good luck


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## Ricochet (May 19, 2013)

Clubrcr said:


> I was trying to decide if i needed to upgrade to a red dot for next year's season and found this thread. It seem you guys got off topic. It isn't about the cost, I thought it was...do you need one.
> 
> I did spend the money for a Benelli SBE II, and have shot three birds at 59-60 yards dead. I have a friend that hunts with a Mossberg and can't seem to get a clean shot at 40 yards. I think the distance is more about the shooter, choke and shells. We can debate about shotguns all day long.
> 
> ...


Your question was answered, but I guess it got lost in the thread when it went off topic.

Bottom-line; red dot scopes do help - aiming is easier as described earlier in this thread.  Do you need one? That is up to you...if you are happy with your current shotgun and sights setup than stick with it.


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## Clubrcr (May 19, 2013)

Ricochet said:


> Your question was answered, but I guess it got lost in the thread when it went off topic.



Actually, it wasn't. I read through everyone's post. What I got from what read was:

1) red dot was easier to aim
2) red dot scopes were a little tougher to use than the open optic, since you could still have your peripheral vision
3) keep batteries, as they might or might not run out
4) it might, or might not matter how much you spend on the optic

Honestly, you are right. I think the bottom line would be.....the actual need for a red dot will vary from one person to the next. I would imagine it would vary to the degree of success you might have with the set up you are using. If you are using a red dot and harvesting birds, you'll recommend it. If you shoot them regularly without it, you will continue.


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## Ricochet (May 19, 2013)

Clubrcr said:


> Actually, it wasn't. I read through everyone's post. What I got from what read was:
> 
> 1) red dot was easier to aim
> 2) red dot scopes were a little tougher to use than the open optic, since you could still have your peripheral vision
> ...


OK, and I guess you mean an open optic is the Burris FastFire type of red dot scope.

It sounds like you have found your answer i.e. stick with your current setup.


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## grayfox (May 19, 2013)

X2 on the TruGlo Tru-Brite Open Multi Sight.  Brad is shooting you straight on this one.  Usually you get what you pay for in most things.  But this truly is a good sight.  Not saying it's better than a Burris Fastfire or any of the others but it does the job & does it well.  Red dots are great for anyone but for older eyes like mine they are gold.  Used mine this year & was not sure about a red dot but I don't think I'll ever go back to plain sights.  Whatever brand you go with, get an open type style, not a tube type.  You can keep both eyes open on the open style which is great for a follow-up shot if needed.  Good luck whichever you choose.


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## Huntinfool (May 21, 2013)

The answer to the question is yes, a red dot is WAY more accurate (or probably better worded....consistent) than open sights.

Why?  Forgiveness.  The dot is not affected by your eye position like open sights are.  It will forgive "less than perfect" alingnment on the gun...which we've all done.


Dot goes on head...pattern goes where eye sees dot.  Not the same with a bead on the end of a gun or sights.


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## M Sharpe (May 21, 2013)

Ordered mine today from Midway, should be here next Tuesday. Now I've got to get my receiver tapped which should be no problem.


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## boothy (May 21, 2013)

I shoot the Williams slugger fiber optic sights.


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## mossyoakpro (May 21, 2013)

M Sharpe said:


> Ordered mine today from Midway, should be here next Tuesday. Now I've got to get my receiver tapped which should be no problem.



Mark, as close as you are to Sumtoy you should let him do your D&T.  William does a great job.


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## M Sharpe (May 21, 2013)

mossyoakpro said:


> Mark, as close as you are to Sumtoy you should let him do your D&T.  William does a great job.



That's who I had in mind.


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## Mark K (May 21, 2013)

> The answer to the question is yes, a red dot is WAY more accurate (or probably better worded....consistent) than open sights.
> 
> Why? Forgiveness. The dot is not affected by your eye position like open sights are. It will forgive "less than perfect" alingnment on the gun...which we've all done.
> 
> ...




Okay, what have you been smoking?? If the sights aren't lined up on his head of course you'll miss. ***NEWSFLASH*** If the red dot is not on the turkeys head - you'll miss too!!!

I must be the only one here that had a BB gun as a kid! And mine didn't come with a red/green/blue/purple dot either!


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## Brad C. (May 21, 2013)

grayfox,

Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad you like that TruGlo sight.  I tired to be as honest as I could here, and I know I took some good hits from the Burris guys.  And I know they have to really like them, and that's why they stand up for what they know works.  And I'm sure the Burris had I bought one I would be saying the exact same thing had I been on the other end here.  So I can respect all what these guys have said.


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## grayfox (May 21, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> grayfox,
> 
> Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad you like that TruGlo sight.  I tired to be as honest as I could here, and I know I took some good hits from the Burris guys.  And I know they have to really like them, and that's why they stand up for what they know works.  And I'm sure the Burris had I bought one I would be saying the exact same thing had I been on the other end here.  So I can respect all what these guys have said.



You're welcome.  I got me another one to go on my Mossberg 535.  Right now I'm having the trigger lightened up on it.  It was a little too hard for my liking.


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## Huntinfool (May 21, 2013)

Mark K said:


> Okay, what have you been smoking?? If the sights aren't lined up on his head of course you'll miss. ***NEWSFLASH*** If the red dot is not on the turkeys head - you'll miss too!!!
> 
> I must be the only one here that had a BB gun as a kid! And mine didn't come with a red/green/blue/purple dot either!



Boy did I learn a lesson here!  I forgot the number one rule:  Never match wits with a Sicilian...ESPECIALLY when DEATH is on the line!

I'm not really going to waste my time educating you on this.  Google is your friend.


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## Brad C. (May 21, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> The answer to the question is yes, a red dot is WAY more accurate (or probably better worded....consistent) than open sights.
> 
> Why?  Forgiveness.  The dot is not affected by your eye position like open sights are.  It will forgive "less than perfect" alingnment on the gun...which we've all done.
> 
> ...



And I would agree with that.


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## Brad C. (May 21, 2013)

grayfox said:


> You're welcome.  I got me another one to go on my Mossberg 535.  Right now I'm having the trigger lightened up on it.  It was a little too hard for my liking.



Dang you must really like them.  I would like to put one on my 870, but I want to keep it the way it is without having to drill and tap the receiver since it shoots pretty close to deadnut with open bead.  But there's no doubt in my mind the red dot would be more accurate.


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## grayfox (May 21, 2013)

Brad C. said:


> Dang you must really like them.  I would like to put one on my 870, but I want to keep it the way it is without having to drill and tap the receiver since it shoots pretty close to deadnut with open bead.  But there's no doubt in my mind the red dot would be more accurate.



I've been using a saddle mount on mine & so far it's been good.  You can see it in the photos on a previous post farther up the threads.  I have been thinking about getting it tapped but right now I've been messing with the Mossberg.


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## Brad C. (May 21, 2013)

Yea I see that now.  Those are about $40 I believe.  Hey if it works that's all that matters.  Looks good.


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## Clubrcr (May 22, 2013)

I wanted to thank everyone's who responded to this thread. I found it very interesting. I purchased a red dot yesterday and hopefully will be sighting it in this weekend. The bad news is Turkey season is so far away.


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