# Clunking hardwood floor....



## Jeff C. (Dec 23, 2016)

I say clunking, but there is a spot or two where it squeaks instead. 

ONLY in the cooler months when the house contracts.

I know what it is and how to fix it, but not as easy as I thought: Go into crawl space and tap shims between floor joists and subfloor.

I played with a spot the other day and it seemed to take more shims than expected to silence a relatively small area.....maybe 4 sq ft./8 shims just tapped in.

Having to remove insulation then replace, not to mention figuring out exactly where to place the shims.

I was wondering if placing a few screws sized in a length that would go through the subfloor and into hardwood, but not through it would be better?

Either way a pain in the butt, but would pulling down on the hardwood be better than pushing up on the subfloor to prevent the clunking in cold weather?

Appreciate some expert advice, thanks.


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## Lukikus2 (Dec 23, 2016)

I have used finish nails that have the serations on them and nailed from the top with great success. Use the colored nails and they aren't even noticeable.


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## Jeff C. (Dec 23, 2016)

Lukikus2 said:


> I have used finish nails that have the serations on them and nailed from the top with great success. Use the colored nails and they aren't even noticeable.



I'm going to seriously consider that, Luki. 

Heck, if I did that I could probably end it in about an hour today. I've got a very small diameter punch and could even embed them a tad.


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## greg_n_clayton (Dec 23, 2016)

You will need to drill a pilot hole threw the flooring. They call it "hard"wood fer a reason !!


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## T-N-T (Dec 23, 2016)

Depending on how "weathered" your floor is and how noticable it will be, they make a "trim" screw with a very small head.  Then put some colored putty in hole.  Both available at Lowe's or home depot


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## elfiii (Dec 23, 2016)

I would keep on shimming up the subfloor before I face nailed the hardwood floor but that's just me.


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## Jeff C. (Dec 23, 2016)

greg_n_clayton said:


> You will need to drill a pilot hole threw the flooring. They call it "hard"wood fer a reason !!



Copy that Greg, I installed it originally and I bet it's even harder now, almost 17 years later.



TopherAndTick said:


> Depending on how "weathered" your floor is and how noticable it will be, they make a "trim" screw with a very small head.  Then put some colored putty in hole.  Both available at Lowe's or home depot



Yessir TnT, I've got some trim screws, but too long.



elfiii said:


> I would keep on shimming up the subfloor before I face nailed the hardwood floor but that's just me.



I would prefer to do that, but Dadgum Lee....it's not terrible, but widespread. The other issue that was hindering me is my framer stuck that subfloor down very well to the joists with liquid nails. I had several spots in that little 4' sq area that I couldn't even tap a wedge in without breaking it.

Also, along the walls the first 2-3 runs are nailed straight through initially to hold it in place before going to town driving the tongue and groove together and nailing.

Appreciate y'all opinions, it will influence my decision one way or another.

Im heading to HD now to pickup all the necessary supplies for any method possible.


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## Patriot44 (Dec 23, 2016)

I had something similar but more because the span was 15 feet with no support beneath the floor joist. I basically built a wall perpendicular to the joist and wedged between the ground and bottom of the floor joist. I made it a little long so that it would snug up the sag. Been almost ten years now and holding up good.


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 23, 2016)

Maybe some short screws from sub floor up into the hardwood. I fixed a spot like that at the old house and worked like a charm.


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## Jeff C. (Dec 23, 2016)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Maybe some short screws from sub floor up into the hardwood. I fixed a spot like that at the old house and worked like a charm.



Starting to lean in that direction tree cutter, thanks.


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## Lukikus2 (Dec 23, 2016)

Hard to say without pics. Like Patriot was saying, floor joist supports. Jacked up a many joists in barns because they were settling. If you are putting in shims it will just push the joist down farther. There has to be a solid platform for the floor to begin with.


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## Rivershot (Dec 24, 2016)

Build a "Drop Sill", basically a header under the joists. Use footer pads or those deck pads for 4x4s level them up and put in screw jacks. 

 Inside. Take 2 2x4 pieces with a string maid too them and pull it over the span you are supporting and use another small 2x4 to slide under the string as you jack it up to get it even. Start there and let it settle a week or 2 and then adjust as needed, might even have to add another jack in a stubborn spot.


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## Rivershot (Dec 24, 2016)

One other thing is the humidity in your crawl space, if it is to high or varies a lot season to season you may need to try and control it some.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 24, 2016)

Pin nailer from the top down. You'll never know they're there.


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## fish hawk (Dec 24, 2016)

Finish nails,brad nails and things of that sort are not going to fix your problem,there not strong enough,will quickly back out and have no holding power.I've repaired a heap of squeaking floors and most of the time its either two sheets of plywood rubbing together on the edges or nails rubbing on the plywood as you walk across the area.If it is indeed contracting then whats gonna happen to the floor where the shims are when it starts to expand again?I'm assuming it's a nail down installation?If so it's not that difficult to pull up the floor in the area that your having problems and fixing it the right way,as long as you have some of the original flooring left over.You dont really want to run a screw down thru the flooring into the subfloor or vise versa as this will probably not fix the problem,but you could try it first .


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## GA native (Dec 24, 2016)

The squeak you hear is wood rubbing against nails. Don't use nails, unless they are ring shank. Driving more smooth nails will only make more squeaks. And unless you can hit a floor joist, it will do you no good anyway. Plywood doesn't hold nails.

You have 3/4" subfloor, and 3/4" hardwood finished floor. You could try some 1 1/4" framing screws up from the bottom. Be sure to predrill the hole, so you do not bust out the hardwood.

Trim screws work well, if you hit the joist.

You could drill some holes through from the top, and use an 1/8" screw, washer, and nut, and bolt the finished floor to the subfloor. You would have to recess the head and fill it with putty. Minwax has color putties that blend well.

Since this only happens during the winter months, a humidifier in the living area would keep the wood from shrinking.

You could drill a small hole up through the subfloor, stopping when you penetrate the subfloor. Then take a caulk gun loaded with PL400 and fill the void.

I'm just spitballing here... I've never found wedging the subfloor up off of the joist to be a satisfactory fix. It just moves the squeak out a few feet.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 24, 2016)

You should try to identify the source. Several different types. If your framer just missed the joist, nail right down the side, the nail will squeak. If just needs bending away from the joist. Other times it's a moving joist. Going up and down as weight is added. This can be fixed usually with a shim beneath in the ledger notch or adding screws to the side of the joist. Often they are hard to locate. Once you think you are in the right spot, put your hand on the spot and you can feel it vibrate as it moves. Often it is only 1/16 to 1/8 of movement. It can also be the plywood moving in relation to the joist. When a floor is nailed during the building process, they often use air nailers and sometimes needs more air. Either this or moisture caused the plywood to expand thus in effect pulling the nail up, not actually, but now having a loose effect. So as you walk by the plywood sinks to the joist, squeaky as it moves on the nail. This can be fixed by pushing, not driving small wedges between the plywood and joist to stop the nail squeak. The next possibility is the hardwood squeak. You can usually feel with your hand the point of squeak if one board is moving against a stationary board. Or a board moving up and down because it was never actually down during installation leaving a void. In this case, I use 1 1/4 screws from the bottom, careful to never counter sink the screw because it will come up through the floor. I never use nails, even though they may work, they are another potential squeak. If you don't wish to go under, you can drill a 1/8 hole app 7/8 deep for 3/4 hardwood, blow out with air and "shoot" glue into the hole. But with a "grease gun" type of way to force glue in, otherwise it will never spread beneath. It needs to go in the depth of the hardwood and then mushroom out a little. They sell a thing that look like the tip that you use to pump a basketball, attached to a vile/syringe, either manual push or fitted to an air compressor


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## Bill Mc (Dec 24, 2016)

I like the "noise" Let me know when someone is coming. It used to stop the kids before time to get up on Christmas morning.


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## jimbo4116 (Dec 24, 2016)

1gr8bldr said:


> You should try to identify the source. Several different types. If your framer just missed the joist, nail right down the side, the nail will squeak. If just needs bending away from the joist. Other times it's a moving joist. Going up and down as weight is added. This can be fixed usually with a shim beneath in the ledger notch or adding screws to the side of the joist. Often they are hard to locate. Once you think you are in the right spot, put your hand on the spot and you can feel it vibrate as it moves. Often it is only 1/16 to 1/8 of movement. It can also be the plywood moving in relation to the joist. When a floor is nailed during the building process, they often use air nailers and sometimes needs more air. Either this or moisture caused the plywood to expand thus in effect pulling the nail up, not actually, but now having a loose effect. So as you walk by the plywood sinks to the joist, squeaky as it moves on the nail. This can be fixed by pushing, not driving small wedges between the plywood and joist to stop the nail squeak. The next possibility is the hardwood squeak. You can usually feel with your hand the point of squeak if one board is moving against a stationary board. Or a board moving up and down because it was never actually down during installation leaving a void. In this case, I use 1 1/4 screws from the bottom, careful to never counter sink the screw because it will come up through the floor. I never use nails, even though they may work, they are another potential squeak. If you don't wish to go under, you can drill a 1/8 hole app 7/8 deep for 3/4 hardwood, blow out with air and "shoot" glue into the hole. But with a "grease gun" type of way to force glue in, otherwise it will never spread beneath. It needs to go in the depth of the hardwood and then mushroom out a little. They sell a thing that look like the tip that you use to pump a basketball, attached to a vile/syringe, either manual push or fitted to an air compressor



Put a small washer on the screw to make sure it does not pull into the subfloor or joists.


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## RickyB (Dec 24, 2016)

My brother used this and was happy with results. He added wood glue using syringe like posted above then used these snap screws to draw it together.

One tip he gave me was to soap/wax the screw first. It goes in easier and doesn't cause premature snapping off of the screw head.

http://www.squeakyfloor.com/counter-snap/

I have hardwood throughout house with the same issue in hallway. But I also like knowing if someone is coming so the squeak will stay for now.


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## Jeff C. (Dec 24, 2016)

RickyB said:


> My brother used this and was happy with results. He added wood glue using syringe like posted above then used these snap screws to draw it together.
> 
> One tip he gave me was to soap/wax the screw first. It goes in easier and doesn't cause premature snapping off of the screw head.
> 
> ...



I got a dog that will bark if a deer is in the yard, when the dog is in the house. Don't need no squeaky floor. 

Appreciate the info on soap/wax....good idea.


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## Killdee (Dec 24, 2016)

The nail beside the joist is often the culprit like 1gr8 said. Way we find them is 1 guy on the floor making it squeek, other guy underneath  with a 3' section of water hose to use as a stethoscope to pinpoint the squeek. We have done the shim glue (liquid nails heavy duty)and screw from underneath most times.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 24, 2016)

LOL, I have one homeowner that calls every time they hear anything, even if it's one time only. Hunting for a ghost squeak can be frustrating.


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