# Obsession knightmare vs the bowtech Insanity



## preston h (May 8, 2013)

I know there is a lot of people shooting the obsession bows. these are two bows I have been looking at. I dont know much about the knightmare but I have shot the bowtech. I realy like the way the bowtech shot but there was some more vibration then expected I have a 29in draw and shot a fmj at 314 fps. that is crazy fast for that arrow just wanted to see what people thought about these two bows.


----------



## Fulldraw 64 (May 8, 2013)

Its all about what fits and feels good to you. What did that Easton fmj weigh? Just curious


----------



## Kris87 (May 8, 2013)

The Insanity is a proven bow.  The Knightmare seems to be the most talked about bow of '13, so it would seem to be a good choice too.  For me, I just can't shoot a bow that I might have to shim to tune.  The bowtech has the most tuneable cam system on any bow(even more than my beloved Hoyts ).  If you don't do any of your own work, these may not be variables for you to consider, but for me, they're at the top of my list.


----------



## Bow Only (May 9, 2013)

The Insanity wins on speed but the Knightmare wins on draw, valley, and wall.  It just depends on what you like in a bow.


----------



## preston h (May 9, 2013)

Fulldraw 64 said:


> Its all about what fits and feels good to you. What did that Easton fmj weigh? Just curious



I am not sure I know i have a 29 in draw and the field tip was about 1/2 in away from the rest. It was 100 gr field tip. and I  think it was a 340.


----------



## Gadestroyer74 (May 9, 2013)

Bowtech ..


----------



## pasinthrough (May 9, 2013)

Fulldraw 64 said:


> Its all about what fits and feels good to you.


 
^^^^^^

Exactly!  It's all what feels right to you.


----------



## spydermon (May 9, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> The Insanity is a proven bow.  The Knightmare seems to be the most talked about bow of '13.



on here anyways..swing by a.t. and search around some and ask more questions.  the insanity can be a pain to tune, then some tune very easily.


----------



## livetohunt (May 10, 2013)

spydermon said:


> on here anyways..swing by a.t. and search around some and ask more questions.  the insanity can be a pain to tune, then some tune very easily.



I love my insanity...Great bow...It did have to be tuned with a very slight cam lean though...


----------



## Kris87 (May 10, 2013)

spydermon said:


> on here anyways..swing by a.t. and search around some and ask more questions.  the insanity can be a pain to tune, then some tune very easily.



I read a lot on there.  There's no black magic when it comes to tuning a Bowtech.  I can promise there are far more people on AT that don't know how to tune a bow than ones that do.


----------



## Tracker1 (May 11, 2013)

Since being purchased by Savage Arms BowTechs customer service has been on a sharp decline. Their dipping process has had problems, but when asked about the issue being corrected this year at the ATA show the 2 reps said that they had not heard about the problem! I've literally seen no less than 50 replacement limbs sent from BowTech to correct this problem yet the reps have never heard of it? Come on..... On 2 new Assassins last year the cable track ripped off the side of the cam, the second one caused a pretty nasty cut on the shooter requiring several stitches, he had to threaten to sue for medical bills before they would make it right. They even refused to fix a bow for one of there own factory shooters last year after his limb cracked, that's unheard of!

I hate that it has gotten to this point with BowTech, I have been very impressed with some of their bows in the past and even owned a few so I'm not a "brand hater" by no means. 

I haven't had a chance to deal Obsessions customer service yet. I would think that if there were a problem with it you would have heard a little chatter somewhere by now.

If I were going to drop a grand on a new bow customer service would be a big factor for me!

As for tuning, the very nature of a binary cam system makes them more time consuming to tune, not more difficult just more time consuming. A true 2 cam system like on the Obsession Bows offer their own obstacles but also tune up nicely. Shimming a 2 cam system is nothing new, has been done for years so its not that Obsession is doing anything wrong. Both bows can be tuned nicely.

As stated on here by several others, shoot them all, shoot them a lot, and then make your choice. Being brand specific these days only shorts yourself!


----------



## SWWTV (Jun 4, 2013)

Call Johnny at Chucks he has shot both side by side he knows both bows very well the store number is 478 922 9851


----------



## BOTTEMLINE (Jun 4, 2013)

Shot both brands if l had to choose it would be Obssesion..But l was raised on Hoyt and thats where im at..


----------



## 1crazybowhunter (Jun 5, 2013)

It's COOP at Nontypical Archery in Woodstock. I have an Insanity. The reason they call it Insanity is because you'd have to be insane to pay that much money for a bow...but I did anyway. I absolutely love the performance and accuracy of my Insanity. I've actually employed a few speed tricks that have yielded some unreal speeds. Although it's a 70 pound bow, I have it set at a very comfortable 64 pounds and since I'm a relatively short draw length of 28 inches, I'm behind the 8 ball as far as speed goes. Even so, using the recommended arrow for my setup from Goldtip which is a Velocity Pro 500, I'm getting 355 feet per second out of it! Like I said....64 pounds at a 28" draw....UNREAL !! Further, this thing is whisper quiet at the shot and as dead as a hammer in your hand. No shock, buzz, kick, no recoil of any kind. It's like it shouldn't have happened. It's a really weird feeling for a bow to be this fast and forgiving at the same time, every single shot. I've tuned and shot the Obsession Lethal Force and it's just as dead in the hand as the Insanity and it has letoff for days! Obsession's Knightmare is their screamer. If it's anything like it's predesessor the Lethal Force, and it is, it is everything the Insanity is and maybe a little more. I am a dealer for Obsession Bows and can get you one if you want it. Call me at 678-361-4106 and get your own SCREAMER !!  COOP


----------



## Millcreekfarms (Jun 8, 2013)

My cousin shoots Mathews in tournaments and they replaced his limbs just because there logo faded on the limbs best customer service on the market i shoot an MR7 Monster and just love it! It all depends on what you like shoot em both and pick the one that feels the best to you.


----------



## C Cape (Jun 8, 2013)

1crazybowhunter said:


> It's COOP at Nontypical Archery in Woodstock. I have an Insanity. The reason they call it Insanity is because you'd have to be insane to pay that much money for a bow...but I did anyway. I absolutely love the performance and accuracy of my Insanity. I've actually employed a few speed tricks that have yielded some unreal speeds. Although it's a 70 pound bow, I have it set at a very comfortable 64 pounds and since I'm a relatively short draw length of 28 inches, I'm behind the 8 ball as far as speed goes. Even so, using the recommended arrow for my setup from Goldtip which is a Velocity Pro 500, I'm getting 355 feet per second out of it! Like I said....64 pounds at a 28" draw....UNREAL !! Further, this thing is whisper quiet at the shot and as dead as a hammer in your hand. No shock, buzz, kick, no recoil of any kind. It's like it shouldn't have happened. It's a really weird feeling for a bow to be this fast and forgiving at the same time, every single shot. I've tuned and shot the Obsession Lethal Force and it's just as dead in the hand as the Insanity and it has letoff for days! Obsession's Knightmare is their screamer. If it's anything like it's predesessor the Lethal Force, and it is, it is everything the Insanity is and maybe a little more. I am a dealer for Obsession Bows and can get you one if you want it. Call me at 678-361-4106 and get your own SCREAMER !!  COOP



Not being a butt but I'd have to see it with my own eyes to believe your Insanity shooting 355FPS at 64* and 28" draw even with an arrow that is probably under 5 GPP.  I have tuned numerous Insanitys and most of them are a solid 352-354 FPS Bow at 30"/70* with a 350 Gr arrow with 15 gr on the string.  

Also, if Gold Tip recommended you shoot that arrow out of that bow then I wouldn't recommend asking that person there for arrow advice again as it's EXTREMELY underspined.


To the OP:  I have owned and sold both bows.  The only real advantage the Insanity has over the Knightmare is having dual yokes for tuning and being slightly faster on most bows.  The Knightmare is deader in the hand, quieter, and has a better back wall than the insanity.  Not to mention a 1/4" more brace height.

Dennis is an outstanding person and will go above and beyond to ever help if there is a problem.  I can't say Bowtech will do that time and time again.


----------



## Kris87 (Jun 8, 2013)

C Cape said:


> Not being a butt...The only real advantage the Insanity has over the Knightmare is having dual yokes for tuning and being slightly faster on most bows.



Not being a butt either.....but That's a pretty big reason.  The tuneabilitly of both Hoyts and Bowtechs is a big plus IMO.  Not saying binaries are bad, but you do have limited options unless you want to shim them if needed.


----------



## GTBHUNTIN (Jun 8, 2013)

knightmare hands down.  Smooth, quiet, fast, dead on the shot, and most solid wall I have ever shot.  I am shooting best groups I have ever shot.

gtbhuntin


----------



## C Cape (Jun 9, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> Not being a butt either.....but That's a pretty big reason.  The tuneabilitly of both Hoyts and Bowtechs is a big plus IMO.  Not saying binaries are bad, but you do have limited options unless you want to shim them if needed.



I love how you cut my quote down to include not being a butt when I didn't say it about that...


----------



## Kris87 (Jun 9, 2013)

That's not why I did...I did so that I wouldn't come across as a butt pointing out a tuning difference between it and other designs.  It seems people like it, but it is limited in its tuning capabilities compared to any bow with a yoke system.  Same for Elite and other brands as well.


----------



## Kris87 (Jun 9, 2013)

To clarify, I'm not saying the Knightmare is a bad bow.  It seems to be one of the most favored bows of 2013.  My comments are directed more at bow designs in general and how easy they are to tune.  Some are just easier and give more options.  Just my opinion.


----------



## C Cape (Jun 9, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> That's not why I did...I did so that I wouldn't come across as a butt pointing out a tuning difference between it and other designs.  It seems people like it, but it is limited in its tuning capabilities compared to any bow with a yoke system.  Same for Elite and other brands as well.



I agree 110% that its not as tunable as the OD Binary Bowtech's and that appeals to some of the select few here big into bows and the AT crowd. For your average guy it's not that big of a deal between the two. As long as they can kill deer with it, it performs, and shoots nice then they don't care how tunable it is IMO. 

Just to clarify I'm not an Obsession dealer. Sell Bowtech and Hoyt but the Knightmare is one of the top 3 bows for this year along with the Spyder and Experience IMO.


----------



## Kris87 (Jun 9, 2013)

C Cape said:


> I agree 110% that its not as tunable as the OD Binary Bowtech's and that appeals to some of the select few here big into bows and the AT crowd. For your average guy it's not that big of a deal between the two. As long as they can kill deer with it, it performs, and shoots nice then they don't care how tunable it is IMO.
> 
> Just to clarify I'm not an Obsession dealer. Sell Bowtech and Hoyt but the Knightmare is one of the top 3 bows for this year along with the Spyder and Experience IMO.



Good post. I agree.


----------



## 1crazybowhunter (Jun 10, 2013)

C Cape said:


> Not being a butt but I'd have to see it with my own eyes to believe your Insanity shooting 355FPS at 64* and 28" draw even with an arrow that is probably under 5 GPP.  I have tuned numerous Insanitys and most of them are a solid 352-354 FPS Bow at 30"/70* with a 350 Gr arrow with 15 gr on the string.
> 
> Also, if Gold Tip recommended you shoot that arrow out of that bow then I wouldn't recommend asking that person there for arrow advice again as it's EXTREMELY underspined.
> 
> ...



C Cape Ole buddy................check out the avatar.........HERE'S YOUR SIGN! I'd be more than happy to show it to you in person anytime you want.
COOP


----------



## C Cape (Jun 10, 2013)

Coop, I can take a spyder 30 and make it shoot 355 through my chrono with a light enough arrow. 

64*/28" draw with a 320 gr arrow would be 382 ibo to get 355 FPS


----------



## 1crazybowhunter (Jun 11, 2013)

C Cape,
   You are obviously a very intelligent and knowledgeable bow tuner. I respect and appreciate that very much. I also appreciate all the trouble you went to showing the calculation chart on your smart phone, wish I could afford one of those, anyway, with EVERYTHING set aside, here's the deal. I use the Goldtip Velocity exclusively. I've shot the pro 400 for years and it's never failed me. This time though, taking into consideration the performance of the Insanity, my draw length and the fact that I've ALWAYS had problems getting the kind of speed I wanted out of a bow BECAUSE OF MY SHORT DRAW LENGTH, I decided to go to a llighter arrow if I could match it to the criteria based on the Goldtip arrow selection chart. No person advised me on this, I chose from the chart. 
    Long story short, based on the 28 inch draw length and the poundage I wanted to shoot the bow at, I looked at the chart and it gave 2 choices, the velocity 400 or the 500. The 400 weighs 7.4 gpi the 500 weighs 6.3. They were both in the selection box for the criteria given. Understand? Go there and see it for yourself. So, I chose the lighter spined 500. I'm using a speed nock that weighs 5 grains, a speed insert that came with the 500 that weighs 12 grains, a 75 grain field tip or mechanical of the same weight to hunt with. I'm also using Blazer X 2 vanes that only weigh 4 grains each. My FOC is over 12%. Cut to the length that  fits my bow, with  the type rest I'm using, the total weight of the arrow is 274 grains. Now, the bow is using the recommended arrow by the chart at the draw length I am and the poundage I'm using. So again, at 64 pounds, 28 inch draw length, I'm cooking the chronograph at 355 fps. And to boot, it tuned absolutely perfect, shoots a perfect bullet hole through a paper tuning jig both at 10 feet and at distance, 12 yards. I've used those calculation charts before in my shop just out of curiosity and they have yet to match REAL WORLD SITUATIONS. But, if you are one of the ones that have to be bit on the butt to really believe that the shark is in the water..........I again offer to show you, IN PERSON ANYTIME YOU LIKE.  No offence intended here, just stating the FACTS. I, just like you are an experienced tuner and should know that you can't always go by what the book SAYS it's supposed to do because.........sometimes... it just doesn't JIVE. True enough, going by IBO standards, it's exactly 46 grains light for the poundage. Given the quality of the bow, the limb and riser material, I don't think I'll be doing any damage at all to it. It tunes and shoots perfectly in this scenario so I don't think the fact that the arrow is lighter than what IBO calls for will be a problem. Given the flatter trajectory, still no felt noise, buzz or recoil of any kind and it's whisper quiet, I don't think I'll be having ANY problems with it. What I've got Is a NITRO BURNING DRAGSTER deer killing machine!
COOP


----------



## Kris87 (Jun 11, 2013)

Even with your light arrow, that would put the IBO at 369fps, which is still a stretch for me to believe as well.  Most bows that I've tuned lose some efficiency when going to a lighter arrow when comparing IBO ratings.......maybe your bow is the exception.


----------



## ddd-shooter (Jun 11, 2013)

What's so great about speed? 
I do not recommend going under 5 gpp for any reason. Especially if you are a hunter. Heavy arrows just have too many benefits for me to believe otherwise.


----------



## Bow Only (Jun 11, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> Even with your light arrow, that would put the IBO at 369fps, which is still a stretch for me to believe as well.  Most bows that I've tuned lose some efficiency when going to a lighter arrow when comparing IBO ratings.......maybe your bow is the exception.



And he's using a ProChrony which is notoriously 5 to 10 fps slow.  I wouldn't trust the numbers you are getting.

Kevin Strother's hunting bow IBO's about the same as what your bow is shooting.  He told me speed is give and take.  To get the speed, you have to give up on the draw cycle by loading weight early and dumping it late into the valley.  To get your bow to shoot that fast, it would have to draw and hold like an Omen.  I'm not knocking the Omen, it is what it is, the fastest production bow in existence.  Your bow is faster than an Omen, and that doesn't happen very often on any bow.


----------



## 1crazybowhunter (Jun 12, 2013)

I tuned an Omen for a client who is a body builder and very strong. He literally brought me all the parts he wanted to install on the bow, the rest, arrows to be cut to length, stabilizer, sight, you get the picture. His Omen maxed out at 73 lbs. and that's where he wanted it tuned. He was a 30 inch draw but somehow I managed to get it done. To date, his bow has been the fastest bow I've ever shot through my old worn out, can't be trusted Pro Chrono speed meter. It shot 358, and yes, I've got a picture of that one too. Now this dude is the exception, he WANTED to shoot it as fast as it would go because he hunts out of state on property he owns and kills deer both there and here. He absolutely loves the way it shoots. To me, it's just too Radical as well as the Mathews Monster. Personally, I just don't think a regular person buys a bow like that but for one purpose only.........to brag to his buds that he has the fastest bow on the planet, I can't hunt with it, I can't shoot any tournaments with it, -shooby dooby dooby doooo waaa -, I can't even practice with it more than 4 shots before I'm so tired from trying to keep it from tearing my shoulder off my body that I have to go inside and put it down for another couple of weeks! Bows like that litter the used bow department of Gable Sporting goods in Fairburn. I see them every time I go there and you ought to see the rediculously low prices on them. They can't hardly even give them away. The reason they wound up on that rack in the first place is as I've already stated. Folks bit off more than they could chew with these radical bows and they had to get rid of them and buy something else that THEY COULD SHOOT. They are just too radical to do anything with except try to sell to someone else who thinks they've got something to prove. Maybe I DO have the exception................or not. I've got an evil PSE Evo that is also set at 65 lbs. Using the same arrow that once again is spined perfectly for the draw weight and draw length, I'm getting 350 flat with it. This speed is not a far stretch at all since I was using a heavier Goldtip Velocity Pro 400 at 7.4 gpi, same length arrow weighing a super heavy 302 grains and was getting 345 yep, at 65 lbs. I don't want to pull a 70 lb. bow. I want to shoot and practice with a bow that's comfortable to pull and is fun to shoot. Archery is supposed to be FUN..remember? Shooting a high poundage bow 10 times and you're wore out ain't cool ! Shooting long enough to critique your own form, sight your bow in at different ranges and really enjoy the way it shoots and the way it's knocking the center out of the bullseye is where it's at. I absolutely love archery and shooting my bows. They are comfortable and fast enough to get the job done in a hurry. That's all I've been searching for and I've made it happen. As far as any chance goes that it might blow up..Please....Doesn't anyone remember Hoyt's DRY FIRE TEAM? They had a display at the Buckarama about 15 years ago, yeah, that far back they had a bow set in a Plexi-Glass box as soon as you walked into the show room and it had a rig that would take a T-handle release and it would engage the string, pull it back to full draw and release it without an arrow. They dry fired that thing all weekend 24/7 until the show was over and they didn't blow it up yet!! If memory serves me, it was something like 5000 times by the end of the show. Now, one of Elite's advertisements shows their bow risers being used to pick up a heavy vehicle ! My point, now a days with the riser material being what it's made of, the limb material being made of nearly indestructable materials and the bowstrings being prestressed to over 750 lbs before even being installed on a bow proves to me that yes, you CAN, if you want to, make your bow shoot just a fast as you want it to and still be as accurate, forgiving, quiet and able to be tuned to perfection as anything out there that shoots half that speed. Just sayin...........OK, I'll get off my stump now.  COOP


----------

