# Grouse Dog???



## rem 300 (Sep 17, 2012)

I have been giving some thought of wanting to get into bird hunting.. I would be hunting grouse in western NC and north GA, So my question is what breed of dog is a good one for grouse in the mountain thickets? Is there a breed better than others? I would appreciate any advice..


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## Peter D (Sep 18, 2012)

Setters have long been the classic grouse hunting dog, especially up in New England.  

I'm certainly not the authority on bird dogs, but I do think a Llewellin or English setter would make a fine dog for Appalachian ruffed grouse hunting.  My uncle in Connecticut hunted with an Irish setter when he was a young man.


Here's a neat little video (grouse and woodcock shooting, fly fishing for Atlantic salmon and Maine lobster for dinner.  It doesn't get much better.)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...z4D4DQ&usg=AFQjCNF9pLIU-A2cb8D1KO3G3uyZQ6DaEA


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## Sam H (Sep 18, 2012)

Unbelieveable good video....Makes you want to pack up and head to Maine...Thanks for sharing!!


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## rem 300 (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks for the info Peter I am partial to the looks of the setters..


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## Jbuchanan (Sep 18, 2012)

I would get a setter, or a pointer, or a brittany, or a gsp, or one of a number of other dog breeds. Any of them can make a great grouse dog. I would just go with the breed that you like and get a dog from proven grouse/hunting lines. In this day and time if you are patient you can come across a nice started dog for next to nothing.


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## rapid fire (Sep 18, 2012)

All I can say is if you get a Setter, you better be have a patient personallity.  Mine is 2 1/2 years old and still crazy as all get out.  She is both hard headed and very soft, which makes training very tough.  Good luck and happy hunting.


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## JuliaH (Sep 18, 2012)

German Shorthair by all means   Actually any good bird hunting breed, but my favorites are the GSP! 






rem 300 said:


> I have been giving some thought of wanting to get into bird hunting.. I would be hunting grouse in western NC and north GA, So my question is what breed of dog is a good one for grouse in the mountain thickets? Is there a breed better than others? I would appreciate any advice..


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## zzweims (Sep 18, 2012)

Michigan roughy and weims

Aline


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## Luke0927 (Sep 18, 2012)

I should be heading into NC this year with my shorthairs (can't make Kansas)...they will point woodcock, pheasant, and quail maybe add a grouse to the list.  Have a house in Blairsville so hopefully not to far to some better than GA grouse hunting.


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## TailCrackin (Sep 18, 2012)

tight working shorthair (shouldnt be hard to find) or a setter.

 Might want to do a little research on some of the cover type (closer working) strains of both breeds.


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## namrettes (Sep 18, 2012)

rapid fire said:


> All I can say is if you get a Setter, you better be have a patient personallity.  Mine is 2 1/2 years old and still crazy as all get out.  She is both hard headed and very soft, which makes training very tough.  Good luck and happy hunting.



I've had a GSP and many Pointers that would fit that same description.


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## birddog52 (Sep 18, 2012)

well boys if you want good grouse dogs breed to good grouse and woodcock stock dogs. I have 5 setters all kin and they are hard to beat for today standards.(but i put the time and effort in to them) I have trained alot of bird dogs start messing with them when pups and stay at it.


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## birddog52 (Sep 18, 2012)

Well first i would advise you need to hunt were there are more grouse and woodcock than we have in Ga and NC these days. IT will never get any better unless we have some drastict changs in habiat on USFS Lands Grouse and Woodcock don,t do well in Mature ForestsAlot places that used to be great grouse habiat has been turned into Wilderness areas know


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## namrettes (Sep 18, 2012)

rem 300 said:


> I have been giving some thought of wanting to get into bird hunting.. I would be hunting grouse in western NC and north GA, So my question is what breed of dog is a good one for grouse in the mountain thickets? Is there a breed better than others? I would appreciate any advice..



Everyone knows that the best Grouse Dogs have long tails


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## birddog52 (Sep 19, 2012)

I agree like my Daddy use to say if its not a pointer or Setter will you just ain,t got much of a dog.


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## waddler (Sep 19, 2012)

Borrow an old trained Britt that knows how to mind and will stay close.


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## JuliaH (Sep 19, 2012)

I have one of those old Britts who will mind (with e-collar) and hunts close.


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## Jim P (Sep 19, 2012)

Do like the people in the north get a Britt.


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## cabinetjedi (Sep 19, 2012)

rem 300 said:


> Thanks for the info Peter I am partial to the looks of the setters..



 If you like setters then go with them , they are more than suitable for grouse. As has already been said find grouse lines and get a pup. Ga. grouse are tough to find be prepared to go for several all day hunts and not find one. Most serious Ga. hunters go north which I highly recommend. Good luck !


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## kingofcool (Sep 20, 2012)

birddog52 said:


> Well first i would advise you need to hunt were there are more grouse and woodcock than we have in Ga and NC these days. IT will never get any better unless we have some drastict changs in habiat on USFS Lands Grouse and Woodcock don,t do well in Mature ForestsAlot places that used to be great grouse habiat has been turned into Wilderness areas know



Are wilderness areas not good for grouse?  Is the lack of management bad?


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## OrlandoBrent (Sep 20, 2012)

Grouse prefer early successional habitat. Many have become convinced that clear cutting and burning are bad for forests (and they're right within a certain context) and worship the idea of old growth forests. They don't realize that many flora & fauna need early successional habitat.


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## abk (Sep 20, 2012)

I have a GSP. My first dog and first time posting here. She is very good so far on Pin raised quail (all I know of in south Georgia) little training was required for her or at least I'm satisfied. Glad to be a part of this!


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## namrettes (Sep 20, 2012)

Jim P said:


> Do like the people in the north get a Britt.



I try not to do much of anything that people in the north do


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## Peter D (Sep 20, 2012)

OrlandoBrent said:


> Grouse prefer early successional habitat. Many have become convinced that clear cutting and burning are bad for forests (and they're right within a certain context) and worship the idea of old growth forests. They don't realize that many flora & fauna need early successional habitat.




Yep, good ol' early successional habitat.  Won't see any of that around here (for grouse) as long as the Clintons and tree huggers keep having their way.  You can tell they really care about wildlife.  ''Don't cut the trees down, then the animals won't have any place to live!''

I think that young aspen and mixed hardwood forests are some of the prettiest, most birdy looking habitat on earth.  It just looks good.  Ya know?

I went sifting and as you would expect, the Minnesota DNR website has tons of great info and some great photos as well.  

''_Protective cover is important as a means of avoiding
predators, especially when nesting, raising broods, and
surviving Minnesota winters. For protection from
predators, grouse favor medium to high densities of
slender woody stems of aspen. Overstory conifers aid
in predator avoidance. Ruffed grouse snow-roost when
snow cover is deeper than 10 inches and of a light,
powdery consistency. Dense hardwood saplings, young
oaks that retain leaves, and spruce and balsam fir are
used as cover during the winter. Conifers are considered
essential winter habitat where snow depths typically
preclude snow roosts._''

Glad to have you here, ABK.


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## rem 300 (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the input and info, I will hopefully have me a prospect next season. I think I am going to look for me a good grouse stock Setter of some sort.. I would appreciate any info on some good stock of setters pups in the near future.


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## birddog52 (Sep 21, 2012)

In ga it started with what they called then RARE 2 AND TURNED INTO WILDERNESS AREAS JUST GO TAKE A HIKE IN ONE OF THIS WILDERNESS AREAS IN GA AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. YOU HAVE TO HAVE WHAT IS KNOW AS EDGE ( MIX OF YOUNG GROWTH AND MATURE TIMBER TO HAVE A HEALTHLY MIX USFS LOVES WILDERNESS BECAUSE THEN THEY DON,T HAVE TO DO ANY MANGEMENT. TIMBER IS A RENEWABLE RESOURCE


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## kingofcool (Sep 21, 2012)

Thanks for the explanations and sorry for the distraction.


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## OrlandoBrent (Sep 21, 2012)

kingofcool said:


> Thanks for the explanations and sorry for the distraction.



No problem. Habitat is a passion of mine. When I have some time in a few weeks, maybe I'll start a thread debating the merits of early successional versus old growth, but I think I'll just be preaching to the choir here.  

Meanwhile as to the original poster, I have my desires set on having a Brittany someday. Seems like an all around great and versatile breed. Too many pets in the household for now, although the wife and youngest are out posting signs about the cat that hasn't been home in a couple of days. 

// not a cat person


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## namrettes (Sep 21, 2012)

rem 300 said:


> Thanks guys for all the input and info, I will hopefully have me a prospect next season. I think I am going to look for me a good grouse stock Setter of some sort.. I would appreciate any info on some good stock of setters pups in the near future.



Check with Flanagan Springs kennel in Winchester Ky. They have Setters from the Ryman lines. Rymans are well known Grouse dogs.They have a web site and are on Face book.


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## namrettes (Sep 21, 2012)

waddler said:


> Borrow an old trained Britt that knows how to mind and will stay close.



Never seen one.......lol


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## namrettes (Sep 21, 2012)

http://flanaganspringskennel.com/
  I think they have some male pups ready now that were born around July.


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## Killinstuff (Sep 24, 2012)

If you never trained a bird dog to hunt before, a setter isn't the way to go. I hunt grouse and woodcock over 40 days every year and have hunted with a bunch of dogs. Setters are the hardest to get good at grouse that I have owned. Grouse have no intention of just sitting around to be pointed and shot, they run. GSP's are the best on moving birds and even then it takes a lot of days/years in the field before a dog figures out how to handle a runner. Shot one grouse tonight and my old GSP worked that bird 45 yards cat and mouse before the bird ran out of room by my Brit that circled around for a look see.

I've had 5 GSP's, one Brit, one Gordon and two English and the dogs with long hair had less brain power then the short hair dogs. Once they got older (around 7 or 8) they figured it out pretty good but the GSP is figuring it out good at 2 or 3. Plus I don't have any burs in the house tonight from the GSP. Brit had a few.


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## birddog52 (Sep 25, 2012)

you just didn,t have the right setters just like alot of breeds.you have to have well bred dogs from proven gun dogs. I have seen some gsp with not alot of brain power and bad temperemats aggressive with people and other dogs> To each his own


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## namrettes (Sep 25, 2012)

Killinstuff said:


> If you never trained a bird dog to hunt before, a setter isn't the way to go. I hunt grouse and woodcock over 40 days every year and have hunted with a bunch of dogs. Setters are the hardest to get good at grouse that I have owned. Grouse have no intention of just sitting around to be pointed and shot, they run. GSP's are the best on moving birds and even then it takes a lot of days/years in the field before a dog figures out how to handle a runner. Shot one grouse tonight and my old GSP worked that bird 45 yards cat and mouse before the bird ran out of room by my Brit that circled around for a look see.
> 
> I've had 5 GSP's, one Brit, one Gordon and two English and the dogs with long hair had less brain power then the short hair dogs. Once they got older (around 7 or 8) they figured it out pretty good but the GSP is figuring it out good at 2 or 3. Plus I don't have any burs in the house tonight from the GSP. Brit had a few.



Tell that to George Ryman or George Bird Evans.  The Ryman/Old Hemlock Setters have always been the Gentlemans grouse dog. I,ve owned several different breeds. Pointers britts gsp springers and setters. I enjoy hunting behind the Setters the best. Setters ( at least the ones I have hunted behind) seem to have more bird since and seem to want to hunt for the hunter more than any short tailed dog that I've owned. Burs are just part of the hunt, and I enjoy the time picking burs with my fine Setter. Of course if you would rather just throw your hound back in the kennel after the hunt and not pay any attention to it until the next hunt, then maybe one of the lesser breeds would be a better choice.


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## pine nut (Sep 25, 2012)

I like the setters too.  The two best dogs I've ever had!  First one was hunting grouse and doing it all at six months.  She was started on grouse then quail and pheasant did it all and would do anything I asked of her.  She would also retreive a goose!  If you could throw it in the water she'd go get it!  She even learned to swim under water.  I thought the first time I saw her do it that a big fish had eaten her.  She poped back to the top and then dived again. Great dogs.


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## Killinstuff (Sep 25, 2012)

Hey men, I was all into the old time romantic bird hunting writers like Evans, Spitter, Huggler and Smith (Tom and Steve are from Michigan), double guns and setters  30 years ago. Still only shoot a little 28ga AYA #2 and  I've had Setters and Gordons, hunted with a bunch of guys in Michigan and Canada with Brits and Setters and it's just 30 years behind the dog chasing mainly Grouse and woodcock with quail and pheasants mixed in when I lived in southern MI (wild Quail by the way) that when it came to Grouse, GSP's picked up on smart birds faster and are easier to train. They have less wild flushes on Grouse, bottom line. Meat dogs? Maybe but I do like "killinstuff" and a Grouse pot pie or Woodcock seared in a hot fry pan with butter and hot sauce? That's living. Someone said something about breeding? Yeah to a point, but a pedigree won't mean a thing if the dog only smells 3 birds a year. I'll take a dog that gets in the woods 4 days a week over pedigree. The setters I've hunted with, mine and friends lock up and look around like "OK, now what?" if that bird isn't pinned.  The GSP's are flagging on a running bird so you know what's going on. Point and that tail is wagging, the bird is running.  Bird pinned, rock solid. I know flagging, just isn't excepted.  I look at it as the dog is smart and working with me to get the bird.  I'm not bashing longhaired dogs but the post starts out sounding like REM 300 is just getting into birds and a Setter is pretty hard for the first timer who doesn't have a lot of Grouse to work with.


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## namrettes (Sep 25, 2012)

I have not found Setters to be any harder to train than any other breeds. Just the opposite actually. I think pedigree is pretty important. If you buy pups from good lines that have been bred over generations by experienced breeders, you can pretty much tell what their temperment will be and how easy they will train. I would stay away from most backyard breeders.  I agree that you need to get them into birds, but if you have problems training a Setter then maybe you were buying from show lines instead of hunting lines. The Setters I've  had were all pretty bird smart and pretty much trained themselves.

 PS   How can you tell if your GSP is flagging ? lol......


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## birddog52 (Sep 26, 2012)

SETTERS ARE NOT HARD TO TRAIN START MY PUPS FROM EIGHT WEEKS. PLAYING GAMES COME RETRIEVING A SOFT BALL POINTING A WING ETC BY 3 OR 4 MONTHS BASIC YARD COMMANDS  THEN AT ABOUT 6 MONTHS PIEGIONS AND QUAIL BY YR AND HALF MOST OF PUPS I FOOL WITH ARE FAIRLY STEADY. YES WILD BIRDS ARE A PLUS. iAM SURE THEY ARE SOME GOOD GSP POINTERS BUT THE ONES I HAVE HUNTED WITH IN THE GROUSE WOODS IN YOPPER LAND I COULD FIND AS MANY BIRDS AS THEY DO. pLUS BAD TEMPERMENTS. AKS PINENUT WHAT KIND OF DOGS I RAISE HE HAS ONE OF MY PUPS


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## Killinstuff (Sep 26, 2012)

To each their own. GSP's are 3 to 1 these days in the field compared to all other dogs for a reason.  At least up here.  Today was my forth day in a row bird hunting and my old GSP (12) is just to beat up from the brush and got the day off. Dogs can see maybe three feet in front of them in the ferns and take a good beating bouncing off downed tree and such. She's game and would hunt hard but a day of rest will keep her prime. The Brit pointed 4 woodcock but the one Grouse she pointed was 40 yards out by the time it flushed. GSP would have handled it better but she's smart and the Brit, she's got a great personality.

 The flagging, yeah I like little longer tail and white dogs. Easier to find on point.  Ya'll should come on up here and we'll work those long haired dogs bald. Lot's woodcock and grouse this year.


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## whitedog (Sep 29, 2012)

I like pointers but you can kill birds over any of the breeds. Just figure out what suits you as far as looks and range and start doing a little research. I like dogs that cover some ground but that's just me.


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## powerg (Sep 29, 2012)

I really enjoy the setters. I just had a litter of puppies this spring. My female comes from a great line of grouse dogs. Her mom was #1 grouse setter in PA in 2002 and #1 grouse setter in country in 2003. Breeding is everything. She was line bred at the kennel she came from. Pups are 4 months old this week. I have 3 left. They are coming along good. I live in central North Carolina if anyone is interested in a pup. 2 males and 1 female.


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## John Porter (Oct 7, 2012)

I am running a German Wirehaired Pointer here in the mountains of NC and am having good luck finding wild birds..


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