# making a duck hole



## sneaking squanto (Oct 8, 2013)

Has anyone ever had any experience with digging a duck hole in the woods?I have a big creek bottom that floods a few times a year and want to create a better duck habitat to keep them around when the water gets back into the banks.Just wondering if this would be feasible and if so, what size would be the best.
Thanks in advance.


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## GSURugger (Oct 8, 2013)

Going to assume said creek crosses property lines, making it a Water of the State.  
Check this thread out.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=733596&highlight=


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## GSURugger (Oct 8, 2013)

Posted this elsewhere a while ago


What makes this so difficult is:
A) Government oversight- you have a few different agencies: EPA, EPD, GSWCC, NPDES, and sometimes the ACE (SEC. 404 permit, etc)  -
B) Laws- the Federal Clean Water Act and at the state level (based off the CWA) OCGA 12-7
C) Oversight by the various "riverkeeper/environmental groups, whom influence heavily the Government Agencies
D) last but not least, the definition of "state water" - any water that crosses property lines is considered a water of the state (I'm paraphrasing here). This includes wetlands, streams, lakes, ponds, etc. if you have a pond with an outfall and said outfall crosses property lines, it's a water of the state.- -
Streams:
Ephemeral- no wrested banks, but is a wet weather watershed. There is no buffer here
Perennial- wrested vegetation at banks. Well defined bank, water flows here majority of the year. 25' buffer from edge of wrested vegetation, 50' if classified as a trout stream (cold water)
Intermittent stream-dry for 3+months of the year. Has wrested banks and is influenced by rainwater etc. 25' buffer

Anything you do to "impair" a state water is governed by the above laws and agencies.- -
One may be able to make it relatively painless if you could prove construction activity was a betterment/wetland restoration and/or mitigation project.-
Anytime you encroach upon the 25' state water barrier you must have a variance to do so.- -
Information on pond building can be found here
http://www.gaswcc.org/docs/ag_bmp_Manual.pdf

The GSWCC and NPDES web pages can answer a lot of questions.- 
I hope the above is helpful on understanding what/who all can have a hand in it.- 

 on the "ask for forgiveness in lieu of permission" gaffe 
Forgiveness in this case will consist of a consent order, followed by DAILY fines until the area in question is repaired, up to $32,500 a day


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## GSURugger (Oct 8, 2013)

Agricultural irrigation/farm ponds/pivot pumps/etc. is a bit less of a headache.  A lot more exemptions.  May want to check out WRP programs.


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## sneaking squanto (Oct 8, 2013)

I knew there were plenty of regulations out there but didn't realize it was that extensive..interesting.since we own both sides I'm guessing it's not considered "water of the state"


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## GSURugger (Oct 8, 2013)

If the creek is completely contained in your property, then i do not believe it qualifies as a water of the state, but if it crosses property lines anywhere or at any time, then it does.


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## across the river (Oct 8, 2013)

sneaking squanto said:


> I knew there were plenty of regulations out there but didn't realize it was that extensive..interesting.since we own both sides I'm guessing it's not considered "water of the state"



If it is a stream, it is state water.   Permitting has to do with the "impact" of the pond, so it is easier to get a permit for something at the head of a stream or a small stream that runs into another stream or creek that is on your property on the line.  This way you aren't holding water from anyone else downstream.    Beaver dams are not regulated, so if it is possible for a "beaver and his friends" to build a "beaver " dam to hold water, then this is going to be your easiest coarse of action.  Then you can install a Clemson leveler and control the water level.


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## T Tolbert (Oct 8, 2013)

Do it and hush about it. It's your land and the goobermet don't pay your taxes


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## rnelson5 (Oct 8, 2013)

T Tolbert said:


> Do it and hush about it. It's your land and the goobermet don't pay your taxes



I like your thinking.......... but if they found out........ it wouldnt be good.


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## OILMAN (Oct 8, 2013)

What they don't know won't hurt them...so long as it looks natural and isn't changed too much, I don't see how it could even become an issume. Its not like they know the lay of your land.


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## GSURugger (Oct 8, 2013)

OILMAN said:


> What they don't know won't hurt them...so long as it looks natural and isn't changed too much, I don't see how it could even become an issume. Its not like they know the lay of your land.



on the "ask for forgiveness in lieu of permission" gaffe 
Forgiveness in this case will consist of a consent order, followed by DAILY fines until the area in question is repaired, up to $32,500 a day


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## creeksidelc (Oct 8, 2013)

The government it shut down.  Build it now and if the find out and have a problem tell them its grandfathered in... haha  On a serious note, it is your land do what you want.    Back to your question, I think bigger would be better.  Ducks are gonna use a swamp for 2 reasons.  Food and shelter.  Shelter is easy since you own the land.  Don't shoot it too much and they will have a safe place to come.  Food is trickier, if you have oak trees that's good also try putting in some buckbrush and smart weed and other vegetation they like.  Also they like shallow more than deep so try to keep all of it within usable depths.  Good luck!


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## FowlPlay1 (Oct 10, 2013)

I work with the engineering department with my local county and work with EPD a good bit and if they found out it could result in heavy fines.


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## JMHendley (Oct 10, 2013)

i was wanting to do the same thing on my property a couple years ago. I went to the conservation office and inquired about it, permits etc, and was told the initial cost would be $200,000 that's the fine the EPA would levee on you, then you would be responsible for restoring the wetlands to the EPA's standards, and lord knows what that would cost. but if a beaver came in and knocked down some trees and it happened to flood, well that's out of your control. and you wanted to put a pipe in the beaver - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - to drain the water to keep from killing the trees, then that's protecting you investment, get my drift


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## JMHendley (Oct 10, 2013)

btw i guess i should say beaver house, so the forum doesn't think im cussing haha


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## OILMAN (Oct 10, 2013)

To those who know, would it be illegal to use a shovel and dig it out some? Or allow beavers to form dams? It seems ridiculous to me that you couldn't dig out a small area beside a creek to allow it to flood deeper on your own land. Way too much government intervention.


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## Millcreekfarms (Oct 10, 2013)

Im sure you can dig a pond beside the creek you just cant dam up the creek or impede the creeks flow


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## GSURugger (Oct 12, 2013)

OILMAN said:


> To those who know, would it be illegal to use a shovel and dig it out some? Or allow beavers to form dams? It seems ridiculous to me that you couldn't dig out a small area beside a creek to allow it to flood deeper on your own land. Way too much government intervention.



agreed on the way to much intervention.  That's the Clean Water Act for you though.  It does some good, but oversteps in situations like this.  You could dig, granted you were outside of the 25 ft buffer (50ft for coldwater streams).  Beavers are your best bet.  You can look into WRP (wetland restoration) or look more into creating a wetland habitat.  It can be done, but you must know the law and such.


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## GSURugger (Oct 12, 2013)

JMHendley said:


> i was wanting to do the same thing on my property a couple years ago. I went to the conservation office and inquired about it, permits etc, and was told the initial cost would be $200,000 that's the fine the EPA would levee on you, then you would be responsible for restoring the wetlands to the EPA's standards, and lord knows what that would cost. but if a beaver came in and knocked down some trees and it happened to flood, well that's out of your control. and you wanted to put a pipe in the beaver - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - to drain the water to keep from killing the trees, then that's protecting you investment, get my drift


beavers will block up a pipe in their dam.


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## bucktail (Oct 14, 2013)

Wasn't it there when you bought the place...


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## swampstalker24 (Oct 14, 2013)

I was first to reply to this thread and said that beavers could be brought in and would make some duck holes in no time, but for some reason my post got deleted?  Moderators?


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