# have you ever stopped to think...



## stick-n-string

about how many Indains there must have been? yesterday I hunted some new land, and the guy showing me the land found a arrowhead. While I was in the stand I started to think about all the different places in georgia i have found arrowheads. There musta been allot of them! 

Am i the only one to think about this?


----------



## Nicodemus

I`ve thought about it a right smart. I kinda figure it like this, this place has been occupied for thousands of years. Points, tools and other implements were made, used, broken, and lost on a daily basis. Over that span of time, that would be a tremendous amount of artifacts to accumulate. Naturally, there will be more in prefered areas, but points of some kind, can be found almost anywhere.


----------



## swampstalker

Think about it all the time. I find myself wondering all the time how many priceless artifacts are just below my feet.


----------



## backwoodsjoe

*Question for Nicodemus.*



Nicodemus said:


> I`ve thought about it a right smart. I kinda figure it like this, this place has been occupied for thousands of years. Points, tools and other implements were made, used, broken, and lost on a daily basis. Over that span of time, that would be a tremendous amount of artifacts to accumulate. Naturally, there will be more in prefered areas, but points of some kind, can be found almost anywhere.



Nicodemus,
In your opinion, what percentage of the stone artifacts that are in the ground here in Georgia have been found ? less than 1%..........5%.........10% ????  What is your estimate ?


----------



## Nicodemus

backwoodsjoe said:


> Nicodemus,
> In your opinion, what percentage of the stone artifacts that are in the ground here in Georgia have been found ? less than 1%..........5%.........10% ????  What is your estimate ?




WOW, I can`t even begin to hazard a guess on that one.


----------



## Al33

Yes I have and I have spent many hours thinking about the trials they dealt with, especially weather related. I imagine they could forecast it to a degree based on what they saw the natural world doing but how did they avoid tornadoes, floods,  and hurricanes? How did they live without thermacells?

I have also wondered and expect that even the most primitive tribes had their professions much like we do. I like to think there were point makers that traded and bartered with the fruits of their talents and efforts for other necessities. Some were better predators (hunters) than others while some may have excelled in other life supporting roles such as farming. Likely there were those who were relied upon as weather forecasters just as they did with medicine men for medicinal purposes. 

Have you ever wondered how they dealt with issues like homosexuality, mental illnesses, or down syndrome?  All of these things have given me food for thought about our predecessors here. I have never studied them in depth but admit I need to. Every time I find and hold a point in my hand I stare at it and wonder about the person who made it and when he did it. What he might have been thinking when he was making it. If it is a crude point was it a kid just learning how to knap or was it because the material wasn't the best to work with. Were his knapping skills not that great? How was it lost? Did an animal carry it off and die somewhere with it embedded in its body? 

Yes sir, I have stopped to think not only about how many Indians there were here but about many other things about them as well.


----------



## backwoodsjoe

*Aaaaa+++++*



Al33 said:


> Yes I have and I have spent many hours thinking about the trials they dealt with, especially weather related. I imagine they could forecast it to a degree based on what they saw the natural world doing but how did they avoid tornadoes, floods,  and hurricanes? How did they live without thermacells?
> 
> I have also wondered and expect that even the most primitive tribes had their professions much like we do. I like to think there were point makers that traded and bartered with the fruits of their talents and efforts for other necessities. Some were better predators (hunters) than others while some may have excelled in other life supporting roles such as farming. Likely there were those who were relied upon as weather forecasters just as they did with medicine men for medicinal purposes.
> 
> Have you ever wondered how they dealt with issues like homosexuality, mental illnesses, or down syndrome?  All of these things have given me food for thought about our predecessors here. I have never studied them in depth but admit I need to. Every time I find and hold a point in my hand I stare at it and wonder about the person who made it and when he did it. What he might have been thinking when he was making it. If it is a crude point was it a kid just learning how to knap or was it because the material wasn't the best to work with. Were his knapping skills not that great? How was it lost? Did an animal carry it off and die somewhere with it embedded in its body?
> 
> Yes sir, I have stopped to think not only about how many Indians there were here but about many other things about them as well.




Great post ! !


----------



## shawn mills

Tell you a few thoughts and dreams Ive had after hunting artifacts over the past 35 years or so... I regularly dream of finding a large cache of points or of stumbling into a field or river bottom thats loaded with hundreds of museum quality artifacts!! The most common thoughts I have though are about the people themselves and how they lived. Can you imagine being able to go back to the paleo or  mississippian period and observe their daily habits! You would have had to be invisable elsein I'm certian you wouldnt  have lasted too long! I have the utmost respect for the indians of years gone by. They were certianly the truest forms of stewards of the land! How many artifact hunters ever feel this one. You're out hunting points in a field all by yourself and you suddenly get this strange feeling that something or someone is "telling" you to look in a certian part of the field and when you do you find the point of the day? I feel a particular closeness to the indians of the past. People often ask me how I find points when nobody else does and i usually answer, " Because I dont just look for em with my eyes". If you understand that statement you probably have a pretty nice collection too. I think our forefathers are proud when we find an arrowhead and then spend the time to display, honor and share that relic with family and friends for years to come. My 2 cents...


----------



## SWAMPFOX

Excellent posts. 

I lived in South Dakota for nearly two years when I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB in 1971.

I often thought about how the Souix were able to contend with the brutal winters there. I mean we had some rough winter weather. A lot of snow and sub zero temps plus the wind. The wind blew constantly. I can't imagine what it must have been like to try to keep warm in that environment and go about your daily routine of hunting and gathering.

I guess that's why they were already old at 45.

I have a lot of respect for them.


----------



## squirreldoghunter

shawn mills said:


> How many artifact hunters ever feel this one. You're out hunting points in a field all by yourself and you suddenly get this strange feeling that something or someone is "telling" you to look in a certian part of the field and when you do you find the point of the day? - I think our forefathers are proud when we find an arrowhead and then spend the time to display, honor and share that relic with family and friends for years to come.



I know what you mean. We've got a few small mounds on our property and I've spent a lot of time there turkey and hog hunting, or just sitting and wondering about some of the same things that have been said. One year I called up a big gobbler, he came in right over the top of a mound and I shot him there. Went over and sat with him a while and just on impulse pulled a feather out and laid it on the mound. Said a thank you to whoever might have been there, just in case. Bent over to pick the turkey up and saw a perfect 4 pt. shed lying right next to the palmetto bush he was by. Since then whenever I pass by I try to leave a little something, kind of an acknowledgement that I know they were there. 
This season I hunted hard and wound up killing two good gobblers near by. The last day I went back and got a bird to gobble at a wing bone call I had made out of one of the wings. I never could get him to come in and about 10 I figured well, I've had a good season, I'm going to head on out and leave it for next year. Back on the trail I turned right to go to the truck but something stopped me and I had this urge to go the other way to the mounds. I thought about a minute and turned back. Then I said, no, it's a good walk down there and I'm a little tired, I'm just going to go on home. Turned again and headed back to the truck but I got that feeling again. Finally I just said to heck with it and made my way down to the mounds and sat up on one for a while just soaking up the peace and quiet. After a while I got up, hit a few yelps on the wing bone...didn't hear anything but the wind in the oaks. I said thanks for letting me share the woods with you again this year, and laid an empty shell I had killed one of the gobblers with on the mound. Back on the trail, right in the middle of the mounds, I looked down and there was a small triangular piece of pottery. Well that was pretty neat. I walked about 5 more steps and there, lying right in the middle of the trail was the point in the picture below. It was in the wide open just like somebody had just put it there and wanted me to see it. (Nic was kind enough to identify it as a Dalton.) I had walked over that spot all season and never seen it. We'd had no rain and nothing had disturbed the ground, and I'm always looking so I don't know how I could have missed it. I can't even describe what I was feeling, but it was a pretty powerful experience.
I reckon some folks would say I've gone off the deep end, but I also imagine some of ya'll know what I'm talking about.


----------



## dutchman

Good posts.

I think about a lot of the things you folks have already mentioned and I also think about why that point is found lying where it is. I try to study the lay of the land and get a feel for what attraction it may have had for the people living on it or passing over it so many years ago. Of course, I realize that the land would have looked different then as compared to what it looks like now, even down to the presence of creeks and springs and what not. But there was likely as not something that brought them over the very spot I'm standing on. The best day I guess I had finding anything was a few weeks back when I found three quartz points in about 10 feet. I guess that's as close as I'll ever come to finding a cache.


----------



## Nugefan

I just wish they could talk ..... 

everyone I find or someone lets me hold I always hold it up to my ear .... and say to my self " I wonder where you have been and what you have saw in you lifetime " ....


----------



## JustUs4All

Good posts guys.  Many times I have had the dream of finding a cache of points, specifically a buried pot full of them, none broken.  I have also had the feeling of being directed to look in a particular area for artifacts.  I can't help but feel that someone or something is trying to help me find them.

Many times I have also had the feeling that a deer was nearby within moments of having one come in, but I think that is probably Dad still helping out.


----------



## Paymaster

These are some really good posts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


----------



## Redbow

When I find an Indian artifact,,which is rare now and especially in our area, I always wonder, what kind of person was the individual that lost or made the artifact like, what was his position in the village, how long did he live, was he married with a family,or did he ever have a mate at all ?

What kind of hardships did he face in his life, was he ever in battle with other tribes? How far did he travel in his life away from where he was born, did he ever kill another human being, was he a good hunter and provider for his family if he had one ? Where was he buried and was he remembered for many years after he passed on? Did that individual ever stop and say to himself, one day when I am long gone from the earth,,will anyone ever find any of my possessions that will lay around in or on the earth for many moons?

I can think of a host of things that I am always curious about when I do happen to come across Indian artifacts ! I wish I could find many more !!

And I do know about a guy many years ago who found a cache of Indian arrowheads buried near the banks of the Great Pee Dee River outside of Rockingham NC  ! Almost 100 arrowheads came out of his find !


----------



## stick-n-string

I am glad to see that ya'll all feel the same way I do! I try to explain the love I have about finding a arrowhead, but I guess if you have never found one and stoped to think about the history behind it,it would be hard to understand. 
It always amazes me to know that I am the first person to touch that arrowhead in hundreds of year.

Thanks for all of ya'll great post!


----------



## Al33

stick-n-string said:


> It always amazes me to know that I am the first person to touch that arrowhead in hundreds of year.



Me too!!! Actually, in many cases that would be thousands of years. Just absolutely awesome to think that Civil War soldiers, to name a few, may have stepped on it or walked right by it. And the history of this great nation that transpired while it laid there in the ground for centuries. Simply amazing that little ol me was lucky enough to be the first to admire it in all that time.


----------



## Nicodemus

I was lucky enough to find a cache of five big preforms, when I was a teenager. At the time, I thought they were ax blades. I don`t go out as much anymore, just for the sole purpose of artifact huntin`, but I guess I find my share of them. I actually find more, while I`m  turkey huntin`, than any other time.  There is a special thrill to findin` a point or tool, that can`t be explained. 

We here in the tri-state area are lucky. Some of the finest artifacts in this country are found in our area. All you have to do is look. They are here....


----------



## widowmaker1

Hey you guys should pick up a book called-this so remote frontier-.it is awesome,i would be willing to say it is the most documented piece of history ever written about the natives here in ga. It goes back to the 1400's ,and has excerpts from the diaries of the first spanish soldiers who encountered the natives,and they werent friendly to start with. It also has excerpts from william bartram who spent alot of time in this area with the natives. It talks of the native buffalo and elk that were once here.and has old maps from way back in the day. It is a great book if you are interested in this.


----------



## dawg2

Nugefan said:


> I just wish they could talk .....
> 
> everyone I find or someone lets me hold I always hold it up to my ear .... and say to my self " I wonder where you have been and what you have saw in you lifetime " ....



I often wonder the exact same thing


----------



## dawg2

stick-n-string said:


> I am glad to see that ya'll all feel the same way I do! I try to explain the love I have about finding a arrowhead, but I guess if you have never found one and stoped to think about the history behind it,it would be hard to understand.
> It always amazes me to know that I am the first person to touch that arrowhead in hundreds of year.
> 
> Thanks for all of ya'll great post!



Some of those archaics are THOUSANDS of years old.


----------



## THREEJAYS

Many times also


----------



## westcobbdog

recently I was in a thick creek bottom in Ben Hill, Co and noticed where the dirt bank wall in a spot suddenly rose up 10 ft or so above the creek. I walked up on it and spotted two awesome points laying there exposed. I told my friend (the landowner)I sorta knew I would find something there(he didn't believe me!)


----------



## Nicodemus

dawg2 said:


> Some of those archaics are THOUSANDS of years old.





Uhh, ALL of those Archaics are thousands of years old!!


----------



## choctawlb

When I find a point I wonder what it would be like to go back to that time, and see these people exist day to day. What were they like, how did they go about their daily lives, how did they view nature and the outdoors. Were their lives that much simpler than ours, or did the threats of the day make them just as hectic. How many old ways were lost, and we just think we know exactly how they did it. But mostly how beautiful was this country , the way the "Creator" made it and intended it to be , before the civilized white man messed it up. That's probrobly the biggest thing.
Ken


----------



## Al33

choctawlb said:


> When I find a point I wonder what it would be like to go back to that time, and see these people exist day to day. What were they like, how did they go about their daily lives, how did they view nature and the outdoors. Were their lives that much simpler than ours, or did the threats of the day make them just as hectic. How many old ways were lost, and we just think we know exactly how they did it. But mostly how beautiful was this country , the way the "Creator" made it and intended it to be , before the civilized white man messed it up. That's probrobly the biggest thing.
> Ken


Me too Ken. Man, I would love to be able to see what things looked like in their pristine states. I can imagine enormous sized trees and beautiful clear creeks and rivers not tainted with silt from construction.


----------



## BuckHunter 34

I think about it a lot


----------



## Keebs

choctawlb said:


> When I find a point I wonder what it would be like to go back to that time, and see these people exist day to day. What were they like, how did they go about their daily lives, how did they view nature and the outdoors. Were their lives that much simpler than ours, or did the threats of the day make them just as hectic. How many old ways were lost, and we just think we know exactly how they did it. But mostly how beautiful was this country , the way the "Creator" made it and intended it to be , before the civilized white man messed it up. That's probrobly the biggest thing.
> Ken




I haven't ever found anything (although I always keep an eye out) but Ken, you've posted it just right for me too! Thanks!


----------



## Sunny

Congratulations on the finds.

You guys certainly have some quality points laying about the countryside.  Where I live - Southern England - the majority of the material is Mesolithic (roughly 8000bc) rough flake tools and points; no bifaces and very little re-touch.

I do however, get biface handaxes occasionally, which are my favourites and go back as long as 300,000 years


----------



## Keebs

Sunny said:


> Congratulations on the finds.
> 
> You guys certainly have some quality points laying about the countryside.  Where I live - Southern England - the majority of the material is Mesolithic (roughly 8000bc) rough flake tools and points; no bifaces and very little re-touch.
> 
> I do however, get biface handaxes occasionally, which are my favourites and go back as long as 300,000 years



Pictures, darlin', pictures! 
I know I'll never have the chance to get across the big pond, so help a girl out & let me see what kind of finds you're talking about.


----------



## huntaholic

*Great Post !!!*

I think about this stuff all the time, Thank God for the woods !!! its the only place I feel right !!!


----------



## dmedd

huntaholic said:


> I think about this stuff all the time, Thank God for the woods !!! its the only place I feel right !!!



You and me both buddy. I think about the same things ya'll have mentioned all the time.


----------



## ncboman

I felt it first ... 

that bump ... 

I smelled and listened ...

nothing ...

Again, that bump ...

I knew from before ...

...

a mastadon is close ...

...

and I have two good darts left ...

...


----------



## backyard buck

some counties in georgia are less populated now than they were thousands of years ago


----------



## Fireaway

Lately I have been looking alot for points. I have never found anything, and I just assume I have not looked in the right place. I only have access to woods, no plowed fields. Do yall ever have luck finding points IN the woods?


----------



## Willjo

Fireaway There has to be something there to find. Look in firebreaks, old road beds and any exposed soil in the woods. In our area the indians used coastal plain chert, it is easy to spot if the points is quartz or slate they may be harder to spot. I think most everone that looks for artifacts probabley has found some in the woods. Areas that has been logged is good also. Planted pines is also good to look in until they cover the area with pinestraw.


----------



## thurston1979

I have been huntin for about 3 months now. To bad most the farmers dont turn the land much anymore. I have found some interesting points, and I ponder on most of the stuff you guys have mentioned. Also when u guys say finding a cache, is this being a place of storage the indians used to keep there tools?


----------



## ScottD

The strangest thing I found in greene county was a not so much what i found but how i found it.  In the middle of a clearcut area, a ring on the ground caught my eye.  Right next to it was a small point.

The ring was metal (rusty) about 1-1/2" diameter - probably off some horse tack/farming rig.

Made me think what are the chances? a ring probably 100 years old - then a point - no telling how old - landing in the same place right next to each other for me to find.  I was at least the third person to touch that spot.


----------



## Nicodemus

thurston1979 said:


> I have been huntin for about 3 months now. To bad most the farmers dont turn the land much anymore. I have found some interesting points, and I ponder on most of the stuff you guys have mentioned. Also when u guys say finding a cache, is this being a place of storage the indians used to keep there tools?




A cache is an assortment of tools, blades, and-or points, either finished, unfinished, or a combination of both, that were buried or hid, for unknown reasons, and were never gone back for. Not a common find. I`ve only found one cache, of five preforms, in my career. A few weeks after the `94 Flood, a fellow employee found a cache of 45 preforms that the high water uncovered. I got to see them, up close, and some of them were really nice.


----------



## stick-n-string

I found 8 points including 1 tool in about a 20 yard strectch of a firebreak, but I don't think that would be considered a cache. or is it?
nicodemus you living in lee county probably know the area i found them.


----------



## Willjo

Eight points could be a cache but they would likley be the same style point and made out of the same material. They could have been scattered by the firebreak plow.


----------



## jcdona

I am one of the fortunate ones to have found a cache. I was walking a firebreak and found a blade in the same spot I had found one two years earlier. I took my turning stick and started probing the soft dirt and I hit rock. I started digging with my hands and found another one. Another one was under that. In all I have 22 pieces that was stacked together like pancakes. Most are very well made preform blades that are up to 9 3/4 inches long. Some are smaller and not as well wade. When I got them up I could not believe what I had. I just sat there and thought about the person who buried them. What he used the for and that I was the first person since he to have held them. That was an awesome feeling. They all appear to be made from the same rock also.


----------



## stick-n-string

I went back and re-read all these post and truely enjoyed them again! So I figured I would bring it back for ya'll to enjoy again as well!

Oh and Nicodemus it was a pleasure meeting you yesterday!


----------



## schleylures

I read a sign at chickaswahatchee this weekend and thought about it while hunting


----------



## ron moore

I read a book last year about that.   The name of it is _1491_ by Charles C. Mann.   Another good book is _Indian Givers_.  It tells about a lot of the things we learned from the indians in North and South America.


----------



## Mackey

I often wonder what this country would like like if the playing field (battle field) had been a little more level. If the natives had a little more sofisticaed weaponry. Or if we had been a little less forcefully crooked.


----------



## slip

i've wonderd what this land would look like today if white man had never stepped foot here.

yep, ive wonderd a lot about the people here before us.


----------



## Al33

jcdona said:


> I am one of the fortunate ones to have found a cache. I was walking a firebreak and found a blade in the same spot I had found one two years earlier. I took my turning stick and started probing the soft dirt and I hit rock. I started digging with my hands and found another one. Another one was under that. In all I have 22 pieces that was stacked together like pancakes. Most are very well made preform blades that are up to 9 3/4 inches long. Some are smaller and not as well wade. When I got them up I could not believe what I had. I just sat there and thought about the person who buried them. What he used the for and that I was the first person since he to have held them. That was an awesome feeling. They all appear to be made from the same rock also.



I sure would like to see some pic's of those. Awesome find!


----------



## Bow Only

On the original question, I only know numbers for where I am from which is the Florida panhandle.  In pre-Columbian times, there were an estimated 250,000 inhabitants from Pensacola to Tallahassee.  By the time that De Soto landed in Tampa Bay in 1539, that number had dropped to 50,000 due to disease.  Their immune systems could not handle our diseases.  

This subject really hits home when you find a piece of fingernail incised and it was incised by a little girl.  You know her mother was sitting beside her showing her how to make a pot.


----------



## Bamafan4life

Has anybody ever been to a peace of land that never has seen machinary? imagine the whole united states like that a squirrel could go from georgia to maine without ever touching the ground! and to think it was basically like that just 200 years ago.


----------



## kmckinnie

I bet everyone loved there job! No taxes! The old was taken care of same as the young!Family and tradition was the norm!No oil spills! No planted pines in rows! The language was strong and bold!Our for fathers came here to find a place to live with out goverment making laws that they didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well we know the rest of the story!Think about 200 years into the future!


----------



## stick-n-string

kmckinnie said:


> I bet everyone loved there job! No taxes! The old was taken care of same as the young!Family and tradition was the norm!No oil spills! No planted pines in rows! The language was strong and bold!Our for fathers came here to find a place to live with out goverment making laws that they didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well we know the rest of the story!Think about 200 years into the future!



Yep!!


----------



## Kawaliga

At the beginning of this thread, a poster wondered what percentage of points and other artifacts have been found. I have looked, dug and collected artifacts for 58 years, and I believe that in sites that are in cultivated fields, there is as much or more to be found below the plow zone, as what has already been uncovered, and the relics in the plow zone are still being exposed after many years of collecting. Hard to put a % on it, but much more is under the ground IMO.


----------



## 7 point

kmckinnie said:


> I bet everyone loved there job! No taxes! The old was taken care of same as the young!Family and tradition was the norm!No oil spills! No planted pines in rows! The language was strong and bold!Our for fathers came here to find a place to live with out goverment making laws that they didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well we know the rest of the story!Think about 200 years into the future!



Sometimes I wonder what this country would be like if things would have  stayed that way .I have always enjoyed learning about the natives way of life.


----------



## Tugboat1

Simply a great post! Much appreciated.


----------



## Flint Arrow

You fellows are great...only smart people ponder questions of the past. Low information people go about life only worried about the "now" I have asked myself some of the same questions....now i just killed the smart theory.....my family pondered questions about our own native folklore until we got involved with the Family Tree American Indian Haplogroup Q-M3 Project and proved that we came from the people we were pondering about. Now finding a point or killing game with a flint tipped arrow has a different feel about it. I would encourage you to take a dna test if you believe that you may have come from native people....Dna does not care and is not biased ....you may find out you have a stronger connection to that point than you thought. Plus you may find a new relative....there is not many out there to match too if you test native. Six males and two family surnames tested native with our family....we need some matches so go ahead and test...


----------



## runswithbeer

Bamafan4life said:


> Has anybody ever been to a peace of land that never has seen machinary? imagine the whole united states like that a squirrel could go from georgia to maine without ever touching the ground! and to think it was basically like that just 200 years ago.



Yes, but those places are few and far between.  I often wonder what it would have been like without hundreds of acres of row crops also


----------



## Rob

I wonder about the past and I really worry what future generations will say when they find our "artifacts".


----------



## Vernon Holt

*Have you ever stopped to think??*

I have enjoyed a lifetime of interest in artifacts of all kinds.  I know very well the feeling that comes from just catching a glimpse of something that might have been worked by man at some earlier time.  It is certain to excite.

I have long been puzzled by the depth in which points may be found.  I was once checking the damage wrought by a serious storm which passed through a section of mature timber.  One particually large oak tree had turned up a massive root ball which was covered by soil which had been brought up from a depth of at least three or four feet.  Something caught my eye that contrasted with the color of the soil.  Sure enough, this object turned out to be a very nice point which was brought up from a depth normally not expected.

Another instance worthy of mention, I was walking up a dry slough in the lower Oconee River floodplain.  One bank of the slew was noticeably higher than the other.  I noted that beavers (during high water) had somewhat recently excavated a den into this tallest bank of the slough.  In so doing, the beaver had dragged out of the den a considerable amount of clean, white sand.  Perched in the middle of the neat pile of sand was a beautiful point.  I thanked the beaver and dropped the point into my pocket.  I should say that it appeared that this point came from a site which could have been as deep as three to five feet below the average level of the surface.

While re-potting my Wife's Christmas Cactus, I was in need of a small amount of course sharp sand and small pea-gravel.  I carried a bucket and shovel down to the creek which traverses my yard and always contains a handy gravel bar.  I picked up a shovel full of wet gravel and cast it upon the shore to allow for the water to drain away.

Immediately, I noted an item which contrasted with anything else that I had cast on the bank.  I hastened to examine the object and was excited to find that it was a  Bannerstone in perfect condition.  Some will know that a banner stone is an inherent part of the ancient atlatl, which serves as a means of giving the spear thrower a greater thrust.  Knowing that the Atlatl pre-dates the bow and arrow, makes this a very rare find.  I have never attempted to have the Bannerstone dated, but would very much like to do so.

Finding the Bannerstone is no surprise since I live on the site of the Cherokee village of Cartecay.  My garden is in a bottomland site which was already cleared and farmed by Cherokees many years prior to their removal.

My post is intended to illustrate that artifacts are where you find them.  Many can be found where you least expect them to be.

Good Artifact hunting all!!


----------



## HossBog

stick, yep, I've thought about that kind of stuff often. I think, man, I was born about 300 years too late! Then, I realize if I'd been born then, my lifespan would've been about 5 years, when I almost died of whooping cough - back then, I would have died! What I think about is weather, ticks, mosquitoes, redbugs, athlete's foot, etc., those thing that can really take you down! I know French mulberry plant can be used as an insect repellant for ticks, etc., but still, life was tough, and lifespan was short! If the whooping cough didn't get me, my appendicitis would have for sure! I surely would've never lived to see my current state of geezer hood! Plus all the tribal and general fighting and killing and wars they had. Yep, it wasn't nary Unto These Hills playing with the wild crits and singing in the woods lifestyle until ye olde white man came and ruined it all!

Anyway, I'm 1/8 Indian, and love all things old and the woods, waters we have. It would have been hard to keep dry in that rain we had at my house in Columbia county Saturday night!!


----------



## reformed

A little off subject but at the same time close to it... Alvar nunez de Vaca wrote a journal, best known as "La Relacion" detailing his encounters with the Native people in North America during the 1500's.....great read.


----------



## Kawaliga

I have collected artifacts for nearly 60 years, from the Florida panhandle, Alabama, and SW Georgia. I have been fortunate to have access to many good sites, from Archaic through Mississippian, and historic village sites. The one thing that puzzles me the most, is the scarcity of pipes, both stone and ceramic on all of these sites. I know that tobacco or the bark of certain trees mixed with selected leaves was commonly smoked by the men, both casually and ceremonially. I have a large collection, but only one bowl fragment, and three stem fragments. Very strange.


----------



## Bow Only

Kawaliga said:


> I have collected artifacts for nearly 60 years, from the Florida panhandle, Alabama, and SW Georgia. I have been fortunate to have access to many good sites, from Archaic through Mississippian, and historic village sites. The one thing that puzzles me the most, is the scarcity of pipes, both stone and ceramic on all of these sites. I know that tobacco or the bark of certain trees mixed with selected leaves was commonly smoked by the men, both casually and ceremonially. I have a large collection, but only one bowl fragment, and three stem fragments. Very strange.



Pipes were valuable, they didn't lose many of those.  I only have one and it is Mississippian.  The farmer plowed into a truncated temple mound and took off the corners.  It pulled it out along with a pelvic bone of a dog .  That was the only known inland dog internment at the time.  
I had a large Woodland site that covered over 5 acres.  It yielded thousands of points, around 10 broken celts and no pipes.


----------



## Throwback

Kawaliga said:


> At the beginning of this thread, a poster wondered what percentage of points and other artifacts have been found. I have looked, dug and collected artifacts for 58 years, and I believe that in sites that are in cultivated fields, there is as much or more to be found below the plow zone, as what has already been uncovered, and the relics in the plow zone are still being exposed after many years of collecting. Hard to put a % on it, but much more is under the ground IMO.


  Yep. Grass and sod doesn't deepen it uppens   

T


----------



## Kawaliga

Bow Only said:


> Pipes were valuable, they didn't lose many of those.  I only have one and it is Mississippian.  The farmer plowed into a truncated temple mound and took off the corners.  It pulled it out along with a pelvic bone of a dog .  That was the only known inland dog internment at the time.
> I had a large Woodland site that covered over 5 acres.  It yielded thousands of points, around 10 broken celts and no pipes.



Bow, I can see that stone pipes of soapstone or some type of quartzite, due to the difficulty, and time consumed in making them would hold great value, and would either be passed down, or interred as grave goods. Ceramic pipes of the plain elbow or tube types would be much easier to make, but much more fragile, and easily broken and discarded. This being so, brings me back to my original thought of why so few broken examples in large village sites? We will never know the answer, but to me, it's all part of the original OP's statement, "Have you ever stopped to think"?


----------



## triton

Bump


----------



## Bow Only

I was at a buddy's house not too long ago and he had found one of the finest examples of a Mississippian clay elbow pipe I've ever seen.  I stuck my little finger in the bowl and soot came out everywhere.  There was so much that I kept it in a plastic bag.  I'd love to send it off and see what it was they were smoking, I just don't know where to send it.


----------



## fish hawk

Bow Only said:


> I was at a buddy's house not too long ago and he had found one of the finest examples of a Mississippian clay elbow pipe I've ever seen.  I stuck my little finger in the bowl and soot came out everywhere.  There was so much that I kept it in a plastic bag. * I'd love to send it off and see what it was they were smoking*, I just don't know where to send it.



You should have just fired it up!!!


----------



## stick-n-string

Makes you wonder if Indians had cannabis


----------



## White Horse

Forest Grump said:


> Uhh, where do you think "we" learned we could smoke it? Both tobacco & weed were discovered by the aboriginal Americans. We weren't the first potheads, dude...



Sorry to kill your buzz, but Cannabis Sativa originated in China and was unknown in America until brought here in Colonial times, likely by the Spanish. Tobacco did originate with the American Indians, but the type of tobacco commonly smoked today is a native of South America. The early Indians smoked Nicotiana Rustica as well as a variety that is now apparently extinct.


----------



## Forest Grump

Thanks, I did not know that, always thought it was among the plants native to the Americas. Did the Chinese smoke it? Or brew it?

(once again, I am reminded not to post on here without checking facts first...or after the wine bottle is empty)


----------



## White Horse

In China cannabis (hemp) was used to make paper. The oil may also have been used in early times. It certainly is now; there's a hemp oil used on food much like soy sauce.

Of course hemp can be used for rope and to make clothing, among other uses. I expect that asking whether it was smoked first or used for fiber first is sort of like asking whether the chicken or the egg came first.


----------

