# Fast or heavy



## coolbreezeroho (Jun 29, 2020)

Which you like better 240/270 or a 300/330 grain for taking a deer.....? Ill say 130 to 150 yard shot...


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## fishfryer (Jun 29, 2020)

maxi ball or round ball of appropiate caliber is my suggestion


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## Bowyer29 (Jun 30, 2020)

I shoot a 250 grain with 100 grains of Pyrodex out to about 150.


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## frankwright (Jun 30, 2020)

It is hard to say. I shot a small doe with a 340gr chunk of bullet and she ran off like nothing had happened.
I texted my hunting partner and told him I had missed. I got down and there was blood everywhere and she went about 30 yards. I would have expected to knock her off her feet!


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 30, 2020)

Heavy all day long and twice on the weekends. No substitute for bullet weight with a muzzleloader.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 30, 2020)

frankwright said:


> It is hard to say. I shot a small doe with a 340gr chunk of bullet and she ran off like nothing had happened.
> I texted my hunting partner and told him I had missed. I got down and there was blood everywhere and she went about 30 yards. I would have expected to knock her off her feet!


I've had a small buck run 150 yards after I shot it through both lungs with a Barnes from a .300 Winmag traveling at around 3000fps, too. Deer are just tough sometimes.


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## Buckman18 (Jun 30, 2020)

I like bigger bullets in a ML.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 30, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> I like bigger bullets in a ML.


Yep. 30 years of shooting deer with 350 grain chunks of solid lead convinced me on bullet weight.


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## across the river (Jun 30, 2020)

coolbreezeroho said:


> Which you like better 240/270 or a 300/330 grain for taking a deer.....? Ill say 130 to 150 yard shot...



In everything, there is a tradeoff.  A higher grain bullet will indeed have more knockdown power than a lower grain bullet, but a lower grain bullet will have a higher muzzle velocity than a larger bullet with the same powder charge.  This means it will "shoot flater" than a larger grain bullet, and due tot he slower velocity a 300 grain bullet can drop significantly more from 100 to 150 yards than a smaller bullet.   I really, you would shoot each with different powder cages to see how it performs, and then practice with one once you settle in on what works best.   I've seen vast differences in bullets and even within the same bullet with different grain powder charges.   If I didn't go that route and you said pick one or the other to, and I really wanted to shoot out to 150 yards, I would go with the lighter bullet.    If you hit the deer where you want, you will kill it regardless of the bullet being 240 or 300 grain, and there is a better chance of you hitting the deer where you want out to that distance with a smaller bullet.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 30, 2020)

across the river said:


> In everything, there is a tradeoff.  A higher grain bullet will indeed have more knockdown power than a lower grain bullet, but a lower grain bullet will have a higher muzzle velocity than a larger bullet with the same powder charge.  This means it will "shoot flater" than a larger grain bullet, and due tot he slower velocity a 300 grain bullet can drop significantly more from 100 to 150 yards than a smaller bullet.   I really, you would shoot each with different powder cages to see how it performs, and then practice with one once you settle in on what works best.   I've seen vast differences in bullets and even within the same bullet with different grain powder charges.   If I didn't go that route and you said pick one or the other to, and I really wanted to shoot out to 150 yards, I would go with the lighter bullet.    If you hit the deer where you want, you will kill it regardless of the bullet being 240 or 300 grain, and there is a better chance of you hitting the deer where you want out to that distance with a smaller bullet.


If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader.


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## Railroader (Jun 30, 2020)

This^^^

For me 100 yd is tops, and the preferred bullet is a Hornady Great Plains 385 gr.

No need to complicate matters any further.

No muzzle loader will ever be a .30'06, I don't care how much you modernize, or wish it to be...

Flame on.


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## across the river (Jun 30, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader.



I agree, but I answered the question asked.  Notice I said "if I really wanted to shoot out to 150 yards."


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## woods&water (Jul 1, 2020)

Started hunting with muzzleloaders as soon as they became legal. I have killed a lot of deer with round balls, maxi balls, hornady GP, and hornady 250SST bullets. Round balls didn't come out half the time, all others exited. For deer, the hornady 250SST does the most internal damage and is way more accurate. MOA accurate. It also has a large velocity increase over the other bullets. For longer shots the increased velocity and better accuracy would get my vote. I personally rarely shoot over 50 yards in GA.
For larger critters such as elk, the hornady GP is what I use.


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## coolbreezeroho (Jul 1, 2020)

If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader. 

Have to shoot a muzzle loader that week before firearms season starts...


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## The Original Rooster (Jul 1, 2020)

In the grand scheme of things 240, 270, 300, 330, 350, and 370 are all heavy. I would say shoot the one that is most accurate at the range you want to shoot. So long as we're talking conical solid lead bullets, they'll all perform well.


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 1, 2020)

coolbreezeroho said:


> If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader.
> 
> Have to shoot a muzzle loader that week before firearms season starts...


A lot of years, I'm still shooting a sidelock muzzleloader after firearms season starts. 

I've killed enough deer to load a fair-sized freight train over the years at <50 yards on the woods with an open-sighted caplock or flintlock. I don't even own one with a scope on it.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Jul 1, 2020)

RoosterTodd said:


> In the grand scheme of things 240, 270, 300, 330, 350, and 370 are all heavy. I would say shoot the one that is most accurate at the range you want to shoot. So long as we're talking conical solid lead bullets, they'll all perform well.



I've killed tons of deer and seen even more fall to the 240 grain Hornady XTP.  It hits at 100 yards as hard as a 44 magnum.  No one says the same bullet from a 44 magnum is "too light for deer."  Expansion, penetration, and not much tracking.

And in a 7-8 lb muzzleloader, it's close to the upper end of recoil tolerance for most of the deer hunters I've trained.  Not sure I'd recommend heavier bullets unless the rifle is a lot heavier or the shooter just likes getting punched in the shoulder.


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## transfixer (Jul 1, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader.



   This ^^^^


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## Nicodemus (Jul 1, 2020)

I`ve killed a pile of deer with either 60 or 70 grains of FFFg and a .490 patched round lead ball. 

That`s all I need to make meat.


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## Jack Flynn (Jul 3, 2020)

460 and 520 grain .45 caliber superslugs. I don't like light and nothing will tote this lead off. It's all about knowing your trajectory. 100 grains FFF powder.


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## godogs57 (Jul 4, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Heavy all day long and twice on the weekends. No substitute for bullet weight with a muzzleloader.



If I could somehow load a brick in my Thompson Center 54 caliber Hawken I’d do it. At muzzleloader speeds, weight is your friend.


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## BarnesAddict (Jul 5, 2020)

Railroader said:


> .........No muzzle loader will ever be a .30'06, I don't care how much you modernize, or wish it to be...
> 
> Flame on.



Might want to do a little research on that statement...........


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## Railroader (Jul 5, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> Might want to do a little research on that statement...........



Pray do enlighten me... I'll listen, but not interested enough to dig for it.


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## BarnesAddict (Jul 5, 2020)

Railroader said:


> Pray do enlighten me... I'll listen, but not interested enough to dig for it.



I push a 45cal 300gr bullet at 2,900fps out of my muzzleloader.  That's faster than my 30-06 handloads with a 180gr bullet at 2750fps.
Shooters are easily breaking 2,300fps and up to 2,600fps using BH209 out of rifles dedicated for heavy charges.
Guys are shooting muzzleloaders, sidelocks, to 1,000yds and have been for decades.

The new "modernized" muzzleloaders are shooting 1 mile hitting steel.

New "modernized" muzzleloaders have far passed the 30-06.


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## Railroader (Jul 5, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> I push a 45cal 300gr bullet at 2,900fps out of my muzzleloader.  That's faster than my 30-06 handloads with a 180gr bullet at 2750fps.
> Shooters are easily breaking 2,300fps and up to 2,600fps using BH209 out of rifles dedicated for heavy charges.
> Guys are shooting muzzleloaders, sidelocks, to 1,000yds and have been for decades.
> 
> ...



300 grainer at 2900???

Sheesh!  That oughta get attention, ON BOTH ends!!

I stand corrected, and tip my hat to ya.  

Enjoy that thing.


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## BarnesAddict (Jul 5, 2020)

Railroader said:


> 300 grainer at 2900???
> 
> Sheesh!  That oughta get attention, ON BOTH ends!!
> 
> ...





Railroader said:


> 300 grainer at 2900???
> 
> Sheesh!  That oughta get attention, ON BOTH ends!!
> 
> ...



Piece of cake.


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jul 5, 2020)




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## Railroader (Jul 5, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> Piece of cake.
> 
> View attachment 1025471



Impressive.


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## coolbreezeroho (Jul 5, 2020)

Guess I'll stay with the 330g and the 209 at 110


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## leesmith (Jul 6, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If I really wanted to shoot 150 yards, I wouldn't be using a muzzleloader.


My muzzleloader is zeroed at 200


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## jiminbogart (Jul 6, 2020)

The .54 cal is an over and under(sights on both barrels, they rotate) so I use 425 grain in each barrel. 

For the 50 cal I load a 385 grain. I have speed reloaders in 385 and round ball. I use round ball for a fast follow up shot if multiple deer are on the menu


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## jiminbogart (Jul 6, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> I push a 45cal 300gr bullet at 2,900fps out of my muzzleloader.  That's faster than my 30-06 handloads with a 180gr bullet at 2750fps.
> Shooters are easily breaking 2,300fps and up to 2,600fps using BH209 out of rifles dedicated for heavy charges.
> Guys are shooting muzzleloaders, sidelocks, to 1,000yds and have been for decades.
> 
> ...



I never knew those velocities were possible.

How fast would a .45 cal 180 grain be in the ML?


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## BarnesAddict (Jul 7, 2020)

jiminbogart said:


> I never knew those velocities were possible.
> 
> How fast would a .45 cal 180 grain be in the ML?



Customs are a whole different breed of muzzleloaders, not like grandpa's rifle.

I have no clue how fast one could send a 180gr bullet, but it would be blistering.


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## mlandrum (Jul 7, 2020)

I've had few hogs and deer  carry my .270 Power Belt much over 20 yards. I use loose powder 80 grains.


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## leesmith (Jul 7, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> I push a 45cal 300gr bullet at 2,900fps out of my muzzleloader.  That's faster than my 30-06 handloads with a 180gr bullet at 2750fps.
> Shooters are easily breaking 2,300fps and up to 2,600fps using BH209 out of rifles dedicated for heavy charges.
> Guys are shooting muzzleloaders, sidelocks, to 1,000yds and have been for decades.
> 
> ...


Yep


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## Buford_Dawg (Jul 8, 2020)

Switched to 245 grain Powerbelts many years ago with 100 grain 777.  Very accurate and deadly in my TC Omega and CVA Optima.  I keep my shots less than 100 yards.  Dont get alot of blood in most cases, but generally the animal is laying within 25 steps of where it was shot.


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## Deernut3 (Jul 22, 2020)

When I was researching a 200yd 50cal load everything with good down range trajectory was 290 grain and up.


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## formula1 (Jul 23, 2020)

I shoot a 300 grain .458 cal Nosler Partition out of a T/C Encore. 110 grains of BH209. Now I don't know how fast it is but I know how it shoots. I once shot a doe at 182 yards with it. DRT.  Drops 6-7 inches at 200 with a sight in 3" high at 100. I'm almost out of the NP so I'm thinking of moving to a .458 Barnes. Got lots of sabots for 458.


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## Darkhorse (Jul 25, 2020)

I killed my first muzzleloader deer, a 7 point, in 1976. I was shooting .530 round balls patched with .018 pillow ticking. The ball penetrated completely through and the deer was DRT.
Can't count or remember the number of deer and wild hogs I've taken with the .530 round ball, weight averages 220 to 224 grains. I've shot them with a low charge of 70 grains 3fg to a high of 120 grains of 2fg. Nearly all of them complete pass throughs. I don't remember ever feeling the need for 30 '06 performance out of a caplock or flintlock.
The name of the game use to be defined by how well you can shoot your rifle.


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 25, 2020)

leesmith said:


> My muzzleloader is zeroed at 200


I said me, not you. My muzzleloaders have open sights and are "zeroed" at 50 yards.  I personally enjoy muzzleloader hunting as a short-range woods hunting experience. I know they are capable of much more, I have a couple friends who shoot long-range silhouette matches with them out to 1000 yards, and that's traditional mls. The modern muzzleloaders are fine, capable weapons, but they just hold zero interest for me, personally.


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## across the river (Jul 25, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> I push a 45cal 300gr bullet at 2,900fps out of my muzzleloader.  That's faster than my 30-06 handloads with a 180gr bullet at 2750fps.
> Shooters are easily breaking 2,300fps and up to 2,600fps using BH209 out of rifles dedicated for heavy charges.
> Guys are shooting muzzleloaders, sidelocks, to 1,000yds and have been for decades.
> 
> ...




And I've seen one of those little FWD Volkswagen Golfs run a sub 10 quarter mile, but that doesn't mean then one on the lot will.   A "custom muzzleloader" and a "regular muzzleloader" you buy at Academy or Bass Pro are like comparing apples and oranges.


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## leesmith (Jul 26, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I said me, not you. My muzzleloaders have open sights and are "zeroed" at 50 yards.  I personally enjoy muzzleloader hunting as a short-range woods hunting experience. I know they are capable of much more, I have a couple friends who shoot long-range silhouette matches with them out to 1000 yards, and that's traditional mls. The modern muzzleloaders are fine, capable weapons, but they just hold zero interest for me, personally.


I have 1 muzzleloader with open sights,  I think i have it sighted at 50 yds as well.  I think it it a cva wolf.  I love to shoot my long range muzzleloaders but I have only killed 1 deer with a muzzleloader so far and it was at 30 yards hahaha


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## gemihur (Aug 5, 2020)

TC Encore w/209x50 barrel will really amaze you... and that's conventional.
Heck, the boys are using smokeless powder in them front stuffers now!
"A Bad Bull Muzzleloader will shoot a 275 gr. Jacketed Bullet at a muzzle velocity of 3100 FPS." ... http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/ 
I like my black powder guns to smell like a Civil War skirmish.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 8, 2020)

leesmith said:


> I have 1 muzzleloader with open sights,  I think i have it sighted at 50 yds as well.  I think it it a cva wolf.  I love to shoot my long range muzzleloaders but I have only killed 1 deer with a muzzleloader so far and it was at 30 yards hahaha


I love shooting them and smelling black powder smoke. Love hunting with them, too. I've killed a train car load with sidelock muzzleloaders over the years, probably a lot more than I have with a centerfire suppository rifle. Most <50 yards.


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