# Apologetics & Christianity



## Ruger#3 (Jul 16, 2019)

I hope the regulars here will indulge a passerby a question.

I noted the forum is setup so Apologetics is categorized with Atheist and Agnostics.

Is there a general opinion that those practicing Apologetics are not Christians?
If so, please explain the basis of the premise.

FYI, Apologetics is not my faith or major part there of.


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## StriperAddict (Jul 18, 2019)

Can there be an "Apologetic" Mormon? An "Apologetic" JW? An "Apologetic" Muslim?  I suppose so, if the definition is accepted broadly.
Yet I have always seen Apologetics used as in Christians defending the faith of the gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. I suppose one could say that every believer is an Apologetic of the faith.  Just my observation, no rule or dogma implied.


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## Ruger#3 (Jul 18, 2019)

StriperAddict said:


> Can there be an "Apologetic" Mormon? An "Apologetic" JW? An "Apologetic" Muslim?  I suppose so, if the definition is accepted broadly.
> Yet I have always seen Apologetics used as in Christians defending the faith of the gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. I suppose one could say that every believer is an Apologetic of the faith.  Just my observation, no rule or dogma implied.



I believe you see it as I do, an apologetic studies to be schooled to defend ones beliefs. The Christian Apologetics stemming from the early church defending the teachings of Jesus Christ. To some degree I think all Christians are apologist as we witness and spread the message of salvation. Some churches have the study of apologetics as a foundational principal.

In hind sight, a Christian Apologist is in appropriate company with the nonbeliever.


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## GeorgiaBob (Jul 18, 2019)

My friend, "apologetics" is not a faith tradition, nor the lack thereof. An "apologetic" is someone who offeres a formal justification or defense. The "second meaning" for the word apologize does not exclusively apply to discussions of faith, but limited use in other modern contexts does leave disscussions of religion as a major point of reference for apologetic literature.

I have often been on the GON forum writing as an apologist for the second amendment.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 18, 2019)

Ruger#3 said:


> In hind sight, a Christian Apologist is in appropriate company with the nonbeliever.



Perhaps the powers that be thought the Apologetics were best to be chosen for that mission. Kind of clever when you think about it.


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## Ruger#3 (Jul 18, 2019)

GeorgiaBob said:


> My friend, "apologetics" is not a faith tradition, nor the lack thereof. An "apologetic" is someone who offeres a formal justification or defense. The "second meaning" for the word apologize does not exclusively apply to discussions of faith, but limited use in other modern contexts does leave disscussions of religion as a major point of reference for apologetic literature.
> 
> I have often been on the GON forum writing as an apologist for the second amendment.



GB I appreciate the response and in general practice you are correct. However, being I chose the Christian forum and asked specifically as it pertains to Christianity I think my intent was clear.


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## Ruger#3 (Jul 18, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Perhaps the powers that be thought the Apologetics were best to be chosen for that mission. Kind of clever when you think about it.



Maybe so, at first glance it appears out of place but in retrospect not so much. Maybe an unseen hand was at work there.


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## GunnSmokeer (Jul 18, 2019)

I think the idea of  organizing the forums the way they are is so that the atheists won't be gang-banged by every self-identifying Christian, but rather will be challenged only by a small number of Christian apologists who have studied how to both use scripture and secular knowledge and logic to be persuasive in arguing a point for the truth of the Good News.


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## Madman (Jul 18, 2019)

*15*But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,  1 peter 3:15

The word in Greek for reason is apologia, to give a plea.

That is the Christian origin.  As for any other faith, I'm not sure where they would get it.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 19, 2019)

Ah, I might be wrong bigly... but Apologetics in the Chrisitan forums will soon get some one banned or labeled a heretic etc.. And some denominations have Apologetics as a mode of expression of their faith walk. They have been weaned on Apologetics...by Apologist parents... they swim it it like ambiotic fuild, they have had their dippers changed in it , they use it for...for exercise, recreation, fun and fightin.


And  so where it gets all bogged down in the Christian sections is when Apologetics is used to defend doctrine  opposed to the views of other Christian denominations... who don't give a lick about Apologetics... or they dont care much for  the Apologists who have made Apologetics their honey.


The Apologists, who have it so fine as to know that:  " All don't mean all, all of the time."  or such crowds tend to be know-it-alls ...in the Christian sections... leaving the run of the mill Christian choked in their dust.  : )

They are viewed as gnats more than doves... or biting gnats as apposed to swarming ants... etc...


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## Israel (Jul 20, 2019)

Ruger#3 said:


> Maybe so, at first glance it appears out of place but in retrospect not so much. Maybe an unseen hand was at work there.


I cannot but agree. I can see a lumping. Whether it's just some form of concession by man but purposed by God...I can see where each man is kinda confronted with where he comes down in that consideration.

Inclusion of atheists and agnostics...in a spiritual section? But then, that itself is already formed of another inclusion "spiritual help and religion discussions" mixing the spiritual and the religious. I think I have yet to find a Hindu or a Muslim showing up, or much else than identifies itself to some form of christian, but I have not been a participant since inception...nor have I read every post/thread since inception. 

So in one sense it appears a de facto "christian" "not christian" (by inclusion of atheists and agnostics) more than anything else...with that subsection of "not christian" inclusive of apologists. (Who I suppose could present as either some form of christian or not, but again, I have never seen anything but that show up there...no Muslims have made argument, or Hindu, or I believe, even Jew) And if we participate we find ourselves "in that mix".

And not unsurprisingly one finds in what considers itself "atheist" and/or "agnostic" a common confession to having once been of some form of christian or another, I also believe I have yet to meet anyone "there" otherwise. I don't think I've yet run into the "purebred" atheist whose pedigree is confessedly untouched by any manner of participation ever in things called religious...but in this case particularly "christian".

It's great stuff, really. The working of that "unseen hand" in all.



And Mom's at the top of the stairs telling me my hot pockets are done.  Sorry mom, can't come up right now.


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## Ruger#3 (Jul 20, 2019)

Madman said:


> *15*But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,  1 peter 3:15
> 
> The word in Greek for reason is apologia, to give a plea.
> 
> That is the Christian origin.  As for any other faith, I'm not sure where they would get it.



This is my understanding and perspective.


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## atlashunter (Jul 23, 2019)

GunnSmokeer said:


> I think the idea of  organizing the forums the way they are is so that the atheists won't be gang-banged by every self-identifying Christian, but rather will be challenged only by a small number of Christian apologists who have studied how to both use scripture and secular knowledge and logic to be persuasive in arguing a point for the truth of the Good News.



A small number indeed in spite of the instruction given in 1 Peter 3:15 to be ready to give a defense of your faith.


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## j_seph (Jul 23, 2019)

My understanding was that an apologetic was one who did not believe like say an atheist. Then through their own studies that are apologetic becuase they found the truth and now believe.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 23, 2019)

j_seph said:


> My understanding was that an apologetic was one who did not believe like say an atheist. Then through their own studies that are apologetic becuase they found the truth and now believe.


Interesting, I've never heard it explained that way. I thought it meant a Christian that liked to argue with Atheist.


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## Ruger#3 (Jul 23, 2019)

j_seph said:


> My understanding was that an apologetic was one who did not believe like say an atheist. Then through their own studies that are apologetic becuase they found the truth and now believe.



That's an interesting take.
I asked this question as I have a close family member attending a church which has apologetics as a major part of their faith.  They seem to believe it is a key part of your responsibility as a christian to be able to make a learned argument when witnessing to an unbeliever or speaking on a biblical topic.


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## j_seph (Jul 23, 2019)

Check out his guy, we are friends on FB and have some close friends who are close to him personally. He was Atheist and as his ministry says, he found the Truth

https://www.daveglander.com/


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## Israel (Jul 24, 2019)

Ruger#3 said:


> That's an interesting take.
> I asked this question as I have a close family member attending a church which has apologetics as a major part of their faith.  They seem to believe it is a key part of your responsibility as a christian to be able to make a learned argument when witnessing to an unbeliever or speaking on a biblical topic.




I would imagine that that a great deal of what is identified as motive toward _apologetics_ is buttressed by this scripture:

Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that you have.

And it is not as though if this scripture_ were absent in its particular instruction _that the believer is nevertheless in the world to a God purposed_ end, _which has never excluded interactions with unbelievers.
But, as with all scripture, it is given to the end of believing, and particularly for those who _do believe to _a deeper establishment in the faith.

Therefore, I do not view this in less than an encouragement to the believer..."know what you say you believe". The believer...is to know the reason for the hope he has which is of far greater import than making what appears simply persuasive argument. Now, of course this is not at all excluded for the believer knows that in the gospel itself...is persuasion.

Some may take it otherwise, and I am convinced do, that adequately informed contentions are the end of presentation. And so there can be a whole field of endeavor now devoted to what has sprung up as apologetics. A sort of "ministry" of itself. And, as you say...emphasized...as a major part of "a faith". So much so now that a buffet is set even to the worldling in such degree that it is not unusual to hear "don't speak to us of Jesus Christ...or the gospel...present _your reason _in and for contest." Well, this will have great appeal to any who would take their stand upon their logic, their reasoning ability, and also make an appeal to those who would hope to _be expert_ in those.

I cannot separate, and God forbid I seek to, the seeing of this scripture in any less or greater light (though there be none to my mind that is greater) than this scripture:

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

And to be frank, I do not see Peter seeking to establish in the mind of the believer that if he can make a sound enough argument he _will know_ a success in argument. (Which I also believe is a sort of greasily filmy and clinging miasma in thought) For if we take the greater context of that instruction, it is surrounded in this:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and _be_ ready always to _give _an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

It does not take long in some discussion to discover an assault taking place. We may sense this against our "reason" or reasoning ability...or logic...or find some accusation of being the naive, the gullible...the unintelligent, the foolish, the absurd...whatever form it may take of shaming to a provocation, and specifically in hope of provocation. And it is not unusual to find this having some traction in us...especially in whatever measure we treasure appearing as reasonable, intelligent, informed...and not as naif. But the point of this provocation, if seen past its transparent feint, is the assault upon this:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts


For the man who submits to the personal taking of insult will find he must either "fall back" to this sanctifying, or by further effort to press his own reason to an exaltation past insult, abandon Christ as Lord in his minding.

We have all reason for hope. Our hope is all of reason...being given of the all knowing God through Christ. We may do well to remember when being confronted on the grounds of our ability to contend, that if there were clever enough argument to make, or given, a thing to bend man's intellect to the truth so that he might "approve it", the cross is made of no necessity.

But for those who have yet to learn of both its necessity, and inexpressible delight, a thing might be found offered them, and being offered by those who likewise, claiming some authority have not yet learned these...

There is something Paul says, there is something Jesus says...but we believe...of same spirit.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.


And ye shall be hated of all _men_ for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


What impetus would any believer find to stop short of either of the above? Or, _not embrace_...both?


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## 1gr8bldr (Jul 26, 2019)

Ruger#3 said:


> I hope the regulars here will indulge a passerby a question.
> 
> I noted the forum is setup so Apologetics is categorized with Atheist and Agnostics.
> 
> ...


Apologetics are not for the average Christian. It can be tough, can cause a crisis, and need be undertaken by someone whom can make a good defense. Those unprepared can do more harm than good. Truth is, you need to know the full arguments, both sides, before you can debate effectively. It's not for the faint of heart. This is why it is listed with the Atheist group. To keep others from seeing it until they can handle it. This is why I don't debate Christianity in the upper forums. I think the Athiest are very respectful because they don't venture into the upper forums, taking stabs. They respectfully stay in the Athiest/apologetic forum. CARM discussion forum is a good example. it's an apologetic forum. The entire forum is extremely nasty, arguing over every little detail. You would not want your kids to view Christians going to bat against Christians in this way. Apologetics has no place for opinion, belief or faith. It deals with more verifiable things. Saying all scripture is God breathed is not apologetic. And what is factual to one person needs to be proved to another.


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