# Darwinian Evolution



## j_seph (Jul 14, 2019)

https://evolutionnews.org/2015/01/problem_5_abrup/


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## ambush80 (Jul 14, 2019)

j_seph said:


> https://evolutionnews.org/2015/01/problem_5_abrup/



_“microevolution does not provide a satisfactory explanation for the extraordinary burst of novelty during the Cambrian Explosion” and concludes “the major evolutionary transitions in animal evolution still remain to be causally explained. _

Do you want them to keep trying to find out what happened or are you good with the Biblical explanation and think they should stop all this scientific foolishness?


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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2019)

Courtesy of the Discovery Institute. 

The entire world including every scientific branch not only agrees 100% with the DI, but have also stopped all further testing and research because the DI is just so darn accurate...irrefutable really.

Excellent job j-seph.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 14, 2019)

If scientist missed the mark on evolution does it mean all science is false? I feel this from the body of my heart. That is what we think with, right?
Matters of the heart? Looked what they missed about the rainbow. Unless God created things using science.


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 14, 2019)

I assume nothing, either it happened or it didn't. Either he lied or he's telling the truth. One or the other.
Sort of like asking you does God exist. Just because you say he doesn't am I supposed to believe you? - j_seph

Just because you say evolution doesn't exist, are we supposed to believe you?
Do you have some evidence it didn't happen?
... Other than just implying there is a problem with it...


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 14, 2019)




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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2019)

J_seph does not bother to find out what information is available on the things he brought up above.
He uses a creationist website as his one and only source which is directly refuted by science.
He/we have covered all these things umpteen times already but it has been awhile and the other threads are not going well for believers so it was time to introduce another rehash.


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 14, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself a Christian and a seeker.
I can only have faith that there is a higher power, but am watching for some evidence.
I consider faith and knowledge separate.


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 14, 2019)

Cue the Christians who say that faith is the basis of knowledge.
And that I'll never be a true Christian until I change.


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## Israel (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> Cue the Christians who say that faith is the basis of knowledge.
> And that I'll never be a true Christian until I change.


Why...are you the only man who doesn't _believe_ he knows what he thinks he knows?


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## hummerpoo (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> https://evolutionnews.org/2015/01/problem_5_abrup/



34 footnotes/sources
That will keep you off the keyboard for a while.



> [75.] C.P. Hickman, L.S. Roberts, and F.M. Hickman, _Integrated Principles of Zoology_, p. 866 (Times Mirror/Moseby College Publishing, 1988, 8th ed).


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> Cue the Christians who say that faith is the basis of knowledge.
> And that I'll never be a true Christian until I change.



Can the Ethiopian change his skin? Can the leopard change his spots?


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

https://evolutionid.wordpress.com/2...a-my-take-on-the-discovery-institutes-claims/


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Can the Ethiopian change his skin? Can the leopard change his spots?


Can a donkey talk? Can the dead reanimate? Can people fly into the sky?


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/darwins-dilemma-solved/story?id=26791766


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

From the Christian Science Monitor 
https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/0913/Evolutionary-biologists-resolve-Darwin-s-dilemma


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130912131753.htm


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

https://m.phys.org/news/2013-09-biologists-evolution-big.html


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## hummerpoo (Jul 15, 2019)

*



			References
		
Click to expand...

*


> JewsforJudaism.org: Why Jews Cannot Accept the New Testament
> OU.org: The Rambam's Thirteen Principles of Jewish Faith
> Padfield.com: The Four Gospels
> The Law of Moses or the Law of Christ
> ...




VS

*



			References:
		
Click to expand...

*


> [65.] Charles Darwin, _The Origin of Species_ (1859), p. 292 (reprint, London: Penguin Group, 1985).
> [66.] Ibid.
> [67.] Ibid.
> [68.] Stephen Jay Gould, “Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?” _Paleobiology_, 6(1): 119-130 (1980).
> ...




and

*



			About the Author
		
Click to expand...

*


> Michele Rosen has been writing for more than 20 years. Her articles have appeared in the "Academy of Education, Journalism and Mass Communication Journal" and the "New Jersey League of Municipalities Magazine." She has also written numerous columns published in Gannett newspapers. Rosen holds a **** in industrial engineering and an M.A. in organizational communications.



VS.

https://evolutionnews.org/author/cluskin/

http://caseyluskin.com/bio-cv.htm


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

FAITH
We all have it, just some base their Faith in GOD while others base their Faith in man. Man will let you down, been proven over and over. Never had that problem where my Faith is.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Can a donkey talk? Can the dead reanimate? Can people fly into the sky?



With man, it's impossible. But with God, all things are possible.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> FAITH
> We all have it, just some base their Faith in GOD while others base their Faith in man. Man will let you down, been proven over and over. Never had that problem where my Faith is.



2 Thess. 3:2 
Re-examine your statement brother.


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> With man, it's impossible. But with God, all things are possible.


Then why ask your questions about Ethiopians and Leopards?


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> With man, it's impossible. But with God, all things are possible.


Must be true!
All these Gods have the same Anything Is Possible Powers
https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=3461


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> With man, it's impossible. But with God, all things are possible.



This is one of the things I'd be interested in 'seeking'.
I've never seen God make anything possible that was heretofor impossible.


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> 2 Thess. 3:2
> Re-examine your statement brother.


To explain my comment. 
Faith Definition:
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.


I have Faith in GOD, they have faith in someone or something


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> To explain my comment.
> Faith Definition:
> 1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
> 2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
> ...



Are you sure these definitions fit the faith that is spoken of in God's word? As found in Eph.4:5?
I think you use the word "faith" very loosely, in this context.


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> This is one of the things I'd be interested in 'seeking'.
> I've never seen God make anything possible that was heretofor impossible.


My wife as I have mentioned was Grade 3 diastolic heart failure, man said she could stay at 3 or go to 4 but either way she would have this the rest of her life and be on medication for it for the rest of her life. She had a little talk with Jesus at an alter one Sunday morning, came back to the pew and said I am healed, I said what? She said Jesus just healed me. Her next appointment the Dr was asking what had she done, that this just does not happen. There is no medical explanation for it. Next recheck same question was asked, same answer given him and he still says this does not happen. Last recheck, he asked once again and he said he would have to figure out how to fill out her chart cause this does not happen. All man could do was treat it, My God could cure it. She could not walk to mailbox and back without being out of breath, maybe 60 yards round trip. Not long after her healing we hiked several miles at Cades Cove to a waterfall, uphill and downhill. All things are possible through Christ, it first takes the faith to believe in him and trust in him. Ye have not cause you ask not.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Then why ask your questions about Ethiopians and Leopards?



The context of the questions ,where found in scripture, is of a rhetorical nature. They're  being asked to point out that, no, THEY cannot change. But that God does the changing.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Must be true!
> All these Gods have the same Anything Is Possible Powers
> https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=3461



You sure?
Prove it.


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 15, 2019)

The story of your wife justifies your opinion. Not mine.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> This is one of the things I'd be interested in 'seeking'.
> I've never seen God make anything possible that was heretofor impossible.



Not even within you?


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> You sure?
> Prove it.


They/you are religious believers, no proof needed.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jul 15, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> _“microevolution does not provide a satisfactory explanation for the extraordinary burst of novelty during the Cambrian Explosion” and concludes “the major evolutionary transitions in animal evolution still remain to be causally explained. _
> 
> Do you want them to keep trying to find out what happened or are you good with the Biblical explanation and think they should stop all this scientific foolishness?



There's ample enough valid science to debunk "macro" evolution completely if you want the truth.   That's not even debatable.   The problem is, in addition to being a scientific theory Evolution also has vast philosophical, social an cultural ramifications, so much so that it could be argued that evolution is a Belief partially supported by a scientific theory.  There are numerous, RECOGNIZED, SKEPTICS across the philosophical and scientific landscape that recognize the fact that as a scientific theory Evolution CAN'T be true and that is becoming more apparent with each passing day and each new scientific discovery.    The problem is that these SKEPTICS, are given no voice because of the implications it would have on the integrity of the scientific community, which would be catastrophic,(THINK:Evolution has been taught as FACT for 2-3 generations in the public schools), not to mention the cultural and societal ramifications.  In short scientist, secularism, and academia all hitched their horse to evolution, which has in turn, turned out to be false, yet the only people who have the integrity to unhitch the horse are being strong-armed and gagged by everyone else who are trying to get as far as they can until he dashes off the cliff.  Sadly that's the truth.

So yeah, let them keep trying to find out what happened.  At some point in the next 2-300 years perhaps society can learn the lesson that basing every cultural and societal decision on an unproven scientific theory is a bad idea, perhaps even worse that basing them on a unproven religious theory.  At least with religious theory, as bad as many have been misconstrued and misused, there is a moral ethos.


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

bullethead said:


> They/you are religious believers, no proof needed.



Lol. gotcha


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> Nope. Have seen no impossibilities happen within me or my mind.



Have you been enabled to love all people, even those you once considered your worst enemies?


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## 1eyefishing (Jul 15, 2019)

I try to have compassion and empathy for all, even my enemies so that I can understand the ground they stand on.
Of course, this is after I quit fuming...ha.
I feel like I try to live a life that Jesus would be proud of, not for God, but for me  It is the best thing for me. In other words, I feel like my life is better this way, as opposed to if living differently.


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## bullethead (Jul 15, 2019)

SemperFiDawg said:


> There's ample enough valid science to debunk "macro" evolution completely if you want the truth.   That's not even debatable.   The problem is, in addition to being a scientific theory Evolution also has vast philosophical, social an cultural ramifications, so much so that it could be argued that evolution is a Belief partially supported by a scientific theory.  There are numerous, RECOGNIZED, SKEPTICS across the philosophical and scientific landscape that recognize the fact that as a scientific theory Evolution CAN'T be true and that is becoming more apparent with each passing day and each new scientific discovery.    The problem is that these SKEPTICS, are given no voice because of the implications it would have on the integrity of the scientific community, which would be catastrophic,(THINK:Evolution has been taught as FACT for 2-3 generations in the public schools), not to mention the cultural and societal ramifications.  In short scientist, secularism, and academia all hitched their horse to evolution, which has in turn, turned out to be false, yet the only people who have the integrity to unhitch the horse are being strong-armed and gagged by everyone else who are trying to get as far as they can until he dashes off the cliff.  Sadly that's the truth.
> 
> So yeah, let them keep trying to find out what happened.  At some point in the next 2-300 years perhaps society can lean the lesson that basing every cultural and societal decision on an unproven scientific theory is a bad idea, perhaps even worse that basing them on a unproven religious theory.  At least with religious theory, as bad as many have been misconstrued and misused, there is a moral ethos.





SemperFiDawg said:


> There's ample enough valid science to debunk "macro" evolution completely if you want the truth.   That's not even debatable.



https://evolutionlist.blogspot.com/2009/02/macroevolution-examples-and-evidence.html?m=1


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## welderguy (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> I try to have compassion and empathy for all, even my enemies so that I can understand the ground they stand on.
> Of course, this is after I quit fuming...ha.
> I feel like I try to live a life that Jesus would be proud of, not for God, but for me  It is the best thing for me. In other words, I feel like my life is better this way, as opposed to if living differently.



Well, there you go.  What you describe is contrary to basic human nature.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jul 15, 2019)

1eyefishing said:


> View attachment 976127



This meme is only rings true to the casual observer.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> To explain my comment.
> Faith Definition:
> 1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
> 2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
> ...


1. A god is a "something".
2. Christianity has given the Christian God a human form, a personality, emotions.....
in other words they have made a god a "someone" so you can relate to him.
You aren't special. You have faith in a someone or something.


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

Well good afternoon Walt, glad you could join us today. Hows the fishing been?


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## atlashunter (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> FAITH
> We all have it, just some base their Faith in GOD while others base their Faith in man. Man will let you down, been proven over and over. Never had that problem where my Faith is.



Remember that if you ever require life saving medical care. Don’t go to a doctor. Just say a prayer and leave it in gods able hands.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 15, 2019)

SemperFiDawg said:


> There's ample enough valid science to debunk "macro" evolution completely if you want the truth.   That's not even debatable.   The problem is, in addition to being a scientific theory Evolution also has vast philosophical, social an cultural ramifications, so much so that it could be argued that evolution is a Belief partially supported by a scientific theory.  There are numerous, RECOGNIZED, SKEPTICS across the philosophical and scientific landscape that recognize the fact that as a scientific theory Evolution CAN'T be true and that is becoming more apparent with each passing day and each new scientific discovery.    The problem is that these SKEPTICS, are given no voice because of the implications it would have on the integrity of the scientific community, which would be catastrophic,(THINK:Evolution has been taught as FACT for 2-3 generations in the public schools), not to mention the cultural and societal ramifications.  In short scientist, secularism, and academia all hitched their horse to evolution, which has in turn, turned out to be false, yet the only people who have the integrity to unhitch the horse are being strong-armed and gagged by everyone else who are trying to get as far as they can until he dashes off the cliff.  Sadly that's the truth.
> 
> So yeah, let them keep trying to find out what happened.  At some point in the next 2-300 years perhaps society can learn the lesson that basing every cultural and societal decision on an unproven scientific theory is a bad idea, perhaps even worse that basing them on a unproven religious theory.  At least with religious theory, as bad as many have been misconstrued and misused, there is a moral ethos.





> The problem is that these SKEPTICS, are given no voice because of the implications it would have on the integrity of the scientific community,


A phone, YouTube and your amazing scientific discovery or denial goes around the world to multimillions at the click of your finger.
The "cant get the word out" excuse has gone obsolete.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Well good afternoon Walt, glad you could join us today. Hows the fishing been?


I have a confession to make.
"Forgive me Father for I have sinned...."
I just spent 3 days camping right on the lake (Lanier). I leaned my fishing pole against a tree when I got there and it never moved the entire time. Didn't take a single cast.
There is something really wrong about that.


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I have a confession to make.
> "Forgive me Father for I have sinned...."
> I just spent 3 days camping right on the lake (Lanier). I leaned my fishing pole against a tree when I got there and it never moved the entire time. Didn't take a single cast.
> There is something really wrong about that.


Maybe there was a revelation there and you just enjoyed Gods beauty yet you just haven't seen that revelation yet.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 15, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Maybe there was a revelation there and you just enjoyed Gods beauty yet you just haven't seen that revelation yet.


Or maybe I was just too busy grilling, eating and napping


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## j_seph (Jul 15, 2019)

A lot of that holy spirit will make one tired and hungry. Physically and Spiritually


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 15, 2019)

welderguy said:


> The context of the questions ,where found in scripture, is of a rhetorical nature. They're  being asked to point out that, no, THEY cannot change. But that God does the changing.



I would agree that God could make the Ethiopian change from Adam until that change occurred. Perhaps from Noah until God made that change occur. It may have happened overnight or it  may have occurred slowly over many years.


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## Israel (Jul 16, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Or maybe I was just too busy grilling, eating and napping




Come, let us test this _new devotion_ to grilling, eating and napping that might cause a man to forget he is a fisherman. Oh, it's easily done when the temperatures are above 90, and the lethargy of a full belly take hold in provisions carried in...not so much perhaps when only what you catch is what you shall eat.

Shall we venture to a place where the mist settles evening to overnight and through such cool stillness the air fills in echo of wailing loons to capture all of hearing? And fireside coffee conquers the nose? (yes, we shall bring _some _things)

Awakening to a lazy fog so heavily lying on lakes surface we cannot see but 20 feet from lightly lapping shore. Yet holding all of promise in the unseen. Where morning invades nostrils with lingering scent of yesternight's humble flame on charred limbs of spent oak, and bladder's relief is not sought in plumbed facility, but behind that tree. Yes! Even pi** smells good here in morning mix on moldering leaves.


I think I would like to go with you Walt, where lake is not dotted round about with custom homes and weekend campsites but boulders ancient and scattered...off of which we shall bounce spinners, Zara spooks, and daredevils. And we shall make topwaters dance. Where we may be the only of our species we see all of the day. And only other faces found belong to Lucius of the Esox clan...or Vitreus of the Sander family. (Dare we hope Mr. Masquinongy appear to our delight?)

Shall we eat of wild blueberry bushes side stepping bear scat all around?
Shall we go here? Go here to test this puzzling_ forgetfulness? New found neglect?_

Canada has got only one less than a zillion lakes, pick one_._

_And let us point our prow._


For we are men...even _fisher_ men, brave men, bold men, free men!

(I just gotta clear it with my wife)


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## welderguy (Jul 16, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> I would agree that God could make the Ethiopian change from Adam until that change occurred. Perhaps from Noah until God made that change occur. It may have happened overnight or it  may have occurred slowly over many years.



My post had nothing at all to do with evolution, as you seem to have mistakenly perceived. Sorry for the distraction from the thread.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 16, 2019)

welderguy said:


> My post had nothing at all to do with evolution, as you seem to have mistakenly perceived. Sorry for the distraction from the thread.



Yet how did we all come from just one man? There had to be some type of change that allowed so many races of people that all came from the same origin.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 16, 2019)

Can an _Ethiopian_ change his skin or a _leopard_ its spots? Well, no not in the present but somehow both man and animals "have"changed their appearance. They thmeselves haven't but God has. Look at all of the domesticated plants and animals. Corn is a good example. It's not even close in appearance in the way it started out.


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## 660griz (Jul 16, 2019)

Pick the human one. 
Point may be lost but...


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## WaltL1 (Jul 17, 2019)

Israel said:


> Come, let us test this _new devotion_ to grilling, eating and napping that might cause a man to forget he is a fisherman. Oh, it's easily done when the temperatures are above 90, and the lethargy of a full belly take hold in provisions carried in...not so much perhaps when only what you catch is what you shall eat.
> 
> Shall we venture to a place where the mist settles evening to overnight and through such cool stillness the air fills in echo of wailing loons to capture all of hearing? And fireside coffee conquers the nose? (yes, we shall bring _some _things)
> 
> ...


I like the picture that you paint. Its accurate too... especially the


> Oh, it's easily done when the temperatures are above 90, and the lethargy of a full belly take hold


Assuming your wife clears it, you would be welcome at my campfire any time


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## Israel (Jul 17, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I like the picture that you paint. Its accurate too... especially the
> 
> Assuming your wife clears it, you would be welcome at my campfire any time


Man...I am talking ROAD TRIP!!!!!

I am talking (you'll be able to see I really been thinking about this...in fact I even re read my post to see if I mean what I say)

Let's talk about the complete and utter impossibility of heading NORTH! And establish a feasibility study! Ha! I am relatively free of work constraints (semi retired...work when I accept schedule) and could easily string together (it appears) a week to 10 days.
You ever been to that faraway and exotic land called Canada?
I'm gettin' giddy now I know...and it can be a bit unbearable. Un-bear-able...get it? Bears in Canada and such? The last time I went back in 93 we headed to this inland ocean called Reservoir Gouin...in Quebec. I love French Canadians...they can be so utterly given to not responding to Americans in anything but French unless you quote back to them the wrong price on something they are trying to sell you! They're great.


"Did you say cinque dollars?"   "that's three, right?"


"No, it's five!."

Hey...I lived in Jersey at the time and it was the time the Devil's (hockey) won all the marbles. I learned how to ask (to concede to their frenchianity) in French "Where is the Cup of Stanley". How much fun you'd have travelling with someone like that! Bring ice for swollen lips and head injuries.

But...really...could it be? Might it be? Are we "evolving?" (Gotta keep to the OP!) Decorum and all. Anyway...that last time we just loaded a van with camping stuff...headed up to Parent (about 5 hours north of Montreal) and then got on this washboard of a dirt logging road for 70 something miles and hit glory land. Saw bear...ate wild bluebes...and found our own little spot on an isolated point and set up camp. No fees, no facilities...no nothing...but us, our tent, scanoe, outboard, and set up fifty feet from the shore. And the wonderful feeling of at least being if not on pristine ground...very far less frequented. And not one person came by to "check us out". And here my brother mused as we used a fallen maple/elm/oak/ash/(?) to relieve ourselves "I wonder if that's where the word latrine comes from...la=the, trine=tree????? He's a brilliant guy...jes like me.

I won't get in to too much telling (some guys find me...uh...too prolix). But we caught several Pike ( I get flutters when I think of walleye...but am no expert) and only caught a very few of them...BUT...hope springs eternal. Had what I believe was a Muskie...till he launched and sent the daredevil spoon zinging past my ear once he knew he was hooked (on a different body of water) caught more smallmouth than I can recall (I don't despise bass, but they just don't "do it" for me) and generally had more fun than I would consider a man should have in 2 lifetimes. But the thing about fun is the more you have...the more you...

Seriously... I don't know if it's too late in the year, now. What your constraints are. Even if you have any inclination...at all. I like "cold water" Cold water lakes, cold water rivers...and I do so love adventures. I wouldn't shun your campfire here in Georgia...God forbid! But man...I do have often dreams of that northern land...that stranger place, that wilderness...and have never abandoned hope of some form of return. It made me sing a song about what can happen overnight when its just you, the fairly wild outdoors...and things that transpire...."The best part of waking up is mouse tuuuuurds in your cup"

Any way...I did a search or two yesterday. (But you feel free to throw the dart...or not... at the map...or just say "vous êtes fou") This place:

https://www.chaletsbaiedusud.com/fr/tarification-reservoir-gouin-pourvoirie-chalets-baie-du-sud/

for like 999 canadian =750 american dollars, gringo...one gets a cabin, a 16 foot boat (if I read french correctly) un moteur...for 7 days. Nice amenities. Pretty simple...just bring a few things...no tents, no stoves, not much at all. Just rods and tackle (we'll see if you leave it leaning against that tree!)

Or...do the tent thing and either find a campground...or hope to find an abandoned spot no one will bother us. And we'd have to bring a boat/canoe/ or build a raft! (And I no longer own a scanoe...but I'm willing to see what's for sale on Marketplace!) (requires lotsa stuff being carried...or more, anyway)



OR. OR OR...this: (that would still require a barque of some sort)


drive as far as we can in your or my vehicle with respect to gas prices...rent a class C like in northern NY (or even Canada)..and then go find a campground...or place to set up. But that means we get to poop indoors...is that a deal breaker? I guess I could...learn.


Now, I said all that to get to this. Your call. I only mention Gouin cause I been there...it's huge, and (was) very wild, and a joy (for me). BUT! You my friend...you may say "Israel...you piker you, you small minded, short sighted, provincially minded little dweeb! Let us aim at Ontario (been several times)  or Manitoba! (never been) Probably still doable with a 10 day allowance or so.(?) Ontario also was pretty wild in the north...and I imagine Manitoba even more so.


OR...you could say...whatever.


Regardless...just thinking about this has now given me an additional amount of fun to fill another lifetime...I find nothing much anymore "off the table" in seeing I am now being made able to make room for everything "being on the table" (too cryptic?)


Anyway...I like thoughts of real stuff...even like this thing...
Which was caught in Minnesota, I think. Obviously ain't summer! (ever been? I hear it's got some crazy wild places, too!)

And even if we can't do it this year...everything remains on the table...for as long as it's allowed.

There's a ton of places worth exploring...but generally the deeper we get into summer...the deeper the fish go...and appealing to them becomes more of a challenge.




http://www.barragegouin.com/en/packages/deluxe-houseboat

(Rates drop after July 15)...Still pricey for me...but cool, nonetheless...


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## j_seph (Jul 17, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Yet how did we all come from just one man? There had to be some type of change that allowed so many races of people that all came from the same origin.




https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/679-where-did-the-different-races-come-from





> The Bible does not classify human beings along the “racial” lines that are common to modern thought. The Greek term that is rendered “race” — several times in the American Standard Version of the Bible (cf. Mk. 7:26; Acts 4:36; 18:2,24) — finds a variety of translation expressions in the old King James Version.
> 
> 
> The word genos occurs 21 times in the Greek New Testament. In the KJV, it is rendered by such terms as “kind” (Mt. 13:47; 17:21; 1 Cor. 12:10; 14:10), “kindred” (Acts 4:6; 7:13,19), “country” (Acts 4:36), “offspring” (Acts 17:28-29; Rev. 22:16), “nation” (Mk. 7:26; Gal. 1:14), “stock” (Acts 13:26; Phil. 3:5), “born” (Acts 18:2,24), “countryman” (2 Cor. 11:26), “generation” (1 Pet. 2:9), “diversity” (1 Cor. 12:28).
> ...


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## atlashunter (Jul 17, 2019)

j_seph said:


> https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/679-where-did-the-different-races-come-from



Evidence that any of those claims are true?


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## j_seph (Jul 17, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> Evidence that any of those claims are true?


I searched for you but I found "your" scientist had opposing data. One place says yes one place says no. So it appears that Christians aren't the only ones that tend to not see things the same way.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 17, 2019)

j_seph said:


> I searched for you but I found "your" scientist had opposing data. One place says yes one place says no. So it appears that Christians aren't the only ones that tend to not see things the same way.


That's how science is supposed to work.
Think of all the advancements man has made because somebody "didn't see it the same way".
Comparing science and religion is silly. Two completely different things at their foundation. At the foundation of science is the idea that proving something wrong is a good thing. Its how you get closer to the facts.
Religion, not so much.....
So it appears you have a choice. The scientists opposing data on a scientific subject or a creationist website's opposing data on a scientific subject that they completely oppose.


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## atlashunter (Jul 17, 2019)

j_seph said:


> I searched for you but I found "your" scientist had opposing data. One place says yes one place says no. So it appears that Christians aren't the only ones that tend to not see things the same way.



I don’t care “whose” scientist has the data. Show me the data. Show me the genetic evidence that we all descend from a single man and woman. Estimated time frames would be good too. Show me the evidence of a global flood that killed every human on the planet save for a handful in the Middle East. Show me the linguists that claim the story of the Tower of Babel is true and accounts for the diversity of human languages. Bring forth the evidence that supports these claims. Don’t give me this my scientist your scientist baloney. Just present the facts.


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## ambush80 (Jul 17, 2019)

SemperFiDawg said:


> There's ample enough valid science to debunk "macro" evolution completely if you want the truth.   That's not even debatable.   The problem is, in addition to being a scientific theory Evolution also has vast philosophical, social an cultural ramifications, so much so that it could be argued that evolution is a Belief partially supported by a scientific theory.  There are numerous, RECOGNIZED, SKEPTICS across the philosophical and scientific landscape that recognize the fact that as a scientific theory Evolution CAN'T be true and that is becoming more apparent with each passing day and each new scientific discovery.    The problem is that these SKEPTICS, are given no voice because of the implications it would have on the integrity of the scientific community, which would be catastrophic,(THINK:Evolution has been taught as FACT for 2-3 generations in the public schools), not to mention the cultural and societal ramifications.  In short scientist, secularism, and academia all hitched their horse to evolution, which has in turn, turned out to be false, yet the only people who have the integrity to unhitch the horse are being strong-armed and gagged by everyone else who are trying to get as far as they can until he dashes off the cliff.  Sadly that's the truth.
> 
> So yeah, let them keep trying to find out what happened.  At some point in the next 2-300 years perhaps society can learn the lesson that basing every cultural and societal decision on an unproven scientific theory is a bad idea, perhaps even worse that basing them on a unproven religious theory.  At least with religious theory, as bad as many have been misconstrued and misused, there is a moral ethos.



If science discovers that evolution isn't happening that's fine with me.  If they find out that Relativity is wrong that's fine with me, too.  If they find out that Jesus walked on water that's fine with me.  That would be cool.


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## Israel (Aug 9, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I like the picture that you paint. Its accurate too... especially the
> 
> Assuming your wife clears it, you would be welcome at my campfire any time


I am learning to be a patient man. I am a longing road tripper waiting on a road trip. Walt, this pic came from Saskatchewan, ha ha! Maybe next year? I've gone camping in Canada by myself and had a good time. But great times, are shared. (Wouldn't it be great if we had a whole convoy!)

I will leave this picture to its work.


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## ambush80 (Aug 9, 2019)

Israel said:


> I am learning to be a patient man. I am a longing road tripper waiting on a road trip. Walt, this pic came from Saskatchewan, ha ha! Maybe next year? I've gone camping in Canada by myself and had a good time. But great times, are shared. (Wouldn't it be great if we had a whole convoy!)
> 
> I will leave this picture to its work.View attachment 978967



I would eat that critter all up.


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## bullethead (Aug 9, 2019)

Israel said:


> I am learning to be a patient man. I am a longing road tripper waiting on a road trip. Walt, this pic came from Saskatchewan, ha ha! Maybe next year? I've gone camping in Canada by myself and had a good time. But great times, are shared. (Wouldn't it be great if we had a whole convoy!)
> 
> I will leave this picture to its work.View attachment 978967


Phenomenal


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## Israel (Aug 9, 2019)

I hope no one thought that was me. Just a fellow showing of his recent walleye catch on a FB page.


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## bullethead (Aug 9, 2019)

Israel said:


> I hope no one thought that was me. Just a fellow showing of his recent walleye catch on a FB page.


D'oh


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## Israel (Aug 14, 2019)

A bazillion lakes to choose from. Loons to sing us to sleep. Bear and Moose to intrigue and scare us, cool mornings with hot coffee/fried spam and powdered eggs....and shore lunches of walleye (hopefully). Or whatever.

You know that sound when you skid a boat up a sandy stretch to beach it...and you get out and stretch your legs after being in it all morning? You know that smell of clear fresh water in the shallows? Huh? You know that expression "it's your turn to fillet the fish, I'm going for a nap"? "And don't forget to cut the cheeks outta that Northern..."

And/or "don't forget to rebait the minnow trap." Huh?



And, "whatta ya think about hittin' that point across the bay at dusk, where that little creek feeds in?"

And the sounds of men snoring in the afternoon...and one gathering fallen limbs for the fire that night.

Huh?

And not to be rude or ignorant of the OP...I'm looking for an evolution.


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