# Christmas?



## crbrumbelow (Nov 27, 2010)

If you dont believe, why do you celebrate Christmas?  If you celebrate Christmas you do realize you are acknowledging the fact that Christ was born.  It is in fact the day that Christians believe that is 9 months after Christ was divinely conceived.


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## Lowjack (Nov 27, 2010)

Anytime you write 2010 in any document you are acknowledging Christ's birth.


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## crbrumbelow (Nov 27, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Anytime you write 2010 in any document you are acknowledging Christ's birth.



Youre absolutely right lowjack but do you think "they" realize it.


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## ambush80 (Nov 27, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> If you dont believe, why do you celebrate Christmas?  If you celebrate Christmas you do realize you are acknowledging the fact that Christ was born.  It is in fact the day that Christians believe that is 9 months after Christ was divinely conceived.



Do you REALLY want to know why Christmas is celebrated on the 25th of December?


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## crbrumbelow (Nov 27, 2010)

I *REALLY*don't care why it is celebrated on Dec. 25.  I do know there are several reasons why and it all centers around CHRIST.  So why do you celebrate Christmas if you dont believe?


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## Thor827 (Nov 29, 2010)

I only participate in Christmas for my family. I don't deny Jesus existed, just his divinity. I celebrate Yule for my own personal gratification. It works out pretty good because most of the traditions associated with Christmas aside from remembrance of Jesus (gift giving, family gatherings, the tree, the Yule log, etc.) were borrowed from Yule anyway.


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## pnome (Nov 29, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Anytime you write 2010 in any document you are acknowledging Christ's birth.


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## pnome (Nov 29, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> I *REALLY*don't care why it is celebrated on Dec. 25.  I do know there are several reasons why and it all centers around CHRIST.  So why do you celebrate Christmas if you dont believe?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice

Has nothing at all to do with Christ.

Many are the religions with holidays around this particular celestial event.  The day when the days start to get longer instead of shorter.  It is not surprising that Christians wish to expropriate this as their exclusive domain.  

Happy Holidays crbrumbelow!!


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 29, 2010)

most christians dont even acknowledge that its for christ most think "putting up a tree" is a christian tradition when its actually pagan.


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## TTom (Nov 29, 2010)

Most of the Christian Holidays were grafted onto Pagan Holidays.

From Easter, to Halloween, to Christmas the Christians have been coopting the holidays of others for centuries, all while complaining how "They" are trying to take the real meaning of Christmas away.

(You know that infamous otherwise unidentified "They")

Half the things people associate with a traditional Christmas are rooted in pagan religions, including the date.


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## davidstaples (Nov 29, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Anytime you write 2010 in any document you are acknowledging Christ's birth.



Though you know Christ wasn't born in the year 0, right?  Estimates are typically around the year 4 or 5 BC.  So I guess technically Christ was born Before Christ.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 29, 2010)

TTom said:


> Most of the Christian Holidays were grafted onto Pagan Holidays.
> 
> From Easter, to Halloween, to Christmas the Christians have been coopting the holidays of others for centuries, all while complaining how "They" are trying to take the real meaning of Christmas away.
> 
> ...



And they did this to make it easier for the various pagan tribes to assimilate into Christianity.  Christmas was formerly the celebration of the Winter Solstice.


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## Dixie Dawg (Nov 29, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> If you dont believe, why do you celebrate Christmas?  If you celebrate Christmas you do realize you are acknowledging the fact that Christ was born.  It is in fact the day that Christians believe that is 9 months after Christ was divinely conceived.




I would have to disagree. MOST Christians who know anything about their religion admit that they don't know exactly when Jesus was born/conceived, and that, in fact, given the clues from the NT, it wouldn't even be in December at all.  

I celebrate Dec. 25 the same reason the first Christians did... which is because that's when everyone else celebrates the holidays 

Happy Christmahanukkwanzica!


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## TTom (Nov 29, 2010)

Well I would be less charitable as to the word choice.

Make it easier to force the conversion of various pagan tribes.
To assimilate the pagans (like the borg).

And yes I'm pretty familiar with Pope Gregory and the change to co opt the holidays of the pagans and graft the Christian holidays onto them.


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## TTom (Nov 29, 2010)

Best guesses on Jesus's actual birth day would place it in the fall.

The sheep in Palistine are not generally in the fields after October.
The story says the shepards were in the fields with their flocks.

Several other clues about the date place it in the fall as well.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 29, 2010)

Now here is a question.... Does Christianity using pagan holidays as its own make it a less viable religion?


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## crbrumbelow (Nov 29, 2010)

pnome said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice
> 
> Has nothing at all to do with Christ.
> 
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas


Back at you.


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## Dixie Dawg (Nov 29, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
> 
> 
> Back at you.



Hate to tell you, but that link didn't exactly support your stance....

The winter solstice was celebrated long before Jesus ever came along.  There were also other deities who were worshiped before Jesus who had their birth celebrated on Dec. 25.  Go look up "Mithras".  The choice of Dec. 25 by the Christians was nothing more than an attempt to make Christianity more appealing to the pagan masses.


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## TheSnail (Nov 29, 2010)

I may be more ignorant than most, but it was not until 10grade HS that I put two and two together. That being I thought Christmas was "present day"  and not CHRIST-mas. Then again, I never went to church.  Though my parents dont believe in any of that non-sense nor did they ever state about their beliefs, which is probably why I am so clueless on religion. I will say, I wanted to believe when I was little 8-13yrs since ship just going black when you die just scared the ship out of me. Though during that time and past, my pops was a boozer and took everything out on me, so my free time away from that mess was in my bed. During that time in bed I would pray. I didnt know how to pray but I wished for god’s help to make things stop. 2years down the road, nothing has changed, just felt like an idiot to ask for assistance from a ghost. It was me and only me that stepped up and stood my ground with both hands in a fist challenging 220lbs vs my 70 despite getting tossed seconds later. So to sum things up, no influence on religion, gave it a shot and it failed. Long story short, Present Day is coming up soon!


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## crbrumbelow (Nov 29, 2010)

What you fail to realize is the point that if you celebrate Christmas you are acknowledging the fact that Christ is who he was and is.  People gave gifts to Him.  We exchange gifts.

It is in fact 2010 Anno Domini.  Look it up.  I guess I cant be worried if you dont believe.  You float around here and you have read enough to have seen the Gospel.  Your blood isnt on my hands.


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## crbrumbelow (Nov 29, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Hate to tell you, but that link didn't exactly support your stance....
> 
> The winter solstice was celebrated long before Jesus ever came along.  There were also other deities who were worshiped before Jesus who had their birth celebrated on Dec. 25.  Go look up "Mithras".  The choice of Dec. 25 by the Christians was nothing more than an attempt to make Christianity more appealing to the pagan masses.



Sure it does.  Its the first several paragraphs of the article.  

Remember what God said.  "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".  Mithras, wicca, buddah, hindu, muslim, none of them mean anything to me.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 29, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> What you fail to realize is the point that if you celebrate Christmas you are acknowledging the fact that Christ is who he was and is.  People gave gifts to Him.  We exchange gifts.
> 
> It is in fact 2010 Anno Domini.  Look it up.  I guess I cant be worried if you dont believe.  You float around here and you have read enough to have seen the Gospel.  Your blood isnt on my hands.



As long as you can sleep at night.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 29, 2010)

TheSnail said:


> I may be more ignorant than most, but it was not until 10grade HS that I put two and two together. That being I thought Christmas was "present day"  and not CHRIST-mas. Then again, I never went to church.  Though my parents dont believe in any of that non-sense nor did they ever state about their beliefs, which is probably why I am so clueless on religion. I will say, I wanted to believe when I was little 8-13yrs since ship just going black when you die just scared the ship out of me. Though during that time and past, my pops was a boozer and took everything out on me, so my free time away from that mess was in my bed. During that time in bed I would pray. I didnt know how to pray but I wished for god’s help to make things stop. 2years down the road, nothing has changed, just felt like an idiot to ask for assistance from a ghost. It was me and only me that stepped up and stood my ground with both hands in a fist challenging 220lbs vs my 70 despite getting tossed seconds later. So to sum things up, no influence on religion, gave it a shot and it failed. Long story short, Present Day is coming up soon!



  LOL at "ship".

Great testimony brother.  Welcome to the forum.


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## davidstaples (Nov 30, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> What you fail to realize is the point that if you celebrate Christmas you are acknowledging the fact that Christ is who he was and is.  People gave gifts to Him.  We exchange gifts.
> 
> It is in fact 2010 Anno Domini.  Look it up.  I guess I cant be worried if you dont believe.  You float around here and you have read enough to have seen the Gospel.  Your blood isnt on my hands.



What about people who celebrate X-Mas?


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## pnome (Nov 30, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> What about people who celebrate X-Mas?



That special time of year when we celebrate the enlightenment of the Chosen One, David Duchovny (pbuh).


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## stringmusic (Nov 30, 2010)

TheSnail said:


> I may be more ignorant than most, but it was not until 10grade HS that I put two and two together. That being I thought Christmas was "present day"  and not CHRIST-mas. Then again, I never went to church.  Though my parents dont believe in any of that non-sense nor did they ever state about their beliefs, which is probably why I am so clueless on religion. I will say, I wanted to believe when I was little 8-13yrs since ship just going black when you die just scared the ship out of me. Though during that time and past, my pops was a boozer and took everything out on me, so my free time away from that mess was in my bed. During that time in bed I would pray. I didnt know how to pray but I wished for god’s help to make things stop. 2years down the road, nothing has changed, just felt like an idiot to ask for assistance from a ghost. It was me and only me that stepped up and stood my ground with both hands in a fist challenging 220lbs vs my 70 despite getting tossed seconds later. So to sum things up, no influence on religion, gave it a shot and it failed. Long story short, Present Day is coming up soon!



God is not a magic genie, I dont know why you didnt get the help you thought you needed. Maybe you should give God another look from a different perspective.


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## Achilles Return (Nov 30, 2010)

I celebrate the secular side of christmas with my family and friends. There really isn't conflict for me. Considering the lack of concrete evidence that jesus ever even existed, I don't see why there would be.


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## stringmusic (Nov 30, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> I celebrate the secular side of christmas with my family and friends. There really isn't conflict for me. Considering the lack of concrete evidence that jesus ever even existed, I don't see why there would be.




Where do you come up with this stuff?


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## Dixie Dawg (Dec 2, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> What you fail to realize is the point that if you celebrate Christmas you are acknowledging the fact that Christ is who he was and is.  People gave gifts to Him.  We exchange gifts.



So if you give your kid an Easter basket does that mean you are acknowledging that the Easter bunny is who he was and is?     Do you even know why "your" holiday is called Easter in the first place??  Or why it has to do with rabbits and eggs?  Or do you think somehow those traditions are in your NT too?  



crbrumbelow said:


> Sure it does.  Its the first several paragraphs of the article.
> 
> Remember what God said.  "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".  Mithras, wicca, buddah, hindu, muslim, none of them mean anything to me.




That's pretty much how I feel about your god.  How you can dismiss the other deities and yet believe in the one you do is beyond me.  I suppose it's like anything else bought or sold.... Christianity just had better marketing. 

But my point really wasn't that you should believe in any other god.  My point was that the worship of Mithras was around long BEFORE Jesus, and he had 12 disciples, was born on Dec. 25, died and rose up 3 days later, etc.  So your Jesus isn't anything new or special, and celebrating Dec. 25 as his birthday isn't out of the ordinary either.  It's no different than any of the other pagan gods who were celebrated on that date.   

Observing Dec. 25 as a day to give gifts to friends and family does not mean anyone accepts or acknowledges Jesus. I have more faith in Kris Kringle.


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## ambush80 (Dec 2, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> So if you give your kid an Easter basket does that mean you are acknowledging that the Easter bunny is who he was and is?     Do you even know why "your" holiday is called Easter in the first place??  Or why it has to do with rabbits and eggs?  Or do you think somehow those traditions are in your NT too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ever see those copper bracelets with the two balls on the ends?  People swear that they help your balance, keep you regular and make you hit a golf ball 400 yards.  I saw Newt Gingrich on the History Channel last night and he had a great quote speaking on why people tend to latch onto superstitions: " People don't want to believe that the world is huge, random and uncaring." Sad for them.


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## Dixie Dawg (Dec 3, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Ever see those copper bracelets with the two balls on the ends?  People swear that they help your balance, keep you regular and make you hit a golf ball 400 yards.  I saw Newt Gingrich on the History Channel last night and he had a great quote speaking on why people tend to latch onto superstitions: " People don't want to believe that the world is huge, random and uncaring." Sad for them.




Don't get me started... I fell for the whole 'proof' thing on those hologram bracelets at the Buckarama    Nothing but trickery in their 'proof'... but luckily I was only out $30 and not a lifetime of deceit.


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## Sterlo58 (Dec 3, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> Where do you come up with this stuff?



I wonder the same thing everytime you post stringmusic.


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## elfiii (Dec 3, 2010)

Sweet baby Jesus! Now I know why I don't come in here.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 3, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> I celebrate the secular side of christmas with my family and friends. There really isn't conflict for me. Considering the lack of concrete evidence that jesus ever even existed, I don't see why there would be.



I wonder if you are really paying attention. There is not much doubt among scholars if Jesus existed. His divinity is however questioned.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 3, 2010)

Let's sound it out people --- Christ - mas ---. Your secular cover was invented by the retailers to sell you stuff you don't need. We don't have Zuesmas, or Thormas, or Mohammadmas. If hallmark had their way, we probably would.


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## Dixie Dawg (Dec 3, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> Let's sound it out people --- Christ - mas ---. Your secular cover was invented by the retailers to sell you stuff you don't need. We don't have Zuesmas, or Thormas, or Mohammadmas. If hallmark had their way, we probably would.



That's the point many have been trying to make on here... there USED to be holidays celebrated for other religions on Dec. 25.  Christianity 'adopted' that date for their own to appeal to those who celebrated holidays on that date already.  Like I said before.... marketing was better for Christianity, which is why it's still around more prominently instead of followers of Zeus.  We can thank Constantine.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 3, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> That's the point many have been trying to make on here... there USED to be holidays celebrated for other religions on Dec. 25.  Christianity 'adopted' that date for their own to appeal to those who celebrated holidays on that date already.  Like I said before.... marketing was better for Christianity, which is why it's still around more prominently instead of followers of Zeus.  We can thank Constantine.



So why not Constantinemas? The Christians picked the date to hijack other religions?

Verizon's marketing ain't that good. Sound it out now, Christ - mas.  It is very plain.


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## TTom (Dec 4, 2010)

Yes Ted the history is well documented that Pope Gregory 1 planned specifically that putting Christ's Mass (note catholic mass) would make the conversion of the pagans in northern Europe easier.


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## Thor827 (Dec 4, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> Let's sound it out people --- Christ - mas ---. Your secular cover was invented by the retailers to sell you stuff you don't need. We don't have Zuesmas, or Thormas, or Mohammadmas. If hallmark had their way, we probably would.



You're right. But on the other hand, we DO have "EASTER", which is the northern European spring fertility festival. The church invented a clever christian back story to get Pagans to accept the church. It's even named after Ostara, a fertility goddess! If you let your kids hunt eggs (fertility symbol) or eat chocolate bunnies (yep,you guessed it) then you are making offerings to a pagan Goddess!


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## Thor827 (Dec 4, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> That's the point many have been trying to make on here... there USED to be holidays celebrated for other religions on Dec. 25.  Christianity 'adopted' that date for their own to appeal to those who celebrated holidays on that date already.  Like I said before.... marketing was better for Christianity, which is why it's still around more prominently instead of followers of Zeus.  We can thank Constantine.



It wasn't just the date, it was most of the practices that were adopted. Think about this: Why do we give presents? I've heard the logic that it's because the wise men gave Christ gifts, but I have a question. If you give someone a gift to commemorate this, are you saying that they're divine as well? It seems more likely that the Yule custom was adopted to make the conversion more appealing to northern Pagans and never went away.

As far as marketing, you guys may be right. The original missionaries were about as subtle as a hammer though. Their marketing was similar to the marketing used by Muhammed Atta and his buddies on Sept. 11th.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 4, 2010)

Thor827 said:


> You're right. But on the other hand, we DO have "EASTER", which is the northern European spring fertility festival. The church invented a clever christian back story to get Pagans to accept the church. It's even named after Ostara, a fertility goddess! If you let your kids hunt eggs (fertility symbol) or eat chocolate bunnies (yep,you guessed it) then you are making offerings to a pagan Goddess!



I agree, the Easter Bunny is the devil.  We celebrate the Ressurection.


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## Dixie Dawg (Dec 4, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> So why not Constantinemas? The Christians picked the date to hijack other religions?





TTom said:


> Yes Ted the history is well documented that Pope Gregory 1 planned specifically that putting Christ's Mass (note catholic mass) would make the conversion of the pagans in northern Europe easier.



What Tom said.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 4, 2010)

TTom said:


> Yes Ted the history is well documented that Pope Gregory 1 planned specifically that putting Christ's Mass (note catholic mass) would make the conversion of the pagans in northern Europe easier.



I believe you are mistaken. Pope Gregory 1st became Pope in 590 A.D.. Pope Julius 1st declared December 25th to be the official day of Christmas celebration around 340 A.D. in the time of Constatine's rule.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 4, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> What Tom said.



Careful who you jump on board with! They might not have proof!


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## TTom (Dec 5, 2010)

I may have confused the Gregory 1 policy which did in fact set many christian holidays on previously existing pagan holidays, and  attributed the setting of Christmas at the same time.

More than happy to be set on the path to find the correct names to hold responsible for the shifts.

So Julius 1 was the correct person setting Christmas to December 25 coopting a pagan holiday popular already.)

"The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival."

source http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2000/dec08.html

Not difficult to get the name confused when the resources talk about Gregory setting forth the policy of co-opting holidays and practices, and that Julius set Christmas for the same expedient reason.


Pope Gregory the First

As a result of their efforts to wipe out "pagan" holidays, such as Samhain, the Christians succeeded in effecting major transformations in it. In 601 A.D. Pope Gregory the First issued a now famous edict to his missionaries concerning the native beliefs and customs of the peoples he hoped to convert. Rather than try to obliterate native peoples' customs and beliefs, the pope instructed his missionaries to use them: if a group of people worshipped a tree, rather than cut it down, he advised them to consecrate it to Christ and allow its continued worship.

In terms of spreading Christianity, this was a brilliant concept and it became a basic approach used in Catholic missionary work. Church holy days were purposely set to coincide with native holy days. Christmas, for instance, was assigned the arbitrary date of December 25th because it corresponded with the mid-winter celebration of many peoples. Likewise, St. John's Day was set on the summer solstice.

It's paragraphs like the one quoted above that make such a mistaken attribution easy to make. 

You asked:

 "The Christians picked the date to hijack other religions?"

Gregory 1 had a part of that history with the famous policy for missionaries cited above, Julius 1 had an earlier part with Christmas's date also cited above.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 5, 2010)

TTom said:


> I may have confused the Gregory 1 policy which did in fact set many christian holidays on previously existing pagan holidays, and  attributed the setting of Christmas at the same time.
> 
> More than happy to be set on the path to find the correct names to hold responsible for the shifts.
> 
> ...



You are still calling donkeys oranges and comparing them to pineapples.


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## Achilles Return (Dec 6, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> I wonder if you are really paying attention. There is not much doubt among scholars if Jesus existed. His divinity is however questioned.



Feel free to find the evidence pointing to the contrary. I have looked and remain unconvinced. The jesus of the gospels seems far more of a legend than an actual person.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 6, 2010)

I would challenge anyone to disprove his existance.


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## stringmusic (Dec 6, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> Feel free to find the evidence pointing to the contrary. I have looked and remain unconvinced. The jesus of the gospels seems far more of a legend than an actual person.



You can find just about anything your looking for on the internet, especially with preconceptions.


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## pnome (Dec 6, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I would challenge anyone to disprove his existance.



I'll go one further.  

I'll put money on it.  No one is ever going to be able to prove that Jesus did not exist.  It can not be done.

What, I think, Achilles is getting at here is that he doesn't think there is enough evidence out there to prove that Jesus did exist.  Which is a slightly different position.  

I'll disagree with him here though.  There is enough evidence.  Because the existence of a man named Jesus who lived in ancient Judea and taught morality, is not something extraordinary at all.  In the same manner I might believe that a man named Socrates lived in ancient Greece and taught philosophy.  

It is the claim that Jesus is the son of the almighty creator of the universe that deserves further scrutiny.


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## TTom (Dec 6, 2010)

Ted I would say you are in denial of the actions of the church (generic but the catholic church in this case) that reflect poorly on it.

Gregory 1 is documented to have purt forth that policy to assimilate the pagan holiday traditions as well as the holidays in some cases overlay a christian meaning as a means to co-opt the pagan religion and eventually extinguish it.

Call it an apple orange kiwi, it would be considered a genocidal act for any group today.

Also documented Julius set the date of Christmas for the same base reason to co-opt the preexisting pagan holiday. Slightly less obnoxious because it was more to avoid conflict and was in a way a means to hide the celebration in plain sight.

Dodge duck twist spin all you like Ted but you still cannot and have not actually addressed the base idea. you have tried everything in the book to avoid it in fact.

Christian Holidays and holiday traditions are rife with pagan influence not because the pagans are trying to do anything, but rather because the Christian policies from Julius 1 to Gregory 1 and beyond were designed to extinguish the pagan practices by co-opting them. To make conversions easier was a central reason given in both cases. So maybe as different as a Granny Smith and a Red Delicious but still apples to apples.


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## Bitteroot (Dec 13, 2010)

Hmmm... lets see. I'm a Christian but don't celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ.... so am I a pagan since I don't believe the religious aspect of Christmas?


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## stringmusic (Dec 13, 2010)

Bitteroot said:


> Hmmm... lets see. I'm a Christian but don't celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ.... so am I a pagan since I don't believe the religious aspect of Christmas?



Why dont you celebrate it as the birth of Christ?


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## davidstaples (Dec 13, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> Why dont you celebrate it as the birth of Christ?



Just a guess, but probably because Jesus wasn't born December 25th.  Most historians place it some time in August.  It'd be like celebrating your birthday 4 months late every year.


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## Bitteroot (Dec 13, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> Why dont you celebrate it as the birth of Christ?



I can't find any biblical authorization for any man made/or implemented celebration concerning matters of the church, other than the assembling of like minded christians on the first day of the week. And actually we are told not to keep with the "traditions of men" concerning religion. I fully acknowledge that it happened and that it was miraculous. But had God wanted us to celebrate it as such.. there would be no question of it's religious implication, nor the date and time of which it should be acknowedged. JMHO...


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## Speakingstone (Dec 13, 2010)

I believe Jesus is our Lord savior and died on the cross so we all have hope of eternal life. I also believe CHRISTMAS is not a religious holiday. If it were a religious holiday with the all knowing of God he would have told us to observe Dec 25. Its a man made holiday that has no religious or bibical historical meaning. I celebrate, as the Bible tells us to, Jesus death and resurrection ever first day if the week by taking the Lords supper . Just as no can prove there wasn't a Jesus you can not prove 12/25 is a religiou holiday it a man made holiday alway has been and always will be.  Merry Christmas to all! Enjoy you children and family.


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## ted_BSR (Dec 16, 2010)

TTom said:


> Ted I would say you are in denial of the actions of the church (generic but the catholic church in this case) that reflect poorly on it.
> 
> Gregory 1 is documented to have purt forth that policy to assimilate the pagan holiday traditions as well as the holidays in some cases overlay a christian meaning as a means to co-opt the pagan religion and eventually extinguish it.
> 
> ...





I know all about the church, and it ain't about the church, and I am not Catholic either. I stand here naked in front of all (I apologize if that makes you uncomfortable), and open to anyone's ridicule. You can celebrate it on July 4th for all I care, but the Son of God was incarnated here on this earth to sacrifice himself for our sins.  I cannot prove it, and would not pretend to be able to do so. Ice the cake however you like, but the bottom line is that *I believe *in the deity and sacrifice of Christ for every human to have a chance at redemption is real and true. I hope every last one recieves it. God Bless us all.


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## mtnwoman (Dec 19, 2010)

Dixie Dawg said:


> I would have to disagree. MOST Christians who know anything about their religion admit that they don't know exactly when Jesus was born/conceived, and that, in fact, given the clues from the NT, it wouldn't even be in December at all.
> 
> I celebrate Dec. 25 the same reason the first Christians did... which is because that's when everyone else celebrates the holidays
> 
> Happy Christmahanukkwanzica!



Amen!!!!

Around december 22 is the winter solstice which is the shortest day of the year as in I'm sending you white light, etc.  Then the "light" starts coming back and the days are longer, more light. Jesus says even a few thousand or so years ago that He is the LIGHT of the world. I think that is related somehow, not exactly sure though, just that it all happens at around the same time.

I also don't know nor care when Jesus was born, the important thing is that He was born, born to die for my sins.

Hope your holidays are filled with peace and joy my friend, however you celebrate them.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 21, 2010)

mtnwoman said:


> I also don't know nor care when Jesus was born, the important thing is that He was born, born to die for my sins.


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## ambush80 (Dec 21, 2010)

mtnwoman said:


> Amen!!!!
> 
> Around december 22 is the winter solstice which is the shortest day of the year as in I'm sending you white light, etc.  Then the "light" starts coming back and the days are longer, more light. Jesus says even a few thousand or so years ago that He is the LIGHT of the world. I think that is related somehow, not exactly sure though, just that it all happens at around the same time.
> 
> ...





VisionCasting said:


>





And you know this how regarding the portion highlighted in blue)?  Please remember: this section is for Apologetics. A definition of apologetics for those who may not know:

apol·o·get·ics
noun pl but singular or pl in constr \-tiks\
Definition of APOLOGETICS
1
: systematic argumentative discourse in defense (as of a doctrine)
2
: a branch of theology devoted to the defense of the divine origin and authority of Christianity


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## atlashunter (Dec 30, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Do you REALLY want to know why Christmas is celebrated on the 25th of December?






crbrumbelow said:


> I *REALLY*don't care why it is celebrated on Dec. 25.  I do know there are several reasons why and it all centers around CHRIST.  So why do you celebrate Christmas if you dont believe?



 Typical!


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## atlashunter (Dec 30, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> God is not a magic genie, I dont know why you didnt get the help you thought you needed. Maybe you should give God another look from a different perspective.



In other words, it's your fault that the prayer to the magic genie didn't work.


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## VisionCasting (Dec 31, 2010)

Doesn't  suffice for apologetics?  

If not, let me summarise it thusly - someone walks on water and returns from the dead, I tend to just go with what they said.  




ambush80 said:


> And you know this how regarding the portion highlighted in blue)?  Please remember: this section is for Apologetics. A definition of apologetics for those who may not know:
> 
> apol·o·get·ics
> noun pl but singular or pl in constr \-tiks\
> ...


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## ambush80 (Dec 31, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> Doesn't  suffice for apologetics?
> 
> If not, let me summarise it thusly - someone walks on water and returns from the dead, I tend to just go with what they said.



David Blaine?  Chris Angel?  Houdini? 

I can pull my thumb off.


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## rifleroom (Jan 3, 2011)

elfiii said:


> Sweet baby Jesus! Now I know why I don't come in here.



ditto!


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## dawg2 (Jan 3, 2011)

holy cow...


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