# 2022 Seasons/Limits



## scottyd917 (Jul 22, 2021)




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## Turkeytider (Jul 22, 2021)

scottyd917 said:


> View attachment 1092367


Well, if not universally applauded, certainly should be no surprise. Appears to be applicable to ALL lands, not just WMAs. If you`re going to alter a season/limits, IMHO that makes more sense


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## phillip (Jul 22, 2021)

This is good move in my opinion to get the population up . I wouldn’t have a problem taking a week off the end of season . Enforce the baiting law more and a bounty on coyote. Just my opinion


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## Gut_Pile (Jul 22, 2021)

Most public will start April 9th, with some quota's not starting until the 16th


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## antharper (Jul 22, 2021)

Is what it is ! Thanks


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## HD28 (Jul 22, 2021)




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## Sixes (Jul 22, 2021)

IF this works, how will we know which part helped. Seems to me the logical way would have been to shorted the season OR change the limit for 3-5 years and if need be add the other reduction part.


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## jbird1 (Jul 22, 2021)

I'd take a 1 bird limit if we could keep the March opener.


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## Turkeytider (Jul 22, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> Most public will start April 9th, with some quota's not starting until the 16th


Oh. If that’s the case I stand corrected. The 9th would be a significantly later start IMO.


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## Buckman18 (Jul 22, 2021)

I predict the new dates and limit will net a 0% impact on the state turkey population, good or bad.


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## XIronheadX (Jul 22, 2021)

I noticed Mississippi capped the # of hunters. Basically no non residents the first 14 days because the pressure had doubled.

At least they addressed the root of the early season complaints which were public. And pressure.


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## Buford_Dawg (Jul 22, 2021)

At this point, I am open to anything that will get the population headed back in the right direction.  It is sickening to see how far it has fallen in the last 10 years.


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## Hoosier06 (Jul 22, 2021)

Another state hitting the easy button. Wonder what's the plan if this fails, still burn WMAs in April? They should give a 3rd statewide turkey tag to anyone who brings in 10 predators.


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## lampern (Jul 22, 2021)

I don't think reducing the limits will do much. 

Date changes might help though.


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## antharper (Jul 22, 2021)

I think the turkey population will rebound and the biologist will look like geniuses ! And I think the main cause will be predator control . Seems to me more and more people and big clubs are really starting to manage the predators .


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## Tadder (Jul 22, 2021)

State wide April 2. 1 gobbler a day 2 limit. I'm good with that. Hope this helps the birds rebound soon. next 2 r 3 yrs.


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## Tadder (Jul 22, 2021)

antharper said:


> I think the turkey population will rebound and the biologist will look like geniuses ! And I think the main cause will be predator control . Seems to me more and more people and big clubs are really starting to manage the predators .


I'm with ya there and they need too figure out how too do that on the public lands also. Maybe have some type of predator control season in feb. and try given extra pts for your quotes hunt for participating at a public land hunt.


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## sportsman94 (Jul 23, 2021)

Wish they would make trapping season year round with just a commercial license. Or at least provide a spring season. I cant justify an ADC license, but would set some traps in/around turkey season if I knew I could legally make a difference on the coons/possums/etc.


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## Kwaksmoka (Jul 26, 2021)

This is crap, I hunt on the coast and our birds are always ahead of the rest of the state. I've seen poults the last couple weeks of the season on numerous occasions. Birds are breeding ahead of the season already in our area, the last 3 weeks to month of the season slows down.


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## Gut_Pile (Jul 26, 2021)

Kwaksmoka said:


> This is crap, I hunt on the coast and our birds are always ahead of the rest of the state. I've seen poults the last couple weeks of the season on numerous occasions. Birds are breeding ahead of the season already in our area, the last 3 weeks to month of the season slows down.



Should be on fire by the opener


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## Turkeytider (Jul 27, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> I predict the new dates and limit will net a 0% impact on the state turkey population, good or bad.


You could very well be correct. Just curious. Upon what is your prediction based?


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## Buckman18 (Jul 27, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> You could very well be correct. Just curious. Upon what is your prediction based?



Well, I hunt both in the Piedmont and the mountains. Mostly the mountains.

In the mountains I hunt there are tens of 1000's of public land acres that NEVER see a hunter. Hunter harvest is not the problem in the mountains.

In the Piedmont,  I hunt a 1350 acre deer lease and im the only turkey hunter on the club. Ive not killed a gobbler on it in 3 years. By choice, ive called in several for my daughter who couldn't close the deal. None, ie ZERO of the surrounding properties have any turkey hunters at all and I also have permission to hunt them. Oh about 3k acres to myself. Turkeys have declined in the last 10 years but we still have them. Hunter harvest is OBVIOUSLY not an issue there either.

Poult recruitment from egg to adult is the problem. I predict this theory about hens not getting bred will soon be proven false. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.


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## HD28 (Jul 27, 2021)

My view on it. 
They are trying to do something! 
Some things can be controlled and some can't, but hopefully these things that can be will help. Doing nothing will certainly not help! I am sure there will still be those that will over harvest and even hunt early though, so......


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## Turkeytider (Jul 27, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Well, I hunt both in the Piedmont and the mountains. Mostly the mountains.
> 
> In the mountains I hunt there are tens of 1000's of public land acres that NEVER see a hunter. Hunter harvest is not the problem in the mountains.
> 
> ...


Interesting observations. I’m personally in the camp that it may be a multi-faceted problem. Everything from predators to agricultural practices to weather, etc. , all conspiring. It would be interesting to see if there are any commonalities in those southeastern states that have experienced a decline. If there are states ( North Carolina? Florida?) that have not experienced such pronounced declines, can differences be identified?


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## Gut_Pile (Jul 27, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Interesting observations. I’m personally in the camp that it may be a multi-faceted problem. Everything from predators to agricultural practices to weather, etc. , all conspiring. It would be interesting to see if there are any commonalities in those southeastern states that have experienced a decline. If there are states ( North Carolina? Florida?) that have not experienced such pronounced declines, can differences be identified?



It is a multi-faceted problem. Many biologist have pointed out there there is no one solution. That being said, the state can only control seasons and limits (for the most part). They can't make someone not cut hardwoods. They can't make a landowner burn. They can't make a landowner trap. They can't stop someone from putting in a subdivision where an ag field used to be. 

Florida's seasons are split by region of the state. NC doesn't start until usually around April 10th and is only open 3 weeks.


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## Buckman18 (Jul 27, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Interesting observations. I’m personally in the camp that it may be a multi-faceted problem. Everything from predators to agricultural practices to weather, etc. , all conspiring. It would be interesting to see if there are any commonalities in those southeastern states that have experienced a decline. If there are states ( North Carolina? Florida?) that have not experienced such pronounced declines, can differences be identified?



Good questions. I 'get' the theory about the changing habitat in the Piedmont with all the tree farming there, but not in the mountains. The habitat you see today is exactly the same as the habitat in 1990 which is in large part: Very mature timber interspersed with laurel/rhodo thickets and almost zero early successional growth. By many accounts excellent turkey habitat


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## antharper (Jul 27, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Good questions. I 'get' the theory about the changing habitat in the Piedmont with all the tree farming there, but not in the mountains. The habitat you see today is exactly the same as the habitat in 1990 which is in large part: Very mature timber interspersed with laurel/rhodo thickets and almost zero early successional growth. By many accounts excellent turkey habitat


I’ve made a few trips up in your area the past couple years and my first thought was this place has got to be full of turkeys . Never seen one but did find some scratching on one little ridge .


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## kmckinnie (Jul 27, 2021)

The gobblers around here did a good job hatching and raising poults. Been seeing them everywhere!


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## Turkeytider (Jul 28, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> It is a multi-faceted problem. Many biologist have pointed out there there is no one solution. That being said, the state can only control seasons and limits (for the most part). They can't make someone not cut hardwoods. They can't make a landowner burn. They can't make a landowner trap. They can't stop someone from putting in a subdivision where an ag field used to be.
> 
> Florida's seasons are split by region of the state. NC doesn't start until usually around April 10th and is only open 3 weeks.


Absolutely correct in what the state can control. On private lands, that is. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would think that the WMAs have the potential to be giant laboratories.


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## Turkeytider (Jul 28, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Well, I hunt both in the Piedmont and the mountains. Mostly the mountains.
> 
> In the mountains I hunt there are tens of 1000's of public land acres that NEVER see a hunter. Hunter harvest is not the problem in the mountains.
> 
> ...


So Buckman, what’s your thoughts? Predators? Something in the environment? Much deer bait?


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## mallardsx2 (Jul 28, 2021)

I wish they would have decreased the limit to 1 gobbler per season and made the season open April 9th and close May 7th.

Do that for about 5 years.  That would have made me happy. But beggars cant be choosers.


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## XIronheadX (Jul 28, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> I wish they would have decreased the limit to 1 gobbler per season and made the season open April 9th and close May 7th.
> 
> Do that for about 5 years.  That would have made me happy. But beggars cant be choosers.



Yeah they can. Just to make sure you help out. You go this year between those dates and make sure you kill 0. You balance out the the guy that kills 2.


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## mallardsx2 (Jul 28, 2021)

As per usual, you come over the top with a ridiculous statement....but I have come to expect it from you and others on this forum regarding turkeys. Its obvious that we will never agree, but we are not comparing apples to apples so there is that.

Fact is, I didn't kill a bird this year, nor did my wife, or anyone else in my family.
After 25 years of hunting this is the first year I did not kill a turkey in the spring season. I dont feel bad about it.


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## sea trout (Jul 28, 2021)

I'm going to Fl this spring to hunt so I still get to start in March!!


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## Buckman18 (Jul 28, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> As per usual, you come over the top with a ridiculous statement....but I have come to expect it from you and others on this forum regarding turkeys. Its obvious that we will never agree, but we are not comparing apples to apples so there is that.
> 
> Fact is, I didn't kill a bird this year, nor did my wife, or anyone else in my family.
> After 25 years of hunting this is the first year I did not kill a turkey in the spring season. I dont feel bad about it.



I can't speak to your true intentions but I read that as a very rude response to a man who, unlike you, contributes a lot to the dialog on this and other forums and who is a genuine pleasure to converse with. Conversely, and with all due respect, you mindlessly whine and complain to the point that I honestly thought you was a woman until I looked at your avatar pic.


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## DRBugman85 (Jul 28, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> The gobblers around here did a good job hatching and raising poults. Been seeing them everywhere!


I've seen more poults this year than in the last 5 years around here also, this DATE & LIMITS  is hogwash.We had poults by May 1st,the gobblers are breeding the 1st of March way down in DIXIE.


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## lampern (Jul 28, 2021)

> If there are states ( North Carolina? Florida?) that have not experienced such pronounced declines, can differences be identified?



NC has had pronounced declines in some counties and not in others

NC didn't finish restocking turkeys until 2004


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## kmckinnie (Jul 28, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> I've seen more poults this year than in the last 5 years around here also, this DATE & LIMITS  is hogwash.We had poults by May 1st,the gobblers are breeding the 1st of March way down in DIXIE.


This morning I seen fresh hatched poults. They looked like little marbled. So 28 days ago she started setting. She had about 10. So 1 month earlier she was breed. Guess in the moth of June. Someone be needs to tell that gobbler he is only fertile in March and April. Maybe May some.


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## XIronheadX (Jul 29, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> As per usual, you come over the top with a ridiculous statement....but I have come to expect it from you and others on this forum regarding turkeys. Its obvious that we will never agree, but we are not comparing apples to apples so there is that.
> 
> Fact is, I didn't kill a bird this year, nor did my wife, or anyone else in my family.
> After 25 years of hunting this is the first year I did not kill a turkey in the spring season. I dont feel bad about it.


Nothing ridiculous about it. Straight fact. I haven't worried with carrying a weapon out there in 5, to make sure my family does kill one. I don't need another fan clogging my walls or my freezer. What I need is the chance to call one in, and enjoy it with family or alone. So, I work on little things to give turkeys a better chance(non stop complaining doesn't enable that) Every time I think "I have a turkey problem", the cameras tell me otherwise. 

Where too many hunters trod across the land, shooting up the woods, busting through the flocks, and running hens off the nest,,things won't change. Not even if they hang Butterballs from tree limbs.

They should have limited pressure on some public, and especially limiting non residents running south for early season opportunity, like Mississippi did. Us privateers cut our own limits long ago. We don't bust early season flocks. We take inventory then instead. I've enjoyed all the post season tom sightings and the 30 or so different larger poults I've seen.

I'm just glad the turkeys returned the last week to their pristine home. I got tired of driving that extra mile and a half  to the new clearcut they displayed and bred on. They are hard to hear and no fun to hunt in the open. 

Time to head out and move some cameras around and do some more turkey investigation.


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## buckpasser (Jul 31, 2021)

This thread has some passion in it, as it should.  I appreciate those here that think for themselves.  I listen to podcasts every week while on the road and in the tractor cab.  I listen to endless hours of input from wildlife biologists and have gained lots of great info from it. The one thing that makes you pound your head into the wall is the lack of common sense displayed by many of these folks.  For example, I listened to one last week about supplemental feeding. The guy spent five years and lots of money to conclude that coons and possums are the primary recipient of supplemental feed stations.  Well duh, if you dump feed into a trough feeder or spin feeder it happens. Meanwhile, I’m putting out dozens of tons annually through boss buck feeders and the critters rarely ever appear on camera!

My point is, the changes are definitely just “to be doing something”.  I like the daily limit, but if I wait to start hunting on that start date I’ll be in the minority in my neighborhood.  These guys start about March 1st.  The worst thing is that it won’t do a darn thing for population increase and failed in the experimental area.  Too bad.


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## mallardsx2 (Jul 31, 2021)

You need to start turning people in who are breaking laws….


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## buckpasser (Jul 31, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> You need to start turning people in who are breaking laws….



We don’t have judges who care down here, and if they do “care” the fine isn’t really scaring anyone too bad. Good advice though.


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## mallardsx2 (Aug 1, 2021)

Maybe take out an add in the local newspaper shedding light on stage situation? 
More publicity would force them to deal with things I would think.


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## antharper (Aug 1, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> This thread has some passion in it, as it should.  I appreciate those here that think for themselves.  I listen to podcasts every week while on the road and in the tractor cab.  I listen to endless hours of input from wildlife biologists and have gained lots of great info from it. The one thing that makes you pound your head into the wall is the lack of common sense displayed by many of these folks.  For example, I listened to one last week about supplemental feeding. The guy spent five years and lots of money to conclude that coons and possums are the primary recipient of supplemental feed stations.  Well duh, if you dump feed into a trough feeder or spin feeder it happens. Meanwhile, I’m putting out dozens of tons annually through boss buck feeders and the critters rarely ever appear on camera!
> 
> My point is, the changes are definitely just “to be doing something”.  I like the daily limit, but if I wait to start hunting on that start date I’ll be in the minority in my neighborhood.  These guys start about March 1st.  The worst thing is that it won’t do a darn thing for population increase and failed in the experimental area.  Too bad.


 People have been killing them for years as soon as they start gobbling good . And limit ?


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## kmckinnie (Aug 1, 2021)

Just drive to a field and had 12 gobblers in it.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 2, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> This thread has some passion in it, as it should.  I appreciate those here that think for themselves.  I listen to podcasts every week while on the road and in the tractor cab.  I listen to endless hours of input from wildlife biologists and have gained lots of great info from it. The one thing that makes you pound your head into the wall is the lack of common sense displayed by many of these folks.  For example, I listened to one last week about supplemental feeding. The guy spent five years and lots of money to conclude that coons and possums are the primary recipient of supplemental feed stations.  Well duh, if you dump feed into a trough feeder or spin feeder it happens. Meanwhile, I’m putting out dozens of tons annually through boss buck feeders and the critters rarely ever appear on camera!
> 
> My point is, the changes are definitely just “to be doing something”.  I like the daily limit, but if I wait to start hunting on that start date I’ll be in the minority in my neighborhood.  These guys start about March 1st.  The worst thing is that it won’t do a darn thing for population increase and failed in the experimental area.  Too bad.



Yes Buck, and I would strongly suspect that your neighbors pay little, if any attention, to any other game regulations either. Why stop there? Maybe even ANY laws in general that inconvenience them in the slightest way?


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## XIronheadX (Aug 2, 2021)

The only thing the change helped is the outlaws. They benefit 100% from it. The law abiding citizen may have to bring the whole diseased corrupt temple down on their heads.


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## cowhornedspike (Aug 2, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Yes Buck, and I would strongly suspect that your neighbors pay little, if any attention, to any other game regulations either. Why stop there? Maybe even ANY laws in general that inconvenience them in the slightest way?



I've been known to straddle the yellow line in a two lane road before...end even turn without my signal most of the time...


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## Turkeytider (Aug 2, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> I've been known to straddle the yellow line in a two lane road before...end even turn without my signal most of the time...


Sure, no one leads a perfect, transgression free life. I know I haven’t. Then again, I’ve never knowingly , and repeatedly, violated the law in general, and game laws in particular. What Buckpasser was describing was an act of overt selfishness on the part of his neighbors. “ I’m going to get mine and I don’t give care about you , the law, or the resource “. If that becomes the predominant attitude, we might as well hang it up as a society. We’ll have far bigger problems than just no turkeys.


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## XIronheadX (Aug 2, 2021)

Had 3 different groups of poults on 2 cell cameras at the same moment in time 200 yards apart. To go along with the 18 or so I have seen quite a few times on another a mile and a half away. Then I realize outside of the short distance those cameras detect, there are a few thousand acres. How many poults are out there I can't see? I think the turkeys will be fine. Even when they don't light on gun barrels.


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## buckpasser (Aug 3, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> Had 3 different groups of poults on 2 cell cameras at the same moment in time 200 yards apart. To go along with the 18 or so I have seen quite a few times on another a mile and a half away. Then I realize outside of the short distance those cameras detect, there are a few thousand acres. How many poults are out there I can't see? I think the turkeys will be fine. Even when they don't light on gun barrels.



See, the new laws and the turkey doc’s solution are already working. You’re welcome.


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## buckpasser (Aug 3, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> Maybe take out an add in the local newspaper shedding light on stage situation?
> More publicity would force them to deal with things I would think.



Have you ever looked at game violations vs penalties of the convicted in GA?  There was a guy down here that poached multiple big bucks off of Greenwood plantation (allowed no hunting at the time). DNR caught on, staked him out, tried to catch him and he got away. They then called in a GSP chopper with thermal. He still evaded them and made it home by foot hours and miles later. One warden was injured chasing him at the beginning of the pursuit. I think they fined him like $1200 for all that...

It’s probably cheaper to just poach than do it right in some cases.  I don’t condone any of that, but that’s what leads to a society of game violators down here.  These season date changes suck and are the result of squeaky wheels like yourself.  They are also founded on one man’s theory that didn’t even work on the experimental location. All the while turkeys already appear to be trending back up (as they do on their own).  The positive is, maybe we’ll come away with less turkey hunters after this period of lower population.


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## buckpasser (Aug 3, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Sure, no one leads a perfect, transgression free life. I know I haven’t. Then again, I’ve never knowingly , and repeatedly, violated the law in general, and game laws in particular. What Buckpasser was describing was an act of overt selfishness on the part of his neighbors. “ I’m going to get mine and I don’t give care about you , the law, or the resource “. If that becomes the predominant attitude, we might as well hang it up as a society. We’ll have far bigger problems than just no turkeys.



I can’t speak to the reasoning of outlaws and their minds, but I will give them this.  The turkey activity has been at a fevered pitch here long before the old opening day.  N FL season is usually already in and we sit and wait. Meanwhile, on old opening day it’s like the dead of winter in N GA. It’s not really fair that we never got a crack at them here until much later in the breeding process. Now, our already “late” opening day is pushed back even further. It won’t be accepted by any of the outlaws and maybe a few of the ones that were waiting.  Maybe if they’d zoned it?  Maybe if they had proof it works?  Stupid move IMO.


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## XIronheadX (Aug 3, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> See, the new laws and the turkey doc’s solution are already working. You’re welcome.


Lol. The out of staters still have it made. Blow through here early season, grab them a couple, and leave us working for the lazy complainers.


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## mallardsx2 (Aug 3, 2021)

IMHO Big clubs in south GA are what created a bunch of the monsters in the first place.

The stories I have heard about guys in south GA shooting multiple bucks per season baffles me. Most of those "good old boys" are now "aging out" but I'm telling you I have heard some doozie stories over the years.

Sorry your still having to deal with the nonsense down there!

If it were up to me if a person was convicted of poaching they would be financially ruined at a minimum....."Hit and sunk". I have 0 tolerance for poaching.

I just hope the turkey changes that are made are going to make a difference for all of us. I seen a few hens in Lincoln county that had poults this spring but I wouldn't say that there were a lot of poults.


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## sea trout (Aug 3, 2021)

Me personally, as far as hunting laws go. I like to take pics of success and show off to my friends and family. I like to impress them. But 1st and foremost I want to challenge and impress myself. If illegal activity would take place for me to have a successful kill then I would feel guilty and wouldn't have impressed myself.
I wish all would follow simple rules set so that we can hunt, gather and prosper in a society but know all will not partake. So let's do the best we can.


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## kmckinnie (Aug 3, 2021)

I just hope to hear a gobble this spring.


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## LTFDretired (Aug 3, 2021)

I hope to find a club I can afford. The one I had near Dallas, Ga. that got sold off for. MacMansion development. Willing to travel to any club in GA, thanks


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## sea trout (Aug 3, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> I just hope to hear a gobble this spring.


You'll hear all about it that's for sure....


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## kmckinnie (Aug 3, 2021)

sea trout said:


> You'll hear all about it that's for sure....


About what.


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## Buckman18 (Aug 3, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> So Buckman, what’s your thoughts? Predators? Something in the environment? Much deer bait?



I feel like we are in a cycle of being predator heavy taking its toll on eggs and poults.

Nobody coon hunts anymore up here, and when this is compounded with all the deer feeding we have an extremely healthy coon population now. I dont have the numbers, but it sure does seem like we have exponentially more predatory birds flying around than we did 30 years ago? Bears and hogs have multiplied up here in the past 30 years, and I just don't see either passing on a nest or young poults. We have many more bobcats today because fur prices are down and no one traps. Im not sure how many turkeys the coyotes capture, but we do have many more of them now than in decades past.

In my estimation, hunting pressure from people is LESS today than 2 decades ago. I almost NEVER see another hunter on a mountain wma or cnf. I do realize there are WMA'S in the Piedmont that get heavy pressure. 

Just some observations from a middle aged and crazy mountain man.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 4, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> I feel like we are in a cycle of being predator heavy taking its toll on eggs and poults.
> 
> Nobody coon hunts anymore up here, and when this is compounded with all the deer feeding we have an extremely healthy coon population now. I dont have the numbers, but it sure does seem like we have exponentially more predatory birds flying around than we did 30 years ago? Bears and hogs have multiplied up here in the past 30 years, and I just don't see either passing on a nest or young poults. We have many more bobcats today because fur prices are down and no one traps. Im not sure how many turkeys the coyotes capture, but we do have many more of them now than in decades past.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir, very interesting. Coons, while looking cute, are extremely efficient and aggressive predators when it comes to nest predation. Mike Chamberlain`s done a lot of research on predation. He states that while raccoons may not actually " hunt " turkey nests, they`re not likely to pass one up if they come upon it. With so many in the woods, the chances increase regarding nest predation. As for coyotes, research has indicated that they most certainly can and do predate turkeys. Research also indicates that the turkey does not constitute a major part of the coyote diet. They are most assuredly a threat to fawns. Bobcats are another story when it comes to predation on turkeys, both poults and adults. With the exception of Great Horned Owls, which are an adult turkey predator, I haven`t seen any research on the significance of hawks, particularly Red Tails, when it comes to turkey predation. I know that posters here have reported hawks attacking decoys. An adult turkey would be a pretty big chore for a Red Tail, I would think. Small mammals and rodents are their main diets. Of course, EVERYTHING eats poults!


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## Nicodemus (Aug 4, 2021)

Crows and oak snakes can do a lot of damage. Once an oak snake finds a nest, it`ll keep coming back till it gets em all, and one big enough to swallow an egg can and will catch a biddy too.


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## Buckman18 (Aug 4, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Thank you sir, very interesting. Coons, while looking cute, are extremely efficient and aggressive predators when it comes to nest predation. Mike Chamberlain`s done a lot of research on predation. He states that while raccoons may not actually " hunt " turkey nests, they`re not likely to pass one up if they come upon it. With so many in the woods, the chances increase regarding nest predation. As for coyotes, research has indicated that they most certainly can and do predate turkeys. Research also indicates that the turkey does not constitute a major part of the coyote diet. They are most assuredly a threat to fawns. Bobcats are another story when it comes to predation on turkeys, both poults and adults. With the exception of Great Horned Owls, which are an adult turkey predator, I haven`t seen any research on the significance of hawks, particularly Red Tails, when it comes to turkey predation. I know that posters here have reported hawks attacking decoys. An adult turkey would be a pretty big chore for a Red Tail, I would think. Small mammals and rodents are their main diets. Of course, EVERYTHING eats poults!



Id like to see a valid, well executed study that monitors turkeys from egg to poult to the first birthday. Cameras over nest, GPS on poults, performed over a wide geographic range over several years. 

If I had my way, the study would include an area where the predators were effectively controlled or eliminated. 

And for kicks and giggles, let's monitor the hens to see who didn't get bred.

My hypothesis is the results would be abundantly clear.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 4, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Crows and oak snakes can do a lot of damage. Once an oak snake finds a nest, it`ll keep coming back till it gets em all, and one big enough to swallow an egg can and will catch a biddy too.


No question both are predators, I would imagine snakes in particular. It ain’t easy being a turkey!


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## antharper (Aug 4, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Id like to see a valid, well executed study that monitors turkeys from egg to poult to the first birthday. Cameras over nest, GPS on poults, performed over a wide geographic range over several years.
> 
> If I had my way, the study would include an area where the predators were effectively controlled or eliminated.
> 
> ...


Amen , that should be easier than the other study that was done !


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## Gut_Pile (Aug 4, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Id like to see a valid, well executed study that monitors turkeys from egg to poult to the first birthday. Cameras over nest, GPS on poults, performed over a wide geographic range over several years.
> 
> If I had my way, the study would include an area where the predators were effectively controlled or eliminated.
> 
> ...



That would be awesome, but I believe with todays technology it is very hard, if not impossible, to do. 

The GPS's they put on turkeys currently are the size or even bigger than a new born poult. And leg bands are too big to put on a bird until the fall when it is 6 months old or so. 

On the positive side, they are following lots of hens and study both the ones that are bred and the ones that are not. And they study the movements of hens with successful clutches, and hens that fail.


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## cowhornedspike (Aug 4, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> That would be awesome, but I believe with todays technology it is very hard, if not impossible, to do.
> 
> The GPS's they put on turkeys currently are the size or even bigger than a new born poult. And leg bands are too big to put on a bird until the fall when it is 6 months old or so.
> 
> On the positive side, they are following lots of hens and study both the ones that are bred and the ones that are not. And they study the movements of hens with successful clutches, and hens that fail.



They make gps trackers for quail...


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## phillip (Aug 8, 2021)

We as turkey hunters can make a difference by only have a 1 gobbler limit instead of 2 and let the Jakes go . We all got to do our part and then some.my 2 cents more


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## buckpasser (Aug 8, 2021)

phillip said:


> We as turkey hunters can make a difference by only have a 1 gobbler limit instead of 2 and let the Jakes go . We all got to do our part and then some.my 2 cents more



I’m all on board with doing my part to take game while leaving some for others to enjoy. The one per day is a good change. Leaving all Jakes is a good idea too.  Just don’t expect a real population spike based on these actions.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 9, 2021)

phillip said:


> We as turkey hunters can make a difference by only have a 1 gobbler limit instead of 2 and let the Jakes go . We all got to do our part and then some.my 2 cents more


I already shoot one a season and have for the last three. No jakes. At my age I guess my reasons for being in the Spring woods have changed somewhat. Pulling the trigger doesn’t mean the same to me as when I was younger. Don’t know if it helps the population, but it’s something that I can do personally.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Aug 9, 2021)

I fully understand the intent and support it.  Declining turkey populations have been reported for the past 10 to 15 years and I have yet to read any scientifically conclusive report as to why.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 9, 2021)

Dudley Do-Wrong said:


> I fully understand the intent and support it.  Declining turkey populations have been reported for the past 10 to 15 years and I have yet to read any scientifically conclusive report as to why.



That`s because there`s been no conclusive evidence of a single cause. Most wildlife biologists believe that it`s a confluence of multiple factors, I believe. Things within our ( and the State`s ) control are limited to season dates, limits,  doing what we can regarding predator numbers, good land management ( IMHO maybe the single biggest positive impact we can make ).


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## antharper (Aug 9, 2021)

I still plan to kill my limit, I also plan to do more than most to help them .


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## buckpasser (Aug 9, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> That`s because there`s been no conclusive evidence of a single cause. Most wildlife biologists believe that it`s a confluence of multiple factors, I believe. Things within our ( and the State`s ) control are limited to season dates, limits,  doing what we can regarding predator numbers, good land management ( IMHO maybe the single biggest positive impact we can make ).



The date and limit change could be a great thing!  Oh, that would be for waterfowl, never mind.


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## buckpasser (Aug 9, 2021)

antharper said:


> I still plan to kill my limit, I also plan to do more than most to help them .



I don’t care how many I kill, but I’m with you on doing more than my part to help them.


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## XIronheadX (Aug 9, 2021)

I think I may start killing again too. lol. Doing work for some reason.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 9, 2021)

antharper said:


> I still plan to kill my limit, I also plan to do more than most to help them .



Sure, that`s a personal decision. As long as it`s within the law, no problems from me.


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## Nicodemus (Aug 9, 2021)

I`d love to see us go back to a Fall season on turkeys, like it used to be.


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## Throwback (Aug 9, 2021)

We used to not go more than a couple of days at most without seeing a Turkey on our farm. Most over ever seen at once was well over 60 at one time and most were hens in the fall. This was in the late 90’s.

This YEAR we have seen one Turkey. Well you could say we have seen three but I’m 98% sure it was the same gobbler three times.  It’s true that most of our problem in my immediate area is habitat related but I also saw the first brood of poults within a 10 minute drive of the farm this year for the first time in a couple of years


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## buckpasser (Aug 9, 2021)

Throwback said:


> We used to not go more than a couple of days at most without seeing a Turkey on our farm. Most over ever seen at once was well over 60 at one time and most were hens in the fall. This was in the late 90’s.
> 
> This YEAR we have seen one Turkey. Well you could say we have seen three but I’m 98% sure it was the same gobbler three times.  It’s true that most of our problem in my immediate area is habitat related but I also saw the first brood of poults within a 10 minute drive of the farm this year for the first time in a couple of years



Sorry to hear that on the major decline. My mind is blown with the number of poults around here this year.  Let’s hope it’s a sign of things to come!


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## Throwback (Aug 9, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Sorry to hear that on the major decline. My mind is blown with the number of poults around here this year.  Let’s hope it’s a sign of things to come!


Almost ALL of our neighbors decided to clear cut within about 3-5 years. One side was then sold for houses.   90% of our place is pasture so there’s not a lot we can do.


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## Turkeytider (Aug 10, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`d love to see us go back to a Fall season on turkeys, like it used to be.


In addition to a Spring season ?


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## Nicodemus (Aug 10, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> In addition to a Spring season ?




Nah.


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## goblr77 (Aug 12, 2021)

I don't mind the regulations other than the 1 per day rule. Some people are limited on hunting time and should have the choice to end their season if two birds come in at once. I think decoys being outlawed would help limit the harvest more than the regulations changes going into effect. I would've also like to seen a limit on the the amount of licenses sold. They could issue licenses to residents and a have a lottery for non-residents. Just my two cents.


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## Dupree (Aug 12, 2021)

goblr77 said:


> I don't mind the regulations other than the 1 per day rule. Some people are limited on hunting time and should have the choice to end their season if two birds come in at once. I think decoys being outlawed would help limit the harvest more than the regulations changes going into effect. I would've also like to seen a limit on the the amount of licenses sold. They could issue licenses to residents and a have a lottery for non-residents. Just my two cents.


I agree with all you said except the 1 per day. I’ve always been a fan of that, I can tell you it has saved many Alabama gobblers from being killed by me, although I rarely try to shoot more than one per set up these days.


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## big lazer (Jan 2, 2022)

If the population was in this much trouble then they should have closed the season completely for 3 years and let it rebound.


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## Timber1 (Jan 17, 2022)

Two bird limit is fine with me. Gonna make it hard for yall to catch up tho when I decide to quit hunting. Not too thrilled that I cant take both from my wma. Dont really like killing the corn fed birds on John's Mtn. Guess I will just hit Bama and Tenn. a little harder this year. Didnt kill my 3 Ga. birds til the last 8 days of the season last year. Glad they took the days off the front end.


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## oppthepop (Jan 25, 2022)

Lot's of good discussion here and passion filled. Here's my 2 cents - 
for the last four years I have killed two gobblers on opening morning on our farm in Meriwether county. Looks like the DNR just changed that recipe for me. It is what it is. We have a roaming flock of about 40 hens that never seems to diminish, even with the high number of coyotes, coons, snakes, owls, etc. but such is nature. I try to plant as much chufa as I do clover, feeding the turkeys like we do the deer. 
My own personal opinion is the reduction in numbers in some areas is due to springtime prescribed burns (we try to do in february before nesting), predation, and loss of habitat. But that's just my 2 cents, again. I saw where even Alabama has reduced the limit to 4 gobblers this year and redcued season length as well.
Time will tell, but I am pretty sure - EITHER WAY - this local flock of +- 40 hens will get bred again this spring, and from what I've seen over the years, about 10-12 pounlts will make it. 
My advice - 
1. trap or hunt predators if you like. We do, but not on a large scale
2. if you burn your pine forests, try to do so before the hends nest. Otherwise, you are burning up a lot of eggs.
3. Plant some chufa - I think you will be amazed.


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## spencer12 (Feb 1, 2022)

One of the arguments I’ve read is that killing a boss gobbler causes reproductive issues within the flock. I’ve also read that jakes are unable to successfully breed when this boss gobbler is eliminated. I’m not sure if this is relevant however I feel that it is. I raise heritage turkeys. I currently have 11 Narragansett turkeys. These turkeys were bred from wild turkeys and the original turkeys domesticated and brought to Europe many many years ago. A heritage turkey retains most of its wild abilities such as flying, naturally reproducing, foraging, etc. they are not the same as turkeys we buy in the supermarket.
This particular flock is 8 months old. I have two gobblers and nine hens. Artificial lighting causes them to breed earlier as they breed based on the amount of daylight (around 14 hrs which is springtime). Anyways in November, at 6 months old, they began laying and breeding. I found this odd but later learned leaving the night light on in their coup at night caused this. Anyways my gobblers began successfully breeding and hens began laying fertile eggs ( I know because I incubated them). The hens also don’t really care which gobbler breeds them although one is dominant and the other is subordinate. So the whole killing the boss gobbler thing messing the whole process up baffles me.
I say all that to say I don’t understand how a wild turkey Jake could not successfully breed a hen (they can), in the absence of a “mature” gobbler. As mine were breeding successfully at only 6 months.
Maybe completely unrelated but as a turkey hunter I found their behavior interesting. I hope the population rebounds and we make the necessary changes or take the correct steps to achieve this.


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## sea trout (Feb 2, 2022)

I believe all that observing knowledge is helpful spencer


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## Dupree (Feb 2, 2022)

spencer12 said:


> One of the arguments I’ve read is that killing a boss gobbler causes reproductive issues within the flock. I’ve also read that jakes are unable to successfully breed when this boss gobbler is eliminated. I’m not sure if this is relevant however I feel that it is. I raise heritage turkeys. I currently have 11 Narragansett turkeys. These turkeys were bred from wild turkeys and the original turkeys domesticated and brought to Europe many many years ago. A heritage turkey retains most of its wild abilities such as flying, naturally reproducing, foraging, etc. they are not the same as turkeys we buy in the supermarket.
> This particular flock is 8 months old. I have two gobblers and nine hens. Artificial lighting causes them to breed earlier as they breed based on the amount of daylight (around 14 hrs which is springtime). Anyways in November, at 6 months old, they began laying and breeding. I found this odd but later learned leaving the night light on in their coup at night caused this. Anyways my gobblers began successfully breeding and hens began laying fertile eggs ( I know because I incubated them). The hens also don’t really care which gobbler breeds them although one is dominant and the other is subordinate. So the whole killing the boss gobbler thing messing the whole process up baffles me.
> I say all that to say I don’t understand how a wild turkey Jake could not successfully breed a hen (they can), in the absence of a “mature” gobbler. As mine were breeding successfully at only 6 months.
> Maybe completely unrelated but as a turkey hunter I found their behavior interesting. I hope the population rebounds and we make the necessary changes or take the correct steps to achieve this.


Turkeys for Tomorrow has gotten with a few other groups and are doing a study in Alabama this spring. They are going to be collecting the testicles from  Male turkeys killed (from willing participants) and see if they are producing fertile sperm. They also want to know the conditions under which he was killed, and was he with hens, was he with other gobblers, was he gobbling, was he strutting, etc.


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## Fieldglass (Feb 2, 2022)

Dupree said:


> Turkeys for Tomorrow has gotten with a few other groups and are doing a study in Alabama this spring. They are going to be collecting the testicles from  Male turkeys killed (from willing participants) and see if they are producing fertile sperm. They also want to know the conditions under which he was killed, and was he with hens, was he with other gobblers, was he gobbling, was he strutting, etc.



Here is the link, easy to donate, its non-profit of course.

https://turkeysfortomorrow.org/new-turkey-research-projects-are-underway/

For many of us here the 25 bucks to become a partner is less than what we spend on gas for a morning hunt in April.


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## cowhornedspike (Feb 2, 2022)

Fieldglass said:


> Here is the link, easy to donate, its non-profit of course.
> 
> https://turkeysfortomorrow.org/new-turkey-research-projects-are-underway/
> 
> For many of us here the 25 bucks to become a partner is less than what we spend on gas for a morning hunt in April.



I will support TFT as long as they are doing new independent research and NOT just following along with the view that Mike Chamberlain is pushing.  His opinion (and the states buying wholesale into it) is the reason we lost the best part of our season this year...doubtful we will ever get it back.


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## Fieldglass (Feb 2, 2022)

cowhornedspike said:


> I will support TFT as long as they are doing new independent research and NOT just following along with the view that Mike Chamberlain is pushing.  His opinion (and the states buying wholesale into it) is the reason we lost the best part of our season this year...doubtful we will ever get it back.



Ditto my friend. From what I am seeing this is an entirely parallel project and frankly with the timing, I wonder if it didn't arise based on the Chamberlain agenda.

It will be neat to see their findings side by side, or both project leaders on the same podcast / interview etc 

I don't like how chamberlain's work avoided the late prescribed burns and other big timber / almighty dollar variables. I doubt these guys poke the bear either.


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