# Jesus had short hair and wore pants!



## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

Just wanted to point out that Jesus did not look like a hippie like everyone portrays him to be. 

“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” – Deuteronomy 22:5

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.” – 1 Corinthians 11:3, 4

“Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15


“And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:” – Exodus 28:42


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## ambush80 (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> Just wanted to point out that Jesus did not look like a hippie like everyone portrays him to be.



Stetson and Wranglers perhaps?


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Stetson and Wranglers perhaps?



Dont know the bible uses the word Breeches, Maybe they were Levis


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## Huntinfool (Jul 26, 2011)

Can I see the photograph you have?


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## grouper throat (Jul 26, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Can I see the photograph you have?


 x2. Pic please


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## gtparts (Jul 26, 2011)

Hair: Pomaded and parted down the middle.
Clothes: Two piece worsted wool with white button-down collar.
Shoes: Brogans


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.” – 1 Corinthians 11:3, 4

“Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15
“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” – Deuteronomy 22:5
"Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me." - Job 38:3
“And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:” – Exodus 28:42


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

The bible clearly states its wrong for men to have long hair and wrong for men to wear womens clothing (dresses) do you think Jesus would do somthin he says is wrong?:


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 26, 2011)

what ever makes you feel better about yourself. im sure He would also say he girl in your avatar, (dont know if thats your girlfriend or wife) or who it is, shouldn't be dressing so immodestly as to show her leg under those jeans.


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## ambush80 (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> Dont know the bible uses the word Breeches, Maybe they were Levis



What is breeches translated into Aramaic?


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## pbradley (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> Just wanted to point out that Jesus did not look like a hippie like everyone portrays him to be.
> 
> “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” – Deuteronomy 22:5
> 
> ...




Does it really matter whether Jesus wore a robe or Levis when He walked on the water or was feeding the 5,000?


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## Huntinfool (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> The bible clearly states its wrong for men to have long hair and wrong for men to wear womens clothing (dresses) do you think Jesus would do somthin he says is wrong?:



He didn't say any of those things.  Are there any red letters in those books you quoted?

Do you require the women in your church to wear head coverings?  That is also included in those passages you quoted.  You didn't address that.

Your take on Samson's story?


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> He didn't say any of those things.  Are there any red letters in those books you quoted?
> 
> Do you require the women in your church to wear head coverings?  That is also included in those passages you quoted.  You didn't address that.
> 
> Your take on Samson's story?



Do you believe all scripture in inspired by God or should we not read the stuff thats in black?


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## hummdaddy (Jul 26, 2011)

i thought he wore clothes made from hemp and hemp shoes ... does that mean he smoked the herb too?


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> He didn't say any of those things.  Are there any red letters in those books you quoted?
> 
> Do you require the women in your church to wear head coverings?  That is also included in those passages you quoted.  You didn't address that.
> 
> Your take on Samson's story?



and if you didnt know that verse is talking about hair.. their HAIR covers their head


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> i thought he wore clothes made from hemp and hemp shoes ... does that mean he smoked the herb too?



most people on this forum prob think he did


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## Huntinfool (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> Do you believe all scripture in inspired by God or should we not read the stuff thats in black?



Oh, it's all inspired.  I was just pointing out that Jesus did not actually say those things.  That's what you implied.


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## Huntinfool (Jul 26, 2011)

The Deut passage most definitely is not talking about hair.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> The Deut passage most definitely is not talking about hair.



yes it is


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## Jeffriesw (Jul 26, 2011)

Context is king.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” – Deuteronomy 22:5





Huntinfool said:


> The Deut passage most definitely is not talking about hair.





Gabassmaster said:


> yes it is



No it isn't.



Swamp Runner said:


> Context is king.



Something that so many can't understand.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Something that so many can't understand.



the one you quoted was about clothes


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 26, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Something that so many can't understand.



so this isnt talking about hair?
“Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15


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## dawg2 (Jul 26, 2011)




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## JFS (Jul 26, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Shoes: Brogans



Nah, would have to be Jesus sandals.


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## grizzlyblake (Jul 26, 2011)

Supposedly this is what Jesus looked like based on forensic reconstruction:


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## rjcruiser (Jul 26, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> The Deut passage most definitely is not talking about hair.





Gabassmaster said:


> yes it is





Gabassmaster said:


> the one you quoted was about clothes



So which is it?  Clothes or Hair?



Gabassmaster said:


> so this isnt talking about hair?
> “Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15



Of course it is.  The passage in question was Deut....not 1 Cor.

Also, the context of the passage of I Cor has a lot to say about the "long hair" described. Men trying to look like women and women trying to look like men is the issue at hand.  The city of Corinth was not the best place in that day.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 26, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> so this isnt talking about hair?
> “Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15



It's tough to argue against this verse unless you're a super-antilegalist, liberal thinking, new age Christian that can figure out a way to modernize it.


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## TTom (Jul 26, 2011)

Long relative to what?

Was shoulder length considered long at the time of Paul (Corinthians)
Or was past the ear considered long?
Longer than a crew cut too long?????

Because long today and long in 1960 are two very different standards and that is just a 40 year span. So lets have a length that is historically defensible rather than some vague reference to long with nothing to measure against.

As for robe versus other raiment, I think you have to study a bit more about culture geography and clothing.

Rome the tunic was considered a mans garment and a tunic is not pants, or breeches, BTW breaches and pants in historical context are leggings and a loin cloth not jeans, thus the reason it is called a pair of pants. In fact a tunic today is a dress and mostly reserved for women but circa 100 AD it was men only.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 26, 2011)

TTom said:


> Long relative to what?
> 
> Was shoulder length considered long at the time of Paul (Corinthians)
> Or was past the ear considered long?
> ...



Could you rephrase all that please.


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## middlebrooks69 (Jul 26, 2011)

well i dont think it matters wat he looked like i dont think the blind man tht he healed could tell the difference and also the bible says if u correct people u do it by well being not prove anybody wrong


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## TTom (Jul 26, 2011)

Ronnie T

Not sure how much simpler that question can be made.

Paul wrote the letter about 57 AD. 

The question is what length of hair was considered "too long" for a man in 57AD in Corinth?

Because that is the exact context that the statement must be examined first.

Long for a man in 2011 in the USA is not the same context as long for a man in 2011 in Jordan. 

Long for a man in 1787 USA is not the same as long for a man in 2011 USA either. 

Both time and location change the "standard" hair length of a culture.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 27, 2011)

If i walked in a church with hair down to my back and a dress on people would consider that wrong right? well how come everyone pictures Jesus that way??? My God does not look like a woman is all i gotta say


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## simpleman30 (Jul 27, 2011)

sounds like you're a lot more worried about what your God looks like than what He's done for you AND people that look differently than you do.  

i'm a Christian, but come on man.  get off your high horse.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 27, 2011)

simpleman30 said:


> sounds like you're a lot more worried about what your God looks like than what He's done for you AND people that look differently than you do.
> 
> i'm a Christian, but come on man.  get off your high horse.



no im tired of people saying Jesus christ looks like a hippie


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## Huntinfool (Jul 27, 2011)

Listen man.  There were no hippies in 33A.D.  Jesus wore what was appropriate for a man to wear back then and in that culture.  You don't know what he wore specifically and you don't know how long his hair was exactly.  Neither do I.  The difference is, I don't stinking care whether it was buzzed or shoulder length.  It doesn't change anything.

I would not imagine that there was a barber pole hanging on every street corner at that point.  In any case, he did not look like a hippie.  He looked like Jesus; son of the living God; savior of the world.  Whether he wore Wranglers or a Moo Moo is of no consequence.

Although I will say that your aversion to hippies and hatred of Christian rap (and I assume "contemporary worship) does reveal a good bit.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 27, 2011)

Toga Toga Toga Toga Toga Toga Toga.

Sorry...just couldn't resist. 

And Gabassmaster...toga's aren't dresses.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 27, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Listen man.  There were no hippies in 33A.D.  Jesus wore what was appropriate for a man to wear back then and in that culture.  You don't know what he wore specifically and you don't know how long his hair was exactly.  Neither do I.  The difference is, I don't stinking care whether it was buzzed or shoulder length.  It doesn't change anything.
> 
> I would not imagine that there was a barber pole hanging on every street corner at that point.  In any case, he did not look like a hippie.  He looked like Jesus; son of the living God; savior of the world.  Whether he wore Wranglers or a Moo Moo is of no consequence.
> 
> Although I will say that your aversion to hippies and hatred of Christian rap (and I assume "contemporary worship) does reveal a good bit.



1. I aint gotta problem with hippies, Im just saying esus; son of the living God; savior of the world didnt look like one.
2. I dont hate Christian rap because there is no such thing its an Oxy moron.


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## Huntinfool (Jul 27, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> 1. I aint gotta problem with hippies, Im just saying esus; son of the living God; savior of the world didnt look like one.
> 2. I dont hate Christian rap because there is no such thing its an Oxy moron.





Ok, let's dissect this a little.  

#1  You don't want Jesus to be associated with hippies.  The implication is that you don't like hippies.  If you did, then you wouldn't have an issue with him looking like one.  Is it the "sissy" look that you have an aversion to?  There's something that causes you to recoil against that look.  Tell me what it is...

#2  Tell me, specifically, why there is no such thing as Christian rap.  I assume that, when you say it's an oxymoron, you mean that rap cannot be Christian.  So I'll ask you one more time (hoping you'll answer this time), if I showed you "Old Rugged Cross" rapped, would it be "un-Christian" and the hymn would be "Christian"?


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## formula1 (Jul 27, 2011)

*Re:*

Pharisees are still walking the earth.  Amazing!

The Word without the Spirit is dead!


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 27, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Ok, let's dissect this a little.
> 
> #1  You don't want Jesus to be associated with hippies.  The implication is that you don't like hippies.  If you did, then you wouldn't have an issue with him looking like one.  Is it the "sissy" look that you have an aversion to?  There's something that causes you to recoil against that look.  Tell me what it is...
> 
> #2  Tell me, specifically, why there is no such thing as Christian rap.  I assume that, when you say it's an oxymoron, you mean that rap cannot be Christian.  So I'll ask you one more time (hoping you'll answer this time), if I showed you "Old Rugged Cross" rapped, would it be "un-Christian" and the hymn would be "Christian"?



#1 I dont have a problem with hippies, im just saying Jesus didnt look like one. If someone said Jesus was a woman and you said they werent and they pulled the whole do you have a problem with women line you would be like WOW which is what you are trying to do.
#2 read what formula1 wrote the word without spirit is DEAD ole rugged cross rapped is DEAD


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## Huntinfool (Jul 27, 2011)

> #2 read what formula1 wrote the word without spirit is DEAD ole rugged cross rapped is DEAD




Uhhhh.....I hate to break this to you man....I'm fairly certain he was talking to YOU!


So the words of "Old Rugged Cross" are only worship if they are sung to the original tune, correct?  So it's the music that makes it worship.  I got ya.  I didn't know that.

Can you back that up scripturally?

How about this.  Native africans...WAYYYYY back in the bush are converted by a missionary who was called and obeyed.  They begin to sing "Old Rugged Cross" while dancing and playing the only instruments they have....sticks to bang together and native drums.  

Not worship?


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 27, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Uhhhh.....I hate to break this to you man....I'm fairly certain he was talking to YOU!
> 
> 
> So the words of "Old Rugged Cross" are only worship if they are sung to the original tune, correct?  So it's the music that makes it worship.  I got ya.  I didn't know that.
> ...



Rapping is not singing Jesus wants us to SING


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## Huntinfool (Jul 27, 2011)




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## formula1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Gabassmaster;6159490#2 read what formula1 wrote the word without spirit is DEAD ole rugged cross rapped is DEAD[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Please don't add to my words what I did not say. Thanks!


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## TTom (Jul 27, 2011)

Art from the period of Jesus's life shows the standard MALE garments for the time and place were a tunic and a mantle. the modern Thawb that the Arabs wear is very similar to the artwork showing the typical garment of Jesus's time in Palestine.

Funny how the clothing that is suitable to a desert environment has changed mostly in style of decorations rather than actual design.

I agree he did not dress like a hippie, he dressed like a desert dwelling Semitic person.


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## tween_the_banks (Jul 27, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> Rapping is not singing Jesus wants us to SING


Rap, like collared shirts and crew cuts were not invented during those days to my understanding. So since rap is wrong in your eyes because of it greenness and lack of mention in the Bible, maybe you should reevaluated your fashion as well because I'm pretty sure if you were to go back in time and walk the streets in your current attire you'd be the mockery of the town, possibly stoned (especially if you interrupted one of the Man's freestyles)


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## dawg2 (Jul 27, 2011)

holy cowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


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## huntmore (Jul 27, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Pharisees are still walking the earth.  Amazing!
> 
> The Word without the Spirit is dead!



Tons of them are walking on this the earth. Lots of them on this site.


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## huntmore (Jul 27, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> holy cowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww



That is the most intelligent thing said on this thread yet!!!


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## huntmore (Jul 27, 2011)

Boxers or briefs


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## ryork (Jul 27, 2011)

I usually stick to posting in the Fishing and Outdoor Cafe Forums, but occasionally look in here.  I find some of these threads entertaining.  I don't mean any disrespect whatsoever to those having intelligent discussions by saying that. I am referring to posts such as the original in this thread.  I can assure you that not all Carroll County folks share this rediculous viewpoint.


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## Huntinfool (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you for piping up ryork....I was beginning to worry!


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## Whiteeagle (Jul 27, 2011)

Gabassmaster must have an old,old,old picture on his avatar if he is old enough to remember what Jesus looked like. Boy, not a bit of alzheimers either. Some ol codgers never get old. Another Dick Clark?


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## middlebrooks69 (Jul 27, 2011)

well all i got to say is i like khow gabassmaster knows wat jesus wants as a youth and bein christian i like some old hymns and i also went on a youth trip and there was a rap group there called PK ALL DAY which mean praise the king all day and if u dont think tht rap cant praise GOD then ur sayin some of the counrty hyms arnt either cause all it is a version of the song faster and a different beat and if u dont like go some where else dont gripe about it listen to ur stuff but ill let u know onething ur place on this earth as a christian is to spread the word from young to old even if u have to get out of ur confort zone and i beat tht 95% of teens dont wanna go to church because the music is for "old people". also Paul sat in prison in the poo and urine and praised  GOD did GOD think he was gross and wrong no he didnt and also he wrote half of the old testament in prison and rap can reach a lot more than u arguein sayin tht rap is wrong and GOD dont like it


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 27, 2011)

It doesn't matter to me if he wore dreadlocks and a kilt!! It doesn't change who he was and is.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 27, 2011)

I've said for many years that....  "If you quote a scripture and invite other Christians to read and comment on it, eventually you'll find a body of believers who'll claim that what that scripture says doesn't apply to them".
It's still true today.

As originally posted (Op).
I don't know what this thread originators motives were for beginning this thread, but here's the verses he provided.

“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” – Deuteronomy 22:5

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.” – 1 Corinthians 11:3, 4

“Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.” – 1 Corinthians 11:13-15


Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but I don't see anyway to skirt around what the natural appearance of man and woman should be.
I believe it was Ttom who said "what's nature has changed since the days of Paul".  Very lovingly I say, "that's a crock".  If anything has changed it's mankinds belief that he can do whatever he wants to do and God will tag along because God loves him and will let him do anything he wants to do.

Paul said:  It is not very manly for a man to parade around with hair the length of womens hair.  And it isn't very lady like for a female to parade around with a crew cut.
To do that means you've gone against the way God originally set as the differences in the outward appearance of men and women.


Clarke's Commentary on the Bible 
Doth not - nature - teach you, that, if a man have long hair - Nature certainly teaches us, by bestowing it, that it is proper for women to have long hair; and it is not so with men. The hair of the male rarely grows like that of a female, unless art is used, and even then it bears but a scanty proportion to the former. Hence it is truly womanish to have long hair, and it is a shame to the man who affects it.


*As for Jesus, I've seen the pictures of Him and he always has long hair.........  But based on these verses I'd be more inclined to think His hair was shorter than expected.

Not that it matters one ioda to me, but then, this is what the thread is about.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 27, 2011)

So Ronnie, does your wife wear shorts? What about pants?


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## Ronnie T (Jul 27, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> So Ronnie, does your wife wear shorts? What about pants?



Hey, get a grip bud.
Did I discuss clothes?
The argumentative attitude around here chaps my you know what sometimes.


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## polkhunt (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't know exaclty how the verse translates out in English but lets say it does say exactly that a man should not have long hair. What was and is Gods definition of long hair and what is ours? Do they match? Is it 3 inches 4,6,8,10,24 ? I don't really care how long his hair was? I also don't have knowledge of what was considered woman and man dress of that day either.  Also why we are on the subject I don't like it when pastors use 1Tim 2 to tell women they should not overly adorn their outward appearence but they are standing there in a suit and tie with a gold watch on. If you want to preach it, stand behind what you say by example.


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## The Foreigner (Jul 28, 2011)

*Aargghhh!*

Time to end this thread... surely ... please.

Let's talk about something that matters. And perhaps Ex 20:4 should come into this discussion.

But let's move on.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I've said for many years that....  "If you quote a scripture and invite other Christians to read and comment on it, eventually you'll find a body of believers who'll claim that what that scripture says doesn't apply to them".
> It's still true today.
> 
> As originally posted (Op).
> ...




thanks Ronnie you are rght thats all i was trying to say, I just know that the only reason people believe Jesus had long hair is because thats the way everyone paints him and you shouldnt believe a painting you should believe the bible right? I was just trying to show em but sometimes its like talking to a brown fence post trying to convince it that its white.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I believe it was Ttom who said "what's nature has changed since the days of Paul".  Very lovingly I say, "that's a crock".





Ronnie T said:


> Hey, get a grip bud.
> Did I discuss clothes?
> The argumentative attitude around here chaps my you know what sometimes.



Yes you did.  I've pulled the piece out of your thread that caused me to ask what I did.

You say that styles never change and that that argument is a bunch of baloney.  So I ask...does your wife wear shorts or pants?  If so, you're being hypocritical in saying that nature/style has never changed.  

And no...not being argumentative, I'm just having some friendly debate.

Lastly, I'll add.  I agree that men should not dress nor give the appearance of women and women should not dress nor give the appearance of men.  I've seen plenty of men with longer hair that look very manly and I've seen plenty of women with shorter hair that look very womanly.


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## Huntinfool (Jul 28, 2011)

> To do that means you've gone against the way God originally set as the differences in the outward appearance of men and women.



Just want to point out that God built men and women to have hair that grows.  I think you would be hard pressed to make the case that Adam had short hair in the garden.  Just a thought.


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## Nicodemus (Jul 28, 2011)

I don`t think my long hair will keep me out of Heaven.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t think my long hair will keep me out of Heaven.



Nic...just from looking at your avatar pic and the other pics that have been posted on the forum, you look pretty manly to me.

I don't think anyone looking at you would ever mistake you for a woman.


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## Nicodemus (Jul 28, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Nic...just from looking at your avatar pic and the other pics that have been posted on the forum, you look pretty manly to me.
> 
> I don't think anyone looking at you would ever mistake you for a woman.





That ain`t gonna happen.


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## Huntinfool (Jul 28, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t think my long hair will keep me out of Heaven.



Ladies and gents.....meet exhibit "A".


I'm with RJ on this one.  Ain't nothing feminine about ol' Nic....but I be the OP would say his hair is "hippie length".


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## Nicodemus (Jul 28, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Ladies and gents.....meet exhibit "A".
> 
> 
> I'm with RJ on this one.  Ain't nothing feminine about ol' Nic....but I be the OP would say his hair is "hippie length".





Although I lived through the height of the hippie era, I was too onery to ever be one. Just wasn`t one of those peace lovin` folks, I reckon. 

I would hazard a guess it is hippie length though. Before The Redhead took about 8 inches worth off about a month ago, it was 3/4s of the way down my back.  

I don`t worry much about my hair. I just hope my heart is in the right place.


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## TTom (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T sorry have to lovingly say you missed my point by miles and miles and your restatement of it is way off what I said.

I did not say what's nature (natural) has changed since Paul. Left natural (untouched) hair grows long on both men and women. If we go with what is natural then any uncut length is more natural than any cut length.

I said what was the standard length for a man's hair has changed since Paul's time, and it has changed based on the location that you examine as well. A glance at the 3rd and 43rd presidents of the United States illustrates my point well that standard/ accepted lengths change over time.

Your legalistic examination has left my question unanswered, and yes it was an honest question digging for anything defensible as the cut off point for when hair is too long on a man. As at least two other people have asked, 2 inches, 4 inches, 6 inches, 8 inches where is this biblical cut off where a man's hair is considered "long".

Not legalistic but using logic you could infer that Paul's standard for long would have been that of a Roman Jew from the time period. So examining first century artistic renditions of other men would maybe give an idea of what was common at Paul's time. 


Personally, I generally keep my head shaved bald, so I'm not debating this to try for some justification for my hair style. My forehead became a five head some nine years ago  and I decided it was more dignified to shave the head than to try some sort of comb over, and a Mohawk at my age would be just plain strange


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t think my long hair will keep me out of Heaven.



Not talking about what decisions you might have made concerning your hair.  Just covering what the Bible says is the natural state.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Nic...just from looking at your avatar pic and the other pics that have been posted on the forum, you look pretty manly to me.
> 
> I don't think anyone looking at you would ever mistake you for a woman.



I don't know now, I know a couple of women that live over on the creek that look a lot like Nic.  Even moreso.


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## Nicodemus (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I don't know now, I know a couple of women that live over on the creek that look a lot like Nic.  Even moreso.





They have a long droopin` mustache and a beard?


One thing I don`t do, is to judge a book by its cover.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I don't know now, I know a couple of women that live over on the creek that look a lot like Nic.  Even moreso.



Then I'd say those women need to re-evaluate their fashion style.

Really Ronnie, look at the picture in his avatar.  Cover the name, ask your wife...man or woman.  I doubt anyone would have trouble saying man.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Although I lived through the height of the hippie era, I was too onery to ever be one. Just wasn`t one of those peace lovin` folks, I reckon.
> 
> I would hazard a guess it is hippie length though. Before The Redhead took about 8 inches worth off about a month ago, it was 3/4s of the way down my back.
> 
> I don`t worry much about my hair. I just hope my heart is in the right place.



I believe you got it.  If God loves your heart, he's gonna love that hair of yours.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

TTom said:


> Ronnie T sorry have to lovingly say you missed my point by miles and miles and your restatement of it is way off what I said.
> 
> I did not say what's nature (natural) has changed since Paul. Left natural (untouched) hair grows long on both men and women. If we go with what is natural then any uncut length is more natural than any cut length.
> 
> ...



I wasn't being legalistic.  I was examining scripture and leaving opinion out of it.


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## tween_the_banks (Jul 28, 2011)

I imagine if someone were to try and mess with Nics hair they'd lose theirs and their scalp too


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## TTom (Jul 28, 2011)

And still the real question I asked goes unanswered.

Truth is Paul never specifies how long is too long for a man's hair. He leaves it vague (unspecified). 

So we have a choice to make, accept that long is not ever going to be specific, and look to the spirit of the passage as something like:
Keeping hair length that is culturally appropriate for your gender in your time and location.

Or we can take the legalistic path and try to infer a specific length that applies to all men in all cultures for all times.

My position is simple Jesus had hair and a beard that was longer than the current standard length in the US, but likely shorter than "hippie" length. All the art and history we have available about the standard length of hair and beard from non bibical sources indicates a length longer than is common today here in the USA, but not as long as the "hippie" length was the cultural norm for Jews in 1st Century Palestine.


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## stringmusic (Jul 28, 2011)

tween_the_banks said:


> I imagine if someone were to try and mess with Nics hair they'd lose theirs and their scalp too


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## stringmusic (Jul 28, 2011)

TTom said:


> And still the real question I asked goes unanswered.
> 
> Truth is Paul never specifies how long is too long for a man's hair. He leaves it vague (unspecified).
> 
> ...



 Great post


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

TTom said:


> And still the real question I asked goes unanswered.
> 
> Truth is Paul never specifies how long is too long for a man's hair. He leaves it vague (unspecified).
> 
> ...



TTom....you and I agree on this


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## StriperAddict (Jul 28, 2011)

God has a way of coming on the scene that really upsets the massess.  As to His appearance on earth, most of us, in the earthly sence, would turn away.  We'd be fools to admit otherwise.

Is. 53(emphasis added):

 <SUP class=versenum id=en-ASV-18714>*2*</SUP> For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.  <SUP class=versenum id=en-ASV-18715>*3*</SUP> He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not. 
--------------

I too often judge a brother for how he "looks" (to my shame), and by doing so send Christ's ministry away.  
Not sayin we should be w/o discernment, but God sees the heart, and that is what we need to do also.  (IMO)


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

TTom said:


> And still the real question I asked goes unanswered.
> 
> Truth is Paul never specifies how long is too long for a man's hair. He leaves it vague (unspecified).
> 
> ...



I agree and will take it a step further.
Anothere persons hair length is none of my business.  If a man wants long hair I believe they should have long hair.  It should not diaqualify a man from being a pastor or a deacon or a well respected Christian man.
There simply is no "doctrine of hear length".
If I want long hair I doubt I'll ask for anyone's permission....  Well, maybe the wife.


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 28, 2011)

StriperAddict said:


> God has a way of coming on the scene that really upsets the massess.  As to His appearance on earth, most of us, in the earthly sence, would turn away.  We'd be fools to admit otherwise.
> 
> Is. 53(emphasis added):
> 
> ...




I agree but the world look on the outside, how can a man with long hair preach and say not to have long hair, how can they say drinking is wrong when they drink? not saying anything about salvation but in the eyes of a lost man it could be the decision of him going to your church that night and possibly getting saved but he didnt only because he thought that person was a hypocrite.
(IMO)


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 28, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> I agree but the world look on the outside, how can a man with long hair preach and say not to have long hair, how can they say drinking is wrong when they drink? not saying anything about salvation but in the eyes of a lost man it could be the decision of him going to your church that night and possibly getting saved but he didnt only because he thought that person was a hypocrite.
> (IMO)



I think a more likely scenario of someone choosing to not go to church and get saved would be the direct result of being exposed to constant judgement, condescension, spiritual nitpicking, stereotyping, and condemnation from church members who are so closed-minded that it's a wonder their heads aren't shaped like an axe blade. If Jesus came to your church the same way he appeared when he was walking around Israel, you probably wouldn't let him in the door. For most of his ministry, he was  basically what we would refer to today as a homeless drifter with no visible means of support. I doubt if he had the opportunity to groom and spit-shine himself very often. What in the world does the length of someone's hair have to do with what kind of person they are, anyway? I've had hair halfway down my back, and I've had my head shaved off bald as an egg. I was the same person either way. Some of the most evil, purely self-serving, untrustworthy people I've ever known walk around every day with a hundred-dollar haircut and a fancy suit and tie. Some of the most honest, trustworthy people I've met have been long-haired, grubby-looking hippies that you wouldn't give the time of day to because you apparently never look beyond the surface when you're forming an opinion of someone, or simply have never learned to think for yourself and just repeat what you've been told. How many hippies have you actually known on a personal basis?


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I agree and will take it a step further.
> Anothere persons hair length is none of my business.  If a man wants long hair I believe they should have long hair.  It should not diaqualify a man from being a pastor or a deacon or a well respected Christian man.
> There simply is no "doctrine of hear length".
> If I want long hair I doubt I'll ask for anyone's permission....  Well, maybe the wife.







Ronnie T said:


> I don't know now, I know a couple of women that live over on the creek that look a lot like Nic.  Even moreso.



You say you know women that look a lot like nic implying that his long hair makes him look like a woman.



Ronnie T said:


> I've said for many years that....  "If you quote a scripture and invite other Christians to read and comment on it, eventually you'll find a body of believers who'll claim that what that scripture says doesn't apply to them".
> It's still true today.
> 
> As originally posted (Op).
> ...



This is a whole post on how we are not to look like women.


How can you say those last two things, and then post something about it being fine for men/pastors to have long hair?

Sorry, just looks like your talking out of both sides on this issue. 

Am I the only one that is thinking this?


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 28, 2011)

NCHillbilly said:


> I think a more likely scenario of someone choosing to not go to church and get saved would be the direct result of being exposed to constant judgement, condescension, spiritual nitpicking, stereotyping, and condemnation from church members who are so closed-minded that it's a wonder their heads aren't shaped like an axe blade. If Jesus came to your church the same way he appeared when he was walking around Israel, you probably wouldn't let him in the door. For most of his ministry, he was  basically what we would refer to today as a homeless drifter with no visible means of support. I doubt if he had the opportunity to groom and spit-shine himself very often. What in the world does the length of someone's hair have to do with what kind of person they are, anyway? I've had hair halfway down my back, and I've had my head shaved off bald as an egg. I was the same person either way. Some of the most evil, purely self-serving, untrustworthy people I've ever known walk around every day with a hundred-dollar haircut and a fancy suit and tie. Some of the most honest, trustworthy people I've met have been long-haired, grubby-looking hippies that you wouldn't give the time of day to because you apparently never look beyond the surface when you're forming an opinion of someone, or simply have never learned to think for yourself and just repeat what you've been told. How many hippies have you actually known on a personal basis?



people claim to be the same when they are drinking and gambling too


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> people claim to be the same when they are drinking and gambling too



Oh boy...here we go again.

Well...Jesus drank wine and the disciples cast lots.  Hmm...but if you do either of these....you're going to he1l


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 28, 2011)

Are we discussing Christians or Puritans?  It seems that these threads always come full circle to the same old tired doctrine that drives people away from Christianity to begin with.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> You say you know women that look a lot like nic implying that his long hair makes him look like a woman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No Rj, I 'll tell you what's obvious.  This week, if I say the sun is shining you'll probably disagree with anything I say.
The ladies near the creek that I'm talking about look like Nic because they are brute women.  Very manly.  They log for a living.  Cut trees down, drag and load onto a truck.  They drive the truck.
I wasn't feminizing Nic, I was doing quite the opposite.

My comments early in this thread talked about a couple of verses and what they were talking about.
Today I gave my opinion of hair length and whether anyone should consider it a Biblical issue today.
It's never been an issue for me and never will.

Hey, Rj, I say it's 4:16 in the central time zone.  What say you.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I've said for many years that....  "If you quote a scripture and invite other Christians to read and comment on it, eventually you'll find a body of believers who'll claim that what that scripture says doesn't apply to them".
> It's still true today.
> 
> As originally posted (Op).
> ...



HEY, RJ, Check out my last comment.
Do you see it?
"Not that it matters one ioda to me."


The sun set's to the west.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Are we discussing Christians or Puritans?  It seems that these threads always come full circle to the same old tired doctrine that drives people away from Christianity to begin with.




No.  I think we've all turned stupid in the last 3 days.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> No Rj, I 'll tell you what's obvious.  This week, if I say the sun is shining you'll probably disagree with anything I say.
> The ladies near the creek that I'm talking about look like Nic because they are brute women.  Very manly.  They log for a living.  Cut trees down, drag and load onto a truck.  They drive the truck.
> I wasn't feminizing Nic, I was doing quite the opposite.
> 
> ...




Yup...it's cloudy outside....and it's 5:20 in the EST.

Really Ronnie...I think we agree on most things.  I just think you got it wrong initially on this hair thing and on the rapper thing.  Seems to me that you're backtracking with your last statement....and I don't think I'm the only one who got that impression from your initial posts.  Thanks for clearing it up though.

The key with the scripture above is that men look like men and women look like women.  Styles change.  Fashion changes.  Society changes.  God's Word doesn't change.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> The sun set's to the west.



It rises in the east


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## Ronnie T (Jul 28, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Yup...it's cloudy outside....and it's 5:20 in the EST.
> 
> Really Ronnie...I think we agree on most things.  I just think you got it wrong initially on this hair thing and on the rapper thing.  Seems to me that you're backtracking with your last statement....and I don't think I'm the only one who got that impression from your initial posts.  Thanks for clearing it up though.
> 
> The key with the scripture above is that men look like men and women look like women.  Styles change.  Fashion changes.  Society changes.  God's Word doesn't change.



Again, I'll say, the hair never mattered to me one ioda.  Never.
I was merely talking about what a scripture said.
Trust me.
No back tracking.


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 28, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> people claim to be the same when they are drinking and gambling too



Yeah, I was probably dancing and playing rock music, smoking cigarettes and hanging around women who wore pants and no head coverings too. My soul is certainly doomed. It's gonna be awfully lonely in Heaven with you and the few people who go to your church being the only ones there and all.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 28, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> Again, I'll say, the hair never mattered to me one ioda.  Never.
> I was merely talking about what a scripture said.
> Trust me.
> No back tracking.



Then I misunderstood what you had posted.  I apologize for the misunderstanding.  I understood your position to be like Gabassmasters.  Please forgive me.


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## christianhunter (Jul 28, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> The bible clearly states its wrong for men to have long hair and wrong for men to wear womens clothing (dresses) do you think Jesus would do somthin he says is wrong?:



Did you ever read of Samson?
Or the Nazarene custom of not cutting their hair.The breeches were like undergarments,and he wore a robe.You wore a robe if you graduated High School or College.The things people come up with!


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## Gabassmaster (Jul 29, 2011)

NCHillbilly said:


> Yeah, I was probably dancing and playing rock music, smoking cigarettes and hanging around women who wore pants and no head coverings too. My soul is certainly doomed. It's gonna be awfully lonely in Heaven with you and the few people who go to your church being the only ones there and all.



therefore if any man be in christ old things passed away all things become new


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 29, 2011)

As to the length of his hair, possibly, but I have no doubt, him being a Tekton and traveling great distances that he wore both the garments of his trade, "pants" if you must, as well as the more open aired garments of travel, between jobs / points.

Here is an excellent read, that in the end makes a very pointed message to the short sightedness of many self proclaimed Christians of our modern day:

http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2122

"Some Christians are tempted to retreat to their religious  communities, ignoring secular trends altogether. But they alienate  nonbelievers and miss the opportunity to preach God?s message in a  culturally relevant way.* Isolation from culture fails to bring cultural  change*.


  Without modifying God?s message, we can communicate his truth in ways  that resonate with our secular culture.  And if we follow Jesus?  example in speaking the language of culture, we too can make a lasting  impact on the world.


       Do you use words and ideas that your culture understands as you communicate Jesus? message?"


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## mtnwoman (Jul 29, 2011)

So some of y'all wanna go back and live by the OT? Then women can't sit in church service with men, no more pork chops, or ham either. You gotta take your bestest lamb to slaughter for atonement for sin? Please don't pick out bits and pieces that people should live by unless you take the whole. Of course we live by some of it but that was mostly written law for the Jews, which they couldn't even follow, that's why they/we needed Jesus. We try to live by the 10 commandments, most of us can't.

Jesus dressed just like Mary Magdalene...which is the same thing bin laden wore. It was customs and clothing of the time and of the land. 

Besides I'm pretty sure God meant for men not to dress in drag and women not to dress up to look like a man. 

I wondered when I was in the 3rd grade and had to walk to school in the freezin' cold why I, being a girl, had to wear a dress that blew up over my head?? Gees I'm glad those legalistist days are gone. And the church had mercy on us woman like Jesus did 2000 yrs ago. And I can vote....yay me.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 29, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> So some of y'all wanna go back and live by the OT? Then women can't sit in church service with men, no more pork chops, or ham either. You gotta take your bestest lamb to slaughter for atonement for sin? Please don't pick out bits and pieces that people should live by unless you take the whole. Of course we live by some of it but that was mostly written law for the Jews, which they couldn't even follow, that's why they/we needed Jesus. We try to live by the 10 commandments, most of us can't.
> 
> Jesus dressed just like Mary Magdalene...which is the same thing bin laden wore. It was customs and clothing of the time and of the land.
> 
> ...



I love you Annie.


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## Mako22 (Jul 29, 2011)

Jesus did not have long hair and man's modern standards of hair style does not apply as God does not change! If your hair is below your collar then your a hippie and a rebel.


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## dawg2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> Jesus did not have long hair and man's modern standards of hair style does not apply as God does not change! If your hair is below your collar then your a hippie and a rebel.


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## Mako22 (Jul 29, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> So some of y'all wanna go back and live by the OT? Then women can't sit in church service with men, no more pork chops, or ham either. You gotta take your bestest lamb to slaughter for atonement for sin? Please don't pick out bits and pieces that people should live by unless you take the whole. Of course we live by some of it but that was mostly written law for the Jews, which they couldn't even follow, that's why they/we needed Jesus. We try to live by the 10 commandments, most of us can't.
> 
> Jesus dressed just like Mary Magdalene...which is the same thing bin laden wore. It was customs and clothing of the time and of the land.
> 
> ...



Should have worn a longer, heavier dress and it wouldn't have blown up over your head. Legalism has nothing to do with it as sin is still sin, the only question is how far are you willing to follow Jesus.


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## Mako22 (Jul 29, 2011)

dawg2 said:


>



No! You think?


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## dawg2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> No! You think?



Yes they did


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## mtnwoman (Jul 29, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> Should have worn a longer, heavier dress and it wouldn't have blown up over your head. Legalism has nothing to do with it as sin is still sin, the only question is how far are you willing to follow Jesus.



Well I would have worn a heavier dress (3rd grade)... except I didn't have the option of picking the material when my grandma made my dresses.  They were all alike, just different colors. I didn't have a job, nor an opinion I took what I got, we was po' and shoulda been glad to get what we got.....'splain how YOU dress in the cold weather, a Jesus robe and sandals or a "real" man's clothing.  

Are you saying that men can wear what they want and women can't? women in pants are sinners or are you just kiddin?


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## mtnwoman (Jul 29, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> Jesus did not have long hair and man's modern standards of hair style does not apply as God does not change! If your hair is below your collar then your a hippie and a rebel.



Then like I said before, we should be singing in Hebrew, God didn't write all His Hymns in Englay, ya know? God doesn't change, He said He would provide a sacrificial lamb for atonement and He did. I could go back to the OT and carry my best lamb, if I had one, to the alter and be atoned or I can accept Jesus as my scape goat and Lamb of God, and wear something practical like sweatpants when I gotta root around in my veggie garden.

How outlandish does that sound?


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## CAL (Jul 30, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I love you Annie.



Me too Annie!


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## The Foreigner (Jul 30, 2011)

How is it a thread like this, of limited spiritual value, generates so much interest? - 3 pages!! Wow.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 30, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> How is it a thread like this, of limited spiritual value, generates so much interest? - 3 pages!! Wow.



Don't it beat all!
That's the way it is, here in the spiritual forum.
Check the history.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 30, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> How is it a thread like this, of limited spiritual value, generates so much interest?



I say that about half the threads on here.  We should rename this place:

"The Limited Spiritual Value Forum"


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## The Foreigner (Jul 30, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I say that about half the threads on here.  We should rename this place:
> 
> "The Limited Spiritual Value Forum"



LOL. Very good sir!


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 30, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> How is it a thread like this, of limited spiritual value, generates so much interest? - 3 pages!! Wow.


It is the dog chasing it's tail syndrome. Those that are consumed with being the absolute sole authorities on everything biblical will continue to chase it until all others are bored of watching and eventually leave.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 30, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I say that about half the threads on here.  We should rename this place:
> 
> "The Limited Spiritual Value Forum"



Yep.


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## polkhunt (Jul 30, 2011)

Woodsman69 said:


> Jesus did not have long hair and man's modern standards of hair style does not apply as God does not change! If your hair is below your collar then your a hippie and a rebel.



I must have missed the scripture on how long God thinks your hair should be. I did not know he specified collar length hair. As I said in an earlier post nobody knows what God considers to be long hair.


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## JFS (Jul 30, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> How is it a thread like this, of limited spiritual value, generates so much interest



Looks to me like a classic failure to differentiate between the holy and the mundane in a book that clearly contains both.


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## ambush80 (Jul 30, 2011)

Either you're filled with the spirit like Gabassmaster or you're a waffler.  See how that works? If he was born in a ghetto of Saudi Arabia he might have a one way ticket to Los Angeles and and a bomb stitched into his belly.


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## alligood729 (Aug 1, 2011)

Ok.....I just remembered why I read here and never post....

And I won't be trying to cut Nic's hair ever....


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## southron (Aug 1, 2011)

more spirit is broken by arguing than meditating. allow people to rest on their own laurels as we all will know the truth one day. some will argue just to hear themselves speak. peace in Dixie brother.


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## Tim L (Aug 7, 2011)

I won't get into whether Jesus had long hair or wore pants but you did hit on something that is a common misconception.  Many pictures of Jesus imagine him as an almost efeminate looking frail guy with pale skin...............Jesus was a carpenter and worked outside in an arid desert like area; he wasn't pale....there were some trees and the people in that area at that time did have some wood, but mostly they used cut stone....Most houses were masonry; not wood....Jesus would have cut alot of stone in his life and would have been used to working with big slabs of stone....Common sense tells us he would have been a very stout man with big shoulders, chest, arms; strong forearms and hands. Somebody that could put a whuppin on you if he wanted....  
s


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## BT Charlie (Aug 8, 2011)

I remember before I accepted Christ sitting in church one day with my wife.  It was a little church and we were in the back. This older feller, who would become a great friend and role model over the years, was playing the piano and singing "Victory in Jesus." he was pretty much having to look over his shoulder at the congregation, like a bus driver would look back over his shoulder at passengers.  He looked to me like Elmer Fudd with 1950's style square eye glasses, black plastic frames.  He smiled and seemed like he was singing right to me.  It really opened up my heart and my eyes. I later told the pastor that Gordon's eyes reflected the heart of Jesus more than any portrait I'd ever seen, even the one on the wall in 
the sanctuary.  My hope is that our posts will take on the same character of expression, reflecting the heart of Christ in support of one another and in witness to those who seek Christ's mercy and redemption whether they know it or not.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 8, 2011)

BT Charlie said:


> I remember before I accepted Christ sitting in church one day with my wife.  It was a little church and we were in the back. This older feller, who would become a great friend and role model over the years, was playing the piano and singing "Victory in Jesus." he was pretty much having to look over his shoulder at the congregation, like a bus driver would look back over his shoulder at passengers.  He looked to me like Elmer Fudd with 1950's style square eye glasses, black plastic frames.  He smiled and seemed like he was singing right to me.  It really opened up my heart and my eyes. I later told the pastor that Gordon's eyes reflected the heart of Jesus more than any portrait I'd ever seen, even the one on the wall in
> the sanctuary.  My hope is that our posts will take on the same character of expression, reflecting the heart of Christ in support of one another and in witness to those who seek Christ's mercy and redemption whether they know it or not.



The primary purpose of this ministry here.
It is a ministry isn't it?
Thanks for reminding me.  Especially me.


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## BT Charlie (Aug 8, 2011)

Ronnie, you're the man! You've been a big encouragement to me this past week, and to others as well.  I really appreciate you and your work.  God bless.


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## mtnwoman (Aug 9, 2011)

BT Charlie said:


> I remember before I accepted Christ sitting in church one day with my wife.  It was a little church and we were in the back. This older feller, who would become a great friend and role model over the years, was playing the piano and singing "Victory in Jesus." he was pretty much having to look over his shoulder at the congregation, like a bus driver would look back over his shoulder at passengers.  He looked to me like Elmer Fudd with 1950's style square eye glasses, black plastic frames.  He smiled and seemed like he was singing right to me.  It really opened up my heart and my eyes. I later told the pastor that Gordon's eyes reflected the heart of Jesus more than any portrait I'd ever seen, even the one on the wall in
> the sanctuary.  My hope is that our posts will take on the same character of expression, reflecting the heart of Christ in support of one another and in witness to those who seek Christ's mercy and redemption whether they know it or not.



That is awesome!  Thanks for sharing, the Holy Spirit is moving.


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