# Trad Events and Compound/Crossbow Shooters



## Al33 (Jan 18, 2008)

I want to put this out here for an open, honest, non-offensive adult discussion. I want your feedback and expect nothing less than respectful responses to all concerned.

As traditional archery enthusiasts we seem to be naturally passionate about our sport and most of us, if not all, love sharing this passion with anyone who is interested. I am not sure if it is the sport itself that attracts opinionated and independent types or if opinionated and independent folks just like to keep things simple and traditional archery just fits their natures. In any event, it takes a good bit of practice to become proficient marksman with a trad bow and we are more often limited regarding distances for shots versus other bow shooters. Neither do we get too concerned about consistently putting six arrows inside a dot the size of a tennis ball at 25 yards. Heck, we are proud to get them in the kill zone at any given distance. 

With this in mind, we are sometimes perceived negatively as elitists, especially when one or more of us organize a “trad” hunt or event for trad shooters only. No one likes to feel excluded, I understand that, but my feelings are not going to be hurt if I am excluded from a specialized hunt, say for, primitive archers. I don’t even own a primitive bow but I certainly respect any and all that hunt with primitive gear. If I had a desire to do so I would get one or more of these fellows to point me in the right directions, get or make the tools necessary, THEN join them on a hunt.

Many traditional hunters welcome compound shooters on organized hunts just to introduce them to all the fun and camaraderie. No doubt you will see many examples of folks going the extra mile to help someone get started if you participate in a trad event because I see it every time I go to one. Most want to recruit for our sport and feel this is a great way to do it. It certainly IS a great way to introduce folks to our sport, no arguing that at all, however, it often does not remain true to the intents and purposes of the event, UNLESS recruitment IS the purpose and intent. Oftentimes someone will attempt to organize a traditional hunt or shoot just to make the event a traditional archery experience, nothing more and nothing less, and certainly with no intentions of offending anyone.  Unfortunately this is when “some” do get offended and the “elitists” label gets applied.

Speaking for myself here, I will hunt or shoot with anyone no matter their style of bow and always welcome folks to come shoot my trad bows if they indicate they may have a desire to try one. However, when I attend a hunt or event organized for trad shooters that’s what I want to see there and I don’t feel guilty about it. If that makes me an elitist in someone’s eyes then so be it, I can live with it. Perhaps my old age cynicism is showing here, not really sure, but I am putting it out here for feedback because I believe it needs to be openly discussed. We are, primarily speaking,  a "family" of hunters AND archers, not to mention Woodyites too, so that makes it even tougher when an event is exclusionary because the expectations of family may be a bit higher than normal. 

As a side note, I am not of the mindset that once you try traditional archery you are hooked for life. Yes, it IS fun, but I understand why many choose to shoot compounds and crossbows and even why some return to them after shooting trad for awhile. It is not for everyone that flings an arrow.

Thanks!


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## hogdgz (Jan 18, 2008)

AL I think you are exactly right. As ya'll know I have in the process of converting, but with everyones help it makes it alot funner and easier. I have been on 2 hunts with you guys (with my compound) and have enjoyed every minute of it. Everyone is very helpful and seems excited to have a newcomer in camp. Out of all the compound gatherings I have been to, none of the people there showed as much help and passion about there sport as much as you guys do. And I can see where some might get offended at a gathering of trad shooters when someone shows up with a wheelie bow or crossbow. In my oppinion you guys are the most honest and funnest guys to be around and I think that is what set the hook for me and tard archery. Ya'll will definietly be seeing more of me from know own (haha).


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## Apex Predator (Jan 18, 2008)

Well said Al, and I agree 100%!  I have to draw the line between compounds and crossbows though.  I consider them acceptable for true handicapped folks only in the archery season.  Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions!


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## Just BB (Jan 18, 2008)

Al, I don't think you are an elitist. I think you are someone that loves his chosen sport and wants to share it with others. I bring this up because of the word chosen. We who shoot traditional whether we switched to it or it has been the chosen form of archery from the beginning have done so because we made a choice to do so. That being said, I see nothing inappropriate with having a Traditional Only Shoot. Folks that shoot compounds and crossbows have made the choice that traditional is not for them. Why should they be offended by not being included in traditional shoot?


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## Nicodemus (Jan 18, 2008)

Al, I understand what you`re sayin, and I see no difference between that, and us not allowin` inlines at our traditional rifle shoots. 

I`ve never considered myself an elitest, just different from most folks.


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## Al33 (Jan 18, 2008)

I understand that the trad hunts/shoots offer a unique opportunity for someone who has never shot trad to come and shoot a variety of different trad bows, as well as opportunities to buy one, not to mention learning a lot in the process. This in itself is a great thing to afford anyone with a begginners interest in traditional archery. I guess in the long run it is all a compromise of what the hunt is supposed to be about versus what the sport is supposed to be about. Hard to separate the two sometimes unless it is specifically noted.

I would like to add that I am in no way offended by someone showing up with a compound bow at a shoot or hunt primarily for trad shooters. That is not the issue so much as trying to have a trad ONLY shoot or hunt and not being resented because it is exclusionary.


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## SOS (Jan 18, 2008)

My division would be between TBG Trad Shoots or hunts on private land, or a hunt on a public WMA.  Since hunt dates on public land are open to the public, I think we would be doing a disservice to our cause by fomenting a "trad" only mentality.  

When I tried my first recurve, I asked on-line if I could join a bunch of TBG'ers at Horse Creek, even though I wasn't yet comfortable with my recurve.  They welcomed me and helped and encouraged me while shooting my recurve during the lunch stump shooting sessions.  Gentlemen, that was only 4 years ago and now I'm hunting with a longbow of my own making.  Where do you think I would be if I was shunned at that hunt due to using my compound because I knew my skill level and wasn't comfortable hunting with trad yet?  I doubt I'd be an active member of TBG.  I'd probably still be putzing around the backyard, trying to decide if I was ready.  

I know folks get a little crazy over crossbows, but if our events are on public land during an archery season, we'd be fools not to encourage folks to join us using a legal weapon.  It is hard to introduce folks to the joy of trad if you don't invite them to the camfire and welcome them.  How else will they become exposed?  For the most part, you have to hook them one at a time.  Trust me, if traditional archery isn't for them, I don't think you'll have a flurry of return compound or x-bow shooters at the campfire year after year.  

On private land hunts and Traditional Shoots, by all means - no wheels allowed at TBG events.

The question is, do we want to stay to ourselves and hope traditional shooters luck into the group.  Or open ourselves up to bringing new members into the fold.  Lot of gray hair and pot bellies around the campfire.  Also, a lot of folks activity level rises and falls based on obligations.  You need new blood or the club will die.    JMHO.....


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## Al33 (Jan 18, 2008)

Very good points Steve but this is more about the event, not whether or not it takes place on public land. I differ with you on this qoute:


> Where do you think I would be if I was shunned at that hunt due to using my compound


It is not about shunning anyone but rather trying to avoid that perception. My whole point is; Why can't we have trad only hunts or events, even on public land, without coming across as being snobs in the process?

I am very happy you decided to do the trad thing because you are a hoot in camp. I believe we can still attract folks like you once were at trad events without compromising the true intent of the event. If the event is advertised or the hunt is specified as a trad only event no one should feel resentment OR guilt about it, IMO.


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## cardenuto14 (Jan 18, 2008)

I have been bowhunting for 5 years now and I also rifle hunt some. i can say with out a doubt that i would rather bowhunt than rifle hunt any day. I have always been interested in trad archery but i have never found anyone that shot trad that was open to letting me shoot their bow. Rifle hunting just seems too easy.

I  have been reading alot of the threds here lately and i can't believe how friendly everyone seems. i have read some of the threads in the bowhunting and deer hunting section and for the most part people are friendly but it seems to me that too many people are concerned about the size or score of the animal. I am so excited to try shooting trad not only because of the art form but also because of the people.

I haven't shot trad archery so this connection might not be right but i fly fish alot. I see trad archery to archery the same way  i see fly fishing to fishing. I think it is more about the art of the action of shooting or casting than the obtaining of the animal. If i wanted to catch alot of fish i would fish with bait. I say that fly fishing is an in efficient way to catch fish. But i love every minute of it.

Fly fisherman get hit with being elitists as well and i think some of them are. But i think the few ruin it for the rest. When a bunch of guys go fly fishing they don't expect someone to show up with their baitcasting rods. 

I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to have have a trad only hunt. I just think that if someone was offended by that they are assuming that they are not welcome. 

I guess that i would ask the question, Has anyone ever come to a hunt with a compound or crossbow and left offended because they weren't or felt they weren't welcome? 

People are afraid of what they don't know and i think that if someone showed up and was welcomed around the fire and allowed to shoot other's bows, they wouldn't leave offended. And if they do leave offended then it is on them not you.

Sorry this was long-

Josh


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## OconeeDan (Jan 18, 2008)

Great post, Al.  Thanks for your candidness, I think this discussion is constructive.
I encourage everyone who is making a transition (as most of us have), to work hard at it and leave the wheels at home as soon as they can for these events.  I think they are more enjoyable that way.
And what's wrong with being an elitist?  You talk like it's a bad thing?
(j/k)
Dan


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## Dennis (Jan 18, 2008)

Im all for having trad only hunts thats all im about and thats all i do.
But if anybody shows up that shoots wheels eather by chance or they planned it which tells me there wanting to maybe see what its all about.Im going to welcome them if nothing else to set an example of what were about. For example we met hogdgz on a trad hunt and you could not ask for a nicer guy and now he is trying to become a trad archer, he just need to sell that mathews so he can afford a new bow. but whether he does or not he's welcome in my camp. I like the idea of trad only shoots but want turn anybody away that shoots something different besides we allways need somebody around to mess with


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

I had a little conversation about this today with apex.
my take is if you want an organized hunt to take place then 
you need an organization to do it.instead of putting an invite on woodys for all to see maybe just put it in a trad only organization.
remember woodys has many members and only a "few" shoot trad.
Just don't put it out there for all to see unless you are welcoming people interested in it as well.
My first thought about the feb event was I would shoot trad in camp and maybe hunt with compound.
you are considered"elitist" when you don't want everyone to come.
this is woody's. it's a big campfire not one for just one group.
I still would like to come if I can make it.
if you want more people to learn then dont restrict what they shoot. this argument is just like every other one hunters have.
we never come together as a whole but try to single ourselves out as groups with different interest instead.
just my .02


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## pine nut (Jan 18, 2008)

OK Steve (SOS) I resemble that remark about "pot bellies and grey hair".  I say if ya got it flaunt it or sumthin like it!  
Seriously, I think this is a good thread and can lead to good things.  My son came to his first trad hunt at horse creek this year with his compound.  He came to his second hunt with us and left it at home.  He has had a blast and said so.  I'm not sure he's converted yet, but he has definitly been "helped" in that direction by you guys.  
Al I agree with every thing you've said so far.  I think we're all saying the same thing just in different ways a bit.  All have made good and valid points.  I don't feel anyone should feel excluded, but I don't see that we have to feel guilty about having a trad only shoot and I don't.  I know some trad shooters that can compete nicely with the wheelies etc., but I never was one to compare apples to oranges.  It is pointless.
Wheelies are complex but fine tuning a long bow isn't a lot simpler IMO.  Sights on wheelies or longbows help aiming etc. but it isn't what we're about.  I don't see any problem there.  I've tried just about all of them.  I always found it difficult to see my sights at dusk or dawn, but I can shoot my longbow almost in the dark.  That's advantage to hunting to me.  
I think for me and I suspect a lot of others it's about a philosophy of hunting, personal conduct and respect for what we do and what we persue, in short, a realization of life and how we tie into the scheme of things.  Biggest reason is it's FUNNNN!
JMHO


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## Apex Predator (Jan 18, 2008)

Bukbaks,

You are a "lurker" on the traditional forum.  That means you have a genuine interest in traditional archery.  I didn't post the invite on any other forums for a reason.  You are more than welcome to come along and share my campfire.  I would love to share my "limited" knowledge, and you may shoot my bows as long as your hands don't drag the ground.  I posted my feelings on my other post a little more completely.  I'm gonna back out and cut and past on here.


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## Apex Predator (Jan 18, 2008)

I think I need to define what I intended to accomplish with this hunt. I have been shooting traditional gear for about 10 years, but just shifted to all traditional this year. I hunt with compound shooters all the time because I don't have any traditional bow hunters near me. I wanted a chance to meet some of these great folks that I converse online with. I have been unable to attend the wonderful out of town shoots/hunts due to my work situation. I am all for wheelie shooters attending if their desire is to broaden their horizons and be introduced to the more rewarding, simpler side of bow hunting that traditional gear provides. I certainly can't exclude anyone from hunting on public land, but I don't want to take away from anyones traditional experience either. It would be sad if some decided not to attend if they thought it would be the same old public land bow hunt with crossbows, compounds, and firearms. This WMA is very quite this time of year, which is the reason I chose it. That and the fact that I know it pretty well. Please understand that my intentions are not to exclude anyone, but I would prefer if this was a traditional gathering as it was intended. After all, you wouldn't bring your Volkswagen to show at an american muscle car show, would you?


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## choctawlb (Jan 18, 2008)

I agree with buckbacks. Woody's is an open forum, with all type of hunters, rifle, inline, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, and traditional bows frequent here. To post an all traditional hunt on here is kinda "flaunting" it I guess for lack of a better word. If we're getting together to hunt on a WMA , and we're just getting together it should be posted on here and be open. If we are looking for a traditional only experience, maybe that should be left off this forum, and reserved for TBG threads. I want to spread Traditional archery, and I don't consider myself an elitist, but every once in a while I'd like to get out in the woods, with a bunch of like minded folks, with no modern bows that will shoot 3" 75 yard groups, and just hunt and have a good time.Step back in time to the days of "Fred Bear" if you will.  It's nothing personal, and if folks want to come to a traditional  hunt, they need to hunt traditional. If you want to play basketball, you don't use a softball in the process.  If I want to be a part of something special, I need to conform to what ever special limitations are set forth, and if it's not something I am passionante about,leave it to those that are. I don't play golf because it's not someting that interest me enough to persue. It's fun to watch, and I have played, but it just don't float my boat.  Just my 2 cents.
Ken


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

Apex your are right I  am a lurker. I have an interest in this and I just bought a bow yesterday. been shooting a couple of others in the last month, even watch a guy at the chehaw make one.I went and shot it, I studied the cane arrows, the turkey fletchings, the arrowheads he had made. I even bought some artificial sinew and made a string for an old bow I had at home. I went to that event really just for the traditional archery but all of it was great.
you shouldn't post an open invite like that on here. it would be better if you had a list of names and just contacted them.
anyone with an interest in this should be welcomed. just like the kid you sits an watches that basketball game waiting for someone to ask him to play.that is me.
I also have no one in interest of this around me. My buddy and me do bowhunt only but he has no interest in this yet.
If you have never seen or been around it how do you know if it's something you like?
You gotta start somewhere and if this get together is not the place just make it LOUDLY known that it is trad only.
however what you are trying to acheive may be best suited to a hunt club or private land.


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## Al33 (Jan 18, 2008)

This place we call Woody's Campfire is a lot of things, first of which is a forum for the outdoorsman, but all are welcomed to participate as long as they abide by the rules of this site. We have grown a lot in the past 6 years and if you haven't noticed we have significantly increased our forum subjects to accommodate the many varied interests. Some of them are very specialized and unique and it is that way for a number of reasons. There are other sites that are exclusionary and you can only post about a subject that is related to what they are about. Nothing wrong with that because the WWW is a great big place and what ever your interests may be you will surely find a forum that addresses it.

Obviously, according to some, anyone that may be a part of an exclusionary site, regardless of it's subject or nature, must be an elitist or snob. How dare anyone put something out on the Internet that excludes anyone from talking about anything they want since the Internet is a public forum in itself? This kind of rationale just doesn't fly for me. We have this Traditional Archery Forum for those that want to share their experiences with like minded individuals and anyone else who might be interested in what we do. There is absolutely not one sensible reason why a member here cannot specify what it is he wants to do or who he wants to extend an invitation to for participation. If I want to use this forum to organize and plan a hunt for traditional shooters ONLY that is not only my prerogative, but my right to do so. This site affords us all the opportunities to do just that via public networking among many other benefits. It bothers me that some here feel the need to undermine that right. I am concerned others here will be very reluctant to suggest or propose any event for fear of being labeled an elitist if they exclude anyone.

Like I said in my original post here, if I am an elitist or even a snob in some eyes I can live with it. It dang sure ain't gonna stop me from planning or participating in an event just because 15,000 Woodyites are not invited.


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## matthewsman (Jan 18, 2008)

*I understand what you mean*



choctawlb said:


> I agree with buckbacks. Woody's is an open forum, with all type of hunters, rifle, inline, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, and traditional bows frequent here. To post an all traditional hunt on here is kinda "flaunting" it I guess for lack of a better word. If we're getting together to hunt on a WMA , and we're just getting together it should be posted on here and be open. If we are looking for a traditional only experience, maybe that should be left off this forum, and reserved for TBG threads. I want to spread Traditional archery, and I don't consider myself an elitist, but every once in a while I'd like to get out in the woods, with a bunch of like minded folks, with no modern bows that will shoot 3" 75 yard groups, and just hunt and have a good time.Step back in time to the days of "Fred Bear" if you will.  It's nothing personal, and if folks want to come to a traditional  hunt, they need to hunt traditional. If you want to play basketball, you don't use a softball in the process.  If I want to be a part of something special, I need to conform to what ever special limitations are set forth, and if it's not something I am passionante about,leave it to those that are. I don't play golf because it's not someting that interest me enough to persue. It's fun to watch, and I have played, but it just don't float my boat.  Just my 2 cents.
> Ken



and it makes sense...

But...

I am interested in the Chehaw festival.Rendevous etc....The period lifestyles and re-enactments..

I know I can come as a spectator,I went last year and enjoyed it... 

Just because I'm interested and have met you,Ben,and Nicodemis doesn't mean I should be allowed to bring my Hillary tent,mattress pads and coleman stove and lantern and ruin your atmosphere...I ain't pickin' on you Ken,just using an example...

On to my post...........

On the other hand,this forum is a valuable tool to promote awareness of the activity...

Such was the Traditional hunt here

If Jody Hawk invited me on a rabbit hunt ,and I asked him if I could just bring one of Branch's dogs and quail hunt instead,then maybe I should have a quail hunt instead..

The WMA was opened to all hunters,if someone wanted to have a Woody's gathering and bowhuntthey could have...

If they just wanted to have a picture taking outing,they could have...

I they just wanted to have a squirrel dog trial,they were welcome to...

Al..I don't think it makes you an elitest or exclusionary...It looked to me that anyone was welcome to come join the festivities and hunt with y'all with traditional equipment...


Do what you do..no apology needed ..or should be expected..



Just my opinion(which is free and worth what it costs you)


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## John Cooper (Jan 18, 2008)

dang skippy AL i agree 100% with your last post. i aint against anyone hunting how they feel like they should, but if i want to have a hunt on public land in GA. and i paid my $308.00 for my out of state lic. then i should be able to invite only trad folks. now that being said if'n you wanted to hunt with wheels but get a taste of trad and you ask about camping and hunting with us i'd say heck yeah come on. just like the horse creek hunt we met hogdgz and that fellow is my kinda folks. then there was the TBG elitest on the other side of the clearing .......LOL......just kidding guy's. heck i just want to see young people get out and hunt.


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

Just don't expect when you advertise(on an open forum) a trad only hunt on public land with public camping that only trad will show up.
that's all I'm saying


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## robert carter (Jan 18, 2008)

I believe that very very very few people will become traditional bowhunters with out at least a little one on one guidence.I welcome any one in camp on hunts that I go to . i have been "having" a hunt at Horse creek for six years now. A couple of those years were TBG hunts and I was an officer but the last few have just been invites to whoever wanted to share a campfire.I live in the swamp ,work weekends and don`t make it to other gatherings so this is my way to socialize with others that share the love I do.
   A traditional bow to me is not a weapon of nostalgia however you spell it nor a handicap. It is a bloodletting killing simple tool.Fact is MOST that play with one will not become trad hunters cause they would rather kill than hunt. I`ve seen over 6 p&y class bucks the last two years at under 30 yards but could`nt get the shots. could I have with a compound , You bet.But it would be like hitting them with the truck for me. Its not how many or how big its just plain HOW I get it done is what I love.That being said I don`t go without meat , I`ve killed over 200 deer and hogs with a stickbow and plan on that many more afore I get old as AL, insert smile here.
   All that being said ,this IS a TRADITIONAL forum and I would think any hunt promoted here would be for traditional hunters with the exception of someone wanting to try out a stickbow . I welcome that. But I have had some non traditional fellows show up at my hunts simply hoping I`d show`em some honeyholes and I don`t simply cause I save`em for my stick shooting buds.
 Buckbacks and Josh , I welcome you fellas any time. If you hang out here you gotta want to . C`mon and we`ll have fun but be warned a Mathews is NOT a high priced bow. Wait till you buy one you gotta wait a year for a fella to build for near a grand.RC


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## John Cooper (Jan 18, 2008)

well said robert.....by the way when you gonna show this hillbilly dem honey holes......LOL


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks Robert. I have got to start somewhere. I have a customer of mine that is 70 yrs old. shot trad for 45 years, still has them. now he has a switchback. he has killed caribou,moose, bear and deer with his. I went the other day to his house and shot a 60's model fred bear he had. He said that bow was his killin machine. he had just gotten a new bow(custom) but I'm not sure from who.
man that first day I was happy with my 20 yd groups. most all were in a pie plate. he laughed said i needed them tennis ball size groups.LOL


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## robert carter (Jan 18, 2008)

I did show you some Cooper but you and Dennis stay lost so much you can`t find`em again...RC


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## John Cooper (Jan 18, 2008)

heck buddy me and lewis wuz on hog's every day just couldn't connect. by the way i wernt never lost i was just teaching lewis how to find his way outta the woods........


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## Dennis (Jan 18, 2008)

Hey any body know which way the truck is?


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## fflintlock (Jan 18, 2008)

Well now !
I like most all I have read so far, and I gotta pick RC's out, the man is correct, give him a cigar ! 
I have deer hunted with my recurve in a camp full of high tech compounds, I have dove hunted with a smoothbore flintlock and caplock double barrel,  in a feild full of autolodders, I have deer hunted in many a camp using a flintlock, when everyone else was using a scoped, highpowered rifle, same deer camp next time with a bunch of scoped inline muzleloaders and I still have my ole flinter in hand. Yes I have evan , as mentioned by someone else, had the nerve to fish with a fly rod, when everyone else there was using a spin or bait cast, salt water and fresh. You know what, they actually thought I was out of my mind ! LOL !!
 Traditional Archery is just that, Traditional !
If some one here, on this, what's it called, Traditional Archery Site, want's to promote and orginize a Traditional Hunt, they have all the right to do so, public land or not ! Heck, it's their camp !
I have never seen a turn down to any wheel shooter on this site. I'll hunt with anyone. But, I will abide by what they want to get out of what they are doing, as I said, it's their camp !
 I have always shot recurves and long bows, it's the way I was brought up. I did however switch to a compound one year, I sold it the following year, it was just not my cup of tea. Way too much to keep up with, too much to go wrong with, had to shoot it at a 90 degree angle, just way too much. I spent a good amount of money for it too, it wer'nt no cheapy. 
 I really dislike inline muzzleloaders, I love flintlocks.
I don't like automatic rifles, I love single shots, or at least a bolt action.
 I don't like automatic handguns, I love single actions. 
I don't really care for spinning rods, I love fly rods
I don't like compounds, I love recurves or long bows.
 Folks, this is just me, it's what I am and it's what I do.
I do play golf, when I can, I ain't really good, but I do enjoy it.
 We are all different in the ways and means we do things, that's what makes us individuals, and either intresting, or anouying, depending on who your talking to, LOL !!
 I hunt for the enjoyment it brings me, and for some simple meat to put on the table. lately I feel like a vegatarian (sp), but I truely enjoy the heck out of it. 
 I blame the sporting good market and the state wildlife office for what is happening to many of the states hunting regs and the way animals are being killed off. My question is, What the heck are ya'll thinking ?
 The more better, more improved, fastest way to kill animals, has put a real different mindset into our next generation of hunters, shooters and dare I say, sportsman !
 In early times, hunting was a way of life, then as early as the 1700's, it became a market way of life. It took a long time to bring it back, I beleive now, it's going back to the market, as in the way of more deer killed and biggest horns on the wall. Heck, it's promoted on the site, Woody's !
 How do you accomplish this ? 
By getting the fastest, quickest, best ways !
No one is really in to the simple and fun times in the woods any more, it's all business any more. 
 Now, there are some folks that feel the same way, and they are going back to more simpiler ways, why ?
 Because, it's more fun, less complicated, easy going, less stress and it brings back memories of old, with their dads and grandfathers. Some do it because it's a misterious, enchanting, or it's calling their true nature from within.
 All of this has to do with what you ask, everything ! Think about it !
 I can get along with anyone, no matter what their weapon of choice is, I may not like their weapons, but they are brothers of the hunt. I do choose  my hunting partners in the way of their mindset of why and how they hunt, that's my right and decision to do so. If they have to use sights, that does'nt bother me, if they are a true conservasionist and stewards of the animals we hunt, that's the main thing. I really don't like horn or trophy hunters. Horns are a plus, if you come accross them, but it's truely not the reason, for the season !
 All of this has to do with what we do, as traditionalist. That's the way I see most, if not all tradtional archers. Hence the traditional archery hunts, it's a way of life, the TBG has absolutely nothing to do with it. We are a group of good folks that do some things different, wether it be on public land or private, here on Woodys or in a secret email. If you want to do a traditional hunt, advertise it here and say, "Traditional Hunt", they will come ! If you advertise a "Hunt", then be prepared to take "all comers", simple as that.
 We here are not purist, or snobs, we just do things a bit different, for different reasons. 
 That's my take, good or bad !
Let the arrows fling, I'm a hard head !! 
 Have I made the least bit of sense to anyone ?
 Jerald Eyer


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

not really. what I don't understand is they want us to come on one hand and the other they dont really want us to come.(i am not referring to me personally, I'll have a tradbow if I showup)
so what gives? al labeled the thread "Trad Events", is this an event or a fellowship. I understand that if someone advertised "a crossbow hunt" none of you would be there.
however this is different, this is a chance for people to see the past, get a feel for it, and play along even if only in spirit. I am sure if someone came to camp with a compound they would wish they had a trad before they left. so is it a fellowship of only "trad hunters" and no wannabes?
I know why apex wants it like he does and I understand that. Maybe I am just potstirring for the sake of the discussion.


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

Just BB said:


> Folks that shoot compounds and crossbows have made the choice that traditional is not for them. Why should they be offended by not being included in traditional shoot?




don't assume they made a choice it is not for them. The other option just may be all they know. Walmart doesn't sell alot of trad archery stuff and alot of people "get their start" right there in that store.And even though Bass Pro sells trad bows I am willing to bet that unless you ask for them they will not even try to sell them to you.
You guys have something that we may want. We just need the opportunity to get involved and if you exclude someone from it (even if intentions are good) they may feel left out and never explore that option.
Apex look at it like this. I have no one to trad hunt with just like you. I am only 90 miles from you. that makes it very possible that we could share some hunts in the future.I just have to get started.

In reality I would think trad hunting is your last option to learn.Don't you think there are many more crossovers than original "purist"?


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## SELFBOW (Jan 18, 2008)

Al33 said:


> My whole point is; Why can't we have trad only hunts or events, even on public land, without coming across as being snobs in the process?
> 
> I don't think you can without coming across that way.
> I think the public land part plays into it here.
> You can have it but I don't think it would end up trad only.


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## SOS (Jan 18, 2008)

I think my point is you can advertise a trad get-together on public land without any problem - most people would have no problem with that and not feel they were excluded because a group of like minded individuals want to get together.  I just think we ought to make non-trad shooters feel welcome so they get a taste of what we enjoy - that's why I brought 3 extra bows to the hunt.  Especially on public land.


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## Al33 (Jan 18, 2008)

Let me tell you folks why I started this thread in the first place. It was not simply because Apex Preditor wanted to have a hog and bunny hunt for us trad shooters here at Woody's, others here have done the same with bear and deer hunts. What has occurred in the past is non trad hunters wanting to get in on the fun when it was specifically noted it was to be a "trad" event. I have been asked on more than one occasion how best to address these dilemmas when the the originators of the events wanted to keep them true to their intents without causing resentment.  In other words, how to say no to someone wanting to participate with a weapon other than a trad bow. 

If you know me personally you know I will gladly help anyone, as best I can, who wants to learn how to shoot a recurve or longbow. Neither do I think I am better than a compound shooter because I shoot trad bows. If someone is truly sincere about wanting to learn and a trad hunt or event provides them with that opportunity, then by all means accommodate them. However, just remember there are some who just want to get in on the hunt and that is there sole objective. I am very thankful Apex Preditor offered up this opportunity to not only share his learned hunting grounds but to accommodate us with advice, information, and even firewood for the camp. Were it not for fellows like him many of us would miss out on a lot of great hunting experiences. I respect his right to request the hunt be for trad shooters only and he should not feel slighted because that is what he wanted to do. He advertised it as a trad hunt and just like it has happened before non trad shooters  started asking him for an invite on the thread, not via a PM. That put him in a difficult situation and like I said earlier it has happened to others here as well.

I didn't want this thread to be about the hog and bunny hunt, buckbacks put it on the table, but it is part of the reason I started it.

Gentlemen, there have been some very insightful and well thought out responses and I appreciate everyone of them. I sincerely DO hope this turns out to be a constructive conversation. If nothing else maybe it will enlighten others to the fact that some here just might want to do something  their way for the essence of it and no one should feel excluded if they do not do it that particular way. 

Mathewsman, great analogy with the Chehaw Festival thing. There are many period type events where the participants better be dressed accordingly or they will end up as spectators.

Thanks all!


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## John Cooper (Jan 18, 2008)

very well said AL .


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## fflintlock (Jan 19, 2008)

Do not wear your feelings on your sleeve. No one here, I am sure is trying to insult or or hurt anyone from comming on out and enjoying a good time. 
 It is truely a different  mindset. If you can relate, fine, if you can not, that is fine as well. We are all brothers of the bow, we just go about it a little different. 
 Don't be offended, we are just a bit different in as what we do !


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## dutchman (Jan 19, 2008)

FWIW, you guys have made an impression on me here in the Traditional Forum. I just bought my first longbow the other day and am itching to get started. Reading about y'all's hunts and knowing the fun I have shooting the longbow (thanks to Al), I have taken the plunge. And my daughter's in it with me. She's got a longbow, too.

That said, I don't feel right "horning in" on an event that I'm not set up for. By that I mean, having at least the basic stuff to get by with.


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## cardenuto14 (Jan 19, 2008)

robert carter said:


> Buckbacks and Josh , I welcome you fellas any time. If you hang out here you gotta want to . C`mon and we`ll have fun but be warned a Mathews is NOT a high priced bow. Wait till you buy one you gotta wait a year for a fella to build for near a grand.RC



Thanks Robert!

I just want to learn how to shoot a trad bow. I was going to just do it on my own but after reading time and time again on the threads here that it is better to have some help I decided what better way than to get involved.

Josh


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## cardenuto14 (Jan 19, 2008)

dutchman said:


> FWIW, you guys have made an impression on me here in the Traditional Forum. I just bought my first longbow the other day and am itching to get started. Reading about y'all's hunts and knowing the fun I have shooting the longbow (thanks to Al), I have taken the plunge. And my daughter's in it with me. She's got a longbow, too.
> 
> That said, I don't feel right "horning in" on an event that I'm not set up for. By that I mean, having at least the basic stuff to get by with.



I agree with you dutchman. I would bring a trad bow to an event to but i don't have one yet. I almost bought one the other day but i have decided that i should shoot some first and decide what i really want to get.


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## reviveourhomes (Jan 19, 2008)

My take is that this event was mentioned on a "Open forum" BUT it was in the traditional section not the Compound or even the Rifle hunting section. So I think there is a huge difference. If it was placed in the general hunting section then I believe you would be right about it being weird, but since it was posted in the TRAD forum then there is no argument.

Now that being said I have no problem hunting with whoever and whatever they use, BUT I think we should be alowed to have a trad onlyu hunt uf we so desired without being labeled "Elitest". The point that was made about someone setting a crossbow only hunt, well if that happened I wouldnt even consider going. Not because I think it is wrong but because for one I dont shoot one and secondly they want a CROSSBOW ONLY hunt, plain and simple.

Some people get offended too easily but at the same time there truley are Trad "Elitest" and they stink, but if you guys take a second to read through this trad forum you would see that we are far from that, its just that we would like to maybe have a Trad only hunt! LOL


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## robert carter (Jan 19, 2008)

Alrighty fellas. If you ain`t got a stickbow and you want to try one of mine your welcome. Be warned mine are trained. I have to hide the arrows under the bed to keep`em from killing stuff while I`m at work.RC


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## reviveourhomes (Jan 19, 2008)

He aint kiddin either!!! LOL


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## ChrisSpikes (Jan 19, 2008)

robert carter said:


> Alrighty fellas. If you ain`t got a stickbow and you want to try one of mine your welcome. Be warned mine are trained. I have to hide the arrows under the bed to keep`em from killing stuff while I`m at work.RC





RC, brother, you won't do!

Chris


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## pine nut (Jan 20, 2008)

Dang I shoulda bought his arras instead of one of his bows!!  Got any for sale RC?


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## John Cooper (Jan 20, 2008)

pine nut said:


> Dang I shoulda bought his arras instead of one of his bows!!  Got any for sale RC?



heck doc his bow is just like his arra's they gots MoJo all over them too. just takem to da woods and put a arra on it and it'll hunt fer ya.........


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## stick-n-string (Dec 18, 2009)

This deserves to be brought back!
Like I said before and will say again yall are some great people!


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## lagrangedave (Dec 18, 2009)

I just read this whole thread without realizing that it was almost a year old. I was sitting here enthralled, and thinking, how could anybody who had met some of these people think they were elitist. Al was the very first person that I ever met on this forum (WARII). Talk about lucky!!!!! I immediately liked him. I had no idea he shot a bow. With-in thirty minutes he had me and my son shooting arrows in the dark using a coleman lantern I just bought my first recurve and can't wait to get good enough to hunt with it. Thanks to Al and everyone else who have helped me get started on the journey. I hope that it is a long one.


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## halrowland (Dec 18, 2009)

One and all are welcome at the Appling Bowhunters Festival on Memorial Day Weekend 2010.  (Just ask someone who has been!)


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## Jake Allen (Dec 18, 2009)

halrowland said:


> One and all are welcome at the Appling Bowhunters Festival on Memorial Day Weekend 2010.  (Just ask someone who has been!)



We have this on the schedule above. I hope to make it this year!
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=440073


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## Al33 (Dec 18, 2009)

lagrangedave said:


> I just read this whole thread without realizing that it was almost a year old.



Old bones.  Actually, it is very close to two years ago this thread started, Jan. 18 of '08. 32 more days will make two years.


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## Jeff Kitchens (Dec 18, 2009)

Hope to be able to make it back this year Hal.  I really missed seeing all of y'all last year.


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## Jeff Kitchens (Dec 18, 2009)

Funny reading some of the old threads and seeing where people were at just a few years ago.  Hogdgz is a great example.  Just look at his avatar.  That is awesome.


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## John Cooper (Dec 18, 2009)

some good reading in this thread......


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## ChrisSpikes (Dec 18, 2009)

Al33 said:


> Old bones.  Actually, it is very close to two years ago this thread started, Jan. 18 of '08. 32 more days will make two years.


Right before that memorable hunt of Marty's.  Killed my first pig there.  Good times....


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## Apex Predator (Dec 18, 2009)

I've enjoyed reading this one again!  Ole Martin "buckbacks" is like a bull dog ain't he?  It's funny, because Martin in one of my best hunting buddies now!  We gotta get that bow of his trained though!


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## SELFBOW (Dec 18, 2009)

Apex Predator said:


> I've enjoyed reading this one again!  Ole Martin "buckbacks" is like a bull dog ain't he?  It's funny now, because Martin in one of my best hunting buddies now!  We gotta get that bow of his trained though!



Hopefully I can get some of RC's arrows for that. With the holiday season in full swing, it's good to look back  and see how things have changed for the better. With the hard times lots are having right now, this sheds some light on the positive things that have happened in the last couple years. Its a journey no doubt, part of life and a fun ride!


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## Al33 (Dec 18, 2009)

Jeff Kitchens said:


> Funny reading some of the old threads and seeing where people were at just a few years ago.  Hogdgz is a great example.  Just look at his avatar.  That is awesome.


Yes it is Awesome Jeff!!! That young man jumped in with both feet and took his bride with him.



ChrisSpikes said:


> Right before that memorable hunt of Marty's.  Killed my first pig there.  Good times....


 I had forgotten that that is where you killed your first pig. Man, you sure have come on strong since then.



Apex Predator said:


> I've enjoyed reading this one again!  Ole Martin "buckbacks" is like a bull dog ain't he?  It's funny, because Martin in one of my best hunting buddies now!  We gotta get that bow of his trained though!


 I'll never forget one year after this thread started there was another one similar to it and Ol Martin had done a 180. He is a true convert and we didn't even have to hold him under the water until he begged for mercy. He  and I hit it off real good at the hog and bunny hunt despite his stubbornness. He even tried to point out a rabbit or two for me to shoot at but I still couldn't see 'em.



buckbacks said:


> Hopefully I can get some of RC's arrows for that. With the holiday season in full swing, it's good to look back  and see how things have changed for the better. With the hard times lots are having right now, this sheds some light on the positive things that have happened in the last couple years. Its a journey no doubt, part of life and a fun ride!



It has been a lot of fun Martin and I am glad you are a part of it. I am already looking forward to another hunt with you and many others here. Always a grand time.

It's good to look back every now and then to get a better sense of where you are going having seen where we have been.


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## Necedah (Dec 18, 2009)

There's a lot of truth to this thread:
When I started shooting a bow again after a 30 year break, I started with compounds to keep up with my grandsons. However the compound events were always so impersonal.  Getting information was like pulling teeth. Nobody wanted to help and nobody wanted to chat. They just wanted to shoot and not share anything that might give someone else an edge. Well, when I started reading the Traditional Archery Forum, I knew I was in the wrong group. My first traditional shoot at Culloden last March felt like "coming home."

It's not the equipment....... It's the people

If the Trad group decided to start hunting with atlatls, I would be there slinging away with ya and having a great time doing it. 

Dave


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## Apex Predator (Dec 18, 2009)

Necedah said:


> There's a lot of truth to this thread:
> When I started shooting a bow again after a 30 year break, I started with compounds to keep up with my grandsons. However the compound events were always so impersonal.  Getting information was like pulling teeth. Nobody wanted to help and nobody wanted to chat. They just wanted to shoot and not share anything that might give someone else an edge. Well, when I started reading the Traditional Archery Forum, I knew I was in the wrong group. My first traditional shoot at Culloden last March felt like "coming home."
> 
> It's not the equipment....... It's the people
> ...




Well said brother!


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## longbowdave1 (Dec 18, 2009)

where does my "traditional crossbow" fit in? i built a copy from the picture in fred bears 1968 book. he refered to it as the "modern day crossbow".


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## markland (Dec 21, 2009)

Dang me too Dave, I was thinking didn't we just go thru this last year about this time, bang, looked at the date and saw it was last year, so I guess my comments I was gonna make are the same I did last year!
I think we covered it pretty well last time, this is a "trad" event for those that hunt, shoot and live for traditional archery and anyone else that wants to come and be involved is more then welcome as long as they have the desire to learn more about traditional archery and not just about learning somebodies honey holes on public ground.  I think RC covered that point!  We have never turned anyone away, been rude or stated anyone is not welcome, just set some ground rules for why the event was organized and what we wanted to accomplish with these outings.  Heck there are public ground opportunities all over the state and anyone is welcome to get like minded people together and organize anything they want.  These events we are involved in are for the Traditional like minded individuals and for those that have a real desire to learn more about it.  
Of course there are a few of us that do put a little more effort in actually hunting and trying to kill some game, but to each their own and many just come out to shoot their bows and enjoy their time around camp, you get what you put in and everybody will and can have a great time at any of these gatherings.  We just ask that you respect the intent of the gathering and participate kindly in what is trying to be accomplished.  
Now if you see me or Tradbow there, we might not be around camp much during the daylight, but hang on and we will come dragging in around dark 30 and look forward to participating in the campfire commeraderie and of course the awesome cooking that goes along as well, but don't take our abscence during the day as rudeness we just have other priorities at hand to deal with and will catch up after it gets dark!
There, now look forward to seeing everyone somewhere along the way and always happy to share and help anybody that asks, and that means anybody.


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## LongBow01 (Dec 21, 2009)

Man that crossbow is awsome I was thinkin about what it would take to build one the last few days that is exactly what I had in mind!


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## longbowdave1 (Dec 21, 2009)

longbow01,

don't do it! i haven't been looked in the same way by friends or family since breakin' that puppy out at a family gathering a few years ago. and to this day i still disagree with the shrinks evaluation of me!

dave


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## Bubbaforsure (Dec 21, 2009)

longbowdave1 said:


> longbow01,
> 
> To this day i still disagree with the shrinks evaluation of me!



Dave....You are hanging out with all of us....
What is there to disagree with? 
This more like a confirmation...
LOL....


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## SELFBOW (Dec 12, 2014)

This one needs a bump before the new year.....


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