# Rage vs Swhacker



## turkeyhunter835 (Jun 25, 2012)

Tell me which one you would use and why.. I was going to to with Rage this year but after watching a TV program today about the swhacker, it kinda changed my mind!


----------



## dsanders (Jun 25, 2012)

Rage in the change!


----------



## dsanders (Jun 25, 2012)

Cage. You got to love how phones change your words.


----------



## mattech (Jun 25, 2012)

turkeyhunter835 said:


> Tell me which one you would use and why.. I was going to to with Rage this year but after watching a TV program today about the swhacker, it kinda changed my mind!



Are you sure you weren't watching the swhacker infomercial made up to look like an unbiased research show?


----------



## stick_slinger (Jun 25, 2012)

mattech said:


> Are you sure you weren't watching the swhacker infomercial made up to look like an unbiased research show?



Lol, thats exactly what i was thinking.. I believe i just got done watching the samething.

CJ


----------



## turkeyhunter835 (Jun 25, 2012)

mattech said:


> Are you sure you weren't watching the swhacker infomercial made up to look like an unbiased research show?



wow... lol.... yep that was it...


----------



## lungbuster123 (Jun 25, 2012)

I can give you first hand experience from both (100% un biased) and can honestly say just flip a coin. Rage are great and so are Swhackers. Last season I used the 125 grain 2.25" Swhacker and killed 3 deer, a fox, and a pig with them. The furthest tracking job I had was about 70 yards on the pig. I shot one doe last year that trotted 20 yards and stood there for a second then just flopped. I honestly thought I had missed this deer the way she was acting. From my experience most entry holes with the Swhacker are roughly 1 1/2" with the exit being at least the advertised 2.25". I reused a few heads and only had one blade bend which ended up being an older model Swhacker not the newer ones. Swhacker sent me a free pack of heads and had great CS. Here is an entry and exit off one of the does I killed last season...some of the entry is covered by hair.


----------



## ranger07 (Jun 25, 2012)

lungbuster123 said:


> just flip a coin.



x2 bud. I liked both.


----------



## countryboy27012 (Jun 25, 2012)

Both look to be good heads, I just picked up some of each 

IMO the swhackers will need a little more "umph" to work to thier full potential.  But then again that is just IMO.

Right now they are running a BOGO on the swhackers until the end of the month. If your going to get them, might as well get some for free!


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 25, 2012)

I shot three deer with the 125 2.25" swacker last year and only one had a very good blood trail. Not sure why but two of them did not bleed much at all. All the were dead in a short time but only one blood trail out of three. Might have been a fluke but I've never had a blood trail problem with a rage.


----------



## Bow Only (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm hearing that Tim might be able to get his point to market this year.  If that's the case, I think his will out perform either the Rage or Swacker.  Anything that will open up a hog like they're doing will be brutal on a deer.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 26, 2012)

Tim who?


----------



## Bow Only (Jun 26, 2012)

BIGRNYRS said:


> Tim who?




Tim Knight, he's a guy who bow hunts over in Georgia.  He gets lucky sometimes.


----------



## countryboy27012 (Jun 26, 2012)

That was the head you smoked the turkeys with correct? If so I'm ready to see it


----------



## jsav (Jun 26, 2012)

i have known tim for a long time, great guy and a great hunter.


----------



## turkeyhunter835 (Jun 26, 2012)

is he going to sell his heads??


----------



## Bow Only (Jun 26, 2012)

turkeyhunter835 said:


> is he going to sell his heads??



He's getting the patent now and will have some ferrules cut soon.  Knock on wood, but everything that has been shot with one has died and died quickly.  It was 3 turkeys and 7 or 8 hogs so far.  PSEJim has been flinging them around, maybe he'll comment.


----------



## ranger07 (Jun 26, 2012)

I ve had my hands on them and I ve seen a turkey that got the business from it along with a hogs shoulder that couldnt hold it. Pass through on on a hogs shoulder is tough. Great head.


----------



## savedjim (Jun 26, 2012)

I've taken 2 big boar hogs over the 200 pound mark one was a complete pass through the other I spined. The one I spined I pulled the arrow out of his spine resharpend it and went back to killing. It's the toughest fixed blade / expandable u will ever shoot. The other boar ran sixty yards and u can here him fall dead on film. Tim knights broad head cuts a stupid big hole in what ever gets in its way.


----------



## alligood729 (Jun 26, 2012)

Bow Only said:


> I'm hearing that Tim might be able to get his point to market this year.  If that's the case, I think his will out perform either the Rage or Swacker.  Anything that will open up a hog like they're doing will be brutal on a deer.



 I'll buy some.....


----------



## bowkill7 (Jun 26, 2012)

Bow Only said:


> He's getting the patent now and will have some ferrules cut soon.  Knock on wood, but everything that has been shot with one has died and died quickly.  It was 3 turkeys and 7 or 8 hogs so far.  PSEJim has been flinging them around, maybe he'll comment.


Let me start by saying that developing a product for market is unchartered waters for me. I designed this head for turkeys. I killed my three birds with it this season, and was challenged to shoot a big game animal with it. After I shot the first hog in the shoulder on purpose{ a 125 lb sow} and had a complete pass through and a 20 yd recovery, and a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow I realized this hybrid head could be the real deal. The ultimate test was a 200 lb boar that I shot at 35 yrds {actually ranged} and had a pass through both shields, and a 35 yard recovery. The blood trail was so Impressive that I filmed It with my cell phone. And I have it to share if you like. Just pm me and I will send to your cell phone. I am only shooting 58 lbs with a 365 grain arrow @ 310 fps.  And yes I, along with 2 partners are working feverishly to get this head to market.  I will give more info to the readers as soon as I possibly can. I have seen alot of animals and turkeys shot in my bowhunting career, and I personally have never seen a wound channel that this head creates. I would appreciate any and all support on this endeavor. I would never mislead anyone just to make a dollar as some companies seem to do, that just Is not me. Please dont ask for details just yet, I assure you I will share ASAP. Thanks to Pse Jim and Matt and SWWTV  for your support.


----------



## lungbuster123 (Jun 26, 2012)

bowkill7 said:


> Let me start by saying that developing a product for market is unchartered waters for me. I designed this head for turkeys. I killed my three birds with it this season, and was challenged to shoot a big game animal with it. After I shot the first hog in the shoulder on purpose{ a 125 lb sow} and had a complete pass through and a 20 yd recovery, and a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow I realized this hybrid head could be the real deal. The ultimate test was a 200 lb boar that I shot at 35 yrds {actually ranged} and had a pass through both shields, and a 35 yard recovery. The blood trail was so Impressive that I filmed It with my cell phone. And I have it to share if you like. Just pm me and I will send to your cell phone. I am only shooting 58 lbs with a 365 grain arrow @ 310 fps.  And yes I, along with 2 partners are working feverishly to get this head to market.  I will give more info to the readers as soon as I possibly can. I have seen alot of animals and turkeys shot in my bowhunting career, and I personally have never seen a wound channel that this head creates. I would appreciate any and all support on this endeavor. I would never mislead anyone just to make a dollar as some companies seem to do, that just Is not me. Please dont ask for details just yet, I assure you I will share ASAP. Thanks to Pse Jim and Matt and SWWTV  for your support.




After hearing so much about this head im in. As long as they aren't crazy priced then im going to try a pack or two. After hearing about the big boar you shot that pretty much sold me.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 26, 2012)

interested in seeing what this will do....


----------



## BowanaLee (Jun 27, 2012)

Dang, those Ray Charles blood trails sound good hear too. Getemready !


----------



## Bo D (Jun 27, 2012)

People still don't learn.... These are the worst BH,s an archer can use.
Shwackers are just old Sonorans, on a perfect shot they are great, but so is a field point on a perfect shot.
Its the marginal shots were these BHs don't perform with little to no penetration....
Why do you all think so many outfitters prohibit hunters from using them....
Its not brain surgery....


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 27, 2012)

Bo D said:


> People still don't learn.... These are the worst BH,s an archer can use.
> Shwackers are just old Sonorans, on a perfect shot they are great, but so is a field point on a perfect shot.
> Its the marginal shots were these BHs don't perform with little to no penetration....
> Why do you all think so many outfitters prohibit hunters from using them....
> Its not brain surgery....



I have never had any penetration problems at all. Although there was no blood trail, I shot a buck in Illinois last year with a swacker. It went from hip to stern and stuck in the ground to the crest on a buck that went 250.
 I bet you have never used either broad head and you are giving your opinion. I on the other hand have shot 50 animals with a rage 2 blade. Penetration has never been an issue. Plus 3 animals with a Swacker. Your right, it's not rocket science, however even simple subjects are best discussed by those who have experience in the matter.
I do not mean to be harsh, however I always see comments about the Rage from those who have never used them. Simply because you don't use them, they are bad to use. 
Notice I commented on this thread because I have shot both broad heads mentioned.


----------



## lungbuster123 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bo D said:


> People still don't learn.... These are the worst BH,s an archer can use.
> Shwackers are just old Sonorans, on a perfect shot they are great, but so is a field point on a perfect shot.
> Its the marginal shots were these BHs don't perform with little to no penetration....
> Why do you all think so many outfitters prohibit hunters from using them....
> Its not brain surgery....




So just because one person (you) who we don't even know if you have any experience with either says not to use them means we should all just take your "advice" and steer clear of them ? Get real man....take that kind of crap over to AT with the rest of it.


----------



## Bo D (Jun 27, 2012)

Your replies show your level of experience plus a few other things aswell Mr....
Only time will show you Mr Lungbust, good hunting


----------



## J Gilbert (Jun 27, 2012)

bowkill7 said:


> Let me start by saying that developing a product for market is unchartered waters for me. I designed this head for turkeys. I killed my three birds with it this season, and was challenged to shoot a big game animal with it. After I shot the first hog in the shoulder on purpose{ a 125 lb sow} and had a complete pass through and a 20 yd recovery, and a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow I realized this hybrid head could be the real deal. The ultimate test was a 200 lb boar that I shot at 35 yrds {actually ranged} and had a pass through both shields, and a 35 yard recovery. The blood trail was so Impressive that I filmed It with my cell phone. And I have it to share if you like. Just pm me and I will send to your cell phone. I am only shooting 58 lbs with a 365 grain arrow @ 310 fps.  And yes I, along with 2 partners are working feverishly to get this head to market.  I will give more info to the readers as soon as I possibly can. I have seen alot of animals and turkeys shot in my bowhunting career, and I personally have never seen a wound channel that this head creates. I would appreciate any and all support on this endeavor. I would never mislead anyone just to make a dollar as some companies seem to do, that just Is not me. Please dont ask for details just yet, I assure you I will share ASAP. Thanks to Pse Jim and Matt and SWWTV  for your support.



Anxiously awaiting the details Mr. Knight, had been planning on picking up the new Exodus heads for this season but after what has been said here, I would certainly rather support the little guy if your heads are out before season begins.  Please keep us updated as everything moves forward


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 27, 2012)

Bo D said:


> Your replies show your level of experience plus a few other things aswell Mr....
> Only time will show you Mr Lungbust, good hunting



I will compare kills and experience with you anytime.


----------



## pasinthrough (Jun 27, 2012)

BIGRNYRS said:


> I will compare kills and experience with you anytime.


 

Oh, can I play too?


----------



## alligood729 (Jun 27, 2012)

BIGRNYRS said:


> I will compare kills and experience with you anytime.





pasinthrough said:


> Oh, can I play too?



No, y'all don't play fair, and he wouldn't have a chance....lol


----------



## stick_slinger (Jun 27, 2012)

ugh oh, where's the internet police.. Its gettin alittle tense in here lol.

CJ


----------



## lungbuster123 (Jun 27, 2012)

BIGRNYRS said:


> I will compare kills and experience with you anytime.





pasinthrough said:


> Oh, can I play too?




I believe the both of you should be Rage spokesman lol. If anyone here knows the ins and outs of Rage it's you two.


----------



## alligood729 (Jun 28, 2012)

lungbuster123 said:


> I believe the both of you should be Rage spokesman lol. If anyone here knows the ins and outs of Rage it's you two.



They are.....


----------



## stickandstrang (Jun 28, 2012)

Well from personal experience, I've seen Rage 2 blade heads cut a hole big enough to hide a dip can in all the deer we've taken with them, some had great blood trails and some didn't start bleeding good for 20 yds or more.
I saw the Swacker infomercial also a couple nights ago and was VERY impressed, I'm thinkin of giving them a try. 
It's a hard decision, my main objective, like all of you, is a quick humane as possible, easy recovery of the game I shoot, I know Rage works but I'll never know if there is something better till I give it a try....

Bowkill7, best of luck to you, I'm definately interested in supporting one of our own, let us know when you get those "Ray Charles" bloodtrail heads ready...lol


----------



## RMelton (Jun 29, 2012)

I have shot both and like was said before, flip a coin. I will tell you that the swackers are cheaper and on sale BOGO on 3 packs through the end of the month. My neighbor had trouble removing the screw that holds the blades in the swackers and called CS about it. Said that rage had gone to pins so that they were easier to remove and Swacker sent him a new 3 pack and a sharpener for free. It just so happened he got the email from them while he was recovering a deer he just shot with them. Went completely through the backside shoulder. So much for no penetration.


----------



## bowkill7 (Jun 30, 2012)

bowkill7 said:


> Let me start by saying that developing a product for market is unchartered waters for me. I designed this head for turkeys. I killed my three birds with it this season, and was challenged to shoot a big game animal with it. After I shot the first hog in the shoulder on purpose{ a 125 lb sow} and had a complete pass through and a 20 yd recovery, and a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow I realized this hybrid head could be the real deal. The ultimate test was a 200 lb boar that I shot at 35 yrds {actually ranged} and had a pass through both shields, and a 35 yard recovery. The blood trail was so Impressive that I filmed It with my cell phone. And I have it to share if you like. Just pm me and I will send to your cell phone. I am only shooting 58 lbs with a 365 grain arrow @ 310 fps.  And yes I, along with 2 partners are working feverishly to get this head to market.  I will give more info to the readers as soon as I possibly can. I have seen alot of animals and turkeys shot in my bowhunting career, and I personally have never seen a wound channel that this head creates. I would appreciate any and all support on this endeavor. I would never mislead anyone just to make a dollar as some companies seem to do, that just Is not me. Please dont ask for details just yet, I assure you I will share ASAP. Thanks to Pse Jim and Matt and SWWTV  for your support.


I have been doing alot of redneck and real engineering study on what makes an expandable broadhead fail.  This is my conclusion, there are two primary things that cause expandable broadhead failure. Number one is blades are not strong enough due to their thickness, the longer the blade the thicker it must be to retain strength, if the blade twists it looses its ability to cut efficiently, and number two is the strength of the pin or screw that the blade pivots on or slips over. If the pin is too weak in tensile strength the head WILL  fail.  The broadheads that use a slip cam system must have a very strong pin due the energy at impact, redneck example would be taking your truck and backing up 30 ft from a brick wall and ramming it with a head of steam, verses butting your front bumper up against the wall an then start pushing. Expandables that just pivot on a pin are less likely to fail,  with blade and pin strength being equal.  One other main flaw with the slip cams such as rage and the new Nap killzone is that they deploy before entering the animal and must cut their way through hair and hide before getting in to the vitals, this is a great loss of kinetic energy[more so with a three blade] especially when shooting a big buck or boar hog with a heavy shield. This makes it difficult for a short draw archer or an archer that cant shoot heavy poundage to be efficient with his or her bow set up.  The hybrid head that I have been working on has a fixed blade to assist the expandables in penetration. It also has the largest pin at 7/64 of any head on the market available today. These features make the head much more efficient at lower poundages and also creates a very large wound channel.  Now with that said, I am not an Engineer  just a bowhunter that was using the trial and error method trying to build a better mouse trap. The pics are of a 200 lb boar shot at 35 yds with a complete pass through at 58 lbs with a 362 grain arrow set up. Note: the broken end of the blade was caused by the notch for the retaining ring made the blade weak at that point.  This was after this head had killed three turkeys and two other hogs before failure. This has been corrected to make the blade stronger. Two other features that merit mentioning are the tip is well out front of the expandable blades, to prevent glances and the expandable blades are partially open as they sit in the ferrule, and are not completely hidden in the ferrule like most expandables.  Here is a neat feature of this head. I tried to serve it shut with many, many wraps of dental floss to practice with it. But every single time the expandables forced the wrap against the fixed blade and it  cut through the floss and deployed every time.  When I pulled it out of the target there was no floss to be found.  I tried this with several other heads including rage and swhacker and the floss wrap kept the blades from deploying. I found this to be very interesting.  I will keep the forum posted as I continue these Redneck tests LOL!!!!!For those of you that would like to know the head cuts 1 1/8 fixed x 2 1/4 expandable.  And so far have had no issues with flight. In closing there are a few of you on this forum that have seen this head in person, please feel free to comment. Thanks and sorry for the long post.


----------



## Middle Georgia Sportsman (Jun 30, 2012)

bowkill7 said:


> I have been doing alot of redneck and real engineering study on what makes an expandable broadhead fail.  This is my conclusion, there are two primary things that cause expandable broadhead failure. Number one is blades are not strong enough due to their thickness, the longer the blade the thicker it must be to retain strength, if the blade twists it looses its ability to cut efficiently, and number two is the strength of the pin or screw that the blade pivots on or slips over. If the pin is too weak in tensile strength the head WILL  fail.  The broadheads that use a slip cam system must have a very strong pin due the energy at impact, redneck example would be taking your truck and backing up 30 ft from a brick wall and ramming it with a head of steam, verses butting your front bumper up against the wall an then start pushing. Expandables that just pivot on a pin are less likely to fail,  with blade and pin strength being equal.  One other main flaw with the slip cams such as rage and the new Nap killzone is that they deploy before entering the animal and must cut their way through hair and hide before getting in to the vitals, this is a great loss of kinetic energy[more so with a three blade] especially when shooting a big buck or boar hog with a heavy shield. This makes it difficult for a short draw archer or an archer that cant shoot heavy poundage to be efficient with his or her bow set up.  The hybrid head that I have been working on has a fixed blade to assist the expandables in penetration. It also has the largest pin at 7/64 of any head on the market available today. These features make the head much more efficient at lower poundages and also creates a very large wound channel.  Now with that said, I am not an Engineer  just a bowhunter that was using the trial and error method trying to build a better mouse trap. The pics are of a 200 lb boar shot at 35 yds with a complete pass through at 58 lbs with a 362 grain arrow set up. Note: the broken end of the blade was caused by the notch for the retaining ring made the blade weak at that point.  This was after this head had killed three turkeys and two other hogs before failure. This has been corrected to make the blade stronger. Two other features that merit mentioning are the tip is well out front of the expandable blades, to prevent glances and the expandable blades are partially open as they sit in the ferrule, and are not completely hidden in the ferrule like most expandables.  Here is a neat feature of this head. I tried to serve it shut with many, many wraps of dental floss to practice with it. But every single time the expandables forced the wrap against the fixed blade and it  cut through the floss and deployed every time.  When I pulled it out of the target there was no floss to be found.  I tried this with several other heads including rage and swhacker and the floss wrap kept the blades from deploying. I found this to be very interesting.  I will keep the forum posted as I continue these Redneck tests LOL!!!!!For those of you that would like to know the head cuts 1 1/8 fixed x 2 1/4 expandable.  And so far have had no issues with flight. In closing there are a few of you on this forum that have seen this head in person, please feel free to comment. Thanks and sorry for the long post.


 I like the looks of that wound and I think your on the right track beefing up the blades and pivot pins, Its kind of a mechanical on steroids I hope you can get them to production soon I would like to try some myself


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Jun 30, 2012)

Looks really neat. One thing I would like to point out about blades that bend. It could be marketing but it makes sense to me. when a blade hits something very hard and it bends, it does not cut as efficiently as you said. However because it does give a little and keeps the arrow moving forward it does not slow the arrow down as much and helps it to continue to penetrate. If the blade is too rigid and hits something very hard it could momentarily "hang up" and impede penetration. 

Having said that, I have only tested existing broad heads. I have never prototyped one like you are doing. I will very interested in your progress.

A lot of the new heads out now look interesting. However they are all trying to copy what Rage has already done, so there is no real reason for me to change. Especially considering all the success I have had with a Rage head.

I said all that to say this. If your head comes to market and shows a real advantage over the Rage design, I will be your #1 fan. Good luck, thank you for the insight to what you are doing! Keep us posted, I know I am on pins and needles!


----------



## Bow Only (Jul 1, 2012)

bowkill7 said:


> I have been doing alot of redneck and real engineering study on what makes an expandable broadhead fail.  This is my conclusion, there are two primary things that cause expandable broadhead failure. Number one is blades are not strong enough due to their thickness, the longer the blade the thicker it must be to retain strength, if the blade twists it looses its ability to cut efficiently, and number two is the strength of the pin or screw that the blade pivots on or slips over. If the pin is too weak in tensile strength the head WILL  fail.  The broadheads that use a slip cam system must have a very strong pin due the energy at impact, redneck example would be taking your truck and backing up 30 ft from a brick wall and ramming it with a head of steam, verses butting your front bumper up against the wall an then start pushing. Expandables that just pivot on a pin are less likely to fail,  with blade and pin strength being equal.  One other main flaw with the slip cams such as rage and the new Nap killzone is that they deploy before entering the animal and must cut their way through hair and hide before getting in to the vitals, this is a great loss of kinetic energy[more so with a three blade] especially when shooting a big buck or boar hog with a heavy shield. This makes it difficult for a short draw archer or an archer that cant shoot heavy poundage to be efficient with his or her bow set up.  The hybrid head that I have been working on has a fixed blade to assist the expandables in penetration. It also has the largest pin at 7/64 of any head on the market available today. These features make the head much more efficient at lower poundages and also creates a very large wound channel.  Now with that said, I am not an Engineer  just a bowhunter that was using the trial and error method trying to build a better mouse trap. The pics are of a 200 lb boar shot at 35 yds with a complete pass through at 58 lbs with a 362 grain arrow set up. Note: the broken end of the blade was caused by the notch for the retaining ring made the blade weak at that point.  This was after this head had killed three turkeys and two other hogs before failure. This has been corrected to make the blade stronger. Two other features that merit mentioning are the tip is well out front of the expandable blades, to prevent glances and the expandable blades are partially open as they sit in the ferrule, and are not completely hidden in the ferrule like most expandables.  Here is a neat feature of this head. I tried to serve it shut with many, many wraps of dental floss to practice with it. But every single time the expandables forced the wrap against the fixed blade and it  cut through the floss and deployed every time.  When I pulled it out of the target there was no floss to be found.  I tried this with several other heads including rage and swhacker and the floss wrap kept the blades from deploying. I found this to be very interesting.  I will keep the forum posted as I continue these Redneck tests LOL!!!!!For those of you that would like to know the head cuts 1 1/8 fixed x 2 1/4 expandable.  And so far have had no issues with flight. In closing there are a few of you on this forum that have seen this head in person, please feel free to comment. Thanks and sorry for the long post.



You quoted yourself. lol

So far, I have seen nothing but positives from Tim's broadhead.  Since Tim usually hit's his critters where he is aiming, me having a couple is a good thing because who knows where I'll hit them.  It will be more of a "real world" type situation.  lol


----------



## dmedd (Jul 1, 2012)

I am very interested in Tim's broadheads. I can't wait to get my hands on some of them.


----------



## j the g (Jul 1, 2012)

Bowkill, thanks for the real world testing and all the input. I personally need to find a mechanical broadhead that doesnt have flimsy blades and leaves a huge exit wound. I have a red/green color deficiency and it is almost impossible to see blood on the ground unless there is alot of it. I like the accuracy of the mechanicals over the fixed blades.


----------



## Skyjacker (Jul 1, 2012)

turkeyhunter835; said:
			
		

> . I was going to to with Rage this year but after watching a TV program



Neither.  Both companies market their stuff like crazy even having their own TV shows which isn't the best way to judge a broadhead in my opinion.


----------

