# Farmer’s Perspective of GA Hog Hunters



## JAGER (May 9, 2009)

In my opinion, the GON forum has come a long way in the past two years. Not just the forum itself, but the varied background of people who post here. We have enjoyed a few in-depth debates and covered several controversial topics over the past year. Hopefully, we respect each other enough to intelligently discuss the subject below.

I would like to bring two recent observations to the forum’s attention. I would also like to address the problems and offer a solution if you read to the end.

First: 
I would like to share a video segment from the “Georgia Farm Monitor”. The Monitor is the only national and state weekly news/information television program dedicated to Georgia's largest industry, which is agriculture. Their staff travels the state to cover stories of interest to farmers and consumers for their weekly 30 minute program. Here is their website http://www.farm-monitor.com/ if you would like to view channels and air times.

Pay particular attention to the farmer experiencing the crop damage. What do the farmer and the UGA County Extension agent believe is the solution to the problem? More importantly, what do they feel is NOT the solution?

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Our office was contacted three weeks ago by Mark Wildman, the reporter covering the story. They are using our old thermal video footage on file at the television station for this story. Unfortunately, Mr. Nobles (farmer) lives three hours from us and the damage had already been done. He is not the only farmer in Georgia who is feeling the pinch this year and Bleckley County is not the only agricultural area seeking government intervention. The economy and lower commodity prices in 2009 will only make this problem more public.

Second:
I am writing this on the airplane as I return from the 13th Annual Wildlife Damage Management Conference in Sarasota Springs, New York. This conference takes place every two years to promote better understanding of the challenges of managing human-wildlife conflicts and to provide a forum for the wildlife control industry to discuss research, skills and knowledge of wildlife damage management practices. 

The conference was attended by the US Department of Agriculture, US Fish & Wildlife, National Park Service, various state Wildlife & Fisheries and various University Research and Extension Centers. In other words, this conference was attended by the state and federal entities which farmers and Farm Bureaus are asking to solve their feral hog problems. 

One of the speakers at the conference was from the Invasive Animals Research Center in Australia. He discussed their research and development of a new feral hog “toxin” tested in Australia which uses specific chemicals to target pharmacological weakness of hogs. He shared the results of their ground and aerial bait methods and positive results from the past two years of research. 100% of the hogs were dead within 64 minutes of ingesting the bait and most travelled less than 50 yards from the bait area. The results of the study suggest this is an effective, humane, target-specific, safe and cost effective toxin for feral hog control.

Also, biologists from the National Wildlife Research Center in Fort Collins, Colorado are developing contraceptive hog baits which contain a hormone which makes sows infertile. All sows vaccinated with this drug in 2004 and 2006 are still infertile today. The results of the study suggest this drug is an effective, humane and safe contraceptive for feral hogs.

Current Problems:
Farmer Perceptions- Some farmers “perceive” hunting, dogging and trapping are unproductive hog control methods. Some farmers “perceive” hunters do not kill enough hogs. Some farmers “perceive” hunters only push hogs to their neighbor’s farm. Some farmers “perceive” hunters and trappers relocating hogs are a major part of their crop damage problem. Some farmers “perceive” the only solution will come from government intervention or new technologies.

Hunter Perceptions- Some hunters “perceive” there is NOT a crop damage problem in Georgia. Some hunters “perceive” the farmer is the problem because he won’t allow you to hunt his land. Some hunters “perceive” it is possible to eradicate hogs by hunting. Some hunters “perceive” you must leave a few sows so your kids will have something to hunt. Some hunters “perceive” you should never kill more than you can eat. Some hunters “perceive” there is not a feral hog problem.

USDA Perceptions- The USDA “perceives” they must develop a widespread toxin or contraceptive to resolve a wildlife conflict which is destroying agricultural productivity and hurting the national economy. 

Solutions:
The main solution lies in changing the “perception” between farmers and hunters. EVERYTHING in life revolves around “perception”. It doesn’t matter what is right or wrong, it only matters how it is “perceived”. Let me give you an example. There is no scientific evidence which links consuming pork products to the H1N1 virus. Swine flu is NOT transmitted to humans through eating pork. Yet, the governments of China and Russia have already banned imports of pork from Mexico and the United States due to the global H1N1 outbreak. China annually consumes more pork than any other country in the world. So now our pork exports and national economy will be affected by billions of dollars because of a negative “perception”. It doesn’t matter what is really true or false, it only matters what the Chinese and Russian public “perceive”.

Businesses spend millions of dollars in marketing and advertising to give you a positive impression about their product or service. Your “perception” of the product or service determines whether you use it or not. Human nature makes it very easy to change your mind from positive to negative, but next to impossible to change from negative to positive. Emotion often plays a bigger part in the process than logic. 

There might be several hunters from Bleckley County on this forum. So why did the “Georgia Farm Monitor” and Mr. Nobles call us from 140 miles away? Because it was their “perception” we could effectively solve their problem. What did they base this “perception” on? Was it references, referrals, pictures, comments, website, trust, reputation, credibility or past results? It was all the above. 

The best hunters, doggers and trappers on this forum operate the same way. You must have a great reputation and provide the farmer or landowner with positive results or you would not retain permission to hunt/trap. So, I’m not claiming one method is any better than another and I’m certainly not stating all farmers feel the same way. I’m merely making an observation based on phone calls with irritated farmers who are experiencing the same problem as Mr. Nobles. 

I always ask a series of questions to better understand their situation. Here are the results: Farmers who saw tied, cuffed, caught or live hogs had a negative “perception” about the method. Farmers who saw only one or two hogs (alive or dead) had a negative “perception” about the method. Remember, it doesn’t matter whether it is right or wrong, it only matters what they “perceive”. Unless the hog is dead, there is still the “perception” it can be turned loose again. Unless you are killing multiples, the “perception” is the method is not effective.

These farmers need help, but my thermal team is already too busy to be travelling all over the state. We would like to start referring local GON hunters, doggers and trappers to farmers in problem areas which are too far for us. But this will NOT be a blind referral. We will only refer those who use hunting, dogging and trapping methods which produce high-volume numbers of dead hogs. 

We can discuss changing farmers “perceptions” with new methods, equipment or technology in another thread at a later date. I just wanted to share the “Georgia Farm Monitor” clip and WDM Conference presentations while I had some spare time between New York and Atlanta.

---JAGER


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## gnarlyone (May 10, 2009)

*hogs*

That is a crock just like 90% of all the hog hype...For 1 ..that damage was done over a period of time that the farmer knew what was happening and done nothing about it...A hog dogger could comein and in 1 night end the problem...again...he sat there and watch in happen..there are too many people everywhere that knows someonre that catches hogs..i don't feel sorry for someone like that one bit...Hogs did it in the moonlight hrs.....true....so do hog doggers...we CAN be out there all night and wait(Night Vision) or turn out and find them..they will be close i assure you...again..a solution and i don't feel sorry for the man...I just got in at 5 A.M. from solving several farmers problems exactly like this mans..but the difference is they have a brain God gave them to reason and think..so they nipped it in the bud by going to a solution instead of crying and getting thier 15 minutes of frame on TV......I have over 40,000 acres of farm land i manage the hogs on and never felt  like 1 area was "Not Managable".....Talk to my contacts and it's a whole different story......Media airs what it wants and what it wants you to hear....I even noticed a familiar "Thermal Shot" in there.....huh?.....Never once did he mention he had someone in there trying to solve the problem...Ole farmer brown needs to be contacted and told if he's not gonna get "SMART" he's gonna have to get  "TUFF".


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## Todd E (May 10, 2009)

"Hopefully, we respect each other enough to intelligently discuss the subject below.".................Jager

Off to a good start.


There is only one thing I did not agree with. It was in the interview. Farmer asking for government intervention. I do not understand why folks think that the gov has to step in in every situation. Due to outcrys of this nature, "sport hog hunters" are gonna be left holding the bag and


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## Ruger#3 (May 10, 2009)

A few questions and a comment.

Relative to the toxin the aussies are working on. What part of the body chemistry does it attack? How does it specificaly kill hogs and not wildlife or stock in the area? Did they just isolate the area baited? I suspect you would have to publish a public notice so hogs that didnt get a lethal dose but ingested some would not be consumed by humans if taken later? Interesting stuff, as recently I've been reading about wildlife population control through contraceptive agents and the issues with that effort. 

IMHO, no matter the trade conventions serve the same purpose. Those affected share knowledge concerning mutual challenges.

The vendors are always there to hawk their "solution" to the collective group. An economical marketing plan plain and simple.


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## bigjoe061 (May 10, 2009)

*Hunting Hogs*

I have been hunting deer in Ga. since 1977. Hogs ARE destroying crops, and deer habitate. Hogs have been released for the sport of few, no one asked me before they released them, did they asked you?


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## SELFBOW (May 10, 2009)

Even Jager can not solve the problem before it happens. Aren't you targeting the animals while they are destroying the crops?

At what point do the farmers realize they need help before they plant?
Do these farmers try corrals and traps with feed before planting?
I have only been to several farms with hog problems and they run traps always.

That's my question "Exactly what do the farmers do before the crops are damaged to help control this problem?"


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## bfriendly (May 10, 2009)

> That is a crock just like 90% of all the hog hype...For 1 ..that damage was done over a period of time that the farmer knew what was happening and done nothing about it...A hog dogger could comein and in 1 night end the problem...again...he sat there and watch in happen..there are too many people everywhere that knows someonre that catches hogs..i don't feel sorry for someone like that one bit...Hogs did it in the moonlight hrs.....true....so do hog doggers...we CAN be out there all night and wait(Night Vision) or turn out and find them..they will be close i assure you...again..a solution and i don't feel sorry for the man...I just got in at 5 A.M. from solving several farmers problems exactly like this mans..but the difference is they have a brain God gave them to reason and think..so they nipped it in the bud by going to a solution instead of crying and getting thier 15 minutes of frame on TV......I have over 40,000 acres of farm land i manage the hogs on and never felt like 1 area was "Not Managable".....Talk to my contacts and it's a whole different story......Media airs what it wants and what it wants you to hear....I even noticed a familiar "Thermal Shot" in there.....huh?.....Never once did he mention he had someone in there trying to solve the problem...Ole farmer brown needs to be contacted and told if he's not gonna get "SMART" he's gonna have to get "TUFF".



Just curious, HOW MANY HOGS did you kill/Catch?
I know a guy in FL who uses traps(Big FENCE type) and it is NOT unusual for him to catch a whole Group of say 20-40 hogs at one time.
I know you guys that hunt hogs with dogs ALWAYS catch some, but help me out here........
Lets say on your BEST HUNT EVER,  *How many *did you get using dogs?


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## eaglescout98 (May 10, 2009)

Being a man of science I have some initial concerns with the Australian toxin and would need to read the studies before even thinking this might be a solution. As Ruger #3 mentioned, what are the effects on other wildlife or people ingesting this toxin? How would this toxin affect vegitation once it is in the soil? Wild Hogs in Australia are going to be genetically different then the wild hogs in America, have they considered those differences?

Does anyone remember why chemical crop dusting lost its effectiveness in just a short period of time? Survival of the Fittest. In this situation the hogs that can survive eating the toxins are the ones going to be reproducing and their genetic immunity (which came about by chance through the always occuring evolution) will be passed on, thus making this toxin ineffective over a couple of generations. I assure you that will happen because it is nature.


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## gnarlyone (May 10, 2009)

*bfrienly*

I caught 6 last night/this morn......best i ever remember was a place we caught 20 something(Some were pigs)...it was unreal....he had not allowed dogs before we got there. Controling the hogs is something you have to devote a lot of time to...every week and sometimes daily, we make rounds checking the farms..and the farmers communicate with us on when they are planting..I was talking to a farmer this week and he was telling me how impressed he was with what we had done for him in the last few years..his farm borders a big hunting plantation with no fence and it specializes in hogs. The farmer was killing over 100 hogs a year...in the last 3-4 years(total) he  has prob. shot 15-20....none this year....I caught 48 in feb. this year...those 6 last night made 115 for "09"...Also i know it concerns the man"s(farmer) billfold but usually 75% of the time i get a phone call from the guy telling me how the hogs are "KILLING" him...you go over and look at the damage and and it's a couple hogs "milling" around...not to say it's not important but certainly not "Killing" it....I've done this a long time..me and the young men that hunt together put in a lot a of time..sometimes i'm leaving for work at 5:30A.M. and they are just getting home....we do it cause we love it but also cause we have friends that depend on us to look out for them and thier livelihood......A true dog man can control any hog population ...anywhere....but you can't just go once a month for fun and make a difference....the gov. can't afford to run the country..I don't think they need to spend our money on foolishness as this...I work for the state and on thier level...we've had furlough days...layoffs...hiring freezes..and no raises for 4 out of 5 years......get my blood boiling and involved in "whatever means" necessary if they have time for this.


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## bombers32 (May 10, 2009)

That's funny the second thermal vision are deer...........


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## JAGER (May 10, 2009)

Ruger#3 said:


> Relative to the toxin the aussies are working on. What part of the body chemistry does it attack? How does it specificaly kill hogs and not wildlife or stock in the area?



I am not a biologist, but this is how I understand the process. When most people hear the word "toxin", we automatically assume it refers to a "poison". But this process does not use a poison at all. It uses sodium nitrite which is a meat and fish preservative most of us already eat. 

The 'pharmacological weakness' of hogs is that sodium nitrite effects the delivery of oxygen in their blood at a higher level than any other animal. Hogs are the most sensitive species to this process, called methemoglobinemia. This disorder is characterized by the presence of a higher than normal level of methemoglobin (metHb) in the blood. Methemoglobin is a form of hemoglobin that does not bind oxygen. When its concentration is elevated in red blood cells, tissue hypoxia can occur.

In simple terms; when hogs eat sodium nitrite, their body is deprived of adequate oxygen in their blood stream. They feel tired, lay down, go to sleep and never wake up. If they don't eat a lethal dose, they wake up after a nap and go about their business as if nothing happened.

Will it ever be approved in the United States? I don't know. It shows more promise than other research I've followed. The Humane Society radicals would rather see hogs controlled in this manner than by bullets or dogs. 



gnarlyone said:


> ...the government can't afford to run the country..I don't think they need to spend our money on foolishness as this...


I totally agree. You and I don't need the government telling us what to do or how to do it. In my opinion, the problem is not the US Department of Agriculture on this particular topic. The USDA is only trying to solve their customer's problem. 

Bill Clay, the Deputy Administrator of USDA Wildlife Services (WS) was a keynote speaker at the conference. He is responsible for overall planning, coordinating and direction of the national WS operational and research programs. 

Here are the fastest growing sectors in USDA programs:
1. Feral Swine Control
2. Bird Aircraft Strikes at Airports
3. Disease Control Monitoring and Surveillance 

Have any of these three topics been in the media lately? Has it shaped public "perception"? Why should the media care about little things like facts? 

I attend more national and state level conferences/meetings about feral hog control than most hunters and just spent three days with 100+ USDA Wildlife Service agents. Believe me, they would rather have hunters and trappers solve all the feral hog problems. The USDA is not our enemy here. They have no choice than to conduct aerial gunning and to develop toxins & contraceptives when farmers like Mr. Nobles contact their ag extension agents, Farm Bureaus and state legislators to help solve the problem. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.



buckbacks said:


> At what point do the farmers realize they need help before they plant?


 Excellent observation! Often times, the farmer does not know what he needs. He only knows what he doesn't need. Farmers are subject matter experts at farming; not hog control. When they have a hog problem, they contact someone with a gun, dog or a trap and assume this person or group of people are subject matter experts at these skills. This does more to hurt public "perception" than anything else.



gnarlyone said:


> ...A true dog man can control any hog population ...anywhere....but you can't just go once a month for fun and make a difference...


Well said. It takes a year-round program from competent hunters and trappers to solve these problems going forward. Just throwing incompetent people and unsuccessful methods at the situation only causes farmers to "perceive" all hunters produce negative results.

The best defense is a great offense! It is time to start our own media campaign. If farmers want a Georgia Feral Hog Control Program, then we will give them one. It doesn't need to come from the government. It needs to come from the best hog hunters and trappers in the state if we are to be successful at changing our public "perception". 

We are scheduling a series of magazine articles, radio interviews, television shows and seminar presentations which will cover all methods of feral hog control available to Georgia farmers. Then it will be a matter of linking farmers with local professionals to implement a year-round Hog Control Program for them. 

The best time for ag presentations to ensure maximum participation from farmers is during the winter after the fall peanut harvest, between November and February. This way, most of you can begin preventative maintenance for farmers after deer season ends in mid-January, before corn is planted in March. We just need enough competent hunters and trappers willing to produce high-volume results to make this program work. 



gnarlyone said:


> ...I caught 48 in feb. this year...those 6 last night made 115 for 2009.


 These are the kind of numbers which make a real difference to any farmer's bottom line. It isn't bragging, it is advertising! All Georgia farmers need to see the positive results from effective hog control programs like this to change their "perception" of hunters. It is perfectly all right to toot our own horn. No one else is going to promote us. How else will the agricultural community know how effective we are if we don't demonstrate it to them?

Pictures of dead hogs on this forum during the next six months would be an excellent way to demonstrate everyone's proficiency. I prefer to have the best of the best represent all of us at future ag meetings this winter.

---JAGER


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## Ruger#3 (May 10, 2009)

Jager, thanks for that reply. I did quite a bit of reading on the efforts with contraceptive agents in different wildlife. One problem with that approach is the effect on other wildlife if distributed in feed. Of course injection is not feasable in many cases.

The folks with bird aircraft strikes need to take some lessons from the UK. The UK uses falcon hunters around their airfields on a regular basis. They thin the other birds and scare off the rest. Very effective method from watching them work. Knuckleheads planting feed grasses on airfields is another issue that adds to the problem.


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## ROOSTER HOGGER (May 10, 2009)

If its such a problem  they should let more people hunt it


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## redlevel (May 10, 2009)

None of the control methods (thermal, trapping, dogging, biological) will work well as long as catch-and-release and catch-and-relocate continues to be practiced.


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## kornbread (May 10, 2009)

redlevel said:


> None of the control methods (thermal, trapping, dogging, biological) will work well as long as catch-and-release and catch-and-relocate continues to be practiced.


 i agree


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## hawg dawg (May 10, 2009)

Jag I sent you a PM


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## PWalls (May 10, 2009)

redlevel said:


> None of the control methods (thermal, trapping, dogging, biological) will work well as long as catch-and-release and catch-and-relocate continues to be practiced.



Yep.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 10, 2009)

I will add my 2 cents worth into this... And I am not speaking for everyone here - including farmers...

Here is the problem where I live... We don't have a "hog problem" in the area, but we do have hogs. Farmers know that we are getting more hogs, but they will not let anyone hunt.

I have practically begged farmers to let me hunt their hogs, and no one will allow this. I have never been hog hunting, but would love to have someplace to go. I along with my father are both in the law enforcement community, we obey all game laws, and obey land owners wishes and requests - but still farmers will not let us or Anyone else hunt.

I would love to kill some hogs, but until the farmers in my area with hogs allow me to do so, then I guess I will not get a little piggy...

Some farmers bring the problem to themselves being tight and not allowing anyone on their land - even folks who mean well...


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> I will add my 2 cents worth into this... And I am not speaking for everyone here - including farmers...
> 
> Here is the problem where I live... We don't have a "hog problem" in the area, but we do have hogs. Farmers know that we are getting more hogs, but they will not let anyone hunt.
> 
> ...



I hear ya brother the same way around here.Its a whole lot easier to rid them if there is only a few but they wait till there is a real problem and want them gone in one hunt and it just aint gonna happen.Alot of people waits cause they say well Ive only saw one or two so lets just wait and see what happens or they say I was huntn a big buck and didnt want to spook the deer.


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## aaylworth (May 11, 2009)

Ok, so I'm the odd one out and liable to start a fit with the dog hunters.  I respect the bronze and effort it takes to be an effective dog hunter and by this mean no disrespect but this is a numbers game.  One of the observations in "perception" was that one of the negative perceptions facing us "Hunters" was that we failed to eliminate the problem but drove it to a neighbor.  
     As a gun hunter, who hasn't the time, money or experience to be a "Dogger", I know this to be true of the way I hunt.  Enough gun pressure on a lease or any piece of property will push the hogs someplace else but in all honesty this isn't control it is deturance.  While "Doggers" obviously have a conciderable pride invested in their passion and their animals in truth aren't you guilty of the same thing? 
     The Thermal Imaging method puts dozens of pigs on the ground in any given evening but requires them to be in a field doing the damage before it becomes an effective method.  The "Dogger" can go into the brush and find them during the day or night not requiring them to be in and damaging crop before they can be effective but in truth commit far fewer numbers to the ground on any given night.  Without the numbers aren't you just a deturant rather than a cure?  In truth for all the bluster and pomp and circumstances aren't we all more nearly masking the problem than fixing it? 
     I will say this for the "Doggers".  In the end there are a lot more of them than there are $100K arsenals running around in the woods.  As a group on any given night the "Doggers" still claim more Hogs than any other group.  Still it seems to me the reality is they just drive the Hogs around sharing the oportunity with their fellow "Doggers" on the property next door and the Farmer is propably legit in worrying about what the "Dogger", or any other Hunter, on his property is going to do to his neighbors land when the Hogs leave his.
     Having grown up with Farmers I can tell you without a question or doubt, no matter what their opinion of the "US" they hold each other in high reguard and look out for each other like family.  Even when their talking smack about one another they will take note of each other before they ever lose a minutes sleep about the guy with the gun or the "Dog". 
     I think we are all going to have to put aside petty differences and recognize the value of a multifacited assualt on the Hog problem or the Government will end up doing it for us.  I enjoy hunting Hogs and while I recognize the numbers are overwhelming I also recognize that some of the tactics being considered could potentially be devestating to the animal we all enjoy hunting.  We have to do better at changing perception if we are to continue to enjoy this sport.  What would you "Doggers" do if the State determined the need for a mass extermination with a product that worked?


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## georgia_home (May 11, 2009)

for the folks that say "farmers wont let us hunt".. i also hear ya.

the problem is always... and i know you have read enough stuff on this forum to understand... THE BAD APPLE FACTOR!

unfortunately, i think it is that simple. it's sad but true! it just takes one bad apple to make a farmer always say NO!


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

post your numbers all day long...though it is enjoyable to dog hunt, it is not an effective way of dealing with a hog problem...I don't buy it because I know better...it is fun though.


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## gnarlyone (May 11, 2009)

*hog problem*

hogs in an area.....hogs in an area minus 115 in 5 months.....not dealing with a hog problem?....LOL


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

nope, catching a few piggies per night isn't doing a thing....


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## hawg dawg (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> post your numbers all day long...though it is enjoyable to dog hunt, it is not an effective way of dealing with a hog problem...I don't buy it because I know better...it is fun though.



Thats where you are wrong! Your missing the point, when combined with trapping and shooting it is a very productive way to eliminate hogs. Thats what this whole thread is about. When you have some doggers taking out 115 hogs in 5 months that is some dang good numbers. We killed over 200 hogs last year, 170 of them were caught with dogs, so how can you say it is not productive?


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

so those 115 hogs come off the same tract?...and you can continue to the same tract and catch every night?...I trap and hunt with dogs and enjoy both....but I know that it isn't a truely effective method of hog control...again, these 115 all on the same property and you continue to catch your 3 or 4 per night?...we caught three last night and I know it didn't do a dang thing as we can go back tonight and catch more....


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## hawg dawg (May 11, 2009)

JAGER said:


> I am not a biologist, but this is how I understand the process. When most people hear the word "toxin", we automatically assume it refers to a "poison". But this process does not use a poison at all. It uses sodium nitrite which is a meat and fish preservative most of us already eat.
> 
> The 'pharmacological weakness' of hogs is that sodium nitrite effects the delivery of oxygen in their blood at a higher level than any other animal. Hogs are the most sensitive species to this process, called methemoglobinemia. This disorder is characterized by the presence of a higher than normal level of methemoglobin (metHb) in the blood. Methemoglobin is a form of hemoglobin that does not bind oxygen. When its concentration is elevated in red blood cells, tissue hypoxia can occur.
> 
> ...



I want us as hunters to handle this and not get the goverment involved.


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## hawg dawg (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> so those 115 hogs come off the same tract?...and you can continue to the same tract and catch every night?...I trap and hunt with dogs and enjoy both....but I know that it isn't a truely effective method of hog control...again, these 115 all on the same property and you continue to catch your 3 or 4 per night?...we caught three last night and I know it didn't do a dang thing as we can go back tonight and catch more....



You have to be persistent. I don't care what any one says, if you catch 115 hogs in 5 months off the same tract of land for 2 years straight, you have effectively conrolled the population. 

If you hadn't caught those 115 hogs then those hogs would have multiplied, we are not going to fix this problem over night, it will take years of dedicated hunting.


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## Blue Iron (May 11, 2009)

Ya'll still having this discussion? 

I don't care what you do, you will never control the hog population.

Not by traps, thermal, or dogs.

If you enjoy hunting with dogs, GO FOR IT!

If you make a living (Like Jagar) using Thermal GO FOR IT!

Hogs are here to stay period.

Doggers will still have their fun, and Jagar will still have his livelihood, its a win win situation.


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## JAGER (May 11, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> Here is the problem where I live... We don't have a "hog problem" in the area, but we do have hogs. Farmers know that we are getting more hogs, but they will not let anyone hunt.



Thanks for posting as this observation is a common occurrence. I need to make a point from your statement. 

Think about how the word hunt is "perceived" by most farmers. Hunting has a conservation tone and indicates you wish to preserve the species. You are not speaking their language nor giving them a solution to the problem. Farmers want high-volume removal solutions. It is not worth the liability to have a hunter on his land removing one or two hogs a month. 



dadsbuckshot said:


> I have practically begged farmers to let me hunt their hogs, and no one will allow this. I have never been hog hunting, but would love to have someplace to go.



Think about how this statement sounds to a farmer. Farmers are not managing a hunting preserve; they are running a business and trying to make a profit. Most farmers realize traditional hunters are not capable of killing big numbers to effectively manage populations. They are reluctant to allow hunters year-around access to their property for liability or privacy issues. Others have been burned by hunters "stocking" hogs once permission was granted. We must first demonstrate proficiency at removing high-volume numbers of hogs and then effectively implement those methods.



aaylworth said:


> I think we are all going to have to put aside petty differences and recognize the value of a multifaceted assault on the hog problem or the Government will end up doing it for us.





redlevel said:


> None of the control methods (thermal, trapping, dogging, biological) will work well as long as catch-and-release and catch-and-relocate continues to be practiced.



In my opinion, these two statements summarize the best overall solution to the problem.

---JAGER


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> post your numbers all day long...though it is enjoyable to dog hunt, it is not an effective way of dealing with a hog problem...I don't buy it because I know better...it is fun though.



See hevishot thats where the ignorance comes out.You take a sow thats about to have pigs will often go away from the other hogs to have her pigs and you trying to tell us that if we catch her when one hog shows that that wont make a diffrence.


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> so those 115 hogs come off the same tract?...and you can continue to the same tract and catch every night?...I trap and hunt with dogs and enjoy both....but I know that it isn't a truely effective method of hog control...again, these 115 all on the same property and you continue to catch your 3 or 4 per night?...we caught three last night and I know it didn't do a dang thing as we can go back tonight and catch more....


Do you hunt hogs with dogs for the entertainment or do you really hunt to help out a farmer?


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> Do you hunt hogs with dogs for the entertainment or do you really hunt to help out a farmer?



for the pleasure of the sport...I make no dillusions that dogging is really all that effective for hog control....I own my own land and hunt farms all around my place but I don't blow smoke up anyones hind end and promise them I'll wipe out their hog problem...and as far as ignorance...I understand perfectly how babies are made and that the sows that are taken out won't reproduce(unless they are relocated)....my point is that if you take out 115 and can still drop dogs and catch more on any given night then you still have a hog problem...


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## gnarlyone (May 11, 2009)

*Lol*

I never said it was on 1 place...that would n't even be logical........If a dog hunter can't go to a farmer and bring the hog population down from being a "Problem" to an occasional appearance,,only a couple of things are happening.
1. They are not hunting regular
2. They don't know how to hunt
3. They need to get some "Hog Dogs".
4. Hogs are really something that the middle east,democrats and liberals have stratigically placed in the Land of The Free to totally eliminate life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness..and therefore will need the government to step in with helicopters,sterilizing agents and thermal imaging to solve the problem.


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

so...if its not on one place then how much of a difference do you really think you are making?...that was my point. Also, your first post talks about being able to take care of the problem in one night....I don't care how good you or your dogs are, that statement is total bull...in my opinion.


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## REDMOND1858 (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> for the pleasure of the sport...i make no dillusions that dogging is really all that effective for hog control....i own my own land and hunt farms all around my place but i don't blow smoke up anyones hind end and promise them i'll wipe out their hog problem...and as far as ignorance...i understand perfectly how babies are made and that the sows that are taken out won't reproduce(unless they are relocated)....my point is that if you take out 115 and can still drop dogs and catch more on any given night then you still have a hog problem...



you take those 115 hogs and say 50 of the were sows, sows are capable of producing 50 offspring per year give or take a few. This means between the 50, they would have 2500 offspring within a year, say half of their offspring are sows, thats 1250, within 2 years you looking at 62000 piglets that would be on the ground if it wasnt for that hunter. Sure there are still gone be hogs in the woods and always will be, but dont say dogging (or any other type of hog hunting)  isnt an effective way to help lower the population. The proof is rite there. You might not always see a sudden impact but look a   year or 2 down the road and you will. I have personaly been with gnarlyone when a farmer calls and says hey we got a problem,so what does he do?load up the four wheeler go scout the land, hunt it hard for a couple nights, and the farmer calls a week later thanking you for a job well done. Why dont you try going and asking that farmer that is paying $200 for a bag of peanut seed if we are making a difference and then come talk to us


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## JAGER (May 11, 2009)

Blue Iron said:


> Ya'll still having this discussion?



It might seem like the same discussion from past threads, but it is not. We have moved past the differences in our methods and are trying to find some common ground to work together to be more effective. Maybe even repair the negative "perception" some hunters and trappers have given to farmers.



Blue Iron said:


> I don't care what you do, you will never control the hog population.



I think you mean we will never 'eradicate' feral hogs using these methods. Our challenge is to effectively 'control' feral hogs to the point where agricultural damage is minimal.

---JAGER


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## JAGER (May 11, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> sows are capable of producing 50 offspring per year give or take a few.



I understand your analogy, but you might be a little high on your estimate. 10-14 per year would be a more appropriate number.

---JAGER


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## Blue Iron (May 11, 2009)

JAGER said:


> It might seem like the same discussion from past threads, but it is not. We have moved past the differences in our methods and are trying to find some common ground to work together to be more effective. Maybe even repair the negative "perception" some hunters and trappers have given to farmers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
In certain parts of the state you might "control" it, but you won't control it state wide, or nation wide.


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> you take those 115 hogs and say 50 of the were sows, sows are capable of producing 50 offspring per year give or take a few. This means between the 50, they would have 2500 offspring within a year, say half of their offspring are sows, thats 1250, within 2 years you looking at 62000 piglets that would be on the ground if it wasnt for that hunter. Sure there are still gone be hogs in the woods and always will be, but dont say dogging (or any other type of hog hunting)  isnt an effective way to help lower the population. The proof is rite there. You might not always see a sudden impact but look a   year or 2 down the road and you will. I have personaly been with gnarlyone when a farmer calls and says hey we got a problem,so what does he do?load up the four wheeler go scout the land, hunt it hard for a couple nights, and the farmer calls a week later thanking you for a job well done. Why dont you try going and asking that farmer that is paying $200 for a bag of peanut seed if we are making a difference and then come talk to us



50 pigglets a year??? uh huh...I was huntin' hogs when you were a gleam in your diddies eyes, Jr...proof? lol...sure, you/we may push the hogs off the property for a little while and prevent a few from ever doing further damage but come on man...who told you or where did you get the idea that a sow produces 50 piggies per year?..but 14 is bad enough. Kill 'em all.


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## redlevel (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> Kill 'em all.




I agree, but: 

All these discussions are moot when there are at least two people, and probably more,  taking part in this thread who have at least alluded to, if not outright bragged about relocating feral hogs in previous threads.   Under these conditions, the population won't be controlled, much less eradicated.


"No need to worry hog doggers, we'll keep the population rolling."


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## REDMOND1858 (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> 50 pigglets a year??? Uh huh...i was huntin' hogs when you were a gleam in your diddies eyes, jr...proof? Lol...sure, you/we may push the hogs off the property for a little while and prevent a few from ever doing further damage but come on man...who told you or where did you get the idea that a sow produces 50 piggies per year?..but 14 is bad enough. Kill 'em all.



thats funny cause i caught a sow not long ago at all with 12 pigs with her in a freshly planted peanut field. She can drop a litter in 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days and become pregnant within 2 weeks  of that. Im so sorry that isnt 50 a year its 36 wich is still nowhere close to 14.get you facts strait before you try to correct someone and yes i may be younger than most folks on here but that doesnt mean i cant count. I proved my point which proved you wrong. Get over it and get real


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

two litters per year if the habitat is good...usually 5 or 6 pigs but I don't doubt you caught one with 12....I'm sure you can count just fine, just pointing out your facts are a little flawed and your numbers exagerated. No harm meant...keep catchin' em.


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

redlevel said:


> I agree, but:
> 
> All these discussions are moot when there are at least two people, and probably more,  taking part in this thread who have at least alluded to, if not outright bragged about relocating feral hogs in previous threads.   Under these conditions, the population won't be controlled, much less eradicated.
> 
> ...



yep...saw two different trailers in our neck of the woods yesterday with live hogs in 'em....


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## redlevel (May 11, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> thats funny cause i caught a sow not long ago at all with 12 pigs with her in a freshly planted peanut field. She can drop a litter in 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days and become pregnant within 2 weeks  of that. Im so sorry that isnt 50 a year its 36 wich is still nowhere close to 14.get you facts strait before you try to correct someone and yes i may be younger than most folks on here but that doesnt mean i cant count. I proved my point which proved you wrong. Get over it and get real




I guess you can count.  Apparently it is reasoning you have more trouble with.  

Sows in confinement operations will have two litters one year and three litters the next.   Usually, hog men consider it a good sow if she raises 7-8 pigs per litter.  That figures to 14 one year and 21-22 the next, if it is a real good sow.  Sows in the wild won't raise nearly that many pigs.  Remember, both in the wild and in commercial operations it isn't how many pigs the sow has, it is how many she actually raises that matters.

I don't doubt that you saw a sow with 12 pigs.   I doubt seriously that all 12 pigs belonged to that particular sow.  It isn't unusual for a sow to adopt another sows pigs if something happens to her.  On numerous occasions I have seen wild sows with as many as 20 pigs following.  Usually, there are a couple more sows that show up if you watch them long enough.   Also, I have seen wild sows with 8-10 pigs following  that were obviously from her last two litters.

Along with reasoning, you need to work on spelling, punctuation, and capitalization.   What grade are you in anyhow?


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> yep...saw two different trailers in our neck of the woods yesterday with live hogs in 'em....



Dont know who they were and dont really care but just because they were alive dont mean that they were gonna  let it out somewhere else.You said that you hunt right,if so then you know how long a hog will last in the heat.This time of the year you catch one and kill it then your hunt is over.


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

point is they were transporting the hogs and parked at a gas station showing them off...I transport them dead.


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

Point is did you ask if they were done?I dont think it is illegal to transport one anyway just to relocate without landowners permission.


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

nope...didn't ask them anything. I'd check on that if you transport....


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## sghoghunter (May 11, 2009)

hevishot said:


> nope...didn't ask them anything. I'd check on that if you transport....



So you just sit back and watched some one break the law then I guess.


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## redlevel (May 11, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> Point is did you ask if they were done?I dont think it is illegal to transport one anyway just to relocate without landowners permission.



(2) Georgia feral swine of any age moving within Georgia must test negative to an official 
brucellosis test and an official pseudorabies test within 30 days prior to movement, 
originate from a validated brucellosis free herd and a qualified pseudorabies free herd, or 
be moved directly to a state or federally approved slaughter establishment, to an approved 
hunting preserve, or to an approved swine slaughter sale. 
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/40/13/3/03.pdf

According to this, there are very specific conditions for those hogs to have been legally transported.   What do you want to bet they were technically in violation?


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## hevishot (May 11, 2009)

well, no...maybe they were transporting them legally.  Should I have asked to see their negative tests or what?....


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## Robk (May 11, 2009)

well, I'm about to head back out.  Don't have room to run the dogs but my rifle and the traps we have out are keeping them down.

Rob


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## gnarlyone (May 11, 2009)

*hog problems*

Hevishot...keep working at it grasshopper....one day it'll all come together.


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## gigem (May 11, 2009)

115 is wearing them out, I think we are at 76 this year. And i will promise you none of gnarlyones farmers are complaining and neither are mine..... But please yall gun hunters that do it at nite, Quit leaving the hogs in fields and edge of woods. I cant stand hunting a stunk up field behind yall. And you know who i am talking about. We almost couldnt tie that 230 pd pregnant sow we caught after the bay trials for gaging. Somebody will eat those hogs!


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## Six million dollar ham (May 11, 2009)

JAGER said:


> Pay particular attention to the farmer experiencing the crop damage. What do the farmer and the UGA County Extension agent believe is the solution to the problem?


I didn't memorize it word by word, but I get the impression the agent thinks planting something the hogs won't eat is a better idea.  The farmer thinks it's corn or nothing else, it would appear.  His highest yielding crop not working out, it's time for the government to solve the problem.  




JAGER said:


> More importantly, what do they feel is NOT the solution?


The farmer indicates the government has protected the hogs and caused the problem.  I don't understand that because hog regulations and farmers aren't what come to mind when I hear the term "restrictive".


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## Robk (May 11, 2009)

one less breeder this evening.


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## JAGER (May 12, 2009)

Robk said:


> I have a farmer near me that has had issues with hogs rooting up his soybean fields and pecan orchard. There were four more with her.  I brought my daughter's .243 to try it out but it's only a single shot.



I posted his quote here because I didn't want to hijack his thread with my observation and comment. As a hunter, I congratulate him for harvesting a gilt and filling his cooler. There will be one less hog rooting tonight due to his hard work and efforts. One is better than zero and every little bit helps.

However, the spirit of this thread was to share a farmer's (public media) "perception" of hunting/trapping and discuss ways to change or improve it. From the farmer's view, a 20% removal rate does very little to change their "perception" of hunters. This observation is in no way directed at Robk because I could have used any one of 100 different examples on this forum. His picture and quotes just happened to be here. The only way we are going to improve anything is to discuss it.

Let's use an example. Say you have five pregnant raccoons in your attic. They are damaging your fascia/soffit and keeping you up all night. How do you solve the problem? Do you call your neighbor who has a single live trap in his garage? Best case scenario is a 20% removal rate. Or do you call a professional who has demonstrated proficiency at removing an unlimited amount of raccoons from multiple attics? Most urban homeowners call a professional because they want the problem solved immediately and there are several wildlife control operators listed in the Yellow Pages. These professionals are motivated by business competition and must use the most efficient removal methods to survive.

Take this analogy and apply it to farming and feral hog control. How many hunters have the ability or the motivation to kill five hogs instead of one? What motivates the average hunter to own a semi-automatic rifle instead of a single shot or bolt action? What motivates the average hunter to become more effective if their freezer is already full? 

Since most hunters only do it for sport or fun, there is no motivation to change the farmer's "perception". I'm convinced there is only a handful of hunters and trappers in this state who are actually making a quantifiable difference to the hog population, killing 100+ per year. 

Albert Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. There are a large number of farmers in this state who desire better results, but don't know who to trust. In my opinion, the only way to improve future hog control results is to adapt new technologies, methods or strategies to make the average hunter more effective. 

I've got a few ideas to share in June after all the peanuts are planted. 

---JAGER


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## Wild Turkey (May 12, 2009)

Do the math.
A sow can have as many as 13 piglets per litter 4 times a year.
After a female piglet is 6 months old she can do the same.

Start with 1 boar and 1 sow on your property and span 1 year.
How many do you have with 60% sow to boar birth rate.

Throw in 20% mortality rate and lower litter numbers and the total at the 1st qtr of year 2 is huge.
killing/trapping 50 hogs a month dont even touch it.

The medical method is the only answer. Thermal hunters wont even make a dent.
Australian rabbits come to mind. They finally had to exterminate them chemically.


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## redlevel (May 12, 2009)

I hate to see the biological or "medical" method used.  I just don't think it would set a good precedent.  You might be right about that being the only way to eradicate them.

The truth is, high pressure dogging like gnarlyone is describing will remove a lot of hogs and eventually run them off your property.  It isn't a bad way to do it if you find someone you trust to allow on your property, someone who will not tear down fences, rut up fields, run over irrigation pipe, drive over planted fields, and will not come back uninvited with four friends next week.   Sobriety can also often be a challenge, and a landowner doesn't want a bunch of drunk hog doggers on his place.  Trust me.  It happens.  If all these criteria can be met, dogging isn't bad.

I believe the thermal hunts can be very effective over a period of time, probably more so than dogging, but there aren't that many people doing it.

All these folks pm-ing and posting to "just call me and my friends and let us hunt"  can't do you any good.  They might take out a few hogs, but wholesale slaughter/capture is what is needed.

The problem remains relocation.   Y'all all deny it, but you know that it gets done somewhere in Georgia every month, if not every weekend.  Maybe every night.   Some of you have bragged about it.   If you go way back to the first time Jager posted a year or so back, he alluded to the fact that a couple of states had completely stopped any kind of hog hunting because they determined (I'm sure with landowners input)  that hunters were actually doing more harm than good because of their relocating practices.    As landowners, we need to have a rule:  not a single hog will leave the farm alive.   If it is too hot to kill them, then keep them in the trailer until you are through, but they all die before that trailer leaves.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some other states, including Georgia, move to completely outlaw hog hunting because of the outlaws who are dumping hogs on private and public property.


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 12, 2009)

I read about 50% of the banter on here and i see a few people stating the obvious and the solutions and then i see people trying to come up with more than one reason why it will not work.  Obviously hunting and trapping has not worked to well so far or else farmers and such would not be in the position they are in now.   Hunting them at night when they are out int he fields the most seems to be the solution to me, but dogging those that are more wary seems to be a very good solution too.  Maybe hunting them at night AND dogging them on the same property would work the best.  Even then, other hogs will work through the area and settle because there is a food source available and no other hogs to get to it before them.  A property in SC that i hunt just about wiped the hogs off the place last fall during season.  We killed every single hog we saw and towards the end of the season, we were lucky to see one every two weeks, during the day or even tracks from overnight...but just last week i was talking to a fellow hunter who hunts that place for turkeys and he said the hogs were in there thick as ticks again.  Why??  Because there is no other competition and plenty of food.  

I am saving right now for a Gen 3 scope to replace the one i let my cousin use and break.  Once i do have enough to buy it, i will be asking farmers and such if i could get out in their fields and try to make some sort of a difference with a 223 and subsonic ammo...


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## sghoghunter (May 12, 2009)

Wild Turkey said:


> Do the math.
> A sow can have as many as 13 piglets per litter 4 times a year.
> After a female piglet is 6 months old she can do the same.
> 
> ...



Do the math cause you know nothing about pigs.


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## bduck (May 13, 2009)

*good lord...*

this isn't nothin but a bunch of ignorance.. this thread is no different from the other hundred that have been started by jager (intentions may have been different but the same things are being said) i found out many many interesting things over the weekend that puts some high standing sweet talking tongues credibility into question... regardless of the fact, this is a hog hunting section if all this crap needs to be discussed then there needs to be a section for methods of control or somethin cause this takes the fun out of a public board to have to sign on and look at this junk day after day... if the highlight of the day for you know it all professionals is to get on here so you can talk like a man behind a computer screen ya'll should really find somethin to do thats productive


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## hevishot (May 13, 2009)

bduck said:


> this isn't nothin but a bunch of ignorance.. this thread is no different from the other hundred that have been started by jager (intentions may have been different but the same things are being said) i found out many many interesting things over the weekend that puts some high standing sweet talking tongues credibility into question... regardless of the fact, this is a hog hunting section if all this crap needs to be discussed then there needs to be a section for methods of control or somethin cause this takes the fun out of a public board to have to sign on and look at this junk day after day... if the highlight of the day for you know it all professionals is to get on here so you can talk like a man behind a computer screen ya'll should really find somethin to do thats productive



man..that is some really insightful stuff...


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## SELFBOW (May 13, 2009)

hevishot said:


> man..that is some really insightful stuff...



I agree . He is right. I stated all along I felt Jagers methods were not suited for a hunting forum but somehwere else...


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## bigreddwon (May 13, 2009)

Yup, he puts his mighty scope to the ground and all the hogs die in a 3 mile radius.. no stalking , no need to worrie about the wind, or the 5 million freakin deer you have to sneek around to get to the pigs.. No hunting required.. 

 I put my deposit down months ago and cant wait to go huntin with Jager at the end of this month.


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## aaylworth (May 13, 2009)

Your petty bickering and insults are the reason we as a hunting community will continue to have a difficult time ever finding common ground.  One comment about relocating, pushing or driving hogs rather than irradicating the problem and we have to result to name calling.  Tell me exactly what you or your ego gains by insulting someone who disagrees that you, any of you or any strategy is the end all beat all approach to hog control.  
The fact the matter is there is obviously some debate as to how many hogs a single sow can produce in a given year.  So what.  The population continues to grow at a rate beyond your very impressive number of caught hogs.  To argue this would truely be ignorant by the words definition.
My addition to this post was to suggest that there is value in a cohesive response.  If we continue to argue and infight while Farmers, as a whole, continue to perceive any hunting as less than adequate or simply sport we will lose the support we need to continue the activity we do enjoy so much no matter what avenue we use to accomplish our hunt.
As a point of fact the GA Department of Natural Resources has this posted on their website.  "it is illegal to stock, move or release any hogs that are not certified to be disease-free according to the Georgia Department of Agricultural Standards."  Using this as the basis for law the transporting of any wild or ferral hog for any reason is illegal.  So sghoghunter what purpose would it have served for hevishot to engage the brggart hog haulers?  He would have been correct in his evaluation of the situation but would have no more changed the outcome than if he had asked them to obey the speed limit when the drove through town.       
For what it is worth I don't have all the answers.  I do find some amusement in the petty jossling for bragging rights largely on the part of the doggers but I'm not sure that a well managed trapping program wouldn't be able to net the 115 hogs in 5 months and Jagger has proven that he can net a far greater number than this in a shorter period of time.   So where does this ill founded supremacy lie that the only way to truely address the problem is a good dogger.  This will continue to serve those who would see us all put out in the cold when the time comes to truely address this as a problem and not a bragging right for an easily bruised and over sensative group of hunters.
Nope if we are to succeed as a group we will need to unite as a group.  This was the original point excercised by Jagger if I understood correctly his goal.  To see us as a community address the need for dramatic reduction in wild hog population without the involement of Government and to find individuals who truely represented a professional and comprehensive approach to hog control.
If the Government gets involved with their disdain for the non-indigeonus nuisance the result may be the complete inihilation of any population with a genuine posibility of truely negative effects on far more than hog hunting.  So I ask you again, if the Goverment gets involved what will you do with your precious dog when you have no more hogs to hunt?
Jagger was right.  For now it is up to us to find a way to truely control the probelm which is growing at a predigious rate.  It will require your egos set aside and a group effort to accomodate this need with a well managed and multifacited approach.  I hope he can sift through the name calling and back biting to find the professionals he is looking for before it is too late.


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## Robk (May 14, 2009)

aaylworth,
your right.  But a few holier than thou types here will quickly denegrate a legal method if they feel that it may take away from something they do.  


Oh, and Buckbacks, before you start calling Jager's method unethical.  Tell everyone how many turkeys you've wounded and lost in the past two seasons with your stick and string.  Don't cast stones in a glass house.


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## SELFBOW (May 14, 2009)

Robk said:


> aaylworth,
> your right.  But a few holier than thou types here will quickly denegrate a legal method if they feel that it may take away from something they do.
> 
> 
> Oh, and Buckbacks, before you start calling Jager's method unethical.  Tell everyone how many turkeys you've wounded and lost in the past two seasons with your stick and string.  Don't cast stones in a glass house.



I guess you have missed all the comments in other threads.
No where have I said Jager was unethical. No where have I said he was wrong. In Fact I said his services are needed to help farmers but constantly speaking of eradicating a species does not sit well with hunters. That's where my argument has been all along. His methods are not for hunting but for getting rid of a pest or a problem. He's the one who has tried to bring the hunters into his eradication program...
And the answer I wounded one last season that I didnt find. The other 2 were just feathers and 2 clean misses...Your point is?


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## ROOSTER HOGGER (May 14, 2009)

Please no more post like this un


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## PWalls (May 14, 2009)

Please stay on topic and leave the "feelings" out of it. Been a decent discussion so far. Let's keep it that way.


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## aaylworth (May 17, 2009)

I agree with you buckbacks.  The word eradicating suggests an unfamiliar and unwelcome reality to the true hunter who is one of the worlds greatest consevationists.  Having said that I think it is largely for the Farmer that Jager chooses that word.  He makes a decent living off the same hogs we enjoy hunting.  
On the other hand Farmers don't care for the word Conservation in conjunction with Hog problems.  Jagers walking a fine line but the truth is the Hog population is growing far faster than we can kill them.  Let him call it what he wants, he's only killing the ones in the field at night and he knows as well as you he can't get them all.  
This is why he's looking for help.  To change the perception of the Farmer and help control the population.


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## CAL (May 17, 2009)

*Ole Farmer*

Before we continue to keep knocking "ole farmer" about his perspective and not letting people hunt,look up the meaning of L I B I L I T Y please.This one word can put a man out of business over night.In an age of lawyers and "one call that's all",we farmers have to be real careful and sometimes this is not enough.Hogs may get a portion of the field but libility can get it all!People that own land understand this best!


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## redlevel (May 17, 2009)

aaylworth said:


> Conservation in conjunction with Hog problems.



Conservation should not be used in the same sentence with hogs.  You continue with the misconception that feral hogs are legitimate game animals worthy of conservation efforts.    Feral hogs are not a legitimate game species.  They are an introduced non-native species, and the only conservation efforts aimed at them should be eradication efforts so that legitimate, native game animals and habitat won't be harmed by them.


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

This one word can put a man out of business over night.In an age of lawyers and "one call that's all",we farmers have to be real careful and sometimes this is not enough.Hogs may get a portion of the field but libility can get it all!

Great Point.  We are our own worst enemies sometimes.  If everyone would stop looking for the quick buck the world would be a better place. 

Red level if we are going to talk erradication of a non native species, lets start poisoning the Yotes, Dynamite the Trout and the Stripers, and kill all of Hybrids in the lakes and streams of GA.  None  of these species are native.  

Now with that said how long does an animal have to live in this area before it becomes an established species.  As a transplant to GA I am wondering.  Hogs have been in this state longer than most of us have been alive.  Deer destroy a crop too.  In fact many of the deer in this state now are not native they came from Ohio.  So lets erradicate them too.  They destroy crops, they are non- native don't they meet the criteria? 

I thought these forums were about hunting, the very definition implies conservation.  If we are talking about getting Hunters together to improve our image I am for it.  If we are talking about erradicating a species Native or Non then try to find an exterminators forum.  Terminex.com might be for you. 

I don't believe Jager wants Hogs eradicated charging 550.00 a night 2 night minimum must be profitable for him I imagine if hogs were gone he would be out of business!


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

CAL said:


> Before we continue to keep knocking "ole farmer" about his perspective and not letting people hunt,look up the meaning of L I B I L I T Y please.This one word can put a man out of business over night.In an age of lawyers and "one call that's all",we farmers have to be real careful and sometimes this is not enough.Hogs may get a portion of the field but libility can get it all!People that own land understand this best!


Cal I could understand this if you have a place that is open to the public cause there is alwayes someone looking to get money the easiest way possable but what would you be liable for with a few guys huntn hogs?Only thing I see is that if one of your hogs gets me maybe that will work oh never mind I should be faster next time.All you have to do is let the few guys sign a waiver and that puts everything back on them,right?


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> Red level if we are going to talk erradication of a non native species



You left out one important word:
INVASIVE

Coyotes are fairly self controlling.   Rabies, parvo, etc goes through the population every few years and keep populations down.  I would have no problem whatsoever, however, with eradication of 'yotes, although I believe they probably do about as much good as harm for the small game populations by keeping the feral cat population in check.

I am not a fisherman, so I don't know the particulars about trout, stripers, and hybrids.   If they are not invasive, there is probably not a problem.  I do know from reading that there are several invasive species in Georgia streams and ponds that are causing enormous problems with the native populations.

For your edification, from the Georgia DNR:
http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/documentdetail.aspx?docid=203&pageid=1&category=fishing
Invasive Species - They Threaten Our Native Populations - Introduction

The future of sunfish fishing in Georgia mountain lakes is threatened following the illegal introduction of blueback herring by anglers.
Georgia's best smallmouth bass fishery was ruined by anglers who moved spotted bass from Lake Lanier to Lake Chatuge.
The popular redbreast sunfish and bullhead fisheries in the Altamaha River Basin were decimated by flathead catfish which were illegally introduced.


Do you by chance notice a common thread?  If not, I highlighted in red so you can see it easier.  All these problems were caused by so-called "sportsmen" engaging in illegal activities.


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> This one word can put a man out of business over night.In an age of lawyers and "one call that's all",we farmers have to be real careful and sometimes this is not enough.Hogs may get a portion of the field but libility can get it all!
> 
> Great Point.  We are our own worst enemies sometimes.  If everyone would stop looking for the quick buck the world would be a better place.
> 
> ...



just so its clear...you are a farmer affected by hogs?


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

Nope I am a *SPORTSMAN*, with an opinion (Just Like So many of You)who does not wish to eradicate any species.  I do not move animals I dot attempt to kill animals.  Like a farmer I harvest what the lord has placed on this earth for me to partake.
What I am is a man effected by bad opinions, bad ideas, and bad perceptions.  That Hunters are just out to KILL and destroy property and get drunk and leave trash all over another mans land.  
Lets be honest SO CALLED SPORTSMAN do more damge to a tract of land tha  HOGS do.


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> Hogs have been in this state longer than most of us have been alive.



I roamed and hunted all over Taylor County beginning in the middle 1950s until the present.  My family owns property in the middle of the county and in the southern part of the county.   I hunted quail on the Flint River in the north and eastern part of the county, and was hunting quail, doves, and predators in the western extreme 45 years ago.  

THERE WERE NO FERAL HOGS IN TAYLOR COUNTY UNTIL DEER HUNTERS RELEASED THEM IN THE EARLY 1970S.

Hogs ran loose in Georgia until enclosure laws were passed, some as early as the 1890s, statewide in the 1920s and 1930s.  At least in Taylor County, there were no free roaming hogs by the 1950s.  Hogs that escaped confinement were quickly caught, or became table fare for tenant farmers.

As far as this being a hunting forum, I will continue to point out that feral hogs aren't recognized as game animals in Georgia, that they are a non-native INVASIVE species that threatens practically all native game species in Georgia, and that illegal activity by so-called "sportsmen" is the reason they exist.   I will point out obvious misrepresentation of facts, and outright false statements.   I will continue to point out that any discussion of "management" in relation to hogs isn't part of a legitimate discussion of an invasive species, unless the goal of that particular "management" plan is eradication.    When someone tries to legitimize hogs as a game species, I will point out the error in that position.


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

good deal..you had said "we farmers" so I was just curious as to how much of a problem hogs had been to you.  I believe your opinion might be a bit different if that were the case.


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## SELFBOW (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Conservation should not be used in the same sentence with hogs.  You continue with the misconception that feral hogs are legitimate game animals worthy of conservation efforts.    Feral hogs are not a legitimate game species.  They are an introduced non-native species, and the only conservation efforts aimed at them should be eradication efforts so that legitimate, native game animals and habitat won't be harmed by them.



This is an issue that gets me...
What ONE animal do you see advertised for hunting purposes the MOST in this state?
Just look in your GON and you will see HOGS are the #1 advertised animal to hunt.
They are a money maker in this state more so than any deer or turkey and that's why hunters are taking OFFENSE to this speak of eradication on a hunting forum.

I have often wondered why the local conservationist and camo coalition members have not chimed in on this issue...


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> This is an issue that gets me...
> What ONE animal do you see advertised for hunting purposes the MOST in this state?
> Just look in your GON and you will see HOGS are the #1 advertised animal to hunt.
> They are a money maker in this state more so than any deer or turkey and that's why hunters are taking OFFENSE to this speak of eradication on a hunting forum.
> ...



so do you just like hunting them or do you have to contend with the damage they do to your own property..again, not your hunting lease.....


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> This is an issue that gets me...
> What ONE animal do you see advertised for hunting purposes the MOST in this state?
> Just look in your GON and you will see HOGS are the #1 advertised animal to hunt.
> They are a money maker in this state more so than any deer or turkey and that's why hunters are taking OFFENSE to this speak of eradication on a hunting forum.
> ...



You think the fact that it is a money-making enterprise legitimizes something?

I believe I will look into raising opium poppies on my place.   I understand one can make a lot of money doing that.  

That makes it ok, I guess.


As far as conservationists chiming in,  any real, sure-enough conservationist, I mean someone trained in some facet of wildlife biology, knows that feral hogs are a scourge on the earth.


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## bigreddwon (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> This is an issue that gets me...
> What ONE animal do you see advertised for hunting purposes the MOST in this state?
> Just look in your GON and you will see HOGS are the #1 advertised animal to hunt.
> They are a money maker in this state more so than any deer or turkey and that's why hunters are taking OFFENSE to this speak of eradication on a hunting forum.
> ...




 Maybe they havent 'chimed' in cause hogs EAT EVERYTHING else in GA they are trying to 'conserve?' What they dont outright 'eat', they destrroy the habitat of..?

 With the fact that SO many familys depend on hogs for an income from hunting, isnt it sad that GA could be looking at losing the right to hunt them because of ignorant people who JUST DONT GET IT, and keep moving them around? I wonder how many guys got put outta biz in Kansas when they outlawed hunting hogs? 

Also, Jager talks about hog 'controll', not eradication, as Ive read several times he states they WONT be eradicated because of where they live within the state..


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> This is an issue that gets me...
> What ONE animal do you see advertised for hunting purposes the MOST in this state?
> Just look in your GON and you will see HOGS are the #1 advertised animal to hunt.
> They are a money maker in this state more so than any deer or turkey and that's why hunters are taking OFFENSE to this speak of eradication on a hunting forum.
> ...



Hmmm...economic impact in Georgia...Hog hunting VS AGRICULTURE...


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## SELFBOW (May 18, 2009)

bigreddwon said:


> Maybe they havent 'chimed' in cause hogs EAT EVERYTHING else in GA they are trying to 'conserve?' What they dont outright 'eat', they destrroy the habitat of..?
> 
> With the fact that SO many familys depend on hogs for an income from hunting, isnt it sad that GA could be looking at losing the right to hunt them because of ignorant people who JUST DONT GET IT, and keep moving them around? I wonder how many guys got put outta biz in Kansas when they outlawed hunting hogs?
> 
> Also, Jager talks about hog 'controll', not eradication, as Ive read several times he states they WONT be eradicated because of where they live within the state..



Don't blame all your problems on relocation. That is not the biggest problem.


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## bigreddwon (May 18, 2009)

Buckbacks.. Your 100% wrong. It IS the biggest problem, with  total and complete ignorance commin in a close second...


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

Gentlemen, Gentlemen I did not intend for this to become an argument my sole intention was to point out the difference between a Hunter/Sportsman vs. Criminal breaking laws (no matter how minor they may be)  I have seen many posts on here mentioning that HUNTERS will not solve the problem as long as they keep relocating Hogs.  I would like to see the two groups deliniated.  Hunters asnd those that transport hogs (illeagally).  
I am a Hunter I like to hunt Hogs.  Erradication is a term I do not use loosely with any animal.  Game species or otherwise.  
To Farmers I meant no disrespect or insult.  I appreciate farmers.  The only comment I made about farmers was thast someone else had made a good point about liability because of again SO called Sportsman Suing.  
I understand the farmers plight.  I do own land in Middle GA, I do suffer minor Hog damage.  (Not my livelyhood) 
I did not attack Jager either I merely said I do not beleive that he does not want Hogs erradicated as he makes a good living hunting them.  
I do not want to see The Goverment handling anything Especially if it is going to remove my ability to hunt.  I do not trust the government to manage a sandbox nevermind the Hunting Habitat that I enjoy in GA.  If the problem is so bad that the Govt has to get involved then maybe we need to exam other methods of control.  
If farmers were to open their property to hunting even for a small fee instead of shutting out hunters that may help the situation.  IMHO.  When I was young the corn farmer charged 10.00 for a Dove permit.  It kept the riff raff out and he had the farm hands on 4 wheelers keeping an eye on things if they found someone breaking the rules they got tossed.  Liability being what it is today I am not sure if this would be feasable.  I am not an insurance man either.  I just know from what I am reading here that the problem is not being controlled and I am seeing alot of hurt feelings and raised tempers among people who all share a common interest. HUNTING.  I beleive the idea here was to put our heads together and try to agree on a strategy to change our perception in the eyes of the farmer.  SO far this has eroded into a mudslinging fest.  My way to hunt is better than yours, I caught 3,000 hogs last night see my way is better Hogs are the devil, no they are not! and so on.  
"Can't we all just get along"  Seriously lets work together to *change* perceptions not make them worse.


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> Gentlemen, Gentlemen I did not intend for this to become an argument my sole intention was to point out the difference between a Hunter/Sportsman vs. Criminal breaking laws (no matter how minor they may be)  I have seen many posts on here mentioning that HUNTERS will not solve the problem as long as they keep relocating Hogs.  I would like to see the two groups deliniated.  Hunters asnd those that transport hogs (illeagally).
> I am a Hunter I like to hunt Hogs.  Erradication is a term I do not use loosely with any animal.  Game species or otherwise.
> To Farmers I meant no disrespect or insult.  I appreciate farmers.  The only comment I made about farmers was thast someone else had made a good point about liability because of again SO called Sportsman Suing.
> I understand the farmers plight.  I do own land in Middle GA, I do suffer minor Hog damage.  (Not my livelyhood)
> ...



Raven if ya cant already tell there are a few that will argue about anything.


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> I do not want to see The Goverment handling anything Especially if it is going to remove my ability to hunt.  I do not trust the government to manage a sandbox nevermind the Hunting Habitat that I enjoy in GA.



Let's do away with seasons and bag limits.  After all, they are just government intrusion into our rights as hunters.  Game would then belong not to the state, but to the landowner.  I am all for anything that increases property rights.  I wouldn't have to worry about the deer eating my peas or the hawks eating my quail, because with the government out of the way, those two particular species would truly become endangered on my place.

Sounds good to me.  Get the government out of hunting and game management altogether.


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Let's do away with seasons and bag limits.  After all, they are just government intrusion into our rights as hunters.  Game would then belong not to the state, but to the landowner.  I am all for anything that increases property rights.  I wouldn't have to worry about the deer eating my peas or the hawks eating my quail, because with the government out of the way, those two particular species would truly become endangered on my place.
> 
> Sounds good to me.  Get the government out of hunting and game management altogether.


You really will argue about anything are you sure your a farmer not a Lawyer!  I was making a point about the govt taking over the right to control Hog conservation through chemical castration or poisons...The world has enough lawyers picking apart what others say.  Are you sure you are even a hunter The way you stir a pot seems to me you could be a baker


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

See what Im talkn bout


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> See what Im talkn bout



must be easier to just make posts like this than to state facts and your position as it pertains to hogs...course then you would be accused of stirring the pot.


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

Didnt think it would take long for another one to chime in


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## JAGER (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> If the problem is so bad that the Govt has to get involved then maybe we need to exam other methods of control... Seriously lets work together to *change* perceptions not make them worse.



The Georgia Department of Natural Resources is giving hunters every available opportunity to solve the problem with no closed season and no bag limit. Georgia and Texas are the only two states smart enough to allow hunters the ability to legally hunt hogs at night with infrared equipment. 

One of the major problems (besides relocation) lies with many hunters inability or refusal to harvest more animals. First, hunters must recognize and admit there is a problem before attitudes and methods change. There is only a handful of hunters and trappers in this state who are actually making a quantifiable difference to the hog population. It will take more than a handful to change "perceptions".  

Feral hogs will never be eradicated in our state via hunting or trapping. Our challenge is to effectively CONTROL them to the point where agricultural damage is minimal before a politician, USDA office, state law or sodium nitrite baits negatively affect hog hunting in the future. As hunters, we can voluntarily raise our harvest numbers NOW or lose our ability to make a decision LATER. The ball is in our court. 

---JAGER


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> You really will argue about anything are you sure your a farmer not a Lawyer!  I was making a point about the govt taking over the right to control Hog conservation through chemical castration or poisons...The world has enough lawyers picking apart what others say.  Are you sure you are even a hunter The way you stir a pot seems to me you could be a baker




Are you really trying to say that I should know that you know what it is you are saying, but that I should also know that what you are really saying isn't actually what you think you really mean?

In two different posts I have made what I think are logical conclusions based on what you have said.   Both times, you have said that what I construed from your posts was wrong.

You implied or stated outright:

1.  That hogs are worthy of management, not eradication efforts, that indeed, hogs are no different from striped bass, trout, or hybrid bass, and that deer are comparable to hogs.


2.  That you don't think the government should be involved in hunting, conservation, and game management because you don't trust the government to handle these matters.   In fact, you didn't say a word about chemical castration or poisons.  I think you just thought about that after the fact.


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

You know where my position stands.I hunt hogs with dogs and will shoot one if I get a chance too.I also do not kill anything unless someone will take the kill.I also help farmers out with their hog problem as but mostly love hunting with dogs for the thrill.Just look back at some of the pics that me and my friends post of hogs and then look back at your pics that has been posted and see who has the most.Quit whining about the hog problem and get out and help and also take a pic cause with no pic it never happened.


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Are you really trying to say that I should know that you know what it is you are saying, but that I should also know that what you are really saying isn't actually what you think you really mean?
> 
> In two different posts I have made what I think are logical conclusions based on what you have said.   Both times, you have said that what I construed from your posts was wrong.
> 
> ...


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

I have no desire to post pics of hogs..kinda goes with not having the need for a sticker that proclaims I've got balls because I can tie a hog....guess I take pride in other things besides my ability to catch hogs....


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

Well I have read ALL the posts in this chat.  I have read several times in the posts 
1. That the Government is going to take control of HOG hunting in GA Jager stated it again recently.  
2.  That things like poisons and Chemical castration would be the methods used. 
3. What I said was Striped Bass, Hybrid Bass (hybrid being Stiped and Largemouth Hybrids) and Trout are NOT natrive to this state.  As a commentary to your argument that hogs have no place in this state.  If you are going to try to use my words then use the whole POst not just an excerpt.  Now I am starting to think that you may be a reporter also.  
What I am sayinging is that if you read my whole post you will see where my basis for argument is going.  You are obvioiously an angry litle man with little ideas.  Your answer to every problem appears to be eradicate it.  As you you said in your post "they truely wuld be and endangered species" These are not the ideals that I was rasied up with as a sportman.  Every animal GOD has placed on this earth has a place (right next to the veggies and potatoes).  No seriously.  You may be a part of the problem that Anti Hunters cite when they argue against hunting.


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

hevishot said:


> I have no desire to post pics of hogs..kinda goes with not having the need for a sticker that proclaims I've got balls because I can tie a hog....guess I take pride in other things besides my ability to catch hogs....



First of all I dont have a sticker like that but wish I did just saw it on a web site.I also take pride in other thing for sure one and thats to help out farmers with there problem instead of whining on here about how damage a hog done last night.


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> First of all I dont have a sticker like that but wish I did just saw it on a web site.I also take pride in other thing for sure one and thats to help out farmers with there problem instead of whining on here about how damage a hog done last night.



I THINK I can make out what you are saying.....keep up the good work.


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> You are obvioiously an angry litle man



Wrong again!


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Wrong again!



Redlevel get ur hands out ya pocket and stand up strait


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## bigreddwon (May 18, 2009)

lol..

 Redlevel, and raven, you 2 arent that far off from one another , you both agree hunters need to to all get on the same page .. Dontcha?


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## sghoghunter (May 18, 2009)

What do you beleive bigredwon


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## bigreddwon (May 18, 2009)

I belive that a 'few' hog doggers are giving the hog hunting community a bad name, and  non "hog dog' hunters are grouped in there wether they like it or not. They have more 'reasons' to move live hogs around than Carters got pills, and frankly, nobody but them cares about their reasons.. I want to see dead hogs, not live ones in cages on trucks, and if im not missing the whole point of Jagers post... SO DO FARMERS and landowners who currently DONT LET HUNTERS on their property..

 I belive that hogs running around un 'controlled' the way they are at present means LESS native game for everyone else to not only 'hunt', but make a living on selling quail/deer/turkey hunts..


 What do YOU belive sghoghunter?


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

Well I started out with the intent that I would like to see SPORTSMAN/HUNTERS take the lead on this and find ways that we can help each other and the farmers without making emflamatory statements about eradication.  Appearently though if I don't speak real slowly and spell everything out exactly then my statements are taken from context and not put in perspective with everything else that has been said on this line.  
With that said let me clarify again when I said angry little man I was not refering to your stature (body size) I was refering to your thinking as being small minded and Thank You for Proving me correct by sending a photo of yourself.
"Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you are an idoit than to open it and remove all doubt."


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> "Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you are an idoit(sic) than to open it and remove all doubt."


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Somebody tell me, could calling someone "an angry litle (sic) man with little ideas,"   and implying that he is "an idoit (sic)"  be construed as a personal attack?

Or am I just taking his statements out of context?

I have not resorted to name calling.  All I have done is to comment on logical interpretations of statements you have made.

Only an "angry little man" who runs out of ideas resorts to name calling.


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## CAL (May 18, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> Cal I could understand this if you have a place that is open to the public cause there is alwayes someone looking to get money the easiest way possable but what would you be liable for with a few guys huntn hogs?Only thing I see is that if one of your hogs gets me maybe that will work oh never mind I should be faster next time.All you have to do is let the few guys sign a waiver and that puts everything back on them,right?



Hunter,All you have to do is get hurt on another mans property and prove it was negilence on the owners part and you can win in court.Happens all the time!I can't take the chance!


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

Once again, this thread will probably be closed because of personal attacks aimed at someone who tries to present a coherent argument against the culture of worship of a destructive species.  

And just for the record:  I have probably lost 40 lbs since that picture was made.    I'm still a big old boy, though.


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## REDMOND1858 (May 18, 2009)

JAGER said:


> Feral hogs will never be eradicated in our state via hunting or trapping. Our challenge is to effectively CONTROL them to the point where agricultural damage is minimal before a politician, USDA office, state law or sodium nitrite baits negatively affect hog hunting in the future. As hunters, we can voluntarily raise our harvest numbers NOW or lose our ability to make a decision LATER. The ball is in our court.
> 
> ---JAGER




very well said jager. i took 2 of the biggest farmers/landowners in dooly county hog huntin with dogs friday night. 5 minutes after turned out the 1st time we were tying one up got the dogs off and on another one. we ended the night with 4 and they loved every minute of it. the farmers were very happy and said since i started hunting their land about 2 months ago they have seen a huge difference in the amount of damage the hogs have done. i aint saying i can control them all but if everyone comes together and hunt them instead of arguing about it then we CAN make a difference. i have  always hunted for the thrill of the hunt and still do but after seeing how happy the farmers were after we caught those 4 its alot more than just the thrill now, its about helpin the person that feeds you and helping "CONTROL" THE POPULATION


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

I'll drink to that, redmond..good post.


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## CAL (May 18, 2009)

hevishot said:


> good deal..you had said "we farmers" so I was just curious as to how much of a problem hogs had been to you.  I believe your opinion might be a bit different if that were the case.



Well,the local feral hogs are rooting up the woods behind my house less than 30 yds.To me that is a problem!I can also provide pictures of the fields growing wheat with large rooted up places just waiting for a combine with a load of grain in it to hit one and possibly break something or bend something to keep it from doing a good job and costing money to repair.People who are not care takers of the land and use the land for a living just don't understand how bad the hogs are once they get them.


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

I agree 100% Cal, if you only want them around for the "sport" and they don't affect your land etc...then folks will never get it because they have nothing "invested"...


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## Raven10475 (May 18, 2009)

Amen Redmond
Cal that is a point I had not heard beore and well said.  
I am all for helping to control the problem.


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## Medicine Man (May 18, 2009)

If you owned your property and they had completely destroyed it, you may feel a little differnt about wild hogs . If I had a button to mash and do away with them completely, I would do it. But that can't happen so ya'll have at the .


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 18, 2009)

CAL said:


> Hunter,All you have to do is get hurt on another mans property and prove it was negilence on the owners part and you can win in court.Happens all the time!I can't take the chance!



Taking a chance with someone getting hurt on your property is pretty costly if your on the short end of a law suit.  Someone sued me once for a large sum of money one summer because he flipped his ATV on one of my logging roads after it washed out.  In the end, i was lucky that my lawyer pointed out that the place was legally posted and confirmed by the local Environmental Conservation Officer, and that the man who filed the law suit was charged and convicted of trespassing on my property the year before for deer hunting without permission.   Still, i paid 1200 dollars for my lawyers services.  Now, people who hunt my place which is very few, sign a waiver that will hold in court because i can face reality and know that in order to have big bucks, i need someone to shoot a few doe and bear every year.  Lots of people ask permission but my waiver was drafted by an excellent lawyer and it would most likely hold up in court.  For 400 dollars, people can take the doe and bear i need taken and i can hunt some excellent bucks.  It's my land, but like food plots, equipment and so on, sometimes you need to shell out money in other areas to enjoy the bounty found on your property.  The same goes for farmers in some cases....


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Wrong again!



Redlevel, you are still wearing them overalls!!!  You ever take them off??

You were wearing overalls when i met you as well.  Reminded me alot of home!!


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## Medicine Man (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> Nope I am a *SPORTSMAN*, Lets be honest SO CALLED SPORTSMAN do more damge to a tract of land tha  HOGS do.



Wow remind me not to allow you around my place # 1.And #2 I have never disagreed more with this statement.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 18, 2009)

Raven10475 said:


> You really will argue about anything are you sure your a farmer not a Lawyer!  I was making a point about the govt taking over the right to control Hog conservation through chemical castration or poisons...The world has enough lawyers picking apart what others say.  Are you sure you are even a hunter The way you stir a pot seems to me you could be a baker



REDLEVEL

Up here in the state where I live the hog population is ALOT less than yours. Therefore, I can not appreciate your distaste for hogs. I would gladly come down to Taylor County and hunt your farm for hogs only, and also get educated in how hogs are destroying farms.

If you will give me a place to hunt hogs and educate me, then I will be happy to take some of them off your hands. I know with you being a farmer you can appreciate a hunter willing to help you by taking vermin off your hands....

Just PM me and let me know when I can come help you (hunt) your hogs to help your crops and the citizens/farmers of Taylor County...


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

11P&YBOWHUNTER said:


> Redlevel, you are still wearing them overalls!!!  You ever take them off??
> 
> You were wearing overalls when i met you as well.  Reminded me alot of home!!



I don't think I was wearing them then!  I was on my way to Savannah, wasn't I?  I know for a fact that I was wearing khakis that day, because my wife was with me.  She wouldn't have let me wear overalls to check in to that fancy hotel on Hutchinson Island.  What is it, the Westin?

I think you just thought I looked like I _should_ have been wearing overalls.


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## JAGER (May 18, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> i have always hunted for the thrill of the hunt and still do but after seeing how happy the farmers were after we caught those 4 its alot more than just the thrill now, its about helpin the person that feeds you and helping "CONTROL" THE POPULATION



Good post Redmond. You have identified the key to our (all hunters) future success. The more hogs you kill, the better your reputation. The better your reputation, the more farms you will be allowed to hunt. The more farms you hunt, the more hogs you kill. The circle continues... This is how we change our perception within the farming community.

One of the major problems (besides relocation) lies with many hunters inability or refusal to harvest more animals. First, hunters must recognize and admit there is a problem before attitudes and methods change to increase future harvest numbers.

Second, the hunters loyalty must be with the farmer. The number of hogs to be eaten should not be the determining factor of how many hogs are actually killed. The goal is to solve the farmer's crop damage problem. Even high-volume removal methods will only solve the problem for a few months until another group of hogs moves down the creek or river system to cause future crop damage.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hunting for "sport" a few weekends per month or hunting just to hear the dogs work. Leases and WMAs are full of weekend "sport" hunters. But solving a farmer's hog problem is a year-round job which takes considerable time, effort and skill. Georgia farmer's are NOT looking for "sport" hunters. They are looking for competent hunters and trappers who are committed to investing the time and resources needed to solve their problem. 

I'm proud of young Redmond for understanding the importance of helping farmers while still enjoying the thrill of the hunt. I'd be willing to bet another great dogger (gnarlyone) had some positive influence on the situation. Effective hunters and trappers usually have all the real estate they can handle. There is only so much they can efficiently manage or control. Our challenge is to train more hunters and trappers to be just as effective. 

---JAGER


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 18, 2009)

redlevel said:


> I don't think I was wearing them then!  I was on my way to Savannah, wasn't I?  I know for a fact that I was wearing khakis that day, because my wife was with me.  She wouldn't have let me wear overalls to check in to that fancy hotel on Hutchinson Island.  What is it, the Westin?
> 
> I think you just thought I looked like I _should_ have been wearing overalls.



Ooops, I had you mistaken for someone else.  That's right, we met just off 16 one time.  I met the other guy at Bass Pro.  

Now that I think of it, you look more comfortable in overalls!!!


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## SELFBOW (May 18, 2009)

JAGER said:


> Good post Redmond. You have identified the key to our (all hunters) future success. The more hogs you kill, the better your reputation. The better your reputation, the more farms you will be allowed to hunt. The more farms you hunt, the more hogs you kill. The circle continues... This is how we change our perception within the farming community.
> 
> One of the major problems (besides relocation) lies with many hunters inability or refusal to harvest more animals. First, hunters must recognize and admit there is a problem before attitudes and methods change to increase future harvest numbers.
> 
> ...



Alot of this goes againsnt everything we were raised on. I was taught as a child that if I killed a bird with my bb gun I was gonna clean it and eat it.
I was taught to keep only enough fish to eat and so on.
Thats why when the term eradication/ leave em in the field is thrown out there it is a little bit of a culture shock.
If most sportsman were taught to "conserve" how will you ever sway us differently?
I certainly do not want to teach my 11 yr old who killed 5 hogs last year that it is ok to kill them just to kill them.
Is that what you want? The future hunters of this state to be taught it is ok to kill animals and let them rot? You know it would not stop just with hogs, they would kill other animals as well since their brain says "Its OK"


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## Robk (May 18, 2009)

offering assistance that may help gets me more access to lands to hunt other species.  Right now I have over 3000 acres here that I get to hog hunt for offering to kill and remove both geese(when in season) and hogs.  Glad I have a big freezer and love eating them.

Both of them can be very destructive in thier own right.  While "total" eradication is impossible, reduction helps out quite a bit.

R


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## redlevel (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> Alot of this goes againsnt everything we were raised on. I was taught as a child that if I killed a bird with my bb gun I was gonna clean it and eat it.
> I was taught to keep only enough fish to eat and so on.
> Thats why when the term eradication/ leave em in the field is thrown out there it is a little bit of a culture shock.
> If most sportsman were taught to "conserve" how will you ever sway us differently?
> ...




You are mistaking hogs for game animals.   Hunting ethics does not apply to hogs any more than they do to house flies, roaches, or wharf rats.   Feral hogs are vermin, not game animals.  

Every time you make a post trying to equate feral hogs to game animals, and try to inject an "ethics" factor, then I will make one reminding you that you are wrong, and that every state game and fish agency that I know anything about recognizes this.

Many of the so-called "sportsmen" you refer to are game violators of the worst sort because they are/were involved in relocation and release of feral hogs so they could run them with dogs.   

If you want to talk about ethics and conservation, then there is where you should be addressing your concerns.

I have been hunting in Georgia for 50-plus years, and I know a thing or two about ethics and conservation.  I know that feral hogs are absolutely the worst scourge that has been visited on the Georgia outdoors.   That includes coyotes, fire ants, and armadillos, none of which were here (Taylor County) fifty years ago.


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## JAGER (May 18, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> I have practically begged farmers to let me hunt their hogs, and no one will allow this. I have never been hog hunting, but would love to have someplace to go. I along with my father are both in the law enforcement community, we obey all game laws, and obey land owners wishes and requests - but still farmers will not let us or Anyone else hunt.
> 
> Some farmers bring the problem to themselves being tight and not allowing anyone on their land - even folks who mean well...





dadsbuckshot said:


> If you will give me a place to hunt hogs and educate me, then I will be happy to take some of them off your hands. I know with you being a farmer you can appreciate a hunter willing to help you by taking vermin off your hands...





JAGER said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with hunting for "sport" a few weekends per month or hunting just to hear the dogs work. Leases and WMAs are full of weekend "sport" hunters. But solving a farmer's hog problem is a year-round job which takes considerable time, effort and skill. Georgia farmer's are NOT looking for "sport" hunters. They are looking for competent hunters and trappers who are committed to investing the time and resources needed to solve their problem.



I captured his (dadsbuckshot) quote here because I would like to make a comment and hopefully a point. As a hunter, I congratulate him for wanting to help (Redlevel) solve his feral hog problem. However, the spirit of this thread was to share a farmer's (public media) "perception" of hunting/trapping and discuss ways to change or improve it. 

From the farmer's view, a novice, traditional daytime hunter does very little to change their "perception" of hunters. This observation is in no way directed at dadsbuckshot because I could have used several different examples on this forum. His quote just happened to be here. The only way we are going to improve anything is to discuss it.

Every week, we see hunters posting a new thread asking if anyone has a place for them to hunt hogs. Yet, no one ever answers them with a legitimate place. Why? Because most farmers realize traditional, daytime hunting methods are incapable of killing big numbers to effectively manage populations. It is safe to say many hunters who read this forum are looking for another place to hunt hogs. But most hunters are only a liability, not an asset to the farmer.

As a hunter, what do you bring to the table which makes you an asset to the farmer? If the answer is a bolt action rifle and determination, stand in line with everyone else. The farmer already observed the results produced by those tools and he was not impressed. Remember the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 

The key to being an asset is producing better results. Mr. Redmond (earlier post) impressed his farmers by killing four hogs in one night. What would be the farmer's perception of hunters/trappers if we produced three or four dead hogs per outing? Better than it is now? You bet. 

How do you produce these results? By thinking outside the box. What are your strengths? Let me use dadsbuckshot as an example. He might be a novice hog hunter, but he and his father are veterans in the law enforcement community. Maybe some experience in surveillance or semi-automatic weapons. How often do you think law enforcement sniper teams get to practice on live targets, day or night? It sounds like a win-win situation to provide real world cross-training training experience and solve the farmer's problem at the same time. 

I've got a few specific ideas to share in June after all the peanuts are planted.

---JAGER


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## JAGER (May 18, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> If most sportsman were taught to "conserve" how will you ever sway us differently? Is that what you want? The future hunters of this state to be taught it is ok to kill animals and let them rot?



It is perfectly legal to kill invasive species such as hogs in unlimited numbers. It is why state wildlife biologists and the DNR give hunters every available opportunity to solve the problem with no closed season and no bag limit. I would never condone killing a legitimate game species just to let it rot.

What do you think happens to the hundreds of hog carcasses killed in Texas from aerial gunning missions? 

What do think will happen to thousands of hog carcasses if sodium nitrite baits are approved in the United States?



buckbacks said:


> I certainly do not want to teach my 11 yr old who killed 5 hogs last year that it is ok to kill them just to kill them.



My advice is to teach him the GA DNR hunting regulation and the difference between an invasive species and a legal game species. If hunters don't change the way they approach feral hog control today, your son might not have a choice in the future.

---JAGER


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## SELFBOW (May 18, 2009)

I hunt deer over bait in SC which is perfectly legal but I've been told a thousand times on here just cause it's legal, don't make it right!

You need to find someone who has a true dislike for hogs or someone who just likes to kill for the kill only.
Its gonna be hard to convince  sportsman to help control it like you want. I kill hogs when I have the chance. My family took 12 last year. 
Maybe the question should be "How many are interested in killin as many as possible?"

Jager you speak of the future, you know hogs are everywhere not just farmland. Is the government wanting to take control of it everywhere? Are they gonna go to the refuges and the wmas and take them out? Are they gonna come on all private land to kill them? 
We all know hunters can't control them because we kill only what we can keep. We are not wasteful and you are trying to tell us to change the way we were raised.


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## REDMOND1858 (May 18, 2009)

JAGER said:


> My advice is to teach him the GA DNR hunting regulation and the difference between an invasive species and a legal game species. If hunters don't change the way they approach feral hog control today, your son might not have a choice in the future.
> 
> ---JAGER



i understand what you are saying bucksback i was raised that way to and try to practice the method of eat what you kill. and im sure i was raised like that because thats what my grandparents taught my parents, but when they were coming up they didnt have to worry about a pack of hogs coming through their field and wiping out half their crop....its different then it was 20 years ago hogs are alot bigger problem now and have to be controled by whatever means possible so that we can keep our sport, as jager said. i hate seeing good meat go to waste as much as you but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do to keep them from doing more damage than they already are. you should teach your son eat what you kill just as my dad did me, but also teach him that unfortunatly in some situations it is necessary to kill as many as you can. im sure most the farmers around here today were raised the same as me and you but ask their opinion and im sure they will say the same.


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## hevishot (May 18, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> i understand what you are saying bucksback i was raised that way to and try to practice the method of eat what you kill. and im sure i was raised like that because thats what my grandparents taught my parents, but when they were coming up they didnt have to worry about a pack of hogs coming through their field and wiping out half their crop....its different then it was 20 years ago hogs are alot bigger problem now and have to be controled by whatever means possible so that we can keep our sport, as jager said. i hate seeing good meat go to waste as much as you but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do to keep them from doing more damage than they already are. you should teach your son eat what you kill just as my dad did me, but also teach him that unfortunatly in some situations it is necessary to kill as many as you can. im sure most the farmers around here today were raised the same as me and you but ask their opinion and im sure they will say the same.



you are absolutely right....


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## bigreddwon (May 18, 2009)

REDMOND1858 said:


> i understand what you are saying bucksback i was raised that way to and try to practice the method of eat what you kill. and im sure i was raised like that because thats what my grandparents taught my parents, but when they were coming up they didnt have to worry about a pack of hogs coming through their field and wiping out half their crop....its different then it was 20 years ago hogs are alot bigger problem now and have to be controled by whatever means possible so that we can keep our sport, as jager said. i hate seeing good meat go to waste as much as you but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do to keep them from doing more damage than they already are. you should teach your son eat what you kill just as my dad did me, but also teach him that unfortunatly in some situations it is necessary to kill as many as you can. im sure most the farmers around here today were raised the same as me and you but ask their opinion and im sure they will say the same.




 Well said


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## gigem (May 18, 2009)

*hogs*



redlevel said:


> You are mistaking hogs for game animals.   Hunting ethics does not apply to hogs any more than they do to house flies, roaches, or wharf rats.   Feral hogs are vermin, not game animals.
> 
> Every time you make a post trying to equate feral hogs to game animals, and try to inject an "ethics" factor, then I will make one reminding you that you are wrong, and that every state game and fish agency that I know anything about recognizes this.
> 
> ...


You have lost you it.The reason we cant properly manage land and ponds are because of the people like you and the dnr that go by what yall here and read, and not by day to day activity.Show me dont tell me.


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## dadsbuckshot (May 19, 2009)

JAGER said:


> I captured his (dadsbuckshot) quote here because I would like to make a comment and hopefully a point. As a hunter, I congratulate him for wanting to help (Redlevel) solve his feral hog problem. However, the spirit of this thread was to share a farmer's (public media) "perception" of hunting/trapping and discuss ways to change or improve it.
> 
> From the farmer's view, a novice, traditional daytime hunter does very little to change their "perception" of hunters. This observation is in no way directed at dadsbuckshot because I could have used several different examples on this forum. His quote just happened to be here. The only way we are going to improve anything is to discuss it.
> 
> ...



Jager and Redlevel,

Gentlemen I would like to offer an appology to you both for the comments I have made on this thread and the other regarding the free meat. After reading your threads and PMs I can understand where your both coming from with the hog situation. Being from extreme NW Georgia I can not fathom what the situation is like on the farmers in this state down south as we do not have that situation in my areas. 

Jager, thank you for taking the time to clarify your views... With the economic crisis we are facing - the farms can't afford to take a hard line hit from hogs or any other species ex. geese, fireants etc... Jager after reading your profile, website etc... I can appreciate a man of your knowledge and experiences. So to you I offer a sincere apology for speaking before being educated....

Redlevel, the same goes for you. Thank you for the PMs and for the information you shared with me. I too want to extend my sincere apologies to you as well...

I think that alot of times threads can get blown out of shape due to the wrong wordage or phrases. Folks perceive statements in different ways, and what reads/sounds good to one man may be a shot in the heart to another. I am guilty of speaking/typing out of context and turn, and well above my education level for the subject at hand....

Thanks to you both... Jager and Redlevel...

Have a good evening, and again please accept my apologies.


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## kornbread (May 19, 2009)

i think we need to get back on the topic of trying to solve the problem together give each other ideas and about how to control the population .you guys that dont have but one place to hunt make that person happy and it will go farther than you think . i have been hunting one big farm for a while that the farmer was tired of the guys drinking and having 20 people running dogs and catching a few here and there and then seeing them at the store with it alive bragging so he put a end to it untill i begged him to give me a chance now a year later and countless hogs he seen dead and now word of mouth i picked up 4 more big farms around him .do a good job and there will be places to hunt. invite the farmer to go and he can see how you operate and it will get you far .


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## Wauchula Hog Krew (May 19, 2009)

Jager, this is something I will actually praise you on. Giving some of the less fortunate hog-dog hunters a chance to work together with you and others who use a different method than hunting hogs with dogs. This separates and SHOWS who has the respectful reputation to properly hunt hogs with dogs and will possibly reveal the ones who have been giving us a bad name.

Although, my cousin and I are from Florida, we have been feeling the burden and backlash unleashed onto the Georgian doggers who have been stressed by these very individuals who have given the method a bad name. It's just like a bad apple in the bunch. It destroys the rest because someone couldn't separate it from the good!

I have been stressing enough with the fact that transporting a hog is only right as long as the hog(s) ends up DEAD one way or another. Relocating a hog, alive, and releasing it is different and should be listed as RELOCATION. Too many imbeciles refuse to separate the terms relocation and transporting. Some people transport it alive to be able to pen it up and fatten it up to make the meat better. Some people transport it alive to show it off, as long as it becomes a dead hog later on. Some people transport the hog alive because they are hunting on someone elses land (with permission). Some people transport it alive because they are still in the middle of hunting other hogs and it's just quicker to throw the hog in the trailer and go after more, rather than just sitting there and knifing it for the next 10 to 15 minutes till it's dead. The quicker it is handled the quicker you can get back to catching the other ones. People have their reasons. We have our reasons. But it all comes down to ONE right outcome for respect. It will be DEAD.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that some say it's inhumane and too much torture to send a bunch of dogs on a hog and just stress the crap out of it. I partially agree to this. My cousin and I use 3 dogs. 2 of them are suppose to bay it up and the other one is a catch dog. Sometimes I need both of them to catch and his dog to keep it bayed up. Some people feel the need to send 7 dogs on a hog is better. I don't know why. You should only need 1 catch dog. If it is all bay dogs then that's alright. But to have 5 catch dogs and 2 bay dogs is all wrong. But we can't control that. In my eyes, 2 or 3 dogs is more than sufficient. 2 Bays and 1 Catch with the exception of the other switching to catch when help is needed. Don't slap us around just because someone else, that we don't know, is using a whole bunch of dogs. That's not our problem. Sooner or later they will figure it out and realize it's inhumane to torture that hog with that many dogs, if they have enough common sense.

We keep the suffering to a minimum as much as we can. The others should, also.

While thermal imaging and shooting hogs seem to produce more dead ones than catching them with dogs is good, it's also a little overboard. I'll still support the thermal imaging if it is regulated at some point. 77 hogs in 6 nights? That's a bit excessive. I've been hog hunting with a 270 Winchester, during the day, before. I've noticed when I killed 2 hogs in less than a minute, none of them would show up at the same spot for the next month or so. So, I think a regulation should be in place to equalize the opportunity for other people with other methods to catch and kill hogs. I'm all for killing as many as you can and controlling their population, but tone it down a little and spread the opportunity to the respectful hunters, who will do the same by your side, with a different method.

I have shared the news and your methods with quite a few hog hunters around here and not one person would ever support your method around here. But believe it or not, they too will control the population as much as they can. We have been gaining a lot of respect around here and have been producing more and more dead hogs each month. It's all about how you do it and what is the outcome of it.

My next concern is this method of "toxin" baiting. Where is the sport in that? If you're producing 77 dead hogs in 6 night with thermal imagery and helping it be legal in other states and training fellow agents to be able to thermal image hunt at night, then there is absolutely no need to introduce this "toxin" baiting. There is already an outcry against your thermal imaging. This will make matters even worse and you're not just going to an average opposition at conferences and meetings. You're going to get heavy, heavy, heavy protesters against you and anybody for it. And I'm not just talking about speaking out. I'm talking about an actual riot. Heck, you just may get some serious death threats from those people if it is introduced and becomes popular. 

If it's that much of a problem to bring in the toxin baiting then the best suggestion and solution is to team up with all forms of hog hunters and work together. There should not be a problem producing an equal amount or even more when working together on same lands or different sections with closed gaps.

The same thing goes for the contraceptive hog baiting making sows infertile. The ONLY time I would go for this is if a certain group of hogs were being so elusive and refused to ever be caught, trapped, or killed by hunting with guns. But then again, maybe it isn't always the hogs, maybe it's just the hunter? Maybe you just need to change your routine around to get them. 

Other than that, I'll never support toxins and contraceptive hog baiting in this lifetime. I rather pour some honey all over me and shower in sour corn and throw myself in the woods late at night, armed with just a knife and let my bold stupidity produce a dead hog of any size.

There is other things I would like to discuss but I must cut my time off for now and get back to work. Thanks for listening and sharing, Jager.


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## JAGER (May 19, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> Jager and Redlevel,
> 
> Gentlemen I would like to offer an apology to you both for the comments I have made on this thread and the other regarding the free meat.



No need for an apology to me. This topic is a legitimate concern for the farming community, the hunting industry and our hunting reputation. There is a great deal of passion and emotion surrounding this topic. Human nature makes it very easy to change our minds from positive to negative, but next to impossible to change from negative to positive. Emotion often plays a bigger part in the process than logic. I listen to everyone's opinion and then offer my 'logical' perspective of the situation. 

I appreciate your comments. If you were thinking it, so were other hunters on this forum. It gave me the opportunity to educate everyone about the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) and why Georgia's State Meat Inspection program doesn't allow feral hog donations directly to food banks. 

The spirit of the GON Forum is to have intelligent conversations about these topics and to exchange ideas and opinions. The only way we are going to improve anything is to discuss it. 

Thanks, ---JAGER


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## JAGER (May 19, 2009)

Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> Jager, this is something I will actually praise you on.



Thanks. I can see you spent a great deal of time gathering your thoughts and compiling them in your post. I promise to listen to your comments and then offer my 'logical' opinion. 



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> Although, my cousin and I are from Florida… Too many imbeciles refuse to separate the terms relocation and transporting.



First, Florida transport laws are different than Georgia law. "Georgia feral swine of any age moving within Georgia must test negative to an official brucellosis test and official pseudorabies test within 30 days prior to movement and originate from a validated brucellosis free herd and a qualified pseudorabies free herd."

Second, why is this law so important? Because U.S. pork exports to other countries is a 13 billion dollar industry to the American economy. All states were successful in reaching disease-free status for pseudorabies (PRV) in domestic hog herds during late 2004. Since PRV has been reported in feral hogs from 10 states, the USDA is ultimately concerned about spreading this virus to domestic pork again. All it takes is two documented cases of PRV in domestic pork within a state and that state loses its export status. 

You and I both know many doggers transport hogs back home to feed out or butcher; not to relocate. Sure, the reason makes sense. But do game wardens and Department of Agriculture agents care if it makes sense? No. Bottom Line- It is illegal to transport hogs without testing for swine brucellosis and PRV. 

Remember the earlier philosophy. It doesn't matter whether it is right or wrong, it is how it is "perceived" by the public. If hunters and trappers are showing hogs in a transport trailer in Georgia, they are "perceived" to be breaking the law. If they are breaking the law, it is "perceived" they are endangering Georgia domestic pork. As hunters, this sends the wrong message to the USDA and our state legislators who are worried about the transmission of pseudorabies (PRV) and swine brucellosis to domestic pork. Their job is to protect the health and value of American agriculture. Remember, hunters are trying to improve our image and "perception". Not publicly display we disregard laws and regulations.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> While thermal imaging and shooting hogs seem to produce more dead ones than catching them with dogs, it's also a little overboard. I'll still support thermal imaging if it is regulated at some point. 79 hogs in 6 nights? That's a bit excessive.



In Georgia, feral hogs are property of the landowner; not the state. Therefore, the landowner (not the state) regulates harvest numbers on their land. Removing 79 hogs in six nights was not overboard or excessive to the landowner who had to replant 80 acres of corn. It was not viewed as excessive by surrounding farmers and landowners either. Legally, it was not excessive since there is no daily bag limit on feral hogs. 

What reason do you consider killing 79 hogs in one week excessive? It may seem like a large number to you. Especially if we kill more hogs in one week than you do all year. Bottom Line- The landowner is the ONLY opinion which truly matters. Legally, the hogs belong to them.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> I've been hog hunting with a 270 Winchester, during the day, before. I've noticed when I killed 2 hogs in less than a minute, none of them would show up at the same spot for the next month or so. So, I think a regulation should be in place to equalize the opportunity for other people with other methods to catch and kill hogs.



How can I make you understand the farmer’s investment? Let me give you a word picture. If your house was infested with termites, would you ask Terminix to just scare the termites away so they could come back and destroy your house next month? Would you ask them to only remove a few termites so another company like Orkin can kill some next month? Or would you want Terminix to kill as many termites as possible today before they totally destroyed your entire house? Answer honestly because the fate of your largest financial asset is at stake. It is your decision because you own the home. This is how the farmer sees feral hogs. It is his decision because he owns the land and the crops.

Our loyalty is to the farmer. The mission is to solve the crop damage problem, which is the sole determining factor of how many hogs are killed. Your hunting reputation is based on customer satisfaction. Georgia farmers are NOT looking for "sport" hunters. They are looking for competent hunters and trappers who are committed to investing the time and resources needed to solve the problem.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> My next concern is this method of "toxin" baiting. Where is the sport in that?



This is my point exactly. If hog hunters won’t produce the results farmers want, we might be replaced by sodium nitrite.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> If you're producing 79 dead hogs in 6 night with thermal imagery and helping it be legal in other states and training fellow agents to use thermal imaging...



I hope you realize I do not work for the USDA or the National Wildlife Research Center. I only train the USDA APHIS agents how to apply thermal technology and equipment toward human-wildlife conflicts in their states. They are Federal Wildlife Service agents who are not regulated by state hunting regulations. Each individual state decides their hunting regulation. Currently, only Georgia and Texas allow their hunters to use infrared equipment to legally hunt feral hogs at night without a special permit.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> …there is absolutely no need to introduce this "toxin" baiting. Heck, you just may get some serious death threats from those people if it is introduced and becomes popular.



You are killing the messenger. I attend state/national “Feral Hog Control” Conferences and meetings to keep abreast of the hunting and wildlife control industry for my business. I am simply sharing the results of these conferences with the members of this forum. I have no more control or input over the USDA National Wildlife Research Center’s mission, research or sodium nitrite bait introduction than you do.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> 1. I'll still support thermal imaging if it is regulated at some point.
> 2. I think a regulation should be in place to equalize the opportunity for other people with other methods to catch and kill hogs.
> 3. I'm all for killing as many as you can and controlling their population, but tone it down a little and spread the opportunity to the respectful hunters, who will do the same by your side, with a different method.
> 4. I have shared the news and your methods with quite a few hog hunters around here and not one person would ever support your method.



These four comments represent your “sport” hunting roots and a perfect example to the dogging community’s opposition to thermal hog control. I’m glad you posted them so we can discuss it.

Dogging hogs is full of southern tradition passed down through generations. It is a great sport and you feel I am asking you to change the way you hunt. I understand. Everything was great until this retired Soldier came along and started using high-priced thermal technology and semi-automatic rifles to kill more hogs in a week than you kill all year. It all happened so fast it was a little threatening. What if this method makes dogging obsolete? What if farmers don’t let you hunt anymore because there is a more effective method? What if this method kills all the hogs? What if…?

Now take how you feel about thermal hog control and replace it with sodium nitrite. Could sodium nitrite baits make dogging obsolete? What if farmers don’t let you hunt anymore because there is a more effective method? What if this method kills all the hogs? If it happens, it will happen fast!

The ball is in our court. If hunters don’t perform a better job at controlling feral hog populations today, we might not have a choice in the future.



Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> We have been gaining a lot of respect around here and have been producing more and more dead hogs each month.



Keep up the good work. I appreciate your comments and opinions. Our challenge is to effectively 'control' feral hogs to the point where agricultural damage is minimal. I would like to see more “sport” hunters step-up to a “hog control” philosophy. Hunters can better serve the needs of farmers and landowners while still enjoying the thrill of the hunt.

---JAGER


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## gigem (May 19, 2009)

Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> Jager, this is something I will actually praise you on. Giving some of the less fortunate hog-dog hunters a chance to work together with you and others who use a different method than hunting hogs with dogs. This separates and SHOWS who has the respectful reputation to properly hunt hogs with dogs and will possibly reveal the ones who have been giving us a bad name.
> 
> Although, my cousin and I are from Florida, we have been feeling the burden and backlash unleashed onto the Georgian doggers who have been stressed by these very individuals who have given the method a bad name. It's just like a bad apple in the bunch. It destroys the rest whatbecause someone couldn't separate it from the good!
> 
> ...


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## gigem (May 19, 2009)

Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> Jager, this is something I will actually praise you on. Giving some of the less fortunate hog-dog hunters a chance to work together with you and others who use a different method than hunting hogs with dogs. This separates and SHOWS who has the respectful reputation to properly hunt hogs with dogs and will possibly reveal the ones who have been giving us a bad name.
> 
> Although, my cousin and I are from Florida, we have been feeling the burden and backlash unleashed onto the Georgian doggers who have been stressed by these very individuals who have given the method a bad name. It's just like a bad apple in the bunch. It destroys the rest whatbecause someone couldn't separate it from the good!
> 
> ...


What


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## gigem (May 19, 2009)

Wauchula Hog Krew said:


> Jager, this is something I will actually praise you on. Giving some of the less fortunate hog-dog hunters a chance to work together with you and others who use a different method than hunting hogs with dogs. This separates and SHOWS who has the respectful reputation to properly hunt hogs with dogs and will possibly reveal the ones who have been giving us a bad name.
> 
> Although, my cousin and I are from Florida, we have been feeling the burden and backlash unleashed onto the Georgian doggers who have been stressed by these very individuals who have given the method a bad name. It's just like a bad apple in the bunch. It destroys the rest because someone couldn't separate it from the good!
> 
> ...


What


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## slawdawg69 (May 20, 2009)

tranported one friday nite and a state trooper came and admired it and said nothing . we'll feed it in the pen and butcher it ? is that illegal?


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## PWalls (May 20, 2009)

slawdawg69 said:


> tranported one friday nite and a state trooper came and admired it and said nothing . we'll feed it in the pen and butcher it ? is that illegal?



Without the proper testing, yes.


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## SELFBOW (May 20, 2009)

PWalls said:


> Without the proper testing, yes.



Under who's authority?

I found this little interesting comment from 2005...

In Georgia, where feral hogs roam in 137 of 159 counties - representing a 350 percent increase in the past 15 years - authorities have yet to propose a specific state law completely banning their transportation and release.

However, "agriculture laws make it illegal to transport or release hogs that have not been tested for brucellosis and pseudorabies," Georgia Wildlife Resources Division spokeswoman Melissa Cummings said. "Right now the Georgia Department of Agriculture regulates this issue."

Georgia wildlife authorities have suggested strengthening laws pertaining to feral hogs because it has been an issue of concern identified in the state's new Deer Management Plan.


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## PWalls (May 20, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> Under who's authority?



I believe the Ga Dept of Agriculture. What's your point?


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## SELFBOW (May 20, 2009)

PWalls said:


> I believe the Ga Dept of Agriculture. What's your point?



Would a state trooper be concerned with a regulation the dept of agriculture has control over?


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## dadsbuckshot (May 20, 2009)

buckbacks said:


> Would a state trooper be concerned with a regulation the dept of agriculture has control over?



YES!!! Georgia laws (aka OCGA) can be enforced by any Georgia POST certified peace officer with a PBLE number (including troopers and rangers) or the Georgia Department of Agriculture Officers (which can be certifield or non-certified). Laws are laws and can be enforced by law enforcement officers... 

Not wanting you to get in any trouble 

Have fun and be safe...


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## SELFBOW (May 20, 2009)

What I meant was "Would the trooper know the ag laws that well?"


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## Public Land Prowler (May 20, 2009)

You'll never get 62,000 hogs on one piece of land.The land can't support it.The hogs will get diseased and die.Predators will kick in.I KNOW!

Hogs are where the food is.Alot of the time there are no hogs on the property until crops are planted.The hogs know where to find food all during the year.They don't stand under the persimmon tree all freakin year just cause they ate persimmons there in october.They routinely check areas for new food sources.It is a survival technique.When they find the food there they start hitting it.Same with crops.

So no matter how many hogs Jager shoots,doggers catch or hunters shoot..if you don't get EVERY single one,they will come back,so long as the land can support them!

I'm sure toxins,drugs,poison or whatever will do the trick to finally rid you of your hogs,but at what damage to other wildlife at what cost?Maybe your deer,turkeys,quail,dove or anything else that comes into contact with or consumes it?Speaking of cost..Sell a hunt if you want to make money to help make up for the crops lost.They pay you $10 per hog taken ain't too much(like pay to fish),and if word gets out you sell a hog hunt,and people come out and shoot them..hey you are making money...they will spread the word.If people come out and don't see/kill anything..guess what?..Your hog problem ain't as bad as you thought,prolly a few stragglers hittin it at night.

Just like hogs move from palmetto flats eating palmetto berries in early summer they go to crops,,then they go to acorns,down to the creek bottoms in drought,and during late season..and back into the fields when new growth,and rain comes.

So what is the problem.Most likely you just need to learn how to deal with it.If hogs are coming when you have crops,then deal with it.If you want to pay money to JAGER to do it(which is why he brings "awarness" to this board..for business),or you get out there with you,your friends,dogs,traps,whatever!You shoot enough and they will slow down coming!

What I want to know is who in the crap is having a hard time finding someone to come kill their hogs!Just post on here you want kids to come shoot hogs,or anyone to come shoot hogs,AND YOU WILL GET 50 PMS!

That don't float with me.The deal is they don't want people on their property,most don't want to pay people like JAGER,they just want to complain.

Also hogs help the deer hunting,they compete with hard mast which makes the deer get up and move a little bit more to look for food.Our winters aren't bad,and deer browse on foods WAY out of a hogs reach.They will survive!Have you ever seen deer root for tubers?Yeah I didn't think so.

Alot of book knowledge,and numbers on here,but thankfully there is some reality knowledge on here.

In short..you got hogs,either get word out you need help,shut up or Pay big money to someone to come and Massacre them..

Massacre---

1 : the act or an instance of killing a number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings under circumstances of atrocity or cruelty 
2 : a cruel or wanton murder 
3 : a wholesale slaughter of animals 

Yeah they have absolutely no fair chance to get away.Thermal vision scopes are not fair Chase,and I believe in fair chase.Atleast with a spotlight you have to keep it on them,and they can see a spotlight.During actual hunting you have to track,and figure out the animlas,dog hunting actually takes physical work,all of these still give the animal a sporting chance.I respect the animals enought to give them a chance.

That's pretty much all I have to say....besides why does this disturbance continue to plauge the board?What is the benefit,and to whom?

How does it benefit Jager to gather up a group of hunters that he delegates to farmers in need?Why pay Jager to come if he can send hunters out there that are willing to do it for free?...or does Jager wish to be paid for reffering hunters to the property...?What benefit is there for Jager to post these threads?

Sorry for being straight up,but I like other hunters on here am sick of it.That's why I quit posting hog threads here for so long.Hard to enjoy the hog forum.


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## bigreddwon (May 20, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> YES!!! Georgia laws (aka OCGA) can be enforced by any Georgia POST certified peace officer with a PBLE number (including troopers and rangers) or the Georgia Department of Agriculture Officers (which can be certifield or non-certified). Laws are laws and can be enforced by law enforcement officers...
> 
> Not wanting you to get in any trouble
> 
> Have fun and be safe...



 Knowing your a peace officer I have a question for you.. Now that your aware of the problem ( I read your post on redlevels thread where you addressed Jager and him )   Will you be writing citations now that your aware? Say if you ride up on some good ol' boys showing their hogs off at the local gas station type o thing?


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## dadsbuckshot (May 21, 2009)

bigreddwon said:


> Knowing your a peace officer I have a question for you.. Now that your aware of the problem ( I read your post on redlevels thread where you addressed Jager and him )   Will you be writing citations now that your aware? Say if you ride up on some good ol' boys showing their hogs off at the local gas station type o thing?



I come from a long family line of law enforcement. My father is a 26 year GSP Veteran and he taught me the best lessons when it comes to a question such as yours....

COMMON SENSE GOES ALONG WAY!!! AND TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED 

95% of folks are good people (good Ol' hog boys) - I would stop and admire their kills and tell them to have a good day. If I truely felt there may be a law broken then I would document what I saw and pass it along to the local ranger and agriculture inspector. 

Now on the flip side - if it is February 28th and your driving down the road with your big ol' black bear dead in the back of the truck and your .300 win mag in the seat next to you - well then I will probably hold you up for alittle while until we get to the bottom of things  - again when the local ranger arrives....

Title #2 of the Official Code of Georgia is the Agriculture laws, and yes I have written citations from this title; however, it was only after I contacted further resources (DNR Rangers and Other Agriculture Inspectors) for guidance. I always ensure that if I write someone a citation that they are deserving of such a citation, and that it was not just a lack of common knowledge on the part of the violator.  

If the violator truely didn't know they were breaking a law then they will get a warning, but if I interview someone at roadside and after a lengthy friendly conversation they say "well officer I thought that my be wrong or illegal to do" then well thats where their (the violator) common sense should have came into play - everyone has to have and use common sense on both sides of the law including the officer...

Again my father taught me well - when writing tickets - courtesty and common sense goes along way. Treat folks the way you would want to be treated if you were standing in their shoes, and if I do this then I expect the same from the person I am dealing with at that time. 

In the end we all need to leave the the side of the road on good terms and understandings. Be nice to everyone as much as they will let you...


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 21, 2009)

PLP, welcome back to the hog forum and your post is eye opening as well.  Good post.


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## bigreddwon (May 21, 2009)

dadsbuckshot said:


> I come from a long family line of law enforcement. My father is a 26 year GSP Veteran and he taught me the best lessons when it comes to a question such as yours....
> 
> COMMON SENSE GOES ALONG WAY!!! AND TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED
> 
> ...



 Thanks for the reply, common sense and respect are always traits I like to see in 'the man'.


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## jgyfarms (May 22, 2009)

been a little while since i visited the forum.  first of all let me complement jager for his level-headed open-minded approach to the subject.  we should all take note of this.  second of all, let me remind you all that there is a very thin line between hunters and farmers...usually none at all.  all of these posts seem to make a distinct contradiction between the two.  I personally am both...with a hog problem.  I have a lot to say on this topic. before you say anything, you need to check your facts. peanut seed doesn't cost 200 bucks an acre. its more like 100 an acre, but the hogs are costing us several hundred per acre destroyed. (chemicals, fertilizer, fuel, labor, sanity...)  Hogs can't be placed on the same playing field with traditional game species. my family farms 3500 acres which never had a hog on them until the last year. now were approaching 80% "contamination" over 4 counties...guys they're costing me alot of money.  let me restate... i am an avid hunter that's about to start raising hog dogs.  I think that i can speak for all farmers, we don't care what method you use; KILL THE HOGS!!!!!!!! HAVE YOU REALLY MISSED THE BOLL WEEVIL?


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## Public Land Prowler (May 23, 2009)

jgyfarms said:


> been a little while since i visited the forum.  first of all let me complement jager for his level-headed open-minded approach to the subject.  we should all take note of this.  second of all, let me remind you all that there is a very thin line between hunters and farmers...usually none at all.  all of these posts seem to make a distinct contradiction between the two.  I personally am both...with a hog problem.  I have a lot to say on this topic. before you say anything, you need to check your facts. peanut seed doesn't cost 200 bucks an acre. its more like 100 an acre, but the hogs are costing us several hundred per acre destroyed. (chemicals, fertilizer, fuel, labor, sanity...)  Hogs can't be placed on the same playing field with traditional game species. my family farms 3500 acres which never had a hog on them until the last year. now were approaching 80% "contamination" over 4 counties...guys they're costing me alot of money.  let me restate... i am an avid hunter that's about to start raising hog dogs.  I think that i can speak for all farmers, we don't care what method you use; KILL THE HOGS!!!!!!!! HAVE YOU REALLY MISSED THE BOLL WEEVIL?


I respect that,and you are willing to do what it takes to handle the problem.I also agree Jager seems to be very intelligent.As much as I really don't like JAGER's technique of mass slaughter,I do see the appeal for farmers who are over-run with hogs.I don't think it is anything to brag about as it is done with an unfair advantage to the hogs...I don't have access to the land anyways..it's your property...etc..,so if it is legal,then ya know...whatever...But why does it keep getting pushed HERE?


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## jgyfarms (May 23, 2009)

Also, I can't think of any farmers in my area that don't let people hunt hogs on their property. Most likely if the farmer has hogs, it's not that he's not letting anyone else hunt them, he just may not be letting YOU hunt them.


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## redlevel (May 23, 2009)

Public Land Prowler said:


> I don't think it is anything to brag about as it is done with an unfair advantage to the hogs..
> 
> But why does it keep getting pushed HERE?



Once again, you are giving feral hogs the same status you would give to a legitimate game species.   What you are saying is like telling a farmer he doesn't need to use herbicides because that is unfair to the pigweed.

Hogs are not legitimate game animals--they are pests, and farmers want every one of them gone, whether dog hunters catch them,  Jager shoots them, or someone calls down lightning bolts from heaven.   There is no such thing as "unfair advantage" when it comes to dealing with pests.   Discussions of "fair chase" have no place in the mix.

In an earlier post you said something about paying Jager to come shoot the hogs.  My understanding is that Jager's services are free to the farmer--he charges his clients for the hunt.

You also mentioned getting "fifty PMs" from people who want to hunt.  As has been said over and over, we aren't running a hunting preserve.  We don't want fifty people we don't know running around the farm.  We don't need sport hunters.  We need someone who is willing and capable of a massacre, a "wholesale wanton slaughter" if you will.  

The reason it keeps getting pushed here is that here is where the people who can help if they will are located, and here is where at least some of the people who cause the problem are, also.  Here is where the people who have the misconception that feral hogs are legitimate game animals are located.


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## SELFBOW (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Once again, you are giving feral hogs the same status you would give to a legitimate game species.   What you are saying is like telling a farmer he doesn't need to use herbicides because that is unfair to the pigweed.
> 
> Hogs are not legitimate game animals--they are pests, and farmers want every one of them gone, whether dog hunters catch them,  Jager shoots them, or someone calls down lightning bolts from heaven.   There is no such thing as "unfair advantage" when it comes to dealing with pests.   Discussions of "fair chase" have no place in the mix.
> 
> ...



Only thing being pushed here is Jager's self promotion of his business because he NEEDS hunters to pay for his services. The .50 cents a mile he used to get just don't cut it anymore...


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## gnarlyone (May 23, 2009)

*wow!*

PLP.....Well said....that about covers all issues for all sides..and the issue of sueing...there is a page in the hunting regs that discusses a bill introduced for the Land owner not being sued by someone they let hunt on thier land...does anybody know if this is in effect or just a submission?


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## sghoghunter (May 23, 2009)

Gnarlyone thats just an excuse and an easy way to say that we could never hunt on their land.


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## SELFBOW (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Discussions of "fair chase" have no place in the mix.



If this was terminix.com I'd understand that rationality but
this is a hunting forum.


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## redlevel (May 23, 2009)

gnarlyone said:


> and the issue of sueing...there is a page in the hunting regs that discusses a bill introduced for the Land owner not being sued by someone they let hunt on thier land...does anybody know if this is in effect or just a submission?





sghoghunter said:


> Gnarlyone thats just an excuse and an easy way to say that we could never hunt on their land.


_
Landowner Liability & Hunting
7/8/2005

http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/content/displaycontent.asp?txtDocument=435
Legal liability has been identified as a major concern among landowners when considering whether or not to grant access to hunters to hunt their property. Legal liability has also been offered as a reason some landowners have stopped allowing hunter access to their property. This is an important issue of concern with the increasing need of sound deer management and hunting access.

To encourage landowners to make their lands available to the public for recreational purposes, including hunting and fishing, Georgia law (OCGA 51-3-20 through 51-3-26) explicitly shields landowners from civil liability for injuries to persons who use their land for recreational purposes without charge unless the landowner willfully or maliciously fails to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition, use, structure, or activity. Landowners will not be liable unless they violate this standard of care. _


What this tells me is that you can hunt on my property, after I carefully explain where the fences, ditches, old wells, etc are located.  Then, you or your son flip your four-wheeler crossing the gully on the back forty and is paralyzed.  "I told you it was there,"  I say.
     "Yeah," you say, "but you should have had it marked.  See you in court."

Then I get to spend $15,000.  on a lawyer to prove to a jury that I, the landowner, am not liable under the statute.   I win the case.  The lawyer still has my $15,000.

I suggest that if you want land to hunt hogs, deer, whatever, you buy some, put a hog-proof fence around it, release some hogs, and have at it.  I am not running a preserve.   I don't want your released hogs rooting up my crops, and I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry,  many of whom have proved right here on this forum that they have an attitude,  roaming all over my farm.


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## Robk (May 23, 2009)

Jager came and went last year and stayed gone until another member here brought his operation up in a post a couple months ago trashing his operation.  If everyone would let it go and get back to normal he'd be gone in a minute to run his business.

Just an idea.


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## sghoghunter (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> _
> Landowner Liability & Hunting
> 7/8/2005
> 
> ...



To me if you have to worry about people suing you then you must be around a diffrent kind of folks than me.Oh why not put a fence around your place and keep them,what yall call relocated hogs out of your farm.I dont think I'll ever own a farm seeing that I have to work for everything and have never had anything just handed down and the way the world is today it aint lookn to promising.


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## Public Land Prowler (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Once again, you are giving feral hogs the same status you would give to a legitimate game species.   What you are saying is like telling a farmer he doesn't need to use herbicides because that is unfair to the pigweed.
> 
> Hogs are not legitimate game animals--they are pests, and farmers want every one of them gone, whether dog hunters catch them,  Jager shoots them, or someone calls down lightning bolts from heaven.   There is no such thing as "unfair advantage" when it comes to dealing with pests.   Discussions of "fair chase" have no place in the mix.
> 
> ...


It is your right as the landowner to say who comes on your property.I agree.Even though I do not agree with the method,it is legal,so be it..But you don't get one point.OK so he is USING the farmers to hunt THEIR hogs,on THEIR property,and HE makes all the money off of it.The one and only bonus for the farmer is that the hogs are gone.It is up to the farmer/landowner to decide if he wants them gone enough to pretty much re-pay Jager by letting him make money off of him.If that is cool with you then whatever..lol

Hogs are not a weed,they are a living breathing animal,that deserves respect as well.Just because they are not labeled a game animal,doesn't mean they aren't a game animal,because they are actually a game animal to many...I'm not going weed/boll weevil hunt..lol

HE is coming on here advertising his services...be it someone out of the blue asks,or either if it is planned for someone to bring the subject up.Using the forum to make money isn't what the forum is for is it?What would be the problem in going to swap and sell member services,posting it there,and that would be the end of it.

Also this thread was started by jager.



jgyfarms said:


> Also, I can't think of any farmers in my area that don't let people hunt hogs on their property. Most likely if the farmer has hogs, it's not that he's not letting anyone else hunt them, he just may not be letting YOU hunt them.


I agree...and usually for a good reason.One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.I can't say that I blame a farmer/landowner for that.That's why I suggested the sub-forum where reputable hunters could be found if the landowner/farmer was too overwhelmed with hogs,or too busy to handle it himself.It of course is his decision if he wants to seek outside help..

This whole thing likens me to someone sticking their hand in a boiling pot of water to grab money at the bottom of it...You know it's hot,but you want the money,you stick your hand in and ask everyone for help to get your hand out,someone approaches to help,and you turn them away,but keep screaming....when in fact you could just pull it out yourself.


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## redlevel (May 23, 2009)

Public Land Prowler said:


> But you don't get one point.OK so he is USING the farmers to hunt THEIR hogs,on THEIR property,and HE makes all the money off of it.The one and only bonus for the farmer is that the hogs are gone.It is up to the farmer/landowner to decide if he wants them gone enough to pretty much re-pay Jager by letting him make money off of him.If that is cool with you then whatever..lol
> 
> Hogs are not a weed,they are a living breathing animal,that deserves respect as well.Just because they are not labeled a game animal,doesn't mean they aren't a game animal,because they are actually a game animal to many...I'm not going weed/boll weevil hunt..lol



Hogs in my crops deserve the same respect roaches in your kitchen deserve;  they are both living, breathing animals, right?

As far as Jager "using" farmers, suppose he shows up with a crew to pull cockleburs out of my soybeans.  I was going to hire a crew, but Jager says, "No.  These people are willing to pay me big money to pull your weeds.  I will make some money, and it won't cost you a thing.  Your weeds will be gone."     I would let him "use" me like that every time.

And guess what?  All of you who cry and complain and say call me to hunt, or let hunters on your place.  You want to "use" the landowner.  You want a free place to hunt.  How is it different from Jager coming in, except that he will actually kill enough hogs to do some good.


Oh, I guess I am just dumb, but you are going to have to explain to me what that last paragraph about turning someone away, the boiling water, etc. means.    Do you mean turning away all those folks who want somewhere free to hunt?


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## gnarlyone (May 23, 2009)

*lol*

..LLTWH.


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## redlevel (May 23, 2009)

gnarlyone said:


> ..LLTWH.



WADA


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## bigreddwon (May 23, 2009)

The 27-28th Im huntin with Jager.. I could give a warm bucket of spit IF he was getting paid 30 bucks a hog from the farmer and getting my cash as well.. 

Hes NOT being paid by the farmers, but in my opinion, it wouldn't take from my hunt, or take from the results the farmer gets, or the farmer next door who's NOT getting 90% of a sounders 'pushed' onto his property from 'other' control methods. 

The only people who seem to have a problem with him to me at least, seem petty and narrow minded. Upset that hes making a living at it one, and two, hunting where they will never get to hunt..

Hunters are perceived as being ineffective, as well as part of the problem (relocation). Jager gets on these property's, THEN he tell THE REST of the guys who screwed it up, HOW to get BACK on the property's.. What do they do? They not only DONT listen, the vilify him in several ways "Hes not a hunter" "hes only out to make himself money". 

The way I see it, he didnt have to put a post up telling hunters who already screwed THEMSELVES outta good 'hunting' grounds, the best way to get BACK onto them. But he did, and every word was dripping in common sence and had a genreal underlying thread of "Lets all work together to change how were looked at as a whole". Its just not enough for some I guess.


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## Public Land Prowler (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> .  You want to "use" the landowner.  You want a free place to hunt.  How is it different from Jager coming in, except that he will actually kill enough hogs to do some good.
> 
> 
> Oh, I guess I am just dumb, but you are going to have to explain to me what that last paragraph about turning someone away, the boiling water, etc. means.    Do you mean turning away all those folks who want somewhere free to hunt?


LOL..You are a tough one red.

No...What I am saying is there are people willing to PAY the landowner directly to help with his problem.If you would rather not have the money because you don't want the people on your land THAT is your decision.You want to pay someone to massacre your hogs,that is your decision.The point was as stated by several people time and again,that alot of people whine and complain,and when they get asked for permission they turn people away.

I still fail to understand why you disapporove of giving a free hunt to someone who can help you with your problem,and admire the fact a man can use you to make money for himself at your expense?Maybe I am dumb when it comes to that..lol

There are people who would be willing to help you with chores,or pay you to hunt your property,and be rid of what you so despise.And they are not doing it for the sole reason of selfishly making money,they are doing it for the love of the sport.

I will say you don't let go when you bite on to something,much like me..lol,but can I ask you why would you not let me come hunt your farm if I signed a paper,helped you with chores,or paid you to hunt it?I have an excelllent reputation in my area,and I wouldn't disrespect you or your property.Why not let me come help?

BTW I have access to tons of land,and have no shortage of hogs.I get all that I can handle,so I am not a begger,just curious to why you stand at your position.

Agreed Jager does have a way with some people.Doesn't make me jealous or dislike him as a person.


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## bigreddwon (May 23, 2009)

Public Land Prowler said:


> LOL..You are a tough one red.
> .
> 
> I still fail to understand why you disapporove of giving a free hunt to someone who can help you with your problem,and admire the fact a man can use you to make money for himself at your expense?Maybe I am dumb when it comes to that..lol
> ...




 PLP, I gotta say man, the very thing that seems to have your hackles up is kinda.. HOW AMERICANS OPERATE, Ya know, capitolism. If a guy can make a buck helping someone take care of a PROBLEM, well.. Isnt that kinda the description of most companys we all know and love? 

  The guys who sell pesticides to farmers arent made out to be robber barrons like you kinda have Jager pigionholed as. Why not? the farmers need them, why shouldnt the pesticide company find a way to give it to them at cost, or less?


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## Nicodemus (May 23, 2009)

.......


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## sghoghunter (May 23, 2009)

bigreddwon said:


> The 27-28th Im huntin with Jager.. I could give a warm bucket of spit IF he was getting paid 30 bucks a hog from the farmer and getting my cash as well..
> 
> Hes NOT being paid by the farmers, but in my opinion, it wouldn't take from my hunt, or take from the results the farmer gets, or the farmer next door who's NOT getting 90% of a sounders 'pushed' onto his property from 'other' control methods.
> 
> ...


Be sure to post some pics.


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## HOGDOG76 (May 23, 2009)

sghoghunter said:


> be sure to post some pics.



maybe i should start charging you when i take you hunting on thermal


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## SELFBOW (May 23, 2009)

redlevel said:


> Oh, I guess I am just dumb, but you are going to have to explain to me what that last paragraph about turning someone away, the boiling water, etc. means.    Do you mean turning away all those folks who want somewhere free to hunt?




Are they coming to you to help with the hogs?
Isn't that what you want?
Are you saying Jager is paid to hunt your property?

Again What is Redlevel doing to solve his hog problem?
What is his neighbors doing to solve his hog problem?

Complaining gets you nothing, not even a little respect.


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## gnarlyone (May 23, 2009)

*Well...*

Somebody thinks enough of a hog to make me buy a HUNTING LICENSE to catch them.....No guns...no bows....just a dog or 2 .......HUMMMMMM???????
BTW.....LLTWH


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## redlevel (May 23, 2009)

_"What I am saying is there are people willing to PAY the landowner directly to help with his problem.If you would rather not have the money because you don't want the people on your land THAT is your decision."_

If I charge you a fee, then that automatically heightens my assumption of liability.  It isn't worth it.  Yes, that is my decision.

_"You want to pay someone to massacre your hogs,that is your decision."_

Once again, Jager does not charge the farmer for his services.

_"The point was as stated by several people time and again,that alot of people whine and complain,and when they get asked for permission they turn people away.

I still fail to understand why you disapporove of giving a free hunt to someone who can help you with your problem,and admire the fact a man can use you to make money for himself at your expense?Maybe I am dumb when it comes to that..lol"_

Time and again you make reference to "fair chase,"  "sportsmanlike,"  etc.   Sport hunters cannot do us any good.  Giving a "free hunt" to someone who might or might not kill a hog or two isn't doing the farmer any good.  Again, people who are doing this for sport are absolutely no help.   The whining I hear is from people who want a free hunt.


_"I will say you don't let go when you bite on to something,much like me..lol,but can I ask you why would you not let me come hunt your farm if I signed a paper,helped you with chores,or paid you to hunt it?I have an excelllent reputation in my area,and I wouldn't disrespect you or your property.Why not let me come help?"_

1.  As I stated before, you wouldn't be any help.  I need someone to massacre hogs, not hunt them.

2.  PM me any time in January or February and you can hunt quail or rabbits with me.  No charge.  No chores.  No need to sign a paper.   Maybe you could help pay for a few quail, or if you have some good beagles, bring them.  I'll even feed you a wild hog supper.


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## bigreddwon (May 23, 2009)

If I change my views can I get a rabbit hunt and a dinner as well??  lol


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## Nicodemus (May 23, 2009)

We had a hog problem brought on to us once. Some ol` boys out of Savannah leased some land that bordered up on my cousins place. Our farm bordered my cousin, so what we did was a joint effort for the family. They decided that they needed more than deer, so they brought in a bunch of hogs, and turned em loose. They didn`t care one bit that those hogs took to our fields, where our crops were, and took away from the annual income that we depended on. 

After shootin` a few in the fields, and then havin` to drag em off, we found out that a shot in the lower guts, and the hog would leave the field under his own power, and never return. Those boys decided after that year, that they could find a more hospital place to hunt.

Bottom line...don`t mess with a mans honest income.


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## sghoghunter (May 23, 2009)

HOGDOG76 said:


> MAYBE I SHOULD START CHARGING YOU WHEN I TAKE YOU HUNTING ON THERMAL!


Thermal whats that?Is that some kind of night vision?


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## SELFBOW (May 23, 2009)

bigreddwon said:


> The way I see it, he didnt have to put a post up telling hunters who already screwed THEMSELVES outta good 'hunting' grounds, the best way to get BACK onto them. But he did, and every word was dripping in common sence and had a genreal underlying thread of "Lets all work together to change how were looked at as a whole". Its just not enough for some I guess.



YOU ARE RIGHT, he didn't have to but he got you SOLD on it 

He needs clients to make his program work.


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## bigreddwon (May 23, 2009)

I had been booked for many months prior to that post, or my even finding these forums for that matter.


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## Public Land Prowler (May 23, 2009)

LOL...Red I admire your in stone attitude.Don't you agree then massacre,plus a few hunting friends to put daytime pressure will do the trick.. 

BTW thanks for the invite.


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## bigreddwon (May 23, 2009)

"HOOoooo Yaaa PLP!


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## bull0ne (May 23, 2009)

*OINK*


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## Kawaliga (May 23, 2009)

Jager is getting a lot of advertising out of starting this thread. Didn't Hog Guide get kicked off the forum for plugging his business? Seems to me we have a situation here. One other point: there are a lot of hunters in Georgia that like to hunt hogs, some with dogs, and some walking them up. They have a right to the attitude that a hog is a game animal worthy of merit. Farmers also have a real problem with crop damage in SOME situations. That does not in itself justify the premise that all hogs should be eradicated. When anyone comes on this forum and and suggests that they have a method to eradicate hogs, it is only natural that people that like to hunt them are going to resist.


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## flahunter05 (May 25, 2009)

some of our problem is a few people giving us hog doggers a bad name we are just getting into hog hunting real big and we are getting some land to hunt because some of the farmers around here have caught other people catching them showing the farmer they caught some then going to the other side of the property and turning them back out. this makes all of us look bad and makes it hard for those of us that are doing right to get land to hunt but its like anything a couple of bad people make it hard on the honest people


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## sghoghunter (May 25, 2009)

flahunter05 said:


> some of our problem is a few people giving us hog doggers a bad name we are just getting into hog hunting real big and we are getting some land to hunt because some of the farmers around here have caught other people catching them showing the farmer they caught some then going to the other side of the property and turning them back out. this makes all of us look bad and makes it hard for those of us that are doing right to get land to hunt but its like anything a couple of bad people make it hard on the honest people


Amen brother


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## Dpsmith (May 27, 2009)

it seems as though jager started this thread and has now left it leaving everyone arguing! do yall even remember what the tread was started for or are yall just arguing back at the last thing someone wrote?!


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 28, 2009)

Dpsmith said:


> it seems as though jager started this thread and has now left it leaving everyone arguing! do yall even remember what the tread was started for or are yall just arguing back at the last thing someone wrote?!



answer is yes!  Everyone is trying to get the last word.  The ones who aren't either are trying to show some common sense and then there is a select few who just want to stir the pot and rile others up


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (May 28, 2009)

Dpsmith said:


> it seems as though jager started this thread and has now left it leaving everyone arguing! do yall even remember what the tread was started for or are yall just arguing back at the last thing someone wrote?!



answer is yes!  Everyone is trying to get the last word.  The ones who aren't either are trying to show some common sense and then there is a select few who just want to stir the pot and rile others up


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

Chad are you post padding?...lol..If we just make senseless posts will they lock it,or warn us for making senseless posts?

Only 5 more to nmake it to 200!


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

only 4 more to make 200


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

3 more


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

2 more


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

1 more


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

Woo hoo!


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## Public Land Prowler (May 28, 2009)

just for good measure..ok I am quitting with it..scouts honor


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## JBowers (Jun 1, 2009)

I just became aware of this thread and have not read its entirety.  All pesticides sold or used in the United States must be registered by EPA, based on scientific studies showing that they can be used without posing unreasonable risks to people or the environment.

The chemical Sodium Nitrite was mentioned in some earlier threads as a potential control tool for feral hogs.  Despite that some research has been conducted regarding the use of Sodium Nitrite as a potential chemical for controlling feral hogs, please be aware that Sodium Nitrite is not registered or labelled for use as a pesticide for control of feral hogs in the United States.

Use of such chemicals contrary to their registration or labelling is a violation of federal law under FIFRA (Federal Insecticide, Rodenticide and Fungicide Act).


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## Public Land Prowler (Jun 1, 2009)

some of these guys just put temic coated corn,and peanuts out...kills the yotes,and hogs,and anything else that eats it..one day they will get caught.I think if the dept.agriculture got involved they could do random checks on property,and evaluate the actual damage,and make sure this poisoning doesn't happen.


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## redlevel (Jun 1, 2009)

Public Land Prowler said:


> some of these guys just put temic coated corn,and peanuts out...kills the yotes,and hogs,and anything else that eats it..one day they will get caught.I think if the dept.agriculture got involved they could do random checks on property,and evaluate the actual damage,and make sure this poisoning doesn't happen.



I have seen a dog die from eating a Temik hamburger, and it ain't pretty.  I had a neighbor who put out Temic hamburger for the yotes.   I think it is a highly questionable practice,  certainly illegal, and I never did it.  I have seen several skunks die from digging peanut seed in the row where they were treated with Temic.  When I was row-cropping, it was the only chemical I handled that really scared me.


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## kornbread (Jun 1, 2009)

Public Land Prowler said:


> some of these guys just put temic coated corn,and peanuts out...kills the yotes,and hogs,and anything else that eats it..one day they will get caught.I think if the dept.agriculture got involved they could do random checks on property,and evaluate the actual damage,and make sure this poisoning doesn't happen.


i went to a field 2 weeks ago and the neibors property had put out timec and we seen about 14 hogs eating pnuts  but i wasnt about to throw out my dogs and 2 days ago seen the same hogs eating again they have became smarter and imune to it or like the farmer said they have figured a way to roll the pnut out of the hole before they eat it


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## CAL (Jun 1, 2009)

Temik is the very worst chemical I have ever had any dealings with.If ingested.............you DIE! There is no antidote for it.Not only that it will kill whatever eats the animal that died from it for 3 different times on down the line.Had a friend what farmed and a empty bag blew into his pasture,cattle licked the bag and killed three cows.Please,if you don't know how to handle it,leave it alone!
The chemical comes in two forms,a clay form and a corn cob form.Both forms are just carriers for the chemical.Stay clear of the stuff!


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## ROOSTER HOGGER (Jun 1, 2009)

Yall might get mad about this but if i saw someone do this at a place i was huntin  i would raise #@$%^^%# and hope the hogs ate all the crops


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## SELFBOW (Jun 1, 2009)

redlevel said:


> When I was row-cropping, it was the only chemical I handled that really scared me.



Are you saying you are not really a farmer anymore?


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Jun 1, 2009)

Sometimes this seems to be more like a Daisy Dude Thread.


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## Dpsmith (Jun 4, 2009)

yall can stay in here and fight it out but i called the bleckley county ext. office and got in touch with Mr. Lee and he said that he would talk to Mr. Nobles, and let him call me if he wanted the help, so we will see how bad he needs help. I would be def. willing to help the farmer out if he will call.


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## REDMOND1858 (Jun 4, 2009)

yep temik will drop em quick. the state man comes into where i work about once a month searching our records saying someone else has poisoned hogs deer dogs, its always something with temik. if you get caught you might as well sell your farm cause they will pretty much take it from you


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## HOGDOG76 (Jun 4, 2009)

kornbread said:


> i went to a field 2 weeks ago and the neibors property had put out timec and we seen about 14 hogs eating pnuts  but i wasnt about to throw out my dogs and 2 days ago seen the same hogs eating again they have became smarter and imune to it or like the farmer said they have figured a way to roll the pnut out of the hole before they eat it


 seen it done several times by farmers but have yet to see a dead hog from it.   Usually saw it mixed in a pile of corn and my dogs eat corn  i know they can be frustated by the crop damage but i wont put the dogs out until they shovel all the piles under.


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## skippygus73 (Jun 4, 2009)

I would just love for someone to let me come in and shoot 2 or 3 a year down here in southeast Ga.  I have my bow and  30-06 sighted in and ready to go.  Back home in Texas we have the same problem.  My brother is pretty dedicated to killing hogs.  One of his co-workers has some land with tons of hogs and lets him come out and shoot all he wants.  When he has time he puts down 2 a week.  At my wifes family place my dad n law trapped a dozen one night, but he is pretty soft and let them out.  But after that thou, they never came back.  So that stinks for me cause I don't have pigs to put down there.  So back to my original statement, I sure would like a place down here in Southeast Ga.


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