# No agenda



## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2016)

I have no agenda in asking this and will not respond further, I'm just curious, how different people groups see this election. Would you say that Atheist are mostly democrat, republican or divided? I ask this after having seen polls on different groups, regarding age, income, etc and wondered about other groups. Also, what other groups might I find interesting? ...... There are sportsmen, conservation, all kinds of groups, but my knowledge on groups is so limited. I need help to think outside of my circle

Edit, this is what I was referring to. Any other links like this would be appreciated
http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/


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## ambush80 (Oct 16, 2016)

1gr8bldr said:


> I have no agenda in asking this and will not respond further, I'm just curious, how different people groups see this election. Would you say that Atheist are mostly democrat, republican or divided? I ask this after having seen polls on different groups, regarding age, income, etc and wondered about other groups. Also, what other groups might I find interesting? ...... There are sportsmen, conservation, all kinds of groups, but my knowledge on groups is so limited. I need help to think outside of my circle
> 
> Edit, this is what I was referring to. Any other links like this would be appreciated
> http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/




Here is the atheist Sam Harris' forum:  

https://www.samharris.org/forum/viewforum/4/

From what I can tell, It's about 60% Hillary in there and 40% Trump.

I don't know anyone in my circle of friends and associates that is voting for Trump besides my wife's aunt in Ocala FL.  My Father in Law, who has always voted Republican for as long as I've known him isn't voting for Trump.  I don't know who he's voting for.  I think maybe my cousin's father in law might be voting for Trump, but that's it. He's not an atheist.

I don't think I've ever met an atheist republican.


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## bullethead (Oct 16, 2016)

While disappointed with all choices I cannot and will not vote for Hillary for at least a dozen reasons.
I have been a registered Republican since voting age yet have never voted a straight ticket. I try to do enough homework on each candidate so that I can make an educated decision. Trump will get my vote.


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## ambush80 (Oct 16, 2016)

bullethead said:


> While disappointed with all choices I cannot and will not vote for Hillary for at least a dozen reasons.
> I have been a registered Republican since voting age yet have never voted a straight ticket. I try to do enough homework on each candidate so that I can make an educated decision. Trump will get my vote.



What's the most truly dangerous thing, I mean something that could cause international war, that Hillary might do if she is President?  What if Trump becomes President?  Do you think he might cause international war?  What's the likelihood?


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## bullethead (Oct 16, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> What's the most truly dangerous thing, I mean something that could cause international war, that Hillary might do if she is President?  What if Trump becomes President?  Do you think he might cause international war?  What's the likelihood?


She, for her entire time in public office while she was supposed to be working for us, has lied, cheated, stolen, accepted money from foreign countries, gotten people killed and has committed treasonous acts. She is not fit for prison, let alone dog catcher, let alone president.
I am not worried about her or trump causing international war. Neither one can do it alone.
What worries me is her Supreme Court choices, her anti-gun agenda and her disregard for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. She will have the U.N. policing our citizens.
If there is a war, I fear it will start within our borders from unvetted refugees, foreign police, and the trampling of our rights.
The establisment on both sides have had free run for long enough and it is about time we elect officials that work for us first instead of themselves.


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## bullethead (Oct 16, 2016)

When turned 18 I could not wait to register to vote and have a chance to be heard and change the world. Now at 47 I want to disassociate myself with all political parties. In school I was taught every vote counted. They do not.
No matter how good their intentions are while new to office these politicians are soon only concerned about themselves once elected. Their first order of business is to get re-elected. A close 2nd is what they have to do in order to pay back the lobbyists and special interest groups that sunk tens of millions of dollars into a job that pays under $200,000. Then around election time they throw out just enough of a bone as if they care about their constituents in order to sway voters to get their votes.
Problem is, and especially the last two elections, is that the people who are a burden on society for 3 years and 364 days, come out in droves to vote for who is promising to give them the most "free" stuff...without having a clue on how expensive "free" is for many others that have to pay for their entitlements.
The politicians are out of touch with the people that they are supposed to represent. I am convinced that we need a fresh batch of politicians in there, no incumbents, no career politicians trying to step up in rank, we need anybody in there but another person that has made tens..if not hundreds of millions of dollars while working for us at a salary that pays less than $200,000.
I'll take a businessman, a doctor, a plumber or anyone that has been successful outside of politics. I have had enough of career politicians and especially the ones that take an oath to uphold the Constitution and instead are constantly trying to change it.


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## bullethead (Oct 16, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> What's the most truly dangerous thing, I mean something that could cause international war, that Hillary might do if she is President?  What if Trump becomes President?  Do you think he might cause international war?  What's the likelihood?


And don't count out a war with Russia before any election takes place. The current prez would love another term under martial law.


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## stringmusic (Oct 16, 2016)

bullethead said:


> She, for her entire time in public office while she was supposed to be working for us, has lied, cheated, stolen, accepted money from foreign countries, gotten people killed and has committed treasonous acts. She is not fit for prison, let alone dog catcher, let alone president.
> I am not worried about her or trump causing international war. Neither one can do it alone.
> What worries me is her Supreme Court choices, her anti-gun agenda and her disregard for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. She will have the U.N. policing our citizens.
> If there is a war, I fear it will start within our borders from unvetted refugees, foreign police, and the trampling of our rights.
> The establisment on both sides have had free run for long enough and it is about time we elect officials that work for us first instead of themselves.





bullethead said:


> When turned 18 I could not wait to register to vote and have a chance to be heard and change the world. Now at 47 I want to disassociate myself with all political parties. In school I was taught every vote counted. They do not.
> No matter how good their intentions are while new to office these politicians are soon only concerned about themselves once elected. Their first order of business is to get re-elected. A close 2nd is what they have to do in order to pay back the lobbyists and special interest groups that sunk tens of millions of dollars into a job that pays under $200,000. Then around election time they throw out just enough of a bone as if they care about their constituents in order to sway voters to get their votes.
> Problem is, and especially the last two elections, is that the people who are a burden on society for 3 years and 364 days, come out in droves to vote for who is promising to give them the most "free" stuff...without having a clue on how expensive "free" is for many others that have to pay for their entitlements.
> The politicians are out of touch with the people that they are supposed to represent. I am convinced that we need a fresh batch of politicians in there, no incumbents, no career politicians trying to step up in rank, we need anybody in there but another person that has made tens..if not hundreds of millions of dollars while working for us at a salary that pays less than $200,000.
> I'll take a businessman, a doctor, a plumber or anyone that has been successful outside of politics. I have had enough of career politicians and especially the ones that take an oath to uphold the Constitution and instead are constantly trying to change it.



That'll preach brother.


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## 660griz (Oct 17, 2016)

I have always voted republican. I am actually for less government / more personal responsibility. Republicans are as close as I can get. I do hate when they bring social issues like abortion, into the race because I think it hurts their chances. 
I'll vote for Trump over Hillary even if he is taped clubbing seals and eating puppies. 
The alternative is a 3rd world America...coming soon.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

stringmusic said:


> That'll preach brother.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

660griz said:


> I have always voted republican. I am actually for less government / more personal responsibility. Republicans are as close as I can get. I do hate when they bring social issues like abortion, into the race because I think it hurts their chances.
> I'll vote for Trump over Hillary even if he is taped clubbing seals and eating puppies.
> The alternative is a 3rd world America...coming soon.


I agree.
How BAD has the GOP gotten that Trump beat out 16 of their establishment candidates.!?!?The people have sent a clear message to the Repubs....problem is that the leadership is continuing on as if they know better.

And along your lines....I dont care what Trump said or did while a private citizen.  I care what he does while working for us. Hitlery has shown us 30 years of her style while she worked for us, I do not want to find out how she elevates her levels once she holds the highest office. She is everything we do not need and cannot affford in a public position.


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2016)

Trump seems dumber than anyone I know.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2016)

Would the Republican Party fair better in elections if they moved away from being conservative on social issues while remaining conservative on economic issues? 
Remain fiscally conservative with a strong military. Try to steer our country back to less government intervention and states rights.
Stop aligning itself with evangelical Christians on social issues. 
Align itself more with the middle class instead of the upper class or the lower class. We're the ones who pay for most of everything in government anyway.


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## 660griz (Oct 17, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> We're the ones who pay for most of everything in government anyway.



Technically, the 'rich' pay over 50% of all taxes and make up probably 2% of the population.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> I agree.
> How BAD has the GOP gotten that Trump beat out 16 of their establishment candidates.!?!?The people have sent a clear message to the Repubs....problem is that the leadership is continuing on as if they know better.
> 
> And along your lines....I dont care what Trump said or did while a private citizen.  I care what he does while working for us. Hitlery has shown us 30 years of her style while she worked for us, I do not want to find out how she elevates her levels once she holds the highest office. She is everything we do not need and cannot affford in a public position.



I am thoroughly disgusted by our current situation.  I don't think there is going to be a good outcome to which ever clown gets in office. So much emphasis is placed on our right to vote.  We hear all the time -if you don't vote you can't complain-.  Well, this time might be different. I am thinking more and more my protest to this cluster---- will be to not vote. I don't want either one, and Gary Johnson gives off a crazy vibe. So yeah.    

I really wanted to like Trump. I don't care about his bedroom or locker room exploits. But name one truely intelligent person that speaks the way he does.  Oh, let me tell you.  I know words.  I know lots of words.  Many, many words.  Words are important.  I use words every day.  Holy crap it makes my ears bleed. 

Seriously.  I cannot stomach watching him or listening to him. I turn the channel every time. 

And Hillary?  She needs to stop existing.  I'm not saying anything bad should happen, but if the cosmic fairy dude could just do a little erase, erase, that would be great.


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## 660griz (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> I am thoroughly disgusted by our current situation.  I don't think there is going to be a good outcome to which ever clown gets in office. So much emphasis is placed on our right to vote.  We hear all the time -if you don't vote you can't complain-.  Well, this time might be different. I am thinking more and more my protest to this cluster---- will be to not vote. I don't want either one, and Gary Johnson gives off a crazy vibe. So yeah.
> 
> I really wanted to like Trump. I don't care about his bedroom or locker room exploits. But name one truely intelligent person that speaks the way he does.  Oh, let me tell you.  I know words.  I know lots of words.  Many, many words.  Words are important.  I use words every day.  Holy crap it makes my ears bleed.
> 
> ...



Amen. I just hope Trey Gowdy runs for POTUS next.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Trump seems dumber than anyone I know.


And yet here is. 
In all honesty he does come off as brash, ignorant and rude if not dumb. I agree. He has a NY city flare and attitude.  But he is a successful business man that has not been a career politician. A president is only as good as the people they surround themself with.
Obarry...well you see the chicago style politicians he has in his cabinets...
Hitlary,...read the emails to see who surrounds her and is part of entourage and who is in line for positions because of favors instead of qualifications.
Trump may be better, as bad, or worse. I just do not know. But i know what we are getting with Hitlary. She has given us 30 years of evidence. If she is for the poor why are there still poor? She IS the 1% she rallies against. Everything Bernie said about her was true and yet the DNC is so corrupt even he backs her.

ANYBODY but Hillary.


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> I am thoroughly disgusted by our current situation.  I don't think there is going to be a good outcome to which ever clown gets in office. So much emphasis is placed on our right to vote.  We hear all the time -if you don't vote you can't complain-.  Well, this time might be different. I am thinking more and more my protest to this cluster---- will be to not vote. I don't want either one, and Gary Johnson gives off a crazy vibe. So yeah.
> 
> I really wanted to like Trump. I don't care about his bedroom or locker room exploits. But name one truely intelligent person that speaks the way he does.  Oh, let me tell you.  I know words.  I know lots of words.  Many, many words.  Words are important.  I use words every day.  Holy crap it makes my ears bleed.
> 
> ...



  I could hear him.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> I am thoroughly disgusted by our current situation.  I don't think there is going to be a good outcome to which ever clown gets in office. So much emphasis is placed on our right to vote.  We hear all the time -if you don't vote you can't complain-.  Well, this time might be different. I am thinking more and more my protest to this cluster---- will be to not vote. I don't want either one, and Gary Johnson gives off a crazy vibe. So yeah.
> 
> I really wanted to like Trump. I don't care about his bedroom or locker room exploits. But name one truely intelligent person that speaks the way he does.  Oh, let me tell you.  I know words.  I know lots of words.  Many, many words.  Words are important.  I use words every day.  Holy crap it makes my ears bleed.
> 
> ...



He sounds like EVERY NY city person I ever met.


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> He sounds like EVERY NY city person I ever met.



It's not the way he talks, his accent, it's the way he organizes (disorganizes) his thoughts.  He sounds dumber than anyone I know.


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> And yet here is.
> In all honesty he does come off as brash, ignorant and rude if not dumb. I agree. He has a NY city flare and attitude.  But he is a successful business man that has not been a career politician. A president is only as good as the people they surround themself with.
> Obarry...well you see the chicago style politicians he has in his cabinets...
> Hitlary,...read the emails to see who surrounds her and is part of entourage and who is in line for positions because of favors instead of qualifications.
> ...



I'd rather my neighbor's daughter who is a freshman in college be President than Trump.  She'd have the good sense to shut up and listen to the "grown ups".


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## drippin' rock (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> He sounds like EVERY NY city person I ever met.



That's great.  It doesn't translate to the rest of America though.  Don't you think that's important?  Shouldn't his handlers have recognized that and trained him up a little?  

I defended him in the beginning, saying look how smart his kids are!  That's a sign of a smart father.  What I realized later is it is a sign of smart mothers, nannies, and tutors. It must be.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 17, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> It's not the way he talks, his accent, it's the way he organizes (disorganizes) his thoughts.  He sounds dumber than anyone I know.



Take this latest volley of women he supposedly accosted.  I could think of any number of responses to such allegations, but what does he say?  "Look at her!  She'd not be my first choice, let me tell you." It made grey matter leak out my ears.


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2016)

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...an-sarandon-clinton-more-dangerous-than-trump


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> It's not the way he talks, his accent, it's the way he organizes (disorganizes) his thoughts.  He sounds dumber than anyone I know.



I was not talking about an accent...
"Believe me" "so yuuge" " so great"....etc etc etc
Thats the stuff I was taking about. And it seems to be a NYC thing...not the whole state.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I'd rather my neighbor's daughter who is a freshman in college be President than Trump.  She'd have the good sense to shut up and listen to the "grown ups".



Hey I'll vote for your neighbors daughter too. I'd rather not Trump or Hillary be president, but the sad truth is it will be one of those two. Out of those two, I'm voting for Trump. He is as bad as you say, but in my mind he is still better than Hillary.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> That's great.  It doesn't translate to the rest of America though.  Don't you think that's important?  Shouldn't his handlers have recognized that and trained him up a little?
> 
> I defended him in the beginning, saying look how smart his kids are!  That's a sign of a smart father.  What I realized later is it is a sign of smart mothers, nannies, and tutors. It must be.


Agreed drippin...i fully agree.

With the way our current system is set up, it is going to be a Republican or a Democrat that is elected. Sadly, in this election it is Hillary or Trump. In any other aspect of life I wouldnt whizz on either if they were on fire, or even try to put out the flames with a hatchet.
Like with the rest of the GOP, the people chise him to be the best of the worst, and in a Trump vs Clinton choice I am choosing him.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> I was not talking about an accent...
> "Believe me" "so yuuge" " so great"....etc etc etc
> Thats the stuff I was taking about. And it seems to be a NYC thing...not the whole state.



I worked in DC with a couple of upstate NY boys back in the 90s. What a shock!  They were more country than I was. Hunted, fished, trapped, the whole package. My sheltered southern upbringing had me thinking NYC was representative of the whole state. Was glad to discover the opposite.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> Agreed drippin...i fully agree.
> 
> With the way our current system is set up, it is going to be a Republican or a Democrat that is elected. Sadly, in this election it is Hillary or Trump. In any other aspect of life I wouldnt whizz on either if they were on fire, or even try to put out the flames with a hatchet.
> Like with the rest of the GOP, the people chise him to be the best of the worst, and in a Trump vs Clinton choice I am choosing him.




If I do decide to vote, I'll be holding my nose so tight I might pass out before I hang the chad.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> I worked in DC with a couple of upstate NY boys back in the 90s. What a shock!  They were more country than I was. Hunted, fished, trapped, the whole package. My sheltered southern upbringing had me thinking NYC was representative of the whole state. Was glad to discover the opposite.


The state of NY should give the city to New Jersey and be done with it. The city gives the rest of the state a bad reputation..and unfortunately governs the entire state because of the population. Dang near everything outside of nyc is spectacular.

I would move to upstate NY in a heartbeat if it were not for the restrictions on magazine capacity etc etc. It is an outdoorsmans paradise.


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## 660griz (Oct 17, 2016)

bullethead said:


> Agreed drippin...i fully agree.
> 
> With the way our current system is set up, it is going to be a Republican or a Democrat that is elected.



The Democrat agenda is to get more voters, legal or illegal, to ensure a Democratic win for years to come. 
More promises of free stuff to anybody.
Hillary as said she will increase the refugee population and wants open borders. 
Hold on to your bible boys.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

660griz said:


> The Democrat agenda is to get more voters, legal or illegal, to ensure a Democratic win for years to come.
> More promises of free stuff to anybody.
> Hillary as said she will increase the refugee population and wants open borders.
> Hold on to your bible boys.


Absolutely spot on.
Bring in more voters under the guise of humanitarian gestures. These refugees and illegal immigrants are just more burdens on the already burdened working class. They will get benefits for free while others that work for their benefits find themselves constantly paying more for less.
No voter I.D. needed but yet I.D. is needed for every other program that allows the burdens to get their benefits. Things that make me go hmmmmmm.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 17, 2016)

As far as I'm concerned its a choice between crap and feces.
Dont trust Hillary and Trump is proving to be psychotic.
Dont think I can vote for either one.


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## bullethead (Oct 17, 2016)

WaltL1 said:


> As far as I'm concerned its a choice between crap and feces.
> Dont trust Hillary and Trump is proving to be psychotic.
> Dont think I can vote for either one.



I seriously considered not voting. But, even in the best years that voters turn out to vote it is roughly only half of all registered voters. I feel better about ranting if I go to the polls.


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## Israel (Oct 17, 2016)

drippin' rock said:


> I worked in DC with a couple of upstate NY boys back in the 90s. What a shock!  They were more country than I was. Hunted, fished, trapped, the whole package. My sheltered southern upbringing had me thinking NYC was representative of the whole state. Was glad to discover the opposite.


  Born in NYC, raised on LI...got outta Dodge for upstate NY, ASAP (Columbia County) to work on a dairy farm...spent many a deer season trying to feel if my toes were still there.
Lotsa folks would be surprised to learn how little of NY is actually asphalt and high rise.


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2016)

Israel said:


> Born in NYC, raised on LI...got outta Dodge for upstate NY, ASAP (Columbia County) to work on a dairy farm...spent many a deer season trying to feel if my toes were still there.
> Lotsa folks would be surprised to learn how little of NY is actually asphalt and high rise.



I worked with a guy in Michigan while I was in the USAF. He sounded a little country but, I knew he wasn't a southern boy. I asked where he was from, he said New York, I asked, "City?", he got upset.  
There are good ol boys in most every state.


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## Israel (Oct 18, 2016)

660griz said:


> I worked with a guy in Michigan while I was in the USAF. He sounded a little country but, I knew he wasn't a southern boy. I asked where he was from, he said New York, I asked, "City?", he got upset.
> There are good ol boys in most every state.



305X1...Navaids...or as it came to be called Tracals


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2016)

Israel said:


> 305X1...Navaids...or as it came to be called Tracals



Good memory. 34154 Flight Sims. B-52, then PMEL, then Computerized Avionics Testing, F-16.


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## SemperFiDawg (Oct 18, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Here is the atheist Sam Harris' forum:
> 
> https://www.samharris.org/forum/viewforum/4/
> 
> ...



60/40 huh?  Well so much for those "Free Thinker" and "Enlightened" labels they love to drape upon themselves.


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## bullethead (Oct 18, 2016)

SemperFiDawg said:


> 60/40 huh?  Well so much for those "Free Thinker" and "Enlightened" labels they love to drape upon themselves.


I'll have to agree with you SFD.


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## SemperFiDawg (Oct 18, 2016)

I know the gang here so please nobody get offended, but has anyone considered the Constitution party?  I get the feeling most of you guys would be put off by their strong Religious leanings, but I also know most of you are solidly behind the strict interpretation of the Constitution and pro Liberty.  That is the parties strong suit.  Just curious.


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2016)

bullethead said:


> I'll have to agree with you SFD.



Yep. Some(maybe most) atheist associate Republican with religious fanatics and will fight common sense to not vote Republican. Sad.


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2016)

SemperFiDawg said:


> strict interpretation of the Constitution and pro Liberty.



Sounds good to me so far.
Get one to run as a Republican.


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## SemperFiDawg (Oct 18, 2016)

I honestly can't vote for either major party candidate.  I'm voting for Darrell Castle, the Constitution Party candidate.


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## SemperFiDawg (Oct 18, 2016)

660griz said:


> Yep. Some(maybe most) atheist associate Republican with religious fanatics and will fight common sense to not vote Republican. Sad.



You Athiest are religious fanatics.  It's just a different religion.


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## bullethead (Oct 18, 2016)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You Athiest are religious fanatics.  It's just a different religion.



Stayin as classy as ever


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2016)

It was said that many blacks voted for Obama just because he was black. That being said he is only half black and Democrat which means he'd get most their votes anyway. I'm sure it did get more blacks to the polls.

In that same logic many women will vote for Hillary just to finally have  a female president.

I wonder how many Atheist would vote for the first Atheist that runs for president, just because he's Atheist? Perhaps even Hindu to overturn the apple cart.


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## bullethead (Oct 18, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> It was said that many blacks voted for Obama just because he was black. That being said he is only half black and Democrat which means he'd get most their votes anyway. I'm sure it did get more blacks to the polls.
> 
> In that same logic many women will vote for Hillary just to finally have  a female president.
> 
> I wonder how many Atheist would vote for the first Atheist that runs for president, just because he's Atheist? Perhaps even Hindu to overturn the apple cart.


If he/she was an Atheist that was anti gun, anti 2nd amendment, anti constitution etc etc.. No vote from me.

If it was an Atheist that had Hillary’s record, No Way would I vote for them.

If it was a Bible banger that was pro guns, pro 2nd, pro constitution, would do everything possible to weed out the corruption in politics
and had a LEGITIMATE chance of getting elected....they'd get my vote.

I do not think there is a perfect candidate that "has it all " I do not think under the current system one could make it very far..if exist at all.. so I have to choose from what is available and has a chance to actually get elected.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 18, 2016)

bullethead said:


> If he/she was an Atheist that was anti gun, anti 2nd amendment, anti constitution etc etc.. No vote from me.
> 
> If it was an Atheist that had Hillary’s record, No Way would I vote for them.
> 
> ...



I'm amazed at the criteria some people use to choose a candidate instead of how they stand on the issues and the moral character of the person.

Particularly choosing by the candidates sex, color, home state, looks, religion(or lack there of), or sexual preference.


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## JB0704 (Oct 18, 2016)

I did a write in 4 years ago, am considering the same this time.  I generally vote R on the federal level, have voted for a few D's locally and at least one federal race that I can remember.    

I don't think Trump is dumb.  I think he is very, very bad at communicating thoughts in a way that is meant to be taken seriously.  He is a reality TV star.  I also think it is ridiculous that all these women came outta nowhere in perfect timing with the video.  It is obvious what happened there to anybody who is even remotely objective.  That being said, the man is a crude pig of a human being.  This election is like a bad joke.


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## JB0704 (Oct 18, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> I'm amazed at the criteria some people use to choose a candidate instead of how they stand on the issues and the moral character of the person.



Issues and the impact of their positions on the country is what matters to me. Primarily their view of the constitution.  In this particular race, one sees the constitution as a hindrance, the other isn't really sure what it says.


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## bullethead (Oct 19, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> I'm amazed at the criteria some people use to choose a candidate instead of how they stand on the issues and the moral character of the person.
> 
> Particularly choosing by the candidates sex, color, home state, looks, religion(or lack there of), or sexual preference.



I have heard people admit that they voted for a person because of the colors on a campaign sign. "My grandson likes LSU and there was a campaign sign that was purple and yellow..so that's  who I voted for.."
And I have heard this about each party getting straight votes for a lifetime because "Back in 1934, Representative so and so got my pap a job at the #11 mine so I have voted straight (insert Dem or Repub)  ever since..."
It really is amazing how people rationalize a vote.


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## 660griz (Oct 19, 2016)

SemperFiDawg said:


> You Athiest are religious fanatics.  It's just a different religion.



 Heavy sigh.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 19, 2016)

Some folks vote according to who their organizations tell them to vote. This could be a Church, the AARP, a union, hunting club, extended family, etc.

What about women who vote for whom their husband tells them to vote? My sister-in-law doesn't do any research and her husband gives her a list. She just blindly votes his list.


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## SemperFiDawg (Oct 19, 2016)

bullethead said:


> Stayin as classy as ever



Hey.  It was in jest.  You guys have a good deer season and stay safe.


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## bullethead (Oct 19, 2016)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Hey.  It was in jest.  You guys have a good deer season and stay safe.



Same to you. Best of luck.


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## 660griz (Oct 19, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder how many Atheist would vote for the first Atheist that runs for president, just because he's Atheist? Perhaps even Hindu to overturn the apple cart.



For me anyway, it depends on their stance on issues that mean the most to me. Their religion, or lack of it, doesn't play into it. Unless they are muslim.


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## drippin' rock (Oct 19, 2016)

bullethead said:


> I have heard people admit that they voted for a person because of the colors on a campaign sign. "My grandson likes LSU and there was a campaign sign that was purple and yellow..so that's  who I voted for.."
> And I have heard this about each party getting straight votes for a lifetime because "Back in 1934, Representative so and so got my pap a job at the #11 mine so I have voted straight (insert Dem or Repub)  ever since..."
> It really is amazing how people rationalize a vote.


My father in law votes democrat because his father voted that way. I approached him about it one time listing off individual issues. For nearly every issue he was republican. When I pointed that out he got mad. Still votes democrat. SMH.


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## East River Guide (Oct 19, 2016)

bullethead said:


> And it seems to be a NYC thing.



Got to love religion and politics in the same thread.

But that isn't a NYC thing.  Many if not most of the people in NYC are thoughtful, literate, and speak in comprehensible sentences.


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## bullethead (Oct 19, 2016)

East River Guide said:


> Got to love religion and politics in the same thread.
> 
> But that isn't a NYC thing.  Many if not most of the people in NYC are thoughtful, literate, and speak in comprehensible sentences.



Maybe so....., i can only relate to the ones that I have had interaction with.


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## 660griz (Oct 20, 2016)

East River Guide said:


> Many if not most of the people in NYC are thoughtful, literate, and speak in comprehensible sentences.



Impressive.
I live in a really small town and I haven't spoken to most of the people. You must really get around.


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## East River Guide (Oct 20, 2016)

660griz said:


> Impressive.
> I live in a really small town and I haven't spoken to most of the people. You must really get around.



I do, but no need to actually 

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm


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## Israel (Oct 20, 2016)

A very New York sensibility.


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## atlashunter (Oct 26, 2016)

I think most atheists tend to be liberal. A good number of libertarians are atheist but they are always in the minority. I'm sure there are conservative atheists too but I can't think of any.


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## atlashunter (Oct 26, 2016)

East River Guide said:


> Got to love religion and politics in the same thread.
> 
> But that isn't a NYC thing.  Many if not most of the people in NYC are thoughtful, literate, and speak in comprehensible sentences.



I'll take your word for it. I've been all over the world and many places I still want to see. New York isn't one of them.


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## East River Guide (Oct 27, 2016)

atlashunter said:


> I'll take your word for it. I've been all over the world and many places I still want to see. New York isn't one of them.


Fair enough.  I don't think cities are much to "see" anyway.   But for some people NYC is a fabulous place to live, more so than to visit.


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## GunnSmokeer (Oct 28, 2016)

I predict that most atheists are Republican / Libertarian because
 (1) these are the parties that say they're for smaller government, and atheists are all about nobody telling them what they can or can't do. No rules. 
Except for sexual issues (homosexuality, fornication, smut on TV) the GOP tends to be the party of smaller government and "let the people do whatever."   Democrats regulate EV-RY-THING.

(2) Atheists tend to favor lower taxes. Democrats love taxes and can never get enough. It's like crack cocaine for them. 

(3) Atheists tend to be self-sufficient and believe in letting people suffer the consequences of their own actions (and they say they're OK with going to  (H.E. double hockey sticks) or just being eternally alienated from God if they're wrong about Him.    Democrats don't ever thing people should take any responsibility for any unwise actions or choices they make. The government's gotta bail people out.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2016)

GunnSmokeer said:


> I predict that most atheists are Republican / Libertarian because
> (1) these are the parties that say they're for smaller government, and atheists are all about nobody telling them what they can or can't do. No rules.
> Except for sexual issues (homosexuality, fornication, smut on TV) the GOP tends to be the party of smaller government and "let the people do whatever."   Democrats regulate EV-RY-THING.
> 
> ...



The number of atheists that I know is slightly higher than the national average because of the area I live in and the types of people that I tend to hang out with.  I would say that they are split between Democrat and Libertarian.

They don't seem to value tradition as much as progress, by that I mean scientific and intellectual advancement and are put off by some hard line Republican stances that seem anti-intellectual.


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## JB0704 (Oct 28, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> ......are put off by some hard line Republican stances that seem anti-intellectual.



For instance?  The reason I ask is that, from my perspective, much of the liberal ideology from an economic perspective is also anti-intellectual, disregards history, and is based in moral assessments rather than freedom.  

For instance....."fair share" cannot be measured without making a moral assessment.  Yet, the same people who say folks should pay their "fair share" will scream and cry over legislated morality   Progressive economic policy is nothing but legislated morality, yet because it is "progressive" it is declared enlightened.  

I tend to think the most enlightened stance is the one that trends to freedom......in ALL aspects of life where one's actions do not impact the life or property of another.  This means freedom to do things that I would deem unacceptable in my own life.  The only way for everything to be "fair" is for everybody to be as free as possible in the context of a civilized society.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> For instance?  The reason I ask is that, from my perspective, much of the liberal ideology from an economic perspective is also anti-intellectual, disregards history, and is based in moral assessments rather than freedom.
> 
> For instance....."fair share" cannot be measured without making a moral assessment.  Yet, the same people who say folks should pay their "fair share" will scream and cry over legislated morality   Progressive economic policy is nothing but legislated morality, yet because it is "progressive" it is declared enlightened.
> 
> I tend to think the most enlightened stance is the one that trends to freedom......in ALL aspects of life where one's actions do not impact the life or property of another.  This means freedom to do things that I would deem unacceptable in my own life.  The only way for everything to be "fair" is for everybody to be as free as possible in the context of a civilized society.



I was thinking of Ben Carson.  He would have to have a pretty rock solid economic plan for me to overlook the fact that he thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> For instance?  The reason I ask is that, from my perspective, much of the liberal ideology from an economic perspective is also anti-intellectual, disregards history, and is based in moral assessments rather than freedom.
> 
> For instance....."fair share" cannot be measured without making a moral assessment.  Yet, the same people who say folks should pay their "fair share" will scream and cry over legislated morality   Progressive economic policy is nothing but legislated morality, yet because it is "progressive" it is declared enlightened.
> 
> I tend to think the most enlightened stance is the one that trends to freedom......in ALL aspects of life where one's actions do not impact the life or property of another.  This means freedom to do things that I would deem unacceptable in my own life.  The only way for everything to be "fair" is for everybody to be as free as possible in the context of a civilized society.



I think it's important to look at individual ideas and not lump them all together.


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## JB0704 (Oct 28, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I think it's important to look at individual ideas and not lump them all together.



Perhaps.  In politics there seems to be just 3 camps, and everybody belongs in one to certain degrees.   My thoughts on liberal ideology are generally aimed at their economic ideas.  I would likely agree with most progressives on many other topics, but that would be due to my libertarian streak.


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## JB0704 (Oct 28, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> I was thinking of Ben Carson.  He would have to have a pretty rock solid economic plan for me to overlook the fact that he thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old.



And, for me, I don't really care what a person thinks about the Earth's age or their view of origins if his / her economic ideas are correct.  I would vote for an atheist the same as a Baptist if they lined up correctly on the issues.

BTW.....PM returned a few days back.


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## bullethead (Oct 28, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> The number of atheists that I know is slightly higher than the national average because of the area I live in and the types of people that I tend to hang out with.  I would say that they are split between Democrat and Libertarian.
> 
> They don't seem to value tradition as much as progress, by that I mean scientific and intellectual advancement and are put off by some hard line Republican stances that seem anti-intellectual.


I know a lot of Doctors. Most are atheists and most of the rest are agnostic. All are Republicans.


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