# For those who have been filled,overcame or slain in the spirit.



## SemperFiDawg (May 24, 2017)

Please tell of you experience.  

I was in the Bathroom, standing in only my fruit of the looms, getting dressed in a Baptismal robe in the Mormon Church nonetheless and all of a sudden boom.  This POWERFUL presence came over me that I never wanted to end.  My eyes were opened.  It truly was like scales fell off or someone pulled back the curtains of my understanding of exactly who Jesus was.  It was a testimony albeit from the Holy Spirit.  I don't know how long it lasted.  Maybe several minutes, but it stamped my soul.   I left the Mormon Church later as I felt that their teaching were I'm err.  

Why was I saved there then?  I think it's because it was where I made the decision to accept Christ.  As a result of this I feel that God doesn't save based on how much we think we know, but how respond to what we do know. It's truly Christ and Christ crucified.  

I have been filled once since then but that's another story.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 24, 2017)

41 views and not a single comment?  Was it something I said?  The tighty whiteys maybe?


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## ky55 (May 24, 2017)

Well, since nobody has replied I'll throw out a comment just for the sake of discussion. 

I have friends and aquaintences who have felt some of the above mentioned phenomena..
Like a presence, a testimony, or some sort of a sudden and intense spiritual and emotional awakening. 

It always seemed to be directly opposite of the folks who changed their opinions in the opposite direction-from religion to atheism. 
Those folks always seemed to take their time and look at both sides of the issue logically and intelligently before coming to a well-thought-out and intelligent decision.


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## formula1 (May 24, 2017)

*re:*

A great story SemperFiDawg!  God is amazing!

June 9, 1982  and I will never forget.  Sorry, I did not see this but I haven't been on until now.  I was saved at 13 and baptized in water at 15.  I thought things were done and I was set until things didn't work like I expected.  It drove me to extreme depression and alcoholism.  That song, 'I Drink Alone', was me.  I hate that song today.

On this particular evening, God spoke to me, a traditional Southern Baptist at the time, not audibly but in my Spirit.  He spoke to me only this, 'Do you want to live like your Dad and end up dead or do you want to follow me?'

That's it! I was simply given a choice and had been brought to a place of brokenness. Can you imagine my surprise as an SB?  I remember telling the Lord yes and I was just worn out and tired of the battle.  Upon that confession,  I began to speak in a language (as far as I could tell) that I did not understand.  What I later learned was that is what many called Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  I learned that after the fact from my Baptist pastor who confirmed its truth with scripture to me.  He also mentioned to me that he had shared a similar experience.  He encouraged me to get into the Scriptures and learn all I could.  Focus on God and His love for me, not on the gift is what he said.

On that day June 9, 1982, I was freed from severe depression and alcoholism.  Well,  all I can say is I have never been the same since!  The best scriptural definition I can give you for this is Acts 19. 

God Bless!


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## Israel (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> 41 views and not a single comment?  Was it something I said?  The tighty whiteys maybe?



It is, sometimes, that some experiences of Jesus Christ, His presence, His manifestation of Himself in such power to a child/brother of His own, one of kin...is so powerful, so intensely personal, so undeniably a gift of true "unexpectedness" and perfection in delivery and deliverance, and also so very very "otherworldly" (for lack of a better word..."supernatural" in its true sense is perfect...but it seems to drag now with it some baggage, not of its own doing) that one can sometimes be reluctant.
There comes a subtle line we may learn...between parade and simple sharing. It was 14 years before Paul felt free to share of the one he knew who was taken to the third heaven. Even then he made it a matter of third person, and rightly so. 

Yes, we can wonder of whom he spoke, seeming to us of some import. Was it indeed Paul? Or some other? But Paul knew, as does God, and indeed his censure of certain things...even in that experience...speaks to us. 

Yes, Paul had learned the difference, though completely free...of things lawful...and things expedient. And he preferred to seek only the expedient in his testimony.

Perhaps this is why, in some measure, some may be reluctant. But I also say this regarding the two testimonies I do read here, I rejoice with you in them, understand them as "pearls" given by the Bridegroom to His beloved(s). And appreciate you both all the more for _simply_ sharing them.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

formula1 said:


> A great story SemperFiDawg!  God is amazing!
> 
> June 9, 1982  and I will never forget.  Sorry, I did not see this but I haven't been on until now.  I was saved at 13 and baptized in water at 15.  I thought things were done and I was set until things didn't work like I expected.  It drove me to extreme depression and alcoholism.  That song, 'I Drink Alone', was me.  I hate that song today.
> 
> ...



I was 14, and it was 20 years later before I realized what had happened to me and I probably wouldn't have then if I didn't start visiting a Pentecostal church and really look closer into the book of Acts.  I remain in a Baptist Church, but readily accept the Pentecostal views on gifts of the Spirit.  Why the Baptist are not pro-active in their recognition if it is beyond me, but that's for another thread.


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## formula1 (May 25, 2017)

*re:*

Israel,  I understand much of what you say and I agree with you and I must admit I was quite hesitant.

Yet I am also compelled to be transparent to the Praise and Glory of our Lord most High, who saw me where I was and pursued me relentlessly.  I have never been worthy of such pursuit!  But through the Grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ this adopted son was brought back from darkness to light!  A story that is worthy to be told I think for the benefit of those who may be distant and need to hear this plea, 'COME HOME'!


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

formula1 said:


> Israel,  I understand much of what you say and I agree with you and I must admit I was quite hesitant.
> 
> Yet I am also compelled to be transparent to the Praise and Glory of our Lord most High, who saw me where I was and pursued me relentlessly.  I have never been worthy of such pursuit!  But through the Grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ this adopted son was brought back from darkness to light!  A story that is worthy to be told I think for the benefit of those who may be distant and need to hear this plea, 'COME HOME'!



Your Post reminded me of this poem



> THE HOUND OF HEAVEN
> Francis Thompson
> 
> I fled Him, down the nights and down the days;
> ...


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## Israel (May 25, 2017)

Is my gloom, after all,
Shade of His hand, outstretched caressingly?
'Ah, fondest, blindest, weakest,
I am He Whom thou seekest!
Thou dravest love from thee, who dravest Me.'


Ahhhh!....This then is the beginning of understanding...and discerning good and evil!


What seems a darkness...is sometimes...entirely something else!


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Well, since nobody has replied I'll throw out a comment just for the sake of discussion.
> 
> I have friends and aquaintences who have felt some of the above mentioned phenomena..
> Like a presence, a testimony, or some sort of a sudden and intense spiritual and emotional awakening.
> ...



Is this your way of saying your "friends and acquaintances" who have felt this are unstable and unintelligent? If so you are a couple of threads late, but I suggest you link up with hobbs.  Your beliefs or more accurately, disbelief's, are very similar: as is the remedy.


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## j_seph (May 25, 2017)

As the captain posted on FB Sunday, it is like a radiator, once it gets hot inside it builds up pressure. Come a point it can only contain so much pressure and it has to come out. Freat explanation of th getting filled with the Holy Spirit.
I am Baptist, I was saved in a holiness church. I do not agree that repeat this prayer after me and your automatically saved. However I do feel that if your being dealt with, convicted and you repeat that you are accepting Christ as your savior. As we must come with a broken heart and contrite spirit Psalm 51:17.
I have been in the choir, the spirit move and have to testify in front of the church. I hate talking in crowds to begin with especially in front with all eyes and ears on me. I am now afraid when that feeling comes to keep my mouth shut. Of the times I have felt this, 3 of them I will never forget. The 1st one I got done was in tears, lady in front of me went to testifying, little kid beside me was looking up at me as I wiped tears away. She got done another guy started and little kid was gone sitting in his mothers lap. Next song started and he hit the alter squalling and got saved. Second time we were singing at a revival, here I go again and it just kept going throughout our Choir and into the church. Two souls got saved that night, one 12 year old spent over an hour at alter squalling. Third time was the Friday the same week, same scenerio and two more got saved. Acts 1:8

Ezekiel 3:17-18


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## gordon 2 (May 25, 2017)

I attended a non-denominational church meeting when a supposedly "anointed" visiting pastor was going to minister. Not my preferred denomination then or today I attended to be with a friend. I was perhaps 35 or so yrs old. 

At some point in the service this from-far-away pastor said  "Some of you have been smelling an intense fragrance for some time. It is lavender like." 

I assumed everyone was smelling this fragrance because it was intense as if the lady in front of me had dropped a whole bottle of perfume on herself by overzealous design or mistake.  And I had been surrounded by the fragrance for some time.

Next the pastor said, "Ok those of you who are experiencing this fragrance stand up." I assumed that all the congregation was going to stand, so I stood up and only perhaps 4 or 5 others in the congregation of 200 souls or so stood up. In this group I was the only  one of European descent, the others being from African descent.

The pastor explained to us that what we were experiencing was the fragrance of Sharon--which was the  fragrance of Jesus  provided to us by the Holy Spirit as a witness to Jesus present to us ( and I suppose now present to the congregation by signs following)  and that this was not a rare event or uncommon in the lives of the saints.

Now I was not overwhelmed at this point... the pastor said he wanted to lay his hands on the group, so we went up to the alter rail and he did so except for me. Again I was not overwhelmed by this... LOL. I latter found out he assumed I was an usher! LOL

Anyway this is when things started to get interesting: After the service the fragrance was still present. Next morning I noticed it was still present. All day at work it was present. In the car by myself... it was present... It was present ALL THE TIME for seven days.

I say seven days because I returned to my friend's non-denominational church seven days later. The visiting pastor was long gone having returned to his home church or some other things. Yet, the fragrance was still present and it was intense.

Now in my denomination there is no tradition of personal testimony so at some point when the pastor asked for testimony of his congregation... I did not know what to think of it and did not go up to testify.

 I listened to testimonies or how some claimed  they had been affected by the visiting pastor's ministering in the Holy Spirit the week previous. ( none mentioned my experience )  etc. Now where it got interesting is that immediately when testimony time stopped--- the fragrance stopped immediately. It vanished completely! Completely gone just like that.

I have  been visited again by this fragrance a few times since then for brief moments and with much lessened intensity. 

After this experience I started to check things out with scripture...and other Christians...and to my surprise they witnessed of the Holy Spirit present as a witness of Jesus in our lives.

I have never looked back on this but positively and that works following could account for the words in a famous song: "I was blind but now I see." This seeing for me was/is spiritual " experiencing"  and how this work following  worked in me. But since I have known of works to work on others differently. I like to think somehow according to our needs... but that's just me...thinking... 

I've also had another very important "meeting" in the Holy Spirit... but alas this is for another day.


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## ky55 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Is this your way of saying your "friends and acquaintances" who have felt this are unstable and unintelligent? If so you are a couple of threads late, but I suggest you link up with hobbs.  Your beliefs or more accurately, disbelief's, are very similar: as is the remedy.




Hey, you asked for comments...
Twice. 



Ronnie T said:


> This area is not a "Hands-off" area.
> In this area anyone, anyone can join any discussion with whatever their point of view is.
> It is not a Christian-only section.
> It is not a Religious-only section.
> ...



If you weren't prepared for a discussion perhaps it would have been better to post your subject in a "Hands-off" forum.


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## ky55 (May 25, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Two souls got saved that night, one 12 year old spent over an hour at alter squalling.




That reminds me of the OT story about Abraham.
Anybody have any idea how much time Isaac spent on the altar looking at the knife in his father's hand?


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## Artfuldodger (May 25, 2017)

One thought I have and I'm sure it's off topic, but how do we compare someone having the Holy Spirit for works vs someone receiving the Holy Spirit for salvation?

If it takes God's call to send the Holy Spirit to convict one to accept, wouldn't it take receiving the Holy Spirit to perform works?

Can we separate the election to salvation by receiving the Holy Spirit from receiving the Holy Spirit to perform works?

How can one say Acts suggest we must receive the Holy Spirit as proof of salvation yet discount the power of the Holy Spirit as sent from God for election?

Is it two different things or one? This power the Holy Spirit has. If he can elect then he can provide power to produce fruit. If he can provide power to produce fruit then he can provide power to elect.

I can't see one without the other. God calling one to salvation without anointing  one with the Spirit. I'm not sure why we don't all have that hallelujah moment  others may have. Maybe for some that comes later. 

Why beg a lost soul to accept Jesus knowing he can't accept without receiving this slain in the spirit experience? Perhaps he truly believes but being raised a Baptist he doesn't experience it the same as one raised Pentecostal. He still believes but the Spirit hasn't manifested itself as it does like it does in a Holiness believer. He doesn't get up, roll around and shout but walks calmly to the altar to announce his salvation. His walk isn't his salvation, just his vocal declaration.

Still though he believes none the same.

I personally have felt the power of the Holy Spirit but I didn't at the moment of salvation when I was only 12. It came years later even though at 12, I truly believed. I don't think my salvation was delayed until my future revealing of the Spirit.


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## Israel (May 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> One thought I have and I'm sure it's off topic, but how do we compare someone having the Holy Spirit for works vs someone receiving the Holy Spirit for salvation?
> 
> If it takes God's call to send the Holy Spirit to convict one to accept, wouldn't it take receiving the Holy Spirit to perform works?
> 
> ...


Art, this is the matter a believer faces when confronted with the spiritual experiences of another...and what that "other" must consider in his sharing of them. It's a little of what Formula and I discussed briefly.

We may often misread things. I know I have. It is easy to mistake God's love and the "showing of Himself" (in whatever miraculous means He chooses) and therefore imagine "wow, I must really have God's approval in some great measure." Perhaps it might be more rarely do we come to consider "but what if God is as compelled to deal with me so 'spectacularly'...because of all men, I am the most dense"? We do see the promise of God to work amongst us...but likewise Jesus cautions us most severely about trusting, in any measure...that these are (to us) signs of God's approval. "Did we not work many mighty wonders in YOUR name"? Or perhaps have seen, likewise.

I am persuaded singleness of eye and heart are the matter here. Yes, there may be wonders. Yes, there may not be wonders. (Outwardly) For the greatest wonder always remains that of the Lord's presence through salvation. And this is where we enter "school". This is why paul was so adamant about love. We can, and well may be easily distracted. And this is always a matter of concern to the disciple. Inwardly in what he "truly seeks"...and outwardly...in what he is about manifesting. How, and what he shares...of the Lord.

If he takes his stand on anything other than the mercy in Jesus Christ, he will find reproval, often. He must, for the Lord is not slack in discipline...for He endured all of the righteous discipline in Himself. He is counted a worthy minister of such. To this end He submitted to being made "a man", and from such He is able to therefore, show. Man can no longer "get away with"..."But God, you don't know what I have to deal with! You don't know what I go through, you don't know what it's like...to be a man!".

Though God has always known, and been as intimately involved/invested in man from the very moment of creation...He has deigned to show us (of grace) through Jesus Christ, that is _manifest the truth_ (to counter the lie we had 'fallen' by, and through) in the most plain and humble fashion of that man, Jesus.
 It is written that God, for a time "winked at" certain things of our ignorance...not holding such against us. But now, all men are "without excuse". Jesus, the final sacrifice has come. The Holy Spirit permeates the whole of creation (for want of a better word) in His name. And the question remains then, to all, for all, as surely today as we first find it penned "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? " 

Can we learn of Pilates mistake in asking "others"? When the only right direction to that question is not down or to, other men, but God alone? The disciple gets closer and closer, drawn by experience, discipline, rebukes, chastenings, reprovals to this central question..."what does Jesus mean?" What is His "significance?" What is the meaning..._of it all_?

Did He come to merely start _another religion_? Did he come to help me "esteem myself better?" if I believe a _certain thing_? Did he come to just show how good a man can be? Did he come just so God would have the unequivocally and most righteous place to judge men with impunity? (Which God has always had) You may be able to tell by a few of these questions mentioned where my own seeking has led.

The question then of "what does Jesus MEAN?" is something we never stray from. (And we come to discover this is "not of ourselves" after we have been unutterably convinced of "our own" tendency to wander)

We come to discover in some measure that this occupying with that is precisely for eternal life, and to eternal life. And we also learn who of all, and only who of all, has any answer to "What do you mean, Jesus"?

To say Jesus is the "means" by which a man has his eyes opened is not untrue. To say Jesus is the means by which a man may discover the love of God, is not untrue. And to say Jesus is the means by which a man is beckoned into the unfathomable, is not untrue. Into glory, not untrue. Into joy unspeakable, not untrue. Into righteousness, not untrue. Into mercy, not untrue. Into all in which words totally fail...
And somewhere, somehow, all assumptions of what we think those words mean, have believed we know what those words mean, have even believed in whatever foolish measure we have perhaps even "practiced" what those words mean...something happens. 

And perhaps we begin to ask "what do you mean...when you say life, Jesus?" 


"Jesus, what do _you_ mean?"


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## welderguy (May 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> One thought I have and I'm sure it's off topic, but how do we compare someone having the Holy Spirit for works vs someone receiving the Holy Spirit for salvation?
> 
> If it takes God's call to send the Holy Spirit to convict one to accept, wouldn't it take receiving the Holy Spirit to perform works?
> 
> ...



Regarding your last paragraph:

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


If you truly believed this when you were 12, then you were in a present state of having been born of God. 
You didn't believe to become this, you already were. That's why you were able to believe.


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## Artfuldodger (May 26, 2017)

How do we address man doing greater works than Jesus? Maybe this has something to with Jesus basing this on his short time on earth and not his time before and after.

Even still, man can only save souls or physical bodies by using the power of God or the Holy Spirit. I guess if a man can bring someone to spiritual salvation then he can lead a man to physical salvation by saving his life. Yet it still takes the power of God to do either.

I think man is just the vehicle that God uses. Perhaps this is what Jesus was saying in Acts about us doing greater things than him.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 26, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Hey, you asked for comments...
> Twice.
> 
> 
> ...





Yes, you are correct on both.  I did ask for comments, and this is not a hands off forum.  You can post any comment you may have.  That being said, it's generally considered bad manners, even in the Atheist/Agnostic forum, to enter a thread and post an off topic comment whose only purpose is to denigrate those of that belief.
I do my best to represent the values of my beliefs.  Maybe you are too.

One last point.  I didn't ask for a discussion.  I asked that people share their Holy Spirit experience.  If you have one, I would love to hear it.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 26, 2017)

If it's all the same to you guys I would rather not let this thread go off course.  In light of all the debating that has happened here lately, I was hoping this thread would act as a place of testimony to uplift and inspire others.  I hope more will share their experience.


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## formula1 (May 26, 2017)

*re:*



ky55 said:


> That reminds me of the OT story about Abraham.
> Anybody have any idea how much time Isaac spent on the altar looking at the knife in his father's hand?



Long enough for God to provide the ram!


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## formula1 (May 26, 2017)

*re:*

Speaking of poems:

In Christ alone my hope is found
He is my light, my strength, my song
This Cornerstone, this solid ground
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
My Comforter, my All in All
Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
'Til on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me
For I am His and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

No guilt in life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life's first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of He$$, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand.


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## j_seph (May 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> How do we address man doing greater works than Jesus? Maybe this has something to with Jesus basing this on his short time on earth and not his time before and after.
> 
> Even still, man can only save souls or physical bodies by using the power of God or the Holy Spirit. I guess if a man can bring someone to spiritual salvation then he can lead a man to physical salvation by saving his life. Yet it still takes the power of God to do either.
> 
> I think man is just the vehicle that God uses. Perhaps this is what Jesus was saying in Acts about us doing greater things than him.


There is nothing to address, man cannot do greater works than Jesus.
Never have I heard of a man walking up, and giving sight to a blind man.
Never has a man touched and healed anyone that I am aware of.

Man cannot save souls, that must come from Jesus. Man can be a vessel and God can use that man to lead someone to Christ but the man cannot save the soul.


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> One thought I have and I'm sure it's off topic, but how do we compare someone having the Holy Spirit for works vs someone receiving the Holy Spirit for salvation?
> 
> If it takes God's call to send the Holy Spirit to convict one to accept, wouldn't it take receiving the Holy Spirit to perform works?
> 
> ...



Art you are a deep thinker. I don't know if what I'm about to share here will move your ideas along or impede them... My intent is positive.

I have always believed in God. I have always believed. And in hindsight I have always had faith but my faith was never really strong if I compare it to Abraham's faith or the faith that Jesus has in the Father or the Apostles had in Jesus.

So what was for me latter in my life a Holy Spirit experience(s) which was  personally an emotional and physically sensing of God's love, His son Jesus touching me, through the Holy Spirit had the effect of starting in my makeup an increase of faith, a significant grown impetus in faith, a kindred in the greatest common faith of the saints, so as to eventually and so far give it a robust backbone that will stand in balance before all of creation and my maker.

My first love in Christ washed me with what soap I don't know, but I loved my previous enemies, my mouth uttered no profanity for many many days perhaps months without any of my efforts. I knew that Jesus was not only present in me as I had been told he was by the Church who had provided my baptism, but I knew that Jesus was alive perhaps more so outside of me, as in active in the tactile world as well as the inner worlds of man.

So why did Jesus feel the need to give me a sign? What was His purpose for me? I still ask those questions today. But I know this... it gave me the assurance and the confidence to be a Sunday School teacher for 15-20 yrs. ---Which ministry I would not have or possible could never have entertained doing or would have done otherwise!

Was this His purpose? Was this His answer to my prayer when I was a younger man, " God what do you want of me?" And then His reply, " Not now. Wait." 

Does God need to line up his ducks? I don't know. But I know this, the days that he lined up this duck, my spiritual life has been a walk in faith with increasing confidence, with assurance, without doubts, before all of creation and my maker. I walk in faith. And when I say this it means that I would ride my poney with Abraham, or console Jonah under his pouting tree, or today I will tell a pastor that he does not listen to his church's prophets and yet he expects his congregation to listen to him or that to a priest that he expects his congregation to respect his spiritual ministry to them, yet he himself is unable to hear the spiritual ministry of his Bishop! 

Ah yes...Why? Today... why is it that today I can, given the Ok from the Holy Spirit speak from inside our Lord's kingdom to those outside and to share with those inside, where once I was on the outside even in belief wondering where all the voices with authority were coming from?

Signs following have changed my life... on earth and in heaven. But if I had not been a witness of signs and today my faith the faith I had as a child from my mothers knees--she would have been a great sign in my life of God's love active in the world.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 26, 2017)

j_seph said:


> As the captain posted on FB Sunday, it is like a radiator, once it gets hot inside it builds up pressure. Come a point it can only contain so much pressure and it has to come out. Freat explanation of th getting filled with the Holy Spirit.
> I am Baptist, I was saved in a holiness church. I do not agree that repeat this prayer after me and your automatically saved. However I do feel that if your being dealt with, convicted and you repeat that you are accepting Christ as your savior. As we must come with a broken heart and contrite spirit Psalm 51:17.
> I have been in the choir, the spirit move and have to testify in front of the church. I hate talking in crowds to begin with especially in front with all eyes and ears on me. I am now afraid when that feeling comes to keep my mouth shut. Of the times I have felt this, 3 of them I will never forget. The 1st one I got done was in tears, lady in front of me went to testifying, little kid beside me was looking up at me as I wiped tears away. She got done another guy started and little kid was gone sitting in his mothers lap. Next song started and he hit the alter squalling and got saved. Second time we were singing at a revival, here I go again and it just kept going throughout our Choir and into the church. Two souls got saved that night, one 12 year old spent over an hour at alter squalling. Third time was the Friday the same week, same scenerio and two more got saved. Acts 1:8
> 
> Ezekiel 3:17-18



Great testimony.   Thanks for sharing.


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

j_seph said:


> There is nothing to address, man cannot do greater works than Jesus.
> 
> God's love is not a work... Jesus said we would do greater works than his. Yet it is doubtful now that we, even the saints, would be able to love fully as God does.
> 
> ...




Second look.


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## j_seph (May 26, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Second look.



Please show me the ones a man has touched and healed, the one man touched and gave sight to. Not arguing just asking


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## SemperFiDawg (May 26, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Please show me the ones a man has touched and healed, the one man touched and gave sight to. Not arguing just asking



Guys PLEASE!!!  There's at least 3 recent threads devoted to this debate.  Please carry your points to those.  AGAIN, I would like this threat to result in exhortation and exalting, not contention.  Thank you.


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Please show me the ones a man has touched and healed, the one man touched and gave sight to. Not arguing just asking



 I shall message you bros. with the info link you need. GBU


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

formula1 said:


> Long enough for God to provide the ram!



This dry humor is noticed.


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## formula1 (May 26, 2017)

*re:*



gordon 2 said:


> This dry humor is noticed.



Humorous but true!

I too once sat on an alter of death, secured with chains and placed upon the fire with no escape apparent.  And when I was certain of death, God provided the Ram!!!

Glory to the Lord of heaven and earth!


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## ky55 (May 26, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> This dry humor is noticed.



Sorry, it went right over my head. 

I guess I never learned to find any humor in the subject of human sacrifice or terrifying innocent children with the image of he11.


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## formula1 (May 26, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Sorry, it went right over my head.
> 
> I guess I never learned to find any humor in the subject of human sacrifice or terrifying innocent children with the image of he11.



So much for logic and intelligence being able to comprehend spiritual truth!  Keep trying as u just might get there.


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Sorry, it went right over my head.
> 
> I guess I never learned to find any humor in the subject of human sacrifice or terrifying innocent children with the image of he11.




I have known of your observation from others regards he11 as a stick before and this is unfortunate in my view. I don't know that I was ever an innocent child but the subject of sacrifice for me was in the form of Jesus sitting with a lamb in his lap from a high place over looking Jerusalem. And I never ever even considered that that lamb could be anyone but me and every one else I knew. It was just the opposite of terrifying and I learned this early... plus my papa was a railroad man. Sometimes he'd come home with a busted back, hand, foot and once a good chainsaw mark on the top of his left hand. ( My dad was a very good guitar player.) Blood sacrifice was a fact of life in my family...simply because Dad loved mom and they both loved us--eight kids. Never was terrified about blood sacrifice... my dad's or my Lord's.

My dad once told me that a lady in the village had "seen" while praying at our church once. I said, " What did she see?" He said, " She just seen." and left it at that. So I learned from him that seeing was not only a function of the eyes in league with the brain but also it was something else also, a rare insight perhaps, a rare communion perhaps, and it served as a sign for others who mentioned it when they saw fit, as my dad did once.


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## Artfuldodger (May 26, 2017)

My experiences of having Spirit felt moments have been closer when I'm around Pentecostals than Baptist. I'm not sure why it happens this way. 

Perhaps like Gordon's account of the anointed visiting preacher and his smell of lavender.

Maybe being around others who believe this is possible makes the Spirit filling process more likely.

So do most folks who have had this experience feel it is different than the dwelling of the Spirit that is part of our salvation? I believe I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that came at conversion and I get these other experiences  depending on when the Spirit needs to make me aware of his indwelling.


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## gordon 2 (May 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> My experiences of having Spirit felt moments have been closer when I'm around Pentecostals than Baptist. I'm not sure why it happens this way.
> 
> Perhaps like Gordon's account of the anointed visiting preacher and his smell of lavender.
> 
> ...



I understand it is different yes. ( My opinion at this point.)

And I understand that different churches have different gifts and I think this can be shown with examples in scripture ref: the early churches. Yet,  for me possibly the most important Holy Spirit infilling I have known was from a church sponsored bible study... and that church was/is mainstream-conservative...


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## Artfuldodger (May 26, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> I understand it is different yes. ( My opinion at this point.)
> 
> And I understand that different churches have different gifts and I think this can be shown with examples in scripture ref: the early churches. Yet,  for me possibly the most important Holy Spirit infilling I have known was from a church sponsored bible study... and that church was/is mainstream-conservative...



 Maybe God knows that we all have different beliefs and provides the various denominations to administer our individual beliefs. 

"Infilling," maybe that's the word I'm looking for. Jesus came to the earth as  a man. His Father's Spirit lit on him in the form of a dove. Jesus repeatably said everything he did was from the will and power of his Father.

I would assume that is the way it works for us too. 

How do I explain why some denominations get more 'Infillings" than others? I don't know. Some denominations have apparitions and others have visions. Some speak in tongues and others heal. 

It would be hard to explain some of the experiences I've had as anything other than "infillings." Because of this, I would not try to dismiss what others experience as "infillings" no matter what they are. In the past, maybe I have. Today, I would not.

Regardless of what man experiences in relation to God, whether it be gifts, fruits, or infillings, it's all from the power of God. I can do nothing of myself.
I think this is what Jesus was relaying in Acts when he said we would do greater things. Jesus having through his years on the earth admitted  that it wasn't through his power that he operated but from his Father's power.

So if we, as a man, lead someone to salvation or heal him from a physical defect, it's not us doing it. It's from the power of the Father acting through us.

God uses many avenues;  angels, messengers, man, Satan, natural disasters, illnesses, indwelling, hardening, and softening, to make his plan come about.


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## Israel (May 27, 2017)

God knows I _love_ experiences. At this point I am pretty well convinced God knows something else about me I am just beginning to appreciate, I can be easily led astray...in experience. It seems I have (if no one else, that's fine) a tendency toward miscalculation.
I get my maths all wrong.

I add in things by inference that are often...just not there. I seem to be a _sucker_ for it.

For whatever reason I once took a BB gun and lay in wait for a bird. And for whatever reason this is heavy on me this morning. I still see it so clearly and I am weeping. Yeah, it got etched on the (probably) about 10 year old mind. 

My success at waiting and in aim led me to walk up on that hapless creature as crimson spilled and stained the green cut grass, its last motions to move, to live, to be itself...again, played out there. And I went and sat on the curb and cried like a baby. And yes, it was a sparrow, I see now,...it had to be.

One might think "well, that's probably the last time he did that". But it wasn't. Having a BB gun I was allowed to use also got me around kids that must have been interested in knowing a someone who had a BB gun they were allowed to use. So it was eventually, in the company of these friends, that we eventually got around to shooting at, and sometimes shooting...other birds.

My mother had once remarked at how the blue jays were mean to the smaller birds as she watched them eat the bread she would throw out. They'd scramble at the littler birds and scare them off. So, blue jays got on the allowed list. Mean blue jays. Hey, maybe this killing thing ain't so bad...if you limit it to the right "ones". You can do it with friends, they'll gather to you if you have a gun...and you can even kinda be a somebody, _feel_ like a somebody, around them. Yeah, this friend thing is _allllright_. Yes, I can still see the faces of those childhood friends, some now dead, some lost in the wherever to me, and some still searchable on Facebook. (How old they look...what in the world happened to "them"?) But their faces are not nearly as clear in mind as the tawny brown softness of that sparrow, pumping its life out on the grass. I can still see where one feather ends against the other.


But we are here to speak of the supernatural things we have experienced_ to our belief_.
Stop me if you've heard this. It's my Hitler dream. Came in about 1992 as I was struggling in relationship to a brother and with a brother to whom I'd grown very close. Or maybe it was bound to. In some fashion it was quite becoming a heavy burden.

I dreamed I stood in a room, with Hitler as he stood behind a desk...he was regaling us (for I knew there were others "of his kin" and kind off to my right and a little on my periphery. Hitler was going on and on and on about how he had done so much, done all he had done...for the sake of "his people", making the most of professing his altruism.

I stood there and blurted loudly "You LIAR! Everything you have done you have done for only yourself!" Immediately he turned to his minions (those off to my right), and said "Get HIM!"
I fled through the door on my left, then made a right through another door, and into a room. It was piled high with bodies, so I sought to hide myself amongst them, pulling limbs and torsos over myself...and "playing dead". (Hey look! I'm an opossum of Christ!)

Then I heard his soldiers come in, and as they surveyed the bodies I heard them say "draw your knife and cut the eyeball of each". (They had a pretty clever way of telling who _was not dead_...just playing at it) And in the dream, as they said it, the vision of it, a sharp blade being drawn across an eyeball came to me...and I knew the jig was up, I couldn't bear that. So, I leapt up upon the bodies waving my arms and laughing uproariously fairly screaming in actions "here I am". And as they raised their stens and fired...each bullet passed through without a bit of pain, and I continued laughing and waving and dancing. As they continued firing.

Fast forward about twenty years. My wife and I are watching a movie "Downfall"...about Hitler's last days in his bunker in Berlin, as recorded by his personal secretary from whose book the movie was developed. (I'd already shared this dream with my wife as we were free about discussing things we saw as spiritual and spiritually informed and forming of _experiences_)

Anyway...it gets to this scene where Hitler is sitting (not standing) behind a desk. He's speaking to someone of his circle...and he is going on and on about why they must fight to the last man and child, there will be no consideration of surrender to the armies advancing on Berlin. Because all he has done, he has done for them, all he has suffered, he has suffered for them, and if they have shown themselves not worthy of his efforts and glorious vision on their behalf...they deserve to die.

I don't think I need tell you how I _felt _ as it unrolled there before us on the screen. (I am no Hitler scholar, I haven't researched and delved into much about him beyond anyone's fascination with the man who has become synonymous with, and the _go to_ symbol of, the rankest of evil)

Oh, yeah, (even in what little I may know) I have been much aware of the depths to which self serving can be, and is cloaked, the tendrils and tentacles of it so tightly wound round the soul as to make it, and them, almost  indistinguishable. (thanks be to God for the perfect surgeon with perfect vision! and PATIENCE)

To come, as it were, to know "I am" the slayer and accept I have never been more than that, or could ever be better than that, helps me see things that would absolutely seem forbidden to such a one, must be forbidden to such a one, if there is any righteous judgment at all. All that "that man" is, is even _allowed _at all to be, screams against the reality of God and puts the lie to any form of any righteousness to be found anywhere in all of "what is".
And yet, as recently said elsewhere "that man" at the bar of that righteousness against which his very being screams of its nullity has found there he is free, and getting off without so much as a reprimand.

And only for this.

Jesus _is_ Lord.


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## Israel (May 27, 2017)

This occurred about 4 months ago:

In the dream a thing appeared, very large, proclaiming itself the Lord. I didn't want to seem impertinent so I held my reservations as to it "glorious appearing" and lack of spiritual depth while others around me seemed accepting of its substance. But it did to me appear as everything of caricature.

Then a voice from the heavens came and asked "what are you looking at" (hearkening to)...and this voice was the voice of authority. I said "this very large image of a man". And the voice said "Lean it toward me", and so, as I looked up at the image (it was in appearance as a large man speaking and moving, giving instruction) and willed it to lean forward, it did, and suddenly, it vanished in a whirlwind, debris swirling in the sky around me.

I fell to my knees, raised my hands, and closed my eyes (I somehow knew it was important to close my eyes) proclaiming to the invisible heavens what first came to heart while others milled about:
"Holy Holy Holy Lord, God of power and might", 

Then a pause thinking the next words should be uttered with the deepest and most profound of gravity and power. And I believe it was then I woke myself up to my own half awake, half asleep, quavering voice "Heaven and Earth are filled with your glory". And my eyes opened.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 28, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> I have known of your observation from others regards he11 as a stick before and this is unfortunate in my view. I don't know that I was ever an innocent child but the subject of sacrifice for me was in the form of Jesus sitting with a lamb in his lap from a high place over looking Jerusalem. And I never ever even considered that that lamb could be anyone but me and every one else I knew. It was just the opposite of terrifying and I learned this early... plus my papa was a railroad man. Sometimes he'd come home with a busted back, hand, foot and once a good chainsaw mark on the top of his left hand. ( My dad was a very good guitar player.) Blood sacrifice was a fact of life in my family...simply because Dad loved mom and they both loved us--eight kids. Never was terrified about blood sacrifice... my dad's or my Lord's.
> 
> My dad once told me that a lady in the village had "seen" while praying at our church once. I said, " What did she see?" He said, " She just seen." and left it at that. So I learned from him that seeing was not only a function of the eyes in league with the brain but also it was something else also, a rare insight perhaps, a rare communion perhaps, and it served as a sign for others who mentioned it when they saw fit, as my dad did once.



That day in the bathroom when I was 14,  I saw something too.  I don't know how to explain it.  It was an understanding and a vision at the same time.  It was soooooo powerful.  I was in that bathroom but in Heaven at the same time.  The feeling was wonderous, powerful, and beautiful all at the same time.  I saw how all of mans designs and thoughts fled away to the truth of Christ.  I never wanted it to end, but yet knew it must.   I do appreciate your post as it allowed me to recall a part of that event that had been lost to time.


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## JimD (May 29, 2017)

I grew up in an Assembly of God church in PA. Specifically, it was the CCNA, which was created by Italians who converted from Catholicism. Many in my family were and are ministers. Speaking in tongues was pretty common in this kind of church and it was pretty loud as far as the preaching and worship. Every summer we would go to the church camp that was maybe 45  minutes from home. It was in the country with not much else around. Every evening there was of course a church service and each service always had an alter call. I started going to camp when I was about 10 or 11 and went till about 13, when we went to another church. 

I had heard people speaking in tongues my whole life but never believed it. Maybe the second year at camp during the alter call it happened to me. All I can tell you is that the spirit of God took over and a bunch of words I didn't know how to say came out of my mouth. There was no way to stop it or control it and it ran it's course and ended. The next year I believe, a man was touching people and essentially knocking​ them over by a little touch and a couple guys would catch you until just like during the speaking in tongues, it played itself out. Once again , I did t believe it and went up there to prove it was fake. Well let me tell you, it is real. I got knocked over and could do absolutely nothing to stop it, nothing. Once it ran it's course then you could get up. Now let say this, both of those experiences were the most wonderful, amazing things I have ever experienced in my life. There was nothing scary about it and words really can't express it. You cry uncontrollably, but it joy not sadness, maybe like you cry seeing a baby born or a loved one doing something great. You can't control it and you don't want it to end. It doesn't end quickly but you ki d of ease out of it. Afterwards you feel better than you have ever felt in your life and at the same time are tired like after an adrenaline dump. It is the best feeling to this day I have ever had. The sad thing is, after going through my twenties and drinking, partying and sleeping with lots of women, shooting big bucks, etc., nothing in this world compares to that feeling. I wish I would have been wise enough to realize that at a young age, but we all have a path we take and as the Bible says, if you are raised right, you return to the right path.

A couple other things I can speak about as well. I was driving back to college one night when I was 19. My dad and good friend were asleep in the car. I fell asleep, and felt a hand smack my chest and knock me back in my seat. I woke up started expecting it to be one of them but they were asleep. We do have guardian angles guys, trust me. I've had many other smaller things happen , too many to count.

I am only writing this to give Glory to God and for no other reason. I cant say why those things above happened or many other times God or his angels saved me or protected me, as I am no one special. I screw up every day of my life and have broken quite a few of the 10 commandments, so Lord knows I don't deserve it. Anyway, I hope this helps in some way as to what you were looking to hear.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 30, 2017)

ky55 said:


> Sorry, it went right over my head.
> 
> I guess I never learned to find any humor in the subject of human sacrifice or terrifying innocent children with the image of he11.



But are perfectly fine teaching kids they are animals.  You obviously believe children's lives have worth, yet your atheistic beliefs cannot presuppose any.  You must co-opt it.  Dignity and sanctity are inherently imparted to us because we are created in the image of God, therefore you deny the very presupposition your premise is built on which is not only illogical but absurd.  Thus the lunacy of Athiesm.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 30, 2017)

JimD said:


> I grew up in an Assembly of God church in PA. Specifically, it was the CCNA, which was created by Italians who converted from Catholicism. Many in my family were and are ministers. Speaking in tongues was pretty common in this kind of church and it was pretty loud as far as the preaching and worship. Every summer we would go to the church camp that was maybe 45  minutes from home. It was in the country with not much else around. Every evening there was of course a church service and each service always had an alter call. I started going to camp when I was about 10 or 11 and went till about 13, when we went to another church.
> 
> I had heard people speaking in tongues my whole life but never believed it. Maybe the second year at camp during the alter call it happened to me. All I can tell you is that the spirit of God took over and a bunch of words I didn't know how to say came out of my mouth. There was no way to stop it or control it and it ran it's course and ended. The next year I believe, a man was touching people and essentially knocking​ them over by a little touch and a couple guys would catch you until just like during the speaking in tongues, it played itself out. Once again , I did t believe it and went up there to prove it was fake. Well let me tell you, it is real. I got knocked over and could do absolutely nothing to stop it, nothing. Once it ran it's course then you could get up. Now let say this, both of those experiences were the most wonderful, amazing things I have ever experienced in my life. There was nothing scary about it and words really can't express it. You cry uncontrollably, but it joy not sadness, maybe like you cry seeing a baby born or a loved one doing something great. You can't control it and you don't want it to end. It doesn't end quickly but you ki d of ease out of it. Afterwards you feel better than you have ever felt in your life and at the same time are tired like after an adrenaline dump. It is the best feeling to this day I have ever had. The sad thing is, after going through my twenties and drinking, partying and sleeping with lots of women, shooting big bucks, etc., nothing in this world compares to that feeling. I wish I would have been wise enough to realize that at a young age, but we all have a path we take and as the Bible says, if you are raised right, you return to the right path.
> 
> ...



Thank you for giving glory to God by sharing this.


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## j_seph (May 31, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> My experiences of having Spirit felt moments have been closer when I'm around *Pentecostals *than *Baptist*. I'm not sure why it happens this way.
> 
> Perhaps like Gordon's account of the anointed visiting preacher and his smell of lavender.
> 
> ...


Funny you said this, out Baptist church has been accused of pushing the realm of Pentecostal. Guess because we follow the spirit, invite the spirit in, and most move when the spirit says move. Have had services where the pastor never preached, there was no need for it as the preaching came from the church, the body of Christ. It is something for sure to be felt and experience. Have seen some get scared when the spirit starts moving, especially during an alter prayer. It is great to be able to sit in his house and actually look forward to what will happen next instead of watching a watch to see if service is almost over or not. My God does not use a watch to determine this.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 2, 2017)

JimD said:


> I grew up in an Assembly of God church in PA. Specifically, it was the CCNA, which was created by Italians who converted from Catholicism. Many in my family were and are ministers. Speaking in tongues was pretty common in this kind of church and it was pretty loud as far as the preaching and worship. Every summer we would go to the church camp that was maybe 45  minutes from home. It was in the country with not much else around. Every evening there was of course a church service and each service always had an alter call. I started going to camp when I was about 10 or 11 and went till about 13, when we went to another church.
> 
> I had heard people speaking in tongues my whole life but never believed it. Maybe the second year at camp during the alter call it happened to me. All I can tell you is that the spirit of God took over and a bunch of words I didn't know how to say came out of my mouth. There was no way to stop it or control it and it ran it's course and ended. The next year I believe, a man was touching people and essentially knocking​ them over by a little touch and a couple guys would catch you until just like during the speaking in tongues, it played itself out. Once again , I did t believe it and went up there to prove it was fake. Well let me tell you, it is real. I got knocked over and could do absolutely nothing to stop it, nothing. Once it ran it's course then you could get up. Now let say this, both of those experiences were the most wonderful, amazing things I have ever experienced in my life. There was nothing scary about it and words really can't express it. You cry uncontrollably, but it joy not sadness, maybe like you cry seeing a baby born or a loved one doing something great. You can't control it and you don't want it to end. It doesn't end quickly but you ki d of ease out of it. Afterwards you feel better than you have ever felt in your life and at the same time are tired like after an adrenaline dump. It is the best feeling to this day I have ever had. The sad thing is, after going through my twenties and drinking, partying and sleeping with lots of women, shooting big bucks, etc., nothing in this world compares to that feeling. I wish I would have been wise enough to realize that at a young age, but we all have a path we take and as the Bible says, if you are raised right, you return to the right path.
> 
> ...



When the Holy Spirit witnessed Jesus present in my life I now have to admit it was not because I was "full of grace"... as a matter of fact I was in many ways not deserving.

It sort of makes me think of scripture where Jesus is recorded to have said, " I have not come for the righteous, but sinners..."

Luke 5:32

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You and I don't have to dig deep on what this is about I suspect... 

Thank you for sharing bros. And yes,  all the glory to God for our Lord Jesus Savior ---Him.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 2, 2017)

When I was in my early thirties I decided to get personally responsible for my spiritual life. I was a christian and knew many things about Christians, Jesus, the apostles,  Moses, Jonah, Genesis, Exodus... but something was missing in my spiritual makeup and life was more difficult than I had expected when I had started out as a "mature" adult a decade or so earlier.

 In a period of 10 yrs my first wife had left me. My second wife had had cancer when our two children were 3 and 4 yrs old. It was thyroid cancer and a good part of her energy was zapped after they removed her thyroid to save her life.

Financially we were paycheck to paycheck. I had to remortgage the house. I was not feeling well physically-- and later found out I had an form of fibromyalgia-- long and short of it I was in a wash of pain all the time.

Nevertheless... I knew that I needed to get my spiritual life in order... not unlike putting one's finances in order...etc... in that it was my responsibility-- no one was going to do it for me.


For a year or two I studied with close reading all the major world religions. I studied what the spiritual experience was, what it did in people's lives. At the end of this I noticed that most of the sages,  the wise and saints of the world religions were on a road to attaining enlightenment, awakenings, nirvana, spiritual levels, in short "a place". And the rare few seemed to talk from some form of personal knowledge of this place, if not the place itself, then  tremendously valued notions of it. I concluded that "this place" was of great importance to a robust spiritual life and I did not have it.

I had however by now exhausted world religions. I could talk Shinto, Zen, Hindu to my self---and knew of their places but did not know my own. It was then a little voice in my being said " Gordon, maybe since you have "traveled" around the world for spiritual gain it may be time to visit your home church again to see what they might have in the same line you've been searching. So I listened to the voice and did as commanded.

It so happened that my church community ( Catholic) had organized a bible study. It was in the form of 101 classes on scripture. The course was given every Wednesday night, students chose two courses. The courses were thought by the priests of several local churches. One gave  a course on Matthew, another on John, another on Luke, Genesis, etc... Some traveled 25 miles to teach. 

I chose Matthew and the Exodus. Both teachers were excellent on their subjects and especially my Exodus teacher. The courses were given over a 2-3 month period.

The short of it for me was that Matthew was about the Kingdom and Moses about the rest. And somehow Matthew and Moses tag teamed on me and I walked into our Kingdom--and I walked into that place! I had no idea or knowledge that I was going to find our place! my place! my home! 

And perhaps unlike what I had learned from other religious traditions of efforts to attain a place or a religious state-- I had never made a conscious effort to grasp at this place, and did not expect it, but it was what I would call today "as given to me". It was given to me not for my efforts to attain it deliberately, but it was a consequence of earnestly listening to the word of God  via Christian tradition. 

In other words I traveled all over the world to find love and understanding -- which I could not find--, and I found it five miles from my home.

I remember it well when our Kingdom became a real spiritual place that I spiritually walked into. I was sitting in a chair with other students. I don't recall if it was Matthew or Moses, but think Moses put the boot to my butt the most and booted me in the most. The hair raised on my neck when what was happening got obvious... which was obvious in a matter of a few minutes.

I was home! I found my rest! I was to the Kingdom!

I now knew why and from where the saints said what they had said. I no longer worried to understand...that I might never understand. I had a home that no one, no thing, nothing was going to take away from me.  And in this our place, many were to it. And in our Kingdom there was a Lord, a King and He was Jesus! And the Kingdom had rules of the road like any other Kingdom or sovereign territory-- except in this case the motivator was plain to all: God's love as God sees it, witnessed to via the Holy Spirit.

This experience has changed my life and is my anchor in a world that is sometimes up, sometimes down... like a boat adrift on the oceans, an ark with many Noahs... The Kingdom is my platform, my solid ground, it is for now my-our real home.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 5, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> When I was in my early thirties I decided to get personally responsible for my spiritual life. I was a christian and knew many things about Christians, Jesus, the apostles,  Moses, Jonah, Genesis, Exodus... but something was missing in my spiritual makeup and life was more difficult than I had expected when I had started out as a "mature" adult a decade or so earlier.
> 
> In a period of 10 yrs my first wife had left me. My second wife had had cancer when our two children were 3 and 4 yrs old. It was thyroid cancer and a good part of her energy was zapped after they removed her thyroid to save her life.
> 
> ...



Thank You for sharing this.


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