# Damascus barreled shotguns.



## redneck_billcollector (Dec 29, 2012)

I am curious, I saw a beautiful Baker 16 bore today with damascus barrels, I was wondering do any of you all shoot damascus barreled guns?  If so, how hard is the ammo to get?  I can get this gun for literally a song and a dance and it is really too pretty just to hang on the wall were I to get it.  It is tight, and it has most of the case coloring left....the barrels are in great condition and the wood has the checkering still there and looks like it was just refinished.  It has a strange choke arraingment though, trap (I am assuming skeet) and full, which is about as strange a set of chokes as I have seen, but looking online that was not that uncommon.  I know it is not too hard to find 12 bore ammo for damascus barreled guns, but I have never seen 16 bore for sale before.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 30, 2012)

I hunt with Super Cracker all the time and he hunts with Damascus barrel shotguns.  He re-loads his own shells.  Send him a p.m. and he could tell you more about it.  SC has some really nice guns, to me they are works of art.

Here is a link to 2 1/2 inch 16 ga shotgun shells for Vintage Guns. (Low pressure, low recoil) and affordable.

http://www.polywad.com/guide.html#16-


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## GLS (Dec 30, 2012)

In addition to Polywad, RST makes a selection of low pressure, low recoil shells in 2.5" length.  While not Damascus, I use them in a 1922 Fox 16 and an English 16.  I also handload for them as well, 3/4 and 7/8 oz.  loads.  Gil


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## Jriley (Dec 30, 2012)

I handload black powder shells in my Parker GH damascus and it works great. It is a pain to clean it, but they pattern well.


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the info, I am really pleased to see others who love the old stuff like I do.  I am addicted to hitting the pawn shops in my area and I come across rather interesting shotguns all the time, and I am suprised at the outstanding condition of some of them.  Living where I do alot of folks had doubles back in the day because quail hunting was so big in this area (Albany GA.,people came from all over the world to hunt here and south of here).  With the times as they are now lots of people are dumping their grandfather's or great grandfather's shotguns for the extra cash.

Thanks for the link to polywad, they seem to be priced rather cheaper than I would have thought.  It is not much different than what I pay to shoot my two favorite bores; .410 and 28 gauge.


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 30, 2012)

Jriley said:


> I handload black powder shells in my Parker GH damascus and it works great. It is a pain to clean it, but they pattern well.



How do you like that Parker GH?  They say those are some of the best firing/shouldering american shotguns ever made.  I would like to get my hands on one in great condition.


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## lagrangedave (Dec 30, 2012)

I was in a pawn shop yesterday and a guy was trying to talk the owner out of a Parker that he had in the safe. I've known each of these guys for over 30 years and the would be buyer said he would part it out since it was in such poor condition. He said some of the barrels go for over $1000. I was amazed.


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## lagrangedave (Dec 30, 2012)

Not to derail, but there is a Meridian in Lagrange on swap and sell right now for $200.


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## GLS (Dec 30, 2012)

Here's the RST 16 gauge  link.  Good folks to do business and so is Jay at Polywad.  RST has a diversity of loads for consideration.  Also of interest in 28 gauge is a 2.5" 5/8 load of #10 for woodcock.  Gil
http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/3-16-Gauge.aspx


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 30, 2012)

lagrangedave said:


> Not to derail, but there is a Meridian in Lagrange on swap and sell right now for $200.



As the OP of this thread you ain't derailing it, I kind of hope it turns into a old shotgun thread......I can't get enough info on them to please me.


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## Supercracker (Dec 31, 2012)

looks like I'm a little late to the party here (been moving for the last few days and had no interwebz) but here's my $.02.

I use these Magtech brass shells






The best prices I've found are from Cabelas. I clean them in the dishwasher and load them by hand with no press or fancy gear. I use a pin drift to knock the primers out and a wooden dowel to reseat a new one. In my 16 I use 80gr of Goex FF, 2 overshot cards or half of a lubed wad, and equal measure of shot, and another 2 over shot cards.  It actually works out to be fairly economical. If you like to fiddle, you can get really creative with your loads. Plus, brass shell are just cool.  If you use black powder, and you should I think, be sure to clean it really really well everytime you shoot it. That residue is very corrosive ad can ruin a gun quick. 

Here's my 2 old girls. 




I have a third German one that is halfway through being restored in between other projects.

The thing that you ABSOLUTELY MUST determine before you fire it from the shoulder is whether or not it's safe to shoot. How you determine that is up to you. Here's how I did it. but this is in no way a recommendation of what you should do, it just met my standards for proof testing. You have to decide for yourself what is acceptable to you!

I loaded up 2 sets of shells, one with a regular load of powder and as much shot as it could hold, and one set with as much powder as it could hold with a regular load of shot. I measured the OD of the barrel and breech area with a micrometer at a marked location every couple of inches and recorded the OD. I braced the gun in hay bales and fired it with a long string. After firing each shell type I mic'd the OD again and made sure there was no deformation. 

Again, YMMV.


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## BirdNut (Dec 31, 2012)

That is just cool.


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## redneck_billcollector (Dec 31, 2012)

Great info Supercracker, I was thinking along the same lines for test firing, maybe using a secure benchrest.  That second shotgun in the picture, is it German, I noticed the cheek rest and they all seem to have those.  How do they "throw" with a cheek rest?


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## Supercracker (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, It's a German gun. Signed "C Wassman in Uslar"It shoulders well for me. I never even notice it. A lot, probably the majority, of German guns from then were meant to be used as do all guns. Filling the roles of rifle and shotgun. That gun has  set trigger for the right barrel. You push the trigger forward to set it and it has about a 1 ounce pull. Good for shooting ball from. 

As I understand it, up until fairly recently, germans were taxed through the nose per gun and per dog. So you ended up with one gun for everything (Drillings) an done dog for everything (GSPs, GWPs, etc.)


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## coveyrise90 (Dec 31, 2012)

Nice pics and info, Supercracker. Thanks for sharing.

Jay,

As GLS pointed out, RST and Polywad supply quailty 2 1/2 shells. And Polywad is located in Georgia somewhere.

Damascus is perfectly safe... though a lot of guys don't think so. Which sometimes gives educated buyers a chance at a good deal. The most important thing to remember with Damascus barrels (or any vintage barrels for that matter) is barrel thickness.

Adam


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## GunnSmokeer (May 13, 2015)

*I'm gonna shoot one*

I'm going to replace the missing hammer on this old W. H. Davenport shotgun (last patent date 1902) and shoot it.
Probably with an especially low-recoil trap and skeet load.
Maybe with a box of those 2.5" chamber length  PolyWad rounds for old shotguns.  Although my chamber "feels" like it's 2.75 inches.  It's hard to tell, as there's no sharp ridge where the chamber transitions down to the bore. But the ramp seems to begin around 2.75"

This shotgun's barrel doesn't look like Damascus or twist steel.  Catalogs by Davenport of that era say that the standard steel was "fine decarbonized rolled steel" whatever that means. Is that the same as fluid steel, creating a seamless tube?  I don't know, but it's extra thick and heavy.  This shotgun weighs over 8 lbs. empty, which feels like about 1.5 - 2.0 lbs more than normal for single-barrel break-open 12 gauges.


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## GunnSmokeer (May 13, 2015)

*pics*

More pics, if I can get them to upload.

The bore is dark. I gave it another cleaning, this time with some metal polish soaked on a tight-fitting patch wrapped around the plastic-bristled bore brush.  It looks better now, but it's still pitted.

I'm sure from the time this gun was made back in the 1900s before WWI up to the 1930s, it was probably shot with black powder shotshells, and after that possibly with smokeless shotshells that had corrosive primers.


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## GLS (May 14, 2015)

Since this thread originally appeared I learned more about Damascus barrels and the importance of having them checked out by someone with more experience and expertise than I have.  Pitting can be a real problem depending on depth and location.  The highest pressures are obviously closer to the chamber with a steep drop after the first 9".  Having the barrels measured for minimum wall thickness is a good thing to have done as well.  This takes specialized equipment that all gunsmiths don't have.  Older guns often have barrels honed to remove pitting.  Sometimes too much metal is removed.  Since this thread first appeared I've considered two Damascus barreled guns, bought one, turned the other down after having a doublegun smith exam both and give his opinion.  Gil


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## Whiteeagle (May 15, 2015)

Been shooting an old Damascus barreled double since 1958, and never had any problems. Shot light loads of Remington and Winchester for many years. Started reloading black powder in shotshells around 1970, and fell in love with the smoke, sound, and smell! Dove hunt with the 2 1/2 reloads and enjoy lots of "Eating"! Would NOT shoot any MODERN smokeless loads in 2 3/4" in it NOW! Up until around 1970, shells were made to be shot in any gun, even OLD guns, safely. The advent of modern steel alloys allowed for higher chamber pressures in modern guns. The "Old guns" of yesteryear need to be petted and pampered and key for future generations to wonder at!!!


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## coveyrise90 (May 15, 2015)

Nothing wrong with damascus if they're sound and in good shape. I like them to have minimum wall thickness of at least .020 inch (checked by a barrel wall thickness gauge) and be free of pitting. Always have them checked by a competent gunsmith who knows antique double guns. 

I love damascus... prefer them actually.

E. Wilson 20ga English Boxlock

















W.R. Pape 16ga  English Sidelock


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## GLS (May 15, 2015)

Adam, beauts!  Gil


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## Whiteeagle (May 15, 2015)

Another GREAT option for the 12 ga. Damascus barrels is to have them "Sleeved" down to a smaller gage. 20 ga. shoots good in the old girls, with the bonus of being able to use 3" shells!


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## Sam H (Jun 14, 2015)

*"Fox still gets the game"....=100yrs Later*

I STILL say a Fox Sterlingworth is the best "American made' vintage shotgun on the market....Its a "Blue Collar" workmans hunting shout gun....You can buy a 12ga (in GOOD hunting condition for $1000/less All Day Long!!

I have a 16ga built on a 20ga frame(6 1/4lbs) that I have lost count of the number of quail/woodcock I have killed with it....1913vintage in excellant shape...It was the first year that Fox introduced the "smaller guages" in thier shotgun line...Not a bad hunting tool for a shotgun 102yrs old....and I shoot nothing but RST shells through it...Not damascus barrels though....FWIW

My 20ga is a lot "newer Model Sterlingworth"...circa1926....NEVER had a malfunction with it


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## GLS (Jun 14, 2015)

Sam, here's my Sterly 16, 1922, with the its original box  with matching serial number.


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## Sam H (Jun 15, 2015)

Gil....That's a beautiful gun...And the original box too!!!

I "Personally" think this model/combination of 16ga power/built on a light 20ga frame is probably the Most "Versatile/Hunter friendly"  Upland shotgun ever produced in the USA!....But I'm partial to Fox to begin with!


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