# I will say this.



## Achilles Return (Mar 18, 2011)

Things have gotten a little tense around here, and I don't think I've really helped that. So I wanted to say something.

Religion fascinates me. I am not one of those atheists that would hope to find religion eradicated - it is a treasure of culture and history, and I personally love studying it from an academic viewpoint. How could I not? One only has to look at the Islamic Masjid al-Haram or the Christian Hagia Sophia to see how much of a footprint religion has had on our values and society. Our past is literally shaped by Religion.

I also do not believe that the impact religion has had seems solidly negative, and I can see balance between its positive and negative influences . 

For these reasons, do not believe I am here to 'de-convert' you. I truly am not bothered by your choice of faith - I'm very much for the freedom of conscious. Also, I'm advocate heavily for a freedom of religion, as it includes the freedom from religion as well. I will never support an atheist state. I believe secularism is the true path towards religious balance.

Now saying all of this, what makes me come here? Well, I want to do my best to clear up any misconceptions about what I believe or don't believe. I find in the South (I've been here all my life), atheists aren't taken too kindly, and I would like to defend myself against any claims that aren't sufficed.  I also speak heavily against involving religion in matters of the state. 

And yes, I do like to debate for the sake of debating. I'd wager anyone here is guilty of that vice. No Christians, you can't use witnessing as a cop out! You know you aren't changing our minds. We have a set and clear standard - evidence, and its pretty clear that Christianity doesn't meet that standard for us. It might for you, and I'm not badging you for it - but the faith thing just isn't us. 

And that's really the center point of all the impasses we come to. Faith - either you have it or you don't. If the tribulation started and 1/3 of the population vanished in thin air - well, that changes things. Until something that that happens, nothings changing for me. 

Perhaps I just need to stay out of the politics forum. It makes me mean.


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Mar 18, 2011)

Wow!


I just like to see Cal get on here and try to make me a believer.  I love you man!


I also like to see a few believers get into one of those rants that reminds me of the temper tantrums my 16 month old has when she does not get her way.  I cant understand her jibberish either...


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## vowell462 (Mar 18, 2011)

Like you, religion fascinates me as well. I find others belief to be very interesting.


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## ted_BSR (Mar 19, 2011)

Sounds like your heart may be softening Achilles.

Nah, probably not, but I hope and pray for you!


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 19, 2011)

Hey guys, you know what I believe, I would like to say that the arguments against faith fascinate me. Most all your points are very logical. It does fascinate me. Makes me think. Christians are all to guilty of not knowing the arguments. I learn from the opposition to my faith. Also,  I chuckle at your sense of humor each day as I go through the daily post. Thanks for that.


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## TTom (Mar 19, 2011)

Being forced to defend your beliefs does one thing for certain. You are forced to confront what they really are.


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## 1gr8bldr (Mar 19, 2011)

TTom said:


> Being forced to defend your beliefs does one thing for certain. You are forced to confront what they really are.


Yes, so right, We learn that there is no proof. It is by faith alone.


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## stringmusic (Mar 19, 2011)

Achilles Return said:


> Things have gotten a little tense around here, and I don't think I've really helped that. So I wanted to say something.
> 
> Religion fascinates me. I am not one of those atheists that would hope to find religion eradicated - it is a treasure of culture and history, and I personally love studying it from an academic viewpoint. How could I not? One only has to look at the Islamic Masjid al-Haram or the Christian Hagia Sophia to see how much of a footprint religion has had on our values and society. Our past is literally shaped by Religion.
> 
> ...


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## Thanatos (Mar 19, 2011)

Great thread. Thank you

I have grown tremendously  in my faith by debating with you guys.  I truly appreciate your perspective.


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## CAL (Mar 20, 2011)

11P&YBOWHUNTER said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> I just like to see Cal get on here and try to make me a believer.  I love you man!
> ...



DadGum you P&Y.You might look like er bulldog, act like er bulldog and never smile,but you ain't fooling me one little bit.You are a good guy and I know it,gonna get you to Heaven too.Just you wait.

I ain't lost interest in the rest of you ole sinners like me either.Just ya'll wait,if ya think I been after you.Ya ain't seen nothing yet.See here,gonna leave this here thought with ya. I happen to have the Lord on my side and that is the best it is whether you believe this or not.In time you will all see,believe me.

As far as the ranting and raving,ain't worth tha time to do it.Just er waste to think anyone listens to ranting and raving.I will say it is rather entertaining though.Makes me think how i must have looked during one of my fits.


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## V2500Inspector (Mar 20, 2011)

I'd rather believe and be wrong than to doubt and find out I was worng. It's too late then. Personally I have seen and felt the work of god in my life. No one can change that. I work with some non believers. We respect each others right to believe how we want and enjoy "debates" from time to time.


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## jmharris23 (Mar 23, 2011)

Good thread....thanks


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## applejuice (Mar 23, 2011)

V2500Inspector said:


> I'd rather believe and be wrong than to doubt and find out I was worng. It's too late then. Personally I have seen and felt the work of god in my life. No one can change that. I work with some non believers. We respect each others right to believe how we want and enjoy "debates" from time to time.



So an insurance policy for your soul?
Sounds like you have doubts but you don't explore them.


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## CAL (Mar 23, 2011)

applejuice said:


> So an insurance policy for your soul?



Nope,not for me just the best way to live.It really don't get any better when ya follow what the Lord teaches.If you haven't,well now open up ya old hardened heart and let the Lord in.Now ya got to give it your best cause it ain't like tasting cracklin bread to see if ya like it.Make the Lord the leader of your life,ya won't be sorry.Just think,when we get to Heaven we can keep on er arguing about things like who caught the biggest fish and so forth.


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## RdKill (Mar 23, 2011)

I find it interesting that all religions from the Middle East seem to have the same common rule.  Not so much how you live (though that tends to be important too) but BELIEVE.  BELIEVE in this religion or be punished!  Believe and be rewarded after you die!  I, personally find it hard to believe that "believing" is the key to heaven...except Judaism...They seem to prefer keeping their religion to themselves and enforce unrealistic dietary disciplines on each other...shrug...


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