# Braining Tanning Question



## DvilleDawn

Hiya *waves*

My husband and I will be taking our very first deer next week (Tuesday and Wednesday). We are doing all of our own field dressing, skinning, and processing. I plan to skin my deer keeping in mind that I will keep my hide for tanning. Because it will be Thanksgiving I probably wont get to my hide until Friday or Saturday. 

1.) I know I can freeze it, but my understanding is that freezing makes wet-scrapping more difficult? Is it okay if my hide is soaking for that many days in my aluminum sulfate solution?

We are for the most part hunting to fill a freezer (does) but I may take a paticular buck that I have my eye on. I plan to do a european skull mount, so I want to take care to not damage it. 

2.) What is the best way to get the brains out of a buck without destroying the skull? Or in this case would I be better off to just get some hog brains from my butcher? 

Thanks in advance for any responses!!
Dawn


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## Trefer

Dawn, 
1)Freezing is the best way to preserve a skin until you work it.  It does not make anything more difficult.  I often work hides that have been in deep freeze for years. I've never used aluminum sulfate, so can't help you there - you must be planning on keeping the hair on.
2) really difficult to get the brains out without damaging the skull.  you can pull a lot out through the stem at the base of the neck, but not all of it.  Pork brains work just fine, or use doe brains for your tanning.  A hack saw (or saws-all) is quick work to make two quick cuts - one behind the eyes, the other in front of the ears - that intersect, making it easy to remove the wedge from the top of the skull. If you stop by a processor, just ask them if you can scoop out some brains from the buck heads they've already sawed the antlers off of.  

Good luck in the woods!

Oh, and to answer your question on the other post, I may offer another tanning class in the spring - and Chehawknapper has a class or two during the year down near Albany. May be some others that offer them, too, but I don't know of them


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## DvilleDawn

Trefer said:


> Dawn,
> 1)Freezing is the best way to preserve a skin until you work it.  It does not make anything more difficult.  I often work hides that have been in deep freeze for years. I've never used aluminum sulfate, so can't help you there - you must be planning on keeping the hair on.
> 2) really difficult to get the brains out without damaging the skull.  you can pull a lot out through the stem at the base of the neck, but not all of it.  Pork brains work just fine, or use doe brains for your tanning.  A hack saw (or saws-all) is quick work to make two quick cuts - one behind the eyes, the other in front of the ears - that intersect, making it easy to remove the wedge from the top of the skull. If you stop by a processor, just ask them if you can scoop out some brains from the buck heads they've already sawed the antlers off of.
> 
> Good luck in the woods!
> 
> Oh, and to answer your question on the other post, I may offer another tanning class in the spring - and Chehawknapper has a class or two during the year down near Albany. May be some others that offer them, too, but I don't know of them



Thanks Trefer for responding! 

Im up in your neck of the woods so I will for sure be watching out for another one of your classes. Sure hate I missed this one. Although as you can see, Im gonna go ahead and give it try anyways. =D

I am planning to do buckskin (hairless). I would like furs but I understand this is a little tricky so I figured I would try this first.

1.) If not aluminum sulfate, would you suggest I use lye?

I plan to use every hide from every deer that I take, so my doe brains are already spoken for. I'll try doing as you said and pull it out through the stem. If I cant get it, then I will just run down the road like you suggested and hit up my local processor for some.

Thanks for your advice thus far, its GREATLY appreciated!


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## Bill Mc

> 1.) If not aluminum sulfate, would you suggest I use lye?



In the class, we used (or Trefer used) potassium hydroxide.

Get the book "Deerskins into Buckskinds" by Matt Richards. Trefer sells them for $20 at his class.


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## DvilleDawn

Bill Mc said:


> In the class, we used (or Trefer used) potassium hydroxide.
> 
> Get the book "Deerskins into Buckskinds" by Matt Richards. Trefer sells them for $20 at his class.



I was looking for potassium hydroxide last night. I never could find where to purchase it from. Where did you get yours?


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## SELFBOW

Get wood ash from a local BBQ joint and brains from the processer.

Here's a thread w pics and suggestions.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=594272&highlight=


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## DvilleDawn

buckbacks said:


> Get wood ash from a local BBQ joint and brains from the processer.
> 
> Here's a thread w pics and suggestions.
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=594272&highlight=



Ive read that you can use ash. 
Does it effect it in the same way as the potasium?


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## Trefer

Hardwood ash is the 'original' lye solution.  I'm no chemist, but from what I understand the chemical make-up of hardwood ashes is actually potassium hydroxide (and probably a few other assorted things).  The lye (KOH) that I buy from Matt Richards and use in my tanning is just a refined version of that in easy to use flake form.  Just a lot easier to measure and cleaner to use.  I don't have to worry about the ash staining the skin with gray streaks.   Historically, people would just clean out their fire pit and rub the ashes with some water into the skin, roll it up and keep it damp for a few days.  Soaking the skin in a container (like a plastic bucket large enough to move the hide around in so its not jammed in tight) with a 2 to 1 ash to water ratio works well. I save all my ashes from my fireplace when I clean it out and sometimes use them when I'm short the KOH.
The main difference is the ash solution doesn't swell the skin up as much and make it as slippery and rubbery feeling.  The whole idea of the lye anyway is really 3-fold:  It helps slip the hair easily, causing it turn loose at the roots; it breaks the chemical bonds that hold the grain layer onto the fiber network of the skin(the part you are trying to get to), making for easier scraping; and it flushes out a lot of the natural glue-like mucous from between the fibers, making more room for the brain oil to penetrate and lubricate the fibers.....(and it keeps the process a little bit sterile so you don't have to worry too much about getting infections in cuts/scratches in your hands)

...or something like that 

You can do it without using lye or ashes, but its a lot harder to scrape, brain and soften.....another alternative is just to soak the hide in a bucket of water for 2 or 3 weeks.  It'll scrape easily because its half rotten - and smells TERRIBLE.  Definitely don't recommend doing it that way.


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## DvilleDawn

Trefer said:


> Hardwood ash is the 'original' lye solution.  I'm no chemist, but from what I understand the chemical make-up of hardwood ashes is actually potassium hydroxide (and probably a few other assorted things).  The lye (KOH) that I buy from Matt Richards and use in my tanning is just a refined version of that in easy to use flake form.  Just a lot easier to measure and cleaner to use.  I don't have to worry about the ash staining the skin with gray streaks.   Historically, people would just clean out their fire pit and rub the ashes with some water into the skin, roll it up and keep it damp for a few days.  Soaking the skin in a container (like a plastic bucket large enough to move the hide around in so its not jammed in tight) with a 2 to 1 ash to water ratio works well. I save all my ashes from my fireplace when I clean it out and sometimes use them when I'm short the KOH.
> The main difference is the ash solution doesn't swell the skin up as much and make it as slippery and rubbery feeling.  The whole idea of the lye anyway is really 3-fold:  It helps slip the hair easily, causing it turn loose at the roots; it breaks the chemical bonds that hold the grain layer onto the fiber network of the skin(the part you are trying to get to), making for easier scraping; and it flushes out a lot of the natural glue-like mucous from between the fibers, making more room for the brain oil to penetrate and lubricate the fibers.....(and it keeps the process a little bit sterile so you don't have to worry too much about getting infections in cuts/scratches in your hands)...or something like that  You can do it without using lye or ashes, but its a lot harder to scrape, brain and soften.....another alternative is just to soak the hide in a bucket of water for 2 or 3 weeks.  It'll scrape easily because its half rotten - and smells TERRIBLE.  Definitely don't recommend doing it that way.



I read that you could just soak it, but that it reeks bad, that just tells me that I couldnt do it that way without making my own mess! 

I have my plastic tubs, drain pipe stand, scraping tool, wire cable to break my hide on, rock to hold hide under water, bamboo stick for stirring, vinager, and gloves. I STILL NEED my post to twist dry my hides on, my KOH or Ash, and a hide.

Am I missing anything?
If I choose to use KOH, where might I get that locally?
Would the Tractor Store have it?

UPDATED: What about this product from Aamazon?
http://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Hydroxide-Flakes-Koh-Lbs/dp/B001EDK0WK

Thanks so much thus far for your help, you have been more then patient with me and extremely helpful!!


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## Trefer

It sounds like you are ready to go! I don't know where you can get KOH locally - i buy it from Matt in 50# bags....used to could use really watered down red devil lye before it was removed from the shelves (I've heard that some small hardware stores still stock it) --the Amazon source is perfect.   It is used by hobby soap-makers in homemade soap recipes. 
Good luck - post some pics when you get started!


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## DvilleDawn

Trefer said:


> It sounds like you are ready to go! I don't know where you can get KOH locally - i buy it from Matt in 50# bags....used to could use really watered down red devil lye before it was removed from the shelves (I've heard that some small hardware stores still stock it) --the Amazon source is perfect.   It is used by hobby soap-makers in homemade soap recipes.
> Good luck - post some pics when you get started!



Thanks a ton man you're the best.
For sure I will update yall!


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## deersled

I couldn't find KOH locally so I use "hydrated lime". Get it at a feed-n-seed or nursery. Don't think regular lime will do the trick. Trefer is the guy to be talking with. good luck. If I can do it.....anybody can


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## DvilleDawn

deersled said:


> I couldn't find KOH locally so I use "hydrated lime". Get it at a feed-n-seed or nursery. Don't think regular lime will do the trick. Trefer is the guy to be talking with. good luck. If I can do it.....anybody can



I posted a link above to a dealer on Amazon.com that has KOH. What I dont think I know now is how much KOH to add to the water?


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## Bill Mc

> 1.) If not aluminum sulfate, would you suggest I use lye?



I finished reading that book and alulminum sulfate is to neutralize the alkaline (POH)

We used apple cider vinegar instead.

Take the class. Hands on beat reading.


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## DvilleDawn

Bill Mc said:


> I finished reading that book and alulminum sulfate is to neutralize the alkaline (POH)
> We used apple cider vinegar instead.
> Take the class. Hands on beat reading.



Thanks for the advice. Im new around here and missed the class which is a shame. So Im gonna go it alone for now and hope that what I have learned from a lot of reading will be enough to get me started or well on my way. Gotta get me a hide this week! =D


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## Bill Mc

Good luck.

Check with Trefer about where he might be putting on a demo at one of the Pow wows.


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## DvilleDawn

Bill Mc said:


> Good luck.
> 
> Check with Trefer about where he might be putting on a demo at one of the Pow wows.



For sure Trefer is the go to man around here it seems. Works for me. He has been gracious enough to answer my questions. I cant wait to someday soon meet him and see him in action.

Bout to head to bed, I got deer to hunt in the morn!! Although I already know the evening will be better. hah! So I'll just do both!!

THANKS!!


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## GT-40 GUY

I always gag when trying to chew on the raw brains.

gt40


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## DvilleDawn

GT-40 GUY said:


> I always gag when trying to chew on the raw brains. gt40



 ewwwwww!!
Get a blender! =D


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## TNGIRL

Richie, if you do decide to have a spring brain tanning class, PLEASE let me know.:jump: If there's not a 3D shoot that weekend....I am there.:cow:


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## farmer

It's hard to find lye locally anymore because it's a key ingredient in making meth apparently.  As has been mentioned, it can be ordered from Matt or from candle making supply companies.  Ash is helpful because it stains the grain and it's easier to see where you've scraped.

Before I got scared of CWD, I would get a bunch of doe heads from the processor and chop them open with an axe to get the brains out.  Now I order pork brains by the case from the grocery store.


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## Trefer

DvilleDawn said:


> For sure Trefer is the go to man around here it seems. Works for me. He has been gracious enough to answer my questions. I cant wait to someday soon meet him and see him in action.
> 
> Bout to head to bed, I got deer to hunt in the morn!! Although I already know the evening will be better. hah! So I'll just do both!!
> 
> THANKS!!



Don't know about all that, but I have been tanning skins for awhile.  As have others on this board I'm sure.  There are a lot of ways to get from point A to point B -- Chehawknapper and I go about it in really different ways (wetscrape/dryscrape) but his beautiful hides are one of the things that motivated me early on. 
I can only offer what works for me.  You'll just need to experiment with different 'tweaks' to the process and see what works best for you.  Good luck - and hope you had success in the woods this morning:trampoline:


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## DvilleDawn

Trefer said:


> Don't know about all that, but I have been tanning skins for awhile.  As have others on this board I'm sure.  There are a lot of ways to get from point A to point B -- Chehawknapper and I go about it in really different ways (wetscrape/dryscrape) but his beautiful hides are one of the things that motivated me early on.
> I can only offer what works for me.  You'll just need to experiment with different 'tweaks' to the process and see what works best for you.  Good luck - and hope you had success in the woods this morning:trampoline:




Thanks, but I have had no luck the last two days in the woods. The deer have disapeared! I think they think we are playing hide-n-seek. When I go out tomorrow before cooking, I think I will scream "come out come out where ever you are" and see if they come running.   I do know however that if worse comes to worse I can just try visiting my local processor for a hide. Although I would like to think it wont come down to that. 

I know your right, there does seem to be so many ways to get from point A to point B. Hopefully I have learned just enough to avoid "major issues". Although, Im pretty sure that after I do it the first time, making mistakes along the way, I will learn other ways to handle differant situation. Hopefully I dont have to learn "to many" lessons the hard way! 

My KOH arrived today via UPS so Im ready! 
Now the deer just need to cooperate!


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## deersled

fresh road kill is another way to get a hide so you can be careful skinning it. Alot of hides will have holes and knife scores from the processor.


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## DvilleDawn

deersled said:


> fresh road kill is another way to get a hide so you can be careful skinning it. Alot of hides will have holes and knife scores from the processor.



Everything I have read about getting them from processors talks about them having cuts and nicks. Thats why I hope to get my own, so I can avoid that. If all else fails I figured I could ask some of the successful hunters on here for thiers. =D

Road kill? I dont see many deer on the side of the road. But thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep that option in mind.


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## Trefer

deersled said:


> fresh road kill is another way to get a hide so you can be careful skinning it. Alot of hides will have holes and knife scores from the processor.



I drove from Cumming to Alpharetta the other morning on GA 400 and saw 3 dead ones on the way down and 2 on the way back....just gotta be a little 'choosey' on the ones you try to save.  :nono: Fresh is best! And some are so messed up its hard to tell exactly what they were

Some processors are better than others about taking the hides off.  You gotta remember that for them the hide is just like a wrapper on your candy bar - gotta rip it off to get to the 'good stuff' inside! The one I use now is really good - just a few knife cuts and then they pull it off right over the head.  Others I've been to have hides that are cut to ribbons!  If you go by and talk to the guys that do the actual skinning (not the person that answers the phone), and explain what you are doing, sometimes they'll make the extra effort for you when good deer come through.  
Good luck with it!  Can't wait to see your photos


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## SELFBOW

deersled said:


> fresh road kill is another way to get a hide so you can be careful skinning it. Alot of hides will have holes and knife scores from the processor.



The guy I got mine from uses a golfball to skin his deer. only cut is around the neck and the feet cut off. They are the best ones to get...


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## DvilleDawn

buckbacks said:


> The guy I got mine from uses a golfball to skin his deer. only cut is around the neck and the feet cut off. They are the best ones to get...



I saw a video on using a golfball, it actually made it look easy. Everything I have read has said that when the hide is important to you, it is best to not be overly concerned about the meat and to just tear away the hide.

How much damage does this do to the meat if any?


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## chehawknapper

The late Charlie Elliot showed the golf ball method to Charlie Marshall who then gave the info to probably hundreds of his wildlife students at ABAC. I have not commented on this thread because you are interested in wet scrape which I have not done in probably 20 years. I dry scrape only now. Richie is your man for wet scrape for sure.


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## DvilleDawn

chehawknapper said:


> The late Charlie Elliot showed the golf ball method to Charlie Marshall who then gave the info to probably hundreds of his wildlife students at ABAC. I have not commented on this thread because you are interested in wet scrape which I have not done in probably 20 years. I dry scrape only now. Richie is your man for wet scrape for sure.



Well maybe I am interested in doing a wet scrape brecause I dont know the benefits of a dry scrape. 
Everything I have read says that a dry scrape is more difficult and that tears are more common? Is this a myth or just dumb? 

But seriously, I am doing just what I learned from everything I read and it seemed more common to do a wet scrape. So really I didnt choose it, just the information on it was more readily available and appeared to be more common. So I figured if more people are doing a wet scrapping then this must be the "best"  or "right" method. 

So please by all means, if you have the time, enlighten me?  I would love to hear why you gave up wet scrapping. I cant imagine you gave it up because it was more difficult so there must be benefits to it that I am totally clueless about. =D


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## deersled

I've never done a dry scrape. But I have wore out some of the guys on here (Trefer, Cheehawknapper, Choctawlb, Nicodemus, etc. etc) with a ton of questions. I think the wet scrape is just that.....WET. It gets messy, slimy, possibly a little stinky. From what they tell me the main difference is "dry" is a little cleaner, you can take more breaks (you don't have to worry about the hide drying out on you at the wrong time). You have got me fired up again. I think I am going to go by the processor and sift thru his hides to see if I can find any good ones. I'm still learning but I have done a few that I am quite proud of. It is very rewarding to go from a nappy looking hide to a soft subtle piece of buckskin. Alot of work but I would not consider it difficult, especially with all the wonderful people on here willing to share their expertise and knowledge.


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## chehawknapper

*Wet vs. dry*

Probably 95 per cent of all hides were wet scraped because the entire process can be done with bone tools. I never used any purchased materials back when I wet scraped. I made my own lye with wood ash until I could float an egg with a quarter size of egg above the solution. I found, with the method I was using, that there were stages that had a defined timeline for me to complete. Unfortunately, my life isn't that free with time.


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## chehawknapper

With dry scrape, the only stage that requires finishing once started is removing the hypodermics after tyinging in the frame. That only takes an hour or less.


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## Trefer

chehawknapper said:


> With dry scrape, the only stage that requires finishing once started is removing the hypodermics after tyinging in the frame. That only takes an hour or less.



I totally agree about the "time" issue!!
I have a buckskin shirt that the front panel stayed laced in the frame from Nov. till about March. I'd scrape a little and stop scrape and stop...I always had trouble keeping my scraper sharp enough. 
There are some built in "stopping places" with wet scrape, too. Just not as many as dry scrape. I like to get some skins scraped and rinsed, then I can hang to dry if I need to indefinitely. Lots of times they go in the freezer for awhile if I get tired of stretching after braining...and now that UGA just won, I'm headed out to smoke a few that were stretched last month!!


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## DvilleDawn

I guess Im pretty lucky because I have all of the time in the world on the weekends while hubby works and during the week when he is working on his projects as well. Im hoping I can do at the least 1 hide per weekend, I prefer however to get no less then two done.

Is it hard to find a seamstress who will work with buckskins? 
I dont sew and already have a few pieces I want made.


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## chehawknapper

*Sewing*

Punching holes and lacing with soft buckskin lacing is easy.


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## Trefer

DvilleDawn said:


> I guess Im pretty lucky because I have all of the time in the world on the weekends while hubby works and during the week when he is working on his projects as well. Im hoping I can do at the least 1 hide per weekend, I prefer however to get no less then two done.
> 
> Is it hard to find a seamstress who will work with buckskins?
> I dont sew and already have a few pieces I want made.



PM me. I may know a good 'seams-ter'!


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## DvilleDawn

chehawknapper said:


> Punching holes and lacing with soft buckskin lacing is easy.



Huh? 
By the way those are beautiful chaps in your avi!



Trefer said:


> PM me. I may know a good 'seams-ter'!



Hah! my apologies!  I totally got busted on a sexist comment huh? 
It could be worse, I could ask chehawknapper if his wife made him those beautiful chaps!!  
So I stand corrected, "I will need a seamstress or seamster". PM Sent!


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## White Horse

*Sewing buckskin*

One of the greatest beauties of brain tanned hides is that they can easily be sewn with a needle and thread. Good brain tan will let the needle slip through with no effort at all, though sometimes a heavy thread will "catch" on its way out.

Beadwork also is a breeze on brain tan. I sure do wish I had know about that when I first started doing beadwork. Trying to bead on commercially tanned hides wore the ends of my fingers out before I finally learned!

The early traditional Plains style beadwork was done by punching holes partially through only the top layer of hide with a sharp awl, then putting the beads onto sinew thread, then running the sinew though the holes. This was also the basic method of doing sewn quillwork; the quills were folded in various ways around sinew threads sewn partially through the brain tanned skin. Just try that with commercially tanned hides!

Even heavy moose hide can easily be sewed together if it's brain tanned.

Practice on a scrap or two and you'll be ready for bigger projects.


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## DvilleDawn

White Horse said:


> One of the greatest beauties of brain tanned hides is that they can easily be sewn with a needle and thread. Good brain tan will let the needle slip through with no effort at all, though sometimes a heavy thread will "catch" on its way out. Beadwork also is a breeze on brain tan. I sure do wish I had know about that when I first started doing beadwork. Trying to bead on commercially tanned hides wore the ends of my fingers out before I finally learned! The early traditional Plains style beadwork was done by punching holes partially through only the top layer of hide with a sharp awl, then putting the beads onto sinew thread, then running the sinew though the holes. This was also the basic method of doing sewn quillwork; the quills were folded in various ways around sinew threads sewn partially through the brain tanned skin. Just try that with commercially tanned hides! Even heavy moose hide can easily be sewed together if it's brain tanned. Practice on a scrap or two and you'll be ready for bigger projects.



Thanks! This was very informative and even more so interesting to say the least. 

Without a doubt once I learn to brain tan hides and furs I would love to learn how to sew them and even do bead work, etc. However when it comes to sewing, my experience and knowledge in this area is like slim to none. So needless to say at some point I will need to overcome this hurdle.  Im trying to not overwhelm myself all at once even though I want to know it all now! I havent taken the time to learn about making sinew but I know I will have to at some point learn about this in more depth for things I would like to accomplish. I want so badly to learn about how to do native primative skills and the history so that it what I am working towards for sure.


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## chehawknapper

Made the bow, arrows including the arrowheads, pitch glue, hide glue, shot the deer, skinned and processed the deer, tanned the hides with brains and smoke, cut out and laced shirt pants and mocs. Karen cut the fringe nice and even.


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## DvilleDawn

I dont completely understand everything you said, but Im extremely and completely intrigued and impressed.  
I totally want to fast forward to a time when I am doing this!!


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## lagrangedave

What he said is " You are an overconfident, self indulging, wanna be who is nipping at the heels of mastercraftsmen that though humble are tiring of your questions and attitude."


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## Bill Mc

lagrangedave said:


> What he said is " You are an overconfident, self indulging, wanna be who is nipping at the heels of mastercraftsmen that though humble are tiring of your questions and attitude."



I don't think so...

Trefer reminded us during the brain tanning course that the women do all of that. The fleshing, the graining, the braining, the streching while driyng and the smoking. 

Then they made the clothes from the hides.


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## DvilleDawn

lagrangedave said:


> What he said is " You are an overconfident, self indulging, wanna be who is nipping at the heels of mastercraftsmen that though humble are tiring of your questions and attitude."



Im glad to know that you are ignorant enough to think you speak for chehawknapper! 
If anyone becomes tired of my questions, they dont have to respond.

I however would prefer to think that most have a greater appreciation for those who truely are trying to learn and have an interest in the work they do, more so than for the people who come out here and act like they already know it all or just want "the" answer which is impossible to provide. 

Believe me I see a lot of people on this forum with unrealistic expectations about what is involved in successful tanning. I guess maybe you prefer the people out here that come in after they have already gathered tons of hides and ruined them by totally jumping into something they knew absolutely nothing about. If so, go post on thier topics and help them.

What I lack in knowledge on this subject, I at least make up for it in enthusiasm.


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## chehawknapper

You have in NO way bothered me in the least! As long as someone is asking with respect I will gladly help them. You are alot closer to Trefer than to me, but just to prove a point, you have a free slot in my dry scrape class next time I do one. Come to Chehaw's Frontier Festival Jan. 6,7&8 and I'll give you as much time as I can (gotta put on the event). Trefer said he was going to try to make it this year. Christina Gordon might make it as well. If so, there will be hides getting tanned all over!


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## White Horse

*Teaching and helping*

I have known Chehawknapper for close to 30 years now, and I have always found him ready to teach or help. That's one thing all the great craftsmen and women I know have in common. They are willing to share their knowledge to anyone who would like to learn.

Y'all may know or know of Bill and Kathy Brewer, who live up in Illinois. They make top quality replicas of all kinds of American Indian things. Their rawhide work is fantastic. Their boxes and cases are exactly like antiques. The Brewers have a number of movie credits, including "Dances With Wolves," "Legends of the Fall," and others.

Even though it's their living the Brewers are always willing to teach others and to share their research. They hold seminars about rawhide work, even though that's their bread and butter. Another great crafts couple is Jan Zender and Rochelle Dale, who were featured in one of the Books of Buckskinning. Once again, though they are among the best, and that's how they make their living, they are always willing to teach and share. Ol' Chehawknapper is like that too.


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## Trefer

You haven't bothered me either DD....I'm happy to help.  Don't know why lagrange dave got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning )


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## SELFBOW

Trefer said:


> You haven't bothered me either DD....I'm happy to help.  Don't know why lagrange dave got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning )



He was making a joke....

DD be sure to post pics of your process and progress.


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## lagrangedave

I apologize DvilleDawn. I was out of line.


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## DvilleDawn

chehawknapper said:


> You have in NO way bothered me in the least! As long as someone is asking with respect I will gladly help them. You are alot closer to Trefer than to me, but just to prove a point, you have a free slot in my dry scrape class next time I do one. Come to Chehaw's Frontier Festival Jan. 6,7&8 and I'll give you as much time as I can (gotta put on the event). Trefer said he was going to try to make it this year. Christina Gordon might make it as well. If so, there will be hides getting tanned all over!



Wow Chehawknapper you are far to kind! But without a doubt Im gonna look where your Chehaw Frontier Festival is in Jan. and do everything possible to get out there to it. I would absolutely love to attend and see you doing your thing!



White Horse said:


> I have known Chehawknapper for close to 30 years now, and I have always found him ready to teach or help. That's one thing all the great craftsmen and women I know have in common. They are willing to share their knowledge to anyone who would like to learn.
> Y'all may know or know of Bill and Kathy Brewer, who live up in Illinois. They make top quality replicas of all kinds of American Indian things. Their rawhide work is fantastic. Their boxes and cases are exactly like antiques. The Brewers have a number of movie credits, including "Dances With Wolves," "Legends of the Fall," and others.
> Even though it's their living the Brewers are always willing to teach others and to share their research. They hold seminars about rawhide work, even though that's their bread and butter. Another great crafts couple is Jan Zender and Rochelle Dale, who were featured in one of the Books of Buckskinning. Once again, though they are among the best, and that's how they make their living, they are always willing to teach and share. Ol' Chehawknapper is like that too.



You know I couldnt agree more with you. Most are very willing to help out those who truely want to learn. I know thats how I have always been. Plus come on, when people absolutely love what they do, usually they jump on opportunities to talk shop.



Trefer said:


> You haven't bothered me either DD....I'm happy to help.  Don't know why lagrange dave got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning )



Thanks Trefer and you have been a huge help.
As for Lagrange....It happens, I guess we all have off days. =/ 



buckbacks said:


> He was making a joke....
> DD be sure to post pics of your process and progress.



I wasnt amused by his name calling. =/
Im gonna post pictures of what I am getting setup.
IM SO EXCITED!! My hubby spoils me good!! =D



lagrangedave said:


> I apologize DvilleDawn. I was out of line.



Thanks LangrangeDave I appreciate that.


----------



## DvilleDawn

So what are yall's thoughts on a smoke house?

I decided to go with a smoke house because I like the idea of hanging my hides. I wont have to stop work if it rains. I wont have to worry about critters getting my hides. And Hey............ I could hang hides and sausage at the same time!!  

My building will be completed Wed. We have ordered an actual smoker box for it, and that will be attached to the side of it at the bottom. The smoker should arrive Saturday and then I will post pictures of the completed project.


----------



## DvilleDawn

Since I finshed up a bamboo project I was working on, while I was in the shop I figured I would take pictures of my entire Scrape Stand and share its design with all of you. I may do a lot of talking, but that never means I havent also been super busy getting ready to tan hides

Here is my complete Scrape Stand design. 

The standing platform as you will see in the next pic is not attached but it is adjustable forwards or backwards for different size people. Its purpose is to make the standing area wider and to help sturdy the entire stand while in use.







Here is the other side of the standing platform. It just lays on the back beam forming a wider platform and steady hold for the overall stand.






This is a rear view and shows my little swivle thingy which locks the top down.






And here is the entire thing folded up and ready to store away or ready for travel.






Hope you all think I did GOOD!! =D


----------



## farmer

DvilleDawn said:


> So what are yall's thoughts on a smoke house?



You won't get an evenly smoked skin in a smoker and it'll take a lot longer (days) than using the conventional method of sewing or gluing a skin to itself or another skin to form a sack.  A smoker will also require much more fuel.  When smoke goes into the skin sack, it builds up pressure and forces smoke through the skin effectively coating all of the skin fibers.


----------



## DvilleDawn

farmer said:


> You won't get an evenly smoked skin in a smoker and it'll take a lot longer (days) than using the conventional method of sewing or gluing a skin to itself or another skin to form a sack.  A smoker will also require much more fuel.  When smoke goes into the skin sack, it builds up pressure and forces smoke through the skin effectively coating all of the skin fibers.




Would this be the case with a small smoke house? 
Im only talking about a smoke house about the size of a tight out-house.
Look forward to your input when I get back, Im headed to the feild! I need a deer!


----------



## farmer

Yeah, it would be the same for a smoke house.  A fan will help distribute the smoke more evenly, but it will still take forever to smoke and won't do as good of a job as the sack method.  You can smoke a pair of skins in as little as 15 minutes (usually closer to an hour or 2) with a sack compared with at least a couple of days in a smoke house.


----------



## Trefer

I have to agree with Farmer on this one.  I built a small smokehouse many years ago after letting my coals get too hot and ruining a hide.  I only used it twice, both times with very disappointing results.  It took two days just to get the slightest color in the hides.....its like the smoke just floats around and might, or might not, decide to stick to some skin fibers.....usually not tho, it seems. 
So its been back to the bag for me ever since. And I pay a lot closer attention to whats going on with the temperature !


----------



## chehawknapper

Me three in agreement! Years ago I thought I could smoke a bunch of hides at once in my 18' tipi and they would all have the same color. Just like they said - after about 2 days, a truck load of good smoking wood - next to nothing. I had the smoke flaps shut tight and it looked great. You could not even see the skins when you looked in, for that matter, you couldn't see anything but smoke but very poor results.


----------



## DvilleDawn

farmer said:


> ..





Trefer said:


> ..





chehawknapper said:


> ..



Thanks guys for your input. 

Out of all of the smoke houses I have read about, the least time I have seen the smoke house process gotten down to was like 8 hours (which isnt to bad). This was a smokehouse with the fire pit inside the smokehouse verses pumping it in from a pit outside or blowing it around with a fan. This without a doubt leaves me to believe that is has tons to do with heat / temperature as well as the smoke. 

I dont know, maybe just like how our pours open up in heat, so does the pours of a hide?

I do love the pros of using a smoke house, uniformed color for garmets, lack of burning skin accidents, more hands off while continue to do some scraping, multiple hides being smoked at once, doubles as a meat smoker, weather not an issue, easier for odd sizes, and lack of burning hair on furs. But as with everything there are also the cons which you all have graciously brought up. And without a doubt the amount of wood used would be extremely higher. 

I am betting my hubby would kill me if I started using his project wood as my pile of punky wood deminished.   

So after rethinking the input on the pros and cons I think what I will do is start out by doing my hides with a garmet bag over a smoke stack since I cant for the life of me imagine having tons of hides to do in the first place. Heck, I have yet to have killed even my first deer. 

Yet on the side / down days, I think I will play with some ideas about making this process of using a smokehouse work. Maybe I am a scientist at heart because I was told I could never kiln dry bamboo to its natural dried color quickly, but after many many many failed experments I have accomplished exactly that. Plus, you have to admit the best way to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly, and what works best is to play with differant ideas, as obviously you all have done. I believe that this contributes tons to why you are all as good as you are at this stuff. 

Okay or maybe Im just a kid at heart that never takes no for an answer and has to learn everything the hard way.  

As always I greatly appreciate that you are willing to share your experiences and knowledge.


----------



## farmer

Uniform color is not necessarily something you can expect from a smokehouse.  Yes, heat is a big factor.  A friend of mine hired a chemist to look at the smoking process.  He found that it's a combination of heat and smoke that catalyzes the reaction with the brains and skin.  More heat = shorter smoke time.  So the key is smoking as hot as possible without scorching.  But if you're not getting the pressure you get with a sack, your smoke isn't penetrating the skin like it would otherwise, so it will take longer to smoke, regardless.

Most folks who have made buckskin for a while have tried to make less work for themselves by using a smoker or smokehouse.  In the end, most go back to the old way.  Most of the ones I've done in a smoker have ended up back in a sack, so it was about 10 times more work than it should've been.  To me, it makes a lot more sense to glue it up, hang it over a stove pipe or a hole and fastidiously tend a fire for an hour rather than a few days... or even 8 hours.  It just makes extra work instead of saving it.  

You're right about learning, though, and a lesson learned by your own experience has the most impact.  Maybe you'll find a new trick you can pass on to everyone else.


----------



## TNGIRL

That sure is a fine looking scraper stand DD!!!! I'd like to have one of those myself!!!!!(note to self ...tell boyfriend!!LOL!!)  I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread.....and learned a great deal!!!!!
thanks!!!!


----------



## Trefer

Mighty fine looking scraping stand....I like the hinges and the portability of it, especially the little locking device that holds it down. I'm anxious to see how it works out for you.  The flat standing platform was a good idea.  Once you put a heavy wet hide on the beam, it can make the stand really unsteady. Don't know how many times at powwows and demonstrations I'd stop to talk to somebody and the whole contraption would crash over sideways.  I finally drilled a hole in the bottom board and slid a piece of rebar through the hole to make it stable- kind of like wings on both sides.  Hurry and get yourself a deer.  I'm excited for you to get started!


----------



## DvilleDawn

TNGIRL said:


> That sure is a fine looking scraper stand DD!!!! I'd like to have one of those myself!!!!!(note to self ...tell boyfriend!!LOL!!)  I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread.....and learned a great deal!!!!!
> thanks!!!!



Thanks TNGirl, I hope it works as good as it looks. =D 
For sure its a great discussion with good people. 



Trefer said:


> Mighty fine looking scraping stand....I like the hinges and the portability of it, especially the little locking device that holds it down. I'm anxious to see how it works out for you.  The flat standing platform was a good idea.  Once you put a heavy wet hide on the beam, it can make the stand really unsteady. Don't know how many times at powwows and demonstrations I'd stop to talk to somebody and the whole contraption would crash over sideways.  I finally drilled a hole in the bottom board and slid a piece of rebar through the hole to make it stable- kind of like wings on both sides.  Hurry and get yourself a deer.  I'm excited for you to get started!



Thanks! Oh I like the rebard idea, that works, guess then Im thinking ahead in the right direction. 

Man you aint kidding, I want a deer so bad!! Hubby told me that maybe I should just take a coon until I can get on some big game. 
Believe me that is sounding more and more tempting.  

This is what I came home with this morning.
A crappy cell phone picture of a beautiful snow fall. 
We had almost whiteout conditions, couldnt see nothing, so we walked around scouting in it for about an hour.


----------



## Bill Mc

Just go to one of your local deer processors and get a hide. 

then go to work

Deer generally don't co-operate.


----------



## DvilleDawn

Bill Mc said:


> Just go to one of your local deer processors and get a hide. then go to work
> Deer generally don't co-operate.



Thanks Bill for the suggestion. 

I hope one day to build a good repor with a processor to ensure that I can get some quality pulled hides at a reasonable price. This "then" would be a great option. I get though that processors make thier money per deer. And for this reason, its all about getting it done quickly. The hide being left in intact or in a high quality state is not thier goal, processing meat is.

If you however know of a local processor that sells quality "pulled" hides I would consider this. 

I have known that this is an option. But not one that I feel I have to consider "just yet". Actually its an option I hope to never have to consider. Because if I am considering this option, then that means my freezer is empty.


----------



## DvilleDawn

UPDATE: I found the answer, its rawhide! So Saturday I think I will stop by a processor and see if I can have or buy some hides. And while there I will try and get some legs so that I can also try my hand at making sinew! YAY! Something to work on until I get a couple of deer of my own!

--------------------- Previous Question -----------------------

By George I think Ive got it! 
Bill Mc got me to thinking about what I could make useing what I would call "scrap hides" for from a processor. 

So here is my question.

When making a tom-tom or a tombe, am I to understand correctly that the part of tom-tom that you beat on is hide and the bands are sinew? Would this be brain tanned hide taken to only a certain part of the tanning process? I ask this because every drum I have or have seen, it seems thin and transparent. 

So if anyone can just get me started on what process I need to learn about to accomplish this transparancy it would be greatly appreciated so that I might browse/lookup more information on it?

I would actually be interested in making a frame for hides processed in this manner so that I can draw and/or paint on it. Hopefully combining my new found interest of tanning hides with an old talent I have of drawing. 

I know that many hides at a processors are not garmet worthy so I only wanted to consider using processor hides as a last result. Yet at the same time I have been torn on this because I "really" want to get started on tanning. But my personal battle was that I hate nothing more then to spend endless hours of hard work on something that in the end will be virtually useless to me since I wanted to accomplish tanning hides for garmets which I have discussed with Trefer. So my desire to get started got me to thinking about what I could make from smaller sections that I could easily salvage from processor hides.


----------



## farmer

DvilleDawn said:


> I know that many hides at a processors are not garmet worthy so I only wanted to consider using processor hides as a last result. Yet at the same time I have been torn on this because I "really" want to get started on tanning. But my personal battle was that I hate nothing more then to spend endless hours of hard work on something that in the end will be virtually useless to me since I wanted to accomplish tanning hides for garmets which I have discussed with Trefer. So my desire to get started got me to thinking about what I could make from smaller sections that I could easily salvage from processor hides.



Pulled skins are great, but not absolutely necessary.  If you want them for clothes, I would focus on size.  My processor salts his skins and sells them to a hide dealer.  He lets me pick through any time he has them on hand.  I look for the biggest ones I can find.  Another processor I use in S. GA saves me skins from 200+ lb. deer.  Even when they're not pulled all the way (a lot of processors will tell you they pull them, but then you find the whole bottom half scored) a thick skin won't be affected so much by scoring.

IMO, if you start with smaller skins that are easier to soften, it won't be so frustrating to learn.  Your endless hours of hard work will all go toward developing skill, and small skins are great for bags and baby mocs.


----------



## DvilleDawn

farmer said:


> Pulled skins are great, but not absolutely necessary.  If you want them for clothes, I would focus on size.  My processor salts his skins and sells them to a hide dealer.  He lets me pick through any time he has them on hand.  I look for the biggest ones I can find.  Another processor I use in S. GA saves me skins from 200+ lb. deer.  Even when they're not pulled all the way (a lot of processors will tell you they pull them, but then you find the whole bottom half scored) a thick skin won't be affected so much by scoring.
> 
> IMO, if you start with smaller skins that are easier to soften, it won't be so frustrating to learn.  Your endless hours of hard work will all go toward developing skill, and small skins are great for bags and baby mocs.



Well poo Farmer I hadnt even thought about size! I was focusing more on quality meaning lack of holes and scoring. Thanks! I will for sure keep this in mind for now on.

Me? Make bags or baby mocs?   

Farmer you have never seen my sewing skills, or should I say lack thereof. Thats why I have plans to send my buckskins to an old pro for the finishing work. 

Any tips on how to approach this processor about his hides, legs, and brains? Besides just coming straight out and asking him if I can have/buy some? Im sure he is extremely busy right now, should I call or stop by? I read the most you should pay is 10.00 and that would be for a quality hide, but I dont recall where this person who said that lived. What should I expect to pay for hides?

And thanks Farmer this information has been super helpful.


----------



## farmer

DvilleDawn said:


> Me? Make bags or baby mocs?
> 
> Farmer you have never seen my sewing skills, or should I say lack thereof. Thats why I have plans to send my buckskins to an old pro for the finishing work.



Lol, well it's a lot more fun to have someone else make it, anyway. 

Holes aren't really a problem unless they're huge.  Smaller holes become virtually invisible when sewed properly.

Most processors will jump for joy if you take away their legs and heads... it's less for them to bury or have to pay to dump.  Most of them also sell their skins to dealers for $1 or $2 or $3 depending on the market (I priced some skins a couple of days ago at $1).  They usually don't care who's buying.  $10 is way too much to pay unless someone else has taken the time to flesh it.  I wouldn't spend more than $5.  If a processor is set on selling to a particular dealer, then I'll offer a dollar or 2 more... and if you're just getting a couple skins, it's really no skin off the dealer's back. 

I would probably call first, but it wouldn't hurt to stop by.  Most folks are interested to hear about brain tanning if they're not familiar and they're happy to see the skins go to use for it.  And you may get them for free.

If you offer to skin a deer or 2 and show them how easy it is to pull a skin, you may be able to convince them to pull them all.


----------



## Trefer

I get all mine free.  and 95% of them are in really good shape.  I also have access to heads, feet, bones, surplus antlers,  brains....its all right there for the taking.  
You just gotta stay out of their way - sometimes its so busy I feel lucky to get out alive with my own skin still intact. lol


----------



## DvilleDawn

No shock here, New Question: Are they any less busy during the week then the weekend? Its actually easier for me to go during the week. But more importantly I want to go at the best time and day for them.

All of you guys, Trefer, Farmer, Chehawknapper and Bill Mc are absolutely amazing! 
I cant even begin to express how much I appreciate that all of you have been so patient and extremely helpful!!  



farmer said:


> Lol, well it's a lot more fun to have someone else make it, anyway.
> 
> Holes aren't really a problem unless they're huge.  Smaller holes become virtually invisible when sewed properly.
> 
> and if you're just getting a couple skins, it's really no skin off the dealer's back.
> 
> I would probably call first, but it wouldn't hurt to stop by.  Most folks are interested to hear about brain tanning if they're not familiar and they're happy to see the skins go to use for it.  And you may get them for free.
> 
> If you offer to skin a deer or 2 and show them how easy it is to pull a skin, you may be able to convince them to pull them all.



Virtually invisible when sewn properly? I could make a deer frankenstien!!  
I'll work on my sewing skills, but "until then" I need to avoid the seriously Holy Hides!! 

Note to self, get some cash and put on my charming personality!! Got it! 

Farmer are you insane? Me? Show him how easy it is to skin a deer?  
I cant prove nothing yet and might end up looking like a total idiot!! EPIC FAIL!! 



Trefer said:


> I get all mine free.  and 95% of them are in really good shape.  I also have access to heads, feet, bones, surplus antlers,  brains....its all right there for the taking.
> You just gotta stay out of their way - sometimes its so busy I feel lucky to get out alive with my own skin still intact. lol



Surplus antlers?  Oh wow Trefer I assumed everyone who took a buck/spike kept thier antlers themselves! I want some antlers too!! Heck I'll just clean him out if he will let me!! 

Note to self, when I meet Trefer and he is skinnless, dont ask, just assume he's been harvesting processed deer.


----------



## Nicodemus

chehawknapper said:


> You have in NO way bothered me in the least! As long as someone is asking with respect I will gladly help them. You are alot closer to Trefer than to me, but just to prove a point, you have a free slot in my dry scrape class next time I do one. Come to Chehaw's Frontier Festival Jan. 6,7&8 and I'll give you as much time as I can (gotta put on the event). Trefer said he was going to try to make it this year. Christina Gordon might make it as well. If so, there will be hides getting tanned all over!





I second the Frontier Festival event. You can learn a lot at this one.  Ben puts on a great Rondyvoo.


----------



## DvilleDawn

Nicodemus said:


> I second the Frontier Festival event. You can learn a lot at this one.  Ben puts on a great Rondyvoo.



Im totally down for this!  
As soon as the next one comes around, Im there! :cow:
Not only sounds informative, but sounds like tons of fun!


----------



## Bill Mc

Nicodemus said:


> I second the Frontier Festival event. You can learn a lot at this one.  Ben puts on a great Rondyvoo.



That's a great place to go. Now if Ben will arrange for a little warmer weather next time (20 degrees last time) it will be great.


----------



## Nicodemus

Bill Mc said:


> That's a great place to go. Now if Ben will arrange for a little warmer weather next time (20 degrees last time) it will be great.





Us tipi dwellers love the cold. 

I already have my supply of firewood settin` ready.


----------



## Bill Mc

An a reminder, the supply of hides will dry up January 1 in the northern zone and January 15 in the southern. 

End of deer season.


----------



## chehawknapper

Bill Mc - its  tuff to wear your best skins iffen its hot!


----------



## Trefer

chehawknapper said:


> Bill Mc - its  tuff to wear your best skins iffen its hot!



Bill turned out a mighty fine hide at the tanning class last month.  By the festival in January I expect him to show up in a full braintan outfit!  (pressure's on Bill!)


----------



## Bill Mc

I've got enough for a loin cloth


----------



## Nicodemus

Bill Mc said:


> I've got enough for a loin cloth




I`m wearin a loin cloth in my present avatar pic.


----------



## Trefer

Nicodemus said:


> I`m wearin a loin cloth in my present avatar pic.



I'm looking real close and it looks more like you're wearing the 'whole deer'  ...  ALIVE....

sorry, I couldn't resist!  Good pic though - and great looking outfit!


----------



## DvilleDawn

Ummm January? Seriously? 
Wow cold weather and I dont get along very well!!
Forget a tipi I will need a place to plug in my heated blanky! 
Please Please Please Pray for warm weather!! 

Bill all you have is enough for a loin cloth? Get busy man!


----------



## chehawknapper

We might get lucky and have one to skin and quarter using a couple of fresh flakes of flint. We will also show you how to remove ALL of the backstrap sinew with a bone knife while still on the carcass.


----------



## Nicodemus

chehawknapper said:


> We might get lucky and have one to skin and quarter using a couple of fresh flakes of flint. We will also show you how to remove ALL of the backstrap sinew with a bone knife while still on the carcass.




Ben, a stone and bone tool breakdown on a deer would be nice. I`ll get with you. We might can scratch up a fat doe.


----------



## Nicodemus

Trefer said:


> I'm looking real close and it looks more like you're wearing the 'whole deer'  ...  ALIVE....
> 
> sorry, I couldn't resist!  Good pic though - and great looking outfit!





Thanks Ritchie. That little doe is "Sugar". Ben and Karen raised her. She might still be around somewhere.


----------



## orphan

A loin cloth????????????  Certainly sounds interesting!  Probably need something more for January but every man is free to choose for himself, I guess!


----------



## chehawknapper

It will be ok, we will have firewood too!


----------



## DvilleDawn

Nicodemus said:


> Thanks Ritchie. That little doe is "Sugar". Ben and Karen raised her. She might still be around somewhere.



I would love to hear the story about how they came to raise this little doe. 
I thought maybe you were the deer whisperer.


----------



## chehawknapper

Because we lived on the park for 23 years, Karen and I became wildlife rehabbers working through the vets that handle the animals in the zoo. Over the years, and with full help from our daughters, we raised and released umpteen deer, raccoon, fox, coyote (this was before the State issued mandatory euthanization for potential rabies carrier species), beavers, squirrels, birds of many different species and I'm sure a few others I've forgotten.


----------



## DvilleDawn

chehawknapper said:


> Because we lived on the park for 23 years, Karen and I became wildlife rehabbers working through the vets that handle the animals in the zoo. Over the years, and with full help from our daughters, we raised and released umpteen deer, raccoon, fox, coyote (this was before the State issued mandatory euthanization for potential rabies carrier species), beavers, squirrels, birds of many different species and I'm sure a few others I've forgotten.



Thanks for sharing! How cool is that opportunity? 
I would love to spend my retirement being a rehabber! 

Granted, I know that when its times to release them it is absolutely heartbreaking for me, and I worry so much about them forever, but *shrug* so be it, such is life. I have just delt with this at times knowing that for me, "the day it becomes easy, thats the day that I probably need to re-evaluate my heart and/or goals". 

Its insane how much I love animals. I sit on my deck sometimes almost all night long under a heating blanket just to watch the critters and listen to the coyotes.    My Christmas wish list goes something like this.... trail cams, camera lenses, trail cams, night vision goggles, trail cams, binoculers, and oh did I meantion more trail cams!


----------



## BooneDavis

Looking to start doing my own hides but i want to keep the fur or hair on the hide (deer and coyote). how can i keep them soft and how do i keep them from smelling bad???


----------



## farmer

BooneDavis said:


> Looking to start doing my own hides but i want to keep the fur or hair on the hide (deer and coyote). how can i keep them soft and how do i keep them from smelling bad???


You need to dry or freeze them until you're ready to work them.  When working them, don't let them get too wet for too long or the hair will slip.

Here's a great article on doing furs:
http://www.braintan.com/articles/furs/george1.html

For the deer, it's pretty much the same, but you'll need to lace the skin up in a frame and work it with a stake.  Trappers trowels (D-handle is easiest to work with) are great for that, but an old axe handle with an edge will work, too.


----------



## DvilleDawn

I had put my hide in the freezer because I knew it was going to be 4 days before I could get to it, maybe longer since I've been fighting a horrible cold.  But I was able to get to it tonight sore throat and all. I defrosted it for a day, and here it is before and after fleshing it. As you can see from the pile of meat and fat in the second picture there was a lot of junk to get off. Now Im gonna go over it one more time and get it soaking in my solution. P.S. Yes I have the brain, its in the freezer.



BEFORE:







AFTER:


----------



## Trefer

*fleshing*

nice work!  keep us posted.


----------



## DvilleDawn

Of course I will keep you all updated!  
Have I ever been short for word on here ? :nono:


----------



## SELFBOW

I use two brains for one hide. You may need another or add some eggs to your blend.


----------



## DvilleDawn

buckbacks said:


> I use two brains for one hide. You may need another or add some eggs to your blend.



So you like eggs best when needing more?

Does seem that even though every deer is suppose to have enough brains to tan thier own hide, thats one small brain!! I figured if I wanted to brain it a couple of times I would have to use either eggs or hog brains, or something. I know there are tons of recepie's out there for good tanning softerners, including some commercial products.

Anyone else want to chime in on thier favorite backup braining solution?

I hate this soaking stage! Waiting is not one of my forte's! Keeping it stired is not a problem for me because it at the least still allows me to feel like Im getting something done!!


----------



## farmer

You can get by with 1/2 pound of brains per skin.  I like to use a pound or 2 and do 2 or 3 skins at a time.  I also put a cup or so of bear grease in with the brains.  And I almost always put an old smoky smoking skirt in the brain solution for a little while right after I mix it up.  The smoke makes the brains keep a lot longer than they normally would... especially helpful in warm weather when you brain 2 or 3 times.


----------



## farmer

Oh, and from my experience, I think deer brains work the best, although I'm afraid to use them now for fear of CWD.


----------



## DvilleDawn

farmer said:


> I also put a cup or so of bear grease in with the brains.



Bear grease? 



farmer said:


> Oh, and from my experience, I think deer brains work the best, although I'm afraid to use them now for fear of CWD.



I have a box of gloves.


----------



## farmer

DvilleDawn said:


> Bear grease?


Rendered bear fat.




DvilleDawn said:


> I have a box of gloves.


Well, softening a skin can put a lot of stress on gloves and on your hands.  It's not uncommon to develop blisters or to just rub some skin right off of your knuckles.  I got staff once from skins that should have been buried.  It landed me in the hospital and out of work for a few days... and skeered the dickens out of me.  Thankfully, I got through it and learned a lesson.  CWD only takes once and mad human disease sounds like a heck of a way to go.  I'm just not comfortable trusting a $.10 pair of gloves with my sanity and well-being if I don't have to.  Just my 2 cents, and to my knowledge, no one has contracted CWD from brain tanning... but then I think it generally takes 10 years or so for symptoms to show up and CWD hasn't been around all that long.


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## Trefer

farmer said:


> Rendered bear fat.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, softening a skin can put a lot of stress on gloves and on your hands.  It's not uncommon to develop blisters or to just rub some skin right off of your knuckles.  I got staff once from skins that should have been buried.  It landed me in the hospital and out of work for a few days... and skeered the dickens out of me.  Thankfully, I got through it and learned a lesson.  CWD only takes once and mad human disease sounds like a heck of a way to go.  I'm just not comfortable trusting a $.10 pair of gloves with my sanity and well-being if I don't have to.  Just my 2 cents, and to my knowledge, no one has contracted CWD from brain tanning... but then I think it generally takes 10 years or so for symptoms to show up and CWD hasn't been around all that long.



I had some concern about CWD a few years back but haven't really worried about it much lately.  Here are a couple of good links to articles about it from the GA DNR:
http://www.georgiawildlife.com/node/2372

and

http://www.georgiawildlife.com/node/323

Its been around since about '67, but actively tracked since the early '80's....not real close to Ga yet and seems to be more closely associated to animals kept in pens or deer farms.  I use pork brains mostly now, but do have few dozen deer brains frozen for future use.

I think a more serious concern, and one I stress in my classes, is the risk of infection from brains (raw meat product) if you have cuts or open wounds on your hands when fleshing or braining hides (the lye keeps the bucking solution pretty sterile - stinky, but sterile).  I will avoid this step, or wear gloves, if I have cuts.  (Unfortunately I can't do any knapping when I have hides to do -- I seem to take more 'flakes' off my fingers than I do the rock) 

I agree with farmer - I like to mix up a lb. of brain and do 2 or 3 hides in the one solution.  You can do one in a single deer brain, but you have to be real careful and not waste any while wringing....catch all the drippings in the bucket.  I'd suggest while learning to use more brain solution to make it a little easier.  
And bear grease was supposed to be a secret ingredient


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## farmer

Trefer said:


> Its been around since about '67, but actively tracked since the early '80's....not real close to Ga yet and seems to be more closely associated to animals kept in pens or deer farms.



I got scared when one of my N. GA processors told me he had butchered an elk from Colorado 6 or 7 years ago.  A few of the folks who worked for him had already taken bones home for their dogs when the test came back positive for CWD.  He "recalled" all the bones and buried them.  He thinks he got all of them.  And hopefully he did, but they're still buried somewhere in North Georgia. 



Trefer said:


> And bear grease was supposed to be a secret ingredient



Did I say bear grease?  I meant hair grease.


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## DvilleDawn

Fleshing: Check 
Bucking: Check 
Graining: Check 
Nutralizing: In progress 

Moving right along. 
Put the fur in the woods so that birds can use it for nesting.


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## Trefer

Now that is one clean looking hide right there!  Good job!


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## DvilleDawn

Thanks Trefer! Its getting there!
I cant wait to get it done!


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## DvilleDawn

YAY the Holidays are over and I am back at it again. 

I am currently braining and wringing out my hide. Hope to get it smoked some tomorrow. My hubby made me a indoor bar for wringing my hide on since its been so cold and raining every day.

Also I have my coon that I am working on. I will be leaving the fur on for this piece.





Hope you all had a GREAT CHRISTMAS and will have a safe and great NEW YEAR!!


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