# Red Dot?



## tgw925 (Mar 2, 2014)

I shoot an 870, any recommendations on a red dot that mounts on this gun? Always shot just a bead but thinking about upgrading. These Longbeard XR's just have too tight of a pattern for a bead


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## Jody Hawk (Mar 2, 2014)

I just bought a Burris Fastfire III and love it!


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## SCPO (Mar 2, 2014)

Jody Hawk said:


> I just bought a Burris Fastfire III and love it!



Jody
what mount did you use.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

Jody Hawk said:


> I just bought a Burris Fastfire III and love it!



I just bought one as well.


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## Killdee (Mar 2, 2014)

Have a Burris FF2 on my 20, I like the low profile mount so I used the Marlin 336 mount on mine, I have a Weaver type on my 12  and had to put a stock pad on to raise the comb to shoot comfortable.The 12 has a Mueller and its a good sight but way big IMO.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

I use the Burris 336 mount on all my red dots.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

I may get thrown under the bus for this, but I cannot personally justify paying for a Trijicon, Eotech, FF II or III etc for shooting at 20-40 yards where clarity and light gathering means diddly squat.. 

I have had a cheap Tru Glo 40 MM dot sight on my 20 gauge for 6 years it gets hunted 40 + days a year, it has endured hundreds of rounds, it has been crawled, dropped, thrown like javelin after misses multiple times etc It has been put through more abuse than any scope should ever have to endure and I have never had the POI change and the adjustments are true.. IF this thing gives up I would most likely purchase the exact same model.


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> I may get thrown under the bus for this, but I cannot personally justify paying for a Trijicon, Eotech, FF II or III etc for shooting at 20-40 yards where clarity and light gathering means diddly squat..
> 
> I have had a cheap Tru Glo 40 MM dot sight on my 20 gauge for 6 years it gets hunted 40 + days a year, it has endured hundreds of rounds, it has been crawled, dropped, thrown like javelin after misses multiple times etc It has been put through more abuse than any scope should ever have to endure and I have never had the POI change and the adjustments are true.. IF this thing gives up I would most likely purchase the exact same model.



hmmmm.....


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## Turkeydoghunter (Mar 2, 2014)

I heard too many horror stories about the battery going dead on those electronic scopes I use a Leupold 2x7 with the turkey Reticle they come with the light or no light- I -So If the battery dies you still have the crosshairs good luck on whatever you decide !


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

242outdoors said:


> hmmmm.....



Nope me not sight, never been shy about making it clear, thats my biggest weakness in the woods.. After Javelin tosses I always put up a target and re check POI.. 

Plus with the hundreds of rounds fired through this gun with reddot it has never shifted POI from shot to shot and am pretty fortunate regardless of Shell or choke the POI is almost identical..


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

Turkeydoghunter said:


> I heard too many horror stories about the battery going dead on those electronic scopes I use a Leupold 2x7 with the turkey Reticle they come with the light or no light- I -So If the battery dies you still have the crosshairs good luck on whatever you decide !



The batteries last a long time.  I'm on my 4th season on the same set in my Docters.  You can change them every 2 years if that's a worry.  Never known anyone personally or read of anyone having any problems. Common sense does go a long ways.  The FastFire 3 battery can be changed in about a minute with a penny.  Just keep a spare battery with you.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> I may get thrown under the bus for this, but I cannot personally justify paying for a Trijicon, Eotech, FF II or III etc for shooting at 20-40 yards where clarity and light gathering means diddly squat..
> 
> I have had a cheap Tru Glo 40 MM dot sight on my 20 gauge for 6 years it gets hunted 40 + days a year, it has endured hundreds of rounds, it has been crawled, dropped, thrown like javelin after misses multiple times etc It has been put through more abuse than any scope should ever have to endure and I have never had the POI change and the adjustments are true.. IF this thing gives up I would most likely purchase the exact same model.



Totally understandable.  I prefer the low profile, compact size and light weight of my set-ups.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> Totally understandable.  I prefer the low profile, compact size and light weight of my set-ups.




No doubt.. I have a knoxx on my 20 so the higher sight picture works out pretty well. 

My father had an FFL years ago when Doc optic was being bought out going under or whatever.. One wholesaler had those things closed out for next to nothing.. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bought a couple.. 

Not saying the above sights are not the creme of the crop, but not knowing what is in the OPs budget sometimes optic threads become heavily weighted towards the Burris, Trijicon, Leupold, Aimpoint etc leaving one to believe that there are not other options out there at a lower price point that work well.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> No doubt.. I have a knoxx on my 20 so the higher sight picture works out pretty well.



I have a brand new 870 20 ga. Blackhawk Knoxx and forearm waiting on a host.  Gonna build my kids a turkey gun.  Do they do a good job of taming the recoil?  Planning on having the barrel back bored as well hoping it may help with a little recoil as well.


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## Gator8em (Mar 2, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> I use the Burris 336 mount on all my red dots.



http://www.midwayusa.com/product/683290/burris-fastfire-base-marlin-336-444-1895-matte

Is this the one, do you think it will fit a Mossberg Mini Bantam?


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## Killdee (Mar 2, 2014)

I am not a top of the line $ guy either and that is how I ended up with the 90$ Mueller on the 1300. Again a great sight but dont like dealing with the high mounting and size of the low cost red dots. I lucked up and bought my FF2 right after the 3s came out, complete with a 336 mount and the warbird protector for $150 shipped. BTW I can still see my bead through my FF2 and while I have never had nor known  a person who had a battriey failure that cost them a bird, I still have the option to aim low should that ever happen. I change my battery every other year, no big deal.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

That's the one.  All mine have to have another hole added or 2 new holes if there where not drilled and tapped from the factory.  I know the 336 mount will fit an 835 without and modifications. Not sure about the Mini Bantam.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

Killdee said:


> I am not a top of the line $ guy either and that is how I ended up with the 90$ Mueller on the 1300. Again a great sight but dont like dealing with the high mounting and size of the low cost red dots. I lucked up and bought my FF2 right after the 3s came out, complete with a 336 mount and the warbird protector for $150 shipped. BTW I can still see my bead through my FF2 and while I have never had nor known  a person who had a battriey failure that cost them a bird, I still have the option to aim low should that ever happen. I change my battery every other year, no big deal.



I got my FF3 for $200 shipped.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> I have a brand new 870 20 ga. Blackhawk Knoxx and forearm waiting on a host.  Gonna build my kids a turkey gun.  Do they do a good job of taming the recoil?  Planning on having the barrel back bored as well hoping it may help with a little recoil as well.



OMG Yes.. I have the non recoil reducing one.. The first year my girlfriend went from a 12 to a 20 her little 20 had a birch standard stock.. 

Shooting the Federal 1.5 HW 7s which IMO are pretty stout for a 20 gauge loading the difference in recoil even with the non reducing Knoxx was night and day.. The fact that recoil was displaced in 2 places makes a huge difference and the recoil reducing version would only tame it more.


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## rhbama3 (Mar 2, 2014)

Good thread.
This is my first year in tri-focal progressive eyeglasses and i had to concentrate way too hard when patterning the other day.  
Focus on fiberoptic sights- target blurs
Focus on target- sights blur 
Really looking hard at a Burris FF3. I had a scope with turkey reticle a few seasons ago and occasionally, the concussion of firing a 3.5 inch turkey load would knock it off zero.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> OMG Yes.. I have the non recoil reducing one.. The first year my girlfriend went from a 12 to a 20 her little 20 had a birch standard stock..
> 
> Shooting the Federal 1.5 HW 7s which IMO are pretty stout for a 20 gauge loading the difference in recoil even with the non reducing Knoxx was night and day.. The fact that recoil was displaced in 2 places makes a huge difference and the recoil reducing version would only tame it more.



That's good to hear.  I'd like for them to shoot the 3" but we'll see how they are doing at that point.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

rhbama3 said:


> Good thread.
> This is my first year in tri-focal progressive eyeglasses and i had to concentrate way too hard when patterning the other day.
> Focus on fiberoptic sights- target blurs
> Focus on target- sights blur
> Really looking hard at a Burris FF3. I had a scope with turkey reticle a few seasons ago and occasionally, the concussion of firing a 3.5 inch turkey load would knock it off zero.



Go ahead and get it. Only thing you'll regret is not getting one sooner.


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

What do y'all recommend for a mossberg 835 with a 24 inch barrel? I have the end bb sight and a smaller one halfway down the rib. Def don't want to spend a ton of money but want something that can handle 3.5" shells and not knock it out of sight.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

242outdoors said:


> What do y'all recommend for a mossberg 835 with a 24 inch barrel? I have the end bb sight and a smaller one halfway down the rib. Def don't want to spend a ton of money but want something that can handle 3.5" shells and not knock it out of sight.



One reddot I have not owned but have a handful of buddies that have had it and some on 835s and it handles the recoil well and IMO is very well built dot sight that is not going to break the bank is the Bushnell Trophy 1x28..


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> One reddot I have not owned but have a handful of buddies that have had it and some on 835s and it handles the recoil well and IMO is very well built dot sight that is not going to break the bank is the Bushnell Trophy 1x28..



Thanks. That compnchoke throws such a tight pattern it makes me nervous. Haha.


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

Well I'm a big TruGlo red/grn dot sight fan.  I have one and love it.  But if I were going to buy another dot sight for the money it would be the new Weaver Micro Dot sight.  It's under $70 at Walmart online.


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## Killdee (Mar 2, 2014)

If that weaver is as small as it looks it should be a good seller.


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 2, 2014)

tgw925 said:


> I shoot an 870, any recommendations on a red dot that mounts on this gun? Always shot just a bead but thinking about upgrading. These Longbeard XR's just have too tight of a pattern for a bead



Try the Truglo that has the integrated saddle for the Remington...I am going on 3 years with mine and nary a problem.

Gobble Stopper may be the name....it is very easy to mount...just push the trigger pins out, put the sight on and replace the trigger pins with the ones that come with the sight.  Has a green or red dot, I use the green in the low light and the red in the bright sunshine.

Good luck!!


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

Killdee said:


> If that weaver is as small as it looks it should be a good seller.



That Weaver is micro tiny.  Go look at one.  It simply floored me for the money.


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

This will sort of tell you just how small the Weaver Micro Dot is if you look at it in the package and compare it to the screwdriver.


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> This will sort of tell you just how small the Weaver Micro Dot is if you look at it in the package and compare it to the screwdriver.



Will that mount on an 835 without anything special??


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## Hawken2222 (Mar 2, 2014)

mossyoakpro said:


> Try the Truglo that has the integrated saddle for the Remington...I am going on 3 years with mine and nary a problem.
> 
> Gobble Stopper may be the name....it is very easy to mount...just push the trigger pins out, put the sight on and replace the trigger pins with the ones that come with the sight.  Has a green or red dot, I use the green in the low light and the red in the bright sunshine.
> 
> Good luck!!


X2 I have this same set up on my 870 and it's been awesome. Going on my 5th season with this scope and mount combo with zero problems


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

Do the truglo red dots come with something to mount them to an 835 shotgun? I have looked at some online but I don't know about mounting one.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

242outdoors said:


> Do the truglo red dots come with something to mount them to an 835 shotgun? I have looked at some online but I don't know about mounting one.



I do not think so only 870.. I know folks claim they are junk as well but I love it and that is the B Square type mount.. The B Square has been the result of a few dead gobblers I would have never killed otherwise when hunting in the rain and the red dot lens is all covered in water.. I simply look under the mount and use my bead.. 

My 870 gets beat to death and I have only torn it down 2-3 time over the years but I wash shocked removing the Saddle mount and remounting my POI did not shift.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad that Weaver is sweet I wonder the details of it, will research for sure with that price and Weaver.. Sal has the Tru Brite sight you love and I am not completely sold on that thing after 2 seasons and may replace it.


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## Gaswamp (Mar 2, 2014)

There is a long review of the Weaver (4pgs) on old gobbler


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> Brad that Weaver is sweet I wonder the details of it, will research for sure with that price and Weaver.. Sal has the Tru Brite sight you love and I am not completely sold on that thing after 2 seasons and may replace it.



Tom,

I don't know all the details of it.  But I turned it on and looked it over real good at Walmart.  Looks to be pure quality.  If it holds its zero and adjust out well, this thing will sell.

They wanted $87.96 at my Walmart.

My TruGlo holds its zero and has yet to shift any.  The only drawback over it vs the Weaver is the height.  The Weaver sits real low.


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## Killdee (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> That Weaver is micro tiny.  Go look at one.  It simply floored me for the money.



It looks like in size compared to a ff2, if its up to snuff quality wise it will sell very well.


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## tgw925 (Mar 2, 2014)

Thanks for the post! I feel like we have met before? Maybe through Roger Petty. 


mossyoakpro said:


> Try the Truglo that has the integrated saddle for the Remington...I am going on 3 years with mine and nary a problem.
> 
> Gobble Stopper may be the name....it is very easy to mount...just push the trigger pins out, put the sight on and replace the trigger pins with the ones that come with the sight.  Has a green or red dot, I use the green in the low light and the red in the bright sunshine.
> 
> Good luck!!


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

I think the Weaver with the mount weighs less than 2oz.


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

Product Information
 The Weaver Micro Dot is the perfect sighting system for mounting on AR platforms as a primary or secondary sight and easily mounts to shotguns or pistols with weaver or picatinny-style bases. The unlimited eye relief makes it perfect for shooting in awkward positions and the adjustable illumination setting lets shooters customize the intensity for varying lighting situations. This compact unit will make you quicker on target and make your day at the range more enjoyable for new and experienced shooters alike. The Micro Dot includes a rugged plactic hood to keep your lenses free of scratches and dust during transport. 

Technical Information 
•Style: Reflex
•Magnification: 1x
•Sight Window: N/A
•Adjustment value @ 100 yards(clicks/in): N/A
•Reticle: 4 MOA Dot
•Reticle color: Red
•Housing material: Aluminum
•Recoil resistance: N/A
•Battery Type: CR2032 3V Lithium (1) included
•Length: 1.9"
•Weight: 2.8 oz.
•Warranty: Limited Lifetime


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## Gaswamp (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> I think the Weaver with the mount weighs less than 2oz.



Weaver right at 2
Burris right at 1.7


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## Turkeydoghunter (Mar 2, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> The batteries last a long time.  I'm on my 4th season on the same set in my Docters.  You can change them every 2 years if that's a worry.  Never known anyone personally or read of anyone having any problems. Common sense does go a long ways.  The FastFire 3 battery can be changed in about a minute with a penny.  Just keep a spare battery with you.


I was just watching the Outdoor Channel a guy was calling in the turkey with that same Sight You Have and the battery was dead so he took a penny and took the sight right off the gun and shot it with the bead I would not only carry an extra battery but I would also check my Sight  every time before hunt I know a few guys that use that Sight they really do like them !


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## Turkeydoghunter (Mar 2, 2014)

rhbama3 said:


> Good thread.
> This is my first year in tri-focal progressive eyeglasses and i had to concentrate way too hard when patterning the other day.
> Focus on fiberoptic sights- target blurs
> Focus on target- sights blur
> Really looking hard at a Burris FF3. I had a scope with turkey reticle a few seasons ago and occasionally, the concussion of firing a 3.5 inch turkey load would knock it off zero.


 that's why I went to a scope I shoot a three and a half inch shell also but that won't happen with the Leupold scope a buddy of mine has the Burris he really likes it he also had the battery go dead so Carry extras !


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

If I bought a scope for a 835 what mount would I have to buy to put it on my shotgun??


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> Tom,
> 
> I don't know all the details of it.  But I turned it on and looked it over real good at Walmart.  Looks to be pure quality.  If it holds its zero and adjust out well, this thing will sell.
> 
> ...


Her trubrite I am still on the fence on holding POI that gun.. I cannot say I am 100 percent confident but last year helped.. 

One other thing is the adjustment.. Whether its just me or not but the allen wrench style adjustments both mine take 2 different sizes.. Luckily for one I have drawers and drawers of allen wrenches and I found some weird star thing that fits one but will not fit the other.. 


Brad C. said:


> Product Information
> The Weaver Micro Dot is the perfect sighting system for mounting on AR platforms as a primary or secondary sight and easily mounts to shotguns or pistols with weaver or picatinny-style bases. The unlimited eye relief makes it perfect for shooting in awkward positions and the adjustable illumination setting lets shooters customize the intensity for varying lighting situations. This compact unit will make you quicker on target and make your day at the range more enjoyable for new and experienced shooters alike. The Micro Dot includes a rugged plactic hood to keep your lenses free of scratches and dust during transport.
> 
> Technical Information
> ...



Thank you sounds like the deal..


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 2, 2014)

tgw925 said:


> Thanks for the post! I feel like we have met before? Maybe through Roger Petty.



Probably so....no telling where.  Roger gets around


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## Garnto88 (Mar 2, 2014)

Red dot scopes?   Turkey hunting has gotten very technical.   I use that bead on the end of my shotgun and keep my head down.


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 2, 2014)

242outdoors said:


> If I bought a scope for a 835 what mount would I have to buy to put it on my shotgun??



Check Midway for a saddle mount...it looks kinda funky but it works great.

I thought the Mossy's came drilled & tapped?  If so just get a picatinney rail and mount it up.


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## tgw925 (Mar 3, 2014)

Lol ya I ran into him twice at the NWTF. Might have met you at a Wounded Warriors outing. Also, is this the red-dot you shoot and recommended? http://www.basspro.com/TruGlo-RedDot-Scope-with-Remington-870-Mount/product/10200327/


mossyoakpro said:


> Probably so....no telling where.  Roger gets around


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 3, 2014)

tgw925 said:


> Lol ya I ran into him twice at the NWTF. Might have met you at a Wounded Warriors outing. Also, is this the red-dot you shoot and recommended? http://www.basspro.com/TruGlo-RedDot-Scope-with-Remington-870-Mount/product/10200327/



That's it!!  You will really like it....no modifications have to be done to your gun or anything.  The battery life is unreal but I keep a spare in my vest just in case.


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## amc5 (Mar 5, 2014)

anyone got a easy way to sight one? I have a new one I am thinking of putting on. Guess just shoot and adjust to like 40 yards?


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 5, 2014)

amc5 said:


> anyone got a easy way to sight one? I have a new one I am thinking of putting on. Guess just shoot and adjust to like 40 yards?



Sight it in just like a bow....follow your shot.  Best way is to lock the gun into a vise or lead sled and shoot it at 10 yards.  It will make one single hole....then lock the gun down so it will not move and put the dot on the place that you aimed at and move it to where the shot hit.  After a couple of shots you should have it taken care of.....then move your target to the desired range (30-40 yds) and shoot another field load...then see where the bulk of the pattern hit....and adjust again same as before....then it is time to put your hunting load in for confirmation, I usually have to make a small adjustment with it and then usually only have to fire one more expensive shell after that.

Remember to bore snake or clean your barrel every few shots....once you get it dialed in you can then find out if your gun likes a fouled bore or a clean bore by shooting some of those field loads to foul it then shoot your hunting load to see if the pattern improves or goes down the toilet.  I am fortunate that my gun likes a dirty barrel so I usually do not clean it during the season unless it gets rained on and wet.

Best of luck!!!


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## Pneumothorax (Mar 6, 2014)

amc5 said:


> anyone got a easy way to sight one? I have a new one I am thinking of putting on. Guess just shoot and adjust to like 40 yards?



I just got a FF2 to try this season.  I used mossyoakpro's technique with one additional step before I even left the house.  My gun already had front and rear fiber sights on it.  I secured my gun so it wouldn't move and aimed it at a dot on the other side of the basement.  Then I attached the FF2 and adjusted it to also point to that dot.  Got me real close on my first shot at paper.


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## Brad C. (Mar 6, 2014)

amc5 said:


> anyone got a easy way to sight one? I have a new one I am thinking of putting on. Guess just shoot and adjust to like 40 yards?



Just shoot some cheap light dove loads through it at like 20yds and get it about deadnut.  It will be very close at 40yds then.  Try some more cheap dove loads at 40yds and once zeroed, your turkey loads should be very close to the same point of impact.  You will just have to do the final tweaking in to make them perfect.


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## Pound4Pound (Mar 6, 2014)

Aimpoint Comp M2 on a GG&G cantilever mount.  Get some!!!!!!!!!!


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## amc5 (Mar 6, 2014)

Pneumothorax said:


> I just got a FF2 to try this season.  I used mossyoakpro's technique with one additional step before I even left the house.  My gun already had front and rear fiber sights on it.  I secured my gun so it wouldn't move and aimed it at a dot on the other side of the basement.  Then I attached the FF2 and adjusted it to also point to that dot.  Got me real close on my first shot at paper.





Brad C. said:


> Just shoot some cheap light dove loads through it at like 20yds and get it about deadnut.  It will be very close at 40yds then.  Try some more cheap dove loads at 40yds and once zeroed, your turkey loads should be very close to the same point of impact.  You will just have to do the final tweaking in to make them perfect.




Excellent information guys. Thank you very much!!


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## Brad C. (Mar 6, 2014)

Most are set pretty close anyways to where you hit on cardboard at 20yds.  But you can point your barrel at what you think is about centered at 20yds and then look through your dot sight to check it prior to shooting.


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## gentrygill (May 8, 2014)

Does anyone know if the weaver micro dot will work with the 336 base?


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## Killdee (May 8, 2014)

gentrygill said:


> Does anyone know if the weaver micro dot will work with the 336 base?



 I just bought 1 from a member at OG and he said it would fit the 336, I'm thinking it will lower the site 3/16-1/4" lower than a weaver rail.Looking at my FF2 on a 336 and the screw pattern looks the same on the weaver. I can let you know for sure after the 15th.


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## gentrygill (May 9, 2014)

Please do!


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## Killdee (May 18, 2014)

OK the weaver will fit the screw hole pattern on the 336 but all the mounting pins wont. The 336 has 4 pins the weaver 3, the 2 rear pins line up and fit. I think this can easily be remedied by grinding off the two front pins on the 336 to allow the weaver to sit flat in the front.
Pic 1 is the weaver on its factory mount and rail in front of a FFII on the 336
Pic 2 is the weaver on the 336 showing the raised front where the pins wont align.

I will ask William at Sumtoy his advice but I think I will modify the 336 rather than use the high weaver mount. I cant stand a high mounted scope or reddot on a shotgun or a rifle.


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## GLS (May 19, 2014)

mossyoakpro said:


> Sight it in just like a bow....follow your shot.  Best way is to lock the gun into a vise or lead sled and shoot it at 10 yards.
> 
> Best of luck!!!



I use the same basic technique, but use a chamber laser collimator for 12 and 20 gauges.  They are 15 bux on Ebay.  I get the shot on paper with it, adjust accordingly, and then use dove loads at 20 yards.  After confirming with a the turkey round at 40, I use the collimator one more time to see where the laser dot falls at 20 and 40 yards in relation to the red dot of the sight.  I mark both on paper, photograph and store in gmail.  If I have any question later about zero holding issues, I set up the gun and paper at 40 yards and see if both dots line up the same as in the photo.  Sometimes it's difficult seeing the laser dot, but at 20 yards it's clearer.  The collimator needs to be placed in the chamber in the same orientation each time.  With a Sharpie, I mark 12 o'clock on the collimator and insert in chamber accordingly.   I don't have a lead sled but use a Workmate instead.


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