# Thank you for your time



## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

I know this is another forum, so please forgive me for posting here and I am not trying to offend anyone. I want to make that perfectly clear. I think I can post here and be respectful and hopfully care ful not to post anything that people take the wrong way. With that being said, I just wanted to ask a serious question, and again, not to insult, degrade, or anger anyone, these are not my intentions.

I know many of you will not believe me for what I am going to say, and thats fine. I am not doing this to provoke anyone, or say " Your Wrong,"please undestand this, I truly believe I am supposed to be posting here for someone today.

I am not a prophet, I am not a perfect christian that has all the answers. I am a 43 year old father of three, that has been given another chance by the Grace of God, so I am just asking this. What if there is a Jesus? What if your beliefs are wrong? What can you do when you are standing right in front of the God you never believed in?
I honestly do care about you guys, you can take shots at me and poke fun at me all day, thats fine. But what if? If I am wrong I lose nothing, but if you are wrong you lose everything. Please take the time thats all I am asking, just ponder on the thought "what if I am wrong?"

Someone on this post needed to hear this, maybe everyone I don't know, but please really think about it, and I asking please from the bottom of my heart.

Let me thank you for letting me post here, and thank you for taking the time to read my post. I think I have been respectful and not out of line with anything that I have said today. And in return, I ask the same of you. I will offer this to any of you, if you would like, you can send me a pm anytime you like.

I pray today that the person on this forum will take the time and search for what I believe is the truth.  Thank you all very much, and agin sorry if I insulted or angered anyone, that is not my intention. Tom


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## earl (Oct 2, 2010)

IMO for your question to be honest , you would have to ask the same of every deity ,past ,present , and future.  You cannot possibly cover every base. And to believe in a deity just to cover your backside is dishonest . Again IMHO.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank you Sir for your response. I appreciate your respectful answer. I was only trying to get you to think about it. Once again thank you for being respectful. Thank you Tom


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

tomtlb66 said:


> I know this is another forum, so please forgive me for posting here and I am not trying to offend anyone. I want to make that perfectly clear. I think I can post here and be respectful and hopfully care ful not to post anything that people take the wrong way. With that being said, I just wanted to ask a serious question, and again, not to insult, degrade, or anger anyone, these are not my intentions.
> 
> I know many of you will not believe me for what I am going to say, and thats fine. I am not doing this to provoke anyone, or say " Your Wrong,"please undestand this, I truly believe I am supposed to be posting here for someone today.
> 
> ...



If you're wrong you might end up in Samsara or in the He11 of the Muslims.  Why don't you please give that the deepest consideration.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

I have, I have considered it.  All I am asking is that you consider it thats all. I am not judging anyone here, I think this is a question that everyone needs to think about, including me. Thats all I am saying and again I am just saying this out of love for everyone. Thats all, no judging in anyway here by me. I want that to be perfectly clear. I don't think I was pointing a finger at anyone so please don't take it that way. Thank you


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 2, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> If you're wrong you might end up in Samsara or in the He11 of the Muslims.  Why don't you please give that the deepest consideration.



Ambush, I took his meaning to be referring to atheism as compared to believing in the Christian God. 

Of course, using your example, If I'm wrong (which I'm not ) I suppose I would end up in some other place. 

I expect devout atheists feel the same way.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

Guys, I am not trying to make any of you angry here. I have thought about where I will spend an eternity, I have weighed out so many different things in this area. I am just trying to get you to honestly think about it. Thats all.

I do feel in my heart and forgive me if I am wrong, that I was supposed to post this. I am not here to judge anyone, I have put that much emphasis on that. I am not the one who judges anyone but myself. I am not saying I am better than anyone on this forum.

I am simply doing this out of love, not my love but a greater love that lives in me. I am a man that has made more mistakes than anyone I know, but I try to live the best life that I can live by my faith. Its a question that everyone has to deal with, we will all die,we can agree on that. I am asking you to think about it, thats all. I think we can all do that and be nice about our responses thats all. Tom


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> Ambush, I took his meaning to be referring to atheism as compared to believing in the Christian God.
> 
> Of course, using your example, If I'm wrong (which I'm not ) I suppose I would end up in some other place.
> 
> I expect devout atheists feel the same way.



I tend to think he would consider someone to be equally lost and condemned, were they a Hindu or an atheist.  Why aren't you worried that you might be wrong?  Honestly?



tomtlb66 said:


> Guys, I am not trying to make any of you angry here. I have thought about where I will spend an eternity, I have weighed out so many different things in this area. I am just trying to get you to honestly think about it. Thats all.
> 
> I do feel in my heart and forgive me if I am wrong, that I was supposed to post this. I am not here to judge anyone, I have put that much emphasis on that. I am not the one who judges anyone but myself. I am not saying I am better than anyone on this forum.
> 
> I am simply doing this out of love, not my love but a greater love that lives in me. I am a man that has made more mistakes than anyone I know, but I try to live the best life that I can live by my faith. Its a question that everyone has to deal with, we will all die,we can agree on that. I am asking you to think about it, thats all. I think we can all do that and be nice about our responses thats all. Tom



I feel the "love" from the Jehovas witnesses when they knock on the door, I really do.  I just don't want what they're offering.  I read the Pamphlet already.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

Thats fine, that is your decision. Do you understand though why I do this? Again, its just me o.k.? Believe me, I have no intent on judging anyone. I feel I have to do this, thats all. Thank you again for being respectful and kind. I do appreciate it.


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

tomtlb66 said:


> Thats fine, that is your decision. Do you understand though why I do this? Again, its just me o.k.? Believe me, I have no intent on judging anyone. I feel I have to do this, thats all. Thank you again for being respectful and kind. I do appreciate it.



Yes.  I understand why you feel that you have to do this.  I ask you:  What do you make of the Jehovas Witnesses and their calling?  Understand that I view you no differently than them.


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## Inthegarge (Oct 2, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Yes.  I understand why you feel that you have to do this.  I ask you:  What do you make of the Jehovas Witnesses and their calling?  Understand that I view you no differently than them.



Well, let see.. the JW is doing what they are doing hoping to earn a place in Heaven. A Christian is/should be doing it because they care are about another person and their eternal future.....


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## CAL (Oct 2, 2010)

Mr.ambush,I think if you will research what the Jehovas Witnesses believe and teach,you will find much is directly contradicting what the bible says.This was my findings in reading the Watchtower.I was at one time subscribing to it till I found this out.I can't quite put my finger on the particular example because it was a long time ago.I do know the people that come around can't be members till they get people to come to the church and want to join.This is what I understand.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Yes.  I understand why you feel that you have to do this.  I ask you:  What do you make of the Jehovas Witnesses and their calling?  Understand that I view you no differently than them.



I am not to familiar with their beliefs, so I cannot answer that honestly. If someone is doing something for their own benefit or for a church membership, I am not for that. I am not trying to get you to join my church, I would love for you to visit there, thats not what I am doing this for. I am doing this because I feel compelled to by God, not by man or a building or to win your approval of me. I would rather see in you in Heaven and not give a hoot about me then a place that I believe no one wants to go. I said that in all due respect and I am not saying your going to hades, so don't read anything into that please.


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

CAL said:


> Mr.ambush,I think if you will research what the Jehovas Witnesses believe and teach,you will find much is directly contradicting what the bible says.This was my findings in reading the Watchtower.I was at one time subscribing to it till I found this out.I can't quite put my finger on the particular example because it was a long time ago.I do know the people that come around can't be members till they get people to come to the church and want to join.This is what I understand.



And you will find that the Bible contradicts some Zen Buddhist principles.  You don't get it.  You think that you are right and they are wrong.  I think that you all are wrong.



tomtlb66 said:


> I am not to familiar with their beliefs, so I cannot answer that honestly. If someone is doing something for their own benefit or for a church membership, I am not for that. I am not trying to get you to join my church, I would love for you to visit there, thats not what I am doing this for. I am doing this because I feel compelled to by God, not by man or a building or to win your approval of me. I would rather see in you in Heaven and not give a hoot about me then a place that I believe no one wants to go. I said that in all due respect and I am not saying your going to hades, so don't read anything into that please.



With all due respect, and I don't know how to put this more plainly or simply, I think that you are compelled by your indoctrinated psyche.

Furthermore, you don't have to say that I'm going to He11.  It's implied by my disbelief in your doctrine.  Good thing for me I don't believe in He11, or else I might be worried.


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 2, 2010)

Ok, thats your belief and I understand that. As far as being compelled by my indoctrined psyche, well again thats your belief. Just as I have mine. I do believe with all my heart that Jesus is real. I talk to Him all the time and believe it or not He talks to me. Now you might still think thats my psyche and all, again thats fine.

But if we can take this a little further. In a world that is pretty much self centered, why would I go to great extents to post anything that could not benefit me in anyway at all. What do I have to gain by " converting" you into believing something that I believe? Just to say I'm right and your wrong? I am saying this for everyones benefit, I have nothing to gain as far as this world is concerned. My psyche doesn't need to be caressed or accepted, correct? So why would I do it, whats in it for me? Again, as far as the world goes, I gain nothing. Correct?

There is a higher purpose and thats why I do it. I say everything out of love and respect, never to judge or degrade or offend. I will never do that and if I ever come across that way, please forgive me.

With that being said, I again would like to thank each and everyone who has posted here. You all have been very courteous and respectful. Even with my misspelling words. I will continue to pray for you, and I will always be open to any comments or any pm you would like to send me. I know God is real and He really does love you and wants to know you. Thank you for your posts, God bless.


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## pnome (Oct 6, 2010)

tomtlb66 said:


> I know this is another forum, so please forgive me for posting here and I am not trying to offend anyone.



You're welcome to come and pose Pascal's Wager all you want here as far as I'm concerned.  Your pleasant demeanor  is appreciated.

Myself, I go for what's called the "Atheist's wager"


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## VisionCasting (Oct 6, 2010)

pnome said:


> Myself, I go for what's called the "Atheist's wager"



The "benevolent God" matrix is inconsistent with the most basic Christian tenant.  The intersection of "Belief" and "Evil life" is not eternal he!!, but eternal life in Heaven.  

I don't mean this as a , but you really should understand the opposing argument rather than blindly accepting Wiki as inerrant.  

Recast the matrix and run the analysis.  The conclusion "Given these values, the option to live a good life (L) clearly dominates the option of living an evil life (~L), regardless of belief in a god (B or ~B)." falls apart, thus the entire Atheist's Wager is moot.


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## Gabassmaster (Oct 6, 2010)

Amen tom you tell em


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