# Permethrin ratio?



## turkeyslaya (Feb 11, 2013)

Hey guys, a year or two ago, I think I remember seeing a thread on here with the instructions and warnings for the mixing of permethrin 10% for ticks. I failed to bookmark it, so I did a search, and couldn't find it. (probably just overlooking it) I'm using Martins Permethrin 10%, does anybody have the permethrin/water ratio, or link to old thread? Thanks in advance guys and Happy Hunting!


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## ssiredfish (Feb 11, 2013)

Not sure for human use but typical ratio is usually 3oz/gal....You can alao use garden and livestock dust on your clothing as well.
If its to spray the yard, house, etc, skip the nonsense and use HiYeilds 38 plus (its like a frag round for bugs)


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## Hookspur (Feb 11, 2013)

Go to the HuntingPA.com turkey hunting forum page, where they've got all the ratio's posted in a sticky thread titled, "The Magic Tick Potion."


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## turkeyslaya (Feb 11, 2013)

ssiredfish said:


> Not sure for human use but typical ratio is usually 3oz/gal....You can alao use garden and livestock dust on your clothing as well.
> If its to spray the yard, house, etc, skip the nonsense and use HiYeilds 38 plus (its like a frag round for bugs)



Thx, it is for my clothing for this upcoming turkey season. Got some of the 38%, but it is just for the yards!


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## turkeyslaya (Feb 11, 2013)

Hookspur said:


> Go to the HuntingPA.com turkey hunting forum page, where they've got all the ratio's posted in a sticky thread titled, "The Magic Tick Potion."



Thx, I will check that out.


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## MackUSCG (Feb 11, 2013)

Sawyers Tick Spray.  No mixing just spray and let dry.  Started using this stuff when I was stationed in MA (The communistwealth) and the tick capital of the USA.  Never had one get on me after I started using it.  Up there if you dont use it you can walk 100 yards and have 4-5 on you.  This stuff works awesome.  Just make sure you use gloves when spraying it. As soon as it dries it is safe for humans.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...cted-ticks-are-in-northeast-northern-midwest/


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## Killdee (Feb 12, 2013)

MackUSCG said:


> Sawyers Tick Spray.  No mixing just spray and let dry.  Started using this stuff when I was stationed in MA (The communistwealth) and the tick capital of the USA.  Never had one get on me after I started using it.  Up there if you dont use it you can walk 100 yards and have 4-5 on you.  This stuff works awesome.  Just make sure you use gloves when spraying it. As soon as it dries it is safe for humans.
> 
> http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...cted-ticks-are-in-northeast-northern-midwest/



The point in mixing your own is you have the same thing as Saywers at 1-10th of the price. I have the formula somewhere, I think its 20 -1 but let me verify first. This is for the 10% Tractor supply product.


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## MackUSCG (Feb 12, 2013)

Oh ok, I thought y'all were trying different blends of stuff to adjust the %age of strength, my bad.  I'm going to look into what y'all are saying because I have a ton of clothes to do with me and the boy hunting.


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## Killdee (Feb 12, 2013)

Yeah I will save you $ with Sawyer being 10$ for a bottle that does 3 sets of clothes. I think I paid 6.99 for a 6oz bottle at TS that will make 12 bottles of Sawyer size bottles.


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## MackUSCG (Feb 12, 2013)

Killdee said:


> Yeah I will save you $ with Sawyer being 10$ for a bottle that does 3 sets of clothes. I think I paid 6.99 for a 6oz bottle at TS that will make 12 bottles of Sawyer size bottles.



Yep, gonna look into this.  Thanks for the info.


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## Hookspur (Feb 12, 2013)

I mixed my own last year, and never saw the first tick in 59 days of hunting.


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## Hoyt (Feb 13, 2013)

1oz 10% Permethrin
15oz Water

That's how I mix mine..never have to fool with ticks with this mixture.


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## Bowtechfella (Feb 14, 2013)

what about redbugs? does it work with them too?


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## Hooty Hoot (Feb 14, 2013)

20-1 works fine.


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## turkeyslaya (Feb 14, 2013)

Hoyt said:


> 1oz 10% Permethrin
> 15oz Water
> 
> That's how I mix mine..never have to fool with ticks with this mixture.



This is the ratio that I came up with from another site. Come to think of it, it is the same one I used last year. It is now written on my spray bottle in red sharpie. Thx Hoyt and Happy Hunting!


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## Killdee (Feb 14, 2013)

Bowtechfella said:


> what about redbugs? does it work with them too?



Yes, I still take apple cider vinegar tablets or a swaller from the bottle during turkey season in case a tick or chigger lands on my exposed skin.

Remember this stuff go's on your clothes and boots and let it dry, not on your skin.


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## Nannyman (Feb 14, 2013)

ssiredfish said:


> Not sure for human use but typical ratio is usually 3oz/gal....You can alao use garden and livestock dust on your clothing as well.
> If its to spray the yard, house, etc, skip the nonsense and use HiYeilds 38 plus (its like a frag round for bugs)



NEVER EVER use any powder or dust on you or your clothes. Inhaled is the most dangerous exposure you can get.
 Please do not make such dangerous recommendations. If you choose to dumb things, you should not recommend those actions to others.

John


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## Zombie woof (Mar 10, 2015)

Sawyers Permethrin = 0.5% 

1oz 10% Permethrin : 15oz Water = 0.667%
1oz 10% Permethrin : 20oz Water = 0.5%

I personally mix to 0.667% and haven't any issues, but want to present the math.


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## Zombie woof (Mar 10, 2015)

Bowtechfella said:


> what about redbugs? does it work with them too?



It works for all insects, including red bugs, in my experience. 

Skeeters don't want any part of it either and won't stay on treated portion of clothes, but I still carry my thermacell to keep them from swarming around me (and finding / biting the one exposed area of skin!).


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## Zombie woof (Mar 10, 2015)

Killdee said:


> Yeah I will save you $ with Sawyer being 10$ for a bottle that does 3 sets of clothes. I think I paid 6.99 for a 6oz bottle at TS that will make 12 bottles of Sawyer size bottles.




^^^ This 

You will save lots of money. One 16oz bottle of Martins 10% permethrin cost $14 shipped + $2 16oz sprayer will manufacture 256 oz of permethrin solution. All in, you can have 21x the amount for about the same price as one bottle of 12oz. Sawyers.


Sawyers (Pre-Mixed Solution)- 12oz - $17 shipped:
http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-Products-Permethrin-Clothing-Repellent/dp/B00MA950E0

Martin's 10% Permethrin - 1 Pint (16oz) - $14 shipped:
http://www.amazon.com/Martins-Permethrin-10-1-pint/dp/B002TMB4DE/ref=pd_sbs_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NY3G6W04HX1C1HQVKPZ


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 10, 2015)

Zombie woof said:


> Sawyers Permethrin = 0.5%
> 
> 1oz 10% Permethrin : 15oz Water = 0.667%
> 1oz 10% Permethrin : 20oz Water = 0.5%
> ...



This is what I do. It's just easier to measure for a 16 oz bottle.


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## mose (Mar 11, 2015)

Excuse me if this is a stupid question, But why not just use some Off or Repel with Deet?


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## gregg (Mar 11, 2015)

mose said:


> Excuse me if this is a stupid question, But why not just use some Off or Repel with Deet?



And another question....what happens if after the permethrin dries and is supposedly safe, your pants/boots get wet from dew and you touch them getting your boots off....now it is on your skin and one step away from mouth/eyes/food/etc...Is it still safe after rewetting?


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## Zombie woof (Mar 11, 2015)

mose said:


> Excuse me if this is a stupid question, But why not just use some Off or Repel with Deet?



That's a good question. Simply put, you only have to apply permethrin to clothes every six weeks vs. every time you step into the woods with deet. Also, I've found permethrin way more effective than deet. 

Here's a more comprehensive comparison: 

Pros and Cons:
 •DEET needs to be applied regularly and can only work as it is evaporating. Permethrin works for weeks after it has dried inside clothing fibers.
 •DEET is applied directly to the skin and can be absorbed through the skin. Permethrin is applied to clothing only and has limited contact to the skin.
 •DEET has a detectable odor. Permethrin smells only until it dries. 
•DEET does not kill or disable ticks and is a poor repellent. Permethrin works instantly and is extremely effective. It is the tick repellent of choice by the military.
 •DEET can melt synthetic clothes like nylon. Permethrin causes no damage to any known cloth or synthetic fiber.


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## hawglips (Mar 11, 2015)

mose said:


> Excuse me if this is a stupid question, But why not just use some Off or Repel with Deet?



One treatment with permethrin and you're good for the season.

I won't start a turkey season without it.


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## Zombie woof (Mar 11, 2015)

gregg said:


> And another question....what happens if after the permethrin dries and is supposedly safe, your pants/boots get wet from dew and you touch them getting your boots off....now it is on your skin and one step away from mouth/eyes/food/etc...Is it still safe after rewetting?



Don't quote me b/c I'm not a biologist or chemist, but my understanding is that Permethrin is actually non toxic to humans if exposed to the skin and the effective compound is actually deactivated by skin exposure. It's simply ineffective if applied to the skin (although I do take precautions to avoiding skin contact out of abundance of caution). The molecules in permethrin bind to the fabric of your clothing but are not deactivated by water exposure. It is approved by FDA, EPA, as well as the Dept. of Defense and is preferred insect repellant of the military, which collectively is suitable for me. 

That said, I want to reemphasize I am not a scientist and encourage you to seek a professional opinion if there is some concern on a personal level about using permethrin.


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## gregg (Mar 11, 2015)

Zombie woof said:


> Don't quote me b/c I'm not a biologist or chemist, but my understanding is that Permethrin is actually non toxic to humans if exposed to the skin and the effective compound is actually deactivated by skin exposure. It's simply ineffective if applied to the skin (although I do take precautions to avoiding skin contact out of abundance of caution). The molecules in permethrin bind to the fabric of your clothing but are not deactivated by water exposure. It is approved by FDA, EPA, as well as the Dept. of Defense and is preferred insect repellant of the military, which collectively is suitable for me.
> 
> That said, I want to reemphasize I am not a scientist and encourage you to seek a professional opinion if there is some concern on a personal level about using permethrin.



We do live in a litigious society don't we, appreciate the thoughts. 

I have a rare "disease" caused by a lone star tick bite....Alpha-gal allergy..... where I am severely allergic to red meet...beef,pork,venison,buffalo,etc....I do not want my son to get bit by one of these guys so I am going to use the Permethrin this year. I've had this allergy for approx. 15 years, it wasn't until fairly recently that I saw an explanation for what was a mystery to me for years.


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## AliBubba (Mar 11, 2015)

Livestock Permethirn is usually around 10% , mix 1oz to 16oz of water to get roughly a .05% mixture the same effective percentage as Sawyers spray. Doing it this way, you get 128oz of tick/chigger killing goodness for $6.99. Also, 10% Permetirin .... 2 tbs per 2 cups ~ .05% Permethirin. Last year I used Repel's Tick Defense that can be applied to skin and clothing. It contains Picaridin which is odorless with less issues vs DEET. Zero ticks...


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## Zombie woof (Mar 12, 2015)

gregg said:


> We do live in a litigious society don't we, appreciate the thoughts.
> 
> I have a rare "disease" caused by a lone star tick bite....Alpha-gal allergy..... where I am severely allergic to red meet...beef,pork,venison,buffalo,etc....I do not want my son to get bit by one of these guys so I am going to use the Permethrin this year. I've had this allergy for approx. 15 years, it wasn't until fairly recently that I saw an explanation for what was a mystery to me for years.



Haha - we absolutely live in a litigious society. I guess this disposition cannot escape influence from personal and professional experiences and observations. 

I'm sorry to hear that you've an Alpha-gal allergy. I read about a study that linked this allergy to a lone star tick bite a couple of years ago and it sounds tough. As if Lyme disease isn't enough to worry about...a tick bite makes me as nervous as anything in the turkey woods due to difficulty to diagnose and long-term effects that I am sure you are all too familiar with, and is the reason I am so vocal about taking whatever measures are available to reduce this risk.  

I am a strong believer in permethrin, and had two experiences last season alone that bolstered my view. The first involved a mid-morning stalk in a milo field in which I belly crawled the edge for two hours in pursuit of a feeding tom. I was trying a new vest and hadn't treated it, and found three ticks crawling on the vest during my stalk. The second came when I was taking an untreated blind down at season end. I found 8 ticks came from that blind, two of which were crawling on areas of exposed skin as I was walking back to the truck (one actually bit me on the arm but I got him off immediately), and then found six more crawling in my truck in the days after which really scared me since I don't normally wear treated clothes when out of the field! I didn't see one other tick near or on me in the turkey woods last spring which I fully believe is due to permethrin. I am definitely going to treat my blinds and new vest this coming season, which could get really expensive if I used the Sawyers spray. 

Happy hunting this season and stay tick free!


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2015)

I dip my dogs every spring in a 15 to 1 solution then throw my hunting clothes in, then myself. For good measure I will get a couple big swallows to make sure I get complete coverage. Have not had a tick on me in years.
Oh dang....there goes another tooth.


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## gregg (Mar 12, 2015)

Zombie woof said:


> Haha - we absolutely live in a litigious society. I guess this disposition cannot escape influence from personal and professional experiences and observations.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that you've an Alpha-gal allergy. I read about a study that linked this allergy to a lone star tick bite a couple of years ago and it sounds tough. As if Lyme disease isn't enough to worry about...a tick bite makes me as nervous as anything in the turkey woods due to difficulty to diagnose and long-term effects that I am sure you are all too familiar with, and is the reason I am so vocal about taking whatever measures are available to reduce this risk.
> 
> ...



I went to Tractor Supply yesterday and could not find the permethrin concentrate, all they seemingly had in stock was some spray with .5% permethrin designed for spraying on clothes....I got that as it seemed to match the .5% that has been recommended.


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2015)

gregg said:


> I went to Tractor Supply yesterday and could not find the permethrin concentrate, all they seemingly had in stock was some spray with .5% permethrin designed for spraying on clothes....I got that as it seemed to match the .5% that has been recommended.



It usually is over where they keep the fly spray for horses and livestock. They did carry it in 2 sizes.


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## gregg (Mar 12, 2015)

Timber1 said:


> It usually is over where they keep the fly spray for horses and livestock. They did carry it in 2 sizes.



Ah, the guy told me it was somewhere else, I will check that area out.


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## SKFOOTER (Mar 12, 2015)

Unless I am mistaken, the Martin's brand and the brand that they carry at Tractor Supply are petroleum based and the Sawyer's brand is water based.  Are there any human health issues or advantages from using one over the other?


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## SKFOOTER (Mar 16, 2015)

Bump.


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## elfiii (Mar 16, 2015)

turkeyslaya said:


> Hey guys, a year or two ago, I think I remember seeing a thread on here with the instructions and warnings for the mixing of permethrin 10% for ticks. I failed to bookmark it, so I did a search, and couldn't find it. (probably just overlooking it) I'm using Martins Permethrin 10%, does anybody have the permethrin/water ratio, or link to old thread? Thanks in advance guys and Happy Hunting!



Looks like 10:1 is the preferred ratio.

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=7921873&postcount=6

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=8784501&postcount=10

There's more where that came from but you get the picture.


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## willie1971 (Mar 16, 2015)

gregg said:


> We do live in a litigious society don't we, appreciate the thoughts.
> 
> I have a rare "disease" caused by a lone star tick bite....Alpha-gal allergy..... where I am severely allergic to red meet...beef,pork,venison,buffalo,etc....I do not want my son to get bit by one of these guys so I am going to use the Permethrin this year. I've had this allergy for approx. 15 years, it wasn't until fairly recently that I saw an explanation for what was a mystery to me for years.


Yes - alpha-gal is the real deal.  I went to an allergy symposium and this allergy was most intriguing.  I couldn't imagine not being able to eat a burger.  Thanks for sharing and speading the news.  alpha-gal is becoming more common, and this board/info is helpful in preventing this issue.  and alpha-gal can show up much later after the tick bite, and can cause anaphlaxis, which can be fatal.


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## Zombie woof (Mar 20, 2015)

I found out that you can send your own clothes to Insect Shield and have them treat them with permethrin for relatively cheap. This is a great alternative for those who may be nervous about mixing your own formula with the 10% solution. I talked to an employee and she walked me through the process. First they soak each garmet in permethrin along with other binding agents, and then dry and the heat further binds the permethrin into the garmet. They guarantee effectiveness for 70 washings. And they are EPA registered for those concerned about the application of chemicals. 

I already own some of Gamehide's Insect Shield line and have never had a problem with ticks while wearing them, so IS definitely gets my endorsement. I just wish I'd known about this deal before shelling out $70 for a pair of Gamehide IS pants last year!! 

I am packing up 5 items to send tomorrow. Total treatment cost is around $41 plus shipping, so maybe $60 all in.

Here's a link to their site / order form for those interested: 

http://www.insectshield.com/PDF/IS_Your_Own_Clothes_-_US_form_revised_3-11-2015.pdf


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