# Mental illness in the bible



## JFS (Aug 25, 2011)

So the bible is full of people who claim to have heard god speak to them.  Let's assume for the moment these people were sincere, and perhaps their sincerity was enough to convince others. I was reading a pretty good book last night on the way the mind works and there are couple of good passages on neurological conditions that produce visions of god and hyper-religiosity.  But these are now measurable conditions with an materialistic explanation, not mysterious conversations with god.

The bible also refers to the ability to cast out demons.  
So were there really people possessed by demons that were cast out by some holy power   Or maybe people then didn't have a good understanding of mental illness.

And if they didn't understand mental illness, how would they differentiate between legitimate communication with god and neurological problems?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 25, 2011)

schizophrenia is a real disease ...how come psychics never talk to GOD? i don't have all the answers , but i have plenty of questions.


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## stringmusic (Aug 26, 2011)

JFS said:


> So the bible is full of people who claim to have heard god speak to them.  Let's assume for the moment these people were sincere, and perhaps their sincerity was enough to convince others. I was reading a pretty good book last night on the way the mind works and there are couple of good passages on neurological conditions that produce visions of god and hyper-religiosity.  But these are now measurable conditions with an materialistic explanation, not mysterious conversations with god.
> 
> The bible also refers to the ability to cast out demons.
> So were there really people possessed by demons that were cast out by some holy power   Or maybe people then didn't have a good understanding of mental illness.
> ...



Coherent books written over 1500 years on 3 different continents and over 40 authors?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Coherent books written over 1500 years on 3 different continents and over 40 authors?



still think my alien theory is possible in several parts of the world . that is how we got so many races of people . sure did not come from adam and eve .


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## bullethead (Aug 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Coherent books written over 1500 years on 3 different continents and over 40 authors?



One book written by one author at the beginning of time would really be something. Universally understood with no revisions and no involvement from man. Now that would be a book to follow!


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> still think my alien theory is possible in several parts of the world . that is how we got so many races of people . sure did not come from adam and eve .




lol     what is your 'alien' theory?   I must have missed that somewhere....     Are you saying aliens from space did something?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol     what is your 'alien' theory?   I must have missed that somewhere....     Are you saying aliens from space did something?



http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=638769&highlight=


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## Six million dollar ham (Aug 26, 2011)

Ever read The God Delusion?



> In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's statement in Lila that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."[4]


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=638769&highlight=



Wow....I scrolled through the thread, looking for some lame 'aliens planted life here' belief, but am still in disbelief as to what I read.    Until now, I've never read or heard where someone else saw the same thing I did.   I swear!    Now, I'm an avid christian, but here's what I saw when I was like 9 or 10.  

My brother and I were at my grandmother's house...and it was late.  (I'm guessing it was circa 1972)   If my brother had not been there at the time, I'd swear it was a dream.  I even asked him two weeks ago to give me his side of the story again, (where it was, what direction it was headed, size, etc)    He gave me the exact same details as I have in my memory!    

We saw a disc shaped object....maybe 100 feet across, moving slowly at about 200 yards away.    It, too, had a circle of lights around the bottom of the craft.   

Anytime I hear a UFO story from someone my first reaction is to think "WACK JOB!!!"....but then I remember....

What we saw wasn't 'flashing lights' or blurry fast-moving objects....it was a saucer....clear as a bell....and slow moving.   

I have no explanation for it....but it doesn't affect my beliefs as a christian.

Can't believe I just read that.    That is eerie, Hummdadddy


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

Well, looks like I killed this thread!    lol

I'm being serious, though.   What my brother and I saw was not a helicopter....or balloon.   It was close, and clearly visible at ~200 yards.  

anyway, not trying to derail the thread....just really freaky to see someone describe something that I saw years ago.

carry on...


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## CAL (Aug 26, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Ever read The God Delusion?



Nope,don't read nothing about there isn't a God.Would be a waste of my time because I know better.It has been proven to me beyond doubt.Not because I asked for proof but because I prayed for God to intervene and He did.Giving me proof that I didn't even need but got anyway.In the same situation,i think I entertained an Angle too.Not real sure about that but the evidence was there.(remember,when something acts like er dog,barks like er dog,most time it is a dog)
Peace Brother.


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## CAL (Aug 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Well, looks like I killed this thread!    lol
> 
> I'm being serious, though.   What my brother and I saw was not a helicopter....or balloon.   It was close, and clearly visible at ~200 yards.
> 
> ...



That is very interesting.I wish there was a thread about such for people to discuss what they have seen.Makes me wonder.Think I will start one.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

CAL said:


> Nope,don't read nothing about there isn't a God.Would be a waste of my time because I know better.It has been proven to me beyond doubt.Not because I asked for proof but because I prayed for God to intervene and He did.Giving me proof that I didn't even need but got anyway.In the same situation,i think I entertained an Angle too.Not real sure about that but the evidence was there.(remember,when something acts like er dog,barks like er dog,most time it is a dog)
> Peace Brother.



I agree, Cal.   When you've met God there's no going back.   William Lane Craig, in his debates with atheists, argues 5 main points, the last being that Jesus Christ can be immediately experienced.   You can't just say "if you're there, prove it!" but when you come to Him in sincerity, He will show Himself.  

Also, Paul writes in Hebrews that we could entertain angels 'unawares'.   No doubt they would look like humans (homo sapiens  lol)


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## JFS (Aug 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> but when you come to Him in sincerity, He will show Himself.



Or more likely self-delusion and wishful thinking.  How exactly is this any different than a child's imaginary friend or people who hear voices in their head?

How do you think he can "show himself" without it being measurable?  What's the physics behind that? Or is it just magic?

The subjective psychological impact of a belief is not proof of the external validity of the belief.  If I am walking down a scary street and I recite psalm 23 and tell myself god is watching out for me, I very well may feel better, but that doesn't  mean there is a magical being protecting me at all.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

JFS said:


> Or more likely self-delusion and wishful thinking.  How exactly is this any different than a child's imaginary friend or people who hear voices in their head?
> 
> How do you think he can "show himself" without it being measurable?  What's the physics behind that? Or is it just magic?
> 
> The subjective psychological impact of a belief is not proof of the external validity of the belief.  If I am walking down a scary street and I recite psalm 23 and tell myself god is watching out for me, I very well may feel better, but that doesn't  mean there is a magical being protecting me at all.




    that's because you've never experienced Him!   You are right, though.   It's not measurable.   No physics behind it, other than what goes on inside.   

Trust me....if a god made all that we can see and know....He (it) could make himself known without standing in front of you...and that's what He did with me!   (and most everyone I've ever known who were 'born again')   Jesus meets you on the spot!   You can't prove it to anyone...but no one can take it from you.    When He filled me with the Holy Ghost (foreign jibberish talk to you, i'm  sure) it was manifest to all around me.   My wife and I were eating at a local restaurant, and talking about the Lord, when He filled me!    We left the restaurant, went home, and for an hour He was with me!    

Laugh, ridicule all you want.   He can show Himself without being physical or material.   If He couldn't...he wouldn't be all that!


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## hummdaddy (Aug 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Well, looks like I killed this thread!    lol
> 
> I'm being serious, though.   What my brother and I saw was not a helicopter....or balloon.   It was close, and clearly visible at ~200 yards.
> 
> ...



i believe you . no doubt in my mind what i saw !!!


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## bullethead (Aug 26, 2011)

It is easy to link Jesus, God, or any supreme belief to an individuals mindset.

If I pray to the Oak tree out in front of my house and believe that Oak tree has some mystical power over me I WILL be biased towards anything good that happens and give all the credit to that tree. If I just thank it every day and I have a great week at work I am going to owe it to the tree. Only in an individuals mind and entirely on an individual basis does this stuff actually work out no matter who a person "gives" them self to. If ya think it is Jesus, GREAT! But people without him in their life have just as great experiences and strange phenomenon that work out to their benefit. They are healthy, feel good about themselves, get along with friends and family, are well respected among their community  and experience everything else a believer does, except they do not submit to any invisible force or being.


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## bzb (Aug 26, 2011)

Are you trying to defend Mormons or Scientologists?


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## JFS (Aug 26, 2011)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> My wife and I were eating at a local restaurant, and talking about the Lord, when He filled me!    We left the restaurant, went home, and for an hour He was with me!



OK, maybe HF was right:




Huntinfool said:


> Most of those people (including a bunch in here) would dismiss that tap as a bad burrito


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## BANDERSNATCH (Aug 26, 2011)

lol


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## Michael F. Gray (Aug 26, 2011)

It s unfortunate you have opened the door to a subject about which so few have experiance, and it's a topic you will not gain in a classroom, nor from a book. The first mistake was being given to assumptions. Assume nothing. This is a subject about which I prefer to say little. I wll say to equate demon possesion with mental illness is as wrong as having three left feet.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> It is easy to link Jesus, God, or any supreme belief to an individuals mindset.
> 
> If I pray to the Oak tree out in front of my house and believe that Oak tree has some mystical power over me I WILL be biased towards anything good that happens and give all the credit to that tree. If I just thank it every day and I have a great week at work I am going to owe it to the tree. Only in an individuals mind and entirely on an individual basis does this stuff actually work out no matter who a person "gives" them self to. If ya think it is Jesus, GREAT! But people without him in their life have just as great experiences and strange phenomenon that work out to their benefit. They are healthy, feel good about themselves, get along with friends and family, are well respected among their community  and experience everything else a believer does, except they do not submit to any invisible force or being.



I think you have this backwards. My God does not exist because of my mindset. My mindset exists because of my God.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

When God speaks to me, it isn't a voice in my head. It is discernment. It is absolute peace knowing what He is saying to me. It is kind of a realization. It is very clear.


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## ambush80 (Aug 26, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> When God speaks to me, it isn't a voice in my head. It is discernment. It is absolute peace knowing what He is saying to me. It is kind of a realization. It is very clear.




When Hindus hear Krishna do you think they are making it up in their heads or do think they are really hearing the Christian Devil?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

I've got to say, I used to be completely delusional as well.. Anyone can choose not to believe me (because you have to), I had the peace and the clarity as well.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> When Hindus hear Krishna do you think they are making it up in their heads or do think they are really hearing the Christian Devil?



I have no idea Ambush. It is probably the Devil.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I've got to say, I used to be completely delusional as well.. Anyone can choose not to believe me (because you have to), I had the peace and the clarity as well.



So you no longer have peace and clarity?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

Not when it comes to the peace and clarity you were speaking of. Why I said "the" peace and clarity.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Not when it comes to the peace and clarity you were speaking of. Why I said "the" peace and clarity.



I meant generally. That is what I was speaking of.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

But of course you're saying it comes from god. I have peace and clarity generally, just not from god.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> But of course you're saying it comes from god. I have peace and clarity generally, just not from god.



Well, that is where I get mine. You can get yours from wherever you like.

Of course you are assuming my position. Can't say that I blame you, there are a lot of nuts out there.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

I assumed based on god speaking to you and the peace and clarity in the same post. 

I still can and do get the same feeling peace and clarity that I used to attribute to god.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I assumed based on god speaking to you and the peace and clarity in the same post.
> 
> I still can and do get the same feeling peace and clarity that I used to attribute to god.



Where or what do you attribute it to now?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

Since I've denounced the holy ghost or whatever you call it, it can't be god. Yeah yeah.. Does not having an answer mean that it's not real?


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## bullethead (Aug 26, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I think you have this backwards. My God does not exist because of my mindset. My mindset exists because of my God.



No, that is how it is for me. The opposite for you.


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## bullethead (Aug 26, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> When God speaks to me, it isn't a voice in my head. It is discernment. It is absolute peace knowing what He is saying to me. It is kind of a realization. It is very clear.



Same thing for me with the Mighty Oak tree in my yard....exactly.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> No, that is how it is for me. The opposite for you.



"I know you are but what am I".


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## bullethead (Aug 26, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> "I know you are but what am I".



A semi-bad Pee-Wee Herman impersonator??? What did I win?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

My last name is Herrmann... I am offended


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## ambush80 (Aug 27, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I have no idea Ambush. It is probably the Devil.



You must feel so bad for the poor Hindus.


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## mtnwoman (Aug 27, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> You must feel so bad for the poor Hindus.



I feel sorry for the hindus because they watch their children starve in the shadow of a sacred cow which contains 33 of their 'gods'.

None of y'all would make it thru hinduism, most don't eat or kill animals.


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## bullethead (Aug 27, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> I feel sorry for the hindus because they watch their children starve in the shadow of a sacred cow which contains 33 of their 'gods'.
> 
> None of y'all would make it thru hinduism, most don't eat or kill animals.



The crazy part is that none of that is crazy to a Hindu. If we were born and raised in India odds are we would all be Hindus and would make it just fine. It is how we would have been told to live right from day one.


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