# Duramax vs Cummings...



## Jranger (Nov 6, 2007)

I was looking at a 6.0 Powerstroke the other day and nearly bought it (Thank God for my Ford Master Tech Buddy getting to me first). So, now I am looking around at the Duramax and the Cummings. As far as work goes I would not be pulling 14k on a daily basis, I usually just pull boats and campers. However, my gas burner (03 Z-71) has 0% power when I need it and my fuel economy is horrible when I am towing (about 6-8 mpg).

I have always liked the GMC products over other manufacturers. Since I will be buying used, I was curious about the life of the two motors I am comparing and the standard warranty's of both. I think GMC is 100k power-train, I have no idea about the Dodge. Anyone know of any concerns with either of these products that they care to elaborate on?
Thanks,
Jay


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## Chris1 (Nov 6, 2007)

cummins all day long


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## Ol' 30-30 (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm a gas guy looking to go diesel too.  I've asked around and this is what I've heard.  Stay away from the Ford 6.0 (like your buddy said) if your a Ford guy go 7.3.  The Duramax and Allison is a good combo but the Cummins engine is better but the Dodge tranny is the weak link.  I'm looking for a Duramax also but I'm curious to hear from actual owners on this topic like you.


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## stev (Nov 6, 2007)

I like my duramax.no problems what so ever.With my efi live as my choices of programing ,to the specs i need.Never had a dodge-um .So i can only give my experience on the duramax greasel.Maitiance is the key thing for diesel .Changing them filters regularly.I change my fuel filter @ 8000 miles ,oil every 3000 miles .I change my external & internal tranny filters every 30.000 miles.I do maintain my more then needed ,but i feel better thats its done.Ive already had my diffs done twice cause i go in the water sometimes crossing creeks.Diesels are more maitance but worth having.


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## grizzlyblake (Nov 6, 2007)

Cummins are used in medium duty trucks, duramax are light duty conversion v8s. Look at F750s and bigger trucks, Cummins are available.


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## quackertackr (Nov 6, 2007)

I love my cummins 5.9. I wish I had another gear in the transmission. I get 18-20 MPG not towing. Drops a little towing but the power doesn't. Truck Trend mag did a shoot out last month or 2 comparing the 3 and  gas engines. I do not know about the cummins 6.7.


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## Jranger (Nov 6, 2007)

quackertackr said:


> I love my cummins 5.9. I wish I had another gear in the transmission. I get 18-20 MPG not towing. Drops a little towing but the power doesn't. Truck Trend mag did a shoot out last month or 2 comparing the 3 and  gas engines. I do not know about the cummins 6.7.



Thanks Quacker...that's the sort of stuff I need to hear. Keep it coming guy's!!!
Jay


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## grizzlyblake (Nov 6, 2007)

Yeah, unless you're going to be towing around town all the time make sure you do not get the 4.10 gears. My 2001 cummins sings at 2000rpm at 65mph getting close to 21mpg. But doesn't really like to go over 75. 

It will, however, pull a house off its foundation and will last beyond 500,000 miles easy.


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## Booger (Nov 6, 2007)

I have had the 7.3 Powerstroke and although slow it was a great motor. I tried the 6.0 and got a lemon, but when it ran it was quick and strong. I switched to Cummins in 05 and will never own anything else. I have the G56 6-speed tranny with 3.73 rear and see about 2300 rmp's at 72-75 which hurts milage a little but I have never geared down with a load on an up grade. Cummins for life.


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## Jimmys 78 (Nov 6, 2007)

Cummings last forever. If you can stay away from the 6.7 if you can. Go with the tried and true 5.9. They put all the new emissions stuff on the 6.7. My dads and my inlaws both get around 16mpg not towing and 10-12 towing. We just got back from Colorado pulling a 5000lb camper in my inlaws and it never got better than 10mpg. We spent $1250 dollars in diesil.


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## Jranger (Nov 7, 2007)

Great input guys. I appreciate it!
Jay


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## Hi-tech Redneck (Nov 7, 2007)

i will stick to my tractor motor. i am familiar with the d-max and Efi live is plain out SICK. however,
diesels, IMO, should be inline.
i need straight axle, not IFS on the chevy.
i would buy a used 04-06 5.9, preferably 6 speed manual. if you went auto i wouldn't worry. my auto has 250K on it and it scoots right along still, and my truck gets USED.-cummins owner


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## Dawgfan52 (Nov 7, 2007)

*6.0*

Most of the recent 6.0's (06-07) are very reliable.  They had some issues in early production but they generally trouble free now in stock form. You  can also get an extended warranty now for 7 years/200,000.   

Most dealers still don't know how to properly diagnose these late-model diesels, so you can be on your own with any brand if you have a sorry dealer.   The new emissions restrictions are hurting all 3 major brands right now.   Dodge seems to have the most issues right now, GM the least.  The LBZ Duramax(06-07) are really nice trucks.

Wes


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## grizzlyblake (Nov 7, 2007)

Just to clear it up it's CUMMINS not CUMMINGS


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## Jranger (Nov 7, 2007)

grizzlyblake said:


> Just to clear it up it's CUMMINS not CUMMINGS



Noted... Told you guys I knew squat about Dodges...


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## Mr. Jimmy (Nov 7, 2007)

Of the 3rd generation Cummins, the 2003 has proven to be the most reliable so far and has less emmision crap to worry with. The 03 is often compared to the 12 valve Cummins which is known to be bullet proof.


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## biggin13 (Nov 7, 2007)

Cummings is better than Duramax any day!!!!!


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## Hintz (Nov 7, 2007)

if you get a cummins get the manual there autos aint half of what the allison is, but for towing def. the cummins over dmax but the dmax is a great engine, just stay away from the lly engines 04.5-05 they have a terrible over heating problem


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## Rednec (Nov 8, 2007)

*Cummins*

Ill echo "Mr Jimmy"...if youre after crewcab 03 has the rep for being the best Dodge,,,im hoping to sale my 93 12v for an 03. Many CTD last for 1,000,000 miles.


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## Pale Blue Dun (Nov 9, 2007)

Cummins is a great motor and so is the Duramax. The above poster is right, though. Dodge has a weak link with the transmission. That is surprising considering that MB owned Dodge for so long. 

If you are towing everyday I'd say stick with the GM because of the transmission unless you get a manual then it's a tossup.

Dan


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## shoot870p (Nov 9, 2007)

*the feul pump is a weak link*

If you go with a "generation 2" Dodge make sure- in order to save yourself some grief- and install a fuel pressure guage. When the pump starts going the injector pump will not get enough fuel to cool itself and run the engine. Bottom line BIG EXPENSE when you replace the pumps.
Having said that the Cummins is a strong engine but it is surrounded by weak points- in my opinion (after several repairs!!).


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## sawyerrt10 (Nov 9, 2007)

03 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 5.9 Cummins 111000 miles and still rocking!!!


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## badger (Nov 9, 2007)

Pale Blue Dun said:


> Cummins is a great motor and so is the Duramax. The above poster is right, though. Dodge has a weak link with the transmission. That is surprising considering that MB owned Dodge for so long.
> 
> If you are towing everyday I'd say stick with the GM because of the transmission unless you get a manual then it's a tossup.
> 
> Dan



Wow! Lots of outdated info out there..........
The 48RE tranny used since 2003 has been a great tranny when used with a stock motor. Because the Cummins is so easy to get horsepower out of, there are many of them that are putting 400-500 hp to the ground on stock trannys. With that much power (Torque outputs of 800-1000 lb/ft) there will be some guys burning up transmissions, just as there are Allison trannies burning up with chipped Duramax's. I hunt with a guy who owns a 2004 D/Max to needs a transmission right now. 

If you want to play like a sport, you gotta pay like a sport . I spent the money & upgraded my transmission with Suncoast parts at 65k. Got 118k now with no problems, 502 hp & 1060 lb/ft to the wheels on my 2003 Dodge.

BTW: Mercedes & Chrysler split up about a year ago. The new transmission behind the 6.7 Cummins is a 6 speed Aisan.


badger


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## Hintz (Nov 10, 2007)

badger said:


> Wow! Lots of outdated info out there..........
> The 48RE tranny used since 2003 has been a great tranny when used with a stock motor. Because the Cummins is so easy to get horsepower out of, there are many of them that are putting 400-500 hp to the ground on stock trannys. With that much power (Torque outputs of 800-1000 lb/ft) there will be some guys burning up transmissions, just as there are Allison trannies burning up with chipped Duramax's. I hunt with a guy who owns a 2004 D/Max to needs a transmission right now.
> 
> If you want to play like a sport, you gotta pay like a sport . I spent the money & upgraded my transmission with Suncoast parts at 65k. Got 118k now with no problems, 502 hp & 1060 lb/ft to the wheels on my 2003 Dodge.
> ...


you are right there is a lot of outdated info and your giving it, first the tranny used behind the 6.7 in 2500 and 3500 trucks is the 68RFE not the aisan the aisan is used in the chassi/cab trucks and the reason the 48re gets a bad rap is b/c the 47re and 47rh these trannys sucked and one reason the 48re sucks is b/c of the gear ratios aka theres not enough of them


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## stev (Nov 10, 2007)

You can drive my duramax and c what its all about if you want too.It pulls like a tank.


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## badger (Nov 10, 2007)

Hintz said:


> you are right there is a lot of outdated info and your giving it, first the tranny used behind the 6.7 in 2500 and 3500 trucks is the 68RFE not the aisan the aisan is used in the chassi/cab trucks and the reason the 48re gets a bad rap is b/c the 47re and 47rh these trannys sucked and one reason the 48re sucks is b/c of the gear ratios aka theres not enough of them



Yup,
you are right about the Aisan in the chassis/cab models. Your point about the 48RE? I believe you just confirmed what I said. I guess one could make the same point about earlier Ford & Chevy trannies & engines being good or bad. I was referring to the 48RE, not the 47's.  As far as the 4spd is concerned, when you're making max torque at 1600 rpm & that torque curve is flat all the way to 2900 rpm, 4 gears is quite sufficient. The powerstrokes (6.0l) that have to be revved like a gas engine to make power needs those extra gears.  I haven't looked at the D/Max's torque chart.


BTW: Thanks for the polite response


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## Hintz (Nov 10, 2007)

badger said:


> Yup,
> you are right about the Aisan in the chassis/cab models. Your point about the 48RE? I believe you just confirmed what I said. I guess one could make the same point about earlier Ford & Chevy trannies & engines being good or bad. I was referring to the 48RE, not the 47's.  As far as the 4spd is concerned, when you're making max torque at 1600 rpm & that torque curve is flat all the way to 2900 rpm, 4 gears is quite sufficient. The powerstrokes (6.0l) that have to be revved like a gas engine to make power needs those extra gears.  I haven't looked at the D/Max's torque chart.
> 
> 
> BTW: Thanks for the polite response


sorry didnt mean to come off like an butt head,  but your right the 6.0l is like a gas engine it needs to rev, but both the cummins and dmax are rated at peak torque from the factory but if you ever look at and actual dyno sheet the ram makes peak tq at around 2200rpm and the dmax is a little bit higher and the dodges tq curve its a little flatter were the dmaxs goes a little higher, I might be wrong but the dmax will go to 4500rpm w/ the right mods were the cummins goes to 3500, but a new smarty program is in place to make it fuel to 4000rpm. As for the trannys the 48re is a dog compared to the ford or chevys and the compression braking is much better w/ the ford and chevy also, now again im not saying the dodge is a bad tranny just not in the same ballpark as the ford or chevy trannys


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## badger (Nov 10, 2007)

Hintz said:


> sorry didnt mean to come off like an as$



No problem My sorry 48RE still managed to push my 4X4 Club Cab down the 1/4 at 13.6 sec @ 102 mph though......

Not really fast by todays standards, but good enough as a daily driver. No internal engine mods at all, original (slightly modified) turbo, Banks Monster exhaust and a TST PMCR.


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## ronmac13 (Nov 10, 2007)

stev said:


> You can drive my duramax and c what its all about if you want too.It pulls like a tank.



GET EMMMM!!!!!


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## stev (Nov 10, 2007)

And the black smoke like a train


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## Hintz (Nov 10, 2007)

badger said:


> No problem My sorry 48RE still managed to push my 4X4 Club Cab down the 1/4 at 13.6 sec @ 102 mph though......
> 
> Not really fast by todays standards, but good enough as a daily driver. No internal engine mods at all, original (slightly modified) turbo, Banks Monster exhaust and a TST PMCR.



thats fast by any means but you need to stack the tst w/ the SMARTY???????


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## badger (Nov 10, 2007)

Stock holset turbo, just took a dremel to the exhaust housing & opened it up a little. Also has a non opening wastegate now & will boost about 39 lb. I need more air now, not fuel.


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## Jranger (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks guys, I'm still taking notes...


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## John Cooper (Nov 12, 2007)

i pull hotshot for a living and have step up to the medium duty trucks for all the above mentioned problems i now have a freightliner FL70 with a 300hp 3126 cat and an allison tranny. i will never go back to a pick-up for pulling a load again. course my loads are heavier than most pick-up users but im in it for a living too. and with the fuel cost like they are i would buy the dodge 3500 with the big gas burner and life time power train warrenty and drive the wheels off it


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## JeffsJeep04 (Nov 16, 2007)

Love that 3126...I ran a class 8 GMC dumptruck last year with that motor and it was a beast. Even with 17 tons in the back, it never really felt like it was struggling. It's just not the same having an automatic ford ranger for my work truck now


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## Reformed Yankee (Nov 16, 2007)

*cummins vs duramax*

I guess I'm a bit of an oddball.  I work for Cummins and drive a Ford 6.0 F-250.  I agree with the post that said to stay away from the 6.7l Cummins.  It will be a great set up in a year or two, but as with anything new the emissions crap is causing a few problems.  I haven't ha dany trouble from my 6.0 and I pull a 12500 pound trailer on a regular basis.  I would never own a Duramax.  I had an 05 GMC 4500 service truck at my last job and it spent more time in the shop than it did actually working.  It had two sets of injectors and a couple of wiring harnesses in the first six months.  Of course some of that is trying to find a decent GM diesel mechanic.  By the way I get around 13 mpg pulling my trailer.


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## 02dodge3500 (Nov 16, 2007)

cummins owner here and i have to say that any of them are good chevy your paing for that bow tie  you put  price tags next to each other your looking at a 10k to 15k diff. in pirce chevy over dodge....the dodomax and allision  is a great pair  but you hook it to a cummins with manual 6spd youll drag it all day long and as i see in other threads  you look at the big rigs no strokers or dodomaxes in there.....i love my cummins been through all of them if i was rich i might........might......umm......go to dodomax but i not rich go with a cummins dude you wont be sorry........oh and another thing look under the hoods you can't work under the hood os the others but that cummins like the old muscel cars you can get in there and work on it if if if if if you have to but unlikely


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## 02dodge3500 (Nov 16, 2007)

ph yea a little inside the engine info the dmax and pstroke have 5 main bearings the cummins has 7


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## Ruger#3 (Nov 16, 2007)

*Cummins*

158K hard miles on mine, great rig with few issues. I'll tell this and watch the eyes roll if I I could see them. I needed a neighbors John Deere 350 dozer to clear some acreage. I hooked a triple axle trailer with electric brakes to a pintle adapter and towed the rig a few miles on dirt road between our properties. I still havent had any issues with my automatic. That was at about 30K miles.

The only issue with the truck so far related to the transmission was a speed sensor in the rear end. It controls the speedometer and your transmisson governor. The sensor went out and the truck went stupid. Popped in a sensor and no worries sense then. I plan on running this rig until the fenders fall off. Then I'll buy another one!


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## basslure (Nov 29, 2007)

I heard in three years ford is going to swap to Cummins because of allthe problems they have had with the Internationals


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## Jranger (Nov 29, 2007)

thnx guy's


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## Hi-tech Redneck (Nov 29, 2007)

basslure said:


> I heard in three years ford is going to swap to Cummins because of allthe problems they have had with the Internationals



No...Dodge and Cummins have a contract until 2011. Rumor has it Ford is dropping International, but they will produce their own diesel. You think they have problems now, just wait!!


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## B Young (Dec 4, 2007)

I got a 2001 cummins with a six speed manual. I have 131000 miles and it gets well over 20 mpg and I pull trailors on a regular basis. I love it. It is noisey and my wife refers to it as "that rattlin ram" but it is sweet and I should not have to have another truck for ummmmmm.... 10 years? except for the fact that I am fixin to buy another to add to the collection but this one will be a 4-wheel drive. If you have to get off of the pavement dont get a 2-wheeler the front end is to heavy and you will be stuck.All you need to remember is get a 100 dollar holley pusher pump and you won't have any issues out of a cummins. Oh, yeah one more thing, a duramax is also a good engine and is way faster than a cummins but are you gonna race or drive and tow. Keep in mind a cummins gets better fuel mileage and has less than half the moving parts of the v-8 diesels and an expected rebuild near 400k miles.


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## JeffsJeep04 (Dec 9, 2007)

B Young said:


> <snip>...and has less than half the moving parts of the v-8 diesels and an expected rebuild near 400k miles.



My math may be off, but how do you figure?


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## buckmaster06 (Dec 9, 2007)

im a master tech, to put it short dodge sucks, chevy is your best bet, i have to duramax and they are great, strong, and qeiut


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## 97Stroker (Dec 9, 2007)

Personally, I have a 7.3 first Generation powerstroke. I love it, but I prefer Cummins. They are great motors. Anybody know of any cheap upgrades for an 05 5.9L cummins. Already has dual 4" exhaust and a cold air intake.


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## Hintz (Dec 10, 2007)

buckmaster06 said:


> im a master tech, to put it short dodge sucks, chevy is your best bet, i have to duramax and they are great, strong, and qeiut


well, there you have then, straight from a master tech (wondering where the eye rolling smilie is)


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## stev (Dec 11, 2007)

97Stroker said:


> Personally, I have a 7.3 first Generation powerstroke. I love it, but I prefer Cummins. They are great motors. Anybody know of any cheap upgrades for an 05 5.9L cummins. Already has dual 4" exhaust and a cold air intake.


efi live .Is what im runnin in my truck.Better have a tranny to back it up.Suncoast v with a 1056 torque converter .


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## badger (Dec 11, 2007)

buckmaster06 said:


> im a master tech, to put it short dodge sucks, chevy is your best bet, i have to duramax and they are great, strong, and qeiut



I'm also a Master Tech with 30 years of experience. I've enjoyed my "Dodge Sucks" Cummins for 120k miles now and am looking forward to the next 240k miles.........

BTW: My Sucks makes 502hp & 1060 lb/ft at the wheels. What does YOUR Chevy do?


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## 97Stroker (Dec 12, 2007)

what is EFI live?? how much power??


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## stev (Dec 12, 2007)

97Stroker said:


> what is EFI live?? how much power??


[url[/url] www.efilive.com
I run my whole truck off my lap top.
How much power do you want?


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## Hi-tech Redneck (Dec 12, 2007)

Efi live is SICK! It is THE ticket for the d-maxes. The dmax is an awesome engine. I am just very accustomed to the inline motors. The only thing i personally don't like and the chevy is the IFS.


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## Hintz (Dec 12, 2007)

Hi-tech Redneck said:


> Efi live is SICK! It is THE ticket for the d-maxes. The dmax is an awesome engine. I am just very accustomed to the inline motors. The only thing i personally don't like and the chevy is the IFS.



same here im going w/ dodge just b/c of the solid front axle and I dont like the way chevy rides and for EFI live its sick but you can also screw your truck up good with it, if your not into all of the computer stuff and finding our own tunes go w/ PPE they make some serious power on DMAXS, and for 3rd gen. Cummins Smarty is King


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## pitbull (Dec 25, 2007)

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## Stalker (Dec 25, 2007)

Thanks Pitbull those where great.  I was already going to say Cummins before the videos. My dad has been a Diesel mechanic for the last 40 years and he said you cant get any better than Cummins for durability and longevity.


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## 97Stroker (Dec 25, 2007)

Cummins all the way. Nice vids Pitbull.


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## raedawg (Dec 27, 2007)

I like the Chevys, Dodges, and Fords...but I see more Powerstrokes on the road!  Not trying to stir the pot just an observation.   Must be a reason!


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## PHIL M (Dec 27, 2007)

Cool video's, but ya ll realize that the heavier truck is gonna drag the lighter truck. Its not necessarily about the horsepower. Its more about traction JMHO


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## BowShooter (Dec 27, 2007)

i was out west this summer montana and wyoming and all you will see are cummings.


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## pitbull (Dec 30, 2007)

Phil all those videos are equal matches except the last one where the ford is actualy heavier than the dodge.


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## Hi-tech Redneck (Dec 30, 2007)

raedawg said:


> I like the Chevys, Dodges, and Fords...but I see more Powerstrokes on the road!  Not trying to stir the pot just an observation.   Must be a reason!



REASON: the general public is ignorant or uninformed. take a look at all 3 engine bays. if something where to go wrong and you wrenched on your vehicle, which would you rather work on? when is the last time you seen a v-block farm tractor?


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## Gaddimo75 (Dec 30, 2007)

ANYTHING BUT A CAT! We have twelve trucks at work and 10 are CAT engines and they spend more time in the shop than on the road.


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## G Duck (Dec 30, 2007)

I have logged over 400k on two different powerstroke 7.3s, wish I had never sold the first one, It had over 250k on it. I still see it u and down the highway,It must have at least 350k on it by now. Still driving the 2002 psd. I love the cummins engine, just never been a Dodge fan. 
I would be interested to see if any of the Duramax guys had any reports of getting high milleage out of the motors.


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## Hi-tech Redneck (Dec 30, 2007)

G Duck said:


> I have logged over 400k on two different powerstroke 7.3s, wish I had never sold the first one, It had over 250k on it. I still see it u and down the highway,It must have at least 350k on it by now. Still driving the 2002 psd. I love the cummins engine, just never been a Dodge fan.
> I would be interested to see if any of the Duramax guys had any reports of getting high milleage out of the motors.



There are some HIGH mileage hotshotter, d-max guys on the diesel forums. I will take common rail over HEUI anyday.


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## G Duck (Dec 30, 2007)

Hi-tech Redneck said:


> There are some HIGH mileage hotshotter, d-max guys on the diesel forums. I will take common rail over HEUI anyday.



Guess Im not up on the terminology, I just know what I have (and a bunch of others) have gotten out of the 7.3s.
As far as the Tractor issue, I think it is a matter of torque than HP. All I tow is a dump trailer, 18ft enclosed, and the ocasional boat.  Sorry for the Hijack, I think the original question was the difference between Mopar and GM.


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## jwelch85 (Mar 19, 2008)

the 6.7cummins is a great engine so far as long as you work it and not baby it but that goes for most of them. a diesel is made to work. however the emmisons on the 6.7cummins is just fine as long as you dont bog/lag the enigne b/c if you do it starts to shoot up then you have problems. and you see most of the small car haulers is either a dodge or ford some chevy. thats is my .02 cents


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## TwoSeventy (Mar 19, 2008)

I have a 94 Cummins with 400,000 plus on it now with the same tranny. It still will get 23 mpg. We use it in our business. Wish I could afford a new one.


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## sewer hog (Mar 19, 2008)

who would want diapermax or the duramelt


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## oldironcollector (Mar 19, 2008)

Also a Master diesel tech, Food for thought. Ford uses an International engine that was designed for Ford, GM uses an Isuzu engine built for GM (with aluminum heads wheres that logic). and Dodge uses a B-series 5.9 that has been around since the 70's just updated. 

To sum it up everyone else had an engine built for their truck. Dodge went the other way and built a truck around a tried and proven engine. Kinda funny that you can get the B-series Cummins engine in Fords medium duty F-650 More of the F-650s are sold with Cummins  in them than the Powerstrokes, that holds a lot of weight for me, besides the fact that I have worked on them all and it's Cummins all the way for me.


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## sewer hog (Mar 20, 2008)

The dodge is actually the lighest of the bunch with ford being the heaviest that is with the diesels.


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