# reasons not to dog hunt



## HOG-HEAD (Dec 16, 2012)

This is not a stillhunter bashing thread , just got a question for yall..I asked a stillhunter yesterday to come join us for the rest of the day on sat and see what doghunting was all about and he politely declined...the reason was , he didn't like doggin beacause it made the deer so scared and nervous and he didn't like scaring them...I jokingly stated that atleast we gave them a chance and let them know we were coming...no smile at all....so what's the strangest reason you ever heard not to doghunt


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## respro (Dec 16, 2012)

Not fair, not sporting, too easy, torturing the deer, etc.
I agree it's not fair. It's extra hard to kill a deer running flat out! To the too easy crowd I challenge them to hit that deer running flat out and still say it's too easy. I bet the dogs feel tortured when they can't catch that doe after she gave em the old slip! I also agree that it's not sporting. Its much more than that.


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## Cmcharles (Dec 16, 2012)

Not wanting to spend my evening trying to catch a bunch of lost dogs


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## brandonsc (Dec 16, 2012)

whats the differance between running rabbits with dogs and running deer with dogs? or coyotes running deer?  I've got to dog hunt 3 times this year, this is my first year dog hunting and i love it, i recommend everyone try it once before they say they dont like it or they start to bashing it because its not how they like to hunt


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## GA DAWG (Dec 16, 2012)

If a dog will strike it and bark or tree it. I like it. Only problem Id have is letting small bucks go but they are plenty of places I can do that. Never been deer dogging but will one day!


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## DogHunter4Life (Dec 16, 2012)

i've always like the "its too easy and the deer dont have a chance"...yeah right!


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## Boar Buster (Dec 16, 2012)

Dog hunting is a sport the whole family can enjoy. I have been doing it with my family for over 30 years and still love every minute of it. I agree with GA DAWG if you can hunt it with a dog then load em up and lets go huntin.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 16, 2012)

We used to Quail hunt and the dogs would poop in our trunk. That and having to feed them every day for the whole year just to hunt a few months.


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## HOG-HEAD (Dec 17, 2012)

How about the ole---I don't want to eat a deer that's been run with dogs


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## Dreamer69 (Dec 17, 2012)

Never had a problem not wanting to run dogs. If you never tried it dont say anything!!!!!! Meat the same taste. Dont deer hunt anymore due to moving to the northern zone. I miss it dearly.. It was a family thing for my family. I had dogs and we looked forward to loading the dogs on Saturday and holidays.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Dec 17, 2012)

I love dog hunting...but it sure does peeve me when I'm still hunting and someones dogs from several properties over run thru my hunt


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## grouper throat (Dec 17, 2012)

Burns too much gas, meat is tough from being ran hard, not enough skill, the bucks are small, dogs hard to catch, I can't shoot quickly, it's a young man's sport, etc.


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## rvick (Dec 17, 2012)

every still hunter thinks that the dogs run every deer in the county into the next county & they never come back


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## Wild Turkey (Dec 17, 2012)

I used to like doghuntin but now its illegal to shoot dogs.
Really; To each his own and I will join in on a deer drive with dogs if invited to do so. It's huntin and thats what I like.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 17, 2012)

I've never been on a dog deer hunt, I'd like to try it some time. I've spent half my life running coonhounds, bear hounds, and beagles, loved every minute of it.


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## bluemarlin (Dec 17, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> We used to Quail hunt and the dogs would poop in our trunk. That and having to feed them every day for the whole year just to hunt a few months.



Oh my...


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## nkbigdog (Dec 17, 2012)

In my Senior Yrs now, thinking back to watching the Labs go after ducks, dove and the dogs working Quail and Ring Necks it is great watch as they work..Look forward to seeing the excitement of Deer and Hog hunts..I can take any piece of meat almost and make it taste great!!! And I met the O"Captain and his Crew and the Mighty Maximus Relaximus on the fresh water fishing forum and that is one Carp Licking Hound!


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## SCDOGHUNTER (Dec 17, 2012)

The only way i hunt is with dogs...deer,hogs,coons and squirrel...i couldnt half care if i ever kill another deer,50 percent of my enjoyment comes from training and watching my dogs click and the other 120 percent is seeing kids out there enjoying it and killing their first deer in front of hounds...not worried about the math...just love it


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## hancock husler (Dec 17, 2012)

I have never been. Rabbit hunted a lot as a kid but never ran deer for the intention of shooting a deer. You guys make is sound a lot of fun. Maybe one day I will get the chance .


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## Troy (Dec 17, 2012)

My favorites have always been "Its too easy" or it's not fair to the deer... 

If its too easy, I must really suck at it!


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## Chuck Terry (Dec 18, 2012)

Back when I did it as a teenager, it was a social event.   It began with a good homecooked breakfast and a blessing that normally included a request for a safe hunt. There were usually about 35 of us and with about 20 standers and the rest handling dogs or just riding in their pick-up to assist cutting off the dogs that slipped through.  The day ended with a cook-out/party of some sort and liquid refreshment for some.  I have very fond memories of those hunts - especially the fellowship.  On average, we killed 5 or 6 deer.   Lots slipped out ahead through a gap or went in the totally opposite direction from the intended drive.   I often thought if we had scattered out on the same property in stands how many more we would have killed.   Of course, that would not have been nearly as enjoyable!


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## Dreamer69 (Dec 18, 2012)

Chuck Terry said:


> Back when I did it as a teenager, it was a social event.   It began with a good homecooked breakfast and a blessing that normally included a request for a safe hunt. There were usually about 35 of us and with about 20 standers and the rest handling dogs or just riding in their pick-up to assist cutting off the dogs that slipped through.  The day ended with a cook-out/party of some sort and liquid refreshment for some.  I have very fond memories of those hunts - especially the fellowship.  On average, we killed 5 or 6 deer.   Lots slipped out ahead through a gap or went in the totally opposite direction from the intended drive.   I often thought if we had scattered out on the same property in stands how many more we would have killed.   Of course, that would not have been nearly as enjoyable!



Well said Chuck, thats how I remember my days of dog hunting. Plus the club meeting up once a month during the summer to have cookouts and talk about the last year hunts and memories. Those were the good ole days. Reading some of these posts really making me laugh.  A lot of folks just dont know.  I will leave it at that.  Hog head great starting post on this topic.


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## bullsprig1100 (Dec 18, 2012)

I dont like deer doggin' anymore cause my wife said so!!!.....LOL....Just kiddin!


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## flhunter82 (Dec 18, 2012)

Still hunters are only about killing deer. To be honest I would rather just train pups year round. Its all about my dogs for me. I have folks that hunt with me that don't have dogs, You can tell they are only there to kill a deer and never say much about the dogs. It kinda bothers me. But oh well, too each his own. They need to stop worrying about which way is the right way to hunt and all get on the same team. We are about to lose our second ammendment right!


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## Gaducker (Dec 19, 2012)

When I was a kid in Stewart co I remember the most fun I had was tearing up trucks trying to cut the dogs off. We as a group tore up a whole lot of trucks from the time I was 6 or 7 up until i was 16.  After that I had other things more important to do.


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## Flaustin1 (Dec 20, 2012)

Im a still hunter but i have dog hunted 4 times before.  I absolutely love it.  If i were closer to the southern zone, id dog hunt all the time.  Only problem i have with it is getting the dogs up at the end of the run.  Since its illegal to have an open container in a vehicle,  it makes all that riding and tracking kinda boring.


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## DogHunter4Life (Dec 20, 2012)

Flaustin1 said:


> Im a still hunter but i have dog hunted 4 times before.  I absolutely love it.  If i were closer to the southern zone, id dog hunt all the time.  Only problem i have with it is getting the dogs up at the end of the run.  _Since its illegal to have an open container in a vehicle,  it makes all that riding and tracking kinda boring_.




the southern boys way of "thanking" is nothing is illegal, unless you get caught!!


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## Flaustin1 (Dec 20, 2012)

well i like the way your thinkin.


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## The mtn man (Dec 20, 2012)

I hunt everything with dogs except deer, only reason its illegal, afraid I will get caught lol, wish I could deer hunt with dogs, would be a blast.


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## eWarren19842008 (Dec 27, 2012)

I always like the "its too easy" or "its not fair to the deer". My question to them is have you ever tried to shoot a running deer? The deer stands a better chance running than gunnin him down sittin over a corn pile...yesterday we run a good buck through 8 blocks, across 9dirt roads, & across US HWY 441 & he aint dead yet..not fair to the deer...I THINK NOT! Lol


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## egomaniac247 (Jan 6, 2013)

I moved down to Georgia from Virginia in 2010.  I was shocked and in disbelief that hunting with dogs wasn't allowed in many places in Georgia.

I grew up with running dogs and it never dawned on me at all that it would be any more or less "ethical" than still-hunting.  

I never figured that I'd go further south and find it to be against the law.


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## bfriendly (Jan 6, 2013)

I dont have a dog............and my cats wont chase anything


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## DOG WATER (Jan 6, 2013)

The dogs might hurt the deer....  I dont want to eat a deer dogs have been chasing or eating on...  YEA RIGHT..


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## StikR (Jan 6, 2013)

My #1 reason is because after getting up at 4am, loading dogs, driving an hour, hunting hard until dark, catching dogs for an hour or so, driving an hour home, cleaning kennels and feeding the dogs I walk in the door not worth 2 cents to my VERY understanding wife.  I don't know what it is, but a day of dog hunting will sure wear your backside out!  I can come home and go straight to bed as early as 8pm....IF she lets me get away with it.


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## Lester7009 (Jan 6, 2013)

How do you stop dogs from running Deer. At farm saturday herd dogs barking stood still and waited then came a Buck stopped in front of us tonge hanging out breathing hard. deer season closed about two weeks ago. have heard this before and seen before. Am very concerned that this is going on daily. How many deer is this hurting or killing ?


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## StikR (Jan 6, 2013)

hurting=zero, killing=zero


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## bull0ne (Jan 11, 2013)

Many people who are dead set against dog hunting for deer are too jealous, selfish, and self absorbed to partake in a team sport where others might be in on more action than they are.  If ya ant be a team player, know how to interact with others with respect and apply social polish, ya aint got no business in a dog club. As you'll get checked up quick when the attitude flares up. 

Many cant handle it when they feel they've been upstaged by someone else doing all the shooting and can't be happy for the lucky hunter who pulled the trigger when they don't see anything come past them on any particular day.  

Slob hunters have also tainted what would have been an accepting mindset other hunters harbor end regarding deer dogging.  Purposely turning out on posted parcels of land, road shooting, unsafe driving past people's houses, disrupting school bus routes by blocking roads with trucks, ect. Are just a few ways that the image of a dog hunter in general suffers.  Once people over learn bout slob hunters, and lump everyone in a stereotype, the image of a dogger is forever damaged. 

I once got canned at a job interview when I announced I was a dog hunter. I saw the guys expression change immediately. I knew I was sunk. Judged because of the actions of slobs who had ran over this guys rights and robbed him of the joy of his still hunting. Briefly tried to explain my point, but saw it was of no use. Made me sick at the time, yet was a good education in how to be mindful of how one is viewed when such a visible form of hunting is enjoyed.  

Those who don't know better think the deer diggers are eradicating the herd. Sure, my past club killed bout 250 deer per season. Divide that out across 10,000 acres, 50 members, plus visitors .........and I promise you we didn't lower the overall population more than it would recover once the fawns dropped the next spring.  We, collectively, could have killed more far deer still hunting vs dogging. It was simply a matter of choice.

Slob dog hunters are the prime reason that dog hunting opportunities are limited, and will be phased out even more as time goes onward. It's not socially accepted in many circles now. Judged for merely having a dog box in your truck.  All because a few knuckle draggers with a sense of entitlement to do as they please, where they please, have muddied the waters past the point of ever clearing up for those who's rights were violated. 

Think about what you're doing out there and how the public views your actions. Don't be your own worst enemy, and further tarnish the image off this version of hunting that's dying out slowly but surely. 

JMO.......


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## simpleman30 (Jan 11, 2013)

good post, Bull0ne.  agree 100%.


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## Dog Hunter (Jan 11, 2013)

BullOne.  Very good post.  'Dog Hunters' are our own worst enemy.  I use 'Dog Hunters' very loosely.   The bad is hurting the good ones for sure.


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## JustUs4All (Jan 11, 2013)

Excellent post bullOne.  Selfish people who do not respect the rights of others have been the cause of lots of problems for all sportsmen.  This is certainly true for deer dogging.


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## flhunter82 (Jan 11, 2013)

I am grateful to live in a town where everyone Hunts with dogs. A truck without a dog box in Crawfordville fl just looks out of place. In our town the "slobs" of dog hunting really are slobs. It seems they are the more white trash folks in our community that don't respect other people. But when you have no respect for your self or your yard or your vehicle, How can you respect others? I had one of them come up to me this season with a button buck folded up in his tool box. He was bragging about it and talking about the way he was just going to throw it out. The only good thing about someone with illegal game in there truck is, You can beat the leaving - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - out of them and they can't call the cops! He found that out the hard way.


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## turtlebug (Jan 19, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> Many people who are dead set against dog hunting for deer are too jealous, selfish, and self absorbed to partake in a team sport where others might be in on more action than they are.  If ya ant be a team player, know how to interact with others with respect and apply social polish, ya aint got no business in a dog club. As you'll get checked up quick when the attitude flares up.
> 
> Many cant handle it when they feel they've been upstaged by someone else doing all the shooting and can't be happy for the lucky hunter who pulled the trigger when they don't see anything come past them on any particular day.
> 
> ...



Man, when I first started reading your post, I could feel my blood pressure skyrocketing. Then I got to the red highlighted part and your post turned around for me and made a WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. 

I've never been on a deer hunt with dogs, never really wanted to, I like to walk, spot and stalk, sit or whatnot. I never had an opinion about dog hunters until two years ago and all I can say is it hasn't been a good opinion and for good reason. Then I read your post and realized that I'm just having to put up with one of those sorry slobs you're talking about. 

Scouting my property for tracks, putting his dogs out on a county road and letting them run wherever, catching pics of his dogs running deer through my food plots, his tearing up the roads with his back and forth trying to keep up with his dogs. I haven't hunted one single day in two years that this guy's dogs or his truck didn't break the peace and quiet that I go to the woods seeking. It's not the deer, the deer are there, it's the constant disruptions and the arrogance he emits. He has NO consideration for anyone else hunting around him and him tearing up the roads to the point that I could barely make it to my gate on anything other than my Rancher, just made my blood boil this year. It's always a lovely morning when he honks his horn repeatedly to signal his partner that the dogs are on a deer. 

Your post made me think for a second. Half of the crap that he pulls, isn't, or shouldn't be the norm I'm assuming.  Basically, I guess we're dealing with a slob.


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## flhunter82 (Jan 19, 2013)

Come on now, you know you want to run dogs. Thats why you are on the deer dog forum. Your neighbor sounds like a jack wagon.


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## rawolfee (Jan 20, 2013)

I guess I have only run into the "slob hunters" around my parts.  I caught some fellas dog hunting from the road about 300 yards from my house and in between my hunting land.  They let their dogs out on the next road over and run them through our property.  I had to put a small spike out of his misery because he had broke both back legs jumping a ditch.  He had buck shot in his rear too.  I have no use for someone that does not respect the deer they hunt or other people's land.  I actually think it might be fun to hunt behind a dog if done the right way, but these guys are really giving dog hunters a bad name.  I had to call DNR out the last 3 weekends of the season on the same group.  Apparently they think it's their right to hunt where ever they want.  They are not liked by most hunters in my neck of the woods


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## bull0ne (Jan 21, 2013)

turtlebug said:


> Man, when I first started reading your post, I could feel my blood pressure skyrocketing. Then I got to the red highlighted part and your post turned around for me and made a WHOLE LOT OF SENSE.
> 
> I've never been on a deer hunt with dogs, never really wanted to, I like to walk, spot and stalk, sit or whatnot. I never had an opinion about dog hunters until two years ago and all I can say is it hasn't been a good opinion and for good reason. Then I read your post and realized that I'm just having to put up with one of those sorry slobs you're talking about.
> 
> ...



Sorry that your hunting is repeatedly affected in such a negative manner by the illegal activities of a slob poacher. 

It's an injustice to us all, in one way or another, when such things go. Best wishes on getting this issue sorted in the near future.


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## grouper throat (Jan 21, 2013)

I am not taking up for these people but I do feel a few points need to be made. We can legally hunt on every dirt county road in our lease and there's quite a few. All are posted 'hunting legal in right of way' which could be different than ga though. 

The noise and tore up roads is just the way it is, different strokes for different folks. I dislike it when im bow hunting and they bay up a hog or during deer dog training season around me but i know its all legal. 

Roads are torn up much worse from logging than with a few trucks spinning on them cutting dogs off. I would think a 4wd is standard for the woods anyway.


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## skippygus73 (Jan 22, 2013)

I have never been a dogger nor do I ever want to.  I grew up hunting deer in East Texas where it was illegal to hunt with dogs.  I can say that it was a lot easier to hunt deer there.  Now it may be that our deer population was higher but I also think that they weren't as spooked and felt more comfortable in the daylight.  There were times where being in the stand more than 30 mins before you killed a deer was a bad day.  Now saying that, I can see that using dogs in these woods would help you and you won't hear me bashing those that do use them.  If the collective that you are a part of are in favor of it, that is your prerogative and I don't see how it is in my place to stop you, but I do expect that you respect my position.


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## Dog Hunter (Jan 22, 2013)

grouper throat said:


> IWe can legally hunt on every dirt county road in our lease and there's quite a few. All are posted 'hunting legal in right of way' which could be different than ga though.
> .


Ga or Fla?  Please explain how this is possible if GA.


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## grouper throat (Jan 22, 2013)

Florida. County agreed to maintain main logging roads still owned by the timber company. Landowner built them first and wanted to not infringe on our rights as we are the main traffic. I'll get a pic of one of the signs soon.


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## swamp hunter (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm a Still Hunter on a Dog Club. I Like hearin Ole blue coming my way. Sure Livens up a boring sit in the stand . But my club is Huge, And you can Hunt 90 % of the Roads.Doggers Paradise for sure .
And I ain't got to worry bout Ya'll sitting in my Stands . I'm Good .
Up in Blackwater Forest in the Fla . Panhandle it,s County Roads and the Doggers ain,t so nice . Doing Turnouts in your Back Fields , Throwing out Trash where they sit and eat Lunch under the Big Oaks  and such.
 I sure am gettin Tired of Defending Dog Huntin to them Folks that I Hunt with up there  Specially since I'm not a Dog Hunter....
 Up there it's almost like a You againt Us kinda thing.
On My club everybodys just havin a good time.
I Like Southern Traditions , And Dog Huntin is one of them.


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## grouper throat (Jan 26, 2013)

We all seem to get along much better than others though swamp hunter. I think it was united once a lot of the doggers started BP and archery hunting a decade ago. My generation normally does both and respects each one. Even though its full legal, I'll move to a different block to run a deer if someone is in a stand near where we want to turn out. It's just common respect and its certainly not like there's a shortage of land to hunt.


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## flhunter82 (Jan 29, 2013)

Swamp hunter, I believe the difference is that you are on a lease and the others are on public land. I hunt both and I can see a huge difference. People on a lease are serious enough about hunting and pay a lot of money and generally respect where they hunt. Not all, but a good portion of the forestry hunters feel like these woods are owed to them and people built the houses to close to the forest. Or my favorite "why would you move so close and not expect dogs in your yard"? I am battling with a crew right now about dumping on my place and I am a 100% dog man. They are gonna get it shut down, but what do they care. They have been hunting there for 30-40 years and are just too comfortable. 2 teenagers killed 17 does in front of dogs and not once were they checked. People need to wake up and realize that we are not on the winning side of this battle and we could lose this PRIVILEGE like many places all ready have.


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## skeeter1 (Jan 29, 2013)

DogHunter4Life said:


> the southern boys way of "thanking" is nothing is illegal, unless you get caught!!



That kinda southern boy. Thankin got us permitted to a 1000 acres lol!!  But. 20 years ago I was guilty as sin I was as Bush wackin drunk idiot turn out where ever but back then around your home nobody cared about your dog's run in through or on there land cause what w as still huntin if you deer hunted in the south it was with a dog cause that was the way it had bee n done for 400 years an that fact is from the dnr regulation page folks might not want you or me on there land but they would kill Deer in front of your dog's and the dog's came home when they was tried and they would brag . On your dog's and the deer they killed. At the feed and seed . Or the local grub house  but man country ain't even c country. No more


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## grouper throat (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey skeeter my old man told me back in the late 70s he'd never even seen a person sittin in a stand to hunt, if it was deer hunting in south ga it was dogging. They ran all over the place and no one cared. The neighbors would come out and listen on their porch to your dogs run a good fox race and thank you for killing a fox bothering their chickens or deer eating their crops. We live in a totally different world now.


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## skeeter1 (Feb 2, 2013)

yea i know its  an ever changin world and most folks change with it except a  few ole hold outs  ,  i guess  i am just an  ole  hold out cause i am gonna keep on bein  an  ole hounds man long after its illegal if it comes to that and   if i live


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## skeeter1 (Feb 2, 2013)

the real reason dog huntin is really goin out  cause  it   ain't the way micheal waddell  does it  or any other  huntin show  or what ever there aint no money  in  it  every thing  they sell at bass pro shops  you dont need for dog huntin except  buck shot !!!! never seen  a deer dog huntin video  in my life unless it was home made

i mean  i seen a bag of deer potty at wally world and  thought  really i mean really people buy this really !!!


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## JustUs4All (Feb 2, 2013)

Up here hound hunting of any kind has been slowed by the change in the use of the land.  Little of the land is being farmed any more and more and more is being cut up into smaller holdings with houses on it.


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## quicktrack72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Amen to what skeeter just said. There is no money in dog hunting for television stations, but if someone was to try to get them to film a season of it i think we would be surprised at how many people would start following it and wanting to do it more. Look at swamp people


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## skeeter1 (Feb 2, 2013)

JustUs4All said:


> Up here hound hunting of any kind has been slowed by the change in the use of the land.  Little of the land is being farmed any more and more and more is being cut up into smaller holdings with houses on it.



and that would  be reason  # 2 but if there was money in it  think of how much land  would be set aside   to do it  other than timber land !!!
and it  ain't house parks that  land deal started when golf courses took over !!


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## turtlebug (Apr 13, 2013)

grouper throat said:


> I am not taking up for these people but I do feel a few points need to be made. We can legally hunt on every dirt county road in our lease and there's quite a few. All are posted 'hunting legal in right of way' which could be different than ga though.
> 
> The noise and tore up roads is just the way it is, different strokes for different folks. I dislike it when im bow hunting and they bay up a hog or during deer dog training season around me but i know its all legal.
> 
> Roads are torn up much worse from logging than with a few trucks spinning on them cutting dogs off. I would think a 4wd is standard for the woods anyway.




Just revisted this thread and read your post. 

The red is laughable to me because these are county maintained roads that people live on. Not logging roads or private club roads. So no, a 4X4 is not standard for hunting.


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## grouper throat (Apr 15, 2013)

County maintained are fine as they're built with swales or 6x6' ditches and built up 10'. Population is non-existant but they are county mantained because they offer public river access and WMA access. When I say hunting I mean doggin, not driving back and forth to a tree stand (doggin forum here).

I'm talking 50-100,000 acre tracts not a few hundred acres needed to still hunt. You won't make it in a 2wd anywhere here!


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## Jay Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Every still hunter wil sing& moan about dogs untill they put a nice buck in front of them, then oh well dogs are not that bad. I have never shot a deer in front of a dog, but deer hunters had better be carefull. Devide & counquer.


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## FredRog72 (Apr 18, 2013)

I've never had very good dealings with the dog runners. Where I'm from, they never respected private property, they hunted from public roads and had no problem shooting deer in your front yard. I have no problem with the actual sport of running dogs but as someone else already said. The few bad ones have made a bad name for all.


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## WELLS8230 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wuff wuff!


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## The Fever (Apr 19, 2013)

I have gone on a dog hunt and I can see the attraction but as an ecology major I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it.


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## Mako22 (Apr 19, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it.



Facts with links please. BTW when I was in college I came across all kinds of environmental garbage that was pure lies as well.


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## Vernon Holt (Apr 19, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I have gone on a dog hunt and I can see the attraction but *as an ecology major I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it*.


 
Your case against "dog hunting" might have some merit if you would outline for us some of the "effects on the herd" as documented in your "many papers."

I lived, worked, and hound-hunted in the adjoining coastal county of McIntosh for some 35 years. I learned from talking with older men, many of whom were hunting companions, that: (1) This area of GA was _never_ without a good population of Whitetail Deer.
(2). Hound hunting has been a way of life there since Coastal GA was settled by the English in the 1750's. We are talking about 250+ years of "dog-hunting", with virtually all of it being "either sex" or "brown is down" as the general practice.

If there is any "adverse effect upon the herd" resulting from dog-hunting, how could the above be the case?? As an Ecology major, I am looking forward to seeing your response.  Thanks.


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## Mako22 (Apr 20, 2013)

Vernon Holt said:


> Your case against "dog hunting" might have some merit if you would outline for us some of the "effects on the herd" as documented in your "many papers."
> 
> I lived, worked, and hound-hunted in the adjoining coastal county of McIntosh for some 35 years. I learned from talking with older men, many of whom were hunting companions, that: (1) This area of GA was _never_ without a good population of Whitetail Deer.
> (2). Hound hunting has been a way of life there since Coastal GA was settled by the English in the 1750's. We are talking about 250+ years of "dog-hunting", with virtually all of it being "either sex" or "brown is down" as the general practice.
> ...



Don't hold your breath waiting on him to answer.


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## Throwback (Apr 20, 2013)

T


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## flatheadfisherman (Apr 22, 2013)

Growing up in West Virginia, I remember a lot of wild dogs roamed the woods. Moving down here, I was surprised to learn that dogs were used for hunting deer. I went a few times with a friend of mine 20 years ago to Fargo, Ga and it was great. Nothing like the sound of dogs running through the woods carrying on. Hunt the morning, vension sandwiches for lunch, hunt the afternoon. Shame so many people are against this type of hunting.


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## Vernon Holt (Apr 22, 2013)

*Reasons Not to Dog Hunt Whitetails*



The Fever said:


> "*I have gone on a dog hunt and I can see the attraction but as an ecology major I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it"*.


 
The Fever: You seem not inclined to want to talk about the Ecology of hunting deer by the use of hounds.

Lets try a different approach: With your being high on Ecology, and at the same time being high on duck hunting, how about outlining for us the total effect that decoying and calling has upon the waterfowl population?? This might prove to be easier for you, and might lead to your leaving your decoys and calls at home.


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## skeeter1 (Apr 22, 2013)

This this goes back to the dogs run all  the deer 
Off. but yet we killed over 110 deer this past season and
no less than 70 a year for the past 30 years onnow less than 4000 acres


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## The Fever (Apr 23, 2013)

Vernon Holt said:


> The Fever: You seem not inclined to want to talk about the Ecology of hunting deer by the use of hounds.
> 
> Lets try a different approach: With your being high on Ecology, and at the same time being high on duck hunting, how about outlining for us the total effect that decoying and calling has upon the waterfowl population?? This might prove to be easier for you, and might lead to your leaving your decoys and calls at home.



Since you have shown your age it is mighty sad that you assume because I haven't responded that its because I have avoided it. I currently am 2 weeks from the end of the semester and forgive me that I have put something as petty and trivial as a debate of a "hobby" on the back burner. The email from another member coming in told me that yall were all too eager awaiting my response. Clearly you have to use a dog to kill a deer because if you had to sit and be patient I suspect you wouldn't do as well. Now that the issue of my untimely response is handled lets assess this. 

My decoys lay stagnant in the water and any movement that they do show reflect the wind movements pushing against them or the pull of a jerk cord that I inflict upon the string. The duck call that I use, when I seldom use it, attract the eyes of the duck by first stimulating its ear drum. These combined efforts do nothing that normally decoying birds would find in the wild. In other words, no abnormal impact. Now before you suggest that the stress inflicted upon the duck as we shoot at it and it flies off first subtract the birds that are dead. They feel no effect. The remaining birds, if there are many, fly off with the stress of the moment. This ends their stress. They also possess the choice to fly into my spread and many times they do not. They are not chased by dogs for hundreds of yards before they are shot at and hopefully killed. If they are not killed they are chased further by the dogs until either the hunter catches them(which many times they don't get them all) or the dogs wear out. MY stress on ducks is limited to a few moments. Yours sir is hours on end. For the record my decoys and call for the most part stay at home. If I take them its for the sake of throwing them out, I hunt wood ducks. You hunt the hole they want, they don't hunt decoys like a mallard. I feel that was a near ball park comparison at best. 

In regards to the papers I can provide those at a later time. I wrote the papers they were used for in my animal behavior class as a sophomore. They are on my old laptop and I will have to pull it out and locate them. I will gladly post them and when I do, and send you a personal copy. I am sorry I let you down with such an untimely response. Ill do better in the future.

In regards to asking how could it be a sustainable tradition, the population has increased that hunts, and technology has changed. Add to that a very liberal limit of 12 deer and I think we can all see how this could lead to a down turn in deer population. No? Go to the DNR's homepage and read its reports on the attempt to reduce doe days. The population is declining over the years and by almost one third. There is a fact for you since you seem so inclined to want facts.  

I am back to the books. I will speak will yall soon as I can get a break and pull up that laptop. God bless and good luck next season!


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## The Fever (Apr 23, 2013)

skeeter1 said:


> This this goes back to the dogs run all  the deer
> Off. but yet we killed over 110 deer this past season and
> no less than 70 a year for the past 30 years onnow less than 4000 acres



No they don't run off the deer. Their habits change and they are FAR more wary of humans. People just assume they leave.


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## The Fever (Apr 23, 2013)

Woodsman69 said:


> Facts with links please. BTW when I was in college I came across all kinds of environmental garbage that was pure lies as well.



Dude I agree. The amount of garbage that is out there is astounding. However the papers if I remember correctly were published by universities and were reviewed by panels. They could not have been off by much.


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## Throwback (Apr 23, 2013)

The Fever said:


> However the papers if I remember correctly were published by universities and were reviewed by panels. They could not have been off by much.





T


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## Troy (Apr 24, 2013)

The Fever said:


> Dude I agree. The amount of garbage that is out there is astounding. However the papers if I remember correctly were published by universities and were reviewed by panels. They could not have been off by much.



Well that does it... I'm convinced


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## JustUs4All (Apr 24, 2013)

The Fever said:


> Dude I agree. The amount of garbage that is out there is astounding. However the papers if I remember correctly were published by universities and were reviewed by panels. They could not have been off by much.




Universities once taught that the earth was flat and that it was a good idea to remove blood from a sick man.


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## HuntHardDieHarder (Apr 25, 2013)

STILL hunt DOG hunt i just love to Hunt


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## Vernon Holt (Apr 25, 2013)

*Reasons Not to Dog Hunt*

The Fever:  I'm not sure what my age has to do with this subject, but perhaps I am overlooking something.

You are to be commended for establishing firm priorities in your busy life.  Sorry if I appeared over-anxious to get a response from you.  There is a lesson to be learned from this exchange.  Any time one stakes out a firm position, one should be prepared to defend or clarify that position with facts and logic.  You have failed, for reasons not clear, to provide any rationale as to why dog hunting has an adverse effect on Whitetail population.

As an afterthought, there appears to be an air of mystery surrounding the "many papers" which relate to the subject at hand.  You first refer to them this way: "_I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd_".  You then refer to the same papers in this way: "_I wrote the papers they were used for my animal behavior class".  _

If the latter is true, then the "papers" were no more than an essay in which you expressed your observations and opinions.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> In regards to the papers I can provide those at a later time. I wrote the papers they were used for in my animal behavior class as a sophomore. They are on my old laptop and I will have to pull it out and locate them. I will gladly post them and when I do, and send you a personal copy. I am sorry I let you down with such an untimely response. Ill do better in the future.
> 
> In regards to asking how could it be a sustainable tradition, the population has increased that hunts, and technology has changed. Add to that a very liberal limit of 12 deer and I think we can all see how this could lead to a down turn in deer population. No? Go to the DNR's homepage and read its reports on the attempt to reduce doe days. The population is declining over the years and by almost one third. There is a fact for you since you seem so inclined to want facts.
> 
> I am back to the books. I will speak will yall soon as I can get a break and pull up that laptop. God bless and good luck next season!



You wrote the papers so they are nothing but an opinion.  

So because the hunting population increased, bag limits increased and doe days increased.  It is the fault of the dog hunter?

Wow is the only thing that can be said.


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## flhunter82 (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I have gone on a dog hunt and I can see the attraction but as an ecology major I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it.


Lord help us all if this is the opinion of the biologist! You must be another one of those "If you don't hunt my way, its the wrong way" type folks. You know its ok if you don't want to run dogs, but why don't you keep your mouth shut and stick to climbing in trees. Its people like you that make sure you voice your negative opinion and try to get dog hunting taken from us. If they do ban dog hunting because of people like you, guess what. I am gonna have nothing better to do than turn loose 30 head of dogs across your precious food plot!


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Vernon Holt said:


> The Fever:  I'm not sure what my age has to do with this subject, but perhaps I am overlooking something.
> 
> You are to be commended for establishing firm priorities in your busy life.  Sorry if I appeared over-anxious to get a response from you.  There is a lesson to be learned from this exchange.  Any time one stakes out a firm position, one should be prepared to defend or clarify that position with facts and logic.  You have failed, for reasons not clear, to provide any rationale as to why dog hunting has an adverse effect on Whitetail population.
> 
> ...



Let me clarify. I used the universities papers for the papers I submitted in my animal behavior class. I agree, I have failed to submit those papers and that is a valid point. As stated before let me finish finals week then we will battle it out logically with whatever means we can find. As to age I apologize I took that a bit too far. I felt as if you were attacking my stance's legitimacy due to a delay in my response. I was trying to imply that at a man 35 years in age  that patience would be second nature. Once again, my apologies. 

flhunter82 I am sorry that you think that I only support other peoples way of hunting deer. I do not think any one way should be used for anything. If you want to dog hunt, then do so. It is legal after all. I hope all biologists use factual information in their decisions, and I do not know why you would want one to make decisions on anything else? Its also rather sad that if people were against something that you would respond by trespassing/harassment of those people. That is the logic that all problems should be handled with ?  Also by your logic, only positive things should be highlighted in public circles, as to not be a negative nancy? That sure seems like a good idea. Ignore the bad, only talk about the good. C'mon man. Look below, I have supported you as well as debated against. 

Dog Hunter I have read your comment several times and I am confused. I think perhaps you got what you meant backwards. I am not blaming the down turn in the herd JUST on the dog hunters. I think there are many reasons for their down turn. However consider this. If dog hunting provided an abnormal stress on deer, and the population was declining, wouldn't you assume this to be a stress that would need to be limited, or possibly removed until the population stabilized? I personally think we have too liberal of a bag limit. I also think dog hunters kill more deer than still hunters.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

I am on my lunch break at school and I decided to try and log in on my laptop and see if I could find those papers online again. This conversation has distracted me from my studies and I wanted to find some closure so my mind had no other excuse not to focus lol. 

I have found that I can not log into the Georgia university website for an issue with my account. So I went to google scholar and with interesting results. The papers I searched for are not located inside their data base. I have found three that I think yall will find interesting. I do not wish to pay for them but if you read the abstract of these "papers of mass lies and deceit to the public" you will find that I have found two in your favor! Does that still make them lies I wonder?

Anyways look at this! 
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=841621
This is a link of radio collared deer study that showed little to no change in the home range of the deer. You don't actually push deer away from land! Use this paper if you wish to squash your buddies in an argument.

Again! the same thing!
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3799776?uid=3739616&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102097106711

This is not a negative paper. In fact it is one that argues AGAINST my original point! However I would like it to be noted that it clearly states that no deer health was affected through the hunts, but it DOES state that deer hunters are far more likely to harvest deer. This should be considered greatly when thinking about harvest limits! Kinda ties into the debate on if it is a sustainable tradition. I think there are still hunting aspects to inspect and change but this is interesting. If you used simple limited logic you could argue that dog hunters are responsible for 2 times the deer harvested then still hunters. All things constant and remaining equal.  
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3809238?uid=3739616&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102097106711

Mr. Holt I am going to look for those papers soon and see how they stack up against these in data and logic and I will post them so you can do so as well. I think this is shaping up to be an interesting debate.

Note: look at the areas of study


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it.





The Fever said:


> In regards to asking how could it be a sustainable tradition, the population has increased that hunts, and technology has changed. Add to that a very liberal limit of 12 deer and I think we can all see how this could lead to a down turn in deer population. No? Go to the DNR's homepage and read its reports on the attempt to reduce doe days. The population is declining over the years and by almost one third. There is a fact for you since you seem so inclined to want facts.
> 
> :



So are this not issues that these so called papers stated?  You haven't said anything but dog hunting is effecting the herd.

Just post the papers.  If they were so readily available, a quick internet search would find tons of info.  Or I should say facts.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

Despite the release of >200 dogshunt, controlled dog hunting had no apparent
long-term effect on female deer movements

This is a quote from one of your sources.  Actually it is the first sentence in the discussion section.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> So are this not issues that these so called papers stated?  You haven't said anything but dog hunting is effecting the herd.
> 
> Just post the papers.  If they were so readily available, a quick internet search would find tons of info.  Or I should say facts.



Read what I posted again. You are not listening. They aren't readily available. Each search engine has limited capabilities. The university system has a far larger bank of papers. It wont let me log in.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> However consider this. If dog hunting provided an abnormal stress on deer, and the population was declining, wouldn't you assume this to be a stress that would need to be limited, or possibly removed until the population stabilized? I personally think we have too liberal of a bag limit. I also think dog hunters kill more deer than still hunters.



So now we need to remove any and all abnormal stress?  Or at least limit them.  No four wheelers, car horns, truck traffic, scouting, camera flashes, I could go on and on.  IMO, That is crazy.  

Once again, you point to and point to only dog hunting as being the cause of a decreasing population.  
Bag limits, seasons, number of hunters, natural predators, cars, etc.  You never once mentioned.  

You think and Is.  Opinons.  Just say it, you are against dog hunting.  Period.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> Despite the release of >200 dogshunt, controlled dog hunting had no apparent
> long-term effect on female deer movements
> 
> This is a quote from one of your sources.  Actually it is the first sentence in the discussion section.



I see that. Actually I read it and posted it because it supported yalls activity. If you read carefully what I posted you will find I already pointed that out.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> So now we need to remove any and all abnormal stress?  Or at least limit them.  No four wheelers, car horns, truck traffic, scouting, camera flashes, I could go on and on.  IMO, That is crazy.
> 
> Once again, you point to and point to only dog hunting as being the cause of a decreasing population.
> Bag limits, seasons, number of hunters, natural predators, cars, etc.  You never once mentioned.
> ...



You're kidding right?

Dude Re-read 84 and 74


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I see that. Actually I read it and posted it because it supported yalls activity. If you read carefully what I posted you will find I already pointed that out.



No, I read very clearly what you said. 

I posted that to show someone that may not read the whole paper what was said.  Nothing more or less.  Just stated a fact.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> No, I read very clearly what you said.
> 
> I posted that to show someone that may not read the whole paper what was said.  Nothing more or less.  Just stated a fact.



I understand now.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> If dog hunting provided an abnormal stress on deer, and the population was declining, wouldn't you assume this to be a stress that would need to be limited, or possibly removed until the population stabilized?



Clearly typed and stated.


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## firefightermpc (Apr 25, 2013)

This is the same guy (the fever) who is telling flhunter82 that he is wrong for wanting to trespass/harassment of people like himself who are obviously against dog hunting, spite what he says, but in another forum on this website he has several post on how to intentionally hurt someone that is trying to trespass on their leases. Sounds like he is a really good sportsman himself. Lol People like this seem to have all the answers.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> Clearly typed and stated.



No it is a clearly typed PORTION of what I said, and I also stated it as an "IF." 

"This is not a negative paper. In fact it is one that argues AGAINST my original point! However I would like it to be noted that it clearly states that no deer health was affected through the hunts, but it DOES state that deer hunters are far more likely to harvest deer. This should be considered greatly when thinking about harvest limits! Kinda ties into the debate on if it is a sustainable tradition. I think there are still hunting aspects to inspect and change but this is interesting. If you used simple limited logic you could argue that dog hunters are responsible for 2 times the deer harvested then still hunters. All things constant and remaining equal. "

"In regards to asking how could it be a sustainable tradition, the population has increased that hunts, and technology has changed. Add to that a very liberal limit of 12 deer and I think we can all see how this could lead to a down turn in deer population. No? Go to the DNR's homepage and read its reports on the attempt to reduce doe days. The population is declining over the years and by almost one third. There is a fact for you since you seem so inclined to want facts."

There clearly stated is what I said. Both comments regarding factors of a declining deer herd. I have mentioned too large a limit, changes in technology, and increases in hunters. I have only thrown out the limited scenario of dog hunters decreasing the population. I have mentioned that there are other factors. I also clearly stated the conditions needed for the dog hunting to be the sole reason but let me clarify. I do not think that dog hunting is the SOLE REASON that deer populations are declining. There are a multitude of other factors including issues caused by still hunters to be assessed.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

firefightermpc said:


> This is the same guy (the fever) who is telling flhunter82 that he is wrong for wanting to trespass/harassment of people like himself who are obviously against dog hunting, spite what he says, but in another forum on this website he has several post on how to intentionally hurt someone that is trying to trespass on their leases. Sounds like he is a really good sportsman himself. Lol People like this seem to have all the answers.



In another post I stated ways that I made four wheelers and cars that were used to trespass keep from continuing through the property. I condemned the person who suggested hanging wire as a way to keep them off. That was directly HURTING someone. It has been pointed out that it was innocent but a bad idea due to law suit. I admitted so...and removed it...just like I very willingly posted the information I found that favored your sport. Yall please Quit trying to make this thing one sided.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> "This is not a negative paper. In fact it is one that argues AGAINST my original point! However I would like it to be noted that it clearly states that no deer health was affected through the hunts, but it DOES state that deer hunters are far more likely to harvest deer. This should be considered greatly when thinking about harvest limits! Kinda ties into the debate on if it is a sustainable tradition. I think there are still hunting aspects to inspect and change but this is interesting. If you used simple limited logic you could argue that dog hunters are responsible for 2 times the deer harvested then still hunters. All things constant and remaining equal. ".



How through simple limited logic could you agrue dog hunters are responsible for killing 2 times as many deer?


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I have gone on a dog hunt and I can see the attraction but as an ecology major I have come across and read too many papers stating the effects on the herd. Biologically minded I am against it.



Never mind.  I found the answer to the problem.  You've been on one dog hunt and have read too many papers stating the effect on the herd and  you are an expert on dog hunting for deer.  

I have a question for you.  The dog hunt you went on, was it a true dog hunt?  Because there are certainly ones out there that give dog hunters a bad name.  You can find anything to fit the opinion you have in any paper with the right amount of research.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog Hunter said:


> Never mind.  I found the answer to the problem.  You've been on one dog hunt and have read too many papers stating the effect on the herd and  you are an expert on dog hunting for deer.
> 
> I have a question for you.  The dog hunt you went on, was it a true dog hunt?  Because there are certainly ones out there that give dog hunters a bad name.  You can find anything to fit the opinion you have in any paper with the right amount of research.



I don't know. Care to have me along and show me a true dog hunt?


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## flhunter82 (Apr 25, 2013)

Its a shame, This dog hunting forum is setup for us to talk about our love for this sport. We have friendly conversations daily about what we love to do. Why do you anti dog people feel it necessary to come on here and express your negative opinions. They make places for you to talk about what you enjoy so why poke your nose over here.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> I don't know. Care to have me along and show me a true dog hunt?



Don't think so.  I don't usually draw opinons of someone off a forum, but some of the things you have said, I've come to the conclusion that if I can help it you aren't someone I want around my kids and wife.  And I can say for certainly that they would be there.  They have a true love for the sport.


Just keep in mind, dog hunting for deer will be gone one day.  Some other type will be next.  Still hunting, duck hunting with dogs, or something.   Just be careful.  Hunters should standed together if all is legally done.  Not be tearing each other down.


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## Dog Hunter (Apr 25, 2013)

HOG-HEAD said:


> This is not a stillhunter bashing thread , just got a question for yall..I asked a stillhunter yesterday to come join us for the rest of the day on sat and see what doghunting was all about and he politely declined...the reason was , he didn't like doggin beacause it made the deer so scared and nervous and he didn't like scaring them...I jokingly stated that atleast we gave them a chance and let them know we were coming...no smile at all....so what's the strangest reason you ever heard not to doghunt



To the OP.  Sorry I was a part of getting your thread off track.  I've heard so many things over the years.  From it's not fair, tough meat, no sport, dogs don't enjoy to I don't like the lead in my meat and it cost to much.


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## bjoiner (Apr 25, 2013)

i have dog hunted for over 45 years and hunted in the same area and the club i'm in all clubs around us have an increased numbers every year,and there are still hunt clubs around us that have not seen the increase we have there are a lot of factors to consider year round feeding ,horn size limits, the number of does taken you can write all the papers you want but each area is differant.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Dog hunter I am well aware that we are in trouble in regards to how society views us. Let me take a chance and rephrase some things. I choose not to dog hunt. I think there are reasonable regulations that need to be in place like all things if limited and balanced can be a good thing. I do not and have not ever advocated the removal of dog hunting from the state. I do not go to public meetings and bash dog hunting, nor will I ever. When I originally stated that I was against it I meant purely from my own perspective. I choose not to live that lifestyle. I have many close friends that hunt with dogs. I agree we need to stand together. 

I got home today and read the paper and after reading the paper on the effect of doe health after dog runs I am officially retracting what I said before that "ecologically I was against it." I did a little more searching on google scholar and found a few more studies done in the savannah river bottom area in south Carolina all by the university of Georgia that support this same concept also. I booted up the old lap top and looked for the papers and found them. I am embarrassed to admit they were not peer reviewed articles from scholarly journals. I am sorry for the confusion and hijacking of the thread.


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## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey man...lets not take this too much farther. I don't shoot dogs. I catch them and take them to the club up the road and give them back. That dog means something to someone, regardless if its the 50th time that season they have run across my food plot because the hunters are on a tract entirely too small to hunt. They will not take my guns, but that doesent mean that if they pass a law to take them I will go up to a subdivision of yuppies and start shooting up in the air in protest since I have no use for them. I am sorry that I put in my 2 cents and hijacked the thread. I am eagerly waiting on deer seasons return and was browsing yalls thread to pass the time on a lunch break. I didn't mean to have quite the effect that I did. Also in my book anyone who can not see the value of the other person's view is narrow minded. You have to be able to understand any facts or logic the other person has. That is why I stated those articles. Those were facts and logic on your side, and I also wanted other people to see them to be able to understand the conversation.


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## unclefester (Apr 26, 2013)

flhunter82 said:


> Its a shame, This dog hunting forum is setup for us to talk about our love for this sport. We have friendly conversations daily about what we love to do. Why do you anti dog people feel it necessary to come on here and express your negative opinions. They make places for you to talk about what you enjoy so why poke your nose over here.



Good post....


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## grouper throat (Apr 26, 2013)

Actually I have seen different scenarios with deer activity play out in different dog leases (around 400,000 acres of dog leases here). Some leases they are nocturnal but they are nocturnal all year anyway, dogs or not. In these same areas, deer that are on private land tracts and not ran with dogs also exhibit the same behavior. Also it is of note that the deer densities are lower than surrounding areas which brings up the point of less competition for food sources and no need to move during the daylight.  

I find it short sighted at how some folks can try and seperate the dog/human interaction and base a conclusion it's the dogs? humans are always there, running dogs or riding, walking, cutting timber, etc. 

In other places such as my current club and another former one across the road, the deer constantly move all day long, dogs  running every day or not, all year. You can ride and see deer everytime so I see little negative effect from the dogs/human interaction on natural movement. Their movement slows somewhat during the heat of summer and I like to attribute it to the heat or less competition for food as it is abundant at that time. 

I would like to ultimately contribute the major factor based on movement to the amount of competition for the food supply... BUT once late summer rolls around, corn and food plots are everywhere and the deer still move alot during the day. So who knows.. I really think deer movement has very little to do with humans/dogs at all..  mature bucks would still be nocturnal if a human never entered the woods IMO (except during the rut).

So their you have a dog hunter's (and biology undergrad) opinion on deer movement effects by dog hunting.


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## flhunter82 (Apr 26, 2013)

Grouper throat, have you seen the difference it has made in camp misery by simply going to a forked horn rule and no corn? I was hunting over there last year and it is amazing how many bucks are running around. Me and mike g. were sitting on the powerlines and the billy martin waiting on a jump. we watched 6 deer walk into the block the dogs were in.  2 of those were bucks. one was a spike and the other a tall spike with brow tines (legal shooter but he wasn't runnin and I didn't shoot him). Lewis M. shot a buck opening drive. Robbie H. shot 2 eights in a pile. It was a dang awesome season. That is a primarily dog hunt club that has more deer than any other club in florida. you could run around the food plots all day and go back in the evenings and still see 10 deer. you can ride the clear cuts and see 50 deer at dark. I can't see the logic behind these claims that dogs effect deer. Animals evolve to there surroundings, just like building a neighborhood in the middle of the woods. The animals don't leave, they learn to live with you. Same with running dogs there everyday.


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## bjoiner (Apr 26, 2013)

I hunt south of you all and u right deer move into blocks we are running in and they not scared at all of dogs barking every breath and trucks sitting in the road. There are blocks we go eat lunch around to just see deer.during the summer we ride around and see nice bucks [when horns start back]and game pictures of them lets you know things are working along with the number of spoted fawns.What people dont see is all work from dog hunters putting back in the sport we love.


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## englishmonster (May 5, 2013)

*ha ha ha!*

I guess if u wer a still hunter back in tha old days u would ask us dog runners why our guts are well rounded and ur ribs are showing. if a dog will strike it,  tree it,bay it, and catch what ever youll never go hungary and neither will your dogs. its like saying that tha sled dogs in Alaska are bad because there eating fish  (poor fish!)  lol! I still hunt and run hounds/dogs. u can only fit so many people in a deer stand. tha places I deer hunt while sitting on my backside I also coon and squirll hunt .my post prob sounds goofy and makes no since but im all fer hounds.


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## grouper throat (May 6, 2013)

flhunter82- I hear varying reports on Camp Miz. I have heard good stuff and then heard there's no real change back towards Perry from two different members. Across 98 it is terrible, worst than it's ever been as far as killing bucks. I cannot say we don't jump and run them though as I shoot at more than ever but don't kill much. The loss of habitat (pine strawing) and constant outlawing has finally taking a toll there.


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## flhunter82 (May 7, 2013)

Mike G took the biggest buck of his life and one of the biggest in the club, ever. I believe they shot something like 8 good racked 8 points this year. And probably 25 legal shooters. The difference is that, that's where president moody hunts and hunters are following the rules in that area. Not some much over there in outlaw territory!lol


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## grouper throat (May 8, 2013)

That was the best part of miz is that most of members followed the rules. It was a little small for me though and it always seemed too crowded. 

Taking the corn out neutralized guys like me and the Andrews who consistently killed alot of bucks during bow and BP. There's always been alot of bucks in that area but still hunting thinned them out before dog season.


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## flhunter82 (May 9, 2013)

I was told that the andrews killed over twenty 3 and 4 points that were barely legal shooters in one season.  Bucks that would have been passed for spikes if they weren't standing under the stand. I was told that was the main reason for getting rid of the corn.


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## William32 (May 14, 2013)

were all doing what all the anti hunters want one group of hunters wanting to ban another group not even realizing when they get one of us your next I have done both dog hunt and still hunt both have their place but unless we all stick together we all will lose in the end


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## JustUs4All (May 14, 2013)

I have not seen a problem with law abiding still and dog hunters sticking together.  The problem arises when law abiding hunters are asked to stick with hunters who do not abide by the law. 

That argument is the same as saying that law abiding folks who own handguns to stick together with gang bangers just because they also own guns and some want to ban guns and we all might lose in the end.


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## DeoVindice (May 16, 2013)

I will be the last one to ever shed a negative light on any type of hunting. I am not a dog hunter but I have no problem with it whatsoever. Personally, I would rather still hunt, stalk, set up, pattern a deer and try to figure out what he is doing. This gives me a sense of accomplishment. That is just me. 

I do not mean to discredit a dog hunter's sense of accomplishment in any way by saying this. If a hunter bags a deer hunting dogs legally, more power to them. I can see where it would be a lot of fun and give a great feeling of teamwork. Especially for the dog owners who work very hard to train their companions. It is nice to have dogs that will bring your bounty to you...Still, you have to make the shot. Always easier said than done. 

My biggest problem with dogs is they have no sense of property lines. I have personally experienced dogs running through my stand location only a couple times. I did not appreciate the extra pressure on the deer in my area. Dog hunters can say it does not matter or whatever, but if they want non dog hunters to respect their way, they must respect mine too. I do not want hunting dogs running through my area. Although I will be the first to admit that if they bring a trophy buck to me and I tag him, I'm gonna be a happy hunter. 

If someone invited me to go on a dog hunt I would go in a minute as long as I feel comfortable with the other hunters. It would be a blast and I am the type who gets excited when I hear the other guy shoot. It is fun at the highest level for me. If kids are shooting, even better. I always root for the other guy. I mean think about it...The odds are against all of us anyway. If someone bags a trophy, it is a great thing. I'm happy for them. 

There is nothing unethical about dog hunting. Nothing. Hunters use dogs to hunt birds, hogs, bears, etc...Why not deer? Deer are harder to catch anyway. They are perhaps the toughest game to hunt in North America. At least the mature bucks are. With the thickets of South Ga. it is still very difficult to bag a mature buck even with dogs. I may not be a dog hunter but I have been around enough to understand this. As far as I'm concerned, best of luck to all dog hunters. Hope this upcoming season is a great one.


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## William32 (May 17, 2013)

I know what you mean what i was saying was when some one is in the wrong we all look bad. I grew up running dogs in north fla then I still hunted for about 10 years.we hunted in a wma part still hunt and part dog hunt we've had our dogs shot by still hunters in the wma and was just saying that every time this kinda stuff happens we all look bad there's bad eggs on both sides that are hurting all of us


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## swamp hunter (May 17, 2013)

I'm strickly a Still Hunter..But you shoot someones Dogs near me and we got a BIG Problem.
 I'm callin the Dog Guys first..Then the Ambulance.


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## king killer delete (May 18, 2013)

Dog hunting for deer is a southern tradition. I grew up in Mississippi deer hunting with dogs. I still hunt now a days but I still love the thrill of hearing a pack of dogs burning one up. I do not have a problem with dog hunting all i ask is that you respect me and the land I hunt and not run your dogs through it. Killing a dog is about as low as you can get. I rank that with a child killer. I had a retreiver shot by a low life and needless to say i was not happy. Right now my best buddy is a beagle I found at work. He had been shot and was beat up hard. I love my hound and he loves me. if sombody hurt my dog they would have a bad day. I guess you could say he is a Dear dog. He loves to go to disney world, cause he likes to beat up his Mickey mouse. That all I got to say about somebody hurting a poor dumb dog.


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## Son (May 19, 2013)

When i was a young man, enjoyed many years of running deer with hounds. Enjoyed listening and fooling with the dogs more than i did shooting a deer. But of course in South Fl, it's thick and we really didn't have the number of deer we have now. The price of fuel would keep me from running em these days. Loved them ol hounds though, Black, Blue, Rusty, Sally, Butch and so on. All gone now but not forgotten. Also ran a good pack of hog dogs back in the day. That was fun too.


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## RLykens (Nov 2, 2013)

I would try dig hunting. Never done it, might like it. I love dogs and I love hunting so what's not to like. Doesn't mean I can't hunt other ways too.


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## southgabowhunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Most addicting type of hunting anyone will ever do. Hearing a pack of hounds burn a deer is a guaranteed adrenaline rush. Still hunters kill way more deer than dog hunters each year. Still hunting is much more productive.


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## umbuntu (Dec 11, 2013)

When I first started hunting, I had just moved to Ga to go to college near our old family farm.  One day I decided to "try hunting deer" with a shotgun and about 8:30 drove into one of our fields. Ten min. later I heard dogs start up from 4 corners of my grandfather's field. I was ticked!  At least 30 deer scattered from all over with 20 dogs criss crossing every way. Little did I know that Granddad had for years let dog hunters use that block of land.  Granddad didn't hunt but most of the club were farmers and farmer's kids.  I shot a deer that ran by at 15 yards and then drove out to the road to find 10 trucks in our orchard!  I was hot!  You know how a gentle answer turns away wrath?  They explained what they were doing and invited me to join them.  I hunted with that club for the next 3 years and enjoyed the meals, the friendship, the dogs and the hunts.  I wish I still had the time to hunt with dogs but now years later (married, 4 children), its all about changes in priorities.  I hunt now with my kids on that same farm but the law changed about contiguous acres and the club couldn't use that block anymore.


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## thedudeabides (Dec 11, 2013)

I know next to nothing about the subject and I am not arguing, but do the odds of hitting a deer and not killing or recovering it increase if you are shooting them on the run ?


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## Seth carter (Mar 5, 2014)

I hunt to get away from people  an ide rather not be standing in the woods with a bunch of people throwing buckshot at watever comes in sight


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## fredw (Mar 5, 2014)

Seth carter said:


> I hunt to get away from people  an ide rather not be standing in the woods with a bunch of morons throwing buckshot at watever comes in sight



Mr. Carter, I participate in these hunts and have never experienced a "bunch of morons throwing buckshot at whatever comes in sight".  Tell me about your experience where this has happened.


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## DogHunter4Life (Mar 5, 2014)

I love dog hunting and have done it for 25 years and I've had way more good experiences than bad. I don't know what I would do if they ever ended it. I guess by about 5 acres and fence it in and have a rabbit/beagle pen.


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## JustUs4All (Mar 7, 2014)

fredw said:


> Mr. Carter, I participate in these hunts and have never experienced a "bunch of morons throwing buckshot at whatever comes in sight".  Tell me about your experience where this has happened.



I don't think the young man will be able to do much of that, Mr. Fred.


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## Scrapy (Jun 16, 2014)

Cmcharles said:


> Not wanting to spend my evening trying to catch a bunch of lost dogs



That's my favorite part of deer dogging.  LOL But also my least favorite part of coondogging with trash runners.


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## Beasley (Jun 16, 2014)

JustUs4All said:


> I don't think the young man will be able to do much of that, Mr. Fred.



Exactly.....most who judge dog hunting in a negative way have never even been involved in a dog hunt


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## Scrapy (Jun 16, 2014)

Vernon Holt said:


> Your case against "dog hunting" might have some merit if you would outline for us some of the "effects on the herd" as documented in your "many papers."
> 
> I lived, worked, and hound-hunted in the adjoining coastal county of McIntosh for some 35 years. I learned from talking with older men, many of whom were hunting companions, that: (1) This area of GA was _never_ without a good population of Whitetail Deer.
> (2). Hound hunting has been a way of life there since Coastal GA was settled by the English in the 1750's. We are talking about 250+ years of "dog-hunting", with virtually all of it being "either sex" or "brown is down" as the general practice.
> ...



I've made my living for 35 years as an environmental scientist, not as an environmentalist. I grew up dog hunting on plantations and farming so I guess I was too dumb to learn what I was being taught in College. Actually, I was not too dumb. I knew - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - when I heard it so I transferred to a Respectable University  that was not pushing an agenda but teaching basic sciences. Edit ; got my - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - degree in it too.


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## king killer delete (Jun 16, 2014)

You know I grew up dog hunting. We never used shotguns. This was in Mississippi. Before you judge it was not done like it is in Georgia. That being said I have dog hunted in Georgia. I love to hear a good race. Now I still hunt. It is deer hunting. Deer hunting is done in many places in the U.S. , Canada and Mexico. Two different kinds of hunting. Yea your deer hunting but it is like apples and oranges. If you have not hunted with dogs you can not judge. I am sorry. To call some one a moron is way off base. We all can agree that we can disagree with out calling names. Dog hunting is a group sport. It is a Southern tradition. George Washington owned a pack of hounds. Still hunting is quiet and can be a way to rest your brain. Each sport has merit.


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## Scrapy (Jun 16, 2014)

Vernon Holt said:


> The Fever:  I'm not sure what my age has to do with this subject, but perhaps I am overlooking something.
> 
> You are to be commended for establishing firm priorities in your busy life.  Sorry if I appeared over-anxious to get a response from you.  There is a lesson to be learned from this exchange.  Any time one stakes out a firm position, one should be prepared to defend or clarify that position with facts and logic.  You have failed, for reasons not clear, to provide any rationale as to why dog hunting has an adverse effect on Whitetail population.
> 
> ...



This is just an aside as to how life has changed in two generations. Most of my uncles on my mamma's side managed plantations because the knew the land and were trusted gentlemen more than for their education.  times were already changing and they insisted on "Bucks Only" or don't come back.  My daddy was from the upstate and they did not have many deer . When one put him on a stand in a thicket he saw a close by leaning tree where he could oversee the brush and climbed up it. You were not to leave your stand under any circumstances.  It was a dog drive. When they came back they thought he had left his stand but he hailed them from up in that harrycane. They laughed so much at a fellow sitting up in a tree that that stand bears his name to this day.


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## Scrapy (Jun 16, 2014)

*another uncle*

Was to entertain a guest from England.  He informed my uncle of his marksmanship on upland game birds and such so my Uncle figured he could shoot. It was the middle of the week so they would have a small drive, consisting of mostly jump dogs , no need for trail dogs on a small drive. Once again the Englishman was advised "Bucks Only"policy . My uncle sent his hand along named Buck, to get him to the right stand in the swamp and to be his guide/companion. The dogs jumped and were headed their way. Directly the Englishman saw a patch of brown in the thicket , took aim, and balowwyow! There was a commotion in the bushes and Buck ran in to see the results. The Englishman hollered, "Did I get him?" Buck said, "yessah , you got him alright suh, but 'e a doe 'doe".  About that time my uncle hollered from his stand, "did you get him"? To which the Englishman yelled , "Yes, I got him but your man here tells me I got a Dodo, a creature I thought extinct long ago".


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## king killer delete (Jun 18, 2014)

Reason to dog hunt. You got the land , the dogs, its legal and you want to.


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## Scrapy (Jun 19, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Reason to dog hunt. You got the land , the dogs, its legal and you want to.


 Amen bro , but 'splain dis ting to me .  I come and RENT a 10 acre tract next to your fambly property  an I am from Miami maybe even a legal and decide whatever ya'll been doing for 100 years is totally irrelevant?  The Realestate sales man never say Might be deer hunters stop in front of your new domicile  to ketchup dogs .  Cause the real estate agent don't know and don't care . Much less for a "renter" . So how is it that a Florida cracker, peckerwood can come up here and rent 10 acre and control the whole dangum county????? by saying where your dogs can or can't run??


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## king killer delete (Jun 20, 2014)

It is the times


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## Scrapy (Jun 25, 2014)

killer elite said:


> It is the times


  Why?


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## Riverrat84 (Jul 17, 2014)

Seth carter said:


> I hunt to get away from people  an ide rather not be standing in the woods with a bunch of people throwing buckshot at watever comes in sight



This poor old fella don't sound like much of a people person. I bet he packs a sandwich every Saturday and sits in his truck in complete silence and does yoga. I'd much rather be shooting the bull with all the boys at the clubhouse and eatin a mess of fried redbreast or whatever might be on the menu. I dog hunt TO BE AROUND GOOD PEOPLE, people that aren't so wrapped up in big horns that they have forgotten what hunting is all about.
This brings me to my next point, slinging buckshot at every deer that comes by is a blast! Ha ha.......go back to your still hunters page dork, or mabey you should start your own page where you are the only person on that forum since you don't like people.


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## jphendrix (Nov 1, 2014)

I grew up deer hunting with dogs. Daddy use to wake me up early and we'd load up the dogs, go eat breakfast and hit the club. I've got alot of great memories growing up on the club. Sure wish I could do it now, but just cant afford it and my hubby doesnt want to, so we just still hunt now.


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## firefightermpc (Nov 1, 2014)

I thought dog hunting was the only way to hunt! Lol On a real note where we run in Florida if it wasn't for our 4 legged friends we wouldn't hardly see a deer come out of these big swamps. I have done it my whole life and plan to continue to do so. Its deeper than just killing deer its a way for my family and friends to have a bond that can only come from experiencing this sport. From the camp to the woods its a great experience. Its awesome to watch our little ones grow up around this way of hunting and love it! Nothing makes me prouder than to see one of them kill their first one in front of a pack of screaming hounds especially if their my hounds. As its been quoted many times on here before its a group effort. I love hearing someone else shooting at a deer as much as if it were me. If you don't have this same feeling maybe you should be in a tree and still hunting. You will never hear me bash the way someone wants to hunts, but in the same sentence don't tell me how to hunt. Its obvious to me that anyone one that says its to easy or unfair hasn't dog hunted a whole lot in their life if any at all. Dog hunting is a way of life here in the south for a lot of us, but it seems to be slowly taken away from us year by year. Until its outlawed I will continue to be involved with it. Oh yea for all the still hunters reading this that hate this sport guess what will be next when they succeed in outlawing dog hunting!?


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## Mako22 (Nov 1, 2014)

I've done both and have loved both but I must say for pure fun nothing beats running hounds!


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## shakey gizzard (Nov 1, 2014)

Is'nt this why we domesticated dogs in the first place?


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## firefightermpc (Nov 2, 2014)

Man sounds like you have it all figured out! The only problem is you have no clue what your talking about. Think you need to look a little more into what being a dog hunter represents. Most of the people in my 30 plus years of being in the sport are good sportsman and play by the rules.


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## buck1 (Nov 2, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> No trophy management, anti qdma, can't hve anything, majority of kills are small bucks, running dogs through nieghbors property and then cutting the deer off on the dirt road(endangering the lives of innocent bystanders), outlaws, no regard for anyone else's property or what they wish to accomplish, no stewardship , a lot of taking and no giving back to the wildlife, annoying pipes, and the list goes on. Face the facts people .....dog hunting is going to be more governed because these people as a majority give hunters and conservationist a bad name.Just because your dogs a good hunter doesn't make you one and you can quote that.




You must have voted for Obama!! You would make a good campaign worker for him.. Maybe be his Monica???


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## shawnrice (Nov 2, 2014)

There is no reason not to dog hunt ,its the most fun you will ever have hunting a deer ,I do both and EVERYTIME I'm sittin still hunting I think man I'D love to hear some ole dogs coming, thats my opinion but I'm a houndsman ,if you can run it with a hound I'm in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DogHunter4Life (Nov 2, 2014)

trophy is in the eye of the beholder!!! i was spinning my tires just as hard for this spike as i was the 10 point!!

i love dog hunting and usually cant sit longer than an hour in a deer stand

most of the hunters around here use shock collars and/or garmins and we can control our dogs.. i'd say that 10 years ago at least once every saturday and sunday the dogs would get on the neighbors land.. now with our garmins it happens less than 10 times the entire season (and thats all sides) and usually the folks that do not run the garmins or shock collars.

dont knock it until you try it..and even then you hunt how you want and i'll hunt how i want to


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## Riverrat84 (Nov 2, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> No trophy management, anti qdma, can't hve anything, majority of kills are small bucks, running dogs through nieghbors property and then cutting the deer off on the dirt road(endangering the lives of innocent bystanders), outlaws, no regard for anyone else's property or what they wish to accomplish, no stewardship , a lot of taking and no giving back to the wildlife, annoying pipes, and the list goes on. Face the facts people .....dog hunting is going to be more governed because these people as a majority give hunters and conservationist a bad name.Just because your dogs a good hunter doesn't make you one and you can quote that.



What an idiot. Another egotistical, uneducated, greedy, arrogant, anti-social, stuck-up, winey, lonely, CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored poor excuse for a hunter......more like an anti hunter.


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## KyDawg (Nov 2, 2014)

You can find some still hunters who are bad Apples, but I don't judge the whole group based on a tiny fraction of that group.


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## Riverrat84 (Nov 2, 2014)

buck1 said:


> You must have voted for Obama!! You would make a good campaign worker for him.. Maybe be his Monica???



We shall call the boy MONICA!


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## KyDawg (Nov 2, 2014)

Nice looking deer DogHunter.


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## Scrapy (Nov 3, 2014)

Riverrat84 said:


> We shall call the boy MONICA!



You got five kids aged 8 to 18. Give 'em pots and spoons and siccum into briery cut downs man driving. LOL Without a dog. LOL see what I mean? Got to stay up half the night running that last kid down and take a week putting some fatback on her.


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## Scrapy (Nov 4, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> No trophy management, anti qdma, can't hve anything, majority of kills are small bucks, running dogs through nieghbors property and then cutting the deer off on the dirt road(endangering the lives of innocent bystanders), outlaws, no regard for anyone else's property or what they wish to accomplish, no stewardship , a lot of taking and no giving back to the wildlife, annoying pipes, and the list goes on. Face the facts people .....dog hunting is going to be more governed because these people as a majority give hunters and conservationist a bad name.Just because your dogs a good hunter doesn't make you one and you can quote that.


 Can you swap the word "Conservationist" for "Preservationist"??  The Conservationist title has been stolen by the "Preservationist" and they are are a pile of Liars. Conservationist respect the "Wise Use Of." Land Resources .... Preservationist believe in fig "preserves" , Grape" Preserves", Etc . Put them on the shelf and never, ever use" the preserves . You get bent all out of shape if anyone opens one jar : including a Forest Service road to go collect more. You can Not fool me. You are not a Conservationist, you are a Preservationist, and do NOT use your Lieing title to hide behind that fact as a no account.  Announcing that Conservationists and Preservationist are the same is akin to the lie that Capitalist and Socialist are on the same page. That is an outright lie. I don't care what your College professor told you. He might be a lier or, a dummy , may have misunderstood.


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## Riverrat84 (Nov 6, 2014)

Dear Monica 

Hey bud you ask for the names. Our club is about 1/2 mile to the closest county road, and we never have any trouble with neibors. In fact we have land that we don't even hunt because we know that dogs will more than likely get out of pocket if we do. I have never hunted at a club that turned out on somebody else's place and cut them off on the other side. I do know some that use to do this kind of thing but I chose not to hunt there. You could have done the same thing if you knew that was what they were doing. I know family members that don't even speak because of some trail cam pictures of a big buck and who was going to kill what buck and who was putting stands where and so forth. Come Saturday morning we will stand off our hunt and everybody has one common goal... To kill the deer. That's what deer hunters do right? And whether it be a yearling or trophy buck, everybody is happy for whoever pulled the trigger. If you want to talk about safety look at how many people get shot with high powered rifles each year, it's way more than buckshot I promise. Again you choose who you hunt with. Just because you are into deer watching dosnt mean everybody else is. If you think you a hunter then come kill a big buck in front of hounds at a club that's been run with dogs for the last 70 years. We ain't qdma but the big bucks are there, they just ain't stupid. As far as conservation we also feed year round, it has made a big difference in how many deer we have. Most of the best all around hunters I know are dog hunters. Monica, there's more to life than big horns, a real hunter knows that.


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## buck1 (Nov 7, 2014)

Riverrat84 said:


> Dear Monica
> 
> Hey bud you ask for the names. Our club is about 1/2 mile to the closest county road, and we never have any trouble with neibors. In fact we have land that we don't even hunt because we know that dogs will more than likely get out of pocket if we do. I have never hunted at a club that turned out on somebody else's place and cut them off on the other side. I do know some that use to do this kind of thing but I chose not to hunt there. You could have done the same thing if you knew that was what they were doing. I know family members that don't even speak because of some trail cam pictures of a big buck and who was going to kill what buck and who was putting stands where and so forth. Come Saturday morning we will stand off our hunt and everybody has one common goal... To kill the deer. That's what deer hunters do right? And whether it be a yearling or trophy buck, everybody is happy for whoever pulled the trigger. If you want to talk about safety look at how many people get shot with high powered rifles each year, it's way more than buckshot I promise. Again you choose who you hunt with. Just because you are into deer watching dosnt mean everybody else is. If you think you a hunter then come kill a big buck in front of hounds at a club that's been run with dogs for the last 70 years. We ain't qdma but the big bucks are there, they just ain't stupid. As far as conservation we also feed year round, it has made a big difference in how many deer we have. Most of the best all around hunters I know are dog hunters. Monica, there's more to life than big horns, a real hunter knows that.




Oh wow, look Mom it's common sense.. ^^^^^

This man has it figured out, and speaks for about 90% of us.


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## Beasley (Nov 7, 2014)

We used to dog hunt here in southern emanuel county and everybody wanted to trophy manage and kill big bucks....5 years later we still where we were before. No big deer on cameras and none being killed and still hunters killing 14inch 2.5 year olds out the stand. What kind of management is that? Some places just dont grow big deer....so dont blame it on dog hunters


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## KyDawg (Nov 7, 2014)

Now dog hunters are uneducated? That is an incredible accusation.


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## Riverrat84 (Nov 7, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> Btw I'm out of this thread. I hopped over to see what was the latest thing that was amusing. I've had my fill of uneducated responses. happy hunting



You missing the whole point fella, we really aren't into making sure deer grow old and grey it's the experience that we get to share with each other as clubs and club members every weekend listening to good races and having good fun. That's what we are after. If somebody kills a big one that's always a plus. You are right though I personally am uneducated on hunting..... There are some things you just can't learn in a classroom. It's hunting dude, not rocket science.  We will miss you Monica


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## Beasley (Nov 7, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> I think you answered the question for yourself, sounds like yall had it figured out. Hahahaha!!!! 14" 2.5 yo ??  That's not in and shouldn't be in any trophy management plan! If you were educated you would know that age class is where big deer come from. Your experiences note that between the still hunters And the "managers" the result was the same!? I think the result is yall kill everything before it has a chance to reach its potential (4.5 years old)
> And then you wonder where all the big deer are?? ignorance is bliss, all you people have no clue what your talking about. Please educate yourself. You can feed a deer all the protien,  do prescribed fires to enhance natural browse And he can have great genetics but if he doesn't reAch maturity he's not going to ever get big! When's the last time a farmer planted soybeans in May and harvested them in June? Never because for him to have a maximum yield the crop matures before the harvest.



hey buddy i said thats what the still hunters are shooting and claimin is trophys.......


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## DogHunter4Life (Nov 7, 2014)

Riverrat84 said:


> You missing the whole point fella, we really aren't into making sure deer grow old and grey it's the experience that we get to share with each other as clubs and club members every weekend listening to good races and having good fun. That's what we are after. If somebody kills a big one that's always a plus. You are right though I personally am uneducated on hunting..... There are some things you just can't learn in a classroom. It's hunting dude, not rocket science.  We will miss you Monica



that fellers got it figured out!!


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## Scrapy (Nov 10, 2014)

Tell me true!  Who hasn't snickered at a fellow in a dove field or duck blind that by the time he gets his gun up the bird is gone. LOL that's the way it is dog driving in these thickets. Lots of bucks made old grey age and just died off.  Plus, back in the day, they had a split of a second to determine if it was a buck or a doe while they were getting their gun up and another split of a second to put the sight on it and pull the trigger. 

Now, if you can't kill a deer standing still in front of you for ten minutes, Please Tell me True? which has the best survival rate?

Don't get me wrong. A lot of old men loved it and went on dog drives back in the day hoping to get a shot.  Some scored but as a rule when you gathered up before daylight to take a drive, it was not the old men expected to bring in the meat. They just loved the Hunt. The older fellows were the first to take up tree sitting back in the day when it first started.


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## mikelowery9 (Nov 10, 2014)

tomtriage said:


> I think you answered the question for yourself, sounds like yall had it figured out. Hahahaha!!!! 14" 2.5 yo ??  That's not in and shouldn't be in any trophy management plan! If you were educated you would know that age class is where big deer come from. Your experiences note that between the still hunters And the "managers" the result was the same!? I think the result is yall kill everything before it has a chance to reach its potential (4.5 years old)
> And then you wonder where all the big deer are?? ignorance is bliss, all you people have no clue what your talking about. Please educate yourself. You can feed a deer all the protien,  do prescribed fires to enhance natural browse And he can have great genetics but if he doesn't reAch maturity he's not going to ever get big! When's the last time a farmer planted soybeans in May and harvested them in June? Never because for him to have a maximum yield the crop matures before the harvest.



Paul you better watch out, your dealing with a highly educated fella. It's obvious he knows exactly what he is talking about. I would say don't tell him about the 158" county record that was killed in front of dogs, and the 120-130" bucks we kill every year running dogs, but im sure a fella with that much education is already aware.


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## KyDawg (Nov 10, 2014)

This ^^


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## Beasley (Nov 12, 2014)

mikelowery9 said:


> Paul you better watch out, your dealing with a highly educated fella. It's obvious he knows exactly what he is talking about. I would say don't tell him about the 158" county record that was killed in front of dogs, and the 120-130" bucks we kill every year running dogs, but im sure a fella with that much education is already aware.



haha his last name could very well be SHAW! i just cant figure out why people cant be like us and love to still hunt and to dog hunt....


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## mikelowery9 (Nov 13, 2014)

Some people just ain't set up the way we are. Fine by me, more deer for us to run behind them smokin beagle walkers. I'm gonna unless the propane pack Saturday, Hollywood is chomping at the bits to burn one up.


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## enjoythehunt (Nov 19, 2014)

Let me first say I have not one issue with dog hunting as long as they are hunting legal....not one.  I know a lot of you out there really love it.  If it is how you hunt and you love it, more power to you.  Here's the real truth in all of this debate I see here.  SOME, definitely NOT ALL dog hunters do not respect property lines whatsoever.  Just the same as there are still hunters that are poachers.  Dog hunters that freely allow their dogs to get on another person's property and know that dog is running a deer off that property is, in my opinion, a poacher.  I cannot tell you how many times I have been on my club hunting and dogs from the club near us come running through.  It's infuriating.  I know for a fact what they do is run to the pack that is chasing and let the other packs "go" until the chasing pack either stops chasing or they get the deer.  Then they go back to retrieve the other dogs.  By then, they are all over us on our property or on other clubs nearby.   They want me to respect that they enjoy dog hunting but they have absolutely NO RESPECT for me that i do not want to dog hunt.  Again, I am not saying this is all dog hunters as I know many of you dog hunters would never leave any packs unattended.  They make sure they have enough hunters to stop them before they get on someone else's property.  It's a few bad apples that spoil the bunch.  For years, neighbors in this particular area have complained about two specific clubs doing this.  Again, it is not all dog hunters but there are those that have no respect for neighboring clubs that don't dog hunt.  I even had a dog hunter say one time that "he can't help it if his dog gets on someone else's property 'cause he can't control what an animal does".  Unfortunately, this is the mentality of SOME dog hunters; not to mention it's just ignorant.  I know all too well how smart these dogs are and know other dog hunters that have trained their dogs to come to certain sounds (whistles,etc).  So it is definitely possible to better train their dogs.   

I have no problem with any hunter that follows the law and respects property lines but I have got a huge problem with those that don't. For the record, I have dog hunted.  I enjoyed it but if I have to pay a lease fee I just prefer to still hunt.  For me, dog hunters that let dogs chase on another's property or a still hunter that trespasses are the same.... They are poachers.  
Now, before you get all in an uproar, this goes for ANY hunter that hunts on another person's property whether directly or by use of their dogs.  

Given my particular experience with a neighboring club I can see how others that have experienced the same or similar issue can think all dog hunters are this way.  Fortunately for me, I know other dog hunters that don't do this so I am very well aware that it is a small group that don't respect the boundaries, etc.  I will not, however, excuse the terrible behavior and antics of those I have to deal with.


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## PappyHoel (Nov 19, 2014)

I wanna go I have 5 quota points saved up.  Who has dogs and can take me


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## Whitetailfreak23 (Nov 20, 2014)

I see nothing wrong with dog hunting. Its just not my cup of tea. Running a buck or doe till its tough as a lighter knot and its all stressed out makes the meat tough.


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## grouper throat (Nov 20, 2014)

My buddy has a bro in law who grew up in Colorado and hunting most of the Midwest. He loves to dog hunt now and has made it a tradition to come and run. The other day he said something to the effect of "I don't know how any of you guys hit the buck running or slipping across the road and this is by far the most challenging type of hunting ever." Yep, the dog woods have raised some mighty fine quick shooters...


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## Scrapy (Nov 20, 2014)

Whitetailfreak23 said:


> I see nothing wrong with dog hunting. Its just not my cup of tea. Running a buck or doe till its tough as a lighter knot and its all stressed out makes the meat tough.



You have done enough dog hunting to know that for a fact or did you hear an "old timer" of a tree hunter say it?

I like my venison a little chewy. Don't want it soft as bloodshot. 

Walt Disney is good at depicting animal emotions. I am not. But I do know exercise relieves stress. I think I'd be stressed out slipping along looking up in trees. LOL..


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## Riverrat84 (Nov 20, 2014)

Whitetailfreak23 said:


> I see nothing wrong with dog hunting. Its just not my cup of tea. Running a buck or doe till its tough as a lighter knot and its all stressed out makes the meat tough.



I guess you don't shoot big bucks that run does for hours on end either.... Just wondering? There ain't no difference in the meet trust me.


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## KyDawg (Nov 21, 2014)

I ate deer meat for 10 years before I ate one that was not run by hounds. I think I enjoyed every bite of it. I have heard that old tale too, but don't believe a word of it.


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## luvtohunt (Nov 24, 2014)

I Love dog hunting and actually am currently looking for a club to join where I can dog hunt. I still hunt also but love the chase too!


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## Scrapy (Nov 24, 2014)

luvtohunt said:


> I Love dog hunting and actually am currently looking for a club to join where I can dog hunt. I still hunt also but love the chase too!


 
You might want to PM me. Sorry to say if you got money.  I know a club that was put out of the dog driving fun about six years ago.. A "local" boy from out of this county rented up 300 acres of p poor sandy land right in the middle of their lease. On one side my friends got 800 acres of their family land. Then the  three hundred  of planted sandy pine roads they seen to think is vergin timber and 400 acres on the far side of the road , then 1200 acres where a land owner hears dogs coming , grabs his shotgun, shoots the deer; not the dogs, Then hauls it out for then to share on halvsies and they butcher it near the road and draw lots. On top of that, These buttox heads have convinced  a deputy or two that there is night hunting going on on the property and if the will patrol that County Dirt road . The they will get a free membership to Sit "donuts supplied". I do drink some and I and have lots of lady frieds and feed coons just to watch them feed by hollowing sewy !  Way befor I get to their club on that sandy hill palnted about to get pulp wood size. needless to say, I am nat much impressed with that behavior. I got a key to the right hand side of the road to entertain our late night lady friends on. 
I nfact we road around so much one night, my truck ran out of gas headed up the hill on nthe County Dirt road cause the tank leaned backwards.  We all walked on to my house.  

Next day. There is a card in my window . Axing me what I am doing riding down their County Dirt road?  Needless to say, I am not a member of either club. But if someone with money could outbid the next anti-up for a piddly little 300 acres that wants to control this County, I , myself would be very pleased. There is no minimum acreage here for dog driving. These dog driving folks have just tolerated outsiders and not getting their dogs shot up.

I'd be more than tickled if some folks would strip the lease out from under the current lessors .  I ain't got a penny in it either way. I'd just be glad to get back to doing a local Country Boy late night thing, riding and entertaining.


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## Scrapy (Dec 8, 2014)

Still smiling smilies. Anybody want to jump on a country boy and some girls having fun feeding coons et al .??


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## M Sharpe (Dec 27, 2014)

300 acres isn't much for dog hunting.....and according to the DNR regulations, it is a minimum of 1000 acres of leased property and 250 acres of privately owned property.


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## Scrapy (Dec 27, 2014)

M Sharpe said:


> 300 acres isn't much for dog hunting.....and according to the DNR regulations, it is a minimum of 1000 acres of leased property and 250 acres of privately owned property.



Say What? They are going to lease a 1000 acres of (What kind of land) Government land AKA Public Land? and lease 250 acres of Private land? OR are they going to lease 1000 acres of private land and lease 250 more acres of private land? Or buy 250 acres of private land? Where did these magic numbers come from?

3000 acres is not much to dog drive on. I coon hunt and I don't hunt on several 1,000 acre tracts if I know the adjoining renters of 300 acre spots  are the stupid types. I like my dogs too well.


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## M Sharpe (Dec 27, 2014)

Deer Hunting With Dogs

Deer may be hunted with dogs only within authorized seasons and localities. Additionally, deer may be hunted with dogs only on leased properties of at least 1,000 contiguous acres or privately-owned properties of at least 250 contiguous acres that are permitted by DNR. Permits are specific to a piece of property. Only one annual permit application per property should be submitted. Applications for a permit must be received at least 30 days prior to hunting deer with dogs. Applicants wishing to hunt on opening day must submit an application by September 5, 2014. Applications for a permit may be obtained by visiting www.gohuntgeorgia.com. To legally hunt deer with dogs, each hunter 16 years and older must possess a deer dog hunting license in addition to all other required licenses and permits. The fee for this license is $5 except that Honorary, Sportsmen’s and Lifetime license holders may obtain the license at no charge. Dogs used for hunting deer on such properties must be marked with the assigned permit number during a hunt. The permit number also must be clearly displayed on all vehicles being used during a dog deer hunt. For more information visit gohuntgeorgia.com or call (706) 557-3241.


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## The Fever (Dec 30, 2014)

KyDawg said:


> You can find some still hunters who are bad Apples, but I don't judge the whole group based on a tiny fraction of that group.



This is the hardest thing for me to get over. The ones in my area are not good folk. I quit hunting on a large tract of land my family has had for generations because of issues with them. I would still like to go out with someone and run dogs one day to see the other side of the coin.


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## Scrapy (Dec 30, 2014)

The Fever said:


> This is the hardest thing for me to get over. The ones in my area are not good folk. I quit hunting on a large tract of land my family has had for generations because of issues with them. I would still like to go out with someone and run dogs one day to see the other side of the coin.



I didn't get which side you were having issues with.


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## The Fever (Dec 30, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> I didn't get which side you were having issues with.



Not judging all dog hunters by the actions of a few.


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## ghost8026 (Dec 30, 2014)

I hunt in camden fever your welcome to tag along for a dog hunt with me in waverly sometime


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## groundhawg (Jan 2, 2015)

Just to much noise.


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## M Sharpe (Jan 2, 2015)

groundhawg said:


> Just to much noise.



Next to a gobbling turkey, that's the next best sound... a pack of hounds on a cold crisp morning!!!


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## bowboy1989 (Jan 2, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> Next to a gobbling turkey, that's the next best sound... a pack of hounds on a cold crisp morning!!!



amen!


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## Scrapy (Jan 3, 2015)

M Sharpe said:


> 300 acres isn't much for dog hunting.....and according to the DNR regulations, it is a minimum of 1000 acres of leased property and 250 acres of privately owned property.


We all agree on 300 acres aint much to dog drive on. But three hundred piddly acres in the middle is enough to stop dog driving on 2400 acres plus they want to control who drives the county dirt road.  By telling the deputys that night hunting is going on. I rode that road all night and had  a key to the side that had to give up dog hunting 12 months a year. I can tell you for a fact that there was no night hunting happening or I would known about it don't you think? The dirt road is six miles long. The three hundred acre club has 1/2 mile frontage on one side of it.  I will go on record as saying that 300 acres is as poor as the poorest no account sandy land in the whole county. If they ever do kill a decent deer it about had to be raised on better land than what they got. Again, that 300 acres could be rented by some folks whats got money and put back together a fine dog hunting club. JMO. A piddly 300 acres should NOT be allowed to control 3,000 thousand acres around it.


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## bowboy1989 (Jan 4, 2015)

Scrapy said:


> We all agree on 300 acres aint much to dog drive on. But three hundred piddly acres in the middle is enough to stop dog driving on 2400 acres plus they want to control who drives the county dirt road.  By telling the deputys that night hunting is going on. I rode that road all night and had  a key to the side that had to give up dog hunting 12 months a year. I can tell you for a fact that there was no night hunting happening or I would known about it don't you think? The dirt road is six miles long. The three hundred acre club has 1/2 mile frontage on one side of it.  I will go on record as saying that 300 acres is as poor as the poorest no account sandy land in the whole county. If they ever do kill a decent deer it about had to be raised on better land than what they got. Again, that 300 acres could be rented by some folks whats got money and put back together a fine dog hunting club. JMO. A piddly 300 acres should NOT be allowed to control 3,000 thousand acres around it.



this is so true. there are so many small tracks of land that are way smaller than 300 acres out there that try to control and manage everybodys business around them, not just with dog hunting issues but still hunting, turkey hunting, and even small game.


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