# Ministering to sex offenders



## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

Any of you Christians on here do this?  I know there is a strong hatred for sex offenders in general, but I'm wondering how many ask what Jesus would do.  

I just saw a program that spotlighted COSA (Circles of Support and Accountability).  I'll give these religious people in California credit for stepping up and doing something the government has failed at doing.  



> GONZALEZ: And it appears to work. A recent study of COSA in Canada showed a sharp decline in recidivism rates among sex offenders involved in the program. COSA volunteers who help the sex offenders are often motivated by a combination of religious faith and a wish to protect their families and communities.


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## Inthegarge (Feb 23, 2010)

WE have a local Ministry that has been doing it for years........RW


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Feb 23, 2010)

there are a couple in NE Ga.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> there are a couple in NE Ga.



Interesting.  This was the first I've ever heard of it.  

Faith-based organizations?


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Feb 23, 2010)

i dunno for sure......


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Any of you Christians on here do this?  I know there is a strong hatred for sex offenders in general, but I'm wondering how many ask what Jesus would do.
> I just saw a program that spotlighted COSA (Circles of Support and Accountability).  I'll give these religious people in California credit for stepping up and doing something the government has failed at doing.



Here is what Jesus said:
Luke 17
2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

I don't have any patience nor sympathy for that particular "offense."  I find it absolutely inexcusable and want nothing to do with any human that would harm a child.


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## hevishot (Feb 23, 2010)

i wish they could all be locked in a room with the families of the people they hurt and beaten to death...and God can sort 'em out from there....no sympathy for those wastes of human life..jmo.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

A large percentage of the inmates at the prison that our church has a ministry in are sex offenders. No matter what a person has done in their life, they need and deserve to learn of God's love and redemption.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

hevishot said:


> i wish they could all be locked in a room with the families of the people they hurt and beaten to death...and God can sort 'em out from there....no sympathy for those wastes of human life..jmo.


I used to feel that way too, until I learned that in God's eyes sin is sin. I am no more worthy of forgivness than they are.


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> I used to feel that way too, until I learned that in God's eyes sin is sin. I am no more worthy of forgivness than they are.


Ummmm.  NO.  I seriously doubt stealing a piece of bubble gum is equivalent to molesting a kid in God's eyes.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Here is what Jesus said:
> Luke 17
> 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
> 
> I don't have any patience nor sympathy for that particular "offense."  I find it absolutely inexcusable and want nothing to do with any human that would harm a child.


Taking that out of context a little,aren't we?
He also said..I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Matt25:36
..Inasmuch as ye have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matt.25:40


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Ummmm.  NO.  I seriously doubt stealing a piece of bubble gum is equivalent to molesting a kid in God's eyes.


We may can argue degrees of punishment, but God hates all sin. I repeat: sin is sin.


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> Taking that out of context a little,aren't we?
> He also said..I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Matt25:36
> ..Inasmuch as ye have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matt.25:40


Not really.  You said sins being equal. The Bible does not say that.  One example:

1Jo 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask. 
1Jo 5:17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Ummmm.  NO.  I seriously doubt stealing a piece of bubble gum is equivalent to molesting a kid in God's eyes.



This article addresses the broader sex offender status, not child molesters necessarily.  Keep in mind that this is a status determined by the government....the same government that says most of us are rich.


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> This article addresses the broader sex offender status, not child molesters necessarily.  Keep in mind that this is a status determined by the government....the same government that says most of us are rich.



I would lump rapists in with child molestors.  

Since there are so many definitions what a "sex offendor" is, it would be difficult to address every scenario. I addresssed my feelings on the two that I mentioned.  I wouldn't have anything to do with them personally.

There are obviously people out there "helping" these offendors.  I hope it works for them.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Not really.  You said sins being equal. The Bible does not say that.  One example:
> 
> 1Jo 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask.
> 1Jo 5:17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.


No, I didn't say sins being equal. I said sin is sin. There may be different punishments for sin, but all sin will have consequences.
John is speaking of Christians in that passage. If a Christian has some unconfessed or unrepentant sin in their life that brings reproach to Him, he may take them out of this world. Other sins committed by Christians may earn you a trip to the woodshed. They will be forgiven if confessed, but there are still consequences. David is one example of this.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

hevishot said:


> i wish they could all be locked in a room with the families of the people they hurt and beaten to death...and God can sort 'em out from there....no sympathy for those wastes of human life..jmo.



Going to interpret this as a "no" to my line of questioning.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Feb 23, 2010)

all i have to say...as a probation/parole officer with the GDC I chose the gang and high risk offenders and max out from prisons....I could never take over the sex offender caseload! I don't have the patience or the time....the guys that do supervise that caseload do a superb job and have a lot of guts dealing with that...


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> all i have to say...as a probation/parole officer with the GDC I chose the gang and high risk offenders and max out from prisons....I could never take over the sex offender caseload! I don't have the patience or the time....the guys that do supervise that caseload do a superb job and have a lot of guts dealing with that...



Thanks for your input.  Good to have this perspective.  Did you watch the video?  There's just such an officer prominently displayed.  He is all in favor of such a group... but he seems to be motivated more by the group's success than by any religious dogma.  Give it a viewing.


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Thanks for your input.  Good to have this perspective.  Did you watch the video?  There's just such an officer prominently displayed.  He is all in favor of such a group... but he seems to be motivated more by the group's success than by any religious dogma.  Give it a viewing.


FWIW my views have little to do with religious "dogma" as you said and more to do with basic morality.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 23, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> FWIW my views have little to do with religious "dogma" as you said and more to do with basic morality.



So to arrive at these views you're able to, albeit intermittently, set aside your religious beliefs?


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So to arrive at these views you're able to, albeit intermittently, set aside your religious beliefs?



If I were an atheist, I would have the same views.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

Dawg, believe you me, I understand how you feel. There was a time in my life when I could have happily taken my .45 and gut shot them. That particular crime has touched my family, but they are just as worthy of God's grace and mercy as you,smdh, and I am. Our man made morality doesn't matter.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 23, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> Dawg, believe you me, I understand how you feel. There was a time in my life when I could have happily taken my .45 and gut shot them. That particular crime has touched my family, but they are just as worthy of God's grace and mercy as you,smdh, and I am. Our man made morality doesn't matter.




Oh so true.  I've worked with and know several who have their picture and history posted on the internet site.
I know one who cannot find a church that will allow him to attend.
Did you hear me????????? Can't find a church that will allow him to attend.

If you and I cannot forgive him, God is not going to forgive us.  Plain and simple.
In other words, step up, or shut up.
If you've been changed by God, let's see it.
If it is I who live in you, prove it.

How would you like for God to post a list on this internet site of every sin you've ever committed.

None of us are little sweetpeas.

God forgave us..................... now what?

Take a deep breath, swallow, forgive them and help them receive Jesus.

I just don't see how you have any other choice.

In God, you can find the humility to do it.  And that's what it takes.


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## tell sackett (Feb 23, 2010)

Preach it brother! Amen


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## gordon 2 (Feb 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Oh so true.  I've worked with and know several who have their picture and history posted on the internet site.
> I know one who cannot find a church that will allow him to attend.
> Did you hear me????????? Can't find a church that will allow him to attend.
> 
> ...



Spot on. 

How about if I suggested that "sex offenders are ill" just as much as diabetics that have caused their pancreas to shut down because of repeaded and excessive trips of the fork to their lips?

Ah! but you say "Diabeties does not cause sin." Really! How about diabeties that slowly slowly restricts the blood flow to the brain( the same kind that of blood flow loss that causes limbs to rot off the body) so that folks get progressive and premature dementia and loose insight of their condition or "cannot get it" that the illness is causing havac on themselves and the people they live with ( their families)??? 

How about people with congestive heart failure who could never "live" on a fat free diet? When does this behaviour become sinful in that it robs dependents of freedom because the non-compliant folk become dependent on them!!!???.

Some people have little insight into their behaviors for many reasons. Once upon a time I was one of these "little insight" people and then someone shared the cross with me...and things seem to be getting better.

We are all from somewhere.  Put it this way, if my brother or sister, my mother or father, were sex offenders what honors would I deny them?

Now mind you, I am slow to anger, but....please rescue me from doing harm to someone that injures those close to me. In my anger I might reward harm for harm and all my days will be a struggle to forget for then--- I will be slow to forget.


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## dawg2 (Feb 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Oh so true.  I've worked with and know several who have their picture and history posted on the internet site.
> I know one who cannot find a church that will allow him to attend.
> Did you hear me????????? Can't find a church that will allow him to attend.
> 
> ...



Never said I was perfect.  But let's just say it was your daughter/son or your grandkid who was a victim of one of these people.  Would you change your view or let them sit next to you in church?


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## Ronnie T (Feb 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Never said I was perfect.  But let's just say it was your daughter/son or your grandkid who was a victim of one of these people.  Would you change your view or let them sit next to you in church?



If it were my daughter, I would hope that our system of laws had punished him as it should.  And I'd be angry, and mad.  I'd be a ticking time bomb cause I got lots of gun.
But I would pray for the time when I could allow God to lead me through this.
I actually might have to leave that church for a while, but I just don't think I could ever refuse a sinner the opportunity to fellowship with other sinners.
I admit it's a high road to take, but we're called by God to be mountain climbers.


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## BeenHuntn (Feb 24, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Any of you Christians on here do this?  I know there is a strong hatred for sex offenders in general, but I'm wondering how many ask what Jesus would do.



Jesus would share the Gospel with the sex offender just as he would any other lost person. sin is sin.  we Christians should do the same. hats off to the folks who go into the prisons and do this type of witnessing and glory to God for the prisoners that He saves...


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## pnome (Feb 24, 2010)

"Sex offender" covers a wide variety of things.  Some of which I don't care about.  However, if by "sex offender" you mean "child molester" then....

I'd "_ad_minister" to them.   A swift kick to the crotch!

(Another advantage to not being a Christian, I don't _have_ to forgive anyone.)


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## BeenHuntn (Feb 24, 2010)

pnome said:


> "Sex offender" covers a wide variety of things.  Some of which I don't care about.  However, if by "sex offender" you mean "child molester" then....
> 
> I'd "_ad_minister" to them.   A swift kick to the crotch!
> 
> (Another advantage to not being a Christian, I don't _have_ to forgive anyone.)



another disadvantage of not being a Christian... you fail to realize that "forgiveness" is a great gift from the Lord...  one of the many things unbelievers miss out on...


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## jmharris23 (Feb 24, 2010)

Ronnie you were spot on here! It's sad to think that were are seemingly unable to give the forgiveness given to us.


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## ambush80 (Feb 24, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> another disadvantage of not being a Christian... you fail to realize that "forgiveness" is a great gift from the Lord...  one of the many things unbelievers miss out on...



A non believer can forgive.  They just reason their way to it.  By that process, one might conclude that sometimes forgiveness isn't the answer and in some cases what is best for those involved and the rest of society is vengeance, or extermination.  That's one of the benefits as well as the burdens of not being attached to a prepackaged moral code.


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## possum steak (Feb 24, 2010)

Tough question.

I don't know any sex offenders personally (that I'm aware of) but if I knew of some, would I? I'd say yes.

This is probably one of the hardest things to do, is to put aside one's natural instinct to protect the innocent and minister and help these sex offenders.

I've been trying to help a guy, who in his Church, they took in a sex offender & tried doing this. He seemed to be getting along fine until his friend's daughter told on the guy. <sigh>
His Faith is shaken (why would God allow this?). 

If I were to take these steps, I would:

1. let them know that I WOULD keep an extra eye on them to protect innocent
2. be there to help & pray for every temptation so that he would not act out on it

While yes we can help sex offenders, at the same time, not let them have access to where minors would be. That would be like letting a recovering alcoholic work in a beer store. Protection of children no matter how you have to go about it.


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## earl (Feb 24, 2010)

Child molesters, kill them all ,let God sort them out. And I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over it.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 24, 2010)

possum steak said:


> Tough question.
> 
> I don't know any sex offenders personally (that I'm aware of) but if I knew of some, would I? I'd say yes.
> 
> ...



Agree.  I think that would be the appropriate thing to do.


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## Spotlite (Feb 24, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Any of you Christians on here do this?  I know there is a strong hatred for sex offenders in general, but I'm wondering how many ask what Jesus would do.
> 
> I just saw a program that spotlighted COSA (Circles of Support and Accountability).  I'll give these religious people in California credit for stepping up and doing something the government has failed at doing.



How has the government failed these people. Its not the tax payers responsibility to minister to these folks. We foot the bill enough when they are incarcerated. I dont have a problem with a sex offender that wants to change his life, if God can forgive them, so can I. But at the same time, you got to use your head about it, you dont hire a rehabilitated alcoholic as a bar tender and dont place a rehabilitated sex offender in the role as a sunday school teacher. Ive said it before, sin comes with a price. You reap what you sow, dont sow wild oats on the weekend and pray for a crop failure on Monday morning.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 24, 2010)

Spotlite said:


> How has the government failed these people. Its not the tax payers responsibility to minister to these folks. We foot the bill enough when they are incarcerated. I dont have a problem with a sex offender that wants to change his life, if God can forgive them, so can I. But at the same time, you got to use your head about it, you dont hire a rehabilitated alcoholic as a bar tender and dont place a rehabilitated sex offender in the role as a sunday school teacher. Ive said it before, sin comes with a price. You reap what you sow, dont sow wild oats on the weekend and pray for a crop failure on Monday morning.



Regarding the government's failure - of both us and the offenders - watch the video in the link.  There's no correction or rehabilitation in prison, it would appear.  Just detention. Once they've served their time they are essentially the same offender with the same urges.  Oh and a little angrier at the world.  Looks like these churches are making a measurable difference.  

At any rate this isn't about getting the offender right with God, best I can tell.  It looks like an effort to reduce recidivism.  Very noble, imo.  I see what you're saying regarding reaping what you sow, but once they've been saved and served their time...then what?  These groups are trying to answer that.


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## dawg2 (Feb 24, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Regarding the government's failure - of both us and the offenders - watch the video in the link.  There's no correction or rehabilitation in prison, it would appear.  Just detention. Once they've served their time they are essentially the same offender with the same urges.  Oh and a little angrier at the world.  Looks like these churches are making a measurable difference.
> 
> At any rate this isn't about getting the offender right with God, best I can tell.  It looks like an effort to reduce recidivism.  Very noble, imo.  I see what you're saying regarding reaping what you sow, but once they've been saved and served their time...then what?  These groups are trying to answer that.


There is no "rehabilitating" or "fixing" a pedophile.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> There is no "rehabilitating" or "fixing" a pedophile.



On what do you base this assertion?  The article I linked on COSA argues to the contrary.  The main difference is they have proven it.


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## dawg2 (Feb 24, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> On what do you base this assertion?  The article I linked on COSA argues to the contrary.  The main difference is they have proven it.



Psychology 101.

Do some research.  I don't care what COSA says.  There is no way I would have any rehab'd pedo around my kids.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Do some research.  I don't care what COSA says.  There is no way I would have any rehab'd pedo around my kids.



Can they or can they not be rehabilitated - which is it?  

Why should I do research?  You're the one claiming (at least initially) they can not be rehabilitated.  I asked for proof and you tell me to do the research?  Sorry there, but I don't think you can back up your claim.


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## thedeacon (Feb 24, 2010)

This is the toughest post I have ever made. As almost everyone here would admit, there are just some people in the world today that do not deserve to live, in other words the world would be better off without them. Fortunantly God did not leave me here to make those decisions.

But, saying that, Jesus says that if we can't forgive someone then we can't be forgiven. God says he will not only forgive our sins but he will forget that they ever happened. 

He never said though that we would not have to suffer the consequences of our sins. A rapist, child molester, sex offender has to be punished by law and he will suffer much punishment in other ways.

I do know a man that spent several years in jail for molesting children.  A few weeks ago I sit next to him in church. When he got out of prison he came before the church and literally spelled out his sins to the church when he confessed them, he ask for the forgiveness of the church and of God. What do I do?

I have to forgive him, I even want to forgive him and I can fellowship with him but I wouldn't leave one of my grandkids in his care.  That doesn't mean I accept what he has done.

Some of the people in that particular congregation stopped comeing there when the church allowed him to come back to worship there. I feel it was their lose and not his. 

God is such a wonderful God, lets not under estimate his love andd what he can do for us. Christ died for everyone, he did not leave out the discusting people just for our sake.

Will I ever feel the same about that person. No NO and double No, but I do feel that if I follow the example of Christ (and I am trying to do that) I have to have a forgiving heart.

As far as rehabilitating, God can change the heart of anyone who puts his trust in him.

According to statistics, we all know more sex perverts than we know or will ever know.  God help us all.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Psychology 101.
> 
> Do some research.  I don't care what COSA says.  There is no way I would have any rehab'd pedo around my kids.



How bout if the person has been changed by God?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 25, 2010)

I am living proof that with God's 'therapy'...mercy and grace that someone can change. 
People don't/can't change is bull.

I think pedophiles are demon filled....a demon living thru someone....same as an alcoholic, child abuser, drug addict, whatever. I believe those demons can be rebuked and the person can change.
However if they've done the crime they must do the time, and never let out. Because temptation never dies.

I can murder someone or many people and be changed by God, however I'm still a murderer and must pay the penalty in the flesh....forgiven by God, can go to heaven if truly saved, but yet punished in the world.

I deal with some young girls who's life problems stem from sexual abuse, so it takes away their lives, they will never be the same.
It's really difficult for me to forgive some of these girls attackers because the girls are ruined for life. Even though the convicted may now live in peace, mercy and the grace of God.  It is really hard to be on the polar extreme opposite of sexual abuse.

My granddaughter was sexually abused from the man who lives behind me, I flip him off every time I see him and I know that isn't Christian like by any means. But I think if I can make him miserable for one moment then good.
I have a hard time with this one......but thanks to God I have an awesome opportunity to move to a better place.


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## dawg2 (Feb 25, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Can they or can they not be rehabilitated - which is it?
> 
> Why should I do research?  You're the one claiming (at least initially) they can not be rehabilitated.  I asked for proof and you tell me to do the research?  Sorry there, but I don't think you can back up your claim.


_Sex offenders, such as rapists, pedophiles, and exhibitionists, are among the highest reoccurring offense populations in the United States probation system. These offenders commit crimes that put fear into the general public and pose a threat to people that live in their neighborhoods. These offenders should be punished and not let off or forgiven of their crime(s) just because they have gone through a treatment program, most or which cannot show a significant success rate. _  [LaLaunie Hayes.] 

One of MANY studies that has found an extremely high failure of rehabilitating sex offendors.



thedeacon said:


> This is the toughest post I have ever made. As almost everyone here would admit, there are just some people in the world today that do not deserve to live, in other words the world would be better off without them. Fortunantly God did not leave me here to make those decisions.
> 
> But, saying that, Jesus says that if we can't forgive someone then we can't be forgiven. God says he will not only forgive our sins but he will forget that they ever happened.
> 
> ...


You ar eso correct.  In fact, if people would not sweep it under the rug, people would be very surprised at how many and who they are.



Ronnie T said:


> How bout if the person has been changed by God?


That is all fine and good.  But I would still NEVER allow them access around my children or anyone elses.  There is no way I would take that chance.



mtnwoman said:


> I am living proof that with God's 'therapy'...mercy and grace that someone can change.
> People don't/can't change is bull.
> 
> I think pedophiles are demon filled....a demon living thru someone....same as an alcoholic, child abuser, drug addict, whatever. I believe those demons can be rebuked and the person can change.
> ...



Just a twist: If we can "rehab" an offendor, why can't we fix a lot of the affected?  There is a shelter for abused young girls near me, so I know what you are talking about.  They are scarred for life.  Some of them will NEVER recover from their ordeal.


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## Jeffriesw (Feb 25, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Any of you Christians on here do this?  I know there is a strong hatred for sex offenders in general, but I'm wondering how many ask what Jesus would do.
> 
> I just saw a program that spotlighted COSA (Circles of Support and Accountability).  I'll give these religious people in California credit for stepping up and doing something the government has failed at doing.





Thanks for bringing this up SixMDH, My wife and I have discussed this very topic recently with some other people from Church.
You know it is real easy for someone to love the lovable, but indeed, What do we do with the unlovable?


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## tell sackett (Feb 25, 2010)

Matt.6:12-And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Matt.6:14,15-For if ye forgive men their tresspasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Somehow , I don't get the impression that this is optional. Do I fall short? Yep.
Do I get a pass because it's hard? Nope.

Nobody is saying give a sex offender who has served their time a job teaching Sunday School, but who can justify unforgiveness? We are commanded to forgive them.


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## BeenHuntn (Feb 25, 2010)

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

this is all that matters.


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## earl (Feb 25, 2010)

beenhuntn said:


> matthew 6:15
> but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses.
> 
> This is all that matters.




Wrong wrong wrong wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What matters is making sure that the person never ,ever, ever, ever, has the chance to molest another child.


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## dawg2 (Feb 25, 2010)

earl said:


> Wrong wrong wrong wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What matters is making sure that the person never ,ever, ever, ever, has the chance to molest another child.



I am with Earl on this one.


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## tell sackett (Feb 25, 2010)

Who has said that we're not???


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## earl (Feb 25, 2010)

To truly forgive , you have to trust. To trust a child predater is unforgivable. If you can look into the eyes of your child or grandchild ,and then forgive some one who would or could scar them for the rest of their life, I don't know what to say.


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## tell sackett (Feb 25, 2010)

Thr qualification of trust isn't mentioned in Scripture for forgiveness. We use common sense, but we forgive. See post23.

It's hard to get your mind around if you don't know God's forgiveness. Even then it can be a struggle.


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## limbhanger (Feb 25, 2010)

Investigate some child molestation cases and get back to me. No, they don't deserve to be forgiven because you cannot rehab a child molester.


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## tell sackett (Feb 25, 2010)

limbhanger said:


> Investigate some child molestation cases and get back to me. No, they don't deserve to be forgiven because you cannot rehab a child molester.


So you'll be satisfied with that same forgiveness from God?


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## christianhunter (Feb 25, 2010)

I could and would forgive them if they truly repented and were saved.I would never trust them around children,anyones children,especially my two grandbabies.Trust has nothing to do with forgivness.I might "trust" that a Lion was tame,I wouldn't get in the cage with him,especially with a steak hanging around my neck.The point being,as mtnwoman mentioned above.Sometimes the temptation never leaves,why tempt them.Like the old saying goes,"If you are an ex-alcoholic,stay out of bars."
"If you are an ex-sex addict(not sex offender) stay away from porn and strip clubs".If you are addicted to anything,stay away from things that will tempt you,and possibly feed your lust or desire.(Paraphrased)"Like a roaring lion,satan goes about seeking who he might destroy."
This could apply to the perp and/ or the victim.Like I said,trust has nothing to do with forgivness.THE LORD tells us to lean on HIS Wisdom,not that of man.That applies to trust also,IMO.


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## earl (Feb 25, 2010)

So ,do ya'll think that even though God has forgiven you , He still doesn't trust you not to do whatever it was that you were doing. I forgive you but I'm watching to make sure you don't do that again.
Let's go one further. If you believe you cannot lose your salvation, you can backslide and molest another kid and it will be ''OK ''? If God is going to give a second, third, fourth or even a fifth chance ,are you willing to give the child molester as many chances as God will give you ?  Would you ,or could you forgive them if it was your child or grandchild that was on the receiving end ?


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## ambush80 (Feb 25, 2010)

earl said:


> So ,do ya'll think that even though God has forgiven you , He still doesn't trust you not to do whatever it was that you were doing. I forgive you but I'm watching to make sure you don't do that again.
> Let's go one further. If you believe you cannot lose your salvation, you can backslide and molest another kid and it will be ''OK ''? If God is going to give a second, third, fourth or even a fifth chance ,are you willing to give the child molester as many chances as God will give you ?  Would you ,or could you forgive them if it was your child or grandchild that was on the receiving end ?



There's an actual number of times you can commit the same sin before your salvation is revoked.  Its like 7x7x7x7 times, or something like that.


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## limbhanger (Feb 25, 2010)

So you'll be satisfied with that same forgiveness from God?

I personally feel that there is a special place for child molesters and that sir is Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.


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## ambush80 (Feb 25, 2010)

Seems to me that some of you guys are not trusting God very much.   Can he or can he not turn a molester into a saint or a homosexual into a heterosexual or a rock into a frog?

A molester may claim to be changed into a new person, without a shred of what he was before.  Many of you claim to be saved and changed as well.  You don't believe the molester, why should anyone believe you?  Can the power of the Lord keep an ex drunk from taking a sip even if he were in a vat full of whiskey?  Could he do the same to a saved molester on a playground?

Maybe you doubt the completeness of your conversion and that leads you to doubt the completeness of his.


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## BeenHuntn (Feb 25, 2010)

earl said:


> Wrong wrong wrong wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What matters is making sure that the person never ,ever, ever, ever, has the chance to molest another child.



what are you trying to say earl?? are you telling me i am wrong?  

my point is this... 1) Jesus forgave and told me to forgive, therefore i have to if i want to obey this command.  2) if the criminal gets saved... that is the ONLY way to make sure he will never abuse another child.  therapy wont help him. jail wont help him. drugs wont help him. humanism will not help him. it is humanism (flesh) that caused him to be a pedophile. so to give him more humanism (therapy), wont work...  

... the only way to make sure he never does it again is to kill him or lead him to Christ...


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## earl (Feb 25, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> what are you trying to say earl?? are you telling me i am wrong?
> 
> my point is this... 1) Jesus forgave and told me to forgive, therefore i have to if i want to obey this command.  2) if the criminal gets saved... that is the ONLY way to make sure he will never abuse another child.  therapy wont help him. jail wont help him. drugs wont help him. humanism will not help him. it is humanism (flesh) that caused him to be a pedophile. so to give him more humanism (therapy), wont work...
> 
> ... the only way to make sure he never does it again is to kill him or lead him to Christ...





That is what I said originally . Kill them all ,Let God sort them out . If a volunteer is needed to throw the switch , I will do it . Gladly. 
As far as leading him or her to Christ, some of the worst molesters I have met personally were fine upstanding members of a church. Churches make great places to pick up kids. No one believes a born again Christian is capable of it. When I hear of a church member ,pastor, youth leader ,priest ,etc. getting caught ,I wish they would bring back public execution.


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## BeenHuntn (Feb 25, 2010)

earl said:


> That is what I said originally . Kill them all ,Let God sort them out . If a volunteer is needed to throw the switch , I will do it . Gladly.
> As far as leading him or her to Christ, some of the worst molesters I have met personally were fine upstanding members of a church. Churches make great places to pick up kids. No one believes a born again Christian is capable of it. When I hear of a church member ,pastor, youth leader ,priest ,etc. getting caught ,I wish they would bring back public execution.



earl, fine upstanding church members arent saved (necessarily). but all saved people are saved.  there are fine upstanding church members who are gonna crack helll wide open and folks who dont go to church but are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and would never do such a heinous crime to a child... remember the church going folks say they are saved.  doesnt mean they are. i am not saying the pedophile needs to go to church.... that wont help at all. i am saying the pedophile needs his heart regenerated with the Holy Spirit.


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## pileit (Feb 26, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> A large percentage of the inmates at the prison that our church has a ministry in are sex offenders. No matter what a person has done in their life, they need and deserve to learn of God's love and redemption.




You are right no matter what a person has done they should be taught of God's love and mercy.  They should also be taught the wrath and judgement of God's holy hatred for sin.  IMO  that we should forgive them and visit them in jail only.  IMO that if they miss execution, a child  molestor could serve the remaining part of his/her life in jail and still not pay his/her debt to society for their sick crimes.  Forgive them, teach them, but for their own well being keep them in jail and maybe they will share with the newcomers what they have learned.  No family should have to live in fear of a registerd sex offender in the neighborhood.  When my 5yo nephew was molested by supposedly rehabilitated sex offender, what came out at trial of his victims ranged from 5yo children to a 90yo woman in a nursing home.  I say they need life sentences behind bars, then those of you that feel led to minister to them I bid you God's speed and may you have much fruit for your labour.


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## Israel (Feb 26, 2010)

If God can't save the pedophile, and change the pedophile, then I have neither been saved, nor changed.
But thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ...

Do we ever stop to think that the very same people that determine "psychologically...a pedophile is not capable of rehabilitation"...would have a lot to say about our Lord?

Have you ever known brothers thought "crazy" by the world? If not, with whom do you associate?


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## ambush80 (Feb 26, 2010)

Israel said:


> If God can't save the pedophile, and change the pedophile, then I have neither been saved, nor changed.
> But thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ...
> 
> Do we ever stop to think that the very same people that determine "psychologically...a pedophile is not capable of rehabilitation"...would have a lot to say about our Lord?
> ...



Walkin' the walk. Kudos to you.  

(Personally, I'm a little wary of people with that kind of conviction).


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## earl (Feb 26, 2010)

When ya'll get as good as God in all things ,let me know . Mean while ,I'll let my prejudice tochild molesters be the beam in my eye.


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## Israel (Feb 26, 2010)

earl...there are some things that just seem "too wrong"...and believe me, my blood can run as hot as anyone's when these issues come up...but the very thing that tells us how wrong they are are a testimony to the "rightness" of not taking advantage of the weak for our own pleasure...which always brings me back to the Lord and his grace.
I would be ashamed if all the darkest thoughts and temptations that have passed through my mind and heart were ever displayed openly...or if sometime God just lifted the restraint of his spirit that has kept me from acting upon them.
I know the pleasure of thinking I am better than "some other people"...but I see a deeper truth in that that I cannot deny...that I am no better except for something (which I now know has been someone) that has simply allowed me more self control. 
I think of the girls I used to whistle at while I sat among the construction workers in my youth...but God knew what that whistle really represented, and had I lived in a universe of no restraint how my desires would have gone far beyond a simple whistle.
I believe it is very hard for us to see just how profitless the flesh is for anything "good". 
Even the "best" flesh.


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## thedeacon (Feb 27, 2010)

israel said:


> earl...there are some things that just seem "too wrong"...and believe me, my blood can run as hot as anyone's when these issues come up...but the very thing that tells us how wrong they are are a testimony to the "rightness" of not taking advantage of the weak for our own pleasure...which always brings me back to the lord and his grace.
> I would be ashamed if all the darkest thoughts and temptations that have passed through my mind and heart were ever displayed openly...or if sometime god just lifted the restraint of his spirit that has kept me from acting upon them.
> I know the pleasure of thinking i am better than "some other people"...but i see a deeper truth in that that i cannot deny...that i am no better except for something (which i now know has been someone) that has simply allowed me more self control.
> I think of the girls i used to whistle at while i sat among the construction workers in my youth...but god knew what that whistle really represented, and had i lived in a universe of no restraint how my desires would have gone far beyond a simple whistle.
> ...





what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 27, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> _Sex offenders, such as rapists, pedophiles, and exhibitionists, are among the highest reoccurring offense populations in the United States probation system. These offenders commit crimes that put fear into the general public and pose a threat to people that live in their neighborhoods. These offenders should be punished and not let off or forgiven of their crime(s) just because they have gone through a treatment program, most or which cannot show a significant success rate. _  [LaLaunie Hayes.]
> 
> One of MANY studies that has found an extremely high failure of rehabilitating sex offendors.



So what you've established is that sex offenders have a tendency to relapse.  That was a given and your assertion really changes nothing and I see no need to further beat that dead horse.  

Frankly this thread wasn't intended to be about whether or not they will continue to commit such crimes but rather whether or not as a Christian you can reach out to the most undesirable of people.  Judging by your responses, it appears as though you don't care what the bible says on that topic.  Is that accurate?  If so, are there any other segments of the population for whom you can disregard what Jesus would want you to do?


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 27, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> Thanks for bringing this up SixMDH, My wife and I have discussed this very topic recently with some other people from Church.
> You know it is real easy for someone to love the lovable, but indeed, What do we do with the unlovable?



Yeah man, glad I found it.  I definitely thought of this forum when I saw the program.  It seems some Christians on here think God  is not powerful enough to overcome certain things.  It's been an eye-opener!


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## tell sackett (Feb 27, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Frankly this thread wasn't intended to be about whether or not they will continue to commit such crimes but rather whether or not as a Christian you can reach out to the most undesirable of people.  Judging by your responses, it appears as though you don't care what the bible says on that topic.  Is that accurate?  If so, are there any other segments of the population for whom you can disregard what Jesus would want you to do?


Smdh, In all honesty I have to say that I consider a lot of your posts to be either or  but when I read this I have to say "ouch" and agree with you.

I think some of the posters in this thread are confusing forgiveness with doing away with punishment. They are two entirely different things. If a person harms a chid, should they be punished? Absolutely, if they are tried and found guilty, then they should go to prison. This does not mean that they can't accept Christ as savior and be forgiven. Their souls are just as precious to God as any of ours.


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## thedeacon (Feb 27, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So what you've established is that sex offenders have a tendency to relapse.  That was a given and your assertion really changes nothing and I see no need to further beat that dead horse.
> 
> Frankly this thread wasn't intended to be about whether or not they will continue to commit such crimes but rather whether or not as a Christian you can reach out to the most undesirable of people.  Judging by your responses, it appears as though you don't care what the bible says on that topic.  Is that accurate?  If so, are there any other segments of the population for whom you can disregard what Jesus would want you to do?




Partly you are right here, but I challange you to go back and read some of the more positive post on here. There are some on here that seem to be very forgiving on this subject.

Not everyone here has the attitude of be gone with you sinner I don't care. That is surely not my attitude. 

Please take the time to read my post and some others.


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## Six million dollar ham (Feb 27, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Partly you are right here, but I challange you to go back and read some of the more positive post on here. There are some on here that seem to be very forgiving on this subject.
> 
> Not everyone here has the attitude of be gone with you sinner I don't care. That is surely not my attitude.
> 
> Please take the time to read my post and some others.



No need, because I know what you mean without looking back.  That post was a response to Dawg2.  

I've acknowledged a few more positive, forgiving posts already.


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## thedeacon (Feb 27, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> No need, because I know what you mean without looking back.  That post was a response to Dawg2.
> 
> I've acknowledged a few more positive, forgiving posts already.



No post #43 is my own heartfelt thoughts and not a response to anyone, But I do feel bad that there are people that claim there christianity and say they have been forgiven but turn in the same sentence and say that they can't forgive. I just don't get it.

This is a good eyeopening thread, thank you for it.


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## Amaris (Mar 21, 2010)

Not everyone on the registry sexually molested a child.  Current laws make no distinction in the actual crime committed.  Mooning, teens sexting, urinating in public, and consensual sex with a minor (Romeo and Juliet cases) are crimes that can land a person on the sex offender registry.  I read an article that said 1 out of 160 men are on the registry.  What kind of odds does that leave our young boys and men in this world with out of control legislation?  Currently, teenagers pose the greatest risk to children and are being added to the registry daily.    Our churches should be a place of healing and acceptance...this world certainly isn't.  God is our only hope and He is the answer.


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 21, 2010)

limbhanger said:


> I personally feel that there is a special place for child molesters and that sir is Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.



So their sin is stronger than your God's ability to cleanse them?  Interesting.


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## post450 (Mar 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So their sin is stronger than your God's ability to cleanse them?  Interesting.



Their sin is stronger than our present ability to discern. I don't see how it has anything to do with our God's capabilities.

We don't know who is truly forgiven, changed, or saved and all we have is their word. Time usually proves one's claim as genuine or false, but where are we as Christians commanded to wager a child's innocence on their verbal claim?  

I Timothy 5:8 says "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

I am commanded by God to provide for my family (children) which beside physical necessities includes physical and emotional protection. I personally feel separation from these types of people to be in the best interests of my children but obviously there are some who are called into this type of ministry.

As to the OP, I applaud the CA groups efforts to reach those who are a terror to society. Many studies have shown that molestation is commonly a cycle with offenders typically having been molested themselves as children. I certainly believe God can break these cycles through ministries like these. Thank you Ham for bringing this into light.


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## polkhunt (Mar 26, 2010)

I did not take time to read all these postings so this may have been said before but this is my take on it. This thread started on the subject of sex offenders not just child molesters. I think that Christians should be reaching out to any lost soul and we should forgive them just like any other person who has sinned just like God would. I will use King David as an example he had sex with Bathsheba probably against her will and then had Uriah killed, that in my mind is a sex offender and a muderer. I truly think that David did repent but it took God taking his child with Bathsheba to make him realize he needed to . My point in all this is we should forgive but hold them accountable and let them know that their sin comes with consequences whether it be prison or death or whatever.


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## Flatbow (Mar 28, 2010)

God can save anyone ....regardless.  We should minister to _anyone._
But, the Bible does take very seriously the offence to children, I believe they should have the oppurtunity to repent.......but that does not mean they should escape the consequences.......in my opnion for child molestors that are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, should be put to death.


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## dawg2 (Mar 28, 2010)

Flatbow said:


> God can save anyone ....regardless.  We should minister to _anyone._
> But, the Bible does take very seriously the offence to children, I believe they should have the oppurtunity to repent.......but that does not mean they should escape the consequences.......in my opnion for child molestors that are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, should be put to death.


Yes it does.  So do I.  I have no patience for that kind of person.  He can work that out with God.


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## tell sackett (Mar 28, 2010)

I am so thankful that God doesn't have the same attitude towards us that we sometimes show towards others.


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## Ronnie T (Mar 28, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> I am so thankful that God doesn't have the same attitude towards us that we sometimes show towards others.



I agree.  We all better agree.
My spiritual existance depends on my being forgiven.
If you don't know how to forgive "anyone", you better be learning how.
If I cannot forgive and accept a repentant sex offender, then I'm not going to receive forgiveness.


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## Huntinfool (Mar 29, 2010)

earl said:


> To truly forgive , you have to trust. To trust a child predater is unforgivable. If you can look into the eyes of your child or grandchild ,and then forgive some one who would or could scar them for the rest of their life, I don't know what to say.



I disagree.....forgiving does not require forgetting.

As christians, earl, we are required to forgive...always.  There is nothing that requires us to forget or be stupid about who is around our children unsupervised.


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