# River Duck Hunting



## Bigdipper

Where are the regs regarding duck hunting Georgia rivers? (i.e. ogeechee, oconee, savannah etc)

Or can somebody fill me in on the basics so i know what is/isnt legal? thanks guys

BD


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## Gut_Pile

don't get out of your boat and you'll be fine.


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## Bigdipper

Haha that's the kinda straightforward answer I needed thanks man


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## GSURugger

it is a good answer.  this comes up every year, search through the threads here, i know there are a few that have allot of differing opinions on what is defined as a "navigatable water"


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## Boudreaux

Gut_Pile said:


> don't get out of your boat and you'll be fine.



Bad advice.

If the river runs across someone's property and is not defined as a navigable, you are trespassing.  The Soque River in north GA is a good example of this.  I've done research on hunting in and talked to various DNR agents about it.  The answer keeps coming up the same.

Here is some results of research:

http://www.ngaproperty.com/toccoariver.htm

Georgia Law Regarding 
Landowner Property Rights 
on Toccoa River and Non-Navigable 
Streams and Rivers 
______________________________________

HOME 

Disclaimer 
The information on this site should be considered "as-is" and should be verified. The maintainers of this site make an effort, when possible, to try to verify the information, but we are not lawyers and, therefore, we cannot and will not give legal advice. If you need accurate answers, hire an attorney who is licensed in the state in question or feel free to verify the information with the state and federal government. Some of the information provided on this site is directly from http://www.legis.state.ga.us which is an official website maintained by the State of Georgia. __________________________________________________ _________________ 



LEGAL RESEARCH BY TRIPP BRIDGES (http://www.olemiss.edu/orgs/SGLC/Nat...3.1comment.htm)

Tripp Bridges is a third-year law student at the University of Georgia School of Law in Athens, Georgia. The views expressed below are the author’s own. This article does not necessarily reflect the opinions and positions of the National Sea Grant Law Center and its affiliates.

Georgia is fortunate to have many rivers that can be used for recreational boating. Canoeing and kayaking are recreational activities enjoyed by many people in the state. These numbers will undoubtedly increase with the population growth of Atlanta and its suburbs. Generally canoeists have enjoyed relatively free access to many of Georgia’s larger rivers, however in recent years there have been some notable exceptions.


The following two cases exemplify the problems that the public has had in gaining access to some of Georgia’s non-navigable rivers. In Georgia Canoeing Assoc. v. Henry, 482 S.E.2d 298, 267 Ga. App. 814 (1997), the Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court’s opinion that the public did not have a right of passage down Armuchee Creek where it flowed through Mr. Henry’s land. The Georgia Canoeing Association was seeking to enjoin Mr. Henry from stopping free passage by the public down the river. In Givens v. Ichauway, Inc., 493 S.E.2d 148, 268 Ga. 710 (1997), the court found that the Ichauwaynochaway Creek was non-navigable, and therefore inaccessible to boaters, even though the appellant was able to navigate a small raft carrying two people, a goat, and a bale of cotton in attempts to prove navigability under the standard of commerce of the nineteenth century.


As illustrated by the aforementioned cases, current Georgia law does not allow a right of passage for the public down non-navigable rivers. According to O.C.G.A. § 44-8-2 the adjacent landowner owns the bed of a non-navigable river to the midpoint, and if the landowner owns both sides of the river, then ownership extends to the entire streambed. The same is true if the river is a boundary between properties; the landowners both own to the midpoint, and could join together and prohibit passage down the river.1 The legislature passed this law long before the start of any significant recreational boating in the region. This section of the code effectively prohibits the public from using many of Georgia’s scenic rivers. Consideration should be given to changing it to allow a right of through passage down non-navigable rivers.


At this time Georgia boaters only have a right of passage down navigable waters. Georgia’s definition of navigable is surprisingly restrictive. Under Georgia law, navigable streams are those “capable of transporting boats loaded with freight in the regular course of trade either for the whole or a part of the year. The mere rafting of timber or the transporting of wood in small boats shall not make a stream navigable.”2 Few rivers in Georgia qualify under Georgia law as navigable due to the fact many barges are over 200 feet long, and few rivers would be able to support such boats.3 This restrictive definition precludes a right of passage on most of Georgia’s rivers, including the Chattooga, Chestatee, and Toccoa, which are frequently used for canoeing.



GA DNR Q AND A (http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga....xtDocument=421)

Q: How is navigability defined in Georgia? How does this relate to public access to waterways for the purposes of fishing, hunting, and boating?

A: This is a complex issue in Georgia because of the difficulty in determining whether or not a stream is navigable as described by Georgia law. The following definitions in Georgia law describe navigable streams and tidewaters:

O.C.G.A. §44-8-5(a) Navigable stream means a stream which is capable of transporting boats loaded with freight in the regular course of trade either for the whole or a part of the year. The mere rafting of timber or the transporting of wood in small boats shall not make a stream navigable. 
O.C.G.A. §44-8-7 Navigable tidewater is any tidewater, the sea or any inlet thereof, or any other bed of water where the tide regularly ebbs and flows which is in fact used for the purposes of navigation or is capable of transporting at mean low tide boats loaded with freight in the regular course of trade. The mere rafting of timber thereon or the passage of small boats thereover, whether for the transportation of persons or freight, shall not be deemed navigation within the meaning of this code section and shall not make tidewaters navigable. 

These definitions were formulated in 1863 and speak in rather archaic terms. Therefore, the navigability of streams under state law is often decided on a case-by-case basis through court litigation.

The question of whether a stream is open to the public for fishing, boating, etc., must be determined on its physical characteristics and history, especially for smaller streams. It comes down to whether the state owns the bottom (bed) of the stream or if the adjacent landowner owns it. The state owns the bed of navigable streams and adjacent landowners own the bed of non-navigable streams. If the state owns the bed, the stream is open to the public for fishing, wading, boating, and other public use and the owner of the adjacent land only owns to the low water mark (edge) on the bed of the stream [Official Code of Georgia Annotated (O.C.G.A.) §44-8-5(b)]. If the stream is non-navigable, the adjacent landowner may determine who can and cannot come onto the stream to fish or boat. If different landowners own the land adjacent on either side of a stream, they each own to the thread or center of the main current.

A good rule of thumb is to always ask for permission to hunt and fish on private lands first to avoid problems.



QUICK FACTS (not opinions)

-The Toccoa River is legally classified as a non-navigable river. Opinions may vary on which rivers should or should not be classified navigable or non-navigable, however, the Toccoa river is still legally classified as a non-navigable river as are most rivers in Georgia. The status of navigable or non-navigable is not an opinion left up to individuals to decide upon, it is a legal classification.

-Property owners that own both sides of a non-navigable stream or adjacent property owners who let the public float through their property are doing so by their own choice. They do NOT have to let you pass (or FISH) through property on rivers classified non-navigable. This is a fact, not an opinion. It can be verified by trying to pass through some of the other rivers in Georgia, just like the Toccoa, that have been closed to passage for years. If you attempt to pass through you will be arrested and/or ticketed. You can verify this by contacting the appropriate authorities and asking if you can pass through or fish.

-Owning property on non-navigable rivers and streams is how private fishing outfitters legally operate and it is also how the cattle industry is able to legally fence in the river to keep cattle inside their property

-There are many non-navigable rivers (most rivers in Georgia are classified non-navigable) and streams which have sections closed (and/or fenced) to passage by any means. I.E. golf course's, fishing outfitters, cattle farmers, land owners, etc.

-Dozens of people are arrested each year for either not knowing the law or knowingly disagreeing with the law. 

-It is your responsibility to know the law. It is NOT the property owners responsibility to explain the law to you if you are trespassing.

-Just because you have floated through private property before does not mean you can continue to do so after the property has been posted.

-The property does not have to be posted (keep out, no trespassing, etc) in order for you to be trespassing. If the property owner (or someone authorized) verbally asks you to leave, and you do not leave, then you are trespassing.



-Remember, these are laws. Not everybody likes every law, but they are still laws non the less and there are consequences for breaking the law.



Regarding the fish(fact)

Many people will argue that nobody "owns" the fish in the river. They are exactly correct. Per DNR, It is no different than a deer standing on private property that is posted. The land owner does not own the deer, however, while the deer is on his property nobody can harm the deer or kill the deer. Per DNR, this is the same for fish in a river legally classified non-navigable in which the landowner owns both sides of the river and posts the river for "no fishing".

Disclaimer 
The information on this site should be considered "as-is" and should be verified. The maintainers of this site make an effort, when possible, to try to verify the information, but we are not lawyers and, therefore, we cannot and will not give legal advice. If you need accurate answers, hire an attorney who is licensed in the state in question or feel free to verify the information with the state and federal government. Some of the information provided on this site is directly from http://www.legis.state.ga.us which is an official website maintained by the State of Georgia.​


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## leeledger

I didn't read the above answer (I will when I have more time).
The are DNR maintained boat ramps on the Kinchafoonee in Lee County. Land adjacent to the boat ramps it private. If the DNR thinks it is open to the public that is good enough for me. Just stay in the water not on the land.


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## leeledger

Okay I read the article. I still think I can float down the Kinchafoonee Creek (which has the same landowner on both sides of the creek. If this was illegal the DNR should not have built boat ramps for public access.


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## Boudreaux

leeledger said:


> Okay I read the article. I still think I can float down the Kinchafoonee Creek (which has the same landowner on both sides of the creek. If this was illegal the DNR should not have built boat ramps for public access.



I hope what you "think" doesn't land you with a trespass charge or a poaching charge when you violate the law.  The landowner may be generous and allow access - for now.  Or the landowner may not own all the land that is accessible by the boat ramp.

I hope everything works out, but if you get a ticket you will have only yourself to blame.  

Please don't suggest to others here or elsewhere that they should ignore the law and just rely on what they "think" they should be allowed to do.


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## Nicodemus

Boudreaux said:


> I hope what you "think" doesn't land you with a trespass charge or a poaching charge when you violate the law.  The landowner may be generous and allow access - for now.  Or the landowner may not own all the land that is accessible by the boat ramp.
> 
> I hope everything works out, but if you get a ticket you will have only yourself to blame.
> 
> Please don't suggest to others here or elsewhere that they should ignore the law and just rely on what they "think" they should be allowed to do.





The ramp he is talkin` about was built, and is maintained by the Georgia DNR, and has one of their big trademark signs beside it. Their is also the classic brown and white boatramp sign with the arrow, out on the highway, pointin` to it. I do believe the landowner in this case, is the DNR.


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## leeledger

The DNR has two boat ramps on the creek. The land between the ramps (10 miles at least is owned by privately). The press release the sent out when the ramps were constructed stated that the ramps were to give public acess to the creek. They encourage fishing the creek. 
I agree the law is "vague". But I think it would be hard to press charges against someone when you put in and take out from public ramps.
I was part of the river's alive program yesterday. We put in on 32 in Leesburg and took out at a FEMA lot on Century road. The only time we were trespassing was when we stepped out of the boats to load up a car tire into the canoes.


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## Bigdipper

Maybe I'm talking to the wrong crowd here but I don't think anyone should OWN the river....


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## Hankus

They don't OWN the river jus the land it traverses


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## Boudreaux

Hankus said:


> They don't OWN the river jus the land it traverses



Correct, which is why the laws speak of the "river bed".  From what I have learned, the water belongs to the State of Georgia.  If Georgia's water crosses your land, you can restrict the access to the water that flows across your river bed, however, you cannot restrict the flow of the water across your property.

Basically, you can't Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- up Georgia's water if it crosses your land, but you can keep any yahoo with a boat or a tube from floating across your property if you'd like.


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## Boudreaux

Bigdipper said:


> Maybe I'm talking to the wrong crowd here but I don't think anyone should OWN the river....



I don't "think" several laws we have are fair, make sense, etc.  Doesn't change the fact that the laws are written as they are.

Educate yourself on this matter.  It's cheaper than a poaching or trespassing ticket.


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## Bigdipper

Thanks for the info guys it brought a lot of new things to light.

Kinda makes me ashamed of our political system and landowners who feel they can control the river.


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## Twenty five ought six

All rivers above the fall line are non-navigable, with one exception that's not relevant.

If a landowner owns both sides of a non-navigable waterway, he can control who traverses his property.  That principal has been well established in several Georgia cases.  It does matter if you touch bottom, anchor up, or recite the Lord's prayer -- that is a legal fact in this state.

"Navigability" is determined by a statute that is based on 18th century standards, but that's the way it is.  Note that the state DOES own the water, and the right to use that water for commerce, but in 1848 (or thereabouts) it "gave" that right to adjoining landowners of non-navigable waters.  At the time of this action, many rivers in Georgia were not even in private ownership --the land was still "wild".  The landowner does not "own" the water, but he does control passage over that water, due to state action.

DNR has built boat ramps all over the state on waters that are technically private.

Whether or not you can hunt on a particular piece of river is more a matter of local custom, and forbearance by the landowner.  If there is any doubt in your mind as to a particular location, the best thing to do is check with the local game warden.


This river access issue keeps coming up in different contexts, and there is still only one answer.


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## Boudreaux

Bigdipper said:


> Thanks for the info guys it brought a lot of new things to light.
> 
> Kinda makes me ashamed of our political system and landowners who feel they can control the river.



The landowners don't feel they can control the river, they do, however, have the legal authority to regulate who travels over their land.

Consider a few things - tomorrow you win the lottery and buy yourself a beautiful piece of property, with a river running through it.  You work hard (or hire a land manager to work hard for you) and have a beautiful retreat for hunting and fishing.  Now do you want every redneck in 150 miles floating across your property, ignoring the game management plan you have in place on your property, littering your property, defecating on your property, etc?  Well probably not.

Consider this.  You own a piece of property and have it posted.  You find someone riding ATVs all over the property without permission.  You'd have the arrested for trespassing if you caught them.  Now take a section of that property that is 10 ft wide and put 4 feet of water in the form of a GA river on it.  Someone floating down in a boat or tube is now doing the same thing that those ATV riders were doing.  Accessing your property without permission.

It sometimes sucks for the sportsmen, but private property rights are fundamental to this country.  Unfortunately, too many people do not respect landowners, their wishes, or their property, or want to sue property owners, which often leads to no access for everyone.

Don't be upset with the private property owners. Be upset with those who have abused the generosity of private property access before you.


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## Bigdipper

Boudreaux said:


> The landowners don't feel they can control the river, they do, however, have the legal authority to regulate who travels over their land.
> 
> Consider a few things - tomorrow you win the lottery and buy yourself a beautiful piece of property, with a river running through it.  You work hard (or hire a land manager to work hard for you) and have a beautiful retreat for hunting and fishing.  Now do you want every redneck in 150 miles floating across your property, ignoring the game management plan you have in place on your property, littering your property, defecating on your property, etc?  Well probably not.
> 
> Consider this.  You own a piece of property and have it posted.  You find someone riding ATVs all over the property without permission.  You'd have the arrested for trespassing if you caught them.  Now take a section of that property that is 10 ft wide and put 4 feet of water in the form of a GA river on it.  Someone floating down in a boat or tube is now doing the same thing that those ATV riders were doing.  Accessing your property without permission.
> 
> It sometimes sucks for the sportsmen, but private property rights are fundamental to this country.  Unfortunately, too many people do not respect landowners, their wishes, or their property, or want to sue property owners, which often leads to no access for everyone.
> 
> Don't be upset with the private property owners. Be upset with those who have abused the generosity of private property access before you.



That was a great explanation man. Landowners and those who enjoy Georgia's rivers just have to respect each other and understand the law.


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## gaturkey99

Boudreaux said:


> It sometimes sucks for the sportsmen, but private property rights are fundamental to this country.  Unfortunately, too many people do not respect landowners, their wishes, or their property, or want to sue property owners, which often leads to no access for everyone.
> 
> Don't be upset with the private property owners. Be upset with those who have abused the generosity of private property access before you.



this is a great post. it is pretty frustrating but it's the truth


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## Flaustin1

I hate to beat a dead horse but some "non-navagable"(by state definition)water ways are owned by the U.S. Corps. of Engineers, and although they have private land on both sides the Corps. owns a small portion along its banks(i.e. Broad river on the border of elbert and lincoln counties)and can be hunted by the public.  Its a very fine yet unclear line drawn on whats legal and whats not.  I had this problem on the broad several years back but with the help of a friendly warden, it was clarifyed for me and in my SPECIFIC case i could hunt the river as long as i didnt go beyond the Corps boundries.


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## Boudreaux

Flaustin1 said:


> I hate to beat a dead horse but some "non-navagable"(by state definition)water ways are owned by the U.S. Corps. of Engineers, and although they have private land on both sides the Corps. owns a small portion along its banks(i.e. Broad river on the border of elbert and lincoln counties)and can be hunted by the public. Its a very fine yet unclear line drawn on whats legal and whats not. I had this problem on the broad several years back but with the help of a friendly warden, it was clarifyed for me and in my SPECIFIC case i could hunt the river as long as i didnt go beyond the Corps boundries.


 
In this case the Corp was the owner of the river bed and chose to let you hunt it.  Glad you were able to work that out and gain the access.  And it sounds as if you took the right approach.


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## Gaducker

If theres a public boat ramp Then I am huntin both up and down stream as far as I can until I see posted signs. I have float hunted a few miles of river in my time and never run into a ticket although I have been checked a few times. I also have never seen any streams with posted signs in or on the water way.  I have seen signs up off the bank about 20 yards in but never had land owners come runnin to get me.  I guess you can say I learn the hard way?????


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## leeledger

*trespassing?*

At least read the last line.
This is a old press release from the DNR.
There is land downstream owned by where the property lines cross the creek.


Construction has been completed on a new concrete boat ramp on the Kinchafoonee Creek announces the Georgia Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Wildlife Resources Division (WRD). The ramp is located on the Department of Transportation's (DOT) right-of-way at the State Route 45 Bridge over the Kinchafoonee Creek in southern Webster County.
"I am pleased that the new 'Bottsford Public Boat Ramp' is now completed. It will make launching small boats at this location on the Kinchafoonee Creek much safer and easier," said Russ Ober, WRD Regional Supervisor for Fisheries Management.
"While this creek is fairly small, it does produce some good fishing - even when the water is low and anglers have to spend time pulling their boats over downed trees that partially block the stream channel."
Anglers who visit this area of the Kinchafoonee Creek can expect to catch largemouth bass, channel catfish, bluegill and redbreast sunfish. Ober said that during a recent visit to the ramp site he watched a fisherman haul out a nice two to three pound bass within a few minutes of starting to fish beneath the bridge.
"I truly appreciate the cooperation that DOT Commissioner Tom Coleman and his staff extended to our Department in helping to make this new public access area a reality," said DNR Commissioner Lonice Barrett. "Commissioner Coleman's workers upgraded the access road into the site and did the initial site preparation, while our staff concentrated on building the ramp. By working together, our two departments were able to complete this ramp in a very short time. This was a real team effort."
State Senator George Hooks of Americus, along with State Representative Bob Hanner of Parrott, pushed for the building of this new boat ramp. Senator Hooks said he was proud that DNR and DOT were able to work together to provide this new facility for the sportsmen of southwest Georgia. Several years ago, Senator Hooks was approached by a group of area citizens that were concerned that there was not enough good public access to the Kinchafoonee Creek. Through Senator Hook's work with Representative Hanner, the Chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, and employees from DNR, local anglers now have good access at this location and also at the Henry Binns Ramp completed last summer and located just south of the State Route 118 Bridge on the Kinchafoonee in Terrell County on the Terrell County - Lee County Line.

While these two ramps have opened up the Kinchafoonee for a lot of good public fishing, anglers are reminded that the land on both sides of the stream is privately owned and the property rights of the landowners must be respected.[/B][/B]


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## Gaducker

leeledger said:


> At least read the last line.
> This is a old press release from the DNR.
> There is land downstream owned by where the property lines cross the creek.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While these two ramps have opened up the Kinchafoonee for a lot of good public fishing, anglers are reminded that the land on both sides of the stream is privately owned and the property rights of the landowners must be respected.[/B][/B]




Looks like it says dont step on the land and dont litter up the land.  AT least thats they way I read it.


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## Boudreaux

Gaducker said:


> Looks like it says dont step on the land and dont litter up the land. AT least thats they way I read it.


 
In this case, it appears so.  This specifically states that the land on both sides is privately own, it does not speak of the river bed.  <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
I would not assume that this one press release gives you the same access on other GA waters, and I'd carry a copy of the article with me while fishing there.  <o></o>
 <o></o>
At least if the DNR agent interprets the law differently, you can show him and then the judge the article in your defense.  My guess is that an article or an interview with anyone at DNR does not carry the same weight as the actual state law, but you may find leniency.<o></o>


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## leeledger

I actually agree with you on what the law says. I wish someone (besides the Woodruff Foundation) would try to close a creek. The law should be the same for all bodies of water. I think a river's keepers group could sue to open a river back up that has state funded boat ramps on it.


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## Boudreaux

leeledger said:


> I actually agree with you on what the law says. I wish someone (besides the Woodruff Foundation) would try to close a creek. The law should be the same for all bodies of water. I think a river's keepers group could sue to open a river back up that has state funded boat ramps on it.


 
The Soque River in NEGA is closed to the public, for the most part.  The State owns the water, but the river bed is private.

I also wish that I could travel the state water, but it's not worth the ticket to me.

I think you've got an excellent point about State funded boat ramps.


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## georgiaboy

Boudreaux said:


> The Soque River in NEGA is closed to the public, for the most part.  The State owns the water, but the river bed is private.
> 
> I also wish that I could FISH the state water, but it might actually be worth the ticket to me.
> 
> I think you've got an excellent point about State funded boat ramps.



Fixed it for you, based on my beliefs, lol.


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## mauser64

I tend to come down on the land owner side of this one.  Most arguments seem to be trying to justify a reason to get free access to land that somebody has worked thir butt off to pay for. Most that is. The one that brings up the DNR ramp is a good one.


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## thompsonsz71

Flaustin1 said:


> I hate to beat a dead horse but some "non-navagable"(by state definition)water ways are owned by the U.S. Corps. of Engineers, and although they have private land on both sides the Corps. owns a small portion along its banks(i.e. Broad river on the border of elbert and lincoln counties)and can be hunted by the public.  Its a very fine yet unclear line drawn on whats legal and whats not.  I had this problem on the broad several years back but with the help of a friendly warden, it was clarifyed for me and in my SPECIFIC case i could hunt the river as long as i didnt go beyond the Corps boundries.



i believe on a corp body of water (i.e. clarks hill) the corp owns 30 ft of back off of the high water mark.... which right now is about 40 ft off the waters edge.....

also if someone on here is gonna hunt the savannah or clarks hill,hartwell,or russell, you might want to buy a sc liscense as well! either that or stay on the ga side of the channel, which sucks of the savannah rive cause the channel splits right where i want to hunt.....


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## boz614

horseshoe island, eh thompsonsz71?  off of river island retreat?  i'm too cheap to pay the sc license and know sc dnr patrols it heavily, plus know lots of folks hunt it, but i do like watching the teal and mallards from the bank.  too bad most of it (the part with the birds) is in sc!


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## farmerboy3744

I'm a member of the GA soil and water.. any water that leaves one property onto another is considered state water.. if u can get in the water without trespassing u can nagivate the water..now if u get out of the boat your are trespassing and can be charged. so as long as u are in the boat u're perfectly fine... plus as long as u ant makin a fool of your self and littering or makin excessive noise then most ppl wont bother you.. but be courdious and dont hunt in ear shot of houses


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## across the river

boz614 said:


> horseshoe island, eh thompsonsz71?  off of river island retreat?  i'm too cheap to pay the sc license and know sc dnr patrols it heavily, plus know lots of folks hunt it, but i do like watching the teal and mallards from the bank.  too bad most of it (the part with the birds) is in sc!



All the SC guys say the birds are in Georgia.  Heck, a bunch of them hunt the Georgia side anyway.


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