# Why is a 45 Cal blackpowder so hard to find



## Luckybuck (Dec 16, 2010)

Almost always the catalogs I receive only offer 50 Cal rifles.  Wasn't but about 2-3 years ago you could choose .45 or .50 cal.  What has changed.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 16, 2010)

.45s are a bit marginal for deer, so most people don't buy them. Kinda like hunting with a .223 centerfire-you can kill deer with it, but not the best choice. A couple of companies were trying to push the "fast, flat .45" concept a few years ago, but it never took off. In my experience, the bigger diameter projectile the better with black powder.


----------



## georgia_home (Dec 16, 2010)

i ask the same question about 54.

the answer is about the same as vhs vs betamax.

50 won. 45 and 54... not so much. 45 is leading 54 though...


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 16, 2010)

I love my .54-lots of traditional shooters still totin' .54s. Never took off with inlines, though.


----------



## Bernard goldsmith (Dec 16, 2010)

It's something like lg eggs med eggs small eggs which taste the best??? Beats me!!


----------



## georgia_home (Dec 16, 2010)

NCH, I hear ya... I do love my remmy 700/54.

Sabots are very hard to find now. Last time I found them, I ordered extra, but...


----------



## jkoch (Dec 16, 2010)

50 will do everything a a 45 will do and you still have more in "reserve" if you need it!


----------



## Luckybuck (Dec 16, 2010)

I have had both and last 3 years used my .45 and every deer dropped in its tracks.  Took 2 this year, and one each year the prior two.  All 4 did not move.  But, also had same results with the .50 cal when I hunted with it.  Was just curious as I would like to get another .45 but they just are not out there.


----------



## DS7418 (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a CVA Kodiak 45calb and a CVA Electra 50calb ,, both kill the same to me.


----------



## NwRedFisher (Dec 17, 2010)

Do the 45s penitrate better ?


----------



## Back_40 (Dec 22, 2010)

NCHillbilly;5603787
[B said:
			
		

> .45s are a bit marginal for deer[/B], ....



Not sure I follow you? I shoot .40 cal 200 grn deadcenters with 100 grns loose T7 in my .45 cal CVA and the results are more devistating than the Hornady Interbonds that I shoot out of my .270.


----------



## STRAIGHTARROW (Dec 22, 2010)

IMO the .45's are going by the wayside due to the fact that most muzzle loaders sold now days are .50 in-line ignition types with twist rates designed to fire sabot's with .44-.45 cal bullets anyway... and they are doing the job just fine, as would a .45 round ball if properly placed on an animal and the shot taken within the limits of the gun and the shooter.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 22, 2010)

Back_40 said:


> Not sure I follow you? I shoot .40 cal 200 grn deadcenters with 100 grns loose T7 in my .45 cal CVA and the results are more devistating than the Hornady Interbonds that I shoot out of my .270.



Didn't say it wouldn't kill a deer, especially if you know how to shoot it, which you obviously do if you're getting good results with it. I've seen plenty of deer killed with .45s shooting patched round balls. But a .45 muzzleoader is not much bigger in caliber than a traditional squirrel rifle, and is a hundreth of an inch in caliber above the .44 minimum caliber allowed for deer hunting. You're pretty much ballistically shooting a .410 shotgun slug, which is enough if you do your part, but if I'm not mistaken, would be illegal to deer hunt with in GA. You can't compare blackpowder calibers to centerfire calibers, they behave a lot differently. 100 grains is a lot of powder for a .45, too-a third of it is probably blowing out the end of the barrel without even being burned. 90 grains in my .50 sidelock will put a 350-grain conical completely through a deer at a hundred yards.


----------



## watermedic (Dec 22, 2010)

I shoot 150 grains of pyrodex out of my Omega .45. It shoots a lot flatter than a .50 cal. Hunting in thick woods maybe the .50 is as good of a choice, but not on open gas lines or out west.

I can load my .45 with 100 grns of powder and a 190 grain bullet a my boys have been shooting it since they were 9 yrs old. Considerable less recoil and the deer that they shot were DRT.


----------



## DS7418 (Dec 23, 2010)

Mike:
 May I ask, what type/brand of powder do you use???
Just curious here..


----------



## Luckybuck (Dec 23, 2010)

Shot 2 deer this year with the .45 cal using 195 grain hollow point.  One had 100 grains of powder and other loaded with 150 grains of powder.  The deer I shot with the 150 grains of powder tore a massive hole in the deer larger than anything I have ever experienced.  With a 100 grains of powder and same bullet, the entry and exit hole looked just like my 30.06 with 150 grain.  End result, both dropped and never moved.


----------



## Michael F. Gray (Dec 23, 2010)

I've had a Thompson-Center .45 for many years. Not certain how many deer Dad,(borrowed it, and I didn't get it back till he passed), and I have taken with it. Has a good 3-9X scope on it, and with Mini-balls is acurate and never failed to anchor it's prey. Great weapon out to 125 yards. I would not take a shot much over that. I would rather have it  than a 30-30.


----------



## AR1458 (Dec 23, 2010)

Luckybuck said:


> Almost always the catalogs I receive only offer 50 Cal rifles.  Wasn't but about 2-3 years ago you could choose .45 or .50 cal.  What has changed.


 SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW A .45 CAL. MUZZLELOADERS....like I said  SOME states..


----------



## 270 guy (Dec 23, 2010)

Was told last month at the local gun shop they either have stopped or are fixing to stop making 45's ammo and powder pellets are hard to find here everyone was out.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 23, 2010)

I have found in general that muzzleloaders seem to put deer right on the ground better than centerfire rifles. After hunting with blackpowder guns for many years, I'm sold on heavy bullets.


----------



## AR1458 (Dec 23, 2010)

balvarik said:


> A rifled .40 caliber is legal in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
> In North Carolina a 32 is legal.
> South Carolina a 36 is legal!
> 
> ...



KANSAS is .50 cal. and larger ..that is the one I hunted ....if I get more I will list ..


----------



## NCHillbilly (Dec 24, 2010)

NC has no restrictions on muzzleloader caliber, the only restriction is that you can't hunt with a muzzleloading pistol. You can hunt deer here with a .22 rifle legally, and hunt foxes legally with a .700 nitro express if you want to. The only caliber restrictions are that pistols have to be at least .23 caliber for big game, and shotguns can't be bigger than 10 gauge.


----------



## whithunter (Dec 24, 2010)

I hope they continue to make rounds for the .45.   I love the round.  I have seen what it will do to a deer and it is far from a "marginal' caliber.  It puts a hurting on a deer!!!


----------



## AR1458 (Dec 25, 2010)

balvarik said:


> Sir you are wrong!
> You may hunt deer with a .40 caliber muzzle loader in Kansas!!
> 
> http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Guns-Bows
> ...



YOU ARE RIGHT ..I was out there in 2006 and then it was .50 cal ..they change it ..I also look at my 2010 regulations and you are right ..thank you for the correction ......and also it looks like scopes are legal now on a MZ.


----------



## Jack Flynn (Dec 26, 2010)

Most of you know that if you are shooting 50 cal sabots you are slinging most always a 45 cal slug don't cha? Just wondering. I don't hunt anymore but have put a bunch of deer on the ground with a 45 cal 460 grain White Superslug and most were DRT.


----------



## mmarkey (Jul 19, 2011)

AR1458 said:


> SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW A .45 CAL. MUZZLELOADERS....like I said  SOME states..



I agree with this. When I started Muzzleloading in 1974 in Massachusetts the minimum cal for deer was 50 cal and smoothbore only.  I think the trend may be reversing, but the manufacturers are in that 50 cal mindset. Unless of course you can build your own.


----------



## fish30523 (Jul 19, 2011)

it is personal prefrence. there isn't enough difference in a .45 than a 50 I got both and pound for pound I can't tell a differance my honest oppinon though bigger aint always better the problem with the market is everything is catered to the inlines nothing wrong with inlines but for those of us who like traditional Muzzeloaders it makes it hard to find what we need


----------



## Whiteeagle (Jul 19, 2011)

I agree with Straightarrow. I never saw a .45 cal inline personally, but then I stick to side lock anf flinters in rifles. Love my .45 kentucky cause I can deer hunt and shoot squirells with the same load. If I get the urge for more power I go to my .50 cal Cva Mountain Rifle. If you never done it, try some bp shotshell on doves.


----------



## kvistads (Jul 20, 2011)

A TC .50 Cal. sabot mics out to .495 - just slightly under .50 to make for easy loading I guess.  The lead hollow point inside the sabot mics to .450.  Jack Flynn is right on.  Most of you guys that's shooting in-line 50's are shooting .45's and don't even know it.  The only modern muzzle loading projectile I can think of that might be the same size is the Power Belts.  They are probably a tad undersized too - I'm just not sure because I've never used them.

No offense but you're talking apples and oranges here.  Both will certainly do a number on deer sized animals in my opinion.  I have both and then some.  For that matter, I've killed a few deer with a Ruger Old Army pistol with just 25 grains of FFF black powder pushing a .457 round ball.  In most cases, it's bullet placement plain and simple.  You'll find no trouble in locating 50 cal. stuff.  But if you really learn to like this front stuffing thing, you'll start casting your own anyway.  Speaking strictly in round ball terms, the 50 will buck the wind better and the 45 will hold a little flatter.  Having said that, I like the 45.  It isn't as punishing to the shoulder and that means a lot when your my age.  Good luck.


----------



## Apex Predator (Jul 21, 2011)

When shooting round balls there is a significant difference in killing power, but when shooting sabots or full bore bullets, not so much.


----------



## kvistads (Jul 24, 2011)

Apex:
I never shoot at deer past 100 yards and most of the time within 50.  Now each to his own here but, I like hunting in the woods where you're lucky to get a clear 50 yards.  I also like to use traditional style muzzle loading firearms with a round ball twist.  I don't like scopes either and especially on muzzle loaders.  Did you know the standard load for a .58 cal. musket used in the civil war was only 60 grains of FF black powder?  They put a many of good men in the grave at longer distances than 100 yards.  Now, I realize that most were using minis.  Having said that, there were many round balls used as well with devastating effects.  Round balls have a tendency to flatten out somewhat after punching through the skin thereby expanding causing massive tissue damage.

I'm not trying to knock what you like, it's just that I think you're missing out on a lot of fun and will never experience what our forefathers did way back before our time.  For the sake of me I can never figure out why the DNR calls it _Primitive Weapons Season_ when there's nothing primitive about it.  And *scopes*?  It's all about money now and what the TV gurus sell.  They have commercialized this thing to the point where it makes me sick.  Long gone are the good old days when you could go on a public WMA PW hunt and not have overcrowding.  Man were those the days!


----------

