# Legalism



## christianhunter (Sep 28, 2010)

Satans ultimate weapon against Christians.It is a broad variety of subjects.Salvation...can you lose it?
Holiness can you live it?
Denominational worship,instead of THE LORD?
Accusing the Brethren,for thinking in a different way?

Where does it start,and where does it end?


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## apoint (Sep 28, 2010)

It will end when we are with the Lord and He tells us where we went wrong.
 The question can you loose salvation, wont make you loose it.
 Holiness, I haven't got there yet.
 Denominational disputes. There is only His Kingdom.
 Its OK to think differently.  I believe it makes one soul search for righteousness sake. God will let us know, until then Have Gods love and peace.
 I might add that you are one of the highest respected people I know. God Bless you Brother


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## christianhunter (Sep 28, 2010)

apoint said:


> It will end when we are with the Lord and He tells us where we went wrong.
> The question can you loose salvation wont make you loose it.
> Holiness I haven't got there yet.
> Denominational disputes. There is only His Kingdom.
> Its OK to think differently.  I believe it makes one soul search for righteousness sake. God will let us know, until then Have Gods love and peace.



Amen to that,and you also.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not sure what legalism is anymore.
When I was a young man a legalest was someone who thought the Bible had to be obey explicitly in order for the person to be found righteous by God.

Today, I think some people believe a legalist is someone who believes a child of God must seek to please God in their life.

Some probably believe a legalist is anyone who disagrees with them.

A prophet once wrote of a time when God's word would be written on a person's heart, not on tablets of stone.
So, I think that's the opposite of legalism?


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## post450 (Sep 28, 2010)

In my humble opinion, the most common form of legalism is applying one's personal convictions to another believer's life. 

I must admit I have struggled with that very issue and still do at times. I am thankful my Savior is not a legalist because I would have been doomed.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 29, 2010)

post450 said:


> In my humble opinion, the most common form of legalism is applying one's personal convictions to another believer's life.



Very well put.

And we have examples of this in the Bible too.  It was the whole reason that there was a Jerusalem Council in Acts.

Another form of legalism is praising one's self and thinking that one is gaining God's favor based on their righteous actions.


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## formula1 (Sep 29, 2010)

*Re:*

My definition of legalism - Choking out God in favor of the will or the righteousness of man.

These are just some of my thoughts on legalism:

1) Trying to live out your life in Christ in the flesh rather than by His Spirit.  
Galatians 3:2-3 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?  
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 

2) Imposing your own set of rules for your Christian walk on other Christians. 

Galatians 3
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written,"Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 
11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."

You might think this passage is a stretch of context, but let me ask you this, "If no one is justified by God's law, what chance do your rules have for justifying any man?"

3) Choking Christian growth out of our churches because 'we want it this way'.

A friend of mine told me a story how a group of church deacons which would not allow so much as a screen to post the words of a song in church nor the use of any music outside the generally accepted by the 'hymnal'.  We are worried about these things? Are you kidding me?  Meanwhile the world outside needs Jesus and
we bicker about the ridiculous.  I now understand why Jesus would want to leave the 99 for the 1. He cares 
more for the one who needs Him. Consider these words borrowed from a song and I think you will get my point.

Looking through rose colored stained glass windows
Never allowing the world to come in
Seeing no evil and feeling no pain
Making the light as it comes from within so dim... so dim

How can our Light shine without the alive and well Spirit of God living and moving within us?
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit.

4) Not trusting the Holy Spirit to lead your Christian walk and the Christian walk of others. 

Thoughts:
But God, I don't want to Love the unlovable!
But God, muslims and gays are enemies of your cross. You could not possibly want me to love them.
But God, my son/daughter is evil and I want nothing to do with them.
But God, you can't allow me to have cancer.
But God, I can find you in the woods, I don't need to be involved with other Christians in my life.
But God, my business dealings are separate from my Christianity.

I think you gentlemen will get my point.

Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Matthew 5
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say
to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your 
Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the 
just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not 
even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers,[h] what more are you doing 
than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I Cor 13
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist
on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with 
the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Phil 2:3 Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 

There is much yet I still have to work on in my life, the legalism of believers, however, almost kept me away from the rich blessings resident in this wonderful walk with Christ our Lord.  I thank Him everyday that He chose to deliver me to His Light.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 29, 2010)

I believe most people assign legalism to the practice of taking God's word exactly as it's written and then claiming that every Christian is obligated to adhere to it.

*But is that really a wrong attitude to have?  I think not.


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## olchevy (Sep 29, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I believe most people assign legalism to the practice of taking God's word exactly as it's written and then claiming that every Christian is obligated to adhere to it.
> 
> *But is that really a wrong attitude to have?  I think not.



True, but many of those people only talk the talk they don't walk the walk....Most seem to always be telling others what they are doing wrong and why they themselves wouldn't do such a thing.....When in reality they are guilty of the same things....I can honestly say I have yet to meet someone that could do both ALL the time...I think that person does not exist nor will they, we all sin regardless of how "Godly" we are.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 29, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I believe most people assign legalism to the practice of taking God's word exactly as it's written and then claiming that every Christian is obligated to adhere to it.
> 
> *But is that really a wrong attitude to have?  I think not.



imho...you just defined sanctification and righteousness.

Legalism is this.

It is a sin to drink alcohol.  It is a sin to dance.  It is a sin to play cards.  It is a sin to wear shorts.  It is a sin to wear make-up.

None of those are in the Bible.  It says to not be drunk....but doesn't say not to drink.  It says to be modest, but it doesn't say not to wear shorts.  

Legalism is taking what God's Word says, and then adding to it things that are not there.  No....it isn't even close to taking God's Word as it is and adhering to it.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 29, 2010)

olchevy said:


> True, but many of those people only talk the talk they don't walk the walk....Most seem to always be telling others what they are doing wrong and why they themselves wouldn't do such a thing.....When in reality they are guilty of the same things....I can honestly say I have yet to meet someone that could do both ALL the time...I think that person does not exist nor will they, we all sin regardless of how "Godly" we are.



You're right on with everything you said.
At my age I know I'm fully equipped to be able to beat the devil to the punch everytime.   Yet I don't.
God didn't give me His grace and mercy so that I would continue on in sin....... but He lovingly forgives me anyway.

It's not easy to be a disciple of Christ.


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## apoint (Sep 29, 2010)

I like that Ron, its not easy to be a disciple of Christ. If it were not for Gods love, mercy, grace, spirit, genius, perfection, compassion, 
creation, salvation, King of Kings and Lord of Lords everlasting.
 And I get to be His child in the Kingdom. I dont think I could do it.


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## Israel (Sep 29, 2010)

Jesus came to deliver us from what the (our) flesh necessitates, law. The law, as a brother once said, is for lawbreakers.
Law and love are incompatible.
Love is eternal, law is not.
Consider this:

Joh 12:27  Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 

Is this not Jesus saying he had come to this "hour" as the precise purpose of his coming?
Was this not what he was "supposed" to do?

Yet did he not later testify of this:

Mat 26:53  Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 

Was the cross the purpose and plan?
Yet was Jesus confident that, if he so chose to pray the Father, he could forgo it?

How do we get to that place where God's desire is not done out of obligation (Law) but to that place where we can do it or not...but we want to?

Only though and in Christ. Only by being born of the spirit that does not what the soul wants, but is submitted in love to the will of the Father. 
Would it have been sin for Jesus to ask for legions of angels?
God forbid. For he still had the confidence God our Father would hear his prayer...and answer...Yes.

How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 
How can we become...in the flesh...what wants to please God, not "has to"?
Only in Christ. Where there is no law, where being one with the Father is real, and which alone, through Christ's spirit, makes us sons, no less than he, and of whom he is not ashamed to call us "brothers".

Few, Jesus says, come to this place...for law allows us to show what we can do.
Grace allows God to show what he can do.


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## christianhunter (Sep 29, 2010)

This could actually turn into a study,rather than a discussion.I have read some very good points.Thanks everyone for sharing so far.


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