# would looking at  pornography if married constitute adultery?



## Throwback (May 9, 2013)

I searched and found nothing on this so I thought I'd add it to the forum. 

A friend of mine and I had this discussion a while back and the adultery/forgiveness thread made me remember it and I thought id get ya'lls thoughts. 

I say if a married man looks at pornography in any form (pictures, movies, websites, chat rooms, etc)  it is adultery because of the verse about it in matthew 5:28


> But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



it is most certainly sexual immorality if its not straight up adultery. 

would it matter if instead of just looking at pictures or movies the man was involved in chat rooms with live women? 

would it matter if it was from time to time or an ongoing all the time occurrence? 

he (my friend)  says not because it isn't physically happening. 



Thoughts? 

I'd like some more ideas next time he and I discuss it if we do. 

T


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## jmh5397 (May 9, 2013)

I couldn't agree with you more!  Mark 7:21-23, Romans 8:5, and Phil 4:8 should help with your debate.


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## hummdaddy (May 9, 2013)

you can't be friends with a female


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## bull0ne (May 9, 2013)

Here's a good rule of thumb to determine if you or someone else is exhibiting adulterous vs non-adulterous behavior within a relationship. 

As it pertains to a couple in a committed relationship, its considered adulterous behavior on some level when one has to hide their browsing history due to sexual content they've viewed.........and/or......
hide who they've interacted with online in a sexual manner because they inheriting know their partner would feel betrayed if said activities of a sexual nature were discovered. 



I'll leave the biblical debate  to someone else......


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## jmh5397 (May 9, 2013)

hummdaddy said:


> you can't be friends with a female



Once again....you're eaten up with profoundness.


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## hummdaddy (May 9, 2013)

jmh5397 said:


> Once again....you're eaten up with profoundness.



would it matter if instead of just looking at pictures or movies the man was involved in chat rooms with live women? 


what's profound about what i asked ,from what he asked


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## kmckinnie (May 9, 2013)

Does this thread only invovle men! What about our wifes? How would yall feel about that! Just a little question! Good day.


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## jmharris23 (May 9, 2013)

I do believe that the bible would say that any sexual attention we give a woman other than out wife would be cheating on her. 

At the least it is not fulfilling our biblical role as husbands which is to love our wives as Christ loved the church.


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## jmh5397 (May 9, 2013)

hummdaddy said:


> what's profound about what i asked ,from what he asked



Bwahahahaha....thanks I needed that!


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## hummdaddy (May 9, 2013)

jmh5397 said:


> Bwahahahaha....thanks I needed that!



he knows where i was coming from now,that's all that mattersi didn't think i went that deep with it....


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## Ronnie T (May 9, 2013)

jmharris23 said:


> I do believe that the bible would say that any sexual attention we give a woman other than out wife would be cheating on her.
> 
> At the least it is not fulfilling our biblical role as husbands which is to love our wives as Christ loved the church.



This.  It isn't necessarily the looking at nudeness of the opposite sex that constitutes adultery.  "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 
Anytime a married man or woman looks or thinks lustfully at a person who is not their mate has committed adultery in their heart.

It's not the seeing of the naked body, it's the thoughts that will probably come from that seeing.

A doctor may have looked at 100 nude bodies in a day of work, but only commit adultery at the sight of one of the nude bodies.
It could be looking at pornography, or it might be watching a ladies, or men's tennis match on TV.  Or the jogger that just ran past you at an intersection.

As Mark said, it is the heart's betrayal (be it momentary or long term) of the marital commitment.  That marital commitment is compared to the relationship between Christ and the church.  

One needs to watch it, be careful of it, and train their mind and heart.


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## mtnwoman (May 10, 2013)

I think it goes for man or woman...and yes I consider it cheating.

It says that God knows it from our heart, so a guy having a 'girl' friend and that's all it is, God knows that and it wouldn't be cheating. 

If you lie to cover it up, then you are doing something immoral, no matter what it is, you know you shouldn't be doing it or you wouldn't lie about it.


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## Huntinfool (May 10, 2013)

Yes, it's cheating.  No, men should not EVER find themselves in a situation where they are comforting a woman other than their spouse.  No, men should not EVER find themselves spending time alone with a woman other than their spouse...even if it's "just lunch".

And BTW, "mommy porn" like the Twilight Series and similar is porn just like the hardcore websites her husband is looking at.  It inflames desires for another.


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## groundhawg (May 10, 2013)

jmharris23 said:


> I do believe that the bible would say that any sexual attention we give a woman other than out wife would be cheating on her.
> 
> At the least it is not fulfilling our biblical role as husbands which is to love our wives as Christ loved the church.



Very well stated.  Thanks.


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## formula1 (May 10, 2013)

*Re:*

Your are accountable to your wife and your wife is accountable to you.  

Both my son and I are accountable to my wife as if we even try to go to a questionable website, we have software on our computer and devices that will send her an Email.  I encourage those who care to do the same, even if you don't need to.

Porn, especially on computers is a terrible disease. It is easily hidden for years by many, so don't hide.  You are not really going to get away with it in the end!


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## K80 (May 10, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Yes, it's cheating.  No, men should not EVER find themselves in a situation where they are comforting a woman other than their spouse.  No, men should not EVER find themselves spending time alone with a woman other than their spouse...even if it's "just lunch".
> 
> And BTW, "mommy porn" like the Twilight Series and similar is porn just like the hardcore websites her husband is looking at.  It inflames desires for another.



Thats a bit extreme hf.

I agree physically comforting could led to something more if not careful thus is wise to avoid.

Ever is a mighty extreme word.  My job has me alone with women quite a bit, be it a coworker, intern/trainee, or a customer.  However, I agree ever should be used as a rule if you have no self control.


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## Huntinfool (May 10, 2013)

Many many men (and women for that matter) have been taken down by Satan whispering in their ear, "she's/he's just a friend...it's fine".

If you find yourself in a situation where a woman other than your wife is coming to you for comfort (whether physical or emotional), run like the wind.  There are other people she can turn to.

Job related time alone is one thing (but still should be avoided if you ask me).  Alone on your own time is entirely another.

Let's put it this way, a good rule of thumb is that if there is ever even a hint of hesitation as to whether the situation you find yourself in would make your wife uncomfortable or you feel like it would be best just to not tell her about it (even if it seems harmless at the moment)....run Forrest run!!!!


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## Ronnie T (May 10, 2013)

I agree foolish hunter.  Protect yourself from yourself.  Think ahead.  Say:  "What do I do if......".  I've done that many times.
.


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## StriperAddict (May 14, 2013)

Great thread and posts, worth a bump for it's challenge to both men and women.

Hey Throwback...  did this help your discussion with your friend?


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## David Parker (May 14, 2013)

DANG IT.  So now my porn is limited to single people only?  c'MON!!!


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## SemperFiDawg (May 14, 2013)

Uhhhhhhhh. Yeah.


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## rjcruiser (May 14, 2013)

Not sure I'd say that my wife enjoyed the Twilight Series because Jacob what's his name took his shirt off.....

But...I agree with most of the posts on here.  One has to be very very careful.


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## hobbs27 (May 14, 2013)

Looking at pornography while single or married is not adultery or sin.... Think.


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## ambush80 (May 14, 2013)

What if you see a man on man porno?  You don't get turned on because you're not gay so is it OK to watch?


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## Madman (May 15, 2013)

To "lust" after another is adultry.

I believe ANYTHING that takes resources from the marriage and puts those resource into another relationship, at the expense of the marriage is sinful.


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## David Parker (May 15, 2013)

you just blew my mind


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## Mako22 (May 15, 2013)

Its a matter of our heart.

1st Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.


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## Mako22 (May 15, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> What if you see a man on man porno?  You don't get turned on because you're not gay so is it OK to watch?



Psalm 101:3
 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes:


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## David Parker (May 15, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> What if you see a man on man porno?  You don't get turned on because you're not gay so is it OK to watch?



I tend to just pour a small amount of bleach into both eyes when this happens.


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## wranglerjoe1968 (May 15, 2013)

So what if you like looking at it together?


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## Artfuldodger (May 15, 2013)

Porn is just one of many forms of lust. Emotional relationships are forms of affairs. As others mentioned, if you are hiding the situation from your wife, there might be a problem. 
Many men and women work and play together. We go to the beach together. We go to social events together. If prone to lust one should just stay home. I would venture to say "lust" is one of the sins we all struggle with. Who do we confess to when we lust after another woman? Funny how we confess to God who already knows but we don't tell our spouses.
I wonder if all those clothes women wear in Muslim countries help prevent lust.


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## mtnwoman (May 15, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> What if you see a man on man porno?  You don't get turned on because you're not gay so is it OK to watch?



If you wanna watch it, go ahead....


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## hunter rich (May 15, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder if all those clothes women wear in Muslim countries help prevent lust.



Sharia law needs to be implemented into the USofA, and it will stop all the evil that has taken over!!!!


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## Artfuldodger (May 16, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> Sharia law needs to be implemented into the USofA, and it will stop all the evil that has taken over!!!!



I hope not, I like looking at women in bikinis. But only as an artistic art form.


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## GunnSmokeer (May 16, 2013)

*gay porn*

if you watch gay porn, actually watch it and not just flip through it as you search for other channels, you don't qualify for the "it's not turning me on because I'm not gay" exception.  If you're gay enough to watch gay porn, you're gay enough to not to call yourself not gay with a straight face (pun intended!)


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## Huntinfool (May 16, 2013)

Madman said:


> I believe ANYTHING that takes resources from the marriage and puts those resource into another relationship, at the expense of the marriage is sinful.



100% correct my man.


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## 7 point (May 16, 2013)

to look at A woman with lust in your eyes is sin.


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## egomaniac247 (May 16, 2013)

I've always struggled with this passage in the bible because it basically says that if an attractive woman walks by and you notice her (based on her attraction) , you've committed adultery.  

Does lust mean you're following her around with your tongue hanging out like a pathetic puppy dog?  Does it mean you pursue contact with her?  Or does it mean you simply looked at her "assets" if you know what I mean....because like it or not, men WILL look at the "assets".

We are biologically programmed to seek out attractive members of the opposite sex.  Our eyes are drawn to it. 

This is why I struggle with it - you could have the most loyal, committed married man on earth and if an attractive woman walks by him, he's gonna look.  Is that adultery?


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## David Parker (May 16, 2013)

What if you see an attractive girl at the strip club and go home all spry and have a great night with the wifey?  Is that cheating on the stripper?


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## Huntinfool (May 16, 2013)

Depends on whether or not your wife was the stripper I suppose...

Excellent, well thought out posts David.


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## JB0704 (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Excellent, well thought out posts David.





T the subject, I guess if whatever you are doing makes you feel guilty, then you probably 'ought avoid it, because the internal "compass" usually let's you know when your out of line.

For me, looking at porn would qualify as "out of line."  But, I feel no regret if a beautiful lady jogs by and I notice.  One represents effort on my part, the other is a circumstance where my reaction is the way I was designed.


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## centerpin fan (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Excellent, well thought out posts David.



You beat me to it.


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## stringmusic (May 16, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> T the subject, I guess if whatever you are doing makes you feel guilty, then you probably 'ought avoid it, because the internal "compass" usually let's you know when your out of line.
> 
> For me, looking at porn would qualify as "out of line."  But, I feel no regret if a beautiful lady jogs by and I notice.  One represents effort on my part, the other is a circumstance where my reaction is the way I was designed.



Yep!

It's ultimately a heart issue. If you can look at that lady jogger and not rip her clothes off with your eyes, then there is nothing wrong.


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## stringmusic (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Depends on whether or not your wife was the stripper I suppose...
> 
> Excellent, well thought out posts David.





centerpin fan said:


> You beat me to it.



Judgemental Christians!


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## egomaniac247 (May 16, 2013)

> But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



There are things in the bible that i don't think mere man can ever truly interpret with 100% certainty.  This is one of those.

Some things are clear cut....obviously pursuing contact with another woman other than your spouse is wrong.   But what's the definition of "lustfully".   Does it mean that you're staring at a pornographic image or does it just mean seeing a woman walking through the airport and thinking "wow she's beautiful"  If that's the case, why wouldn't we be genetically programmed to "turn it off" once we found our spouse?    It seems unhealthy to try to force yourself to not find other women attractive and take a "glance" at their assets as they walk by.  And vice versa for the opposite gender.

Like I said, it's one of those things where I try to live my life right but hopefully I get the chance to ask the big man upstairs what he meant by it.


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## Huntinfool (May 16, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> Judgemental Christians!



I'm 1000% sure David thinks so.  Guilty....I guess.


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## centerpin fan (May 16, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> Judgemental Christians!


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## David Parker (May 16, 2013)

Oh yall are serious?  I thought this was for kicks and giggles.  HMMM, if I like to look at non-spousal naughty-bits, am I going to Hades?  No, I won't.  Glad I could help.


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## centerpin fan (May 16, 2013)

egomaniac247 said:


> I've always struggled with this passage in the bible because it basically says that if an attractive woman walks by and you notice her (based on her attraction) , you've committed adultery.
> 
> Does lust mean you're following her around with your tongue hanging out like a pathetic puppy dog?  Does it mean you pursue contact with her?  Or does it mean you simply looked at her "assets" if you know what I mean....because like it or not, men WILL look at the "assets".
> 
> ...



The first look is often unavoidable.  It's the second look that gets you into trouble.


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## centerpin fan (May 16, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Oh yall are serious?


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## David Parker (May 16, 2013)

I can't see it.  Firewall at work keeps me from viewing youtube and porn.


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## centerpin fan (May 16, 2013)

David Parker said:


> I can't see it.  Firewall at work keeps me from viewing youtube and porn.



Note to self:  stop posting porn links on the GON forum.


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## stringmusic (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> I'm 1000% sure David thinks so.  Guilty....I guess.


I had a feeling it would go there.


centerpin fan said:


>


 CPF, you could ABSOLUTELY make money as a comedian. 



David Parker said:


> am I going to Hades?  No, I won't.  Glad I could help.



I don't know if you're going to hades or not. A relationship with Christ is the ony thing that will keep you out of hades and put you into heaven. It could also be argued that with that relationship comes the desire not to lust after women other than your wife.


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## pnome (May 16, 2013)

I can't give you a biblical answer but here's the way I look at it:

If she catches you, is she going to be hurt/angry?  If so, then yes it is.


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## David Parker (May 16, 2013)

pnome said:


> I can't give you a biblical answer but here's the way I look at it:
> 
> If she catches you, is she going to be hurt/angry?  If so, then yes it is.



That's how I'd figure it.  I guess it wouldn't be cool to bring up that maybe in some cases, if the wife had a problem with it, maybe it's not that someone committed a sin, but that their marriage wasn't that great to begin with.  

On a side note, one of my faves is to leave some random page loaded for her, so when she sits down to play her GameHouse games she gets a little surprise.  


   Don't hate


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## stringmusic (May 16, 2013)

pnome said:


> I can't give you a biblical answer but here's the way I look at it:
> 
> If she catches you, is she going to be hurt/angry?  If so, then yes it is.



I agree, but the real question is whether or not God will be hurt/angry. From a biblical perspective, looking at porn would hurt God, whether your wife is hurt or not, so in light of that, it's still a sin.


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## Huntinfool (May 16, 2013)

Apparently Martinez continues to produce some outstanding contributors to the forums.  


I change my vote to go with David.  If my wife has a problem with me looking at porn, the only real issue is that our marriage isn't that good in the first place.  

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.


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## stringmusic (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Apparently Martinez continues to produce some outstanding contributors to the forums.
> 
> 
> I change my vote to go with David.  If my wife has a problem with me looking at porn, the only real issue is that our marriage isn't that good in the first place.
> ...



Will you video, or a least provide the audio of you telling her that when you get home tonight?


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## David Parker (May 16, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Apparently Martinez continues to produce some outstanding contributors to the forums.
> 
> 
> I change my vote to go with David.  If my wife has a problem with me looking at porn, the only real issue is that our marriage isn't that good in the first place.
> ...



Hey, Martinez is producing at least one person who is honest about it.  Dunno about anybody else b/c religious folk are notorious about revealing _their _affinity to porn.


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## Huntinfool (May 16, 2013)

You're honest. I'll give ya that. 

Honesty isn't always an indicator of wisdom I'm afraid.


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## Artfuldodger (May 16, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> I agree, but the real question is whether or not God will be hurt/angry. From a biblical perspective, looking at porn would hurt God, whether your wife is hurt or not, so in light of that, it's still a sin.



I was thinking about this before your post. Is porn ok for single men? Is lust a sin for a single man? What are some verses about lust.
A single man could get turned on watching a girl dance at the local square dance. Did he commit lust? How could he tell himself he would like to hug and kiss her without it turning into lust? I guess lust in the heart is adultery, correct?

Us Martinez (mar-Teen-us) folks are free thinkers.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 16, 2013)

Paul said it was better to get married than to  ???? I can't remember,.... burn .... I don''t know but you guys remember something like that is in there. I think that he is refering to an active case of lust. Not that, get married so that it never happens to you. I'm sure that is a matter of opinion.  For the record, I would not want my wife watching it so therefore, I should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. As far as the verse about looking at a woman lustfully, I don't consider that Jesus, here is telling us to put on blinders. I see it as him revealing an inner character flaw of men just the same as pride, an inner, unrealized character flaw that we humans need to be saved from. Outwardly, this crowd had religion mastered, a white washed tomb that they were so proud of. He is pointing out their need for a savior, not their need to cover their eyes


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## Artfuldodger (May 16, 2013)

1gr8bldr said:


> As far as the verse about looking at a woman lustfully, I don't consider that Jesus, here is telling us to put on blinders. I see it as him revealing an inner character flaw of men just the same as pride, an inner, unrealized character flaw that we humans need to be saved from. Outwardly, this crowd had religion mastered, a white washed tomb that they were so proud of. He is pointing out their need for a savior, not their need to cover their eyes



I was just reading 1 John 2:16 and would have to agree. Jesus was teaching that even if we thought we were keeping the law we weren't. There is no other way around salvation except from God's grace.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world.


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## formula1 (May 17, 2013)

*Re:*

This is a great passage for everyone of us to judge ourselves and our walk in Christ. So please everyone who proclaims themselves a follower of Christ, judge  yourself. God Bless!

1 John 1
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.


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## Huntinfool (May 17, 2013)

Advanced?  No.  "Progressive or Enlightened"?  Possibly.


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## centerpin fan (May 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Little too advanced for ya eh?



"Advanced" is not the term I would use.


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## centerpin fan (May 17, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Advanced?  No.  "Progressive or Enlightened"?  Possibly.



I'm going with "coprolitic".


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## David Parker (May 17, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> Advanced?  No.  "Progressive or Enlightened"?  Possibly.



I get it.  If you don't fall into the same template then you're tagged and labelled?  Tell you what, I'll be the "Progressive" if it makes you feel more devout.  Or even if it doesn't.  It's your "word" not mine.  I'm clear about who I am and disclose what i do, if that's how you get to be a progressive then good luck with that.  

Where in the template do you place the ones who are Christians that drink strichnyne or wage holy wars on non-Christians?  What about the ones who take multiple wives like the Muslim faith?


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## David Parker (May 17, 2013)

Point to ponder.  If you can sin and sin and sin all up in this life, and at the end, you only have to "atone",  is sin even relevent in this world?


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## Throwback (May 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Point to ponder.  If you can sin and sin and sin all up in this life, and at the end, you only have to "atone",  is sin even relevent in this world?



Stop derailing my (serious) thread and start your own

T


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## Huntinfool (May 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Point to ponder.  If you can sin and sin and sin all up in this life, and at the end, you only have to "atone",  is sin even relevent in this world?



Nope, I think you should keep on keepin' on brotha.


Tell ya what.  Learn how to take what you give out better.  It makes life a whole lot easier to deal with.

Gotta go get my spag-n-meatballs on.


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## David Parker (May 17, 2013)

My sincerest apologies.  I was not initially aware that the thread was exclusive to those who share your viewpoint (you and your ilk have made that abundantly clear).  I'll avoid your threads going forward.  Have a blessed day!


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## Huntinfool (May 17, 2013)

Mean hypocritical Christians!  Y'all stop bullying the troll.    It's not "Christian"!


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## egomaniac247 (May 17, 2013)

> The first look is often unavoidable. It's the second look that gets you into trouble.



But how do you know that for certain?    The bible verse just says that any man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultry. 

We're genetically programmed to LOOK.   I get what you're saying and I agree.....but is that what God means?

For the record, I'm on board with porn being sinful.....but the bible verse has always been concerning to me.  I'd have to walk around with a blindfold on to satisfy the literal meaning in the bible.


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## centerpin fan (May 17, 2013)

egomaniac247 said:


> But how do you know that for certain?    The bible verse just says that any man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultry.



I highlighted the key word.  The first look is almost never lustful.  (I qualify that because I suppose it's possible.)  For a more in-depth discussion, see:

http://www.amazon.com/Every-Mans-Battle-Winning-Temptation/dp/1578563682


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## Artfuldodger (May 17, 2013)

egomaniac247 said:


> But how do you know that for certain?    The bible verse just says that any man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultry.
> 
> We're genetically programmed to LOOK.   I get what you're saying and I agree.....but is that what God means?
> 
> For the record, I'm on board with porn being sinful.....but the bible verse has always been concerning to me.  I'd have to walk around with a blindfold on to satisfy the literal meaning in the bible.



1gr8bldr and I touched on this briefly. There is no possible way a man can look at a beautiful woman without having lust in his heart. Think Jimmy Carter even he admitted to lusting. I don't think a man can admit to not doing this. 
This verse is to show that man is very guilty of sinning by just being a human man. You can outwardly keep laws and pretend you are a good Christian but in reality bad things creep into your inward heart. There is no way around it. Jesus knew this and was thus pointing it out. 
I would also say that men who say they don't do this are probably not being very honest. True this might not be a burden for every Christian man. Then they are equally burdened with other sins equally bad such as over eating, over drinking, pride, or not being able to forgive others.
It is a great verse to show why we need Jesus a savior  and  God's grace.


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## Artfuldodger (May 17, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> I highlighted the key word.  The first look is almost never lustful.  (I qualify that because I suppose it's possible.)  For a more in-depth discussion, see:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Every-Mans-Battle-Winning-Temptation/dp/1578563682



Well I might be guilty of taking this "off topic" but lust was mentioned along with porn.
Porn and adultery are wrong. Part of the Law was against adultery. Did you read the first review from a pastor? 
He was saying that this book dwells on the "Law" more than God's Grace. 
Weaknesses of the flesh are many. You will never overcome them.


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## Ronnie T (May 17, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Just a friendly PSA there brudda Throwback:
> 
> This area is not a "Hands-off" area.
> In this area anyone, anyone can join any discussion with whatever their point of view is.
> ...



Pardon me.  Let me clear my throat.  The management is not taking applications for moderators at the moment, so we won't be sending you a form.

Per the blue above..... This IS a religious discussion area.


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## centerpin fan (May 17, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> Porn and adultery are wrong. Part of the Law was against adultery. Did you read the first review from a pastor?
> He was saying that this book dwells on the "Law" more than God's Grace.



I only mentioned the book because the authors expound on "the second look".


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## Artfuldodger (May 17, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> I only mentioned the book because the authors expound on "the second look".



Maybe taking a second look is only something men in Martinez do. I might better cancel my summer beach trip and book a winter ski vacation!
What if I only look at fat chicks, they don't spark any interest in my heart.


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## Artfuldodger (May 17, 2013)

Jesus was asserting that adultery does not consist primarily of sexual union of two people, at least one of which is married, but it consists rather in the intention, accomplished or not, to take what belongs to another. The purpose of the verse is to show no one is free of sin, but the nature of sin lies in impurity of the heart (taking from another man his wife) rather than the physical act itself. This is different from consensual nonmonogamy. Its like the Rabbi said at the swing club, "I don't want to own your wife, just borrow her!" Now, lets look at how porneia is used here,

The natural desire for sexual variety or the enjoyment of looking at a beautiful body has absolutely nothing to do with "lust" as most assume it to mean. Lust is only wrong if it is the selfish desire to take something from another. Lust is wrong if it is about greed and self satisfaction at the expense of another. But there is nothing whatsoever wrong with mutually desired loving intimacy and enjoying sexual variety or pornography for that matter.

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/lust.html


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## Artfuldodger (May 17, 2013)

I'm just trying to show there is more to Matthew 5:27–28 than how some read it.

“Whoever Looks at a Woman With Lust”: Misinterpreted Bible Passages #1

http://www.jasonstaples.com/blog/2009/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28-18


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## 1gr8bldr (May 18, 2013)

Just to be clear, looking at porn is not good. My point will be looking at women in general. I went through a period of several years when I would look away from women joggers that I passed along my route to and from work. It dawned on me years later that nothing had changed, only difference is that I made an effort not to look. But the underlying issue was still there. Yet, when a nice truck passed by, or a nice boat, I would check out. Something began to seem wrong with this picture. Why was I not able to look at a woman the same way I would look at a boat??? What I had been doing was denying my nature. Men have a God given, built in characteristics. One of those is to notice an attractive woman. I no longer deny my instincts. When I see an attractive woman, boat, truck, tractor, etc, I look at them the same. God made me that way, and he made women that way. Freedom in Christ a wonderful thing once you are freed from bondage. Christ came to set us free, not bind us up with loads we can't carry. I am also thankful for a beautiful wife who allows me, guilt free,  to be a man.


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## JB0704 (May 18, 2013)

In a marriage scenario, I guess the "do unto others" rule would also apply.  Would a person be cool with their wife thinking / doing similar things?


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## Bama4me (May 20, 2013)

Throwback said:


> I say if a married man looks at pornography in any form (pictures, movies, websites, chat rooms, etc)  it is adultery because of the verse about it in matthew 5:28
> 
> 
> it is most certainly sexual immorality if its not straight up adultery.



TB... excellent question that is worthy of discussion due to the circumstances we live in today.  To answer your original question, there are probably two biblical ideas that need consideration.

First, it's important to understand the context that Christ was speaking in Matthew 5.  Beginning in verse 21, Jesus began addressing a fallacy of the Jews' belief system.  It seems they had correctly condemned "outward actions" such as murder and adultery, but had failed to emphasize the importance of "inward attitudes" which would give rise to those actions (anger, lust).  Jesus' message here was intended to help people realize that murder and adultery was sin... but that it was also sinful to allow the attitudes giving rise to these sins to remain in one's heart.

With that being the case, I'd ask the following question... does "considering in one's mind" the act of murder the same thing as murder itself?  Certainly, we wouldn't say that it wasn't sinful... but is it the same thing as physically committing the act?  I'm sure all of us would agree that "thinking about murdering someone" doesn't constitute the physical act of murder.  In the same vein, "adultery of the heart" doesn't constitute physical adultery.  While both would be sinful (Jesus' point) and both would harm a marriage, they are not intrinsically the same thing.

Two... your friend's comment about adultery being "a physical act" is correct.  When you look up "porneia" (adultery; sexual immorality in some versions), Strong's lexicon defines it as "illicit sexual intercourse".  For our discussion purpose here, notice that use of this word constitutes physical contact between two people who don't have a "right" to be with one another.  Now... does having "phone sex" qualify as "porneia?"  Does viewing pornography qualify as "porneia".  Technically, neither of them meet the criteria as "physical contact" between two people.  However, of the two, I could more easily see the argument for "phone sex" being a form of contact due to the fact you have two people involved in a conversation... so you do have some form of "physical contact".  However, viewing pornography doesn't seem to meet the criteria in any way.

After saying all of these things, I do want to clarify that all of these actions are sinful and do damage to a marriage... and if my marriage partner were doing any of these, I'm sure I'd feel as if I'd been betrayed and our level of trust would certainly be devastated.  I have dealt with this issue a good bit not only because of Matthew 5:32, but because of the application of Matthew 19:9.  This same "porneia" is the sole reason Jesus gives for someone to be able to get a divorce and then remarry.  Thus, the question is asked, "If I catch my spouse viewing pornography, do I have the right to divorce him/her and remarry?"


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## hobbs27 (May 20, 2013)

Bama4...Very good. Thanks I got a lot out of that.


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## satchmo (May 22, 2013)

There are literaly thousands of denominations, including 125 "type of baptist". I can't belive that looking at porn is any diferent than thinking about it. In which we can't help but think out it,being human and all that is. If you get down to the basics,law(old testiment)it is better to be with a prostitue than to please yourself. It's reaitive. You can't explain to your wife that you had to go to a prostitue because you were so far from home and you didn't want to sin. Looking at pictures, movies etc is a far better way to go than acting on human urges. We sin all the time. If you are fat, that's a sin, if you kill somebody, thats a sin. I belive that God loves us far too much for this to even matter. God gave us all we have in us. We all have free will. So the real question is "Is it ok to go to a few prostitutes or own a few videos"? Only to us does it matter. I know what would happen if my wife found me with a book=nothing, with a prostitue=my death.


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## Huntinfool (May 22, 2013)

I struggle with flesh and desires as much or more than most men.

But, Satchmo....respectfully....your explanation is lacking biblical support.  

I understand what you're trying to say.  But what you're trying to say/justify is theologically innacurate (regardless of which of the 125 baptist denominations you ascribe to).

I would venture to say that, based on your post, you have the opinion that God is cool with men/women looking at porn because "he made us this way and will forgive us"?

He is omnipresent.  Remember that and then tell me whether you think it's cool to pull that magazine out.


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## JB0704 (May 22, 2013)

HF, I thought his post indicated that to God all sins are equal, and the difference is how our actions are recieved by those who would be hurt by them. (Not trying to speak for Satchmo, but hoping for clarification in the event I misread the post).


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## Huntinfool (May 22, 2013)

> Looking at pictures, movies etc is a far better way to go than acting on human urges.



This quote, in particular, bothers me.  It seems to indicate that, since we're going to sin anyway, we should find the "least sinful" way to do it.


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## Bama4me (May 23, 2013)

Huntinfool said:


> This quote, in particular, bothers me.  It seems to indicate that, since we're going to sin anyway, we should find the "least sinful" way to do it.



I came away with that impression also.  I think perspective is huge in this type of discussion.  It's one thing to realize that we're all going to sin... and understand that sin in the eyes of God is sin, no matter which one it happens to be.

Sin, however, is what caused Jesus to go to the cross.  As God's children, we ought to hate sin - because of what it does to us, our relationships w/ others, and our relationship w/ God.  A proper response to God's grace is found in Titus 2:11-4.  Upon receiving God's grace, we should try our best to live "self-controlled, upright, and godly lives" (ESV).  While I freely admit I will make mistakes in this effort, that's a far cry from trying to minimize sin.  As a child of God who seeks to be holy because He is holy, I must come to hate sin for what it really is/does... and I should never attempt to minimize or trivialize it under the guise of "since I'm going to sin, I'll take the lesser sin" or "one sin really doesn't matter."


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## Slewfoot (May 31, 2013)

*Yep*

Great post T.   This is something that many of us struggle with.   We were designed with a major attraction for the beauty of a woman; However we are charged with keeping our hearts in check whether it be the web, magazines or just what we allow to run within our minds.   It is a tug of war each day!


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## hawglips (Jun 18, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> The first look is often unavoidable.  It's the second look that gets you into trouble.



Whenever the lusting starts...


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## 04ctd (Jun 20, 2013)

i didn't read the thread, but here is the answer:

*The Christian Walk*

_We believe that we have a holy calling to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, and so to live in the power of the indwelling Spirit in order that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The flesh is never eradicated in this life. Individuals must choose to keep the flesh in subjection to Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, or it will surely manifest its presence in life and dishonor our Lord._ (Romans 6:11-13; 8:2, 4, 12-13; Galatians 5:16-23; Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 2:1-10; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 1 John 1:4-7; 3:5-9)

and here are the verses, to make it easy:

*Romans 6:11-13*
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 


*Romans 8:2*
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death


*Romans 8:4*
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 


*Romans 8:12-13* _Sonship Through the Spirit_
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


*Galatians 5:16-23* _Walking in the Spirit_
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,* drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 


Ephesians 4:22-24 
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.


Colossians 2:1-10 Not Philosophy but Christ
2 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and[a] of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power


1 Peter 1:14-16 
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[


1 John 1:4-7
4 And these things we write to you that your[a] joy may be full.
Fellowship with Him and One Another
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

HTH? pray more.....*


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