# Darwin's "CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredable doctrine" of H E L L



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

In his autobiography Darwin rejected God over the issue of He11 and eternal punishment calling it a " d a m n a b l e  doctrine."  I've heard it questioned many times on here as well.

My question is this:  If you object to the idea of eternal punishment (AND ONLY IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EITHER LIFE IMPRISONMENT OR THE DEATH SENTENCE ), isn't this a contradiction of the same principle in that in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> My question is this:  If you object to the idea of eternal punishment (AND ONLY IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EITHER LIFE IMPRISONMENT OR THE DEATH SENTENCE ), isn't this a contradiction of the same principle in that in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?



Just so I am clear, you are comparing eternal torture in a fiery he11 to life imprisonment or the death sentence?

Those are the same thing to you?
If you are for the death penalty but against eternal torture, that is a contradiction?


----------



## EverGreen1231 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> In his autobiography Darwin rejected God over the issue of He11 and eternal punishment calling it a " d a m n a b l e  doctrine."  I've heard it questioned many times on here as well.
> 
> My question is this:  If you object to the idea of eternal punishment (AND ONLY IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EITHER LIFE IMPRISONMENT OR THE DEATH SENTENCE ), isn't this a contradiction of the same principle in that in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?



I can't answer for folks who believe this but, I think the main rub comes with the idea that a God of infinite love would be capable of such a thing.


----------



## EverGreen1231 (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> Just so I am clear, you are comparing eternal torture in a fiery he11 to life imprisonment or the death sentence?
> 
> Those are the same thing to you?
> If you are for the death penalty but against eternal torture, that is a contradiction?



If this life is all you have, it wouldn't be too much of stretch to say that your life is your eternity.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> Just so I am clear, you are comparing eternal torture in a fiery he11 to life imprisonment or the death sentence?
> 
> Those are the same thing to you?
> If you are for the death penalty but against eternal torture, that is a contradiction?




This was the quantifier.



> in that in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

EverGreen1231 said:


> If this life is all you have, it wouldn't be too much of stretch to say that your life is your eternity.



Exactly.

If you believe that this life is all there is, then life in prison is in effect, eternity.  The principle is the same is it not?


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Exactly.
> 
> If you believe that this life is all there is, then life in prison is in effect, eternity.  The principle is the same is it not?



Look up eternity and get back to me.

Other than that, is life in prison or the death penalty torture? Didn't we(as a society) go to great lengths to make sure prisoners and the death penalty was carried out humanely?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

EverGreen1231 said:


> I can't answer for folks who believe this but, I think the main rub comes with the idea that a God of infinite love would be capable of such a thing.



Yes, but does infinite love negate justice or does it dictate justice?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> Look up eternity and get back to me.
> 
> Other than that, is life in prison or the death penalty torture? Didn't we(as a society) go to great lengths to make sure prisoners and the death penalty was carried out humanely?



Look up principle and do the same.


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Yes, but does infinite love negate justice or does it dictate justice?



Not going to heaven is not punishment enough? 
Does the punishment of he!!, fit the crime?


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Look up principle and do the same.



O.k. NO! It is not a contradiction, on numerous points.
Now, eternity....Go.


----------



## EverGreen1231 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Yes, but does infinite love negate justice or does it dictate justice?



No, it doesn't. I'm just trying to look from the other side of the fence.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 23, 2014)

Salvation is from eternal death. The punishment is being removed from God and everlasting life. 
The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death, not everlasting punishment in a literal fire which would require science to explain.
Fires need three thing to burn.

I can't answer for all but the OP does make a logical point although I don't see lost souls as having an eternity past this life's eternity. So in that view this life is all they, Atheist and the lost have.


----------



## WaltL1 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> In his autobiography Darwin rejected God over the issue of He11 and eternal punishment calling it a " d a m n a b l e  doctrine."  I've heard it questioned many times on here as well.
> 
> My question is this:  If you object to the idea of eternal punishment (AND ONLY IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EITHER LIFE IMPRISONMENT OR THE DEATH SENTENCE ), isn't this a contradiction of the same principle in that in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?


I don't think they are comparable.


> in both cases the person is deemed unfit to EVER live in a given population?


Those given life imprisonment are deemed worthy to live within the prison population. Free of torture, 3 meals a day, can go to school, have a prison job etc etc. And not only that but they have the possibility for parole when their debt is deemed to be paid to society. Of course life without parole removes that one possibility but the others remain.
The death sentence is also free from daily torture etc and is done in what is supposed to be a painless process.
And we haven't mentioned that the bar that is set to go to he11 is waaaaay lower than the bar that will get you life imprisonment or the death sentence.

I personally don't know anybody who would choose daily torture forever over either one of the above choices.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Salvation is from eternal death. The punishment is being removed from God and everlasting life.
> The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death, not everlasting punishment in a literal fire which would require science to explain.
> Fires need three thing to burn.
> 
> I can't answer for all but the OP does make a logical point although I don't see lost souls as having an eternity past this life's eternity. So in that view this life is all they, Atheist and the lost have.



It's strange to me that you pick and choose certain miraculous things that need scientific explanation and some which do not.


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

Not all Christians even believe there is a he!!.(Based on biblical evidence)
 So, we have something in common with some of you.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> O.k. NO! It is not a contradiction, on numerous points.
> Now, eternity....Go.



I say it is.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> I don't think they are comparable.
> 
> Those given life imprisonment are deemed worthy to live within the prison population. Free of torture, 3 meals a day, can go to school, have a prison job etc etc. And not only that but they have the possibility for parole when their debt is deemed to be paid to society. Of course life without parole removes that one possibility but the others remain.
> The death sentence is also free from daily torture etc and is done in what is supposed to be a painless process.
> ...



No doubt it could be argued that the punishments are not comparable, but is not the principle the same?


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> Not all Christians even believe there is a he!!.(Based on biblical evidence)
> So, we have something in common with some of you.



That's correct on both points, but that has no bearing on the subject.


----------



## WaltL1 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> No doubt it could be argued that the punishments are not comparable, but is not the principle the same?


Sure the principle being punishment.
But Im not sure grounding your child for a week and beating them over the head with a 2x4 are the same principle.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Exactly.
> 
> If you believe that this life is all there is, then life in prison is in effect, eternity.  The principle is the same is it not?




Eternity is not the same thing as the length of your life.  I see why you want to make it seem that way.  You are trying to minimize the evil that eternity in He11 would implicate god of.  

"I will be burned until dead; my whole lifetime."  is not the same as "I will burn (unconsumed) for eternity". 

The hoops you have to go through......


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

Would banishment to a tropical island resort be the same? You are deemed unworthy to live in a specific population. You must spend the rest of your life on this tropical island, with all the amenities. 
Is that, or anything else, equivalent to eternal torture.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

660griz said:


> Would banishment to a tropical island resort be the same? You are deemed unworthy to live in a specific population. You must spend the rest of your life on this tropical island, with all the amenities.
> Is that, or anything else, equivalent to eternal torture.



I just don't get it.  

Either you are a modern Christian and don't believe in He11 and Noah and Balaam's donkey to which I would ask "Why believe in the resurrection?" or you are a REAL Christian who believes that a god who tortures souls for eternity is somehow good and just.


Truly bizarre.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Dec 23, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> I just don't get it.
> 
> Either you are a modern Christian and don't believe in He11 and Noah and Balaam's donkey to which I would ask "Why believe in the resurrection?" or you are a REAL Christian who believes that a god who tortures souls for eternity is somehow good and just.
> 
> ...



Ambush I don't think that's an entirely accurate portrayal , but I'm winding down here at work.  Probably won't be back till next week, so I'll let it lie and end this by wishing y'all a Merry Christmas.  Wish each of you and your loved ones the very best.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Ambush I don't think that's an entirely accurate portrayal , but I'm winding down here at work.  Probably won't be back till next week, so I'll let it lie and end this by wishing y'all a Merry Christmas.  Wish each of you and your loved ones the very best.



Best to you and yours as well.


----------



## EverGreen1231 (Dec 23, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> I just don't get it.



I concur. 

At any rate, y'all and yours have a merry Christmas.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

EverGreen1231 said:


> I concur.
> 
> At any rate, y'all and yours have a merry Christmas.




Just heard a great quote:

"Would you rather live with questions that will never be answered or answers that will never be questioned?"


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 23, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> It's strange to me that you pick and choose certain miraculous things that need scientific explanation and some which do not.



The only thing I haven't used science for is a virgin birth and life after death. Maybe spirits don't need science. The virgin birth; no way to explain that with genetics.
Some Christians believe it wasn't a virgin birth and that Jesus was the adopted Son of God.
We are adopted sons as well.


----------



## hobbs27 (Dec 23, 2014)

It seems odd to me that the very doctrines that the church has adopted that IS NOT biblical, are the very doctrines folks point to as an excuse to not believe.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> It seems odd to me that the very doctrines that the church has adopted that IS NOT biblical, are the very doctrines folks point to as an excuse to not believe.




That's not the only one by far.


----------



## 660griz (Dec 23, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> That's not the only one by far.



Not even close.


----------



## drippin' rock (Dec 23, 2014)

Here's my stab at it: 

We as humans impose sentences on the guilty.  We are here and now; we are tangible. H e l l is imposed by an invisible being from a 2000 year old book, and nobody has ever come back to say it is real. 

Big difference between the two to me.


----------



## hobbs27 (Dec 23, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Here's my stab at it:
> 
> We as humans impose sentences on the guilty.  We are here and now; we are tangible. H e l l is imposed by an invisible being from a 2000 year old book, and nobody has ever come back to say it is real.
> 
> Big difference between the two to me.



There's no eternal punishment in The Book , and there's no coming back from perishment.... I truly wish people would just preach what the Apostles preached, which did not include he11...not even once did they propose such a place existed.


----------



## drippin' rock (Dec 23, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> The only thing I haven't used science for is a virgin birth and life after death. Maybe spirits don't need science. The virgin birth; know way to explain that with genetics.
> Some Christians believe it wasn't a virgin birth and that Jesus was the adopted Son of God.
> We are adopted sons as well.



I'll answer for gemcrew.... Then they are not Christian.


----------



## drippin' rock (Dec 23, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> There's no eternal punishment in The Book , and there's no coming back from perishment.... I truly wish people would just preach what the Apostles preached, which did not include he11...not even once did they propose such a place existed.



Ok, I agree that the modern concept of H e l l was dreamed up by the Catholic Church and the baptists ran with it, but then we have to talk about talking snakes and donkeys, the ark, pillars of salt, whale swallowing, loaves and fishes, water to wine, raising the dead, blind to see, virgin birth, etc, etc.  

My answer is NOPE. Peddle that silliness elsewhere.


----------



## hobbs27 (Dec 23, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Ok, I agree that the modern concept of H e l l was dreamed up by the Catholic Church and the baptists ran with it, but then we have to talk about talking snakes and donkeys, the ark, pillars of salt, whale swallowing, loaves and fishes, water to wine, raising the dead, blind to see, virgin birth, etc, etc.
> 
> My answer is NOPE. Peddle that silliness elsewhere.



It seems your first concern would be could a spirit speak the world into existence? I believe God being a spirit did that very thing, therefore talking donkeys, turning someone into a pillar of salt, a virgin birth is no biggie to the one creator.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 23, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> I'll answer for gemcrew.... Then they are not Christian.



Humans including Jesus the man have 23 pairs of chromosomes.  In each pair, one chromosome comes from the mother and the other from the father.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> It seems your first concern would be could a spirit speak the world into existence? I believe God being a spirit did that very thing, therefore talking donkeys, turning someone into a pillar of salt, a virgin birth is no biggie to the one creator.



I agree.  



Artfuldodger said:


> Humans including Jesus the man have 23 pairs of chromosomes.  In each pair, one chromosome comes from the mother and the other from the father.



See above.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Dec 24, 2014)

seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.

Personally, If the God I serve is so small that I can comprehend each and every thing He did, He is not big enough to be my God.


----------



## Israel (Dec 24, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Just heard a great quote:
> 
> "Would you rather live with questions that will never be answered or answers that will never be questioned?"


That "would you rather" thing is the kicker.


----------



## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.
> 
> Personally, If the God I serve is so small that I can comprehend each and every thing He did, He is not big enough to be my God.


Of course one could make the point that this -


> Personally, If the God I serve is so small that I can comprehend each and every thing He did, He is not big enough to be my God


Is exactly why you have been indoctrinated to believe this -


> seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.


You personally (or anyone) don't actually have a clue of God's intellect or intelligence other than what you have been told in a book.


----------



## 660griz (Dec 24, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.



Too bad 'he' didn't dictate it well enough for the folks that he supposedly created could understand or a world and universe that would last forever. I am sure he had his reasons. Everybody gets bored with a toy at some point. I wish I could meet God, my first question would be Why?!


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Dec 24, 2014)

660griz said:


> Too bad 'he' didn't dictate it well enough for the folks that he supposedly created could understand or a world and universe that would last forever. I am sure he had his reasons. Everybody gets bored with a toy at some point. I wish I could meet God, my first question would be Why?!



You will get to meet Him.  I doubt you will ask "Why?"


----------



## drippin' rock (Dec 24, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> You will get to meet Him.  I doubt you will ask "Why?"



Resistance is futile.....


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 24, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.
> 
> Personally, If the God I serve is so small that I can comprehend each and every thing He did, He is not big enough to be my God.



Then would you agree salvation isn't only to a group who understands exactly how God created? I believe he used science and evolution to create. He uses science to maintain his creation.
We also don't agree on exactly who Jesus is as being Oneness or Trinitarian, etc., and or Jesus being God.
Because we can't understand exactly how to explain God and Jesus, we aren't removing our salvation which was granted by the grace of God.
Salvation is of the Lord.


----------



## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Of course one could make the point that this -
> 
> Is exactly why you have been indoctrinated to believe this -
> 
> You personally (or anyone) don't actually have a clue of God's intellect or intelligence other than what you have been told in a book.



If indeed they have read the book in its entirety.  

Then there's that pesky "understanding" part that they can't seem to agree on.


----------



## hobbs27 (Dec 24, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> If indeed they have read the book in its entirety.
> 
> Then there's that pesky "understanding" part that they can't seem to agree on.



Presuppositions from indoctrination of different denominations is hard to overcome. When a preacher needs an Amen from the congregation he doesnt quote a verse from the bible but yells out a denominational belief. I've seen it in too many churches.

 The bible teaches a different story than most denominations teach...they have the basics, but fail on the details.  IMO


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Dec 24, 2014)

I believe "salvation" is from the curse handed down on Adams descendants of "you will surely die". No more, no less. No eternal suffering. Just death. Biblical man was made eternal but due to sin was cursed. Jesus has regained what Adam lost.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Dec 24, 2014)

EverGreen1231 said:


> I can't answer for folks who believe this but, I think the main rub comes with the idea that a God of infinite love would be capable of such a thing.


On this note, I don't think that God would make anyone suffer for eternity because they failed to figure him out. As our creator, he would have to assume some responsibility for that.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 24, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Presuppositions from indoctrination of different denominations is hard to overcome. When a preacher needs an Amen from the congregation he doesnt quote a verse from the bible but yells out a denominational belief. I've seen it in too many churches.
> 
> The bible teaches a different story than most denominations teach...they have the basics, but fail on the details.  IMO



Amen!   Sorry, I couldn't resist but I do agree.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Dec 24, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> I'll answer for gemcrew.... Then they are not Christian.


My belief lost the battle for the name "orthodox".... but what does "Christian" actually mean. I would say that it has to do with "Christ"So I would conclude that those that believe Jesus is the Christ would be called Christian. However, I usually in reference to my belief, make it know that "I call myself Christian according to my own definition"


----------



## fireman32 (Dec 25, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Salvation is from eternal death. The punishment is being removed from God and everlasting life.
> The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death, not everlasting punishment in a literal fire which would require science to explain.
> Fires need three thing to burn.
> 
> Not trying to be smart, but fire is recognized as needing four things to burn now.


----------



## 660griz (Dec 25, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> You will get to meet Him.  I doubt you will ask "Why?"



Why?

Cool. Saw Santa this morning too.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Dec 25, 2014)

fireman32 said:


> Artfuldodger said:
> 
> 
> > Salvation is from eternal death. The punishment is being removed from God and everlasting life.
> ...


----------



## atlashunter (Dec 27, 2014)

This is the context of what Darwin said.



> I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredable doctrine.



It's a doctrine that prescribes eternal fire and torment for anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus. How they lived their life is irrelevant. The jew who didn't believe but was a decent human being is doomed after being shot in the back of the head by a Nazi firing squad. The christian that pulled the trigger who believes in Jesus and repents on their deathbed gets eternal bliss. Darwin was right.


----------



## atlashunter (Dec 27, 2014)

NE GA Pappy said:


> seems to me that this is all a bunch of people with limited intellect and knowledge discussing how a Being with infite intellect and knowledge should have done what He did so it could be explained within the confines of their limited intellect and knowledge.
> 
> Personally, If the God I serve is so small that I can comprehend each and every thing He did, He is not big enough to be my God.



So any time the christian god does something people deem to be moral they are of sufficient intelligence to discern it as so and give him glory. But when he does something people deem evil they are just too stupid to understand and  form a moral judgment.


----------



## Israel (Dec 27, 2014)

Do you remember a guy named Marshall McLuhan?
Wrote a book called "The Medium is the Message"?
It was the rage for a little bit, you know how things get hold like "The Peter Principle", "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Manintenance", etc. I don't know how old everyone is, so if you lived through them you probably remember them, if not, you may have heard of them, and the more studious be even far more familiar with its contents than I. 
But, to the disciple, the medium is the message...it's not do this, do that, believe this, don't believe that, attend this, talk this way, etc. (My poverty of expression does not diminish the Lord, only shows my desperate need of him)

But, what I aim for in simplest terms, is, Jesus is the message...the messenger himself, is the message. When I wag my finger piously quoting scripture, or pronounce from some  seeming olympian height a thing, not unlike Moses...to all "you" rebels in my self righteousness, it matters not a whit what I say, I am a laughingstock (rightly) to you, and a shame to heaven.
Yes, Jesus attracts many with his power, his confidence, his overwhelming security in his authority...and men, generally, when perceiving that, like that, in the place of shifting sands.

But he himself, of all brokenness in delivering this "message" ultimately makes plain to the believer...(at least to the some I have seen, heard, believed)...that this place is not for parading ones righteousness, nor delivering of great and opulent oratory...but of learning of being one with THE one who, not only warned and entreated as need be, but allowed for himself to be so consumed of the truth of it, he gladly gave of himself, and then gladly gave himself (itself) in exchange. 

It's one thing to warn a man, running away from him, "don't go around that corner, I just looked and there's a lion loose. You'll be torn to shreds"  It's quite another for a man (unlike me) to come and say "I have seen something of the gravest peril, it's a hungry lion, it's not good for you to face it alone"...and that man, there staying with you, shows his honor by tackling it when it appears. 
And, you are spared. 

I know my language sucks, my examples childish and infantile.

But that is the difference, at least to me.
Many have, I don't doubt, as I have and perhaps still do, find it easier to "holler" at you from afar, fleeing from you...leaving you as a kind of welcome buffer (gee, if the lion gets him, at least it will slow him down enough to give me an even better head start)...which in a very particular way puts the lie to my "warning of you...out of "love"...in a very particular light. And so I can run through the streets, congratulating myself of my "great commitment" to delivering the message..."be saved!"...all the while putting myself as much (or so I think) out of harm's way...leaving all others for fodder. Yeah, that's pretty much me...a self serving coward. Rightly do you laugh at me. (Talk about the most vapid and venal social climbing name dropper! "I know God and you don't nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah"!)

But Him? Not him. 

Mock me for my inconsistency, my selfishness, my pusillanimity, and craven self aggrandizements...yes, you are "not wrong".

But Him? No, not him. He is all I am not, could yet hope to be in whatever measure I am allowed...but really, not him.
I suppose I could tell you of my "brush" with a lion, but, if I have no scars, why, how, with garments arranged so neatly, a sly smirk and condescending attitude, could you, would you, ever believe me?
Sure, I can throw dust on myself (and have), try to look the disheveled part (and have) put on the sincerest face (and have) affect the most endearing tone (and have)...yet all of these give way when you see the Nikes on my feet, prepared to run from you....as the "one" (you) I refuse to get too near...for fear of knowing the lightning, or lion's coming, and it would be so much the better for me...if only one of us "bought the farm"...and that...not me.

These things are strange to discuss, stranger still that I could expect you to even read these words, stranger still that through a vessel such as the one typing I would say...despite what you think or believe of me...I have seen one who sticks closer than a brother in these things.
You would rightly ask..."then why aren't you more like him...christian?"
I am still learning how to play fair, it's something I have never been good at. But, really, I have no excuse.


----------



## atlashunter (Dec 27, 2014)

Too much verbal diarrhea. How about a cliffs notes version?


----------



## Israel (Dec 27, 2014)

atlashunter said:


> Too much verbal diarrhea. How about a cliffs notes version?



My hypocrisy knows no bounds.
But He is not a hypocrite.
Somewhere the "no bounds" has met hope.
Something's gotta give.


----------



## atlashunter (Dec 27, 2014)

Israel said:


> My hypocrisy knows no bounds.
> But He is not a hypocrite.
> Somewhere the "no bounds" has met hope.
> Something's gotta give.



You say that but your morality far exceeds his.


----------



## Israel (Dec 27, 2014)

atlashunter said:


> You say that but your morality far exceeds his.



Have you considered him?


----------

