# The Devil



## SarahFair (Oct 16, 2010)

I was wondering if there was/is anything equivalent to the christian devil in any other religions.


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## Tim L (Oct 16, 2010)

Zororastrianism; two gods; one "good", one "evil"; it also includes heaven and hail..it tenants teach that good and evil will battle for control of humanity and that good will ultimately win. In many ways it had more in common to the monolthic (one God) religons of today than the other religons of its time in Eygpt and Greece.. This was the principal religon in Persia; present day Iran and Iraq; ...millions of followers during the time of the great persian empires.  Some around today, mostly in India, but most were wiped out by muslims by 1000 AD.


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## apoint (Oct 16, 2010)

Only man is deceived on who is God or how many Gods. The names keep changing to deceive people. Just the devils deceiving tricks.
 Funny, thru all history the same game is played out but the names change to deceive the ignorant who want to believe anything but the truth. If the devil can get you to believe a lie he has won you over . Bible says," My people die for lack of knowledge".


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## SneekEE (Oct 16, 2010)

I doubt there is  anything equivalent to the biblical satan, devil, serpent, dragon... but proly many similar to the worlds view od the christian devil.


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## SarahFair (Oct 16, 2010)

It is just in my very _limited_ study of other religions I havent come across anything of the sort. Nothing like "hades" either


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## apoint (Oct 16, 2010)

The very first thing satan wants you to know is,
There is no God or devil... After that all things are Ok and Do as you want. If the devil can get you to believe that, then there is no chance for salvation. He has won from the start...
 Satan also puts many false religions out there so you cant find the real one. Or you group them all together and throw them all away...
 Either way you will be decived by satan lies.
 There is only one truth, not 2. If there was 2 truths or 2 gods one would have to be inferior and false. There is only one true God of creation, and one devil..


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## SarahFair (Oct 16, 2010)

Well thanks for that apoint but this discussion isnt about the Devil himself... 
Its about other religions "devils" 

Lets keep it on topic


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## apoint (Oct 16, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Well thanks for that apoint but this discussion isnt about the Devil himself...
> Its about other religions "devils"
> 
> Lets keep it on topic



Oh sorry, I was offering my opinion on other devils, they are the same devil by diffrent names. 
Wont bother ya again.


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## SneekEE (Oct 16, 2010)

Some teach the jin  or  devil spoken of in Islam is the same satan of the christian bible bible, but it isnt the same creation. Islam doesnt teach satan was a fallen angel.


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## SarahFair (Oct 16, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> Some teach the jin  or  devil spoken of in Islam is the same satan of the christian bible bible, but it isnt the same creation. Islam doesnt teach satan was a fallen angel.



Where do they say he is from?
Is he "just" as God is?


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## SarahFair (Oct 16, 2010)

apoint said:


> Oh sorry, I was offering my opinion on other devils, they are the same devil by diffrent names.
> Wont bother ya again.



You are not a bother 
Just dont want this discussion to turn into one about the Christain Devil


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## apoint (Oct 16, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> You are not a bother
> Just dont want this discussion to turn into one about the Christain Devil



 No problem, and understood, I have nothing else to offer.


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## Thor827 (Oct 17, 2010)

The old Norse religion has a few nefarious characters. Some examples are Loki ( who was a trickster and enjoyed playing games with people and the other gods), Hel ( Loki's daughter who ruled the realm of the dead),  Surtr ( a giant who wielded a sword of fire), Fenrir ( Loki's son who was a ravenous giant wolf), and Jormangundr (the world serpent, also Loki's son). 

According to the myths, these characters will join forces at the end of the world, leading an army of the dead against the Gods of Asgard and all of the brave dead who reside in Valhalla (Odin's hall for slain warriors) and Folkvangr (Freya's field where people who died in defense of their families and land reside). 

As far as one central devil though, there isn't one. Hope this helps......


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## SarahFair (Oct 17, 2010)

Are these vengful gods though?

Hel rules the realm of the dead but is that really evil?


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## Thor827 (Oct 17, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Are these vengful gods though?
> 
> Hel rules the realm of the dead but is that really evil?



Not necessarily. She gets associated because of the family connection. Loki, Fenrir,and  Jormangundr are vengeful though.


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## Lowjack (Oct 17, 2010)

Haven't you heard the Devil was defeated in Georgia ?
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## SarahFair (Oct 17, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Haven't you heard the Devil was defeated in Georgia ?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWPX5nr6esM



I heard and I watched it happen myself (they do showings nightly during the summer at stone mountain park )


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## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2010)

I googled: "the devil in other religions".  This was one of the first hits:

http://altreligion.about.com/od/mythologicalfigures/a/satan.htm


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## tomtlb66 (Oct 17, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I was wondering if there was/is anything equivalent to the christian devil in any other religions.



In Greek mythology, there was hades as well. The Mayan believed in different evil beings such as the god of war that they would sacrifice to. All religions or beliefs to my knowledge have a form of what the devil is. 

They just don't call him by the same name of sort.


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## SarahFair (Oct 17, 2010)

There are some religions out there that do not have any kind of Devil 

I did not think Hades was evil. People think of him as evil because he cares for the underworld/dead but someone has to.. 
From wiki..


> According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the universe ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently. Because of his association with the underworld, Hades is often interpreted in modern times as the Grim Reaper, even though he was not.


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## earl (Oct 17, 2010)

I find it interesting that Christianity is one of the few religions that use the carrot and the stick to the extent that it does.


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## Thor827 (Oct 18, 2010)

tomtlb66 said:


> In Greek mythology, there was hades as well. The Mayan believed in different evil beings such as the god of war that they would sacrifice to. All religions or beliefs to my knowledge have a form of what the devil is.
> 
> They just don't call him by the same name of sort.



Being a God of War doesn't necessarily mean the deity is evil. If the civilization was based around warfare, it would have been considered a positive figure.


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## Inthegarge (Oct 18, 2010)

earl said:


> I find it interesting that Christianity is one of the few religions that use the carrot and the stick to the extent that it does.



As opposed to those who threaten death to any who disobey ??????


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## SarahFair (Oct 18, 2010)

Inthegarge said:


> As opposed to those who threaten death to any who disobey ??????


If Im not mistaken that has happend in christianity as well. But, that is not what this thread is about.


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## dawg2 (Oct 18, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I was wondering if there was/is anything equivalent to the christian devil in any other religions.


You would have a shorter list if you asked, "What religions do NOT have a devil?"


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## pnome (Oct 18, 2010)

Here are a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatsu-Mikaboshi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acolnahuacatl_(deity)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malsumis


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## SarahFair (Oct 18, 2010)

Kali was in control of death and destrucivness. While scry she is not evil.

Loki started out as a trickster but became deceitful and a liar. He mostly messed with the gods and not humans if I understand correctly.

Yama was the ruler of death. If I read right he is the one who judges souls. If they have done wrong in life they will be sent back to rebirth if they have done good they go to heaven. It varies with each religion.. but in none is he "evil"

There isnt much on Amatsu-Mikaboshi but that he was here before creationg and something about him blowing up and he left behind evil... or something 

That is all I have read on so far.
But I just want to add:
Just because a god is  the ruler of the underworld or dead does not make them the equivalent of satan


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## ambush80 (Oct 19, 2010)

If you are talking about the Christian God, remember that He could stop the Devil if he wanted to.  That means that He lets the Devil do what the Devil does as part of His plan.  He's in control of the Devil.  The Devil is a tool that He uses to exercise his will.  And that makes perfect sense to me, considering the way that things shake out around here.


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## pnome (Oct 19, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> But I just want to add:
> Just because a god is  the ruler of the underworld or dead does not make them the equivalent of satan



Well, I doubt there will be an _exact_ match.  Satan wears many hats in the Christian mythology.  He is trickster, ruler of the underworld, source of evil, etc.. Different mythologies might have separate deities for each role.


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## Tim L (Oct 19, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Kali was in control of death and destrucivness. While scry she is not evil.
> 
> Loki started out as a trickster but became deceitful and a liar. He mostly messed with the gods and not humans if I understand correctly.
> 
> ...




Not exactly true (that the "Christian" devil is the only "evil" devil...see article below (is fasinating since many of the ideas in Zororastrian are so similar to those in Judism and Christianity and raises lots of potential "issues"):



Judaism Meets Zoroastrianism

Judaism and Zoroasrtianism are both revealed religions and share a great deal in common. God imparts his revelation and pronounces his commandments to Zoroaster on "the Mountain of the Two Holy Communing Ones"; in the other Yahweh holds a similar communion with Moses on Sinai. According to jewishencyclodedia.com the points of resemblance between Zoroastrianism and Judaism are many. In both faiths God is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, and creator of the universe. God operates through and governs the universe with the use of angels and archangels. This presents a parallel to Yahweh that is found in the Old Testament. The Zoroastrianism Spenta Mainyu is the Christian "Holy Spirit." 

Ahura Mazda's power is hampered by Ahriman (the Devil) and his host of demons. Their dominion like Satan's will be destroyed at the end of the world. The world is the Devil's domain. Zoroastrian eschatological teachings-the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting are nearly identical to Christianity. 

Both are similar in their cosmological ideas. The six days of Creation in Genesis finds a parallel in the six periods of Creation described in the Zoroastrian scriptures. Mankind, according to each religion, is descended from a single couple, and Mashya (man) and Mashyana (women) are the Iranian Adam and Eve. Genesis has two Creation stories; the first man/women is created together, the second we have the Rib tradition. In the Bible the Flood story is nearly identical to an Avesta winter story. 

It's a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other. Most scholars believe that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology, demonology, and resurrection. Also the monotheistic conception of Yahweh may have been changed or influenced by being opposed to the dualism of the Persians. 

The early Jews were not monotheists but henotheists or even outright polytheists. They had one central god but believed in other gods. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3). This was the tribal god, often bloodthirsty and murderous who not only (they claimed) ordered the killing of women and children, but also even directly murdered the first born of Egypt. Every tribe seemed to have their own god. This was no God of love or compassion, but a god of survival. 

True monotheism would come later. In Isaiah 43:10, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me..." (KJV) 

This servant was Isaiah. Another servant is revealed in Isaiah 44:28, "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid..." 

And this most devastating statement in 45:1, "Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden..." Cyrus was the "anointed" or savior of Israel. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. With the great Persian King Cyrus we have the first real monotheistic declarations in the Bible. This is the first expression of universalism. Isaiah also first introduces the idea not of false gods, but only one god. 

God became a universal God of love: good, perfect, more remote, and identical to Ahura Mazda. It would be the missions of Nehemiah and Ezra backed by the Achaemenian Imperial Government's authority to make the Jews conform to more than the new ideal of monotheism. 

Over half a century later we arrive at the Achaemenian King Artaxerxes whose name also appears in Hebrew Scriptures of Ezra (verses 7:7, 7:12). Artaxerxes followed the tradition of benevolence towards the Jews as set by his ancestors. He appointed Nehemiah one of his loyal servants to govern Jerusalem. 

Ezra had been born and educated in Babylon and was also sent by Artaxerxes to see if the people of Judea would "be agreeable to the law of God" and "to teach in Israel statutes and ordinances" (Ezra 7:10-11), "For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments...Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel..." 

In Ezra 4:7, "And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian tongue, and interpreted in the Syrian tongue..." Everything was being done in Aramaic the official language of this part of the Persian Empire. By the first century when Jesus was born, everyone spoke Aramaic while Greek had become the language of commerce. Hebrew had been relegated to the Temple. 

There are explicit indications of widespread religious conversion in Ezra 6:19-21 and Nehemiah 10:28-29, but why would Jews have to convert to Judaism? Nehemiah, chapter 8, discusses an event where Ezra read from the book of law which neither Hebrew speakers nor Aramaic speakers could understand - the words had to be translated by priests. 

Ezra's major reform was the prohibition of foreign wives. Although marrying foreign wives had always been the most favored Jewish practice (including Moses), such marriages violate Zoroastrian law. The reality is better expressed in Judges 3:5-6, "And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites: And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons..." There is no proof of any mass slaughter in Canaan and the "other gods" may have been edited in later. 

When the Babylonians conquered Judah, they exiled the royal family, aristocrats, and upper classes. Most of the common people were left behind. When the 40,000 or so returned (many stayed behind), they rejected those they found that had intermarried with others. Many still considered themselves Jews, but were still rejected. They. Nonetheless the returning Jews separated themselves from others who became the Samarians. Strife began at once and divided the nation. 

We are told Nehemiah, who followed the Zoroastrian purity code rigidly, was responsible for the transition of the Jewish purity code. The purity laws were no longer restricted to the Temple, but had to be exercised in 'the fields, the kitchen, the bed and the street (Boyce, History of Zoroastrianism Vol. II, p. 190). The Persian King Darius is our hero in the Book of Daniel. 

Jews did keep circumcision, which doesn't exist in Zoroastrianism. 

There is no devil in Judaism and never was. The term "devil" doesn't exist in the Old Testament. The term Satan appears 13 times in the Old Testament mainly in Job and in every case is a servant of God. But the late post-exile Zechariah 3:2, "And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" This is as close to conflict as they come. The term Lucifer1 (light bearer?) occurs only in Isaiah 14:12, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" and I see nothing confrontational in this. 

The New Testament is another matter. Satan appears 34 times while devil appears 57 times both used in the same context. No doubt Christianity is dualistic just like Zoroastrianism. Judaism did produce two dualistic cults: the apocalyptic sect that gave us the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Gnostics that gave us many of the Nag Hammadi Gospels. Both were brooding, angry belief systems that saw the world and flesh as evil and sought to destroy it to bring on some Kingdom of God in one form or another. Christianity for the most part evolved from these, in particular Apostles John and Paul. 

It is also said John the Baptist (a cousin of Jesus?) was influenced by these Zoroastrian influenced end-times cults such as those that left writings such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. John was an enormous influence on Jesus at first. 

The devil (Ahriman) was an evil spirit in Zoroastrianism and some claim that by the third century B.C., Zoroaster's monotheism was replaced with dualism in some areas. Manicheans developed from the Gnostic teachings of Mani, who taught that the flesh is evil and the spirit is good. He advocated denying the flesh to free the spirit and had an influence on early Christian saints in particular St. Augustine. Augustine was the father of Protestantism. 

In summery, Zoroastrianism and the Persians were friendly with Judaism and caused profound changes. This interaction produced true monotheism, a more universal God, imparted the strict purity laws into Judaism. But Judaism rejected Persian dualism of a devil that ruled world to be defeated by a god sent savior. God alone and no other rules the universe and earth. Under Judaism, this "Messiah" was be human, a military religious leader in the nationalist sense. Very important as well was both faiths followed high moral values of family, protecting the sick and helpless, and aversion to sexual perversion. Revelation and God's Commandments ruled all. Both would clash head on with Greece.


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## earl (Oct 19, 2010)

I do believe that is the longest post I have ever seen you make. Great job!!


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## crackerdave (Oct 20, 2010)

apoint said:


> Oh sorry, I was offering my opinion on other devils, they are the same devil by diffrent names.
> Wont bother ya again.



Don't be so sensitive,apoint.Everyone is _not_ out to get you!


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

Sarah, I think you will find that most people will sieze on the first similarity and ascribe that being as "The Devil". 

There has been a long held Christian duality perspective. It is either one or the other, there is no 3rd 4th or 5th choice or option to make, all questions are yes or no. 

So in some people's minds if you can't prove it is from God the alternative is it must be The Devil.

However remove the bias and you find as you have spoken of that in other religions the roles and duties of Satan are broken up between various Gods or other beings. Hades ruled the Underworld but he was never seen as "evil" only as having dominion over the dead. The role of Trickster is only seen as inherantly evil in some religions, in others the role of trickster is to reflect people's follies at them. To take people's faults and biases reflect them and use them to instruct the people in humility.


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## crackerdave (Oct 20, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Well thanks for that apoint but this discussion isnt about the Devil himself...
> Its about other religions "devils"
> 
> Lets keep it on topic



Miss Sarah, you _know_ that ain't gonna happen with this bunch!


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## redneck_billcollector (Nov 22, 2010)

The post by Rouster is right on the point, Jews did not have a concept of satan/the devil until the babylonian captivity.  He is not mentioned at all in jewish writtings until this time frame.  Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion that had a concept of a "bad' force combating with the good. The major bad force for jews until this time was Baal and other pagan gods of the region.  When satan first appeared in jewish writtings he was more of a "helper" of God, just look at his role in the story of Job, he and God were not adversarial at all, it was more of a bet between the two that just so happened to have Job as the one who had to pay the price.
Most religions have a "bad" force out there lurking in the shadows, but except for Islam and Christianity there is actually not a being that has a role or history like that of satan.

I never understood the emphasis on him in Christianity because he really isn't mentioned in the bible that much but to hear some folks talk about him, you would think the bible is all about him.  Ask every christian about how he came about you hear the story of the fallen angel, yet it isn't in the bible, that story comes from the jewish apocrypha which were books never accepted by the christian church nor the jewish faith as a whole.  

Most of the concept we have of satan is not from a religious source at all, it is from late medival poetry and stories (Dante', Milton, etc...).


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## redneck_billcollector (Nov 22, 2010)

tomtlb66 said:


> In Greek mythology, there was hades as well. The Mayan believed in different evil beings such as the god of war that they would sacrifice to. All religions or beliefs to my knowledge have a form of what the devil is.
> 
> They just don't call him by the same name of sort.



Hades was not evil, all departed souls went there.  It was actually the underworld that was the domain of the god Hades, the brother of Zeus and Posiden. Your life determined how your time in hades was spent, Sysiphus was an example of what could happen to someone if they tried to cheat death (hades).


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## Gabassmaster (Dec 7, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I was wondering if there was/is anything equivalent to the christian devil in any other religions.



They might think there is........... but there is only one devil so others cannot be equivalent


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## Thor827 (Dec 7, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> They might think there is........... but there is only one devil so others cannot be equivalent



Don't you have a bridge to guard somewhere?


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