# A New Planting Technique



## CNC

Before the QDMA forum was closed down….several of us on that forum had been experimenting will a new planting technique for the last several years. We’re still experimenting but we’ve seen very positive results and it’s really starting to catch on across different regions of the country. The video below shows a throw n’roll variation of this new technique. I use a throw n’ mow approach because I don’t have a cultipacker and because my thatch is so thick that I like to process the biomass a little. With folks getting ready to plant food plots soon, I wanted to share it with you guys. If anyone has any questions….feel free to post them up. 

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## GAGE

I have been following your ideas for along time CNC, and this year I may finally give this a try in a couple spots. Thanks for continuing to share your success.


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## CNC

GAGE said:


> I have been following your ideas for along time CNC, and this year I may finally give this a try in a couple spots. Thanks for continuing to share your success.



Awesome!.....Good luck with it. If you have any questions, just post 'em up and I'd be glad to try and help you out. A lot of folks were really skeptical at first (and I don't blame them) but as more and more folks try it and have success with it....it makes it easier for others to take that first step into trying something different. I know this method sure does make life a lot simpler come planting time and the improvement to soil health is day and night for most folks over time. I'm growing much better plots now than I used to in these sandy soil conditions. I've went from beach sand to near potting soil.


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## Gut_Pile

Are you spraying before you plant?


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## CNC

Gut_Pile said:


> Are you spraying before you plant?



The last couple years I've skipped spraying. If you wait late enough into the planting window....you can just mow after all the summer annuals have set seed and it'll terminate most of them. I'd recommend to go ahead and spray though for anyone trying it for the first time. Spray...wait a couple weeks....broadcast seed....then mow. 

When mowing....keep in mind that you're not just mowing....you're processing and spreading biomass/thatch. Take your time and don't be afraid to make a second pass to process and spread things more evenly. Don't leave the thatch wind rowed. You want the end product to look like it's been blown out of a hay blower. If you're dealing with a lot of biomass...go ahead and plan on making two passes. Make your first one a rough cut with your cutter raised up a little....and then come back on a second pass with it let down low to put a finished cut on it. Folks with thin biomass won't have this issue in the beginning but as your soil health improves....you'll notice your field growing larger crops of biomass over time. You can spread seed between passes as well instead of trying to broadcast into 6-8 ft tall stuff. Make your first rough pass....spread seed...then make the finishing pass.


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## Triple C

GAGE said:


> I have been following your ideas for along time CNC, and this year I may finally give this a try in a couple spots. Thanks for continuing to share your success.



X2!!!  Been following CNC's threads on the now defunct QDMA forum for several years.  Did our 1st throw and mow plots last fall in 2 of our plots.  It works!  No tillage, just sprayed, waited a couple of weeks, mowed and bingo...seed germinated.  Good stuff!  CNC...Glad you're taking the time to post on this site.  Hopefully a lot of interest here.

I also continued traditional tillage in our largest plots but was well pleased with the germination of this no till, soil building method on the plots we tried it.


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## misterpink

I have 5 plots that I planted last fall in wheat, oats, red and white clover.  I want to do the same this year.

I need to add P and K to my plots.  P and K are OK to leave on the surface right?  I've read if I don't dig N into the dirt most of it will evaporate.  

If I try this method should I:
1. Kill everything with herbicide.  
2. Wait a couple of weeks.
3.  Broadcast oat,wheat, clover mix with my N,P,K fert.
4.Mow
5. Roll

Is that right?


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## CNC

Triple C said:


> X2!!!  Been following CNC's threads on the now defunct QDMA forum for several years.  Did our 1st throw and mow plots last fall in 2 of our plots.  It works!  No tillage, just sprayed, waited a couple of weeks, mowed and bingo...seed germinated.  Good stuff!  CNC...Glad you're taking the time to post on this site.  Hopefully a lot of interest here.
> 
> I also continued traditional tillage in our largest plots but was well pleased with the germination of this no till, soil building method on the plots we tried it.



Thanks Triple C!! Glad to hear of your success....


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## CNC

misterpink said:


> I have 5 plots that I planted last fall in wheat, oats, red and white clover.  I want to do the same this year.
> 
> I need to add P and K to my plots.  P and K are OK to leave on the surface right?  I've read if I don't dig N into the dirt most of it will evaporate.
> 
> If I try this method should I:
> 1. Kill everything with herbicide.
> 2. Wait a couple of weeks.
> 3.  Broadcast oat,wheat, clover mix with my N,P,K fert.
> 4.Mow
> 5. Roll
> 
> Is that right?



Correct....You can just mow or roll, you don't have to do both. The thing I would be careful with about using a roll method is that with really heavy biomass...you're going to create a weed mat that will suppress seedling growth. Mowing leaves some air space in the hay for the seedlings to emerge through. As far as losing N....I don't think that's not really a big issue unless you're using Urea. It's more volatile than the other forms of N.


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## CNC

Here's a really good video to watch. This is where a lot of the original ideas stemmed from. If you'll notice how they press the thatch down and use it for weed suppression...you'll see what I mean about heavy biomass suppressing seedling emergence using a throw n' roll. It's something to consider as your biomass loads increase. I like the mowing approach better for heavy biomass plantings.

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Link Removed by Moderation


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## Stroker

Been doing this for years using only a 2 gallon pump up sprayer, 20 hp riding mower, and a large over the shoulder seed and fertilizer spreader. Mow at highest setting first, sow seed and fertilizer, then mow several more times, mow low as you can. Best results have come from a wheat, red clover, and purple top turnip mix sowed right before rain. Oats do not germinate well when top sowed. Timing the weather right is your key to success.


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## CNC

Stroker said:


> Been doing this for years using only a 2 gallon pump up sprayer, 20 hp riding mower, and a large over the shoulder seed and fertilizer spreader. Mow at highest setting first, sow seed and fertilizer, then mow several more times, mow low as you can. Best results have come from a wheat, red clover, and purple top turnip mix sowed right before rain. Oats do not germinate well when top sowed. Timing the weather right is your key to success.



I agree. I’d add cereal rye to that list as well. If you haven’t ever given it a try, I highly recommend it for a technique such as this. It’ll dang near sprout on concrete and it’ll outperform any of the other cereal grains in poor soil conditions. It also isn’t nearly as nitrogen loving as wheat. When cereal rye runs N deficient, it just slows down growth where as wheat starts turning yellow and rank. Cereal rye is actually a nitrogen scavenger that some farmers use as a cover crop with one purpose being to mop up and recycle any excess nitrogen from the summer plantings. So no one gets confused….this is NOT ryegrass. Cereal rye is a different plant. It’ll either be Elbon or Wrens Abruzzi. That's what is planted in my pics above.


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## Canuck5

Good stuff!!  Thanks for posting!


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## CNC

Canuck5 said:


> Good stuff!!  Thanks for posting!



No problem Canuck!.....I would have done it sooner, but its hard for me to keep up with too many threads and adequately answer questions. With the QDMA forum shutting down now, I figured I’d branch out to some new audiences. It’s much easier to introduce this idea to people now that others have tried it and had success. It was a rough go there in the beginning trying to convince folks that you don't have to till to plant things like cereal grains, clovers, brassicas, etc….I’m sure there are still many out there right now looking at this thread with a very skeptical eye. I welcome constructive criticism for anyone who may have comments or questions.


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## BCPbuckhunter

Thanks CNC, I got all my ideas from you over on the QDMA forum, I am going to try your ideas out this fall. I am going to plant clovers and use the cereal rye for reasons that LC suggested-man he possessed a wealth of knowledge. I am also going to include some chicory and radishes. I plan on doing a start to finish thread regardless of my outcome. I just did two small test strips where I sprayed a small area and put out a small amount of seed and mowed it down on top and another spot beside it that I had spayed and threw some seed out and rolled it just to see if I got much difference in this area.


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## CNC

BCPbuckhunter said:


> Thanks CNC, I got all my ideas from you over on the QDMA forum, I am going to try your ideas out this fall. I am going to plant clovers and use the cereal rye for reasons that LC suggested-man he possessed a wealth of knowledge. I am also going to include some chicory and radishes. I plan on doing a start to finish thread regardless of my outcome. I just did two small test strips where I sprayed a small area and put out a small amount of seed and mowed it down on top and another spot beside it that I had spayed and threw some seed out and rolled it just to see if I got much difference in this area.



Good deal!....I look forward to seeing your progress. One of my favorite parts of this whole ordeal has been seeing others try it and have success.


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## BuckNasty83

I'm going to be trying this method this fall also.  We took a brush hog to a 2 acre pipeline strip 2 weeks ago. Mostly did it to allow the lime truck to spread lime.  Now it's been raining a lot since then and still haven't been able to get lime delivered yet. 

Anyway,  I'm guessing were going to spray in 2 weeks,  wait a week,  or 2 then btoadcast the 1st or second week of Sept.

What I'm worried about is the thatch that is already down. It won't allow good seed to soil contact.  Going to take the tractor out to try aND clean it up,  but the only implement we have (rake wise ) is a sub soiler. Hopefully that will help , I dunno. 

I'm curious if mowing 2 weeks ago will cause this field to grow too high in another 2 weeks for the gly to effectively work? It'll be a total of 4+ weeks since we've mowed by the time we spray.


Also can you broadcast oats, or wheat like clover using this method? I know rye grain will work,  but I don't really want it.  Is it an annual, or pre? I want something to hunt over this season and don't want to have to keep mowing in the future. I hear rye is way down the list of preference.

Planting pennington Buckmaster ultimate .

Durana
Patriot
Crimson 
Medium red
Chicory


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## CNC

My bad mods.....Could someone explain how to embed the video please. Are you talking about the "insert link" option that looks like a paper clip on the earth?


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## Canuck5




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## Canuck5

CNC said:


> My bad mods.....Could someone explain how to embed the video please. Are you talking about the "insert link" option that looks like a paper clip on the earth?



If you right click on the Youtube video and hit "copy embed code", then paste it, it will pop up


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## CNC

BuckNasty83 said:


> I'm going to be trying this method this fall also.  We took a brush hog to a 2 acre pipeline strip 2 weeks ago. Mostly did it to allow the lime truck to spread lime.  Now it's been raining a lot since then and still haven't been able to get lime delivered yet.
> 
> Anyway,  I'm guessing were going to spray in 2 weeks,  wait a week,  or 2 then btoadcast the 1st or second week of Sept.
> 
> What I'm worried about is the thatch that is already down. It won't allow good seed to soil contact.  Going to take the tractor out to try aND clean it up,  but the only implement we have (rake wise ) is a sub soiler. Hopefully that will help , I dunno.
> 
> I'm curious if mowing 2 weeks ago will cause this field to grow too high in another 2 weeks for the gly to effectively work? It'll be a total of 4+ weeks since we've mowed by the time we spray.
> 
> 
> Also can you broadcast oats, or wheat like clover using this method? I know rye grain will work,  but I don't really want it.  Is it an annual, or pre? I want something to hunt over this season and don't want to have to keep mowing in the future. I hear rye is way down the list of preference.
> 
> Planting pennington Buckmaster ultimate .
> 
> Durana
> Patriot
> Crimson
> Medium red
> Chicory



I think you'll be fine to go ahead and go with your original plan if you get enough regrowth to cover the seed over. You're basically germinating seed the same way you would between two wet paper towels. 

As far as cereal rye not being preferred.....I've not seen anything to suggest that. I usually have 20-25 deer in the above field during late winter feeding heavily on the rye. What I've found that effects preference is having a deep green, vibrantly growing plant versus one that's struggling and turning yellows, purples, and reds. This is very common for me to see over here in Alabama. Many people plant wheat and fertilize only at planting time. By the time our late season rut gets here, many field are running nitrogen deficient and turning colors during the most important time for it to be lush and green.


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## CNC

Canuck5 said:


> If you right click on the Youtube video and hit "copy embed code", then paste it, it will pop up



Ok.....thanks! That's how I was actually wanting to post the videos but on the other forum I'm on, there's a link button on the tool bar. I didn't know you could do it this other way. Let me try this again....

Here is the missing link from the Undercover Farmer video......Still having trouble with the link from Growing Deer TV though. If anyone could link that one for me its the video under food plots called "Easy food plots and hunting strategies". I see the share link but it won't let me copy it for some reason. Must not be holding my mouth right.


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## Canuck5

For whatever reason, the "Growing DeerTv" links, sometimes crash a thread here, so they don't always work.


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## CNC

Canuck5 said:


> For whatever reason, the "Growing DeerTv" links, sometimes crash a thread here, so they don't always work.



Well dang....that's ok. Thanks anyways Canuck! I'll just direct folks to the site I guess.

I'd encourage anyone interested in this technique to check out the short video on Growing Deer TV where it shows them experimenting with this method as well. Look under their food plot videos and you'll see the throw n' roll method.


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## Canuck5

So, for BuckNasty83's situation above, I will just add a few more bits of information and see what you'd recommend.  His soil test says that he has a 5.3 ph and needs to add 4500 lbs of lime, which is to establish a perennial clover plot.  It also suggests he add lots of P&K, again, for perennial clover.

My suggestion would be to go ahead add the lime to the Georgia red clay, ASAP and work it in to the soil, along with the recommended fertilizer at planting, to get all that initially in the top 4-6" of soil.  After that's done and regular "maintenance" top dressing of lime and P&K will keep his clover going for a long time, without working up the soil again.

(BTW, you "Bama boys have to wait too long for your rut.  Ours is in early November  )


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## j_seph

Am I missing a step by step of what you are doing here sir?


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## CNC

Canuck5 said:


> So, for BuckNasty83's situation above, I will just add a few more bits of information and see what you'd recommend.  His soil test says that he has a 5.3 ph and needs to add 4500 lbs of lime, which is to establish a perennial clover plot.  It also suggests he add lots of P&K, again, for perennial clover.
> 
> My suggestion would be to go ahead add the lime to the Georgia red clay, ASAP and work it in to the soil, along with the recommended fertilizer at planting, to get all that initially in the top 4-6" of soil.  After that's done and regular "maintenance" top dressing of lime and P&K will keep his clover going for a long time, without working up the soil again.
> 
> (BTW, you "Bama boys have to wait too long for your rut.  Ours is in early November  )



I agree....yes, good catch. If you've been tilling in the past and are just getting going, then you might as well go ahead and work the lime and fert into your soil here in the beginning. Clay has its own challenges...crusting of the soil surface, compaction and impeding infilitration being a biggy. If you can ever get enough organic matter worked into your topsoil and improve tilth...then you'll be able to get by with top dressing in the future.


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## CNC

j_seph said:


> Am I missing a step by step of what you are doing here sir?



I had a video linked at the beginning of the thread showing a step by step but it got deleted cause I posted it the wrong way. It was the Growing Deer TV link I was trying to repost but can't get to work for some reason. There's not really much to it but I'll write out a step by step and post. Most people respond with...."Is it really that simple?....No that can't be right."


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## j_seph

CNC said:


> I had a video linked at the beginning of the thread showing a step by step but it got deleted cause I posted it the wrong way. It was the Growing Deer TV link I was trying to repost but can't get to work for some reason. There's not really much to it but I'll write out a step by step and post. Most people respond with...."Is it really that simple?....No that can't be right."


Look forward to reading it and thanks in advance.


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## CNC

j_seph said:


> Look forward to reading it and thanks in advance.



Like I was saying….there really isn’t much to the process. The more important thing is to start to understand the concepts and principle of no-till and how it effects soil health. The throw n’ mow method is very simple though……

You need some kind of standing biomass to use as hay or “thatch”. You can use just about anything from weeds to mature cereal grains. It just needs to make hay when cut and be enough of it to at least lightly cover your seed and the soil surface. You’re basically germinating seed in the same fashion as you would do a germ test in a wet paper towel. The hay over the seed creates very warm, moist, greenhouse like conditions which is very favorable for seed germination and establishment. After tilling is ceased, most people will also start building up a very rich organic layer of soil in the first 6-8 inches of topsoil. Once that happens and you combine that rich organic soil with the hay over the top of the seed….then you’re cooking with peanut oil. As this thread progresses we’ll talk more about how the biomass effects soil health as well and more of the specific details of what’s occurring.

Here’s my last year’s planting using just weeds, crabgrass, and a little bit of volunteer EW as thatch. I have already broadcasted my seed mix into the standing biomass….and now I’m just mowing it down over the top of the seeds.





With biomass that thick, you definitely want to make two passes to process it up and spread it evenly. Don’t leave it wind rowed and clumped up. You want it to be as if it were blown out of a hay blower. The foreground of this pic is after two passes….then behind it is after one pass…and finally in the back ground is what I was originally mowing down. You can see how much better the foreground is processed.





Finished product. If you go back to the very first post of this thread….those pics would be the next ones that would follow these in a time lapse.


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## CNC

Hey Canuck.....Are these pics too large? I noticed in the rules it said no pics over 1000X1000. I really have no clue what size mine are....I'm just reposting my old pics from photobucket. They've never showed up this big in the past.


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## Canuck5

They look good to me!!


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## jmharris23

Do you just add fertilizer after it comes up?


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## CNC

Canuck5 said:


> They look good to me!!



Good deal!



jmharris23 said:


> Do you just add fertilizer after it comes up?



I add fert at the same time I broadcast my seed.


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## jmharris23

CNC said:


> Good deal!
> 
> 
> 
> I add fert at the same time I broadcast my seed.



Thanks!


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## misterpink

What kind of seed mix are you guys using for fall?


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## Brad Rattlemin

Awesome thread!  Wish I knew about this last week. I would like to try this process, but last weekend we bush hogged and sprayed. Any suggestions where to go from here without tilling?  
Also, my ph level is 5.7.  Should I spread lime on top without tilling it in? 
Thanks in advance!


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## CNC

misterpink said:


> What kind of seed mix are you guys using for fall?



I use a base of 100 lbs/ac of cereal rye. From there you can go as simple or complicated as you want to. Some good additions to add to the mix are 10-12 lbs of a clover mix (durana, crimson, yuchi arrowleaf are good choices)....1-3 lbs of brassicas such as turnips, rape, or radishes......winter peas 10-20 lbs??? (I think that's the rate)....


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## CNC

Brad Rattlemin said:


> Awesome thread!  Wish I knew about this last week. I would like to try this process, but last weekend we bush hogged and sprayed. Any suggestions where to go from here without tilling?
> Also, my ph level is 5.7.  Should I spread lime on top without tilling it in?
> Thanks in advance!



There’s really no hard answers or one size fits all solutions to these questions due to the fact that everyone is dealing with a little different situation. It may even vary between each one of your individual plots you’re dealing with. You just have to understand the principles and concepts so that you can apply them to your own situation. For instance, if you’re starting off with some hard clay that’s crusted over on the surface, then broadcasting lime and fert without a little tillage in the beginning may not be something you want to do. Your nutrients are going to go where the water goes. If you have very poor infiltration, then that may mean in the ditch. I’ve got sand in my plots and after no-tilling now for a while, unless its just monsoonal rain….the water in my plot moves down. With that being the case, I don’t have any issues surface broadcasting my nutrients.

It's very likely that things are going to be less than ideal in the beginning for most folks who have been tilling for a long time. It will require that you assess the situation and make the best decisions for short term as well as long term goals. One of the big downfalls of tillage is how water flow is affected. Many fields suffer from severe run-off and erosion due to tillage practices. Reversing this process and keeping the water in our fields is a major foundation block of a no-till method. It begins with having biomass on the soil surface to dissipate the original energy contained in the rain drops as they fall from the sky as well as impeding water flow across the soil surface. Long term no-till practices infuse organic matter into the soil and open up pore spaces which then further allow the water to infiltrate into the ground. Understanding water flow is vital.


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## Brad Rattlemin

Thank you for your reply!  
My food plots are only two years old and have been disked once and tilled once over the past two years.  Run-off is not an issue, so I will plan on broadcasting my nutrients.

My concern is I will not have enough biomass to cover my see since I cut and sprayed last weekend.


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## CNC

Brad Rattlemin said:


> Thank you for your reply!
> My food plots are only two years old and have been disked once and tilled once over the past two years.  Run-off is not an issue, so I will plan on broadcasting my nutrients.
> 
> My concern is I will not have enough biomass to cover my see since I cut and sprayed last weekend.



You could always take some of the bite out of your disks and just use them to stir up the seed and hay on the surface instead of making them dig really hard. Cereal grains like rye and wheat don’t take deep plowing or pristine seed bed prep to germinate and grow. The only reason I would really worry about deep tillage is if you had some hard compacted clay that needed to be initially subsoiled to relieve the compaction issues.


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## Killdee

I found this method on the Qdma forum last year and told a buddy about it, he went head on into it and planted 6 plots by himself in about 6 hours. We had sprayed and mowed earlier and I was worried he didn't have enough mass to cover but his plots came out pretty dang good overall. He was pretty broke and didn't apply any fertilizer but did all right even so.  My only concern is lime. I have always understood that lime needed to be cut into the soil to really be effective and that makes sense to me since its limestone and not water soluble. I will likely use this method this coming season on at least 1 or 2 plots, this would sure save a bunch of time. Have any of you ever tried this on a plot never plowed or tilled before?


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## SAhunter

Cnc
I've been doing throw and mow for 5 years now. Works good since I don't have a rock rake to get up the grains and brassica after bush hogging. Last year planted clover with my method, it came up very thick. That methods holds lots of moisture so those that like planting early can benefit as long as there is some moisture. Make sure your soil is ph neutral before doing that method.


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## Bucaramus

CNC said:


> Like I was saying….there really isn’t much to the process. The more important thing is to start to understand the concepts and principle of no-till and how it effects soil health. The throw n’ mow method is very simple though……
> 
> You need some kind of standing biomass to use as hay or “thatch”. You can use just about anything from weeds to mature cereal grains. It just needs to make hay when cut and be enough of it to at least lightly cover your seed and the soil surface. You’re basically germinating seed in the same fashion as you would do a germ test in a wet paper towel. The hay over the seed creates very warm, moist, greenhouse like conditions which is very favorable for seed germination and establishment. After tilling is ceased, most people will also start building up a very rich organic layer of soil in the first 6-8 inches of topsoil. Once that happens and you combine that rich organic soil with the hay over the top of the seed….then you’re cooking with peanut oil. As this thread progresses we’ll talk more about how the biomass effects soil health as well and more of the specific details of what’s occurring.
> 
> Here’s my last year’s planting using just weeds, crabgrass, and a little bit of volunteer EW as thatch. I have already broadcasted my seed mix into the standing biomass….and now I’m just mowing it down over the top of the seeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With biomass that thick, you definitely want to make two passes to process it up and spread it evenly. Don’t leave it wind rowed and clumped up. You want it to be as if it were blown out of a hay blower. The foreground of this pic is after two passes….then behind it is after one pass…and finally in the back ground is what I was originally mowing down. You can see how much better the foreground is processed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finished product. If you go back to the very first post of this thread….those pics would be the next ones that would follow these in a time lapse.



In my area, I don't really have but a few loading docks that I can plant and these are pretty crusty and will have to be disced some. What I do have though, are some very long roads. I'm not sure what's growing in them now but when mowed they come back green and lush. I'm going to try this method on these roads and see if I can't at least get some forage in for the deer. Here is a pic of a couple of the roads I'm referring to.


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## CNC

Bucuramus......From the looks of your pics, you're thatch may be a little thin to be really successful using this method. You're probably just not getting enough sunlight down into that strip for really good growth. I by no means want to discourage you from giving the method  a try but if you get done and you can still easily see seed laying all over the soil surface....you may want to lightly cover it with some minimal tillage. Good luck!


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## shdw633

CNC said:


> Bucuramus......From the looks of your pics, you're thatch may be a little thin to be really successful using this method. You're probably just not getting enough sunlight down into that strip for really good growth. I by no means want to discourage you from giving the method  a try but if you get done and you can still easily see seed laying all over the soil surface....you may want to lightly cover it with some minimal tillage. Good luck!



It looks like he might have some thatch on that roadway, would it be beneficial to run a tractor rake through it to rough that thatch up a little before planting and then cutting again?  I have similar situation in pine rows and cut it about 2 weeks ago but didn't spray, now I am wondering if I should just run the rake to break up the thatch a little, lime and seed and then cut it again in about 2 weeks time and fertilize?


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## CNC

shdw633 said:


> It looks like he might have some thatch on that roadway, would it be beneficial to run a tractor rake through it to rough that thatch up a little before planting and then cutting again?  I have similar situation in pine rows and cut it about 2 weeks ago but didn't spray, now I am wondering if I should just run the rake to break up the thatch a little, lime and seed and then cut it again in about 2 weeks time and fertilize?



I've never used a rake before but it sounds like it would work. If you can get the seed down the soil and cover it with hay then it'll sprout. The problem with thin thatch is that it'll deceive you on how much you really have. It's kind of like cooking bacon and ending up with half of what you started with. After you cut your standing biomass and it starts drying out....thin thatch can turn to nothing quickly. As a rule of thumb, I like to see folks have something to mow that's at least around knee high and reasonably dense.


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## chrismhaase

Great read so far.  I follow Growing Deer TV and he seems to always have great plots and the method in my mind makes sense.  In a backyard plot, I recently skid steered all the privet out, got a soil sample and about to add lime.  After disking it all in, adding seed would you suggest throwing a cover over it like hay?  Thinking it may get the process started on bare ground.  What is your thought?


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## CNC

chrismhaase said:


> Great read so far.  I follow Growing Deer TV and he seems to always have great plots and the method in my mind makes sense.  In a backyard plot, I recently skid steered all the privet out, got a soil sample and about to add lime.  After risking it all in, adding seed would you suggest throwing a cover over it like hay?  Thinking it may get the process started on bare ground.  What is your thought?



Heck yeah. As long as it's a small enough plot to be able to reasonably hand spread hay on.....if you could find someone with an old round bale of hay they would give you, then covering the bare soil would definitely be a plus. It'll help to hold moisture as well as help prevent erosion and nutrient loss. It's not a "have to do" kind of thing though if it means spending a lot of extra $$$ to do it.


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## Bucaramus

shdw633 said:


> It looks like he might have some thatch on that roadway, would it be beneficial to run a tractor rake through it to rough that thatch up a little before planting and then cutting again?  I have similar situation in pine rows and cut it about 2 weeks ago but didn't spray, now I am wondering if I should just run the rake to break up the thatch a little, lime and seed and then cut it again in about 2 weeks time and fertilize?



I've mowed my roads 3 times this summer. I wish I would have seen this first and I would've left it alone. It was pretty tall at the first mowing. I'll know a little better next year. We plan to prune the pines along the roads to let some more sunlight in. On another note, what's the best idea on a fresh clearcut area? Hasn't been sprayed or replanted yet but the stumps from the trees they cut are everywhere!


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## spydermon

how would this work with oats?  most folks are planting the 3/5 way seed mixtures these days and I was curious how this method would work with that


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## CNC

Bucaramus said:


> I've mowed my roads 3 times this summer. I wish I would have seen this first and I would've left it alone. It was pretty tall at the first mowing. I'll know a little better next year. We plan to prune the pines along the roads to let some more sunlight in. On another note, what's the best idea on a fresh clearcut area? Hasn't been sprayed or replanted yet but the stumps from the trees they cut are everywhere!



You'll just have to do the best you can with a situation like that until the stumps rot. Maybe spray and then broadcast just some cereal rye just before a rain if you can't mow.


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## CNC

spydermon said:


> how would this work with oats?  most folks are planting the 3/5 way seed mixtures these days and I was curious how this method would work with that



Oats aren't going to be the best option for someone just switching over to a method such as this, but once you get the soil surface in better condition then bigger seeds like oats will do better. I'd probably stick with wheat or cereal rye in the beginning if you have the choice.


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## elfiii

Is there such a thing as a roller/cutter for smaller Cat 1 tractors? Everything I found on the web is for large farming operations. I have a New Holland TC35D.


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## Canuck5

elfiii said:


> Is there such a thing as a roller/cutter for smaller Cat 1 tractors? Everything I found on the web is for large farming operations. I have a New Holland TC35D.



Here's the plans, now just sweet talk T.P. into shrinking a version down for you.  

http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/organic-no-till/no-till-rollercrimper-plans/

I'm probably wrong, but I had been told that they will make one for you in whatever size you want.

http://www.croproller.com/


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## nrh0011

It's basically the same principle as applying lime & fert to a hay field, and overseeding it with a broadcast method. At least in my eyes anyways, I've got a spot I want to try it this year. 

Best thing about this method is that it should cut down on costs & time per plot. Now if I had a no till drill we really would be cooking with peanut oil.


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> Here's the plans, now just sweet talk T.P. into shrinking a version down for you.
> 
> http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/organic-no-till/no-till-rollercrimper-plans/
> 
> I'm probably wrong, but I had been told that they will make one for you in whatever size you want.
> 
> http://www.croproller.com/



Thanks Canuck. Croproller sure is proud of their products.


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## Canuck5

elfiii said:


> Thanks Canuck. Croproller sure is proud of their products.



Yes they are!  However, a 5 foot, $110 weed wiper (50% glyphosate and 50% water) from AgriSupply mounted to the front of your tractor (or 4 wheeler) and a simple roller or cultipacker pulled behind, will accomplish the same thing.  Weeds will roll over and die.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wee...X&ved=0ahUKEwi2g9Of-sjOAhVLQCYKHUxOAbUQsAQIXg


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## Luke0927

I have to catch up on all the postings but I watched all the videos on youtube over the last couple of nights (Ray Archuleta and David Brandt) this is something I have been wanting to lookin into for a long time.

I have a couple of garden spots at the house I have wanted to direct plant into cover crops for a while, but I also till them and broad cast buckwheat and sunflowers for, honeybees,dove and wives pictures.

Then I have a couple acres of old fields that were farmed or gardened that stay tilled or overgrown in weeds due to to large of a space to garden or not enough time so a mixed cover crop would be a good option as well.

I have a soil pulverizer that with the front teeth out of you could just use the roller and I think that would work.  But when everything else you have is for turning dirt or plowing rows planting no till starts to get tricky, for larger gardens.  I have a couple of fast hitch planters (single row) for my Super A.  one of those could possible be converted to a no till planter?


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## misterpink

elfiii said:


> Is there such a thing as a roller/cutter for smaller Cat 1 tractors? Everything I found on the web is for large farming operations. I have a New Holland TC35D.



I've been looking at the concrete form tubes at home depot.  Fill it up with conrete and set a piece of conduit on each side and let it dry.  Looks like you should be able to improvise a good roller for less than $50.  One of the videos show a guy using the front bumper on his car to mash everything down.  I'm getting the idea that it doesn't have to be super precision work.  Kill it, spread seed then mow it and/or smooth it.  I'm pumped up to give it a try.


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## donj

Been thinking on trying the "throw and grow" method this year. Have you any ideas of mixing in soybeans with the wheat and rye???


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## CNC

donj said:


> Been thinking on trying the "throw and grow" method this year. Have you any ideas of mixing in soybeans with the wheat and rye???



Never tried soybeans but cowpeas do real well if cover them with enough thatch.


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## Killdee

Bump where I can find it....


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## Killdee

I want to try the throw and mow on this section of old pasture. Is there enough stuff here to cover and work without disking up?


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## Killdee

Another view


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## Forest Grump

Killdee said:


> I want to try the throw and mow on this section of old pasture. Is there enough stuff here to cover and work without disking up?



Long as you stick with small seeds & get a good rain it ought to do fine, I think. You might have compaction or pH issues though on old fallowed pasture land.


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## Killdee

Yeah, I'm just trying to get out of work...... I may try it anyway, I just decided to plant up here yesterday,may not have enough time to spray and tear it up. My other established plots had  so little growing in them I went ahead and disked em up yesterday. They turned up better than I thought, soil is dry deeper than I ever seen.


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## Broken Arrow 68

What are all the good options for this method for spring plots?


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## Forest Grump

Broken Arrow 68 said:


> What are all the good options for this method for spring plots?



If by spring you mean summer/warm-season crops, you would get the best results with iron-clay cowpeas, provided you get a good fine shred on your material, & get it very evenly distributed into a homogenous layer that basically mimics covering it lightly with soil. Then you'll need a good, soaking rain soon after. ICP's will come up in your truckbed as soon as it rains. But if they sit too long, the same decay organisms that break down your residues will go to work on the peas. Milo should work as well, if you like planting sorghum or want a rotation crop. Soil surface temps need to be at least 65 F & you will need regular rain to get it going. When I was a kid, April showers brought May flowers, but nowadays it is common to have a drought in April. 

You can roll down rye or other cereals, but then you really need to drill through that in the same direction for crops like beans, sunflowers, corn, etc... Sunn hemp generally needs to be planted very shallowly, which might lend to this method, except it will not emerge well if it has to struggle to do so. When I have tried planting it where I had crop or weed debris it did not do well like on bare, sandy soil. 

Even distribution of the vegetative cover would be key, as the hot summer weather will rapidly dessicate the clippings & leave space between for the soil to dry out. If it's wind-rowed, you will have thin spots & strips too thick to get a crop going. Radishes will grow in summer, but are not as palatable then as in cool season (but I have had deer feed on volunteer ones in summer).


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## Broken Arrow 68

Forest Grump said:


> If by spring you mean summer/warm-season crops, you would get the best results with iron-clay cowpeas, provided you get a good fine shred on your material, & get it very evenly distributed into a homogenous layer that basically mimics covering it lightly with soil. Then you'll need a good, soaking rain soon after. ICP's will come up in your truckbed as soon as it rains. But if they sit too long, the same decay organisms that break down your residues will go to work on the peas. Milo should work as well, if you like planting sorghum or want a rotation crop. Soil surface temps need to be at least 65 F & you will need regular rain to get it going. When I was a kid, April showers brought May flowers, but nowadays it is common to have a drought in April.
> 
> You can roll down rye or other cereals, but then you really need to drill through that in the same direction for crops like beans, sunflowers, corn, etc... Sunn hemp generally needs to be planted very shallowly, which might lend to this method, except it will not emerge well if it has to struggle to do so. When I have tried planting it where I had crop or weed debris it did not do well like on bare, sandy soil.
> 
> Even distribution of the vegetative cover would be key, as the hot summer weather will rapidly dessicate the clippings & leave space between for the soil to dry out. If it's wind-rowed, you will have thin spots & strips too thick to get a crop going. Radishes will grow in summer, but are not as palatable then as in cool season (but I have had deer feed on volunteer ones in summer).



thanks.  Yes, I will try IC peas with this method.  I had pretty good luck doing throw and mow in fall with radishes so I wanted to try something early season.  This might be the ticket.  Thanks!


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## Gaswamp

tag


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## elfiii

It's a shame Photobucket hosed everybody. Those were some great videos.


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## Gaswamp

tag


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