# question for military vets



## 2789britt (Nov 14, 2011)

there was a boy staying in our house for over a year. he only worked about 3 months out of that year. his dad just got out of prision. he signed up for the air force and shipped off last tuesday for basic. well we got a call last night from him he was wanting to guit after only half a week. am i wrong in thing that he is a coward. he signed a six year contract. we told him it would be tough for the eight weeks of basic training. he didi not listen. he always had everything given to him up to today when he  went in he is twenty one. am i wrong in thing ing he is afraid of going from a twenty one year old boy to becoming a man . i thing so  but my wife doesn't. am i wrong in looking down on him. i feel i am not . please express yalls views


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## 2789britt (Nov 14, 2011)

hello


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## KDarsey (Nov 14, 2011)

Can't speak for all but I do know there are a lot of lazy people out there....young & old.
  A very good friend of mine has a daughter that is smart, pretty and should have the world by the tail. She is one of the laziest,rudest most disrespectful people you will ever meet. She was not raised that way.
  She sleeps all day and can't keep a job & is on the verge of flunking out of college...all because she is lazy.
  She was spoiled all her life so I am sure she still expects her Silver Platter each morning (or whenever she decides to arise).


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## JustUs4All (Nov 14, 2011)

Looking down on him and letting him know that would not help him at this point.  The best thing you can do for him would be to encourage him to stay with it.  From what you have described, he is in the middle of the biggest change he will ever see in his life.  I have no doubt that he is terrified.  No one wants to admit it, but most enter boot camp with some level apprehension.  I sure did.  

If he can stick with it for two months it could be the best thing that ever happened to him.   When he is graduated and looking at boot camp from the other side, he will see the experience in an entirely different light.  Offer him all the encouragement you can.  At this point this may be his best shot at a good life.


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## 2789britt (Nov 14, 2011)

yes but we are trying to  encourge him. but he has already said to the drill instructors that he has use dthe new stress card they issue every new recurit. he also said he was talking to them to day on how to get out asap. i know he is scared but even my brother in law whicjh has been in the airforce for 23 years told him after the eight weeks of basic it is a breeze. i think like you he is scared


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## DYI hunting (Nov 14, 2011)

I was married at 16 and living out on my own at 17 as a new daddy and making a living.  I busted my tail and finished high school, went to college and worked a regular job.  I considered myself a man at the time but little did I know I wasn't up to par.  I joined the Army (active duty) right after I turned 19 and frankly I was ready to quit after the first couple days of basic (OSUT).  Everyone was.  All the yelling and cussing, getting smoked beyond what you think your body can endure, the sand pit, only a couple hours of sleep a night, nothing familiar, no contact with home.  It was rough.  But after maybe a week the shock had started to wear off and most of us were okay.  It still sucked beyond anything I would have ever imagined, but we weren't trying to figure how hard it would be to jump on the train we heard each night going by Ft. Sill.  They break you down hard in the beginning, or at least did in Army OSUT back early 90's when I went through.  

Give him another week, he should be fine.  You can start to get concerned after 2 or 3 weeks and he calls home wanting to quit.  We had 3 guys wanting to quit the entire 14 weeks.  Two were recycled and the other finally barely graduated.


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## madpegtod (Nov 14, 2011)

I left for Navy boot camp right out of high school. I remember thinking on that first morning, "What have I gotten myself into?!?" It is a major change in life. One thing that he will learn from boot camp is how valuable freedom is. He will probably be okay once he gets used to the routine. I would advise him to just look and laugh at what all is going on around him. My grandfather warned me about all the "seemingly" crazy stuff that would happen.  That is what helped get me through boot camp.


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## Bobby Lee Swagger (Nov 14, 2011)

I was more bored in boot camp than anything else. 

Also, I wasn't aware of the quit option.


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## 2789britt (Nov 14, 2011)

yes he has always taken the easy road out of sports and such  all his life and his family let him . may be he will grow up and be a man and not a quitter.


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## Chris Horsman (Nov 14, 2011)

I joined the British Navy at 16 and thought my world had ended. When I called my Dad to come get me he basically said he`d come get me next week. Well after 8 next weeks I went onto trade school, special forces and 10 of the best years of my life. Yeah it sucks but if you give him an out now he`ll take them his entire life. The hardest thing I`m gonna hear is one of my kids wanting out and I ain`t going for them


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## 7Mag Hunter (Nov 14, 2011)

When I was drafted in 1968, there was NO OPTION to call it
quits and go home to momma !!!!!!
The US Army was preparing us for a vacation spot called Viet nam
so we learned to listen and follow the rules...Sounds like this kid
need a lesson in the real world...

we learned to suck it up and do our jobs.....Tell him if he quits
he cannot come back.....

Time to Man Up !!!!


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## germag (Nov 14, 2011)

I didn't know you could quit. When I was in you sure couldn't.


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## FX Jenkins (Nov 14, 2011)

Heres the thing...I imagine the boy has never had to finish anything difficult that he started before and never had anyone there to teach him how too.   I remember THE Defining moment in my life where at the age of 12, I wanted to back out of showing an animal in 4H...all the other contestants showed up with their fancy jackets, color coordinated leashes, clean and freshly shorn yews, and I looked like I just stepped off the Clampit farm, holes in my bluejeans, and a yew that was just as nervous as I was.   I couldn't get her to budge and I could feel everyones eyes on me as I so wanted to back out of that gate but my step dad said nope, "Its time to finish what you started" as he reached down and grabbed that sheep's tail and off we went.  From then on, I always knew I had to finish what I started, and knew that I could, and that carried over when I went to Basic, did my sworn duty, and later finished my 8 year commitment.  

Kids today just don't learn that lesson very often.  If soccer isn't working out, the parents take them out half way through the season.  

If you do get to talk to the boy before the matters settled, just tell him, I'd be proud of you if you finish what you started, just hang in there, it gets easier and it will all be worth it, I promise!"


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## DYI hunting (Nov 14, 2011)

2789britt said:


> but he has already said to the drill instructors that he has use dthe new stress card they issue every new recurit. he also said he was talking to them to day on how to get out asap.



Wait, he got a stress card?  I thought that was a myth.  Even the guy that was on suicide watch never got a stress card or break.


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## brown518 (Nov 14, 2011)

I felt the same way when I got off of the plane in San Diego for boot camp. Had one of those Forrest Gump/drill sargent moments

I would encourage him, but he definitely needs to "man up". I tell my kids all of the time that "There is no privilege without responsibility". He needs to understand that the world is not entitled to him.







madpegtod said:


> I left for Navy boot camp right out of high school. I remember thinking on that first morning, "What have I gotten myself into?!?" It is a major change in life. One thing that he will learn from boot camp is how valuable freedom is. He will probably be okay once he gets used to the routine. I would advise him to just look and laugh at what all is going on around him. My grandfather warned me about all the "seemingly" crazy stuff that would happen.  That is what helped get me through boot camp.


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## BigJay (Nov 14, 2011)

2789,
Just for the records: I am a 16 year Air Force Member.  I have deployed 4 times, been stationed away from home my whole career, and like many, I enjoy my life in the military.  

As for the 21 year old, How does he feel about his real father?  Relate it to this experience. If he doesn't care for his father because he was in prison, tell him that this is his chance to make sure that he doesn't share the same fate.  Let him know that he holds the keys to his future, and if he doesn't stick with this, he will be throwing his chance at a future away.   The Air Force structure works for some and not for others, but you have to try to succeed. If he doesn't make this choice, than the system will sort him out.  That is what it is there for.  Let him know that you will be there to support him, but that it is time for him to stand up and help with the support.  He was given two legs for a reason, force him to stand up on them.  You have done your part, now it is HIS turn. If he can't stand up by himself than the AF will wash him out and force him to be supported by someone else who is willing, either you or him.  

Just remember: As a parent/guardian, it is not wrong to make someone stand up on their own; However, it is wrong for you to not give them the chance.   

Good Luck and tell him that it will get better if he puts forth the effort.. I can guarantee you..

BigJay


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## watermedic (Nov 14, 2011)

When he finally realizes that it is just a game that they play and learns the rules, he will be fine. Try sending him a care package. That may help his morale. Right now they are mentally breaking him down. It is the way the game starts. The more he bucks the system, the worse it will get.


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## USMCBowman (Nov 14, 2011)

Sounds like he is a habitual quitter.  If he quits this as well his future options will be limited significantly.  Like most, I wanted to quit as well (or at least I thought I did), but even as a barely 17 year old I couldn't have forgiven myself if I did.  After 22 years and some change in the Corps I couldn't imagine a more satisfying (fun) way to spend my early years.  Tell him to give it a chance....it will get better....it is the AF for pete's sake ;>)


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## Mark K (Nov 14, 2011)

Is he a coward? No. Is he experiencing stress?? YES! It's all a game, just learn the rules and play the game!! At 21 he's not going to get alot of sympathy from many men. Let him know that if he quits he has no where else to go!! Our future doesn't look bright if this is what's coming up to fill our shoes!!


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## jmfauver (Nov 14, 2011)

Alot has changed since some of us were in the service.I work with every branch in the Military and many of our Allies...The things I have seen!!!!

I would be really polite and ask him where he is going to live if he quits...


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## Ruger#3 (Nov 14, 2011)

For the pampered everything handed to them generation I'm sure boot is a wakeup call. I thought the whole boot camp deal was pretty hokey for a while. One day we are marching across base and a flight of T-38s went over. The instructor stopped had us look up and see how close the planes were. All this precision and attention to detail is so you can contribute to that. I watched them turn and climb in close formation. That was my moment, I knuckled down and started taking things more serious. We dropped a few  for one reason or another when I went through. Encourage him, I hope he has his moment and comes around.


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## common man (Nov 14, 2011)

IT is just the stress just keep on encouraging, everyone thinks like that at one point or another during basic. Just remind him it is a mind game. Be a fly on the wall and do what they say and it will all be over soon.


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## plottman25 (Nov 14, 2011)

Are you prior Military?  If not i dont think I would be calling anyone a coward.


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## WTM45 (Nov 14, 2011)

Well, to be completely honest, the demands of the military means there are simply some folks who just can not make the cut mentally or physically.
That has to be understood.

But tell him this... when he knuckles down and does make the cut, there is no greater pride of accomplishment and self respect that can be found anywhere in the world.  The brotherhood of armed service offers it abundantly.  It lasts for a lifetime!
It comes with a price.  It ain't easy.  But rarely does something so good come without hard work and dedication.


He needs mail incoming, and feedback on how proud his family/friends are of his accepting the challenge and working towards a goal.


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## Mario7979 (Nov 14, 2011)

I joined the Army in Jun of 1976....Spent 15  1/2 years in and got out....Never heard of the stress card or option of getting out....The Army has changed since I got out in  Feb 1992....Let him man up and be on his own....Then 3 years National Guard.....


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## Coastie (Nov 14, 2011)

2789britt said:


> there was a boy staying in our house for over a year. he only worked about 3 months out of that year. his dad just got out of prision. he signed up for the air force and shipped off last tuesday for basic. well we got a call last night from him he was wanting to guit after only half a week. am i wrong in thing that he is a coward. he signed a six year contract. we told him it would be tough for the eight weeks of basic training. he didi not listen. he always had everything given to him up to today when he  went in he is twenty one. am i wrong in thing ing he is afraid of going from a twenty one year old boy to becoming a man . i thing so  but my wife doesn't. am i wrong in looking down on him. i feel i am not . please express yalls views



Now is not the time to look down on him, that might happen if he quits, but not now. A lot of kids find out for the first time in their lives that they are not the center of the universe and that there are people that can make them do things they don't want to do. The military has changed a lot in the 40+ years since I enlisted, but even now you cannot just quit because you are homesick or find it too hard. And he will need some support, you telling him how little you think of him is not the way to go, encourage him in whatever way you can and get him to do his best to succede.


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## dog1 (Nov 14, 2011)

*vets*

I retired from the USAF in 1987 and was a recruiter, I've heard that story from recruits thousands of times of 15 years of recruiting.  Like most have said, encourage him to hang in there.

I must admit, when I retired, Air Force Basic Training was only 6 weeks long, didn't know it went to 8 weeks.  I joined in 1967 (44 yrs ago) and stayed to retire, but I can remember thinking that first night of basic, "My God what have I got myself into".  Well again, what others have said, it gets easier everyday.  However, over the years of recruiting, some are coming home regardless of what you tell them.  I could tell hundreds of stories and reasons they gave for quiting.  Personally, I didn't agree with the AF for leting them quit, but I was always told, it's cheaper to let them go than  spend all the money to train them.  

When I recruited someone, most times I talked with their parents and let them know that their son/daughter was going to call home crying and wanting out.  I encouraged the parents to encourage them to hang in there.  Sometimes I wonder how many I recruited over 15 years as a recruiter out of 20 plus years in the AF stayed and how many quit.  In the AF during my time, when you finished basic training, you went onto a AF VoTech school to learn the job you was put into, (mostly your choice), which could be used to get a job when you got out, so that is a point you need encourage him to stay with it.

Not much more I can say that others haven't already said.

Good luck with him,
dog1


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## Son (Nov 14, 2011)

It's the times, and generation. Thankfully it's not affected all of em. I joined in 1960, and saw some "Momma's babies" back then too. But not many. Some people have the personal fortitude to man up and go for the goal. Some are quitters, followers, whimps etc..
At 21, he should already have some fortitude. Our welfare country is recruiting em by the thousands. He's a baby in my opinion.


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## holton27596 (Nov 14, 2011)

Tell him he is welcome to quit, but he aint coming back home to live with/off you!! He's grown, make a mans choices, live a mans life. tell wife no way he's coming back to sponge. souinds like thats what he has been doing.


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## cathooker (Nov 14, 2011)

It's been said that he is "under stress". I turned 21 with a M60 machine gun between my legs hanging out of a door of an Army helicopter in Vietnam. Now THAT is stress. If he cannot withstand the small amount of stress of basic training then there is no way he can endure the stress of a combat zone. I have NO pity for the kid. Time for him to man up. 
A few months back I was a part of a funeral escort for a 19 year old kid that was killed in combat in Afghanistan. He couldn't stop in mid combat and hold up a @#*N stress card........


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## germag (Nov 14, 2011)

plottman25 said:


> Are you prior Military?  If not i dont think I would be calling anyone a coward.



Who are you talking to? For the life of me I can't find where anyone called him a coward. In fact, everyone suggested offfering him encouragement to hang in.


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## acurasquirrel (Nov 14, 2011)

I cant speak for Air Force boot camp, but Navy boot camp was one of the easiest times Ive had in the Navy.  I actually got 8 hours of sleep a day and had no real responsibility.  Other than the mind games and boredom its really not bad. 
Personally if he cant handle it now, he should just give up and get out.  Save his future superiors the time and effort.  There is nothing worse as a supervisor than having a lazy subordinate, especially in the military.  Getting rid of someone is hours upon hours of work, and when you are working 80+ hours a week you just dont have the time.  
Im not saying he is hopeless, but he needs to decide real quick if he is gonna buckle down and be an asset to the Air Force.
Sorry if I sound callous, but I've dealt with these lazy new guys for a while now, and Id rather see them quit in boot camp than when they actually are needed, remember unlike most jobs someone will count on you to stay alive.


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## Coastie (Nov 15, 2011)

germag said:


> Who are you talking to? For the life of me I can't find where anyone called him a coward. In fact, everyone suggested offfering him encouragement to hang in.



See the original post.


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## smitty (Nov 15, 2011)

He will either man up or get tossed!!When I went to Ft Benning school for wayward boys I had no place to return to so I had to endure the suck and make it ..That I did,had plenty of people drop out,and go awol this is on him,,basic in the AirForce was like the reception station at Ft Jackson easy money..


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## pstrahin (Nov 15, 2011)

In my opinion, you need to do everything that you can to encourage him to tough it out.  I was in the Air Force.  AF Basic Training is a walk in the park.  Once you are out of basic and get to tech school and begin training in your career field, it becomes a little easier.  Once you get to your duty station it becomes even easier.  I would do it all over again.  Not to mention, he signed a government contract.  He cannot just walk away without longlasting consequences that can haunt him in his professional career.


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## germag (Nov 15, 2011)

Coastie said:


> See the original post.



Oh...that. He didn't actually call the guy a coward as I read it, he asked if he was wrong in thinking that. I can see where he's coming from....given the guy's history and dealing with this frustration from him could start to slant your thinking in that direction. I don't think it's the right conclusion at this early juncture....but I think that's why he's reaching out for advice. This kind of thing can leave you pretty conflicted......


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## Coastie (Nov 15, 2011)

germag said:


> Oh...that. He didn't actually call the guy a coward as I read it, he asked if he was wrong in thinking that. I can see where he's coming from....given the guy's history and dealing with this frustration from him could start to slant your thinking in that direction. I don't think it's the right conclusion at this early juncture....but I think that's why he's reaching out for advice. This kind of thing can leave you pretty conflicted......



You're probably correct, I remember too many guys in boot camp that had a heck of a time adjusting some for one reason, some for another, most of them ended up doing fine. One guy took six months to finish boot camp and he was gungho from the start, finally made it through and was assigned to one of the old "White Ones" on ocean station duty in the north Atlantic. He was so severely seasick that they discharged him for the convenience of the government.


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## USMC0321 (Nov 15, 2011)

He can't pass AirForce boot camp?  He would not make it one day in the Marines.  Failure to Adapt, he will get discharged.


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## USMC0844 (Nov 15, 2011)

All he needs is the continuous encouragement until the culture shock wears off. As USMC0321 said, he can get discharged for failure to adapt. Next time you talk to him tell him he made the decision and he made the committment and he needs to be a grown man and follow through with his committments. If he refuses to complete his training then he needs to know there will be consequences......threaten that if he quits, then he will have to find his own place and get a job all on his own. He will not like the starting salary of a 21yo inexperienced male in the civilian life.


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## stick_slinger (Nov 15, 2011)

I am in the Army, just got back from a 12 month deployment from Afganistan.. I also didnt know these stress cards were real, I just thought they were a myth that everybody talked about.. Anyways, he is feeling what most feel when they enter boot camp.. It isnt a pleasant place to be at all.. And most when they get there dont wanna be there, can you really blame them. It sucks lol..
But once his 8 weeks or whatever is over he will be ok.. As soon as i got off the bus and started getting yelled at and told to walk faster everywhere, eat faster,hurry up you.. I was just thinking to myself, what is all this. I did not want to be there at all, i just wanted to come home.. But once i got past that 9 weeks i was ok.. 

I am sure him and 90 percent of the other recruits dont wanna be there. But if he sees it through, he will be a completely different person.. With as much :nono::nono: the Military comes with, I can say it will make a person do 180 from their ways before the military.. It will turn a boy to a Man for sure..

CJ


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## Throwback (Nov 15, 2011)

usmc0321 said:


> he can't pass airforce boot camp?  He would not make it one day in the marines.  Failure to adapt, he will get discharged.





t


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## bjorns4 (Feb 28, 2012)

Boot camp has changed a lot since when I went through. I was not aware that you could quit, and I broke my hand so I was sidelined for a couple of weeks. Still I made it through Marine corps boot camp with it broken. Once you realize that it is all a game, it is down hill. Throughout life I look  back on what I went through and think how easy it is. Having said that bootcamp was easy compared to when I got to the fleet in the infantry. That was far worse than my deployments to war. Don't let him quit, if he does, let him go and grow up on his own. At some point you have to become a man and its the air force for crying out loud how hard could it be.


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## Dutch (Feb 28, 2012)

Stress Cards?!? 

You have to be kidding me, there was no stress cards in June of '87 at the Benning School for Wayward Boys. 

There was no quitting either, but even then we had several non-hackers that sucked so bad at life that they tried to "kill" themselves to get out...one tried to overdose on aspirin.

Tell him to check his sack to make sure he has a pair then suck it up and drive on and complete boot camp. 

Jeez, its Air Force boot camp at that.


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## jwb72 (Mar 2, 2012)

So, how's he doing? Did he make it through it?


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## copecowboy84 (Mar 4, 2012)

I have been in for 8 1/2 years with 2 combat tours. I am not gonna lie, i wanted to quit when i went through basic. But after we finally got a phone call home and talked to the folks, i stuck with it. Now i am a SGT in the U S Army, been apart of special ops in the army, and am still serving. just encourage him and let him know he is not going through anything that others have not been through.


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## georgia_home (Mar 5, 2012)

2789britt,

Just curious, as this thread is almost 4 months old, how did it work out for this guy? if stayed, he should be finished or nearly.

can you update?


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## wildman0517 (Mar 6, 2012)

X2 this is one old post


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## R1150R (Mar 7, 2012)

Parris Is. in 1969 would make this kid appreciate the USAF.


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## runandgun (Apr 4, 2012)

DYI hunting said:


> Wait, he got a stress card?  I thought that was a myth.  Even the guy that was on suicide watch never got a stress card or break.



The stress card is a myth. I have been in the USAF for 17yrs--4 yrs as an MTI (drill instructor). The stress cards have never existed. Furthermore, he can't just "quit". I had several trainees each cycle wanting to quit, but on graduation day, they couldn't be more proud to be an Airman. Just tell him to hang in there, and it only get easier.


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## Throwback (Apr 5, 2012)

well?

T


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## Lukikus2 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yes. You can quit. I know someone personally who did. 

The only problem is you are discharged, not just quit. It stays on your record FOREVER. Every employer you try to apply for a job with will see it on your record. Not something I would want hanging over my head for the rest of my life.



> Other Than Honorable Conditions Discharge
> 
> The most severe type of military administrative discharge is the Other Than Honorable Conditions.  Some examples of actions that could lead to an Other Than Honorable Discharge include security violations,  use of violence, conviction by a civilian court with a sentence including prison time, or being found guilty of adultery in a divorce hearing (this list is not a definitive list; these are only examples).  In most cases, veterans who receive an Other Than Honorable Discharge cannot re-enlist in the Armed Forces or reserves, except under very rare circumstances.  Veteran’s benefits are not usually available to those discharged through this type of discharge.


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## hogman1 (Apr 6, 2012)

I didnt know there was a quit option. Believe me, I got close to 7 years, 2 combat tours, and a squad full of dumb arses. who id kill for by the way, and sometimes I would love to just hang up my acu's and truck it back to Ohio. Basic Training is supposed to be hard....its BASIC TRAINING. Either way I just realized this was a really old post.....what was the outcome?


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## joedublin (Apr 6, 2012)

When I was in ...in the 50's and the cadre had all come back from Korea the "stress relief" we would have gotten would have been a boot in the rear end...there was no "get out free" card...you either made it OR you started all over again...great lesson for life.


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## Mako22 (Apr 6, 2012)

After my first week at Paris Island I wrote my Mom a letter and told her I made a big mistake and should have joined the Air Force instead.


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## Highintheshoulder (Apr 6, 2012)

Stress Card !!!! WTH ? Its a good thing he didn't go to Paris Island. I know people that quit 3 days in to boot camp. They were still trying to get out when we Graduated. Im sorry but he's just a Quitter.


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## scottja (Apr 9, 2012)

Not true. Getting out for most reasons during basic results in an "entry level discharge" which does not carry any negative connotation on paper and is not a punitive discharge. "Failure to adapt" does not result in a less than honorable 99.9% of the time either. An OTH discharge, which you listed here, is much harder to come by than you are insinuating. 

Unrelated to the quoted post, stress cards are an urban legend based on a pilot program from (IIRC) the 80's. They may have popped back up in the USAF, but more than likely the DS/DI is messing with the recruit and telling them they can call a stress card when the real result is just that they will get smoked. 





Lukikus2 said:


> Yes. You can quit. I know someone personally who did.
> 
> The only problem is you are discharged, not just quit. It stays on your record FOREVER. Every employer you try to apply for a job with will see it on your record. Not something I would want hanging over my head for the rest of my life.


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## John I. Shore (Apr 9, 2012)

2789Britt;  Comes a point in every man's life where they have to deal with life and the results of the choices that they have made.  He stood up and took the oath on his own free will and now is facing the consequences of his actions.  With choice comes consequence, thus the situation this young man finds himself in now.  

No need to look down on the young man, just tell him that the time has come to "man up".  

You can't do it for him, he has to stand for himself.  At this point in time I would tell him that I support him in his decisions, but future decisions will set new consequences into place.   Hope for his sake that he makes it.

John I.


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## Son (Apr 12, 2012)

I remember when I joined the Navy. If you wimped out, they didn't send ya home. You went to the goon squad and marched around with your clothes on wrong side out, hat inside out and sang the micky mouse song as they marched. Didn't take long before most of em decideded to change for the better. Those who didn't, we didn't hear from them anymore. A person that can't take the Military boot camp, any branch, surely will never be able to handle the stress of civilian life either.


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