# Jeep People



## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 13, 2021)

It’s absolutely criminal what these people are doing to our FS roads.


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## porter62 (Jun 13, 2021)

Yes and nothing is done about it.


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## GeorgiaGlockMan (Jun 13, 2021)

It's not just the jeep people out there.

I'd argue as a whole Jeepers tread more lightly than "others".


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jun 13, 2021)

GeorgiaGlockMan said:


> It's not just the jeep people out there.
> 
> I'd argue as a whole Jeepers tread more lightly than "others".


Depends on what "others" you're talking about.  Rock crawlers?  Absolutely.   Hunters and fishermen?  Not so much.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 13, 2021)

GeorgiaGlockMan said:


> It's not just the jeep people out there.
> 
> I'd argue as a whole Jeepers tread more lightly than "others".



No


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## earlthegoat2 (Jun 13, 2021)

If by ”Jeep” you mean a 4x4 vehicle that tears through FS roads then yeah.
I used to that at a WMA up in MI when I was in my teens.  I was in my Dad’s FJ 40 Land Cruiser (way before they got mucho expensive) so nobody could call me a rat Jeep person. Haha.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 13, 2021)

I refer to anyone who is just driving rough roads for the purpose of driving rough roads. Incidentally, it’s apparently much more fun if you drive through the roughest places over and over again. And the real fun is when you try to get over FS berms and see how far you can get.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

i totally agree being a jeep owner myself... they should also stop all the bear and deer hunting, you dont know how many empty bags from baiting i've seen on the roadside here on rock creek and coopers creek WMA'S


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

if you see that going on, get a tag number and call the tip number for the DNR. they wont do it again if their on a closed road it's about a $300 fine !


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> I refer to anyone who is just driving rough roads for the purpose of driving rough roads. Incidentally, it’s apparently much more fun if you drive through the roughest places over and over again. And the real fun is when you try to get over FS berms and see how far you can get.


it seems like there are a very few places they let it go on, like the top of hawk mountain, and thats fine, i've even gone up a few of those rough 4wd only roads myself, but jumping the berms and driving off the roads aint cool, ruins it for everyone...


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## JustUs4All (Jun 13, 2021)

I think they ought to outlaw mud tires on pavement.  They are way too loud and dangerous to others.  They don't have the proper traction capabilities on the pavement and those big lugs tear at the road surfaces and cause them to have to be replaced sooner than regular passenger type tires.  If they were outlawed the .Gov could spend more money on maintaining the really bad places in the forest service roads.  Besides if they were outlawed on the highways there would be far fewer of them on the forest service roads to begin with.  Two birds killed with one stone.  Who'se for it. We could start an online petition.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 13, 2021)

Same around here, except there are very few jeeps involved. It's mostly 18-20 yo boys in squatted diesel Ford and Chevy pickups with big tires. Makes it almost impossible to get around some of the FS roads to hunt and fish in a normal 4wd without 2' ground clearance. Mudholes and ruts wallered out knee deep or more all over the place. These same folks are some of the worst litterbugs out there, too. All the places that are tore up are also covered with Monster energy drink cans.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

JustUs4All said:


> I think they ought to outlaw mud tires on pavement.  They are way too loud and dangerous to others.  They don't have the proper traction capabilities on the pavement and those big lugs tear at the road surfaces and cause them to have to be replaced sooner than regular passenger type tires.  If they were outlawed the .Gov could spend more money on maintaining the really bad places in the forest service roads.  Besides if they were outlawed on the highways there would be far fewer of them on the forest service roads to begin with.  Two birds killed with one stone.  Who'se for it. We could start an online petition.


and outlaw street tires off the pavement too !


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## jbogg (Jun 13, 2021)

One afternoon last fall I had just started walking in to hunt on a burmed up logging road and had a jeep come over the burm right behind me.  I turned around cradling my .308 and stood my ground in the center of the old roadbed with my best “you ain’t from around here” look on my face.  He backed up over that burm in reverse so I guess my ticked off mountain man impression worked.


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## JustUs4All (Jun 13, 2021)

tr21 said:


> and outlaw street tires off the pavement too !



But of course.  Everything in it's place.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 13, 2021)

tr21 said:


> i totally agree being a jeep owner myself... they should also stop all the bear and deer hunting, you dont know how many empty bags from baiting i've seen on the roadside here on rock creek and coopers creek WMA'S





tr21 said:


> and outlaw street tires off the pavement too !


So, you support stupid people mudbogging on public FS roads and tearing them all to hades so that they're impossible to drive through without a mudbog machine? You should see some of the ones around here. You can't even walk through them.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

no, but there are some areas up here that are rough its usually at the ends of a trial that are rough . usually the main roads are good and like i said if you see someone going off the road way get a tag number and call. i have noticed more parks opening up with 4x4 trails maybe this will help some ! if they get a few $300 fines they'll stop


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## jbogg (Jun 13, 2021)

tr21 said:


> i totally agree being a jeep owner myself... they should also stop all the bear and deer hunting, you dont know how many empty bags from baiting i've seen on the roadside here on rock creek and coopers creek WMA'S



I am up there almost every weekend and see plenty of trash from the general public, but I don’t remember ever seeing bags from baiting. Are you seeing empty bags of corn on the WMA? That would be pretty bold.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 13, 2021)

I don't mind people riding the roads in jeeps. 
I do despise the ones who have to find standing water and drive through it over and over again, even if it's just a ditch. 
Then the forest service spends all their road money fixing idiots ruts. Between them and the trash dumpers, I get plum angry about it. I see ruts and trash and all I can think is, "won't be long until some city slicker wants to close this area off." 
The forest service could be a little more proactive, imo.  

As a matter of fact, I get much more frustrated with the forest service than I do the jeepers. I keep a saw, a trash bag and a shovel in my truck. Why can't they?


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 13, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> I don't mind people riding the roads in jeeps.
> I do despise the ones who have to find standing water and drive through it over and over again, even if it's just a ditch.
> Then the forest service spends all their road money fixing idiots ruts. Between them and the trash dumpers, I get plum angry about it. I see ruts and trash and all I can think is, "won't be long until some city slicker wants to close this area off."
> The forest service could be a little more proactive, imo.
> ...


There are mudholes neck deep in the FS roads here from folks doing just that.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I am up there almost every weekend and see plenty of trash from the general public, but I don’t remember ever seeing bags from baiting. Are you seeing empty bags of corn on the WMA? That would be pretty bold.


yep corn and sweet feed bags . usually way out in the middle of nowhere. and it aint just 1 bag where you could say it was somebody throwing it out as trash. its 3 or 4 bags together.


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## whitetailfreak (Jun 13, 2021)

tr21 said:


> yep corn and sweet feed bags . usually way out in the middle of nowhere. and it aint just 1 bag where you could say it was somebody throwing it out as trash. its 3 or 4 bags together.



I call **. I'm on the largest WMA in the state 3 or 4 times per week and have never found an  empty bag of corn on the WMA. The rural county roads are a different story.


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## strothershwacker (Jun 13, 2021)

I got caught climbing a muddy bank on a wma in my cj5 when I was in my 20's. Game warden met me with 2 county deputies and nawd me up one side and down the other. He must have sensed that I stood corrected because he let me go. I never done it again. They informed me that they could impound my jeep and arrest me for destruction of government property as well as criminal tresspass for leaving the improved road in a motor vehicle. Stupid is an awful hard thing to fix. A stearn warning was enough for me. Others may need tire spikes laid in the roadside wallers for the ditch divers?


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## whitetailfreak (Jun 13, 2021)

Thank goodness they put a stop to jeeps on the head of Tellico. The least amount of rain would have Tellico and headwater tribs running red due to erosion. USFS finally put a stop to it  as it was negatively impacting native Brook Trout water.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> I don't mind people riding the roads in jeeps.
> I do despise the ones who have to find standing water and drive through it over and over again, even if it's just a ditch.
> Then the forest service spends all their road money fixing idiots ruts. Between them and the trash dumpers, I get plum angry about it. I see ruts and trash and all I can think is, "won't be long until some city slicker wants to close this area off."
> The forest service could be a little more proactive, imo.
> ...


thats what i'm talking about if their driving in ditches or trying to drive firebreaks thats a major no-no, get their tag and call the dnr tip line or forestry dept if your on NF land. a few bad ones will ruin it for all just like years ago you could ride 4 wheelers on the forestry roads, well they started tearing up the firebreaks and driving up in the woods, now, no more ATV's allowed . i guess it all comes down to respecting the land. like i said here they seem to allow a few out of the way or far out end of roads to be used as 4 wheelin spots IMO to stop people from tearing up the main roads, but then the people going there will do what your talking about on the way back to these areas.


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## tr21 (Jun 13, 2021)

whitetailfreak said:


> I call **. I'm on the largest WMA in the state 3 or 4 times per week and have never found an  empty bag of corn on the WMA. The rural county roads are a different story.


well i've seen it on 10 mile road just before the trout hatchery on rock creek wma


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## twoheartedale (Jun 13, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> It’s absolutely criminal what these people are doing to our FS roads.



Almost as bad as bear hunters who use a rifle!  Crying shame.


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## earlthegoat2 (Jun 13, 2021)

Here is an idiot I found one day stuck on a WMA. 

It’s my brother. 

For the record, he was not actually bombing down the two tracks. He was just driving and the hole was deeper than he thought. I was driving in behind  in my F250 with factory suspension and tire size and went right through it after I pulled him out. I was about a full 12” higher though.


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## strothershwacker (Jun 13, 2021)

whitetailfreak said:


> Thank goodness they put a stop to jeeps on the head of Tellico. The least amount of rain would have Tellico and headwater tribs running red due to erosion. USFS finally put a stop to it  as it was negatively impacting native Brook Trout water.


Years ago the offroading at tellico was really no harm but as time progressed and so did the amount of jeeps/trucks and there ever growing tire sizes and capabilities evolved it just became more than the trails and streams could bear. Theres more people in the world than there was 20-30-40 years ago. By shear population numbers we have to be more mindful of the conservation of our wild places.


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## longrangedog (Jun 14, 2021)

I'm one of two landowners bordering the Chattahoochee National Forest whose access is an old FS road that ends on my property. Based on the amount of beer cans and associated trash I see, we must be party central for the local kids. I've asked the FS to allow me to gate off the road (I'd give the FS the combination or they could add their own lock).  Several weeks have gone by with no response from the FS.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 14, 2021)

longrangedog said:


> I'm one of two landowners bordering the Chattahoochee National Forest whose access is an old FS road that ends on my property. Based on the amount of beer cans and associated trash I see, we must be party central for the local kids. I've asked the FS to allow me to gate off the road (I'd give the FS the combination or they could add their own lock).  Several weeks have gone by with no response from the FS.


No offense, but I hope it never happens.
Our response to trash cannot be "close the road" or pretty soon we'll never have any roads to access.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jun 14, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> No offense, but I hope it never happens.
> Our response to trash cannot be "close the road" or pretty soon we'll never have any roads to access.



True, we already have a fraction of the access we once had.


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## antharper (Jun 14, 2021)

JustUs4All said:


> I think they ought to outlaw mud tires on pavement.  They are way too loud and dangerous to others.  They don't have the proper traction capabilities on the pavement and those big lugs tear at the road surfaces and cause them to have to be replaced sooner than regular passenger type tires.  If they were outlawed the .Gov could spend more money on maintaining the really bad places in the forest service roads.  Besides if they were outlawed on the highways there would be far fewer of them on the forest service roads to begin with.  Two birds killed with one stone.  Who'se for it. We could start an online petition.


I love mine , nothing like the roar of some good super swampers .


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## earlthegoat2 (Jun 14, 2021)

No more my land my rules?


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 14, 2021)

tr21 said:


> well i've seen it on 10 mile road just before the trout hatchery on rock creek wma


I've picked up bags and bags of trash but no baiting bags. Not saying you haven't, but most of my trash is from left over campers or local partiers. 
It's a shame hunters and anglers often are punished for that.


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## twincedargap (Jun 14, 2021)

GeorgiaGlockMan said:


> It's not just the jeep people out there.
> 
> I'd argue as a whole Jeepers tread more lightly than "others".


I frequently see groups of Jeeps & 4x4's driving the FS roads looking for places to mud bog or spin tires.  They create new trails, expand any puddle or wet ditch into a huge mess, generally wreak havoc.  I agree, its horribly damaging to the roads and environment.  I'm always glad to find gated roads so I can bike or hike into undisturbed, less damaged areas.


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## tree cutter 08 (Jun 14, 2021)

If they wanted to enforce the problem all it takes is a warden sitting at the end of a fs road on a weekend that gets alot of activity. I can't remember last time I have seen that. Certian areas are worse than others. Not hard to figure out what places to sit.


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## splatek (Jun 14, 2021)

When I had my ATK I was able to find some designated OHV/ATV/JEEP areas... is it "cool" to use other roads designated for regular 4x4 traffic? I am unfamiliar with the jeep culture, but I have see a few roads that are torn up like a monster truck went through it leaving me to back out quite a ways. I just chalked it up to normal traffic until @twincedargap let me in on the jeepers and ranger foote told me that if I saw any jeepers doing stupid stuff to call him, immediately. 

Spencer, my ten year old and I were scouting bears right before last season opener and saw two different jeeps coming off a couple food plots. Seems like the most boring 'off roading' would be on a food plot, but they were plum tore up with jeep and tire marks. 

In my limited experience, number make a difference. At least, I think so. The bear-dog hunt got some numbers asking for a delay in the start of that and it happened. Not sure about cause and effect there, but maybe if enough folks complain enough times... something will happen.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 14, 2021)

tree cutter 08 said:


> If they wanted to enforce the problem all it takes is a warden sitting at the end of a fs road on a weekend that gets alot of activity. I can't remember last time I have seen that. Certian areas are worse than others. Not hard to figure out what places to sit.


Amen to that! The forest service has its own leos also. Use them. 
They probably don't want to drive down roads that haven't been maintained in years


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## CornStalker (Jun 14, 2021)

The off-road riding is really a big problem on just about every piece of public land….everywhere. In fact, it’s a problem on large private tracts as well. This winter I was trapping a large property owned by US Steel and leased by some bow hunters. I ran into people every weekend on old 4x4s, 4-wheelers, and rock crawlers. All of them went around locked gates and absolutely knew they were trespassing. It’s also nearly impossible to catch them in the act without coordinated law enforcement actions. 

The best way to curtail it is probably a combination of actions including More law enforcement presence, reporting violators, and increasing fines.


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## Lukikus2 (Jun 14, 2021)

strothershwacker said:


> Years ago the offroading at tellico was really no harm but as time progressed and so did the amount of jeeps/trucks and there ever growing tire sizes and capabilities evolved it just became more than the trails and streams could bear. Theres more people in the world than there was 20-30-40 years ago. By shear population numbers we have to be more mindful of the conservation of our wild places.



Love that place. Camped primitive, stayed in the hotel and rented a cabin more than a few times. Back in the 80's it was Jeep trails. Use to be in the magazines. Then came the rock crawlers and nitro charged. A man couldn't find a campsite unless he went to a primitive. Sounds worse now. That's beautiful country.


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## Timberjack86 (Jun 14, 2021)

I noticed this on cohutta alot. But not on the South Cherokee wma adjacent to it in Tn. Wonder why?


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## Unicoidawg (Jun 14, 2021)

Go sit on Tray Mtn. any weekend and watch the endless line of jeeps and jacked up 4x4's destroying the roads. They find any wet spot and waller like a bunch of pigs and then post it on FB and invite the rest of the Backstreet Boys with Daddy's money to come partake in the destruction. There are a bunch of roads now closed because of these yahoos. I can't even get close to one of my favorite native fishing spots anymore because of it. It was already a mile walk in and now it would be 4 or 5 miles just to get where I usually park. I'd love to be let loose with a ticket book at about $1500 a pop. We'd fix that real quick.


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## ChidJ (Jun 14, 2021)

Hear me out. I'm completely against 4 wheelin on WMA. Its designed for wildlife management. However, on the national forest or other mostly general public use land, I care a little less. They do tear up the roads sometimes but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make to avoid more legislation and less freedom. I'd rather have ruts than gates. I'd rather have the occasional noisy party than more game wardens or rangers. The land is supposed to be for the people to use. Most of the jeeps paid their abhorrent ad valorem tax which should cover a grade once a year on these roads. As much as I'd like every person who ventures into the outdoors to be a "leave no trace conservationist" its not realistic.

I thought I might say they could all just go to an ORV park but then, that would be tantamount to saying all hunters should go to private hunting ranches.


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## longrangedog (Jun 14, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> No offense, but I hope it never happens.
> Our response to trash cannot be "close the road" or pretty soon we'll never have any roads to access.


I guess you missed the private property part and the road ends on my property part.


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## earlthegoat2 (Jun 14, 2021)

longrangedog said:


> I guess you missed the private property part and the road ends on my property part.



I was curious about that too.


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## Resica (Jun 14, 2021)

Sorry to hear your issue folks. That stinks. Don't see it up here on state land and we have miles and miles of roads( driveable trails). Lots of them put in for the gas back in the 50's and 60's.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 14, 2021)

Unicoidawg said:


> Go sit on Tray Mtn. any weekend and watch the endless line of jeeps and jacked up 4x4's destroying the roads. They find any wet spot and waller like a bunch of pigs and then post it on FB and invite the rest of the Backstreet Boys with Daddy's money to come partake in the destruction. There are a bunch of roads now closed because of these yahoos. I can't even get close to one of my favorite native fishing spots anymore because of it. It was already a mile walk in and now it would be 4 or 5 miles just to get where I usually park. I'd love to be let loose with a ticket book at about $1500 a pop. We'd fix that real quick.



This. 

Now my buddy in north bama tells me the razor craze has come and they do what jeeps do times ten. We are going to keep losing access bc of these morons.  It always amazes me to watch people pour out of the mountains on a sunday. People that made long drives to spend a weekend but never actually set foot on a mountain.


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## strothershwacker (Jun 14, 2021)

I had a school teacher that drove an old flat fender army jeep nearly to his stand on forestry land. If his jeep could make it, he went anywhere he wanted road or not. He was a big fat guy that didn't like walking but he kilt some really goid mountain bucks. But that was way back in the early 70s. Just way too many people nowadays.  We gotta stick to improved roads. My wife just bought a new jeep. Got nothing against em. Might even catch us with the top down cruising round the mountain checking trail cams this summer. If ye wanna mud bog, rock climb and trail ride theres 70,000 acres you can do it on old coal mine land outside of oak ridge tn. I think its called Windrock. Went with some friends years ago. Neat place. Go have a ball! But tdd ake it easy on big brothers land. I know its "ours" but he still calling the shots!


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## Lukikus2 (Jun 14, 2021)

ChidJ said:


> Hear me out. I'm completely against 4 wheelin on WMA. Its designed for wildlife management. However, on the national forest or other mostly general public use land, I care a little less. They do tear up the roads sometimes but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make to avoid more legislation and less freedom. I'd rather have ruts than gates. I'd rather have the occasional noisy party than more game wardens or rangers. The land is supposed to be for the people to use. Most of the jeeps paid their abhorrent ad valorem tax which should cover a grade once a year on these roads. As much as I'd like every person who ventures into the outdoors to be a "leave no trace conservationist" its not realistic.
> 
> I thought I might say they could all just go to an ORV park but then, that would be tantamount to saying all hunters should go to private hunting ranches.



Nope. Just that 4 wheel drive enthuist should care more about the environment.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 14, 2021)

strothershwacker said:


> I had a school teacher that drove an old flat fender army jeep nearly to his stand on forestry land. If his jeep could make it, he went anywhere he wanted road or not. He was a big fat guy that didn't like walking but he kilt some really goid mountain bucks. But that was way back in the early 70s. Just way too many people nowadays.  We gotta stick to improved roads. My wife just bought a new jeep. Got nothing against em. Might even catch us with the top down cruising round the mountain checking trail cams this summer. If ye wanna mud bog, rock climb and trail ride theres 70,000 acres you can do it on old coal mine land outside of oak ridge tn. I think its called Windrock. Went with some friends years ago. Neat place. Go have a ball! But tdd ake it easy on big brothers land. I know its "ours" but he still calling the shots!



Theres an ORV park on NF land right below lake burton. Keep the idiocy there.


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## jbogg (Jun 14, 2021)

ChidJ said:


> Hear me out. I'm completely against 4 wheelin on WMA. Its designed for wildlife management. However, on the national forest or other mostly general public use land, I care a little less. They do tear up the roads sometimes but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make to avoid more legislation and less freedom. I'd rather have ruts than gates. I'd rather have the occasional noisy party than more game wardens or rangers. The land is supposed to be for the people to use. Most of the jeeps paid their abhorrent ad valorem tax which should cover a grade once a year on these roads. As much as I'd like every person who ventures into the outdoors to be a "leave no trace conservationist" its not realistic.
> 
> I thought I might say they could all just go to an ORV park but then, that would be tantamount to saying all hunters should go to private hunting ranches.



I’m not following your line of thinking on this. It’s all federal land owned by the forest service, the state just happens to manage portions of it. When one stakeholder Negatively impacts the resource to the point where other stakeholders cannot use The resource then that is a problem that needs to be remedied with laws. Frankly, I would prefer to see more game wardens and LEOs than less.


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## Professor (Jun 14, 2021)

whitetailfreak said:


> I call **. I'm on the largest WMA in the state 3 or 4 times per week and have never found an  empty bag of corn on the WMA. The rural county roads are a different story.


I found three bags last year on NF land.


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## earlthegoat2 (Jun 15, 2021)

It’s unfortunately just like conservationism. The hunters and fishermen bear the responsibility to keep those pastimes sustainable. Not everyone plays along though and it is unfortunate that the very small minority ruins it for the responsible majority. 

In the same light, off road enthusiasts need to keep their activities sustainable. Chewing up a bunch of public land and doing nothing to give back is not the way to do it.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 15, 2021)

tr21 said:


> and outlaw street tires off the pavement too !


that would make it rough on me.  I would have to change tires on my way to work when I got off my dirt road, and then again before I could drive on home in the evenings. 

My wife would have to walk home toting her groceries. I ain't buying another set of tires and wheels for her CR-V


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 15, 2021)

ChidJ said:


> Hear me out. I'm completely against 4 wheelin on WMA. Its designed for wildlife management. However, on the national forest or other mostly general public use land, I care a little less. They do tear up the roads sometimes but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make to avoid more legislation and less freedom. I'd rather have ruts than gates. I'd rather have the occasional noisy party than more game wardens or rangers. The land is supposed to be for the people to use. Most of the jeeps paid their abhorrent ad valorem tax which should cover a grade once a year on these roads. As much as I'd like every person who ventures into the outdoors to be a "leave no trace conservationist" its not realistic.
> 
> I thought I might say they could all just go to an ORV park but then, that would be tantamount to saying all hunters should go to private hunting ranches.


The whole point is that the land is for all people to use, not just mud boggers. They destroy the access to the land so that other people CAN'T use it. No different than if I go up there and snare every deer and bear on there so nobody else can hunt, or seine the trout streams. Destructive use is not what it's there for. Hunters and fishermen also pay for the privilege of what they're doing, jeepers don't.


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## Heath (Jun 15, 2021)

longrangedog said:


> I'm one of two landowners bordering the Chattahoochee National Forest whose access is an old FS road that ends on my property. Based on the amount of beer cans and associated trash I see, we must be party central for the local kids. I've asked the FS to allow me to gate off the road (I'd give the FS the combination or they could add their own lock).  Several weeks have gone by with no response from the FS.



If the access is there it is not on your land it is through a legal easement across your land.  Just reading your wording tells me it’s more so in line with every other person who got an access point gated or removed entirely.  You bought or inherited a place with public access and now want to control it because you don’t like it.  So any excuse will do.


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## ChidJ (Jun 15, 2021)

@NCHillbilly I see what you are saying. I would only counter with the opinion that the majority of vehicular recreationalist type folks aren’t turning forest service roads into mud bogs. Just a handful of them.

I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on unpaved roads in Georgia but I’ve spent my fair share of time on public hunting land all over the state. I’ve run into very few roads that were impassable by your average pick up truck and even fewer where the impassability was because of off roaders. I know the idea is that it’s “open to all” but the reality is that it’s open to most; to the determined. A heavy rainstorm will deny access to most sedans.

I would also posit that in a country where the government is allegedly “of the people, by the people, and for the people”, where common folk bear a tax burden of 25-40% of their earnings, access to public land should be a right rather than a privilege. I understand that isn’t actually the case but we are talking ideals here. Ideally hunters and off road enthusiasts act as responsible stewards of the woods.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 15, 2021)

longrangedog said:


> I guess you missed the private property part and the road ends on my property part.


If you own the land and the road, put the gate up on your land and on your end of the road. The forest  service can not control that. But, if it's an easement or you don't control the access, then you should honor legally granted access.

Like heath is saying, if you buy a piece of land and begin dictating who can use the forest service access, then I would imagine we have a different way of looking at the world.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 15, 2021)

ChidJ said:


> @NCHillbilly I see what you are saying. I would only counter with the opinion that the majority of vehicular recreationalist type folks aren’t turning forest service roads into mud bogs. Just a handful of them.
> 
> I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on unpaved roads in Georgia but I’ve spent my fair share of time on public hunting land all over the state. I’ve run into very few roads that were impassable by your average pick up truck and even fewer where the impassability was because of off roaders. I know the idea is that it’s “open to all” but the reality is that it’s open to most; to the determined. A heavy rainstorm will deny access to most sedans.
> 
> I would also posit that in a country where the government is allegedly “of the people, by the people, and for the people”, where common folk bear a tax burden of 25-40% of their earnings, access to public land should be a right rather than a privilege. I understand that isn’t actually the case but we are talking ideals here. Ideally hunters and off road enthusiasts act as responsible stewards of the woods.


There are plenty of places around here that are destroyed exactly because of people wallering out mudholes and ruts intentionally. Miles and miles of FS roads. I'm not talking about inaccessible to sedans, I'm talking about you can't get through in a normal 4wd truck with good tires. Or half of those mudboggers, for that matter. Not to mention erosion and silt running into pristine trout streams. It shows a complete lack of respect for the land, the earth, and other people. The bad part is, there are plenty of places where you can go legally do it without messing up the public lands for all the other users.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 15, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> There are plenty of places around here that are destroyed exactly because of people wallering out mudholes and ruts intentionally. Miles and miles of FS roads. I'm not talking about inaccessible to sedans, I'm talking about you can't get through in a normal 4wd truck with good tires. Or half of those mudboggers, for that matter. Not to mention erosion and silt running into pristine trout streams. It shows a complete lack of respect for the land, the earth, and other people. The bad part is, there are plenty of places where you can go legally do it without messing up the public lands for all the other users.



This is the issue. We already have designated areas set aside for this stuff. Keep it there.  And it’s not a small minority of the orv community. Thats horse crap. Its the vast majority. I see it on a weekly basis.


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## hopper (Jun 16, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> This is the issue. We already have designated areas set aside for this stuff. Keep it there.  And it’s not a small minority of the orv community. Thats horse crap. Its the vast majority. I see it on a weekly basis.


Were are those designated areas located in North Ga ? I Know of a couple that is specific to Off Road but not many. 
 I Jeep but not like these kids and some adults tearing up FS roads. It is definitely a problem.  Maybee more opportunity for Off road vehicles would help.


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## gobbleinwoods (Jun 17, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> True, we already have a fraction of the access we once had.



Mostly due to lack of funds to maintain the fs roads.  However, if they weren't torn up they wouldn't need to motor grade them.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 17, 2021)

gobbleinwoods said:


> Mostly due to lack of funds to maintain the fs roads.  However, if they weren't torn up they wouldn't need to motor grade them.


You always have to blade a gravel road. Always. Four wheeling or not. 
I will say I think some of it is due to the roads getting in such bad shape that jeepers are like "Well it's not like it's a great road anyway..." Kinda like once the first trash is thrown out, it really seems to grow. 
I know that's not all of it, some people tear up anything.


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## Geezer Ray (Jun 17, 2021)

hopper said:


> Were are those designated areas located in North Ga ? I Know of a couple that is specific to Off Road but not many.
> I Jeep but not like these kids and some adults tearing up FS roads. It is definitely a problem.  Maybee more opportunity for Off road vehicles would help.


There is one near Toccoa,  I think it is off Rock Rd, and one near Lake Burton.  But, even though they are designated ORV, they are posted not trucks, 4 wheelers only my guess from looking at the trails. I know of no designated four wheel drive Federal or State trails for jeep types.  Only ones I know are private.  WindRock near Oakwood Tennessee sounds like it is becoming a rich man's place.


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## ddd-shooter (Jun 17, 2021)

Geezer Ray said:


> There is one near Toccoa,  I think it is off Rock Rd, and one near Lake Burton.  But, even though they are designated ORV, they are posted not trucks, 4 wheelers only my guess from looking at the trails. I know of no designated four wheel drive Federal or State trails for jeep types.  Only ones I know are private.  WindRock near Oakwood Tennessee sounds like it is becoming a rich man's place.


Beasley knob in blairsville. Great trails. Fun ride.


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## hopper (Jun 17, 2021)

Beasly knob and Iron Mountain are the only two I know of around here or within a comfortable drive. Without places to go people that do not respect the land (mostly young guys) will always find their own places.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 17, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> You always have to blade a gravel road. Always. Four wheeling or not.
> I will say I think some of it is due to the roads getting in such bad shape that jeepers are like "Well it's not like it's a great road anyway..." Kinda like once the first trash is thrown out, it really seems to grow.
> I know that's not all of it, some people tear up anything.


It's not the gravel roads here. It's the non-gravel woods roads.


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## flyrod444 (Jun 18, 2021)

I live about 3 miles from a bunch of forest service roads that have not only been closed but permanently made unusable by anything but your feet. They came in and dug the roads out for hundred of yards and piled huge boulders in the roads. One can barely walk them and they aren't even accessable by horse back anymore. This came about by the abuse of the four wheel drive craze. Most where Suzuki samurais and such made into extreme off road rigs, toyota pickup trucks also made for extreme off roading. I can honestly say I never saw but a handful of jeeps on these roads. There was one group that used to ride them in their old land rovers and land cruisers, but I never saw them come out muddy like they had spent all day spinning up a muddy spot. So don't blame just jeep owners. Most never even get off the state roads.


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## Resica (Jun 19, 2021)

Probably Yankees doing this!!


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## Danuwoa (Jun 21, 2021)

I wish the outdoor craze that had brought us Jeep people, mountain bikers, paddle boarders, etc would end.  I can’t stand most of those people.


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## splatek (Jun 21, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> I wish the outdoor craze that had brought us Jeep people, mountain bikers, paddle boarders, etc would end.  I can’t stand most of those people.



Sounds like we might get along just fine.


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## jbogg (Jun 21, 2021)

Full disclosure.  I used to be a road cyclist in my younger days until texting and driving became so prevalent that I knew it was just a matter of time until I ended up in a ditch.  I was always conscious of and respectful of motorists, and appreciated the same in return.  However,  I absolutely can not stand the cyclists that have no regard for vehicles, and act like they own the road.  Last weekend I rolled up behind three cyclists shoulder to shoulder slowly climbing HW 60 towards Woody Gap.  I gave them a piece of my mind as I had to cross the double yellow line as I tried to get around them.  They made no effort to drop back single file to allow vehicles to pass.  These are the types that give all cyclists a bad name.


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## Danuwoa (Jun 21, 2021)

jbogg said:


> Full disclosure.  I used to be a road cyclist in my younger days until texting and driving became so prevalent that I knew it was just a matter of time until I ended up in a ditch.  I was always conscious of and respectful of motorists, and appreciated the same in return.  However,  I absolutely can not stand the cyclists that have no regard for vehicles, and act like they own the road.  Last weekend I rolled up behind three cyclists shoulder to shoulder slowly climbing HW 60 towards Woody Gap.  I gave them a piece of my mind as I had to cross the double yellow line as I tried to get around them.  They made no effort to drop back single file to allow vehicles to pass.  These are the types that give all cyclists a bad name.


I ride a bike for exercise but it’s where ain’t nobody gonna be driving or doing anything.  Entitled jerks is what those people are.


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## tr21 (Jun 21, 2021)

jbogg said:


> Full disclosure.  I used to be a road cyclist in my younger days until texting and driving became so prevalent that I knew it was just a matter of time until I ended up in a ditch.  I was always conscious of and respectful of motorists, and appreciated the same in return.  However,  I absolutely can not stand the cyclists that have no regard for vehicles, and act like they own the road.  Last weekend I rolled up behind three cyclists shoulder to shoulder slowly climbing HW 60 towards Woody Gap.  I gave them a piece of my mind as I had to cross the double yellow line as I tried to get around them.  They made no effort to drop back single file to allow vehicles to pass.  These are the types that give all cyclists a bad name.





Danuwoa said:


> I ride a bike for exercise but it’s where ain’t nobody gonna be driving or doing anything.  Entitled jerks is what those people are.


yep thats where i live hate both the bicyclist and motorcyclist ! nothing like coming around one of those sharp corners on 60 and have one of these guys peddling his butt off and going 2 mph, or heading to town only to have the hwy shut down because some motorcyclist done drove off the road  now i keep a queen cd in the player and when i come up on a motor cycle wreck i roll the windows down and crank up  "another one bites the dust". the cops normally  just grin....


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## jbogg (Jun 21, 2021)

tr21 said:


> yep thats where i live hate both the bicyclist and motorcyclist ! nothing like coming around one of those sharp corners on 60 and have one of these guys peddling his butt off and going 2 mph, or heading to town only to have the hwy shut down because some motorcyclist done drove off the road  now i keep a queen cd in the player and when i come up on a motor cycle wreck i roll the windows down and crank up  "another one bites the dust". the cops normally  just grin....



Yep.  The idgets on the crotch rockets are a whole nother story.  I’ve lost count as to the number of motorcycle wrecks I’ve come across up there.  There’s a curve a mile or two south of Neel Gap on HW 129 where I frequently see a photographer waiting for those clowns to come racing up the hill at 80 mph.  Lots of wooden crosses nailed to trees from top to bottom for a reason.


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## flyrod444 (Jun 21, 2021)

I live one mile from wcu and joggers drive me nuts. Two line crooked road and they jog a foot inside the white line and refuse to move over off the road to allow cars to go on without crossing yellow line. Paddle boarders and kayaks at the boat ramp are the worst. I can have my 18' bass boat in or out of the water and out of the way of the ramp area in about 3 or 4 minutes tops. The kayaks and paddle boarders take about 20 minutes to get their """"" in and out of the water. I mean why don't they just go to the side of the ramp.


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## Danuwoa (Jun 21, 2021)

These people are all either yankees, city folks, or a combination.


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## Resica (Jun 21, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> These people are all either yankees, city folks, or a combination.


I was gonna say Yankees. No doubt!!


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## mizzippi jb (Jun 21, 2021)

Jeep people got their own little sissy wave lol. I've had, in my life, a cj7, 2 tjs, and 2 yj's.... And I have never participated in a jeep person wave (not with 2 fingers anyway).  I suppose I'm not a "jeep" person.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 22, 2021)

Here's one that I absolutely do not understand. It baffles me. In the last couple years, I have increasingly encountered "herds" or caravans of Jeeps. I'm talking like 25-50 or more Jeeps, all traveling together in a big line, like a trail of ants. This causes enough problems on highways or two-lane paved roads, but on backroads, it's an absolute mess. I encountered a herd of about 35-40 Jeeps traveling bumper-to-bumper into Cataloochee last year. I was trying to get out of Cataloochee at the time. On a one-lane gravel road with a thousand-foot dropoff on one side where you have to pull over to pass somebody coming the opposite direction, this effectively shut down all traffic in both directions for over an hour. I am seeing more and more of this all over here in the mountains, and it is extremely annoying to the utmost degree. Do they actually enjoy this? Are they afraid to travel alone? Are they just intentionally wanting to snarl up everybody else's day? Fill up all the parking areas so no one else has room to park? I fail to see the allure of it.


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## Danuwoa (Jun 22, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Here's one that I absolutely do not understand. It baffles me. In the last couple years, I have increasingly encountered "herds" or caravans of Jeeps. I'm talking like 25-50 or more Jeeps, all traveling together in a big line, like a trail of ants. This causes enough problems on highways or two-lane paved roads, but on backroads, it's an absolute mess. I encountered a herd of about 35-40 Jeeps traveling bumper-to-bumper into Cataloochee last year. I was trying to get out of Cataloochee at the time. On a one-lane gravel road with a thousand-foot dropoff on one side where you have to pull over to pass somebody coming the opposite direction, this effectively shut down all traffic in both directions for over an hour. I am seeing more and more of this all over here in the mountains, and it is extremely annoying to the utmost degree. Do they actually enjoy this? Are they afraid to travel alone? Are they just intentionally wanting to snarl up everybody else's day? Fill up all the parking areas so no one else has room to park? I fail to see the allure of it.


Neither you nor I are like this but lots of people need a group to belong to.  I think that’s what you’re seeing.


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## buckpasser (Jun 22, 2021)

I must be the worlds most boring off roader. I’ve owned several ATVs and now a Roxor and there has never been a desire to use it for anything but to get me from point A to point B.  Never made ruts (try to avoid making them), trespass, etc. What a loser I am...


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## Resica (Jun 23, 2021)

Jeep club , I assume, Steve. Birds of a feather.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 23, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I must be the worlds most boring off roader. I’ve owned several ATVs and now a Roxor and there has never been a desire to use it for anything but to get me from point A to point B.  Never made ruts (try to avoid making them), trespass, etc. What a loser I am...




I don`t even like to leave boot prints in the woods, much less tire tracks.


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## tree cutter 08 (Jun 23, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t even like to leave boot prints in the woods, much less tire tracks.


I go to alot of trouble to not leave boot tracks!


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## trad bow (Jun 23, 2021)

I don’t want anyone to know I’m anywhere around.


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## Doug B. (Jun 23, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t even like to leave boot prints in the woods, much less tire tracks.


That reminds me, I went to one of my honey holes one afternoon several years ago to hang a stand.  I got my stand hung and was coming back to the truck.  When I got to where I could see my truck, which was parked just on the side of a Forest Service road, I saw two game wardens in the road trying to track where I had went.  I started laughing and busted on out on them and said "are you bout to get me tracked down?"    They said "dang, you don't leave no sign". I said "no, I don't want anybody figuring out what I'm doing!"
Does that make me a recluse??


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 27, 2021)

Resica said:


> Jeep club , I assume, Steve. Birds of a feather.


I guess so. I drive a pickup truck, and I have no urge to hook up with 50 other people in pickups and drive up and down the road in a big line all day long.


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## Resica (Jun 27, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> I guess so. I drive a pickup truck, and I have no urge to hook up with 50 other people in pickups and drive up and down the road in a big line all day long.


I'm with you on that!! Me neither.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Jun 27, 2021)

I drive a dodge strattus


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## twoheartedale (Jun 27, 2021)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> I drive a dodge strattus



not true.  ive seen you in a pinto.


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