# "Cam Lean"..Does it really matter?



## Taylor Co. (Mar 7, 2014)

Lets hear everyone's opinion on the subject.
Personally, I don't put a lot of stock in it, either way.


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## 660griz (Mar 7, 2014)

Depends. If I couldn't get a tune on my bow or it was not forgiving and easy to shoot, I may look at cam lean. All bows have it of course. Or, I would probably just get another bow. 

That being said, if you have a horrible bow, you could possibly play around and get it to a nice shooter if you had the patience.


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## Kris87 (Mar 7, 2014)

Taylor Co. said:


> Lets hear everyone's opinion on the subject.
> Personally, I don't put a lot of stock in it, either way.



Does it matter?  Yes.  Anytime a cam leans, then the string, and thus the nock, has lateral movement.  The less the cam leans, the less the string moves sideways.  That said, most bows have some, except shoot through risers.  Some bows(two track binarys), have more than others.  

Doesn't mean I tune cam lean out of a bow.  I just want it to be minimal from brace to full draw.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 7, 2014)

Depends ? If its enough, the string will bounce off the stop and hit my arm. Doesn't mean it wont hit the same spot every time. 
Depending on your grip, it may not hit your arm either. I can't see any on either of my Addictions.


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## kevincox (Mar 7, 2014)

The Mathews Switchback I use to shoot had a fair amount but it shot like a dream and would shoot a nice hole thru paper


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## watermedic (Mar 7, 2014)

As long as it repeats itself it is fine. Bottom cam lean will cause some unwanted paper tears. Static yokes handle the upper lean while floating yokes won't. With a static yoke, you can induce lean to take out tears if need be. Not my preferred method but it does work.


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## alligood729 (Mar 7, 2014)

660griz said:


> Depends. If I couldn't get a tune on my bow or it was not forgiving and easy to shoot, I may look at cam lean. All bows have it of course. Or, I would probably just get another bow.
> 
> That being said, if you have a horrible bow, you could possibly play around and get it to a nice shooter if you had the patience.



All bows do not have it.....ask Kris87.....my Dominator is straight up from rest to full draw......


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## Kris87 (Mar 7, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> All bows do not have it.....ask Kris87.....my Dominator is straight up from rest to full draw......



It did until I fixed it.


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## alligood729 (Mar 8, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> It did until I fixed it.



But, but, but.....it was only a little....


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## Taylor Co. (Mar 8, 2014)

Really? I put no stock in it. I mean it can't lean like a cup saucer.. But most Hoyt's shoot best with just a bit of cam lean. 
Levi, Eric G., and several others are shooting 3-d and doing quite well, I might add. All with a cam system that has inherent cam lean.
Matt V. Won 7- Asa proams with a bow without a flex guard on a Bowtech Sentinel, that supposedly couldn't shoot a bareshaft.
My Hoyt's and according to the designer of Hoyt's cams said it's generally best when at full draw that the cams lean just a bit top edge left for best performance. Now what do you say?
I know there are variables in everything. But, I say "hogwash".
My ProComp Elite w/GTX cams has an ever so slight lean, the arrow tunes straight down the limb bolts and stabilizer. It shoots Lazers with bareshafts to 25-yds.


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## Kris87 (Mar 8, 2014)

I say you know the same thing as anyone else who tunes a lot of bows.  Yes they lean, yes most bows shoot best with some.  But the less the better, that's my point.  Anytime you can reduce a variable that causes an arrow to not track straight the better.  

Again, I don't tune it out.  I find the least amount a bow needs to give proper flight.  Simple.


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## Kris87 (Mar 8, 2014)

Here's a shaft laying on the top left side of my cam.  Generally all my Hoyts tune close to this same amount of lean at brace which isn't a lot.  The cam rotates clockwise during the draw making it straighter at full draw.  That's what you ideally want...straight at full draw or close to it.


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## pasinthrough (Mar 8, 2014)

I have a confession to make.  My bow has cam lean.  Now I feel better!

I usually just shoot with one foot higher than the other and it compensates for it.  I'm one who mainly hunts, and as long as my bow tunes field points to fixed blade and mechanical broadheads at distance, I'm good with it.  I've never had a deer ask to be shot with or without cam lean...


Most bows have lean and it can be induced by grip, improper shimming, out of spec harness etc.  Most bows shoot better with a little lean and most hunters don't even know if theirs lean or not.

I've shot, tuned and hunted with 3 track and 2 track bows since 2005.  I like the performance and will stay with what I know how to work with.  The only thing I know how to do with a yoke is scramble it...


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## SWWTV (Mar 8, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> Does it matter?  Yes.  Anytime a cam leans, then the string, and thus the nock, has lateral movement.  The less the cam leans, the less the string moves sideways.  That said, most bows have some, except shoot through risers.  Some bows(two track binarys), have more than others.
> 
> Doesn't mean I tune cam lean out of a bow.  I just want it to be minimal from brace to full draw.


yes I would agree those two tracks that won the ASA Pro Am in Alabama were deadly accurate even a novice shot 26 up with an Obsession with a two track. That's shooting unknown at little small 12 s just saying with a little can lean hmmm.


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## Kris87 (Mar 8, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> yes I would agree those two tracks that won the ASA Pro Am in Alabama were deadly accurate even a novice shot 26 up with an Obsession with a two track. That's shooting unknown at little small 12 s just saying with a little can lean hmmm.



Yep, the Elites are doing well this year.  Congrats to Levi on his win.


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## Kris87 (Mar 8, 2014)

pasinthrough said:


> The only thing I know how to do with a yoke is scramble it...



Your eggs must suck.  Try scrambling some yolks to see how you like them.


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## pasinthrough (Mar 8, 2014)

That's what I get for typing when I have a blood clot in my vane...


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## basschaser (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm a bow only guy that wished he knew enough about bows and cam lean to give some input.


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## The Arrow Guru (Mar 8, 2014)

Fact is, it does not matter as much as a lot of people make it out. Too much is obviously bad, but just about all bows have an amount of it. Super tuners that charge people for their mystical skills that no one else has make a big deal out of it, but hey, they are trying to sell their service. So any who.........


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## SWWTV (Mar 9, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> Yep, the Elites are doing well this year.  Congrats to Levi on his win.


yep if I would have had 250,000.00 to dish out it would have been our bows. Oh I did have a guy shoot 26 up and won third in one of the classes dang I didn't pay him I got to tighten up.


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## SWWTV (Mar 9, 2014)

(Half of Your troubles) will be over if you shoot a Two Track just saying.


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## Taylor Co. (Mar 9, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> I say you know the same thing as anyone else who tunes a lot of bows.  Yes they lean, yes most bows shoot best with some.  But the less the better, that's my point.  Anytime you can reduce a variable that causes an arrow to not track straight the better.
> 
> Again, I don't tune it out.  I find the least amount a bow needs to give proper flight.  Simple.



And a little more. I do it all day everyday. Least is best, I agree.
The Obsession Phoenix was the best bow that I shot at the ATA show. And my boss and I agreed on that. We shot every bow at the show. The lean that I saw was minimal on all of the Obsession bows I shot. Just a joy to shoot and aim with.
Also, the designer at Hoyt said: besides the cam-1/2, my next favorite cam system is the slaved 2-track. Everyone of the archery technicians asked about cam lean...he shrugged and said he wished that the industry never even started talking about it..and then said, "as long as it does the same thing every time, it's really no big deal". 
He did say, it's good to keep it to a minimum.
This has been a civil discussion. Keep the thoughts coming.


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## Kris87 (Mar 9, 2014)

Taylor Co. said:


> Also, the designer at Hoyt said: besides the cam-1/2, my next favorite cam system is the slaved 2-track.



I would have to agree.  Here's a quote from the binary man himself, Kevin Strother, on AT from a couple years ago.  I've always remembered it.  


 Originally Posted by Kevin Strother1 
I'll set the record straight for you.

 I can make a binary and have it on the market in Oct 2010.

 I have 2 new binary patent applications filed, but will never bring it to market until the patents are issued, if they never issue the cams will never be released. I'm also working on a new hybrid cam patent. FYI, it takes an average of 3-4 years to receive a patent.

 I will NOT have a binary cam bow in 2011. I like the hybrid system better than a current binary systems.

 Speed is attainable with a much "smoother" consistent draw cycle, the hybrid is a much quieter system on the shot. Less tuning issues with a hybrid than a binary. 

 My post is not intended to start an argument, it's my opinion on cam systems.


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## Taylor Co. (Mar 9, 2014)

Binary is a term and licensed unto Bowtech. It's a 3-track.
We see that he's designed a cam and bows for Obsession centered around Wilson's dual track, slaved system.


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## Kris87 (Mar 9, 2014)

Taylor Co. said:


> Binary is a term and licensed unto Bowtech. It's a 3-track.
> We see that he's designed a cam and bows for Obsession centered around Wilson's dual track, slaved system.



So what cam system is it?  I'm wanting to learn.


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## KillZone (Mar 9, 2014)

Just switched from shooting a hoyt/10yrs to Obsession (addiction) which I'm shooting for now. This bow is the best feeling bow I have ever shot. Quiet, excellent back wall, dead in your hand , sweet sweet sweet. First shoot with my Obsession --- 1st 208/8 in K45 at RAC today, also leading SOY. You couldn't give me a Hoyt to shoot for free and expect me to shoot it. I'm PRO OBSESSION. Thanks Dennis & Obsession for stepping up to the challenge and making a quality line of bows. Can't wait for next years bows. If you want to end up on top buy yourself an Obsession Bow !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kris87 (Mar 9, 2014)

Oh boy, pass the pom poms....Again.


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## Bow Only (Mar 10, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> I would have to agree.  Here's a quote from the binary man himself, Kevin Strother, on AT from a couple years ago.  I've always remembered it.
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Kevin Strother1
> ...



My patent took less than 2 years and you can even expedite patents for a little more money.

FYI, three tracks are the fastest.


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## SWWTV (Mar 10, 2014)

I personally spoke to Kevin this morning, He said the Two track dual Sycn sytem was smoother as fast, quiet  and easier to tune than the Hybrid .  He said he likes the Two track over the cam and a half  / Hybrids and the Binary Bow tech cam


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## Kris87 (Mar 10, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> I personally spoke to Kevin this morning, He said the Two track dual Sycn sytem was smoother as fast, quiet  and easier to tune than the Hybrid .  He said he likes the Two track over the cam and a half  / Hybrids and the Binary Bow tech cam



He must be able to shim cams faster than he can yoke tune.


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## Bow Only (Mar 11, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> He must be able to shim cams faster than he can yoke tune.


What is yoke tuning?  It's simply changing the tension applied to the limb.  At full draw, both the hybrids and the slaved two tracks will have lean because of the lateral force applied by the cables on the cable rod.  If you have a cable rod/roller guard, you will have lean.  At least that is what Kevin told me.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 11, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> All bows do not have it.....ask Kris87.....my Dominator is straight up from rest to full draw......





Kris87 said:


> It did until I fixed it.



Judging from the way hes shooting, you may need to put the lean back in his cams.  Hes getting left behind.


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## Kris87 (Mar 11, 2014)

Bow Only said:


> What is yoke tuning?  It's simply changing the tension applied to the limb.  At full draw, both the hybrids and the slaved two tracks will have lean because of the lateral force applied by the cables on the cable rod.  If you have a cable rod/roller guard, you will have lean.  At least that is what Kevin told me.



Correct. He also knows on a right handed bow, there's more tension on the right side of the limb tip as the load is transferred to the cables.  On a hybrid with a yoke its very easy to lean the cam counterclockwise at brace(by shortening the left yoke and lengthening the right), so it rotates slightly clockwise during the draw cycle to become straighter.  

So what does all this boil down to many are asking?  Its really simple.  It comes down to how straight of a path the string is taking from full draw as it returns to brace.  The less the strings moves sideways, the better.  No one will debate that(well they might I guess ).  By having a yoke, you are absolutely able to manipulate the string's path so that its more inline with the arrow leaving the bow straight.  That's what we're all after anyway.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 11, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> Correct. He also knows on a right handed bow, there's more tension on the right side of the limb tip as the load is transferred to the cables.  On a hybrid with a yoke its very easy to lean the cam counterclockwise at brace(by shortening the left yoke and lengthening the right), so it rotates slightly clockwise during the draw cycle to become straighter.
> 
> So what does all this boil down to many are asking?  Its really simple.  It comes down to how straight of a path the string is taking from full draw as it returns to brace.  The less the strings moves sideways, the better.  No one will debate that(well they might I guess ).  By having a yoke, you are absolutely able to manipulate the string's path so that its more inline with the arrow leaving the bow straight.  That's what we're all after anyway.



How about the bottom cam ?  They can lean too.


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## Kris87 (Mar 11, 2014)

bowanna said:


> How about the bottom cam ?  They can lean too.



Yep, slightly.  Did I say somewhere they didn't, or are you just trying to learn?

You're too old for all of this old man.  Stick to Alligood jokes.   Sorry, I left out the smilie.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 11, 2014)

I just remember reading somewhere that "you are absolutely able to manipulate the string's path".  
I had to buy new limbs when the bottom cam on my PSE BowMadness leaned bad enough to derail on let down. 
I may be old but I'm more handsome than you and Allibad and I'm almost 60.


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## Kris87 (Mar 11, 2014)

bowanna said:


> I just remember reading somewhere that "you are absolutely able to manipulate the string's path".
> I had to buy new limbs when the bottom cam on my PSE BowMadness leaned bad enough to derail on let down.
> I may be old but I'm more handsome than you and Allibad and I'm almost 60.



You can manipulate the string path.  You had a limb issue, not a problem with the cam system.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 11, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> You can manipulate the string path.  You had a limb issue, not a problem with the cam system.


I could've taken the cam lean out with a yoke on the bottom. I'm just saying you can only do so much with the top yoke.


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## Kris87 (Mar 11, 2014)

bowanna said:


> I could've taken the cam lean out with a yoke on the bottom. I'm just saying you can only do so much with the top yoke.



I see what you're saying.  But if you have a weak limb, you wouldn't want to band-aid it with any type of tuning method, yoke tuning included.  You basically want new limbs.

Assuming you have a proper set of limbs, yoke tuning has a big effect on the string's path, and thus the arrow's flight.  Anyone that has shot enough bareshafts at distance knows that even a half twist on a yoke can make an arrow move a looooong way.


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## BowanaLee (Mar 11, 2014)

I see what your saying and I agree it gives you an extra place to adjust.  
Theres been a heap of happy customers go out the door with a week limb that had a few twists put on one side of the yoke.
In one way the dual track may have an advantage to the owner. When he gets cam lean he'll go out the door with new limbs supplied by a warranty and not a band-aid yoke twist. I'll get off my podium now and let the big dogs run.


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## The Arrow Guru (Mar 11, 2014)

Not nearly as critical as this thread would have you believe. When you guys are all done with your "I know more about cams than you do" conversation, go out and shoot your bow.......


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## Kris87 (Mar 12, 2014)

BIGRNYRS said:


> Not nearly as critical as this thread would have you believe. When you guys are all done with your "I know more about cams than you do" conversation, go out and shoot your bow.......


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## Taylor Co. (Mar 12, 2014)

bowanna said:


> I see what your saying and I agree it gives you an extra place to adjust.
> Theres been a heap of happy customers go out the door with a week limb that had a few twists put on one side of the yoke.
> In one way the dual track may have an advantage to the owner. When he gets cam lean he'll go out the door with new limbs supplied by a warranty and not a band-aid yoke twist. I'll get off my podium now and let the big dogs run.



Very Good Points!
Byron, I shoot plenty. I work in the industry, as do you..I just don't get to shoot mine very much


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## Bow Only (Mar 12, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> I would have to agree.  Here's a quote from the binary man himself, Kevin Strother, on AT from a couple years ago.  I've always remembered it.
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Kevin Strother1
> ...



This kind of bothered me so I called this morning and talked to Kevin.  He told me this was the exact opposite of what he said.  Like Dennis previously stated, he prefers the two track over the hybrids.


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## Kris87 (Mar 12, 2014)

Bow Only said:


> This kind of bothered me so I called this morning and talked to Kevin.  He told me this was the exact opposite of what he said.  Like Dennis previously stated, he prefers the two track over the hybrids.



I pulled the quote directly off AT where he stated it.  If he doesn't believe that anymore, so be it.  Its his direct quote.  Kevin is certainly afforded the right to change his mind whenever he wants or suits.


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## SWWTV (Mar 12, 2014)

What do you with a yoke only on one end of the bow. I know only Half Of You Troubles will be over just saying.


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## Kris87 (Mar 12, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> What do you with a yoke only on one end of the bow. I know only Half Of You Troubles will be over just saying.



That's easy.  I use it to make the string give me the straightest path possible to give me clean arrow flight at a proper centershot.  I never said I use yokes to make the cams 100% straight.  Never.  On all my bows, they have very, very small amounts of lean at full draw.  And they have very small amounts at brace.  

Look, I realize you guys(OB bandwagon) are smart enough to know how yokes work, and how moving axles around with the limb tips affect arrow flight.  And how useful that is as a tuning tool.  I know you know bow mechanics.  You want to say its trouble, its not.  Its a very widely used method to tune, and some bows have that ability, some don't.  We all know your's does not, and that is absolutely fine.  You decided to go with an alternate, proven cam system, and that's great.  But for you to say a hybrid with a yoke is more trouble to tune than a bow that doesn't even have that capability is funny.  

I'm here all day.


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## Kris87 (Mar 12, 2014)

Next we're gonna here a Bowtech with ODB system is twice as hard to tune as a two track because it has....wait a minute....two yokes.  Oh no!


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## Kris87 (Mar 12, 2014)

One thing that I want anyone to know that's following the thread is I'm certainly not bashing ANY brand of bow.  I simply answered the OP's original statement.  I always encourage archers to understand their equipment, how it works, and it will make them better shooters in the long run.  I'm not here just spewing info I read somewhere.  I'm giving info I've tested, on a lot of different bows, and consistent results I've seen.  For the most part, bows all operate in very similar fashion.  Some cam systems have traits that others do not.  I love Hybrids, they have downward nock travel.  I wish they didn't.  Dual cams don't have that.  They tend to have more lateral issues.  Everything's a tradeoff.  

But in regards to this thread, and cam lean, and how the bow reacts, I'll say this.  I say just test it yourselves.  Take a Hoyt, or Bowtech, or Bear...any bow you have control over the cam orientation and set the recommended centershot.  Then use the yokes to make the cams straight at brace.  Then shoot it.  I guarantee you it won't tune there.  It won't.  The cams will be leaning right at full draw, which makes the string move left, which will make the back of the arrow move left, and your arrow move right downrange.  

Now go back, leave the centershot alone, give the cams some lean at brace, they will rotate almost straight at full draw, and watch what happens.  All I've ever said is if you remove that variable from your tuning repertoire, then you're left with tuning with the rest, cable guard, or shimming the cams.


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## alligood729 (Mar 12, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> Your eggs must suck.  Try scrambling some yolks to see how you like them.





pasinthrough said:


> That's what I get for typing when I have a blood clot in my vane...



The only reason mine shoots so good is that the spline of my arrows is correct.....I just wish I could shoot it...



SWWTV said:


> yep if I would have had 250,000.00 to dish out it would have been our bows. Oh I did have a guy shoot 26 up and won third in one of the classes dang I didn't pay him I got to tighten up.



26 up is great! I remember a novice that shot 32 up with one of them hybrid cam bows....must have had the lean just right on that one. Now if he could just remember how to shoot...


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## Tank1202 (Mar 12, 2014)

My cams leans waaaaaayyyyyyyy back and when I press the release they go foward real fast like. This stick with a sharp arrowhead on it goes flying out and sticks in what I was pointing it at. This is the cam lean I think we all enjoy!


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## SWWTV (Mar 13, 2014)

Tuned a a bow with double yokes the other day set it up with no lean at rest and it had major lean at full draw. Results no bullet hole so I put lean in at rest and it bullet holed. In my opinion two tracks are simple to tune no bandaids to cover up weak limb issues. More and more archers are buying two tracks or at least leaning in that direction. Did I say leaning shoot one you might buyone and maybe it will come with pom poms.


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## Kris87 (Mar 13, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> Tuned a a bow with double yokes the other day set it up with no lean at rest and it had major lean at full draw. Results no bullet hole so I put lean in at rest and it bullet holed. In my opinion two tracks are simple to tune no bandaids to cover up weak limb issues. More and more archers are buying two tracks or at least leaning in that direction. Did I say leaning shoot one you might buyone and maybe it will come with pom poms.



I'm with ya!

You woulda loved this one then Dennis.  It had almost no lean at brace, and ZERO at full draw.  It was easy.  Try one....when no one's looking of course.


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## SWWTV (Mar 13, 2014)

Man that looks like trick photography. I need to ask Bow Only he is the expert.


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## Kris87 (Mar 13, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> Man that looks like trick photography. I need to ask Bow Only he is the expert.



  That's the rumor!!


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## Onlybow (Mar 14, 2014)

Kris87  

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Watkinsville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback

One thing that I want anyone to know that's following the thread is I'm certainly not bashing ANY brand of bow. I simply answered the OP's original statement. I always encourage archers to understand their equipment, how it works, and it will make them better shooters in the long run. I'm not here just spewing info I read somewhere. I'm giving info I've tested, on a lot of different bows, and consistent results I've seen. For the most part, bows all operate in very similar fashion. Some cam systems have traits that others do not. I love Hybrids, they have downward nock travel. I wish they didn't. Dual cams don't have that. They tend to have more lateral issues. Everything's a tradeoff. 

But in regards to this thread, and cam lean, and how the bow reacts, I'll say this. I say just test it yourselves. Take a Hoyt, or Bowtech, or Bear...any bow you have control over the cam orientation and set the recommended centershot. Then use the yokes to make the cams straight at brace. Then shoot it. I guarantee you it won't tune there. It won't. The cams will be leaning right at full draw, which makes the string move left, which will make the back of the arrow move left, and your arrow move right downrange. 

Now go back, leave the centershot alone, give the cams some lean at brace, they will rotate almost straight at full draw, and watch what happens. All I've ever said is if you remove that variable from your tuning repertoire, then you're left with tuning with the rest, cable guard, or shimming the cams.



The reason bear and Hoyt use the hybrid currently is because it's cheap to license, that patent expires soon, and the hybrid is old technology, not current or cutting edge, neither company is doing anything not done before in the past 18 years or so the technology has been avaliable  , so when they advertise new bow , they mean cosmetics not cam design. As for yoke tuning when you twist up one leg of a split cable more than the other to make the cam to APPEAR straighter , what you really have done is introduce lean to the limb tip, by twisting one half of a split harness leg more than the other you are appling more pull on one side of the axle and leaning the limb tip and applying more stress and pre- load on that limb side. 
I myself will choose a little. CAm lean over a over stressed leaning limb tip any day. 
The two track slave cam systems are mirror image cams , meaning they not only look similar but the funcion the same, top and bottom cam take up and let out the same amount of cable at the same time, very efficient. 
The hybrid cam system are non mirror image cams meaning they do not funcion the same .or look the same. 
This system basically uses a old style two track dual cam for the top cam and is not a slaved cam. This system uses a slaved 3track cam as the bottom cam , and uses a small module on this cam. 
So the hybrid system uses two totally different cams, two totally different size draw length modules, two totally different cable designs of different length. And all these differences are forced to somewhat work together. Take a circle and a square piece of cardboard of different sizes and roll them on a table evenly and see if thier rate of progression is equal and smooth , 
These are just my opinions but I prefer mirror image cams


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## Kris87 (Mar 14, 2014)

Onlybow said:


> As for yoke tuning when you twist up one leg of a split cable more than the other to make the cam to APPEAR straighter , what you really have done is introduce lean to the limb tip, by twisting one half of a split harness leg more than the other you are appling more pull on one side of the axle and leaning the limb tip and applying more stress and pre- load on that limb side.
> I myself will choose a little. CAm lean over a over stressed leaning limb tip any day.



Soooooo.... it's limb twist, or pre-loaded limbs, that is bad.  Isn't that exactly what's happening here?  It is.  The cables are loading this right upper limb.  Same thing.  You can manipulate it with a yoke.  Not so here.


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## SWWTV (Mar 14, 2014)

Wow I can show you some major can lean on any bow with or with outs yokes, bows with yokes can bandaid limbs issues. The bow that you dug up had a bad limb and if the customer took it to his dealer it was replaced problem solve no manipulating bad lean or covering up limbs issues with a yoke.


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## Onlybow (Mar 14, 2014)

The picture above shows a person  intentionally pulling the string to the right torquing the handle, in order to appear as cam lean.


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## Kris87 (Mar 14, 2014)

Onlybow said:


> The picture above shows a person  intentionally pulling the string to the right torquing the handle, in order to appear as cam lean.



Do you know them?  I can't see their hand.


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## Kris87 (Mar 14, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> Wow I can show you some major can lean on any bow with or with outs yokes, bows with yokes can bandaid limbs issues. The bow that you dug up had a bad limb and if the customer took it to his dealer it was replaced problem solve no manipulating bad lean or covering up limbs issues with a yoke.



You must be onto something regarding the bandaid statement.  I'm beginning to think that's why Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews all use yokes.....you know, to offset quality control issues.  Brilliant on their part.


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## Kris87 (Mar 14, 2014)

Gimme an O....O....Gimme a B.....B (y'all know the rest)


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## Onlybow (Mar 14, 2014)

If you continue to shoot a Hoyt you will be shooting a slaved cam in the future also. Shake your Pom Poms now


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## alligood729 (Mar 14, 2014)

Show me where he said he didn't like Obsession bows.....don't believe he ever said that.


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## alligood729 (Mar 14, 2014)

Onlybow said:


> If you continue to shoot a Hoyt you will be shooting a slaved cam in the future also. Shake your Pom Poms now



Now that's an interesting statement. If I continue shooting my PSEs will I too be shooting slaved cams?


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## waits (Mar 14, 2014)

Short answer is yes it matters. Many people saying it doesn't matter as long as it is not to bad. That means it DOES matter. I have not heard anyone say that a bow would not shoot or tune good with some cam lean but sounds like the majority of the people agree to much is a bad thing. That means it matters!

Also can't figure out what the deal is with all the Obsession references. Are these bows known for cam lean? I shot one at a shop and have to say I thought it was a great feeling great shooting bow. I am a Hoyt fan through and through only because I have killed lots of deer and earned a few dollars and Belt Buckles with them. I however feel that I could have had the same results with a few other type bows. I am not tech savy enough to even debate the differences in cams or tracks or which bow has what but any added tuning capability is a plus to me. If using a yoke to tune is a band aid ( I am not saying it is) and will get me through the season or a hunt until I can get new limbs I will take it.


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## SWWTV (Mar 14, 2014)

alligood729 said:


> Now that's an interesting statement. If I continue shooting my PSEs will I too be shooting slaved cams?


Change or get left behind ,I guess if Hoyt is looking at the Two track then you guys will be leaning in our direction . David you know we have a spot for you and Kris the doors will always be open. Don't get left behind.


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## Kris87 (Mar 14, 2014)

That's it.  I can't take this stress.  I'm switching to Elite.


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## alligood729 (Mar 14, 2014)

Kris87 said:


> That's it.  I can't take this stress.  I'm switching to Elite.


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## Onlybow (Mar 14, 2014)

Good choice


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## SWWTV (Mar 15, 2014)

As long as your shooting a Two Track from Obsession or Elite you won't get left behind. Y'all need to be scouting out some Turkeys gobble gobble. Y'all drop by we can help you both with your tuning a little refresher course.


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## Kris87 (Mar 15, 2014)

SWWTV said:


> As long as your shooting a Two Track from Obsession or Elite you won't get left behind. Y'all need to be scouting out some Turkeys gobble gobble. Y'all drop by we can help you both with your tuning a little refresher course.



Deal.  I'll hunt turkeys with you, but skip the tuning class.  Sounds good.


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