# Why do they try so hard?



## j_seph (May 21, 2018)

I read a post Spotlite made that got me to thinking. If one says he does not believe in God, the bible, Christianity then why not just say they do not believe? Why keep watching videos that discuss God does not exist, how the bible is not real? I mean I do not believe in the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot, or leprechauns. I sure do not spend my time seeking proof that they do not exist. I am comfortable and content to say they do not exist and therefore do not have to try and prove to myself or others that they do not exist. Seems it may bother some that God does exist and they need to keep building up their insecurities so that they can continue to say he doesn't.


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## NE GA Pappy (May 21, 2018)

Because you are 'forcing' your religion on them, and they must fight for the 'truth' to be told to future generations.  What right do you have to 'indoctrinate' the children with your lies?

It is a spiritual battle.  They will never admit it, but it is their own personal war with God.  Just as the serpent, they deny God's authority, and question His existence.  They are not happy to just not believe on their own, but you must be convinced that God doesn't exist also.  That way you have been set free.


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## Artfuldodger (May 21, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Because you are 'forcing' your religion on them, and they must fight for the 'truth' to be told to future generations.  What right do you have to 'indoctrinate' the children with your lies?
> 
> It is a spiritual battle.  They will never admit it, but it is their own personal war with God.  Just as the serpent, they deny God's authority, and question His existence.  They are not happy to just not believe on their own, but you must be convinced that God doesn't exist also.  That way you have been set free.



I can see that aspect of it. They believe they have discovered the truth and it has set them free. They want to share their good news as well as we do.
Just as we believe the world is a better place because of religion, they believe the world would be a better place without religion. If religion had never existed, then there would have been less imperialism and wars. One sect fighting the other, etc.

We recruit, they recruit, and the world religions recruits. Sometimes for faith and sometimes it's just political. I think maybe it's this political connection they hate and see as bad. A bad part of religion that out ways the good. They  see Christianity as just another bad part of religion.

I think what the OP is asking though is why do they keep researching? Watching videos, debates with Christians, etc.? 
Maybe it gives them ammunition. They live in a Christian world, mostly, and have to gain rebuttals to our rebuttals. Ammunition to convince the world to change.


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## j_seph (May 21, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think what the OP is asking though is why do they keep researching? Watching videos, debates with Christians, etc.?
> Maybe it gives them ammunition. They live in a Christian world, mostly, and have to gain rebuttals to our rebuttals. Ammunition to convince the world to change.


On par, if you do not believe why keep seeking evidence to prove what you already believe. As a Christian I believe, I know what the Lord has done for me, my family and others alike. I do not go out seeking information to help me to believe, or information that will make me believe. I do read my bible everyday and pray. Not to keep me believing but to draw closer to him. I have been out of the will of God, I have placed a gap between he and I as well and know how my life went and how I felt. Only when I started drawing nigh to him did things improve. Even when the gap was there I still believed and did not have to seek to keep believing nor to convince myself that he is alive.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 21, 2018)

Be careful how you use the word "They" in this discussion.


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## WaltL1 (May 21, 2018)

j_seph said:


> I read a post Spotlite made that got me to thinking. If one says he does not believe in God, the bible, Christianity then why not just say they do not believe? Why keep watching videos that discuss God does not exist, how the bible is not real? I mean I do not believe in the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot, or leprechauns. I sure do not spend my time seeking proof that they do not exist. I am comfortable and content to say they do not exist and therefore do not have to try and prove to myself or others that they do not exist. Seems it may bother some that God does exist and they need to keep building up their insecurities so that they can continue to say he doesn't.


If you are actually seeking answers to your questions, why don't you just ask the people you are talking about?


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## j_seph (May 21, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> If you are actually seeking answers to your questions, why don't you just ask the people you are talking about?


Out of respect sir, I was asking opinions in here. As not to impose in your room and ask y'all. Maybe I want to post in y'alls room later on to compare answers to help me better to understand seeing the answers/opinons on both sides of it.


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## WaltL1 (May 21, 2018)

j_seph said:


> Out of respect sir, I was asking opinions in here. As not to impose in your room and ask y'all. Maybe I want to post in y'alls room later on to compare answers to help me better to understand seeing the answers/opinons on both sides of it.


Fair enough.


> As not to impose in your room and ask y'all.


You are formally invited to impose and ask any questions you want.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 21, 2018)

It's a discussion forum...... something they find interesting to talk about.


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## red neck richie (May 21, 2018)

j_seph said:


> I read a post Spotlite made that got me to thinking. If one says he does not believe in God, the bible, Christianity then why not just say they do not believe? Why keep watching videos that discuss God does not exist, how the bible is not real? I mean I do not believe in the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot, or leprechauns. I sure do not spend my time seeking proof that they do not exist. I am comfortable and content to say they do not exist and therefore do not have to try and prove to myself or others that they do not exist. Seems it may bother some that God does exist and they need to keep building up their insecurities so that they can continue to say he doesn't.



IMO it is because they can't rule out the possibility 100%. And they are searching for answers. They know their is healing and spirituality involved but when you point to examples they like to deflect and say what about other religions that claim the same? Or its a chemical reaction in the body that made it take place. I don't think it is insecurities as much as searching for answers. In which we all tend to do. IMHO My prayer is that they find what they are looking for.


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## Israel (May 22, 2018)

Every man occupies his assigned place. Some, in their great need of mercy are learning there's a benefit in being made able to see more...by showing more. These are the most selfish people you will ever find. They love the comfort that only mercy and grace provides. They are insatiable in hunger...for the One who shows mercy, and simply cannot be shamed by it.


And then there are others...who simply do not yet know...we are all the same. All, quite insatiable...to a One.

The one who has been made of Himself...bread. If one can find His end, one will find where hunger stops. Let's eat.


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## formula1 (May 23, 2018)

*re:*

Matthew 7:7 
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."

I am glad for these who constantly question for they are seeking something! That alone is enough to be hopeful that one day they just might get to the One they truly can find! 

Isn't that potential end worthwhile to show all the grace and mercy of Christ?


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 23, 2018)

1gr8bldr said:


> It's a discussion forum...... something they find interesting to talk about.



It seems more of an obsession than merely "something they find interesting." Especially for something they do not believe in, never have, never will. 

Maybe if we had more Buddhist on board the landscape would look different over there.


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## Milkman (May 23, 2018)

IMO it is because they doubt themselves


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## gordon 2 (May 23, 2018)

If you rationally assess believers and Christians  at their words and actions then something is not right in the state of Denmark. If you judge them by their fruits according to their values or the values they declare-- they (believers and Christians) fail miserably individually and as societies. 

I personally understand  that the non believers' and 
 the non Christians' ( atheists and agnostics) motivation is essentially a  comment on the society we live in viewed from logical and smart minds--who find issues with today's traditional or status-quo mind sets.

A simpler mind might resume it this way: Does the fact that the so called Holy Spirit being active in  people's lives lead them to sane and wholesome individual and social decisions which are immune of devastating  consequences compared to the decisions of more secular peoples?

The whole notion of "why" people do what they do and say what they say, leads to interests in the bible believing culture of the Sunbelt for example-- and you don't have to be from the Sunbelt to be interested or a believer.

More simply for all the declarations on the love of God, a lot of God believers are fond of hatred and strife and to a non believer this must touch a nerve... and for some more than a passing interest.


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## j_seph (May 23, 2018)

Is there not a difference in "God believers" and "God followers" even though as followers we fail many times? For one to say they believe in God to me just does not cut it to be proclaimed a Christian. If one truly believed in God there would also be a fear of God. That would be my take on that.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 23, 2018)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> It seems more of an obsession than merely "something they find interesting." Especially for something they do not believe in, never have, never will.
> 
> Maybe if we had more Buddhist on board the landscape would look different over there.


 My thoughts on that..... causing me to think even further on the matter is because most the participating Atheist here that I know of, are not life long Atheist. They were once Christian. There may be a few exceptions of which I would like to know, whom were not of the Christian upbringing.  I expect that if they had of been raised Muslim then it might be different. Even though we air out our thoughts here online, I expect that they are not that vocal about being Atheist out in public. In other words, this being a discussion forum invites this type of conversation. And..... we should also look at it from both sides. Christians, by the book, are engaging nonbelievers which means we are equally confrontational. Random thoughts, thinking out loud.... And..... the things that believers state "as fact" disregarding that they should be hard to believe, has a way of causing debate


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## Artfuldodger (May 23, 2018)

1gr8bldr said:


> My thoughts on that..... causing me to think even further on the matter is because most the participating Atheist here that I know of, are not life long Atheist. They were once Christian. There may be a few exceptions of which I would like to know, whom were not of the Christian upbringing.  I expect that if they had of been raised Muslim then it might be different. Even though we air out our thoughts here online, I expect that they are not that vocal about being Atheist out in public. In other words, this being a discussion forum invites this type of conversation. And..... we should also look at it from both sides. Christians, by the book, are engaging nonbelievers which means we are equally confrontational. Random thoughts, thinking out loud.... And..... the things that believers state "as fact" disregarding that they should be hard to believe, has a way of causing debate



You might have hit on something there. Like a reformed smoker.
That and this forum being an avenue closer to home than say a world atheist forum.


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## Argent11 (May 24, 2018)

When i was single over in Israel working i was never criticized or demeaned as a being Christian. I still have a lot of friends over there i talk to almost daily. Well, there was that one time with an Israeli girl that i liked a lot so i asked her out on a date, she said no lol. I got over it. 

Oh well i got over it.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 27, 2018)

Milkman said:


> IMO it is because they doubt themselves



Bingo!,  or very close.  It’s because try as they might, they can’t elude God.  Deny YES, elude NO, for they too are made in his very image.  It’s takes a lot of energy to deny the obvious.


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## Spotlite (May 28, 2018)

j_seph said:


> If one says he does not believe in God, the bible, Christianity then why not just say they do not believe? Why keep watching videos that discuss God does not exist, how the bible is not real?.


 Just speculating but it’s a combination of things. For me, it just comes down to believing or not believing.


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## StriperAddict (Jun 1, 2018)

*Re:*



j_seph said:


> I have been out of the will of God, I have placed a gap between he and I as well and know how my life went and how I felt. Only when I started drawing nigh to him did things improve. Even when the gap was there I still believed and did not have to seek to keep believing nor to convince myself that he is alive.



Off Op, but I'd encourage you to google-get the book "God's Astounding Opinion of You" by Ralph Harris.  
It has helped in my understanding of the benefit of the New Covenant, that there's no longer a gap between Father, Son & Holy Spirit and you.  Yep, no quid pro quo 
like in the old!


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## j_seph (Jun 1, 2018)

StriperAddict said:


> Off Op, but I'd encourage you to google-get the book "God's Astounding Opinion of You" by Ralph Harris.
> It has helped in my understanding of the benefit of the New Covenant, that there's no longer a gap between Father, Son & Holy Spirit and you.  Yep, no quid pro quo
> like in the old!


So are you saying that we cannot get so far out of the will of God that we do not create a gap where we do not hear his voice because we refused to follow it for so long? Are you saying that if we knowingly sin, we do not repent and ask for forgiveness that God will continue to bless us anyways?


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## welderguy (Jun 1, 2018)

j_seph said:


> So are you saying that we cannot get so far out of the will of God that we do not create a gap where we do not hear his voice because we refused to follow it for so long? Are you saying that if we knowingly sin, we do not repent and ask for forgiveness that God will continue to bless us anyways?



The Good Husbandman will bless you more than you know in the pruning of your dead branches. The Good Potter will re-make the marred vessel. The Goldsmith will burn the dross off you.

You will know the One on the other end of that rod...
But you will also know the One who then takes you back up in His "lap".

Nothing can separate us....


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## StriperAddict (Jun 6, 2018)

Welderguy ... great post, thanks!

To answer j_seph ... 

If we understand that we have been made new at the core of our being (new heart, new spirit) and that the Spirit of God dwells in us, then the bigger question might be, why would we want to sin?

Why would we want to do something that is totally foreign to our new nature in Christ?

Many think that as we speak of God's abundant grace that we are sayin "go have a sin field-day!".  Nothing could be further from the truth. Paul addresses this in the end of Rom chapter 5 and especially Rom 6:1-2  ...

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 
2 May it never be! _How shall we who died to sin still live in it?_ 

Religion answers vs 1 with "because God's gonna smite you!" and other separation statements like that.  

But the cross solved our separation for all time and eternity!!!  

Sin has only one wage ... death, and so Jesus died, paying the sin debt forever.  Heb 10:14 ... "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are [a]sanctified."  
Imagine that, Christ perfected you and I in our inner man. He is the author AND the perfecter of our faith, not us.   

So ... notice that the vs 1 question is answered in our new nature. We have died to sin, this is our identity.  We can choose to say no to sin as a result of the cross & resurrection and the "heart surgery" that went with it!  It's not about our human effort, it's about being totally dependent on the life of Christ within us!  A joyful union that no religion can compare with.

Hope this helps.

- Walter


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## Israel (Jun 10, 2018)

To ask "why do they try so hard?" Well, really? (What clock is ticking?)

Why does any man..."try so hard"...why does every man "try so hard"? Seeing the man who didn't "try" to resurrect from the dead...but did...makes it all too plain.

Even as to why ask "why do they try so hard".

What needs "pushback" will inevitably find it in every question about "why are _they_, that way"


I don't approve of "their" cute and clever side bars anymore than those of any other bear approval.

Jesus said "what's that to you?...you, follow me".


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## bullethead (Jun 10, 2018)

Many of you got the answers you are asking straight from "they" a few floors below. Those answers were true yet did not sit well enough because the answers were not what you wanted or needed to hear.
The fact that this convo was started in a pro religious forum that is mainly comprised of believers where non believers courteously stay away from in depth convo backs up what I've said.
You want answers that confirm your bias. The answers are filled with assertions by people who have been told differently elsewhere, yet continue to act as if they have not been told.

Bring it downstairs if anyone wants answers from the sources AGAIN. If not, stay here and talk about it where it is a safer environment.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 13, 2018)

bullethead said:


> Many of you got the answers you are asking straight from "they" a few floors below. Those answers were true yet did not sit well enough because the answers were not what you wanted or needed to hear.
> The fact that this convo was started in a pro religious forum that is mainly comprised of believers where non believers courteously stay away from in depth convo backs up what I've said.
> You want answers that confirm your bias. The answers are filled with assertions by people who have been told differently elsewhere, yet continue to act as if they have not been told.
> 
> Bring it downstairs if anyone wants answers from the sources AGAIN. If not, stay here and talk about it where it is a safer environment.



Woooooooo.   Beware of the spooky trolls  “downstairs.”    They’re sooooo scary.   We believers are soooo grateful for you guys “courteously” avoiding our sanctuary, our beliefs being so fragile and all that;  yada, yada, yada.

The lengths you go to protest something you don’t believe exists.  SMH


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## bullethead (Jun 13, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Woooooooo.   Beware of the spooky trolls  “downstairs.”    They’re sooooo scary.   We believers are soooo grateful for you guys “courteously” avoiding our sanctuary, our beliefs being so fragile and all that;  yada, yada, yada.
> 
> The lengths you go to protest something you don’t believe exists.  SMH


I protest the assertions.
No problem with a god, just it's fans.


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## WaltL1 (Jun 13, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Woooooooo.   Beware of the spooky trolls  “downstairs.”    They’re sooooo scary.   We believers are soooo grateful for you guys “courteously” avoiding our sanctuary, our beliefs being so fragile and all that;  yada, yada, yada.
> 
> The lengths you go to protest something you don’t believe exists.  SMH


Our bad. We thought we were being respectful.
Ask your brothers here if they would prefer -
to be able to discuss their beliefs here without debate from A/As and if they are in the mood to debate they can join us downstairs
OR
If some of them are already getting antsy about A/As joining in these conversations and would prefer the debate be kept downstairs.
We'll go with the consensus.
Brothers of SFD what say you?


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## hummerpoo (Jun 13, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Woooooooo.   Beware of the spooky trolls  “downstairs.”    They’re sooooo scary.   We believers are soooo grateful for you guys “courteously” avoiding our sanctuary, our beliefs being so fragile and all that;  yada, yada, yada.
> 
> The lengths you go to protest something you don’t believe exists.  SMH


The term "troll" had befuddled me for a long time, but a recent experience caused me to try once again to gain some understanding of "what is a troll?"  One thing I found was that my befuddlement was mostly caused by a fast changing and developing meaning over the last several years; but there was much more.

The prompting experience was a statement by a fellow poster that he was enjoying the percieved squirming of the involved believers. (as is so often the case, the perception of indirectness resulted from his lack of knowledge of his chosen subject).  Red flags popped up immediatly and sent me to our source of all things secular, Google.



> "New research shows that internet trolls are, in real life, narcissists, psychopaths, and sadists."
> *
> "These results may not be of much use in curbing trolls online, but it does suggest that trying to stop the behavior by gentle coaching is doomed to fail most of the time."
> *
> ...


There are more articles available about this same study, and more studys with amazingly similar results.

As I have not yet fully evaluated, or received guidance about, this information, I don't know how it will effect my future actions, but, at this point, I do not foresee ignoring it.  I make it available here without claim of validity, or weight.  If the Spirit tells you that it is just more internet clatter, please treat it as such.  I do think that prayer and effort are warranted.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 13, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Our bad. We thought we were being respectful.
> Ask your brothers here if they would prefer -
> to be able to discuss their beliefs here without debate from A/As and if they are in the mood to debate they can join us downstairs
> OR
> ...



The philosophical  assumptions of Athiesm are absurd.  It matters not to me where they take place.  A lie is a lie no matter where it’s espoused.  I just quickly bore of the same old sophomoric Athiest memes.


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## WaltL1 (Jun 13, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> The philosophical  assumptions of Athiesm are absurd.  It matters not to me where they take place.  A lie is a lie no matter where it’s espoused.  I just quickly bore of the same old sophomoric Athiest memes.


The philosophical assumptions of Atheism have zero to do with why we typically stay out of here.
We were trying to be respectful of ya'lls beliefs and you turned it into grade school wooooos, spooky trolls and soooo scary.
So tell me more about your morals given by God.........
Did you think he said "I'm giving out florals" but you are allergic to flowers or something?


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## gemcgrew (Jun 17, 2018)

Israel said:


> To ask "why do they try so hard?" Well, really? (What clock is ticking?)
> 
> Why does any man..."try so hard"...why does every man "try so hard"?


Induction?


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## Israel (Jun 19, 2018)

gemcgrew said:


> Induction?


Induction as related to energy transfer? From one conductor to another?
Energy passing through a field to induce a current in another conductor?!!!!?
Yikes!

The reality of the resurrection from/in One, (and through His conductor..."When He the spirit of truth comes..."...?) passing through some to a rest...while another current flows from one in fury at _the_ truth, causes a fury, and furious striving in _some others_?
(What clock is ticking? The one who knows his time is short and is infuriated by it)

In such manner that even fury _(that is manifest) _solely as opposition...itself testifies to the reality of rest in the resurrection?
So that "we can do nothing against the truth...but for it?"

man...it is good to see you.


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## WaltL1 (Jun 23, 2018)

> Why do they try so hard?





> In the 2014 Religious Landscape Study, self-identified atheists were asked how often they share their views on God and religion with religious people. Only about one-in-ten atheists* (9%)* say they do at least weekly, while roughly *two-thirds (65%) say they seldom or never discuss their views on religion with religious people*. By comparison, *26%* of *those who have a religious affiliation *share their views at least once a week with those who have other beliefs;* 43% say they seldom or never do.*


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## atlashunter (Jul 3, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> The philosophical  assumptions of Athiesm are absurd.  It matters not to me where they take place.  A lie is a lie no matter where it’s espoused.  I just quickly bore of the same old sophomoric Athiest memes.



Yet the three most recent conversations in this forum are dedicated to whining about atheists.


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