# what if....Adam & Eve had not eaten the forbidden fruit



## oldfella1962 (Apr 4, 2022)

Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.

Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


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## buckpasser (Apr 4, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?



Yes. You are in the wrong forum. You don’t believe, right?  That’s what I thought. You’re just a trouble maker, hung up on God, even though you pretend otherwise.  Admins, I’d like to see this thread moved to the proper forum. Thanks!


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 4, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> Yes. You are in the wrong forum. You don’t believe, right?  That’s what I thought. You’re just a trouble maker, hung up on God, even though you pretend otherwise.  Admins, I’d like to see this thread moved to the proper forum. Thanks!


Wouldn't Apologetics make it allowable? I couldn't really find a good explanation of what this forum is for or what is or isn't allowed.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 4, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


Adam had to eat the fruit, it was part of God's plan. The Word was already with God. The only way to eternal life is Jesus, not Adam's works.

But I can see your point about the population.


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## buckpasser (Apr 5, 2022)

Artfuldodger said:


> Wouldn't Apologetics make it allowable? I couldn't really find a good explanation of what this forum is for or what is or isn't allowed.



I’m sure it’s allowable. Just stupid.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 5, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> I’m sure it’s allowable. Just stupid.


Got a thorn caught in your paw?


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## bullethead (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


The story was written after the fact as excuses to try to explain what/why things are rather than an accurate recording of what really was. Religious stories in most cultures always contain an "out" as to why reality doesn't meet the claims.


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## buckpasser (Apr 5, 2022)

WaltL1 said:


> Got a thorn caught in your paw?



No. Just calling a spade a spade.  Obviously I participate here. I read all sorts of God bashing and reply based on what I believe and understand. This thread is just nonsense to another level.


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## 660griz (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Any thoughts?


Well, yea. If there was an actual 'Creator', I would hope it could think things through a little better than what we got. To make humans that multiply, kill each other for resources, get diseases, live on a planet where a majority of it is uninhabitable by humans...by design. I think I could have done better at my first crack at it. God tried twice and still got it wrong.


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## ky55 (Apr 5, 2022)

660griz said:


> I think I could have done better at my first crack at it. God tried twice and still got it wrong.



The second shot was his mulligan.


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## Spotlite (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


I’m not sure I’d be too fond of no human death here. Couple hundred years would be good, though.

We’re inside a belly 9 months, next several months we sleep. After that uo to about two years old we don’t really remember what happened. Then it takes us another few years to go through potty trying, peeing in the bed, accidental skid marks in the Scooby Do drawers until you spend 12 years in school deciding what you want to go to school for 4 more years learning.

By the time you're 22 and kick that career off you’re working 8 hours per day at a minimum. And starting a family with flying tine it seems like you blink and you’re 50 and can count in one hand how many years left to retire but you remember sleeping 8 hours per night and the thought hits you - I’ve slept 1/3 of my life after sleeping the majority of the first 2 years of life……….you only got to play 1/3 of it.

I’d like to lay around in the garden nekid all day for about 75 years without getting put in a straight jacket or tased.

I didn’t think that way until a 90 year old man told me he thought he really lived it up until he realized he’s slept for 30 years of his life.


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

it seems to me (post Adam & Eve) that the only way for a human to be "immortal" is to die first, where you will indeed be immortal whether in heaven or the hot place. 

If God created Adam & Eve to physically walk the earth and never face death - indeed for nobody to ever face death - it wouldn't be sustainable under any circumstances. 

However if God knew Adam & Eve would disobey him, overpopulation would be a moot point anyway. Another thing to think about is Adam & Eve were kind of doomed from the git-go if God knew they would have to mess up for the human species to even function and survive in the long run. 

The more I think it, about the more it seems that the whole story is in no way, shape or form meant to be taken literally. It has to be a metaphor or something to get people to interpret on deeper levels and get more spiritual mileage out of.


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> I’m not sure I’d be too fond of no human death here. Couple hundred years would be good, though.
> 
> We’re inside a belly 9 months, next several months we sleep. After that uo ti about two years old we don’t really remember what happened. Then it takes us another few years to go through potty trying, peeing in the bed, accidental skid marks in the Scooby Do drawers until yiu soend 12 years in school deciding what you want to go to school for 4 more years learning.
> 
> ...



accidental skid marks?   Not in my case - I wanted my laundry washing mom to earn her keep! bear in mind that they didn't have Shout It Out stain remover when I was a tyke!


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> No. Just calling a spade a spade.  Obviously I participate here. I read all sorts of God bashing and reply based on what I believe and understand. This thread is just nonsense to another level.



Nonsense? IMHO it is a valid question/point.


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## 660griz (Apr 5, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> This thread is just nonsense to another level.


Now you know why I avoid all the spiritual forums.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 5, 2022)

If Adam never sinned, there would be no eternal afterlife in Heaven or He11. We would have never got to meet Jesus and go to Heaven. The Trinity would have just been one personage. God would not have needed a son to sacrifice.


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## Spotlite (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> accidental skid marks?   Not in my case - I wanted my laundry washing mom to earn her keep! bear in mind that they didn't have Shout It Out stain remover when I was a tyke!


Mine were not as accidental as I told my Mom. But I did learn not to trust a gas pain…..


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## Spotlite (Apr 5, 2022)

Artfuldodger said:


> If Adam never sinned, there would be no eternal afterlife in Heaven or He11. We would have never got to meet Jesus and go to Heaven. The Trinity would have just been one personage. God would not have needed a son to sacrifice.


I’m looking a little deeper than that. I can understand why this appears to be a spiritual topic; but based on what you’ve said coupled with the failure of man following the lust of his flesh and ultimately being deceived, the Christian can view that as leading to non belief.

So I can see why this topic also belongs here because if the Bible story is true, both believers and non believers were affected / end result of that event.


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## ky55 (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> bear in mind that they didn't have Shout It Out stain remover when I was a tyke!



I don’t remember the early years, but I’m sure glad Shout has been around since I turned 60 or so.


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## bullethead (Apr 5, 2022)

Artfuldodger said:


> If Adam never sinned, there would be no eternal afterlife in Heaven or He11. We would have never got to meet Jesus and go to Heaven. The Trinity would have just been one personage. God would not have needed a son to sacrifice.


Again though, the actions of A&E were Inevitable. Jesus's purpose in the Trinity was to save us. At some point either A&E had to mess up or someone else. God would have known that as much as a God would know I was going to type this out. Jesus was waiting in the BullPen for the call.

To me, it sounds like human interpretations to explain what they think happened up to how they got to that point in their culture rather than an accurate recording of history as it happened.
In those days 40yrs old was old. 90 was extremely rare. 500yr old + is beyond logical.


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

Spotlite said:


> Mine were not as accidental as I told my Mom. But I did learn not to trust a gas pain…..



Okay you learned that when you were a tyke, or recently?   In other words when you get older (I'm 60 so it will only get worse) you really, really need to pay attention to "gas pains" and start heading for the exits, if you get my drift.


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

bullethead said:


> Again though, the actions of A&E were Inevitable. Jesus's purpose in the Trinity was to save us. At some point either A&E had to mess up or someone else. God would have known that as much as a God would know I was going to type this out. Jesus was waiting in the BullPen for the call.
> 
> To me, it sounds like human interpretations to explain what they think happened up to how they got to that point in their culture rather than an accurate recording of history as it happened.
> In those days 40yrs old was old. 90 was extremely rare. 500yr old + is beyond logical.



Yes that 500+ year lifespan was referenced later in the bible that form a certain point on, mankind would go back to a more reasonable lifespan.  I'm going to research the whole insane lifespan idea, it's fascinating! 

*Gen. 6:3  Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”*


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## atlashunter (Apr 5, 2022)

buckpasser said:


> Yes. You are in the wrong forum. You don’t believe, right?  That’s what I thought. You’re just a trouble maker, hung up on God, even though you pretend otherwise.  Admins, I’d like to see this thread moved to the proper forum. Thanks!





buckpasser said:


> I’m sure it’s allowable. Just stupid.



Yeah! We know what you're up to @oldfella1962! Don't go and try introducing critical thinking where it isn't welcome!


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## Spotlite (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay you learned that when you were a tyke, or recently?   In other words when you get older (I'm 60 so it will only get worse) you really, really need to pay attention to "gas pains" and start heading for the exits, if you get my drift.


? ?


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## 1gr8buildit (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


Hmmm, you got a good point to ponder. I have no idea


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## 1gr8buildit (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> Okay today this thought hit me: what if Adam & Eve had never eaten the fruit, and thus never had to die. They could just hang out in the garden (light work no doubt) being fruitful and multiplying. And none of their offspring would die, and so on & so on. Eventually (and it wouldn't take too long) the population would outstrip the garden's capacity to produce enough food. Taken further, the population of the region, then the world, would be ridiculously, dangerously high. Imagine having a pair of typically enthusiastic rabbits that kept pumping out other enthusiastic rabbits that never...ever...died. And their capacity for pumping out rabbits never diminished.
> 
> Granted Adam & Eve did however eat the fruit, and lived for many centuries before they died, and so did their offspring and so on, up until Noah's time at least. That would have created quite an overpopulation problem in and of itself. But having no death, ever, for humans just wouldn't work in the long run. Any thoughts?


I  "seemingly" see so many problems in regards to this story that it makes me want to lean toward allegorical. However, I should factor in that it was written in hindsight,  possibly 2nd hand, possibly generations later...? However, the jist of the story, I believe to be accurate. I see it in mankind daily. Eve did not want to be subject to God. She wanted to rival him. To have his praise, power and authority. Mankind wants to be Solomon. Unbridled control. But we have Solomon as an example of how that offers no joy.


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## NCHillbilly (Apr 5, 2022)

1gr8buildit said:


> I  "seemingly" see so many problems in regards to this story that it makes me want to lean toward allegorical. However, I should factor in that it was written in hindsight,  possibly 2nd hand, possibly generations later...? However, the jist of the story, I believe to be accurate. I see it in mankind daily. Eve did not want to be subject to God. She wanted to rival him. To have his praise, power and authority. Mankind wants to be Solomon. Unbridled control. But we have Solomon as an example of how that offers no joy.


God designed her. He could have made her any way he desired. He made her vulnerable, so he could play with her and punish her for acting exactly like he designed her to. And condemn all her descendents to burn in  

God is the moral equivilant of a small child pulling the wings off of flies to watch them spin and suffer.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 5, 2022)

Another point to consider is that Creation is Israel and Adam was the first Jew thus why he was in Covenant with God. No other group of men were in covenant with God at the time Israel was created.
If you look at that group in Romans 1, it makes more sense that creation was Israel as they knew and worshiped God. They exchanged that worship for that of idols just as Israel did in other references.


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## oldfella1962 (Apr 5, 2022)

Artfuldodger said:


> Another point to consider is that Creation is Israel and Adam was the first Jew thus why he was in Covenant with God. No other group of men were in covenant with God at the time Israel was created.
> If you look at that group in Romans 1, it makes more sense that creation was Israel as they knew and worshiped God. They exchanged that worship for that of idols just as Israel did in other references.



I have heard a theory like this before. The basic gist of what I read was that was that Adam & Eve weren't the first humans, just the first humans that really mattered.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 5, 2022)

oldfella1962 said:


> I have heard a theory like this before. The basic gist of what I read was that was that Adam & Eve weren't the first humans, just the first humans that really mattered.


I wouldn't exactly put it that way. They were the first that God chose to show us that we could not keep a Covenant with God. The failing of Adam's Covenant paved the way for one with Abraham and the Jews. They failed to keep those as well. This in turn showed the world and opened the doors to Salvation from Jesus which was really the only way to begin with.


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## bullethead (Apr 6, 2022)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wouldn't exactly put it that way. They were the first that God chose to show us that we could not keep a Covenant with God. The failing of Adam's Covenant paved the way for one with Abraham and the Jews. They failed to keep those as well. This in turn showed the world and opened the doors to Salvation from Jesus which was really the only way to begin with.


The history of it all seems to include a lot of Do Overs, then excuses as to why the mess ups were blessings.
How long do we go with the latest saga until it runs it's course and then onto the "Jesus had to postpone his promises in order for Stanley to take over" chapter?
It all sounds like constant positive spins on failures to deliver.


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## Israel (Apr 6, 2022)

You take God out of the equation. But, how could you not?

You advance a proposition "If a fundamental thing was different..." and then presume that all else would yet be consistent with how you perceive things according to the thing you have dis-annulled by that fundamental difference.

It's like saying (in the natural)  "if there was no gravity...wouldn't we all fly off into space"...as though "if there were no gravity" any "we" would be here.


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## bullethead (Apr 6, 2022)

Israel said:


> You take God out of the equation. But, how could you not?
> 
> You advance a proposition "If a fundamental thing was different..." and then presume that all else would yet be consistent with how you perceive things according to the thing you have dis-annulled by that fundamental difference.
> 
> It's like saying (in the natural)  "if there was no gravity...wouldn't we all fly off into space"...as though "if there were no gravity" any "we" would be here.


The quote/reply feature would make it much easier to know who you mean when you start a post with "You".

All anyone is doing is taking one more god out of an equation than you do.
In doing so, the only effect is that stories change. No reality is altered.


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## Israel (Apr 6, 2022)

bullethead said:


> The quote/reply feature would make it much easier to know who you mean when you start a post with "You".
> 
> All anyone is doing is taking one more god out of an equation than you do.
> In doing so, the only effect is that stories change. No reality is altered.


It was a reply to OP.

Read it again. The OP.


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## bullethead (Apr 6, 2022)

Israel said:


> It was a reply to OP.
> 
> Read it again. The OP.


Ahhh, yes! Post #34 made it clear.


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## 1gr8buildit (Apr 6, 2022)

NCHillbilly said:


> God designed her. He could have made her any way he desired. He made her vulnerable, so he could play with her and punish her for acting exactly like he designed her to. And condemn all her descendents to burn in  View attachment 1144753
> 
> God is the moral equivilant of a small child pulling the wings off of flies to watch them spin and suffer.


I can't refute that viewpoint. I see so many "seemingly" problems referring to the topic at hand.  Not wanting to look like an opposition to God, I refrain from trying to point them all out. So, I call it "seemingly" . But, I will point out a few. If the garden of eden was such a great place, a place we all would want to be... what was the devil doing there? It also seemingly looks like God messed up when he created man as vulnerable to temptation... and then allowed temptation. I could go on and on. However, I still am not shaken in my faith because my faith is not based on the inerrancy of the bible.


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## atlashunter (Apr 6, 2022)

Ya know if I have a question about the contents of a book and I have a personal relationship with the author I just ask the author and get the correct answer. Why can't christians do that?


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## ky55 (Apr 6, 2022)

atlashunter said:


> Ya know if I have a question about the contents of a book and I have a personal relationship with the author I just ask the author and get the correct answer. Why can't christians do that?



They do.
He just gives all of them different correct answers.


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## ambush80 (Apr 11, 2022)

ky55 said:


> They do.
> He just gives all of them different correct answers.



That could be interpreted as being sublime.


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## Spotlite (Apr 14, 2022)

ky55 said:


> They do.
> He just gives all of them different correct answers.


Different answers doesn’t mean all are correct answers.


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## Israel (Apr 16, 2022)

ambush80 said:


> That could be interpreted as being sublime.


It is.


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## Israel (Apr 16, 2022)

NCHillbilly said:


> God designed her. He could have made her any way he desired. He made her vulnerable, so he could play with her and punish her for acting exactly like he designed her to. And condemn all her descendents to burn in  View attachment 1144753
> 
> God is the moral equivilant of a small child pulling the wings off of flies to watch them spin and suffer.






> God is the moral equivilant of a small child pulling the wings off of flies to watch them spin and suffer.



You say that as though it's a bad thing. 

(am I wrong?)

But, how do you know?


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## bullethead (Apr 16, 2022)

? for the bible tells us so..?


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## Spotlite (Apr 16, 2022)

NCHillbilly said:


> God designed her. He could have made her any way he desired. He made her vulnerable, so he could play with her and punish her for acting exactly like he designed her to. And condemn all her descendents to burn in  View attachment 1144753
> 
> God is the moral equivilant of a small child pulling the wings off of flies to watch them spin and suffer.




Analyzing Him might be a little safer if you knew without a doubt that He wasn’t there, but in doing so, I guess it helps. Kind of like “I didn’t get a bite so there’s no fish in this pond”…….


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## Israel (Apr 16, 2022)

bullethead said:


> ? for the bible tells us so..?


I don't know, was that a response to my question?


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