# Glock 29 (10MM) or Ruger SP101 (357)



## cddogfan1

I am wanting to get a smaller carry gun that I can carry concelled and could double as a good woods side arm also.  I have basically narrowed it down to the Glock 29 in 10mm and the SP 101 in 357.  I have always been a relolver guy but he more I read on the 10mm the more I lean to the Glock.  I know there are some 10 mm fans here.


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## ATLRoach

Do you reload and like to mod guns? If the answer is no then get the SP101. The 29 will need a good replacement barrel w/ a supported chamber to reload the shot brass and shoot casts bullets.

This is coming from someone that shoots and carries a modded G29


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## HandgunHTR

If you plan on hunting with it at all then the 357 gets the nod.  I know that that isn't the popular convention, but here is a comparison of typical handgun loads that are using for hunting.

Check out the difference between the 180 grain 357 loads and the 180 grain 10mm loads.


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## Wiskey_33

What barrel length are the rounds in the chart above fired from?


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## HandgunHTR

They are from the Federal website, so I would probably bet 6" for the .357 and 4" for the 10mm


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## 7MAGMIKE

HandgunHTR said:


> They are from the Federal website, so I would probably bet 6" for the .357 and 4" for the 10mm



Sounds like an apples to oranges comparison to me, I would like to see the 10mm with a 6" barrel.  I bet not much diffrence.  I shoot my G20 with a Lone Wolf 6" barrel for hunting.


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## Steve762us

The previously provided info for the 10mm is for the mid-range, low power "FBI Load"--it basically emulates the performance of the .40 S&W.  

For full performance loads, check the numbers here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto

Note that those numbers are for a 4.6" barrel. "For a 6 inch barrel, add 100 fps."

The 10mm will knock the .357 in the dirt, six ways to Sunday, aside from the low power load.  It's up in the 41 Mag range.


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## Wiskey_33

Having owned both, shooting full house loads from the Ruger isn't too bad, nor is it pleasant. I'd never consider a snub nosed pistol to be a good hunting platform. Not saying the base 29 is either, but having the option of a longer barrel on the 29 is nice, as is the capacity for when you're carrying. With the Ruger, you're stuck with 5 rounds and a heavy pistol to boot.

Like Roach said, you can do a whole lot to the 29. The Ruger pretty much stays the same.

My .02


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## HandgunHTR

Steve762us said:


> The previously provided info for the 10mm is for the mid-range, low power "FBI Load"--it basically emulates the performance of the .40 S&W.
> 
> For full performance loads, check the numbers here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto
> 
> Note that those numbers are for a 4.6" barrel. "For a 6 inch barrel, add 100 fps."
> 
> The 10mm will knock the .357 in the dirt, six ways to Sunday, aside from the low power load.  It's up in the 41 Mag range.



From that wiki article

Some commercial loadings are as follows:

.357 Mag: 676 ft·lbf (917 J) for 180 gr (12 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[19] 
10 mm: 750 ft·lbf (1,020 J) for 200 gr (13 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[20] 
.41 Mag: 938 ft·lbf (1,272 J) for 250 gr (16 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[21] 
The 10 mm load given is about maximum for SAAMI established pressure levels, while the .357 and especially the .41 Magnums are commonly handloaded to significantly higher levels than these samples.


The loads listed are DoubleTap commercial ammo (from the footnotes).  And they are not apples to apples.  Of course a 200 grain bullet at 1300 fps (10mm load) is going to have more energy than a 180 grain bullet at 1300fps (the 357 load).  Physics doesn't lie.

Also, you are not going to get a 100 fps increase in velocity for a 1.4" increase in barrel length.

And lastly, the SAAMI max pressure for the 10mm is 37500psi.  The SAAMI max pressure for the 357 mag is 44000 psi.  So, if I can push the same weight bullet with more pressure, it is going to go faster and therefore have more energy.  Once again physics doesn't lie.

So in summary, the 10mm will not "knock the .357 in the dirt" at all.


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## cddogfan1

Thanks for the info guys.  I do not currenty reload but am planning on statting soon.  AtlRoach is it your opinion that a G29 only preforms good with handloads and mod work.  I was under the impression there were a fair amount of good factory loads for the 10mm.  As far as modding the gun thats not a big deal most anything I have has had something done to it .  Even with the comments given here I still feel my self leaning more towards the Glock 29.  Roch you got pics and a list of mods to your 29.


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## Steve762us

HandgunHTR said:


> From that wiki article
> 
> .  Once again physics doesn't lie.
> 
> So in summary, the 10mm will not "knock the .357 in the dirt" at all.



No, physics doesn't lie.  Cherry picking figures is misleading, though. Pushing the same weight bullet faster, from a shorter barrel...who calls that less powerful?

When you look at CUP, you need to remember the 10mm is a larger case.  Lower pressure in a higher case doesn't mean the round is less powerful than a .357, and it it's not.

For .357 equivalent in a auto, check the .357 Sig. It's a necked down .40 S&W case.


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## HandgunHTR

Steve762us said:


> No, physics doesn't lie.  Cherry picking figures is misleading, though. Pushing the same weight bullet faster, from a shorter barrel...who calls that less powerful?



You are correct.  Cherry picking figures is misleading.  If you compare a full power .357 load with a full power 10mm load, using the same bullets and the same barrel length, the .357 is going to push that bullet faster.



Steve762us said:


> When you look at CUP, you need to remember the 10mm is a larger case.  Lower pressure in a higher case doesn't mean the round is less powerful than a .357, and it it's not.



Case volume has nothing to do with it.  If you look again the pressures I have quoted are in PSI, not CUP.  Pressure is what pushes the bullet down the barrel.  The higher the pressure the faster that bullet is going to move.

Also, please don't get the impression that I am just pulling information off the internet with no real-life information to back this up. 

I have done quite a bit of testing with all sorts of handgun ammunition in various handgun and have load data and velocity numbers (actually chronoed) for the .357 and the 10mm.


Now as has been pointed out by Whiskey that the benefit of the Glock is you can customize it and add a ton of different things to it.  With the Ruger you are pretty much limited to changing the grips and scoping it.  Brass is easier to find after you shoot it, though.


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## golffreak

Can't speak for the Glock 29 but I have a 10mm in the Glock 20 and can tell you from experience that it will easily kill a deer or hog. I have nothing but good things to say about a 10mm.


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## Junior_357

Slightly off topic...but not exactly.  Why not get the best of both worlds and get a 10MM revolver?

The S&W 610 is out there...and the 6" barrel variety are not the most desirable due to IDPA rules...making them slightly cheaper than their 4" counterparts.

I've shot my friend's 310 (scandium-frame, not stainless like the 610), and it was a lot of fun.

That being said...I'm a revolver fan, and a .357 fan as well.  No 4-4.5" barrel 10MM is going to come close my 8-3/8" barrel .357 in either muzzle velocity or energy...so the argument is moot for me.


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## nickE10mm

GUYS GUYS GUYS   

I think what's important here is that the OP wants a good carry pistol that could double as a "woods-gun".  I don't think splitting hairs with the ".357 Mag vs 10mm Auto" is of too much value since, for the MOST part, the two calibers are in the same APPROXIMATE range of power.  Since the OP isn't using this for a primary hunting weapon, it probably won't make a difference as both calibers, in their FULL POWER loadings, will handle the role just fine. 

Lets also keep in mind, however, that, while the *energy* numbers for the .357 will oftentimes be higher than the 10mm, energy isn't everything, especially when we're talking about handgun hunting.  Penetration (a factor of momentum) is far more important.  There are advantages to both calibers.  The .357 benefits from a smaller diameter bullet which means that, for the same WEIGHT bullet, its sectional density will be higher.  Sectional density = penetration.  For a weapon for hunting only, the .357 will often have the advantage due to sectional density.  This is also assuming we're talking about a 6-8" revolver barrel, not a snub nosed SP101.  On the other hand, the full power 10mm (out of, sayyy, a 5" 1911) will launch a 180gr bullet at 1350-1400 fps or a 200gr bullet at 1300.  There are even 10mm loads from DT that go to 215 and 230gr in weight.  Bigger bullets at higher velocity.  Momentum creates penetration.  

Anyways, we could all talk ballistics forever about this but the important part is, for a dual purpose carry and woods weapon, which is the best pistol?  In my mind, the answer is obvious: the Glock 29.  My G29 will keep 5 shots in 4" at 50 YARDS and is stone cold reliable.  Assuming my DT 200gr WFN Beartooth flat nosed loads get 1300 from a 4.6" G20 barrel, I'm getting around 1150-1200 fps from my 3.8" G29 barrel... remember, this is with a 200 gr load.  I also get 1500 fps from a 135gr load and 1275fps from a 180gr load.  

Then again, if you simply prefer a revolver you could go that direction but I don't see where you "advantage" would be since its not an obvious or even definite *caliber* advantage.

Let us know and good luck!

Here's my G29


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## cddogfan1

nickE10mm said:


> GUYS GUYS GUYS
> 
> I think what's important here is that the OP wants a good carry pistol that could double as a "woods-gun".  I don't think splitting hairs with the ".357 Mag vs 10mm Auto" is of too much value since, for the MOST part, the two calibers are in the same APPROXIMATE range of power.  Since the OP isn't using this for a primary hunting weapon, it probably won't make a difference as both calibers, in their FULL POWER loadings, will handle the role just fine.
> 
> Lets also keep in mind, however, that, while the *energy* numbers for the .357 will oftentimes be higher than the 10mm, energy isn't everything, especially when we're talking about handgun hunting.  Penetration (a factor of momentum) is far more important.  There are advantages to both calibers.  The .357 benefits from a smaller diameter bullet which means that, for the same WEIGHT bullet, its sectional density will be higher.  Sectional density = penetration.  For a weapon for hunting only, the .357 will often have the advantage due to sectional density.  This is also assuming we're talking about a 6-8" revolver barrel, not a snub nosed SP101.  On the other hand, the full power 10mm (out of, sayyy, a 5" 1911) will launch a 180gr bullet at 1350-1400 fps or a 200gr bullet at 1300.  There are even 10mm loads from DT that go to 215 and 230gr in weight.  Bigger bullets at higher velocity.  Momentum creates penetration.
> 
> Anyways, we could all talk ballistics forever about this but the important part is, for a dual purpose carry and woods weapon, which is the best pistol?  In my mind, the answer is obvious: the Glock 29.  My G29 will keep 5 shots in 4" at 50 YARDS and is stone cold reliable.  Assuming my DT 200gr WFN Beartooth flat nosed loads get 1300 from a 4.6" G20 barrel, I'm getting around 1150-1200 fps from my 3.8" G29 barrel... remember, this is with a 200 gr load.  I also get 1500 fps from a 135gr load and 1275fps from a 180gr load.
> 
> Then again, if you simply prefer a revolver you could go that direction but I don't see where you "advantage" would be since its not an obvious or even definite *caliber* advantage.
> 
> Let us know and good luck!
> 
> Here's my G29



Thanks.  You are right in the intent of the original post.  I see both calibers as reletavely the same and I can read a ballistic chart.  I find my self leang towards the G29.  The only reservation that is keeping me from making the leap is the 357 / 38 ammo advalibality and selection.


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## DYI hunting

How much barrel do you need to get the 10mm up to a good velocity for hunting or good defense.  Does the G29's 3.78 inch barrel do good enough?

Also, where to find 10mm ammo?


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## nickE10mm

DYI hunting said:


> How much barrel do you need to get the 10mm up to a good velocity for hunting or good defense.  Does the G29's 3.78 inch barrel do good enough?
> 
> Also, where to find 10mm ammo?



Here's the deal.... even out of a 3.8" G29 barrel, Doubletap's 180-230gr 10mm loads have wayy more penetration and energy than your average .45ACP load and people take deer with the .45ACP at 15-20 yards on occasion.  The G29's shorter barrel will still allow you to use 180-230gr loads to hunt with but the shorter sighting plane is where your disadvantage will be.  I'd stick with the longest sighting plane you can get if it was your primary weapon.  If its just a backup, the G29 is fine for hunting.  If its very close range, it should be fine.  

On the other hand, anyone using a G29 for their PRIMARY weapon should know that it would be more of a stunt than anything.  You should probably be smart and use something with a higher hit probability as a primary.  

I, myself, use my (5") DW Razorback 1911 10mm as a primary out of my treestand and can consistently make hits in the field out of 40-45 yards.  Just pay attention to your distance limitations and you should be fine.


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## Wiskey_33

DYI hunting said:


> Also, where to find 10mm ammo?



Double Tap Ammo, Buffalo Bore.

I load my own, which is nice. Have about 350 rounds on hand right now, with the ability to load up 600 more.

Make me think, I need more bullets.


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## nickE10mm

Wiskey_33 said:


> Double Tap Ammo, Buffalo Bore.
> 
> I load my own, which is nice. Have about 350 rounds on hand right now, with the ability to load up 600 more.
> 
> Make me think, I need more bullets.



Dang... Makes me wanna get set up to reload


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## Dub

I've found this G20 to be a reliable friend over the years.  I bought it when I hunted in a club that was on the river and loaded with hogs.  Never had the chance to use it on one but it has dispatched numerous snakes and was reassuring as a personal defense weapon on a game management land bowhunt in late October.  It seemed that some punks with bad intentions were hanging around my vehicle when I walked up after an evening hunt.  Switching to a tactical light having the G20 in plain sight was all that was needed.







Check with Double Tap for some outstanding ammo.  They are great to deal with and make some serious rounds for this sweet caliber.

Good luck.


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## Dub

Saw this on Glocktalk and thought it was funny.


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## nickE10mm

Ahh, yes. An oldie but a goodie


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## nickE10mm

BTW, to the OP, I am debating selling my G29 package to fund another project.  Feel free to check it out at any of the listed forums below...

http://forum.gon.com/announcement.php?f=23


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## WTM45

Choose the one you can most successfully make solid hits with.
They are very different in feel.

Neither will help you if you can only miss.
Hits in the right spot count.


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