# warf



## shawn dooley (Oct 1, 2010)

ok guys i have been seeing this on here and got no clue what it is will some one please tell me


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## SOS (Oct 1, 2010)

Shawn, 

A warf is typically an old compound bow riser with Olympic style limbs (ILF) added to make a bow.  Here's a bow Roger loaned me after my elbow went bad and I was trying to shoot left handed.  He painted this riser metallic, but a lot are painted camo.  I'm sure he will jump in...he's the most prolific warf'er that I know in the state.  

And yes...I know...the group ain't great but one of my first as a left...and yes...I know....should have had a shirt on but it was hot...already caught grief for that one.  Cheers.

Steve


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## Barry Duggan (Oct 1, 2010)

I've got a right hand black bear riser and a pair of machined aluminum adapter plates, if anyone is interested.


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 2, 2010)

SOS hit it on the head. I currently own 3 Warfs, and have a couple of risers that I need to convert. I used to make and sell adapter plates that allowed a drop in conversion. If you want the rest of the story on Warfs, let me know and I'll direct you to where you can find it all.

Barry, Have you seen the plate build-a-long that Sam put up??

WA


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## LanceColeman (Oct 2, 2010)

Where the NAME itself came from is a one Mr. BOB GORDON. AKA by his handle on most forums as "Warf". Mr. Gordon is pretty much the pioneer in making the pocket system that replaces the compound limb pocket and replaces it with an ILF system attachment. Hence when he started doing it and it started catching on every one was saying "I  "Warfed" an old black bear" Or "I just "Warfed" my first one." etc etc you get the point.

Alot of people believe Bob is greatly responsible for the new push towards ILF and metal rised hunting recurves these days. I personally am one of those people.

Bob no longer does conversions any longer. So anyone with an original "warfed" bow by the man hisself needs to hang on to it. As no one is going to do it better than the originator himself...... and Bob is not good........  Bob is GREAT people.


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 2, 2010)

Lance, I am one of those fortunate few to have one. It was gifted to me by a great friend. It is what I am hunting with at this time, and will continue to do so untill I bloody it up a bit.

Your right about something else, Mr. Gordon IS a great man indeed. 

WA


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## hogdgz (Oct 2, 2010)

They are great shooting bows, actually I have one for sale if anyone is interested.


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## kirby999 (Oct 2, 2010)

Anybody know if an old PSE Machflite4  riser will make a decent warf  .? I've got one I've been staring at ever since I read about warfing . Who can make me some limb plates ?  kirby


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## LanceColeman (Oct 2, 2010)

hogdgz said:


> They are great shooting bows, actually I have one for sale if anyone is interested.


 watcha got on it Chase and what riser didja use?? ol black bear??

I gotta bow for sale as well I need to get off of so I can buy some other stuff


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## RogerB (Oct 2, 2010)

I have been fooling with WARF bows for awhile, the folks above are correct, Bob Gordon started the concept, and actually named them after his Boxer dog Warf. Anyone that has one of the bows he did probably has a sticker on it with a picture of his dog.
Lance, Chase's bow is a Black Bear Riser with Kap carbon woods on it, I built it with my own varaition of adapter plates. 
I presently have 4 WARFs (one with longbow limbs), 1 Quarf (a warf using non-ILF limbs), 4 WARFs in the works for people, and two more for myself; not counting several I have built for others.
So far they have all been great shooting bows, but the best I think is the one I built for PineNut on a Rambo riser with KAP carbon woods.
What makes WARF so good is the mass and weight of a metal riser, the Olympic quality limbs and tuneability. 
They are certainly not the prettiest bows on the planet, but.... let's just say ugly girls often make the best wives, and that's what makes them beautiful.


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## LanceColeman (Oct 2, 2010)

Dadgummit Rog!! whats up with the KAP carbon woods!?!?! Maaaan.. I was hopin Chase or you one was goona have something with some smokers on it and I wass gonna swipe em to replace the limbs thats on my GMII. But guess what limbs are on my GM II?? YEP! KAP carbon challengers!

Seriously they pretty good lil limbs for the money now aint they?? I was just lookin ta upgrade.. I'm thinking about tradtech Black Max carbons.

KIRBY,

Roger can hook you up with plates. As far as the riser itself?? How long is the riser and how much reflex OR especially deflex does it have (reflex is not always a good thing when you speak of compound reflex risers).

The main question though is how long is it?? ILF type bows usually come in  riser lengths of 15, 17, 19, 21, 23 or 25 inch risers. Keep in mind that even with the shortest of limbs 23 and 25" risers make up 66-76" long bows! 

Now you may have a rise thats 20" or 22" or something along those lines. The good things about it being the length of standard ILF risers is the actual draw wieght and draw length of the limbs will be comparable so you already know about what wieght limbs to buy. Also if the length is close you know what length limbs to buy to obtain a specific bow..

If it's not the same it does not mean it cannot be done. it just means you'll need a custom built string because instead of a standard 62 or 64" long bow you may end up with a 63" long bow.


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## kirby999 (Oct 2, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> KIRBY,
> 
> 
> The main question though is how long is it?? ILF type bows usually come in  riser lengths of 15, 17, 19, 21, 23 or 25 inch risers. Keep in mind that even with the shortest of limbs 23 and 25" risers make up 66-76" long bows!
> ...



The PSE riser is a tad over 23" long . I have  a couple sets of limbs already , mediums ; I could swap out that are on a couple of Tradtech risers . , a 15' Onyx and a 19" Pinnacle  . I like the way the Pinnacle shoots over the Onyx . Probably because of the extra 4" in length , so a 23" riser should make a sweet shooting bow . I have a set of 40# longbow limbs too .  Strings wouldn't  be a problem , I've been twisting my own for about 15+ years now. Thanks for the reply . I'll strip the wheels , limbs & cables off the PSE and see how heavy it is before I decide .  kirby


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## pine nut (Oct 2, 2010)

T have to say that once I started shooting "Roger's Bow"  I fell in love with it!   It shoots where I'm looking and everybody else says the same thing.  Roger is getting a lot of work from my letting others shoot her.  I'm gonna have to start asking fer a kick back!  Naw, I really glad to help 'em all out.  It is smooth and quiet as well.


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 2, 2010)

Yuppers, aint nothing like them is there??

WA


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## shawn dooley (Oct 2, 2010)

can you buy the conversion plates or how hard are they to make


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 3, 2010)

Shawn, I used to sell conversion plates. Right now I dont have any and I am re designing them. There is a build a long on another forum on another site. I dont like posting links to other sites, but if you want the link, PM me.

From what I know, they are not hard to make at all. You just have to be anal about your measurments to get it all lined up.

WA


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## RogerB (Oct 3, 2010)

Lance,
I have Hoyt Carbon foams on my WARFs (except the one I put together with T-REX limbs, just couldn't resist building a bow for $50, and SKY HUNTER SUPREMES on my Quarf, I think my future WARFs I am going with either INNOS or 990CXs. Actually the KAP carbon woods are pretty good limbs for the price, and about as much as most want to put into a set, If they have a riser, they get a complete bow for around $200.


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## LanceColeman (Oct 3, 2010)

Oh snap! Sky hunter supremes. used to have a set of those. actually T supremes on a T supreme riser...... also had a Sky  Conquest with a set of platinum carbons on it. Man Earl could build and design TOP of the food chain bows. I'm trying to sell a longbow right now to get a new set of limbs to put on my GM. should turn that thing in to a smoker.


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## RogerB (Oct 3, 2010)

alt. services archery (in the UK) has some great prices on Innos and 990CXs  right now (about $450, that's as cheap as winex). Their price goes up and down as the exchange rate changes. I wish I had bought some a month ago, would have saved $30 a set.


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## LanceColeman (Oct 3, 2010)

yea I noticed that the other day whilst lookin. I'm pretty sure right now instead of waiting on the right length and right wieght of a particuloar set to become second hand or "settling" for not exactly what I wanted, I'll be getting a set of TT Black max carbs. I can get them hoyt bushings installed and shipped for less than 250


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## shawn dooley (Oct 3, 2010)

are the replacement limbs that 3rivers sells worth buying  to make a WARF


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## Barry Duggan (Oct 3, 2010)

Warped Arrow, if you are BowBender1004 on that other site, the adapter plates I have came from you. And, yep I've seen the build a long.

Lance, a black bear riser is 21". Shorts make a 62" recurve.


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## shawn dooley (Oct 3, 2010)

will someone post a pix of the plates please  i dont go to the other site


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## LongBowHunt (Oct 4, 2010)

*I want one*

Can someone make me one of these bows, For less then 200.00. I sure would like to try one.Need about 40 lbs


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## Jake Allen (Oct 4, 2010)

Barry Duggan said:


> Warped Arrow, if you are BowBender1004 on that other site, the adapter plates I have came from you. And, yep I've seen the build a long.
> 
> Lance, a black bear riser is 21". Shorts make a 62" recurve.



Winner!
He's a good guy.


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 4, 2010)

Yuppers, thats me, WA/BB1004.

Jake, Thank you for the kind words, I try. Looking forward to shooting with you again soon.

Shawn, shoot me a PM and I will see what I can do for a pic for you.

Longbowhunt, PM me and we will talk. I personally dont do the conversions or make the plates anymore. I am redesigning them and hope to be up and running again after the first of the year.

WA


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## Barry Duggan (Oct 4, 2010)

Jake Allen said:


> Winner!
> He's a good guy.



He had some fine, well machined adapter plates as well.

WA, while you are in design mode, if ya think about it, conjure up a few with a little more preload, for us folks that don't get the string back to 28".


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## LanceColeman (Oct 4, 2010)

LongBowHunt said:


> Can someone make me one of these bows, For less then 200.00. I sure would like to try one.Need about 40 lbs



Thats highly possible depending on what type limbs you want. (gotta remember you can spend all the way up to a grand on limbs alone if you want to. Hoyt and Yamaha both have some that after shipping and taxes will come in right at 10 bills).

But if you willing to do a lil snoopin and maybe find the riser or a second hand or cheap set of limbs yerself?? then I would say it's VERY possible.

In Gawgia I would talk to Roger B. Rogers been makin em a good while now.

Doogy. them ol bear risers gots some goood solid wieght to em. if ya gotty dodgy bow arm?? Thats the riser to cure it.

My GM is a 21" riser. I honeslty like the longer riser with short limbs making a 62" bow. You just can't skimp as much on limbs because that much riser and no more limb than that will tattle tale if ya draw as much as I do.


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## RogerB (Oct 4, 2010)

There are some people out there doing WARF conversions commercially, and they use a method that is very slick. Mine while just as functional and makes just as good a bow, is not as slick. However, If I use the same methods they did, I couldn't build them for my friends for just the cost of materials. With my method, I just don't have much (except labor) above the cost of materials in them. It is not, nor has it ever been, my intent to do this for $, I just like to build them for myself and my friends.

LongBowHunt,
Actually, If you have a riser, yes you can get one built for $200, it won't be with top of the line limbs, but it would be with good limbs. The $200 I was refering to in my earlier post, said "if you have a riser" and was refering to you building it yourself. Then the entire $200 could go into carbon (and perhaps carbon/foam) limbs, now you are talking about a great bow. If you have a suitable riser and you want a name send me a PM. 
Barry,
I shoot BB risers, and I have a very short draw; Hoyt TD-3 risers do have abit more preload and make alittle faster bow for short draw shooters ;the trade off is they are alittle less forgiving (there is no such thing as a free lunch).If I am building a bow for a short draw shooter (on a BB), I have a system to build in more preload. I do this on some of my bows but generally don't on ones I am building for others.

While I don't use Warped Arrows' plates (started building WARFs before he started having them made and selling them) I think they are a great product  (and people that have used them agree) and would recommend them to anyone wanting to build a WARF themselves.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 4, 2010)

Hey, I've got an old Bear Whitetail II laying around here somwhere. Is there a site online where I might find parts to make a warf without breaking the bank?


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## Barry Duggan (Oct 4, 2010)

Yep, Roger B, I recall you taking time to show me your system, and allowing me to shoot a warf, at the state shoot. Thanks again. 
I've learned most things in life are a compromise in one way or another. Bows are no exception.


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## Warped Arrow (Oct 5, 2010)

If anyone wants to shoot a Warf, meet me at Appling....Last year I brough my hunting Warf, this year I am bringing it and another, My Black Beauty (Hoyt ProVantage). The Black Beauty slings an arrow like there was no tomorrow!!!

WA


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## Big Rick (Oct 5, 2010)

What risers work best?  What about Proline risers?


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## Just BB (Oct 5, 2010)

I have a early 90's Pearson Spoiler. Can this be made into a Warf?


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## Shane Whitlock (Oct 5, 2010)

BB, I was told on another forum that you can.....I just picked one up along with a Hoyt pro vantage hunter for free at a pawn shop.He wouldn't let me pay em.....he was glad that someone could finally use em. If you google spoiler warf it should come up.


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## LanceColeman (Oct 5, 2010)

spoilers were extreme reflexed C bows. ya better putta decent set of limbs on her. she's not gonna have any deflex geometry to the riser at all. Should be quick, should have serious preload. may not be the most forgiving warf out there. specially with that brace.


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## shawn dooley (Oct 5, 2010)

explan  PERLOAD   is that a bad thing  but what do u do if the riser is cut way past center   how do you make it more  center shot


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## Dennis (Oct 6, 2010)

Pre load is a good thing and you use a adj. side plate to get you the center shot you want.


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## RogerB (Oct 6, 2010)

Dennis is correct, an adjustable side plate can be used if you want to shoot off the shelf, or you can be a scum-bag (like me) and shoot from an elevated rest (often you have to build the shelf up too, to make it level, because some bows were never designed to be shot off the shelf).

As far as preload, if you had a bow that had enough string follow (the limb tips are behind the handle) that when strung and at rest there was 0 tension on the string, that would be 0 preload, and it would take almost no weight to "start" drawing the bow. On the other hand the more you move the limb tips foward on a bow (when not strung) the more you have to bend them to string it. Preload is the amount of weight it takes to start drawing the bow. 
The reason this is good is three fold: First, if you are shooting a bow with 20# of preload and is 50# at full draw your string is pushing harder aginst the arrow for the full power stroke than a bow with 10# of preload and 50# at full draw, this equals more speed. Second, limbs that have more preload and reach the desired draw weight at your draw length will be lighter than ones with less preload and reach the same draw weight at the same draw length (this is within the same brand and make of limbs), this equals more speed. And third, a bow that has more preload will feel smoother to draw to a certain draw weight than one with less preload, because you are gaining less weight per inch of draw (once again this is within the same brand and make of limbs). This is one of the things that make some risers better for short draw shooters when building Warfs.

If you put a set of 36# limbs on a 21" Black Bear Riser you will get about 40# @28, put the same limbs on a 21" Hoyt Rambo and you will get about 41-42#@28. So to get a 40# bow @ 28 you would use 34# limbs. and even though they are both 40# the Rambo would be alittle faster (the limbs are lighter and will have more preload). How much faster, depends on alot of things, and not that much, but alittle.

I have a short draw, and I still shoot Black Bear risers, I like them and they are still faster than most bows of equal weight.

This is one of the main reasons some risers are better for making Warfs, besides some are just easier to work with.

 Why isn't preload always a good thing (especially for long draw shooters). ILF limbs are made to work best within a certain weight range (amount of bend), it is easy for a long draw shooter to draw them past that range, if they are on a riser with too much preload. This will generally cause the limbs to start stacking and may cause them to fail.

It's kinda like car engines, take a Honda and drive it reasonable and you can't wear it out; but how long do high powered racing motors last (NASCAR drivers HOPE for 500 miles; drag racers HOPE for 1/4 mile), and it is not because they aren't made well, it's the stress they are put under.


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