# all christians are perfect and a tithing story



## emtguy (Jul 4, 2010)

See Job was a perfect man....the bible says Job was a Perfect man and he sinned not with his lips!

Christians are all perfect..God commanded us to be perfect...look at it like a fruit on a tree..at every point in that apples growth it is perfect...from the Bud to the ready to pick fruit it is perfect...even when its the size of a fingernail at that point it is a perfect bud.

Christians are the same way, everyday that you walk the walk you are perfect as long as you are in his will.

Was just thinking about this and figured i would post it!

had a guy tell me a story bout a disscusion he heard at a preachers conference...one minister was talking and said to the other one " You know, if all christians tithed the church would be in alot better...." that was all he said before the other minister cut him off and said " Dear brother, all christians do tithe."

That floored me....what a simple but true statement.

How can folks steal from God and expect to go to heaven? I just dont see god letting theifs in! HAHA


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## crackerdave (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree.When we are truly in Christ,we are made perfect by the blood He shed.
That preacher's right,too - Christians _do_ tithe. Anyone who truly knows God knows that all our blessings - financial or otherwise - come from Him. Annanias and Sapphira [sp?] found out what happens when you try to cheat God.

It is very,very dangerous to ever think that we can fool God.


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## SneekEE (Jul 4, 2010)

I hear folks say the problem with the church today is... blah , blah, blah.There is no problem with the church, the church is perfect. The problem is with those who sit in the church claiming to be a part of the church but are not. The church is the bride of Christ, she is perfect, I would not take kindly to someone talking about my bride in a bad way, dont suppose the Lord does either.


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## crackerdave (Jul 4, 2010)

Amen! 90% of the work in a church is done by 10% of its members.


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## jason4445 (Jul 4, 2010)

God sits in heaven - has no physical needs and if he ever wanted anything all he has to do is create it, yet every preacher tells us God wants our money.

Then according to some we can make a money deal with God, the more money we give God the more God will favor us and reward us with "more money."  Prosperity Gospel.

It reminds me of the joke

A preacher went into his church and he was praying to God. While he was praying, he asked God, "How long is 10 million years to you?"

God replied, "1 second."

The next day the preacher asked God, "God, how much is 10 million dollars to you?"

And God replied, "A penny."

Then finally the next day the preacher asked God, "God, can I have one of your pennies?"

And God replied, "Just wait a sec."


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## SneekEE (Jul 4, 2010)

Jason God only wants the tithes out of those who want to give, not from those who do not. It is a christian thing, it is a honor,privilage to be able to give back.


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## stev (Jul 4, 2010)

Im glad i can do what i can do to give to the church of where i attend .I feel i owe for my life he gave me .its only right for me to do tithing.Its all god no matter how we look at it .


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## jason4445 (Jul 4, 2010)

How do you know what God wants - right out of Jesus mouth came the words you can never know my father's ways - his ways are higher than you ways.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 4, 2010)

emtguy said:


> Christians are all perfect..



I do not agree with this statement.


Something I've often wondered, and this seems like a good place for such a question, is do you tithe before or after taxes?  

Say you make $100,000 annually.  Do you give $10,000 or more like $6,500?  It's a substantial difference, imho.


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## HBC4570 (Jul 4, 2010)

just a true story,it happened to me years ago.the wife and i had
been tithing for some time.i had just gotten a new hunting dog
and the pup was training up real nice.loaded the dog in the truck
and on my way to camp i stopped by the vets for a final look-see
and shots.when i got to camp to put the dog in the pen and went
about my camp duties,unloading,starting supper,etc.
we had a phone in our cabin so i called the wife and was told that
i had forgotten to write the tithe check.i told her that it would be
okay that we could just skip the tithe this payday...well later that
night a neighbor dropped by for some coffee and told us that
someone had hit a dog in the road in front of our driveway.
well sure enough it was my new pup.i buried the dog and went
home a few days later.my wife and i were setting around talking
about my dog.then she asked me how much the vet bill was.
when i told her,she told me that the bill was the exact amount of
our tithe.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 5, 2010)

Do you think paying that money would have kept your dog from getting killed?


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## Israel (Jul 5, 2010)

Give as you have purposed in your heart, not of compulsion...


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## crackerdave (Jul 5, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> How do you know what God wants - right out of Jesus mouth came the words you can never know my father's ways - his ways are higher than you ways.



We know what God wants by reading and studying His Word,and believing in our heart that His way is right and true. We also learn from other Christians who are more mature in the faith - no matter what their physical age is.We also have the Holy Spirit to guide us,if we are willing to learn and listen.


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## Israel (Jul 5, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> We know what God wants by reading and studying His Word,and believing in our heart that His way is right and true. We also learn from other Christians who are more mature in the faith - no matter what their physical age is.We also have the Holy Spirit to guide us,if we are willing to learn and listen.



amen.

Joh 15:15  Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 

Even if we have not heard the Lord tell us that...we know that he speaks it to some...


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## gtparts (Jul 5, 2010)

I believe it is a matter of perspective as to Christians being perfect. Those who are covered by the blood of Christ, God sees as perfect. Is He deceived or does He deceive Himself? No, He sees what we are in Christ, what we shall be when we cast off that last remnant of mortal existence.
But, I have never met any mortal, Christian or otherwise, who was not wrestling with their own imperfection.

Paul tells us in 1 Cor 9:23-25,

23I do all this for the good news, because I want to share in its blessings.

24You know that many runners enter a race, and only one of them wins the prize. So run to win! 25Athletes work hard to win a crown that cannot last, but we do it for a crown that will last forever. 

You know Christians who slack off from time to time. I do. To my shame, I am one of them. Even to the Christian, sometimes just finishing the race seems like enough. Most often, we resume the race, knowing full well that we could have, should have done better.
Stumbling is a part of running the race, my friend. When the Bible says that we are more than overcomers, a lot of what we must overcome is our own poor decisions, our own weaknesses, our own selfishness. How often do we say we need a day off to do this or that? How often do we excuse ourselves from doing what we know to be God's will because we are trying to do everything in our own strength instead of depending on His strength?

Perfect??? Not yet,.......... but one day I will be transformed completely.

Look me up and ask me then!


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## Ronnie T (Jul 5, 2010)

gtparts said:


> I believe it is a matter of perspective as to Christians being perfect. Those who are covered by the blood of Christ, God sees as perfect. Is He deceived or does He deceive Himself? No, He sees what we are in Christ, what we shall be when we cast off that last remnant of mortal existence.
> But, I have never met any mortal, Christian or otherwise, who was not wrestling with their own imperfection.
> 
> Paul tells us in 1 Cor 9:23-25,
> ...


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## crackerdave (Jul 5, 2010)

Sometimes the word "perfect" means _complete_, not flawless, like you would think.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 5, 2010)

Just curious....where is tithing commanded in the Bible?

Anyone have more than just what a pastor says?


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## emtguy (Jul 5, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I do not agree with this statement.
> 
> 
> Something I've often wondered, and this seems like a good place for such a question, is do you tithe before or after taxes?
> ...


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## Ronnie T (Jul 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Just curious....where is tithing commanded in the Bible?
> 
> Anyone have more than just what a pastor says?




Tithing is commanded under the old Law.
If you bring that command to the Gospel, you better bring all the other commands of the old Law along with it.

The subject of required tithing is not to be found in the Gospel.
In the Gospel, giving monetarily is a personal matter between each individual Christian and Christ.  We are instructed to give from the heart, as we have purposed in our heart.  No 10 percent.  Not to build a new building.  But to give because we recognize that it came from God and we need to use it for Gods needs and purposes.

On a personal note.  I believe our giving habits tell us(privately) about our faith and trust in God.


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## Lowjack (Jul 5, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Tithing is commanded under the old Law.
> If you bring that command to the Gospel, you better bring all the other commands of the old Law along with it.
> 
> The subject of required tithing is not to be found in the Gospel.
> ...



I agree, we cannot pick and choose which commandment to keep, the Torah says if you break 1 commandment you have broken the whole law.
Titheing is one commandment what about the other 312 ?


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## gtparts (Jul 5, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Sometimes the word "perfect" means _complete_, not flawless, like you would think.



'Til I see Him face to face, I don't think I will feel complete, even though I may be from His perspective. Could be wrong about that though. I have been before, brother.


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## gtparts (Jul 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Just curious....where is tithing commanded in the Bible?
> 
> Anyone have more than just what a pastor says?





Ronnie T said:


> Tithing is commanded under the old Law.
> If you bring that command to the Gospel, you better bring all the other commands of the old Law along with it.
> 
> The subject of required tithing is not to be found in the Gospel.
> ...





Lowjack said:


> I agree, we cannot pick and choose which commandment to keep, the Torah says if you break 1 commandment you have broken the whole law.
> Titheing is one commandment what about the other 312 ?



I do not see tithing as a law that I am bound to, but rather a good starting point for giving, as illustrated by the OT. There is a freedom in Christ that removes the yoke of the law and allows the joy of being used of God, for His eternal purposes to blossom within us. Doing something that pleases God is not a burden. If it is a burden, pray for His perspective because you are looking at it with a worldly view and it just may be His way of letting you know your priorities are out of whack. God will never place upon you some requirement that He has not already prepared to provide to you. It is a trust issue. Do you trust Him to do as He has promised?


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## Huntinfool (Jul 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Just curious....where is tithing commanded in the Bible?
> 
> Anyone have more than just what a pastor says?



Far as I can tell it is not there (at least not in the NT).  What IS there is the command to give....which can be kind of scary.  10% may not even come close to comparing with what we've been given.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 6, 2010)

It's just funny to me how the OP puts down that 10% is the way to go...gets a bunch of Amen's....then I ask where it is in the Bible and no one can give scripture to back it up....oh...and the Tithe in the OT wasn't 10%...it was closer to 23%.

Just interesting to me...I guess.


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## Randy (Jul 6, 2010)

As has been pointed out, the requirement to tithe is not a requirement of Christians.  What we are required to do is sow seeds for our harvest.  This can mean giving money when a need arises, or helping out in other ways like giving time as well as words.  If you feel the need to support your church and have a place to worship and a pastor to lead you then that is your place to sow your seed.  Without this money a church can not survive so if you want a place to worship you will have to support it.  To many Christians are made to feel they have to tithe to go to Heaven.  If only it was that easy to buy your way into Heaven.  Give as God lays on your heart not as some pastor tells you.  We are not bound by nor judged by the old Laws.  That does not mean the Old Laws are useless.  It is through the old Laws that we know what sin is.  I tithe in some form every day.


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## Lowjack (Jul 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> It's just funny to me how the OP puts down that 10% is the way to go...gets a bunch of Amen's....then I ask where it is in the Bible and no one can give scripture to back it up....oh...and the Tithe in the OT wasn't 10%...it was closer to 23%.
> 
> Just interesting to me...I guess.



Titheing Was 10% , 20 % was the offering for the Levites
Sons Of Aaron of the produce of the Lands which God Commanded since they didn't get a tribal land.
Titheing PRECEEDS THE LAW, Abraham who was not under the Law , tithed 10% of the goods of the spoils of war to the Mysterious Priest Melchizadek in the City of Salem, Later to be Jerusalem.
I believe titheing is legal today if voluntarily done, I have given sometimes 100% of my earnings not just 10% when the church needed it.
And so have many people.
It is said the Founder of the Caterpillar Corporation used to tithe 90% of his earnings.
We have some members that tithe 30,000 a wek and some that tithe 30, they are all blessed in their own ways.
I also Believe giving without expecting.


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## gtparts (Jul 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Titheing Was 10% , 20 % was the offering for the Levites
> Sons Of Aaron of the produce of the Lands which God Commanded since they didn't get a tribal land.
> Titheing PRECEEDS THE LAW, Abraham who was not under the Law , tithed 10% of the goods of the spoils of war to the Mysterious Priest Melchizadek in the City of Salem, Later to be Jerusalem.
> I believe titheing is legal today if voluntarily done, I have given sometimes 100% of my earnings not just 10% when the church needed it.
> ...



LJ, I'm not sure about the C.A.T. reference, but I do know R.G. LeTourneau was in the habit of keeping the tithe and giving the balance to support many Christ-centered endeavors for many years. You can get a pretty good bio online. I'll check the C.A.T. angle. Maybe both gentleman had the spiritual gift of giving.


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## ronpasley (Jul 6, 2010)

Tithe your heart, soul, and mind to the Lord.


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## emtguy (Jul 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> It's just funny to me how the OP puts down that 10% is the way to go...gets a bunch of Amen's....then I ask where it is in the Bible and no one can give scripture to back it up....oh...and the Tithe in the OT wasn't 10%...it was closer to 23%.
> 
> Just interesting to me...I guess.



Im the OP and i would like to see you point out anywhere i mentioned 10 percent....i didnt put a number on what was to be tithed....read before you post.


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## Lowjack (Jul 6, 2010)

gtparts said:


> LJ, I'm not sure about the C.A.T. reference, but I do know R.G. LeTourneau was in the habit of keeping the tithe and giving the balance to support many Christ-centered endeavors for many years. You can get a pretty good bio online. I'll check the C.A.T. angle. Maybe both gentleman had the spiritual gift of giving.



Maybe I confused the Person, I thought it was CAT because my son worked for them and that's who told me, LOL


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## emtguy (Jul 6, 2010)

the owner of cat did die tithing 90 percent and he still died worth millions...he started out tithing 10 percent and as his business grew he increased his tithe.

you cant out give god


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 7, 2010)

emtguy said:


> you cant out give god



What does that even mean?


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## rjcruiser (Jul 7, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Titheing Was 10% , 20 % was the offering for the Levites.



Oh boy....I don't want to get into a debate...err...I mean discussion....with our self-proclaimed OT Grandmaster so I'll just state my thoughts. 

Tithe is another word for Tax.  There were three of them in the OT.  1 10% for the Priests, 1 10% for the Feasts and 1 10% for the poor.  Two of them were annual taxes and one was every 3 years.  Then, on top of that, one was not to harvest the corners of the field...to allow the poor (aka Ruth) to glean from them.  So, you'd have on average, a tax of around 23-25% per year.

Oh...and btw, Abraham wasn't the first to give a "tithe."  It was before the first murder in the Bible (hint hint hint )  I wonder if Abel had just 10 sheep 



emtguy said:


> Im the OP and i would like to see you point out anywhere i mentioned 10 percent....i didnt put a number on what was to be tithed....read before you post.



Ahh....I read it in your post/reply to 6,000,000 ham.  He mentioned the 10%, you mentioned paying based on gross rather than net.



emtguy said:


> you cant out give god





Six million dollar ham said:


> What does that even mean?



Six...
It is a popular expression for those that teach health/wealth prosperity.  The more you give to God, the more you get from God.  In other words, if you want to be rich like the Catepillar CEO, just give a bunch of money to God and you'll be a millionaire.


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## Lowjack (Jul 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....I don't want to get into a debate...err...I mean discussion....with our self-proclaimed OT Grandmaster so I'll just state my thoughts.
> 
> Tithe is another word for Tax.  There were three of them in the OT.  1 10% for the Priests, 1 10% for the Feasts and 1 10% for the poor.  Two of them were annual taxes and one was every 3 years.  Then, on top of that, one was not to harvest the corners of the field...to allow the poor (aka Ruth) to glean from them.  So, you'd have on average, a tax of around 23-25% per year.
> 
> ...



http://www.bibleinsight.com/ti-old-covenant-tithing.html


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## gtparts (Jul 7, 2010)

*C.A.T. info*



The bio for Benjamin Holt, a co-counder of C.A.T. reflects no over-the-top involvement in supporting Christ-centered activities.

Also no info on Daniel Best or his son, C.L. being involved in Christian philanthropy. (owners of the other company merged to form C.A.T.)

Still think some are really writing of R.G. LeTourneau but crediting some other un-named person.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 7, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> http://www.bibleinsight.com/ti-old-covenant-tithing.html



Nice cut & paste.  I can cut & paste as well...but won't go there.

Interesting website....I found one thing that the author of the website put particularly interesting.

"Everyone in the past has always rendered a literal interpretation, but what if God's message is in reality spiritual?!"

Interesting that you'd glean information from a man who wants to interpret the Bible in a spiritual sense rather than a literal sense....allows for one's own opinion and beliefs to be inserted into the text.  



Edit to add the author's credentials.

  Accountancy degree and related experience followed by 12 years
    in the computer arena (Wang VS installations).


    Currently renovating our home and assisting my wife in her
    Family Day Care business.


Now...not saying that a person with an accounting degree can't be quoted....but really, he can't be viewed as an expert on OT Language & Linguistics if he doesn't have more than what is stated above.



Almost laughable to link to his website.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jul 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Six...
> It is a popular expression for those that teach health/wealth prosperity.  The more you give to God, the more you get from God.  In other words, if you want to be rich like the Catepillar CEO, just give a bunch of money to God and you'll be a millionaire.



Yeah okay.


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## rjcruiser (Jul 7, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Yeah okay.



I know....amazing how many pastors prey on their flocks with this teaching.  I believe videos of creflo $$ have been posted before.  No need to rehash it.

Kinda goes hand in hand with your prayer thread.  If you have faith, then you'll be healed.


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## emtguy (Jul 7, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> What does that even mean?



well, i thought it was kinda self explanatory....God said give your alms ( not tithe ) and he will take it as a debt that he personally owes and that he will open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings that can not be contained...in lay terms....

Now alot of people think blessings means money and cars etc...i personally think just being healthy, good secure job, well behaved kids is blessings! just basically a stress free life....money is nice but Gods blessings go so far beyond that .

that said, i repeat...you cant out give God


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## earl (Jul 7, 2010)

Then why do devout Christian suffer just like the rest of us ? Illness and death are not respecters of man .


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 7, 2010)

I think Samuel Truitt Cathy is a prime example of what tithing and honoring Gods word can do for a Christian..


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## rjcruiser (Jul 7, 2010)

earl said:


> Then why do devout Christian suffer just like the rest of us ? Illness and death are not respecters of man .



We agree 



Miguel Cervantes said:


> I think Samuel Truitt Cathy is a prime example of what tithing and honoring Gods word can do for a Christian..



What about Job?

What about what James writes about...you know...those pesky trials?

For as many rich and healthy, there are just as many poor and sick.

Oh...I know, Romans 8:28....but that doesn't mean health and wealth.  God's ways are higher than ours and our blessing might not be on this earth.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> We agree
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Simple perspective, that's all. I spent 6 years helping thousands of folks displaced from one disaster or another and got to see the best and worst of the human spirit. All of those with a positive outlook had one thing in common, but then, so did those with a negative outlook. 

My wife and I are both living with parents in dire health situations, but still manage to see the blessings that have been and are bestowed on us daily.

Simple perspective, that's all.

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## rjcruiser (Jul 7, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Simple perspective, that's all.



I agree with you on perspective.  I just took it from the following posts (one of which wasn't yours) that you and others were talking about more than just perspective.



Miguel Cervantes said:


> I think Samuel Truitt Cathy is a prime example of what tithing and honoring Gods word can do for a Christian..





emtguy said:


> i personally think just being healthy, good secure job, well behaved kids is blessings! just basically a stress free life


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## gtparts (Jul 8, 2010)

emtguy said:


> Now a lot of people think blessings means money and cars etc...i personally think just being healthy, good secure job, well behaved kids is blessings! just basically a stress free life....money is nice but Gods blessings go so far beyond that .



I agree. Those are good things and good things come from God. It is also important to recognize the blessings of God when your health is poor, you have no job, your kids are rebellious and in trouble with the law from bad choices and destructive friends and lifestyle. 

God used Job to illustrate this point well. Even if we have nothing else, if we still have our relationship with Him, we are blessed.


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## Lowjack (Jul 8, 2010)

earl said:


> Then why do devout Christian suffer just like the rest of us ? Illness and death are not respecters of man .



One big Difference though, We are rewarded for our suffering and faith in the after life, the non believer is not.


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