# Have Question About Steel Used For Knives...



## EAGLE EYE 444

I have always wondered if the steel that is used in a certain type of sawblade as is shown in the photo below could be used in knife-making?  Can anyone give any information in that regard.  I know someone that has a couple of these very large saw blades that are probably 8"-10" wide and probably 18-20 feet long (circumference) if they are still intact circular as such.  I think that these were used in a Georgia Pacific plant many years ago in a logging/sawmill type operation.


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## riverbank

Ain't no wood mizer. That's for sure. I'm curious to see what these knife makers say. That could make a ton of knives if the steel was correct.


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## Big7

What few knives I have made (not many)
have all been from tool steel just cause I had access to it
in die and mold shops.

From this shop experience, I do know a little about saw blades.

Look at the teeth. See where the color changes? (in the OP pic)

That tells me that it is probably induction hardened
JUST on the teeth. If the whole thing were hardened it
 would not be flexible enough to make a band.

In another scenario, especially large blades, use bi-metal.
That means just what it says.
The teeth are some kind of hardened steel WELDED to a softer
band.

Only way to know is to cut a piece off and try it. Most large saw
 steels are just high carbon steel. It will get hard and it WILL rust.
Probably would not be my first choice.

Heat it up to 1500 deg (dark red, NOT bright red) and dunk it in 
warm oil until cool enough to hold by hand then air cool.

Hit it with a sharp metal cutting file. If it's slick and don't cut, its tool steel.

If you get any filings (shavings from the file) It's not.


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## Anvil Head

Big 7 is pretty much right on with his advise. If you don't mind packaging and shipping a short length of this material to me I'd be glad to check it out for you. I work with recycled/repurposed steel all the time and can tell you if it's suitable or not. An 8" to 12" cross sectional piece would be enough for testing purposes. 

I have usually  had very good results with those larger resaw band blades. Most have tested out to 15n20 steel characteristics and make excellent kitchen knives as well as stock for damascus billets. Please note I underlined usually, there are no promises here and a lot will depend on mfgr. of the blades. Be glad to give the steel some testing for you. Just pm me and we can work out particulars.


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## Stomper

I was wondering the same thing about saw blades. We have a machine that runs 24" curricular saw blades. We can't use them after they get warped. I have been wondering if there would be any value to knife makers.


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## Razor Blade

Wow , lots of blades in that big ole band. On the circular saw blade thing, some blades are ok to use, some are not. L6  is what the older ones used to be made of { preferred }. Most of the newer ones will still make an ok blade to knock around with.


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## Anvil Head

Here, again with the circ. blades, you are looking at repurposing an unknown steel. This will require testing that particular steel to see if it is suitable. Not all steels are, just the way it is. Just because it's current life is a sawblade there are a tremendous number of variables that will affect its suitability.

Actually Scottie, been reading up a lot on L6 and it wasn't used near as much for saw blades as most think. Surprised the heck out of me.


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## Razor Blade

Maybe thats why its so rare to come by them.


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## Anvil Head

Just about got to buy it nowdays. Most of the large bandsaw blades that I've worked with have tested and acted more like 15n20 (if they tested good at all). Those that Boone gave me were labelled "Silver Steel" and seemed to have a good bit more carbon than 15n20 or L6. Spark alone was closer to 1095/W2 in characteristics, beautiful grain pattern at hi-hard, and got really glassey hard (had to be drawn immediately after quench or they'd start cracking up). Really good san-mai material.


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## BriarPatch99

Carl... This is the metal sample that you tested for me.... 

Same type saw blade ...


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## Anvil Head

Yes, Jimmy, looks very much the same.
>>Same type saw blade ...<<
Key word here is "type". Without knowing it's from the same mfgr. it will still need to be run through testing process. It is a good indicator of possibility but there were quite a few mfgrs. of band saw blades and many of those were imports. Trick is to find that heat treating "sweet spot" to get the most out of that steel as a knife blade (not a saw blade). Testing will just help one get in the right ball park.


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## Hooked On Quack

Wow, alotta good info on here !!!


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## BriarPatch99

Here is a sample of the blade I have .... it is 12" wide and .185" thick ...with Carbide saw Teeth





Here are a few that I have made from it ...





and a few more ....















Now to the question of "If this steel" .... 
I can tell you this a brand new Nicholson file will cut it it .... a used one will slide right across ... a new Dewalt Cobalt 3/16" drill bit will cut at most three holes before it is trash ... It will sharpen on a fine belt sander ... I can not attest to how good it will hold an edge(have not killed enough deer to test) ... 

I have ZERO idea what type steel it is .... I most likely would not make a knife to sell using it .... But you can make a USABLE knife from it .....


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## tsharp

BriarPatch99 very nice looking knifes for sure.


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## Anvil Head

Looks like you've been busy Jimmy. Are you doing any kind of HT on those blades or "cold grinding"? 
That's a lot of material for sure! I wouldn't hesitate to cut it up, test it, try to figure out a suitable HT for it. With that much material there's enough to make it worth while to experiment. I'm pretty sure the chunk you gave me tested out similar to 15n20, but don't recall it having carbide teeth.

Just remember, the natives made "usuable" knives from bone and rock shards until someone discovered what metal would do.


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## BriarPatch99

Carl ...  I had all these knives(except one) with me at the meeting at Twin Blades ... you were busy with the demo ....  but here is a photo of the carbide teeth .... I probably cut the teeth off the sample I gave you( it had done poked a couple holes in me before hand) ...





I am cold working them with bare hands(I don't got no bear hands) .... I keep everything as cold as possible ...even when using the cut off disc with the side grinder( blade is wrapped in a cold wet towel and I only make short cuts before wetting ...  I refine the profile grind  on a wheel grinder bare handed and dip in cold water when it gets warm ...  I finish with the file any spots I can't get to with the grinder ....  I bevel the blade edge with a 1" x 30" belt with several grits .... I polish the flats with a vibrating sander using several grits down to 1000/1200 .... then I polish on a buffing wheel with white rouge ...  

I finish each handle scale as close as I can(especially the front edge) .... I epoxy the scales on and use the Corby rivets ... I then grind the rivets off flush and hand sand the final wood finish by hand ... end it up with a poly or an oil finish ....

All the knives in the group photo are Spalted Bradford pear wood except for top two that have wormwood(with the dust) persimmon  .... stabilized ...


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## BriarPatch99




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## Artfuldodger

BriarPatch99 said:


>



If your photos were better I could see what your knives look like. Just kidding, nice knives, sheaths, and photos.

I see you made a variation of the Ulu. I recall one Carl made on another post. I made one out of a circular saw blade. I use it all the time in the kitchen. It doesn't have to be as sharp as other knives though so you could get by with inferior steel. 

I prefer carbon knives to stainless. I was kinda getting into making knives but blowed the tip off one in my forge.
Not the real kind of knives like Carl makes with his anvil though. I'd probably really mess up some projects with that process.

The Ulu design is a good first project for someone wanting to try their hand at the stock removal way of making a knife.

Here is a basic process from a random search. Just google how to make an Ulu for more ideas.

https://blacklabadventures.com/2014/12/23/making-my-first-knife-an-ulu-knife/


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## Artfuldodger

What about this forge?

http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=1878.0

In the one I melted the tip off my blade, I was using a blower that was too big. It was so big it physically blew half the charcoal out of the forge. I switched to a hair dryer.


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## Artfuldodger

EAGLE EYE 444 said:


> I have always wondered if the steel that is used in a certain type of sawblade as is shown in the photo below could be used in knife-making?  Can anyone give any information in that regard.  I know someone that has a couple of these very large saw blades that are probably 8"-10" wide and probably 18-20 feet long (circumference) if they are still intact circular as such.  I think that these were used in a Georgia Pacific plant many years ago in a logging/sawmill type operation.



I've seen on of those saws at the Georgia-Pacific lumberyard in McCormick, SC.


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## BriarPatch99

Thanks Wayne....


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## Anvil Head

Sorry I missed them Jimmy. I seem to get way too busy at the Guild meetings no matter how hard I try to step back.
Lot of work there, but shows what can be done if one wants it bad enough. Did a lot of knives by hand pretty much that way until I built a big belt grinder. World of diff. for sure. Look a bit closer at the blade points on that saw, might not be carbide. Looks like they are "upsets" (flared from the same steel to make a slightly wider kerf). Little zip from a wire wheel should tell, you'll see the braze joint if carbide inserts. Good explanation of your process. You put the deer pattern on the blade? That'd be a great "capture" on an ulu or wide blade.
Need to get down there and show you an easier way. 

Talking of ulus and steel used.....a lot of the Inuit blades were made from what ever salvage steel they could scrounge. Sometimes boiler plate, old stoves (cast iron), sheet metal, etc. doubt if many were high carbon steel or heat treated. But they served the purpose and worked better than bone.


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## BriarPatch99

Carl .... After farther review ... I do believe you are right about the teeth being just an "upset" tooth .... they are sharp none the less ... I jumped to a conclusion by seeing the faint rings just to the right of each tooth ... thought they were clamped and carbide inserts soldered ... but they are not. My bad... 

The deer pattern is a trial electro etching using saltwater and a 15 amp battery charger ....  my templates are cut in thin plastic on one of Circut machines ....  as you can see there is a "shadowing" as my template moved ... also I failed to clean the carbon off the electrode ... that left the uneven removal of the metal ... my rubber glue was about dried up and that is why the template moved ....   

I have much smaller templates cut ... but just have not taken the time to try etching them  .....

I watched "Life Below Zero" and saw one of the Eskimo ladies using an ulu .... I drew out what I thought she was using and cut it out .... that inside cut was a "dog" to do .... wish I had rounded it slightly more .... I do believe I could skin a deer with it just as is ....


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## EAGLE EYE 444

Artfuldodger said:


> I've seen on of those saws at the Georgia-Pacific lumberyard in McCormick, SC.



The ones that I am talking about actually came from the Georgia Pacific plant in McCormick many years ago.  I think that the "saw-sharpener" gave these two to my relative.


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## Artfuldodger

EAGLE EYE 444 said:


> The ones that I am talking about actually came from the Georgia Pacific plant in McCormick many years ago.  I think that the "saw-sharpener" gave these two to my relative.



I had a co-worker that used one for a flower bed border.


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## Artfuldodger

Anvil Head said:


> Sorry I missed them Jimmy. I seem to get way too busy at the Guild meetings no matter how hard I try to step back.
> Lot of work there, but shows what can be done if one wants it bad enough. Did a lot of knives by hand pretty much that way until I built a big belt grinder. World of diff. for sure. Look a bit closer at the blade points on that saw, might not be carbide. Looks like they are "upsets" (flared from the same steel to make a slightly wider kerf). Little zip from a wire wheel should tell, you'll see the braze joint if carbide inserts. Good explanation of your process. You put the deer pattern on the blade? That'd be a great "capture" on an ulu or wide blade.
> Need to get down there and show you an easier way.
> 
> Talking of ulus and steel used.....a lot of the Inuit blades were made from what ever salvage steel they could scrounge. Sometimes boiler plate, old stoves (cast iron), sheet metal, etc. doubt if many were high carbon steel or heat treated. But they served the purpose and worked better than bone.



I saw a woman chopping up turkey bones with one. I would agree with you on the steel. I like mine for carrots and potatoes. That way I don't dull my sharper knives.
It takes a little getting use to.


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## Anvil Head

Highly versatile cutting tool in the practiced hand. Great kitchen knife for folks with hand problems like arthritis or missing fingers. Have given several away to disabled vets that could not otherwise hold a blade.

Flower garden border......that's just wrong. That's like taking an old 48" or 62" circ. saw blade and painting a fence post on it then hanging it on the barn wall for the birds to target practice on. Good steel needs to be repurposed for better things. (just the ol' hippy smith in me)

Jimmy, I just seem to remember things like that (can't remember to take out the trash but......). I like the shadowed etch effect, can you do it consistently?

ArtD, a dull knife is just a poorly designed screw driver.


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## BriarPatch99

> I like the shadowed etch effect, can you do it consistently?



Being it was my first time etching anything ...I was going for "perfection" .... but I am sure that by slightly moving the template ...you could get the shadowed effect .... don't know for sure ... haven't tried to do so .... may have to give it a try just to see ....


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