# Remington 700



## leesmith (Jan 8, 2020)

Looking into the 700 ultimate muzzleloader. 
What's everyone think about this rifle for out to 250 yds.  Any pros , cons to this gun


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## kingfish (Jan 9, 2020)

I've had one for over 20 years and have killed a bunch of deer with it.  Not sure you are going to get 250 yds though.  I site mine to be dead on at 50 yds and that's probably the longest shot I've ever had with it.  Great gun.  I completely disassemble mine after the season and keep the parts in ziplock bags so corrosion doesn't form.  Not even sure if they make them anymore.


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## Danny Leigh (Jan 9, 2020)

kingfish said:


> I've had one for over 20 years and have killed a bunch of deer with it.  Not sure you are going to get 250 yds though.  I site mine to be dead on at 50 yds and that's probably the longest shot I've ever had with it.  Great gun.  I completely disassemble mine after the season and keep the parts in ziplock bags so corrosion doesn't form.  Not even sure if they make them anymore.



I have one like you are referring to, but Remington now makes the Ultimate that is supposed to be accurate out to 300 yards. I wonder how much of a kick you get with 200 grains of powder.

I was never a fan of the bolt action on the Remington 700ML. With a scope it made loading the primer and cleaning the gun difficult and even with removing the scope cleaning was still difficult. I have a CVA Opitma II and it's super easy to clean and shoot. I know it's accurate out to 100 yards and probably further.


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## BarnesAddict (Jan 9, 2020)

The Remington ULTIMATE was designed to be a long range muzzleloader, so yes, its very capable of 250yds.  It actually is capable of longer distances.

Pros...…. Long range capable.

Cons...…. A very heavily built rifle which adds weight, which helps reduce recoil.  The recoil from these rifles with a full charge and a 300gr bullet is violent.  I would suggest a muzzle brake.
Because of the enormous amount of recoil, they are very well known to tear up cheap scopes and slice through them like melted butter.  Mounts, rings and the scope take a tremendous beating, so you need high quality components.

The ignition system was invented many years ago and it was created for use in the Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress rifles.  Remington bought the rights to the ignition system from UF.
The ignition system is known for gas leaking, thus gas cutting the breech plug nipple.  The PP brass cases that Remington uses, can vary up to .020" which makes is almost impossible to head space correctly
One of the custom rifle builders has created a replacement breech plug that stops all the problems related to the OEM breech plug.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/uml_replacement_plug/

I would suggest that if you purchase a Remington Ultimate, that you be prepared to spend more money for the upgraded ignition system, have a brake installed and buy high quality mount, rings and scope.

Another option would be the CVA Paramount rifle, but I'd wait for the new 2020 model.  They too can have ignition system leaks, but CVA has worked hard to address that issue.  In 2020 it will come with a threaded barrel for a muzzle brake.
A newer ignition system to stop all leaks has also been created by the same rifle builder:  https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/paramount-arrowhead-gen2-upgrade/

Good luck with your decision.


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## shdw633 (Jan 9, 2020)

I have a REM 700 Ultimate and agree with what BarnesAddict stated; however, I don't find that they kick as much as people say they do and I only have a Nikon XR inline scope and rings on mine and have not had any issues with mine breaking or being off. I bought the gun to hunt in the midwest areas that are shotgun only due to the ability to get out to 300 yards with great accuracy.  It is not a cheap gun, I have upgraded the breech plug though I have not installed a muzzle brake as I am not a fan of muzzle breaks due to the amount of noise they generate when fired.  I use the cheaper Hornady SST bullets and Blackhorn 209 and don't have any issues with accuracy in regards to shooting deer and I have killed a few with it.  It is heavier than most muzzleloaders but it has to be to shoot the loads it does and to get the distances it does.  It's a very capable ML and in the right hands can get out there way more than 250 yards in the right hands and with enough practice.  I have several ML's including an Optima, original Rem 700 and a Knight; however, the RUM is the most satisfying to hunt with and shoot.


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## BarnesAddict (Jan 9, 2020)

These rifles have a lot of recoil and putting the information into a recoil calculator, pretty much indicates the recoil is heavier than most large caliber CF rifles.

Muzzle brakes are loud, there's no question of that.  But the brake reduces a tremendous amount of recoil.  They are not for everyone.

Here's a video of a shooter using a brake on his RUM.  This brake happens to be a T-Rex from LR Customs.






The Gen2 replacement breech plug to replace the OEM system is without question the best modification one can make.  It completely eliminates leaks and gas cutting.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/uml_replacement_plug/

Here's an OEM gas cut breech plug:



Completely destroyed Leupold standard mounts from repeated recoil:


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 9, 2020)

My honest thoughts: Why?


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## shdw633 (Jan 9, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> My honest thoughts: Why?



In many areas of the midwest they will only allow shotguns and muzzleloaders during the gun season, no rifles.  A shotgun, though it can be shot out to 200 yards, is not as accurate as a muzzleloader is, especially this one.  Even during the muzzleloader season up there the ability to shoot out to 300 yards is sometimes necessary due to the deer being located in open fields and not in the woods.  In the western states the RUM is quite lethal during their muzzleloader seasons due to how open of country it is.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 9, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> In many areas of the midwest they will only allow shotguns and muzzleloaders during the gun season, no rifles.  A shotgun, though it can be shot out to 200 yards, is not as accurate as a muzzleloader is, especially this one.  Even during the muzzleloader season up there the ability to shoot out to 300 yards is sometimes necessary due to the deer being located in open fields and not in the woods.  In the western states the RUM is quite lethal during their muzzleloader seasons due to how open of country it is.


OK, that's a legitimate reason, I reckon.


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## leesmith (Jan 9, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> The Remington ULTIMATE was designed to be a long range muzzleloader, so yes, its very capable of 250yds.  It actually is capable of longer distances.
> 
> Pros...…. Long range capable.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this information, very interesting and alot to think about


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## leesmith (Jan 9, 2020)

Thanks guys just trying to make the right decision on a muzzleloader loader early so I have all off season to get familiar with it


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## shdw633 (Jan 9, 2020)

BarnesAddict said:


> Another option would be the CVA Paramount rifle, but I'd wait for the new 2020 model.  They too can have ignition system leaks, but CVA has worked hard to address that issue.  In 2020 it will come with a threaded barrel for a muzzle brake.
> A newer ignition system to stop all leaks has also been created by the same rifle builder:  https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/paramount-arrowhead-gen2-upgrade/
> 
> Good luck with your decision.



Have you shot the Paramount or know anyone who has one.  I like that it's a 45.


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## BarnesAddict (Jan 10, 2020)

I personally have not shot a Paramount.  I only shoot customs anymore.

However, I have not heard of a single owner that hasn't been extremely happy with the Paramount short of the vari-flame system, and a lot of game has fallen this fall with them.
The only complaint has been the ignition system.  For what ever reason, they used the vari-flame system, which is a known leaker.  They immediately sent out new bolt springs to resolve the issues.  For some it worked, for others it didn't.
For that reason, Arrowhead created a new breech plug and bolt face, which completely fixes the issue.  Honestly, they should start using that system entirely.
Some didn't like the first stock, so in 2020 they have a second stock available.  They are also threading the barrel for a muzzle brake.  If you don't want to use the brake, you just use the thread protector.

I have never been a fan of CVA rifles, short of the ORIGINAL CVA.  But I believe they hit it out of the park with the Paramount.  It just needs a couple upgrades.  Never thought I say this but, I believe if I were to go back to shooting production rifles, I'd purchase the Paramount and immediately upgrade to the Arrowhead system.

If you use FB.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/498407667366865/

In the future, you'll be seeing a lot more 45cal rifles hit the market.  50cal rifles have their place, but the 45cal  rifles are out shooting them all when it comes to modern inline rifles.  Before someone wants to debate that point, all one has to do is look at what rifles are winning modern inline matches at the NMLRA.

Good luck with your decision.


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## leesmith (Jan 20, 2020)

shdw633 said:


> Have you shot the Paramount or know anyone who has one.  I like that it's a 45.


After a couple months of research I went with the paramount and just got it shipped to me from CVA.
looking to get scope, rings, and rail now


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## shdw633 (Jan 20, 2020)

leesmith said:


> After a couple months of research I went with the paramount and just got it shipped to me from CVA.
> looking to get scope, rings, and rail now



Let me know what you think about it.


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## BarnesAddict (Jan 21, 2020)

leesmith said:


> After a couple months of research I went with the paramount and just got it shipped to me from CVA.
> looking to get scope, rings, and rail now



The owner in this video had the modifications made to his Paramount.  Changed out the OEM breech plug and had a MZ-Rex muzzle brake installed.  States it makes it enjoyable to shoot.  Loves it.


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## shdw633 (Feb 14, 2021)

So how did that Paramount perform for you this season?  Would love to hear a review and if you did anything to the ML after you got it.


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## LTFDretired (Jun 22, 2021)

I have the Remington 700ML the first ones that came out. I gave it to my LGS to take the Leupold ML scope off it, and gave him the ML to sell on consignment. I went with the CVA Optima with SS barrel.


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