# Help with water retrieving



## Buckerama (Feb 14, 2013)

I have a 7 month old male yellow lab. Retrieves well on land, sits, stays. He minds really well but I can't for the life of me get him into water. He goes in water but when it gets deep enough where he has to swim he turns around. Iv never had this problem with a lab. I got him for a duck dog as my other lab passed last year. If I can't get him in water I'm going to have to start over with another puppy. Iv try'd getting in the pond in my waders try'd everything I know to try. Any help would be appreciated!                               Chase


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## tim scott (Feb 14, 2013)

nice looking pup. i had to think about reponding to your question for bit... will likely get blasted by others for this..... my hunting partner and i had this same problem with a black lab years ago. he was a year old, good hunting dog but refused work for us one nice warm winter morning in northern calif. temp. was in the low 20's water was starting to freeze over.... on command the dog jumped in, let out a big gasp turned around and climbed back out and refused to go back in.... we had about 15 birds in the water so this was a problem.... we tried everything to get him to go back in. finally we each grabbed a front and hind leg and threw him as far as we could... he did the same thing but this time we wouldn't let him climb back out.... the water was a straight 10 ft deep drop off so he had to tread water. after about 10 minutes he was getting weak and i was beginging to worry about him dropping dead... suddenly it got thru his thick skull what he had to do.... he went and got one bird and we let him out of the water. we dried him off and got him warm.... then tried it again... same thing he wanted to get right out... this time only took a couple of minutes before he went and got a couple of birds.... again we dried and warmed him up... and did it again.... all total we had to throw that dog in about six times before he got tired of it and started working right... lots of telling him what a good dog he was and lots of treats and a good warm blanket.... by the time we were done he'd hit the water on a run.... bring back two birds (mallards, only thing we'd shoot) in his mouth and try to push a third with his paws and nose.... he wanted to get it done and over so he could get warm. total for that day he brought us 34 birds... so what may have seemed to some as cruel at the time, worked. he was lucky it was so warm day most winter mornings were 18 below zero.
best of luck with your dog..... you have to take charge and not let him be the one in charge. don't let this behavior to go on... doesn't take much for him to learn who the alpha really is. 
tim


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## Tag-a-long (Feb 14, 2013)

tim scott said:


> nice looking pup. i had to think about reponding to your question for bit... will likely get blasted by others for this..... my hunting partner and i had this same problem with a black lab years ago. he was a year old, good hunting dog but refused work for us one nice warm winter morning in northern calif. temp. was in the low 20's water was starting to freeze over.... on command the dog jumped in, let out a big gasp turned around and climbed back out and refused to go back in.... we had about 15 birds in the water so this was a problem....



Yep... but at least ya know it's coming!  

Buck, do yourself a favor and don't press the issue with this pup right now.  He's just a baby, forcing him in the water right now is likely to create issues you may never work out with him.  Hunting season is over, you've got 9 months to work through this, wait a few weeks until the water warms up.  

Make water a fun place to be.  Don't make him swim at first.  Just get him running and splashing in the water and slowly ease him in deeper as he builds confidence.  And if you can, add another dog in the mix and let them play together.  A little competition goes a long way!


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 14, 2013)

ill ask the million dollar question that any trainer is going to ask you. Is the dog force fetched? If so then there is a process to go through on water as well as on land.


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## Tag-a-long (Feb 14, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> ill ask the million dollar question that any trainer is going to ask you. Is the dog force fetched? If so then there is a process to go through on water as well as on land.



Valid point ... I was assuming the dog had not been force fetched and we all know what happens when you do that!


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## Buckerama (Feb 14, 2013)

Dog loves to fetch. He has a real mild temperament so I can't push him to hard. I only took him on 2 hunts this past season for that reason and just let him watch. What I'm afraid of is wasting my time when I could have another pup working decent by season. Never forced anything on him due to his low temperament. It's almost as if he's scared to swim. He can cause iv walked him 10-15 feet off the bank but he swam right back after I let him down. He watches my buddys labs work in water every day, doesint affect him.


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## ThunderRoad (Feb 14, 2013)

tim scott said:


> nice looking pup. i had to think about reponding to your question for bit... will likely get blasted by others for this..... my hunting partner and i had this same problem with a black lab years ago. he was a year old, good hunting dog but refused work for us one nice warm winter morning in northern calif. temp. was in the low 20's water was starting to freeze over.... on command the dog jumped in, let out a big gasp turned around and climbed back out and refused to go back in.... we had about 15 birds in the water so this was a problem.... we tried everything to get him to go back in. finally we each grabbed a front and hind leg and threw him as far as we could... he did the same thing but this time we wouldn't let him climb back out.... the water was a straight 10 ft deep drop off so he had to tread water. after about 10 minutes he was getting weak and i was beginging to worry about him dropping dead... suddenly it got thru his thick skull what he had to do.... he went and got one bird and we let him out of the water. we dried him off and got him warm.... then tried it again... same thing he wanted to get right out... this time only took a couple of minutes before he went and got a couple of birds.... again we dried and warmed him up... and did it again.... all total we had to throw that dog in about six times before he got tired of it and started working right... lots of telling him what a good dog he was and lots of treats and a good warm blanket.... by the time we were done he'd hit the water on a run.... bring back two birds (mallards, only thing we'd shoot) in his mouth and try to push a third with his paws and nose.... he wanted to get it done and over so he could get warm. total for that day he brought us 34 birds... so what may have seemed to some as cruel at the time, worked. he was lucky it was so warm day most winter mornings were 18 below zero.
> best of luck with your dog..... you have to take charge and not let him be the one in charge. don't let this behavior to go on... doesn't take much for him to learn who the alpha really is.
> tim



nah...


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## ThunderRoad (Feb 14, 2013)

Buckerama said:


> Dog loves to fetch. He has a real mild temperament so I can't push him to hard. I only took him on 2 hunts this past season for that reason and just let him watch. What I'm afraid of is wasting my time when I could have another pup working decent by season. Never forced anything on him due to his low temperament. It's almost as if he's scared to swim. He can cause iv walked him 10-15 feet off the bank but he swam right back after I let him down. He watches my buddys labs work in water every day, doesint affect him.



He is fixable. Wait till the water is warm and go swimming with him. Trust me when he sees you out there he will go in after you. Try to make anything around water a positive experience for the pup.


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 14, 2013)

tim scott said:


> nice looking pup. i had to think about reponding to your question for bit... will likely get blasted by others for this..... my hunting partner and i had this same problem with a black lab years ago. he was a year old, good hunting dog but refused work for us one nice warm winter morning in northern calif. temp. was in the low 20's water was starting to freeze over.... on command the dog jumped in, let out a big gasp turned around and climbed back out and refused to go back in.... we had about 15 birds in the water so this was a problem.... we tried everything to get him to go back in. finally we each grabbed a front and hind leg and threw him as far as we could... he did the same thing but this time we wouldn't let him climb back out.... the water was a straight 10 ft deep drop off so he had to tread water. after about 10 minutes he was getting weak and i was beginging to worry about him dropping dead... suddenly it got thru his thick skull what he had to do.... he went and got one bird and we let him out of the water. we dried him off and got him warm.... then tried it again... same thing he wanted to get right out... this time only took a couple of minutes before he went and got a couple of birds.... again we dried and warmed him up... and did it again.... all total we had to throw that dog in about six times before he got tired of it and started working right... lots of telling him what a good dog he was and lots of treats and a good warm blanket.... by the time we were done he'd hit the water on a run.... bring back two birds (mallards, only thing we'd shoot) in his mouth and try to push a third with his paws and nose.... he wanted to get it done and over so he could get warm. total for that day he brought us 34 birds... so what may have seemed to some as cruel at the time, worked. he was lucky it was so warm day most winter mornings were 18 below zero.
> best of luck with your dog..... you have to take charge and not let him be the one in charge. don't let this behavior to go on... doesn't take much for him to learn who the alpha really is.
> tim



the mods can ban me if they want. but this may be the worse post of non-advice for advice ive ever seen in the dog forum here. Obviously your dog wasn't trained correctly to do what you were asking it to do. Someone should have picked you up and threw you in the water. 



Buckerama said:


> Dog loves to fetch. He has a real mild temperament so I can't push him to hard. I only took him on 2 hunts this past season for that reason and just let him watch. What I'm afraid of is wasting my time when I could have another pup working decent by season. Never forced anything on him due to his low temperament. It's almost as if he's scared to swim. He can cause iv walked him 10-15 feet off the bank but he swam right back after I let him down. He watches my buddys labs work in water every day, doesint affect him.



you say he loves to fetch? the dog doesn't love to fetch enough to get in the water...

a mild temperament has nothing to do with whether the dog can be force fetched or not. Im guessing (and its not a slam on you) but you don't understand or know what it means to force fetch a dog. Find a pro close to you that knows what they are doing and get them to HELP you. 

and dog's don't learn by watching.


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## Folsom (Feb 14, 2013)

Amen turkey !!

I yeah and someone owes me a new phone I had my drink come out my nose and mouth after reading that comment, you should have been a comedian...


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## Buckerama (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm sorry but I refuse to pay a trainer 400-500 a month(on a low end) to train a dog. I have trained multiple labs into some of the best duck dogs iv ever hunted over. I know what force fetching is.


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 15, 2013)

Well good luck then. You obviously have this all figured out.


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## Tag-a-long (Feb 15, 2013)

Buckerama said:


> I'm sorry but I refuse to pay a trainer 400-500 a month(on a low end) to train a dog. I have trained multiple labs into some of the best duck dogs iv ever hunted over. I know what force fetching is.



TT wasn't suggesting you send the dog off to be trained.  You're questioning whether you should cut your losses and start over with a new puppy.  It may be as simple as puppy that needs a little extra effort with introduction to water.  Or it could be this one is just not a good candidate for the job.  Contrary to popular belief, not all labs are born to retrieve.  A local pro or experienced amateur can help you evaluate the dog and  try to figure out what your options are.  Most of them offer some level of day training at reasonable rates and could help you work through the issue if that's what you decide to do.  

Just my personal opinion and I could be way off target but based on what you've posted I think you already know what you want to do.


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## nhancedsvt (Feb 15, 2013)

Buckerama said:


> I'm sorry but I refuse to pay a trainer 400-500 a month(on a low end) to train a dog. I have trained multiple labs into some of the best duck dogs iv ever hunted over. I know what force fetching is.



Then do it. Seems pretty simple to me. I have seen it happen personally, but IMO (and I'm glad I listened when given this advice) a dog should not be washed out before FF. The whole process of FF can completely change a dog. Introduce the pup to water the RIGHT way, and FF him before making any decisions.


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## ThunderRoad (Feb 15, 2013)

Buckerama said:


> I'm sorry but I refuse to pay a trainer 400-500 a month(on a low end) to train a dog. I have trained multiple labs into some of the best duck dogs iv ever hunted over. I know what force fetching is.



But you cant get him in the water? No way a retrieve driven pup dont go in after a bumper! Just go slow...listen to turkey's advice, swim WITH the dog and you will be fine. Positive reinforcement does wonders with certain dogs. remember that.


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## ryano (Feb 15, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> the mods can ban me if they want. but this may be the worse post of non-advice for advice ive ever seen in the dog forum here. Obviously your dog wasn't trained correctly to do what you were asking it to do. Someone should have picked you up and threw you in the water.


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## Buckerama (Feb 15, 2013)

That's the problem. He loves to retrieve when he's by himself. Get him around another dog and he shys off. He has no drive and no fight in him. Turkey is that a boykin in your avatar? If so how do you like the breed? Iv thought about getting one but was worried about the little thing retrieving geese?


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## labradoodle (Feb 15, 2013)

so the question is, is your dog force fetched?


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## ngaduck (Feb 15, 2013)

Wow, all sorts of win on this thread.



Buckerama said:


> That's the problem. He loves to retrieve when he's by himself. Get him around another dog and he shys off. He has no drive and no fight in him. Turkey is that a boykin in your avatar? If so how do you like the breed? Iv thought about getting one but was worried about the little thing retrieving geese?



Turkey jerky has several boykins, and they will retrieve geese. But....if you are ready to give up on your current dog, a boykin is not the answer. They will not be any easier for you to train.



labradoodle said:


> so the question is, is your dog force fetched?



I'm going to say.......no.


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 15, 2013)

If you're not going to follow and be faithful to a comprehensive training program or the alternative- send to a trainer, then i wouldn't recommend any dog. Regardless of the breed. Sorry if that sounds rude and/or blunt....


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## Folsom (Feb 15, 2013)

Bahaha, WATER FORCE.....


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## ngaduck (Feb 15, 2013)

Folsom said:


> Bahaha, WATER FORCE.....



Is that where you throw the dog in and force it to stay until it brings the bird back?


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 15, 2013)

Folsom said:


> Bahaha, WATER FORCE.....



go pick the barbed wire up out of the field


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## Buckerama (Feb 16, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> If you're not going to follow and be faithful to a comprehensive training program or the alternative- send to a trainer, then i wouldn't recommend any dog. Regardless of the breed. Sorry if that sounds rude and/or blunt....



I can train a dog. Once again this forum has showed it's full of I'm the only one that knows how to hunt/knows how to train a dog/ can catch fish. I asked a question about the boykin breed! Not your opinion on how I train dogs. Iv traind my share of dogs. Iv even had friends that sent a dog to a trainer and it turns out the dog just don't have what it takes. Which I'm pretty sure is what I have run into with my lab. If a dog has a drive I can get him to hunt. That being said, don't bash my training if you have never hunted over one of my dogs.


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## Turkey Trax (Feb 16, 2013)

Buckerama said:


> but I can't for the life of me get him into water.



that stinks. you probably need him to get in  water to pick up your  ducks.



Buckerama said:


> I have trained multiple labs into some of the best duck dogs iv ever hunted over. I know what force fetching is.



really??? how many GREAT dogs have you trained? you look kind of young in your avatar. And define "best duck dogs".



Buckerama said:


> Turkey is that a boykin in your avatar? If so how do you like the breed? Iv thought about getting one but was worried about the little thing retrieving geese?



I love the breed. I DONT recommend you getting one.




Buckerama said:


> I can train a dog. Once again this forum has showed it's full of I'm the only one that knows how to hunt/knows how to train a dog/ can catch fish. I asked a question about the boykin breed! Not your opinion on how I train dogs. Iv traind my share of dogs. Iv even had friends that sent a dog to a trainer and it turns out the dog just don't have what it takes. Which I'm pretty sure is what I have run into with my lab. If a dog has a drive I can get him to hunt. That being said, don't bash my training if you have never hunted over one of my dogs.



yep you're right. the forum is full of people that are full of themselves. You asked a question at the beginning. I attempted to help. You responded with a "I know it all" attitude. Good luck.


Plus if i hunt over your dog i guess it'll be on dry ground.


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## krazybronco2 (Feb 16, 2013)

just read and reread your orginal post. and might want to try this.

since you dog will get in the water but wont swim find a very shallow pond or creek one where he could almost get all the way across (might have to swim just a bit in the middle) and start with very short throws were the pup can gain some confidence in the water. as in just to the edge then slowly work the throws farther out. and there needs to be alot and i mean alot of praise. let him think water is the greatest thing he has ever seen.

also you want the bank to be very firm and a gentle slope.


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## gsubo (Feb 17, 2013)

No one trying to be a smart butt on here..just people trying to give good straight advice. Sounds to me like somewhere along the lines he had a negative experience w water. Either he wasn't introduced properly or just a bad experience for one reason or another.  You'll have to start over w him. Treat him like a 2 month old puppy and keep it positive.  Just like a dog that's gun shy..he can have all the drive in the world but if he's not introduced properly u can have major problems that are hard to fix.  That dog is too young to give up on.  Get him loving the water like he should then force fetch him.  Just me 2 cents. Good luck.


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## lilbear830 (Feb 27, 2013)

Take him swimming when it gets warmer. Go out just a little ways past him and go under. I did it with mine and he now swims like a champ. I'm with gsu on this. sounds like he wasn't properly introduced to water. Did you ever just throw him in to try to make him swim?


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## bkl021475 (Feb 28, 2013)

tim scott said:


> nice looking pup. i had to think about reponding to your question for bit... will likely get blasted by others for this..... my hunting partner and i had this same problem with a black lab years ago. he was a year old, good hunting dog but refused work for us one nice warm winter morning in northern calif. temp. was in the low 20's water was starting to freeze over.... on command the dog jumped in, let out a big gasp turned around and climbed back out and refused to go back in.... we had about 15 birds in the water so this was a problem.... we tried everything to get him to go back in. finally we each grabbed a front and hind leg and threw him as far as we could... he did the same thing but this time we wouldn't let him climb back out.... the water was a straight 10 ft deep drop off so he had to tread water. after about 10 minutes he was getting weak and i was beginging to worry about him dropping dead... suddenly it got thru his thick skull what he had to do.... he went and got one bird and we let him out of the water. we dried him off and got him warm.... then tried it again... same thing he wanted to get right out... this time only took a couple of minutes before he went and got a couple of birds.... again we dried and warmed him up... and did it again.... all total we had to throw that dog in about six times before he got tired of it and started working right... lots of telling him what a good dog he was and lots of treats and a good warm blanket.... by the time we were done he'd hit the water on a run.... bring back two birds (mallards, only thing we'd shoot) in his mouth and try to push a third with his paws and nose.... he wanted to get it done and over so he could get warm. total for that day he brought us 34 birds... so what may have seemed to some as cruel at the time, worked. he was lucky it was so warm day most winter mornings were 18 below zero.
> best of luck with your dog..... you have to take charge and not let him be the one in charge. don't let this behavior to go on... doesn't take much for him to learn who the alpha really is.
> tim



You and your hunting partner killed 34 ducks that day, Cali must have some nice limits! Oh, and listen to TT!!


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## Tim1980 (Mar 1, 2013)

Wait till it warms up and get some pigeons.  Pull out the flight feathers on one side and let him chase it around.  Then toss it in the water.  Usually works for the youngsters.


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