# Any explanation s ?



## earl (Oct 6, 2010)

Revelation 14 (New International Version)

Revelation 14

The Lamb and the 144,000

 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.



144,000 male virgins with Jesus and God's name on their forehead.And from earth .  How odd.


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## Lowjack (Oct 6, 2010)

They are Messianic Jews and young who go about the Land of Israel Preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews, 12 Thousand from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
They are not Jehova witnesses, LOL


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Juda.  They are witnesses for God during the tribulation. They are sealed so no harm will come to them.


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## stringmusic (Oct 6, 2010)

for an explaination of revalation you need to speak with someone who is EXTREMELY well versed in the bible. Revalation has alot going on in it and it takes someone who has really taken the time to figure it all out.
sorry Im not this person


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## earl (Oct 6, 2010)

But it''s part of the Bible. So simple a child can understand it .


LJ or Apoint How and when is this supposed to occur ? I don't see it happening any time soon. To get that many virgin males from 12 sources seems a bit of a stretch . Even if they are Jewish.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2010)

Hello Earl, I'm not an expert on Rev yet no one seems to be. There is a bible "context" that carries thru scripture. You might even say that there will be 2 churches. One has defiled herself with a false christ, receiving his spirit, becoming one with him instead of the other who is one with Christ, the true bride. I suspect that "women" should have been translated woman. Since God's Gifts and promises are irrevokable, I suspect that although the Jews have thus far rejected Jesus, the 144,000 is the number that will one day confess Jesus as Lord.


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Earl, I'm not an expert on Rev yet no one seems to be. There is a bible "context" that carries thru scripture. You might even say that there will be 2 churches. One has defiled herself with a false christ, receiving his spirit, becoming one with him instead of the other who is one with Christ, the true bride. I suspect that "women" should have been translated woman. Since God's Gifts and promises are irrevokable, I suspect that although the Jews have thus far rejected Jesus, the 144,000 is the number that will one day confess Jesus as Lord.



 There is already million's of Jews that believe in Jesus.


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## earl (Oct 6, 2010)

I did a quick google on the 12 tribes and it appears that they are worldwide races . It still seems that the chances of something of that nature coming true are astronomical.
Revelation is an odd book.


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

earl said:


> But it''s part of the Bible. So simple a child can understand it .
> 
> 
> LJ or Apoint How and when is this supposed to occur ? I don't see it happening any time soon. To get that many virgin males from 12 sources seems a bit of a stretch . Even if they are Jewish.



 Did I not say tribulation above.
 To some, everything in the book is a bit of a stretch, huh Earl?


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## earl (Oct 6, 2010)

apoint said:


> There is already million's of Jews that believe in Jesus.





How many virgins from each tribe? Over a million is not a drop in the bucket when you kick out the women and then the non virgin men , and then start separating by tribe.

How many tribes are represented in your  million ?


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

Rev was written for those that understand the rest of the bible too


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

earl said:


> How many virgins from each tribe? Over a million is not a drop in the bucket when you kick out the women and then the non virgin men , and then start separating by tribe.
> 
> How many tribes are represented in your  million ?


  12 tribes.
 You left the s off my millions.


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

There will be a happening that causes the Jews to see the truth [ Jesus ] and makes this 144,000 an easy number to obtain.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2010)

apoint said:


> There is already million's of Jews that believe in Jesus.


 Hello apoint, wonder which of the two "churches or bride" I pointed out do they belong to??? narrow road or broad road. Who do they say that Jesus is???


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello apoint, wonder which of the two "churches or bride" I pointed out do they belong to??? narrow road or broad road. Who do they say that Jesus is???



 Please elaborate, I dont get your 2 churches. The scripture is talking about God's people, not false followers. so I dont get where you are going with this.


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

REV 7: 3  till we have sealed the servants of God in their forehead.


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## SneekEE (Oct 6, 2010)

earl said:


> But it''s part of the Bible. So simple a child can understand it .
> 
> 
> LJ or Apoint How and when is this supposed to occur ? I don't see it happening any time soon. To get that many virgin males from 12 sources seems a bit of a stretch . Even if they are Jewish.



A harvard professor with the intel... entail.... iq of Albert Einstein cant understand the bible with out the aid of Gods spirit, but with the aid of Gods spirit a donkey, a child, or  rock could  read it, preach it,  with great understanding.


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## SneekEE (Oct 6, 2010)

earl said:


> I did a quick google on the 12 tribes and it appears that they are worldwide races . It still seems that the chances of something of that nature coming true are astronomical.
> Revelation is an odd book.



You want to have some real fun, ask anyone who considers themself to be a black israelite who the tribes are and are not, or go to youtube and watch there teaching on who "Israel" is....


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> You want to have some real fun, ask anyone who considers themself to be a black israelite who the tribes are and are not, or go to youtube and watch there teaching on who "Israel" is....



 Louis faracon has the details for that.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2010)

apoint said:


> Please elaborate, I dont get your 2 churches. The scripture is talking about God's people, not false followers. so I dont get where you are going with this.


 Ducked in between some family time, ck back in after everyone goes to bed to try and make my case


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## apoint (Oct 6, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Ducked in between some family time, ck back in after everyone goes to bed to try and make my case



 Read my post #16


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2010)

Hello apoint, just getting back. I'm trying to figure out how I can touch on this without starting an all out war on this forumn. It would be helpful to understand, "taking a mark". Ephesians 1:13 gives us some insight as to being "marked". When I refer to two churches, I don't actually believe there are two. But there is one true bride who is spotless and pure [because of what he has done] and there is an imitation bride who has been deceived by the spirit of the antichrist. His followers are baptized into his name or number, 666 is given as an example and is elsewhere refered to as "mystery". I personally believe it will eventually surface as 777 when the horns [denominations] give their authority and set aside there differences to a counsel which spotlights their common belief of who Jesus is. In the end the false Jesus or antichrist that has deceived the masses will claim to be God. The true Jesus will come down from heaven and gather his bride. Those who were deceived will be taken and thrown in the lake of fire where they will be destroyed. The false church is the woman in chp 17, also refered to as Babylon, also the great prostitute, refered to all through Rev as "her".I have hinted much here without getting right to the point. which would cause major confrontations which I don't care to fight. I'm not sure if this helps clarify or just makes things worse. My my, I seem to do that alot.


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## Lowjack (Oct 6, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello apoint, wonder which of the two "churches or bride" I pointed out do they belong to??? narrow road or broad road. Who do they say that Jesus is???



Israel is not the bride of Yeshua , Israel is the wife of YHVH, whom he divorced and will take back or is in the process of reconciliation with her.
The Bride is the Church Comprised of both Jews who accept Yeshua as their Messiah and gentiles who accept Yeshua as their King and savior, so Spiritual Israel which are Jews who believe in God will re-married YHVH , They are both two identities with different paths but one goal.

Today there are hundreds of thousands of Young Jews who believe Yeshua is Their Messiah, I have hundreds in my face book, they have also taken bows of celibacy until marriage, I say that is the seed to the 144,000, I'm proud to be one of the first who brought the gospel to Jews in the l and of Israel and the US starting back in the 1970s when no one even knew what a messianic Jew was.
We have being beaten, threatened, Shot at , spit upon, hit by rocks, but where the apostles not also persecuted by their own ?


Isaiah 54:5  For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6: For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7: For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8: In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Israel is not the bride of Yeshua , Israel is the wife of YHVH, whom he divorced and will take back or is in the process of reconciliation with her.
> The Bride is the Church Comprised of both Jews who accept Yeshua as their Messiah and gentiles who accept Yeshua as their King and savior, so Spiritual Israel which are Jews who believe in God will re-married YHVH , They are both two identities with different paths but one goal.
> 
> Today there are hundreds of thousands of Young Jews who believe Yeshua is Their Messiah, I have hundreds in my face book, they have also taken bows of celibacy until marriage, I say that is the seed to the 144,000, I'm proud to be one of the first who brought the gospel to Jews in the l and of Israel and the US starting back in the 1970s when no one even knew what a messianic Jew was.
> We have being beaten, threatened, Shot at , spit upon, hit by rocks, but where the apostles not also persecuted by their own ?


Hello Lowjack, could you tell me where I can find info or good reading on the subject, I'll call it "wife of YHVH". This could answer some questions to some things for me that have never quite added up. I wouldn't want to derail this thread so maybe we could start another. There seems to be conflicting statements, such as "the bride belongs to the bridegoom"


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## Lowjack (Oct 6, 2010)

I'll put something together later.


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## jason4445 (Oct 7, 2010)

It has made me laugh for years listening to Fundamentalist try to figure out who the 144,000 were.  Heard all sorts of things.  They were jews who accepted Jesus, another big one is the lost tribes, the 7th Day Adventist use to claim only they would be the 144,000 that got to heaven - well that is until their membership got to above the 144,000 then they dropped that idea really fast - another fantasy is they are the ones who died as non believers but while dead in some semi heavenly place had accepted Christ.  I mean listening to all the ideas, it is like putting what it means on a wheel, asking the question, spinning the wheel and seeing what answer it lands on.  The closest answer I every heard is it is nothing that mankind will ever know, but the guy telling me that said that since he was one of the few that accepted Jesus in the correct manner, then no matter what it meant he was certainly one of the 144,000.

It only brings up the larges contradiction in the Fundamentalist belief system. Everyone of them says that those loved ones that have passed before are now in heaven, yet their book or Revelation says no, no one has yet entered heaven until Jesus comes for a second time and them only 144,000 will go to heaven with him.


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## Israel (Oct 7, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Lowjack, could you tell me where I can find info or good reading on the subject, I'll call it "wife of YHVH". This could answer some questions to some things for me that have never quite added up. I wouldn't want to derail this thread so maybe we could start another. There seems to be conflicting statements, such as "the bride belongs to the bridegoom"



What did Jesus say?

Mat 11:11  Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women _there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:_ notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 

What did John the baptizer say?

Joh 3:29  He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 


John is saying what Jesus even said of him...he is the "best" man...but the bride form whom Jesus came, belongs to Jesus, so as John understood, he must bow out of the way for the "better" man.


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## earl (Oct 7, 2010)

apoint said:


> 12 tribes.
> You left the s off my millions.





Apoint , that was done for a reason . If you are going to be taken seriously here ,you have to stop the ''exageration''. None of the sources I Googled gave the worlwide population of Messianic Jews as no more than 500,00 [HALF a million]. If you have other sources with stats , troy 'em out .

Second of all , if you claim to understand Revelation completely ,there are several million Christians and several hundreds of thousands of ministers and scholars that would like a few words with you.

You claim Farrakhan as an Israelite ?????  There's one tribe that's going to be a while producing it's share of virgins.


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## earl (Oct 7, 2010)

Today there are hundreds of thousands of Young Jews who believe Yeshua is Their Messiah, I have hundreds in my face book, they have also taken bows of celibacy until marriage,



Virgins LJ virgins . Not guys who ''waited''.
Sheesh !!



apoint
Rev was written for those that understand the rest of the bible too


Please elaborate, I dont get your 2 churches. The scripture is talking about God's people, not false followers. so I dont get where you are going with this.


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## earl (Oct 7, 2010)

Some of ya'll must not be REAL Christians if you are asking others what this book means .


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## apoint (Oct 7, 2010)

earl said:


> Apoint , that was done for a reason . If you are going to be taken seriously here ,you have to stop the ''exageration''. None of the sources I Googled gave the worlwide population of Messianic Jews as no more than 500,00 [HALF a million]. If you have other sources with stats , troy 'em out .
> 
> Second of all , if you claim to understand Revelation completely ,there are several million Christians and several hundreds of thousands of ministers and scholars that would like a few words with you.
> 
> You claim Farrakhan as an Israelite ?????  There's one tribe that's going to be a while producing it's share of virgins.



 Show me where I said I understand Revelation completely?
  Show me where I said Farrakhan was an Israelite?
 Show me where you understand anything I write?


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## apoint (Oct 7, 2010)

earl said:


> Some of ya'll must not be REAL Christians if you are asking others what this book means .



Funny, your not a christian but you know all about the bible to the point of putting God to shame.


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## formula1 (Oct 7, 2010)

*Re:*

I know what Revelation means.  He who has an ear, let him hear!

When the end has come, Jesus Christ wins!  And if you are with Him, you win too.

And if you are not, well, it's a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


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## earl (Oct 7, 2010)

Rev was written for those that understand the rest of the bible too

Louis faracon has the details for that.


Boy , you sure have a short memory or maybe attention span. 
If you wrote more clearly and concisely , and checked your facts prior to hitting the post quick reply, you would be more easily understood.


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