# Former florida wildlife officer kills lab



## dakota19652 (Jun 26, 2009)

On wed june 24 at approx 6:00 pm dale knapp a retired wildlife officer took the life of my girlfriends 3 year old yellow lab,at sometime during the day the battery fell out of the coller that keep her around the house because she loved to run,his story is that she was chasing his chickens <which by the way he allows to run free > she allegedly killed 2 chickens but no one has seen pictures of or evidence of these dead chickens,has she done it before i dont know no one has ever said anthing nor where there any reports about her doing anything like that but she is a dog.what i want to know is if you where a wildlife officer for more than 20 years and you couldn't contain or call the animal control on a 70 pound female lab and your only recourse was to shoot this dog how did you last on your job for 20 years,and by the way i buried the dog and she was shot quartering away from him apparentley running away.and the kicker is the sheriff dept of highlands co is trying to cover it up.we would have been glad to pay for his chickens or any damage she caused .this dog was not only a pet but  a member of the family and i now have a girlfriend that crys every night because the dog slept with her and 2 boys 5 years and 6 years that what to know whe she is going to come home


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## Capt Quirk (Jun 26, 2009)

That is a terrible story, and I am very sorry for the loss of your pet. This is almost as bad as the story of the Florida cops who kicked in a man's door, shot his dog, and beat the man to the floor. He kept asking to get his dog to the vet, they let him lay there and watch his dog die. To top it all off, I seem to remember it being yet another case of wrong address. Too much of this going on.


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

If chickens are considered livestock there is nothing that really can be done...but if not you can probly get him for animal cruelty. This was just brought up on a chicken forum im on.

Us chicken people dont take kindly to dogs chasing our chickens. People just think..oh they are JUST chickens but we go through hatching and raising and loving and caring. These chickens were probly this guys pets. Its not right to shoot the dog though. A lot of people keep paint ball guns around for this reason.

Sorry this happend and people over react sometimes.


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> If chickens are considered livestock there is nothing that really can be done...but if not you can probly get him for animal cruelty. This was just brought up on a chicken forum im on.
> 
> Us chicken people dont take kindly to dogs chasing our chickens. People just think..oh they are JUST chickens but we go through hatching and raising and loving and caring. These chickens were probly this guys pets. Its not right to shoot the dog though. A lot of people keep paint ball guns around for this reason.
> 
> Sorry this happend and people over react sometimes.



Trying to compare a chicken to a dog is not only ridiculous, its just insane. Chickens are almost not even aware that there in the world. There is no excuse for this man to have shot this dog. AND what gets me is he KILLED the dog. He did not shoot it with a little bird shot, bb, pellet, paintball. And with no warning killed the dog. In my opinion his punishment should be that of the same. This story is sad. I hope your girlfriend does not develop any kind of serious problems from this event, with the huge amount of stress it is possible. I wish you guys the best of luck dealing with it.


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

I did not say it was ok for the guy to shoot the dog.

Do you own chickens? I myself thought chickens were silly little things till I bought some. I LOVE spending time with them. They are VERY smart actually. 
They may not be on the level of a dog but I am still passionate about my chickens.


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## NGaHunter (Jun 26, 2009)

Another arguement against the wireless fence...batteries

Sad story for sure...truely sorry for your loss


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## hevishot (Jun 26, 2009)

what do they do that makes you say they are "smart"???...sorry to the op about the loss of your dog...


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

NGaHunter said:


> Another arguement against the wireless fence...batteries
> 
> Sad story for sure...truely sorry for your loss



Ya. We thought about the wireless fence ourselves but opted it was too much of a risk of them still getting loose.

I hate it for you


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## chadf (Jun 26, 2009)

uncalled for to kill the dog!


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> I did not say it was ok for the guy to shoot the dog.
> 
> Do you own chickens? I myself thought chickens were silly little things till I bought some. I LOVE spending time with them. They are VERY smart actually.
> They may not be on the level of a dog but I am still passionate about my chickens.



alls i meant by it was that chickens are not something worth ACTUALLY KILLING a dog over... Of course they are pets just the same, and i am sure in some kind of way you can get attached to them... If they were my chickens and i knew that dogs were running in my neighborhood, at least until i could get in touch with the owner, i would pin my chickens, not that that's fair, but for the sake of my chickens.


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## hogdawg (Jun 26, 2009)

He should not have shot the dog.  Another reason I don't care for wireless fences.  I am very sorry for your loss.


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## Nugefan (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> If chickens are considered livestock there is nothing that really can be done...but if not you can probly get him for animal cruelty. This was just brought up on a chicken forum im on.
> 
> Us chicken people dont take kindly to dogs chasing our chickens. People just think..oh they are JUST chickens but we go through hatching and raising and loving and caring. These chickens were probly this guys pets. Its not right to shoot the dog though. A lot of people keep paint ball guns around for this reason.
> 
> Sorry this happend and people over react sometimes.



Sarah , you'll never win this one ...

you'll get more time for shooting a dog than a person now days ...

Sorry for your girlfriends loss ...

but is there a leash law in Fla ????????


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## Luke0927 (Jun 26, 2009)

Sorry about the loss, I wasn't there so I can't say but if the dog was killing his livestock (if you chicken livestock i mean it wasn't chasing calves) he has a right it would have been better if he caught the dog and was just reimbursed for the chickens to me that would have been the right thing to do.  I am a dog lover but you have to be able to defend your property.

A bad situation all round that you might never know the truth to.


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 26, 2009)

Luke0927 said:


> Sorry about the loss, I wasn't there so I can't say but if the dog was killing his livestock he has a right...I am a dog lover but you have to be able to defend your property.
> 
> A bad situation all round that you might never know the truth to, dogs are kenneled for their safety.



would it have been that hard to let the people know their dog was running chickens? and then shoot the dog with something besides a deadly round? Seems as though to me this guy had other problems and took them out on the dog.


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## Bodab1974 (Jun 26, 2009)

I feel your pain,  but to say that someone's chickens are not worth shooting a dog to protect?  I dont agree there.

What would you do if you had a small dog like a beagle, and the neighbors Dobbie got out of the yard and was attacking him?  would you wait until ANimal control arrived?  Call the sherrif?  or shoot the dog to protect your pet?

I have raised dogs and I have raised Chickens.   I would hate to do it,  but yes if a dog were attaching my chickens.. I would use whatever means I needed to in order to protect my livestock/pets.

It is a terrible thing to lose a family pet,  but if the dog was attacking the neighbors animals...  the neighbor was in the right.


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 26, 2009)

Bodab1974 said:


> I feel your pain,  but to say that someone's chickens are not worth shooting a dog to protect?  I dont agree there.
> 
> What would you do if you had a small dog like a beagle, and the neighbors Dobbie got out of the yard and was attacking him?  would you wait until ANimal control arrived?  Call the sherrif?  or shoot the dog to protect your pet?
> 
> ...



I do not disagree with shooting a dog running chickens, BUT WHY kill the dog, there are many loads that you can shoot that will more than run the dog off, with out killing him.


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## Bodab1974 (Jun 26, 2009)

91xjgawes said:


> I do not disagree with shooting a dog running chickens, BUT WHY kill the dog, there are many loads that you can shoot that will more than run the dog off, with out killing him.



Very true,  I always kept a box of .410 shells loaded with rock salt..   but who is to say that he had such loads available.   If the dog has not done this before in a long itme.   it might not have occured to him to have loads that do less than kill.


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## Luke0927 (Jun 26, 2009)

91xjgawes said:


> would it have been that hard to let the people know their dog was running chickens? and then shoot the dog with something besides a deadly round? Seems as though to me this guy had other problems and took them out on the dog.



Like I said know one was there its a bad situation but if anyone can't prove them man is lying about it killing his chickens theres nothing you can do...He choose to defend his property now if they can prove that he just shot it to shoot it throw the book at him...either way the chance of something like this could have been drastically reduced if the dog was kenneled...but thats another thing all together and no reason to beat a dead horse


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 26, 2009)

Bodab1974 said:


> Very true,  I always kept a box of .410 shells loaded with rock salt..   but who is to say that he had such loads available.   If the dog has not done this before in a long itme.   it might not have occured to him to have loads that do less than kill.



good point... In the end there probably was other ways to go about it rather than kill the dog, maybe, maybe not... i hope that the poster and his girlfriend and the kids cope with the loss, and take from the experience what they can, its rough loosing a pet(of any kind).


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## maker4life (Jun 26, 2009)

I flat love my dogs . I love them enough that I keep them under control . I honestly hate to hear about the guy killing the dog but I really don't blame him . If your dog is on anothers property doing stuff like that then it's bound to happen . Sad but true .


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## robbie the deer hunter (Jun 26, 2009)

*all i can say????????*

all i can say is this!!!! i am very sorry that happened to you, your family, and your beloved friend. next is this... i pray to god every night that he never lets anyone harm my great dane( which is my family ). i would be in prison for the rest of my life if i was in your shoes. now some folks might think i am stupid but my beloved friend is my family and not just part of it. she is with me 24/7 including work and sleep. some people are blessed with children i was blessed with harley- my great dane.  if one of your family members bit or killed a chicken would you shoot them????? OF COURSE YOU WOULD NOT AND YOU BETTER NOT SHOOT MY GREAT  DANE  EITHER!!!!!!!  everyone has their own opinion about animals and the way they are punished or controlled when they do wrong and i respect everyones opinion however i know how i feel and to what extent i would go if my girl was harmed. if she truly hurt someone then i would have her put to sleep. it would probably kill me to do it but i would however i would make that call not you (or at least it wouldnt be a good idea for you to ). keep your faith in god my friend. i know you are having some very terrible days and nights with this trajedy. let there be a lesson learned as well. i am sure there are many lessons that will be learned from this experience. the only way to really protect your beloved friends are to be absolute sure they are kept out of harms way.


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## WTM45 (Jun 26, 2009)

Contact an attorney.
Delete the thread.

You have been deprived of personal property, and enjoyment of that property.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Jun 26, 2009)

*thats good*

that is way better advice than i could give to you but very true. delete this thread and contact the best attorney you can find!!


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## dakota19652 (Jun 26, 2009)

I will say this i know people have chickens for pets just like people have rats and snakes but when was the last time your chickens slept inthe same bed with your kids or woke you up to someone at you door,this is a grown man is his late 40,s iof he would have knelt down the dog would have came to him and he could have gotten her phone number off her collar she was very docile.i have slowed down in the road to avoid this mans chickens but you can but you lily whit rear end i wont again.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Jun 26, 2009)

*not trying to be!!!*

not trying to be a smart but what if the chickens were running the dog. would you shoot the chickens???  NO I DONT THINK SO!!


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## maker4life (Jun 26, 2009)

robbie the deer hunter said:


> not trying to be a smart but what if the chickens were running the dog. would you shoot the chickens???  NO I DONT THINK SO!!



If they were on my property and hurting my dogs , YES .


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## robbie the deer hunter (Jun 26, 2009)

*No comparison*

No comparison in a chickens life and a dogs. Just like said in the above post chickens dont sleep in the bed, ride in the truck, and bark at the door when strangers come and guess what folks??? We dont eat dogs either but i love fried chicken.


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## robertyb (Jun 26, 2009)

Get an attorney and file a lawsuit asking for $10,000.00 for the dog and $2,000,000.00 for punitive damages (girlfriend & kids pain and suffering). See what 12 folks have to say about him killing a dog over a chicken.


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## Jeff Phillips (Jun 26, 2009)

I am real sorry ya'll are having to go through this! I am a dog person, love them, and mine is laying on my feet as I type this.

But in the country when I was growing up, a dog that chased chickens died real quick. 

I lost an English Bulldog for chasing chickens when I was a kid. I was told it was my fault for not keeping my dog put up.

I doubt a lawyer is going to be much help.

My daughter has a litter of 3/4 lab 1/4 unknown (maybe bulldog). Blacks and chocolates. I would be happy to get you one for free. I'll pay for the shots.


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/Florida.html
"Dog owners also are liable for damage inflicted upon other dogs, on cats or any other "domestic animal." 

767.01  Dog owner's liability for damages to persons, domestic animals, or livestock.--Owners of dogs shall be liable for any damage done by their dogs to a person or to any animal included in the definitions of "domestic animal" and "livestock" as provided by section 585.01. 
The Florida definition of "domestic animal" is as follows:

(10) "Domestic animal" shall include any equine or bovine animal, goat, sheep, swine, domestic cat, dog, poultry, ostrich, emu, rhea, or other domesticated beast or bird. The term "animal," as used in this chapter, shall include wild or game animals whenever necessary to effectively control or eradicate dangerous transmissible diseases or pests which threaten the agricultural interests of the state."

Tell him to show you the chickens. If none can be produced Id call the police. Just because a dog is loose doesnt give you the right to shoot anothers dog. This law does not give him the right to shoot your dog either. Just the right to call animal control. But I can say that if you come out your door and see a flurry of feathers and a dog after them youre not gonna take that dog to be too nice. 

You can make this as nasty as you want or you can cut your losses and put up a fence for your next dog. Thats what we had to do. Its costly but WAY more enjoyable for not only yourself but the dog


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## Capt Quirk (Jun 26, 2009)

No matter how you slice it up people, there were mistakes made all around. Regardless, a family has lost a friend.


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## maker4life (Jun 26, 2009)

I do feel for you . A dogs love is hard to match .


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## matthewsman (Jun 26, 2009)

*It's a tough position to be in..*

I hate it the dog was killed...I was a member of a hunting club in Putnam county a few years ago...We had a lot of trouble with dogs running deer on our property..I shot several deer being pushed by dogs,but never shot a dog there.Some of our other members probably did....One day a lady met us(me and a friend ) at the gate and asked us about a dog she was missing...We told her we didn't know anything about it(we didn't)...She went on to tell us that the dog was just like a child to her...My buddy asked her"Do you know where your kids are?"..Fair question..

Bad batteries,hole in the fence,broken chain,etc and so forth...It wasn't the dogs fault,the warden may have been heavy handed....He may have been within his rights...

Fact is,the dog killed something of his and he was protecting his property...Sad situation,hopefully lessons are being learned..


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## matthewsman (Jun 26, 2009)

*?*



WTM45 said:


> Contact an attorney.
> Delete the thread.
> 
> You have been deprived of personal property, and enjoyment of that property.



So has the guy with the chickens.


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Jun 26, 2009)

dakota19652 said:


> On wed june 24 at approx 6:00 pm dale knapp a retired wildlife officer took the life of my girlfriends 3 year old yellow lab,at sometime during the day the battery fell out of the coller that keep her around the house because she loved to run,his story is that she was chasing his chickens <which by the way he allows to run free > she allegedly killed 2 chickens but no one has seen pictures of or evidence of these dead chickens,has she done it before i dont know no one has ever said anthing nor where there any reports about her doing anything like that but she is a dog.what i want to know is if you where a wildlife officer for more than 20 years and you couldn't contain or call the animal control on a 70 pound female lab and your only recourse was to shoot this dog how did you last on your job for 20 years,and by the way i buried the dog and she was shot quartering away from him apparentley running away.and the kicker is the sheriff dept of highlands co is trying to cover it up.we would have been glad to pay for his chickens or any damage she caused .this dog was not only a pet but  a member of the family and i now have a girlfriend that crys every night because the dog slept with her and 2 boys 5 years and 6 years that what to know whe she is going to come home



So what you're trying to say is you went to a Govt school and never really learned any communication skills such as reading, writing, or grammar.

Now to compound this incident, you've publically defamed a gentleman on the internet and you can't prove any of your accusations.

Sorry to hear about the dogs premature demise. Owning a dog is a resonsibility that many people just can't handle.


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## dawg2 (Jun 26, 2009)

91xjgawes said:


> Trying to compare a chicken to a dog is not only ridiculous, its just insane. Chickens are almost not even aware that there in the world. There is no excuse for this man to have shot this dog. AND what gets me is he KILLED the dog. He did not shoot it with a little bird shot, bb, pellet, paintball. And with no warning killed the dog. In my opinion his punishment should be that of the same. This story is sad. I hope your girlfriend does not develop any kind of serious problems from this event, with the huge amount of stress it is possible. I wish you guys the best of luck dealing with it.



You must not have birds.  I will kill any animal that comes on my property and kills my birds.  And it is LEGAL.


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## dawg2 (Jun 26, 2009)

robbie the deer hunter said:


> No comparison in a chickens life and a dogs. Just like said in the above post chickens dont sleep in the bed, ride in the truck, and bark at the door when strangers come and guess what folks??? We dont eat dogs either but i love fried chicken.



Neither does a cow.  So is it OK for a dog to kill a cow?


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## dawg2 (Jun 26, 2009)

robertyb said:


> Get an attorney and file a lawsuit asking for $10,000.00 for the dog and $2,000,000.00 for punitive damages (girlfriend & kids pain and suffering). See what 12 folks have to say about him killing a dog over a chicken.



You better brush up on GA law:

§ 4-8-5. Performing cruel acts on, or harming, maiming or killing dogs
(a) No person shall perform a cruel act on any dog; nor shall any person harm, maim, or kill any dog, or attempt to do so, except that a person may:

(1) Defend his person or property, or the person or property of another, from injury or damage being caused by a dog; or

(2) Kill any dog causing injury or damage to any livestock or poultry.


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## crbrumbelow (Jun 26, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> You must not have birds.  I will kill any animal that comes on my property and kills my birds.  And it is LEGAL.



Yup!!  I got a lot of money in pigeons.  They serve a dual purpose.  Training aid for my pointer and racing.  So far this week two cats, a coon and a fox have fell to the .22.


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> You better brush up on GA law:
> 
> § 4-8-5. Performing cruel acts on, or harming, maiming or killing dogs
> (a) No person shall perform a cruel act on any dog; nor shall any person harm, maim, or kill any dog, or attempt to do so, except that a person may:
> ...



This guy is located in Fl though.


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## Capt Quirk (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> This guy is located in Fl though.


For just a second, I thought you were slamming our school system


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## SarahFair (Jun 26, 2009)

Capt Quirk said:


> For just a second, I thought you were slamming our school system



haha no just pointing out that Ga laws and Fl laws may not be the same.


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## Capt Quirk (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> haha no just pointing out that Ga laws and Fl laws may not be the same.


Yeah, I caught that. A little slow tonight, but I can only blame the Martinis, not the schools


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## dawg2 (Jun 26, 2009)

crbrumbelow said:


> Yup!!  I got a lot of money in pigeons.  They serve a dual purpose.  Training aid for my pointer and racing.  So far this week two cats, a coon and a fox have fell to the .22.



I have Guineas and chickens and they are worth their weight in gold to me.  The guineas keep the ticks cleaned off our property as well as every other bug AND make a great alarm system.  The chickens give me fresh eggs and the rooster is about to go in the oven soon


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## DUD (Jun 26, 2009)

If someone shot my dog because of what it did to a worthless 20$ chicken.....i would be in jail.  Good job keeping your cool and sorry for you loss.


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## dawg2 (Jun 26, 2009)

SarahFair said:


> haha no just pointing out that Ga laws and Fl laws may not be the same.



...here ya go...Florida law:

767.03. Good defense for killing dog

In any action for damages or of a criminal prosecution against any person for killing or injuring a dog, satisfactory proof that said dog had been or was killing any animal included in the definitions of "domestic animal" and "livestock" as provided by s. 585.01 shall constitute a good defense to either of such actions.

CREDIT(S) 

Laws 1901, c. 4978, § 1; Gen.St.1906, § 3144; Rev.Gen.St.1920, § 4959; Comp.Gen.Laws 1927, § 7046; Laws 1979, c. 79-315, § 1; Laws 1994, c. 94- 339, § 2.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 26, 2009)

Bad situation all around. Ya`ll please keep your tempers in check.


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## DUD (Jun 26, 2009)

Looks like its not Mr. Knapps first go round.

By Gary Pinnell  | Highlands Today

Published: June 17, 2008

SEBRING — A Sebring man, originally charged in the boating death of a 19-year-old woman, has been sentenced to 60 days.

State's Attorney Steve Houchin declined to prosecute on the most serious charge, boating under the influence-manslaughter. Instead, William Barbour, 38, 3920 Lakeview Dr., pled guilty to reckless operation of a vessel and received 60 days in Highlands County Jail – with credit for time served – and a $500 fine. He must also pay $238 in court costs, and restitution was ordered.

Florida Fish & Wildlife Lt. Dale Knapp made a fundamental mistake when, after the accident, he and other officers allowed Barbour to go inside his home alone to change clothes, Houchin said. Then they allowed Barbour's wife to drive him to the sheriff's office.

"I've never seen law enforcement officers do that," Houchin said Tuesday, shaking his head.

An internal memo from FF&W Capt. Calvin Davis to Capt. Andy Krause admits that he received a phone call from Knapp. Barbour had not come out of his home after 30 minutes, and Knapp wanted to know "if we had the right to go get him. I explained to Lt. Knapp that unless he had probable cause, he would not be able to enter the residence and regain custody."

Boating Accident
On at 5:45 p.m. on July 15, 2006, Knapp was dispatched to Lake Jackson. Robert Rotolo, 24, of Englewood, the boyfriend of the victim, said Ruth Marie Martin, 222 Parkview Terrace, was riding a tube behind a boat driven by Barbour. Rotolo realized the tube was going to collide with another docked boat, and rolled off.

Martin collided with the boat, and died later at Florida Hospital Heartland. Renzo Iglesias was airlifted to Tampa General Hospital with head, shoulder and hip injuries.

When Knapp questioned Barbour later, Barbour "told me that he had drank only two beers, hours before the accident. I told him that since a death had occurred, he would be under suspicion of being drunk, and he may want to give a breath sample at Highlands County Sheriff's office, just to clear his name."

Conflicting Evidence
Barbour's admission to Knapp that he had drank two beers, and to FF&W Officer Erika Zimmerman that he had drank three beers, "doesn't rise to the level that we needed for conviction," Houchin said. Those statements were made before Barbour was read his Miranda right to remain silent, Knapp's report said.

"During a post Miranda interview with investigator Mike Frantz, the operator with his attorney present advised that post accident, while he was in his residence alone, he consumed two alcoholic beverages," Knapp's report said.

"Two big tumblers of bourbon," Houchin said, holding his hands about six inches apart.

A report indicates Barbour scored .116 and .113. In Florida, a driver is legally drunk with .08.

Knapp's report said Sebring Police Cpl. Robert McConnell noticed a "faint odor of alcohol coming from V1 operator's breath but did not notice any further signs of impairment."

In his own report, McConnell said "Barbour was unemotional in light of the incident. When I spoke with Barbour, I was no longer able to smell the odor of alcoholic beverage."

Houchin said family members may sue Barbour in civil court, and that at least one attorney has been in the courthouse to gather legal papers.


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## zzweims (Jun 26, 2009)

robbie the deer hunter said:


> No comparison in a chickens life and a dogs. .



You've clearly never owned chickens, nor brushed up on the law.  Livestock will trump pets any day, in any state.  I love my dogs more than most, but don't mess with them--or my livestock.


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## dakota19652 (Jun 27, 2009)

ta-ton-ka chips said:


> so what you're trying to say is you went to a govt school and never really learned any communication skills such as reading, writing, or grammar.
> 
> Now to compound this incident, you've publically defamed a gentleman on the internet and you can't prove any of your accusations.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the dogs premature demise. Owning a dog is a resonsibility that many people just can't handle.


i really didn't see any reason for a personal attack on me by you, but being as you opened that can of worms ,let me ask you something what if your child {and i'm saying this thinking that you actually found someone with less inteligence than you to have kids with}what if he decided that he like the sound and the way the neighbors chickens ran aroud after he shot it with his red ryder does that give your neighbor the right to shoot your child.yes i know what you are going to say theres a big difference and yes you are right in a sense,this dog was a cherished member of this family and was cared for as if it was another child,and as far as it being kept up it was out to take care of its business its stays inside.and as far as the public defamation of this idiot i have not yet began!!!!!!!!


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## bigrob82 (Jun 27, 2009)

i eat chicken almost every day and have raised chickens they are not worth a dogs life they are really dumb and usless other than eating in my opinion


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## GA DAWG (Jun 27, 2009)

Where I'm from..If you catch my dogs killing your chickens..You shoot it..I catch your dog killing my chickens..I shoot it..Just how we were raised around these parts..Thats just how it was..Untill all the city slicker move-ins moved here


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## 686wheelman (Jun 27, 2009)

dakota19652 said:


> I will say this i know people have chickens for pets just like people have rats and snakes but when was the last time your chickens slept inthe same bed with your kids or woke you up to someone at you door,this is a grown man is his late 40,s iof he would have knelt down the dog would have came to him and he could have gotten her phone number off her collar she was very docile.i have slowed down in the road to avoid this mans chickens but you can but you lily whit rear end i wont again.


sorry for your loss.  a 70lb dog can be intimidating.


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 27, 2009)

Ta-ton-ka chips said:


> So what you're trying to say is you went to a Govt school and never really learned any communication skills such as reading, writing, or grammar.
> 
> Now to compound this incident, you've publically defamed a gentleman on the internet and you can't prove any of your accusations.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the dogs premature demise. Owning a dog is a resonsibility that many people just can't handle.



Rude and unnecessary.


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## matthewsman (Jun 27, 2009)

*Dude?*



dakota19652 said:


> i really didn't see any reason for a personal attack on me by you, but being as you opened that can of worms ,let me ask you something what if your child {and i'm saying this thinking that you actually found someone with less inteligence than you to have kids with}what if he decided that he like the sound and the way the neighbors chickens ran aroud after he shot it with his red ryder does that give your neighbor the right to shoot your child.yes i know what you are going to say theres a big difference and yes you are right in a sense,this dog was a cherished member of this family and was cared for as if it was another child,and as far as it being kept up it was out to take care of its business its stays inside.and as far as the public defamation of this idiot i have not yet began!!!!!!!!




A dog is a dog,and a member of your family is a relative..not a dog....

As bad as it it is to swallow,the dog is dead due to two things...Owner negligence (first) and an over zealous(perhaps) defender of his livestock..

If the dog were properly restrained/put up/trained/looked after/whatever..It would still be alive.

I highly doubt this LEO would have come into your yard and killed the dog,however,it seems he was within his rights to defend his livestock on his property....

You can't blame batteries or the other person for the death of that dog..As ugly as it is,or obviously as hard to understand,the responsibility for that dogs death lies much closer to home...


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## dawg2 (Jun 27, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> A dog is a dog,and a member of your family is a relative..not a dog....
> 
> As bad as it it is to swallow,the dog is dead due to two things...Owner negligence (first) and an over zealous(perhaps) defender of his livestock..
> 
> ...



I agree 100%


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## wildlands (Jun 27, 2009)

Sorry for the loss of the dog and it was a dog not a member of the family.   PETA has convinced society to think this way so that they can try to stop the kill shelters and play on our emotions to get donations. Love my dog that is why she is controled behind a fence or in her kennel.

 I have said it before and will say it again. There is no fence in an underground fence. A fence keeps things in and out.  A good fence or kennel could have prevented this. I had a neighbor shot his own dog for killing my goats. A dog that kills livestock will do it again given the oppurtunity.


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## sbrown (Jun 28, 2009)

robbie the deer hunter said:


> No comparison in a chickens life and a dogs. Just like said in the above post chickens dont sleep in the bed, ride in the truck, and bark at the door when strangers come and guess what folks??? We dont eat dogs either but i love fried chicken.


Gotta disagree here with you..to some a chicken may actualy be more important, providing a source of food or try telling that to the chicken farmer that relys on them for his income. Now, in this case it seems I would agree with you though, no need in killing the dog.


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## WCK85 (Jun 28, 2009)

If the law won't do anything then try to sue him in civil court.


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## dubblebubble (Jun 28, 2009)

i own 2 dogs and some game chickens. the guy should not have killed the dog. but you people that are comparing the lives of the chikens to the lives of the dog are idiots. 91xjgawes said a chicken didnt even know it was in the world he is king of the idiots my chikens are very smat animals and if he would watch some chikens for a while he would see them do some amazeing things. my dogs mean alot to me but my chikens mean just as much. just my 2 cents


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## dubblebubble (Jun 28, 2009)

for robbie the deer hunters no comprarison post he has earned the rank of 2nd in charge of the idiots


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## siberian1 (Jun 28, 2009)

crbrumbelow said:


> Yup!!  I got a lot of money in pigeons.  They serve a dual purpose.  Training aid for my pointer and racing.  So far this week two cats, a coon and a fox have fell to the .22.



Has anyone on here seen my cats???


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## 91xjgawes (Jun 29, 2009)

dubblebubble said:


> i own 2 dogs and some game chickens. the guy should not have killed the dog. but you people that are comparing the lives of the chikens to the lives of the dog are idiots. 91xjgawes said a chicken didnt even know it was in the world he is king of the idiots my chikens are very smat animals and if he would watch some chikens for a while he would see them do some amazeing things. my dogs mean alot to me but my chikens mean just as much. just my 2 cents



Does name calling help you to sleep better at night??

My Father had chickens far before i was born, and all throughout my childhood. Mclean hatch, Sweater hatch, yellow leg... etc.

and in MY opinion there is no reason for someone to kill a dog, there are far to many other options, and ways to go about it. 

Take some time off from criticizing others, and work on your spelling skills.


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## holton27596 (Jun 29, 2009)

I feel for your loss, but if you dog had been on my property attacking ANYTHING of mine, I would have shot it to.


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## BulldogsNBama (Jun 29, 2009)

In a case like this, I would never use extreme measures without giving a person a chance, but hey that's just me.

I wouldn't have killed someone's dog over something like this. Now that's not saying I wouldn't have peppered his behind with a little bird shot or ran him off.

If it were my neighbor and my chickens, I'd definitely let them know there was a problem and their dog killed my chickens.  If they offered to compensate or make things right, then that's all they can do.

It won't bring the dead chickens back, but you can look at it as hopefully a one time occurance.  Hopefully the dog's owners will take the necessary steps to ensure the dog doesn't make a habit of escaping and that there are no future incidences.

Now if I continued to have problems with the dog or the owners were turning a blind eye and unwilling to take responsiblity, it might be a different story the next time their dog got loose and tried to reek havoc.

May be it's just me, but I wouldn't just kill someone's pet in a situation like this, without first letting them know there's a problem and second giving them the opportunity to fix it.


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## DSGB (Jun 30, 2009)

Sorry to hear of the loss of your dog. We have two dogs, ourselves, so I know what kind of bond you have with them.
While I do not agree with the man shooting your dog, he appears to be within his legal rights in doing so. If your dog was on his property and killing his chickens, then he can legally kill your dog, and there is nothing that can be done. 

Whether you believe he was wrong or that his chickens weren't as important as the life of your dog, the law says otherwise.

Now if his chickens are in the street, as you say, and you want to run them down with your car, then do as you wish. BUT, it's not going to bring your dog back to life or make you a better person for doing so.

I would be mad as heck if someone shot and killed my dog, but I would also understand that _my_ dog is _my_ responsibility and that if _my_ dog were to get out of _my_ yard, then it is _my_ fault and not the fault of the guy protecting his animals. 

This is similar to when some low-life thug breaks into someones house and gets shot. Then the mother is on TV crying saying, "He didn't have to shoot my baby! He wouldn't hurt nobody!"
Well, if momma would have kept an eye on her baby and made sure he was doing what he was supposed to be doing, then it would have never happened.

Likewise, if your dog was in your yard where it is supposed to be, then the man would never have shot your dog. 

Please don't think I am calling your dog a low-life thug or anything like that, because I don't know you or your dog, just the circumstances that you have told us.

Again, sorry for your loss. I know you can never replace that dog, but I hope one day you get another dog for your family to enjoy.


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## urdaddyjeep (Jun 30, 2009)

there are alot of things this guy could have done.. fired a warning shot.. shot next to the dog.. anything but a kill shot.. I have lived on farms and had yotes running calves and some stray dogs.. both have felt the 22-250.. but I would never shot a dog that I know lived near me for chasin chickens... calves now he might find out what a 1200fps pellet feels like.. 
I just dont see killin a good dog over a $12 chicken..  and nothing is going to change my mind on this.


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## crbrumbelow (Jul 1, 2009)

A dog is a dog.  They eat em in other countries.  Hm wonder if they taste like chicken.


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## wildlands (Jul 1, 2009)

Somthing no one has said and we do not know for sure. But he might have been loosing chickens already and just never could catch the animal doing it. He comes out sees this dog chasing his chickens and shots. Fit of rage over finally seeing what he thought was the dog resposible who knows. Over react who knows, we have one side of the story.


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## Nugefan (Jul 1, 2009)

wildlands said:


> Somthing no one has said and we do not know for sure. But he might have been loosing chickens already and just never could catch the animal doing it. He comes out sees this dog chasing his chickens and shots. Fit of rage over finally seeing what he thought was the dog resposible who knows. Over react who knows, we have one side of the story.



kinda like a divorce ...

her side , his side .... and the truth ....


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## joshguest (Jul 1, 2009)

Sorry for your loss.  Even though the dog was in the wrong it should have been delt with in a better way . My great grandpa lost his temper over a guy killin one of his prize coondogs ,he shot n killed the man ! He prob wished he would've took the time to think it over. I would have been mad also but its not worth all that! Just goes to show when people get upset they sometimes take it a lil TO FAR!!!


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## SarahFair (Jul 1, 2009)

wildlands said:


> Somthing no one has said and we do not know for sure. But he might have been loosing chickens already and just never could catch the animal doing it. He comes out sees this dog chasing his chickens and shots. Fit of rage over finally seeing what he thought was the dog resposible who knows. Over react who knows, we have one side of the story.



I was wondering this myself. Sometimes you just get fed up


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## Zsavage81 (Jul 1, 2009)

It's already been said but I second the notion that there would be serious consequences if someone ever hurt my dog for any reason whether they were legally justified or not (especially if not). This dude didn't have to kill the dog and what did he really gain by doing so? He's still out a chicken and now has a neighbor that hates him I'm sure. His agenda would have been better served to walk over and ask for $20 for the dead bird.

              My neighbor is an ex cop with the biggest God complex you've ever seen and told me the first week I moved into my house that if he ever caught my dog in his yard for even a second he'd kill her. So I had to let him know real quick that he better pray for her safety every night before he goes to bed because if she ever ended up missing, injured, or dead; I'd cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked. I'm not sure there is enough restraint in the world to keep me from doing so. Dude is a real whack job and has threatened all kinds of stuff since I bought the house and thinks he can just come up with any story he wants and his connections at the PD will keep him out of jail. Unfortunately they wouldn't keep him out of the morgue. When I read your story I instantly can relate to the situation as this type of thing is one of my biggest fears.


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## dawg2 (Jul 1, 2009)

Zsavage81 said:


> It's already been said but I second the notion that there would be serious consequences if someone ever hurt my dog for any reason whether they were legally justified or not (especially if not). This dude didn't have to kill the dog and what did he really gain by doing so? He's still out a chicken and now has a neighbor that hates him I'm sure. His agenda would have been better served to walk over and ask for $20 for the dead bird.
> 
> My neighbor is an ex cop with the biggest God complex you've ever seen and told me the first week I moved into my house that if he ever caught my dog in his yard for even a second he'd kill her. So I had to let him know real quick that he better pray for her safety every night before he goes to bed because if she ever ended up missing, injured, or dead; I'd cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked. I'm not sure there is enough restraint in the world to keep me from doing so. Dude is a real whack job and has threatened all kinds of stuff since I bought the house and thinks he can just come up with any story he wants and his connections at the PD will keep him out of jail. Unfortunately they wouldn't keep him out of the morgue. When I read your story I instantly can relate to the situation as this type of thing is one of my biggest fears.



Killing a human over a dog (that is on another's property) makes no sense IMHO.


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## SFStephens (Jul 2, 2009)

Let me take a look at some of the responses so far:

Sue him?  Yeah, that's what we need, more lawsuits.

Compairing dogs to children?  Maybe the emotional attachment, but come on.  Get real.

Slandering the man on a public forum?  As stated before, hopefully you have alot of evidence to back this up.

Attempting to slander him further for a case he was involved with?  What relevance did that have on this?

And last but not least, a little hypocrisy.  Some are up in arms over this man killing a dog in supposed defence of his little insignificant chickens, yet they would kill another human over a dog?  Wow

That about sum it up?  I am a dog lover as much as the next guy, but I also understand that if my dogs were to ever end up on someone else's property there is a high likelyhood that they might end up dead.  Would I be happy about it?  Absolutely not.  But I would be mad at myself for letting it happen.  Dogs will be dogs and it is up to us to maintain control.  That is why my dogs are kenneled unless me or some member of my family is playing with/supervising them.  It's called being a responsible pet owner.  I am sorry for your loss and I feel for her kids, but these things happen.  Chickens may be insignificant to you, but they apparently aren't to him.


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## Just 1 More (Jul 2, 2009)

Zsavage81 said:


> It's already been said but I second the notion that there would be serious consequences if someone ever hurt my dog for any reason whether they were legally justified or not (especially if not). This dude didn't have to kill the dog and what did he really gain by doing so? He's still out a chicken and now has a neighbor that hates him I'm sure. His agenda would have been better served to walk over and ask for $20 for the dead bird.
> 
> My neighbor is an ex cop with the biggest God complex you've ever seen and told me the first week I moved into my house that if he ever caught my dog in his yard for even a second he'd kill her. So I had to let him know real quick that he better pray for her safety every night before he goes to bed because if she ever ended up missing, injured, or dead; I'd cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked. I'm not sure there is enough restraint in the world to keep me from doing so. Dude is a real whack job and has threatened all kinds of stuff since I bought the house and thinks he can just come up with any story he wants and his connections at the PD will keep him out of jail. Unfortunately they wouldn't keep him out of the morgue. When I read your story I instantly can relate to the situation as this type of thing is one of my biggest fears.



WOW.. and you say your neighbor is the "WACK JOB" ????


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## Zsavage81 (Jul 2, 2009)

Just 1 More said:


> WOW.. and you say your neighbor is the "WACK JOB" ????



yea, I'm a reasonable, level headed, well educated, and successful person. I don't cause trouble or bother anyone, BUT I'm not going to be threatened, bullied, or intimidated by ANYONE either. The threat to kill my dog was our first conversation ever, that's how he introduced himself, and she had never and has never set foot on his property anyway which made it all that much more uncalled for. Dude has also threatened he was gonna come over and fight me about a dozen times (but ultimately never has the balls to), threatened to kill me, threatened to kill my dog, and threatened to "slap" my wife. The reason he's an ex cop and not a cop is because of a felony domestic violence charge that he didn't get convected for but was forced into retirement over (according to the woman he was beating on). So yea man HE is a whack job, and if he ever does follow through with any of his threats i might have to turn into one too (according to you) inorder defend myself and my property. 

All of this is besides the point though, not trying to hijack the thread, its not about me or my situation just trying to extend my condolences and let him know other people relate to his situation and feel his pain. Sorry for the loss brother.


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## Just 1 More (Jul 2, 2009)

Zsavage81 said:


> yea, I'm a reasonable, level headed, well educated, and successful person. I don't cause trouble or bother anyone, BUT I'm not going to be threatened, bullied, or intimidated by ANYONE either. The threat to kill my dog was our first conversation ever, that's how he introduced himself, and she had never and has never set foot on his property anyway which made it all that much more uncalled for. Dude has also threatened he was gonna come over and fight me about a dozen times (but ultimately never has the balls to), threatened to kill me, threatened to kill my dog, and threatened to "slap" my wife. The reason he's an ex cop and not a cop is because of a felony domestic violence charge that he didn't get arrested for but was forced into retirement over (according to the woman he was beating on). So yea man HE is a whack job, and if he ever does follow through with any of his threats i might have to turn into one too (according to you) inorder defend myself and my property.
> 
> All of this is besides the point though, not trying to hijack the thread, its not about me or my situation just trying to extend my condolences and let him know other people relate to his situation and feel his pain. Sorry for the loss brother.





> I'd cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked. I'm not sure there is enough restraint in the world to keep me from doing so.


 Does not sound like a very level headed educated person.. defending yourself in your home is one thing,, but, to "cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked" is definitly on the wack job side of things


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## Zsavage81 (Jul 2, 2009)

Just 1 More said:


> Does not sound like a very level headed educated person.. defending yourself in your home is one thing,, but, to "cut him down in the street in front of anybody that wanted to watch no questions asked" is definitly on the wack job side of things



Like my grandfather always said, "opinions are like butt holes", obviously you don't like mine, and I could care less about yours. Get off your soap box and focus on this man's thread, don't get off topic and hijack it with this nonsense. Your combining his situation with mine, they both have completely different sets of circumstances and the whole point was that i can put myself in his shoes and can't even imagine the hurt, pain, loss, and feelings he must be going through. I'd appreciate it if we could leave it at that and respect this mans loss.


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## Just 1 More (Jul 2, 2009)

Zsavage81 said:


> Like my grandfather always said, "opinions are like butt holes", obviously you don't like mine, and I could care less about yours. Get off your soap box and focus on this man's thread, don't get off topic and hijack it with this nonsense. Your combining his situation with mine, they both have completely different sets of circumstances and the whole point was that i can put myself in his shoes and can't even imagine the hurt, pain, loss, and feelings he must be going through. I'd appreciate it if we could leave it at that and respect this mans loss.



Hopefully he'll take better care of his next pet


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