# Having a perfectly tuned bow! Over rated?



## dusty80 (Jul 26, 2010)

Am I the only one that thinks this tuning stuff has been took to the extreme? I mean we have paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, walk back tuning, broadhead tuning........ I personally can not shoot a bow that is paper tuned and shooting "bullet holes". The windage on my sight will be maxed out and still not have enough adjustment. So I have to move my rest. At 10' I'm tearing the paper something terrible. But, at 10 yards the arrow had corrected itself, shooting "bullet holes" and looks like a lazer headed down range. I've talked to several other people that have had this same problem. The only way I have found to fix it is put a spacer one both the top and bottom cam, or cam and idler. I don't mess with shimming anymore. I just shoot the bows the way they come and have no problems other than I can't say my bow shoots "bullet holes".


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## lungbuster123 (Jul 26, 2010)

I like my bows to be tuned to the "extreme" because it means you are getting the most out of it!


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah, it will have corrected itself at 10 yards. 

I'd bet you could carry your bow to 12 Point and Steve Pittman would change your opinion on paper tuning and broadhead tuning.


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## Gaducker (Jul 26, 2010)

Stop shootin 3D and you will quit worring about paper tuning and all that jazz. I spent to many hours at the range when I was shootin Now I just put a bigger fletching on it if it dont fly straight.


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## notnksnemor (Jul 26, 2010)

Gaducker said:


> Stop shootin 3D and you will quit worring about paper tuning and all that jazz. I spent to many hours at the range when I was shootin Now I just put a bigger fletching on it if it dont fly straight.



And I shoot at ducks higher up if I can't get them to decoy. 
Neither of us would be getting what we could out of our equipment.


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## dusty80 (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm getting the same thing out my bow either way. Same speed, same groups. And gaducker..... It has nothing to do with shooting 3d. My 3d bow shoots the same way, and finds a lot of 12's.


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 26, 2010)

dustin_horne said:


> I'm getting the same thing out my bow either way. Same speed, same groups. And gaducker..... It has nothing to do with shooting 3d. My 3d bow shoots the same way, and finds a lot of 12's.



Are you still shooting Spitfires?


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## Gaducker (Jul 26, 2010)

NOTNKSNEMOR said:


> And I shoot at ducks higher up if I can't get them to decoy.
> Neither of us would be getting what we could out of our equipment.



In the decoys , out the decoys, on the water, on a log, on the bow of the boat it dont matter to me. You cant kill it if you dont pull the trigger.  I just like to hear it go boom and smell the gunpowder in the cold morning air.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 26, 2010)

The main reason I want the powerstroke of my bow's strings perfectly centered behind the arrow is penetration, plain and simple.  

I've done quite a lot of walk back tuning in the past just because I'm a tinkerer.  Having said that if I get a bullet hole at 9 and 15 feet I rarely have to mess with anything to get broadheads to hit with my field tips.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 26, 2010)

The only people who I have ever heard say that bow tuning was over rated were shooting porrly tuned bows. The #1 factor in maximizing penetration is arrow flight or tuning. I personally feel like it is ultimately important. Shoot what you want the way you want, but the 3-D guys who get wrapped up in the overrated act of tuning bows do it because they have learned enuff about the equipment to understand the advantage of it. When ever you lose an animal, don't blame it on your broadhead.


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## kcausey (Jul 26, 2010)

I can honestly say i have never shot an arrow through paper.  I messed arond with a little bit of walk back tuning.  I line things up, shoot with both eyes open, my arrows fly like darts, always have.  My sight is about 3/16" off-set to the outside.  If my arrow, out of every bow i have owned, hits what i am aiming at from 10-60 yards with no wobble, fishtail, whipping, or any erratic flight....why in the world am i worried about the way a piece of paper tears at 10 feet?

To answer your question Dustin, IMO yes, this tuning stff has gone to an extreme.  If i can spend $200 labor and get another 8fps, no BowTurbow involved, then i'm saving my cash...lol

and as far as penetration goes, i could care less how far into the dirt my arrow sinks after it slices through a rib cage.

I'd worry much more about form than my bow being in tune.....the best shooters i personally know, whether in the back yard or on the 3d range, pay little attention to these extreme tuning practices....they just worry about how the bow feels and points, then squeeze the trigger.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 26, 2010)

What is extreme about shooting an arrow through a piece of paper or doing a walk back tune?  It is pretty simple stuff from where I sit.  If it tears this way, I do something to fix it.  If I was tuning my bow while riding a dirtbike past my paper rack, now that would be extreme.

I usually have my bows shooting bulletholes and grouping great inside a couple of hours.  Nothing extreme about it.


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## kcausey (Jul 26, 2010)

DaddyPaul said:


> What is extreme about shooting an arrow through a piece of paper or doing a walk back tune?  It is pretty simple stuff from where I sit.  If it tears this way, I do something to fix it.  If I was tuning my bow while riding a dirtbike past my paper rack, now that would be extreme.
> 
> I usually have my bows shooting bulletholes and grouping great inside a couple of hours.  Nothing extreme about it.




I'm not saying paper tuning or walk back is extreme, i guess i should have made that clear....that's standard issue for folks that have trouble setting up, or folks that want their stuff as "perfect" as they can get it.

I would imagine you're like me, you get a new, bare bow, you can put a sight on it witha correct nocking point and be within a foot or so at 20 yards....a few more shots and you're grouping tight....that's how things work for me anyway.  If i really wanna know what my arrow is doing i will back up to 80+ yards.....with no wind, that tells the tail better than paper in my opinion.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 26, 2010)

kcausey said:


> I can honestly say i have never shot an arrow through paper.  I messed arond with a little bit of walk back tuning.  I line things up, shoot with both eyes open, my arrows fly like darts, always have.  My sight is about 3/16" off-set to the outside.  If my arrow, out of every bow i have owned, hits what i am aiming at from 10-60 yards with no wobble, fishtail, whipping, or any erratic flight....why in the world am i worried about the way a piece of paper tears at 10 feet?
> 
> To answer your question Dustin, IMO yes, this tuning stff has gone to an extreme.  If i can spend $200 labor and get another 8fps, no BowTurbow involved, then i'm saving my cash...lol
> 
> ...



Hmm, well all of the professional archers I know feel quite the opposite. If you ever read article by some of the best, Levi Morgan, Dan McCarthy, Darrin Christianberry, Chance Beaboueff, Nathan Brooks, Tim Gillingham they are very much worried about perfectly tuned bows. I remember reading about the process Reo Wilde goes through when getting a bow ready for Vegas and it shows what the pros think about bow tuning. I'm not saying your wrong, but the guys I know who are the very best, are also the most articular about bow tune. A ten minute conversation with Nathan Brooks will open your eyes about just how badly most bows are tuned.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 26, 2010)

An untuned or poorly tuned bow will still drop arrows in the dot if you do the exact same thing each shot.  I think a properly tuned bow will allow you a little more room for getting in the way of the shot and still have your arrows end up close to where you want them to go.

KC,
Yeah dude, I can make sure my DW/DL is where I want it, throw in a rest, sight, tie in a nockset and loop and be slamming arrows inside of an hour.  To me it is fun to see just how good I can get a bow to shoot.  I find nothing about it to be similar to work, I love shooting my bows so why not tweak on them in the process?


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## dusty80 (Jul 27, 2010)

Some of you are missing my point. I didn't buy my first bow yesterday and decide I'm going to be a bowhunter. I've been playing the game awhile. My arrows are not tail whipping and flipping toward the target. If I didn't tell you my bow wasn't paper tuned you wouldn't know it.  It just don't shoot bullet holes at 10 and in'.  Bigrnyrs I understand my equipment as well as anyone does, and won't be casting blame on anything but myself for last game. Jody, I'm going back fixed blades this year.


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## work2play (Jul 27, 2010)

Dus, you shoot a Mathews, its more tuned out the box than James will ever get that Bowtech


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 27, 2010)

DaddyPaul said:


> An untuned or poorly tuned bow will still drop arrows in the dot if you do the exact same thing each shot.



Exactly right Paul. When I started bowhunting in 95, I had not the slightest clue about a bow. My brother in law shot with his fingers and used the flipper rest that the finger shooters used. Even though I used a release, I bought a flipper rest under his advice and went to shooting. I was drilling bull eyes at 20 yards all summer. A week before the season I screwed on my broadheads. Man, it looked like Phil Niekro throwing knuckle balls out there !!!! Those fixed blade broadheads were planing all over the place like something fierce !!!!!!!!!! Now if I had shot that bow through paper, I would have had a terrible left tear but it was still accurate with field tips. I think that is why expandables are so popular, they let you get away with tuning issues.


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## gobbleinwoods (Jul 27, 2010)

Are you shooting a Guardian?  I had the same issue in 07.  10' bad 10 yards no tear in the paper.   The shop called and was told that was very typical and start paper tuning no closer than 5 yards.  




dustin_horne said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this tuning stuff has been took to the extreme? I mean we have paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, walk back tuning, broadhead tuning........ I personally can not shoot a bow that is paper tuned and shooting "bullet holes". The windage on my sight will be maxed out and still not have enough adjustment. So I have to move my rest. At 10' I'm tearing the paper something terrible. But, at 10 yards the arrow had corrected itself, shooting "bullet holes" and looks like a lazer headed down range. I've talked to several other people that have had this same problem. The only way I have found to fix it is put a spacer one both the top and bottom cam, or cam and idler. I don't mess with shimming anymore. I just shoot the bows the way they come and have no problems other than I can't say my bow shoots "bullet holes".


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 27, 2010)

Paper tuning can be quite reliable. However the paper should be checked at 5,7,10,13,17, and 20 yards to get a true picture. Bare shaft tuning is a very good way to tune your arrow. Weak or stiff spined arrows will normally show them selves that way. I never tinkered with "walkback" tuning, however I do tune my bow with a verticle and horizonal plane at long distances. That will only work if your sights third axis is set properly. Some bows have geometry that makes them nearly inpossible to tune with paper. Some people can't shoot a bullet hole because of form. I have set bows up that were shooting bullet holes until the person that owns it shoots it. Starting with getting the bow in factory spec is a step in the right direction.


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## Larry Rooks (Jul 27, 2010)

I do beleive in tuning, but I do NOT paper tune.  If you think about it, the arrow is flexing as it comes off of the
bow.  This in itself can prevent a perfect bullet hole unless
far enough away so that the flexing has stopped.  I use a
level, both string and arrow level to tune mine.  I set the rest perfectly level, and the arrow dead level with the rest.
I do not use a laser to set center shot unless customer
requires, but set the arrow dead center of the string.  Once this is done, mine usually shoots great, no wobble or kick anywhere in the arrows path


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jul 27, 2010)

My first experience with a well tuned bow was a revelation.  I went from 8" of penetration to pass throughs on every shot.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 27, 2010)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> My first experience with a well tuned bow was a revelation.  I went from 8" of penetration to pass throughs on every shot.



that's what I always say on here. I pass thru everything. I take the first shot at the vitals on a white tail. I go through Shoulders, have shot them from hip to stern useing the dreaded Rage two blade. A perfectly tuned arrow/bow will make all the difference in the world.


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## Jim54 (Jul 28, 2010)

I guess that it is kinda like a car, a poorly tuned car will still get you from point A to piont B but not as effeciently as a well tuned one. In bow hunting we want an arrow to arrive on target traveling as straight and as fast as the bow can deliver and that is best done with a properly tuned bow.

Having said that, I do agree that in bow hunting the difference between a "perfect" tune and a marginally tuned one will show little effect given a decent amount of fletching, plus or minus a couple of inches will still usually result in a recovered kill.

One last point, shooting at a deer from a stand is a lot different that standing at the practice lane throwing arrows into a target. Under hunting conditions we can have a less that perfect release. A poor release will have less affect with a better tuned bow.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 28, 2010)

If you shoot the same way every time, your arrow will hit the same place every time. However the arrow could be flying very porrly. Penetration is not caused by your release but by the flight of the arrow. The weight of the arrow pushes the broadhead thruogh the target. If the arrow is not perfect in it's flight and is not directly behind the broadhead on impact energy is wasted and the arrow will not penetrate as well. This is a result of a properly tuned bow. If you think you can shoot an arrow going nearly 300fps and tell with your naked eye that the arrow is flying perfectly straight you are wrong. Your talking fractions of a second. But hey, if you thing you can clap a rest on, eye ball every thing and go to the woods.........good luck. You might have been successful like this in the past but I know this, it will tell on you at some point, not if but when.


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## G Duck (Jul 28, 2010)

Gaducker said:


> In the decoys , out the decoys, on the water, on a log, on the bow of the boat it dont matter to me. You cant kill it if you dont pull the trigger.  I just like to hear it go boom and smell the gunpowder in the cold morning air.



I think I have seen you at Rhetts


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jul 28, 2010)

BIGRNYRS said:


> If you shoot the same way every time, your arrow will hit the same place every time. However the arrow could be flying very porrly. Penetration is not caused by your release but by the flight of the arrow. The weight of the arrow pushes the broadhead thruogh the target. If the arrow is not perfect in it's flight and is not directly behind the broadhead on impact energy is wasted and the arrow will not penetrate as well. This is a result of a properly tuned bow. If you think you can shoot an arrow going nearly 300fps and tell with your naked eye that the arrow is flying perfectly straight you are wrong. Your talking fractions of a second. But hey, if you thing you can clap a rest on, eye ball every thing and go to the woods.........good luck. You might have been successful like this in the past but I know this, it will tell on you at some point, not if but when.



Sound advice!


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 28, 2010)

Imagine trying to drive a 16 penny nail in a 2X4 for a second.  Would you get it done quicker by hitting it directly in line with the shank of the nail or by hitting it with glancing blows?

Same thing for an arrow.  You want the arrow to be launched directly in line with the powerstroke of the bow, this WILL give you the best penetration possible out of your rig.


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## kcausey (Jul 28, 2010)

BIGRNYRS said:


> If you shoot the same way every time, your arrow will hit the same place every time. However the arrow could be flying very porrly. Penetration is not caused by your release but by the flight of the arrow. The weight of the arrow pushes the broadhead thruogh the target. If the arrow is not perfect in it's flight and is not directly behind the broadhead on impact energy is wasted and the arrow will not penetrate as well. This is a result of a properly tuned bow. If you think you can shoot an arrow going nearly 300fps and tell with your naked eye that the arrow is flying perfectly straight you are wrong. Your talking fractions of a second. But hey, if you thing you can clap a rest on, eye ball every thing and go to the woods.........good luck. You might have been successful like this in the past but I know this, it will tell on you at some point, not if but when.




While i feel like that was aimed directly at me, i'm not gonna entertain it too much, because you are talking completely out of your rear end...
All the factory specs match up on my bows, the center shot's are measured to the T, the arrow is leveled, everything is in time, nocking points are where they should be.

You make it sound as if i went and grabbed a bow off the rack at a pawn shop and put a rest and sight on it without checking anything out, then sent an arrow downrange flipping and twirling and got lucky to hit what i was aiming at.  Both of my rigs put out or exceed the numbers they should.  I didn't start this game last week either, and while i will not claim to be anywhere near the best shot here, i can promise you i'm at least in the top 10%.   When i have walk-back tuned, my arrows hit the same lateral line from 10-70 or so yards....that tells me my stuff is lined up.  Good form alone will not carry that far.  Just because i haven't oogled and stressed out over paper tuning does not mean i don't know what i'm doing.

I will admit, when i started out, at a mild 12 yrs old, i had no clue what i was doing and had never been to a bow shop.  I was shooting 31" 2018s out of a 55# apache warrior, my arrow did everything but fly like it was supposed to, but it still hit the target.  About 3 years later i had a bit of a revelation when i actually learned that all that stuff is supposed to be in line.  IMO to get some of today's bows to paper tune, you'd had to shoot an arrow wayyyy to the over-spined side.  A buddy of mine can shoot 400 easton shafts like darts all day long to 60 yards, but he'd need a 300 shaft to paper tuned at 10ft....a 340 wouldn't even hold up at 69lbs, 27.5" shafts.


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## kcausey (Jul 28, 2010)

And if all else fails I'll just put you behind the throttle of a 22,000ton Rock train downhill to Macon...


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## Jim54 (Jul 28, 2010)

BIGRNYRS said:


> If you shoot the same way every time, your arrow will hit the same place every time. However the arrow could be flying very porrly. Penetration is not caused by your release but by the flight of the arrow. The weight of the arrow pushes the broadhead thruogh the target. If the arrow is not perfect in it's flight and is not directly behind the broadhead on impact energy is wasted and the arrow will not penetrate as well. This is a result of a properly tuned bow. If you think you can shoot an arrow going nearly 300fps and tell with your naked eye that the arrow is flying perfectly straight you are wrong. Your talking fractions of a second. But hey, if you thing you can clap a rest on, eye ball every thing and go to the woods.........good luck. You might have been successful like this in the past but I know this, it will tell on you at some point, not if but when.



A poor release / torque can have the same effect as a poor tune, the arrow does not leave the bow straight. Therefore slower, less penetration and possibly a missed target. I don't know how many times I've tried to help guys paper tune their bows only to watch them thump or jerk the release thus showing a different tear everytime.


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## alligood729 (Jul 28, 2010)

dustin_horne said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this tuning stuff has been took to the extreme? I mean we have paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, walk back tuning, broadhead tuning........ I personally can not shoot a bow that is paper tuned and shooting "bullet holes". The windage on my sight will be maxed out and still not have enough adjustment. So I have to move my rest. At 10' I'm tearing the paper something terrible. But, at 10 yards the arrow had corrected itself, shooting "bullet holes" and looks like a lazer headed down range. I've talked to several other people that have had this same problem. The only way I have found to fix it is put a spacer one both the top and bottom cam, or cam and idler. I don't mess with shimming anymore. I just shoot the bows the way they come and have no problems other than I can't say my bow shoots "bullet holes".



I've been looking at this thread for 3 days, thinking "I'm seeing something here, but can't figure it out"...so I'm a little slow, sue me....lol
Dustin, I know you can shoot, not from seeing you shoot, but from others that have, and I believe them. Not questioning that at all. But the one statement you made above.."at 10yds it had corrected itself".......doesn't it seem that if it's not flying dead straight at 10ft, that having to correct itself in flight is taking away some of the thump further out? Again, not questioning your equipment or shooting, I have no doubts about that. Just askin that's all.

I don't think that paper tuning or walkback tuning is over rated, if it works for a shooter, good, if a shooter doesn't get that involved, good for them too. 

I just like the thought of knowing that when the arrow leaves any of my bows,

 it is on the straightest track to my target, whether it's a 12 ring or a double lunger......

And Kip, where the heck you been????


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## Huntinfool (Jul 28, 2010)

There is no question that you can hit the target area every single time with a bow that is not perfectly tuned (walk back, paper, etc).  

The is also no question that the same arrow shot from the same distance out of a perfectly tuned bow will hit the target area harder every time.  The physics of flight demand it.  

Yes, you can be consistent and consistently deadly without tuning to the nth degree.  But your arrow will fly straighter and hit harder with a good tuning job.

I think what the OP is getting at is that maybe some folks take it to a level that just isn't necessary.  I would say that you begin to see diminishing returns after you've done some basic tuning on a bow.  Yes, you might increase accuracy and penetration with each additional step.  But it will likely be marginal and increasingly un-noticable as you progress.


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## kcausey (Jul 28, 2010)

alligood729 said:


> I've been looking at this thread for 3 days, thinking "I'm seeing something here, but can't figure it out"...so I'm a little slow, sue me....lol
> Dustin, I know you can shoot, not from seeing you shoot, but from others that have, and I believe them. Not questioning that at all. But the one statement you made above.."at 10yds it had corrected itself".......doesn't it seem that if it's not flying dead straight at 10ft, that having to correct itself in flight is taking away some of the thump further out? Again, not questioning your equipment or shooting, I have no doubts about that. Just askin that's all.
> 
> I don't think that paper tuning or walkback tuning is over rated, if it works for a shooter, good, if a shooter doesn't get that involved, good for them too.
> ...



I been around.....working 65hr weeks.....

I think Dustin is talking more about paradox teari g the paper at ten feet.


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## Gaducker (Jul 28, 2010)

G Duck said:


> I think I have seen you at Rhetts





Not Me......


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## crawdad24 (Jul 28, 2010)

call me crazy but if you paper tune a bow and arrow combintation fairly close and the arrow is flying perfect.... I dont see it getting down range twenty yards then kicking sideways!


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 29, 2010)

Kcausey, sounds to me like you do tune your bows from your responce to my post. Before that you said that you "line things up" and have "messed around" with walk back tuning. Then in your responce to me you added that you lever the arrow, measure the center shot ect. I was saying that you can't always eyeball the bow "line things up" and think the bow is tuned. You didn't give me all the info. Not trying to tear down your play house or call you out dude, I was just sayin. I didn't make it sound like you grab a bow at the pawn shop throw a rest on it and go hunting, you did. How am I talking out of my rear end? I'm wrong by saying that arrow flight is important to penetration? That you can not tell if an arrow is minnowing, or fishtailing with your naked eye at nearly 300fps? I'm not sure what you meant. But look I'm not trying to start an arguemnet with you. I talked to you several times before my first trip to Sapelo, you were very helpful. I think you are a nice guy, but read your post that I qouted.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 29, 2010)

Jim54 said:


> A poor release / torque can have the same effect as a poor tune, the arrow does not leave the bow straight. Therefore slower, less penetration and possibly a missed target. I don't know how many times I've tried to help guys paper tune their bows only to watch them thump or jerk the release thus showing a different tear everytime.


Youre absolutely right, but I was adressing the arrow flight thing. I got you, but not important to the point I was trying to make.


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## HAPPY DAD (Jul 29, 2010)

Take that paper and wipe yer arse with it.

the guy at the proshop here in town paper tunes and sends em out the door claiming they are ready.

Well i have learned the hard way thats Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.

Its a start but that is all


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 29, 2010)

Some of y'all have mentioned archer's paradox affecting paper tuning. It's funny because I've often wondered that myself. This article says to start at 10 feet, that way your arrow will have time to recover before it hits the paper.

http://lakeviewarchery.org/paper_tuning.htm


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## fourwinds (Jul 29, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> Yeah, it will have corrected itself at 10 yards.
> 
> I'd bet you could carry your bow to 12 Point and Steve Pittman would change your opinion on paper tuning and broadhead tuning.



I took my bow to steve pittman. Drove an hour and a half to get there. Must have caught him at a busy time because the brace height was off by 3/4" and the axle to axle was off by 1/2". The timing cord on my rest was also making contact with my arrow fletchings. Guess he was in a hurry to get hom that evening.


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## Jim54 (Jul 29, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> Some of y'all have mentioned archer's paradox affecting paper tuning. It's funny because I've often wondered that myself. This article says to start at 10 feet, that way your arrow will have time to recover before it hits the paper.
> 
> http://lakeviewarchery.org/paper_tuning.htm



It is interesting, of course spine, drag and head weight have an influence also. The first thing I suggest to guys who are having trouble tuning is to have someone else shoot it as well. I have a buddy who bought a used 9mm Browning pistol and was convinced that it was "shot out" because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. I asked to shoot it and shot great groups at 25 yards; more often the Indian than we sometimes (what to?)think.


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## reylamb (Jul 29, 2010)

Jim54 said:


> It is interesting, of course spine, drag and head weight have an influence also. The first thing I suggest to guys who are having trouble tuning is to have someone else shoot it as well. I have a buddy who bought a used 9mm Browning pistol and was convinced that it was "shot out" because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. I asked to shoot it and shot great groups at 25 yards; more often the Indian than we sometimes (what to?)think.



Which is why I do not buy into the whole mystical sending a bow to someone to have it "super tuned."  

The bow must be tuned to the shooter, although ideally the shooter would be tuned to the bow.....but that is an entirely different discussion.  I could throw a bow in a hooter shooter and have it putting arrow after arrow in the same holes, but hand that bow to the owner and they may not hit water from a boat.

Is having a "perfectly" tuned bow overrated?  Nope.  Can one go out and kill deer without a bow that is "perfectly" tuned?  Yes.


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jul 29, 2010)

reylamb said:


> Can one go out and kill deer without a bow that is "perfectly" tuned?  Yes.




Darn tootin'!  And you'll get what I was getting when I started out - which is 6" - 8" of penetration and a deer that runs off with your arrow flopping out of his side.  Tuning is everything.


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## reylamb (Jul 29, 2010)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> Darn tootin'!  And you'll get what I was getting when I started out - which is 6" - 8" of penetration and a deer that runs off with your arrow flopping out of his side.  Tuning is everything.



That depends on how close one can get with the eyeball tuning method


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## kcausey (Jul 29, 2010)

BIGRNYRS said:


> Kcausey, sounds to me like you do tune your bows from your responce to my post. Before that you said that you "line things up" and have "messed around" with walk back tuning. Then in your responce to me you added that you lever the arrow, measure the center shot ect. I was saying that you can't always eyeball the bow "line things up" and think the bow is tuned. You didn't give me all the info. Not trying to tear down your play house or call you out dude, I was just sayin. I didn't make it sound like you grab a bow at the pawn shop throw a rest on it and go hunting, you did. How am I talking out of my rear end? I'm wrong by saying that arrow flight is important to penetration? That you can not tell if an arrow is minnowing, or fishtailing with your naked eye at nearly 300fps? I'm not sure what you meant. But look I'm not trying to start an arguemnet with you. I talked to you several times before my first trip to Sapelo, you were very helpful. I think you are a nice guy, but read your post that I qouted.



We're good man, promise...


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## stev (Jul 29, 2010)

Go ahead ,just super tune your bows and be done with it .


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 29, 2010)

Just for giggles I shot my bow through paper from 3, 6, 9 and 12 feet to see what kind of holes I got.  As you can see even from as close as 3 feet, bulletholes.  I can also tell you this bow will drop fixed blade heads with field tips all day long.  Just thought I'd share........

P.S.  Don't laugh at my tuner, I was in a hurry and the barstool was handy.............


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 29, 2010)

DaddyPaul said:


> Just for giggles I shot my bow through paper from 3, 6, 9 and 12 feet to see what kind of holes I got.  As you can see even from as close as 3 feet, bulletholes.  I can also tell you this bow will drop fixed blade heads with field tips all day long.  Just thought I'd share........
> 
> P.S.  Don't laugh at my tuner, I was in a hurry and the barstool was handy.............



Well Paul, since you brought it up, I just had to go grab my bow and try it too.  No problems here with archer's paradox affecting the tear. About 3 ft. from tip of arrow.  Oh yeah, a step ladder works good too.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 29, 2010)

Gotta work with what'cha got Jody.  Looks like you're ready brother!


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 29, 2010)

A step ladder has served me well from time to time. I was useing a portable clothing rack til my smokin hot wife put a nix on that. You can build a really nice paper rack out of PVC for about $50 or less. Just do a little thinkin.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 29, 2010)

BIGRNYRS said:


> A step ladder has served me well from time to time. I was useing a portable clothing rack til my smokin hot wife put a nix on that. You can build a really nice paper rack out of PVC for about $50 or less. Just do a little thinkin.



Barstools are already allocated in our budget.  I only get in trouble when I skid an arrow across one of the cross pieces or leave one in the yard overnight..............


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## kcausey (Jul 29, 2010)

Shot paper today from about ten feet....low and behold it was all but a bullet hole.  The tear was about 1/4" low which according to cw's chart is just as desirable as a perfect hole for a righty.  Everything was lateral....I reckon that's best?  The guys I know that know about paper said that's likely as good as it will get....we tried to perfect it but the adjustment it called for made it worse.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 29, 2010)

kcausey said:


> Shot paper today from about ten feet....low and behold it was all but a bullet hole.  The tear was about 1/4" low which according to cw's chart is just as desirable as a perfect hole for a righty.  Everything was lateral....I reckon that's best?  The guys I know that know about paper said that's likely as good as it will get....we tried to perfect it but the adjustment it called for made it worse.



Raise nock, lower rest, add tip weight, increase bow DW, ensure cams are synched properly, none of that worked?


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## kcausey (Jul 29, 2010)

DaddyPaul said:


> Raise nock, lower rest, add tip weight, increase bow DW, Ensure cams are synched properly, none of that worked?



didnt try all that....just the rest adjustments it called for....may have to see about moving the nock.


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## The Arrow Guru (Jul 29, 2010)

Kcasuey, what bow did you shoot through the paper. A lot has to do with the true center of the bow. In order for the nock travel to be right, the arrow has to be shot thru the true center. Solo cam, cam.5, binary, doesnt matter. That means like he said, your rest might be correct but the nock needs to be moved. Could be the arrow spine too. Might get you super tuning after all! LOL


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## golffreak (Jul 29, 2010)

dustin_horne said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this tuning stuff has been took to the extreme? I mean we have paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, walk back tuning, broadhead tuning........ I personally can not shoot a bow that is paper tuned and shooting "bullet holes". The windage on my sight will be maxed out and still not have enough adjustment. So I have to move my rest. At 10' I'm tearing the paper something terrible. But, at 10 yards the arrow had corrected itself, shooting "bullet holes" and looks like a lazer headed down range. I've talked to several other people that have had this same problem. The only way I have found to fix it is put a spacer one both the top and bottom cam, or cam and idler. I don't mess with shimming anymore. I just shoot the bows the way they come and have no problems other than I can't say my bow shoots "bullet holes".



I'm with you. People make it way more complicated than it actually is.


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## DaddyPaul (Jul 29, 2010)

golffreak said:


> I'm with you. People make it way more complicated than it actually is.



I find it to be quite simple.  The bow can't decide whether or not to react to the input I give it.  It is a piece of equipment, when you make adjustments things WILL change, no way around that.  It is just a matter or learning what adjustment will give you the change you desire.

Truly is quite simple................


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 30, 2010)

I don't think paper tuning to make sure the arrow is leaving the bow straight is making it complicated. It took all of ten minutes to get my bow paper tuned.


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## notnksnemor (Jul 30, 2010)

Everyone does it a little different.
IMO where problems start is when someone has a string replaced. Bow is set to spec and adjusted. What they don't realize is after about 100 or so shots, the srting has stretched some and the specs are off. It needs to be twisted back to factory spec.

Here's what I tune to:

Fletched shaft and a bare shaft shot at 30 yards. Field tips only. NEVER shoot a bare shaft with a broadhead.

Oh, and it will shoot any broabhead right with field tips.


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## Grey Man (Aug 2, 2010)

This is one of those things that will help if you want to go the extra mile, but isn't critical. You can plug a deer just fine without a perfectly tuned bow. However, if you put in the extra time, you'll plug it better and from farther away. It's all about how much time you're willing to put in.

Great pics with the barstool and ladder, I'm gonna try those and see how my arrows fly.


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## kcausey (Aug 7, 2010)

Update.....I have both the drenalin and the allegiance shooting bullet holes from ten feet.  Dren took a bit of rest right, the ally took a bit of rest lower....no worries.
I have been shooting for over 20 years, about 16 of those serious shooting, and my nephew, who is 25, and can play you know what with an M16 or Glock, has been shooting a bow for about 6 months, shot perfect bullet holes every time with no adjustments.


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