# Church in the home?



## crackerdave (Mar 29, 2011)

I know of a few who've gone back to the "old way" of having church in their houses,like the early Christians did.

What are your thoughts about this?


----------



## centerpin fan (Mar 29, 2011)

I think it's fine, but you'll obviously be limiting the number of people who can attend.


----------



## rjcruiser (Mar 29, 2011)

Currently I'm part of a church that is doing this.

There are some great advantages with it as far as expenses (or lack thereof).

But like Centerpin has mentioned, you severely limit the people who can and will attend.  We've tried desperately to grow, but I think that with the way our society is, the home-church model isn't conducive to growth.

So what ends up happening is you have a group of like-minded believers, but you don't grow....and the church can become passive.


----------



## huntmore (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorta like David Koresh you mean! No thank you. Strength in numbers works in Church. If you have a few that want to say what God meant and no one to oppose them then you get a mess.


----------



## ArmyTaco (Mar 29, 2011)

Bedside Baptist!


----------



## Randy (Mar 29, 2011)

I say we do it down by the river.


----------



## Ronnie T (Mar 29, 2011)

I like the idea of home church.   Maybe a home church on each block or street, but all these churches are drawn together just as the church in Jerusalem or Corinth was.
I've known several home churches that began but didn't grow and weren't able to sustain themselves.  I don't know why.


----------



## idsman75 (Mar 29, 2011)

Judgement will begin in the house of God (1 Peter 4).  There's plenty of apostasy in the churches today.  There are plenty of people who assemble in church buildings every Sunday morning who are not saved and who will never be saved.  Their salvation is not a work of the hands of church members or church leadership.  It's a work of the Spirit.  Saving faith is created in the hearts of mankind by the Spirit through the hearing of the word.  You are not forsaking the gathering of believers if you worship in homes.  However, a home can go astray.  Therefore, I think it is important such a home-based church is comprised of more than one family for the purpose of spiritual accountability.  We're called to pull our brother or sister aside and point out their sin.  I ask my brothers and sisters in Christ to do the same for me lest I stumble.


----------



## crackerdave (Mar 30, 2011)

Good thoughts!


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Mar 30, 2011)

Randy said:


> I say we do it down by the river.


A river does have some sort of lure to it


----------



## Lowjack (Mar 30, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> I know of a few who've gone back to the "old way" of having church in their houses,like the early Christians did.
> 
> What are your thoughts about this?



I think is excellent, Small Groups are more spiritually alike than huge mega churches where a few know each other, IMO.


----------



## Ronnie T (Mar 30, 2011)

When Paul wrote:    "To the church in Rome"......... what do you suppose he meant and how was his letter taken and disseminated to the Christians in Rome?  They certainly did not meet in a mega building.
Wasn't it most probably many, many home churches that were connected by their common belief and fellowship in Christ?
In the last chapter Paul even mentioned some of the home-based churches.


----------



## Randy (Mar 30, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> A river does have some sort of lure to it



Yea after curch we can go fishing.  I hear God likes fishermen.


----------



## huntmore (Mar 30, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> When Paul wrote:    "To the church in Rome"......... what do you suppose he meant and how was his letter taken and disseminated to the Christians in Rome?  They certainly did not meet in a mega building.
> Wasn't it most probably many, many home churches that were connected by their common belief and fellowship in Christ?
> In the last chapter Paul even mentioned some of the home-based churches.



Church in Rome I think he meant the Body of Christ (the Church), as in all Christians in Rome no matter where they met.


----------



## huntmore (Mar 30, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> I think is excellent, Small Groups are more spiritually alike than huge mega churches where a few know each other, IMO.



You mean like Jim Jones and his bunch? Aren't they all dead now, something about the koolaid.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Mar 30, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> I know of a few who've gone back to the "old way" of having church in their houses,like the early Christians did.
> 
> What are your thoughts about this?




I would think like others, that it can have it's good and bad points. I attend a small group totally separate from any institutional church with other believers on Fridays night's, I can tell you it is a blessing.
I still go to my regular Church on Sundays (PCA).

I think RJ and I both posted fairly in depth in another thread about this same subject a short while back. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.


----------



## StriperAddict (Mar 30, 2011)

I love large numbers when it comes to worship.

I love small cell groups, or whatever else they are called, for knitting hearts together to accomplish dicipleship and accountability.


----------



## crackerdave (Mar 30, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> I think is excellent, Small Groups are more spiritually alike than huge mega churches where a few know each other, IMO.


Kinda _my_ thoughts,too.


Randy said:


> Yea after curch we can go fishing.  I hear God likes fishermen.


We wouldn't hafta look far if anybody needed baptizing,either!

I think small groups are much more encouraging and personal.Very important that what is said about personal problems _stays_ in the group,though. Not to say there's anything inherently wrong with a big church - just my thoughts.


----------



## Jeff Raines (Mar 30, 2011)

We have several preachers at the church I attend now.

Once a year our Pastor calls all the preachers up front.Then members choose a preacher to come to their house for old fashioned cottage meeting to be held on a saturday eve.

It is encouraged to not invite church members but your neighbors that you know that don't attend church.


----------



## crackerdave (Mar 31, 2011)

Jeff Raines said:


> We have several preachers at the church I attend now.
> 
> Once a year our Pastor calls all the preachers up front.Then members choose a preacher to come to their house for old fashioned cottage meeting to be held on a saturday eve.
> 
> It is encouraged to not invite church members but your neighbors that you know that don't attend church.



Now _that's_ a great idea!


----------



## Bitteroot (Apr 1, 2011)

Please don't confuse growing the church with growing the congregation. If we are doing what we are supposed to be doing, it won't matter if the "church" is in your home, or a mega down the street. Too many are hung up with how big they can make it, and some with keeping it small as to not loose the guy in the back row. If you think of it as a family, it is easier to understand how it is to grow. Autonomy is a high priority with my beliefs, but missionary work to start a new congregation shouldn't be limited to an overseas trip to a strange new land.  There may be a strange new land 10 blocks from your front door. Those people need the gosple as much as those in other nations don't they? Helping a small congregation get up and running, may be the stewardship that helps the CHURCH grow instead of our mega ego's.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 1, 2011)

Matthew 18:20 (King James Version)

 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2011)

Bitteroot said:


> Please don't confuse growing the church with growing the congregation. If we are doing what we are supposed to be doing, it won't matter if the "church" is in your home, or a mega down the street. Too many are hung up with how big they can make it, and some with keeping it small as to not loose the guy in the back row. If you think of it as a family, it is easier to understand how it is to grow. Autonomy is a high priority with my beliefs, but missionary work to start a new congregation shouldn't be limited to an overseas trip to a strange new land.  There may be a strange new land 10 blocks from your front door. Those people need the gosple as much as those in other nations don't they? Helping a small congregation get up and running, may be the stewardship that helps the CHURCH grow instead of our mega ego's.



Very true....

I will say though, when it comes down to it, people who are thinking about visiting are usually intimidated by "meeting in someone's home."  It is a smaller more intimate setting that can cause some discomfort, as they'll be greeted by everyone and can't hide on the back row.



On a side note, if anyone would like to come visit our home church to see how ours works, PM me, I'd be most happy to share with you our meeting place and time.  We meet Sunday Mornings from 10-11:30 and there's free coffee


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 1, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> A river does have some sort of lure to it


John baptised Jesus Christ in a river.Jesus began His ministry from there.


Bitteroot said:


> Please don't confuse growing the church with growing the congregation. If we are doing what we are supposed to be doing, it won't matter if the "church" is in your home, or a mega down the street. Too many are hung up with how big they can make it, and some with keeping it small as to not loose the guy in the back row. If you think of it as a family, it is easier to understand how it is to grow. Autonomy is a high priority with my beliefs, but missionary work to start a new congregation shouldn't be limited to an overseas trip to a strange new land.  There may be a strange new land 10 blocks from your front door. Those people need the gosple as much as those in other nations don't they? Helping a small congregation get up and running, may be the stewardship that helps the CHURCH grow instead of our mega ego's.





Miguel Cervantes said:


> Matthew 18:20 (King James Version)
> 
> 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


Thanks for your posts,Greg and Hugh-brothers.I have great respect for both of you.


rjcruiser said:


> Very true....
> 
> I will say though, when it comes down to it, people who are thinking about visiting are usually intimidated by "meeting in someone's home."  It is a smaller more intimate setting that can cause some discomfort, as they'll be greeted by everyone and can't hide on the back row.
> 
> ...



Good point,brother. Then,on the other side of the coin,you have folks who would be skeered to walk into a _large_ crowd of folks they don't know - especially if there were snakes being handled or folks speaking in tongues! Not trying to flog _those_ dead horses - just referring to what Paul said about "tongues" in the Bible.


----------



## THREEJAYS (Apr 2, 2011)

I think big or small our job is the same.If we plant and water as we are called to do that God will give an increase as he said.


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 2, 2011)

THREEJAYS said:


> I think big or small our job is the same.If we plant and water as we are called to do that God will give an increase as he said.



True.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 2, 2011)

THREEJAYS said:


> I think big or small our job is the same.If we plant and water as we are called to do that God will give an increase as he said.



The size, time and place is not important as long as we worship God and follow his commands and his example. 

The important thing is that we worship, true worship, exorting one another as we are told.

The Church is not made from morter and stone. The Church is a Godly building built on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 2, 2011)

Amen,Deacon!


----------



## georgia_home (Apr 2, 2011)

Agree and to further this thought, how many brick and mortar churches, LED BY MEN have been corrupted? In the name of god? The brand of faith is irrelevant.

Do you really need a church (building)?

You can find good things there, friends, like minded people, and that is great too. These things should not be overlooked. But if your real purpose is god... 

The building is extra.



thedeacon said:


> The size, time and place is not important as long as we worship God and follow his commands and his example.
> 
> The important thing is that we worship, true worship, exorting one another as we are told.
> 
> The Church is not made from morter and stone. The Church is a Godly building built on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ.


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 2, 2011)

Where two or three are gathered together in My name............


----------



## _BuckMaster_ (Apr 3, 2011)

if your willing to accept jesus christ in your heart does it really matter where you serve him?


----------



## trckdrvr (Apr 3, 2011)

The Amish dont have ANY churches..meet only in each others homes and only every other Sunday..

They seem very Devout.






Just say'n...Whatever works.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 3, 2011)

Great posts - thanks!


----------



## GOoutdoors (Apr 3, 2011)

I've been involved with small groups in homes for years.  To me it's a great way to truly "make" disciples, because you get the chance to build a genuine relationship.  Whether you look to the Book of Acts or to Jesus' example, small group discipleship seems to be God's model.

I don't think that Pastors should bear the full burden of ministering to everyone.  Groups give lay ministers better opportunities to serve and meet the needs.  But these group leaders need to be people controlled by God's Spirit and abiding by His Word.


----------



## CAL (Apr 3, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> I know of a few who've gone back to the "old way" of having church in their houses,like the early Christians did.
> 
> What are your thoughts about this?



I have been a part of home meetings.We met in my son's great room,our back porch,and even at the tractor shed at our shop.Those that came were in blue jeans,tennis shoes,and even hunting cloths.Everyone brought their Bibles and the spirit was with us,one could feel His presence.The meetings were awesome.What more can I say?


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 3, 2011)

CAL said:


> I have been a part of home meetings.We met in my son's great room,our back porch,and even at the tractor shed at our shop.Those that came were in blue jeans,tennis shoes,and even hunting cloths.Everyone brought their Bibles and the spirit was with us,one could feel His presence.The meetings were awesome.What more can I say?



The honest truth, I wish I had been there.
Sounds great.


----------



## Israel (Apr 4, 2011)

Jesus will work among the five thousand on the day of Pentecost or one eunuch in a chariot. Big or small, home or stadium...all that matters is Jesus, and wherever he is honored he will manifest himself.
But we can never point to a "venue" and say...this is how and where Jesus will show up. He proved before Herod he is not a trained performer.


----------



## idsman75 (Apr 5, 2011)

Growing up, my family, a few other families, and a local pastor met in our home when the church we attended really went astray.  There was a lot of shake-up in the CRC which caused a split and the beginning of the URC as a result.  It was tough times and the home meetings were a blessing.  Mom would go over to the piano, strike a note so we would all start off on key, and we would sing without instruments.  The pastor would lead worship and his sermon would always end in extensive discussion.  Our meetings always went longer than normal organized church-building services.  They were driven by the Spirit and not by a clock.

Just because a building is big and draws a whole lot of people doesn't mean any more people are going to be regenerated than in home-based meetings.  There are a lot of "unsaved" in the churches and probably more so in the big churches.  Remember, the path is narrow and few are those who walk it.  I did not have assurance of my salvation until just a few years ago just as I was attending a small Korean church in the middle-of-nowhere Missouri.  Talk about small.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 7, 2011)

Church at home....yes. Church anywhere?....just give me an opening and I'm ready to roll.

I like gathering at the church building, too. Party all the time with the Holy Ghost....any time, any place.

Please God send someone to me, wherever I am, to witness to and praise my God.


----------



## Banjo (Apr 8, 2011)

Hello Everybody....it has been a while.  I hope all is well with you and your families.  I have a question about the church in the home.  Are there ordained ministers preaching and administering the sacraments, or do the participants take turns doing these things?


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 8, 2011)

Banjo!  What's up girl?

I just saw your name and thought I'd pop in.  There are too many turkeys to be killed right now.  Haven't been in here much.  Hope you're doing well.

ok, y'all back to your discussion (I think I know where Banjo is going....)

Let me know when your dad want to rid himself of those pesky turkeys.  They really are a problem and I'd be glad to help him out.


So that I'm not totally off topic....who ordains ministers?  What are the biblical qualifications of an ordained minister or pastor or preacher?  Ordained being the operative word in my questions.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 8, 2011)

Banjo said:


> Hello Everybody....it has been a while.  I hope all is well with you and your families.  I have a question about the church in the home.  Are there ordained ministers preaching and administering the sacraments, or do the participants take turns doing these things?





Huntinfool said:


> Banjo!  What's up girl?
> 
> I just saw your name and thought I'd pop in.  There are too many turkeys to be killed right now.  Haven't been in here much.  Hope you're doing well.
> 
> ...





Wow...it's like old times in here again 

As far as the original question...we have 5 Biblically qualified elders in our church of 35 people.  (Kinda think that is amazing since I've been a part of much larger churches that didn't have that level of leadership).  4 of the 5 do the teaching and rotate 2 weeks on 6 weeks off.

Are they ordained?  Well, I know that at least one of them was a former pastor...so, he had to have been ordained at one time.  Does an ordination last a lifetime? or do you have to be ordained again when you move churches?


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 8, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Wow...it's like old times in here again
> 
> As far as the original question...we have 5 Biblically qualified elders in our church of 35 people.  (Kinda think that is amazing since I've been a part of much larger churches that didn't have that level of leadership).  4 of the 5 do the teaching and rotate 2 weeks on 6 weeks off.
> 
> Are they ordained?  Well, I know that at least one of them was a former pastor...so, he had to have been ordained at one time.  Does an ordination last a lifetime? or do you have to be ordained again when you move churches?



I'm impressed.  Five elders out of 35 people.

Ordained!  

The word "ordained" always confuses me.
The word "proclaimed" never confuses me.


----------



## Banjo (Apr 8, 2011)

Hey Friends....

Huntin.....my dad won't let anybody kill any of his turkeys....they are kind of like his pets.  If he ever changes his mind, I will get my husband to take you down there, but I wouldn't hold my breath.  My dad may be even harder headed than me .  

Rj....only thing to make it more like old times would be to start a few threads about:  free will vs. sovereign grace, homeschool vs. government school, Dispensationalism, and my personal favorite....the Christian beauty queen with the "store bought blessings" (someone else's words, not mine). Those were the days.

My understanding is that ordination is for a life time, unless the individual demits the ministry or is defrocked.  Ordination is the setting apart of a person for a church office and is to be continued by the church....Titus 1:5.  Without ordained elders there can be no church.  (Are we having fun yet  )  The apostles were sent out to start churches, people never gathered and then declared themselves a church.  The apostles then ordained leadership in the churches that they had started.  

Have we ever discussed church polity?  Dare we?  I would think it relevant as people continue to become disgruntled with the modern, evangelical church and in their quest for something deeper, opt for church in their homes....

I haven't had time to read all the recent threads in this forum.....Do you all still discuss these types of differences, or will this get me into trouble?   

"I don't want no trouble."


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 8, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm impressed.  Five elders out of 35 people.
> 
> Ordained!
> 
> ...





Banjo said:


> Hey Friends....
> 
> Rj....only thing to make it more like old times would be to start a few threads about:  free will vs. sovereign grace, homeschool vs. private Christian school, Dispensationalism, and my personal favorite....the Christian beauty queen with the "store bought blessings" (someone else's words, not mine). Those were the days.
> 
> ...



Fixed it for you above 

No...you can debate in here...just keep it civil.  Most of the trouble makers have been banded.  Some 3 or 4 times.  A few have changed usernames....some of us...well...I guess we don't have a life 


As far as your ordination...is that something that is a set procedure?  or is it just something that the church leadership does?  I've seen it both ways.  The church I grew up with...well...let's just say you had to know your stuff if you wanted to be ordained (very difficult process along with being qualified).  Other churches I've been too...well...it is more of a show at the end of a Sunday morning service that makes someone a "deacon" based on popularity and a few other things.

I can honestly say, the 5 in my church are qualified based on the requirements in I Tim.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Apr 8, 2011)

Been boring in here lately, fire one of those topics up in a thread Banjo.


----------



## reformedpastor (Apr 8, 2011)

Howdy brothers and sisters- 

The church was around long before they had to meet in homes. Meeting in homes was historically a necessity so to make it a pattern of faithfulness would be to go beyond the teaching of scripture concerning the church. 

The glory of the New Testament is that the worship of the true God would no longer be confined to Jerusalem where God would meet with them, the place of His choosing. But is now present with His people where ever they may meet. To the end of the age! 
Matt 28:20 

Now like old times?


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 8, 2011)

Been "out of the loop" fer a while.
Sure is good to see you back,Banjo! I was beginning to think all our sisters had been skeered off! Annie [mtnwoman] posts occasionally,and Nicole [Snowhunter] ,but very few ladies around anymore.

I'm allowed to be  in my own thread.

Back to said topic: Do y'all think it is a biblical requirement for the leader of a church in the home to be ordained?


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 8, 2011)

First comes the church, then came the ordination.

There are no longer apostles or people like Timothy to come into our churches to appoint elders, and deacons, and a preacher, or minister, or evangelist.
So the church, as a whole, takes on the task of appointing church leaders based on the strict guidelines found in the Gospel.  Those selections are based on (1) who's interested and feels called by God to fill one of those, and (2) who meets biblical qualifications, and (3) all the other non-biblical reason we might have for voting or not voting for a particular person being able to do the Lord's work as they feel called.


----------



## Banjo (Apr 9, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Been "out of the loop" fer a while.
> Sure is good to see you back,Banjo! I was beginning to think all our sisters had been skeered off! Annie [mtnwoman] posts occasionally,and Nicole [Snowhunter] ,but very few ladies around anymore.
> 
> I'm allowed to be  in my own thread.
> ...



Hey Crackerdave.....Good to see you.  I was never "skeered" just busy.    I have always enjoyed my time spent here.  

To answer your question, I would say, most definitely.  Self proclaimed pastors who have not been examined and ordained have no business in leadership.  

Churches should start churches, not disgruntled individuals.


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 9, 2011)

Banjo, I to am glad to see you back.
Your spiritual insight always causes a person to think.

And, like other, I miss many of the ladies who have blessed us with their comments in the past.  I even miss Dixie!

Now could you please get us some really good topics to study and discuss.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 9, 2011)

Welcome back Banjo, keep on keeping on.


----------



## Banjo (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks RonnieT and thedeacon.....Glad to be back.  I hope all is well with you both and your families.  Let me think about some topics.....there is no way we could have covered everything....and all the new people here would certainly contribute new things to items we have already discussed.  

To stay on topic, do we ever have an example in the Scriptures where an individual goes out on his own and starts a church?


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 9, 2011)

Banjo said:


> Thanks RonnieT and thedeacon.....Glad to be back.  I hope all is well with you both and your families.  Let me think about some topics.....there is no way we could have covered everything....and all the new people here would certainly contribute new things to items we have already discussed.
> 
> To stay on topic, do we ever have an example in the Scriptures where an individual goes out on his own and starts a church?



Let's be honest.  If it was more than three months ago, most of us don't remember it anyway.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 9, 2011)




----------



## Jeffriesw (Apr 9, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> Let's be honest.  If it was more than three months ago, most of us don't remember it anyway.



I think I qualify for that remark Ronnie T


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 9, 2011)

I can't remember my grankids names


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 10, 2011)

Glad I'm not alone!


----------



## Jeffriesw (Apr 10, 2011)

What a bunch of ol" geezers we are.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 11, 2011)

Banjo said:


> Churches should start churches, not disgruntled individuals.



Now THAT I agree with wholeheartedly....

Problem is who says who is digruntled.  The church I attend was started by a pastor and a few like-minded individuals who had been at the same church for 25 years.  I wouldn't say they were disgruntled....just felt that God was calling them to something that the current church was not willing to do.  The church was stagnant.  Bottom line.

So yes, I suppose they were disgruntled with the current situation.  But, no, there was no anger in the midst of it.

A church didn't start our church.  What church started the Catholic Church?  Methodist?  Baptist?  Were they not all (with the possible exception of Catholic) started by disgruntled Christians who felt God calling them to something bigger than the current?


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 11, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> What church started the Catholic Church?  Methodist?  Baptist?  Were they not all (with the possible exception of Catholic) started by disgruntled Christians who felt God calling them to something bigger than the current?



We all know that the Catholic Church was the church started by Jesus Christ talking to Peter

But...in the beginning of the NT Church, they were started in cities by the apostles.  They only had one church (that we know of) in each location.  Usually, close to the synagogues as that is where Peter and Paul went to first when they entered the city.

I guess that is part of the difficulties with the church today...especially in the "Bible Belt."  Most go to church....every town has a church.  But those church's don't all hold to the same doctrine or even scripture.  So...is someone who goes and starts a church over a doctrinal issue automatically disgruntled?

I have to say, if it isn't a major doctrinal issue, I think one has to be careful with splitting off and starting another church.  I don't think it is biblical to divide and start another over the color of the choir robes.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 11, 2011)

I think my word would be "discouraged" for those who aren't getting "fed" straight-up Bible preaching and teaching. Also - the sin that is allowed in many churches today,such as immodestly dressed young girls and women,popularity contests,instead of biblically correct choosing of deacons,etc.....


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 11, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> we all know that the catholic church was the church started by jesus christ talking to peter:d
> 
> but...in the beginning of the nt church, they were started in cities by the apostles.  They only had one church (that we know of) in each location.  Usually, close to the synagogues as that is where peter and paul went to first when they entered the city.
> 
> ...



amen!!!!!


----------



## huntmore (Apr 11, 2011)

I have been to alot of places and see a whole bunch of First Baptist Churches. Just how many firsts can you have. 

Very good rj yes the Catholic Church is the Church started by the Apostiles now we are getting somewhere.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 12, 2011)

huntmore said:


> I have been to alot of places and see a whole bunch of First Baptist Churches. Just how many firsts can you have.
> 
> Very good rj yes the Catholic Church is the Church started by the Apostiles now we are getting somewhere.



Where?


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2011)

huntmore said:


> Very good rj yes the Catholic Church is the Church started by the Apostiles now we are getting somewhere.



No...you've got it wrong.  It was the catholic church that was started by the apostles.


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 12, 2011)

One of these days Christ is going to chime in on which church was established and who established it.

I'll be willing to bet my eternity that it won't be the roman catholic church.  It will be His church, and that is not the roman catholic church.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 12, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> One of these days Christ is going to chime in on which church was established and who established it.
> 
> I'll be willing to bet my eternity that it won't be the roman catholic church.  It will be His church, and that is not the roman catholic church.




"Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of he'll will not prevail over it." 

Christ words not mine, his church only and the rock that the church is built on is not Peter it is the statement that he made.

"You are the Christ the son of the living God"


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 12, 2011)

_Tell it,_ deacon!

I very much doubt that the early Christian churches had a Pope in their midst.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 12, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> No...you've got it wrong.  It was the catholic church that was started by the apostles.



No no it the Apostiles that started the Catholic Church. Nope it was Jesus who stated it really, the Apostiles were the first leaders of it.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 12, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Where?



EVERYWHERE!! I been to lots of states, countries and they all have the First Baptist Church.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 12, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> "Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of he'll will not prevail over it."
> 
> Christ words not mine, his church only and the rock that the church is built on is not Peter it is the statement that he made.
> 
> "You are the Christ the son of the living God"



Kind of sad you don't use the rest of the scripture in your verse. Even in the KJV version it Jesus says "thou aren't Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church" and then after your verse "I will give unto thee (Peter) the keys to the kingdom which ever sins you (Peter again) hold bound on earth will be bound in heaven and whichever sins you (Peter yet Again) hold loosed will be loose in heaven.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 12, 2011)

huntmore said:


> No no it the Apostiles that started the Catholic Church. Nope it was Jesus who stated it really, the Apostiles were the first leaders of it.





huntmore said:


> Kind of sad you don't use the rest of the scripture in your verse. Even in the KJV version it Jesus says "thou aren't Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church" and then after your verse "I will give unto thee (Peter) the keys to the kingdom which ever sins you (Peter again) hold bound on earth will be bound in heaven and whichever sins you (Peter yet Again) hold loosed will be loose in heaven.





Typical Catholic responses....and it has been discussed many times before in this forum.

In memory of an old Catholic member that use to frequent this forum often (Dominic), I'll just leave it at that.


----------



## formula1 (Apr 12, 2011)

*Re:*

Peter renamed rock for he was first to proclaim the revelation of Jesus as the Christ.

Matthew 16
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him,  "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of he!!---- shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." 

Rock = Jesus (the revelation of the Christ)
you = church = those who believe the revelation of Jesus.

There is a well-defined consensus of scripture defining the Rock and making it pretty clear. Here are some of them:

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock, his work is perfect,for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity,just and upright is he.

2 Samuel 22:32
"For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer,my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge,my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 89:26
He shall cry to me, 'You are my Father,my God, and the Rock of my salvation.'

Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever,for the LORD GOD is an everlasting rock.

Matthew 7:24
24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

1 Corinthians 10:4
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

God bless!


----------



## huntmore (Apr 12, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Peter renamed rock for he was first to proclaim the revelation of Jesus as the Christ.
> 
> Matthew 16
> 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him,  "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of he!!---- shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
> ...



Yep that is what I said!!


----------



## jason4445 (Apr 13, 2011)

It has always numbed me to experience the hatred Fundamentalist Christians have for the Catholic Church and not just what I see in here but have experienced personally.  Deny it?  Try, but it is blatant hatred pure and simple.  And the funny thing is no matter what kind of Fundamentalist "Bible Preaching Church" you belong to in home or church building; 95% of the doctrines, dogmas and ceremonies you believe in and perform is right out of the Catholic Catechism.

It keep reminding me of what Gandhi once said "You Christians are so unlike your Christ."


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> It has always numbed me to experience the hatred Fundamentalist Christians have for the Catholic Church and not just what I see in here but have experienced personally.  Deny it?  Try, but it is blatant hatred pure and simple.  And the funny thing is no matter what kind of Fundamentalist "Bible Preaching Church" you belong to in home or church building; 95% of the doctrines, dogmas and ceremonies you believe in and perform is right out of the Catholic Catechism.
> 
> It keep reminding me of what Gandhi once said "You Christians are so unlike your Christ."





Garbage.  Complete garbage.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 13, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> It has always numbed me to experience the hatred Fundamentalist Christians have for the Catholic Church and not just what I see in here but have experienced personally.  Deny it?  Try, but it is blatant hatred pure and simple.  And the funny thing is no matter what kind of Fundamentalist "Bible Preaching Church" you belong to in home or church building; 95% of the doctrines, dogmas and ceremonies you believe in and perform is right out of the Catholic Catechism.
> 
> It keep reminding me of what Gandhi once said "You Christians are so unlike your Christ."







Garbage. Complete garbage. 
__________________
Dawg2 quote: Go read the rules again. Slowly. 




You know this is the second time in 3 days someone has spewed this kind of mess. I was acused of being a bigot, hating the jews and I think the KKK was even mentioned because I didn't agree with someone.

Hey people you are on a F-O-R-U-M look it up, see what it means, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

It seems to me the people that say they have all the answers are the ones that act the least Christlike.


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 13, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> It has always numbed me to experience the hatred Fundamentalist Christians have for the Catholic Church and not just what I see in here but have experienced personally.  Deny it?  Try, but it is blatant hatred pure and simple.  And the funny thing is no matter what kind of Fundamentalist "Bible Preaching Church" you belong to in home or church building; 95% of the doctrines, dogmas and ceremonies you believe in and perform is right out of the Catholic Catechism.
> 
> It keep reminding me of what Gandhi once said "You Christians are so unlike your Christ."



I hope that all Christians feel as I do.......... whether you're a catholic or not, if you are a disciple of Christ, you are my brother.
But honestly, nothing of me came from the catholic church.  ...didn't come from denominationalism.
It came from the Good news of Jesus Christ.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 13, 2011)

Who first came up with the idea of "denominations?" Seems to me,that's one of the major causes of disunity among disciples of Christ - maybe it was satan who came up with the idea? You know - the ol' "divide and conquer" trick.


----------



## formula1 (Apr 13, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I hope that all Christians feel as I do.......... whether you're a catholic or not, if you are a disciple of Christ, you are my brother.
> But honestly, nothing of me came from the catholic church.  ...didn't come from denominationalism.
> It came from the Good news of Jesus Christ.



And therein is the truth in the entire matter.  The Good News of Jesus Christ trumps all else. Thanks for the reminder Ronnie!

If denominationalism is ruling our walk, we become just like the Pharisee in Jesus day ( i.e. simply just a Brood of Vipers)!  God forbid that we should do such a thing and thereby limit the free flowing of His grace!


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

You are right Jason. The very text they read from the Bible wasn't written by Protestants, there where none. The only people who could write in those days where tax collectors, political scribes and Church (catholic) people of one kind or another. 
There was no such thing as demonations untill the so called reformation just us Catholics.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> There was no such thing as demonations untill the so called reformation just us Catholics.





Not quite true....but keep trying to re-write history if you like.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> Garbage. Complete garbage.
> __________________
> Dawg2 quote: Go read the rules again. Slowly.
> 
> ...



I don't see anyone talking about heat in the kitchen but you. I can take all kinds of heat been taken it from protestants of one form or another for a long time.

Was it a Catholic that called you a bigot etc? 

Your last statement is a dosy, almost all of the protestants on here and other places I have been are the ones who, as you say "they have all the answers"and Catholics haven't got a clue even though we were around over a thousand years before the first protestant.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Not quite true....but keep trying to re-write history if you like.



Afternoon rj. There is no Baptist, methodist, non denomanational Chruch that can trace it's roots back further than a few hundred years. NONE!


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I hope that all Christians feel as I do.......... whether you're a catholic or not, if you are a disciple of Christ, you are my brother.
> But honestly, nothing of me came from the catholic church.  ...didn't come from denominationalism.
> It came from the Good news of Jesus Christ.



Yep came from the good news of Christ, who formed a group of guys  and called them Apostiles. Those guys went out and preached the good news and grew the Church we call it Apostolic succesion.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> Afternoon rj. There is no Baptist, methodist, non denomanational Chruch that can trace it's roots back further than a few hundred years. NONE!



Really?  My faith and my church is rooted in the Words of Jesus Christ.  Right about 2000 years ago.

Seems a bit further back than 1517


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> I don't see anyone talking about heat in the kitchen but you. I can take all kinds of heat been taken it from protestants of one form or another for a long time.
> 
> Was it a Catholic that called you a bigot etc?
> 
> Your last statement is a dosy, almost all of the protestants on here and other places I have been are the ones who, as you say "they have all the answers"and Catholics haven't got a clue even though we were around over a thousand years before the first protestant.



Just so you know: The "Catholics versus Everybody Else" is a thoroughly dead and beaten horse on this forum.If you don't believe me,do a search on "Catholics" here. Then,if you find something that hasn't already been said a hundred times,start you up a thread of your very own and have at it.I personally am sick of the topic.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> I don't see anyone talking about heat in the kitchen but you. I can take all kinds of heat been taken it from protestants of one form or another for a long time.
> 
> Was it a Catholic that called you a bigot etc?
> 
> Your last statement is a dosy, almost all of the protestants on here and other places I have been are the ones who, as you say "they have all the answers"and Catholics haven't got a clue even though we were around over a thousand years before the first protestant.



You are right and I apoligize.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 13, 2011)

I am a memer of the Church that was established on the day of pentacost in ad 33. 

I truly hope that everyone here is a member of that church also.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 13, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> I am a memer of the Church that was established on the day of pentacost in ad 33.
> 
> I truly hope that everyone here is a member of that church also.



Whether they're in a home or in a "mega-church" - if they believe in their heart that Jesus,the Son of God, died on the cross for their sins and was resurrected by the Father............ they are!


----------



## Ronnie T (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> You are right Jason. The very text they read from the Bible wasn't written by Protestants, there where none. The only people who could write in those days where tax collectors, political scribes and Church (catholic) people of one kind or another.
> There was no such thing as demonations untill the so called reformation just us Catholics.



And you can find all that in Your church history.
But you won't find it in Christ's church history.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 13, 2011)

huntmore said:


> You are right Jason. The very text they read from the Bible wasn't written by Protestants, there where none. The only people who could write in those days where tax collectors, political scribes and Church (catholic) people of one kind or another.
> There was no such thing as demonations untill the so called reformation just us Catholics.



 Another chest-beatin' Catholic fire-ant.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Another chest-beatin' Catholic fire-ant.



So you have started calling people names now because you have no ammunition or are you just shot up?


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> And you can find all that in Your church history.
> But you won't find it in Christ's church history.



Sorry Ronnie, but Christ left the Apostiles in charge to gather more people to the flock, the Church while he is gone. Anyone who reads the Bible can see that. It has been suggested here by someone that we started in 1517 or something. We have socks older than that. Our roots go all the way back to the Apostiles.
A simple question, which Baptist and or other protestant scholars wrote the Bible?


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> I am a memer of the Church that was established on the day of pentacost in ad 33.
> 
> I truly hope that everyone here is a member of that church also.



No I don't think many are, at least they don't seem to be Catholic.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 13, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Just so you know: The "Catholics versus Everybody Else" is a thoroughly dead and beaten horse on this forum.If you don't believe me,do a search on "Catholics" here. Then,if you find something that hasn't already been said a hundred times,start you up a thread of your very own and have at it.I personally am sick of the topic.



OH yes we can tell you are totally sick of the topic. So why is it you keep posting again?
Wasn't thinking, I guess I did high jack the thread a little. Should have told me sooner. I just put my two cents and and then people jump on me and I jump back.


----------



## formula1 (Apr 14, 2011)

*Re:*

I see too much pride here and not enough Truth. So here is Truth:

Proverbs 11:2
When pride comes, then comes disgrace,but with the humble is wisdom.

Isaiah 2:17
And the haughtiness of man shall be humbled,and the lofty pride of men shall be brought low,and the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

Romans 11
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Listen and hear with Spirit ears the admonition of the Lord.


----------



## HawgJawl (Apr 14, 2011)

huntmore said:


> A simple question, which Baptist and or other protestant scholars wrote the Bible?



That's definitely a topic that is near and dear to my heart.
Who do you say wrote the Bible?


----------



## Banjo (Apr 14, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> I am a memer of the Church that was established on the day of pentacost in ad 33.
> 
> I truly hope that everyone here is a member of that church also.



Actually, the church dates back even further....remember Adam and Eve??


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 14, 2011)

Banjo said:


> Actually, the church dates back even further....remember Adam and Eve??



Let's not bring dispensationalism into this thread...jeesh...we're already way off topic.


----------



## formula1 (Apr 14, 2011)

*Re:*



Banjo said:


> Actually, the church dates back even further....remember Adam and Eve??



Oh so true and thanks for the reminder. I thank my Lord by His grace that He chose to graft us into Himself through the work of Christ. What an absolutely astounding gift!


----------



## huntmore (Apr 14, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Let's not bring dispensationalism into this thread...jeesh...we're already way off topic.



Oh and do not forget hawg. He wants to talk about who wrote the Bible. 
Then you have others who say the Church was started by Adam and Eve.


----------



## HawgJawl (Apr 14, 2011)

huntmore said:


> A simple question, which Baptist and or other protestant scholars wrote the Bible?



You asked the above question, indicating that someone other than a "Baptist and or other protestant scholar wrote the Bible".

So, simple question, who do you believe wrote the Bible?


----------



## huntmore (Apr 14, 2011)

Hawg
If I had the time to answer your question I would still not have the typing ability. It would take me days to answer. 
Here is what really matters. It is the word of God and it doesn't matter, at all, who wrote down the words.


----------



## farmasis (Apr 15, 2011)

Banjo said:


> Actually, the church dates back even further....remember Adam and Eve??


 
Someone should have told Jesus.

*<SUP>16</SUP>* Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 
<SUP id=en-NKJV-23686 class=versenum>*17*</SUP> Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed _this_ to you, but My Father who is in heaven. <SUP id=en-NKJV-23687 class=versenum>*18*</SUP> And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (Matt 16)

Yes, before Christ you will find gatherings, yes there was spiritualism, yes there was a chosen people, yes there were saints. 

The church started with Adam, but not the first one.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 15, 2011)

If you read in acts the second chapter, on the day of Pentacost the church started. Chapter 2 and 47 says that the people were added to the church as they were being saved.

We have seen on here the arguments on who is a member of the right Church and who is not, the fact of the matter is, we don't choose Churches. There is only one Church, the one we read about in acts. 

When we become a Christian we are automatically added to the Church by God.

Man can not add you to the Church, only God can.

The Church is a spiritual thing, not made of stone. The Church is the bride of Christ.

Its to bad that when you ride down the road you see two or three churches on the same block. Throughout the bible God has tried to teach us the greatness of unity but we just don't get it. Our own pride has kept us from the closeness of God. People say I can be a Christian without a church, my bible doesn't read that way.

He has given us every chance in the world to live right for him and he finally had to send his son for a sacrifice to ease our pain of sin. 

Yes it is Christ Church and only his, not Moses, David, Adam or eve, Christ bought it, paid in full, only his.

If you are a Christian you are a member of that Church, you have no choice.

And that is not my opinion that is what the bible says.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 15, 2011)

huntmore said:


> OH yes we can tell you are totally sick of the topic. So why is it you keep posting again?
> Wasn't thinking, I guess I did high jack the thread a little. Should have told me sooner. I just put my two cents and and then people jump on me and I jump back.



Because it's _my_ thread.

 If you want to argue and bully your way around this forum,I'd suggest you start your own threads - maybe titled something along the lines of "If you're not Catholic,you're doomed" or "I know everything - don't even _think_ of arguing with me."


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 15, 2011)

huntmore said:


> So you have started calling people names now because you have no ammunition or are you just shot up?



Not "people"  - just Catholic fire-ants. It was an inside joke that obviously went right over your head.
You might want to do a little searching in the many pages of this forum.You _might_ get it.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Apr 15, 2011)

Huntmore, cracker is referring to the fact that we ( us protestants collectively in the forum) call Catholics fire ants as a term of affection in a joking way, not derision.
Kick the ant bed and the ant's come runnin...


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 15, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> If you want to argue and bully your way around this forum,I'd suggest you start your own threads - maybe titled something along the lines of "If you're not Catholic,you're doomed" or "I know everything - don't even _think_ of arguing with me."



I think LJ might have issues with that second thread

y'all have a great weekend.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 15, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Not "people"  - just Catholic fire-ants. It was an inside joke that obviously went right over your head.
> You might want to do a little searching in the many pages of this forum.You _might_ get it.



Inside jokes have the tendancy of going over a persons head who isn't on the inside. That is the nature of an an inside joke. You do have a problem with the simplist things don't you. 
I waste enough time on the threads I choose to be on now. I sure don't need to look up every thread from the time the gon has started till now. Just so I can be on your inside, not to sure your inside is a good place to be.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 15, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> Because it's _my_ thread.
> 
> If you want to argue and bully your way around this forum,I'd suggest you start your own threads - maybe titled something along the lines of "If you're not Catholic,you're doomed" or "I know everything - don't even _think_ of arguing with me."



When I tire of something that is my own I can quit it, try it you may like it. 

Thats so funny!! So I think everyone is doomed who isn't Catholic and I know everything because I have a different view than you. So if I say the same thing about you what then?
By the way I have started threads and never cryed when someone had a different opinion than mine. Go ahead and take your ball with you I don't want to play anymore anyway.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 15, 2011)

Swamp Runner said:


> Huntmore, cracker is referring to the fact that we ( us protestants collectively in the forum) call Catholics fire ants as a term of affection in a joking way, not derision.
> Kick the ant bed and the ant's come runnin...



Now I know. I need a fireant icon for future use know where I can get one.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 18, 2011)

So - do you have _anything_ to say about the topic of this thread?


----------



## huntmore (Apr 18, 2011)

Ahh look at post #4.


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 19, 2011)

Ahh..never mind.


----------



## thedeacon (Apr 19, 2011)

Discussing something with some people is like wrestling in the mud with a hog.

There is no way you can truly win, you are going to get muddy and the hog loves it.


----------



## gtparts (Apr 19, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> I know of a few who've gone back to the "old way" of having church in their houses,like the early Christians did.
> 
> What are your thoughts about this?


  Dave, I have managed to stay out of this thread. I know it is not what you intended it to be, but I do see a great need for the church universal to be present in every home, as Christ is desperately needed in every home and every heart. This forum could use a little more Christ, also.

To all those trying to carve out territory or preserve that which you think is yours to hold:

You bring shame to the name of Jesus.

To those who attack others for the petty differences they observe in the doctrines that are the pitiful fabrication of men and to those that cling to such fabrication:

You bring shame to the name of Jesus.

To those who spread contention among your brothers and sisters:

You bring shame to the name of Jesus.

To those who find fault in the servant of another, even of our Lord and Savior:

You have no authority to vilify that servant, you show no humility, no love, none of the traits of the one whose name you claim. You bring shame to the name of Jesus.

Consider the damage that you have done here, how you have brought reproach upon His name, and repent.

You need to "drop those stones", hit your knees, and pray for forgiveness.  

If this hits you where you live, so be it. If it feels like you have had a trip to the woodshed, then perhaps you earned it. I don't believe I would have taken the time for this, except I know that God has given me permission.

Am I hot about what I have witnessed here? No. I am not. I was, though.

Now, I am just disappointed. 

Imagine what God thinks.


----------



## huntmore (Apr 19, 2011)

thedeacon said:


> Discussing something with some people is like wrestling in the mud with a hog.
> 
> There is no way you can truly win, you are going to get muddy and the hog loves it.



I know the feeling (muddy).


----------



## crackerdave (Apr 20, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Dave, I have managed to stay out of this thread. I know it is not what you intended it to be, but I do see a great need for the church universal to be present in every home, as Christ is desperately needed in every home and every heart. This forum could use a little more Christ, also.
> 
> To all those trying to carve out territory or preserve that which you think is yours to hold:
> 
> ...



Thank you,brother. I have preached that same sermon here a few times,too - and I have also been guilty as charged.
We are nothing but human,and that's all we'll _ever_ be,until God takes us home.That's one big reason why I don't participate here as much as I used to - there are too many "king-of-the-hill" types, and so little Christ-like love and humility. The same in many churches.


----------

