# Would you shoot pen raised ducks?



## GSUJake (Dec 9, 2008)

If the season was slow and you got a pretty good deal to go shoot some pen raised ducks that fly good would you? You can shoot just as many as you want.


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## GAGE (Dec 9, 2008)

For working a dog, all day long.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

No.


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## mdhall (Dec 9, 2008)

practice makes perfect


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## muddy_feet (Dec 9, 2008)

Yes, while still in the pen.  I would use a skeet tube and maybe get within 15 yards and maybe I'll only need 1 shell.


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## lablover0929 (Dec 9, 2008)

No.  If you need to practice, then shoot clays.  If you need to run your dog, throw bumpers or save a few spoonies from the season, freeze them and use them to train.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

Shooting Tamies is merely perpetuating the cycle. 

Soon, I hope the USFWS will enact a ban on the practice. 

The Mottled Duck and the American Black duck are being hybridized out of existence.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

Furthermore, 

The admission of shooting(or  even wanting to shoot Tamies) brands one as a Barnie.

Trap some Feral pigeons if you want to shoot birds for your dog to practice with.


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## cpowel10 (Dec 9, 2008)

Serious question here, I've only duck hunted a few times and only killed a handful of ducks.....

How the heck do you shoot pen raised birds?!  Do they put them in the pond, you scare them up, and shoot them down?  (same principle as quail hunting basically?)

If so, then that is the opposite of the duck hunting I've experienced.  I thought the point was to shoot the wild birds coming IN to land in the pond.


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## hevishot (Dec 9, 2008)

only as an extermination measure should the pesky creatures show up in me duck hole....no way, otherwise.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

hevishot said:


> only as an extermination measure should the pesky creatures show up in me duck hole....no way, otherwise.



That opens up the Pandora's box...

Exterminate the flying vermin. I have just about quit hunting SC for Ducks- with the exception of the few places I hunt that  ( I hope) the Tamies haven't invaded. It's sickening.

Nothing like shooting a strangely colored Mallard and seeing the band from SCWA or Joe Bob's Breadfed Plantation.... kinda sad.

They do migrate and they do diminish the pure, wild Mallard bloodlines- and they will inbreed with any Wild hen they can catch. Disgusting practice the MRP..


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## cut'em (Dec 9, 2008)

For all the guys that said no. How many of you have shot pen raised quail or pheasant on a plantaion hunt.


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## lablover0929 (Dec 9, 2008)

You never know who will show up to the party!


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

cut'em said:


> For all the guys that said no. How many of you have shot pen raised quail or pheasant on a plantaion hunt.



Big difference- Quail and Pheasants don't migrate.


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## cut'em (Dec 9, 2008)

You are correct but your point earlier was that they might hurt the wild population. Do you not think that the pen raised upland birds could carry diseases that can be harmful to wild birds??????


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> Well Nitro, I would like to know what scientific data you gain all your wisdom from about tamies. Are you a Biologist?
> 
> Since you are from Bamberg, SC perhaps you know of the South Carolina Waterfowl Org. They have scientific data or so it seems. They also have a website showing all their activities.
> 
> ...



You Sir, are an unabashed Tamie Shooter by your own admission. (I will happily C&P your own threads if you don't recall them). I won't change your mind. You are uneducable.

I won't even reply to anything you write in the future.

For those that are interested in learning the Truth, there is plenty of Unbiased data available on the topic from the USFWS. 

Look especially for the Studies in Florida and Maryland.

SCWA is one of the main culprits in the entire fiasco. They are a joke. "real live Drs" - yeah that SCWA hired to further their agenda. 

"they have scientific data or so it seems" boy, that is a statement filled with conviction.

FWIW, maybe you should do some research- SCWA is virtually done in SC and David Weiliki (CEO) has moved his operation to NC and is trying to gain traction for another organization there. Sadly for him, most folks in NC have seen what SCWA did in the state of South Carolina. He is ineffective.

As to what have I done for Wild Ducks beside kill them? I won't go into my personal support of Conservation Organizations on the internet.. Suffice it to say, I don't condone releasing Tame Ducks.

Why don't you examine your own motivations for what you call hunting??

Call it killing or shooting, but it isn't hunting.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

cut'em said:


> You are correct but your point earlier was that they might hurt the wild population. Do you not think that the pen raised upland birds could carry diseases that can be harmful to wild birds??????



It can and has happened. It also happens in Wild populations.

Do the research and see what is out there about the topic at hand.


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

Here is one from USFWS Website. Changes are coming to all you Tamie Shooters.

FWS Official Logo  	US Fish & Wildlife Service



 Division of Migratory Bird Management

 REVIEW OF CAPTIVE-REARED MALLARDS ON SHOOTING  PRESERVES
Questions and Answers

The following is intended to answer some frequently asked questions about the issue of releasing captive-reared mallards on licensed shooting preserves. In accordance with Title 50 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 21, Section13, shooting preserves are allowed to release captive-reared mallards, provided they are properly marked, and to shoot them in any number, at any time, within the confines of their premises operating under State license or permit. This review does not involve captive-reared mallard use associated with dog training or field trials.

What is the primary issue of concern?

Prior to the mid-1980s, shooting preserves released birds from towers as a general practice and maintained tight control to prevent birds from escaping to the wild and from coming into contact with wild waterfowl. In 1985, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) received a series of inquiries regarding the interpretation of existing regulations and whether captive-reared mallards could be release in a free-flighted condition. The Service responded by strictly reiterating the content of the regulation. Since then, the regulation in 50 CFR 21.13 has been more broadly interpreted to allow shooting preserves to release free-flighted, captive-reared mallards. As a result, interest in shooting free-flighted, captive-reared mallards on shooting preserves has increased dramatically, particularly in the Atlantic Flyway. While the apparent intent of the regulation in 50 CFR 21.13 was to allow privately-operated shooting preserves unlimited opportunity to shoot captive-reared mallards, provided there is a clear distinction from wild mallards, large scale releases of these birds into areas where they are free to intermingle with wild populations has become more controversial and problematic.

Why is the Service reviewing the issue of captive-reared mallard releases on licensed shooting preserves now?

The four Flyway Councils (Atlantic, Mississippi, Central, and Pacific) and the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies urged the Service to conduct a review of the potential conflicts of releasing free-flighted, captive-reared mallards and assess their effects on wild waterfowl. With assistance from States and Flyway Councils, the Service initiated this review in 1993 but subsequently suspended it until ongoing field studies designed to investigate key aspects of the release program had been completed and results made available to the public. In 2001, again at the request of the States and Flyway Councils, the Service reinitiated an announcement of its intent to finish the review. The contents and conclusions of the Service’s review of this subject are now available for public comment.

Are captive-reared mallards classified as migratory birds and subject to the provisions of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA)?

“Migratory Birds” are defined in 50 CFR 10.12 as meaning any bird, irrespective of its origin (including raised in captivity), belonging to a species listed in the MBTA. Mallards are among those species listed and therefore, captive-reared mallards are classified as migratory birds.

What are the specific issues of concern regarding the releases of captive-reared mallards?

A number of specific concerns were examined, including the potential for disease transmission, genetic introgression, and possible impacts on important waterfowl management programs, e.g. population and harvest surveys, banding activities, and the enforcement of annual hunting regulations. Without means of containment, releases of tens-of-thousands of free-flighted, captive-reared mallards into areas inhabited by wild ducks may pose a potential threat of disease transmission between captive-reared and wild birds. Pairing and interbreeding of captive-reared mallards with wild mallards, black ducks, and mottled ducks raise questions regarding genetic diversity and integrity. The influx of large numbers of captive-reared mallards into areas managed for wild birds may render population monitoring, banding, harvest assessment, and habitat management activities by Federal, State, and Flyway programs less effective. These potential biases not only influence survey estimates but compromise Flyway harvest management strategies and the promulgation of hunting regulations for wild ducks. Also, there is a potential for increased risk of violations of Federal waterfowl hunting regulations involving live decoys, baiting, over-bagging, and take of wild ducks out of season.

Does the Service’s review address these potential conflicts with the management of wild waterfowl?

Yes. The primary focus is to assess the potential effects of free-flighted, captive-reared mallard releases and subsequent harvest on shooting preserves on the status and management of wild migratory waterfowl. Information pertaining to these potential conflicts is discussed, and options for modifying these regulations are considered. We do not oppose the shooting of captive-reared mallards on shooting preserves to supplement hunting opportunities for the public when precautions are taken to control the distribution of these birds. The Service is obligated to safeguard migratory waterfowl protected under the MBTA.

Does this review address all captive-reared mallard releases?

No. This review does not address the release and harvest of captive-reared mallards on sites not operated as shooting preserves, although similar conflicts may arise when large numbers of these birds are released into habitats frequented by wild waterfowl.

Does this review address the use of captive-reared mallards for dog training or field trials?

No. This review does not address retriever training or field trials. We fully support the use of captive-reared mallards for these uses.

What possible options does the Service propose to address these potential concerns?

We believe several alternatives are available to alleviate potential conflicts and resolve management problems associated with captive-reared mallard release programs without adversely affecting the opportunities and operations on shooting preserves. Many of these options would require some modification of Federal regulations (50 CFR parts 20 and 21). We intend to explore these options and invite public comment on any alternative that may alleviate this problem


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## doublelungdriller (Dec 9, 2008)

go to shoot pen raised birds no, but if it flyies it dies


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## Bowman#3 (Dec 9, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> " DISEASE PREVENTION AND MONITERING IN CAPTIVE REARED WATERFOWL FOR RELEASE INTO THE WILD"
> 
> Read this article presented by the North Carolina Wildlife Commission, prepared by Dr. Gary L Pearson DVM, dated 05/13/04
> 
> ...


Just go away you’re a grown man that shoots pets it is just shameful and don’t give me that stuff about it being a good place to take kids and people for there first time. It is like saying that it’s ok to let a kid shoot a deer over a big pile of corn because well its there first one so it’s ok. NO its not!!! Do you feel the need to hunt these places because you won’t put in the leg work to find real birds?


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## DUD (Dec 9, 2008)




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## MustangMAtt30 (Dec 9, 2008)

Big fat No!


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## Nitro (Dec 9, 2008)

FWIW, Gary L. Pearson, DVM of Jamestown, ND is (or was) a paid consultant to the SCWA...... I would say, that makes his a biased opinion on the matter at hand.


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## Josh0031 (Dec 9, 2008)

we have a place beside skeeter branch where we kill alot of their birds and we have killed a couple SCWA  birds on the lake. I'm not going to ask a duck where it's from before I kill it so I guess I kill tammies and I enjoy killing them just as much as the wild ones they fold up the same.


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## ringy (Dec 9, 2008)

This is what you get around pen raised birds.  its crap.  That was my hunt yesterday on Jackson


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## ringy (Dec 9, 2008)

[/IMG]


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## Golden BB (Dec 9, 2008)

To whom it may concern, if you have the "little man syndrome" and you need to shoot tamies to make you feel like a waterfowler then i say go for it, to each his own.  If your dog needs working and you have to shoot live birds, get some pigeons.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Dec 9, 2008)

I dont know if i would or not. I wouldnt shoot a pen raised deer but i would go on a quail hunt with liberated birds. I would go on a pheasant tower shoot but i am unsure about ducks. Now thats as true as i can be about it. To each their own. If thats what makes you happy then blast em.


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## Gut_Pile (Dec 9, 2008)

Never have...but if I got a free trip out of it to go do it for a weeked or so I might have to give it a try. Can't say I would make a practice out of it and do it all the time but I think you should try everything once...unless it's illegal.


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## gaboy1 (Dec 9, 2008)

Sad  if you have to shoot pen raised birds. You are either lazy or well lazy.
To ask another man what he has done for wild birds when you have been detrimental to the wild species and to hunting in general, by introducing a feral specimen into the ecosystem is hypocritical at best.

Also, using the S.C. tamie guy's as a fact backer is hilarious


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## chase870 (Dec 9, 2008)

No not at a place you go to pay and shoot and them, whats the point. You might as well hunt chickens in a chicken house. I dont think these birds should be allowed to mix in and breed with wild ducks, nothing good will come from it. If all the money that was spent on tamie ducks was put into preserving breeding habitat, and predator controll the numbers of wild ducks would rise and the need for tamie ducks would be gone, with the exception of the lazy slob hunters that shoot tamies on a regular basis


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## southgadrake (Dec 9, 2008)

Like shooting fish in a barrell, taking candy from a baby etc....

Its a no.


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## waterdogs (Dec 9, 2008)

I would do it for dog training reasons. You get to work a dog and you even get ducks for training later on.


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## Robk (Dec 9, 2008)

nope.  couldn't do it.  I got talked not long ago into being part of a pheasant shoot.  Just didn't seem right but I was a guest and didn't want to offend the host.  Won't be back next year.  Wasn't any "Hunting" to it.

R


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## georgiaboy (Dec 9, 2008)

ringy said:


> This is what you get around pen raised birds.  its crap.  That was my hunt yesterday on Jackson



Are those mallard-ish birds in the picture crossed with pen raised?  That snow mallard looks like a park duck, muscovy or whatever.    Whats the "black" duck?

*sorry to hijack, just curious.


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## d_white (Dec 9, 2008)

I'm going to open up a "waterfowl preserve."  I'm going to have a nice website with all kinds of pictures of ponds and lodges, etc that I will tell people is my hunting preserve.
When people book a hunt with me, they will get the directions.  They will arrive out at my farm and receive a swift kick in the crotch and get left there.


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## vowell462 (Dec 9, 2008)

My wife recomends her OBGYN for you guys.Just put some powder on it.


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## dognducks (Dec 10, 2008)

Golden BB said:


> If your dog needs working and you have to shoot live birds, get some pigeons.



Though I'd never pull the trigger at a preserve, if I had the opportunity to work a dog in these situations I would. These ducks are going to die anyways by killers (not hunters) so why not take the opportunity to better your waterfowling buddy? You cannot "stage" a hunting situation like a preserve offers with pigeons and a bird boy. Please let the bashing on me begin but this is how i feel.


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## Jack Ryan (Dec 10, 2008)

GSUJake said:


> If the season was slow and you got a pretty good deal to go shoot some pen raised ducks that fly good would you? You can shoot just as many as you want.



If they were crapping on my lawn I would.


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## NGaHunter (Dec 10, 2008)

During the off season I go buy some for training. Have not ever went to a preserve to shoot them.  Its the only legal way to get your dog a live duck during off season.  If you do like Lablover0929 does and save a few spoonies your breaking the law.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

NGaHunter said:


> During the off season I go buy some for training. Have not ever went to a preserve to shoot them.  Its the only legal way to get your dog a live duck during off season.  If you do like Lablover0929 does and save a few spoonies your breaking the law.



Breaking the law ? Please explain.


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## FlightBird (Dec 10, 2008)

*The way i see it*

If a person who has never been duck hunting goes to a perserve to shoot ducks and gets hooked , then you have one more person to stand up beside you to support your  hunting rights.


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## muddy_feet (Dec 10, 2008)

Shooting a tammie mallard is like kissing your sister....


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## Miguel Cervantes (Dec 10, 2008)

I eat pen raised beef and poultry, why not add a little excitement to it. That is if it is for food.

If you're doing it for the mounts, then I don't think there is much sport to that.


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## d_white (Dec 10, 2008)

> Are there preserves I won't go to, yes! I am picky about where I hunt as well.



No comment really..that just made me chuckle.


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## scsportsman (Dec 10, 2008)

got no problem with shooting a tamie they eat just fine


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

scooter1 said:


> I eat pen raised beef and poultry, why not add a little excitement to it. That is if it is for food.
> 
> If you're doing it for the mounts, then I don't think there is much sport to that.




$30 per bird for food is kinda ridiculous !! 

"...Mallard Package #1: 
Our released mallard duck hunting package is priced at $30.00 per duck with a four duck minimum per hunter. We require a minimum of two shooters in the blind. 
Four may be the minimum but nobody can shoot just four! "

http://www.tradewateroutfitters.com/mallardpackages.html

kingoftamieshoots01, if this is not normal price i appologize, i am not that educated on tamie hunts.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Dec 10, 2008)

*Hee! Hee!*



muddy_feet said:


> Shooting a tammie mallard is like kissing your sister....


THATS DANG HILARIOUS THERE.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> Ignorance and Arrogance is a bad mix. Your post says it all.
> 
> My question to you is what have you done for the Wild ducks other than shoot them in the lips?
> 
> ...



Read above answers.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> Taking your dog to a duck hunting preserve after all that boring yard work is an excellent way to expose it to the real hunt. Best thing to do is don't even carry a shotgun, let the others do the shooting while you work your dog.
> Your dog will learn quickly about how to deal with cripples that hide and that dive under water. Also teaching the dog to mark real flying birds rather than birds tossed from wingers becomes a reality. Handling on blind retrieves past dead birds to a cripple often happens as well.
> 
> All my dogs have been to duck hunting preserves since 1987 and will continue to go to them when I want to introduce the dogs to the actual hunt. You simply cannot duplicate hunting in a training group or by throwing bumpers or dead birds for them, this will do it.
> ...




Nope, never been and never will go.  Never been to a gay bar and never will, so I guess i will never know how they operate either.  Some things I will just never do.


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## d_white (Dec 10, 2008)

> Ignorance and Arrogance is a bad mix.
> 
> My question to you macho macho duck hunters is what have you done for the Wild ducks other than shoot them in the lips? How many of you even used a trained retriever to find those cripples or do you just shoot another one because its too tough to retrieve yourself.
> 
> ...




You may need to read the forum rules.
Maybe I should PM some of the super mods.


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## muddy_feet (Dec 10, 2008)

> My question to you macho macho duck hunters is what have you done for the Wild ducks other than shoot them in the lips? How many of you even used a trained retriever to find those cripples or do you just shoot another one because its too tough to retrieve yourself.



Yes and it wasn't a full blooded registered anything.  I had her spayed so she would breed, you know much like tammie mallards.


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## lambos77 (Dec 10, 2008)

If it flies like a duck.


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## Judge (Dec 10, 2008)

*Hand Caught*

I have a "friend" who claims to catch pen raised quail with his hands, I would think catching pen raised ducks would be more of a challange.

Of course, this is the same friend who had an owl land on his gun barrell while sitting in a deer stand.


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## NGaHunter (Dec 10, 2008)

Golden BB said:


> Breaking the law ? Please explain.



Well you will be in procession of wild game out of season.  Thats why the pro trainers have to have receipts for the birds they are using.  And the birds have to be marked...usually they clip a toe.  If you don't believe it just find a trainer by the name of Bo Taylor and ask him


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

NGaHunter said:


> Well you will be in procession of wild game out of season.  Thats why the pro trainers have to have receipts for the birds they are using.  And the birds have to be marked...usually they clip a toe.  If you don't believe it just find a trainer by the name of Bo Taylor and ask him




Even if they are dead and in the freezer ?


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## Nitro (Dec 10, 2008)

NGaHunter said:


> Well you will be in procession of wild game out of season.  Thats why the pro trainers have to have receipts for the birds they are using.  And the birds have to be marked...usually they clip a toe.  If you don't believe it just find a trainer by the name of Bo Taylor and ask him



I know Bo 

He got in a small jam in No Dak......


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## Nitro (Dec 10, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> Ignorance and Arrogance is a bad mix.
> 
> Seems that you Sir, have plenty of both
> 
> I am tired of wasting my time on this subject.



So, let's see if you have character and honor (two things I REALLY value in a person) what say you don't write anything on the subject anymore and let the issue die?? Well?


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## sweet 16 (Dec 10, 2008)

I've done it in Ark. Sucks...They all come out of a barn and fly directly to your pond. They have been trained since birth to feed in the pond. Guide was standing next to his truck, 10 feet from us. Didn't really have to call. He told me he wanted to have something to offer the hunters who think just because they pay for guided trip and ducks aren't migrating they should get money back.


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## Boudreaux (Dec 10, 2008)

Golden BB said:


> Even if they are dead and in the freezer ?


 

That's my question, too.  

I guess I need to re-read the possession rules, because if I pull a duck outta the freezer in February to take it to the taxidermist, I guess I am also breaking the law.  Didn't realize that possession laws went to 0 outside of the season.  

Gotta go.  I now have to get on over to the taxidermist before the end of the season.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

I would be screwed with all the cans in the freezer !!


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## NGaHunter (Dec 10, 2008)

Golden BB said:


> Even if they are dead and in the freezer ?



Yep...Thats what happened to Bo.  They were dead and in the freezer, he would get them out and use them for training.  Taking them to the Taxidermist is alot different than putting them in a winger and training with them.  Thats why I don't mind paying $9 a bird to train with.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow, never knew that one.


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## Golden BB (Dec 10, 2008)

Wasn't he doing some other shady stuff as well ?


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## Boudreaux (Dec 10, 2008)

NGaHunter said:


> Taking them to the Taxidermist is alot different than putting them in a winger and training with them..


 
I don't see how.  If you're stopped leaving your house, you still have a frozen bird with you.  

I've been googling "migratory bird possession" and don't see anything that says you can't possess a bird out-of-season.  I did find a reference to it being illegal to possess a "freshly killed" migratory game bird during the closed season at the Ohio Admin Code web site http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-7-03, but that's about it.

Can you provide a legal reference that states it is illegal to possess a dead migratory game bird during the closed season?  How do taxidermist get around such a law?


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## cut'em (Dec 10, 2008)

NGaHunter said:


> Well you will be in procession of wild game out of season.  Thats why the pro trainers have to have receipts for the birds they are using.  And the birds have to be marked...usually they clip a toe.  If you don't believe it just find a trainer by the name of Bo Taylor and ask him



I really had no clue that this was enforced by the game and fish. So what if you kill one during the season and you want to get it stuffed but you dont have the funds to do it right away and you are going to wait until the summer months when you have the money. Do you have to have the duck tagged.(date,your name, ect....)


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## hevishot (Dec 10, 2008)

scwa, in my opinion, is a nothing more than a big joke and have done more harm than good as they continue to perpetuate a pseudo duck "program" that is pure craps...some of my best memories and hunts have been right there in the Cooper river when it was real...back before SCWA brainwashed the plantations into their tammie program...the widgeons were so thick..teal and ringnecks poured in and it was awesome....it was a true buzz kill the first time I heard that lonesome greenhead quacking for a place to sit only to have my dog bring back the most pathetic example of a mallard I have ever seen...but he had a band!!! whooot! That band and about 80 others or so rest in peace right there in the Blessing Plantation rice field...same field my dogs ashes were scattered...RIP Cole sorry you ever got to even have the feathers of a sorry ol tammie in your mout....


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## dognducks (Dec 10, 2008)

Boudreaux said:


> I don't see how.  If you're stopped leaving your house, you still have a frozen bird with you.
> 
> I've been googling "migratory bird possession" and don't see anything that says you can't possess a bird out-of-season.  I did find a reference to it being illegal to possess a "freshly killed" migratory game bird during the closed season at the Ohio Admin Code web site http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-7-03, but that's about it.
> 
> Can you provide a legal reference that states it is illegal to possess a dead migratory game bird out during the closed season?  How do taxidermist get around such a law?



wouldn't it be considered wasting game if you were out there chunking them out of wingers?


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## Boudreaux (Dec 10, 2008)

dognducks said:


> wouldn't it be considered wasting game if you were out there chunking them out of wingers?


 
Wanton waste is not the issue at debate here, possession is.

And I think you can make an argument that you are not "wasting" it if you are using it for trainng purposes.  If you say it's wasted because it didn't become tablefare, wouldn't the same be applied to all taxidermy work?


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## ngaduck (Dec 10, 2008)

FlightBird said:


> If a person who has never been duck hunting goes to a perserve to shoot ducks and gets hooked , then you have one more person to stand up beside you to support your  hunting rights.



What happens when they go on a real duck hunt and lands a big goose egg, which happens in Georgia quite frequently?  Then you have someone who is now diappointed and turned off by the whole hunting of real ducks.  Bad argument.

If you really want to get someone hooked on duck hunting, take them out of state on a guided hunt.  May not kill mallards as you would at a preserve, but they will more than likely kill something.


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## Boudreaux (Dec 10, 2008)

Took a client duck hunting last weekend.  He shot a woody drake - his first duck ever - on a GA farm pond.  He's ready to go again.  Doesn't have to be a limit or a pile of ducks to get one hooked.

Just needs to be a good experience.  I realize that some only equate a good experience to a limit of ducks, but others can find enjoyment in less.


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## ngaduck (Dec 10, 2008)

Boudreaux said:


> Doesn't have to be a limit or a pile of ducks to get one hooked.
> 
> Just needs to be a good experience.  I realize that some only equate a good experience to a limit of ducks, but others can find enjoyment in less.



I'm not saying that you have to limit out everytime you go out.  All I was saying that his argument was not very strong in support of shooting pen raised birds.  That would not be the way that I would introduce someone to duck hunting.  I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying about the experience.  This is my first season living and hunting in Louisiana.  Yeah, the hunting is much better than in North Georgia and I have met quite a few guys to hunt with, but some of my most memorable hunts are with the guys that I have been hunting with for years back home in Georgia.


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## Boudreaux (Dec 10, 2008)

ngaduck said:


> I'm not saying that you have to limit out everytime you go out. All I was saying that his argument was not very strong in support of shooting pen raised birds. That would not be the way that I would introduce someone to duck hunting. I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying about the experience. This is my first season living and hunting in Louisiana. Yeah, the hunting is much better than in North Georgia and I have met quite a few guys to hunt with, but some of my most memorable hunts are with the guys that I have been hunting with for years back home in Georgia.


 
I understood and didn't mean to pick an argument with you.  I hunt out of state with guides as well.  Really just meant to give another instance where you can get someone hooked without shooting a pile of tamies.

Seems as if we made opposite moves.  I'm originally from NELA and moved to Atl in 1995.  Yours was a much better move for the duck hunting!


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## lablover0929 (Dec 10, 2008)

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.  I agree with the mod's, if you don't agree, then don't post.

If you can't change your mind, you will not change the mind of others.  

The biggest lesson here is that when Man tried to manipulate Mother Nature, it has come back to bite Man.  We have success in assisting Mother Nature, but like your own Mom, you never back talk a Mother!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MustangMAtt30 (Dec 10, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> To see what the South Carolina Waterfowl Association is doing for public duck hunting, click on this link and read.  Heavyshot states " in my opinion SCWA is nothing more than a big joke".  Not sure what his agenda is but from what I have read about what they do, I would love to see them open up here in Ga.
> 
> http://www.scwa.org/feature/scwa public hunters.html



Blah blah blah blah.  I thought you were done educating us on this subject?


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## DUD (Dec 10, 2008)

Educating?  I dont consider what he is saying as educating.  Its more like nonsense!


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## Chase Simmemon (Dec 10, 2008)

I wouldn't have a problem with anyone shooting a tamie if they didn't cause as much of an impact on the wild populations of black ducks, mottled ducks, and even wild mallards as they do. To each is his own, and if you get your kicks and giggles from shooting a tamie thats fine, but I believe in the long run that these tamies are going to dilute the wild gene pool of blacks and mottled ducks out of existence. On top of tamies aggresive breeding, there is also the chance of spreading diseases such as avian cholera, duck plague, avian botulism, and now, possibly, avian bird flu. Whenever you congregate a whole lot of birds, as well as other animals, in a confined area, especially while feeding, the possibly of spreading diseases dramatically increases. Like most others had said, my feelings are if you want to work your dog, throw a bumper, if you want to introduce a kid or newb to duck hunting, introduce them to the real thing, show them that waterfowling is hard work and far more difficult then shooting pets, and if you need to work on your shooting, shoot some clay pigeons.


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## Nitro (Dec 10, 2008)

Nothing else to say- 

From the Frost Waterfowl Trust website " our Ducks are a mere three generations from the wild"


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## Nitro (Dec 10, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> To see what the South Carolina Waterfowl Association is doing for public duck hunting, click on this link and read.  Heavyshot states " in my opinion SCWA is nothing more than a big joke".  Not sure what his agenda is but from what I have read about what they do, I would love to see them open up here in Ga.
> 
> http://www.scwa.org/feature/scwa public hunters.html



You Sir, are delusional if you think SCWA is doing ANYTHING for the public. If you really knew what you are talking about, you would know that SCWA is reviled by the true Wild Duck hunter in SC.  In SC, Weilicki and his organization is a joke - and being forced out gradually (why do you think they are trying to move into NC?)

 Why don't you do this Wingmaestro- post up your questions on www.scducks.com and ask their opinion. 

Be prepared for more "slanderous and inflammatory"comments  and "personal attacks " the likes of which you have yet to receive here.

Be sure to tell them you don't think there is anything wrong with releasing Tamies.

I knew you weren't a man of principle after the first silly Tamie post you put up here.

The next time I go by Rimini and see a bunch of Tamies on the roadside , standing there waiting to be fed, I'll run over as many of the inbreds as possible - Wingmaestro, how many of the bands do you want for your ego lanyard?? (You will have to round them back out however).

FWIW, a SCWA type organization WAS tried here- Georgia Waterfowl Association. They had great ideas and some backing - until they wanted to do a Tamie program.

That ended the deal. ( I helped).

You asked in an earlier post "what have you done for Wild Ducks-?" I replied- "I don't support releasing Tamies" - I will proudly stand by my convictions.

I wanna read you say- " I'm a proud Tamie shooter" 

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Sad that a man can't learn, or admit his beliefs are so flawed.

I am a Waterfowler- you are a Tamie shooter. At the end of the day, that is what truly counts.


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## lablover0929 (Dec 10, 2008)

Its lonely out there at the end of the plank, ole windy.  Long, long, long line of friends here on this forum.  If you don't have anything nice or correct to say, keep your fingers off of the keyboard.
I hear that the SC forums are looking for a well seasoned knowledgeable person like yourself to teach the better methods of tammie shooting.

Good day


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## Mark K (Dec 10, 2008)

You can tell alot from peoples post. First of all let me say if you want to shoot tamies by all means shoot them. But do not post pics or brag about the hunt you went on, it's not hunting it's shooting. Anyone who takes a child on one of these isn't a hunter to begin with. Are you to lazy to introduce a child the right way? Yes, I have children and yes, they hunt and yes, they kill ducks, deer, etc. They were introduced to the sport the right way. Scouting during the off season - believe it or not more ducks show up after the season than during. I get turned down more than I get permission, but when we do get permission it's generally good hunting.

Wingmaster your quick to call someone out for scientific facts and when they're produced you all of a sudden turn into Mr. Conservation. Yes I donate to DU & Delta. I put out Woodduck boxes. I don't go on tamie hunts.

Where did you get your degree? I'm curious, have you ever been on an actual duck hunt where someone didn't have to load your gun and call the ducks in. I know, I don't know you, but like I said just reading your post that's how you come across. So what have you done for the ducks, besides shooting?


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## Bowman#3 (Dec 11, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> I am not responding to such Trailer Trash remarks.
> 
> These personal attacks are totally against the rules of this forum.



“Money does not define class ”


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## notnksnemor (Dec 11, 2008)

If you want to keep posting on this subject, keep it civil or the thread will be locked.


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## Paddle (Dec 11, 2008)

This thread has gotten very long and I haven't read the whole thing but (this might have been ask before) 

 Is it okay to shoot anything pen raised? If its okay for a few birds why not all of them? 

 I have never been on a hunt where you shoot pen raised birds. I have never been on one of those tower hunts either.


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## lablover0929 (Dec 11, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> I am not responding to such Trailer Trash remarks.
> 
> These personal attacks are totally against the rules of this forum.


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## ugabulldog56 (Dec 11, 2008)

Here Wingmaster I'm giving this to you.  Its yours, go ahead and give it a toot.


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## browning84 (Dec 11, 2008)

I have been reading the Tammie threads for a while now and there have been several threads and posts suggesting the cons of introducing them and because you shoot them you think its ok. Yes it is a great tool for training dogs because it is not possible to recreate a hunting scenario such as those seen in the wild duck hunting world by throwing pigeons, this does not mean I am condoning shooting tammies because I’m not. My passion is really training dogs but I am new to the duck world. This is not hunting this is shooting as has been stated before. You are a 50 something year old man who tries to make other look stupid and feel as though you are the wing master by stating the pro of shooting these birds and I only see one pro and that to better your dogs ability at a much faster left rate then you would hunting wild birds. Then you through all these facts out by “Dr.’s” that by the way are being paid to produce “facts” showing how the tammies are not a bad idea and in fact they suggest they are a good thing. You try to justify your tammie shooting by posting about all you have done with DU. I am new to this sport and have my own opinions and even I think this whole tammie deal is a bad idea if only for the sole reason that its not hunting. With the money you have probably spent on shooting these birds you could have bought a few really nice skeet throwers and you can set up a course of your own if you really want to shoot something that bad. And then when someone disagrees with you and questions your motives you simply whine and state that this is a personal attack and that this is totally against the rules so it will draw the attention of the powers that be. 

Why do you shoot tame birds, how is that fun for anyone besides the dog? If you do it for the dog training stop bringing your gun I am sure these places know you well enough by now to just let you bring your dog an watch there pets fly and die and you can have your dog retrieve them. I don’t want to hear your science crap of why you shoot them, I want to he Stephan Kendall state specifically why he shoots them.
THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK!!!!


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## ugabulldog56 (Dec 11, 2008)

browning84 said:


> I have been reading the Tammie threads for a while now and there have been several threads and posts suggesting the cons of introducing them and because you shoot them you think its ok. Yes it is a great tool for training dogs because it is not possible to recreate a hunting scenario such as those seen in the wild duck hunting world by throwing pigeons, this does not mean I am condoning shooting tammies because I’m not. My passion is really training dogs but I am new to the duck world. This is not hunting this is shooting as has been stated before. You are a 50 something year old man who tries to make other look stupid and feel as though you are the wing master by stating the pro of shooting these birds and I only see one pro and that to better your dogs ability at a much faster left rate then you would hunting wild birds. Then you through all these facts out by “Dr.’s” that by the way are being paid to produce “facts” showing how the tammies are not a bad idea and in fact they suggest they are a good thing. You try to justify your tammie shooting by posting about all you have done with DU. I am new to this sport and have my own opinions and even I think this whole tammie deal is a bad idea if only for the sole reason that its not hunting. With the money you have probably spent on shooting these birds you could have bought a few really nice skeet throwers and you can set up a course of your own if you really want to shoot something that bad. And then when someone disagrees with you and questions your motives you simply whine and state that this is a personal attack and that this is totally against the rules so it will draw the attention of the powers that be.
> 
> Why do you shoot tame birds, how is that fun for anyone besides the dog? If you do it for the dog training stop bringing your gun I am sure these places know you well enough by now to just let you bring your dog an watch there pets fly and die and you can have your dog retrieve them. I don’t want to hear your science crap of why you shoot them, I want to he Stephan Kendall state specifically why he shoots them.
> THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK!!!!





Well said Browning84.  I agree it should only be used for dog training.....but.....all the ducks used for the training should be killed therefore they have no chance to escape into the wild.


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## browning84 (Dec 11, 2008)

Thats why if your going to do it they should only release 1 and at most 2 birds at a time if there are severals shooters and the guides need to be up on their shooting game so if their clients can shoot em the guide can. None should make it out alive


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## GSUJake (Dec 11, 2008)

Wingmaster stop the crying before my thread gets closed. I will bring you a box of kleenex but dang, you are good at whinning until something gets closed. You'd think you're in middle school. This is very informative and would like for people to read it.


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## GSUJake (Dec 11, 2008)

You believe what you want and one little site is all you go off of. Far from scientific.


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## browning84 (Dec 11, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> This is a classic personal attack out of you, you even provide my name and yet you hide like a coward behind your browing 84 name.
> 
> I have posted this before and I will state it again. " Never argue with  idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
> 
> ...



This is classic response from you when questioned why you shot tame birds and yet you have neglected to answer yet again. I asked for your personal reasons not for scientific data. Anyone one with knowledge of how to search the internet can find someone else’s scientific data. If you want to play by your rules then calling me and Idiot which is what you are doing is a personal attack but I don’t care what you say it doesn’t bother me, because nothing but arrogant wealthy ignorance come out of your mouth and into the keyboard. You shy away from personal questions which you call attacks. If you wear you feelings on your shoulders they are going to get dirty. I don’t care that you are here and that you post, it bring comic relieve into my life because I know people like you and it gives me my daily chuckle. So you think you deserve respect from everyone here and when you don’t get it so you pitch a hissy fit and still at the same time avoiding the direct questions asked of you. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. 

You ask people where there degrees are from. Well sir I assume since you are so open about all the wonderful things you have done for the duck and the money you have given in support. What are you scientific qualifications, please do tell.


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## GSUJake (Dec 11, 2008)

see my signature


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## dawg2 (Dec 11, 2008)

What is the difference in shooting pen raised ducks and pen raised quail?  Or even better, pen raised pheasant that isn't even a native bird to the United States?  Or catching raccoons and then releasing them for "training" a dog?  Or catching hogs for training dogs?


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## browning84 (Dec 11, 2008)

I know nothing about coons so I can’t speak of the release of those animals. First the release of pheasant is for the sole purpose of shooting not hunting. They are called Shoots for a reason. The difference in them and ducks is we have no established populations of pheasant anywhere to my knowledge in this state, They do not migrate in any form, and they are an upland bird so if all are not killed they will most likely stick around and can be hunted and eliminated but it not as big deal because there is not native species for them to intermingle with. As for Quail, in a large portion of the state the population of quail is nearly nonexistent. Therefore you place birds for your dogs to hunt and for you to shot. Its not really quail hunting when its done like this but in most of the state that is how it is done. When done this way it mainly only affects your property because these birds typically don’t fly far. But ducks migrate several states therefore what you do to affect your duck population here also affects those north of us because these are migrating birds. I have no problem with people shooting tame birds as long as all birds are sought after and killed as most people do with released quail and pheasant. 
That is the difference.


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## GSUJake (Dec 11, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> What is the difference in shooting pen raised ducks and pen raised quail?  Or even better, pen raised pheasant that isn't even a native bird to the United States?  Or catching raccoons and then releasing them for "training" a dog?  Or catching hogs for training dogs?



Ducks migrate, tammies breed wild ducks and it makes their blood lines impure. Tammies are very agressive when it comes to breeding. Tammies are hurting the black duck population. They are also hurting the mottled duck population. There's a lot of info on this thread about it. Take a few minutes to read it and it should answer your questions


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## hevishot (Dec 11, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> To see what the South Carolina Waterfowl Association is doing for public duck hunting, click on this link and read.  Heavyshot states " in my opinion SCWA is nothing more than a big joke".  Not sure what his agenda is but from what I have read about what they do, I would love to see them open up here in Ga.
> 
> http://www.scwa.org/feature/scwa public hunters.html



lord have mercy, bo...you dont have a clue...thats just a fact, not a personal attack. My agenda(as I'm accused of having) is to promote waterfowling...real waterfowling...not ruining native species, not releasing ducks to make the shooting easier, not having bands from the SCWA on my lanyard...but to promote and protect the real deal...I'm sure you would LOVE for SCWA to "open" here...and that sir, is sad. You "resume" is amusing..you claim to be a conservationist yet you promote things that go against grain of conservation....


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## notnksnemor (Dec 11, 2008)

This one has run its course


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