# Mystery Snake



## sailorjohn (Jul 22, 2007)

Dont have much time, just wanted to post this. I killed a 5' rattle snake outside my house the other day, strange thing is, he didnt have a rattle. I would write it off as a fluke, but last year my neihbor killed one just like it. Other than the lack of a rattle, they both looked just like a timberback.

Any ideas?


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## Vernon Holt (Jul 22, 2007)

No mystery here.  They lose them often.  Under wet ground (and grass) conditions the rattles become softened and are easily lost.  No problem, he simply grows another set, over time of course.


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## shaggybill (Jul 24, 2007)

Do you have any pictures? Vernon is right in that they can easily lose their rattles, but they will still keep their first "button." Did it have something like that, or did the tail taper down to a point?


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## turky93 (Jul 24, 2007)

ya it could have very esily lost its rattle...but many snakes ratlle tails in defense. any pics?


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## Snakeman (Jul 24, 2007)

I've never heard of a timberback before.  How about a picture?

The Snakeman


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## sailorjohn (Jul 25, 2007)

I wish I had a picture, but I had just moved into the house. I dont usually shoot snakes, even the poisonus ones, but this one was a bit too brave and WAY to close to the house. 

He did have a blunt end to his tail, but no rattle what so ever, no part or piece. The tail was solid black for about 4-5" from the tip of his tail.

I was only interested because while Ive seen MANY 'Canebreaks' in north Ga, these are the first 2 Ive seen here in Augusta, and it seemed rather strange that they had NO rattle, not one bit.

Snakeman, here is a pic of a Timberback, pretty common snake here in Ga. They come in alot more colors than any wants to admit, but this one is closest to what I have around my house.


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## shaggybill (Jul 25, 2007)

Ah, a timber rattlesnake. I've never heard anyone call them a timberback. I guess that's a combination of the names timber and diamonback (as a general rule, they don't interbreed in the wild).

Maybe somebody in your area doesn't want to kill the snakes, but they like the rattles, so they just chop them off.


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## sailorjohn (Jul 25, 2007)

Oops, forgot about that. Hard to shake names you learned as a kid. Whats even sadder is that when I searched for the pic, I searched for a Timber Rattlesnake. Makes me kind of POed though that wiki-pedia doesnt list 'Timberback' as a common name, up in Dawsonville its the only name I ever heard it called.


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## owl (Jul 26, 2007)

could have been a copperhead they have pattern and color somewhat like that of rattlers but no rattle.


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## potsticker (Jul 26, 2007)

id like to see a pic. did you check his mouth for fangs after dispatching it?


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## Jody Hawk (Jul 29, 2007)

I killed a five foot timber rattler in Putnam County years ago. Strange thing was, it only had a rattle and a button. Odd to see a snake that big without a long strand of rattles.


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## knifemaker (Jul 31, 2007)

owl said:


> could have been a copperhead they have pattern and color somewhat like that of rattlers but no rattle.



I don't think I've ever seen a five foot copperhead. That'd be a biggy.


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## Pro-hunter (Aug 7, 2007)

Might have been a "copper bellied rattle moccasin". We have them around here. Sometimes they have rattles, sometimes they don't.


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## Count Down (Aug 7, 2007)

Pro-hunter said:


> Might have been a "copper bellied rattle moccasin".


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## Pale Blue Dun (Aug 7, 2007)

It was a cobra.


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## Shane Dockery (Aug 7, 2007)

Timber Rattlesnakes are also referred to as Cane Snakes


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## Quack-Wacker (Aug 16, 2007)

sounds like you killed a rat snake can be confused as a timber rattler next tim look for loreal pits between the eye's and nostril


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## Robbie101 (Aug 29, 2007)

well, i aint gettin close enough to look at that unless he aint breathing............


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## RP1969 (Aug 29, 2007)

Pro-hunter said:


> Might have been a "copper bellied rattle moccasin". We have them around here. Sometimes they have rattles, sometimes they don't.



Or quite possibly the ever elusive "cotton headed rattle mouth"


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## xpertgreg (Aug 29, 2007)

round here if it ain't black or green, it's dead.

gw


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## Toliver (Aug 29, 2007)

Sounds to me like they're taking off their own rattles so they can sneak up on you.


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## woody10 (Sep 5, 2007)

it could have been a moccasin some of them have a brown color and a pattern like a timberrattler just darker.


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## BurningMan (Sep 9, 2007)

Maybe a hognose, they can be kinda fat and have a dark pattern over light brown.  I'd guess with no rattles that it wasn't a rattler.


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## dawg2 (Sep 21, 2007)

Probably a Cobra-rattler


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## SHOOT FREAK (Oct 13, 2007)

i would think a type of hog nose spreadnouter.


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## deedly (Oct 14, 2007)

Hognose and spreading adders are the same snake I believe.  They only grow to about 1 foot in length at the most.


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## biggtruxx (Oct 14, 2007)

knifemaker said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a five foot copperhead. That'd be a biggy.


 


now you have....... hard labor creek state park    

took this pic back in august

he was big around as a large lemon and 5 ft


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## Toliver (Oct 14, 2007)

Isn't it great how they blend in with the leaf litter so you have a sporting chance of stepping on them before you see them?


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## dale (Oct 15, 2007)

where in the heck have they been in enough rain and wet ground to loose the rattles


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 6, 2007)

shaggybill said:


> Do you have any pictures? Vernon is right in that they can easily lose their rattles, but they will still keep their first "button." Did it have something like that, or did the tail taper down to a point?




They don't keep their button very often. Most of the time the button is lost during a shed. if they do still have a button you can age them easily, but most of the time the button falls off first. It is not uncommon to find one that has no rattles at all. They will grow back.


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 6, 2007)

Here's a pic of a 5ft long timber rattler


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## shaggybill (Nov 7, 2007)

GrlsHnt2 said:


> They don't keep their button very often. Most of the time the button is lost during a shed. if they do still have a button you can age them easily, but most of the time the button falls off first. It is not uncommon to find one that has no rattles at all. They will grow back.



First let me clarify that by "button" I mean the very first rattle on a rattlesnakes rattle.

A rattlesnake will always have at least one button unless it is literally cut off. The button is part of the snake and it can't fall off. Each time a rattlesnake sheds, it adds one "rattle." So what I'm getting at is that while the string of rattles can fall off easily, there will always be a button. 

Taking all that into consideration, you can see why the number of rattles on a rattler is a poor indicator of age.


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## siberian1 (Nov 7, 2007)

Why did you run over that snake? Rattlers are getting rarer and rarer?


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## Doyle (Nov 7, 2007)

siberian1 said:


> Why did you run over that snake? Rattlers are getting rarer and rarer?



I really don't have a problem with that.


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## Trizey (Nov 14, 2007)

siberian1 said:


> Why did you run over that snake? Rattlers are getting rarer and rarer?



Not on my property....


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 14, 2007)

Not sure where you got your info. After my husband killed that rattlesnake, I did research on the internet to try and figure out how to age it. A rattler grows a rattle every time it sheds. From the research I found, it tells me it is very difficult to age a rattler UNLESS it still has it's button. If the button is still there, then all other rattles are intact, and you can age it properly. If the button is gone, you can not be sure the other remaining rattles are all that should be there and you can't age the snake. Therefore, the button does have the possibility to come off.



shaggybill said:


> First let me clarify that by "button" I mean the very first rattle on a rattlesnakes rattle.
> 
> A rattlesnake will always have at least one button unless it is literally cut off. The button is part of the snake and it can't fall off. Each time a rattlesnake sheds, it adds one "rattle." So what I'm getting at is that while the string of rattles can fall off easily, there will always be a button.
> 
> Taking all that into consideration, you can see why the number of rattles on a rattler is a poor indicator of age.


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 14, 2007)

siberian1 said:


> Why did you run over that snake? Rattlers are getting rarer and rarer?



Not sure if you are referring to me. My husband stepped on that snake while walking to his stand before daylight a month ago. He shot it with his rifle and put it on the hood of his truck to transport it back to camp for others to look at. It just happened to be laying next to the tire. I wish he had run over it instead of stepping on it!


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## mbhawkins123 (Nov 14, 2007)

YOU CANT age a rattlesnake by its rattles...a new rattle is made every time a snake sheds...a snake sheds when it grows out of its old skin...and its grows out of its old skin by eating ...so if it eats more, the more time it sheds....few meals , less shedding .


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## shaggybill (Nov 15, 2007)

GrlsHnt2 said:


> Not sure where you got your info.



I got my info from 5 years of being involved in reptile research and surveying.  Herpetology is sort of how I spend most of my time and a lot of it spent on timber rattlesnakes. You may have misread the information, or maybe the website you read was written by someone who doesn't know much about rattlesnakes, but they definitely cannot lose their buttons, they are permanently attached. Rattles can fall off at anytime and for any reason, but the button will always be there. I "caught" a rattler last fall and the back half of its rattles just fell off for no other reason than its tail was swinging back and forth. It still had 6 rattles attached, not including the button. Here's a picture of it after 7 of its rattles fell off. You can see the button (it's white for some reason).





Rattlesnake

And here's a baby rattler with only its button.





Baby rattlesnake with button


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 15, 2007)

shaggybill said:


> I got my info from 5 years of being involved in reptile research and surveying.  Herpetology is sort of how I spend most of my time and a lot of it spent on timber rattlesnakes. You may have misread the information, or maybe the website you read was written by someone who doesn't know much about rattlesnakes, but they definitely cannot lose their buttons, they are permanently attached. Rattles can fall off at anytime and for any reason, but the button will always be there. I "caught" a rattler last fall and the back half of its rattles just fell off for no other reason than its tail was swinging back and forth. It still had 6 rattles attached, not including the button. Here's a picture of it after 7 of its rattles fell off. You can see the button (it's white for some reason).
> 
> <img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507948/IMG_0595.jpg' width=710 height=477  >
> 
> And here's a baby rattler with only its button.



Sorry bud, but neither one of your pics show up for me


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## shaggybill (Nov 15, 2007)

Yeah, somethings up with the place thats hosts my pictures.

They have assured me they are working on it though.


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 15, 2007)

shaggybill said:


> Yeah, somethings up with the place thats hosts my pictures.
> 
> They have assured me they are working on it though.



Wasn't trying to offend you or nothing. The snake my husband killed was as big around as his leg. You can't tell it by looking at the pic so good. I did quite a bit of research on them after he killed that one to try and find out if there was a way to age them. All my research told me the same thing....that rattles fall off for any and every reason, not just when they shed. I wasn't arguing that fact. I just read in my research that if the buttonn is intact you can age it properly. If I was incorrect, then I learned something today, as I do everyday


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## shaggybill (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, I'll be durned. I've put the same picture up there twice. Here's what was supposed to be the first one. 







You can see that it only had 2 rattles left, not 6 like I said originally.

Anyways, glad I could help clear things up. Since any number of rattles can fall off for any reason, you can see why rattles aren't a good way to age them. Three out of 10 rattles may have fallen off 5 minutes before you see the snake and you'd never know.


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## GrlsHnt2 (Nov 15, 2007)

shaggybill said:


> Well, I'll be durned. I've put the same picture up there twice. Here's what was supposed to be the first one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Still no pic. Can you e-mail it to me?


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## FishFanatic (Nov 17, 2007)

GrlsHnt2 said:


> The snake my husband killed was as big around as his leg.



Is your husband really skinny?


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## bka317 (Nov 19, 2007)

Stealth Rattler????


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