# Not starting out so hot with my flintlock



## undertaker84 (Oct 20, 2011)

Lets begin with opening day of Muzzleloading. I missed a Coyote at 25 yards, I know, right? Well being discouraged i went back and practiced some more. I am comfortable free handing my rifle to about 30 yards and braced at about 80. Well, I went back hunting yesterday evening and it was very windy. I decided to get down early and was walking out, when I had a shot on a doe broadside at 20-30 yards. I felt comfortable with the shot and  told myself to follow through. I aimed and fired, and could not see for some time. I decided to wait a and sure enough blood. I aimed in the crease of the shoulder. Anyways, I spent last night and all day searching only to have my blood trail end. I have trailed many deer and am sure I did not miss anything. Relecutant, I brought in a dog and still nothing. I have some questions and would like some input. Please be honest as I will not get my feelings hurt. What can I expect with entry an exit wounds, (i know shot placement) I mean will there be complete pass through? What have been your average recovery lengths? How much is there a difference in .535 and .530 roundballs and .15 and.18 patches? Can a sabot be used in lieu of a roundball. I love my gun I have built, but if i cannot effectively kill an animal with it i will not use it to hunt. I am very new to muzzleloading. I am used to a compound bow and high power rifle. Sorry about how long this is.


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## undertaker84 (Oct 20, 2011)

I forgot to list .54 cal flintlock with a green mountain rifled barrel.


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## Nicodemus (Oct 20, 2011)

In my 50s I have only had one patched round ball not go completely through a deer because it lodged in the neck vertabrae. The rifle you have is very effectivley capable of killin` any big game in this country. It has in the past and will continue into the future. because of the smoke cloud, you might not be sure just exactly where the ball hit. And it is real easy to flinch a little with a flintlock. 

I would not give up on the rifle.


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## SASS249 (Oct 20, 2011)

What kinds of groups do you get on the range with the exact load that you used hunting?  How many rounds have you fired through this barrel?  

Difference between a .535 and a .530 roundball and .18.and .15 patching?  It depends.  Traditional muzzleloaders can be funny beasts.  I have one .50 that will hardly group with a .490 roundball but shoots great with a .495. 

Some barrels take a couple of hundred rounds through them to settle down and be completely consistent.

However, like Nic said, at that range you should get complete pass through.  

I don't know how much experience you have with flintlocks, but it really does take quite a bit of shooting for most people to be consistent and, particularly when hunting, to not get excited and flinch.

Don't give up.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 20, 2011)

As for the effectiveness of the PRB, it's very effective assuming that you're not shooting twenty grains of powder or something. As with any gun from a .22 to a .700 nitro, you still have to hit the deer in the vitals. I've lost deer with modern high-powered magnum rifles when I didn't hit where I was supposed to. If anything, after killing a pretty good pile of deer with muzzleloaders, I think they  do at least as good and maybe a better job of putting a deer down than a modern high-speed cartridge. Remember that these were the same guns that completely, totally exterminated buffalo and elk east of the Mississippi, and very nearly brought the whitetail deer and black bear to extinction here.


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## undertaker84 (Oct 20, 2011)

Guys, thanks for the confidence boost. I built this gun as a challenge and it surely is. I have a great respect and marvel at the pics of the ones taken with open sights, done old school. I have fired around 50 shots or so using 80grains. I can keep a fairly tight group being braced. Though, most shots where I hunt i cant always brace against something. I feel it would be best to not take these freehand shots and keep consistently following through without flinching. Call it guns shy or blast shy I still need practice on my follow through. I will not disappoint, as I have vowed only to use my flintlock or bow all season.


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## Gordief (Oct 20, 2011)

may be better not to which back & forth between ML & bow.

remember the old saying... " beware of the man with one gun,
he probably knows how to use it."


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## Big7 (Oct 20, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> In my 50s I have only had one patched round ball not go completely through a deer because it lodged in the neck vertabrae. The rifle you have is very effectivley capable of killin` any big game in this country. It has in the past and will continue into the future. because of the smoke cloud, you might not be sure just exactly where the ball hit. And it is real easy to flinch a little with a flintlock.
> 
> I would not give up on the rifle.




I would. (for game, for now)

Get an in line and shoot as good n far as you would with a sabot, in a rifled shotgun.

I know I'm not a "purest" in the literal sense of the word.

I DO think a flint lock would be fun to shoot paper.

Buddy of mine (deceased) had one he built himself from a kit.
I is a beautiful gun, (widow still has it) I shot it a few times.

The delay and the smoke is not for me. It's like... pull trigger, wait for pan flash... THEN wait for boom.

A lot can happen in those few milliseconds.

Nic will prolly tell you different. He's an expert on primitive weapons. 
I'm not. You're not. If you feel the need... practice, practice, practice some more.

My 2


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 20, 2011)

Big7 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I would. (for game, for now)
> 
> ...



I totally disagree. Instant gratification is not always the most satisfying thing in the long run. If that's all that matters, why not just use a centerfire to begin with. There is a learning curve with traditional blackpowder, just like there is with traditional archery, fly fishing, or anything else worth doing that will eventually bring you a lot bigger sense of personal satisfaction than doing the easiest, pre-packaged solution. I think the OP is at that point where he is looking for a bit more from his hunting than using off-the-shelf weapons in an off-the-shelf hunting style.


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## SASS249 (Oct 20, 2011)

About the only part of Big 7's post I agree with is:  practice, practice, practice some more.

Flintlocks take more than 50 rounds to get comfortable with them.  When you say "I can keep a fairly tight group being braced" exactly what do you mean?  







The picture above is the standard National Muzzleloading Rifle Association target.  The black measures 3" across. The 10 ring is .75 inches across.  This target is shot at 25 and 50 yards.  One round per target with the upper left target used for sighter shots.  I post this just to give you a reference on what level of accuracy you should get.

In most regional and many local matches you pretty much have to shoot a 50 with several x's on the 25 yard and high 40's on the 50 yard to have any chance of winning.

These rifles are capable of fine accuracy but do take practice.  You have to find the load that works in YOUR rifle.  You have to practice loading the SAME WAY every time. 

Sounds like a lot of work doesn't it?  Well it is, but after all that is the point.  If it was easy everybody would do it.

By the way:  A well tuned flintlock should fire so fast that you can not really tell any lag between squeezing the trigger and the shot going off.  

You are well on your way so again don't give up.


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## undertaker84 (Oct 20, 2011)

Big7, I appreciate your comment. I chose to handbuild this rifle except the barrell. By doing so I plan to use it, I just like a challenge.


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## undertaker84 (Oct 20, 2011)

Sass, where can I purchase some of those targets. And do any of you have a preferred purchaser for you Balls/Powder/Etc...


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## SASS249 (Oct 20, 2011)

http://www.nmlra.org/store.asp?CatID=5

for official targets

Dixie gunworks has "non-official" versions for less money.
Me,  I just paint a 3" circle on paper plates.

I cast my own balls and generally buy powder in bulk.


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## Big7 (Oct 20, 2011)

NCHillbilly said:


> I totally disagree. Instant gratification is not always the most satisfying thing in the long run. If that's all that matters, why not just use a centerfire to begin with. There is a learning curve with traditional blackpowder, just like there is with traditional archery, fly fishing, or anything else worth doing that will eventually bring you a lot bigger sense of personal satisfaction than doing the easiest, pre-packaged solution. I think the OP is at that point where he is looking for a bit more from his hunting than using off-the-shelf weapons in an off-the-shelf hunting style.



Well.. We agree to disagree then.

I had no intention of "knocking" anyone.

I would not take a shot at ANY animal unless I was 
pretty sure I could make a clean kill.

OP stated He couldn't hit with HIS particular flintlock. 20 - 30 yards??

I, in a round about way suggested he get with Nic (as he is our resident expert on prim. weapons) and get comfortable before shooting at game or non-game.

That's all I was saying.

I have some high-end wrist rockets that I can and do kill rabbits and squirrels with. Like I said in previous post, shoot paper, till you can make the shot!

Peeps can and do Knapp arrowheads and throw axes..

I can't. 

From the OP he shouldn't be shooting the flintlock on nothing but paper for now.

Maybe something is wrong with the gun?? Not him.

My take was he should get an in-line to hunt with.

My 2


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## SgtPat (Oct 21, 2011)

undertaker84 said:


> Lets begin with opening day of Muzzleloading. I missed a Coyote at 25 yards, I know, right? Well being discouraged i went back and practiced some more. I am comfortable free handing my rifle to about 30 yards and braced at about 80. Well, I went back hunting yesterday evening and it was very windy. I decided to get down early and was walking out, when I had a shot on a doe broadside at 20-30 yards. I felt comfortable with the shot and  told myself to follow through. I aimed and fired, and could not see for some time. I decided to wait a and sure enough blood. I aimed in the crease of the shoulder. Anyways, I spent last night and all day searching only to have my blood trail end. I have trailed many deer and am sure I did not miss anything. Relecutant, I brought in a dog and still nothing. I have some questions and would like some input. Please be honest as I will not get my feelings hurt. What can I expect with entry an exit wounds, (i know shot placement) I mean will there be complete pass through? What have been your average recovery lengths? How much is there a difference in .535 and .530 roundballs and .15 and.18 patches? Can a sabot be used in lieu of a roundball. I love my gun I have built, but if i cannot effectively kill an animal with it i will not use it to hunt. I am very new to muzzleloading. I am used to a compound bow and high power rifle. Sorry about how long this is.



I shoot in a club called Blue Ridge Mountain Men in Baldwin, GA.  Our next shoot will be Dec 10.  You can get alot good advice, shooting tips, and answers to all of your questions from a friendly bunch of flintlock and percussion shooters.


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## dawg2 (Oct 21, 2011)

SASS249 said:


> ....practice, practice, practice some more.
> 
> Flintlocks take more than 50 rounds to get comfortable with them.  ...
> 
> ...



I agree on the practice part.  The pan in your face takes some getting used to and takes lots of practice.

Also, if you have good flint and a good 4F powder (I use Swiss) there should not be a huge delay in ignition time. But you need to practice as much as you can.


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## SgtPat (Oct 21, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> I agree on the practice part.  The pan in your face takes some getting used to and takes lots of practice.
> 
> Also, if you have good flint and a good 4F powder (I use Swiss) there should not be a huge delay in ignition time. But you need to practice as much as you can.



I use Swiss null-B, it is finer than 4F.


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## White Horse (Oct 21, 2011)

*Much good advice...*

...on here so far. Here's what I would do if I were you.

I would plot out some time to practice with my rifle, with shooting bag, horn, and measure set up exactly like I planned to use them in the field. I would load from the bag, step by step, taking great pains to do each shot exactly the same way. Don't worry too much about accuracy on this first practice session.

Before I even did that though I would cut the load down. You said you are loading 80 grains, and if I recall correctly you didn't say what powder granulation you are using. I would suggest a starting load in a .54 of 60 grains of FFG powder, and less of FFF. 80 grains would be a stiff load, and that may be part of your problem. I know you read of those who load 200 grains, and you may have seen some guys load straight from a can or horn without measuring, but those are not good ideas. Using too much powder affects accuracy, and even if it doesn't produce excessive pressure, which it can, it wastes powder. 

After a practice session of loading just like you will be doing in the field, I would practice for accuracy on paper, still strictly loading from the bag, until I could consistently hit the 3 inch black ring at 50 yards. You may find that your rifle groups better, as has been said here, with a certain patch, ball, and load combination. Once you find that combination, use it every time.

You'll be ready to hunt after that, but I can tell you from experience you'll still be learning after 40 years, like I am.

Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck with big bucks.


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## Nugefan (Oct 21, 2011)

are you using FFFF in your flashpan????

and what powder are you using down the barrel ???

when I prime my pan I close the frizzen and bump the side of the gun with my hand to make sure powder is on touch hole .. just a few tips ..

don't give up on the gun , nothing like killin' a critter with something you built yourself ..


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## majg1234 (Nov 3, 2011)

lots of good advice on here....I've been shooting BP for years (30+) 5-6 years ago went to an inline,don't really know why now!!!! last year started rockbashing and it has been the most fun and fullfilling thing I've ever undertaken,To begin with when loaded correctly,and well tuned a flinter will be as fast to ignite as a capper....my two are almost as fast as my Omega.They can be as accurate as any thing else you will shoot with iron sites and they WILL kill dear. My 40cal took a big fat doe last year DRT @about 50yrd.Don't give up on it practice practice and more practice.It does take some effort to get there but half the fun is the journey.The guys in my dear camp laughed last year when I drug "ole smokey" out (they all had inlines) they didn't laugh when I made meat though.This year it'll be my Carolina smooth bore,she "maureen" has gotten several tree bacon late season last year,this year is her year to bring home venison.Don't let anyone tell you a smoothy won't shoot she turns in a 2-3" group @ 50yds patched RB and no front site


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## Nicodemus (Nov 3, 2011)

majg1234 said:


> lots of good advice on here....I've been shooting BP for years (30+) 5-6 years ago went to an inline,don't really know why now!!!! last year started rockbashing and it has been the most fun and fullfilling thing I've ever undertaken,To begin with when loaded correctly,and well tuned a flinter will be as fast to ignite as a capper....my two are almost as fast as my Omega.They can be as accurate as any thing else you will shoot with iron sites and they WILL kill dear. My 40cal took a big fat doe last year DRT @about 50yrd.Don't give up on it practice practice and more practice.It does take some effort to get there but half the fun is the journey.The guys in my dear camp laughed last year when I drug "ole smokey" out (they all had inlines) they didn't laugh when I made meat though.This year it'll be my Carolina smooth bore,she "maureen" has gotten several tree bacon late season last year,this year is her year to bring home venison.Don't let anyone tell you a smoothy won't shoot she turns in a 2-3" group @ 50yds patched RB and no front site





Intorduce us to Miz Maureen and post up a pic for us. She sounds like a fine Lady, and any weapon that has earned a name automatically earns respect. Good luck with her.


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## Flintrock (Nov 4, 2011)

Sounds like buck fever with a lot of not being comfortable with your rifle. When you pull the trigger you should be able to call the shot without looking.When you get to this point,Then you are ready. Practice.


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## Supercracker (Nov 4, 2011)

practice.....a LOT.    Then practice some more.


Then, when you get a chance, practice a bit. 

By the mere fact that you took the time to build and use a flintlock to hunt with you've indicated that you're hunting, not going on a shopping trip in the woods. So, I imagine, the experience is the most important aspect of the hunt. Don't give up on it. Just get good with it.


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