# Singularity and the human mind



## drippin' rock (May 20, 2013)

In the not so distant future, we will understand the human brain.  We will have figured out how we organically process information and will have the technology to replicate the brain.  Singularity is the term coined to describe the moment in time when machines achieve intelligence.  I think the ability to download a person's memories, thoughts, and consciousness will be possible as well.

My question is this.  When a person is downloaded into a machine, will they still have a soul?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=e-zimmer-can-you-live-forever


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## mtnwoman (May 21, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> In the not so distant future, we will understand the human brain.



Gee that took a long time to accomplish. Considering the brain was put together umpteen thousand years ago, and just so happens it was put together, therefore it can be taken apart and examined.


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## jmharris23 (May 21, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> In the not so distant future, we will understand the human brain.  We will have figured out how we organically process information and will have the technology to replicate the brain.  Singularity is the term coined to describe the moment in time when machines achieve intelligence.  I think the ability to download a person's memories, thoughts, and consciousness will be possible as well.
> 
> My question is this.  When a person is downloaded into a machine, will they still have a soul?
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=e-zimmer-can-you-live-forever




My answer is this: People who believe the things you stated above and what was found in the article have no need to be concerned with whether or not we have a soul. 

I say this because I don't believe that those who believe such things, would not typically believe in a soul?


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## stringmusic (May 21, 2013)

Great article....
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,137690,00.html

Quote from David Gelernter


> How can an object that wants nothing, fears nothing, enjoys nothing, needs nothing and cares about nothing have a mind?


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## JB0704 (May 21, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> My question is this.  When a person is downloaded into a machine, will they still have a soul?





Do they still exist outside the machine?


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## hunter rich (May 21, 2013)

jmharris23 said:


> My answer is this: People who believe the things you stated above and what was found in the article have no need to be concerned with whether or not we have a soul.
> 
> I say this because I don't believe that those who believe such things, would not typically believe in a soul?



That is a non answer. Why is it nobody wants to answer this? If anybody does answer yes or no, then please if you would be so kind, give an explanation to support your answer.


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## hunter rich (May 21, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> Do they still exist outside the machine?



How is this pertinent to the question?  Are you saying that if the body is no longer a functioning vessel than the soul is gone?


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## stringmusic (May 21, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> That is a non answer. Why is it nobody wants to answer this? If anybody does answer yes or no, then please if you would be so kind, give an explanation to support your answer.



It's a leading question. The assumption is made in the question that it is possible to "download" a person into a machine, which is impossible.


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## littlewolf (May 21, 2013)

What I want to know is if we will be able to upload a previous version of our brain. You know...the one before all the weaker brain cells were weeded out.   

But to answer your question, yes, of course the person would retain their soul. Why would the person lose their soul just because some information was downloaded?


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## hunter rich (May 21, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> It's a leading question. The assumption is made in the question that it is possible to "download" a person into a machine, which is impossible.



Impossible?  how many times in the past has that been said?  What do you think someone from the 1500s would say about airplanes?  Satellites? People watching Star Trek would have thought that "communicators" where impossible but look at what we carry on our belts or in purses and pockets...Splitting an atom could be used to flatten cities and kill millions of people?  HAHAHA that's impossible...


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## Four (May 21, 2013)

Eh... i think the use of soul is a bad term to use...

It is an interesting like of questioning though.

1. At what point is an entity not a human.. if the entire body is mechanical, except the brain, is it still human? What if just the brain is mechanical (so computer brain, human body) so long as the computer brain has the same emotions / experiences?

2. What does it mean to be an individual... If you download a person onto a computer, and it's sentient and reacts the same ways, is it the same person? is it a person at all?

good stuff.


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## Four (May 21, 2013)

Also.. are you the same person you were last year? what about last week? What identifies us besides the collection of experiences...


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## jmharris23 (May 21, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> That is a non answer. Why is it nobody wants to answer this? If anybody does answer yes or no, then please if you would be so kind, give an explanation to support your answer.



It was an answer. Maybe not one that sufficed you, but it was an answer. 

But if you want a more definitive one then ok....the soul is a spiritual thing and cannot be removed from a person by technical means, so yes if a machine sucks all the memory out of your brain, you will still have a soul. 


Is that a better answer?


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## JB0704 (May 21, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> How is this pertinent to the question?



He asks if the person has a soul once downloaded.  I would think whether the person still exists outside of the download is pertinent to knowing whether or not the soul still exists.  Has his everything been taken and transferred, or just his thoughts, memories, etc duplicated.....



hunter rich said:


> Are you saying that if the body is no longer a functioning vessel than the soul is gone?



No.


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## hunter rich (May 21, 2013)

Can always count on Four to step it up a notch...


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## drippin' rock (May 21, 2013)

What I am assuming in this possible future, is a complete transfer to machine.  Say you are dying and this is a way to keep going.  Your body is gone, but you are still conscious in a computer.  Of course it is not possible now, but there are and will be people trying until it is possible.

I graduated college in 1994.  I received a PC as a gift.  It had 4MB of storage on it and was a $1500.00 item.  Fast forward to present, just 19 years later, and we are already in the terabit range.  


Here is another question.  Is it wrong for mankind to pursue such an endeavor?


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## Four (May 21, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> What I am assuming in this possible future, is a complete transfer to machine.  Say you are dying and this is a way to keep going.  Your body is gone, but you are still conscious in a computer.  Of course it is not possible now, but there are and will be people trying until it is possible.
> 
> I graduated college in 1994.  I received a PC as a gift.  It had 4MB of storage on it and was a $1500.00 item.  Fast forward to present, just 19 years later, and we are already in the terabit range.
> 
> ...



Definitely NOT wrong.

Personally, I hope this progresses quickly in my life time, i'd love to have my life extended significantly due to this type of technology.

I'm still hoping i can live forever.


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## ambush80 (May 21, 2013)

Four said:


> Definitely NOT wrong.
> 
> Personally, I hope this progresses quickly in my life time, i'd love to have my life extended significantly due to this type of technology.
> 
> I'm still hoping i can live forever.



With a jetpack and a ray gun.


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## Four (May 21, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> With a jetpack and a ray gun.



heck, i still think its a toss up whether we're going to reach immortality through robotics / computers... or biology..

Maybe both, but one has to come first.

Do we find out how to re-grow brains first? or replace them?

cant wait!


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## hunter rich (May 21, 2013)

Will immortality be allowed and if so who decides who gets to utilize it?

If everyone can have it the planet will soon be overcrowded and then what?

If we can transfer consciousness into a mechanical or robotic form (i.e. Cyborg) then we could be utilized off planet like colonizing Mars or Europa...Or a New Earth...

Actually when I was a kid reading my dads sci fi books and magazines I thought we would be much farther advanced than we are....

Thanks Four, you da man!


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## drippin' rock (May 21, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> Will immortality be allowed and if so who decides who gets to utilize it?
> 
> If everyone can have it the planet will soon be overcrowded and then what?
> 
> ...



My guess is the wealthy will have the most access to any form of longevity we discover.  It won't be available to everyone.


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## drippin' rock (May 21, 2013)

I think it is amazing how we go about creating what the science fiction writers of yester year imagined.  Personally I am waiting for the light saber.


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## hummdaddy (May 21, 2013)

to be human i feel you have to have a heart,a brain , lungs,digestive system and everything  that connects these parts.... it's not necessary to have eyes ,ears,legs,and arms,but the rest to be living human...

i think you will just be downloading memory


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## Four (May 22, 2013)

hummdaddy said:


> to be human i feel you have to have a heart,a brain , lungs,digestive system and everything  that connects these parts.... it's not necessary to have eyes ,ears,legs,and arms,but the rest to be living human...
> 
> i think you will just be downloading memory



So to be a human we require a torso and a head? What is the job of the lungs, stomach, etc but to fuel and maintain the other parts?

Do we require ALL of those parts to be human? What of somebody that has to be on a breathing machine, no lungs.. but still has a stomach, etc?


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## Four (May 22, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> Will immortality be allowed and if so who decides who gets to utilize it?
> 
> If everyone can have it the planet will soon be overcrowded and then what?
> 
> ...



I assume the market will handle it.. like you said, mechanics can live off planet, and i'm sure non-organics would be able to if we terraform a few planets. It's a huge universe out there. If there is a will, there is a way.


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## JB0704 (May 22, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> With a jetpack and a ray gun.



You can have that stuff.....I want "the force."


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## hummdaddy (May 22, 2013)

four said:


> so to be a human we require a torso and a head? What is the job of the lungs, stomach, etc but to fuel and maintain the other parts?
> 
> Do we require all of those parts to be human? What of somebody that has to be on a breathing machine, no lungs.. But still has a stomach, etc?



breathing machine is making the lungs work...IF WE DIDN'T HAVE LUNGS WE COULD BE FISH,OR SOMETHING ELSE,ECT.,ECT.i know the brain is what separates us from the apes,but we needthe other stuff to be a living spirit too i think...


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## Four (May 22, 2013)

hummdaddy said:


> breathing machine is making the lungs work



So if the machine worked without lungs?


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## Russdaddy (May 22, 2013)

hunter rich said:


> Will immortality be allowed and if so who decides who gets to utilize it?
> 
> OBAMA...of course


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## hunter rich (May 22, 2013)

Russdaddy said:


> OBAMA...of course



by this time it will be some other social libtard leftwing - d-bag...


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