# i'm bummed we can't talk - (sad face)



## GRIV

"The thread" raged on while I was away twisting D-loops and teaching people to fling arrows. I got a phone call or two from concerned archers who couldn't believe what they were reading. 

I have no idea why things like this can't be discussed without  everyone trying to get their dig in. In dealing with archery at all levels over the last several years it's obvious why we can't raise our sport to the level of other widely recognized sports like golf.  

"I have met the enemy; he is us." ~pogo

I'm persistent though. Let's just keep moving forward.


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## bowsmith

I make one little reference to "589", and the thread gets killed.    Guess there are still some hard feelings there.


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## Nicodemus

Ya`ll keep this one civil, or it will go away, and infractions issued.


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## GRIV

Always civil, always. I promise. 

Usually I am just trying to stay on my point. Things like population density of archers and the business of growing participation... You know.. The important stuff.

But that is mostly lost in the static and i end up referred to as an unpatriotic money hoarding talban who won't travel and can't manage a shoot. 

I'm just sayin'


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## bowsmith

GRIV said:


> Always civil, always. I promise.
> 
> Usually I am just trying to stay on my point. Things like population density of archers and the business of growing participation... You know.. The important stuff.
> 
> But that is mostly lost in the static and i end up referred to as an unpatriotic money hoarding talban who won't travel and can't manage a shoot.
> 
> I'm just sayin'



Well, at least you're admitting your faults.


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## Miss Ginger

GRIV said:


> Always civil, always. I promise.
> 
> i end up referred to as an unpatriotic money hoarding talban who won't travel and can't manage a shoot.
> 
> I'm just sayin'



Well, straighten up, ya no good do-er!    JUST KIDDIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously now,

Everybody is certainly entitled to an opinion. _Whatever!!!!;_
We might do better if we try to keep in the front of our minds that;
In the end, we are all of the same family. Really dedicated lovers of the sport of archery.

This common bond of the passion for our sport will be there with us all for always, we might try channeling our focus on how to work together to insure that we have a long future in archery.

All groups of people with common interests go back and forth with negatives and positives, nature of groups. Everyone wants their needs to be attended to. We might get more done if we focus more on working for the good of the group, not so much about the individual.

Please don't bite my head off... Like everyone else that has an interest in this thread, I have an opinion. Good or bad... up to the reader, feel free to judge for yourself, non the less, We are all still entitled to our opinions.


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## GRIV

Group Hug!!!  and here's some pretty music to go with it. 

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=340283


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## oldgeez

i'm bummed, too.  kp called and told me, it was hitting the fan; but i was busy in the garage working and missed it all, darn!! oh, well, let me check facebook.  no moderators over there, lol.


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## ScarletArrows

Lord knows I can stir a pot....especially when I get irritated. No disrespect was intended and I have taken my discussion back to the source. GON is protecting their interests here whatever they may be. I personally am done with this forum for this discussion. Two deleted Threads in one day is enough.


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## oldgeez

that's gotta be a record, lol


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## alligood729

I would love to get involved in more than just the 3D and the ASA I do, but at this point, between raising a family and work that's about all I have time for. Hopefully in the next yr or so, when they are all out of school, that can happen. I love to shoot just to shoot!


And 589 is still a sissy.....


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## GRIV

Alligood - We are going to drag you out one way or another.


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## bowsmith

alligood729 said:


> And 589 is still a sissy.....



Picking on a man who isn't able to defend himself.  *tsk tsk*  It's one thing to throw a few jabs at those who can defend themselves, but that's just poor character.  You should be ashamed.


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## Monster02

join GAA we don't have these problems!!!!! lol!!!


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## oldgeez

who the heck is 589..that was before my gon time, obviously.  why can't he defend himself??  has he been banned???


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## alligood729

GRIV said:


> Alligood - We are going to drag you out one way or another.


You just might at that!


bowsmith said:


> Picking on a man who isn't able to defend himself.  *tsk tsk*  It's one thing to throw a few jabs at those who can defend themselves, but that's just poor character.  You should be ashamed.



 Poor defenseless fellow...


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## oldgeez

i guess he will always be, as my daughter says about the dos equus man, a man of mystery, lol


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## ScarletArrows

Monster02 said:


> join GAA we don't have these problems!!!!! lol!!!



Heck that means I have to drive to Atlanta...why can't they hold their shoots in Savannah.


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## GRIV

Monster02 said:


> join GAA we don't have these problems!!!!! lol!!!



 All archery clubs have those problems

The only different is some clubs get stuff done and some stay the same.


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## Dingo26

set up the tournaments in Perry at the Ag center and MOST everyone has to travel to get there.  center of the shooting world as far as Ga goes. no matter where you have it some travel less than others, gonna happen no matter what you do.  If you want to shoot you will go if you don't you will always find a reason to stay home or go somewhere else... I hope to shoot more next season, but who knows what will happen, but the distance I travel has nothing to do with me shooting one place over another.. I am working on getting some of the sticks out of the fire and then I'll be able to juggle couple sticks and the shoots....


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## GRIV

For me, it's not really about who has to travel. It's more along the lines of growing the shoots and bringing more people into competitive archery. If GA has 100,000 bowhunters and 70% of them are above Macon, it makes sense to strive to work with the clubs in that area closely. NFAA style archery has been stagnant for years and the north GA clubs are percolating new archers all the time. 

The question is, are we happy with GA NFAA Archery as we know it? 

Are the tournaments big enough? 

Are we content with our effort to fulfill the mission outlined in the GBAA bylaws? 

Do we need to do anything for the GBAA or continue along business as usuall? 

There are other clubs and other archery organizations that are moving forward and working to promote and grow the sport and they are not shooting NFAA style events. I worry that if the GBAA continues along as it is, it will dwindle to nothing and field archery, blue face, and international round will become a husk in the wind with it. 

Are we ok with that?


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## PAUL J

Now george, you're showing your barbaric zeal !


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## restrada

Well said George.


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## firefighter310

Griv you are a nfaa person and you are gonna talk like that on a public forum about nfaa tournaments and the clubs going by their rules! If clubs up in that area want the shoots then they need to bid on them. You know how things are ran under the constitution and bylaws. You are making it seem like the board of directors are not doing their jobs. Which in my opinion is bull!


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## watermedic

You started it remember that!!

Follow the rules Griv. Dont slam the GBAA because people didnt show up to put a bid in and now want to complain. The rules were followed so quit crying you big baby. I thought you just turned 40. Act like it!

For that matter, if a club would have called, emailed or whatever one of the club officers and wanted to hold a shoot, we would have gladly put them in for it. 

We held the state field in the metro Atlanta area this year. You didnt show up. Only a small handfull of shooters from your area showed up at all. The majority were from Augusta and south.

So where was all of the participation?? 

When the current board took over, we had nothing in the bank and had lost most of the memberships in Georgia. The last 4 years we have been at the top of the list for states growing in memberships. We also have funds in the GBAA account.


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## oldgeez

well, i don't know about others, but to me, it is about the travel.  traveling costs a lot of money, even when  you carpool when you live on a fixed income.  gas prices are through the roof and motel cost, as they say in new york, forget about it!!  the last field shoot i went to in savannah, i slept in the back of the caca van.  that's just me, the recession guy:   now, for the good stuff..it sounds like to me, that the gbaa'ers are being very flexible in this situation.  we will probably get the target shoot per ricky d and patrick r. (or maybe franklin county), and there's rumblings about the spring turkey, if somebody will step up and isn't griv negotiating for the indoor??  it looks very promising to me, and i think everybody is learning how to play nice.


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## red1691

And brought back the State Champion Belt Buckle and the State Patch, all with the Work of GBAA Clubs, and GBAA Members, Not just the Officers!

So these "other clubs and Archery organizations that are moving forward and working to promote and grow the sport" or There Shoots, "and not shooting NFAA style events!" What style of events would that be?

I thought when one promotes the Sport of Archery, They promote all Types of Archery, and to help others to better there skills in the type of event one chooses to take there skills.


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## ScarletArrows

watermedic said:


> You started it remember that!!
> 
> Follow the rules Griv. Dont slam the GBAA because people didnt show up to put a bid in and now want to complain. The rules were followed so quit crying you big baby. I thought you just turned 40. Act like it!
> 
> For that matter, if a club would have called, emailed or whatever one of the club officers and wanted to hold a shoot, we would have gladly put them in for it.
> 
> We held the state field in the metro Atlanta area this year. You didnt show up. Only a small handfull of shooters from your area showed up at all. The majority were from Augusta and south.
> 
> So where was all of the participation??
> 
> When the current board took over, we had nothing in the bank and had lost most of the memberships in Georgia. The last 4 years we have been at the top of the list for states growing in memberships. We also have funds in the GBAA account.


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## GRIV

firefighter310 said:


> Griv you are a nfaa person and you are gonna talk like that on a public forum about nfaa tournaments and the clubs going by their rules! If clubs up in that area want the shoots then they need to bid on them. You know how things are ran under the constitution and bylaws. You are making it seem like the board of directors are not doing their jobs. Which in my opinion is bull!




First of all - It's obvious you guys are mis-reading my tone. I am trying to help not bash. I was specific with my words trying to allay any idea that i was bashing. My aim is to open a conversation about the future of NFAA rounds, their use, and how to grow archery in Georgia. 

I am an NFAA man and I stand by every word I said in my previous post. The 5 spot round is flagging. Field archery is hanging on by a thread. I am not sure what can be done for field archery because of the lack of ranges and people to keep them up, but the 5 spot round can be saved. 

Can you name one other major tournament anywhere using the 5 spot other than the state and sectional championship? Well... Other than the others I will hold this year. The round just isn't used anymore. 

I AM NOT IMPLYING that the state officers are not doing their jobs. I don't imply anything. I just go ahead and say it. I raised those questions to make us think about where we want to go from here. The current office of the GBAA saved the organization and the NFAA in Georgia from an early grave and I am thankful for that. My questions are asking is it time we do more? if so what could we do? 

Yes there were no bids for any other shoots other than the state indoor. I know there is a new club out there who didn't know what or when the process was to bid on a shoot. Rodney Estrada from **Franklin** County archery has been working with the State organization trying to get ranges approved and trying to initiate the process to become a Georgia state club. He didn't realize that all he had to do was fill out a form and pay a fee. This one example that I know of is an opportunity to grow the sport and add another club to the roster that would put in bids. There needs to be a mechanism in place to help foster growth by hand holding new clubs into existence.

Another example of hand holding would be to shop other clubs before the time to bid. Maybe call a club and say, "we have this list of shoots; do you want to host any of them? " Typically when the national organization wants to have a successful shoot they choose an area with the best chances of success. Then they call the State organization in that area and open a dialog to see if the state or local organization is amenable to hosting or spearheading the shoot. Then once a deal is made the National office takes care of the promotion, registrants, and the clerical work of the shoot once the event starts. Usually the local organization is the work force of the shoot and the directors and councilmen are the referees, shoot officials and range masters. They pretty much handle everything right down to trucking in the butts and setting the place up. 

I have read the bylaws and fully understand them.


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## dawg2

GRIV said:


> First of all - It's obvious you guys are mis-reading my tone. I am trying to help not bash. ..



Well let's make sure no one misreads ANY persons' tone on here.


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## watermedic

GRIV said:


> Can you name one other major tournament anywhere using the 5 spot other than the state and sectional championship? Well... Other than the others I will hold this year. The round just isn't used anymore.



Louisville doesn't count as a major tournament??


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## GRIV

watermedic said:


> You started it remember that!!



I started a discussion not a fight. You obviously have misplaced the voice in which I wrote the above post. I am not crying, whining, or even arguing about wanting the state indoor this year. Tom says that Fort Gordon actually wants the shoot and didn't just bid because they thought it had to move every year. I have offered my help with the state to Tom and will do what I can to bring the fun stuff like the music, video timer and such to Fort Gordon if they want it. I'll even read the awards you guys seemed to be pleased with how that went. I intend to help not bash. Read a smile into what I write. I'm not in this to spear anyone or jabber uselessly on the internet. I have plenty to do and wouldn't bother with it if I didn't think it was necessary. 



watermedic said:


> Follow the rules Griv. Dont slam the GBAA because people didnt show up to put a bid in and now want to complain. The rules were followed so quit crying you big baby. I thought you just turned 40. Act like it!



Yep I just turned forty or to be accurate, Tuesday is the actual day. As I said above, This isn't a slam thread. I don't do slam threads and it's a waste of time. I am not trying to get around any rules I am trying to open a dialog about the future of NFAA style archery in Georgia. I know you can't possibly think that everything is totally fine and there is no need for any new direction. The simple fact that clubs aren't fighting over bids and banging your door down to host the next shoot is evidence enough that some attention needs to be paid to the issue. 



watermedic said:


> For that matter, if a club would have called, emailed or whatever one of the club officers and wanted to hold a shoot, we would have gladly put them in for it.



I know you guys would do everything you could do for a club that called you and wanted in on a shoot. You guys did that for me. I called Tom when I got the doors open on the shop and told him I wanted the state. He went through the trouble of coming into the store and having a look around and talking with me about what we needed to do to host the shoot. 

Y'all need to talk to Rodney Estrada - i'll PM his number he has a club about an hour and a half from me and says he has been trying to do what he has to do to become a state club and bid on some shoots. He needs help making that happen. He has acreage and targets sitting and ready for field archery, 900, american, international, whatever. 



watermedic said:


> We held the state field in the metro Atlanta area this year. You didnt show up. Only a small handfull of shooters from your area showed up at all. The majority were from Augusta and south.
> 
> So where was all of the participation??



I became sick a couple days before the state field. I was all set to go, had told Bill I was bringing some kids and at the last minute had to cancel because I was sick. Couldn't help that. I didn't show to the turkey, and the 3D because I am not really a 3D shooter. If my club was hosting I'd be there just to help administrate, but rubber deer doesn't interest me right now. Maybe later. My shop is new and I was the only one in there turning D-loops and servicing customers. It was tough to leave for any amount of time unless I absolutely had to. Now I have an employee rockstar to help with the store and as I grow I'll have more. Until then I'll have to pick and choose where I can be. Got to feed the family first. 

To answer your question about where is the participation. I think that question is bigger than you and me. I think the answer lies in the problem with Field Archery in general. The fact that it is an installation type range that can't easily be set up and taken down. With no ranges and no where to practice many people never try field and don't even know what it is. I was around when 3D swallowed up all the field clubs and some of the biggest and most beautiful permanent ranges were dismantled to set up space to host 3D shoots. 3D was the darling of the archery world here in GA in the early 80s and it only took about 8 years to wipe out the biggest clubs. Once large target clubs became 3D clubs and the "us against them" struggle started. The NFAA and the state organizations started hosting a 3D event or two out of self defense. Also it made a great lure to bring those new 3D shooters over to target as they tried for "all events champion". Also just the sheer availability of space for field ranges are at a premium. My own club that I grew up in fell victim to urban sprawl. The old Gwinnett Field range is just a bowshot from where my shop is right now and it's a huge five lane highway that services a hundred thousand cars a day. Gwinnett was squeezed out of existence by sprawl and the old guys that were doing all the work just got tired of moving it. Down goes another field club. 

I dream of having a full archery training center with a FITA Lawn, a full Field Range, FITA Field, and 3D set up all the time so National teams, Local Customers, and international shooters can come in and shoot on. One day that may happen, until then we have to use what we can get. 



watermedic said:


> When the current board took over, we had nothing in the bank and had lost most of the memberships in Georgia. The last 4 years we have been at the top of the list for states growing in memberships. We also have funds in the GBAA account.



I don't dispute that you guys saved the organization from the dust and it's hard to say "let's grow" or "let's do more" without sounding critical to you guys. That is not my intention. The questions I posted above were specifically set to generate "what if we..." kind of ideas that we could use to grow. Please don't take my questions as sarcasm or a jab at you guys. I would hope we could just talk out loud and foster a useful discussion about growth. 

There's no good answer about where to put a shoot, and there's no way to please everyone unless the shoot was in the middle of the state and everyone had to buy a hotel room. I hoped to step over the where to put the indoor discussion from the last thread because no matter what you do or where you go, you will leave someone out. My only point there is, If you are screwed either way, you might as well have the best chance at growing the shoot and hooking as many archers as you can. 

I propose that whatever officer is in charge of accepting bids take a second and call the reps from the different clubs before we begin selecting bids and chat with them about what is available and how they can get involved. If you are a club rep and are reading this PM watermedic with your contact info. And if no interest comes out of that and there are no bids then, I guess it's a done deal and it can't be fixed. However, I am pretty confident that it won't be a waste of breath.


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## GRIV

watermedic said:


> Louisville doesn't count as a major tournament??



in the south east was what I meant to add. Currently the only time I looked at a five spot was when I was standing in Louisville. Now that I don't travel to 30 shoots a year globally. I intend to shoot a little more than one round a year on a five spot. 

I'll start by hosting one every tuesday night until march at archery learning center.


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## restrada

George,

Dang it George, now my name is in the hat so an opinion I must give.  First, I represent Franklin County, not Forsyth.  I found out how to bid after nearly a year of asking.  Frankly, I gave up and started hosting NAA shoots.   Since all this heat came up over this August-Savannah monopoly, I have gotten a couple of emails from GBAA leadership and would be glad to host a shoot.  However, I am not in this to play games or be played.  If folks want to shoot, we'll put ya'll on a good un.  Bring your bows and check your personal agendas at the door.  

BTW, I hail from the foothills of the Mountains.  I have to drive a minimum of 2 or more hours to anybody for a shoot including George's place.  I support the various shoots with my teams efforts based on what kind of competition the shoot can provide and, yes, location.  It is hard to justify my team's travels to a shoot guaranteed to bring 20 people.  Hate to put it that way, but that is the cold hard economic fact of the matter.

I am not as entrenched in this as some of you Georgia Giants of the sport, so you guys duke it out while us little clubs watch and wait to pick up the pieces left in the destructive infighting you all seem to cherish.  As far as the bylaws determining this and that; what happened to good old common sense?  Citing "the rules dictate"  is the most common form of fear of change I can see in institutional growth.

The ad hominem attacks of profiteering and questioning expenditures for a shoot and the other crap brought up exclusively in one side of this debate is evidence of this fear of change.  

As far as format of any shoot...eh.....you got targets, we'll shoot at em.  It is not the target's fault that what is on the shooting line is what is screwing up this sport.

Let the hyperbole begin!

r.


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## GRIV

now for the what if we... 

What if we held a State Vegas round? It would be another indoor shoot that could be hosted. Many states host a "blue face" and A "Multi Color" State Championship.


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## GRIV

restrada said:


> George,
> 
> Dang it George, now my name is in the hat so an opinion I must give.  First, I represent Franklin County, not Forsyth.



I know, I know!! I really screwed that one up. Sorry Rodney. I get the F-Counties mixed up all the time. I'm a dunce. Sorry about that!


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## restrada

No need for P.M. btw.  I can be reached at restrada@windstream.net.


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## restrada

Tis okay George.


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## bowsmith

watermedic said:


> When the current board took over, we had nothing in the bank and had lost most of the memberships in Georgia. The last 4 years we have been at the top of the list for states growing in memberships. We also have funds in the GBAA account.



What did the current membership numbers do when the indoor shoot was moved to Atlanta last year?  I am curious what the 2010 membership numbers were versus the 2011 numbers, because it seemed to me that there were a lot of new members shooting at the State Indoor..


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## GRIV

Oh and Rodney - here is part of what you need.


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## ScarletArrows

So here is what I have followed from this for the last couple of days:  Posts started calling out the "crying" that was coming from people about there being no GBAA shoots in ATL. (I started it I know...not trying to be a jerk but hey somethings get under your skin) There are no GBAA shoots in ATL because no one attended the Board of Directors meeting from those ATL clubs to place a "bid" on the shoots. Now its about... ? The fact that a well run organization needs to be changed because... ? I am finding some of this a bit hard to swallow...me thinks that there is more to this than meets the eye.


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## GRIV

Rodney, You'll need this too. 

OR anyone else interested in setting up a field or international shoot for that matter.


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## restrada

Thank you George.  I have FINALLY got it the document.  I wonder. .....


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## bowsmith

watermedic said:


> The rules were followed so quit crying you big baby.



I am a person who likes to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to follow the rules when I don't know what the rules are.  I would suggest posting the constitution and by-laws on the web site, so those of us who have never had our hands on a copy (until last night, thanks GRIV), know what we have to do in order to submit bids, and to help with the betterment of the organization.


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## GRIV

ScarletArrows said:


> So here is what I have followed from this for the last couple of days:  Posts started calling out the "crying" that was coming from people about there being no GBAA shoots in ATL. (I started it I know...not trying to be a jerk but hey somethings get under your skin) There are no GBAA shoots in ATL because no one attended the Board of Directors meeting from those ATL clubs to place a "bid" on the shoots. Now its about... ? The fact that a well run organization needs to be changed because... ? I am finding some of this a bit hard to swallow...me thinks that there is more to this than meets the eye.



Yes, you stirred it up and the discussion started, or at least my point, was "why so far away from the bulk of archers in the state" Archery Learning Center, an atlanta club, had a rep at the meeting and bid on the state indoor. It's the only bid I have control over. 

I'm not going to belabor the fact that we did put in a bid because it is now known that Fort Gordon really does want the shoot and I have offered any help I can give in that. You were there stirring that thread in facebook, so you saw that too. We will put in a bid for the state indoor again for next year. In the meantime I'll drag everyone I can down the Fort Gordon to shoot the state.


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## restrada

I do not represent an Atlanta club.  Scarlett, I don't know you, but I know your type.  I've often wished for an emoticon that I could use to show that I come in peace.   I think your heart, Scarlett, is in the right place.  Just wait for your head to catch up.


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## restrada

I got my constitution and by-laws from Tim Austin.  He's very helpful....let me dig around for his numbers.  I'll p.m. your number if you like.


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## GRIV

Yeah, I'll have to get a hotel room and drive to Rodney's shoot for sure.  But it's close enough to all those new archers in the mountains that are burning up the pro shops up there to get some new shooters hooked.


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## bowsmith

restrada said:


> I got my constitution and by-laws from Tim Austin.  He's very helpful....let me dig around for his numbers.  I'll p.m. your number if you like.



Thanks Rodney.  I was able to get a copy of the constitution and by-laws last night.  Appreciate it though.


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## ScarletArrows

restrada said:


> I do not represent an Atlanta club.  Scarlett, I don't know you, but I know your type.  I've often wished for an emoticon that I could use to show that I come in peace.   I think your heart, Scarlett, is in the right place.  Just wait for your head to catch up.



I don't come in peace often...I think I look at everything as a battle. Us vs Them. Me vs. You. Always have. Guess that's why I compete. I don't stir trouble just for trouble's sake. Rest assured on that one.  I stir trouble when I see people making excuses for something that they had control over, yet did not venture the attempt. I continue to stir when they want to sit back in their lazy chair complaining about the system that doesn't work for them. Even if it happens to work for everyone else. Plain and simple.  

What I worry about most though is when someone calls them out for it...how they try to spin it as being a whole different issue. When in reality, its just an attempt to save face. It makes me doubt heroes.

Just to be clear...what exactly is my type? 

I truly hope that you do get that approved range in Franklin. I will attempt to come there and shoot. I have not had the pleasure of shooting extreme slopes and really I do hope that this is the kind of Field course I have always heard about. I would love to climb some hills for the first time in years. Cause so far everything round these parts is table top flat. No need to learn to cut, even though I have ventured the attempt.  More courses in GA means more variety of places too shoot. 
And trust me it never crossed my mind that you wern't whole heartedly coming in peace.  But have faith, my head always leads the charge, though I may bump it on the wrong door occasionally.


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## GRIV

I don't feel like there is any face saving needed. If I did I'd apologize. I just stated my point then stuck to it. The reason this branches into other stuff is because the motives of my point were called into question. It's not about saving gas money or hotel money. It's about getting more shooters in the shoots and ultimately growing the organization. Now we could go back and refer to what I said if previous posts had  not been pulled because some users spun them out of control. 

old geeze doesn't even shoot in my shop. For him it is about gas money. We can't help him unless we can host the field at Leon's place. Sorry Geeze  I wish there was more that could be done there. 

Everyone has their reasons for their position in the discussion. I have been pretty clear about mine.


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## restrada

I have, Scarlett, tried to live my life by not having to say anything  I have to later come back to apologize for.  You go right for attack, and sadly in a public forum, then on I can count at least 3 occasions apologize for your vitriolic rhetoric.  That is your type.

You have anything more to say to me, I won't do it here.  I have given you private access to me through my email and when emailed I'll give you phone numbers.  I will not publicly pull my part in this sport in the mud.  Bring it to me personally, not here.  

I would love to host a shoot for you that makes you get out your inclinometer.  I even have a couple of shots that have water (a pond) behind them several walk-ups and transitional shots between forest and open pasture.  I think it could be great.


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## ScarletArrows

GRIV said:


> I know you guys would do everything you could do for a club that called you and wanted in on a shoot. You guys did that for me. I called Tom when I got the doors open on the shop and told him I wanted the state. He went through the trouble of coming into the store and having a look around and talking with me about what we needed to do to host the shoot.
> 
> ...
> 
> I dream of having a full archery training center with a FITA Lawn, a full Field Range, FITA Field, and 3D set up all the time so National teams, Local Customers, and international shooters can come in and shoot on. One day that may happen, until then we have to use what we can get.



Those lines are what makes me doubt the validity of any arguement your attempting to wage here and on Facebook about how shoots should be or are choosen. If the GBAA has the proven track record of helping clubs get shoots then...What really is the complaint here?

Lets be honest it has nothing to do with the fact that the GBAA needs to change its ways about shoot selection.  Its more about building the ALC to the heights you want it to be to, and the fact that the rules don't help you with that...so now you want change.  Which is fine. If I were in your shoes I would probably want the same things. I just don't want to hear that we need to build archery back to the heights of past...and make these shoots events... When its more about the ALC getting a shoot that benefits the ALC and its owner's desire to build it to something it isn't right at the moment.

An attempt to save face in my book is when someone wants something...yet the thing they want may make them look a bit "off putting"... then they say its about something else.

I'll straight up admit that some of this desire of mine to hold shoots in Savannah has a lot to do with making some money too. In turn so helping to build the reputation of both the Ogeechee Bowmen and the shop I work at Wildcat Archery...heck I want to see some of the other shops in the area benefit too, how sick am I. I wish we had the range space to hold state indoors...I can imagine what having all those customers in the shop for two days might do for business.  But alas, things are what they are and we can't.  

But I want to be clear on this...Your not going to hear me complain if a shoot is being held somewhere else (if I have its been in jest) about how its going to have a lower turn out, or be run poorly, or be tough to get in to.  I'm gonna go, shoot my worst (most likely) and have fun.

To argue that its for "the benefit of promoting archery" which in reality...is great.  IF it was for the benefit of promoting archery it would be for the benefit of all clubs in the state that are GBAA members. Not just North GA.  

And I hereby revert back to my original stance on the issue...Clubs from around GA have members come to ATL area shoots, yet when it boils down to it a lot of those ATL shooters don't leave the ATL area. I'm throwing down the gauntlet. You want to see Archery build across the state, you want to promote the sport to all. Get in your cars and come to the shoots where ever they may be. Quit your crying about GBAA shoots not being in ATL. And how things used to be. You want change, show up to the shoots and help those clubs make a few bucks. Money is the root of this evil, and if we want to weed out the "mediocitry" of our shoots and turn them into greater events then we have to get the clubs around the state more cash in their till.


----------



## ScarletArrows

restrada said:


> I have, Scarlett, tried to live my life by not having to say anything  I have to later come back to apologize for.  You go right for attack, and sadly in a public forum, then on I can count at least 3 occasions apologize for your vitriolic rhetoric.  That is your type.
> 
> You have anything more to say to me, I won't do it here.  I have given you private access to me through my email and when emailed I'll give you phone numbers.  I will not publicly pull my part in this sport in the mud.  Bring it to me personally, not here.
> 
> I would love to host a shoot for you that makes you get out your inclinometer.  I even have a couple of shots that have water (a pond) behind them several walk-ups and transitional shots between forest and open pasture.  I think it could be great.



Your correct...as per my attitude I do often go for the jugular and then have to triage my comments...I'm not perfect and in that sense of things I can see how you will comment that my heart is in the right place but my head needs to catch up.

I'm the classic over thinker...getting myself in to trouble all the time. Then having to step back and look at the issue or problem again a reassess. I make no qualms with being wrong....if wrong is what I really am.

And I would love to talk to ya...I think that once you and I spoke in person. My lack of the ability to convey my emotions as I attempt them to "paper" may be entirely the issue here.


----------



## restrada

Scarlett, you shoot bows and arrows.  I already like ya.  I am sorry I meet many people in my line of work, so I forget names and these dang nick names make it more difficult for me.  I don't doubt for an instance your intent or passion for the sport.  I think we can work together and until you make fun of my Bowtech compound and/or Win Win recurve, we'll be friends.  I'm going to dig through the documents George posted last night.  Can I rely on you for advice on how to submit and, if necessary, technical advice on specifics of NFAA shoots?


----------



## watermedic

Sorry restrada but you dont get a pass from me either. I haven't heard from you about getting your range inspected. I am on here daily and all of my info is on the GBAA website for all to see and use. 

Our GBAA pay (which is 0) doesnt allow us the ability to beat the bushes and drum up clubs that want to hold shoots. One of the things that the current board changed is reimbursement for board members for related expenses such as mileage, hotel and food. Which I feel was a change for the better. The GBAA board has never once stated that we want all shoots to be in this area or that.The idea that we feel different has been introduced by people on this forum.
I feel almost certain that I put as many miles as ANYONE in this state traveling to shoots that are held in Georgia. That includes 3D, Field, Target, Indoor, etc, etc.


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## restrada

Watermedic, before you say anything more that will make you look foolish, I recommend you speak to Jeff Wilks and or Tom Boots.  Particularly Tom Boots.  I take 0 from my club's treasury and HAVE tried repeatedly to get a site inspection.  Looks like the effort to host a GBAA shoot is one sided at best.  I, out of respect to Mr. Boots, will let him explain to you hopefully privately about my particular situation, but he has already emailed me his apology and a an explanation about his email troubles.  I do not doubt his explanation so let's not go there.  

Again I come in peace.  You don't see me on this board airing dirty laundry as I was taught better.  I am here now as my name SPECIFICALLY was used.  

I have taken the posture of not attacking and trying to ease into all this rancor with diplomacy.  Thus, I do not need a pass from you and have not sought your clemency.


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## watermedic

How can I look foolish? You have not contacted me. If I were looking for an inspection and didnt feel as though I was being supported, I would have contacted other members of the board. Which you have proven by contacting Tim Austin. Simple answer. All I said is that I dont feel as though all of the fault is on the GBAA for your situation. Take it how you want. Have a good day!!


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## restrada

Well, I warned ya medic.  But ya went and did it anyway.  Please do speak with Tom.  Only you can prevent what you say.  BTW, why do we hide behind nicks and avatars?  I don't even know whom I am addressing!!


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## GRIV

Scarlett you are as good at sticking to your point as I am mine. They don't match, and you are hammering on a point that is barely relavant to mine. 

I'll state it another way...

If all the shooters were in Waycross, Valdosta, Savannah, or Vegas for that matter, I'd be arguing for hosting it there. The fact is convenience drives attendance. Except when a shoot has become such an event that shooters will follow it anywhere. We don't have any such events. They need to be made. 

I don't know you at all. In fact I don't event know what your real stake in the discussion really is other than trolling for entertainment. Do you host shoots? It doesn't look like you are an officer of the GBAA. You don't seem interested in discussing anything and are masterful at taking a good swipe whomever with no real point. Since most of your posts here and facebook follow the same suit, I'll be sure and put the right amount of weight into your input here.


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## GRIV

watermedic said:


> Sorry restrada but you dont get a pass from me either. I haven't heard from you about getting your range inspected. I am on here daily and all of my info is on the GBAA website for all to see and use.
> 
> Our GBAA pay (which is 0) doesnt allow us the ability to beat the bushes and drum up clubs that want to hold shoots. One of the things that the current board changed is reimbursement for board members for related expenses such as mileage, hotel and food. Which I feel was a change for the better. The GBAA board has never once stated that we want all shoots to be in this area or that.The idea that we feel different has been introduced by people on this forum.
> I feel almost certain that I put as many miles as ANYONE in this state traveling to shoots that are held in Georgia. That includes 3D, Field, Target, Indoor, etc, etc.



I totally get that you guys are not being paid anything for what you do, and you do it for love of the game. I also admit that it is a pain to keep up with all the club changes of officers and who's contact information is what. I barely know who they all are either. I'm working on that. A phone call and a couple minutes on the phone doesn't cost anything. I'll help with that if you like. I also haven't forgotten that Tom went through the trouble to drive here to the shop and look over the range and go through the steps to bring off a state shoot. 

I know the GBAA can't really force a shoot into any area, but they can generate a little bid competition. I know beggars can't be choosers and If you don't have any bids you don't have any competition, and that part will need to be fostered into a working mechanism to grow the State. 

I can speak for myself and say that I'll help, and I get the feeling that Rodney and several other engergetic archery evangelists are willing too. 

For starters, what do we have to do in order to add an event to the state Calendar. I'd like to host a State Vegas Shoot. If you can add the round, I'll bid on it.


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## watermedic

I will check into that and let you know.


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## red1691

GRIV said:


> If all the shooters were in Waycross, Valdosta, Savannah, or Vegas for that matter, I'd be arguing for hosting it there.


 
It's Not about the numbers in a location, It's about the Clubs that are the grass roots to help new folks grow into the sport, and new clubs like restrada!



restrada said:


> I would love to host a shoot for you that makes you get out your inclinometer.  I even have a couple of shots that have water (a pond) behind them several walk-ups and transitional shots between forest and open pasture.  I think it could be great.



I like the sound of this course,This is why I shoot Field Archery, No 2 Field courses are the same. A clubs that take the time and money to build and have there range certified by the NFAA has the right to put in bids no matter there location in the state. Will have to see if it lives up to the Black range in Clemson!


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## 900 Shooter

I've read it a couple of times about all of the money generated by the shoots. The State Field at Kennesaw only came out with a $200.00 profit for our shoot. I personally spent well over 100 hours of my time getting our range ready for the shoot. The targets, target faces and plaques used up all of our money to hold the shoot. We hosted it so we could showcase our range not make money.


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## watermedic

You only had 38 shooters. That is what all of the field clubs are running into. I am not sold that having shoots in the metro area is the answer to the numbers game. We will see. 

Now that your range is ready, I am disapointed that you guys didn't bid on the State Target for 2012.


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## GRIV

Yeah, I think Field Archery is a special problem. It will take more that just setting up a course in the heart of the archery population. There just aren't that many people who care about field anymore. We will have to work hard and grow that aspect of the sport. We need ranges and some people out there leading the education effort to pull some shooters in. 

I have one idea that may help. A marked yardage "trail shoot" like Redding. Orange dots in the size of field targets scaled for the distance. Two arrows per target and field distances. We may pull over a few 3D shooters who venture out to try it. The trail shoots are HUGE on the west coast. I think it's worth a try.


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## watermedic

That is a great idea!! Now we are getting somewhere! We need to get together and come up with more ideas like this and see where we can hold this type of event. 

I am open to almost any venue involving archery. Most of my regular shooting friends are also.


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## 900 Shooter

We did not bid cause I had to work and no one else from our club to be there. I was under the impression that one of our members had to be at the meeting to  bid. Simple as that.


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## red1691

900 Shooter
Check out this thread if you are interested!

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=639080


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## firefighter310

and i will remain hidden in the back ground to see what else pops up!!! only one is a state officer. lets see who can pick him out. no cheating by looking on the state website. no prizes awarded either! and griv please explain the " trail shoot " to me better never shot or seen one.


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## Brian from GA

GRIV

We are having a trail shoot at Bennett Farms next year. We will use all our Rinehart targets that are not being used and a few of our older (Non-current, sorry couldn't resist  ) McKenizes to do this. I have also spoken with the critter Factory about their small pin on targets for some of the shorter distances. 

We are looking at 30 targets, 2 arrows per target the first year from 10 yards out to about 90 or so to replicate the Bigfoot target as best we can. Probably a month before Redding. 

We've been working on this one for about a year trying to plan it. We set a 15 target course and left it up for 6 months. It went from 15 to 60 yards. The ones that tried it loved it. We'll go from there.


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## Brian from GA

http://www.straightarrowbowhunters.com/

Here is a link to the Straight Arrow Bowhunters the host of the Redding TRail shoot. I have never been but have spoken to numerous shooters who say it is the funniest shoot they shoot all year including the likes of Levi Morgan, etc.


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## GRIV

Brian from GA said:


> GRIV
> 
> We are having a trail shoot at Bennett Farms next year. We will use all our Rinehart targets that are not being used and a few of our older (Non-current, sorry couldn't resist  ) McKenizes to do this. I have also spoken with the critter Factory about their small pin on targets for some of the shorter distances.
> 
> We are looking at 30 targets, 2 arrows per target the first year from 10 yards out to about 90 or so to replicate the Bigfoot target as best we can. Probably a month before Redding.
> 
> We've been working on this one for about a year trying to plan it. We set a 15 target course and left it up for 6 months. It went from 15 to 60 yards. The ones that tried it loved it. We'll go from there.



That is awesome news!!!!!!!! I would like to get that rolling here too. So when you guys figure out the kinks we can have you host the State Marked Trail shoot then? hehehe


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## 900 Shooter

I have seen that thread, what has that got to do with Kennesaw?


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## watermedic

I think that he is trying to tell you that it is available.


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## ScarletArrows

restrada said:


> Scarlett, you shoot bows and arrows.  I already like ya.  I am sorry I meet many people in my line of work, so I forget names and these dang nick names make it more difficult for me.  I don't doubt for an instance your intent or passion for the sport.  I think we can work together and until you make fun of my Bowtech compound and/or Win Win recurve, we'll be friends.  I'm going to dig through the documents George posted last night.  Can I rely on you for advice on how to submit and, if necessary, technical advice on specifics of NFAA shoots?



I may not be able to help you with the technical side of NFAA applications, Although I am more than willing to aid in any way your knowledge on how the shoots are set up and run...I shoot, fix/ tune bows, help others learn about the sport, and coach a bit... thats about as technical as I get. But when it comes down to it....why would anyone shoot anything other than a Bowtech


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## ScarletArrows

GRIV said:


> Scarlett you are as good at sticking to your point as I am mine. They don't match, and you are hammering on a point that is barely relavant to mine.
> 
> I'll state it another way...
> 
> If all the shooters were in Waycross, Valdosta, Savannah, or Vegas for that matter, I'd be arguing for hosting it there. The fact is convenience drives attendance. Except when a shoot has become such an event that shooters will follow it anywhere. We don't have any such events. They need to be made.
> 
> I don't know you at all. In fact I don't event know what your real stake in the discussion really is other than trolling for entertainment. Do you host shoots? It doesn't look like you are an officer of the GBAA. You don't seem interested in discussing anything and are masterful at taking a good swipe whomever with no real point. Since most of your posts here and facebook follow the same suit, I'll be sure and put the right amount of weight into your input here.




GRIV...Sorry if my opinions arn't valid to you. Apparently the small guy whom is the bulk of any archery tournament can't throw his two sense into the ring. 
Honestly what I am seeing here is guys trying to skirt the fact that they didn't want to play by the current rules and now want to come up with a bunch of new and wonderful ideas that they probably won't do anything to implement. I hope to be proven wrong in that though.

Maybe I should be a bit more blunt, see if you wiggle away from directness.  So the Question I pose to you is simply this.... 

Is this FOR YOU about promoting the sport...or building the reputation of the ALC?  

Cause honestly I didn't see you having any desire to change anything about the sport here in GA until the ALC got involved with the indoor. I could be wrong but I had heard something about you moving back to GA prior to the opening of the ALC...just strikes me as a bit odd that all the sudden your interested in promotion of the sport in GA. (small people like me have a tendancy to notice when a big guy with your big influence happens to move back in the area.--where is that sarcasm button --) Yet you don't want to attend any of the shoots sickness or work excuses withstanding...5 GBAA shoots this year, 1 GRIV turn out--oddly enough the one held in his shop.  

I just want to make sure that the intentions here are not a business man trying to benefit his own wallet....cause if they are its ok to admit it. No one would think any less of your arguement (which... correct me if I am wrong...is simply that you think that we should hold the shoots where they have the most potential for large turn out--BTW Its already been argued that the turn out doesn't happen...just look at the State Field at Kennesaw...turn out was the same as it was anywhere in the state. )...or would they (cause oddly enough your shop happens to be in the same area...the same one that your arguing should have the State Indoor year after year to help build the attendance...which you and I both know, has to be some sort of financial gain)? 

I think that "discussion" on this topic of creation of shoots and in turn the location of them was already delt with by the GBAA this year. AND I think REstrada's attempts at starting a new range are well on their way and I hope he gets the approval by the GBAA to host shoots there. I want to shoot in the Mountains dang it!!! 

Other than that I see a lot of "discussion" in this thread concerning things that will only happen if people work to make them happen. So If I can help in any way to build the sport...let me know. But till then this is pandering to musings of bored individuals on a late night after work...myself not withstanding. AND I revert back to my original post...YOU want to see change in the system...you want to see archery grow in GA. Then get in your cars and go to the shoots. I will add--> Invite friends to join you. Plain and simple. The clubs need funding to build...do what you can to support them. 

...proper weight into my input...sheesh...what does a guy have to do to get some respect round here. Win some championships...done. Work in the Industry..done.  Host shoots...well I dunno but I think the indoor rounds we hold at the shop have to count for something...I give up...guess my name has to be known by some archery god to hold a valid point...:


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## restrada

Scalett.  I feel ya.  I agree with about all you have said and I again feel you and I are not that far apart if not on the same field when it comes to our positions.  How's about a cyber handshake and we start fresh.  Besides you can't be all bad, you shoot Bowtech!

I've got a couple more tournaments we have registered to host, why don't you try a good old Fita round?  Afterwards, the whole GBAA bunch can come up and see my set up and then we can have a real meeting of the minds.  Attitudes, not welcome.  That would be October 22.  I'll make time available for the inspection on the 21 or the 23 or after the shoot on the 21.  If you see how my club hosts a pretty complicated half fita and or round and hopefully a clout, you'll be satisfied as to our ability to do more.  BTW, who call my club secretive.  I've only been pushing my thread for our club's shoots all freaking summer.  How is that secretive?


----------



## GRIV

ScarletArrows said:


> Is this FOR YOU about promoting the sport...or building the reputation of the ALC?



Both - I can't have one without the other. Can't have a bustling shop without a healthy archery community. I can't have a healthy archery community without a bustling shop. 

I moved here specifically to get my kids close to grandparents and open a shop so I could stay closer to home and raise my kids. Archery is what I do. I can't be a good dad and be on the road all the time. So I started a store. 

Owning a store and feeding your family off your own effort requires you to make choices, so I only made it out to one shoot because it was in my store. My store, until now, was a one man band, so I can't just lock the door and go shoot. 

I'll ignore the rest of the junk.


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## tescobedo

Bill,

I appreciate the hard work leading into the State Field and all of the effort during the shoot. My information is in the KAC membership directory, let me know how I can help with the next event.




900 Shooter said:


> I've read it a couple of times about all of the money generated by the shoots. The State Field at Kennesaw only came out with a $200.00 profit for our shoot. I personally spent well over 100 hours of my time getting our range ready for the shoot. The targets, target faces and plaques used up all of our money to hold the shoot. We hosted it so we could showcase our range not make money.


----------



## GRIV

Oh and one more thing....

Friday and Saturday is JOAD day where Archery Learning Center farms new archers all day. I think we are over a hundred kids in a four tier system for growing kids properly in the sport with a mind to keeping the kids in the sport. 

These friends will eventually become the participants in the state shoots as our program grows. It requires a HUGE commitment from Ms Ginger the Head Coach, Bud, and all our instructors to keep this going every weekend. We have only paused the program once and that was for the State indoor. 

Am I growing my store? Yes. Am I growing archery? Yes

next I'll start an adult program with the same four tiers to bring in more "I'm just looking" and convert them to target shooters as well. Again the motives will be totally selfish. Padding the sport so I'll have a fun place to shoot with a lot of people to shoot with. 

Your short sightedness rancorous pot stirring is ridiculous.


----------



## 900 Shooter

tescobedo said:


> Bill,
> 
> I appreciate the hard work leading into the State Field and all of the effort during the shoot. My information is in the KAC membership directory, let me know how I can help with the next event.



Thanks and I will be in touch next time.


----------



## ScarletArrows

I can't have one without the other. Can't have a bustling shop without a healthy archery community. I can't have a healthy archery community without a bustling shop.

True...and you can't have a healthy archery community around the state if you just keep the shoots in one place. GBAA is working to benefit the shops and the clubs around the state. My rancorous pot stirring stems holy from this fact.

GRIV all I wanted was  you to admit this fact that your doing this as a benefit for your shop. Its not solely just about building archery tournament turn outs. The arguement of "only here...cause we have more shooters" is a bias... and unproven. You have held one shoot in ATL area with 1 good turn out, in my books that is not the norm... its one time occurance in the last 4 years. (Now don't get me wrong I do think you could repeat it...2013 will tell.) Heck I think the ASA in Augusta each year draws one amazing turn out... What was that turnout last year people often say it seems like there is over 1,000?

By the logic argued then we should be holding all our shoots in Augusta where they draw the biggest crowds.

There are plunty of places growing Archery all across the state. None of us can sit in our backyard...and scream that our area has the most players and everyone should come to you to play. Its just not true for anyone.


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## red1691

*Make the Call*



900 Shooter said:


> I have seen that thread, what has that got to do with Kennesaw?



All you have to do is make the call or email the GBAA Offices and you can hold the GBAA State Target! And I will do my best to bring as large a group out of the Savannah area as I can to Kennesaw to support your club. 
Or who ever's club that may get it, if any try.


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## 900 Shooter

I'm really taken aback from the constant negative banter about attendance at state shoots across the state. This is only going to have a negative impact on the GBAA. 
Kennesaw will not be posting any bids for tournaments any time in the near future.


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## oldgeez

Both - I can't have one without the other. Can't have a bustling shop without a healthy archery community. I can't have a healthy archery community without a bustling shop. 

okay, griv has said, he needs the business.  that, i hope, will satisfy the arguing that has been going on FAR too long.  this thread is getting just like the congress and the spending cap deal.  it has probably already had a negative impact, which can only get worse, if it continues.  i sincerely hope this is the last post i see on this particular subject.  just me and 900archer's .02


----------



## Taylor Co.

Brian from GA said:


> GRIV
> 
> We are having a trail shoot at Bennett Farms next year. We will use all our Rinehart targets that are not being used and a few of our older (Non-current, sorry couldn't resist  ) McKenizes to do this. I have also spoken with the critter Factory about their small pin on targets for some of the shorter distances.
> 
> We are looking at 30 targets, 2 arrows per target the first year from 10 yards out to about 90 or so to replicate the Bigfoot target as best we can. Probably a month before Redding.
> 
> We've been working on this one for about a year trying to plan it. We set a 15 target course and left it up for 6 months. It went from 15 to 60 yards. The ones that tried it loved it. We'll go from there.



I am really interested in this type of shooting around here. Will be awesome. Brian! I have been wanting this for GA.


----------



## Taylor Co.

GRIV said:


> Oh and one more thing....
> 
> Friday and Saturday is JOAD day where Archery Learning Center farms new archers all day. I think we are over a hundred kids in a four tier system for growing kids properly in the sport with a mind to keeping the kids in the sport.
> 
> These friends will eventually become the participants in the state shoots as our program grows. It requires a HUGE commitment from Ms Ginger the Head Coach, Bud, and all our instructors to keep this going every weekend. We have only paused the program once and that was for the State indoor.
> 
> Am I growing my store? Yes. Am I growing archery? Yes
> 
> next I'll start an adult program with the same four tiers to bring in more "I'm just looking" and convert them to target shooters as well. Again the motives will be totally selfish. Padding the sport so I'll have a fun place to shoot with a lot of people to shoot with.
> 
> Your short sightedness rancorous pot stirring is ridiculous.


I applaud what you are doing up there GRIV! You are growing a business and a sport. Priceless!!! Trey D.


----------



## ScarletArrows

restrada said:


> Scalett.  I feel ya.  I agree with about all you have said and I again feel you and I are not that far apart if not on the same field when it comes to our positions.  How's about a cyber handshake and we start fresh.  Besides you can't be all bad, you shoot Bowtech!
> 
> I've got a couple more tournaments we have registered to host, why don't you try a good old Fita round?  Afterwards, the whole GBAA bunch can come up and see my set up and then we can have a real meeting of the minds.  Attitudes, not welcome.  That would be October 22.  I'll make time available for the inspection on the 21 or the 23 or after the shoot on the 21.  If you see how my club hosts a pretty complicated half fita and or round and hopefully a clout, you'll be satisfied as to our ability to do more.  BTW, who call my club secretive.  I've only been pushing my thread for our club's shoots all freaking summer.  How is that secretive?



I have attended a few FITA shoots in the past when I was shooting Oly style Recurve...regretfully I don't think I can make that trek at that time of year. Boss man at the shop is probably going to be outta town on a hunt and since its just the two of us...I'm selling some bows hopefully that weekend. I will check back often to see when your holding one I can shoot. Might stop on the way and pick up Geeze so we can have a mind melding of the Bowtech's in Franklin Co.


----------



## ScarletArrows

900 Shooter said:


> I'm really taken aback from the constant negative banter about attendance at state shoots across the state. This is only going to have a negative impact on the GBAA.
> Kennesaw will not be posting any bids for tournaments any time in the near future.



My pot stirring is done with a singular mindset of making sure that its understood that this organization should benefit the whole state.  If anyone feels as though I'm being negative...well yea I am. I won't argue that. I'm passionate about the sport and I don't want to see one crowd in one area benefit from the work of many all the time.    

But I am only one mouth...I don't speak for anyone except me.  Kennesaw is an amazing club, with amazing people in it. Generates some talented shooters and at the very least is in a great area for holding good shoots. Don't toss in the hat, just because of some posts on the internet.


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## GRIV

We should be able to have a discussion about where best to hold a shoot and where we think it would be the most successful without burning down the village. I don't see why all the passion for archery can't be funneled down a positive track. 

I don't have a list of all the club reps and I need to talk with y'all about a State Vegas Indoor shoot. The GBAA will open it up for a vote if I can talk with enough of y'all to be sure the idea has legs enough to stand up to the trouble of gathering up the votes. I've been told the ball is in my court and I can work this one out to see if we can do it. If you are a state rep, drop me your details in a PM and when would be a good time to talk and I'll give you a call.


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## ScarletArrows

We have to keep in mind what may happen if we hold the Vegas round and the 5 Spot round in two locations on two different dates. One could easily reference the fact that with the GAA's indoor FITA  usually in Conyers...and when the GBAA's 5 spot is held usually in Ft. Gordon, a lot shooters attend one or the other.  Very few attend both. One could argue that this is even seen with Vegas and Louisville...I could be wrong. This should be a cause for concern, by pulling numbers away from one club for another within the Same organization, are you benefiting the whole organization? Furthermore, Something I often feel is a cause for concern by having 2 state organizations. One of which never moves its shoots...But that is a topic for another time.

Then again we could hold 2 state targets...3 or 4 more 3-d's.

More is better, right? (and yes that is a pot stirring question)


----------



## In the zone

GRIV said:


> We should be able to have a discussion about where best to hold a shoot and where we think it would be the most successful without burning down the village. I don't see why all the passion for archery can't be funneled down a positive track.
> 
> I don't have a list of all the club reps and I need to talk with y'all about a State Vegas Indoor shoot. The GBAA will open it up for a vote if I can talk with enough of y'all to be sure the idea has legs enough to stand up to the trouble of gathering up the votes. I've been told the ball is in my court and I can work this one out to see if we can do it. If you are a state rep, drop me your details in a PM and when would be a good time to talk and I'll give you a call.


\

George,

For the past several years, the Vegas round has been recognized by the NFAA as an official indoor round.  You can still use the Vegas round as the State Indoor Championship without actually creating and additional state tournament.  You can even do a combination (1 vegas round, and 1 NFAA 300 Indoor Round).

Jim


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## bowsmith

ScarletArrows said:


> We have to keep in mind what may happen if we hold the Vegas round and the 5 Spot round in two locations on two different dates. One could easily reference the fact that with the GAA's indoor FITA  usually in Conyers...and when the GBAA's 5 spot is held usually in Ft. Gordon, a lot shooters attend one or the other.  Very few attend both. One could argue that this is even seen with Vegas and Louisville...I could be wrong. This should be a cause for concern, by pulling numbers away from one club for another within the Same organization, are you benefiting the whole organization? Furthermore, Something I often feel is a cause for concern by having 2 state organizations. One of which never moves its shoots...But that is a topic for another time.
> 
> Then again we could hold 2 state targets...3 or 4 more 3-d's.
> 
> More is better, right? (and yes that is a pot stirring question)




Almost every other state has both a state Vegas and a state blue/white face.  Heck, in Michigan we traveled every weekend for tournaments with a large turn out.  Clubs went through a rotation hosting, similar to a 3d schedule, and is one reason that target archery has grown in other states, while it remains stagnant in ours.


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## KPreston

*State Vegas!!!!!*

I like the idea of both a vegas 3spot and a 5 spot state shoot.  The vegas shoot would be good early in the year before the vegas nationals.---KP---


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## GRIV

In the zone said:


> \
> 
> George,
> 
> For the past several years, the Vegas round has been recognized by the NFAA as an official indoor round.  You can still use the Vegas round as the State Indoor Championship without actually creating and additional state tournament.  You can even do a combination (1 vegas round, and 1 NFAA 300 Indoor Round).
> 
> Jim



New York alternated shoots between the "blue face" and the "multi color". I like the idea of having both I think that gives more opportunity for people to stay out with their bows and if scheduling permits, having it before Vegas would be a great warm-up for those headed to Vegas. I think more options is a  good thing though there is a chance of diluting the market. I think if we work together on scheduling we can keep the crowd twanging strings and sharing venues.


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## oldgeez

i, too, like the idea of another indoor shoot.  with the creation of all the indoor clubs, shooting during the week in the winter, the indoor crowd has grown tremendously.  the problem is, a lot of 3d'ers that shoot at the weekly shoots with their friends, are very aloof to be labeled a "spotty!!"  i can see more and more coming over every year, after hunting season, when they start getting bored and want to shoot their bows, lol!!  i always shoot both the indoors, if possible, because over the years they have become an "event" for me.  we just have to get that mindset into others, lots of others!!  that, unfortunately takes time..especially with this "us vs them" attitude that has developed over the years.  just my .02


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## BHuff

I think more than one state indoor woud be great . I think attendance would be good if held before 3-d kick's in while it's still cold. Maybe late January or early February.


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## GRIV

oldgeez said:


> 3d'ers that shoot at the weekly shoots with their friends, are very aloof to be labeled a "spotty!!"



The Spotty Nation rides again!


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## ScarletArrows

bowsmith said:


> Almost every other state has both a state Vegas and a state blue/white face.  Heck, in Michigan we traveled every weekend for tournaments with a large turn out.  Clubs went through a rotation hosting, similar to a 3d schedule, and is one reason that target archery has grown in other states, while it remains stagnant in ours.



interesting idea.-->rotating tournaments....

sorry I couldn't resist.


I do like the idea of combination at one GBAA tournament.


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## ScarletArrows

BHuff said:


> I think more than one state indoor woud be great . I think attendance would be good if held before 3-d kick's in while it's still cold. Maybe late January or early February.



Definately agree with the time frame...ANY shop in GA will tell you Indoor in late Feb/ early March starts to die out. Got to catch em while its hot...er cold....er not hot...er you get what I am sayin.

Heck if Global Warming continues we might get lucky enough in the south/ GA to shoot Indoor...outdoors...that's an idea the Outdoor Indoor. 

THEN again it is so Hot in this part of the world we might need to move our outdoor shoots into the winter and spring and have our indoor shoots in the summer...


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## GRIV

Jim, 

Just a seat of the pants observation... The group the GAA gets for National Indoor, GAA State, and the JOAD indoor shoots you host seem to be a totally different group of people. There is some overlap, but would you say your group is a different group from the normal attendees at GBAA shoots? 

What is your normal turnout numbers for the indoor events you host? I'd say it looks pretty big. Are you pretty well keeping the numbers the same or are you trending up or down over the last couple years?


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## ScarletArrows

Just a curiousity question here but other than Kennesaw what other clubs are around the ATL area? That can hold a Field or Target shoot? And can hold only 3-D?


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## In the zone

GRIV said:


> Jim,
> 
> Just a seat of the pants observation... The group the GAA gets for National Indoor, GAA State, and the JOAD indoor shoots you host seem to be a totally different group of people. There is some overlap, but would you say your group is a different group from the normal attendees at GBAA shoots?
> 
> What is your normal turnout numbers for the indoor events you host? I'd say it looks pretty big. Are you pretty well keeping the numbers the same or are you trending up or down over the last couple years?



There is some overlap George.  There are us that have been doing it for years that will try and shoot both (GAA and GBAA) when we can.  It seems there are some that will shoot one format, but not the other..  Not sure if this is because of different rules (FITA rules, dress code) or simply the fact that they don't want to support another organization.

I think the biggest influence we see in numbers is because of JOAD clubs.  If a few JOAD clubs have popped up and the coaches/parents are proactive in having the kids participate, then we will see larger participation.  An example of that is ALC and Franklin County.  This year at the JOAD State indoor and the GAA State Indoor there was a really good turnout because these clubs (as well as some others) wanted to shoot.


----------



## restrada

I would add to Coach Pruitte's comment with Forsyth County, Bulloch County (Carl Greene's folks) Fayetteville County, Kennesaw and a couple others.  I find the biggest complaint about crossing over to NAA stuff is the dress code.  The "you can strip my camo off my cold dead body" mentality keeps some from coming, but mainly it is a real lack of information on access to shoots.  Our club has made a full court press on pushing our shoots out there in FB, GON, 4H listserv, press and word of mouth.  For all our work, we still get the old I never heard a word about it.  One of the reasons we don't bother with a website is this vacumn we operate in.  A clearing house of information where everyone in Georgia knew about every shoot would be awesome.  Big John has something percolating and you (ALC) has the ability.


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## Miss Ginger

If we go back and look at how the archery industry in general has adjusted their focus to be more inclusive of all people....... children, handicapped, 3-Ders, women, elderly, new people, etc,  I see many more people in these catagories starting to attend tournaments . 

Back in the day, the main focus was on the more advanced athete, adults (with spending power);

 JOAD, handicapped, and the occasional participant were certainly welcome, just not catered to as the others.

That is not to say any club isn't doing that now, I saw so many kids at the GAA events this summer... wow, what a difference! I know that the guys out at Franklin County are working very hard to provide the same opportunity for people that want to shoot there. 

So now is just a great time to continue these talks, develop a working relationship between clubsand shops, so that *everyone* will benefit. Regardless of what motivates them to be a working part of the community.

Heck, like it or not.. ya gotta know that the MEGA shoot a few summers ago was a perfect example of how clubs and shops worked together to bring a pretty exciting and VERY successful event to the metro area. They are still talking about it years later. 

Maybe we have a meeting; get together, bring your ideas, map out a plan for the year, get a cup of coffee, sit and see if we can't work out a fun and exciting season for everyone!

Wouldn't that be a hoot!


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## restrada

I'll even travel to let's say Statesboro to help our South Georgia brethren with travel to have that discussion Ginger.  I won't make the coffee, lawsuits would ensue, but a great idea none-the-less.  An independent Georgia Archery Community with representatives from GAA, GBAA, Pro-Shops, 3ders, USAC etc. getting together in a congress to plan a circuit of shoots that traverse the state.  The archer that makes the effort makes use of the Gainesville club's method of determining the SOY and a cash, equipment or trophy prize for each class that tries to hit the circuit 80% of the available shoots.  Mr. Pescitilli has a wonderful beta method of keeping these scores up with ALC.  Big John has the beta format for a Georgia Archery Community website.  Everyone who has a bow is welcome and we encourage for the state chapters of GAA and GBAA membership and participation.  Everyone wins and I will try.  I'll give it a go!


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## restrada

So if we get 10 clubs to host a shoot, we have 8 shoots to hit.  No concentration in one format, each format 3d, field, target and indoor are equal in the formula.  You don't have to win necessarily but you do have to shoot a minimum of 8 to be considered SOY.  Then those that shot a ranking system like a rolling ranking based on arrow point average or participation or whatever is used to rank the ones who tried.  The more clubs hosting, the larger the pool of shoots and so on...........


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## Miss Ginger

Cool Rodney!

I already have an idea hatching.... would allow everyone (clubs, competitiors, shops)  to participate at some level, could really be a win/win for everyone!

if anyone would be interested...

each club/shop could use one of their usual tournaments as their contribution to the tour. Or they could contribute one specifically designated to the tour, their choice. 

We could have a different format for each event.... vegas, Fita, field, 3-D, etc.....


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## restrada

Weird.....me and you had the mind meld going on!!  Or Great minds think alike!!  But yes, this kind of reform is going to help everyone, all shops, all clubs and the state bodies.  I can't find a down side except people refusing to participate or refusing to give up power.  We'll divide Georgia into 4 zones.  Each zone gets 1/4 of the SOY shoots.  Therefore, travel would be required by all.


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## Miss Ginger

Hey... wanna send me a pm.... ?


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## ScarletArrows

Sounds a lot like the SOY award the GBAA already does....I'm not opposed to the idea of creating another circuit of tournaments. Just as long as they don't draw away from the current organizations.  Have to keep in mind that. This could easily turn out to be another detrement to turn outs if one club or organization that doesn't participate wants to hold a State Championship over a weekend that this "new" SOY circuit wants to hold one on.

Logistically this should be held as a discussion at a tournament that already exsists...with the full and willful participation of the hosting Club and State organization.  Phone calls should be made..and every attempt offered to every club in the State. Leave one group out...and its going to create a arguement. 

One which I will probably stir ;-)


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## watermedic

Tony, I think that everyone is finally getting to where we have been for a while now. It just took a lot of mess to get here.


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## oldgeez




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## Miss Ginger

ScarletArrows said:


> Sounds a lot like the SOY award the GBAA already does....I'm not opposed to the idea of creating another circuit of tournaments. Just as long as they don't draw away from the current organizations.  Have to keep in mind that. This could easily turn out to be another detrement to turn outs if one club or organization that doesn't participate wants to hold a State Championship over a weekend that this "new" SOY circuit wants to hold one on.
> 
> Logistically this should be held as a discussion at a tournament that already exsists...with the full and willful participation of the hosting Club and State organization.  Phone calls should be made..and every attempt offered to every club in the State. Leave one group out...and its going to create a arguement.
> 
> One which I will probably stir ;-)



Lots of clubs and organizations offer SOY tournaments. I think this is gonna be something with a bit of a different twist from the typical SOY program; just for fun.

Already considering what you are concerned with... way ahead of ya..... 

what we definately DON'T want is yet another tournament. We will just work within the perimeters of what is already out there. Keeping it from interfering with other club events will be no problem at all....in fact, my idea will increase participation for all participating clubs.

Now, why would we want to leave anyone out???? That wouldn't be playing nice.  

The whole idea is to find a positive path to harmony, not more adversity. If someone doesn't want to join in, so be it(bummer), entirely up to them; everyone is welcome. The more, the merrier, I say.


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## bowsmith

ScarletArrows said:


> Just as long as they don't draw away from the current organizations.



Yep, would hate to draw away from the crowds of 30.  MORE OPPORTUNITIES = MORE PARTICIPATION!



> Phone calls should be made..and every attempt offered to every club in the State.



Hmmm...the same protocol that could be followed for say, getting clubs to host tournaments?


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## ScarletArrows

But apparently not everyone Chuck....

Bowsmith you rancorous pot stirrer you ....keep in mind those crowds only exsist because of people whom seem to lack the ability or motivation to attend shoots, less it is held in their backyard. And sometimes I think maybe they do have the ability but "They's is skeer'd." But we can talk more in Savannah or Augusta this year.   Or heck I might even come on up to ATL and shoot with you guys at a GAA shoot next year. (That is if they don't meet me at the Conyers city limit sign and tell me "you ain't welcome round here boy." Would I blame them...nah...I'm a bit of a jerk just ask anyone whom knows me.)  

And not always does more opportunity=more participation. Sometimes it causes rifts...and seperations in where people want to go to support the sport. I mean I weigh it out too...Shoot a local 3-D or drive to Augusta for a Target Championship.  I can often make a good argument either way when it comes to where to shoot. Those whom want to go will go. Those whom don't will always find an excuse. And sometimes the Local 3-D is a good excuse not to drive 2 hours to a State Championship. But when you make that decision.  What is happening at that State Championship? Less turn out.  There was more opportunity did that equal more participation? Or maybe I am not following your (a=b) math here and I need a bit more explaination...cause in school I stunk at algebra but 1=2 doesn't always work out too well...

I would argue Opportunity + Proper Organization + Good promotion = Good turnouts. But then there is the Weather...

Furthermore...when something like this idea that Ms. Ginger is posing is in its infancy. Phone calls are a necessity. 

When you have an established entity that has exsisted for what 20 some odd years now, i.e. the GBAA, it kinda has the clout to establish its own guidelines that lay out its desires for how bidding by clubs for state championships can be conducted.  You know... in that constitution nobody has read until they want to complain that the shoots wern't being held where "they" wanted.  HECK I have even seen the organization try to keep some peace by offering up shoots...But I digress...we've been down this road...and I don't want to keep kicking a dead horse.


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## GRIV

Ginger is burning my ears up with the plan. I am up to my eyeballs in bowhunters right now, but I think this is a great idea that needs a little shepherding. Ginger has already done it with 3D and it worked great. With a little massaging to fold target shoots into it, I am excited about the possibility. It has to potential to compel shooters to cross over that wouldn't have done it otherwise. I think it will be a great way to get those GAA guys over to GBAA, and Heck I might go shoot a rubber deer or two.


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## watermedic

Patrick I think that what you dont understand is if a club has to be begged to host a shoot, it is not going to be a very good tournament. The club needs members and officers that push for the club to hold shoots. There are only two target archery organizations in Georgia, GAA and GBAA so clubs that want to hold shoots don't have to contact many people to put their name in a hat.

To take it a step further, a club can buy some nice trophies and hold any shoot that they want. It just wont be a GAA or GBAA State Championship shoot. But will still have the bling for the win. I dont see an issue with that?

This is not directed at anyone, if you feel that way Hmmm....


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## restrada

biting my tongue to help archery grow.


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## dgmeadows

*Gotta jump in...*



GRIV said:


> Ginger is burning my ears up with the plan. I am up to my eyeballs in bowhunters right now, but I think this is a great idea that needs a little shepherding. Ginger has already done it with 3D and it worked great. With a little massaging to fold target shoots into it, I am excited about the possibility. It has to potential to compel shooters to cross over that wouldn't have done it otherwise. I think it will be a great way to get those GAA guys over to GBAA, and Heck I might go shoot a rubber deer or two.



George, I haven't met you yet but am sure I will eventually.  I do know Miss Ginger well, as I and my daughter were active participants in the MEGA series she helped coordinate with 12 Point, Lake Oconee, etc a few years back.  One thing that concerns me in your quoted post above is "compel shooters to cross over".  That is exactly what happened with the MEGA after a pretty good first year (not without flaws, but a very good start) - they started trying to require some target elements, and much consternation resulted and the fruit died on the vine in the second year.  The first part of your quote above has the key - covered up with bowhunters - that's where the expansion market is - converting guys & gals that bring out the bow in late August and put it up when gun season starts into year round shooters.  If you hit them with 4 or more different formats of shooting, each with its own individual rules and dress codes, not to mention the "perceptions" of "ideal" equipment for each, I fear that growing the participation base won't happen.  

I am all for better communication and coordination to try to get participation up at shoots all around the state, but I am concerned that the concept of "requiring" folks to shoot X# of 3D rounds, and Y# of Vegas rounds and Z# of FITA rounds will be counterproductive.  In most parts of this state, there are no well known places to shoot indoor, or field or FITA, including here in Augusta, the 2nd largest city in the state.  I can hold my own in 3D, but without the ability to practice and at least become familiar with the other disciplines, I doubt I would invest the time and energy to travel around and shoot them.  And I am an archery addict (just ask my wife.)

Now I would love to have a shop like ALC here in Augusta - the core group of guys around here are desperately wanting a place to shoot indoors.  Your shop sounds like that unique ideal - a place where bowhunters can get what they want and need, and also where dedicated archers can hone their skills on paper year-round.  The casual bowhunter comes in for a camo bow or new sight, see guys shooting shiny stuff and weird releases with no triggers, start hanging around and asking questions, and over time you have made a casual bowhunter into an archery addict.  Through your shop and others like it is where that conversion can take place.   But getting bowhunters to shoot paper is step one, then getting them to shoot year round and travel to competions is another step.  Some will want to start with 3D, some may like the NFAA or Vegas Indoor better, but trying to force them to dive into multiple shooting styles all at once will likely be counterproductive.

I am not trying to stamp out the fire, just throw in my 2 cents worth from several years of running around this state shooting 3D.


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## Miss Ginger

It is always very nice to hear good things about MEGA. It was a tremendous amount of work, I really loved doing it. I put my heart and soul into it.... 

Actually...... MEGA didn't die out... there was never any crossing over thing.

MEGA was intended to be a 3-D only focus, for strictly 1 season, right from the beginning. It did just what we created it to do.

We won't be developing anything that has any strict rules that force shooters to do anything they don't want to be involved in. 

The intent here is to create a little different twist on all of the disiplines of our sport, for fun.....and to do that in a manner of mutual respect and cooperation for the good of everyone.

I believe we can do that. I will,l as always, be very open to hearing everyone's concerns and ideas.  

More to come!................


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## dgmeadows

Miss Ginger said:


> It is always very nice to hear good things about MEGA. It was a tremendous amount of work, I really loved doing it. I put my heart and soul into it....
> 
> Actually...... MEGA didn't die out... there was never any crossing over thing.
> 
> MEGA was intended to be a 3-D only focus, for strictly 1 season, right from the beginning. It did just what we created it to do.
> 
> ................



Miss Ginger -  I was about to reply and say I must have just misunderstood odd stuff through the grapevine about the 2nd year of MEGA, but I did a quick search here on the GON Forum and found the thread copied below....

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=271189&highlight=mega


That's what I remember...


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## Miss Ginger

Never the less, MEGA was created to be a soley one time deal.  

It was successful enough that we tried to expand, however, at that time there wasn't enough interest.... no one offered to help, and as I gave my time and effort the entire first year to MEGA free of charge... worked myself for endless hours, the whole season. I was unwilling to do it again for another year, by myself,  with no compesation.... it just didn't work out. That doesn't wipe out the good that MEGA was.

Whether any solutions to the differences stated here on this thread are obtainable or not remains to be seen. I think it will be decided by how much everyone wants to move on and resolve these stated issues that prohibit us from making progress. 

 We certainly don't have to do anything that I suggest, this could be another huge undertaking for sure!  Everyone is free to make up their own mind.

It would just be nice to see a little cooperation between groups, instead of the hammering away at each other. It's the shooters that stand to win or loose.


----------



## GRIV

dgmeadows said:


> George, I haven't met you yet but am sure I will eventually.  I do know Miss Ginger well, as I and my daughter were active participants in the MEGA series she helped coordinate with 12 Point, Lake Oconee, etc a few years back.  One thing that concerns me in your quoted post above is "compel shooters to cross over".  That is exactly what happened with the MEGA after a pretty good first year (not without flaws, but a very good start) - they started trying to require some target elements, and much consternation resulted and the fruit died on the vine in the second year.  The first part of your quote above has the key - covered up with bowhunters - that's where the expansion market is - converting guys & gals that bring out the bow in late August and put it up when gun season starts into year round shooters.  If you hit them with 4 or more different formats of shooting, each with its own individual rules and dress codes, not to mention the "perceptions" of "ideal" equipment for each, I fear that growing the participation base won't happen.
> 
> I am all for better communication and coordination to try to get participation up at shoots all around the state, but I am concerned that the concept of "requiring" folks to shoot X# of 3D rounds, and Y# of Vegas rounds and Z# of FITA rounds will be counterproductive.  In most parts of this state, there are no well known places to shoot indoor, or field or FITA, including here in Augusta, the 2nd largest city in the state.  I can hold my own in 3D, but without the ability to practice and at least become familiar with the other disciplines, I doubt I would invest the time and energy to travel around and shoot them.  And I am an archery addict (just ask my wife.)
> 
> Now I would love to have a shop like ALC here in Augusta - the core group of guys around here are desperately wanting a place to shoot indoors.  Your shop sounds like that unique ideal - a place where bowhunters can get what they want and need, and also where dedicated archers can hone their skills on paper year-round.  The casual bowhunter comes in for a camo bow or new sight, see guys shooting shiny stuff and weird releases with no triggers, start hanging around and asking questions, and over time you have made a casual bowhunter into an archery addict.  Through your shop and others like it is where that conversion can take place.   But getting bowhunters to shoot paper is step one, then getting them to shoot year round and travel to competions is another step.  Some will want to start with 3D, some may like the NFAA or Vegas Indoor better, but trying to force them to dive into multiple shooting styles all at once will likely be counterproductive.
> 
> I am not trying to stamp out the fire, just throw in my 2 cents worth from several years of running around this state shooting 3D.



I hear what you are saying. It's not the intention of the idea to FORCE anyone to do anything. However there will be a large benefit for those willing to try new stuff and branch out. The plan is still in its infancy, but I am sure you could participate in whatever rounds you wish to shoot and take your score as is. 

The intention is to not disrupt the normal goings on of the archery organizations, but rather augment what they are already doing and help promote more participation.


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## PAUL J

now george, you are still showing your barbaric zeal !


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## BlackArcher

Ok I read this post up until this point: got past the bickering.  So I could not help but wonder.  
Do I fully understand the reasoning that transpired for 3 pages?
So I challenge you to simply state your conclusions by answering a few questions for the community.

So Please what is the agreed upon plan to grow target archery in the state of GA?
Please be Clear, state what is relevant, What is your logic does these ideas make sense?
What are the significance of these ideas  and their implications?
Are these ideas approached with fairness to all involved?


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## ScarletArrows

Q.So Please what is the agreed upon plan to grow target archery in the state of GA?

A.There isn't one. There have been proposed ideas that come in the wake of an issues that arose on Facebook concerning a post by an individual whom stated that they where shocked to see no GBAA shoots in ATL. (Which is a result of how bids for GBAA shoots are conducted...Only one shoot bid upon by an ATL area club...That shoot was held by that club last year and when another club bids against it...it must move via GBAA bylaws.) As per why these ideas have arisen is a good guess...I think it stems from desires to help promote target archery across the state and in turn draw shooters out of their "backyards" to travel to shoots. Ms. Ginger is proposing a sort of SOY idea that could cross GAA, and GBAA lines.

Q.Please be Clear, state what is relevant, What is your logic, do these ideas make sense?

A.Logic ......As it exsists GBAA currently has a SOY award and I think it works well to stem involvement of archers whom want that award. Will the average joe give a hoot if there is a GBAA+GAA SOY award...I dunno.

Q.What are the significance of these ideas  and their implications?

A.Depends on if anyone really works to implicate their ideas. AND if those ideas are implicated in such a manner as to draw shooters whom only attend one type of shoot...whether it be Indoor, Outdoor Target or 3-D away from their norm.

Q.Are these ideas approached with fairness to all involved?

A.Depends on HOW anyone works to implicate their ideas.  


--Personally I don't have the long term experiance to note whether or not turn outs have dwindled from what they used to be. I have only been participating in GA shoots for 5 years now. One thing I do note is that turn outs at 3-D shoots are always higher than target shoots. With the exception of the GBAA indoor this year...which I didn't attend.  Is it because target is intimidating to shooters...possibly...is it because most shooters are "bowhunters" and not target archers in any form or another and they in turn only desire to shoot -target wise- what is similar to what they are attempting to do..i.e. HUNT. ..possibly.  

HERE is how I see it --->

ARCHERY IS EXPENSIVE. Travel, arrows, gas, bows, accessories, entry fees, membership...all cost money and the amount of money involved in getting into "target" archery is high no doubt about it. Those that want to do so have to spend some hard earned dollars and then in turn burn them up in their tanks and in one time use beds....FOR a lot of people the cost is not justifiable to go out to a shoot and get their "booty handed to them," or to go far away just to shoot some arrows for fun which they can do in their backyard.

For you to draw new shooters into the sport there has to be a change in the pocket books of the average joe...which lord knows NONE of us have control over that one.  So what can we do...

We can go to shoots...support the clubs that are hosting State Shoots. Where ever they are. Let those clubs use that money to host regular shoots in their area in turn using it to promote the sport on the beginning level to new shooters.  Help those clubs to set up those shoots and invite shooters to attend them. Work with your club to keep "practice rounds" involved in local shoots for those guys whom want to try it out for the first time on the cheap. Help them to organize youth programs...cause if you can catch'em young...well you might have them for life.

State Championships don't directly generate new shooters. THIS is an idea we have to get over as a whole. 

Its a State Championship. It should be a place where a shooter, if they feel so involved, can go an attempt to prove their skills to the GA state archery community as a whole. 

You drive up attendance to state shoots by boosting the memberships of the small clubs that host them...(now I know someone is going to argue this point with me I can feel it coming...I add simply this--If you don't attempt a bid on a State shoot as a benefit to your club, in order to generate new dollars that can be used to promote the sport in your area. Then...you have no right to complain if someone else jumps on a shoot because they do see the benefit of those dollars for their club. Furthermore I feel this is why the tournaments rotate. So no one area constantly benefits. Helping to spread the weath..so to speak..around the state to promote the sport.)

SOY programs alone are not going to incite more attendance. We have to think smaller than that, if we want to "benefit" archery across the state...the smallest of this is simply... 

"Hey man. I know you love to shoot, your always here at the range/ or at the shop / or I know you own a bow...Why don't you attend a 3-D's/ Target rounds? Just for fun...see if you like it."


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## bowsmith

ScarletArrows said:


> (Which is a result of how bids for GBAA shoots are conducted...Only one shoot bid upon by an ATL area club...That shoot was held by that club last year and when another club bids against it...it must move via GBAA bylaws.)



I have trouble reading.  Can someone point me to the section in the bylaws where it says that anything other than the State Field are awarded on a rotational basis?  I've been told numerous times that it is in the bylaws, but where?


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## GRIV

BlackArcher said:


> So Please what is the agreed upon plan to grow target archery in the state of GA?



Nothing is agreed upon. In my life of archery working closely with many organizations, it's rare and it's usually never unanimous. 



BlackArcher said:


> Please be Clear, state what is relevant, What is your logic does these ideas make sense?



It's clear we need ideas and motivated action to increase participation in GA target archery. The whole thread has been around the bush and back, but my original point was we need strive to host tournaments in areas that are most likely to gather the highest numbers of participation. Once they have reached the point of "must shoot" tournaments, they could be moved anywhere. 



BlackArcher said:


> What are the significance of these ideas  and their implications?



At the risk of being redundant I think the significance is the health of target archery in GA. Growth is important. The implications of putting convenience/overall fairness over attendance could mean further stagnation. 



BlackArcher said:


> Are these ideas approached with fairness to all involved?



No new ideas have been implemented yet so fairness to all can't be measured, nor do I think it's totally possible. Someone somewhere is going to feel left out. I could say that it isn't fair that pro's can't shoot for the roving trophies in GBAA. I could say that it isn't fair that I have a family and have to work so I can't run all over the country and shoot the required number of shoots to make the World Cup Team. I would LOVE to do that, but I can't. I have to watch it on ESPN3 like everybody else. I wish there was a perfect solution. We can't kill the patient to cure the disease either. That's why I think this deserves a good talk and plenty of consideration. 

This thread and a few others devolved into bickering, pomp, and puffery. We totally lost the entire point of the discussion. I'm not trying to boo anyone here. I'm trying to have a little dialog. If everything is fine just as it is and we are happy with archery in GA (see my list of questions a couple pages back), then thats cool. I don't have the power to change anything unless we can get the people who do to talk about it. 

I don't know everything and don't mean to put across that I have the only answer to fostering growth in the state. It's just one idea. I'm just hoping to try something. If it doesn't work, we can try something else.


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