# Santa Claus lies



## blindhog (Dec 26, 2006)

How many of you christians believe God's command not to tell lies?

How do you justify telling your children the santa lie?  (if you do)

A lie is a lie.


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## dixie (Dec 26, 2006)

Blind, do you believe the Lord Jesus spoke in parables to get his point across?  I compare the fables of Santa to teach children about love and sharing the same as the parables the Lord used to make his point with.


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## THREEJAYS (Dec 26, 2006)

dixie said:


> Blind, do you believe the Lord Jesus spoke in parables to get his point across?  I compare the fables of Santa to teach children about love and sharing the same as the parables the Lord used to make his point with.



Well put.You know in Rev. it says there will be no liars in heaven.I believe we are all in trouble, I don't know anyone that can say they have never stretched the truth.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Dec 26, 2006)




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## toddboucher (Dec 26, 2006)

Our son is 18months now, we are praying and talking about this. I looked up the story of St. Nick, I'll tell him how the myth grew. I have 2 problems.
1) I want to tell him the truth- so he can trust what I teach him about Jesus.
2) But I don't want him to destory the time of Santa for other kids, really we are not sure yet.

We plan on teaching him about Christ and also explaining about St. Nick who I read gave toys to poor kids on Christmas. Any help would be great!!, or should I just go with the myth, untill the mythbusters sloves the problem, I love that show.


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Dec 26, 2006)

blindhog said:


> How many of you christians believe God's command not to tell lies?
> 
> How do you justify telling your children the santa lie?  (if you do)
> 
> A lie is a lie.



So do you tell a three year old where babies come from and how they are born?

"the santa lie"? ... get a life


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## Twenty five ought six (Dec 26, 2006)

> A lie is a lie.



If by that you mean "all statements that are not literally correct" are lies, then as a matter of formal logic, you are correct.


The Ninth Commandment says the we should not bear false witness against our neighbor.  Telling a child about Santa Clause hardly violates this Commandment.

The problem with an absolutist approach such as "A lie is a lie" is that it ignores the moral and ethical component of most of the Commandments, and such a pronouncement attempts to relieve the individual to accept the personal responsiblity for making those decisions.

The entire Jewish faith and Christianity are based on a lie.  It wasn't even a very subtle one, or a lie of omission, but a direct intentional statement made for the purpose of deception. 

There will be plenty of room in heaven if there are no liars.


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## CAL (Dec 26, 2006)

I think most of the problems children and adults too have goes back to their childhood and their raising.Were we not to be children,think as children,and act as children,looks like God would have put us here as adults.I can see no harm in Santa Clause,the Easter bunny,or the Tooth Fairy for that matter.We are dealing with a child and a child's mind not adults.
The Bible speaks of being a child and acting as a child, when we become adults to put away childish things.Is Santa Clause not a childish thing and being a child?


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## Nicodemus (Dec 26, 2006)

CAL said:


> I think most of the problems children and adults too have goes back to their childhood and their raising.Were we not to be children,think as children,and act as children,looks like God would have put us here as adults.I can see no harm in Santa Clause,the Easter bunny,or the Tooth Fairy for that matter.We are dealing with a child and a child's mind not adults.
> The Bible speaks of being a child and acting as a child, when we become adults to put away childish things.Is Santa Clause not a childish thing and being a child?



AMEN Brother Alex!!! 

Let em be children and enjoy em while you can. They grow way too fast!!


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## Twenty five ought six (Dec 26, 2006)

> Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.



Thank you


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## blindhog (Dec 26, 2006)

I figured as much......


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## Swamprat (Dec 26, 2006)

nicodemus said:


> AMEN Brother Alex!!!
> 
> Let em be children and enjoy em while you can. They grow way too fast!!



Excactly. Just like us we found out the truth as time went on and I don't think it scarred any of us. It is part of growing up.


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## Joe Moran (Dec 26, 2006)

Kicking that dead horse!

Santa is the man!

No harm in it. Anyone who deprives their children of it, should really think about what they have done.
Don't want their kids to believe, but don't want their children to "ruin" it for anyone else . Makes alot of sense.

The folks that tell their kids up front, I wonder, did their folks let them believe?
If so, are their folks condemned to eternal ****ation?
Did it scar you in some way?

I'm always happy to hear about people finding the Lord, but when folks get fanatical...


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## Craig Knight (Dec 26, 2006)

blindhog said:


> How many of you christians believe God's command not to tell lies?
> 
> How do you justify telling your children the santa lie?  (if you do)
> 
> A lie is a lie.



I take it you live a completely honest and upstanding life with no lies at all. ..... Man some people just dont know what they should really be worrying about


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## blindhog (Dec 26, 2006)

I have never claimed to be perfect, although telling lies blatantly is not my habit.

But I'll say I'm not disappointed in my expectation of the rationalization of a worldly tradition...the downright anger ....

Where in scripture does it say "little white lies are OK?"

I am not trying to project a holier than thou attitude.  But it seems everyone likes to draw their own line of where obedience should stop and start.


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## THREEJAYS (Dec 26, 2006)

blindhog said:


> I have never claimed to be perfect, although telling lies blatantly is not my habit.
> 
> But I'll say I'm not disappointed in my expectation of the rationalization of a worldly tradition...the downright anger ....
> 
> ...



It's always been this way,that's why for me I'm glad that God will be the only judge.


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## matthewsman (Dec 26, 2006)

*I*

I envy the person whose life is in good shape that the only negative thing their child could ever hold against them is the fact that Santa wasn't real.........


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## CAL (Dec 26, 2006)

Now Matthewsman,nobody ever told me Santa wasn't real.Fact is,I told my children(one 39 and the other 35)as long as they believe there would be a Santa.When they stopped it was all over with.That is all I ever told them so many years ago.

CHRISTMAS......Singing Christmas Carols,remembering the birth of Jesus,the Manger Scene,special food,sharing with the neighbors,helping those less fortunate,cold weather,smelling cedar from the Christmas tree,wrapping presents,watching the childrens eyes twinkle with excitement,visiting with friends and family,decorating for the season,enjoying your grandchildren,and last but not least being Santa Clause.


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## blindhog (Dec 26, 2006)

The issue of what God's will is in this subject has been excluded.  I have seen explanations why it is the individual's will.

What is His will concerning the fibb of SClaus?  What can we learn from scriptures?


Why believe in Santa?  Does this edify the gospel of Jesus Christ?


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## blindhog (Dec 26, 2006)

Craig Knight said:


> I take it you live a completely honest and upstanding life with no lies at all. ..... Man some people just dont know what they should really be worrying about



I am not worrying, just examining a man made tradition in light of the will of God.
I am asking fellow christians about this, and why one would continue to do such.


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## CAL (Dec 26, 2006)

Blind,
Why not?What can Santa hurt in a childs mind?What has it ever hurt?

A childs world is different from an adults.Why not let a child be just that.Children become adults soon enough!


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## matthewsman (Dec 26, 2006)

*I haven't seen much in the scriptures regarding santa*



blindhog said:


> The issue of what God's will is in this subject has been excluded.  I have seen explanations why it is the individual's will.
> 
> What is His will concerning the fibb of SClaus?  What can we learn from scriptures?
> 
> ...



I haven't seen much in the the scriptures regarding Santa...

I have seen plenty that indicates that I  personally spend too much time working,shooting,hunting,reading fiction,over sleeping,over eating,and watching tv.All of these things take away from time I could spend in devotion,study or witnessing....

While I may be held accountable for many of these,and am under conviction regarding them,I can honestly say I have no conviction against the traditions my family currently embraces at Christmas....

I would suggest that those whose biggest theological soapbox is instructing other believers on the perils of eternal destruction from the evils of Santa,are missing bigger opportunities and shortcomings that are prevalent in all of our lives,and that are a greater danger to our salvation and much more harmful to our witness.......

I challenge you ..............Whose witness would be better received.....Someone railing madly some deep theological teaching about the various "Christian" holidays that have secular roots? Or members of a Sunday school class/group of co-workerse/Boy Scouts that see a need on a "Angel tree"(or other such device)and use the season to show their compassion and love for fellow men....?

As far as these holidaysI think it is an incredible witness to God and the influence of the earlier saints that holidays that were pagan and used to worship other entities for many generations, are now used to glorify God.........

I don't need santa or a tree to show my family they are cared for,or to minister to their needs,but it is one of the ways I do it.........


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## Twenty five ought six (Dec 26, 2006)

> What is His will concerning the fibb of SClaus? What can we learn from scriptures?



Well, why do we adults tell fibb (sic) to  other that Jesus' birthday is December 25, when we all know that it is not.  What is God's will about that?

In fact, how do we know that it is God's will that we even celebrate Christmas.  I don't find any mention of the Biblical authors celebrating Christmas.



> Why believe in Santa? Does this edify the gospel of Jesus Christ?



Why indeed.  What about our Christmas celebration edifies the Gospel.  Most of our Christmas symbols have a clear pagan origin.  Somehow, I have to believe in a God that is great enough to not get too concerned that I have a sprig of mistletoe, or that I tell an innocent child that there is a Santa Claus.


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## elfiii (Dec 26, 2006)

Good grief!


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## Flash (Dec 26, 2006)

Wife: "Honey does this dress look good on me?"

 Husband: ______________


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## THREEJAYS (Dec 26, 2006)

Flash said:


> Wife: "Honey does this dress look good on me?"
> 
> Husband: ______________



Is that anything like  YES/NO


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## Flash (Dec 26, 2006)

THREEJAYS said:


> Is that anything like  YES/NO



 You gonna lie or not???


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## LJay (Dec 26, 2006)

Flash said:


> You gonna lie or not???


Lie or Die!!!


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## THREEJAYS (Dec 26, 2006)

LJay said:


> Lie or Die!!!



I think I'll just go with --------OR---------


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## blindhog (Dec 27, 2006)

Flash said:


> Wife: "Honey does this dress look good on me?"
> 
> Husband: ______________



Now that's funny..


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## blindhog (Dec 27, 2006)

matthewsman said:


> I haven't seen much in the the scriptures regarding Santa...
> 
> I have seen plenty that indicates that I  personally spend too much time working,shooting,hunting,reading fiction,over sleeping,over eating,and watching tv.All of these things take away from time I could spend in devotion,study or witnessing....
> 
> ...




No soapbox here.  Not railing madly.  But I see anger is rising to the surface when a loved man made tradition is brought to light of truth.

Christmas as a whole examined in the light of God's Will , will be found wanting.
Full of paganistic customs mixed with the worship of Jesus.
Can you find God's will on such in the scriptures?  I think so.

"Learn not their ways"


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## 270win (Dec 30, 2006)

blindhog said:


> Christmas as a whole examined in the light of God's Will , will be found wanting.
> Full of paganistic customs mixed with the worship of Jesus......



That's true.  

We played the Santa Claus "game" until our oldest (6-1/2) started asking questions about Santa being equal to God.  Remember the song? "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake..."?  That one really confused her because we have been teaching her that ONLY God knows everything we do think and say.  When she flat out asked us if Santa was all-knowing like God we decided that was enough.  We explained who St. Nick really was and how we carry on his tradition and how people mix that with celebrating the birth of Christ.   She was even more excited about Christmas this year...

Regarding her not telling other children-
We told her that many people play the Santa Claus game and that it's not her place to tell other children that he isn't a real person that is alive today.  When people asked her what she was getting from Santa she just told them what she had asked for.

Having said all that-
If she asks me how babies are made I won't tell her the way that REALLY happens.  She's 6 for cryin' out loud!  If that makes me a liar then I'm sure the grace of God and the blood of Christ are powerful enough to forgive my sins...  We must use discretion in how we speak the truth.  Remember Jesus' warning about causing one of His little ones to stumble?

Be blessed...
270win


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## 60Grit (Dec 30, 2006)

blindhog said:


> I am not worrying, just examining a man made tradition in light of the will of God.
> I am asking fellow christians about this, and why one would continue to do such.


 
If the Santa issue is laying that big a conviction on your heart, then I suggest you spend some time with a professional counselor. 

You obviously have deeper rooted problems that you have failed to deal with.


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## Baby Bear (Dec 30, 2006)

*Santa vs. Jesus*

The issue that my wife and I were having is that the childern were ungreatful, thinking that what ever they ask for that they should receive. (and I know I am putting my self in a vulnerable position for an attack here about the raising of our kids buts that is ok if you think you can do better then step right up and let it be known) 

Our daughter is 9 and our son is 5. My wife was saved about 14 years ago and I was saved about 25 years ago but we have not been living in God's will until this past year, or at least trying to.

I wanted to tell them the truth about Santa and she didn't, and after Christmas the kids just kept hammering us with questions until she finally looked at me and said let's tell them. Not only was it a relief, but when they found out they realized that we had been spending alot of money on them and were much more greatful, knowing what mom and dad had done. 

This is the kicker though and to me and my wife made it all worth while. Our daughter said now I know why ya'll wanted us to help out the childern whose mom or dad is in jail because they may not have a good Christmas. 

As an end result we told them that God want's us to share our love for one another and next year we ask them if they would take a couple of toys off of their list to help out other childern? Our daughter immediately said "yes" and our boy after a momemt of carefull thinking(remember he is 5) said "yeah dad I would like to do it too."

Bottom line I don't think you will go to burn for eternity if you celebrate with Santa, but I sure am glad that we have removed that aspect from our Christmas celebrations.


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## Sugar Hill Scouter (Dec 30, 2006)

Blindhog, I see from your profile that you are 50 yrs. old. 
Do you have children? If so, did you tell them straight up, right off the bat, NO Santa ??
Just curious to know where you're coming from...


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## Tn_Extreme (Dec 30, 2006)

scooter1 said:


> If the Santa issue is laying that big a conviction on your heart, then I suggest you spend some time with a professional counselor.
> 
> You obviously have deeper rooted problems that you have failed to deal with.




Wow!!.......I didnt know Scooter was a Psychiatrist.

Blindhog...I agree with you 100%...It just goes to show why today's church is in such a shaky, apostate, state.  Church members and self proclaimed Christians hate the truth.  The Bible says it wwill come to this when the end gets closer and closer.  It is evident in this thread and others. They will argue with God's word to hold on to vain traditions and lies they have accepted that is contrary to God's word.


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## 60Grit (Dec 30, 2006)

Tn_Extreme said:


> Wow!!.......I didnt know Scooter was a Psychiatrist.
> 
> Blindhog...I agree with you 100%...It just goes to show why today's church is in such a shaky, apostate, state. Church members and self proclaimed Christians hate the truth. The Bible says it wwill come to this when the end gets closer and closer. It is evident in this thread and others. They will argue with God's word to hold on to vain traditions and lies they have accepted that is contrary to God's word.


 
Wow, if I were a psychiatrist I would have made a prognosis, instead of a recommendation.

There are plenty of things in this world to worry about, whether or not you are lying in the eyes of god for perpetuating a symbol of good will is not at the top of the list.

NOW, that being said, if you or others associate Santa Claus with the materialistic, retail side of Christmas then I can see your dilemma, however that was and never has been the story behind St. Nick.

TN, with your knowledge and conviction you need to be in other countries trying to save the world. Somallia sounds like a good place to start. Why don't you give it a shot.


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## 270win (Dec 30, 2006)

I just remembered why I haven't been on this board for a while...


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## Tn_Extreme (Dec 30, 2006)

scooter1 said:


> TN, with your knowledge and conviction you need to be in other countries trying to save the world. Somallia sounds like a good place to start. Why don't you give it a shot.



After reading some of these threads and seeing what professing church members believe and accept as "Gospel" I would say we need to start in our own churches and get them saved before sending men and money to Somalia.


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## Branchminnow (Dec 30, 2006)

No. GA. Mt. Man said:


>


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## blindhog (Dec 30, 2006)

scooter 1 you have stated your opinion which is sorely unsubstantiated with scripture, therefore inept in this thread.

Sugar Hill Scouter I admit we did the Santa thang with our 2 kids.  That was before praying  fervently that I be led to "worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH",  God answered the prayer.
This answer from Him has put me on what some call a "radical" path.

Tn_Extreme, brother I think you understand.


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## 60Grit (Dec 30, 2006)

blindhog said:


> scooter 1 you have stated your opinion which is sorely unsubstantiated with scripture, therefore inept in this thread.
> 
> Sugar Hill Scouter I admit we did the Santa thang with our 2 kids. That was before praying fervently that I be led to "worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH", God answered the prayer.
> This answer from Him has put me on what some call a "radical" path.
> ...


 

Boy that stung......I'm crushed.

Here's one for you scripture mongers, especially since your lives are lived by the letter of the scripture with no variable allowances what so ever;

*Isaiah 66:16-18 *



 16 For with fire and with his sword 
       the LORD will execute judgment upon all men, 
       and many will be those slain by the LORD. 

 17 "Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [a] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together," declares the LORD. 

 18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come * and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.*


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## blindhog (Dec 30, 2006)

You present a "straw man" for your answers.


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## Tn_Extreme (Dec 30, 2006)

And what is your point by using that scripture??

 Do you not understand  what he is saying by using those words??

All they are syaing is those who seek salvation in the religeous abominations of man shall be "consumed together".  The relogeon of the last days  is described as an "abomination".  Because God knows both their works and their thoughts he will sme in furious judgement upon them. At the same time while he is doing this he will also gather all the nations and various toungues together.

I dont really understand where you were going with this but it is obvious it backfired.


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## 60Grit (Dec 30, 2006)

blindhog said:


> You present a "straw man" for your answers.


 
Preach on oh self righteous one, I feed one your condemnation, your insults and your judgements.

*2 Corinthians 12:9-11 
*

9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.


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## Baby Bear (Dec 30, 2006)

*Confused*

Do youever get the feeling when reading some of the posts here that someone else is reading in a different chapter in a different book when making their comments?


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## Flintlock1776 (Dec 30, 2006)

*Please*



blindhog said:


> How many of you christians believe God's command not to tell lies?
> 
> How do you justify telling your children the santa lie?  (if you do)
> 
> A lie is a lie.



What's your problem?


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## elfiii (Dec 30, 2006)

Jeff Squires said:


> Do youever get the feeling when reading some of the posts here that someone else is reading in a different chapter in a different book when making their comments?



No, but I get the distinct impression there are some who think they know more about salvation than they actually do.


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## Branchminnow (Dec 30, 2006)

elfiii said:


> No, but I get the distinct impression there are some who think they know more about salvation than they actually do.



What was it one of our old members said????


Was'nt it "TROLLS"????


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## Twenty five ought six (Dec 31, 2006)

> How do you justify telling your children the santa lie? (if you do)
> 
> A lie is a lie.



So when your child asks "where do babies come from", which they will do without fail between 4 and 6 years old, you explain to them exactly how what is inserted where and when and why and then what happens 9 months later more or less, with all the screaming and mess and what not, (unless of course you interfere with God's special vengance on woman with an epidural) and we're not talking about putting "daddy's seed in mommy's garden".

To say that "a lie is a lie" is just another abdication of personal responsibility by trying to apply some cookie cutter dogma that absolves you of indpendent thought.  So when someone asks you "how you doing" and you feel like dog droppings, you _really _think that you commit a sin by saying"ok", rather than launching into a litany of your many ailments.  In fact the majority of the people here would find such a person a insufferable bore and whiner.


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## Tn_Extreme (Jan 1, 2007)

Are people so ignorant that they cant explain "where babies come from"without being sexually explicit and graphic?  

Come on people...We cant justify allowing our chuldren and us as well, partaking in a pagan ritual.

God is Jealous..he says so...He also says he will not be mocked.


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## blindhog (Jan 1, 2007)

It just shows instead of facing truth concerning a loved "tradition" rationalization will take over.

"See how this is really OK since we do other stuff that's wrong too?"


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## matthewsman (Jan 1, 2007)

*Just a reminder*

Just a reminder.St. Valentines day is coming soon......Don't get your wife a card or flowers..........It was named after a Saint.........


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## blindhog (Jan 1, 2007)

I DON'T.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 2, 2007)

> Are people so ignorant that they cant explain "where babies come from"without being sexually explicit and graphic?



What's wrong with being sexually explicit?  After all that is telling the truth isn't it.  Are you suggesting that there are different degrees of truthfullness.  Hmmmmm.    

Or is there something wrong with being sexually explicit?  I mean that is how God made us, and he gave us directions to use the equipment provided in the manner intended.  So what I'm hearing you saying is that there is something wrong with exlaining to a child the miracle of God's handiwork in the human body, and the reproductive process.

Tn, ny man, you sort of dodged the question there.  Give us an example of how you explain "where babies come from" being totally truthful, but not being "sexually explicit" or "graphic", and follow up with why we shouldn't be sexually explicit or graphic, if its the TRUTH.


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## reylamb (Jan 2, 2007)

Twenty five ought six said:


> What's wrong with being sexually explicit?  After all that is telling the truth isn't it.  Are you suggesting that there are different degrees of truthfullness.  Hmmmmm.
> 
> Or is there something wrong with being sexually explicit?  I mean that is how God made us, and he gave us directions to use the equipment provided in the manner intended.  So what I'm hearing you saying is that there is something wrong with exlaining to a child the miracle of God's handiwork in the human body, and the reproductive process.
> 
> Tn, ny man, you sort of dodged the question there.  Give us an example of how you explain "where babies come from" being totally truthful, but not being "sexually explicit" or "graphic", and follow up with why we shouldn't be sexually explicit or graphic, if its the TRUTH.



A simple, "your mother or I will explain it when you are old enough to understand", is simple enough and still not lying.


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## matthewsman (Jan 2, 2007)

*???*

And mommy's got a baby in her stomach and you will be a big brother soon(not in her stomach).........God doesn't like it when you lie.........(God doesn't care while they are still under the age of accountability......).eat all your food and you'll grow big and strong.(maybe not,depending on genes).............

There are plenty of truths half told and many truths twisted in the raising of children.......

I can't believe that the anti-santa crowd can justify the time spent on woodys or out hunting as glorifying God.....Seems you should be doing something more "spiritually" minded?


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 2, 2007)

matthewsman said:


> God doesn't like it when you lie.........(God doesn't care while they are still under the age of accountability......)




Ummmm.... ok....   
Exactly when is the 'age of accountability' (verse?)

And how do you explain that to your kid? On the birthday of the 'age of accountability", do you tell them, 'look, God didn't care if you lied before, but now that you're (insert magic age here) years old, He does care, so you can't lie anymore.  Happy Birthday." 

I thought I'd heard it all, but that's a new one even to me   

Of course, I do remember you posting in a few other threads that it's ok to lie, if you have a good reason.... so I guess that's just par for the course?


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## matthewsman (Jan 2, 2007)

*It's a Christian thing*



Dixie Dawg said:


> Ummmm.... ok....
> Exactly when is the 'age of accountability' (verse?)
> 
> And how do you explain that to your kid? On the birthday of the 'age of accountability", do you tell them, 'look, God didn't care if you lied before, but now that you're (insert magic age here) years old, He does care, so you can't lie anymore.  Happy Birthday."
> ...



It's a Christian thing,you wouldn't understand...........Or if you did you would quote Rabbi after Rabbi and unrelated arcticles from psuedo scolars you have been acquainted with through the web, convoluting their thoughts  and presenting them with prejudicial views against Christianity that linger from your involvement with Jehovahs witnesses,or whatever "religion of the month club" you are currently espousing the merits of.....


It has to do with Grace and forgiveness and the innocence of children not requiring salvation in the same manner required of adults.......

We'll be anxiously awaiting your insight here into how wrong we are and how the Jewish faith that you,ironically don't believe enough to join,is the one true way.The fact that it is offered to Jews is obviously lost on you,and somehow you can't see how we embrace what was given to us as Gentiles......

You have most of us here on the verge of converting,so please don't give up hope and please keep popping back in to remind us all of our ignorance and hypocrisy....

Shalom, enlightened one.......


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 2, 2007)

> A simple, "your mother or I will explain it when you are old enough to understand", is simple enough and still not lying.



Wow, I'm learning a lot on moral inexactudes.  So its o.k. to make an evasive, non-responsive answer, as long  its not a lie.  So one is not required to tell the truth, as long as one doesn't lie.  So Dad was wrong when he taught us that "not telling the truth is just as bad as telling a lie".


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 2, 2007)

matthewsman said:


> It's a Christian thing,you wouldn't understand...........Or if you did you would quote Rabbi after Rabbi and unrelated arcticles from psuedo scolars you have been acquainted with through the web, convoluting their thoughts  and presenting them with prejudicial views against Christianity that linger from your involvement with Jehovahs witnesses,or whatever "religion of the month club" you are currently espousing the merits of.....
> 
> 
> It has to do with Grace and forgiveness and the innocence of children not requiring salvation in the same manner required of adults.......
> ...



Pretty long explanation for "I don't know."   

As far as me believing enough to 'become Jewish"... well I guess that again must be a "Christian" thing.  See, I read enough of the bible and know enough to realize that being Jewish is not just a religion, it's a culture. Converting to Judaism is more than just believing in their religion, it is accepting an entire history of  a people.  Which is one of many reasons they don't missionize or require people to convert to Judaism. In fact, they discourage it.  But you wouldn't know that, because Christians don't care... they just want Jews to convert.

It would somewhat be like you deciding to become African American.  Or how about Hispanic.  

And for the record, I never said that Judaism is the 'one true way'.

And I've gotta tell ya... most of you have me on the verge of returning to Christianity, so please, don't give up hope and please keep reminding me of how when you're a Christian, you are allowed to do whatever sin you want, regardless of what the scriptures you believe in say... just using the excuse that Jesus paid for your sins already.....


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## Tn_Extreme (Jan 2, 2007)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Wow, I'm learning a lot on moral inexactudes.  So its o.k. to make an evasive, non-responsive answer, as long  its not a lie.  So one is not required to tell the truth, as long as one doesn't lie.  So Dad was wrong when he taught us that "not telling the truth is just as bad as telling a lie".



25...

Your debating apples and oranges...You are trying to equivicate(is that a word?) telling your children about the birds and the bees, with allowing them to believe and participate in a Pagan abomination before God.

BIG difference.

Like I said earlier...My daughter is 9 years old..She knows where babies come from and how they are formed... My wife and myself idint graphically explain the sex act it takes to make one but seeing she has been raised on a farm I am sure her little mind has put 2 and 2 together.


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## elfiii (Jan 2, 2007)

Ya'll ain't got Santy Claus killed off yet? You been at it for over a week now.


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## CAL (Jan 2, 2007)

Nobody has answered my question yet so I will post it again.

Why not believe in Santa?What has Santa ever done to a child's mind?What has believing in Santa ever done to hurt anyone?

Now,come on Santa haters and give us some facts that we need to prove ole Santa is wrong and believing in him is wrong.I really believed until I was about 10.Believed in the Easter bunny and the Tooth Fairy too.

Even Webster's Universal College Dictionary recognizes Santa Clause,Easter eggs,and the Tooth Fairy.That dictionary must be wrong on all three counts.Never could trust a dictionary!

We keep on working at it elfiii,we gonna tar and feather that scoundrel for sure.keep checking back!


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## Sugar Hill Scouter (Jan 2, 2007)




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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 2, 2007)

> participate in a Pagan abomination before God.



Well, now there you go, you're getting overwrought.  Of the many Christmas traditions, tree, candles, mistletoe, evergreen wreaths, even the date, Santa Claus is uniquely Christian in origin, and has no clear pagan roots.

BTW you do explain to your child that Christmas Day has no biblical basis at all, and was originally a pagan holiday where our ancestors ran around building bonfires and beating drums trying to get the dying sun to return. 

Christmas Day has  a direct Pagan connection, which is well recognized and documented.

Anyway, I don't want to let a few facts get in the way a your rant, but, neighbor, I truly feel pity for anyone who honestly believes that Santa Claus is a "a Pagan abomination before God".  Your God is certainly one of petty causes and insignifcant issues.


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## Tn_Extreme (Jan 2, 2007)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Your God is certainly one of petty causes and insignifcant issues.



My God is a JEALOUS God who says he wont accept our foolishness.  Do you actually believe he accpets and honors our vain attenots to tie the birth of his son in with a holiday that had pagan roots?? If so I urge you to go back and read the BIble some.  

Imagine if God took such a lackadasical approach towards us as we did serving him.

Very discouraging


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 3, 2007)

> If so I urge you to go back and read the BIble some.



So what should I read.  Other than the account of Jesus's birth, I don't see that the Bible has much to say about it one way or another.

Are you telling me now that you nor anyone in your household celebrates Christmas at all (or at least in the traditional timeframe).



> My God is a JEALOUS God who says he wont accept our foolishness.


  So of who is he jealous?  Santa Claus?  



> Do you actually believe he accpets and honors our vain attenots to tie the birth of his son in with a holiday that had pagan roots??


 What I believe is that He is much more concerned with our inner hearts and minds, and how we obey His commandments, and that how, or even whether, we honor the birth of His child is of little concern.  Nothing about Christmas or the birth of Christ is part of any of the sacrements of the Christian faith, so somebody (or Somebody) must thought that overall it wasn't too important.

I'm curious, now that you have agreed that the current Christmas date is clearly of pagan origin ( I believe I was the first to raise that issue), just how did you spend the day?  I take it you didn't allow your child to participate in the great Pagan abomination decorating (or even having) a tree (fertilty symbol, don't you know), or by exchanging gifts, or hanging stockings, or God forbid, leaving some cookies and milk for the Great Sata, I mean Santa.

Also, given that this discussion was supposed to be about the great Satanic Santa Claus "lie", I have to note you didn't address my assertion that Santa is probably the one singular non-pagan Christian symbol of Christmas.


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## blindhog (Jan 3, 2007)

You guys are all grown-ups, I assume, and computer savvy.  Also get a concordance and start a search about the origins of christmas.  There is a truckload of truth to find if your really wanting to find the TRUTH.

But....if you want to keep clinging to your "traditions" without question.....don't read these threads....


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## HuntinTom (Jan 3, 2007)

blindhog said:


> But....if you want to keep clinging to your "traditions" without question.....don't read these threads....


Sadly, because of the, albeit, well meaning, yet overly dogmatic attempts of convincing, only about a half dozen are left who are actually reading the thread...  With another dozen or so simply watching the train wreck   Some of you are simply _talking to yourselves_ at this point of the debate...


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## blindhog (Jan 3, 2007)

Hey....you're still here...so we not only talking to ourselves...


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## HuntinTom (Jan 3, 2007)

Take my word for it...  You are.  I'm just here to moderate.    If it weren't for the great pay and Woody's condo at the beach I'd let somebody else worry with it


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## blindhog (Jan 3, 2007)

HuntinTom said:


> Take my word for it...  You are.  I'm just here to moderate.    If it weren't for the great pay and Woody's condo at the beach I'd let somebody else worry with it




Those are great fringes....any openings?


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 3, 2007)

HuntinTom said:


> Take my word for it...  You are.  I'm just here to moderate.    If it weren't for the great pay and Woody's condo at the beach I'd let somebody else worry with it



Glad you are still around HT ,kinda makes you feel for what Mose's had to deal with.


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## NUTT (Jan 8, 2007)

God please forgive me for lying to my children. I must say that I have enjoyed being Santa for many years now. A sin is a sin is a sin! I bet you guys that don't like the Santa lie don't tell your wives when you have that lustful thought every now and then. So what is the different? Everyone sins and everyone who calls on the name of JESUS and becomes SAVED will be forgiven. Surely you can find a way to better use your time to glorify the Lord than bash SANTA CLAUS.......NUTT


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## Joe Moran (Jan 8, 2007)

NUTT said:


> A sin is a sin is a sin! I bet you guys that don't like the Santa lie don't tell your wives when you have that lustful thought every now and then.


 
I wonder. These guys would probably cut off a body part if they ever had a lustful thought.


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## BKA (Jan 9, 2007)

What about the Easter Bunny!?!?!  He's a trouble make too!

And the Tooth Fairy, I won't even touch that one.


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## blindhog (Jan 9, 2007)

TRUTH is not welcome on this board. And the rules are not applied equally from my viewpoint.


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## BKA (Jan 9, 2007)

blindhog said:


> TRUTH is not welcome on this board. And the rules are not applied equally from my viewpoint.



Say what????


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## PWalls (Jan 10, 2007)

blindhog said:


> TRUTH is not welcome on this board. And the rules are not applied equally from my viewpoint.



From what I have read over the years, I disagree. I think truth is welcome. There are some that disagree with the truth, yes. But no one prevents anyone from saying the truth. What is prevented is the zealous way some people feel they have to present it. Take recent events for example. I had no problem with Tn_Extreme's message and liked reading what he said. However, his method or manner in which he expressed the truth did not have much love in it. Some may disagree, but that is how I see it. I have hopes that the mods will give him a reprieve shortly and let him post again in this forum because I agree with the truth in his posts. There are a few others who are just as passionate about the truth and I enjoy their posts as well as long as the manner in which it is presented is in love. There are ways for example of refuting some doctrines of other religions without referring to them as "the great *****" and such especially remembering that the people who still follow that religion are God's children (or can be) as well who will not accept sometimes the truth or reproof if they are attacked constantly. Reason and love should prevail.


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## reylamb (Jan 10, 2007)

PWalls said:


> From what I have read over the years, I disagree. I think truth is welcome. There are some that disagree with the truth, yes. But no one prevents anyone from saying the truth. What is prevented is the zealous way some people feel they have to present it. Take recent events for example. I had no problem with Tn_Extreme's message and liked reading what he said. However, his method or manner in which he expressed the truth did not have much love in it. Some may disagree, but that is how I see it. I have hopes that the mods will give him a reprieve shortly and let him post again in this forum because I agree with the truth in his posts. There are a few others who are just as passionate about the truth and I enjoy their posts as well as long as the manner in which it is presented is in love. There are ways for example of refuting some doctrines of other religions without referring to them as "the great *****" and such especially remembering that the people who still follow that religion are God's children (or can be) as well who will not accept sometimes the truth or reproof if they are attacked constantly. Reason and love should prevail.


I have used this analogy on previous boards before talking about what you just said.  If there is a fly on your window you could kill it with a shotgun, hit it with a sledgehammer, or kill it with a flyswatter, all of which will kill the fly, but 2 of those choices have other reprecussions.  Why use the shotgun or sledgehammer when a flyswatter will suffice?


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## brian chambers (Jan 10, 2007)

santas watching you


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