# Shoal Bass



## BOZ (May 21, 2017)

After several hours on the river and only a couple small fish to show it for it I decided to switch things up. I'm glad I did because it landed me my first 20'' shoal bass. She was spawned out and hungry. I cant begin to explain how proud I am of this fish. I have come very close before having three shoalies over 18'' to my name for the year, but I finally got her. She was right where she was supposed to be...


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## ChristopherA.King (May 21, 2017)

Awesome!! Congratulations


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## BOZ (May 21, 2017)

ChristopherA.King said:


> Awesome!! Congratulations


Thank you!


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## fish hawk (May 21, 2017)

Congratulations Boz,great shoalie!!!


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## BOZ (May 21, 2017)

fish hawk said:


> Congratulations Boz,great shoalie!!!


Thank you sir!


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## Katalee (May 21, 2017)

Nice


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## 61BelAir (May 22, 2017)

Congrats.   I see you're from Athens.  Was this on the Oconee?


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## BOZ (May 22, 2017)

61BelAir said:


> Congrats.   I see you're from Athens.  Was this on the Oconee?



Thanks BelAir. I actually caught her on the Chattahoochee. The Oconee isn't in the Shoal bass's natural range. Makes me wonder though. If they can make it in the Ocmulgee then maybe they could in the Oconee.


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## 61BelAir (May 22, 2017)

I'm sure they could make it in the Oconee, but like you said they aren't supposed to be in there.....that's why I'd asked.  I've got to invest in some of that lightweight UV protective clothing like you're wearing.  I don't tend to burn, but that doesn't mean I can't get cancer.  
Now that you've achieved your goal, what are you going to do next?


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## BOZ (May 23, 2017)

61BelAir said:


> I'm sure they could make it in the Oconee, but like you said they aren't supposed to be in there.....that's why I'd asked.  I've got to invest in some of that lightweight UV protective clothing like you're wearing.  I don't tend to burn, but that doesn't mean I can't get cancer.
> Now that you've achieved your goal, what are you going to do next?


 Yeah man the sun shirts are great. As far as whats next. I'm gonna keep chasing Shoalies. I love those fish.


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## jocko755 (May 24, 2017)

So I see a long rod and a baitcaster on the rocks.  Which one did you catch them with?  Fly or baitcasting?  Shoal bass are special.  Congrats.  What was the "switch things up"? that made the difference?


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## BOZ (May 24, 2017)

jocko755 said:


> So I see a long rod and a baitcaster on the rocks.  Which one did you catch them with?  Fly or baitcasting?  Shoal bass are special.  Congrats.  What was the "switch things up"? that made the difference?


Thanks. No fly rod. That's just my spinning setup. I caught her on the bait caster. I switched things up by downsizing and going to a more natural pattern...


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## JUMP2TIM (Jun 10, 2017)

Great catch. Looking forward to one of those some day. I agree about the shirts. Comfortable and don't hold heat either.


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## ShoalBandit (Jun 11, 2017)

Congrats BOZ. That's actually a Shoal x Smallmouth hybrid. Both species have vertical markings but they're very different. That fish probably has some Spotted bass genetics as well just looking at the lateral markings closer to the tail (a tooth patch would've confirmed this).

I wasn't going to say anything until somebody mentioned Shoal bass and the Oconee. The introduction of Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River led to the local extinction of the undescribed Altamaha bass. Even though the state introduced Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River (1970s) biologists at the time did not know about Altamaha bass or introgressive hybridization. Moving fish never works when other native species are already present. It's also illegal so if you know anyone moving fish you should contact the DNR.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2017)

JUMP2TIM said:


> Great catch. Looking forward to one of those some day. I agree about the shirts. Comfortable and don't hold heat either.



Thanks


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2017)

ShoalBandit said:


> Congrats BOZ. That's actually a Shoal x Smallmouth hybrid. Both species have vertical markings but they're very different. That fish probably has some Spotted bass genetics as well just looking at the lateral markings closer to the tail (a tooth patch would've confirmed this).
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything until somebody mentioned Shoal bass and the Oconee. The introduction of Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River led to the local extinction of the undescribed Altamaha bass. Even though the state introduced Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River (1970s) biologists at the time did not know about Altamaha bass or introgressive hybridization. Moving fish never works when other native species are already present. It's also illegal so if you know anyone moving fish you should contact the DNR.



It is interesting that you think this fish is shoal/small mouth hybrid. This fish was actually caught in the upper Chattahoochee River. I have never seen or heard of anyone catching a Small Mouth in this stretch of the river (been wrong before though). I could definitely see possible spotted bass hybridization (especially with fish coming north into this area from Lanier heavily). 

 I definitely don't move, and don't know anyone who is in the business of moving fish to non native waters.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2017)

ShoalBandit, I went back and looked at some photos from the trip that I thought you may want to see. I can definitely see some spot in this fish now that you have mentioned it. Thanks btw


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## 61BelAir (Jun 11, 2017)

ShoalBandit said:


> I wasn't going to say anything until somebody mentioned Shoal bass and the Oconee. The introduction of Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River led to the local extinction of the undescribed Altamaha bass. Even though the state introduced Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River (1970s) biologists at the time did not know about Altamaha bass or introgressive hybridization. Moving fish never works when other native species are already present. It's also illegal so if you know anyone moving fish you should contact the DNR.





BOZ said:


> I definitely don't move, and don't know anyone who is in the business of moving fish to non native waters.



I was the one that asked if this was on the Oconee early in the thread.  I only asked because Boz's location is shown as Athens so I thought it might have been around there.  Sorry if I caused any confusion.  
Congratulations again on a nice catch and thanks again to ShoalBandit for sharing your knowledge with everyone.


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## ShoalBandit (Jun 11, 2017)

Hey BOZ you're right Smallmouth bass have not been documented in the upper Chattahoochee River. I'm actually out of town right now looking at these on my phone and that's what the first pics looked like. I also assumed you were fishing below Morgan Falls Dam which is stupid because I see you're in Athens. 

Anyway looking at the new pics this fish has lateral markings like a Shoal x Alabama hybrid but it also has horizontal rows of dark scale spots below the lateral stripe like a Chattahoochee bass. In the first pics (from a distance) those markings resembled the mottled body coloration typically seen on Smallmouth. I can't tell for sure on my phone but it looks like there's a bluish-white crescent behind the eye which also suggests Chattahoochee genetics. I've seen and caught lots of Shoal x Alabama, Chattahoochee x Alabama, and  Chattahoochee x Alabama x Shoal hybrids up that way. When I get back I'll post some pics so you can see what I'm talking about.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2017)

ShoalBandit said:


> Hey BOZ you're right Smallmouth bass have not been documented in the upper Chattahoochee River. I'm actually out of town right now looking at these on my phone and that's what the first pics looked like. I also assumed you were fishing below Morgan Falls Dam which is stupid because I see you're in Athens.
> 
> Anyway looking at the new pics this fish has lateral markings like a Shoal x Alabama hybrid but it also has horizontal rows of dark scale spots below the lateral stripe like a Chattahoochee bass. In the first pics (from a distance) those markings resembled the mottled body coloration typically seen on Smallmouth. I can't tell for sure on my phone but it looks like there's a bluish-white crescent behind the eye which also suggests Chattahoochee genetics. I've seen and caught lots of Shoal x Alabama, Chattahoochee x Alabama, and  Chattahoochee x Alabama x Shoal hybrids up that way. When I get back I'll post some pics so you can see what I'm talking about.



Sounds good. Thanks

And no worries BelAir


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## GA BASS ODYSSEY (Jun 29, 2017)

ShoalBandit said:


> I wasn't going to say anything until somebody mentioned Shoal bass and the Oconee. The introduction of Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River led to the local extinction of the undescribed Altamaha bass. Even though the state introduced Shoal bass to the Ocmulgee River (1970s) biologists at the time did not know about Altamaha bass or introgressive hybridization. Moving fish never works when other native species are already present. It's also illegal so if you know anyone moving fish you should contact the DNR.



Aren't there Altamaha bass on the Oconee River near Athens? Are there any threats to it there?


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## ShoalBandit (Jun 30, 2017)

GA BASS ODYSSEY said:


> Aren't there Altamaha bass on the Oconee River near Athens? Are there any threats to it there?


Yes Altamaha Bass are native to the Middle and North Oconee Rivers unfortunately Alabama Bass were illegally introduced resulting in widespread hybridization between species in the Athens area.  

Altamaha Bass are also no longer found in the South, (most of the) Yellow, and Alcovy Rivers due to the illegal introduction and spread of Alabama Bass. Nonnative Shoal Bass and Alabama Bass wiped out the population in the Ocmulgee below Lake Jackson. If you want to catch a real pure Altamaha Bass there are a few places left but they're rapidly disappearing.

Altamaha Bass























Altamaha x Alabama bass hybrids














Altamaha x Shoal bass hybrid






Altamaha x Shoal x Alabama bass hybrids


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## GA BASS ODYSSEY (Oct 8, 2017)

ShoalBandit said:


> Yes Altamaha Bass are native to the Middle and North Oconee Rivers unfortunately Alabama Bass were illegally introduced resulting in widespread hybridization between species in the Athens area.
> 
> Altamaha Bass are also no longer found in the South, (most of the) Yellow, and Alcovy Rivers due to the illegal introduction and spread of Alabama Bass. Nonnative Shoal Bass and Alabama Bass wiped out the population in the Ocmulgee below Lake Jackson. If you want to catch a real pure Altamaha Bass there are a few places left but they're rapidly disappearing.



I need pure one for my bass slam. Catch and Release. I don't eat bass at all. Is it best below or above the lakes. PM me if you wouldn't mind helping me out. Thanks.


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## ShoalBandit (Oct 8, 2017)

GA BASS ODYSSEY said:


> I need pure one for my bass slam. Catch and Release. I don't eat bass at all. Is it best below or above the lakes. PM me if you wouldn't mind helping me out. Thanks.


PM sent.


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 25, 2019)

ShoalBandit said:


> Yes Altamaha Bass are native to the Middle and North Oconee Rivers unfortunately Alabama Bass were illegally introduced resulting in widespread hybridization between species in the Athens area.
> 
> Altamaha Bass are also no longer found in the South, (most of the) Yellow, and Alcovy Rivers due to the illegal introduction and spread of Alabama Bass. Nonnative Shoal Bass and Alabama Bass wiped out the population in the Ocmulgee below Lake Jackson. If you want to catch a real pure Altamaha Bass there are a few places left but they're rapidly disappearing.



Newbie here and sorry to revive an old post, but I've been catching what I believe to be Altamaha bass at Cedar Shoals in Porterdale on the Yellow River and I came across this post when doing some research. I say they are Altamaha bass because they have a lot of features of a spot, but are missing the tooth patch and are usually smaller. (around 12inches). They could very well be hybrids because they look most like this one that you shared here as a alt + spot hybrid. They guys I met on the river yesterday called them shoalies, but I'm sure they aren't shoalies as they are missing the dark spot on the tail and as far as I know there are no know introductions of shoalies north of Bartlett Shoals Dam.


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## DylanSeverens (Mar 25, 2019)

I lived in Porterdale for a couple years and caught Alabama bass almost exclusively in the area below the dam. There were a few largemouth in the slower pools and one shoal bass that someone must have transported there, but the shoals hold a good population of Alabama bass. Historically that area would have had Altamaha bass so the genetics should still be present and you may even find pure Altamaha bass in the feeder streams.

If you're looking for a place to catch Altamaha bass take a look at this interactive map (works best on a computer, not as great on a phone) and turn on the layer for Altamaha Bass Fishing locations. Good luck!
https://gadnrwrd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=360c1018b643486ea704dc1a5888c1b7


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 25, 2019)

Thanks for the info. I've definitely caught a lot of Alabama bass here and throughout the system, but a few of these fish are different. I'll try to get some good pics of them next time I'm out. I would love to know a few red-eyes are still around, but I know it's probably wishful thinking. I'm pursuing all the bass in the GA bass slam this year and will hit one of those locations on the map for Altamaha bass. Thanks again!


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 26, 2019)

CAPTHotMess said:


> Newbie here and sorry to revive an old post, but I've been catching what I believe to be Altamaha bass at Cedar Shoals in Porterdale on the Yellow River and I came across this post when doing some research. I say they are Altamaha bass because they have a lot of features of a spot, but are missing the tooth patch and are usually smaller. (around 12inches). They could very well be hybrids because they look most like this one that you shared here as a alt + spot hybrid. They guys I met on the river yesterday called them shoalies, but I'm sure they aren't shoalies as they are missing the dark spot on the tail and as far as I know there are no know introductions of shoalies north of Bartlett Shoals Dam.


Sounds like you know what to look for but Altamaha Bass typically have a tooth patch on the tongue. You can also check the caudal fin margins on those mystery fish for any kind of pigment. It can be absent or hard to see on older/larger individuals (especially if the water is cold and/or stained) but Altamaha Bass typically have some white pigment visible near the upper and lower caudal fin margins. The caudal fin lobes on genetically pure Altamaha Bass will also be more rounded like other upland species of black bass.

It'd be cool if some were there but they'd probably be living on borrowed time given the current distribution of nonnative species in that drainage. I also just want to add that the DNR has been pretty lenient with some of these bass slam submissions. I've seen a few submissions that were clearly hybrids and Alabama Bass labeled as just about everything else in social media posts. At the end of the day I think they want people to complete the bass slam so it probably doesn't matter but it's good to see some anglers like yourself care and are out looking for the real thing. BTW the Altamaha Bass is the ONLY black bass endemic to the state of Georgia. That means it's found here and nowhere else in the world.


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 27, 2019)

I went back last night without the kayak so access was limited but managed to catch one specimen similar to what I've been catching. Unfortunately, the fish was a bit washed out, but you can see the broad vertical bars along the lateral as well as the blueish tint. Small cheek scales, connected dorsal. There is much more bronze coloring in these fish than the alabama bass caught from the same waters. This fish had no tooth patch. Definitely not a pure altamaha bass, but surely this fish isn't a pure anything else either.


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 27, 2019)

That's an interesting looking fish alright—did you happen to get any pics of the caudal fin? I agree it appears to have Altamaha genetics just looking at the pics. The fact it doesn't have a tooth patch though suggests it might be an Altamaha x Shoal hybrid.

Here's a washed-out spring Altamaha Bass that looks very similar to your fish.



This Altamaha Bass was caught in the fall but you can see the physical characteristics more clearly.


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 27, 2019)

Thank you for the info! I did get a pic of the caudal, but I didn't find it very distinctive. I couldn't figure out how to get my hand behind it while holding the fish and the phone, lol. Here you go.


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 28, 2019)

Hard to say one way or the other from that pic and like you said river conditions have a lot to do with the way a fish looks. Hybrid black bass also typically have intermediate features because they're a combination of two (or more) species so you'd really have to genotype that fish IMO to get a definitive answer. 

I've attached a few more pics of Altamaha Bass from an area where nonnative species have not been introduced (yet). You can see the spots on the caudal fin and the location of the pigment on the fin margins. These features often fade as the fish mature but are still visible in most adults (under ideal conditions).


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 28, 2019)

Those fish are very distinctive. Can't wait to catch one. In other news I've been watching this crew fish up at the millstead dam on the yellow river. Seems this river is full of surprises.


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 28, 2019)

That first fish could be a Shoal Bass but I kind of doubt it...hybridization between species is out of control in the Yellow River and has been for a while thanks to the illegal introduction of nonnative species. Those other two fish for example are definitely hybrids with Alabama Bass genetics. 

If people don't stop moving fish around all our streams will be like the Yellow River—no species just a bunch of hybrid/mutt 'bass'.


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 28, 2019)

I was thinking that first fish sure does look like a Smallmouth.


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 28, 2019)

CAPTHotMess said:


> I was thinking that first fish sure does look like a Smallmouth.


The entire pelvic fin on a Smallmouth will have pigment and appears brown while the pelvic fins on most Shoal Bass have a white translucent appearance. Even on a really dark Shoal Bass the entire pelvic fin is rarely dark. There are other ways to ID Smallmouth and Shoal Bass but that's a pretty reliable method if/when the mouth is open. 


Smallmouth bass

















Shoal bass


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## CAPTHotMess (Mar 29, 2019)

Got another weird one last night in the same spot.


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## ShoalBandit (Mar 29, 2019)

CAPTHotMess said:


> Got another weird one last night in the same spot.


That's definitely a hybrid probably an Altamaha x Shoal or an Altamaha x Shoal x Alabama. It has the really prominent horizontal rows of scale spots and the blueish color around the mouth/cheek area like an Altamaha Bass but the midlateral blotches and the spot at the base of the tail are more typical of a Shoal Bass. That's also a male (with redeyes) getting ready to spawn so it's about to make a few thousand more hybrids.


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