# are there Smallmouth in Lake Lanier?



## Old Dead River (Mar 15, 2008)

I've asked several people about this and have gotten mixed answers. The lake is certainly cold enough. We took an intertube trip down the hooch below Buford Dam a few summers ago and the water was 51 degrees coming off the bottom of Lanier.

Where are some good spots for Smallmouth in Georgia?

And anyone know anything about Smallies in the Asheville, NC area? I'm visiting some friends up there soon...


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## fishnfool (Mar 15, 2008)

No, there aren't any smallmouth in Lanier although there are some shoal bass. Lake blue ridge is loaded with smallmouth.


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## Old Dead River (Mar 15, 2008)

if introduced couldn't they thrive there?


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## LanierSpots (Mar 15, 2008)

They would not do well.     Once the spotted bass are the dominate fish, others do not do well. 

They would need to use the same areas  as the spotted bass but could not get established.  The spots would not allow it. 

The only reason there are any largemouths left is they hide like cowards under the shallowest docks in the most polluted water.  

If you want to catch a smallmouth, save your pennies and make a trip up to Lake Erie.  It will be the trip of a lifetime..


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## Poor Poor Fisherman (Mar 15, 2008)

*White Bass*

A friend of mine says he fished for White Bass at Lanier for years.  I have fished that water for two years and have never seen a White Bass or talked to anyone who has caught one.  

Maybe Ryan or someone can shead some light on what happened to these fish.

Thanks


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## Randall (Mar 15, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> The only reason there are any largemouths left is they hide like cowards under the shallowest docks in the most polluted water.



Now I know where you have been fishing. I have noticed here lately you have started catching some real fish instead of those little spots you usually have in your reports. I was starting to wonder if the LM had taken over the deep water where the spots go to hide from largemouth so they don't get eaten.


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## Randall (Mar 15, 2008)

*NC Smallmouth*



Old Dead River said:


> I've asked several people about this and have gotten mixed answers. The lake is certainly cold enough. We took an intertube trip down the hooch below Buford Dam a few summers ago and the water was 51 degrees coming off the bottom of Lanier.
> 
> Where are some good spots for Smallmouth in Georgia?
> 
> And anyone know anything about Smallies in the Asheville, NC area? I'm visiting some friends up there soon...



I grew up in Waynesville which is west of Asheville. Fontana is my favorite SM lake up there.


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## Old Dead River (Mar 15, 2008)

i'm not very fond of lake lanier in general. if you ask me those striper have ruined the ecosystem. they're voracious feeders. from what i gather this is why there aren't many if any trout in the lake.

i have heard that about the spots being dominant.

I'm going to try that lake blue ridge. I've caught smallmouth on the tennessee river (picwick) but that's far away. I've also caught them on the Potomac.


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## Bigredbullet21xd (Mar 15, 2008)

The only place in GA to catch Smallies is Blue Ridge. Chatuge did have some good sm fishing til the spots dominated and interbred with them. Now days about all we catch there resembling a sm will be a cross...or a meanmouth as they are called out west.

Yes, there are whitebass in Lanier, though not as prolific as they once were. I think that an eye fungus has decimated the population some. But, there are some there still to be caught. Fish from Clarks bridge up right now to find them.


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## Stock (Mar 15, 2008)

*hate to open a can of worms but...*

The stripers have hurt the Lanier ecosystem?  Please explain


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## LanierSpots (Mar 16, 2008)

I am no biologist and I dont like Stripers that well but, I dont think they are hurting the lake.  There is a great balance of bait vs Gamefish in Lanier.  There is always a worry with the herring and I think Lanier has answered the question.  With the right balance of preditors, ie stripers and spots, the herring can be controlled.  

Its the best spotted bass lake in the country.  Bar none.  There are a few largemouths in there but they are few.   Mid February to Mid March are about the only time they ever come into play.   Once they get off the obvious places and hide again, you will once again see the real Lanier treasure, the awesome monster spotted bass...


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## Old Dead River (Mar 16, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> I am no biologist and I dont like Stripers that well but, I dont think they are hurting the lake.  There is a great balance of bait vs Gamefish in Lanier.  There is always a worry with the herring and I think Lanier has answered the question.  With the right balance of preditors, ie stripers and spots, the herring can be controlled.
> 
> Its the best spotted bass lake in the country.  Bar none.  There are a few largemouths in there but they are few.   Mid February to Mid March are about the only time they ever come into play.   Once they get off the obvious places and hide again, you will once again see the real Lanier treasure, the awesome monster spotted bass...





Stock said:


> The stripers have hurt the Lanier ecosystem?  Please explain



that was  an opinion.

echoing an opinion of several Lanier anglers that I've known. They made the point to me about trout (lack thereof) and striper feeding habits.

besides, i'm not to keen on the double standard striper have enjoyed compared to another large predatorial fish, the flathead catfish.  DNR encourages the catch and harvest of any flatheads in the Oconee River (and in other rivers) due to them being a non-indigenous predator. There are even programs to completely eliminate flathead populations from certain rivers. Yet Striper, another non indigenous predator, are introduced in various locations for the purpose of recreational fishing.


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## LanierSpots (Mar 16, 2008)

There are not trout in Lake Lanier becuse they stopped stocking them years and years ago.   It has nothing to do with the striper population...    


You are correct.  I dont exactly consider a flathead catfish a recreational fish.   Half the people, or more, who fish Lanier , fish for the bloody stripers.  I am not sure how many of them would be fishing for flatheads if there were no stripers and lots of cats...   Just not sure myself but I think that number would be very low.   


Every lake his its nitch.   For lanier it is stripers and spots.  For other places, its bluegills or crappie.  And for the farm ponds, its largemouths.  LOL.


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## stev (Mar 16, 2008)

yup lake erie near the warm water discharge pipe.Out of dunkirk fredonia ny


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## Old Dead River (Mar 16, 2008)

i stand corrected on the trout. point well taken.

and i agree with you I wouldn't see big cats as generating tremendous enthusiasm on a lake like Lanier. I can't see bourgeois weekenders turning out in droves for catfish.  LOL

i do however consider the flathead a recreational fish as do most catfishermen. They are an excellent game fish. The absolute king of the river and preferential to the other two species of large catfish. but in a thread about smallmouth that's neither here nor there.

p.s. speaking of farmpond largemouths, the weather is nice today 




LanierSpots said:


> There are not trout in Lake Lanier becuse they stopped stocking them years and years ago.   It has nothing to do with the striper population...
> 
> 
> You are correct.  I dont exactly consider a flathead catfish a recreational fish.   Half the people, or more, who fish Lanier , fish for the bloody stripers.  I am not sure how many of them would be fishing for flatheads if there were no stripers and lots of cats...   Just not sure myself but I think that number would be very low.
> ...


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## LanierSpots (Mar 16, 2008)

*Yep*

You are correct.  I would love to be out on Lanier but its family day and I am about to head out for the day. LOL.

It would be great out there today.


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## Stock (Mar 16, 2008)

Completely agree.  Lanier is one if not the best spot lakes in the country (like ryan said) so i am always entertained to hear people try to say the lake has suffered due to the striper population.  I think the stripers play a very important role for lanier since the bluebacks.

Just curious what others thought... sorry for the hijack.


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## dslary (Mar 16, 2008)

*Lanier*

I've fished Lanier since I was big enough to climb into a flat bottom boat.   I believe that the single biggest factor making fishing for any predatory game fish difficult is those (&#@& Blue Back Herring.  Herring are a bit different from Shad and other bait fish in that they are travelling school fishes.  Unlike Shad that tend to stay in a general area, Herring run all over the place.  While I still fished Lanier, all you had to do was locate structure with cover and/or Shad and you had a good chance of finding fish.  Today, the Bass, etc. seem to move with the Herring making it very difficult to locate them or to stay on them even.  BBs are the big reason for Lanier's huge spots so I suppose you can't cuss them too much.


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## Twenty five ought six (Mar 16, 2008)

Isn't it a stretch to talk about Lake Lanier's "natural ecology".

Its "natural ecology" is a warm water river fishery.


When I was a lad and the earth was young, there were some dedicated "smallmouth" fishermen in the Roswell area.  They would fish in the shoals for bass.  I remembering seeing the fish, but whether they were shoal bass or true smallmouths, I have no idea.  No one had ever heard of a "spotted bass" at that time, or if they had, they called it a "Kentucky bass".


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## Stock (Mar 16, 2008)

Those are some really good points.  I would guess they were shoalies but that is just a guess.


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## basskid5000 (Mar 16, 2008)

There is still some good Smallmouth fishing in Blue Ridge.  I know how everone says that Spots will take over a lake but Blue Ridge to me is an exception. There is almost every kinda of fish imaginable in blue ridge and they all for the most part are doing okay. I've caught big Smallies, LGmouth, and Spots out of that lake. I believe the biggest LG was 7.4lbs, Smallies 3-5lbs are usaul and A few 3lb+ spots.


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## Tim L (Mar 17, 2008)

Arent' there smallmouths in Lake Nottley up in Union County?


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## big fish (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes . Most of the lakes around the NG mountains have smallmouths in them.


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## Old Dead River (Mar 17, 2008)

well, it's not a stretch to discuss this lake's (or any lake's) ecosystem particularly it's food chain and food web. 

The herring, a non indigenous invasive species, make an excellent forage for the spots and the striper yet they eat plankton, fish eggs, and even fry. That's an interesting relationship. If the herring numbers were to go unchecked they could decimate the populations of even larger fish that generally consume and consider them prey. This represents a counterbalance of sorts. DNR appears to be very concerned about this and whether this balance will shift in the future. Or maybe they're more worried about the lake going dry 

also kind of interesting that the two biggest draws on Lanier(spots and striper) are not native to the lake. What would appear to be the three most important participants (herring included) in the food chain aren't native- that's remarkable.

had the herring, striper, and spots not been introduced  wouldn't Lanier be a remarkably different lake? maybe even a Trout Lake? and very likely a good largemouth lake... 

speaking of ecology. I've got a 66 acre lake in Hancock County that is overrun with those darn Shiners - ya know the big ones that Roland Martin used to use. It's really inhibiting the bream fishing from the docks. I can't keep the hook baited for them. Hopefully as the bass and catfish mature they will work on these shiner .





Twenty five ought six said:


> Isn't it a stretch to talk about Lake Lanier's "natural ecology".
> 
> Its "natural ecology" is a warm water river fishery.
> 
> ...


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## geno manneti (Mar 17, 2008)

I remember reading an article years age, GON I think, that claimed that before Lanier was created smallmouth lived in the Chestatee River and that the state record was 9lbs and was caught in the Chestatee very close to where hwy 400 crosses the river up by  hwy 60. Does anyone else recall this article or know how to research the alleged 9 lbs smallmouth catch, which would have been over 50 years ago. Just curious---  Geno


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## chestatee (Mar 17, 2008)

*small mouth in nt. ga. lakes*

blue ridge is the only lake in north georgia that has small mouth. chatuge used to have small mouth but they have gaveway to the spots. notley does not have small mouth.


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## j_seph (Mar 17, 2008)

Stock said:


> The stripers have hurt the Lanier ecosystem? Please explain


Hate to let the worms out of the box but how so? 
If they are such eating machines would there be so much bait in the lake?
Wouldn't they be easier to catch?
Herring probally eat as many bass,crappie fry if not more than the stripers do


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## Old Dead River (Mar 19, 2008)

j_seph said:


> Hate to let the worms out of the box but how so?
> If they are such eating machines would there be so much bait in the lake?
> Wouldn't they be easier to catch?
> Herring probally eat as many bass,crappie fry if not more than the stripers do




yeah, as I said before it was a misnomer for me to fault the striper. Regardless of my prejudice against the Striped Bass -The herring is the problem.

speaking of smallmouth on Saturday i'm heading to a stream near Florence, Alabama which is suppossed to be loaded w/ smallies. I'm stoked!


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## goob (Mar 19, 2008)

fishnfool said:


> No, there aren't any smallmouth in Lanier although there are some shoal bass. Lake blue ridge is loaded with smallmouth.




Flint River Smallmouth(Shoal Bass)


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## trapperP (Mar 19, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> There are not trout in Lake Lanier becuse they stopped stocking them years and years ago.   It has nothing to do with the striper population...
> 
> 
> You are correct.  I dont exactly consider a flathead catfish a recreational fish.   Half the people, or more, who fish Lanier , fish for the bloody stripers.  I am not sure how many of them would be fishing for flatheads if there were no stripers and lots of cats...   Just not sure myself but I think that number would be very low.
> Every lake his its nitch.   For lanier it is stripers and spots.  For other places, its bluegills or crappie.  And for the farm ponds, its largemouths.  LOL.



Don't want to start an argument here but ANYTHING in Lanier at the moment is small enough to get into water too shallow for the striper to catch him!  As for the trout, no, you won't find any because the stripers ate them - last couple I saw from Lanier had been caught and escaped - still had the scrape marks from the stripers.
As for the flatheads, I think you are wrong, dead wrong here.  Tell some of the catfish guides at Santee how there wouldn't be "how many of them would be fishing for flatheads if there were no stripers and lots of cats...   Just not sure myself but I think that number would be very low."
 Personally, I think the freshwater striper is a waste once you get past the thrill of catching a large fish, possibly a VERY large fish, out of your local lake.  An entirely different fish than the striper from salt water. 
Now, if we could just get the DNR to stock Lanier full of coho - but I digress.

Best regards!
trapperP


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## LanierSpots (Mar 19, 2008)

Trapper, do you realize how the trout got in Lanier?


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## trapperP (Mar 19, 2008)

Jmike said:


> striper fisherman...



Yep, some few (very few) were probaly escapees from striper fishermen but the State DNR used to stock them every year.  I caught a 25 1/2" rainbow from under Brown's Bridge one night crappie fishing, seen some other HUGE trout caught out of Lanier in the late 60's and early 70's.
I think the point you are trying to make is that the trout, like the stripers, herring, etc., were an introduced, non-native species, and I agree with you.  IF you take Lake Lanier and maintain the lake with nothing other than the 'native species' what sort of fishery would you have?  
And I don't think you have to answer that.
Personally, I would like to see some changes but overall, the DNR is doing and has done a good job over the years.  Fishing is better than it has ever been with more opportunites than ever, opportunities that did not even exist say 40 -50 years ago.


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## trapperP (Mar 19, 2008)

Jmike said:


> Exactly...though I'm out of the big lake fishing for the last 2 years...I used to spend 3 days a week on Lanier all through the 90's and early 2000's...It has definitely turned into a great fishery. Can improvements be made? I'm certain there's always improvements. But they've done a great job so far.



Took a few minutes to find it but here 'tis:
"Despite the fact that trout thrive in both the Chattahoochee and Chestatee rivers above Lake Lanier, none seem to venture down into the lake naturally. The few trout that are caught in Lake Lanier today are commercially-raised rainbows that have been released by striper fishermen using them for bait. *Until 1987, however, trout were stocked in Lake Lanier annually, but due to changing water conditions, different angling interests, the addition of striped bass, and the cost of the stocking program, it was ended. *"
Won't tell you his name but an old time employee with the DNR stocking program once told me that Lanier was the 'dumping' site for any 'surplus' trout they ended up with - in short, they knew where Lanier was and didn't have to work to get there!
Just an interesting aside but please note that the State put the trout in Lanier many, many years before they put any strippers in.  BTW, did you know they put walleye in for awhile?


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## LanierSpots (Mar 19, 2008)

They actually put Walleyes in last year as well.  40,000 of them.   

My point is, the stripers did not eliminate the trout.  They just stopped stocking them due to poor water conditions and survival rate of the stockers.  The stripers would do better in the poor water so its more economical to stock them..

Dont get me wrong, I dont care for the stipers but they do work will in Lanier.  I cant believe the flatheads would strive in a deep water cold lake with no current.   I dont know crap about cats though..

There is a great mix of fish that can strive in the lake now.  Lets just not destroy it.


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## pbmang (Mar 19, 2008)

The Walleye fishing is actually pretty decent on Lanier, you just never hear about it because no one does it. When I was in my early teens I had a friend who guided (and still does) on Lanier and we would spend a good bit of time catching them, espically in the summer.  We would take his jet and run way up the rivers and the walleye would be stacked in with the stripers in the cooler waters of the river.  

It really was an experience, and something very few Lanier anglers have experienced.


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## Stock (Mar 19, 2008)

hey trapper i sure wish i would have been aroung the lake when they started putting the strippers in....  is that how cocktail cove started?


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## trapperP (Mar 19, 2008)

Stock said:


> hey trapper i sure wish i would have been aroung the lake when they started putting the strippers in....  is that how cocktail cove started?


I can't say about the 'Cocktail Cove' but I can tell you it was funny when they started growing large enough to be worth something.  A lot of people started hanging these  'monsters' in the lake and of course they didn't land many of them because of their tackle and the methods they used.  If you take pliers and turn the drag down as tight as it will go - no slip! - as some bass fishermen did on their Ambassadeur 5000's, you won't  land many stripers.  I had a small advantage having caught a lot of them out of salt water (Charleston, SC) but the freshwater fish is quite a bit different - you can still count on them to make that first run, pull out the hooks or break something.  The bigger they are the longer the run they will mke, nine times out of ten, or so I have found.
BTW, they stocked some stripers in other GA lakes such as Jackson, High Falls, etc.  in the mid-60's.  Some were caught out of Jackson but if anyone ever caught one of the first stocked in High Falls I never knew of it.
And I agree, in general, that we have a great fishey available to us here in Georgia.  I just want to catch salmon without having to go all the way to Alaska - but wait, that makes the trip 'necessary', right?  Wonder if the DNR would consider putting tigerfish in Lanier?


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## huntindawg (Mar 19, 2008)

Stock, I don't think he caught your meaning there..


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## huntindawg (Mar 19, 2008)

chestatee said:


> blue ridge is the only lake in north georgia that has small mouth. chatuge used to have small mouth but they have gaveway to the spots. notley does not have small mouth.



I don't know if you are being serious or not, but I have caught smallmouth out of Nottley as recently as 2 years ago.  I don't know if that was the last one in there or not, but he seemed pretty healthy.


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## Old Dead River (Mar 24, 2008)

No Lanier would not be an ideal habitat for flathead catfish. I was just making the point about the double standard applied to them by DNR. It makes for an interesting juxtaposition. 

There is a thread on this board detailing the Satilla Flathead project and DNR has made recommendations to keep any flathead caught in the Oconee River- this hits close to home since it's my backyard. Flatheads aren't even native to the Altamaha which is where the state record was caught. Despite being non-indigenous, the Flatheads are an incredible gamefish (excellent fighter and good eating at any size, unlike other large catfish species). Aside from a sturgeon they are one of the largest fish that one could expect to harvest from a Georgia waterway. Native or not, much like your Striper, they're primo!

The impetus for the Flathead roundup is declining red breast populations. They've even gone as far to say they're affecting bullhead catfish populations as well. I say who cares? Perhaps those Satilla fisherman should buy some bigger tackle and embrace the flathead. Natural predation by humans might balance it out without having to have DNR electroshocking the river.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/organizations/sfc/satillariver2007.html

And yes, I'd intended to mention Sante Cooper and Catfish. That is an excellent example of sport catfishing. I'd love to go.

There are flatheads in West Point though i don't know at what point on the Chatahoochee they originate...

In spite of them concluding trout stocking programs on Lanier don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Striper don't eliminate trout if that's what a lot of striper fisherman use for bait? That's sort of a contradictory notion isn't it? I mean, that's how they're raising these mammoth largemouth bass in california in places like Lake Dixon. They're growing bass like vegetables out there introducing those trout into those SoCal lakes with deep enough water to sustain the trout. Hence numerous 20+ pound largemouths.

I've been told that there are Lake Trout in the depths of Lanier near the dam, fact or fiction?



LanierSpots said:


> They actually put Walleyes in last year as well.  40,000 of them.
> 
> My point is, the stripers did not eliminate the trout.  They just stopped stocking them due to poor water conditions and survival rate of the stockers.  The stripers would do better in the poor water so its more economical to stock them..
> 
> ...


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## LanierSpots (Mar 24, 2008)

No no.  You missed what I said.  I did not say stripers would not eat the trout.  I said they are not the reason they are not there anymore.  IF the DNR would have stopped stocking trout in Lanier and there were no stripers in there, there still would not be any trout in the lake.   They were stocked there and could not spawn.  Regardless of what eat the last few in there, the reason they are not there is becuause they stopped stocking them..

I dont know about the lake trout thing.   I fish Lanier about 250-300 days every year and have been for 10-12 years.   I have never even heard of one being caught but like I said, I dont know that.  There could be.   

I did however catch this trout two years ago in Lanier, on the lower end.  I believed it to be a bait that got away from a striper fisherman and somehow lived.   It was around 14 inches long and eat up my topwater in May.  LOL.


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## Stock (Mar 24, 2008)

I have heard of being able to catch large browns at the lake side of the Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ---- at night during the cooler water months, but have never done it.


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