# Defensive Gun for Bear



## GunnSmokeer (Aug 17, 2010)

Suppose I wanted to go hiking and camping in bear country (black bears, north Georgia mountains).  I realize that black bears are not normally aggressive toward humans. I know about keeping food out of reach and away from your tents. I know about making noise as you hike so you don't startle one.  

But suppose I wanted a tool to carry for self-defense against bears (lets say just black bears. Not psycho dudes, meth-heads cooking up a batch in the woods, etc.).

I have a friend who would loan me a 4" barreled .44 magnum  revolver. Would that be good bear protection?

I have both a .40 semi-auto pistol and a .357 magnum revolver (6" bbl). But I doubt their ability to stop a charging 500-lb bear at close range, where I may only have time to get off a couple shots.

How about a long gun?  If it were legal and if I were not afraid of being charged with unlawful hunting or poaching, I'd seriously consider carrying a shotgun loaded with slugs.
Would a 20-gauge slug do it?  (.60 caliber,  7/8 of an ounce... probably same muzzle velocity as a 12 gauge...)

What do y'all think?


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## CornStalker (Aug 17, 2010)

Gunnsmoker:

As you mentioned, black bears are not very aggressive. I honestly can't recall any hunter in modern times being killed by one--I need to double-check the books to verify that, though.

Bear pepper spray works very well, and can be a great defense tool.  If your set on carrying a pistol, there isn't that much difference between a .44, .40 or .357---just aim for the head (which shouldnt be a problem if its running straight at you!!). I'd honestly go with the lightest gun, especially if your hiking long distances. 

Make sure you have a permit to pack heat, and definitely don't carry a long gun! 

By the way, if you see a 500lb bear, mark that location on a GPS and go ahead and PM me with it. =)


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## Resica (Aug 17, 2010)

Here is a list of fatal bear attacks. I'd take some bear spray with you.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America


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## dadsbuckshot (Aug 17, 2010)

Resica said:


> Here is a list of fatal bear attacks. I'd take some bear spray with you.
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America



Interesting read right there


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## SiRed94 (Aug 17, 2010)

Just carry a 9mm.  You don't want to hurt the poor bear. Haha.


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## Coastie (Aug 17, 2010)

To restate the obvious, you do not need a handgun for Bear protection. If you feel you must and wish to take a chance of ending up in front of a judge, do NOT aim for a Bears head unless you just want to annoy the crap out of it. A Bears head is sloped and thick in the area you would have to penetrate to do any good unless you just happened to hit it dead on the end of its nose. By the sound of things you may not be an experienced handgun shooter and that compounds the problem so if you are that scared of walking in the woods where Bears live, just stay home.


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## Gordief (Aug 17, 2010)

what ever pistol you chose, load it
with high performance ammo


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## Resica (Aug 17, 2010)

Just don't go berry picking in Canada and you'll be fine.


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## Ohoopee Tusker (Aug 17, 2010)

That .44 will do the job. If you are charged aim low and into the middle of the chest. Very slim chance of this in Ga. but peace of mind makes the woods more enjoyable.


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## ArmyTaco (Aug 17, 2010)

Dont you know that nobody on here is scared of bears? There is no reason to carry while bear hunting...GON EXPERTS said so...duh.


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## gobbleinwoods (Aug 17, 2010)

Carry because you can.  There is more in the woods than bears to carry for.


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## thurmongene (Aug 17, 2010)

I've hunted across the Ga. woods for years.  Even through so called "bear country,"  and never seen one.


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## one hogman (Aug 17, 2010)

*Bear gun*

The .44 would be  the most powerful, but if you shoot the .40 well if it's a high capacity I would load it with the best FMJs or a dutch mix every other one hollowpoint. and shoot for the head IF troubled by a bear. The .40 has good power and penetration with FMJs .And is controllable with quick follow up shots. I have walked up on a  big bear while squirrel hunting in Union cty the #6 shot  I carried felt a little wimpy, but the bear ran away as soon as he saw what I was. Did anyone else read of the guy in Denali killing the Grizzly with a .45 auto in June?? I would say he is skilled and lucky.


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## j_seph (Aug 17, 2010)

thurmongene said:


> I've hunted across the Ga. woods for years. Even through so called "bear country," and never seen one.


 Question is, how many have seen you? I've put feed out for deer just to check my camera and found out that there was a bear very near me while I was pouring out the feed. Chances are one won't attack but there is always the first time. I had a friend of mine best friend have one running beside him the other day while he was on a motorcycle, she ran past him, crossed in front of him and grabbed her cub off the side of the gravel road, soencounters could happen. Cmghunter walked between a sow and 2 cubs last year, lucky for him she grunted and the cubs and her left.


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## mountainarcher (Aug 17, 2010)

Problem is this..When a BLACK bear does decide to attack it WILL do so with the intent of KILLIN YOU....The reasons for the attack are ALMOST always for the purpose of protecting their young or they need food and YOU just became part of the menu...I've Bow hunted blacks sence I was 12 and from time to time I have ran across a few with a bad or different attitude...most of these are above 250 lbs but not always..As for the pepper spray...You're kidding right,Are you willing to stake your life on a can of spray,Didn't think so!!!! As for the .44,it will do the job but as Deepwoodshermit said forget that shoot em in the head crap...Below the chin,center mass of his chest....Chances are you will never need it.But then again,you never know....Black bears are as different as you and I...


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## dertiedawg (Aug 18, 2010)

CornStalker said:


> Bear pepper spray works very well, and can be a great defense tool.  If your set on carrying a pistol, there isn't that much difference between a .44, .40 or .357---just aim for the head



There is a huge difference between .44, .40 and .357, but I would go with a .44 mag or .357 mag.  There was a video of a black bear eating bear pepper spray.  A black bear would much rather run away, but if a black bear is angry enough to attack you, do you really think pepper spray is gonna stop it... so if you really need to use something, better have more kick than pepper spray.


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## dgmeadows (Aug 18, 2010)

*Hmmm...*



Coastie said:


> To restate the obvious, you do not need a handgun for Bear protection. If you feel you must and wish to take a chance of ending up in front of a judge, do NOT aim for a Bears head unless you just want to annoy the crap out of it. A Bears head is sloped and thick in the area you would have to penetrate to do any good unless you just happened to hit it dead on the end of its nose. By the sound of things you may not be an experienced handgun shooter and that compounds the problem so if you are that scared of walking in the woods where Bears live, just stay home.



The fellow said he owns a .40 semi-auto pistol and a .357 magnum revolver (6" bbl) but he doubts their ability to stop a charging 500-lb bear at close range, where he may only have time to get off a couple shots.... sounds like he might have some experience shooting handguns.  His signature block also says "NRA, GCO, and GSSA member
Highpower rifle competitor", so I am guessing the guy might know a little bit about shooting.  Although obviously not as much as some folks on this forum.

Granted, he may be overestimating the typical bear size in Georgia a bit, but the list posted above shows that stuff can happen, including a couple not too far away in the Great Smokey Mtns.  There is a difference between scared and prepared.  We occasionally find canebreaks, cottonmouths and copperheads on my property.  Am I afraid to walk in the woods ?  No.  Do I wear my snake boots or gaiters in the warm months.  Yes.


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## pnome (Aug 18, 2010)

Ok just kidding.  Get yourself a good .44 mag revolver and you'll never feel scared going into the woods in the dark.  That is, as long as you don't believe in ghosts. 

edit: found this one on the GON Market.  This will do nicely:http://www.gon.com/marketplace/listings/386/ruger_new_model_super_blackhawk_44_mag_stainless


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## dertiedawg (Aug 18, 2010)

Wasn't it Timothy Treadwell that dedicated his life to living with the bears and would not carry a gun, always talking about how you just have to read their body language and give them space, then after years of living with them, he and his girlfriend were eaten by them.  Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!! Wild animals are just that... wild. If I could NOT legally pack a piece, would that stop me from going to the mountains... no!!  But being that I can... I do.


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## CornStalker (Aug 18, 2010)

Gunnsmoker:

Apparently everyone is an expert on black bear defense: "don't shoot it in the head", "there is a huge difference in .44, .357, and .40", "do you really think pepper spray is going to stop it"...etc.

Carry what YOU are comfortable carrying and shooting. The truth is, the bear won't have a much of preference for either caliber, and a shot anywhere to his chest or head is going to turn it away. 

As for pepper spray, its a great weapon because it stops the curious bear without having to kill it.


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## dertiedawg (Aug 20, 2010)

CornStalker said:


> Gunnsmoker:
> 
> As you mentioned, black bears are not very aggressive. I honestly can't recall any hunter in modern times being killed by one--I need to double-check the books to verify that, though.
> 
> ...





CornStalker said:


> Gunnsmoker:
> 
> Apparently everyone is an expert on black bear defense: "don't shoot it in the head", "there is a huge difference in .44, .357, and .40", "do you really think pepper spray is going to stop it"...etc.
> 
> ...



Apparantly!!




GunnSmokeer said:


> What do y'all think?



But the OP asked and you replied just like the rest of us. You can't expect to have an opinion and have everyone agree with you. But I do agree with "Carry what YOU are comfortable carrying and shooting. The truth is, the bear won't have a much of preference for either caliber, and a shot anywhere to his chest or head is going to turn it away". Unless of course the bear is sick or rabid. I think there have been a lot of confrontations with rabid animals in Georgia this year, haven't heard about any rabid bears though.  You should make it to the Outlaw Bear Camp this year... I think this topic should be discussed around the campfire.


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## r0cketman (Aug 20, 2010)

FWIW,
I have bears around the house and hunt here too. I never enter the woods without my Glock 10mm. The funny thing is I've never seen one while hunting or walking in the woods. Go figure.


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## LawnStalker (Aug 20, 2010)

"rabid" and "bear": two words I hope never to see that close again... 

Scary enough to read but to consider the only thing between it, myself and the desert course is a handgun... A whole string of unpleasantries come to mind.

Cornstalker: I'll be honest, If I find one like that I hope to leave a trail back to that location that you ought to be able to follow by smell alone... Of course, a bear will probably catch up as slow as I run slipping & slidding around in my "trail" so to speak. Having raised cattle, I know 500 lbs of vegatarian can hurt you without a thought; 500lbs of omnivore might have plans for my backstrap and other tender chewies.


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## GunnSmokeer (Aug 21, 2010)

*handgun*

It sounds like most people think that shot placement is more important than stopping power, at least between the guns and calibers I mentioned.

So scratch the .44 magnum wheelgun off the list.  Being a borrowed gun, I would not be in regular practice with it, and the grip is uncomfortably large anyway. Not good for a scenario where I'd have to draw fast and fire rapidly with good aim.

I've won trophies shooting my 6" revolver in .357.  I have used it for bullseye shooting, bowling pins, PPC type games.  But when I test the penetration of .357 loads (say, 158 gr. SWC lead or JHP) in wet newspaper or water jugs, I'm not all that impressed when I imagine that depth and that size wound channel in a 300+ pound animal that may be charging me and planning on killing me in just seconds.

Ditto for the .40 caliber.  I guess with JHP ammo it would penetrate enough.  It would be like shooting the bear with field-point arrows, I suppose. Small hole deep in.  Sure, the 40 holds 10+ rounds.  But would I have time to fire more than 3, if I were charged at close range?

I can shoot a pump shotgun from the hip just as fast as any semi-auto pistol or revolver, and I can do it with greater accuracy.  I know either 20 or 12 gauge shotgun slugs are going to penetrate plenty deep and leave a wider wound channel.

But I don't want to carry a long gun while hiking.  My hands will be busy with a water bottle and a walking stick. And I don't want to get accused of hunting/ poaching.
So I guess I'll give up the shotgun idea because it's not practical.


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## Bkeepr (Aug 21, 2010)

When we were up in Alaska salmon fishing, the rangers recommended bear spray over hand guns.  The bear spray has a far reach and with a hand gun you will either miss or anger the bear.  The rangers themselves carried rifles with tape over the barrel to keep the rain out.  

At least here in Georgia bears get hunted, the ones up in the Smokies in areas where no hunting is allowed have lost their respect for humans.  Didn't one kill a child in recent years?  

We went up to Alaska during bear season and didn't see a single bear while fishing.   But mamas and young bears were all over the Yakutat Zoo (aka the dump)


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## CornStalker (Aug 21, 2010)

Gunsmoker:

I hear ya' man--tis but an opionion. I was being more sarcastic than anything else---just poking fun at everybody that strongly disagreed with me. My opinions on a bear defense weapon are guided by my little knowledge of the ursus americana and firearms...not on an actual experience. I'll just add that disclaimer so no one mistakes me for a bear defense expert.
 ....Although, if it came down to a life or death fight with a black bear, I think I could hold my own with a knife and some Chuck Norris moves. 

As for rabid bears--that's an interesting notion that I'll have to ponder for a little while! This would probably make me want to carry a sawed-off 12... I haven't heard of any bear rabies cases in these parts. Does anyone know if any bears have tested positive for the virus in georgia?

Black Bear Defense Expert


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## albridges (Aug 21, 2010)

I read an article a couple years ago, and the guy writing the artical was talking with an Alaskan Ranger. The Ranger stated that the best defense for bear that he would recommend was the bear strength pepper spray and 12ga with buckshot and then a slug for the next two rounds.

I know those bears up there are a lot bigger and probably a lot more aggressive. But really who could keep thier composure enough to shoot a charging bear in the right spot that would lay it down with any common pistol? Even a .44 would have to be a great shot to completly stop a bear from getting to you.

If I were in bear country and really had a concern for that happening I would tote a Pistol-Grip 12ga pump with the buckshot, slug, slug, combo. As the best defense.


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## Bkeepr (Aug 22, 2010)

The brown bears (coastal bears) get huge, but are only interested in packing on calories before winter, and salmon are fattiest thing they can get in the fall.  A thin bear does not wake up in the spring.  They can eat fresh salmon, or dead and dying ones after the salmon are done spawning.  When we went up it rained so much the river flooded and there were dead salmon draped in the brush along the river, plus piles of them in the eddies.  These bears get used to people fishing and mostly ignore you and only want to eat, eat, eat.  You are instructed to carry your catch with you and never leave your catch on the bank while fishing because this trains the bears to follow and pester fishermen.  The first year we went up, there was an adolescent male bear that would "pretend" to be sniffing around and coincidentally start moseying towards fishermen, sniffing around and walking slowly up the opposite bank.  But you could see that he was watching you the whole time, it was creepy.  And he was over 100 yards away, too but if he'd wanted he could have been on us in seconds.  The rangers went to evaluate him and decided he wasn't that big of a threat, but the next year they killed him.

The bears at the dump were mostly worried about other bears, and ignored the bulldozers and workers.  The mamas would pop their teeth loudly when they thought other bears were getting too close to their cubs.


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## Marlin_444 (Aug 22, 2010)

I have too many folks waiting for me back at the house to not have a Bear Carry Gun.







My choice is a Ruger SRH in .454 Casull... 

See you in the woods...

Ron


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## Jester896 (Aug 22, 2010)

Corbon makes a round for a .44...only # i see on the box is 44 Rem Mag 305GR FPPN 1250 fps 1058 ft/lbs...they run about $50 for 20...i would stay away from the .40 and hope that the .357 would do it and feel confident that the .44 with that load would


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## Marlin_444 (Aug 22, 2010)

.454 Casull BVAC 300 Grain JHP's at 1525 FPS box of 50 for $37.00 - Woo Hoo!!!

Can you say "KA-BOOM-PLOP!!!

See you in the woods... 

Ron


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## 10gaMafia (Aug 24, 2010)

The .45ACP worked on that grizzly in Denali, 7 to 9 shots fired.....i think i unload whatever i had and pray its enough, hiking i carry a 9mm 92F, 16 rounds of 240gr HP's, hunting i always have my 10ga


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