# Bear-Dog Results?



## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)

I guess I just want to see a bear down.... 
Anybody know if the bear doggers are having any better luck than us still hunting guys? 
I've heard from one guy I know on a team and the report was that they hadn't done too well over the weekend. That was early yesterday so that might have changed...

Anybody heard anything about the success rate of the bear dog hunt?


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## GAbullHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

Haven't heard anything on the hunt. Was hoping to have heard something as well since no one had a great hunt for still hunters. Several guys local and seasoned didn't even see anything. It's crazy but its nature that's how it goes. Hoping rifle opener will be better.


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## rr348 (Sep 28, 2020)

My group killed 2 Saturday and sunday and I heard of a few more killed as well. There are still lots of bears on the hooch, problem is there is a ton of food compared to last year. The bears don't have to leave the ivy thickets to eat. plenty of nothern red oaks and chestnut oaks. Most acorns ive seen in the mtns in a couple of years which is a good thing, the game in the mtns need it. 

Im sure the word will be that the dog hunters put a hurting on them last year and that's why this year wasn't as good as last year but the truth is there is just more food and they aren't having to move.


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## tree cutter 08 (Sep 28, 2020)

I heard 7 was killed Saturday.  As usual lots of little bears were run and let go. Hooch and surrounding  areas just has to many bears


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## Thunder Head (Sep 28, 2020)

Id imagine its hard to cut a fresh track, if there not making them.


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## twoheartedale (Sep 28, 2020)

As of today 9 bears killed.  1 had a tag/collar.


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## GAbullHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

9 bear is better than none. Food sources are making it harder all around this year.


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## GAbullHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

rr348 said:


> My group killed 2 Saturday and sunday and I heard of a few more killed as well. There are still lots of bears on the hooch, problem is there is a ton of food compared to last year. The bears don't have to leave the ivy thickets to eat. plenty of nothern red oaks and chestnut oaks. Most acorns ive seen in the mtns in a couple of years which is a good thing, the game in the mtns need it.
> 
> Im sure the word will be that the dog hunters put a hurting on them last year and that's why this year wasn't as good as last year but the truth is there is just more food and they aren't having to move.



It's not that we feel the dogs ruined it, just took a pinch outta of early season last year. I don't think turn out will be as good this year due to food sources. Be glad to know final numbers when it's up from each WMA. After hunting 5 days with nothing, interesting to how the dogs done an where they found them most dense at this year once its done.


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## Stump06 (Sep 28, 2020)

How many were killed last year on the dog hunt?


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## GAbullHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

Stump06 said:


> How many were killed last year on the dog hunt?


61, 49 of them sows.


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## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)

rr348 said:


> My group killed 2 Saturday and sunday and I heard of a few more killed as well. There are still lots of bears on the hooch, problem is there is a ton of food compared to last year. The bears don't have to leave the ivy thickets to eat. plenty of nothern red oaks and chestnut oaks. Most acorns ive seen in the mtns in a couple of years which is a good thing, the game in the mtns need it.
> 
> Im sure the word will be that the dog hunters put a hurting on them last year and that's why this year wasn't as good as last year but the truth is there is just more food and they aren't having to move.



Yeah, i am sure a few guys will feel that way, but having seen a ton of bears over spring and summer, I know they are there. Like you said, food sources making things tough. Good luck out there. How about some pics so we can live vicariously...???


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## Buckman18 (Sep 28, 2020)

My group has been on some good rallies the past few days but we haven't killed any yet. Action all 3 days so far though.


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## CornStalker (Sep 28, 2020)

rr348 said:


> My group killed 2 Saturday and sunday and I heard of a few more killed as well. There are still lots of bears on the hooch, problem is there is a ton of food compared to last year. The bears don't have to leave the ivy thickets to eat. plenty of nothern red oaks and chestnut oaks. Most acorns ive seen in the mtns in a couple of years which is a good thing, the game in the mtns need it.
> 
> Im sure the word will be that the dog hunters put a hurting on them last year and that's why this year wasn't as good as last year but the truth is there is just more food and they aren't having to move.


What are you referring to when you say “ivy thickets”? Poison ivy? Just curious because I’ve seen someone else post the same thing recently, and I hadn’t heard that term before....


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 28, 2020)

CornStalker said:


> What are you referring to when you say “ivy thickets”? Poison ivy? Just curious because I’ve seen someone else post the same thing recently, and I hadn’t heard that term before....



Mountain folk refer to rhododendron as laurel and refer to mountain laurel as ivey.  An Ivey thicket is a mountain laurel thicket.


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## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Mountain folk refer to rhododendron as laurel and refer to mountain laurel as ivey.  An Ivey thicket is a mountain laurel thicket.



That might explain why I have deer and bear on my mountain cell cam this week. It’s near a free old gnarly white oaks nestled edged up against a think Laurel/Ivy thicket. I’ll try to post a picture from the phone


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## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)

the thicket is almost spotty behind the camera going down off an east/north west facing slope


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## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)




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## splatek (Sep 28, 2020)




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## livinoutdoors (Sep 29, 2020)

splatek said:


> View attachment 1041269


Dang! Where is this at? I think i have that same buck on camera. Just p.m. the forest service road and where to park at and ill know if its the same one......?


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## splatek (Sep 29, 2020)

I've had that buck daylight about 6-8 times. he tends to roll with a few other bucks and a doe. Its not near a FS road... 
Really it;s in the middle of nowhere. I am not even sure why I hung the cam there except it had these two really big old gnarly white oaks, but then the white oaks didn't make so... I just don't want to walk back that far if I am only going to drag a cam out; I am going to leave it up. Maybe when @Buckman18 is following a dog to a huge bear he'll stop and smile. he knows where the cam is at


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## CornStalker (Sep 30, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Mountain folk refer to rhododendron as laurel and refer to mountain laurel as ivey.  An Ivey thicket is a mountain laurel thicket.[/QUOTE


Well hot dang, you learn something everyday. Thanks for learning me up!


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 30, 2020)

CornStalker said:


> What are you referring to when you say “ivy thickets”? Poison ivy? Just curious because I’ve seen someone else post the same thing recently, and I hadn’t heard that term before....


Exactly what NCMTNHunter said. That's what I've heard all my life-rhododendron is laurel, and laurel is ivy. Flame azaleas are honeysuckles. Hemlocks are spruce pines, and spruce trees are he-balsams. Fraser firs are she-balsams.


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## NCMTNHunter (Sep 30, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Exactly what NCMTNHunter said. That's what I've heard all my life-rhododendron is laurel, and laurel is ivy. Flame azaleas are honeysuckles. Hemlocks are spruce pines, and spruce trees are he-balsams. Fraser firs are she-balsams.



And if any of them are leaning they’re si-gogglin.  And there’s probably a boomer climbing around up there!


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 30, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> And if any of them are leaning they’re si-gogglin.  And there’s probably a boomer climbing around up there!


Yep. Especially in the spruce pines and balsams.


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## CornStalker (Oct 1, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Exactly what NCMTNHunter said. That's what I've heard all my life-rhododendron is laurel, and laurel is ivy. Flame azaleas are honeysuckles. Hemlocks are spruce pines, and spruce trees are he-balsams. Fraser firs are she-balsams.


Haha! It sounds like there may need to be a special book for Appalachian plants names as defined by mountain folk. Like a translation guide.


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## Buckman18 (Oct 1, 2020)

My team killed one yesterday. I didn't get to go with them today but I'll try to update later if they have any luck today.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 1, 2020)

CornStalker said:


> Haha! It sounds like there may need to be a special book for Appalachian plants names as defined by mountain folk. Like a translation guide.


I'm sure anywhere you go in the world, it's the same. Each area's residents have their own local names for the things around them.


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## splatek (Oct 1, 2020)

When I lived in England the dialectic vernacular changed every thirty miles. 
But I agree an Appalachian American translation dictionary would be helpful.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Oct 1, 2020)

splatek said:


> When I lived in England the dialectic vernacular changed every thirty miles.
> But I agree an Appalachian American translation dictionary would be helpful.


As an Appalachian American, I find little difficulty understanding some of the northern UK dialects.


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## Buckman18 (Oct 1, 2020)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> As an Appalachian American, I find little difficulty understanding some of the northern UK dialects.



I find difficulty understanding yankees. And I also find many of them annoying.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 1, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> I find difficulty understanding yankees. And I also find many of them annoying.


Listen if that Sanders had been elected I'd a liked to have dissapeared. His darn yankee accent did something horrie to my ears.


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## strothershwacker (Oct 1, 2020)

splatek said:


> When I lived in England the dialectic vernacular changed every thirty miles.
> But I agree an Appalachian American translation dictionary would be helpful.


Appalachian Americans are the descendants of the first settlers in this country. Carved from rugged people who floated th pond here from western Europe. Scotsman and Irish mainly. Fast forward a good spell and ye got a people rich in their own culture, art, music, cuisine, and language. Some of the greatest craftsmen, poets, musicians, soldiers and scholars the world has ever known came from these hills. I've been called a hillbilly most of my life. As a kid it bothered me. As an adult in such a modern society I now consider it a great compliment. So if ye ever need an interpreter just shoot me a message ?


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## splatek (Oct 2, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> I find difficulty understanding yankees. And I also find many of them annoying.



I guess technically I am a yankee having been born in the north, but....I am descended from Western Pennsylvanians, which might be why I am so drawn to the mountains. That place is covered in hills and portions of the Appalachian range.



strothershwacker said:


> Appalachian Americans are the descendants of the first settlers in this country. Carved from rugged people who floated th pond here from western Europe. Scotsman and Irish mainly. Fast forward a good spell and ye got a people rich in their own culture, art, music, cuisine, and language. Some of the greatest craftsmen, poets, musicians, soldiers and scholars the world has ever known came from these hills. I've been called a hillbilly most of my life. As a kid it bothered me. As an adult in such a modern society I now consider it a great compliment. So if ye ever need an interpreter just shoot me a message ?



@strothershwacker I couldn't agree more. I hope my comment did not come across as rude; I was trying to be funny. It's thing like calling a laurel thicket and ivey thicket that you just wouldn't know if you weren't raised in that culture. So, I appreciate the offer to serve as my translator. I am not sure if it was the book "Quirky", "Outliers", or "The Coddling of the American Mind" where I was reading about how southern Appalachian descendants were born into work ethic and has produced some famous folks when that work ethic was coupled with good timing. I will have to dig up that stuff.


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## strothershwacker (Oct 2, 2020)

splatek said:


> I guess technically I am a yankee having been born in the north, but....I am descended from Western Pennsylvanians, which might be why I am so drawn to the mountains. That place is covered in hills and portions of the Appalachian range.
> 
> 
> 
> @strothershwacker I couldn't agree more. I hope my comment did not come across as rude; I was trying to be funny. It's thing like calling a laurel thicket and ivey thicket that you just wouldn't know if you weren't raised in that culture. So, I appreciate the offer to serve as my translator. I am not sure if it was the book "Quirky", "Outliers", or "The Coddling of the American Mind" where I was reading about how southern Appalachian descendants were born into work ethic and has produced some famous folks when that work ethic was coupled with good timing. I will have to dig up that stuff.


Naw I didn't take it as being rude at all. And these mountains run way up north. The dialect changes a good bit, but the same caliber of folks run way up there. I've met some fine folks from Pennsylvania and beyond.


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## CornStalker (Oct 2, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> My team killed one yesterday. I didn't get to go with them today but I'll try to update later if they have any luck today.
> 
> View attachment 1041635


Finally...someone post a nice bear pic! That appears to be a good one. Male? Weight?


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## greg_n_clayton (Oct 3, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Exactly what NCMTNHunter said. That's what I've heard all my life-rhododendron is laurel, and laurel is ivy. Flame azaleas are honeysuckles. Hemlocks are spruce pines, and spruce trees are he-balsams. Fraser firs are she-balsams.


Is "breaking Ivy" popular in that part of the country ? It use to be very popular around here ! But that is probably for another thread/topic !


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 3, 2020)

greg_n_clayton said:


> Is "breaking Ivy" popular in that part of the country ? It use to be very popular around here ! But that is probably for another thread/topic !


Never heard of it.


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## greg_n_clayton (Oct 3, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Never heard of it.


There is special growth on Ivy that they cut off and use in floral stuff. It brings good money or use to. They use to ship it up North. USFS cracked down on it years ago to the point that folks would be dropped off and picked up later.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Any word on how many sows have been killed and cubs orphaned yet?  I heard a pile of shooting yesterday morning.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Any word on how many sows have been killed and cubs orphaned yet?  I heard a pile of shooting yesterday morning.



Same ol whining I see!  
It must be miserable to be so consumed by jealousy or envy that you spout off about things you have no understanding of in order to put others down.
You can rest easy,  they’ve ran a lot harder this year.  But the bear are thick and everywhere.  Food everywhere to.  Been a few big bear killed.  I’ve also seen 3 dang good bucks that I’ll be back to offer a car ride later on this year.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Oct 3, 2020)

I heard they killed the cubs and barbequed them whole very tender,cry me a handful if all you got to say is bad things about dog hunters just keep it to yourself.


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## strothershwacker (Oct 3, 2020)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> I heard they killed the cubs and barbequed them whole very tender,cry me a handful if all you got to say is bad things about dog hunters just keep it to yourself.


???


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

In the last two years Ive personally separated 17 sows from their cubs just by walking around.  You internet TUFF doggers are straight up lying about the real facts of this nonsense.  There will be a large contingent of people fed up with this mess. Just stating facts. 

Keep talking internet trash behind your computer to a man you have obviously never met in person if it makes you feel good and have a super day.


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## Tadpole23 (Oct 3, 2020)

I've never ran a bear with dogs and probably never will since I don't know anybody with bear dogs but I have run hogs. When you jump a sow with pigs she runs and the pigs are left to the dogs. Being cubs can climb trees the dogs can't get them but the dogs run the sow. So here is my question when a sow is up a tree is there a way to tell if she has had a cub?


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## Pig Predator (Oct 3, 2020)

Tadpole23 said:


> I've never ran a bear with dogs and probably never will since I don't know anybody with bear dogs but I have run hogs. When you jump a sow with pigs she runs and the pigs are left to the dogs. Being cubs can climb trees the dogs can't get them but the dogs run the sow. So here is my question when a sow is up a tree is there a way to tell if she has had a cub?


I would think so. What do you think?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Real houndsmen dont kill sows and I have hunted with those men.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> In the last two years Ive personally separated 17 sows from their cubs just by walking around.  You internet TUFF doggers are straight up lying about the real facts of this nonsense.  There will be a large contingent of people fed up with this mess. Just stating facts.
> 
> Keep talking internet trash behind your computer to a man you have obviously never met in person if it makes you feel good and have a super day.



My feet are bleeding, my back hurts, and it’s all I can do to roll out of bed at 4:30.  I look like I’ve been in a meat grinder.  My wife says I look like a disheveled hobo because I can’t walk right and have bear blood caked in my hair and clothes every evening.  I showed the DNR that hunted with me Tuesday what it was really like and the work that went into it.  He said he’d never put so much work into hunting and then let someone else kill the bear.  I’ve tried to get kids a bear and helped an active duty military engineer from Mississippi take home a bear for his man cave.  I don’t want anything in return.
Except, I want my fellow hunters to learn some respect.  I want the same opportunity to do what I love in my state just like you are afforded.  Again,  how 
many bear have you caught with a dog?  
I believe your only 15 or 16 so I would like to warn you to be careful calling a man a liar.  Especially, hiding behind a screen name with sautee in it.  We have a saying about the valley dwellers.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

On a side note,  DNR have been great.  The Wildlife Techs and the biologists have all been very pleasant to be around.  I’m not big on the way most bear hunters operate but everyone has been good folks as far as I’ve seen.  I’d say we are done unless I can get one to lay down and die on its own tomorrow cause my dogs are eat up and beat down. Me too!


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 3, 2020)

Tadpole23 said:


> I've never ran a bear with dogs and probably never will since I don't know anybody with bear dogs but I have run hogs. When you jump a sow with pigs she runs and the pigs are left to the dogs. Being cubs can climb trees the dogs can't get them but the dogs run the sow. So here is my question when a sow is up a tree is there a way to tell if she has had a cub?


A good houndsman will know before he turns the dogs loose, and won't turn them loose.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Im 37 years old pal.  If you guys wanted to be welcomed you shouldnt have come in with a gatling gun pm’ing biology educated people like myself about how many sows you were wanting to kill. This thing couldve been handled right by both dnr and the doggers but it wasnt so expect the backlash that is coming.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

And dont threaten me.


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## jiminbogart (Oct 3, 2020)

Pig Predator said:


> I would think so. What do you think?




If that sow is killed will those cubs die or are they big enough to make it?

If the cubs get treed by the dogs do the hunters realize it or do the dogs keep going after the sow?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

The sow dies. The cubs die when winter comes.  Everyone in north ga is ok with that because they want bears gone because their Mammie cant grow sweet corn or have a bird feeder


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

And NOBODY gets deer back


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## Pig Predator (Oct 3, 2020)

jiminbogart said:


> If that sow is killed will those cubs die or are they big enough to make it?
> 
> If the cubs get treed by the dogs do the hunters realize it or do the dogs keep going after the sow?


I dont know. But I think NCHB answered your second question in post 49. I haven't been invited to a bear dog hunt yet. And only know one bear dog hunter.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Show me 5 pictures of sows in trees with cubs from this hunt. Anyone?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Or one pic


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Im 37 years old pal.  If you guys wanted to be welcomed you shouldnt have come in with a gatling gun pm’ing biology educated people like myself about how many sows you were wanting to kill. This thing couldve been handled right by both dnr and the doggers but it wasnt so expect the backlash that is coming.



“Biology educated people like myself”
Yep.  Bout sums it up.  Your the only one threatening people with backlash and the like.  How much are you gonna cry when they extend it another 2 years?  It’s baffling really,  I tree lots of Sows with cubs year round, what’s the point?  Happens to me more because I free cast and don’t track hunt.  Happens when I rig as well.  But you don’t quite understand that not even a fraction of bears treed are harvested.  During kill season, yes.  “Legal” bear means it can be shot by a hunter.  It’s easy to see you are very anti bear dogging and it’s not from a logical perspective.  It’s from a selfish perspective.  You name a state with dogging still allowed and I’ll show you a thriving bear population.  The reason you keep losing your arguments is because they are feelings over facts!  The Science proves time and time again that the use of dogs is an excellent management tool to benefit wildlife!


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## goshenmountainman (Oct 3, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Im 37 years old pal.  If you guys wanted to be welcomed you shouldnt have come in with a gatling gun pm’ing biology educated people like myself about how many sows you were wanting to kill. This thing couldve been handled right by both dnr and the doggers but it wasnt so expect the backlash that is coming.


If you don't have anything good to say, keep it to yourself. This hunt was needed and these hunters have the right to kill sows or boars and anything 75lbs. or larger. I live in the northern part of Habersham just above Sautee and myself and almost everyone up here are fed up with these dang things, I hear talk all the time of people stating they are gonna start shooting everyone they see... in the gut!! I don't know about you but I rather have someone take the bear and eat it or donate it to someone to make use of the meat than it running off and rotting. You have been against it right from the get go, if you don't hunt them then mind your own business and if you do hunt them, hunt them the way you like. You can't downgrade people for what style they hunt just because you don't like the way they hunt.. its legal and I am glad they have it, I hope they open it up statewide on all the WMA. And as far as I am concerned it was handled right and has been a great success. And this hunt is very necessary.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

It’s an open forum and Ive been against it because these people stole North Carolina and are likely to do it again.  Im also disgusted by anyone who could knowingly kill the mother of some cubs and allow them to die.  I guess that’s called “management” now but it’s all available on social media for the world to see.  

You can say whatever you want about me.  It means nothing.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

And just so we are all on the same page, you guys are openly admitting that sows are killed knowing that most of them have cubs.  Yes?  

Let’s at least be honest


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

Sweetheart,  nobody is saying anything about killing sows.  That’s your uninformed opinion.  Do you think every bow hunter that has a 200 pound sow step out of a laurel thicket waits to see if the bear has cubs?  You’ve not hunted enough to have an opinion but you sure are adamant about forcing your way on everyone else.  
You are also sadly mistaken about locals being upset over the hunt.  Bunch of high fives and hand shakes from every local we’ve met.  Some even asking for us to kill every Bear that has a pulse.  Others begging us to come kill some at their house.  It’s the non locals like yourself that are hugging the trees a little to tightly.  
And again, you are wrong about bear hunters taking over North Carolina.  The bear were in danger of the population being drastically low when the North Carolina bear hunters association was formed and pressed to enact laws that protected and nurtured the population back to the huge number it is today.  Without the Bear doggers,  bears would have been eliminated long ago because they were considered a nuisance and vermin.  Still are to many local mountain people.
I’ve never killed a cub,  I’ve never killed a sow knowing she had cubs.  I’ve never killed one under 100 pounds.  How’s that different than a bow hunter?  Interesting observation for you.  Most orphaned cubs are called about and trapped during the hot summer months when the wildlife technicians believe the mothers are hit by cars or shot out of trash cans.  Should we make it illegal to drive or throw trash out?


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Nobody?  At least man up to what you are doing. 

When I shoot one with a recurve it’s obvious there are no cubs.  If there were I wouldnt do it (AS PER THE LAW). But I guess doggers are above that


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Sweetheart?  Thats hilarious. If you met me in person you would sing a different tune.  

Dog hunters took over NC to where THERE IS NO BEAR HUNTING without dogs!  

Maybe you are the one honorable houndsman that has shown up to these hunts and if that is true, I do apologize, but these groups have been out for pure blood. I know locals want bears gone. Too bad. You live in bear country. Keep your trash inside. I live here too. Zero bear issues.


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## Mexican Squealer (Oct 3, 2020)

Ain’t sure how you mountain folk handle being called sweetheart but down hear that  would warrant an arse whippin’


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## Buckman18 (Oct 3, 2020)

Mexican Squealer said:


> Ain’t sure how you mountain folk handle being called sweetheart but down hear that  would warrant an arse whippin’



Smooches to you, Squealer!


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Oct 3, 2020)

@Heath and @Sautee Ridgerunner 

I appreciate the passion you each have for the sport.  You two need to chill right now.  No personal attacks will be tolerated.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

I graduated Warnell School of Forestry and Natural Resources at UGA in 2006 and my house is full of Auburn inlaws so I might be touchy. If so I apologize. 

My Auburn wife is super hot though


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> Sweetheart?  Thats hilarious. If you met me in person you would sing a different tune.
> 
> Dog hunters took over NC to where THERE IS NO BEAR HUNTING without dogs!
> 
> Maybe you are the one honorable houndsman that has shown up to these hunts and if that is true, I do apologize, but these groups have been out for pure blood. I know locals want bears gone. Too bad. You live in bear country. Keep your trash inside. I live here too. Zero bear issues.



You don’t feel a little arrogant making a statement like that about all bear hunters?

You bow hunt North Carolina a lot?  You want me to show you a few bear you can kill the next few weeks?  I’ve got good daylight trail camera pics of them. I’ll warn you though, if your as big a boy as you keep saying they’ll be hard for you to get to.

I hate it that you have such a loathing for dog hunters.  It’s obvious you won’t change your mind so I’ll leave you alone for now.  Just try to keep in mind that we all like different things and we all are under a lot of pressure from the outside.  The way you are working against any form of hunting is only dividing us into easier targets.  I hope you have a great season and please at least try to be happy for other hunters having success and getting an opportunity.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 3, 2020)

I’m hoping they limit dogging to wmas, and give bow hunters several weeks before they start. But I’m all for traditional methods of hunting, of which bear dogging certainly qualifies. 
Some people paint with an awfully broad brush, especially to have never went on a dog hunt.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Heath said:


> You don’t feel a little arrogant making a statement like that about all bear hunters?
> 
> You bow hunt North Carolina a lot?  You want me to show you a few bear you can kill the next few weeks?  I’ve got good daylight trail camera pics of them. I’ll warn you though, if your as big a boy as you keep saying they’ll be hard for you to get to.
> 
> I hate it that you have such a loathing for dog hunters.  It’s obvious you won’t change your mind so I’ll leave you alone for now.  Just try to keep in mind that we all like different things and we all are under a lot of pressure from the outside.  The way you are working against any form of hunting is only dividing us into easier targets.  I hope you have a great season and please at least try to be happy for other hunters having success and getting an opportunity.



ummm. Again. Im not. There is a walker hound in my lap right now. Ive hunted lions in Idaho and spent tons of time after coons with competition friends of mine. I love walker dogs more than any creature on the planet.  What I am against is armchair biologists letting a total slaughter of black bears go on in the name of management or tradition or whatever. GA’s own bear biologist said at the first public meeting that he was not in favor of this.  

Im ok with dog hunters getting a fair shake in some way but this isnt it and I think we all know that.


----------



## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 3, 2020)

Ive been on lots of dog hunts ddd.  We were required to follow the law. Ive probably let walk 30 sows with cubs in 8 years of bowhunting bears.  

This dogging stuff seems to let 0 walk.


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## strothershwacker (Oct 3, 2020)

Millions of reasons to be mad. Why pick 1? At the end of the day it just don't matter. I'm gonna try to get me 2 legally taken bear and eat everything but the anus because I love bear meat. I love deer and turkey hunting but bear and rabbit offer the best eating in the woods. If balanced correctly theres enough game to let each of us scratch our itch in our own way. I love stickbow stalking but I will occasionally break out the 30-06 to fill the freezer with good meat. If I had a dog that'd tree, I'd probably eat him too when the freezer ran empty.?


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 4, 2020)

Guys this sautee ridge guy gets ruffled often and has been on this site under many different names. Please just ignore and do not get yourselves get worked up. Not worth any of us getting kicked off the forum for. Lots of good folks on here who are humble and don't like to argue, don't let one bad egg instigate you to the point where you lose your peace of mind. Like I said way to many good things and people on this forum to let it take even a moment of your serenity. God bless and lets kill some bear!


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## Rulo (Oct 4, 2020)

Alright ......hunt wraps up today....anybody got some figures on the Bear Dog Hunt for this year.....??????

How many killed on Chestatee? How many on Chattahoochee? 
........... as of this Sunday morning October 4th? Sow to Boar ratio??????

Anybody?


----------



## Mexican Squealer (Oct 4, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> Smooches to you, Squealer!



???????


----------



## GAbullHunter (Oct 4, 2020)

What's the fallacy here now?

I'm just curious to the ratio an numbers taken. 

Still looking for some meat for the freezer. Hope to be back over the coming weekend.
Ever have a pregnant wife wanting bear meat an moose meat and can get either yet? ..?


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## Rulo (Oct 4, 2020)

crickets.


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## strothershwacker (Oct 4, 2020)

I think the doggers have been advised to stay off here or have concluded it'd be best. I can't really say I blame 'em.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Oct 4, 2020)

I dont and didn’t want to instigate anything.  I’m just at the end of my rope with GA DNR fighting biology at every turn. Id be happy to see a compromise for everyone but I doubt it’ll happen.  I know I dont see eye to eye with most hunters and Im solid with that. I stick with stickbow guys and that’ll work.  I definitely will not sit quiet while this sow killing continues unregulated but that’s the same thing I said when baiting was the topic of the day.  Baiting is the method of nearly all deer kills now. They didnt listen to me then and probably wont now but a man has to stand for principles. Doesnt seem to me they exist anymore in hunting in 2020.  

Ill leave you all to it. To the good houndsmen out there, please know I respect you all and love your chosen style.  I’d like to see this all resolved in a way that works out first and foremost for the bears. The way it’s being done now just isnt going to work in perpetuity.


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## Heath (Oct 4, 2020)

DNR Seemed pretty comfy with Adam Hammond and the girl running the study who are the biologists!  I spoke with them all pretty often and they seemed on the same page.  Seems you are the armchair biologist with a forestry degree.  Joe is right,  you live in Atlanta and have a cabin in the mountains and even stated last year you don’t hunt WMAs anymore.  Just crawl back in your hole and let us take care of ourselves and you worry about Atlanta.


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## Heath (Oct 4, 2020)

And another thing,  I’m tired of hearing all your empty accusations about about sows and Orphaning.  Call and ask the DNR when their orphan calls are at their highest.  It dang sure isn’t after hunting season.  This guy is an ANTI.  Please remove him from our midst!


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## deerpoacher1970 (Oct 4, 2020)

Ridgerunner you could not be more wrong about dog hunters,they respect the Bear population much more than you think, they know if they don't take care of the sows there won't be no bears to chase.The thrill of the chase is much more important to the dog hunter than the kill.


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## Resica (Oct 4, 2020)

An 8 or 9 month cub can't survive a Georgia winter on it's own? They can up here.


Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> The sow dies. The cubs die when winter comes.  Everyone in north ga is ok with that because they want bears gone because their Mammie cant grow sweet corn or have a bird feeder


An 8 or 9 month old cub can't survive a Georgia winter on it's own? They can up here.


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## Heath (Oct 4, 2020)

Resica said:


> An 8 or 9 month cub can't survive a Georgia winter on it's own? They can up here.
> 
> An 8 or 9 month old cub can't survive a Georgia winter on it's own? They can up here.



Resica,  he’s from Atlanta.  He lives 70 miles from the nearest good bear habitat and doesn’t know the first thing about a bear, bear hunting, dog hunting, or mountains in general.  He bought a cabin in our local yuppy community and is trying to bring that nonsense into our rural area.  If you let people talk long enough they will tell on themselves.  Joe nailed this one.  Hats of to Joe!

We killed a 230 pound sow that was dry or barren this week.  I think a few collared bears were killed and I know a few with tags were. There were 47 checked in as of this morning and I don’t know if there were more as it was early when he went and asked.  Either way, that’s only 14 shy of last year so close enough to say the population from outside had filled the void from last years harvest numbers.  Pretty interesting stuff from the girl doing the research.

I also found where a good bear has made it through this morning and spent a better part of the morning trying to figure out where he went to no avail.  I may have got him up but the dogs were leaving the WMA and headed toward a highway and I had to tone them off.  Didn’t hurt my feelings to leave some for seed!


----------



## NCMTNHunter (Oct 5, 2020)

greg_n_clayton said:


> Is "breaking Ivy" popular in that part of the country ? It use to be very popular around here ! But that is probably for another thread/topic !



When I was a kid everybody broke Ivey for extra money. The leaves had to be flawless. Waxy looking with no brown spots or they wouldn’t take them. There was a old Greek man that came around and picked up everyone’s Ivey and hauled to florist shops in New York City. I’m drawing a blank on the guys name but he walked with a real bad limp. They used the Ivey breaks for Christmas decorations.  As far as I know that market is gone and everyone cuts laurel and Ivey forks for handrail pickets for fancy houses.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 5, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> ummm. Again. Im not. There is a walker hound in my lap right now. Ive hunted lions in Idaho and spent tons of time after coons with competition friends of mine. I love walker dogs more than any creature on the planet.  What I am against is armchair biologists letting a total slaughter of black bears go on in the name of management or tradition or whatever. GA’s own bear biologist said at the first public meeting that he was not in favor of this.
> 
> Im ok with dog hunters getting a fair shake in some way but this isnt it and I think we all know that.


So what's your solution? You're the "one who knows more than the biologists" so please share with us your plan for bear hunting in Georgia. 
Seriously. I'd like to hear it.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 5, 2020)

Sautee Ridgerunner said:


> It’s an open forum and Ive been against it because these people stole North Carolina and are likely to do it again.  Im also disgusted by anyone who could knowingly kill the mother of some cubs and allow them to die.  I guess that’s called “management” now but it’s all available on social media for the world to see.
> 
> You can say whatever you want about me.  It means nothing.


You have a very twisted view of hound hunting, and obviously don't know the first thing about it, except for making up unfounded statements of the way you think things are, and making unfounded accusations against peoples' characters, simply because they don't hunt the same way you do.

First of all, nobody "stole" NC. Hound hunting here is a strong tradition dating back hundreds of years. I grew up in a multi-generational hound hunting family, and spent a lot of years doing it myself. Most of the hound hunters that I've been around, lived as neighbors with, and are blood kin to (lots of them,) are some of the truest sportsmen I have ever hunted with. I have NEVER seen a hound hunter kill a sow with cubs, and if he did, nobody would ever hunt with him again. It just isn't done, it is not only illegal, it is taboo in the community. As a matter of fact, I know a couple guys who will tree ten-fifteen  bears a year and not shoot a one of them. They just enjoy watching and listening to the hounds work.

Bear hunting with hounds does nothing to hurt the population. Bears have been hunted here with hounds since the 1700s, and there are more bears now than there ever were. The population keeps growing and spreading year after year. And there is no group of people out there who care more about bears and having a healthy population of them than the houndsmen, I can assure you of that.

Would I like to see part of the season here with no dogs running? Yep. Would I want hound hunting to end here? Absolutely NO WAY. It is a long, great tradition, and a lot would be lost if it ever went away.

Sounds to me like you just have a problem with rural mountain folks, and think they are somehow less intelligent and morally inferior to you and your ways. What would you say to the several (highly educated) local wildlife biologists I know who bear hunt with hounds? Are they not "biology educated" enough to suit you, because they don't live in the suburbs and speak like the anchorman on the tv? Maybe you shouldn't base your opinions of a whole group of people by watching that Deliverance movie. Shocking for some to learn, but it wasn't a documentary.


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## Dan DeBord (Oct 5, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> You have a very twisted view of hound hunting, and obviously don't know the first thing about it, except for making up unfounded statements of the way you think things are, and making unfounded accusations against peoples' characters, simply because they don't hunt the same way you do.
> 
> First of all, nobody "stole" NC. Hound hunting here is a strong tradition dating back hundreds of years. I grew up in a muti-generational hound hunting family, and spent a lot of years doing it myself. Most of the hound hunters that I've been around, lived as neighbors with, and are blood kin to (lots of them,) are some of the truest sportsmen I have ever hunted with. I have NEVER seen a hound hunter kill a sow with cubs, and if he did, nobody would ever hunt with him again. It just isn't done, it is not only illegal, it is taboo in the community. As a matter of fact, I know a couple guys who will tree ten-fifteen  bears a year and not shoot a one of them. They just enjoy watching and listening to the hounds work.
> 
> ...


VERY well said. I come from a long line of hound hunters and appreciate the effort and dedication hound hunters have. I still hunt squirrel and raccoon with Mountain Cur dogs. Too old to run big game anymore.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Oct 5, 2020)

A houndsman is the very last person that wants to see game killed off or scares. Rabbit, coon, Fox, quail,grouse, pheasant , woodcock or bear don’t really matter, It’s about the chase, most are some of the best game conservationist you will meet.


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## splatek (Oct 5, 2020)

splatek said:


> I guess I just want to see a bear down....
> Anybody know if the bear doggers are having any better luck than us still hunting guys?
> I've heard from one guy I know on a team and the report was that they hadn't done too well over the weekend. That was early yesterday so that might have changed...
> 
> Anybody heard anything about the success rate of the bear dog hunt?



So, I was just interested in hearing the numbers....  and seeing some good bears. 
Thanks @Buckman18 for the pictures you posted. 

Being new I do wish I had a few more weeks to stroll around those areas with my bow, but that's my fault for scouting those areas, knowing there was a dog-bear hunt coming. I guess I was just so dang confident in my spots (stupid rookie mistake) that I didn't think it would matter. 
Clearly folks feel very strongly about this - I think a trump supporter and a biden supporter might be able to get along better... LOL
I would love to sit down and learn about dogging. I love dogs, but did not come from an outdoors family; I have a dog that oughtta be running something - catahoula cur - I just love that breed, but I don't have the training or knowledge to get him or any other dog on game.
I think dog-bear hunting is here to stay... there has to a be common ground that rises above name calling and personal attacks, right?


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

Splatek,  there’s no such thing as sitting and learning about hunting with a dog.  That’s what’s got us in the predicament we are in.  More people sitting around and making assumptions and accusations than participating and learning the facts.  I had 2 brand new hound hunting people and 2 that had done very little with me for a big portion of the week.  The 2 newbies both shook my hand and told me the hunt was far more work and way harder than they had anticipated.  

I consider myself a dog man,  if it can be hunted with a dog I love it!  Most people will never understand the trials and tribulations involved and I challenge anyone who thinks it’s unfair or an advantageous method.  Go buy a puppy and train up a dog to catch your desired game.  When that dog turns 3 years old and you have 1,000 days of work and training put into it.  Share your experience and photos of all the wild game you’ve caught.  

I have 20 years invested in my dogs so far.  I rarely kill a bear.  I’ve caught somewhere around 25-30 this year and 4 were harvested.  Only 1 of those by me.  Not a single one caused a cub to be orphaned or was illegally taken.  I want bear to prosper.  A dead bear leaves no tracks!


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

158 pound boar killed by a first time hound hunter and active duty military from Mississippi.  He’s a revolver hunter only and did a fine job.


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

Big dry or barren sow the biologist said could be either one.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Oct 5, 2020)

Heath said:


> Big dry or barren sow the biologist said could be either one.View attachment 1042265


Whole pack of curs dogs ?


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## greg_n_clayton (Oct 5, 2020)

Heath said:


> 158 pound boar killed by a first time hound hunter and active duty military from Mississippi.  He’s a revolver hunter only and did a fine job.View attachment 1042264


Are those Kemmer dogs.


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

Hitching a piggy back ride 1.1 miles as the crow flies back to the road.  Man I love my Mystery Ranch pop up!


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Whole pack of curs dogs ?



Yes sir, ain’t no hounds or hound blood at least the last 20 years we’ve had them.  Mostly Kemmers but we’ve got a few Kemmer/Blackmouth and Kemmer/Airedale crosses.


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

greg_n_clayton said:


> Are those Kemmer dogs.


Most of them.


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

The six pack gives every bear a choice.  It can climb easy or die hard!


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 5, 2020)

Heath awesome pictures!!!!!! That's what it's all about!!!!!!


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Oct 5, 2020)

@Heath  You got any idea of how many miles you covered during the hunt?


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> @Heath  You got any idea of how many miles you covered during the hunt?



No sir, I didn’t keep up with it.  It was a bunch though.  Dogs were pretty well spent by Wednesday and we took Thursday off.  I was feeling the effects as well so I welcomed the rest.  We are a little unorthodox about our hunting in that we don’t ride roads.  We walk hunt 100% and leave the truck at daylight and don’t pack dogs into bear races.  Ours start and finish a bear or we go hungry.  We got  outrun some and we had a cold track that petered out one morning.  Overall, the dogs were great, the hunting was great, the fellowship and people were great.  Lots of fun was had.


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## greg_n_clayton (Oct 5, 2020)

Heath said:


> Yes sir, ain’t no hounds or hound blood at least the last 20 years we’ve had them.  Mostly Kemmers but we’ve got a few Kemmer/Blackmouth and Kemmer/Airedale crosses.


I only got one cur. A Ladner. I have became partial to em ! Very smart and obedient.


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## Whit90 (Oct 5, 2020)

congrats @Heath ! looks like a lot of fun and hard work.


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## Dan DeBord (Oct 5, 2020)

The Six Pack  a good lookin outfit . I owned some Kemmer's that were track drivers.


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## Heath (Oct 5, 2020)

Thank you sir. They’ve been good to us for a long time.  They are like anything else, there’s sorry ones in all breeds but when you get a good Kemmer they will spoil you.


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## tree cutter 08 (Oct 6, 2020)

Enjoyed the pictures! Good times and meat in the freezer is what it's all about.


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## Rabun (Oct 6, 2020)

That's got to be one of the most exciting hunts around. Congratulations to all those that participated!  Maybe some of the void can be filled by some deer


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

Just saw the spreadsheet.  53 total.  30-Chestatee and 23-Chattahoochee.


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## splatek (Oct 6, 2020)

Heath said:


> Just saw the spreadsheet.  53 total.  30-Chestatee and 23-Chattahoochee.



Where is that spreadsheet located? I can't believe more were taken from Chestatee than Hooch. That does not jive with past years in my analysis, but totally cool!


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## twoheartedale (Oct 6, 2020)

Heath said:


> Resica,  he’s from Atlanta.  He lives 70 miles from the nearest good bear habitat and doesn’t know the first thing about a bear, bear hunting, dog hunting, or mountains in general.  He bought a cabin in our local yuppy community and is trying to bring that nonsense into our rural area.  If you let people talk long enough they will tell on themselves.  Joe nailed this one.  Hats of to Joe!



You forgot left wing liberal Biden supporter nutjob.

Sounds like two hunters who are passionate about bear hunting.  One with a bow and the other with dogs/guns.  Good luck gents.

Speaking from experience last year I saw over 20 bears in 2 days on Chattahoochee. This year NONE.  Take it for what it's worth.


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## twoheartedale (Oct 6, 2020)

Sounds like a big decline from Bear/Dog hunt number of kills.  You'd have to be a fool if you don't think Bear/Dog hunters are responsible for the decline.  

Guess DNR got the results they wanted.  I am not sure this will bring back the deer numbers.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

Big decline?  You think 8 less is a big decline?  I bow hunt bear more than dog hunt them.  I haven’t had any problem seeing bear.  Take it for what it’s worth.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

splatek said:


> Where is that spreadsheet located? I can't believe more were taken from Chestatee than Hooch. That does not jive with past years in my analysis, but totally cool!



don’t know where you’d find it,  was emailed to me by higher ups.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

twoheartedale said:


> Sounds like a big decline from Bear/Dog hunt number of kills.  You'd have to be a fool if you don't think Bear/Dog hunters are responsible for the decline.
> 
> Guess DNR got the results they wanted.  I am not sure this will bring back the deer numbers.



There was no decline.  The bear for certain ran much harder and I have never had Georgia bears bail out of trees and run like they did this week.  One group had 15 races and only caught 5 bear.  That’s almost unreal here cause most our bears are pop ups due to no pressure.  The number couldn’t have been any more similar to last years harvest when you take into account the bears that were educated last year.

Again,  bear were everywhere.  Food was abundant.  If you can’t kill a bear on those two WMAs you have other problems than blaming others for your failures!


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 6, 2020)

Awesome!!!!! Sounds like there are plenty of bears to spread around even after last year!!!! Btw there were 0 bears killed w/ bows year before last so the dogs seem to be doing a great job of what us still hunters have not been able to do. Keep up the dog hunts I'm sure they most certainly will after they look at these identical numbers back to back.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 6, 2020)

@Heath I'm going to put in next year again, use preference point from previous year. Just let me ride on the hood of your truck w/ the dogs just want to see what it's like lol!


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## twoheartedale (Oct 6, 2020)

Wow.  Little sensitive?  Chill dude.  Just sharing my opinion.  

Fact:  Dog/Bear hunters kill more than bow hunters.  Not sure how else you can take that. 

Who said I can't kill a bear?  I am simply stating my observation on Chatt. WMA the past few years.  

Enjoy.  I don't have a dog in this fight and have no issues with dog/hunters.  We ran dogs for years on our club for deer and currently run dogs for hogs.

Argue with your sweetheart yuppy friend.


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## Buckman18 (Oct 6, 2020)

twoheartedale said:


> Sounds like a big decline from Bear/Dog hunt number of kills.  You'd have to be a fool if you don't think Bear/Dog hunters are responsible for the decline.
> 
> Guess DNR got the results they wanted.  I am not sure this will bring back the deer numbers.



Help me understand where there is a 'big decline?'

You seeing fewer bears is a product of year over year changes in acorn production causing bears to be distributed over a wider area, and a lack of effective scouting. Until Labor Day when acorns started coming into play, my bear sightings were much higher in 2020 vs 2019. Bow season this year has been more challenging but ive still seen bears. My dog-bear team had excellent hunts in 19 and in 20. This year, though, the bears ran longer and fought harder, and we had to work very hard.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

That would be great Joe!

Put your thinking cap on now.  I’m gonna summarize what the biologists results are gonna show when she publishes her research after peer review.

This is all my opinion! 
People have to understand first that these 2 tracts of land are controls and virtually the same plot of ground.  They were treated as one 50,000 acre tract.  It tells me that on any given 9 day span during this time of year there can be 53-61 bear harvested.  But, it gets better.  The harvest trend even mirrored last year in the fact that the first few days were slow and then numbers picked up.  Now, many things factor in to this.  Hunter familiarity with the land improves making them more efficient. Could be weather and bear movement etc.... you get my point.  Taking those factors aside,  let’s think about just bear.

The home range of bear is well documented and shows sows maintaining a much smaller home range often consisting of family unit ranges overlapping with sows. Boars being forced out to establish their own new ranges in most cases.  My take away is that when confined to one tract hunters will most certainly impact sow numbers more heavily because of sow density being greater than boar density.  It seems to me that after the first few days hunters disrupt normal movement within resident bear ranges.  Some are killed and the collared bear show that some flee the area entirely.  When those bear flee they create a ripple effect that causes bear movement on the outside and no doubt some of those move into vacant ranges within the WMA.  Think of it like Lake Russell deer hunts.  So many people cause deer to move erratically and bump deer all day and a man never knows when or where he might run into a deer he normally would not have seen because it was nocturnal.  The numbers show that bear will fill in the voids left by harvest over a years time.  The sow to boar ratio also reflects the known data that fewer boars live in a given area than sows.  The number of 53 will most certainly not effect North Georgia’s overall harvest numbers adversely at least from a percentage standpoint.  However, it allows a controlled Harvest in which the biologists can guesstimate within a few bear of what they can certainly take out of a controlled area with this management tool.  I believe there were 2 or 3 bear taken over 400lbs. This week.  That’s certainly a lot bigger bear than were killed last year.  I don’t believe that is a direct effect of only one years harvest but a case can be made that the population is healthy and the bear were healthier this year.

I believe the data will show an amazing similarity between the data of both years.  It also allowed the harvest of quite a few nuisance bears that have been costing us all money and now the state is making money off them.  

Despite many people whining about it,  this hunt has been a major success for the bear, the state, the locals, and hunters alike.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

twoheartedale said:


> Wow.  Little sensitive?  Chill dude.  Just sharing my opinion.
> 
> Fact:  Dog/Bear hunters kill more than bow hunters.  Not sure how else you can take that.
> 
> ...



No sir, not touchy.  I will stand behind facts and scientific data over anecdotal evidence.  The world has gone crazy lately and I’m done letting people’s feelings dictate reality.


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## CornStalker (Oct 6, 2020)

I think having a chat room discussion on a topic so complicated and nuanced is bound to create more unnecessary division than probably exists....


----------



## CornStalker (Oct 6, 2020)

Heath said:


> No sir, not touchy.  I will stand behind facts and scientific data over anecdotal evidence.  The world has gone crazy lately and I’m done letting people’s feelings dictate reality.


Hunters are undoubtably the undisputed champions of offering anecdotal evidence. That’s clearly shown on every hunting (and trapping) chat room in the internet. ? And before that it was the local canteen or hunting club lodge.


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## splatek (Oct 6, 2020)

Heath said:


> That would be great Joe!
> 
> Put your thinking cap on now.  I’m gonna summarize what the biologists results are gonna show when she publishes her research after peer review.
> 
> ...



Being a science nerd I can't wait to read the report. 
Thanks for this!


----------



## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

CornStalker said:


> I think having a chat room discussion on a topic so complicated and nuanced is bound to create more unnecessary division than probably exists....



I can see where you might come to that conclusion.  I would say there has always been unnecessary division.  The internet just brings a broader audience to the discussion.  Still hunters have always hated hound hunting for one reason or another.


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## Heath (Oct 6, 2020)

splatek said:


> Being a science nerd I can't wait to read the report.
> Thanks for this!



I don’t remember when she said it would be published.  But, I can’t wait to see what comes of it


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## CornStalker (Oct 7, 2020)

Heath said:


> I can see where you might come to that conclusion.  I would say there has always been unnecessary division.  The internet just brings a broader audience to the discussion.  Still hunters have always hated hound hunting for one reason or another.


There’s always opportunities for division. The quarry, the method, or the weapon. Hunters are unfortunately just like all other human beings in that we’ll find something to divide us. I think it’s important for hunters to understand other hunters and try our best to support one another. I’ll probably never own bear dogs, but I think it’s an important method of hunting to preserve and protect. The growing anti-hunting crowd will go after dog hunting first because it’s a small group and it’s easy to twist the narrative of using hounds to chase game (though it’s perfectly ethical). But then they will come after all Bear hunters. And then the rest of hunters eventually. It’s happening in California, New Jersey and other states. I think hound hunters have an important story and narrative to tell, and they need more folks that are willing to share it on platforms that will be seen outside of the small, rural mountain communities. So as much as we like to make fun of the yuppies from Atlanta, we need them as fellow hunters and allies. Just sharing some of thoughts...sorry for getting long winded.


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## Doug B. (Oct 7, 2020)

I have tried it all. I love dog hunting for bears.   I love still hunting for bears with either a bow or gun.  I love baiting bears (where legal).  Maybe try someone else's method before you pass judgement on it.   If it is legal, why fight it?


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## splatek (Oct 8, 2020)

They’re still there...


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## chrislibby88 (Oct 9, 2020)

CornStalker said:


> I think having a chat room discussion on a topic so complicated and nuanced is bound to create more unnecessary division than probably exists....


Might change some minds too. I started out slightly ignorant and honestly a little worried about the seemingly high dog bear harvest, but the more I read the more I calm down.
Not that I was ever opposed to dog hunting, hound hunters need a season and I 100% would tag along with a dog hunt if I had the opportunity, the numbers from last year were just sorta shocking.


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## Doug B. (Oct 9, 2020)

They wouldn't be if you lived here and seen first hand the amount of bears there are here.


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