# I have seven hides, now what?



## Glock Master (Oct 23, 2011)

I have seven deer hides fresh off the deer. I have them all soaking in a 55 gallon drum right now. I want to really focus on one hide and do the tanning process all the way through. What should I do next? I have a bag of hydrated lime. How much should I mix for those hides? How long do I soak it before I flesh? Any advice?
Hunter


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 24, 2011)

I would either freeze them or flesh and dry them and do one or two at a time. Seven hides are a lot to do at once, especially if this is your first try.


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## Glock Master (Oct 24, 2011)

*Fleshing*

Should I soak them in lime first before I flesh? and then soak them in vinigar. Or should I wait untill after fleshing before I soak in lime?


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## TNGIRL (Oct 24, 2011)

Like Steve said.....I would flesh out one or two at a time. Don't put lime or vinegar on any at this point.  The others I would hang(short time) and let them drain and dry some then roll up well (one at a time) and put in several layers of bags in the freezer. Change them out until you have them all fleshed out, and waiting for you from the freezer.  Decide if you want the hair left on or not. Get back on here when you have that done......there are lots of fine folks to tell you what to do once that's completed. Good Luck!!!!


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## Trefer (Oct 24, 2011)

Good advice so far. Definitely go one at  time. Probably won't be able to save any "hair on" if they've been soaking, especially with flesh still on.  First step always is fleshing-normally can do without soaking first if its a fresh hide.  Lime/lye comes later.


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## trial&error (Oct 24, 2011)

you have 7 hides now the real work begins.


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## Glock Master (Oct 31, 2011)

*Progress*

I decided to focus on one hide because my friend can get me as many as I want.So far I have 

1. Fleshed It
2. Soaked It in hydrated lime/water for three days
3. De haired it
4. Neutralized the hide by soaking in vinagar water for three days.

What is the next step that I should take?
Thanks,
Hunter


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## Trefer (Oct 31, 2011)

Sounds like you are on the right track so far.  Big question first, tho --- when you 'de-haired' the skin, did you go deep enough to remove the grain layer, just below the hair?  If the hide soaked 3 days it should've come off pretty easily with the hair.  That needs to come off to make you hide easy to brain/break -- and make it as soft as possible.  Some folks miss this step -- and just take off the hair, leaving the grain.  Also very important to go over the flesh side again real well to remove any remaining membrane (thin layer of tissue under the fat).

If you DID remove the grain, check to see if the hide is nice and stretchy, thin like a t-shirt in the neutralizing (it is possible to over-acidify one if you use too much vinegar).  If all is good, then its ready for brains.  If you aren't able to brain it now, you can wring and freeze, or hang to dry - it will keep indefinitely either way until you are ready. 
Mix your brains (well, not YOURS, but the one you are using) up in a 5 gallon bucket with about a gallon of warm water....mix very well, breaking up all the small pieces of brain.  Put the wrung out, and pulled open hide into the mixture and work it around....knead it like dough for 10 - 15 minutes.   Take it out and wring the devil out of it (put your brain bucket under the hide to catch the wringings), pull open, back into the brains, knead and let soak 15 - 20 min.  Repeat, Repeat, repeat...Best to brain twice and break once!  The object is to make sure you have enough brain oil penetrated onto all the skin fibers so allow the glue to relax.   Thats the only way to get the hide to stretch  - no stretch=no soft. I usually take about 2 hours or so to brain/stretch/repeat my hides....
Then the work begins...


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## Glock Master (Oct 31, 2011)

*grain*

How do I know if the grain came off with the hair. Could I scrape both sides again just to make sure?


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## Trefer (Oct 31, 2011)

when you were scraping the hair, there should've been another layer of skin coming off, too.  I'm not familiar how lime affects the hide, but with lye it swells up and gets kinda rubbery.  The grain comes off like peeling a ripe pear - its thick and easy to see.  
Did you notice a thin layer of skin coming off either by itself or attached to the hair roots? Look real closely at the hair side of the skin and see if it all looks like its one 'layer' or if its kind of 'mottled' with places where it looks like part of it has been scraped off. Maybe post some close up photos?
Once you neutralize in the water/vinegar, the effects of the lime/lye are gone.  Trying to grain now would be a tough job.
You can always go ahead and brain it as is.  You CAN soften one with the grain still one (furs always have the grain remaining on the hide) --  it'll just be a little more work and have a different finished look.  Might be a good learning experience, tho, just to try it to see how it goes.


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## SELFBOW (Oct 31, 2011)

I have only brained two hides so far and am not an expert but I have "bucked" half a dozen. Here's some pics to show what you are looking for when graining etc...

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=594272&highlight=


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## Glock Master (Nov 1, 2011)

*grain*

My camera is broken but I can explain what I am doing with the hide. I did not grain when I took the hair off. I took hair off and now I am in process of graining. I dont know if I am taking too much off of the hide during graining. It was thick and white and before I grained and now it is translucent and tanish color. Did I go to far?


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## Trefer (Nov 1, 2011)

It sounds like you are doing it right!  If you are using a tool that isn't sharp, its almost impossible to go too far.  What is happening is that the two layers are separating from each  other (facilitated by the lye/lime).  You are not cutting off the grain, just wedging you tool under it, between it and the fiber layer, and separating the layers where they 'attach'......If you tool isn't sharp, then you can't really go 'too far' -- you can scrape and scrape until the grain is gone - all that's left is the fiber network. And that's a good thing!
Now if you are using a sharp tool --- thats another story....


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## Glock Master (Nov 6, 2011)

*Hide Done ish...*

Well I brained my hide very well and then softened it for ever.... When It dried, It was soft in most spots but in some spots, mainly the spots that dried yellow(possibly unremoved epidermis) It dried hard, regardless of the softening process. What could I do to remove the yellow stuff and maby rebain those spots that are hard or maby just wet and soften again, I dont know what to do. Any advice?


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## deersled (Nov 6, 2011)

I would rebrain it and work the spots with your scraper again and see if anything comes off. I've only done about 8 hides but one thing I have discovered is the hide has to be completely (and I mean completely) dry when you stop. If it is cool to the touch...it aint dry and those spots will be a little stiff. Again, there are several people on here who know waaaay more than me, but thats what I would do.


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## SELFBOW (Nov 7, 2011)

Make sure to smoke it before rebraining


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## Glock Master (Nov 7, 2011)

*Why smoke+ How*

why should I smoke it before I rebrain? And how should I go about doing so? Thanks
Hunter


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## farmer (Nov 8, 2011)

Smoking before rebraining will help the brains penetrate and will preserve any softness but it's not necessary.  To smoke it, sew or glue (glue will not stick to stiff skin) its edges to each other to form a tube that's open only at the bottom.  Keeping the hind end up works better.  Then sew a denim skirt or pant leg to the bottom.  I try to find huge skirts at the thrift store... The bigger the bottom opening, the easier to work with.  You can either hang your skin over a fire in a hole in the ground or on a stove pipe.  Keep the skin sack as open as possible to expose the whole skin to smoke.  Putting a stick or 2 inside helps to open it up.  Leave small holes (1 inch or so) at the top corners so the smoke will draw.  The key is letting the fire burn as hot as you can without scorching the skin.  Too hot for your hand is too hot for the skin.  I like to use a wall tent stove.  I'll let a small fire burn to coals and then throw wood shavings, chips or pine straw into it.  Green pine straw is a fairly safe bet, but it will produce a buckskin that is anywhere from light gray to almost black depending on how long you smoke.  Make sure your fuel is dry and not too sappy (don't use pine).  As soon as the fire flares up, I close the vents.  Most folks recommend using punky wood, which is a sound recommendation for your first few skins, but a hotter fire will smoke the skin faster.  And if you use a hole in the ground, don't do it after a recent rain.  You'll just be spinning your wheels steaming your skin and you'll get very little smoke.


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## Trefer (Nov 9, 2011)

good advice from farmer.  i often use punky pine though.  just gotta make sure there are no hard pieces that might have pitch. needs to be crumbly kinda like styrofoam.  If you use sticks inside the hide to hold it open, move them around occasionally. if you leave them in the same place the whole time you'll probably have little unsmoked places where the sticks were touching the  hide.  
and never --NEVER -- leave it unattended. it takes about 1/2 second to flare up and burn the skin -- 'deer rinds' usually aren't the desired end product of all your hard work
post some pics!


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## Glock Master (Jan 3, 2012)

*Pics*

Hey guys sorry it has been so long for pics. This is my first hide. It has stiff spots( the darker spots in the skin) Any advice ore comments. I bought the book, Deer skins to buckskins by Matt Richards and I am going to try again.


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## deersled (Jan 4, 2012)

I would say those brown areas are where some grain did not get removed or there was still some moisture in the hide when you stopped working it. Also, I have found if you don't make sure that puppy is "completely, 100%" dry it will have a "papery" feel to it the next day (don't ask me how I know). If it is cool to the touch....at all......it still has moisture in it and it will dry a little stiff. Get it wet again and try to see if any of the brown stuff will come off. Re-brain and work it until it is "bone dry". Looks real close. Good job.
p.s. I am no expert by any means. See what some of the real buckskin makers have to say. Haha.


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## Trefer (Jan 4, 2012)

deersled said:


> I would say those brown areas are where some grain did not get removed or there was still some moisture in the hide when you stopped working it. Also, I have found if you don't make sure that puppy is "completely, 100%" dry it will have a "papery" feel to it the next day (don't ask me how I know). If it is cool to the touch....at all......it still has moisture in it and it will dry a little stiff. Get it wet again and try to see if any of the brown stuff will come off. Re-brain and work it until it is "bone dry". Looks real close. Good job.
> p.s. I am no expert by any means. See what some of the real buckskin makers have to say. Haha.



x2 -- good advice. Rebrain!  Don't think you got it good enough.  how many times did you wring? and work it past the point of being dry - just to be sure!


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## Glock Master (Jan 4, 2012)

Well when I was working it, I used a rope instead of a cable. I felt like I was going to wear holes in it or something. Can this be avoided. I wrung it out three times.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 4, 2012)

Lookin` at the brown spots, are you sure you got all the hypodermis and epidermis off, durin` the scrapin` process?


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## Glock Master (Jan 4, 2012)

Not really, I was kinda just doing it from advice on here and I did not really know what that stuff was. I am going to rebrain and re soften this hide with 12 eggs mixed with water. I will try to scrape some of the crap off of there in between steps. Is there any classes comming up that I can come and bring what I have and ask questions? I am trying to figure out if my draw knife is to sharp how do I know?


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## Nicodemus (Jan 4, 2012)

Ritchie and Ben both teach classes. I`ll ask Ben tomorrow when he plans on another one. You might want to check with Ritchie (Trefer). He might be closer.


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## Glock Master (Jan 4, 2012)

Ok thanks! I am ready do do another if I can get ahold of another hide.


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## deersled (Jan 4, 2012)

I've always been told you should be able to run your finger across the blade and not worry about cutting yourself. Remember, you are trying to push the grain/epidermis off, not slice it off. You can also hit some of the brown areas, before you get it wet and as it starts to dry, with some sandpaper or pumice stone to try and break it up. As it dries pay extra attention to those brown areas and don't let them get dry without stretching. I have resorted to using a frame because its easier for me to ensure that I work/stretch the entire hide as it dries. Its a pain in the rear to frame and you lose a little edge (with the holes), but so far, its the only way I can get a consistantly soft hide.


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