# Oconee National Foresst what happened to the population?



## creekside (Apr 5, 2018)

The population is getting worse on the ONF!  We have covered some miles this week and can't hardly even find a track.


----------



## Gut_Pile (Apr 5, 2018)

No one knows


----------



## Scrub Buck (Apr 5, 2018)

What you are seeing is the result of extreme over hunting.  The place is hammered to death by a crowd that shoots any/every legal bird they see by what ever means they deem necessary to do it.


----------



## Sixes (Apr 5, 2018)

It's not just there, its all over middle central GA. Opening weekend, I hunted a quail plantation in Laurens/Bleckley county that used to have a great population. It has dwindled severely the last 3-4 years and this year was devoid of birds anywhere. Not just on the plantation but in the whole surrounding areas. Normally, we would see birds in fields all around the counties and on the back roads, but we saw zero anywhere in the area.


Over killing gobblers and hunting pressure has nothing to do with what is going on, something is killing the hens. No hens mean NO turkeys


----------



## DEERFU (Apr 5, 2018)

nest predators taking a toll


----------



## B. White (Apr 5, 2018)

Sixes said:


> It's not just there, its all over middle central GA. Opening weekend, I hunted a quail plantation in Laurens/Bleckley county that used to have a great population. It has dwindled severely the last 3-4 years and this year was devoid of birds anywhere. Not just on the plantation but in the whole surrounding areas. Normally, we would see birds in fields all around the counties and on the back roads, but we saw zero anywhere in the area.
> 
> 
> Over killing gobblers and hunting pressure has nothing to do with what is going on, something is killing the hens. No hens mean NO turkeys



Yep, same where we are, and I'm not all that far from ONF.  Very few killed over the past few years during the season.  When I first started hunting this area I have seen as many as 50 at a time during deer season.  Not now.  Last week I walked a few miles just looking to see if there were tracks and droppings where I would regularly see them three years ago.  There was almost no sign.  The only thing I have noticed over these years was that the armadillo population trended up.  I posted during deer season that I hadn't seen any this past year, which is unusual, and haven't during this spring.  It will be interesting next spring to see if there is any correlation, depending on turkey sign.  I also see a lot more crows than I did in the 80s/90s.  Lots of folks shot them regularly back then.  They may take more eggs than we realize.


----------



## DLH_Woodstock (Apr 5, 2018)

Whiteboy said:


> Yep, same where we are, and I'm not all that far from ONF.  Very few killed over the past few years during the season.  When I first started hunting this area I have seen as many as 50 at a time during deer season.  Not now.  Last week I walked a few miles just looking to see if there were tracks and droppings where I would regularly see them three years ago.  There was almost no sign.  The only thing I have noticed over these years was that the armadillo population trended up.  I posted during deer season that I hadn't seen any this past year, which is unusual, and haven't during this spring.  It will be interesting next spring to see if there is any correlation, depending on turkey sign.  I also see a lot more crows than I did in the 80s/90s.  Lots of folks shot them regularly back then.  They may take more eggs than we realize.




I don't know about ONF, but Raccoons Opossum Armadillo and coyotes all destroy nest and can kill hens and poults. With a growing coyote raccoon opossum and armadillo population Turkey and fawn populations will most likely fall.


----------



## spurrs and racks (Apr 6, 2018)

*armadillo.........*

"armadillo species forage in the early morning and evening hours for a variety of invertebrates and insects, including beetles, grubs, and worms. Because, like many burrowing animals, armadillos tend to have extremely poor eyesight, their hunting skills rely on their abilities to smell their food."

...is not an egg or pullet predator.

I've been trying to figure out if he eats fire ants. 

s&r


----------



## PappyHoel (Apr 6, 2018)

It's been managed


----------



## XIronheadX (Apr 6, 2018)

spurrs and racks said:


> "armadillo species forage in the early morning and evening hours for a variety of invertebrates and insects, including beetles, grubs, and worms. Because, like many burrowing animals, armadillos tend to have extremely poor eyesight, their hunting skills rely on their abilities to smell their food."
> 
> ...is not an egg or pullet predator.
> 
> ...



I'm wondering if they crawl through nests they smell and break the eggs. If I run across a nest a camera is going on it. I haven't seen an armadillo in a year. After seeing them every year for 20. I'm puzzled.


----------



## creekside (Apr 6, 2018)

we saw turkeys once during deer season.  you used to see them every time you hunted.


----------



## Struttin'-n-Drummin' (Apr 6, 2018)

I read the article in last months GON where the population was discussed.   I disagree with the writer on the aspects regarding population in that article.  In the areas I hunt, the population is way down.  I base that on my hearing / seeing them in the woods, tracks, scratchings and trail camera photos.


----------



## mguthrie (Apr 6, 2018)

We are seeing just the opposite on our club in Lauren's/Johnson counties. I've hunted 7 days so far and heard gobbles every morning. We've killed 5 toms and had another one missed. We are having our best hunting in years


----------



## DEERFU (Apr 6, 2018)

Lots of nest predators in the area!


----------



## Sixes (Apr 6, 2018)

Y'all keep wanting to blame the predators but the plantation that we hunt is roughly 9800 acres and is strictly managed for quail. It is under an intense trapping program for all predators. I haven't seen an armadillo in several years, nor coons or possums. There are some yotes and cats, but no more than anywhere else in the state and probably less.

The property has all the food a game animal would need throughout the year. AG fields, hardwoods, longleaf pines and even sod fields. All the game are thriving, even the eagle pair that have been there for years. Native quail are the goal of the property and you cannot hunt without either seeing or hearing quail all day. There are lots of 2-3 acre brood fields that the quail thrive in and the turkeys used to use these areas all day. 

A few years ago, it was common to hear multiple gobblers every day and to see groups of turkeys all over the property and the surrounding farms.

If it is a predator issue, I do not see how the quail are avoiding the problem. I think that something else is happening to the hens.


----------



## PappyHoel (Apr 6, 2018)

I keep hearing we need more hunters.


----------



## fountain (Apr 6, 2018)

I keep hearing that there is no problem.  Everything is just fine the say...


----------



## dark horse (Apr 6, 2018)

Folks,  it's the chicken crap.  Next.


----------



## SwampMoss (Apr 6, 2018)

I agree the numbers have dropped every where I hunt.  I think it is over predation(Hunters, coyotes, raccoons and birds of Prey), coupled with bad hatch years due to weather and nest destruction.  It doesn't take long for the population to drop.  If it keeps dropping at this rate we want have to worry about it.


----------



## GLS (Apr 6, 2018)

I've  heard  talk of disease infecting turkeys in one WMA; where I don't know.  Drastic measures are being considered.


----------



## fountain (Apr 6, 2018)

Being considered by who?  Not anyone in the wildlife resource division


----------



## trad bow (Apr 6, 2018)

BF Grant has a huge egg laying facility bordering it on the north end by hi way 441. The turkeys declined started when it opened. They say it is no way associated with the populations. Whatever happened to the deer on the ONF is happening to the turkeys. Not a good situation but I doubt if you can get anyone to stop hunting after harvesting one gobbler.


----------



## XIronheadX (Apr 6, 2018)

Turkeys gave me a disease over 30 yrs ago, and believe me, you don't want it.


----------



## chase870 (Apr 6, 2018)

XIronheadX said:


> Turkeys gave me a disease over 30 yrs ago, and believe me, you don't want it.



Been searching for a cure for it with no luck


----------



## kevincox (Apr 6, 2018)

Less sign and very few tracks where I've hunted. Could be habitat issue in my area. Too much clear cutting and really thick planted pines and very few hardwoods. Have not heard a gobble in 2 trips. In past years we would normally always hear atleast 1 or 2.


----------



## Luke0927 (Apr 6, 2018)

We back up to ONF around Monticello, or land was mostly cut so we have been mostly hunting ONF last two seasons.  We have worked a couple of birds, but it has been tough.


----------



## panfish (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm in the onf almost every weekend. I don't see them like I use to. But I don't see a lot of hunting ether.   I don't see it being over hunting doing it. I stop hunting turkey a long time ago.  But I'm still out there walking.  They just not there any more.


----------



## Danuwoa (Apr 7, 2018)

Funny that I find this thread here this morning.  I had a conversation with a guy this morning and he asked me if I had heard anything about deer corn that is being put out hurting the turkeys.  By that I mean something about whatever is being done to the corn being unhealthy for turkeys.  I don't know why it would hurt turkeys and not deer but I'm not an expert on such matters.  Have y'all heard anything about this.


----------



## PappyHoel (Apr 7, 2018)

South GA Dawg said:


> Funny that I find this thread here this morning.  I had a conversation with a guy this morning and he asked me if I had heard anything about deer corn that is being put out hurting the turkeys.  By that I mean something about whatever is being done to the corn being unhealthy for turkeys.  I don't know why it would hurt turkeys and not deer but I'm not an expert on such matters.  Have y'all heard anything about this.



Sounds like an anti baiter rumor .


----------



## Danuwoa (Apr 7, 2018)

PappyHoel said:


> Sounds like an anti baiter rumor .



Could be.  But the guy that asked me about doesn't do anything but small game hunt so I doubt he cares.


----------



## Mexican Squealer (Apr 7, 2018)

Aflatoxin


----------



## Gut_Pile (Apr 7, 2018)

Kansas, Texas, and Florida allow bait to be present during turkey season and they have zero turkey issues 

Corn has nothing to do with it


----------



## deast1988 (Apr 7, 2018)

How many signed into CederCreek this year?

How much timber did they take off CederCreek, B.F. Grant, Redlands, Clybel?

The land management on certain tracks or lack there of, The allowable hunter access makes it easy pickings to easily over hunt, over educate, and decimate populations.

Lock the gates, make folks walk. Limit hunters, don’t just wipe chunks of timber out to pay the bills (Clybel/BF). Should start some state funded trapping programs by folks that actually know how to properly trap, They keep increasing hunting license prices.

I say all this because my sections of ONF are affected by the hunting situations on some of these WMAS. CC is prob over 500 signed in at this point in season. That much pressure on a sign in hunt. Leads to no telling out there on government land in Surrounding areas.


----------



## creekside (Apr 8, 2018)

some good points!


----------



## spurrs and racks (Apr 9, 2018)

*the birds are gone*

and over hunting, or corn, or even predation did not get these numbers down to the level that they are now.

Something killed these birds, and although raccoons and other critters certainly take there toil as well has habitat removal, I think it was something much larger than people have put there fingers on.

I raise turkeys, and I have had a fair amount just die in the last few years. I think it was disease or flu.

IMHO

s&r


----------



## cam88 (Apr 9, 2018)

I remember last year I got drawn for a quota hunt and when I got there they had been cutting timber right before the season started and during the first bit of the season. Don't know who's bright idea that was but needless to say I harvested 0.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Apr 9, 2018)

DEERFU said:


> nest predators taking a toll


When we started  Predator control on our leases the Turkey population was way DOWN, Now we have very few coyote Bobcats and Hogs and our Turkey population is getting better with of course food plots being managed for deer and turkey,s ...


----------



## Jody Hawk (Apr 12, 2018)

creekside said:


> The population is getting worse on the ONF!  We have covered some miles this week and can't hardly even find a track.



I'm right there with you. I've got spots that I could hear a gobble nearly any morning a few years ago, today it's like there's not a turkey within miles.


----------



## saltysenior (Apr 12, 2018)

spurrs and racks said:


> and over hunting, or corn, or even predation did not get these numbers down to the level that they are now.
> 
> Something killed these birds, and although raccoons and other critters certainly take there toil as well has habitat removal, I think it was something much larger than people have put there fingers on.
> 
> ...



the disease theory is a theory that holds water for the turkey population decline in ALL eastern states...other than raptors, reasons that are usually brought forward are not possible in all the states seeing this occurrence


----------



## Timberman (Apr 20, 2018)

> I think it was something much larger than people have put there fingers on.




This


----------



## Scotsman (Apr 29, 2018)

A dwindling population seems to be the case for turkeys in our area of northwest Georgia, too. Places where I routinely have seen birds in the past have no birds. Our property now has next to nothing. I did find a dead longbeard in late January this year. No visible wounds or injury. I found him at the edge of a field along a creek under a roost tree. Maybe he froze to death and fell off the limb?

I am not hunting our property for the rest of the season. There are still a few there, but few and far between and I cannot justify trying to take one out.


----------



## Thunder Head (Apr 30, 2018)

This happened in Stephens county 10-12 years ago. 
 Locations were you could see flocks of 20-30 the first week of the season. Have very small or non-existent populations.

It happened in just a couple of years too. The population hasn't really changed in the last few years. Its no where near what it used to be though.

I never hunted public land before this much less killed a bird. It came down to. I had to roam far and wide to locate birds I could actually hunt. Ive killed a public land bird 4 out of the last 5 years I think.


----------



## TenPtr (Apr 30, 2018)

This decline in population is way more than just a predator issue.  Turkeys and predators/varmints are natural cohabitants.  It is all part of nature's natural balance.  Sure, there are some negative impacts of heavy predation but it would never lead to the turkey population epidemic unfolding before us. 
    I can't speak for National Forest but I can speak for multiple private tracts from 60-2500 acres which are only hunted by me and my guests.  Turkey's once thrived on these properties and very conservative harvest practices are strictly enforced.   Over the past 6 years I have watched the turkey population steadily dwindle to the point as to which it stands this very day.  I'd say there has been a 75% decline in population over the past 6-7 years.   I rarely hear much less see HENS these days which obviously means I hardly ever hear or see gobblers on these properties like I did back before this unidentified epidemic struck.  
   There are obviously areas that have not experienced the wrath of epidemic "X" yet but I fear that its only a matter of time.  This is a matter too great to take into our own hands as hunters, so unfortunately its going to take our DNR and higher authorities to provide answers which they may or may not already know.....   Is it possible that the wild turkeys in GA are on the same path as the wild bobwhite quail??  I sure hope not but I don't see anything that can prevent it from happening as of right now.


----------



## sea trout (Apr 30, 2018)

DLH_Woodstock said:


> I don't know about ONF, but Raccoons Opossum Armadillo and coyotes all destroy nest and can kill hens and poults. With a growing coyote raccoon opossum and armadillo population Turkey and fawn populations will most likely fall.



This is what I think! We need more old fashion racoon hunters! They have been discouraged over many people givin them a hard time about there dogs and crossin property lines! Fact is MORE COON HUNTERS MEANS LESS SKUNKS, POSSUMS, COONS AND WHATERVER OTHER VARMIT THEY RUN INTO AT NIGHT!!! WHICH MEANS...MORE TURKEYS!!
Me and my bro in law hunted Clarksville Sunday mornin. I'm tagged out so he was the only shooter with only shotgun. We called together and got situated then a big coyote came lookin. I said kill it! Kill it now!
He said where is it?
I said kill it now!!!! 
Then it ran away, and my bro in law saw it then. But it was too late. It blended in with surroundings real well...and my bro in law was looking for a black circle.
Any dog that comes into a turkey call like that....well that may be the reason huntin turkeys is getting quieter. And that there are less turkeys.


----------



## sea trout (Apr 30, 2018)

TenPtr said:


> This decline in population is way more than just a predator issue.  Turkeys and predators/varmints are natural cohabitants.  It is all part of nature's natural balance.  Sure, there are some negative impacts of heavy predation but it would never lead to the turkey population epidemic unfolding before us.
> I can't speak for National Forest but I can speak for multiple private tracts from 60-2500 acres which are only hunted by me and my guests.  Turkey's once thrived on these properties and very conservative harvest practices are strictly enforced.   Over the past 6 years I have watched the turkey population steadily dwindle to the point as to which it stands this very day.  I'd say there has been a 75% decline in population over the past 6-7 years.   I rarely hear much less see HENS these days which obviously means I hardly ever hear or see gobblers on these properties like I did back before this unidentified epidemic struck.
> There are obviously areas that have not experienced the wrath of epidemic "X" yet but I fear that its only a matter of time.  This is a matter too great to take into our own hands as hunters, so unfortunately its going to take our DNR and higher authorities to provide answers which they may or may not already know.....   Is it possible that the wild turkeys in GA are on the same path as the wild bobwhite quail??  I sure hope not but I don't see anything that can prevent it from happening as of right now.



The private tracts you speak of...Is there fertilizing with chicken litter in the area???
That's something I hear talk of and would like to learn more about.


----------



## TenPtr (Apr 30, 2018)

sea trout said:


> The private tracts you speak of...Is there fertilizing with chicken litter in the area???
> That's something I hear talk of and would like to learn more about.




The 2000+/- acre mountain tract had several large applications of chicken litter put out in numerous large clearings.  It was dumped and spread thick in order to establish fescue for erosion control.  It was a massive undertaking to get the fescue established due to the slopes.  I believe its about 25 acres worth of fescue and it required way more chicken litter than anticipated until the grass filled out thick enough to stop erosion.  This took place about 10 years ago.  2012 and 2013 were the final years of our respectable turkey population.  In the blink of an eye we went from hearing 5+ birds on decent mornings and hearing/seeing smaller groups of hens all over the property and a couple of larger flocks which frequented neighboring pasture land..... to not hearing ANYTHING over the course of entire weekends etc...  The hens have all but disappeared along with the male population.  There are still some turkeys on the place but they are scattered few and far between.  Hearing a gobble at daybreak is a very very rare and unexpected occurrence these days.  Its truly sad and extremely concerning.  We have no hogs...  some but not many coyotes...  varmint sightings are not common though they are obviously out there.... NO JAKES have been killed under my watch since 2011.  14 gobblers have been taken since 2011.   I don't know what is at fault for this statewide epidemic but Im seeing similar patterns all over the place.


----------



## sea trout (May 1, 2018)

TenPtr said:


> The 2000+/- acre mountain tract had several large applications of chicken litter put out in numerous large clearings.  It was dumped and spread thick in order to establish fescue for erosion control.  It was a massive undertaking to get the fescue established due to the slopes.  I believe its about 25 acres worth of fescue and it required way more chicken litter than anticipated until the grass filled out thick enough to stop erosion.  This took place about 10 years ago.  2012 and 2013 were the final years of our respectable turkey population.  In the blink of an eye we went from hearing 5+ birds on decent mornings and hearing/seeing smaller groups of hens all over the property and a couple of larger flocks which frequented neighboring pasture land..... to not hearing ANYTHING over the course of entire weekends etc...  The hens have all but disappeared along with the male population.  There are still some turkeys on the place but they are scattered few and far between.  Hearing a gobble at daybreak is a very very rare and unexpected occurrence these days.  Its truly sad and extremely concerning.  We have no hogs...  some but not many coyotes...  varmint sightings are not common though they are obviously out there.... NO JAKES have been killed under my watch since 2011.  14 gobblers have been taken since 2011.   I don't know what is at fault for this statewide epidemic but Im seeing similar patterns all over the place.



Man that's tough. I hope the flocks there get good for Y'all again soon!
Reason I ask is because I grew up as a teenager hunting HUGE flocks of turkeys in Jackson, Hart, Madison and Franklin counties. These counties have had huge population decreases, (at least in my hunting spots for sure). These are also agricultural/cow farm hunting spots where heavy fertilization with chicken litter has been taking place.
Meanwhile the hunting club in Wilkes county, where we are timber management land, in amoungst tens of thousands of other timber management land, with no chicken litter anywhere nearby the turkey population is flourishing!!!! 
I also hunt north eastern Tennessee where the turkey population is flourishing on cow farms and there is no chicken litter.
Meanwhile all of these hunting spots all have the same amount of predators and hunting pressure.
So it just makes me curious and wanting to learn more.


----------



## JMB (May 1, 2018)

Last time I was down in the Oconee  Nf, there was t a tree big enough for a turkey to sit in. I’d be curious who has the concession to log and which government official is getting the kickback. Not sure if it’s all over the NF, but where we hunted, it looks like it’s owned by a timber company, not the citizens of this country.


----------



## QuackAttack101 (May 1, 2018)

JMB said:


> Last time I was down in the Oconee  Nf, there was t a tree big enough for a turkey to sit in. I’d be curious who has the concession to log and which government official is getting the kickback. Not sure if it’s all over the NF, but where we hunted, it looks like it’s owned by a timber company, not the citizens of this country.



Same thing on the public land I hunt.  They clear cut hundreds (if not thousands) or acres.  I just want to know what they're doing with that money.


----------



## Ihunt (May 1, 2018)

dark horse said:


> Folks,  it's the chicken crap.  Next.



Bingo. This is my thought as well. 

Google Black Head Disease. It wipes out turkeys.


----------



## saltysenior (May 1, 2018)

Ihunt said:


> Bingo. This is my thought as well.
> 
> Google Black Head Disease. It wipes out turkeys.



the problem w/ turkey population exist in many states....places where they don't cut timber and they don't spread chicken manure.... 
  one thing that seems to be common is that large flocks seem to disappear in a year or two....disease is the only thing that can do that


----------



## sea trout (May 1, 2018)

Ihunt said:


> Bingo. This is my thought as well.
> 
> Google Black Head Disease. It wipes out turkeys.



Blackhead disease causes liver lacerations in turkey's and is 100 percent mortal.
It is Heterakis Gallinarum, a fecal worm common coming from chickens.
The cure for this disease in the poulty industry was made illegal in the 1990's.
It's not mortal to chicken industry so there's not much work being done on another cure/vaccine. There's a little. But not much. If it killed the chickens of course there'd be more work being done.
One can walk through a chicken house and check it out....then drive to a turkey house and check that out with the same boots....and the disease can spread right there by that fecal worm, or their eggs.


----------



## Ridge Rooster (May 2, 2018)

I am not sure about the chicken manure issue but here in North Central Kentucky the population has also been on a steady decline for the last 6-10 years. I grew up in Georgia and hunted in the hey day of an expanding turkey population and when I moved to Kentucky about 25 years ago it was the same, the population was booming. Now it is rare for me to hear a gobbler in the morning, use to be I could hear one at anytime during season. They don't spread chicken manure here but there deffinetly is an issue! Hope someone figures it out soon!!

Ridge Rooster


----------



## creekside (May 4, 2018)

I sent my survey card back last week. In the commit section, I wrote, it was no longer fun to even go hunting...  I have never quit early in a season, but it has gotten to that....


----------



## DRBugman85 (May 5, 2018)

creekside said:


> I sent my survey card back last week. In the commit section, I wrote, it was no longer fun to even go hunting...  I have never quit early in a season, but it has gotten to that....


Never quit the day you don't go the birds will light up the woods.


----------



## BASS1FUN (May 9, 2018)

Don’t quit the bird I killed last year was on the last day and that was the best day he gobbled, I also killed 2 on ONF this season so they are there


----------



## General Sherman (May 9, 2018)

You really want to know what has killed all these turkeys?  It's plain and simple. Over-popularization of the sport, extremely high success rates due to too much technology, and a few years of bad hatches. It's not coyotes, chicken poop, hawks, burns, or timber cutting. 

Move the season back, lower the limit, and make blinds, decoys, and fanning illegal and after a few good spring hatches, we will be right back where we were in the nineties.


----------



## sea trout (May 9, 2018)

General Sherman said:


> You really want to know what has killed all these turkeys?  It's plain and simple. Over-popularization of the sport, extremely high success rates due to too much technology, and a few years of bad hatches. It's not coyotes, chicken poop, hawks, burns, or timber cutting.
> 
> Move the season back, lower the limit, and make blinds, decoys, and fanning illegal and after a few good spring hatches, we will be right back where we were in the nineties.



No thanks, the 90's were great but they are ova!
I 100 percent agree with you on "Over-popularization of the sport" That is a reason gobbler hunting is more difficult in many area's. Harder to find tracts of land to hunt with just you and a buddy. More birds are being called to and seeing decoys.
But the reasons you list.....tell us what they have to do with a decreasing hen population and poult survival???


----------



## Dinosaur (May 9, 2018)

sea trout said:


> No thanks, the 90's were great but they are ova!
> I 100 percent agree with you on "Over-popularization of the sport" That is a reason gobbler hunting is more difficult in many area's. Harder to find tracts of land to hunt with just you and a buddy. More birds are being called to and seeing decoys.
> But the reasons you list.....tell us what they have to do with a decreasing hen population and poult survival???


 
I believe the bad hatches he mentions answers your  question.


----------



## sea trout (May 10, 2018)

Dinosaur said:


> I believe the bad hatches he mentions answers your  question.



Yes I agree with that.
Still I would like to learn more of why the bad hatches happen.
I just don't see how hunting tactics and current legal gobbler limits affect bad hatches.


----------



## Thunder Head (May 10, 2018)

When "it" happened I was at a loss as to what happened to all the turkeys in my area.

 I now believe that a disease killed of a large portion of the population. Since then we have had less than spectacular hatches ever  year. Therefore the population has not been able to increase due to low recruitment.


----------



## Dinosaur (May 10, 2018)

sea trout said:


> Yes I agree with that.
> Still I would like to learn more of why the bad hatches happen.
> I just don't see how hunting tactics and current legal gobbler limits affect bad hatches.



Here is my take on it. It's really simple addition and subtraction, yet so many try to make it rocket science. Hen and gobbler numbers are down. Making reproduction down. Add more and more hunters every year, without adjusting the limit, is plain crazy. An area that used to have three or four sexually mature gobblers, may now only have one. What happens to the few hens on that place when he is killed in the youth weekend? They don't get bred. If our population is down, and hens don't have a gobbler, you know the rest.That's how areas are being wiped out right now. I honestly believe this sums up most of our turkey issues. JMO though.


----------



## mtnDoc (May 10, 2018)

I live and hunt WNC. Will only shoot 1 tom on any given piece of private land, no matter how many are present. Also, only use 1 of my 2 tags on private. If i use the 2nd, it will always be on a public land bird. Obviously that is my personal decision, but the best decision I feel i can make in order to insure my bird populations for the next year.


----------



## HD28 (May 10, 2018)

Dinosaur said:


> Here is my take on it. It's really simple addition and subtraction, yet so many try to make it rocket science. Hen and gobbler numbers are down. Making reproduction down. Add more and more hunters every year, without adjusting the limit, is plain crazy. An area that used to have three or four sexually mature gobblers, may now only have one. What happens to the few hens on that place when he is killed in the youth weekend? They don't get bred. If our population is down, and hens don't have a gobbler, you know the rest.That's how areas are being wiped out right now. I honestly believe this sums up most of our turkey issues. JMO though.



I agree with this myself.


----------



## delacroix (May 10, 2018)

Well, they just burned a nesting area this week. That might have something to do with it. They say the loss of nest is small enough they deem it insignificant. Which is kinda convenient that they get to decide their destruction of nests is OK. 

Then you have hens moving areas to start over. That puts more hens in a smaller area, making predation of nests and poults greater due to the ease with which predators can find them.

Oh and NWTF sending more hunters there because they wanted to show off having cleared a logging deck and calling it habitat improvement ain't helpin' neither!


----------



## sea trout (May 10, 2018)

Dinosaur said:


> Here is my take on it. It's really simple addition and subtraction, yet so many try to make it rocket science. Hen and gobbler numbers are down. Making reproduction down. Add more and more hunters every year, without adjusting the limit, is plain crazy. An area that used to have three or four sexually mature gobblers, may now only have one. What happens to the few hens on that place when he is killed in the youth weekend? They don't get bred. If our population is down, and hens don't have a gobbler, you know the rest.That's how areas are being wiped out right now. I honestly believe this sums up most of our turkey issues. JMO though.



Good opinion. I can't argue with that. And it is simple.
I still believe somthing else is helping, maybe blackheads desease ......I don't know, I don't know.....It's just fishy to me how, in my stompin area's, agriculture field birds are the ones goin away. And the forest/timber management birds are thriving! Like I said that's just what I've witnessed over the past 25 years in my stompin grounds.
I havn't been to the ONF in around 15 years. I remember it was full of birds in the 90's however.


----------



## Bo D (May 11, 2018)

Decline in Stewart and Webster County where I been hunting since 04’ I’ve been the only one really hunting this place all that time so it’s not hunting pressure. 
Even surrounding areas l am not seeing birds like I did just 5 yrs ago. 
No doubt something is happening.


----------



## The mtn man (May 12, 2018)

Populations have declined in areas I have always hunted, none of the reasons above apply, there is not much hunting pressure. No burning nests, no chicken manure. The hens are gone. And I'm not just talking about a few thousand acres, I'm talking about areas the size of a few counties. I always tried to hunt where no one else would go, lots of my old favorite productive places would be a 2-3 hour walk up to the AT to get to my morning listening spots where if a turkey gobbled a mile away I could here it, nothing but silence now, no hen sign either.


----------



## saltysenior (May 15, 2018)

The mtn man said:


> Populations have declined in areas I have always hunted, none of the reasons above apply, there is not much hunting pressure. No burning nests, no chicken manure. The hens are gone. And I'm not just talking about a few thousand acres, I'm talking about areas the size of a few counties. I always tried to hunt where no one else would go, lots of my old favorite productive places would be a 2-3 hour walk up to the AT to get to my morning listening spots where if a turkey gobbled a mile away I could here it, nothing but silence now, no hen sign either.



populations have declined in just about all areas east of the Miss.River....and most reasons given do not take place everywhere where this is happening.....hard to figure why agencies involved with turkey management have not got together and focused on a reason for this.


----------



## Dinosaur (May 16, 2018)

saltysenior said:


> populations have declined in just about all areas east of the Miss.River....and most reasons given do not take place everywhere where this is happening.....hard to figure why agencies involved with turkey management have not got together and focused on a reason for this.



 The answer to your question is $. Salaries can be affected when they start probing around, shortening seasons, lowering bag limits etc. Sad but its true. Everything revolves around the dollar......


----------

