# Christianity and Islam comparison



## applejuice (Jun 6, 2011)

I have always wondered why Islam was so similar to Christianity. 
In reality they are the same thing , with a few rules changed, right?


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## stringmusic (Jun 6, 2011)

"Good deads" has nothing to do with salvation in Christianity. I also fail to see how Christianity is respected by the followers of Islam.

Islam and Christianity are worlds apart, different God, Heaven, He11,salvation, revelation, thoughts on Jesus, women,men etc.


Where did you get the chart?


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## atlashunter (Jun 6, 2011)

I love how Christians claim to worship the same God as the Jews but not the same God as the Muslims...


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## centerpin fan (Jun 6, 2011)

applejuice said:


> In reality they are the same thing , with a few rules changed, right?



Wrong.

The identity of Jesus is key.  Everything else is a footnote.  Islam and Christianity are worlds apart on who Jesus is.


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## HawgJawl (Jun 6, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> "Good deads" has nothing to do with salvation in Christianity. I also fail to see how Christianity is respected by the followers of Islam.
> 
> Islam and Christianity are worlds apart, different God, Heaven, He11,salvation, revelation, thoughts on Jesus, women,men etc.
> 
> ...



I understand there is a substantially different view of God between Islam and Christianity, but how is it a different God?


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## stringmusic (Jun 6, 2011)

I'll give the above post less than a hour.


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## applejuice (Jun 6, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I'll give the above post less than a hour.



I looked through it and realized what you meant. 

The original photo I got from a christian website, the last one I didnt. It was just comedic


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## 1gr8bldr (Jun 6, 2011)

Their are so many different beliefs, claiming the name of Christian. Makes me wonder if Islam has the same thing going on. Judism, as I understand it based on a conversation from another religion forumn, does have different beliefs within itself


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## Six million dollar ham (Jun 7, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Their are so many different beliefs, claiming the name of Christian. Makes me wonder if Islam has the same thing going on.



Sort of, just not as many.  I think dissent is quite frowned upon in that religion.  Much like Christianity 400-500 years ago, I'd say.


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## dawg2 (Jun 7, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I love how Christians claim to worship the same God as the Jews but not the same God as the Muslims...



They worship the OT God of Abraham.


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## armalite (Jul 8, 2011)

their is only one way to heaven his name is JESUS


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## bullethead (Jul 8, 2011)

armalite said:


> their is only one way to heaven his name is JESUS



Incredible information.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 9, 2011)

applejuice said:


> View attachment 604695
> 
> I have always wondered why Islam was so similar to Christianity.
> In reality they are the same thing , with a few rules changed, right?



Is there a source for this table? How are Catholicism and Christianity combined? That just doesn't make sense. They are vastly different.

What is the source for this table?


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## TTom (Jul 9, 2011)

Ted Like it or not they are part of Christiandom, along with the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox and all the European and American Protestant denominations/ sects.

Yes there are Miles of distance in dogma between the various sects of Christianity, you still have that Christ thing in common.


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## jason4445 (Jul 10, 2011)

I have always said, you take away the names and between Islam and Christianity you have the same religion.  When doing my wood working present before Christmas I was in the basement with the radio going which is locked by age to one channel and on Sunday morning it is preaching - a Fundamentalist preachers comes on and then a Islamic preacher, I was listening and laughed to myself saying - they each had the exact same message - believe and you go to heaven.  There is no difference in fundamentalism, just different names.


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## dawg2 (Jul 10, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> I have always said, you take away the names and between Islam and Christianity you have the same religion.  When doing my wood working present before Christmas I was in the basement with the radio going which is locked by age to one channel and on Sunday morning it is preaching - a Fundamentalist preachers comes on and then a Islamic preacher, I was listening and laughed to myself saying - they each had the exact same message - believe and you go to heaven.  There is no difference in fundamentalism, just different names.



You do NOT have the same religion.  Being "similar" is not the same as being "the same."  A deer is similar to a cow, but they are not the same.


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## Bottle Hunter (Jul 10, 2011)

Someone needs to ask God if he really cares how his creations worship him and what he's called.

 Ya know know I can do that right here at this desk. Let me give it a try.

  Dear Lord, I ask you............................uh oh, incoming message [he knew what I was gonna ask before I ask, how bout that]

 Ok he's says


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## ted_BSR (Jul 10, 2011)

TTom said:


> Ted Like it or not they are part of Christiandom, along with the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox and all the European and American Protestant denominations/ sects.
> 
> Yes there are Miles of distance in dogma between the various sects of Christianity, you still have that Christ thing in common.



Tom - this is an interesting comment. I never really considered Catholics as Christians (perhaps a mistake on my part). They were always so beholden to the church in order to reach salvation that it never seemed congruent with my non-denominational Christian beliefs. I guess the term is very broad for some, and very specific for others.

Dogma doesn't matter. That is the beauty of true Christianity.


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## dawg2 (Jul 10, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Tom - this is an interesting comment. I never really considered Catholics as Christians (perhaps a mistake on my part). .



It is a mistake on your part. They are Christian.  What is your definition of "Christian" that would make you question their status?  They believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.



ted_BSR said:


> ... They were always so beholden to the church in order to reach salvation that it never seemed congruent with my non-denominational Christian beliefs...



Not sure what that means.  But Catholics believe many Christians (non-Catholic) go to Heaven, not just Catholics.

If you want to learn something, here is a link: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ecree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html


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## Lead Poison (Jul 10, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> I have always said, you take away the names and between Islam and Christianity you have the same religion.  When doing my wood working present before Christmas I was in the basement with the radio going which is locked by age to one channel and on Sunday morning it is preaching - a Fundamentalist preachers comes on and then a Islamic preacher, I was listening and laughed to myself saying - they each had the exact same message - believe and you go to heaven.  There is no difference in fundamentalism, just different names.



Absolutely, positively, without a doubt false!

This is a doctrine from Satan himself.

Christians and muslims are NOT the same thing...not even close! There is a huge difference between the God of the Bible and the god the koran teaches! And no I didn't mis-capitalize!


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## Lead Poison (Jul 10, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> It is a mistake on your part. They are Christian.  What is your definition of "Christian" that would make you question their status?  They believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good post and for the record, I'm a Baptist.


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## bullethead (Jul 10, 2011)

Lead Poison said:


> Absolutely, positively, without a doubt false!
> 
> This is a doctrine from Satan himself.
> 
> Christians and muslims are NOT the same thing...not even close! There is a huge difference between the God of the Bible and the god the koran teaches! And no I didn't miss capitalize!



Doctrine from Satan!!!!!!


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## bullethead (Jul 10, 2011)

I thought Catholics claimed to be the "First" Christians.


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## bushidobam (Jul 11, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I thought Catholics claimed to be the "First" Christians.



They were the first Christians, Historically speaking.  Or should I say, rather, they were the first Christians to organize, and promote themselves a bonafide orthodoxy under the Christian umbrella.  

It's an old religion.


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## jason4445 (Jul 12, 2011)

Well just ask the question to each how do you get into heaven.  The Christian will tell you believe in God and since they do that trinity thing Jesus and God are the same, go to church and tithe.  Ask that of the Islamic and hey say believe in God, go to chruch and give alms to the poor.  For  the most important reason for being in a religion- getting to heaven - they both believe the same.

It is an important Islamic belief that you can enjoy the same things in heaven as you did on earth.  Now ask a Christian what Paw Paw is doing now that he is in heaven and they say hunting deer, fishing, sitting on the porch with his favorite dog Hambone.

You can go on and on.  Of course to some if a verse has a semi colon or a comma makes all the difference in the world, but to the general public if you study the most basic beliefs and conclusions of the Christian and of the Islamic they are the same.


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## dawg2 (Jul 12, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> Well just ask the question to each how do you get into heaven.  The Christian will tell you believe in God and since they do that trinity thing Jesus and God are the same, go to church and tithe.  Ask that of the Islamic and hey say believe in God, go to chruch and give alms to the poor.  For  the most important reason for being in a religion- getting to heaven - they both believe the same.
> 
> It is an important Islamic belief that you can enjoy the same things in heaven as you did on earth.  Now ask a Christian what Paw Paw is doing now that he is in heaven and they say hunting deer, fishing, sitting on the porch with his favorite dog Hambone.
> 
> You can go on and on.  Of course to some if a verse has a semi colon or a comma makes all the difference in the world, but to the general public if you study the most basic beliefs and conclusions of the Christian and of the Islamic they are the same.



Oversimplified.    A cow and deer both eat vegeation.  They have cloven hooves, fur, tails, they both nurse their young.  They have the same cuts of meat when butchered...yet they are different.

Your paintbrush is a bit "broad."


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 12, 2011)

I think it may be, but I also think that the two are too close for any Christian to care to admit to.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> ... the most basic beliefs and conclusions of the Christian and of the Islamic they are the same.



Absolutely, positively not true.  I said it in post #4, and I'll say it again:  their views on Jesus' identity are totally different.


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## applejuice (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Absolutely, positively not true.  I said it in post #4, and I'll say it again:  their views on Jesus' identity are totally different.



Mohammed in a bear suit


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

applejuice said:


> Mohammed in a bear suit



Not quite.

The chart you originally posted confirms it.


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## JFS (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> their views on Jesus' identity are totally different.



If you are going to quibble, I think the Muslims have the edge on this one.  Divinely inspired prophet is less ridiculous than the trinity man-god mumbo jumbo.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

JFS said:


> If you are going to quibble, I think the Muslims have the edge on this one.  Divinely inspired prophet is less ridiculous than the trinity man-god mumbo jumbo.



It's not "quibbling".  Jesus' divinity is the key doctrine of Christianity.


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## bigreddwon (Jul 12, 2011)

*If the fact that Islam and Christianity are similar bothers you, dont read this*

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

The whole Jesus story was told century's before he was born and borrowed for Christianity. It was Krishna's story first. Most diehard Christians don't even_* know*_ about it, those that do _*HAVE*_ to say its a lie, or link it as a prophecy foretelling of Jesus.. Because taken at face value, it could shake a persons faith, if they had any doubts to begin with that is..





> Author Kersey Graves (1813-1883), a Quaker from Indiana, compared Yeshua's and Krishna's life. He found what he believed were 346 elements in common within Christiana and Hindu writings.
> 
> He did report some amazing coincidences:
> bullet	#6 & 45: Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
> ...



The similarity's between the religions in the OP is staggering. Never seen it on paper like that, very eye opening for me anyways.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> The similarity's between the religions in the OP is staggering.



Of course they're similar.  They're three Semitic religions.


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## JFS (Jul 12, 2011)

Of course they're similar.  They're three Semitic...

myths that borrow from each other, much like the Roman gods borrowed from Greek gods.


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## bigreddwon (Jul 12, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> I have always said, you take away the names and between Islam and Christianity you have the same religion.  When doing my wood working present before Christmas I was in the basement with the radio going which is locked by age to one channel and on Sunday morning it is preaching - a Fundamentalist preachers comes on and then a Islamic preacher, I was listening and laughed to myself saying - they each had the exact same message - believe and you go to heaven.  There is no difference in fundamentalism, just different names.



Except if you pick the wrong one to dedicate your entire life to, then you burn. Even if you led a morally just life.





dawg2 said:


> You do NOT have the same religion.  Being "similar" is not the same as being "the same."  A deer is similar to a cow, but they are not the same.



When they are _AS_ similar as they _ARE_, it _HAS_ to make one stop and think that theirs_ CAN NOT_ be _*ONE*_ true religion? Right? 



Bottle Hunter said:


> Someone needs to ask God if he really cares how his creations worship him and what he's called.
> 
> Ya know know I can do that right here at this desk. Let me give it a try.
> 
> ...







Lead Poison said:


> Absolutely, positively, without a doubt false!
> 
> This is a doctrine from Satan himself.
> 
> Christians and muslims are NOT the same thing...not even close! There is a huge difference between the God of the Bible and the god the koran teaches! And no I didn't mis-capitalize!



You are _*So*_ constantly on the side of whatever side of the argument is crazy, its terrifying you have a badge, terrifying. 
Christians are EXACTLY the same as Muslims in regard to the fact they will BOTH KILL YOU if you don't see it their way....AND feel really good about too.. History is full of it, both religions.



dawg2 said:


> Oversimplified.    A cow and deer both eat vegeation.  They have cloven hooves, fur, tails, they both nurse their young.  They have the same cuts of meat when butchered...yet they are different.
> 
> Your paintbrush is a bit "broad."



I think the brush isn't near as 'broad' as Christians would like.



TripleXBullies said:


> I think it may be, but I also think that the two are too close for any Christian to care to admit to.





centerpin fan said:


> Absolutely, positively not true.  I said it in post #4, and I'll say it again:  their views on Jesus' identity are totally different.



So? _*SO*_ much _*IS*_ the same its scary. You know it is, that's why y'all are scrambling so hard on this thread to distance yours from theirs..


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> ... that's why y'all are scrambling so hard on this thread to distance yours from theirs..



Christians don't need to scramble to distance themselves from Muslims.  The next time a group of Baptists hijacks a plane and flies it into a building, feel free to start a thread comparing it to 9/11.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> Christians are EXACTLY the same as Muslims in regard to the fact they will BOTH KILL YOU if you don't see it their way....



Good grief.   Is this really the best you can do?


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 12, 2011)

Have they not? I do believe their are some peaceful Muslims too.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I do believe their are some peaceful Muslims too.



There are plenty of them, thankfully.


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## bigreddwon (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Christians don't need to scramble to distance themselves from Muslims.  The next time a group of Baptists hijacks a plane and flies it into a building, feel free to start a thread comparing it to 9/11.


Weak..


Timothy James McVeigh.

Next.....


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> Weak..
> 
> 
> Timothy James McVeigh.
> ...



You mention Timothy McVeigh and call _me_ weak?  Oh, man ... where to start? 

First, in what respect was McVeigh a Christian?  I think he may have been baptized a Catholic, but so what?  And when did he ever indicate his bombing was done in the name of Christ?  Don't just type "Timothy James McVeigh" and slink away.  Demonstrate his Christianity and that he bombed in the name of Christ.

Second, you're actually comparing a lone nut like McVeigh to an international Muslim terrorist group that declared war on the US and attacked us here and abroad?


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## Bottle Hunter (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Christians don't need to scramble to distance themselves from Muslims.  The next time a group of Baptists hijacks a plane and flies it into a building, feel free to start a thread comparing it to 9/11.



 Christians will not hijack a plane....................they'll just line ya up at a ditch and shoot you in the back of the head.

 How many Muslims did the good Christians of Bosnia kill the other year, ok 15 years ago? 30,000 Was it not?

 or

 Put ya in a room and tell ya it's a shower. Throw in a little Zyklon B.

 How many was that 6,000,000?

 "Planes? We don't need no stinken planes........we're Christians" 


 I tell ya that 9/11 shore has some miles on it. Then again it fits so many situations so well.


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## bigreddwon (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> You mention Timothy McVeigh and call _me_ weak?  Oh, man ... where to start?
> 
> First, in what respect was McVeigh a Christian?  I think he may have been baptized a Catholic, but so what?  And when did he ever indicate his bombing was done in the name of Christ?  Don't just type "Timothy James McVeigh" and slink away.  Demonstrate his Christianity and that he bombed in the name of Christ.
> 
> Second, you're actually comparing a lone nut like McVeigh to an international Muslim terrorist group that declared war on the US and attacked us here and abroad?



The point was that killing Americans is not JUST a Muslim thing, He was Roman Catholic and it wasn't a 'lone nut' remember his buddy Nichols? They were furious about WACO. It involved guns and religion and ended in dead Americans was my point. 

Christian fringe and Muslim fringe are NO different.. They will BOTH kill you if your get in their sights!! On paper, the actual basis of each religion (core, not fringe) are VERY much the same with minor details separating them. Hard to swallow? Not my problem.


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## JFS (Jul 12, 2011)

The KKK was a pretty christian bunch in its day.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

Bottle Hunter said:


> Christians will not hijack a plane....................they'll just line ya up at a ditch and shoot you in the back of the head.
> 
> How many Muslims did the good Christians of Bosnia kill the other year, ok 15 years ago? 30,000 Was it not?
> 
> ...



In what respect were the Serbs and the Nazis Christian?  When the Nazis shoved Jews into the gas chambers, did they say "We do this in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"?

This is just ridiculous.  I can't believe you guys are hanging your hat on this one.  You guys are obviously very bitter and have a grudge against the church.  

What will you blame Christians for next?  The extinction of the dinosaurs, maybe?  How about the Cubs inability to win the pennant?  No, I have it:  male pattern baldness!  It's Christians fault I'm a member of the "Hair Club for Men".


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> He was Roman Catholic ...



As I said, he may have been baptized a Catholic, but he did not practice Christianity and referred to himself as an agnostic.




bigreddwon said:


> Hard to swallow?



No, it's just hard to believe somebody not named Farrakhan actually believes this.  (You aren't Louis Farrakhan, are you?)


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

JFS said:


> The KKK was a pretty christian bunch in its day.



It was?


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> In what respect were the Serbs and the Nazis Christian?  When the Nazis shoved Jews into the gas chambers, did they say "We do this in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"?
> 
> This is just ridiculous.  I can't believe you guys are hanging your hat on this one.  You guys are obviously very bitter and have a grudge against the church.
> 
> What will you blame Christians for next?  The extinction of the dinosaurs, maybe?  How about the Cubs inability to win the pennant?  No, I have it:  male pattern baldness!  It's Christians fault I'm a member of the "Hair Club for Men".



"Gott Mit Uns" 

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-701-s&va=gott+mit+uns


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

Here's a doozy


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> The point was that killing Americans is not JUST a Muslim thing,



No, plenty of Americans kill other Americans every year.  Just don't tell me they do it in the name of Christ.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> "Gott Mit Uns"
> 
> http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-701-s&va=gott+mit+uns



Well, that settles it.  There's nothing more official than an inscription on a belt buckle.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

Since you love links, here's one for you.  (It's not as reputable as "Rotten.com", but it was the best I could do on short notice):

_"Assuming Eric Rudolph committed these crimes, he cannot find one word in the teachings of Christ to justify them," Gary Bauer wrote in response to the Post article. "Nor will he find any theological leader of any branch of Christianity willing to defend his criminal conduct. No Christian neighborhoods burst into celebration at the news of the bombings.  Nor are Christian children being taught that if Rudolph had died in his attacks he would be a 'martyr' welcomed into heaven. The contrast with radical Islamic teachings couldn't be more stark."_

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-2-22.0.html


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

Since no neighborhoods burst into joy I guess they don't count.

    Army of God (AOG) (1982-present; United States; Christian radicals)
        Underground extremist anti-abortion group responsible for abortion clinic bombings and attacks on doctors who perform abortion. 
    Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) (1994-present; Sudan and Uganda; Christian offshoot of Uganda Democratic Christian Army)
        Attempts to undermine the government of Uganda and replace with a theocratic government based on their form of Christianity. Particularly notorious for its abduction and use of children.


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## JFS (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> It was?



My work internet filters a lot of this but even the part viewable on google from the kkk website says:

"Welcome to the Ku Klux Klan. Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America!"

A little more reading here:  http://tinyurl.com/67uhnou


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## bigreddwon (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Since no neighborhoods burst into joy I guess they don't count.
> 
> Army of God (AOG) (1982-present; United States; Christian radicals)
> Underground extremist anti-abortion group responsible for abortion clinic bombings and attacks on doctors who perform abortion.
> ...


Facts, logic and history...Never have been friends of religion.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Since you love links, here's one for you.  (It's not as reputable as "Rotten.com", but it was the best I could do on short notice):
> 
> _"Assuming Eric Rudolph committed these crimes, he cannot find one word in the teachings of Christ to justify them," Gary Bauer wrote in response to the Post article. "Nor will he find any theological leader of any branch of Christianity willing to defend his criminal conduct. No Christian neighborhoods burst into celebration at the news of the bombings.  Nor are Christian children being taught that if Rudolph had died in his attacks he would be a 'martyr' welcomed into heaven. The contrast with radical Islamic teachings couldn't be more stark."_
> 
> http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/juneweb-only/6-2-22.0.html



Good link but I cannot understand why a christian website would want to distance themselves so far from Rudolf????????


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## Ridge Walker (Jul 12, 2011)

Here's a question: Was the motivation behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks religious or political?

RW


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## ted_BSR (Jul 12, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> It is a mistake on your part. They are Christian.  What is your definition of "Christian" that would make you question their status?  They believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting, most Catholics I know would say they are catholic, not Christian. Don't they believe in the divinity of Mary? Don't they believe that they must receive the sacraments from the church in order to get to heaven? These are not Christian biblical principals. It seems to be all about the Vatican and not really about Christ.

The link you provided seems to support this.

I believe that anyone can be a Christian, and can be saved, regardless of where they began, so my definition of a Christian would be: One who believes in the deity of Christ, the trinity of Christ, God and the Holy Spirit, and accepts the death and resurrection of Christ to atone for our fallen state as sinners. I would add that a Christian believes that there is no other way to be saved than to accept the death and resurrection of Christ to atone for our fallen state as sinners. The church does not bestow anything that leads to salvation.


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## Bottle Hunter (Jul 12, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Interesting, most Catholics I know would say they are catholic, not Christian. Don't they believe in the divinity of Mary? Don't they believe that they must receive the sacraments from the church in order to get to heaven? These are not Christian biblical principals. It seems to be all about the Vatican and not really about Christ.
> 
> The link you provided seems to support this.
> 
> I believe that anyone can be a Christian, and can be saved, regardless of where they began, so my definition of a Christian would be: One who believes in the deity of Christ, the trinity of Christ, God and the Holy Spirit, and accepts the death and resurrection of Christ to atone for our fallen state as sinners. I would add that a Christian believes that there is no other way to be saved than to accept the death and resurrection of Christ to atone for our fallen state as sinners. The church does not bestow anything that leads to salvation.



 So how ya feel about the Jews?


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Army of God (AOG) (1982-present; United States; Christian radicals)
> 
> Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) (1994-present; Sudan and Uganda; Christian offshoot of Uganda Democratic Christian Army)



I go back to my previous question:  is this really the best you can do?  I give you al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad and you offer up the Army of God and the Lords Resistance Army.  (And you had to go to Uganda to find that last one).  How many people in our solar system (outside of Uganda, of course) could name either of those groups?


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

JFS said:


> My work internet filters a lot of this but even the part viewable on google from the kkk website says:
> 
> "Welcome to the Ku Klux Klan. Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America!"
> 
> A little more reading here:  http://tinyurl.com/67uhnou



I'm well aware that the Klan uses Christian terminology.  That does not make them Christian.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> Facts, logic and history...Never have been friends of religion.



I think you're just mad that an agnostic like McVeigh is responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Interesting, most Catholics I know would say they are catholic, not Christian.



Most Catholics I know see no difference between the two terms.  At most, I think they would say "Catholic" is one type of Christian.  That's a pretty liberal interpretation, though.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Good link but I cannot understand why a christian website would want to distance themselves so far from Rudolf????????



Be serious.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 12, 2011)

Ridge Walker said:


> Here's a question: Was the motivation behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks religious or political?



To the jihadist, there's very little difference between the two.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I go back to my previous question:  is this really the best you can do?  I give you al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad and you offer up the Army of God and the Lords Resistance Army.  (And you had to go to Uganda to find that last one).  How many people in our solar system (outside of Uganda, of course) could name either of those groups?



The USA is full of small organizations. We only hear about them when they bust them for tax evasion or buying illegal weapons. They do not make the nightly news as our media likes to give the muslim groups that air time.

Whether I name one or fifty christian terrorist groups it still says there are christians willing to kill in the name of Jesus. Are they the majority, No. Are they legitimate, yes. Please don't act like civilized christians do not plot to kill for Jesus.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 12, 2011)

Bottle Hunter said:


> So how ya feel about the Jews?



First of all I want to clarify that I am not judging anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

I believe the Jews follow the Old Testament and do not acknowledge the deity of Christ.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> The USA is full of small organizations. We only hear about them when they bust them for tax evasion or buying illegal weapons. They do not make the nightly news as our media likes to give the muslim groups that air time.
> 
> Whether I name one or fifty christian terrorist groups it still says there are christians willing to kill in the name of Jesus. Are they the majority, No. Are they legitimate, yes. Please don't act like civilized christians do not plot to kill for Jesus.



Do you really believe this? I would say those that plot to kill for Jesus are false prophets.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

I believe those members of those groups are fully convinced that what they are doing is for and condoned by Jesus and God.


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## ted_BSR (Jul 12, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I believe those members of those groups are fully convinced that what they are doing is for and condoned by Jesus and God.



Just cause I stick a feather in my hat don't make me a chicken.


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## bullethead (Jul 12, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Just cause I stick a feather in my hat don't make me a chicken.



But if you worship Christ you are a christian?


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## jason4445 (Jul 13, 2011)

God created man, but it is man who creates the religions that worship God and in that aspect theme wise most all religions are similar. In one form or the other every religion that has ever been and all today have the phrase - to do unto others.

All religions are created to do three things - to answer the unanswerable questions like who is God, where does he/she/it live, what happens when we die, why, why, why.etc.

The second is to help us make it through the day to day hassles of life, why does this happen, why did I act this bad way, why did I lose the job, why did this child have to die young, etc.

And finally and most importantly to make us feel better about ourselves.  No matter what a miserable ornery creature we are God loves us, no matter what sin I have done God forgives me, and best of all that only those that believe exactly like I do will go to heaven. It makes me feel special and all warm and fuzzy inside that I belong to a select group of individuals that when the time comes will go to be with God while everyone else goes to He!!. Being a member of a select group makes me better than anyone outside this exact belief system. That really is and unfortunately the most important part of human spiritual needs - that the way I believe is the only true way.  Millions in the course of human's time on earth have died in wars and conflict trying to prove "they are right."


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## MudDucker (Jul 13, 2011)

applejuice said:


> I have always wondered why Islam was so similar to Christianity.
> In reality they are the same thing , with a few rules changed, right?



Islam is 180 degrees from Christianity and the chart you posted is so inaccurate as to be absolutely laughable.  Where did you get this chart ... the Islamic Fooled You website?


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## MudDucker (Jul 13, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> Facts, logic and history...Never have been friends of religion.




How would you know?  It seems you have never searched for facts, used logic or studied history.  You like to google up little "factoids" and post them as "gotchas".  In truth, the only one gotten is you.

Here is a little for you to play with:

Fact:  It is undisputed that Jesus existed, that he ministered and that he was crucified.  For some reason his resurrection is disputed even though it was witnessed by over 100 people.   100 witnesses is enough to prove most anything in a court of law.

Logic would dictate that you are not in control of your coming and going from this planet, so there must be something that is a power higher than you.  Logic would also require the conclusion that when faced with the fact that no organism improves with mutation, that humans are a the product of something other than mutation from the primorial ooze.  Logic would also require the conclusion that since no "intermediate" steps of evolution still exist that something outside of the organism started and stopped its change.

History says that except for a very dark period known as the medieval times, the Christian religion is one of peace.  History says the Islam has always been a religion of violence.  It was "created" by a man who was a thief and a robber and who commanded his flock to lie, steal and cheat to convert the world.

The truth is that man has an evil streak and quite often does things in the name of a religion that actually are the anesthetist of that religion.  Such is not true of Islam as such evil acts are sanctioned in the name of the ends justify the means.


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## TripleXBullies (Jul 13, 2011)

I've seen it in this forum before. We're a nation founded on Christ and whatnot... A nation founded on it... How many bombs have we dropped overseas? They flew a couple of planes and killed a bunch of people. We've sent loads of armed forces. I'm not saying I disagree with it, but say it's political if you want. If the nation is founded on Christ  and "our god" then political reasons will be Christ reasons. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have fought what we call terrorism.



centerpin fan said:


> No, plenty of Americans kill other Americans every year.  Just don't tell me they do it in the name of Christ.


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## Bottle Hunter (Jul 13, 2011)

MudDucker said:


> History says that except for a very dark period known as the medieval times, the Christian religion is one of peace.  History says the Islam has always been a religion of violence.  It was "created" by a man who was a thief and a robber and who commanded his flock to lie, steal and cheat to convert the world.



 Must be the religon of lawyers.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 13, 2011)

bullethead said:


> They do not make the nightly news as our media likes to give the muslim groups that air time.



The media goes out of its way to ignore muslim terror acts.  When the Ft. Hood shooting happened, Obama and his media servants couldn't wait to say that we "shouldn't jump to conclusions".  Of course not.  Just because a Muslim man shoots a bunch of US soldiers while screaming "Allahu akbar", that's no reason to get excited.  Here's Eric Holder refusing to admit the obvious:







bullethead said:


> Whether I name one or fifty christian terrorist groups ...



I would very much like to see you name fifty christian terrorist groups.  I'd be shocked if the "Army of God" has fifty members.




bullethead said:


> Are they the majority, No.



On that, we agree.  They are the fringes of the fringes.




bullethead said:


> Please don't act like civilized christians do not plot to kill for Jesus.



You make it sound like it's the US Conference of Catholic Bishops discussing it at their annual meeting.  They're not "civilized Christians".  They're dangerously misguided and delusional people whose acts are completely and overwhelmingly condemned by the church.


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## vowell462 (Jul 13, 2011)

MudDucker said:


> How would you know?  It seems you have never searched for facts, used logic or studied history.  You like to google up little "factoids" and post them as "gotchas".  In truth, the only one gotten is you.
> 
> Here is a little for you to play with:
> 
> ...



The existance of Jesus is not undisputed. There are many arguments from both sides. One of the main problems with the whole idea is the gap in time when people started telling the story. Your " fact" is incorrect.
Logic doesnt tell me that just because we have no control on our coming and going on the planet that there must be a higher power. It tells me we dont have the answer. Just because we dont have answers doesnt mean automatically that God did it. Thats an answer to make yourself feel better about the situation of a question that you cant answer.
And, there is alot more to christian violence than just the medieval times. There is alot going on across the world in recent times.
Before we knock someone for thier knowledge of history, maybe you should have your "facts" straight.


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## stringmusic (Jul 13, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> The existance of Jesus is not undisputed. There are many arguments from both sides. One of the main problems with the whole idea is the *gap in time when people started telling the story*. Your " fact" is incorrect.



Everytime we have a new archaeological finding, the time period between first writings we do have and Jesus death and resurrection becomes smaller and smaller. The only reason I believe there is a small gap now is we haven't found documents in between.


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## jason4445 (Jul 13, 2011)

Both Judaism and Islam totally believe Jesus walked the earth and was a man who preached a good message. In fact, Jesus is mentioned quite favorably in the Koran around 27 different times. What they do not believe is that Jesus was a God or God/Man.

The mail reasons are Jesus is never once called "A God" in the Bible nor does he once ever say he was a God.  Jesus never once claimed that any miracle he performed was done by his power - "all I do comes through me from the Father."

They believe you are either a God or a man never both.

They believe that only you are responsible for your sins and only you can suffer or be forgiven for you sins - someone else cannot take yous sins away and suffer for you.

The God/Man thing cannot be and is proven by the crucifixion/resurrection. If Jesus was a God they believe a God cannot be killed. If Jesus died on the cross then it proves he was only a man.  And the whole crucifixion thing is also repugnant to them.  Since Jesus died on the cross, which means he was a man, and he died only for our sins then his death was human sacrifice which is despised by both Judaism and Islam.

The New testament is wrong where in says in Matthew that Jesus is descended from King David through Joseph.  Since Joseph was not the father, God was, his genes can only come from Mary.

Jews and Islamic do not believe in any second coming - they feel God is smart enough to do things right the first time, he does not need a second change to correct his errors from the first time around.

Both religions reject the God as man once again for both believe as is stated iin their religious books that God cannot and will not take any form. God can speak through burning bushes yet the bush does not become God during that time.


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## bullethead (Jul 13, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Everytime we have a new archaeological finding, the time period between first writings we do have and Jesus death and resurrection becomes smaller and smaller. The only reason I believe there is a small gap now is we haven't found documents in between.



New Archaeological finding such as.......


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## ted_BSR (Jul 13, 2011)

bullethead said:


> But if you worship Christ you are a christian?



That IS the reason for the chicken analogy. Only God can judge how you are doing.


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## bullethead (Jul 13, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> That IS the reason for the chicken analogy. Only God can judge how you are doing.



But the victims pay the price of the deeds done in God's name.


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## dawg2 (Jul 13, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> ....Jews and Islamic do not believe in any second coming - they feel God is smart enough to do things right the first time, he does not need a second change to correct his errors from the first time around..



WRONG.  

Muslims believe Jesus will return (a 2nd time) with Mohammed.  His (2nd return) will be to defeat  Masih ad-Dajjal also known by Christians as the Antichrist.  Check your facts.


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## dawg2 (Jul 13, 2011)

bullethead said:


> But the victims pay the price of the deeds done in God's name.



Victims pay the price of deeds done by any criminal.


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## bullethead (Jul 13, 2011)

dawg2 said:


> Victims pay the price of deeds done by any criminal.



I can't argue against that. 

In terms of deeds done because of religious beliefs, the criminals/terrorists/troops do it in the name of whoever they are worshiping FULL WELL believing that they are right for doing it and have their gods full blessing. They believe they can find passages in their bible to not only instruct them but justify their actions. Those lines of thought go for most believers in any religion for just about every action the individual or group takes in good, bad or otherwise. It is probably the reason why there are thousands of denominations and sub-denominations just within Christianity alone.


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## jason4445 (Jul 14, 2011)

Since their Messiah had not come there are not many Islamics that believe in a second coming.  Like I said it is their doctrine that God got things right the first time. I am familiar with the Jesus/Mohamed thing and that is not a generalized belief of Islam, but a sort of mystical/existentialistic/eschatology false Messiah/false prophet/false teacher believing type of off shoot group.  You find the same second coming thing in Judaism and a more mystical second coming in Christianity.

Saying that is a belief of Islam is like saying the Rapture is a belief of all Christianity


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## dawg2 (Jul 14, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> ...Saying that is a belief of Islam is like saying the Rapture is a belief of all Christianity


And you saying: 


jason4445 said:


> ... Islamic do not believe in any second coming...



Is about as far off as it gets.


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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2011)

I have heard it mentioned numerous times(in my barber shop) that God is going to punish Casey Anthony. God will see to it that she "gets what she deserves" and that they hope someone drowns her. If given the chance they would drown her or see to it that she was put to death, in essence, doing God's work for him. I can say with 100% certainty that these words were said by church going devout Christians, not some radical extremist offshoot terrorist group. Be honest, has anyone heard similar comments...maybe even muttered them yourself?


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## centerpin fan (Jul 14, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Be honest, has anyone heard similar comments...maybe even muttered them yourself?



Nope.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 14, 2011)

bullethead said:


> If given the chance they would drown her or see to it that she was put to death, in essence, doing God's work for him. I can say with 100% certainty that these words were said by church going devout Christians,



Anybody who would even think such a thing is no better than Casey Anthony, whether they warm a pew on Sunday or not.

Anybody who would even think such a thing should take Paul's advice and "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and leave Casey Anthony to God.


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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Nope.



Just for conversation, mention the Casey Anthony case while in mixed company(like: That is unreal how the case turned out) and see where the conversation goes. I have yet not to hear someone wish the worst for her.


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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> Anybody who would even think such a thing is no better than Casey Anthony, whether they warm a pew on Sunday or not.
> 
> Anybody who would even think such a thing should take Paul's advice and "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and leave Casey Anthony to God.



I agree with the first part.

The second part is wise advice unless Casey is a loyal and honest believer in Christ. She might be scolded, but she can still make it through the gates if she is a true believer.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 14, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Just for conversation, mention the Casey Anthony case while in mixed company(like: That is unreal how the case turned out) and see where the conversation goes. I have yet not to hear someone wish the worst for her.



I have talked about it with coworkers.  The consensus opinion is that she got away with murder and is the female OJ.  I haven't heard anybody say they would personally like to kill her or see somebody else kill her.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 14, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I agree with the first part.
> 
> ... unless Casey is a loyal and honest believer in Christ. She might be scolded, but she can still make it through the gates if she is a true believer.



I see no evidence she's a believer and, if she is, she's not gonna escape eternal judgement on a technicality:


_But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. _ - Rev 21:8


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## bullethead (Jul 14, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I see no evidence she's a believer and, if she is, she's not gonna escape eternal judgement on a technicality:
> 
> 
> _But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. _ - Rev 21:8



Nobody has a chance!


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## HawgJawl (Jul 14, 2011)

centerpin fan said:


> I see no evidence she's a believer and, if she is, she's not gonna escape eternal judgement on a technicality:
> 
> 
> _But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. _ - Rev 21:8



Were the Israelites not murderers?


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## vowell462 (Jul 15, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Everytime we have a new archaeological finding, the time period between first writings we do have and Jesus death and resurrection becomes smaller and smaller. The only reason I believe there is a small gap now is we haven't found documents in between.



such as?


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## jason4445 (Jul 15, 2011)

Really there have not been any new New Testament writing found and probably won't be any.  When the Bible was first put together at the Counsel of Nicaea in 312 AD around 144 Gospels where considered to make up the New testament.  Of these 4 were used and the rest burned.  Of the one selected to be burned about 30 were taken away by some priests and they have become the Gnostic Gospels.  Some of the Gnostics were written by people who actually knew Jesus like Mary and Mary Magdalene.  If you wish to read Gospels that were written by people who actually knew Jesus just look up those.

Many were rejected because they told stories that were true but some of the stories contradicted things the first Christians were wanting to tell about Jesus such as the purity of Jesus.  For instance, the Gospel of Phillip followed John practically word for word but mentioned that Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene and insinuated that they were married.  One thing that would really mess up Christian wise purity is adult physical relations even married ones. That was why we don't have a Gospel of Phillip in the New Testament.  There is also the Infantile Gospel that tells of Jesus as a child - the 30 years our Bible conveniently left out.


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## dawg2 (Jul 15, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> ....  One thing that would really mess up Christian wise purity is adult physical relations even married ones. ....



Actually, it wouldn't.


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## centerpin fan (Jul 16, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> When the Bible was first put together at the Counsel of Nicaea in 312 AD around 144 Gospels where considered to make up the New testament.



There's not one bit of truth in that statement.  You don't even have the date of the council right.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 16, 2011)

bigreddwon said:


> http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm
> 
> The whole Jesus story was told century's before he was born and borrowed for Christianity. It was Krishna's story first. Most diehard Christians don't even_* know*_ about it, those that do _*HAVE*_ to say its a lie, or link it as a prophecy foretelling of Jesus.. Because taken at face value, it could shake a persons faiAuthor Kersey Graves (1813-1883), a Quaker from Indiana, compared Yeshua's and Krishna's life. He found what he believed were 346 elements in common within Christiana and Hindu writings.
> 
> ...





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kersey_Graves


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## jason4445 (Jul 17, 2011)

The date is right technically n that many Bishops met there at that date to get thing sorted and then they all met again there in 325 AD. 

Not a bit of truth - sure is docmneted and written about that is what happened, but as anything religious truth is in the eye of the beholder.

The one thing Christianity jumped on like fleas on a dog was the sinning caused by sault physical relations. In fact it is one of the few disappointments of the Christian religion tome - to take such a wonderful and beautiful gift from God and to turn it nto some nasty filthy thing. 

Ir is funny how Christian can fall from grace as liars, addicts, murders, and everything else and Ho-Hu they are just sinners like we all are - but like something happened with adult physical relations and suddenly they become the worse type of sinners in the world.  And another funny thing is most all of these judgements are most severe on women. You never hear of taking a man to the city gates and stoning him because he is an adultery, you never see religious groups pinning a scarlet "A" on a man. 

In my mother's letters as a young woman she related how sorry she is for a girls family.  I come to find out that in the early 40's in this very Christian town a single girl the daughter of big church goers became pregnant and the shame and disgraced that was projected to the family by other Christians they had to move out of town.  If it had been a son who had gotten someone preggy aboutthe only thing said was a snort and boys will be boys.


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## MudDucker (Jul 18, 2011)

Bottle Hunter said:


> Must be the religon of lawyers.



Nah, just idjits who hunt bottles.


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## MudDucker (Jul 18, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> The existance of Jesus is not undisputed. There are many arguments from both sides. One of the main problems with the whole idea is the gap in time when people started telling the story. Your " fact" is incorrect.
> Logic doesnt tell me that just because we have no control on our coming and going on the planet that there must be a higher power. It tells me we dont have the answer. Just because we dont have answers doesnt mean automatically that God did it. Thats an answer to make yourself feel better about the situation of a question that you cant answer.
> And, there is alot more to christian violence than just the medieval times. There is alot going on across the world in recent times.
> Before we knock someone for thier knowledge of history, maybe you should have your "facts" straight.



Really .. there is NO reputable historian who disputes that Jesus existed.  The entire debate has been and will be regarding his divinity.

My facts are straight, yours are not facts, just spew. 

BTW, spell checker is your friend.


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## fish hawk (Jul 18, 2011)

Sad,Sad,Sad!!!I still cant believe this topic of discussion  is allowed on GON?Dont be surprised when.......


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## centerpin fan (Jul 18, 2011)

jason4445 said:


> The date is right technically n that many Bishops met there at that date to get thing sorted and then they all met again there in 325 AD.



No, you're confusing Constantine's conversion with Nicea.  Constantine converted to Christianity in 312.  The Council of Nicea met only once, and it was in 325.




jason4445 said:


> Not a bit of truth - sure is docmneted and written about that is what happened, but as anything religious truth is in the eye of the beholder.



The Council of Nicea was about Arianism.  The canon of scripture was not an item of discussion.  Any reputable source will confirm that.  Even Wikipedia has a good summary of it.  Dan Brown and other conspiracy theorists are the only ones pushing an alternative view.


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## bullethead (Jul 18, 2011)

fish hawk said:


> Sad,Sad,Sad!!!I still cant believe this topic of discussion  is allowed on GON?Dont be surprised when.......



Why, because someone does not believe like you do? It is in the appropriate place and the Mods and people involved have been nothing but excellent. The conversation has been informational on each side. No need to read if you don't like it.


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