# Dog Food



## rnelson5

What do yall use and why? Right now I uave him on Purina Pro Plan but I uave been told by a couple guys that there are better choices that don't have fillers in them....


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## bkl021475

Victor 24/20 red bag. If it's not available locally to you just ask your local feed store to order it for you.


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## BrownDog20886

"Fillers" are just the carbohydrate.  They may be corn, wheat, peas, sweet potato or any number of other things.  Good foods are largely meat based while cheap foods like Ol Roy and Riverrun are largely grain based.  You obviously want a mostly meat-based food.  However, dog food is nothing more than a biscuit for lack of a better term (unless you're feeding a wet food).  If anyone tells you they can make a palatable biscuit without some carb source, they are lying.  The good news is that dogs are really omnivours (they eat the guts of a kill first, which are full of all sorts of things other than meat) and they actually need those carbs as long as they are high quality and in the correct ratio.  Some dogs can't tolerate certain carb sources, but the vast majority do great with a plain corn carb source.

I advise people to find a premium food they can buy anywhere in the country (Iams, Eukanuba, Purina, Royal Canine, Science Diet).  The idea of getting to BFE, Arkansas, Louisiana or South Dakota and not being able to easily find my regular food is not cool.  I used to use Science Diet as a maintenance diet, but I don't like how dogs handle it when they are working hard and you're pushing the calories to them.  I've switched to Purina Pro Plan and really like how my pup does on it.  I train with some hunt testers that have some very complex feeding regimes, but I can't see a difference between the actually condition of my dog versus theirs, so those fillers aren't evil.  Just feed your dog what you're feeding until you see a problem.  If his hair coat starts looking dull or he gets gassy or gets really loose stool or starts losing condition despite eating a ton, try something else after talking to your vet.  Other dog owners will have you chasing your tail regarding voodoo based food regimes that such-and-such pro trainer swears by.  The dude at the feed store will have you cracking eggs over some el cheapo junk food because he makes the biggest margin on those cheap foods.

Nate


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## Scrapy

BrownDog20886 said:


> "Fillers"   Some dogs can't tolerate certain carb sources, but the vast majority do great with a plain corn carb source.
> 
> I advise people to find a premium food they can buy anywhere in the country (Iams, Eukanuba, Purina, Royal Canine, Science Diet).
> 
> Just feed your dog what you're feeding until you see a problem.
> Nate



I edited a lot. I agree, if you go to the fanciest resturaunt in town most of what you buy is "fillers". You can get all the nutrition you need out of a pill but your belly is against your backbone so roughage is nice. 

As far as the "premium" companies you named, I would not buy a nickels worth of anything from Iams nor Eukanuba nor Science Diet because they support PETA with the profits off my dollar.

I agree ,  If a dog can not handle corn in his diet then the breeder should handle it as a CULL situation.  Breeders make excuse too and make you feel like the canine needs Lobster and caviar to get by. They are the worst of the worst about guilt and "premium feeding".

Lastly, I agree, "just keep feeding what you are feeding until you see a problem". Then take it to the vet and if the vet says this dog cannot handle corn then leave it with the vet to CULL.


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## chocolate dog

Victor because its a much better food than Pro Plan, less expensive and I can buy it at my local feed and seed store instead of driving at least 20 miles for Pro Plan.


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## rnelson5

chocolate dog said:


> Victor because its a much better food than Pro Plan, less expensive and I can buy it at my local feed and seed store instead of driving at least 20 miles for Pro Plan.



What makes is better??? I am not attacking, just asking.


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## chocolate dog

Scrapy said:


> Then take it to the vet and if the vet says this dog cannot handle corn then leave it with the vet to CULL.



SO if a dog cant handle corn, kill it? 


That has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever read on here


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## mschlapa

Nutri-Source Super Performance.
I have fed many feeds over the years including Victor and PPP. The Nutri-Source is by far the best feed to date.


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## Hooked On Quack

Ole Roy, let 'em eat til they puke.


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## specialk

I'd rather talk politics or religion.....a lot less arguing.....


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## krazybronco2

robbie i tried about 4 diff foods and finally found one that i like. i tried eukanuba (way to expensive) PPP (not bad but not great but produced a big poop!) loyall preformance (the same as PPP but put alot of weight on in the process) and then Victor super nice coat small poop and dog still as the go when needed also cheaper than PPP or loyall. 

only problem with our area is there is only one place that sells victor and it is in North augusta the place is called bark mart so when i go to buy food i buy 2 bags and when i open the last bag of food i head over and buy 2 more bags.

also you have a puppy so you need a puppy food not adult food.


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## BrownDog20886

Corn gets incorrectly blamed for a lot of problems.  When dogs have problems with a food, it is usually the primary protein, AKA the meat, that is the issue.  The carb source also brings some protein to the table, but that protein causes fewer problems.  Feeding a food allergic dog is very complex and beyond the scope of this conversation, but I just wanted to try to dispel the "corn is the great Satan" myth.

Everyone will have their own favorite.  In the end, good dog foods aren't cheap.  I feel there are four classes of food: cheap (Ol Roy, Riverrun, Joy, Diamond, etc that I wouldn't feed to anything but a crawfish), adequate (Purina Dog Chow, Pedigree, etc that are okay for yard dogs and pot-lickers), premium (previously listed; for dogs that have to actually work) and luxury (Blue Buffalo, the Royal Canine specialty diets, etc).  

I can spot a dog that is fed cheap food when he walks in the door.  Their haircoat and muscling give them away.  They have a flabby look even though they aren't fat and their coats look like they just rolled in a gravel driveway.  I can also spot a hard working dog that is only being fed Dog Chow.  They'll have decent muscle, but they'll have almost no fat and their coat will be dull.  I feel you get a very good food for your money when you buy the premium foods.  Working dogs that eat premium foods generally look slicked out and bowed up.  Even so, one dog might do better on one brand than another.  I can't see any improvement in dogs that are fed the luxury foods instead of a premium food.  

Despite the claims to the contrary, all those big national brands I listed have excellent QC programs.  Purina's QC program is top notch.  Recalls happen, but they don't bother me unless they show a pattern.  So far, I haven't seen such a pattern.  Some small feed mills make awesome foods while others make junk.  You can't tell by looking at them.  All you can do is feed it to see if your dog does well on it.  It takes 2-3 months to really know how your dog does on it and it then takes 1-2 years to be certain they make a consistent product.  I move every 2-4 years whether I want to or not and I travel a lot in between, so I don't mess with small mill foods.  If you find one you like and you don't travel, go for it.

Nate


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## specialk

krazybronco2 said:


> robbie i tried about 4 diff foods and finally found one that i like..



this is the best answer to the O.P.'s question......try several until you get one your dog(s) like and works good for you and them.....good luck!


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## ryanh487

Costco brand.  Filler free--no corn, no wheat, no byproducts.  Wellness/Innova/Solid Gold quality at Iams prices.


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## GA DAWG

Hooked On Quack said:


> Ole Roy, let 'em eat til they puke.


 Funny you say that. Ive been lured into the natural feeds nowdays myself. Even though Ive treed hundreds of coons and looked just as good as any others doing it on a corn based food. Anyhow. A guy had a dog at our club here while back. I mean a good looking sucker. Beautiful coat just a shining. You could tell he was full of pee and vinegar to. Had been winning all over the place then. I said dern man what you feeding that dog. He says ol roy. I said bull. He said he swore by it. So dogs lived just as long and performed just as good back before all this non corn money grabbing gimmick feed came around.


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## chocolate dog

My question is why would you NOT feed your dog the very best you can afford?     Ol Roy etc is garbage and I have to laugh at the justifications people use to feed that crap to their dog.   Of course, its likely the same people that fill their kids full of McDonalds and other junk food all the time. 

Just because they can live off of it, doesnt mean its good for them.

Im not knocking PPP Sport but the truth is, for the money, there is better food out there.  I was a believer and fed it for about two years or more.   That is, until I was introduced to Victor which is cheaper and a bigger bag and IMHO a better food.

Another thing most people dont know is, Purina One and PPP are about 99% identical ingredient wise.  Check it out for yourself. Purina One is just 28/16 instead of 30/20 though.  Purina One is readily available at your local box store where as PPP isnt.   Something to think about anyway.

Ill stick to the small mill Victor.     One thing I do believe in is that dog food is not something to skimp on.


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## king killer delete

Hooked On Quack said:


> Ole Roy, let 'em eat til they puke.


 Quack do not forget the real good stuff. Martha White, Trail Blazer, Sunshine and The great Jim Dandy.


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## Scrapy

chocolate dog said:


> SO if a dog cant handle corn, kill it?
> 
> 
> That has to be the dumbest thing Ive ever read on here


 Not the dumbest thing I ever read on here. I did not say kill. I said Cull.  Keep it out of your breeding stock if it cannot handle corn. Get rid of it if somebody will take it. Spay or neuter.  Some breeders do genetics testing for a lot of things that will likely never happen and a lot of that is minor stuff. But having to feed a dog premium feed all its life because it cannot handle corn is something that ought to be known and declared by breeders Or sellers of older dogs, it should be divulged as a FAULT.


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## Joe Overby

Robbie, this question gets brought up every couple months....it's like the ford/Chevy debate only worse...most have no idea why one food is better than another...they just like a cheaper price...

That said, I have fed a bunch of different foods...PPP, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Nutro, Enhance, Arkat, Royal Canin, Sportmix, PMI Exclusive, Blue Buffalo, Black Gold, Blackwood, and Victor. I feed Victor for multiple reasons:
1. Price per pound
2. Stool volume 
3. Human consumption grade ingredients
4. QC standard...if you would like more info pm me
5. Recovery
6. Performance
7. Stamina 
8. Company transparency with contents of the bag and nutrition information.

Victor flat works for 90% of my kennel, nothing else ever has...I feed Victor cause it works. I don't feed any of the others because...wait for it...they don't work for me.

Now, as far as scrapy wanting to cull dogs because they need to eat a "premium food"...let's just say I both agree and disagree with him. I have had to feed a dog a prescription diet due to allergies for the past 8 years...it's expensive to say the least. However, to CHOOSE to feed Ol Roy should also be a crime. It's pure T garbage and yes Nate, corn. And no Nate, corn isn't good for dogs. They, like us, cannot digest it. Unlike us, they don't have a say in what they eat. The less filler you can feed the better off the dog will be. 

Robbie, whatever brand you choose, please feed the dog a premium food. You don't wanna eat crap every day...why would you feed it to your dog?


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## jonathon27

I have fed a large volume of dogs a few different brands including ppp. Some dogs do well on ppp, including some NFC's, while others do not. I feed Nutri source super performance because the greatest majority of dogs in the kennel do well with it. It is a 32/21 blend providing plenty of energy to keep weight on your dog even within the most rigorous training program.


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## rnelson5

Thanks for the wealth of info guys. This Victor food. Do they make it in a puppy food?


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## BrownDog20886

Joe Overby said:


> Corn isn't good for dogs. They, like us, cannot digest it.



How are we arguing while saying almost the same thing?  Corn should not be the first ingredient, but if it is second or third on the list, there is no need to get excited.  Corn in dog food is like wheat in our diets; it gets inaccurately blamed for everything from gravity to naked babies.  It is just a carb source and, yes, both dogs and people can digest starch, which is the primary carbohydrate in corn... ...as well as barley, peas, sweet potatoes, and any other non-grain carb option you find.  On the other hand, cats don't metabolize carbohydrates well.  Unlike dogs, they are obligate carnivores and use protein for energy, so they don't need corn, wheat, rice, etc in their diets.  The confusion arises because while dogs burn carbs just fine, they also need high quality protein.  The cheap feeds use just enough meat source protein and beet pulp to prop up the dismal protein content of the corn itself, but the protein quality is still inadequate.  The "Hi Pro" Cheap feeds are loaded with even more beet pulp which gives the dogs horrible gas.

Nate


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## Scrapy

While times are good boys, let's feed'em  lobster and caviar.  BUT. Lets say when times gits hard again, and you need a workin dawg. See what I mean????  A "workin" dog that can't eat corn  . HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .

Here is one old verse from a Depression Era song.

"I cooked some bisquit for my dog, 
and laid them on the shelf. 
Times got so hard I culled that dog, 
and ate them buiscuits myself."


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## Scrapy

ryanh487 said:


> Costco brand.  Filler free--no corn, no wheat, no byproducts.  Wellness/Innova/Solid Gold quality at Iams prices.



If I am not mistaken, Costco is manufactured by Diamond or Vise versa. Diamond has had it's ups and downs , mostly because they paid for so called lyin high dollar coondogs that were not worth $50. Instead of court battles . They just paid up....One dog they paid $4,000 for was a road runner and got runned over and I know it and the fellow knows it. and it got it's deservins, it got run over out in the road rather than hunting and running a track.   My cur coondogs were eating the same batch of Diamond Feed at the same time. I know the facts of the matter.

A 26/18 as a ratio of Protein to Fat suits me. A 30/20 is the same ratio/ration  and suits me. I would expect to feed just a tiny bit less on a daily basis.  But when I am hunting my "workin dogs " hard in Winter, It does not bother me to double what feed goes in their pan. You look at them and you can tell, and if you can't , you just can't.


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## Scrapy

Way back yander when deer hunting was a Big Deal. A magazine writer wrote crazy stuff about local dogs and local deer and local hunters. Times have now past and the writer has already proven hisself to be a stupid idiot. Time tells.


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## bkl021475

rnelson5 said:


> Thanks for the wealth of info guys. This Victor food. Do they make it in a puppy food?



Yeah, they make a puppy brand but it is 33/15. I'm not sure a puppy even needs that much protein. I started mine off on the 24/20 red bag and she did fine. I think the kibble is the same size as the puppy version.
http://www.victordogfood.com/dogfood.html


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## riverbank

I have heard lots of good things about the victor dog food. I have not tried it myself.  Ihave tried lots and lots of other feeds, some that have been mentioned and some tthat have not . I will say this.... I feed diamond dog food. The naturals line of it. I have 6 dogs in my yard and they all look awesome. Very little stool, very solid build, and a nice coat on them all. When we are working hard I will step them up to the diamond naturals extreme athlete . When were not doing much it'sdiamond nnaturals beef and lamb. I get it from my feed store for around 33 a bag. Tractor supply ccarries it but it's WAY  Higher there.


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## GA DAWG

riverbank said:


> I have heard lots of good things about the victor dog food. I have not tried it myself.  Ihave tried lots and lots of other feeds, some that have been mentioned and some tthat have not . I will say this.... I feed diamond dog food. The naturals line of it. I have 6 dogs in my yard and they all look awesome. Very little stool, very solid build, and a nice coat on them all. When we are working hard I will step them up to the diamond naturals extreme athlete . When were not doing much it'sdiamond nnaturals beef and lamb. I get it from my feed store for around 33 a bag. Tractor supply ccarries it but it's WAY  Higher there.


$5 off a bag this week on naturals.


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## gemcgrew

Ol Roy 

"There's no scientific evidence that any food is better than the next. Pets can thrive on inexpensive food or become ill from pricey food. If your animal is active and healthy, the food is doing its job. A higher price could mean better ingredients and better quality control during and after manufacturing. But you might also be paying for pretty packaging, marketing, or a fancy name". (Joseph Wakshlag, D.V.M., Ph.D., an assistant professor of clinical nutrition at the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine)


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## riverbank

GA DAWG said:


> $5 off a bag this week on naturals.



Is that everywhere ?


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## GA DAWG

riverbank said:


> Is that everywhere ?


I guess. It was in a flyer I got last sunday. Was like the 6-12th or something.


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## Joe Overby

Victor puppy is not a 33/15. It is a 30/20. I don't like putting that much protein through a puppy's kidneys. I feed the 24/20 for every dog from puppy to senior.


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## bkl021475

Joe Overby said:


> Victor puppy is not a 33/15. It is a 30/20. I don't like putting that much protein through a puppy's kidneys. I feed the 24/20 for every dog from puppy to senior.



This is where I saw the 33/15 info
www.victordogfood.com/all_life.html


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## Joe Overby

I but victor by the pallet. I've never seen that food available in any store. Furthermore, my distributor cannot even get it. I asked this am. If you're buying victor puppy in georgia it's either 30/20 or the all life stages 26/18 in the purple bag.


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## Water Swat

feed whatever makes them poop firm and small. has lots of energy. and looks good. for me its Sportmix for 80% of my dogs now. I have a few that are on different stuff but the majority are doing well on the Sportmix from Tractor Supply. I just despise our closest tractor supply and go up to a different one and stock up once a month.


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## Scrapy

Water Swat said:


> feed whatever makes them poop firm and small. has lots of energy. and looks good. for me its Sportmix for 80% of my dogs now. I have a few that are on different stuff but the majority are doing well on the Sportmix from Tractor Supply. I just despise our closest tractor supply and go up to a different one and stock up once a month.



Lots of folks are small and firm poop counters that kick passings out the trailorhouse door or else it is bad feed.  I have working dogs that stay in big pens on the ground and not in the house.  So, CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored don't matter much to me. I Am in the south with warm soil and lot of soil micro organisms to break down poop.  You won't find a three day old poop in my pen after 25 years of it in the same big ground pens.  Give me a better reason for sprtmix or any other kind of feed, fancy or not, politically correct or not.


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## Scrapy

A 30 /20 is high% for anything but winter and working real hard  . A 24 /18 is good therefore a 12/9 is good if you feed twice as much and if 24/18 cost $25 and you can get 12/9 for $12.50 then its the same if you feed twice as much just expect twice as much poop.  

If you could get a 60/40 and feed a half a cup instead ed of two, the dogs would meet you at the gate barking, "For goodness sakes man , throw me a bale of hay or a pot of grits, I got to get my stomach off my back bone".   But you say, "No. I am a great believer in small, firm ones".


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## Water Swat

Water Swat said:


> poop firm and small. has lots of energy. and looks good.





Scrapy said:


> Give me a better reason for sprtmix or any other kind of feed, fancy or not, politically correct or not.



I gave you 3. i may not be as highly educated and as great a communicator as you. I'm not a scientist or dog food Dr. 
I can give you what I can see. What comes back out after they eat it. how it effects their energy,  and what they look like. 

I would guess mine are a little more active than your working dogs that are sitting in a pen most days.


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## shotgun

you can buy Victor at Hearthsong on Belair road next to Burger King.


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## GA DAWG

Scrapy thats how I see it to. Ive said all along all these new fangled feeds are money gimmicks. I was sucked in on em  Course mines cheap cheap. I cant tell any difference. Best feed I think Ive fed is Blackgold.  I started buying it it was $13 a bag. I quit it was 29.50 and it went up pretty darn fast at that. Main reason I quit though was every bag had about 3 different kinds of food it. I kept telling them and telling them. Nobody would fix it. So most around here stopped feeding it. Plus they blamed all the rise in cost on fuel costs. Well fuel aint as high as it was. The dog food didnt come back down. I can get victor right up above the house for 33 a bag. Is that high or about right? Any of yall know?


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## chocolate dog

GA DAWG said:


> I can get victor right up above the house for 33 a bag. Is that high or about right? Any of yall know?



Pretty dang good deal for single bag purchase IMO.


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## krazybronco2

shotgun said:


> you can buy Victor at Hearthsong on Belair road next to Burger King.



they sell maybe 4 diff kinds of victor unless they got a lot more in the last 9months to a year because they didn't have the red bag when i went there.


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## GA DAWG

chocolate dog said:


> Pretty dang good deal for single bag purchase IMO.


That was the 24/20 I had checked on..I may check again and see about the professional one thats 26/18 see how much it is.


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## rnelson5

krazybronco2 said:


> they sell maybe 4 diff kinds of victor unless they got a lot more in the last 9months to a year because they didn't have the red bag when i went there.



I think I will call tomorrow and check.


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## RUTTNBUCK

shotgun said:


> you can buy Victor at Hearthsong on Belair road next to Burger King.





krazybronco2 said:


> they sell maybe 4 diff kinds of victor unless they got a lot more in the last 9months to a year because they didn't have the red bag when i went there.





rnelson5 said:


> I think I will call tomorrow and check.


You can always order it from Amazon. That is what we did when we tried Victor.


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## Scrapy

Water Swat said:


> I gave you 3. i may not be as highly educated and as great a communicator as you. I'm not a scientist or dog food Dr.
> I can give you what I can see. What comes back out after they eat it. how it effects their energy,  and what they look like.
> 
> I would guess mine are a little more active than your working dogs that are sitting in a pen most days.



Please don't take me wrong. If you have need of a special purpose dog feed for special dogs, by all means buy whatever it takes to fill that need. Mine sit in a pen to keep from getting gator ate in summer. In winter I feed more of the same feed. Bring your active dogs over in November and let's see.


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## Water Swat

Heck sportmix aint special. Just a common low rated feed that tractor supply peddles. It just works well at my kennel. I was getting about 50/50 results from Victor. And getting about 90/10 from the sport mix.


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## riverbank

I ain't saying what works and what's good or better than others, I'm with everyone else, feed what works for you,  if your dog is looking good and performing to your standards then feel him/her whatever is making the animal satisfy your needs, I don't care if it's blow pops. Like I said in the other post though. I like diamond naturals, I have fooled around with quite a few other feeds and this is what I like the best. It does exactly what I want it to do all year long,  it's not a cheap food, but it ain't high either, the bottom line is I like it, it works FOR ME , and I can afford it. (I'm not at all saying anyone else cant) would I recommend it to others ? Heck yeah, am I a die hard,  nothing but this food will work for you type of person? Nope.  It just works for me , I like it and that's what I feed. There are other brands that probably work just as good or better, I suggest trying some recommendations and see what works for you.


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## macdog82881

Diamond Naturals chicken and rice !!!!!!
Best I've found, coat stays good and poop is solid !!


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## grouper throat

Showtime 24/20 off season and 31/22 in season. It works for me. I don't put low octane into my race cars.. I want to run the deer so hard he's about knee-level high running for his life. 

Genetics play a big part in it, you can raise and run a big strong dog on crappy food and I have seen it a lot. Back before the "black gold" days about 15+ year ago they sold a ruff n tuff 21/10 (still around I think) and dogs were fast and build off it too and it was a terrible food for digestion.


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## K80

Victor because of taking Joes advice on here. 

Me,  I won't touch Dimond because of all the dogs they have killed.   Victor,  not one recall. 

33 dollars for the red bag Joe feeds is a normal price around here. 

The red bag puppy mentioned above is a grain free dog food thus cost is going to be higher is you can find it. 

The purple bag seems to work the best for me for coat,  activity levels,  and less stool.


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## Scrapy

Some body been prothlestatise.


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## GA DAWG

macdog82881 said:


> Diamond Naturals chicken and rice !!!!!!
> Best I've found, coat stays good and poop is solid !!


 That is some good feed. Its actually better than the meat one I feed and cheaper in the stores. My man cant get it though.


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## southerndraw

Diamond...super high in protein. That's all I fed my baby since she was a pup and she's all muscle and very active.


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## fireman32

Old southern bulldog, had him on ol'roy for awhile and he was lethargic, muscle tone dropped and his coat was fairly dull.  Started him on Science diet (unaware of their PETA affiliation) he flat improved.  Gained about 10 pounds, muscle tone is much more defined and his coat is shinier with much more energy.


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## greg_n_clayton

I would like to bring this topic to the top !! I read in a few posts that to find a feed that keeps on weight and what works takes a while !! What has been working for you folks ?? I got a very active Ladner Cur that I am taking off his puppy feed and going to a "dog" feed. I want something that will put weight on him !! The breed, as yall know, are a active breed and have a slim look to begin with because of their activeness !! I have been leaning toward the no filler Pride Feed because it is local. I think it is the yellow bag. Got a friend of mine that has a "pack" of dogs that he feeds the 24/20 black bag that works well for him. His dogs aren't nearly as active as mine unless he puts them "out" there. But it has the fillers. 

What are you folks' opinions...now days...on your/the feeds that are out there as far as the no filler vs filler feeds ??


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## Barebowyer

All I feed is Pro Plan Sport and I couldn't ask for more.  Healthy dog, shiny coat, tons of energy


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## Jeremiah Glaze

Victor!


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## JustUs4All

Victor can be had wit free delivery through Chewy.com.

Tractor Supply's 4-Health ain't a bad food either.


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## 7Mag Hunter

Website that does independent Dog Food reviews...Every brand..

www.dogfoodadvisors.com


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## JohnnyReb75

Ive had good luck w Acana and Orijen dog foods...both 5 star rating on www.dogfoodadvisors.com


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## brownceluse

Barebowyer said:


> All I feed is Pro Plan Sport and I couldn't ask for more.  Healthy dog, shiny coat, tons of energy



I’ve been feeding it for 7 years. Never had a issue. Good stuff


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## shawnrice

Diamond Hi Energy ...best my dogs have ever looked and full of energy


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## Hillbilly stalker

shawnrice said:


> Diamond Hi Energy ...best my dogs have ever looked and full of energy



X2 and keep them wormed and exercised. It keeps mine slick.


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