# Dinosaurs?



## Ronnie T (Aug 14, 2012)

Is there any biblical proof that dinosaurs were on the ark?

.
Yes


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 14, 2012)

I think that dinosaurs grew large in the time period when men lived to be 900+ years old. I think that they are here now, just 900 years younger.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 14, 2012)

Here's an interesting web site.
There are many, many other sites that verify.

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/


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## Ronnie T (Aug 14, 2012)

Job 41 (NASB)

41 “Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?
Or press down his tongue with a cord?
 2 “Can you put a rope in his nose
Or pierce his jaw with a hook?
 3 “Will he make many supplications to you,
Or will he speak to you soft words?
 4 “Will he make a covenant with you?
Will you take him for a servant forever?
 5 “Will you play with him as with a bird,
Or will you bind him for your maidens?
6 “Will the traders bargain over him?
Will they divide him among the merchants?
 7 “Can you fill his skin with harpoons,
Or his head with fishing spears?
 8 “Lay your hand on him;
Remember the battle; you will not do it again!
 9 “Behold, your expectation is false;
Will you be laid low even at the sight of him?
 10 “No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him;
Who then is he that can stand before Me?
 11 “Who has given to Me that I should repay him?
Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
 12 “I will not keep silence concerning his limbs,
Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame.
 13 “Who can strip off his outer armor?
Who can come within his double mail?
 14 “Who can open the doors of his face?
Around his teeth there is terror.
 15 “His strong scales are his pride,
Shut up as with a tight seal.
 16 “One is so near to another
That no air can come between them.
 17 “They are joined one to another;
They clasp each other and cannot be separated.
 18 “His sneezes flash forth light,
And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
 19 “Out of his mouth go burning torches;
Sparks of fire leap forth.
 20 “Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth
As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
 21 “His breath kindles coals,
And a flame goes forth from his mouth.
 22 “In his neck lodges strength,
And dismay leaps before him.
 23 “The folds of his flesh are joined together,
Firm on him and immovable.
 24 “His heart is as hard as a stone,
Even as hard as a lower millstone.
 25 “When he raises himself up, the mighty fear;
Because of the crashing they are bewildered.
 26 “The sword that reaches him cannot avail,
Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin.
 27 “He regards iron as straw,
Bronze as rotten wood.
 28 “The arrow cannot make him flee;
Slingstones are turned into stubble for him.
 29 “Clubs are regarded as stubble;
He laughs at the rattling of the javelin.
 30 “His underparts are like sharp potsherds;
He spreads out like a threshing sledge on the mire.
 31 “He makes the depths boil like a pot;
He makes the sea like a jar of ointment.
 32 “Behind him he makes a wake to shine;
One would think the deep to be gray-haired.
 33 “ Nothing on earth is like him,
One made without fear.
 34 “He looks on everything that is high;
He is king over all the sons of pride.”


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## formula1 (Aug 15, 2012)

*Re:*

Everything that was made was created by God.  There is nothing that is not made by His hands. Dinosaurs exist today, they call them crocodiles, alligators, iquanas and such. Ever seen a bowfin? It is a living fossil!  There is no doubt in my mind they existed in the time of the scriptures as well.

God really does laugh at the wisdom of man! I laugh too at how little we really know, though we often think we know so much!


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Job 41 (NASB)
> 
> 41 “Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?
> Or press down his tongue with a cord?
> ...



Very good literary impression of a croc... which is really a large castle surrounding a pea brain.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

After growing up around alligators, the above impression is far too superior to be an ordinary croc or gator.

And this one breathes fire.

"Nothing on earth is like him, one made without fear."

"He looks on everything that is high; he is king over all the sons of pride."


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

Isaiah 30: 6 The oracle concerning the beasts of the Negev.
Through a land of distress and anguish,
From where come lioness and lion, viper and flying serpent,.......


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## rjcruiser (Aug 15, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> I think that dinosaurs grew large in the time period when men lived to be 900+ years old. I think that they are here now, just 900 years younger.



Interesting thought.  Never heard that before....but I can see how that could make sense.



Ronnie T said:


> Is there any biblical proof that dinosaurs were on the ark?



Nope.


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## SarahFair (Aug 15, 2012)

Sure, why not?
They may not have been the dinos we know through museums though..
Have you ever really observed  a chicken or watched how they hunt/communicate?
With my very limited knowledge of dinosaurs, they do resemble them.
They have even found fossils of dinosaurs with feathers..


Interestingly enough I read an artical saying that the skeletons of what is believed to be what we evolved from are the men that use to live 900+ years and that the enlarged forehead is from continuous growth of the skeletal structure


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Is there any biblical proof that dinosaurs were on the ark?



I took a creation studies course once where the prof claimed they were on the ark, and they were fed grass and such.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I took a creation studies course once where the prof claimed they were on the ark, and they were fed grass and such.



Truth is, if they existed when God spoke with Job; and if they were created at the same time all other animals were created (sixth day), they were on the ark.
Somehow.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Truth is, if they existed when God spoke with Job; and if they were created at the same time all other animals were created (sixth day), they were on the ark.
> Somehow.



Really?

You don't think that the fish survived the flood?

Do you think that the Leviathon survived the flood in the water?  Kinda like the whales?


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

Then, we can debate the nature of the book of Job. 

The creation studies prof said they probably used baby T-rex.....and fed them grass.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 15, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Then, we can debate the nature of the book of Job.
> 
> The creation studies prof said they probably used baby T-rex.....and fed them grass.



Who knows.

I do believe that dinasours existed.  Where they extinct by the time of the flood?  Who knows.

I believe that RonnieT asked for Biblical proof.  I don't think that there is Biblical proof for it or against it.  2 of every land animal were taken on the ark.  So...if they were around, then they were taken.  If they weren't around...they weren't taken.

I don't think it is a big deal either way.


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> I don't think it is a big deal either way.



Agreed


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Really?
> 
> You don't think that the fish survived the flood?
> 
> Do you think that the Leviathon survived the flood in the water?  Kinda like the whales?



Yes.  Those of the sea would not have been placed on the Ark.
Only those who lived upon the land.  
I'm assuming there were dinosaurs that could not have survived in the sea.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Then, we can debate the nature of the book of Job.
> 
> The creation studies prof said they probably used baby T-rex.....and fed them grass.



And Isaiah and Psalms.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 15, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Who knows.
> 
> I do believe that dinasours existed.  Where they extinct by the time of the flood?  Who knows.
> 
> ...



how big of a boat would that have to have been with dino's and all others's paired up and all if they were alive ....how big was it without dino's?


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## gtparts (Aug 15, 2012)

rj and I have disagreed on more than one or two things, but I am squarely in his camp on this. Some stuff is interesting to investigate and speculate upon, but this is just one of those questions that can't benefit our spiritual growth, I don't believe.

No offense intended, Ronnie.


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 15, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Very good literary impression of a croc... which is really a large castle surrounding a pea brain.



A fire breathing Croc?  Sounds more like a dragon to me.  Remember, we have written history where people killed fire breathing dragons within the past 1000 years

Pappy


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## hobbs27 (Aug 15, 2012)

Jurassic Ark.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

gtparts said:


> rj and I have disagreed on more than one or two things, but I am squarely in his camp on this. Some stuff is interesting to investigate and speculate upon, but this is just one of those questions that can't benefit our spiritual growth, I don't believe.
> 
> No offense intended, Ronnie.



Wait a second, did you just voice your displeasure in the fact that I began a thread that does not provide you with any spiritual growth??

I began the thread to bring up the fact that the Bible speaks of great animals that are no longer living today.  Along with a web site that gives evidence that dinosaurs existed during the life of mankind.

Now I got internet friends coming out to voice their concern that the thread provides no spiritul growth for them??  With all the other stuff that gets posted on this forum?

Please.
If you aren't interested, move on.
But please don't hassle me because the thread doesn't interest you!


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## fish hawk (Aug 15, 2012)

I think theres a lot of Christians out there that are interested in this subject,me being one of them!!!


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm with 'ya.  I like this stuff.  I took the course I mentioned earlier was an elective that I didn't need.  I just took it 'cause it was there and I was interested.  

That being said, I still think it doesn't matter what a person believes on the subject.  It is just fun to discuss.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> A fire breathing Croc?  Sounds more like a dragon to me.  Remember, we have written history where people killed fire breathing dragons within the past 1000 years
> 
> Pappy



Did you ever see a croc or a hippo blow off mist in the early morning? I'm thinking it is not unlike smoke.

As far a fire breathing dragons go ...it is usually associated with lava flows, lava tunnels that snake into the earth and lave fires from fissures and steam and smoke from active gushers... and other vulcanic activity. This was the case in England, as an example, at some time I believe when Island blew her top.

For pagans in now Scotland, Ireland, Whales and England who lived with the many spirits of nature, killing a fire breathing dragon was a very important thing. I might mean that the cold climate and the dust in the clouds might let up  sufficient to let the huddled people plant crops and pasture their herds again.


Their are many reasons why fire beathing is not practical for carnivors or herbivors.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

I've recently learned that young children are really in to dinosaurs.  My 9 yo grandson says they haven't studied them in school but he knows all the different types.  Might have something to do with movies and video games????

I recently had a church member email me concerning dinosaurs. His father didn't believe dinosaurs ever existed, because he's never seen one, and the Bible doesn't discuss them.

But the Bible does discuss them.  Some, even some Christians, claim those animals described in the Bible are probably a hippo and probably a crocodile.  Everyone should look closely at those descriptions.  The descriptions don't match.

Two things are important:  (1)  Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible (2)  There is modern-day physical proof that mankind has seen dinosaurs centuries ago.

If you interested, (?)(certainly, if you aren't don't waste your time), check out this website:  http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

Near the top of the page you'll see a portion of the wall that King Nebuchadnezzar had constructed in 600 BC.  It has dinosaurs/dragons imprinted on a very large section of the wall.
Either those came from an artists imagination, or they had seen the dragons for themselves.  A picture of the wall is included at the website.

It debunks the ascertion that dinosaurs lived over 160 billon years ago.

It debunks the dating system that dates evolution.

It is relevant information.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Did you ever see a croc or a hippo blow off mist in the early morning? I'm thinking it is not unlike smoke.
> 
> As far a fire breathing dragons go ...it is usually associated with lava flows, lava tunnels that snake into the earth and lave fires from fissures and steam and smoke from active gushers... and other vulcanic activity. This was the case in England, as an example, at some time I believe when Island blew her top.
> 
> ...



Are you saying that it is probably not as God described?
And why would you need for it to be something other than a dragon or dinosaur?
Does it need to be logical today for it to be true?


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Truth is, if they existed when God spoke with Job; and if they were created at the same time all other animals were created (sixth day), they were on the ark.
> Somehow.



They were not on the ark. They had disapeared long before Noah. Which is why the good books does not mean dinasaurs.  It means crocs and large fish, or laviathans...which were alive in the minds of man as meaning aspects of their lives such as animal instinct, viseral forces, wilderness, fearsomeness, sea dept, death, and governments, govenors, states, nations, peoples etc....


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> They were not on the ark. They had disapeared long before Noah. Which is why the good books does not mean dinasaurs.  It means crocs and large fish, or laviathans...which were alive in the minds of man as meaning aspects of their lives such as animal instinct, viseral forces, wilderness, fearsomeness, sea dept, death, and governments, govenors, states, nations, peoples etc....



Why do you know that and I don't?


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## hobbs27 (Aug 15, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> They were not on the ark. They had disapeared long before Noah. Which is why the good books does not mean dinasaurs.  It means crocs and large fish, or laviathans...which were alive in the minds of man as meaning aspects of their lives such as animal instinct, viseral forces, wilderness, fearsomeness, sea dept, death, and governments, govenors, states, nations, peoples etc....



I have to agree with you.If it werent for the well documented geneologies I could see us pushing humanity in a small population protected by God millions of years ago, but that doesn't work out either.
 I have access to a farm in the mountains of eastern kentucky, I hunt each year.I myself have picked up fossils of tropical tree roots, and I've seen the rocks pushed up on these mountains containing sand with sea shells in them.
 This Earth is much older than 6000 years, and the only way around that is that God made the earth 6000 years ago and made the fossils that never actually lived....either way it doesn't allow a place for dinasaurs in the recent history.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 15, 2012)

gtparts said:


> rj and I have disagreed on more than one or two things, but I am squarely in his camp on this. Some stuff is interesting to investigate and speculate upon, but this is just one of those questions that can't benefit our spiritual growth, I don't believe.
> 
> No offense intended, Ronnie.



You're suppose to post a verse about "This topic is too weird or unbelievable or unuseful to discuss. Here is one used on me recently on a forum about soul sleep:
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Are you saying that it is probably not as God described?
> And why would you need for it to be something other than a dragon or dinosaur?
> Does it need to be logical today for it to be true?



It is as God described a croc. And I don't need anything other than integrity. Ask a big game hunter what the description is and you will be surprised that he will chamber his 375 H&H for a beast that exists, not a fiction. Also a croc is not a foreigner to the folk that  which most of the old testament is concerned about. Moses was plucked from the Nile!

God is addressing Job about something Job can relate to--something that resounds concretly in his mind. It has to be logical to Job... I just don't think the fact that a giant reptile that could not lift it's head in todays gravity was a consern with or to pock marked Job.

Job understood the description of the beast God gave him. He understood exactly the beast it was--because he knew it was living and a croc...And it was the force and the fiercesomeness of it. The description is expert of the monster Job knew as a living creature and since there was no dinasaurs in Job's day... the most likely suspect is a croc.

I don't need the beast to be anything... other than what it was to Job.


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## JB0704 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I've recently learned that young children are really in to dinosaurs.  My 9 yo grandson says they haven't studied them in school but he knows all the different types.  Might have something to do with movies and video games????



I don't think so.  My son doesn't have video games.  But he is like a dinosaur encyclopedia.  Or he was a few years ago.  Now he is a civil war fanatic.  But, anyway, he knew all the dinosaurs, the prehistoric eras, everything.

Once, when he was about 8, he went on a 2.5 hour monolog about dinosaurs.  I never stopped him, or interrupted him.  I just timed it because it was from the time we got in the truck at the hunting property all the way home.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

You believe that great, unbelievable animal God was describing was a measley gator?
For me, that discription goes far beyond any animal we have today.
Just me.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Why do you know that and I don't?



I will tell you partly why. When I was a young pup in university... I boldly provided the science department and the philosophy deparment why dinasours went extinct. And I placed man living in the days of dinasours. 

Now I was quickly put in my place. The philosophy folk pointing out that logically by evidence the big land dwelling reptiles long predated evidence for man.  I was red faced for a while.

And since my theory was that a sudden or gradual increase in the gravitational force was the cause of the extinction of large land dwelling reptiles,-- sparing sea dinosaurs-- it was pointed out that their is not evidence on the planet or in the solar system of a shift in gravitational force. Gravity has been constantant since before dinosaur evidence.

My point was that some dinosaurs were not able to lift their heads for their neck muscle structures in today's gravitational force. In other words dinosoaurs weighted less than today. ( Just like if we were to walk on the moon today we would weight less that here on earth.)

Question.What could have caused a sudden increase in gravitational force and colapse the lungs of giant reptiles, making them weight much more?

Answer. If some large mass, single or in parts, say the size of jupitor more or less, occupied space even temporary in our planetary system...then the gravitational force on all bodies in the system might increase, includeing the earth. The effect on large reptiles would most likely disasterous ( it would). If this happened overnight so to speak, a wipeout is not unimaginable.

........................

And this is how we learn things when we are young...our elders correct us our bright ideas....LOL  .


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

Again, here's God's self-description of the Leviathan.

Job 41 (NASB)

7 “Can you fill his skin with harpoons,

12 “I will not keep silence concerning his limbs,
Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame.

13 “Who can strip off his outer armor?
Who can come within his double mail(trunk)?

14 “Who can open the doors of his face?
Around his teeth there is terror.

15 “His strong scales are his pride,(Croc doesn't have scales)
Shut up as with a tight seal.
16 “One is so near to another
That no air can come between them.
17 “They are joined one to another;
They clasp each other and cannot be separated.

18 “His sneezes flash forth light,
And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 “Out of his mouth go burning torches;
Sparks of fire leap forth.
20 “Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth
As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21 “His breath kindles coals,
And a flame goes forth from his mouth.

22 “In his neck lodges strength,

23 “The folds of his flesh are joined together,
Firm on him and immovable.

25 “When he raises himself up, the mighty fear;
Because of the crashing they are bewildered.

27 “He regards iron as straw,
Bronze as rotten wood.
28 “The arrow cannot make him flee;(today, crocs are killed with arrows)

33 “ Nothing on earth is like him,
One made without fear.

34 “He looks on everything that is high;
He is king over all the sons of pride.” 

*In verse 34 God says "He looks on everything that is high"  (maybe a reference to this beasts height?)
"He is king over all the sons of pride".

I just cannot imagine that God is describing a croc.

I see God describing a fire breathing beast of some sort.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> You believe that great, unbelievable animal God was describing was a measley gator?
> For me, that discription goes far beyond any animal we have today.
> Just me.



I don't have any idea what he was describing but why would 
God go into such great detail to describe a common animal?


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> You believe that great, unbelievable animal God was describing was a measley gator?
> For me, that discription goes far beyond any animal we have today.
> Just me.



Sorry but gators don't cut is as crocs.... Crocs and gaithers are as Cape buffallo to Watossee.

Perhaps the reason the discription goes far beyond any animal we have today is 1. Animal science is a vast field. And. 2. The discription goes far beyond any animal description because it also describes God's no quarter given majesty.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't have any idea what he was describing but why would
> God go into such great detail to describe a common animal?



I've seen a few thousand gators.
God's description goes way beyond.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't have any idea what he was describing but why would
> God go into such great detail to describe a common animal?



Because Job needed a brow beating.  God could have said, "Job, see how the crocs bursts a turtle shell like it was a nut? Well I am capable of it, because I have made it. So Job, what business of yours is it to question me on this.? Be cool man. Your jawing, you and your friends, an awful lot!" But God did not do so... he basically gave the cadet an earfull of jaw.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't have any idea what he was describing but why would
> God go into such great detail to describe a common animal?



Did you check out some of those drawing on that website?


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

In Job 40 God described another of His creations.


15 “Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you;

He eats grass like an ox.

16 “Behold now, his strength in his loins

And his power in the muscles of his belly.

17 “He bends his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are knit together.

18 “His bones are tubes of bronze;

His limbs are like bars of iron.


19 “He is the first of the ways of God;

Let his maker bring near his sword.

20 “Surely the mountains bring him food,

And all the beasts of the field play there.

21 “Under the lotus plants he lies down,

In the covert of the reeds and the marsh.

22 “The lotus plants cover him with shade;

The willows of the brook surround him.

23 “If a river rages, he is not alarmed;

He is confident, though the Jordan rushes to his mouth.

24 “Can anyone capture him when he is on watch,

With barbs can anyone pierce his nose?


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Crocs wt: one ton.

Hippos wt: 3.5 tons


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> In Job 40 God described another of His creations.
> 
> 
> 15 “Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you;
> ...



One thing we should not forget  and that is the way  semetic people express themselves.  They add embellishments by comparisons to our ways.

For example a routine Lebonese greating might be "How are you and your family?" Our greeting  would not include "and your family"-- routinely.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 15, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> One thing we should not forget  and that is the way  semetic people express themselves.  They add embellishments by comparisons to our ways.
> 
> For example a Lebonese greating might be "How are you and your family?" Our greeting  would not include "and your family".



I'm just talking about what God said.

.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm just talking about what God said.
> 
> .



Yes... I know...but he said it to Job.

Had he said it to you surely he would have have said, " I have made crocs grow to 19.69 feet. Why do you what to make them to 42?

No...I'm just playing along I guess.

Sometimes what God says and what He means is my problem and my joy. Peace...


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## gordon 2 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Again, here's God's self-description of the Leviathan.
> 
> Job 41 (NASB)
> 
> ...



Ok what God says and means. What I read in 34 is that God or his ways are not unlike a crocs. He(God looks at all that is high especially as appointed by man) and He can and does bring which is high down in a heck of a hurry if He choses. He is King over the sons of pride... or mankind in General.

Now as regards Job...Job could have been done away with like a croc snatches the life out of it's pray... He could have cursed Job like a a croc can be a curse, but the curse that has befallen Job's  is that he questions God's justice and his rightiousness--for the "misfortunes" that have come to him. It's like God is telling Job, "Job suffering to you and man is as breathing air, it is in the plans, the design, it has a purpose bigger than you. Get on with it. Don't stop at walls."


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## Ronnie T (Aug 16, 2012)

Dinosaurs in American Indian Petroglyphs

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Dinoglyphs/dinoglyphs.html


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## Ronnie T (Aug 16, 2012)

Dinosaur Petroglyphs

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157169


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## rjcruiser (Aug 16, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> how big of a boat would that have to have been with dino's and all others's paired up and all if they were alive ....how big was it without dino's?



With or without...here's the measurements.

Genesis 6
15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks



gtparts said:


> rj and I have disagreed on more than one or two things, but I am squarely in his camp on this. Some stuff is interesting to investigate and speculate upon, but this is just one of those questions that can't benefit our spiritual growth, I don't believe.
> 
> No offense intended, Ronnie.







Ronnie T said:


> Wait a second, did you just voice your displeasure in the fact that I began a thread that does not provide you with any spiritual growth??
> 
> I began the thread to bring up the fact that the Bible speaks of great animals that are no longer living today.  Along with a web site that gives evidence that dinosaurs existed during the life of mankind.
> 
> ...



Hey...he's agreeing with me.  Let him post...let him post

I do think it is interesting to think about...but again, not sure anyone can determine whether or not they were on the ark.  I do think based on the scripture you provided that they were created and existed.



Ronnie T said:


> Two things are important:  (1)  Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible (2)  There is modern-day physical proof that mankind has seen dinosaurs centuries ago.



I agree.



hobbs27 said:


> This Earth is much older than 6000 years, and the only way around that is that God made the earth 6000 years ago and made the fossils that never actually lived....either way it doesn't allow a place for dinasaurs in the recent history.



Really?  Why can't you believe that the earth is 6000 years ago and the fossils are no older than that?


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## hobbs27 (Aug 16, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Why can't you believe that the earth is 6000 years ago and the fossils are no older than that?



The only way, and the only theory Ive heard that can make the 6,000 year old earth work out in my mind, is that God made it as an adult stage as he did Adam.In this theory dinosaurs never really existed but God made their fossils and biological matter as if they had.
 Other than that, I think Christians are fighting a (flat earth) battle against the critics.The evidence of a new earth is not on our side, the physical evidence of an old earth, billions of years old is overwhelming.
 I don't claim the bible to be in error, but more than once man has misinterpreted it, so I study, and I study, and at the end of every study for the conclusion I make a note to self...study more! I don't have the answer to this one, but other than the theory I mentioned above, I cant imagine a earth less than billions of years old.


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## fish hawk (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm suprised no one has mentioned 
 Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
How long was this time period?


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## formula1 (Aug 17, 2012)

*Re:*



fish hawk said:


> I'm suprised no one has mentioned
> Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
> How long was this time period?



Indeed, let's take that thought a little farther though.

Genesis 1
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Now this question can be asked, how long was that day. Well, I don't know, but this is what I do know:

Genesis 1
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

So it is reasonable, at least from my point of view, that it is not possible to define a day as a 24 hour day until the 4th day of creation when God created the sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night. Prior to the 4th day, for all we know, a day could have been a million years.  

And that is my only point, except to say that in full examination, the Word of God always proves true! God bless!


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Indeed, let's take that thought a little farther though.
> 
> Genesis 1
> 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
> ...



I think the response to this thought is the use of the word "yom" in the original.  From what Iunderstand, every time it is used in the Bible it references a 24 hour period.  In the creation class I took, the assumption of 7-day creationists is that you use the Bible as the starting point, and authority, when interpretting scientific data.

That being said, I don't see it.  We can look at the Earth and know it is very, very old.  We don't have to change science to conform to the Bible.  We can use science to help us understand what the Bible is saying.  Like another tool.


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## formula1 (Aug 17, 2012)

*Re:*

JB,

My only point is that I doubt a 'day' can be defined as a 24 hour period without a created 'sun' and the established rotation of the earth around it, which did not occur until the 4th day. Therefore, the age of the earth could be 6,000 or 6,000,000,000 and it would not violate scripture. 

Folks, you know, often get hung up on things that don't amount to much, IMHO.  The 'light' of the world, Christ, is all that is significant. And though there are many references that could indicate the existance of dinosaurs with man, in scripture and outside of it, it pales in comparison to the knowing of Christ our Lord, which is the sum of the matter.  God bless!


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## dawg2 (Aug 17, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Dinosaurs in American Indian Petroglyphs
> 
> http://www.bearfabrique.org/Dinoglyphs/dinoglyphs.html



I do not doubt there were some holdovers from the prehistoric age (more than todays crocs, gators, turtles, etc.) still roaming the north american plains.  I would not be surprised if one is eventually captured or killed in remote areas like Siberia or the Amazon.  One thing is certain though, when man encounters them, they disappear...usually in bellies.

The larger game are the 1st to go as they make easy targets and provide a lot of food for the amount of effort.  If you were hungry and needed to feed a group of people, a mammoth would work better than a bucket of field mice and berries.


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

formula1 said:


> JB,
> 
> My only point is that I doubt a 'day' can be defined as a 24 hour period without a created 'sun' and the established rotation of the earth around it, which did not occur until the 4th day. Therefore, the age of the earth could be 6,000 or 6,000,000,000 and it would not violate scripture.



I completely agree.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 17, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Other than that, I think Christians are fighting a (flat earth) battle against the critics.The evidence of a new earth is not on our side, the physical evidence of an old earth, billions of years old is overwhelming.
> I don't claim the bible to be in error, but more than once man has misinterpreted it, so I study, and I study, and at the end of every study for the conclusion I make a note to self...study more! I don't have the answer to this one, but other than the theory I mentioned above, I cant imagine a earth less than billions of years old.



Really?  There is evidence of a young earth...it just usually gets burried by critics.  And I'd disagree to an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting an old earth....again, most dating systems have been debunked and deemed inaccurate.



fish hawk said:


> I'm suprised no one has mentioned
> Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
> How long was this time period?



Interesting point.  Who knows.  Obviously, God has always been....so, infinity on God.



formula1 said:


> Indeed, let's take that thought a little farther though.
> 
> Genesis 1
> 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
> ...



Not really...why would the same term be utilized throughout the creation account and the OT.  Day means day.  Why try and explain it to mean something else?



formula1 said:


> Folks, you know, often get hung up on things that don't amount to much, IMHO.  The 'light' of the world, Christ, is all that is significant. And though there are many references that could indicate the existance of dinosaurs with man, in scripture and outside of it, it pales in comparison to the knowing of Christ our Lord, which is the sum of the matter.  God bless!





JB0704 said:


> I completely agree.



Me too!


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## hobbs27 (Aug 17, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Really?  There is evidence of a young earth...it just usually gets burried by critics.  And I'd disagree to an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting an old earth....again, most dating systems have been debunked and deemed inaccurate.



If you're interested here's a link that explains my concerns.

http://www.raptureready.com/rr-planet.html


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## hobbs27 (Aug 17, 2012)

This is a fossil I found in Kentucky on a mountain top.It's from a tropical tree more than 6000 years ago.


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## fish hawk (Aug 17, 2012)

First we must separate what is a dinosaur and what is not.I consider a dino to be something like a t rex.The beginning of the dinos started in the Trassic period with plant eaters,flying reptiles and crocs.Dino's continued on into the Jurassic period and into the Cretaceous period which was the peak of there existence and also marked their downfall.To my knowledge there have never been any artifacts that were related to man such as tools,spearpoints or anything of that nature found with a Dino fossil.So what you see in movies with cavemen fighting for there life against a T-rex is just that,made up in Hollywood
After this period we have the Tertiary and Quaternary period's where mammals started to appeared,like mastodons,sabre tooth tigers,horses,bears,camels etc>>>> we do have fossil records of man's interaction with these mammals........So There is a distinct separation between dinosaurs and mammals


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## Ronnie T (Aug 17, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> First we must separate what is a dinosaur and what is not.I consider a dino to be something like a t rex.The beginning of the dinos started in the Trassic period with plant eaters,flying reptiles and crocs.Dino's continued on into the Jurassic period and into the Cretaceous period which was the peak of there existence and also marked their downfall.To my knowledge there have never been any artifacts that were related to man such as tools,spearpoints or anything of that nature found with a Dino fossil.So what you see in movies with cavemen fighting for there life against a T-rex is just that,made up in Hollywood
> After this period we have the Tertiary and Quaternary period's where mammals started to appeared,like mastodons,sabre tooth tigers,horses,bears,camels etc>>>> we do have fossil records of man's interaction with these mammals........So There is a distinct separation between dinosaurs and mammals



Did you take a close look at this:::: ?
http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/


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## fish hawk (Aug 17, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Did you take a close look at this:::: ?
> http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/



Thats pretty wild Ronnie T.......The only thing that gets me is the lack of physical evidence,such as man made artifacts or lack of associated with fossil finds.I dont consider mammoths or mastodons  dinosausars,they are closely related to the modern elephant.Thanks for the thread ronnie i have thoroughly enjoyed it.


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## Slewfoot (Aug 18, 2012)

*Dinos*

When I was very young, I was fascinated by dinosaurs.  I then learned through public school (60's-70's) that they in fact existed and that we descended from apes.

After becoming a christian I have come to believe that dinos did exist but we did not come from apes or primordial ooze.

While I have wondered how all of the science, earth's age, dinos, etc fit together:  I have come to think that it really does not matter; God does not need me to defend His word and without faith it is impossible to please Him.  I am good with His account.

What if He placed dinos on the planet and did not explain everything, just so He could confound those who believe they are wiser?       After all, we are to become fools.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 18, 2012)

I learned in public school that rainbows had something to do with light shining through water vapor. Now, I know it is a sign from God that the earth will never be flooded again. I also learned that manna was lichens(fungus), the wind often parts the Red Sea, and the Ark of the Covenant is a giant battery.
I also learned in science class that when my heart stops beating my life will end. These scientist are so dumb.


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## formula1 (Aug 19, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Not really...why would the same term be utilized throughout the creation account and the OT.  Day means day.  Why try and explain it to mean something else?



I'm not trying to explain it.  I'm simply using scripture to understand scripture, no more, no less.  Just the way the Holy Spirit has taught me to look at this particular thing.  You can look at it however you like and I'm good with it, as long as your faith and trust in Jesus remains! It's all good!


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 19, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> I'm suprised no one has mentioned
> Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
> How long was this time period?



Does it matter how long it was if it was formless and empty?  Nothing was living here then anyway.

Personally, I believe it was in the first 24 hour day.

Pappy


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 19, 2012)

formula1 said:


> JB,
> 
> My only point is that I doubt a 'day' can be defined as a 24 hour period without a created 'sun' and the established rotation of the earth around it, which did not occur until the 4th day. Therefore, the age of the earth could be 6,000 or 6,000,000,000 and it would not violate scripture.
> 
> Folks, you know, often get hung up on things that don't amount to much, IMHO.  The 'light' of the world, Christ, is all that is significant. And though there are many references that could indicate the existance of dinosaurs with man, in scripture and outside of it, it pales in comparison to the knowing of Christ our Lord, which is the sum of the matter.  God bless!



all you have to have for a 24 hour day is a light source and a rotating planet.  God said he made earth and light. That started the light/dark clock we know today. No need for Sun or rotation around sun.

Besides, Jesus himself said the earth and all that is on the earth was created in 6 days. Why doubt that?

Pappy


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## fish hawk (Aug 19, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I'm not trying to explain it.  I'm simply using scripture to understand scripture, no more, no less.  Just the way the Holy Spirit has taught me to look at this particular thing.  You can look at it however you like and I'm good with it, as long as your faith and trust in Jesus remains! It's all good!



I like the way you keep things in perspective Formula.Jesus first and foremost!!!!


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## gordon 2 (Aug 19, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> all you have to have for a 24 hour day is a light source and a rotating planet.  God said he made earth and light. That started the light/dark clock we know today. No need for Sun or rotation around sun.
> 
> Besides, Jesus himself said the earth and all that is on the earth was created in 6 days. Why doubt that?
> 
> Pappy



Jesus thought in parables alot.


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 19, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Jesus thought in parables alot.



And you think that " it is written" starts a parable?

Like "Once upon a time" I guess.

If you believe the Bible, God himself wrote it in stone.... not once but twice.  

Some folks call them the 10 Commandments.

Pappy

well, I thought about it, and that probably comes across a little condicending.  Sorry about that.

But you know that not only did Jesus discuss the creation and taught a literally 24 hour 6 day creation, but God wrote it with His fingertip into stone twice. Once when He made the tablets for Moses and wrote it, and again after Moses had broken the tablets. Moses had to remake the tablets, but God rewrote the words.

Anyway, for those who believe in a very old earth... could you please explain to me why the seas are not putrified cesspools?  If the earth were millions or billions of years old, the  collective deposition of salt into them thru the erosion/evaporation cycle would make them so salty that no life could survive there.

Also, can you tell me why the legs on the lunar lander were so long?  

Pappy


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## formula1 (Aug 20, 2012)

*Re:*



fish hawk said:


> I like the way you keep things in perspective Formula.Jesus first and foremost!!!!



Thank you for seeing it! 

I guess I just try to re-direct the discussion away from things that we cannot know 100% and toward a building up of faith in Christ. Faith in Christ is what matters.  Following Christ is what matters. Living for Jesus is what matters.  Making our best effort to live in such a way that we might win others to Christ matters. These are the essentials we must live out. 

Perhaps there are folks out there reading this discussion and wondering where Jesus fits into their lives or even if He fits at all.  Perhaps there are unbelievers out there reading and their intellect could be turned off by an argument that we cannot know 100% (but we can believe it if we so choose).  Let's think about them when we post. Sometimes we make it all sound like you must have a certain view of this or that to live for Christ. He doesn't want us to alienate a whole segment of people from the possibility of Christ by challenging their intellect.  A life of faith in Christ is difficult enough because of our sin nature without throwing out our own stumbling blocks. Sure we won't win them all, but if we win some or even one, it is worth the effort.  So let's do our best to give everyone as much as possible the only thing that will matter that we can give, that is, salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ.  It can be found nowhere else!

God bless and thank you for your kind words!


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## fish hawk (Aug 20, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Thank you for seeing it!
> 
> I guess I just try to re-direct the discussion away from things that we cannot know 100% and toward a building up of faith in Christ. Faith in Christ is what matters.  Following Christ is what matters. Living for Jesus is what matters.  Making our best effort to live in such a way that we might win others to Christ matters. These are the essentials we must live out.
> 
> ...


Right on formula!!!
  Jesus came to earth to reconcile man to Himself.To restore the relationship between man and God as a result of rebellion.......2 Corinthians 5:18-21 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God........
He has commanded us to show that love through loving others by sharing the Gospel.I know it's off the topic of dinosaurs but I had to say it!!!!


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2012)

6,000 year old Earth????

http://news.yahoo.com/oldest-bones-modern-humans-asia-discovered-191431990.html


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## fish hawk (Aug 20, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> This is a fossil I found in Kentucky on a mountain top.It's from a tropical tree more than 6000 years ago.
> 
> View attachment 683173



Cool fossil hobbs!!!I like how it was found on a mountain top!!!And that it's a tropical tree.


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## fish hawk (Aug 20, 2012)

It's also cool how marine fossils can be found all over the U.S. in places like Ohio,North Dakota,etc.Sure was a big ocean at one time!!!


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 20, 2012)

bullethead said:


> 6,000 year old Earth????
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/oldest-bones-modern-humans-asia-discovered-191431990.html



hmmmm... can't be so.  One thing the scholars fail to mention is that the myocardial dna test prove that you run out of the human race in less than 10,000 years.  If you don't understand myocardial dna, do a google search. You will find it very interesting. 

Anyone done any reading on the salinity of the oceans? 

And those lunar landing gears are still sticking out there looking for an answer.  

Pappy


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## Ronnie T (Aug 20, 2012)

bullethead said:


> 6,000 year old Earth????
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/oldest-bones-modern-humans-asia-discovered-191431990.html






http://www.mathematicsofevolution.com/ChaptersMath/Chapter_080__Radiometric_Dating__.html

.


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> http://www.mathematicsofevolution.com/ChaptersMath/Chapter_080__Radiometric_Dating__.html
> 
> .



http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html


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## hobbs27 (Aug 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Cool fossil hobbs!!!I like how it was found on a mountain top!!!And that it's a tropical tree.



 Thanks, I thought it was pretty cool.When I first saw it I thought it was some kind of animal with scales, but soon as I got home I started checking it out and found it to be the root from a lycopsid tree.We have found tons of sea shells and those old snail fossils, but most of them are in rocks that are about the size of a car.There was a huge ocean at one time, but there was also flat land where there are mountains now and that's evident seeing sea shells up on mountains of eastern kentucky.
Here's a link showing more, mine is like the seventh pic down.

http://the-haskellok.com/fossils/id113.html


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> hmmmm... can't be so.  One thing the scholars fail to mention is that the myocardial dna test prove that you run out of the human race in less than 10,000 years.  If you don't understand myocardial dna, do a google search. You will find it very interesting.
> 
> Anyone done any reading on the salinity of the oceans?
> 
> ...




Do YOU understand myocardial dna ???


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> hmmmm... can't be so.  One thing the scholars fail to mention is that the myocardial dna test prove that you run out of the human race in less than 10,000 years.  If you don't understand myocardial dna, do a google search. You will find it very interesting.
> 
> Anyone done any reading on the salinity of the oceans?
> 
> ...



http://www.britainnews.net/index.ph...t/Britons-DNA-links-him-to-worlds-first-woman

A British pensioner got the mother of all shocks when he discovered he was directly related to Eve, the world's first woman who lived 190,000 years ago.

DNA tests found Ian Kinnaird's family tree went all the way back to the world's first woman, The Sun reported Saturday.

While most struggle to delve beyond our great grandfathers in ancestry research, the 72-year-old traced his all the way back to the beginning of humanity.

Ian said: "This is a real gobsmacker. I have led an unremarkable life until now."

He has a genetic marker, L1B1, that can be followed back to an ancient African lineage that has never before been found in Western Europe.

The research team who did the tests - Britain's DNA - said it made Ian "the grandson of a black Eve".

Ian has mitochondrial DNA which is passed through the female side, is 30,000 years old and only two genetic mutations removed from the first "black Eve".

Most people are 200 mutations removed, researchers said.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 20, 2012)

bullethead said:


> 6,000 year old Earth????
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/oldest-bones-modern-humans-asia-discovered-191431990.html





bullethead said:


> http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html





bullethead said:


> Do YOU understand myocardial dna ???





bullethead said:


> http://www.britainnews.net/index.ph...t/Britons-DNA-links-him-to-worlds-first-woman
> 
> A British pensioner got the mother of all shocks when he discovered he was directly related to Eve, the world's first woman who lived 190,000 years ago.
> 
> ...



Very informative stuff.


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## fish hawk (Aug 21, 2012)

bullethead said:


> http://www.britainnews.net/index.ph...t/Britons-DNA-links-him-to-worlds-first-woman
> 
> A British pensioner got the mother of all shocks when he discovered he was directly related to Eve, the world's first woman who lived 190,000 years ago.
> 
> ...


He said gobsmaker.


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## bullethead (Aug 21, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Very informative stuff.



This thread was in desperate need of it.


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## grouper throat (Aug 21, 2012)

Interesting topic. I believe the Earth is around the age that  general science thinks it is (too many science classes pounded that in my head). I also believe the dinosaurs were extinct or not on Noah's Ark but some of their relatives were. Most all reptiles are seen as species from the dinosaur's time and I believe this also.    

I state this as I also don't think it disproves my Faith or really has much to do with it but it is an interesting subject.


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