# Misfire Question



## jbogg (Jul 2, 2019)

I am still relatively new to muzzleloading so I will pose this question to you experts.  While at the range this morning I had two misfires in a row.  Both times there was a small puff of smoke from the primer.  I had only fired 5 - 6 shots at that point so I initially assumed that I must have built up so much crud in the breech plug that the spark was unable to reach the powder.  I always run a wet patch followed by a few dry patches down the barrel in between each shot.

When I got home to do a thorough cleaning I had to use the ramrod to push the Barnes Bullet and two white hot pellets through the breech.  The pellets had clearly been seared by the primer spark, but did not ignite.  I use the CVA barrel cleaning patches in between each shot and I’m wondering if I did not get the cleaning solvent completely removed and dried out around the breech, and if it might have dampened the pellets to the point where they wouldn’t fire.  This was the first time this has ever happened to me and I probably have 50 - 60 rounds through the barrel since new.  Any ideas?


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 2, 2019)

I don't use pellets.  FFg for me.  If I have a misfire, it is because I didn't tamp that powder down to the flash hole well enough


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jul 2, 2019)

I tried to gamble with some 209 primers that had been under water years before.
Hard lesson learned as it cost me a nice buck. Problem was it was just loud enough to spook the buck off with a fizzle but not fire the round. I knew the issue immediately and popped in another fresh primer but too late.
In your situation I think you got something wet.
You don’t have to clean after each and every shot. Some say a fouled barrel shoots best. I take about 4 5 or 6 shots before I clean it at all. Maybe poke the breech with a wire after a few. When the last one is a bit too tight seating I know it’s time to clean the barrel. Maybe I should try your wipes and maybe you should try my method meeting in the middle somewhere??? Lol.
I still use 777 pellets but know the elites use blackhorn because it’s cleaner allowing for more shots between cleaning. I want a very fast back up shot while hunting. So I’m not set for loose powder yet.
My thoughts are if you need 5 shots to hit it you might as well clean it and start over anyway! ? 

Be careful with muzzleloader misfires because they might still fire after a delay.
I got rid of those 5 primers by shooting them later. 3 out of 5 failed and 2 fired flawless. I mean they had years to dry and all. 
I think you had moisture from somewhere in your load. Stop that! Lol


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## jbogg (Jul 3, 2019)

Mr Bya Lungshot said:


> I tried to gamble with some 209 primers that had been under water years before.
> Hard lesson learned as it cost me a nice buck. Problem was it was just loud enough to spook the buck off with a fizzle but not fire the round. I knew the issue immediately and popped in another fresh primer but too late.
> In your situation I think you got something wet.
> You don’t have to clean after each and every shot. Some say a fouled barrel shoots best. I take about 4 5 or 6 shots before I clean it at all. Maybe poke the breech with a wire after a few. When the last one is a bit too tight seating I know it’s time to clean the barrel. Maybe I should try your wipes and maybe you should try my method meeting in the middle somewhere??? Lol.
> ...



 I’m thinking moisture was the problem as well.  I’m guessing I did not run enough dry patches through it after using the wet patch.   I could probably stand to fire just a primer through the barrel in between shots to make sure it is dry.


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## JMN1976 (Jul 3, 2019)

jbogg said:


> I’m thinking moisture was the problem as well.  I’m guessing I did not run enough dry patches through it after using the wet patch.   I could probably stand to fire just a primer through the barrel in between shots to make sure it is dry.



I think your on top of it with firing a few primers to clear things out.  Also as Bya said using a nipple pick at the range will help keep the hole good and clean as well.  I generally leave the ramrod and patch in the barrel and pull it up about 2-3" from breech plug to capture any crud/moisture the primer blows out.  Make sure to point the muzzle in a safe direction!!! and I have only done this with #11 caps not shotgun primers so not sure if a 209 primer will blow out the ramrod.
Generally, the moisture is not in the barrel, but rather in the breechplug and the firing of the primer pushes the moisture out the breechplug and this restricts the flame from the primer this reducing it to the point it won't set off the powder.


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## GeorgiaBob (Jul 3, 2019)

The alternatives to black powder are less prone to moisture problems, but it does happen. Especially in Georgia's very humid summers, moisture will stop a spark from igniting powder (loose or compacted). Your problem may have been compounded by the wet swabs between shots. 

Since you are not using gunpowder (black powder), which does foul barrels rapidly, you should be able to fire 5 to 10 shots WITHOUT swabbing and experience only minimal fouling. Some alternative powders are so clean many people can fire a whole day at the range and not swab a barrel until they get home. (I don't recommend that) a dry swab between shots should tell you when you need a solvent scrub!

Without solvent swabbed down the barrel there is nothing but your pellet/powder to draw moisture. Might be your cure!


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jul 3, 2019)

There is a reason, you hear guys popping caps each time they
load up before a hunt....Mositure/lube.


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## jbogg (Jul 3, 2019)

GeorgiaBob said:


> The alternatives to black powder are less prone to moisture problems, but it does happen. Especially in Georgia's very humid summers, moisture will stop a spark from igniting powder (loose or compacted). Your problem may have been compounded by the wet swabs between shots.
> 
> Since you are not using gunpowder (black powder), which does foul barrels rapidly, you should be able to fire 5 to 10 shots WITHOUT swabbing and experience only minimal fouling. Some alternative powders are so clean many people can fire a whole day at the range and not swab a barrel until they get home. (I don't recommend that) a dry swab between shots should tell you when you need a solvent scrub!
> 
> Without solvent swabbed down the barrel there is nothing but your pellet/powder to draw moisture. Might be your cure!



 I hear you, and I agree. I know pellets are supposed to be cleaner, but without running a patch down the barrel it’s almost impossible to reload more than one or two without cleaning the barrel after the initial shot.   Maybe I just need to do some more push-ups. ?


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## JMN1976 (Jul 3, 2019)

in lieu of cleaning fluids I generally just use a little spit on a patch or lick a "clean" patch good and run it down the barrel and then pull out turnover and run it again

problems begin occuring when a patch is doused with a fluid and it squeezes out of patch material and runs down into breech


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## GeorgiaBob (Jul 3, 2019)

jbogg said:


> I hear you, and I agree. I know pellets are supposed to be cleaner, but without running a patch down the barrel it’s almost impossible to reload more than one or two without cleaning the barrel after the initial shot.   Maybe I just need to do some more push-ups. ?



If you are getting fouling from White Hot - perhaps it IS the powder! Either the pellets have absorbed some moisture, or maybe it is just a bad batch. Try changing to a different brand of powder/pellets and see if that makes a difference.

I can say with certainty that I can load and fire 5 rounds through any of my .50, .45, (or the one .58) caliber smoke poles - using FFg black powder (GOEX) - without swabbing - before fouling makes a reload difficult. I was able to load and fire an Enfield 1853 Pattern rifled musket 22 times (without swabbing), using FFg GOEX, before I had to use two hands and body english to get #23 down the barrel. When I have used Pyrodex or Triple 7, the barrel remains pretty clean even after two dozen shots fired.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jul 3, 2019)

I put a patch in my mouth and get it barely wet. I swab both sides of that patch and then run 2 dry patches thru the barrel. I do this after every 4-5 shots. Your pellets were damp. The middle burnt but not the pellet.you need another box of pellets or loose powder.


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## jbogg (Jul 3, 2019)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> I put a patch in my mouth and get it barely wet. I swab both sides of that patch and then run 2 dry patches thru the barrel. I do this after every 4-5 shots. Your pellets were damp. The middle burnt but not the pellet.you need another box of pellets or loose powder.



I’m hoping I don’t need another box of pellets.  This box is less than a year old and always stored inside (climate controlled).  I’m thinking the pellets got damp from the liquid from the wet patch seeping into and around the breech plug.  On a positive note my first three shots at 100yds were all touching.  I can’t even come close to that with my .308.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jul 3, 2019)

This time of year when you take something from the AC to the outside, it sweats pretty bad. But I would say those been damp awhile.


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## 35 Whelen (Jul 3, 2019)

I use a patch with Thompson Center T17 1000 Plus Natural Lube to swab the bore every 3 or 4 shots at the range and to season the bore after cleaning and have never had a misfire.  Also, I have never "popped a cap" before loading.  Have even left my NEF Huntsman loaded from the first day of Primitive Weapons season (when no shot was taken) in October to the BF Grant Primitive Weapons season in December and no problems.


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## frankwright (Jul 3, 2019)

Some 209 primers are hotter than others also. You might try a hotter primer but the way the pellets are scorched it looks like they got some fire but did not go off.
I have never used a pellet and have always used loose, Pyrodex originally but BH209 for the last five years or so. 
I have fired 20 times at the range with no cleaning and it still loaded easily with BH209 and proper breechplug!


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## leoparddog (Jul 4, 2019)

Back when I was shooting an inline I tried the pellets. The first season they were fine, the next season they took two primers to set off or hang fired.  I guess they may have absorbed some moisture from the air over the year.  These were in a box and not an air tight container.  I concur with the above.  The pellets got a bit damp.

If you are wet patching and then dry patching before the load, you may have gotten some moisture into the primer channel of the breach plug.  Then the primer blew the moisture out in front of its fire and dampened the inside hole of the pellet before the fire could set it off.  

I doubt the entire pellet got wet if you were dry patching before loading, but there is moisture somewhere - in the pellet, ignition channel/breach plug or weak primers.


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## jbogg (Jul 5, 2019)

leoparddog said:


> Back when I was shooting an inline I tried the pellets. The first season they were fine, the next season they took two primers to set off or hang fired.  I guess they may have absorbed some moisture from the air over the year.  These were in a box and not an air tight container.  I concur with the above.  The pellets got a bit damp.
> 
> If you are wet patching and then dry patching before the load, you may have gotten some moisture into the primer channel of the breach plug.  Then the primer blew the moisture out in front of its fire and dampened the inside hole of the pellet before the fire could set it off.
> 
> I doubt the entire pellet got wet if you were dry patching before loading, but there is moisture somewhere - in the pellet, ignition channel/breach plug or weak primers.



In hindsight this is exactly what I believe happened.   I don’t think the pellets have absorbed moisture from anywhere else. They come sealed in a plastic cylinder inside each box.


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jul 5, 2019)

@jbogg are you using pure lead, wheel weights, sabot, powerbelt or what?
My second shot is easier than the third and fourth but nothing is as easy as the first shot. I’ve shot as many as 8 or 10 without cleaning anything. When it’s hard to seat for real is when I clean it.
Maybe your lead is not pure and is a little too hard? I’ve got no experience with sabots. Either that or you want a clean barrel for every shot?
One problem solved creating another?


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## jbogg (Jul 6, 2019)

Mr Bya Lungshot said:


> @jbogg are you using pure lead, wheel weights, sabot, powerbelt or what?
> My second shot is easier than the third and fourth but nothing is as easy as the first shot. I’ve shot as many as 8 or 10 without cleaning anything. When it’s hard to seat for real is when I clean it.
> Maybe your lead is not pure and is a little too hard? I’ve got no experience with sabots. Either that or you want a clean barrel for every shot?
> One problem solved creating another?



The Barnes Bullets I use are sabots.  I have been able to load/shoot up to three times before cleaning, but loading that 3rd time is near impossible.


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## Rabun (Jul 8, 2019)

I have gone the pellet route and returned to 100 grains of loose powder...Pyrodex RS.  Have also tried several sabot bullets and power belts and returned to lubricated lead...350 grain TC maxi hunter.  I get much more consistent results with these combinations in my inline.  My side lock carbine likes 90 grains of ffg black powder with the maxi hunter and my flintlock likes 90 grains of ffg black powder under a patched .490 round ball.

I always fire a cap before loading the inline and side lock to insure the nipple is clear.  And when hunting, I store my muzzle loader in the car so it doesn't sweat going from warm to cold in the am.  My goal is to unload on an animal...otherwise I keep it loaded until after the hunt....usually the week of prim weapons.


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