# God is an Orderly God



## Ronnie T (Sep 18, 2009)

What an awesome and orderly GOD!! 

God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs. 

For example: 
-the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; 
-those of the canary in 14 days; 
-those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; 
-The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; 
-those of the mallard in 35 days; 
-The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. 
(Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!) 

The lives of each of you may be ordered by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, if you will only entrust Him with your life. If you try to regulate your own life, it will only be a mess and a failure. Only the One Who made the brain and the heart can successfully guide them to a profitable end. 

God's wisdom is seen in the making of an elephant.. The four legs of this great beast all bend forward in the same direction. No other quadruped is so made. God planned that this animal would have a huge body, too large to live on two legs. For this reason He gave it four fulcrums so that it can rise from the ground easily. 

The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs first. A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first. How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation! 

God's wisdom is revealed in His arrangement of sections and segments, as well as in the number of grains. 

-Each watermelon has an even number of stripes on the rind. 
-Each orange has an even number of segments. 
-Each ear of corn has an even number of rows. 
-Each stalk of wheat has an even number of grains. 
-Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even number and the next row an odd number. 

-The waves of the sea roll in on shore twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather. 

All grains are found in even numbers on the stalks, and the Lord specified thirty fold, sixty fold, and a hundredfold - all even numbers. 

God has caused the flowers to blossom at certain specified times during the day, so that Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said that if he had a conservatory containing the right kind of soil, moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers that were open and those that were closed! 

Thus the Lord in His wonderful grace can arrange the life that is entrusted to His care in such a way that it will carry out His purposes and plans, and will be fragrant with His presence. 

Only the God-planned safe life is successful. Only the life given over to the care of the Lord is fulfilled. 


WHAT AN AWESOME AND ORDERLY GOD


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## Lowjack (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm sure some in here will say " Oh that is just ramdom stuff"


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## post450 (Sep 18, 2009)

I learn something new here everyday.

Great post!


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## THREEJAYS (Sep 18, 2009)

RT that is an awesome post thanks too.


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## earl (Sep 18, 2009)

Many people believe in numerology and symbolism. Not all Christians.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 19, 2009)

earl said:


> Many people believe in numerology and symbolism. Not all Christians.



Yep but all should believe in the implications of Fractals.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

http://images.google.com/images?q=f...&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1

http://webecoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tree-leaf-fractals.jpg


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## earl (Sep 19, 2009)

I like that second link.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 19, 2009)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4yBvvGi_2A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4yBvvGi_2A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBJV56WUDng&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBJV56WUDng&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## ambush80 (Sep 19, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4yBvvGi_2A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4yBvvGi_2A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBJV56WUDng&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBJV56WUDng&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>




Monkeys are godless heathens.


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## Israel (Sep 19, 2009)

gordon 2 said:


> Yep but all should believe in the implications of Fractals.
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
> ...



Ha! Fractals...Mandlebrodt equations!

You make me laugh sometimes, bro.
The area in which I work requires the wearing of lead aprons as you may know. When It came time for me to order "my own" lead...there were many patterns and styles from which to choose...camo, doggie prints, sports motifs, etc.
I chose the one with fractals graphically printed. To many it just looks like an "ex hippies" choice of a tie dyed explosion of colors...but when folks say "oh, that's a cool tie dye"...or whatever, I invite them to take a closer look and explain a bit about fractals and how I see God's perpetual/infinitesimal order in them.  
I'll shoot you a pic sometime.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 19, 2009)

ambush80 said:


> Monkeys are godless heathens.




This explains very well indeed why eating apple is not in good taste. Apples although they fit a mit, don't conform to the human jaw or face.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 19, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I'm sure some in here will say " Oh that is just ramdom stuff"



Potato bugs?  Nothing random about that at all, Lowjack.  Yep.  By the way, roaches tend to be all over the place.  They're God's creatures too, ya know.

Ducks hatch in 28 days but mallards hatch in 35 days?  

Besides that inconsistency in this recitation of God's orderly works, I find it awfully convenient each bird hatches in exactly a certain number of days.  After looking into it a little, I find bluebirds lay one egg per day until the clutch is complete then it's a range of approximately 2 weeks.  That means the first egg of a clutch of 6 might take 20 days to hatch while the last egg may take 14 days.  This example is just one I was able to find readily and I would imagine there are plenty more like it as bird habits are concerned.  

Alligators hatch around 63 to 65 days from what I can tell.  Some snakes give birth to live young and some lay eggs.  Pretty sloppy work for an orderly deity, imo.  

Humans are in the womb for about 40 weeks but we all know that doesn't happen all the time.  Pretty wishful thinking by the original author of the forwarded e-mail from which Ronnie T copied all these cherry-picked observations, imo.


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## post450 (Sep 19, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> ...........................
> Besides that inconsistency in this recitation of God's orderly works, I find it awfully convenient each bird hatches in exactly a certain number of days.  After looking into it a little, I find bluebirds lay one egg per day until the clutch is complete then it's a range of approximately 2 weeks.  That means the first egg of a clutch of 6 might take 20 days to hatch while the last egg may take 14 days.  This example is just one I was able to find readily and I would imagine there are plenty more like it as bird habits are concerned.........




You obviously don't know much about hatching eggs, Ham, so I am guessing your family didn't raise chickens while you were growing up. 

The incubation period does not begin, until the female bird lays a certain number of eggs and goes into a brood cycle, so it really does matter if an egg was laid on day 1 or day 6, the incubation period is the same. The days listed by Ronnie are the number of required days at a specific temperature which is a result of the female's constant sitting on the eggs and turning them, not the number of days after the egg was laid. The female does not constantly sit on the nest prior to this brood cycle. We always used the term "sitting" hen, because all hen chickens will decide they want to hatch eggs after a certain cycle and will attempt to hatch as little as one egg, regardless of whether there has been a male present or not. A "sitting" hen will also hatch the eggs of turkeys, guinea fowl, pigeons, ducks, or anything with a similar sized egg. 

Convenient, yet true.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 20, 2009)

post450 said:


> You obviously don't know much about hatching eggs, Ham, so I am guessing your family didn't raise chickens while you were growing up.
> 
> The incubation period does not begin, until the female bird lays a certain number of eggs and goes into a brood cycle, so it really does matter if an egg was laid on day 1 or day 6, the incubation period is the same. The days listed by Ronnie are the number of required days at a specific temperature which is a result of the female's constant sitting on the eggs and turning them, not the number of days after the egg was laid. The female does not constantly sit on the nest prior to this brood cycle. We always used the term "sitting" hen, because all hen chickens will decide they want to hatch eggs after a certain cycle and will attempt to hatch as little as one egg, regardless of whether there has been a male present or not. A "sitting" hen will also hatch the eggs of turkeys, guinea fowl, pigeons, ducks, or anything with a similar sized egg.
> 
> Convenient, yet true.



Ronnie mentions that "a xyz egg hatches in x days".  It mentions nothing of incubation.  Great job of defining the parameters to fit your argument.  Stellar job of picking out just one of many pieces of evidence presented to sort of refute.   You'll need to do a lot better than this or admit defeat and say how God works in mysterious ways, etc.


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## pnome (Sep 24, 2009)

Argument from ignorance.

You have no idea why the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days.    Your mind is simply racing to that always convenient explanation of the unknown.  Do you have any evidence that the God of Abraham himself set the potato bug egg hatch timer to 7?  

Is there any way that we can test your hypothesis that God ordered egg hatching days be divisible by 7?


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 24, 2009)

pnome said:


> Argument from ignorance.
> 
> You have no idea why the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days.    Your mind is simply racing to that always convenient explanation of the unknown.  Do you have any evidence that the God of Abraham himself set the potato bug egg hatch timer to 7?
> 
> Is there any way that we can test your hypothesis that God ordered egg hatching days be divisible by 7?



I predict this post gets you on 2, perhaps 3 ignore lists today.


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## gtparts (Sep 24, 2009)

pnome said:


> Argument from ignorance.
> 
> You have no idea why the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days.    Your mind is simply racing to that always convenient explanation of the unknown.  Do you have any evidence that the God of Abraham himself set the potato bug egg hatch timer to 7?
> 
> Is there any way that we can test your hypothesis that God ordered egg hatching days be divisible by 7?



I can only assume that because you offered no alternative explanation of the phenomenon that you do not have one. It would also be useful to have data to support your hypothesis.....your test is controlled and repeatable. Isn't  it?

As for the potato bug, why would you expect anyone to repeatedly hatch the same egg to determine if it always hatches in 7 days? That is a test only God could repeat!


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## pnome (Sep 24, 2009)

gtparts said:


> I can only assume that because you offered no alternative explanation of the phenomenon that you do not have one. It would also be useful to have data to support your hypothesis.....your test is controlled and repeatable. Isn't  it?
> 
> As for the potato bug, why would you expect anyone to repeatedly hatch the same egg to determine if it always hatches in 7 days? That is a test only God could repeat!



I always welcome your responses gt.  

I do not know for certain, but I do have a hypothesis.  I've been thinking about this post off and on today.  But I hit on it as I was riding home on marta.  Ok here goes:

1 lunar month = 29.53059 days. Divide that by 4 and you get something rather close to 7 days. (7.3826475)  Which is where the whole idea of a "week" comes from.

So, I propose that the moon is what set those egg hatch timers. 

It is falsifiable.    If humans were to make contact with life on another planet which had no moon, and all their eggs hatched in intervals of 7, then my hypothesis has some clear issues.


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## gtparts (Sep 24, 2009)

pnome said:


> I always welcome your responses gt.
> 
> I do not know for certain, but I do have a hypothesis.  I've been thinking about this post off and on today.  But I hit on it as I was riding home on marta.  Ok here goes:
> 
> ...



 Calendar savvy, moon watching potato bugs!!! Hoo-da thunkit???


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## Ronnie T (Sep 24, 2009)

Man of man.
I post a neat little email that someone sent me concerning what appears to be the non-randomness of bugs and stuff and what do you know, here come the defenders of unbelief trying to prove that it's incorrect, we're incorrect, God doesn't exist, bugs don't exist, and we have a seven day week because of something to do with the moon.
I think you guys are doing some great research.
For me, it's kinda like when grownups are having a discussion and the kids keep running around making noise.
But before someone jumps in to inform me that you have as much right here as I do I want you to know that I am aware of that and I'm glad you're here.


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## Diogenes (Sep 24, 2009)

“What an awesome and orderly GOD!!”

Indeed.  The universe is quite well ordered, containing monstrous gamma ray bursts, deadly pulsars, galaxies that collide and cannibalize each other, gravitational fields and black holes that crush matter, exploding stars, and unimaginably huge fields of gasses that collapse and ignite.  

Closer to home, our Solar System contains rogue asteroids and comets that collide with planets, planets with eccentric orbits, a Sun that is getting steadily hotter, debris fields that are gravitationally captured, massive solar flares, invisible radiation, and even a moon that is slowly moving away from the Earth as the core of the planet burns steadily out and the gravitational field slowly weakens.  

Right here at home, we have a planetary surface that is over 2/3 water (in which we cannot survive), land masses covered with huge expanses of ice and desert (in which we cannot survive), and even in the few habitable zones we have snow to freeze you to death, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, droughts, lightning and landslides offering sudden death, we have viruses and bacteria to infect you, parasites to suck out your vital fluids, cancers that take over your body, insects that eat your crops, tsunamis that wash away your town, predatory animals that want to eat you, poisonous plants and reptiles to kill the unaware, sharks, uranium, vampire bats, sinkholes, japanese cars and Democrats. 

What an AWESOME and orderly God!!  

Oh, and also a 365 day year, which is neither an even number nor one that is divisible by seven, just in case you really buy into the numerological superstitions . . .


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## Ronnie T (Sep 24, 2009)

Yeah but what do you say about the ear of corn that always has an even number of rows.  Ha!


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## BeenHuntn (Sep 24, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> “What an awesome and orderly GOD!!”
> 
> Indeed.  The universe is quite well ordered, containing monstrous gamma ray bursts, deadly pulsars, galaxies that collide and cannibalize each other, gravitational fields and black holes that crush matter, exploding stars, and unimaginably huge fields of gasses that collapse and ignite.
> 
> ...



Glory to God, for creating everything just the way that Dio, just described it... except for the demoncrats... they are the "cousin" to mosquitos...


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 24, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Yeah but what do you say about the ear of corn that always has an even number of rows.  Ha!



I'd say you're ignoring a lot if that's what you want to cling to as faith in a deity.


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## BeenHuntn (Sep 25, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I'd say you're ignoring a lot if that's what you want to cling to as faith in a deity.



ham, i would say you are "ignoring a lot" when you have all of creation to look at and still deny that there is a Creator...


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## Ronnie T (Sep 25, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I'd say you're ignoring a lot if that's what you want to cling to as faith in a deity.



Ham, my faith in God has absolutely nothing to do with an ear of corn.
And my signature is a true today as it was the first day you saw it.
And you must have more important things to do than argue the points of the original post.


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## Diogenes (Sep 25, 2009)

A Special Note to Believer: You cannot KNOW that God does exist! You can wish, hope, or think, but you cannot KNOW!


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 25, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> And my signature is a true today as it was the first day you saw it.



About that....it's fine that you have that as your sig.  Really.  But do I know that there's not a god?  No.  Am I convinced that there is one?  No again.  So I don't assume there is one, nor do I invest any energy into following along.  Come on in, the water's fine.


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## Diogenes (Sep 25, 2009)

Indeed.  In my neighborhood none of the streets run One Way . . .


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## thedeacon (Sep 25, 2009)

You know faith is a wonderful thing, everyone has faith in something or someone. I am sorry that so many on here do not have faith in God. I couldn't survive without it.

I don't know why God chose to make the kernal's on an ear of corn even numbers, I don't know why he wants a bug to hatch in seven days.

I do know which came first, the chicken or the egg, the chicken came first because God didn't create any eggs.

I cannot explain faith to an unbeliever because it is unexplainable if it is true faith and that is what makes it so fantastic. 

A man ask me one time, if you have so much faith in God why do I have so much more than you? I told him that there was no way he could have more than me because I had the promise of eternity with God.

I think a person has to see faith work before he can really understand it. I think a person has to test faith before he can really appreciate what it really does. I think that a person has to open his heart to the true and living God and pray for faith before he can feel the strength of God.

Recently (the past few weeks) I was very sick, another clogged artery and a blood clot in a differant artery. The Dr. found it just in time. 

During this time I have been begging for more faith in God and guess what, it came. Faith gives you strength where you are the weakest. Faith gives you humility when you are proud.

I feel sick in my heart when I hear or read about people scoffing God. It breaks my heart and I am sure that God feels the pain  much more than I do.

You unbelievers can come back and be sarcastic about my faith but I just want to ask one question. 

WHAT IF I AM RIGHT? WHAT IF THERE IS A GOD? 

Wouldn't you like to investigate the facts a little closer.

The chances of the world being formed with perfection the way it is just by chance is like saying you could blow up a ford escort and when it hit the ground there would be 1000 timex watches there ticking and taking a licking.

I don't have all the answers but I do know that without faith in the true and living God your life is not complete no matter what you say. As a matter of fact maybe you are not so sure about what you believe or you would not evem be on here.

People who talk the loudest are usually people just trying to justify themseves but don't know how.

I have a friend that is a "TRUE" atheist and I have told him many times that I pray for him. He thanks me for my love and tells me that he doesn't mind and he is very glad that I am happy and content with what I have. He says he chooses not to try to change anyone's mind about their God because they are not harming him. I don't see much of that kindness here.

So, I just wonder are you looking for something, Praise God I hope so and I pray you find it.

I promised myself that I would not  comment on another thread like this but I did, I am just glad I didn't promise God.

The day will come when there will be no unbelievers. Count on it.

Thats all I got to say about that.


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## BeenHuntn (Sep 25, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Indeed.  In my neighborhood none of the streets run One Way . . .



yall may want to go thru this site thoroughly.... i have seen their shows on TV and i just sit there and say "WOW"!

Creation is amazing...  check it our Dio, ham, earl, ect...

http://www.creationevidence.org/

God bless you guys... i believe that you are here for a reason...  to find Jesus...  i pray that yall find Him....


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## Diogenes (Sep 25, 2009)

“WHAT IF I AM RIGHT? WHAT IF THERE IS A GOD?”

If you have to ask ‘What if?’ then that rather demonstrates a reasonable doubt to this juror . . .


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 25, 2009)

"The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs first. A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first. How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation!"

Can someone explain the significance of this to me? Makes little sense. 
Of all the things I could point to, this would be the very last...


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## thedeacon (Sep 25, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> “WHAT IF I AM RIGHT? WHAT IF THERE IS A GOD?”
> 
> If you have to ask ‘What if?’ then that rather demonstrates a reasonable doubt to this juror . . .



If there is only doubt then maybe there is a chance for you after all. and with God there is no jury, he is judge, jury, prosecuter and he passes out the sentences.

But the good thing is he is also the defense and the defense influences mercy from the judge.


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## Diogenes (Sep 25, 2009)

“ . . . with God there is no jury, he is judge, jury, prosecuter and he passes out the sentences.”

Right.  Will he validate my parking pass too?  I hate having to pay for stuff I didn’t do . . . You asked, “What if (you) are right?”   Asked.   Question mark.  What if.  Where does an ‘IF’ figure into certainty?  Are you right?  Yes or no?  Not ‘IF.’ 

Be certain, please, and prove that certainty beyond a reasonable doubt, because all of this so-called certainty placed in the form of dubious and doubtful statements, cautionary distancing from facts, references to ancient writings, threats of vague retributions, and high-minded heavy handed preaching is beginning to wear folks thin. 

We have some practical problems with this sort of Pascal’s Wager sort of argument, in that it presupposes a basis of belief.  In logic this is called a category error.  In other words, the math is a bit misleading.  Imagine a game that gives you a 99% chance of winning $100, and a 1% chance of winning $50,000.  So, to follow this, the expected value of your winnings (belief) would be (.99 x 100) + (.01 x 50,000) = 599.  Sounds like you can’t lose, doesn’t it?  Might as well play, since you will certainly win . . . 

Well . . . Um?   So you multiply the huge possible payoff you put on heavenly bliss by your certainty?  Or do you multiply it by the larger probability?  Seems to me that the promise of the payoff is undemonstrated, and hugely disproportionate to the wager that needs be made.  And can you folks even agree amongst yourselves on what ‘God is,’ or what ‘God promises’ long enough to make wagers like that?  Again, mathematically, any finite number divided by infinity yields a result that is so vanishingly small as to be zero for all practical matters.  So your faith is placed entirely on infinity as your chosen variable?

Wow.  Let us know how that works out, huh?


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 25, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Again, mathematically, any finite number divided by infinity yields a result that is so vanishingly small as to be zero for all practical matters.  So your faith is placed entirely on infinity as your chosen variable?
> 
> Wow.  Let us know how that works out, huh?



Kinda like the odds that the universe was formed enabling life on this planet. 

No different than science placing their belief in the infinite existence of the universe and that eventually, something would be created.


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## gtparts (Sep 25, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> “What an awesome and orderly GOD!!”
> 
> Indeed.  The universe is quite well ordered, containing monstrous gamma ray bursts, deadly pulsars, galaxies that collide and cannibalize each other, gravitational fields and black holes that crush matter, exploding stars, and unimaginably huge fields of gasses that collapse and ignite.
> 
> ...





BeenHuntn said:


> Glory to God, for creating everything just the way that Dio, just described it... except for the demoncrats... they are the "cousin" to mosquitos...



Actually, some of what Dio has typed is the direct result of living in a fallen world. We experience the consequences of our disobedience.


Yeah..yeah!!

The Bible tells me so.


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

gtparts said:


> Calendar savvy, moon watching potato bugs!!! Hoo-da thunkit???



Many animals time their reproductive cycles by the moon.  Humans certainly do.  Ask any woman.


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Man of man.
> I post a neat little email that someone sent me concerning what appears to be the non-randomness of bugs and stuff and what do you know, here come the defenders of unbelief trying to prove that it's incorrect, we're incorrect, God doesn't exist, bugs don't exist, and we have a seven day week because of something to do with the moon.
> I think you guys are doing some great research.
> For me, it's kinda like when grownups are having a discussion and the kids keep running around making noise.
> But before someone jumps in to inform me that you have as much right here as I do I want you to know that I am aware of that and I'm glad you're here.



You posted this email as an argument for the existence of God.  I was simply giving my rebuttal.  

When you posted this, did you think maybe you wouldn't get any responses from "the defenders of unbelief"?


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

BeenHuntn said:


> yall may want to go thru this site thoroughly.... i have seen their shows on TV and i just sit there and say "WOW"!
> 
> Creation is amazing...  check it our Dio, ham, earl, ect...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the blessing.

The problem with this website, and really the entire creationist movement, is one of method.

Creationists start with a conclusion, and then go try to find evidence to support that conclusion.   This is not science.  This is propaganda research.

In science, the conclusion comes at the end.  Once you've evaluated all of the evidence.

You must be open to the possibility that your hypothesis is wrong.  That hypothesis must be falsifiable in some way.

What would prove creationism wrong?  What evidence, or set of circumstances would falsify it?


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

ddd-shooter said:


> Kinda like the odds that the universe was formed enabling life on this planet.



Anthropic Principle eh?

It's a tautology.  You are basically saying "If things had been different, they would have been different."



> No different than science placing their belief in the infinite existence of the universe and that eventually, something would be created.



Who believes that?  I think most are caught up trying to decide if the universe will end with a big crunch or long fade out.  Few argue that the universe is going to exist for eternity. 

I certainly don't.  No, our universe is finite.  However, since time is also part of our universe, it too is finite.  So, there is no such thing as eternity.  There is no "before" our universe and there will be no "after."  For those terms to have any meaning, you have to have time, and without our universe you don't have it.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 25, 2009)

pnome said:


> You posted this email as an argument for the existence of God.  I was simply giving my rebuttal.
> 
> When you posted this, did you think maybe you wouldn't get any responses from "the defenders of unbelief"?



Actually, you unbelievers didn't cross my mind.  I was hoping it would slide right by you.
Now I think I'll go over to the hunting forum and tell them I think they're crazy for killing animals.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 25, 2009)

pnome said:


> Thanks for the blessing.
> 
> The problem with this website, and really the entire creationist movement, is one of method.
> 
> ...



You guys are really too too much.


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Now I think I'll go over to the hunting forum and tell them I think they're crazy for killing animals.



I bet you'll get quite a fill of rebuttals to that.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 25, 2009)

pnome said:


> Anthropic Principle eh?
> 
> It's a tautology.  You are basically saying "If things had been different, they would have been different."
> 
> ...



And how do you know any of the above is true?


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 25, 2009)

pnome said:


> I certainly don't.  No, our universe is finite.  However, since time is also part of our universe, it too is finite.  So, there is no such thing as eternity.  There is no "before" our universe and there will be no "after."  For those terms to have any meaning, you have to have time, and without our universe you don't have it.



Right in this area - space/time, infinity, the universe, etc - is where my brain no longer computes.  I'm sure that's the case for a lot of people; at least I hope it is.  It would be easy enough to say "God moves in mysterious ways" or some such, but I continue to refrain.


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## pnome (Sep 25, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> And how do you know any of the above is true?



"Know" is a strong word.  I would say that I am currently convinced.  

We could get into a large physics debate from here.  But suffice it to say I'm in the finite universe camp.


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## christianhunter (Sep 25, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Man of man.
> I post a neat little email that someone sent me concerning what appears to be the non-randomness of bugs and stuff and what do you know, here come the defenders of unbelief trying to prove that it's incorrect, we're incorrect, God doesn't exist, bugs don't exist, and we have a seven day week because of something to do with the moon.
> I think you guys are doing some great research.
> For me, it's kinda like when grownups are having a discussion and the kids keep running around making noise.
> But before someone jumps in to inform me that you have as much right here as I do I want you to know that I am aware of that and I'm glad you're here.



Brother what a great post,I enjoyed it,Thank you.Give him a break though,he only proved the order of GOD.GOD set the days by the moon.During Creation,the Evening and the Morning was always the start of the day.THE LORD ordered creation by a lunar calendar,not solar as man.The poster only validified your Thread.


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## christianhunter (Sep 25, 2009)

pnome said:


> Anthropic Principle eh?
> 
> It's a tautology.  You are basically saying "If things had been different, they would have been different."
> 
> ...



That is exactly like the question our teacher asked us in elementary School."If a tree falls in the forest,and no one is there to hear it,does it make a noise?"I simply cannot believe it.Tick-tock,tick-tock


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 25, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> Give him a break though,_he only proved the order of GOD_.



Not even close.  At best he suggested it, which is a long way from proving.


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