# State Monitoring Shooters- "over the top"



## Meat Hunter (Jul 28, 2012)

Is it just me or does the DNR range staff at Charlie Elliot rifle range act like "pseudo gestapo" agents? Not only do you have to provide your WMA stamp and identification, but you have to sign in, time and date and several other curious questions, i.e. who you are, date of birth, why you are shooting, what you are shooting, address, county of residence, time and date. I inquired why they were doing this and was told that they are conducting a survey? What survey? I personally find this as an over stepping of my privacy fringing on violating my constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I have no problem with showing my WMA stamp or even i.d, Upon Request, or following the rules etc. but the questions and the demeanor taken by the staff therein is in my opinion intimidating and a little over the top. As soon as you fill out their required form they snatch it up an walk it into the range house.  Whats next? our serial numbers on our guns, or maybe video recording us shooting, or maybe even rendering a ballistic sample of each weapon fired? I know I might be going on a rant here but I can remember not too long ago when when all you had to do to shoot at a range was to show up. Now I get the DNR wants to make sure that every "yay-hoo" that buys a gun does not pop in at the range and act like an idiot, but this monitoring of lawful citizens exercising a constitutionally given right is just that, monitoring ! The DNR is a government entity charged to enforce state and game laws, why should weapons lawfully obtained and possessed responsibly at a public rifle range by a United States citizen be regulated in this fashion? Who and why are they keeping this information?


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## C.Killmaster (Jul 30, 2012)

Meat Hunter said:


> Is it just me or does the DNR range staff at Charlie Elliot rifle range act like "pseudo gestapo" agents? Not only do you have to provide your WMA stamp and identification, but you have to sign in, time and date and several other curious questions, i.e. who you are, date of birth, why you are shooting, what you are shooting, address, county of residence, time and date. I inquired why they were doing this and was told that they are conducting a survey? What survey? I personally find this as an over stepping of my privacy fringing on violating my constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I have no problem with showing my WMA stamp or even i.d, Upon Request, or following the rules etc. but the questions and the demeanor taken by the staff therein is in my opinion intimidating and a little over the top. As soon as you fill out their required form they snatch it up an walk it into the range house.  Whats next? our serial numbers on our guns, or maybe video recording us shooting, or maybe even rendering a ballistic sample of each weapon fired? I know I might be going on a rant here but I can remember not too long ago when when all you had to do to shoot at a range was to show up. Now I get the DNR wants to make sure that every "yay-hoo" that buys a gun does not pop in at the range and act like an idiot, but this monitoring of lawful citizens exercising a constitutionally given right is just that, monitoring ! The DNR is a government entity charged to enforce state and game laws, why should weapons lawfully obtained and possessed responsibly at a public rifle range by a United States citizen be regulated in this fashion? Who and why are they keeping this information?



The reason you are asked to show your WMA license is because the Georgia Outdoor Recreation Pass was implemented on all of Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center as of January 1st.  Since you have a WMA license, you have fulfilled this requirement.  People that shoot at the range that don't hunt WMAs now have to pay to use the area.  The information requested on the sign-in sheets is used to obtain shooting sports grants and fund better facilities.  The new shotgun range is a direct result of those grants.  We only need to collect the date-of-birth for a few months for another grant, that portion of the sign-in sheets will be discontinued soon.  The information collected on weapon type helps us determine which weapons are more popular.  This combined with what city you live in helps us determine where and what type of range facilities are most needed if we construct a new range.

The majority of funding for DNR-WRD comes from hunting license sales and the Pittman-Robertson Act, an excise tax levied at the manufacturers level on firearms and ammunition.  Thus there is a vested interest in the continuation and promotion of shooting sports.

If you prefer not to provide the information requested on the sign-in sheet, you are not required to do so.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jul 30, 2012)

C.Killmaster said:


> The reason you are asked to show your WMA license is because the Georgia Outdoor Recreation Pass was implemented on all of Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center as of January 1st.  Since you have a WMA license, you have fulfilled this requirement.  People that shoot at the range that don't hunt WMAs now have to pay to use the area.  The information requested on the sign-in sheets is used to obtain shooting sports grants and fund better facilities.  The new shotgun range is a direct result of those grants.  We only need to collect the date-of-birth for a few months for another grant, that portion of the sign-in sheets will be discontinued soon.  The information collected on weapon type helps us determine which weapons are more popular.  This combined with what city you live in helps us determine where and what type of range facilities are most needed if we construct a new range.
> 
> The majority of funding for DNR-WRD comes from hunting license sales and the Pittman-Robertson Act, an excise tax levied at the manufacturers level on firearms and ammunition.  Thus there is a vested interest in the continuation and promotion of shooting sports.
> 
> If you prefer not to provide the information requested on the sign-in sheet, you are not required to do so.



Maybe a 1 paragraph explanation at each range affected
and need for survey info would help ease any concerns toward privacy issues...


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## C.Killmaster (Jul 30, 2012)

7Mag Hunter said:


> Maybe a 1 paragraph explanation at each range affected
> and need for survey info would help ease any concerns toward privacy issues...



Maybe, but we can't even get most people to read the safety rules.  If they read anything, I'd rather it be the rules.  The range officers can answer these kinds of questions.


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## IIICrkRepr (Jul 30, 2012)

Meat Hunter said:


> As soon as you fill out their required form they snatch it up an walk it into the range house.



It almost sounds like the employees like collecting the info about as much as you like giving it. I am sure this is just more piece of red tape they have to put up with. I know I would feel a lot better about giving the info if I knew exactly what it is being used for.


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## ABBYS DAD (Jul 30, 2012)

go somewhere else to shoot?? (on another note) i've been to Johns Mountain WMA range and i would much rather have this in place with some enforcement around than to carry around a spanish dictionary to yell verbal commands to seize fire or please don't point that pistole at me.....


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## Showman (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm sure there are a bunch of us that appreciate the ranges that have been set up on some of the WMA's, I certainly being one of them.  Is it possible to get a trap/skeet setup going on these ranges also?  I know that is asking a lot but going to a private course to shoot Clay Pigeons and improve wing-shooting skills is getting a bit ridiculous and cost prohibitive (especially for us retired folk on a fixed income).


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## C.Killmaster (Jul 31, 2012)

Showman said:


> I'm sure there are a bunch of us that appreciate the ranges that have been set up on some of the WMA's, I certainly being one of them.  Is it possible to get a trap/skeet setup going on these ranges also?  I know that is asking a lot but going to a private course to shoot Clay Pigeons and improve wing-shooting skills is getting a bit ridiculous and cost prohibitive (especially for us retired folk on a fixed income).



You're in luck!  On May 8th we opened the first state-managed Trap/Skeet and Sporting Clays Range at Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center.

http://www.georgiawildlife.org/node/3012


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## Paymaster (Jul 31, 2012)

C.Killmaster said:


> You're in luck!  On May 8th we opened the first state-managed Trap/Skeet and Sporting Clays Range at Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center.
> 
> http://www.georgiawildlife.org/node/3012



Wow! That is awesome.


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## Showman (Jul 31, 2012)

Awesome, yes.  But too far to go from the Albany area just to shoot a few rounds of skeet or trap.  Any plans on putting something like that in SW Georgia?


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jul 31, 2012)

C.Killmaster said:


> Maybe, but we can't even get most people to read the safety rules.  If they read anything, I'd rather it be the rules.  The range officers can answer these kinds of questions.



Point well taken !!!

Thanks for your hard work !!!


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## C.Killmaster (Jul 31, 2012)

Showman said:


> Awesome, yes.  But too far to go from the Albany area just to shoot a few rounds of skeet or trap.  Any plans on putting something like that in SW Georgia?



Not at this point, but we'll see how this one goes and that may open the door for future projects.


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## Showman (Aug 1, 2012)

Ten Dash Four!


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## robert carter (Aug 1, 2012)

I recently started shooting a pistol with my Wife. We go to the wma ranges and the Wardens there have been respectful and helpful and also checked our pass. Its their job and I appreciate what they do.Thanks,RC.


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## Meat Hunter (Aug 1, 2012)

The sign at the range states "all shooters must sign in at the range house" Sounds mandatory to a lay person like myself. I appreciate the info though, i'll let them them know next time I'm down there that i'd prefer not to sign in. I just don't understand why the fifty questions, seems intrusive to me? I mean not to piggy back on some recent national issues like the quagmire of fast and furious and some other recent rumblings for gun control. I'm not so inclined to believe everything a government official tells me, not that they would be less than truthful or anything.


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## Showman (Aug 2, 2012)

Just signing in to anything gives the money handlers an idea if the money they give out to agency's is being spent well and wisely.  If no one signs in, do you think that improvements/upgrades/new facilities would be forthcoming to that area?  No.  But a line has to be drawn somewhere on what info can and can not be asked for.  If you bought your gun(s) at a dealer, the paperwork was done, the man already knows the who and where you are and what gun(s) you have.  But asking personal questions about a persons life EVERY TIME someone goes to a WMA, all the time at every registration is beyond a survey.  Doing it once should be enough and survey for only a specific time range. Use of the range or WMA can be had by just looking at the sign in sheet, all the other info need not be there.  People are beginning to feel like characters in Orwell's "1984" and Big Brother is truly watching.


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## C.Killmaster (Aug 2, 2012)

Showman said:


> Just signing in to anything gives the money handlers an idea if the money they give out to agency's is being spent well and wisely.  If no one signs in, do you think that improvements/upgrades/new facilities would be forthcoming to that area?  No.  But a line has to be drawn somewhere on what info can and can not be asked for.  If you bought your gun(s) at a dealer, the paperwork was done, the man already knows the who and where you are and what gun(s) you have.  But asking personal questions about a persons life EVERY TIME someone goes to a WMA, all the time at every registration is beyond a survey.  Doing it once should be enough and survey for only a specific time range. Use of the range or WMA can be had by just looking at the sign in sheet, all the other info need not be there.  People are beginning to feel like characters in Orwell's "1984" and Big Brother is truly watching.



That's precisely why you can sign-in, but leave the rest of the survey blank.  You can't expect the range officers to remember each person that filled out the survey.


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