# Def?



## feathersnantlers (Sep 16, 2015)

I was on a TV set the other day and all the diesels idle all day long. I saw a driver putting in Blue Def. He said they have to have it sitting and idling all day. 

What is DEF?


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## joey1919 (Sep 16, 2015)

Diesel exhaust fluid. It's required on all new diesels, to meet emissions standards


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## T-N-T (Sep 16, 2015)

DEF is part of the reason used diesels are getting more desirable.

Used to have DPF (diesel particulate filter )  in the exhaust systems to help with emissions. 
But people like me remove them to get about 4 or 5 more MPHs.  So the Gov figured a new way to stick it to you.


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## feathersnantlers (Sep 16, 2015)

Do small engine diesels like VW TDI's require Def?


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## T.P. (Sep 19, 2015)

Buy def at truck stop fuel pumps. It's 1/3 the price compared to inside the store.


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## The Horned Toad (Sep 19, 2015)

feathersnantlers said:


> Do small engine diesels like VW TDI's require Def?



If it's not on the cars yet it's coming real soon.    You can't buy a new tractor now that doesn't require DEF.   The whole DEF requirement makes me angry.


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## T-N-T (Sep 19, 2015)

The Horned Toad said:


> If it's not on the cars yet it's coming real soon.    You can't buy a new tractor now that doesn't require DEF.   The whole DEF requirement makes me angry.



Tractors?  Really? 
Thanks US Gov.


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## mattech (Sep 20, 2015)

TopherAndTick said:


> Tractors?  Really?
> Thanks US Gov.



I think he meant tractor trailer, but I may be wrong. 


He's in the biz, so probably just slang talk. Lol


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## The Horned Toad (Sep 20, 2015)

mattech said:


> I think he meant tractor trailer, but I may be wrong.
> 
> 
> He's in the biz, so probably just slang talk. Lol



Even though I am in trucking I meant farm tractors like Kubota and john deere.


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## bronco611 (Sep 20, 2015)

Wait till you see the latest goo roo congressman brain storm coming down the pipes about the new ac Freon systems for passenger vehicles AGAIN!!!! They never ceases to amaze me how stupid they really are, oh I forgot we keep electing these idiots and putting them in office I guess we must be a little stupider than them? Is stupider a real word?


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 20, 2015)

bronco611 said:


> Wait till you see the latest goo roo congressman brain storm coming down the pipes about the new ac Freon systems for passenger vehicles AGAIN!!!! They never ceases to amaze me how stupid they really are, oh I forgot we keep electing these idiots and putting them in office I guess we must be a little stupider than them? Is stupider a real word?



Yep, R134 is too cheap for Dupont and Co. to make the millions they need to contribute to the politians, so we will give them the money by buying the newest "clean" refrigerant the EPA has proclaimed good for the enviorment.


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## John Cooper (Sep 20, 2015)

DEF is now required on all new diesel on and off road engines. Even diesel lawn mowers have to use it.


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## mattech (Sep 20, 2015)

The Horned Toad said:


> Even though I am in trucking I meant farm tractors like Kubota and john deere.



Man, that is total BC.


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## T-N-T (Sep 20, 2015)

John Cooper said:


> DEF is now required on all new diesel on and off road engines. Even diesel lawn mowers have to use it.



That is uncalled for.


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## Rivershot (Sep 21, 2015)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Yep, R134 is too cheap for Dupont and Co. to make the millions they need to contribute to the politians, so we will give them the money by buying the newest "clean" refrigerant the EPA has proclaimed good for the enviorment.



 the new stuff is far from cheap 134 is about $5 a pound, 1234yf is $120-150 a pound


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## bulldawgborn (Jun 3, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> That is uncalled for.



Massey Ferguson still makes some tractors that don't require DEF and are emissions compliant.


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## Robert28 (Jun 3, 2016)

I have a brand new Kubota L2501 tractor that doesn't require DEF or a DPF. It is under 25hp so it doesn't need all that extra junk to pass teir 4 emissions.


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## Flaustin1 (Jun 6, 2016)

Will farm tractors and mowers run without the DEF?


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## bulldawgborn (Jun 7, 2016)

Flaustin1 said:


> Will farm tractors and mowers run without the DEF?



Are you asking what would happen if you don't put DEF in a tractor that requires it?


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## Flaustin1 (Jun 22, 2016)

bulldawgborn said:


> Are you asking what would happen if you don't put DEF in a tractor that requires it?



Yep


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## Robert28 (Jun 23, 2016)

Flaustin1 said:


> Yep



They'll go into a "limp mode" eventually and then your tractor will shut down. Then you get to call the dealer to bring out his laptop to hook into your computer to "unlock" it and that's $200 minimum.


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## bulldawgborn (Jun 23, 2016)

That's it.  I guess I should have went ahead and answered on the assumption.


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## GoldDot40 (Jun 23, 2016)

The person (or persons) who came up with the whole DPF (diesel particulate filtration) system that requires DEF needs to be sent to the firing squad. It's the absolute stupidest apparatus ever put on a vehicle.

My 2012 Volvo that I drive at work has been in the shop of a whole month due to the DPF system. They've replaced every single component involved and it still goes into 'derate' mode...which means it is limited to <5mph. And there's 3 other trucks...3 different manufacturers...with the exact same issues.


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## T-N-T (Jun 23, 2016)

Bass, I searched a long time for Pre-DEF truck.
Got a 2007 cummins with 81,000 miles less than a year ago.  I then got the DPF deleted and reprogramed.
I may never sell it, as I only have 90,000 miles on it now.

New diesels are getting stupid.


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## Flaustin1 (Jun 23, 2016)

Robert28 said:


> They'll go into a "limp mode" eventually and then your tractor will shut down. Then you get to call the dealer to bring out his laptop to hook into your computer to "unlock" it and that's $200 minimum.



Wow, even a dang lawn tractor?  Somebody needs a good butt whippin.


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## GoldDot40 (Jun 24, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> Bass, I searched a long time for Pre-DEF truck.
> Got a 2007 cummins with 81,000 miles less than a year ago.  I then got the DPF deleted and reprogramed.
> I may never sell it, as I only have 90,000 miles on it now.
> 
> New diesels are getting stupid.


Every one of the owner-operator outfits that do the same thing I do all have pre-DPF trucks...and you never see them riding in a substitute truck. Mine is a company truck, so I'm at the mercy of whatever they want.


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## Robert28 (Jun 24, 2016)

Flaustin1 said:


> Wow, even a dang lawn tractor?  Somebody needs a good butt whippin.



If it's above 25hp you get to enjoy the headaches of DPF, not sure if they're using def yet or not. With Europe considering going to tier 5, ALL diesels will have both def and dpf on them no matter the horsepower. But hey at least the liberals will be happy.


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## Greene728 (Jul 2, 2016)

Wow. I'm surprised some of y'all don't know any more than you do about DEF fluid. It's not a bad thing at all. In fact, with the DEF systems,  these trucks now are being tuned better than ever and not nearly as dependant on the EGR while getting excellent MPG and producing mor HP and torque than ever before. I'd take a DEF equipped truck over a non def equipped with the SCR and DPF any day. Cleaner, more power, better MPG etc. all day. Now the old diesels with nothing but a turbo (e.g 7.3 powerstroke, 5.9 cummins) are and always will be the best! But fact is those days are gone. But, DEF isn't a bad thing.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 2, 2016)

If you buy DEF by the drum, it isn't too bad... about 150 a 55 gallon drum


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## badger (Jul 3, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> If you buy DEF by the drum, it isn't too bad... about 150 a 55 gallon drum



Wouldn't make sense for the average single user to buy in bulk. It would degrade long before it was used up. I check mine with a refractometer before I add it to ensure it's good. Have bought DEF before that wasn't.


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## GoldDot40 (Jul 4, 2016)

Greene728 said:


> Wow. I'm surprised some of y'all don't know any more than you do about DEF fluid. It's not a bad thing at all.



The last driver that towed our truck said that DEF systems are the single best thing that's happened for the towing business in the last 10 years.


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## Lilly001 (Jul 4, 2016)

I have a JD tractor that has an alternative method of reducing particulates. It's a filter that is recharged as you use it. It's not supposed to need service until 2000 hours.
At least thats what was explained to me. No DEF tank. It's a 2012 tier 4 compliant. 
But I'm not up on that stuff. Just what I was told by the dealer.


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## Greene728 (Jul 13, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> The last driver that towed our truck said that DEF systems are the single best thing that's happened for the towing business in the last 10 years.



I would disagree with him and say the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke would win that prize.


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## mmcneil (Jul 14, 2016)

I've thought about getting a new diesel, but dang what they cost.  Then you drop another $4-5000 stripping and replacing emission system, then retuning computer to make the truck run and add some after market goodies.  Then with my luck Al Gore would catch me with the truck and the EPA would lock me away for 20 years.  Think I will just keep what I got...


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## T-N-T (Jul 15, 2016)

mmcneil said:


> I've thought about getting a new diesel, but dang what they cost.  Then you drop another $4-5000 stripping and replacing emission system, then retuning computer to make the truck run and add some after market goodies.  Then with my luck Al Gore would catch me with the truck and the EPA would lock me away for 20 years.  Think I will just keep what I got...



That's why I searched for months for my 2007 cummins pickup.  Took a while to get a good one with low miles.  But I have a truck that will go a long time for less than half of new


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## Ajohnson0587 (Jul 26, 2016)

I'm a GM diesel mechanic and trust me, the DEF emissions system is the worst idea ever. Between customers "forgetting to top it off" and the heater or level sensors in the tank going bad, it's just not worth the hassle. I was going to buy a 2010 and below diesel but they are hard to come by and are holding their value very very well. Our dealer took in an 04 Ram 3500 with the Cummings 5.9 & 6 speed manual NV4500 transmission and 103k miles, I bought it before the customer finished the paper work on his new truck lol. The only thing the truck needed was a A/C compressor (Making a little noise), this truck is Pre DPF and Pre DEF which is what I wanted! 

Long story short DEF sucks, buy an older Diesel before 2010.


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## T-N-T (Jul 26, 2016)

Dpf delete programmers are hard to get now.
Govmt.made that happen.
They are several hundred dollars IF you can get the one you need.

RaceMe makes one.  I don't know of others, but I'm sure they are out there.
But the RaceMe is what I have, and it's like $800+ most places


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## lbzdually (Jul 27, 2016)

I have a 2006 Duramax LBZ.  Last year before DPF's.  One of the last trucks you can truly modify and not get railed by the EPA.  I've been trying to sell it to pay off some medical bills, but nobody wants to give anything for it.  They're like KBB is $15k, and I tell them if you can find one for that price buy it, cause you're not getting mine for that. I'll keep it, because it still gets 20 mpg on the Interstate and 13 mpg pulling a 20ft GN trailer with a JD 955 and Arctic Cat Prowler.  To get a new truck like mine it will cost you 55k at least.


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## T-N-T (Jul 28, 2016)

kbb and used diesels are worlds apart these days.


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## lbzdually (Jul 28, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> kbb and used diesels are worlds apart these days.



Tru dat.  NADA is closer, but still not there.  You can not find a 2006 3500 crew cab LT3 LBZ Duramax for under for under $20k with under 200k, yet everyone thinks they have leverage to beat you down.


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## T-N-T (Aug 2, 2016)

Saw a 2006 4 door duramax 4x4 with 130k (if I remember right) for 26 grand this weekend.


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## lbzdually (Aug 2, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> Saw a 2006 4 door duramax 4x4 with 130k (if I remember right) for 26 grand this weekend.



My dad has one just like mine, crew cab 4wd dually LT3 in charcoal metallic, every option except a sunroof with only 56k miles and he's about to sell it.  He is going to price it at $35k or so and hopefully get it.


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## T-N-T (Aug 3, 2016)

56 thousand miles??? He should just keep it unless he is going gas.  And even then, I would be hard pressed to sell it.
I got my truck a year ago, 2007 with 81k on it.  I just turned 91k.  
So at 10 or 11 thousand miles a year, I should be good for 15 years.  Not that I will keep it That long.  But I'll keep it a while.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 3, 2016)

DEF would not be as bad if I could find it in my area at the pump. Some places have it this way, but nowhere in my town


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## GoldDot40 (Aug 3, 2016)

1gr8bldr said:


> DEF would not be as bad if I could find it in my area at the pump. Some places have it this way, but nowhere in my town



There's a lot of high volume truck stops that still don't have it on tap. They'll sell you a 2.5gal jug for $22.99 though.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 4, 2016)

Bassquatch said:


> There's a lot of high volume truck stops that still don't have it on tap. They'll sell you a 2.5gal jug for $22.99 though.


Mercy, that's high, I thought $15 was high from Advance Auto. In my area, I have found Walmart to be cheaper, way cheaper than anywhere else


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## lbzdually (Aug 5, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> 56 thousand miles??? He should just keep it unless he is going gas.  And even then, I would be hard pressed to sell it.
> I got my truck a year ago, 2007 with 81k on it.  I just turned 91k.
> So at 10 or 11 thousand miles a year, I should be good for 15 years.  Not that I will keep it That long.  But I'll keep it a while.



He's going to get a higher mileage 2500 with Duramax and a Colorado to daily drive.  He doesn't tow anything and mostly only uses the truck to drive to Nashville to the VA.  He's put most of the miles on his truck in the last 2 years as it only had 29k 2 years ago.  He's got a custom made 8 ft flatbed on it, so the factory bed is literally brand new sitting on a trailer.


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