# Cougar Shooting



## gunnurse

I just read the lead story on the Forum's front page regarding the shooting of the Florida strain cougar. Am I missing some details on this story? 

First of all, is there a season in Georgia for mountain lion (cougar, panther, puma, etc.)? Was this a legal species to be taken with a big game stamp if it wasn't an endangered species (unknown to the hunter.) The way that this article reads, it looked like "Hey lookey... a big cat- I think I'll just shoot it." 

These articles and incidents will no doubt put the hunters- and ultimately gun owners- in a terrible light. I'll await the facts on this case before I comment further. If it was just a case that the cat was an endangered species and the hunter didn't know, too bad for the cat. It's not like the hunter could do genetic testing before taking the shot. Let me know what the facts are.


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## Mako22

Here is a fact, if I'm in my stand with a 400 yard walk back to the truck and a panther walks by my tree I'm gonna 

Then I'm gonna dig a nice hole in the ground and keep my mouth shut.


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## turtlebug

Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning. 


I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.


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## WTM45

Federal law protects the Florida panther, regardless of state lines.

I'd hate to be in this hunter's boots right now.


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## redneckcamo

gunnurse said:


> I just read the lead story on the Forum's front page regarding the shooting of the Florida strain cougar. Am I missing some details on this story?
> 
> First of all, is there a season in Georgia for mountain lion (cougar, panther, puma, etc.)? Was this a legal species to be taken with a big game stamp if it wasn't an endangered species (unknown to the hunter.) The way that this article reads, it looked like "Hey lookey... a big cat- I think I'll just shoot it."
> 
> These articles and incidents will no doubt put the hunters- and ultimately gun owners- in a terrible light. I'll await the facts on this case before I comment further. If it was just a case that the cat was an endangered species and the hunter didn't know, too bad for the cat. It's not like the hunter could do genetic testing before taking the shot. Let me know what the facts are.



all hoopla 

but if an when .....keepin the trap shut is the best idea ......that means none of this --->


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## LIB MR ducks

*Cougar is game animal*



turtlebug said:


> Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning.
> 
> 
> I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.



Sorry T-Bug but you are wrong on this one. GA law does list the Cougar as a game animal therefore it is protected unless there is  a season set by DNR. Also the Florida panther is an endangered species so it is also a federal violation to kill one. 

From OCGA 27-1-2:

_(34) "Game animals" means the following animals: bear, bobcat, deer, fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, sea turtles and their eggs, squirrel, cougar (Felis concolor), and all members of the families Alligatoridae and Crocodylidae._


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## Coastie

turtlebug said:


> Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning.
> 
> 
> I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.



I know it is a matter of semantics, but there just is no such animal as a "Panther" either black or any other color. Here in North America we currently have Cougars, both the Western variety and the Florida sub-species. At one time the Jaguar (which does have a melanistic phase) was native to the region. The last of them was wiped out pretty much in the south west in the 1940s. They do still exist in central and south america. 
The problem with this particular cat is that it has now been proven via DNA to be of the Florida sub-species and even though they do not exist in large enough numbers here in Georgia to be counted, they do from time to time stray in from Florida where the USFWS is trying to restore them to their original range. What this guy did was to kill, out of hand, a cat that is on the Federal endangered species list. That, is a major problem.


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER

So when can we expect the DNR to get off there behinds and go pay someone a visit?    Never???


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## Coastie

11P&YBOWHUNTER said:


> So when can we expect the DNR to get off there behinds and go pay someone a visit?    Never???



How do you know it hasn't already happened? GON is a monthly publication and although they do a very commendable job, even they don't have instant access to everything that goes on. On top of that, it could very well be a Federal Wildlfie officer that makes a case rather than the state.


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## GA DAWG

I hate it for the ol feller..Most not all hunters would have done the same thing.Atleast the ones I know would have..I guess if anybody kills another one..They better say it was attacking them


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## olcowman

GA DAWG said:


> I hate it for the ol feller..Most not all hunters would have done the same thing.Atleast the ones I know would have..I guess if anybody kills another one..They better say it was attacking them



Would most hunters really do the exact same thing? Take me out of that group, as I do not make a habit of shooting whatever happens to walk by while I am on a stand. I am not villifying the guy or passing public judgement. But perhaps some hunters would marvel at the sight of something so extremely rare and appreciate the once in a lifetime opportunity to see such an animal in the wild?

Then again you couldn't tell none of your buddies about it without being called a liar. But I personally like to think I would have been satisfied with the experience of seeing the cat and would have left it at that. I know I would!


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## money-dog

turtlebug said:


> Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning.
> 
> 
> I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.



Turtlebug,
 I see where several have scolded you and others on another thread for saying that acording DNR ...
They are correct its not the DNR, Its 95 % of the folks on here that say the big cats are not in GA.   
As for those who say they wouldn't shoot one you'd better have your camera or you'll be called a liar too.


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## birddog52

They screwed up from the start under Georgia Law Cougars are proctected wonder myself why USFW didn,t do something


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## shawn mills

olcowman said:


> Would most hunters really do the exact same thing? Take me out of that group, as I do not make a habit of shooting whatever happens to walk by while I am on a stand. I am not villifying the guy or passing public judgement. But perhaps some hunters would marvel at the sight of something so extremely rare and appreciate the once in a lifetime opportunity to see such an animal in the wild?
> 
> Then again you couldn't tell none of your buddies about it without being called a liar. But I personally like to think I would have been satisfied with the experience of seeing the cat and would have left it at that. I know I would!


 Amen!!! I'm so glad to see someone else actually feels this way too! I would be honered to see a cat like that in the woods. The only way I would even consider shooting it would be if I had no choice due to an attack. Most people are scared of what they dont know about- just like swimming with sharks. Why do you think more big cats arent seen??? They avoid us! I would hope that when  hunters  happen to see an animal this rare in Georgia, the thought to "blast him" would not be considered. Who cares if you cant prove it or dont have a camera... you know what you saw, and you should thank the good Lord and the last hunter down the road that didnt "blast him" for that rare sighting !


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## birddog52

Yeah you would think GA DNR would have charged the guy to start with instead of him smiling with his goofy mug on the picture of GON GA DNR are really on the ball don,t even no there laws. I remember reading about Bioglost saying it was released from a pen because it was in good physical shape I have seen alot of wild animals in good shape. Typical goverment


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## bearhunter39

kill em all


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## GA DAWG

bearhunter39 said:


> kill em all


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## Nicodemus

bearhunter39 said:


> kill em all





Just out of curiousity...why?


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## NCHillbilly

No way I'd shoot one in the East unless it came down to a me-or-him situation. They're fascinating critters, wish there were more of 'em around. You don't have to shoot everything you see out there.


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## crackerdave

NCHillbilly said:


> No way I'd shoot one in the East unless it came down to a me-or-him situation. They're fascinating critters, wish there were more of 'em around. You don't have to shoot everything you see out there.



Agree 100% with you and others who say "don't shoot." Those who would shoot a cougar/panther are exactly the kind of hunters who give the rest of us a bad reputation and give the anti-hunters more ammo.In my opinion,GON should not have done that story in the way they did.They gave the impression that the killing was commendable,when it was just a trigger-happy yahoo that doesn't deserve to be called a hunter.
As for the criticism of Ga.DNR - I'd like to see how well those critics could walk in those few rangers' shoes who are left to protect our sport.The state budget is cut to the bare bone.


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## GA DAWG

What really amazes me is this one has been the only one killed..I mean folks see thousands a year..Along with the black panther...I wonder also how many unicorns we have in the great state of GA!!!  Next one of those I see I think I'll kill it..Aint no law about killing a unicorn are they??


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## shakey gizzard

GA DAWG said:


> What really amazes me is this one has been the only one killed..I mean folks see thousands a year..Along with the black panther...I wonder also how many unicorns we have in the great state of GA!!!  Next one of those I see I think I'll kill it..Aint no law about killing a unicorn are they??



It has to be 10inches or better.


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## MR.BIGBUCK

Well it looks like this to me. When a truck load of elk got loose on ga about a year ago the dnr told every body if you see one shoot it we will be glad you did. No a cat shows up on ga land and this man knows they are not spoused to be here he shoots and gets him a kitty cat where does this all end and what is aloud and what is not. Me i do not think i would have shot it unless it was coming at me for dinner. But did the man break any laws not that i know of. So i would be found guilty to.


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## rdhood

> Would most hunters really do the exact same thing? Take me out of that group, as I do not make a habit of shooting whatever happens to walk by



+1.   At this point, they pose absolutely no danger to humans. 

I'm have mixed feelings about this killing. I hate to see that it was killed.  That really blows.  OTOH, if the guy had reported seeing it to the DNR, they would have laughed it off. Further, they were able to identify it as a Florida panther in GREAT shape.  That indicates that they could (probably are) here in very small numbers, and that the state will support a panther population. 

See , now when they sight a lion.... like happened around Murrayville about two months ago... the DNR can't just blow it off. This dead panther obviously slipped by a heck-of-a-lot of trail cameras, roads and people without ever leaving conclusive evidence. That means that there are PROBABLY others as well.  As long as they have plenty to eat and stay out of trouble, I think that the state is better for it.


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## WTM45

MR.BIGBUCK said:


> No a cat shows up on ga land and this man knows they are not spoused to be here he shoots and gets him a kitty cat where does this all end and what is aloud and what is not......



Did someone forget to tell the cat?


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## NCHillbilly

Here's what the feds say about the legal status of shooting a cougar anywhere in the eastern US:

"LEGAL STATUS
Eastern cougars (now known as Puma concolor couguar) and the Florida panther (now known as Puma concolor coryi) are fully protected under the Endangered Species Act. Because no one can visually distinguish these subspecies from other possible cougar subspecies in the woods, and because even DNA analysis cannot define a genetic profile for the eastern cougar subspecies, all cougars living wild in the east must be considered protected under the Act from all harm and harassment."

The state DNR doesn't really have anything to do with it, the federal endangered status of the eastern cougar trumps any state laws.


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## firefighterfree

It would be hard for him to be found guilty. All he has to say is " I feared fo my life and felt threated".  All you guys and girls know that cougars, moutain lions, panthers, puma, whatever you want to call them have been known to attack humans.


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## jonkayak

Coastie said:


> I know it is a matter of semantics, but there just is no such animal as a "Panther" either black or any other color. Here in North America we currently have Cougars, both the Western variety and the Florida sub-species. At one time the Jaguar (which does have a melanistic phase) was native to the region. The last of them was wiped out pretty much in the south west in the 1940s. They do still exist in central and south america.
> The problem with this particular cat is that it has now been proven via DNA to be of the Florida sub-species and even though they do not exist in large enough numbers here in Georgia to be counted, they do from time to time stray in from Florida where the USFWS is trying to restore them to their original range. What this guy did was to kill, out of hand, a cat that is on the Federal endangered species list. That, is a major problem.



I wouldn't bet on that one either. At least the part about them being wiped out.

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/jaguar_management.shtml

In 1996, independent discovery of two different jaguars changed prevailing perceptions about the species' presence in the United States. On March 7, 1996, houndsman/rancher Warner Glenn discovered and photographed an adult male jaguar in southwestern New Mexico (see Eyes of Fire, below). It was the first jaguar documented in the United States since two were killed illegally in Arizona in 1971 (near Nogales) and 1986 (Dos Cabezas Mountains). Then, amazingly, on August 31, 1996, yet another houndsman, Jack Childs, discovered a different adult male jaguar in south-central Arizona (see Ambushed on the Jaguar Trail: hidden cameras on the Mexican Border, below). In no small way, Warner Glenn's and Jack Childs' discoveries and their passion for jaguars are responsible for inspiring the borderlands jaguar conservation effort in which they continue to participate today.


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## turtlebug

LIB MR ducks said:


> Sorry T-Bug but you are wrong on this one. GA law does list the Cougar as a game animal therefore it is protected unless there is  a season set by DNR. Also the Florida panther is an endangered species so it is also a federal violation to kill one.
> 
> From OCGA 27-1-2:
> 
> _(34) "Game animals" means the following animals: bear, bobcat, deer, fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, sea turtles and their eggs, squirrel, cougar (Felis concolor), and all members of the families Alligatoridae and Crocodylidae._



Well, it was a joke really  But I thought DNR didn't acknowledge cougars/panthers/catsbiggerthanabobcat existing in Georgia?  

So how come the protection of a species that so many deny exists? 

And why the protection of an entire Family Crocodylidae (crocodiles and relatives) and not just Alligatoridae? Why not go straight to the sub family  Alligatorinae (alligators and caimans) and
Genus Alligator (alligators) and skip Crocodylidae altogether? Last I checked, Crocodiles  or sub families of Crocodylinae (crocodiles, dwarf crocodiles, and false gharials) don't exist in the US at all? 

That's why Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin were Australian right?


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## WTM45

GA acts a lot like CT, NY and a host of other states who do not outright confirm their active participation in restoration efforts, nor do they outright deny the possibility of their presence.

Many of us know they exist, where they are, what they are doing and have the photographs and evidence to prove it.  The ones in the know just smile!

If they did come right out and confirm their presence, it would greatly impact hunting and outdoor activity opportunities as we know them today.  Certain groups would lobby very hard for extreme protection measures.  Hunters would get the short end of the stick.


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## jonkayak

turtlebug said:


> Well, it was a joke really  But I thought DNR didn't acknowledge cougars/panthers/catsbiggerthanabobcat existing in Georgia?
> 
> So how come the protection of a species that so many in authority deny exists?



I think it's more of the fact that DNR want acknowledge that "you could have seen a Cougar." Besides that, not every  DNR officer is all that knowledgeable about what is going on state wide. I have even had DNR to ask me to identify the fish in the boat for them!


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## turtlebug

jonkayak said:


> I have even had DNR to ask me to identify the fish in the boat for them!




That's scary!  But you know there ain't but five species of fish in Georgia. 

Bass
Catfish
Bream
Crappie 

and 

Not worth eatin


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## turtlebug

WTM45 said:


> GA acts a lot like CT, NY and a host of other states who do not outright confirm their active participation in restoration efforts, nor do they outright deny the possibility of their presence.
> 
> Many of us know they exist, where they are, what they are doing and have the photographs and evidence to prove it.  The ones in the know just smile!
> 
> If they did come right out and confirm their presence, it would greatly impact hunting and outdoor activity opportunities as we know them today.  Certain groups would lobby very hard for extreme protection measures.  Hunters would get the short end of the stick.




If a common housedog in Australia can travel 1700 miles and be found 9 years later and returned to his rightful owner, then I wouldn't think that the migration of a Florida Panther would be so far fetched.  

Seems to me that the folks writing the laws are the same folks who decided to import a bunch of yotes when fox season was outlawed, so they'd have something to hunt. Now look at what we've got. 

Personally, I think they need to leave the big cats alone and concentrate on bringing the wild pheasant population back up. Now THAT was some fun hunting.  We saw a wild one the other day.  We couldn't believe it. It's been over 20 years since I've seen one but it was a welcome sight.


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## WTM45

turtlebug said:


> If a common housedog in Australia can travel 1700 miles and be found 9 years later and returned to his rightful owner, then I wouldn't think that the migration of a Florida Panther would be so far fetched.
> 
> Seems to me that the folks writing the laws are the same folks who decided to import a bunch of yotes when fox season was outlawed, so they'd have something to hunt. Now look at what we've got.
> 
> Personally, I think they need to leave the big cats alone and concentrate on bringing the wild pheasant population back up. Now THAT was some fun hunting.  We saw a wild one the other day.  We couldn't believe it. It's been over 20 years since I've seen one but it was a welcome sight.



I'm 100% in agreement!

It's hard to establish and maintain pheasant and grouse when the dynamics of the ecosystem are changing rapidly from mixed growth areas to large forests.  The treehugger lawmakers are preventing any good things like cuts, burns and field mowing in the state and federal lands up here.  That takes away from the necessary habitat to support the species.

In eastern NY, the cougar is doing VERY well.  They are killing deer at a rapid rate.


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## dawg2

rdhood said:


> +1.   At this point, they pose absolutely no danger to humans.
> I'm have mixed feelings about this killing. I hate to see that it was killed.  That really blows.  OTOH, if the guy had reported seeing it to the DNR, they would have laughed it off. Further, they were able to identify it as a Florida panther in GREAT shape.  That indicates that they could (probably are) here in very small numbers, and that the state will support a panther population.
> 
> See , now when they sight a lion.... like happened around Murrayville about two months ago... the DNR can't just blow it off. This dead panther obviously slipped by a heck-of-a-lot of trail cameras, roads and people without ever leaving conclusive evidence. That means that there are PROBABLY others as well.  As long as they have plenty to eat and stay out of trouble, I think that the state is better for it.



No danger?  Ever been out west?  They can be dangerous and have been known to attack and kill humans.


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## Mechanicaldawg

turtlebug said:


> Well, it was a joke really  But I thought DNR didn't acknowledge cougars/panthers/catsbiggerthanabobcat existing in Georgia?
> 
> So how come the protection of a species that so many deny exists?
> 
> And why the protection of an entire Family Crocodylidae (crocodiles and relatives) and not just Alligatoridae? Why not go straight to the sub family  Alligatorinae (alligators and caimans) and
> Genus Alligator (alligators) and skip Crocodylidae altogether? Last I checked, Crocodiles  or sub families of Crocodylinae (crocodiles, dwarf crocodiles, and false gharials) don't exist in the US at all?
> 
> That's why Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin were Australian right?



Actually alligators or "Alligatoridae" are a subfamily of the family Crocodylidae.

That aside, the legislature writes and passes the O.C.G.A., as opposed to DNR-WRD.

That aside, I think that the fact that WRD folks who hang out here, along with others "in the know" have stated that there are no "black panthers" in Georgia.

BTW, I understood the gist of your jest.


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## turtlebug

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Actually alligators or "Alligatoridae" are a subfamily of the family Crocodylidae.
> 
> That aside, the legislature writes and passes the O.C.G.A., as opposed to DNR-WRD.
> 
> That aside, I think that the fact that WRD folks who hang out here, along with others "in the know" have stated that there are no "black panthers" in Georgia.
> 
> BTW, I understood the gist of your jest.




Right. So since there are no crocodiles (except in captivity) in Georgia, why would you include them? Why not just go to the sub family that you know exists. 

Wouldn't that be kind of like saying "There are no cougars/panthers" but throwing a protection clause in there "JUST IN CASE". 

From the wording of that, since cougars are extremely rare and have to "travel" to get to Georgia (I think the one that got shot must've missed the memo about crossing state lines) then I would also take the fact that they included the entire genus species of Crocodylidae, that there's a remote possibility that crocodiles might be found here as well.  

Better just turn in your hunting license and get a Wii.  

It's a Catch 22. It's covering all the bases so that they can prosecute given the remote possibility that an animal non native to Georgia is killed. 

You watch, sasquatch is gonna be next.


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## Mechanicaldawg

I guess my primary point was that the "legislature" as opposed to "DNR" writes and passes legislation that is found in the O.C.G.A.

Those people are far from knowing the differences and nuances of the subject matter.

We're lucky they've come as close to accurate as they have.


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## groundhawg

shawn mills said:


> Amen!!! I'm so glad to see someone else actually feels this way too! I would be honered to see a cat like that in the woods. The only way I would even consider shooting it would be if I had no choice due to an attack. Most people are scared of what they dont know about- just like swimming with sharks. Why do you think more big cats arent seen??? They avoid us! I would hope that when  hunters  happen to see an animal this rare in Georgia, the thought to "blast him" would not be considered. Who cares if you cant prove it or dont have a camera... you know what you saw, and you should thank the good Lord and the last hunter down the road that didnt "blast him" for that rare sighting !



Very well stated from both of you.  Thanks.
GT


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## Nicodemus

My thoughts on this subject....

The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway. 

Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left. 

I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.


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## Miguel Cervantes

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.


 
Well said Nic.


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## General Lee

That's not the only one that's been killed in Ga.


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## rdhood

> No danger? Ever been out west?



Yep, no danger.  This isn't out west.  This is Georgia.   As of yet, there is no danger.


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## turtlebug

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.



I doubt that!  


That would make for some awesome trail cam pics.  


Promise?


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## Miguel Cervantes

turtlebug said:


> I doubt that!
> 
> 
> That would make for some awesome trail cam pics.
> 
> 
> Promise?


 TBug, I've been fortunate enough to have watched a Cougar from about 100ft away while still hunting with a bow in Putnam County several years ago. They are an awesome cat to behold, and trust me when I tell you this, you would have no problem climbing into even the tallest of ladder stands were you to encounter one of these beautiful creatures in the woods..


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## turtlebug

scooter1 said:


> TBug, I've been fortunate enough to have watched a Cougar from about 100ft away while still hunting with a bow in Putnam County several years ago. They are an awesome cat to behold, and trust me when I tell you this, you would have no problem climbing into even the tallest of ladder stands were you to encounter one of these beautiful creatures in the woods..




I don't doubt you one bit.  I great up in the woods. They really like to travel and hang out at the power lines.


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## NCHillbilly

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.



X2. good post, Nic. 

Quote from TB: "Last I checked, Crocodiles or sub families of Crocodylinae (crocodiles, dwarf crocodiles, and false gharials) don't exist in the US at all? 

That's why Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin were Australian right? "

Actually, there is an American crocodile, and it gets big. It's pretty rare nowadays and is mostly found in southern FL, but there was a big'un found in the surf near Charleston, SC last year. It probably had to come through GA to get to SC. 
__________________


----------



## jonkayak

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.



x3 Well said. People's fear of them is hard for me to understand.  If your that afraid of the woods stay home!


----------



## shakey gizzard

I personally wouldnt mind sharing the woods or the game with them, Ill be packn! But until you see what they can do to a unsuspecting jogger,hiker,mountain biker, You wont be so willing to protect them! Ive seen the bad side of coexisting with an appex predator in Banff national forest.Its all fun and games until someone gets mauled.


----------



## Throwback

Coastie said:


> I know it is a matter of semantics, but there just is no such animal as a "Panther" either black or any other color. Here in North America we currently have Cougars, both the Western variety and the Florida sub-species. At one time the Jaguar (which does have a melanistic phase) was native to the region. The last of them was wiped out pretty much in the south west in the 1940s. They do still exist in central and south america.
> The problem with this particular cat is that it has now been proven via DNA to be of the Florida sub-species and even though they do not exist in large enough numbers here in Georgia to be counted, they do from time to time stray in from Florida where the USFWS is trying to restore them to their original range. What this guy did was to kill, out of hand, a cat that is on the Federal endangered species list. That, is a major problem.



Bottom line---someone in this story has a serious legal problem, and it ain't the gov't. 

T


----------



## Throwback

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.



You answered your own question. 

T


----------



## jonkayak

shakey gizzard said:


> I personally wouldnt mind sharing the woods or the game with them, Ill be packn! But until you see what they can do to a unsuspecting jogger,hiker,mountain biker, You wont be so willing to protect them! Ive seen the bad side of coexisting with an appex predator in Banff national forest.Its all fun and games until someone gets mauled.



Aren't we are all surrounded by the true apex predators on a daily bases?  We don't wipe them all out.

I have seen what an apex predator can do and am fully aware of there capabilities but in the end I would rather be abel to see them in the wilds then to have some ill informed nut feel comfortable about his walk in the woods. 

I fear the people in the woods more then I have ever feared any animal. The reason I carry when backpacking has never been to defend myself from an animal but from some low life human. To me hiking in an urban areas is more unnerving then being in mountain lion or grizzly territory. So for now, I'm for protecting the eastern cougar and thinning out the human population a little.


----------



## gmpits

Hey if they eat dillas im for importing a few.People laugh at me all the time but there was big cat on my folks place a few years back.Left a track big as my hand.My mom was for shooting it if I saw it while hunting but I wont unless I HAVE to.BTW we havent seen it since


----------



## turky93

Ive been able to keep my mouth shut on this so far, but I guess Ill throw in my opinion.
It seems simple to me. Its a Florida panther, and those happen to be federally protected. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if the guy was scared, or if he was shocked to see the cat...It is illegal to kill them. If I were to go out in my yard, see a black bear, and kill it because I wasnt used to seeing black bears...would I be in the right?  I dont think so, and I doubt DNR would either.
From what I understand, florida panthers are in serious danger, with their numbers already low. They dont need any help from all of you guys who would "blast him" just because you've never seen one. With enough of people with that attitude in the woods, none of us will ever see one. We have to realize that we may not always be the only predator out there.


----------



## crackerdave

You're right,turky93. Us humans ain't doing a real great job as population-controlling predators.We need more meat hunters and fewer antler hunters!


----------



## shakey gizzard

jonkayak said:


> Aren't we are all surrounded by the true apex predators on a daily bases?  We don't wipe them all out.
> 
> I have seen what an apex predator can do and am fully aware of there capabilities but in the end I would rather be abel to see them in the wilds then to have some ill informed nut feel comfortable about his walk in the woods.
> 
> I fear the people in the woods more then I have ever feared any animal. The reason I carry when backpacking has never been to defend myself from an animal but from some low life human. To me hiking in an urban areas is more unnerving then being in mountain lion or grizzly territory. So for now, I'm for protecting the eastern cougar and thinning out the human population a little.



Who you calling ill informed? When they start darting or trapping them to relocate. You can put YOUR backyard as a place too release themI agree with thinning out the human population.


----------



## injun joe

There are wild places for these animals to live freely(Okeefenokee, Everglades).When people make a conscious decision to enter these areas, they should be ready for the consequences.When animals reach the carrying capacity of these areas and venture outside, they should be fair game.
 No one should have to worry about the safety of their children or grandchildren from wild animals in rural or urban areas. A cougar is no different from a gator, bear or rabid dog in this respect. I don't fear these animals when I walk in the woods, but cougars are certainly responsible for deaths every year out west and will be no different here. These animals were killed as pests for a reason ,whether you want to accept that or not.
 "A rat is a dog is a boy" is PETA's motto, not mine. Boys and girls are higher up in my pecking order.
It's funny that for a long time, those "in the know" argued that there were no such thing as large cats in GA. I saw a Forest Service employee laugh in a man's face in Blairsville who said he'd seen one. Everyone always said if they were here, somebody would have shot one. Well, now somebody has shot one, and where is the line of people apologizing? I don't see that thread.


----------



## shakey gizzard

injun joe said:


> There are wild places for these animals to live freely(Okeefenokee, Everglades).When people make a conscious decision to enter these areas, they should be ready for the consequences.When animals reach the carrying capacity of these areas and venture outside, they should be fair game.
> No one should have to worry about the safety of their children or grandchildren from wild animals in rural or urban areas. A cougar is no different from a gator, bear or rabid dog in this respect. I don't fear these animals when I walk in the woods, but cougars are certainly responsible for deaths every year out west and will be no different here. These animals were killed as pests for a reason ,whether you want to accept that or not.
> "A rat is a dog is a boy" is PETA's motto, not mine. Boys and girls are higher up in my pecking order.
> It's funny that for a long time, those "in the know" argued that there were no such thing as large cats in GA. I saw a Forest Service employee laugh in a man's face in Blairsville who said he'd seen one. Everyone always said if they were here, somebody would have shot one. Well, now somebody has shot one, and where is the line of people apologizing? I don't see that thread.



Well said !


----------



## 11P&YBOWHUNTER

So, is the guy gonna face charges or not?  You would think with him claiming the critter and getting many photos with it and and and....then of course the DNR taking it away....you would htink there is enough evidence to support charges right?  Don't get me wrong, i would shoot it too because i know nobody would believe it including myself...but right about now i would be messing my britches!!!


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## HOGDOG76

The population is much higher than fl/ga acknowledge.they say they are restricted to south fl and the panhandle but i grew up above st augustine and we always had them. it even stopped the building of a county dump because it might affect its habitat. Several people i was stationed with on kings bay also saw one on base and there used to be a picture of it hanging in one of the buildings. I was once shown a picture of a guy with one he shot on a powerline and it looked alot like ga which is what he claimed I believe somebody has already hit the nail on the head with saying if they are proven here it will affect land usage (development)big time!! I aint gonna shoot one but im glad somebody did to shut up the naysayers and bring attention to their existence.

NIC
maybe the answer to  your question is young males will often roam in search of their own territory and down here somebody already set up house so he kept going


----------



## Nicodemus

HOGDOG76 said:


> NIC
> maybe the answer to  your question is young males will often roam in search of their own territory and down here somebody already set up house so he kept going




That is quite possible, Hogdog. Or maybe he couldn`t find a "wife", down here, to his likin`. Hard to say, but I do have some ideas.


----------



## LIB MR ducks

turtlebug said:


> Well, it was a joke really  But I thought DNR didn't acknowledge cougars/panthers/catsbiggerthanabobcat existing in Georgia?
> 
> So how come the protection of a species that so many deny exists?
> 
> And why the protection of an entire Family Crocodylidae (crocodiles and relatives) and not just Alligatoridae? Why not go straight to the sub family  Alligatorinae (alligators and caimans) and
> Genus Alligator (alligators) and skip Crocodylidae altogether? Last I checked, Crocodiles  or sub families of Crocodylinae (crocodiles, dwarf crocodiles, and false gharials) don't exist in the US at all?
> 
> That's why Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin were Australian right?



Keep stirring T-Bug!     By the way I wonder if a .243 would be a heavy enough caliber to kill a cougar if they were legal, especially on a long shot.


----------



## jonkayak

shakey gizzard said:


> Who you calling ill informed? When they start darting or trapping them to relocate. You can put YOUR backyard as a place too release themI agree with thinning out the human population.



Consider it done! I have a homeless problem and a feral cat problem in my area and that should take care of both of them and give the Cougars some easy food to get started on.


----------



## olcowman

dawg2 said:


> No danger?  Ever been out west?  They can be dangerous and have been known to attack and kill humans.



Lots of animals have been known to attack and kill humans, even here in the east. A black bear poses some risks and they have been responsible for a few deaths over the years on this side of the country. Coyotes, squirrels, coons, even chipmunks are reported biting and scratching folks in public parks and residential yards ever year right here in Ga.  (not to mention the threat of rabies or other cross-species diseases)

Heck I nearly lost a nipple just the other day to a human hating shellcracker that resides in our pond. Just imagine what that could of done to any plans I might have in the future for a modeling career or something? LOL Outdoor activities of all types and interactions with nature, whether intentional or not, all pose some degree of inherent risk, no matter where it takes place.

I think the answer is to use a little common sense and take a few precautions when needed rather than shoot everything into extinction that may somehow cause harm to a human?  I will gladly "endure" a little risk now and then just for a chance to cross paths with a big cat here where we live and hunt! Shoot, I hope a big pile of them Florida panthers decide to come on up here and hang out!


----------



## birddog52

Don,t think that story will hold water after what he said in GON Magzine and the trail camera photos Hope the Feds make a example of this guy he kinda reminds me  of the Rednecks on Dove field that shoot anything that flies by he just makes Honest hunters look Bad Got to remember we are a minority thes days


----------



## GA DAWG

I'm shooting every panther I see from now one


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## shortround1

Woodsman69 said:


> Here is a fact, if I'm in my stand with a 400 yard walk back to the truck and a panther walks by my tree I'm gonna
> 
> Then I'm gonna dig a nice hole in the ground and keep my mouth shut.


 why don't u rattle your can of corn to get a closer shot?he may just come strait to your corn pile.


----------



## shortround1

turtlebug said:


> Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning.
> 
> 
> I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.


good point, it may have been a transplant or someones pet gone loose. when we don't understand something lets just shoot it!


----------



## Headsortails

Just to add my 2 cents, what is the thought process that leads to the killing of a panther? I'm sitting in my stand and a panther comes by. Instead of letting the animal live and maybe (though I can see reasons not to) alerting the game boys, I shoot it and then alert the game boys. When will some people learn that the mark of a good hunter is not what he kills but what he lets walk.


----------



## MIG

obrunson said:


> ...the mark of a good hunter is not what he kills but what he lets walk.



 HEAR, HEAR !


----------



## Throwback

balvarik said:


> How else are ya going to find out what critters taste like?
> Or what gun/load works on different sized critters?



Or what the fine/prison time is?


T


----------



## olcowman

rdhood said:


> +1.  This dead panther obviously slipped by a heck-of-a-lot of trail cameras, roads and people without ever leaving conclusive evidence. That means that there are PROBABLY others as well.  As long as they have plenty to eat and stay out of trouble, I think that the state is better for it.



Dang, this statement just hit me. Stop and actually consider the number of trail cams between Troup County and south Florida. How many farm houses, country roads and even major highways did he pass on this journey? These things must really avoid the human scent associated with bait sites and do their traveling at night. Heck there may be a whole pile of them already here and this was just a dumb one or something and wasn't as stealthy as the rest of them.

I gotta rethink my stance on bigfeet. Just in case.... does anybody know whether or not it is against the law to kill a bigfoot? Or what it'll cost a feller to get one mounted?


----------



## olcowman

balvarik said:


> Please forgive my thinking, as I forget how many people live on such a small area down there.
> 
> Alerting the Game & Fish personal?
> 
> How many personal does the DNR have in the field?
> 
> Is the amount of hunt-able land so small that it is able to be covered so efficiently by Agents of the State that a gunshot brings them to your stand?
> 
> Best quit hunting the suburbs then and hit some real country!
> 
> Mike



I don't get this post at all? Is it a jab at our state or something? I've hunted up there and it ain't all that pal. Ya'll could use a few trees and a hill or two from down here to give them deer up there something to hide behind where ya'll couldn't just ride around and hunt them in your pickup all day.


----------



## Ruger#3

It's humorous watching this play out for the second time in my life. 

The AGFC ran around for years and denied the existence of Cougars in AR even though there were numerous reports. My own brother saw one spring from a tree and bound off while turkey hunting in the Ozark national forest.

A few years later a carcass was retrieved when a Cougar was hit by a semi crossing I-40.

They now acknowledge they are there in small numbers. IMHO it is very cool having them around in the mix. Unless threatened I would no more shoot one than I would a bear. Cougars and Bears are Gods way of giving us perspective, love the feel of the big woods.


----------



## jimbo4116

This is one of them situations of we can emphatically state what we would do.  But having not faced those circumstances it is still just theory for each of us.

Certainly the man made a mistake and will pay for it more than likely.

As for cougars in Georgia, it will take only one instance of a beloved pet or heaven forbid a child or hiker being attacked and killed for the "panther" to become a really threatened species.  

Predatory species in populated areas worry me.  I see how the coyotes are becoming more and more desensitized to the humans in their surroundings. You add 80+ pounds, with bigger teeth and sharp claws and I really worry.

I have had an encounter with a bear, but bears are not really predatory creatures.  Cougars are stalkers and it is a little unnerving to think of one patterning my walk into the deer stand.

Don't think cougars make a head on attacks but lie in wait.  Might be something to think about as you watch that big cat walk by your stand winding your scent.

Would I shoot just to say I killed a cougar and brag about it. Pretty sure I wouldn't.  Having time to consider the walk out of the woods holding a flashlight in one hand and rifle or bow in the other not able to look over both shoulders and ahead at the same time, would I shoot. 

Don't know.

Been faced with much less threatening scenarios and did something I said I would never do.


----------



## olcowman

balvarik said:


> I've hunted up there and it ain't all that pal.
> Where and when?
> 
> Ya'll could use a few trees and a hill or two from down here to give them deer up there something to hide behind where ya'll couldn't just ride around and hunt them in your pickup all day.
> 
> From that statement alone your ignorance of the "Land of 10,000 Lakes" and it's geography of the state could fill a ....
> 
> Because someone has been to Minneapolis/St.Paul or Rochester you aint seen bull-spit!
> 
> The southeast corner of Minnesota alone would have anyone from Towns or Rabun county right at home in terms of terrain!
> 
> Mike



Dang..why are your panties in such a wad? You starting this with your flippant remark about the lack of hunting space in our state and our "suburban hunting" habits. Your post had a sort of a degrading tone to it and I just shot back with my own opinion of that ice box of a state you live in. Nothing personal, I've been all over the state of Minn and it ain't a bad place at all....it would be a pretty decent area if they got rid of all the dang yankees up there.


----------



## olcowman

Okay, okay I concede....I said it ain't a bad place! You are the one who came up with the "shot bringing a game warden" phrase on your own, and I reckon I don't hunt much where that is likely? Thank the Lord we got us a few places down here where you can put a stand up and not be right in somebodys backyard. 

I do admire one thing, in your avatar it looks like ya'lls women does the deer gutting? Now how in the world did you get em to doing that? Mine won't even clean a fish no more! Is that common up there? Do they skin possoms too, or know how to render fat off a bear? 

Ain't ya'll got a MON forum up yonder?


----------



## olcowman

Feeding cracklings to the birds? Aint you ever had no crackling corn bread? I'm purty sure wasting cracklings like that is mentioned somewhere in the Bible?


----------



## bigreddwon

dawg2 said:


> No danger?  Ever been out west?  They can be dangerous and have been known to attack and kill humans.



 Thats a weak excuse to shoot them, at best. I lived in Az untill recently for over 30 years.. Ive read about ONE attack in that time.. Was a female with young that attacked a 5 year old boy who had wanderd off from the parking lot near the lake.. The boys father yelled at it and threw rocks at it untill it dropped the boy ( had him by the head and not the neck thankfully ), he made a full recovery. 

So unless your a wee little child your not in much danger of being attacked.. But I doubt the folks who shoot these animals REALLY need an excuse...


----------



## Tater Bug

Go ask those hikers in California about the danger in big cats. Oh that's right, some of them are six feet under. Open season, lets break out the hounds and kill some kitty cats!


----------



## Throwback

I bet more people have been killed in deer car collisions than have been attacked by cats and bears together in the last 20 years. 

Lets go kill all the deer!

T


----------



## redlevel

Throwback said:


> Lets go kill all the deer!
> 
> T



Thass whut I'm talkin' 'bout!!


----------



## WTM45

Tater Bug said:


> Go ask those hikers in California about the danger in big cats. Oh that's right, some of them are six feet under. Open season, lets break out the hounds and kill some kitty cats!



Where there is a legal season, sure.


----------



## shortround1

turtlebug said:


> Dear gonnurse, according to DNR, panthers do not exist in Georgia so how can one be charged with shooting something that there are no regulations concerning.
> 
> 
> I guess it's like shooting sasquatch. If he doesn't exist, how are you gonna charge someone if they shoot one.


i started carrying a can of cat food in my pack for the day old kitty comes looking.


----------



## Throwback

This one done got good...



T


----------



## Spotlite

I think I would have to muddy the water using the previous reports that this was just a pen raised cat turned loose or gotten loose vs the DNA for a Florida wild cat with a good crooked lawyer. I would fight it, may loose but certainly fight it.


----------



## shakey gizzard

There are cougars in georgia?


----------



## WTM45

shakey gizzard said:


> There are cougars in georgia?



We know there is one less............


----------



## CamoCop

Nicodemus said:


> My thoughts on this subject....
> 
> The fact that a Florida panther was shot in Georgia, surprises me not the least little bit. What does surprise me is why did it not stay in prime huntin` territory when it came through south Georgia. I am also curious as to why the man shot it. I`ve never heard of a case of a Florida panther attackin` a person. I might get cut into cat chow tomorrow, but I`m willin` to bet my life on it that I won`t. I`m in the woods a lot, just about every day. I`m often armed with no more than a knife, and I`m not worried one little bit. Why should anybody else be? The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.
> 
> Why the worry about them if a few wander up here, anyway? The ones that came up here durin` the Florida experiment, ate armadillos as their primary diet. I they were gonna wip[e out the precious deer herd, they would have done it 500 years ago, when there were plenty of them, all over the place. They didn`t then, they won`t now. This place is designed to have more than just prey. Predators are needed to keep things in check, to give timid folks chills, and to add mystery to the few wild places that we have left.
> 
> I, for one, would love to see them back, in enough numbers to make things interestin`. And if anybody is that scared of them, call me, and I will be glad to escort you to the relative safety of your deer stand, and come back and get you, when you`re ready to come out.



x2!


----------



## backyard buck

Ga. panthers are cool !!!


----------



## Darkhorse

*Another point to ponder...*

Or maybe he couldn`t find a "wife", down here, to his likin`. 
Nicodemus, That thought is exactly what is being reported in Florida about this incident. I spent the weekend in Plant City and read about the cougar in the Tampa Tribune. The biologists are speculating that this cougar did exactly what cougars do, he just ranged farther or he just happend to get shot and noticed. I expect cougar girfriends are few and far between once he passes the turnpike or Ga. line.
True, they said he was healthy but no mention of escaping (possible) from a pen.
Now here is the point I've been thinking about; The DNA tests showed that this cougar's father was a Florida Panther.
So, what strain was his mother? And where exactly was he concieved?  Think about this one awhile. A couple of scenarios here.
And for those who don't like the moniker Fla. Panther, well that's what the real crackers have been calling them for generations, so right name or not, that's what they are.


----------



## Spotlite

Darkhorse said:


> tests showed that this cougar's father was a Florida Panther.
> So, what strain was his mother?



What if his mother is not on the protected list?


----------



## olcowman

Spotlite said:


> What if his mother is not on the protected list?



Well I reckon he'd just be half guilty of breaking a federal law? And for all you 'great white hunters' that would shoot any big cat you see cause your afraid it's gonna "get you" on your way out of the woods. How about growing (Edited by Woody's staff.) up a little? I would be embarrased to make such a statement. 

You can always hunt from your back porch to eliminate some of the "danger".... if you are seriously concerned about getting eat up by a panther I got a solution for you. Find somebody you don't particularly care for (I would personally choose one of those who has posted the above mentioned comments about feeling compelled to shoot to save themselves)and introduce them to the wonderful world of hunting. The real trick here, and key to this whole thing, is to pick someone you are 100% sure you can outrun.

 That way when you're attacked by that "mean old man-eating cougar" that you are so sure is waiting around the next tree for you...it will catch and begin to consume your slower hunting buddy while you run back to the truck unharmed! That way you can still hunt like always (cept maybe without crying all the way back to the truck like you usually do) and you ain't going to be forced to break any federal laws by shooting an endangered species. Plus your hunting pals will never find out what a sniveling, scaredy cat, chicken poop kind of feller you really are!


----------



## olcowman

balvarik said:


> Lived there over 30years?
> And your 39years old?
> 
> Guess as a youngin you didn't here about such attacks.
> 
> http://www.cougarinfo.org/
> 
> http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks.htm
> 
> http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks2.htm
> 
> http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks3.htm
> 
> http://www.cougarinfo.org/attackex.htm
> 
> 
> Mike



I just read thru most of these and coudn't find a single account of a hunter being attacked by a cougar. And the trend over the last few years seems to suggest that big cats specifically target bicycle riders, joggers, bird watchers, and that sort of prey. (coincedently the same sort of folks who would fall victim to those two fellers from Deliverence) 

Furthermore if you took the number attacks and divide them by a conservative estimation of what is reportedly the number of people who visit our national park areas for just such activities, well you got a lot better chance of winning the big lottery. A lot better chance. Anyhow it is obvious that cougars generally don't like the taste of hunters therefore it ain't gonna be necessary to shoot all of them to safe your life!


----------



## olhippie

...Is a FLORIDA panther still a Florida panther after he's taken up residence in GEORGIA? Would a hunter be required to DNA test any panther (Cougar) he sees in order to determine if it is a legal western cougar , or an Illegal Florida panther? The whole hub bub seems a bit silly to me. A cougar 'visiting' here from one state is legal to take, while another from a different state is possible jail time?....Maybe this 'King's deer' thing has gone a bit to far in this case.


----------



## Throwback

olhippie said:


> ...Is a FLORIDA panther still a Florida panther after he's taken up residence in GEORGIA? Would a hunter be required to DNA test any panther (Cougar) he sees in order to determine if it is a legal western cougar , or an Illegal Florida panther? The whole hub bub seems a bit silly to me. A cougar 'visiting' here from one state is legal to take, while another from a different state is possible jail time?....Maybe this 'King's deer' thing has gone a bit to far in this case.



1) Yes, that's just the NAME of it. 

2) Could be. 

3) Two different species. 

T


----------



## olhippie

...Make that SUB-species.


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## olcowman

olhippie said:


> ...Is a FLORIDA panther still a Florida panther after he's taken up residence in GEORGIA? Would a hunter be required to DNA test any panther (Cougar) he sees in order to determine if it is a legal western cougar , or an Illegal Florida panther? The whole hub bub seems a bit silly to me. A cougar 'visiting' here from one state is legal to take, while another from a different state is possible jail time?....Maybe this 'King's deer' thing has gone a bit to far in this case.



Why would you want to take one anyway? Why not let a few of em walk and establish a breeding population? Why would one even consider taking a shot at what may or may not ( at least a 50% chance ) be one of only a few dozen of the last surviving Fl panthers on the face of the earth?

It's a sad commentary on the hunters in this state if the biggest concern over the possibility of Ga having its own breeding population of cougars is "can we go ahead and shoot 'em"? These things aint going to be dragging you off on your way to your deer stand or snatching your kids out of your backyard. The statistics where they are populous don't support that scenario. I doubt they would have much of an impact on our game animals other than weeding out the weak ones which the modern day trophy hunter is reluctant to do anyway.

Somebody explain to me why shoot them? Why even be concerned whether it is illegal or not? If it ain't got you by the throat or stalking your children at the playground, what would compell anybody to bust a cap in one?


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## Throwback

olhippie said:


> ...Make that SUB-species.



Correction noted. 

T


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## C.Killmaster

> olhippie;4018872 Would a hunter be required to DNA test any panther (Cougar) he sees in order to determine if it is a legal western cougar , or an Illegal Florida panther?



There is no "legal" panther in Georgia.  The cougar (_Puma concolor_, all subspecies) is listed in state law as a game animal with a closed season.  (The law actually reads _Felis concolor_ as it was written before the genus was changed to _Puma_, symantics I guess.)


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## GA DAWG

C.Killmaster said:


> There is no "legal" panther in Georgia.  The cougar (_Puma concolor_, all subspecies) is listed in state law as a game animal with a closed season.  (The law actually reads _Felis concolor_ as it was written before the genus was changed to _Puma_, symantics I guess.)


 We can kill Elk,fallow deer,Emu's,Sitka deer,Lions and Tigers But not a cougar..  The thing to do is just post pictures of it on here or send em in to GON... Keep it top secrect if you do kill one I recken!


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## Throwback

GA DAWG said:


> We can kill Elk,fallow deer,Emu's,Sitka deer,Lions and Tigers But not a cougar..  The thing to do is just post pictures of it on here or send em in to GON... Keep it top secrect if you do kill one I recken!



Yeah post pics here we won't tell anybody!

T


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## C.Killmaster

GA DAWG said:


> We can kill Elk,fallow deer,Emu's,Sitka deer,Lions and Tigers But not a cougar..  The thing to do is just post pictures of it on here or send em in to GON... Keep it top secrect if you do kill one I recken!



Why is that crazy?  You can kill doves, ducks, snipe, crows, turkeys, and marsh hens, but you can't kill an eagle.


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## GA DAWG

C.Killmaster said:


> Why is that crazy?  You can kill doves, ducks, snipe, crows, turkeys, and marsh hens, but you can't kill an eagle.


I didnt know people in the state kept Eagles for pets here in the state then turned em out when they couldnt handle them...


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## GA DAWG

Throwback said:


> Yeah post pics here we won't tell anybody!
> 
> T


I'll just PM them directly to you or your headquarters..Which ever way will be the fastest


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## Nicodemus

GA DAWG said:


> I didnt know people in the state kept Eagles for pets here in the state then turned em out when they couldnt handle them...



You are completely missin` the point. Those animals are exotics to the state of Georgia. The panther is not.


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## GA DAWG

Nicodemus said:


> You are completely missin` the point. Those animals are exotics to the state of Georgia. The panther is not.


A western cougar is not


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## Nicodemus

GA DAWG said:


> A western cougar is not



You are corrct on that point, however, the Florida panther is.


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## bestbucks

shawn mills said:


> Amen!!! I'm so glad to see someone else actually feels this way too! I would be honered to see a cat like that in the woods. The only way I would even consider shooting it would be if I had no choice due to an attack. Most people are scared of what they dont know about- just like swimming with sharks. Why do you think more big cats arent seen??? They avoid us! I would hope that when  hunters  happen to see an animal this rare in Georgia, the thought to "blast him" would not be considered. Who cares if you cant prove it or dont have a camera... you know what you saw, and you should thank the good Lord and the last hunter down the road that didnt "blast him" for that rare sighting !


I second that Amen Shawn! Well said!


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## Jhunt

C.Killmaster said:


> (The law actually reads _Felis concolor_ as it was written before the genus was changed to _Puma_, symantics I guess.)



Not symantics, a technicallity.   If it says Felis concolor, then the guy has nothing to worry about as that species technically does not exist.


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## Throwback

Jhunt said:


> Not symantics, a technicallity.   If it says Felis concolor, then the guy has nothing to worry about as that species technically does not exist.



He does because the FEDS are investigating him, NOT GA DNR. 

Two totally different sets of laws. 


T


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## shakey gizzard

GA DAWG said:


> I didnt know people in the state kept Eagles for pets here in the state then turned em out when they couldnt handle them...



2 year old male bald eagle, free to good home! Very patriotic but refuses to eat hooch trout!


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## GA DAWG

shakey gizzard said:


> 2 year old male bald eagle, free to good home! Very patriotic but refuses to eat hooch trout!


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## SwampMoss

I wander how the cat tasted.


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## Throwback

SwampMoss said:


> I wander how the cat tasted.



A little more gamey than a bald eagle. 


T


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## Nicodemus

SwampMoss said:


> I wander how the cat tasted.



White meat, very fine grained, with a mild taste. Real similar to veal.


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## saltysenior

why would anyone have fear of a panther living in the woods???after reading a lot of posts on this forum,my biggest fear is sharing the woods with the ''brown is down''crowd...


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## olcowman

Nicodemus said:


> White meat, very fine grained, with a mild taste. Real similar to veal.



That sounds alot like regular house cat meat?


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## HVACTECH26

Man I sure am glad there are so many  experts out there! It really comforts me to know that their are so many experts on here.


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## olcowman

HVACTECH26 said:


> Man I sure am glad there are so many  experts out there! It really comforts me to know that their are so many experts on here.



Okay I'll bite. Who is the experts your talking about? You sound a little sarcastic?


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## JB in SC

I was chastised for bringing up this mountain lion kill on another forum.

Many hunters feel that even raising the possibility of having a population of mountain lions might have a detrimental effect on hunting through habitat preservation for an endangered species. 

The state of Florida has some non profit environmental groups that are trying to get 4800 square miles designated as Florida panther habitat through the USFWS, which in essence, means little or no development of the area. How that relates to hunting is a guess, but may not bode well.

IIRC, the penalty for killing an endangered species is a maximum of $50,000 with a one year jail term.

The guy did a stupid thing by killing what most hunters know is an endangered species (ignorance of the law means nothing-you will still go to jail), but I'd not be too hasty to say what a person will or won't do if face to face with one in close quarters.


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## GA DAWG

I dont see how he did such a stupid thing..Everybody you talk to in middle and north ga would pretty much tell you we had no cougars here..Even BIOLOGISTS..I dont want any land set aside for em in GA..I say we kill black ones and all  Are ELK protected in GA? I know they were once here back a long time ago..What if one of the North Carolina Elk runs down into north GA...Can I shoot it??


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## JB in SC

The $50,000 fine is the least of his worries, a federal prison wouldn't be my vacation choice.

Eastern Elk were extinct by 1800. 

The ones in GSMNP are western elk, they are radio collared and tracked. The herd is very small, there were only 50 total introduced in 2001-2002. They are in the Cataloochee Valley, about 40 miles from Cherokee. I don't think they'll be running down to NE Ga anytime soon. Probably ten time more volunteers keeping up with them than elk.

Elk are hunted in Kentucky, I think they issued 12 permits last year. Population is over 7800. They've only been in the restoration process since 1997.


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## GA DAWG

JB in SC said:


> The $50,000 fine is the least of his worries, a federal prison wouldn't be my vacation choice.
> 
> Eastern Elk were extinct by 1800.
> 
> The ones in GSMNP are western elk, they are radio collared and tracked. The herd is very small, there were only 50 total introduced in 2001-2002. They are in the Cataloochee Valley, about 40 miles from Cherokee. I don't think they'll be running down to NE Ga anytime soon. Probably ten time more volunteers keeping up with them than elk.
> 
> Elk are hunted in Kentucky, I think they issued 12 permits last year. Population is over 7800. They've only been in the restoration process since 1997.


So you figured a  florida cougar would make it all the way to troup county BUT dont think the elk can make north ga?


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## Nicodemus

Here`s something for ya`ll to debate on. In spite of all the wishin` and wantin`, there is no archealogical evidence that elk were ever here in the state of Georgia, in historical times, to begin with.  Buffalo, yes, elk, no.


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## Tomboy Boots

Nicodemus said:


> Here`s something for ya`ll to debate on. In spite of all the wishin` and wantin`, there is no archealogical evidence that elk were ever here in the state of Georgia, in historical times, to begin with.  Buffalo, yes, elk, no.



We have elk in Lowndes county  Panthers too  The Valdosta Daily Times said a radio collared one came through here back around 1997  I haven't seen a buffalo yet  Hope you're feeling better Nick


----------



## JB in SC

GA DAWG said:


> So you figured a  florida cougar would make it all the way to troup county BUT dont think the elk can make north ga?



All the GSMNP elk are radio collared. The NPS and USFWS have designated buffer zones outside the park. Elk are removed from those areas if they cause crop damage or don't move back into the park from the buffer zone.

A mountain lion is different, it is a solitary animal.  Males especially require a large territory. 100 square miles (64,000 acres) is about average.

The Troup county mountain lion saga may never be solved to everyone's satisfaction. We'll see how the USFWS proceeds.


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## olcowman

JB in SC said:


> All the GSMNP elk are radio collared. The NPS and USFWS have designated buffer zones outside the park. Elk are removed from those areas if they cause crop damage or don't move back into the park from the buffer zone.
> 
> A mountain lion is different, it is a solitary animal.  Males especially require a large territory. 100 square miles (64,000 acres) is about average.
> 
> The Troup county mountain lion saga may never be solved to everyone's satisfaction. We'll see how the USFWS proceeds.



Why isn't this thing coming to a conclusion by now? Is there not a pretty specific set of rules concerning the killing of these animals set out by both the state and the USFWS? Did dna tests not also confirm beyond the shadow of any doubt that the cat was an endangered Florida panther? 

I don't think it is help up for lack of evidence is it? I would presume that when some trigger happy genius pops a cap in one and then poses for pics published statewide in newspapers and the GON magazine, I figured that would be pretty good evidence right there.

Perhaps I am wrong here but.... the lack of decisiveness of the authorities and delay of legal proceedings of any kind....my instinct tells me this ol' boy must "know somebody" or be "somebodies sister's boy" or something along those lines. If that was me holding that big ol' thing up for the picture, I would probably be under the jail somewhere right now? 

First of all, I wouldn't kill one because I just aint the kind to shoot in a situation like that just to kill something, and secondly.... I am afraid to death of the police! Especially the one's that have badges that say 'federal' something on them! I done watched too many of them "Locked Up" and "Behind the Bars" tv programs about them big federal prisons. The simple fact that I could end up "wearing eye shadow and a toten' another feller's pocketbook to the cafeteria for him" someday soon would be more than enough incentive to hold off on pulling the trigger in that circumstance!


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## smitty8765

I say let them live and breed, Maybe they will grow fond of eating coyotes. There are multiples pics of a pair of them in Mitchell co. near pebble/sale city. They were taken by a game cam in a food plot. Last week the horses at my in laws went crazy and they said they heard something scream at the edge of the woods. Its only about 1/2 a mile as the crow flies from where the pics were taken. I would hate to have one jump on my back in the dark while I am headed to the stand though.....


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## Throwback

We have timber wolves in my county. 

T


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## olcowman

Throwback said:


> We have timber wolves in my county.
> 
> T



In west central Georgia? What? Do the Bigfoot's keep them for pets or something?


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## Steve762us

Nicodemus said:


> The biggest danger to these cats is automobiles and some misinformed person with a weapon. The biggest danger one of these cats pose to a person, is maybe somebody runnin` into a low hangin` limb, or fallin` in a hole runnin` from one, that had no intentions of an attack on them anyway.



There's a handful of joggers out in California, who'd argue the point--tho the majority are no longer available for comment.  

The seem to favor *female* joggers, for whatever reason...

They've had some attacks in areas that were not particularly pressured by encroachment.  Whether any of that will occur here in GA, who knows...


----------



## Nicodemus

Steve762us said:


> There's a handful of joggers out in California, who'd argue the point--tho the majority are no longer available for comment.
> 
> The seem to favor *female* joggers, for whatever reason...
> 
> They've had some attacks in areas that were not particularly pressured by encroachment.  Whether any of that will occur here in GA, who knows...



How many panther attacks have been reported in the South, ever?


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## Steve762us

Darkhorse said:


> Or maybe he couldn`t find a "wife", down here, to his likin`...
> 
> ...... I expect cougar girfriends are few and far between once he passes the turnpike or Ga. line.



Was he shot in a Holiday Inn parking lot?


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## shakey gizzard

Nicodemus said:


> How many panther attacks have been reported in the South, ever?



Theres at least one , but I never reported it! Some things are better left unsaid!


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## Steve762us

Nicodemus said:


> How many panther attacks have been reported in the South, ever?



No knowledge whatsoever.  I'll continue to do what I feel is prudent to protect myself and those I care for, for the risks I perceive, and you're welcome to do the same.


http://www.cougarinfo.org/lionsupl/hjellnow.htm


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## mountain cat

The man shot a cat! Not a big deal, the panther,puma,couger,painter,black panther,mountain lion, flordia panther whatever you want to call it has always been in georgia and always will be! Flordia cat georgia cat new mexico cat are all the same cat! There is not anything wrong with shooting them! Shoot and shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tullisfireball

dawg2 said:


> No danger?  Ever been out west?  They can be dangerous and have been known to attack and kill humans.



That is why when we lived in Montana, we carried a gun in the car because a lot of nights you may have to park the car and walk to the house, because of the snow and ice, and the mountain lions and wolves were hungry. Thank God we never saw one while we were on foot, but we did see a wolf run some deer across the road one afternoon.

When we move back to Montana, I will keep a gun in my car again, just in case of a hungry predator, wants a fat Georgia boy for a snack!


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## olcowman

mountain cat said:


> The man shot a cat! Not a big deal, the panther,puma,couger,painter,black panther,mountain lion, flordia panther whatever you want to call it has always been in georgia and always will be! Flordia cat georgia cat new mexico cat are all the same cat! There is not anything wrong with shooting them! Shoot and shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



What a moronic post. What are you 12 years old?


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## Dawgy_Daddy

This picture was taken in the area of Flint River WMA.


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## bigreddwon

Great picture! Was it taken with a trail cam?


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## Dawgy_Daddy

It was a trail cam, but it was sent to me via phone (poor quality).  It belongs to one of my crew members truck driver that hunts that area.


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## Dawgy_Daddy

skoonce said:


> It was a trail cam, but it was sent to me via phone (poor quality).  It belongs to one of my crew members truck driver that hunts that area.


At  least that is what I was told when the pic was sent to me.


----------



## olcowman

skoonce said:


> This picture was taken in the area of Flint River WMA.



Well shoot I got this same picture on my camera about two years ago and it was from Texas then? Just recently got it again saying its from the Upson/Meriwether county line.

Dang that cougar's done drug that deer a long ways?


----------



## Dawgy_Daddy

1. How did you get this pic on your camera unless you took the photo?

2. I have no way to approve or disapprove the validity of this pic.  I was just relaying what I was told as I just got the pic today.

3.  You can quit trying to be cute with the sarcasm.. It doesnt work..


----------



## olcowman

skoonce said:


> 1. How did you get this pic on your camera unless you took the photo?
> 
> 2. I have no way to approve or disapprove the validity of this pic.  I was just relaying what I was told as I just got the pic today.
> 
> 3.  You can quit trying to be cute with the sarcasm.. It doesnt work..



1. Somebody sent it to me

2. I wasn't questioning your convictions about posting the pic. It has already been discussed around this forum.

3. I don't need sarcasm to be cute. It just comes naturally for me.

4. Why are your panties in a wad? I aint trying to be mean to you about posting this pic. Besides I don't trust much of nothing that comes to me via my cell phone.


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## Throwback

Why is there a cursor on a picture taken by a trail camera sent by phone?

T


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## Throwback

balvarik said:


> And Ohio and Texas and Montana and Minnesota and Illinois and Wisconsin. .
> 
> http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?p=892354
> 
> Post # 12
> 
> 
> http://www.buckmanager.com/2009/05/21/mountain-lion-really-killed-this-whitetail/
> 
> 
> http://www.lake-link.com/boards/forums/viewposts.cfm?Thread_ID=75516
> 
> 
> 
> Mike





BUT BUT BUT BUT I Got it on my phone saying so, it MUST be from georgia.....

T


----------



## Dawgy_Daddy

Sorry guys, This was the first time I saw this pic.  Although I questioned the size of the cat at the time, and the fact that the rack on the deer looked like a Texas deer, I had no reason to not believe this guy.  With the debate going on about cougars in GA I thought Id share this cool pic with you.  Boy what was I thinking.  Ill know better next time , huh?


----------



## Steve762us

Forums can be...odd...sometimes.  Ten years from now, we'll probably all have a very different approach to how we interact on forums...<shrugs>.


----------



## Throwback

skoonce said:


> Sorry guys, This was the first time I saw this pic.  Although I questioned the size of the cat at the time, and the fact that the rack on the deer looked like a Texas deer, I had no reason to not believe this guy.  With the debate going on about cougars in GA I thought Id share this cool pic with you.  Boy what was I thinking.  Ill know better next time , huh?



Look at the ground in the pic. 


T


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## Dawgy_Daddy

yeh, it looks like the dried pond on the back side of my property.


----------



## MustangMAtt30

skoonce said:


> This picture was taken in the area of Flint River WMA.




Funny the ground in the pic looks like it is in desert out west and that sure don't look like a Georgia pine goat to me..........


----------



## Paddle

http://www.buckmanager.com/2009/05/21/mountain-lion-really-killed-this-whitetail/


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## olcowman

Paddle said:


> http://www.buckmanager.com/2009/05/21/mountain-lion-really-killed-this-whitetail/



Paddle thanks a million for posting that link. I been wandering what the story really was about this pic as I had heard about ten different tales over the past couple of years. I learned a couple of things, one is that them big cats is stout rascals and secondly, I need to figure out how to get enough money up to hunt out in west texas! Them are some nice looking racks, both the cougar's supper and them that show up in the other pictures.


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## Spotlite

skoonce said:


> This picture was taken in the area of Flint River WMA.



I got that text. One time it was from Talbot county, another text it was from South GA, another text from Screven County. That cat has drug that deer all over the state.


----------



## Throwback

Spotlite said:


> I got that text. One time it was from Talbot county, another text it was from South GA, another text from Screven County. That cat has drug that deer all over the state.



And it's headin straight for ya spot!


T


----------



## Spotlite

Throwback said:


> And it's headin straight for ya spot!
> 
> 
> T



Im gona kill him dead! And Im gona take his paws and claw my forearms up good! And when the paramedics come get me, Im gona scream dont bite me! I was in fear for my life


----------



## Throwback

Spotlite said:


> Im gona kill him dead! And Im gona take his paws and claw my forearms up good! And when the paramedics come get me, Im gona scream dont bite me! I was in fear for my life



Know how I know you're from Troup county? 

T


----------



## Spotlite

Throwback said:


> Know how I know you're from Troup county?
> 
> T



Going to school together might have given it away.........................but why


----------



## Nicodemus

Ya`ll reckon I could get that varmint in a croker sack, alive?


----------



## Spotlite

Nicodemus said:


> Ya`ll reckon I could get that varmint in a croker sack, alive?



I reckon you might.  But one of yall aint gona be happy when its all said and done


----------



## Nicodemus

Spotlite said:


> I reckon you might.  But one of yall aint gona be happy when its all said and done





I speck both of us wouldn`t be much for grinnin`, for a while, and I would probably need a wagon load of bandaids, rubbin` alchohol, and some good drinkin` whiskey to make me forget that foolishness.


----------



## Throwback

Nicodemus said:


> Ya`ll reckon I could get that varmint in a croker sack, alive?



well we almost had you one last year but it got out of spotlite's pen and some joker shot it. 

T


----------



## Nicodemus

Throwback said:


> well we almost had you one last year but it got out of spotlite's pen and some joker shot it.
> 
> T



I don`t know whether to laugh, or cry!


----------



## shortround1

shakey gizzard said:


> 2 year old male bald eagle, free to good home! Very patriotic but refuses to eat hooch trout!


yea, and when fried, taste like chicken.


----------



## albridges

From What I have heard the guy that shot the Florida panther did get charged by DNR. I was on the fence about them being here but proof is in the pudding. If he made all the up to where he was I guarantee there are more out there.


----------

