# Has anyone in GA petitioned wildlife to introduce elk into our northern regions?



## ringorock (Sep 15, 2019)

I've heard stories of elk being spotted in the uppermost parts of north GA, but has anyone attempt a request to establish a population here for future hunting? If not, think it'd be possible? I personally don't see why not. North Carolina's population is becoming quite the size and healthy. It'd also bring in more revenue for wildlife conservation and expansion. It'd also keep a good bit of revenue from leaving our state from people hunting in other states.


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

I think the days of trucking elk around are more or less over with the prevalence of / in the face of CWD at this point. At least I freaking hope so.

Pretty sure they were never so far south as north ga so it wouldn’t even be a reintroduction- so far as i know

They’d cost more in damage to people property than they’d bring in. Elk make a mess of things.


Your also making pretty big assumption about guys staying here to hunt- especially since reality would  be you’d never draw a tag or maybe draw once in lifetime. And even then  a lot of guys prefer to hunt them where they are more... I hate to say it but pressured. Where they don’t behave like winter range elk year round.


That said I’d like seeing them in Warwoman or Chattahoochee or blue ridge etc. I’d like to see taimen in the hooch too.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 15, 2019)

175rltw said:


> I think the days of trucking elk around are more or less over with the prevalence of / in the face of CWD at this point. At least I freaking hope so.
> 
> Pretty sure they were never so far south as north ga so it wouldn’t even be a reintroduction- so far as i know
> 
> ...




According to the archaeological record, elk were never in Georgia in historical times. There were a couple of bones found in a midden up close to the Tennessee line, and it`s thought to have come from a Tennessee kill. That midden was a couple of thousand years old. 

So, accordingly, elk, no. There were bison here though up till a couple of hundred years ago.


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

I’d prefer wood bison to hogs for sure.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 15, 2019)

175rltw said:


> I’d prefer wood bison to hogs for sure.




Actually, it was plains bison that were here. Wood bison are only native to Western Canada and Southern Alaska.


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

That’s (Ak) where I used to live. Thusly my familiarity.


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## ucfireman (Sep 15, 2019)

As big as the Blue ridge and Chattahoochee are I think there is still too much car traffic for it to be feasible. 
I do think it would be neat and I would support it, but don't believe it will ever happen. 
Ga is growing too fast as is most of the south east. I doubt that at this time NC would try it. They are growing fast too.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 15, 2019)

ucfireman said:


> As big as the Blue ridge and Chattahoochee are I think there is still too much car traffic for it to be feasible.
> I do think it would be neat and I would support it, but don't believe it will ever happen.
> Ga is growing too fast as is most of the south east. I doubt that at this time NC would try it. They are growing fast too.


NC already has a pretty good elk herd. The reintroduction happened nearly 20 years ago.


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

That’s the point. Managing what yall have from the reintroduction 20 years ago is- logistically- a different game than introducing them today.

There won’t ever be “real” elk hunting east of the Mississippi again. Especially considering how strictly / tightly they have to be managed to keep them where they want them


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 15, 2019)

Nicodemus said:


> According to the archaeological record, elk were never in Georgia in historical times. There were a couple of bones found in a midden up close to the Tennessee line, and it`s thought to have come from a Tennessee kill. That midden was a couple of thousand years old.
> 
> So, accordingly, elk, no. There were bison here though up till a couple of hundred years ago.


Funny that pretty much everything you read ans every range map you see indicates that they were present in at least the upper half of GA in historic times? William Bartram even mentioned seeing large numbers of buffalo and elk bones laying around a little above where Augusta is now.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 15, 2019)

175rltw said:


> I think the days of trucking elk around are more or less over with the prevalence of / in the face of CWD at this point. At least I freaking hope so.
> 
> Pretty sure they were never so far south as north ga so it wouldn’t even be a reintroduction- so far as i know
> 
> ...



That's why the reintroduction stopped in NC halfway through the process, it became illegal to transport cervids into NC due to CWD fears. They only released about fifty or sixty, when the plan was originally to introduce a lot more. They are thriving so far, though. 

And yep, they can be a problem. I live just a few miles from where they originally released them. A lot of farmers around here have suffered a lot of crop and hay damage, and have killed a bunch of elk for depredation. I've about hit elk with my truck a couple times over the years.


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## Raylander (Sep 15, 2019)

Won’t happen. Not enough land. Insurance companies run this state. The last thing they need is an even larger ungulate for drivers to run into. A deer will kill a car, an Elk could very easily kill the driver.


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## Unicoidawg (Sep 15, 2019)

GA DNR can't effectively manage the deer herd in the mountains for a various number of reasons. What in the world makes someone think they could do so with ELK?


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

I don’t see the big deal. Elk manage themselves pretty much. All they do is hang out around the Elk cameras and elk viewing roads.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 15, 2019)

175rltw said:


> I don’t see the big deal. Elk manage themselves pretty much. All they do is hang out around the Elk cameras and elk viewing roads.


Around here, most of them have hit the deep mountains. There are some that hang around, but most of them don't. They turned some loose from a herd that were used to people, and some that were very wild. The two batches and their offspring act very differently.


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## Big7 (Sep 15, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's why the reintroduction stopped in NC halfway through the process, it became illegal to transport cervids into NC due to CWD fears. They only released about fifty or sixty, when the plan was originally to introduce a lot more. They are thriving so far, though.
> 
> And yep, they can be a problem. I live just a few miles from where they originally released them. A lot of farmers around here have suffered a lot of crop and hay damage, and have killed a bunch of elk for depredation. I've about hit elk with my truck a couple times over the years.



I'll get to the reasons I oppose later.

Just curious Hillbilly, have you ever seen them? If so, was it a single or more than two together?


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## Nicodemus (Sep 15, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's why the reintroduction stopped in NC halfway through the process, it became illegal to transport cervids into NC due to CWD fears. They only released about fifty or sixty, when the plan was originally to introduce a lot more. They are thriving so far, though.
> 
> And yep, they can be a problem. I live just a few miles from where they originally released them. A lot of farmers around here have suffered a lot of crop and hay damage, and have killed a bunch of elk for depredation. I've about hit elk with my truck a couple times over the years.




I`ve read his writings too. If they were here, there should be signs. If wild turkey and small animal bones show up in middens, surely elk bones would.


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## Timberman (Sep 15, 2019)

It’s a good thought but where would they live? The high mountains can barely support a meager deer population much less animals like elk. They’d live down low in the settlements amongst cars, cows and people.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 15, 2019)

Timberman said:


> It’s a good thought but where would they live? The high mountains can barely support a meager deer population much less animals like elk. They’d live down low in the settlements amongst cars, cows and people.


Actually, they are thriving here in the WNC mountains where there is a very low deer population. I have seen elk and elk sign over 6,000' elevation many times. They live from the valleys to the tip-tops of the mountains. And are doing really well.


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## Timberman (Sep 15, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Actually, they are thriving here in the WNC mountains where there is a very low deer population. I have seen elk and elk sign over 6,000' elevation many times. They live from the valleys to the tip-tops of the mountains. And are doing really well.



What makes them more successful in marginal habitat than deer? Carrying capacity is finite so something has to give


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## ringorock (Sep 15, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Actually, they are thriving here in the WNC mountains where there is a very low deer population. I have seen elk and elk sign over 6,000' elevation many times. They live from the valleys to the tip-tops of the mountains. And are doing really well.



Yea, there's often elk blocking traffic from Maggie Valley to Cherokee, and they'd come from high up.


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## 175rltw (Sep 15, 2019)

Nothing. Elk do well about like deer do. Maybe not quite as prolific as whitetails but equally adapatable. And your talking about a way way smaller herd.  20 elk will make way way way more of an impact in an area than 20 whitetails will. Or even 100 whitetails. So you see a trail 2 cows and 2 calves have used twice and it looks **** near  like equipment made it- so those few elk make way more visible and copious sign than the whitetails. I don’t think the deer hunting in the hooch is a bad as they say. You go out into the middle of nowhere ina mature forest you are nothing. You go to a corridor they use you see deer and bears and everything else. Mountains are mostly empty everywhere. If I want to see 20 deer it isn’t where I go- but you always have a better chance at a 5 year old plus buck in the hooch than almost anywhere else in ga


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## ucfireman (Sep 15, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> NC already has a pretty good elk herd. The reintroduction happened nearly 20 years ago.


 
That's the point I was trying to make, the people population today compared to 20 yrs ago. I don't think NC would try it today. 
I did make it up there last year and plan again this year to see them. Neat having them somewhat close. 



Timberman said:


> What makes them more successful in marginal habitat than deer? Carrying capacity is finite so something has to give



I would guess they are better at defending babies against bears being so much larger.


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## lampern (Sep 15, 2019)

NC didn't release the elk.

The National Park Service did.

Elk are not proteced in Ga. You can shoot any elk that wanders in from TN or NC.


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Sep 15, 2019)

They have crossed the Mountain over to Townsend and Wears Valley there have been several sightings over there recently. I expect they will be comman place in Cades Cove in a few years if left alone.


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## Throwback (Sep 15, 2019)

lampern said:


> NC didn't release the elk.
> 
> The National Park Service did.
> 
> Elk are not proteced in Ga. You can shoot any elk that wanders in from TN or NC.



So we can hunt them over bait?


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## Hooked On Quack (Sep 15, 2019)

Throwback said:


> So we can hunt them over bait?




While wearing a hat ??


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 16, 2019)

Big7 said:


> I'll get to the reasons I oppose later.
> 
> Just curious Hillbilly, have you ever seen them? If so, was it a single or more than two together?


Elk? I see them all the time. Very frequently. Anywhere from one by itself to herds of 15-20 or more. I've came close to whacking a couple with my truck over the years. There was a big bull in my neighbor's cow pasture a couple years ago.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 16, 2019)

ucfireman said:


> That's the point I was trying to make, the people population today compared to 20 yrs ago. I don't think NC would try it today.
> I did make it up there last year and plan again this year to see them. Neat having them somewhat close.
> 
> 
> ...


The difference in western NC and the rest of the state is that in many counties, over half the land is public land instead of private. There are millions of acres of national park, national forest, state forests, wilderness areas, and state-owned game lands here. My county is at least half public land. 

The two main problems that elk face here are bear predation on calves, and brainworm parasites contracted from deer.


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## transfixer (Sep 16, 2019)

worleyburd86 said:


> Won’t happen. Not enough land. Insurance companies run this state. The last thing they need is an even larger ungulate for drivers to run into. A deer will kill a car, an Elk could very easily kill the driver.



    This ^^^^^

    The automobile insurance companies have too much power with our state legislature,  they already would like for deer to be on the endangered species list, they are the reason we have a 12 deer limit, and doe days that run season long in most of the state ,   there is no way they will let the state start a population of elk,  even if the mountains could support them ?  which I seriously doubt,  the mountains here have become too developed,  too many people building cabin communities and such,   there isn't enough browse and food in the Ga mountains to sustain a good deer population,  and elk I would image have to eat more each day than deer do,   so I don't see how it would be possible


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## Throwback (Sep 16, 2019)

Hooked On Quack said:


> While wearing a hat ??



With a crossbow ?


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 17, 2019)

Throwback said:


> With a crossbow ?


Just stay away from the property line.


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## lampern (Sep 17, 2019)

Are elk a species of deer? If so, they might actually be  a game animal



> (34) "Game animals" means the following animals: bear, bobcat, *deer,* fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, sea turtles and their eggs, squirrel, cougar (Felis concolor), and all members of the families Alligatoridae and Crocodylidae.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 17, 2019)

lampern said:


> Are elk a species of deer? If so, they might actually be  a game animal



(34) "Game animals" means the following animals: bear, bobcat, *deer,* fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, sea turtles and their eggs, squirrel, cougar (Felis concolor), and all members of the families Alligatoridae and Crocodylidae.


What point are you trying to make with this?


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 17, 2019)

lampern said:


> Are elk a species of deer? If so, they might actually be  a game animal



Yes, they are a species of deer but that doesn't have any bearing on the law you quoted since elk are specified under the definition of farmed deer.  From a legal standpoint an elk in Georgia is an escaped farmed deer and may be killed.  You already know this since we've had this same discussion before.


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## lampern (Sep 17, 2019)

I just always assumed deer was defined as specifically white tailed deer.


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## elfiii (Sep 17, 2019)

transfixer said:


> This ^^^^^
> 
> The automobile insurance companies have too much power with our state legislature,  they already would like for deer to be on the endangered species list, they are the reason we have a 12 deer limit, and doe days that run season long in most of the state ,



No, they aren't the reason for the 12 deer limit and doe days that run season long in most of the state.


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## transfixer (Sep 17, 2019)

elfiii said:


> No, they aren't the reason for the 12 deer limit and doe days that run season long in most of the state.



   Maybe not the doe days,  because the DNR still has control over that,  but the legislature sets the bag limits, and the representatives on that committee might as well be in the pockets of State Farm, Allstate and Progressive.


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## transfixer (Sep 17, 2019)

elfiii said:


> No, they aren't the reason for the 12 deer limit and doe days that run season long in most of the state.



   This was discussed in this thread a good ways back,  unfortunately the links that backed up insurance companies involvement no longer work.  but there was proof at that time

http://forum.gon.com/threads/deer-limits-and-insurance-companies.570964/


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 17, 2019)

transfixer said:


> Maybe not the doe days,  because the DNR still has control over that,  but the legislature sets the bag limits, and the representatives on that committee might as well be in the pockets of State Farm, Allstate and Progressive.



The legislature returned control of the bag limit to DNR earlier this year.


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## 175rltw (Sep 17, 2019)

I sure would like to see harvest managed across zones or districts across the state- either within the confines of a statewide limit or instead of it.


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## Sixes (Sep 17, 2019)

We had elk around the Sixes community for a few weeks in the late 90s, maybe early 2000s


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 18, 2019)

175rltw said:


> I sure would like to see harvest managed across zones or districts across the state- either within the confines of a statewide limit or instead of it.



We've been doing that with either-sex days, they are managed regionally.


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## transfixer (Sep 18, 2019)

C.Killmaster said:


> The legislature returned control of the bag limit to DNR earlier this year.



    Great !   its about time !


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## 175rltw (Sep 18, 2019)

C.Killmaster said:


> We've been doing that with either-sex days, they are managed regionally.



Yeah- that’s true. I’m honestly more or less satisfied with bag limits and the efforts utilized to help distribute pressure on the public land in north ga. I would like to see that no more than 2 of your 12 deer come from public land north of 52 or maybe 60. Instead of how it sits now where most of them don’t even count against your 12. I’m not real happy with how the Forest is being neglected but even then I know there’s been some logging done.  I know  whenever I put any effort in at all i see deer in the CNF whether or not I shoot one is about like anywhere else- maybe maybe not. I almost always shoot or try to the first legal elk I encounter but not so much with deer


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## spurrs and racks (Sep 23, 2019)

ringorock said:


> I've heard stories of elk being spotted in the uppermost parts of north GA, but has anyone attempt a request to establish a population here for future hunting? If not, think it'd be possible? I personally don't see why not. North Carolina's population is becoming quite the size and healthy. It'd also bring in more revenue for wildlife conservation and expansion. It'd also keep a good bit of revenue from leaving our state from people hunting in other states.



What was seen, Maybe or maybe not seen, was an Elk that escaped from some high fenced property. Now, I cannot get into the legalities of shooting one. But I can tell you this without recall. The Ga. DNR is NOT for the introduction of wild Elk in the state of Georgia.

The few (2) people I knew who had a few Elk had to keep them high fenced and I don't think either one has any Elk anymore. So, there is a reason for that also.

C. Killmaster has certainly responded in this thread about this topic.

Eastern Kentucky has reintroduced a wild Elk population, getting a permit is lottery and difficult.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 23, 2019)

spurrs and racks said:


> What was seen, Maybe or maybe not seen, was an Elk that escaped from some high fenced property. Now, I cannot get into the legalities of shooting one. But I can tell you this without recall. The Ga. DNR is NOT for the introduction of wild Elk in the state of Georgia.
> 
> The few (2) people I knew who had a few Elk had to keep them high fenced and I don't think either one has any Elk anymore. So, there is a reason for that also.
> 
> ...


TN has elk hunting too, now., and I'm guessing that within the next five years, NC will have a few tags. I notice they are listed as game animals in NC this year for the first time.


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## ringorock (Sep 23, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> TN has elk hunting too, now., and I'm guessing that within the next five years, NC will have a few tags. I notice they are listed as game animals in NC this year for the first time.


Yea, I saw that for NC too. I knew about TN and KY, but I imagine getting pulled would be tough. So much for GA elk hunting.


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 23, 2019)

175rltw said:


> Nothing. Elk do well about like deer do. Maybe not quite as prolific as whitetails but equally adapatable. And your talking about a way way smaller herd.  20 elk will make way way way more of an impact in an area than 20 whitetails will. Or even 100 whitetails. So you see a trail 2 cows and 2 calves have used twice and it looks **** near  like equipment made it- so those few elk make way more visible and copious sign than the whitetails. I don’t think the deer hunting in the hooch is a bad as they say. You go out into the middle of nowhere ina mature forest you are nothing. You go to a corridor they use you see deer and bears and everything else. Mountains are mostly empty everywhere. If I want to see 20 deer it isn’t where I go- but you always have a better chance at a 5 year old plus buck in the hooch than almost anywhere else in ga


This guy clearly never experienced or researched mtn hunting in the 80s. Those barren mountains had an abundance of deer


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## lampern (Sep 23, 2019)

NC set a cost of 1000 dollars for a nonresident to hunt elk


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## ucfireman (Sep 27, 2019)

I went Elk looking over the past few days. I went to Tennessee and spoke to a man from Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation that helped get their herd started and helps with the property management. He said they have between 500-800 depending on who you ask. And in an area that is not all that huge. I think the Cohutta and Blue Ridge would be larger. 
He did say they would love to help and wish Ga would consider.  He is with  C.O.R.A too.
Also went to Ky to see what they say is the largest herd east of the Mississippi. Could not find any but was assured they are there. Did see they have wild horses and apparently wild gloats there too. The areas do not look attractive but I guess they have enough to eat, they say the survival rate for the young is 80-90% and the herd is growing. I read around 7-8000  (don't know if that is statewide or just that area (Harlan and the rest of coal country))and they have a pretty decent hunt every year. 
I will say the experience was much more up close at Cataloochee.


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