# With Daytona



## RacinNut (Feb 9, 2016)

Only a few days away, I am having trouble understanding this "charter system"  for Cup and why NA$CAR needs it,  I am a forever racinut, and have listened to Kyle, Tommy Baldwin, and BF, telling me how good the "charter system" is for racing, I thought the racing has always been good, and all the Cup owners and drivers were making plenty of money.   
I hope Tony Stewart #14 can recover enough and come back and finish his final season.  I also hope the weather is good in Daytona for Speedweeks and nobody gets hurt.
GO #2 for the 500.


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## riprap (Feb 9, 2016)

I just read up on it and I don't understand much either. I guess these teams are guaranteed a start in the race no matter what. Another thing it does is make it impossible (probably was already) for a new team to come in and compete unless they have the money of Donald Trump. People complain about the racing at times as I do but this another step to make it worse. It will further widen the gap between the money teams. NASCAR was at its best when the drivers and teams needed that high finishing paycheck to make ends meet. This is another step to make it easier for the teams already in NASCAR to compete financially. All they basically need to worry about getting a sponsor. They can buy they engines and chassis from other teams to go fast enough not to get ran over. The sponsors are the ones that need to wise up.


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## specialk (Feb 10, 2016)

the way I understand it(and I maybe wrong) is it's as close to a franchise type business model as they can get, and there is no initial buy-in .  before if a team like tommy Baldwin racing(TBR) couldn't find sponsers or funding the only thing they had was maybe the building and what tools were in there as value of the race team. Now they have a ''charter'' that they can sell(or lease) to the highest bidder.  Of course the value won't be published, but last night on racehub they said mikey was selling his to gibbs and stew.hass for probably in the upper single digit millions each.  Andy Petree said when he closed down his team years ago due to lack of sponsors he got 10 cents on the dollar for all his equipment at auction.  

They are cutting back the field to 40 cars.  36 are guaranteed with their charters, the other 4 will make it in on qualifying speed.


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## Nugefan (Feb 10, 2016)

specialk said:


> the way I understand it(and I maybe wrong) is it's as close to a franchise type business model as they can get, and there is no initial buy-in .  before if a team like tommy Baldwin racing(TBR) couldn't find sponsers or funding the only thing they had was maybe the building and what tools were in there as value of the race team. Now they have a ''charter'' that they can sell(or lease) to the highest bidder.  Of course the value won't be published, but last night on racehub they said mikey was selling his to gibbs and stew.hass for probably in the upper single digit millions each.  Andy Petree said when he closed down his team years ago due to lack of sponsors he got 10 cents on the dollar for all his equipment at auction.
> 
> They are cutting back the field to 40 cars.  36 are guaranteed with their charters, the other 4 will make it in on qualifying speed.



that's the way I understand it too , to , two ....


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## riprap (Feb 10, 2016)

specialk said:


> the way I understand it(and I maybe wrong) is it's as close to a franchise type business model as they can get, and there is no initial buy-in .  before if a team like tommy Baldwin racing(TBR) couldn't find sponsers or funding the only thing they had was maybe the building and what tools were in there as value of the race team. Now they have a ''charter'' that they can sell(or lease) to the highest bidder.  Of course the value won't be published, but last night on racehub they said mikey was selling his to gibbs and stew.hass for probably in the upper single digit millions each.  Andy Petree said when he closed down his team years ago due to lack of sponsors he got 10 cents on the dollar for all his equipment at auction.
> 
> They are cutting back the field to 40 cars.  36 are guaranteed with their charters, the other 4 will make it in on qualifying speed.



Didn't understand cutting it back 3 cars. That could at least give a start up team a glimmer of hope. I guess nascar really does know that only about 10 to 15 cars actually have a prayer of winning a race.


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## RacinNut (Feb 10, 2016)

Thanks for the input, that's bout the way I had it figured, just a whole lot to do about nothing as far as the normal fan goes hopefully the racing with be just as good as always.  I think theres way to much media coverage and most of the talking heads are just saying what NA$CAR will let them say and don't know whats going on anyway, I do like the scanner portions on the shows, and I always remember when the green flag drops the CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored stops.


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## riprap (Feb 10, 2016)

RacinNut said:


> Thanks for the input, that's bout the way I had it figured, just a whole lot to do about nothing as far as the normal fan goes hopefully the racing with be just as good as always.  I think theres way to much media coverage and most of the talking heads are just saying what NA$CAR will let them say and don't know whats going on anyway, I do like the scanner portions on the shows, and I always remember when the green flag drops the CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored stops.



Nascar on Fox is like MSNBC is to democrats. They will never throw the bread and butter under the bus.


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## skeeter24 (Feb 10, 2016)

riprap said:


> Didn't understand cutting it back 3 cars. That could at least give a start up team a glimmer of hope. I guess nascar really does know that only about 10 to 15 cars actually have a prayer of winning a race.



The more "freebie" spots they allow the more it devalues the individual charter. 

I know that they raced for the last 3 years but MWR folded shop and no longer exists.  Don't believe Rob should have been allowed to get 2 that he could sell.....guess the 41 and 19 teams are glad though.


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## skeeter24 (Feb 10, 2016)

I will be in Daytona for the Duels through the 500....will be interesting to see if this Daytona Rising project is as awesome as they claim it to be.

Anybody else going down?


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## KyDawg (Feb 10, 2016)

Spec engines are next. They trucks are going that direction this year.


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## riprap (Feb 10, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Spec engines are next. They trucks are going that direction this year.



Won't be long until Nascar loads up 40 cars and brings them to the track. The teams currently building chassis and engines will be paid directly by nascar to build by nascar's specs. On Thursday teams can slap their sponsors on there. Only adjustments made will be air pressure, wedge, springs, track bar...most things that can be done on a pit stop.


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## KyDawg (Feb 10, 2016)

I believe one thing this charter deal does is give NASCAR a lot more power over the competitors. Tow the line or we will pull your charter.


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## riprap (Feb 10, 2016)

I thought you could only have four teams. SHR and JGR just bought a charter team each from MWR. I'm sure they won't share any info. 

Does this give Hendrick 9?


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## specialk (Feb 10, 2016)

riprap said:


> I thought you could only have four teams. SHR and JGR just bought a charter team each from MWR. I'm sure they won't share any info.
> 
> Does this give Hendrick 9?



they went back to 2013....kurt won't in the stable...neither was flipper carl......


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## specialk (Feb 10, 2016)

RacinNut said:


> as far as the normal fan goes hopefully the racing with be just as good as always. .



this....


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## specialk (Feb 10, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> I believe one thing this charter deal does is give NASCAR a lot more power over the competitors. Tow the line or we will pull your charter.



they pulled one of gibbs drivers out last year rather easy....without a charter....nothing changed really except now the ''team'' has more $$$ value than just equipment and a garage....


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## specialk (Feb 10, 2016)

skeeter24 said:


> I will be in Daytona for the Duels through the 500....will be interesting to see if this Daytona Rising project is as awesome as they claim it to be.
> 
> Anybody else going down?



have fun man!, be sure and post back and let us know how things are going down there....i'll be at AMS for the folds of honor the following week....


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## tcward (Feb 10, 2016)

riprap said:


> Won't be long until Nascar loads up 40 cars and brings them to the track. The teams currently building chassis and engines will be paid directly by nascar to build by nascar's specs. On Thursday teams can slap their sponsors on there. Only adjustments made will be air pressure, wedge, springs, track bar...most things that can be done on a pit stop.



Yep...remember the IROC series?....


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## caughtinarut (Feb 10, 2016)

Does anyone watch NASCAR anymore?


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## riprap (Feb 10, 2016)

I still do. I don't plan my day around it but... I'll watch if the weather is bad. I try to follow on the radio, but the closest radio station to carry it is in carrollton and reception is poor. Pretty sad for a town that has a race track with its name on it.


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## specialk (Feb 11, 2016)

caughtinarut said:


> Does anyone watch NASCAR anymore?



I do....and i'll attend at least 6 races this year too.....


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## tell sackett (Feb 11, 2016)

The Heltons killed nascar years ago.


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## Lukikus2 (Feb 11, 2016)

All brand new facilities and consession stands, escataltors to top concourses, wider seats and you won't get wet under the stands if it rains. Just hope the bill isn't passed to us buying food and drink. I'll be over if the schedule works out. Nothing like watching cars zoom by at 200 mph.


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## nickel back (Feb 12, 2016)

what a joke nascar has become....*I'm sure they are Berni voters*.


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## jcountry (Feb 12, 2016)

I used to be really into NASCAR.

I am falling farther and farther into the "I don't care"  category every year.

The fact that they (still) won't race in the rain is irritating.   The continuous rules changes and idiotic cautions they throw for no reason (when they don't like who might be winning) really started to kill it for me.

The banning of the confederate flag as a knee jerk politically correct response to nothing did it for me.   I care less and less.   I definitely won't go to the race anymore.   I just refuse to financially support that kind of nonsense.


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## specialk (Feb 12, 2016)

jcountry said:


> I used to be really into NASCAR.
> 
> I am falling farther and farther into the "I don't care"  category every year.
> 
> ...



Nascar has never banned the Confederate flag.....they've never banned any flag for that matter......


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## chocolate dog (Feb 12, 2016)

specialk said:


> Nascar has never banned the Confederate flag.....they've never banned any flag for that matter......



Dont try and bring facts into this discussion    these boys wont have none of that.


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## RacinNut (Feb 12, 2016)

Waitin for 5PM today, the Cup cars hit the track for the Unlimited practice.  I watch or listen to bout all the Cup races, and Xfinity, and Trucks, I am a RacinNut, getting too old to make many in person, but still go to Atlanta, Bristol, Talledega, and Darlington.   One season, I believe it was 1983 I went to 18 Cup races and a lot of the Busch or ARCA that were run the same week-end.  Yes I think theres too many rules I don't agree with, but to me NA$CAR is the best sport going, only Cams we have are in the motors.


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## specialk (Feb 12, 2016)

chocolate dog said:


> Dont try and bring facts into this discussion    these boys wont have none of that.



I do know what he meant, they did ask fans politely not to display it.  They also offered to exchange any Confederate flag for a American flag.  I display both, as well as a #88 Nationwide flag


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## specialk (Feb 12, 2016)

RacinNut said:


> Waitin for 5PM today, the Cup cars hit the track for the Unlimited practice.  I watch or listen to bout all the Cup races, and Xfinity, and Trucks, I am a RacinNut, getting too old to make many in person, but still go to Atlanta, Bristol, Talledega, and Darlington.   One season, I believe it was 1983 I went to 18 Cup races and a lot of the Busch or ARCA that were run the same week-end.  Yes I think theres too many rules I don't agree with, but to me NA$CAR is the best sport going, only Cams we have are in the motors.



about sums it up for me RN....


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## nickel back (Feb 12, 2016)

Fact is nascar=suckcar....

and to think I use to rush home on Sundays so I could watch it.

NASCAR sucks


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## Matthew6 (Feb 12, 2016)

nickel back said:


> Fact is nascar=suckcar....
> 
> and to think I use to rush home on Sundays so I could watch it.
> 
> NASCAR sucks


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## riprap (Feb 12, 2016)

nickel back said:


> what a joke nascar has become....*I'm sure they are Berni voters*.



Definitely not. They are more the establishment. There is no room for any outside competition to join in. Just like Donald Trump, you better have your own money and plenty of it. The good ole boys now can just worry about getting a sponsor. They can make ends meet by finishing last. If you like the teams out front now, you enjoy nascar. The gap widens between the have and have nots.


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## srb (Feb 12, 2016)

*Agree......*



riprap said:


> Definitely not. They are more the establishment. There is no room for any outside competition to join in. Just like Donald Trump, you better have your own money and plenty of it. The good ole boys now can just worry about getting a sponsor. They can make ends meet by finishing last. If you like the teams out front now, you enjoy nascar. The gap widens between the have and have nots.



Four very strong teams:::
HMS
JGR
PR
SHS

-------------
Rcr
RFR
GSK
That's about it:::...:::


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## KyDawg (Feb 13, 2016)

I loved the sport at one time and went to a lot of races going back over 50 years. I do not recognize the sport I loved. Nothing wrong with people enjoying the way it is now. I no longer even watch it on TV.


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## srb (Feb 13, 2016)

Maybe the race tonight might be lil fun...


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## toyota4x4h (Feb 13, 2016)

There's more ppl at a vandy football game than I see in these stands lol.


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## riprap (Feb 13, 2016)

I bet the Stewart hass body shop is a skyscraper.


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## riprap (Feb 13, 2016)

They are using aluminum foil for the sheet metal this year.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 13, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> I'm remembering why I don't watch nascar it's pretty stale.



Yep. Like watching paint dry


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## riprap (Feb 13, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> We sold out every home game this year I doubt there's 102k there tonight nice deflect though.
> 
> I'm remembering why I don't watch nascar it's pretty stale.



I agree attendance is down, but do you think UT would sell out an exhibition game. Also do you think they would sell out if they played at a different area of the country every week?


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## toyota4x4h (Feb 13, 2016)

Come on rip they had over 50k for the orange and white game last year or the year before. There was prolly 10k tops there tonight. For Daytona. Didn't every race used to sell out not that many years back? 

And why don't they let them race to the line anymore smh. Also rip I havnt seen cars break apart like that other than f1 those things were falling apart running through the grass.


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## toyota4x4h (Feb 13, 2016)

Uga prolly puts 50k for their g day. You'd think racing fans would go to of all places Daytona to watch em run even if it's just practice.


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## Howard Roark (Feb 14, 2016)

All of you should join our league. 

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=863246


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## mecicon (Feb 14, 2016)

I have been disillusioned since the "Chase" playoffs were introduced. If you're going to tell 27 +/- teams you have no chance of winning "you are only here to fulfill sponsor obligations" and there is a chance you could affect the race by wrecking another team's car. 

What could go wrong?


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## mguthrie (Feb 14, 2016)

Chase elliot on pole. I know it's hard to "fix" such things but it seems that a "new" driver/team has won the pole more often the last several years. Austin Dillon's first try, Danica's debut


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## riprap (Feb 14, 2016)

mguthrie said:


> Chase elliot on pole. I know it's hard to "fix" such things but it seems that a "new" driver/team has won the pole more often the last several years. Austin Dillon's first try, Danica's debut



A lot of people predicted that.


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## riprap (Feb 14, 2016)

toyota4x4h said:


> Uga prolly puts 50k for their g day. You'd think racing fans would go to of all places Daytona to watch em run even if it's just practice.



I'd imagine most uga and ut fans live within an hour of their stadiums. Are fans suppose to take two weeks off work to watch an exhibition and the real race next week?


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## KyDawg (Feb 14, 2016)

Wood Brothers did not get a Charter.


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## toyota4x4h (Feb 14, 2016)

riprap said:


> I'd imagine most uga and ut fans live within an hour of their stadiums. Are fans suppose to take two weeks off work to watch an exhibition and the real race next week?



Yeah you're prolly right. But you'd think if you really loved nascar you'd be at Daytona of all places. When I was a kid even the qualifying seemed to be pretty packed. Went to Daytona in 91 and have a pic of a pretty packed house during qualifying.


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## mguthrie (Feb 14, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Wood Brothers did not get a Charter.



I heard that today during qualifying. Because they haven't ran a full schedule in many years


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## NE GA Pappy (Feb 14, 2016)

I use to watch/listen/go to every race.  I wouldn't drive 5 miles to see one now, if the tickets and the hotdogs were free.


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## srb (Feb 14, 2016)

Another rookie p1


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## KyDawg (Feb 14, 2016)

It is people like the Wood Brothers that I miss. The characters were part and parcel of the sport for me. Guys like Harry Hyde, Smokey Yunick, Ray Fox, Banjo Matthews, Maurice Petty, Suitcase Jake Elder. And that list don't really include any Drivers.


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## KyDawg (Feb 14, 2016)

Speaking of Daytona did they even have the Busch Clash or whatever they called it lately?


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## mguthrie (Feb 15, 2016)

The shootout was sat. evening. Arca ran earlier in the day. The duels are thurs. Trucks race fri and nationwide cars Saturday bo$$


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## specialk (Feb 15, 2016)

mguthrie said:


> Chase elliot on pole. I know it's hard to "fix" such things but it seems that a "new" driver/team has won the pole more often the last several years. Austin Dillon's first try, Danica's debut



that car and team that chase got the pole with was on the pole last year too, but with a different driver....


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 16, 2016)

Nascar has officially died


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## specialk (Feb 16, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Nascar has officially died



by ''died'', do you mean sellout?

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2016/2/16/daytona-sells-out-stadium-for-500.html


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## creekrunner (Feb 16, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Nascar has officially died



We get it , you don't like Nascar. Why even post?


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## chocolate dog (Feb 16, 2016)

specialk said:


> by ''died'', do you mean sellout?
> 
> http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2016/2/16/daytona-sells-out-stadium-for-500.html



#GO88


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 16, 2016)

creekrunner said:


> We get it , you don't like Nascar. Why even post?



No, I love Nascar. This joke they have going on now isn't racing. Women and charters and such.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 16, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> No, I love Nascar. This joke they have going on now isn't racing. Women and charters and such.



This! I've been to over a dozen tracks and love Nascar. What this has turned into is more of a reality tv show..


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## specialk (Feb 16, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> No, I love Nascar. This joke they have going on now isn't racing. Women and charters and such.





Browning Slayer said:


> This! I've been to over a dozen tracks and love Nascar. What this has turned into is more of a reality tv show..



prayers sent.......


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## nickel back (Feb 16, 2016)

Browning Slayer said:


> This! I've been to over a dozen tracks and love Nascar. What this has turned into is more of a reality tv show..



Right there with WWE......


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## skeeter24 (Feb 17, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Women and charters and such.



Women have raced in the top level Nascar series since its inception in 1949.  Most only had a few starts until Janet Guthrie had 33 starts in 1976.

Over history there have always been ways to buy or guarantee spots based on champions provisional, points standings. etc.  I recall in 2000 when DW bought his way into the Coke 600 buy paying Carl Long after DW failed to qualify.

Nascar has done a lot to draw my ire in the last decade but this one is not too bad for me and may actually draw more big money investors into the sport.  I wish they would have only issued 32 and left 8 spots open but....oh well.


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## KyDawg (Feb 17, 2016)

One of the Flock brothers drove with a monkey in his car. Women are not new to Nascar, but they are such a small minority in the past they were bout as rare as that Monkey in the car. Danica has had good equipment and she is a total side show. She has hit more people than Mohammed Ali and would have lasted bout 3 weeks in the old days.


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## KyDawg (Feb 17, 2016)

Nascar is a shadow of what it used to be.


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## riprap (Feb 17, 2016)

KyDawg said:


> Nascar is a shadow of what it used to be.



"We had a good day, top 15." That statement in itself should tell you something. 

Like I said before the hardest things these charter teams have to do is find a sponsor. Richard Petty is getting them from the Petty name. His cars don't have a chance to win except for the crap shoot restrictor plate tracks. 

Owners can buy enough equipment from the 4 championship contending teams to not get blown off the track. There is no room in the sport for a grass roots organization to come in and compete.

I'll be surprised if there is a car on the track tomorrow who isn't already qualified to race in the Daytona 500.


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## srb (Feb 18, 2016)

Wild finish in Thursday  night Duels...


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## riprap (Feb 18, 2016)

Do it Kyle Busch!


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## mguthrie (Feb 19, 2016)

skeeter24 said:


> Women have raced in the top level Nascar series since its inception in 1949.  Most only had a few starts until Janet Guthrie had 33 starts in 1976.
> 
> Over history there have always been ways to buy or guarantee spots based on champions provisional, points standings. etc.  I recall in 2000 when DW bought his way into the Coke 600 buy paying Carl Long after DW failed to qualify.
> 
> Nascar has done a lot to draw my ire in the last decade but this one is not too bad for me and may actually draw more big money investors into the sport.  I wish they would have only issued 32 and left 8 spots open but....oh well.


This^^^^. Aunt Janet rocks


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## mguthrie (Feb 19, 2016)

So does uncle arlo and grandpap woody


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## fullstrut (Feb 19, 2016)

Boring! Nascar died with Earnhardt Sr. Haven't watched a race in years. What a Joke! It's dead no doubt. Sad but true.


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## Walker44 (Feb 20, 2016)

Article clearly said  RESERVE STADIUM SEATS are sold out   That does not constitute a STADIUM SELL OUT    site says Tickets are still on sale


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## mguthrie (Feb 21, 2016)

You would be correct walker. NASCAR doesn't sell out entire races very often any more. I lot of that has to do with high ticket prices and the down turn in the economy. Most nascar fans are working class folks and can't afford to go to the race. The only one I could afford to go to is Atlanta but I don't care to fight the traffic. You can see it better on TV. The product they put on the track is a far cry from what it used to be but there are a lot of folks that like it. I'll continue to watch until it goes to pay per view. Then I'll be done. Congrats to chase for the xfinity win


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

I hope they continue with this concert and cancel the race. This is awesome.


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## tcward (Feb 21, 2016)

Anybody else notice that Nasal Gordon is a terrible announcer?


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

They are breaking from the commercials to show a little bit of the race.


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## deerhuntingdawg (Feb 21, 2016)

So far the most boring Daytona I've ever watched


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## tcward (Feb 21, 2016)

JR is gone! Mass exit now!


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

tcward said:


> JR is gone! Mass exit now!



That one guy going to commit suicide. Danica still running strong...


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

Dang it's over for my girl.


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## tcward (Feb 21, 2016)

riprap said:


> Dang it's over for my girl.



Good...


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

Toyota domination. Hendrick needs to regroup.


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

Toyota has always had great muscle cars and drivers.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 21, 2016)

riprap said:


> Dang it's over for my girl.



Where did we finish Rip?


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

SpotandStalk said:


> Where did we finish Rip?



In the garage....


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

Body shop


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 21, 2016)

Dadgum.

I reckon somebody ran us in the wall again. Rookies


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## Matthew6 (Feb 21, 2016)

go chase.


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## Lukikus2 (Feb 21, 2016)

No backstretch seats anymore? I hope Dega' don't follow that lead. They are advertising Altanta tickets next weekend for $39. Daytona could have filled the backstretch at that price too...


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## riprap (Feb 21, 2016)

I hope QT sends me some free tickets on my app for next Sunday.


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## srb (Feb 21, 2016)

#Nojgr
I was pulling for 22/4:::


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## nickel back (Feb 22, 2016)




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## specialk (Feb 22, 2016)

Lukikus2 said:


> No backstretch seats anymore? I hope Dega' don't follow that lead...



uh, Daytona followed dega's lead.....actually the same company owns both tracks.....dega's backstretch seating  is used for media and  tv cameras.....


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## riprap (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm with Hillary, Danica deserves to make as much as Denny!


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 22, 2016)

Nice avy ^^^


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## bullgator (Feb 22, 2016)

riprap said:


> I'm with Hillary, Danica deserves to make as much as Denny!



Then she needs to do the same job as well as Denny.

Gooooo #11


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## riprap (Feb 22, 2016)

bullgator said:


> Then she needs to do the same job as well as Denny.
> 
> Gooooo #11



Denny wins, so it's easy for FedEx to jump on board. Just think of the work it took to talk Natures Bakery to sponsor.


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## riprap (Feb 23, 2016)




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