# Questions about cap and ball revolvers



## olchevy (Dec 11, 2009)

Ok I recently got into blackpowder. Today was the first time I have got a chance to shoot my CVA 1858 navy .31 and man was that thing a blast! I think I might have just been bitten by that bug. but this bug causes me to ask three questions.

1)How in depth do I have to do on the cleaning? As of now I completly dissassymble it springs trigger everything clean it in the hot soapy water, then put it in the oven for 15mins relube while still hot then lube as i put back together. Is this nessesary each time? How much cleaning is trully needed or is it this in depth? I want to keep them forever so if that in depth is needed it is no problem by me they are so fun to shoot!

2) I would like to get one to use for hunting deer at VERY close ranges, and from what i understand i need a .44.
I have been looking into the Uberti New army .44 it said you can load up 60g of powder! So is uberti a really good brand, price is within reason?

3) after looking at the manual online for my revolver it said for target load 7g and max at 14g
I loaded 7g but it left to much space and I could hear the "double fire". so affter looking online I saw that one can use cornmeal as a filler, so I did. With 7g of pyrodex fffg and 4g of cornmeal and hornadys balls out at twenty-five yards I could easily hit coke cans( I had them in a row and shot all of them down and didnt miss a one!), and at 50 yards I could consistintley hit a milk jug. I have always heard people say that past 20 yards or so accuracy is a term not to be used with cap and ball revolvers, but today MY FIRST TIME EVER SHOOTING BLACKPOWDER it always hit exaclty where i aimed(albeit the hammer as a rear sight is very crude, but it obviously works). So was I just lucky with my used revolver or are these "People" wrong, or am I just that good?


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## redneckcamo (Dec 11, 2009)

sounds like you had a blast man !! 

and yes it needs to be cleaned everytime real good if your using pyrodex because the fouling literally draws humidity in an corrosion will start quickly and cause damage if not properly cleaned as soon as possible ...

uberti makes a good pistol but if you could get you paws on a ruger old army you would have probably the best cap-n-ball ever made IMO.!!


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## fishdog (Dec 11, 2009)

1) Take it apart and clean it every time.

2) Uburti makes a good pistol. .44 is legal to hunt with, good luck.

3) That pistol is shooting about as good as you are going to get with the sites you have. I have had bad luck with pyrodex gumming up in my revolver, Goex fffg works better for me.

You did not mention using lube on top of the balls to prevent chain firing. You may want to do this if you are not doing it already.


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## olchevy (Dec 11, 2009)

fishdog said:


> 1) Take it apart and clean it every time.
> 
> 2) Uburti makes a good pistol. .44 is legal to hunt with, good luck.
> 
> ...



yep good ol butter flavored crisco...lol

on a side note I have also been looking into the .50 cal single shot flintlock pistol for hunting too, I would think the .50 would be better for deer?Right?


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 12, 2009)

I don't generally take mine down to the bare frame for cleaning but it aint a bad idea for sure. I love it when some guys I know cringe when I tell em I cleaned my revolver in the kitchen sink. They haven't the clue about black powder... So long as you dry it and lube it right away you are good to go. If ya ever let it go overnight just once you'll know why you never do that again.

The issue with hunting with a BP handgun is the same, you almost can not burn enough powder in the barrel to get the velocity/energy you need. The Uberti WALKER revolver can handle 60 grain loads but only the WALKERS can do so. AND I doubt that all that powder is burning in the barrel...

If you seriously want to hunt with a BP handgun/pistol then you need look at something like the Pedersoli Bounty. That said I intend to use one of my revolvers to kill a deer but it's gonna have to be close, 20 yards or less.

The manual might tell you 14g as max but you sure wont be killing a deer with that. 

The Ruger Old Army manual tells me I can use as much powder of whatever granulation I like as I can fit in the chamber and still fit a projectile.


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## acmech (Dec 12, 2009)

I've read that with Rugers, you can use Triple 7 powder to get better velocities, but its not recommended for any of the other cap and ball pistols, not even Uberti's.  Never heard of any New army model holding 60 grs of powder, but you never know.  There is a gunsmith I saw online who does custom work on rugers where he will bore a Ruger cylinder deeper to take up to 50 gr. of powder, but not 60.   I just don't see the uberti being able to hold that much, its cylinder is not as long as a walkers.   The same guy also does conversions on Rugers, rebarreling them and putting in a 5 shot 50 cal cylinder.  I love my BP pistols, I think you'll find out you will have better luck using no. 10 percussion caps than you will no. 11.

Look at my post here about making your own cap and ball wads, it'll save you a ton of money, I bought some of this wool and punched out about 500 wads for my .44's.  http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=438920
After punching out the wads, (I made my punches on my lathe but you can buy them from harbor freight or dixie gun works) I soaked them in my homemade black powder bullet lube.  The bullet lube I used for the wads is 1/2 lb mutton tallow (dixie gun works)  1/2 lb parafin, and 1/4 lb bees wax.  Carefull where you melt it together, the bees wax still to high heaven as soon as it gets warm.  Making your own wads will save a lot of money at $7 per hundred.  I bought the wool for $30 and have barely used any of it making 5-6 hundred wads.


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## hawgrider1200 (Dec 12, 2009)

I have a Colt open top replica, manufacturer unknown. There is no way it's gonna hold more than 30 grains of BP. I have heard the Walker replicas can hold 60 grains of fffg. I agree with tvracingfan, I do not think the 60 grains will burn in the barrel. 60 grains of bp is a minimum load for 50 cal rifle. I have two Ruger Old Army revolvers I can load up about 40 grains in the cylinders and still get  a round ball seated. I saw some ballistic charts for bp loads on line. according to what I remember, 30 grains of bp will push a 220 grain projectile about 900 fps. up close 40 grains in my ROA oughta get the job done on a deer.

It is my opinion that the best bp handgun for deer would be the single shot trapper type pistols used b4 the revolver was invented, even then I would limit it to close range.


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## olchevy (Dec 12, 2009)

I went back to the site, yall were right it was the uberti walker that held the 60 gr of powder.....I am seriously looking into one of those kit pistols from cabelas the single shot .50cal traditions trapper, what are yalls take on this pistol?


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 12, 2009)

My understanding is they are very accurate. 

I can not recall where I read the article but this guy used the Pedersoli Bounty for hunting. I believe he used a 60 grain load but it might have been 70. He made some saddle bags and put some lead shot in em to hold the thing down as he said his load was hard to handle otherwise.

The Walker is pretty sweet BUT a 60 grain load generally dislodges the loading lever.

silly video ....


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## acmech (Dec 12, 2009)

You can use a Ruger Old Army to hunt with.  I've read that with 777 guys load it hot.  35 gr of 777 will push a .457 Hornady round ball 987 fps.  I'm sure it'll do better with 40 gr. of 777.  Use a heavier conicle, and your ready for hogs or deer at short range.


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 13, 2009)

One of the guys here has killed deer with his Remington 1858 clone, 30 grains FFFg and a round ball. I can get more than that in my ROAs and in my sons 1858 and I intend to give it a try.

I have some 180 grain conicals and some 220s and I intend to get some 190s and give em a test. Wish I knew someone with a chrono...


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## Cknerr (Dec 13, 2009)

Might want to stick to black powder. Facing a pig that close or after stalking a deer to get close enough for a shot is not the time for having ignition problems! Synthetic BP is known for being a bit temperamental to get going. Works great when it does.....just not worth the heart break of hearing a click, a little pop, and no boom. Round balls work great (what the contraption was made to shoot) on game. No wad or patch needed. Not good for distance, but up close it will put anything into the dirt. I shot mine through 3 Denver phone books (early 1970's) and gave up digging for it in frozen ground. Dad wanted to sink into a teenager's thick skull just how much damage that thing could do. His demo still left an imprint to this day- cap and ball revolvers have plenty of power up close! 

It is messy and you do have to strip the gun to clean it properly.....but worth it for reliability in this case.

Excess powder trouble? Hardly, you can pretty much fill each chamber with powder until you barely have room for the ball. The excess just gets blown out the barrel - very spectacular at night. This much powder is of course not very accurate. Make double sure you grease the front of the bullets after loading - cross firing is not fun.

Use to hunt rats near the city dump with my Navy Colt when a boy. Man, those where the days - lots of fun! (Dad and the workers there sure knew where I was! lol)

Chris


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## olchevy (Dec 13, 2009)

Actually today once I get back from church me and my cousin are going to go in the woods and mess around and you can know I will have it with me, on days like this I want to try it its misty light rainy,cold. I want to see if it will still go boom after being toted around in it for a couple hours...... 

Any quick way to reload these in the field?


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## Cknerr (Dec 13, 2009)

take it apart. Holding just the cylinder in your hands - fill the chambers with powder and push the bullet with your thumb to seat it just a tad (don't want to tilt and spill powder). Put the pistol together with the muzzle always pointing up. Getting the wedge fully seated may not be practical. Just need enough to hold things together. CAREFULLY push the bullets down a little with the plunger to get them secured. Seat the wedge if you where not able to earlier. Then go around again and push them all the way down since you won't have to worry about one of the chambers spilling bullet and charge. Grease the front of the chambers. Cap the nipples and make a joyful noise (as close as I get to religion).  Takes almost as long to explain as to do it.

Loading it at the range and in the field is a lot difference.  Taking it apart tends to get messy. The grease from the front of the cylinder gets all over the place. Handling that cylinder - not usually done this way at the range - does get messy! Might want to bring a rag, or have a very understanding clothes washer handy - yup, I use a trouser leg when the rag doesn't get everything.

Have fun,
Chris


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## tv_racin_fan (Dec 13, 2009)

Quick way to load in the field? The only QUICK way to reload is the ole Josey Wales cylinder swap method. Seems to work well with a Remington 1858 clone and if you deal with the wedge well any colt clone. Doesn't work so well with the ROA as you need a tool to get the cylinder out unless you leave the lock open... I prefer the 1858 because you dont have to handle anything off the gun except the cylinder, but it takes lots of practice to get anything close to fast.

Seriously the best way to reload with a cap n ball revolver is to have more than one on you, again ALA Josey Wales who carried two 1847 Walkers an 1860 Army and an 1849 Pocket. Course you could always elect to carry the LeMat revolver, 9 shots in the cylinder with the 20guage reserve...


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## olchevy (Dec 18, 2009)

Just gona add I dont know what I was thinking its a .36 caliber.....


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