# why not 3.5 in loads?



## aj.hiner (Mar 2, 2014)

serious question...I understand If your shotgun can't hold a 3.5"shell then you can't shoot it but I have always shot 3.5 cause of more pellets harder hitting etc.  as a turkey hunter I would say that most of us try to shoot a load that is consistent and holds a tight pattern and that hits hard.and it seems just from seeing and talking to people we mostly strive to extend our range from 30_50 yds not worrying to much about 10_20yds....so why would do you shoot a 3" shell instead of 3.5? I ask in all seriousness cause I have never considered shooting a 3" but see that most people do..am I missing out or missing something? thanks


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## gregg (Mar 2, 2014)

I shoot 3.5" shells myself, but I'd say most people that can shoot a 3.5" decide not to because they feel it is unnecessary, and that 3.5" just kick the snot out of ya.


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## Will-dawg (Mar 2, 2014)

I'll admit that I just don't like patterning 3.5" shells so there for I don't use them. Don't get me wrong though--3" shells kick like a mule too when patterning. If that's all I could get then yes I would use them but I have never had a problem with 3" shells. Come to think of it, before I got my Mossberg and was shooting a Rem 1100, I never had a problem with 2.75" rounds. I just knew the guns limitations.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 2, 2014)

yes you right they do kick..but it's like any gun or load..when your all fired up and that birds coming in or that big buck whenyou shoot you don't feel a thing


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## Headsortails (Mar 2, 2014)

I've never killed a bird with a 3.5" shell. In my opinion, they are unnecessary.JMHO


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## deast1988 (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm shooting a 3in 20ga this year one 24in barrel the other 22in barrel.

I shoot 3in because my gun and gauge.. If a #7 hevi shot is running 1090fps out of a 20ga and a #7 hevi shot is running 1090fps out of a 12 which hits harder?


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

A 3.5" load don't hit any harder than a 3" load.  You just have more pellets hitting your target.


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

But I will say that 95% of the time from what I have seen a 3.5" 2.25oz load will out pattern a 3" 2oz load whether it be lead or Hevi-13 loads.


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## Mudfeather (Mar 2, 2014)

I just don't see the need to shoot a roman candle at a turkey....If I cant kill him with a 3" he can live and Ill try him tomorrow with a 3"

I guess it would be positives just aren't worth the negatives to me...


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

And for those that try and say different they haven't found the right choke probably for the 3.5" load more than likely.


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## Unicoidawg (Mar 2, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> A 3.5" load don't hit any harder than a 3" load.  You just have more pellets hitting your target.



Now Brad quit that........ you know spreading common sense isn't allowed around here.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 2, 2014)

QUOTE=Brad C.;8534600]A 3.5" load don't hit any harder than a 3" load.  You just have more pellets hitting your target.[/QUOTE]

I agree but so when I see folks post picks up all the 
 time of their targets with "x" amount of pellets in a circle everyone is most concerned with how many pellets are inside an area...if this is the case then u wouldn't you shoot a load that throws more pellets? do you not have a better chance at killing  bird with 300 pellets flying at his head at 30 yds than 200?


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## 20dewbreaker12 (Mar 2, 2014)

what about the guys who hunt public land there may not be a tomorrow ?


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

Unicoidawg said:


> Now Brad quit that........ you know spreading common sense isn't allowed around here.



I apologize to you, the op and this forum for my silliness.


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## Spuriosity (Mar 2, 2014)

Recoil


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> QUOTE=Brad C.;8534600]A 3.5" load don't hit any harder than a 3" load.  You just have more pellets hitting your target.



I agree but so when I see folks post picks up all the 
 time of their targets with "x" amount of pellets in a circle everyone is most concerned with how many pellets are inside an area...if this is the case then u wouldn't you shoot a load that throws more pellets? do you not have a better chance at killing  bird with 300 pellets flying at his head at 30 yds than 200?[/QUOTE]

The outcome will be the exact same.  

It's 40yds or beyond when the number of pellets start making the difference in a kill or not more than likely.  Now that's not to say I'm promoting long range shooting and you might as well give me a rifle either.  I'm answering your question.   

30yds don't mean much even with lead patterns on a dead bird.


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## Brad C. (Mar 2, 2014)

Well and I will correct myself on what  I said above. 

Both a 3" 2oz load and a 3.5" 2.25oz load travelling at about the same speed won't hit and object pellet for pellet any harder at whatever the distance.  But it is true that the more pellets that hit an object that the more knockdown or hitting power will occur or take place.  So in away you are right.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

Nothing like the recoil of a 3.5" shell early in the morning.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

Its the internet  measuring contest we see today.. A 3.5 inch shell of equal density of shot and equal FPS hits no harder than its 3 or 2.75 inch brothers.. But with that being said the 3.5 shell has more opportunity to out pattern its little brother of same brand, shot medium and size and fill in gaps.. 

We have reached a point where as for the 40 yard shooter its pretty dang easy.. H 13 6s H13 7s and long beard all post great numbers at 40 yards in a 3 inch shell.. 140-150 type 10 inch patterns are not that hard to attain and go beyond the 100 inch internet requirement allowing for 5-10 yards buffer for range guesstimation. If you need 200-250-300 in a 10 inch its nothing more than the wiener measuring contest.. 

I enjoy the wiener measuring contest but it has grown old and is not needed much like 3.5 inch shells..


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## 242outdoors (Mar 2, 2014)

I just love the kick!


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## Bucky T (Mar 2, 2014)

Well..  I like my 3.5" loads.  Bigger is better.

Lol!


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## aj.hiner (Mar 2, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> Its the internet  measuring contest we see today.. A 3.5 inch shell of equal density of shot and equal FPS hits no harder than its 3 or 2.75 inch brothers.. But with that being said the 3.5 shell has more opportunity to out pattern its little brother of same brand, shot medium and size and fill in gaps..
> 
> We have reached a point where as for the 40 yard shooter its pretty dang easy.. H 13 6s H13 7s and long beard all post great numbers at 40 yards in a 3 inch shell.. 140-150 type 10 inch patterns are not that hard to attain and go beyond the 100 inch internet requirement allowing for 5-10 yards buffer for range guesstimation. If you need 200-250-300 in a 10 inch its nothing more than the wiener measuring contest..
> 
> I enjoy the wiener measuring contest but it has grown old and is not needed much like 3.5 inch shells..



I agree with all but your last statement..when a bird hangs up at 50..well...my 3.5" will drop him with as much confidence as a bird at 30..


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## icdedturkes (Mar 2, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> I agree with all but your last statement..when a bird hangs up at 50..well...my 3.5" will drop him with as much confidence as a bird at 30..



Numerous 20 gauges will kill 100 percent of birds to 50 yards it is no great feat reserved for the 3.5 inch 12 gauge.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 2, 2014)

This debate can go on forever.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 2, 2014)

n debate here I was half thinking about trying some 3" shells but had to find a reason.. I love a 3.5" but a always looking to better my pattern and extend range..I honestly don't know a whole lot about the performance of 3" shells..it doesn't seem so far that there is any reason to shoot a 3" over a 3.5"


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## Doug B. (Mar 3, 2014)

The reason most people shoot 3.5 inch shells is because nobody makes 4 inch shells. 

My old 870 only shoots 2.75 inch shells. Every turkey I have ever killed has been dead. I have shot a few at longer distances. I don't get carried away with distance though. If it is too far then I don't shoot. All three shell sizes have the same amount of powder which is the maximum load. You can't put more powder in any of them. All you have more of is shot.  I really don't think having more shot is going to give you more distance and shouldn't be the mindset of anybody that turkey hunts if you want a clean kill.


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## killerv (Mar 3, 2014)

Doug B. said:


> The reason most people shoot 3.5 inch shells is because nobody makes 4 inch shells.
> 
> My old 870 only shoots 2.75 inch shells. Every turkey I have ever killed has been dead. I have shot a few at longer distances. I don't get carried away with distance though. If it is too far then I don't shoot. All three shell sizes have the same amount of powder which is the maximum load. You can't put more powder in any of them. All you have more of is shot.  I really don't think having more shot is going to give you more distance and shouldn't be the mindset of anybody that turkey hunts if you want a clean kill.



I don't know if that about the powder is 100% true. I remember the old Federal turkey loads from 15-20 years ago used to have the drams listed on the box, I might even have an old box to check...anyway, I remember it being more than the 3in counterpart in the same size shot. I shot the 3 1/2 #6  2 1/4oz for years, that was some brutal stuff out of my old 835...but man it patterned good. I wanna say that load had over 500 pellets in it.


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## Sargent (Mar 3, 2014)

My first few turkeys succumbed to a 20 gauge single shot with a 2 3/4 shell.  

I think the ultimate answer to the question is marketing.  If no one had come up with 3.5" shells, turkeys would still be killed.


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## Core Lokt (Mar 3, 2014)

There is nothing wrong if someone wants to shoot 3.5" shells but I do not. 3" do the job just fine for me. I'm sure my gun will kill one at 50 (per the paper pattern) but I like to get them to 35yds and in. Turkey hunting to me is closer and personal. 

I will say this though...When the 3.5" loads got popular so did the skybusting at ducks and I'm sure it's the same way in the turkey woods. the train of thought of "it's a bigger shell so I can shoot farther" is well and alive.


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## ALPHAMAX (Mar 3, 2014)

yeah. 3.5 nice for pellet count and so nice for early morning recoil !
cant beat that good ole adrenaline mixed with recoil


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## Killdee (Mar 3, 2014)

Why I the world would you shoot a 3.5 in 12 when they make a 10 gauge or even use an 8 gauge if you really want a   contest?

As the loads and reloads have evolved to making the 20 a highly eficient light weight low recoil turkey hunting gun I see no need to punish my self for no added benifit.


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## Timber1 (Mar 3, 2014)

3.5" leave no doubt.


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## GLS (Mar 3, 2014)

This is my Alpha to Omega in turkey guns.  The big buster is a 1939 Ithaca NID 10 gauge, 3.5".  I bought the gun in the late 1970's during the 10 gauge craze.  Sold it 25 years ago, and reacquired in a trade last fall.  It will put a 3.5" 12 gauge to shame.  It weighs 11 pounds unloaded.  Add a half pound loaded.  The little gun is a Yildiz .410.  Lock, stock, sling, red dot and barrel, it weighs 3 lbs., 9 oz.  Shooting 13/16 oz. of TSS 9's, it will out shoot a 12 gauge's 10" ring shooting lead 4's at 40 yard, any shell length.  Where the red dot lies, the shot flies. The 40 yard pattern might not out pattern the new Winchester gimmick lead #6  load, but the .410 good enough for my purposes up to 40 yards. Guess which one is a better carry and will be in the truck in 3 weekends.  Hint:  The longest shell it shoots is 3”.


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## killerv (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm definitely taking my 20ga more this year. Shot my first one with a 20 last year just for a change of pace. I was very pleased. Then 3 days later finally got on another bird that was giving me fits.  Had a hen come out on the other side of the clear cut and walk the edge just feeding away from me. He followed her out about 10 minutes later. I was able call him half way to me. He'd stop...look in my direction. Then look at her who was 100 yards away by now. She was definitley more life like I must admit. Close as he got was 50 yards once he started back towards her. It was an open shot with my 3 1/2, I took it and I enjoyed the walk back to the truck. My first thought was that "I'm glad I didn't bring the 20." I rarely ever have to take a shot that far, but I have confidence in my 12ga setup.  My goal has always been 30 and in and thats the case 90% of the time when its shootin' time. But I like to know once he is 50 and in, its game on if for some reason he doesn't do right.


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## Bucky T (Mar 3, 2014)

GLS said:


> This is my Alpha to Omega in turkey guns.  The big buster is a 1939 Ithaca NID 10 gauge, 3.5".  I bought the gun in the late 1970's during the 10 gauge craze.  Sold it 25 years ago, and reacquired in a trade last fall.  It will put a 3.5" 12 gauge to shame.  It weighs 11 pounds unloaded.  Add a half pound loaded.  The little gun is a Yildiz .410.  Lock, stock, sling, red dot and barrel, it weighs 3 lbs., 9 oz.  Shooting 13/16 oz. of TSS 9's, it will out shoot a 12 gauge's 10" ring shooting lead 4's at 40 yard, any shell length.  Where the red dot lies, the shot flies. The 40 yard pattern might not out pattern the new Winchester gimmick lead #6  load, but the .410 good enough for my purposes up to 40 yards. Guess which one is a better carry and will be in the truck in 3 weekends.  Hint:  The longest shell it shoots is 3”.



Do you load the .410 shells yourself?


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## rhbama3 (Mar 3, 2014)

Lets leave "Oscar Meyer" out of the conversation please.
I shoot an 1187 Supermag and the recoil is usually just not that bad to me with 3.5 inch shells. It's not the out to 30 yard shot i'm concerned about. It's the 30-45 yard shot and thats where the extra pellet count comes in to play, at least with my choke. The 3.5 inch Winchester X-tended range still patterns best for me but the Hevi-13's are close. 
I will say that i shot the 3.5 inch MagBlend 5,6,7 and i had to get up, walk around, rub my shoulder,and reflect on life for a minute. That shell will rock your world.


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 3, 2014)

I shoot 3.5" because I can and it gives me a lot better pattern density out of my gun.  The people who say it's overkill think that their way is right and that their opinion of what will and won't kill a turkey is all that matters.  Why don't we all shoot .410's with .5 oz loads?  That's plenty good enough to kill a turkey if they have the same velocity.  You may only shoot 50 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 but it only takes one to kill him.  That being said, I would not hesitate to hunt with 3" loads, I know they'll do the job, I just like the extra pellets that the 1/4 oz extra load gives me inside and outside the 10" circle.


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## GLS (Mar 3, 2014)

Bucky T said:


> Do you load the .410 shells yourself?



Yes.  Gil


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## sman (Mar 3, 2014)

I shoot 3 and 3.5".  Maxus takes a lot of the recoil out.  I shot the 3" when I hunt wooded areas.  3.5" for the fields and woods.


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## goblr77 (Mar 3, 2014)

If you are going to tote around a 12ga chambered for a 3.5" you might as well shoot a 3.5" shell. I did until I figured out I could carry a 5-6 lb 20 gauge and kill turkeys as far as I personally cared to shoot one.


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## hawglips (Mar 3, 2014)

I don't shoot 3.5" twelve gauge because I can do everything that shell will do with a 2-3/4" 28 gauge.

I think it's age, but I'm enjoying carrying around something a lot lighter with very little recoil.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 3, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> I shoot 3.5" because I can and it gives me a lot better pattern density out of my gun.  The people who say it's overkill think that their way is right and that their opinion of what will and won't kill a turkey is all that matters.  Why don't we all shoot .410's with .5 oz loads?  That's plenty good enough to kill a turkey if they have the same velocity.  You may only shoot 50 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 but it only takes one to kill him.  That being said, I would not hesitate to hunt with 3" loads, I know they'll do the job, I just like the extra pellets that the 1/4 oz extra load gives me inside and outside the 10" circle.



I agree this is my take


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## aj.hiner (Mar 3, 2014)

goblr77 said:


> If you are going to tote around a 12ga chambered for a 3.5" you might as well shoot a 3.5" shell. I did until I figured out I could carry a 5-6 lb 20 gauge and kill turkeys as far as I personally cared to shoot one.



goblr I hear ya I used to carry my shotgun in my hand and weight was an issue..but since I put a rubber sling on it and throw it around myneck 5lbs or 8 lbs don't really matter


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## Bucky T (Mar 3, 2014)

My Benelli Nova is heavy.. but it doesn't bother me at all.  I use a Butler Creek sling.

No issues.


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## Headshot17 (Mar 3, 2014)

*TSS #9 in .410*



GLS said:


> This is my Alpha to Omega in turkey guns.  The big buster is a 1939 Ithaca NID 10 gauge, 3.5".  I bought the gun in the late 1970's during the 10 gauge craze.  Sold it 25 years ago, and reacquired in a trade last fall.  It will put a 3.5" 12 gauge to shame.  It weighs 11 pounds unloaded.  Add a half pound loaded.  The little gun is a Yildiz .410.  Lock, stock, sling, red dot and barrel, it weighs 3 lbs., 9 oz.  Shooting 13/16 oz. of TSS 9's, it will out shoot a 12 gauge's 10" ring shooting lead 4's at 40 yard, any shell length.  Where the red dot lies, the shot flies. The 40 yard pattern might not out pattern the new Winchester gimmick lead #6  load, but the .410 good enough for my purposes up to 40 yards. Guess which one is a better carry and will be in the truck in 3 weekends.  Hint:  The longest shell it shoots is 3”.




Is it possible for me to get a hold of some of this 410 ammo for my son? This will be his first year turkey. hunting.


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## BERN (Mar 3, 2014)

I changed back to a 3" this year for one reason. My 935 likes them better. The only real knock I have seen on that gun is that it doesn't cyle 3.5s well. I have been carrying it for 8 years so new shells seemed like a better option than a new gun.


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## 242outdoors (Mar 3, 2014)

I do one handed curls with my mossberg 835 prior to the season to get me ready.


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## Dallen92 (Mar 3, 2014)

I heard someone say one time that the reason they shoot 3.5s is because they dont make 4 inch shells for him to use.  That reason worked for me and it really comes down to whatever works best for each person. Personally I shoot 3.5s and 3s. They shoot equally well out of my gun one just has more pellets than other so whatever I pick out of the vest is what goes in the gun that day.


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## Reminex (Mar 3, 2014)

I almost always buy and use 3" in a 12 gauge for turkeys.  I have never felt much of a need for 3.5 and also the 3" will fit in all my guns and friends guns when they forget their shells.(happens all to often) My shell of choice for 10 years was a 2 3/4 or 3" #6 tungsten polymer.  Killed many birds, never lost one.  I have now pretty much stopped shooting the 12 completely.  20 gauge is plenty, and next year will hopefully have a 410 with tss loads.

I always try to buy 3.5 waterfowl over 3" though.


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## MKW (Mar 3, 2014)

The same reason folks in the southeast hunt whitetails with a 300mag or a 7mag. I don't know the reason, but it has to be the same reason. 

Mike


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 3, 2014)

MKW said:


> The same reason folks in the southeast hunt whitetails with a 300mag or a 7mag. I don't know the reason, but it has to be the same reason.
> 
> Mike



Nah, my bow does just fine.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 3, 2014)

MKW said:


> The same reason folks in the southeast hunt whitetails with a 300mag or a 7mag. I don't know the reason, but it has to be the same reason.
> 
> Mike





My friends and most of the guys in my age group have declared standard magnum cartridges "Not Cool" anymore it needs to be the latest and greatest Short Mag or Ultra Mag..


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## six (Mar 3, 2014)

With 3 1/2" shells I can put my decoys 1/2" further away from my blind.


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## GLS (Mar 3, 2014)

Headshot17 said:


> Is it possible for me to get a hold of some of this 410 ammo for my son? This will be his first year turkey. hunting.



It's not available commerically; it's a hand load only proposition.  I am not aware of anyone licensed to sell it.
Gil


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## Brad C. (Mar 3, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> I shoot 3.5" because I can and it gives me a lot better pattern density out of my gun.  The people who say it's overkill think that their way is right and that their opinion of what will and won't kill a turkey is all that matters.  Why don't we all shoot .410's with .5 oz loads?  That's plenty good enough to kill a turkey if they have the same velocity.  You may only shoot 50 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 but it only takes one to kill him.  That being said, I would not hesitate to hunt with 3" loads, I know they'll do the job, I just like the extra pellets that the 1/4 oz extra load gives me inside and outside the 10" circle.



Exactly correct.  

I see it the same way.  

Nothing wrong with a 3" shell.  I prefer the 3.5" heavier load myself.  It don't phase me in the turkey woods.


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## Brad C. (Mar 3, 2014)

BERN said:


> I changed back to a 3" this year for one reason. My 935 likes them better. The only real knock I have seen on that gun is that it doesn't cyle 3.5s well. I have been carrying it for 8 years so new shells seemed like a better option than a new gun.



You just haven't found the right 3.5" choke more than likely.  

I hear that a lot.  But I have yet to witness it.


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## Will-dawg (Mar 3, 2014)

For the life of me I can't figure out how the old timers ever killed a turkey without 3.5 or even 3" shells??


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## SC Hunter (Mar 4, 2014)

I have a 20 gauge little pop gun I shoot now. I will shoot them at 40 yards all day! I had a 835 and shot 3.5" until I hurt my shoulder and started using the 20 and really like it. For the record I deer hunt mostly with a 243!


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## davisd9 (Mar 4, 2014)

MKW said:


> The same reason folks in the southeast hunt whitetails with a 300mag or a 7mag. I don't know the reason, but it has to be the same reason.
> 
> Mike



Do you not know that bigger calibers with bigger bullets gives you more room for error.  Shoot him in the ear with the 300 mag and he will be DRT!

Same with bigger blades on a broad head.  Keeps us from having to stay in that pesky vital area.


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## davisd9 (Mar 4, 2014)

six said:


> With 3 1/2" shells I can put my decoys 1/2" further away from my blind.



Do not forget to wear your Mossy Oak Blind Black Camo shirt and face mask so you do not spook them.  

Which with you decoy line and that M Sharpe string I do not think you will have to worry about them paying you any attention, but better to be safe than sorry!


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## Huntinfool (Mar 4, 2014)

I haven't read all the responses and I'm sure this has been said several times.

Why not?  Because they freakin hurt!  And because they aren't necessary to kill a turkey even out to 50 or 60 yards.

I just don't see the point even though I did shoot a 3.5 for many years.  I guess one day the mule kicking me in the shoulder must have knocked some sense into me or something.


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 4, 2014)

Huntinfool said:


> I haven't read all the responses and I'm sure this has been said several times.
> 
> Why not?  Because they freakin hurt!  And because they aren't necessary to kill a turkey even out to 50 or 60 yards.
> 
> I just don't see the point even though I did shoot a 3.5 for many years.  I guess one day the mule kicking me in the shoulder must have knocked some sense into me or something.



Why not just bow hunt for them?  A bow will kill a turkey a lot further away than a shotgun.


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## Huntinfool (Mar 4, 2014)

Because a shotgun will kill a turkey anywhere within about a two foot area of where I'm aiming at 40 yards and a bow will kill one in a two inch area of where I'm aiming at 40 yards....and I'm not that good.

Perhaps you'd like me to re-phrase.  A 3 inch shell is 100% as effective as a 3.5" shell at similar distances.  I don't personally see the need for a 3.5".   There's that...and my 20 gauge doesn't hold 3.5" shells.  So that wouldn't go so well for me if I tried to shoot one.

I don't have a problem with those who shoot 3.5".  It works.  That's for dang sure.  I just don't personally see the point.  Patterning is a nightmare shooting a 3.5" shell.  Otherwise, from my experience, I could shoot a 10" shell and not feel it when a turkey is in front of me.  It's the practicing that makes 3.5" misery.


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## Brad C. (Mar 4, 2014)

Well I do see the point in a 3.5" shell.  More folks probably shoot 3.5" in 12GA now than 3".  Bigger is better no matter how you slice it.  Those that like 3" shells by all means shoot them.  You don't hear the 3.5" guys saying I see no need for a 3" shell when you got a 3.5" choice.  It's all about choice and what you want has a turkey hunter.  Last time I checked, choice is a good thing.


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## Brad C. (Mar 4, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Why not just bow hunt for them?  A bow will kill a turkey a lot further away than a shotgun.



Because most peoples success rate without the use of a portable blind would be less than 5%.  And that is about the honest truth on the success rate.


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## willie1971 (Mar 4, 2014)

just pattern your gun, and decide for yourself what meets your needs.


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## BERN (Mar 5, 2014)

It actually patterns both fine(with the right load choke combo,of course). It doesn't like to cycle the 3.5s. I missed an easy double last year cause it jammed after the first shot. The second bird just stood there looking at his buddy. When I was patterning the 3s it shot 2.5 boxes of shells and cycled perfect every time.



Brad C. said:


> You just haven't found the right 3.5" choke more than likely.
> 
> I hear that a lot.  But I have yet to witness it.


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## Brad C. (Mar 5, 2014)

BERN said:


> It actually patterns both fine(with the right load choke combo,of course). It doesn't like to cycle the 3.5s. I missed an easy double last year cause it jammed after the first shot. The second bird just stood there looking at his buddy. When I was patterning the 3s it shot 2.5 boxes of shells and cycled perfect every time.



That is a gun manufacture issue and not the actual gun liking the 3" better.  I would call the maker of the gun and tell them about it.  

In the two 3.5" chambered guns that I have personally owned, both shot better overall patterns with the 3.5" loads.  Like I said, I'll take the 3.5" loads every single time over the 3" loads when it comes to putting up denser patterns.  The 3" shells will work plenty good for those that want to use them though.


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## kiltman (Mar 5, 2014)

gun doesn't take 3.5 inch shells, so there nothing to decide.


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## cowhornedspike (Mar 5, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> I agree but so when I see folks post picks up all the
> time of their targets with "x" amount of pellets in a circle everyone is most concerned with how many pellets are inside an area...if this is the case then u wouldn't you shoot a load that throws more pellets? *do you not have a better chance at killing  bird with 300 pellets flying at his head at 30 yds than 200?*



Couldn't have made the argument any better myself ... for my 2-3/4" 20ga TSS 9's ...  Has everything "your" gun has ... well except maybe the extra 4-5 pounds you have to carry around ... and the recoil ... and I have more pellets ... in the shell ... and in the turkey ... but otherwise they are the same ... except I can load mine cheaper than you can buy your 3.5" blended magnums ...


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## BERN (Mar 5, 2014)

I agree with you about the gun manufactuing issue. In looking around the web this is the only knock that I see fairly regularly about the mossy 935. I am pretty sure they are aware of it. 

If I could travel back to 2005 with the knowlege I have now I may have made a different purchase. The 3 days that lead me to own this gun is an interesting story in its own right. That having been said, last year I read Tom Kelly's Point of View. In that book he talks about having a personal relationship with your turkey gun. That's how I feel about mossy. Like my wife, she's not perfect, but in the end she has never let me down(at least on the first shot). If she prefers to be fed 3s in order to be a more reliable companion then that'll work for me. 




Brad C. said:


> That is a gun manufacture issue and not the actual gun liking the 3" better.  I would call the maker of the gun and tell them about it.
> 
> In the two 3.5" chambered guns that I have personally owned, both shot better overall patterns with the 3.5" loads.  Like I said, I'll take the 3.5" loads every single time over the 3" loads when it comes to putting up denser patterns.  The 3" shells will work plenty good for those that want to use them though.


----------



## Brad C. (Mar 5, 2014)

That's all in the setting of the gas operation.  On my Browning Gold 3.5" I used to have it had problems shooting light dove loads.  I called them about it.  They said they could fix it where it would cycle all 12GA loads without a glitch.  But here is the kicker to that.  They told me if they adjust the gas compensating screw from where it is set at that it would also be a lot harder on the gun for cycling heavy turkey loads and I'm guessing make it where out faster.  I said let's leave it alone.


----------



## icdedturkes (Mar 5, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> That's all in the setting of the gas operation.  On my Browning Gold 3.5" I used to have it had problems shooting light dove loads.



I own 2 X2s and both gave up the goat over time became un reliable with dove loads than heavier loads. Than I learned that the spring in the gas piston wears out or seizes over time thus leading to unreliable cycling. I was with left with 3 options: New Piston =Expensive, New Spring= Pain, Sleeve the piston= Inexpensive and sent it out.. 

It was the best money I had ever spent on a shotgun.. I tried running the gun to failure waterfowling hundreds of rounds, lieing in mud, dirt, freezing temps over the course of months without cleaning and it refused to fail. The gun runs much much cleaner as a side benefit.


----------



## BERN (Mar 5, 2014)

What mine is doing is ejecting the first one and not chambering the second. Maybe a trip to a gunsmith would fix that. I think I'll be happy running the 3s from what I have seen so far. I'm not super motivated to fiddle with it. I understand the point of a machine always running as it should. If you were to tell me that I need to fix it on that principle I'd have a hard time arguing. To me, it is more like the choice between regular unleaded and premium than it is a question of worn out brake rotors. 

If I really really wanted to shoot those 3.5s I'd be more motivated to look into it. Interestingly, the bird I killed the deadest (messed up head) was with 3" lead shot the day after I bought it with the stock mossy turkey choke.


----------



## emusmacker (Mar 5, 2014)

The 3.5 inch guys sure seem to be the ones trying to justify their reason for shooting them.  I don't need a 3.5 inch to kill a turkey.  

I don't have to justify why I shoot a 3 inch shell.  

I also don't have "little man syndrome" so I don't NEED a 3,5 inch to kill a turkey.  The OP asked why not shoot 3.5's, I ask why shoot 3.5?  if a 3 inch is good enough why shoot 3.5. I also shoot 2.75 inch too.  

just don't see why the 3.5 inchers feel it neccessary to jutify and try to prove they are sooooo much better.  JMHO.


----------



## emusmacker (Mar 5, 2014)

And for the question about why have a 3,5 in gun and not shoot em, same reason most folks buy trucks with V8's that can run 120 but only drive 60.  Why not buy a 6 cyl?


----------



## Timber1 (Mar 5, 2014)

BERN said:


> What mine is doing is ejecting the first one and not chambering the second. Maybe a trip to a gunsmith would fix that. I think I'll be happy running the 3s from what I have seen so far. I'm not super motivated to fiddle with it. I understand the point of a machine always running as it should. If you were to tell me that I need to fix it on that principle I'd have a hard time arguing. To me, it is more like the choice between regular unleaded and premium than it is a question of worn out brake rotors.
> 
> If I really really wanted to shoot those 3.5s I'd be more motivated to look into it. Interestingly, the bird I killed the deadest (messed up head) was with 3" lead shot the day after I bought it with the stock mossy turkey choke.



Will it chamber a 3 behind a 3.5?


----------



## BERN (Mar 5, 2014)

I haven't tried that. I feel dumb now for not thinking of it. The only problem I would have is that the 3" h13 #6 shoots best out of the .690 choke and the mag blend shoots best with a .670.



Timber1 said:


> Will it chamber a 3 behind a 3.5?


----------



## Timber1 (Mar 5, 2014)

3 inch is plenty.


----------



## Brad C. (Mar 5, 2014)

emusmacker said:


> And for the question about why have a 3,5 in gun and not shoot em, same reason most folks buy trucks with V8's that can run 120 but only drive 60.  Why not buy a 6 cyl?



That'sa funny scenario.  I got a 4cyl that will do 150mph and will out top end most 8's.  It must have a  3.5" Mag under the hood.


----------



## swalker1517 (Mar 6, 2014)

This will be my first year shooting 3.5 Hevi-shot. And that's only be a use that's all they had. But I will say that after shooting this past weekend, I will only shoot 3.5 s. The shear numbers are what impressed me. And the kick wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.


----------



## 242outdoors (Mar 6, 2014)

swalker1517 said:


> This will be my first year shooting 3.5 Hevi-shot. And that's only be a use that's all they had. But I will say that after shooting this past weekend, I will only shoot 3.5 s. The shear numbers are what impressed me. And the kick wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.



What gun are u shooting? Get an 835 and feel the kick! I like it


----------



## swalker1517 (Mar 6, 2014)

242outdoors said:


> What gun are u shooting? Get an 835 and feel the kick! I like it



I shoot a 535. Basically a 500 with a 835 receiver.


----------



## Clint Shook (Mar 6, 2014)

rhbama3 said:


> Lets leave "Oscar Meyer" out of the conversation please.
> I shoot an 1187 Supermag and the recoil is usually just not that bad to me with 3.5 inch shells. It's not the out to 30 yard shot i'm concerned about. It's the 30-45 yard shot and thats where the extra pellet count comes in to play, at least with my choke. The 3.5 inch Winchester X-tended range still patterns best for me but the Hevi-13's are close.
> I will say that i shot the 3.5 inch MagBlend 5,6,7 and i had to get up, walk around, rub my shoulder,and reflect on life for a minute. That shell will rock your world.



Got a new for me 3.5" pump and launched a 3 1/2 mag blend.   Same as you I it hammered me. Do other more standard 3 1/2 loads kick less or do I need to skip back to the 3"?   Looking for something between a standard 3" and 3.5 blends based on recoil.   Input?


----------



## Spuriosity (Mar 6, 2014)

Clint Shook said:


> Got a new for me 3.5" pump and launched a 3 1/2 mag blend.   Same as you I it hammered me. Do other more standard 3 1/2 loads kick less or do I need to skip back to the 3"?   Looking for something between a standard 3" and 3.5 blends based on recoil.   Input?



A 3.5" H-13 straight 6 or 7 will recoil less than the mag blends since they are only launched at 1090 vs 1200 for the blends. In a 7# gun the 3.5" MBs generate 80 ft-lbs of recoil vs 67 ft-lbs for the straight 6 or 7. As for me, I like my retinas attached as God intended...no 3.5 inchers for me.


----------



## Clint Shook (Mar 6, 2014)

Thank you.  Do you know the recoil ft- lbs for a 3" non mag blend ?


----------



## Bucky T (Mar 6, 2014)

I don't mind a 3.5" shell.  I figure, "Why Not??"  My gun likes them.

When I get on up in age, I'll be dropping down to whatever kicks the less and will do the job. lol

Right now, the recoil doesn't bother me.


----------



## six (Mar 6, 2014)

On the patterning board let someone else load your gun for you without you watching.  Ask them to slip in an already shot shell at some point.   This is how my Dad taught me as a kid.  I think it helps.  If you don't flinch on the dry fire I say the 3 1/2" don't bother you.  But you will see most people flinch, some almost to the point of falling out of their seat.  If you flinch I think you would be better suited for a 3" or maybe even a 2 3/4".  Even a hot 20 ga. may be the way to go.


----------



## SGADawg (Mar 6, 2014)

I bought a 835 with collapsible stock after sighting one in for a friend.  3.5" didn't bother me so I figured any advantage was good.  I can't figure out why but every time I fire a 3.5" round in this gun it bloodies my cheek. I have tried moleskin on the stock. 3" rounds don't do it so they are what I shoot.


----------



## Brad C. (Mar 6, 2014)

SGADawg said:


> I bought a 835 with collapsible stock after sighting one in for a friend.  3.5" didn't bother me so I figured any advantage was good.  I can't figure out why but every time I fire a 3.5" round in this gun it bloodies my cheek. I have tried moleskin on the stock. 3" rounds don't do it so they are what I shoot.



Buy you a Beartooth comb raising kit from Amazon.


----------



## icdedturkes (Mar 6, 2014)

six said:


> On the patterning board let someone else load your gun for you without you watching.  Ask them to slip in an already shot shell at some point.   This is how my Dad taught me as a kid.  I think it helps.  If you don't flinch on the dry fire I say the 3 1/2" don't bother you.  But you will see most people flinch, some almost to the point of falling out of their seat.  If you flinch I think you would be better suited for a 3" or maybe even a 2 3/4".  Even a hot 20 ga. may be the way to go.



Many a time killing geese I have rose up from the layout blind and whether its forgot to reload or completely unclosed action and squeezed the trigger to nothing.. After a fall of 3inch HV Steel its downright embarrassing sometimes and makes me glad everyone else is shooting and not watching me.


----------



## killerv (Mar 6, 2014)

835s are no fun to pattern. I used to hate it, I'd get about 3 shots in before the flinchin started. I finally broke down and bought an xtrema2 w/o kickoff, a worlds difference in recoil with the same loads.


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 6, 2014)

I was wondering why the last box of 3.5" shells I bought came with a box of tissues.  Starting to understand now.........


----------



## Curtis-UGA (Mar 6, 2014)

I have shot a lot of 3.5s through my 835 and believe it or not it doesn't really bother me anymore. It is overkill for sure but sometimes its fun to overkill!


----------



## Turkeydoghunter (Mar 6, 2014)

I shot turkeys with 12 ,20 and 410 gauges  with 2 3/4" , 3" and 3.5 " and found the 12 with 3.5 6s work the best for me , when I pull that trigger I fully expect to kill my turkey every time !


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## emusmacker (Mar 6, 2014)

I fully expect to kill em too every time.  Have in the past and will continue.  still no justification needed for me to shoot 3.5's.


----------



## Spuriosity (Mar 6, 2014)

Clint Shook said:


> Thank you.  Do you know the recoil ft- lbs for a 3" non mag blend ?



55 ft-lbs


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

Spuriosity said:


> 55 ft-lbs



What's the ft-lbs. on a 1,200 fps. 2 7/16 oz. round?


----------



## Spuriosity (Mar 7, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> What's the ft-lbs. on a 1,200 fps. 2 7/16 oz. round?



93 ft-lbs


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

Spuriosity said:


> 93 ft-lbs



Thanks!


----------



## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

*don't ask people here....*

use your computer.

There are several post forms all shell manufacturers, and they all agree. The additional 50% recoil does not out weight the fraction of any addtional performance.

In short, the 3.5 shell has more shot, not more powder charge. The result is no more penetration, more shot string, and less down range ft per sec. And in most cases add no more kill pellets at any range.

don't ask these people, read it for yourself.

s&R


----------



## Timber1 (Mar 7, 2014)

Yeah foreman dont ask questions on a turkey hunting forum about turkey hunting. Whats wrong with you? Go use your computer...Oh wait...this is a computer. And dont read this here. Go google it and let it bring you back here. Geez....some people.


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> use your computer.
> 
> There are several post forms all shell manufacturers, and they all agree. The additional 50% recoil does not out weight the fraction of any addtional performance.
> 
> ...



Lol, please explain how a 3" shell containing 1.75 oz and a 3.5" shell containing 2 oz can throw the same velocities with the same amount of powder.


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

awesome! most here are full of opinion and no fact.

Opinions are like feet most folks have at least two and they both stink, including mine.....I'm glad you agree.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Lol, please explain how a 3" shell containing 1.75 oz and a 3.5" shell containing 2 oz can throw the same velocities with the same amount of powder.



He can't!


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Yeah foreman dont ask questions on a turkey hunting forum about turkey hunting. Whats wrong with you? Go use your computer...Oh wait...this is a computer. And dont read this here. Go google it and let it bring you back here. Geez....some people.



I tried!  Must be all those 3.5" shells I've shot over the years.


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

I'll try.....

If you want more pellets, certainly shoot the 3.5. There is no logic that any more will find the kill zone than a 3'' will  place there.

Now, for the fun part. 

Both shells shoot the same powder charge the 3.5 provides more pellets ( more weight). If you don't see that the same powder charge has to push more shot down range and the result is a slower travel speed then the conversation needs to end until you do the research yourself.

s&r


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## rhbama3 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> I'll try.....
> 
> If you want more pellets, certainly shoot the 3.5. There is no logic that any more will find the kill zone than a 3'' will  place there.
> 
> ...



If the box says 1200fps for both a 3.5in and a 3 inch shell, wouldn't more powder be needed to achieve that speed in the larger load?


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## aj.hiner (Mar 7, 2014)

rhbama3 said:


> If the box says 1200fps for both a 3.5in and a 3 inch shell, wouldn't more powder be needed to achieve that speed in the larger load?



Absolutely!! If you are gonna sit here and tell me a 3.5" load at 1200fps is the same as a 3" at 1200fps as far as more chance of pellets hitting your target you have gone mental its simple math that if you sling 300 pellets as opposed to 200 and both shells pattern the same you have more chance of more pellets hitting your target area..


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## Dallen92 (Mar 7, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> Absolutely!! If you are gonna sit here and tell me a 3.5" load at 1200fps is the same as a 3" at 1200fps as far as more chance of pellets hitting your target you have gone mental its simple math that if you sling 300 pellets as opposed to 200 and both shells pattern the same you have more chance of more pellets hitting your target area..



Exactly my thoughts.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> I'll try.....
> 
> If you want more pellets, certainly shoot the 3.5. There is no logic that any more will find the kill zone than a 3'' will  place there.
> 
> ...



Might be a good time to use Google.


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> I'll try.....
> 
> If you want more pellets, certainly shoot the 3.5. There is no logic that any more will find the kill zone than a 3'' will  place there.
> 
> ...



Well your post explains a lot.  You must have never patterned a gun or determined that 3" and 3.5" loads have the same velocities.


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

I think it's time we quit feeding the troll.  He CAN'T be serious.


----------



## hawglips (Mar 7, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Lol, please explain how a 3" shell containing 1.75 oz and a 3.5" shell containing 2 oz can throw the same velocities with the same amount of powder.



That happens fairly regularly.  All sorts of things come into play - powder burn rate, primer, hull capacity, wad, other components in the shell, chamber pressure, barrel length, choke constriction, and other things I don't understand.

Here are some examples of lab tested loads:

3" with 40 grains X powder, 2-1/4 oz shot
 1166 fps

3.5" with 43 grains X powder, 2-1/2 oz shot
1091 fps

3" with 44 grains X powder, 2 oz shot
1231 fps

3" with 44 grains of X powder, 1-3/4 oz shot
1230 fps


----------



## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

*pattern a shotgun?*

certainly, and will use several different shot makes when doing so. 

The fact remains a 3.5'load is slower than a 3" load. The 3.5 carries more shot.

simple math, and even more simple research.........

s&r


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> certainly, and will use several different shot makes when doing so.
> 
> The fact remains a 3.5'load is slower than a 3" load. The 3.5 carries more shot.
> 
> ...


----------



## aj.hiner (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> certainly, and will use several different shot makes when doing so.
> 
> The fact remains a 3.5'load is slower than a 3" load. The 3.5 carries more shot.
> 
> ...



Yes this is all true but it seems as if you are trying to say that a 3.5 is the same as a 3" both shooting the same FPS..one slings more pellets so if on the box they both say 1200 fps 3.5 has a better ration of hitting your target than a 3" if they are both at an equal pattern at POI


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That happens fairly regularly.  All sorts of things come into play - powder burn rate, primer, hull capacity, wad, other components in the shell, chamber pressure, barrel length, choke constriction, and other things I don't understand.
> 
> Here are some examples of lab tested loads:
> 
> ...



So... different powders?  That's what it would take.  I know a thing or two about rifle/pistol reloading, just not much about shotguns.  My argument (which still stands) was the fact that 3" and 3.5", if you have a different charge of shot (1.75 oz vs 2 oz), in the same barrel, same powder, everything else the same, the 2 oz will require a higher charge of powder to get the same velocity as the 1.75.

For example, MagBlends are 1200 fps for both 3" and 3.5", the 3.5" has 1/4 oz more shot.

Long Beards are 1200 fps for both 3" and 3.5", Hevi #6 are 1090 fps for 3" and 3.5".

The argument that 3.5" has less velocity was obviously flawed.


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That happens fairly regularly.  All sorts of things come into play - powder burn rate, primer, hull capacity, wad, other components in the shell, chamber pressure, barrel length, choke constriction, and other things I don't understand.
> 
> Here are some examples of lab tested loads:
> 
> ...



I assume by you not giving the barrel lengths and powder that there are more variables here than you listed.


----------



## Timber1 (Mar 7, 2014)

Thats why I use 3.5 in a 3.5 gun. I like giving a gobbler a chance to get out of the way of my slow shot string. Im all about giving a bird a break.


----------



## rhbama3 (Mar 7, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Thats why I use 3.5 in a 3.5 gun. I like giving a gobbler a chance to get out of the way of my slow shot string. Im all about giving a bird a break.



You're such a giver.


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Thats why I use 3.5 in a 3.5 gun. I like giving a gobbler a chance to get out of the way of my slow shot string. Im all about giving a bird a break.



Gotta keep it fair to the animal.  If he can duck out of the way of the slow 3.5" loads in time, then he wins.


----------



## Headsortails (Mar 7, 2014)

If your gun/choke/shell combo is producing a killing pattern at the yardage you prefer, what difference does it make what length shell you use?


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

The extra 3000 PSI in SAAMI spec allows for the velocities to be equal, although the 3.5" has more pellets.


----------



## hawglips (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> The fact remains a 3.5'load is slower than a 3" load. The 3.5 carries more shot.
> 
> simple math, and even more simple research.........
> 
> s&r



That isn't fact, actually.  With a 3.5" shell, you can load more shot and at the same speed or faster than a 3" shell.  Industry safety standards and shotshell ballistics determine that.  

For example, the new Longbeard 3.5" carry 2 oz of shot with 1200 fps MV, and their 3" 1-3/4 oz is running 1200 fps MV also.  

Same thing with Winchesters XRHD loads - the 3.5" are heavier payloads but same velocity (1225 fps) as the lighter 3" loads.  Same with Hevi-13 and lots of others also. 

And then you've got the Winchester Double X 3" loads that are 1125 fps and 2 oz, while the heavier 2-1/4 oz 3.5" loads are faster at 1150.  

You can get heavier and faster with the 3.5", if they want to.  And most do at least one or the other.


----------



## hawglips (Mar 7, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> I assume by you not giving the barrel lengths and powder that there are more variables here than you listed.



Same barrel lengths, same gun, same choke constriction with those examples.  And there are lots of other variables like I mentioned.


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That isn't fact, actually.  With a 3.5" shell, you can load more shot and at the same speed or faster than a 3" shell.  Industry safety standards and shotshell ballistics determine that.
> 
> For example, the new Longbeard 3.5" carry 2 oz of shot with 1200 fps MV, and their 3" 1-3/4 oz is running 1200 fps MV also.
> 
> ...


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Thats why I use 3.5 in a 3.5 gun. I like giving a gobbler a chance to get out of the way of my slow shot string. Im all about giving a bird a break.



And you put your decoys out to 50 yards.


----------



## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

"3.5 has a better ration of hitting your target than a 3" if they are both at an equal pattern at POI "

no this about choke vs. type of shot.

maybe, maybe not....pellets inside a kill zone should be determined by a pattern of your shotgun. That being said, the folks from federal premimum sell both loads and test them on a 30'" circle at 40 yards. We all know the actual kill zone is about the size of your fist.......not a 30" circle.

non the less, the results are posted.

s&r


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "3.5 has a better ration of hitting your target than a 3" if they are both at an equal pattern at POI "
> 
> no this about choke vs. type of shot.
> 
> ...



My gun puts 262 pellets with 3.5" in 10" circle vs 220's with 3", same load, same choke, same size, different amount of shot.


----------



## turkeykirk (Mar 7, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Thats why I use 3.5 in a 3.5 gun. I like giving a gobbler a chance to get out of the way of my slow shot string. Im all about giving a bird a break.



That's why when I hunt my 3.5 inch shotgun I don't bother to shoot !


----------



## spurrs and racks (Mar 7, 2014)

"My gun puts 262 pellets with 3.5" in 10" circle vs 220's with 3", same load, same choke, same size, different amount of shot. "

next your going to tell me that the paper was at 50 yards....

and when you do I'm going to call "Bull Crap"

s&r


----------



## 01Foreman400 (Mar 7, 2014)

I get upper 320's - low 340's shooting 3.5's.


----------



## king killer delete (Mar 7, 2014)

gregg said:


> I shoot 3.5" shells myself, but I'd say most people that can shoot a 3.5" decide not to because they feel it is unnecessary, and that 3.5" just kick the snot out of ya.


 3.5 inch loads came about because of steel shot in waterfowl hunting. 3 inch shell will kill any big bird around as long as you are shooting lead. Steel does not have density of lead and because of that it will loose allot more energy than lead. 3.5 inch lead is overkill. My 2 cents


----------



## klemsontigers7 (Mar 7, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "My gun puts 262 pellets with 3.5" in 10" circle vs 220's with 3", same load, same choke, same size, different amount of shot. "
> 
> next your going to tell me that the paper was at 50 yards....
> 
> ...





Why would I pattern my gun at 50 yards?

It was at 40.


----------



## Reminex (Mar 8, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "My gun puts 262 pellets with 3.5" in 10" circle vs 220's with 3", same load, same choke, same size, different amount of shot. "
> 
> next your going to tell me that the paper was at 50 yards....
> 
> ...



I've got some advice for you...stop calling bullcrap on subjects you have no clue about.  That's the second time in a week.


----------



## Brad C. (Mar 8, 2014)

Well I'll prove to anyone that with the right choke a 3.5" 2.25oz load will out pattern a 3" 2oz load of the same type brand load and shot.  I always hear people telling me how well their 3" loads shoot, but from my knowledge of shooting over the years, the heavier 3.5" load will not only give you more hits on target, but it will also give you more pattern density on top of the lighter 3" load I would say at least 95% of the time.

I think it's funny how guys say a 3" is all you need.  Maybe it is all you need or want.  But that don't make it the load of choice for every hunter.  If a guy can shoot 3.5" loads and do a lot better with them on number of hits in a 20" circle at 40yds, then by all means let him shoot them.  You shoot your 3" loads and let us shoot our 3.5" with more hits in the kill zone.  It's that simple.


----------



## emusmacker (Mar 8, 2014)

I think they should have a 4 inch shell.  
Brad i agree, that you have every right to shoot a 3.5 inch shell.  but the OP was asking why not a 3.5.  it's been stated numerous times.  Because some of us don't want to or have to.  The turkeys round here ain't that tough yet.  When they do, then I'll shoot a 3.5.

I think it's overkill, but that's my opinion.  I don't see anything wrong with anyone wanting to get every single pellet from their shell in a 10 in circle, but I honestly don't worry about it.  If I can get 30 pellets in the head and neck area, I'm good to go.  Most time I can achieve this with cheaper shells and factory turkey chokes.  remember. dead is dead.

like a post mentioned previously, it's a wonder how we killed turkeys 20 yr ago with 2 3/4 inch 4 shot or 3 inch 6 shot from factory chokes or even the older 20 in full choke guns.  Again I ask, have the turkeys become that much tougher?  

now adays if a person can't put 200 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards, they are obselete and incapable of killing a turkey.  Why?


----------



## emusmacker (Mar 8, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> Well I'll prove to anyone that with the right choke a 3.5" 2.25oz load will out pattern a 3" 3oz load of the same type brand load and shot.  I always hear people telling me how well their 3" loads shoot, but from my knowledge of shooting over the years, the heavier 3.5" load will not only give you more hits on target, but it will also give you more pattern density on top of the lighter 3" load I would say at least 95% of the time.
> 
> I think it's funny how guys say a 3" is all you need.  Maybe it is all you need or want.  But that don't make it the load of choice for every hunter.  If a guy can shoot 3.5" loads and do a lot better with them on number of hits in a 20" circle at 40yds, then by all means let him shoot them.  You shoot your 3" loads and let us shoot our 3.5" with more hits in the kill zone.  It's that simple.



and Brad, technically speaking, a 2 3/4 is all you need.  It is more of what you want instead of need.  and where you think it's funny that some say all you need is a 3 inch, I think it funny that some feel they need a 3.5 inch to kill aturkey.


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## Todd1700 (Mar 9, 2014)

> Well I'll prove to anyone that with the right choke a 3.5" 2.25oz load will out pattern a 3" 2oz load of the same type brand load and shot. I always hear people telling me how well their 3" loads shoot, but from my knowledge of shooting over the years, the heavier 3.5" load will not only give you more hits on target, but it will also give you more pattern density on top of the lighter 3" load I would say at least 95% of the time.



This has been my experience. I don't even want to sit and figure out how much money I have spent on shotguns, chokes and shells over the years. (Did I mention I was married to a good woman) In all that time spent at the range patterning my guns and the guns of friends and family, I have never seen a 3 inch shell out pattern a 3 1/2 inch shell of the same type through the same gun and choke. And not only did the 3 1/2 inch shell always give a better pattern it was typically by a wide margin. 

So, if the recoil doesn't really bother me any more than a 3 inch shell (and it doesn't) then why not use the one that throws a better pattern. I see no downside to a better pattern. I have used 3 inch shells that gave me good patterns to 40 yards. But the only turkey rigs I have put together that were legitimate 50 yard guns were with 3 1/2 inch shells. 

Your mileage may vary.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 9, 2014)

emusmacker said:


> I think they should have a 4 inch shell.
> Brad i agree, that you have every right to shoot a 3.5 inch shell.  but the OP was asking why not a 3.5.  it's been stated numerous times.  Because some of us don't want to or have to.  The turkeys round here ain't that tough yet.  When they do, then I'll shoot a 3.5.
> 
> I think it's overkill, but that's my opinion.  I don't see anything wrong with anyone wanting to get every single pellet from their shell in a 10 in circle, but I honestly don't worry about it.  If I can get 30 pellets in the head and neck area, I'm good to go.  Most time I can achieve this with cheaper shells and factory turkey chokes.  remember. dead is dead.
> ...


 its seems people just shoot it because yes if shoots good for them but why wouldn't you try to better your pattern? Or your chances at killing one that's not in your darn lap? You hear that dumb statement all the time " how did they kill them with 2 3/4"? Of course they used to kill em with that load and they still do but put that stubborn turkey hunter who wont ever change his ways with his 2 3/4 and you will with out pattern and have a way more accurate shot down range..Is that not the whole idea when hunting finding the best tools to ensure an ethical kill? Its the same issue with guys saying " oh my I would never shoot a turkey At 50 yds lol that's cause you can't with your 2 3/4 load accurately..guess what what I have and can kill one at 50..its not overkill when your shooting longer ranges..just because folks don't try new things to better themselves as a hunter doesn't mean thats how everyone rolls A 3.5 gives me the best chance to drop one at 0-50 as opposed to your 0-40 that's the difference


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## MKW (Mar 9, 2014)

So, it's "bettering yourself as a hunter" when you make your shotgun kill one further out?? That makes no sense, to me, at all. A better hunter will get the turkey where he needs to be. More technology does not make one a better hunter. In fact, I think it's exactly the opposite.

Mike


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## aj.hiner (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> So, it's "bettering yourself as a hunter" when you make your shotgun kill one further out?? That makes no sense, to me, at all. A better hunter will get the turkey where he needs to be. More technology does not make one a better hunter. In fact, I think it's exactly the opposite.
> 
> Mike



You misunderstood me or I said it wrong I'm not saying your a better hunter cause you can kill one at 50..when I said that it was about your pattern you shoot..the goal when finding the right choke, gun , shell etc is to find the best pattern and shot density etc..so someone like you always says its overkill when a 3.5" load lays a better patter and shot density and more pellets that's what doesn't make sense..I wanna shoot the best shell to make a kill..you would better yourself and your shot IMO if you were shooting a 3" shell and had 200 pellets in a 10" circle and you moved to a 3.5" shell and now you have 300 in a 10" circle..to me that would be bettering my self as a hunter


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## Gaswamp (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> So, it's "bettering yourself as a hunter" when you make your shotgun kill one further out?? That makes no sense, to me, at all. A better hunter will get the turkey where he needs to be. More technology does not make one a better hunter. In fact, I think it's exactly the opposite.
> 
> Mike





*Agree but add that
A better hunter will get the turkey where he needs to be or the hunter will get where the turkey wants to be*


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## Killdee (Mar 9, 2014)

I have never felt under gunned when I pass a 40+ shot, I just lost the game on that paticacular hunt and to me that's the way the game has always been meant to be played. Btw I shoot a 2 3/4 20 with TSS so 50 is no problem just not my style.


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## Brad C. (Mar 9, 2014)

I see your guys point.  And I respect it.  I know Mike likes to kill them with a 20GA.  And he kills a bunch.  I understand why he likes the 20GA, too.  Light and let's him pack it and cover some ground but yet can still reach out and kill one at 40yds and probably then some with the loads he uses.  I can't argue with that.  Most turkey shots are probably around 30yds.  I just can't see myself giving up my 12GA guns since they pattern so dang well for me with the Hevi-13 #7 loads.  I just bought 4 more boxes of the old Hevi-13 #7's that shoot so well.


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## strutlife (Mar 9, 2014)

I shoot an 835, star dot choke, 3 1/2 heavywight 7's. I have shot Nitro 3 1/2's until I recently got the star dot and patterned it with the heavyweight 7's. Does it kick, yes. Does it bother me, NO. Most people I hear won't shoot a 3 1/2 because of the kick, AND, they can kill'em with a 3". To each his own. Shoot what your comfortable shooting. Enjoy your hunt. As far as kick, do you think "the shooter's" in Iraq and Afghanistan on the 50 cal complained about the kick when taking out the enemy. Probly not.


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## MKW (Mar 9, 2014)

strutlife said:


> I shoot an 835, star dot choke, 3 1/2 heavywight 7's. I have shot Nitro 3 1/2's until I recently got the star dot and patterned it with the heavyweight 7's. Does it kick, yes. Does it bother me, NO. Most people I hear won't shoot a 3 1/2 because of the kick, AND, they can kill'em with a 3". To each his own. Shoot what your comfortable shooting. Enjoy your hunt. As far as kick, do you think "the shooter's" in Iraq and Afghanistan on the 50 cal complained about the kick when taking out the enemy. Probly not.



Obviously, you have never shot a 50. They are not bad, recoil wise, especially prone.
But, I agree with you...everybody should shoot what they are comfortable with.

Mike


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## Brad C. (Mar 9, 2014)

strutlife said:


> I shoot an 835, star dot choke, 3 1/2 heavywight 7's. I have shot Nitro 3 1/2's until I recently got the star dot and patterned it with the heavyweight 7's. Does it kick, yes. Does it bother me, NO. Most people I hear won't shoot a 3 1/2 because of the kick, AND, they can kill'em with a 3". To each his own. Shoot what your comfortable shooting. Enjoy your hunt. As far as kick, do you think "the shooter's" in Iraq and Afghanistan on the 50 cal complained about the kick when taking out the enemy. Probly not.



I shoot a Star Dot .676 original Colonial Arms made choke with amzing results at a taped 40yds with Hevi-13 3.5" #7's.  No turkey will find a hole in that pattern I don't believe.


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## Brad C. (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> Obviously, you have never shot a 50. They are not bad, recoil wise, especially prone.
> But, I agree with you...everybody should shoot what they are comfortable with.
> 
> Mike



Hey Mike, are you still shooting the Fed Heavy Weight 1.5oz #7's in your 20GA?  Or have you changed to something else?  That load makes for a killer load for sure.


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## Corey J (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> Obviously, you have never shot a 50. They are not bad, recoil wise, especially prone.
> But, I agree with you...everybody should shoot what they are comfortable with.
> 
> Mike



I have to show this  This is me shoulder firing a 50!  As you can tell...it was one heavy joker lol not a good bug out gun


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## MKW (Mar 9, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> Hey Mike, are you still shooting the Fed Heavy Weight 1.5oz #7's in your 20GA?  Or have you changed to something else?  That load makes for a killer load for sure.



Yep, still on the Fed 7s. Will probably shoot them for a while since I still have 22 boxes. 

Mike


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## Brad C. (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> Yep, still on the Fed 7s. Will probably shoot them for a while since I still have 22 boxes.
> 
> Mike



So that's 22 x 5 = 110 more turkeys.  

You still got enough life in you to do that buddy?


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 9, 2014)

MKW said:


> Yep, still on the Fed 7s. Will probably shoot them for a while since I still have 22 boxes.
> 
> Mike



Hoarder!


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## MKW (Mar 9, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> So that's 22 x 5 = 110 more turkeys.
> 
> You still got enough life in you to do that buddy?



I sure hope I do. We never know, but I hope I live the 5 or 6 years it will take me to shoot them up.  

Mike


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## Headsortails (Mar 10, 2014)

I believe it's a personal choice. I mean after the one pellet that kills him, the rest are just insurance. However, I do believe that some hunters, especially beginners buy the 3.5 believing they have to have it and then because of recoil, shoot poorly. This has been reinforced by guides who carry 2.75 shells for recoil shy clients.


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## Core Lokt (Mar 10, 2014)

Headsortails said:


> especially beginners buy the 3.5 believing they have to have


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> its seems people just shoot it because yes if shoots good for them but why wouldn't you try to better your pattern? Or your chances at killing one that's not in your darn lap? You hear that dumb statement all the time " how did they kill them with 2 3/4"? Of course they used to kill em with that load and they still do but put that stubborn turkey hunter who wont ever change his ways with his 2 3/4 and you will with out pattern and have a way more accurate shot down range..Is that not the whole idea when hunting finding the best tools to ensure an ethical kill? Its the same issue with guys saying " oh my I would never shoot a turkey At 50 yds lol that's cause you can't with your 2 3/4 load accurately..guess what what I have and can kill one at 50..its not overkill when your shooting longer ranges..just because folks don't try new things to better themselves as a hunter doesn't mean thats how everyone rolls A 3.5 gives me the best chance to drop one at 0-50 as opposed to your 0-40 that's the difference



Maybe for you it would be good if centerfire rifles were allowed and electronic calls too.  that way you canreally "reach out there" and kill it clean and effectively.

but I'll just stick with my good ol kill effecient 3 inch mags and keep killen em at 40 yards, if not, I'll just try him again another day.

To some HUNTERS it's not all about the kill but the hunt itself.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 10, 2014)

emusmacker said:


> Maybe for you it would be good if centerfire rifles were allowed and electronic calls too.  that way you canreally "reach out there" and kill it clean and effectively.
> 
> but I'll just stick with my good ol kill effecient 3 inch mags and keep killen em at 40 yards, if not, I'll just try him again another day.
> 
> To some HUNTERS it's not all about the kill but the hunt itself.



Yea your right its all about just posting a pic on GON for I could careless about the shaking or a spring morning with birds hammering who would? Maybe one day I will be a bad as you and can kill one at 40 yds with a 3" shell..after all I have never killed one inside 60 I just can't call one up that close


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## T-N-T (Mar 10, 2014)

If a shell will kill a bird even 5 yards farther than another I will use it.  I dont care what you say.  Tell me its not needed.  Tell me I shouldnt enjoy the kick and boom of a 3.5 inch shell.  Tell me I should call better.  Tell me what ever you want, I.  Do.  Not.  Care.  
I will shoot them till I get too old to do so.  I will kill a bird as far as I can.  Because he might no walk up tomorrow.  I might suffer a terrible accident and never return to the woods.  But at the end of the day,  not everyone is built to handle a 3.5 inch shell.  I was born with a magnum load shell in my hand.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 10, 2014)

TopherAndTick said:


> But at end of the day,  not everyone is built to handle a 3.5 inch shell.



Yeah, they've already admitted that.  I think some just don't feel comfortable shooting a 3.5" shell.  That's really all they have to say.

We could debate on a 20 ga. 2 3/4" vs. 3" ammo.  You don't need the 3" shell but it has more potential for a better pattern.  Same thing can be said about the 2 3/4" and the 3" 12 ga. ammo.


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2014)

I could care less what anyone shoots.  I just don't need a 3.5 in to kill a turkey.  If some do, then great, keep shooting em.  But when I'm asked "why not a 3.5" and I give my reason, then don't get all hissified and start bashing on 3 inchers. 


Just to clear things up.  I have no problem with anyone that shoots a 3.5 in shell.  I duck hunt with a guy that shoots 3.5 in for timber.  Yes, I rag him and he tells me bigger is better, but in the end, we both end up with the same result,  dead ducks.  I have just been haggling the "bigger is better" guys.  No hard feelings guys.  And I  seriously didn't mean to offend anyone. If I did I apologize.  

I may even try a 3.5 in my gun this yr.  But I don't like recoil, I can handle it, just don't like it.  And as long as I'm killing em with a 3 inch then I have no reason to change.  But if 100 pellets more is REALLY that big a deal then by all means do it.


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2014)

TopherAndTick said:


> If a shell will kill a bird even 5 yards farther than another I will use it.  I dont care what you say.  Tell me its not needed.  Tell me I shouldnt enjoy the kick and boom of a 3.5 inch shell.  Tell me I should call better.  Tell me what ever you want, I.  Do.  Not.  Care.
> I will shoot them till I get too old to do so.  I will kill a bird as far as I can.  Because he might no walk up tomorrow.  I might suffer a terrible accident and never return to the woods.  But at the end of the day,  not everyone is built to handle a 3.5 inch shell.  I was born with a magnum load shell in my hand.



Have a question for you Magnum PI, do you think that centerfire rifles should be allowed for turkey hunting?


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## Gaswamp (Mar 10, 2014)

Who needs a 3 1/3 when you can get a 2 3/4 to punch a hole like this at 30 yds.


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> Yea your right its all about just posting a pic on GON for I could careless about the shaking or a spring morning with birds hammering who would? Maybe one day I will be a bad as you and can kill one at 40 yds with a 3" shell..after all I have never killed one inside 60 I just can't call one up that close



you can kill one at forty yards already.  it don't someone "bad" to that.  I just hope to one day be bad enough to have to shoot a 3.5 to kill aturkey.  That would make me super bad then, that would put me in the "manly man" category.

Seriously man, I'm just messin with you.  Maybe I took your question wrong.  It seemed like you were criticizing the guys that shoot 3 inch shells.  Shoot what you want, as long as whatever we shoot will produce a clean kill, then that's all that matters.  Good luck this spring.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 10, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Who needs a 3 1/3 when you can get a 2 3/4 to punch a hole like this at 30 yds.



You got some explainin to do.....First off, where did you find 3 1/3 ammo.    Seriously tell me about this picture.  Gun, choke and ammo?


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## aj.hiner (Mar 10, 2014)

emusmacker said:


> you can kill one at forty yards already.  it don't someone "bad" to that.  I just hope to one day be bad enough to have to shoot a 3.5 to kill aturkey.  That would make me super bad then, that would put me in the "manly man" category.
> 
> Seriously man, I'm just messin with you.  Maybe I took your question wrong.  It seemed like you were criticizing the guys that shoot 3 inch shells.  Shoot what you want, as long as whatever we shoot will produce a clean kill, then that's all that matters.  Good luck this spring.


No sir I was absolutely not criticizing a man who shoots a 3".now for the last time and read carefully.. every other thread on here is a pic showing a shotgun patterning with a certain shell..( most of the 3" loads) every one of these threads folks are concerned with how many pellets are in a 10" circle at x yard..I also am concerned with this when patterning my turkey gun..Now the question.if the biggest concern is how many pellets in a 10" circle why on earth would you choose a 3" with say 250 pellets rather than a 3.5 with 350? I'm am not saying one bit that folks who shoot  3" are any less..I was asking a legitimate question..if you ate concerned of how many pellets will hit that turkeys head which almost every turkey hunter is then why would you not shoot a 3.5 which will allow you to throw more pellets..I promise that if I took a 3" shell up against my 3.5" every time I will have more pellets in that circle..guess what that's the goal..its not overkill its not cause I have to kill a bird at 60 its cause I have a better chance at hitting that bird at any distance close or far..and its all good I still love you and all the turkey hunters who throw a 3" shell


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## Headsortails (Mar 10, 2014)

No offense, but a turkey inside forty yards will die from a shot from a well patterned, well aimed gun shooting 3" or 3.5".


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## aj.hiner (Mar 10, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> You got some explainin to do.....First off, where did you find 3 1/3 ammo.    Seriously tell me about this picture.  Gun, choke and ammo?



Never have saw a 2 3/4 hit that hard and tight at 30 but yes I would like to hear if it looks like this at 30 it would look dang near as good at 40..if others shoot a 2 3/4 and can make a hole like this at 30 I will change immediately..


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## Gaswamp (Mar 10, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> You got some explainin to do.....First off, where did you find 3 1/3 ammo.    Seriously tell me about this picture.  Gun, choke and ammo?



lol 3 1/3

got to shoot one of Gundocs turkey card shoot shotguns a few years back.   Was/is customized Savage 212 ( I think) bolt shotgun.  Believe  it was a standard lead 7 1/2's or 8's load.   Wud hate to lug that thing though, think it weighed near 40 pounds.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 10, 2014)

Dang it boy that's a mean load right there


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## mossyoakpro (Mar 10, 2014)

Surprised you can pick up that much at your age old man 

Happy Birthday again!


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 11, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> lol 3 1/3
> 
> got to shoot one of Gundocs turkey card shoot shotguns a few years back.   Was/is customized Savage 212 ( I think) bolt shotgun.  Believe  it was a standard lead 7 1/2's or 8's load.   Wud hate to lug that thing though, think it weighed near 40 pounds.



Might needs some shooting sticks for that one.


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## hawglips (Mar 11, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Who needs a 3 1/3 when you can get a 2 3/4 to punch a hole like this at 30 yds.



I know a guy who says he shot a turkey's head clean off at 30 yds with Hevishot 7.5s.    He says the turkey's head was hanging by just the skin and fell off when he picked it up by the neck.  He even posted pictures of the bird and it's detached head.  Wasn't even bloody either....


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 11, 2014)

do those hevishot 7.5's come in ballistic tip?


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## hawglips (Mar 11, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> do those hevishot 7.5's come in ballistic tip?



Prolly so.


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## MKW (Mar 11, 2014)

Folks that shoot 3.5" 12ga turkey loads are the same crowd that uses the term "Thunder Chicken"...rookies. 

That ought to get a rise out of y'all...yep, that should do it! 

Mike


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## Brad C. (Mar 11, 2014)

Mike,

I wonder who started the phrase Thunder Chicken?  It had to be a southerner.


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## Brad C. (Mar 11, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Who needs a 3 1/3 when you can get a 2 3/4 to punch a hole like this at 30 yds.



Who is saying that target was shot at 30yds?  

I'm gonna call bull on that one for one shot.

I have seen and been around some great shooting shotguns, but none will do that at a true 30yds as a shotgun as I know it.


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## hawglips (Mar 11, 2014)

Brad C. said:


> Who is saying that target was shot at 30yds?
> 
> I'm gonna call bull on that one for one shot.
> 
> I have seen and been around some great shooting shotguns, but none will do that at a true 30yds as a shotgun as I know it.



That was 3 or 4 shots....


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## Brad C. (Mar 11, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That was 3 or 4 shots....



Oh my bad.  

I can see that then.  

Anybody posting a target like that and claiming one shot is either on crack or smoking some of that Colorado weed at $400 an oz.  LOL!


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## Gaswamp (Mar 11, 2014)

Unreal, I've wasted enuff of my time with the foolish.  You would think somebody that's been around here since the beginning wouldn't have to deal with this .....Don't appreciate the insinuating comment calling me a liar or drug user.  And everyone wonders why the turkey forum ain't the same as it used to be


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## six (Mar 11, 2014)

MKW said:


> Folks that shoot 3.5" 12ga turkey loads are the same crowd that uses the term "Thunder Chicken"...rookies.
> 
> That ought to get a rise out of y'all...yep, that should do it!
> 
> Mike



I may start shooting Thunder Chickens with my Twinky gauge.


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## Turkeydoghunter (Mar 11, 2014)

I've enjoyed reading this thread, I recently switched to the 3.5 when I bought a new black eagle 2 , I have had good luck with the Winchester Super X high velocity number 6 12 gauge 1300 fps it crushed the last 12 birds I called in I compared it to the Extended Range and it actually did a little better Extended shoots 1225 fps , could it be the faster 1300 fps  load helps the heavier 3.5 shell ??? it patterns better than the 3 inch for me , I wont shoot a bird over 40 yards .....


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## turkeykirk (Mar 11, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> lol 3 1/3
> 
> got to shoot one of Gundocs turkey card shoot shotguns a few years back.   Was/is customized Savage 212 ( I think) bolt shotgun.  Believe  it was a standard lead 7 1/2's or 8's load.   Wud hate to lug that thing though, think it weighed near 40 pounds.



Man, that's something else!


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## Brad C. (Mar 11, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Unreal, I've wasted enuff of my time with the foolish.  You would think somebody that's been around here since the beginning wouldn't have to deal with this .....Don't appreciate the insinuating comment calling me a liar or drug user.  And everyone wonders why the turkey forum ain't the same as it used to be



So now are we saying that is in fact 1 shot at 30yds?  I've been to shooting matches that shoot closer than that even with bull barrels and none will do that.  Not one.  And I know some good shotgun smiths but none can do that even at 25yds.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 11, 2014)

MKW said:


> Folks that shoot 3.5" 12ga turkey loads are the same crowd that uses the term "Thunder Chicken"...rookies.
> 
> That ought to get a rise out of y'all...yep, that should do it!
> 
> Mike



I shoot 3.5" and call them Birds


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 12, 2014)

" And everyone wonders why the turkey forum ain't the same as it used to be "

mostly folks claiming 270 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards out of a 20 ga


I have raised all of my children and now have grandchildren and the only thing I can tell you with a fact is a 20 ga shot pattern will be on the ground not long after 50 yards. And every 20ga I ever shot, shot low at 40.

s&r


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## six (Mar 12, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> the only thing I can tell you with a fact is a 20 ga shot pattern will be on the ground not long after 50 yards. And every 20ga I ever shot, shot low at 40.
> 
> s&r


Makes no sense to me at all.  I shoot a 3 1/2".  A pellet of a certain weight traveling at a certain speed on a certain line is going to hit the ground at the same place wether it came out of a 410 or a 10 gauge.


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## Killdee (Mar 12, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> " And everyone wonders why the turkey forum ain't the same as it used to be "
> 
> mostly folks claiming 270 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards out of a 20 ga
> 
> ...



With TSS handloads you would be incorrect on all three counts, with Federal Heavyweight 7's you would still be incorrect on the last 2, folks regularly do get over 300 in the 10" with TSS and 170-180's with the federals.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 12, 2014)

six said:


> I shoot a 3 1/2".



Might as well carry a strutter with ya as well.


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 12, 2014)

"Makes no sense to me at all. I shoot a 3 1/2". A pellet of a certain weight traveling at a certain speed on a certain line is going to hit the ground at the same place wether it came out of a 410 or a 10 gauge. "


you got me scooter......hunt'um with a slingshot


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## J Gilbert (Mar 12, 2014)

six said:


> Makes no sense to me at all.  I shoot a 3 1/2".  A pellet of a certain weight traveling at a certain speed on a certain line is going to hit the ground at the same place wether it came out of a 410 or a 10 gauge.



Yep, that whole physics thing doesn't change a bit based on gauge


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## spurrs and racks (Mar 12, 2014)

"With TSS handloads you would be incorrect on all three counts, with Federal Heavyweight 7's you would still be incorrect on the last 2, folks regularly do get over 300 in the 10" with TSS and 170-180's with the federals. "


well, I am sure handloads.....mine is better than yours.....mine is bigger than yours.....you get the idea. 

I'm just telling you we have a shooting range, I've seen nobody.....NOBODY...that can place 180 pellets of even #9's in a 10" circle @ 40 yrds (measured) with a 20 ga. 

Over 40 people shot this past weekend and every 20ga....EVERYONE....shot low at 40 yards.


now, I am not prevy to what loads they shot and what chokes they used. What I can tell you is that 40 yards and 40 steps are two different ranges. AND the only gun to place pellets (multiple) in a turkey head target (4" diameter). at 50 (measured) yards was a 10 ga browning gold hunter


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## six (Mar 12, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> Might as well carry a strutter with ya as well.



Going to mount one on my barrell.


spurrs and racks said:


> you got me scooter......hunt'um with a slingshot


Skippy, even out of a sling shot, if everything else is the same it will hit the ground at the same place and same time.  If I'm wrong please explain it to me so I'll understand.


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## 01Foreman400 (Mar 12, 2014)

six said:


> Going to mount one on my barrell.




Becareful!  The recoil of the 3.5" could knock it off.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 12, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "With TSS handloads you would be incorrect on all three counts, with Federal Heavyweight 7's you would still be incorrect on the last 2, folks regularly do get over 300 in the 10" with TSS and 170-180's with the federals. "
> 
> 
> well, I am sure handloads.....mine is better than yours.....mine is bigger than yours.....you get the idea.
> ...



Hey Rip Van Winkle, it isn't 1994 anymore


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2014)

I just hope I can get a thunder chicken in my sights so I can overkill it.


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## blong (Mar 12, 2014)

I will bet anyone on here (my gun for your gun) that a 20 ga can get 181+ every time at 40yds/10" circle with 1 5/8 oz 8's! I am willing to meet halfway on travel distance if your gun is worth the drive. Mine is a Beretta al 390 synthetic.


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2014)

What else you got?


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## blong (Mar 12, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> What else you got?



What else you want?


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## blong (Mar 12, 2014)

And you can't push me while I'm aiming Timber!


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2014)

Well...if your gonna start adding rules then forget it.


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## cowhornedspike (Mar 12, 2014)

blong said:


> I will bet anyone on here (my gun for your gun) that a 20 ga can get 181+ every time at 40yds/10" circle with 1 5/8 oz 8's! I am willing to meet halfway on travel distance if your gun is worth the drive. Mine is a Beretta al 390 synthetic.



I'll offer the same and raise it up to 200.    I average over 300 with my 20 and 1-7/16 oz TSS 9 loads but occasionally get an oddball shot that falls down to 270 or so.

And the all-knowing spur and rack is right...40 yds and 40 steps is not the same...my steps are longer so I have to cut it down some to get a real 40 yds.


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## Reminex (Mar 12, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "With TSS handloads you would be incorrect on all three counts, with Federal Heavyweight 7's you would still be incorrect on the last 2, folks regularly do get over 300 in the 10" with TSS and 170-180's with the federals. "
> 
> 
> well, I am sure handloads.....mine is better than yours.....mine is bigger than yours.....you get the idea.
> ...



Perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist at your shooting range.  Does water soak into a grit faster at your place as well?  Because Ive never had a 20 gauge shoot low at 40 when the poi at 20 wasn't low.  This entails factory anything including slugs.  If they are shooting low its cause they are aiming low.

I have 4 guns that will destroy a turkey head target at a taped 50, 2 20 gauges and 2 12 gauges.

There are in fact members here who can probably out shoot that 10... with a .410.  Just gotta know what your doin.


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## Reminex (Mar 12, 2014)

Btw what range do you own and is it open to the public?  I would love to show some crawford county folks how to shoot.


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## hawglips (Mar 12, 2014)

spurrs and racks said:


> "With TSS handloads you would be incorrect on all three counts, with Federal Heavyweight 7's you would still be incorrect on the last 2, folks regularly do get over 300 in the 10" with TSS and 170-180's with the federals. "
> 
> 
> well, I am sure handloads.....mine is better than yours.....mine is bigger than yours.....you get the idea.
> ...





How about 280?

Maybe 380?


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## hawglips (Mar 12, 2014)

blong said:


> I will bet anyone on here (my gun for your gun) that a 20 ga can get 181+ every time at 40yds/10" circle with 1 5/8 oz 8's! I am willing to meet halfway on travel distance if your gun is worth the drive. Mine is a Beretta al 390 synthetic.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

What a great thread..glad to amuse so many folks over a simple question..I really have learned a lot through this thread..very informal regarding loads..everything else is mine is badder than yours..did I mention that if you shoot anything but a 3.5" you are soft.." Oh my widdle shoulder" Do you hunt with your purse to Alice?


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## hawglips (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> What a great thread..glad to amuse so many folks over a simple question..I really have learned a lot through this thread..very informal regarding loads..everything else is mine is badder than yours..did I mention that if you shoot anything but a 3.5" you are soft.." Oh my widdle shoulder" Do you hunt with your purse to Alice?



I'd like to see you take Blong's bet....  That Beretta of his is nice!


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

hawglips said:


> I'd like to see you take Blong's bet....  That Beretta of his is nice!



Naw I never said other loads couldn't do the job my question was why not a 3.5... if Mr.Blong can hit 200+ pellets at 40 with a 20gauge that would anwer my question..I wouldn't be fooling with other loads either.plus I wouldn't wanna trade my 3.5" slinging Mossberg 835..he better pack a lunch if he wants to compete with that haha


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## cowhornedspike (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> Naw I never said other loads couldn't do the job my question was why not a 3.5... if Mr.Blong can hit 200+ pellets at 40 with a 20gauge that would anwer my question



He can




aj.hiner said:


> ..I wouldn't be fooling with other loads either.



You shouldn't



aj.hiner said:


> plus I wouldn't wanna trade my 3.5" slinging Mossberg 835..he better pack a lunch if he wants to compete with that haha



I doubt he would want it anyway...but if you took the challenge I am sure he would own it even if he doesn't want it.


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## T-N-T (Mar 12, 2014)

emusmacker said:


> Have a question for you Magnum PI, do you think that centerfire rifles should be allowed for turkey hunting?



No.  I dont agree with ANY muzzle loading gun being allowed either.  But I could kill a turkey with a scoped 50 cal.  Out to 200 yards.  But I wont.


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## T-N-T (Mar 12, 2014)

Basically I hope to shoot his head straight off his neck.  Clean.  That is why I like the 3.5 inch shell.  Oh, wait, no it is not.  I like them because they have more pellets.  And everyone on here will agree.  Even if they lie and say they dont.  The point is to kill the bird.  Not wound it.  And sometimes things go a muck in the woods and you need more pellets sometimes.  A branch or grass gets in the way or the bird bobs when he needed to weave.  NOW more pellets are not a gar-un-tee to overcome these possible problems, But they Can help.  But not always.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> He can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to say that is cute you speaking for him..my GUn. And load have never let me down don't need your gun or his to get it done.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

TopherAndTick said:


> Basically I hope to shoot his head straight off his neck.  Clean.  That is why I like the 3.5 inch shell.  Oh, wait, no it is not.  I like them because they have more pellets.  And everyone on here will agree.  Even if they lie and say they dont.  The point is to kill the bird.  Not wound it.  And sometimes things go a muck in the woods and you need more pellets sometimes.  A branch or grass gets in the way or the bird bobs when he needed to weave.  NOW more pellets are not a gar-un-tee to overcome these possible problems, But they Can help.  But not always.


I agree 100% this is what I'm wondering why you wouldn't want the most pellets possible? And folks turn a question into a my load, gun am better than ours..Some guys gave an honest answer and have enjoyed the feedback..


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## blong (Mar 12, 2014)

A.J, I dont have 3.5 because I bought my 870 back before 3.5's were popular.If they would have had them I would have bought one. I lugged around a 36" barrel 10 for yrs so I could get all the pellet energy available until turkey chokes for the 12s started making their appearance. I shoot the 20 because I was toying around with Hals recipe for my 10 yr old son at the time and the 20 started spanking the 12 ga patterns around the camp. I have nothing against magnum shotguns just no need for one till I cant get my hands on htl shot.


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## icdedturkes (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> I have to say that is cute you speaking for him..my GUn. And load have never let me down don't need your gun or his to get it done.



You do realize this guy is handing you your posterior, right?


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## Timber1 (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> I agree 100% this is what I'm wondering why you wouldn't want the most pellets possible? And folks turn a question into a my load, gun am better than ours..Some guys gave an honest answer and have enjoyed the feedback..



Turkey hunters been bragging on their shotguns for a long long time. 
Thing is, once most turkey hunters were very limited in what ammo was available to them. Most guys shot pretty much the same as the next guy. Full-choked barrels were as good as it got. Good shooting shotguns were what made the difference sometimes. Now with all these different loads and chokes the gun itself is not that important. Bragging on your choke and shell is just an extension of bragging on your gun. 
I don't think many guys would shoot a 20 if 2 3/4 or 3" high brass lead sixes out of a full choke barrel were all they could shoot.
I did it and wouldn't want to again.
All things considered I think if your shooting lead at a gobbler a 3.5" shell is your best bet. 
I remember once we had been hunting and had come out of the woods. I was pretty young and we were standing around and the older men were bragging on their guns. There was this man come up and brought this long barreled 12 single shot. He was bragging about how hard it shot and the tight pattern. He had it stock down on the ground and had his hand wrapped around the top of the barrel. It was a hammer gun. I think he lifted his leg and got his boot or  his britches hung on the hammer, but next thing....KABOOM....He blew about half his thumb off right there in front of us. He said ...fellas I think I better be gettin on home. 
I remember one of my uncles saying something about being able to buy that gun cheap now.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

blong said:


> A.J, I dont have 3.5 because I bought my 870 back before 3.5's were popular.If they would have had them I would have bought one. I lugged around a 36" barrel 10 for yrs so I could get all the pellet energy available until turkey chokes for the 12s started making their appearance. I shoot the 20 because I was toying around with Hals recipe for my 10 yr old son at the time and the 20 started spanking the 12 ga patterns around the camp. I have nothing against magnum shotguns just no need for one till I cant get my hands on htl shot.



If this is the case I would love to try..I'm always looking to better my self in the woods..have more pellets in a 10" circle would be better to me. What's you setup?


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

icdedturkes said:


> You do realize this guy is handing you your posterior, right?



Lol really dude..yea I'm spent I give up..I'll probably lose sleep tonight over it..man I need to get my internet game up I just can't hang no more..I'll probably just give up turkey hunting this year cause it just hurts so bad


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## blong (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> If this is the case I would love to try..I'm always looking to better my self in the woods..have more pellets in a 10" circle would be better to me. What's you setup?



Beretta 390 20 ga, 26" with undertaker choke. Nothing fancy just a lucky combo. TSS 8s 1 5/8 oz.


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Turkey hunters been bragging on their shotguns for a long long time.
> Thing is, once most turkey hunters were very limited in what ammo was available to them. Most guys shot pretty much the same as the next guy. Full-choked barrels were as good as it got. Good shooting shotguns were what made the difference sometimes. Now with all these different loads and chokes the gun itself is not that important. Bragging on your choke and shell is just an extension of bragging on your gun.
> I don't think many guys would shoot a 20 if 2 3/4 or 3" high brass lead sixes out of a full choke barrel were all they could shoot.
> I did it and wouldn't want to again.
> ...


Yep..no bragging about my gun..whether you believe it or not I asked this question for pure knowledge. I have little to no experience with any other load than a 3.5"..this is why I asked .I see a lot of people shooting 3" shells and was wondering if I was missing out and could learn some things con different loads and chokes in my gun..and I have learned a lot in this one thread leaving all the middle school drama begind


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

blong said:


> Beretta 390 20 ga, 26" with undertaker choke. Nothing fancy just a lucky combo. TSS 8s 1 5/8 oz.



What's TSS? Lol


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## klemsontigers7 (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> What's TSS? Lol



Oh man...


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Oh man...



I was kidding hence the lol


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

Can someone make these loads so I can buy and try?


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## MKW (Mar 12, 2014)

aj.hiner said:


> Lol really dude..yea I'm spent I give up..I'll probably lose sleep tonight over it..man I need to get my internet game up I just can't hang no more..I'll probably just give up turkey hunting this year cause it just hurts so bad



No, no...don't quit turkey hunting now. You'll never make it to 20 dead turkeys if you quit now. 

  

Mike


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## aj.hiner (Mar 12, 2014)

MKW said:


> No, no...don't quit turkey hunting now. You'll never make it to 20 dead turkeys if you quit now.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I haven't killed 1 yet that's my goal this year to kill a Jake. The one in my avatar was actually my buddies he let me take a pic with it


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## MKW (Mar 12, 2014)

Awe, I'm sure you've killed a couple, just not very many.  It's fine, I haven't killed many either.

Mike


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## strutlife (Mar 12, 2014)

IMO, there isn't another turkey gun other than an 835/935 mossberg. Benelli, Remington, Stoeger, whatever. Mossberg has made a killin on the sale of 835/935's and most of them are used just for turkey hunting. I know mine is. And I do shoot 3 1/2. Shot lasered 40 yds yesterday, Mossberg 935, Sumtoy 675, Hevi #7 3.5. 427 pellets in a 12" circle.


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## triton196 (Mar 12, 2014)

my gun patterns 3 inch better than 3.5 for whatever reason I don't know


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## hawglips (Mar 13, 2014)

strutlife said:


> IMO, there isn't another turkey gun other than an 835/935 mossberg. Benelli, Remington, Stoeger, whatever. Mossberg has made a killin on the sale of 835/935's and most of them are used just for turkey hunting. I know mine is. And I do shoot 3 1/2. Shot lasered 40 yds yesterday, Mossberg 935, Sumtoy 675, Hevi #7 3.5. 427 pellets in a 12" circle.



That's very impressive.  At 40 yds, 427 pellets in a 12" circle; each pellet giving 1.37" penetration.

I'm not sure the 835/935 is the only turkey gun though, because here's a better performing turkey gun setup:







It's a 20 ga Remington putting 429 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yds, each pellet giving 2" of penetration.

And it hardly kicks at all...


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## cowhornedspike (Mar 13, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That's very impressive.  At 40 yds, 427 pellets in a 12" circle; each pellet giving 1.37" penetration.
> 
> I'm not sure the 835/935 is the only turkey gun though, because here's a better performing turkey gun setup:
> 
> ...



That pic's gotta be fake Hal because we learned earlier that a 20 can't put more than 180 in the circle.   Didn't you read the entire thread?


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## Timber1 (Mar 13, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That's very impressive.  At 40 yds, 427 pellets in a 12" circle; each pellet giving 1.37" penetration.
> 
> I'm not sure the 835/935 is the only turkey gun though, because here's a better performing turkey gun setup:
> 
> ...



Kicks you in the other end... 
How much for a box of 10?...


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## aj.hiner (Mar 13, 2014)

Will someone get with me on a box of these TSS #8 shot? I would like to try them out


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## Timber1 (Mar 13, 2014)

cowhornedspike said:


> That pic's gotta be fake Hal because we learned earlier that a 20 can't put more than 180 in the circle.   Didn't you read the entire thread?



And you gotta hold high for the drop....lol


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## hawglips (Mar 13, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Kicks you in the other end...
> How much for a box of 10?...



About $65 probably.   That's about half as much as I'll spend on turkey hunting gas next weekend.


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## dawg2 (Mar 13, 2014)

I just bought 4 boxes of 3-1/2's at Wal Mart.  Only place I could find them.  Nothing like a good, solid punch in the arm in the morning


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## Timber1 (Mar 13, 2014)

hawglips said:


> About $65 probably.   That's about half as much as I'll spend on turkey hunting gas next weekend.



Thats not too bad. 

If you would quit riding the roads looking for turks to shoot your gas bill would come down.


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## hawglips (Mar 13, 2014)

Timber1 said:


> Thats not too bad.
> 
> If you would quit riding the roads looking for turks to shoot your gas bill would come down.



I wish I lived where I could do that.  I haven't seen a turkey while driving in 3 years -- other than a bird I saw on I-95 last summer....


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## Brad C. (Mar 13, 2014)

hawglips said:


> That's very impressive.  At 40 yds, 427 pellets in a 12" circle; each pellet giving 1.37" penetration.
> 
> I'm not sure the 835/935 is the only turkey gun though, because here's a better performing turkey gun setup:
> 
> ...



Yea Hal, but how do you think a 835 would shoot that same size load?


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## Gaswamp (Mar 14, 2014)

01Foreman400 said:


> You got some explainin to do.....First off, where did you find 3 1/3 ammo.    Seriously tell me about this picture.  Gun, choke and ammo?



Darryl, here is the original thread
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=176727&highlight=


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