# What is a good sized "group" when shooting a bow?



## chambers270

I am still pretty new to bowhunting and since I got this new bow I have been shooting alot more. I can see a difference already in my accuracy. 

I was wondering what exactly is a good sized "group?" With say 4 or 5 arrows at 20 yards? How about 30 yards too? Today I was shooting from 3 to 4 inch groups at 20 yards. Is this pretty good or do I need to work on it somemore before bowseason?

Thanks
Chris


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## cowboyron

3 - 4 is good.....that will get-r-done on a deer

but of course the tighter the better......but then they say that about lots of other thangs too.


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## matthewsman

*Go get'em tiger...*

A good rule of thumb is if your group is the size of a paper plate you are ready...What ever distance thatis....If you are confident to 20yds go for it.....

Keep practicing,it's fun.........


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## short stop

I voted avg group to be 2.5 -3.5 . But with todays  equipment at 20  yrds you should have to aim at a  diff spot every time  at 20 --I  eneded up refletching  2out 5 the  other nite punching 1spot   just  to get a feel  on my group   All were  within 1.5 ''  
-Last time I do that for kicks


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## stev

chambers270 said:
			
		

> I am still pretty new to bowhunting and since I got this new bow I have been shooting alot more. I can see a difference already in my accuracy.
> 
> I was wondering what exactly is a good sized "group?" With say 4 or 5 arrows at 20 yards? How about 30 yards too? Today I was shooting from 3 to 4 inch groups at 20 yards. Is this pretty good or do I need to work on it somemore before bowseason?
> 
> Thanks
> Chris


what your shooting is good for whitetail. with more practice tighten up and shoot tree rats on the ground.


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## nicktkd

i  cut quarter sized holes in  a piece of cardstock papper and painted dots  on the back of my block ,12 of them and at 20 yards i can hit around 9-10 most of the time...when i get a new doz. arrows i number them and write where they hit and see if there is a pattern,like one arrow is always 2" or whatever out of the circle...


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## reylamb

The usual rule of thumb is that for "hunting accuracy" 1 inch groups per 10 yards from the target.  In my experience, some folks consider a 10" group at 20 to be good enough....I ain't one of those folks however.


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## matthewsman

*I feel like you feel*



			
				reylamb said:
			
		

> The usual rule of thumb is that for "hunting accuracy" 1 inch groups per 10 yards from the target.  In my experience, some folks consider a 10" group at 20 to be good enough....I ain't one of those folks however.


 but for a newbie just starting out,8-9 inches at the most.........I can do that with no sights on the ground with a recurve.....but I won't hunt with it like that either...


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## displacedhntr

Sounds like your ready to get in the woods.  I would suggest starting to shoot a different spot with each arrow.  I cant afford carbon express arrows anymore.  I almost dont want to waste them on deer anymore. Who am I kidding I spend ten dollars a shot if he is a big boy.


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## Killdee

matthewsman said:
			
		

> A good rule of thumb is if your group is the size of a paper plate you are ready
> 
> 
> Dang I thought it was a garbage can lid...


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## BOWHUNTER!

reylamb said:
			
		

> The usual rule of thumb is that for "hunting accuracy" 1 inch groups per 10 yards from the target.  In my experience, some folks consider a 10" group at 20 to be good enough....I ain't one of those folks however.



That isn't acceptable for me either. Even when I was new to bowhunting, a 10in group was not good enough for me. Your rule of thumb is a pretty good one.


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## chambers270

Man there are alot more people shooting around 1 inch everytime at 20 yards than I thought. Is that with a hunting setup or a comp. bow?

The last couple of groups were all right at 3 1/4 inch. Looks pretty good to me, a few of those I was also shooting sitting down. I actually seem to hold the bow steadier sitting than standing. Seems strange to me.

Well I have another couple of weeks to practice. I would like to knock another inch off, but I feel pretty good about a 3 inch group at 20 yards since that is smaller than a deer's heart.

Thanks
Chris


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## short stop

My  groups are  with a Bowtech Tribute  at 20 yrds -hunting setup only  --if I couldnt hit a 1'' dot   it would be time to figure out what was wrong .30 yrd  groups I settle for a groups size  of  a baseball ----paper plate  size groups   are for shotguns


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## Spinnerbait Nate

The top of a beer or coke can at 10,20,30,40 yards is great. Disciplin your self it will pay off.


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## matthewsman

*You'd be amazed at the bunch of 240's our guys post*



			
				chambers270 said:
			
		

> Man there are alot more people shooting around 1 inch everytime at 20 yards than I thought. Is that with a hunting setup or a comp. bow?



 

Don't worry when you get a shot on a deer for the first time your groups will open up...Ask the 1" group of guys if they've ever shot over under or otherwise missed a deer,If they haven't they haven't hunted very much...........

Your groups are fine.Now get up in an elevated position(on a deck,roof,or backyard stand),and shoot down into your target.See if your form holds up.You'll prolly drop your bow arm initially,hitting high.Bend at the waist instead of dropping your arm and you'll tighten your groups right back up.If you plan on using a face mask,shoot with it on too.Some masks make it harder to feel the string on your skin,making you change your anchor point.

Also concentrate on holding the bow up after the shot.I have made bad shots more than once from dropping the bow(peeking)to see where my arrow hit.I never have that problem on targets,but I'll do it on deer everytime if I don't make a concentrated effort not to....I guess I want to see where they run,how they react etc............

With the amount of shooting you're doing,you'll be fine,new bow and all,this season.


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## NorthGaBowhunter

chambers270 said:
			
		

> I am still pretty new to bowhunting and since I got this new bow I have been shooting alot more. I can see a difference already in my accuracy.
> 
> I was wondering what exactly is a good sized "group?" With say 4 or 5 arrows at 20 yards? How about 30 yards too? Today I was shooting from 3 to 4 inch groups at 20 yards. Is this pretty good or do I need to work on it somemore before bowseason?
> 
> Thanks
> Chris


chris are you sure your bow is tuned? do you have the proper draw length? are your shafts spined correct? do you have a level in your sight? how is your form? let us see a good pic of your bow.have you done a walkback tune? I bet you can shoot better 20 yd groups than that.


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## Killdee

Concentrate on making the first shot count every time you practice.Over the years Ive seen a lot of folks who were murder on spots who couldnt hit deer.If you have a 3-d target move it around behind bushs at different angles and ranges and shoot off your deck or stand.


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## reylamb

The truth is, I don't worry about groups for bowhunting.  The first arrow is the only one that matters.  I will just grab the hunting bow, go to some random distance, shoot one arrow.  If it is within 3" of where I was aiming it is good to go.  If not, something is wrong with the bow or me and it is time to figure out what that is.

A 2" grouping at 20 yards (my 1" per 10yds rule) will make you a low mid 280's - low 290's shooter on a Vegas face target.  Anyone that can hit a 1" dot every single time at 20 yards stands to make an absolute ton of money shooting target archery.  Jesse Broadwater walked out of Vegas this year with over $20k from that shoot, 90+ arrows, all of them hitting a dot 1" large.


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## Dub

The Archer's Minute of Angle(1" for every 10 yards) is sort of what I judge my groups by.  Of course this is just practicing from known distances and shooting at a stationary target.

All of my best groups in the world don't mean a hill of beans if I don't stay cool and use good form on that ONE shot that counts on a deer that I've chosen to kill.  

The best thing that I can say the "group" shooting has done for me is show me when I'm off.  I can then figure out which issue is causing me trouble and fix it.  Good groups tell me I'm holding steady and following through after the shot properly.  There are so many parallels to the golf swing.

Hopefully this repetition during practice will increase the odds that I'll do the right thing when taking those kill shots this season.

I missed a mountable buck a couple years ago and it has haunted me ever since.   It has helped me focus when I'm shooting so much more.  Mentally, I'm not just poking at dots....I'm picking a small target and trying to connect.  

Automatically when I look at magazines or hunting videos of shooter deer the first thing I do is pick the target...small...tuft of hair, crease behind shoulder, etc.  I'm sure that I'll miss deer again...but is sure as heck wont be 'cause I didn't aim at a specific spot.


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## toddboucher

I like my arrows to group in the size of a coke can, I quess its about 2-3" at any distance. Getting ready for hunting I want my group at 30 to look like my group at 20 or I have no need shooting at 30. In target shooting every now and then I say what happened? 
But in hunting I don't have that choice, I must be sure I can make it.


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## Rob

Do not get caught up in the size of the groups everyone claims, your 3" groups @ 20 yards will kill a deer.  

I too was amazed at the number of people claiming to shoot less than 2.5", currently 56% of the people claim to shoot that size or the smaller size.  I use to shoot a lot of indoor leagues and half the people in my leagues (S. Ga and Wisconsin) were not 300 shooters (a 300 shooter keeps 60 arrows in the 5 ring - which is bigger than 2.5").  As a matter of fact the last league I shot in there were 30 people and only two of us maintained a 300 average for the entire league.  There were a lot of people that were 290-299 - which I guess you could discount or ignore the occasionally bad arrow and consider your group to be that size.  So do not discouraged, concentrate on your form and your groups will be there.



			
				chambers270 said:
			
		

> Man there are alot more people shooting around 1 inch everytime at 20 yards than I thought. Is that with a hunting setup or a comp. bow?
> 
> The last couple of groups were all right at 3 1/4 inch. Looks pretty good to me, a few of those I was also shooting sitting down. I actually seem to hold the bow steadier sitting than standing. Seems strange to me.
> 
> Well I have another couple of weeks to practice. I would like to knock another inch off, but I feel pretty good about a 3 inch group at 20 yards since that is smaller than a deer's heart.
> 
> Thanks
> Chris


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## Branchminnow

FOR ME, I want my arrows touching one another


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## huntnnut

I've always liked to be able to wrap my thumb and my index finger around a 5 arrow group.  As long as I can do that consistently I feel I can kill a deer w/o any problem as long as it's within the same range.


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## chambers270

NorthGaBowhunter said:
			
		

> chris are you sure your bow is tuned? do you have the proper draw length? are your shafts spined correct? do you have a level in your sight? how is your form? let us see a good pic of your bow.have you done a walkback tune? I bet you can shoot better 20 yd groups than that.



The bow is only a few weeks old so I guess it should be tuned. My draw length feels just right to me. I dont have a clue if a shaft is spined correct. But I just got all my arrows refletched from a guy that has been doing it over 20 years. I feel like I anchor to the same point every time. And I do have a level on my sight. 

I generally miss up and down more than side to side. I dont have a digital camera so I can not post a pic. But it is a Matthews Switchback XT with a Trophy Ridge Sight, and a Whisker Bisquit. And I dont have a stabilizer or silencers on it.

I am about to go shoot some more today, I will post the results later.

Thanks
Chris


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## kcausey

I group once.....then separate targets.  Grouping is too expensive.  I used to be more disciplined when I had more time.....I am happy with a 3" group at 25 yards these days...which will kill any animal I'll be shooting at....The chance of hitting that 1/2" spot your aiming at that 100lb doe or 250lb buck at 25 yards is nearly impossible anyway.....they're gonna flinch, unless your shooting 750fps......I just want a "vital sized" group I guess.  
Chuck Adams did a project by taking a chainsaw to a 250lb Kansas buck's chest cavity....all the goods were in a 8"x8"x8 1/2" area....give or take due to contour.....so I say anyone that can hit a 6" oval from a decent distance is a lethal archer.
my 2 cents
KIP


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## jason308

I feel best with a 3 inch group or less, but like Reylamb said before long it will be out the back door with one arrow at an unknown distance and see where it hits....if I am in the kill zone each time, I am ready. One more thing- you MUST practice in the conditions you will encounter in the woods-what I mean is climb a tree to the approximate height you will be hunting from and shoot a 3D deer at different angles (quartering towards, away, etc) to get a feel for where to shoot-that is what I need to work on the most. You will have to shoot at a different spot than the 20 yd broadside shot to puncture the vitals, and the 3D target will help you get a feel for this.


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## NorthGaBowhunter

270 thats a fine bow you have there have one myself. do you touch your string to the tip of your nose when you shoot . and have you checked to make sure you have the correct spine shaft. sounds like everything is fine.


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## chambers270

NorthGaBowhunter said:
			
		

> 270 thats a fine bow you have there have one myself. do you touch your string to the tip of your nose when you shoot . and have you checked to make sure you have the correct spine shaft. sounds like everything is fine.



I dont touch the string to my nose, I just use my kisser button and it works for me. For the first year I shot a bow I didn't use a kisser button. I did not know abou them, I guess I was just anchoring in the same place everytime.

How do you check the spine shaft?

Thanks
Chris


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## NorthGaBowhunter

chambers270 said:
			
		

> I dont touch the string to my nose, I just use my kisser button and it works for me. For the first year I shot a bow I didn't use a kisser button. I did not know abou them, I guess I was just anchoring in the same place everytime.
> 
> How do you check the spine shaft?
> 
> Thanks
> Chris


hey chris go to easton archery and check the chart. better yet ask reylamb about it . what shaft are you shooting and what weight are pulling and fieldpoint weight?


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## gabowman

chambers270 said:
			
		

> I was wondering what exactly is a good sized "group?" With say 4 or 5 arrows at 20 yards? How about 30 yards too? Today I was shooting from 3 to 4 inch groups at 20 yards. Is this pretty good or do I need to work on it somemore before bowseason?
> 
> Thanks
> Chris



When the time of truth comes and you're drawing on that buck and you can maintain the confidence level to keep your arrows inside the 3-4 inch groupings then you're ready. To me stacking arrows doesnt mean that much other than building confidence just knowing you're going to hit where you're looking. By all means keep practicing. Also I highly recommend you find a decent broadhead target and become just as efficient shooting broadheads as you are with field points. Just know your limitations and only take killing shots (nothing marginal) and you'll do fine. BTW, I said 2.5-3.5 which includes any "fliers" but I dont try shooting groups. Arrows costs too much.


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## chambers270

NorthGaBowhunter said:
			
		

> hey chris go to easton archery and check the chart. better yet ask reylamb about it . what shaft are you shooting and what weight are pulling and fieldpoint weight?



Super Carbon Hunter 55-70 (29 inches)which 
weigh 305 grains

62 lbs draw weight

100 grain fieldpoints

I just bought a Block today from the Bass Pro, I can not wait to let some arrows fly into it! Well I guess I can wait because it is actually raining in SE Georgia! 

Thanks
Chris


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