# Let the .41 mag talk



## tcward (Jan 2, 2021)

Shot about 65 yards. Old Blackhawk did good.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 2, 2021)

Congrats ????


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## furtaker (Jan 2, 2021)

Nice kill and nice pistol!


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## JustUs4All (Jan 2, 2021)

Congratulations.


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## 4HAND (Jan 2, 2021)

Wow. Congratulations!


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## Browning Slayer (Jan 2, 2021)

Go Dawgs with a .41! Awesome!


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## Ray357 (Jan 3, 2021)

tcward said:


> Shot about 65 yards. Old Blackhawk did good.View attachment 1058530


41 mag is on my bucket list of guns to own.


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## Dub (Jan 3, 2021)

Heck yeah !!!!!

Got it done very well.

Is that a Weaver mount you are using ?

Been looking at options for a Blackhawk and was wondering how that one has done for you.


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## blood on the ground (Jan 3, 2021)

Yessir!


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## tcward (Jan 3, 2021)

Dub said:


> Heck yeah !!!!!
> 
> Got it done very well.
> 
> ...


Yes it is the weaver mount with Leupold rings. Probably have fired 100 or so rounds through it with no POI shift change. Using full power 210 grain hand load.


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## Dub (Jan 3, 2021)

tcward said:


> Yes it is the weaver mount with Leupold rings. Probably have fired 100 or so rounds through it with no POI shift change. Using full power 210 grain hand load.



Sounds great.    Thanks for the insight.

Been looking at options.



Archery & handgun kills yield the tastiest backstraps.  

At least to the folks who made the shot & recovery.


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## 1eyefishing (Jan 3, 2021)

My 6 1/2" model 657-2 is on my hip for the rest of the season.
 It's 1 of 500 made. Serial #237.
 It has a few notches on the handle, but needs another.
 My reloader's manual says my hot .41mag hand loads are faster, flatter, and carry more energy than a factory 44 mag.


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## tcward (Jan 3, 2021)

1eyefishing said:


> My 6 1/2" model 657-2 is on my hip for the rest of the season.
> It's 1 of 500 made. Serial #237.
> It has a few notches on the handle, but needs another.
> My reloader's manual says my hot .41mag hand loads are faster, flatter, and carry more energy than a factory 44 mag.
> ...


Sweet!


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## wvdawg (Jan 3, 2021)

Nice!  Congrats!  I need to get my Blackhawk to the woods.


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## 1eyefishing (Jan 3, 2021)

There was once an excellent article in Shooting Times magazine about the 41 magnum revolver as a hunting weapon.
Great reading for any .41mag fan...
 I saved the magazine for years, but don't know its whereabouts now. If anybody could dig up a link to this, I would love to read it again. (You would too.)
Late 80's or early 90's I guess...  The author said that he guessed this is really what Elmer Keith was aiming for when he developed the .44 magnum.


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## pacecars (Jan 3, 2021)

Excellent job! Before I became a 10mm addict I was a .41 Mag addict. I had a T/C Contender Super 14 and several S&W 57s and 657s including one of the above unfluted models (should have kept that one). It is about time I get back into the .41 Mag. I really wish I would have kept the 357 PD though


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## Michael F Sights (Jan 4, 2021)

Nice !!!


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## NWS (Jan 6, 2021)

1eyefishing said:


> There was once an excellent article in Shooting Times magazine about the 41 magnum revolver as a hunting weapon.
> Great reading for any .41mag fan...
> I saved the magazine for years, but don't know its whereabouts now. If anybody could dig up a link to this, I would love to read it again. (You would too.)
> Late 80's or early 90's I guess...  The author said that he guessed this is really what Elmer Keith was aiming for when he developed the .44 magnum.


Elmer Keith’s classic book “Guns & Ammo for Hunting Big Game” has an entire chapter devoted to handguns for big game. He tells the entire story about the development of the 41 Mag with some cool photos.


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## sleepr71 (Jan 7, 2021)

Always wanted a 6-8” .41 mag Revolver to hunt with. Great caliber & performs awesome?


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

tcward said:


> Shot about 65 yards. Old Blackhawk did good.View attachment 1058530


I have one like it but need to make a bullet mold for it. 
Nice job.


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## Newt2 (Jul 26, 2021)

I shiver every time the .41 magnum is brought up. My main deer guns were .41 magnum. First the 6.5 inch Blackhawk then the 7.5 inch Redhawk. For a lead bullet, I like the Lyman 220gr Keith.


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

I love deer hunting with revolvers and have depended on the SBH .44 for years with a mold I made for a 330 gr bullet. Then I discovered the BFR revolvers, most accurate ever. I started with the cannon 45-70 that needs a carriage. I made a mold to find the gun is too fast at 1632 fps and does little internal damage as the bullet goes through too fast. It is hard to maintain needed case tension but I have hit 1" targets at 100 yards from a rest. Next was the .475 Linebaugh with my 429 gr bullet at 1348 fps. Deer just vanish when out of the huge recoil as the drop right there. Then I had to get the .500 JRH and with my 440 gr it starts to penetrate too fast at 1350 fps but will shoot 5 shots touching at 50 yards and has done under 1" at 100 yards. It will drop most deer right now.


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

I will tell you a secret about the .44 and .41, do NOT use a magnum primer with 296 or H110. It will triple groups. What happens is the stronger primer will break case tension and release the bullet too soon. I won Ohio state IHMSA with 79 out of 80 with Federal 150 primers and won almost every revolver production shoot with the SBH. 
I flushed out all the accuracy that a good revolver can do and any help you need, I can answer. 
.44 mag hard cast at 70yards.
.475 exit


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

A few more pictures 
I set five empties at 50 yards on their sides and shot each into the bases,  lost two in the weeds. 500 JRH
12 gauge at 100 yards with JRH. I use Ultra Dots now.


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## Railroader (Jul 26, 2021)

Impressive shooting! Hat tip! ?


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I shiver every time the .41 magnum is brought up. My main deer guns were .41 magnum. First the 6.5 inch Blackhawk then the 7.5 inch Redhawk. For a lead bullet, I like the Lyman 220gr Keith.


I have a Smithy granite 1324 in my basement. I bought two cast iron risers and made a vice that turns to center. I design my own bullets and turn the cherries for my molds. No store bought mold has ever shot better. I equal or exceed the XTP Hornady bullets that are the best.
I have sent some bullets to fellows to get duplicated but they always changed something to double groups. The amount I have learned is out of sight. Even my 30-30 Marlin will do 3/4" at 100 yards.
Drop test of my .44.


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## James Miner (Jul 26, 2021)

I can show how to get a trigger pull of crazy numbers on Ruger's and BFR's. My SBH is 1-1/2#, 45-70 BFR is 19 oz. No failures to fire.
i solved the double firing pin strikes and doubling on S&W revolvers. I informed S&W and they said it was operator error but now do what I said. I found most revolver calibers do not need a gas check, I was wasting time and money.
Just ask.


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## Newt2 (Jul 26, 2021)

I reloaded, but never got really involved. I worked up loads to shoot sub 2" at 50 yards at the highest possible velocity. Taking deer at up to 100 yards was no problem with my .41 or .357 even. Not bragging (yes I am), but of the dozens of deer I've taken, all were one shot stops except one using Remington 210gr soft points.


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## James Miner (Jul 27, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I reloaded, but never got really involved. I worked up loads to shoot sub 2" at 50 yards at the highest possible velocity. Taking deer at up to 100 yards was no problem with my .41 or .357 even. Not bragging (yes I am), but of the dozens of deer I've taken, all were one shot stops except one using Remington 210gr soft points.


Yes, the .41 is great but the .357 needs attention to bullet construction. The ideal is two holes with damage internally enough to bleed them fast or disrupt the nervous system. I have taken about 150 deer with revolvers and have learned a bullet must slow in passage yet not stop inside. Energy must be given up and when enough, any left after passage is moot. sometimes looking for the fastest bullet you can get can can lead to lost animals.
Gallon jugs of water are good to test on. My .475 will blow the first 4 to the moon, split the fifth and continue in a straight line through 17, never caught one yet. I watched a video where a guy hung water balloons and shot with his .44 and actually caught the bullet in a balloon. If I remember it was only 5---NO GOOD at all.
I shot many deer with the 240 gr XTP and close to dark it took a trip home for a fishing lantern to track. I found all and also the mushroomed bullet inside so I went to the 300 gr XTP and tracking ended. Quick energy dump and penetration. I went to cast and some of my revolvers have never seen copper.


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## James Miner (Jul 27, 2021)

I applaud all of you that handgun hunt, great sport.
Once I was able to break small water bottles off hand at 100 but now at 84 with a few health problems there is a gnome swinging on the end of my barrels! I need some way to rest the gun now. I suggest you never get old.


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## Newt2 (Jul 27, 2021)

James Miner said:


> I suggest you never get old.


Too late. I'm already there. I can't hunt anymore.


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## Newt2 (Jul 27, 2021)

James Miner said:


> Yes, the .41 is great but the .357 needs attention to bullet construction.


I used factory loads with the .357. Federal Hydra-Shok and Speer Gold Dot. In both calibers, I found one .41 Mag 170gr Sierra that passed thru and stopped in the leg and the one Hydra-Shok .357 blew apart on his neck. Had lead all over that thing.


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## tcward (Jul 28, 2021)

James Miner said:


> I can show how to get a trigger pull of crazy numbers on Ruger's and BFR's. My SBH is 1-1/2#, 45-70 BFR is 19 oz. No failures to fire.
> i solved the double firing pin strikes and doubling on S&W revolvers. I informed S&W and they said it was operator error but now do what I said. I found most revolver calibers do not need a gas check, I was wasting time and money.
> Just ask.


I relieved one of the hammer springs off of my Blackhawk. Reduced trigger pull about a pound.


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## James Miner (Jul 28, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> Too late. I'm already there. I can't hunt anymore.


It does not creep up on you, it slaps you silly! I had farms to hunt with unlimited damage tags and donated a lot of meat to the poor. At one time it was free but now I would have to pay for a butcher.
Gone are the days when I carried a 10#, .54 Hawken in deep snow, up and down mountains tracking deer. A revolver in a shoulder holster came next. Pure joy! 
Some tips on tracking in snow, walk in the deer tracks because they make large circles like rabbits. One day I passed my truck 7 times until I shot one. If there are other hunters and you come to a clearing, stop and post because if they run into a hunter, they will backtrack to you. If deer go over a hill, get off to the side and crawl to peek over, they will stand at the bottom and watch up the hill. 
Soon I will tell you how to fool white tails so they forget about you and you can even make one come to you. Last time I could walk OK, I made one come to me from 100 yards until I put a .500 JRH through her.
By the way, blaze orange is the best camo ever made. Forget patterns on it, just more expensive.


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## James Miner (Jul 28, 2021)

tcward said:


> I relieved one of the hammer springs off of my Blackhawk. Reduced trigger pull about a pound.


NO, NO and NO again!!! You have just removed what the gun can do. Shooting IHMSA a time came when I would miss. I found the hammer spring weakened and took a set so I bought them by the dozen until I tried Wolff over power springs. Every one of my Ruger's and BFR's gets a 26# over power variable. BFR is a large Ruger by the way, Pine Tree makes the castings and Magnum Research has a company that does the machining to very tight specs, faster twist rates, and today Green Mountain barrels. Most of mine have Badger barrels.
To do the trigger, stone the hammer to remove creep, leave the trigger alone. Now bend the trigger spring to reduce pull on it. You can unhook an end too. Now add a stronger hammer spring as it does not affect pull and the primer MUST be struck with a heavy force for accuracy.
Now the tricky part, the transfer bar! Most are too short and if your trigger kicks your finger ahead, it will nick the pin and cause a hang fire or it will drop below it and fail to fire. I make my own transfer bars by hand from tool steel, harden and temper them. At full cock the bar covers almost the entire pin. You have to fit the length for your Ruger or the bar can run above the lug at the top of the hammer and will not fire.
See if you can see it here.
You can buy a few new ones and find the longest, they seem to vary a lot.
The very worst thing to do is to reduce the hammer or firing pin spring on any gun.


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## Newt2 (Jul 28, 2021)

James Miner said:


> It does not creep up on you, it slaps you silly! I had farms to hunt with unlimited damage tags and donated a lot of meat to the poor. At one time it was free but now I would have to pay for a butcher.
> Gone are the days when I carried a 10#, .54 Hawken in deep snow, up and down mountains tracking deer. A revolver in a shoulder holster came next. Pure joy!
> Some tips on tracking in snow, walk in the deer tracks because they make large circles like rabbits. One day I passed my truck 7 times until I shot one. If there are other hunters and you come to a clearing, stop and post because if they run into a hunter, they will backtrack to you. If deer go over a hill, get off to the side and crawl to peek over, they will stand at the bottom and watch up the hill.
> Soon I will tell you how to fool white tails so they forget about you and you can even make one come to you. Last time I could walk OK, I made one come to me from 100 yards until I put a .500 JRH through her.
> By the way, blaze orange is the best camo ever made. Forget patterns on it, just more expensive.


I have many stories I could tell, but I am a lot like you. I've followed does looking for a buck and got so close I was able to slap their butt. Even when taking a smoke break I had deer come to me when the wind was right. I hunted western NY, slug, muzzleloader, pistol only, and blaze orange was the norm. Still doesn't help sometimes. You know you can see a shotgun slug in flight when it is coming towards you? I do! Here is my usual hunting garb:


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## James Miner (Jul 29, 2021)

Very good choice.
I will start here a little, you know what the deer does when one comes into view and you see each other? The deer does not know what you are so they stamp their foot. This is not to warn other deer, it is a recognition signal to you so do the same back and if she does the head bob, do it back. There are usually other deer around and they will show when you settle the first. I have been in the center of a whole herd, upwind and downwind. I would kneel for a shot with my bow or walk to a tree for a gun rest. They paid me no attention at all. Once I settled a doe with young. The little one was frisky and ran past me a long way, then turned and ran back, stopped next to me to look at momma so close I could touch it.
Then one morning before work I walked up the hill in the woods next door to see if there were acorns and bounced a big doe out of bed. I stamped my foot over and over, she came back and laid back in her bed just 12 yards from me. I stood there scanning trees for squirrels as she licked her sides. Had to go to work so I walked past and she bounced up again, I laughed at her.
I have not figured how to stamp the ground from a tree stand!  
Deer will pick up the slightest movement or a dark blob but they really can't see well. Act like a deer and they can't tell. They will bolt from a high frequency sound but not low ones. New bows can be a problem, emitting sounds we can't hear. 
Another day I left my stand at dark and bungled into 20 deer feeding on alfalfa. I settled them and followed them at 40 yards for 500 yards. I decided to scream at them with the noise a deer makes when she runs off. I took my pack off and laid it and my bow down, took off in a noisy run to the side, smashing branches and sticks when I got to the woods. Figured that would get rid of them--NOPE, I followed them to the end of the field.
You will have a lot of fun doing something I learned on my first deer hunt. I came face to face with a doe, froze which I found is WRONG as a pile of deer bolted. I wondered what the foot stamp was about, slept on it and tried it on a young buck the next day. I let him walk to me and pass me at 2 feet. I shot a deer with my bow every single time I went hunting to the dismay of the archery club members.


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## James Miner (Jul 29, 2021)

A funny story, bow hunting PA. Everyone left camp before daylight and came back empty. Ken and I visited a large group camped above us. I told them to sleep in and go hunt chipmunks, eat lunch and hunt in the afternoon. They said you shoot CHIPMUNKS? I said yeah and the next day I took them 7 tails.
On Friday I told them I know where a big doe is and I will shoot her at 6 PM Saturday. They all looked at me and each other with grins. Sat night I drove my truck into their camp with the big doe, said I was off time by 10 minutes.
They never talked to us again. We hung the deer from a tree next to the tent and I tied a string from a leg, under the leaves to a pile of pots and pans with silverware inside. In the middle of the night it all crashed and we heard footsteps running away.


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## Newt2 (Jul 29, 2021)

James Miner said:


> The deer does not know what you are so they stamp their foot. This is not to warn other deer, it is a recognition signal to you so do the same back and if she does the head bob, do it back.


I had a different experience with that. If a deer spots me I freeze. You are a threat and the deer wants to see if you will move. It is the same with the head bob.

I enjoy still hunting. I enter an area and slowly move through looking for deer. Once I spot a nice one, I stalk it to move in for a clean shot.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

I found freezing doesn't work, it is the same a predator does like a big cat. If you settle them you can move. Try it next time. Stalking is different as you avoid being seen at the start. If they catch you, do the foot stamp and it also works if you are on your knees, just hit your fist in the ground over and over.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

I suggest the way to do everything is to test, even on revolvers. Test primers, etc. I have been in the gun thing my whole life and made many custom rifles, checkered and carved. Many of my stocks came from planks I cut from fallen trees and cured. Like this on I made from cherry for my 1919 Swede.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

Then my PA rifles 
I made all the parts except the barrels, trigger guards, butt plates and locks. I also engraved them.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

I also made my .54 Hawken. But my passion was making revolvers shoot as good as rifles, even to 500 meters.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

Not only guns but furniture too. Coffee tables and this pie safe from a fallen white oak.


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## James Miner (Jul 30, 2021)

Soon I will show how to make your case tension on revolver rounds work for you.


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## Newt2 (Jul 30, 2021)

I can't hunt anymore so I'll take your word for it.


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## James Miner (Jul 31, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I can't hunt anymore so I'll take your word for it.


That makes me feel bad but do you still get out to shoot? 
I have a bum ankle and can't walk in the woods anymore. I don't have far to walk on a trail to get to a stand, it does take much longer though.


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## James Miner (Jul 31, 2021)

Let's go a little. Case tension is what controls the burn for accuracy. NOT crimp and if you crimp too hard you will ruin the tension. If you shoot cast, you have to use hard lead like water dropped wheel weight bullets. Soft will squeeze down. Anyway back in the early 80's I knew something was wrong by how it felt to seat bullets. I experimented by sorting but feel is not enough. I had BR .44 dies made to fit my normal press. They use sizing rings like the Redding dies. I found brass could not be sorted to size, back to the drawing board. Next I took 50 new cases and shot all from a rest at 50 to find 7 different group positions I sorted by where the bullet went to a group. It worked but brass changes as it is shot so all goes bad again. New brass at the first firing is the worst.
I contacted alien's with my special hat to come up with this.1/8" spring steel rod anchored at the base of the handle. The short rod is graduated and has a slip link to the long rod. a faucet washer rides it. You have to drill a hole for it in the handle. I just start the bullet and seat with the rod, it bends and leaves the washer at a mark. Put that round in a marked spot on the bench. Reset the washer and load the next. Do not crimp with the rod, go to the handle. You will have about 6 piles of loads and each will do almost one hole at 50.  Mix them and 3 to 4" will be good.
Then I found Hornady New Dimension dies are the only dies to make accurate loads, No other works as well.
Sadly this setup does not work for rifle loads as the press handle gets too low. Cost is almost nothing and you can buy piano wire at a hobby shop.


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## James Miner (Jul 31, 2021)

Bullet diameter for a revolver is important, the XTP's are .430 and work well. Cast has to be .001 to .002 over groove so you have to slug your bore. Pure round balls work well. I like Lee bullet sizing dies because I can lap them to fit. Don't use alox lube. Find the recipe for Felix lube, if you can't I will provide it. The lubes must be tested as groups can change drastically. 
LBT hard blue and Felix at 50, 5 shots.
I apply Felix by hand to run through the Lee die. This was the 310 gr Lee bullet that works well in the .44.


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## James Miner (Jul 31, 2021)

Twist is important and the 1 in 20 of the Ruger will support 330 gr and maybe more. BFR's are faster. My 45-70 has 1 in 14" and the .475 has 1 in 15". Dimension are super with the cylinder throats in the .475 at .4765 and groove at .475, I size .476.
Throats in the .45-70 are .4592 and groove is .458, I size .459.
The 500 JRH has throats of .5015 and groove of .500, size .501.
MY SBH has throats of .4324, groove .430, size .431. 
The throats can be larger then the bullet, no harm at all. Never smaller though. My SBH has around 190,000 rounds through it with no measurable wear, just some sand blasting at the cone. Long ago I changed the cone to 11 degrees.
After cleaning your revolver use STP oil treatment on the cylinder pin and a small drop on the ratchet. 
S&W has a 1 in 18" twist and 240 gr bullets will rotate around the flight path. looks like a corkscrew through a spotting scope. Moving to a 250 gr stops it for a smooth path.


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## James Miner (Jul 31, 2021)

S&W is a great gun with a flaw. The cylinder stop is poorly engineered and inertia can unlock the cylinder. It will rotate backwards and the .500 will double if there is a live round there. Even the recoil of the .44 will leave double strikes on the primer or a strike on the head of the case. The spring for the cylinder stop is too weak, I informed S&W, they said operator error but now offer stronger springs. 
You really need to see that the pressure from the primer will impinge the firing pin and send the hammer to near full cock, video shows it, even on SA's. The SA will not unlock and I don't know why.


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## Newt2 (Jul 31, 2021)

James Miner said:


> That makes me feel bad but do you still get out to shoot?
> I have a bum ankle and can't walk in the woods anymore. I don't have far to walk on a trail to get to a stand, it does take much longer though.


I shoot in my back yard. About all I can do now.


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## James Miner (Aug 1, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I shoot in my back yard. About all I can do now.


That's good, never quit or give up. If you load your own, try my methods.


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## James Miner (Aug 14, 2021)

One thing I forgot to mention is what is needed for bullet hardness as loads get lighter. Many love to load fast powders to reduce recoil for practice and that is fine. However as the powders get faster you need a harder bullet to resist deformation and slump from the instant pressure rise. My normal bullet is around 22 BHN with water dropped WW alloy but with 231 or Unique type powders I found going up to 30 BHN is best. Many of my tests have shown this. I have a picture of slump to show.  You can also see a change in rifling contact that will need a change in twist rates or a velocity you can't reach.
Then another thing I forgot is lube hardness. If you recover bullets with some lube left in grooves, that will play hob with accuracy. You want all lube to exit at muzzle release so soft is better.


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## James Miner (Aug 17, 2021)

I also want to tell you about cylinder play. Side to side play is needed to allow the cylinder to "clock" to the rifling. It does not take much here but those that love super tight and no cylinder turn will lose a lot of accuracy.


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## Newt2 (Aug 28, 2021)

My current .41 Magnum desire. The Charter Arms 41 Mag Pug. The 41 was my all time go to firearm, but it wasn't available in a compact carry gun - until now. All reviews show it to be a great performer yet the sharp recoil is a deterrent. If I had one, I would shoot cowboy loads for practice and then a light weight bullet for carry.

If I bought one now, I would get 1 box of premium defensive ammo, see how it shot then keep it as a bedside gun. The main thing for me is simply possessing one.


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## tcward (Aug 29, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> My current .41 Magnum desire. The Charter Arms 41 Mag Pug. The 41 was my all time go to firearm, but it wasn't available in a compact carry gun - until now. All reviews show it to be a great performer yet the sharp recoil is a deterrent. If I had one, I would shoot cowboy loads for practice and then a light weight bullet for carry.
> 
> If I bought one now, I would get 1 box of premium defensive ammo, see how it shot then keep it as a bedside gun. The main thing for me is simply possessing one.


Taurus makes a snubby also. The model 415.


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## James Miner (Aug 29, 2021)

That would do just fine. Hope you find one.


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## Seminole Wind (Aug 29, 2021)

James Miner said:


> I also want to tell you about cylinder play. Side to side play is needed to allow the cylinder to "clock" to the rifling. It does not take much here but those that love super tight and no cylinder turn will lose a lot of accuracy.


Mr. Miner, 
I appreciate the information you have provided. Please continue.


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## Newt2 (Aug 30, 2021)

tcward said:


> Taurus makes a snubby also. The model 415.


I don't think they are still in production.


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## James Miner (Aug 30, 2021)

Seminole Wind said:


> Mr. Miner,
> I appreciate the information you have provided. Please continue.


Thank you, I got my first .44 Ruger in 1956 so revolver work took many, many years. I am happy to pass on anything to help no matter how big or small. My love for revolvers has never stopped and I want all of you to get the best no matter what one you have. It matters not a thing to me what you prefer as long as you have fun.


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## tcward (Aug 30, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I don't think they are still in production.


Looks like you are right.


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## James Miner (Sep 10, 2021)

Gas checks??? What are they for? false stories abound like "they keep the base from melting." Or they let you shoot soft lead." Look at it my way, A cast bullet will skid the rifling, No if's and's or buts. If the skid passes the base it opens channels for gas to erode the lead resulting in a leaded gun. 
A gas check is a skid stop and will force the bullet to spin, 
closing the gas path. Recovered bullets still show skid but it stops before the base because my bullets are hard. Too soft and the skid passes the check and leads the check and bore. Then with a leaded bore the check can't wipe out lead, it rides over it packing it tighter. I have found no need for a check if the skid stops early. 
The worst ever are the dead soft .38's that squirt lead out of the gap and even lead the outside of a revolver.


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## James Miner (Sep 10, 2021)

More on gas checks. I make my molds for a tight fit and to keep the base perpendicular to the bullet I run an end mill across the top lightly once in the vise, before I lay out the cavities and center the cherry. I have to tap the checks on my bench to seat. Now to size, if you have an RCBS or Lyman sizer, you are good to go. But I like the Lee push through because to fit to a revolver I can buy a smaller die and lap to what I need. They can be problematic with checks. Do not use the Alox that comes with them, save it up and undercoat your car because all it is is Zeebart.
I lube by hand or pan lube and the best is if you have a flat nose bullet, center the nose on the punch and run through gas check first.
Sizing a bullet takes thought. Some say weird stuff like size to the throats so what if your cast is smaller to start? So you might think a larger sizer will work---NOT SO! NEVER size with a die larger then the bullet diameter, PERIOD. Here is the problem, the gas check will be larger then the bullet so when you seat in the case, the check will open the brass so you will lose all case tension.
Next I will tell you all how to cast perfect bullets so no. 1 until you empty a 20# pot you will have not have a single reject. Maybe tomorrow, later guys.


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## Nimrod71 (Sep 16, 2021)

I like 41's too.  I wish I had gotten one sooner.


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## James Miner (Sep 16, 2021)

Fellas, I have the Ruger BH in 41 but have been too lazy to make a mold. But too much fixing and work to do.


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## James Miner (Sep 16, 2021)

Bullet design has been a problem having tested about all molds sold. I seen all kinds of drawings on paper but none appeal. so I cut the cherry as I go. Mistakes have been made of course like my 30-30 bullet that came out at 193 gr with a long bore ride that is not supposed to work in a micro groove. I got off on diameter so the nose has to be sized first to .301" then the rest at .311". Crazy thing does 3/4" at 100. 
Then I found most revolver bullets with one wide GG do not shoot good except for the original Keith 429421. Back in the day I could bust rocks off hand on a RR bank at better then 400 yards but Lyman kept altering the molds and those cut with a re sharpened cherry are too small.
Then my .475 bullet with 2 GG's left a base drive band at .080". I was worried until I shot them to get amazing accuracy so I copied it for the .500 JRH to get at times an inch at 100. I sent some to a fellow and he changed it to have a mold made and those he sent me did not work as good. 
I cast two mornings and made .357, pure round balls, Maxi balls and 30-30, about 300 total with out a reject. Weight varies 4 tenths of a grain. 
I will get into casting soon, my computer had the blue screen of death this morning so I just got online.


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## James Miner (Sep 17, 2021)

Shooting long range with open sights is a challenge. The rear sight and front sight picture is different. When you elevate the barrel you will see the barrel through the rear sight. Put masking tape on the barrel and move it back until you get the edge of the tape at the sight. Then put the front sight on the target. Adjust the tape until you hit. You can also get used to how much barrel shows.


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## Newt2 (Sep 17, 2021)

James Miner said:


> Shooting long range with open sights is a challenge. The rear sight and front sight picture is different. When you elevate the barrel you will see the barrel through the rear sight. Put masking tape on the barrel and move it back until you get the edge of the tape at the sight. Then put the front sight on the target. Adjust the tape until you hit. You can also get used to how much barrel shows.


I don't fully understand that, but I have used iron sights out to 85 yards with great success.


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## James Miner (Sep 18, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> I don't fully understand that, but I have used iron sights out to 85 yards with great success.


I am talking about out to 400 to 500 yards. Bullet drop is amazing so the barrel is elevated to the point sights are useless. Your revolvers will shoot that far and even a nine can reach 1000 yards but you need to know how high to aim. If your barrel is long you can reference the rear sight at a spot on the barrel and use the front sight on the target, beyond that and a tall tree top beyond the target might be needed. 
I use an Ultra Dot on my revolvers for deer so there is not much adjustment. By aiming at a tree branch above the steel I shot 5 shots into 2-1/2" at 500 meters with my BFR in 45-70. I can only guess as to drop but in the neighborhood of 30 to 32 feet. My spotter walked me in.
The 45-70 revolver with a 10" barrel is ridiculous to make shoot and only one powder works, SR4759 so I bought a bunch when it was discontinued. I shoot my cast bullets. It is super, great fun to shoot far. I can't even touch that accuracy with my 45-70 rifle. If you have the space, do it for fun. My normal shooting distance is 100 yards.


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## Newt2 (Sep 18, 2021)

James Miner said:


> I am talking about out to 400 to 500 yards.


A handgun shot at that distance is ridiculous and creates wounded game that is not humane. Bullet performance even from a BFR is questionable at those ranges.

I am a practical person, but do know my and firearm limitations. You do provide good information, but I believe you stretch things a bit. You joined and jumped right into the .41 magnum talk thread. Maybe you should create a new thread "Personal Experiences with Handguns". 

Sorry, but being perfect in every way only raises questions in my mind.


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## James Miner (Sep 18, 2021)

You take me wrong, long range is just for fun targets. My revolver hunting is at bow ranges. Sorry if I offend you for trying to share what I have learned through years of work. This stuff did not come easy but maybe you know more so I guess I will quit passing on 68 years of knowledge, since I am near 84 and think a .41 can sit up and talk.
I will not post any more unless others ask. 
Seems every site has someone like you so maybe you have some words of wisdom to share. I bet 7 yards is far for you!


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## Newt2 (Sep 19, 2021)

Getting back to the 'let the 41 mag talk,' the first handgun I ever owned was a Ruger Blackhawk 6.5 inch .41 Magnum. My first shot popped a soup can at 40 yards. I bought it 3 weeks before hunting season so I jokingly said, "Well, I'm all set."

That's when I started reloading. I acquired  a press and dies, powder, primers and a variety of projectiles. I even got a chronograph and conducted expansion tests.

I took over 20 deer with that gun and yes, all were under 50 yards. That's when I found the art of still hunting and stalking. I really enjoyed moving stealthily through the woods, spotting a suitable buck and then stalking him until I had a good clear shot. The results of those were outstanding. One shot stops at ranges from 6 FEET to 25 yards.

Reloading I developed what I call my "woodchuck" load. It was a 170 gr Sierra JHC that went over 1700 fps out of that gun. The performance of that load was simply explosive.

Then the thoughts of bear hunting came in. More on that later.


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## James Miner (Sep 19, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> Getting back to the 'let the 41 mag talk,' the first handgun I ever owned was a Ruger Blackhawk 6.5 inch .41 Magnum. My first shot popped a soup can at 40 yards. I bought it 3 weeks before hunting season so I jokingly said, "Well, I'm all set."
> 
> That's when I started reloading. I acquired  a press and dies, powder, primers and a variety of projectiles. I even got a chronograph and conducted expansion tests.
> 
> ...


Yes, very good. There is hunting and there is shooting. I get upset with those that are shooting game at stupid ranges with the 6.5's, etc. I prefer 20 yards or even less. You are a good hunter in my book.
Yet as I said, nothing wrong with stretching the gun way out there on steel targets or rocks.
I hope some are interested in me posting more, I have a lot of stuff left.


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## Newt2 (Sep 20, 2021)

James Miner said:


> Yet as I said, nothing wrong with stretching the gun way out there on steel targets or rocks.


One thing I always wanted to do was silhouette shooting.


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## Seminole Wind (Sep 20, 2021)

I hope both of you keep posting. Lots of handgun experience speaking here. Thanks.


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## James Miner (Sep 20, 2021)

Newt2 said:


> One thing I always wanted to do was silhouette shooting.


I shot IHMSA for many, many years but today costs are bad with gas and how far I would have to drive. Components are scarce too. It was the greatest sport ever though.


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## James Miner (Sep 20, 2021)

Seminole Wind said:


> I hope both of you keep posting. Lots of handgun experience speaking here. Thanks.


OK, a little more for you. Gun grip and how. All handguns should be held firm, just short of shakes. Some do better held high, closer to bore line. Others like the SA hog leg should be held lower and never, ever let the gun "roll" or if the web of your hand meets the hammer you will feel it. Those I knew who did split their heads and blackened eyes. I tuck my little finger under the grip. Rubber grips like the Signature that fill behind the trigger guard are needed a lot. One guy would cut his trigger finger on the front of the guard and bash his knuckle on the rear. Big, strong guy too so I asked why not hold it tighter?
I hate the Bisley as my knuckle is large from heavy bows. a modified Bisley is better. Under recoil, just let the gun raise your arm, best buffer made.


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## Newt2 (Sep 20, 2021)

James Miner said:


> Those I knew who did split their heads and blackened eyes


I have to laugh. I had a friend that wanted to shoot my TC Contender in 444 Marlin. My only suggestion was to lock his elbow so the recoil pushed the gun over his head. It was alright until just before he pulled the trigger, I noticed his elbow go limp. 4 stitches later...


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## James Miner (Sep 21, 2021)

My friend shot my revolver and was the laughing stock at work for a long time. Said he likes to hold guns loose. Caliber doesn't matter either, I have shot those featherweight .357,s that are not pleasant. I like long barrels for hunting as there is more weight and the muzzle blast is farther away.


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## Nimrod71 (Oct 8, 2021)

Time to tune them 41's up time is getting close.


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## tcward (Oct 18, 2021)

Nimrod71 said:


> Time to tune them 41's up time is getting close.


This!^^


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## basshappy (Jan 16, 2022)

.41 magnum Ruger Redhawk provided me with my first deer ever.  I hunted once two years ago and came away without meat for the freezer, but this time on my second hunt I harvested this 8 point buck taking him from about 20 yards away.  I spent a Friday and Saturday scouting the land and positioned myself Sunday morning and waited.  This buck came along the game trail and my Redhawk did its job.  Meat in the freezer and a memory to last a lifetime (or until I lose my mind!).


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## Seminole Wind (Jan 16, 2022)

Way to get it done! First buck, a nice one, and with a handgun. Congratulations handgun hunter.


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## basshappy (Jan 17, 2022)

Seminole Wind said:


> Way to get it done! First buck, a nice one, and with a handgun. Congratulations handgun hunter.



Thank you.  It was important to me my first deer be a buck taken with my revolver with iron sights.  Up close and personal.  Patience is a virtue.


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