# Practicing Jews and the Torah



## NE GA Pappy (Sep 12, 2016)

I met a fellow while camping in North Carolina that was a practicing jew, and we got into some very interesting discussions about the Torah and traditions handed down by the sages. 

I am interested in discussing topics related to Jewish tradition and feasts.  There is so much we miss by not knowing the ceremony and culture of the people. I would like to learn more about it.

I expect this to remain a civil discussion and don't wish to hear any "well you are wrong and here is why" in your face type comments, please.  Lets all try and learn a bit more about something we may not understand, but is the foundation of our belief system also.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 12, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I met a fellow while camping in North Carolina that was a practicing jew, and we got into some very interesting discussions about the Torah and traditions handed down by the sages.
> 
> I am interested in discussing topics related to Jewish tradition and feasts.  There is so much we miss by not knowing the ceremony and culture of the people. I would like to learn more about it.
> 
> I expect this to remain a civil discussion and don't wish to hear any "well you are wrong and here is why" in your face type comments, please.  Lets all try and learn a bit more about something we may not understand, but is the foundation of our belief system also.




I love reading about Torah and old covenant traditions. I would say every bit of it, including the Sabbath's and feasts is a type of New Testament worship and life.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 12, 2016)

This is interesting on the feast Sabbath's.
http://biblelight.net/feasts.htm


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 12, 2016)

one thing I got from the gentleman in NC was that when you read about Abram having Sarah fix a meal for the visitors at his tent, the term used there was for her to fix unleaven bread.  We got into a brief discussion about why she would give unleaven bread, before the law of passover was given.  Interesting study, but I haven't found the bottom of it yet.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 12, 2016)

We also discussed briefly the order of the harvests listed in Deut 8:8 and why they are listed in that particular order


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## hobbs27 (Sep 12, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> one thing I got from the gentleman in NC was that when you read about Abram having Sarah fix a meal for the visitors at his tent, the term used there was for her to fix unleaven bread.  We got into a brief discussion about why she would give unleaven bread, before the law of passover was given.  Interesting study, but I haven't found the bottom of it yet.




Abraham wanted the finest cakes, but I think possibly Sara and her servants prepared it unleavened because they were not expecting such great and mighty guests...unleavened bread prepares faster...perhaps.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 12, 2016)

hobbs27 said:


> Abraham wanted the finest cakes, but I think possibly Sara and her servants prepared it unleavened because they were not expecting such great and mighty guests...unleavened bread prepares faster...perhaps.



she was making a bunch of it too.  According to Gen 18, she was to get 3 seah of fine flour... about 5 gallons of it, an make some bread.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 12, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> she was making a bunch of it too.  According to Gen 18, she was to get 3 seah of fine flour... about 5 gallons of it, an make some bread.



Yes, these guests were very highly regarded.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

What I have learned from the traditions of Jews of the past and the present through talking with practicing Jews has helped me understand the importance of what Jesus said, about justice and about why some Christians  continue in worship as they do.

A couple of things that I have lately been pondering with a eye on what some Christians continue to do and understand are:

 1. Jews not only offered sacrifice for sin and the sin was forgiven,  they had to also confess AUDIBLY ( with their mouth) to a priest and to identify or declare what the sin was.

2.  In practice the sacrificial foods ( meats--lamb, beef and goat,birds and grains and breads etc) did not only belong to the priests once they were offered as sacrifice, but they were also given out to the poor--that is the people who had difficulty providing for themselves or people who just could not make it to the feasts.

I have often thought of these things lately with regards to  when Jesus said, of the unleaven bread of pass over, "This is my body and this is my blood given for you" just before He would become the sacrificial lamb.

 Matt 26

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
27 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

I have to wonder if Jesus did  think of sinners as being spiritually poor and like the lamb of sacrifice which was parceled out to God and priest and the poor so would his body and therefore scripture would be accomplished when it is said, " I, myself, will put food in their mouths."

Maybe, perhaps...

 Ez 34:10 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.


Psalm 81:10

I am the LORD your God, who brought you up out of Egypt. Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.

 John 6:51

 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 13, 2016)

gordon 2 said:


> 1. Jews not only offered sacrifice for sin and the sin was forgiven,  they had to also confess AUDIBLY ( with their mouth) to a priest and to identify or declare what the sin was.



yep, it has become much to easy to "convert" and "be saved" in our society today.  Just come on down, shake the preachers hand and you are set to go.  For eternity say some.  I don't see a lot of repentance today. No sorrow for wrongs done and crimes committed.  It is like we are now the naughty boy caught with the candy jar, but we think we are so cute that no one will punish us for just taking 2 or 3 pieces of candy.

Lots to ponder here.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 13, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> yep, it has become much to easy to "convert" and "be saved" in our society today.  Just come on down, shake the preachers hand and you are set to go.  For eternity say some.  I don't see a lot of repentance today. No sorrow for wrongs done and crimes committed.  It is like we are now the naughty boy caught with the candy jar, but we think we are so cute that no one will punish us for just taking 2 or 3 pieces of candy.
> 
> Lots to ponder here.



I don't know if it's suppose to be difficult, but I worry more about the stresses put on little children to ( be saved).  All I know to do is pray they are not misled, as I'm afraid I may have been witness to, and party of in my younger days.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 13, 2016)

I don't think it's suppose to be a burden. Christ has removed our yoke of sin and replaced it with his yoke. His yoke is easy and his burden is light.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 13, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I met a fellow while camping in North Carolina that was a practicing jew, and we got into some very interesting discussions about the Torah and traditions handed down by the sages.
> 
> I am interested in discussing topics related to Jewish tradition and feasts.  There is so much we miss by not knowing the ceremony and culture of the people. I would like to learn more about it.
> 
> I expect this to remain a civil discussion and don't wish to hear any "well you are wrong and here is why" in your face type comments, please.  Lets all try and learn a bit more about something we may not understand, but is the foundation of our belief system also.



Was this man a  Jew or Messianic Jew?

I wonder what was the purpose of the Jewish dietary laws imposed on the Jews by God? Was it to set them aside or to mark them as being different?
Why food of all things? And then the laws related to clothing, such as wearing wool & linen together?


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 13, 2016)

What's really a mystery to me is as to why God chose the Jews/Israel? Especially if Israel was always the Church and God's chosen people were always the Elect/Church/true Sons of God.

I don't understand why he even needed to choose a nation. Knowing they would fail by our standards to bring salvation to the Gentile. I say, by our standards, because by God's standards Israel didn't fail. Well they did stumble but not so far that they won't recover.
I guess this might be one of those mysteries we'll never understand. 

I would think that if God went to the extremes that he did in choosing Israel, that there is more to it than Paul's mystery of the gospel being brought to the Gentile. I don't believe it will stop at that point. If that was the case, God wouldn't have chose Israel. Jesus could have been born a multi-passport kind of man.

Still I think we should study Judaism so that we can see the roots of Christianity. Not that Christianity came out of Judaism because the Word was always with God. It's not like Christianity is plan B after Judaism, plan A, failed.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 14, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> Was this man a  Jew or Messianic Jew?
> 
> I wonder what was the purpose of the Jewish dietary laws imposed on the Jews by God? Was it to set them aside or to mark them as being different?
> Why food of all things? And then the laws related to clothing, such as wearing wool & linen together?




he was a practicing jew.  We discussed some how jewish people feel insulted when we make assumptions about their beliefs.  He wouldn't even say Jesus, he said if was forbidden to him.  I really wish I had much more time to talk with him. Very interesting person.

I guess there is no practicing jewish people in this forum.  And here I was thinking all those jewish boys were fishermen.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 14, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> he was a practicing jew.  We discussed some how jewish people feel insulted when we make assumptions about their beliefs.  He wouldn't even say Jesus, he said if was forbidden to him.  I really wish I had much more time to talk with him. Very interesting person.
> 
> I guess there is no practicing jewish people in this forum.  And here I was thinking all those jewish boys were fishermen.



Making assumptions about other folks beliefs is a favorite sport of many Christians. When you can  get a few people  together making assumptions ( false ones) about each other's beliefs it can get  interesting. I'm not sure what the remedy for this is? Assumptions run deep and when you think they are purged they show up again. I'm thinking lately that making peace and accepting that there will always be false assumptions from all sides, might be the salve for the soars.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 14, 2016)

How many active sects are there now, and which was this practicing Jew?


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 15, 2016)

hobbs27 said:


> How many active sects are there now, and which was this practicing Jew?



didnt get that far with him.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 15, 2016)

OK. I think there's three main branches and several denominations or sects among them. None of them being equal to the Pharisee, Saducee, or Essene of Christ's earthly ministry.


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## Rich M (Sep 16, 2016)

Be careful.

I spent 8 years in a Messianic congregation where people would get in a tizzy over people eating non-kosher marshmallows.  Legalism at its finest.

Following the feasts is supposed to be a perpetual statute - starts with Sabbath and goes from there.  Levitcus 23 has 'em all in one spot.  

My wife and I learned a lot about Torah, the feasts, and how the OT relates to Messiah.  I found the Messianic way to have a heavy religious spirit - just like most of the Christian churches.  Be careful of it.

Sorry I'm rambling.  Measure everything against what Christ did and said. 

BTW - Oct 3 is Yom Teruah (trumpets), Oct 12 is Yom Kippur (fast day), Oct 17 is the first day of Sukkot (tabernacles), Oct 24 is the 8th day - last day of Sukkot.  All are supposed to be sabbaths, Yom Kippur is a fast.

God seems to work through his feasts - Messiah was born during Sukkot (Christmas is not his actual birthday), sacrificed at Passover (inlcudes enleavened bread), rose as the First Fruit (there is a feast called First Fruit), and rose at Pentacost (Shavuot).  He is supposed to come with a mighty trumpet blast (Yom Turuah), judge the earth (Yom Kippur), and have a millennial reign (Sukkot/Tabernacle).  Or so they say.

Remember what's gonna get you home - your faith in Messiah and living out your faith.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 16, 2016)

Rich M said:


> God seems to work through his feasts - Messiah was born during Sukkot (Christmas is not his actual birthday), sacrificed at Passover (inlcudes enleavened bread), rose as the First Fruit (there is a feast called First Fruit), and rose at Pentacost (Shavuot).  He is supposed to come with a mighty trumpet blast (Yom Turuah), judge the earth (Yom Kippur), and have a millennial reign (Sukkot/Tabernacle).  Or so they say.
> 
> Remember what's gonna get you home - your faith in Messiah and living out your faith.



Just a quick comment for some to think about.No need for conversation on this.

Matt. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The law is Torah...Sabbaths are Torah. If not all of Torah is fulfilled then none is, but if all of Torah is fulfilled so are all the feasts. Amen


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 21, 2016)

hobbs27 said:


> I don't know if it's suppose to be difficult, but I worry more about the stresses put on little children to ( be saved).



I suppose I don't mean it should be difficult, but there has to be a turning point.  A place that you can put a marker and say here is where I made a life changing decision, to follow God, and never turn back. It can't be a "well, I shook the preachers hand" while you are shacked up with your girlfriend, still married to your 2nd old lady, beating your kids, and getting drunk every weekend religion.

Some folks believe that just because they went down once, they are set.  They believe they can live anyway they want, and it will all be overlooked.   From my reading, it doesn't work that way.


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## hobbs27 (Sep 21, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I suppose I don't mean it should be difficult, but there has to be a turning point.  A place that you can put a marker and say here is where I made a life changing decision, to follow God, and never turn back. It can't be a "well, I shook the preachers hand" while you are shacked up with your girlfriend, still married to your 2nd old lady, beating your kids, and getting drunk every weekend religion.
> 
> Some folks believe that just because they went down once, they are set.  They believe they can live anyway they want, and it will all be overlooked.   From my reading, it doesn't work that way.



I understand. He is the great physician and has a way with curing heart conditions.

 I have done important things on my own, and I've done important things with my Lord. 

Never has anything I've done alone benefitted me in the least.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 21, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I suppose I don't mean it should be difficult, but there has to be a turning point.  A place that you can put a marker and say here is where I made a life changing decision, to follow God, and never turn back. It can't be a "well, I shook the preachers hand" while you are shacked up with your girlfriend, still married to your 2nd old lady, beating your kids, and getting drunk every weekend religion.
> 
> Some folks believe that just because they went down once, they are set.  They believe they can live anyway they want, and it will all be overlooked.   From my reading, it doesn't work that way.



I've got most of those sins in the bag. For me my struggles are with forgiving others, cheating, lust, pride, anger, coveting, hate, overeating and other sins against my body. Things that would keep a lost person out of the Kingdom.  

I don't have any trouble with murder, homosexuality, drug abuse, gambling,  unmarried sex, adultery, hitting people, over drinking,  or swindling people. 
Yet my turning point is still turning.

I did play the Lottery a little when it first came out but I'm over that one already. 

I can't say that I haven't made improvements in my sanctification. I think it gets easier as one gets older. Mainly because an older person has sown his wild oats and is more willing to settle down anyway. I think we all reach that point at different times within our lifetimes. We are all prisoners to the flesh even with the Holy Spirit. I kinda think we will be until we shed our flesh and become 100% spirit. When we finally see Jesus as he is and become like him.

So if works count, then a young person who has settled down, has my vote as the better Christian. The young person who has lust, anger, and pride under control.

In hindsight I wish that I had been a better Christian when I was younger. Especially with forgiving others. That and not poisoning my body/temple with unhealthy foods and other substances.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 21, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've got most of those sins in the bag. For me my struggles are with forgiving others, cheating, lust, pride, anger, coveting, hate, overeating and other sins against my body. Things that would keep a lost person out of the Kingdom.
> 
> I don't have any trouble with murder, homosexuality, drug abuse, gambling,  unmarried sex, adultery, hitting people, over drinking,  or swindling people.
> Yet my turning point is still turning.
> ...




yes, to be a Christian, you should be trying to shed these things, but just like everyone else, they are not perfect.  What I am trying to convey is that this walk is on going, and as one looks back on his life, there should be a definable moment where they can point and say here is where I made a decision to be a follower.  

Anything less is what my grandmother use to call "fire insurance"


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## gordon 2 (Sep 30, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> yes, to be a Christian, you should be trying to shed these things, but just like everyone else, they are not perfect.  What I am trying to convey is that this walk is on going, and as one looks back on his life, there should be a definable moment where they can point and say here is where I made a decision to be a follower.
> 
> Anything less is what my grandmother use to call "fire insurance"



 I like this. I like it alot. Your grandmother was a wise lady.


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