# What is evil,to an unbeliever?



## christianhunter (Sep 9, 2010)

Lets go ahead and do away with the obvious.Murder,Rape,Child abuse,Incest,hate,and all of the child pornography.

On an everyday basis,what is evil?


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## Ronnie T (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm not sure we believers really understand evil.
A few weeks ago, in a Bible class, I was talking about the occasional sin that continues to plague all believers, all our lives to some extent.
An older lady in the class stated that she wouldn't really call the sin in her life "evil".  "It's just little weaknesses from time to time."
It's "accidents", not evil.  According to her.

If it isn't Godly, it's evil.  No fence in the middle.

Sorry Michael, I think I just spoke out of turn.


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## SarahFair (Sep 9, 2010)

Hm I am a nonbeliever in the devil. 
Evil... Evil...
Evil is the opposite of good. It is a necessary for balance. 
But this balance I wouldnt call it evil.. 

It is a necessary






Im sorry it is hard for me to believe in true evil


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## gordon 2 (Sep 9, 2010)

Injustice.


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## WTM45 (Sep 9, 2010)

There are understood "rights" and "wrongs" which are ever changing and adapting based on humanity and acceptance/rejection.
Thank goodness the civilized worlds continue to improve in their standards of determination.

I do not think religions have affected those "rights" and "wrongs" as much as humanity has affected religions.


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## Jim Thompson (Sep 9, 2010)

evil in my book is anything that takes away from the basic rights of another living human


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## Crubear (Sep 9, 2010)

Jim X 2

There is a difference between "Wrong" and "Evil", it's wrong to cheat it's evil to kill. 

Then again, it's semantics in the English language and it's a bit imprecise. In what other language does Fat/No/Slim mean the same thing? (when used with chance


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## christianhunter (Sep 9, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Hm I am a nonbeliever in the devil.
> Evil... Evil...
> Evil is the opposite of good. It is a necessary for balance.
> But this balance I wouldnt call it evil..
> ...



To rape,kill,dismember the victim,and canabalize the flesh.This is not pure(true) evil?


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## christianhunter (Sep 9, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm not sure we believers really understand evil.
> A few weeks ago, in a Bible class, I was talking about the occasional sin that continues to plague all believers, all our lives to some extent.
> An older lady in the class stated that she wouldn't really call the sin in her life "evil".  "It's just little weaknesses from time to time."
> It's "accidents", not evil.  According to her.
> ...



No, you didn't Brother,not at all,Thanks for that imput.


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## SarahFair (Sep 9, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> To rape,kill,dismember the victim,and canabalize the flesh.This is not pure(true) evil?



See the way I view it will never make sense to you. Yes, those things are wrong...
But if what Im thinking your level of evil is, no.


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## Jim Thompson (Sep 9, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Yes, those things are wrong...



and lots of things are wrong...some just more wrong than others.

not sure anything is truly evil because I cant say it actually exists


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## pnome (Sep 9, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Lets go ahead and do away with the obvious.Murder,Rape,Child abuse,Incest,hate,and all of the child pornography.
> 
> On an everyday basis,what is evil?



Good question.  As is it's reverse, "What is "good"?

It is a question that I think was best approached by Socrates.  In Plato's "Euthyphro"

Though that dialog does not provide any answers.  It just makes one realize how difficult the question really is.   I recommend that anyone seeking an answer to that question read it: http://books.google.com/books?id=OQ...&resnum=4&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

But I have developed my own theory.  I've posted this before a number of times, but here it is in it's simplest form:

Good = anything that we deem, given the information we have and trust at the time, to be beneficial to our survival, or the survival of those with whom we empathize.

Evil = anything we deem detrimental to our survival or the survival of those with whom we empathize.

I've thought about this quite a bit, and I think those statements cover it.  But I'm always looking for criticism.


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## earl (Sep 9, 2010)

Evil is spewing hatred for someone you do not know .


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## formula1 (Sep 9, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm not sure we believers really understand evil.
> A few weeks ago, in a Bible class, I was talking about the occasional sin that continues to plague all believers, all our lives to some extent.
> An older lady in the class stated that she wouldn't really call the sin in her life "evil".  "It's just little weaknesses from time to time."
> It's "accidents", not evil.  According to her.
> ...



I like that RonnieT.

1) Evil=Sin=Anything against God  (See scriptures many details)
2) Payment for Sin=Death
3) But Repentance=Life through the payment for sin (death) of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I like God's way.  

Man's way is without everlasting hope, but I suppose if you don't believe you are an eternal being, then why would you care!


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## Inatree (Sep 9, 2010)

Even when I was an atheist the only way I could define the word "evil" was anything outside of the will of God.
Therefore evil did not exist to me.
However "Bad" did exist to me, and I eventually had to accept that "bad" is completely relative.


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## ronpasley (Sep 9, 2010)

evil it what is wrong and know is consider right

In the last day's right will be wrong and wrong will be right.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 9, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Lets go ahead and do away with the obvious.Murder,Rape,Child abuse,Incest,hate,and all of the child pornography.
> 
> On an everyday basis,what is evil?



Malicious acts, including injustice, deliberate neglect, and cruelty.  That's about all I have.

It's worth mentioning, I don't necessarily agree with your list of "the obvious" when one considers the modern contexts: 

Child abuse/porn, definitely.  
Hatred?  I don't consider that evil.  
Incest?  Between consenting adults...none of my business.
Rape?  The traditional meaning of rape, of course.  Legally though, people like Genarlow Wilson I don't consider evil. 
Etc, etc.


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## Israel (Sep 9, 2010)

I can no longer answer as an unbeliever, but I can answer for one.
He who is a liar from the beginning, who has no light, dwells in darkness and is everything God is not. He works through man to try to completely destroy the image and likeness of the Creator, who is blessed forever. 
Because he works furiously to hide the truth, who is both the Light and_ the _Life, and who alone is good, he is evil. The unbeliever believes this liar to be both good, and God. He sits in the temple and declares himself God. All the while hiding in plain sight.
Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was,_ and is not;_ and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was,_ and is not_, and yet is. 

Unbelievers will be surprised to discover who has been holding the inner dialogues of their heart with God...and against God...the one they have allowed to sit on their throne.

The one who restored the image and likeness of God to man sits on the throne in the temple of every believer.
The evil one is the One who denies Jesus Christ come in the flesh.
Every evil act comes from this one evil, the denial of Christ in the flesh.


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## apoint (Sep 9, 2010)

Too many ways to describe evil, opposite of good.
 If evil spelled backwards is live and life is God then evil would be satan, death.

Jesus said there is non good but GOD....


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## sea trout (Sep 9, 2010)

lots of interesting comments.
i'm not positive what evil is.
i feel as if evil is a force. maybe a mental force in a man or beast. evil wants to destroy all things good, it is the only job of evil.
what is good then we ask?
because as most of us have witnessed , so far, the actions of a being we call evil are actions of good in the doers mind! 
i do beleive there is evil out there that knows its evil and wants to be evil and yearns to destroy! maybe one day in our lifetime we will face this evil.
good question and everyones opinions are very good to read!


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## Diogenes (Sep 9, 2010)

Evil?   Tough one to define, much as ‘Good’ is a rough one to pin down.

Synonyms abound for the word ‘evil’ – calamitous, catastrophic, cruel, deadly, deleterious, destructive, dire, disastrous, ghastly, grim, harmful, hurtful, injurious, painful, poisonous, ruinous, unspeakable, woeful . . . and those words only apply to the so-called ‘Acts of God’ that we see around us every day . . . 

So I guess I’d have to say that ‘evil’ is when your insurance company denies your claim when you suffer any of the above consequences as a result of the benevolence of God’s work here on Earth . . .


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## christianhunter (Sep 9, 2010)

There are no wrong answers from an unbelievers standpoint.That is why I poised the question,the way I did.Even though,some Believers may answer differently,from the way I feel,their answers are theirs to share.I find it interesting reading so far.I'm really interested in the atheists viewpoint of evil(or wrong),as they see it.As I grow,or stand in my walk with THE LORD,my view of evil,has changed dramatically.As with the unbelievers,there are professing Believers,who do not believe in Satan.With the horrors displayed in the media,daily I find it astonishing,that it is being down played as just wrong,instead of evil.


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## farmasis (Sep 9, 2010)

I would also like to take a stab at it...even as a believer.

To me evil is an atitude, not necessarily an action.

To me, it is a feeling of joy when witnessing or causing great calamity to another living creature. 

It is subjective..of course. I am sure deer will think I am evil this season....hopefully a nice big buck will really think that of me.


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## christianhunter (Sep 9, 2010)

farmasis said:


> I would also like to take a stab at it...even as a believer.
> 
> To me evil is an atitude, not necessarily an action.
> 
> To me, it is a feeling of joy when witnessing or causing great calamity to another living creature.



Now we are getting somewhere, Brother.A lot of us,or most, on this site,are hunters and fisherman.Yet to take pleasure in a cruel torture of a living creature,for the sake of satisfaction,if you will.Example-pouring gasoline on a dog,and watching it burn alive.Thoughts are most certainly evil too,it doesn't take the acting out part,to make it any less evil.


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## Gentleman4561 (Sep 10, 2010)

Im going to have to agree with farmasis, that evil is a attitude or thought. I feel like the only way you can truly be labeled as evil is if you enjoy doing harm to other.  Im not talking about stealing something because your poor.  Evil is on the level of people like Jack the Ripper.  To be evil you must be on a different level that everyone else.  At the point where you enjoy causing pain or destruction.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 10, 2010)

Once, Peter told Jesus that there was no way he would allow Jesus to die....
Jesus responded, "Get thee behind Me Satan".


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## pnome (Sep 10, 2010)

Gentleman4561 said:


> Im going to have to agree with farmasis, that evil is a attitude or thought. I feel like the only way you can truly be labeled as evil is if you enjoy doing harm to other.  Im not talking about stealing something because your poor.  Evil is on the level of people like Jack the Ripper.  To be evil you must be on a different level that everyone else.  At the point where you enjoy causing pain or destruction.



I disagree.

Evil is in the eye of the beholder.  A fanatical Islamic terrorist does not think he is doing evil.  He is under the impression that what he is doing is the ultimate good that he can do.  He has no "evil attitude"  

He's wrong.  Objectively wrong.  And it is his wrongness that is evil.  The information he has to base his decisions on is incorrect and has led him astray.

How does one avoid being "led astray"?  How do we avoid doing evil when we think we're doing good?  By having access to reliable information.  And how do we obtain reliable information?  

I'll give you a hint: It's not by reading ancient "holy books".


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## SarahFair (Sep 10, 2010)

This is another example:
What about the girl throwing puppies in the river...

Evil to the ones sitting watching from the computer but to her she might have thought she was doing an act of mercy. Those puppies might have been blind, sick, snake bit, deformed... etc
but to some that is pure evil.

Different standards of living may be evil to some but normal to others. Who are we to judge and decide?


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## dawg2 (Sep 10, 2010)

Jim Thompson said:


> evil in my book is anything that takes away from the basic rights of another living human


To add:  Either directly or indirectly.


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## dawg2 (Sep 10, 2010)

pnome said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Evil is in the eye of the beholder.  A fanatical Islamic terrorist does not think he is doing evil.  He is under the impression that what he is doing is the ultimate good that he can do.  He has no "evil attitude"
> 
> ...


Those not familiar with history, are doomed to repeat it...


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## pnome (Sep 10, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Those not familiar with history, are doomed to repeat it...



Allow me to rephrase:

Not by _following_ ancient "holy books"


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## Madman (Sep 10, 2010)

For believers good and evil are objective. 

_And the LORD asked me, "What do you see, Amos?" 
"A plumb line," I replied. 
Then the Lord said, "Look, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no   longer.          Amos 7:8   _

I can tell by the answers given by the nonbelievers they believe good and evil are subjective, at least until they are confronted by it.  Jean-Paul Sartre is a perfect example.

As a side note;  
Dear SaraFair, 
Blindness, deafness, and other “deformities” are no reason to destroy life.  We are all “deformed” to one extent or another.


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## SarahFair (Sep 10, 2010)

Madman said:


> As a side note;
> Dear SaraFair,
> Blindness, deafness, and other “deformities” are no reason to destroy life.  We are all “deformed” to one extent or another.


While I see what you are saying Im not the one to give this lesson to 
Im just stating what could possibly be going through her mind. 
Anothers wrong may be anothers right


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## gtparts (Sep 10, 2010)

Madman said:


> For believers good and evil are objective.
> 
> _And the LORD asked me, "What do you see, Amos?"
> "A plumb line," I replied.
> ...



It is a fact of life that those who reject God, whose very character alone gives definition to the word _good,_ are quite content with a movable plumb line of their own placement. Rationalization of ones own desires is an art form of the spiritually dead.  

If good and evil were truly subjective, it would be (and is) a complete waste of our time to attempt giving consistent meaning to the terms..... like nailing Jello to a tree. Praise God, He does not give us that task, for in Him alone do we, who love Him, know what is good and, therefore, what is evil. And this we do , not because it is innate to our being, but because He first loved us and gifted us with the grace to receive and give love.


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## Thor827 (Sep 10, 2010)

If you're looking for an athiest's point of view, I can't help you.

If you would like to know a nonchristian's thoughts, mine are easy to understand.
Evil is simply the act or will to knowingly do harm to others without provocation. It can be physical, mental or spiritual. 

I think we are all born bad. We are selfish, spiteful, mean animals at our core. As children we are taught that this is wrong. We spend our whole lives working towards being good to one another. People that are too lazy to put in the effort are what I consider evil.


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## Gentleman4561 (Sep 10, 2010)

pnome said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Evil is in the eye of the beholder.  A fanatical Islamic terrorist does not think he is doing evil.  He is under the impression that what he is doing is the ultimate good that he can do.  He has no "evil attitude"
> 
> ...



I was not necessarily talking about a Islamic terrorist or a Nazi concentration camp worker.  These men believed what they were doing was right.  One a whole new level are those who know they are evil and embrace it.


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## crackerdave (Sep 10, 2010)

pnome said:


> Good question.  As is it's reverse, "What is "good"?
> 
> It is a question that I think was best approached by Socrates.  In Plato's "Euthyphro"
> 
> ...





Israel said:


> I can no longer answer as an unbeliever, but I can answer for one.
> He who is a liar from the beginning, who has no light, dwells in darkness and is everything God is not. He works through man to try to completely destroy the image and likeness of the Creator, who is blessed forever.
> Because he works furiously to hide the truth, who is both the Light and_ the _Life, and who alone is good, he is evil. The unbeliever believes this liar to be both good, and God. He sits in the temple and declares himself God. All the while hiding in plain sight.
> Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was,_ and is not;_ and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was,_ and is not_, and yet is.
> ...


Dead on th' money!


Gentleman4561 said:


> Im going to have to agree with farmasis, that evil is a attitude or thought. I feel like the only way you can truly be labeled as evil is if you enjoy doing harm to other.  Im not talking about stealing something because your poor.  Evil is on the level of people like Jack the Ripper.  To be evil you must be on a different level that everyone else.  At the point where you enjoy causing pain or destruction.


Most certainly evil.


SarahFair said:


> This is another example:
> What about the girl throwing puppies in the river...
> 
> Evil to the ones sitting watching from the computer but to her she might have thought she was doing an act of mercy. Those puppies might have been blind, sick, snake bit, deformed... etc
> ...


Excellent point!


gtparts said:


> It is a fact of life that those who reject God, whose very character alone gives definition to the word _good,_ are quite content with a movable plumb line of their own placement. Rationalization of ones own desires is an art form of the spiritually dead.
> 
> If good and evil were truly subjective, it would be (and is) a complete waste of our time to attempt giving consistent meaning to the terms..... like nailing Jello to a tree. Praise God, He does not give us that task, for in Him alone do we, who love Him, know what is good and, therefore, what is evil. And this we do , not because it is innate to our being, but because He first loved us and gifted us with the grace to receive and give love.


Amen,gt.


Thor827 said:


> If you're looking for an athiest's point of view, I can't help you.
> 
> If you would like to know a nonchristian's thoughts, mine are easy to understand.
> Evil is simply the act or will to knowingly do harm to others without provocation. It can be physical, mental or spiritual.
> ...



More good points.

Great thread,Michael!


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 10, 2010)

gtparts said:


> It is a fact of life that those who reject God, whose very character alone gives definition to the word _good,_ are quite content with a movable plumb line of their own placement. Rationalization of ones own desires is an art form of the spiritually dead.



At least the "spiritually dead" feel some sense of obligation to rationalize, if what you say is true.

Is that better or worse than not recognizing the need to rationalize at all?



gtparts said:


> As long as it is God's will, one need not rationalize at all.


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## SneekEE (Sep 10, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Lets go ahead and do away with the obvious.Murder,Rape,Child abuse,Incest,hate,and all of the child pornography.
> 
> On an everyday basis,what is evil?



Evil is anything contray or against "God"

To know what evil is, you would have to know who God is.

If you are an unbeliever, you dont know God. So it would be useless to ask an unbeliever to define something that cant know.At best an unbeliever will only say somthing is "wrong" unless it happens to them personaly, then they may see it as evil.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 10, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> Evil is anything contray or against "God"
> 
> To know what evil is, you would have to know who God is.
> 
> If you are an unbeliever, you dont know God. So it would be useless to ask an unbeliever to define something that cant know.At best an unbeliever will only say somthing is "wrong" unless it happens to them personaly, then they may see it as evil.



I disagree with every word of your post.


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## gtparts (Sep 10, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I disagree with every word of your post.



No surprises there, Six. Goes without saying.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 10, 2010)

gtparts said:


> No surprises there, Six. Goes without saying.



Of course.  Did you read my contribution to the OP?


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## gtparts (Sep 10, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Of course.  Did you read my contribution to the OP?



Yep, and just went back and read it again.


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## SneekEE (Sep 10, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I disagree with every word of your post.



The beginning of thought is in disagreement , not only with others but also with ourselves...Eric Hoffer


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 10, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> The beginning of thought is in disagreement , not only with others but also with ourselves...Eric Hoffer



Yeah, great.  No problem there.  Let's just say that one day you come to the conclusion that Jesus, God, the immaculate conception, etc are all inventions in a great literary work.  Not to say you're a solid atheist, but maybe as an agnostic or deist you could still hold the belief in a higher, albeit unknown, power.  In such a situation the bible no longer serves as your guide.  

Do you suddenly start assaulting elderly women to steal their money, torturing animals to see what sounds it makes, and conning people out of their life savings - generally leading what is clearly an immoral life?  If not, why not?  What's stopping you?


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## christianhunter (Sep 10, 2010)

Obviously,I was wrong about the basics.Child molestatation,killing an infant,by every means.Surely anyone can deem these as more than just wrong doing!


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 10, 2010)

gtparts said:


> Yep, and just went back and read it again.



So then you disagree with my attempt to define evil?


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## gtparts (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So then you disagree with my attempt to define evil?



It's fairly accurate, imho, particularly the exceptions noted. 
However, I'm not sure it goes to the heart of the matter (pun intended). Evil is conceived in the hearts and minds of people, regardless of whether it is manifested outwardly. A woman who contemplates an affair with her next door neighbor's good-looking, athletic, and sophisticated husband is thinking about betraying her husband and potentially destroying the neighbor's marriage. Such attention to doing something that is evil, reveals a wicked, sinful nature. If she dwells on it long enough, she may do little things to test the possibility of making it a reality. Flirting and getting a response can feed the desire. Even if she never follows through with her fantasy, it shows a desire to do something that will or could hurt others. Giving license to a selfish act can lead to evil thought and behavior.

And it all started with a wayward thought to please oneself. Evil always has its origin in people wanting to do things or have things that are contrary to God's purpose.


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## SneekEE (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Yeah, great.  No problem there.  Let's just say that one day you come to the conclusion that Jesus, God, the immaculate conception, etc are all inventions in a great literary work.  Not to say you're a solid atheist, but maybe as an agnostic or deist you could still hold the belief in a higher, albeit unknown, power.  In such a situation the bible no longer serves as your guide.
> 
> Do you suddenly start assaulting elderly women to steal their money, torturing animals to see what sounds it makes, and conning people out of their life savings - generally leading what is clearly an immoral life?  If not, why not?  What's stopping you?



Ok, say i do come to that conclusion, say I decide there is no God or Jesus, say not only I, but the entire world comes to that conclusion. And i think you are asking what then is it that determines for me anyway, what is and is not evil?

Simple, anything contrary to God, His word, or who He is.

Just because I dont believe in God, that  does not mean He does not exsist. Just because the world does not believe in God does not mean He does not exsist.Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted; Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone!

God has written His laws on the hearts of all people, thou shall not steal.God has given all men a conscience, to know right from wrong.God uses this conscience to speak to us.The man who belongs too and believes in God will listen to Him, where as the man who does not, will usualy listen so long as it benifits him to do so.So you have 2 men tempted to steal somthing in a time of need. Both men know it is wrong, ther heart tells them it is wrong.The man who is following God will listen to his conscience, the man who is not will in most cases go ahead and steal, lets say money, if he thinks it will benifit him.Now you add in the possibility that stealing this money could get him killed then he may decide against it.

The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 

 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.


I know that there is some sort of a conscience in most men; I am afraid it is a very small rushlight in some, and that it is almost blown out by their evil habits. They can even make themselves think that they are doing right, when they are as wrong as wrong can be; but in a child of God there is a burning and a shining light which reveals the truth concerning sin and evil.


The Lord said, "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts." The law is there to censure or to cheer; it is there to let us hear its voice say, "This is the way, walk ye in it;" or it is there to say, "Stay where you are, go no farther;" or, "Return, thou backsliding son, and seek mercy of the Lord."

God does more than that for his people.It is not only a voice that commands or approves, When he writes his law in our heart, he makes us to approve it. An ungodly man wishes to alter God's law. "There," says he, "I do not like that command, 'Thou shalt not steal,' I should like to be a little bit of a trickster." Another says, "I do not like that purity of which the minister spoke just now, I should like to indulge myself a little. Am I to have no pleasure?" 

But when the law of the Lord is written in his heart of His own child, the man says, "The law is right." He would not alter it if he could; there is nothing that he hates more than the lowering of the tone of the law, for he does not want a lax morality. "Oh, no!" says he, "let us have the highest form of righteousness that can be, and may God help me to live up to it!" 

Once a man has been born of God, he no longer sees the mote in his neighbors eye, but becomes more concerned about the stick in his own eye. The law is quick to point out his own sinfullness.And he then begins to live a life according to Gods moral laws. Wheras the unbeliever who knows to do good, and knows what is good and evil, may continue to do that which only serves himself, regardless if it be good or evil.

The law is not fully written on the evil man heart untill he approves the law, and appoints it to himself, and delights in obeying it. Gods man while tempted to steal, finds great joy in withstanding the temptation. While the lost man, should he decide not to steal due to beeing caught, or getting shot, feels he has failed or been cheated in his heart by not beeing able to carry out the evil he so desired to do. His actions or plans to do evil in order to benifit himself has some how been thwarted, but next time he will succeed, he will be smarter, faster, and better at his evil, it is in this mindset to do evil again and succeed, that he finds comfort.

So, if i and all men decide there is no God, we will still have to deal with the conscience he has given us, that voice that says it is wrong to kill, to steal ect ect, until we hide that voice so deep with in us, that it becomes scilent, only to be awakened again on judgment day, in that day it will be the same voice that like thunder will condemns us, and what ever our belief may have been about God beeing a lie, will not help us one bit. For our conscience will bear witness against us that what we knew to do, we chose not to do.

It is a day in court that the one who will be a witness against us will be our own selves.And no man will have an excuse.God will judge the quick and the dead. The wages of sin is death. He is a good judge, a rightous judge,  and has declared  all have sinned,and not one will be found innocent,  save those whom the blood of Jesus Christ has been accredit to there account. The punishment for there crimes have been paid in full, and the law has no power over them, the judge has already declared there rightousness.

Romans 3:24-26
 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 

 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 

 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Now, God has commanded all men to repent and recieve His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, born of a virgen, died on the cross for your sins, and rose again 3 days later. 

His commandment is for YOU to repent and believe. Even now you have the choice to do evil or good.Your conscience shall bear witness that what I say is true should you only listen in prayer to God and ask Him. So what will you choose to do, obey Gods command to repent, or dissobey and commit evil?

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 11, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> So, if i and all men decide there is no God, we will still have to deal with the conscience he has given us, that voice that says it is wrong to kill, to steal ect ect, until we hide that voice so deep with in us, that it becomes scilent, only to be awakened again on judgment day, in that day it will be the same voice that like thunder will condemns us, and what ever our belief may have been about God beeing a lie, will not help us one bit. For our conscience will bear witness against us that what we knew to do, we chose not to do.



So then you don't need the bible to know that it's wrong to rape, murder, and steal.  I don't either.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So then you don't need the bible to know that it's wrong to rape, murder, and steal.  I don't either.




Good point.

Man is a social creature. From a social perspective it is possible to call rape, murder and stealing other things and not think them wrong. I always remember Geronimo when he explained what his society was like before christianity where a routine raid to kill and steal was just. Revenge was just. Big revenge was even more just.

Societies and prison guards can dehumanize the enemy and prisonners in a blink of an eye--in good conscience. In the bible it explains that the enemy is to be loved and we are to be slow to anger...however.


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## SneekEE (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So then you don't need the bible to know that it's wrong to rape, murder, and steal.  I don't either.



I dont think so, and i didnt read all of the posts, dont know who said we needed the bible to know what evil is. We need the bible to know the remidy for evil. So you do agree there is evil in the world? And did you choose evil?


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## Ronnie T (Sep 11, 2010)

Paul the apostle said "without the Law I wouldn't know what sin was."
Wouldn't know that it was a sin to kill someone.  A sin to take what you had the power to take.


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## SneekEE (Sep 11, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Paul the apostle said "without the Law I wouldn't know what sin was."
> Wouldn't know that it was a sin to kill someone.  A sin to take what you had the power to take.



Does that mean without the bible we wouldnt know? I dont think so. God makes his law known to us through the conscience. All men avery where know it is wrong to kill. Ask any sane man if the correct thing to do is kill himself and children and he should say it is wrong. There is somthing with in that tells him this. It is Gods law.If not for God saying it was wrong, and convicting us of it, we then would not know it is wrong. The bible is only one way in which Gods law convicts of sin. Long b4 the bible was written God used His prophets since the earth began Acts 3:20-21 .

If without the bible man had no morals of right and wrong, then what did they have b4 the bible was written to guide them?For more than two thousand five hundred years the world was without a written revelation from God. The question is, Did God leave Himself without a witness? The question is answered very positively by the written Word that He did not. In Romans 1:19 it is declared that, "that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 11, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> I dont think so, and i didnt read all of the posts, dont know who said we needed the bible to know what evil is. We need the bible to know the remidy for evil. So you do agree there is evil in the world? And did you choose evil?





> To know what evil is, you would have to know who God is.



Well not in so many words, but you said it.  Unless you are somehow able to know about Jesus and God without the bible.  

As for evil, I don't necessarily believe _evil _ proper exists.  I think acts can be evil and people who choose to execute evil acts can be deemed evil.   So I don't think I've chosen evil, to answer your question as asked.  That is to say I do my best to refrain from evil acts.  

I take it that you do believe in evil.  What is it in your opinion, a force, a quality or trait, etc?  What is the remedy to evil and where in the bible is it found?


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## SneekEE (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well not in so many words, but you said it.  Unless you are somehow able to know about Jesus and God without the bible.
> 
> As for evil, I don't necessarily believe _evil _ proper exists.  I think acts can be evil and people who choose to execute evil acts can be deemed evil.   So I don't think I've chosen evil, to answer your question as asked.  That is to say I do my best to refrain from evil acts.
> 
> I take it that you do believe in evil.  What is it in your opinion, a force, a quality or trait, etc?  What is the remedy to evil and where in the bible is it found?



If I did not say somthing in so many words then please dont add any to mine. I think is your assumption that man can not know God unless He has the written word of God. I did not say that.God is almighty and indeed has chosen to use the written word, but it is not His only method of revealing His will. Sorry I didnt read anything you said past the point where you put words in my mouth that i didnt say, so I cant respond to all of your comment.If you would like to discuss my views on anything that is fine, but I dont want to speak to anyone who is going to take my words out of context and twist them to win a debate, if this is a debate. I dont care to debate, If you are curious about my beliefs and want too understand why i believe what i believe I will share, if you want to agrue with me about my beliefs then go play with someone who wants too argue with you. 

Mans knowledge of good and evil comes from God. If tommorrow you decide that the color yellow is evil, you may can convince some of that, but not many. How ever should God declare that yellow is evil, then all men evrywhere may not admitt it is evil, but when they saw it they would know it too be evil.They would know because there conscience would convict from within, it is the silent voice in the courtroom that you can not argue against.But when it speaks it screams wrong, unjust, evil you are.Either you will eventualy delight in agreeing with you conscience and repent of your sins, or you will supress it to the point you no longer hear it, until the day God decides once more to awaken it with in a man.Never the less, on judgment day there will be none with the excuse of I didnt know. There conscience will bear witness against them.And God will be just in that He gave all men a chance to repent and know the truth, to know Him. Whether it was though His Spirit,  His Word, personal revelation, or declared in the heavens, all men know what is evil and good in the sight of the Lord, becaus eHe has declared it so.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 11, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> If I did not say somthing in so many words then please dont add any to mine. I think is your assumption that man can not know God unless He has the written word of God. I did not say that.God is almighty and indeed has chosen to use the written word, but it is not His only method of revealing His will. Sorry I didnt read anything you said past the point where you put words in my mouth that i didnt say, so I cant respond to all of your comment.If you would like to discuss my views on anything that is fine, but I dont want to speak to anyone who is going to take my words out of context and twist them to win a debate, if this is a debate. I dont care to debate, If you are curious about my beliefs and want too understand why i believe what i believe I will share, if you want to agrue with me about my beliefs then go play with someone who wants too argue with you.
> 
> Mans knowledge of good and evil comes from God. If tommorrow you decide that the color yellow is evil, you may can convince some of that, but not many. How ever should God declare that yellow is evil, then all men evrywhere may not admitt it is evil, but when they saw it they would know it too be evil.They would know because there conscience would convict from within, it is the silent voice in the courtroom that you can not argue against.But when it speaks it screams wrong, unjust, evil you are.Either you will eventualy delight in agreeing with you conscience and repent of your sins, or you will supress it to the point you no longer hear it, until the day God decides once more to awaken it with in a man.Never the less, on judgment day there will be none with the excuse of I didnt know. There conscience will bear witness against them.And God will be just in that He gave all men a chance to repent and know the truth, to know Him. Whether it was though His Spirit,  His Word, personal revelation, or declared in the heavens, all men know what is evil and good in the sight of the Lord, becaus eHe has declared it so.



Well I thought it was a fine exchange until all this.  I don't see any point in reading emotional responses so I quit after about the 3rd sentence.  Have a nice weekend.


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## SneekEE (Sep 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well I thought it was a fine exchange until all this.  I don't see any point in reading emotional responses so I quit after about the 3rd sentence.  Have a nice weekend.



who who calm down, not an emotional response, sorry if you took it that way.I had to make a post not long ago telling folks not to read to much emotions into my posts. i dont understand why it happens but 9 out of 10 of my posts that i make that are serious in any way people take it as if i am upset or mad. That is not  the case. i forget to use the lil smily faces and such. I guess it just seems like i am talking to an unemotional computor screen and forget you are a person with emotions who is reading it.So dont worry I am not upset, by the way, love you name ham. I was only saying if you want to know my beliefs i would love to tell ya, but not if you are going to twist what i say. I have not went to the school of discussion but it would seem only  proper that when speaking to people you dont add to what they are saying if they didnt say it.If you do, how can you discuss with them what they did not say.If you do not say a tree is purple with wings, how can expect you to argue or discuss a point you did not make. So if you are going to build our discussion on words i didnt say, then there is no sence me reading anyfarther, or discussing any farther, the point i never made. It is a waste of both out time and energy. But some folks like that, it is not about the truth, it is just a game of whits. I dont care for that game is all eye  am saying. And pleeze ovurlook my spellin!   .


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## farmasis (Sep 11, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Obviously,I was wrong about the basics.Child molestatation,killing an infant,by every means.Surely anyone can deem these as more than just wrong doing!


 
CH...don't take this the wrong way...but did not God command the killing of infants several times? Is he evil? I think we have to tread carefully here.

I tried to define evil in terms of an unbeliever....and that was the original request...and us Christians should be reminded that UNBELIEVERS were addressed here and if we want to participate we should not interject our gospel. 

This is the same thing that gets under our skin when athiest respond to religious threads similarly.


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## christianhunter (Sep 12, 2010)

farmasis said:


> CH...don't take this the wrong way...but did not God command the killing of infants several times? Is he evil? I think we have to tread carefully here.
> 
> I tried to define evil in terms of an unbeliever....and that was the original request...and us Christians should be reminded that UNBELIEVERS were addressed here and if we want to participate we should not interject our gospel.
> 
> This is the same thing that gets under our skin when athiest respond to religious threads similarly.



Right you are Brother,I contradicted myself.I'm just a man,thanks for the heads up.


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## thedeacon (Sep 12, 2010)

Evil is anything that might cause a negative effect toward Jesus to anyone.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 12, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Evil is anything that might cause a negative effect toward Jesus to anyone.



Negative effect toward Jesus to anyone....what does that mean?


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## thedeacon (Sep 12, 2010)

Any thing that gives off negitivity toward Christanity is evil, believer or non-believer.


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## Thor827 (Sep 12, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Any thing that gives off negitivity toward Christanity is evil, believer or non-believer.


Even if that negativity is caused by the actions of christians?


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## farmasis (Sep 12, 2010)

Here is my sunday school answer:

God is good. God is the only thing good.

Evil is the opposite of good.

so....

Evil is anything outside the will of God.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 12, 2010)

farmasis said:


> Here is my sunday school answer:
> 
> God is good. God is the only thing good.
> 
> ...



I don't even think the Taliban are that strict about it.


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## SneekEE (Sep 12, 2010)

farmasis said:


> Here is my sunday school answer:
> 
> God is good. God is the only thing good.
> 
> ...



eggzactlee, anything contrary too or against the nature of God, His Word, or Son, anythin that greives His spirit, is in fact the very definition of evil.


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## SneekEE (Sep 12, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I don't even think the Taliban are that strict about it.



actually they are, in fact there idea of evil could be considered to be even more strict than that.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 12, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> eggzactlee, anything contrary too or against the nature of God, His Word, or Son, anythin that greives His spirit, is in fact the very definition of evil.



So people who do not believe in God are evil?


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## christianhunter (Sep 12, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So people who do not believe in God are evil?



Evil has taken an increasing turn for me since my Salvation.I have been saved for 21 years now,and I see evil in things,I never used to notice.I think for believers,this is true to many, for the most part.

Since we are on the topic of evil.What seperates evil from sin?


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## farmasis (Sep 12, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So people who do not believe in God are evil?


 
I don't think all are...but what I think doesn't matter. Ask the judge.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 13, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Evil has taken an increasing turn for me since my Salvation.I have been saved for 21 years now,and I see evil in things,I never used to notice.I think for believers,this is true to many, for the most part.
> 
> Since we are on the topic of evil.What seperates evil from sin?



In my thinking, the only thing that seperates the two is the forgiveness of God.
For me, sin is evil and evil in sin.
Removing the word 'evil' from sin doesn't make sin one bit better.
There are no white lies, and there are no little sins.
As James said:  "One sin makes you guilty, without the blood of Jesus.


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## SneekEE (Sep 13, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> While I see what you are saying Im not the one to give this lesson to
> Im just stating what could possibly be going through her mind.
> Anothers wrong may be anothers right



naw naw naw u talking bout trash, another mans trash is another mans treasure.... i know, my pops owned a fle market, and he used to have me dig around in the trash to find treasure to sell in his mall, or super center, or fle market, or garage sale... depending on how you looked at it.


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## SneekEE (Sep 13, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So people who do not believe in God are evil?



To know evil you have to know what good is. God is by His nature good. All good flows from Him. Everything aginst or opposite of God, His word, His Son, His Spirit is evil is sin which is going against Gods good commandments.

You are plenty intelligent uhnuffins to know exactly what i meant the first time. But giving you the benifit of the doubt, I will try to answer that question as if you realy didnt understand me. 

Now, if you want me to start painting all people with a broad brush who are lost as beeing evil, I am not going to do that, because i dont know all lost people.How ever, i will let the Lord tell you if all people who are lost are evil, and He can rightously make that judgement because He knows the hearts of all men. So, lets ask Him.

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

actualy we dont know for sure if he was speaking to the lost there, but from that we can tell that Jesus believes people can be evil. Lets keep going....

Romans 3:9-10 and 18. "I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; no one seeks for God....There is no fear of God before their eyes."

all men are under the power of sin, the power of evil...


John 3:20-21  "Every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.(AKA NON_BELIEVER) But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." 


"Wrought in God" means worked by God. Apart from this gracious work of God all men hate the light of God and will not come to him lest their evil be exposed -- this is total rebellion. "No one seeks for God...There is no fear of God before their eyes!"

In Romans 14:23 Paul says, "Whatever is not from faith is sin." Therefore, if all men are in total rebellion, everything they do is the product of rebellion and cannot be an honor to God, but only part of their sinful rebellion. If a king teaches his subjects how to fight well and then those subjects rebel against their king and use the very skill he taught them to resist him, then even those skills become evil. 

Thus man does many things which he can only do because he is created in the image of God and which in the service of God could be praised. But in the service of man's self-justifying rebellion, these very things are sinful and evil.


Romans 7:18 Paul says, "I know that no good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh." .... how many are willing to admitt that??... but is it all men that have no good in them, or just Paul??/....

Jerh. 17: 9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? ... wicked is interchangable with evil... but does that mean they are evil, or just there ways????.....

John 3:19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

well hating the light would mean those who are lost, for jesus is the light.So at least we know all those who are lost and hate the light that if nothing elese there deeds are evil... but maby some are not evil, maby some are good, just, and rightous..... maby even you??..

Romans 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:  11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


Ok so I was wrong about that one. It is true, all men have sinned, me and you, all lied, stolen, blasphemed, and in the eyes of God, that is evil.If you search your heart, I guess you can decide if you are evil.... but then again .. as we read in jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things.... I wouldnt trust that sucker if I were you. But in your circumstances, the deeds you have done may have been the right thing to do, and not evil at all. I do think most men will do what most men do if they were in most mens shoes. And most men dont do what they know is wrong... wright??

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, 
but in the end it leads to death. ... even though it seems right to us, to God who is good, it is evil, it is sin.... and on judgment day it will lead to death... but I could be wrong, how can I know for sure?? I wouldnt worry about to much, or at least i didnt for a while...

 Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;...

but who would agree that any of that is truth??? You know if you are evil or not, i have no doubt you feel you are not an evil person... think of all the kind things you have done, surly you are a good man...

Prov. 20:6Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?

Ha! But if in fact we are all evil, we are all sinners, there is none good, no not one, then we are all evil and headed for he-ll! .. well that is kind of a small minded silly lil notion if you ask me. Doesnt make any sence at all that God would let some go to heaven and declare them to be rightous, while sending others too he-ll ---- and declaring them to be evil... seeing how according to the bible everyone is evil!! Crasy..

The bible even says ..They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Rom. 3:12

So who in there right mind can set here and say, who is and who is NOT evil?? Who in there right mind can set here and say who is and who is not going to heaven and  or he-ll?
Just  because some people cant deal with there sins, there fears, so they go to church and pray to God, that does not make them any better than anyone elese. In fact, it is hypocrytical to think that a man can sin, and go to church and say sorry lord, then think he is heaven bound the next day. I can assure i know plenty of people in church who live like the devil. So I can understand why it doesnt make any sence to say one is evil and one is not just because one is saved and one is not ?? Crasy indeed. ..

1 Cor. 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.  19 For it is written: 

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; 

the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”a

... well, it can be frustrating trying to talk to such illogical people as myself, who have the gaul to make such a statement as  all those who are lost are evil, and those who are saved are not.Surly God will see your good deeds, if God is real, and He will overlook all if any evil you may have had done. ...

All of us are sinners, capable of dooing evil to the utmost.But for those who have been born of God, and have placed there faith in the perfect sacrifice who is Jesus Christ, God does not see a single evil deed i ever done. His son was and is perfect, without evil. I am not going to heaven because of my deeds, I am not an angel because of my deeds, I am not rightous because of my deeds. God declared me to be rightous, because of the deeds of another, His Son. It is by the perfect life led by Christ, without evil, that I can say I am not evil, it is by His merit alone, that I can say I am not lost, for what He did, God has accredited it to my account... Without that, I would be more decpicable, more evil, more sinfull, more unholy, and more contrary against God in every way, in His eyes, then you ever thought a person could be.

 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


may sound crasy to some, but i believe it with all my heart...
Rom. 4 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 
 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.  22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.  23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 
 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;  25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


So I cant say all the lost folk are evil, cause i dont know um all. But I can say I think the bible says that, as well as I can say I believe the bible says that none who belong to the family of God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ ever have to worry about wheather or not God thinks they are evil. For He dont, He says they are justified, washed in the blood of the lamb, who was without spot or blemish and His rightousness has been imputed to me, not because i am good, but because of the goodness of God..


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## earl (Sep 13, 2010)

Do you truly believe that ALL who aren't Christian are evil ?


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## Diogenes (Sep 13, 2010)

All good flows only from the God of Christians?  

Who knew?

So that Hammurabi fella, around the 18th century B.C., was actually a Christian, but didn’t know it?  That is a pretty cool trick.  Boy howdy, does HE have egg on his face . . .


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## dawg2 (Sep 13, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So people who do not believe in God are evil?



No.  They are no more evil than whales that beach themselves.


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## thedeacon (Sep 13, 2010)

Thor827 said:


> Even if that negativity is caused by the actions of christians?



especially


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

earl said:


> Do you truly believe that ALL who aren't Christian are evil ?



U..... didnt weed... all.........of that up yander eye rote, didjah? I cant answer your question cause I would have as many different answers as there are definitions of the word christian. But If it helps I do believe the bible to be truth.


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> All good flows only from the God of Christians?
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> So that Hammurabi fella, around the 18th century B.C., was actually a Christian, but didn’t know it?  That is a pretty cool trick.  Boy howdy, does HE have egg on his face . . .



 Yup... heared a preacher talking about this once. he used hitler as an example.

 You see, God is good, He is by His nature GOOD. Ther is nothing good aside from Him, that does not flow from Him.
Men are evil, they hate God, rebel against God, and but by the grace of God, would never come to God, unless He out of His own goodness draws them unto Himself.

This is why you can not understand God, because you do not believe you are  evil in your rebillion against God if you are in rebelion. If you loved good, you would love God, and you would love dooing good. What is in the heart of a man that he does. God is good, if you love good, you love God. Sin is evil, if you love sin, you love evil.

Anything good in this world i do, any good in this world at all, God gets all the glory or recognition for that good. Because the good that we do, is givin to us to do, from God.

Hitler  with all those he killed, with all of the evil he did , still loved his mother....... why?

I mean, as evil as hitler was, he could have gone even farther and had his mother killed as well, couldnt he? So why as evil as Hitler was, did he still treat his mother with love, where did he aquire this small amount of goodness? Because he was as evil only as far as God would allow him to be. The love he had for his mother God put there to bless her. The only reason you have not committed the same attrocites as Hittler, is because God has only allowed you to go as far as you have in your evil, and there he said you will go no farther. And any good that is in you it is given to you by the grace of God, it is his goodness.

B4 God saved me, i could have passed by a person broken down on the side of the road and not cared if they needed help or not. I know, I am the only one that sorry, but it is true. But after God saved me, He gave me a new heart, a heart that was filled with love for all people as if they were my own people. So now when I pass someone broken down on the road, I stop to help. They may think this is a good deed i am dooing, but they dont understand that if God had left me in my evil state I would still have passed them right on by. So the good that i do is not of me, the glory goes to God.It is His love for all men that i now feel, that persuades me to love all men.


Another example. you will love this. Say an atheist decides to go and sell all he owns in this world, and he takes the money and walks barefoot through 4 feet of snow, and gives that money to his diying enemy so his enemy can recieve medical treatment to save his life. I believe a atheist can do good, this can happen. If he does that for his enemy, a man who lets say murdered the atheists family, do you think God views what that atheist did for his enemy as good, or do you think God sees that as sin?

Well, I can assure that God sees the act that the atheist did for his enemy as SIN, as evil. Why? Because God said what ever we do in this life do it for the glory of God.

If the atheist does not believe in God, then he didnt do it for Gods glory, and if it is not for the glory of God, then it is a sin.

Said all that to say  this, when we stand b4 God and He judges us, He is not going to weigh our good deeds against our bad deeds. We have no good deeds, all we have ever done is live eat and breath sin. We wallow in so much sin every day and do not even relise it. God said we are to be perfect in thought word and deed, at all times, and what ever we do we are to do it for His glory.

So on judgment day, let me tell  you what is going to happen. When I look at my beutifull wife for example, and if God has not saved her, then on judgment day what ever good I saw in her, what ever is lovly in her, what ever it is in her that I love, will return to the one who gave it too her, that beeing God. For all good comes from Him. And after all that is good in her is removed and returned to the one who gave it,and i look at her, what  will be left standing b4 me will be the most disgusting, despicable, horrible, sinfull, evil creature that you could ever imagine. She will make Hittler look like mother teresa.And though I love my wife, if that were to happen on judgment day, me and the entire host of heaven will shout in praise, and applaud when God says depart from you worker of iniquity, I never knew you.

None of this makes since because you dont believe men are evil. You do not understand that if God went right now and kicked open the doors of he-ll, and said yall can come out and live with me i n heaven, they would spit in His face and slam the door shut themselves, for wicked man hates a Holy God, and want nothing to do with Him.

God therefore is just in that if He chose too, He would be rightous if He let us all go to he-ll. But out of His own goodness, because by His nature , for He is GOOD, He chose to save some for His glory. He chose to die on the cross for a people who hate everything that He is. And if that is true, when we measure ourself against Him, we are all evil. He is the standard, and we missed the mark by so much that we are evil in His eyes.

Which of you would be willing to offer your childs life, in place of a man who deserves to die. Which of you are good enough to send your child to the electric chair, in the place of a guilty cold hearted murderer?We are all guilty of the crimes we committed against God.None of us are without sin. We have a court date in which we have already been declared guilty. We await the punishment. But God has offered a pardon, through His Son. God has paid the price, He has paid the penelty for breaking His laws. And the child that took our punishment was His, and He knew no sin, He committed no crime, He was innocent, we are not.

whether  you love God or hate Him, He alone is worthy of your worship, for He alone is Good.And any goodness you may see in me, I can assure you what you are seeing is not me, but God and His goodness.

sorry i have to write long posts, but i dont stay around too long, so it eventually evens out in the long run.


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> No.  They are no more evil than whales that beach themselves.



whales are evil, they ate Johnah.


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Evil has taken an increasing turn for me since my Salvation.I have been saved for 21 years now,and I see evil in things,I never used to notice.I think for believers,this is true to many, for the most part.
> 
> Since we are on the topic of evil.What seperates evil from sin?



A good sighn that you are truly born again, not only do you have a new relationship with God, but you have a new relationship with sin.

And the things you now see as sin, are nothing compared to the inumerable things that are also sin that you have yet too see. In this life we will never truly see just how big a debt Christ paid.


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

earl said:


> Do you truly believe that ALL who aren't Christian are evil ?



No Earl, just you. Jus kiddin, I love you Earl.


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Sep 14, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Lets go ahead and do away with the obvious.Murder,Rape,Child abuse,Incest,hate,and all of the child pornography.
> 
> On an everyday basis,what is evil?



Evil and a violation of my Constitutional rights - not being able to buy beer on Sunday.


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## dawg2 (Sep 14, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> whales are evil, they ate Johnah.



According to the Koran and the OT, the whale spit him out


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## farmasis (Sep 14, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> All good flows only from the God of Christians?
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> So that Hammurabi fella, around the 18th century B.C., was actually a Christian, but didn’t know it? That is a pretty cool trick. Boy howdy, does HE have egg on his face . . .


 

It isn't what you are (what you call yourself)..it is who you know.

You can be a Christian and be evil. Evil is outside the will of God. Not the Christian God...the only God.


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## SneekEE (Sep 14, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> According to the Koran and the OT, the whale spit him out



In that case, the whales repented and are forgiven of there sins...lol!


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## Diogenes (Sep 15, 2010)

“The only reason you have not committed the same attrocites as Hittler, is because God has only allowed you to go as far as you have in your evil, and there he said you will go no farther. “

Clean up on Aisle Six.


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