# suicide



## huntmore (Apr 19, 2011)

Do people who commit suicide go to bleep?


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## DavidB (Apr 19, 2011)

The truth is no one knows for sure. As far as I know, there is no scripture that says one way or the other. There are those who put forth the theory that a saved person would not, and unsaved person would. 

I can't imagine any reason a person would want to risk the possibility of spending eternity there rather than dealing with what ever their issue is during this brief life though. Problem is a person contemplating taking their own life is probably not thinking too clearly to begin with.


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## farmasis (Apr 20, 2011)

I think Romans 8:38-39 answers that question for believers.


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## stringmusic (Apr 20, 2011)

farmasis said:


> I think Romans 8:38-39 answers that question for believers.



That pretty much covers it!


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## formula1 (Apr 20, 2011)

*Re:*

Farmasis, great scriptures!

As one who has been directly affected , I would simply say that the island of self is a miserable place to end up. Yet God has even given us victory over that in Christ Jesus.


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## crackerdave (Apr 20, 2011)

As someone who has suffered severe depression, I know what it's like to seriously contemplate suicide.And,as Forrest Gump said,"That's all I got to say about that."


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## Corey J (May 17, 2011)

i strongly believe that you cannot lose your salvation! suicide is no exception..


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## BCPerry (May 19, 2011)

Interesting topic guys. I have always heard that suicide is a one way ticket to "bleep". Are there more scriptures that are against that, or is the Romans 8:38-39 the only one you can think of.


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## Jeffriesw (May 19, 2011)

BCPerry, I think the questions goes deeper than going to Heaven or Bleep over suicide or any other such action. 
IMHO the question might do better to be asked with a series of questions.

Whom is the one who initiates it?
How is/was salvation made possible?
Who was it made possible?
Does it depend on me or Him to sustain it?
Who is sovereign, me or Him?

At work right now typing on an itty bitty iPhone, I"ll try to address it better when I get home tonight.


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## Israel (May 23, 2011)

I used to be rather strident about this because I was always concerned with never wanting to appear as one condoning suicide in any fashion. Not that I believed a suicide was beyond God's mercy...but to even suggest that one might find mercy in it might be seen as some sort of endorsement in some sense. 

So, I have been very careful to come down...not so much in a "suicide means you are lost" attitude as "brothers, be careful what you say about it as some may take it as a satisfactory means to the Lord's ends."
So, with all fear, I still hold that position.

But...(and you knew the "but" was coming)...I will say this.
I have spent enough time in observation and consideration of life...(my own and others) to come to this conclusion. Sometimes we do not avail ourselves of all the life in the spirit to completely overcome. Sometimes we are overcome (Or feel we are)...and I have known those times. Sometimes the harshness of life in these weak vessels seems to be more real than the mercy of God. 

And I KNOW...it has only been at those times that the Lord has kept me from doing anything about it...or "taking matters into my own hands" so to speak...to end what seems an overwhelming sense of pain whose only seeming relief is just to get out of this body.

(Mar 14:34  And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. ) 
I would like to say that the experience of having ones soul "troubled unto death"
is not quite as real in the Lord as it sometimes seems, but that is not my experience. And yes, I submit to those who will say "you have not yet begun in your presumption to experience the Lord's sorrows)...but be that as it may...I have seen sorrow (in myself and others)...and surely tasted grace and mercy.

So, if I know it has, at those times, only been mercy that has kept me...could I be so presumptuous to think that God withholds his mercy from those that succumb to despair? God forbid.

And here is something else. What of all the many things, self destructive as we may know they are...that kill us by degrees...those things I have seen others unable to shake...and some perhaps with me, that remain, that speak of some inner will to remain in bondage to the flesh...and that will...or indeed may (again, apart from the intervention of God) result in our demise?

There are, I believe..."slow suicides"...and yes...one may say "well, in that case...God has given time to repent...and in the other...since their repentance has never reached our ears...they obviously died under condemnation". But who is to say?
Who may have kicked the chair away and said to the Lord...OH, forgive me...I have done something stupid and selfish!
Who may say God has not given each a time to repent...even in what appears to us the milliseconds from primer ignition to discharge?
I do not even want to make the case that one has to do anything about it at all...but I surely cannot discount the very real possibility for those who place their trust in repentance...that God has not allowed for that.

I guess what I am saying, I am saying only to those of us who remain "in these bodies"...for those gone on are already the recipients of God's perfect decisions. 

So, that we who remain, might not discount God's wondrous mercy, nor be provoked to ever disdain a brother whose terrible moment of trial seems to be totally bereft of faith. For even when I seem to be without faith...when I find myself unable to utter even a prayer of help...I have always found One willing to come unbidden to my side, and be a very present help. 

And I have learned it is not of me to will, nor of me to perform...but of his grace and mercy alone. Him will I extoll, him will I glory in, and to Him, in all things, judgment is rightly given.


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## Sargent (May 23, 2011)

My uncle was a Christian.  He was saved.

He was also mentally ill.  Specifically, he had a neurological chemical imbalance.  He took drugs (some prescribed, some not) to deal with his mental illness. 

He committed suicide.  We believe he was hallucinating when he did it.

I don't believe he was condemned for this.


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## JustUs4All (May 23, 2011)

Similarly, I can not believe that a merciful God would require a slow death by roasting if a more humane end was open to the believer.


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## formula1 (May 23, 2011)

*Re:*



JustUs4All said:


> Similarly, I can not believe that a merciful God would require a slow death by roasting if a more humane end was open to the believer.



Perhaps the better question would be why would a merciful God allow anyone to enter into eternal life with Him? Because His only son, Jesus Christ, paid your passage, so that you don't have to receive eternal death.  All He requires is your trust (your belief).  And for the record, we believers didn't set the standard or make the rules! We just report them.


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## Lead Poison (May 24, 2011)

I do not believe suicide condemns one to the hot place for eternity.

Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sins, including suicide.

There is NO sin bigger than the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus!

Rejecting Jesus is the only thing that sends someone there.


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## preacherman (May 24, 2011)

My personal belief is that I am not the judge of a man's heart.  I will leave that up to God.  As for me, though, I know that I don't want to put myself in that position.


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## mtnwoman (May 27, 2011)

If you are saved, suicide is no worse than smoking yourself to death nor drinking yourself to death, nor driving at a high rate of speed and crashing into a concrete median.

Anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill in some way.

I do not believe that you go to, you know where if you commit suicide as long as you have been redeemed, delivered, saved, etc.


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## Gabassmaster (May 31, 2011)

Wherever death finds you.. so shall the judgment


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## BCPerry (Jun 1, 2011)

Lead Poison said:


> I do not believe suicide condemns one to the hot place for eternity.
> 
> Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sins, including suicide.
> 
> ...



But don't you have to ask forgiveness for your sins. How do you ask forgiveness for suicide after you shoot yourself, cut your wrists, jump off the building, or any whatever means you use?


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## Israel (Jun 1, 2011)

BCPerry said:


> But don't you have to ask forgiveness for your sins. How do you ask forgiveness for suicide after you shoot yourself, cut your wrists, jump off the building, or any whatever means you use?



Let me ask you this...

After you 'sin" who decides to give you time to repent...or, more rightly, who could, at the very moment of your (and mine) most selfish and devious attempts to satisfy our flesh, instead allows us to see our error and seek mercy?
You think he can't do that to a jumper? Someone who kicks the chair aside and lets the noose tighten?
How much time do you think it takes? 
Do you believe the maker of time has enough to spare some for repentance?


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## BCPerry (Jun 1, 2011)

Israel said:


> Let me ask you this...
> 
> After you 'sin" who decides to give you time to repent...or, more rightly, who could, at the very moment of your (and mine) most selfish and devious attempts to satisfy our flesh, instead allows us to see our error and seek mercy?
> You think he can't do that to a jumper? Someone who kicks the chair aside and lets the noose tighten?
> ...



I believe he has the time. I also believe that God forgives anyone who asks for it. I am just posing the question that when are you going to ask for forgiveness for taking your own life? Not after you do it. That is unless he allows you to do it while you are standing at judgement.


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## Israel (Jun 1, 2011)

BCPerry said:


> I believe he has the time. I also believe that God forgives anyone who asks for it. I am just posing the question that when are you going to ask for forgiveness for taking your own life? Not after you do it. That is unless he allows you to do it while you are standing at judgement.



No, I am not trying to make a case for repentance post departure.
What I am saying is this, do you find it impossible to imagine someone jumping off a building and the moment they do it understanding it was a very bad idea? Or someone taking some pills...and as they slip inot unconsciousness asking for mercy? 
Again...I am not saying this is what happens, always happens...or never happens. I am saying that because I can see how it might, and knowing of God's great mercy, it would be presumptuous of me to assume that once they find themselves seemingly commited to an outcome, they could never think better (repent) of it.

Of course here's the kicker. Someone could say "well, if they died as a result...therefore,  it was God's will they die...and he'd already let them get to the point of taking their own lives knowing no repentance was possible..." I couldn't dispute that, either.
Essentially what I am saying is that a case can be made for almost any scenario we desire. 

But I will add this. Really, how much different would that be than saying a believer who died in a speeding accident must be condemned, because, after all, disobedience caused his demise?

But as I go on in the Lord, I am finding that always seems to be the most essential point regarding anything about him, the point of departure at which I find dogma woefully ill equipped to circumscribe the Lord's mercy.
What is the desire? Do we desire judgment...or mercy?

Some seem to continually tout justice...as though they could really handle a plateful if the Lord served it up and said..."OK, eat!"

Me, I am seeing how much I need mercy, so I'd better order that up for others if I hope to receive some for myself.


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## stringmusic (Jun 1, 2011)

BCPerry said:


> I believe he has the time. I also believe that God forgives anyone who asks for it. I am just posing the question that* when are you going to ask for forgiveness for taking your own life? *Not after you do it. That is unless he allows you to do it while you are standing at judgement.



Ones doesnt have to... if their debt is paid by the blood of Jesus Christ. Washed clean of sin, pre/present/post.


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## wild1 (Jun 6, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Ones doesnt have to... if their debt is paid by the blood of Jesus Christ. Washed clean of sin, pre/present/post.



Amen


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## BobKat (Jun 7, 2011)

i dont think jesus will condemn u for commiting suicide.


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## thedeacon (Jun 7, 2011)

I think sometimes we worry to much about who is going to he11, and why they are going there when we should be worrying about our closest relations and are they going to heaven.

Should we not be worring about who is going to heaven and trying to spread the word with the persistance of a deciple.

As far the matter of suicide, the bible does not address it directly but I think that most people that take their own life has some sort of mental problem.

I think that God in his wisdom did not address this in a direct way with us because maybe every situation has to be addressed independant of the other.

Suicide is a terrible thing and a problem in our country and in our community. I read recently that about 70 per cent of the people in the United States has at least thought about taking their own life.

That is a high number and proves that there is a spiritual problem in our Christian family. Churches along with our civil Government both local and nationl should be paying attention to what we see and hear.

In high school one of my friends attemped suicide, he failed, about a year after graduation he tried again and did not fail.

Eddie had problems and I don't know if he went to heaven or not but I cannot believe that him taking his life kept him out. The two that raised him will suffer more from God about suicide that Eddie will,  IN MY OPINION.


We need to be more concerned with the problems leading to suicide than the results.

Don't underestimate the length of God's Mercy and Grace.


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## Michael F. Gray (Jun 7, 2011)

Formula 1 & Preacherman submit good posts with valid points. What begs to be interjected is the fact our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost. State of mind, or mental ability, or slowly destroying it via sinful habits may be mitigating factors, HOWEVER, we are forgetting we are not the judge. As valid as some interesting thoughts are posted herein, they matter not. The final judgment will be exactly that, FINAL. Whether at the judgment seat of Christ or the great white throne judgment, we will be judged by the WORD. Amazing to me how so many who know so little of it have such unsubstantiated opinions never based on the scripture by which all shall give account. Every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess. It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgment.


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## Spotlite (Jun 7, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Ones doesnt have to... if their debt is paid by the blood of Jesus Christ. Washed clean of sin, pre/present/post.



let me ask you a question. if this were the case.................wouldnt it be useless for anyone to ask for forgiveness for anything if the debt is already paid?? According to this logic, there is no need for the hot place, everyone is forgiven regardless and can live anyway they want toSeems to be pointless to even say it was "for whosoever will".....................


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## stringmusic (Jun 7, 2011)

Spotlite said:


> let me ask you a question. if this were the case.................wouldnt it be useless for anyone to ask for forgiveness for anything if the debt is already paid??


The debt is only paid _after_ acceptance of Jesus Christ.



> According to this logic, there is no need for the hot place, everyone is forgiven


see above statement.



> regardless and can live anyway they want to


IMO, after someone has given their live to Christ, the want to serve Him and His will should be at the forefront of that persons life in which the Holy Spirit will be leading. So the "I accepted Jesus, now I live however I choose" is truly not my view.
However, I also do not believe in confessing every sin, every time. I sin and I know it, I dont like it but it has come to be my nature. I cant remember all my sins, how in the world would I confess all of them?
My point was, a person commiting suicide is not going to he11 because they did not have time to confess that sin, that would hinge on that particular persons relationship, or lack there of, with Christ.


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## germag (Jun 7, 2011)

OK....let me ask a question here. I have a disease called AML. It is a very aggressive form of leukemia, it is a cancer of the bone marrow. Right now they treatments are going well and I'm scheduled to have a bone marrow transplant July 16. I have a very good chance of survival with the transplant. If the transplant fails or if I didn't have the transplant, my chances of surviving much longer are slim.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not contemplating suicide. I think I'm going to beat it. 

But, if I were to find myself facing a slow, miserable, but certain death from this disease, would I be wrong to choose to end it early in a painless fashion?


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## BobKat (Jun 7, 2011)

germag said:


> OK....let me ask a question here. I have a disease called AML. It is a very aggressive form of leukemia, it is a cancer of the bone marrow. Right now they treatments are going well and I'm scheduled to have a bone marrow transplant July 16. I have a very good chance of survival with the transplant. If the transplant fails or if I didn't have the transplant, my chances of surviving much longer are slim.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not contemplating suicide. I think I'm going to beat it.
> 
> But, if I were to find myself facing a slow, miserable, but certain death from this disease, would I be wrong to choose to end it early in a painless fashion?



Personally I think its ur choice, but its a permanent fix to a temporary problem that's what my friends tell me when I was in a bad place.


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## groundhawg (Jun 7, 2011)

BCPerry said:


> But don't you have to ask forgiveness for your sins. How do you ask forgiveness for suicide after you shoot yourself, cut your wrists, jump off the building, or any whatever means you use?



But is suicide a sin?  If not why would you have to ask forgiveness?


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## germag (Jun 7, 2011)

BobKat said:


> Personally I think its ur choice, but its a permanent fix to a temporary problem that's what my friends tell me when I was in a bad place.



No, AML is most certainly not a temporary problem. When the Doctors tell you theres nothing more they can do, it's simply waiting for the Leukemia to kill you from that point. It's not a real pleasant way to die. 

Killing yourself because you're depressed over whatever is happening at the moment is a permanent solution to a temporary problem....you can get past depression and move on.

What I'm talking about is when you are terminally ill and death is imminent.


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## stringmusic (Jun 7, 2011)

germag said:


> OK....let me ask a question here. I have a disease called AML. It is a very aggressive form of leukemia, it is a cancer of the bone marrow. Right now they treatments are going well and I'm scheduled to have a bone marrow transplant July 16. I have a very good chance of survival with the transplant. If the transplant fails or if I didn't have the transplant, my chances of surviving much longer are slim.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not contemplating suicide. I think I'm going to beat it.
> 
> But, if I were to find myself facing a slow, miserable, but certain death from this disease, would I be wrong to choose to end it early in a painless fashion?



I dont know the answer to your question, but I hope everything goes well for you with the transplant and you have a speedy recovery!


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## germag (Jun 7, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I dont know the answer to your question, but I hope everything goes well for you with the transplant and you have a speedy recovery!



Thanks! That's what I'm going for. My chances are very good..

My question above was purely hypothetical. For the people that believe that suicide is never justifiable or forgiveable......


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## BobKat (Jun 7, 2011)

germag said:


> No, AML is most certainly not a temporary problem. When the Doctors tell you theres nothing more they can do, it's simply waiting for the Leukemia to kill you from that point. It's not a real pleasant way to die.
> 
> Killing yourself because you're depressed over whatever is happening at the moment is a permanent solution to a temporary problem....you can get past depression and move on.
> 
> What I'm talking about is when you are terminally ill and death is imminent.



Im sorry that's what I meant was what u said I didn't mean in your situation. I hope treatment goes well


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## j_seph (Jun 7, 2011)

Just another thought as well. Someone whom has terminal cancer, they suffer for a year and at a young age and then pass away. I have heard folks ask why would God let this happen. We know not why this happened at a young age but we do know that it happened for a reason. It just came into my mind that what if a suicide happened for a reason? One of my best friends found his brother in his bed where he had used his own gun. That friend of mine was headed down a real bad road during that time. He has sense given it all to the Lord and is know preaching. I mean he has turned from black to white. If not for his brother where would he be now? I could be way out of line here but again it was a thought that hit me.


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## germag (Jun 7, 2011)

j_seph said:


> Just another thought as well. Someone whom has terminal cancer, they suffer for a year and at a young age and then pass away. I have heard folks ask why would God let this happen. We know not why this happened at a young age but we do know that it happened for a reason. It just came into my mind that what if a suicide happened for a reason? One of my best friends found his brother in his bed where he had used his own gun. That friend of mine was headed down a real bad road during that time. He has sense given it all to the Lord and is know preaching. I mean he has turned from black to white. If not for his brother where would he be now? I could be way out of line here but again it was a thought that hit me.



I'm with you. I think there is a reason for everything....sometimes we may never know what it is, but it's there.


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## truthfulhawk (Jul 12, 2011)

*truth*

I can tell you unequivacably that it is the renouncing of the Holy Spirit..the denial of Christ and salvation that dooms one. 
Suicide isn't indiciative of not being saved. Take for instance someone who is chemicaly imbalanced or has experienced trauma, mental issues, even drug interactions...this person might make an irrational decision...a decision that might be against that person's very base nature. One split second decision made by someone who is not in control of their thoughts...does not doom one. 

If one truly believes on Christ as Lord and Savior, do you think God would revoke salvation because someone had a bad reaction to a legal prescription drug or because a person suffered clinical depression? 

However, if you are not saved by Grace through faith, then it doesn't matter how you die.


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## Ronnie T (Jul 12, 2011)

germag said:


> I'm with you. I think there is a reason for everything....sometimes we may never know what it is, but it's there.



Just to provide a different point of view, I disagree with you and the other brother.
I don't believe everything happens because God ordains it or because it's something God places in our life.

I believe things happen in our lives that God did not want to happen.
Things that God wishes would not have happened.
Things that are against what God would want for us.
But, through God, all things will ultimately work for good.

I believe people get cancer because mankind developed the chemicals and other things that brought on cancerous tumors in our bodies.  We deal with it.  God will see us though.

I believe auto accidents happen because people go to sleep behind the wheel, or tires blow out, not because God decides it time for us to suffer and bleed a little.

Now, don't get me wrong.  God is all powerful in anything His wishes.  I just don't believe we're accurate when we tell the family of a 10 year little girl with cancer that this is God's will.
I think it's a lie.
God didn't make me break wind a little while ago and God didn't make me stump my toe a couple of nights ago.

Will God make me suffer the consequences of a sinful life?  Yes, I believe He will.  But I don't believe everything in life has God's signature on it.


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## mtnwoman (Jul 24, 2011)

Unfortunately I had a very good friend of 30 years that committed suicide last summer. She had fought that battle for a few years before.

She ask me once did I think Judas went to bleep for committing suicide and I said I didn't know. 

Then she ask me where in the bible could I prove to her that suicide was a sin, I said 'thou shalt not kill'.

I struggled with her for quite a few years helping to undergird her, we both failed, I guess. She certainly changed from her old fun loving self into being totally obsessed with suicide. She had many reasons to be depressed but her mindset was changed on many things, too.

She was a good Christian girl otherwise and I know she was saved and am sure she is at peace with our Lord.


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## Bama4me (Jul 24, 2011)

Is suicide sin?  Yes... and sin will cause us to lose our souls.  As a result, suicide can condemn us.  However, and it's been cited in a few posts above, the VAST majority of people who take their own life have mental illnesses... in other words, they won't be held accountable for their actions in that condition.

Regarding everything happening as "God's will"... God's will for mankind is stated in 2 Peter 3:9 - everyone to be saved.  The fact everyone isn't saved clearly indicates God's will doesn't always occur... it's a direct product of God giving us free moral agency.


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## huntmore (Aug 2, 2011)

germag said:


> OK....let me ask a question here. I have a disease called AML. It is a very aggressive form of leukemia, it is a cancer of the bone marrow. Right now they treatments are going well and I'm scheduled to have a bone marrow transplant July 16. I have a very good chance of survival with the transplant. If the transplant fails or if I didn't have the transplant, my chances of surviving much longer are slim.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not contemplating suicide. I think I'm going to beat it.
> 
> But, if I were to find myself facing a slow, miserable, but certain death from this disease, would I be wrong to choose to end it early in a painless fashion?



We are all dieing!!!


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