# where have all the quail gone



## billy62green (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm somewhat new to looking at the threads on quail hunting and I'm sure this has been talked about many times, but what happened to quail in Georgia? I grew up on a farm in Carroll county and as a kid hunted them all the time. Many of the old timers kept pointers just for that reason. It was a big thing in our area up through the 70's. Sometime I'm guessing in the mid 80s they started getting fewer and fewer and I bet I haven't seen a wild covey in our area in 20 years. The sound of the bobwhite was heard in the pastures around where I grew up all the time and now is no more. I've heard various theories such as coyotes fire ants and habitat loss. What happened?


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## chadf (Jan 21, 2014)

Less habitat.

Only place I know with a awesome population in ga is a private cattle farm I hunt, he doesn't clean/spray, they sing every morning/through out the day, more than one flock or group can be heard from the porch like clock work.


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## rhbama3 (Jan 21, 2014)

billy62green said:


> I'm somewhat new to looking at the threads on quail hunting and I'm sure this has been talked about many times, but what happened to quail in Georgia? I grew up on a farm in Carroll county and as a kid hunted them all the time. Many of the old timers kept pointers just for that reason. It was a big thing in our area up through the 70's. Sometime I'm guessing in the mid 80s they started getting fewer and fewer and I bet I haven't seen a wild covey in our area in 20 years. The sound of the bobwhite was heard in the pastures around where I grew up all the time and now is no more. I've heard various theories such as coyotes fire ants and habitat loss. What happened?


I think you answered your own question. Varmint population explosion, fire ants, and habitat loss as the number one. In the 70's, we could go to south Alabama and fill up a 5 gallon bucket walking the old homesteads that had hedgerows of sage and briars. By the late 80's, the fur market was pretty much destroyed, the fire ants were everywhere,  and  those  old homestead places had been removed and replaced with row crop acreage. The quail and rabbit populations plummeted accordingly. This scenario has been repeated all over the south and wild quail are on the verge of being a thing of the past.


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## Luke0927 (Jan 22, 2014)

chadf said:


> Less habitat.
> 
> Only place I know with a awesome population in ga is a private cattle farm I hunt, he doesn't clean/spray, they sing every morning/through out the day, more than one flock or group can be heard from the porch like clock work.



yeah when we  going down there....

Quail can't eat pine needles and fescue.  Crops are from tree line to tree line and sprayed with herbicide and pesticide no weed seeds no insects.


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## birddog52 (Jan 22, 2014)

Alot of things has caused the decline of ole bob around here farming practices fescue pastures spreading chicken litter transmits diease plus on what littel timber company lands going back and spraying hebrsides to kill wood plants.need some crp programs around here plant native grasse and leave some food around edges of soybean field and cornfields would help( doubt there is enough wild birds left to re establish there selves)


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## panfried0419 (Jan 22, 2014)

You find them on multi-million dollar quail plantations where they are taken from the hatchery straight to a bush to be kicked and shot

Last quail I shot in the wild early 90s in Fayette County


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## PopPop (Jan 22, 2014)

I see Quail on my place but I will not ever hunt them again. As boys we would wander the edges and shoot a limit at will, without dogs.
They can be brought back, but it takes a lot of effort and cooperation between landowners. 
The heyday of southern Bobwhite Quail hunting is gone forever. But we do have a lot of pine trees.


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## GLS (Jan 22, 2014)

As noted above, there are multiple factors involved.  I've read somewhere that there may be a parasite at play that has affected populations in TX.


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## chadf (Jan 22, 2014)

Mother nature will let them prospour if the habit can hold them.
My $.02 

Luke* soon !


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## Headsortails (Jan 22, 2014)

Tall Timbers Research Center has raised one wild quail per acre. It takes a lot of work and time but it can be done.


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## GA DAWG (Jan 22, 2014)

I remember having several covey here on our farm in the late 80s through about mid to late 90s. Nothing has changed here really EXCEPT all the houses being built around our few hundred ac. I've not saw a covey in yrs and yrs. I did flush up one little quail last yr. It looks to be perfect habitat. Hardwood draws. Big fields. Grown up places all over. Grown up fence lines. Thick bottom land. I think the deer musta stomped them to death We did turn out a bunch to hunt one day. It took us lube 20 min to get back. Get dogs and guns ready. When we got back down there. Hawks were already picking them off one by one.


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## siberian1 (Jan 22, 2014)

Chicken litter and habitat loss


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## con50582 (Jan 24, 2014)

Just like everywhere else, change in farming practices.  I used to slay them in IL, moved to GA (the quail mecca) and it's the same as IL is now, tough.

Still nothing better than spending the day in the woods with your dog.


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## Jeff Phillips (Jan 24, 2014)

Our place in Taylor County is loaded. Seen as any as 50 in a food plot.

They have not been hunted in years.


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## coveyrise90 (Jan 25, 2014)

GA DAWG said:


> It looks to be perfect habitat. Hardwood draws. Big fields. Grown up places all over. Grown up fence lines. Thick bottom land.



Overgrown fence rows are great but hardwood draws, thick bottomland, and big fields are horrible quail habitat.

Small fields seperated by thick hedgerows, and fire-maintained upland pines will give quail the cover they prefer and thrive in.

Adam


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## Buckbuster (Jan 25, 2014)

I jumped a covey in a new club I joined in Heard county during deer season, first covey I have seen since about 1980, sure was glad to see them.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 26, 2014)

I'll go to my grave saying the fire ants caused the bobwhite's decline. About the time the ants exploded is when we stopped finding quail and got rid of our dogs. I'm sure habitat loss played a role too but anyone who hunts quail knows that it doesn't take much land for a quail to live on. I know places that look pretty much the same today as they did 40 years ago. If they had birds then why not now? For that matter, I grew up within two miles of the town square in  Covington. I remember finding quail nests in our neighborhood and my neighbor had a covey that fed in his yard. BF Grant WMA is another example, 11000 acres that was once covered in quail, hardly any today.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 27, 2014)

It ain't the fire ants. We don't have any fire ants up here in the mountains, but our formerly abundant quail mostly disappeared sometime in the late 80s-early 90s. That's roughly about the same time that everybody went out and got a bushhog and a tank sprayer full of brush killer and started keeping their farms looking like golf course fairways. And started liming all the broom sedge fields and planting them in fescue. About the same time that the turkey population exploded, too. Places where you used to could jump several big coveys a day, now there are none, and very few rabbits.Used to be a lot of grouse, too, but I hardly ever see one of them now, either.


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## BirdNut (Jan 27, 2014)

I have to respectfully disagree with the fire ant theory as well.  Now certainly, fire ants may predate the occasional nest right at the hatch as has been documented, but Texas is covered up with fire ants where I have hunted, and previous years we were moving 12-14 coveys a day in poor drough years, and this year we had a stellar year with 20 and 22 coveys respectively.  Mexico is also covered up with ants and we have seen as many as 40 coveys in a day when our shooting was off.

I think it is more habitat related.  The introduction and proliferation of improved grasses in pastures (fescue and bermuda), coupled with "clean" farm practices.  Birds can really give you the slip in the right kind of habitat that allows them to run and hide.   They can't do either in fescue or bermuda, and there is no food value either.   I am sure lack of predator control via trapping or other methods has in impact.

Matter of fact, I was just reading an old book wherein the author was talking about plenty of rabbits mean lots of other game since hawks and other predators would key on rabbits before quail/grouse/turkey.


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## OILMAN (Jan 27, 2014)

Guys, 
    Its a simple answer- Habitat. More so than all of the other factors combined. Go to any large enough landscape with low bird density- then thin the hardwoods, burn small acreages, 20-50 acres at a time in a checkerboard pattern- and the quail numbers will dramatically increase. If you really want to make a difference, join QF, support habitat improvement projects, and take a kid hunting.


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## Resica (Jan 27, 2014)

Cover, Cover, Cover. Our quail and pheasant populations disappeared here as well. Southeastern Pennsylvania had as good or better pheasant hunting in the 50's , 60's and early 70's than anywhere in the Midwest. They're gone now.


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## Hammock (Jan 31, 2014)

You may think I am crazy but the number one predator of a quail is a house cat. Also ride around a big privately owned plantation and look at the hard wood bottoms and edge of fields they are pretty clean you don’t see any privet hedge or undesirable plants. It’s all about habitat  We all have our own theories fire ants, predators, farming practice and weather conditions but the main factor always comes back to the change of habitat. We have so many more invasive plants trees and shrubs that provide no benefit for quail or other wildlife than we did in the 50’s,60’s and 70’s. That’s my theory.


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## twtabb (Jan 31, 2014)

I am working on mine. Rotate burning, attempt to reduce predators, some supplemental feeding in winter, leaving some cover on fence rows. I am going to try the pallet nesting pyramids this year and a few small food plots.

I am starting to see some birds. Probably never have enough to hunt but you never know.


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## flyfisher76544 (Feb 3, 2014)

Predator management, you can have all the cover in the world. But every critter out there will kill those quail.


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## BirdNut (Feb 3, 2014)

Hammock said:


> You may think I am crazy but the number one predator of a quail is a house cat. Also ride around a big privately owned plantation and look at the hard wood bottoms and edge of fields they are pretty clean you don’t see any privet hedge or undesirable plants. It’s all about habitat  We all have our own theories fire ants, predators, farming practice and weather conditions but the main factor always comes back to the change of habitat. We have so many more invasive plants trees and shrubs that provide no benefit for quail or other wildlife than we did in the 50’s,60’s and 70’s. That’s my theory.



This is a pretty sound set of observations.  I have a lease that holds a few wild quail still, holding on by their toe nails.  I see house cats prowling around places the coveys haunt.



flyfisher76544 said:


> Predator management, you can have all the cover in the world. But every critter out there will kill those quail.



I once read, don't remember where, a quail biologist or manager saying that "quail are like the potato chips of the world-everything eats them"


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## OILMAN (Feb 6, 2014)

There were just as many predators in the 50s, 60s, and 70s...granted fur prices were higher. Predator control is a huge factor- take a look at its impact on di-lane; but quailty quail cover helps protect the birds and the broods.


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## BirdNut (Feb 6, 2014)

OILMAN said:


> There were just as many predators in the 50s, 60s, and 70s...granted fur prices were higher. Predator control is a huge factor- take a look at its impact on di-lane; but quailty quail cover helps protect the birds and the broods.



DL did 5 things in the past 6-8 years or so
1)  Began some aggressive Predator control as you mentioned
2) thinned the hard woods out / killed off hardwoods shoots 
3) thinned a lot of pines
4) burnt more than they did prior
5) recently, added quite a number of feeders to the landscape.

not sure which one or which combination is most responsible for the number of birds seen lately.

I also unsure whether they sprayed or took other measure to control improved grasses (fescue and bermuda).  there was not a lot to begin with.

I do know there were between 50-60 coveys on the place before all this started.

I also know that due mainly to the hardwood manipulation, birds are found in a lot different places than they were before.  There were a few swamp coveys and scrub oak coveys we could count on every year that don't exist anymore or changed addresses.

I am not sure on the population density now.  I personally found more birds a few years back when i had younger and more dogs, and a more determined set of hunting partners.  these days, joyfully, my hunting companions are my 10 & 13 year old boys, a couple of my dogs (in the same age range!), and me.  Its great to hunt with your kids, but they can't get after it hard all day long like the old crew, and neither can the dogs anymore.


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## Luke0927 (Feb 7, 2014)

OILMAN said:


> There were just as many predators in the 50s, 60s, and 70s...granted fur prices were higher. Predator control is a huge factor- take a look at its impact on di-lane; but quailty quail cover helps protect the birds and the broods.



Well hawks/owls tear up my chickens and guineas and everyone one I know that had quail on their land back then would shoot them onsite if they could...Avian predators put a hurting on them and I'd say there are more now (but I wasn't around back then just going on what I've been told).  When I would hunt out in Kansas seemed like there was a hawk/falcon every few hundred yards on a fence post.


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## OILMAN (Feb 10, 2014)

@Birdnut- Hunting on Di-lane has averaged a bird/1.8 acres. Pretty dang good for public land. I've talked to Reggie Thackston (Head of Ga's Private Lands Quail Program and point person for the new quail focal areas) pretty extensively. All of those factors come together to help out.  More than anything, habitat loss remains the #1 factor for quail decline- look at aerial photos of Georgia from the 60s and compare them to now- the dramatic change in farming, raising cattle, and growth of suburbs is astounding. 
   We still have birds on some public lands in Georgia, but they are hard to come-by and require dedicated hunters covering a lot of ground. You won't find large numbers of birds or easy shots, but they're out there for now. This a critical time for their future and the future of quail hunting.


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## flyfisher76544 (Feb 12, 2014)

OILMAN said:


> There were just as many predators in the 50s, 60s, and 70s...granted fur prices were higher. Predator control is a huge factor- take a look at its impact on di-lane; but quailty quail cover helps protect the birds and the broods.



Actually there are *more* predators now than there were in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Coyotes for one, have made a strong come-back. Like mentioned above, everything in those woods will eat a quail or their eggs. Cover does help......... a bit. But a fox or a bobcat will not have a problem going into some brush to snatch a bird. Skunks, opossums and raccoons will destroy nests. Add in the hawks, eagles, falcons and owls and other birds of prey and basically you have the trifecta.


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## BirdNut (Feb 12, 2014)

flyfisher76544 said:


> Actually there are *more* predators now than there were in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Coyotes for one, have made a strong come-back. Like mentioned above, everything in those woods will eat a quail or their eggs. Cover does help......... a bit. But a fox or a bobcat will not have a problem going into some brush to snatch a bird. Skunks, opossums and raccoons will destroy nests. Add in the hawks, eagles, falcons and owls and other birds of prey and basically you have the trifecta.



One thing I notice in the places outside of Georgia I hunt, for example Texas, is that at ground level to say 9-12" the habitat is open, giving the birds lanes to get their track shoes on a run from predators.  Here mostly, the brush/grasses choke down those lanes at ground level.  They also have overhead cover.  An example is buffle grass.  It is a bunch grass a lot like our broom straw, except the seed has food value, and it's narrower at the base and wider at the top...almost like an inverted pyramid and gives an open area underneath (plus shade) and some overhead screen from predators.  Of course, the birds use the mesquite and oak mottes as well.

The birds this year in Texas did not hold real well in bluestem and dove weed (croton), too thin a cover.  Some coveys would run and we would trail hundreds of yards.  Others flew to the nearest motte or rose hedge.  They were tough to get out of there.  You could tell these birds were used to the routine of getting pursued by predators even though we were the first group to hunt the ranch this year.  FYI we shot into 20 and 22 coveys in the 2 days.

One observation-some hawks were working at one point during the 2 days, and the coveys held tight then.  One sticks out in memory as getting up in a big ball of birds out of a rose hedge after holding real tight, then only flew 30 yards to the next rose hedge.  We left them alone as we had taken 3 on the rise.


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## Rulo (Feb 13, 2014)

Redlands WMA was full of quail in mid to late 80s. I had a German Shorthair Pointer that would point both quail and rabbits back then.
You didnt even need a dog. Rabbits were so plentiful you could just stomp around and shoot them without a dog.
Quail were abundant as were deer.

What a shame...
You can walk all day in mature Pines out there now and your lucky to kick up 2 rabbits.
Back then wasn't it still ONF? Its sad to see the lack of timber management......actually game management (lack of) going on. 
So much focus on the Red Cockaded Wood Pecker and none on the quail....rabbits are next.  Changing times I guess....


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