# Dog shooter!!!



## GA DAWG (Oct 23, 2008)

Former deputy found guilty: Man gets probation for killing coon dog 

By ASHLEY COX 
The Times 
CLEVELAND 
www.gainesvilletimes.com 

After nearly two hours of deliberation, a White County jury found a former Gwinnett County Sheriff's sergeant guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals in connection with the Christmas Eve 2004 shooting of a coon hound belonging to his mother's neighbor. 

Michael Mustachio maliciously and knowingly shot and killed the dog, named Kate, on his mother's Wauka Ridge Road property during a family gathering, the jury ruled Tuesday evening. Mustachio was sentenced to five years probation, 60 days of community service in an animal shelter and could be fined up to $15,000. 

He also must undergo anger management classes during his probationary period, Judge David Barrett ruled. 

White County Assistant District Attorney Kerry Banister, representing the state, had requested Mustachio receive five years in prison with a period served in a probation detention center, 30 days of community service and a fine. 

Dan Summer, Mustachio's defense attorney, insisted that his client didn't set out to do anything wrong the night the dog was shot. 

"He made a bad choice," Summer said. "I would ask you have mercy on this man." 

Summer asked that Barrett consider giving Mustachio a lighter sentence since it was his first offence, which Barrett denied. 

On the night in question, Stanley Barnes, along with friends Don Maney and Brent Thomas, had been out hunting with two female treeing Walkers when they heard shots fired 10 to 20 minutes later. 

Maney's dog, Lady, was barking at something in a tree nearby, but Barnes couldn't find Kate when he tried to use a tracking device attached to her collar. 

The dog was later found dead in the back of Mustachio's truck under a bunch of trash bags. Her tracking collar, as well as its antenna, had been cut off. 

During the trial, several members of Mustachio's family gave their accounts of what happened that Christmas Eve. 

Helen King, Mustachio's aunt, said the family was exchanging gifts when they heard growling, snarling and yelping. They assumed it was wild animals. 

"It was scary," she said, adding that the noise sounded like it was right on the front porch. 

Mustachio's father, Ted, a retired Gwinnett County firefighter, said his son fired shots in order to scare the animals away. 

"We weren't trying to kill anything," he said. 

When the three hunters wouldn't leave the Mustachios' property, Ted Mustachio suggested to his son that they might have hit a dog. 

After walking about 45 yards up the mountain from the house, Ted Mustachio said they saw a dog laying with its head on its paws. 

"My emotion was, 'the poor animal,'" he said. 

He picked the dog up and carried it to the house, where Mustachio cut off its collar and he cut off the antenna. 

When Banister asked why he cut the collar, he replied, "We were afraid." 

Officials with the White County Sheriff's Office were called to the Mustachios' property twice that night within a period of about 30 minutes. 

Officer Jarrett Fry, who came to the property both times, said there was nothing to indicate that Mustachio knew a dog had been shot. 

Both Ted and June Mustachio said they weren't aware an animal had been struck before Kate was found. They also didn't see any visible signs of trauma on the dog. 

Barnes had an autopsy performed on Kate at the University of Georgia's college of veterinary medicine. 

Elizabeth Howerth, head of the college's pathology department, said based on the report that the dog had been shot through the neck. The bullet broke several bones and caused the lungs to hemorrhage. 

She said other than the gunshot wound, there was no other sign that the dog had been maimed or tortured in any way. 

In her closing arguments, Banister said that Mustachio knowingly and maliciously killed the dog because he tried to cover it up, and that a dog doesn't have to be strung up to be maliciously killed. 

"It went looking for a coon and this is what it got in return," she said. 

In his closing statement, Summer told the jury that doing something maliciously means mean-spirited, done with a black heart. 

"This is not maliciousness, folks," he said, adding that there was no indication anyone knew the dog had been hit. 

Just before Mustachio's sentencing, Barrett said that when someone straps on a .40-caliber pistol, they carry with them a certain amount of responsibility. 

At this point, Barrett told Mustachio, "Law enforcement's not a career you need to be in."


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## thomas gose (Oct 23, 2008)

*coon dog shot.*

that is hard to hear! if i would have found one of my dogs in the back of somebodys truck those police officers would have only made one trip, and i probably would have had to leave with them. its hard to hear of a man loosing a dog to a car let alone having a dog give its all for you hunting and be shot by some jerk with no morals or respect. they should have give him jail time not probation.


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## Rich Kaminski (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm very surprised that we do not hear of a lot more dogs being shot. ALMOST every hunting club I have belonged to over the last 24 years here in Georgia - I always hear the club members tell the new members to shoot any dog they see on the property because they do not want the dogs running the deer.
I on the other hand have always had dogs and would never shoot one.


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## thomas gose (Oct 23, 2008)

it is illegal to shoot a dog in the state of Ga. and people need to stop assuming that just because they see an unfamiliar dog in the woods its running deer and more than likely if its a hound there is somebody out there looking for their coon dog from the night before. hope i dont get shot for being on someones property looking for a pup and a hunter mistake me for running deer.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 23, 2008)

The blanket statement , "it is illegal to shoot a dog in the state of GA" is not true.  

Heck, the blanket statement, it is illegal to shoot people in the state of Ga"  is not true either.

Under the right circumstances both acts would not only legal, they would be advisable and to commendable.


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## GA DAWG (Oct 23, 2008)

JustUs4All said:


> The blanket statement , "it is illegal to shoot a dog in the state of GA" is not true.
> 
> Heck, the blanket statement, it is illegal to shoot people in the state of Ga"  is not true either.
> 
> Under the right circumstances both acts would not only legal, they would be advisable and to commendable.


True BUT NOT IN THE CASE POSTED ABOVE IT AINT


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## thomas gose (Oct 23, 2008)

JustUs4All said:


> The blanket statement , "it is illegal to shoot a dog in the state of GA" is not true.
> 
> Heck, the blanket statement, it is illegal to shoot people in the state of Ga"  is not true either.
> 
> Under the right circumstances both acts would not only legal, they would be advisable and to commendable.



your last name mustachio? sorry for your loss!


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## carabrook (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that the court did whats right. There is no excuse for any of this and especially when you start removing collars knowing full well that someone is looking for their dog. Hope this guy is never paid to carry a gun again in his lifetime.


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## GA DAWG (Oct 23, 2008)

We now have a law on the books about removing collars...This all happened before it was passed so it probably didnt come into play..


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## daisy102998 (Oct 24, 2008)

What is y'all's opinion about dogs that kill calves and goats?  Do you have a right to shoot them to protect your property?  
Just wondering.


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## bowfish71 (Oct 24, 2008)

i think that they can be legally killed if they are a danger to you or your property


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Oct 24, 2008)

carabrook said:


> I'm glad to hear that the court did whats right. There is no excuse for any of this and especially when you start removing collars knowing full well that someone is looking for their dog. Hope this guy is never paid to carry a gun again in his lifetime.



X2
Sad story


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## pbyles (Oct 24, 2008)

HERE WE GO AGAIN.....

Wanna get my piece in on this one since I didnt get the chance to on the last one....(i opt'ed out early, then it was too late)

THERE ARE LAWS/provisions to the law regarding dogs, guns, and hunting.....

DNR knows it.....it is a very GRAY area.....

I've had issues with coon dogs, deer dogs, rabbit dogs.....

Deer hunting with dogs is NOT ILLEGAL....Clemson (i believe) done a study about coon dogs hurting the deer hunting....THEY FOUND THAT DOGS DID NOT INTERRUPT DEER....its obvious that they would run if they were hunting deer, but I have had coon dogs run right past a deer.....HECK I GOT ONE NOW that will run FROM a DEER....(thank u tri tronics).....but the deer always return...

PKC does a lot of work helping hunters that have lost their hounds get justice.....and they do get justice in most cases....

just like the case mentioned above.....if it was the right thing to do that man wouldnt have been found guilty....(and he was a law enforcement officer....obviously one of the ones that "thought he knew the law")......

I hunt every thing and every way I possibly can....

I've heard all the sayings.....

"dog hunting is murder", "dog hunting aint hunting", etc....

"still hunters sit in a tree and let the deer come to them unsuspecting", "shooting a deer that doesnt even know you are there isnt fair".....

PEOPLE....hunting is hunting....I do it for food and sport-

Still hunting is work, considering you plant, tend, sit, drive, etc.....

Dog hunting is work, you feed dogs, train dogs, drive, plant, tend, Etc...

Pay a lease either way-

ANYBODY that has never waited heart thumping out of your head, in the wind trying to figure out how close the dogs are and judge how close they are on the deer, which side of you the deer is going to jump out, how far he will be from you, only to have it jump out in front of you, you have to judge what it is, if you can shoot, aim, shoot, all in the time it takes a deer running wide open to cross a 10-20' clearing of the stand......thats all IF you dont have to run 50 yards down the path to get in a better position....so add being out of breath to all of the above......_and to add to that...you hear the biggest deer you ever heard coming thru the woods strait to you...you wait, and wait, there aint no dogs on it, he's slipping....you aim...and -----ITS A DANG ARMADILLO!_

then be out ALL NIGHT looking for your hard headed dogs...dogs that have been waiting all year just like you to get out of that pen and do what they LOVE-

TELL ME THATS NOT WORK....u aint been there!!!

I can say too....it sure is a pain to get up early, drive to a stand, walk thru the woods, climb a tree, try to stay awake, try not to freeze.....to wait...and wait...and wait....for hours or days on end...to maybe see a deer or maybe see a hundred....then not to get a good shot, or miss, or have him run off and you have to walk down track, drag, etc....its a job too....

THEY ARE HOWEVER BOTH HUNTING.....they are both a sport and hopefully they are both for food (if not u then somebody).....

I can understand having to fight PETA....I can understand having to fight TREE HUGGERS....I can even understand having to fight with IDGITS that dont know better....

BUT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND....having to fight with my very own fellow hunters.....

I have had issues with DNR....(a land owner that leased his land to HIGH PAYING northerner for still hunting)....he caught my coon dog that had been out all night.....
This was his second incident- (first time he shot the dog and threw it in a pond, dog was found by the tracking collar)....

He put my dog in his kennel...took her collars off and took them home with him...couldnt figure out how to turn them off...._(my coon dog collars say "COON DOG")_

I found him and my dog, and I called DNR...he had already called them but nobody informed or even tried to contact me...they were going to say that they couldnt find me and put my dog down after so many days...

I went over that officers head, got my dog, my collars and needless to say have not had another problem with that man....

REGARDLESS of what my dog runs, i invest a lot of time, money, and love into all of them....AND NOBODY will get away with doing them harm....fellow hunter or not...

_*it makes me sick to know that my grand kids will probably not be able to hunt in this state, b/c we cant stick together long enough to keep our rightsB]*_**


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## JuliaH (Oct 24, 2008)

I don't hunt at all, except for hunt testing with my trusty little pop gun (starter pistol...lol) but what you have said makes a lot of sense!! But, I am not a tree hugger either...lol. I am simply not good with firearms and might shoot my foot off, or something equally as dumb, so I leave that to folks better than me 

It's a "can't see the forest for the trees" problem, and in this country we are giving up rights more than we know. I think it is a crying shame that a man shot that dog. I am glad he got punished, but folks... the most important sentence in this entire interesting long post is the LAST SENTENCE!






pbyles said:


> HERE WE GO AGAIN.....
> 
> Wanna get my piece in on this one since I didnt get the chance to on the last one....(i opt'ed out early, then it was too late)
> 
> ...


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## Thajonesboyz (Oct 24, 2008)

*funny thing*

one of my employees called in late this mourning. Had to tend to some dead goats. seems another Dog got into his goat pen and killed a nanny and 1 of her babies, the other baby was not dead. the dog or Dogs held them around the neck till death and just left them where they lay, didn't eat any of it. I own hunting dogs, and yard dogs.  Most of us has morals, we try to raise our children with morals and good ethics. some don't. Most of us has been on the farm or in the woods and seen the old crossed colly,lab,bulldog,spaniel looking mut, that chaces the cows, growls at you when you get to close, looks at you as if to chalenge you kind of mut. you know the house that owns it. go nock on the door and ask them to try to contain it just to get a " go shuv it". Most of us try to do the right thing, but unfortunately  the "1 bad apple in the basket so throw them all out" phrase has taken effect on our country. No I don't think the guy should have shot the hound. but there are instances where it is necessary, and i don't need a LAWYER trying to make it all bad. What About stray cats. they are everywhere! they reproduce more than Rats.


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## pbyles (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree about the vicious ones that chase the livestock....Heaven help the dog that chases my horses...

I do use discrestion (sp) before I point and shoot....also like to use rat/bird shot first before doing real damage....it usually solves the problem....

Would like to take them all to the pound....let them deal with it...unfortunately that is not usually the case....

I would not put out anything for them to eat that would kill them....(my hunting dog got into antifreeze one night).....

But if i can catch them and they are not mean....just chasin my livestock I would do the best I could with them.....

aint never had the heart to look a dog in the eye and shoot it...unless it was wild and a threat to me or my kids or my animals-

cats are the same....would usually catch them in a live trap....give them to farmers...they like them in their barns....or take them WAY off and drop them, or take them to pound...


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## Luke0927 (Oct 24, 2008)

I have dogs and love dogs i do not feel this was a justified killing guy got what he deserved.  if a wild dog is on the property ( you can tell a wild dog from a pet) its the same as a coyote it should be shot or even an aggressive pet.


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## GA DAWG (Oct 24, 2008)

Stray killers and the coonhound listed above have nothing to do with each other..


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## Twenty five ought six (Oct 24, 2008)

No one has pointed out the obvious, but not only will this gentleman never work in law enforcement again, he will never be able to legally possess a firearm again.

Pretty strong medicine if you ask me for the pleasure of shooting a dog to prove a point.


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## sbrown (Oct 26, 2008)

GA DAWG said:


> Stray killers and the coonhound listed above have nothing to do with each other..



Good point. I wouldn't want someone to shoot any of my dogs but I also try and respect other peoples property,personal or hunting. I've had hunts ruined where house dogs came thru trailing a deer before that had just passed under me. I never thought of shooting the dogs, these I could tell were house pets and to well fed and a few hundred more yards would likely learn what it meant to be a good in shape deer hound,so I let them be, no real harm done to me. Some people always see things there way though and there is no reasoning with them. I remember one time a guys coonhound shows up at my house, bad shape, looks like a possible broke leg, another damaged leg, badly undernourished and had severe mange. He had a collar on so I called the guy like 3 times over the next week to come get his dog, I didn't want my dogs catching anything plus he was laying on my porch all the time not to mention I thought he needed medical attention. Turns out the guy lived less than 2 miles from me and was just to lazy to come get his dog. So that really made me mad, I came in and grabbed a paintball gun from the kid next door and tried to run the dog off and then left for town. After I left the guy turns up and sees the paint on his dog and chews this little kid out. Now I am really  I see him at the farmers house across the road and off I go, the old farmer knows me and has a big smile on his face in anticipation of what he hopes he will get to see I guess as I pull up  I tore into him and he told me I just did't understand how it was with hunting dogs and all kinds of excuses, I asked him did he not see my pen full of beagles, and when somebody calls me to come get my dogs I did. Well, next thing I know the cops show up at my house and ask me what happen, saying that I should't have shot the dog with the paintball gun, that he could have said that is dog was worth $1000 if he wanted to or whatever amount and I might have been liable. 
I said fine, my chickens that he was chasing and causing harm to in my pasture and yard are my PRIZE CHICKENS and they are worth $500 each to me.  That was the end of it. 
Sorry for the long post, but I agree we need to work together as hunters and just use some common sense .


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## Andrew Herren (Oct 26, 2008)

I had a 10 minute stand off with a family pet (sheppard x) yesterday afternoon while hunting. He was with 3 beagles and a bloodhound chasing deer on my lease. I usually don't mind because i figure they keep the deer stirred up. When they got about 50 ft. from me I stood up and fussed at them to go home. Obviously the sheppard was the body guard and decided he was going to lunge,growl and try to scare me off. I had my rifle pointed at him for quite awhile and he finally decided to leave. I have be bitten by "family pets" 3 times before, and an aggressive dog is a nightmare. I lost one of the best dogs I ever had to lease holders next to my property because it chased deer, and it really hurt my feelings. I now keep my dogs contained, especially during deer season.


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## 1222DANO (Oct 26, 2008)

Good Forum. I've Meet The Guy That Owned This Dog That Got Killed And His Female Lady Was Breed A Couple Of Times And She Wouldn't Have But One Or Two Pups So This Was A Very Important Dog To Him He Ended Up Having To Pay Another Stud Fee And Lady Ended Up Having Just One Pup. All Those Guys Are Some Good People I'm Pretty Sure The Officer Went Out Of His Way To Kill His Dog. I'm Glad He Got What Was Coming To Him.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Oct 26, 2008)

All I Have To Say Is I Have A Great Dane And She Is My Life. I Love Her Dearly. I Cant Imagine What Would Happen If Someone Shot Her. However She Doesnt Kill Livestock Or Mess With People. She Loves All Animals And All People. I Consider Her My 4 Legged Baby Child.


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## Rich Kaminski (Oct 26, 2008)

*Wow it seems that everyone who posted made a good*

point (from their own perspective).
I know that to hunt legally with dogs you must have 500 or a thousand contiguous acres and that you must keep the dogs on your own property; otherwise you are trespassing and poaching.
So if your club has a rule or an insufficient quantity of land that would preclude you from using dogs to hunt, then am I correct in assuming that if a dog is found on the property that the dog does not belong to anyone in that hunting club? And if hunters are following that dog, then they are trespassing and violating the law (correct?).
I mean thats what the law shoulod be intrepreted as, right?
I still would never shoot mans best friend, but I sure would kick the snot out of anyone poaching on my club and send them packing without their guns and clothes.


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## Chase Simmemon (Oct 26, 2008)

Rich Kaminski said:


> point (from their own perspective).
> I know that to hunt legally with dogs you must have 500 or a thousand contiguous acres and that you must keep the dogs on your own property; otherwise you are trespassing and poaching.
> So if your club has a rule or an insufficient quantity of land that would preclude you from using dogs to hunt, then am I correct in assuming that if a dog is found on the property that the dog does not belong to anyone in that hunting club? And if hunters are following that dog, then they are trespassing and violating the law (correct?).
> I mean thats what the law shoulod be intrepreted as, right?
> I still would never shoot mans best friend, but I sure would kick the snot out of anyone poaching on my club and send them packing without their guns and clothes.



I don't know if you are talking about deer hunting with dogs or hunting with dogs in general, but I do know you don't have to have 500-1000 acres to coon hunt with dogs. Now that might be true with deer, but not with coons. Dogs, coons, deer, hogs, or whatever you hunting for with dogs can't read posted or property signs. The state of Georgia has a right to retrieve law, stating that we as dog hunters have a right to get our dogs if they happen to cross property lines. Now we are supposed to talk to the land owner and ask for premission first and if not granted than we call the local game warden and have them come out and explain that we have a right to get our dogs. We do not have the right however to shoot game on another persons property, that would be poaching and trespassing, just the right to go directly in and get the dogs and directly out.


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## GA DAWG (Oct 26, 2008)

Rich Kaminski said:


> point (from their own perspective).
> I know that to hunt legally with dogs you must have 500 or a thousand contiguous acres


Thats incorrect.. I do however try and turn loose on a big enough piece of property to keep my dogs contained..Also chase..We do not have a right to retrieve law here in GA.


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## Chase Simmemon (Oct 26, 2008)

GA DAWG said:


> Thats incorrect.. I do however try and turn loose on a big enough piece of property to keep my dogs contained..Also chase..We do not have a right to retrieve law here in GA.


 
It might not be a true "right to retrieve law," but here is what the law does state, including the law of shooting a dog with a collar. The parts in red is deleted now and it is unlawful for anyone, including law officers to kill dogs with collars.
06 LC 25 4315

House Bill 1424
By: Representatives Smith of the 168th, Williams of the 165th, Hatfield of the 177th, Sims of the 169th, Roberts of the 154th, and others 
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
To amend Chapter 3 of Title 27 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to wildlife generally, so as to change certain provisions relating to hunting with dogs generally; to change certain provisions relating to killing of dogs running deer; to repeal conflicting laws; and for other purposes.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF GEORGIA:
SECTION 1.Chapter 3 of Title 27 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to wildlife generally, is amended in Code Section 27-3-16, relating to hunting with dogs generally, by adding a new subsection to read as follows:"(f) The mere roaming or escape of or pursuit or trailing of game by any dog used for hunting onto a tract of real property for which the hunter does not have permission to hunt shall not constitute a violation of any provision of this title, any rule or regulation adopted pursuant to this title, or any condition of any permit issued under this title by the hunter or organization of which such hunter is a member; provided, however, that no hunter shall enter upon such other tract to retrieve or pursue such dog without first obtaining the permission of the owner or lessee of such tract. Nothing in this subsection shall affect the applicability, if any, of Code Section 27-3-1 or any provision of Article 2 of Chapter 7 of Title 16 to any person."
SECTION 2.Said chapter is further amended by striking Code Section 27-3-49, relating to killing of dogs running deer, and inserting in lieu thereof the following:"27-3-49.(a) It shall be the duty of every conservation ranger to kill any dog pursuing or killing any deer in any locality other than that prescribed by law or rules and regulations permitting such hunting, and no action for damages shall be maintained against the person for such killing.(b)(a) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a conservation ranger, sheriff, or deputy sheriff to kill a dog wearing a collar, which dog is or has been pursuing or killing a deer game.(c)(b) It shall not be unlawful for any person to kill a dog which does not have a collar and which is pursuing or killing deer game in any locality other than that prescribed by law or rules and regulations permitting such hunting, and no action for damages shall be maintained against the person for such killing.(c) This Code section shall not affect the applicability, if any, of Code Section 4-8-4 or 4-8-5."
SECTION 3.All laws and parts of laws in conflict with this Act are repealed.

Now from what this says, we have to get premission first. It does not however say what to do in case we do not get premission, but I can tell you, I have ran into this before, just call the local game warden and have them come out and they will let you go get your hound.


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## Chase Simmemon (Oct 26, 2008)

I edited my last post, the parts in red that says that a conservation ranger, sheriff, or deputy sheriff can shoot a dog with a collar is marked out on the page with the law, it did not cross it out when I copied and pasted on here. Here is the link so you can check it out on the actually web page:
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/versions/hb1424_LC_25_4315_a_2.htm


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## olcowman (Nov 3, 2008)

pbyles said:


> or take them WAY off and drop them,



Do us all favor and cut that out. I live _way off _and have to contend with your trash, discarded animals, and out of control kids that alway manage to somehow find their way _"way off."_

What the heck do you think happens when you haul them off and throw them out? Maybe, if their lucky they will manage to find a nearby rural residence with a little compassion who will either put them out of their misery or haul them to a shelter facility. Most of them starve to death I would imagine (that don't happen real quick) or perhaps end up ripped apart and eaten by a predator, which would be better than starvation I reckon.

You got horses of your own? I sure hope you got somebody around to help you care for them properly!


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## pbyles (Nov 3, 2008)

olcowman said:


> Do us all favor and cut that out. I live _way off _and have to contend with your trash, discarded animals, and out of control kids that alway manage to somehow find their way _"way off."_
> 
> What the heck do you think happens when you haul them off and throw them out? Maybe, if their lucky they will manage to find a nearby rural residence with a little compassion who will either put them out of their misery or haul them to a shelter facility. Most of them starve to death I would imagine (that don't happen real quick) or perhaps end up ripped apart and eaten by a predator, which would be better than starvation I reckon.
> 
> You got horses of your own? I sure hope you got somebody around to help you care for them properly!



For starters...if you're gonna quote something I say, quote it all and quote it correctly-

I said:
CATS are the same....would usually catch them in a live trap....give them to farmers...they like them in their barns....or take them WAY off and drop them, or take them to pound... 

a feral cat is MUCH different from a abandoned dog-
they can care for and feed themselves a lot better than a dog, and a cat turns wild much quicker than a dog-

I also said that I would give them away or take them to the pound if that didnt work I would haul them off....

NOT SURE how much experience you have with wild cats...but I have never seen a "rural residence" take in a wild cat- I have never seen a wild cat that you could get your hands on to take in-

Me taking a wild cat to another location and dropping him off (wooded area, not YOUR residence or anybody elses) gives him at least a chance to survive on his own-  me filling his butt with buckshot pretty much ends it there-

Every animal has his place on this earth- that wild cat catches rats, snakes, birds...then something catches it...and the world goes round..thats the way life is...

YES...it might probably sound better for me to say...I take them all to the pound...or to my vet to be euthanized....

BUT..facts are....the pounds here charge $20+ to "drop off" an abandoned animal...vet charges $50+ euthanize an animal....
(euthanasia solution is not cheap)

I DONT NEED HELP TAKING CARE OF MY HORSES/DOGS b/c I have the common sense not to spend my $ on animals that are wild/abandoned already and I spend it on my own animals so that they are not in the same shape!

I have taken in over 40+ dogs that were abandoned or just not wanted and fed them and found them homes so I have compassion for strays.....

I also dont plan on driving to Tenn to place/remove an animal...so you shouldnt worry-


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## olcowman (Nov 3, 2008)

pbyles said:


> For starters...if you're gonna quote something I say, quote it all and quote it correctly-
> 
> I said:
> CATS are the same....would usually catch them in a live trap....give them to farmers...they like them in their barns....or take them WAY off and drop them, or take them to pound...
> ...




Well I live in Ga mostly because of work and actually reside in an even more rural setting than my home in ETenn. If you truly believe your statement concerning feral cats...well you need to educate yourself a little bit on some issues concerning dietary needs of felines, the environmental impact of exotic species, ecosystems population controls their fragile status, etc. What you wrote is inane, illogical and has no foundation in factual info or data. If you have evidence otherwise, please post and I will gladly acknowledge my error. But that aint going to happen.

I personally have a sore spot against this type of 'discarding of domestic animals' and do not have time to get into it here. If by chance I do happen to catch someone in the act, I'll try to explain it then. Please don't promote this sort of thing as a legitimate way to dispose of these creatures.

If you think I take in strays or don't eat red meat, or something like that...wrong again. If you can't find a place you can afford, or a free shelter, or some aquantaince that might need a companion....I don't give rat's behind if you squoosh it with a big rock, blow it up with dynamite, put it in a sack and throw it in the river, light em on fire, feed em to your hogs, even give it to Mike Vick when heget's out of jail . All of which will be a better and more humane death than slowly starving to death in the woods.


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## pbyles (Nov 3, 2008)

olcowman said:


> If you can't find a place you can afford, or a free shelter, or some aquantaince that might need a companion....*I don't give rat's behind if you squoosh it with a big rock, blow it up with dynamite, put it in a sack and throw it in the river, light em on fire, feed em to your hogs, even give it to Mike Vick when heget's out of jail . *All of which will be a better and more humane death than slowly starving to death in the woods.




really...who sounds inane now?

pm me your info...and I will send them to you....sounds like you have it under control-


"All of which will be a better and more humane death than slowly starving to death in the woods"
a feral animal that cant fend for itself is low on the food chain...and will get taken care of by mother nature...


I dont hold myself up to be the higher power that should "set it on fire, or throw it in the river, etc."...I will let mother nature decide-


I'm done with this post...b4 I say something that gets me in trouble-


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## olcowman (Nov 3, 2008)

pbyles said:


> really...who sounds inane now?
> 
> pm me your info...and I will send them to you....sounds like you have it under control-
> 
> ...




Bless your heart..let mother nature take care if? Isn't  there some kind of law on the books to discourage this sort of thing. If common sense, logic and scientific data doesn't work, maybe fines and the threat of jail will do the trick. Probably considered an act of animal cruelty or something?

I would presume that most everyone on this forum would feel to some degree as I do, whether a sportsman or just someone who spends time in the outdoors. Regardless of your 'notions' of self preservation and nature's bounty, we don't want your discarded pets out here. I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night to whimpering, freezing, starving pups on my doorstep. I don't want my family to stumble onto anymore cardboard boxes at the river with dead and dying kittens,  along with maggots and feces covering them all. 

Mother nature aint doing to good out here 'on her own.' I'll pm you my info if you promise to call me when you head my way with your lastest gift to nature where we can be sure and not miss each other. I'll give you some reasons why you might ought to think twice about continuing this sort of behaviour. 

I aint afraid of anything I might say regarding this sort of thing, as I have nothing to be ashamed of. If I was you, I wouldn't tell too many folks about that "mother nature takes care" fantasy you got going on. And It aint something you'd want to be seen doing in the daylight either!


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## pbyles (Nov 3, 2008)

> Sorry about the rant, but this stuff really riles me. What sort of twisted, warped, feeble minded little a-hole does it take to shoot, stab and attempt to drag to death a defenseless old dog? Whatever he is, he wouldn't get no second chances in my neck of the woods.



quoted from a previous post of yours-



> I don't give rat's behind if you squoosh it with a big rock, blow it up with dynamite, put it in a sack and throw it in the river, light em on fire, feed em to your hogs, even give it to Mike Vick when heget's out of jail . All of which will be a better and more humane death than slowly starving to death in the woods.



your post to me-

which side of the fence are you on?

BTW....you keep bashing me for bringing "MY" strays your way....

NEVER in any of my posts did I say they were mine....
(i refer to dogs/cats that come to my property)

It is no more against the law for me to acknowledge them that it is for me to not acknowledge them-

It is NOT my responsibility to take up, in, or care of someone elses animal-

I know I said in my last post that I was done....
I'm gonna recant that statement, and add this one-

Now I really am done-

I have nothing more to say to you "oldcow"


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## olcowman (Nov 3, 2008)

Good because they don't make a lick of sense, you aint on some kind of medication are you? That last one lost me? I am on the same side of the fence I started, and simply stated that dropping/hauling it off to a rural area was a terrible thing to do to an animal and a problem for a lot of rural residents.

You started getting off on "mother nature knows best" and your a "higher power" and so forth. I don't know about the law acknowledgeing  them and you and whoever. But I can tell you staright up "hauling stuff WAY OFF" as you put is an option that needs to be removed from your list of remedies for feral cats or stray dogs or whatever else that aint "acknowledged" to be  your's but you are compelled to take it upon yourself and drive it somewhere else.

I didn't intend to start a p'g contest but when I read it I jump in and pointed it out it's an ongoing problem in many places and the animals usually suffer terrible death. I should have jumped off when you came back with the "feral cat's dropped off - fending for themselves" rhetoric, that made it pretty clear this wasn't being pursued on a level field.


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## Muddywater (Nov 6, 2008)

eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth......shoot the officer......


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## SC Hunter (Nov 6, 2008)

I know one thing i have seen some wild cats before that i know for a fact a coyote wouldn't want any part of i saw my bulldog, the same one that killed a coyote in my front yard one night, get his butt beat by a feral cat that wasn't all to big i believe that a feral cat is more than willing to take care of itself in the wild


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## olcowman (Nov 9, 2008)

SC Hunter said:


> I know one thing i have seen some wild cats before that i know for a fact a coyote wouldn't want any part of i saw my bulldog, the same one that killed a coyote in my front yard one night, get his butt beat by a feral cat that wasn't all to big i believe that a feral cat is more than willing to take care of itself in the wild



That cat didn't happen to be 'black' did it? Your bulldog done went soft on you or he's come out of the closet and you just haven't figured it out? I aint gonna feed no catch/bull dog that'll take a whippin' from a house cat, it just ain't natural. Maybe you should've left the bulldog in the woods and brought that 'bad to the bone' cat home to guard your place or hunt for you  or whatever that bulldog is supposed to be doing. You need to get his dna out of the gene pool anyhow.

I would bet that 99.9% of cats that are just tossed out by these types of sorry individuals, either die of starvation or end up being preyed upon by coyotes, hawks, feral hogs, bears, or in your bulldog's case, a possible black panther? I can't see a house cat converting into a top tier predator or succesful scavenger overnight. We are not talking feral hogs here that can digest just about anything from animal flesh to dirt, we are talking little cute kitty cats in the wild & wooly woods.


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## larpyn (Nov 9, 2008)

moral of the story. shoot a dog lose your job.
let your dog trespass and it might get shot.
a lose lose situation


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## Bowyer29 (Nov 10, 2008)

thomas gose said:


> it is illegal to shoot a dog in the state of Ga. and people need to stop assuming that just because they see an unfamiliar dog in the woods its running deer and more than likely if its a hound there is somebody out there looking for their coon dog from the night before. hope i dont get shot for being on someones property looking for a pup and a hunter mistake me for running deer.



Do not trespass, you won't have to worry.


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## Chase Simmemon (Nov 10, 2008)

Bowyer29 said:


> Do not trespass, you won't have to worry.



Do you think dogs, coons, rabbits, deer, or whatever the dogs are being used to hunt can read signs? I coon hunt with dogs and I may turn loose on my property or property I have premission to hunt on, and the coon may decide to run a mile or so and might just end up on your property or someone elses. I try to tell the coon and dog not to go over that boundry line but they don't listen to well. I try my best to keep my dogs in areas I have premission to hunt on, but sometimes it doesn't always work. Moral of the story is don't shoot dogs, especially with collars. If the dog has a collar on it, especially a tracking collar, the owner shouldn't be far behind looking for their dog.


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## Ol' Red (Nov 10, 2008)

Chase Simmemon said:


> Do you think dogs, coons, rabbits, deer, or whatever the dogs are being used to hunt can read signs? I coon hunt with dogs and I may turn loose on my property or property I have premission to hunt on, and the coon may decide to run a mile or so and might just end up on your property or someone elses. I try to tell the coon and dog not to go over that boundry line but they don't listen to well. I try my best to keep my dogs in areas I have premission to hunt on, but sometimes it doesn't always work. Moral of the story is don't shoot dogs, especially with collars. If the dog has a collar on it, especially a tracking collar, the owner shouldn't be far behind looking for their dog.



Pretty poor rationale but I'm pumped!!!!  Another dog shooting thread.  Let's get to it......

Red


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## Chase Simmemon (Nov 10, 2008)

Ol' Red said:


> Pretty poor rationale but I'm pumped!!!!  Another dog shooting thread.  Let's get to it......
> 
> Red



Do you have any hounds?


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## Lead Poison (Nov 10, 2008)

Chase Simmemon said:


> Do you think dogs,  used to hunt can read signs? I coon hunt with dogs and I may turn loose on my property or property I have premission to hunt on, and the coon may decide to run a mile or so and might just end up on your property or someone elses.



No offense, but this is exactly why I'm so opposed to dog hunting. 

If people want to dog hunt make them put fences around their property to keep their dogs on the property and off of someone elses.


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## Chase Simmemon (Nov 10, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> No offense, but this is exactly why I'm so opposed to dog hunting.
> 
> If people want to dog hunt make them put fences around their property to keep their dogs on the property and off of someone elses.



What would you say if I said I think deer hunters ought to put up high fences around their property? Its the same concept. We have a rights to hunt too, and to run our dogs and it is just not simply feasible to "fence in" our area to hunt. I do not want my dog to go on others property, but it happens. I don't know what most of yall have against hounds, but I can tell you that they don't scare away deer, there has been studies on it, look them up, and I can not tell you the number of times that my dogs have treed and there have been deer bedding no more than 50 yards from the tree. Deer have home ranges, they may temporary leave the area but they return. Any of you that think deer are ran off by dogs have probably never been hunting with dogs. When a deer is being chased by a dog, do you know what it does? The majority of the time the deer will run a wide circle, much like how a rabbit will do. The deer will get far enough ahead of the dogs to where it can rest than take back of and then get far enough ahead and rest again. And as far as livestock goes, most hounds do not harass livestock, most of the time coyotes are the ones to blame, not dogs, and any sensible hunter will break a dog of harassing livestock as soon as it occurs. For you that don't hunt with hounds do not understand the amount of time, money, and training that goes into these hounds. Do you really think we want them to go onto someone elses property to run into the possiablity of getting shot? When the tailgate drops and the dogs are unleashed we no longer have control where the dogs are going to go. We can point them in the right direction, but that doesn't always work, it all depends on how far and which direction the game they are chasing goes.


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## Lead Poison (Nov 10, 2008)

Chase Simmemon said:


> What would you say if I said I think deer hunters ought to put up high fences around their property? Its the same concept.



Absolutely not, it's NOT the same thing.

You can't be serious. 

I have a very good reason wanting you to fence your property...to keep YOUR dog on your property and off of mine!

I don't go onto your property! However, you and your dog come onto mine. Therefore, you need a fence, not me. 

Dude, hunt with your dog all you want. But ensure you stay off my property and do not ruin my hunting time in the woods. That's all I'm saying.


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## GA DAWG (Nov 11, 2008)

What,you hunt deer at night or something?


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