# Hog Doggers make front page of NY Times



## JAGER (Jun 25, 2008)

Effective hog hunting methods will continue to get more press as more states are pulling out the stops to cull hog populations. The rising need for avid hog hunters has finally made the pages of the New York Times.

Here is the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/sports/othersports/21hogs.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
The story is written by MICHAEL BRICK along with a nine picture slide show and a 2:45 video.

We have an abundance of talented dogs and men (women too) on this forum. I think many of our Georgia kennels could have better represented the sport and the story. 



Rich Kaminski said:


> We need a Hog Hunting TV show here in Georgia. Some place where all you hog men can display your talents, skills, tenacity, courage and hunting dogs. This would be a great thing for the state of Georgia.





Blue Iron said:


> Ol' hawg dawg on here is working on that right now...Got lots a great footage and is planning to put out a DVD by the first of next year.  The videos will be 100% fair chase hog dog action.



I just wanted to share the NY Times article and maybe plant a seed. Now is a good time for Georgia kennels to share their talents and skills with the rest of the Nation. The media and the public are both hungry for this information. I think Hawg Dawg is heading in the right direction. 

---JAGER


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## firefighterusa (Jun 25, 2008)

good article.


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## hawg dawg (Jun 25, 2008)

PM sent !! to jag


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## JAGER (Jun 27, 2008)

What if this NY Times front page article was the only exposure a metropolitan non-hunter received about doggin' or even hog hunting this year? Did they receive a favorable message?

Do you feel the sport was represented in a positive way? Are there any negative consequences from having more articles like this released to the media by Georgia doggers?

I have no ulterior motives for posting this thread. I just think there needs to be more articles like this in the media. Why not?

---JAGER


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## Apex Predator (Jun 27, 2008)

JAGER,

I'm a hard core hunter!  I do lot's of hog hunting from the ground with my traditional bows.  Most of the dog hunting I've seen for hogs is dis-tasteful to me.  How do you think the general public sees it?  Not in a favorable light, I would think.  I'm not against it, because I think it's very effective and necessary in many areas.  I just choose to do it my way.  I don't think this going public, in a broad sense, is going to help hog doggers, or hunting in general.  I think if guys want to keep their doggin past time, they need to keep it kinda quiet.  Just my opinion, since you asked for it.

Marty


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## hogdawg (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm not gonna get carried away, but I know what doggin' used to be, and I know what it could turn into, and I don't like it one bit.  I saw a video on youtube today that made me want to throw up.  Give a man a pit bull and he's ready to go huntin'.  I don't know if it's publicity or just the times changin'(probably more publicity), but hey, I guess it is the way it is.  I don't think there's anything you can do about it.  There's always gonna be wannabes out there in any sport.  

To answer your question, I think for the most part the video was positive, however, I don't think huntin' hogs with dogs is something that needs to be all over the media.  just MHO


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## pnome (Jun 27, 2008)

I thought it was surprisingly positive.  Especially for an article about hunting in the New York Times.


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## Rich Kaminski (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah, I bet the NY Times doesn't realize that the dogs and dog hunters never know what size hog they are going to encounter each time they venture out, or how dangerous it could be for the dogs (which is why the owners vest their dogs up and put large thick leather no-cut collars on the dogs).
I think the NY Times realizes that hogs can put farmers out of business and therefore need to be controlled.
And with pit bulls and wild boar running around, I doubt that the Peta heads will ever show up to protest, especially at night when most hogs are hunted and with all the snakes looking for a meal in the evenings.
What do you think?


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## JAGER (Jun 27, 2008)

I think the press (in the past) has given doggin' a steady diet of negativity. The only time you read about dog hunting in the National media was when PETA was behind it. The general public only heard one side of the story.



Apex Predator said:


> I'm not against (doggin'), because I think it's very effective and necessary in many areas... I don't think going public, in a broad sense, is going to help hog doggers, or hunting in general. I think if guys want to keep their doggin' past time, they need to keep it kinda quiet.



Herein lies the question. Do you just keep quiet about being effective and necessary? Or do you step forward to educate the public about the important contribution your sport provides?

The media is already reporting rising hog population statistics and crop damage numbers from across the United States. Every week, there are more and more articles appearing in mainstream media. The public is already being informed about the "problem". 

When will the public become informed about the solution. Whether you choose hog doggin' or aerial gunning with a helicopter, every effective hog control method will be viewed as unpleasant and distasteful to the public. Especially if they only hear one side of the story. I believe the public needs to be educated as to why these methods are necessary. I also think NOW is the perfect time because the National media is finally on our side and hungry for information.

Do you take advantage of this National media window of opportunity to raise awareness for your sport and educate the public? Or do you quietly enjoy what you have?

---JAGER


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## Public Land Prowler (Jun 27, 2008)

For some reason hog doggers,and I'll go as far as to say deer doggers are seen by the public as drunk,unlawful,rowdy,dis-respectful rednecks.A few bad apples will spoil the whole bunch,but the majority of them are just like you and me except they are adrenaline junkies..lol

I think it is time that image is turned around.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 28, 2008)

I think the negative attention hunting received in general would far out weigh the positives for doggin folks.  I'll step out on a limb here and say that most hunters nation wide would not view this in a positive light.  I don't think going mainstream in the press would help your cause.


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## ejs1980 (Jun 28, 2008)

I think the article was well written. Definetly since it was written by media that is usually against hunting in general. The video while not exciting was about as G rated as it can get without being a cartoon and definately leaves a better picture in your mind about hog doggin. Alot better than you usually see on u-tube.  I'm not sure who shot the video a hunter or a photographer for the times. If it was a photographer I'd like to see a picture of him at the end of the day.  Apex I am pretty new to hog doggin and still love to stalk with my bow. While it's not for everyone it is a blast and a very effective means of hog control. The damage on that golf course is mild in comparison to alot of fields I've seen but i guess those that make the laws care a little more about hogs ruining their fareway than several acres of peanuts or corn. I think if hog doggin goes mainstream it should be sensored a little. Bad things happen and you wouldn't want to see alot of videos out there of guys trying to blood trail a badly hit hog to finally get a few more arrows in him to finish it off. The dogs don't get hurt as often as people think and the adrenaline junkies aren't running to get to the bay because they are in a hurry to kill something. The just know that the longer it takes them to get there the more likely it is something bad will happen.


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## ejs1980 (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh yeah Jager thanks for the link. What you do and what we do are both controversial to alot of people. Just imagine how your style of hunting could be viewed if just a few bad apples got ahold of the equipment.


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## SELFBOW (Jun 28, 2008)

ejs1980 said:


> Oh yeah Jager thanks for the link. What you do and what we do are both controversial to alot of people. Just imagine how your style of hunting could be viewed if just a few bad apples got ahold of the equipment.



My thought exactly. I consider thermal imaging not Hunting or sporting, its simply nothing more than an exterminator for bigger game. You just have to use a gun for the end result instead of a chemical.

I don't understand why it is even advertised as hunting or on a hunting forum. Critter management companies (aka exterminators) fit this need more than the hunting community.


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## Public Land Prowler (Jun 28, 2008)

ejs1980 said:


> The dogs don't get hurt as often as people think and the adrenaline junkies aren't running to get to the bay because they are in a hurry to kill something. The just know that the longer it takes them to get there the more likely it is something bad will happen.


Just to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.My point is that hog doggers are a different breed and they take it to another level that I really don't care for.They lay hands on a wild hog and tie him up.That is a rush that they get..It's not as much about killing.Alot of the guys I know don't kill the hogs they catch.It's an adrenaline rush above just shooting when you are going in to tie up the hog.If it wasn't they would just shoot them on sight.

You are right about the quicker they get there the better.It's better for the hogs,and for the dogs.


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## JAGER (Jun 29, 2008)

buckbacks said:


> I consider thermal imaging not Hunting or sporting, its simply nothing more than an exterminator for bigger game. You just have to use a gun for the end result instead of a chemical.



My rules of engagement are governed by the "Department of Natural Resources State HUNTING Regulation", not the state pest control agency. It requires a HUNTING license, not a pest control license. 

How do you convince a self-righteous individual that it is 100% legal to "hunt" invasive species at night with infrared equipment when they obviously have much higher ethics and morals than the posted hunting laws?

If the posted speed limit is 65 MPH, you have every right to drive 55 or even 45 if you choose. Why do you criticize those who drive 65? Its legal- Get over it!

---JAGER


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## Hawg "Rooter" (Jun 29, 2008)

Hey Jager I agree completely with buckbacks! My question to you is Why are you getting so deffensive? Don't start a thread unless you you expect to receive opinions BOTH positive and negative. There are many among us who beleive differently than you!


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## Apex Predator (Jun 29, 2008)

Jager, Do you get paid for those you take on your "hunting" excursions?  My moral compass guides me in what is right or wrong.  Man's law is not always the best guide to our ethics.  What do you think of our youth's facination with gangsta rap.  Do you burn the American flag?


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## SELFBOW (Jun 29, 2008)

JAGER said:


> My rules of engagement are governed by the "Department of Natural Resources State HUNTING Regulation", not the state pest control agency. It requires a HUNTING license, not a pest control license.
> 
> How do you convince a self-righteous individual that it is 100% legal to "hunt" invasive species at night with infrared equipment when they obviously have much higher ethics and morals than the posted hunting laws?
> 
> ...






Jager that is my opinion. I made sure not to target you in my post.
What you do is your choice. Just like if you were gay, that is your choice, Just Don't push it down my throat by making claims about how right it is or how legal it is. It's not for me.
and for the record, it's not that difficult to kill a hog anyway. Why do you need this "special method" to control them. Did your attempts at regular hunting methods fail? There are thousands of people who will travel to kill a hog "ethically"
I hunted a farm in 07 that was over run with hogs. In 08 there wasnt a TRACK. TRAPPING TOOK CARE OF THE PROBLEM.


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## JAGER (Jun 29, 2008)

Hunting hogs with dogs and thermal equipment are definitely controversial topics. Both methods take hunting to another level which produces negativity from hunters and non-hunters alike. Every thread I have posted with an Associated Press hog related article has ultimately ended off topic about my profession or thermal equipment.

I had dinner with a dozen USDA Wildlife Service agents last April at the National Conference on Feral Hogs in St. Louis. They were from the Midwest and the Southeast. We had a discussion about “media and publicity” surrounding feral hog control in their states. Every single agent told me the exact same thing. Attempting to educate the public about using professional control methods is too controversial and you will even end up alienating yourself from some of the hunting community. Guess what? They were right.

The USDA always performs their animal control missions (deer, hogs, coyotes, beaver) “under the radar” so the public remains unaware and uninformed. It seems the dog hunting community has also learned to quietly enjoy their sport without any media attention. The lack of response from the dog hunting community (minus hawg dawg, hogdawg and ejs1980) on this thread answers my questions loud and clear. 

---JAGER


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## ejs1980 (Jun 29, 2008)

Jager I bet you could post something about a cure for cancer and it would end just like this one. Buckbacks quoted something I said to start this downward spiral. I didn't mean for that to happen. I'm sure that if your kill total last year was 10 or so no one would have a problem with it. If trapping is so effective you wouldn't have any hogs too hunt. Trapping and normal hunting are great when you have 5 to 10 hogs just move in an area. Once that number reaches thirty or so normal hunting techniques can't keep up. I just wish I had half the acreage to run my dogs on as you hunt on.


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## kornbread (Jun 30, 2008)

hogdawg said:


> I'm not gonna get carried away, but I know what doggin' used to be, and I know what it could turn into, and I don't like it one bit. I saw a video on youtube today that made me want to throw up. Give a man a pit bull and he's ready to go huntin'. I don't know if it's publicity or just the times changin'(probably more publicity), but hey, I guess it is the way it is. I don't think there's anything you can do about it. There's always gonna be wannabes out there in any sport.
> 
> To answer your question, I think for the most part the video was positive, however, I don't think huntin' hogs with dogs is something that needs to be all over the media. just MHO


not that i do this but what is the diffrence in killing them with dogs or shooting them and trialing a blood trail for 4 hours ?and yes i use pits for my catch dogs but most of the time they stay on the 4 wheeler and we catch


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## hogdawg (Jun 30, 2008)

kornbread said:


> not that i do this but what is the diffrence in killing them with dogs or shooting them and trialing a blood trail for 4 hours ?and yes i use pits for my catch dogs but most of the time they stay on the 4 wheeler and we catch



I'm not really sure what you're gettin' at as far as the difference in killing them.  I've used pits as catch dogs too.  What's your point?  I would love to see you go in and grab a hog by the ear with your teeth!!


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## kornbread (Jun 30, 2008)

i like catching on the leg with my teeth


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## SULLI (Jul 2, 2008)

first off i'm not a hog dogger or a serious hog hunter at all . but i do enjoy reading these posts . what i don't understatnd is the big contraversy between jager and some of the dog guys it seems to me as an outsider that jager has turned his passion into a money making thing and i think thats great. everytime he posts something about this sport being in the news,everybody freaks out. from my view he is simply giving everybody an idea on how to capitalize on this sport ,i personnally don't see these posts as an attack on hog doggin. now from the  doggers side, i see they're point everything in the media these days is deffinatly gonna bring out the worst in anything and i can see where they are worried about the media bringing out the negative in this sport, i have been on hog hunts with dogs and personnaly it's not for me ,but i will never down what they do, i have never been hog hunting the way jager hunts but there again would never down his tactics, i think(once again as an outsider looking in) that all of you could benafit greatly from each other, if you would simply quite arguing about who's tactic is the best or most effective. as someone has said it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch so why not focus on making sure that the bad apple does not get exposed,but that all of the "good guys" are the ones in the spot light. i think both of these tactics definatly have they're place in effective hog management, but face it the dogs are not gonna catch every hog nor is the thermal imaging gonna kill every hog either. i think if everyone would be alittle more open minded then you might be able to see the point the other side is trying to make. this is just my .02 and everyone understand i am not trying to step on anybody's toes i just thought yall might like an outsiders opinion.


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## gigem (Jul 2, 2008)

SULLIE, well SAID brother, I feel the same way!


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## sticker (Jul 2, 2008)

Sulli you are totally right about that.  Thanks


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## SULLI (Jul 3, 2008)

i say why don't some of the dog guys and jager get togeather for a combo hunt let jager shoot as many as he can then when he's done turn out the dogs and run the rest down......now that sounds pretty effective.....just make sure i get invited, i'll ride with gigem.


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## SELFBOW (Jul 4, 2008)

I consider hog doggin a sport(I have never been on one, not for me)
What jager is doing I dont consider hunting or sporting(not for me as well)
I think most opinions are based on these 2 reasons.
I have pm'd with jager alot and "he knows his stuff" no doubt.
I feel his reasons for hog killing and doggers reasons for "hunting" are completely different things.


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## Rich Kaminski (Jul 4, 2008)

*Jaeger or Hog Dogging*

I do not have a problem either way.
There is a different audience interested in both methods and a different overall experience.
Jaeger appeal is to farmers who want the hogs gone for causing damage, possible younger people with a high tech bent and maybe folks wanting some meat (I understand you can shoot quite a few hogs on his hunts).
Doggers on the other hand appeals to excitement, culture and traditional hunting. It has more of a sports appeal to it.
Who knows, after the techies get a taste of high tech hunting they may become traditional hunters and God knows we can use more of them with the dwindling numbers of young people getting into hunting.
Just my thoughts and I could be wrong.


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## JAGER (Jul 4, 2008)

I posted my response to a new thread titled, "The Future of Georgia Hog Hunting".

---JAGER


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## SELFBOW (Apr 8, 2009)

SULLI said:


> i say why don't some of the dog guys and jager get togeather for a combo hunt let jager shoot as many as he can then when he's done turn out the dogs and run the rest down......now that sounds pretty effective.....just make sure i get invited, i'll ride with gigem.



That wouldn't work


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## sghoghunter (Apr 9, 2009)

Im for it cause from what I hear we already hunt some of the same places that jager hunts.I just started there last year and the guys said they can tell they are less hogs than before he came but there are still there.


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