# Adventures in Mounting a Scope



## hayseed_theology (Jun 8, 2015)

This thread will be pretty elementary for most of you guys, but some folks might be new to scope mounting.  Some folks might pick up a few tips, and some folks can give me some pointers on what I could do better.

So I picked up a short action Savage this year and up until now, it has been wearing an El Cheapo 3-9x40 scope.

I spent some time reading reviews on scopes, because this was going to have to be a budget scope.  If Iâ€™d had $500, I would have grabbed a VX-3 or a Ziess and been done with it.  I set my budget at $150.  For the scope buyer on a budget, I think used scopes are the way to go.  Donâ€™t get something that has been used as a hammer or mounted on a truck gun, but a lightly used scope can offer a great value.  Personally, I think a fair price is 15-30% below new retail depending on make and model.

I picked up a barely used Vortex Diamondback 2-7x35.  I felt like the 2-7x was a good fit for the .223 and my intended uses for the gun - mostly plinking on the range (max 200 yds) and some hunting (hog, coyote, and possibly deer on occasion).  Vortex has developed a reputation for very clear glass for the price.  This scope lives up to that reputation.  After a while, I will do a review of the scope.

So here is where it gets interesting, I had the El Cheapo mounted with a set of low Talley LW rings.  (Side note: Talley rings offer a great value, and I think they should be the first choice for a hunting rig).  When I went to swap the Vortex DB onto the gun, I realized that the tube on the Vortex is VERY short.  This is not surprising because the 2-7x are generally more compact. The front and rear sections of the tube are about ½â€� shorter than the El Cheapo.  The eye relief on the El Cheapo was actually pretty generous, but the eye relief on the Vortex DB is pretty stingy.  That means that the scope has to be mounted pretty far back, and the Talley rings would not allow that.  I looked into the Talley Extended bases, which move the front ring a little further back, but felt that they still didnâ€™t offer enough room.  I considered the DNZ mounts (another very good option for a hunting rig), but was afraid of running into the same problem.

The one option that was guaranteed to allow enough adjustment was a Picatinny rail.  Rings can be set anywhere along the rail making it the most versatile mounting system. I picked up a rail from EGW.  To go with it, I grabbed some Low Burris XTR rings and a Picatinny cap.  These rings have 6 screws per ring which seems a bit excessive, but at least I know the scope isnâ€™t gonna slip.

Before putting Loctite on anything, do a dry run by assembling the whole system to make sure all the components will work together.  After assembling everything, I found that the Picatinny rail extended too far forward.  The combination of short eye relief, short tube, and low rings meant that the objective bell contacted the front portion of the rail and did not allow proper mounting.

The rail could be turned around, but the rail then hung off the rear portion of the receiver, which is not desirable.  So, the best answer was to cut the nose off the rail just forward of the first screw.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 8, 2015)

When clamping the rail in a vise, use something non-marring (like wood) to hold it.  You don’t want to dent or scratch the finish on your new rail.  I started cutting with a cutting blade on the angle grinder.  Apparently my cutting blade was out of round, because the moment it touched the rail it began to bounce.  As you can see in some of the pics, I chewed it up a little.  That’s not what we were going for.

I finished the cut with a hacksaw.  I should have just used a hacksaw to begin with.  Power tools make things faster, but many times you give up a lot of control.  This was one of those times.  But, I think we can fix the portion that I chewed up.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 8, 2015)

I used the disc sander to clean up the cut and remove a little more material.  My sander has a small, adjustable table with a miter gauge to help get the angles right.  Use a speed square to set these angles properly, don’t trust the stops or numbers printed on them.  For the nose, I just want to make sure it is square.  Sanding will make a part very hot, so it’s not bad to have a bucket of water handy to cool.  This is especially important when working with steel, because you can change the temper of the metal by getting it too hot.  Rails are normally made of aluminum though.

After squaring the nose up and removing the right amount of material, I set the miter gauge at 45 degress to knock the corners off the front of the rail and sand off the portion that I chewed up.  It came out looking great.  I used a Birchwood Casey Super Black pen to cover the raw aluminum.  These pens can be pretty handy.  The finish they put on is not terribly durable, but for a situation like this they are great.  It is glossy, so it doesn’t match perfectly. But, unless it’s a gunsmith going over it with a fine tooth comb, no one will ever know that the rail didn’t come from the factory just like that.  The really good news is that the scope now clears the rail with a couple thousandths to spare!


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 8, 2015)

Another dry run to make sure everything works this time.  I don’t tighten things down for the dry runs, just snug them up enough to hold.  On the Talley rings, the forward screw bottomed out before it clamped the rings down, so I had to file a little off the bottom of the screw.  Also make sure that the screws do not interfere with operation of the bolt. That wasn’t a problem with EGW screws, but it is something to be aware of.  Also, I think this Savage was drilled on a Friday afternoon.  The holes appear to be drilled with a dull bit and threaded with a dull tap.  Not impressed with that.  I need to get a 6-48 taper and plug tap to clean up threads.  I should already have one, but I don’t.

Now it’s time to mount the rail.  EGW recommends 20 in/lbs and some blue Loctite for the screws.  I use the Wheeler FAT Wrench for my torque wrench.  It has worked great so far.  Not sure it matters, but I snug all the screws first, then torque to spec working from the front to the back.  Don’t put too much Loctite the screws.  It just takes a little.  I also like to have the bolt out while doing this.  More than one person has dumped too much Loctite on a screw only to have it run down in the receiver and Loctite the bolt in place!

Now it is time to set the location of the rings on the rail.  It’s best to mark the location of the rings during your dry run, so you don’t have to reassemble the setup for this step.  When locating the rings on the rail, make sure to push them forward to rest up against the lugs of the rail.  If you don’t, they may shift under recoil.

Once they are in the proper position, go ahead and torque them down.  Burris recommends 65-100 in/lbs on these rings.  My FAT Wrench only goes up to 65 in/lbs, so I went 20, 40, 55, and then 65 in/lbs.  I think they will hold just fine.

I have a scope mounting kit from Wheeler that I use.  It included alignment bars, a lapping kit, and the FAT Wrench.  The alignment bars are clamped in the rings and the points should be perfectly aligned.  If not, then the rings are out of alignment. The alignment on the rings looks good as you can see from the pics.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

Next, we need to lap the rings.  While they may appear perfectly round, rings normally aren’t perfect.  Lapping the rings removes a little material to aid in alignment and remove high spots that can dent or scratch the scope.  Also, the contact surface of the rings is increased so they will have a better grip on the scope.  Scopes slipping under recoil isn’t generally an issue with the .223, but on larger calibers, it definitely can be.

Here is a good video from Larry Potterfield on how to lap: 


It’s pretty simple.  Put a little compound on the rings and lapping bar.  Move it back and forth.  Periodically tighten the screws.  Check your progress often. When putting the top halves back on, make sure they go back where they came from (front on front, back on back), and make sure that they are oriented the same direction as when you started.  If you don’t mark them, you will forget which way they were oriented.  If you swap them or turn them around, you are taking a step backwards.   It’s better to go too slow than too far.  Don’t try to get 100% contact. I was shooting for around 75%.  Try to keep the lapping compound out of the screw holes.  When you are done, make sure to clean the rings very well!  You don’t want to leave behind any lapping compound.  That means rags and degreaser.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

Now it is time to set the eye relief (how far the scope is from your eye).  The eye relief on this Vortex DB is pretty short and not very forgiving.  There is a temptation to adjust your head to work with the scope.  Right now, that’s now what we want to do.  Put your head in a natural, comfortable position on the stock like you were shooting.  Then move the scope to accommodate you.  If you have tunnel vision or trouble seeing through the scope, it is often because the eye relief is not correct.  I like to set the eye relief with the scope on it’s highest magnification because that’s where it is least forgiving.  You should see a full, clear image from edge to edge.  Play with it for a while, because it is worth getting right.  Try it in a couple different shooting positions.

Now it is time to level the crosshairs.  There are several ways to do this.  Some folks just eyeball it.  Some folks hang a plumb bob and use the string as a guide for the crosshairs.  I use a Wheeler Scope Leveling kit like this:


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

Once the scope is leveled, it is time to torque down the screws.  When torqueing down the screws, try to make sure that the scope does not rotate and that you have equal gap on both sides of the rings.  Tightening in a crisscross pattern seems to help keep the scope from rotating.  The Burris rings recommend 20 in/lbs for the ring screws.  I snugged all the screws up, tightened all of them to 10 in/lbs, and then 20 in/lbs. Once you finish, be sure to go back and recheck the first couple screws that got tightened.  Often you will find that they loosened when the others were tightened.

Well, after all of this, I realized the objective bell was barely touching the rail.  I thought I might could get away with it, but it’s not right.  It bothered me that it wasn’t right, so I loosened up the rings.  I reset the eye relief.  Re-leveled the crosshairs.  Slid a piece of paper between the scope and rail just to make sure I had a little clearance.  Went through the whole song and dance of torqueing all 12 screws in sequence.  Got done and the objective bell was touching again!  Apparently torqueing down the screws pushed down enough on the scope to make it touch.  I tried convincing myself that it was ok, but I couldn’t do it.  

I loosened all 12 ring screws AGAIN.  This time I filed a little bit of material off the lugs that were contacting the scope.  Reset eye relief.  Re-leveled scope.  Retorqued screws. This time it was just right.  I can slide a .0015” feeler gauge between scope and rail with no resistance.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

I boresighted it using a Bushnell tool, but I will check it when I get to the range by pulling the bolt out and looking down the bore.  The cheap boresighter works when you are inside or on guns that you can't look down the bore.  Looking down the bore is still the cheapest and most reliable method. (By the way, the scope is not canted like it appears in the pic.  I set the gun back in the vise to take a pic, and the gun happens to be leaning a little. Don't worry, the leveling kit did it's job.  Crosshairs are good and level.  Don't believe the pic.)

I think Murphy’s Law dictates that when you fix one problem, you create two more.  The Picatinny rail fixed one problem, but created others.  One such problem was the height of the scope above the bore.  I like my scopes as close as possible to the bore.  That is generally considered a good practice, and that normally gives me the best cheek weld.  The Picatinny rail set the scope about 3/8” higher than in was in the Talley’s.  That means that the comb on the factory stock is now too low for a consistent cheek weld.  So, I ordered a Beartooth Comb Raising kit.  The kit is simply a neoprene sleeve with varying thicknesses of foam to slide into it to raise the comb height.  That should be problem solved.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

Now for those wondering why I have a Picatinny rail on top of the front ring.  I plan to occasionally run a light on top of the scope for hog and coyote hunting.  Thanks to a close friend, I normally shoot an AR-10 with Gen 3 NV while hog hunting, but every now and then he wants to hunt with his rifle.  Imagine that.  On those occasions, a scope mounted light will have to suffice.  While I don’t think it is generally advisable to mount accessories that way, it is common practice for Wicked Lights and similar kits.  I felt like the Burris XTR rings with the 6 screws and optional integrated picatinny top ring made this a good foundation for mounting a light.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

Just wanted to share that for some of you guys that are thinking about doing more of you own light gunsmithing.  Scope mounting is a pretty simple process, but most people don't bother to take the time to do it right.  With a few simple hand tools, you can do the job well yourself.  At times, you will encounter bumps in the road like I did, but that's part of the fun of it.

Here's another good video from Larry showing the whole process using Leupold Standard Base and Rings:


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## georgia357 (Jun 9, 2015)

Very informative, thanks for taking the time to post this.


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## cmshoot (Jun 9, 2015)

Excellent!


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## jglenn (Jun 9, 2015)

if you turn your ring alignment bars around you may find them easier to use....

nice article


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 9, 2015)

jglenn said:


> if you turn your ring alignment bars around you may find them easier to use....
> 
> nice article



Interesting.  I will give it a shot next time.


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## hayseed_theology (Jun 11, 2015)

The Beartooth Comb raising kit came in yesterday.  Like I said, it's just a neoprene sleeve with different thickness of foam included.

Slide the sleeve over the stock.  The directions say to come from the muzzle and work it back, but that doesn't work if you already have your scope mounted up.  So I had to come from the butt end.  That's a booger bear.  My sweet wife provided an extra set of hands, which was a huge help. I slid it on the stock inside out because it slides better that way.  The outside is kinda slick; the inside is very tacky.

Slide it all the way up to the pistol grip.  Choose the appropriate thickness of foam and set it on the top of the stock.  I chose 3/8" thick.  I rolled the sleeve back over the foam turning it right side out as I went.  Rolling it back helps keep the foam in place versus trying to slide it back over the foam.

I found that sliding the foam a little to one side gave me the best cheek weld.  I will have to cut a little slit in it for the swivel stud.

Problem solved.  The main complaint on the reviews is how difficult it is to install.  It was difficult, but not unreasonable. Can't wait to get this puppy back to the range.


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## JohnK (Jun 30, 2015)

cmshoot said:


> Excellent!



Mr. cmshoot responded to a post of mine and was kind enough to invite me to his home and he remounted a scope for me, free of charge, and a fine job it was. Thanks again and by the way I ended up with 2 different off the shelf ammo shooting in an inch afterwards.


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