# 45 LC for Grizzly



## Gunpowder (Mar 16, 2014)

I won't be hunting but will be fishing and these bears are present. Looking for suggestions on a factory or handload in case of emergency. A rifle , shotgun , or spray is not an option.


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## TJay (Mar 16, 2014)

Buffalo Bore makes +P loads for the 45 colt but you must make sure your revolver is rated for it.  The Colt SAA and it's clones are NOT built for such loads.  The Ruger Blackhawk and the Freedom Arms revolvers are two that come to mind that will handle this ammo.  If you want to load some bear ammo H110 or W296 are the go-to powders and they perform best at max or near max levels.  If I was loading bear ammo I would load a good quality cast bullet from 300 to 325 grains.  This would be ammo for a specific purpose (bear medicine) and I would not subject my hand, wrist or revolver to such punishment on a regular basis.  Have fun and keep your eyes peeled!  
Since you didn't mention what kind of revolver you are shooting, do your "due diligence" and research what revolvers will handle high pressure 45 colt loads.  http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm this would be a good starting link.


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## Big7 (Mar 16, 2014)

You got a Ruger single or double action, especially a Bisley, you are good to go.

They can be loaded to .44 Mag pressures.. Bear (pun) minimum
for a big bear..

On the other hand, the Judge with the first two with some 3 inch
#4's for the eyes, followed by the 000 buck in the rest of the holes would do the trick..

One could also argue a .22 long rifle CAN kill just about anything on the planet. That would not be my first choice.

Be careful. Them browns are very heavy game. Pack the hottest thing you got..


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## Old Coach (Mar 16, 2014)

Also ck out Garrett Ammo for the 45Colt.
Marshall Stanton at Beartooth bullets is a good source for Hard Cast Bullets if you handload.
I agree on H110 or Win 296 for powder.
I use the Beartooth bullet in a FA revolver.

Coach


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## Gunpowder (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions. I have two 45LC in Ruger Blackhawk.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Mar 17, 2014)

Just curious, why is spray not an option?


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## jmoser (Mar 17, 2014)

I load 335 gr LBT hard cast bullets with +max+ charges of H110 [WW296.]  Nothing will penetrate more than that; forget expansion and worry about breaking bone on the exit.

CAREFUL on the Bisley Vaqueros - Ruger changed the design a bit and newer guns are not as strong.  This was around 2006 I believe; cylinder diameter was reduced.

Blackhawks are unaffected by this.


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## Big7 (Mar 17, 2014)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Just curious, why is spray not an option?



Cause you will get eat! Check back to the story bout' the two girls in the tent that time.??

Lead.. The only way to go..


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## TJay (Mar 17, 2014)

Yessir it would be one of life's defining moments when that big ol' coastal brownie pops out of the brush on the other side of that shallow river, and you're wishin' that fishin' rod was a shotgun loaded with slugs and him thinkin' of a little "surf and turf"!


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Mar 17, 2014)

Big7 said:


> Cause you will get eat! Check back to the story bout' the two girls in the tent that time.??
> 
> Lead.. The only way to go..



I'm all about slingin some lead, but there's increasingly more research that shows bear spray is much more effective in stopping close-quarters bear attacks.  It's worth looking into.


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## GunnSmokeer (Mar 17, 2014)

*Buffalo Bore*

Like a prior poster said, Buffalo Bore makes some very powerful handgun ammo for special purpose applications.
One type of ammo they make features super-heavy flat-front lead bullets driven to high velocities at +P pressures.

They have a 325 grain bullet for their .45 Colt +P heavy that is advertised to have over 1300 f.p.s. muzzle velocity. I'm not sure what barrel length handgun or maybe rifle was used to get that figure.

I don't really like the idea of using a .45 handgun on a 1,000 pound carnivore that may be running at you at 25 mph to either eat you or just kill you to teach you a lesson about respecting the bear's private space.  I'd rather have a long gun. If it had to be a handgun, I'd like a S&W .460 or .500 magnum with an 8" barrel.

But since you already have a .45 Colt pistol that you like, and it's a modern well-made one that can handle high pressure loads, I'd go with Buffalo Bore and cross your fingers and hope for the best.


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## Gunpowder (Mar 18, 2014)

A rifle would be better if I wasn't going to be fishing. Have to sling it over my back where as the pistol would be in a holster on my chest. I just feel the pistol would be quicker to get to. I could be wrong though.


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## 660griz (Mar 18, 2014)

Gunpowder said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I have two 45LC in Ruger Blackhawk.



In no way would I rely on a single action for this. 
You may not have time.
http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html

In Grizzly country, I take pepper spray, and my .454. If you have to use pepper spray...you are out of pepper spray.


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## Cullen Bohannon (Mar 18, 2014)

Yep - single action is bad, bad, bad juju for defensive situations.  Really.  You are not ever likely to have time to cock, before rattling off all of your chambers or magazine in a defensive situation.

I remain unconvinced on any kind of spray to stop a critter heck-bent on killing you.  (I do know from personal experience that wicked pepper spray has absolutely zero effect dogs who are in a deathmatch).  Maybe a bear who is simply angry or hungry is another story, though.  Don't wanna test that theory, though.

But back to the OP - yeah, I think .45 LC in a (NON - DEPARTMENT STORE BRAND) would be a decent defensive round against a griz.  But not necessarily a good hunting round.


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## TaxPhd (Mar 26, 2014)

Old Coach said:


> Also ck out Garrett Ammo for the 45Colt.
> Marshall Stanton at Beartooth bullets is a good source for Hard Cast Bullets if you handload.
> I agree on H110 or Win 296 for powder.
> I use the Beartooth bullet in a FA revolver.
> ...



While Garrett ammo is great stuff, they don't make any for .45 Colt, AFAIK.


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## Kawaliga (Mar 26, 2014)

You better be a good shot.


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## 660griz (Mar 27, 2014)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/78...mance-lead-wide-flat-nose-gas-check-box-of-20

You would be better off with a .44 Mag. Do you have one of those?
.45 Colt is better than nothing but, even loaded hot you are just getting to a .44 mag level and I consider .44 mag marginal for the big bears. Even with Buffalo Bore +P ammo. 

If I were you, I would sell the .45 Colt, get a nice .454, (Ruger Super Redhawk) shoot .45 colts in it for plinking, and load it up with the good stuff (454) for protection against the Griz.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Mar 27, 2014)

Kawaliga said:


> You better be a good shot.



Like shooting a target the size of a baseball while it's bouncing towards you at 30mph.  I know I'm arguing with a stump by coming into the handgun forum and suggesting using bear spray, but a 30ft wide cloud of bear spray offers a better umbrella of protection than a bullet that's less than half an inch in diameter, regardless of how much energy it's carrying.

Are you confident enough to get off a brain shot in a split second?  What if you just glance it off his cheek?  He's gonna be pretty ticked when he knocks you off your feet and your gun goes flying.  Even if you manage a heart/lung shot, he's still got enough time left to do irreparable damage to you.  

Don't take my word, or anyone's word.  Google the BYU bear attack study and look at the numbers yourself.  It's very comprehensive and shows what I'm talking about.  A greater percentage of bear/gun encounters end in attacks than do bear/spray encounters.


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## 660griz (Mar 27, 2014)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> A greater percentage of bear/gun encounters end in attacks than do bear/spray encounters.



That's exactly why you should bring both. There are surprise/defensive attacks and there are predatory attacks. 

If you do bear spray only, bring more than one cannister.
Nothing worse than being in the middle of nowhere, have to 'chase' one off with spray and have 10 miles to go in bear country with no spray or weapon.

The best defense is to learn how to 'act' in bear country. Chances are slim you will need spray or firearm.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Mar 27, 2014)

660griz said:


> That's exactly why you should bring both. There are surprise/defensive attacks and there are predatory attacks.
> 
> If you do bear spray only, bring more than one cannister.
> Nothing worse than being in the middle of nowhere, have to 'chase' one off with spray and have 10 miles to go in bear country with no spray or weapon.
> ...



Sound advice!


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## IFLY4U (Mar 27, 2014)

I have hunted and fished a lot in Alaska and seen many bears, and even shot a few. With  that being said, nothing beats common sense and a clean camp. My pistol lays in the tent 90% of the time... The first grizzly that I backed a hunter up on took 3 shots from my 375 H&H and 3 shots from a .338 Win Mag before he turned at 40 yards. The hits didn't even stagger the bear. A few years later,  I knocked another 8 1/2 footer down with the first shot, but he got back up and it took two more rounds to finish him off. Bears have been killed with all calibers of hand guns and even a .22... for that matter, a guy killed one with an arrow by hand while getting mauled a few years ago. My rambling point is don't let  the possession of a pistol build your confidence so much that you make careless mistakes.


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## rosewood (Apr 2, 2014)

jmoser said:


> CAREFUL on the Bisley Vaqueros - Ruger changed the design a bit and newer guns are not as strong.  This was around 2006 I believe; cylinder diameter was reduced.
> 
> Blackhawks are unaffected by this.




I have heard this many times, but it is un-substantiated.  The "New" frame is a bit smaller, but the cylinder is the same.  The Blackhawk, Vaquero and Bisley are identical frames and cylinders, just different sites and hammer, all are just as rugged.  They are all now "new" frames.  I have shot full house .44 mag equivalent loads out of mine and the only thing giving in, is my hand from the recoil.  You compare the cylinders wall thickness on the "new" model with other brand .45 colts, there is no comparison.

You hit a bear in the vitals with a 300+ grain hard cast bullet doing 1000+ fps, he is going to slow down.  I can see an issue with a revolver, unless you shoot the gun alot, you might have to think about cocking it.  But if you shoot frequently, it becomes second nature.  Gunfighters of old west defended their lives daily with single action pistols.  Backup is always a good thing, carry the spray also.

The other question is, will there be black bears, grizzly or brown bears present?  If you are in good ole GA, all you have to worry about is black bears and they aren't tough like grizzlies and will usually run off at the site of you and at the least a shot in their direction.


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## TaxPhd (Apr 9, 2014)

Years ago (I'm thinking mid to late 80's) Ross Seyfried wrote a bunch about hotrodding the .45 Colt.  He was coming up with loads for hunting Lion and Cape Buffalo, and it was pretty amazing what kind of performance he was getting.  I have no idea where you might locate some of that information, but a Google search might turn up something.


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## 660griz (Apr 10, 2014)

TaxPhd said:


> Years ago (I'm thinking mid to late 80's) Ross Seyfried wrote a bunch about hotrodding the .45 Colt.  He was coming up with loads for hunting Lion and Cape Buffalo, and it was pretty amazing what kind of performance he was getting.  I have no idea where you might locate some of that information, but a Google search might turn up something.



Unfortunately, hunting dangerous game and self-defense from dangerous game may require a different mindset. 

For instance, bow can be use to hunt, not a good choice for self defense. Extreme example I know.


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## TaxPhd (Apr 10, 2014)

660griz said:


> Unfortunately, hunting dangerous game and self-defense from dangerous game may require a different mindset.
> 
> For instance, bow can be use to hunt, not a good choice for self defense. Extreme example I know.



I don't know how much you know about Seyfried.  He was a Professional honter in Africa.  His work with .45 Colt was for the purposes of finding a cartridge that would be as effective a stopper as was possible from a revolver.  For self defense from dangerous game, it was about as effective as was possible from a revolver.


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## 660griz (Apr 10, 2014)

TaxPhd said:


> I don't know how much you know about Seyfried.  He was a Professional honter in Africa.  His work with .45 Colt was for the purposes of finding a cartridge that would be as effective a stopper as was possible from a revolver.  For self defense from dangerous game, it was about as effective as was possible from a revolver.



It was also, I think, a custom gun designed to shoot .45 'magnums'.

I have no problem with wanting a good load in a handgun you deem a shooter. But, for the average joe, wanting a handgun for self defense from bears(ie. Grizzlies) There is already a 'hopped' up .45 colt in a double action proven to be up to the job. The .454 
He(Ross) didn't like double actions because he didn't feel they were shooters, meaning long/medium distance shots. This is only a problem if you are hunting with it. Long barrels and single action are not the formula for Grizzly defense.
His defense against the buffalo was predictable. Wounded during a hunt, spotted in time, etc. 
Being stalked and rushed by a Grizzly, worse case scenario, I don't want to have to cock anything.


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## TaxPhd (Apr 10, 2014)

660griz said:


> It was also, I think, a custom gun designed to shoot .45 'magnums'.
> 
> I have no problem with wanting a good load in a handgun you deem a shooter. But, for the average joe, wanting a handgun for self defense from bears(ie. Grizzlies) There is already a 'hopped' up .45 colt in a double action proven to be up to the job. The .454
> He(Ross) didn't like double actions because he didn't feel they were shooters, meaning long/medium distance shots. This is only a problem if you are hunting with it. Long barrels and single action are not the formula for Grizzly defense.
> ...



I think we are on the same page.

I don't think a single action is optimum, either.  I was initially responding to an inquiry about .45 Colt as a caliber, rather than the suitability of a single action revolver.

For me, a 629 on the hip at all times.  And either a Marlin Guide Gun or my .375 bolt gun.  The revolver is just last ditch insurance.


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## 660griz (Apr 10, 2014)

TaxPhd said:


> I think we are on the same page.
> 
> I don't think a single action is optimum, either.  I was initially responding to an inquiry about .45 Colt as a caliber, rather than the suitability of a single action revolver.
> 
> For me, a 629 on the hip at all times.  And either a Marlin Guide Gun or my .375 bolt gun.  The revolver is just last ditch insurance.



There ya go. A Marlin Guide Gun...if I didn't need my hands free. With a pistol and bear spray on my side. Oh, and a knife and a rape whistle.
Be prepared.


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## jmoser (Apr 11, 2014)

rosewood said:


> I have heard this many times, but it is un-substantiated.  The "New" frame is a bit smaller, but the cylinder is the same.  The Blackhawk, Vaquero and Bisley are identical frames and cylinders, just different sites and hammer, all are just as rugged.  They are all now "new" frames.



http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero.htm

Here is substantiation on different cylinder dimensions on the 'New' .357; I can measure my 'Old' model .45 if anyone wants to compare.
Frame Window height will limit maximum cylnder OD.
If your cylinder is less than 1.700" OD then it is smaller than the 'Old' model Vaquero


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## Barry Duggan (Apr 11, 2014)

TaxPhd said:


> Years ago (I'm thinking mid to late 80's) Ross Seyfried wrote a bunch about hotrodding the .45 Colt.  He was coming up with loads for hunting Lion and Cape Buffalo, and it was pretty amazing what kind of performance he was getting.  I have no idea where you might locate some of that information, but a Google search might turn up something.



Ross was working with 5 shot cylinder, Bowen custom type .45 Colts. They are right in there with the 454 Casull when it comes pressure limits for handloads. World of difference when compared to your basic 6 shot Rugers and such.

There is a world of difference between killing something and stopping a charge. 
I think a couple of grenades would be your best option, but they are hard to come by, and highly illegal to own.


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## leoparddog (Apr 11, 2014)

I'm looking for a .45 Colt Ruger Redhawk which is supposed to be as strong as or stronger than the .45 Colt Blackhawk - wanting a 5.5" barreled model.  They have made them in the past but are not in production currently.  

I'm headed to Alaska this summer and hopefully will find one before I get there.  I don't have any interest in a .454 SRH Alaskan or a .44Mag version.  Buying and cutting down a .454 SRH to 5" or so is a possibility but for that kind of money, I should be able to find what I'm looking for.

If a full cylinder of hot and heavy 45 Colt loads won't do the trick, I'm doubting a 454 would either - especially considering the extra recoil slowing down my follow up shots from a 454


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## Boar Hunter (Apr 13, 2014)

I've never been to Alaska, but I would look at what the people that live there are using.  I think you'll see a lot of 44 mags and Casulls there.


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## Rich Kaminski (Apr 13, 2014)

The Brown Bear in my avatar was taken in Russia. Two shots or a 375 Mag. I would not even consider a 45 cal against a large bear.
The best bear guide in Canada carries a shotgun with slugs.


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## GT-40 GUY (Apr 20, 2014)

When I was hunting for brown bears in Alaska ALL of the guides that I saw carried .454 Casulls.


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## ghadarits (Apr 23, 2014)

*Alaska wepons*

I noticed when I've been to Alaska that he locals have at minimum a pistol grip 12ga shotgun slung on their backs. Then about half again had a large caliber pistol on their side. 

The only time in my life that I've felt under gunned with a .44 mag on my side was way up a very remote river in Alaska. 

When you can't see over the ferns growing beside the river its kind of spooky.


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