# Questions about flintlocks



## deerslayer7600 (Aug 18, 2009)

My son was recently given an old flintlock rifle; and he is really looking foward to learning about it and hunting with it. My questions are: What type of powder would you recommend using in it , Pyrodex or a true black powder; Do you use the same type of powder in the frizzen pan that you use for the main charge (FFF or ???) And do you have to shape the flint some way to get a better spark? I have never shot a flintlock; I have a modern inline C.V.A. so any help that anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.


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## tv_racin_fan (Aug 18, 2009)

Hey bud if you want to get together one day and shoot that thing give me a shout.

I am not an expert but I do shoot a flintlock. I use only true black powder (ok that is some exageration I have actually used some Pyrodex and I have a can of 777 but I wont use it in the flintlock). When I used the Pyrodex it was because I had made a mistake and added some true black to a flask of Pyrodex (not a good idea I suppose).

What caliber rifle is it? I ask because it does make a difference. The book says to use FFg for 50 caliber and larger and FFFg for 45 and lower. I use FFFg in my 50 caliber rifles. You can get by with FFFg in the pan (or at least some say you can) but you should use FFFFg. I actually have recently aquired a BP shotgun and they say I should try Fg powder in it.

Some locks spark better with the bevel up and some with the bevel down and only trial and error will determine which yours is. Many people prefer the real knapped flints but I have used the cut agates without a problem (hey maybe I did have a problem but me being new to flinters didn't know it).

Good luck!!!
Bryon


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## hawgrider1200 (Aug 18, 2009)

*flinter*



deerslayer7600 said:


> My son was recently given an old flintlock rifle; and he is really looking foward to learning about it and hunting with it. My questions are: What type of powder would you recommend using in it , Pyrodex or a true black powder; Do you use the same type of powder in the frizzen pan that you use for the main charge (FFF or ???) And do you have to shape the flint some way to get a better spark? I have never shot a flintlock; I have a modern inline C.V.A. so any help that anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.


How old is that flinter? If it's a true antique don't shoot it. Not because it's dangerous, but to preserve the gun for posterity. How to tell? If it has a stamp on the barrel warning you not to use anything other than Black powder it is not a true antique. If it does not have a stamp on it it may be a real antique. (not always but possible)


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## Nicodemus (Aug 18, 2009)

Do not use anything but true blackpowder in a flintlock. Give us some info on the rifle, and maybe we can help you with it.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 18, 2009)

What TRF  and Nic said. Use real black powder, it ignites quicker and easier than most of the more modern black powder substitutes. Plus it's just the right thing to do.  FFFFg is good for the pan, but I've used FFg a lot because it's hard to find the ffffg sometimes. The flint has to be sharp, and play around with placement until you get a good spark and no delay. The flint shouldn't hit too high or low on the frizzen, and should point roughly at the center of the pan. Flintlocks are a ball to shoot, but they take a bit of tinkering to get set up right and a bit of shooting to get used to the small explosion going off an inch in front of your eye.


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## RickD (Aug 18, 2009)

I`ve shoot flintlocks for 20+ years..Use only real black powder 2F or 3 f will work fine..You can use 3f in the pan but 4 f is better..If you dont know what cal it is I can mic out the barrel for you..


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## deerslayer7600 (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks guys. It is a .44 and it says Made In Italy, and has Jager stamped on the bottom side of the barrel (only visible when stock is removed) I'll go pick up some FFF Black powder and see if I can find some FFFF for the pan.


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## hawgrider1200 (Aug 19, 2009)

44 caliber bullets are gonna b hard to find ain't they? I guess a fellow could use .430 conicals and patch em.


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## Flintrock (Sep 24, 2009)

If it is a true 44 cal. you will use a .437 round ball.
.
use the hand cut English flints if you can find them.They work better than the Arkansas cuts.
.
Did you find some flints, balls and powder ?


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## Skyjacker (Sep 24, 2009)

I have a Lyman's Flint Lock Great Plains Rifle.  I pour 10 grains of FFFFG black powder in the barrel, followed by 100 grains of Hodgson Triple 7 FFG.  I then fill the pan with the FFFFG black powder.


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## hawgrider1200 (Sep 24, 2009)

*Too much powder?*



Skyjacker said:


> I have a Lyman's Flint Lock Great Plains Rifle.  I pour 10 grains of FFFFG black powder in the barrel, followed by 100 grains of Hodgson Triple 7 FFG.  I then fill the pan with the FFFFG black powder.


That's a substancial load brother, What caliber is that rifle?
OP has a 44 cal and in my opinion 110 grains of powder is too mch for the caliber he is shooting. He was talking abut letting his son use the gun, I don't remember if he said what the boy's age is. Unless he's grown and has shot lots of guns, I'd recomend a light load for the boy, perhaps 10 grains less that the recommended light load for a 50 cal. I think I remember that is about 50grains of fffg.


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## Skyjacker (Sep 24, 2009)

hawgrider1200 said:


> That's a substancial load brother, What caliber is that rifle?
> OP has a 44 cal and in my opinion 110 grains of powder is too mch for the caliber he is shooting. He was talking abut letting his son use the gun, I don't remember if he said what the boy's age is. Unless he's grown and has shot lots of guns, I'd recomend a light load for the boy, perhaps 10 grains less that the recommended light load for a 50 cal. I think I remember that is about 50grains of fffg.



50 cal.  I shoot 425 grain Hornady Great Plain conicals.   I havent thought of my load for that gun in a long time.  I've been doing the same thing for 4 years with it.  

I shoot 150 grains of Pyrodex Pellets and a 250 grain Shock Wave Sabots in my Thompson Omega 50 cal. Shot some massive deer with that load.


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## Flintrock (Sep 25, 2009)

Skyjacker said:


> I have a Lyman's Flint Lock Great Plains Rifle.  I pour 10 grains of FFFFG black powder in the barrel, followed by 100 grains of Hodgson Triple 7 FFG.  I then fill the pan with the FFFFG black powder.



4F down the barrel ?.
That is an accident waiting to happen.
I know you are only using it to make your tripple 7 work 
but thats is like placing 15-20 grains of powder in an area ment for 10 grains plus the other load ontop of that.
 .
also, the 4F is small enough that the grains can work out of the touch hole leaving you a nice little air gap in the breach and that will give you a long hang fire and /or a damaged barrel


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## Nicodemus (Sep 25, 2009)

Flintrock said:


> 4F down the barrel ?.
> That is an accident waiting to happen.
> I know you are only using it to make your tripple 7 work
> but thats is like placing 15-20 grains of powder in an area ment for 10 grains plus the other load ontop of that.
> ...





I agree!!! That is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Plus, there is no need to do it.


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## hawgrider1200 (Sep 25, 2009)

Skyjacker said:


> 50 cal.  I shoot 425 grain Hornady Great Plain conicals.   I havent thought of my load for that gun in a long time.  I've been doing the same thing for 4 years with it.
> 
> I shoot 150 grains of Pyrodex Pellets and a 250 grain Shock Wave Sabots in my Thompson Omega 50 cal. Shot some massive deer with that load.





Flintrock said:


> 4F down the barrel ?.
> That is an accident waiting to happen.
> I know you are only using it to make your tripple 7 work
> but thats is like placing 15-20 grains of powder in an area ment for 10 grains plus the other load ontop of that.
> ...





Nicodemus said:


> I agree!!! That is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Plus, there is no need to do it.



I agree with those gentlemen, I know Nicodemus is a very knowledgable man when it comes to all things related to the old ways. That's too much load for ur 50 cal lyman's rifle. Just because you have done it that way 4 yrs don't mean its safe.

The 150 grain load for that TC Omega is fine cuz the Omega is designed for that load, it might b more accurate with 120 grains or 130 grains only way u can find out is by using loose powder and measuring in 5 to ten grain increments and trying groups with each load. start with the 150 if u like and try a group with 140 grains then 130 grains it might b the most accurate load is the 150 grain load but probably not. Likely ur not burning all the powder with that load anyhow. Hate to see u start a forest fire with that thing.


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## Skyjacker (Sep 27, 2009)

Flintrock said:


> 4F down the barrel ?.
> That is an accident waiting to happen.
> I know you are only using it to make your tripple 7 work
> but thats is like placing 15-20 grains of powder in an area ment for 10 grains plus the other load ontop of that.
> ...


That was the recommended load for shooting pellets and that bullet.  I've shot it several times with that load.  It does kick.  What would you recommend?

I would have to go dig it up, but I read that if you  are going to shoot triple 7 powder out of a flint lock muzzleloader, then you have to prime both sides with 4F.  I haven't shot the gun in 2 years, as I prefer my inline, but I'm almost positive that was my load.  

Any links would be helpful.


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 27, 2009)

If there is a recommended load that envolves 4f down the tube I would avoid it like the plague. 2f I could see, even 3f but not 4f.

For that matter the substitutes have no place in flintlock usage.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 27, 2009)

I can`t help you with anything about an inline, as I have no experience whatsoever with them. I`ve never even held one. I`ve fooled with traditional rifles a little bit though. The reason that true blackpowder is all that is recommended in flintlocks, is because all the blackpowder substitutes are hard to ignite. In an improperly tuned flintlock, that could be the difference between meat and goin` hungry. 

Both of my rifles are 50s, which means I can shoot either FFg or FFFg in them, accordin` to the manual. I`ve tried both, and they like FFFg better. I use FFFFg in the primin` pan on my flintlock, but in a pinch, FFFg will work fine. A 70 grain load in my percussion plains rifle, and a 60 grain load in my flintlock, with push a .490 patched round ball completely through a deer. In fact, with these loads, I would take on anything that walks the North American continent with either weapon, with confidence.

I`m not tryin` to be standoffish here, but if anybody ever puts any amount of FFFFg down the barel of a rifle, while I`m in the vicinity, please tell me so I can get in the clear, or behind something...


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 27, 2009)

Nic, the only BP firearm I have that I might try some 4f in the chamber would be my Ruger Old Army. The manual states it is safe for me to use any granulation of BP or substitute I want in any amount I can safely get a projectile IN the chamber. I trust Ruger. I also agree that something less than 100 grains would be fine for anything on this continent. I can not see any reason for a 150grain load.

I made the mistake once of adding some 2f powder to a flask of pyrodex that ran just fine in my flintlock. So I could see some 2f or 3f to help ignite a substitute but honestly I don't see the point in it because it just makes loading that much harder. Now I have to have two flasks and my pan primer? naahh not for me.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 27, 2009)

Sems like I have heard of usin` it some of the black powder revolvers, now that you mention it. An I can go along with that, long as the manufacturer says so. 

One more thing I`m not familiar with, is conicals. My plains rifle is capable of shootin` them, but since I`ve always had good luck with patched round balls, I have never tried them.


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 27, 2009)

I have a few different conicals to try out but have just never done so. The PRB is good for pretty much as far as I can see. Now I would use a conical if I was going after Bison or the more dangerous bear but I see nothing in GA I need them for.

Having said that I intend to find some conicals for my revolver. I intend to try round ball out of them as well but a good flat pointed conical seems like a good idea.


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## dawg2 (Sep 27, 2009)

I would never put FFFF in the barrel!  That is an accident waiting to happen.  Like Nic said, let me know if anyone shoots around me so I can leave the area.

  I use FFF for the load and FFFF in the pan.  Mine is a .50 with a 1:66 so I can only use ball, no conicals.  The bullet / ball will depend on your barrel twist.  A longer slow twist will not do well with conicals.


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## Skyjacker (Sep 27, 2009)

After all the replies, I went and opened up the safe and pulled out all my loading notes (yes I keep them).

I made a mistake.  I use 1 grain of 4F in the barrel then pour in 100 grains of Hodgson Triple seven 2FG.  I then use 4F in the pan.  

Whoops.  Sorry for freaking everyone out.  The lesson here is ALWAYS TAKE NOTES on your loads and that way you don't have a massive accident.


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## dawg2 (Sep 28, 2009)

Skyjacker said:


> After all the replies, I went and opened up the safe and pulled out all my loading notes (yes I keep them).
> 
> I made a mistake.  I use 1 grain of 4F in the barrel then pour in 100 grains of Hodgson Triple seven 2FG.  I then use 4F in the pan.
> 
> Whoops.  Sorry for freaking everyone out.  The lesson here is ALWAYS TAKE NOTES on your loads and that way you don't have a massive accident.


Glad you checked  You were scarin' me


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