# Why did the promotional Obsession thread get deleted?



## bluemarlin (Dec 2, 2013)

Hand caught in the cookie jar?


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 2, 2013)

That's what I'm saying!


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## bluemarlin (Dec 2, 2013)

Let's crank it back up here... 
Maybe someone will post the pictures that were on the last one?


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

I didnt think anyone posted anything that was out of line. Maybe the guy who started the thread deleted it and it wasnt a mod.


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## rhbama3 (Dec 2, 2013)

Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines as it pertains to commercial advertising.


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## steeleshark2 (Dec 2, 2013)

Oops, I apologize. I think those pics would have been under the advertising clause which is not allowed even though I posted them for comparison not advertising. I won't make that mistake again.


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 2, 2013)

So back to the question then "what's the difference?"


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## rhbama3 (Dec 2, 2013)

steeleshark2 said:


> Oops, I apologize. I think those pics would have been under the advertising clause which is not allowed even though I posted them for comparison not advertising. I won't make that mistake again.



You can post pic's, opinions, or anything you like. The difference is when someone starts a thread that has a vested interest in a product.


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## steeleshark2 (Dec 2, 2013)

Well K&K is out of business but also no real comparison to the Obsession. The new Xpedition has a similar pattern in the bow but not the same. The numbers also appear close. I have no idea about the cam design differences. I went with Obsession and am currently waiting for my Evolution to come in. As long as the bow fits me, I am good.


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## steeleshark2 (Dec 2, 2013)

rhbama3 said:


> You can post pic's, opinions, or anything you like. The difference is when someone starts a thread that has a vested interest in a product.



Ohh gotcha thanks. I was hoping I was not the one that got his thread closed.


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

steeleshark2 said:


> Oops, I apologize. I think those pics would have been under the advertising clause which is not allowed even though I posted them for comparison not advertising. I won't make that mistake again.



Surely your pictures didn't get it deleted?


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 2, 2013)

If someone took the cam, riser, & limbs off the new Xpedition bow and the new obsession bow laid them down on paper and traced the outside of them, would their be any difference or would they be identical?


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

steeleshark2 said:


> Well K&K is out of business but also no real comparison to the Obsession. The new Xpedition has a similar pattern in the bow but not the same. The numbers also appear close. I have no idea about the cam design differences. I went with Obsession and am currently waiting for my Evolution to come in. As long as the bow fits me, I am good.



The numbers are identical, K&K is gone but the guy who started it, is same guy behind the Xpedition bows.


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## steeleshark2 (Dec 2, 2013)

baseball_hunter#8 said:


> If someone took the cam, riser, & limbs off the new Xpedition bow and the new obsession bow laid them down on paper and traced the outside of them, would their be any difference or would they be identical?










Similar not exact. I got this pic from someone else.


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## arob542 (Dec 2, 2013)

baseball_hunter#8 said:


> So back to the question then "what's the difference?"



They will carry themselves to the stand, nock their own arrows, aim themselves, and track the deer after it shoots one. Obsession bows better hurry out and get you one.


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## bluemarlin (Dec 2, 2013)

arob542 said:


> They will carry themselves to the stand, nock their own arrows, aim themselves, and track the deer after it shoots one. Obsession bows better hurry out and get you one.




zzzzzzz.
That's all you got?


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## SWWTV (Dec 2, 2013)

Like I always have said shoot them head to head with the New Obsession.


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

steeleshark2 said:


> Similar not exact. I got this pic from someone else.



None of this means that Obsession or Xpedition is a bad bow, they both may be great bows. I had no clue about those other two companies until baseballhunters post. After reading his post I looked into the companies a little and it appears the same person is designing both bows. Looking at the specs & the pics you posted, I don't see how there could be any difference in how the two shoot and it appears its the same bow. Every obsession bow I saw had a K&K or Xpedition bow that was basically identical. I thought the Obsession bows appeared to have better graphics and colors than the K&K or the Xpedition that looked just like it.


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## Kris87 (Dec 2, 2013)

Man, y'all let it go.


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## steeleshark2 (Dec 2, 2013)

I am happy with my choice going with Obsession. I really do not care if there is a bow that is close or shoots like it. I also am going with Obsession for the outstanding customer service, warranty, kolorfusion in stormy hardwood, ect. The complete package that other companies do not offer.


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

steeleshark2 said:


> I am happy with my choice going with Obsession. I really do not care if there is a bow that is close or shoots like it. I also am going with Obsession for the outstanding customer service, warranty, kolorfusion in stormy hardwood, ect. The complete package that other companies do not offer.



That's all that matters, shoot straight and enjoy your new bow.


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## Tracker1 (Dec 2, 2013)

Round 2!! 

Awesome!!


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## alligood729 (Dec 2, 2013)

Tracker1 said:


> Round 2!!
> 
> Awesome!!



Almost as good as the "caught poacher" thread....


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 2, 2013)

alligood729 said:


> Almost as good as the "caught poacher" thread....




Did the poacher have a twin too?


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## BOTTEMLINE (Dec 2, 2013)

Tracker 1 the Apache strings are still holding strong with no issues ..I will be in touch as soon as my new bow arrives and thanks again for the strings and the attention to detail ..Anybody wanting a set of high quality strings  hes the man..The search is over..


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## Bow Only (Dec 2, 2013)

baseball_hunter#8 said:


> If someone took the cam, riser, & limbs off the new Xpedition bow and the new obsession bow laid them down on paper and traced the outside of them, would their be any difference or would they be identical?



I see a completely different cam system (hybrid vs binary), different sized cams, different length limbs, different limb pockets, different side profiles, different overall lengths, different cable rods,  different riser bridges, and even different grips.  But other than that, they do look similar.


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## alligood729 (Dec 2, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I see a completely different cam system (hybrid vs binary), different sized cams, different length limbs, different limb pockets, different side profiles, different overall lengths, different cable rods,  different riser bridges, and even different grips.  But other than that, they do look similar.



Funny, but I saw the same thing....


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 2, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I see a completely different cam system (hybrid vs binary), different sized cams, different length limbs, different limb pockets, different side profiles, different overall lengths, different cable rods,  different riser bridges, and even different grips.  But other than that, they do look similar.


 
Your looking at it through rose colored glasses then.


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## alligood729 (Dec 2, 2013)

baseball_hunter#8 said:


> Your looking at it through rose colored glasses then.



Technical, and specification correct, rose colored glasses.....
On the post that was removed, the cams on the white bow strongly resemble the HF cam on the original X Force. Strange huh......


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## dawg2 (Dec 2, 2013)

Just in case anyone missed it:  http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=8295722&postcount=5


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I see a completely different cam system (hybrid vs binary), different sized cams, different length limbs, different limb pockets, different side profiles, different overall lengths, different cable rods,  different riser bridges, and even different grips.  But other than that, they do look similar.



Kevin Strother's reputation and previous law suits are no secret. I'm sure by now he has learned how much of  a difference in measurements that make no difference he can get away with to avoid more legal problems.  Again, both bows may be great but there is no denying the fact they are both designed by Kevin Strothers, have exact same specs, and look almost identical. The only difference I see between the two is hybrid cam and a binary cam.


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

alligood729 said:


> Technical, and specification correct, rose colored glasses.....
> On the post that was removed, the cams on the white bow strongly resemble the HF cam on the original X Force. Strange huh......



Its very likely that's who Kevin got it from, he is no stranger to law suits for patent infringement.


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## arob542 (Dec 2, 2013)

bluemarlin said:


> zzzzzzz.
> That's all you got?



No I was just trying to be modest. It will also wash your hunting clothes, wake you up, brush your teeth, comb your hair, crank the truck and have it warm, lay your scent trail, grunt bleat and rattle, gut the deer and drag it to the truck, and post the kill on woody's. and all that while being the best bow on the planet. And if you can't respect that then you don't know good bows.


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

arob542 said:


> No I was just trying to be modest. It will also wash your hunting clothes, wake you up, brush your teeth, comb your hair, crank the truck and have it warm, lay your scent trail, grunt bleat and rattle, gut the deer and drag it to the truck, and post the kill on woody's. and all that while being the best bow on the planet. And if you can't respect that then you don't know good bows.



What scent does it use for the scent trail?


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## arob542 (Dec 2, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> What scent does it use for the scent trail?



It makes its own.


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## bluemarlin (Dec 2, 2013)

arob542 said:


> No I was just trying to be modest. It will also wash your hunting clothes, wake you up, brush your teeth, comb your hair, crank the truck and have it warm, lay your scent trail, grunt bleat and rattle, gut the deer and drag it to the truck, and post the kill on woody's. and all that while being the best bow on the planet. And if you can't respect that then you don't know good bows.



That's a deal killer.

Looking back, I like to make everything as difficult as possible when it comes to bowhunting.

I'll look into K&K or the Xpedition. It has the same specs without all the baggage.


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## bowbuck (Dec 2, 2013)

arob542 said:


> It makes its own.



Geez you know nothing about it.  It uses BFO.  Duh


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## gsp754 (Dec 2, 2013)

bowbuck said:


> Geez you know nothing about it.  It uses BFO.  Duh



I'm glad someone caught on...... Btw, what's BFO, I have never heard anyone mention that stuff


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> Kevin Strother's reputation and previous law suits are no secret. I'm sure by now he has learned how much of  a difference in measurements that make no difference he can get away with to avoid more legal problems.  Again, both bows may be great but there is no denying the fact they are both designed by Kevin Strothers, have exact same specs, and look almost identical. The only difference I see between the two is hybrid cam and a binary cam.



I can certainly tell they are both KS designs and I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.  You don't see a different profile on each bow? Or a different cable rod system?  Or completely different limb pockets?  The lower half of the bow below the grip looks the same to you?  If it does, I don't think there is much anyone can say to change your opinion.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I can certainly tell they are both KS designs and I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.  You don't see a different profile on each bow? Or a different cable rod system?  Or completely different limb pockets?  The lower half of the bow below the grip looks the same to you?  If it does, I don't think there is much anyone can say to change your opinion.



What is your affiliation with Obsession bows?


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> What is your affiliation with Obsession bows?


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## Ancient Obsession (Dec 3, 2013)

For durability, function, and simplicity you can't beat the Ancient Obsession


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> What is your affiliation with Obsession bows?



The owner and I have been friends and hunting buddies for 15 years.  Can you now answer the questions I asked you?


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

Ancient Obsession said:


> For durability, function, and simplicity you can't beat the Ancient Obsession



And the most challenging and fulfilling method of hunting IMO.


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## Ancient Obsession (Dec 3, 2013)




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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> And the most challenging and fulfilling method of hunting IMO.



I agree with you, its on my bucket list. 

As for your question, I answered it a few post above. The only difference I see are a hybrid cam that uses limb stops and a binary cam with limb stops. Everything else you mentioned makes as much difference as painting them 2 different colors or arguing the difference between GMC & Chevrolet. It does not change the specs or function of the bow. It is just a visual difference to save kevin strothers from either company getting mad at him. 
Look, I am not bashing the bow, it may be an excellent bow. I am not the only one who thinks they are the same bow with different cams. You have had this same conversation with a whole lot of other people on every archery forum out there. On one forum you said the only reason you are on there is "to promote obsession archery" and if everyone wants you to stop posting you will but you're tired of people bashing Obsession. I don't think I am the only one who thinks that every post about Obsession bows is coming from someone with something to gain.  Its well camouflaged because a simple screen name doesn't tell anyone who sells them, who is their class 5 promoter, who is the owners buddy, or who just likes to bow hunt and wants to share a positive experience. That is what has led is to where we are now, and people finding out about a another bow that is extremely similar. I hope Obsession does well and I hope every one who buys ones enjoys every shot they take with it. I am only suspicious of the bows designer (as should anyone who is ever within 100 yards of him) and all the post that are coming from people connected to the company. When claims are made like " if you just shoot it you will buy it, it's that good!" What do you tell the guy who drives 100 miles to shoot one and then doesn't like it or finds out it doesn't shoot any better than the bow he already has? Do you tell him "uhh well, you gotta find what fits you and feels good in your hand?" 
Not one person could answer my question on the last thread about what make the bow unique and what sets it apart from any other bow.


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## bluemarlin (Dec 3, 2013)

^Excellent post.


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> I agree with you, its on my bucket list.
> 
> As for your question, I answered it a few post above. The only difference I see are a hybrid cam that uses limb stops and a binary cam with limb stops. Everything else you mentioned makes as much difference as painting them 2 different colors or arguing the difference between GMC & Chevrolet. It does not change the specs or function of the bow. It is just a visual difference to save kevin strothers from either company getting mad at him.
> Look, I am not bashing the bow, it may be an excellent bow. I am not the only one who thinks they are the same bow with different cams. You have had this same conversation with a whole lot of other people on every archery forum out there. On one forum you said the only reason you are on there is "to promote obsession archery" and if everyone wants you to stop posting you will but you're tired of people bashing Obsession. I don't think I am the only one who thinks that every post about Obsession bows is coming from someone with something to gain.  Its well camouflaged because a simple screen name doesn't tell anyone who sells them, who is their class 5 promoter, who is the owners buddy, or who just likes to bow hunt and wants to share a positive experience. That is what has led is to where we are now, and people finding out about a another bow that is extremely similar. I hope Obsession does well and I hope every one who buys ones enjoys every shot they take with it. I am only suspicious of the bows designer (as should anyone who is ever within 100 yards of him) and all the post that are coming from people connected to the company. When claims are made like " if you just shoot it you will buy it, it's that good!" What do you tell the guy who drives 100 miles to shoot one and then doesn't like it or finds out it doesn't shoot any better than the bow he already has? Do you tell him "uhh well, you gotta find what fits you and feels good in your hand?"
> Not one person could answer my question on the last thread about what make the bow unique and what sets it apart from any other bow.


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 3, 2013)

So have we determined what innovations are credited to this company? Or is their line an accumulation of other manufacturers products and / or designs? If there are actual innovations, can someone please list them without being defensive? I honestly would like to know.


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## Kris87 (Dec 3, 2013)

Ramey Jackson said:


> So have we determined what innovations are credited to this company? Or is their line an accumulation of other manufacturers products and / or designs? If there are actual innovations, can someone please list them without being defensive? I honestly would like to know.



I think if you researched technologies being used in the Archery industry, you'd find a lot of the major companies didn't invent the "thing" they're most noted for.  Hoyt, for instance, is known for their hybrid cam systems.  They didn't invent it, I believe Darton may have, but they've perfected it better than others in my opinion.  I'm not sure who holds the patent for the first one cam, maybe Mathews, but obviously many other manufacturers have a great one cam system.  Same with carbon risers....Hoyt has that on lockdown now, but they weren't the first to do it.  Lots of shared technologies, and lots of companies paying patent money to use other's designs.  

As far as what Obsession has invented...I have no idea.


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## kbuck1 (Dec 3, 2013)

Ramey Jackson said:


> So have we determined what innovations are credited to this company? Or is their line an accumulation of other manufacturers products and / or designs? If there are actual innovations, can someone please list them without being defensive? I honestly would like to know.



Why does it matter what innovations they came up with? Do you buy a new car based on the innovations that particular company came up with? Or do you buy the one that you like best and that you think will serve your purpose best? I dont have an obsession bow and I may not ever own one. Its likely that my next new bow purchase will be an obsession but Im not 100 percent sure. I may have to go by a bear bow since they came out with the compound bow first. Lol. Im just not sure why some people are upset because it favors a bow another company has. Why does that matter? Now, as far as your question goes, have you ever seen a bow with that exact cam? If not, then theres your innovation.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

kbuck1 said:


> Why does it matter what innovations they came up with? Do you buy a new car based on the innovations that particular company came up with? Or do you buy the one that you like best and that you think will serve your purpose best? I dont have an obsession bow and I may not ever own one. Its likely that my next new bow purchase will be an obsession but Im not 100 percent sure. I may have to go by a bear bow since they came out with the compound bow first. Lol. Im just not sure why some people are upset because it favors a bow another company has. Why does that matter? Now, as far as your question goes, have you ever seen a bow with that exact cam? If not, then theres your innovation.



It matters because it is being marketed as a the best bow ever made and that everyone who shoots it will buy it. Now when a claim like that is made, I think its justifiable to question what's special and want to know the innovation behind it? Heck even if there is no new innovation, what previous innovations have been mastered? The claims that have been made are what have caused the questions.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

I just wish all of you would find something else to do rather than bash this bow company.  I have honestly shot and owned every bow manufacturer that you can name, with that said I am buying an obsession next week and letting my carbon element go.  I sell alcohol for a living and have nothing to do with obsession so it must shoot pretty dang good to pull me across.  How about all you complainers put some money on the table come tournament season and let's hash it out that way.


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## bluemarlin (Dec 3, 2013)

I think a few are tired of the marketing sleight of hand posts over and over on here. Don't over sell it and definitely quit shoving it down our throats thinking everyone believes it.


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> I agree with you, its on my bucket list.
> 
> As for your question, I answered it a few post above. The only difference I see are a hybrid cam that uses limb stops and a binary cam with limb stops. Everything else you mentioned makes as much difference as painting them 2 different colors or arguing the difference between GMC & Chevrolet. It does not change the specs or function of the bow. It is just a visual difference to save kevin strothers from either company getting mad at him.
> Look, I am not bashing the bow, it may be an excellent bow. I am not the only one who thinks they are the same bow with different cams. You have had this same conversation with a whole lot of other people on every archery forum out there. On one forum you said the only reason you are on there is "to promote obsession archery" and if everyone wants you to stop posting you will but you're tired of people bashing Obsession. I don't think I am the only one who thinks that every post about Obsession bows is coming from someone with something to gain.  Its well camouflaged because a simple screen name doesn't tell anyone who sells them, who is their class 5 promoter, who is the owners buddy, or who just likes to bow hunt and wants to share a positive experience. That is what has led is to where we are now, and people finding out about a another bow that is extremely similar. I hope Obsession does well and I hope every one who buys ones enjoys every shot they take with it. I am only suspicious of the bows designer (as should anyone who is ever within 100 yards of him) and all the post that are coming from people connected to the company. When claims are made like " if you just shoot it you will buy it, it's that good!" What do you tell the guy who drives 100 miles to shoot one and then doesn't like it or finds out it doesn't shoot any better than the bow he already has? Do you tell him "uhh well, you gotta find what fits you and feels good in your hand?"
> Not one person could answer my question on the last thread about what make the bow unique and what sets it apart from any other bow.



To honestly answer your question, I've never seen anyone that wanted to buy a new bow and shot an Obsession and didn't buy it.  I know they won't all buy them, but I've never seen one not.  Obsession's are very smooth shooters and pretty dang fast.  They draw and hold as good or better than the Elites with more speed.  Shoot one and then you can give us your perspective.

As for the bashing, a lot of people bash Obsession because Kevin Strother designs bows for them.  These people don't know Kevin or the circumstances behind his past transgressions.   I do know Kevin and I do know the circumstances behind what has happened in the past.  You guys know the internet version of what happened, not what actually happened.  It's not my place to inform everyone about that.  I give my honest opinion about the bows and BFO for that matter, even if many of you think my opinion is biased.  I just tell people to shoot them head to head against any bow and then decide for themselves.  I don't think you guys would tell anyone any different.


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> I just wish all of you would find something else to do rather than bash this bow company.  I have honestly shot and owned every bow manufacturer that you can name, with that said I am buying an obsession next week and letting my carbon element go.  I sell alcohol for a living and have nothing to do with obsession so it must shoot pretty dang good to pull me across.  How about all you complainers put some money on the table come tournament season and let's hash it out that way.



Not one post has bashed the company or the bow.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

Then stop acting like little school girls.  If. what he is posting bothers you then go read post at the campfire or gun hunting forum.  Nobody is forcing you to read what anyone is posting.  The 4 of you bickering must be the same folks that can't figure out the doe day situation in December.  Let's start arguing about how closely a savage looks like a ruger if looks only matter.


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## baseball_hunter#8 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> Then stop acting like little school girls.  If. what he is posting bothers you then go read post at the campfire or gun hunting forum.  Nobody is forcing you to read what anyone is posting.  The 4 of you bickering must be the same folks that can't figure out the doe day situation in December.  Let's start arguing about how closely a savage looks like a ruger if looks only matter.



Are you serious? you came into this thread and replied telling us if we don't like something don't read it, right? You don't find that ironic? up until you joined in we were having a civil discussion.


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> Then stop acting like little school girls.  If. what he is posting bothers you then go read post at the campfire or gun hunting forum.  Nobody is forcing you to read what anyone is posting.  The 4 of you bickering must be the same folks that can't figure out the doe day situation in December.  Let's start arguing about how closely a savage looks like a ruger if looks only matter.



Perhaps you should read and adhere to what you just wrote.


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## Kris87 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> To honestly answer your question, I've never seen anyone that wanted to buy a new bow and shot an Obsession and didn't buy it.  I know they won't all buy them, but I've never seen one not.



Don't watch me shoot one then, cause I'd be the first.  

Seriously, I'm sure they shoot well.  Or at least feel good on the shot.  All the two track Binaries I've shot are super quiet, and pretty dead in hand.  The Elite E35 I shot the other week was crazy dead in the hand.  I'm sure Obsessions feel pretty close.  Just gonna take a lot for me to shoot something without a yoke system.  

Now, back to the original ranting.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

Haha the 2 that I was referring to just spoke up.  Did one of the obsession crew take your ole lady's from you or something???  I was just tired of you guys saying, "show me the difference, show me the difference, show me the difference".  You can not deny that you sound like little school girls arguing over who's BF looks better.  If you can't get it off your mind then go shoot one.


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 3, 2013)

kbuck1 said:


> Why does it matter what innovations they came up with? Do you buy a new car based on the innovations that particular company came up with? Or do you buy the one that you like best and that you think will serve your purpose best? I dont have an obsession bow and I may not ever own one. Its likely that my next new bow purchase will be an obsession but Im not 100 percent sure. I may have to go by a bear bow since they came out with the compound bow first. Lol. Im just not sure why some people are upset because it favors a bow another company has. Why does that matter? Now, as far as your question goes, have you ever seen a bow with that exact cam? If not, then theres your innovation.



I was just curious, that's all. So according to you, they invented their cam...great, thanks for the info. As I've said before, my only purpose for a bow is to kill animals. I'm not an industry pro like most of you guys. I honestly don't think my questioning was out of line. Actually, I (and many others) have learned a few things throughout this thread (and the one that got yanked) about the Obsession bow line.


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## mattech (Dec 3, 2013)

Well, now the waterfowl forum is back open I guess this forum will be next. Lol


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> Haha the 2 that I was referring to just spoke up.  Did one of the obsession crew take your ole lady's from you or something???  I was just tired of you guys saying, "show me the difference, show me the difference, show me the difference".  You can not deny that you sound like little school girls arguing over who's BF looks better.  If you can't get it off your mind then go shoot one.



Again, reread you're post. Who is acting like a child? If you can read, go back and look at my posts. They are not derogatory by any stretch of the imagination. Have you been indulging in what you sell?


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## Huntinfool (Dec 3, 2013)

All this, and deer season is still IN!  Normally insanity like this is reserved for those months leading UP to the season when everyone is losing their minds.

Let me clear this up for everybody.  There is no such thing as "the best bow on the market".  

I love my Elite with a burning passion and will likely buy another this year.  But I had two friends draw it the other day who both hated it.  Every person is different in what they are looking for in a bow.  Obsession is a very good bow....as is Hoyt...as is Elite...as is Bowtech...as is on and on and on.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

Ramey Jackson said:


> Again, reread you're post. Who is acting like a child? If you can read, go back and look at my posts. They are not derogatory by any stretch of the imagination. Have you been indulging in what you sell?



Actually I don't drink so that is kind of hard to do. I didn't say you said anything derogatory.  Everyone of you asked that guy what the difference was and he answered every time.  Every single bow on the market looks similar to the next.  I can honestly say that I have never owned a single bow(PSE, Hoyt, Mathews, Bowtech) that has shot nearly as good as the obsession.  I think the only thing any person talking about an obsession bow is asking is to bring any bow to the table and compare them.   That's not to much to ask is it?


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

I just noticed not a single one of you remotely took up the offer for putting money on the table in tournament season.  I am going to contact Easton to see if they will file a lawsuit against Carbon Express since their arrows look so darn similar.


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## Kris87 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> I just noticed not a single one of you remotely took up the offer for putting money on the table in tournament season.



What's the offer?


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

Your call, I am down for whatever and I don't even have an obsession yet.  Maybe I can win enough money to buy 2 of them.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> To honestly answer your question, I've never seen anyone that wanted to buy a new bow and shot an Obsession and didn't buy it.  I know they won't all buy them, but I've never seen one not.  Obsession's are very smooth shooters and pretty dang fast.  They draw and hold as good or better than the Elites with more speed.  Shoot one and then you can give us your perspective.
> 
> As for the bashing, a lot of people bash Obsession because Kevin Strother designs bows for them.  These people don't know Kevin or the circumstances behind his past transgressions.   I do know Kevin and I do know the circumstances behind what has happened in the past.  You guys know the internet version of what happened, not what actually happened.  It's not my place to inform everyone about that.  I give my honest opinion about the bows and BFO for that matter, even if many of you think my opinion is biased.  I just tell people to shoot them head to head against any bow and then decide for themselves.  I don't think you guys would tell anyone any different.



I am not saying you're lying, but making a claim like that you can't expect anyone to not be skeptical. There's a place called governors gun club that carries Obsession, I shoot in their archery range a lot. Great people down there, the archery pro will set up any of the bows and let you shoot them. I'm still shooting a Bowtech


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## Kris87 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mike7474 said:


> Your call, I am down for whatever and I don't even have an obsession yet.  Maybe I can win enough money to buy 2 of them.



Dang, you don't even have it yet?  I'm bowing out if you have that much confidence.  

I'll buy you a beer though if you ever beat me head to head in Hunter class though.   

I'm just in the thread because I'm bored at work.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> Dang, you don't even have it yet?  I'm bowing out if you have that much confidence.
> 
> I'll buy you a beer though if you ever beat me head to head in Hunter class though.
> 
> I'm just in the thread because I'm bored at work.



Haha how about I just bring the beer(Since I know someone that can get it) and you guys can drink in my glory.  I am up for hunter class.


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## Mudfish (Dec 3, 2013)

What do these high tech bows cost these days?


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## arob542 (Dec 3, 2013)

I still don't understand how any of you can't see the innovation in the bow? It is shooting 350+fps very smooth draw, high letoff, quite and a solid back wall, there is not another bow on the market that offers all of those features in one bow. i can't think of one anyway if you know of one I would love to hear it. I think that's pretty innovative.


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> I am not saying you're lying, but making a claim like that you can't expect anyone to not be skeptical. There's a place called governors gun club that carries Obsession, I shoot in their archery range a lot. Great people down there, the archery pro will set up any of the bows and let you shoot them. I'm still shooting a Bowtech



That's fair.  I just say shoot them head to head.  I shoot most new bows every year.  Some have better attributes than others.  Obsession's seem to do most things well.


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## pasinthrough (Dec 3, 2013)

Mudfish said:


> What do these high tech bows cost these days?



Hoyt, Mathews, PSE and a few other flagship bows are $1,000 +

Obsessions flagship is under $900


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> That's fair.  I just say shoot them head to head.  I shoot most new bows every year.  Some have better attributes than others.  Obsession's seem to do most things well.



I didnt look last time i was there to see if the new one is in stock, i will check next time i go. If its there i will certainly shoot it and give my honest opinion. Thanks for taking the time to reply, i hope you see where i am coming from and dont think my goal is to bash you or Obsession Archery.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mudfish said:


> What do these high tech bows cost these days?



The pleasure and debates these new high tech bows bring us is priceless!! Go get you one and join in on the fun, fighting, & measuring contest...... you wont regret it!


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## Mudfish (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> The pleasure and debates these new high tech bows bring us is priceless!! Go get you one and join in on the fun, fighting, & measuring contest...... you wont regret it!


My current bow is a Pearson Hornet VX. My problem is not money it's justification. You guys seem to know these bows inside an out. Tell me why these newer model bows are $800-$1000 better than what i currently harvest deer with. I come from the "if it ain't broke don't fix it"school.


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## pasinthrough (Dec 3, 2013)

Mudfish said:


> My current bow is a Pearson Hornet VX. My problem is not money it's justification. You guys seem to know these bows inside an out. Tell me why these newer model bows are $800-$1000 better than what i currently harvest deer with. I come from the "if it ain't broke don't fix it"school.



To a lot of guys, it's not worth it.  Old bows kill, but people want new and improved stuff.  I buy a new bow and accessories each year because I want to, not because I need to.

Some of the best deals going are a one year old bow for sale on AT or in the Swap and Sell.



It's like playing pool.  Some have custom cues and some don't play enough or well enough to tell the difference between a new custom one and an old one one off the rack.


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## kbuck1 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mudfish said:


> My current bow is a Pearson Hornet VX. My problem is not money it's justification. You guys seem to know these bows inside an out. Tell me why these newer model bows are $800-$1000 better than what i currently harvest deer with. I come from the "if it ain't broke don't fix it"school.



There not a 1000 dollars better. None of them are. Like pasinthrough stated, most people just likebto buy new or upgrade every so often.  Im actually hunting with my wifes old target bow. Its a hoyt ultra elite that I changed to spiral cams and only getting 56 to 57 pounds out of it. Hunted with it the last three seasons now.  But, I do want a new one this next season for what ever reason. I dont need one but its fun to get new things some times. From a hunters stand point the only thing better about the newer bows is quietness.  Other than that in my opinion it doesnt matter.  People talk about how dead a bow feels.no hand shock. None of the bows on the market for years now have had enough shock nor vibration to matter. Its not like the vibration or shock from a bow causes bodily harm.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

kbuck1 said:


> There not a 1000 dollars better. None of them are. Like pasinthrough stated, most people just likebto buy new or upgrade every so often.  Im actually hunting with my wifes old target bow. Its a hoyt ultra elite that I changed to spiral cams and only getting 56 to 57 pounds out of it. Hunted with it the last three seasons now.  But, I do want a new one this next season for what ever reason. I dont need one but its fun to get new things some times. From a hunters stand point the only thing better about the newer bows is quietness.  Other than that in my opinion it doesnt matter.  People talk about how dead a bow feels.no hand shock. None of the bows on the market for years now have had enough shock nor vibration to matter. Its not like the vibration or shock from a bow causes bodily harm.




Ha, i was just telling someone the same thing the other day. I cant remember a single bow i have ever shot that had any noticeable vibration in the hand when i shot it. Even 20 years ago, i didnt shoot a bow that had hand shock or vibration.
I have shot some loud bows, thats one thing that has seriously improved over the years.


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## rhbama3 (Dec 3, 2013)

we've gone about as far with this thread as we can go.


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## APPierce0628 (Dec 3, 2013)

rhbama3 said:


> we've gone about as far with this thread as we can go.



Not to mention. Some people just like to argue.


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## alligood729 (Dec 3, 2013)

pasinthrough said:


> Hoyt, Mathews, PSE and a few other flagship bows are $1,000 +
> 
> Obsessions flagship is under $900



The Full Throttle is a little over a grand, but the DNA and DNA SP are $899....


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> Ha, i was just telling someone the same thing the other day. I cant remember a single bow i have ever shot that had any noticeable vibration in the hand when i shot it. Even 20 years ago, i didnt shoot a bow that had hand shock or vibration.
> I have shot some loud bows, thats one thing that has seriously improved over the years.



I thought the same way too until I shot bows head to head.  I considered the Mathews Switchback to be the ultimate hunting bow.  I took close to 50 critters with it in the 5 or 6 years I hunted with it.  With a Switchback, I was a bad man.  When I got an Obsession and shot the bows head to head, the difference in hand shock and vibration was staggering.  How could my favorite hunting bow of all time have so much more vibration and be almost 30 fps slower?  I don't know, but it is.  That's why I say shoot them side by side.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I thought the same way too until I shot bows head to head.  I considered the Mathews Switchback to be the ultimate hunting bow.  I took close to 50 critters with it in the 5 or 6 years I hunted with it.  With a Switchback, I was a bad man.  When I got an Obsession and shot the bows head to head, the difference in hand shock and vibration was staggering.  How could my favorite hunting bow of all time have so much more vibration and be almost 30 fps slower?  I don't know, but it is.  That's why I say shoot them side by side.



How fast have you seen the Obsession shooting a 400 grain arrow at 29" draw? I take every manufacturers IBO ratings with a grain of salt. My Insanity shoots slower than my Destroyer 350 and the Insanity has an IBO of 355, my destroyer is by far my favorite bow.


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## Bow Only (Dec 3, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> How fast have you seen the Obsession shooting a 400 grain arrow at 29" draw? I take every manufacturers IBO ratings with a grain of salt. My Insanity shoots slower than my Destroyer 350 and the Insanity has an IBO of 355, my destroyer is by far my favorite bow.



I don't know that one, speed doesn't really matter to me.  Some of the dealers could answer that I'm sure.  The Evolution seems to be coming in 5 to 8 fps faster than the Knightmare.


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## gsp754 (Dec 3, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I don't know that one, speed doesn't really matter to me.  Some of the dealers could answer that I'm sure.  The Evolution seems to be coming in 5 to 8 fps faster than the Knightmare.



I like a happy medium, maybe leaning a little more towards speed. I have never liked light arrows and have never liked heavy arrows. For whitetail, i hunt with the same size arrow and broadhead no matter what bow i shoot. I shoot a 400 grain arrow (past 3 years its been a carbon express maixma hunter), thats just what i like and have no plans of changing my arrow. So the faster i can make it go the more energy & momentum i will have. Right now i am at 91 KE & .57 momentum.


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## Mike7474 (Dec 3, 2013)

28.5 draw 70lb Evolution shooting a 425g arrow hit 302. Just an FYI


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## HEADHUNTER11 (Dec 3, 2013)

I have had 2 obsession bows.  The SS and the lethal force both were nice bow but had small issues with both. The price of the bow and the problems I had with them just didn't seem right.  I'm now back to shooting Matthews and will stay on that train.  Obsession bow do shoot great though.  I also killed a dove at 40 yards with the lethal force so they are accurate too they are just not for me.


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## Kris87 (Dec 3, 2013)

The only thing that gets me with bows is most shooters don't really know what they're getting.  If everyone bought a bow that "felt" great when shooting into the shop target at 5 yards, they'd probably own a  "?" cam bow.   They generally draw smooth, are quiet, and have little shock.  Those traits, while they feel good, don't always translate into good groups, or good tuneability.  I think we can all agree we've had bows that felt pretty good when we shot them, but didn't produce the groups we liked.  That's why so many bows are bought, then sold pretty quickly. 

I can honestly say, I don't particularly care for how my Carbon Matrix feels at full draw.  But dang if I can't shoot the lights out with it.  If I put  some other bows up against it in a "feel" contest, it would lose.  That doesn't make it the worst bow in any way shape or fashion.  I care about where the arrow ends up in the target.  I get a lot of pm's about certain bows and how "jumpy" they feel, or how long they could hold it at full draw...and I don't really have the heart to tell those guys, you're evaluating the wrong things.  Its not always about the draw, or the valley, or the whatever....its about how you shoot it, how it tunes,, etc....Ok, I'm done with my late night bow thoughts.


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## C Cape (Dec 4, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> How fast have you seen the Obsession shooting a 400 grain arrow at 29" draw? I take every manufacturers IBO ratings with a grain of salt. My Insanity shoots slower than my Destroyer 350 and the Insanity has an IBO of 355, my destroyer is by far my favorite bow.




I have setup 5 evolutions so far. The longest draw length has been 28" and 71*. It shot a 431 gr arrow at 301-302 FPS.  I have also setup a 27.5/70* shooting a 441 gr arrow at 292 FPS.


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## killitgrillit (Dec 4, 2013)

C Cape said:


> I have setup 5 evolutions so far. The longest draw length has been 28" and 71*. It shot a 431 gr arrow at 301-302 FPS.  I have also setup a 27.5/70* shooting a 441 gr arrow at 292 FPS.



Geez, I didn't think they were that slow!!!


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## Bow Only (Dec 4, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> The only thing that gets me with bows is most shooters don't really know what they're getting.  If everyone bought a bow that "felt" great when shooting into the shop target at 5 yards, they'd probably own a  "?" cam bow.   They generally draw smooth, are quiet, and have little shock.  Those traits, while they feel good, don't always translate into good groups, or good tuneability.  I think we can all agree we've had bows that felt pretty good when we shot them, but didn't produce the groups we liked.  That's why so many bows are bought, then sold pretty quickly.
> 
> I can honestly say, I don't particularly care for how my Carbon Matrix feels at full draw.  But dang if I can't shoot the lights out with it.  If I put  some other bows up against it in a "feel" contest, it would lose.  That doesn't make it the worst bow in any way shape or fashion.  I care about where the arrow ends up in the target.  I get a lot of pm's about certain bows and how "jumpy" they feel, or how long they could hold it at full draw...and I don't really have the heart to tell those guys, you're evaluating the wrong things.  Its not always about the draw, or the valley, or the whatever....its about how you shoot it, how it tunes,, etc....Ok, I'm done with my late night bow thoughts.



IMO, the accuracy issues with most bows that are tuned properly is in the grip.  Some bows just won't shoot for some people and it's because of the torque applied by the hand.  The variables of hand size, shape and angle of the grip, grip tendencies, etc comes into play on accuracy.  I can see what you're saying.


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## SWWTV (Dec 4, 2013)

If everyone liked Chevy their would be no fords just saying. Most all bow companies make great bows. Me personally I like a good adjustable valley ,solid back wall,smooth on the draw,good speed and accuracy. Levi Morgan I am sure was paid dearly to change companies but I would imagine the dual sync track cam system that he shot behind the scenes before making the switch had to meet up to his expectations so I would say the cam system is very accurate. As for as speed the reports from dealers are that the Evolution is meeting the 345 to 353 IBO depending on crono which vary as much as 3% some dealers say they exceed the IBO. The Obsession Evolution is very smooth. After saying all of that I would test drive all of the Fords and Chevy s


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## MossyCreek (Dec 4, 2013)

Kris87 said:


> The only thing that gets me with bows is most shooters don't really know what they're getting.  If everyone bought a bow that "felt" great when shooting into the shop target at 5 yards, they'd probably own a  "?" cam bow.   They generally draw smooth, are quiet, and have little shock.  Those traits, while they feel good, don't always translate into good groups, or good tuneability.  I think we can all agree we've had bows that felt pretty good when we shot them, but didn't produce the groups we liked.  That's why so many bows are bought, then sold pretty quickly.
> 
> I can honestly say, I don't particularly care for how my Carbon Matrix feels at full draw.  But dang if I can't shoot the lights out with it.  If I put  some other bows up against it in a "feel" contest, it would lose.  That doesn't make it the worst bow in any way shape or fashion.  I care about where the arrow ends up in the target.  I get a lot of pm's about certain bows and how "jumpy" they feel, or how long they could hold it at full draw...and I don't really have the heart to tell those guys, you're evaluating the wrong things.  Its not always about the draw, or the valley, or the whatever....its about how you shoot it, how it tunes,, etc....Ok, I'm done with my late night bow thoughts.





Bow Only said:


> IMO, the accuracy issues with most bows that are tuned properly is in the grip.  Some bows just won't shoot for some people and it's because of the torque applied by the hand.  The variables of hand size, shape and angle of the grip, grip tendencies, etc comes into play on accuracy.  I can see what you're saying.



I agree with both of these. IMO I believe each bow/cam system requires a different grip to get the best performance and forgiveness out of the bow...as said, I believe hand size can play a factor in that as well.


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## SWWTV (Dec 4, 2013)

I agree


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## Theduckhunter13 (Dec 4, 2013)

WOW at this thread!!!! Lets start something that we can all agree on instead..... Can we all agree that Mathews has obviously let everyone go in their research and development center and said hey lets take last years bow and make it 2 inches shorter and then charge everyone $1000 for it!!! Hahaha what the heck is wrong with Mathews these days!? Have they done everything they can do with single cam technology!?


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## Kris87 (Dec 4, 2013)

Theduckhunter13 said:


> Hahaha what the heck is wrong with Mathews these days!? Have they done everything they can do with single cam technology!?



Single cam technology got left behind long ago when string materials improved to the point that the manufacturers could go back to designing more efficient bows without worry of cams getting out of sync.  One cam bows are Mathew's identity.  They're going to have a hard time breaking out of what has propelled them to the top for so long.  I'm not bashing Mathews when I say this, so no one please take it that way......I would rank them dead last in terms of any bow I'd shoot.  Just like that poor fella did in that independent test, then got his franchise yanked.  They will have to jump ship from the one cam band if they want to move forward in the coming years.  Or at least I think so.


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## gsp754 (Dec 4, 2013)

Theduckhunter13 said:


> WOW at this thread!!!! Lets start something that we can all agree on instead..... Can we all agree that Mathews has obviously let everyone go in their research and development center and said hey lets take last years bow and make it 2 inches shorter and then charge everyone $1000 for it!!! Hahaha what the heck is wrong with Mathews these days!? Have they done everything they can do with single cam technology!?



Yes, Mathews has did all you can do with a single cam and apparently gave up after doing so. They are relying on their name to sell bows, and that won't keep them alive forever. They haven't came out with anything new in a long time. I would go buy an obsession before I would a Mathews!


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## Theduckhunter13 (Dec 4, 2013)

Like you said single cam technology is what put them where they are so I can't see them jumping ship from that. I believe they will continue to make a single cam bow every year but more research will be put into the Monster line than the single cam bows. I currently shoot a Monster 7.0 and I do believe the chill is a better bow but I haven't shot the chill or the new chill(whatever it is called). I just don't know if it is better than the latest from bowtech, hoyt, elite because I haven't shot it...... Have to think they'll be putting more research into it in the future though.....


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## arob542 (Dec 4, 2013)

kris87 said:


> single cam technology got left behind long ago when string materials improved to the point that the manufacturers could go back to designing more efficient bows without worry of cams getting out of sync.  One cam bows are mathew's identity.  They're going to have a hard time breaking out of what has propelled them to the top for so long.  I'm not bashing mathews when i say this, so no one please take it that way......i would rank them dead last in terms of any bow i'd shoot.  Just like that poor fella did in that independent test, then got his franchise yanked.  They will have to jump ship from the one cam band if they want to move forward in the coming years.  Or at least i think so.


well said.


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## gsp754 (Dec 4, 2013)

Theduckhunter13 said:


> Like you said single cam technology is what put them where they are so I can't see them jumping ship from that. I believe they will continue to make a single cam bow every year but more research will be put into the Monster line than the single cam bows. I currently shoot a Monster 7.0 and I do believe the chill is a better bow but I haven't shot the chill or the new chill(whatever it is called). I just don't know if it is better than the latest from bowtech, hoyt, elite because I haven't shot it...... Have to think they'll be putting more research into it in the future though.....



I think all the manufacturers have hit a plateau as far as innovation is concerned. I think the future of archery will be making bows carbon or some other material, trying to make the bows look cooler & sexier, and a lot of propaganda and opinion based claims of greatness.


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## Bow Only (Dec 4, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> I think all the manufacturers have hit a plateau as far as innovation is concerned. I think the future of archery will be making bows carbon or some other material, trying to make the bows look cooler & sexier, and a lot of propaganda and opinion based claims of greatness.



I have to disagree with this.  There is still some innovation out there, it's just not ready for the archery market.  It will be in a couple of years.  Bows are also only about 85 to 86% efficient.  I can see that number gradually increasing to 90%.  That's 10-12 fps right there.  Materials will change and companies with good designers will continue to improve on bows as they have in the past.


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## gsp754 (Dec 4, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> I have to disagree with this.  There is still some innovation out there, it's just not ready for the archery market.  It will be in a couple of years.  Bows are also only about 85 to 86% efficient.  I can see that number gradually increasing to 90%.  That's 10-12 fps right there.  Materials will change and companies with good designers will continue to improve on bows as they have in the past.



I hope you're right, but there is only so much more physics will allow.


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## keowens31 (Dec 5, 2013)

Innovation is controled by money and the market. Could we have a 400fps bow THAT IS DEAD IN THE HAND, SMOOTH DRAW, AND LIGHT, darn right. Could you market it to the general public to make a company profit, NO. We are only at a plateau of marketing, not of innovation. This is a never ending thread, could we do this or that, who's innovation are you using or fringing upon. The archery world is no different than any other business. All Manufacture's in the archery world use technology or patnent's from other company's. Im no guru on any of this, so dont get fancy with me and ask me to explain to much, because you will be beating a dead horse in the mouth. Rex Darlington (DARTON) holds a ton of patents that are used in most bows today, if not all, so does High Country Archery(Roller Gaurd) sound familiuar. So i guess i am catching the tail end of the heated discussion, so if the fire starts rolling again, I apologize 
 Obsession bows are no different. When a guy says shoot it you will buy it, thats his opinion. Maybe you will buy it, maybe you want. It's called marketing. We're free to do that. What makes there bows better you ask, heck i dont know, shoot one and find out for your self. I have had a few Obsession bows, shoots great. I have also had my far share of other bows as well that shoot well also. I shoot what i want, honestly to me there is not a tons of difference in any of the bows made today. There all darn good, considering where we were at 20 years ago. Some just fit me better than others. I am sure thats just how i am built and the way i prefer to shoot. OK, I'm done, tired of typing. This is just my opinion for today, i'm sure the world is a better place now. Carry on gentelmen!!!


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## Ramey Jackson (Dec 5, 2013)

keowens31 said:


> Innovation is controled by money and the market. Could we have a 400fps bow THAT IS DEAD IN THE HAND, SMOOTH DRAW, AND LIGHT, darn right. Could you market it to the general public to make a company profit, NO. We are only at a plateau of marketing, not of innovation. This is a never ending thread, could we do this or that, who's innovation are you using or fringing upon. The archery world is no different than any other business. All Manufacture's in the archery world use technology or patnent's from other company's. Im no guru on any of this, so dont get fancy with me and ask me to explain to much, because you will be beating a dead horse in the mouth. Rex Darlington (DARTON) holds a ton of patents that are used in most bows today, if not all, so does High Country Archery(Roller Gaurd) sound familiuar. So i guess i am catching the tail end of the heated discussion, so if the fire starts rolling again, I apologize
> Obsession bows are no different. When a guy says shoot it you will buy it, thats his opinion. Maybe you will buy it, maybe you want. It's called marketing. We're free to do that. What makes there bows better you ask, heck i dont know, shoot one and find out for your self. I have had a few Obsession bows, shoots great. I have also had my far share of other bows as well that shoot well also. I shoot what i want, honestly to me there is not a tons of difference in any of the bows made today. There all darn good, considering where we were at 20 years ago. Some just fit me better than others. I am sure thats just how i am built and the way i prefer to shoot. OK, I'm done, tired of typing. This is just my opinion for today, i'm sure the world is a better place now. Carry on gentelmen!!!



Beautiful bow in your avatar!


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## keowens31 (Dec 5, 2013)

Thanks... CCape dolled it up with his strings..


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## C Cape (Dec 5, 2013)

keowens31 said:


> Thanks... CCape dolled it up with his strings..



One of my favorites we have done!


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## 1crazybowhunter (Dec 5, 2013)

keowens31 said:


> innovation is controled by money and the market. Could we have a 400fps bow that is dead in the hand, smooth draw, and light, darn right. Could you market it to the general public to make a company profit, no. We are only at a plateau of marketing, not of innovation. This is a never ending thread, could we do this or that, who's innovation are you using or fringing upon. The archery world is no different than any other business. All manufacture's in the archery world use technology or patnent's from other company's. Im no guru on any of this, so dont get fancy with me and ask me to explain to much, because you will be beating a dead horse in the mouth. Rex darlington (darton) holds a ton of patents that are used in most bows today, if not all, so does high country archery(roller gaurd) sound familiuar. So i guess i am catching the tail end of the heated discussion, so if the fire starts rolling again, i apologize
> obsession bows are no different. When a guy says shoot it you will buy it, thats his opinion. Maybe you will buy it, maybe you want. It's called marketing. We're free to do that. What makes there bows better you ask, heck i dont know, shoot one and find out for your self. I have had a few obsession bows, shoots great. I have also had my far share of other bows as well that shoot well also. I shoot what i want, honestly to me there is not a tons of difference in any of the bows made today. There all darn good, considering where we were at 20 years ago. Some just fit me better than others. I am sure thats just how i am built and the way i prefer to shoot. Ok, i'm done, tired of typing. This is just my opinion for today, i'm sure the world is a better place now. Carry on gentelmen!!!



oooohhhhhhweeeeeee!!!! Sing it again maxine !!


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## bluemarlin (Dec 10, 2013)

Another Obsession thread bites the dust..

That's 2 in the last 12 hours that I've read.

My vote says we do need a subforum... but my opinion doesn't hold much weight around here.

I know some will say, "see a thread that you don't think you want to look at, don't open it! Imagine that". -Come on now... That would be boring. Besides, it helps a public forum to discuss both sides of everything and not make certain threads like infomercials. Right? 
Hidden agendas are transparent and regardless of who's trying to sell what to who the mods do a great job here.


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## HEADHUNTER11 (Dec 10, 2013)

Don't worry about missing one im sure PLENTY more will get started.


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## gsp754 (Dec 10, 2013)

HEADHUNTER11 said:


> Don't worry about missing one im sure PLENTY more will get started by the same group



I fixed it for you.


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## Nicodemus (Dec 10, 2013)

Gentlemen, per the rules, advertising is not allowed. It goes into this in the rules.

Also, this is not a public forum. It is a private one. Again, check the rules.


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## gsp754 (Dec 10, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> Gentlemen, per the rules, advertising is not allowed. It goes into this in the rules.
> 
> Also, this is not a public forum. It is a private one. Again, check the rules.



I don't think he is complaining, pretty sure he is saying good job to the moderators for removing propaganda.


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## BowanaLee (Dec 10, 2013)

Hey Nick
My thread about a famous person changing sponsors disappeared.  Was that considered advertising too ? 
Its big news when Levi Morgan changes. Just want to stay on the up and up.


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## Nicodemus (Dec 10, 2013)

gsp754 said:


> I don't think he is complaining, pretty sure he is saying good job to the moderators for removing propaganda.




That was for everybody.




bowanna said:


> Hey Nick
> My thread about a famous person changing sponsors disappeared.  Was that considered advertising too ?
> Its big news when Levi Morgan changes. Just want to stay on the up and up.




If it was deleted, it was looked over and discussed by the Staff, and considered advertising.


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## Onlybow (Dec 11, 2013)

bowanna said:


> Hey Nick
> My thread about a famous person changing sponsors disappeared.  Was that considered advertising too ?
> Its big news when Levi Morgan changes. Just want to stay on the up and up. :
> 
> Famous person , I don't think he qualifies for famous in any Catagory.


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## watermedic (Dec 11, 2013)

pasinthrough said:


> Hoyt, Mathews, PSE and a few other flagship bows are $1,000 +
> 
> Obsessions flagship is under $900



Uhh, No!


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## watermedic (Dec 11, 2013)

I believe that the Full Throttle is 90% efficient. 370 fps is pretty dang awesome!

And yes it is over a grand.


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## Kris87 (Dec 11, 2013)

watermedic said:


> Uhh, No!



Agreed.  Hoyt's flagship aluminum bows aren't over a grand either.  Sure the carbons are, but if you compare aluminum bows, they're not, and priced right with everyone else.


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## deerehauler (Dec 21, 2013)

I see people in this thread that are part of the obsession team


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## SWWTV (Dec 21, 2013)

Very interesting a new discovery people posting on Obsession shoot one oh no I notice people posting on PSE,Hoyt and Bow tech shoot those bows also hmmm I think you are on to something wow how did you figure that out lol


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