# Reading animals intentions



## Lukikus2 (Jan 14, 2013)

Can you?

Wether it's 5 lbs or 1500?

Just askin'


----------



## SonyaS (Jan 15, 2013)

Lukikus2 said:


> Can you?
> 
> Wether it's 5 lbs or 1500?
> 
> Just askin'



Depends on the species. Dogs yeah, experience and also reading about  things like calming signals.

Most animals pretty well, typically the serious stuff like  fear/pending aggression is obvious to anyone that has half a brain (except large pet birds like parrots, I can't read them which means they are scary).

Why did you introduce this topic? Guessing there was a reason, you have a story to tell!


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 15, 2013)

Lukikus2 said:


> Can you?
> 
> Wether it's 5 lbs or 1500?
> 
> Just askin'





Sometimes, but not with any degree of certainty.


----------



## JustUs4All (Jan 15, 2013)

Sometimes and with some animals.  Some dogs are easy to read, earthworms not so much.


----------



## Lukikus2 (Jan 15, 2013)

SonyaS said:


> Depends on the species. Dogs yeah, experience and also reading about  things like calming signals.
> 
> Most animals pretty well, typically the serious stuff like  fear/pending aggression is obvious to anyone that has half a brain (except large pet birds like parrots, I can't read them which means they are scary).
> 
> Why did you introduce this topic? Guessing there was a reason, you have a story to tell!



Alot of folks never pay much attention to animals, as much as they should, to know the animal and it's ways. Not as much ignorance but not giving enough interaction with the animal to learn it's demeanor. 

I'm with you on the birds though 

Speaking of dogs.

The little miniature doberman that acts like it's going to eat your ankles off! Is it? 

The russian ridgeback that is at a full growling, snapping run at full speed toward you. Is it going to have you for lunch?

The german shepard that is snapping his jaws like an alligator at you because you got by him going to the front door without him seeing you and he has to protect his domain?

Or when they have that look like a little kid that just did something wrong and you find where they relieved themself behind the sofa.  



Nicodemus said:


> Sometimes, but not with any degree of certainty.



I don't believe that.


----------



## SonyaS (Jan 15, 2013)

Lukikus2 said:


> Alot of folks never pay much attention to animals, as much as they should, to know the animal and it's ways. Not as much ignorance but not giving enough interaction with the animal to learn it's demeanor.



Funny...just recently had a very similar discussion on another forum regarding animal behavior and dogs.  Topic came up on the subject of "dogs just snapping" meaning dogs going suddenly crazy and biting for "no real reason". 

Dogs don't just "go crazy" for no reason. For those folks that have and care for dogs here are a couple of very insightful videos that lay it out clearly (subtle signs like "looking guilty" are actually your dog trying to relay clear messages). 

Warning! The woman in the first video is odd and has an annoying voice BUT the info is somewhat clearly explained. Dog calming signals, licks, sideways eye glances, yawning, signs that say "I don't want conflict". 

Dogs use them a LOT with people and other dogs as a way of avoiding conflict/fights/unpleasantness, when your dog chews something up and you come home and notice "the dog looks guilty" that means the dog is saying "please no conflict over what I did". Same thing when a dog is stressed during training, or being annoyed by the kids, a sign that things are getting too tense and not okay.



And as a followup video...watch a police dog give multiple "calming signals" (i.e. lots of lip licking and sideways glances) when under stress before biting a reporter in the face:


----------



## SGADawg (Jan 15, 2013)

I usually have a fair read on dogs, a good read on hogs and a really good read on cattle.  Nobody knows what cats are plotting!


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 16, 2013)

A horse can teach you this skill !


----------



## sea trout (Jan 17, 2013)

shakey gizzard said:


> A horse can teach you this skill !



agree, horses are good to read. 
most all animals are good to watch and read and we can understand alot.

i have a hard time with mules.
i've only been around them for a little while but they have me on edge because i find them very very hard to read.

either they don't have/ show much or i just don't see it.


----------



## dawg2 (Jan 17, 2013)

Most of the time.  I have a pretty good read on dogs.  

On that vid with the reporter and police dog above, I saw that coming.  He wasn't real bright.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 17, 2013)

sea trout said:


> agree, horses are good to read.
> most all animals are good to watch and read and we can understand alot.
> 
> i have a hard time with mules.
> ...



Thats not the message/energy to send! Thats wat the reporter with the shepherd was thinkin! What you project has a lot to do with what you'll "read"!


----------



## Lukikus2 (Jan 17, 2013)

SonyaS said:


> Funny...just recently had a very similar discussion on another forum regarding animal behavior and dogs.  Topic came up on the subject of "dogs just snapping" meaning dogs going suddenly crazy and biting for "no real reason".
> 
> Dogs don't just "go crazy" for no reason. For those folks that have and care for dogs here are a couple of very insightful videos that lay it out clearly (subtle signs like "looking guilty" are actually your dog trying to relay clear messages).
> 
> ...



Correct. They do give off subtle hints as to what is coming next. Thanks for posting that. I wasn't able to listen to the first video but it looked as if she had it down pat.

As far as the second video. 

The LEO broke the cardinal rule of letting a stranger get down on the dogs level. To a dog that makes all things equal and you are no longer looked at as a possible Alpha. Your in his land on his terms then. Allowing the reporter to put his face in the dogs face was an invitation for a bite. 9 out of 10 times that will be the result. You see all to often on animal shows where someone will think an animal is cute and cudly then they stick their face in the animals and get bit. I have an 80+ pound pit I have to watch folks around because they think he is so cute and want to hug him. 

Here is one of my worst run-ins with dogs

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=7139319&postcount=17

.


----------



## aka rotten (Jan 17, 2013)

When a bear grins at me ,i walk the other way!


----------



## sea trout (Jan 17, 2013)

aka rotten said:


> When a bear grins at me ,i walk the other way!



ya thats a sure sighn


----------



## Lukikus2 (Jan 17, 2013)

SGADawg said:


> I usually have a fair read on dogs, a good read on hogs and a really good read on cattle.  Nobody knows what cats are plotting!



Oh. Cats can be so much fun but you have to remember they are playing with a feline brain. Funny how they will come running when you call them but to train them to sit or roll over is out of the question. You get that look from them that says "If you wanted a dog you should have got one".

They are the one animal I've found that you can train to make mischeivious though. If you sneek up on them while they are asleep and frighten them enough times they are going to turn the tables on you, whenever and where ever. 



shakey gizzard said:


> A horse can teach you this skill !



100% correct. Lets talk about some biting, kicking, bucking and running out from under you as soon as you get your boot toe in the stirrup. 



sea trout said:


> agree, horses are good to read.
> most all animals are good to watch and read and we can understand alot.
> 
> i have a hard time with mules.
> ...



First time I was ever thrown was off a mule at 30 mph. He had two speeds. Stop and full speed where ever he wanted to go. He went right, I went left. Hit my head on a rock and was dazed for a few but it didn't hurt the rock. Last time I was on a mule.



dawg2 said:


> Most of the time.  I have a pretty good read on dogs.
> 
> On that vid with the reporter and police dog above, I saw that coming.  He wasn't real bright.



Neither one was.



shakey gizzard said:


> Thats not the message/energy to send! Thats wat the reporter with the shepherd was thinkin! What you project has a lot to do with what you'll "read"!



So true. Animals can feel, if not smell your energy/vibes and are reading you every bit if not more than you are them. Dogs especially (and horses) have a uncanny ability to sense wether you are friend or foe, scared or confident and a Alpha/master or threat.

Disclaimer:
I'm no expert on this stuff. Just like to talk about it since no folks around me have a clue and think I'm nuts when I bring the subject up.


----------



## Lukikus2 (Jan 17, 2013)

aka rotten said:


> When a bear grins at me ,i walk the other way!



I'm gone long before that happens. 

Can't shoot them down here.


----------



## David Parker (Jan 17, 2013)

True about dogs and getting eye-level.  My JRT is a healthy happy boy but about 1% of the time he turns psycho and it is usually from some type of "action" from another person.  He also pees on everything.  What is that saying about him (Is he communicating that he owns the world, the world is his?)  When I say everything, I mean other dogs, people, his food bowl.  Is he touched?

side note:

What about monkeys and squatches?


----------



## David Parker (Jan 17, 2013)

Hounds of Hades 

that was funny Luki


----------



## SonyaS (Jan 18, 2013)

Lukikus2 said:


> The LEO broke the cardinal rule of letting a stranger get down on the dogs level. To a dog that makes all things equal and you are no longer looked at as a possible Alpha.



Getting on "their level" isn't a problem but sticking your face into a dogs face is a rude and aggressive gesture (unless of course the dog likes the person and the gesture is a welcomed part of a mutual display of affection). The police dog bit the guy BECAUSE the guy acted "alpha" and leaned over in a dominating way, the cop even says that in the video. 

A child or stranger getting "in their face" in an affectionate way while the dog tolerates it is not mutual affection, but it explains why kids get bit in the face, kids are the most likely to stick their face into a dog's face.


----------



## dawg2 (Jan 18, 2013)

SonyaS said:


> Getting on "their level" isn't a problem but sticking your face into a dogs face is a rude and aggressive gesture (unless of course the dog likes the person and the gesture is a welcomed part of a mutual display of affection). The police dog bit the guy BECAUSE the guy acted "alpha" and leaned over in a dominating way, the cop even says that in the video.
> 
> A child or stranger getting "in their face" in an affectionate way while the dog tolerates it is not mutual affection, but it explains why kids get bit in the face, kids are the most likely to stick their face into a dog's face.



He did three things wrong:

1) Face in dogs "space"
2) Hands around neck
3) Assuming dominant role on back of dog

Stupid, stupid, stupid.  The officer should have known better if he was a canine cop.

My cur would have done the same thing to a stranger.  The ONLY thing that saved that guy some serious plastic surgery is the dog was young.  A 2-3 YO police trained GSD would have destroyed his face.


----------



## SonyaS (Jan 18, 2013)

dawg2 said:


> He did three things wrong:
> 
> 1) Face in dogs "space"
> 2) Hands around neck
> ...



I agree, I would not be at all surprised if this was the cop's first attack trained police K9, or maybe first K9 partner period.

The dog being young did save the reporter and it also explains why the dog looks so nervous, keeps looking at the handler for direction.

Our Jones County PD has 4 tracking/drug dogs but no attack trained dogs so novice K9 cop handlers are probably common in some police departments.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 18, 2013)

SonyaS said:


> Getting on "their level" isn't a problem but sticking your face into a dogs face is a rude and aggressive gesture (unless of course the dog likes the person and the gesture is a welcomed part of a mutual display of affection). The police dog bit the guy BECAUSE the guy acted "alpha" and leaned over in a dominating way, the cop even says that in the video.
> 
> A child or stranger getting "in their face" in an affectionate way while the dog tolerates it is not mutual affection, but it explains why kids get bit in the face, kids are the most likely to stick their face into a dog's face.



the reporter fer sure "physically " acted alpha, but did not mentally! That uncertainty, was the trigger!


----------



## SonyaS (Jan 18, 2013)

shakey gizzard said:


> the reporter fer sure "physically " acted alpha, but did not mentally! That uncertainty, was the trigger!



Uncertainty can trigger, fear can trigger because fear means unstable, if a stranger showed up and started acting nervous fearful without explaining YOU would feel on edge too and suspect the person could be dangerous! 

Having said that confident hard core dogs simply will not tolerate strangers acting alpha while violating their boundaries. That is what protection/guardian/police dogs are all about -- they engage and DEFEAT the alpha threat.

Another video...I am sharing my favorites:



(Fyi when the dog bites his handler, afterwards the handler says something like "He wants it bad, let's give him some more").


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 18, 2013)

SonyaS said:


> Uncertainty can trigger, fear can trigger because fear means unstable, if a stranger showed up and started acting nervous fearful without explaining YOU would feel on edge too and suspect the person could be dangerous!
> 
> Having said that confident hard core dogs simply will not tolerate strangers acting alpha while violating their boundaries. That is what protection/guardian/police dogs are all about -- they engage and DEFEAT the alpha threat.
> 
> ...



I was referring  more to the "common" dog!  Talk about agility champ! awesome video!


----------



## Lukikus2 (Jan 31, 2013)

With a horse.

Watch thier ears.

I always bond with the animal before riding anyway. Kind of a mutual agreement. It's your ride, right?

Ears pointed forward it's enjoying the company.

Ears flipping around, it hasn't decided. (Or your acting hesitant and making it nervous, the animal has to know you feel comfortable with it.)

Ears back and gumming you? Time for a back hand before you get bit. I know a guy that got his ear bitten off by a horse. I'm gonna learn from his mistake. 

Ears laid back?

It ain't liking what's going on. Hopefully it's on a lead tied to a pole but never let one get the best of you or they will try you over and over.

Saddling?

If they blow up when your cinching the strap to begin with you know they already have some plans for you. Like a short ride. LOL

Had a geilding that would follow me around like a puppy dog and a mare that was plum crazy and would turn on you like a wolverine backed into a den of pit bull salamanders.


----------



## DukTruk (Feb 4, 2013)

ALL animals communicate with body language (people do too, we just aren't as in tune with it).  All animals will give you clues that they are about to "lose it" if you watch for them.  Granted, in some animal vs human attacks, the humans can't see it coming.

So yes, an animals intentions can be read.


----------



## Buck Nasty (Feb 6, 2013)

A wagging tail on a dog does not mean it is necessarily happy.....


----------



## blood on the ground (Feb 6, 2013)

I could read granddaddys roaster like a book... that sucker whooped me  more times than i like to admit to.


----------



## GAFLAjd (Apr 3, 2013)

Flat handed pats on the head, dogs ears go back. Might well been on a bill board!


----------



## Lukikus2 (Aug 13, 2013)

Cats 

Got these two. Brother and sister. Where do they want to lay instead of the new bed? Cats 

They are in cage because the juvie hawks flying around and they will not be insiders.


----------



## Lukikus2 (Aug 13, 2013)

Okay! The fuzzy bed is a turnoff! 

Flipped it over to the most uncomfortabilist side and here you go. Cats


----------



## king killer delete (Sep 20, 2013)

I trained dogs for years and I was never good at it. Some dogs I could read like a book but not all. I had a buddy that was also a trainer and it was like he could read  a dogs mind. I have seen him predict what another handlers dog would do in a retreiver field trail. thats why he ran and won sevral national retreiver championships


----------



## MFOSTER (Sep 23, 2013)

An old man told me when I was young that anything that will breed his own mama and eat his own crap are very unpredictable no matter how well you think you know him


----------



## Lukikus2 (Sep 27, 2013)

MFOSTER said:


> An old man told me when I was young that anything that will breed his own mama and eat his own crap are very unpredictable no matter how well you think you know him



Yup.


----------

