# Did Jesus say he was "God"?



## dawg2 (Jan 4, 2010)

What do you think about this?

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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes.


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## dawg2 (Jan 4, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Yes.



Source?  Verses?


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## robbie the deer hunter (Jan 4, 2010)

Jesus is the son of god.


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## Israel (Jan 4, 2010)

Since the first thing he tries to undercut is John's revelation...he therefore undercuts all of the testimony.
For if John was wrong in Chapter One, then why should we believe anything he wrote afterward...such as chaps 15, 17?
We are the ones who print the words in red, but the manuscript, though inspired, was penned by John.


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## Tony Two Tone (Jan 4, 2010)

The deity of Jesus Christ is vital to all that He did. If He is not the unique Son of God, equal with the Father, then His work at Calvary loses its redemptive significance.

Here is one verse for starters… In John 8:58, Jesus takes the name of the Jehovah God of the Old Testament, “Before Abraham was, “I Am.” The unbelieving Jewish leaders present understood what He said and regarded it as blasphemy. Jesus later used the term “I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and _because You, being a Man, make Yourself God._"  (John 10:30-33) 

Peace,


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## Mako22 (Jan 4, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Source?  Verses?



Bible


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## dawg2 (Jan 4, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Bible



Which one?


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2010)

Fee-fi-fo- fum! I smell a troll!

Dawg,you know as well as I do,just exactly who Jesus is,and who God is.

P.S. - Sorry - I don't "do" video's!


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## Lowjack (Jan 4, 2010)

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 

In Hebrew , Eiyeh Ha Abba Aleph, And he said to Moshe, Eiyeh Asher Eiyeh,(Iam that IaM} When Caifas told him in the name of God tell us if you are the Messiah ? He said "Eiyeh", when the temple guards went to arrest him and they ask who he was? he said " Eiyeh".
He is the great Eiyeh.
Too bad the brother who was there was not well versed as most pastors are not today.
The last time I was invited  on TV with a muslim Mula and a Rabbi they both quit before the show was over,LOL


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one."
> 
> In Hebrew , Eiyeh Ha Abba Aleph, And he said to Moshe, Eiyeh Asher Eiyeh,(Iam that IaM} When Caifas told him in the name of God tell us if you are the Messiah ? He said "Eiyeh", when the temple guards went to arrest him and they ask who he was? he said " Eiyeh".
> He is the great Eiyeh.
> ...



That's the first one that came to my mind.


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## Tony Two Tone (Jan 4, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Too bad the brother who was there was not well versed as most pastors are not today.
> The last time I was invited  on TV with a muslim Mula and a Rabbi they both quit before the show was over,LOL




Sometimes I feel mailing this book to some of those pastor’s…


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## BCPerry (Jan 5, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
> 
> Mt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, *God with us.*
> Jesus said:
> ...




Thank you for doing what the OP asked for.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

Off the top of my head (I'll have to look up the reference, though most probably know of it) I remember that when the disciples asked "show us the Father, and it suffices us", Jesus said, "Have I been with you so long and you still dont know me" (or something to that affect)

Also, who raised Jesus?    God the Father?   Jesus said He would do it Himself, but also that God would do it.   

Jesus also forgave sin; something that only God could do.

Also, in Hebrews I think, there is a reference to an OT scripture that reads something like, "Of the Son he says, Thy throne, Oh God, is above the heavens..."


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

let me add too that Jesus was crucified for blasphemy.   "You, being a man, claim to be God".

There's no way to read the NT and not conclude that Jesus was claiming to be God.   He was killed for it.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> let me add too that Jesus was crucified for blasphemy.   "You, being a man, claim to be God".
> 
> There's no way to read the NT and not conclude that Jesus was claiming to be God.   He was killed for it.



Very good point.  This exact point was brought up in the message I heard on Sunday morning at my church.

Funny how the Jews of the day realized it, but the JWs of today can't get it.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Very good point.  This exact point was brought up in the message I heard on Sunday morning at my church.
> 
> Funny how the Jews of the day realized it, but the JWs of today can't get it.



JW's have a Greek Interlinear translation of the bible, and for John 20:28 their Greek states...."the Lord of me and the God (Ho Theos) of me".     "The God" is applied to Jesus even in their bible, but they say Thomas was practically saying "OMG"...in shock.    Have you ever said "My lord and My God" when something surprised you?   LOL


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

Trinity ?


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

The word 'trinity' is not actually in the bible, but is used to give title to the biblical principle that God has three parts.

'Rapture' is not in the bible either but is used to describe the I Thessalonians event.

In Genesis God says "let US make man in OUR image".   Obviously, He was not alone.

The NT also lists God as the creator of all things, and Jesus as the creator of all things.  (not all OTHER things as JW's bible inserts errantly).   Either Jesus was God, or there is a discrepancy.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 5, 2010)

1 Tim 3:16-4:1

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


KJV


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## Lowjack (Jan 5, 2010)

Those are all good points but the OP asks had jesus himself ever claimed to be God, and the answer is yes.


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## crackerdave (Jan 5, 2010)

Perhaps even a resounding YES!


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## SelahV (Jan 5, 2010)

*Jesus is God*

That was good Lowjack. Jesus created all things.
If you all never read A.W. Tozer books, check some of them out. Also John Piper.


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## Lowjack (Jan 5, 2010)

If you all want to refute Muslims you really have to get into the word and historical facts , such as the refute that The Gospel of John Was Not Written By John, something going around since the 18th Century, Muslims also like the doctrine of the Alogians who were Christian Heretics and refuted the assertion that Christ was God.If you don't have schooling in this area you will look ignorant as that "pastor" ??
And I question the title pastor and origins of the video , since it looks more like a set up to make the Iman look good,IMO


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

I 'm still waiting on proof that God is Jewish.


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## WTM45 (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> I 'm still waiting on proof that God is Jewish.



Well, they were the one who invented the concept as so defined by their historical documentation.  Why not?


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> I 'm still waiting on proof that God is Jewish.



I think that is a Mulligan....           He will probably retract that comment.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> I think that is a Mulligan....           He will probably retract that comment.



I don't think so . He has posted that as truth several times.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> I 'm still waiting on proof that God is Jewish.



x2 then     lol

He must have been talking about God the Son being born Jewish...


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## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> x2 then     lol
> 
> He must have been talking about God the Son being born Jewish...



He would've only been half jewish then.


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## dawg2 (Jan 5, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Fee-fi-fo- fum! I smell a troll!
> 
> Dawg,you know as well as I do,just exactly who Jesus is,and who God is.
> 
> P.S. - Sorry - I don't "do" video's!



It is a thought provoking video.  It is used by the Muslim "Apologetics" and makes some valid points.  Just wanted to see what the "thinkers" on here had to say.


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## dawg2 (Jan 5, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> If you all want to refute Muslims you really have to get into the word and historical facts , such as the refute that The Gospel of John Was Not Written By John, something going around since the 18th Century, Muslims also like the doctrine of the Alogians who were Christian Heretics and refuted the assertion that Christ was God.If you don't have schooling in this area you will look ignorant as that "pastor" ??
> And I question the title pastor and origins of the video , since it looks more like a set up to make the Iman look good,IMO



Exactly.  You have to know history.  And of course it was setup to make the Imam look good.  Propaganda only works if it does what is intended: Misdirect and put doubt in one's mind about their current beliefs.


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## Lowjack (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> I 'm still waiting on proof that God is Jewish.


The Commandments of God which he gave to Moses are the very principle on which G-d exists and acts, he expects those who love him to stand by those comandments and follow them as he does , in fact God was Jewish before even Israel existed.IMHO
As he declares "Be holy as Iam Holy", The Torah is the ultimate instrument of Holiness.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Study the following verses. I hope this will answer your question
> 
> Jesus is God. He was made flesh and born of a virgin. Was Mary a Jew?? How about Joseph, who the angel called, thou son of David" in Mt. 1:20.
> 
> ...





That's all fine for JC. I will concede that he was at least half Jewish. Now show me where it says God is Jewish.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> The Commandments of God which he gave to Moses are the very principle on which G-d exists and acts, he expects those who love him to stand by those comandments and follow them as he does , in fact God was Jewish before even Israel existed.IMHO
> As he declares "Be holy as Iam Holy", The Torah is the ultimate instrument of Holiness.




For starter s, I thought God IS. NO principles that cause him to exist or act. He is and can be whatever he chooses. No where in the bible does it say ''God is a Jew''. If the Torah  does say this ,please give me a section that I can peruse in English.

''The Torah is the ultimate instrument of Holiness.'' Since the Bible and the Torah are not the same ,where do you think the bible is lacking ?
Should Christians be studying the Torah instead of the OT ?


Bandy , you got any questions ?

rj ,how 'bout you ?


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

OK . dawg2 ,how about it ?


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## crackerdave (Jan 5, 2010)




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## christianhunter (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes!!!


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## Lowjack (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> For starter s, I thought God IS. NO principles that cause him to exist or act. He is and can be whatever he chooses. No where in the bible does it say ''God is a Jew''. If the Torah  does say this ,please give me a section that I can peruse in English.
> 
> ''The Torah is the ultimate instrument of Holiness.'' Since the Bible and the Torah are not the same ,where do you think the bible is lacking ?
> Should Christians be studying the Torah instead of the OT ?
> ...



The Torah was removed from your Bible ? LOL
The Torah are the first 5 books of the Old Testament Earl. LOL
Since God gave his precepts To Israel and they became known as Jews , only a God who believes in what he preaches could have done that, therefore he is the Jew Of Jews, The King of Kings and Lord Of Lords.
When Yeshua was Crucified , Pilato ordered a titled in 3 languages to be placed in top of the cross,

By the way The Inscription in hebrew which read Yeshua King of The Jews, if you take the First hebrew letters of each word, it will spell the tetagramon or YHWV or Yahwev(jehova), that is why the Jews protested and wanted it removed, and Pilot refused saying ,"what I have written is written"


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

**k9** said:


> You missed the point that *Jesus Christ is God,* and God was manifest in the flesh; that is Jesus, God with us.
> I noticed that you showed  disrespect for Jesus Christ who is God by referring to him as JC.
> This same Lord Jesus Christ is the only person who is able to save you.
> 
> ...





Take it as you will .No disrespect was intended. As far as telling me about not understanding ,that is a Christian cop out. Unsupportable as well.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> The Torah was removed from your Bible ? LOL
> The Torah are the first 5 books of the Old Testament Earl. LOL
> Since God gave his precepts To Israel and they became known as Jews , only a God who believes in what he preaches could have done that, therefore he is the Jew Of Jews, The King of Kings and Lord Of Lords.
> When Yeshua was Crucified , Pilato ordered a titled in 3 languages to be placed in top of the cross,
> ...



So are you saying that both are identical ? What am I to make of the other books in the OT ?

He is a Jew solely because ho isolated a group of people and called them Jews ? That  is a bit of a stretch.
Pilate's sign on Jesus Christ's cross is an even bigger stretch. 
As big a deal as the difference in Jews and Gentiles is made of throughout the bible And considering the Torah is by and for Jews ,some where some one would have recorded that God was a Jew . And if it really made a difference if God was Black ,yellow ,red or ,Caucasian. I am sure he would have had it put in his book. 
The bible said man was made in God's image. I am not Jewish. Nor is a great percentage of the world. And if you go back as far as Noah, we are all Gentile or all Jew.

Sure is lonely on this one.


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## dawg2 (Jan 5, 2010)

earl said:


> OK . dawg2 ,how about it ?



Saying Jesus was a Jew is like saying the English founded the United States of America. We are  all US citizens, but we are not English.

Christ came to fulfill the Old Law. Jesus is God and founded His Church, based on the fulfillment of Jewish Law. In other words, the new replaced the old. Also, Jesus extended His Church to all people, Jew, Gentile, pagan, etc. as one. We are all Christians, disciples of the Messiah.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

That sure is a long way around the barn to avoid saying something definitive. I am a firm believer in being blunt. He is or he isn't. As far as fulfilling the Jewish law ,it was my understanding that Christ was given as the final sacrifice because man was unable to keep the Jewish law. 
If ,as you say, we are all as one ,then God would also have to be as one ,neither Jew,Gentile,Pagan ,etc.


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## earl (Jan 5, 2010)

k9 ,I went back and reread your entire post to make sure that I had not overlooked something. No where in your post does it say that God is Jewish. That may be your interpretation of the scripture you quoted ,but it is not stated. Based on your analysis ,I could do a little reverse engineering and claim that Jesus was human because he was born of a human woman. Therefore at best he could only be half of a God. I doubt if I would get very far with that. 

I don't remember asking a question. I took exception to Lj's post that God was Jewish.  The scriptures are open to interpretation . Any time a parable is told it will mean different things to different people. I have yet to see a bible that is divided into literal passages versus parables ,etc. It would still be questioned if it were written.

You used 32 verses ,from several different books, and each and every one has to be read in context and are still open for interpretation.

''How about Joseph, who the angel called, thou son of David" in Mt. 1:20.'' What about him ? What did he have to do with the conception or birth ? Nada
Mt 1:23    A name 
Joh 10:30    Obama is also of his father. And his mother. Is he more African or Caucasion ?

Do you see what I mean about interpretation ? I see nothing in your post as definitive.


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## formula1 (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re:*

To the OP, Yes!

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

earl said:


> For starter s, I thought God IS. NO principles that cause him to exist or act. He is and can be whatever he chooses. No where in the bible does it say ''God is a Jew''. If the Torah  does say this ,please give me a section that I can peruse in English.
> 
> ''The Torah is the ultimate instrument of Holiness.'' Since the Bible and the Torah are not the same ,where do you think the bible is lacking ?
> Should Christians be studying the Torah instead of the OT ?
> ...




I'm no Torah expert, but I've read somewhere that to see the beauty in the Torah, one needs to be well versed in Arabic....which makes it a 'gift' only to the well-educated in Arabic.  

Also, since the NT pre-dates Islam by ~600 years, I think I'll stick with the earlier references to Jesus.


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## dawg2 (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> I'm no Torah expert, but I've read somewhere that to see the beauty in the Torah, one needs to be well versed in Arabic....which makes it a 'gift' only to the well-educated in Arabic.
> 
> Also, since the NT pre-dates Islam by ~600 years, I think I'll stick with the earlier references to Jesus.



Did you mean to say "Hebrew?"


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Earl,
> 
> In Mt. 1:1-Mt1:21 The generation of Jesus is given of his Jewish family. Jesus would not have been included in a Jewish generation if Jesus had not been Jewish. Get that point.
> That should be plain to any reader. Also, Mary and Joseph came down through the line of David, and Jesus was a righful King of the Jews.
> ...





I'm not real sure why you keep dragging Joseph into this . If the bible is correct ,Joseph had nothing to do with the heritage of Jesus. 
Obama's mother and father didn't match. He could call himself black or white. In fact he is bi-racial. He is also president.


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

Bandy, you OK this morning ?


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

LOL    posting from poor memory.    I stand corrected....and the wiser!   LOL


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

Unless the Hebrew language describes some thing that is unavailable to ALL other languages, the mystical claim is pure ''hogwash'' . At first glance there are many medical terms I don;t know. However I am intelligent enough to find a source that explains them to me in terms I can understand. I think Hebrew is even available on Rosetta Stone. Hard to keep the mystery going when translations are available to all.

But then again I think that excuse is used for deflectiion of the original statement.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> I'm no Torah expert, but I've read somewhere that to see the beauty in the Torah, one needs to be well versed in Arabic....which makes it a 'gift' only to the well-educated in Arabic.
> 
> Also, since the NT pre-dates Islam by ~600 years, I think I'll stick with the earlier references to Jesus.



OMG, I just realized my mistake!   I was thinking "Quran"....Islam's bible....      It was early in the morning....Diet Green Tea hadn't taken affect yet!


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

earl said:


> So are you saying that both are identical ? What am I to make of the other books in the OT ?
> 
> He is a Jew solely because ho isolated a group of people and called them Jews ? That  is a bit of a stretch.
> Pilate's sign on Jesus Christ's cross is an even bigger stretch.
> ...



I can understand you being lonely on this one as well as the whole Bible, there is no stretch on any of those, it is right there plain to see, I can understand you not understanding the YHWV inscription, most don't realize it because they do not study Hebrew.

It is like starting a professional team say called the Eagles and the founder not being called an eagle.
God Founded Judaism on Mount Sinai, very hard to believe he has a double standard and he does not follow his own laws ?? You are trying to shoot a 12 Ga in a 20 Ga Shotgun,IMO


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> I'm no Torah expert, but I've read somewhere that to see the beauty in the Torah, one needs to be well versed in Arabic....which makes it a 'gift' only to the well-educated in Arabic.
> 
> Also, since the NT pre-dates Islam by ~600 years, I think I'll stick with the earlier references to Jesus.



You mean Aramaic ?


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

earl said:


> Unless the Hebrew language describes some thing that is unavailable to ALL other languages, the mystical claim is pure ''hogwash'' . At first glance there are many medical terms I don;t know. However I am intelligent enough to find a source that explains them to me in terms I can understand. I think Hebrew is even available on Rosetta Stone. Hard to keep the mystery going when translations are available to all.
> 
> But then again I think that excuse is used for deflectiion of the original statement.



Yes the Hebrew Language holds many understandable things which cannot be translated in any other languages , specially into English.
There is no translation from Hebrew to english, only transliterations from Hebrew to English, not quite the same.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> You mean Aramaic ?




LOL   I think.   The Quran's beauty can only be understood by someone with a deep understanding of Aramaic, correct?  

Torah--Hebrew.   Quran--Aramaic.    Got it


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## dawg2 (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> OMG, I just realized my mistake!   I was thinking "Quran"....Islam's bible....      It was early in the morning....Diet Green Tea hadn't taken affect yet!



Well then, that mistake is even funnier


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## dawg2 (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> LOL   I think.   The Quran's beauty can only be understood by someone with a deep understanding of Aramaic, correct?
> 
> Torah--Hebrew.   Quran--Aramaic.    Got it



No

Torah--Hebrew
Qur'an--Arabic


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

GRRRRRRRR

i'll Google it from now on!


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> There is no translation from Hebrew to english, only transliterations from Hebrew to English, not quite the same.



Oh boy....here we go again.


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## dawg2 (Jan 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....here we go again.



...giggle..giggle


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....here we go again.



Until you get it through your thick skull, LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Until you get it through your thick skull, LOL
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament



Funny LJ...you should read through stuff before you blindly link to it.  I skimmed the wiki link you provided and didn't find the word "transliteration"

Here's an excerpt from the above link.

The Tanakh is written in Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic, and is therefore also known as the Hebrew Bible (the text of the Jewish Bible is called the Masoretic, after the medieval Jewish rabbis who compiled it). The Masoretic Text (i.e. the Hebrew text revered by medieval and modern Jews) is only one of several versions of the original scriptures of ancient Judaism, and no manuscrips of that hypothetical original text exist. In the last few centuries before Christ Jewish scholars produced a translation of their scriptures in Greek, the common language of the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire since the conquests of Alexander the Great. This translation, known as the Septuagint, forms the basis of the Orthodox and some other Eastern Old Testaments. The Old Testaments of the Western branches of Christianity were originally based on a Latin translation of the Septuagint known as the Vetus Latina, this was replaced by Jerome's Vulgate, which continues to be highly respected in the Catholic Church, but Protestant churches generally follow translations of a scholarly reference known as the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. In 1943, Pope Pius XII issued the Divino Afflante Spiritu which allows Catholic translations from texts other than the Vulgate, notably in English the New American Bible.



giggle.....giggle....


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## Dominic (Jan 6, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Did Jesus say he was "God"?</EMBED>


 


Lowjack said:


> Those are all good points but the OP asks had jesus himself ever claimed to be God, and the answer is yes.


 
Actually the OP asked if Jesus ever said he was "God" not if he ever claimed to "God". 

While Jesus may a have made allusion to the fact that he was God and even part of the Trinity, he never comes out and says "I am God".


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## gtparts (Jan 6, 2010)

Semantics, Dom.

John 10:30 (King James Version)

 "I and my Father are one." 

Folks can dance around this all they care to, but Jesus did not leave himself any wiggle room with this one and He sure did not mean for us to find ambiguity in his statement.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 6, 2010)

Matthew 16:15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 

Actually, I've thought of this quite a bit.   How do you think it would have sounded if He had walked around proclaiming, "I am God, follow me!"????    He knew saying it wouldn't carry as much weight as showing it.


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Funny LJ...you should read through stuff before you blindly link to it.  I skimmed the wiki link you provided and didn't find the word "transliteration"
> 
> Here's an excerpt from the above link.
> 
> ...



translation of their scriptures in Greek

 The Old Testaments of the Western branches of Christianity were originally based on a Latin 
translation[/COLOR] of the Septuagint known as the Vetus Latina, this was replaced by Jerome's Vulgate, which continues to be highly respected in the Catholic Church, but Protestant churches generally follow translations of a scholarly reference known as the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia

Where does it say Hebrew To English translation ?
I stand my ground as a Hebrew Teacher that Hebrew cannot be readily translated to a Savage Language, The closest translation would be to Latin or Spanish and still 30% would be transliteration.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 6, 2010)

This is a subject that is understood very well by most Christians.  
But it becomes one of those unexplainable natures of God when we try to explain it.

"When you see Me, you see My Father".
"If you know Me, you know the Father".
"I and the Father are one."

God commanded the creation; yet His Son was the agent of creation.
Jesus is God in the flesh; yet Jesus prayed to the Father.

Jesus is God; God and the Son are One; yet they are seperate.

It is one of those things that require a "light-bulb" experience.  You think and think and read and read and pray and pray and suddenly one day you say, "Oh yeah, I get it."


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Where does it say Hebrew To English translation ?
> I stand my ground as a Hebrew Teacher that Hebrew cannot be readily translated to a Savage Language, The closest translation would be to Latin or Spanish and still 30% would be transliteration.



It doesn't.  However, you posted a link talking about the OT being a Transliteration and then the link posted has no mention of Transliteration.  Why the link above?

Oh...and fwiw...don't think that because your our resident online hebrew teacher, everyone else on this board is ignorant on the subject.


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> It doesn't.  However, you posted a link talking about the OT being a Transliteration and then the link posted has no mention of Transliteration.  Why the link above?
> 
> Oh...and fwiw...don't think that because your our resident online hebrew teacher, everyone else on this board is ignorant on the subject.


Ignorant about Hebrew ? Yes
Ignorant what a translation and a transliteration is  ? Yes

The Link Above is not talking about translation from Hebrew to English which is what I said.
You misunderstood.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 6, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> This is a subject that is understood very well by most Christians.
> But it becomes one of those unexplainable natures of God when we try to explain it.
> 
> "When you see Me, you see My Father".
> ...


 
Well said.
My faith has been on the path of caring little about the small inconsequential stuff that seems to trip up some, while trying to stay focused on the bigger picture.  What you are talking about is that picture, thanks for sharing.


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## Slewfoot (Jan 6, 2010)

*Jesus=God*

Yes to the main question.  He is the Lord Almighty, God in the Flesh and Lord of Lords.

Jesus says that He is God...through and through, I'm good with that as that is what Faith is all about.  

Without faith it is impossible to please God and/or reside with God eternally.  Without faith one cannot truly believe this truth.  Therefore there is no point arguing about the issue.  Either you believe it or you don't...no amount of scripture will convince IMHO.

Jesus said that even if one comes back from the dead, they will still not believe...hmmmm


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Point #1)  Jesus was a Jew by the linage account in Matthew and in Luke.
> 
> Don't run other rabbits, stick to the point I made with the generation of Jesus Christ in Mt. 1-21.
> 
> ...




Aye , aye , my captain, my captain.

Point #1 Half Jewish at best . Through Mary.
Point # 2 I did not disagree.
Joseph.  There is the problem. Joseph was not Jesus's biological father . He was a surrogate . His lineage back to David is immaterial . 

''It just so happens that Joseph and Mary had to be of the same tribe in order to fulfill a requirement of the law, and for the linage to the throne of David.''

This may have mattered for Joseph and Mary to be united. As far as Jesus's birth is concerned ,either Joseph was the biological father, in which case we wouldn't be having this discussion. or Joseph AND Mary circumvented the law by not proclaiming God as the biological father. One way or the other the law and lineage were not kept. 
 Joseph's role would appear to be to give the birth of Jesus the appearance of legitimacy .

Part of the problem as I see it is that you are defining Jesus by Human standards. Did you ever consider the possibility that Jesus , while being God in the flesh, was not even part human, But literally God in the flesh ?


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Ignorant about Hebrew ? Yes
> Ignorant what a translation and a transliteration is  ? Yes
> 
> The Link Above is not talking about translation from Hebrew to English which is what I said.
> You misunderstood.



         Rosettastone.com

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#11 on the list. Right after that pesky GREEK.


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

Merriam Webster 
Main Entry: trans·lit·er·ate
Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-Ëˆli-tÉ™-ËŒrÄ�t, tranz-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): trans·lit·er·at·ed; trans·lit·er·at·ing
Etymology: trans- + Latin littera letter
Date: 1861

: to represent or spell in the characters of another alphabet

â€” trans·lit·er·a·tion \(ËŒ)tran(t)s-ËŒli-tÉ™-ËˆrÄ�-shÉ™n, (ËŒ)tranz-\ noun 

I cheated . I used an English dictionary but I bet it's the same in Hebrew.


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## crackerdave (Jan 6, 2010)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Matthew 16:15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
> 
> Actually, I've thought of this quite a bit.   How do you think it would have sounded if He had walked around proclaiming, "I am God, follow me!"????    He knew saying it wouldn't carry as much weight as showing it.



Good point,Bandy! The ol' "walkin' the walk,not just talkin' the talk."


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## earl (Jan 6, 2010)

freelang.net
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## crackerdave (Jan 6, 2010)

Now wait a minute earl - is the question "did Jesus call Himself God?" or is it " is God Jewish?" You're making me dizzy.


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## Lowjack (Jan 6, 2010)

earl said:


> Aye , aye , my captain, my captain.
> 
> Point #1 Half Jewish at best . Through Mary.
> Point # 2 I did not disagree.
> ...





My friend you do not understand Jewish Laws and Customs, A person is Jew By Blood when the Mother is a Jew , if the mother is not a Jew the Child must convert at age 13, please stop winging as you go alone, it makes you look very Ignorant

Jewish by birth
According to halakha a child is not Jewish if the child's mother is not Jewish.[13] The ruling is derived from various sources including Deuteronomy 7:1-5, Leviticus 24:10, Ezra 10:2-3.[13]

All branches of Orthodox Judaism and Conservative Judaism today, maintain that the halakhic rules (ie. matrilineal descent) are valid and binding.
A Child is 100% when the mother is Jewish even if the father is not.
While a a child of a male Jew with a non Jewish wife is only 50% Jewish.

Wikipedia

Note: This one of the 3 requirements when applying for Israeli Citizenship.


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## jmharris23 (Jan 7, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Now wait a minute earl - is the question "did Jesus call Himself God?" or is it " is God Jewish?" You're making me dizzy.



Dave is right. The best thing to do here is get back on the original topic, and start a new thread on the Jewish history and background of God/Christ.


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## earl (Jan 7, 2010)

Ya'll can make up all the silly rules you want. You bring the law into this and then say it wasn't the law it was righteousness. Once more you are interpreting the bible to suit your needs. 

One thing you cannot change is biology. If you are half Asian and half Jewish ,you can claim to be whatever you want. But those Asian features will give you away every time. 

k9 ,you keep on interpreting that bible as you want.Just don't fall off when you change your horse in midstream.
Lj , you keep on being mysterious. I am sure you convert hundreds with your snake oil.



Crackerdave , back to you.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 7, 2010)

earl said:


> One thing you cannot change is biology. If you are half Asian and half Jewish ,you can claim to be whatever you want. But those Asian features will give you away every time.


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## gtparts (Jan 7, 2010)

That dawg with the marbles up his nostrils is back.


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## Lowjack (Jan 7, 2010)

earl said:


> Ya'll can make up all the silly rules you want. You bring the law into this and then say it wasn't the law it was righteousness. Once more you are interpreting the bible to suit your needs.
> 
> One thing you cannot change is biology. If you are half Asian and half Jewish ,you can claim to be whatever you want. But those Asian features will give you away every time.
> 
> ...



There is only one snake in here ,I'm Aware of, Mysterious to you perhaps, you throw things out there which are incorrect, my advise is since you know nothing about Judaism or Jewishness or the Law, it is better you ask instead of affirming things which are incorrect.


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## WTM45 (Jan 7, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> There is only one snake in here ,I'm Aware of, Mysterious to you perhaps, you throw things out there which are incorrect, my advise is since you know nothing about Judaism or Jewishness or the Law, it is better you ask instead of affirming things which are incorrect.



Zing........clunk.
That was a stone.  I think.


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## gtparts (Jan 7, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> There is only one snake in here ,I'm Aware of, Mysterious to you perhaps, you throw things out there which are incorrect, my advise is since you know nothing about Judaism or Jewishness or the Law, it is better you ask instead of affirming things which are incorrect.



Humility goes a long way in the act of making inquiry and receiving a gracious response, earl. Spouting things in ignorance is quite a different matter. It is better to keep silent and be thought a ............, or, at least phrase ones questions in an inoffensive manner, than to speak and remove all doubt. Wisdom is often found in listening but rarely in speaking.

"A man has got to know his limitations."

  - Harry Callahan - 

LJ, you seem to have a reluctant student.


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## WTM45 (Jan 7, 2010)

I'd give old earl just a little more credit than that.
He is no amateur.  He has been more accurate on this than he has been wrong.
No one here has been voted "All World Champion" in this event either.


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## earl (Jan 7, 2010)

Lj has shown no inclination to share his ''wisdom''. If he wants to make a point ,he starts up with his smoke and mirrors about the Hebrew language .  IF he were to be correct , the only way to find true salvation would be to become a Hebrew scholar and learn to read the word in it's original language.  I have shared many a thread with Lj and for the most part his ''ace in the hole '' is always''you can't understand''.   I have found in my journey through life there is nothing I can't learn. I have found that there are many who can't teach.


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## earl (Jan 9, 2010)

k9 , just to catch you up to date ,I started a new thread as requested . Come on over . It appears I am not alone in my ''ignorance''.


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## dawg2 (Jan 9, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Now wait a minute earl - is the question "did Jesus call Himself God?" or is it " is God Jewish?" You're making me dizzy.



The question is: "Did JESUS say he was God?"  Not Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John: JESUS.  Did he ever say that?


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## dawg2 (Jan 9, 2010)

gtparts said:


> That dawg with the marbles up his nostrils is back.



Those are eyes, not marbles
You don't like my dawg?


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## gtparts (Jan 9, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Those are eyes, not marbles
> You don't like my dawg?



 dawgs have round pupils, but if you insist those are eyes, you have a picture of a serpent in a dawg suit.


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## earl (Jan 9, 2010)

That has to be worse than a wolf in sheep's clothing !


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## Lowjack (Jan 9, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> The question is: "Did JESUS say he was God?"  Not Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John: JESUS.  Did he ever say that?



Yes He did, that was answered with scriptures, the reason he was Crucified.
When He was asked he said "Eiyeh", Title that only belongs to YHWV.


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## whome (Jan 29, 2010)

John 10:30
30. I and my Father are one. 
Jesus is in discussion/debate/conversation with the Jewish leaders and is speaking of himself and his own nature with him and his father.

He is not speaking of one person, but of one in purpose and unity in idea. The father and the son are not one in the same person. 

If that were so, who was Jesus praying to in John Chapter 17 and other text where he was praying to the father or in Heb 5:7-8 when he was heard for his strong crying and tears. If there is only one person of deity.... who heard him? or who was he praying to? and who was listening to him? It wouldn't make sense... 
John 17:20-21
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
 Again, Jesus prayed that they be one (not in person) but in unity. One purpose, idea, and what they were doing... they are united. 
Unity, a theme throughout the New Testament that was stressed many times.


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## Israel (Jan 29, 2010)

whome said:


> John 10:30
> 30. I and my Father are one.
> Jesus is in discussion/debate/conversation with the Jewish leaders and is speaking of himself and his own nature with him and his father.
> 
> ...



Very good points.
It is always problematic if and when we try to deduce things rather than operate from a position of revelation.
For, as in your examples above, if we are to take the unity for which Jesus prays, and acknowledges...we find believers also elevated to rather lofty heights.
I am not prepared to even refute that (for who is invited to sit in Jesus' throne?) but will, by God's grace, obey the spirit of truth as I hear him, to search out the truth of Jesus' unity with the Father.
I have not been given to search out where I may appear, and so am unconcerned with that...however I am constantly being encouraged, provoked, instructed, commanded to seek out the Lord _where he is_ that I may be there also, and rightly demonstrate his truth.


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## tell sackett (Jan 29, 2010)

"...before Abraham was,I AM." Three seperate persons, yet one Person. Do I believe it? Absolutely. Can my pore ol' mind fully comprehend it? Not yet.


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## Lowjack (Jan 29, 2010)

whome said:


> John 10:30
> 30. I and my Father are one.
> Jesus is in discussion/debate/conversation with the Jewish leaders and is speaking of himself and his own nature with him and his father.
> 
> ...



That's an old JW argument except it doesn't correlate with the rest of scripture such as.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

And

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 29, 2010)

Hebrews 1:8 - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


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## Israel (Jan 29, 2010)

When we see the relationship of the Father and the Son, and come to understand who both said and practices in perfect faithfulness "let each esteem other better than themselves..." we begin to enter into the knowledge and love the Father has for the Son, and the Son, the Father. For we are no more "other" to each other, as the Son is to the Father.


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