# Religion makes another contribution today.



## ky55 (May 22, 2017)

19 dead and 50 wounded at a concert in Manchester, UK. 
Sources say suicide bomber suspected. 

http://variety.com/2017/music/news/ariana-grande-okay-after-explosions-reported-1202440537/


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## ambush80 (May 23, 2017)

ky55 said:


> 19 dead and 50 wounded at a concert in Manchester, UK.
> Sources say suicide bomber suspected.
> 
> http://variety.com/2017/music/news/ariana-grande-okay-after-explosions-reported-1202440537/



It's tragic.  May the victims find comfort.


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## JB0704 (May 23, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> It's tragic.  May the victims find comfort.



Yes.  This ^^^


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## ky55 (May 23, 2017)

Yes, absolutely horrible. 
ISIS claims credit. 
22 dead now, many are teenagers and younger children.


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## WaltL1 (May 23, 2017)

> It's tragic. May the victims find comfort.





> Yes. This ^^^


Agreed.


> Religion makes another contribution today.


Personally I'm not prepared to lay blame soley on "religion".
Even if a confirmed act by ISIS or whoever, it still takes a person with the ability to think and choose to carry out such a horrific, cowardly act.
Motivated by their particular religion? Yes
Inspired by their particular religion? Yes
Maybe even encouraged by their particular religion? Yes
But they still have the ability to say "Nah, I ain't doing that".


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## bullethead (May 23, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Personally I'm not prepared to lay blame soley on "religion".
> Even if a confirmed act by ISIS or whoever, it still takes a person with the ability to think and choose to carry out such a horrific, cowardly act.
> ...


Fanatics and Extremists within religion give the rest a bad reputation.


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## WaltL1 (May 23, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Fanatics and Extremists within religion give the rest a bad reputation.


I agree.
And a good example of the point I'm making -


> If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.


Its pretty clear what "religion" (in this case Christianity) has to say on this particular subject.
I/we know a lot of Christians. 
I don't know any that run around putting gay folks to death.
They might agree with the above, they might believe the above is deserved, they might not even have a problem with it if someone else does the putting to death......
but they use their ability to think and choose and say "Nah, I ain't doing that". 
So while religion certainly has its share of culpability, its the person who is ultimately responsible.


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## bullethead (May 23, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I agree.
> And a good example of the point I'm making -
> 
> Its pretty clear what "religion" (in this case Christianity) has to say on this particular subject.
> ...



Truth Walt.


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

Very sad and disturbing. How long before they attack us in the US again. But you AAA guys keep telling me if I believe in my GOD I must believe in others. I don't think so. You are absolutely correct Walt it has to do with Free will.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 23, 2017)

Sometimes religion plays no part in it at all. 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...te-male-atheist-murders-three-muslim-students


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Sometimes religion plays no part in it at all.
> 
> http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...te-male-atheist-murders-three-muslim-students



So jihad means nothing to you?


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 23, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> So jihad means nothing to you?



In the purest sense of Islam Jihad means a struggle against one's own sins.

In the radical element of Islam it has been perverted to mean the struggle against the enemies of Islam. 

Again, as was pointed out earlier, each human has a conscious and a choice not to choose cowardly violence. 

To portray all Muslims as evil because of some sick individuals in a radical element of the religion is equally as twisted. 

Westboro baptist comes to mind for the Christians. 

The desire to do physical harm to those not like you or those that do not subscribe to your twisted ideologies is as old as humanity itself and is not confined to religion.


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> In the purest sense of Islam Jihad means a struggle against one's own sins.
> 
> In the radical element of Islam it has been perverted to mean the struggle against the enemies of Islam.
> 
> ...


Agreed but it would be foolish not to take precautions. Or to prepare. Keep in mind it is not the Christians killing people at a concert.


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## bullethead (May 23, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Very sad and disturbing. How long before they attack us in the US again. But you AAA guys keep telling me if I believe in my GOD I must believe in others. I don't think so. You are absolutely correct Walt it has to do with Free will.



Free Will is an excuse.
The bible is full of your god taking away the free will of humans to further his agenda.
Please dont use free will as if it is a choice.

Free Will seems to never work for the victims, only the villians.


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

bullethead said:


> Free Will is an excuse.
> The bible is full of your god taking away the free will of humans to further his agenda.
> Please dont use free will as if it is a choice.
> 
> Free Will seems to never work for the victims, only the villians.



So you are saying it wasn't his choice to kill people in the name of his god . Get a clue dude your ignorance is becoming old.


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

This is you AAA guys


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 23, 2017)

I suppose, to bolster your argument against a radical jihad.

 When comparing the Westboro idiots  and Christians to Radical elements of Islam and Muslims; The US Christian community with the help of the Patriot Guard Riders did deliver a symbolic beat down of Westboro, all but shutting them up and putting them out of business in the public eye. In essence policing themselves.

The same cannot be said for the Muslim Community. Evidence, other than a few Imam's speaking out against radical Islam, the Muslim Community has not come out in force to denounce or stop Radical Islam's perversion of Jihad and the violent acts associated with it. They are NOT policing themselves.

I guess to be fair though, did the Atheist community stand up and denounce the killing of 3 innocent muslims? All groups of like interest must police their own for this to work.


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## bullethead (May 23, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> So you are saying it wasn't his choice to kill people in the name of his god . Get a clue dude your ignorance is becoming old.



It sure is his choice but no god grants it.
Ignorance is telling believers in other gods that they have it wrong while believing in your god for the same reasons.


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## red neck richie (May 23, 2017)

bullethead said:


> It sure is his choice but no god grants it.
> Ignorance is telling believers in other gods that they have it wrong while believing in your god for the same reasons.



Who am I killing because they don't believe what I believe? like I said get a clue. It seems as you have the holier than thou mentality isn't that ironic.


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## WaltL1 (May 24, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> This is you AAA guys





> This is you AAA guys


Can't argue with that.
Hooper is trying to use facts and science and the Mayor just doesn't want to hear it


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## WaltL1 (May 24, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Very sad and disturbing. How long before they attack us in the US again. But you AAA guys keep telling me if I believe in my GOD I must believe in others. I don't think so. You are absolutely correct Walt it has to do with Free will.





> But you AAA guys keep telling me if I believe in my GOD I must believe in others


Play along for a moment -
You- Ford is the one true truck because it has 4 wheels.
Me - Chevy is the one true truck because it has 4 wheels.
Based on the arguments given, who is right and who is wrong?


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## bullethead (May 24, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Who am I killing because they don't believe what I believe? like I said get a clue. It seems as you have the holier than thou mentality isn't that ironic.


I've  got many clues. I am not disagreeing with you that we all have the ability to make choices.
We all have the ability to make choices. We all have the ability to know right from wrong. We can act or not act.

Free Will in religion is the excuse theists use to explain why not everyone believes in their god.  Free will is the magic buffer that keeps a god from stepping in and doing something against our wishes.
But theists only use it an excuse when it fits their narrative and do not hold their biblical stories accountable when their god totally overrides free will to get what he wants.


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## ambush80 (May 24, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> I suppose, to bolster your argument against a radical jihad.
> 
> When comparing the Westboro idiots  and Christians to Radical elements of Islam and Muslims; The US Christian community with the help of the Patriot Guard Riders did deliver a symbolic beat down of Westboro, all but shutting them up and putting them out of business in the public eye. In essence policing themselves.
> 
> ...




Moderate Muslims are scared to speak out and understandably so.  The most vocal proponents of reforming Islam like Maajid Nawaz, Ayan Hirsi Ali, and Faisal Saeeed Al Mutar  have 24hr armed security.  

They will kill you for drawing a cartoon.


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## ambush80 (May 24, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> In the purest sense of Islam Jihad means a struggle against one's own sins.
> 
> In the radical element of Islam it has been perverted to mean the struggle against the enemies of Islam.
> 
> ...



The problem is the inherent impossibility of interpreting scriptures.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

Just wanted to say I appreciate you guys not perpetrating the meme of casting all religions in the same light as the OP suggest.  I feel that beliefs form values, and values dictate actions, so maybe a more accurate thread title would be Belief Makes Another Contribution Today.  In the end I feel it's the individuals choice.  One can believe or disbelieve.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> The problem is the inherent impossibility of interpreting scriptures.



I would agree with this 100% regarding the details,  not the message.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I agree.
> And a good example of the point I'm making -
> 
> Its pretty clear what "religion" (in this case Christianity) has to say on this particular subject.
> ...



IMHO anyone who calls himself a Christian and fits any of the above criteria is delusional, and yes I am fully aware there are many out there who do and are.


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## ky55 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> IMHO anyone who calls himself a Christian and fits any of the above criteria is delusional, and yes I am fully aware there are many out there who do and are.




SemperFiDawg,
You and I can agree 100% on that.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> IMHO anyone who calls himself a Christian and fits any of the above criteria is delusional, and yes I am fully aware there are many out there who do and are.


I would agree.
However here's where it gets sticky -
We all (those of us here) recognize that putting a man who lieth with another man to death would be "wrong".
Yet there it is in a supposedly holy book.
So in order not be "wrong", in essence, you have to pick and choose what you are going to follow in your particular holy book.
For me personally, I had a huge problem with a religion that forced me to choose between being wrong or being "all in" and was one of the reasons why I had to walk away from it all.


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## ambush80 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I would agree with this 100% regarding the details,  not the message.





SemperFiDawg said:


> IMHO anyone who calls himself a Christian and fits any of the above criteria is delusional, and yes I am fully aware there are many out there who do and are.



History shows that the interpretation of scripture will be affected by the social climate of the day.  Shinto Buddhism was used to justify horrible atrocities during WWII in the same way that Islam is today.  It's not the words that facilitate dangerous ideology.  They're just the vehicle.  It's the notion that the words come from God that gives them power.  With that premise, the words are beyond reproach, even beyond rational criticism.  Given the right circumstances, the words in 'red' can be turned into a war cry.  The only way to defeat Islamism is to instill the values of secular morality into those troubled regions, the same way that secular morality tempered Christianity. 



WaltL1 said:


> I would agree.
> However here's where it gets sticky -
> We all (those of us here) recognize that putting a man who lieth with another man to death would be "wrong".
> Yet there it is in a supposedly holy book.
> ...



Honestly, Christianity has something that Islam doesn't and that's Christ's example.  But as I said, throw in some zombies and famine and you will get Christ who comes bearing a sword


 instead of this guy:


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I would agree.
> However here's where it gets sticky -
> We all (those of us here) recognize that putting a man who lieth with another man to death would be "wrong".
> Yet there it is in a supposedly holy book.
> ...



It doesn't get sticky unless you muddle the truth.  You yourself said you didn't know of any Christians who would be down with killing homosexuals.  Why is that exactly if the Bible is for it?  It's because it's only in the Law of the Old Testament.  Christ made it's penal code obsolete.   With the adulteress ( a sin punishable by death as they were about to enforce) he said let he without sin cast the first stone. 

 The reason Christians don't believe in killing homosexuals today goes right back to what you said earlier about individual responsibility.   We understand it's about our individual sins that we are responsible for judging not yours or anyone else's.
So to infer The Bible teaches we should stone Homosexuals is patently false.  The Torah taught that.  To be honest you have to make that distinction.

Is it the same God and is not the Torah at least part of the Bible?  Yes and Yes.  The Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible and represent the same God as the rest of the Bible.  

Well how can I say God doesn't condemn homosexuals to death.  I don't.  He did.  

Well how can homosexuality warrant the death penalty on the OT but forgiveness today.  

Different times, different objectives.  Without getting to detailed, I'll offer this analogy.  

If I catch my 3 year old playing with matches I will spank him.  If I catch my 12 year old doing it maybe not.  If my 19 year old does it then he's grown and therefore accountable individually for whatever damage a fire may cause.  

The punishment is greater for my 3 year old because his safety and survival may depend on obedience.  The 19 y/o again is individually accountable. 

When God gave the nation of Israel the Law, in many ways they were like my 3yo.  Their safety and survival depended on obedience.  Times changed.  Israel never became what God wanted them to be mostly due to their disobedience. Christ's is born, crucified and resurrected , ushering  in a New covenant between individuals and God Based on what.  You guessed it,  individual choice and responsibility.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> It doesn't get sticky unless you muddle the truth.  You yourself said you didn't know of any Christians who would be down with killing homosexuals.  Why is that exactly if the Bible is for it?  It's because it's only in the Law of the Old Testament.  Christ made it's penal code obsolete.   With the adulteress ( a sin punishable by death as they were about to enforce) he said let he without sin cast the first stone.
> 
> The reason Christians don't believe in killing homosexuals today goes right back to what you said earlier about individual responsibility.   We understand it's about our individual sins that we are responsible for judging not yours or anyone else's.
> So to infer The Bible teaches we should stone Homosexuals is patently false.  The Torah taught that.  To be honest you have to make that distinction.
> ...


I get the "OT doesn't count anymore" argument. 
I also see scripture from it used in debate when convenient.


> You yourself said you didn't know of any Christians who would be down with killing homosexuals.


I said I don't know any Christians who run around killing gay folks.
I DO know Christians who would be down with it but won't do it themselves.   


> We understand it's about our individual sins that we are responsible for judging not yours or anyone else's.


If that were 100% true there wouldn't be any "I'm not baking you a cake or serving you a pizza" disagreements.


> Well how can homosexuality warrant the death penalty on the OT but forgiveness today


.
Maybe churches who perform gay marriages or have women preachers are actually ahead of the game until the NT Part Deux is released? 

I understand your argument and I think its a valid argument. However much of your argument is comprised of how YOU see it not how the entirety of Christianity sees it. Who is right and who is wrong? I guess thats up to you guys to hash it out.
I'm very hesitant to comment on your analogy because it has to do with how one raises their kids and assuming no abuse, its absolutely none of my business. All I can say is I see it nearly opposite of how you do. Not claiming you are wrong or I'm right, I just see it differently.


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## ambush80 (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I get the "OT doesn't count anymore" argument.
> I also see scripture from it used in debate when convenient.



The argument is not that the OT doesn't count anymore, it's that God/Jesus understands that we can't keep the Laws so he takes the burden of keeping it upon Himself(ves).  I've also heard it said that Jesus kept/obeyed the Laws.  Did that mean that he stoned witches, didn't eat bacon or hyrax and didn't spill his seed on the ground?



WaltL1 said:


> I said I don't know any Christians who run around killing gay folks.
> I DO know Christians who would be down with it but won't do it themselves.



Yes.  I know some Christians, members of my own family, who have said that the Orlando shooting was God's righteousness.  The gays brought it upon themselves.  Some people here think that the gays are the cause of hurricanes.  I try not to laugh but it's _really_ hard.



WaltL1 said:


> If that were 100% true there wouldn't be any "I'm not baking you a cake or serving you a pizza" disagreements.
> .
> Maybe churches who perform gay marriages or have women preachers are actually ahead of the game until the NT Part Deux is released?



It takes the reasoning of secular people to change Christianity, but they come along eventually, kicking and screaming.  Max Planck wrote "Science advances one funeral at a time".  I think the same could be said for religion.  Our grandchildren will laugh at the things Christians believe today.



WaltL1 said:


> I understand your argument and I think its a valid argument. However much of your argument is comprised of how YOU see it not how the entirety of Christianity sees it. Who is right and who is wrong? I guess thats up to you guys to hash it out.
> I'm very hesitant to comment on your analogy because it has to do with how one raises their kids and assuming no abuse, its absolutely none of my business. All I can say is I see it nearly opposite of how you do. Not claiming you are wrong or I'm right, I just see it differently.



It doesn't even have to be your own child.  If I saw a 19 year old doing something dangerous to property, potentially life threatening to himself or others and I could stop him I would.  Especially if I had super powers, even crappy superpowers like the Flash or Aquaman.  I guess my moral compass is better than God's.  

P.S.  I don't know what the 'Ultimate" plan is for all the pain and suffering.


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## jmharris23 (May 25, 2017)

Just because some Christians say something doesnt mean it actually lines up with the message of the Bible in it's entirety.


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## ambush80 (May 25, 2017)

jmharris23 said:


> Just because some Christians say something doesnt mean it actually lines up with the message of the Bible in it's entirety.



Exactly.  And as history has repeatedly shown, the interpretation of the message becomes more secular as long as times are good.  One apocalypse or a bunch of drone strikes could send Christianity back into the Dark Ages.  So for my money, I'll align with the Christians who interpret the Bible in the most liberal (Classically Liberal), secular, and Humanist way.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

jmharris23 said:


> Just because some Christians say something doesnt mean it actually lines up with the message of the Bible in it's entirety.


Not sure if this is possible or even logical but I agree and I also disagree.
I read/see the Bible as containing many, many individual messages.
Some of those messages, in my opinion, align with WHAT WE ARE TOLD is the overall message.
Some of those messages, in my opinion, completely contradict WHAT WE ARE TOLD is the overall message.
Probably a silly analogy, but sweet and sour pork cant be claimed to be sweet in its entirety or sour in its entirety.
It has the ingredients of both. To pick one is ignoring the other.


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## red neck richie (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I would agree.
> However here's where it gets sticky -
> We all (those of us here) recognize that putting a man who lieth with another man to death would be "wrong".
> Yet there it is in a supposedly holy book.
> ...



Walt I agree with you but that was man telling you to choose. I have had the same thoughts. Like Ambush said men interpret scripture differently. That's why there is a church of a different denomination on every other corner. Denominations are man made there are no special sections in Heaven for your particular denomination. I've told you in the past I too struggle with organized religion because of men's interpretations. But I decided a long time ago I wouldn't let what men think get in the way of my personal relationship with my Father in Heaven. My spiritually is more important to me than what others think. I think being gay is wrong and goes against nature and my beliefs but it is not for me to dole out punishment that is for God to decide.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I get the "OT doesn't count anymore" argument.
> I also see scripture from it used in debate when convenient.
> 
> I said I don't know any Christians who run around killing gay folks.
> ...



Fair enough, but I must point out your argument is not how all AAs see your guys belief also.  Could probably find a few who would readily roast a gay at the stake.  It all goes back to the individual.  Christianity says he will ultimately be accountable.    There's a reckoning.  ( can't say that without thinking of a western or two).   Atheism says " the end is the end."  There's something in me that says it's only right for justice to eventually be served, but that's a separate subject.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Not sure if this is possible or even logical but I agree and I also disagree.
> I read/see the Bible as containing many, many individual messages.
> Some of those messages, in my opinion, align with WHAT WE ARE TOLD is the overall message.
> Some of those messages, in my opinion, completely contradict WHAT WE ARE TOLD is the overall message.
> ...




Not being condescending, but you will be judged on what you PERSONALLY understood.  Not what you were told.  It's an individual decision, just like you said.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Fair enough, but I must point out your argument is not how all AAs see your guys belief also.  Could probably find a few who would readily roast a gay at the stake.  It all goes back to the individual.  Christianity says he will ultimately be accountable.    There's a reckoning.  ( can't say that without thinking of a western or two).   Atheism says " the end is the end."  There's something in me that says it's only right for justice to eventually be served, but that's a separate subject.





> Could probably find a few who would readily roast a gay at the stake.


Yup, I know some of them too.
I actually hold them even more responsible than a Christian as an A/A doesn't even have the pressure of worrying about getting to Heaven or misinterpreting scripture or any other excuse other than pure bigotry.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 25, 2017)

Just sitting here and catching up through these posts, and I got to wondering something.

If Jesus had Social Media and Forums to post in, would he use all Caps to yell at someone in an attempt to get his point accross?


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Walt I agree with you but that was man telling you to choose. I have had the same thoughts. Like Ambush said men interpret scripture differently. That's why there is a church of a different denomination on every other corner. Denominations are man made there are no special sections in Heaven for your particular denomination. I've told you in the past I too struggle with organized religion because of men's interpretations. But I decided a long time ago I wouldn't let what men think get in the way of my personal relationship with my Father in Heaven. My spiritually is more important to me than what others think. I think being gay is wrong and goes against nature and my beliefs but it is not for me to dole out punishment that is for God to decide.





> but that was man telling you to choose


Nope there are a number of things I find wrong in the Bible that I would have to choose to ignore.
And wouldn't God know I thought the Bible was "wrong" (in some places) and was just faking it?


> Denominations are man made


I agree.


> I think being gay is wrong


We differ there.
I view being gay in much the same way as I view being left handed. Theres a whole lot less lefties in the world but I don't view them as being "wrong". 


> but it is not for me to dole out punishment that is for God to decide


I can respect that.


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## red neck richie (May 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just sitting here and catching up through these posts, and I got to wondering something.
> 
> If Jesus had Social Media and Forums to post in, would he use all Caps to yell at someone in an attempt to get his point accross?



Absolutely not. I believe he would speak very calmly. Often using metaphors that would require deep thought and soul searching. Although he was know for flipping over a table or two in a temple when men had it wrong.


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## ambush80 (May 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just sitting here and catching up through these posts, and I got to wondering something.
> 
> If Jesus had Social Media and Forums to post in, would he use all Caps to yell at someone in an attempt to get his point accross?





red neck richie said:


> Absolutely not. I believe he would speak very calmly. Often using metaphors that would require deep thought and soul searching. Although he was know for flipping over a table or two in a temple when men had it wrong.



He would post like Isreal.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just sitting here and catching up through these posts, and I got to wondering something.
> 
> If Jesus had Social Media and Forums to post in, would he use all Caps to yell at someone in an attempt to get his point accross?


Caps doesn't necessarily equate to yelling. They can also be used to draw attention to certain words you find important to the point you are making. Its pretty easy in some of these discussions for eyes to glaze over and "speed read" so to speak.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 25, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Caps doesn't necessarily equate to yelling. They can also be used to draw attention to certain words you find important to the point you are making. Its pretty easy in some of these discussions for eyes to glaze over and "speed read" so to speak.



So Black yelling is ok, but what if I put them in red? (red letters being mentioned in an earlier thread)

The red letters in the bible............you know that part, so if Jesus posted his caps in red letters would he be yelling or just bringing attention to those words. Remember, he did let his temple show one day in the synagogue. I think he yelled in red letters that day.


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## WaltL1 (May 25, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> So Black yelling is ok, but what if I put them in red? (red letters being mentioned in an earlier thread)
> 
> The red letters in the bible............you know that part, so if Jesus posted his caps in red letters would he be yelling or just bringing attention to those words. Remember, he did let his temple show one day in the synagogue. I think he yelled in red letters that day.





> So Black yelling is ok, but what if I put them in red?


Personally I don't care if you (or Jesus) uses caps, psychedelic colors or whatever. 
You sure would hate getting a hand written letter from me as I haven't written in cursive for decades and print in all caps


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## StriperAddict (May 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> If Jesus had Social Media



If Jesus walked among us social media types, it might look like this...

Jesus... Come, follow me ...
Kid....... Facebook?
Jesus... No, I literally want you to follow me
Kid....... Umm, Twitter?  SnapChat??
Jesus....  I'm going to start over again and you just let me know when I lose you


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 26, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Personally I don't care if you (or Jesus) uses caps, psychedelic colors or whatever.
> You sure would hate getting a hand written letter from me as I haven't written in cursive for decades and print in all caps





StriperAddict said:


> If Jesus walked among us social media types, it might look like this...
> 
> Jesus... Come, follow me ...
> Kid....... Facebook?
> ...


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 26, 2017)

Well, I had to do some more Jesus Googling, and the angry thing just kept cropping up, then I ran into this as someone was attempting to explain that Jesus may haven gotten angry, but he did not sin. Hmmmm

Ephesians 4:6 is the verse I think they were trying to point out where Jesus said "Be angry but do not sin".

Not sure bout ya'll but that sounds vaguely familiar, as in something I've read in the Tao Te Ching,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so it's off to the Tao to see if Jesus was plagiarizing a book that was thousands of years older than the bible.


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## ambush80 (May 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Well, I had to do some more Jesus Googling, and the angry thing just kept cropping up, then I ran into this as someone was attempting to explain that Jesus may haven gotten angry, but he did not sin. Hmmmm
> 
> Ephesians 4:6 is the verse I think they were trying to point out where Jesus said "Be angry but do not sin".
> 
> Not sure bout ya'll but that sounds vaguely familiar, as in something I've read in the Tao Te Ching,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so it's off to the Tao to see if Jesus was plagiarizing a book that was thousands of years older than the bible.



Can't wait to hear about what you find down that rabbit hole.op2:


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## ambush80 (May 26, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just sitting here and catching up through these posts, and I got to wondering something.
> 
> If Jesus had Social Media and Forums to post in, would he use all Caps to yell at someone in an attempt to get his point accross?



Would he have to type on a keyboard or would he just blink?


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## bullethead (May 26, 2017)

I think because of social media, the instant capacity to share information worldwide and cameras, snapchat etc... Jesus would reach many more people almost instantly but without any of the miracles.


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## ambush80 (May 26, 2017)

bullethead said:


> I think because of social media, the instant capacity to share information worldwide and cameras, snapchat etc... Jesus would reach many more people almost instantly but without any of the miracles.



I need a miracle.  Parting the Red Sea would make me believe, it really, really would.  But I would have to be there with 1,000s of other people with cameras rolling.

Actually, a ***** in my heart would do it.  I imagine that a ***** in the heart of believers must be something powerful.  It must be undeniable that one is experiencing the agency of an outside source and not their own imagination.


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## Israel (May 26, 2017)

I see some very interesting comments...especially regarding how to treat some brand of folks in particular. Pick your flavor.

Have you ever heard anyone say: 

Man 1: "See that guy over there? He's got a great sense of humor, he's smart as a whip, probably the kindest and most patient man I have ever seen, and loyal to a fault"

Man 2: "Sounds like you know him pretty well, must be a friend of yours."

Man 1: "Yes, I've known him about 30 years and never once in that time have I ever felt anything but loathing for him".

So Jesus talks about this: "Whatsoever you do to the least of these my brethren, you have done unto me."

So I think of scenarios...Jesus standing in front of a buncha toothless haggard rag tag folks...but...

nope...that don't work, just can't see Jesus grandstanding them, y'know, sweeping his arms and saying "look at these poor miserable grinning idiots, if you're kind to them...you're being kind to me" 
Besides which, Jesus has a lot to say how blessed poor folk are, those people (in that scenario) begin to look more like the kind of people Jesus readily hangs out with, so if he esteems them like that, they must not be the bunch of "least ones" he's talking about. Wait...those are the winners...not the losers. So, that don't fit at all what Jesus must be saying.

"Ahh I said", growing in my religiosity, maybe he means them "sinner folk"...so I kinda see myself going around with my fingers clutching my nostrils...and being real nice to "sinner folk"...this surely will win them to Jesus and allow me to show my devotion! "look, another wretched sinner...I can be nice to"!
Nah, that scenario also has some built in stops...like most folks can tell when you gotta "hold your breath" around them...you know, so you don't get their stink too far up your nose.
Scratch that one, too.

So it gets real frustrating...Jesus...who are the least ones I gotta find to show my devotion to you...and the rest I can just kinda treat...well...like they ain't there...or worse?

Having been around some folks who have told me they see things a certain way (just like I do, but I don't mean necessary agreement...just that they are as convinced they see rightly...just like....me!)...it's been mentioned a time or two..."well...see? Jesus says "the least of these my brethren...so it can only apply to christians." Be good to christians...(and pretty well you're free to ignore...(or worse)...the rest). Well, in that line I found out that sometimes the one whose considered least (depending upon who I was hanging out with) was the guy with the gold studded pulpit and the three diamond pinky rings...to some...he was the least. At other times (and to other folks) passing some guy preaching in an old torn suit on a street corner would bring about the "finger making circular motions  round the temple" sign. So, even in "that circle"...some are in, some are "out". Is it the guy with the mitre hat? Or the other guy? Or that guy? Or the one with the gazillion dollar TV extravaganza? Yeah...it really gets tiring. Wait, Jesus it must be that you want me to love the guy I consider...least like you! Trying to find "the least" is really rough...cause the one I consider least...in whatever measure...I keep hearing "no, it ain't that guy, I'm lovimg him to pieces."


Then the bulb blew. Or went on, depending upon where you hang.
The least...is everyone...that ain't me. And I pled guilty to that. And got off without so much as a reprimand.


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## bullethead (May 26, 2017)

Now I get it, all the conversations Izzy has had with Jesus are actually conversations with himself playing the part of Jesus. God's voice sounds exactly like Izzy's own voice and that is why he has never answered our requests to explain the voice he claims to hear.


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## Israel (May 26, 2017)

sometimes there are thees and thous...sometimes...not. Sometimes...He even sounds a bit like you.


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## bullethead (May 26, 2017)

Israel said:


> sometimes there are thees and thous...sometimes...not. Sometimes...He even sounds a bit like you.



I do not doubt you for a second.


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## Israel (May 27, 2017)

And sometimes he has sounded like a woman's voice...


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## centerpin fan (May 27, 2017)

Israel said:


> And sometimes he has sounded like a woman's voice...



Gee, I hope it's not Fran Drescher.


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## Artfuldodger (May 27, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Gee, I hope it's not Fran Drescher.



I'm thinking more like Martha Raye.


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## 660griz (May 30, 2017)

Israel said:


> And sometimes he has sounded like a woman's voice...



So, any restroom he/she wants? 
Nice!


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## Israel (May 30, 2017)

As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Ya ever see this? Or maybe even something like it. It's seems it's not an unusual experience, in fact I am pretty sure that's why the film makers used it. 

I've known lots of tough guys, hard guys, even thought myself one...once. No, not big...nor even imposing physically...but to myself, well, I was "one tough guy".

It seems few men know how grievously wounded they can be to be brought to this. But, yeah, it happens. The tough guy has to "take a powder". At that time it's a wonderful thing to hear the goodness of a mother's love is not a mere fiction, or some jumble of chemicals and neurons...but was a shadow of what's true, and real. A thing to provoke us...to consider. Whether early or late is of no matter, "Who is my mother?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOUJPBziUQw


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 30, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Can't wait to hear about what you find down that rabbit hole.op2:



I actually found one, and it was a decent link, but was in a hurry to get out the door for a weekend off. Now I've got to dig it up again.


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## StriperAddict (Jun 13, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Actually, a ***** in my heart would do it.  I imagine that a ***** in the heart of believers must be something powerful.  It must be undeniable that one is experiencing the agency of an outside source and not their own imagination.



Could not have said it better. Heart stuff realized is much, much more profound than what we 'see', miracle, etc. 
Yet the latter makes for a good launch pad


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## atlashunter (Aug 8, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I agree.
> And a good example of the point I'm making -
> 
> Its pretty clear what "religion" (in this case Christianity) has to say on this particular subject.
> ...



They are still part of the problem. They keep the ideology going. Sooner or later someone takes it seriously enough to act on it.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 8, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> They are still part of the problem. They keep the ideology going. Sooner or later someone takes it seriously enough to act on it.


Certainly there are cases of such.
I do wonder however if some/how many of these fruit loops would just find some other reason to do whatever twisted thing they are compelled to do.
If we hold Christianity to that standard, to be fair we would have to hold every darn thing to that standard and I'm thinking there wouldn't be hardly anything left?


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## atlashunter (Aug 8, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Certainly there are cases of such.
> I do wonder however if some/how many of these fruit loops would just find some other reason to do whatever twisted thing they are compelled to do.
> If we hold Christianity to that standard, to be fair we would have to hold every darn thing to that standard and I'm thinking there wouldn't be hardly anything left?



I know it wasn't original to him but Hitchens used to say evil people will do evil things and good people will do good things but to get good people to do evil things that takes religion.


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