# Where did pastors come from



## Oak-flat Hunter (Apr 22, 2017)

Where did pastors come fromhttp://www.visionofthechurch.com/Wheredidthepastor.pdf Truth hurts.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 22, 2017)

http://www.visionofthechurch.com/Wheredidthepastor.pdf

It was hard to click on the link. This will take you straight to it easier.

I just kinda glanced at it. So basically it is saying a Church shouldn't have a preacher? That maybe the Elders could all take turns teaching? I guess it's still ok for Churches to have teachers.

I think some denominations are already like that. Members take turns leading the congregation. Maybe just a big group discussion instead of just one preacher or teacher.


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## Wanderlust (Apr 23, 2017)

Pastor/pasture = feed the flock?


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 25, 2017)

Where did pastors come?  

Dey Mama.

Sorry.  Couldn't help myself.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 25, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Where did pastors come?
> 
> Dey Mama.
> 
> Sorry.  Couldn't help myself.



Hey, you trying to take Centerpin's place?


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## Madman (Apr 26, 2017)

Oak-flat Hunter said:


> fromhttp://www.visionofthechurch.com/Wheredidthepastor.pdf Truth hurts.



And herein lays the problem with proof texting.
“A CHANGE OF THE LAW Hebrews 7:12 “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” Now why would this statement be in the Bible at all? Is there no purpose to this statement and this area of scripture that is clearly defining the new covenant? The new covenant has a different priesthood--the whole church....”

Put that verse in context and see the true meaning.  The original priests came from the tribe of Levi, HOWEVER,

“13 Now the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 It is even more obvious when another priest arises, resembling Melchizedek, 16 one who has become a priest, not through a legal requirement concerning physical descent, but through the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of him,
‘You are a priest forever,
    according to the order of Melchizedek.’”

The change in the priest is referring to the one that comes from the Tribe of Judah, and he would change the law.


Don’t know much about this guy, didn’t even see where he was willing to put his name on it, but just based on this I’d be leery of his teaching.


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## Madman (Apr 27, 2017)

Oak-flat Hunter said:


> http://www.visionofthechurch.com/Wheredidthepastor.pdf



Can't seem to put this to bed.  Is the author of this paper saying that there should be no pastors?  It is such a discombobulated paper I can't seem to discern the true meaning.  

In one part the author tries to explain the Gospel and in another he tries to define the priesthood.

Is he saying that a church should not have a head?  Should the head of the congregation not have some type of training?  If this person considers himself a leader/teacher then he part of the problem.

He needs to at least take a few classes on homiletics.


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 28, 2017)

I always thought 

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

established the position.


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## j_seph (May 19, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> http://www.visionofthechurch.com/Wheredidthepastor.pdf
> 
> It was hard to click on the link. This will take you straight to it easier.
> 
> ...


Problem with a lot of churches, they have teachers not preachers. Go to one who has a preacher, a man of God called to preach and then to one with a teacher. There is a whole lot of difference, I would say that if some of those in our church that were called to preach did as they do at ours and stand up preaching the word God gave them out of no where they would probably be escorted out of the teachers classroom. In two years at our church not once has the pastor or any other preacher preplaned, wrote down, or rehearsed the message to be given on Wed, or Sundays. We were given his word, the Bible to learn from and to teach us. 

1 Corinthians 1:21

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


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## Throwback (May 20, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I always thought
> 
> And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
> 
> established the position.



Well then there's that.


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## hummerpoo (Jun 2, 2017)

For an approach to the question of the OP that is completely different than that of the linked “pamphlet”:

Biblical Eldership,  Alexander Strauch; ISBN 0936083115 (337 pgs.)

Or a condensed version, to get a taste, ISBN 0936083158 (48 pgs.)

I bought the full version for $12.00, and the condensed for under $4.00 (both used in excellent condition).

The following quote from Page 23 of the condensed version should either motivate you to put forth a little effort, or ignore the issue:



> When we speak of the elders’ qualifications, most people think that these qualifications are different than those of the clergy. The New Testament, however, has no separate standards for professional clergy and lay elders.  The reason is simple.  There aren’t three separate offices — pastor, elders, and deacons —in the New Testament-style local church.  There are only two offices — elders and deacons.  From the New Testament perspective, any man in the congregation who desires to shepherd the Lord’s people and meets God’s requirements for the office can be a pastor elder.
> 
> The scriptural qualifications can be divided into three broad categories relating to moral and spiritual character, abilities, and Spirit-given motivation.


In the full version, the above two paragraphs are found on pgs. 72 and 73, respectively, with a section between that includes a quote from Roland Allen:



> We are so enamored of those qualifications which we have added to the apostolic that we deny the qualifications of anyone who possesses only the apostolic, whilst we think a man fully qualified who possesses only ours.  A young student fresh from a theological college lacks many of those qualifications which the apostle deemed necessary for a leader in the house of God, the age, the experience, the established position and reputation, even if he possesses all the others.  Him we do not think unqualified.  The man who possesses all the apostolic qualifications is said to be unqualified, because he cannot go back to school and pass an examination.


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## formula1 (Jun 2, 2017)

*re:*

Well, I guess I tend to take a more simple thought process on the subject.

If my pastor through the word, deed, spirit and scripture blesses my soul and motivates me to take a closer walk with Jesus each day, he is valuable regardless of his qualifications.  He has become qualified by the Spirit of God in my book.  

Y'all carry on!!!


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## Mako22 (Jun 3, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I always thought
> 
> And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
> 
> established the position.



Peter was not the rock, Jesus is the rock that the church is built on.


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## jmharris23 (Jun 5, 2017)

Interesting


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 5, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I always thought
> 
> And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
> 
> established the position.



so, what is "this rock" in that verse?


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## formula1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*re:*

The revelation of Jesus Christ!


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 5, 2017)

formula1 said:


> The revelation of Jesus Christ!



the rock was not Peter, as some suppose, but the confession that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God.

That profession is the rock the church is built upon.


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## Throwback (Jun 5, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> so, what is "this rock" in that verse?



Different people say it means different things. Like just about everything else Everyone thinks their belief is the only true one.


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## formula1 (Jun 6, 2017)

*re:*



NE GA Pappy said:


> the rock was not Peter, as some suppose, but the confession that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God.
> 
> That profession is the rock the church is built upon.



Exactly and blessings to you!


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## hummerpoo (Jun 6, 2017)

hummerpoo said:


> Biblical Eldership,  Alexander Strauch; ISBN 0936083115 (337 pgs.)



The ISBN has been corrected in my previous post (#11);
but I guess no one was effected by my typo.


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## centerpin fan (Jun 6, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> so, what is "this rock" in that verse?










Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

You may now return to your serious discussion.


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