# Long liners.



## Flaustin1 (Feb 5, 2011)

Somebody help me out and show me how you rig your spreads.  Im gonna give open water a shot next year and really dont know what the most efficient way of riggin 5 or 6 dozen dekes up is.  Thanks


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## gb1075 (Feb 5, 2011)

i hunt moving current and so my set up may be a little overkill if you are hunting a lake with little current.  I use a 20lb river anchor tied to one end of 150ft 1/4 inch rig em right mainline rope and  leave about 30 ft of line before i tie on the first decoy.( the 30ft of line allows me to drop my lines in a little deeper water and still allow for the changing tides)  I hunt divers so i use a mix of bluebill and oversize canvasback decoys.  I tie one on about every 4 to 6 ft.  I found that if i tie them on with short pieces of 1/8'' braided cord then use a lighter to melt the braid a little it keeps the decoy from sliding up and down the mainline.  I also found that if i keep the decoy tied really close to the mainline (about 1 to 2 inches) i get less tangles when i put it out and take it up.  I then leave about 30 ft of line after the last decoy then tie on another 20lb river anchor.  I use about 15 to 18 decoys per line (i put out at least 2 lines when i hunt) and keep them in the slotted decoy bags to keep the rope from getting tangled up.  It is really cramped in the boat until i put the decoys out then I can fold the bags up and move them out of the way.  I will try to upload a pic to show the line put out in the water.  I know there are lots of other ways to long line but this works for me.  I wish i had a way to set out a hundred decoys when diver hunting but my boat will not hold that many.


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## jerry russell (Feb 5, 2011)

We hunt shallow salt bays and lakes without current but the mud can be a real problem so being able to get the decoys out and then back up has to be fast and easy. Our rig requires only one guy to walk the decoys out and after the hunt we only need to grab one end of the long line and get it to the guy crankin the spread in. Our spreads can be huge with 8-12 dozen decoys common.

Our decoys are  attached to our 1/4" mainline with drops that we make ourselves using 6" stainless steel gang clips. This allows for very rapid deployment. We store our long lines (300') on spools that we also make. These spools are on boat seat bases that will swivel and follow you as you move around the boat. 
Like GB1075 said- keep your drops short or you will tangle.

Our weight system is a series of 16 oz bank sinkers on clips (yep we make these also) that are placed every few feet that allow us to add variety in the spread by running a zig-zag pattern  to stay away from strait lines when we need to. We finnish the pattern with a traditional "diver tail". We can take up 100+ decoys in just a few short minutes. This system really does work for us. If we used individual decoys it would be a nightmare to get the decoys up.

Hope this helps you.


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## 27metalman (Feb 5, 2011)

A couple of reasons with pics why we don't hunt the big water!


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## Flaustin1 (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks guys.  Anybody got a suggestion on how i should set the dekes.  The "J" or just a V with a few singles on the upwind sides of the V.  i really dont have a clue.  thanks again.


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## jerry russell (Feb 6, 2011)

Here is a copy of an email that I sent to a buddy that is starting the diver addiction...

"In regard to your diver spread question..... It would take a lot of typing to give you what you really need to know about placing diver decoys. Hopefully we will get a chance to do a diver hunt and I will be happy to teach you what I know about these birds.

A short and quick answer to your current questions is to forget current and hunt the wind. Also, forget what you know about puddle duck spreads when hunting divers as they are REALLY different animals.


You will figure out VERY VERY quickly that hunting divers with individually rigged decoys is a nightmare. Long lines cut not only cut deployment and take-up time by 80% but they allow for rapid spread changes that are critical with wind changes. 


Large decoy numbers are equally important. If I had to pick a number of diver decoys to start with I would put that figure at 5 dozen in fresh water and 8 dozen in salt. These are minimums. I am sure you can kill birds with less but you will see what I mean when the flocks of 50-200 birds blow by you with hardly a glance.

Two really important starting points to remember-

#1-  Don't try to land divers in your lap like mallards. Put the landing zone are far away as you can kill the birds- divers hate the shoreline! I step off 38ish yards for the outside of my spread.
#2- Shoot bigger shot #2s or #1s. If you shoot #4s you will loose a ton of birds. The distances are farther and the birds are tougher. Always be ready for the second shot. Many times these birds will hit the water, look around for a moment and poof they are under and gone".

You know, diver hunting is a lot more work than sneaking into a woodie hole with 6 dekes but the reward is that you get to hunt for hours instead of minutes and you never know what you are going to see. I will never forget the site of my 13 year old son paddling the tender kayak out to the mother ship just a couple of months ago. As he broke through the decoys a pod of dolphins surfaced right beside him. The look on his face was priceless. Now THAT was cool. It is a different world hunting these birds. 

The attached picture is a great starting point for understanding diver spreads. I used it as a learning tool when I first started hunting divers. 

If anyone needs help with learning how to rig or anything related to diver hunting, just soot me a PM. That is what this forum is all about.

Hope this helps.

Jerry


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## Flaustin1 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks that helps.  I intend on putting some money into this so ive included a layout boat in my plans.  That will get me away from the shoreline.  My concern is the are that the divers were rafting/loafing in this year is 50-60ft deep.  Should i look elswhere for places they are feeding or should i try them on the deeper water where i see them the most.  Ive got alot to learn.


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## jerry russell (Feb 6, 2011)

Flaustin1 said:


> Thanks that helps.  I intend on putting some money into this so ive included a layout boat in my plans.  That will get me away from the shoreline.  My concern is the are that the divers were rafting/loafing in this year is 50-60ft deep.  Should i look elswhere for places they are feeding or should i try them on the deeper water where i see them the most.  Ive got alot to learn.



LOL from looking at the time stamp on your post I can see that I am not the only duck hunter that is bored at 6am.

Layout hunting is a different beast. It requires a tender boat for duck retrieval and hunter swap outs and that can be a problem when someone has to be "that guy" that is not hunting. Another option is using a kayak for this purpose. 
From a safety standpoint if I were hunting cold deep water I would never hunt layouts boat without a  powered tender boat that has someone sitting in it ready to respond. Things can just go wrong way to fast.


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## Flaustin1 (Feb 6, 2011)

What should i do about the deep water?


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## jerry russell (Feb 6, 2011)

Flaustin1 said:


> What should i do about the deep water?



Deep water only changes your main anchor weight and the distance from it that you put you first decoy. Obviously it makes it a little more difficult to put out the spread.

In extreme water depth (40'-60') I would go with an "L" pattern using just two weights and break it up with some special decoys on long clip on drops like 4'-6'. You would only need about 3-5 of these to kill the "line" look..  Let the tail swing with the wind if you think it will be steady. If not, pin it down with a weight.


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## PSEARCHER (Feb 6, 2011)

*divers*

Man keep it coming, I also want to learn the art of diver hunting!! I know what you mean about being up early with no place to go 
My lab has been looking at me like what are you waiting on!! We're going to be late!!!

Jeffrey


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## jerry russell (Feb 6, 2011)

PSEARCHER said:


> Man keep it coming, I also want to learn the art of diver hunting!! I know what you mean about being up early with no place to go
> My lab has been looking at me like what are you waiting on!! We're going to be late!!!
> 
> Jeffrey



I heard that! Me and Rocko (my lab) are just sitting around watching snow goose hunts on youtube. He gets all jacked up watching them... He will make his first trip to Missouri in less than 30 days.


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## DeweyDuck (Feb 6, 2011)

jerry russell said:


> I heard that! Me and Rocko (my lab) are just sitting around watching snow goose hunts on youtube. He gets all jacked up watching them... He will make his first trip to Missouri in less than 30 days.



My son is considering taking me on a MO trip also.  Sending you a pm.


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## gb1075 (Feb 6, 2011)

Man Jerry that reel you got for the long line is sweet.  I wish my boat was set up a little differently so i could rig something like that.  I bought it as a bass fishing rig years ago and never dreamed i would use it for duck hunting so it is really short on the room required to handle a lot of decoys.  I hunt by myself alot and it is really hard to set out big numbers of decoys in the dark with the current moving.  I agree that you should set out the long line about as far out as you feel comfortable to shoot.  The key to diver hunting as far as i am concerned is getting the ducks to see your spread.   I only hunt with about 40 or so decoys and it seems to be effective on small groups of birds.   As far as hunting the deeper water you just need to leave enough rope between your weight and the first decoy.  I learned the hard way that the decoys can pull your weight up off the the bottom like a cork and float your longline out of place.  It is a lot of work but most days you can hunt and expect to shoot at ducks from daylight until 11 or so.


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## jerry russell (Feb 7, 2011)

gb1075 said:


> Man Jerry that reel you got for the long line is sweet.  I wish my boat was set up a little differently so i could rig something like that.  I bought it as a bass fishing rig years ago and never dreamed i would use it for duck hunting so it is really short on the room required to handle a lot of decoys.  I hunt by myself alot and it is really hard to set out big numbers of decoys in the dark with the current moving.  I agree that you should set out the long line about as far out as you feel comfortable to shoot.  The key to diver hunting as far as i am concerned is getting the ducks to see your spread.   I only hunt with about 40 or so decoys and it seems to be effective on small groups of birds.   As far as hunting the deeper water you just need to leave enough rope between your weight and the first decoy.  I learned the hard way that the decoys can pull your weight up off the the bottom like a cork and float your longline out of place.  It is a lot of work but most days you can hunt and expect to shoot at ducks from daylight until 11 or so.



Where there is a will there is a way. That reel could be put on any boat with a little thought. I am actually going to put 4 more pin points on my boat so that it can be put on the corners of my rig. You could bungy it, seat pin it, manufacture a bracket or something to get it on there. That thing really keeps 300' of line organized.  

Another longline tip for the forum- break your longline into 50'-75' runs on your reel with very small stainless dog clips or giant brass swivels.  This will allow you to run small groups of decoys when you need to without having to manage extra mainline.


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## Skyjacker (Feb 7, 2011)

I hunted 3 dozen decoys this year on average for divers and I do wish I had more.  I prefer the "H" spread.  I usually put out for long lines that create two rails like the sides of the H and then drop some in the middle to create the connecting point.  I have found that this set up works very well.  I try to hunt on one side of the H with the other side littered with single decoys that make it appear thicker.  I drop decoys 2-3' from one another.  

I also use exclusively the self unwinding weights.  You can't buy them anymore but occassionally on ebay.  They are worth their weight in gold.  It allows for instant deployment.


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## jerry russell (Feb 7, 2011)

Skyjacker said:


> I hunted 3 dozen decoys this year on average for divers and I do wish I had more.  I prefer the "H" spread.  I usually put out for long lines that create two rails like the sides of the H and then drop some in the middle to create the connecting point.  I have found that this set up works very well.  I try to hunt on one side of the H with the other side littered with single decoys that make it appear thicker.  I drop decoys 2-3' from one another.
> 
> I also use exclusively the self unwinding weights.  You can't buy them anymore but occassionally on ebay.  They are worth their weight in gold.  It allows for instant deployment.



Hmmm. we are all learning something now...I am digging that self unwinding weight thing.  It allows for more precise control of spacing and prevents decoy bunching when you guess at line depth. 
While the vast majority of our hunting is shallow water, this would be very helpful on deep water diver spreads where you are simply trying to break up a pattern for a more natural look.

Dang fine idea Skyjacker.  I will now be brainstorming with Larry Young (my diver hunting co-addict) on the design of a new decoy weight that self sets its own depth.

I will post what we come up with.

Below is a pic of the USS Mothership running a heavy load of 13-14 dozen decoys and a pile of other crap.


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## Skyjacker (Feb 7, 2011)

On the self unwinding weights. These arent exactly the type I have, but they are close.  Once you wrap the line up around the anchor in a chris cross pattern, you pull a loop through the circle and hook it on one of the 4 sides.  When you deploy, you just undo the loop and drop it overboard. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/DUCK-GOOSE-one-...360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19c2ef4df0


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 9, 2011)

150 plus decoys put out in less than 10 mins and pick up in 15 mins the only way too. Jerry and I have been working for the last 2 yrs on everything to make it where two or more guys or lady's can put out a spread in mins and pick up fast. 4 people works out the best when picking up the spread . 1 reeling in the line , 1 dehooking the deks , 1hooking the deks to the tote line and 1 bring the line to the boat. Without long lines it would take you an 1/2 hour to put out that many deks and an hour to pick them up or more. Long lines can be used for all water spreads from a few to 100's. Can be used on Ducks or geese.
Good luck and besafe
Larry


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## DeweyDuck (Feb 9, 2011)

Just curious Larry, looks like you have some old mallard decoys repainted for ringers; is that true? Your spread really looks good!


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 10, 2011)

DeweyDuck said:


> Just curious Larry, looks like you have some old mallard decoys repainted for ringers; is that true? Your spread really looks good!



Not ringers , yes they are real old mallard deks, they belong to Jerry now, But I painted them for him to look like canvas backs.  I had some ringer hens I painted to look like buffleheads.. The ringers ae GHG ringers and the blue bill is a painted mallard The one closest to you. We Have 15 to18 doz bluebill deks, 8 Doz redheads, 1 doz cans, 18 buffles. 95% GHG deks and rest home made divers. we will be adding more next year. 
Good luck and besafe
Larry


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## Skyjacker (Feb 10, 2011)

Larry Young Jr said:


> 150 plus decoys put out in less than 10 mins and pick up in 15 mins the only way too. Jerry and I have been working for the last 2 yrs on everything to make it where two or more guys or lady's can put out a spread in mins and pick up fast. 4 people works out the best when picking up the spread . 1 reeling in the line , 1 dehooking the deks , 1hooking the deks to the tote line and 1 bring the line to the boat. Without long lines it would take you an 1/2 hour to put out that many deks and an hour to pick them up or more. Long lines can be used for all water spreads from a few to 100's. Can be used on Ducks or geese.
> Good luck and besafe
> Larry



You got my attention.  But I count approximately 86 decoys in the picture and only about 25 of those appear to be a long lines.  So how do you rig the rest?  I want to know how you deploy 150 decoys in 10 minutes. and more importantly, how do you retrieve all of them in 15 without tangling the whole mess up in the boat?  I need more details.


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## jerry russell (Feb 10, 2011)

Skyjacker said:


> You got my attention.  But I count approximately 86 decoys in the picture and only about 25 of those appear to be a long lines.  So how do you rig the rest?  I want to know how you deploy 150 decoys in 10 minutes. and more importantly, how do you retrieve all of them in 15 without tangling the whole mess up in the boat?  I need more details.



I was there that day and what you are seeing is a small part of that spread. We were set up about a half mile off shore and we had another  redhead spread on the other side of the blind.  Believe it or not the vast majority of those decoys are on long lines. Larry and I have worked out a system of 16oz weights and an arching zig-zag pattern that can make a spread look like this. A handful of decoys are on single weights for pattern breaking and those are put out last and taken up first. Then, you grab the last line decoy put out and simply start crankin in the line- decoys, weights and all. It is insane how fast it goes. 

It is difficult to describe. I will try to post a drawing tomorrow.


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## Skyjacker (Feb 10, 2011)

jerry russell said:


> I was there that day and what you are seeing is a small part of that spread. We were set up about a half mile off shore and we had another  redhead spread on the other side of the blind.  Believe it or not the vast majority of those decoys are on long lines. Larry and I have worked out a system of 16oz weights and an arching zig-zag pattern that can make a spread look like this. A handful of decoys are on single weights for pattern breaking and those are put out last and taken up first. Then, you grab the last line decoy put out and simply start crankin in the line- decoys, weights and all. It is insane how fast it goes.
> 
> It is difficult to describe. I will try to post a drawing tomorrow.



Anything you can do to educate me.  This is literally 90% of the hunting I do and I thought I had a pretty good system.  I take it you use the unwinding weights too?  Anything that can get me to set out a spread like that in 15 minutes would be invaluable.


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## Flaustin1 (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for the help guys.  Im really enjoying this thread.  Learning alot too.  Keep it up!


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 10, 2011)

Jerry, I think we have to give a class on long lines. after snow goose season. That would be funner than only teaching firemen how to fight fire.  
Good luck and besafe
Larry


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## duckmaster14 (Feb 10, 2011)

I'd sign up!! i'll also sign up to go ride (not even shoot) on any hunt.
Heck, I'd like to go sometime when it's warmer and have ya'll show me how you're putting these decoys out first hand. A practice run if you will.

This is all so new to me.


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## paulito (Feb 11, 2011)

we practice once or twice during the summer. deploy long lines in the pond and have a skeet shoot out of the layouts. practice makes perfect. 

it would be a toss up though. fighting fire is pretty fun.


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## mdhall (Feb 11, 2011)

This is probably a dumb question, but the main line must sit on the bottom and the rest of the lines go down to it. I was trying to figure out how a retriever could swim through all those parallel lines, I think I got it now though.


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## jerry russell (Feb 11, 2011)

paulito said:


> we practice once or twice during the summer. deploy long lines in the pond and have a skeet shoot out of the layouts. practice makes perfect.
> 
> it would be a toss up though. fighting fire is pretty fun.



That is a good idea (a long line info session). Why don't we all get together and exchange ideas? Shoot some skeet and cook some hot dogs.

Lets look at doing this some time in the future. It is REALLY difficult to explain this system and I know that I would get some great ideas from some of you guys.


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 11, 2011)

paulito said:


> we practice once or twice during the summer. deploy long lines in the pond and have a skeet shoot out of the layouts. practice makes perfect.
> 
> it would be a toss up though. fighting fire is pretty fun.



Your right, fighting fire is great fun. but after 26yrs of it, well I would rother Duck and goose hunt. I am retiring in july. 
But A practice run would be fun and get ready for the season. Jerry hotdogs would be great as long they are chicken dogs!
You will never know what we will come up with when great minds get togather! OK minds.
Good Luck and besafe
Larry


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## Skyjacker (Feb 12, 2011)

mdhall said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but the main line must sit on the bottom and the rest of the lines go down to it. I was trying to figure out how a retriever could swim through all those parallel lines, I think I got it now though.



Dang..  and I didn't even think of that.  With the unwinding weights that could be a complicated retrieve at the end of the day.


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 12, 2011)

mdhall said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but the main line must sit on the bottom and the rest of the lines go down to it. I was trying to figure out how a retriever could swim through all those parallel lines, I think I got it now though.



No thats not a dump question. the Long line is 2 to 4 ft under the water. Rocko the wonder dog runs threw and swims thru them like they are not there. How if your dog has long legs you might have to make you down lines longer. 

Now Jerry and I we make our own down lines. It saves alot of money. The money we save on down lines we put into deks. The justable anchor Has been done . I will take some pics and post what I come up with.  All you have to buy a Clip and a small d-ring (Stainless)

Good luck and besafe
Larry


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## paulito (Feb 12, 2011)

we mostly layout hunt using a tender boat so we do not bring the dogs. We have sucked a line into a prop a time or two but to be honest that is usually due to operator error on a rookie's part. A dog should not have much of a problem.

We hunt a lot of big water though, guntersville to be exact and it sure makes me a lot more comfortable knowing i have a tender boat. plus take river current and a cripple canvasback and even the best retriever can get into trouble real quick. plus i don't trust the bass busters not to run a dog over. they seem to have no problem fishing 60 yards off a spread. 

26years fighting fire, that's awesome. thanks for the service. so now that you're retiring the rest of us get to look forward to you posting all your hunts during the middle of the week while the rest of us are working egh? i barely know you but can already tell i'm gonna gonna dislike you next season. Rest assured it will be purely based on jealosy. HA!


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 12, 2011)

YOU WANT BE THE ONLY ONE. at lease i dont have you cell number. Next yr in Nov another buddy is tiring from the army. So Jerry is going to hate us both. We will be call,texting and e-mail him , we got are limit, taking nap,Pintails are flying, we got limit of cans, etc,etc,etc. Yes we will post our hunts. If the God LORD lets us.  Yep Jerry is got 2 to 3 yrs  at least. Then watch out ducks ,geese.
Good Luck and besafe 
Larry


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## gb1075 (Feb 13, 2011)

This has been a really helpful thread for sure.  I didn't think I was gonna make any changes to my set up for next year but now i think i am.  I am gonna rig up a long line roller for the back of the boat. I am also gonna break the sections up like yall said into about 75 foot sections.  I guess you guys just leave the long line rolled up and clip the anchors on to the end of the line right before you start putting out the decoys? (any special clips you would recommend?) I was thinking that if I mount the roller up high enough it should keep my long line out of my propeller while i am clippin on the decoys.  I am planning on using  some 300 lb flourocarbon leader line for the drop lines on the decoys because i figured it was stiff enough not to tangle.  I am already getting pumped up for next year!!!  That method should allow me to put out at least 5 or 6 dozen decoys in no time.   Thanks for all the great ideas.  will post some pics when i get it done.      gb


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## jerry russell (Feb 13, 2011)

gb1075 said:


> This has been a really helpful thread for sure.  I didn't think I was gonna make any changes to my set up for next year but now i think i am.  I am gonna rig up a long line roller for the back of the boat. I am also gonna break the sections up like yall said into about 75 foot sections.  I guess you guys just leave the long line rolled up and clip the anchors on to the end of the line right before you start putting out the decoys? (any special clips you would recommend?) I was thinking that if I mount the roller up high enough it should keep my long line out of my propeller while i am clippin on the decoys.  I am planning on using  some 300 lb flourocarbon leader line for the drop lines on the decoys because i figured it was stiff enough not to tangle.  I am already getting pumped up for next year!!!  That method should allow me to put out at least 5 or 6 dozen decoys in no time.   Thanks for all the great ideas.  will post some pics when i get it done.      gb



GB- The clips that I use are stainless steel dog clips -like on a leash.  The are very small but can be handled with gloves when you need to. 
PM me if you want some info on the best drop material to use.


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## Larry Young Jr (Feb 13, 2011)

gb1075 said:


> .  I am planning on using  some 300 lb flourocarbon leader line for the drop lines on the decoys.
> 
> pm Jerry or me we can save you a bunch of money. Flourocabon leader is to costly. We have played with about everything and plus we are cheap.
> Good Luck and besafe
> Larry


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## gb1075 (Feb 13, 2011)

cheap=smart.  pm sent.  thanks.


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## MudDucker (Feb 14, 2011)

No need for no expensive stuff on your long lines.  Another technique is to never unrigg.  Just put line and decoys into a standing decoy bag.  The key to this is use short drop line and cover them with surgical tubing so that they don't tangle.  Lay decoys on outer edge and line down the middle.  Be sure to pull out the way it went in!  This is good especially for your short lines.

I like that reel up set up!


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