# Saltwater regulation question ?



## crappiecatchin (May 24, 2011)

I went fishing down in Florida this past weekend and started fishing my spots for gag grouper in state waters. After limiting out I went out in federal waters to catch some red grouper. I was about 20 miles when I got checked. I only got a warning but found out that I couldnt posess Gag grouper in federal waters even though i caught them in state waters. The marine patrol could not show me the law in writing but told me I could find the regulations on line. Ive been looking but with no luck.Does anyone know where I can find these rules.Thanks.


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## florida boy (May 24, 2011)

I cannot find it either in writing . I know a few people that have received a citation for this very thing and it never stood in court . They have to prove you guilty by watching you catch the Gag and place it in your cooler .


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## Tide-Dancer (May 25, 2011)

When Gag Grouper is closed in Federal waters, you can not have Gag grouper on your boat if you are in federal waters. Possession of Gag grouper in federal water will get you a ticket.  Simple possession of Gag Grouper in federal waters when the season is closed.
Florida Boy. I think your buddies told you a story if they said they beat the citation.


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## oldenred (May 25, 2011)

Tide-Dancer said:


> When Gag Grouper is closed in Federal waters, you can not have Gag grouper on your boat if you are in federal waters. Possession of Gag grouper in federal water will get you a ticket.  Simple possession of Gag Grouper in federal waters when the season is closed.
> Florida Boy. I think your buddies told you a story if they said they beat the citation.



...x2


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## florida boy (May 26, 2011)

Tide-Dancer said:


> When Gag Grouper is closed in Federal waters, you can not have Gag grouper on your boat if you are in federal waters. Possession of Gag grouper in federal water will get you a ticket.  Simple possession of Gag Grouper in federal waters when the season is closed.
> Florida Boy. I think your buddies told you a story if they said they beat the citation.



I beat one with redsnapper 2 years ago when it was not open in federal waters . Apparently " Dog Island " isnt the starting point for measuring your 9 miles from ..... The judge in Franklin county threw it out .


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## number1gator (May 26, 2011)

So what is the regs on reds and gags? Size and numbers.


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## grouper throat (May 26, 2011)

Tide-Dancer said:


> When Gag Grouper is closed in Federal waters, you can not have Gag grouper on your boat if you are in federal waters. Possession of Gag grouper in federal water will get you a ticket.  Simple possession of Gag Grouper in federal waters when the season is closed.
> Florida Boy. I think your buddies told you a story if they said they beat the citation.



x3. You all better make sure you have your deflators and dehookers with you as they are checking for them also


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## Rock-hard (May 26, 2011)

grouper throat said:


> x3. You all better make sure you have your deflators and dehookers with you as they are checking for them also



Hold on I am looking for a picture of my filet knife.


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## Rock-hard (May 26, 2011)

You know just like in any case with GWL or driver's license checks, do Game Wardens have to have RAS or PC to search your vessel for fish and or fishing licenses. I know the coasties can do a check for safety equipment but nothing further without consent. How does RAS & PC apply to marine patrols? How does having fishing equipment onboard indicate any more that you are fishing than having a firearm while riding on a 4 wheeler indicates you are hunting? It doesn't. 

Aren't you people tired of NANNY Gubment sticking their nose in every facet of your lives? I will tell DNR officers to pound waves like I will a trooper at a road check wanting to illegally look at my driver's license fishing for a reason to cite me.


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## Wild Turkey (May 26, 2011)

In possession is the key. You cant cross the 9 mile line with anything onboard that isnt legal over the line. We always do the fed first and then the state next. No problems so far and have been checked a lot.


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## Wild Turkey (May 26, 2011)

Want to have some real fun. Do an overnighter and come back the following day with 2 limits. You better have a trip log at your marina saying you left yesterday.


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## Rock-hard (May 26, 2011)

I did find the following in the OCGA Title 27 Regs

§ 27-1-24.  Inspection of vessels and boats 


   The provisions of this title or any rule or regulation adopted pursuant to this title pertaining to the operation of vessels or boats upon the waters of this state shall be enforceable by, in addition to conservation rangers, agents of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and other persons having responsibility to preserve the peace and enforce the laws of this state. Such persons shall have the authority to order any vessel or boat within the boundaries of this state to stop and lay to and shall have the authority to board, inspect, and examine the vessel or boat, its equipment, the wildlife on board, if any, and such documents, licenses, or other records which the vessel or boat is required to possess under this title and Code Sections 52-7-1 through 52-7-25 for the purpose of determining compliance with the provisions of such laws.


OK, so still a little puzzling to me. So I am on your boat, and they ask me for my license. I refuse on the grounds that it is not my vessel or boat and I am not required by 27-1-24 to show them. IANAL but that is the way I read it.


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## oldenred (May 26, 2011)

doesn't matter how we read it, matters how they read it and most of them are illiterate 





Rock-hard said:


> I did find the following in the OCGA Title 27 Regs
> 
> § 27-1-24.  Inspection of vessels and boats
> 
> ...


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## Rock-hard (May 26, 2011)

oldenred said:


> doesn't matter how we read it, matters how they read it and most of them are illiterate



Olred, so do you get my point? Do you agree with my observation of the law as it pertains to a passenger in a boat?


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## pottydoc (May 26, 2011)

Rock-hard said:


> You know just like in any case with GWL or driver's license checks, do Game Wardens have to have RAS or PC to search your vessel for fish and or fishing licenses. I know the coasties can do a check for safety equipment but nothing further without consent. How does RAS & PC apply to marine patrols? How does having fishing equipment onboard indicate any more that you are fishing than having a firearm while riding on a 4 wheeler indicates you are hunting? It doesn't.
> 
> Aren't you people tired of NANNY Gubment sticking their nose in every facet of your lives? I will tell DNR officers to pound waves like I will a trooper at a road check wanting to illegally look at my driver's license fishing for a reason to cite me.



All FWC needs is reasonable evidence that you've been fishing. Rods and reels or any other tackle or dive gear and spear guns are enough for them to search your boat.


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## oldenred (May 26, 2011)

pottydoc said:


> All FWC needs is reasonable evidence that you've been fishing. Rods and reels or any other tackle or dive gear and spear guns are enough for them to search your boat.



that's why you make sure to have enough HP so you can out run em. most of there boats don't have much anymore although there are a few that can still get up and go


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## Swamprat (May 26, 2011)

And don't try to hide them on your boat either....the FWC also have fish sniffing dogs.

Is it also true but I don't do any offshore fishing to verify that circle hooks are also a requirement now. All my salty fishing is inshore, reds, trout, sheepies, flounder, whiting, etc.


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## CAL (May 26, 2011)

oldenred said:


> that's why you make sure to have enough HP so you can out run em. most of there boats don't have much anymore although there are a few that can still get up and go



Huh,ain't seen nothing yet what will outrun those Motorola's!


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## d-a (May 27, 2011)

Wild Turkey said:


> Want to have some real fun. Do an overnighter and come back the following day with 2 limits. You better have a trip log at your marina saying you left yesterday.



That only works on a charter with 2 licensed captains. Recreational fishermen are not trusted enough for that to happen.

d-a


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## gsp416dre (May 27, 2011)

Rock-hard said:


> You know just like in any case with GWL or driver's license checks, do Game Wardens have to have RAS or PC to search your vessel for fish and or fishing licenses. I know the coasties can do a check for safety equipment but nothing further without consent. How does RAS & PC apply to marine patrols? How does having fishing equipment onboard indicate any more that you are fishing than having a firearm while riding on a 4 wheeler indicates you are hunting? It doesn't.
> 
> Aren't you people tired of NANNY Gubment sticking their nose in every facet of your lives? I will tell DNR officers to pound waves like I will a trooper at a road check wanting to illegally look at my driver's license fishing for a reason to cite me.



Riiight! I can say I would bust Chuck Norris in the mouth for looking at me, but just like that, it won't be the case. I have had plenty of people say they weren't going to show me their license...guess what, I saw their license!


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## Swamprat (May 27, 2011)

Why is that some folks think they are so above law enforcement. If you ain't do anything wrong then what's the problem. Yeah, it is a slight hassle out of your day but that hassle also helps folks like the FWC catch the law breakers.

The folks trying to sneak in over the limit, or fillets in zip lock bags hidden on the boat are only robbing from the honest fisherman out there. 

If you really want to see something that makes you sick and really want to stangle some folks is go down to the Keys during the recreational lobster season and start checking dumpsters. You will find hundreds of wrung lobster tails either undersize or some that were over their limit and got scared so they just dump them and let them rot.

Rock-hard, you can tell them to pound waves all they want but they will make your life even more miserable as they slowly proceed to tear your boat apart looking for anything. Get done, hop on their boat and leave you with a mess to sort thru and stow away.


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## Rock-hard (May 29, 2011)

gsp416dre said:


> Riiight! I can say I would bust Chuck Norris in the mouth for looking at me, but just like that, it won't be the case. I have had plenty of people say they weren't going to show me their license...guess what, I saw their license!



GSP you nor any of your cronies will EVER check my license during a routine license check while you are FISHING for a reason to write me a revenue citation. You do not have the AUTHORITE according to the GA State Constitution, The US Constitution, or the OCGA to illegal search and seizures performed during routine road checks.
If you stop me for a traffic violation, then that is a different story. 

Please cite the particular OCGA that warrants or even legalizes the routine road checks LEOs do all the time.


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## Rock-hard (May 29, 2011)

Swamprat said:


> Why is that some folks think they are so above law enforcement. If you ain't do anything wrong then what's the problem. Yeah, it is a slight hassle out of your day but that hassle also helps folks like the FWC catch the law breakers.
> 
> The folks trying to sneak in over the limit, or fillets in zip lock bags hidden on the boat are only robbing from the honest fisherman out there.
> 
> ...




Swamprat you didn't say I was above the law, but I get the feeling that was what you were insinuating. I do not see myself at all above the law. I am simply a man tired of the GOVT trying rule and regulate every facet of my life. If you are not tired of it, then that is fine if you want your liberties stripped away. I don't & I will fight to my last breath to make sure they don't take my liberties guaranteed by my God & the US Constitution. 

WHY is it that so many people like yourself are willing to succumb to the Govt agencies regardless of whether you are doing something wrong or not?  I say if you don't see me doing something wrong, then leave me the **** alone. Being in the right does not mean you have to render to 4th A violations. If you are in the right, then that means they are wasting time they should be catching those poachers you speak of.

BTW, I went to Charleston fishing Friday and yesterday. Since I was not fishing in SC waters, I didn't buy a license. I was fishing at the 226 hole and beyond. That is federal waters, so, I didn't see a need or feel a legal obligation to buy a SC license. Had a great trip on some rather nice mahi.

If more people would stand up for their rights, we would not have them taken away. You may not like my approach, but I refuse to cower to nanny gubment. When you go to war don't you want someone willing to lay it all on the line to win the fight, or do you want to count on some bureaucrat?


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## florida boy (May 30, 2011)

d-a said:


> That only works on a charter with 2 licensed captains. Recreational fishermen are not trusted enough for that to happen.
> 
> d-a



This is not true in Fl. If your boat has sleeping quarters and you can prove when you left to head offshore than you are legal . I have personally asked a few different gamewardens about this when we take our 38 ft delta out and they said 2 days catch was the max limit we could posses upon returning to shore .


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## gsp416dre (May 31, 2011)

Well Rockhard or softy, what ever the real case, I can see you are an expert at this. So I will not argue, but I do invite you to try your idea at the next roadcheck. See, you were the reason road checks were always fun. ( I say always because I work for your real enemy, Uncle Sam, now.) I saw your post, so I had to respond. Please let me know how your license check goes! I will get back with you on the OCGA, because it is in fact several statutes working together that makes it legal. But in the mean time, look for a road check, they are doing many right now because of the gas, and tell them that they can't see it. By the way, in the mean time you can look in Title 40 Chapter 5 and read up on it. I am sure you can navigate it because you seem to be an expert on Georgia Law. Oh, and by the way, it has been challenged in court, so if you don't like it, complain to your judge!


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## gsp416dre (Jun 1, 2011)

Rock,
Here is some, I mean SOME, of the information out there regarding road checks. Case law (even better than state law) sets the standard for road checks. There has to be a stated reason. (No, it does not have to be made known to the motorists at the time!) Officers have to be trained, and I assure you every trooper is highly trained at what they may need. It has to be initiated by a supervisor. (No, a trooper does not need a supervisor present to carry out a road check.) While it can't be a blanket ro drag net, any other crime or illegal activity discovered is enforcable. The officer just needs a reasonable suspicion to investigate, and then to find probable cause that a crime has been or is being commited. (This reasonable suspicion allows him to detain you! Not me sayin, case law does!!) Below you will find case laws, state laws and a couple websites to visit!

http://www.georgiadefenders.com/searchseizure.roadblock.htm,
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-court-of-appeals/1541822.html,
State v. Golden, 171 Ga. App. 27, 29 (2) (318 S.E.2d 693) (1984)
Brent v. State, 270 Ga. 160, 162(2) (510 S.E.2d 14) (1998);  Carson v. State, 278 Ga.App. 501, 502 (629 S.E.2d 487) (2006);  Harwood, 262 Ga.App. at 819-820(1)(a);  Ross v. State, 257 Ga.App. 541, 542(1) (573 S.E.2d 402) (2002); Kellogg v. State, 288 Ga.App. 265, 267-268(1)(a) (653 S.E.2d 841) (2007); McGlon, 296 Ga.App. at 79; Holowiak v. State, 295 Ga.App. 474, 475(2) (672 S.E.2d 454) (2009);  Kellogg, 288 Ga.App. at 268(1)(a)
OCGA 40-5-20, 40-5-29, 40-5-55 (I know you will eventually wonder about this one too) All I have time for at the moment, but I will get more for you later!



In case anyone is wondering, I do not think officers should do whatever they want just because they want. I wouldn't want to be jerked around either. However, I do think that when you are asked for ID, especially when there is established case and state laws as well as department policies, you should produce it. 1- Your life will be much easier, unless you are hiding something. Instead of flexing up at an officer who has a much tougher job than the vast majority of people, just let him do his job and get out of his way.
2- Someone may get caught who just robbed a bank or is wanted for rape or murder! I would hate to think I could have been among the masses who caused such a problem that police had to stop doing roadchecks when I would have shown my license and been gone in 30 seconds or less, but I helped cause an issue and a guy who kidnapped someones little girl got by a roadcheck they could have had. All because I didn't want the government to see if I was who I say. Shameful!! 
One more thing, our constitutional rights are wonderful and keep the government from taking things and unjustly treating us, but some people take it too far and say there should never be a reason for an officer to check and see if they are up to no good. Well, I wonder how those people would feel if it was their baby girl or little boy, or wife, that was taken, or raped, or murdered........ 


Long story short, and then I am back to researching about fishing, which is why I am here, but I refuse to allow people to degrade officers for doing their job, I feel no officer has authority to stop you or detain you without a legitimate reason! It isn't right to do that, and unconstitutional. But, they have alot of authorities that many people have decided to undermine because they THINK they know how to read law and constitution.


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## Rock-hard (Jun 1, 2011)

gsp416dre said:


> Well Rockhard or softy, what ever the real case, I can see you are an expert at this. So I will not argue, but I do invite you to try your idea at the next roadcheck. See, you were the reason road checks were always fun. ( I say always because I work for your real enemy, Uncle Sam, now.) I saw your post, so I had to respond. Please let me know how your license check goes! I will get back with you on the OCGA, because it is in fact several statutes working together that makes it legal. But in the mean time, look for a road check, they are doing many right now because of the gas, and tell them that they can't see it. By the way, in the mean time you can look in Title 40 Chapter 5 and read up on it. I am sure you can navigate it because you seem to be an expert on Georgia Law. Oh, and by the way, it has been challenged in court, so if you don't like it, complain to your judge!





So the real professional you are. You start out with a punch below the belt. That is very indicative of the LEOs of this state and nation. So what does GAS have to do with road checks. I don't quite follow the logic there. I can see them checking for DUI's and such considering we just came off the long holiday weekend.

I have read Title 40 Chapter 5 and it does NOT give LEOs the AUTHORITE to ask someone for their driver's license without PC or RAS. Now I know you are disappointed when a lay citizen can read and understand the OCGA as good or better than those of you charged with enforcing it. I know LEOs think they are above us regular ol citizens, but guess what, YOU ARE NOT. I know it is frustrating when you have your hands tied by the very law you want to enforce. The law(OCGA) does not make any stipulation for unreasonable search & seizure. Please see 4th Amendment to the US Constitution for further guidance. Please stop violating people's rights without PC. Thank you. By the way, I sent you a PM so we can discuss this offline if you will. Thanks.


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## Rock-hard (Jun 1, 2011)

gsp416dre said:


> Rock,
> Here is some, I mean SOME, of the information out there regarding road checks. Case law (even better than state law) sets the standard for road checks. There has to be a stated reason. (No, it does not have to be made known to the motorists at the time!) Officers have to be trained, and I assure you every trooper is highly trained at what they may need. It has to be initiated by a supervisor. (No, a trooper does not need a supervisor present to carry out a road check.) While it can't be a blanket ro drag net, any other crime or illegal activity discovered is enforcable. The officer just needs a reasonable suspicion to investigate, and then to find probable cause that a crime has been or is being commited. (This reasonable suspicion allows him to detain you! Not me sayin, case law does!!) Below you will find case laws, state laws and a couple websites to visit!
> *You must have reasonable suspicion to ask for a person's ID that said person is in the act of or has committed a crime. The smell of alcohol is RS/PS. Just a man and his family riding through your revenue stop is not PC to check his ID. The OCGA nor 4th Amendement does not authorize this.*
> 
> ...





I in no way am degrading officers, just challenging the presumed AUTHORITE you THINK you have.


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## crappiecatchin (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for all of the feedback. If I'm reading correctly,shouldn't the red grouper still be in season. I know the rules seem to be changing alot so I wanted to be sure before heading down this weekend.


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