# 2018 Clover Thread, The Gift That Keeps On Giving



## davidhelmly

As Triple C said, clover is the gift that keeps on giving and I agree totally. I've been seeing everyone's clover pics over the last couple of weeks so I took a few while I was at my lease on Sunday. 
We've got a lot of typical rectangular - round plots but being a pine planation and the owners growing trees everywhere that they can, we plant any little spot that we available. We've got plots that run along the edges of our roads and we plant lots of skidder trails in the pines also a lot like Jim Boyd does and I've grown to really like hunting those long narrow plots, it's almost like the deer feel more secure sometimes in them than standing out in a 2 acre open plot.
Some of the clover in these pics is 8+ years old, some was planted last fall and everything in between. Most of ours aren't the weed free magazine cover plots, I've come to realize that a few weeds definitely aren't hurting anything and that the deer actually eat a lot of the weeds so I don't stress over it like I use to. I still spray them for grass if it gets really bad but mostly just mow them occasionally.

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## Canuck5

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That's some beautiful clover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## OmenHonkey

Looks awesome Triple C!!


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## Triple C

OmenHonkey said:


> Looks awesome Triple C!!



OH...I wish that was mine!  That's David's clover plots on his lease.  He'll be feeding deer all year long with those plots.


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## Jim Boyd

Looks awesome David!!!!

Yep - we plant anything we can get disked and limed. 

Keith and I are gonna be breaking some disks - ahem, ummm, well.... what I meant to say is that we will be cutting in some new areas this weekend. 


As usual David - you got it happening, brother!!!

.


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## XIronheadX

Looks like clover heaven. All the protein a deer could want.


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## BCPbuckhunter

That is some good looking clover David. How is your Renovation clover doing so far?


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## Gut_Pile

Looks great


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## davidhelmly

Thanks, the weather has been just about perfect for the clover this year, I hope we keep getting the occasional rain!!



Jim Boyd said:


> Looks awesome David!!!!
> 
> Yep - we plant anything we can get disked and limed.
> 
> Keith and I are gonna be breaking some disks - ahem, ummm, well.... what I meant to say is that we will be cutting in some new areas this weekend.
> 
> 
> As usual David - you got it happening, brother!!!
> 
> .



Jim, you and Keith go easy on those discs this weekend!




BCPbuckhunter said:


> That is some good looking clover David. How is your Renovation clover doing so far?



I ended up doing a mixture this year of Alice, Balansa and Marathon Red so I didn't try the Renovation.


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## Big7

Bet they like to munch on that!

I've had good luck with clover and millet.


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## uturn

Good Stuff as Usual David!

You mentioned "mowing occasionally" and I am wondering what occasionally means?

Thanks


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## davidhelmly

uturn said:


> Good Stuff as Usual David!
> 
> You mentioned "mowing occasionally" and I am wondering what occasionally means?
> 
> Thanks



Just as needed Scott, normally just once or twice a year.


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## uturn

Thanks David!

Mine do not look as yours but good to know my thinking is similar or at least that's what I've been doin as well.

Obviously, your place looks great!!


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## elfiii

Holy cow David! Y'all got it goin' on in the hizzle. That's inspirational. I'm going to plant more clover this year.


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## Triple C

David...Maybe we make this the clover thread for 2018.  Clover's been the flagship of our plotting endeavors for the past 3 years and as you so eloquently stated - it's the gift that keeps on giving.

These pics look more like winter wheat we planted as a nurse crop for the clover this past fall but at the base is a solid stand of ladino and durana clover.  I've mowed it once already this year and will terminate all the wheat n spray sometime in late May.


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## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> David...Maybe we make this the clover thread for 2018.  Clover's been the flagship of our plotting endeavors for the past 3 years and as you so eloquently stated - it's the gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> These pics look more like winter wheat we planted as a nurse crop for the clover this past fall but at the base is a solid stand of ladino and durana clover.  I've mowed it once already this year and will terminate all the wheat n spray sometime in late May.
> 
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Sounds good AC, clover 2018 it is!! Your clover looks great, I know it is feeding lots of deer!

 I haven't mowed anything or sprayed yet, I always let my wheat/oats go to seed because the deer and turkeys love the seed heads when they get to a certain stage and devour them. 

Clover is definitely our mainstay, if we keep getting some timely rain this summer I will be a happy camper!!


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## tenpoint2772

*clover*

the clover we planted has toped out with red buds.the deer don't seem to be using it as much now do we need to cut it.its our first year with a good clover plot and I am not sure what to do


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## Canuck5

Does the clover look like this?  If so, it's crimson clover and will likely be seeded out in the next 30 days and will be dead.  It will drop seed and depending on what you do, will reseed next fall.

Since you've had success with the clover, you can consider a couple things.  You can plant a perennial white clover, like the ones in the pictures above or you can opt for a variety of annual clovers that will extend the deer usage.  I have both perennial white clovers and the 3 clover mix.  They both serve their own purpose, for me.


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## Canuck5

The annual clovers, for me are crimson, arrowleaf or ladino, and medium red.  My medium red (pink flower) is carrying me thru to the following fall, or has the last couple of years.  These charts sort of spells it out.


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## Canuck5

But a perennial white clover like Durana or Imperial Whitetail Institute, or Regal, is hard to beat!


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## davidhelmly

tenpoint2772 said:


> the clover we planted has toped out with red buds.the deer don't seem to be using it as much now do we need to cut it.its our first year with a good clover plot and I am not sure what to do



Canuck has given you some great advice!!



Canuck5 said:


> But a perennial white clover like Durana or Imperial Whitetail Institute, or Regal, is hard to beat!



Your clover looks great Canuck.


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## deerbuster

I’m looking at taking a 1/4 acre plot we have and making it into a perennial clover plot. I have a few questions: 

1. Is fall or spring better plant time? 

2. The plot is  N/S oriented. Will this be detrimental due to lack of sun? 

3. Soil is sandy/ sandy loam soil next to planted pines, that is usually fairly shaded. Would I be wasting time due to soil type and shade? 

I’m looking forward to see how everyone’s clover does throughout the summer!


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## Triple C

For perennial clover plant in fall along with a grain as a nurse crop. Partial shade is ok. Make sure you have your ph balance right. If you haven’t done a soil test then do so now and amend according to analysis ASAP on the line requirement so you will have several months for lime to start working it’s magic.


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## tenpoint2772

first I want to thank you for your reply.yes it does look like that.i planted some pennington seed along with some wti winter greens and a bag of wti double cross and that clover came out of one of them.i will try to go with that other clover this year


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## Triple C

Took this pic saturday morning from the south end of our largest plot.  The perimeter of this plot is planted in ladino and durana clover.


Near ground level it looks like this.


Best poor man's food plot you can plant.  And with a little maintenance it will be producing clover like this 3 or 4 years later.  Come fall...just overseed it with your favorite grain and your good to go!


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## Canuck5

^^^^^^^^^^  Just doesn't get any better than that!


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## Gut_Pile

Looking good


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## Canuck5

Durana is doing it's stuff right now!


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## Canuck5

After weed wiping and releasing the 3 clover blend


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## Canuck5

No "empty fields" since last fall!


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> No "empty fields" since last fall!


Isn't is nice to not have to harrow,smooth,cultipack every year.


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## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> Durana is doing it's stuff right now!



Looking really good Canuck!! Mine are starting to get a little weedy so I may have to spray some grass sooner than I wanted.



Crakajak said:


> Isn't is nice to not have to harrow,smooth,cultipack every year.



Amen to that!!!


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## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> Isn't is nice to not have to harrow,smooth,cultipack every year.



In the words of David Helmly .... Amen to that!!


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## BuckNasty83

Mine after cleth


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## bacon6

A few pics of my clover plot


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## Crakajak

It doesn't cost that much more to drive....uggghhhh plant a cadillac food plot.


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## bacon6

I surrounded mine with plums, crabapple, Apple, sawtooth oak, muscadine, blueberrys and Chinese chestnut, got some fruit last season but still a few years from having good crops yet but having fun trying to create a good buffet for them


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## Crakajak

bacon6 said:


> I surrounded mine with plums, crabapple, Apple, sawtooth oak, muscadine, blueberrys and Chinese chestnut, got some fruit last season but still a few years from having good crops yet but having fun trying to create a good buffet for them



Great plan to have something for them to  eat 12 months of the year.


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## davidhelmly

The clover is still feeding lots of deer.

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## Canuck5

Now that's a herd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Canuck5

They all look healthy, too!!!!!!!!!!


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## Canuck5

Just an update ...... our clover plots are seeing a lot of traffic, as well!  Have only weed wiped these plots, since they were planted last fall.


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## Triple C

David...Just got home from a busy weekend at the farm.  Mowed all my clover and what was left of the grains.  Here's a few pics of my favorite year-round food source.  1st 3 are pics from the cabin field.






Bean field pics after mowing yesterday.  Clover is kicking it!


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## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> David...Just got home from a busy weekend at the farm.  Mowed all my clover and what was left of the grains.  Here's a few pics of my favorite year-round food source.  1st 3 are pics from the cabin field.
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> Bean field pics after mowing yesterday.  Clover is kicking it!
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You're clover is still looking good TC!! Most of ours is overdue for mowing, I am hoping over the next couple of weekends that I can get most of it mowed, the rains that we have been getting are certainly helping things!!


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## gordylew

What do y'all spray to kill grasses that won't kill off the clover? Seems my pasture grasses crowd out the clover.


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## davidhelmly

gordylew said:


> What do y'all spray to kill grasses that won't kill off the clover? Seems my pasture grasses crowd out the clover.


gordylew, I've used a few different things but have the best luck with clethodim + crop oil. 
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/clethodim-2e-herbicide-1-gallon-replaces-dakota-arrow-2ec-521


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## BCPbuckhunter

What David said, but this year I used a different surfactant. It is still a crop oil but the grass died just as fast as if it was sprayed with gly. I will look and see what it is called when I get home this evening. Normally it will take a few weeks for you to see the effects of spraying grass with clethodim but with this new surfactant it was fast.


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## gordylew

If I spray a half an acre area with clethodim and then mow it close to the ground could I just broadcast or do I still have to till. Being clover seed being so small?


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## BCPbuckhunter

BCPbuckhunter said:


> What David said, but this year I used a different surfactant. It is still a crop oil but the grass died just as fast as if it was sprayed with gly. I will look and see what it is called when I get home this evening. Normally it will take a few weeks for you to see the effects of spraying grass with clethodim but with this new surfactant it was fast.


The surfactant I use is called Hot MES. That's the fastest acting Clethodim I have ever sprayed. It looked like I had used Gly.


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## BCPbuckhunter

gordylew said:


> If I spray a half an acre area with clethodim and then mow it close to the ground could I just broadcast or do I still have to till. Being clover seed being so small?


 Yes you can spray it. wait a few weeks for it to work. Find a good chance for rain and broadcast your clover and then mow the grass down. I would go ahead and spray now to help your existing clover and wait until end of September to plant your clover. But I don't know your situation exactly and there are a lot of variable at play that only you know about.


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## gordylew

Went to tractor supply and asked for Clethodim and got the blank stare.  Where are yall buying Clethodim?


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## Crakajak

gordylew said:


> Went to tractor supply and asked for Clethodim and got the blank stare.  Where are yall buying Clethodim?


https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/clethodim-2e-herbicide-1-gallon-replaces-dakota-arrow-2ec-521.
How much land are you spraying?


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## BCPbuckhunter

gordylew said:


> Went to tractor supply and asked for Clethodim and got the blank stare.  Where are yall buying Clethodim?





gordylew said:


> Went to tractor supply and asked for Clethodim and got the blank stare.  Where are yall buying Clethodim?


I usually order mine through Rural King.


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## Crakajak

gordylew said:


> If I spray a half an acre area with clethodim and then mow it close to the ground could I just broadcast or do I still have to till. Being clover seed being so small?


I'm not far from you.I have enough extra to give you to cover a 1/2 acre.Pm me.


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## Canuck5

July first and clover is still working!


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## GeorgeShu

Beautiful thing you got there!
What kind of clover are we looking at there?  Looks like 2 or 3 different ones, maybe some medium red and Durant and?????

My arrowleaf is about finished, hoping the medium red kicks in soon.


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## Canuck5

Definitely Medium Red in there, the Crimson is gone, but the White clover is Advantage Ladino, which is what's used as part of the Whitetail Institute blend.  Thought I'd give that a try this year.  So far, so good.

My Durana is still kicking, but the deer preference, right now is in these 3 clover blend, plots.


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## Canuck5

I will add a Berseem clover to this mix, this fall, maybe to replace the Crimson, although, I suspect, I will still have lots of Crimson germinate, from years past.


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## ucfireman

Will Clethodim kill Privet? I have a lot of short privet in my clover.


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## Canuck5

Nope, Clethodim is grass selective herbicide.  Not sure what you could use, that won't hurt the clover.


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## Canuck5

https://www.gri.msstate.edu/ipams/FactSheets/Chinese_privet.pdf  I think most of these herbicides will hurt the clover.

You could spot spray with glyphosate.  It will set the clover back, but it just depends on how bad of an infestation you have?


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## ucfireman

Will probably just spray glyphosate 2 times then replant around October or November.


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## Triple C

Made it down to the farm this weekend and checked cameras for the 1st time in a couple of weeks.  Deer are wearing out the clover.  I love clover as a year-round food source.  Here it is in July and it's still pumping out new growth.  Mowed 2 sections of clover this morning before I came home.

Here's a few pics from the last couple of weeks...all these deer are in clover.


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## GeorgeShu

Good lookin plots. Deer seem to approve, in bunches!


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## Triple C

GeorgeShu said:


> Good lookin plots. Deer seem to approve, in bunches!


Thx George!  I wonder if they would hit the clover as hard if I had competing ag around me like soybeans?  I just know for me...clover gets the job done almost year round.  Throw a few brassicas and grains in this fall and should be good to go.


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## Canuck5

You've got it all, Triple C!  You've given those deer lots of reasons to hang around!


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## davidhelmly

Your plots still look great Triple C and the deer are really on them!! My situation is like yours with zero Ag fields anywhere near me and I wonder if I would see as many deer in my clover if I had Ag fields close by. 
If all goes well I will get some mowing done next weekend and will take some pics if I do, we will be shutting down our feeders in a few more weeks and will move most of my cameras to the clover.


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## davidhelmly

I got my tractor back going and got a chance to get some mowing done last weekend. Our clover plots have gotten pretty weedy over the last few months with no mowing or spraying, my main weed problems are dog fennel, sericea, and a bushy yellow flower that I don’t know the name of. Some plots weren’t too bad and some were just solid yellow flowers but I was amazed that all of them were almost solid clover underneath. If the remaining 30 or so acres look as good as the 8-9 acres that I’ve already mowed I may not break any ground this year and just overseed with some cereal grain and brassica. I should have taken some more before pics so you could see before and after. The last couple of big plots I mowed the clover was over 8” tall because I was taking the top off of it.


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## Triple C

David...Seems the clover has just exploded this year.  I've never had more clover, even in areas where I don't recall plating white clover.  I did the same this past weekend...mowed a couple of "non-clover" plots that have lots of clover in them.  I mowed the clover plots a couple of weeks ago to knock down the fennel and the yellow weeds in your pic.  They are doing great, particularly with the rain we've received.


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## SRShunter

Yall guys are the "clover kings" I strive to be more like yall. Gonna try and plant some whitetail institute clover this fall and see what happens. Wish me luck I'm not to much of a green thumb, but I want some of those protein packed clover fields like yall!???


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## Triple C

For any of you clover connoisseurs out there...a few clover pics from this past weekend.  I'll give Mother Nature a whole lot of the credit for providing a near perfect growing season this year in our area.  Deer love the clover.


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## Canuck5

Your residents, approve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## davidhelmly

Very nice Triple C, it won’t be long now!!


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## GeorgeShu

Great stuff!


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## elfiii

You got it goin' on Trip! I'm anxious to check mine. It has done amazingly well through the Summer. Hope I didn't just "talk the magic" too much!


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## Triple C

elfiii said:


> You got it goin' on Trip! I'm anxious to check mine. It has done amazingly well through the Summer. Hope I didn't just "talk the magic" too much!


Let's just avoid another Fall drought like 2016 and we will be golden!  Interesting enough, as I continue to expand my clover plantings I'm amazed that deer seek out clover over all of the natural browse available.  Having thinned pines several years ago, the amount of browse in the pines is off the charts.  I actually bush hogged a thinned row a few weeks ago to give the critters a path to walk into one of the plots.  It's 5 to 6 feet tall with all manner of stuff growing in it that you can hardly walk through.  I watched from the cabin, the group of bachelor bucks come out into the cabin field in one of the pics above about an hour before dark.  They grazed on clover until it got to dark to see.


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## Crakajak

Triple C said:


> Let's just avoid another Fall drought like 2016 and we will be golden!  Interesting enough, as I continue to expand my clover plantings I'm amazed that deer seek out clover over all of the natural browse available.  Having thinned pines several years ago, the amount of browse in the pines is off the charts.  I actually bush hogged a thinned row a few weeks ago to give the critters a path to walk into one of the plots.  It's 5 to 6 feet tall with all manner of stuff growing in it that you can hardly walk through.  I watched from the cabin, the group of bachelor bucks come out into the cabin field in one of the pics above about an hour before dark.  They grazed on clover until it got to dark to see.


They are going to eat the most palatable food source available..We just help them out deciding.


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## Triple C

Here's a clover plot in one of the most secluded areas on our property.  It's about 2/3 of an acre.  I put a camera on it last time down.  Regal ladino in this one.  End of August and clover is still going strong.  Plentiful rain all summer certainly has helped.  I have a ladder stand on the edge of this plot with a large swamp about 50 yds behind the stand and hardwoods between stand and swamp.  Can't wait to sit this stand in a few more weeks.


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## Canuck5

Each of those are eating a couple pounds of clover a day, on your property!!!


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## elfiii

20 lbs of Imperial Whitetail Clover arrives via UPS today. 10 lbs of Durana is teed up at Moss & Sons. I ordered a brand new all purpose plow yesterday and with luck it will be here by Friday. All I need now is a couple hundred pounds of Buck Forage Oats for a cover crop and I'm set. I feel like a kid at Christmas! I can't wait to get more clover plots going! The one I have is being hammered daily by everything and has been all Summer long. With luck I'll get to work up a good seed bed in all my plots this weekend and then 3 weeks from now I put the seed to bed.

Did I say I feel like a kid at Christmas? If not, I feel like a kid at Christmas!


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## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> Here's a clover plot in one of the most secluded areas on our property.  It's about 2/3 of an acre.  I put a camera on it last time down.  Regal ladino in this one.  End of August and clover is still going strong.  Plentiful rain all summer certainly has helped.  I have a ladder stand on the edge of this plot with a large swamp about 50 yds behind the stand and hardwoods between stand and swamp.  Can't wait to sit this stand in a few more weeks.View attachment 941257View attachment 941258


That sounds like a prime place opening afternoon if you have the right wind!!


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## davidhelmly

elfiii said:


> 20 lbs of Imperial Whitetail Clover arrives via UPS today. 10 lbs of Durana is teed up at Moss & Sons. I ordered a brand new all purpose plow yesterday and with luck it will be here by Friday. All I need now is a couple hundred pounds of Buck Forage Oats for a cover crop and I'm set. I feel like a kid at Christmas! I can't wait to get more clover plots going! The one I have is being hammered daily by everything and has been all Summer long. With luck I'll get to work up a good seed bed in all my plots this weekend and then 3 weeks from now I put the seed to bed.
> 
> Did I say I feel like a kid at Christmas? If not, I feel like a kid at Christmas!


You sound kinda down Lee, is everything alright?! 

I understand your feeling completely and it sounds like you have the perfect plan!!


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## Triple C

davidhelmly said:


> That sounds like a prime place opening afternoon if you have the right wind!!


Spot on David.  I need a south wind coming out of the hardwoods to hunt this stand and fortunately, early season we get a lot of south winds.


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## Triple C

elfiii said:


> 20 lbs of Imperial Whitetail Clover arrives via UPS today. 10 lbs of Durana is teed up at Moss & Sons. I ordered a brand new all purpose plow yesterday and with luck it will be here by Friday. All I need now is a couple hundred pounds of Buck Forage Oats for a cover crop and I'm set. I feel like a kid at Christmas! I can't wait to get more clover plots going! The one I have is being hammered daily by everything and has been all Summer long. With luck I'll get to work up a good seed bed in all my plots this weekend and then 3 weeks from now I put the seed to bed.
> 
> Did I say I feel like a kid at Christmas? If not, I feel like a kid at Christmas!


elfiii...2 brands of buck on the bag seed we plant every year is Buck Forage Oats (I love them and so do the deer), and ground hog radishes.  Deer devour them both.  BFO's is a great nurse crop for your clover.  Can't wait to see the results!


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## grady white

Triple C said:


> elfiii...2 brands of buck on the bag seed we plant every year is Buck Forage Oats (I love them and so do the deer), and ground hog radishes.  Deer devour them both.  BFO's is a great nurse crop for your clover.  Can't wait to see the results!



Can you just broadcast the oats in your existing clover plots and have good results ?


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## Triple C

grady white said:


> Can you just broadcast the oats in your existing clover plots and have good results ?


Grady...I can't answer that as I've never broadcast oats into a standing clover plot.  My guess is that you would have limited success just broadcasting oats into a perennial clover plot.  Oats are a fairly large seed.  We plant them with a one pass planter that opens the ground and drops the seed in the furrows...lightly disc & cultipack over them.  I would suggest using wheat which will just about geminate on concrete with good moisture for broadcasting into a standing clover plot.

If you were using oats as a nurse crop for a newly planted clover plot then yes, you'd be good to go.  Plant the oats...drag and cover the seed...broadcast the clover seed with a hand seeder and cultipack or drag.

Perhaps someone that has broadcast oats into standing clover will weigh in with their results.


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## Canuck5

Yes, I think you would have a better success rate, broadcasting wheat.


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## Crakajak

grady white said:


> Can you just broadcast the oats in your existing clover plots and have good results ?


yes and no......
I have overseeded without plowing wheat for many years..I have had great germination if the animals and weather cooperate. I have had to reseed because of the animals and weather didn't cooperate.


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## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> You sound kinda down Lee, is everything alright?!
> 
> I understand your feeling completely and it sounds like you have the perfect plan!!



Yeah, I'm a little down because my plots aren't already planted and it's not opening day yet but I'll push through this depression cycle and in another week I'll be just as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine.



Triple C said:


> elfiii...2 brands of buck on the bag seed we plant every year is Buck Forage Oats (I love them and so do the deer), and ground hog radishes.  Deer devour them both.  BFO's is a great nurse crop for your clover.  Can't wait to see the results!



Yes sir. The trick is finding BFO. Athens Seed says they have it so I'm calling them today to see if they will ship to me.

And I just got a tracking update from FedEx. My plow gets delivered tomorrow.


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## Crakajak

Oats are a larger seed than wheat making it harder to germinate because of less seed/soil contact.
I would experiment and maybe sow the oats and then bushhog the clover (unless it is less than 6" high) to help cover the seed.


----------



## Crakajak

elfiii said:


> Yeah, I'm a little down because my plots aren't already planted and it's not opening day yet but I'll push through this depression cycle and in another week I'll be just as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine.
> 
> 
> 
> You need a sit on the porch planning with a cold beverage close by day.


----------



## grady white

Thanks for the info .. I haven't planted clover yet but after reading here I think I'm going to give it a shot .


----------



## BuckNasty83

Ive been trying to figure out what to broadcast into my clover too. whitetail instate oats were fantastic last yea. I broadcast chicory into it and they wouldn't even germinate. So wheat, brassicas, and chicory is about all you can throw in with the established clover pretty much, huh?


----------



## Crakajak

BuckNasty83 said:


> Ive been trying to figure out what to broadcast into my clover too. whitetail instate oats were fantastic last yea. I broadcast chicory into it and they wouldn't even germinate. So wheat, brassicas, and chicory is about all you can throw in with the established clover pretty much, huh?


 I have had wheat germinate in the floorboard of the truck before .Its cheap.The brassicas and chicory are more for late winter thru summer.Most chemicals that work for weed suppression in clover will kill chicory and brassicas.So if you spray next spring your going to kill the brassicas and chicory most likely, If it is and annual clover plot then it doesn't matter.


----------



## Triple C

I don't want to to do anything to mess up a good stand of perennial clover.  Only thing I'm broadcasting into my pure clover stands is wheat or rye and over the past couple of years I prefer wheat.


----------



## Crakajak

Triple C said:


> I don't want to to do anything to mess up a good stand of perennial clover.  Only thing I'm broadcasting into my pure clover stands is wheat or rye and over the past couple of years I prefer wheat.


I'm an old school type of guy. Time tested is more dependable than new style. I have paid my dues doing the wrong thing with food plots. I will let the younger generation learn by planting the lastest- greatest seed since sliced bread. Its cheaper and easier on my wallet and bones.


----------



## perrault

Need help finding a store that sells 50# bags of phosphate and potash so I can mix a zero % nitrogen fertilizer for my clover. I have made numerous calls to no avail. Food plots to be treated are near Milledgeville. Any help will be appreciated.


----------



## Canuck5

Call Phillip at Gray Feed, Seed & Fertilizer 478-986-3115.   He can order 0-20-20,  today and have it Thursday of next week.

 107 Railroad St, Gray, GA 31032  Less than 20 miles away from you?


----------



## perrault

Canuck5 said:


> Call Phillip at Gray Feed, Seed & Fertilizer 478-986-3115.   He can order 0-20-20,  today and have it Thursday of next week.
> 
> 107 Railroad St, Gray, GA 31032  Less than 20 miles away from you?


Thank -you


----------



## elfiii

Triple C said:


> I don't want to to do anything to mess up a good stand of perennial clover.  Only thing I'm broadcasting into my pure clover stands is wheat or rye and over the past couple of years I prefer wheat.



The only thing I'm going to overseed in my clover plot is more clover. I finally got a good thing going and it ain't broke so it don't need no fixin'!


----------



## davidhelmly

I pulled a card on one of my clover plots about 10 days ago and the deer are hitting it pretty hard every evening, I'm thinking that Cindy and I need to sit there one afternoon coming up.


----------



## Crakajak

davidhelmly said:


> I pulled a card on one of my clover plots about 10 days ago and the deer are hitting it pretty hard every evening, I'm thinking that Cindy and I need to sit there one afternoon coming up.
> 
> View attachment 943413View attachment 943414View attachment 943415


That would be exciting to watch even if you didn't shoot one.


----------



## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> I pulled a card on one of my clover plots about 10 days ago and the deer are hitting it pretty hard every evening, I'm thinking that Cindy and I need to sit there one afternoon coming up.
> 
> View attachment 943413View attachment 943414View attachment 943415



Dang David. Your little ones make my big ones look like fawns.


----------



## Dean

Quick question for established clover plotters.....I have a plot (@ 1.25 acres) of clover standing from last Fall planting. It was bush hogged to about 5"-6" back in late July, then sprayed with clethodim + oil surfactant in late August. I have seed wheat, daikon, Abruzzi rye to plant, (+ fertilizer) as Fall crop. My question is should I simply broadcast seed on existing clover and let it be? or 'lightly disk" with harrows before broadcasting to help create a little more soil contact, my concern is damage to existing clover stand even with light disking.


----------



## GeorgeShu

David, I like the throw and mow method for your situation.  Throw out the seeds and then bush hog again. Try to do this in front of a rain if possible.  The seeds will make it down to the soil and any clippings will help retain moisture to aid in germination. Can also fertilize over the top as well.


----------



## davidhelmly

GeorgeShu said:


> David, I like the throw and mow method for your situation.  Throw out the seeds and then bush hog again. Try to do this in front of a rain if possible.  The seeds will make it down to the soil and any clippings will help retain moisture to aid in germination. Can also fertilize over the top as well.


I don’t have the time to mow that much acreage again so it just got overseeded!


----------



## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> I don’t have the time to mow that much acreage again so it just got overseeded!



That's what I did with mine too. I mowed two weeks ago and last weekend I put down another 15 pounds of Duranna.


----------



## mallardsx2

When you put the seed down with existing clover already growing? Did you just broadcast it and hope that it germinated or did you drill it in?


----------



## Triple C

I overseeded durana into my standing clover plots about a week before Micheal came through.  Following Michael and the rain we received from it, I then fertilized all the clover plots with 0-20-20.  I have more clover than I've ever had.  3 one-third acre plots of regal graze ladino and durana and the perimeter of out 2 largest fields in the same.  I just broadcast into the standing clover with a hand spreader.

Just a personal preference, but I like my established clover as stand-alone plots.  If I were planting for the 1st time I would add a nurse crop of wheat, oats or rye but since the stands are established, I just overseeded with clover and nothing else.  I didn't go a good enough job of controlling grass in some of the plots this past summer and it hurt my clover.  I will be more diligent next summer in controlling summer grasses.  Areas where the grass didn't establish did extremely well all summer and are providing food for deer today.


----------



## Canuck5

It just keeps on giving!  My deer are chowing down on my perennial clover right now!  The plots look imperfect, but the deer don't seem to care!


----------



## Canuck5

Even side by side, old vs (just getting established) new, the deer still like the established clover


----------



## Canuck5

I planted 1 bag of oats mixed with 1 bag of soybeans ....  Some members question if I planted too thin and I may have, but, try to find a soybean.


----------



## Triple C

Took these pics this morn before I left the farm.


Fertilized clover a week ago with 0-20-20.  After bout 8 weeks with very little rain and overly warm temps the clover got stressed but is bouncing back nicely.  Got all non-clover areas planted in fall mixes and overseeded clover plots with more durana.  Cover...The gift that keeps on giving...


----------



## davidhelmly

I went and checked cameras yesterday and took a few pictures of a couple of clover plots, some of them are really weedy but the deer don't care in the least. Sorry for the quality of the phone video...


----------



## Canuck5

LOL, the opinion of the deer, is what counts!!!!!!


----------



## davidhelmly




----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> LOL, the opinion of the deer, is what counts!!!!!!



After years of a crazy amount of time and money trying to make our plots look perfect I completely agree!!


----------



## Canuck5

Perennial white clover just doesn't give up.  My Durana keeps reseeding itself, with no help from me.


----------



## Canuck5

The advantage ladino, is looking great.  I'm pretty please with it, so far.


----------



## GeorgeShu

Don’t just love that stuff?


----------



## Canuck5

Mother Nature, at her best!


----------



## elfiii

Don't have a current pic of mine but it got grazed hard. The deer have moved on to my cereal grain plots which is a good thing because my clover is bouncing back with all this cool wet weather. I've got some kind of grass that wants to be persistent and keeps coming back. I used a generic sethoxydim on it back in August that knocked it back a little bit but it didn't kill it. I'm going to switch out and go with Poast late in the winter before turkey season starts and hope I do a better job of suppressing it.

My overseed job did OK and I'm getting new growth but it's slow going now in this cool weather. I'm hoping it will come on strong in March once it starts warming up some. Prolly hit it with lime and 0-20-20 then too.


----------



## davidhelmly

elfiii said:


> Don't have a current pic of mine but it got grazed hard. The deer have moved on to my cereal grain plots which is a good thing because my clover is bouncing back with all this cool wet weather. I've got some kind of grass that wants to be persistent and keeps coming back. I used a generic sethoxydim on it back in August that knocked it back a little bit but it didn't kill it. I'm going to switch out and go with Poast late in the winter before turkey season starts and hope I do a better job of suppressing it.
> 
> My overseed job did OK and I'm getting new growth but it's slow going now in this cool weather. I'm hoping it will come on strong in March once it starts warming up some. Prolly hit it with lime and 0-20-20 then too.


Lee, if you’re up for trying something new on your grass try some clethodim, I’ve had much better luck with it than poast plus it’s cheaper. Cedar Rock in Woodbury sometimes has it or you can order. 
https://www.ruralking.com/tide-clethodim-1-gallon-selective-post-emergent-herbicide


----------



## Triple C

Took this pic last Tuesday.  Best clover on the property.


And we also grow other stuff during the fall and winter.  A few random pics over the past week.


----------



## Canuck5

It's almost like a golf course, Triple C!


----------



## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> It's almost like a golf course, Triple C!


Ha!  Pretty sure I take more pride in our food plots than I do in shooting deer.  I love watching the critters but not much at shooting em.  Was walking to the stand in the pic with the cedar tree in the right side of the pic and had a lil spike just watch me as I got within 15 yds of him.  Started talking to him and he just stared.  Finally walked under the stand I was heading toward and just mosey'd on off.  Don't think they see any danger in me.   We're holding out on something bigger than we got on the wall and that's been the case for the past 2 seasons.  But...year ain't over.


----------



## davidhelmly

Your clover looks great Triple C!!


----------



## Canuck5

Mother Nature is in control.  My plots were planted the end of September, and I still have clover germinating.  Maybe it's the ones that were planted too deep or some that got washed down into a small trench or some of last years clover seed or, the temperature and moisture just needed to be right.  Have faith!


----------



## Canuck5

The Advantage Ladino is getting used.


----------



## davidhelmly

Looks great Canuck!


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks!!!  Deer are definitely being harvested off the plots this year!


----------



## GeorgeShu

My overseeded Duranna gets grazed down pretty close it seems.


----------



## davidhelmly

I went down to my lease yesterday to pull some cards and took pics of the plots I passed while I was there, they range in size from 1/4ac to about 3.5 acs. The clover is hammered and some needs mowing but it is still feeding piles of deer every day, the better looking plots are the older ones that have been overseeded a few times. I actually found a shed yesterday too.


----------



## davidhelmly




----------



## davidhelmly




----------



## Gut_Pile

Looks good


----------



## deerbuster

Spring Clover Planting??

Alright guys, I've began turning my attention to food plots on the farm I hunt more heavily in the past years. I've planted only annuals (oats, soybeans, crimson clovers, brassicas etc.) but am looking to establishing a few Durana plots. I'm located in the southern part of the state. My question IS would be it a waste of money to try and establish my Durana plots now (early spring) or wait until fall. I have two smaller shaded plots I will be converting, one is 1.5 acres and the other 0.5 acres. 

I know there are some clover gurus here, so I have open ears!


----------



## Canuck5

The biggest reasons to wait till the fall to plant are:

1.  You will battle less broadleaf weeds then and will give the clover a chance to establish, the following spring, before weeds start to come alive.

2.  Perennial white clovers establish their roots first, so you won't see much top growth, but just know that it's doing a lot of work below the soil.  Without a good established root system, perennial white clovers will tend to fail, with one of our hot summers.  Duranna will go dormant in the heat of the summer down here.

Take the time this summer to get your weeds and grasses under control, as well as getting your soil ph above 6.  Use a cereal grain in your mix, as a nurse crop.


----------



## Canuck5

The closer you are to the Florida border, I might also consider a different variety of clover.  Something maybe more suited for that climate.  Durana can act more like an annual, the further south you go.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag139


----------



## GeorgeShu

I suggest you wait until this fall to start your Durana plots. Durana is slow to develop as it puts down a root system before developing much top growth. Winter time is a good period for this development to occur as there is usually less drought stress and surely less heat stress to content with.
Use this year to get your soil tests done and get your ph up to 6.0. Work on weed control.
Plant in early October along with wheat, rye grain and oats as cover/nurse crops. Maybe throw in some greens, turnips and radishes.
Give it time, be patient, rinse and repeat this in the fall of 2020. It will grow but it does take more time than annual type seeding in my experience.


----------



## deerbuster

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Would you recommend a Regal Ladino or RegalGraze instead? I'm open to any, the reason I said Durana is because of all the great reviews and research I've read on it.


----------



## Gut_Pile

We have had good luck with Regal Graze in Early County.


----------



## RootConservative

How small are your smallest successful clover plots?  Also, what have you found to be the perfect size to sustain not getting wiped out by browsing pressure and encroachment from nearby trees?


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C has had great success with RegalGraze up in NE Georgia.  He's even added Durana to it.

I'm a big proponent of doing a mix of a couple different types of perennial white clovers.  Imperial Whitetail Institute is a blend of 3 different types of clovers.  Just can't hurt!


----------



## treemanjohn

I prefer to Frost or spring seed clover. I haven't seen a negative to it so far. The earlier you get the seed in the ground the better. Why wait 6 or 8 months? Besides clover seeds itself in the spring. That tells you all you need to know


----------



## Triple C

I’ve got the best stand of clover I’ve ever had and more acreage in clover than I’ve ever had.  RegalGraze Ladino and Durana.  I’ve never tried frost seeding or planting in Spring.  Clover in these pics was planted October 2017.  A couple of clover stands were planted in 2015.  I lightly overseeded this past fall but the top growth won’t show up till this spring. These pics were taken on Dec 29th.  It’s about as close to a year round food source as you can plant.


----------



## Canuck5

Gogators1856 said:


> How small are your smallest successful clover plots?  Also, what have you found to be the perfect size to sustain not getting wiped out by browsing pressure and encroachment from nearby trees?



This is about a 1/4 acre, total,  shaded food plot that is 50% in Durana clover.  The bare spots are what was planted in annuals.  Total food plot acreage on this property is about 1%, so it's always been kept eaten down.


----------



## Gut_Pile

How many turkeys do you see in that wider woods road @Triple C


----------



## Triple C

Gut_Pile said:


> How many turkeys do you see in that wider woods road @Triple C


GP...Glad to report that we are seeing more turkeys over the past year than the previous 3 or 4 years.  Somewhere around 2015 we had a crash in our turkey population that was really weird.  No idea what caused it but a drastic reduction in the turkey population.  Based on sightings and trail cams, we are heading back in the right direction.

As far as the wide interior roads...when we roost a tom near an interior road we set up just off the road against one of the pines a few rows back.  We only took one tom from the farm last year.  Expecting this year to be much better.


----------



## Canuck5

Still giving!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Turnips took a beating.


----------



## davidhelmly

The clover is looking awesome Canuck, those warm days last week had to have helped some!!


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks!  They did!!!!!!


----------



## spencer12

Does any clover grow very well in shaded areas, or heavy clay soils, or poor acidic soils?  

I know those are three pretty broad categories but it seems I get mixed info from the web about clover.  Some say clover grows just about anywhere, but I assume this is particular varieties and probably less preferred than other varieties.


----------



## Triple C

Spencer...Yes, clover does very well in partial shade. Pic with deer is from Jan 15th. Other pics were taken this past Friday. Clay soils are ok if ph balance is good. Acidic soils, not so good for perennial clovers. Lime, lime, lime. I haven’t pulled a soil test in about 4 yrs but I add lime every other year. This is Regal Graze Ladino clover. I added Durana clover this past fall and expecting it to do as well as the Ladino.


----------



## Canuck5

Like Triple C says ... fix your ph problem and give it a try.  I would lean a little more to using Durana under the conditions you describe.  I have it in heavy clay and small plots that might get just a couple hours of sun a day.


----------



## OmenHonkey

So what are the drawbacks of using Crimson clover versus Ladino or Durana?


----------



## davidhelmly

OmenHonkey said:


> So what are the drawbacks of using Crimson clover versus Ladino or Durana?


The main drawback to me is crimson is an annual and ladino and durana are perennials.


----------



## OmenHonkey

davidhelmly said:


> The main drawback to me is crimson is an annual and ladino and durana are perennials.


Gotcha. I always thought it was Crimson that we planted in the pecan orchards. They come back every year tho. Maybe it's another clover.


----------



## XIronheadX

OmenHonkey said:


> Gotcha. I always thought it was Crimson that we planted in the pecan orchards. They come back every year tho. Maybe it's another clover.


Per Pennington-In the South, crimson can successfully reseed in September for several successive years by mowing in late August followed by light disking or even no disking, depending on soil conditions (usually heavy clay soil requires no disking, sandy requires disking). This works well (at least temporarily) when mixed with ryegrass, which will do the same thing.


----------



## Triple C

I'll preface again by stating that I'm far from an expert...just someone that's been at this for a few short years.  Here's the issue I have with crimson, at least from my limited experience - it's gone by late May, even if it does reseed in the fall.  I recall the 1st year I ever planted, I used a Tecomate blend with chicory and arrowleaf clover.  By mid Turkey season the arrow leaf was over a foot tall and showing little signs of browsing.  By June it was done.  White clover on the other hand, keeps on growing and even during the hottest part of summer, if we get decent rains, it doesn't go completely dormant.  Again, just my .02 worth.


----------



## Crakajak

In the south Crimson can reseed if you let it go to seed in April/May/June. If you till the ground anytime after initial planting it will put the seed that fell off the crimson to deep in the soil to germinate. Crimson has to be planted every year or you have to no till or use the throw and gro method to have any of the crimson seed to germinate the next year..


----------



## BCPbuckhunter

Clover is king. I fertilized last weekend before the rain. I figured I needed to give them a boost because they have been getting hammered.


----------



## Triple C

BCP....Exclusion cage tells all that needs to be said.  Shame on me if I don’t put out exclusion cages before spring.


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like, in Talbot County, we're going to have some 65+ degree weather over the next week or so.  I think we'll have a clover explosion, started!  Can't wait to get back down there!


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Looks like, in Talbot County, we're going to have some 65+ degree weather over the next week or so.  I think we'll have a clover explosion, started!  Can't wait to get back down there!


I will be down Saturday am for several hrs.stop by an see me or take pics of how not to plant a clover plotw


----------



## Canuck5

I might have to take a rain check!!!  Next time I will be down, will be when it dries out enough for us to get another lime truck in.  Probably a couple of weeks.


----------



## Canuck5

Tree's are getting taller and food plots getting smaller on some of our Timber Leases.  Making sure I get good established perennial clover in those.  Some of these plots are getting far less sun, every year.


----------



## Canuck5

https://forages.ca.uky.edu/species


----------



## Triple C

Excellent video Canuck.  I finally put an exclusion cage on our cabin field clover plot.  Clover is coming on strong right now.


----------



## Canuck5

Beautiful farm, Triple C!


----------



## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> Excellent video Canuck.  I finally put an exclusion cage on our cabin field clover plot.  Clover is coming on strong right now.View attachment 964712


Looking good TC, I fertilized some of mine a couple weeks ago so I hope with this rain and warm weather that it’s taking off too.


----------



## Canuck5

I hope to get down to my plots before the end of the month and do some weed wiping, to kill off the grasses and oats that are starting to come thru.  We all should have a clover explosion in the next 30 days!


----------



## davidhelmly

Here is a good video of clover management in the south.


----------



## SRShunter

davidhelmly said:


> Here is a good video of clover management in the south.


That ole boy is feeding some whitetails!!!


----------



## Triple C

SRShunter said:


> That ole boy is feeding some whitetails!!!


Yep.  I've had several conversations with him over the past few years.  He's got a huge tract of land I LA and Mexico.  Grows some old bucks.  One heck of a nice guy that's been doing QDM for a very long time.  And, he freely shares with anyone that inquires.


----------



## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> Yep.  I've had several conversations with him over the past few years.  He's got a huge tract of land I LA and Mexico.  Grows some old bucks.  One heck of a nice guy that's been doing QDM for a very long time.  And, he freely shares with anyone that inquires.


You’re right TC, Rusty is one heck of a nice guy!!


----------



## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> Here is a good video of clover management in the south.



A timely post David. See my next.


----------



## elfiii

So last Fall I took my best foodplot and converted it to Durana clover. It's bottom land with a creek off to the left of the food plot about 30 yds inside the treeline. It's a long thin plot that is oriented N/S so it gets morning and mid day sun and then the tree line on the right side gives it afternoon shade. It's perfect for clover. I planted buck forage oats as a cover crop and crossed my fingers. I have to say my luck ran good with this plot.



Meanwhile my Durana plot I started 3 years ago has been hammered all Fall, Winter and now into the Spring. The animules have clipped it down close and the grass is making a comeback. I put down 0-20-20 on the new plot and 8-24-24 on this one last weekend. I'll be dosing both with a heavy treatment of lime this weekend. The grass is trying to make a comeback in this plot but I already have the Poast ready to lay down as soon as it starts to dry out some.

I can say without a doubt clover has made a big difference in the amount of wildlife we see, especially deer and especially bucks. We had no mast crop at all last year and once the browse all died out last Fall we had hot and cold running deer almost every day. The bad thing about it is it has concentrated the animals and that has brought the coyotes out of the woodwork. I'm going to turkey hunt this weekend but if I don't hear one or see one then the shotgun goes back in the safe and out comes the AR and the Foxpro and I'm on maximum predator patrol.


----------



## davidhelmly

Looking good Lee, you are feeding lots of deer!!


----------



## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> Looking good Lee, you are feeding lots of deer!!



Thanks David! My trail cams certainly think so. I can't decide if I should mow the oats or wait and let them go to seed and die and then mow. I want to give this clover every chance in the world to get well established.


----------



## Canuck5

Very nice Elfiii!  I'd probably consider spraying first, just to get the oats and grasses out of the way and let the clover come thru.


----------



## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> Very nice Elfiii!  I'd probably consider spraying first, just to get the oats and grasses out of the way and let the clover come thru.



That's my plan as soon as it starts to dry out some Canuck. I don't want to spray just to have the rain wash it away the next day.


----------



## Triple C

elfiii...Clover looks great!  Great question on whether or not to terminated the oats.  I just mowed my grains last year in my clover plots but after they died out, I noticed the deer did not eat the clover any any clusters of stubble left from the grains.  Maybe the stiff stubble didn't take well to their tender lips.  I'll be terminating mine this year and keep the grass in check as well.


----------



## elfiii

Triple C said:


> elfiii...Clover looks great!  Great question on whether or not to terminated the oats.  I just mowed my grains last year in my clover plots but after they died out, I noticed the deer did not eat the clover any any clusters of stubble left from the grains.  Maybe the stiff stubble didn't take well to their tender lips.  I'll be terminating mine this year and keep the grass in check as well.



The great dilemma. I can't make up my mind. The oats are giving the clover a chance to get their root system established. Protecting the clover until the hottest part of the year when the oats will die out is very appealing.


----------



## Dean

Grabbed a few pictures this weekend of one of our crimson clover plots (planted in Fall with mix wheat, Abruzzi rye, radishes). Seems the advise is to let this die out in next month or so and go to seed. Then broadcast over-seed with Alyce and possibly something else for summer. Then this Fall, throw and mow (spray herbicide?) to start establishing mix of perennial clovers, hopefully for a 3-5 year stand.


----------



## Triple C

elfiii said:


> The great dilemma. I can't make up my mind. The oats are giving the clover a chance to get their root system established. Protecting the clover until the hottest part of the year when the oats will die out is very appealing.


You'll be good either way.  Only in the few areas where the wheat stubble clumped up did the deer not browse to clover.  I'm gonna really get aggressive this spring on eliminating grass competition when the crab grass starts taking off in May.


----------



## elfiii

Triple C said:


> You'll be good either way.  Only in the few areas where the wheat stubble clumped up did the deer not browse to clover.  I'm gonna really get aggressive this spring on eliminating grass competition when the crab grass starts taking off in May.



Same here. I got wire grass in my established clover plot and it's coming on strong already. I knocked it back last Fall with some Poast but apparently all I did was make it angry. I'm going to take David's advice and switch up to Clethodim. I've always had crab grass in the new clover plot so it's going to get a healthy dose of Clethodim too.

When it comes to food plots these days I'm all about working smarter, not harder.

Does anybody know anybody that teaches classes on working smarter? I've never done it before but the idea is starting to appeal to me.


----------



## Canuck5

Clethodim plus crop oil!!!   It works gooder!


----------



## SR PLAN

I sprayed my plot last Sat. with Clethodim and crop oil I will keep you posted.
When is it to late to fertilize clover? I can not get back down until Apr. 27 if it does not rain. I will use 300 lb. of 0-20-20 per. ac.


----------



## jrc

I've finally got a great Durana plot going....this is the second year of it being established but it's getting hit pretty hard by spring onions.  Is there any herbicide that will kill those things?
I have clethodium and arrow 2-ec but didn't know if either would work.


----------



## Canuck5

SR PLAN said:


> I sprayed my plot last Sat. with Clethodim and crop oil I will keep you posted.
> When is it to late to fertilize clover? I can not get back down until Apr. 27 if it does not rain. I will use 300 lb. of 0-20-20 per. ac.



It may be 3 weeks before you notice any dying grass, so be patient!  

I typically just fertilize in the fall and 0-20-20 is the right choice.


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## Canuck5

jrc said:


> I've finally got a great Durana plot going....this is the second year of it being established but it's getting hit pretty hard by spring onions.  Is there any herbicide that will kill those things?
> I have clethodium and arrow 2-ec but didn't know if either would work.



Clethodim and Arrow 2-EC are exactly the same thing and are just a grass selective herbicide.  Only Kills grass.

An option might be https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...e-ai-replaces-raptor-clearcast-and-beyond-901 

http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/labels/IMOX.pdf

I'd also send a pm to doomtrpr ...... he deals with herbicides all the time and he probably has some better ideas!


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## Tarpenter

I have both Crimson & White clover. Well I assume its White, the heads are round. When trying to get the seed heads to spread do you let the heads die off before you mow ? The White heads appear to be turning brown ahead of the red.


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## Canuck5

Yup .... when the seed heads turn brown and dry, they will be dropping free seed soon!  The Crimson Clover will be done for this year soon and depending on the type of white clover you have, it may continue to produce.  It could be an annual white clover, as well, so ........

Next time you're there, take some pictures and post them here.


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## Tarpenter

Thanks for the reply Canuck. The field of White has been coming up for 3 yrs now, however I have just recently started trying to groom and expand it. Clipping it a couple times a yr like I read ya'll suggest, and have sprayed with cleth to knock back the grass. Again like I read ya'll suggest. Trying to find some 0-20-20 to fertilize with  but having a little trouble finding it bagged. Next trip up I'll call Woodbury Fertilizer and go get it in a 55 gal barrel I guess.


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## davidhelmly

Tarpenter said:


> Thanks for the reply Canuck. The field of White has been coming up for 3 yrs now, however I have just recently started trying to groom and expand it. Clipping it a couple times a yr like I read ya'll suggest, and have sprayed with cleth to knock back the grass. Again like I read ya'll suggest. Trying to find some 0-20-20 to fertilize with  but having a little trouble finding it bagged. Next trip up I'll call Woodbury Fertilizer and go get it in a 55 gal barrel I guess.


0-20-20 fertilizer can be tough to find but the last time I was in Woodbury fertilizer they had it in bags.


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## Canuck5

Where there's a will, there's a way!  

If Woodbury Fertilizer doesn't have it when you get up there, Mid Georgia Grain in Woodbury has a few bags right now  (706) 553-5067 

I'd give either one of them a call and tell them how many bags you want and give them a couple weeks notice and I bet they'll get it for you.  I used to do that kind of thing with Manchester Farm & Garden, but  I guess I didn't buy enough and they closed.


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## SR PLAN

Canuck5 said:


> It may be 3 weeks before you notice any dying grass, so be patient!
> 
> I typically just fertilize in the fall and 0-20-20 is the right choice.


Thanks Canuck5 for all you help and information.


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## Tarpenter

Canuck, here's a few pics of my White & Red clover. In this last pic, can you tell me what the taller, grain looking stuff is ?
Thanks


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## Canuck5

Your white clover looks very nice!!  A few weeds and grasses, just like in mine.  Clethodim + crop oil will take care of the grasses in it and mowing will get the broadleaf weeds.

With your crimson clover, it looks like you might have ryegrass in there.  I wouldn't let it drop seed and I would sacrifice the crimson clover to get rid of it.  Clethodim + crop oil will take care of it  too and won't hurt the crimson.


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## Tarpenter

When does the rye typically drop its seed ? How often can I spray the Cleth ?
Thanks for your advice. I appreciate ya.


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## Canuck5

It's probably within 30 days or dropping it's seed, so the sooner you can spray your Clethodim + crop oil, the better off you'll be.

Legally, you can only apply a maximum of 16 ounces of clethodim, per acre, per year.  I think if you sprayed 10 ounces per acre the first time, you'll be happy.

For your crimson, the key is killing the (rye?) grass off or not letting it go to seed.  You can keep it mowed ... you can use clethodim .... you can nuke it all with glyphosate.  You have a few options.


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## SR PLAN

Canuck, I know what legally means is that for run off and will it hurt the soil and be bad for the food plot and deer that eat the clover if you use more than 16 oz. per. year?


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## Canuck5

I don't have a good answer for you, other than it probably is harmful to your clover.  Other crops, you can go up to 32 ounces/acre/year.  Since the EPA is involved, there's probably other environmental reasons, as well.

But the good news is, is that Clethodim will do a good job.  If you were to spray it now, (10 ounces/acre + 1 quart of crop oil), you'd be pleased.  You may still get more grass later on, but the clover should take control.

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/042750-00072-20080312.pdf


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## Canuck5

Cause I think this will help ...... Paul Knox aka Doubletree wrote the book on clover.

https://iowawhitetail.com/forum/threads/clover.15076/


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## elfiii

Tarpenter said:


> Thanks for the reply Canuck. The field of White has been coming up for 3 yrs now, however I have just recently started trying to groom and expand it. Clipping it a couple times a yr like I read ya'll suggest, and have sprayed with cleth to knock back the grass. Again like I read ya'll suggest. Trying to find some 0-20-20 to fertilize with  but having a little trouble finding it bagged. Next trip up I'll call Woodbury Fertilizer and go get it in a 55 gal barrel I guess.



If you're near Pine Mountain, Moss & Sons has some 8-24-24. I took their word and put some down on my clover 2 weeks ago and Lord have mercy at the clover! I didn't get pics because the grass took off too but I'll be mowing and hopefully spraying this coming weekend and will get some pics after the fact.


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## SR PLAN

Thanks Canuck good to know! I am learning so much from you and this forum.


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## Tarpenter

Thanks for the heads up elfiii. I have searched high & low for a blend. I was told no nitrogen but you say yours liked it eh. Was it a bagged product. I'm about an 45 mins. east of Pine Mt.


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## Canuck5

Although all plants need some sun to really do well, but this little 40 foot in diameter Durana food plot, is surrounded by pine trees and hardwoods, and is producing.  And some weeds are sneaking in there too.


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## Canuck5

We've definitely had a clover explosion, but also have had a grass explosion, as well, but the Arrowleaf is doing what it can to reach to the surface!


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## Canuck5

Durana, still going strong, with a little grass sneaking thru.


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## Canuck5

I ran the weed wiper over everything, with the intention of releasing the clovers, below.


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## Canuck5

I like the Advantage Ladino Clover, since it's a little taller than the Durana, but the Durana seems to be more competitive with grasses, or so it seems.  Advantage below.


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## Canuck5

I finally found my Frosty Berseem, but I can't say that the deer prefer it any better than anything else.  I had replaced my crimson clover with it, last fall, with the hopes that it would jump out of the ground quicker, but I really didn't see that.

The Frosty Berseem has the long leaves.


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## Canuck5

And BTW, yes there is Crimson (reseeding) Clover in that picture, even though I didn't plant any last fall.


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## KILLNTM

I tried the Frosty Berseem this fall and wasn't real impressed with it early on. I could hardly tell it was there at all until this spring when it took off. Not sure the real benefit of it being so cold tolerant if it doesn't emerge until spring. I'm still on the fence whether I'll try it again or not. I too had used it instead of Crimson in some of my plots.


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## Canuck5

That's my feeling exactly!  I wanted something "special" to jump out of the ground in the fall, to replace the Crimson and I just didn't get it.  I'll give it another month or so, to see if there is any additional benefits to it, but I think I am on the side of not using it again.  It was expensive to experiment with.


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## Triple C

Will clethodim kill sedge grass?  I'm got an infestation in a couple of my clover plots and plan on spraying in a couple of weeks to kill grasses.  Wondering how well it will do on the sedge grass.


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## Canuck5

No, clethodim won't do anything to nutsedge.  You'll have to use Basagran a couple of times https://betterturf.basf.us/products/basagran--t-o-herbicide-2x1-gla-us.html or Image or Sedgehammer (Halosulfuron)

Glyphosate typically just kills the green part, but the not the nuts in the ground.


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## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> No, clethodim won't do anything to nutsedge.  You'll have to use Basagran a couple of times https://betterturf.basf.us/products/basagran--t-o-herbicide-2x1-gla-us.html or Image or Sedgehammer (Halosulfuron)
> 
> Glyphosate typically just kills the green part, but the not the nuts in the ground.


Canuck...YOU are the MAN!  Thx!


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## davidhelmly

I put a couple of cameras on some of my clover back in mid April and pulled the cards on the yesterday, they are definitely using my weedy clover!


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## davidhelmly

A few videos too.































https://youtu.be/AdqW5Hvhm40


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## Canuck5

David, I am sorry, but you're never going to be able to harvest a clover crop, unless you do something about those herbivores!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> David, I am sorry, but you're never going to be able to harvest a clover crop, unless you do something about those herbivores!!!!!!!!!!!!


It’s the same every year, I say we’ve got too many deer and we are going to hammer the does this year... it never happens. Lol


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## Triple C

davidhelmly said:


> It’s the same every year, I say we’ve got too many deer and we are going to hammer the does this year... it never happens. Lol


Ha!  Same here.  We average 1 doe a year but this year's gonna be the year...maybe.  Can't wait to see the results of your Woods planter in a few weeks.


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## Canuck5

Lots of activity in our clover plots!


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## Canuck5

Medium Red Clover


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## Canuck5

Ran the weed wiper over some plots, to release the clover below, a couple of weeks back.  50/50 solution of glyphosate and water.  Knocked all the grass back and clover coming on strong.


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## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> Ran the weed wiper over some plots, to release the clover below, a couple of weeks back.  50/50 solution of glyphosate and water.  Knocked all the grass back and clover coming on strong.
> 
> 
> View attachment 969536View attachment 969537


Your clover is looking good Canuck, I think you've got that wick bar figured out!!


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## Canuck5

LOL, and I'm not the brightest bulb in the hall, but it is working and simple.

This is what the plot in pic 227, looked like before I weed wiped.


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## davidhelmly

It made a huge difference for sure!! Some of your clover in that before pic is pretty tall, is it arrowleaf?


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## Canuck5

Yes, there is a wide variety of it in there.  Lots of Arrowleaf, medium red, some ladino and originally this plot was Durana.


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## Triple C

Picking up where we left off last year.  Same views but pics of 2019 ladino n durana clover after mowing this past Saturday.


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## Canuck5

Very nice!


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## davidhelmly

Looks great Triple C!!


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## davidhelmly

The deer are still hitting my clover hard but I'm afraid the hot dry weather that is here will really slow the clover down.


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## Triple C

I’m with you David. Everything, including clover gotta have adequate moisture to thrive. We were so blessed last year with constant rain that we prolly got overzealous with the success of our clover stands. No rain over an extended period = dormant clover. Keeping my fingers crossed for rain.


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## elfiii

Talk about clover! Here's my new clover plot. It's good bottom dirt that slopes downhill from left to right. The creek is just off the right side of the plot. I was hoping it would do well and it has exceeded my wildest expectations. I hit it with the Clethodim last weekend to knock back the rest of the BFO and grass so I can't wait to see it in a couple of weeks.


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## Canuck5

You've got a green thumb, elfiii!


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## davidhelmly

Looks good elfiii!!


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> You've got a green thumb, elfiii!



It ain't me Canuck. I only promoted from tractor driver to tractor operator a couple of years ago. My thumb is starting to turn but it ain't green just yet.  

It's the dirt, soil moisture, amount of daily direct sun, 0-20-20, lime, Buck Forage Oats and Durana and Patriot clover seed. All I did was arrange the meeting.


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## Canuck5

No, it's the Blue tractor, elfiii ..... don't let that secret get out!!!


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## Triple C

elfiii said:


> Talk about clover! Here's my new clover plot. It's good bottom dirt that slopes downhill from left to right. The creek is just off the right side of the plot. I was hoping it would do well and it has exceeded my wildest expectations. I hit it with the Clethodim last weekend to knock back the rest of the BFO and grass so I can't wait to see it in a couple of weeks.
> 
> View attachment 969949View attachment 969950


elfiii...You did good!  Great looking clover plot!  You'll be feeding them just bout year round with that plot.


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## elfiii

Triple C said:


> elfiii...You did good!  Great looking clover plot!  You'll be feeding them just bout year round with that plot.



Thanks Trip. I don’t know why I have waited so long to plant this plot in clover. It’s the perfect plot for it.


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## elfiii

Bump because it's almost time.


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## davidhelmly

elfiii said:


> Bump because it's almost time.


Yes it is, I’m planning to spray all my clover for grass tomorrow!!


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## Canuck5

Probably this weekend for me, too!


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## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> Yes it is, I’m planning to spray all my clover for grass tomorrow!!



I hit mine two weeks ago with the last of my Poast. All it did was make the bermuda and crab grass mad. Got some clethodim inbound on my position. 

Speaking of, is it OK to mix Clethodim with 24Db so I get everything with one application??


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## SRShunter

Yall say a little prayer for my clover please. I truly want to be in the gift that keeps on giving club! Protein Protein Protein!!!! #feedthem


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## davidhelmly

elfiii said:


> I hit mine two weeks ago with the last of my Poast. All it did was make the bermuda and crab grass mad. Got some clethodim inbound on my position.
> 
> Speaking of, is it OK to mix Clethodim with 24Db so I get everything with one application??


Lee I have tank mixed those 2 with no problems but I’ve heard of people killing their clover by mixing them.


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## Ihunt

elfiii said:


> I hit mine two weeks ago with the last of my Poast. All it did was make the bermuda and crab grass mad. Got some clethodim inbound on my position.
> 
> Speaking of, is it OK to mix Clethodim with 24Db so I get everything with one application??



It should be ok. I do it all the time on clover and alfalfa. 

I saw in an earlier post where you used some fertilizer that had some nitrogen in it. Even though it was an 8 that’s what caused your grass explosion.

For anyone close to the Macon area, Mintons carries most all fertilizers. 0-20-20, 0-46-0, 0-0-60. And the typical 5-10-15 and 10-10-10. Call ahead though. At times he runs out.


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## elfiii

davidhelmly said:


> Lee I have tank mixed those 2 with no problems but I’ve heard of people killing their clover by mixing them.





Ihunt said:


> It should be ok. I do it all the time on clover and alfalfa.



I may apply them separately. I got a righteously unbelievable stand of clover right now and it's Dog Days and the deer are hammering it so I don't want to take a chance.


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## davidhelmly

elfiii said:


> I may apply them separately. I got a righteously unbelievable stand of clover right now and it's Dog Days and the deer are hammering it so I don't want to take a chance.


I do not blame you!


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## Triple C

Ihunt said:


> It should be ok. I do it all the time on clover and alfalfa.
> 
> *I saw in an earlier post where you used some fertilizer that had some nitrogen in it. *Even though it was an 8 that’s what caused your grass explosion.


Very interesting comment on using fert with nitrogen.  I normally spread a good dose of 19-19-19 on mine around end of Sep or early Oct when we planting fall plots cause that's what we put on our fall/winter plots and just easier to do.  Never really thought about the unneeded nitrogen I was throwing on the clover.  No wonder I battle grass every summer in my clover plots.  It'll be 0-20-20 from here on out.  Appreciate the input.


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## Ihunt

Triple C said:


> Very interesting comment on using fert with nitrogen.  I normally spread a good dose of 19-19-19 on mine around end of Sep or early Oct when we planting fall plots cause that's what we put on our fall/winter plots and just easier to do.  Never really thought about the unneeded nitrogen I was throwing on the clover.  No wonder I battle grass every summer in my clover plots.  It'll be 0-20-20 from here on out.  Appreciate the input.




Yep. Want to guess how I figured it out? The old school of hard knocks. 

I know it would be a drive for some of y’all but if you call Mintons in Macon and give them a heads up they can get you bagged 0-20-20. 

Good luck everyone.


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## oochee hunter

For you guys north, athens seed has bagged 0-20-20.  I drove all the way up earlier just to get some.  Never heard of Minton,s.  Much closer for me, so I will find them.


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## davidhelmly

Woodbury fertilizer in Woodbury also has bagged 0-20-20


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## Canuck5

And at most places, if you give them a few weeks notice, they will be happy to get in what you need.


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## Ihunt

Just called Mintons and got a price on some fertilizer.
0-45-0 is $25.00 a bag and so is 0-0-60. 

Just a little heads up.

Their number is 478-788-5962.


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