# being saved.



## ricksconnected (Feb 17, 2017)

do you guys believe the "once saved always saved"
idea. or is it one can fall away from the gift of being saved
that he/she is no longer saved?

another question:
how does one know that he or she is actually saved?
sure we say the "sinners prayer" and ask for forgiveness and that God come into our lives, but how to we know....
I mean really know deep inside if we are saved or not?
looking for something other than "because the bible say so."


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## formula1 (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re:*

I'm going to try to answer my best to answer your questions.  If you need more info, just let me know.

First let me say that we would not know how to be saved without the scriptures so it always has to be a part of our understanding.  But I know what you are asking!

Why be saved?  
Everyone of us comes into this world separated from God.  We start by having no hope in heaven.  Why?  Because of sin!  Not sins, like the things you do wrong every day, but rather a nature of sin.  It is who we are.

God cannot live with sin for he is holy and righteous so He cannot live and fellowship with us.   So Jesus came to earth to die for our sin nature   to rise again to be the first example of a completely new life that is made available to us.  In short, the death and resurrection of Christ made possible a brand new life that includes a relationship with our creator God.  The bible would call this being reconciled to God. 

The Gospel is the good news of Christ's work that we can be redeemed to God.  We must believe it (trust Christ), agree to turn from our sin and turn back to God.  This is what the sinner's prayer is about.  But it's not about the prayer, it's about have you repented and have you turned from your way to God's way? In other words, have you changed or are you changing?  

When you are truly saved the Holy Spirit comes into your life.  You see evidence of His working in you.  For example, before salvation you don't really care about how you are living or about your sin.  Afterward, it suddenly matters to you.  This is the Holy Spirit working in your life to convict to change your direction and follow Him.  This in itself is an assurance of salvation, that is, the Holy Spirit is working.  If you don't want to pray, to learn of His word, and follow His precepts or listen to what He says,  then that sinners' prayer doesn't mean much does it!

The idea of 'once saved always saved' is basically true if the Holy Spirit is working in your and changing your life as you go into what God wants for you.  I say it this way,  if that is not happening, were you really saved?  It's not that sins don't still happen, but with repentance and turning away from it, God grows you up in Him.  Sanctification is what the Bible calls this.

See, I did all of this without quoting scripture but really it's all in there.  I hope I have helped and if I can clear up anything else, just let me know.

May God Bless!!!


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## gordon 2 (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> do you guys believe the "once saved always saved"
> idea. or is it one can fall away from the gift of being saved
> that he/she is no longer saved?
> 
> ...



This has been debated within Christianity for some time now. People have build up barricades to protect their turf on this subject for various reasons. Some have gathered handfuls of scripture verses and lobbed them at each other like they were soldiering in the streets of of the days the French Revolution and others have mustered formal armies, riding their forces in hails of musket ball.

Nevertheless, this is my view from knowing the field before and after the skirmishes and the great feats of doctrinal armies. 

Definition-- salvation. We are saved from what?

The Hebrews were saved from bondage in Egypt. That bondage included the worship of any number of false gods but also a destructive outlook on life.

Did they suffer their salvation with fervor never to return into bondage. I don't think I have to answer that because the pages of scripture are marked significantly with their removal from their promised land for the transgressions.

Now it can be said ( argued-demonstrated) that as a people Israel has always been saved. But as individuals within this people some did return to bondage and even worse became oppressors themselves or the overlords of unrighteousness. Many died in the estate they had been saved from.

Similarly so it is with Christians in my view. And my view comes from the question, "What are we saved from?" My answer is that we are saved from the world which is/was our bondage. We are saved from it because saved now we can identify the world separate from the heavenly. When we were not saved we could not do this. And for me this is how we can know we are saved in that the Holy Spirit shows us plainly what we were saved from and our present estate which is the kingdom.

Now can we return from this salvation to our place of bondage which was the world, where we were foreigners to a life in Christ? I personally think so and I think we do this and still claiming we act and are in Him.  We can be as those said in scripture to call on Him, "Lord, Lord!" and God not knowing who we are.

Personally when I read the letters of the apostles especially, it is evident to me that saved from the world all cautioned not to return to it and I interpret this possible return as one's loss of salvation.

" Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:"   

 To me this Israel has come to mean all the people of faith who will not backslide from faith or everlasting life itself and return not to first love but the very first sin and its misery following. Knowingly or unknowingly some will/have deny (ied) Christ having known Him... 

 I do understand that salvation is conditional not because we would sin but because we very well can take up the false gods of the world for our allies and act from their motivations against the very nature of our Savior, the Holy Spirit Himself, the One we know full well for being able to differentiate through Jesus what is worldly and what is heavenly.  

What Judas did in a very short time we, said  "the saved", can also. We also can trade our salvation and our God for mere bits of the world.

The conflict still remains as this, just as it was with the Hebrews: Someone said:

 "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."


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## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

being saved from what? being saved from certain death.


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## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

taking this all in guys. lots to read and understand.
anybody else have anything to add to the conversation?


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## centerpin fan (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> anybody else have anything to add to the conversation?



http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=878019


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## gordon 2 (Feb 18, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=878019



You are always faithful to contribute to this subject in the special way you do.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 18, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> You are always faithful to contribute to this subject in the special way you do.



We all have our gifts.


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## GunnSmokeer (Feb 18, 2017)

Jesus Himself said, Matthew 12:31, 

“_Therefore I say to you,
 every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, 
but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men_.”

I take that as an affirmation of "once saved, always saved" with that very narrow exception for people who reject the trinity and teach that there is no Holy Spirit (or that it does not guide us, as Jesus said it would, in John 14, and as repeatedly mentioned in other N.T. writings (Acts 1:8 and 5:5; ).


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## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

ok so what exactly is blasphemy? 
so if one has EVER at any point in his/her life done is knowingly or otherwise, they are unforgiven?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

GunnSmokeer said:


> Jesus Himself said, Matthew 12:31,
> 
> “_Therefore I say to you,
> every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,
> ...



What if a Christian was saved but later switched from Trinitarian to Oneness? Would he still be covered under the "OSAS" rule?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

GunnSmokeer said:


> Jesus Himself said, Matthew 12:31,
> 
> “_Therefore I say to you,
> every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,
> ...



How would you explain that to a villager on a small Pacific Island? He probably does not believe in the Holy Spirit. Yet he becomes a Christian that gives him OSAS privileges. How was he ever forgiven of his other sins to become a Christian in the first place? He had already not believed in the Holy Spirit. Unless it only effects Christians who stop believing in the Trinity later. Then that would make OSAS not true.

Would this mean the Pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit could never become Christians? How could one blaspheme something they have no knowledge of? Perhaps one would need to have the Holy Spirit to know it's real.


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## Vectorman (Feb 20, 2017)

I think that we've gotten way too concerned about have I or have I not ever blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Since Jesus isn't walking the earth today doing supernatural miracles and since we have never accused those miracles of being the work of satan then don't be concerned about if sometime in our lifetime have we blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

 As far as the initial question about how do we really know if we are saved or not is simply determining what it is we are basing our salvation on. If we think it is because we said a sinners prayer or we walked down an aisle at the invitation or if we have felt sorry enough for our sin then we have a reason to be concerned. Salvation has nothing to do with a prayer or an invitation walk or if I am sorry for my sin enough, it is simply about who are you trusting for your salvation. If I'm trusting in anything but the finished work of Christ, that is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ(God the Son) then the answer is I'm probably not saved. If I feel that I need to contribute(works) anything more than trusting what He did then I'm probably lost.

As far as OSAS, the answer to this question lies in another question. Can you be unborn? Can the spirit that is birthed in you at the moment of salvation be unbirthed? The answer of course is no it cannot, once a person trust in the finished work of Christ for salvation then no they cannot later by some act loose that salvation.

Vectorman


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## ricksconnected (Mar 1, 2017)

so God takes back his word? his gift?


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 1, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> so God takes back his word? his gift?



Romans 11:29
For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.


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## ricksconnected (Mar 1, 2017)

good reply. that's how I kinda figured it was.


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## ricksconnected (Mar 3, 2017)

every day above ground is a gift.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 3, 2017)

Banjo Picker said:


> How many of the gifts do you have ?



I have one gift and/or calling. Read the context that Romans 11:29 is used. 
God never changes his mind when he gives gifts OR when he calls someone.

Previous verse;
28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.

Preceding verses;
30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all. 

The next verses explain how God's grace and mercy works;
33O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways! 34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?”


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## ricksconnected (Mar 4, 2017)

the scriptures don't say we take it away either. 
of course we are gonna sin again. he knows that. 
but, we have the gift of forgiveness so that when we
ask for forgiveness we can know that we have received it.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 4, 2017)

Banjo Picker said:


> No, you take it away when you sin again! you loose it till you do your first works again. If I or you think that we can keep on sinning because people believe once saved always saved then we don't need to repent any more or need the Bible then because every one is going to Heaven, we can live any way we want, an every thing is ok, I really don't think that's what the Scriptures saying.



Could you explain that a little more as I'm not following you. One is saved until he sins again and that takes away his salvation. Then one must do his first works again. I'm not sure I understand what that means.


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## ricksconnected (Mar 4, 2017)

Banjo Picker said:


> Ok what if you don't ask for forgiveness? And die




do you seriously think that when one dies he/she does so w/o sin on their plate?


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 4, 2017)

Banjo Picker said:


> God does not take it away I or you or whoever does as soon as they sin (James 1:14, 15)
> (14).But every man is tempted, when he is draw away of his own lust, and enticed.
> (15). Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



I understand the I or you taking salvation away. I don't understand how to regain it. You said "then one must do his first works again." I'm not sure I understand what that means.
My first works was "surrendering" all to Jesus. When I sin and lose my salvation, what must I do to regain it? What works must I do to regain my salvation?


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## ricksconnected (Mar 4, 2017)

salvation is not gained by works. the bible is VERY clear on that.
if it were by works then it could not then be a gift then could it?
it would mean something you got on your own and not given to you by the Lord almighty.


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## M80 (Mar 9, 2017)

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
CensoredCensored1 John‬ Censored5:4-5‬ CensoredKJV‬‬
http://bible.com/1/1jn.5.4-5.kjv

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
CensoredCensoredRevelation‬ Censored3:5‬ CensoredKJV‬‬
http://bible.com/1/rev.3.5.kjv

When I got saved I over came the world through Christ Jesus. Therefore I have already overcame the world. Rev 3:5 that many people try and use to say God will blot your name out of the book of life is basing there belief off of one verse. Seeing that we have already overcame the world Rev 3:5 actually gives us assurance that he WILL NOT blot out our names because we have already overcame the world. God Bless you all and this my friends is shouting grounds.


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 9, 2017)

formula1 said:


> I'm going to try to answer my best to answer your questions.  If you need more info, just let me know.
> 
> First let me say that we would not know how to be saved without the scriptures so it always has to be a part of our understanding.  But I know what you are asking!
> 
> ...




As always,  Great post.  

I agree.  Once saved:Always saved, but No evidence:Not saved.


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## j_seph (Mar 9, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> What if a Christian was saved but later switched from Trinitarian to Oneness? Would he still be covered under the "OSAS" rule?


Off Topic
How does Oneness explain Matthew 27:46


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## hummerpoo (Mar 9, 2017)

mwilliams80 said:


> “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
> CensoredCensored1 Johnâ€¬ Censored5:4-5â€¬ CensoredKJVâ€¬â€¬
> http://bible.com/1/1jn.5.4-5.kjv
> 
> ...



Amen!


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 9, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Off Topic
> How does Oneness explain Matthew 27:46



Matthew 27:46
At about three o'clock, Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"

I'm not sure. I'm not a Oneness believer but I guess it's the same as it would be if Jesus was 1/3 of the equal Godhead.
Either way the Godhead had to leave Jesus in order for him to die even if for a moment.
I can see your point if 1/3rd can talk to the other 1/3 being easier than  God himself incarnate talking to himself.

They believe God himself incarnate as Jesus instead of Jesus(pre-exisiting spirit) himself incarnate as a man(Jesus becoming a man).

Therefore under Oneness, God can't be all three at the same time. The process would still be the same though. The God part of Jesus would have to leave the man part of Jesus. Some Trinitarians believe Jesus gave up his deity when he came to earth and used God the Father's powers.

So in this way perhaps Oneness believers believe Jesus gave up this same deity even though they believe it is only a deity with one part. 

Philippians 2:6-8
6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.

Interesting question. I did find this on how Oneness see Jesus praying to God the Father;

Oneness theology maintains that God is uni-personal in nature. This uni-personal God Himself became a man, and yet continued to exist beyond the incarnation as the transcendent and exclusive Spirit as He always had prior to the incarnation. The deity of the Son and the deity of the Father, then, are not two distinct divine persons in the Godhead as in Trinitarian theology, but the same person in two distinct modes1 of existence. God now exists as a genuine man in the incarnation (Son), and yet continues to exist as God beyond the incarnation (Father). The Father is deity alone, while the Son is that same personal deity in metaphysical union with human nature, and thus a real human being. 

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/jesusprayers3.htm


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