# Question for non-believers.....



## CAL (Oct 1, 2010)

What would you non-believers need to convert you to Christianity? God's word only ask for the"faith the size of a mustard seed".


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## dexrusjak (Oct 1, 2010)

CAL said:


> What would you non-believers need to convert you to Christianity? God's word only ask for the"faith the size of a mustard seed".



Proof.


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

Buddha's head on a silver plate.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 2, 2010)

Evidence.


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## jason4445 (Oct 2, 2010)

Most likely the best thing to convert the non believer would be for those who yap about Jesus the most  simply would quit yapping and start acting like Jesus.  It has been my experience over an over that Stalwart Christians do more running people away from Christianity than ever converting them.


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## ambush80 (Oct 2, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Most likely the best thing to convert the non believer would be for those who yap about Jesus the most  simply would quit yapping and start acting like Jesus.  It has been my experience over an over that Stalwart Christians do more running people away from Christianity than ever converting them.




The problem with that is that some people interpret Jesus/God to be wrathful; a tough guy like Rambo, kicking over tables and flogging people with a switch.  Others, like you, see Jesus as calm and gentle.  My guess is that the kind of Jesus that appeals to someone has to do with the kind of person they are or that they admire.  

That's why when you ask "what would Jesus do?" what you really come up with is "what would I do."


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## pnome (Oct 4, 2010)

CAL said:


> What would you non-believers need to convert you to Christianity? God's word only ask for the"faith the size of a mustard seed".



John 20:25


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## Havana Dude (Oct 4, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Most likely the best thing to convert the non believer would be for those who yap about Jesus the most  simply would quit yapping and start acting like Jesus.  It has been my experience over an over that Stalwart Christians do more running people away from Christianity than ever converting them.



There is a smidge of truth to what you say. However, if that is all that is keeping you away from believing, then come on and get on the train. There are none rightious,not me, you, or anyone else. Put your faith in God, and don't worry about what others are doing. Man will lead you somewhere you don't want to go.

All man can do is attempt to be like Jesus. But we will never ever come close. Putting the blame on believers for not being perfect is nothing more than an excuse IMHO.


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## earl (Oct 4, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> There is a smidge of truth to what you say. However, if that is all that is keeping you away from believing, then come on and get on the train. There are none rightious,not me, you, or anyone else. Put your faith in God, and don't worry about what others are doing. Man will lead you somewhere you don't want to go.
> 
> All man can do is attempt to be like Jesus. But we will never ever come close. Putting the blame on believers for not being perfect is nothing more than an excuse IMHO.






And there in is a problem. As you indicate in your post man will never be able to do all the things required in the Bible. Why would a person want to spend eternity with some one who demands unattainable perfection and hold your soul in balance. Narcissistic at best ,sadistic at worst.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 7, 2010)

earl said:


> And there in is a problem. As you indicate in your post man will never be able to do all the things required in the Bible. Why would a person want to spend eternity with some one who demands unattainable perfection and hold your soul in balance. Narcissistic at best ,sadistic at worst.



Where does it say God demands unattainable perfection? Quite the contrary. Adam took care of that in the garden. I said all we can do is try. The only demand God puts on me, to be able to spend eternity in heaven is to accept him as my saviour. I was born a sinner, I am a sinner, and I always will be a sinner while on this earth. I have free will to do whatever I want to do as long as I am willing to accept the consequences. I do not have free will to "expect" anything from God. He commands we must accept him as our saviour, or spend eternity in he!!. And it's simple and free.

Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.


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## fish hawk (Oct 8, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> The problem with that is that some people interpret Jesus/God to be wrathful; a tough guy like Rambo, kicking over tables and flogging people with a switch.  Others, like you, see Jesus as calm and gentle.  My guess is that the kind of Jesus that appeals to someone has to do with the kind of person they are or that they admire.
> 
> That's why when you ask "what would Jesus do?" what you really come up with is "what would I do."



Funny.....Jesus did do a little table kickin
Mark 11:15-17 

 15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves,16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts.17 And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written:
   " 'My house will be called
      a house of prayer for all nations'? But you have made it 'a den of robbers.


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## earl (Oct 8, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> Where does it say God demands unattainable perfection? Quite the contrary. Adam took care of that in the garden. I said all we can do is try. The only demand God puts on me, to be able to spend eternity in heaven is to accept him as my saviour. I was born a sinner, I am a sinner, and I always will be a sinner while on this earth. I have free will to do whatever I want to do as long as I am willing to accept the consequences. I do not have free will to "expect" anything from God. He commands we must accept him as our saviour, or spend eternity in he!!. And it's simple and free.
> 
> Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.






You answered your own question .

''I am a sinner, and I always will be a sinner while on this earth. ''


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## CAL (Oct 8, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> Where does it say God demands unattainable perfection? Quite the contrary. Adam took care of that in the garden. I said all we can do is try. The only demand God puts on me, to be able to spend eternity in heaven is to accept him as my saviour. I was born a sinner, I am a sinner, and I always will be a sinner while on this earth. I have free will to do whatever I want to do as long as I am willing to accept the consequences. I do not have free will to "expect" anything from God. He commands we must accept him as our saviour, or spend eternity in he!!. And it's simple and free.
> 
> Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.



Dang Dude,what a mouth full.Didn't know ya had it in ya.Excellent explination,thanks for it!


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## Senoj (Oct 8, 2010)

New to the forum...eventually plan to hook up with some other members that reload and stumbled over this forum. I dont normally get involved with these debates for several reasons but decided to comment anyway. I was suprised at the "religous" subforums when i browsed throw the main page.

To the believers in these threads..i have no doubt your intentions are good but i have seen alot of posts here that are not in accordance with the Text. God humbled Himself, left the heavens in the form of a man, Jesus, and  presented Himself to this earth as a servant, lowly and meek. We know God in His divine nature has different emotions and we are not capable as humans to comprehend them in whole but the Word is plainly clear of His merciful and loving nature. In the gospels, He gave believers the perfect example of how we are to spread the good news of salvation. Jesus told the diciples He came to the earth to save ALL of us, NOT to condem us. There are comments from believers here with a message of nothing more than condemnation....This is not of God. That is not the message God desires of us to give. It in no way represents who He is.

Some of you are simply argueing with these guys/ladies.  If your motives are pure, how do you expect to help any unbeliever to understand the true nature of Christ and what He has freely offered to ALL of us if you are in an arguement and sarcasticly responding at times? If i were not yet a believer, i dont think i would want any part of that message.

The Text tells us plainly we are all the same, all have sinned and all have fell short of Gods glory. Why do some of you let your pride interrupt and begin to act as if you are better than a non believer or that they are lesser of a person than you? Maybe you do not have that motive but i bet thats the way it comes across to the unbelievers here. No one would respond to that...I dont blame them, do you?

Salvation is a free gift. Salvation is the result of Gods great mercy on all of us that have been born on this earth since Genesis 1:1. God desires a rightous life but what He desires most and first is YOU. After a man or woman has accepted Christ and has confessed Jesus is the risen Saviour and the Son of the only living God, a progressively rightous life is just fruit or a result of first accepting this free gift. Once the Spirit has been sent and begins to dwell in us, sure, we ourselves desire these things more and more but God does not desire our works alone, he desires an eternal relationship with each and every one of us because we all are His creation and He loves His creation. 

The Word says while we were yet sinners, Christ came to make the atonement ANYWAY. In other words, He went to the Cross for me KNOWING 2000 years later i would sin, sin, sin. Guess what?..I have and still do. None of us have any room, right, or credentials to condem anybody. I dont care how holy you think you are, how much money you drop in the plate or how many little old ladies you helped across the street...we all deserve an eternal life seperated from Christ, but the one true living God of all creation said NO! NO! He sent Jesus to bear it all. He didnt have to but He did. Thats not a condeming God, that is a merciful God. Our works alone will not bring us into Glory when we have died the natural death, only a relationship and acceptance with Christ will. 

The apostle Paul (then Saul)once persecuted and killed Christians because they were Christians. We now revere him as one of the greatest if not the greatest follower of Christ in Gods Word. How in the world can any believer foolishly condem anybody? Dont try to debate and convince an unbeliever of happenings in the Bible that we ourselves can not even comprehend in this form. All we know is God spoke the words and creation was created so naturally, He has no problem dividing the red sea or things such as that. Instead, present the true message of salvation. It is plainly and simply stated in John 3:16. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no room for our pride in the message of salvation, there is no room for condemnation in the message of salvation. Dont give someone the wrong view of God and Jesus Christ by acting/talking in any condeming fasion.

I got on a soap box so if this is not the approach you take as a believer, this is not directed at you. If you know you have/are conducting yourselves like this, do not take offense, do not allow your pride to control your emotins and just get mad. REALIZE each time you speak with a confessing non believer that this is a matter of a soul!, A precious soul that the Father SO longs to accept into the Kingdom when time has ended. Their souls are as precious to the Fathers' as ours. Never forget that. That is Christ's message of salvation that we are to share.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 8, 2010)

pnome said:


> John 20:25



I find it ironic that one of the most fervent atheists on this forum quotes Scripture.   And I do so love irony!  

Pnone- Did you know that a significant number of Christ's interactions he has with the 'religious' folks of His day he quoted Scripture to them, just like you did?  Careful, or you just might end up liking this Jesus guy more than you imagine.


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## earl (Oct 8, 2010)

Senoj said:


> New to the forum...eventually plan to hook up with some other members that reload and stumbled over this forum. I dont normally get involved with these debates for several reasons but decided to comment anyway. I was suprised at the "religous" subforums when i browsed throw the main page.
> 
> To the believers in these threads..i have no doubt your intentions are good but i have seen alot of posts here that are not in accordance with the Text. God humbled Himself, left the heavens in the form of a man, Jesus, and  presented Himself to this earth as a servant, lowly and meek. We know God in His divine nature has different emotions and we are not capable as humans to comprehend them in whole but the Word is plainly clear of His merciful and loving nature. In the gospels, He gave believers the perfect example of how we are to spread the good news of salvation. Jesus told the diciples He came to the earth to save ALL of us, NOT to condem us. There are comments from believers here with a message of nothing more than condemnation....This is not of God. That is not the message God desires of us to give. It in no way represents who He is.
> 
> ...





Dang. 
Dang.

Welcome to the forum. 

Dang.

I mean that in a good way.
Dang.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 8, 2010)

earl said:


> And there in is a problem. As you indicate in your post man will never be able to do all the things required in the Bible.



OUTSTANDING questions earl!

Don't pass by this point.  That is a VERY common misunderstanding.  The Bible is not a list of rules that need to be upheld to be right in God's eyes.  

Rather it's design is to show us we are incapable of attaining that righteousness on our own.  Instead we need a Savior.

Galatians 3:24-25  So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.




earl said:


> Why would a person want to spend eternity with some one who demands unattainable perfection and hold your soul in balance. Narcissistic at best ,sadistic at worst.



May I instead pose this question to you:  Why would a good, loving God possibly force Himself on someone that doesn't want Him?  Wouldn't that be narcissistic at best, sadistic at worst?  That's the basis of free will, and any real relationship.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 8, 2010)

Senoj said:


> New to the forum....



Convicting stuff right there.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 9, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> I find it ironic that one of the most fervent atheists on this forum quotes Scripture.   And I do so love irony!
> 
> Pnone- Did you know that a significant number of Christ's interactions he has with the 'religious' folks of His day he quoted Scripture to them, just like you did?  Careful, or you just might end up liking this Jesus guy more than you imagine.



You would be surprised how much of the bible many agnostics and atheists are familiar with.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 9, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> You would be surprised how much of the bible many agnostics and atheists are familiar with.



In some cases, *a little* knowledge is dangerous.


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## earl (Oct 9, 2010)

May I instead pose this question to you: Why would a good, loving God possibly force Himself on someone that doesn't want Him? Wouldn't that be narcissistic at best, sadistic at worst? That's the basis of free will, and any real relationship.

Once more you answer your own question.

''that be narcissistic at best, sadistic at worst''
Believe in me or burn for eternity.


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## earl (Oct 9, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> In some cases, *a little* knowledge is dangerous.



''Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.''


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## Havana Dude (Oct 9, 2010)

earl said:


> ''Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.''



Whats your point?

Earl, you have been exposed to what we believe to be the way to heaven. Nothing else we can do for you. It is up to you to accept, or reject. I'm truly sorry you choose the latter. It is so simple. I will pose one question to you. And I would like a sincere answer, no double talk, or turning my words around. What is it about God, Christianity, faith, that scares you so much? What do you have to lose on this earth if you simply asked God to come into your heart?
OK, 2 questions


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## VisionCasting (Oct 9, 2010)

earl said:


> ''Believe me, I understand why some would question anything having to do with God. That is where your faith kicks in. I can't "prove" anything to you, and I will not try to. I can't prove it for myself. I just have faith, childlike faith as a matter of fact.''



There is the rub! 

If something can be 'proved', it wouldn't require faith.

Faith is the bridge that moves us from evidence to belief (in any subject).


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## earl (Oct 9, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> Whats your point?
> 
> Earl, you have been exposed to what we believe to be the way to heaven. Nothing else we can do for you. It is up to you to accept, or reject. I'm truly sorry you choose the latter. It is so simple. I will pose one question to you. And I would like a sincere answer, no double talk, or turning my words around. What is it about God, Christianity, faith, that scares you so much? What do you have to lose on this earth if you simply asked God to come into your heart?
> OK, 2 questions




Nothing scares me about any of those . I have seen God firsthand  in his followers ,the only way he can be physically seen. 99.9% is ugly .

Unless God spoke directly to me and convinced me that his way was the way for me,any request from me would be completely insincere, dishonest , and a cover my butt only action.
I have been down the sincere path before . See my Psalm 23 thread for a better explanation. You may not agree with it but that is how I feel.


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## earl (Oct 9, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> There is the rub!
> 
> If something can be 'proved', it wouldn't require faith.
> 
> Faith is the bridge that moves us from evidence to belief (in any subject).





Sorry, that was a partial quote from Havana Dude .


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## Havana Dude (Oct 9, 2010)

earl said:


> Nothing scares me about any of those . I have seen God firsthand  in his followers ,the only way he can be physically seen. 99.9% is ugly .
> 
> Unless God spoke directly to me and convinced me that his way was the way for me,any request from me would be completely insincere, dishonest , and a cover my butt only action.
> I have been down the sincere path before . See my Psalm 23 thread for a better explanation. You may not agree with it but that is how I feel.



Well, at least you acknowledge it must be sincere. 

And I can agree with you on the point of what you/me, or anyone else may see in his followers, can at times turn one off. I see your point. But my point in this is, to not put your faith in man, or your trust in man, but to put it in God. As I said prior, you know what we believe to be the way, and it is your choice. I just sincerely wish you could see what all God has to offer you. Not religion, but a personal relationship with him.


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## pacecars (Oct 10, 2010)

For all those that do not believe in God and accept Jesus Christ...is it really worth the risk if you are wrong? What does it cost you to live morally and ethically?


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## TTom (Oct 10, 2010)

Pacecar, you don't see the insult in that last line do you?

The idea that without believing in YOUR version of God that someone can't live a moral life or have ethics.

It is that exact type of hypocrisy (Judge not lest you be judged) that horse flop narcissistic, provincial, holier than though attitude that lost me to your organized money collection, politically motivated christian churches.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 10, 2010)

TTom said:


> Pacecar, you don't see the insult in that last line do you?
> 
> The idea that without believing in YOUR version of God that someone can't live a moral life or have ethics.
> 
> It is that exact type of hypocrisy (Judge not lest you be judged) that horse flop narcissistic, provincial, holier than though attitude that lost me to your organized money collection, politically motivated christian churches.



Ah, see, we are not talking about religion or church. Somehow, somewhere there is a disconnect. Look, I am FAR from deserving a relationship with God. I am NOT perfect, and no, I am not a shining example for God 24/7. If I were perfect, I would BE God. I'm not.It takes alot for some christians to admit that. How can anyone say on here that what you see in me( which by the way, you can't online) is a turnoff to christianity. That is putting your faith in man. How bout that?, ya'll do have faith, just not in the right place. I do know what is in my heart, and what could be in your heart. But Earl said it best when he spoke of being sincere. He is right. If it is not sincere, and just a mere "save my behind" attempt, then yes,it is hollow.

Still have not heard a valid response to what there is to fear by having a relationship with God. All I got was, "I don't fear those things" . Gotta do better than that. Or not, your choice.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 10, 2010)

I thought of something else. 

Ya'll are so busy watching what others do,say, and how they act. You do exactly what pacecars was just accused of doing, judging. Which by the way he wasn't, I know him, and he is not like that. I can only speak for myself, but there is no judging going on here. We are commanded to "pass the word" if you will. Thats simply all we are doing. I am no better than anyone on this board, or in this world. I am not deserving. So don't call me a hypocrit. Look up the word. It is not me. As I said, I may not be perfect, but that does not make me a hypocrit.


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## pacecars (Oct 10, 2010)

TTom said:


> Pacecar, you don't see the insult in that last line do you?
> 
> The idea that without believing in YOUR version of God that someone can't live a moral life or have ethics.
> 
> It is that exact type of hypocrisy (Judge not lest you be judged) that horse flop narcissistic, provincial, holier than though attitude that lost me to your organized money collection, politically motivated christian churches.





Nope. I don't see an insult anywhere in anything I wrote. I also don't see where I judged you. I also do not see where I specified any morals or ethics. I pretty much left that up to you and you jumped at it and flew off the handle. I am far from perfect and may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but i am sure of where I am going when I die.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 10, 2010)

pacecars said:


> For all those that do not believe in God and accept Jesus Christ...is it really worth the risk if you are wrong? What does it cost you to live morally and ethically?



Could you be any more condescending?


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## earl (Oct 10, 2010)

. I do live morally and ethically just fine without your God . I have absolutely nothing to fear OR gain by a belief in Him. Are you so fearful of death and so envious of a god's eternal life that you say you believe to cover all bases ?


''Still have not heard a valid response to what there is to fear by having a relationship with God. All I got was, "I don't fear those things" . Gotta do better than that. Or not, your choice.''


Not sure what kind of response you think this question deserves. There is no fear involved. There is no need for your God on my part . What don't you understand? Kind of like my asking why you FEAR using a Mac-10 on a black bear .


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## pacecars (Oct 10, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> Could you be any more condescending?



How is my question condecending? I didn't say I was better or put anyone down. I asked a simple question of those who claim to be atheists if they can afford to be wrong. 

I hear more condecescion and attitude from the people who are offended just because I am sure about my beliefs.


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## CAL (Oct 10, 2010)

earl said:


> . I do live morally and ethically just fine without your God . I have absolutely nothing to fear OR gain by a belief in Him. Are you so fearful of death and so envious of a god's eternal life that you say you believe to cover all bases ?
> 
> 
> ''Still have not heard a valid response to what there is to fear by having a relationship with God. All I got was, "I don't fear those things" . Gotta do better than that. Or not, your choice.''
> ...



No doubt a person can live morally and ethically without God in his or her life.I believe one can.The big difference I see is one without God doesn't really know how good it could be with God.You only think you are happy right now without God.It just doesn't get any better than a life with God.I challenge you earl or anyone else here that reads this to take my invitation.Give God a chance in your life,it just don't get any better.Try it and see for yourself.Keep your negative comments,they make no difference to a Christian.Open your heart and allow Jesus to come in,you will see how good and peaceful life can be.I wish I knew a better way to describe it!

Peace and Blessings to you.


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## TTom (Oct 10, 2010)

@ Havana Well when Pacecar who I was addressing my comment to said If you don't "Believe in God accept Jesus", that made it about all those things you claimed it wasn't about. 

@ Pacecar

I was right you lack the ability to see it from the other side.

I'm sure you'll deny it again instead of taking the fact that 3 people told you it came off as judgmental and insulting and looking at it with any sense of empathy. It couldn't possibly be that they told you honestly that they found it insulting and judgmental.


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## earl (Oct 10, 2010)

Been there ,done that ,got the Tshirt and the scars. Once is more than enough .


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 11, 2010)

pacecars said:


> For all those that do not believe in God and accept Jesus Christ...is it really worth the risk if you are wrong? What does it cost you to live morally and ethically?



I accepted Jesus Christ for a long time.  I wanted to believe in God but like the tooth fairy, et al, I gave up trying to make it make sense a number of years ago.   So how do I get to heaven?  I don't believe in deities.  Should I fake it?  What's the point of that?  By all means, if I get there and see a magic invisible man in the sky telling me I'm going to hades, that will be proof positive for me.  If not, I'll continue to stink until they slide me into the incinerator.

Here's another question though, why do people like you even bother to pose the question?  The whole "what's the harm in giving in to God?" question sounds like you have doubts of your own.  

It costs me nothing to live morally and ethically.  Thanks for inquiring.


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## mickbear (Oct 11, 2010)

pacecars said:


> For all those that do not believe in God and accept Jesus Christ...is it really worth the risk if you are wrong? What does it cost you to live morally and ethically?


are you saying i dont live a moral life because i dont accept YOUR jesus as my god?and folks wonder why people have the views of religion they do


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## Havana Dude (Oct 11, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Here's another question though, why do people like you even bother to pose the question?  The whole "what's the harm in giving in to God?" question sounds like you have doubts of your own.



I'm not Pacecars, but I am one of the "people like you". The answer is because we care. We could simply turn our heads and say we don't care where you spend eternity, but we don't. That would be easy. We are commanded to tell others about what God has to offer. We have done that. Ball's in your court, time for us to move on.

When PC said to all of those who do not believe in God etc., he was addressing those who are self proclaimed non-believers. He is not being judgemental. It is a greeting, not unlike writing a letter, and starting it off "Dear ______". Taking pieces and parts of someones thread, and twisting their words get us nowhere.


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## Ridge Walker (Oct 11, 2010)

pacecars said:


> For all those that do not believe in God and accept Jesus Christ...is it really worth the risk if you are wrong? What does it cost you to live morally and ethically?



The insult here, for those that don't seem to see it, is the implication that unless you believe in God and accept Jesus Christ you can't live morally and ethically. Is that really what you believe pacecars?

RW


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## earl (Oct 11, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> I'm not Pacecars, but I am one of the "people like you". The answer is because we care. We could simply turn our heads and say we don't care where you spend eternity, but we don't. That would be easy. We are commanded to tell others about what God has to offer. We have done that. Ball's in your court, time for us to move on.
> 
> When PC said to all of those who do not believe in God etc., he was addressing those who are self proclaimed non-believers. He is not being judgemental. It is a greeting, not unlike writing a letter, and starting it off "Dear ______". Taking pieces and parts of someones thread, and twisting their words get us nowhere.





The Christians who truly care are few and far between, They are very obvious in their approach and mannerisms. 
The rest are busybodies who think they are better than others. 
It is very easy to tell them apart. Listen to how they phrase their questions and how condescending they are .
I read a lot of condescending and ''I'm better than you '' in this thread. And yes I can say that  because I have seen the same thing over and over for well over 50 years.


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## pacecars (Oct 11, 2010)

Ridge Walker said:


> The insult here, for those that don't seem to see it, is the implication that unless you believe in God and accept Jesus Christ you can't live morally and ethically. Is that really what you believe pacecars?
> 
> RW



I put my statement in two seperate parts, hince the punctuation mark. Maybe I should have left the morally and ethically part out as it detracts from the first question. You can act morally and ethically based on the laws of the land but please remember we are a nation founded on the rule of law and that whether you choose to believe it or not, those laws that came from our founding fathers are based in faith.

I had no intention of insulting anyone, i only asked a question of those self professed individuals who say they do not believe in God. 

The phrasing of the second part was meant to say that God gives you a compass with which to guide you in living morally and ethically. If you can live morally and ethically without God in your life than I am glad that you can but saddened at the same time that you are missing out on a wonderful experience. 

I also never said where is the harm in giving in I said can you afford the risk? Big difference. 

While it doeas at time seem futile to attempt to have discusions with Athiests it does sometimes work as can be exhibited by the number 1 atheist Madeline O'Hare's son becoming a Christian. In borrowing a page from all the gunhaters playbook: "If it saves one life then it is worth it".

Please have a nice day and I will take my condescension and lack of empathy back to work with me at the police department.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 11, 2010)

earl said:


> the christians who truly care are few and far between, they are very obvious in their approach and mannerisms.
> The rest are busybodies who think they are better than others.
> It is very easy to tell them apart. Listen to how they phrase their questions and how condescending they are .
> I read a lot of condescending and ''i'm better than you '' in this thread. And yes i can say that  because i have seen the same thing over and over for well over 50 years.



ok.


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## holton27596 (Oct 11, 2010)

There is a smidge of truth to what you say. However, if that is all that is keeping you away from believing, then come on and get on the train. There are none rightious,not me, you, or anyone else. Put your faith in God, and don't worry about 

Far more than a smidgen. I grew up in south ga in the southern baptist church. These are the most close minded, hypocritical, immoral people i have ever seen. there are some good ones out there, but every church I attended was 90% hypocrites, usually including the preacher.


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## pacecars (Oct 11, 2010)

There are bad apples everywhere. the Pharrasis (spelling not close I think) were supposed to be the most pious but we see what that word has come to mean now,


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## pacecars (Oct 11, 2010)

Now speaking of Christians.......let me tell you about my Sharps rifle   !!


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 11, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> I'm not Pacecars, but I am one of the "people like you". The answer is because we care. We could simply turn our heads and say we don't care where you spend eternity, but we don't. That would be easy. We are commanded to tell others about what God has to offer. We have done that. Ball's in your court, time for us to move on.



Glad you feel that way.  Some other "people like you" could take a hint from you.



Havana Dude said:


> Taking pieces and parts of someones thread, and twisting their words get us nowhere.



Pretty sure I addressed his entire post and thanked him for his inquiry.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 11, 2010)

holton27596 said:


> Far more than a smidgen. I grew up in south ga in the southern baptist church. These are the most close minded, hypocritical, immoral people i have ever seen. there are some good ones out there, but every church I attended was 90% hypocrites, usually including the preacher.



Well, you can't get much more judgemental than that.

What do you want to see when you look at a christian? Not physical appearance, but what is it you want to see in us.You do the very thing you accuse believers of when you say 90% are hypocrits that you have encountered. Thats like me saying an athiest can't be moral, or honest etc. Simply not true, and would be a JUDGEMENT call on my part. How do you define a hypocrite? What are the boundaries?  I could call you a hypocrite for saying what you said about the 90%. Reason is, you don't want to be judged, yet you do it your self. Like if I stood firm against abortion, but drove my daughter to the clinic to get one, and pay for it. Same thing right?


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## holton27596 (Oct 11, 2010)

judge away Im used to it. I am also the least hypocritical person you will ever meet. i practice what I "preach". And i am the same anywhere you see me.


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## davidstaples (Oct 14, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> You would be surprised how much of the bible many agnostics and atheists are familiar with.



Agreed.  I'm agnostic, but grew up in a household where my father was baptist and my mother was a Christian Scientist.  (No, not scientology.  There's a difference.  Go look it up.)  I've visited churches with friends who were Methodist, Episcopalian, Seventh Day Adventist and Lutheran among others.  I've had my fair share of exposure to scripture.  But I'm still of the belief that there could be a higher power (call it whatever you like) or there may not be.  I don't know and neither do you.


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## davidstaples (Oct 14, 2010)

Havana Dude said:


> Still have not heard a valid response to what there is to fear by having a relationship with God. All I got was, "I don't fear those things" . Gotta do better than that. Or not, your choice.



I don't fear having a relationship with God anymore than I fear having a relationship with the tooth fairy or Santa Claus or The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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## Bibel (Oct 17, 2010)

If someone can answer the following question for me I will convert to whatever religion they choose.......Since the beginning of time, what has caused more pain, suffering, and death to earth's creatures than religion?


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## earl (Oct 17, 2010)

Bibel said:


> If someone can answer the following question for me I will convert to whatever religion they choose.......Since the beginning of time, what has caused more pain, suffering, and death to earth's creatures than religion?





Absolutely  nothing . 
 That being said ,I hope you choose whatever religion gets you through the night. Or none ,if that works for you .


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## Havana Dude (Oct 17, 2010)

WOW, still unable to tell the difference between religion, and a personal relationship with Christ. They have nothing to do with each other.

And for the record, I agree with Earls answer to your question.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 18, 2010)

Bibel said:


> If someone can answer the following question for me I will convert to whatever religion they choose.......Since the beginning of time, what has caused more pain, suffering, and death to earth's creatures than religion?



Answer:  Sin.  

Don't worry, I won't prescribe a 'religion' for you.  You can leave religion at the door; just check out this Jesus for yourself.


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## stringmusic (Oct 18, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> Answer: * Sin.*
> 
> Don't worry, I won't prescribe a 'religion' for you.  You can leave religion at the door; just check out this Jesus for yourself.



ding.ding.ding. You win!!


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## ambush80 (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> Answer:  Sin.
> 
> Don't worry, I won't prescribe a 'religion' for you.  You can leave religion at the door; just check out this Jesus for yourself.





stringmusic said:


> ding.ding.ding. You win!!



Jesus?  Really?  The God that I imagine is way more cool than Jesus.


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## stringmusic (Oct 19, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Jesus?  Really?  The God that I imagine is way more cool than Jesus.



Jesus didnt come here to be "cool"


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Jesus?  Really?  The God that I imagine is way more cool than Jesus.



Most gods need to be imagined.  He doesn't.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> Most gods need to be imagined.  He doesn't.



Really?  What does he look like?  What does his voice sound like?


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## ambush80 (Oct 19, 2010)

"Imagination...is funny.  It makes a cloudy day sunny. Makes the bees think of honey, just like I think of you...."


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Really?  What does he look like?  What does his voice sound like?



Morgan Freeman.


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## TTom (Oct 19, 2010)

You're showing your youth, VisionCasting. LOL

otherwise you would have said a combination of George Burns (Oh God and Oh God Book 2) and Morgan Freeman (Bruce Almighty and Evan Almighty). LOL


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## davidstaples (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> Most gods need to be imagined.  He doesn't.



Maybe not, but his father does.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> Maybe not, but his father does.



1COR2:9
However, as it is written:
   "No eye has seen,
      no ear has heard,
   no mind has conceived
   what God has prepared for those who love him"


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## davidstaples (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> 1COR2:9
> However, as it is written:
> "No eye has seen,
> no ear has heard,
> ...



In other words, nobody has ever seen or heard him... therefore he must need to be "imagined" until such time as he chooses to reveal himself.  Unless he is a she.  Like in the movie Dogma.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> In other words, nobody has ever seen or heard him...



Your interpretation filter must need an alignment.    Give 'er another read.


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## crbrumbelow (Oct 19, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Buddha's head on a silver plate.



Ok.  You can go to his tomb and his bones are there.  As well as mohammeds.    I do know that Christ arose and is on a throne alive and well.


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## crbrumbelow (Oct 19, 2010)

Watch this.  its long but you will get the jist of it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864&hl=en#docid=4861697223337653283


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> Ok.  You can go to his tomb and his bones are there.  As well as mohammeds.    I do know that Christ arose and is on a throne alive and well.



Most excellent point.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 20, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> Ok.  You can go to his tomb and his bones are there.  As well as mohammeds.    I do know that Christ arose and is on a throne alive and well.




Or simply never existed at all. An empty tomb means absolutely nothing.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 20, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> Or simply never existed at all. An empty tomb means absolutely nothing.



Come on now, there is scant a reasonable scholar that entirely dismisses the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

His life has been well documented outside the 'typical' Christian writings... even by those that wish He never was.

An argument against His deity, virgin birth, resurrection, etc... is reasonable.  But not His existence.


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