# Wrong ammo question



## bowman69 (Dec 3, 2012)

There is a taurus raging bull 454 for sale in the trade/sale section the guy said in his ad that it fires 44 mag & special , which I know is wrong. it fires 45 L.C . I contacted him and he said he fired 5 44 mags thru it.. would that be enough to damage the gun ?  Thanks for any info. I was looking to buy a 454 , but not damaged.


----------



## trial&error (Dec 3, 2012)

Seems to me he either doesn't know what he's saying or he mistreats his weapon.  Personally I'd keep shopping.


----------



## SASS249 (Dec 3, 2012)

Two possibiities:
He has a raging bull 444, which is the 44 mag version

He has the raging bull 454 chambered for 454 casull.  If so the chance of any damage from firing 5 factory 44 mag is slight.  The 454 casull operates at much higher pressures than the 44 magnum (SAMI specs for 44 mag are 36,000 CUP while for 454 casull they are 50,000 CUP) and it is unlikely that anything would happen other than possible case splitting if a 44 mag were fired in a 454 casull.


----------



## tim scott (Dec 7, 2012)

i'm a little surprised they fired... no worry about damage as almost no pressure... the bullet slid out without touching and the case wasn't able to seal the rear...... but i bet the flash of excaping gas was impressive.
tim


----------



## rayjay (Dec 7, 2012)

tim scott said:


> no worry about damage as almost no pressure... the bullet slid out without touching and the case wasn't able to seal the rear......



You are making assumptions that can't be backed up. The case could easily expand enough to form a gas seal and it is entirely possible for the bullet to hit the forcing cone with poor alignment creating all kind of potential issues.


----------



## tim scott (Dec 7, 2012)

rayjay,
i do think my assumptions can be backed up... you called me now i raise you and call.... i have some forty years as a prof. trained gunsmith, some 32 years as a gun maker... i don't just r&r parts i make them from scratch, receiver included. i have over a half dozen gun designs to my credit. way back during the end of the viet nam war i worked on a project to leave ammo for the vc to pick up and use.... i found it easy to blowup ANY gun.... my loads would blow the gun and leave the shooter maimed and injured. but the government went for loads using rdx that killed the shooter... never understood their choice as this just put one person out of action.... where bad injury took out several, the injured party needing medical care and help for months or even rest of their life. so i know exactly what it takes to cause damage and blow up guns.... on the civil end i've examined over 300 blowups many of which were fatal.... i always had this thing for enjoying and studying the lenghts people go to, to cause harm to themselves. i am qualified as an expert witness and can easily be qualified in any state you wish... i have most any test equip you can think of from chrono's that measure to 12 places, excellent digital piezo transducer pressure testing to rockwell hardness testing. i'm now limited to using optical microscopes to examine parts as my old scanning electron microscope finally bit the big one....
so lets say your right and a case was able to expand and seal at the rear.... the instant the case expanded or the bullet moved there would be total venting.... just go to your book case and pull out the blueprints and overlay them.... you'll see. you do have the blueprints for chamber and case specs don't you? and as far as cylinder being out of alinement and the bullet striking the forcing cone in a manner to cause harm.... most forcing cones don't line up properly and no one ever seems to notice... in fact it's hard to find a revolver that does lineup properly. and with the gas pressure already vented the bullets couldn't have much force at all. besides if alinement was out that bad what do you think the proper cartridge would have done? the .44 mag bullet is small enough to be dropped thru the barrel and never touch anything.  
your turn... cheers
tim


----------



## Eddy M. (Dec 7, 2012)

Well my completely un-qualifed opinion is ------ if he shot 44MAGs  in his 454  what else has he done to the gun that could damage it ------- I'd be very careful about buying it--- check it out closely - or just pass


----------



## rayjay (Dec 7, 2012)

tim scott said:


> rayjay,
> i do think my assumptions can be backed up... you called me now i raise you and call.... i have some forty years as a prof. trained gunsmith, some 32 years as a gun maker... i don't just r&r parts i make them from scratch, receiver included. i have over a half dozen gun designs to my credit. way back during the end of the viet nam war i worked on a project to leave ammo for the vc to pick up and use.... i found it easy to blowup ANY gun.... my loads would blow the gun and leave the shooter maimed and injured. but the government went for loads using rdx that killed the shooter... never understood their choice as this just put one person out of action.... where bad injury took out several, the injured party needing medical care and help for months or even rest of their life. so i know exactly what it takes to cause damage and blow up guns.... on the civil end i've examined over 300 blowups many of which were fatal.... i always had this thing for enjoying and studying the lenghts people go to, to cause harm to themselves. i am qualified as an expert witness and can easily be qualified in any state you wish... i have most any test equip you can think of from chrono's that measure to 12 places, excellent digital piezo transducer pressure testing to rockwell hardness testing. i'm now limited to using optical microscopes to examine parts as my old scanning electron microscope finally bit the big one....
> so lets say your right and a case was able to expand and seal at the rear.... the instant the case expanded or the bullet moved there would be total venting.... just go to your book case and pull out the blueprints and overlay them.... you'll see. you do have the blueprints for chamber and case specs don't you? and as far as cylinder being out of alinement and the bullet striking the forcing cone in a manner to cause harm.... most forcing cones don't line up properly and no one ever seems to notice... in fact it's hard to find a revolver that does lineup properly. and with the gas pressure already vented the bullets couldn't have much force at all. besides if alinement was out that bad what do you think the proper cartridge would have done? the .44 mag bullet is small enough to be dropped thru the barrel and never touch anything.
> your turn... cheers
> tim



Tim says firing the wrong ammo in the gun is fine so have at it.

I on the other hand can imagine the bullet arriving at the forcing cone with the front end rubbing one side of the cyl and the back end of the bullet rubbing the other side. In other words the bullet is not in line with the bore. A jacketed bullet hitting the forcing cone like this asymmetric impact couldn't do the back end of the bbl any good. Even if the bullet is only traveling a few hundred FPS. Since the OP is asking about buying a used gun I would pass.


----------



## tim scott (Dec 8, 2012)

rayjay,
now where did i say that... i said that combination won't hurt anything.... if you did have chamber and cartridge blueprints you'd see the bullet can't turn sideways. there's probably hundreds of ammo combinations that can be fired with no ill effects .38 special in a .357 mag thats the wrong ammo but perfectly safe and done all the time.... the funniest combinations are things like .243 in a .308. watch the fool try and site in his new scope... twisting the adjustments every which way and never even hit the target.... you get about a 20 FOOT group at a hundred yards.... no harm done to gun or shooter other than his pride when he figures out what he's done... but there are combinations that will tear the gun apart and remove body parts.... so you have to be carefull in this case the guy is a stupid idiot and eddies right i'd stay completely clear of fools like him..... wonder what things he does to his car? and wouldn't you like to be at a range and him next to you shooting his reloads?.... thats why i don't go to public ranges. reminds me of a good friends dad that always hunted with this guy.... they both had .30-06's but the other guys gun was so much louder and seemed to kick alot more... one day he asked the guy what loads he used.. the guy just named off two different powders. when asked how much? he said what do you mean how much? the guy at the gun shop said i should use either of these powders for reloading so i just scoop the case full and seat the bullet... isn't that what you do? that was the last day he ever hunted with the guy.... think about that next time your out with a friend.....
tim


----------



## harryrichdawg (Dec 8, 2012)

I personally would stay away from that gun.


----------



## big john smith (Dec 9, 2012)

^ Same here, I'd stay away


----------



## mikey (Feb 20, 2013)

go get it an try it and let us know how it works out get it on video too please


----------



## miles58 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd buy it and make him knock off $100 to take it to a smith and have it evaluated.  Personally I doubt it would hurt anything but it should be checked.  I know of people managing stupid things like touching of .308 rounds in .270 rifles and not blowing them up.  In the cases I know of, the rifles continued to shoot decently.

Dave


----------



## jmoser (Feb 28, 2013)

Honestly I would not want a Taurus new, much less one used / abused with highly questionable carelessness.

Just hope he wasn't handloading for it. 

Inspect it carefully and hold his beer while he test fires it for you .  .  .  .


----------

