# Dale Jr. fans



## bull__dawgs (Feb 11, 2010)

Is it just me or does Jr. look like a complete idiot with his hat turn backwards? The more I see of him the more I just laugh.


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## GEORGIA BULLDOG MAN (Feb 11, 2010)

jr. is a idiot, he does not have his mind right, he needs to stop driving and do his whiskey river thing. let his sister run things at dei.


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## mjfortner (Feb 11, 2010)




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## tcward (Feb 11, 2010)

bull__dawgs said:


> Is it just me or does Jr. look like a complete idiot with his hat turn backwards? The more I see of him the more I just laugh.



...it's not just you.....


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## specialk (Feb 11, 2010)

GEORGIA BULLDOG MAN said:


> ... let his sister run things at dei.



he's not the only idiot


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## cafish (Feb 11, 2010)

made to much money--need to start paying um by performance or its going to get just like the NFL AND NBA


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## ryano (Feb 12, 2010)

specialk said:


> he's not the only idiot


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## hevishot (Feb 12, 2010)

bull__dawgs said:


> Is it just me or does Jr. look like a complete idiot with his hat turn backwards? The more I see of him the more I just laugh.



yep...he is pretty much a joke...bet his diddy is rollin' over in his grave...no "guts" at all and can't walk and chew gum...much less drive a race car......daaaar daaaaar daaar daaaar.....can't wait to hear who gets the blame for his incompetence this week.........he is the type who would wear his hat on backerds and probably wears jorts too.....


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## DBM78 (Feb 12, 2010)

I watched both duel races. And Jr ran good for a while but somebody pounded him in the rear and kicked out his right rear quarter panel. After that he just hung out in the back. He led for a little bit. I guess he knew it didn't matter where he finished he still going to be on the front row.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

Let's see. There are about 50 or so teams in this world who are good enough to race in Nascar. Of course not all get to race each week but assuming my math is right...... let's see 350,000,000 in the U.S. and the 50 who are qualified to actually race in Nascar represent 0.00000014% of the population and you people call him an idiot.

Even if he never won a race, he was qualified enough to race. He had the best teacher but how many of you are better at something than the one who taught you. His daddy isn't rolling in his grave. He's smiling because he knows his kids have nothing to want for. Isn't that what you guys dream for your kids?

The only idiots I see are those who think they are expert enough to comment on ANYONE as if you are their equals, as if you could do better. Fact is you can't or you'd be there.

Could he do better? Possibly. Still, he's a multimillionaire who represents the .00000014% of the population who is qualified at that particular profession to make a living doing it.

99.9999% of you including myself could not do what he does. Makes you appreciate those who are being more successful at it, including Gordon, Johnson, Stewart and yes, when he was alive, his father.

Don't have to like him but calling someone an idiot who is ultimately a million times more successful than you is, well, idiotic in itself.

JMO


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## ribber (Feb 12, 2010)

he's where he is at today because of his daddy. he's always sucked as a driver and he'll never be half the man the intimidator was. i guess it really doesn't matter, he's rich!


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

He sucked as a driver? Half the man his father was?

That's pretty ignorant if you ask me. I guess the fact he has won at that level means nothing. Carl Edwards didn't win any last year. Does he suck now too? Labonte? I'm not a Bill Elliot fan but I guess he has always sucked since he hasn't won lately.

You people who make statements like that just aren't the brightest crop of people I know. And while he got his chance from his Daddy, since he was such the "MAN", then obviously you know the Sr would have never let Jr on the track if he wasn't qualified to do so. TO SAY ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY WOULD BE AN INSULT TO SR'S INTELLIGENCE.

Think outside the box and come out of your mother's basement and see the sunshine.


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## waterdogs (Feb 12, 2010)

He does not have to turn his hat backwards to be one. he is one no matter how her wears it.. never liked him and never will...


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## 270 guy (Feb 12, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Let's see. There are about 50 or so teams in this world who are good enough to race in Nascar. Of course not all get to race each week but assuming my math is right...... let's see 350,000,000 in the U.S. and the 50 who are qualified to actually race in Nascar represent 0.00000014% of the population and you people call him an idiot.
> 
> Even if he never won a race, he was qualified enough to race. He had the best teacher but how many of you are better at something than the one who taught you. His daddy isn't rolling in his grave. He's smiling because he knows his kids have nothing to want for. Isn't that what you guys dream for your kids? The only idiots I see are those who think they are expert enough to comment on ANYONE as if you are their equals, as if you could do better. Fact is you can't or you'd be there.
> 
> ...



Bitter are we LOL. Typical response from a JR fan.  So does Money make one a success? 

Facts JR would be nothing without his dads last name plain and simple. He gets the hype because of the name he carries not his driving abilities. There are many drivers out there that can drive his socks off but because they don't have the name that sells trinkets and goodies they aren't givin that chance. It's all about money and the name Ernhardt sells goodies plain and simple.


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## hevishot (Feb 12, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Let's see. There are about 50 or so teams in this world who are good enough to race in Nascar. Of course not all get to race each week but assuming my math is right...... let's see 350,000,000 in the U.S. and the 50 who are qualified to actually race in Nascar represent 0.00000014% of the population and you people call him an idiot.
> 
> Even if he never won a race, he was qualified enough to race. He had the best teacher but how many of you are better at something than the one who taught you. His daddy isn't rolling in his grave. He's smiling because he knows his kids have nothing to want for. Isn't that what you guys dream for your kids?
> 
> ...



I'd say the fool had an inside track into trashcar.....and I think your numbers a silly as there are many who would have O desire to drive a car in a circle for a living...his money is nothing more than his "diddy's" name....he is a mediocre driver who whines like a snotty nose baby....I'd say you paint with a broad brush in when you consider an uneducated dufus a "success"....plenty of money, sure, a success in his chosen "profession"...not even close.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

Funny, you guys are saying I'm a Jr fan. Actually I root for Stewart because I feel he is the best driver out there, including Gordon.

What I can't stand is a bunch of dumb talk about another driver. That's all you guys can say. An uneducated dufus? Dude, he knows more about a stock car than anyone of you saying he doesn't. Also, the name does sell. Nobody disputes that. HOWEVER, IT"S JUST THE NAME, WHY DOESN'T THE OTHER EARNHARDT HAVE A FULLTIME RIDE?

Remember, it's just the name. It's all the name. Well, why is it just Jr getting the ride? Shows your it's just the name to be stupid.

Funny how if anyone goes against somebody on here their bitter. My guy has a chance every week. So how can I be bitter. I just think it's funny. Seems to me Daddy made Jr earn his way. Seems to me if one follows the true story, Sr was all over Jr to learn and to work and to know the ins and outs of the sport, including the marketing aspect of it.

You guys and your uneducated reasoning is why Nascar is viewed the way it is. Stewart can outdrive Jr everyday of the week. But if he sucked so bad, why does my guy love to draft with him? Why would he trust an idiot? Fact is he doesn't have that view of him and anyone with any sense doesn't either.

I'll give you the hat turned around backwards. At some point you grow out of that. But you guys who say the rest of the stuff are just wrong. Sound like a bunch of middle school girls insulting the girl they don't like.

Also, if my numbers are so silly, add 1,000 guys, supposing they are better, and the numbers are still astronomical. Face it. He's got something you'd love to have and you never will


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

Also, just so I don't post the answer but let someone else look at it. How many Sprint Cup wins did Sr have in his first 9 or 10 years and how many did Jr have in the same timeframe?

Also, I would dare to say that with all the teams money and science, Jr faces better competition than his dad did weekend, week out. That's just my opinion on that but what does the win totals say?


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## Perry Hayes (Feb 12, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with Dale Jr. He is a great guy and makes tons of money? What we all would like to do.


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## hevishot (Feb 12, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Also, just so I don't post the answer but let someone else look at it. How many Sprint Cup wins did Sr have in his first 9 or 10 years and how many did Jr have in the same timeframe?
> 
> Also, I would dare to say that with all the teams money and science, Jr faces better competition than his dad did weekend, week out. That's just my opinion on that but what does the win totals say?



trashcar "ain't" my bag...dude...I think its a pathetic, actually.  Sr was actually a pretty pathetic father in many ways....but heck, we all measure "success" in different ways. Mediocrity in a chosen field is not a measure of success but simply average....


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## Dixiesimpleman32 (Feb 12, 2010)

some rookie race fans here.Did yall forget about his 2 bush cups and his 17 cup wins most of them when they raced without softwalls.I think he won in atlanta richmond phoenix texas dover just to name a fewplus several plate wins.He does look like a idiot with his hat backwards but i havnt seen him do that lately  and big e is probaly rolling over now and then about  some stuff he does but he does  not suck in my oppion.There is only a few drivers in the last 10 years that have won more than him.Im not a big  jr fan  i dont wear his shirt .He earned his ride and has some hard hits over the years.I hope he does something this year.green green green.


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## Sweethoneybeads (Feb 12, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Also, just so I don't post the answer but let someone else look at it. How many Sprint Cup wins did Sr have in his first 9 or 10 years and how many did Jr have in the same timeframe?
> 
> Also, I would dare to say that with all the teams money and science, Jr faces better competition than his dad did weekend, week out. That's just my opinion on that but what does the win totals say?



Let's see.....Dale Sr.'s first full year in NASCAR was 1979, which he won Rookie of the Year.  The next year in 1980, he won his first NASCAR championship.  He won two more championships in '86 and '87.  So in his first 10 years he had a ROTY and 3 championships.

Dale Jr. on the other hand, was not Rookie of the Year in 2000.  That honor went to Matt Kenseth, who has won one champioship in '03.  Other than the '04 Daytona win Jr. has not really accomplished as much as he should have.  He is the most overrated figure in sports.


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## BROWNING7WSM (Feb 12, 2010)

Would be pumping gas if it were not for that last name of his.


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## Barry Duggan (Feb 12, 2010)

Runs the high line, until he finds the wall.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

I asked how many wins did Sr. have and how many wins did Jr. have? Shows me something that you did not answer the question. I did not ask about Championships or Rookie of the year. I asked the question because I haven't bothered to look it up. Guess I will.

Pumping gas? That's a class at 'Bama isn't it? LOL !!!! Just kidding. I just think you guys are way too hard. Given the competition today, any win is tough. You can't judge it today like in Sr heyday. Would anyone on here say that Jimmie Johnson is better than Earnhardt Sr given his recent dominance? I'd bet most of you would say can't compare it. Then why is Jr compared to his father then?


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## clark22 (Feb 12, 2010)

BROWNING7WSM said:


> Would be pumping gas if it were not for that last name of his.



your correct!!!!!!


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## K80 (Feb 12, 2010)

BROWNING7WSM said:


> Would be pumping gas if it were not for that last name of his.



Most everyone is riding their fathers coattails especially in racing not just JR.


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## Sweethoneybeads (Feb 12, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> I asked how many wins did Sr. have and how many wins did Jr. have? Shows me something that you did not answer the question. I did not ask about Championships or Rookie of the year. I asked the question because I haven't bothered to look it up. Guess I will.
> 
> Pumping gas? That's a class at 'Bama isn't it? LOL !!!! Just kidding. I just think you guys are way too hard. Given the competition today, any win is tough. You can't judge it today like in Sr heyday. Would anyone on here say that Jimmie Johnson is better than Earnhardt Sr given his recent dominance? I'd bet most of you would say can't compare it. Then why is Jr compared to his father then?



Who cares about wins??????  It is championships that count.  

Off of the top of my head in 86 and 87 Sr had about 16-17 wins in TWO SEASONS (Not counting a Winston All Star) which is about two less than Jr's ENTIRE CAREER!!!!  I know for a fact off of my head that Sr. won 11 in 87. 

Just looked it up for you........Sr. had 34 Cup wins in his first full 10 years of racing.  If you want to count the famous "Pass in the Grass" Winston that would be 35 victories.......with 3 CHAMPIONSHIPS.  Jr is no where close to that.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 12, 2010)

Senior's average start position - 12.9
Junior's                                         - 15.8

Senior's Average finish position- 11.1
Junior's                                         - 14.4

Top 5 Percentage over career
   Sr- 38%
   Jr- 25%
Top 10
   Sr-63%
   Jr-40%

Career Earnings RACE ONLY WINNINGS
   Sr-$42,000,697
   Jr-$50,047,369

Average Winnings Per Race
   Sr-$62,131
   Jr-$137,872

If Senior is the undisputed greatest driver ever, which we might can all agree on, then I would say Junior has not embarrased himself when putting the numbers side by side. And Sr ran 676 races compared to Jr's 363. Numbers would say Jr has done pretty good. Especially when compared to the greatest.

Also, under the current scoring system, I would like to see if Sr still would win the championships he did. Perhaps he would. Perhaps he wouldn't.

At least do some research before you say "he sucks".


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## DBM78 (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Senior's average start position - 12.9
> Junior's                                         - 15.8
> 
> Senior's Average finish position- 11.1
> ...



Is this Math thread or Nascar? Your stats mean nothing. How can you compare race money won from 30 years ago? Did you account for inflation or what the avg was back then per race? So that takes care of your Career earnings and Winnings per race stats.


I have some stats of my own.

Of Jr's 18 wins 7 have came at either Daytona or Talladega so almost half of his wins came at a super speedway when DEI had the best cars at those tracks. But your going to say he had to drive the car. Yeah he had to drive the car but here another fact Michael Waltrip went 0 for 500 before he won 3 races with DEI and all 3 were at a super speedway. Is that a coincidence I think not.


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## hawgrider1200 (Feb 13, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> fact Michael Waltrip went 0 for 500 before he won 3 races with DEI and all 3 were at a super speedway. Is that a coincidence I think not.


He ain't won since then either, but if you will remember that race, Dale Jr was pushing him and Sr. was blocking for them. 

All you Jr haters need to leave the man alone, ya'll are jealous He qualified 2nd at Daytona this year. Don't say it's just the car cuz there are lots of folks wrecking cars out there this year. You gotta be a driver. Now he's got Danica working for him ya'll really gonna put the hate on now ain't ya?


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## builderrwc (Feb 13, 2010)

Okay to clarify...a large percentage of us now think that Jr. sucks. Even some people who used to pull for him have turned. He may not actually suck at driving, but he has given up and that is apparent. That means that he is only a face now for Nascar and not a legitimate threat so that is why we think he sucks! I personally do think that Jimmie is an equal driver to Dale Sr. but without the over the top persona. And yes I know you all will be mad, but that is what I think.


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## stikslinger (Feb 13, 2010)

this thread would have started a war three years ago. anyone have a father like that who everyone expects you to be equal to or even better? not a jr fan but most would have cracked like a egg by now. yeah he has money so thats not an issue but sometimes its more than that. trying to be your own in that shadow. im with collins on this one 17 wins and 2 busch cups. if sr wasnt his dad everyone would look at this a little different. i agree he has fallen off but its still there.


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## 270 guy (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> I asked how many wins did Sr. have and how many wins did Jr. have? Shows me something that you did not answer the question. I did not ask about Championships or Rookie of the year. I asked the question because I haven't bothered to look it up. Guess I will.
> 
> Pumping gas? That's a class at 'Bama isn't it? LOL !!!! Just kidding. I just think you guys are way too hard. Given the competition today, any win is tough. You can't judge it today like in Sr heyday. Would anyone on here say that Jimmie Johnson is better than Earnhardt Sr given his recent dominance? I'd bet most of you would say can't compare it. Then why is Jr compared to his father then?



Your joking right? Competition they all ride in a circle with the same car until this year they can now pass each other a little easier. When SR drove men were men and did what it took to get a win and if they got treated wrong they settled it after the race. Drivers today have a cake walk compared to the old real drivers. They sit in safe cars with soft walls and drive matching cars around the track compared to the old guys. As much as I don't like JJ he has proven he is a race car driver that can get it done far superior to JR. As far as JJ and SR I bet SR would put JJ in the wall in a minute if he got in his way LOL.


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## 270 guy (Feb 13, 2010)

builderrwc said:


> Okay to clarify...a large percentage of us now think that Jr. sucks. Even some people who used to pull for him have turned. He may not actually suck at driving, but he has given up and that is apparent. That means that he is only a face now for Nascar and not a legitimate threat so that is why we think he sucks! I personally do think that Jimmie is an equal driver to Dale Sr. but without the over the top persona. And yes I know you all will be mad, but that is what I think.



 I agree 100%


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

DBM78, I have been waiting for someone to say that. That's why I listed the money. Been waiting for someone to say you can't compare money from two different eras.

But to compare drivers is different huh? Same cars, same competition, same rules restrictions, etc,etc,etc. That's what's wrong here. You guys pick and choose what the bits you need to back up your "poop"  and then I love it when you say " you can't compare.......did you take into consideration........"

So DBM78, It absolutely does take care of my stats. It shows how blind some of you are and how you people have predespostions to not like someone for whatever reason. I haven't said Jr is the best. I haven't said he's even a Top5 driver in todays field.

What I have said is he doesn't suck. He has earned his own money. His Dad is not rolling over in his grave and he has done nothing to embarrass the name on his back. If it were just the name, kerry would be just as successful. You guys are just spewing stuff with nothing to back it up. 

The man has earned over $50,000,000 ON THE TRACK. But he's a dufus, idiot who can't do anything and doesn't deserve to be there? It makes you people look awful intelligent when you guys come on with your reasoning.

Also, I'll leave the math out of it. I'm sure it hurt some of you to think that hard.


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## Whiteeagle (Feb 13, 2010)

Get over it! If any of you so called "sports" out there can do a better job go to it. At least Jr. has the guts to get out there and beat & bang instead of running his mouth off without trying to race. Jr. fan or not, how much money do you have to start your own "Whiskey River"? Bet his Dad is as proud of or even prouder of him than most of your Dads are of you. Let it rest!


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## Unicoidawg (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> DBM78, I have been waiting for someone to say that. That's why I listed the money. Been waiting for someone to say you can't compare money from two different eras.
> 
> But to compare drivers is different huh? Same cars, same competition, same rules restrictions, etc,etc,etc. That's what's wrong here. You guys pick and choose what the bits you need to back up your "poop"  and then I love it when you say " you can't compare.......did you take into consideration........"
> 
> ...




Bingo...... we have a winner. He's not the best on the track by far, but he doesn't suck either............


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is there a prize with that? LOL!!!


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## hawgrider1200 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ya'll named this thread wrong, It seems none of you are Dale Jr fans. Ya'll should have named it trolling for Jr fans. My new favorite driver in the Nationwide series is Danica Patrick. I guess ya'll will be trashing her before long.


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## stikslinger (Feb 13, 2010)

already tired of hearing her name too


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## tcward (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Senior's average start position - 12.9
> Junior's                                         - 15.8
> 
> Senior's Average finish position- 11.1
> ...



you can't even begin to compare him to the greatest-RICHARD PETTY!


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

To be honest, I don't like comparing any of them. They are each their own but you get these people who just spew out stuff but never take the time to look beyond the obvious. Scares me as these people vote as well.


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## hevishot (Feb 13, 2010)

Jr would be a fry cook at Mcdonalds if "diddy didn't drive fer a livin'"....he is dumb as a stump...best equipment blah blah blah...the little boy can't get the job done.  This will be his last year on the track I imagine.....he his boss has any stones at all.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

I now stand by my previous post as strongly as ever.


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## hevishot (Feb 13, 2010)

"dew yuuuu woooon't frizeeeee wit thaut".....


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## DBM78 (Feb 13, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Ya'll named this thread wrong, It seems none of you are Dale Jr fans. Ya'll should have named it trolling for Jr fans. My new favorite driver in the Nationwide series is Danica Patrick. I guess ya'll will be trashing her before long.



Both (Patrick and Jr) have 1 fuel mileage win in the past 3 season. Good luck with that.


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## DBM78 (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> DBM78, I have been waiting for someone to say that. That's why I listed the money. Been waiting for someone to say you can't compare money from two different eras.
> 
> But to compare drivers is different huh? Same cars, same competition, same rules restrictions, etc,etc,etc. That's what's wrong here. You guys pick and choose what the bits you need to back up your "poop"  and then I love it when you say " you can't compare.......did you take into consideration........"
> 
> ...



Funny how you just skipped over the part about DEI cars and superspeedways. Maybe you should read my post again. DEI had the best cars at the plate tracks just ask Michael Waltrip. 

Since you skipped the part about DEI cars do you disagree with me on that topic?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

How's DEI doing now?

Also, hevishot, I'm sure you have to be more intelligent than you seem.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does DEI still have the best cars at the superspeedways? Could it have been the drivers?

Your missing the point. I'm just trying to say the man can drive and doesn't suck. You guys are so oblivious to anything that makes sense and will try anything to prove your point. It's silly at the extent you'll go to.


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## tiger1996 (Feb 13, 2010)

The way I see it Jr can drive.He just does not care enough to put forth the effort to stay on top of his game.The races he won and ran good he DROVE the car,but he is lazy and would rather party.Can not blame him he will always be a favorite,kinda like Bill Elliott was.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 13, 2010)

At least you can admit he can drive. Better than some on here


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## DBM78 (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Does DEI still have the best cars at the superspeedways? Could it have been the drivers?
> 
> Your missing the point. I'm just trying to say the man can drive and doesn't suck. You guys are so oblivious to anything that makes sense and will try anything to prove your point. It's silly at the extent you'll go to.



Your kidding right about DEI saying maybe its the drivers? Thats funny. They (DEI) had found something with the cars at the superspeedways from 2001 to 2004. They won 10 of the 16 races in that time period.

If thats the case and you want to say its the driver why hasn't Jr won more at HMS they have better cars then DEI. What about Waltrip he hasn't won since leaving DEI. I never said Jr sucked. Find on here where I said he sucked. I do think there are 10 better drivers than him that race every Sunday.


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## K80 (Feb 13, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Does DEI still have the best cars at the superspeedways? Could it have been the drivers?



When the DEI cars were the best, they were using Sr.'s knowledge.  Once his knowledge was outdated due to changes to the cars DEI started falling off.


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## DBM78 (Feb 14, 2010)

K80 said:


> When the DEI cars were the best, they were using Sr.'s knowledge.  Once his knowledge was outdated due to changes to the cars DEI started falling off.



I agree 100%.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

I agree with that statement and your right, you never said he sucked. I shouldn't have lumped you in with others on here. 

I felt bad for him today. He was running good. AND I DIDN'T HEAR HIM WHINE ABOUT IT for all of you who say that's all he does. 

DB, you have my apologies.


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## hawgrider1200 (Feb 14, 2010)

Yeah, he was leading then he was in second and then the next thing u know that no driving trash talking carl Edwards ran into Kevlowski and Kevlowski took Jr out with only 30 or so laps to go. Jr never whines. Ya'll jr haters need to quit trolling. bout to make me say naughty words.


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## tv_racin_fan (Feb 14, 2010)

Hawg I was so hoping Danica was going to go F1 racin. I so wanted to see her in the winners circle at Monaco.


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## tony0345 (Feb 14, 2010)

Jr, is way over rated


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm sure your more than qualified to make that statement! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 270 guy (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> I'm sure your more than qualified to make that statement! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Why wouldn't he be qualified to give his opinion? That is his opinion of JR and mine as well. Jr is a race car driver no doubt a great one NO...... he doesn't have the want to anymore plain and simple. He has to many irons in the fire that make him money these days. If your that blind and can't understand not everyone is a JR fan then take your blinders off. You sure seem to get bent about Jr to not be a fan as you said above.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm my opinion, Jr will never be like his father. Sr had to earn his respect and that is why DEI is what it is. After seniors death Jr got everything and he didn't know what it was like to work hard for something. He is what he is today because of his father.......and if he would get his head out of his butt and put in half the effort his father did, instead of partying it up and living as a celebrity he might win a few more races.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

Was that enough effort?


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## Rednec (Feb 14, 2010)

I dont care whether he can drive or not, ever since he bashed the South & battle flag, I love anything that "p's" him off.


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## tcward (Feb 14, 2010)

Rednec said:


> I dont care whether he can drive or not, ever since he bashed the South & battle flag, I love anything that "p's" him off.



When did that happen Red?


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## K80 (Feb 14, 2010)

tcward said:


> When did that happen Red?



Around 2003 or so.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

Dear Lord. So what? You people need to let it go.


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## K80 (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Dear Lord. So what? You people need to let it go.



Na that still irks me too.


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## 270 guy (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Was that enough effort?



A blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while. Let's see how he does the rest of the season. He drove like his job was on the line today, Wonder what the conversation sounded like between him and the boss before this season started.


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## DBM78 (Feb 14, 2010)

Rednec said:


> I dont care whether he can drive or not, ever since he bashed the South & battle flag, I love anything that "p's" him off.



Yeah he did an interview back in 2003-2004 and mentioned it when talking about Dega. All of the flags in the infield.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

Maybe. Mr. Bossman might have gotten into him.

I'll not bring up the flag issue here but seriously guys, more important issues in this world. And yes, I'm a southerner. Yes, I had family serve in the Civil War on our side. I hunt and fish and drink beer like most rednecks on this site and the flag issue is a nonissue to me.


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## DeepweR (Feb 14, 2010)

For all the folks bash'n JR. You ever drove a race car? Yall probably drive honda civics on 285 everyday and think your experts. The boy can drive.


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## 270 guy (Feb 14, 2010)

deep'we R said:


> For all the folks bash'n JR. You ever drove a race car? Yall probably drive honda civics on 285 everyday and think your experts. The boy can drive.



LOL Us driving a race car has nothing to do with Jr's driving ability.... Were not getting paid to perform for a crowd he is and hasn't done such a hot job of it lately until the last few laps of todays race..


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

He's done enough to ear over $50,000,000 in race winnings. This does not include endorsements so I guess he's done good enough. You don't win $50,000,000 by coming in last


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## DeepweR (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> He's done enough to ear over $50,000,000 in race winnings. This does not include endorsements so I guess he's done good enough. You don't win $50,000,000 by coming in last



AMEN


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## brownceluse (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> He's done enough to ear over $50,000,000 in race winnings. This does not include endorsements so I guess he's done good enough. You don't win $50,000,000 by coming in last



If you aint 1st your last.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 14, 2010)

Are you laughing at your comment because it wasn't that funny.

If you can't laugh at yourself, then who can you laugh at?


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## 270 guy (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> He's done enough to ear over $50,000,000 in race winnings. This does not include endorsements so I guess he's done good enough. You don't win $50,000,000 by coming in last



Do some research before making comments like this. He won $100,730.00 for finishing 39th in one race. You call that good? Look up some stats he wins big money just for running in the races no matter where he finishes. Money doesn't make one good just popular. Like was stated many times his last name got him what he has now.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 14, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Do some research before making comments like this. He won $100,730.00 for finishing 39th in one race. You call that good? Look up some stats he wins big money just for running in the races no matter where he finishes. Money doesn't make one good just popular. Like was stated many times his last name got him what he has now.


 
Jr. is a very good NASCAR driver. What they were making them do for the last so many years was not NASCAR racing. When they let them bump and rub, like the sport intended he performs very well. If these pansy drivers that have come along in the last few years don't like that kind of racing they need to move over to Indy racing.

Now, to your comment about the money. It would take a lot of races coming in 39th to add up to 50,000,000 dollars. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you misread the amount, and left off a few zero's.


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## brownceluse (Feb 14, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Are you laughing at your comment because it wasn't that funny.
> 
> If you can't laugh at yourself, then who can you laugh at?



You got me


----------



## 270 guy (Feb 14, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Jr. is a very good NASCAR driver. What they were making them do for the last so many years was not NASCAR racing. When they let them bump and rub, like the sport intended he performs very well. If these pansy drivers that have come along in the last few years don't like that kind of racing they need to move over to Indy racing.
> 
> Now, to your comment about the money. It would take a lot of races coming in 39th to add up to 50,000,000 dollars. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you misread the amount, and left off a few zero's.


Nope no doubt look it up yourself. He made 80-100+ thousand for finishing near the bottom many times 
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/sprint/drivers/88

 On the above comment I agree that they should let them race like they did today. That will draw more old fans back to Nascar and make men out of boys so to speak. That was one of the best races I have seen in a long time.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 14, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Nope no doubt look it up yourself. He made 80-100+ thousand for finishing near the bottom many times
> http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/sprint/drivers/88
> 
> On the above comment I agree that they should let them race like they did today. That will draw more old fans back to Nascar and make men out of boys so to speak. That was one of the best races I have seen in a long time.


 
You either aren't listening or don't do well with math. So let me help you out. It would take 500 races finishing in those spots at 100k per race to add up to 50 million dollars. Divide 500 by the number of races per year, multiplied by the number of years he has been in Cup racing and I think you'll figure out the point being made here.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Feb 15, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> You either aren't listening or don't do well with math. So let me help you out. It would take 500 races finishing in those spots at 100k per race to add up to 50 million dollars. Divide 500 by the number of races per year, multiplied by the number of years he has been in Cup racing and I think you'll figure out the point being made here.



I think the point is, Jr has been sucking it up for a while now and todays race might be a turn around but it then again might not be. Have you people not been watching the races and seeing him finish poorly? Who cares how much money he makes. The only reason he makes that kind of money is because of his last named like said many, many, many, times. People loved Sr so they want to also love Jr. They want him to be like his father but he doesn't have the kahonas. He doesn't have to work hard for his money like the other racers. He just shows up drives his car, and gets paid more then others for finishing poorly, but also showing up at the race to keep the Dale Earnhardt fans watching. I hope this last race is a turn around for him but im not gonna get my hopes up.


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## DBM78 (Feb 15, 2010)

All of these Dale Jr fans are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Wait about 5 races and see where he's at and where all of the Jr lovers are. I like it all of the Jr fans are coming out of the woodwork now he ran good in one race. Let's see how long they hang around when he goes back to not breaking the top 15-20.


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## specialk (Feb 15, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> All of these Dale Jr fans are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Wait about 5 races and see where he's at and where all of the Jr lovers are. I like it all of the Jr fans are coming out of the woodwork now he ran good in one race. Let's see how long they hang around when he goes back to not breaking the top 15-20.




he could go undefeated this year and win the championship.....the haters will continue to hate and his true fans will continue to pull for him....nothing will change.....


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## tcward (Feb 15, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> He's done enough to ear over $50,000,000 in race winnings. This does not include endorsements so I guess he's done good enough. You don't win $50,000,000 by coming in last


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## 270 guy (Feb 15, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> You either aren't listening or don't do well with math. So let me help you out. It would take 500 races finishing in those spots at 100k per race to add up to 50 million dollars. Divide 500 by the number of races per year, multiplied by the number of years he has been in Cup racing and I think you'll figure out the point being made here.



I think you don't get the point..... no matter how bad he runs he makes big money to run the race and just finish. You JR fans just don't get it do you? Maybe you will figure it out sooner or later.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 15, 2010)

I don't think you do. It's pretty simple. YOU DON'T EARN that kind of money IF YOU SUCK. PERIOD.

I don't give a %^$%%#$% what your last name is.


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## 270 guy (Feb 15, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> I don't think you do. It's pretty simple. YOU DON'T EARN that kind of money IF YOU SUCK. PERIOD.
> 
> I don't give a %^$%%#$% what your last name is.



 Look at what they win for finishing last place then come cry some more OK.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 15, 2010)

Cry? I'm not crying at all. I don't see why you keep referring to last place winnings? It's pretty obvious you don't like Jr and that's fine with me. I could care less but when people totally are oblivious to simple reasoning, that's bothersome.

Man earns $50,000,000. Is that too many 0's for you to understand? Notice I said earned. If he gets them by coming in last or coming in first, he still has earned the money. He has done this in 10 years of racing. The only people that are crying are the ones who don't like him and want to throw out his Daddy as Jr's lifeline.

His dad is gone. Has been for awhile now. Time to stop that. I myself do not think Jr is even a top five driver. I have said it before. Still, it gets old to see the crap thrown at him. Like his other businesses. He said it this weekend. He is just the money behind those. He hires people to run them. Lots of athelete's and celebrities do this. But people say he's too BUSY doing the other things. He doesn't do that. He's just the investor.


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## Who-Rah (Feb 15, 2010)

You have to admit, seeing Junior push his way into second yesterday and rubbing fenders to get there was a great sign. Lets hope he is going to be more aggressive this year. BUT if he quit now most of would kill to have his $$$$. I am proud of Jamie MacMurray. It just shows you how much Roush can screw up a career. Another example Mark Martin.


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## Rednec (Feb 15, 2010)

"Yeah he did an interview back in 2003-2004 and mentioned it when talking about Dega. All of the flags in the infield."

Not exactly that way, it was a Q&A session with his favorite singer ludracus. The weekend Chicago
track open. He said (paraphrase) "Anyone that flys the Confederate flag is ignorant or stupid"
jr will never have his own legacy in this sport, he will continue to ride Sr's coat tail. I can smile about that..... 

By the way it was the arrogant stewart that said the infield of Talledaga was no place for the Confederate flag.


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## DBM78 (Feb 15, 2010)

Rednec said:


> "Yeah he did an interview back in 2003-2004 and mentioned it when talking about Dega. All of the flags in the infield."
> 
> Not exactly that way, it was a Q&A session with his favorite singer ludracus. The weekend Chicago
> track open. He said (paraphrase) "Anyone that flys the Confederate flag is ignorant or stupid"
> ...



Yeah I remember what he said but didn't go there.


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## Rednec (Feb 15, 2010)

From the beginning i wanted to pull for him & did until this. But i am biased, I pull for the Southern boys, dont care what they drive....Right now Martin my fav.


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## rackman (Feb 15, 2010)

GEORGIA BULLDOG MAN said:


> jr. is a idiot, he does not have his mind right, he needs to stop driving and do his whiskey river thing. let his sister run things at dei.



it's not dei.it is called JR.Motersports


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## rackman (Feb 15, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Let's see. There are about 50 or so teams in this world who are good enough to race in Nascar. Of course not all get to race each week but assuming my math is right...... let's see 350,000,000 in the U.S. and the 50 who are qualified to actually race in Nascar represent 0.00000014% of the population and you people call him an idiot.
> 
> Even if he never won a race, he was qualified enough to race. He had the best teacher but how many of you are better at something than the one who taught you. His daddy isn't rolling in his grave. He's smiling because he knows his kids have nothing to want for. Isn't that what you guys dream for your kids?
> 
> ...



you got that right


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## Rednec (Feb 16, 2010)

"Anyone that flys the Confederate flag is ignorant or stupid"
Dale Jr


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## skeeter24 (Feb 16, 2010)

Rednec said:


> "Anyone that flys the Confederate flag is ignorant or stupid"
> Dale Jr



Jr's comment was in South Carolina the weekend of the Darlington race and was recapped in his book "Driver #8".


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## irishleprechaun (Feb 16, 2010)

hevishot said:


> Jr would be a fry cook at Mcdonalds if "diddy didn't drive fer a livin'"....he is dumb as a stump...best equipment blah blah blah...the little boy can't get the job done.  This will be his last year on the track I imagine.....he his boss has any stones at all.




For someone who "doen't like trashcar" you sure post a lot in nascar threads...


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## irishleprechaun (Feb 16, 2010)

I have met and known both Jr and Kyle petty.  I have always said that considering the fame and environment that they grew up in, they turned out to be pretty good men.  I have seen fame of a parent spoil a child and make them a mess of an adult.

You can root for em or against em, you can even hate them when you don't really know them, but you gotta admit they are decent people.

BTW, when I strapped in I didn't like any of them.  But I didn't carry that off the track....

I don't root for any of them as a fan these days, but I got to know many of them and for the most part they are all good folks.


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## 270 guy (Feb 16, 2010)

irishleprechaun said:


> I have met and known both Jr and Kyle petty.  I have always said that considering the fame and environment that they grew up in, they turned out to be pretty good men.  I have seen fame of a parent spoil a child and make them a mess of an adult.
> 
> You can root for em or against em, you can even hate them when you don't really know them, but you gotta admit they are decent people.
> 
> ...



So which team did you race for when you got to meet and hang with all these top drivers? Why are you not still driving with them?


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## Rednec (Feb 16, 2010)

Jr's comment was in South Carolina the weekend of the Darlington race and was recapped in his book "Driver #8". 

Sir, i beg to differ, i read the article it was opening of the Chicago
& ludacrus was the featured singer, they sat together during a Q&A. Theres a post on GON concerning this subject.


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## irishleprechaun (Feb 16, 2010)

270 guy said:


> So which team did you race for when you got to meet and hang with all these top drivers? Why are you not still driving with them?



http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=493286&page=2

See post 82 on...couldn't find sponsors to move up to either arca or bush...wish I could have stayed but new baby girl meant I had to make the career choice.  I completely had to walk away from it.  It's true what they say that it gets "in your blood"...hardest thing I ever did was leaving it behind.


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## Hunt Em Up (Feb 16, 2010)

Why do we try to cut down people that make it?  We all push to be great, either you come in first or second or so forth. No matter where you finish, you finish. Why do we as grown men try to bring people that have made it down? What does it do for you? Let the young man race, let the man live his life the way HE wants to live it. I'm sure he had dreams just like most of you do though I'm sure losing his father wasn't apart of that dream.


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## Rednec (Feb 17, 2010)

Any pubic figure will draw criticism & praise, this thread is about both. Nothing we say or do will change any of their lives or habits.
I only have one thing against jr & i wont forgive him for it. It will be  a sad day for me if he ever wins a race, but, it wont dictate my mode or change me. His love for his father wasnt any greater than my love for mine.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Rednec, get a grip. You know what, I have lived here all my life. I have grown up in a country atmosphere. I had grandparents sympathetic to the klan. I have Confederate ancestors. I know southern living and it's history.

With that said, I like how the Confederate Flag looked. I understand why some feel it's a heritage symbol and all. I get that. But there's a heckuva lot of Bubbas that just fly it to fly it, just for the in your face effect. You know this to be true. Go to a Nascar race, and I do, and ask anyone with that flag or a tattoo of that flag the name of the Flag, it's symbolic meanings, when and how it came to be, etc, etc and 90% couldn't give you more that " IT's our heritage, southern pride, woooohoooo".

And sir, that is an embarrasing answer and it is stupid. It is ignorant to not understand the history, and I mean the true history behind something. 

I don't think Jr was wrong in his statement. In fact, he was more correct than you think. This isn't 1950 in Georgia. Nobody is telling you to forget your heritage or anything like that. It's a beautiful flag. Hold on to it for the right reasons. 

Now my opinion may not be popular on this website. That's okay. But never a day has my life been affected by any other flag other than the United States flag flying over my head. Until it became a political issue, never ever worried about it. And I don't get out of bed and drive by a courthouse and say, I wish we had a different flag. Other than our country's flag, nothing represents me. I represent myself and need no flag to tell me where my family came from.

Ya'll can bash me if you want but I'm tired of the flag drama.


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## Rednec (Feb 17, 2010)

This thread isnt about you!

That answer isnt embarrassing to me!
Its your right & jr's not to like or respect the flag or it history & its mine to differ. I know what my ancestors went thur defending the Southland, I happen to have more interest in Southern history than nascar & i will denounce anyone that  perpetuates lies, as a grandson i owe to my Ancestors to defend them with the truth and for jr to say its ignornat or stupid to fly makes me wanna spit in his face. He is the most over rated public sports figure in this country....

Never in a day of my life has nascar races affected my attitude or ruined my day.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay, down boy. What lie did he say? I'm talking about a bunch of drunk Bubba's and a flag. Notice I said anyone who doesn't know the history behind the flag, etc,etc.

Since you do, then it becomes a different conversation altogether. Perhaps if you would read my post again, it's not the flag, it's not the heritage, it's not the honor of those who fought and died for it. It is simply how that flag has come to symbolize bad stuff, dude. Are you trying to tell me that in the infield of a NASCAR race, the confederacy and it's honor is being celebrated? Seriously?

Perhaps you need to spit in the face of the rednecks who changed the meaning of your flag. Perhaps you should get upset at the one's who caused your flag to mean " hate, bigotry, " and that steals the honor away from your ancestors.

i ask again because I haven't read it but exactly what lie did he say?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Besides, I thought the Stars and Bars was the National Flag of the Confederacy and the one most argued about was the Battle Flag? Am I incorrect on this?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

And if in fact I'm correct on this, how come they aren't flying at the Nascar Races?

Why isn't the flag that was used at Jefferson Davis inauguaration the one seen today? I would think that in the interest of being right, you might bring that up. what say you?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Also you state never does nascar affect your attitude or your day but you'll get mad at a driver and spit in his face and hope he never wins, etc, etc, etc. 

do you read what you write? your attitude has already been affected.


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## Rednec (Feb 17, 2010)

"Okay, down boy. What lie did he say? I'm talking about a bunch of drunk Bubba's and a flag. Notice I said anyone who doesn't know the history behind the flag, etc,etc."

He said " Only the stupid or ignorant fly the flag" thats a lie within itself, but, it defames the honor of the 300k that died defending it.
The bubbas have a right to cherish the flag whether they are drunk or not & unless you have a sober conversation with them you dont know what they know. 

"Besides, I thought the Stars and Bars was the National Flag of the Confederacy and the one most argued about was the Battle Flag? Am I incorrect on this? "

Yes, flag with the St Andrews cross.

"And if in fact I'm correct on this, how come they aren't flying at the Nascar Races?
Why isn't the flag that was used at Jefferson Davis inauguaration the one seen today? I would think that in the interest of being right, you might bring that up. what say you? "

nascar is no better than jr, they let jessie extort them & denounced the flag & nascars Southern roots...do a GON search on nascar back in 2005 & youll read a good article concerning this..

Jefferson Davis was the President of the Confederacy not the battle field...The battle flag was changed at least 3x, for different reasons but one was because hanging loose it resembled the stars & stripes and as you might know, flags & drums were 2 key ways of communication, since al gore hadnt been born or we could have had internet.

"Also you state never does nascar affect your attitude or your day but you'll get mad at a driver and spit in his face and hope he never wins, etc, etc, etc. 
do you read what you write? your attitude has already been affected. "

I got mad at jr back in about 2000 when he said this, i have formed my opinion about him & dont like him ...I dont want him to win & i love it when he gets a DNF, but , i have no control over the outcome
and yes if he said that again in my face i would spit on him. Mostly, i dont watch pro sports, however, i do keep up with results & if i dont hear or see that jr/stewart/kyle busch has won i just smile & says "YES!"...If they do i say dang, but, i have 40 to 3 chances of not being disappointed.  I dont know why you are so interested in my position but im not gonna comment again unless i can just bash jr. and really other than his comments i dont know enough about him to dislike him, other than i hear hes pretty much a heavy drinker like the bubbas you speak of are.


----------



## Parts Man (Feb 17, 2010)

Hat turned sideway's looking like a fool.


----------



## Phillip Thurmond (Feb 17, 2010)

Not trying to steal the tread but here goes.
Is Dale Jr Gay?  Can anyone produce a photo of him and a woman together?  And speaking of Gay Is Tony Steward? I mean same think can anyone produce a photo of him and a woman together and He and Jr are best friends?  I'm not saying they are but can anyone prove otherwise?


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Dude, I bet you watch "Conspiracy Theory" and all that stull, huh?

Okay, I want to resist but I can't. The 300K did not die defending the flag you sopeak so highly of. First, the Stars and Bars ISB NOT THE St. ANDREWS CROSS. IT WAS NOT THE OFFICIAL FLAG OF THE CONFEDERACY. It was a secondary flag designed to help confederate soldiers on the battle field differentiate between union and confederate armies because THE OFFICIAL FLAG OF THE CONFEDERACY LOOKED SIMILAR TO THE U.S. FLAG. IT IS CALLED THE STARES AND BARS because it had three bars instead of thirteen stripes and originally had seven stars. March 1861 to May of 1863. This was the official flag of the Confederacy. In May of 1864, the design of a white flag with the "The Southern Cross" as it's canton (that's the square up in the corner) was used and adopted as the official flag. March 1865 a red vertical stripe was added to the far end of this flag.

The Southern Cross was a battle flag and is also named the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. 

The Confederate Navy Jack is what you guys fly and was used by the confederate Navy from 1863 till end of war.

So I ask you again, why do you not fly an Official Confederate Flag if preserving your heritage is so important and if the truth is what you want? 

Actually, you are incorrect on the flag being changed. It was the official flag, not the battle flag and the first was changed because it resembled the National flag. The second because it looked like a flag of surrender because of the white coloring when it was limp. You need a history lesson.

I truly believe that one should be proud of their heritage but also educated in it as well. Bash Nascar and jr if you'd like but read a little more.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Phillip, really?


----------



## Rednec (Feb 17, 2010)

Now that its mentioned, all i ever heard him hanging out with is rap artist.

Anyone that argues with a fool is a bigger fool.....


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow, really, really deep thoughts. Once again, all you've ever heard. I bet your a TMZ guy aren't you?


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## DBM78 (Feb 17, 2010)

Parts Man said:


> Hat turned sideway's looking like a fool.



with your Wranglers on the ground. Wranglers on the ground lookin like a fool with your Wranglers on the ground.


----------



## DBM78 (Feb 17, 2010)

That's funny I don't care who you are!!!


----------



## Hunt Em Up (Feb 17, 2010)

All I can say is man some of you guys need to get a life. Rednec I guess when  northen driver wins you get all upset because your reminded of how the North won and beat down the south. I'm from the south and a history major and you my friend are making yourself look like a fool not with your hat on sideways or your pants on the ground but with your comments that don't make much sense. I'd love to quiz you on history of the South.


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## skeeter24 (Feb 17, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> And if in fact I'm correct on this, how come they aren't flying at the Nascar Races?



Actually I fly both at the 8-9 races that I go to a year, along with a Jeff Gordon flag for me an a Dale Jr one for my wife.


----------



## 270 guy (Feb 17, 2010)

Rednec said:


> This thread isnt about you!
> 
> That answer isnt embarrassing to me!
> Its your right & jr's not to like or respect the flag or it history & its mine to differ. I know what my ancestors went thur defending the Southland, I happen to have more interest in Southern history than nascar & i will denounce anyone that  perpetuates lies, as a grandson i owe to my Ancestors to defend them with the truth and for jr to say its ignornat or stupid to fly makes me wanna spit in his face. He is the most over rated public sports figure in this country....
> Never in a day of my life has nascar races affected my attitude or ruined my day.



I agree on this 100%


----------



## 270 guy (Feb 17, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Okay, down boy. What lie did he say? I'm talking about a bunch of drunk Bubba's and a flag. Notice I said anyone who doesn't know the history behind the flag, etc,etc.
> 
> Since you do, then it becomes a different conversation altogether. Perhaps if you would read my post again, it's not the flag, it's not the heritage, it's not the honor of those who fought and died for it. It is simply how that flag has come to symbolize bad stuff, dude. Are you trying to tell me that in the infield of a NASCAR race, the confederacy and it's honor is being celebrated? Seriously?
> 
> ...



Please tell me who changed this? What history books has it been changed in? Maybe you have made it to mean something it is not! Why does someone flying the confederate flag bother you so much and why does it bother you that not everyone likes the over rated driver that JR is?  This is still America and we all have different opinions that's what makes this country great! Come back at the end of the season and lets see how your boy wonder does then.


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Please tell me who changed this? What history books has it been changed in? Maybe you have made it to mean something it is not! Why does someone flying the confederate flag bother you so much and why does it bother you that not everyone likes the over rated driver that JR is?  This is still America and we all have different opinions that's what makes this country great! Come back at the end of the season and lets see how your boy wonder does then.



dang Stump...........I had no clue you posted over here    Welcome back to GON..........At least at The Place you gave credit where credit is due LOL!


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> dang Stump...........I had no clue you posted over here    Welcome back to GON..........At least at The Place you gave credit where credit is due LOL!



btt


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## 270 guy (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> dang Stump...........I had no clue you posted over here    Welcome back to GON..........At least at The Place you gave credit where credit is due LOL!



What is stump????


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## DBM78 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hunt Em Up said:


> All I can say is man some of you guys need to get a life. Rednec I guess when  northen driver wins you get all upset because your reminded of how the North won and beat down the south. I'm from the south and a history major and you my friend are making yourself look like a fool not with your hat on sideways or your pants on the ground but with your comments that don't make much sense. I'd love to quiz you on history of the South.



Maybe my comment/joke was just over your head. I guess you don't watch American Idol.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Doesn't bother me which flag anyone flies. Seriously.

But I love these people who throw around the Navy Jack flag and think it's the Official Confederate Flag. It's not. That flag is perceived in today's culture as one that represents racism, which unfortunately is not it's true meaning. And then you get people who aren't knowledgeable enough ranting and raving over it. At least people like Skeeter flies the correct one along with it. That I have no problem with.

As for Jr, I believe he was correct in his comments. Is it a southern pride thing? Is it for our heritage? Then fly the right flag. To people who know the actual history, you look like a bunch of goons. How does that help your cause. You guys could fly the right flag to honor the South and it wouldn't draw near the attention. I just hate it when people say the Confederate Flag and I have to roll my eyes and think "Do people read anymore? Or do they just take someone else's word for it?"

you can be a proud man from the South, remembering your family and heritage, and still be smart and educated on a subject. There is no law against it but people and comments like that are always taking a step back to me. JMO.

As far as Jr goes, I believe earlier in the thread I stated I liked Stewart but the more I see the type of people who don't like him, the more I'll root for him too.


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

270 guy said:


> What is stump????



Uhhhh...................ok 

Dude, your posts here about Jr mirror the ones you post at The Place about him.  Your run on sentences are another dead giveaway LOL! 

I was born in the day but it wasnt yesterday


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Also, I love NASCAR but I do have a question. To those of you that do fly that flag, why?

I'm being serious and not condescending. Why is it that it's flown there? I see none at the Braves games or Falcon games. Why is it just Nascar? I live in Dawsonville and they love there racing here. All about the moonshine and everything. I see no moonshine flags. I see no bootlegger flags. Why the rebel flag? Nascar has nothing to do with it so I am curious as to just why it's even done to begin with? My grandparents were poor white trash but I don't ever recall seeing them have one hanging in the living room? what is it about racing that brings this out.

Looking for serious answers here.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 17, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Rednec, get a grip. You know what, I have lived here all my life. I have grown up in a country atmosphere. I had grandparents sympathetic to the klan. I have Confederate ancestors. I know southern living and it's history.
> 
> With that said, I like how the Confederate Flag looked. I understand why some feel it's a heritage symbol and all. I get that. But there's a heckuva lot of Bubbas that just fly it to fly it, just for the in your face effect. You know this to be true. Go to a Nascar race, and I do, and ask anyone with that flag or a tattoo of that flag the name of the Flag, it's symbolic meanings, when and how it came to be, etc, etc and 90% couldn't give you more that " IT's our heritage, southern pride, woooohoooo".
> 
> ...


 

The first National Confederate Flag; Look familiar to any of you uneducated racists?





Now, can we please move on with this debate and discuss the real issue, which is folks that don't have a clue about what NASCAR is about from the inside out, complaining about someone they have never in their life met, all because they will never have what he does.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Sparky! Thank goodness. I felt totally alone on this one! I was looking for a pic of it to post.


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> The first National Confederate Flag; Look familiar to any of you uneducated racists?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

that there will preach


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## emusmacker (Feb 17, 2010)

my biggest gripe is that he is with undoubtedly the best team in NASCAR and has been for 2 yrs now, and has only 1, I repeat 1 win. And that was at Michigan where he passed the pace car, which is "supposed to be illegal" acording to the rules and he "won" the race. 

For those that can't see the problem with that is idiotic, I mean, he won 17 or 18 races with the "dead beat" ownership at DEI and left for better equipment. Am I an idiot or doesn't one think that when you have better equipment you get better. Hmmm, guess I'm an idiot to think that. 
I'm not a hater but I will face reality, no I'm not a NASCAR driver, and don't know where I would finish if I ever had the chance but why is it so hard to accept that Jr ain't all that?  Mark Martin came over from DEI and actually won and represented Hendricks racing. Dale comes over and .......well e   v  e  r  y   o  n  c  e  i  n  a  w  h  i  l  e  get a top 10 or top 5 finish and then he's really showing up his detractors.

Finally, most sports except NASCAR has the most popular athlete as the one or one of the BEST in their respective sports, but not NASCAR, look how long Bill Elliott sucked and he still won most popular driver.  I just don't understand, but maybe that's because I'm an IDIOT.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Best owner doesn't mean best team. There are four teams in that stable. If that's your measuring stick, then why does Johnson dominate so much? Is his team better?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 17, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> my biggest gripe is that he is with undoubtedly the best team in NASCAR and has been for 2 yrs now, and has only 1, I repeat 1 win. And that was at Michigan where he passed the pace car, which is "supposed to be illegal" acording to the rules and he "won" the race.
> 
> For those that can't see the problem with that is idiotic, I mean, he won 17 or 18 races with the "dead beat" ownership at DEI and left for better equipment. Am I an idiot or doesn't one think that when you have better equipment you get better. Hmmm, guess I'm an idiot to think that.
> I'm not a hater but I will face reality, no I'm not a NASCAR driver, and don't know where I would finish if I ever had the chance but why is it so hard to accept that Jr ain't all that? Mark Martin came over from DEI and actually won and represented Hendricks racing. Dale comes over and .......well e v e r y o n c e i n a w h i l e get a top 10 or top 5 finish and then he's really showing up his detractors.
> ...


 
I suppose you were also a Tiger Woods worshipper at once also huh?


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> my biggest gripe is that he is with undoubtedly the best team in NASCAR and has been for 2 yrs now, and has only 1, I repeat 1 win. And that was at Michigan where he passed the pace car, which is "supposed to be illegal" acording to the rules and he "won" the race.
> 
> .



that is crap and you know it man.............if he had 15 wins and a championship in those two years, you would just find another reason to dislike him just like any other detractor around here would.

FWIW, he NEVER totally passed the pace car........Did he get up beside the pace car? Yep he sure did. Is that against the rules of Nascar racing? I dont know........Nascar rules seem to be written in pencil and can change at the drop of a hat.

Dont hate on Jr because Nascar has a joke of a rule system. Hate Brian France.


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## emusmacker (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Spanky, I think Tiger woods is the best golfer in the world, and guess what,  He has the trophies to prove it. 

But you probably think that Charles Howell is the best and will find a way to try and argue your point

CC77, yes Johnson's team is better, duh, he has 4 championships to prove it. Do you honestly think that Johnson would be as dominating as he is with Robby Gordon racing?  

And Ryan, dude, the rules are written and erased for Jr and his Team mates more than anyone.  Remember Talladega and the "below the yellow line" deal, funny how Park who was 2 laps down and drove a few feet below the line got penalized bit Little Precious Jr, Everyones golden child DRIVES AND PASSES 2 OTHER CARS BELOW THE LINE and NASCAR "didn't" see it. Then the fans came on here justifying the ruling, why? Why not admit Jr should've been penalized?  If Jr had 15 wins and a championship with Hendricks this post would not have even been started. Ever notice why no ones starts threads about Kenseth, he has a title, how bout Jarrett, he has a title?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 17, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Hey Spanky, I think Tiger woods is the best golfer in the world, and guess what, He has the trophies to prove it.
> 
> But you probably think that Charles Howell is the best and will find a way to try and argue your point
> 
> ...


 
OK, we can all concur that regardless of how many women Tiger cheats on his wife with, you will always love him. And in regards to Jr, if he were to win every race from here on out this year and take the championship you would find a reason to hate him. 

Duly noted.

NEXT!!!


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## ryano (Feb 17, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> If Jr had 15 wins and a championship with Hendricks this post would not have even been started.



Sure it would have.........This thread was started by a very shallow person that has to pick on somebodys looks and had nothing to do with said driver's accomplishments or lack thereof behind the wheel.

The reason nobody starts a thread about Kenseth is because he is BORING and there is nothing really to talk about.

To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser


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## runs with scissors (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> Sure it would have.........This thread was started by a very shallow person that has to pick on somebodys looks and had nothing to do with said driver's accomplishments or lack thereof behind the wheel.
> 
> The reason nobody starts a thread about Kenseth is because he is BORING and there is nothing really to talk about.
> 
> To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser


Settle down there bubs...jr might win again in a couple of years


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## Rednec (Feb 17, 2010)

Huntem up
you need to read all the correspondence,  i didnt hyjack the thread for conversation about the flag. I stated why i didnt like jr & CC started bashing the flag. Yes, i had rather anyone from South win but anyone that keeps jr/stewart/kyle busch from winning is fine with me.   

No one, any where will make me ashamed of the South.  If you are and are from the South are thats your business, simply put you are not my kind a person. 
Nothing said on this thread will make me like him any more or less.  Some of your cherish his 18 wins in 12 years and if thats your definition of a great driver then thats your business.

I dont care what your major is anytime you wanna quiz me go ahead but, start another thread, this one is for BASHING the MOST OVER RATED sports figure in sports history.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 17, 2010)

Not ashamed, just smarter.


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## hevishot (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> Sure it would have.........This thread was started by a very shallow person that has to pick on somebodys looks and had nothing to do with said driver's accomplishments or lack thereof behind the wheel.
> 
> The reason nobody starts a thread about Kenseth is because he is BORING and there is nothing really to talk about.
> 
> To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser


there ya go...take PRIDE in the fact that Junior Originated the hat on backerds and jorts look in Trashcar....straight gangsta...word...a true "originata"...woooooooot...bet JR will fly the rainbow flag before its all over...that boy gots sugar in his jorts...


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 17, 2010)

hevishot said:


> bet JR will fly the rainbow flag before its all over...that boy gots sugar in his jorts...


 
I think Gordon has already cornered that market.


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## tcward (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> Sure it would have.........This thread was started by a very shallow person that has to pick on somebodys looks and had nothing to do with said driver's accomplishments or lack thereof behind the wheel.
> 
> The reason nobody starts a thread about Kenseth is because he is BORING and there is nothing really to talk about.
> 
> To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser



Now you're talking about a driver with some accomplishments!!!!!!! Good pic there Ryano!


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## DBM78 (Feb 17, 2010)

To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser 






[/QUOTE]


Yeah Jr originated that. Look at Rowdy he has a Hendrick hat on and maybe 19-20 years old in that picture. Go look at the photo of Jr last week how old is he now 35 and acting about like a teenager.

Oh and yeah don't even try to compare Jr with anything else with Kyle like driving skills, talent or anything else.


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## hevishot (Feb 17, 2010)

ryano said:


> that there will preach



that will preach???.....huh?


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## hevishot (Feb 17, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> To stay on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, at least Jr originated the look amongst the Nascar drivers and isnt some poser




Yeah Jr originated that. Look at Rowdy he has a Hendrick hat on and maybe 19-20 years old in that picture. Go look at the photo of Jr last week how old is he now 35 and acting about like a teenager.

Oh and yeah don't even try to compare Jr with anything else with Kyle like driving skills, talent or anything else.[/QUOTE]

yep, Jr could learn a lot from that boy...if he were capable....


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 18, 2010)

Actually, since once again you hicks are behind the curve, Jr didn't originate any look. Baseball players have been doing that for a lot longer. I hear none of you bashing any of the Braves or other players? It's just because you don't like Jr and it's a way to gripe.

Hey, I'm 37 and when I'm on the ballfield, my hat is backwards more than it is forwards. I'm coaching. You want to come tell me I'm acting like a teenager? Want to tell me I got sugar in my shorts?
Not sure momma will let you out of the basement that long in direct sunlight to make that trip! LOL!!! Just kidding.

But seriously, don't you have anything better you could gripe about than a hat?


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## emusmacker (Feb 18, 2010)

Ok  I want to know why all the Jr fans like him.  Really, being serious right now, why do ya'll like him so much?  

And why do the Jr fans not like Kyle Bush, Tony Stewart, etc.? 

I thought about this for a long time and came to my conclusion of why so many like him, BECAUSE OF HIS NAME. So Sparky, Collins Craft, and Ryano, tell me why ya'll love him so much. And remember CC, you're the mathematician, give a logical reason why you love him so much.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Feb 18, 2010)

You want the truth?

I hated Dale Sr. Couldn't stand him. My father in law absolutely loved him. I'm talking man love type of worship. Anyway, we were sitting on the couch watching the 500. I really like Budweiser so I was just getting in to rooting for Jr at the time. However, I still hated his dad. Anyway, we all know the story, 3 in the outside wall. 

I looked over at my fatherinlaw and said, "I hope he breaks his neck". Just doing the same joke we've all done during a race, messing with my father in law. It's Earnhardt and he always comes out okay.

Well, an hour later when they proclaimed him dead, I saw a tear in my father in law's eye. Known him 13 years before that and never saw him cry. I have never felt that bad nor regretted any words I have ever said as much as those. Seriously. And I made the decision right then and there that I would root for his son because of the ignorant thing I had said. And I have till this day.

Don't get me wrong, I like Stewart and others, but I don't root for him because of his last name and yet at the same time I do, because of what I said about his dad. And regardless of how he does, I will root for him till he retires because I said I would. I do think he's a likeable guy. He is a talented driver. Is he the best? No. I think Stewart is the best. Still, I have this little "bond" bewteen he and I because I wished his father to get seriously hurt ( jokingly! ), and he did.

Might be stupid but that's the truth. And I drank a heckuva lot of Budweiser. Wished he was still there because Kahne just isn't the same. So now I drink Original Coors.


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## ryano (Feb 18, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Oh and yeah don't even try to compare Jr with anything else with Kyle like driving skills, talent or anything else.



Last time I checked, Jr has more wins than Kyle does. Until Kyle passes him, just shut up already. Or you can go on with your drivel on how Jr has been in the sport longer.........Whatever floats your boat. 

I turn my hat around backwards when Im hunting sometimes and Im 40 years old..........Oh and yeah, I really dont care what YOU think about it and Im sure Jr doesnt care what you think either.

Gordon turns his hat around backwards sometimes too...........So does Jimmie Johnson and a few others but hey lets call Jr out for it and nobody else.


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## ryano (Feb 18, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Ok  I want to know why all the Jr fans like him.  Really, being serious right now, why do ya'll like him so much?
> 
> And why do the Jr fans not like Kyle Bush, Tony Stewart, etc.?
> 
> I thought about this for a long time and came to my conclusion of why so many like him, BECAUSE OF HIS NAME. So Sparky, Collins Craft, and Ryano, tell me why ya'll love him so much. And remember CC, you're the mathematician, give a logical reason why you love him so much.





since you asked, I was a fan of his dad..........I followed Jr in Busch and once he got to Cup. It only seemed logical to pull for Jr ever more once Dale died..............Unlike some of his detractors, I dont expect him to be a 7 time champion or win 100 races just because his last name is Earnhardt 

As long as Jr is driving I will be pulling for him if finishes 1st or 43rd.

I dont dislike Kyle, Stewart, Gordon or any of them really.


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## DBM78 (Feb 18, 2010)

ryano said:


> Last time I checked, Jr has more wins than Kyle does. Until Kyle passes him, just shut up already. Or you can go on with your drivel on how Jr has been in the sport longer.........Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> I turn my hat around backwards when Im hunting sometimes and Im 40 years old..........Oh and yeah, I really dont care what YOU think about it and Im sure Jr doesnt care what you think either.
> 
> Gordon turns his hat around backwards sometimes too...........So does Jimmie Johnson and a few others but hey lets call Jr out for it and nobody else.



Well I guess I won't have to keep quite long maybe the halfway point in the season. Kyle Busch will pass Jr in the wins total this year.


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## DBM78 (Feb 18, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Ok  I want to know why all the Jr fans like him.  Really, being serious right now, why do ya'll like him so much?
> 
> And why do the Jr fans not like Kyle Bush, Tony Stewart, etc.?
> 
> I thought about this for a long time and came to my conclusion of why so many like him, BECAUSE OF HIS NAME. So Sparky, Collins Craft, and Ryano, tell me why ya'll love him so much. And remember CC, you're the mathematician, give a logical reason why you love him so much.



With Jr Nation and Nascar starting back up I started a thread on this very subject. Who's your favorite driver and why http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=494047. There's not as many Jr fans as I thought or maybe they just can't come up with a reason why they pull for him. I don't know.


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## tcward (Feb 18, 2010)

ryano said:


> Last time I checked, Jr has more wins than Kyle does. Until Kyle passes him, just shut up already. Or you can go on with your drivel on how Jr has been in the sport longer.........Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> I turn my hat around backwards when Im hunting sometimes and Im 40 years old..........Oh and yeah, I really dont care what YOU think about it and Im sure Jr doesnt care what you think either.
> 
> Gordon turns his hat around backwards sometimes too...........So does Jimmie Johnson and a few others but hey lets call Jr out for it and nobody else.


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## skeeter24 (Feb 18, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Also, I love NASCAR but I do have a question. To those of you that do fly that flag, why?
> 
> I'm being serious and not condescending. Why is it that it's flown there? I see none at the Braves games or Falcon games. Why is it just Nascar? I live in Dawsonville and they love there racing here. All about the moonshine and everything. I see no moonshine flags. I see no bootlegger flags. Why the rebel flag? Nascar has nothing to do with it so I am curious as to just why it's even done to begin with? My grandparents were poor white trash but I don't ever recall seeing them have one hanging in the living room? what is it about racing that brings this out.
> 
> Looking for serious answers here.



I can't speak for anyone else, but my answer is simple.  When I go to races I take my RV and am there for usually 3 or 4 nights depending on if the race is on Saturday night or Sunday.  My flag poles mount to the bumper of my RV.  I do not take my camper to Braves games or Thrashers games.  I also take a lot of other stuff that comes in handy at a 4 day tailgate that I would not bring if i were only tailgating for 4 hours.


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## hevishot (Feb 18, 2010)

ryano said:


> Last time I checked, Jr has more wins than Kyle does. Until Kyle passes him, just shut up already..



"just shut up already?"...are you a yankee??


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## Hunt Em Up (Feb 18, 2010)

*Jr.*



Rednec said:


> Huntem up
> you need to read all the correspondence,  i didnt hyjack the thread for conversation about the flag. I stated why i didnt like jr & CC started bashing the flag. Yes, i had rather anyone from South win but anyone that keeps jr/stewart/kyle busch from winning is fine with me.
> 
> No one, any where will make me ashamed of the South.  If you are and are from the South are thats your business, simply put you are not my kind a person.
> ...



Then change the name of the thread to Lets Bash the Most Over Rated sports figure in sports history. I don't care if you like him or not. I like the guy, I've met the guy. For most people they make their mind up on what the news media says and sorry but you have to be crazy not to question the media. I just think its crazy that we as people try to knock people off when they get something in all honesty we want which is nothing more than jealousy. As far as your history knowledge I suggest you read more and get things right. I'm a proud Southern person myself and I only have one question for you. What was the reason for the Civil War? I like to hear different southerners answers for this. Whats your take on it.


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## Hunt Em Up (Feb 18, 2010)

I like Jr and Stewart. I worked for Budweiser for a few years and my uncle was a promoter for Dale Sr. I met Jr and liked him because we were close in age and I could relate to him with wanting to race like my dad. When Sr. Died I'll admit I shed a tear and I saw my dad do the same thing because one of his hero's had passed. I like Stewart because he speaks his mind and isn't afraid to do so. Just like me. I don't hate any driver. After each one wins I give each one his dues and so be it till the next race. As far as the flying the Confederate flag and what Jr. Said. I don't know all what he said and I won't rely on what media says because most of it is taken out of context and I don't know if I'm right or wrong about this but if he said it at Darlington SC. I figured it was something the media was asking people about for the sake of the NAACP pushing SC to take the confederate flag off the top of their capital building and some reported asked Jr. about his thoughts on the confederate flag.. Heck I don't know. If your proud of your southern heritage then I say fly it and educate yourself on its meaning. But I know some people fly it like others have said and don't know much. As far as racing, its a long season and I hope Jr and Stewart are up there for the chase at the end of the year. But I'll never say I hate someone especially because I'm jealous of what they have. Good for them for what they have and maybe one day I can have the same if not better.


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## emusmacker (Feb 23, 2010)

And despite what some on here say, I don't hate Jr. What I don't do is act like he's the best thing since sliced bread. I'm a Harvick fan and believe me, I know what it feels like to not have your favorite driver win any races, but I will also tell you that if Harvick goes winless this season and wins most popular driver, Yes I will say that he was over rated. I mean look at the stats, Jimmy is probably the best driver out there right now and NO I DON'T LIKE IT. But I'll give credit where credit is due.

As far as liking Jr because his dad died, well I guess when Richard Petty dies everyone will have to start hoping for Child Petty to start racing again so they can have another favorite.

And Sparky, do you like Chipper Jones?  How many hooter girls did he cheat with and how many illegitamate kids does he have. The difference between him and Woods, is Woods actually dominates his sport, and when he don't play, ratings go down, when Chipper doesn't play, no ones cares.


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## ryano (Feb 23, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> And despite what some on here say, I don't hate Jr. What I don't do is act like he's the best thing since sliced bread.



Who here has ever claimed or acted like that?     The majority of his fans know better too so to me, that is just an excuse you use to dislike him. 

IMHO, you are putting WAY too much stock in that hideous MPD award. Jr is the most popular driver because he no doubt has the most fans.....With that said, that award is a joke.  It doesnt even pay any money that I know of.

Look at how long Bill Elliott was MPD even though he was stinking up the show each and every Sunday.

So basically you are telling me that the only reason you dont like Jr is because he is Most Popular Driver? 

As far as being "overrated" goes. He is overrated according to WHO? The haters that expect just because his last name is Earnhardt that he should have 60 wins and 7 championships by now?

That is just absurd. If he never wins another race, he has earned his right to be in Nascar. Anyone who thinks different is just a very closed minded individual that doesnt know much about Nascar racing.

You dont have to have a championship to be a "good" driver. All one has to do is look at Mark Martin for proof of that.  Many a great names have came and gone in this sport that dont have a Daytona 500 trophy or 18 Cup wins.


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## hevishot (Feb 23, 2010)




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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 23, 2010)




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## ACguy (Feb 23, 2010)

ryano said:


> *Last time I checked, Jr has more wins than Kyle does.* Until Kyle passes him, just shut up already. Or you can go on with your drivel on how Jr has been in the sport longer.........Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> I turn my hat around backwards when Im hunting sometimes and Im 40 years old..........Oh and yeah, I really dont care what YOU think about it and Im sure Jr doesnt care what you think either.
> 
> Gordon turns his hat around backwards sometimes too...........So does Jimmie Johnson and a few others but hey lets call Jr out for it and nobody else.



When is the last time you check thier win totals?  Kyle has 16 spint wins and 31 Nationwide wins while JR has 18 Sprint wins and 22 Nationwide wins. Plus Kyle has 16 wins in the Truck series . So Kyle has 63 wins and JR has 40. Even if you don't include the truck series Kyle has more wins in less races .


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## ryano (Feb 23, 2010)

ACguy said:


> When is the last time you check thier win totals?  Kyle has 16 spint wins and 31 Nationwide wins while JR has 18 Sprint wins and 22 Nationwide wins. Plus Kyle has 16 wins in the Truck series . So Kyle has 63 wins and JR has 40. Even if you don't include the truck series Kyle has more wins in less races .



Im talking Cup wins........All others dont even count as far as Im concerned once a driver gets to Cup.    Yall dont want to count Jrs 2 Busch championships as anything so why should I count any of Kyles accomplishments on his "busch league" wins? 

Cup drivers shouldnt even be allowed in the truck or Nationwide series but thats another argument for another day. 

Bragging on Kyles 16 wins in the truck series AFTER he went full time Sprint Cup is much akin to bragging on the Dawgs whipping up on a high school team IMO.

And yep, I realize Kyle will probably pass Jr in total CUP wins this season.


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## pfharris1965 (Feb 24, 2010)

*...*



DBM78 said:


> Well I guess I won't have to keep quite long maybe the halfway point in the season. Kyle Busch will pass Jr in the wins total this year.


 
Looks that way right now. 

Will be interesting to watch.


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## emusmacker (Feb 24, 2010)

Well Ryano, like I said, I don't hate Jr, and honestly I'd love to see him do great and win several championships, but to like someone just because of who his dad was, to me is kinda absurd.  Why not like him because he does his own thing and enjoys it. But if you want to go on and continue to think I'm a hater because I state the real reason that most people like Jr is his name then go ahead and think it dude.

I think Jr is overrated because, when he was with an inferior team he actually won races and finished in the points, but now he's with the New York Yankees of racing and keeps struggling. Funny how that works. So Ryano, explain to me why you think he's worse now with better equipment and owner than when he drove for that "dead Beat" before?  Just asking for a logical expanation, then if you can tell me why all his team amtes are better and he ain't then I will detract my statement of him being ovrrated.


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## pfharris1965 (Feb 24, 2010)

*...*



emusmacker said:


> Well Ryano, like I said, I don't hate Jr, and honestly I'd love to see him do great and win several championships, but to like someone just because of who his dad was, to me is kinda absurd. Why not like him because he does his own thing and enjoys it. But if you want to go on and continue to think I'm a hater because I state the real reason that most people like Jr is his name then go ahead and think it dude.
> 
> I think Jr is overrated because, when he was with an inferior team he actually won races and finished in the points, but now he's with the New York Yankees of racing and keeps struggling. Funny how that works. So Ryano, explain to me why you think he's worse now with better equipment and owner than when he drove for that "dead Beat" before? Just asking for a logical expanation, then if you can tell me why all his team amtes are better and he ain't then I will detract my statement of him being ovrrated.


 


Gonna be interesting to watch this thread unfold as the season progresses...  

The "better equipment" could make him magically go *poof*...


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## ryano (Feb 24, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> I think Jr is overrated because, when he was with an inferior team he actually won races and finished in the points, but now he's with the New York Yankees of racing and keeps struggling. Funny how that works. So Ryano, explain to me why you think he's worse now with better equipment and owner than when he drove for that "dead Beat" before?  Just asking for a logical expanation, then if you can tell me why all his team amtes are better and he ain't then I will detract my statement of him being ovrrated.



Im not one that ever thought DEI was "inferior"

Your boy Kevin Harvick is the one that called her a deadbeat. Not me. Maybe you should take that up with him 

I have no idea why he is stinking up the show at Hendricks other than the fact that since the beginning of HMS, they have ALWAYS had one subpar team........That appears to be the 88 team now.

Is some of that Jr's fault?  You dang skippy it is.


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## pfharris1965 (Feb 24, 2010)

ryano said:


> Im not one that ever thought DEI was "inferior"
> 
> Your bubs Kevin Harvick is the one that called her a deadbeat. Not me. Maybe you should take that up with him
> 
> ...


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## fireman1501 (Feb 24, 2010)

If i was going to go with jr. i would have to cheer on kyle petty to . All them years of racing and no wins . I think they two of a kind . Tell jr to buy a team and let someone else drive.


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## Steve Thompson (Feb 24, 2010)

No way he'll ever compare to Bill, any way or shape. Bill and his two brothers are some smart dudes. They're rebuilding jets and selling them, as well as building motors for a lot of teams in all racing. I also think a lot of Jr what ever kind of driver he is. Yea, right,,,, if he wasnt qualifyed do you think he'd have 500 mil in sponsers??
  He's not going after anybody & nobodys going after him. Also - he cant help it if his paw was #3. I like everone of'em,,,,except Kyle Bush.


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## ryano (Feb 24, 2010)

fireman1501 said:


> If i was going to go with jr. i would have to cheer on kyle petty to . All them years of racing and no wins . I think they two of a kind . Tell jr to buy a team and let someone else drive.



you dont follow much Nascar do ya?  Jr owns a team.


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## skeeter24 (Feb 25, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> explain to me why you think he's worse now with better equipment and owner than when he drove for that "dead Beat" before?  Just asking for a logical expanation, then if you can tell me why all his team amtes are better and he ain't then I will detract my statement of him being ovrrated.



I think that it has to do with the new car.  There are alot of drivers that have admitted that they just can't seem to get the feel that they want with the new car.  Jeff Gordon will admit that he has had trouble.  The change has also altered the ability of some drivers to effectively communicate changes back to the crew chief.  Jimmie and Chad have done this better than anyone.  How many times has be had a 15th to 20th place car early on and then been there for the win at the end.  Same thing used to happen with Gordon and Evernham.  Jr seems to run decent at the start of some races last year and then get worse as the race went on.  Some of that was probably not keeping with the changing track conditions, but I think some of that was trying to get that feel for what he likes.  He may never get it.

We will never know for sure, but my feeling is that Sr. would have had trouble getting comfortable with these cars as well based on comments from some of the old school guys like Bill Elliot and Sterling Marlin.


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## hawgrider1200 (Feb 25, 2010)

*team effort*

I know that I'm definately not an expert when it comes to NASCAR. I do listen to he "experts" the fellas that count are the guys that have been in th sport for years and are currently announcers and commentators for the Speed Channel, Fox, and ESPN. U guys that actually follow the sport know that these guys are former drivers and crew chiefs. They are constantly reminding us that it takes the entire team to make a consistant winning season. You fellas that are downing Jr fail to address this issue and until you do you have no credibilty in my book.    So if u wanna keep downing my man JR I'm not paying u any mind at all.


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## Rednec (Feb 25, 2010)

I think hes a better than average driver, however, i dont like him & i hope he never wins another race same for stewart/kyle busch..


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## emusmacker (Feb 25, 2010)

Hawgrider, I really don't pay much attention to * wins in 40 yrs Kyle Petty, or one time Champ Dale Jarrett, besides hgow many of them actually tell it how it is. I will give Petty credit, he will say when some one stinks and when they don't. Jimmy Spencer would call you out on occasion, but how many successful retired drivers do you see announcing now. Oh yeah I forgot about ol "BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY" and if the comments about Dale Jr don't bother you then why even post a comment.

If a person states an opinion based on what he sees year in and year out, and that opinion ain't popular why is he considered a hater.  I say that Jr ain't as good as MOST of his fans BELIEVE him to be, Same could be said about my bub Harvick, but I ain't gonna whine and get my underwear all in a wad because someone says Harvick ain't livin up to his expectations. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT HARVICK GAS DONE SUB PAR, does mean I'm a Harvick hater now?


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## Rednec (Feb 28, 2010)

Humble pie?  
I personally dont gloat about his loses, the way some "lovers" do about his 2nd place finish.. It makes my day if he loses, either way my BP stays the same.


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## ACguy (Feb 28, 2010)

_BuckMaster_ said:


> Too All You Haters Out There Hope You Got Your Stove Hot...For When You Have To Cook  That Humble Pie....Jr Can Drive ..His Dad Put Him In Racing But That Hasnt Kept Him There..Yes I Think He Has Lost Something But Saying That I Havent Gave Up On Him Just Yet....The Man Will Bounce Back And Then Some On Here Wont Be Talking Much...With That Mouth Full Of CROW..........



Congrats on a 16th place finish  . Where did his 3 teammates finish today?


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## 270 guy (Feb 28, 2010)

ACguy said:


> Congrats on a 16th place finish  . Where did his 3 teammates finish today?



UMMM 1st 3rd and 4th wonder what happened to JR? Boy wonder did it again didn't he?


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## ACguy (Feb 28, 2010)

270 guy said:


> UMMM 1st 3rd and 4th wonder what happened to JR? Boy wonder did it again didn't he?



So it was just a normal week for the  Hendrick motor sports team.


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## 270 guy (Feb 28, 2010)

ACguy said:


> So it was just a normal week for the  Hendrick motor sports team.



Pretty much.... the three amigos at the front and slacker bringing up the rear.


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## tony0345 (Feb 28, 2010)

glad people still take up for him;one day they see he cant drive


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## tony0345 (Feb 28, 2010)

i'm a hendrick man, but wished he could do better,jr that is


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## Rednec (Mar 1, 2010)

Silence is golden...


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## emusmacker (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey Buck Master, how's that crow tasting right now, If Jr wins A race this yr, that's not gonna prove anything to me, win 3 and then yep, He's back, until then, "CAW CAW CAW".  Spit those feathers out.


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## emusmacker (Mar 1, 2010)

And yes Kerry did try out for the cup races, but he realized that he just ain't good enuff and went back to the little league. Maybe Jr should follow his older brothers footsteps and win a couple more little league championships.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

Hmmm, let's see. Three races. Two different winners, Johnson and McMurray. If my math is right, that leaves 41 other drivers without a win this year. How many of them should quit already since they haven't won yet? I still find it funny you people say he can't drive yet your sitting on your couch or whatever watching him and the others drive. Hmmm? Is that because your such an expert that the reason you don't drive, but sit at home, is because it wouldn't be fair to the other drivers because your that good? I don't think Kerry made that decision for himself but it was made by others.

30 some odd races left in season and you guys are talking about eating crow? 

The collective i.q. of some of you on this thread makes me completely understand why foxworthy and billy bob teeth are so popular. The man can drive else he wouldn't. Period. You can't drive better so you sit at home and watch. Period. Will he win many races? Probably not. Championships? Maybe not. But he's there and your not so get of your momma's basement, come into the sunshine, and just enjoy the race and get your panties out of a wad over someone's last name. My 14 yr old daughter and my 11 year old daughter make better arguments during their spats. You guys are ridiculous. At least Rednec is being quite but yes, the silence is loud, I'll grant you that.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 1, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Hmmm, let's see. Three races. Two different winners, Johnson and McMurray. If my math is right, that leaves 41 other drivers without a win this year. How many of them should quit already since they haven't won yet? I still find it funny you people say he can't drive yet your sitting on your couch or whatever watching him and the others drive. Hmmm? Is that because your such an expert that the reason you don't drive, but sit at home, is because it wouldn't be fair to the other drivers because your that good? I don't think Kerry made that decision for himself but it was made by others.
> 
> 30 some odd races left in season and you guys are talking about eating crow?
> 
> The collective i.q. of some of you on this thread makes me completely understand why foxworthy and billy bob teeth are so popular. The man can drive else he wouldn't. Period. You can't drive better so you sit at home and watch. Period. Will he win many races? Probably not. Championships? Maybe not. But he's there and your not so get of your momma's basement, come into the sunshine, and just enjoy the race and get your panties out of a wad over someone's last name. My 14 yr old daughter and my 11 year old daughter make better arguments during their spats. You guys are ridiculous. At least Rednec is being quite but yes, the silence is loud, I'll grant you that.



If its such a bad argument then why are you coming back for more? And what do you do while the races are going on???? Seems like your the one with panties in a wad , Judging people by what they type in a thread............


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

On the contrary, I come back to look for some sign of intelligent life. I like to argue with people who can say more than "HE aint his deddie or he's skeered!!"

also, what else is there to judge on? If you read my posts, I have never said he's the greatest or even the top 5 or 10 drivers. All my posts ever say is if the man couldn't drive, he wouldn't be there. It's absurd to hear people say he's only there because of his name. It's absurd to hear them say he ran back of pack when he runs mid pack. They over emphasise the negative to make it worse than what it is and the people who love him do the exact opposite, they make him to be running better than he is.

All I'm saying is do it intelligently, which hasn't been the strong point of this thread's posts. Yesterday during the race I gave a pitching lesson and two fielding lessons to local baseball players. During Saturday's race, my middle daughter was playing in the district bball tournament up in Clayton, qualifying for state. I promise you it was more important stuff than watching the race.


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## emusmacker (Mar 1, 2010)

Well CC you must not read too good either, I never said that he couldn't drive, just overrated, and as far as that old third grade arguement that "you ain't as good as him that's why you're not driving" is kinda comical coming from a scholar like you. I also stated that the reason most people like him is because of his daddy, or as you mister scholar put it, his deddy. That is a logical statement, and even you said that was why you liked him, and Ryano and most other fans that like him. So why don't you go and finish your homework before you get im trouble for playing on the computer. 

Well I was sitting watching the race because my son isn't old enuff yet to play for district, and why were you giving pitching lessons, I didn't know you played baseball professionally.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

Actually emu, the only point I made towards you is the eating crow comment after only three races. Went back and read my post and the majority of my comments are towards other posts. Guess I'll start sectioning them for those to follow.

I "root" for him because "of what I SAID" about his dad. Most people rooted for his dad. I did not. So since your questioning my intelligence, why would I say I wished he'd break his neck" if I were a fan of his dads?

As far as the baseball, why would you have to play professionally to have to qualify to teach someone? I'm sure you or your wife will teach your child how to read. Do you have a degree in English? More than likely not. This is not an insult to your intelligence. Just don't think there's too many English majors on this thread. I give lessons because I coach and the parents asked me too. Didn't say I was getting paid either. Did it for free. So I spent my afternoon helping out somebody elses kid become a better ballplayer. It's called being involved. Not being an expert. You know, volunteering. Hopefully oneday your son will play in district. I coached football, basketball, and baseball this year for my sons age group. I helped out and was the assistant coach on my middle daughters fastpitch softball team, and for my 14 year old, I just rooted her on with her fastpitch for the middle school. NOTICE, since you are such a strong reader, that I didn't say I was more important than the race. What I was doing was more important than the race.

As far as your overrated opinion, since I'm a nerd now, what expertise do you have to make that assumption? Are you an expert driver to say his skills are not what they need to be? Are you priviledged to information the rest of us do not know? Probably not. Your a fan which we all know is from fanatical. I do not care who anyone roots for or why they root for them. My beef is with people saying things they aren't qualified to say and doing it kind of dumb like. Didn't say you but read all the posts again and you have to admit that ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT, there are a few less than intelligent answers. You don't agree with that?


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## 270 guy (Mar 1, 2010)

MorganCounty1210 said:


> If its such a bad argument then why are you coming back for more? And what do you do while the races are going on???? Seems like your the one with panties in a wad , Judging people by what they type in a thread............



EXACTLY! He has no clue about why others don't race. Lets see most don't race because they didn't have a dad to fund there hobby like most drivers did for one. Some like myself could care less about racing but like to watch it from time to time. 

CC77 you always come back with some childish reply. You try to make yourself look like your above or smarter then the rest of the posters. It doesn't work we see right through you. 

 If it doesn't bother you why keep coming back running off about your boy toy JR? 

Can JR drive a race car sure...... anyone can drive one that doesn't make them a good or great race car driver now does it?

Your the one that can't handle the fact he is just an average everyday driver and can't hang with his team mates day in and day out. 

Many children can drive cars that doesn't make them good drivers. 

Please try and make a valid point when you try and defend your favorite driver next time.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey 270 guy, why don't you go back to the first page of this post where I SAID MY FAVORITE DRIVER IS STEWART?

Okay, how many boys or girls in this country have a daddy fund their hobby and never make it to Nascar because they aren't good enough?

Childish reply? I simply ask that people argue intelligently and that makes me childish? How can you see thru something when you can not even understand the argument? 

Boy toy Jr? Once again, a very intelligent statement considering that my favorite driver once again is Stewart. But you knew that because you actually bothered to read the whole thread right? If not, it's on page one.

All I have ever said is jr is qualified to race in Nascar. He is far from the worst and far from the best. Where did I ever say he was a great race car driver? Plrease tell me the specific post? All I ever said is I don't feel he's overrated but qualified and his stats are above average when compared to his counterparts. Is he the best? Heck no. But he's not the worst.

What I can't handle is the following:

Saying he's there just because of his dad.

Saying he's overated when he's what, 9th or 10th among active drivers in wins? He's not Johnson or Gordon or Stewart but he's not Derrick Cope either.

It bothers me that in all the threads in the sports section, we discuss only one driver, Earnhardt and if he can drive or not. Where are the threads about all the others? Why not a thread on who's better of the three, Johnson, Gordon, or Stewart? No because you people have just this taste in your mouth for him, over and over. And nothing anyone says changes anybodies mind on here, like him or hate him.

It bothers me when some posts on here like the speak worse than my 8 yr old. Just present your argument intelligently, like him or hate him. There are some posts on here that are pro jr that when I read them, I go, why post that? Do you know how dumb you looked. I'm critical to both sides. I like jr but he drives like garbage sometimes. But It's not hard to look smarter when so much dumb stuff gets put on here. Some anti jr fans put down some smart stuff.

Valid point about my favorite driver is I think is a total tribute to Stewart that he can leave a successful team, start his own from scratch, and run competetively weekend and week out. That's why I think he's the best. Valid "enuff fer ya"


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## DBM78 (Mar 1, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Hmmm, let's see. Three races. Two different winners, Johnson and McMurray. If my math is right, that leaves 41 other drivers without a win this year. How many of them should quit already since they haven't won yet? I still find it funny you people say he can't drive yet your sitting on your couch or whatever watching him and the others drive. Hmmm? Is that because your such an expert that the reason you don't drive, but sit at home, is because it wouldn't be fair to the other drivers because your that good? I don't think Kerry made that decision for himself but it was made by others.
> 
> 30 some odd races left in season and you guys are talking about eating crow?
> 
> The collective i.q. of some of you on this thread makes me completely understand why foxworthy and billy bob teeth are so popular. The man can drive else he wouldn't. Period. You can't drive better so you sit at home and watch. Period. Will he win many races? Probably not. Championships? Maybe not. But he's there and your not so get of your momma's basement, come into the sunshine, and just enjoy the race and get your panties out of a wad over someone's last name. My 14 yr old daughter and my 11 year old daughter make better arguments during their spats. You guys are ridiculous. At least Rednec is being quite but yes, the silence is loud, I'll grant you that.



Why are you giving Jr a pass for the past couple of years? You sound like he can just start over this season. 

Well here is a stat for you Jr is 1 win out of 138 races over the past 4 seasons.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 1, 2010)

So you dont like Jr, And you dont watch the races.......So your in this argument to judge peoples Intelligence? And their English? For a baseball coach you sure are bashful.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

No, you said jr was my favorite. I said stewart was. I have said earlier, since you can't bother to check anything that I said i liked jr. but stewart is my favorite.

I watch races every chance I get. Just not this weekend. nor last weekend but watched Daytona and will this weekend. 

Next intelligent question is what?


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 1, 2010)

Do you sit on your couch like us to watch the race? Or do you have a throne? And sip on expensive wine?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 1, 2010)

Nope. Sit on the couch. Don't drink wine. I like dark beer. Next?


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## DBM78 (Mar 2, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Why are you giving Jr a pass for the past couple of years? You sound like he can just start over this season.
> 
> Well here is a stat for you Jr is 1 win out of 138 races over the past 4 seasons.



Collins why did you skip over my post about Jr?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 2, 2010)

Sorry, just missed it. didn't skip over it.

I'm not giving him a pass. I think his performance over the past three years has absolutely sucked considering the beginning of his career. I don't think there's anywhere on this thread where I have said his performance lately was stellar.

What I have said is he is qualified to drive on his own merits. Not dad's.

I think right now, and most would agree, his performance is middle of the pack.

I do not think he's washed up. But he's not doing great.

My argument is why does everybody who hates him make him out to be the 43rd best driver in the field weekin and weekout? He's not. And over the course of his career, his wins and winnings and average finish does not warrant such things to be said. Again, he's not my favorite driver nor do I think he's in the top 10 currently on performance currently happening over the last few years. It blows people's mind that someone can question them, with facts, and all they can say is a bunch of mindless jibberjabber. 

I think if your competing in Nascar today, your there because you have talent. Period. If it were a name, Kerry would be there. But he doesn't have Jr's talent. Say what you want but all of them are among the best in the world.

If it were so easy, Danica wouldn't have such a problem with the differences in stock cars from formula one or whatever she drives.

My favorite sport is baseball and even the worst player on the worst team is still better than 99.9% of the world's population at what he does.

And all of these people on herewho say "Well, if my father had the money or for whatever reason, I'd be there" That's a bunch of crap. If you were that good, someone would see it. Blame your father or your circumstances for you not being there. But don't for a minute think you could do it better. Cause you can't, else you'd be there.

Like him or hate him. Whatever, I don't care. But he is among the best in the world at what he does. He's not the best. He's not the worst. He competes among the best. I went to the Bristol night race that he won a few years back and that night he and Rusty wallace were heads and tails the class of the field that night. Some races are better than others for certain people and that night he was on. Bristol is a race track where it does take some skill to win. This was before they changed the track when I feel the racing was better. I just can't sit here and say the man has no talent. Nor can I listen to it. That's just plain ignorant.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 2, 2010)

Kenseth is what, 2 wins in his last 72? Should he quit? Bobby Labonte hasn't won in his last 216 races (2003 Homestead is his last win) Why is there no thread about him?


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## Rednec (Mar 2, 2010)

They are not over rated drivers.....or media favs...


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

And Mr. Rednec, you prove my point so well. Here is but two examples of other drivers who are similar or even doing worse than Jr. and yet, you still in your infinite wisdom say Jr is overrated and these guys aren't.

Your logic makes me totally understand why our elections turnout the way they do. I mean people who think like you actually vote.

It's one thing to not like someone or to root against someone but to not give them their due or to say dumb things is well, just plain dumb. I do not root for Kyle Busch. Hate him when the race is on. BUT, off the track and not during a race I will tell you he is one of the best out there right now and I like his aggressive driving. But I'm not going to root for him. That's how it's done and it didn't hurt a bit and I still have my manhood.


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## Rednec (Mar 3, 2010)

Apparently you dont understand my words,,,,He is over rated maybe not by his own doing, than could be argued, but too much is expected of him, probably because of his dad. From what i have read he may be a fav among fans but not with many drivers...The diff is i like the other drivers & not jr...Attacking me doesnt save your argument, it only shows desperation.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Sorry, just missed it. didn't skip over it.
> 
> I'm not giving him a pass. I think his performance over the past three years has absolutely sucked considering the beginning of his career. I don't think there's anywhere on this thread where I have said his performance lately was stellar.
> 
> ...



You can't make an argument using Danica and Kerry Earnhardt. They both got opportunities because of money and that is a fact period end of story. Kerry Earnhardt wasn't that good to begin with but was put in a car cause of Daddy. Big deal Jr can drive better than his brother who tore up more cars than Carters got pills.

The problem though is Jr moved to HMS to win races and a championship which will not happen. I use to rip Eury Jr to no end but looking back it was not all of his fault. Jr hasn't ran good with his new CC. You know he has the best cars on the track yet can't finish in a decent position.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Kenseth is what, 2 wins in his last 72? Should he quit? Bobby Labonte hasn't won in his last 216 races (2003 Homestead is his last win) Why is there no thread about him?



Both of the above won a Championship. Kenseth has won a 500. Labonte is in and has been in poor equipment you can't compare that to a HMS car. Remember he left Gibbs for Petty when they were really down in a Dodge. Kenseth also beat Jr out for Rookie of the year. Why do think there is not a thread about them? Could it be they are not that popular compared to Jr? You figure it out. Kenseth wins 2 races in 72 that's not that bad thats a race a year.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

Rednec, desperation?  Try exasparation. You like other drivers. Good. so do I. But I had to go back and reread everything to see whom I talking to again. I forgot your the "Flag" guy. Hope you bothered to finally pick up a book and learn the correct Confederate Flags. Funny thing is, I mentioned to you the CORRECT differences in the flags and on 2-17 your post was that CC (being me) was bashing the flag. That we must be ashamed!! BULL! Somebody corrects your mistake and were bashing? Now I can figure out why you post what you do.

At least DBM78 uses his noodle. I don't always agree with him but he does think. Jr is overrated because of his dad now? Because of others?

DB, a question. I know there's a tweak here and a tweak there but if Nascar has all these rules, body rules, motor rules, etc, how can one always say that Hendricks equipment is so much better than others? I mean I'm sure there's minor differences, but tell me one MAJOR thing that Hendricks has on his cars that no other team has?

I'm asking this in a serious manner. I don't know the answer other than in research and development maybe but all the cars go under the microscope and measurements. Why do you say he has the best equipment? Could it be he has better drivers and crew chiefs? TAKE JR OUT OF THE QUESTION AS IF HE NEVER RACED THERE. Ask it again. Could he just have the two best drivers of the last ten years and maybe even 25 years in his stable? Seriously.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Rednec, desperation?  Try exasparation. You like other drivers. Good. so do I. But I had to go back and reread everything to see whom I talking to again. I forgot your the "Flag" guy. Hope you bothered to finally pick up a book and learn the correct Confederate Flags. Funny thing is, I mentioned to you the CORRECT differences in the flags and on 2-17 your post was that CC (being me) was bashing the flag. That we must be ashamed!! BULL! Somebody corrects your mistake and were bashing? Now I can figure out why you post what you do.
> 
> At least DBM78 uses his noodle. I don't always agree with him but he does think. Jr is overrated because of his dad now? Because of others?
> 
> ...



I can't believe you asked what HMS has that other don't. Where should I start?

Money has to be #1. Money for R&D. HMS also has their own engine program. Do you think they would sell off motors that had more HP to other teams? I'm sure they have the most employees which goes back to money. Their employees are all quality people. They have a owner who wants to win and very supportive. Do you Rick Hendrick would not give his teams anything they wanted if it meant winning. Some owners are not that fortunate to do so. HMS has 3 hall of fame drivers and then Jr. You can take just about any driver and put him in a good car and he is going to run good. You can also take any driver and put him junk and he will run like crap. All of the racecars may look the same but what HMS can do is test shocks, springs and build fames that handle better and are more balanced. Money to test at other tracks. 4 different cars to compare notes and testing information. That is how you win in the COT getting it to turn and be balanced. I will also add I don't care for Rick Hendrick I think he is a crooked used car salesman/nascar team owner. I don't care for any of the HMS drivers so this is just what I see as a fan.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

4 different cars? Why not set everyone up exactly the same? Same people. same R&D. Same shocks, springs , everything like you said.

Also, Jr ran better at DEI, right? So if Hendricks is that much better, then why.....................

Also, why didn't Mears run well with Hendricks? 

I think Gordon and Johnson  would run well anywhere with any team because their elite drivers. Martin made his HOF career with someone else for the most part.

I think the Hendricks thing is overrated. THE AVERAGE NASCAR TEAM MAKES $12.3 million IN PROFITS (Forbes 2007) 

ESTIMATED OPERATING INCOME FOR 2009
Hendricks $15,000,000
Roush $10,000,000
Penske $14,000,000
Childress $14,000,000
Stewart/Haas $9,000,000
This is also from Forbes.com 6-3-09 Now Hendricks has the highest worth and revenue.

But there isn't this great wide  gap between Hendricks and the other top teams so now, I ask you again since money isn't the issue in operating budgets of the teams, what does HMS have that others don't?

Johnson, Gordon 

Martin and Junior are just icing on the cake, especially jr for if nothing else, marketing. In 2007, Hendricks total revenue for licensing his drivers in endorsements, etc was around $17,000,000. That year, Jr beat them by himself.


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> HMS has 3 hall of fame drivers and then Jr. .



Huh?  They do? 

So you are gonna rail on Jr for not having a championship in 10 full years of racing but you are gonna take a driver the likes of Mark Martin who is entering his 30th year WITH NO CHAMPIONSHIPS and put him in the HOF? 



Dude, in all honesty, just go ahead and go chug you some more Hateraid so them sour grapes you are chewing on wont be so bitter for you  

You are a trip..........A very hypocritcal trip at that.


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## skeeter24 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> 4 different cars? Why not set everyone up exactly the same? Same people. same R&D. Same shocks, springs , everything like you said.




If only it were that easy.  Different drivers like different things which makes setting up the car that much more difficult.  A great handling car to Jimmie might be way too loose for Jeff or vice versa.

Hendrick was also the first one to have an inhouse 7 post shaker rig.  It took them and their engineers a couple of years to learn how to decipher the data and use it to their benefit on the track.  Now most of the big teams have one, but they are still a couple of years behind on engineering.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> Huh?  They do?
> 
> So you are gonna rail on Jr for not having a championship in 10 full years of racing but you are gonna take a driver the likes of Mark Martin who is entering his 30th year WITH NO CHAMPIONSHIPS and put him in the HOF?
> 
> ...



Yeah genius Mark Martin will be in the HOF more wins than Jr in Cup. Most wins all time in Grand National/Busch/Nationwide series history. Martin also named one of the 50 greatest Nascar driver ever.


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Yeah genius Mark Martin will be in the HOF more wins than Jr in Cup. Most wins all time in Grand National/Busch/Nationwide series history. Martin also named one of the 50 greatest Nascar driver ever.



Genius?

Im not the one that claimed a driver with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS should be in the HOF 

I couldn't care less what Mark Martin has done in Busch. Blah Blah Blah. Jr has TWO BUSCH CHAMPIONSHIPS yet you all whizz all over that all the time as if its nothing at all.

He has been racing 30 YEARS........I should certainly HOPE he has more wins than Jr does 

Keep it up.  Your hypocriscy knows no bounds evidently.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

skeeter24 said:


> If only it were that easy.  Different drivers like different things which makes setting up the car that much more difficult.  A great handling car to Jimmie might be way too loose for Jeff or vice versa.
> 
> Hendrick was also the first one to have an inhouse 7 post shaker rig.  It took them and their engineers a couple of years to learn how to decipher the data and use it to their benefit on the track.  Now most of the big teams have one, but they are still a couple of years behind on engineering.



I'm just about done its like these guys have only watched racing for a year or two. "Why don't you just set up the car all the same" . I've tried to spell it out for them they don't get it. Some people are just slow I guess. Well said Skeeter I didn't know about the shaker rig at HMS. Says a lot about how they are running things over there.

Yeah Jr ran good at DEI but that was the old car. He is having a tough time with the new COT. Its just a different animal.


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## emusmacker (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey CollinsCraft, YES I do help out with little league, and yes I do know how the games are played and the rules. For example, I played one year of football in pee wee league but I know the fundamentals of football, I know the blocks, the routes, the reads, etc. Just because I don't play football doesn't mean that I can't play.   I don't race cars because I have other things in life that I'd rather doo on the weekends, but who are to say That I can't drive a race car just because I don't.  

Yes Jr is overrated, not the worst driver out there. Overrated is doesn't mean he can't drive, it means that he's not as good as most people make him out to be.  Guess that qualifies as an unintelligent comment....My bad professor.

As far as volunteer work, yes I do vounteer to help out with many different programs.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> Genius?
> 
> Im not the one that claimed a driver with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS should be in the HOF
> 
> ...




Do you think Jr is HOF bound or deserves it more than Martin? If so list them out then.


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## emusmacker (Mar 3, 2010)

Ryano, you are bashing a guy for using Mark Martins Busch series record as wins, when in previous posts here you've often compared Jr's 2 busch championships, talking bout hypocritical   GEESH


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## specialk (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> ...Dude, in all honesty, just go ahead and go chug you some more Hateraid so them sour grapes you are chewing on wont be so bitter for you  .....


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Ryano, you are bashing a guy for using Mark Martins Busch series record as wins, when in previous posts here you've often compared Jr's 2 busch championships, talking bout hypocritical   GEESH





WHAT I SAID WAS dont come on here talking about what some driver has done in the Busch series when you wont take Jr's 2 championships into consideration.


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Do you think Jr is HOF bound or deserves it more than Martin? If so list them out then.



No..........Unless Jr wins more races and a championship or two he SHOULD NOT be in the HOF. 

Thats just my opinion


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## Rednec (Mar 3, 2010)

You must be off your meds, this is the thread bashing jr, not the Confederate flag...
jr's already done that, and you agreed with him remember?
desperation like jr....


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## UXO (Mar 3, 2010)

Personally, I think Jr has lost the desire to race that he used to have.  If you've seen many of his interviews over the last couple of years, he just looks tired and unhappy.  I'm sure part of that has to do with the way he's been running, but I think there's more to it than that.  He acts like he's only there because he's expected to be there.  Maybe being "Junior" has finally taken it's toll on him.  Who knows.  No matter the cause, he's no more than just an average driver with a lot of blind followers IMO.  

The arguement about people talking junk from their couch and Jr being a better driver than us is absolutely ridiculous.  Of course he'll outdrive someone that's never been in a stock car.  You're talking apples and oranges.  Had we all been given the same chance as him at an early age, who knows how it would play out.  

As far as Mark Martin goes, he is absolutely HOF worthy.  Although winning a championship is HUGE, you still can't deny that he's had a very successful career.  He's still out there winning races when most everybody else from his generation is gone.  He may still end up with a championship yet, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.


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## 270 guy (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Kenseth is what, 2 wins in his last 72? Should he quit? Bobby Labonte hasn't won in his last 216 races (2003 Homestead is his last win) Why is there no thread about him?



Because they havn't been hyped up by the media and fans over the years like JR has. They aren't over paid or over endorsed like JR is.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> No..........Unless Jr wins more races and a championship or two he SHOULD NOT be in the HOF.
> 
> Thats just my opinion



You just keep on digging you a hole.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

All of these Jr apologetics are fired up now.


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> You just keep on digging you a hole.



The only one around here I see digging themselves a hole is the one that thinks a 30 year veteran of the sport should be in the HOF based on their busch series accomplishments.

LOL! 

Whats next? You think Mark Martin deserves HOF because he is a nice guy?


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> All of these Jr apologetics are fired up now.



I havent apologized for anything and i am certainly in no way "fired up"


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

Dudes, seriously. Let's keep it simple.

One, Jr is not my favorite driver. I'm not apologizing for him. I think that while he may be overhyped by many, he is just as over bashed by the same.

DBM78, I respect that while I do not always agree with you, you present intelligent arguments. I understand enough to know that there are many different variables with multi car teams.

Rednec, if you and anyone else who wants to go back and read the total thread, YOU BROUGHT UP THE FLAG. Not me my friend. I just corrected you on the history of the flag. That is not bashing the flag. That is correcting someone who presented wrong information. I'm a proud southerner. I do not cringe at the sight of the flag when it is presented in a proper and respectable manner. Flying from the back of a pickup truck is not respectable to me or the history behind any confederate flag. Just because you are not informed enough to know which flag was the original and OFFICIAL confederate flag, don't accuse me of bashing the flag. Any one can go back and read for themselves and no where do I bash the flag. Just it's misrepresentation by those who fly it for no other reason than it's in your face, prowhite southern attitude. A true southern man knows the right flag. Period.

Mark Martin is HOF worthy. As of now, Jr is not and might never be. My point with other drivers is there are plenty of them out there with worse records than he.

UXO, if it's apples and oranges, then why does the same person sitting on their couch have the expertise to proclaim someone is not good enough. That's my point on that and if you read back, these are the people who say he's there only because of dad's name and money and how if they had the same.........you fill it in.

I do agree that maybe with all the corporate hype, it is possible he might be burned out some. That's a plausible explanation and one that can be argued both ways and each side would have good points.

As far as the overpaid post. Listen, people are paid what they are worth to a given employer. Junior gets what he gets because to that company, he is worth that. It's hard for some to swallow but to Hendricks, he is worth "x" amount because he brings Hendricks in "x" amount. It might just be the name and the face but in the business world, it's worth something. He makes companies money. Period. This is purely a dollars game on that side. If you don't believe it, just ask Budweiser. They'd love to have him back. Think Kahne sells beer? Nope. And that's a totally different part of the racing business. I promise you more people drink AMP (nasty) because jr drives the car than people shopping at Lowe's because of Johnson. Right or wrong, that's just the truth.

And emu, you questioned me about being qualified about baseball. I never said you weren't or couldn't. I think it's great if you do. But while I'm pretty darn good at what I do, do you think I could give Chipper Jones hitting advice or tell him he sucks? Likewise, while one may have decent knowledge about racing, does not qualify them to say Jr sucks.

That's just my opinion and if one looks closely, my comments have less to do about jr than it does to people thinking they are better qualified to judge a driver than those in the business who are experts.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> The only one around here I see digging themselves a hole is the one that thinks a 30 year veteran of the sport should be in the HOF based on their busch series accomplishments.
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Whats next? You think Mark Martin deserves HOF because he is a nice guy?



Just looked it up Martin has 40 career wins in CUP and is 17th on all time wins list. I guess not good enough for you though. That's more wins than Dale Jarrett and Tony Stewart.


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Just looked it up Martin has 40 career wins in CUP and is 17th on all time wins list. I guess not good enough for you though



And Jr is in the top 10 in wins of current active drivers...39th all time in A THIRD OF THE TIME it has taken Mark Martin....I guess thats not good enough for you though 

Only a hypocrite like you would judge Jr for his lack of championships yet praise a 30 year veteran that has none either. 

Go do some more googling and maybe you will keep on learning.


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## UXO (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> UXO, if it's apples and oranges, then why does the same person sitting on their couch have the expertise to proclaim someone is not good enough. That's my point on that and if you read back, these are the people who say he's there only because of dad's name and money and how if they had the same.........you fill it in.



I understand what you mean, but still kind of disagree.  If people were sitting around saying that they could outdrive Jr then I would agree 100% with what you're saying.  However, when Joe Schmoe sitting on their couch says that Jr is just an average driver based on his performance and in comparison to his peers then I don't see why it's unfair to make that statement.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

If it were that simple, then I'd have no problem. Heck, I've even said that on this thread. Biggest thing is in comparison to his peers.


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> If it were that simple, then I'd have no problem. Heck, I've even said that on this thread. Biggest thing is in comparison to his peers.



Jr is an after thought to his peers. If he has a good run that might get their attention cause they would be shocked.


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## runs with scissors (Mar 3, 2010)

JR will be "Making Excuses" come Sunday...aint that right RyaNO bUBS...LOL


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

ryano said:


> And Jr is in the top 10 in wins of current active drivers...39th all time in A THIRD OF THE TIME it has taken Mark Martin....I guess thats not good enough for you though
> 
> Only a hypocrite like you would judge Jr for his lack of championships yet praise a 30 year veteran that has none either.
> 
> Go do some more googling and maybe you will keep on learning.



And Ryano for your information I'm not a Mark Martin fan never have been. He drives a little to conservative for my liking. No telling how many races he could of one driving a more aggressive. I don't care for any of the HMS boys never have. But you come on here and trash Martin for what cause he never won a Cup. But the main difference between the two. Martin shows up to race on Sunday thinking he still has a shot at winning the race. Jr on the other hand is just going thru the motions. If you don't agree with this your watching something else every week.

I never said anything about Championships when comparing Martin and Jr so  find it on here or quit make things up. I know you Jr fans have some imagination but at some point you have to wake up and call what it is. Jr no longer cares or he doesn't want to do the work to get better its one of the two.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

Db, how can you say that? Do you have some inside info now that you are speaking for them? I would expect better from you. Why don't you give us some factual data on that, say maybe an interview or something.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

I do agree Martin is a very good racer and he does have the respect of his peers because we've heard them say it. I want to hear where his peers say jr is an afterthought


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Db, how can you say that? Do you have some inside info now that you are speaking for them? I would expect better from you. Why don't you give us some factual data on that, say maybe an interview or something.



That's just my opinion. No factual data what do you think Jr is going to come out and say tired of this and hate Nascar. I mean you can give a guy a pass only for so long. It was 2006 since Jr was a serious contender to win a race or championship. All of you Jr fans do you think he gives 100% every race? Do you think he could work on things to make him a better driver and just doesn't?


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

Just you said his peers think of him as an afterthought. That was your statement, not mine.

How do you know he doesn't try to make himself better? From what I've read and heard, he spent this offseason doing a lot of extra work at the shop and on the track in test sessions. We don't know what's in his heart and mind. We only guess. 

I still say, and yes it's my opinion, that it's harder today than ever to win a race, which makes johnson's feats all the more remarkable. For the most part, the parity is unbelievable. It's nit farfetched to say that 25 drivers in every race have a legit chance to win


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## DBM78 (Mar 3, 2010)

25 drivers is to high. 25 drivers could win any race. I say 8-10 have a legit shot at winning week in week out.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 3, 2010)

Perhaps


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## ryano (Mar 3, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> It was 2006 since Jr was a serious contender to win a race or championship. All of you Jr fans do you think he gives 100% every race? Do you think he could work on things to make him a better driver and just doesn't?



JR was a contender in 2008, his first year at Hendrick.....He entered the Chase in the top 5 in points.  It wasnt until AFTER the Chase started that they fell apart.  Some of that was Dale Jrs fault and some of that was Tony Jrs fault.

Yeah he only had that one win which everyone under the sun has questioned but the rest of the year was good enough to give him a great shot going into the Chase.

I have no idea how much Jr is giving every race or what else he could do to make himself a better driver....All I know is what the bossman says and that bossman says he feels Jr is giving 110 percent.  

Look man, just like Ive told every other Dale JR detractor on this forum for the last 7 years. I am certainly NOT saying Jr is a top driver........I am certainly NOT saying he ever will be either. 

To compare him to a Kyle Petty or say he is only keeping a ride because of his last name is just false and absurd though. 

I swear on my life if he won 10 races this year and the championship, some of yall would still find fault and my guess is, thats when the "Nascar is fixing races" comments would start.

Jr is in a lose lose situation here no matter what he does.....On the track or off.


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## skeeter24 (Mar 4, 2010)

ryano said:


> thats when the "Nascar is fixing races" comments would start.



I don't think that would happen unless there was legitimate reason to question that.  I don't have anything against Jr.  My wife is a Jr fan and we fly a Jr flag at every race.  I agree that he is talented enought to be in cup.

I did question NASCAR's decision at Talladega to allow a pass on Kenseth below the yellow.  Also questioned them black flagging Regan Smith when the officials had indicated in the truck race at Daytona that on the last lap coming to the checkered anything goes.

I don't think this makes me a Jr hater or a Regan Smith hater, just questioning the officials calls like I often do with football hockey or anything else.

You are going to have a couple of idiots in every group.  There are people out there who would dog Dale Jr even if he cured cancer.  You also have the apologist who would praise him even if he killed someone.  For the most part though, I feel that those people are few and far between.


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## specialk (Mar 4, 2010)

skeeter24 said:


> I don't think that would happen unless there was legitimate reason to question that.  I don't have anything against Jr.  My wife is a Jr fan and we fly a Jr flag at every race.  I agree that he is talented enought to be in cup.
> 
> I did question NASCAR's decision at Talladega to allow a pass on Kenseth below the yellow.  Also questioned them black flagging Regan Smith when the officials had indicated in the truck race at Daytona that on the last lap coming to the checkered anything goes.
> 
> ...




excellant post.........


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## emusmacker (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok Collins craft, first off why don't you go back and find where I said Jr sucked, I simply stated that he was overrated, that's all. He has not lived up to all his hype, and that means overrated. Period. But he's certainly not the worst driver either.Period

And Ryano, you say if Jr won 10 races a yr and a championship that his detractors would find some excuse to bash him, well turn it around man, If Jr goes 10 yrs and wins only 1 race there would still be some fans on here pulling out weak stats and defending his awesome skill as a driver, Championships are good, but for Jr a win would be good.  The best way to shut critics up is to prove em wrong, so until Jr proves me wrong I'm still gonna say he's overrated and is a sub par driver. 

I am a Harvick fan, when he first took over the ride at RCR everyone that were Earnhardt fans hoped and rooted for him to continue the legacy, well reality set in and he didn't live up to his expectations, does that mean he can't drive, no, but he too is sub par and could probably do better. You see Harvick fans know that he is a decent, notice CC I didn't say Best, driver and will win a few races and maybe a championship. But He's not the elite driver like Stewart, Johnson, Gordon, and as hard as it is to type this, even Baby bush, but We Harvick fans accept that, why can't Jr fans accept it?


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## emusmacker (Mar 4, 2010)

Sorry Professor CC that my post wuzn't inteligint enuff fer u to understand, and I'm so jellus of yer nahledge and argyin skills.


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## skeeter24 (Mar 4, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> I am a Harvick fan,  but he too is sub par and could probably do better.



This thread could use a break.....EMU do you think that Harvick will stay at RCR or do you think that he might be willing to leave and go to Stewart-Haas if Tony wanted him?


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## ryano (Mar 4, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> why can't Jr fans accept it?



I already have..........About 4 years ago   I have NEVER ONCE claimed Jr to be a top tier driver like Gordon or Johnson...........Lets give him a break though. He IS better than a Kyle Petty etc.

I will even go one further...........Jr needs to crap or get off the toilet. Its that time.

If he isnt happy anymore racing, he needs to quit and just be a car owner. There is no shame in that. Look at what Richard Childress was able to accomplish once he found out driving just wasnt for him anymore.

I imagine a win would go along ways though and boost the moral of Jr and that team 300 percent.

Whether or not that happens, remains to be seen though.

Im certainly not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.


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## emusmacker (Mar 4, 2010)

I hope Harvick stays at RCR but who knows with him. Personally I think it would foolish to move from a team that has the money and equipment and experience and go to a team that is starting out. Look at Truex, talk about a doodty doo moment.

Great Ryano, You admitted it, see that wasn't hard. But there are still some that will defend him to the end no matter what. I just can't wait to hear the INTELLIGENT comments from professor CollinsCraft. 

I love hearing about his calculations and statistical equations. Dang I think Spock from Star Trek would've been intimidated by CC.


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## Rednec (Mar 4, 2010)

See yall Sunday!


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emusmacker, 

Once again you fail me. I admitted long before that he wasn't the greatest or the worst. I used numbers to support that he wasn't near the bottom as most claimed. My defense of him was against people saying he wasn't any good. Never have I said he was awesome.

Also for the record, I made no calculations and no statistical equations were used. The numbers were out there already. I would think you would know the difference and how no equations were used but if it hurts you to add and think some, I'm sorry


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 4, 2010)

But I do like being called the professor. Professor CC. Nice ring to it


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## Wallhanger308 (Mar 5, 2010)

jr is the marketing machine at HMS while jj runs the race winning machine. Jr looks like a coat riding fool but he can sell the heck out for some t shirts at kmart and walmart but at the same time cant drive a car to save his life. Either way Rick is a rich man so to me signing jr was a GREAT move. Hendrick is making out good both ways. Who cares about jr hes an average driver at best but thats not what Rick hired him for. Jr was washed up long before he signed with HMS


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 5, 2010)

See emu, this is what I'm talking about. No you didn't say it but look at the above post.

Coat riding fool

can't drive a car to save his life

washed up

Perhaps now you can understand the frustration. And what was his pole speed for this race? But if one sucks so bad...........I give up!


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## DBM78 (Mar 6, 2010)

How many points did Jr get for winning the pole? Just wondering. Its not where you start its where you finish. AMS has got to feel like they hit the lotto. Jr on the pole. $1 tickets to help sell it out. And great weather predicted this weekend. Is that a trifecta?


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## rackman (Mar 6, 2010)

the pole pays money.and he donated a cool mil. to the junction camp gange


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## southerngreenscape (Mar 6, 2010)

ya'll junior lovers are right he can drive but he can't win, i thought they raced to win races and championships, not how much money they make. i will bet junior would give all his money away for a championship, because that is the only way he will ever win one.


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## mama'en nem (Mar 6, 2010)

This will be jrs last year. If his boss man is smart.  Of course he does sell alot of t-shirts and trinkets thanks to his paw so maybe they will keep him around.  He is one dull feller.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 6, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> And what was his pole speed for this race? But if one sucks so bad...........I give up!



He got pole.........But, we will watch him buckle under pressure after the first few laps. 

What can I say. He just cant hang with the big boys.


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## tony0345 (Mar 7, 2010)

two laps down so far


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 7, 2010)

????????????


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## tcward (Mar 7, 2010)

Junior is just being junior---never even led a lap--even from the pole!!


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## GEORGIA BULLDOG MAN (Mar 7, 2010)

*jr.*

if you saw the race today jr. sat on the pole, he didn't lead a single lap, he was 2 laps down at one point. i know alot of people had tire problems, but they managed their issues and had good finishes. from the flag drop jr went backwards. i think jr. has just lost it, if he even had it, i'm not sure about that.


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## K80 (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm not 100% but I think Jr stayed in the top 5 until he had problems.  Is that right?  Yes at one point he had it.  He still is better than most on the tract and will earn more money between now and when he is done than most of us could in 10 life times.

Lets just enjoy the races and stop the bickering about Jr or any other driver unless they bull a bone-head move like Edwards did today.


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## ACguy (Mar 7, 2010)

I think JR gets a pass for this race. So many guys having problems including his teams.


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## Rednec (Mar 7, 2010)

It was a good day for me...


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## specialk (Mar 7, 2010)

hmmm.....27th to 15th in 3 laps......who else done could do that......maybe his ''didee''??


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## tsknmcn (Mar 7, 2010)

15th, not bad considering.  At least that was better than Jeff, Kyle and 26 other drivers.  

Oh, I have wondered this about this thread for a while.  It is called "Dale Jr. fans" which means the original posters question was for fans of Dale Jr.  It seems a lot of people are fans and are pretending not to be.  

Anyway, that's my post in a thread for Dale Jr fans.  Since I am one, it counts.


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## Rednec (Mar 8, 2010)

The thread was how stupid HE looked wearing hat turned around and probably "pants on the ground"..

Yea, he finsihed 15th,,,How many ahead of him crashed in 3 laps?
My voo doo is still working..


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## emusmacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Hey who knows, he may even get another top 10 before the season is over. The funniest part to me is when he was interviewed before the race, he stated that he was VERY proud of the work that his team did in the off season to get him back on track.....Yep they did an AWESOME job so far.


Sorry Professor CC I had to make an unintelligent comment, considering this is a Jr thread, it hard to even use intelligence.

And I still waiting for that crow pie. I tell you what gets old, the old saying that "he will earn more money than you or me" so will Robby Gordon.  And these are probably the same folks that fuss at the Yankees for making all the money in baseball. Only difference, they actually have World Series ringsto show for their high dollar investments, and yep even sell hats and shirts too.


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## emusmacker (Mar 8, 2010)

And CC you fail me too, I never once said that you claimed he was the best, show me where I said that and then, only then can you correct me. But let me hear your intelligent definition of what overrated means. And if you want stats and numbers, I can do just like you and go to Nascar.com and look at his past performances and compare him to others sucky drivers too. Believe me CollinsCraft, it ain't hard to or INTELLIGENT to look stats up on the computer. But I simply don't do it because I know that even my 8 yr old son can do that, and figure that most people on here know how to also. Besides this is an OPINION thread, and if you like facts so much then why not start up a Dale Jr fact thread, I promise it won't be over half a page, but go ahead and throw them numbers out their you MASTER ARGUER YOU!!


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## Huntnhart (Mar 8, 2010)

Finishing in the 15 spot with a car that started on the pole is average......at best. And I believe that all the teams were using the same tire. Jr. seems to be a great guy, but with the equipment he is in he is way under performing.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 9, 2010)

Emu,

That time of the month? Why don't you cry a little bit. It's okay.

Overrated - in my definition and opinion means someone or something is not worthy of the hype someone has given them. That was something was not as good to someone after hearing someone else position on the matter.

I do not feel ANYONE in NASCAR is overrated because they are the best in the world at what they do. You can rank them 1 thru 43 but geez, 43 out of how many in this world? Oh thats right, you don't like numbers.

Or facts. The numbers are nothing more than facts. Not opinions. But you onion heads that act like opinion is fact do nothing more than make me laugh. It's funny to me.

Like your "I couldn't make an intelligent comment cause this is a Jr thread"

What a load of garbage.  It also compares him to the great drivers as well but that wouldn't help your pitiful argument either.

Funny you bring up the money thing too. The Yankees prove year in and year out it's hard in baseball to buy a championship. It happens every so often but, and the numbers don't lie, it's not a given. I think they all deserve every cent they get. I'm not one to say none of them are worth the millions they make. They are.

So as far as your opinion goes, try looking at the numbers or facts before basing any opinion because an opinion not based on fact is just wasted air, which you seem to be doing a lot of.

Glad to know I'm under your skin because the dribble you guys throw out makes me cringe.


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2010)

Dude trust me you're not getting under my skin, but those weak statements you make about ranking them 1 out of 43 and the number of drivers out there. Well honestly dude I don't know that many "NASCAR" drivers around here. Course that probably because I'm from a little hick town anyway.


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## emusmacker (Mar 10, 2010)

CC, I make comments and aguements all in good fun, it really doesn't matter to me, as I've said before I'm a Harvick fan and don't hate Jr but to make this more comprehendable, In my opinion compared to a few other drivers currently in NASCAR, I think that Jr is overrated. But that is comparing him to other NASCAR drivers, not the everyday, iterstate drivers that drive cars, only compared to his fellow competitors. 

I just think it's funny how you want an opinion based on facts, most opinions are based on how individuals view things, as far as stats go, Jeff Gordon has bettre stats than Dale Earnhardt Sr but Dale is considered the best  ever. So there are many different variables when looking at stats. But that being said, I have a right to say Jr is overrated, and don't really care what you or any other of your INTELLECTUAL buddies think. It's all in good fun man, so take the pacifier out of your mouth and just relax, you'll make it ok.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 10, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> CC, It's all in good fun man, so take the pacifier out of your mouth and just relax, you'll make it ok.


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## CollinsCraft77 (Mar 10, 2010)

Dude, I'm sorry but I do think Jeff Gordon is better than Sr. I know that sounds crazy but I do.

here are no variables with stats. The numbers are there or there not. If it hurts your head to think everyonce in awhile, We will keep the numbers little. 

Pacifier? Shows your thinking. Babies put the pacifier in to relax. you can't even get that right. Proof is Morgan County thought it was funny. He's right,

Stupid is as Stupid does.


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## 270 guy (Mar 10, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Dude, I'm sorry but I do think Jeff Gordon is better than Sr. I know that sounds crazy but I do.
> 
> here are no variables with stats. The numbers are there or there not. If it hurts your head to think everyonce in awhile, We will keep the numbers little.
> 
> ...


It's funny watching the JR supporters try and degrade the ones who don't like JR as much.  His lack of driving skills compared to his team mates and other top drivers isn't the Nascar fans fault. Why degrade them or try and look like you smarter or above them? The amount of money one makes doesn't mean there a good race car driver. 

Oh by the way I highlighted a couple of mistakes you made just so you would know for next time since you like to correct everyone else and trash them when they mess up.


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## Bubbaforsure (Mar 10, 2010)

Dale Jr problem is not the car, team, where or how he is running.....
The problem is...he's   SCARED!


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 10, 2010)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> Dude, I'm sorry but I do think Jeff Gordon is better than Sr. I know that sounds crazy but I do.
> 
> here are no variables with stats. The numbers are there or there not. If it hurts your head to think everyonce in awhile, We will keep the numbers little.
> 
> ...



I just find it odd you are still bickering like a little kid. 

BTW its MorganCounty. 

Stupid Is As Stupid Does.


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## MorganCounty1210 (Mar 10, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Oh by the way I highlighted a couple of mistakes you made just so you would know for next time since you like to correct everyone else and trash them when they mess up.



Golden!


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## emusmacker (Mar 11, 2010)

No actually CC, a pacifier can also be used to stop a baby from whining, and also, I just got a call from your homeroom teacher and she said to tell you to get off the computer!

You think Gordon is better than Sr and I think Jr is overrated, shows your thinking there dude, an opinion without facts to support it is just wasted air. And by the way, that was a quote I borrowed from you CC, hope you don't mind. Now wash up, it's time for dinner.


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## Swamprat (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey Jr....hurry up with my fries. My burger is getting cold.


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## brownceluse (Mar 13, 2010)

Swamprat said:


> Hey Jr....hurry up with my fries. My burger is getting cold.


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## Andy Parker (Mar 13, 2010)

Everybody knows dirt is for racing and asphalt is for getting there.


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