# Creation/evolution



## blindhog (Mar 19, 2006)

If you are a believer in Jesus as Saviour, how can you reconcile believing God used evolution?
It would be against His word.

For evolution to happen it means there would have been death before sin occured.  Simple.  This is not what God has told us.

Evolution still requires "faith" in some kind of creative force for the adaptive type changes to have occurred.

Just what exactly tells the cells to make the leap from one species to another??
Science has no provable answer to this.

Evolution requires a type of "Faith", a belief in an unseen force.

Evolution therefore is a religion.  It is a religion from the doctrines of devils.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Mar 19, 2006)

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=55281&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=50505&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=44658&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=39707&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=34387&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=33386&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=32583&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=22410&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=20671&highlight=evolution
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=55675
I don't believe in evolution but this old horse has been beat to death and nobody has changed their minds. These links will provide you with a little reading.


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## Randy (Mar 19, 2006)

I believe in evolution.


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## CAL (Mar 19, 2006)

Where do you think the cells and organisms came from to cause evolution?I think something had to create them.


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## Randy (Mar 19, 2006)

God.  I think God created man through evolution.  God create everything.


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## blindhog (Mar 19, 2006)

Randy said:
			
		

> God.  I think God created man through evolution.  God create everything.



Do you believe the Christian Bible?

If so......how do you reconcile God saying NO death entered the world until SIN entered?  And sin entered after Adam and Eve.


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## deerslayer1988 (Mar 19, 2006)

Will if ya want to get religeous and really read into every thing answer this ?. What happened to the dinaosours? Seince say's that the ice age killed them off but the bible says nothing about any ice age. if the water froze when God flooded the earth that would explain it if Noah forgot to do what God said and didn't put 2 of every animal on the ark. Who know's the answer God is the only one.


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## Randy (Mar 19, 2006)

blindhog said:
			
		

> Do you believe the Christian Bible?
> 
> If so......how do you reconcile God saying NO death entered the world until SIN entered?  And sin entered after Adam and Eve.



Well this is only my interpretation, but I think it meant "eternal death."  One way I think about it is there were angles before Adam and Eve right?  Even the Devil was an angle cast out.  Either these angles were once living creatures or they were "just there" like God.  I think they died and went to be with God.  But I am also the first to admit I do not know the answer to your question.  In fact I don't think we EVER will.


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## Randy (Mar 19, 2006)

deerslayer1988 said:
			
		

> Will if ya want to get religeous and really read into every thing answer this ?. What happened to the dinaosours? Seince say's that the ice age killed them off but the bible says nothing about any ice age. if the water froze when God flooded the earth that would explain it if Noah forgot to do what God said and didn't put 2 of every animal on the ark. Who know's the answer God is the only one.




The Bible does not even mention dinasours.  OK there is that one leviathon but that is a quick mention for such creatures.

Think about this.  You do not even have to go back to the begining.  If you believe the Bible literally, two of everything was on the ark!  Look at all the animals we have now.  Two of everything could not have been on the ark.  That means to me there has been evolution just since then.  Course I do not believe the whole world was flood either so the point in my opinion is kind of mute.  I believe the world "as they knew it" which was rather small was flooded.

This could get out of hand real quick, huh?


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## blindhog (Mar 19, 2006)

About dinosauers:

http://www.answersingenisis.org/docs/2.asp


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## NOYDB (Mar 19, 2006)

*What the heck.....*

This is the world that was made by God. It is the way it is because god wants it this way. What ever we find out about the world (include universe) is what God did. If there is evolution it is because God created evolution and that's what he/she/it put in motion. 

To deny reality is to deny God. 

Most deny reality because it means God might have something more in mind than them, personally, being the center of creation. That God just might have created a infinite universe as something more than a stage for them to act out the 80 some odd years of their life. 

It's an ego thing.


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## 243Savage (Mar 19, 2006)

If man evolved from apes....why do we still have apes?


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## redwards (Mar 19, 2006)

Randy said:
			
		

> ....angles ...angle cast out. ...angles


What's an angle?   Is it this?   /__


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## leroy (Mar 19, 2006)

243Savage said:
			
		

> If man evolved from apes....why do we still have apes?



thats me if this were so what stopped it, you should be able to see different stages of the evolution today.


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## brofoster (Mar 19, 2006)

First of all the Bible is "Godbreathed" and is his inspiring word.  He told me that he made Adam a living soul and breathed life into him from the dirt.  Not Clyde the monkey and I believe God because it is all that I have.  FAITH, without it, it is impossible to please God or go to heaven.  Dinosaurs.  First off, time is not relavent to God.  He was before, he is now, and will be forever.  He has no need for time.  Time is relavent to you and I.  Who knows what God has done to the earth. Don't stick with carbon dating, and scientist, stick with God.  He will answer all of our questions when we get there.


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## Jeff Phillips (Mar 19, 2006)

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

LOT'S of great info on the site above!


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Mar 19, 2006)

17 and counting...........


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## FESTUSHAGGIN (Mar 19, 2006)

brofoster said:
			
		

> First of all the Bible is "Godbreathed" and is his inspiring word.  He told me that he made Adam a living soul and breathed life into him from the dirt.  Not Clyde the monkey and I believe God because it is all that I have.  FAITH, without it, it is impossible to please God or go to heaven.  Dinosaurs.  First off, time is not relavent to God.  He was before, he is now, and will be forever.  He has no need for time.  Time is relavent to you and I.  Who knows what God has done to the earth. Don't stick with carbon dating, and scientist, stick with God.  He will answer all of our questions when we get there.


good post


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## FESTUSHAGGIN (Mar 19, 2006)

please people i beg of you let this nonsense die.  this conversation has been had so many times.  if you want to have it again just go read the posts.  ngmm has already linked them.  not one single ounce of good can possibly come from this discussion.  i am not threatening to pull anything, i just ask that it die.  im sick of seeing this.  nobody will win this argument.  noones opinion will be changed.  the only possible outcome is that someone gets ticked off and then problems will occur.  please  no more evolution/ creation chatter


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## SBG (Mar 20, 2006)

So where does it get discussed? First we are told not to discuss it here. Okay, a member makes a thread at the Around the Campfire. Then, it is moved back here. Then, people complain about it being discussed here.

I personally have said my two cents on the subject, and no, my mind won't be changed. But, if people want to opine on the subject, I fail to see the harm in it. 

It really gets a little old for some member to make a thread and then have it lambasted...even if it has been discussed ad nauseam. If you are not interested in reading it, don't.

Have a little more respect for the member that made the thread.


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## Spotlite (Mar 20, 2006)

SBG said:
			
		

> So where does it get discussed? First we are told not to discuss it here. Okay, a member makes a thread at the Around the Campfire. Then, it is moved back here. Then, people complain about it being discussed here.
> 
> I personally have said my two cents on the subject, and no, my mind won't be changed. But, if people want to opine on the subject, I fail to see the harm in it.
> 
> ...



Thanks SBG, people dont realize that other people have not discussed things and think just because they have discussed it that it should not be posted anymore. I am not going to post on the subject though, I have discussed it before and still dont believe in evolution. I mean what in the world could my mother in law evolved from  Just kidding.


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## Spotlite (Mar 20, 2006)

243Savage said:
			
		

> If man evolved from apes....why do we still have apes?


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 20, 2006)

Here is a statement I have heard before...

Why couldn't God make a Mature earth? Meaning already having fossils, and layers and all??

I personally believe the Bible literally, It took 6 days(24 hour periods) to create everything.

DB BB


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## DCHunter (Mar 20, 2006)

243Savage said:
			
		

> If man evolved from apes....why do we still have apes?



Evolutionists don't believe we evolved from apes. They believe apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor. There's a big difference there. I'm not trying to take up for them, I'm just clearing up the belief.


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## NOYDB (Mar 20, 2006)

The biggest flaw in the theory of evolution is that not everyone has.


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## Randy (Mar 20, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> Here is a statement I have heard before...
> 
> Why couldn't God make a Mature earth? Meaning already having fossils, and layers and all??
> 
> ...



So you believe the world is only 6000 years old and God put fossils in he ground just to throw us off?


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 20, 2006)

Randy,

No, I believe the flood took care of the fossils.

I was just bringing up something that somebody else once raised in a discussion like this.

If you believe that God used evolution to come up with everything, than you are also proposing that God didn't know what he wanted in the first place. That God was just seeing what happens. I believe in an omnicient God, one that knows what has, what is, and what will be, in all aspects. To reduce God to an indecisive child playing with chemicals, cells, DNA and just seeing what comes out, is an insult to God, and trying to put Man's interpertation into what happened to explain how they got here is just another instance for not having to answer for what they do in their life.

DB BB


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## NOYDB (Mar 20, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> Randy,
> 
> No, I believe the flood took care of the fossils.
> 
> ...



Actually, the insult to God is from those that think THEY can set the parameters of what God can do, or not. What God wants, or not. 

And that they are the end result desired.

Accepting the evidence doesn't diminish God in any way. But it may mean that you/we/us aren't quite the be all, end all, of creation. That God may have other plans going on. 

For some that is such a blow to their self esteem they'd rather kill people than entertain the thought.

Oh and BTW, our closest remaining relative is the Chimpanzee not Apes.


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## StriperAddict (Mar 20, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> If you believe that God used evolution to come up with everything, than you are also proposing that God didn't know what he wanted in the first place. That God was just seeing what happens. I believe in an omnicient God, one that knows what has, what is, and what will be, in all aspects. To reduce God to an indecisive child playing with chemicals, cells, DNA and just seeing what comes out, is an insult to God, and trying to put Man's interpertation into what happened to explain how they got here is just another instance for not having to answer for what they do in their life.
> 
> DB BB



Grrrreat post, worth repeating & fowarding to my email list.

Thanks


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 20, 2006)

NOYDB said:
			
		

> Actually, the insult to God is from those that think THEY can set the parameters of what God can do, or not. What God wants, or not.
> 
> And that they are the end result desired.
> 
> ...




God saw fit to send Jesus in flesh, so you are telling me that the human body that Jesus came in was not the end all? That sure does sound like an insult to God to me.

Oh and BTW, your closest remaining relative may be the Chimpanzee, he is not mine.

DB BB


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## PWalls (Mar 20, 2006)

All comes down to Faith. I have faith in the word of God for my salvation. I have faith in the teaching of Jesus. Therefore, I have faith in the rest of the Bible.

Read Chapter 11 in the book of Hebrews. It tells what can be accomplished through faith.

Henry Blackaby says it best in a devotional book I have that he wrote. If you doubt God, then your faith is in question. How can you have faith in one part of His word and then doubt other parts?


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## brofoster (Mar 20, 2006)

Ole Double Barrel strikes again backed up by StriperAddict.  I can always count on you guys to be on the right side of the fence.


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## Randy (Mar 20, 2006)

Actually, God did change his mind.  Even if you take the Bible literally.  He first created the Heavens and the earth.  As the days went along he added stuff to make it better.  Of course he could have done it all in one day.  But it was a work in progress.  Once he created woman, he figured he'd better stop before he messed up something else. (That was a joke).

Obviously I do not know 100% as neither do you.  Further we never will.

Another thought, it also does not matter.  To many things like this are used by the Devil to divide us.

You say if I believe this I am not a Christian.  You judge and you are nota Christian.  We can discuss this all we want to.   I can asure you neither one of us is totally right.


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 20, 2006)

So you can pick and choose what parts of the bible you believe?

It is alot better to believe the Bible literally and be wrong than to believe just bits and pieces. After all Genesis is the building blocks of the Bible. If you can't believe it word for word than how can you believe that rest of the Bible.

Just as PWalls stated in his post:
"Henry Blackaby says it best in a devotional book I have that he wrote. If you doubt God, then your faith is in question. How can you have faith in one part of His word and then doubt other parts?"


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## Flash (Mar 20, 2006)

FESTUSHAGGIN said:
			
		

> not one single ounce of good can possibly come from this discussion.



 What if GOD used the discussion to bring a person reading to the saving knowledge of Jesus?????  I know it seems like folks on both sides won't budge but you never know what is going on inside ones heart.

 Now back to Randy's Angles


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## NOYDB (Mar 20, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> Oh and BTW, your closest remaining relative may be the Chimpanzee, he is not mine.
> 
> DB BB



Yes, they are. You can play all the mind games you want. But your DNA tells the tale. And that's the way God made it.

And while I can't say for sure what God was thinking, I suspect that Jesus was sent in human form because a large rabbit woudn't have worked as well. 

The universe is 13.7 billion years old, give or take a few allowing for federal holidays, and I believe God isn't done yet.


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## SE.GAcoondawg (Mar 20, 2006)

Gen. 1:26,27


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## blindhog (Mar 20, 2006)

It's real simple, no need to make things complicated.  It is either you believe the Word of God in it's entirety, or you pick and choose what to believe, which is not following the whole counsel of the Lord.

Simplicity in Christ.

God said the day you eat of the forbidden fruit YOU SHALL SURELY DIE!

DIE......( Hebrew) muwth, mooth;  a prim. root;  to die (lit. or fig.);  causat. to kill:-  at all,  crying, (be) dead (body, man, one,)  put to, worthy of death, destroy

This word cannot mean spritual death, for then all would be condemmned with no chance of salvation in the spiritual.
the world, from the sin , received this physical death curse.

AS A RESULT OF SIN!

Therefore:  NO DEATH BEFORE SIN!

 So you see evolution requires death before the sin of Adam.

Evolution requires "faith" in some creative power, for the changes to occur, even if ever so slowly as this hogwash suggest.


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## LKennamer (Mar 20, 2006)

*good one!*



			
				NOYDB said:
			
		

> The biggest flaw in the theory of evolution is that not everyone has.



     I can second that one.


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## Spotlite (Mar 21, 2006)

NOYDB said:
			
		

> Yes, they are. You can play all the mind games you want. But your DNA tells the tale. And that's the way God made it.
> 
> And while I can't say for sure what God was thinking, I suspect that Jesus was sent in human form because a large rabbit woudn't have worked as well.
> 
> The universe is 13.7 billion years old, give or take a few allowing for federal holidays, and I believe God isn't done yet.




This statement looks like a joke but I didnt laugh at it 

13.7 billion years,  not according to the Bible, science yes  but not Bible. Same thing with evolution, Science yes,  but not Bible.


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## Jody Hawk (Mar 21, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> Randy,
> 
> No, I believe the flood took care of the fossils.
> 
> ...



Well said Double Barrel !!!!


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## Spotlite (Mar 21, 2006)

Randy said:
			
		

> The Bible does not even mention dinasours.




Randy the only thing about statements like this is the actual word "Rapture" is not in the Bible either, but its meaning is, the taking away, what it describes when he returns for us. There are scriptures that describe large animals in the Bible.


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## Randy (Mar 21, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> It is alot better to believe the Bible literally and be wrong than to believe just bits and pieces.....
> 
> How can you have faith in one part of His word and then doubt other parts?"[/COLOR]



OK if we are to believe the Bible literally then only one religion/Denomination is correct.  Not sure which one that is but the rest of us are wrong.  You know each and every religion/denomination bends the word to their interpretation.  Of course I believe God intended it that way.  You read the Bible and he tells you how it applies to YOUR life.  It is a guide to living our life.


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 21, 2006)

I believe that if you take the Bible literally, there will be no denomination nonsense. What you read is what you read.

Saying that I do believe there is only one true church, that is the Church that Christ started.

Randy,

Have you ever read the "Trail of Blood"?
http://hometown.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm


DB BB


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## sandhill93 (Mar 21, 2006)

Anyone who has made a post on here worth reading needs to pick up the book by Lee Stroebel called Case for a Creator. I have posted this before, but I strongly recommend this book. It will solve some of the ridiculous questions being posted on here. If you doubt me, Read the Book!


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## Randy (Mar 21, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> I believe that if you take the Bible literally, there will be no denomination nonsense. What you read is what you read.
> 
> Have you ever read the "Trail of Blood"?
> http://hometown.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
> DB BB



Every Denomination has read the Bible and yet there are a lot of interpretations.  Which one is right?  Just the Baptists?

No sir I have not red the "Trail of Blood" but I have read the Bible.


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## Randy (Mar 21, 2006)

sandhill93 said:
			
		

> Anyone who has made a post on here worth reading needs to pick up the book by Lee Stroebel called Case for a Creator. I have posted this before, but I strongly recommend this book. It will solve some of the ridiculous questions being posted on here. If you doubt me, Read the Book!



While I have not read this book I have read many others on this subject.  I have also seen some Videos.  They all have their reasons for or against creation/evolution.  And they each claim to be right and they each have been based on scripture and science.  I suspect this book is a good as the others and also offers another good theory.


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## DCHunter (Mar 21, 2006)

One question I have about taking the Bible totally literally is this. If we believe that Revelations is filled with symbolism, which is a non-witness account of something in the future, couldn't it also be true about Genesis, another non-witness account of what happened in the past? Do you actually believe things like 4 horsemen are going to decend upon the earth or do you believe they are symbols describing what is going to happen?


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## Randy (Mar 21, 2006)

The Bible is full of alagories and parables.


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## NOYDB (Mar 21, 2006)

Randy said:
			
		

> The Bible is full of alagories and parables.



Yes it is. It is also full of wisdom distilled over thousands of years. while there is a lot new in technology and science, there's not much new with human beings. The golden rule is valid past, present and in the future.

Since y'all like to read about this so much, look up and read about how the various versions of the Bible came to be. What was included and what was left out and by whom.

Of course if you truly have faith in God, it doesn't matter. Whatever God does is what you believe.


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## Randy (Mar 21, 2006)

NOYDB said:
			
		

> Since y'all like to read about this so much, look up and read about how the various versions of the Bible came to be. What was included and what was left out and by whom.
> Of course if you truly have faith in God, it doesn't matter. Whatever God does is what you believe.



I have done that to.  And it is another reason I do not take it literally.  There is one thing in there that truly matters and has to be taken literally.  All the other stuff is a great guide to live as God would have us live.


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 21, 2006)

Randy said:
			
		

> Every Denomination has read the Bible and yet there are a lot of interpretations.  Which one is right?  Just the Baptists?
> 
> No sir I have not red the "Trail of Blood" but I have read the Bible.



No I believe that the First Church and it's true decendents(true churches) are the ones that are right. But that is another topic completely...

I just asked if you had read the "Trail of Blood" Since you seem to be a well read fellow....I assumed you may have....

DB BB


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## DCHunter (Mar 21, 2006)

Does anyone have an answer to my question?


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## FESTUSHAGGIN (Mar 21, 2006)

DCHunter said:
			
		

> Does anyone have an answer to my question?


to answer your question interpretation of the bible should come from prayer.


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## DCHunter (Mar 21, 2006)

FESTUSHAGGIN said:
			
		

> to answer your question interpretation of the bible should come from prayer.



I was actually asking the people who believe that if you take Genesis symbolically that you have a lack of faith.


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## Double Barrel BB (Mar 21, 2006)

DCHunter said:
			
		

> I was actually asking the people who believe that if you take Genesis symbolically that you have a lack of faith.



Faith is different for everyone.

I think peoples faith grows as they become more knowledgable in the Bible. Not everyone is going to have the same faith.

I choose to believe the Bible over science(even though I am a Chemist), because I would rather rest on what the Bible says than to put my faith in something else.

No one is going to change anyones else's mind here, we are all set in our Faith. Because it seems that we will all fight to the bitter end for what we believe in.

DB BB


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## DCHunter (Mar 21, 2006)

Double Barrel BB said:
			
		

> Faith is different for everyone.
> 
> I think peoples faith grows as they become more knowledgable in the Bible. Not everyone is going to have the same faith.
> 
> ...



Yep, and it all boils down to whether or not we believe Jesus died for our sins or not and whether or not we accept it . To me, that's what really matters.


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## sandhill93 (Mar 21, 2006)

DCHunter said:
			
		

> Yep, and it all boils down to whether or not we believe Jesus died for our sins or not and whether or not we accept it . To me, that's what really matters.



Very well said!


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## blindhog (Mar 21, 2006)

FESTUSHAGGIN said:
			
		

> to answer your question interpretation of the bible should come from prayer.



I agree but with the addition of scripture to interpret scripture.

The plain and simple used to explain and give a parameter for interpreting the "not so plain and simple".


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