# The Great Commission from Jesus



## HawgJawl (Jan 31, 2012)

Was the Great Commission from Jesus directed solely at His disciples, or was it directed at all future believers as well?

When Jesus refers to those who believeth, is He only speaking of His disciples, or all in the future who believe?


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## Huntinfool (Jan 31, 2012)

It was directed at the disciples.  But he told them to go teach others to obey all the things he taught them.

So....it was directed at future believers.

Make sense?


_Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, * and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you*._


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## HawgJawl (Jan 31, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It was directed at the disciples.  But he told them to go teach others to obey all the things he taught them.
> 
> So....it was directed at future believers.
> 
> ...




So that's one vote for YES.

The options are:

(A)  Yes

(B)  No

(C)  Just the parts that I like were directed at me.


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## stringmusic (Jan 31, 2012)

When Jesus says "to all who believe" I include myself in that catagory.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 31, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Was the Great Commission from Jesus directed solely at His disciples, or was it directed at all future believers as well?
> 
> When Jesus refers to those who believeth, is He only speaking of His disciples, or all in the future who believe?



The highlighted being from Mark, I assume you are also asking about snake handling and drinking poison, correct?
Or am misunderstanding?


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## Israel (Jan 31, 2012)

How much is in the book!
Or:
How much is in the book?

I remember hearing a brother once who said this at a meeting.

A man has a dog beside him, he throws a stick and says "fetch."
The dog obediently runs out and retrieves the stick dropping it at his master's feet.
The man picks up the stick and again throws it and says "fetch".
Again the dog returns the stick at his feet.
The man again picks up the stick and throws it, and says, to his obedient friend, "stay".

There are many lessons in the life of a disciple that are to bring us to one place, and one place alone...


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## Ronnie T (Jan 31, 2012)

If a person calls themselves a Christians, they rightly 'should' be refering to themselves as disciples also.

The book of Revelation begins with Jesus passing along letters to churches.  Many of these churches were in trouble because they had not continued on with the practices and faithfulness given to them by Jesus' apostles.

Many times, the scriptures tells us all to continue on with the things that have been taught from the beginning of Christ's kingdom.

2 Timothy 2:2
The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Your question is a no-brainer with only one possible answer.
Did the US Constitution only apply to those who learn it 'first handed'?



.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 31, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> If a person calls themselves a Christians, they rightly 'should' be refering to themselves as disciples also.
> 
> The book of Revelation begins with Jesus passing along letters to churches.  Many of these churches were in trouble because they had not continued on with the practices and faithfulness given to them by Jesus' apostles.
> 
> ...



Amen!!  All of us believers are called to do that....we should be 'discipled' in church to do so.

Surely y'all don't think I'm on here spilling my guts to the naysayers unless I felt like God gave me all that as a testimony to His 'gospel'....do ya?

I once wondered and even had a few choice words for God for 'letting' me go thru all that....but now I know why. It's to help other young women(or anyone else) to know the promises that God has for them...promises that no man can fulfill.


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## ambush80 (Feb 1, 2012)

Israel said:


> How much is in the book!
> Or:
> How much is in the book?
> 
> ...



That's gross.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 1, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> That's gross.



Huh?

I don't get it....what's gross about teaching a dog another command after it's learned the first command?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 1, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Your question is a no-brainer with only one possible answer.
> Did the US Constitution only apply to those who learn it 'first handed'?
> 
> 
> ...



Move over, let me help you stir that pot!!


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## Israel (Feb 1, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> That's gross.



If your resistance is to the analogy, I understand.
If you do not have the experience of facing a situation you have faced in some fashion before, but now find a very different instruction regarding your part in it, I also understand that.
If you say you know nothing about instruction, or needing it, perhaps that's the easiest of all for me to understand.

The school of Christ never lets out.

Not because the Headmaster finds us so stupid, but he just loves being with us, and there is always something new to behold in his light.


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## JB0704 (Feb 1, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It was directed at the disciples.  But he told them to go teach others to obey all the things he taught them.
> 
> So....it was directed at future believers.
> 
> Make sense?



^^^^this.

If they were taught to teach the next group, then the instructions is passed from one to the next, and so on.


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## StriperAddict (Feb 1, 2012)

Israel said:


> The school of Christ never lets out.
> 
> Not because the Headmaster finds us so stupid, but he just loves being with us, and there is always something new to behold in his light.


 
Thanks for another precious addition my brother.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 1, 2012)

The Great Commission

Mark 16:15-18
And He said unto them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.  And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Who wants to change their answer to (C) "Only the parts I like apply to me"?

There are only two catagories mentioned here; those who believe (saved), and those who do not believe (condemned).  The scripture describes in great detail exactly how to determine who fits into the saved catagory.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 1, 2012)

I knew it.


.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 2, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Thanks for another precious addition my brother.



x2...


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## mtnwoman (Feb 2, 2012)

There's a reason the gospel has lasted for 2000 yrs......obedience to the Great Commission.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> It was directed at the disciples.  But he told them to go teach others to obey all the things he taught them.
> 
> So....it was directed at future believers.
> 
> ...




Do you believe that Jesus directed Mark 16: 15-18 at you?


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> When Jesus says "to all who believe" I include myself in that catagory.



Do you believe that the signs that Jesus spoke of point to YOU as a believer?


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> The highlighted being from Mark, I assume you are also asking about snake handling and drinking poison, correct?
> Or am misunderstanding?



You are correct.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 2, 2012)

I believe the Great Commission was directed at all believers, yes.

As I'm sure you know, there is great debate as to whether the last part of Mark was actually part of the original manuscript.  Since it has a long history of acceptance, most versions include it but in brackets.

That said, there is nothing in that passage that commands anybody to pick up snakes or drink poison.  It simply promises protection if that occurs.

What would you think if it said something like "They will jump into a lion's den and come out the next day without a scratch." or "They will walk into a furnace and come out without even their clothes being singed."?  Would something like that seem odd to you if it were included in that section of Mark?

I think you know where I'm going with this.  Picking up a snake and drinking poison is child's play compared to what Daniel and the those three boys did.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 2, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> You are correct.



So this thread is just a roundabout way of asking us why we don't handle snakes and drink poison?


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## Huntinfool (Feb 2, 2012)

I once picked up a small black snake (won't do it again!) and I drink beer....do I qualify?


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> I believe the Great Commission was directed at all believers, yes.
> 
> That said, there is nothing in that passage that commands anybody to pick up snakes or drink poison.  It simply promises protection if that occurs.



No.  It very clearly describes the characteristics of the ones who believe (the saved ones).  It doesn't say that if one who believes were to be in one of these scenerios you might see something like this happen.  It says that this WILL happen.  These are the signs to identify them. "And these signs will follow those who believe".


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> So this thread is just a roundabout way of asking us why we don't handle snakes and drink poison?



I'm not asking why you don't handle snakes.  I'm pointing out that according to scripture, the fact that someone does not do ALL those things (signs), is proof that they are not believers.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 2, 2012)

> No. It very clearly describes the characteristics of the ones who believe (the saved ones). It doesn't say that if one who believes were to be in one of these scenerios you might see something like this happen. It says that this WILL happen. These are the signs to identify them. "And these signs will follow those who believe".



I'm sorry.  You're wrong.



> they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
> (Mark 16:18 ESV)



Note the word "if" in there.  What do you say about what I mentioned about Daniel and the three boys that didn't burn?  If you can buy those two accounts, why in the world would you wonder if what's listed in that passage is possible with Christ?

It is a list of miraculous signs that are possible through the power of Christ.  I've seen many things already in my short life.  Several of the things on this list, I've seen personally.  I have no doubt that the rest are possible and more.  But there is no way to read that passage and see that it specifically requires that each and every believer perform each of them to be qualified as "saved".  

That idea goes against the very heart of the Gospel.  We are not saved by our works.  We are saved by faith alone and we are known by our fruit....not by the miracles we perform in the name of Jesus.


In any case, as I said, there is question as to whether that portion of the chapter is supposed to be there.  It is not part of many of the earliest known manuscripts.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 2, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I'm not asking why you don't handle snakes.  I'm pointing out that according to scripture, the fact that someone does not do ALL those things (signs), is proof that they are not believers.



The vast majority of Christendom believes the miraculous gifts mentioned in Mark 16 and elsewhere ended with the apostles.

As a believer, I have enough trouble with the commands that absolutely apply to me, like controlling my tongue.  When I master that, I might consider snake-handling and poison-drinking.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 2, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> I'm sorry.  You're wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The word "if" applies to drinking poison only.  I agree that it doesn't say that believers WILL drink poison.  But it does say that believers WILL do other things.

Regarding Daniel, I never wondered if anything is possible with Christ.  This isn't about what Christ can do.  This is about what believers are told to do by Christ.

Did Jesus tell His followers to cast out demons?


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## Ronnie T (Feb 2, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I'm not asking why you don't handle snakes.  I'm pointing out that according to scripture, the fact that someone does not do ALL those things (signs), is proof that they are not believers.



Like many other nay-sayers of today, you're overstating what these verses say.  No one was ever commanded to do those things.  You've misused the scripture inappropriately.

No place in the Bible (including this scripture) does anyone ever say that doing those things will be the method for determining whether one is a disciple of Christ.

This scripture might interest you.

Acts 19:6
 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
 *It was the laying on of the apostles hand that imparted most of the gifts.


1Cor 12: 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Only a  'er would take one verse of scripture and attempt to establish a modern doctrinal issue with it.

*Let me ask you:  
1.  Do you handle poisonous snakes to prove your salvation??
2.  Do you consider yourself to be a disciple of Christ?


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## Huntinfool (Feb 2, 2012)

> Did Jesus tell His followers to cast out demons?



Yes...

Are you under the impression that, if one hasn't cast out a demon, then they are not saved?

See my earlier comments on works and salvation.  You're barking up the wrong tree.  The way you're reading that does not line up with the rest of scripture and that is the litmus test.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 3, 2012)

lol.

To the original question, I'm a disciple of Christ.


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## thedeacon (Feb 3, 2012)

Yes, it was meant to all believers.

I consider myself one of the "YE"


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## HawgJawl (Feb 4, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> The vast majority of Christendom believes the miraculous gifts mentioned in Mark 16 and elsewhere ended with the apostles.
> 
> As a believer, I have enough trouble with the commands that absolutely apply to me, like controlling my tongue.  When I master that, I might consider snake-handling and poison-drinking.



So then your answer is (B); it was only directed at the disciples?  If it was telling someone to go out and perform those miracles, and the disciples were the last people to have the ability to do those miracles, then it must not apply to anyone after them.

If it was only directed at the disciples, do you believe that Jesus was expecting the disciples to be able to personally visit every place on earth in their lifetime?


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## HawgJawl (Feb 4, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Like many other nay-sayers of today, you're overstating what these verses say.  No one was ever commanded to do those things.  You've misused the scripture inappropriately.
> 
> No place in the Bible (including this scripture) does anyone ever say that doing those things will be the method for determining whether one is a disciple of Christ.
> 
> ...



1.  I do not handle poisonous snakes to prove my salvation.  I didn't say that it was commanded or that it should be done to prove your salvation.  Jesus said that it is one of the signs of a believer.

2.  I do not consider myself or any other person that I know of currently on earth to meet the criteria set forth by Jesus to be a "believer".  Jesus commanded His believers to leave all their belongings behind and go out into all the world casting out demons, healing the sick, and performing other miracles.  I don't personally know of anyone currently on earth who meets that criteria.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> If it was telling someone to go out and perform those miracles ...



That's not what He told them.  He told them in Mark 16 the same thing He told them in Matthew 28:  to preach the gospel and make disciples of all nations.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> I don't personally know of anyone currently on earth who meets that criteria.



Then "let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we shall die."


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## HawgJawl (Feb 4, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Yes...
> 
> Are you under the impression that, if one hasn't cast out a demon, then they are not saved?
> 
> See my earlier comments on works and salvation.  You're barking up the wrong tree.  The way you're reading that does not line up with the rest of scripture and that is the litmus test.



Jesus is clear when He sets standards.  His followers are not so clear when they write scriptures trying to justify their inability to meet the standards set by Jesus.  Jesus is the teacher who establishes the standards such as "Do not sin".  His followers (students), including His disciples, lower those standards by telling us that everyone sins so just try not to sin and then ask for forgiveness whenever we do sin.  Look at all the scriptures written by followers (students), but don't think that they override the standards set by the One who made the standards.  If Jesus says one thing clearly, and Paul says something similar but more vague, there should be no question about which one has the most authority.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 4, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> That's not what He told them.  He told them in Mark 16 the same thing He told them in Matthew 28:  to preach the gospel and make disciples of all nations.



Did Jesus tell His followers to cast out demons and heal the sick and perform other miracles?


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## centerpin fan (Feb 4, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Did Jesus tell His followers to cast out demons and heal the sick and perform other miracles?



Not in Mark 16.  You might be thinking about another passage.


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## hummerpoo (Feb 4, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> 1.  I do not handle poisonous snakes to prove my salvation.  I didn't say that it was commanded or that it should be done to prove your salvation.  Jesus said that it is one of the signs of a believer.
> 
> 2.  I do not consider myself or any other person that I know of currently on earth to meet the criteria set forth by Jesus to be a "believer".  Jesus commanded His believers to leave all their belongings behind and go out into all the world casting out demons, healing the sick, and performing other miracles.  I don't personally know of anyone currently on earth who meets that criteria.



Where?
Not in Mat. 10.


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## Israel (Feb 4, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Jesus is clear when He sets standards.  His followers are not so clear when they write scriptures trying to justify their inability to meet the standards set by Jesus.  Jesus is the teacher who establishes the standards such as "Do not sin".  His followers (students), including His disciples, lower those standards by telling us that everyone sins so just try not to sin and then ask for forgiveness whenever we do sin.  Look at all the scriptures written by followers (students), but don't think that they override the standards set by the One who made the standards.  If Jesus says one thing clearly, and Paul says something similar but more vague, there should be no question about which one has the most authority.


I love the *Red* words in the book, but I realize the same ones (disciples) that were trusted to record them faithfully and accurately were also given to write the black words. If the black words can't be trusted, neither can the red. 
And I don't believe the truth because it's in the bible, I believe the bible because the Lord who existed long before anything was written, has shown me it's true.


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## hummerpoo (Feb 4, 2012)

Israel said:


> I love the *Red* words in the book, but I realize the same ones (disciples) that were trusted to record them faithfully and accurately were also given to write the black words. If the black words can't be trusted, neither can the red.
> And I don't believe the truth because it's in the bible, I believe the bible because the Lord who existed long before anything was written, has shown me it's true.



I'm with ya, brother.
Brother Harris certainly has his reasons, doesn't he?


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## hummerpoo (Feb 5, 2012)

Israel said:


> NEW AVATAR



WOW!!! Is God Great, or what!!!


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## HawgJawl (Feb 5, 2012)

Mark 16: 15-18 
And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be -I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN-ed. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

What exactly do you think Jesus meant when He said "these signs shall follow them"?

Matthew 10:1
And when He had called unto Him His twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all  manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Mark 3:14-15
And He ordained twelve, that they should be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach, And to have power to heal sickness, and to cast out devils.

After Jesus ascended into heaven, the disciples cast out evil spirits and healed sickness.  Examples can be found in the book of Acts, such as Acts 5:16,   and  16:18,   and  19:12.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 5, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> but he that believeth not shall be -I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN--I LIKE BIG HAIRY MEN-ed.




I'm not sure if it's me or Jesus who likes big hairy men, because Jesus said those words.  I think Jesus needs to stop cussing and try to be more Christ-like.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 5, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> What exactly do you think Jesus meant when He said "these signs shall follow them"?



I think He meant "these signs shall follow them".  That is not a command for believers, though.  It is a sign.  The only command for believers in that passage is "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."


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## HawgJawl (Feb 5, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> I think He meant "these signs shall follow them".  That is not a command for believers, though.  It is a sign.  The only command for believers in that passage is "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."




Again, what does that mean; "These signs shall follow them"?

Is that a description of believers?

Do you believe that you can find in scripture certain characteristics that describe a "REAL" Christian?  I'm not talking about how someone is saved, I'm talking about what you should be able to observe in the life of someone who claims to be a Christian.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 5, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Again, what does that mean; "These signs shall follow them"?



Miraculous gifts such as tongues, etc. were used in evangelism.  They confirmed to the unbelievers that the messengers were from God.  As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:22:

"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers;" 




HawgJawl said:


> Do you believe that you can find in scripture certain characteristics that describe a "REAL" Christian?



How about Galatians 5:22-23?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."


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## Ronnie T (Feb 5, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Again, what does that mean; "These signs shall follow them"?
> 
> Is that a description of believers?
> 
> Do you believe that you can find in scripture certain characteristics that describe a "REAL" Christian?  I'm not talking about how someone is saved, I'm talking about what you should be able to observe in the life of someone who claims to be a Christian.



As we've said, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Jesus never commanded anyone to speak in a foreign, unknown language.

In Acts 2 was the very first time anyone talked in such a language.  But even then God did not command it.  The apostles spoke, and it just happened.

And when they did speak in other languages, it was not to "prove" anything.  It was to help in spreading the Gospel.

No commandment.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 5, 2012)

I've heard many times on this forum, the argument made that "REAL" Christians do .....

And if someone who claims to be a Christian does certain things or does not do certain things then they are probably not "REAL" Christians.

One example that comes to mind is the thread about going to church, and how wanting to go to church and fellowship with other Christians is an expected characteristic of a "REAL" Christian.  There are other examples that many of you have expressed on this forum regarding the characteristics of "REAL" Christians or characteristics that make you question if someone was a "REAL" Christian.

It's not about a commandment to do something in order to be saved, it's a characteristic of a true believer.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 6, 2012)

You may have "heard" that in that thread....but it was not the theme of what 99.9% of us postes in there.

That's what you wanted to read in that thread...just like that's what you want to read in this passage.  None of us will convince you otherwise, because you've already decided exactly what this says.  Not sure what the point of this thread is honestly.

There are number of followers of Christ who have responded unanimously that you're interpretation of the passage is off.  There is only one (that I can tell) person in this thread who is not a follower of Christ and, somehow, his interpretation is supposed to be the accurate one?


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## HawgJawl (Feb 6, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> The Great Commission
> 
> Mark 16:15-18
> And He said unto them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.  And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."



Who specifically do you think Jesus was refering to when He said "those who believe"?

(A)  Just the disciples.

(B)  Future believers.

(C)  Whatever fits my current argument.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't have an answer to your question. There are some Christians who do handle serpents and drink poison although not arsenic. I use to think they were crazy but now i admire their faith. I'm sure they lay hands on the sick. Do they always recover?
Isn't the "Great Commission" in Matthews? If it was added later as some think, couldn't the Mark version have been added later?


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## Huntinfool (Feb 7, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> Who specifically do you think Jesus was refering to when He said "those who believe"?
> 
> (A)  Just the disciples.
> 
> ...




If, indeed, that was part of the original document (which we aren't sure of), then A & B.    

Ironically....your answer is C. 


If I made the statement, "The American people fought bravely in the Gulf War and made an everlasting impact on the future of the middle east."....

....would you think I was making the statement that every single American citizen actually flew over to Iraq and personally picked up a rifle and fought for their country?

Jesus was speaking of believers in broad terms, referring to acts that would be possible for believers with the power of the HS.  He was not making a checklist for every believer as an indicator of salvation or level of belief.  He was establishing the fact that, through him, all things (even these) are possible.

Why is that so difficult to grasp?  Because your answer is "C".


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## formula1 (Feb 7, 2012)

*Re:*

What are signs for?

Signs follow the message of believers who are obedient to the great commission and that is what they are for, to give validity to the gospel message as it is preached and thereby bring folks to saving faith in Christ. There are many on here that will attest to the experience of signs that lead them to trust Christ in faith.   I will attest that all of these signs listed in Mark I have personally seen or experienced, yet perhaps not in the literal rigid interpretation you view it. One has to remember that words are just words unless the Spirit gives them life.

All I can say is trust in Jesus, lay down yourself, give your life to Him, and then you shall know the Truth and it will free you to live through Him. That order is important! God Bless!

Oh, the answer is  A and B.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 7, 2012)

formula1 said:


> What are signs for?
> 
> Signs follow the message of believers who are obedient to the great commission and that is what they are for, to give validity to the gospel message as it is preached and thereby bring folks to saving faith in Christ. There are many on here that will attest to the experience of signs that lead them to trust Christ in faith.   I will attest that all of these signs listed in Mark I have personally seen or experienced, yet perhaps not in the literal rigid interpretation you view it. One has to remember that words are just words unless the Spirit gives them life.
> 
> ...



Amen!!

Does it make sense to anyone that I speak in different tongues than I used to speak in? That I talk differently to other people, that I influence other people in another tongue than I used to speak? Does it make sense that I used to say here take another shot or another toke, and now I say, get you some Jesus?

I do think original tongues were to speak in the native language of the listeners, so they could hear? Do we do that today?...do missionaries learn the tongue of the natives they preach the gospel to? I believe they do. Does God assist them in their endeavor to preach the gospel in other languages than their own, ie english.....yes I believe He does. So what's the difference? God is not only an ancient God. He is the present God....always in the present, always in the past and always in the future.

JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH.......Ezekiel 48:35 
meaning "The Lord who is present" 

EL-OLAM...............Isaiah 40:28-31 
meaning "The everlasting God"


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## HawgJawl (Feb 7, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> If, indeed, that was part of the original document (which we aren't sure of), then A & B.





formula1 said:


> Oh, the answer is  A and B.



Since the answer is A and B, we should have examples of both (A) and (B).  The disciples (A) did in deed cast out demons.  There were only twelve disciples so they obviously could only do so much.  There have been millions of subsequent believers (B) so we should have at least several hundred thousand examples of subsequent believers (B) casting out evil spirits.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 7, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> If I made the statement, "The American people fought bravely in the Gulf War and made an everlasting impact on the future of the middle east."....
> 
> ....would you think I was making the statement that every single American citizen actually flew over to Iraq and personally picked up a rifle and fought for their country?



No.  I would not think that statement meant every single American.  I would however think that it meant some Americans actually did.  Just as I would think that the statement regarding "future believers" casting out devils would mean that some future believers actually would.


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## formula1 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re:*



HawgJawl said:


> Since the answer is A and B, we should have examples of both (A) and (B).  The disciples (A) did in deed cast out demons.  There were only twelve disciples so they obviously could only do so much.  There have been millions of subsequent believers (B) so we should have at least several hundred thousand examples of subsequent believers (B) casting out evil spirits.



The scripture says:

Matthew 12
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

So, why do you care, since you are told to do otherwise?


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## Huntinfool (Feb 8, 2012)

> so we should have at least several hundred thousand examples of subsequent believers (B) casting out evil spirits.





> No. I would not think that statement meant every single American. I would however think that it meant some Americans actually did. Just as I would think that the statement regarding "future believers" casting out devils would mean that some future believers actually would.



So I suppose you wouldn't be surprised to know that I know personally of several demon possessed persons being released in the name of Jesus?

One was a teenager that was attending a campmeeting that my dad was preaching at. Quite literally possessed...and quite literally released when released in the name of Jesus.

The second was actually a preacher last summer at Indian Springs campmeeting who had been suffering what he calls a "demon oppression".  Not physically possessed, but oppressed and followed by at all times.  When the man he was talking to actually addressed the demon and told him he had no power or place in the name of Christ, the man literally began choking and was thrown to the ground.  No one touched him.  But he was stopped by the director of the grounds on the way back to his cabin and was asked if he'd been in a fight.  He had two black eyes.  His wife asked the same question when he got back.  It was just the two of them in the room.  This was not a Benny Hinn moment.  Just a trained counselor and this pastor.

I can get you the audio of the account of the second if you need to hear it.


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## JB0704 (Feb 8, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> The second was actually a preacher last summer at Indian Springs campmeeting who had been suffering what he calls a "demon oppression".  Not physically possessed, but oppressed and followed by at all times.  When the man he was talking to actually addressed the demon and told him he had no power or place in the name of Christ, the man literally began choking and was thrown to the ground.  No one touched him.  But he was stopped by the director of the grounds on the way back to his cabin and was asked if he'd been in a fight.  He had two black eyes.  His wife asked the same question when he got back.  It was just the two of them in the room.  This was not a Benny Hinn moment.  Just a trained counselor and this pastor.



The spiritual stuff is something I know very little about, have too many opinions on, and would love to learn more facts.  Have you guys ever done a thread discussing the things you know and have seen?


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## StriperAddict (Feb 8, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> So I suppose you wouldn't be surprised to know that I know personally of several demon possessed persons being released in the name of Jesus?
> 
> One was a teenager that was attending a campmeeting that my dad was preaching at. Quite literally possessed...and quite literally released when released in the name of Jesus.
> 
> ...


 
Amen, you are indeed one of the MANY believers who have a testimony of God's delivering power!  

I think folks are expecting to see this reported on CNN >da Debil!< ... highly unlikely to have a faith witness from anti-God main stream media! 



formula1 said:


> The scripture says:
> 
> Matthew 12
> 38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
> ...


 
Also well said.
The attitude of the heart that HAS to have physicial/visual validation of the Lord is one far from peace.


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## stringmusic (Feb 8, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> The spiritual stuff is something I know very little about, have too many opinions on, and would love to learn more facts.  Have you guys ever done a thread discussing the things you know and have seen?



Don't think I remember a thread about that particular subject, that would be a wild thread!!


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## HawgJawl (Feb 8, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> So I suppose you wouldn't be surprised to know that I know personally of several demon possessed persons being released in the name of Jesus?
> 
> One was a teenager that was attending a campmeeting that my dad was preaching at. Quite literally possessed...and quite literally released when released in the name of Jesus.
> 
> ...



Now THATS what I'm talking about!  
Thank you.

I believe that any person who can cast out a demon is someone who has a close relationship with God and the act serves as a tremendous motivator to non-believers.  

I believe that scripture shows that Jesus had the same view on the subject.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 8, 2012)

formula1 said:


> The scripture says:
> 
> Matthew 12
> 38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
> ...



You might want to read 1 Kings 18.

I'm not saying that God SHOULD prove His power through some type of public demonstration.  I'm just saying that if you believe 1 Kings 18, then its difficult to say that God would NOT do that.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 8, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Amen, you are indeed one of the MANY believers who have a testimony of God's delivering power!
> 
> I think folks are expecting to see this reported on CNN >da Debil!< ... highly unlikely to have a faith witness from anti-God main stream media!
> 
> ...



Jesus and the disciples performed these miracles out in the world in front of non-believers, as opposed to a Christian retreat.


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## formula1 (Feb 8, 2012)

HawgJawl said:


> You might want to read 1 Kings 18.
> 
> I'm not saying that God SHOULD prove His power through some type of public demonstration.  I'm just saying that if you believe 1 Kings 18, then its difficult to say that God would NOT do that.



Read 1 Kings 18 many times, it's a public display of God's power.  And never said it did not occur today (in fact it does all the time), only that it is not the foundation of my faith in Christ, nor should it be yours!


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## Huntinfool (Feb 8, 2012)

> Jesus and the disciples performed these miracles out in the world in front of non-believers, as opposed to a Christian retreat.



So now we're in the details of deciding not only WHO should be doing it, but WHEN and WHERE?

Boy, you are really getting a lot out of that passage my man.  It just ain't there brother.  I won't belabor this thread anymore.  You are attempting to pull something out of there that will support the agenda you want to support.  That's fine.  If you want to use that passage to prove that Christ isn't real or powerful as evidenced by the lack of miracles performed by his followers, you can do that.

I don't think you're winning any supporters via this particular argument though.


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## HawgJawl (Feb 8, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> You are attempting to pull something out of there that will support the agenda you want to support.  That's fine.  If you want to use that passage to prove that Christ isn't real or powerful as evidenced by the lack of miracles performed by his followers, you can do that.



I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to prove Christ isn't real or powerful.  That is not the issue here.  I believe that Jesus was able to cast out evil spirits.  I believe that the disciples were able to cast out evil spirits when they had enough faith and were close enough to God.  I believe that any Christian who has enough faith and is close enough to God can cast out evil spirits.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 8, 2012)

What is an evil spirit? Where do they come from? Can Christians get them?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What is an evil spirit?*a demon* Where do they come from?*from satan's legion* Can Christians get them?*yes*



rebuke them in the name of Jesus...they cringe and recoil at that name.....ever notice demon filled people who absolutely detest Jesus and Christianity?


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