# building a muzzleloader from a kit.....



## Throwback (Aug 15, 2006)

Who has done it and how hard was it? 

Should one buy a kit or go "one piece at a time"?

mainly looking at a kentucky or southern rifle, but a hawken is a possibility. 

Thanks, 

T


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## Darkhorse (Aug 15, 2006)

There are several types of kits on the market. One is the kit from places like Lyman and CVA or Cabelas even. The good side of these kits is they go together real easy. Holes are drilled most of the inletting is done. Not really much of a challenge but a good place to start. I'd recommend the Lyman GPR. The bad thing is when you are finished all you have is a Cabelas mountain rifle or something to that effect. It will still have the coil spring lock and the italian or spanish barrel.
The other type kit, which is really a component set is a horse of a different color. You buy these from Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers, Wayne Dunlap and others. These are designed after a rifle from a certain school of gunbuilding. Some of these patterns were taken right from an original rifle. The Lancasters, Dickert, Southern Mountain are just some of the patterns available to you.
The stocks are preinlet and preshaped so you can get the parts in proper position with a lot of work and care and if your lucky it will end up looking proper. You get a top of the line lock. A top of the line barrel. Usually your choice of brass or steel mounts.
No holes are drilled for you. You must do an awful lot of close, critical inletting on all the parts then drill and tap holes. There is an excess of wood on the stocks and a lot of shaping with rasps, gouges, files and sandpaper must be done.
There are many ways to ruin a rifle like this.
But when you get done you will have a rifle that actually looks like one carried in 1770.
The GPR type kit can be built in a long weekend.
The component set may take you 200 hours plus.
There is a big difference between the two and end product shows it.
You can also buy your parts one at a time and hope it looks right when your done. But in the component set all the parts are chosen because they are correct for the rifle you are attempting to build.
I have built two from the component sets. Two Isacc Haines, one in .54 and one in .40 I wanted two hunting rifles that felt as much alike as possible.
Be warned its habit forming. I am just finishing up the .40 and I'm already planning what I want to build next time.


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## Flintrock (Aug 15, 2006)

Throwback said:
			
		

> Who has done it and how hard was it?
> 
> Should one buy a kit or go "one piece at a time"?
> 
> ...


.
Ibid...what Darkhoarse said.
.
.
I put together two "kits" one was in 1979..the other was in 1982. Takes about a day to make the parts fit/sand/finsh to your liking.When I was done, The looked like kit guns.. The quality just in not there.
,
IF you want a quality/custom made rifle. I can put you in contact with a friend of mine that ownes his frontier shop.I saw him on one of the blackpowder tv shows last week.   He  makes custom kits and rifes for a living...Quality lock,stock,barrel...He custom makes you a kit rifle to your liking...Everything fits and holes drilled.The only thing you will need to do is the final sanding and stain..cost about $1100 . If you were to get a costom made one completed/stained/ready to go, from any quality gun maker, you will be looking a 2000 to start.
When my sons are old enough to get a full size rifle,this is the way ill be going.
Unlike a kit gun.The value of a custom made rifle will  hold its value
Buy a kit for 300 today and it will be worth 100 next year. get a custom rifle  and it will be worth atleast what ypu paind for it  or more next year..( if it is truly a nice rifle ).
.
ps..I like the David Wright picture


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## Throwback (Aug 16, 2006)

I may wait till I can afford a custom gun. 

It would be nice to have a good heirloom. 

T


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## 7Mag Hunter (Aug 16, 2006)

I built a CVA Hawken kit about 20 years ago...Got 2 barrels
for it..One 50 and 54 cal...
Took the barrels to gunsmith and had them blued for 
appearance and long term rust prevention....
Take yout time in fitting the metal work and polishing the
brass pieces for best fit and appearance...
After you get everything "fitted and sanded" used oil
based finish on the stock..Think it was called Tru (sp) oil..
Goes on clear, and after it dries you buff it with fine steel
wool...Put about 20-25 coats on mine till I got the color
I wanted....It darkens slightly with each coat...
Finished gun has appearance and long term durability of
"factory" gun as flued finish and sealed stock finish
is waterproof and very durable....Stock looks like it was
stained Walnut...
It is not hard or expensive to do....Just time consuming
to fit metal and finish stock, as it takes (8-10 hrs) drying
time between coats of stock finish...


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## CK'n (Aug 16, 2006)

*Hang in there Throwback*

A few kits can be improved on. I tried 2 just so I would have an idea in what is involved. I build custom rifles for a living, so usually stuck my nose in the air when someone mumbles kits. Well, all that got me was a bloody nose from the altitude (attitude?). These are not the higher end types that Flintlock was talking about. If you haven't put one together before, you might want to try this. Then, when you are bitten and know about and want better, well - Flintlock sounds like he found something. You can't get away from stamped look on most of the metal. But they can be worked over like the two examples I will try to post. The percussion is straight out of the box. I used my own normal finish and added a little checkering to it. The flintlock is the identical to the percussion (except for the fire starter) and everything metal can just about be swapped/exchanged. The flintlock has an aftermarket inletted stock made from Maple (wow, didn't even get the shakes writing that...) that needed very little trimming. That had a fancy finish, scorched some potassium permanganate, then many coats of oil. Finished with the same checkering pattern. I was surprised at how well they came out. Nothing like one of my hand built critters, but then that was not the point. Try one, if nothing else, you will have something to shoot and get use to.







A custom ML cost? I gotta take exception to what Flintlock said for once. I can't imagine one starting below $3500. It would be so plain Jane, I seriously doubt it would be worth it. Another $1500 to $2000 would be more like it. Then there is a fellow in Tennessee that builds some of the best I have ever seen.  Charged $120,000 (not a typo) and took him 3 years to make. That is something I can dream of I guess.

Best of luck!
Chris

PS: of course (shameless plug) if I can help any, please let me know.


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## CK'n (Aug 16, 2006)

*Help, over size picture*

I hope someone can help. How do you post a photobucket pic that won't take up a screen and a half?

Thanks,
Chris


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## Nicodemus (Aug 16, 2006)

CKn, I REALLY like the finish on that the stock of that flintlock!


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## CAL (Aug 16, 2006)

Yep,that is a beautiful finish Nick.If I bought one of his I would have to mortgage the farm.


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## Nicodemus (Aug 16, 2006)

Cal, I could never afford one of those hundred thousand dollar guns, but if I could, I`d be scared to tote it in the woods! 
With the magic that you can do with wood, I bet you could make a Jim Dandy rifle from  scratch.


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## Flintrock (Aug 16, 2006)

CK'n said:
			
		

> A custom ML cost? I gotta take exception to what Flintlock said for once. I can't imagine one starting below $3500. It would be so plain Jane, I seriously doubt it would be worth it. Another $1500 to $2000 would be more like it. Then there is a fellow in Tennessee that builds some of the best I have ever seen.  Charged $120,000 (not a typo) and took him 3 years to make. That is something I can dream of I guess.
> 
> Best of luck!
> Chris
> ...


.
Yes sir.
The 2k price I mentioned is definitely for a plain jane.No extras.
.
Who was the rifle maker from Tennessee ? was it Bartlett ??


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## Darkhorse (Aug 16, 2006)

I think Flintrock was speaking of Tip Curtis who owns The Frontier Shop in (i believe) Cross Plains Tennessee.
Tip makes these guns in the white and then sells them for around $1100. sometimes even $900. depending on how many he has and the mood he is in.
He uses Siler locks, colrain barrels, and fancy maple of 5 different grades.
If you buy one of these guns and put a month or so into finishing the wood and metal you will have a custom rifle at a bargain price.
If you buy the components from Tip and have someone else build it for you will spend at least $2000 to $2500 to have them finish it for you. And depending on what options you want and the name of the builder it could cost you a lot more than that.
My next build will most likely come from Tip Curtis, he has more options for lefthanders and some nice wood.


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## Flintrock (Aug 16, 2006)

Darkhoarse
You are correct. He is very knowledgeable about the muzzle loading business.When I Get stuff from him,I know it will be quality.He is one of us !


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## bam_bam (Aug 17, 2006)

there is a program i downloaded for free it called PIXresizer. go to the outdoor/photography page there is a sticky there with a link to it. it will resize your pictures to a 450x600 so it will be smaller


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## CK'n (Aug 17, 2006)

*Thanks Bam Bam,*

That worked.  I also figured out the feature to re-edit messages. You can teach and old dog new tricks!

Thanks again,
Chris


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