# Scientist to be punished for gene editing



## Spotlite (Jan 25, 2019)

On one hand, I could see the benefits of ensuring healthy babies. On the other, if you believe in creation, I can see where you’re interfering with “by design”, and if you believe in evolution, I can see where you’re interfering with “adapting for survival”.



https://www.chemistryworld.com/news...n-of-first-gene-edited-humans/3010026.article


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jan 25, 2019)

Thanks for sharing?


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

Mr Bya Lungshot said:


> Thanks for sharing?


Lol ok. 

Given the direction of our anything goes society, we can expect this to become the norm. I personally think it’s an area that we need to let nature handle.


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jan 26, 2019)

I had no point to make on this one. It’s not something I was expecting and glad you posted it.

I’d much rather someone that smart would focus on cures rather than morphs. He obviously is in it to be the first rather than finding a cure.
Yet I don’t even know what he did so no comments.


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jan 26, 2019)

Or how bout two wrongs don’t make a right.
I’d rather him find the cure and right the wrong first.


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

Mr Bya Lungshot said:


> I had no point to make on this one. It’s not something I was expecting and glad you posted it.
> 
> I’d much rather someone that smart would focus on cures rather than morphs. He obviously is in it to be the first rather than finding a cure.
> Yet I don’t even know what he did so no comments.


In his case, he edited the genes to fight / prevent HIV. 

He neglected and forged so you’re correct, looks like he was wanting to be the first. 

I think I’d be ok with prevention / cure type stuff.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 26, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> Lol ok.
> 
> Given the direction of our anything goes society, we can expect this to become the norm. I personally think it’s an area that we need to let nature handle.



Do you mean God or nature? Someone may be able to play nature, but no human will ever be able to play God.

Not until we see Jesus as he is and become like him.


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Jan 26, 2019)

He may have caused something not to mention twins.


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Do you mean God or nature? Someone may be able to play nature, but no human will ever be able to play God.
> 
> Not until we see Jesus as he is and become like him.


Without debating creation / evolution..... the natural process of either is what I’m referring to as “nature”


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## WaltL1 (Jan 26, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> In his case, he edited the genes to fight / prevent HIV.
> 
> He neglected and forged so you’re correct, looks like he was wanting to be the first.
> 
> I think I’d be ok with prevention / cure type stuff.


To me, its definitely a slippery slope.
On one hand, he could be coming up with something that saves millions of lives.
On the other hand, I don't trust man to leave it at that.

Hitler envisioned a master race. Physically/mentally.
In a way, is this an "innocent" step in that direction?


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> To me, its definitely a slippery slope.
> On one hand, he could be coming up with something that saves millions of lives.
> On the other hand, I don't trust man to leave it at that.
> 
> ...


That’s where I’m at. We may not want or need to open that door.


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> To me, its definitely a slippery slope.
> On one hand, he could be coming up with something that saves millions of lives.
> On the other hand, I don't trust man to leave it at that.
> 
> ...


Or has god given him the mind and capability to further gods work?


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Or has god given him the mind and capability to further gods work?


I could envision man having the capabilities to build on......I mean the Bible does say that knowledge would increase. But I can see Walt’s point, it could easily be abused.

Our luck, they’d edit them all to vote democrat


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## bullethead (Jan 26, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> I could envision man having the capabilities to build on......I mean the Bible does say that knowledge would increase. But I can see Walt’s point, it could easily be abused.
> 
> Our luck, they’d edit them all to vote democrat


Many of the most popular and widely used discoveries are from trying to create one intended thing and resulting in another unintended. But that included both the good and the bad.

And truthfully,  I do not doubt for one second that since the WWII days of those awful human experiments that Governments and Private Companies have not continued and expounded upon them. They just don't like it when a scientist breaks ranks and talks about it.


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## Spotlite (Jan 26, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Many of the most popular and widely used discoveries are from trying to create one intended thing and resulting in another unintended. But that included both the good and the bad.
> 
> And truthfully,  I do not doubt for one second that since the WWII days of those awful human experiments that Governments and Private Companies have not continued and expounded upon them. They just don't like it when a scientist breaks ranks and talks about it.


Yea I think it’d be almost scary to find out what our govt really has their hands in.


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## 660griz (Jan 28, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> On one hand, I could see the benefits of ensuring healthy babies. On the other, if you believe in creation, I can see where you’re interfering with “by design”, and if you believe in evolution, I can see where you’re interfering with “adapting for survival”.


We would probably have half the world population we do now if it weren't for man "interfering in God's plan or interfering with the laws of nature.


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## Spotlite (Jan 28, 2019)

660griz said:


> We would probably have half the world population we do now if it weren't for man "interfering in God's plan or interfering with the laws of nature.


I would agree. Hadnt thought about that part of it, but you’re correct.


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## ambush80 (Jan 28, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> I would agree. Hadnt thought about that part of it, but you’re correct.



Consider, though, that as you increase the number of people you also increase the likelihood of a genius appearing, one that might figure out how to colonize other planets.


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## bullethead (Jan 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Consider, though, that as you increase the number of people you also increase the likelihood of a genius appearing, one that might figure out how to colonize other planets.


And he/she can figure out what to do with the burdens on the rest of society.


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## ambush80 (Jan 28, 2019)

bullethead said:


> And he/she can figure out what to do with the burdens on the rest of society.



A real genius might figure out how to make them useful and give them dignity.


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## bullethead (Jan 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> A real genius might figure out how to make them useful and give them dignity.


That would definitely take gene altering.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> A real genius might figure out how to make them useful and give them dignity.


Assuming a genius would consider that a worthy pursuit.
A genius might also consider it a worthy pursuit to exterminate them cleanly and efficiently.


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## ambush80 (Jan 28, 2019)

bullethead said:


> That would definitely take gene altering.



Not out of the question.  CRISPR.  There's an interesting thread on the Sam Harris forum where someone suggests helping out races that are lower in IQ by the use of gene modification.  You can imagine the blow back a suggestion like that elicits.  It's an interesting discussion.  

https://forum.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/69852/

Equally interesting and related to the above thread is this:

https://forum.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/69814/


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## ambush80 (Jan 28, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Assuming a genius would consider that a worthy pursuit.
> A genius might also consider it a worthy pursuit to exterminate them cleanly and efficiently.



I'd be open to hear that argument.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I'd be open to hear that argument.


I have to start with an assumption -
Im assuming there has always been geniuses relative to the knowledge base of the time.
Man has always divided themselves up into "classes".
I would bet on that continuing for a long, long time.


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## ambush80 (Feb 3, 2019)

I'm reading this book called _DNA Is Not Destiny.  _The author brings up the case of Harry Eastlack.  He had a condition called FOP and it caused his bones to grow out of control.  They have identified the neuclotide on his DNA that caused his condition.  It was on codon 206 located on chromosome 2.  "His horrible disease was caused by a single typo on his 6-billion-letter genome. If his genome was written down on paper, it would be the length of about 800 Bibles, and this single letter in the wrong place-"



I first find it amazing that we understand the genome that well, knowing that there is more about it that we don't know and secondly that we can fix those kinds of problems soon.  I was discussing this with my Mom and and she said "Maybe it's better to just let Nature run it's course as part of God's plans".  My mother is a good thinker in most respects but it confounds me that she would come to a conclusion like that.


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## Rick Alexander (Feb 4, 2019)

I saw a show on tv recently where they are successful now in creating super horses for polo now using cloning.  Not pie in the sky - these are exact copies of champion horses on a grand scale.  Makes you think humans are already out there somewhere growing to maturity with this already


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## WaltL1 (Feb 4, 2019)

Rick Alexander said:


> I saw a show on tv recently where they are successful now in creating super horses for polo now using cloning.  Not pie in the sky - these are exact copies of champion horses on a grand scale.  Makes you think humans are already out there somewhere growing to maturity with this already


I think I saw that same show.
Lots of controversy about how "fair" that is as only a few breeders can afford to do the cloning and how it takes away from the spirit of the sport. No such thing as a legendary horse anymore as they will all be legendary and in fact legendary or dominant or 1 in a million etc will cease to exist.
Same path humans would be going down. All the words and concepts about being above or below average will become obsolete. Everybody can be Rembrandt or a Hawking or a …...


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## ambush80 (Feb 4, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I think I saw that same show.
> Lots of controversy about how "fair" that is as only a few breeders can afford to do the cloning and how it takes away from the spirit of the sport. No such thing as a legendary horse anymore as they will all be legendary and in fact legendary or dominant or 1 in a million etc will cease to exist.
> Same path humans would be going down. All the words and concepts about being above or below average will become obsolete. Everybody can be Rembrandt or a Hawking or a …...




Awesome!!!


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## WaltL1 (Feb 4, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Awesome!!!


I know this probably completely emotionally driven but my initial response is -
Not Awesome.
Sounds boring to me.
Seems like things like wonderment and awe or inspiring or amazed etc would become kind of obsolete things.


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## ambush80 (Feb 4, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I know this probably completely emotionally driven but my initial response is -
> Not Awesome.
> Sounds boring to me.
> Seems like things like wonderment and awe or inspiring or amazed etc would become kind of obsolete things.



I'm sure lots of new and unexpected issues will arise to keep things interesting.


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## Israel (Feb 5, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I think I saw that same show.
> Lots of controversy about how "fair" that is as only a few breeders can afford to do the cloning and how it takes away from the spirit of the sport. No such thing as a legendary horse anymore as they will all be legendary and in fact legendary or dominant or 1 in a million etc will cease to exist.
> Same path humans would be going down. All the words and concepts about being above or below average will become obsolete. Everybody can be Rembrandt or a Hawking or a …...



*Mark Zuckerberg: *Did you know that there are more people with genius IQ’s living in China than there are people of any kind living in the United States?
*Erica Albright:* That can’t possibly be true. What would account for that?
*Mark Zuckerberg: *Well, first of all a lot of people live in China. But here’s my question, how do you distinguish yourself from a population of people who all got sixteen hundred on their SAT’s?
*Erica Albright:* I didn’t know they take SAT’s in China.
*Mark Zuckerberg: *They don’t. I wasn’t talking about China anymore, I was talking about me.
*Erica Albright:* You got sixteen hundred?



> And he/she can figure out what to do with the burdens on the rest of society.



Burdens as in:
how do you distinguish yourself from a population of people who all got sixteen hundred on their SAT’s?

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.






Hint: You end up with "Facebook for Mar's Colonials."


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I'm sure lots of new and unexpected issues will arise to keep things interesting.


Sure but I like the idea of "individuality" I guess would be a word for it.
The guy/gal that cant do fractions but picks up a guitar and blows you away.
The mentally challenged guy/gal that picks up a paint brush and creates beautiful art.
The Downs Syndrome person that couldn't care less what race you are or how much money you make.
Things like that.
What would be interesting about Salvador Dali art if there were a million or ten million Salvador Dalis?
Just seems like the world would become a very "vanilla" place.


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## Israel (Feb 5, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Sure but I like the idea of "individuality" I guess would be a word for it.
> The guy/gal that cant do fractions but picks up a guitar and blows you away.
> The mentally challenged guy/gal that picks up a paint brush and creates beautiful art.
> The Downs Syndrome person that couldn't care less what race you are or how much money you make.
> ...



Sprinkles dude, sprinkles. It's all in the sprinkles.


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## ambush80 (Feb 5, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Sure but I like the idea of "individuality" I guess would be a word for it.
> The guy/gal that cant do fractions but picks up a guitar and blows you away.
> The mentally challenged guy/gal that picks up a paint brush and creates beautiful art.
> The Downs Syndrome person that couldn't care less what race you are or how much money you make.
> ...



People have a six billion letter genome. There will be differences unless they are all clones.  What's wrong with a million Dalis and a million Mozarts and a million Elon Musks?   I'm sure there will be problems but who better to solve them?   Take a bit of comfort in the FACT that every time something new came down the pike that MOST people were against it, that includes vaccines, nuclear energy, flight, and fire.  Recognize that unforseen problems always arose but that the net result was positive.  



Israel said:


> Sprinkles dude, sprinkles. It's all in the sprinkles.



It is all about the sprinkles.


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## ambush80 (Feb 5, 2019)

Israel said:


> *Mark Zuckerberg: *Did you know that there are more people with genius IQ’s living in China than there are people of any kind living in the United States?
> *Erica Albright:* That can’t possibly be true. What would account for that?
> *Mark Zuckerberg: *Well, first of all a lot of people live in China. But here’s my question, how do you distinguish yourself from a population of people who all got sixteen hundred on their SAT’s?
> *Erica Albright:* I didn’t know they take SAT’s in China.
> ...




There are parts of people like Zuckerberg that can be troubling. Maybe they can fix them, too.


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## Spotlite (Feb 5, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> People have a six billion letter genome. There will be differences unless they are all clones.  What's wrong with a million Dalis and a million Mozarts and a million Elon Musks?   I'm sure there will be problems but who better to solve them?   Take a bit of comfort in the FACT that every time something new came down the pike that MOST people were against it, that includes vaccines, nuclear energy, flight, and fire.  Recognize that unforseen problems always arose but that the net result was positive.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all about the sprinkles.


The unforeseen is always a fear to consider.

I think in this case, the unforeseen is where would the line to be drawn between prevention of a defect that causes one to be a midget, and just short people? And who decides what’s short?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> People have a six billion letter genome. There will be differences unless they are all clones.  What's wrong with a million Dalis and a million Mozarts and a million Elon Musks?   I'm sure there will be problems but who better to solve them?   Take a bit of comfort in the FACT that every time something new came down the pike that MOST people were against it, that includes vaccines, nuclear energy, flight, and fire.  Recognize that unforseen problems always arose but that the net result was positive.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all about the sprinkles.





> What's wrong with a million Dalis and a million Mozarts and a million Elon Musks?


Whats *wrong *with it? Nothing. I was giving my personal feelings on it.
Although you used Dali and Mozart and Musks because they are different/recognizable etc. If there were a million of them they would be just another name.
And I think we may be several combining points into one. I can certainly recognize the accomplishments that could be made if we were all geniuses. I think Im just pointing out that there will be a cost for that which strikes me as being individuality. 


> There will be differences unless they are all clones.


Sure. But 1 person preferring pepperoni and 1 person preferring sausage on their pizza is kind of boring differences.


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## bullethead (Feb 5, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> People have a six billion letter genome. There will be differences unless they are all clones.  What's wrong with a million Dalis and a million Mozarts and a million Elon Musks?   I'm sure there will be problems but who better to solve them?   Take a bit of comfort in the FACT that every time something new came down the pike that MOST people were against it, that includes vaccines, nuclear energy, flight, and fire.  Recognize that unforseen problems always arose but that the net result was positive.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all about the sprinkles.


How about cloning a psychopathic murderer into 1,000,000 to do the deeds that sane people wouldn't?
I am sure some Gov't would be interested. The intentions of the one doing the cloning are not always to benefit society. They are done to benefit themself.


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## ambush80 (Feb 5, 2019)

bullethead said:


> How about cloning a psychopathic murderer into 1,000,000 to do the deeds that sane people wouldn't?
> I am sure some Gov't would be interested. The intentions of the one doing the cloning are not always to benefit society. They are done to benefit themself.




The robots won't let us do that.


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## bullethead (Feb 5, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> The robots won't let us do that.


Touche', lolololol


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## Israel (Feb 6, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> There are parts of people like Zuckerberg that can be troubling. Maybe they can fix them, too.


Who knows if monkeying around with whatever parts those may be, he lost that honesty? (Assuming the movie hewed closely to the truth)

Facebook is easily sacrificed...but that?


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