# Thoughts on good all around bird dog



## Wiemers6909 (Jul 21, 2013)

I have been thinking of getting a bird dog that will be good in the field and in the water. I owned a Brittany as a family pet when I was growing up, great dog very smart but refused to listen no matter how much you worked with her. So I've read a lot of great things about standard poodles. Anybody know how they are about cross training? Also any good trainers around Athens ga?


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## Supercracker (Jul 21, 2013)

Have you considered a Drahthaar?
http://vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php


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## FFg (Jul 21, 2013)

Check out the North American  Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) their member breed, train and test dogs like you are talking about.  You should be able to locate some folks there that can assist.

Here is the GA state chapter's website:  http://www.midsouthnavhda.com/index.html


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## Joe Overby (Jul 21, 2013)

If you are serious about a Standard Poodle there is only one person IN THE COUNTRY I would consider buying from...Rich Louter @ Louter Creek Hunting Poodles here in Ga.  His dog Cooper is the most titled poodle in HISTORY. That said...Poodles take YEARS to mature, lack the drive that a brittany, gsp, labs, or even goldens have, and are HIGHLY expensive. Also, plan to wait several years for one from Rich...his waiting list is well over a year long...  And no, there are no good Poodle trainers anywhere near Athens.  If you wound up shelling out the several thousand for a well bred Poodle my advise to you would be to leave it with the man who obviously knows the breed for as long as he tells you is necessary...in other words, leave it with Rich.  
My advise??  Call Ron and Deb Wehner @ Santa Fe Pointing Labs.  They got what you need.


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## Scottyhardison (Jul 21, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> If you are serious about a Standard Poodle there is only one person IN THE COUNTRY I would consider buying from...Rich Louter @ Louter Creek Hunting Poodles here in Ga.  His dog Cooper is the most titled poodle in HISTORY. That said...Poodles take YEARS to mature, lack the drive that a brittany, gsp, labs, or even goldens have, and are HIGHLY expensive. Also, plan to wait several years for one from Rich...his waiting list is well over a year long...  And no, there are no good Poodle trainers anywhere near Athens.  If you wound up shelling out the several thousand for a well bred Poodle my advise to you would be to leave it with the man who obviously knows the breed for as long as he tells you is necessary...in other words, leave it with Rich.
> My advise??  Call Ron and Deb Wehner @ Santa Fe Pointing Labs.  They got what you need.



What he said x 2


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## ghadarits (Jul 21, 2013)

Pointing Lab. I have one and she was pointing quail wings at 10 weeks old. She will also point at a pigeon that I spin in a bag and hide in the tall grass. Other than that I haven't done any work on the upland game yet but will when I get her back from Joe O.


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## KlineWhitley2054 (Jul 21, 2013)

a couple of options 

1) Boykin
-small in size, great bird dog, good swimmers

2) labradoodles 
-THEY DONT'T SHED, love water, good retrievers, gaining popularity and more people are breeding them 

3) German short haired pointer
-great companion/ family dog, great hunting dog, love water (but they can not handle extreme cold temperatures, and they are hyper (you need land to let them run on )

4) the typical lab


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## Wiemers6909 (Jul 22, 2013)

Thanks joe, didn't know about the yrs to mature part. I've just heard and read great things about them and that they are pricey. So did any of y'all train y'all's own dogs or get a pro to do it? I would like to learn from a pro so I can reinforce his training as time passes and if I got a pup down the road I could start him off


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## Wiemers6909 (Jul 22, 2013)

Also my Brittany had no drive to retrieve we ended up Getting my grandpas Brittany after he passed away and neither one would ever play fetch, they had lots of energy just wouldn't retrieve no matter how hard you tried.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 22, 2013)

ive heard labs are good


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## TB2Blazer (Jul 22, 2013)

I/m in the same boat as you.  I'm wanting to get a dog that will work for both dove/quail and ducks just don't know which dog would be best for it all.  Mine would be an indoor dog and I need something that won't smell/shed too bad.


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## mschlapa (Jul 22, 2013)

These are the dogs I breed, hunt, test and train. They will work well for what you describe and much more.

http://www.vdd-gna.org/


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 22, 2013)

TB2Blazer said:


> I/m in the same boat as you.  I'm wanting to get a dog that will work for both dove/quail and ducks just don't know which dog would be best for it all.  Mine would be an indoor dog and I need something that won't smell/shed too bad.



take a lab outside once every few days and brush them down and the hair in the house will be to a minimum and I have yet to give my lab a bath since she came back from the trainer (end of april) and she doesn't smell bad at all and she has been in some nasty water.


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## king killer delete (Jul 22, 2013)

*Labs*



ThunderRoad said:


> ive heard labs are good


They retrieve ducks ,geese. Blood trail deer. Flush upland birds. Find drugs and bombs. Ride in police cars and military vehicles.  lead blind folks around big citys.  Lewis and Clark even had a big black Newfoundland dog with the core of discovery. They just are not good for much.


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## Flaustin1 (Jul 22, 2013)

My lab was a pretty good all around bird dog.  She was good at flush and retrieve, only saw her point a couple of times and she didn't hold, but she wasn't trained to do it anyway.


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## tpecho (Jul 22, 2013)

GWP all day!


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 23, 2013)

killer elite said:


> They retrieve ducks ,geese. Blood trail deer. Flush upland birds. Find drugs and bombs. Ride in police cars and military vehicles.  lead blind folks around big citys.  Lewis and Clark even had a big black Newfoundland dog with the core of discovery. They just are not good for much.



Yep. I can tell by your avatar pic they seem to struggle in trials too


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 23, 2013)

Si has a poodle. You'll be just like the Duck Commanders.


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## tradhunter98 (Jul 23, 2013)

Supercracker said:


> Have you considered a Drahthaar?
> http://vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php



^^this^^


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## tradhunter98 (Jul 23, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> These are the dogs I breed, hunt, test and train. They will work well for what you describe and much more.
> 
> http://www.vdd-gna.org/



we have a dog from mr. mike the smartest dog i have ever seen with drive thats out of this world!! DD are hard to beat!


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 23, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> Si has a poodle. You'll be just like the Duck Commanders.



nah...that poodle belongs to Rich Louter. He just borrowed it to make a show, and get people to wanna buy poodles to hunt with on GON.


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 23, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> nah...that poodle belongs to Rich Louter. He just borrowed it to make a show, and get people to wanna buy poodles to hunt with on GON.



Seems to be working so far.

All of my non-hunting family tell me about that dang poodle every time they see my lab and I have to explain that the Duck Commanders all use labs and the poodle was a stunt for the show.


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## king killer delete (Jul 23, 2013)

I do not get it. I like poodles but for many generations people have done their best to ruin what was  a good hunting dog hunderds of years ago. If you want to bird hunt get a pointer. If you want to chase something get a hound. if you want a attack dog get a shepard or a dobey or a rot.But if you are truely a duck hunter get a retreiver or a boykin. Allot of dogs will retreive but that does not make them a retreiver. My beagle will retreive but Im not gona take him to the duck blind. He hates water


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 23, 2013)

killer elite said:


> I do not get it. I like poodles but for many generations people have done their best to ruin what was  a good hunting dog hunderds of years ago. If you want to bird hunt get a pointer. If you want to chase something get a hound. if you want a attack dog get a shepard or a dobey or a rot.But if you are truely a duck hunter get a retreiver or a boykin. Allot of dogs will retreive but that does not make them a retreiver. My beagle will retreive but Im not gona take him to the duck blind. He hates water



perfect post


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## gsppurist (Jul 23, 2013)

KlineWhitley2054 said:


> a couple of options
> 
> 1) Boykin
> -small in size, great bird dog, good swimmers
> ...




I guess I am partial to GSP but I run mine in temps as low as 8 degrees F (although I didn't particularly care for that).  The thing that they don't do well is Duck hunting in cold temps (they have to sit still).  I have duck hunted mine in 32 to 40 degrees with no issues.  Buster will sometimes refuse to go into the water unless he is chasing ducks...but who could blame him.   Before I sit in the stand, I let him get a good 30 minutes of running free to stay warm.  I do frequent ear/lip checks to assess his temp. 

The perfect temp to run shorthairs is 30 to 40 degrees...as long as they are kept moving.  They can go all day with no issues.


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## mschlapa (Jul 23, 2013)

killer elite said:


> I do not get it. I like poodles but for many generations people have done their best to ruin what was  a good hunting dog hunderds of years ago. If you want to bird hunt get a pointer. If you want to chase something get a hound. if you want a attack dog get a shepard or a dobey or a rot.But if you are truely a duck hunter get a retreiver or a boykin. Allot of dogs will retreive but that does not make them a retreiver. My beagle will retreive but Im not gona take him to the duck blind. He hates water



I totally agree, but, if you only want one dog and want to pursue all those types of game or more get a Drahthaar.


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## mschlapa (Jul 23, 2013)

tradhunter98 said:


> we have a dog from mr. mike the smartest dog i have ever seen with drive thats out of this world!! DD are hard to beat!



I really enjoyed seeing you all's pup a few weeks ago at my weekend training seminar. She is doing great and people were very impressed with her in the water on her first duck exposure, she put on quite a show. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing her again before testing next spring. Remember if you have any questions or need any help don't hesitate to contact me.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 23, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> I totally agree, but, if you only want one dog and want to pursue all those types of game or more get a Drahthaar.



they make a good attack dog too?


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 23, 2013)

Ive been around one Drahthaar and it was one of the coolest dogs ive seen. Pretty nice dog from a retriever aspect. I didn't see it do anything else but it loved water and loved to retrieve.


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## mschlapa (Jul 24, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> they make a good attack dog too?


They were originally intended to protect ones home and family as well

I have never tried that myself but I know there are some DD  Shutzund trained in Europe on top of their hunting responsibilities.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 24, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> They were originally intended to protect ones home and family as well
> 
> I have never tried that myself but I know there are some DD  Shutzund trained in Europe on top of their hunting responsibilities.



How do DDs perform in hunt tests? Are there a fair amount of field like breeders out there?


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## king killer delete (Jul 24, 2013)

*I dont have anything pro or con for Darthaars*



mschlapa said:


> I totally agree, but, if you only want one dog and want to pursue all those types of game or more get a Drahthaar.


 A lab is a flushing dog not a pointer. But I got to say that the Labrador retreiver is about as good as it gets for an all around dog.  The other day I saw some pics of a U.S. Marine patrol over in the sand box and the dog they had with them was a black lab. With the lab you have a big gene pool to look for what you want out of a dog. I have seen a black dog and a brown dog and a yellow dog break ice to get a downed duck. On the other hand I have not seen that out of a bird dog. You have good dogs in every breed. But I have not seen a duck stamp with a Darhthaar on it. I have to say this if you want to quail hunt get you a pointer. But if you wana hang with the big boys ( waterfowl hunters ) get you a lab and if you dont like the lab get some other retreiver and I include the boykin in that group.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 24, 2013)

Killer, you can lead a horse to water...


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 24, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Killer, you can lead a horse to water...



But you can't make a poodle get in it


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## ngaduck (Jul 24, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> But you can't make a poodle get in it



Wow. Scramage made a funny.


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## mschlapa (Jul 24, 2013)

killer elite said:


> A lab is a flushing dog not a pointer. But I got to say that the Labrador retreiver is about as good as it gets for an all around dog.  The other day I saw some pics of a U.S. Marine patrol over in the sand box and the dog they had with them was a black lab. With the lab you have a big gene pool to look for what you want out of a dog. I have seen a black dog and a brown dog and a yellow dog break ice to get a downed duck. On the other hand I have not seen that out of a bird dog. You have good dogs in every breed. But I have not seen a duck stamp with a Darhthaar on it. I have to say this if you want to quail hunt get you a pointer. But if you wana hang with the big boys ( waterfowl hunters ) get you a lab and if you dont like the lab get some other retreiver and I include the boykin in that group.





Let me make this clear one last time:
If all you want to do is duck hunt I agree totally, get a lab.
If all you want to do is hunt quail, get a pointer.
If all you want to do is hunt small furred game get a terrier.
If all you want to do is hunt big game get a hound.
If all you want to do is blood track get a BMH.

All these breeds are specialists. I have had a kennel full with 10-15 dogs, retrievers, pointers, hounds, bulldogs, beagles and hunted everything from dove to boar and bear with them. I grew up, got married, had kids and had to get a real job. I don't have the space, money or even desire to keep that many dogs. That is why I went to the DD and DJT, I only have to keep a few dogs and if chosen carefully they are more than capable of doing all of the above. My DD do everything but earth work and the DJT do everything but point and serious water retrieving.

I am not trying to start a who's dog is better than who's debate.

The DD may not be the "best" at anything, but they can be good at everything, as it pertains to hunting.

That is what they were intended to be, a versatile hunting dog. For anyone that is interested here is some info. 
http://www.vdd-gna.org/

My name is Mike Schlapa, I live in N. GA and I own 
vom Mountain Creek Kennel.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 24, 2013)

Mike, no one is really "knocking" your dogs. Its just that us lab guys know that our dogs aren't necessarily "specialists" like some claim.  Yes, they are better in the water than any other breed but that is only one quality. Our labs, flush, they point, they track, they find sheds, narcotics, and explosives. The reason the US military started using labs is because of their ease of training, versatility of use, and multi-handler capability. The reason most "newbies" do better with labs is because of the availability of proven training programs that are commercially available, the convenience of an abundance of lab based training groups, a multitude of professional trainers that work with the breed, the availability of healthy, well pedigreed puppies, and the basic general ease of training a lab. Someone asks you what the best all around dog is you reply a DD...someone asks me I choose a lab every time. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - for tat I feel labs do all of the other stuff as well as any other breed but with water being the great equalizer a lab just gets the nod. Again its my opinion..

My name is Joe Overby, I live in N Ga, and I own Candler Creek Retrievers.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 24, 2013)

german shorthaired pointers. Great dogs.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 24, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> My name is Joe Overby, I live in N Ga, and I own Candler Creek Retrievers.



No advertising sir.


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## king killer delete (Jul 24, 2013)

*what is this.*



mschlapa said:


> Let me make this clear one last time:
> If all you want to do is duck hunt I agree totally, get a lab.
> If all you want to do is hunt quail, get a pointer.
> If all you want to do is hunt small furred game get a terrier.
> ...


You know  I guess that 20 years in the U.S. Army does not count  as a real job.

After that I went to work and still work every day in a chemical plant. I am sorry that you do not like what I said. I don't think I said anything wrong and it was not done to make you mad. Waterfowlers do not hunt with bird dogs. I was training and breeding dogs in the late 1970s all through the 1980s and I got out of the dog game in the 1990s. I have a national retriever pin. You can not buy one you have to earn it. 1985 national retreiver championship committee.  Now you came here and ask a question.


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## mschlapa (Jul 24, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Mike, no one is really "knocking" your dogs. Its just that us lab guys know that our dogs aren't necessarily "specialists" like some claim.  Yes, they are better in the water than any other breed but that is only one quality. Our labs, flush, they point, they track, they find sheds, narcotics, and explosives. The reason the US military started using labs is because of their ease of training, versatility of use, and multi-handler capability. The reason most "newbies" do better with labs is because of the availability of proven training programs that are commercially available, the convenience of an abundance of lab based training groups, a multitude of professional trainers that work with the breed, the availability of healthy, well pedigreed puppies, and the basic general ease of training a lab. Someone asks you what the best all around dog is you reply a DD...someone asks me I choose a lab every time. - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - for tat I feel labs do all of the other stuff as well as any other breed but with water being the great equalizer a lab just gets the nod. Again its my opinion..
> 
> My name is Joe Overby, I live in N Ga, and I own Candler Creek Retrievers.



I am not knocking your dogs either, but, the average lab bred in the US is pet quality and is of no use for hunting. How many 100,000 are whelped each year in the akc alone? Most any breed is capable of flushing game if they have enough interest or prey drive to move towards what they smell. I have hunted pheasant in SD and a friend used his Jack Russell with good success. I wont even comment on the general view of the "pointing labs" in the bird dog world and I have never seen a lab out while coon, fox, coyote, boar, bear or lion hunting so I must question their tracking. I don't care about narcotics or explosives as my interest lies in hunting dogs but there are some DD on with law enforcement in this country in SAR and cadaver dogs as well. I grew up hunting with labs as most of my family had them, my Dads last one died just recently and I usually hunt with some each year. I have owned and trained a few myself over the years but maybe I have never seen one of the good ones? I appreciate labs for what they are, the best retrievers. I have seen some that were serviceable flushers but to say they are as good as the other specialists in their respective fields is ridiculous.

Just my opinion


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## mschlapa (Jul 24, 2013)

killer elite said:


> You know  I guess that 20 years in the U.S. Army does not count  as a real job.
> 
> After that I went to work and still work every day in a chemical plant. I am sorry that you do not like what I said. I don't think I said anything wrong and it was not done to make you mad. Waterfowlers do not hunt with bird dogs. I was training and breeding dogs in the late 1970s all through the 1980s and I got out of the dog game in the 1990s. I have a national retriever pin. You can not buy one you have to earn it. 1985 national retreiver championship committee.  Now you came here and ask a question.



Nothing I said was in any way directed towards you. I am sorry if you took it that way and thank you for your service. I was speaking about myself. Its different when you are single and can do as you please with out any other responsibilities.  I got married, had a few kids and familial obligations so some things had to change for me as I had different priorities. I have been involved with training dogs for about 30 years myself, mostly for hunting and some hunt tests. Not sure what you mean about asking a question.  The DD is not a bird dog, they area versatile or gun dog used for all types of hunting. Bird hunters, small game hunter or big game hunters  don't hunt with labs either.


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## king killer delete (Jul 24, 2013)

*We use them all the time to blood trail deer.*



mschlapa said:


> I am not knocking your dogs either, but, the average lab bred in the US is pet quality and is of no use for hunting. How many 100,000 are whelped each year in the akc alone? Most any breed is capable of flushing game if they have enough interest or prey drive to move towards what they smell. I have hunted pheasant in SD and a friend used his Jack Russell with good success. I wont even comment on the general view of the "pointing labs" in the bird dog world and I have never seen a lab out while coon, fox, coyote, boar, bear or lion hunting so I must question their tracking. I don't care about narcotics or explosives as my interest lies in hunting dogs but there are some DD on with law enforcement in this country in SAR and cadaver dogs as well. I grew up hunting with labs as most of my family had them, my Dads last one died just recently and I usually hunt with some each year. I have owned and trained a few myself over the years but maybe I have never seen one of the good ones? I appreciate labs for what they are, the best retrievers. I have seen some that were serviceable flushers but to say they are as good as the other specialists in their respective fields is ridiculous.
> 
> Just my opinion


I have hunted a good amount of the same things you have. Not lions but pretty much every thing else and the military does use them to hunt men as scout dogs. All you have to do is go to war dogs and you can see how they are keeping our troops alive everyday. That is not my opinion that is documented fact. The reason we have so many labs out there is because they can do just about anything. When was the last time you saw a bird dog or a hound leading a blind person around some city. I have never seen a hound or other dogs count. Go to a retreiver hunt test or a retriever Fld trial and watch all the retriever breeds. My retreivers have all been able to count. I have seen labs watch birds fall and I mean as many as 7 birds and I have had labs that would remember each bird an retreive each bird in the order it fell. As far as a pointing lab we are on the same page on that one. And I still love my beagle.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 24, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> I am not knocking your dogs either, but, the average lab bred in the US is pet quality and is of no use for hunting. How many 100,000 are whelped each year in the akc alone? Most any breed is capable of flushing game if they have enough interest or prey drive to move towards what they smell. I have hunted pheasant in SD and a friend used his Jack Russell with good success. I wont even comment on the general view of the "pointing labs" in the bird dog world and I have never seen a lab out while coon, fox, coyote, boar, bear or lion hunting so I must question their tracking. I don't care about narcotics or explosives as my interest lies in hunting dogs but there are some DD on with law enforcement in this country in SAR and cadaver dogs as well. I grew up hunting with labs as most of my family had them, my Dads last one died just recently and I usually hunt with some each year. I have owned and trained a few myself over the years but maybe I have never seen one of the good ones? I appreciate labs for what they are, the best retrievers. I have seen some that were serviceable flushers but to say they are as good as the other specialists in their respective fields is ridiculous.
> 
> Just my opinion


Ridiculous?? Really?? About the only thing labs aren't used for is bite work. Yes, many are bred for pets but educated, dedicated, responsible breeders are breeding for one purpose...performance. I don't care what pointing dog people think of pointing labs. My personal dog has as staunch a point of any pointer you have ever seen. 
But let's talk versatility for a minute. You say you don't care about narcotics or explosives but the only difference in finding bombs and finding birds is the actual object being sought. Labs point, flush, quarter, retrieve, handle cold weather, track people, are used in SAR, as cadaver dogs,  are used by the USMC and special forces to locate IEDs, are used by police forces and the TSA and border patrol to locate drugs and illegal immigrants, are trained as companion and assistance dogs for the handicapped, help autistic children, and work as seeing eye dogs. Did I miss anything?? 
Now, let's talk testing standards. I have seen NAVHDAs idea of a "test"...in my professional opinion, it is a joke of a test when it comes to water...while the dogs may perform well on land "sub par" would be a good assessment of their water work. Labs are tested extensively on both land and water across many venues recognized by several registries worldwide. HRC, APLA, and NAHRA test for upland work, while NAHRA specifically tests for tracking ability. The AKC and HRC have testing standards and associated titles recognized by the AKC,UKC, and CKC as well as several other smaller registries. Labs show their versatility in every testing regimine they are put through. 
I'm glad you love your dogs but to say they are as versatile or even comparable is ridiculous. Their water work alone has them playing second fiddle. If DDs were just as versatile why wouldn't they be the go to breed for all of the aforementioned reasons?? DDs have their place and I'm sure you can talk one into picking up the chickens but for sheer versatility the Labrador Retriever cannot be rivaled. While a labs specialty may be the water they are just as serviceable in any other facet and do their job, whatever it may be, with zest and unrivaled enthusiasm. 
I guess I'll just continue to be ridiculous...


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## backyardkennels (Jul 24, 2013)

Were in Merica so you should get a merican dog.


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## king killer delete (Jul 24, 2013)

*x2x2*



Joe Overby said:


> Ridiculous?? Really?? About the only thing labs aren't used for is bite work. Yes, many are bred for pets but educated, dedicated, responsible breeders are breeding for one purpose...performance. I don't care what pointing dog people think of pointing labs. My personal dog has as staunch a point of any pointer you have ever seen.
> But let's talk versatility for a minute. You say you don't care about narcotics or explosives but the only difference in finding bombs and finding birds is the actual object being sought. Labs point, flush, quarter, retrieve, handle cold weather, track people, are used in SAR, as cadaver dogs,  are used by the USMC and special forces to locate IEDs, are used by police forces and the TSA and border patrol to locate drugs and illegal immigrants, are trained as companion and assistance dogs for the handicapped, help autistic children, and work as seeing eye dogs. Did I miss anything??
> Now, let's talk testing standards. I have seen NAVHDAs idea of a "test"...in my professional opinion, it is a joke of a test when it comes to water...while the dogs may perform well on land "sub par" would be a good assessment of their water work. Labs are tested extensively on both land and water across many venues recognized by several registries worldwide. HRC, APLA, and NAHRA test for upland work, while NAHRA specifically tests for tracking ability. The AKC and HRC have testing standards and associated titles recognized by the AKC,UKC, and CKC as well as several other smaller registries. Labs show their versatility in every testing regimine they are put through.
> I'm glad you love your dogs but to say they are as versatile or even comparable is ridiculous. Their water work alone has them playing second fiddle. If DDs were just as versatile why wouldn't they be the go to breed for all of the aforementioned reasons?? DDs have their place and I'm sure you can talk one into picking up the chickens but for sheer versatility the Labrador Retriever cannot be rivaled. While a labs specialty may be the water they are just as serviceable in any other facet and do their job, whatever it may be, with zest and unrivaled enthusiasm.
> I guess I'll just continue to be ridiculous...


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

```

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Agree with joe and killer. Good posts.


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## bander_TC50 (Jul 25, 2013)

i agree with joe and killer as well. but im not nearly as educated in the debate as the rest of you. but in refrence to so many labs bread as pets. i think the reason you see so many as pets is that they are good around kids. they seem to be naturaly social. but just because there are so many labs that are strictly pets doesnt mean you could not train one of those "pets" to be a meat or a trial dog. 

but on the same note i had a lab that wouldn't retreave a t bone steak if you threw it across the yard for him. all he did was eat and do what ever he wanted regardless of what you wanted him to do.


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## Scottyhardison (Jul 25, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Ridiculous?? Really?? About the only thing labs aren't used for is bite work. Yes, many are bred for pets but educated, dedicated, responsible breeders are breeding for one purpose...performance. I don't care what pointing dog people think of pointing labs. My personal dog has as staunch a point of any pointer you have ever seen.
> But let's talk versatility for a minute. You say you don't care about narcotics or explosives but the only difference in finding bombs and finding birds is the actual object being sought. Labs point, flush, quarter, retrieve, handle cold weather, track people, are used in SAR, as cadaver dogs,  are used by the USMC and special forces to locate IEDs, are used by police forces and the TSA and border patrol to locate drugs and illegal immigrants, are trained as companion and assistance dogs for the handicapped, help autistic children, and work as seeing eye dogs. Did I miss anything??
> Now, let's talk testing standards. I have seen NAVHDAs idea of a "test"...in my professional opinion, it is a joke of a test when it comes to water...while the dogs may perform well on land "sub par" would be a good assessment of their water work. Labs are tested extensively on both land and water across many venues recognized by several registries worldwide. HRC, APLA, and NAHRA test for upland work, while NAHRA specifically tests for tracking ability. The AKC and HRC have testing standards and associated titles recognized by the AKC,UKC, and CKC as well as several other smaller registries. Labs show their versatility in every testing regimine they are put through.
> I'm glad you love your dogs but to say they are as versatile or even comparable is ridiculous. Their water work alone has them playing second fiddle. If DDs were just as versatile why wouldn't they be the go to breed for all of the aforementioned reasons?? DDs have their place and I'm sure you can talk one into picking up the chickens but for sheer versatility the Labrador Retriever cannot be rivaled. While a labs specialty may be the water they are just as serviceable in any other facet and do their job, whatever it may be, with zest and unrivaled enthusiasm.
> I guess I'll just continue to be ridiculous...



Undeniably without question the Labrador Retriever is the most versatile highly trainable breed there is period. No other breed has ever been as widely accepted or successful in as many roles. 

Joe it pains me to have to agree with you this often.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

Look guys you got good and bad in every breed. I sold 164 lab puppies all the way from Alsaska to PR.  The first AKC Master hunter to come out of the Augusta Area came from my Kennels. The only reason I did not have UKC titled dogs was the fact that UKC had not caught on in Georgia when I quit the dog game.  I dont have anything pro or con for the DD. I can understand how some body with that breed of dog would want to use him for an all around dog. But folks that are not duck hunters dont understand that Retreivers and Boykins are not bird dogs.  They have been used for the main thing we want them for and that is pick up the birds that we shoot. When we talk Labs we are talking the main breed of dog we use and thats not to say that we dont have allot of other dogs that retreive in our sport. I post from time to time on the upland forum and I respect those point breeds as great dogs. But I would not go on that forum and trash bird dogs. I dont care what you say its just as much fun watching a good bird dog work as it is a good retreiver work. I dont care if you have an old meat dog that picks up for you or a Master or Fld champ. If your happy with what you have Im ok with it. I dont care if came out of the back yard or a great breeding. I dont care if your dog came from the pound. If he does what you want him to do. I think thats great. Now saying that you have got to respect the folks that are out there improving the breed by test and trial.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

I have a German Shorthaired Pointer, shes 6 moths old. Already does all commands. She points and holds, She'll be retrieving dove, Retrieves in water, if she cant see the bumper or duck she is smart enough to get down wind of it in the tall swamp grass and finds it. She does hand direction signals. This fall Im going to get her tracking deer blood for when I shoot a deer. I have her and my dad has her sister. 6 months old and acting like an adult dog. GSP amazing dogs.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

But.... if you dont get them out there everyday and all hyped up, they'll be boring dogs. They have insane desire. Just gotta keep them entertained. so whenever you hunt you gotta shoot something!


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Ridiculous?? Really?? About the only thing labs aren't used for is bite work. Yes, many are bred for pets but educated, dedicated, responsible breeders are breeding for one purpose...performance. I don't care what pointing dog people think of pointing labs. My personal dog has as staunch a point of any pointer you have ever seen.
> But let's talk versatility for a minute. You say you don't care about narcotics or explosives but the only difference in finding bombs and finding birds is the actual object being sought. Labs point, flush, quarter, retrieve, handle cold weather, track people, are used in SAR, as cadaver dogs,  are used by the USMC and special forces to locate IEDs, are used by police forces and the TSA and border patrol to locate drugs and illegal immigrants, are trained as companion and assistance dogs for the handicapped, help autistic children, and work as seeing eye dogs. Did I miss anything??
> Now, let's talk testing standards. I have seen NAVHDAs idea of a "test"...in my professional opinion, it is a joke of a test when it comes to water...while the dogs may perform well on land "sub par" would be a good assessment of their water work. Labs are tested extensively on both land and water across many venues recognized by several registries worldwide. HRC, APLA, and NAHRA test for upland work, while NAHRA specifically tests for tracking ability. The AKC and HRC have testing standards and associated titles recognized by the AKC,UKC, and CKC as well as several other smaller registries. Labs show their versatility in every testing regimine they are put through.
> I'm glad you love your dogs but to say they are as versatile or even comparable is ridiculous. Their water work alone has them playing second fiddle. If DDs were just as versatile why wouldn't they be the go to breed for all of the aforementioned reasons?? DDs have their place and I'm sure you can talk one into picking up the chickens but for sheer versatility the Labrador Retriever cannot be rivaled. While a labs specialty may be the water they are just as serviceable in any other facet and do their job, whatever it may be, with zest and unrivaled enthusiasm.
> I guess I'll just continue to be ridiculous...



Did you type that all with your phone? Impressive. 


Can your labs do hand directional signals?


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

*Come down to the coast and lets see*



ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I have a German Shorthaired Pointer, shes 6 moths old. Already does all commands. She points and holds, She'll be retrieving dove, Retrieves in water, if she cant see the bumper or duck she is smart enough to get down wind of it in the tall swamp grass and finds it. She does hand direction signals. This fall Im going to get her tracking deer blood for when I shoot a deer. I have her and my dad has her sister. 6 months old and acting like an adult dog. GSP amazing dogs.


How she does in the big water.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

killer elite said:


> How she does in the big water.



She does great! We launch them way out there and she'll go out and bring it right back. Amazing swimmers


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I have a German Shorthaired Pointer, shes 6 moths old. Already does all commands. She points and holds, She'll be retrieving dove, Retrieves in water, if she cant see the bumper or duck she is smart enough to get down wind of it in the tall swamp grass and finds it. She does hand direction signals. This fall Im going to get her tracking deer blood for when I shoot a deer. I have her and my dad has her sister. 6 months old and acting like an adult dog. GSP amazing dogs.



all commands? hand direction signals huh? impressive.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> all commands? hand direction signals huh? impressive.



all commands as in sit, hold, heel, here, stay, woah. stuff like that. She's still a puppy, but believe me or not, they're both incredible.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

we'er just now about to work whistles with them instead of having to holler their names to get their attention


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> but believe me or not, they're both incredible.



not


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

Quit picking on the kid thunder. You said the same thing about Shelly.


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## ryano (Jul 25, 2013)

bander_TC50 said:


> but just because there are so many labs that are strictly pets doesnt mean you could not train one of those "pets" to be a meat or a trial dog.
> 
> .



The Lab in my avatar is from "pet" stock.  Not a hunter or title in her pedigree for 5 generations.  Against all recommendations that would come from most people for a good hunting dog, she was bred in a back yard in Alabama.  I gave 100.00 for her.   She will never be a grand champion anything but she does have her SHR and has a desire to do the work that i would put up against any other.  She lives for it.   in fact, she is a little TOO over zealous for her own good.

I realize I got lucky with her much like winning big on a 1.00 scratch off. She was placed in the hands of a good friend and he made a decent hunting dog out of her.  A 'meat dog" if you will   She is also my service dog as well.   

With that said, when she is gone, my next one will come from a good proven and titled hunting stock.

I said all that to say these few words.   With some luck and a good trainer, I also believe that some pets can be trained to do the work.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Quit picking on the kid thunder. You said the same thing about Shelly.



1. Someone told me to have thick skin about training dogs
2. Mine is Shelby, not Shelly...which is clearly a girl name
3. Hand direction signals makes no sense


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> 1. Someone told me to have thick skin about training dogs
> 2. Mine is Shelby, not Shelly...which is clearly a girl name
> 3. Hand direction signals makes no sense



Just to let you know my dogs name is Margie. Obivously you dont duck hunt because hand signals work extremely well when i dog cant find the duck. 
and duh, you gotta have thick skin when training dogs. 
So, good for you, dont believe me because i could care less. I just know my dog is insanely good and you are just jealous. No No:


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Just to let you know my dogs name is Margie. Obivously you dont duck hunt because hand signals work extremely well when i dog cant find the duck.
> and duh, you gotta have thick skin when training dogs.
> So, good for you, dont believe me because i could care less. I just know my dog is insanely good and you are just jealous. No No:



I'm out.


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## ryano (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Obivously you dont duck hunt because hand signals work extremely well when i dog cant find the duck.



I think the correct term you are looking for is casting.

Im a newbie at all this though so what do I know


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

ryano said:


> I think the correct term you are looking for is casting.
> 
> Im a newbie at all this though so what do I know



maybe you're right. I was just trying to say that GSP are quick learners and great dogs, then ol buddy had to get upset


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> 1. Someone told me to have thick skin about training dogs
> 2. Mine is Shelby, not Shelly...which is clearly a girl name
> 3. Hand direction signals makes no sense





#1 is of utmost importance.  Especially with our crowd and especially if you're gonna walk up to the line with 30 lb brown curly haired dogs.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Always keep rocks in pockets


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## ngaduck (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> 1. Someone told me to have thick skin about training dogs
> 2. Mine is Shelby, not Shelly...which is clearly a girl name
> 3. Hand direction signals makes no sense



I have a cousin named Shelby. She is a girl.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Just to let you know my dogs name is Margie. Obivously you dont duck hunt because hand signals work extremely well when i dog cant find the duck.
> and duh, you gotta have thick skin when training dogs.
> So, good for you, dont believe me because i could care less. I just know my dog is insanely good and you are just jealous. No No:



How you goin about teachin hand signals, never really thought about doin it but it may be worth it if it easy to do


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> How you goin about teachin hand signals, never really thought about doin it but it may be worth it if it easy to do



if he is talking about hand signals as in handleing (whistle sit dog they look at you then you give them a direction and they go that direction) in theory is easy but in real life it isnt all that easy because you basically telling the dog to turn off its eyes and nose and to listen to you and work as a team. also it takes quite a bit of time to get a dog to be able to do this in many situations and to ignore many factors like (an old fall, land to water, water to land, breaking cover, decoys, ect...) and to trust you that you are leading them to the bird.

now the other hand signals like sit here heel all that can be done pretty easily while you are training your pup obiedience and the same can be done with the whistle.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

kbronc- I don't get why you would want to turn the eyes and nose off on huntin dogs. That's what god gave them to find the bird.


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> kbronc- I don't get why you would want to turn the eyes and nose off on huntin dogs. That's what god gave them to find the bird.



because you are telling the dog where to go and to ignore everything else.

good situation that happens more than you would think.

4 or 5 birds go down in the spread dog didnt see all the birds go down. you have a crippled bird that is 70-80 yards out and the dog didnt see go down. at this point in time to get the dog on that crippled bird before it gets away he has to go quickly. remember the dog has seen other birds go down and after you line the dog and send them on the blind retrieve they might be passing dead ducks that are up wind of the dog (nose full of duck) if the dog doesnt turn off its eyes and nose and listen to you and take the cast correctly the chances of loosing the cripple are pretty dang high. and we all know the point of having a dog in the blind is so we dont loose birds.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

krazybronco2 said:


> because you are telling the dog where to go and to ignore everything else.
> 
> good situation that happens more than you would think.
> 
> 4 or 5 birds go down in the spread dog didnt see all the birds go down. you have a crippled bird that is 70-80 yards out and the dog didnt see go down. at this point in time to get the dog on that crippled bird before it gets away he has to go quickly. remember the dog has seen other birds go down and after you line the dog and send them on the blind retrieve they might be passing dead ducks that are up wind of the dog (nose full of duck) if the dog doesnt turn off its eyes and nose and listen to you and take the cast correctly the chances of loosing the cripple are pretty dang high. and we all know the point of having a dog in the blind is so we dont loose birds.



I am talking about what youre talking about. Ill throw 2-3 duck bumpers out and she'll bring back one and she'll go search for the other ones and if she cant find it i will yell her name and she'll look at me and 8 times out of 10 she'll go the direction i motion my hand. I mean she's only 6 months but i was just saying how awesome it is that a young dog like that can understand a command like that. I was just impressed. I know she's young and I know she wont do it everytime but it really does help when you are duck hunting and more than one duck goes down.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

I need a handle on my dog.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

I need a beer


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I am talking about what youre talking about. Ill throw 2-3 duck bumpers out and she'll bring back one and she'll go search for the other ones and if she cant find it i will yell her name and she'll look at me and 8 times out of 10 she'll go the direction i motion my hand. I mean she's only 6 months but i was just saying how awesome it is that a young dog like that can understand a command like that. I was just impressed. I know she's young and I know she wont do it everytime but it really does help when you are duck hunting and more than one duck goes down.



What does she do 2 out of 10 times?


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

ngaduck said:


> I have a cousin named Shelby. She is a girl.



I figured youd be commenting on that one, but thought Joe would get to it first.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> What does she do 2 out of 10 times?



she keeps running around looking until she finds it instead of looking at me.


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I am talking about what youre talking about. Ill throw 2-3 duck bumpers out and she'll bring back one and she'll go search for the other ones and if she cant find it i will yell her name and she'll look at me and 8 times out of 10 she'll go the direction i motion my hand. I mean she's only 6 months but i was just saying how awesome it is that a young dog like that can understand a command like that. I was just impressed. I know she's young and I know she wont do it everytime but it really does help when you are duck hunting and more than one duck goes down.



it is good that your pup can do this but i do not think we are talking about the same thing. 

what you are talking about is the dog saw 2-3 birds go down picks up one. then comes back runs around a little bit then you lead the dog to the bird (again good that your pup can do this but mine has done it as well) again the dog has seen the bird go down and has a pretty good idea of where the bird is just needed some help. 

what i am talking about is the dog didnt see the bird go down has no idea where it is and has to ignore all the other birds that it has seen go down. this is where being able to handle your dog on a blind retrieve is different than handleing to a mark. (handleing to a mark is normally not good because it means the dog didnt truely mark the bird)

try this take a bumper/duck and put it 50yards out (dont let the dog see you put it out there) then bring the dog out and throw it a mark 90 degrees from where the other bumper/duck is. after the pup picks up the mark turn and release the dog but it cant run around all willy nilly to get there it needs to go on as straight of a line as possible and always driving closer to the line or the bird. see how that goes. my guess is the pup will be very confused and have no idea what you are asking it to do becuase dogs do not naturally know to take a cast. 

im not trying to be rude with any of this just trying to give you some info and to inform you.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

krazybronco2 said:


> it is good that your pup can do this but i do not think we are talking about the same thing.
> 
> what you are talking about is the dog saw 2-3 birds go down picks up one. then comes back runs around a little bit then you lead the dog to the bird (again good that your pup can do this but mine has done it as well) again the dog has seen the bird go down and has a pretty good idea of where the bird is just needed some help.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info. do you do dog training?


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Thanks for the info. do you do dog training?



i train my dog almost everyday, if i get time i go and train with pro trainers and try an pick their brains as much as i can. and at night when im watching tv i read training forums and learn from problems that other people ask about. 

i do all of this to better my dog and to better myself when the time comes for a hunt/hunt test. 

also one of the best things you can do is get a training program and follow it step for step. when you have problems find a pro or a training group and ask questions and have them show you what you are doing wrong cause 99.99% of the time if the dog does something wrong it is your fault not the dogs.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

krazybronco2 said:


> because you are telling the dog where to go and to ignore everything else.
> 
> good situation that happens more than you would think.
> 
> 4 or 5 birds go down in the spread dog didnt see all the birds go down. you have a crippled bird that is 70-80 yards out and the dog didnt see go down. at this point in time to get the dog on that crippled bird before it gets away he has to go quickly. remember the dog has seen other birds go down and after you line the dog and send them on the blind retrieve they might be passing dead ducks that are up wind of the dog (nose full of duck) if the dog doesnt turn off its eyes and nose and listen to you and take the cast correctly the chances of loosing the cripple are pretty dang high. and we all know the point of having a dog in the blind is so we dont loose birds.



Your tellin me you can make your dog go past dead duck to pick up another that he doesn't know where's at?


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## krazybronco2 (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Your tellin me you can make your dog go past dead duck to pick up another that he doesn't know where's at?



my dog right now no she can not but we are training to be able to do that. Like I said in an earlier post it takes quite a bit of time and constancy to get a dog to that level. I have been working on her blind work for about 3 months and I'm just over half way there. She and I still have a ways to go before we are at this level.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

krazybronco2 said:


> i train my dog almost everyday, if i get time i go and train with pro trainers and try an pick their brains as much as i can. and at night when im watching tv i read training forums and learn from problems that other people ask about.
> 
> i do all of this to better my dog and to better myself when the time comes for a hunt/hunt test.
> 
> also one of the best things you can do is get a training program and follow it step for step. when you have problems find a pro or a training group and ask questions and have them show you what you are doing wrong cause 99.99% of the time if the dog does something wrong it is your fault not the dogs.



Same here me and my dad have a dvd set of Evan Graham? I think. It goes through all kinds of training stuff. We work them everyday. Its fun.


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## ShellytheDuckSlayer (Jul 25, 2013)

And after shes a yeaer old in January she's going to a waterfowl training specialist that my dad met. Hope she turns out to be a beast.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Has anyone tried yee and haw for command like they use on mules?


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

It's getting crazy up here in this place.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

So if I teach a German wired hair retriever gee and haw I won't need to carry extra rocks in my pocket to pick up my tealz.


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## mschlapa (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Were in Merica so you should get a merican dog.



What constitutes an American dog? Very few dogs originated in America


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> What constitutes an American dog? Very few dogs originated in America



Merican field lab, anything else in inferior!


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I am talking about what youre talking about. Ill throw 2-3 duck bumpers out and she'll bring back one and she'll go search for the other ones and if she cant find it i will yell her name and she'll look at me and 8 times out of 10 she'll go the direction i motion my hand. I mean she's only 6 months but i was just saying how awesome it is that a young dog like that can understand a command like that. I was just impressed. I know she's young and I know she wont do it everytime but it really does help when you are duck hunting and more than one duck goes down.



Do you put any scent on your duck bumpers?


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

I tell my poodle "go fetch up my duck birds boy" and he goes an gets them. Is that the same as this handling stuff?


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> So if I teach a German wired hair retriever gee and haw I won't need to carry extra rocks in my pocket to pick up my tealz.



I have my women on the same commands


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Do you put any scent on your duck bumpers?



Dummy bumpers? Yes. 
Duck bumpers? No.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> Dummy bumpers? Yes.
> Duck bumpers? No.



what kind you like most


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## ngaduck (Jul 25, 2013)

ThunderRoad said:


> I have my women on the same commands



Shelby?


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

It's Shelly!
U better recognize


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Same here me and my dad have a dvd set of Evan Graham? I think. It goes through all kinds of training stuff. We work them everyday. Its fun.



No offense but you're not following Evan Graham's full system in order the way it was intended.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 25, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> No offense but you're not following Evan Graham's full system in order the way it was intended.



Go easy on the kid TT


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Your tellin me you can make your dog go past dead duck to pick up another that he doesn't know where's at?



100% of the time.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Always keep rocks in pockets



For what??


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> For what??



To pick up birds didn't see fall


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

Beau, do yourself a favor. Sit the dog facing you and place his food bowl full of food out 10 feet to his right. Do not let him have it right away. Make him sit there till he looks at you. When he looks at you point at the bowl with your left hand and say over. Do this every time you feed him changing up the "casts" as he begins to understand. This is the beginning of teaching a dog to "cast". 
Who is the "waterfowl specialist" your dad met? Why are you waiting till he is a year old? 
Be careful with what you think you are teaching your dog. The best thing you can give a trainer is a well behaved, bird crazy pup. If you "teach" too much the trainer very well might have to "un-teach" a lot of what you thought was a good idea. Just be careful is all.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> To pick up birds didn't see fall



Completely unnecessary.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Joe Overby said:


> Completely unnecessary.



Could you show me to teach dog to gee and haw?


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

Also completely unnecessary...


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

settle down Mr. Joe, this thread was really going in a different direction till you got all serious and all.....


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. With one command Back.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Mr. Joe seems he knows what he talks about so does kbronc. I would like more advise from them.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

Mark


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

Pick up your dog please sir. So much for that entry fee


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

killer elite said:


> The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. With one command Back.



Unless water is between then land around is faster. How taught math to you


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## head buster (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> Just to let you know my dogs name is Margie. Obivously you dont duck hunt because hand signals work extremely well when i dog cant find the duck.
> and duh, you gotta have thick skin when training dogs.
> So, good for you, dont believe me because i could care less. I just know my dog is insanely good and you are just jealous. No No:


 
That is one funny post. Obviously a newbie! Maybe you should read more before you post.

Some really good laughs on these posts.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

*Bank running is not*



backyardkennels said:


> Unless water is between then land around is faster. How taught math to you


Allowed please pick up your dog sir. Next you need to try a swim by.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

I dont pick my dogs up sir they stink and are wet. And why do you want dogs to swimby? Let me gues we makin them swim by duck again.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

Back         pop pop pop  whistle overrrrr pop whistle BBACKKKK Here here here . Pick up your dog sir. Another entry fee gone.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

ShellytheDuckSlayer said:


> I mean she's only 6 months but i was just saying how awesome it is that a young dog like that can understand a command like that. I was just impressed. I know she's young and I know she wont do it everytime but it really does help when you are duck hunting and more than one duck goes down.



so shes never been duck hunting?


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

Sorry I having flash backs.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

killer elite said:


> Back         pop pop pop  whistle overrrrr pop whistle BBACKKKK Here here here . Pick up your dog sir. Another entry fee gone.



This a joke or you hurtin your dog by poppin it

If I pop my pit he bites


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

*Turkey*



Turkey Trax said:


> so shes never been duck hunting?



If shes only six months old she is just losing her milk teeth and the only place she has seen a duck blind is in a book on the floor.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 25, 2013)

killer elite said:


> If shes only six months old she is just losing her milk teeth and the only place she has seen a duck blind is in a book on the floor.



so...that pointer aint never been in cold water either. 

things could get interesting around the 2nd split for the young fella.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 25, 2013)

Guess you fellas are jealous if the young dog to. Sounds like the fella has things figured and yalls just jealous


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

*You are so right*



Turkey Trax said:


> so...that pointer aint never been in cold water either.
> 
> things could get interesting around the 2nd split for the young fella.


He will be shook up when he hears her teeth rattle. He will send that bird dog on a retrieve and she will role those big eyes and say not today dad.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 25, 2013)

Killer, you need to be nice.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Guess you fellas are jealous if the young dog to. Sounds like the fella has things figured and yalls just jealous


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## head buster (Jul 25, 2013)

Shoot she may not even make it out the door.


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## king killer delete (Jul 25, 2013)

*Im just funnin*



Joe Overby said:


> Killer, you need to be nice.



I just want to see this dog. You know I have been suffering from flash backs. Please pick up your dog sir. Ok Joe Im going to the Walt Disney forum


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## NUTT (Jul 25, 2013)

*For What it's Worth*

We are the proud owners of two beautiful GSP's that ShellytheDuckSlayer is talking about. They were purchased from a quality Kennel and both have great bloodllines which I did quite a bit of research on before our purchase because of the great advice from some great people on this forum. 
They are doing incredibly well for their age and we are fortunate to be able to spend time with them daily. They are doing well on commands like sit, whoa, stay, kennel, load up, and most importantly "HERE". Broke them from running deer this past week; I think; as they now just look at them(5 this evening) and stare. Both have been introduced to a Tritronics e collar and have responded well. 
In a few months and as money becomes available(ShellytheDuckSlayer has a sister who is 4.0 student at UGA that is costing me dearly) I plan on getting ShellytheDuckSlayer's pup, Marge with Mr. Jerry Day to begin training. I met Mr. Day this week and he is like a lot of you guys on this forum; willing to help newbies like us learn how to develop our passion for our new pets. StheDS starts college this fall and will have time to spend chasing ducks with Ol Margie which is tons better than a lot of 18 year olds do now days. He is a great kid to say the least and I'm proud he decided to ditch time on facebook to get around the campfire with fellow Woodyites!
On a side note:   He was prewarned that he would get electronically acquainted with some fine people and that he would also witness some of the biggest Aces in the land of cyberspace. He comes from a long line of thick skinned ole redneck boys that grew up hunting and fishing and loving the great outdoors.
Thanks to the real men on here who don't mind lending a finger or two to give a positve response to a duck killing, dove slaying, deer killing, turkey head mashing fish catching machine that I have created named ShellytheDuckSlayer! Yeah he's mine


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## Hairy Dawg (Jul 26, 2013)

Oh my! How have I missed this one?


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## backyardkennels (Jul 26, 2013)

Hairy Dawg said:


> Oh my! How have I missed this one?



What do you call tgat foo foo dog in ur pic


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennel,

What exactly is your experience with training dogs, specifically retrievers?


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## Joe Overby (Jul 26, 2013)

Tim, Jerry is a great man and a fine dog trainer. Enjoy your experience with him. Remember, it takes as long as it takes...dogs don't have timelines, can't read schedules, and don't care about your checkbook...


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 26, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> backyardkennel,
> 
> What exactly is your experience with training dogs, specifically retrievers?



I think I know who he is...but I aint gonna tell


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## backyardkennels (Jul 26, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> backyardkennel,
> 
> What exactly is your experience with training dogs, specifically retrievers?



I trained pit fo hogs, wanted to get into the duck dogs though. 

And what your?


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> I trained pit fo hogs, wanted to get into the duck dogs though.
> 
> And what your?



I would recommend doing A LOT more research and picking up a proven training program before you decide to get into retrievers. 

My experience is pretty limited. A friend of mine did the bulk of the work with my pup and she has turned out pretty good I think. With that being said, I didn't go trying to pick arguments with the likes of Mr. Overby over things I had no clue about. If you want to get into retrievers, there will be a point in time where you will need the help of some of these guys. Trust me on that.

Wasn't trying to call you out, just thought from your username you might be a trainer. A few other trainers already posted their credentials so I thought you may want to post yours since you were the opposing side.


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## ryano (Jul 26, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> With that being said, I didn't go trying to pick arguments with the likes of Mr. Overby over things I had no clue about. If you want to get into retrievers, there will be a point in time where you will need the help of some of these guys. Trust me on that.



A mighty stellar post from you Scramage. Im impressed.

Your dog is still a backyard bred mutt with sad eyes though.

Sincerely,

Gimp


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

ryano said:


> A mighty stellar post from you Scramage. Im impressed.
> 
> Your dog is still a backyard bred mutt with sad eyes though.
> 
> ...



She didn't get sad eyes until my jackleg trainer got a hold of her.


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## ryano (Jul 26, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> She didn't get sad eyes until my jackleg trainer got a hold of her.



I hear he is a mean man for sure. Poor Daisy


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

ryano said:


> I hear he is a mean man for sure. Poor Daisy



That's why Allie bit him.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 26, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> I would recommend doing A LOT more research and picking up a proven training program before you decide to get into retrievers.
> 
> My experience is pretty limited. A friend of mine did the bulk of the work with my pup and she has turned out pretty good I think. With that being said, I didn't go trying to pick arguments with the likes of Mr. Overby over things I had no clue about. If you want to get into retrievers, there will be a point in time where you will need the help of some of these guys. Trust me on that.
> 
> Wasn't trying to call you out, just thought from your username you might be a trainer. A few other trainers already posted their credentials so I thought you may want to post yours since you were the opposing side.



No arguin from me. Those guys seem to no whats goin on. Im not in to the trail dog thing, I just want meat dog. 

Not callin you out but, but I seen on other topics where you argued about stuff you didn't seem to no about. I do no waterfowlin.


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## ThunderRoad (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Not callin you out but, but I seen on other topics where you argued about stuff you didn't seem to no about. I do no waterfowlin.


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> No arguin from me. Those guys seem to no whats goin on. Im not in to the trail dog thing, I just want meat dog.
> 
> Not callin you out but, but I seen on other topics where you argued about stuff you didn't seem to no about. I do no waterfowlin.



The word is "know."


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## ryano (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> I just want meat dog.
> 
> .


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## dirtnap10 (Jul 26, 2013)

Supercracker said:


> Have you considered a Drahthaar?
> http://vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php



I got my dog from here and I will never own a different dog as long as I live. Get one from him!


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 26, 2013)

Never
As long as you live


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## dirtnap10 (Jul 26, 2013)

Turkey Trax said:


> Never
> As long as you live



Yeah that's what I said. But I don't do a ton of duck hunting


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## Hairy Dawg (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> What do you call tgat foo foo dog in ur pic



He's just a foo foo dog.


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## backyardkennels (Jul 26, 2013)

Hairy Dawg said:


> He's just a foo foo dog.



Well she is a cutie. My littl girl would love her


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

Hairy Dawg said:


> He's just a foo foo dog.





backyardkennels said:


> Well she is a cutie. My littl girl would love her


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## backyardkennels (Jul 26, 2013)

Well why male dog have fluffy curly hair, he should bite his owner for givin perm to him


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 26, 2013)

backyardkennels said:


> Well why male dog have fluffy curly hair, he should bite his owner for givin perm to him



That is pretty funny, I'll give you that


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## king killer delete (Jul 26, 2013)

*I sure know about college*



NUTT said:


> We are the proud owners of two beautiful GSP's that ShellytheDuckSlayer is talking about. They were purchased from a quality Kennel and both have great bloodllines which I did quite a bit of research on before our purchase because of the great advice from some great people on this forum.
> They are doing incredibly well for their age and we are fortunate to be able to spend time with them daily. They are doing well on commands like sit, whoa, stay, kennel, load up, and most importantly "HERE". Broke them from running deer this past week; I think; as they now just look at them(5 this evening) and stare. Both have been introduced to a Tritronics e collar and have responded well.
> In a few months and as money becomes available(ShellytheDuckSlayer has a sister who is 4.0 student at UGA that is costing me dearly) I plan on getting ShellytheDuckSlayer's pup, Marge with Mr. Jerry Day to begin training. I met Mr. Day this week and he is like a lot of you guys on this forum; willing to help newbies like us learn how to develop our passion for our new pets. StheDS starts college this fall and will have time to spend chasing ducks with Ol Margie which is tons better than a lot of 18 year olds do now days. He is a great kid to say the least and I'm proud he decided to ditch time on facebook to get around the campfire with fellow Woodyites!
> On a side note:   He was prewarned that he would get electronically acquainted with some fine people and that he would also witness some of the biggest Aces in the land of cyberspace. He comes from a long line of thick skinned ole redneck boys that grew up hunting and fishing and loving the great outdoors.
> Thanks to the real men on here who don't mind lending a finger or two to give a positve response to a duck killing, dove slaying, deer killing, turkey head mashing fish catching machine that I have created named ShellytheDuckSlayer! Yeah he's mine


 Cost the same at GSU and my daughter is a SR.


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## mschlapa (Jul 26, 2013)

I really didn't expect to get much love from the lab guys here but I just wanted to post a few pics of our dogs from some waterfowl hunts. We have hunted all over the South East,North East and Mid West with ours. Remember, waterfowl is only a portion of what we do with our dogs. Its not about what someone else says they are capable of, or does with them, but what we do year in and year out.  I am not talking about playing doggie games, show or therapy dogs. I am talking about hunting.


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## king killer delete (Jul 27, 2013)

*Nothing wrong with that*



mschlapa said:


> I really didn't expect to get much love from the lab guys here but I just wanted to post a few pics of our dogs from some waterfowl hunts. We have hunted all over the South East,North East and Mid West with ours. Remember, waterfowl is only a portion of what we do with our dogs. Its not about what someone else says they are capable of, or does with them, but what we do year in and year out.  I am not talking about playing doggie games, show or therapy dogs. I am talking about hunting.



Nice dog and a proven hunter. What more can you say.


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## mschlapa (Jul 27, 2013)

Thanks.


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## puddlehunter (Jul 27, 2013)

mschlapa said:


> What constitutes an American dog? Very few dogs originated in America



Chesapeake Bay Retriever


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## mschlapa (Jul 27, 2013)

Good answer good answer.  I was wondering how long it would take someone to name one. I thought I was going to have to give a history or geography lesson.


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## labradoodle (Jul 28, 2013)

enjoyable thread, we need more of this! I like labradoodles.


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## king killer delete (Jul 28, 2013)

*A good dog is a good dog.*

But don't  try to say  that another mans dog is better, If I was gona hunt up land game I would want a pointing dog. Now I grew up with bird dogs that would retrieve, I also grew up with retreivers and some muts. If Im going to hunt ducks Im gona hunt with a retriever. Im not gona hunt with a bird dog. Now I hunted upland birds and I had a dog that would pick up ducks sure I would use him. But just to come on a waterfowl forum and tell the lab folks or the golden folks or the chessy people that my dog was a better all round dog is not a smart thing to do. Yep Im a lab man and unlike most of you I have seen black dogs yes labs in combat and I got allot of time in combat.  Unlike most of you I have seen labs at a National Retreiver Championship. I was at some of the first hunt test. I like dogs all kinds But its like this if I was going down a muddy road to a hunting camp I would not want to be in a town car I would want to be in a 4 wheel drive truck. If was hunting quail in our fine state I would want to be behind a good pointer or a good GSP or a brit. But if I was in the sound right of the Atlantic ocean I would want to be hunting with a lab or a golden or a chessy. Allot of dogs will blood trail of a wounded deer  to include that rotten beagle that has no papers that is my avatar. Good luck to everybody with your dogs what ever kind you have.


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## mschlapa (Jul 28, 2013)

killer elite said:


> But don't  try to say  that another mans dog is better, If I was gona hunt up land game I would want a pointing dog. Now I grew up with bird dogs that would retrieve, I also grew up with retreivers and some muts. If Im going to hunt ducks Im gona hunt with a retriever. Im not gona hunt with a bird dog. Now I hunted upland birds and I had a dog that would pick up ducks sure I would use him. But just to come on a waterfowl forum and tell the lab folks or the golden folks or the chessy people that my dog was a better all round dog is not a smart thing to do. Yep Im a lab man and unlike most of you I have seen black dogs yes labs in combat and I got allot of time in combat.  Unlike most of you I have seen labs at a National Retreiver Championship. I was at some of the first hunt test. I like dogs all kinds But its like this if I was going down a muddy road to a hunting camp I would not want to be in a town car I would want to be in a 4 wheel drive truck. If was hunting quail in our fine state I would want to be behind a good pointer or a good GSP or a brit. But if I was in the sound right of the Atlantic ocean I would want to be hunting with a lab or a golden or a chessy. Allot of dogs will blood trail of a wounded deer  to include that rotten beagle that has no papers that is my avatar. Good luck to everybody with your dogs what ever kind you have.



Again I understand what you are saying and I too can appreciate any good working dog. I personally want to have one dog to hunt all types of game, that is my preference at this stage of my life and the reason I went with the DD. If all I did was waterfowl hunt I would have another lab myself. I have hunted the Sound as well as the big rivers of the North East with my dogs a few times and it is much more challenging than anywhere else I have hunted in this country.

 I realize this is a waterfowl forum but the OP asked a question, what is the best all around bird dog? I personally don't consider the lab a bird dog, they are a retriever. Maybe other people have a different definition of bird dog? I guess technically a duck is a bird and some folks use them for flushing pheasants so that argument could be made.  I also don't consider my DD bird dogs either. I hunt everything from dove, upland and waterfowl  to small furred game and varmints to large game like boar and bear along with the occasional blood tracking call. If all I did was bird hunt a few times a year I too would own a pointer.

I LIKE LABS AND HAVE OWNED SEVERAL. I have been to the national retriever championships. Most recently in Demopolis AL and I have see the top level dogs in action. It is very impressive how well they are trained and handled to the game.

I would like to meet and do some training with some of you guys that aren't to far away. Maybe I could pick up a few pointers on some retriever training techniques that would be useful for us. Any takers?


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## Joe Overby (Jul 28, 2013)

Any time.  We dont discriminate...boykins, goldens, chessies, and labs...just come with an open mind.  We will do the same.  Anyone willing to learn is always welcome.


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## Turkey Trax (Jul 28, 2013)

Just no poodles.


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## T Tolbert (Jul 28, 2013)

I'm thinking about a Poodle and I'm wanting to run him in seasoned test this spring. That's plenty of time to get him going. 

See you fellas at the ribbon pinning


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## king killer delete (Jul 29, 2013)

killen me


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## nhancedsvt (Jul 29, 2013)

T Tolbert said:


> I'm thinking about a Poodle and I'm wanting to run him in seasoned test this spring. That's plenty of time to get him going.
> 
> See you fellas at the ribbon pinning



You would be the one to get a poodle


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## fish hawk (Jul 13, 2014)

Wiemers6909 said:


> I have been thinking of getting a bird dog that will be good in the field and in the water. I owned a Brittany as a family pet when I was growing up, great dog very smart but refused to listen no matter how much you worked with her. So I've read a lot of great things about standard poodles. Anybody know how they are about cross training? Also any good trainers around Athens ga?



So what dog did you settle on?


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