# Coach Paul Johnson To Auburn?



## Mossyoak77 (Dec 6, 2008)

Pat Forde just said on Gameday that Auburn was going to Interview CPJ.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 6, 2008)

Did they say "interview" or he's a "candidate"? Big difference.  I hear his name is really heating up around Auburn. Dan Radakovich is gonna have to redo his contract and come up with a pay raise. Ole Miss just raised Nutt's salary to at least $2.5 million a year after his name was linked to Auburn. I want to hear what CPJ has to say, he is supposively in Tampa for the ACC Championship game.


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## Buck (Dec 6, 2008)

Auburn better hurry up and get him before ND does...


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## TurkeyCreek (Dec 6, 2008)

He didn't say he was gonna interview. He said that CPJ was on AU's wishlist.

Why isn't Mark Richt's name mentioned for any of these openings?? Doesn't anyone want him?????


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 6, 2008)

TurkeyCreek said:


> He didn't say he was gonna interview. He said that CPJ was on AU's wishlist.



Exactly what I thought Mike. CPJ hasn't even responded to any of this. He turned down more money to come to Tech. Why are folks so sure he'd be interested in another job. You can bet that Dan Radakovich will offer him plenty to stay if it comes to that.


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## bilgerat (Dec 6, 2008)

TurkeyCreek said:


> Why isn't Mark Richt's name mentioned for any of these openings?? Doesn't anyone want him?????



He'd cost too much


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## Mossyoak77 (Dec 6, 2008)

I hope you guys are right!! I've spoke with some Tech contributors and they claim he couldn't if he wanted w/o AD permission. You always hate to hear your coach mentioned in talks like this.


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## Mossyoak77 (Dec 6, 2008)

Is Fulmer and Bowden taking a year off?


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## Mechanicaldawg (Dec 6, 2008)

Mossyoak77 said:


> Is Fulmer and Bowden taking a year off?



At least!


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## cobb (Dec 8, 2008)

CPJ isn't going anywhere-


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## AU Bassman (Dec 8, 2008)

When CPJ was asked about the AU job he sure didn't say anything negative, just that he was preparing for a bowl game and out recruiting for GT. I for one would sure love to have him at AU. Be assured he is on the short list. I would doubt he leaves after one year, but stranger things have happened. AU's AD has been qouted as saying money was no object in the search for a head coach. One of the members of the board at AU is the owner of colonial bank in alabama.I expect them to make someone very wealthy in the next week or so. It's a buisness. Whoever ponies up the most bucks gets what they want to a degree. My buddy is a huge Tech fan and this situation is driving him crazy. I kinda like it though.


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## greene_dawg (Dec 8, 2008)

TurkeyCreek said:


> He didn't say he was gonna interview. He said that CPJ was on AU's wishlist.
> 
> Why isn't Mark Richt's name mentioned for any of these openings?? Doesn't anyone want him?????



Can you say Miami and FSU???


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## jdgator (Dec 8, 2008)

Yeah. Richt is going to FSU when papa bowden kicks the bucket. You mark my words...


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## LanierSpots (Dec 8, 2008)

I dont think its a good chance for him there.  Auburn is going to comit to the spread now I believe.  I think they know they need to change and they will try it again.  At this point I just dont know what I would want if it were me.  The spread offense is catching on and look at the two NC contenders.  Both running the spread.

Personally, I would not want the triple lindy option at Auburn.  I just dont think it would work day in and day out  in the SEC.  It is hard to defend at first but once the teams got use to it, I really believe they would stop it.  Nothing against him, he is obviously doing a great job with it now.

I have seen atleast 10 names mentioned for the Auburn job.  I really dont think theyhave a clue at this point

Good luck to CPJ in the bowl.  LSU is not that strong this year but could be a tough task.  Depending on which team shows up for both teams.


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## Hunter Blair (Dec 8, 2008)

jdgator said:


> Yeah. Richt is going to FSU when papa bowden kicks the bucket. You mark my words...



i doubt that one....


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## SKINNERZ71 (Dec 8, 2008)

Jody Hawk said:


> He turned down more money to come to Tech.


why???


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

I think PJ can be quoted saying somewhere that he has only put in35% of his O.   I believe we will see a much more diverse O next year... and no PJ wouldn't go to Auburn.  At best would be a lateral move for him.


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## Browning Slayer (Dec 9, 2008)

cobb said:


> CPJ isn't going anywhere-


 
For GT's sake I hope not... Not to mention we've got to beat him next year so we need for him to stick around..


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 9, 2008)

SKINNERZ71 said:


> why???



SMU offered him $2 million a year. He's making $1.6 million at Tech.


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## Lee (Dec 9, 2008)

I bet when this is all said and done, Paul Johnson will be making over 2 million somewhere, hopefully at Tech.


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## MudDucker (Dec 9, 2008)

Auburn can't afford him ... man someone is deep into the crack.  Tech is the school with the most financial problems, not Auburn.

Having said that, I don't PJ is the type of fellow who would jump ship after only one year.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> and no PJ wouldn't go to Auburn.  At best would be a lateral move for him.



i agree with you that pj will not be going to auburn, but it would not be a lateral move "at best" for him.  it would be a step up to a historically better team (last 10 years) in a better overall conference.  what this season did for pj was just get him more money, a longer contract and i imagine a more hefty buyout.  i think pj will probably stay at tech for quite a while.


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## greene_dawg (Dec 9, 2008)

Jody Hawk said:


> SMU offered him $2 million a year. He's making $1.6 million at Tech.



SMU is not Auburn. If he leaves GT it will be for a program that has more support, more funding, more passionate fanbase, and is easier to recruit to. Not saying he'll leave for Auburn after just one year at GT, but Auburn has an advantage over GT in all of those areas. As I mentioned in a thread a week or so ago and got blasted by all of you GT fans... If PJ wins on a regular basis at GT, bigger and bigger programs will come knocking and GT will have to figure out to break the cycle of being a coaching stepping stone like they were with Curry, Ross, and O'Leary.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

rex upshaw said:


> i agree with you that pj will not be going to auburn, but it would not be a lateral move "at best" for him.  it would be a step up to a historically better team (last 10 years) in a better overall conference.  what this season did for pj was just get him more money, a longer contract and i imagine a more hefty buyout.  i think pj will probably stay at tech for quite a while.



It is funny you say that.  In the last 10 years both teams have the same number of NC's.  Auburn has one conference title, while GT beat them head to head twice.  I would call that a draw/GT lean.


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 9, 2008)

I think Auburns program as a whole is better than GTs over the last 10 years, but that is simply my opinion


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

greene_dawg said:


> SMU is not Auburn. If he leaves GT it will be for a program that has more support, more funding, more passionate fanbase, and is easier to recruit to. Not saying he'll leave for Auburn after just one year at GT, but Auburn has an advantage over GT in all of those areas. As I mentioned in a thread a week or so ago and got blasted by all of you GT fans... If PJ wins on a regular basis at GT, bigger and bigger programs will come knocking and GT will have to figure out to break the cycle of being a coaching stepping stone like they were with Curry, Ross, and O'Leary.



You are correct.  Looks like Notre Dame is heading in that direction.  Good thing GT now had an AD that knows what he is doing.  
If you want my take on it.  CPJ coaches GT for 6-8 more years and then retires.


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## rex upshaw (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> It is funny you say that.  In the last 10 years both teams have the same number of NC's.  Auburn has one conference title, while GT beat them head to head twice.  I would call that a draw/GT lean.



look at the number of wins in a better conference.  if a top tier coach was available, with all the money being the same, do you think he would choose tech or auburn?


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

BlackSmoke said:


> I think Auburns program as a whole is better than GTs over the last 10 years, but that is simply my opinion



Of course you do your a UGA fan.  If you had beat auburn 7 times in a row you would think diff.


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## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> It is funny you say that.  In the last 10 years both teams have the same number of NC's.  Auburn has one conference title, while GT beat them head to head twice.  I would call that a draw/GT lean.



Boy, you jacket fans hang your hat on anything you can.  The last 11 times Au and GT have played, Au is 9-2.   I will take that.  

No offense to Coach Johnson.  He did a great job at GT this year and made a huge impact.  But, I personally want to see a spread offense at Auburn at some point to go with their steady defense.   Not a option offense. 

As far as the programs being equal, are you kidding me?  Look at the records and the conferences they play in.  Look at the year end rankings.  Not even close.

I think Johnson will be a tech for a few years for sure.  If he has continued sucess, he will move on just as others have said.

GT had a great football season this year and made some huge strides but it doesnt change the fact that they have not been that strong in recent years.  Just as Auburn fell apart this season, they have been a much better football team over the past 10 years.


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## greene_dawg (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> You are correct.  Looks like Notre Dame is heading in that direction.  Good thing GT now had an AD that knows what he is doing.
> If you want my take on it.  CPJ coaches GT for 6-8 more years and then retires.



You may be right. Only time will tell.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> Boy, you jacket fans hang your hat on anything you can.  The last 11 times Au and GT have played, Au is 9-2.   I will take that.
> 
> No offense to Coach Johnson.  He did a great job at GT this year and made a huge impact.  But, I personally want to see a spread offense at Auburn at some point to go with their steady defense.   Not a option offense.
> 
> ...




The guy said the last 10 years not me.  It is not my fault GT-Aub do not play every year.  The only fair assesment that can be made is the team that won the only 2 games in the last 10 years gets credit for that.  If you don't like it you should have beat us.  

Question... who would you want to work for
                                   GT
already won the fan base, have a team full of sophmores and freshman,  just  off a win over their rival, coach is getting a new contract.
                                   or
                                   Aub.
School that has tried to interview other coaches when their coach was successful, just canned their coach and lied about it, has a well known booster screwing with everything in the AA.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

boys... a history lesson.

The situations of Curry, Ross, and O'Leary are very very different from CPJ's.  Let's look at each one:

1) Curry's GT teams were terrible.  He was not getting good recruits and the Athletic Department was not sold out to football, as GT was an extremely basketball focused school.  Curry was winning 1 or 2 games a year at GT.  He left for Alabama, which was the exact opposite of GT in every respect.  He wasn't that good of a coach and he still went to Bama and went 7-5, 9-3, and 10-2 and won an SEC Championship.  Was he a different coach at Bama?  Nope.  Just got a ton of better players.  The like a moron, he left for UK and Stalling won a NC with his players.

Paul Johnson's GT teams are not and will not be terrible.  He can get the recruits to GT now to make him competitive in the league and even in the country.  GT will most likely be in the top 10 or 15 in the BCS all year next year and very possibly win the ACC.

2) Bobby Ross won a National Championship at GT and then went to the big bucks of the NFL. 

No NFL team is going to be calling Paul Johnson anytime very soon.

3) George O'Leary was very successful at GT winning the ACC and having a runner-up to the Heisman Trophy.  He beat UGA 3 years in a row.  However, it was no secret that Notre Dame was his dream job and when the chance came, he took it.

What is CPJ's dream job?  A school where he can win a National title.  He's already there at GT.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 9, 2008)

Didn't Auburn try to get O'leary and he used it to get a better contract?


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## greene_dawg (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> boys... a history lesson.
> 
> The situations of Curry, Ross, and O'Leary are very very different from CPJ's.  Let's look at each one:
> 
> ...



One thing that they all had in common, when a top job came along... they jumped. There hasn't been a coach at GT who had ANY success in our lifetime that didn't leave for a brighter spotlight. That is a fact that can't be disputed. Will PJ do the same at some point? Don't know, but if he doesn't he will be the first that we've witnessed.


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## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

Auburn has had three coaches in the past 30 years.  I think that is a very good record compared to GT who is on their 8th coach.  Sounds like Auburns coaches are usually pretty happy there.

Bowl records

Auburn has won 6 of the last 9 including a BCS bowl win

GT has won 3 of the last 9, losing 4 in a row and their three wins were against Syacuse,Tulsa and Stanford.  No BCS bowl games played

Auburns ranking since 2000 was 13th.  Georgia Techs is 25th

Records since 2000
Au - 80-34
GT - 70-45

Even with Auburns aweful year this year, they still have won 10 more games in a much harder conference.   

Auburn also had a undefeated SEC season and GT is having its best year this year.

I dont know.  IF it were me, Id rather be on the Plains but thats just me.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Didn't Auburn try to get O'leary and he used it to get a better contract?



Yes, he said one time that he might be interested in the Auburn job before Tubberville was hired.


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## greene_dawg (Dec 9, 2008)

I think that the AU job is certainly better than the GT job but not enough of a difference for PJ to abandon a years worth of work.


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 9, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Of course you do your a UGA fan.  If you had beat auburn 7 times in a row you would think diff.



yes I am a GA fan, but that has nothing to do with which school has a better football program. We play both teams every year. Im going on what I have seen from Auburn over the last 10 years vs what I have seen from Tech


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## OL' Square Britches (Dec 9, 2008)

*Cpj*

CPJ is going to the Detroit Lions Yeah right-us Dawg fans wish


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 9, 2008)

OL' Square Britches said:


> CPJ is going to the Detroit Lions Yeah right-us Dawg fans wish



HAHA yea we do!


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

greene_dawg said:


> One thing that they all had in common, when a top job came along... they jumped. There hasn't been a coach at GT who had ANY success in our lifetime that didn't leave for a brighter spotlight. That is a fact that can't be disputed. Will PJ do the same at some point? Don't know, but if he doesn't he will be the first that we've witnessed.



but the distance between GT and one of those "top jobs" was huge... its not anymore.

a bad GT or Bama?
GT or NFL?
GT or ND (dream job)?

those are no-brainers.  but GT is not as bad as it was for Curry, the NFL is very unlikely for CPJ, and he doesn't really have a dream job.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 9, 2008)

Who the heck would want to go to Auburn and work with those cronies anyway? Folks see how they did Tubs. The man coaches them to a 13-0 season and 4 years later he's forced out.  CPJ and Dan Radakovich appear to have a good working relationship and it would shock me if he left.


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 9, 2008)

Jody Hawk said:


> Who the heck would want to go to Auburn and work with those cronies anyway? *Folks see how they did Tubs. The man coaches them to a 13-0 season and 4 years later he's forced out. * CPJ and Dan Radakovich appear to have a good working relationship and it would shock me if he left.



Amen on that Jody. Thats the same logic I use to those Dawg fans that want CMR gone

And I agree, I dont see CPJ leaving anytime soon. He seems to love where he is at and his team responded to him well this year


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## greene_dawg (Dec 9, 2008)

I agree Doc but I also think that you might be inflating the GT job just a little. I don't know what GT's budget is for football but I'd guess it is not in the top 30. In all of the conversation I've heard on TV and the radio about the top CFB jobs in the country I can honestly say that I have never hear Georgia Tech mentioned. The facilities are maybe a little above middle of the road as far as BCS schools go and overall fan support is pretty slim. Let's face it, head football coaches have huge ego's and I'd venture to say that PJ's is among the biggest of them all. Will it be enough that he is at a place where he can win or when a job with more prestige comes knocking will he want that? Like I said, who knows? We can go around and around until the cows come home but if PJ keeps winning at GT you can bet your last dollar that a higher paying job, with more prestige, larger stadium, more fan support, better facilities, that is easier to recruit to will come calling and GT fans had better hope that he is as loyal to GT as y'all think he is.


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## OL' Square Britches (Dec 9, 2008)

*Cpj*

CPJ to my Redskins.............please Just kiddin...got to give CJZ a chance...but i do think jason C. is not the answer at QB-he just doesn't make good choices with the Ball in his hands--maybe give Colt Brennen a chance to sling that Pineapple-he sure lit it up earlier when he got a chance. I don't think CPJ would have any problem telling the Million dollor Baby to get a fire lit down under.


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## AU Bassman (Dec 9, 2008)

greene_dawg said:


> I agree Doc but I also think that you might be inflating the GT job just a little. I don't know what GT's budget is for football but I'd guess it is not in the top 30. In all of the conversation I've heard on TV and the radio about the top CFB jobs in the country I can honestly say that I have never hear Georgia Tech mentioned. The facilities are maybe a little above middle of the road as far as BCS schools go and overall fan support is pretty slim. Let's face it, head football coaches have huge ego's and I'd venture to say that PJ's is among the biggest of them all. Will it be enough that he is at a place where he can win or when a job with more prestige comes knocking will he want that? Like I said, who knows? We can go around and around until the cows come home but if PJ keeps winning at GT you can bet your last dollar that a higher paying job, with more prestige, larger stadium, more fan support, better facilities, that is easier to recruit to will come calling and GT fans had better hope that he is as loyal to GT as y'all think he is.



Loyalty? You had better check yourself if you believe in that! CPJ is at tech at the most two more years. AU might not get him this year,but if he keeps winning he will be gone from Tech in short order. When that offer comes to the tune of 2.8 to 3.2 mil a year he will take the money and run. Can you blame him or any one else for that matter?


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## troutman34 (Dec 9, 2008)

CPJ has ties to GA.  His wife is from N. Carolina.  Tech should and hopefully will pony up the $2 Mil and be done with it.  He will not leave anytime soon, if at all.  

Auburn just forced out one of the best coaches in the game.  He is the best coach to ever coach at Auburn and they forced the man out????  They just let "their man" go.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

AU Bassman said:


> Loyalty? You had better check yourself if you believe in that! CPJ is at tech at the most two more years. AU might not get him this year,but if he keeps winning he will be gone from Tech in short order. When that offer comes to the tune of 2.8 to 3.2 mil a year he will take the money and run. Can you blame him or any one else for that matter?



yeah I can blame him.  If we're paying him 2+ mil a year, which we most likely will be after this year, then I dont think he runs for 2.8.  you can be cynical all you like, but I dont think he'll be running.

you folks act like Georgia Tech is East Carolina or Middle Tennessee State or something.


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## Danuwoa (Dec 9, 2008)

I don't think PJ will leave any time soon.  Down the line who knows?  Nobody should ever get too comfortable with their coach this day and time.  If Jimbo is enticed away from FSU for a big payday and an automatic shot to be haed coach (does anybody believe that Bowden will leave as long as he can drag himself out there?), I definitely think there is a danger of CMR returning to Tally when Dadgummit retires.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> What is CPJ's dream job?  A school where he can win a National title.  He's already there at GT.



I really don't see CPJ leaving GT anytime soon.

But I also don't see him winning a National Championship with Tech either.  He may get to the game, but don't see him winning it.

Trying not to be biased, but I think Tech's NC days are long behind them.  Maybe they can get there again, but it's not going to be over night.  I absolutely think Tech can become a contender for the ACC on a regular basis.  I'll wait and see what CPJ does with his offense over the next few years before believing they're a NC contender.  It's possible, but I don't see it.  Yet.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> I really don't see CPJ leaving GT anytime soon.
> 
> But I also don't see him winning a National Championship with Tech either.  He may get to the game, but don't see him winning it.
> 
> Trying not to be biased, but I think Tech's NC days are long behind them.  Maybe they can get there again, but it's not going to be over night.  I absolutely think Tech can become a contender for the ACC on a regular basis.  I'll wait and see what CPJ does with his offense over the next few years before believing they're a NC contender.  It's possible, but I don't see it.  Yet.



I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.  

We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.

Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?


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## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.
> 
> We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.
> 
> Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?



I think you guys would have to go undefeated to have any type of chance.  If you are a one loss team, you would be over looked by other one loss teams.  There are just too many one loss teams these days.  Look at this years finishes and see if you could have played for the NC with one loss

If the ACC gets stronger, it will help you guys but as long as your Conference champion was ranked #25 during the championship game, it weakens the schedule.. 

If GT can go undefeated and show some muscle, they would have a chance to play for the NC if there were no other undefeated teams.  Depending on which media favorites were also undefeated


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> I think you guys would have to go undefeated to have any type of chance.  If you are a one loss team, you would be over looked by other one loss teams.  There are just too many one loss teams these days.  Look at this years finishes and see if you could have played for the NC with one loss
> 
> If the ACC gets stronger, it will help you guys but as long as your Conference champion was ranked #25 during the championship game, it weakens the schedule..
> 
> If GT can go undefeated and show some muscle, they would have a chance to play for the NC if there were no other undefeated teams.  Depending on which media favorites were also undefeated



you realize there is only one 3-loss team ranked above us?  and its Oklahoma State, whose 3 losses are to #1 Texas, #2 Texas Tech, and #3 Oklahoma.

Its time to drop the ACC is not a good conference crap.  Its just not true this year, and that might just continue.  Like it or not, the computers take into account the Sagarin ratings and the ACC is the highest rated conference in the country.


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## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

So, if Georgia Tech had one loss this season, which of these teams would you be ranked higher than in your opinion?  Even if you were the ACC champs?

USC,Texas,OU,Penn State,Florida,Texas Tech or Alabama

Im not downing the ACC.  Just stating facts.


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## riprap (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> you realize there is only one 3-loss team ranked above us?  and its Oklahoma State, whose 3 losses are to #1 Texas, #2 Texas Tech, and #3 Oklahoma.
> 
> Its time to drop the ACC is not a good conference crap.  Its just not true this year, and that might just continue.  Like it or not, the computers take into account the Sagarin ratings and the ACC is the highest rated conference in the country.



Didn't we say the BCS is screwed up?


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> So, if Georgia Tech had one loss this season, which of these teams would you be ranked higher than in your opinion?  Even if you were the ACC champs?
> 
> USC,Texas,OU,Penn State,Florida,Texas Tech or Alabama
> 
> Im not downing the ACC.  Just stating facts.



I dont think we'd be ranked ahead of them... but only one of them can go.  Texas, USC, PSU, TT, and Bama would all be _just as left out as we are._  Is it because of their conference?  Nope.

GT has wins over 2 BCS ranked teams right now, #15 UGA and #24 BC.They also have a narrow loss on the road to #19 VT which happens to be the Conference Champ.

For comparison, Alabama has wins over 2 ranked teams right now, #25 Ole Miss and #15 UGA, whom GT also beat, though not as badly.  They also have a loss in the Champ game to #2 UF.

Where is the big difference here?  If VT were our only loss this year, I think we'd be right there with Bama, except for the fact that we probably would have won our conference.  The only difference is who we lost to, #19 or #2.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

more:  

Penn State has a win over 2 BCS ranked teams, as well, #18 Michigan State and #10 Ohio State.  They lost to unranked Iowa.

USC has a win over two BCS ranked teams, #10 Ohio St and #17 Oregon.  They lost to unranked Oregon State.

Florida and Oklahoma are easily the best 1 loss teams in the country and are rightly in the NC game.  The best of the rest are fairly even so you look at SOS.  ACC is #1 rated Sagarin.  Big XII is #2 and SEC is #3.


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## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

But you dodged my question and you made my point.  You can make a point for GT to be ranked high if they only had one loss but they would probally never play for a NC unless they were undefeated.  That was what we were talking about. 

If you look at the one loss teams on the board, GT would not be ranked ahead of any of them if they had only loss to one team.  Of course that depends on when they had that loss but with the media favorites, you would need to be undefeated as of now.  If the ACC can send a team to the NC in some day soon, it would help but the media is down on the ACC and it does not help you

I checked out the computer rankings and 4 of the 6 computers have Geogia ranked way ahead of Gt.   Though you barely squeezed them out in the average, the computers seem to like Georgia better than tech.  Odd


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 9, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> But you dodged my question and you made my point.  You can make a point for GT to be ranked high if they only had one loss but they would probally never play for a NC unless they were undefeated.  That was what we were talking about.
> 
> If you look at the one loss teams on the board, GT would not be ranked ahead of any of them if they had only loss to one team.  Of course that depends on when they had that loss but with the media favorites, you would need to be undefeated as of now.  If the ACC can send a team to the NC in some day soon, it would help but the media is down on the ACC and it does not help you
> 
> I checked out the computer rankings and 4 of the 6 computers have Geogia ranked way ahead of Gt.   Though you barely squeezed them out in the average, the computers seem to like Georgia better than tech.  Odd


its not odd... its downright stupid.

in 2 years if the ACC keeps ascending, which it definitely is doing right now, a 1 loss team from the ACC would be right in the hunt with the rest of the guys.

you are correct that we are not media darlings right now, but CPJ gets a lot of good press and if he has a team with one loss at the end of the season I think you'd be surprised where we'd be ranked.


----------



## Buzz (Dec 9, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> But you dodged my question and you made my point.  You can make a point for GT to be ranked high if they only had one loss but they would probally never play for a NC unless they were undefeated.  That was what we were talking about.
> 
> If you look at the one loss teams on the board, GT would not be ranked ahead of any of them if they had only loss to one team.  Of course that depends on when they had that loss but with the media favorites, you would need to be undefeated as of now.  If the ACC can send a team to the NC in some day soon, it would help but the media is down on the ACC and it does not help you
> 
> I checked out the computer rankings and 4 of the 6 computers have Geogia ranked way ahead of Gt.   Though you barely squeezed them out in the average, the computers seem to like Georgia better than tech.  Odd



You sure you checked the right week Lanier?   I checked the ones listed at this site http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/rankings and Tech was ranked ahead of UGA in 4 of the 6.   USA Today had some numbers listed where UGA did lead in the computer numbers, but the numbers did not match what was on the websites of the computer polls listed.

Sagarin (GT 12, UGA 17)
Wolfe (GT 15,  UGA 17)
Massey (GT 11, UGA 18)
Billingsley (GT 14, UGA 15)
Anderson (UGA 13, GT 16)
Matrix (UGA 13, GT 16)

Tech's computer average was .470 compared to .420 for UGA so I have to believe the numbers I posted are accurate and the ones USA Today posted are incorrect.


----------



## LanierSpots (Dec 9, 2008)

You are correct Buzz.  I thought it was weird.  I looked at the ESPN BCS rankings and misread the scores.  I forgot that lower scores are bad.  LOL>  4 of the 6 has GT ranked higher which they should be.  

 GT     -----    14 10 12 10 15 14 11 .470 
Georgia      15 13 11 13  8    9    9 .420 


25 is good.    1 is bad   

My bad


----------



## Buzz (Dec 9, 2008)

Oh - it's just funny if you think about it.   How ridiculous is the concept of "computer rankings?"  I still shake my head thinking that these polls and computer geeks are the way we determine a National Champion.   I can't keep up with how all these darn numbers are computed.     Just imagine how great a playoff would be.


----------



## irishleprechaun (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.
> 
> We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.
> 
> Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?




I think you are right...being in the ACC is the easiest path to a NC if undefeated.  Less competition year over year...ACC and Big 10 are paths of least resistance to the title game...if you can run the table.


----------



## Jody Hawk (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Its time to drop the ACC is not a good conference crap.



Amen Doc !!!!!!!!! The ACC put 10 of it's 12 schools in bowl games this season. More than any other conference.


----------



## Jody Hawk (Dec 9, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.
> 
> We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.
> 
> Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?




Good post Doc !!!! The road to a national championship is much easier in the ACC. I agree, folks don't realize just how close this team came to going undefeated. CPJ knows if he can coach Tech to an undefeated season, he's more than likely in the title game.


----------



## irishleprechaun (Dec 9, 2008)

no doubt your conference had a better than normal year....parity is becoming more of a factor in CF, now more than ever...


I still can't believe an undefeated Boise State doesn't get a BCS, especially after what they did to Oklahoma last year.


----------



## chewie1014 (Dec 9, 2008)

Never said the ACC was bad...even said GT might make it to the NC game, though would not likely win it.

The ACC is not the easiest route to the NC.  That title belongs to the Big East...developing programs and no conference championship game.  WVU would have been there last year before they tripped over Pitt - and even with their one loss, wasn't a top five program.

The ACC is a solid conference, but not quite a powerhouse.  Putting 10 of its teams in bowls proves it.  Three weeks before the season ends, 7 or 8 ACC teams still had a legit shot at the conference title.  And it wasn't because 7 or 8 teams were great teams winning big games.  It was because no one stepped up to the plate and played consistent ball.  The ACC was the definition of inconsistency all year.  I'm singing GT's praises all year as the the class of the ACC only to see them whipped by UNC who then lost to NCSU.  Duke manhandled UV who beat GT.  VT couldn't do much of anything but got lucky fumbles against GT and UNC and barely scored an offensive TD against Duke.  Duke gives games away to WFU and NCSU.  And Clemson stunk.  FSU and UM couldn't figure what team it wanted to play any given Saturday.

The ACC is going through some growing pains while it shuffles out it's top-tier programs.  I personally think Clemson, Miami, FSU, and VT will all return to form in short order.  There's not much room for too many more programs at the top...UNC will be there if Butch Davis hangs around, really leaving room for one more.  GT could be that team, but so could UV and NCSU.  So, once this blip on the radar is over, I think GT will be a really good program that can win the ACC from time to time.  They could play for a NC and maybe even win it.

I don't think it will be with CPJ.  And I've said it before...unless CPJ develops a passing game to complement that triple option spread of his, he won't win it with anyone.

OH...and since it's out there...Tech IS NOT a one-loss team.  They're a three-loss team.  So would've, should've, could've all you want.

And so you know, I fully believe GT is the best team in the ACC this year.  Whether or not they stay at the top is not up to CPJ...it's up the school and whether they're willing to commit the resources to continue developing and growing the program.  If they don't, GT will be replaced in short order by other programs that will and already are committing those resources.  I personally, even as a Dawg, hope they do.  I'd love to see Tech back in the hunt.  I pull for Tech every Saturday but one...and that's the one after Thanksgiving.


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## Marks500 (Dec 9, 2008)

This is all crazy talk...lol


----------



## DBM78 (Dec 10, 2008)

Yall tech fans crack me up. Just cause you beat UGA by 3 points this year you think your going to NCG next year. Oh and  to whoever said GT almost went undefeted this year yeah right GT had 30 fumbles this year and got lucky to beat FSU and Gardner Webb thought we forgot about that. I thought UGA fans were bad but all of these techies walking around with their chest out like they done something LOL. The more these teams ACC/UGA Coaches see this offense the more they will adjust and get more famlier with it the less effective it will be. There was a reason Paul Johnson was at Army and not a big time school before GT came calling. It is a high school offense now I'm not saying it won't work its been working for 50 years. Sorry if it sounds like I banging on Tech but these GT fan have came out of the woodwork after the UGA win.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 10, 2008)

look back and you'll see that it was not a GT fan that brought up the "what if y'all were a one loss team" thing.

DBM, there are so many things wrong with your post that it doesnt even really bear responding to.  No GT fans are coming out of the woodwork.  Look at our profiles.  We've been here for a long time.  You're the one who just showed up.


----------



## DBM78 (Dec 10, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.
> 
> We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.
> 
> Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?



You say GT could be sitting here with one loss. I see it different. You could be sitting here with a 6-6 with added lost of Garner Webb, FSU and UGA. Your logic works both ways. You beat Garner Webb by a field goal FSU fumbled the ball in the endzone and you trailed UGA and came back to win by 3. "THATS SCARY CLOSE"


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 10, 2008)

-GW was played without either of the 2 QB's that can actually run the system.  This game has beaten into the ground this year.  It is obviously a statistical outlier compared to the rest of the season.  Its called an anomaly.  In science, anomalies are most often ignored when compared to a larger body of evidence.

-FSU was well on its way to being out of reach when Josh Nesbitt got hurt.  Plus, hitting a player and causing him to fumble is a good way to win games.  That's what we did to FSU... no shame in that.  The fumbles that cost us games were not where the other team made good plays and hit us... they were boneheaded plays like muffing punts and snaps and pitches.  Some fumbles can't be cured with better execution, like the FSU fumble, but some can, like most of GT's.

-We flat out came out of the locker room after halftime and just beat UGA.  No fluke about that.

-Virginia Tech was beaten until the personal foul helmet to helmet which extended their drive.  That's not even debatable.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 10, 2008)

DBM78 said:


> There was a reason Paul Johnson was at Army and not a big time school before GT came calling.



Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? First, he was at Navy not Army. Second, he worked his way up just like alot of great coaches have. The fact that he was at Navy has no bearing on him as a coach or his offense's effectiveness. If anything, it shows what a great coach he is. Winning 10 games in a season at a service academy speaks for itself. You know, Urban Meyer didn't exactly jump straight to the big ranks either.


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## LanierSpots (Dec 10, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> --Virginia Tech was beaten until the personal foul helmet to helmet which extended their drive.  That's not even debatable.



You should never do the "What ifs".  You always have more working against you than for you.  What if, Georgia would not have laid down at half.  What if Gardner Webb would have made one more score. Bla bla bla..

Auburn lost 5 games this year by a total of 21 points.   Lots of What ifs there.

You had a good season.  You were not a contender.   Just hope you can finally win a bowl game.   One the books, you should kill LSU.  They got took to the wood shed by Ga and you "Whipped" (according to the tech fans) Georgia so it should be a blow out.  They are just a mid grade SEC 5 loss team this year.

Should be no problem

Good luck


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## dixiejacket (Dec 10, 2008)

*Paul Johnson*



DBM78 said:


> Yall tech fans crack me up. Just cause you beat UGA by 3 points this year you think your going to NCG next year. Oh and  to whoever said GT almost went undefeted this year yeah right GT had 30 fumbles this year and got lucky to beat FSU and Gardner Webb thought we forgot about that. I thought UGA fans were bad but all of these techies walking around with their chest out like they done something LOL. The more these teams ACC/UGA Coaches see this offense the more they will adjust and get more famlier with it the less effective it will be. There was a reason Paul Johnson was at Army and not a big time school before GT came calling. It is a high school offense now I'm not saying it won't work its been working for 50 years. Sorry if it sounds like I banging on Tech but these GT fan have came out of the woodwork after the UGA win.



My God man, if you are going to argue a point, at least have your facts.  GT lost 18 fumbles this year.  In addition, we threw 6 interceptions.  Conversely, we recovered 11 fumbles and intercepted 18 passes.  Our takeaway ratio was +5.  So don't make such a big deal over "30" fumbles. And by the way, Paul Johnson never coached Army.  Get your facts straight and then come calling.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 10, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> You should never do the "What ifs".  You always have more working against you than for you.  What if, Georgia would not have laid down at half.  What if Gardner Webb would have made one more score. Bla bla bla..
> 
> Auburn lost 5 games this year by a total of 21 points.   Lots of What ifs there.
> 
> ...



if someone had not asked the question "if you guys were a 1-loss team do you think you'd be ranked ahead of USC, PSU, Bama, etc" I never would have brought any of that up.

and yes, I do think we'll beat LSU and we should win it pretty convincingly.


----------



## LanierSpots (Dec 10, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didnt say we were a NC contender.  I said he has a chance of winning a NC at GT.  Why?  Because we're in a BCS conference and if we go undefeated or even turn in a 1 loss season, we'll be right there.
> 
> We were scary close to a 1 loss season this year.  VT game came down to fumbles and a poor personal foul call.  The UVA game also came down to a fumble.  Heck, even the UNC game, which we were soundly beaten in, was within reach until a 4th quarter fumble.
> 
> Do you think PJ could win a NC somewhere else?  Why?




Here is the first time the "Tech can go to a national championship if they were a one loss team" was brought up.  I was merely trying to figure out who you think you would be ahead this year if you were a one loss team.

Its a mute point cause tech is not a one loss team

By the way.  I know LSU has struggled this year but dont over look the National Champions.  They know how to win big games


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## DBM78 (Dec 10, 2008)

Sorry guys CPJ fans Army/Navy whats the difference in College Football it was a late night


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 10, 2008)

LanierSpots said:


> Here is the first time the "Tech can go to a national championship if they were a one loss team" was brought up.  I was merely trying to figure out who you think you would be ahead this year if you were a one loss team.
> 
> Its a mute point cause tech is not a one loss team
> 
> By the way.  I know LSU has struggled this year but dont over look the National Champions.  They know how to win big games


when I said that I was not talking about this year, I was talking about anytime in the future.  CPJ can win a NC at GT because if, say next year or the next or any year in the future, he turns in a 1 loss year, he will be in the top 5 or 6 in the BCS.  No doubt in my mind. Once you're in the top 5 its all splitting hairs.  Depends on how good the teams you beat are.  I compared most of the 1-loss teams' resumes.  You can't tell me that if GT's only loss this year was to VT that we would compare very nicely to the quality teams that Bama or USC or OSU has beaten.

as for LSU, so the 5 games they lost weren't big games?

I'm not overlooking them, but I know if we come out prepared and play our best we will beat them.


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## dixiejacket (Dec 10, 2008)

*Paul Johnson*



DBM78 said:


> Sorry guys CPJ fans Army/Navy whats the difference in College Football it was a late night



What's the difference?  Navy 34  Army 0.  The difference is 34 points.  And your assertion of "30" fumbles to the reality of 18 has a difference of 12.


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## Grand Slam (Dec 10, 2008)

What would happen if Bo Jackson ran into Chewie in a goal line stand situation?
I think Paul Johnson would come out on the field and start lopping domes off with a green light saber only because he didn't feel like bringing his red sith lord light saber out.


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## dixiejacket (Dec 10, 2008)

*Paul Johnson*



Grand Slam said:


> What would happen if Bo Jackson ran into Chewie in a goal line stand situation?
> I think Paul Johnson would come out on the field and start lopping domes off with a green light saber only because he didn't feel like bringing his red sith lord light saber out.



I agree!


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## Hunter Blair (Dec 10, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> Never said the ACC was bad...even said GT might make it to the NC game, though would not likely win it.
> 
> The ACC is not the easiest route to the NC.  That title belongs to the Big East...developing programs and no conference championship game.  WVU would have been there last year before they tripped over Pitt - and even with their one loss, wasn't a top five program.
> 
> ...



Good Post


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## Tulip (Dec 10, 2008)

I know this is off topic but speaking of Bo running into a Chewie I was at the MNF game at the old Kingdome when Bo ran over the Boz. Man that guy could run. Nobody liked the Boz. All the Hawk fans though it was a wasted draft to get him. And in the end it was.


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## doenightmare (Dec 11, 2008)

Rest easy fellow Jackets - 

Auburn athletics director interviewed at least six candidates for head football coach position and will interview more
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
CHARLES GOLDBERG
News staff writer

NEW YORK - Jay Jacobs has interviewed a line of prospects for Auburn's vacant football head coaching position here, but the athletics director is preparing to take the interviewing process back on the road.

People familiar with the coaching search said some of the higher-profile names on Auburn's wish list could be interviewed this weekend and perhaps beyond.

Jacobs has interviewed at least six candidates, including at least four here this week in conjunction with the annual National Football Foundation Hall of Fame activities, which concluded Tuesday night.
Advertisement





Tulsa's Todd Graham and Louisiana Tech's Derek Dooley have joined a list of previously interviewed candidates, The Birmingham News has learned.

The number of coaches interviewed is likely higher, said those familiar with the search.

Jacobs said the coaches he has interviewed have given him a "a great response. They know it's a place they can come and win championships."

Auburn will give more weight to candidates who are currently head coaches and have experience in the Southeastern Conference, said those familiar with the plan.

Graham interviewed Tuesday.

Auburn has also interviewed Dooley, Buffalo coach Turner Gill, Ball State coach Brady Hoke, Georgia assistant Rodney Garner and University of Miami offensive coordinator Patrick Nix.

People familiar with the search see Florida State offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher's $5 million buyout as problematic. The search has also moved away from Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson, who is apparently committed to staying with the Yellow Jackets.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 11, 2008)

Alrighty...  let's start a list of things PJ's O cannot do simply because people say so.  These are just a few off the top of my head.  Yall feel free to add more.

Cannot work in Div 1 football.  Proven wrong
Cannot work in a BCS conference.  Proven wrong
Will not work against a fast D.  Proven wrong
Will not work against a SEC D.  Proven wrong
Cannot work against UGA's D. Proven wrong
Cannot work unless they pass the ball more.  Proven wrong
Will not be able to come from behind in games.  Proven wrong
Will not work with GT's current players.  Proven wrong



Anybody seeing a trend forming here?

I hate to say it but it is starting to look like outside of beating a team like UF in a NC type game...  we are just not going to get to the next level ever...because thats just the way it is... because SEC fans on woody's say so... because they know football... because they have big stadiums and you know all have REAL O's not to be confused with our High School O.    Just won't work.


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## Jody Hawk (Dec 11, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Alrighty...  let's start a list of things PJ's O cannot do simply because people say so.  These are just a few off the top of my head.  Yall feel free to add more.
> 
> Cannot work in Div 1 football.  Proven wrong
> Cannot work in a BCS conference.  Proven wrong
> ...



Can't recruit running this system ...............wrong. 
(Tech currently has the #25 ranked recruiting class in the country)
Won't attract top WR prospects ...............wrong again. 
http://georgiatech.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=8&c=1&nid=3630686


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Alrighty...  let's start a list of things PJ's O cannot do simply because people say so.  These are just a few off the top of my head.  Yall feel free to add more.
> 
> Cannot work in Div 1 football.  Proven wrong
> Cannot work in a BCS conference.  Proven wrong
> ...



I've said it before and I'll say it over and over again until proven wrong.  Without a passing game, the triple option WILL NOT work beyond a couple of years.  It's a one-dimensional offense just like the option and spread and given enough time, defenses will learn to shut it down.  It's not that I know everything about football, it's just what 100-years of college football history has proven to us time and time again.  A ONE-DIMENSIONAL offense CANNOT stand the test of time against elite teams and WILL NOT work beyond a couple of years.

CPJ is having success with it now because tops programs haven't played against the triple-option on a regular basis.  In fact, most of the teams GT played this year have NEVER played against a pure-option offense.  It's exactly why the spread worked so well for a couple of years.  But, just like the spread, top defenses will figure it out, play disciplined ball, and shut it down.

So, either CPJ figures out a passing game to go with the option; or, yes, GT will not get to and stay at the next level.

If you think a pure option is Tech's saving grace, you're going to be sorely disappointed in a couple of years.  And that's me talking, that's 100-years of college football history proving a point.

But like I said, I've already said this before.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2008)

just for argument's sake... Tommie Frazier won back-to-back national titles at Nebraska all while throwing the ball about 14 times per game.

Nesbitt threw it an average of 11 times per game last year.

Now, I'm not saying Nesbitt is Tommie Frazier, or that GT is or will be as good as those NU teams, or that CPJ is Tom Osborne.  I'm just saying it can be done.  And it wasn't all that long ago that Eric Crouch was winning a Heisman Trophy with it.  He was also throwing the ball an average of about 14 times per game.


----------



## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 11, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> I think PJ can be quoted saying somewhere that he has only put in35% of his O.   I believe we will see a much more diverse O next year... and no PJ wouldn't go to Auburn.  At best would be a lateral move for him.



Well buddy I have already said he will.  Look above.  Give me few hours and i will find the quote about adding more passing.  One thing for all of you to remember.  PJ had only about 3-4 scholarship receivers this year(i think that is the number) and out of those only one had a decent amount of playing time.  Kind of sounds like he built this years O around the tallent he had.


----------



## Buzz (Dec 11, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it over and over again until proven wrong.  Without a passing game, the triple option WILL NOT work beyond a couple of years.  It's a one-dimensional offense just like the option and spread and given enough time, defenses will learn to shut it down.  It's not that I know everything about football, it's just what 100-years of college football history has proven to us time and time again.  A ONE-DIMENSIONAL offense CANNOT stand the test of time against elite teams and WILL NOT work beyond a couple of years.
> 
> CPJ is having success with it now because tops programs haven't played against the triple-option on a regular basis.  In fact, most of the teams GT played this year have NEVER played against a pure-option offense.  It's exactly why the spread worked so well for a couple of years.  But, just like the spread, top defenses will figure it out, play disciplined ball, and shut it down.
> 
> ...



Chewie - as a counterpoint, Paul Johnson has been the head coach for nearly 160 games.  At the start of this season, there were hundreds of hours of game film out there on his style.   Nobody has really ever figured out how to consistently shut him down.   If I had to guess in a few years from now, that will still be the case.    No doubt he's wanting to open up the offense more, and I'm sure once he gets a few more pieces to the puzzle in place he will.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2008)

oh... we all know how to stop the triple option when we're sitting watching film.  you have to play assignment football and be disiplined and stay on your man.

now, getting the players to not have mental breakdowns is a whole 'nother story...

we're talking about 18-22 year old kids here.  its no secret how to stop it, its getting those kids to do it.  they have to execute.


----------



## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> just for argument's sake... Tommie Frazier won back-to-back national titles at Nebraska all while throwing the ball about 14 times per game.
> 
> Nesbitt threw it an average of 11 times per game last year.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying Nesbitt is Tommie Frazier, or that GT is or will be as good as those NU teams, or that CPJ is Tom Osborne.  I'm just saying it can be done.  And it wasn't all that long ago that Eric Crouch was winning a Heisman Trophy with it.  He was also throwing the ball an average of about 14 times per game.



But where is Nebraska's option offense now...just for arguments sake?    



KrazieJacket95 said:


> Well buddy I have already said he will.  Look above.  Give me few hours and i will find the quote about adding more passing.  One thing for all of you to remember.  PJ had only about 3-4 scholarship receivers this year(i think that is the number) and out of those only one had a decent amount of playing time.  Kind of sounds like he built this years O around the tallent he had.



So you know...I've read the articles and believe he'll find a passing complement.  I said it a year ago, stand by it today.  

And before you get all testy, know that I'm one of the few Dawgs on this board that truly hopes CPJ finds a tremendous amount of success at GT.  I cheer for Tech every Saturday but one...even then I don't hate em, just don't cheer for em.

I'm not kicking GT...rather just stating an observation in comparison to other one-dimensional offenses of the past.  While CPJ's option is unique (being ran as a true option out of the spread formation) it has been ran as a one-dimensional offense everywhere he's coached in the past.  He's had the luxury of smaller schools where a couple of speedy backs can out run the defense and make the plays.  In elite programs, the defense has as much speed as the offense...especially over the last decade.  While a true option offense may catch some teams off-guard; those teams learn, adjust, and figure it out.  

As an example, UGA did this very well the first half against Tech.  Bring in your corners, drop the safeties, string out the option, and play your assignment.  Save a few big plays and missed tackles, UGA shut it down.  Like a good coach, CPJ adjusted his blocking at the half and UGA failed to keep up.  Martinez can throw his players under the bus and blame it on missed assignments all he wants.  He simply failed to adjust the D to account for CPJ's adding another blocker to whatever side they were running the play.  This blocker took out the CB and left the corner free for the option.  It worked like clockwork - too many time.  Had Martinez accepted that Tech wasn't going to throw the ball at all, he could have played with one safety, added another LB, and counter CPJ's blocking adjustments and shut off the corner.  Maybe it was easier to see on TV...or from the booth...but Martinez wasn't in the booth (another thread altogether).  Lesson learned (or maybe not, again another thread).  Next year we know and adjust.......unless, CPJ has a passing game.  Then it's a whole new can of worms.


----------



## DSGB (Dec 11, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> oh... we all know how to stop the triple option when we're sitting watching film.  you have to play assignment football and be disiplined and stay on your man.
> 
> now, getting the players to not have mental breakdowns is a whole 'nother story...
> 
> we're talking about 18-22 year old kids here.  its no secret how to stop it, its getting those kids to do it.  they have to execute.




And wrap up.........


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 11, 2008)

DSGB said:


> And wrap up.........



Amen! I think the same thing every time i look at your avatar DSGB!


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## Browning Slayer (Dec 11, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> oh... we all know how to stop the triple option.


 

 I don't know... I liked Randy Shannons approach leading up to that game... "Tackle High".. "That way we can make them fumble".. "Tackle High"!!... 

I mean his scheme worked soooooo wellll.....

UGA's scheme almost worked... No need to play defense.. Just try and outscore them..


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Buzz said:


> Chewie - as a counterpoint, Paul Johnson has been the head coach for nearly 160 games.  At the start of this season, there were hundreds of hours of game film out there on his style.   Nobody has really ever figured out how to consistently shut him down.   If I had to guess in a few years from now, that will still be the case.    No doubt he's wanting to open up the offense more, and I'm sure once he gets a few more pieces to the puzzle in place he will.



Every head football coach in America knows how to stop the option.  As the option is a fairly easy offense to implement, it's defense is pretty easy as well.  Part of the reason I thought CPJ would have success, even without his own recruits, is that the option can be very effective while only running a few plays over and over again.  Look for the break down and pitch the ball.  Heck, I know how to defend the option and I'm not a head coach.

It comes down to execution.  Doc says it very well above (and quoted below).  You're teaching 18-22 year old kids to play assignment football and resist the natural urge to go after the guy with the ball.  No player on UGA's team has had to defend the option during their collegiate career (well maybe one or two hold-overs from the 2005 WVU beating).  Defending the option is all about denying your natural instinct, sticking to your assignment, and trusting your teammates to do the same.  As I said above, UGA did very well the first half and were still playing their assignments the second half.  We were simply out-coached and didn't adjust for the changes in the CPJ blocking.



Doc_Holliday23 said:


> oh... we all know how to stop the triple option when we're sitting watching film.  you have to play assignment football and be disiplined and stay on your man.
> 
> now, getting the players to not have mental breakdowns is a whole 'nother story...
> 
> we're talking about 18-22 year old kids here.  its no secret how to stop it, its getting those kids to do it.  they have to execute.



Yep!


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Browning Slayer said:


> I don't know... I liked Randy Shannons approach leading up to that game... "Tackle High".. "That way we can make them fumble".. "Tackle High"!!...
> 
> I mean his scheme worked soooooo wellll.....
> 
> UGA's scheme almost worked... No need to play defense.. Just try and outscore them..



I just didn't see this.  UGA's defense was playing well...even into the second half.  You didn't see a break down in assignment and players were still executing.  They just got out-coached.  It's hard to block 6 when you've only got 5 to do it.  Now, if you said, "No need to coach defense, just try and out score them,"  I'd agree with that.

And yes, we missed a LOT of tackles.  That was coaching too.  They didn't tackle hard at all during practice all year long.  Afraid of exacerbating injuries.


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## DSGB (Dec 11, 2008)

BlackSmoke said:


> Amen! I think the same thing every time i look at your avatar DSGB!



They should post that picture in the locker room as a reminder.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> But where is Nebraska's option offense now...just for arguments sake?



Tom Osborne retired.

And Eric Crouch won the Heisman a mere 7 years ago.  Its not like its ancient history.


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## Buzz (Dec 11, 2008)

Chewie - my point is that a coach doesn't compile a 116-42 record as a head coach by accident.   He's going to put just enough wrinkles into whatever system he uses and opposing defenses will continue to scratch their heads.   If his optimal offensive game plan were as simple as you make it sound,  PJ wouldn't have the winning percentage he has.   We could argue X's and O's all day long, but like I said nobody has ever figured out a way to consistently stop his offense and that's a big reason why he's winning percentage is what it is.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 11, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> As an example, UGA did this very well the first half against Tech.  Bring in your corners, drop the safeties, string out the option, and play your assignment.  Save a few big plays and missed tackles, UGA shut it down.  Like a good coach, CPJ adjusted his blocking at the half and UGA failed to keep up.  Martinez can throw his players under the bus and blame it on missed assignments all he wants.  He simply failed to adjust the D to account for CPJ's adding another blocker to whatever side they were running the play.  This blocker took out the CB and left the corner free for the option.  It worked like clockwork - too many time.  Had Martinez accepted that Tech wasn't going to throw the ball at all, he could have played with one safety, added another LB, and counter CPJ's blocking adjustments and shut off the corner.  Maybe it was easier to see on TV...or from the booth...but Martinez wasn't in the booth (another thread altogether).  Lesson learned (or maybe not, again another thread).  Next year we know and adjust.......unless, CPJ has a passing game.  Then it's a whole new can of worms.



Paul Johnson says he didn't change a thing.  UGA's discipline just broke down, as well as their tackling form.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Tom Osborne retired.
> 
> And Eric Crouch won the Heisman a mere 7 years ago.  Its not like its ancient history.



Crouch and Frazier both threw the ball well.  So, while thrown sparingly, it was to good effect.  Which means they had a passing game.  You couldn't cheat the secondary at all because these guys would make you pay big time.  That opened up the option.  Starting cheating in again and they'd burn you down field.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Paul Johnson says he didn't change a thing.  UGA's discipline just broke down, as well as their tackling form.



Of course he said that...but I ain't buying it.  Something was different.  Maybe I just want to believe that.  I've refused to really go over the game again (I record them all) because it's so dang disappointing.  Yes, later in the game, UGA's D did begin to break down...likely as it panicked trying to stop Tech.  But for the most part, players were not rushing to the ball and still playing assignments.  Just this time they were covered up.  I've not looked closely enough to see what was different...maybe they just blocked better the second half and I'm giving CPJ too much credit.  But what I have seen shows that the defenders were there for UGA, they were just covered.  Maybe CPJ saw something he could exploit.  I know the corner wasn't there the first half...but it sure was the second.

Agree on the tackling...no doubt.  Still a coaching issue in my mind.  You can't really expect a defender to wrap-up and take a big, speedy back to the ground if you've not let them do it during practice all year.  It explained a lot about the whole season when Richt admitted that after the game.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

Buzz said:


> Chewie - my point is that a coach doesn't compile a 116-42 record as a head coach by accident.   He's going to put just enough wrinkles into whatever system he uses and opposing defenses will continue to scratch their heads.   If his optimal offensive game plan were as simple as you make it sound,  PJ wouldn't have the winning percentage he has.   We could argue X's and O's all day long, but like I said nobody has ever figured out a way to consistently stop his offense and that's a big reason why he's winning percentage is what it is.



He has not compiled a 116-42 record at NCAA's highest level.  I think we all agree the BCS conferences as a whole are the nation's top programs.  The level of competition is different and the talent of the players is so much better.

His offense in the past is one-dimensional.  History shows us, proves to us, that one-dimensional offenses, while hot out of the gate, flame out and don't work over the long run.  Maybe he'll rewrite history and we'll be running the triple option out of the spread one day.  I'll not hold my breath.  No program has ever been able to maintain a one-dimensional attack for more than a few years and be successful over the long haul.  What's CPJ got that's going to change that?

And don't confuse an offense that's EASY to implement with one that's simple.  The triple option is easy to run because the Xs and Os aren't that difficult to grasp.  It's effective because of the option to keep it, hand off, or toss and the ability to do either depending on what the defense does.  Find a seam and beat them with speed.  The difference is that at the top levels you've got speed on both sides of the ball.  It's the sole reason it's not used at the NFL.  Speed.

Guys...I'm not saying CPJ is going to fail.  I personally think he'll find a passing game and be very successful with it.  But without a passing game, it won't last two years and will never get him to a championship.  History will prove me right on this.  If not, I'll be the first to say I'm wrong and eat all the crow I deserve.  But I'd not hold your breath either.  

And it really is Xs and Os.  Because without the threat of throwing to the little Os on the flanks, you're one-dimensional.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 11, 2008)

Your point doesn't really prove anything.  It is a no brainer... doesn't matter what type of O you run.  If the D excecutes better it's not going anywhere.  Just like if every O play is run the way it is drawn up... you have a TD every play.  The difference is a coach's ability to inspire and teach the players how to excecute their schemes.  THAT is what makes PJ a winner and a good coach... not that he runs a gimmik (sp?) O that nobody ever faces.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> Your point doesn't really prove anything.  It is a no brainer... doesn't matter what type of O you run.  If the D excecutes better it's not going anywhere.  Just like if every O play is run the way it is drawn up... you have a TD every play.  The difference is a coach's ability to inspire and teach the players how to excecute their schemes.  THAT is what makes PJ a winner and a good coach... not that he runs a gimmik (sp?) O that nobody ever faces.



Inspiration and Teaching?  That's it?  CPJ's ability to inspire makes him a good man.  I truly believe he is a good man - given his tenure at Navy and my own awareness of his time at Southern, I'm positive of it.  His ability to teach the players how to execute plays makes him a good teacher.  Given what he's done at GT this year, I'm convinced of that.

But neither of these, by themselves or together, make him a good coach.  Case in point...I've gotten to know Ted Roof (Duke's past coach) a good bit over the past 2.5 years.  He both inspired his team (they were very upset when he resigned despite winning 2 games in 3 years) and effectively taught them how to execute his scheme.  In your book, he's a good coach.  But he failed to properly assess his level of talent and implement a game plan that complemented that talent and used it effectively.  He wanted to play smash-mouth football with players that were undersized and overpowered.  That means he's not a good coach.  Great person?  Absolutely.  Good teacher?  Yep.  Good coach?  No.  Cutcliffe comes in and has taken the same talent to a new level.

And to be clear...I'm not saying CPJ isn't a good coach.  I think he is...but inspiring and teaching players are just a small part of what makes him one.

And my point isn't about one outperforming the other. It's not even really about execution.  It's about whether a one-dimensional offense, even when run to perfection, can ever be successful over the long-haul.  To date, none has.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 11, 2008)

So Roof effectively taught them how to excecute...until they played somebody.   RIGHT.   
I think you are banking on this long-haul thing.  Your right about this.  Everybody will fail at some point or die off.  That has less to do with your ideas and more to do with fate.  
      I could come up with reasonings that are unfounded and pointless...  UGA cannot beat Florida because UGA wears black cleats,  Duke will never again have a winning football team because they have bad prof. at the school.  It's easy...


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## RJY66 (Dec 11, 2008)

chewie1014 said:


> And my point isn't about one outperforming the other. It's not even really about execution.  It's about whether a one-dimensional offense, even when run to perfection, can ever be successful over the long-haul.  To date, none has.



I agree, but PJ's offense at its best is not one-dimensional as the pass is used to hit big plays after they sucker the defense up to stop the option.  The greater the qb's passing ability, the more they can work it in.   Like the spread, you can make it run heavy as Florida does or you can make it pass heavy like Texas Tech...depending on what your players do best.  

The trouble with stopping PJ's offense is not that the coaches don't know how to do it, they know exactly what to do.  There are no secrets.  The problem is teaching the defensive players how to stop in one or two weeks of practice what PJ's offensive players have been practicing the whole year.    The opposing defensive coach can't spend too much time throughout the year on PJ's offense  because he has to get his players ready for conventional offenses.    If everyone copies PJ's offense like they have the spread, it would be far less effective because it would be seen all the time.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

KrazieJacket95 said:


> So Roof effectively taught them how to excecute...until they played somebody.   RIGHT.



Wrong.  Roof's players executed the game plan he taught them.  Even on game day.  The problem was with his game plan.  He didn't have the players he needed to run that type of plan.  Would you run a spread/option offense with a QB like Stafford?  No.  Because you need a mobile QB.  Nor would you use a mobile QB with no pocket presence like Pat White in a pro-style format.  A player can make every effort in the world to do exactly what you tell them to, but if they don't have the talent, size, speed, hands, armstrength, whatever; they're not going to get it done.  You're not going to be effective with the option without a mobile QB and a pair of good, speedy backs (shall I bring up Gardner Webb?) and you'll have a hard time getting players that don't have those skills to execute.  That was Roof's problem.  He ran a game plan that didn't compliment the talent, skills, size and strength he had on the field.



KrazieJacket95 said:


> I think you are banking on this long-haul thing.  Your right about this.  Everybody will fail at some point or die off.  That has less to do with your ideas and more to do with fate.



You must think I'm bad-mouthing CPJ here and am counting on him being unsuccessful over the long haul.  Since you missed it before, I'll say it again.  I absolutely want CPJ to be successful at Tech and believe he will be.  He seems to be aware of the need for a passing game and has said so himself.  But as he hasn't had to rely on an effective passing game in the past, I'll hold off crowning him King of College Coaches for a couple of years and see how he does.  I expect he'll do well.

You're in for a lot of pointless arguing and wasted time if you think any person who criticizes your coach is calling him out as a bad coach.  My comments are not aimed at trashing Tech...I've NEVER done that in my life.  Primarily they're a word of caution to the Tech faithful to use a bit of caution after only one year of an offense that hasn't been tested at the highest level of College FB.  Oh wait, it has...and has never been successful for more than a couple years without a passing attack to compliment it.



KrazieJacket95 said:


> I could come up with reasonings that are unfounded and pointless...  UGA cannot beat Florida because UGA wears black cleats,  Duke will never again have a winning football team because they have bad prof. at the school.  It's easy...



There you have it folks...100 years of CFB history is wrong and you're right.


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## chewie1014 (Dec 11, 2008)

RJY66 said:


> I agree, but PJ's offense at its best is not one-dimensional as the pass is used to hit big plays after they sucker the defense up to stop the option.  The greater the qb's passing ability, the more they can work it in.   Like the spread, you can make it run heavy as Florida does or you can make it pass heavy like Texas Tech...depending on what your players do best.



Agreed.  But CPJ has never been pass-heavy with his option.  He's always leaned towards the run.  His last year with Navy, in 13 games he threw less than 10 times in 7 of them.  His only game with 20 or more pass attempts was against Duke and that was because they were down 14 late in the fourth and had to air it out.  Other than that he didn't have another game with more than 14 attempts - each one a loss or a late-come-from-behind game where he had to air it to get big chunks.  All I'm saying is for CPJ's offense to be effective over the haul, he's going to have to commit to throwing it more.  That's it.  Less than 10 attempts (Nesbitt's average was 9.9 this year) won't cut it.



RJY66 said:


> The trouble with stopping PJ's offense is not that the coaches don't know how to do it, they know exactly what to do.  There are no secrets.  The problem is teaching the defensive players how to stop in one or two weeks of practice what PJ's offensive players have been practicing the whole year.    The opposing defensive coach can't spend too much time throughout the year on PJ's offense  because he has to get his players ready for conventional offenses.    If everyone copies PJ's offense like they have the spread, it would be far less effective because it would be seen all the time.



Yep...but the neat thing about losing is that you remember it really well the next year.  Even if teams only play it once a year, they'll remember what happened from playing undisciplined ball.  Defending the option is easy to teach as a game plan...it really is.  It's getting players to ignore their instinct and be disciplined that makes it difficult.  One or two years of getting beat by being undisciplined will be enough to ignore instinct and play your assignment.  Especially at the bigger programs.


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## KrazieJacket95 (Dec 11, 2008)

PJ's O will work at GT for as long as he chooses to be there.  I beleive he is a great coach, and has a good head on his shoulders.  In close to his own words..."every time somebody finds a way to stop us, we find a way to adjust."  If you have as much belief in him as you say you do you would realize he is a man that wants to WIN and will do anything he's gotta to win.  I believe if GT had more than 1 decent to good WR you would have seen him pass the ball more this year... and I expect to see more passing in the future.  (This is kind of the same thing you stated about Roof)     
You do realize that the base formation that PJ uses is not very much that different from what Urban Meyer uses at UF.  Only the QB is under center.


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 11, 2008)

DSGB said:


> They should post that picture in the locker room as a reminder.




Amen!


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## Lee (Dec 11, 2008)

This is a good discussion but one point to make about the winning percentage being against lesser opponents.  Yes, he had Adrian Peterson at Ga Southern, but while he was at Navy, do you think he had a bunch of kids that turned down USC, UGA, and Texas to go to Navy?  While he doesn't have the number of blue chippers at Tech that other schools have, he will be able to get close.  I would think alot of stud running backs would want to play at Tech with those numbers they put up this year.  Stud qb, maybe not, but they can get someone that just wasn't tall enough to go elsewhere ie Joe Hamilton.

They will pass more, they couldn't protect Nesbitt for very long, and on several passes they just missed because they were rusty.  The VA Tech game comes to mind when they missed a wide open reciever down the field.  It's so run heavy, defense has to try and defend that, they will try and take the run away and then get you to stay honest to the pass.  That's exactly how it works with any offense.  Ask the Falcons, they couldn't stop anything against the Saints because they couldn't stop the run.  Then they were guessing and they got burnt all over the place.

It's amazing to me, it's like he almost knows he has an ace in the hole that he can play at any time he chooses.  I don't fully understand it but it's pretty admirable how he has mastered this offense.  Keep in mind, I didn't see the North Carolina game!


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## Grand Slam (Dec 12, 2008)

Getting back to Nebraska football. Those Tommy Frazier teams may be the best football teams I've ever seen PERIOD.... They would roll with anyone now days too. The put a beat down on Spurrier for crap's sake. Option football will work and can totally hurt people's feelings and when CPJ turns the machine loose on teams next year and years to come, you'll find out. I also think his GSU teams with Tracey Ham could roll with some good D1 teams back in those days.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Dec 12, 2008)

Grand Slam said:


> Getting back to Nebraska football. Those Tommy Frazier teams may be the best football teams I've ever seen PERIOD.... They would roll with anyone now days too. The put a beat down on Spurrier for crap's sake. Option football will work and can totally hurt people's feelings and when CPJ turns the machine loose on teams next year and years to come, you'll find out. I also think his GSU teams with Tracey Ham could roll with some good D1 teams back in those days.



exactly.  if you get the athletes, you can beat up on a lot of teams.  I think CPJ will get the athletes.  maybe not a tommie frazier (best QB ever?) but some darn good players.


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## troutman34 (Dec 12, 2008)

Gentlemen and Blowdawgs if you look back at CPJ offense while at GA Southern and Hawaii.  Southern won a NC one year THROWING for 5 TD.  While at Hawaii his offense threw it around ALOT too.  He will bring in a passing attack with this offense.  But, even attempting only 6 passes against GA, GA couldn't stop it.  The injuries to O Line stopped the passing game.  The passing game will be fine.  The man has won and won and won.  Coordinators have made adjustments, and CPJ has countered back.  The man is from the Richt, Spurrier, Bowden, Saban molds-they just win.


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## BlackSmoke (Dec 12, 2008)

good post trout....for the most part


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## troutman34 (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks, Smoke.  I had to put a little shot in there.  You heading to the woods this weekend?


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## tjl1388 (Dec 12, 2008)

jdgator said:


> Yeah. Richt is going to FSU when papa bowden kicks the bucket. You mark my words...



You know he went to school at Miami right? He was Jim Kelly's backup.

That being said, F$U can have him, he has no killer instinct and is far to predictable.


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