# 2009 Keystone Cougar X-Lite, with WATER PROBLEMS???!!!



## manley

Well, like the title says, I have an '09 Cougar X-Lite 29 RLS, bought new in August 2008.  I am pretty meticulous with maintenance, hand-washing the camper every 3 months or so, washing the roof about twice per year, checking the seams & caulk every time that I do so.  Yesterday, I decided it was time to install the Eternabond tape and get rid of the nasty Dicor.  Started with the normal scrape, prep, etc.  As I was trying to seal down one end, I noticed everyone's worst nightmare... my SIDEWALL was soft.  I had done a walk-around before getting on the roof, but failed to notice this:







I immediately had that feeling... you know the one, where you feel like you've been kicked in the soft fuzzy parts?  I started doing a little inspecting, and found this:






I immediately called my dealer... who for now shall remain nameless.  They told me (basically) to bring it in for service.  I explained the situation to them... We are leaving Friday for Memorial day camping trip, be gone about 5 days, believe that this will be an extensive repair, yada, yada.  Asked if I could bring it down to them to just LOOK AT, and they said, "sure."  (This is after 12:00 on Saturday, so service was closed.)  I asked DW to make the trip down with me, to be the voice of reason... I was NOT a happy camper, to say the least.  

I got down there, called out the sales rep (also a long-time friend.)  He commenced telling me, "you've got to maintain the seams, caulk the roof, windows, doors, etc."  I quickly told him, "let's concentrate on the problems at hand, not on what NEEDS to be done in the future.  I also asked him to have the owner come out and take a look... 

I wanted some advice on what to do (in the short term), and also wanted to know that they will stand behind me (with the manufacturer) on this.  They are the dealer, and from the looks of this problem it is NOT from lack of maintenance, it clearly looks like the corner molding has NEVER covered, from the factory, and they covered it with silicone caulk instead of an appropriate-width molding.





















For what it is worth, here is the other side of the camper, same location.  It is basically EXACTLY THE SAME, except it has no water damage... yet.  Note the hole in the silicone, and it was very soft and pliable (because there is nothing there except silicone.)  I started poking around, cleaning out the caulk to recaulk it, and you can see what I found:





















Anyway, thanks for looking at the pictures... if you are still interested, here is about a 3-minute video of the problems, damages, and a narrative explaining what the dealer told me.

http://s869.photobucket.com/albums/...el Trailer Damage/?action=view¤t=VID00015.flv

Here is my opinion and a summary of the problems:
1)  This is not good... water damage on a 2 year old coach is a bad deal.  The wall is soft for about 18 inches down the radius towards the bottom front of the camper.  The softness extends about 3-4 inches in from the edge of the wall.  It is obviously rotten.
2)  I don't believe that what I have here is right... it looks like shoddy workmanship from the factory, and the moulding is NOT wide enough.  If the moulding were 1" or more wide, it may be okay, but as you can see from the photos, it is only about 1/2" wide.
3)  My warranty is out.  (1 year manufacturer's warranty.)
4)  My dealer no longer sells Keystone products.  He was a victim of the economic crisis, lost floor plan financing, and as a result had to completely redo his floor plan, and as a result, his inventory.  Now, he only sells Forest River products.
5)  As a result of #4, I believe that the dealer will have a HARD time convincing Keystone to make this good.  I have tried contacting Keystone customer (no) service in the past, with bad results.

I asked the owner for his help, to help me try to make this a warranty and/or manufacturer's defect issue.  He said he will try, but doubts he can get very far with them.  The parts manager, who also looked at this, and shook his head (with a "that ain't right", thrown in), gave me a tube of silicone to patch it until after our trip for Memorial day.

What ya'll think?

I'm planning to blog this entire experience, add lots of photos, and (if nothing else) pressure Keystone to make it right.

At this point, I am so disgusted that I would trade, if I wouldn't take a bath on it.


----------



## marknga

I would go ahead and get it fixed to prevent further damage or trade it. Send me a PM.

Mark


----------



## manley

Well, I feel a little bit better. I just spoke with the service manager at the dealership. He indicates that there is a 2-year structural warranty on this coach, and this is clearly a structural issue (from the photos). I can't find anything right now to disprove that, so I'm holding out hope that he is right. He asked me to bring the trailer in. When I told him about our trip this week, he said it would be okay to bring it to him next week. Appointment set for next Wednesday, June 2nd.


----------



## marknga

That is good news, hope it works out well. Nice to talk to you this morning.

Mark


----------



## manley

marknga said:


> That is good news, hope it works out well. Nice to talk to you this morning.
> 
> Mark



Thanks for the call, Mark.  Nice to talk to you as well.

FWIW, I don't think there is a 2-year structural warranty, based on what I see in the owners' manual.  Stay tuned.


----------



## rifleroom

I hope you can get this worked out man! This is a bad deal for you buddy! I think you have solid ground to stand on if you need to press the issue to Keystone. Good luck!


----------



## Mirvin 264

*Re: Damage*

I feel your pain when it comes to finding the problem with your camper- I had a similar situation a couple of years ago- We purchased a "new" 2001 Sportsmen camper in 2003 (was supposedly a show model)-I noticed that the flooring was discolored just inside the rear door, making me think that the door was faulty, allowing water to make it's way to the floor- I agreed to purchase if they gave me a new door unit, which they did, and I installed myself, including re-caulking- I decided a couple of years later to replace a section of sub-floor inside the rear door where the discoloration was, because my fold down step below door had come loose under the floor- Not only did I find the sub-floor was rotten, but the support trusses were bad also- I contacted my dealer, who informed me our model only had a one year warranty- He told me he would contact KZ (manufacturer) and let them know to see if anything could be done- Much to my amazement, the camper was towed to I think Missouri, where they gutted the interior, completely replaced the entire floor and vinyl, and replaced the front fiberglass nose of the camper with a new one, at NO COST to me! My dealer told me that KZ stands behind their product the best of any manufacturer in the country- This is proof positive that they do (the camper had been out of warranty for two plus years!) I hope your situation is handled in a professional manner to your liking, but if it doesn't, and you eventually lean toward trading, try KZ's Models- I am surely a believer in them standing behind their products!


----------



## hawgrider1200

Warranty oughta last at least 10 years on a product u have to pay that much for.


----------



## manley

Well, when we returned from our trip to the coast on Wednesday, I carried the camper to the dealership.  They were to start the warranty claim process on Thursday morning.  I feel pretty good, because the dealer is helping in this process.  They have talked to one of the service guys at Keystone, and he is willing to "entertain" a warranty claim.

I am still a bit perturbed with Keystone, however.  Last Monday, May 24th, I made an inquiry on their web site to customer service.  I sent them a link to my blog and the photos, and they have not even seen fit to respond to my inquiry.  Perhaps they could have said, "Please return the camper to your servicing dealer and have them file a claim..."  Perhaps they could have said ANYTHING at all!

We'll see what happens from here.


----------



## bany

Don't look at a Jayco whatever you do!! Mine was eight years old when the black tank started to fall out! The back end dropped because of rot. After investigating the situation I found Jayco cut the hole in the floor twice for the toilet flange but,MUCH WORSE THEY CUT THE PIPE SHORT TO THE BLACK TANK BOOT!!!!! It's been leaking all these years. After sending digital proof the "tech" claimed less than a year of  saturation and that was it. No mention of their faulty work etc. Okay i am mad again. GOOD LUCK WITH YOURS, LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE CHANCE.


----------



## manley

Well, there is some good news, I guess.  There is no water damage.  The bad news is that there is a  manufacturer's defect in my Keystone Cougar!!!  Apparently, the filon on the outside of the coaches is very thin, and is bonded to luaun plywood, also very thin.  What I perceived to be water damage (and the dealer did the exact thing) is actually an air void.  Where there should be the construction of the nose piece "supporting" that sidewall, the nose piece is about 1" too narrow!  

The dealer is being great, I cannot say enough about Mark Ciroli, the service manager at Travel Country RV Center in Lake Park.  He has filed a warranty/manufacturer's defect claim with Keystone, and (if approved) plans to shim the nose piece outward towards the passenger side to fill the air pocket.  He is only asking Keystone for 7 hours labor to perform this task.  Of course, given their (so far) lack of service, he is not sure if they will approve it or not.  The repair will be less than $1,000... they're getting off cheap if you ask me!


----------



## Miguel Cervantes

Hopefully all of this will get squared away without costing you anything.


----------



## manley

Good news, Keystone has approved the repair of the manufacturer's defect.  I cannot say enough about the service manager, Mark Ciroli, at Travel Country RV Center in Lake Park, Georgia.  He has been great, and his help is much appreciated.


----------



## flattop

Glad things are gonna work out for you.


----------

