# Braves in FIRST Place!



## bfriendly

Time for a new Braves thread, which only seems fitting, now that they are in 1st place! No doubt they are "Back on Track"! Now my question is, how long can this last?

I will be rooting for them til my last breath, but right now I am kind of Holding it.  Every game to me is exciting, but this series going on with the Phillies is INTENSE! Maybe(Probably) the most intense series we have had so far........

I have no doubt that we have a good enough TEAM to win it all, but so do a few other TEAMS; even within our own division.  It will come down to which team Gets It Done!
AKA Which team Executes at that moment of truth, when it is on the line, Every Day!

No sitting back now! We are just getting started! 

GO BRAVES!


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## CollinsCraft77

We have the pitching depth.

It will all depend on the bats. As long as we don't go back to half the lineup in a prolonged slump, we should be competetive.

Your right, it is fun to watch right now. Went Friday night, and even though we had the long rain delay, the crowd still had a buzz to it. I'll be watching and can't wait till next month for interleague games. I got tickets to see the Rays and Tigers when they come. It's nice to actually be looking forward to baseball games these days.


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## bfriendly

CollinsCraft77 said:


> We have the pitching depth.
> 
> It will all depend on the bats. As long as we don't go back to half the lineup in a prolonged slump, we should be competetive.
> 
> Your right, it is fun to watch right now. Went Friday night, and even though we had the long rain delay, the crowd still had a buzz to it. I'll be watching and can't wait till next month for interleague games. I got tickets to see the Rays and Tigers when they come. It's nice to actually be looking forward to baseball games these days.




You are exactly Right! The pitching is definitely good enough, but NO Pitching is good enough without run support!


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## Doc_Holliday23

The Phillies are going through what we went through about a month ago.  They played some crappy teams at the beginning of the year and built a comfy lead.  Now they're not scoring and they're playing better teams and we got the opportunity to play the Pirates a lot. 

The Phillies will snap out of it and the Braves won't score 7 runs per game for the rest of the year.  That's why pitching is so important.  One great thing is that we've been doing very well without Jair Jurrjens.  Kris Medlen has done superbly filling in the 5th spot in the rotation.  Bobby will have a fun decision deciding who, Medlen or KK, goes back to the 'pen when JJ gets back.  Phillies have the best pitcher in the game, but the Braves have the better rotation and they definitely have the better bullpen.

I have a feeling the race is going to stay very close all year and the two teams will probably swap in and out of 1st in the East.  Hopefully we can keep dodging Halladay when we play the Phils, too.


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## Resica

The Phils need to end their lousy play now, this is ridiculous.


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## Buck

How bout that?  three run shot in the pouring down rain...


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## Sweetwater

buck#4 said:


> How bout that?  three run shot in the pouring down rain...



That was a MONSTER shot.

Glaus...from goat to hottest hitter in the show in 3 short weeks. Amazing and good for him.


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## Resica




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## Muddyfoots

Resica said:


>



Gonna leave bruises..


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## Resica

Go Phillies!!!!!


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## gsubo

Braves doin great right now..only problem I see..Chipper! His bat looks slow and he looks tired. he's late on every fastball and striking out and lunging at offspeed pitches. We have no production out of our number 3 guy. We need to do something.


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## Arrow3

Go Braves!!!


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Good to see the Atlanta Braves back to winning again with this 7 game winning streak & remaining in 1st place for their division by 1.5 games.  According to the MLB standings, the Braves have won the last 8 out of 10 games.  On the Sunday night local TV news, I thought I heard at that time they had won 15 out of their last 19 games which should make it now winning 17 out of their last 21 games.  I guess time will tell how mature the Braves really are & if they can handle being in 1st place with a big target on their back with the rest of their division teams gunning for them even more now.  Hope they sustain their 1st place standing to show some stable consistency for a while so let's enjoy it while we can.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/

Really surprised to see the Phillies in such a slump, so hope the Braves can take advantage of it right now & get the 3-game sweep for the series with a win today.


Next game reminder for today is an early start:  

Wednesday, June 2  	vs Phillies  	1:05 PM 	SPSO


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## Jranger

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/
> 
> Really surprised to see the Phillies in such a slump, so hope the Braves can take advantage of it right now & get the 3-game sweep for the series with a win today.



I wonder if the warning for stealing signs has anything to do with it..


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## DSGB

They're doing what they need to do while the Phils are struggling. I think it'll be a close race that comes down to who's the hottest down the stretch.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Jranger said:


> I wonder if the warning for stealing signs has anything to do with it..



Yep, lots of folks talking about that on TV, newspapers, & game announcers like Smoltz last nite.



http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/11/mlb-says-phillies-warned/

May 11, 2010

MLB says Phillies have been warned


AND


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/phillies/2010-05-12-mlb-phillies-warning_N.htm

5/13/2010 

MLB issues Phillies a warning in sign-stealing flap


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## mikep

Yeah the Braves are definitely looking good.  My marlins are behind by a little bit, but their bats seem to be picking up.  Even though they lost to the Phillys on Saturday night, I got to see a perfect game in person.  How cool is that!


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## jmar28

Well I'm going to say it.......

But I am eating some serious crow right now about Glaus!!!!

And its pretty good to

Keep it up Santa Glaus!!!!


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## Doc_Holliday23

gsubo said:


> Braves doin great right now..only problem I see..Chipper! His bat looks slow and he looks tired. he's late on every fastball and striking out and lunging at offspeed pitches. We have no production out of our number 3 guy. We need to do something.



Chipper didn't have a bad May overall (.265, 1 HR, 6 2B, 15 RBI, 21 BB) but he's got a 5 game hitting streak and he has 8 RBI in his last 7 games.  Seems to be coming around, plus he's ALWAYS on base, which is part of the reason Glaus had 28 RBI in May.


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## bfriendly

> Chipper didn't have a bad May overall (.265, 1 HR, 6 2B, 15 RBI, 21 BB) but he's got a 5 game hitting streak and he has 8 RBI in his last 7 games. Seems to be coming around, plus he's ALWAYS on base, which is part of the reason Glaus had 28 RBI in May.




I too have been wondering about Chipper(Alot), but he slapped a homer the other day, got a bunch of hits recently AND stole a Base!
No more worries..........hes good.

Currently, McLouth has been making me  He too is one of my faves and as we all know, he has come through in the Clutch several times, including that amazing walk off homer.
Right now, Pitchers have him Pegged! He has Got to try hitting to Left Field........if he does that, he will start racking up on the Doubles.......I wonder what Pendleton has been working with him on?


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## bfriendly

> This is not the first time the Phillies have been suspected of stealing signs. When asked by a news reporter about the notion of the New York Mets having similar issues with his team, Manuel said, "Keep crying. I'm sure if they can steal signs, they'll steal them. And we will too. … If you're dumb enough to let us get them, then that's your fault."



This is taken from the USA Today Article- see link in borntohuntandfish's post...........it was also saying that Shane Victorino was on the Bullpen phone while the Phillies were up to bat!?!

Karma........gonna get ya.  I am a big fan of Ryan Howard and a few other Phillies.........this stuff stinks!


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## Doc_Holliday23

I don't mind the guys that are playing at the time (like a runner on second base) stealing signs.  That's part of the game.  But I don't like the 'pen stealing signs with binoculars.  Baseball is supposed to be your 9 vs the other guys' 9.


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## HighCotton

Get another solid starter (get KK out of there, Lowe also still worries me) and get McLouth out of there.  Play Cabrera or Hinske instead.  Then I'll be happy and I think we're on track as long as the bats stay hot.  Right now everyone except McLouth seems to be hitting.  That won't always be the case but you can see what a big difference it makes when just a few bats start coming alive.


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## Sweetwater

I'm gonna play the devils advocate about the whole sign stealing issue....

Unlike a defensive player having the right to space to make a play on the ball....and unlike a runner having the right to the baseline....there is no right for the pitching team to sign. Yes, stealing signs from the bullpen using binoculars is dirty, IIRC it's not against the rules. If they weren't using binocs, I've have zero problem with it.


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## Sweetwater

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I don't mind the guys that are playing at the time (like a runner on second base) stealing signs.  That's part of the game.  But I don't like the 'pen stealing signs with binoculars.  Baseball is supposed to be your 9 vs the other guys' 9.



Imo....If a coach can sign in pitches off the bench, then a pitcher can steal said signs from the bullpen(without binocs). It's only fair.


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## DSGB

bfriendly said:


> Currently, McLouth has been making me  He too is one of my faves and as we all know, he has come through in the Clutch several times, including that amazing walk off homer.
> Right now, Pitchers have him Pegged! He has Got to try hitting to Left Field........if he does that, he will start racking up on the Doubles.......I wonder what Pendleton has been working with him on?



He is supposedly changing his stance a bit - shortening it up. TP thinks he is striding too far and not getting any leverage from his back leg.


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## Resica

Not again!


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## Muddyfoots

Sweep!


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## DSGB

2.5 game lead!!


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## Doc_Holliday23




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## drhunter1

Go Braves!  

Way to beat the stinking, cheating Phillies.


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## fredw

Mow them down Billy Wagner.  Mow them down.

What a great series for Braves fans.


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## Resica

Best to get it out of our system early, I suppose.


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## DSGB

Resica said:


> Best to get it out of our system early, I suppose.



We were saying the same thing not too long ago. Ya'll won't be down long, especially once you get Rollins back.

We got lucky by not having to face Halladay or Moyer.


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## Doc_Holliday23

man, I love clutch hitting.  Way to go Omar!


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## bfriendly

Seems the last few games we won were not really that close.............yesterdays was a nail biter

Way to Go OMAR!  That was clutch!

Thank you Billy Wagner for the awesome Save!

What a game!


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## Doc_Holliday23

when its going like this then only bad thing is having to wait 24 more hours to play again...


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## biggdogg

probably get a good indication as to how far the braves have come. l.a. has really a good young pitching staff and a pretty potent line-up. 

i'm glad to see melky and chipper are hitting. heck, even escobar is finally coming out of it. but mcclouth though, if he would lay off the ankle biters, half the pitches he swings at would hit him in the shins if he stood still. till he starts laying off of those and starts hitting the other way, that's all he's gonna see.


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## drhunter1

DSGB said:


> We were saying the same thing not too long ago. Ya'll won't be down long, especially once you get Rollins back.
> 
> We got lucky by not having to face Halladay or Moyer.



They certainly will not be down for long. This will be a dog fight until the end. May the best, less cheating, team win.


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## gsubo

Chipper has an "inflamed ring finger".  Are you kidding me???

This man needs to take a lesson from Cal Ripken Jr. on playing through injuries and MAN UP! Wonder how many of these "inflamed fingers" and "strained toes" Ol Rip had during the streak.

He just has no drive anymore I guess.  The Braves definately need to decide on what to do at third base next year.  I dont know how well another coach is gonna put up with it.  Then again..I got a feelin when Bobby goes so will ol Chip.


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## Doc_Holliday23

just a rhetorical question, and I'm not taking away from Ripken.  I'm a big fan.  But here's the question: Do you ever think there was a day during those 2632 games that Ripken felt that whomever his replacement was was a better option than him that day because of some ailment?  If he played anyways, then he did it for himself, and not for the betterment of the team.

Because, while I am frustrated to no end about Chipper's injuries I actually think its a very unselfish play to say "you know what, I'm only able to play at 50% today and the guy behind me is the better option."  And right now, a 100% Omar Infante is a better option than a 50-75% Chipper.

I'm frustrated with Chipper not because he won't play through pain.  I think he plays through pain all of the time.  I'm frustrated because I don't think he takes his conditioning seriously enough anymore.

Just my opinion.


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## bfriendly

Was Kris Medlen AWESOME or WHAT!?!?!

What a game!!  I was NOT TOO Happy with Bobby taking him out of the game, because NOONE hit Medlen Hard........a few grounders found some gaps, but that was about it!

Anyway, Great to get another win!  Especially against the Dodgers who are also playing really good ball right now!


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## gsubo

Kris Medlen is a bulldog!  Reminds me of Maddux! He's got a swagger about him this year he didn't have last year.


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## paddlin samurai

In the past Chipper has tried to play thru pain and hurt the team- smart move on his part.  I am frustrated too about his injuries but he is mentoring Heyward which is huge.


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## whitetaco02

Anybody else notice how Glaus won't step on the dirt in between the line and grass on the right field line?  Every time he leaves the field to the dug out he hops over it.  Anyone else notice it?

Sorry, it is late and I am bored! haha


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## Nitram4891

gsubo said:


> Chipper has an "inflamed ring finger".  Are you kidding me???
> 
> This man needs to take a lesson from Cal Ripken Jr. on playing through injuries and MAN UP! Wonder how many of these "inflamed fingers" and "strained toes" Ol Rip had during the streak.
> 
> He just has no drive anymore I guess.  The Braves definately need to decide on what to do at third base next year.  I dont know how well another coach is gonna put up with it.  Then again..I got a feelin when Bobby goes so will ol Chip.



If they keep Glaus he could play third.  Good game tonight although the Dodgers just regained the lead.


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## bfriendly

whitetaco02 said:


> Anybody else notice how Klaus won't step on the dirt in between the line and grass on the right field line?  Every time he leaves the field to the dug out he hops over it.  Anyone else notice it?
> 
> Sorry, it is late and I am bored! haha



Actually, that is a very common thing to do for many players, mostly pitchers, but other players also have "Rituals" if you want to call it that.  My favorite was Ozzie's Back flip!  That was the best!  



> If they keep Glaus he could play third. Good game tonight although the Dodgers just regained the lead.



You are joking right?  Glaus is a HITTER, not even close to being a strong defensive person.  Omar can play third, but he does lack the offensive Power that would be typical of a third baseman.

Now, back to last nights loss

TOO many Mistakes!  BIG mistakes-most notable was Melky getting tossed out at second!  It is amazing the game was as close as it was.  
J-Hey went 0 for 5 with 5 strike outs, man that was painful

KK rebounded after missing his marks by a foot or better early.
O'flerity's(sp) first pitch was also off the mark by way over a foot, which lead to the winning run

I have been a big fan of Nate McLouth, but I am ready to SCALD HIM with the 3rd Degree Riot Act!  AND sit him for at least the next game.  Not because of his 0 for 4 at bats last night, but because he NEVER even Tries to throw home! This Lack of effort is unacceptable.  Yea, I know that the chances of throwing out a taggin Furcal is about .05%, but what if Rafeal was to pull a Hamstring when he took off? What if he tripped on his shoe laces?  NO EFFORT especially when noone else is on base, is UNACCEPTABLE!

Everyone in our division won, except US and the Marlins who lost to the Mets........Big set back, but hopefully we can rebound tonight-I expect we will!

About the only positive note on last nights game was that we made it as close as we did.........Thanks Yunel!


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## gsubo

How many more losses before KK is pulled from our rotation???  Its painful to watch the Ls keep piling up for him.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Sorry to see the Braves 9 game winning streak come to an end, but at least it was a close game.

Box score:  

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_04_atlmlb_lanmlb_1


Friday, June 4, 2010:

Dodgers 5, Braves 4


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## BornToHuntAndFish

After 6 innings, Braves were looking doubtful tonight losing 2 to 0, but in the 7th, Atlanta's bats got hot scoring 7 runs with the score 7 to 2 over the Dodgers in the top of the 8th led by Glaus's Homerun going ahead of Heyward & now Glaus leading the team in HR's.  Escobar continues some good hitting after last nite leading the team going 3 for 4 and tonight going 2 for 3 so far, but Infante has 2 hits also right now going 2 for 4.

Box score so far:  

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_05_atlmlb_lanmlb_1


Go Braves!


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## bfriendly

> How many more losses before KK is pulled from our rotation??? Its painful to watch the Ls keep piling up for him.



When JJ gets back, KK better be gone. Surely Bobby will not take Medlen out of the rotation.

BIG WIN tonight over the Dodgers. After lookin pretty rough, a 7 run 7th was awesome. Great to see my man Big Mac get a BIG HIT, less than a foot from going out the opposite way
Good to see that Kimbrel kid back here too Even Manny Ramirez tipped his helmet(sort of) to him after the game winning strike out.  That was RESPECT!

Go Braves!!


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Looks like the Braves had quite a batting rally in today's win with 14 hits.  (Also, at least on the road Atlanta split the series with 2 wins with the Dodgers over this last weekend.)


Tuesday, June 8, 2010:

Braves 7, D-backs 5

Box score details:  

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_08_atlmlb_arimlb_1

Hope they can win this series on the road over Arizona.


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## DSGB

Left a lot of guys on base, but still got it done. Props to Medlen for his all-around effort!


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## Doc_Holliday23

yeah lots of LOB, but some timely hitting, too, especially Glaus and the Melk man in the late innings.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Bummers of a loss for the Braves.  Wish they would've saved some from last nite to win today.  Hope they at least split the series with a final Atlanta game win.  Too bad again for KK gonna have to wait to pitch & try to win his 1st game another day.

Box score:  

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_09_atlmlb_arimlb_1


Wednesday, June 9, 2010:

D-backs 2, Braves 1


At least it was close.


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## bfriendly

Yea it was definitely a tough loss..........Gotta love Kelly Johnsons performance against his old team.  I was rootin for him every at bat, I always liked him. He is a tough ball player.

Hope Nate is ok, maybe this will get him turned around


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## Doc_Holliday23

really crappy way to lose a ball game.


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## DSGB

First home run allowed by Moylan since March 30, 2008.


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## emusmacker

Chipper mentoring Heyward, uh oh Heyward is becoming an injury waiting to sit out.

If Infante is that much than Chipper, why even start Chippy, let the best player play!  PERIOD


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## Doc_Holliday23

emusmacker said:


> Chipper mentoring Heyward, uh oh Heyward is becoming an injury waiting to sit out.


or a first ballot Hall of Famer in the making, depends on how you want to look at it.


emusmacker said:


> If Infante is that much than Chipper, why even start Chippy, let the best player play!  PERIOD


actually, I agree with you.  But I still think a healthy Chipper is better than Infante, though.


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## Doc_Holliday23

almost blew another one last night... Braves really should be 6-2 on this road trip... instead they're 4-4.


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## bfriendly

Dropped another one........Man we are lookin sad

Need some serious rebounding to happen!  A few mistakes(Bigguns), swinging at bad pitches........r we still in first place?


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## DSGB

Only 1.5 in front of the Mets. Phillies lost again, too.


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## paddlin samurai

huddy should have thrown it high and tight but got it down low and outside for a cheap single.  Man he was po'd


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## bfriendly

paddlin samurai said:


> huddy should have thrown it high and tight but got it down low and outside for a cheap single.  Man he was po'd



The best pitching I ever remember seeing albeit was a Closer, is Mariano Rivera throwing the HIGH HEAT!  I would like to see more of it from our Braves!

Got the rebounding win we really needed last night!! 

Really Good Game and Bobby Cox got the Home Depot Player of the game award by calling the suicide squeeze in the top of the ninth!!

That was awesome!


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## paddlin samurai

40,30,20,10 and 0....haha


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## DSGB

Glaus is on fire and Prado continues his hot streak. Once again, Medlen picks up the W and the Braves take two out of three from the Twins, who own the best record in interleague play in recent years.
Still 1.5 up on the Mets; Phillies fall back to 3.5.


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## Doc_Holliday23

6-5 on that road trip is incredible.  We played 11 straight days in 3 cities, 3 different time zones, against a division leader (Twins), the NL Wild Card leader (Dodgers), and Arizona who has a pretty good record at home.

Yeah, we probably left a game or two out there, but overall that's a very successful trip.  Pitching was great.  Prado and Glaus are a 2-man wrecking crew.


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## Resica

DSGB said:


> Glaus is on fire and Prado continues his hot streak. Once again, Medlen picks up the W and the Braves take two out of three from the Twins, who own the best record in interleague play in recent years.
> Still 1.5 up on the Mets; Phillies fall back to 3.5.


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## Doc_Holliday23

Schultzy has been reading my blog...

_If Braves’ Pendleton got blame before, he better get credit now_

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-b...dleton-got-blame-before-he-better-credit-now/



> So does this mean Terry Pendleton isn’t so bad?
> 
> (Sarcasm.)
> 
> After going 6-5 on what could have been a crushing 11-game road trip, the Braves are 14-5 since a 6-4 loss to Florida – Kenshin Kawakami shockingly was the losing pitcher – and 29-13 (.690) since a nine-game losing streak.
> 
> Nobody figured they were that bad at 8-14. Some probably wonder if they’re really this good at 10 games over .500 in mid-June.
> 
> But I just wanted to bring something to your attention. Despite still getting little production from their expected primary run producers – Chipper Jones, Brian McCann, Yunel Escobar – the Braves have been climbing in National League statistical categories.
> 
> They rank No. 1 in walks (.295), No. 1 in on-base percentage (.352), No. 2 in doubles (124), No. 2 in runs (.327), No. 4 in batting with runners in scoring position (.277), No. 5 in total hits (.565) and No. 6 in batting average (.262). All in all, that’s pretty good for a lineup most of us wanted to blow up in April.
> 
> Which leads me back to Pendleton.
> 
> During this 14-5 stretch, the Braves are scoring 5.58 runs per game. That’s a full run more than the previous 45 (4.58).
> 
> Hitting and pitching coaches get way too much credit and blame. Pendleton wasn’t the reason Jeff Francoeur nose-dived in Atlanta. Similarlly, Pendleton is not the reason Martin Prado has turned into a .332 hitter. Coaches can help only so much in terms of pointing out flaws and making suggestions. Players either adjust or they don’t.
> 
> When Leo Mazzone left the Braves for Baltimore, it was comical the way some fans believed the Braves were suddenly going down like Pompeii, as if Mazzone created the greatness that was Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz.
> 
> What happened when Mazzone went to the pitching-poor Orioles? Suddenly, he stunk. All those people who whined when he left the Braves suddenly went mute.
> 
> Funny. The same thing is now happening with Pendleton’s critics. We’ve gone from screams to crickets.
> 
> If Pendleton is going to get the blame for Nate McLouth, he needs to get some credit for Troy Glaus, Eric Hinske and Omar Infante.
> 
> Can’t have it both ways, folks.


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## bfriendly

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Schultzy has been reading my blog...
> 
> _If Braves’ Pendleton got blame before, he better get credit now_
> 
> http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-b...dleton-got-blame-before-he-better-credit-now/


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## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Schultzy has been reading my blog...
> 
> _If Braves’ Pendleton got blame before, he better get credit now_
> 
> http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-b...dleton-got-blame-before-he-better-credit-now/


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Time for the Braves to build on their 2 game winning streak.  After the rain delaying the start of the game, unfortunately the 1st inning is not starting off well with Tampa Bay being in Atlanta scoring 4 runs in the top of the 1st & tied for 1st in their division along with having a much better road record than their home game record.  Hope the Braves can keep up.

Here's a quick web link to the MLB scoreboard:  

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/scoreboard/

At least the Braves scored a run in the bottom of the 1st.


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## whitetaco02

Chipper Jones needs to retire!


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Chipper just went yard for a solo HR in the bottom of the 8th, but Braves still way behind, currently losing 4 to 10 and it does not help that Atlanta has 4 errors for the nite so far.  Too bad Kawakami will not get his 1st win of the season even though the Braves have 14 hits to TB's 13 hits so far.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Uh-oh, after tonight's Braves' loss, NY Mets are only 0.5 games behind them after their win tonight which is part of a 5 game in a row winning streak.  Atlanta better enjoy 1st place while they can.


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## gsubo

Can we please send KK back to Japan?  This has got to be the worst start to a season in Major League History..


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## drhunter1

Escobars error in the first inning, in typical lax Escobar relaxed "I don't care, Ole`" fashion set the tone for the entire game.  This is the problem I have with Escobar. He's looking for style points over making solid plays.

I have watched all of Kawakami's games this year and without fail, one of the position players commits a stupid error that has cost him a run or two. Plus for some reason his turn in the rotation seems to fall right when the opposition has their best starter on the mound. 

He wasn't at his best last night, but Kawakami is a good pitcher and his record is not indicative of how he has pitched this year. 3 of the 5 runs last night were un-earned.

That Rays team has the best road record in the Majors. Don't be surprised if they sweep us. Especially if we don't come to play like last night.


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## Doc_Holliday23

very true about KK.  He did get rocked around in the first after the E, but the last 6 starts or so he has been very solid.

the Rays had the better of the pitchers going last night but the Braves will have the better pitcher for the next 2 nights.

plus, why the heck do we have chris resop back up with this club?  did he not suck enough to get rid of him last time he was up?  we were down 5-3 with some momentum before he came and walked the yard...


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## Jranger

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> plus, why the heck do we have chris resop back up with this club?  did he not suck enough to get rid of him last time he was up?  we were down 5-3 with some momentum before he came and walked the yard...



I agree... Chavez was at least good for K's.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Escobars error in the first inning, in typical lax Escobar relaxed "I don't care, Ole`" fashion set the tone for the entire game.  This is the problem I have with Escobar. He's looking for style points over making solid plays.
> 
> I have watched all of Kawakami's games this year and without fail, one of the position players commits a stupid error that has cost him a run or two. Plus for some reason his turn in the rotation seems to fall right when the opposition has their best starter on the mound.
> 
> He wasn't at his best last night, but Kawakami is a good pitcher and his record is not indicative of how he has pitched this year. 3 of the 5 runs last night were un-earned.
> 
> That Rays team has the best road record in the Majors. Don't be surprised if they sweep us. Especially if we don't come to play like last night.




I totally agree EXCEPT, I will be very surprised if they sweep us.........I wont be surprised if we take the next 2

As far as KK goes, I agree he has pitched better than his record indicates, but when JJ comes back, Medlen needs to stay in the rotation, KK to someplace else


----------



## drhunter1

Escobar needs to grow up. I'm tired of his schtick.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Escobar needs to grow up. I'm tired of his schtick.





he'll be ok, if not, he can be replaced


----------



## whitetaco02

6-2 Braves win!

At least it is not a sweep!


----------



## bfriendly

whitetaco02 said:


> 6-2 Braves win!
> 
> At least it is not a sweep!




Not a sweep?  I'd say we have a great chance of winning the series! Yes, we did get a bad call go our way, but at least this time it did go our way! Thanks ump!

As far as the KK thing goes, while we will almost all agree that he has pitched better than his record shows, ya have to admit, when he goes to the hill, we all have that sinking feeling in our gut..........he is the one who needs to be taken out of the rotation......
on the flip side, when Medlen goes to the hill, there is Fire in the belly and we all like our chances!


----------



## gsubo

bfriendly said:


> when Medlen goes to the hill, there is Fire in the belly and we all like our chances!




I really like Medlens attitude this year. He has a ton more cofidence than he did last year and he has good stuff. He reminds me of Maddux..and he throws strikes.  If he works on puttin a little more movement his fastball he could have Maddux like stuff. Great changeup too.


----------



## drhunter1

They played well last night. Still the rays are a dangerous hitting team. Hansen was spot on. Hudson will have to be the same.

How about Prado. Man if he's not the NL Allstar 2nd basemen, something is wrong. Same goes for Glaus at 1st base.


----------



## HermanMerman

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> very true about KK.  He did get rocked around in the first after the E, but the last 6 starts or so he has been very solid.
> 
> the Rays had the better of the pitchers going last night but the Braves will have the better pitcher for the next 2 nights.
> 
> plus, why the heck do we have chris resop back up with this club?  did he not suck enough to get rid of him last time he was up?  we were down 5-3 with some momentum before he came and walked the yard...



Resop's contract was out of options. They had to trade him, release him, or call him up to the bigs. It made sense to give him some innings in that game.  If he threw well, then he would have been showcased to the league and we may have been able to have traded him for something decent. But, he was straight awful. I don't think it is a coincidence that he went on the 15 day DL after the game. It gives them a little more time to decide what to do with him.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I know the story on Resop.  He was lighting it up in AAA but the Braves should have known he can't pitch at the ML level.  They should have traded him and let some other poor team take the chance on him.


----------



## DSGB

I drove up for the game last night. Hanson looked great and had command of all his pitches. He was hitting 96 with his fastball.
Everybody in the lineup had at least one hit (except Hanson). 

Here are a few pictures from the game.

Hanson dealing






Prado getting things started in the 3rd





Heyward with a hit





Bobby asking Paul Emmel how his wife is doing 





B-Mac doubles in a run





Glaus drives in a pair





Hinske beats the shift


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

nice shots DSGB.


----------



## Sweetwater

Nice pics.


----------



## bfriendly

That was Very Nice!! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## GAdawg315

awesome pics, I liked that Hinske at bat. You would think they would re-align the infield after the first 3-4 bunt attempts.. I'll take it though!


----------



## bfriendly

bfriendly said:


> Not a sweep?  I'd say we have a great chance of winning the series! Yes, we did get a bad call go our way, but at least this time it did go our way! Thanks ump!
> 
> As far as the KK thing goes, while we will almost all agree that he has pitched better than his record shows, ya have to admit, when he goes to the hill, we all have that sinking feeling in our gut..........he is the one who needs to be taken out of the rotation......
> on the flip side, when Medlen goes to the hill, there is Fire in the belly and we all like our chances!




Not often am I right, but I LOVE IT, When I am!

BIG WIN last night to win the series!!

This game IMHO is a Statement of how good we can be-or should I say ARE!


----------



## westcobbdog

nice pics..thanks for posting..Go Braves! Right now we have as good a shot as anybody to win the NL!


----------



## DSGB

GAdawg315 said:


> awesome pics, I liked that Hinske at bat. You would think they would re-align the infield after the first 3-4 bunt attempts.. I'll take it though!



He said that opposing teams have shifted on him four times and he has four bunt singles. I, too, thought they would have adjusted after the first couple attempts. 
The Rays also had a bunt single to beat the shift when Carlos Pena did it to start the second.


----------



## DSGB

Once again, Hudson has a quality start and gets the win. He's been the most reliable starter for the Braves all season and leads the league in ground ball outs. Good thing he signed that contract extension!
As hot as the Mets have been, we've kept pace with them while playing some good teams.


----------



## Nitram4891

Went to the game last night and that was a huge home run from Heyward to tie it up.  That was an awesome double by Glaus and 7 solid innings from Hudson.  Go Braves!


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> Not often am I right, but I LOVE IT, When I am!
> 
> BIG WIN last night to win the series!!
> 
> This game IMHO is a Statement of how good we can be-or should I say ARE!



Yes and I notice you don't mind pointing it out either.


----------



## gsubo

Troy Glaus is the man!  Ill admit I had my doubts at the beginning of the season..but MAN! He has come on strong and he's the biggest reason the braves are where they are.


----------



## bfriendly

gsubo said:


> Troy Glaus is the man!  Ill admit I had my doubts at the beginning of the season..but MAN! He has come on strong and he's the biggest reason the braves are where they are.




if the season ended right now, it may be a flip for MVPs between him and Prado. Both have had the Biggest impacts, but no doubt the Braves are winning as a TEAM!


----------



## bfriendly

> Yes and I notice you don't mind pointing it out either.



Dont Mind? No, I LOVE IT!! 

We'll see if I am right about JJ coming back.........who goes then?


----------



## Blue Iron

bfriendly said:


> Dont Mind? No, I LOVE IT!!
> 
> We'll see if I am right about JJ coming back.........who goes then?


 

Lets hope KK. I may be in the minority but with a 0-9 record you need to move on. They're paying him like 13 mil a year if I remember right, hard to swallow that kinda money.....


----------



## bfriendly

Blue Iron said:


> Lets hope KK. I may be in the minority but with a 0-9 record you need to move on. They're paying him like 13 mil a year if I remember right, hard to swallow that kinda money.....



Ever since Medlen's second or third game, I was sayin Let KK go-maybe give him some Bullpen tries?........write the $ OFF!  We need to win and KK's starts have not been getting it done, wether his fault or not.  You have to admit, there is an EEERY(sp?) feeling when KK takes the mound.

I think you are far from being alone on this one.


----------



## Blue Iron

KK Sucks. Cut him, send him to AAA, something. I don't even want him in the bullpen. You can talk all you want to about his "record not showing how good he has pitched" the fact remains that he's 0-9 and got knocked up for 4 ER's in 3 innings today.

Thank God for our bats and a bunch of walks by the Royals.

Go Braves!


----------



## GAdawg315

Blue Iron said:


> KK Sucks. Cut him, send him to AAA, something. I don't even want him in the bullpen. You can talk all you want to about his "record not showing how good he has pitched" the fact remains that he's 0-9 and got knocked up for 4 ER's in 3 innings today.
> 
> Thank God for our bats and a bunch of walks by the Royals.
> 
> Go Braves!



Very true. I think he might be OK in the bullpen. I say give it a shot and let Medlin be our #5


----------



## Fishlipps Revisited

KK has a better ERA than Lowe....and he's 9 and 5....go figure....

he's hardly been on top of his game, but, he's had some HORRIBLE luck, too....they blooped him to death yesterday...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

and KK makes $7.3 mil, not 13.


----------



## DSGB

I hope KK goes to the 'pen when JJ comes back. He will make one more start before then, though.  
I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but when you leave so many pitches over the plate, you gotta expect big league hitters to make you pay, whether it's a long ball or a bloop single. No, he hasn't gotten a lot of run support, but when he does, he just gives it all back. 
If he doesn't work out in the 'pen, I hope he joins Eric Byrnes. I'd rather just lose whatever is left of hi $23M contract, than lose the games he pitches plus the money.

Great job by the bullpen yesterday! especially Kimbrel getting out of that jam in the 8th.
Chipper has shortened his swing and it seems to be paying off. He stroked those two doubles.


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> and KK makes $7.3 mil, not 13.


 
Thanks for correcting me, I knew it was a pretty big amount but was to lazy to look it up.


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> and KK makes $7.3 mil, not 13.


According to MLB.com it is actually 6.6667 million, plus "miscellaneous others" (interpreter, living expenses, and travel back and forth to Tokyo among others).



DSGB said:


> I hope KK goes to the 'pen when JJ comes back. He will make one more start before then, though.
> I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but when you leave so many pitches over the plate, you gotta expect big league hitters to make you pay, whether it's a long ball or a bloop single. No, he hasn't gotten a lot of run support, but when he does, he just gives it all back.
> If he doesn't work out in the 'pen, I hope he joins Eric Byrnes. I'd rather just lose whatever is left of hi $23M contract, than lose the games he pitches plus the money.
> 
> Great job by the bullpen yesterday! especially Kimbrel getting out of that jam in the 8th.
> Chipper has shortened his swing and it seems to be paying off. He stroked those two doubles.


They are on the hook for a tick over 9 million right now to KK.  With a tight budget there is no way they can simply cut losses and move on.  They can't afford to pay him to play at Gwinnett.  His salary is too high to move him unless the Braves will pay part of his salary anyway.  As far as I can tell, KK is staying put.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

reylamb said:


> They are on the hook for a tick over 9 million right now to KK.  With a tight budget there is no way they can simply cut losses and move on.  They can't afford to pay him to play at Gwinnett.  His salary is too high to move him unless the Braves will pay part of his salary anyway.  As far as I can tell, KK is staying put.



Yeah we're going to have to pay most of, if not all of, his salary even if we trade him.

But the fact is, he's given us a chance to win fairly often lately.  His last start aside, he's gone deep into games and generally given up less than 3 runs.  And heck, even if he's given up as many as 5 runs, he's our fifth starter and most teams don't expect much more than that from their #5 guy.

I think too many people are hung up on his salary.  baseball doesn't always work out where the guys making the most are the most productive.  Look at the bright side... we're paying Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlen, Heyward, Prado, Yunel, and O'Flaherty all under $500,000 each.  Only Johnny Gomes makes LESS money per RBI than Troy Glaus.


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Yeah we're going to have to pay most of, if not all of, his salary even if we trade him.
> 
> But the fact is, he's given us a chance to win fairly often lately.  His last start aside, he's gone deep into games and generally given up less than 3 runs.  And heck, even if he's given up as many as 5 runs, he's our fifth starter and most teams don't expect much more than that from their #5 guy.
> 
> I think too many people are hung up on his salary.  baseball doesn't always work out where the guys making the most are the most productive.  Look at the bright side... we're paying Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlen, Heyward, Prado, Yunel, and O'Flaherty all under $500,000 each.  Only Johnny Gomes makes LESS money per RBI than Troy Glaus.



I think he ends up in the pen once JJ is ready.  There is no way Bobby pulls Medlen from the rotation, and if he does he needs to retire now!!!!!!!

I agree on the salary issue.  However, in the current economic state of the Braves they just can't dump him and pay his salary or ship him to Gwinnett because of his salary.  

I also agree with you that most teams would be happy to get his numbers out of the #5 pitcher.  Heck, I would be happy if the Yankees were getting his numbers from Burnett or Vazquez right now


----------



## drhunter1

I still say KK is a good pitcher. It's sad though, he finally gets some run support and his stuff goes south. He is starting to leave too many pitches up.

He's not going anywhere though. Maybe to the bullpen. Thats about it.


----------



## bfriendly

reylamb said:


> According to MLB.com it is actually 6.6667 million, plus "miscellaneous others" (interpreter, living expenses, and travel back and forth to Tokyo among others).
> 
> 
> They are on the hook for a tick over 9 million right now to KK.  With a tight budget there is no way they can simply cut losses and move on.  They can't afford to pay him to play at Gwinnett.  His salary is too high to move him unless the Braves will pay part of his salary anyway.  As far as I can tell, KK is staying put.





That is where I get confused........Seems to me, they cannot afford to keep sending him to the mound to start games.  I know he has to be a good pitcher(or was), or he would have never gotten what he did.
 Maybe I am a racist, but I have always wanted the Braves to have a good Asian/Japanese Pitcher or player somewhere-I am a big fan of Ichiro and the big man that used to play for the Yanks-his name just left me for some reason.  I also grew up watching the Bad News Bears(Original & Go to Japan)
I was excited about seeing KK sign, start etc.........but after watching a few and being highly disappointed........now I get skeered.

Then again, I really like our chances when Tommy goes to the mound. But the White Sox had other ideas as they just got done teeing off, jacking up and wearing him out!!

I always like to find a positive and Big Mac homered in the 9th and we did make it interesting late, by getting it to only a 3 run deficit and Chavez looked really good on the hill!


----------



## reylamb

bfriendly said:


> That is where I get confused........Seems to me, they cannot afford to keep sending him to the mound to start games.  I know he has to be a good pitcher(or was), or he would have never gotten what he did.
> Maybe I am a racist, but I have always wanted the Braves to have a good Asian/Japanese Pitcher or player somewhere-I am a big fan of Ichiro and the big man that used to play for the Yanks-his name just left me for some reason.  I also grew up watching the Bad News Bears(Original & Go to Japan)
> I was excited about seeing KK sign, start etc.........but after watching a few and being highly disappointed........now I get skeered.
> 
> Then again, I really like our chances when Tommy goes to the mound. But the White Sox had other ideas as they just got done teeing off, jacking up and wearing him out!!
> 
> I always like to find a positive and Big Mac homered in the 9th and we did make it interesting late, by getting it to only a 3 run deficit and Chavez looked really good on the hill!



I hope that was Hideki Matsui who you can not remember and not the Japanese pitcher the Yanks had that Steinbrenner referred to as the "fat toad."

He will end up in the pen, too much money to waste by shipping him down or trying to trade him.


----------



## whitetaco02

Man, the White Sox are giving them a tough time!


----------



## DSGB

Saito just gave up a two run bomb to Konerko to put the ChiSox up 2-0 headed to the ninth. 
Top of the order due up for the Braves.


----------



## DSGB

Braves lose again, despite Lowe going 7 innings and allowing 0 runs on five hits.
Atlanta had two hits. Can't win if you don't hit!
They out-hit the Sox yesterday, but still lost due to not getting hits with RISP.


----------



## whitetaco02

DSGB said:


> Saito just gave up a two run bomb to Konerko to put the ChiSox up 2-0 headed to the ninth.
> Top of the order due up for the Braves.



Why in the world did he throw him a first pitch fastball?! 

Braves have definitely cooled down!


----------



## DSGB

Hopefully Detroit can beat the Mets so we can remain in 1st.


----------



## drhunter1

Saito has given up some big HRs this year.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

rough series with basically zero timely hitting.


----------



## bfriendly

reylamb said:


> I hope that was Hideki Matsui who you can not remember and not the Japanese pitcher the Yanks had that Steinbrenner referred to as the "fat toad."
> 
> He will end up in the pen, too much money to waste by shipping him down or trying to trade him.



Yes, thats the guy! The HITTER-duh
.............course he went through a slump too.....cant remember who he is playin for now, but I saw him the other day and it was weird seeing him NOT in a Yankee uniform, but someone elses.


----------



## bfriendly

Gotta get back on track, thats all................C'mon Braves!

Dont make me start another thread!!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Ouch, Chicago sure did put the hurt on the Braves with sweeping them in the series.  Tough time for Atlanta to be playing the White Sox now having a 9 game winning streak even though they are in 3rd play in their division.  Sorry to see the NY Mets having a chance to take 1st place away if they win today.  Hope Atlanta can get back into their recent winning ways soon.

In case anyone is interested, here's a web link to the "Braves Play Here" catchy song version 1 minute video by country music singer John Rich that we hear when Atlanta plays games on the Peachtree TV channel:  

http://www.615music.com/core/play_media.cfm?video_id=224&type=1

Since it has not yet been posted on Youtube, I could not embed it here & could not find it anywhere on the internet to embed.


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Ouch, Chicago sure did put the hurt on the Braves with sweeping them in the series.  Tough time for Atlanta to be playing the White Sox now having a 9 game winning streak even though they are in 3rd play in their division.  Sorry to see the NY Mets having a chance to take 1st place away if they win today.  Hope Atlanta can get back into their recent winning ways soon.
> 
> In case anyone is interested, here's a web link to the "Braves Play Here" catchy song version 1 minute video by country music singer John Rich that we hear when Atlanta plays games on the Peachtree TV channel:
> 
> http://www.615music.com/core/play_media.cfm?video_id=224&type=1
> 
> Since it has not yet been posted on Youtube, I could not embed it here & could not find it anywhere on the internet to embed.




That was definitely a painful series!  Kind of cool to watch some ex braves playin though.............for some reason I always root for them.  Mark Kotsay appeared to OWN us!


----------



## DSGB

Still a half game up thanks to Detroit! 

Gotta get the mo' back and distance ourselves from the rest. Having a decent lead going into the break would be great.


----------



## westcobbdog

Detroit is also playing well right now, like the White Sox. So we gotta be ready, no time to wonder what just happened! I imagine this race will go back and forth all year between the Bravos, Phillies and Mets.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

bfriendly said:


> Kind of cool to watch some ex braves playin though.............for some reason I always root for them.  Mark Kotsay appeared to OWN us!



Yep, I always pull for ex-Braves, even when they play against Atlanta show they can show what the Braves walked away from.





DSGB said:


> Gotta get the mo' back and distance ourselves from the rest. Having a decent lead going into the break would be great.



Yep, hope they get their mojo back quickly.  Holding onto 1st place thru the all-star break would definitely be a plus & a psychological edge with momentum going into the 2nd half of the season, while also giving them boasting rights about winning the 1st half of the season.  

Last nite was a must win to hang on to 1st place & too close for comfort.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_25_detmlb_atlmlb_1

Friday, June 25, 2010:

Braves 3, Tigers 1


In case you have not noticed, don't look now, but several National League teams currently have winning streaks going, such as Phillies with 4 wins in a row & Reds with 4 wins in a row, along with Milwaukee winning 5 in a row.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/

Hope Braves can stay motivated for winning & maintain their lead longer.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Heard on the TV news & checked the MLB scoreboard seeing the Mets lost to Minnesota so the Braves have a chance to go ahead by another game if they win.  Hope KK can get his 1st win & glad to see Atlanta winning right now 3 to 1 in the bottom of the 7th, but the 8th inning just began.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Braves win!

KK gets his 1st win going 7 innings with 6 strikeouts!

Great Save by Moylan with bases loaded & striking out last batter!

Congrats to Chipper on his HR! 

Prado goes 2 for 4.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_26_detmlb_atlmlb_1

Saturday, June 26, 2010:

Braves 4, Tigers 3


W:    Kawakami (1-9, 4.48);
L:    Zumaya (2-1, 2.63);
SV:    Moylan (1) 

HR:    DET:
        Cabrera, M (20).
    ATL:
        Jones, C (5).


----------



## GAdawg315

Huge win today for KK. He deserved it, pitched very well. Very disappointed with our bullpen though. Mainly Eric O'Flaherty and Saito. They just about blew it. Moylan was a little off at first but it all turned out OK.

Braves now back to a 1 game lead in front of the Mets. 
Great pitching matchup tomorrow Hanson v. Verlander. Hopefully we'll get the bats swinging again!
Go Braves!


----------



## bfriendly

Some games just leave a bad taste in my mouth............this was definitely one of them!

Balls and strikes were terrible last night.........starting with a few strikes that were called balls against the Braves; luckily no damage that I remember.

LAST PITCH to Johnny Damon was clearly a ball, and if called as such, would have tied the game; then KK would NOT have gotten his first win, nor Moylans first save and a good possibility of a loss for the Braves. Worst thing though would have been the effect of 3 bullpen pitchers that DID NOT get it done!

Damon is one of those guys that I see as a "Gamer" and I always root for him. Even though I was rooting for him to pop out in last night's game, he laid off of a clear ball four and got Burned.

That just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth...........I am trying to get rid of it by convincing myself that we are on the losing end of more "Bad" calls than we get the benefit of

Regardless, of the outcome, the Braves Bullpen BLEW IT! We just got away with one so I'll take it........I guess

It was a sweep of the Division as all other NL East teams lost........That is Really big!


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> Some games just leave a bad taste in my mouth............this was definitely one of them!
> 
> Balls and strikes were terrible last night.........starting with a few strikes that were called balls against the Braves; luckily no damage that I remember.
> 
> LAST PITCH to Johnny Damon was clearly a ball, and if called as such, would have tied the game; then KK would NOT have gotten his first win, nor Moylans first save and a good possibility of a loss for the Braves. Worst thing though would have been the effect of 3 bullpen pitchers that DID NOT get it done!
> 
> Damon is one of those guys that I see as a "Gamer" and I always root for him. Even though I was rooting for him to pop out in last night's game, he laid off of a clear ball four and got Burned.
> 
> That just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth...........I am trying to get rid of it by convincing myself that we are on the losing end of more "Bad" calls than we get the benefit of
> 
> Regardless, of the outcome, the Braves Bullpen BLEW IT! We just got away with one so I'll take it........I guess
> 
> It was a sweep of the Division as all other NL East teams lost........That is Really big!



That game was a joke and so was the umpire. He was tight with the corners all day and called that last pitch a strike? Awful, just awful.

I hate winning a game with a bad call. Karma comes around to get you on stuff like that.


----------



## DSGB

JJ looked good in his return last night. Even helped himself out with that slash hit to left. He did a good job getting out of the 5th with the bases loaded and got some help from Moylan with a ground ball DP in the 6th.
Still have a game and a half lead.


----------



## bnew17

off topic ,,,but are yal ready for the civil rights games next year at the ted!!!!!!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I've never even heard of the Civil Rights game...

but Atlanta is the fitting place to have it.  Certainly not a bad thing to be celebrating.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

DSGB said:


> JJ looked good in his return last night. Even helped himself out with that slash hit to left. He did a good job getting out of the 5th with the bases loaded and got some help from Moylan with a ground ball DP in the 6th.
> Still have a game and a half lead.



Really awesome to have Jurrjens back.  He is one of my favorite players.  Really knows how to pitch and he's actually a really good interview, as well.  Kinda interesting to me that he and Andruw really look and sound alike to me.  That strong Curacao imprint on both of them.


----------



## DSGB

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Really awesome to have Jurrjens back.  He is one of my favorite players.  Really knows how to pitch and he's actually a really good interview, as well.  Kinda interesting to me that he and Andruw really look and sound alike to me.  That strong Curacao imprint on both of them.



One of my favorites, as well. 

 My wife says he looks like he's wearing makeup.


----------



## drhunter1

bnew17 said:


> off topic ,,,but are yal ready for the civil rights games next year at the ted!!!!!!!



MLB is a private entity so I have no problem with them celebrating it if thats what they want to do. 

I think it's unneccessary and only serves to remind us of our horrible past and hampers our ability to move on and be better for it. I don't think it serves a real purpose.

We will never move on in this country to a truly color blind society because we have be constantly ramrodded with with race. 

It's funny how even MLB finds the need to constently make race an issue, but their attendance is down so they must broaden their appeal with cheap appeals to race.

I believe it does more harm for race relations than good. IMO we just need to get over it.


----------



## DSGB

IMO, Selig started the civil rights game a few years ago because of the lack of african-american players in the game today.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> MLB is a private entity so I have no problem with them celebrating it if thats what they want to do.
> 
> I think it's unneccessary and only serves to remind us of our horrible past and hampers our ability to move on and be better for it. I don't think it serves a real purpose.
> 
> We will never move on in this country to a truly color blind society because we have be constantly ramrodded with with race.
> 
> It's funny how even MLB finds the need to constently make race an issue, but their attendance is down so they must broaden their appeal with cheap appeals to race.
> 
> I believe it does more harm for race relations than good. IMO we just need to get over it.



Getting  but do you realize that we were once color blind-at least the majority of us.
  Then we got some Radically Progressive Presidents(& other government representatives) to begin the separation of blacks and whites. They did not want to "get over it", but they wanted it to Increase, to "Take off" so to speak.
Question for ya, who was the first to implement the Black drinking fountain and the White fountain, the white section of the bench and the left side etc etc............where did all this separation come from?  If you are thinking that back when slavery ended, they decided to keep blacks and whites separate, and that it started way back then,I think you are mistaken.  

When you think of "Our Founding Fathers", do you think of a bunch of white guys with wigs and hot heavy clothes? Of course you do, when the Progressives changed the history books back in the early 1900s, separation really began; Hence the Need for MLK years later.  BTW-ML did not ask for Entitlements or minority rights, but EQUAL Rights!

Did you know there were Black Founding Fathers? The first man killed defending America during the Revolutionary war was..........Hope you guessed it, BLACK!



Sorry, had to vent. Back to the game, Great win and JJ looked really good. I canno imagine how bad it must be playin in this heat.......pros or not, the heat ha got to hurt. Even my favorite player McCann got beat by the heat.......looked pretty rough late in the game and I was glad to see him get pulled too!

Congrats JJ, Welcome back!!!!


----------



## DSGB

McCann has taken a beating the last couple days. First the foul ball off his forearm, then gets hit by a pitch on the same hand.


----------



## bfriendly

DSGB said:


> McCann has taken a beating the last couple days. First the foul ball off his forearm, then gets hit by a pitch on the same hand.




I knew he was in Trouble Before he got hit.......He left his right arm in front of him..........there is no place for the catcher's throwing arm during the receiving end of a pitch........I saw him doing that and thought, HUH? What are you doing? then sure enough, BAM!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Congrats to the Braves on their 3rd win in a row & still being in 1st place with 3 games ahead of the Mets. 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/

Current MLB standings at the web link above.


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Congrats to the Braves on their 3rd win in a row & still being in 1st place with 3 games ahead of the Mets.
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/
> 
> Current MLB standings at the web link above.



HUGE week coming up! One more against the Marlins tonight, then three IN Philly, then three IN NY against the Mets!!

This May be the biggest test thus far!  One thing for sure, the Phillies and Mets will both be ready and waiting for us.


----------



## bfriendly

What a tough loss last night, but I gotta admit, it is very cool to be thinking we are going to WIN, until it is over.  I was sure we would come back and win until Omar struck out in the bottom of the ninth for the last out. 

I am thinking maybe Yunel needs to go borrow someone else's bat! 
Maybe one of Prados, Gregor Blancos? Heck, maybe one of Tim Hudsons?  I dunno, but his Mizuno sure is NOT working right now


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> What a tough loss last night, but I gotta admit, it is very cool to be thinking we are going to WIN, until it is over.  I was sure we would come back and win until Omar struck out in the bottom of the ninth for the last out.
> 
> I am thinking maybe Yunel needs to go borrow someone else's bat!
> Maybe one of Prados, Gregor Blancos? Heck, maybe one of Tim Hudsons?  I dunno, but his Mizuno sure is NOT working right now




Omar Infante was batting over 300 before "Yunie" came back. He hasn't done squat since he came back. He doesn't hit in the clutch and he tries to inside out everthing to right field. He gets jammed and pops up. I can call it almost everytime he does it.  He hits pretty good when he tries to go up the middle and to left field but he is in love with right field for some reason.

I say Omar diserves to play short every day. When he was we were getting a good bit of hitting out of that position. 

I think that Yunell is a pretentious, spoiled child playing a mans game. I believe he will never reach his potential because he thinks he's better than he is. Thats not to say he isn't talented, he just doesn't show up to play everyday. I don't believe he's willing to do what is necessary to reach his potential.

Bobby's not going to do it though. When he falls in love with a player, there is very little that can change that short of an injury.

I will give Bobby credit though. IMO, he's managing the best of his career right now and thats pretty darn good.


----------



## Resica

Let's go Phils!!!!!!


----------



## deerslayer11

Resica said:


> Let's go Phils!!!!!!



get outta herrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeee


----------



## Resica

bigbuckhunter11 said:


> get outta herrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeee


----------



## Resica

Nice pitching by Halliday. Good win.


----------



## Blue Iron

Halladay is impressive.


----------



## drhunter1

Melky Cabrerra has not been very clutch lately. The Braves line up lets Halladay get in their heads too much. If you think you can't hit him, you can't.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

had opportunities last night... just couldnt get the clutch hit.

tonight we get cole, who has been anything but dominant this year.  I like our chances with JJ on the bump.

oh, and how about those swings by Chipper last night?


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> had opportunities last night... just couldnt get the clutch hit.
> 
> tonight we get cole, who has been anything but dominant this year.  I like our chances with JJ on the bump.
> 
> oh, and how about those swings by Chipper last night?



Yep. Chipper looks like he is timing the ball better. Maybe limiting his playing time is good for him and the team overall.

Like I said, Bobby is doing the best managing job he has ever done. Some of the old things, some new things. It's good stuff.


----------



## emusmacker

Yep you got that right, He absolutely loves Slipper, injuries and all.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

emusmacker said:


> Yep you got that right, He absolutely loves Slipper, injuries and all.



there's just something about a first-ballot HOFer that gets me all tingly...


----------



## emusmacker

Well Doc I'm glad you get tingly over Chipper, maybe ya'll can go watch the new Twilight saga together. He may even hold your hand.


----------



## Resica

Let's go Phils!!! Take another game!!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Phillies are tough, but congrats on the Braves nice win in extra innings.  Good to see the bats came alive this game with Braves out hitting them 13 to 3.  Glad to see Atlanta still in 1st place by 2 games over the Mets.  Glad the games are on regular OTA TV this week.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_06_atlmlb_phimlb_1

Tuesday, July 6, 2010:

Braves 6, Phillies 3

Congrats to Prado & Hinske on their homeruns!

HR: 

Prado (8, 7th inning off Hamels, 0 on, 2 out), 

Hinske (6, 11th inning off Zagurski, 1 on, 2 out).


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Phillies are tough, but congrats on the Braves nice win in extra innings.  Good to see the bats came alive this game with Braves out hitting them 13 to 3.  Glad to see Atlanta still in 1st place by 2 games over the Mets.  Glad the games are on regular OTA TV this week.
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_06_atlmlb_phimlb_1
> 
> Tuesday, July 6, 2010:
> 
> Braves 6, Phillies 3
> 
> Congrats to Prado & Hinske on their homeruns!
> 
> HR:
> 
> Prado (8, 7th inning off Hamels, 0 on, 2 out),
> 
> Hinske (6, 11th inning off Zagurski, 1 on, 2 out).



Gotta love a team that never gives up!  Go BRaves!  One thing though, weren't Hinske and Prado homers BOTH with 2 strikes as well?
A win tonight and we win the series with the Phils!


----------



## drhunter1

emusmacker said:


> Well Doc I'm glad you get tingly over Chipper, maybe ya'll can go watch the new Twilight saga together. He may even hold your hand.



There is one other good thing about Chipper. 






He's not a Yankee.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> There is one other good thing about Chipper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's not a Yankee.



that was always the one good thing I could say about Saddam Hussein, as well.

and yes bfriendly, both HR's were with 2 strikes.


----------



## Resica

. Good win for the Braves.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> that was always the one good thing I could say about Saddam Hussein, as well.
> 
> and yes bfriendly, both HR's were with 2 strikes.


----------



## DSGB

Walking the leadoff hitter came back to haunt JJ last night. 

I couldn't believe they forced extras with two hits.


----------



## drhunter1

Resica said:


> . Good win for the Braves.



You have got to be the classiest Philly fan I have ever seen. No joke.


----------



## bkl021475

Prado is having an awesome season! I'm also glad to see Hinske and Infante getting more playing time! The Braves bench is loaded this year, hopefully we get the pennant back this year and a little more!


----------



## drhunter1

bkl021475 said:


> Prado is having an awesome season! I'm also glad to see Hinske and Infante getting more playing time! The Braves bench is loaded this year, hopefully we get the pennant back this year and a little more!



How about a lot more.


----------



## emusmacker

Doc I remember you saying you liked Derek Jeter and thought he was a class act.   You do know he's a Yankee right?

Maybe when you and Chipper go to the movie, ya'll can take Drhunter along, he'd probably like that. You holding his left hand and Drhunter holding his right.   

Good thing about Jeter, He ain't a Brave. Oh, and BTW he also has 5 World Series rings, and will also be a HOF'er.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

emusmacker said:


> Doc I remember you saying you liked Derek Jeter and thought he was a class act.   You do know he's a Yankee right?
> 
> Maybe when you and Chipper go to the movie, ya'll can take Drhunter along, he'd probably like that. You holding his left hand and Drhunter holding his right.
> 
> Good thing about Jeter, He ain't a Brave. Oh, and BTW he also has 5 World Series rings, and will also be a HOF'er.



yep, he is a class act.  the yankees are too dumb to figure out that they could have paid him a lot less and he wouldve stayed around because he is loyal to the franchise and the people of NYC.

drhunter, do you hold hands the old-fashioned way or the interlocking fingers way?


----------



## Resica

drhunter1 said:


> You have got to be the classiest Philly fan I have ever seen. No joke.



What did I do to deserve that? I don't hate the Braves. I've watched them forever and liked them when they were bad. As soon as I quit following them, they became good for 15 years or so!!


----------



## Resica

That being said, let's go Phillies!!


----------



## Blue Iron

Way to go Braves, taking 2 of 3 from the Phils.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Close game tonight both teams having 10 hits tonight along with the Phillies making the Braves work hard for their win tonight.  Thank God for Atlanta's 6 run rally in the 6th inning!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_07_atlmlb_phimlb_1

Wednesday, July 7, 2010:

Braves 7, Phillies 5

Mets helped with a loss tonight so the Braves 1st place lead goes back to 3 games ahead of 'em.


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Close game tonight both teams having 10 hits tonight along with the Phillies making the Braves work hard for their win tonight.  Thank God for Atlanta's 6 run rally in the 6th inning!
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_07_atlmlb_phimlb_1
> 
> Wednesday, July 7, 2010:
> 
> Braves 7, Phillies 5
> 
> Mets helped with a loss tonight so the Braves 1st place lead goes back to 3 games ahead of 'em.



Sure hope this momentum comes with us to NY!  Big series starting Friday Night against the Mets, then the all star break........




> You have got to be the classiest Philly fan I have ever seen. No joke.



I was thinkin the same thing


----------



## DSGB

Prado continues to impress and the Braves are guaranteed a share of the lead heading into the break. That was a big inning against Moyer. 
Hopefully, they'll win the series against the Mets and sit alone in first.


----------



## Resica

drhunter1 said:


> You have got to be the classiest Philly fan I have ever seen. No joke.





bfriendly said:


> I was thinkin the same thing


Thank you. I'll attempt to maintain that attitude. Good luck to the Braves!!


----------



## drhunter1

DSGB said:


> Prado continues to impress and the Braves are guaranteed a share of the lead heading into the break. That was a big inning against Moyer.
> Hopefully, they'll win the series against the Mets and sit alone in first.



Moyer has owned to the Braves. I was beginning to wonder if they would ever figure him out. 

John Smoltz was hitting the nail on the head last night though. If there is a pitcher you have to try and go the other way with, it's him and they finally caught on in the 6th.  

The Phillies are still not going to go away.


----------



## Resica

drhunter1 said:


> Moyer has owned to the Braves. I was beginning to wonder if they would ever figure him out.
> 
> John Smoltz was hitting the nail on the head last night though. If there is a pitcher you have to try and go the other way with, it's him and they finally caught on in the 6th.
> 
> The Phillies are still not going to go away.


I sure hope they don't go away. Even though they have a few folks out, they weren't playing all that well with them. They need to start hitting.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Moyer has owned to the Braves. I was beginning to wonder if they would ever figure him out.
> 
> John Smoltz was hitting the nail on the head last night though. If there is a pitcher you have to try and go the other way with, it's him and they finally caught on in the 6th.
> 
> The Phillies are still not going to go away.



I love listening to Smoltz explain the game.  Its really good stuff.  Sutton kinda does it but Smoltzy is incredibly informative about what the hitter and pitcher are thinking and why they throw the pitches they throw.


----------



## whitetaco02

whitetaco02 said:


> Chipper Jones needs to retire!



I take it back!


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I love listening to Smoltz explain the game. Its really good stuff. Sutton kinda does it but Smoltzy is incredibly informative about what the hitter and pitcher are thinking and why they throw the pitches they throw.


 

I agree, I really miss it when he's not in the booth.


----------



## bfriendly

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I love listening to Smoltz explain the game.  Its really good stuff.  Sutton kinda does it but Smoltzy is incredibly informative about what the hitter and pitcher are thinking and why they throw the pitches they throw.



Times 2!!  Smoltz is my favorite, then Sutton.  With Smoltz beside him, I can even stand Ernie!

Do ya ever think Smoltz, when watching the game, can make a call and relay the OBVIOUS to the bench?  He is SPOT ON!  

I like Tom Glavin too, but he is always surrounded, doesn't get as much "Air time" as he could fill and be better than his coharts.


----------



## schleylures

Braves Mets, Game one 4-2 good guys maybe they can win two out three and go to the all star break up four games. It would be better to sweep and go there up six but I think that is a little much to ask for.


----------



## bfriendly

schleylures said:


> Braves Mets, Game one 4-2 good guys maybe they can win two out three and go to the all star break up four games. It would be better to sweep and go there up six but I think that is a little much to ask for.



Maybe a little much to ask for, but why not?  If you want to reach the sky, shoot for the stars!!
I would love to see the Braves win EVERY game, the rest of the season

OK, more than likely NOT going to happen, but a sweep of the Mets is off to a good start!  What a Nailbiter last night!

Is anyone else enjoying this season as much as I am?  I am Stoked to say the least!  



> I sure hope they don't go away. Even though they have a few folks out, they weren't playing all that well with them. They need to start hitting.



Maybe a little , but did you see your boy Howards walk-off last night?  He has been my favorite Non-Brave since he came up.........He is the MAN!  He reminds me of a golfer the way he reaches down(Extending arms=POWER) and gets them low outside pitches......if I pitched to him, I would stay UP above the hands. If you are going down, you better rub some dirt, or he will get you! Congrats to the Phillies for 2 walk off wins in a row  Now get back down and lose the next 3


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

WTG Braves on last nite's big on the road win to start of the last series before the all-star break.  

Now at halfway thru the game today on national public over the air TV &  there's still no score by either team.  Glad the Braves are the highest scoring MLB team from the 7th inning to the end which shows a good "never quit" attitude, when many times attitude is 80% of the battle and of a win in many things in life.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Woohoo!!!  Braves rally in the 5th inning with 4 runs that included 5 consecutive hits, now Atlanta 13 hits to Mets' 3 hits.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Alright! Braves win & go 4 games ahead leading in 1st place, with hot bats of 15 hits to Mets' 4 hits. 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_10_atlmlb_nynmlb_1

Saturday, July 10, 2010:

Braves 4, Mets 0


----------



## Muddyfoots

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Alright! Braves win & go 4 games ahead leading in 1st place, with hot bats of 15 hits to Mets' 4 hits.
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_10_atlmlb_nynmlb_1
> 
> Saturday, July 10, 2010:
> 
> Braves 4, Mets 0



5 games up..


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

*Appreciate It!!!*



Muddyfoots said:


> 5 games up..



Thanks, I deserved/needed that. 

Great, that's even better! 

The MLB Standings web site was slow updating.  That's what I get for relying on a web site instead of using my own good mind.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/

Looks like the MLB Standings web site is up to date now like you said. 

Is that the largest 1st place lead that Atlanta has had for the season so far?


----------



## Muddyfoots

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Thanks, I deserved/needed that.
> 
> Great, that's even better!
> 
> The MLB Standings web site was slow updating.  That's what I get for relying on a web site instead of using my own good mind.
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/
> 
> Looks like the MLB Standings web site is up to date now like you said.
> 
> Is that the largest 1st place lead that Atlanta has had for the season so far?



Yep, largest lead of the year.

Who woulda thunk it amidst the 9 game losing streak in April?


----------



## schleylures

meed to win one more and go six up. Braves will have another loosing streak so need to get up.  The score does not show the game it should have been a lot higher. Braves left to me on base.


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Thanks, I deserved/needed that.
> 
> Great, that's even better!
> 
> The MLB Standings web site was slow updating.  That's what I get for relying on a web site instead of using my own good mind.
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/
> 
> Looks like the MLB Standings web site is up to date now like you said.
> 
> Is that the largest 1st place lead that Atlanta has had for the season so far?



I think so.  I am really impressed looking at the record which shows us to be like 17 games OVER 500!  I think last year, we were just trying to get to 500 and still have a chance to get in the playoffs.......this year is ALOT of FUN!!



> meed to win one more and go six up. Braves will have another loosing streak so need to get up. The score does not show the game it should have been a lot higher. Braves left to me on base.



NO DOUBT!  We left way too many guys on base, in scoring position........bases loaded no outs and get NOTHING was painful!!

Our defense was amazing last night too!  We kept the Mets in check all night, they left quite a few stranded as well.

HOW ABOUT MATT DIAZ!!  His late double just missed going out by about a foot!


----------



## Muddyfoots

Diaz is HOT!

Hope Lowe brings the "good stuff" today.


----------



## paddlin samurai

i think we need to pick up a  "bat" with all the injuries- i think our pitching will hold up.


----------



## Muddyfoots

paddlin samurai said:


> i think we need to pick up a  "bat" with all the injuries- i think our pitching will hold up.



Agree. Need a good stick in center.


----------



## drhunter1

Man it would have been nice to sweep the Mets. Going into the break 6 up would have been HUGE!.  I hope this game doesn't come back and bite us.


----------



## Blue Iron

What do ya'll think about trying to trade for Pagan?

When Beltran comes back he will be the odd man out in the OF and with Reyes hurt they need a SS.

My thoughts; Trade Escobar and something? to the Mets for Pagan, and let Infante be the everyday SS.....


----------



## drhunter1

Blue Iron said:


> What do ya'll think about trying to trade for Pagan?
> 
> When Beltran comes back he will be the odd man out in the OF and with Reyes hurt they need a SS.
> 
> My thoughts; Trade Escobar and something? to the Mets for Pagan, and let Infante be the everyday SS.....



I would love to trade Escobar. I'm tired of his effort issues. That single that he  jump for yesterday, looked like he didn't try. They showed the replay a couple of times and it looks like he is disinterested or tired of playing the game. 

The other night when he called everyone off even when he hadn't even spotted that pop up and let it drop and cost us a run was the last straw for me. Show boating for sure. Then he promptly show boats again and floats a bad ball to Glaus at first that nearly broke his wrist when he was forced to tag the runner istead of stepping on the base. All he had to do was throw the ball normally.

I'm tired of his show boating mentality. You can see it in everything he does. I don't know if its a Latin American thing or what. I'm tired of his lack of effort. I say trade him if you can. It's a shame because he has mad talent, that I doubt he will ever realize fully. 

One thing is for sure is that he needs to grow up.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

i want to strangle escobar sometimes, but then I see him make some really incredible plays.  He turned a double play saturday than was pretty amazing.  i actually think he's gonna have a good second half at the plate.

plus, the mets probably aren't gonna trade pagan and they're definitely not gonna trade him to us.  they don't need escobar because they already have an all-star ss named reyes.


----------



## ToroAzul

Escobar's numbers are down significantly from previous years, really makes you wonder... On the other hand start Infante for a series and let's see what happens. 

As far as any trade with the Mets forget it. No way 'buyers' are helping each other out within the division.


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> i want to strangle escobar sometimes, but then I see him make some really incredible plays.  He turned a double play saturday than was pretty amazing.  i actually think he's gonna have a good second half at the plate.
> 
> plus, the mets probably aren't gonna trade pagan and they're definitely not gonna trade him to us.  they don't need escobar because they already have an all-star ss named reyes.



You are correct sir, if the Mets trade Pagan it will certainly not be for a SS that will make the Division Leader better.......I mean seriously, the Mets are chasing the Braves, why would they want to strengthen the Braves?  It is laughable just thinking about.


----------



## paddlin samurai

How is Freeman doing in the minors?  I would rather call someone up than trade prospects for a 1/2 un and done.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

freeman is a 1B and we don't need help at 1B.  we need an outfield bat, if anything.

I think we will wait and see what kind of production we can get from the Hinske/Diaz platoon in LF now that Matty is healthy.  Also take a look at McLouth as he should be healthy for the first time in a while.  Yes, I know, he wasn't exactly raking before he went down.  I think Heyward should be back in the lineup by next Monday, latest.


----------



## drhunter1

No if I was going to try and go after something right now. Corey Heart for Escobar. I bet Milwaukee would take it and never look back.


----------



## SFStephens

The Braves need a big bat in the middle of the lineup, and I definitely wouldn't mind giving Escobar a bus ticket to make that happen.  He acts like he doesn't want to be in Atlanta, and I'd love to see Infante playing everyday.  The Braves are playing good baseball now, but they are still leaving entirely too many runners on base.  Sooner or later, that's going to catch up with them.  I'd like to see them make a move to get some pop in the lineup.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> No if I was going to try and go after something right now. Corey Heart for Escobar. I bet Milwaukee would take it and never look back.



corey hart is nowhere near as good as his first half stats.

here's a good response to Peter Gammons' rumor about a Corey Hart deal.  Btw, they're talking about Mike Minor (minor league LH pitcher) straight up for Corey Hart.  Corey Hart isn't worth Escobar's spikes.

If you guys dont read the Capitol Avenue Club blog, its really good.  Check it out.  http://capitolavenueclub.com



> Peter Gammons lays down a rumor that the Braves and Brewers are discussing a Mike Minor for Corey Hart trade.  David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution isn’t buying it, and I’m not either.  O’Brien really hits the nail on the head when he says, “Corey Hart had OPS of .759 and .753 in ’08-’09.” Keith Law adds to the Hart skepticism shared by O’Brien and me in his chat today: “I wouldn’t trade anything of value for Hart.  His first half is way over his head, and hitters who can be beaten that easily would scare me if I was looking to acquire them for a playoff run.” (emphasis mine).   Law also had this to say when asked if he’d trade Minor and what the Braves could get in return: “Yes. I think he could be the central prospect in a deal for a second-tier player – not a Lee or a Haren, I mean.” After seeing him Tuesday night (89-93 MPH fastball with good fade, plus change, solid-average-to-above-average curve that he struggled to locate, BTW) I wouldn’t be opposed to the Braves trading him……in the right deal.  Corey Hart is not involved in ‘the right deal’.  He sucks.  He’s Jeff Francoeur when Francoeur still had a shred of athleticism left.  The last thing the team needs is another Jeff Francoeur.  He’s also not going to be worth his arbitration salary next year, which makes him non-tender bait.  Bottom line, trading Mike Minor for Corey Hart would be nothing short of a massive mistake.  BTW, read the entire chat transcript because it’s hilarious, but if you don’t at least read the second question.



Here's what Dave O'brien said about it:


> Not buying Hart-Minor rumor. Corey Hart had OPS of .759 and .753 in '08-'09. Minor is ATL's closest-to-majors SP prospect & only LH in group


----------



## bnew17

did anybody happen to catch Heywards batting practice at the all star game?


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> corey hart is nowhere near as good as his first half stats.
> 
> here's a good response to Peter Gammons' rumor about a Corey Hart deal. Btw, they're talking about Mike Minor (minor league LH pitcher) straight up for Corey Hart. Corey Hart isn't worth Escobar's spikes.
> 
> If you guys dont read the Capitol Avenue Club blog, its really good. Check it out. http://capitolavenueclub.com
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what Dave O'brien said about it:


 

Good read, my only info on Hart is what I saw him do last night. 

We for sure don't need a Frechyesqe player.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

bnew17 said:


> did anybody happen to catch Heywards batting practice at the all star game?



no... good news for us Braves fans?


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Man it would have been nice to sweep the Mets. Going into the break 6 up would have been HUGE!.  I hope this game doesn't come back and bite us.



No doubt, but we gotta be happy where we r now!


As far as Escobar goes, I wonder sometimes if Escobar is trying to stay calm, like a Golfer trying to not get too excited in order to maintain, be productive and perform at his best throughout the round?

No doubt he is frustrated more than we are and we really dont know what is going on inside his head. When Big Mac struggled and started throwing out F bombs, we didn't appreciate that too much either,................just sayin


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Hope Prado's bat warms back up when the Braves start back after the All Star break.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> corey hart is nowhere near as good as his first half stats.
> 
> here's a good response to Peter Gammons' rumor about a Corey Hart deal.  Btw, they're talking about Mike Minor (minor league LH pitcher) straight up for Corey Hart.  Corey Hart isn't worth Escobar's spikes.
> 
> If you guys dont read the Capitol Avenue Club blog, its really good.  Check it out.  http://capitolavenueclub.com
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what Dave O'brien said about it:



Thats fine. Lets see what Hart does for the rest of the year. If he hits 40 HR with 100 RBI's for a crappy team we are going to be looking back on this as an opportunity lost. If he tanks, O'Brian can say I told you so. I don't think he's going to tank but we'll see.

If it's not going to be Hart, whos it going to be?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Thats fine. Lets see what Hart does for the rest of the year. If he hits 40 HR with 100 RBI's for a crappy team we are going to be looking back on this as an opportunity lost. If he tanks, O'Brian can say I told you so. I don't think he's going to tank but we'll see.
> 
> If it's not going to be Hart, whos it going to be?



its possible that he could keep it up this year, but his recent past doesnt indicate so.  plus the fact that he's gonna be due more money that most think he's worth at the end of the year.  Escobar has an extremely high ceiling and even with his offensive production down right now, he's one of the best SS's in the league defensively.  And we've seen what he CAN do with the bat.

I don't know who we are looking at.  I think we're waiting and seeing how Heyward, Diaz, and McLouth will be after they come back from injury.  I mean, think about this team with a healthy Heyward back at the 2 spot and a Diaz/Hinske platoon in LF.  That's automatically a lot more production even without trading for a bat.


----------



## bfriendly

I guess we are on top of our Braves, better than I thought. Apparently they are thinking the same thing.........Escobar is gone(See specific-other thread).

I see this as a really good thing for the Braves AND Yunel.  He needs to get his act together and this may be the best thing to help him do that.

GOOD LUCK Yunel.........oh, and Good Bye!   =0)


----------



## Troutman3000

See ya Yunel!


----------



## Nitram4891

Was at the game last night and those were monster shots by Prado and Chipper in the third.  Heywards throw to third and catch in the corner probably won us the game.   Another one is the win column!


----------



## SFStephens

Game was a disappointment last night.  It seems the Braves' bats have cooled over the all-star break.  What's of more concern are all the runners they're leaving on base without timely hitting.


----------



## Blue Iron

I feel bad for Hanson, he's not pitching that bad!


----------



## schleylures

we stunk last night at least philly and the mets lost.


----------



## SFStephens

schleylures said:


> we stunk last night at least philly and the mets lost.



That is definitely the bright side


----------



## bfriendly

SFStephens said:


> That is definitely the bright side



Gotta find it!

KK came in and if there was any life left in the Braves last night, he let it get away.  There IS still time to trade him isn't there? 

 Dunn looked pretty good and I believe I heard we got a few others that can come up and fill some voids if needed.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Even though the Braves could not produce more runs with their 8 hits & being out hit with the Brewers doubling up getting 16 hits, Atlanta's pitchers had a bad night with Hanson giving up 4 runs in 5 innings & Kawakami giving up 3 runs in 1 inning.  

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_16_milmlb_atlmlb_1 

Friday, July 16, 2010:

Brewers 9, Braves 3

At least the Mets, Phillies, & Marlins helped out with all 3 losing Friday/yesterday.


----------



## SFStephens

I'm not sure about relief working for KK either. Y'all sure we can't pawn him off on someone else? PLEASE


----------



## drhunter1

I'm going to vent!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand Bobby Cox sometimes. What is with this screwy lineup he put in tonight!!!!!!!!!!!????????????

Lord help me. He puts in this anemic line-up and sits Heyward, and McCann.  It makes no sense at all. Why????????????


We had a chance to win this series and he messes it up with putting in a stupid line-up.


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> I'm going to vent!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I don't understand Bobby Cox sometimes. What is with this screwy lineup he put in tonight!!!!!!!!!!!????????????
> 
> Lord help me. He puts in this anemic line-up and sits Heyward, and McCann. It makes no sense at all. Why????????????
> 
> 
> We had a chance to win this series and he messes it up with putting in a stupid line-up.


 
Folks gotta have a break.....We still have a good chance for a split.

Whats up with Venters hitting Fielder?


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Just wasn't Hudson's night where all runs scored on him, but the Brewers' 5 run rally in the 7th was too much.  Wonder how long Chipper's pulled leg muscle is going keep him benched again?


----------



## drhunter1

Blue Iron said:


> Folks gotta have a break.....We still have a good chance for a split.
> 
> Whats up with Venters hitting Fielder?



Bobby already knew that the Phils had won. Folks gotta have a break. pfffft  They just had the ALLSTAR Break. Give me a break.

There is no explaining why Bobby does, what he does sometimes.


----------



## SFStephens

Bobby, for the most part, has been managing well this season in my opinion.  That being said, he still does some things that make me scratch my head.  Last night was another disappointing loss.  It's always disappointing to out hit a team and still lose.  Someone has to step up and start hitting the ball in the clutch.  McCann and Chippers RBI numbers are sad and it seems we lean on them for run production.  These are games that we can't afford to lose, or our 4.5 game lead will quickly disappear.  I'm thinking the Braves can turn it around today and pull out a split.


----------



## bfriendly

Blue Iron said:


> Folks gotta have a break.....We still have a good chance for a split.
> 
> Whats up with Venters hitting Fielder?



NO DOUBT!  That was Rediculous!  Worst though was that Venters has been like a knock out punch, that gave the Braves a good mindset going back into the later at bats, which have directly resulted in late inning wins!

Last night's Peggin of Prince was like a slap inthe face to the whole team.........2 fastballs, first one over the head,  then one to the back of Prince, a well known, well liked player-by me too!

I dont think anyone on the team was expecting that, but you can BET we are expecting retalliation..........and you can bet if I were the next Brewer pitcher,  it would be swift!  I bet McCann gets one in the back today.......watch and see.

I am disgusted to say the least, and then KK's disappointment needs to be his last straw..............send him down!  or at least dont let him pitch anymore


----------



## SFStephens

bfriendly said:


> NO DOUBT!  That was Rediculous!  Worst though was that Venters has been like a knock out punch, that gave the Braves a good mindset going back into the later at bats, which have directly resulted in late inning wins!
> 
> Last night's Peggin of Prince was like a slap inthe face to the whole team.........2 fastballs, first one over the head,  then one to the back of Prince, a well known, well liked player-by me too!



I'll have to disagree with this.  In no way do I believe it was intentional.  I believe the first pitch was an 86 mph breaking pitch that got away from him and apparently the fastball was off the mark.  It makes absolutely no sense to hit him intentionally.  There was no reason for retaliation and they were in the late innings, down by three runs with noone out.  You do not put the leadoff hitter on, for any reason.  I believe he's been hit twice because the Braves pitchers are trying to pitch him in on his hands.


----------



## Fishlipps Revisited

SFStephens said:


> Someone has to step up and start hitting the ball in the clutch.  McCann and Chippers RBI numbers are sad and it seems we lean on them for run production.  .



McCann just added 4 more with a Grand Salami...


----------



## SFStephens

Fishlipps Revisited said:


> McCann just added 4 more with a Grand Salami...



Maybe he browsed through the Woody's Sports Forum and noticed my post.......


----------



## Fishlipps Revisited

SFStephens said:


> Maybe he browsed through the Woody's Sports Forum and noticed my post.......



no....Glavine said that he told McCann to do something to thrill him today....


----------



## SFStephens

As long as Glavine's comment was baseball related, that's ok with me.....


----------



## SFStephens

Two Braves batters have been plunked, one of which was after a warning to both teams, and no ejection of the manager and pitcher.  Hmmmmm, apparently we are working with a new set of rules today.  Is it just me, or has the overall umpiring been pretty horrible this year?  Inconsistant and blown calls, inconsistant strike zones that must move DURING the game.......maybe its my imagination


----------



## Blue Iron

SFStephens said:


> Two Braves batters have been plunked, one of which was after a warning to both teams, and no ejection of the manager and pitcher. Hmmmmm, apparently we are working with a new set of rules today. Is it just me, or has the overall umpiring been pretty horrible this year? Inconsistant and blown calls, inconsistant strike zones that must move DURING the game.......maybe its my imagination


 

EXACTALY, you have got to toss the pitcher and the manager, at least in the SAME situation last night you "had to"

After nothing happening I would have nailed the first Brewer up to the plate the next inning. Fair is fair.


----------



## SFStephens

Blue Iron said:


> EXACTALY, you have got to toss the pitcher and the manager, at least in the SAME situation last night you "had to"
> 
> After nothing happening I would have nailed the first Brewer up to the plate the next inning. Fair is fair.



Same thing I was thinking. I'd have put one right in his back pocket. Serious inconsistency all year. And the Brewers manager wants to complain about his batters being hit while his players hang all over the plate. I remember when pitchers would run a fastball under a batter's chin for leaning out there.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Glad the Braves won & at least split the series.  Atlanta's bats were hot with 13 but gave up too many hits with 14 for the Brewers.  McCann's career high 5 RBI's along with his grand slam was super, but good seeing Diaz hitting well going 3 for 4 along with his homerun & 3 RBI game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_18_milmlb_atlmlb_1

Sunday, July 18, 2010:

Braves 11, Brewers 6

Sure was upsetting to see Milwaukee win 2 in a row on the Braves' home turf.  Wonder how long it's been this year since it last happened?


----------



## schleylures

Five up on the Mets 5.5 up on the phillies. Day off on Monday Looking foward to see a sweep of San Diego before we go to Fla for the weekend.


----------



## drhunter1

Did anyone notice who McCann hit that HR on and what the count was? It was against a left hander and the count was 0-2.  

Did anyone notice who McCann hit that double off of in the Allstar game? You guessed it.. It was another Lefty.

I can't wait to see how Bobby does the Lefty / Righty matchup in the San Diego series.


----------



## DSGB

He is getting back to his pre-vision problem form. Diaz is killing lefties, as well.


----------



## Resica

schleylures said:


> Five up on the Mets 5.5 up on the phillies. Day off on Monday Looking foward to see a sweep of San Diego before we go to Fla for the weekend.


----------



## drhunter1

Resica said:


>



Don't Worry R. The Phils ain't going away.  Anybody that thinks otherwise is crazy.


----------



## schleylures

the phillies went a half game away last night. I like it when the Braves do not even play and gain ground. Though series starts tonight almost the same record San Diego has one less loss then the Braves.


----------



## DSGB

Gained a half game on the Phillies and Mets.

MLB has suspended Venters four games and Bobby one game for hitting Fielder.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

venters out for 4 games is bigger than it seems.  he has been awesome...  I still like our chances against the Padres.  We've got Jair, Hanson, and Huddy going...


----------



## Resica

drhunter1 said:


> Don't Worry R. The Phils ain't going away.  Anybody that thinks otherwise is crazy.


We can only hope!!


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> venters out for 4 games is bigger than it seems.  he has been awesome...  I still like our chances against the Padres.  We've got Jair, Hanson, and Huddy going...



Yeah, I agree. Dunn is going to have to step up. I believe he will.


----------



## Twiggbuster

Braves have cooled off some but still holding a fair lead


----------



## drhunter1

DSGB said:


> Gained a half game on the Phillies and Mets.
> 
> MLB has suspended Venters four games and Bobby one game for hitting Fielder.



Yeah, that umpire needs to be suspended for being incompetent.


----------



## SFStephens

drhunter1 said:


> Yeah, that umpire needs to be suspended for being incompetent.



I agree. What an idiot and what a stupid suspension by MLB. That is a joke.


----------



## bfriendly

> I'll have to disagree with this. In no way do I believe it was intentional. I believe the first pitch was an 86 mph breaking pitch that got away from him and apparently the fastball was off the mark. It makes absolutely no sense to hit him intentionally. There was no reason for retaliation and they were in the late innings, down by three runs with noone out. You do not put the leadoff hitter on, for any reason. I believe he's been hit twice because the Braves pitchers are trying to pitch him in on his hands.
> __________________



I never said it was intentional, just rediculous!  I am totally in favor of plunking when the time is right

I dont think it was intentional, at least I am trying to convince myself of that...........



> Gained a half game on the Phillies and Mets.
> 
> MLB has suspended Venters four games and Bobby one game for hitting Fielder.



Did NOT see that coming

ANYWHO, that last game was awesome, and big Mac was just that, BIG MAC!!

Now we need to win the series with the Padres............Going to be a tough one you can bet! So far, the Braves have proved themselves........I would love to have seen a Fifth game with the Brewers.  What a series that was!


----------



## schleylures

we won the first against the padres and everyone else lost. Now if we can win two more. Cox served his suspension. Venters to appeal his in washington later this month. Jurrjens pitched good last night.


----------



## DSGB

Jurrjens was dealing, for sure. He got a little help from Melky in the first with a strong throw to the plate to get Eckstein. 
Diaz continues to dominate lefties and Heyward seems to be back to his early season form. He hit a couple balls hard last night, especially that laser to center that burned Gwynn.


----------



## drhunter1

I hear rumors of Diaz being traded. 

IMO opinion we don't need to mess up the chemistry by doing that. Who are they going to get thats playing better.  Time to leave that one alone Frank. Don't do it.


----------



## Jranger

Does Venters have to miss consecutive games or can they select which games he will miss?


----------



## DSGB

If the suspension sticks, it will be consecutive games. They even said last night the reason for the four game suspension. Relievers usually don't pitch every day, so ideally, he will miss two games.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> I hear rumors of Diaz being traded.
> 
> IMO opinion we don't need to mess up the chemistry by doing that. Who are they going to get thats playing better.  Time to leave that one alone Frank. Don't do it.



agree, I dont think he'll be traded, especially if he keeps this up.  this is why it was such a big deal to get heyward, diaz, and mclouth (in the lineup tonight) back with a couple of weeks before the deadline so they can really assess what they've got.  so far, heyward and diaz have come back hot.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> agree, I dont think he'll be traded, especially if he keeps this up.  this is why it was such a big deal to get heyward, diaz, and mclouth (in the lineup tonight) back with a couple of weeks before the deadline so they can really assess what they've got.  so far, heyward and diaz have come back hot.



McCleoth on the block if he doesn't come back hot then? I think that will be a bad move also.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> McCleoth on the block if he doesn't come back hot then? I think that will be a bad move also.



no, i dont think he's on the block, necessarily.  in fact, if he doesnt come back hot I dont see why anybody would be willing to give anything up for him.  

plus I'm with you, there's a really good baseball player in there somewhere... I'd rather us find him than some other team.

but I do think that will be one of the deciding factors on if we are out there trying to find another bat.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> I hear rumors of Diaz being traded.
> 
> IMO opinion we don't need to mess up the chemistry by doing that. Who are they going to get thats playing better.  Time to leave that one alone Frank. Don't do it.



NOW I have heard them.............it would be crazy to trade Diaz........he is a Big Part of our team chemistry and I really dont think ANY trades are necessary.  The only ones I can cenceive would be getting rid of KK and possibly McClouth............

Personally,  I think we have a team Right Now,  that can win it ALL!


----------



## huntindawg

If Wren is even thinking about trading Matty Ice, he needs to be kicked in the teeth...and so does Booby for not playing him more the past 2 years.

Who they gonna get for him that's A) hotter right now and B) a lifetime .300+ hitter???

No one........


----------



## schleylures

braves have got some very good calls tonight. I hate to sat the umps have missed a few, but we will take them. Going to the ninth up by two.


----------



## Blue Iron

schleylures said:


> braves have got some very good calls tonight. I hate to sat the umps have missed a few, but we will take them. Going to the ninth up by two.


 
Very true, it all evens out in the end though.

Dude just hit a solo HR off Wagner as I was typing, DANG!


----------



## Blue Iron

Well that sucks, HR, single and a double that scored him from first.

Tie ballgame, bottom of the 9th, come on Bravo's!


----------



## schleylures

going to the 12th


----------



## Nitram4891

Should have had this game...


----------



## gsubo

WWBD?

What in the world was Bobby thinkin?

Putting Medlen back out there for relief after how well he's been doing as a starter. I think he's earned his right as a starter.  This is the second time now in the last few days he's thrown Chris out there for relief. Makes no sense.

And then whats worse..a classic Bobby move. Intentionally walking a hitter only to face an even better hitter..just to force the Padres hand as the last bench player was up.  This one came back to bite us big time.

Sorry guys..just had to vent.  Tough Loss.


----------



## Nitram4891

gsubo said:


> WWBD?
> 
> What in the world was Bobby thinkin?
> 
> Putting Medlen back out there for relief after how well he's been doing as a starter. I think he's earned his right as a starter.  This is the second time now in the last few days he's thrown Chris out there for relief. Makes no sense.
> 
> And then whats worse..a classic Bobby move. Intentionally walking a hitter only to face an even better hitter..just to force the Padres hand as the last bench player was up.  This one came back to bite us big time.
> 
> Sorry guys..just had to vent.  Tough Loss.



Yeah that was tough move looking at it in hindsight.  It did open up force outs at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd instead of just first, but, at the same time how many ground balls really need to be thrown anywhere other than 1st?  With one out it would have been a no brainer but two?  Oh well...


----------



## bfriendly

Man what a Bummer...........

Gotta give props to an "Other" first place team.......They played like a first place team should..............they never gave up, never gave in.  Next game should be another good one.............hopefully we can come out on top!


----------



## Bitteroot

i stayed up for that.....


----------



## huntindawg

Another classic booby move...Venters was sailing along making people look stupid...his stuff is good enough for him to be in the closer roll.  Heck, he probably will be next year when Wag's gone since booby will be gone too (if he wasn't, I would bet money on that straight throwing Mike Dunn that got in the game last night...booby's always liked a straight, hard thrower as a closer).


----------



## DSGB

Tough game to lose, but at least they didn't lose any ground with both the Phils and Mets losing.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

gsubo said:


> WWBD?
> 
> What in the world was Bobby thinkin?
> 
> Putting Medlen back out there for relief after how well he's been doing as a starter. I think he's earned his right as a starter.  This is the second time now in the last few days he's thrown Chris out there for relief. Makes no sense.
> 
> And then whats worse..a classic Bobby move. Intentionally walking a hitter only to face an even better hitter..just to force the Padres hand as the last bench player was up.  This one came back to bite us big time.
> 
> Sorry guys..just had to vent.  Tough Loss.



Medlen is still a starter but was available from the 'pen because he wasn't used on this homestand.  They had an extra day off so they skipped his spot to keep the rest of the rotation on thier normal rest.  That happens all the time to the 5th starter.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Another classic booby move...Venters was sailing along making people look stupid...his stuff is good enough for him to be in the closer roll.  Heck, he probably will be next year when Wag's gone since booby will be gone too (if he wasn't, I would bet money on that straight throwing Mike Dunn that got in the game last night...booby's always liked a straight, hard thrower as a closer).



so you'd rather have Venters out there in his 3rd inning of relief rather than have Billy Wagner, one of the 3 or 4 best closers in the game? 

That's ridiculous.


----------



## huntindawg

When Venters is on, his stuff is unhittable...and there was no question he was on last night.  Run him back out there, and if he gets in trouble bring in Wag.  I've never been a huge fan of the closer roll when you have a man who obviously has his stuff working and has no problem throwing 2 2/3 innings.  Sure, if Venters had given a couple hits and it was obvious he didn't have it, put Wag in.


----------



## Twiggbuster

Give the Padres credit - they took the game.
Braves scored 4 runs with 2 out in the fourth but needed a couple more timely hits later in the game. I stayed up too. Good game. Go get um today.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> When Venters is on, his stuff is unhittable...and there was no question he was on last night.  Run him back out there, and if he gets in trouble bring in Wag.  I've never been a huge fan of the closer roll when you have a man who obviously has his stuff working and has no problem throwing 2 2/3 innings.  Sure, if Venters had given a couple hits and it was obvious he didn't have it, put Wag in.



I will take Wagner over Venters every day, no matter what.  Sometimes it doesn't work out...  not every save opp gets converted.  But I still go with Wagner in a save situation over Venters every time.


----------



## drhunter1

I don't think the Line-up had a very good approach at the plate last night. It's good to be patient but when the pitchers are showing you that they are wanting badly to get strike one, you better be swinging. Especially a staff that is this good.

I can't tell you how many strike ones I saw last night that were just grooved.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I will take Wagner over Venters every day, no matter what.  Sometimes it doesn't work out...  not every save opp gets converted.  But I still go with Wagner in a save situation over Venters every time.



I agree. Can't win em all. I told my wife that when they showed that graffic about how the Braves are the best in the league when leading after 8 that it was the kiss of death. I told her that they are going to get to Wagner every once in a while and sure enough they did.

BTW is anyone a fan of Ernie jr? His voice grates me.


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> BTW is anyone a fan of Ernie jr? His voice grates me.


 
Me too.


----------



## huntindawg

For the record, I'm not saying that Venters is/will be a better closer than Wagner.  I'm saying when his stuff is on, which it was last night, he's incredibly tough.  As I said, I've never been in favor of taking out a setup man who's got working, nasty stuff just to pad stats for a closer.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> For the record, I'm not saying that Venters is/will be a better closer than Wagner.  I'm saying when his stuff is on, which it was last night, he's incredibly tough.  As I said, I've never been in favor of taking out a setup man who's got working, nasty stuff just to pad stats for a closer.



IMO, when it is a 3-run game or less, it is never padding stats.  You put the guy out there that you feel gives you the best shot to get it done.  Wagner is always that guy.


----------



## BROWNING7WSM

Bitteroot said:


> i stayed up for that.....



Atleast you were not there like I was to watch it.  Thought we had it in the bag when Wagner came in.


----------



## Nitram4891

BROWNING7WSM said:


> Atleast you were not there like I was to watch it.  Thought we had it in the bag when Wagner came in.



Yeah that place gets pretty crazy when metallica comes on and wagner comes out!


----------



## Twiggbuster

I sorta like Ernie. Like him better on the Braves than on that TNT basketball thing. Could be worse- Tim McCarver, Valentine on God forbid- Joe Morgan.


----------



## DSGB

Hudson cruising through 7. Braves up 4-0!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

making up for last night... 8-0 in the 7th.

that's really great to bounce back.  would have been a rough plane ride to florida letting 2 games get away.  those are the kinds of things that turn a club upside down and start losing streaks.


----------



## DSGB

Ballgame! Some control issues for Mike Dunn, but Moylan mopped up nicely.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

DSGB said:


> Ballgame! Some control issues for Mike Dunn, but Moylan mopped up nicely.



we were a gnat's eyelash from sweeping the team with the best record in the league coming in...

now we ARE that team


----------



## bfriendly

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> IMO, when it is a 3-run game or less, it is never padding stats.  You put the guy out there that you feel gives you the best shot to get it done.  Wagner is always that guy.



And will be next time too!

BIG WIN for the Braves!

Gotta do some damage to the Marlins now


----------



## DSGB

How 'bout the two plays by the middle infielders? Prado's glove flip to first to get the speedy Durango. Then the back-handed glove flip by Gonzalez to start the inning-ending double play in the 8th. These two will be fun to watch!
He may not have the arm strength or be as flashy as Escobar, but Alex is very smooth and can flat out pick it. Plus, he had four hits in the game and got his first two RBIs with Atlanta.


----------



## paddlin samurai

Bobby likes Matty D. so i dont think they will trade him- i wish he would play him more though.  Billy W. was a big reason Venters was added to our roster.  He told Cox that the kid was ready now and didnt need to spend it in the minors so we might see him as the closer next year.  Give Wren his due- the Alex G. trade was a good one.


----------



## bfriendly

HOME RUN!! BRIAN McCANN!!!

If you could hear how loud I just yelled that!

Brian just tied the game with a 3 run BLAST- note 2 outs, 2 Strikes against a Lefty!!

WOW!! Tie game in the top of the 7th!


----------



## Arrow3

Tie game!!!


----------



## huntindawg

Hmmm....doc, guess that nasty stuff Saito had wouldn't have been good enough in the 9th?


----------



## Blue Iron

Well Mac just proved yet again he's not a great defensive catcher.


----------



## whitetaco02

Blue Iron said:


> Well Mac just proved yet again he's not a great defensive catcher.



That's two games in the last three that he costs them the win!


----------



## LanierSpots

I turned it on in the 8th.  Wished I hadnt..


----------



## Twiggbuster

That one hurt last night. BW looks scared to throw the heater. Gun shy I quess.He's got to get back on track. This is huge!


----------



## huntindawg

Looked like mac got crossed up to me. Looking for a breaking ball.


----------



## bfriendly

whitetaco02 said:


> That's two games in the last three that he costs them the win!



The stat will show another "Blown Save", by Wagner. Deservedly so cause I do believe he walked the first guy in the 9th, gave up the hit etc....

 That being said, we all know a MASSIVE ERROR, by my Hero Big Mac, was more costly than any lead off walk or giving up a hit.

Ya cant blame the loss on any ONE thing, it was a team loss,  it always will be a team loss or win, no matter who screwed up.

MAN That was painful!


----------



## Arrow3

bfriendly said:


> The stat will show another "Blown Save", by Wagner. Deservedly so cause I do believe he walked the first guy in the 9th, gave up the hit etc....
> 
> That being said, we all know a MASSIVE ERROR, by my Hero Big Mac, was more costly than any lead off walk or giving up a hit.
> 
> Ya cant blame the loss on any ONE thing, it was a team loss,  it always will be a team loss or win, no matter who screwed up.
> 
> MAN That was painful!




Plus the fact that the Braves wouldnt have even been in the game if BMac's 4 rbi's hadn't happened....


----------



## whitetaco02

bfriendly said:


> The stat will show another "Blown Save", by Wagner. Deservedly so cause I do believe he walked the first guy in the 9th, gave up the hit etc....
> 
> That being said, we all know a MASSIVE ERROR, by my Hero Big Mac, was more costly than any lead off walk or giving up a hit.
> 
> Ya cant blame the loss on any ONE thing, it was a team loss,  it always will be a team loss or win, no matter who screwed up.
> 
> MAN That was painful!



I know that NO game can ever be decided on just one play but I do believe it didn't help!

Arrow3, you are right about that!  

They should have won!  They left way too many guys on base last night!


----------



## whitetaco02

Boy I tell you what!  I was getting depressed watching the game!  

BUT




That 8th inning was SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BRAVES!!


----------



## schleylures

good game


----------



## bfriendly

*Surprised?*

Was anyone here really surprised about the AWESOME Comeback?  I was not surprised at all; maybe 8 in the 8th was a little more than I expected though.  In fact,  if they had NOT comeback,  I would have really been disappointed.
The game we lost the night before should also have been a Comeback Win,  but we Lost it on the Defensive side.

I think it only showed just how Good the Braves really are!

Maybe I am getting spoiled,  but the Braves are playing REALLY GOOD Baseball. They are easily one of, if not the best team in baseball.  Thats my .02

GO BRAVES!!


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> Was anyone here really surprised about the AWESOME Comeback?  I was not surprised at all; maybe 8 in the 8th was a little more than I expected though.  In fact,  if they had NOT comeback,  I would have really been disappointed.
> The game we lost the night before should also have been a Comeback Win,  but we Lost it on the Defensive side.
> 
> I think it only showed just how Good the Braves really are!
> 
> Maybe I am getting spoiled,  but the Braves are playing REALLY GOOD Baseball. They are easily one of, if not the best team in baseball.  Thats my .02
> 
> GO BRAVES!!



Yeah they did real good in FLA this weekend.


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> Yeah they did real good in FLA this weekend.


 

Yeah, played GOOD ball!


----------



## Twiggbuster

I hate that place in  fl!  They need to get in front of fans , any fans. that place stays empty.


----------



## DSGB

Some hard fought games in that series; Braves just came up short in two of them.


----------



## Hut2

Go Braves! ( Not Rays )


----------



## mikep

Was at the Fla Atl game on Sunday afternoon.  It was a nail biter for sure.  Yall still got a good lead on us though.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Yeah they did real good in FLA this weekend.



Oh I am feelin the pain too...........BET ON IT!


----------



## bfriendly

*Stgrassburg not pitching tonight*

Miguel Batista starting for Strassburg.........maybe the Braves were kind of let down as much as the DC Fans.......2nd inning and we are down 3 zip still no outs........tommy getting roughed up so far........C'MON Braves!!

SELL OUT croud......I wonder what the papers will say tomorrow about this.  Announcing Strassburg to start, they sell out, but a no start for strassburg.......I dont really care, but I sure do wish my Braves would show up

Strassburg did warm up but did not feel right,  so they benched him......

Hanson needs to work on his stretch move.......seems too easy to steal on him


----------



## drhunter1

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they put Glaus on the 15 day DL. He is hurting and his bat speed seems to have slowed. Not to mention that he takes a lot of strike 3 pitches. How can you not even swing at that last pitch.

Let Hinske play first for a while and bring up the first baseman at Gwinnett (his name is escaping me now).

Chipper makes a crucial error that costs us 2 runs and then reaches base the next inning and yucks it up with the first baseman. Pittiful.

If the Braves think they have this division in the bag, they got another thing coming.  They will be 3 1/2 up by the end of the night because the Phillies will feast on the D-backs bullpen.

Did anyone catch the article in the Gwinnett Daily Post today. McCann, Chipper and even Bobby said this feels like the 90's. Really? Well thats funny because you just lost 3 out of the last for and gave up 3 games in the standings just like that.

They better get their heads out of their rears get back on track and get their minds focused on winning or they will tank and lose this division in the blink of an eye.

Why make the guy pitching instead of Strausburg look like Strausburg???


----------



## Resica

Phils are up 9-5 in the 7th.


----------



## bfriendly

Rough day for the Braves................and the fans

UGH!!


----------



## gsubo

Braves seem to be sinking fast..


----------



## drhunter1

gsubo said:


> Braves seem to be sinking fast..



They are. Pitiful road trip so far.  

What I don't understand is why does Bobby give Chipper the days off and won't give Troy time to heal. It's painful to watch him walk and even more painful to watch him run.


----------



## Jranger

Any word on Venters appeal? I'm also curious why Diaz isn't starting. Are they trying to get some curb appeal on Henske or another player?


----------



## Blue Iron

Jranger said:


> Any word on Venters appeal? I'm also curious why Diaz isn't starting. Are they trying to get some curb appeal on Henske or another player?


 

I sure hope they don't deal Hinske.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

If you want to beat the Braves, just start some no-name they've never seen, they'll make him look like Roger Clemens.

I'd rather face Roy Halladay than face some no-name kid they've never seen before.

Still got 4.5 on the Phoolies.


----------



## huntindawg

Um, that's 3.5 doc...

Booby's gonna coach this team into a hole....

It's what booby does


----------



## bfriendly

huntindawg said:


> Um, that's 3.5 doc...
> 
> Booby's gonna coach this team into a hole....
> 
> It's what booby does



C'mon now.........BC Cannot play and no matter wether or not HIS execution is good or poor,  the Players have to execute in order to win, both sides of the ball.

The line ups we have had should have won EVERY GAME they played in........the other teams simply executed better than we did, got it done and we did NOT.  A coach cannot win a game,  and would have to do something REALLY FOOLISH in order to be totally responsible for any loss.

It is the Men on the Field that either win or lose a game.........Period.

Thats my .02    GO BRAVES!  

BTW-Nate went down to AAA so I am in total agreement with what the management staff has done........I would like to have seen Blanco come up,  but he is UNavailable.........something to do with Nate going Down,  but NOT on the DL. Blanco has to stay down for 10 days from when he went down to get Nate back up..............Nate failed on his return.

I Suppose the Braves could have played Political and LIED, said Nate was hurt so they could get Blanco up,  but again, I would rather see them be truthful, take the hit. Bring Blanco up next.........


----------



## Wiskey_33

huntindawg said:


> Um, that's 3.5 doc...
> 
> Booby's gonna coach this team into a hole....
> 
> It's what booby does



I heard 4.5 this morning.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Wiskey_33 said:


> I heard 4.5 this morning.



yeah last night I was thinking it was 3.5 and then I heard 4.5 on the radio...  I was like, "oh, its not as bad as I thought."

It is definitely 3.5, though.  3 in the W column and 4 in the L column.


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> C'mon now.........BC Cannot play and no matter wether or not HIS execution is good or poor,  the Players have to execute in order to win, both sides of the ball.
> 
> The line ups we have had should have won EVERY GAME they played in........the other teams simply executed better than we did, got it done and we did NOT.  A coach cannot win a game,  and would have to do something REALLY FOOLISH in order to be totally responsible for any loss.
> 
> It is the Men on the Field that either win or lose a game.........Period.
> 
> Thats my .02    GO BRAVES!
> 
> BTW-Nate went down to AAA so I am in total agreement with what the management staff has done........I would like to have seen Blanco come up,  but he is UNavailable.........something to do with Nate going Down,  but NOT on the DL. Blanco has to stay down for 10 days from when he went down to get Nate back up..............Nate failed on his return.
> 
> I Suppose the Braves could have played Political and LIED, said Nate was hurt so they could get Blanco up,  but again, I would rather see them be truthful, take the hit. Bring Blanco up next.........




Completely disagree. Why do we even have a manager if he doesn't count? Why are we having this fairwell tour if the manager doesn't mean that much.

He's the guy that pulls the strings and so far this season he's done a pretty good job. I love to hear, "Bobby can't play for them". Thats true, but it has nothing to do with the personel decisions he makes sometimes and when he isn't making the right personel decisions he should hear about it.

Bobby has been notorious for falling in love with players to a fault. Glaus is not hitting the ball. When he walks, he's a liability on the basepads. This has been going on for a several weeks now, but Bobby continues to play him even though he's hurt. Why? He's got no problem sitting Chipper when his Midol isn't working. Why won't he put in a hitter (Hinske) who's hitting better now?

Should he not be held accountable for any of the decisions he makes? I just find that ridiculous. Of course he should be held accountable. The buck stops with him.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

the simple answer for not playing hinkse goes like this:

first, hinske is a lh hitter in a lineup chock full of lefties.  plus we've faced a lot of lefties lately.

second, hinkse is a 4th outfielder and we kinda need him there.

im not saying save him for those situations all of the time.  bobby needs to start him at 1B every now and then to give Glaus a day off, anyways.  especially now that glaus is on a cold streak.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Ouch, that hurts having the Braves 1st place lead now cut down to 3.5 games.  

Resica ought to be proud with his PA team being on FIRE with 6 wins in a row.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Completely disagree. Why do we even have a manager if he doesn't count? Why are we having this fairwell tour if the manager doesn't mean that much.
> 
> He's the guy that pulls the strings and so far this season he's done a pretty good job. I love to hear, "Bobby can't play for them". Thats true, but it has nothing to do with the personel decisions he makes sometimes and when he isn't making the right personel decisions he should hear about it.
> 
> Bobby has been notorious for falling in love with players to a fault. Glaus is not hitting the ball. When he walks, he's a liability on the basepads. This has been going on for a several weeks now, but Bobby continues to play him even though he's hurt. Why? He's got no problem sitting Chipper when his Midol isn't working. Why won't he put in a hitter (Hinske) who's hitting better now?
> 
> Should he not be held accountable for any of the decisions he makes? I just find that ridiculous. Of course he should be held accountable. The buck stops with him.



Remember during spring training,  when Glaus was batting aout 750? Then the season started and he struggled, big time. THen again he came alive and became our biggest run producer-now we all expect for him to hit it out of the park every time he steps to the plate.

All I am saying is that it doesn't matter if he makes a decision we agree with or dont. Lets say wether or not he makes the Correct decision. If the Players dont execute, they will lose and we will all be playin Monday Quarterback.

He can make the Worst decision possible,  but if the players execute,  win the game, then we think he is a Genius?
I personally dont buy into the Bobby is in LOVE with whoever, WHATEVER!  Wagner blew two saves in a row,  but he came in and got it done last night; that means he EXECUTED. What if he blew another one? Would we be sitting here saying "I cant believe Bobby put him back in there"?
Maybe Bobby is in LOVE with him

Just MHO, but I dont think any decisions are made in this club without a thorough thought process of what is best for the team............that may include "Showcasing" a player for an upcoming trade Deadline, it may be another chance for redemption for a struggling player..........how many times have we been Banging our heads over Nate McClouths recent at bats, AND NOT throwing the ball from Center field?  I have been wanting to ring his neck and put him on a bus SOUTHbound for a long time now..........

Point being, I dont think BC will do anything to favor anyone in the club...........he is a great manager because he always has the TEAM in mind.......but that is just my .02


----------



## bfriendly

Resica said:


> Phils are up 9-5 in the 7th.



They just wont go away will they?  Dont think for a second I am rootin for your boys from Philly!

Just sayin..............they wont go away and WE have a long way to go!!

GO BRAVES!!

BTW-I have a blue Braves T-shirt that must be bad luck, cause everytime I wear it,  the Braves lose........I also have a grey one that seems to have a better record.........The Blue T-shirt is in the garbage can after the loss to the Nats.  I had a bad feeling when I put it on, NO MAS!  I tossed it and wore the grey one last night!!

I did like it so I guess I will have to find me another one


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

bfriendly said:


> Wagner blew two saves in a row,  but he came in and got it done last night; that means he EXECUTED. What if he blew another one? Would we be sitting here saying "I cant believe Bobby put him back in there"?



A lot of people on this board would...


----------



## drhunter1

> Remember during spring training,  when Glaus was batting aout 750? Then the season started and he struggled, big time. THen again he came alive and became our biggest run producer-now we all expect for him to hit it out of the park every time he steps to the plate.


No but he can expect him to drive some runs in cant you. He's hurt and playing hurt and it's affecting his production. Meanwhile Hinske is hitting the ball pretty good.



> All I am saying is that it doesn't matter if he makes a decision we agree with or dont. Lets say wether or not he makes the Correct decision. If the Players dont execute, they will lose and we will all be playin Monday Quarterback.


When he pulls the right strings he gets credit for being a great manager. When he pulls the wrong strings, shouldn't he be accountable?



> He can make the Worst decision possible,  but if the players execute,  win the game, then we think he is a Genius?
> I personally dont buy into the Bobby is in LOVE with whoever, WHATEVER!  Wagner blew two saves in a row,  but he came in and got it done last night; that means he EXECUTED. What if he blew another one? Would we be sitting here saying "I cant believe Bobby put him back in there"?
> Maybe Bobby is in LOVE with him



No you cannot blame Bobby for his players not executing and no one is, but this whole mentality that Bobby is untouchable when he makes a bonehead decision due to his love afair with his players even when they are struggling when he has a better option is ridiculous.



> Just MHO, but I dont think any decisions are made in this club without a thorough thought process of what is best for the team............that may include "Showcasing" a player for an upcoming trade Deadline, it may be another chance for redemption for a struggling player..........how many times have we been Banging our heads over Nate McClouths recent at bats, AND NOT throwing the ball from Center field?  I have been wanting to ring his neck and put him on a bus SOUTHbound for a long time now..........



It is the organizations right to do that, but when the Braves lose a game as a result, Bobby isn't to be held accountable? Isn't the goal to win games? As John Shurholz said the other day, this isn't the developmental league.




> Point being, I dont think BC will do anything to favor anyone in the club...........he is a great manager because he always has the TEAM in mind.......but that is just my .02.



He does it all the time, but when anyone points it out they are in the wrong.

I love Bobby Cox as much as anyone, but he is the Manager and he is by no means perfect and he doesn't walk on water. Some of his decisions have cost the Braves wins and in that, he gets the blame, just like he gets the praise when they win. 

How is that not fair?


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Ouch, that hurts again to lose today & lose the series to last place Nationals.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_07_29_atlmlb_wasmlb_1

Thursday, July 29, 2010:

Nationals 5, Braves 3 


Hope they can start back to winning again with their next game in  Cincinnati.


----------



## LanierSpots

Yep.  We wont hold off the phils playing 500 ball.  They are coming hard.  Need a good series against the reds


----------



## Resica

Phils won in 11, 3-2 .


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> No but he can expect him to drive some runs in cant you. He's hurt and playing hurt and it's affecting his production. Meanwhile Hinske is hitting the ball pretty good.
> 
> 
> When he pulls the right strings he gets credit for being a great manager. When he pulls the wrong strings, shouldn't he be accountable?
> 
> 
> 
> No you cannot blame Bobby for his players not executing and no one is, but this whole mentality that Bobby is untouchable when he makes a bonehead decision due to his love afair with his players even when they are struggling when he has a better option is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the organizations right to do that, but when the Braves lose a game as a result, Bobby isn't to be held accountable? Isn't the goal to win games? As John Shurholz said the other day, this isn't the developmental league.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He does it all the time, but when anyone points it out they are in the wrong.
> 
> I love Bobby Cox as much as anyone, but he is the Manager and he is by no means perfect and he doesn't walk on water. Some of his decisions have cost the Braves wins and in that, he gets the blame, just like he gets the praise when they win.
> 
> How is that not fair?



I dont remember sayin he should not be held accountable, walks on water or is untouchable.  Everyone is accountable for their actions, including Bobby Cox.  
But it is alot easier to play Monday Quarterback than to actually have to make the decision and Live with the consequences.......BTW-I am glad to see you love him as much as I do

I too have scratched my head at some of his Boneheaded decisions, wondering what the heck is he thinking.........Many times I would have SAT someone like Escobar with the QUICKNESS!  Or I would have pulled a starter before he did and left a BP pitcher in there longer...........I get PO'd plenty, trust me.

I guess where I disagree with you is the whole Bobby being in LOVE with some players thing.  That is NOT a Fact, but rather,  a debatable opinion.........While I know in some instances, I may LOSE that Debate, I will always argue on the side of Bobby NOT being in LOVE with anyone on his team.

BTW-I agree that Troy needs a few days off............


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> I dont remember sayin he should not be held accountable, walks on water or is untouchable.  Everyone is accountable for their actions, including Bobby Cox.
> But it is alot easier to play Monday Quarterback than to actually have to make the decision and Live with the consequences.......BTW-I am glad to see you love him as much as I do
> 
> I too have scratched my head at some of his Boneheaded decisions, wondering what the heck is he thinking.........Many times I would have SAT someone like Escobar with the QUICKNESS!  Or I would have pulled a starter before he did and left a BP pitcher in there longer...........I get PO'd plenty, trust me.
> 
> I guess where I disagree with you is the whole Bobby being in LOVE with some players thing.  That is NOT a Fact, but rather,  a debatable opinion.........While I know in some instances, I may LOSE that Debate, I will always argue on the side of Bobby NOT being in LOVE with anyone on his team.
> 
> BTW-I agree that Troy needs a few days off............




I don't mean he's in LOVE with them, I just mean he's overly confident of their skills some times. Strictly plutonic.
I give you Jesse Chavez as exhibit A. Why he's not in AAA I have no idea.

Melky Carbera as exibit B. Can't hit in the clutch worth squat, yet he gets trotted out there almost every night.

Do you think Jason Heyward could play Center? I do. I certainly think he couldn't do any worse than Melky and he can hit better.

That leaves right open for Diaz and left open for Hinske or Infante or vise versa. At that point we have 3 outfielders who can hit pretty well in the line up every night. We may give up a little defensively, but we have superior pitching for the most part.

It's time to put the best players/hitters on the field.

Thats what I'm talking about. I don't think he puts them in the best situation to win each and every time and I think he has been guilty of waiting too late to make a shake up in the line up or in the field. He waits until we've lost several games or even several series and then he makes an adjustment. Thats where everyone gets the impression that he's in "love" with certain players.

This is no longer a long season. The walls are closing in on it quick. In the past he's gotten away with that but thats because nobody was better in our division. That aint the case any more. Thus far he seems to have made changes quicker than he normally would have. I hope he continues to do that.

He said in an article earlier this week that it feels like the 90's.  Well it's getting ready to feel like the mid to late 2000's fast.


----------



## huntindawg

The heck with all this talk about JHey in center.  McClouth should have never been brought back up.  We had a guy who maybe made 1 error out there hitting over .300 and we pull him and send him to make room for a guy batting .172??? How in the world does that make any sense.  You leave Blanco out there til Nate gets it back in AAA. Plain and simple. 

You put Jhey in right and put Diaz in left until he shows that he can't hit a righty unless his life depended on it (Diaz hits lifetime .271 against righties, Melky a cool .273) Which leads to this question---WHY DO WE HAVE CABRERA ON THE TEAM??????????
Wren knew what he was when he got him..he's a lifetime ~.260 hitter that average 9 HRs a year.  We have Hinske, who for ~.005 less BA points gives you twice as many HRs and more RBIs every year (not to mention he's obviously seeing the ball really well this year).  And now, because Wren brought Melky in and we had Diaz and JHey and Mcclouth get hurt and Melky played, Booby's stupid butt HAS to be loyal to him and keep trotting him out there.  But he can't be loyal to Blanco???  

So w/ an outfield of Diaz, Blanco, JHey, and Infante, Booby could then spell Glaus (who's obviously not himself right now--I think he hit about .205 in July w/ no HRs) w/ Hinske at first.  It's obvious Glaus needs a little time off but Booby just keeps trotting him out there.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> I don't mean he's in LOVE with them, I just mean he's overly confident of their skills some times. Strictly plutonic.
> I give you Jesse Chavez as exhibit A. Why he's not in AAA I have no idea.
> 
> Melky Carbera as exibit B. Can't hit in the clutch worth squat, yet he gets trotted out there almost every night.
> 
> Do you think Jason Heyward could play Center? I do. I certainly think he couldn't do any worse than Melky and he can hit better.
> 
> That leaves right open for Diaz and left open for Hinske or Infante or vise versa. At that point we have 3 outfielders who can hit pretty well in the line up every night. We may give up a little defensively, but we have superior pitching for the most part.
> 
> It's time to put the best players/hitters on the field.
> 
> Thats what I'm talking about. I don't think he puts them in the best situation to win each and every time and I think he has been guilty of waiting too late to make a shake up in the line up or in the field. He waits until we've lost several games or even several series and then he makes an adjustment. Thats where everyone gets the impression that he's in "love" with certain players.
> 
> This is no longer a long season. The walls are closing in on it quick. In the past he's gotten away with that but thats because nobody was better in our division. That aint the case any more. Thus far he seems to have made changes quicker than he normally would have. I hope he continues to do that.
> 
> He said in an article earlier this week that it feels like the 90's.  Well it's getting ready to feel like the mid to late 2000's fast.



Believe it or not,  we are so on the same page!

I know Lowe has a good record, but I would be ok if he never stepped on the mound again in a Braves uniform.
Can we get anything for him?


----------



## Resica

Phils and Oswalt lose 8-1.


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Phils and Oswalt lose 8-1.


 
Didn't look real sharp did he?

Come on Bravo's! Need a run or 3 right here!

Johnny V grooved that first pitch to Voto....


----------



## Resica

No he didn't, get em next time.


----------



## Blue Iron

WOW, Conrad did it again and was robbed. Just wow.


----------



## gsubo

And why does Brooks not have a starting position yet for us???

Oh yea..Bobby Cox.  That boy needs to be playin everyday..I dont  even care where.


----------



## Blue Iron

gsubo said:


> And why does Brooks not have a starting position yet for us???
> 
> Oh yea..Bobby Cox. That boy needs to be playin everyday..I dont even care where.


 
I just told my wife the same thing, look how many HR's he has and he's hardly played.


----------



## gsubo

Blue Iron said:


> I just told my wife the same thing, look how many HR's he has and he's hardly played.



If Bobby would make two changes we'd win a world series this year..but he sure aint gonna sit Chipper for Brooks to start everyday and it dont look like he's gonna make a move to get a decent centerfielder. 

Oh well..


----------



## Blue Iron

gsubo said:


> If Bobby would make two changes we'd win a world series this year..but he sure aint gonna sit Chipper for Brooks to start everyday and it dont look like he's gonna make a move to get a decent centerfielder.
> 
> Oh well..


 
Well it really ain't his decision to make a move for an outfielder.

Way to go Heyward with the 2 RBI's!

Sure hope Prado ain't hurt bad....


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Resica said:


> No he didn't, get em next time.



Oswalt hasn't looked like he has cared about a baseball game in about 3 years.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

gsubo said:


> And why does Brooks not have a starting position yet for us???
> 
> Oh yea..Bobby Cox.  That boy needs to be playin everyday..I dont  even care where.



Just because players come off the bench and produce does not mean they are going to keep up that pace if they were to play full time.  Players have proven that over and over and over.  It is much more valuable to keep some people on the bench for moments just like tonic where they can make a big impact.

And I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of people saying stiff like Brooks Conrad should be starting over chipper jones or saito should be closing instead of Wagner.  I mean come on.  There's a reason Wagner and chipper are headed for the hall and Conrad and saito will have to buy a ticket to visit cooperstown.  Producers who have proven that they are reliable producers are the guys you want in the starting lineup and the other guys have to make the best of their chances.  That's what keeps a guy like Conrad on edge...

Sorry about the spelling and typos. This iPad is kinda tough to type on.

Oh, btw, big win tonight.  Would have been a really bad loss, plus we gained a game on the phools and Muts.


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Just because players come off the bench and produce does not mean they are going to keep up that pace if they were to play full time. Players have proven that over and over and over. It is much more valuable to keep some people on the bench for moments just like tonic where they can make a big impact.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of people saying stiff like Brooks Conrad should be starting over chipper jones or saito should be closing instead of Wagner. I mean come on. There's a reason Wagner and chipper are headed for the hall and Conrad and saito will have to buy a ticket to visit cooperstown. Producers who have proven that they are reliable producers are the guys you want in the starting lineup and the other guys have to make the best of their chances. That's what keeps a guy like Conrad on edge...
> 
> Sorry about the spelling and typos. This iPad is kinda tough to type on.
> 
> Oh, btw, big win tonight. Would have been a really bad loss, plus we gained a game on the phools and Muts.


 
I agree there is no way Brooks should be starting over Chip, or Saito closing over Wagner. 

By the same token look at what Prado has done as an everyday player. Its almost aggravating to have such good players on the bench...I would lots rather see Infante get Melky's starts in CF.....


----------



## Blue Iron

BTW can Conrad play the OF?


----------



## drhunter1

Blue Iron said:


> BTW can Conrad play the OF?



Yes he could. He won't because Bobby woudn't do that,but he could.  Remember growing up, outfield was the place they stuck you if you couldn't field the ball as well as others. If you can play 3rd base, you can play left or right field. 

Conrad is fast and athletic. He could play outfield.


----------



## bfriendly

Blue Iron said:


> WOW, Conrad did it again and was robbed. Just wow.



NO DOUBT!!



> Just because players come off the bench and produce does not mean they are going to keep up that pace if they were to play full time. Players have proven that over and over and over. It is much more valuable to keep some people on the bench for moments just like tonic where they can make a big impact.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of people saying stiff like Brooks Conrad should be starting over chipper jones or saito should be closing instead of Wagner. I mean come on. There's a reason Wagner and chipper are headed for the hall and Conrad and saito will have to buy a ticket to visit cooperstown. Producers who have proven that they are reliable producers are the guys you want in the starting lineup and the other guys have to make the best of their chances. That's what keeps a guy like Conrad on edge...
> 
> Sorry about the spelling and typos. This iPad is kinda tough to type on.
> 
> Oh, btw, big win tonight. Would have been a really bad loss, plus we gained a game on the phools and Muts.



Totally agree with this........there are alot of players that do better coming in off the bench and playing only 2 or 3 innings versus when they start..............dont know why, but it sure seems that way!


----------



## bfriendly

nonetheless, another BIG WIN against another FIRST PLACE Team!!  Way to go Braves!!

Losses to the Phils and Mets, puts us back to 3.5 games up!!

Need another big win tonight!!


----------



## Arrow3

Anyone heard how bad Prado is hurt?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

CBS says this about Prado:

Prado leaves game with jammed finger: Braves 2B Martin Prado injured a finger on his right hand in the top of the 10th inning of Friday's game at the Reds. He appeared to have his hand stepped on by catcher Ramon Hernandez as he scored on a Jason Heyward two-run single. Prado went for X-rays after the game and according to MLB.com X-rays on Prado's right pinky were inconclusive. Prado went 1 for 5 with an RBI and two runs scored before being replaced by Alex Gonzalez in the bottom of the 10th.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> CBS says this about Prado:
> 
> Prado leaves game with jammed finger: Braves 2B Martin Prado injured a finger on his right hand in the top of the 10th inning of Friday's game at the Reds. He appeared to have his hand stepped on by catcher Ramon Hernandez as he scored on a Jason Heyward two-run single. Prado went for X-rays after the game and according to MLB.com X-rays on Prado's right pinky were inconclusive. Prado went 1 for 5 with an RBI and two runs scored before being replaced by Alex Gonzalez in the bottom of the 10th.




If Infante has to step in, I don't believe we lose that much. I have confidence in him to do the job, just like he did when Escobar was hurt.

Also the report last night was that he rolled over on his left hand on the slide. I didn't see where he got stepped on. I believe CBS as usual doesn't have their facts straight.


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> NO DOUBT!!
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree with this........there are alot of players that do better coming in off the bench and playing only 2 or 3 innings versus when they start..............dont know why, but it sure seems that way!



Infante was awesome when he was playing for Escobar everyday. I think some players just need a chance, but thats just my opinion.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> If Infante has to step in, I don't believe we lose that much. I have confidence in him to do the job, just like he did when Escobar was hurt.
> 
> Also the report last night was that he rolled over on his left hand on the slide. I didn't see where he got stepped on. I believe CBS as usual doesn't have their facts straight.



Yeah I dont think he got stepped on.  If it's just jammed he might miss a game or two because he might not be able to throw.

Edit... Nbcsports says it's his right pinkie finger.  Xrays are inconclusive.  Pinkie doesn't affect throwing all that much, IMO.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> If Infante has to step in, I don't believe we lose that much. I have confidence in him to do the job, just like he did when Escobar was hurt.
> 
> Also the report last night was that he rolled over on his left hand on the slide. I didn't see where he got stepped on. I believe CBS as usual doesn't have their facts straight.



You said it Brother!! GOOOD GRIEF!  he rolled his hand underneathe himself when he slid home.......Perfect replay of the roll over!  CBS is such a joke!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Good win for the Braves last nite keeping a decent lead in 1st place.

Surprised to see last nite where the last place Nationals ended the Phillies 8-game winning streak where both are playing well & give Atlanta tough games.

I'm sure the TV reports have more recent updates, but in case folks have not seen it on the Braves' web site, here's an update on Prado:  

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/...12842712&vkey=notebook_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl 

Prado's injured pinky to get a closer look

By Mark Bowman / MLB.com

07/31/10 1:36 AM ET

CINCINNATI -- Braves second baseman Martin Prado injured his right pinky while sliding head-first across the plate with an insurance run in the 10th inning of Friday night's 6-4 win over the Reds at Great American Ball Park.

X-rays taken immediately after the game were inconclusive. Prado will be re-examined Saturday morning.

While hustling from first base to score on Jason Heyward's game-winning double, Prado stretched toward the plate and appeared to awkwardly land on the right side of his right hand. He remained on the ground for a few minutes while being examined by Braves head trainer Jeff Porter.

Prado ranks second in the National League with a .315 batting average. Atlanta's offense ended its early-season woes after he moved into the lineup's leadoff spot in the middle of May.

If the Braves learn that Prado could miss an extended period of time, they may be further persuaded to attempt to upgrade their offense before Saturday's 4 p.m. ET non-waiver Trade Deadline.

With Prado unavailable to play the bottom of the 10th Friday night, Omar Infante was moved to second base. Alex Gonzalez, who is battling a painful case of gastritis, was forced to enter the game and play shortstop.

If Gonzalez and Prado are both unavailable Saturday, the Braves may play Brooks Conrad at second base and utilize Infante at the shortstop position.


----------



## huntindawg

Attaboy bobby. Why take jj out after all the hits and runs??  Didn't have enough energy in your stupid butt to go get him before that??


----------



## gsubo

huntindawg said:


> Attaboy bobby. Why take jj out after all the hits and runs??  Didn't have enough energy in your stupid butt to go get him before that??



My thoughts exactly.  JJ pitched a great game..but once again..the move was made to late.  

I've never seen a manager leave some one in when he should be taken out AND take someone out when he should be left in so many times in my life.  

Its a shame..he woulda took Huddy Or DLowe outta there before it got too ugly for those guys Im sure.


Im just about over Bobby..Im ready to see what next year will hold.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Sorry about the Braves loss today, but looks like the Nationals helped us out again beating the Phillies so Atlanta keeps their 3.5 game lead.  

Saw the local TV news tonight where it's reported that Prado is out for 7-10 days.  

Hope Atlanta's trade with Kansas City today helps in giving up 3 folks to get 2 players.  I don't follow baseball close enough to make an assessment on the trade but maybe we can hear some enlightened analysis from those that are much better informed.  Here's a couple quotes below:  

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5426623

Royals trade Ankiel, Farnsworth 

July 31, 2010 

The Atlanta Braves made a five-player deal Saturday to upgrade their outfield and an already formidable bullpen, acquiring Rick Ankiel and right-hander Kyle Farnsworth from Kansas City for three players. 

Atlanta sent reliever Jesse Chavez, outfielder Gregor Blanco and minor league pitcher Tim Collins to the Royals. Kansas City included cash in the deal.


----------



## Resica

Lidge and the Phils blew a one run lead in the 9th and lost by 2. Want Lidge?


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Lidge and the Phils blew a one run lead in the 9th and lost by 2. Want Lidge?


 
No. We will take Ryan Howard though......LOL

Glad to see the Phils let another slip away.


----------



## schleylures

the way Atlanta are playin we need all the help we can get


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Resica said:


> Lidge and the Phils blew a one run lead in the 9th and lost by 2. Want Lidge?



Report is that Ryan Howard hurt his ankle today and had to be helped off the field.  Anybody heard details?

Ugh... I'm having a hard time watching this team right now.  Heyward diving when he shouldn't have, boot by agon, reds lead 2-1.


----------



## huntindawg

And melky looks like a fool at the plate....again.


----------



## Blue Iron

Dang, this is getting pitiful.....

At least the Mets will lose and the Phils are losing.


----------



## Resica

Phils are tied in the  7th, however there's still plenty of time to lose it.


----------



## drhunter1

Thanks Bobby for trotting no hitting Melky back out there.

Why did we even get Ankiel?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Thanks Bobby for trotting no hitting Melky back out there.
> 
> Why did we even get Ankiel?



Melky hits about 60 points higher against righties than diaz...


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Melky hits about 60 points higher against righties than diaz...



Are you talking about this year??  Cause the numbers I posted are career numbers. He hits .002 higher off righties than Diaz.


----------



## huntindawg

I can't believe anyone would defend cabrera and bobby's decision to play him. He looked terrible all day. Diaz comes in and almost ties the game with 1 swing.


----------



## Resica

Phils win in 11 and Lidge doesn't blow it today.


----------



## drhunter1

doc_holliday23 said:


> melky hits about 60 points higher against righties than diaz...



risp?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Are you talking about this year??  Cause the numbers I posted are career numbers. He hits .002 higher off righties than Diaz.



this year.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> I can't believe anyone would defend cabrera and bobby's decision to play him. He looked terrible all day. Diaz comes in and almost ties the game with 1 swing.



_almost_?  who gives a crap about _almost_?  _almost_ is a a fly out.

Here is all you need to know about why we lost yesterday:  Braves RISP: *1-10 *(O Infante 1-2, C Jones 0-1, A Gonzalez 0-1, E Hinske 0-2, J Heyward 0-1, T Hanson 0-1, R Ankiel 0-1, B McCann 0-1)


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> risp?



melky .225 (20 for 89) with 23 rbi
diaz .290 (9 for 31) 11 rbi

but BA against righty trumps RISP because you may or may not have RISP but you will DEFINITELY be hitting against a righty.

I don't like Melky anymore than you guys, but Diaz needs to figure out how to hit righties and then he'll be an everyday player.  He has done ok in the past against righties but when they tried to play him everday his production went way down.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> melky .225 (20 for 89) with 23 rbi
> diaz .290 (9 for 31) 11 rbi
> 
> but BA against righty trumps RISP because you may or may not have RISP but you will DEFINITELY be hitting against a righty.
> 
> I don't like Melky anymore than you guys, but Diaz needs to figure out how to hit righties and then he'll be an everyday player.  He has done ok in the past against righties but when they tried to play him everday his production went way down.




Let me try to make this a little more clear for you:

Diaz: vs RH starters (which would mean to me he started or was in the game early on): *.261*

Melky vs RH starters: *.264*


Diaz's lifetime average as a starter: *.310*

Melky's lifetime average as a starter: *.270*


So, for .003 BA points (which is maybe 2 hits a season??) against RH starting pitchers, Booby is giving up .040 BA points for the entire year????  How in the world does that make any sense?????????


Please, quit using the argument that the reason he's not starting is cause can't he can't hit RH pitching cause it's obvious by that definition that neither can Melky.

The real argument here is how stupid is Booby cause he can't go to baseball reference.com and look at a few stats and put the best player out there????  And if you're going for the what has he done for me lately points, you dang sure have to start Diaz.  


Listen, I'm not saying starting Diaz would have had a major outcome in the game(s) this past series.  But the combination of sending Blanco down and not giving Glaus a rest deserves to win Booby the dumbest coach of the year award.


----------



## drhunter1

Yeah, but everytime he seems to get hot he gets yanked from the line-up.  

If there is a runner at 2nd base and Mekly is up, 2 outs, he's going to make an out. If there's one out and runners on 1st and 2nd, a double play. Especially from the right. Count on it.

Can you honestly say that when you see Melky come up with runners in scoring position, you feel better about him over Diaz getting the job done?


----------



## Jranger

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> melky .225 (20 for 89) with 23 rbi
> diaz .290 (9 for 31) 11 rbi
> 
> but BA against righty trumps RISP because you may or may not have RISP but you will DEFINITELY be hitting against a righty.
> 
> I don't like Melky anymore than you guys, but Diaz needs to figure out how to hit righties and then he'll be an everyday player.  He has done ok in the past against righties but when they tried to play him everday his production went way down.



Diaz has his problems like everyone else, but he's not getting much of a shot at the plate other than PH or late inning relief for Hinske. He needs more at bats to improve his stats...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Yeah, but everytime he seems to get hot he gets yanked from the line-up.
> 
> If there is a runner at 2nd base and Mekly is up, 2 outs, he's going to make an out. If there's one out and runners on 1st and 2nd, a double play. Especially from the right. Count on it.
> 
> Can you honestly say that when you see Melky come up with runners in scoring position, you feel better about him over Diaz getting the job done?



did you read my post?  I can't stand Melky, but the numbers against RHP don't lie.  That is why he was in the game yesterday.  In late inning situations with RISP, yes I'd rather see Diaz in there.  In fact, I'd rather see Diaz in there full-time, even though he has shown when given everyday PT, that he really wasnt up for it.  I just cant stand Melky.  

And huntingdawg, you can't just pick and choose stats like that.  Its not an accurate depiction.  BTW... Diaz's lifetime average as a starter is so high BECAUSE HE STARTS WHEN A LEFTY IS ON THE MOUND.

and what did bobby do as soon as he got another viable outfielder?  he sat Glaus and had hinske playing first.


----------



## Nitram4891

Yesterday's game was excrutiating to watch.  Hanson pitched a great game and gets hurt by Heywards dive and Gonzo's error.  Volquez was all over the place but Braves could never make him pay, he did manage to get some key outs but I think I credit those more to the braves terrible hitting.  I think they left 33 on base in the three game series.  Offense better wake up.


----------



## SFStephens

The problem is they've averaged 2.5 runs per game over the last six games. No one is hitting with RISP. No run production. Given something like seven walks yesterday and only managed one run. I don't agree with some of BC's personnel decisions either, but the problem is deeper than that.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

heyward's dive was ill-advised youthful exuberance.  Bad timing for a Gonzo error.  he's usually very sure-handed.

you guys are exactly right... there has been absolutely no hitting with RISP lately.

thankfully we are back home tonight playing a mets team that is anything but hot and we've got our ace on the mound.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> And huntingdawg, you can't just pick and choose stats like that.  Its not an accurate depiction.  BTW... Diaz's lifetime average as a starter is so high BECAUSE HE STARTS WHEN A LEFTY IS ON THE MOUND.
> 
> and what did bobby do as soon as he got another viable outfielder?  he sat Glaus and had hinske playing first.



Pick and choose???? Man, you would make a great politician...

Did you even read my post?

Diaz's career average against *STARTING* RH pitchers is .261. He's started 107 games against RIGHT HANDED PITCHING and he's got 161 hits from 616 ABs.

That's an average of .261...to get an average here you would divide the number of hits by the number of at bats.  That equals .261 in this case.

For Mr. Cabrera, he's started 403 games against RHs and has 413 hits from 1565 ABs.  That's an average of .264.  

To put this in perspective, if Matty had 2 more hits in those 107 starts, his average would round to .265.


How can you say those stats are misleading????

Yes, I know that Matty has started more games against LHP (215 to be exact, and he bats .337 in these games) but I didn't say anything about those. 


As to your last statement about getting another viable outfielder, what in the heck was Blanco?  I think he was doing a little better than just being considered serviceable out there.  The Braves were 11-6 in games were he started.  

As soon as he got another viable OF????? What does that even mean? We still had 5 OFs that could have played LF or RF without Hinske (Heyward, Infante, Diaz, Cabrera, Clevlen and even Conrad could play out there if needed).

Here's a better Q:  What did Bobby do when he got a OF batting .162 back from the DL??

Replaced an OF hitting .300+ and sent him to AAA.

Attaboy Booby, attaboy.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> did you read my post?  I can't stand Melky, but the numbers against RHP don't lie.  That is why he was in the game yesterday.  In late inning situations with RISP, yes I'd rather see Diaz in there.  In fact, I'd rather see Diaz in there full-time, even though he has shown when given everyday PT, that he really wasnt up for it.  I just cant stand Melky.
> 
> And huntingdawg, you can't just pick and choose stats like that.  Its not an accurate depiction.  BTW... Diaz's lifetime average as a starter is so high BECAUSE HE STARTS WHEN A LEFTY IS ON THE MOUND.
> 
> and what did bobby do as soon as he got another viable outfielder?  he sat Glaus and had hinske playing first.



Yeah I read your post. It was defending Bobby for putting Melky in over Diaz because of RH Avg. 

Did you read my post?

All I did was disagree with that assessment by making the point that we are never going to know if Diaz won't do better if he never gets to a chance to feel comfortable against righties because he won't play him against him. 

I believe he'll do fine if given a chance. 

But it's true. Nobody is hitting well right now and it was good to see Glaus on the bench. I just don't know why it took getting Ankiel to finally sit him. There were viable options. I hope he sits him again tonight. He needs time to heal and feel better physically.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

you listed his BA as a starter (.310) as if it had something to do with this discussion.  I pointed out why it is that high.  And imo, BA against RHP is a solid stat... BA against RH starting pitchers doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I don't even know where you can go to get a stat like that.  Righties are righties whether they are starting the game or not.  Just because Diaz is facing a satrting pitcher doesn't mean he started the game and just because he's facing a relief pitcher doesn't mean he didn't.

I like Diaz and I want him to succeed in an everyday role.  Unfortunately, when given that chance, he really hasn't.  When we have a viable LH hitting alternative, I think it is smart to use it.  Melky hasn't been that good this year, BUT HE IS STILL HITTING .060 BETTER THAN DIAZ AGAINST RIGHTIES THIS YEAR.

As for Hinske/Glaus, I have wished for a long time that Glaus could get some time off.  I've even hoped we might see Freddie Freeman up for a little while, although I hear his plate discipline will be a big problem at the ML level.  But there are two schools of thought here:  one is to play your regulars even when certain bench guys get hot because bench guys will not be able to keep that pace up and it might have more of an impact for them to come into the game in a late-inning, game-changing situation.  If Diaz is in batting 7th the whole game, you can't just move him to pinch hit for the pitcher with RISP and 2 outs in the 8th inning.  The other school of thought is to play everybody who's hot at the moment.  IMO, that's the most certain way to cool them off as there could possibly be.  I'd rather have a really hot pinch hitter for 2 weeks than a really hot everyday player for 3 games.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> All I did was disagree with that assessment by making the point that we are never going to know if Diaz won't do better if he never gets to a chance to feel comfortable against righties because he won't play him against him.



Diaz has been an everyday pleyer before.  It didn't work out.

In 2008 before he got injured he started 33 games (of 43 he appeared in) and he was hitting .244 (.319 (23 for 72) against lefties and .159 (10 for 63) against righties.

He started 92 games in 2009, 47 of them against a righty.  He hit .241 6 HR, 26 RBI, and had 22 BB compared to 59 SO's.


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Diaz has been an everyday pleyer before. It didn't work out.


 
Yep, remember last year when he hit leadoff for an extended period? It wasn't real pretty.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> you listed his BA as a starter (.310) as if it had something to do with this discussion.



Yeah Doc, career BA has nothing to do w/ anything when deciding to put a player in a lineup over another.  I mean, shoot, it's easy to hit .300+ in the majors.  I don't even know why they keep up w/ a stat like batting average.  Very asinine to me.  

It's like you think Diaz has 0% chance of getting a hit off a RH.



Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I don't even know where you can go to get a stat like that.



You and Booby both.  You think I'm just making it up out thin, blue air?  I already told you, it's called baseballreference.com.  If you don't like to just play a player because and think stats are meaningful, it's a real helpful site.  If you just like to throw old mantras that people can't hit RH pitching or that OFs aren't "viable" (whatever the definition of that is), well it's not a very useful site.  

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=diazma02&year=Career&t=b

Go there and scroll down to where it says platoon splits (it's the second thing w/ a red heading). You see where it says VS. RHP as RHB (that means matty was batting Right-handed facing a right-handed pitcher).  You go over to where it says BA (that stands for batting average).  You go down to where these to cells would meet and low-and-good-god-behold it says .270.  No how in the world a man that CAN NOT hit RHP is batting .270 against RHP is beyond me.  




Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I like Diaz and I want him to succeed in an everyday role.  Unfortunately, when given that chance, he really hasn't.



Stats please?????



Doc_Holliday23 said:


> When we have a viable LH hitting alternative, I think it is smart to use it.  Melky hasn't been that good this year, BUT HE IS STILL HITTING .060 BETTER THAN DIAZ AGAINST RIGHTIES THIS YEAR.




I see your definition of viable now.  It's a lifetime .264 hitter.  I got it.  Viable=.264 BA.  That's easy.  Lot's of viable players out there.   Oh wait, Booby didn't have a viable alternative to Hinske for Glause til we got Ankiel .  

Well let's see.  Hmmm, Ankiel is only a lifetime .251 hitter against any pitcher. 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/ankieri01.shtml

Well dang, just when I thought I knew what viable meant.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Yeah Doc, career BA has nothing to do w/ anything when deciding to put a player in a lineup over another.  I mean, shoot, it's easy to hit .300+ in the majors.  I don't even know why they keep up w/ a stat like batting average.  Very asinine to me.
> 
> It's like you think Diaz has 0% chance of getting a hit off a RH.


His .310 lifetime BA as a starter is grossly over-inflated because he has spent almost his entire career STARTING AGAINST LEFTIES!!!!  His starting average is not a good stat to use when arguing he should be starting everyday, because if you look deeper you'll see that when he did start against righties, his average was anywhere from terrible to just poor.



huntindawg said:


> Stats please?????



check that post again.  you love baseball-reference.com (you didnt tell me about it I've been using the site for a long time) so much why dont you learn how to use it correctly?  do you even remember when diaz was played as the everyday starting left-fielder or are you new to the game?  2008 and 2009 was the great diaz-everyday experiment.  guess what?  it failed.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Diaz has been an everyday pleyer before.  It didn't work out.
> 
> In 2008 before he got injured he started 33 games (of 43 he appeared in) and he was hitting .244 (.319 (23 for 72) against lefties and .159 (10 for 63) against righties.
> 
> He started 92 games in 2009, 47 of them against a righty.  He hit .241 6 HR, 26 RBI, and had 22 BB compared to 59 SO's.



OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you didn't just pick and choose stats???

OMG!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Surely you didn't just pick and choose stats???
> 
> OMG!!!!!!!!!!


are you serious?  I CHOSE the stats from when he was the everyday starter.  That's what we're talking about here, right?  You want him to be the everyday leftfielder.  I'm showing you the stats when he was the everyday leftfielder.

You'd rather talk about his entire career as if 2004 in Kansas City had any bearing on how he is hitting right now.


----------



## huntindawg

Diaz was hurting from the beginning of 2008...it was obvious he wasn't himself at the plate.  

I like how you say you don't know where you would get a stat like that (vs. RH starting pitching) and then you use it to try to make his stats look worse than they are.

Yes, he hit .241 last year against RH starting pitching (shhh!! don't mention he hit .395 against LH starerts)  

Would you venture a guess at Melky's average against RHs this year???????

.240!!!!!!


Any other way you want to try to  make Booby look smart????


----------



## huntindawg

huntindawg said:


> let me try to make this a little more clear for you:
> 
> Diaz: Vs rh starters (which would mean to me he started or was in the game early on): *.261*
> 
> melky vs rh starters: *.264*






doc_holliday23 said:


> and huntingdawg, you can't just pick and choose stats like that.  Its not an accurate depiction.





doc_holliday23 said:


> in 2008 before he got injured he started 33 games (of 43 he appeared in) and he was hitting .244 (.319 (23 for 72) against lefties and .159 (10 for 63) against righties.
> 
> He started 92 games in 2009, 47 of them against a righty.  He hit .241 6 hr, 26 rbi, and had 22 bb compared to 59 so's.



hahahahaha!!!!!!

I use CAREER averages and it's picking and choosing..

You use the same stats from 2 years and it's not...WOW!!!

Are you sure you aren't thinking about running for office???


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

melky is hitting .260 against rhp this year.  diaz is hitting .203.

what more do I need to say?

as for baseball reference, I didn't know they had that stat.  after I posted that, its the first place I went and I found it.  congratulations.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> hahahahaha!!!!!!



small victories are for people who never have big victories.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> small victories are for people who never have big victories.



Won't be a victory til I see MC off the field and MD out there every night.  And proving that you're wrong and talk out both sides of your mouth won't do that.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Won't be a victory til I see MC off the field and MD out there every night.  And proving that you're wrong and talk out both sides of your mouth won't do that.



I'm not sure where I talked out of both sides of my mouth.  My stance is that Matt Diaz shouldn't be an everyday starter in LF and that will remain my stance until he puts up some kind of reasonable production against righties.

I already told you I did not know that baseball-reference had that split.  When I found out it did, I used it.  The stats you posted don't tell the whole story.


----------



## huntindawg

Once again, you called me out for picking and choosing stats because I posted CAREER average for both players against RH starting pitching.


Then you go to the same source and literally PICK out two years of the same stat and use it in your argument.

That, my friend, is talking out both sides of your mouth.


----------



## huntindawg

Going against Santana tonight...

Diaz bats .538 against him... No, that's not a misprint.

If he's not in the lineup, I'll know Cox doesn't give a crap about this team.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Going against Santana tonight...
> 
> Diaz bats .538 against him... No, that's not a misprint.
> 
> If he's not in the lineup, I'll know Cox doesn't give a crap about this team.



surprise surprise, santana is left handed.  of course he'll be in the lineup, just like he would be against any lefty.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Once again, you called me out for picking and choosing stats because I posted CAREER average for both players against RH starting pitching.
> 
> 
> Then you go to the same source and literally PICK out two years of the same stat and use it in your argument.
> 
> That, my friend, is talking out both sides of your mouth.



once again, the stats I chose are the ones that are actually relevant to this discussion: Diaz's numbers as an everyday player.

for someone like melky who has been an everyday starter pretty much his entire career, his numbers against only starting pitchers doesn't tell us anything.

baseball-reference.com should has a split for when they started games instead of the vague stats against a starting pitcher.  the two are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Nitram4891

Yeah Diaz better be in tonight.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> baseball-reference.com should has a split for when they started games instead of the vague stats against a starting pitcher.  the two are not mutually exclusive.



I agree they aren't....but if Diaz comes in in a PH role and gets a hit against a RH starter, you don't think he might have gotten another one against that starter during the game??


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> I agree they aren't....but if Diaz comes in in a PH role and gets a hit against a RH starter, you don't think he might have gotten another one against that starter during the game??



There's no way to know.  Baseball is a funny game.  In fact, it might be more likely that he wouldn't get another hit against him, considering that a great hitter still only gets a hit 30% of the time.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

I hate to jump in the middle of such an involved argument, but what does everyone think about the fact that the Braves lost two consecutive games against a top team due to defensive errors, and left a ton of runners on base in both games.

Do those facts show a lack of concentration?


----------



## huntindawg

Well, on the error side, you can call it what you will when a big league SS that's fielded literally tens of thousands of those routine grounders to his left since he was 10 years old bobbles one and costs us a run.  

On Heyward diving, it was definitely a lack of concentration.  You can say, well he's a rookie, but how many games you think he's played in since he was old enough to know better to dive for a ball w/ 2 outs and a runner on first?? Thousands?? That would probably be a conservative estimate. 


As far as the LOB stat, I'm not sure about concentration.  You can concentrate as hard as you want at the plate and it still won't make you a better hitter.


----------



## Nitram4891

I'm no baseball expert but heyward missed that ball by 2 inches max.  I can't blame him too much.  Gonzo at least made up for it by crushing that hanging change up.


----------



## huntindawg

But he DID miss it.  Baseball is a game of percentages.  Heyward knows that.  He knew that w/ a runner on first and 2 outs that he had to keep that ball out of the corner to give his pitcher a chance to get out of the inning w/out any damage.

Much like in soccer, if you can lay the ball off to a trailing teammate that will only have to beat the goalie instead of taking a marginal shot yourself, you have to lay it off.

In this case, Heyward went for the glory when he shouldn't have.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Well, on the error side, you can call it what you will when a big league SS that's fielded literally tens of thousands of those routine grounders to his left since he was 10 years old bobbles one and costs us a run.
> 
> On Heyward diving, it was definitely a lack of concentration.  You can say, well he's a rookie, but how many games you think he's played in since he was old enough to know better to dive for a ball w/ 2 outs and a runner on first?? Thousands?? That would probably be a conservative estimate.
> 
> 
> As far as the LOB stat, I'm not sure about concentration.  You can concentrate as hard as you want at the plate and it still won't make you a better hitter.



Right on. Gonzo plays a great ss... Just bad timing on one of his few errors.  Nothing to it, IMO.  Hitting is the same.  Concentrate all you want, doesn't mean you're gonna get a hit.

Situational baseball, though, is something that has to be known and paid attention to.  Heyward has to know not to dive for that ball.  Field it, get it in, hopld the guy to third and make them get another hit.  It's a rookie mistake and hey ward has played so well that we often forget he's 20 years old and is still a rookie.  It's still no excuse though.


----------



## Nitram4891

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Right on. Gonzo plays a great ss... Just bad timing on one of his few errors.  Nothing to it, IMO.  Hitting is the same.  Concentrate all you want, doesn't mean you're gonna get a hit.
> 
> Situational baseball, though, is something that has to be known and paid attention to.  Heyward has to know not to dive for that ball.  Field it, get it in, hopld the guy to third and make them get another hit.  It's a rookie mistake and hey ward has played so well that we often forget he's 20 years old and is still a rookie.  It's still no excuse though.



Nice to see yall agreeing on something...


----------



## huntindawg

very funny..


we both know baseball...we just disagree on who should be on the field..

ain't nothing wrong w/ a little stat flinging in a baseball argument


----------



## Nitram4891

huntindawg said:


> very funny..
> 
> 
> we both know baseball...we just disagree on who should be on the field..
> 
> ain't nothing wrong w/ a little stat flinging in a baseball argument



I like Diaz personally but this is purely subjective.  I won't bring out any more stats.  I just like the guy better than melky.  Ankiel hit a couple hard yesterday that could have been base hits.  He was hitting well recently in KC so hopefully he starts helping immediately.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> very funny..
> 
> 
> we both know baseball...we just disagree on who should be on the field..
> 
> ain't nothing wrong w/ a little stat flinging in a baseball argument



Exactly... Especially when one set of stats favors one side of the argument and another favors the other side.


----------



## huntindawg

I like Diaz's approach much more than Melky's....

He goes up there swinging...It has gotten him in trouble in the past but he seems to adjust better now when he's been starting games.  
He knows when he goes in to pinch hit that the pitcher just wants to throw him strikes and make him beat his best fastball.  Well, Diaz can do that.  When he's gotten to start this year and especially since he's come back from his injury, he hasn't swung at every first pitch.  

BUT he does swing hard when he decides it's time....On some of Melky's swings yesterday, if you had a $20 bill and told me to go stand in front of it, I would do it without hesitation.  He's a swatter and he's not even very good at that.  I just don't like him...at all...there's honestly no need for him to be on the team.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

I wasn't thinking so much of Heyward's missed ball -- some of that was coaching -- he should  have been playing a couple steps closer to the line maybe, especially with a fastballer pitching.

I was including Sat. game where Melky's miscue was the game changer.

Quoting from A Team of Their Own --"you got to catch the ball, you got to throw the ball...."


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> I like Diaz's approach much more than Melky's....
> 
> He goes up there swinging...It has gotten him in trouble in the past but he seems to adjust better now when he's been starting games.
> He knows when he goes in to pinch hit that the pitcher just wants to throw him strikes and make him beat his best fastball.  Well, Diaz can do that.  When he's gotten to start this year and especially since he's come back from his injury, he hasn't swung at every first pitch.
> 
> BUT he does swing hard when he decides it's time....On some of Melky's swings yesterday, if you had a $20 bill and told me to go stand in front of it, I would do it without hesitation.  He's a swatter and he's not even very good at that.  I just don't like him...at all...there's honestly no need for him to be on the team.



I'm just frustrated with melky because he actually was a serviceable player for the Yankees.  I mean, he started on Yankees WS teams.  That alone should mean he's ok, because if he wasn't they would replace him.  And now he's borderline terrible.  I don't like him in RBI spots, either.  I'd much rather have a guy like Diaz in the 7 hole: someone who may sacrifice a bit in OBP for some extra SLG... someone who can go up and hit a solo HR and not have to be pushed around by the #8 hitter and the pitcher.

But I'm also frustrated with Diaz because I just dont understand why it's so hard to hit aganist righties.  We all hit against righties 3:1 more than we ever hit against lefties and that ratio is still true in the ML's.  I know it might seem contrary to the kind of player he is, but it seems to me he shouyld change his approach to righties and be more conservative and not swing out of his shoes.  Take your big hacks against lefties where you know you can do damage, but be patient against righties and work for walks and singles.  That way he does work his way into the lineup everyday.  Even if he only hit .240 against righties, if he could get his OBP up against them to the .350 mark it would be huge.  This year his OBP against RHP is .250.  It was much better last year, but not sure how much of that is due to the platoon.  

What I mean by saying that, is I honestly feel that a player's confidence soars when he is put in situations to succeed and I don't think Diaz's numbers would stay as high if he played everyday and played most of his games against righties.  I think it would begin to affect his hitting against lefties at some point.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Twenty five ought six said:


> I wasn't thinking so much of Heyward's missed ball -- some of that was coaching -- he should  have been playing a couple steps closer to the line maybe, especially with a fastballer pitching.
> 
> I was including Sat. game where Melky's miscue was the game changer.
> 
> Quoting from A Team of Their Own --"you got to catch the ball, you got to throw the ball...."



Melky is trying his best to prove he doesnt deserve to play.


----------



## huntindawg

I think using Diaz's stats from this year are misleading.  It was obvious that his injury was nagging him early on in the season and that he kept trying to tough it out...probably cause he knows how Booby is once someone gets more playing time (i.e. starting Melky like he's earned the spot now).

I know you don't want to go by his career stats but even looking at what he did last year shows you that he is a better hitter against righties than what he's done so far this year.


----------



## gsubo

Melky doesn't hit for average..he has ZERO power..he's not fast..his defense isn't too good(case in point..the disappearing ball he threw away the other night in center field. What the the heck was that???) Start ankiel..sit Melky and dont even think about putting him in there..not even against lefties.  He's worthless to this team.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Great job once again by huddy. Almost start to feel bad for santana when he faces the braves._  Almost..._

Still pretty bad hitting with risp tonight but we got just enough.  Welcome to Atlanta Rick ankiel.


----------



## Blue Iron

I wish SOMEBODY would tell me why Matt Diaz isn't our every day cleanup hitter! He is SLAUGHTERING the ball!!!!





















































 Sorry, just had to do it.

Glad to see us win, Huddy was filthy yet again. Still WAY to many runners left on.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Good win for the Braves & Hudson. WTG Ankiel with 2 RBI's & 2 for4 batting tonight for a fine start with Atlanta.  Santana still got 11 strikeouts out of the Braves.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_08_02_nynmlb_atlmlb_1

Monday, August 2, 2010:

Braves 4, Mets 1


----------



## huntindawg

I'm really hoping Ankiel can keep hitting the ball hard.  I would love to see JHey out of that 2 hole and moved down to 6th or 7th to give him some more RBI chances where it seems to me he becomes a much better hitter.  He's still watching way too many good pitches and trusting his eye too much, possibly because he feels like he needs to get on base more than he needs to hit the ball hard in that 2 hole???  I definitely think he's not a natural 2 hole hitter at all, more like a 4-5-6 hitter.

What yall think?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I think he was born to hit 3rd.  IMO, that's where your guy with the highest OPS should be.  Somebody who can hit for power and average.  OBP goes down as you go 4-5-6-7.  Then I like a guy with a little better OBP in the 8 hole.  And just by the virtue of hitting in front of the pitcher, they're going to get pitched around a lot.  Then the pitcher can bunt em over for the top of the order.

Then there's a camp of people who think the best hitter on the team, period, should be in the 2 hole.  I don't agree on that, though.  Ruth, Mantle, Ted Williams... all hit 3rd.  And more recently, Griffey, Pujols, ARod, Manny, Chipper, etc... all 3rd.  I think Heyward's game fits there.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc, I said 4-5-6 because I think Heyward has so much potential to get bigger in the weight room.  I know everyone talk(ed) about how great his eye is and we see that sometimes but not enough for me.  The (ed) is in parentheses because we're not hearing that as much now that his walk to strikeout ratio is down around 0.65:1.

Edited to add:  If JHey adds some muscle and can keep this BB/K ratio while hitting 30+HRs then I agree, 3 is his spot.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

He's a rookie... I think his plate disipline will only get better.  And take out the time from when he injured his thumb (May 14) til he came back off the DL (July 11) his BB:K is about .76:1.  That's pretty respectable and is around what his minor league average was.  I think that will also go up as he becomes the most feared hitter in the lineup and teams would rather pitch to other players than him.

In July after coming off the DL, his line was .356/.457/.458.

Oh, and I also think he takes too many pitches with 2 strikes.  I see it with Chipper sometimes, too, when he has two strikes.  He takes pitches that are too close to take and gets rung up.  A lot of Heyward's K's have been looking lately.


----------



## drhunter1

I just hope Bobby leaves Diaz in long enough to proove us all wrong.


----------



## huntindawg

Are you kidding DR?  We got the RH knuckleballer Dickey tonight...Diaz couldn't hit him if'n he tried.  Shoot, he'd probably go up there swinging the wrong end of the stick when he saw that fool on the mound throwing with the wrong hand.

In all seriousness, I'll be surprised if he plays MD tonight.  Melky is 2 for 8 w/ a HR against RA so far this year and looking at his numbers against Wakefield (~.430 BA), I think he knows how to hit a knuckleballer.  This would actually be one time I would be ok w/ melky being in the lineup....but just ok...i ain't saying i want him out there.


----------



## drhunter1

huntindawg said:


> Are you kidding DR?  We got the RH knuckleballer Dickey tonight...Diaz couldn't hit him if'n he tried.  Shoot, he'd probably go up there swinging the wrong end of the stick when he saw that fool on the mound throwing with the wrong hand.
> 
> In all seriousness, I'll be surprised if he plays MD tonight.  Melky is 2 for 8 w/ a HR against RA so far this year and looking at his numbers against Wakefield (~.430 BA), I think he knows how to hit a knuckleballer.  This would actually be one time I would be ok w/ melky being in the lineup....but just ok...i ain't saying i want him out there.



He did hit that HR last time he faced him. It was a thing of beauty.  I'm OK with him playing tonight. If he did miraculously play Diaz, I'd be OK with that too.


----------



## DSGB

They'll need Diaz off the bench later in the game.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

and Diaz is out.

Braves lineup:
1. Infante 2B
2. Heyward RF
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann C
5. Hinske 1B
6.Gonzalez SS
7. Ankiel CF
8. Cabrera LF
9. Lowe RH


----------



## Nitram4891

Nice to see Glaus getting more rest.  He came in late in the game on Sunday, was it worth bringing him in?


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I think he was born to hit 3rd.  IMO, that's where your guy with the highest OPS should be.  Somebody who can hit for power and average.  OBP goes down as you go 4-5-6-7.  Then I like a guy with a little better OBP in the 8 hole.  And just by the virtue of hitting in front of the pitcher, they're going to get pitched around a lot.  Then the pitcher can bunt em over for the top of the order.
> 
> Then there's a camp of people who think the best hitter on the team, period, should be in the 2 hole.  I don't agree on that, though.  Ruth, Mantle, Ted Williams... all hit 3rd.  And more recently, Griffey, Pujols, ARod, Manny, Chipper, etc... all 3rd.  I think Heyward's game fits there.


Very few teams put their best hitter in the 2 hole.  Typically, the perfect 2 hole hitter takes pitches, can lay down a bunt, strikes out very little, and is really a slapper that can hit behind a runner at first.  The guy should give the leadoff hitter a chance to swipe second, and lay down the bunt if needed.

The best hitter always hits in the 3rd slot.....except when Wade Boggs was in Beantown and they hit him leadoff.

Heyward is a 3 or 5 hole guy all day long......in a perfect world.


----------



## whitetaco02

If Lowe pitches longer than 6 innings he is going to get rocked!


----------



## Resica

Phils and Halliday beat Florida 6-1.


----------



## LanierSpots

Still struggling...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Terrible, frustrating, crappy game.

Bad pitch by Wagner to francouer.  There's only one pitch that frenchy can even hit: a fastball out over the pate.  That's the one pitch you don't throw him...


----------



## Nitram4891

Are we ever going to score 5, 6, or 7 runs.  Seems like all we do lately is play 1 run games because we can't hit with RISP.


----------



## General Lee

Gonzalez just doesn't look like he wants to be in Atlanta...........


----------



## DSGB

0-8 with RISP. Not gonna win many games doing that.

Hinske was 0-3 with FIVE left on base.

Probably should have left Lowe in for one more inning, but Bobby was hoping Diaz could score Melky from 3rd.

A leadoff walk comes back to haunt Farnsworth.

I hate seeing Glaus come up with a runner on 1st.


----------



## biggdogg

from the looks of it, you might not see glaus much anymore, if at all.
he is sitting out at least the next two games and cox and wren are contemplating bringing freeman up and likely releasing glaus before he starts earning bonus money. 

i hate to see that, especially the way he carried the team in may. truth be told, the entire offense is struggling right now. i'd like to see how he responds to some rest.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

biggdogg said:


> from the looks of it, you might not see glaus much anymore, if at all.
> he is sitting out at least the next two games and cox and wren are contemplating bringing freeman up and likely releasing glaus before he starts earning bonus money.
> 
> i hate to see that, especially the way he carried the team in may. truth be told, the entire offense is struggling right now. i'd like to see how he responds to some rest.



Where did you hear all of this?

Nevermind found it on MLB.com


----------



## bfriendly

> Phils and Halliday beat Florida 6-1.



Yea, thanks...........we needed to hear that reminder.  Cant you see we are strugglin here

Dont think for a second that we dont ALL Know that and the records too!

Sure hope we dont have to start a new thread


----------



## Resica

bfriendly said:


> Yea, thanks...........we needed to hear that reminder.  Cant you see we are strugglin here
> 
> Dont think for a second that we dont ALL Know that and the records too!
> 
> Sure hope we dont have to start a new thread


Sorry, Thought you might like to see real time results.


----------



## General Lee

biggdogg said:


> from the looks of it, you might not see glaus much anymore, if at all.
> he is sitting out at least the next two games and cox and wren are contemplating bringing freeman up and likely releasing glaus before he starts earning bonus money.
> 
> i hate to see that, especially the way he carried the team in may. truth be told, the entire offense is struggling right now. i'd like to see how he responds to some rest.


  Should have left the outfield alone and made a strong play for Dunn............


----------



## bfriendly

General Lee said:


> Should have left the outfield alone and made a strong play for Dunn............



We will see how the play turns out.........so far, I have been excited to see Ankiel out there......

I think MANY on the lineup have been strugglin too.

Seein Chipper and Big Mac go back to back(Has been a while) last night was AWESOME!!


----------



## DSGB

bfriendly said:


> We will see how the play turns out.........so far, I have been excited to see Ankiel out there......
> 
> I think MANY on the lineup have been strugglin too.
> 
> Seein Chipper and Big Mac go back to back(Has been a while) last night was AWESOME!!



They were both hitting the ball well last night. Throw in four errors for the Metropolitans and they put up the most runs against them all year.

I'm taking my daughter to the game tonight. I had no clue who was pitching when I bought the tickets, but we get to see a couple good ones!


----------



## huntindawg

I would have to think about going dunn, saito, venters as bad as Wagner's been lately.


----------



## Nitram4891

6 more outs.... Go braves!


----------



## schleylures

Last I saw phillies were lossing to the marlins. Go Fish


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Wagner wasn't fooling anybody but that's still a really big win.  Doesn't get much tougher than trying to beat lincecum.


----------



## Nitram4891

schleylures said:


> Last I saw phillies were lossing to the marlins. Go Fish



Phils are coming back...  Just tied it in the 9th.


----------



## Resica

Nitram4891 said:


> Phils are coming back...  Just tied it in the 9th.


----------



## Nitram4891

Resica said:


>



I knew you were not far... Hopefully the fish win it in the bottom of the ninth.    Man on first with nobody out!


----------



## Resica

Nitram4891 said:


> I knew you were not far... Hopefully the fish win it in the bottom of the ninth.    Man on first with nobody out!


Extra innings!! Let's go Phils!!!!


----------



## Resica

Ruiz just hit one out, 5-4 Phils.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Apparently the fish only have magical powers over the braves...


----------



## Resica




----------



## Sweetwater

Resica said:


>



I hope it comes down to that last series in Atlanta.


----------



## huntindawg

The phillies win on a terrible call....definitely should be three games.

Bobby's at least got to think about sending someone else out there in the ninth.  Those were 4 of the hardest hit balls off Wagner all year.


----------



## drhunter1

Sweetwater said:


> I hope it comes down to that last series in Atlanta.



It looks like the Umpires are trying to make it a stinking Phills 3 game lead when they get here.


----------



## DSGB

Great game! Runs were scarce, as expected. Not many hits for the Braves, but they made the ones they got count. The two wall scrapers were enough for JJ and the 'pen. Great job by Venters getting them 1-2-3 in the 7th. 

This is what I like to see:
Pitches-strikes: Venters 8-8

Some pics from the game:

View from our seats






JJ warming up





"The Freak" warming up





Heyward looks at ball four





Chipper down on strikes in the 1st





Heyward hits a ground rule double





JJ settles in





Just before impact





The birthday boy unties it





Lincecum leaves the game





Chipper giving some pointers





Bring on Wagner


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

nice shots as always.  you always manage to get yourself into some pretty good seats...


----------



## DSGB

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> nice shots as always.  you always manage to get yourself into some pretty good seats...



That's actually the first time I've sat in the dugout level. I told my daughter to enjoy it, 'cause we probably won't have seats that good anytime soon. I wanted to go to Fridays (tonight) game, so I wouldn't have to worry about getting up for work the next day, but all the good seats were sold out due to Glavine's retirement ceremony. I usually go for the two-for-one outfield seats, but prefer field level. It's hard to get any of my buddies to pony up for decent seats. Since it was just me and her, I figured "why not?" 
The best seats I ever had were at Fulton County Stadium. My uncle did some jewelry work for Pat Corrales' wife, so he gave him some tickets in the 8th row right behind home plate. We were sitting amongst some of the players' (Belliard and Javy) wives and kids.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

good seats are something to be splurged for every now and then.  I'll be there tonight, most likely in the 755 club.  a few shots from the good seats...


----------



## DSGB

Yeah, those are nice. Is that last one Gwinnett?


----------



## DSGB

Oh yeah. When Lincecum came up to bat for the first time last night, the organist played "Puff the Magic Dragon."


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

last one is spring training down at disney wwos.


----------



## huntindawg

Is this glaus's last shot?


----------



## huntindawg

And Wagner blows another one. Keep trotting him out there booby.


----------



## drhunter1

Why did Bobby leave Moyland out there that long?  I swear he makes me crazy!


----------



## LanierSpots

One game up.   We will be trailing soon..


----------



## SFStephens

LanierSpots said:


> One game up.   We will be trailing soon..



Probably before the week's over. Bobby must've fallen asleep, much like the Brave's bats, while Moyland was pitching. I could go on and on about last nights game, but why bother. It's just more of the same.


----------



## mday97

I don't chime in much on the forms. I know I am going to get bashed for this but Chipper Jones is killing us. No team in MLB can win with the #3 hitter hitting .257 with 10 HRs 45 Runs and 46 RBI's. Not to mention his $14,000,000.00 price tag. I love the guy but its time for him to move on. With his payroll the Braves are forced to pickup old out of there prime free agents on the cheap, that never pan out ie; Troy Glaus. think about this, Brooks Conrad has 90 at bats and has produced 5 HRs and 20 RBIs he has 1/3 of the at bats Chipper has, multiply  by 3 and he has better numbers than Chipper, plus he only makes 400K. Can you say hello Adam Dunn. Just my 2 cent.


----------



## Nitram4891

Took 3 out of 4 from the Giants and should have taken all 4.  Great pitching over the weekend except for that one from Wagner on Friday.  Go braves!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

you honestly think its as easy as just multiplying by 3 and that's what his numbers would be?

chipper really struggled early in the year but I really think he's poised to drive in a lot of runs down the stretch.

just since june 17, when all of the retirement talk was put to rest, he's hit .294, 6 HR, 23 RBI, 8 2B and he's got 3 HR's in the last 7 games.  Very encouraging.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Nitram4891 said:


> Took 3 out of 4 from the Giants and should have taken all 4.  Great pitching over the weekend except for that one from Wagner on Friday.  Go braves!



you mean the one with the 2 errors?

awesome job to take 3 of 4 over a team with great pitching like the Giants who are also in a pennant race.  That's playoff kind of baseball and the Braves came out on top 3 of 4.  Really great series, imo.  If Wagner can come out firing like he did Saturday night, we'll win the World Series.  That was awesome.


----------



## drhunter1

I got to give Bobby Credit this time. He yanked Moylen when he saw he was struggling a little. 

Chipper is coming around. The past is the past. 

Ankiel is turning out to be a much better aquisition than I first thought. He's solid.

Heck even Melky got a clutch hit.


----------



## bfriendly

huntindawg said:


> And Wagner blows another one. Keep trotting him out there booby.



Who exactly Blew that game?  Was it Wagner?  I think not.  He may get the blown save by stats, but not too many pitchers are going to throw a shutout inning when 2 errors are made.

Yes Bobby, Keep sending him out there. 

NICE JOB by Saito to get his first save and a series win for the Braves!!

MAN, some of these other comments sound like you guys are just giving up



> One game up. We will be trailing soon..



Not so fast there Buddy!
2 Games up!!

You can bet this is going to come down to the last weekend!


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> you honestly think its as easy as just multiplying by 3 and that's what his numbers would be?
> 
> chipper really struggled early in the year but I really think he's poised to drive in a lot of runs down the stretch.
> 
> just since june 17, when all of the retirement talk was put to rest, he's hit .294, 6 HR, 23 RBI, 8 2B and he's got 3 HR's in the last 7 games.  Very encouraging.



And you did not even factor in veteran leadership.


----------



## biggdogg

i was at the game friday night that wagner "blew". from where i was sitting i would say the blown save should go to chipper and gonzalez. chippers error was a real doozie too, must've had his eyes closed i guess.


----------



## Nitram4891

biggdogg said:


> i was at the game friday night that wagner "blew". from where i was sitting i would say the blown save should go to chipper and gonzalez. chippers error was a real doozie too, must've had his eyes closed i guess.



Ok...so maybe he didnt blow it. but He did put on the leadoff batter which is problematic in the 9th inning when you are up by 1.


----------



## huntindawg

bfriendly said:


> Who exactly Blew that game?  Was it Wagner?  I think not.  He may get the blown save by stats, but not too many pitchers are going to throw a shutout inning when 2 errors are made.
> 
> Yes Bobby, Keep sending him out there.
> 
> NICE JOB by Saito to get his first save and a series win for the Braves!!



I gave up on Bobby a long time ago....

No, Wagner didn't blow it by himself...He did walk the leadoff batter, which is the biggest no-no for a closer w/ a one run lead, so it wasn't like he didn't have any fault.  

If you aren't and haven't been getting the job done like Wagner as of late, then I think you have to try someone else (mainly Venters or Saito, as seen yesterday, can close games) and not continue running Wagner out there to let him figure it out right now.  It's too crucial of a time in the season.  

With that said, I don't think Wagner's pitching badly...I haven't seen a night where he's throwing less than 95 and his slider hasn't really been way off.  So, with that said, who the heck is giving him scouting reports on the hitters he's facing?  You can't go out and expect to throw a 95 MPH fastball w/ no movement by a major league hitter every time.

It actually looked like for the first time in a while on Saturday that he kinda knew what would get each batter out that he faced.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Saturday wagner was unhittable.  best I think I've ever seen him and I watched him plenty when he was in his "prime" in New York.

biggdogg, I actually thought Chipper's error wasn't as bad as Gonzalez's.  Gonzo's E was on a routine ground ball that possibly could have been a double play.  at least chipper's grounder was a tough play, meaning he had to backhand it to have any chance of throwing out a runner at first or home.  one of those all or nothing plays and unfortunately, he came up with nothing.

moylan was the worst of that night with the two walks to lead off the 11th.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Saturday wagner was unhittable.  best I think I've ever seen him and I watched him plenty when he was in his "prime" in New York.
> 
> biggdogg, I actually thought Chipper's error wasn't as bad as Gonzalez's.  Gonzo's E was on a routine ground ball that possibly could have been a double play.  at least chipper's grounder was a tough play, meaning he had to backhand it to have any chance of throwing out a runner at first or home.  one of those all or nothing plays and unfortunately, he came up with nothing.
> 
> moylan was the worst of that night with the two walks to lead off the 11th.



Yep, Bobby's achilles heal through the years. Leaving in pitchers too long. Moylen has historically had trouble with lefthanders.  

Is it OK if I say I was yelling at the T.V when Bobby left him in there.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I yell at the TV nightly.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I'm yelling at Alex Gonzalez tonight.  Another freaking error in a big spot that allowed a run.

Minor looks great tonight.  Really keeping his composure in the face of some adversity.  Astros have scored on bloops and errors tonight and he keeps dealing.  Great fastball up around 93, big nice curveball that he likes to throw to lefties, and a very nice change.  Struck out 5 so far.


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I'm yelling at Alex Gonzalez tonight. Another freaking error in a big spot that allowed a run.
> 
> Minor looks great tonight. Really keeping his composure in the face of some adversity. Astros have scored on bloops and errors tonight and he keeps dealing. Great fastball up around 93, big nice curveball that he likes to throw to lefties, and a very nice change. Struck out 5 so far.


 
Yeah he's looked sharp. Dang Braves just won't back him up.

How 'bout Chipper swinging the lumber, he took the best swings I've seen him take all year tonight.

Come on Bravo's! Need to hold em' here and score a couple.


----------



## huntindawg

I don't understand boobys love for farnsworth either. He's never been that great of a reliever. I was happy to see him go in 05 but we got him back now so booby has to play him I guess.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Probably still an upgrade over Jesse Chavez, but he's definitely not a great pitcher.

Oh well, so much for that chance at a free 1/2 game.

They didn't hit many hard but they sure found a lot of green.  And then the errors just killed us.  15 errors in the last 10 games for the Braves.  That is not first place team material.


----------



## huntindawg

Oh, I know he's an upgrade over Chavez...but he's still at best our number 5 option out of the pen right now.  

Venters, Saito, Dunn, Martinez (who got people out last night and looked good earlier in the year before he went on the DL), Moylan/Farnsworth...When I see an inning start w/ someone other than those first 3 (and hopefully Martinez will stay healthy), then I never have a good feeling.


----------



## DSGB

What a meltdown by the defense after getting blooped to death. They need to tighten up if they want to win the division. 
I was impressed with Minor's performance. He had to be a little frustrated, but he just kept working.


----------



## bnew17

do any of yal go watch Gwinnett games?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

bnew17 said:


> do any of yal go watch Gwinnett games?



never been but heard its a lot of fun.  its just on the wrong side of town for me and traffic over in gwinnett county is as bad or worse in the afternoons than it is downtown.


----------



## bnew17

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> never been but heard its a lot of fun.  its just on the wrong side of town for me and traffic over in gwinnett county is as bad or worse in the afternoons than it is downtown.



I havent made it to a game either...but would like to...a good friend of mine and college teammate is a reliever for them...Cory Gearrin...he has struggled some this year but he was one of their top prospects last year.


----------



## huntindawg

I went last year to watch Hanson before he got called up.  It's a nice park but they don't draw as many people as you would think.  We walked up and got pretty good tickets.  If you go on a weeknight, you won't have any problem getting in and moving down to some good seats. 

And the beers are cheaper than at Turner.


----------



## Jranger

Rome is a pretty good game to see as well. $6 will get you dug out seat front row! Kids play hard down there too. We took a few kids up there and we all had a blast. I would love to make it over to Gwinnett, but like Doc said, it's tough from this side of town.


----------



## Nitram4891

Chipper just looked liked he messed up his left knee pretty bad.  Hopefully it's not serious.


----------



## Blue Iron

This sloppy play has about got the best of me. Gonzo had Bourn dead to rights at the plate and Mac can't make the catch.


----------



## Nitram4891

Feel bad for Jurjens.  Pitches 7 shutout innings and we can't get him more then one run and then can't make the play at home.  August has been very frustrating.


----------



## Nitram4891

Blue Iron said:


> This sloppy play has about got the best of me. Gonzo had Bourn dead to rights at the plate and Mac can't make the catch.



Wow...that last play was horrible.  I'm done for tonight.  I thought this guy was a great defensive shortstop.


----------



## Resica

Phils are down 15-7 in the 9th.


----------



## whitetaco02

Braves look like the bad news bears out there this evening!


----------



## gsubo

Anybody else notice that Mccann NEVER catches the throw on bang bang plays at the plate.  It bites us once again on a good throw to the plate.  

And how many errors has Gonzalez made since he became a Brave. Seems like he's more worried about making the play look flashy than makin the throw.


----------



## gsubo

Brooks Conrad for president! He is the man! Bails the bad News Braves out once again!


----------



## huntindawg

Chippers gone???? I barely noticed...  haha 

Let's see if bobby leaves venters in.


----------



## whitetaco02

Brooks Conrad is the man!


----------



## xs5875

Did you see that?!?! Brooks Conrad is on point!


----------



## Nitram4891

Wow. Conrad saves the day.


----------



## xs5875

Man..those are the games I like to see.


----------



## WilcoSportsman

That was on time.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Nitram4891 said:


> Wow. Conrad saves the day.



Thought you were done for the night...  Glad I stuck around, but we shouldn't need 9th inning home runs to beat the 'Stros.

Picked up a game over the Phils tonight. 2 1/2 now.  I've been very frustrated lately but I keep telling myself if someone had told me in march that on 8/10 we'd have a 2 1/2 game lead I sure wouldn't have turned it down.


----------



## huntindawg

And that's including that awful losing streak....just think what it would be if we could have somehow went 3-7 during that stretch instead.


----------



## drhunter1

The Rawdawg does it again!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bnew17

That was a BOMB by conrad. Good win for the Bravos. The kind that can start a hot streak.


----------



## DSGB

Roller coaster game in the late innings. Some great defensive plays, including the one that Chipper got hurt on, but then another defensive meltdown. 
When Bourne was on third I was saying, "Look the ball into your glove and make a good throw to the plate." Gonzalez did a good job, but then McCann failed to make the catch. He looked to have plenty of time, but rushed the tag and came up empty. 
Then the play at second.  I had just about given up on them when Brooks Bambino bailed 'em out with a bomb! The article on the Braves' site said you can "put it in the Brooks." 
Another great performance by JJ. It's too bad he couldn't get the win, but at least he wasn't saddled with the loss. We need a strong outing by Hanson this afternoon, along with fundamentally sound defense.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

DSGB said:


> Roller coaster game in the late innings. Some great defensive plays, including the one that Chipper got hurt on, but then another defensive meltdown.
> When Bourne was on third I was saying, "Look the ball into your glove and make a good throw to the plate." Gonzalez did a good job, but then McCann failed to make the catch. He looked to have plenty of time, but rushed the tag and came up empty.
> Then the play at second.  I had just about given up on them when Brooks Bambino bailed 'em out with a bomb! The article on the Braves' site said you can "put it in the Brooks."
> Another great performance by JJ. It's too bad he couldn't get the win, but at least he wasn't saddled with the loss. We need a strong outing by Hanson this afternoon, along with fundamentally sound defense.



Yeah, what's with all of the errors all of a sudden?

3 errors in two consecutive games. 

Going to be hard to stay on top at that rate.  IMO errors will do more to bite you in the butt than walks or anything else.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

nice diving catch by ankiel early in the game.  its a wonder he didnt hurt himself with the way he hit the turf and just stopped.


----------



## DSGB

Twenty five ought six said:


> Yeah, what's with all of the errors all of a sudden?
> 
> 3 errors in two consecutive games.
> 
> Going to be hard to stay on top at that rate.  IMO errors will do more to bite you in the butt than walks or anything else.



17 errors in the last 11 games ain't gonna cut it. Don't know what's up with Gonzalez, but he's made seven since coming to Atlanta. I thought he should have had another with that feed to Omar, but for some reason they called it an E4. Chipper has made a couple. You could tell he was mad at himself with that throw to second. Just couldn't get it out of his glove. He made up for it with that leaping throw to first. Best play he's made all year, IMO. McCann needs to work on his throws for about an hour before each game. They're constantly sailing high and to the right.



Doc_Holliday23 said:


> nice diving catch by ankiel early in the game.  its a wonder he didnt hurt himself with the way he hit the turf and just stopped.



I thought he rolled over his arm or wrist at first. Sure did take a nice divot out of the grass.


----------



## DSGB

Hanson has got to work on his slide step. 

Bourne gets on with the first hit of the day for the 'Stros, and promptly steals second. 

As I was typing, somehow he got picked off 2nd, but made it to 3rd on a "catch error by Hanson."  I'm guessing he got in a run down and Hanson dropped the throw.


----------



## DSGB

And he scores on a single by Pence to tie it at 1.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

yeah but then hanson helped himself with an rbi single.


----------



## DSGB

Not a good start to the 9th for Wagner. On the corners with no outs.


----------



## Blue Iron

Dang Waggsy?!?! Whats up with him? 2-2 with 2 out.


----------



## DSGB

Free baseball..........


----------



## DSGB

Omar comes through, as does Gonz.

4-2 top 10


----------



## DSGB

Grand slam B-Mac!!!!


----------



## Resica




----------



## Doc_Holliday23

well, that's one way to win a ballgame, I guess.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

guess I shouldnt say "win" just yet.  E5 by Brooksie.


----------



## HighCotton

DSGB said:


> Grand slam B-Mac!!!!



Kinda helps make up for his awful defense lately.  BMac has got to be one of the worst defensive catchers I have ever seen.


----------



## EJC

What is up with Wagner? Are they using him to much? I can't complain much though, it has been a long time since i've been  this excited about Braves baseball.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

Hanson got charged with an error I didn't understand.

Runner on second, Hanson picks him off, runner gets in run down.  Hanson covers third.  Hanson muffs throw from Gonzalez, and runner returns to second safely --- runner doesn't advance.  

Bottom line is that it was just another unproductive pick-off play.  It was a mistake, but I just don't see that as being a chargeable error.

I mean if the catcher misses a pitch, and the runner doesn't advance, he doesn't get charged  with a passed ball.


----------



## DSGB

HighCotton said:


> Kinda helps make up for his awful defense lately.  BMac has got to be one of the worst defensive catchers I have ever seen.



Not the worst, but his throws have been pretty bad. All high and to the right. Maybe it's the fact that he is given little chance to throw the runners out, since they are getting good jumps off the pitchers, especially Hanson. Like I said in a previous post, he needs to work on his throws for about an hour before each game.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

forget his throws, just working on catching a ball on a play at the plate.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Twenty five ought six said:


> Hanson got charged with an error I didn't understand.
> 
> Runner on second, Hanson picks him off, runner gets in run down.  Hanson covers third.  Hanson muffs throw from Gonzalez, and runner returns to second safely --- runner doesn't advance.
> 
> Bottom line is that it was just another unproductive pick-off play.  It was a mistake, but I just don't see that as being a chargeable error.
> 
> I mean if the catcher misses a pitch, and the runner doesn't advance, he doesn't get charged  with a passed ball.



Rule 10.0.7

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp



> (h) The official scorer shall charge a runner as "caught stealing" if such runner is put out, or would have been put out by errorless play, when such runner
> (1) tries to steal;
> (2) is picked off a base and tries to advance (any move toward the next base shall be considered an attempt to advance);



Once he is in a run-down, by rule, there is an assumption that the result of the play is that they should be able to tag him out.  If that doesn't happen due to the fadct that somebody muffs a catch or throws it away, then there is an error charged.


----------



## bnew17

good point Doc...i agree...a run down is a FREE OUT. If you cant successfully get an out in a run down because  you muffed a throw you should be charged with an error.


----------



## HighCotton

Twenty five ought six said:


> Hanson got charged with an error I didn't understand.
> 
> Runner on second, Hanson picks him off, runner gets in run down.  Hanson covers third.  Hanson muffs throw from Gonzalez, and runner returns to second safely --- runner doesn't advance.
> 
> Bottom line is that it was just another unproductive pick-off play.  It was a mistake, but I just don't see that as being a chargeable error.
> 
> I mean if the catcher misses a pitch, and the runner doesn't advance, he doesn't get charged  with a passed ball.



That play resulted in an out not being made that could/should have been made.  That's one definition of what an error is.  Another type of error is when a runner advances that shouldn't have advanced.

On the other point you raise, by definition the runner has to advance for it to be a passed ball.


----------



## bfriendly

We have surely looked sloppy lately, but have still picked up some key wins.  That is the bottom line right now, keep getting the wins, no matter how ugly they may be



> Anybody else notice that Mccann NEVER catches the throw on bang bang plays at the plate. It bites us once again on a good throw to the plate.
> 
> And how many errors has Gonzalez made since he became a Brave. Seems like he's more worried about making the play look flashy than makin the throw.



Totally disagree!
Actually, I noticed that we see him play more than ANY other catcher.  I think if we watched other catchers, like the stro's catcher(Carlos Sanchez?) half as much, we would have a better idea of just how good Big Mac really is behind the plate.  His receiving of the ball and calling the games is as good as ANY other catcher in MLB. I also see some Bullets from BMac that are right on the money throws that NEVER had a chance,  cause the baserunner was half way to second(Or Third) before the pitcher ever let go of the ball.

I'll be the first to say how cruddy he looked dropping that ball at home........cannot let that happen. 

Still, he is an All-Star-----MVP TOO!!  That is NO ACCIDENT!!!


----------



## reylamb

bfriendly said:


> We have surely looked sloppy lately, but have still picked up some key wins.  That is the bottom line right now, keep getting the wins, no matter how ugly they may be
> 
> 
> 
> Totally disagree!
> Actually, I noticed that we see him play more than ANY other catcher.  I think if we watched other catchers, like the stro's catcher(Carlos Sanchez?) half as much, we would have a better idea of just how good Big Mac really is behind the plate.  His receiving of the ball and calling the games is as good as ANY other catcher in MLB. I also see some Bullets from BMac that are right on the money throws that NEVER had a chance,  cause the baserunner was half way to second(Or Third) before the pitcher ever let go of the ball.
> 
> I'll be the first to say how cruddy he looked dropping that ball at home........cannot let that happen.
> 
> Still, he is an All-Star-----MVP TOO!!  That is NO ACCIDENT!!!



McCann is an average at best catcher defensively.  Sorry, he just is.  All Star MVP was for his bat, not his glove.  Kinda reminds me of Mike Piazza to be honest.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

bfriendly said:


> Still, he is an All-Star-----MVP TOO!!  That is NO ACCIDENT!!!



he is an all-star because he is the best hitting catcher in the majors not named mauer.  doesnt make him a good defnsive catcher.

he's not as piazza, but he doesnt hit like piazza, either...


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> he is an all-star because he is the best hitting catcher in the majors not named mauer.  doesnt make him a good defnsive catcher.
> 
> he's not as piazza, but he doesnt hit like piazza, either...



Victor Martinez may argue the best hitting part, but definitely top 3 hitting catchers in the league.


----------



## huntindawg

Wags is off to a great start again tonight.


----------



## huntindawg

Looked like he knew what he was doing with those next two batters...especially eithier


----------



## Blue Iron

Great game Huddy!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Man huddy is all but automatic.

Podsednik got a hit... So what?  Wagner nailed it down after that and fooled him on the basepaths.  It's always scary as a runner going on first movement with a lefty on the mound.


----------



## huntindawg

Doc, it wasn't just that Pods got a hit...he got a hit on a pitch that should have never been made.

Wags calls off BMac more than any other pitcher..and he was doing it last night after he had called a near perfect game for Huddy.


----------



## yellowduckdog

War Eagle , Huddy you da man


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Good job Huddy on defense last nite.

Way-To-Go Brooks Conrad being a hero again to win the game with a solo HR & only score in the game.  

Sorry Resica since your such a class act with good sportsmanship, but thank you Mets for beating the Phillies to help get 'em off the Braves heels with Atlanta back to a 1st place 3 game lead.


----------



## Resica

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Good job Huddy on defense last nite.
> 
> Way-To-Go Brooks Conrad being a hero again to win the game with a solo HR & only score in the game.
> 
> Sorry Resica since your such a class act with good sportsmanship, but thank you Mets for beating the Phillies to help get 'em off the Braves heels with Atlanta back to a 1st place 3 game lead.



Thanks. It's fine with me if you're happy the Mets won, you should be. That knuckleballer Dickey one hit the Phils and it was Cole Hamels who had the hit.  Hopefully the Phils can win one tonight!!!  Good luck to the Braves!!!!


----------



## Resica

Phils win 4-0 behind Halliday.


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Phils win 4-0 behind Halliday.


 
Halladay is a beast. Braves need to score


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Resica said:


> Phils win 4-0 behind Halliday.



Congrats to the Phils who took revenge from yesterday & whipped up on the Mets with a great shutout ,and with the Braves loss tonight cut Atlanta's 1st place lead down to 2 games.  Somehow it always seems so good though when any NY team loses.


----------



## bfriendly

Resica said:


> Thanks. It's fine with me if you're happy the Mets won, you should be. That knuckleballer Dickey one hit the Phils and it was Cole Hamels who had the hit.  Hopefully the Phils can win one tonight!!!  Good luck to the Braves!!!!



That is a game I would have loved to see  While I prefer a high scoring game over any pitching duel, I do love to see a great pitched game too, Hudson's game was one of those, but Dickey must have really put on a show.

I think one of the reasons Dickey is such a great Knuckle baller is that he will mix in some fast balls and a curve ball some times too.......If his Knuckle ball dances like it should, batters have little choice but to smile as they head back to the Dugout.............or start smashin stuff

Bummer of a loss for the Braves..........hope they can stay up and rebound..........Ya never give up, no matter what, and I dont think the Braves will!!
GO BRAVES!!


----------



## Blue Iron

How 'bout THAT explosion?! Gonzo and Glaus with 4 rbi's each and JJ looked razor sharp!

Need to take #3 tomorrow and (gag) pull for the Metropolitans tonight.


----------



## Nitram4891

Some serious 9th inning magic (thanks to some plate discipline) by the Braves tonight!  Sorry Resica...


----------



## harley-rider77

Yay - Braves won again!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Awesome!

Balls of steel to lay off some of those really close pitches by Conrad, Ross, and ball 3 to Melky.

Love it.


----------



## Blue Iron

Melky is starting to show some signs of life!

WTG Braves!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Scary to say but that hit was almost identical to one by another guy named cabrera in October 1992.


----------



## Resica

Nitram4891 said:


> Some serious 9th inning magic (thanks to some plate discipline) by the Braves tonight!  Sorry Resica...



Doggone it. When are we gonna catch the Braves. Utley may be back tomorrow and Howard shouldn't be to far behind.


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Doggone it. When are we gonna catch the Braves. Utley may be back tomorrow and Howard shouldn't be to far behind.


 
Prado will be back tomorrow too


----------



## Resica

Blue Iron said:


> Prado will be back tomorrow too



He's no Utley!!!


----------



## huntindawg

Resica said:


> He's no Utley!!!



You're right...Prado is hitting almost 40 points higher w/ more RBIs, doubles, and HRs and fewer errors...

Thanks for the reminder though.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Just nice to see the Dodgers donate a game to our cause after we'd done our best to give them every run they scored in the whole series.


----------



## DSGB

Every time I get down on this team, they give me new hope. I was cussing them in the eighth and jumping up and down an inning later. 

The Melk Man delivered! A strong throw to home to limit the self-inflicted damage in the eighth, then wins it with a hit the other way.

Tommy has pitched great his last four or five starts, but isn't getting any run support. Throw in the defense giving away runs and you know he had to be frustrated. 

Conrad went from hero to goat, then everything is forgotten.

McCann is clutch when facing tough lefties with the game on the line. It's funny hearing them talk about how tough a pitcher is on lefties and then Mac defies the odds. He also made a great throw to second to get Kemp out.

Can't forget Infante setting the table in the 6th for Heyward to tie it with a sac fly that I thought was gone off the bat.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

on a night with less moisture in the air, I do believe heyward's drive in the 6th is gone.


----------



## Nitram4891

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> on a night with less moisture in the air, I do believe heyward's drive in the 6th is gone.



I would recheck your science on that one Doc and come back with a different conclusion.  

Last I heard more H2O vapor in air means less O2 and N2 which are both heavier then water vapor thus making the air less dense.  Now if my moisture you mean rain then you are correct, that does adversely affect ball flight but the higher the humidity, the longer the ball will carry.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Nitram4891 said:


> I would recheck your science on that one Doc and come back with a different conclusion.
> 
> Last I heard more H2O vapor in air means less O2 and N2 which are both heavier then water vapor thus making the air less dense.  Now if my moisture you mean rain then you are correct, that does adversely affect ball flight but the higher the humidity, the longer the ball will carry.



air density due to humidity is an extremely small factor, almost neglible.  rain, on the other hand will definitely slow a ball down.  

But its not the air's density you have to worry about, its the ball's.  The ball in that moist, even wet as for last night, environment gets really soggy really quickly.


----------



## huntindawg

Uh-oh, it's a nerd fest

///(pushes glasses on nose and ponders which nerd is more correct)/


----------



## Nitram4891

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> air density due to humidity is an extremely small factor, almost neglible.  rain, on the other hand will definitely slow a ball down.
> 
> But its not the air's density you have to worry about, its the ball's.  The ball in that moist, even wet as for last night, environment gets really soggy really quickly.



Yeah if the ball gets wet it's therefore heavier and for the same swing won't go as far.  But don't they change ball almost every pitch when it starts raining?


----------



## huntindawg

Article in support of nerd 1...
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/285/

Article in support of nerd 2...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025777/index.htm


----------



## huntindawg

FWIW, it's obvious a wetter, heavier ball won't travel as far....

As far as the humidity thing goes, if there are whole institutes trying to figure it out, I'll just leave it to them.


----------



## drhunter1

All I gotta say is GO BRAVES. Beat those stinking Nats!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

huntindawg said:


> Uh-oh, it's a nerd fest
> 
> ///(pushes glasses on nose and ponders which nerd is more correct)/



the fact that you used "//" to note you were making a comment means you're at least a bit of a nerd, yourself...


----------



## Resica

huntindawg said:


> You're right...Prado is hitting almost 40 points higher w/ more RBIs, doubles, and HRs and fewer errors...
> 
> Thanks for the reminder though.


Don't mention it, my pleasure.  Go Phils!!!!


----------



## Blue Iron

GO BRAVES!

Glad to have Prado back!


----------



## Resica

Glad to have Utley back!! Go Phils. Phils win 9-3, I see Braves are winning too!!!, same ole same ole.!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Wise man once said "when you're in first place, the only scoreboard you gotta watch is your own."

Keep it up braves.  Great to have prado back and minor looked great again.  If the braves were sending KK down just get him some stamina and then they're planning on bringing him back up to replace minor, they're crazy.


----------



## Resica

How in the world are the Phils gonna run away with this when they can't even get to first place?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Ask bnew... He was the one that was so sure the Braves had no shot at the division.


----------



## paddlin samurai

knock on wood....this team is special- cant wait for Freddie to join the team in september.


----------



## bfriendly

paddlin samurai said:


> knock on wood....this team is special- cant wait for Freddie to join the team in september.



I agree this team is very special and this has been a very special year...........I just hope the grand finale, is just as Special


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Wise man once said "when you're in first place, the only scoreboard you gotta watch is your own."
> 
> Keep it up braves.  Great to have prado back and minor looked great again.  If the braves were sending KK down just get him some stamina and then they're planning on bringing him back up to replace minor, they're crazy.



I'm starting to believe. They looked good last night. Our pitching has been strong.


----------



## Jranger

huntindawg said:


> Article in support of nerd 1...
> http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/285/
> 
> Article in support of nerd 2...
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025777/index.htm



I like the footnote about a baseball being hit on the moon too...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

paddlin samurai said:


> knock on wood....this team is special- cant wait for Freddie to join the team in september.



Chances are less and less we'll see Freddie except just for some exposure.  I don't think he'll be on the post-season roster unless he is hitting .750 or something like that.  Derrek Lee to the Braves is looking like a done deal.


----------



## Twiggbuster

The "Fighting Phils" are keeping the heat on my Bravos. 
Man this is a lot of fun. I,ve watched more games this year than the last 3 combined. Good sign is the Braves are scoring runs with 1 homer or less here recently. Should go to the wire and pitching is the name of the game.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Chances are less and less we'll see Freddie except just for some exposure.  I don't think he'll be on the post-season roster unless he is hitting .750 or something like that.  Derrek Lee to the Braves is looking like a done deal.




Yep, he aint coming up now. Derek is a first basemen, Glaus is a first basemen, Hinske is a first basemen. Don't think we need any more first basemen.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Yep, he aint coming up now. Derek is a first basemen, Glaus is a first basemen, Hinske is a first basemen. Don't think we need any more first basemen.



now who's not being original?


----------



## Resica

Phils win 8-2 behind Blanton!!!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Have you or do you face lincecum this series?  Zito went tonight right?


----------



## Resica

They beat Zito last night. Tonight was Cain and tomorrow is Sanchez.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

And the lead is still 2.5...


----------



## Resica

Nice job, another walk off win!! When will it end!


----------



## Blue Iron

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> And the lead is still 2.5...


 
The Kid came through!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

In celebration of the Braves last inning walk off win tonight to make it 4 wins in a row maintaining a 2.5 game 1st place lead, along with Chipper's successful ACL surgery this past Monday, & also celebrating today's new Atlanta MLB upgrade team addition of Derrek Lee, and finally celebrating recently getting Prado back in the line-up, here's a video from a couple nights ago which is the song that is played just before Chipper Jones bats at home:  



Ozzy Osbourne Performs "Crazy Train" 

August 17, 2010 

<object width="873" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4PtlndOffHY?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4PtlndOffHY?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="873" height="525"></embed></object> 

 JimmyKimmelLive  |   August 17, 2010

Ozzy Osbourne Performs "Crazy Train" on Jimmy Kimmel Live


----------



## DSGB

This team has been real exciting to watch. There have been times when they make you shake your head, but they have a lot of fight in 'em. 
Getting Lee will allow Glaus to rest his legs for the stretch run and hopefully the playoffs. I read where they plan on sending him down to get some work at third once he's off the DL. 
Prado didn't miss a beat and having him back in the lineup is huge. I thought they'd put Heyward in the three hole, but see nothing wrong with Prado in that spot. It's working so far.


----------



## Jranger

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Have you or do you face lincecum this series?  Zito went tonight right?



Pretty sure we hit knocked him around the last time we faced him...


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Jranger said:


> Pretty sure we hit knocked him around the last time we faced him...



Lincecum?  We beat him 3-2 with a total of 6 hits, two of which left the yard.  Don't know that I'd call it knocking him around, but we did beat him.


----------



## Jranger

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Lincecum?  We beat him 3-2 with a total of 6 hits, two of which left the yard.  Don't know that I'd call it knocking him around, but we did beat him.



Yeah, 6 hits in the box are all that count. A lot of hard hit balls in the game though. 6 on him is good any day.


----------



## bnew17

the bravos have the mojo right now thats for sure!


----------



## Nitram4891

Watching the gamecast on ESPN.com right now.  It's cool to see the pitch by pitch locations and how they pitch to different guys.


----------



## Blue Iron

Nitram4891 said:


> Watching the gamecast on ESPN.com right now. It's cool to see the pitch by pitch locations and how they pitch to different guys.


 

Not the locations that the Brave's pitchers have been hitting!


----------



## Resica

Figures, Phils lose 5-2!!! Still 2 1/2 back!!!


----------



## Nitram4891

Resica said:


> Figures, Phils lose 5-2!!! Still 2 1/2 back!!!



And we get Derrek Lee tomorrow.


----------



## bfriendly

Soooooooooo Close to another late inning rally! If Macs hit gets passed the first baseman, the game would have been tied...........tough loss(Yea, any is right now).

Going to be very cool to see Lee Start against his Old team!

Go Braves! Oh yea, and GO NATS!!  Get them Phils!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I didn't like Prado bunting in that situation.  Chipper Jones would have never been asked to bunt and Prado shouldn't have been asked, either.


----------



## DSGB

I didn't like it, either. Cox said if he had hit into a DP we would be wondering why he didn't bunt. He is hitting .255 with RISP.

1-9 as a team with RISP isn't gonna win many games. This has been their biggest problem, IMO.

The bottom of the lineup struggled, especially Hinske with the hat trick. Good thing Lee will be joining them this afternoon. 

I have not been impressed with Farnsworth. He's given up 7 runs in 5.2 innings since joining the Braves. Picking up right where he left off. 

O'flaherty should be back soon, also.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I wouldn't have been wondering.  He's our best hitter... let him hit.

Farnsworth has been terrible.


----------



## huntindawg

Farnsworth is terrible. 

Wren not getting an extra arm for the bullpen is gonna kill us if booby keeps going to Farnsworth and Moylan.  I don't know what happened to Pete's family, but it must have been real bad.

I'm hoping Father O'Flaherty comes back strong.


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I didn't like Prado bunting in that situation.  Chipper Jones would have never been asked to bunt and Prado shouldn't have been asked, either.





DSGB said:


> I didn't like it, either. Cox said if he had hit into a DP we would be wondering why he didn't bunt. He is hitting .255 with RISP.
> 
> 1-9 as a team with RISP isn't gonna win many games. This has been their biggest problem, IMO.
> 
> The bottom of the lineup struggled, especially Hinske with the hat trick. Good thing Lee will be joining them this afternoon.
> 
> I have not been impressed with Farnsworth. He's given up 7 runs in 5.2 innings since joining the Braves. Picking up right where he left off.
> 
> O'flaherty should be back soon, also.





Doc_Holliday23 said:


> I wouldn't have been wondering.  He's our best hitter... let him hit.
> 
> Farnsworth has been terrible.





huntindawg said:


> Farnsworth is terrible.
> 
> Wren not getting an extra arm for the bullpen is gonna kill us if booby keeps going to Farnsworth and Moylan.  I don't know what happened to Pete's family, but it must have been real bad.
> 
> I'm hoping Father O'Flaherty comes back strong.



That should be a rule in MLB, the #3 hitter is never allowed to bunt unless it is a suicide squeeze.

Farnsworth was terrible for the pinstripers, and I see things have not changed.  He has stayed around this long because he has, at times, electric stuff that is simply not hittable.  Unfortunately, he falls behind too many counts because his control is....well out of control, and he then dials his stuff back just a bit to get it over the plate.  Scouts, GMs, etc are in love with his potential.


----------



## huntindawg

Did JJ bunt into that double play?


----------



## Nitram4891

Heart Attack Braves do it again.  About time Ankiel!


----------



## gsubo

Would be nice to score some runs early..but we'll take it!


----------



## Resica

Just lovely!!


----------



## Muddyfoots

Resica said:


> Just lovely!!



Wasn't it..


----------



## Twiggbuster

Braves are amazing. This team wants to win!!!
Ankiel looks to be getting comfortable on his new team.
That was a frozen rope  from center field. I heard on the radio that Bobby said it was the best arm he's seen in years. 
Hope Derrick Lee can fit right in . GO BRAVES!!!


----------



## Resica

Phils and Halladay win 1-0!!


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Phils and Halladay win 1-0!!


----------



## xs5875

Seems Lee still has some love for the Cubs. 0-4. PATHETIC.


----------



## bfriendly

Nitram4891 said:


> Heart Attack Braves do it again.  About time Ankiel!



Must have been his "Turn".........seems we have a new Hero each day.  The Braves are amazing............9th inning, 2 outs, 2 strikes, down, but NEVER OUT! 

Isn't ironic how a Fielder makes a great tdefensive play, them comes to the plate to finish off a fantastic game? This time it was Ankiel's Throw, then amazing at bat!!!



> Seems Lee still has some love for the Cubs. 0-4. PATHETIC.



Still has some love for the Cubs? Yea, he went 0-4 on purpose
First at bat he hit a ROPE and just missed hitting it out, hit the ball hard another time at least..........didn't see anything pathetic about it..........looks good at First Base too.......Welcome D Lee!!


----------



## possum steak

Okay folks, I got Barry Bonds' rookie card!

Bidders start bidding & haters start hatin'!


----------



## Nitram4891

Huge hit by Brooks to give us a chance.  Come on Bravos!!  J-Hey is about to get a chance to tie it up.


----------



## Resica

Braves lose, Phils lose............figures!!


----------



## Blue Iron

Resica said:


> Braves lose, Phils lose............figures!!


 
Thanks God!

That Olsen kid who's going for the Nats today is pretty tough too.


----------



## xs5875

I am a Braves fan..but I think we got a bad deal on D.Lee. He peaked in 2005, now has a bad back, and is only hitting .247 with the Cubs, is 0 FOR 7 with us so far, 3 Ks. Probably cost us more runs than hes earning...there.


----------



## Resica

xs5875 said:


> I am a Braves fan..but I think we got a bad deal on D.Lee. He peaked in 2005, now has a bad back, and is only hitting .247 with the Cubs, is 0 FOR 7 with us so far, 3 Ks. Probably cost us more runs than hes earning...there.


We can only hope!!


----------



## Resica

Once again, Braves win, Phils win!!!


----------



## xs5875

Thats getting old..we need wiggle room.


----------



## Resica

Definitely getting old, 1 1/2 or 3 1/2 would at least be a change.


----------



## Blue Iron

Phils lost, lets see if the Bravo's can overcome the 1-0 lead the Rockies have.


----------



## Blue Iron

Blue Iron said:


> Phils lost, lets see if the Bravo's can overcome the 1-0 lead the Rockies have.


 
3-0


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

I know it's frustrating that every time the phials lose, we lose, but when I see they've lost before were finished, it's like playing with house money.

That said, come on Braves, we need some wiggle room!   3 runs in Colorado is nothing.


----------



## Blue Iron

2 run shot by Mr. Prado! 

Heyward was on, he's on FIRE.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Yep... Chipping away at the lead.  The later it gets in the game the more I like our chances.


----------



## SFStephens

Blown call at 2nd ends up costing the Braves.  At least the Phils lost too.  Let's go Braves!


----------



## drhunter1

One thing I'm not impressed with so far, is D. Lee's ability to catch up to a 90+ MPH straight fastball down the middle. It's obvious that somebody knows he can't hit that pitch.


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> One thing I'm not impressed with so far, is D. Lee's ability to catch up to a 90+ MPH straight fastball down the middle. It's obvious that somebody knows he can't hit that pitch.


 
I agree, I saw 2 in his last at bat and was like "He's gonna crus....oh nope, swung through it"


----------



## DSGB

Todd Helton can still swing the stick, especially at home against the Braves and Hudson.
Once again, hitting with RISP was the difference in the game. One or two more hits in those situations and the Braves win. 
The top of the order is getting it done! Prado and Infante are both in the hunt for a batting title. Omar may not get the required at bats, though.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

drhunter1 said:


> One thing I'm not impressed with so far, is D. Lee's ability to catch up to a 90+ MPH straight fastball down the middle. It's obvious that somebody knows he can't hit that pitch.





Blue Iron said:


> I agree, I saw 2 in his last at bat and was like "He's gonna crus....oh nope, swung through it"




Yeah, I've been noticing that too.  Nothing fancy, just your basic fastball blown by him.  He's not even getting a piece of it.

Conrad is turning out to be one of the best pick-ups in years.  He's like money in the bank.


----------



## Blue Iron

Twenty five ought six said:


> Yeah, I've been noticing that too. Nothing fancy, just your basic fastball blown by him. He's not even getting a piece of it.
> 
> Conrad is turning out to be one of the best pick-ups in years. He's like money in the bank.


 

Yep, in the clutch off the bench Conrad is getting it done.


----------



## drhunter1

Twenty five ought six said:


> Yeah, I've been noticing that too.  Nothing fancy, just your basic fastball blown by him.  He's not even getting a piece of it.
> 
> Conrad is turning out to be one of the best pick-ups in years.  He's like money in the bank.




The Cubs knew it and threw the ball by him and now the Rockies know it and they did the same thing to him in two consecutive a/b's.  He has lost some bat speed it looks like. This may have turned out to be not as good of a trade as we first thought.

Conrad is a ballplayer. No doubt about it. We are lucky to have him.


----------



## bfriendly

Twenty five ought six said:


> Yeah, I've been noticing that too.  Nothing fancy, just your basic fastball blown by him.  He's not even getting a piece of it.
> 
> Conrad is turning out to be one of the best pick-ups in years.  He's like money in the bank.



I was hoping I was the only one scratching his head....................guess not.

Hopefully he will come to life 

Big Mac has been struggling big time lately too........Sup with my main man Brian?

C'Mon Braves!!  Can we get Minor back on the mound?  He was lookin Really sharp!


----------



## xs5875

*Rockies win*

LOWE SUX.
D.LEE SUX. 2 for 18 as a Brave....8K's.
Good trade...lol


----------



## drhunter1

At least Lee was fouling off some fastballs last night, but now another hole in his swing arises. The down and in slider. Apparently he can't lay off that pitch and couldn't touch it with a boat paddle.

He looks horrible right now when we really need him to look good. I'm beginning to think this was a bad trade. We are running out of time and the Phillies are going to catch and pass us because we cannot get clutch hits.  

Cabrerra is back to his ole non clutch hitting ways. 

Whats up with Brian McCann giving the Rockies a 4th out. I don't think he was crossed up. Joe Simpson couldn't figure out what he did either. I think he took his eye off the ball watching the runners take off. 

They better get their heads out of their rears or they will be sitting at home watching the playoffs again this year.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

xs5875 said:


> LOWE SUX.
> D.LEE SUX. 2 for 18 as a Brave....8K's.
> Good trade...lol



yeah, Lowe's terrible... I mean, he gave up 3 runs in 6 IP to the Rockies in Coors Field.  What is he thinking?  

Lee is terrible right now.  Glaus will be back at 1B before we know it if something doesn't happen.

Brian McCann... ugh.

But the Phillies lost again, so we survived another day and the magic number got a little smaller.


----------



## Nitram4891

I think we hit into 4 DPs last night...that's 30% of your teams outs on 4 swings.


----------



## biggdogg

one of those home runs, a 2 run job, lowe gave up was 3 inches above the plate. nothing lowe could have done on that one. i doubt anybody in the stadium last night could figure out how he hit it, let alone got it out.

brave's are gonna have to finish with the best record in the national league and get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. they won't get past the nlcs the way they're playing on the road right now.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

sat next to Leo Mazzone at lunch just now...  he was with people so I didn't talk to him.


----------



## erock

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> sat next to Leo Mazzone at lunch just now...  he was with people so I didn't talk to him.



Tell him he better be sitting on the Braves bench next year!!!


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

erock said:


> Tell him he better be sitting on the Braves bench next year!!!



why?  so he can take credit for our great pitching staff again like he did during the 90's?  

I'm only sorta kidding.  We saw what Leo's staff looked like in Baltimore.


----------



## reylamb

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> yeah, Lowe's terrible... I mean, he gave up 3 runs in 6 IP to the Rockies in Coors Field.  What is he thinking?
> 
> Lee is terrible right now.  Glaus will be back at 1B before we know it if something doesn't happen.
> 
> Brian McCann... ugh.
> 
> But the Phillies lost again, so we survived another day and the magic number got a little smaller.



Isn't Troy down at Gwinnett playing 3rd?


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

reylamb said:


> Isn't Troy down at Gwinnett playing 3rd?



playing third?  I guess you could kinda call it that... 

seriously, he's been really struggling in the field.


----------



## huntindawg

reylamb said:


> Isn't Troy down at Gwinnett playing 3rd?



Man, I'd like to go watch that.  It'd be like a night at the ball park mixed w/ a night at the comedy club.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Jurrjens is really p'ing me off today.


----------



## xs5875

Yeah. Braves suck...how do you do that? Drop the ball while trying to make a play..geez. They deserve to lose after playing ball like little leaguers.


----------



## Nitram4891

Not over yet but seriously...this one hurts.  We need to get the heck out of colorado.


----------



## Jranger

Wow....


----------



## Blue Iron

Pitiful.


----------



## quality hunter

Dereck Lee and Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth are washed up veterans bad moves!!


----------



## david w.

This game is pitiful...How can you be winning 10-1 and let them come back to beat you 12-10?


----------



## drhunter1

david13 said:


> This game is pitiful...How can you be winning 10-1 and let them come back to beat you 12-10?




It was almost like we didn't have a scouting report on any of their hitters. We pitchted to their strengths all series long.

And again Bobby leaves a pitcher in too long. If I had hair I would pull it out.


----------



## biggdogg

how exactly is this bobby's fault?? the only pitcher that pitched worth a flip was o'flaherty. the brave's stopped hitting after the 3rd inning and made several bad plays defensively, a couple of which weren't errors on the scoreboard, but hurt none the less.

so what all the bobby cox haters are saying is it's my bosses fault if i don't do my job. i'll see how that works out tomorrow.


----------



## Twiggbuster

Farnsworth got the ground ball he needed after coming in with runners on the corners. What the heck was Infante doing?  That was a groundball out with Chipper on third .  It's anticpation and Infante looked asleep at the wheel. Coors field is a joke- no lead is safe.


----------



## drhunter1

biggdogg said:


> how exactly is this bobby's fault?? the only pitcher that pitched worth a flip was o'flaherty. the brave's stopped hitting after the 3rd inning and made several bad plays defensively, a couple of which weren't errors on the scoreboard, but hurt none the less.
> 
> so what all the bobby cox haters are saying is it's my bosses fault if i don't do my job. i'll see how that works out tomorrow.



So the players are supposed to do their job, but Bobby isn't supposed to recognize when his pitcher is in trouble and doesn't have his good stuff and yank him. You get a 10 run lead, you are supposed to hold onto that.

It kills me. I criticize Bobby Cox and suddenly I'm a hater. Thats a cop out cover up. I love Bobby Cox, but when he screws up, he should hear about it. He gets the credit, he gets the blame, and sometimes he didn't do a darn thing wrong (like the last two games, neither of which were Bobbys fault).


Does your boss have to perform at a certain level or is he too absolved from any criticism?


----------



## biggdogg

i wasn't pointing a finger, i was making a point. like i said, all but one pitcher today stunk it up. going with the thoery of yanking a pitcher when he don't have it(and seriously, how many at coor's field do?) then he'd have run out of pitchers by the 6th inning. do you really want ankiel climbing the hill again? 

if you read the whole thread, there are several guys who think bobby should have been run out of town years ago.

luckily, the phillie's mighty roy halliday couldn't figure out the astro's either


----------



## gsubo

Way to go Braves..way to go..


----------



## Blue Iron

Thank God the Phil's are sucking right now too.


----------



## Phantom15

xs5875 said:


> LOWE SUX.
> D.LEE SUX. 2 for 18 as a Brave....8K's.
> Good trade...lol



Need to send D. Lowe the way of Troy Glaus.........


----------



## drhunter1

biggdogg said:


> i wasn't pointing a finger, i was making a point. like i said, all but one pitcher today stunk it up. going with the thoery of yanking a pitcher when he don't have it(and seriously, how many at coor's field do?) then he'd have run out of pitchers by the 6th inning. do you really want ankiel climbing the hill again?
> 
> if you read the whole thread, there are several guys who think bobby should have been run out of town years ago.
> 
> luckily, the phillie's mighty roy halliday couldn't figure out the astro's either




All I'm saying is, couldn't you see that leaving Venters in for 2 innings wasn't working and that it was too long. Thats all I'm saying. If I can see at and everyone watching can see it, why can't Bobby see it? We were still up at that point by 2 runs. Especially since he loaded the bases.

I don't know. When you give up a hit to the first guy you see and then walk to the 2nd guy, I'm getting a clue that the 1 inning set up guy that I rely on for one inning 99.999% of the time is getting ready to give up the lead and you yank him. 

It's just an oppinion.  I think Bobby has been notorious for leaving pitchers in 1 pitch too long over his career. It's been one of his few flaws in management style. 

Conversely , when he leaves one in whos obviously not got his good stuff and he somehow guts his way out of it, Bobby made the right move, by leaving him in. I believe that to be rare when it comes to his pitchers.


----------



## paddlin samurai

september is our month- time for Lee to start jackin some taters out cheer.


----------



## Hardwoods

Phils lost again today. Maybe the Bravos can pull out of the losing streak tomorrow at home.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> So the players are supposed to do their job, but Bobby isn't supposed to recognize when his pitcher is in trouble and doesn't have his good stuff and yank him. You get a 10 run lead, you are supposed to hold onto that.
> 
> It kills me. I criticize Bobby Cox and suddenly I'm a hater. Thats a cop out cover up. I love Bobby Cox, but when he screws up, he should hear about it. He gets the credit, he gets the blame, and sometimes he didn't do a darn thing wrong (like the last two games, neither of which were Bobbys fault).
> 
> 
> Does your boss have to perform at a certain level or is he too absolved from any criticism?



NONE of the pitchers had their good stuff.  Who was supposed to pitch?

I can understand leaving Jurrjens in because of the lead, but I was ready for him to cvome out when he did.  Jurrjens was supposed to be pitching to contact with a big lead like that, but he wasnt supposed to be grooving it down the middle.

But again, what was Bobby supposed to do?  Every pitcher he put in sucked.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> All I'm saying is, couldn't you see that leaving Venters in for 2 innings wasn't working and that it was too long. Thats all I'm saying. If I can see at and everyone watching can see it, why can't Bobby see it? We were still up at that point by 2 runs. Especially since he loaded the bases.
> 
> I don't know. When you give up a hit to the first guy you see and then walk to the 2nd guy, I'm getting a clue that the 1 inning set up guy that I rely on for one inning 99.999% of the time is getting ready to give up the lead and you yank him.
> 
> It's just an oppinion.  I think Bobby has been notorious for leaving pitchers in 1 pitch too long over his career. It's been one of his few flaws in management style.
> 
> Conversely , when he leaves one in whos obviously not got his good stuff and he somehow guts his way out of it, Bobby made the right move, by leaving him in. I believe that to be rare when it comes to his pitchers.



see, the problem was jurrjens not being able to get out of the 5th inning.  That made them waste EOF in the 6th (should have been moylan), then EOF should have pitched the 7th, venters the 8th, and wagner the 9th.  But Jurrjens is the one that really let the team down and I think he freely admits that.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> It's just an oppinion.  I think Bobby has been notorious for leaving pitchers in 1 pitch too long over his career. It's been one of his few flaws in management style.



every pitcher who gets yanked gets left in one pitch too long...

how many more times has the guy gotten that last out than he's given up that big hit?  Probably 10:1 if not more.

how often do you hear somebody say "Bobby left that guy in just long enough?"  Never.  Because when they don't give up a hit, you never what might have been.


----------



## biggdogg

somebody gets what i'm saying.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> It was almost like we didn't have a scouting report on any of their hitters. We pitchted to their strengths all series long.
> 
> And again Bobby leaves a pitcher in too long. If I had hair I would pull it out.



Agree with this and alsto the Pitiful comment...........this was horrific!

Did we Ever pitch Carlos Gonzales Inside, At all?


----------



## Resica

Finally we're not 2 1/2 back!!!! 3 back!!!


----------



## drhunter1

Resica said:


> Finally we're not 2 1/2 back!!!! 3 back!!!



This is the screwiest baseball season I have ever seen. If you would have asked any one of us if the Astros were going to sweep a 4 game set from the Philly's in Philly, they would have said you were nuts.


----------



## drhunter1

bfriendly said:


> Agree with this and alsto the Pitiful comment...........this was horrific!
> 
> Did we Ever pitch Carlos Gonzales Inside, At all?



Yes and thats the bad thing about it. He couldn't touch it, which makes me think that our heads weren't in that series at all. The defensive lapses and mental lapses were too much to bear.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> every pitcher who gets yanked gets left in one pitch too long...
> 
> how many more times has the guy gotten that last out than he's given up that big hit?  Probably 10:1 if not more.
> 
> how often do you hear somebody say "Bobby left that guy in just long enough?"  Never.  Because when they don't give up a hit, you never what might have been.




Of course nobody's going to say that because he's DOING HIS JOB when he pulls the right strings. He gets praise for doing his job well and he should. 



Answer this, couldn't you see a problem bringing Ventors out for the 2nd inning of pitching? He never pitches 2 innings.

What did you think after the 1st single? How about the walk after that? Keep in mind, we still had the lead at that point with no outs.  Was that a good decision?

All I'm, saying is that if I'm sitting at home and can see this train wreck coming, why can't he see it.

If he would have brought Farnsworth in to pitch that inning instead of letting Ventors go out, and he gave up the lead, that would have been on Farnsworth, not on Bobby, because at that point, the bullpen is getting thin, plus everyone knows that Ventors usually pitches just one inning as a set up guy. You couldn't blame Bobby for that decision. Consequently you couldn't blame Bobby if Farnsworth gave up one run at that point and he decided to bring in another reliever at that point to try and get the outs needed.

You can question however the decision to leave Ventors in long enough to give up the lead because you could see it coming. Especially when the bases got loaded. He had lost it. It was obvious. But he doesn't recognize that quick enough sometimes in my opinion and leaves a obviously struggling pitcher out there to get beat and thats exactly what he did.

What am I thinking?? Don't criticize Bobby at all costs. He shouldnt ever get blamed for a darned thing. Don't ever analyze his decisions. Lord forbid. I'm just a Bobby hater.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

Id rather have a 2nd inning venters than a fresh farnsworth.  Bobby is not trying to manage the game so that the blame doesnt come to him.  hes trying to manage it to win the game.

my only problem with bobby's decision making yesterday is to not have wagner come out in the 8th instead of farnworth.  the rest of the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the pitchers who did not do their jobs.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> Of course nobody's going to say that because he's DOING HIS JOB when he pulls the right strings. He gets praise for doing his job well and he should.



you never know if youre pulling the right strings or not.  if he pulls a guy, we never know if he wouldve gotten the guy out.

how often does he pull a guy and then the next guy comes in and gives up a hit?  it happens all the time.  that's baseball.

we can all be thankful the Phillies spit up another half game for us.  we played our worst baseball over a 3 day stretch in 3 months, and we ghained a 1/2 game.


----------



## drhunter1

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> you never know if youre pulling the right strings or not.  if he pulls a guy, we never know if he wouldve gotten the guy out.
> 
> how often does he pull a guy and then the next guy comes in and gives up a hit?  it happens all the time.  that's baseball.
> 
> we can all be thankful the Phillies spit up another half game for us.  we played our worst baseball over a 3 day stretch in 3 months, and we ghained a 1/2 game.





Yep it's been a wierd season. I can't believe the Phills lost at home to the Astros 4 straight times.


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> Of course nobody's going to say that because he's DOING HIS JOB when he pulls the right strings. He gets praise for doing his job well and he should.
> 
> 
> 
> Answer this, couldn't you see a problem bringing Ventors out for the 2nd inning of pitching? He never pitches 2 innings.
> 
> What did you think after the 1st single? How about the walk after that? Keep in mind, we still had the lead at that point with no outs. Was that a good decision?
> 
> All I'm, saying is that if I'm sitting at home and can see this train wreck coming, why can't he see it.
> 
> If he would have brought Farnsworth in to pitch that inning instead of letting Ventors go out, and he gave up the lead, that would have been on Farnsworth, not on Bobby, because at that point, the bullpen is getting thin, plus everyone knows that Ventors usually pitches just one inning as a set up guy. You couldn't blame Bobby for that decision. Consequently you couldn't blame Bobby if Farnsworth gave up one run at that point and he decided to bring in another reliever at that point to try and get the outs needed.
> 
> You can question however the decision to leave Ventors in long enough to give up the lead because you could see it coming. Especially when the bases got loaded. He had lost it. It was obvious. But he doesn't recognize that quick enough sometimes in my opinion and leaves a obviously struggling pitcher out there to get beat and thats exactly what he did.
> 
> What am I thinking?? Don't criticize Bobby at all costs. He shouldnt ever get blamed for a darned thing. Don't ever analyze his decisions. Lord forbid. I'm just a Bobby hater.


 

Venters was a STARTER in the minors, in my opinion ANY major league pitcher should be able to pitch more than ONE inning.


----------



## biggdogg

looks like the bats didn't show up at turner field tonight, and tommy just looked bad.


----------



## vanguard1

they better get it together , a sweep and now a loss to fla come on guys, philly is coming.


----------



## bfriendly

Blue Iron said:


> Venters was a STARTER in the minors, in my opinion ANY major league pitcher should be able to pitch more than ONE inning.



AGREE 100%



> looks like the bats didn't show up at turner field tonight, and tommy just looked bad.



Another PAINFUL to Watch game



> they better get it together , a sweep and now a loss to fla come on guys, philly is coming.



At this rate, we better watch out for the Mets too!  Heck, the Marlins are NOT out of it either, and they know THIS Series is HUGE to them......Maybe even MASSIVE! 

 If they sweep the Braves then where do they stand?  This thing is far from over,  the Marlins have to be hopeful, but desperate at this point.........The Braves better start getting a real sense of urgency too!!


----------



## drhunter1

Blue Iron said:


> Venters was a STARTER in the minors, in my opinion ANY major league pitcher should be able to pitch more than ONE inning.




He's been a reliever all year and the most used one at that. I don't think he's pitched 2 consecutive innings all year long. If it were something he should do, why doesn't he do it more often?


----------



## Blue Iron

drhunter1 said:


> He's been a reliever all year and the most used one at that. I don't think he's pitched 2 consecutive innings all year long. If it were something he should do, why doesn't he do it more often?


 

I've asked that question several times! I'm like Doc, I'd rather have a 2nd inning Venters than a fresh Farnsworth.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

drhunter1 said:


> He's been a reliever all year and the most used one at that. I don't think he's pitched 2 consecutive innings all year long. If it were something he should do, why doesn't he do it more often?



Because he usually doesn't have to.  The bullpen roles are pretty clearly defined.  Moylan is the 7th inning guy, either Venters or Saito in the 8th depending on who is coming up to bat, and obviously Wagner in the 9th.

By the way, huge comeback win today.  It hasn't been pretty but it was nice to bounce back and win the series with the pesky marlins.  That kind of comeback win could also be pretty demoralizing for the Phillies.  Here's hoping they give one back tonight.


----------



## bfriendly

Doc_Holliday23 said:


> Because he usually doesn't have to.  The bullpen roles are pretty clearly defined.  Moylan is the 7th inning guy, either Venters or Saito in the 8th depending on who is coming up to bat, and obviously Wagner in the 9th.
> 
> By the way, huge comeback win today.  It hasn't been pretty but it was nice to bounce back and win the series with the pesky marlins.  That kind of comeback win could also be pretty demoralizing for the Phillies.  Here's hoping they give one back tonight.



HOLY COW!!!  I cannot believe you guys are not going NUTS about this one

Maybe its just another Come from behind, last at Bat WIN

SIMPLY AMAZING..........This kind of stuff is simply Amazing.   I think we got a boost we really needed and this shows just how Good and Deep the Braves whole team is.  Cruddy start from the pitcher(AGAIN),  but the TEAM Made it happen.

All the series left are BIG,  starting tonight with the Mets.............GO BRAVES!!


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## Resica

2 back, finally!!


----------



## redlevel

Dodgers one-hit the Phillies one to nothing.

Braves bury mets, now lead Phillies by three full games again.


----------



## Blue Iron

redlevel said:


> Dodgers one-hit the Phillies one to nothing.
> 
> Braves bury mets, now lead Phillies by three full games again.


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## Doc_Holliday23

Thanks dodgers!


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## Resica

At least it's not 2 1/2.


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## Doc_Holliday23

I always know its a good day if Resica posts a 

He's had a headache for a loooooooooooong time.


----------



## DSGB

The top of the lineup is getting it done! 

Great game for Heyward with another 4 RBI performance. His base running instincts and flat out hustle have impressed me the most.


----------



## Muddyfoots

Minor is getting "squeezed" pretty hard tonite. Some terrible calls.


----------



## Resica

Phils up 6-1 after 3.


----------



## DSGB

Muddyfoots said:


> Minor is getting "squeezed" pretty hard tonite. Some terrible calls.



Yep. Heyward got rung up on a pitch that Minor wasn't getting. He still managed to throw 61 of his 104 pitches for strikes.
A couple lasers hit in the fifth (Heyward and Ross) after that error by Castillo. Good to see Lee getting it going.
They are getting hits with RISP. As long as they keep that up, they should continue to win.


----------



## Twenty five ought six

DSGB said:


> Yep. Heyward got rung up on a pitch that Minor wasn't getting. He still managed to throw 61 of his 104 pitches for strikes.
> A couple lasers hit in the fifth (Heyward and Ross) after that error by Castillo. Good to see Lee getting it going.
> They are getting hits with RISP. As long as they keep that up, they should continue to win.




If I was a Little League coach I'm make a clip of that error, so every time you told them to "get down on the ball" they would understand why.

That was about as good "through the wicket" as you will ever see.

Last 2 nights have had some pretty hitting.  The homers are nice, but those solid hits to the outfield are putting up the runs.  

Looks to me like all the batters are showing a lot more patience, going deeper into the count to get a good pitch.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

After their win earlier today, it ought to make Resica happy that the Phils won & cut the 1st place Braves lead from 3 down to 2.5 now.  

After the hot hitting & scoring last nite, was expecting Atlanta to have a less stellar, slower going game tonight but at the end of the 1st Braves are winning 2 to 0 already.  

Looks like Lowe will be rehabbing his sore arm & not pitching this week so Kamakami will be filling in.  I never feel good or positive with either pitching since neither have been winning much this season.


----------



## Blue Iron

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> After their win earlier today, it ought to make Resica happy that the Phils won & cut the 1st place Braves lead from 3 down to 2.5 now.
> 
> After the hot hitting & scoring last nite, was expecting Atlanta to have a less stellar, slower going game tonight but at the end of the 1st Braves are winning 2 to 0 already.
> 
> Looks like Lowe will be rehabbing his sore arm & not pitching this week so Kamakami will be filling in. I never feel good or positive with either pitching since neither have been winning much this season.


 
I'd lots rather have Lowe....

Glad to see Hanson throw 7 innings of 1 hit ball tonight.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Yep, I know what you mean.  Seems like the team does not rally around & produce runs when KK's pitching.

Wow, good to see J-Hey go 4 for 4 already tonight, but also for the 4th time this season, even despite the close call of him being thrown out trying to steal a base just now.


----------



## Resica

Phils win!! I suppose the Braves won too. 3 games is ok for a few days.


----------



## bfriendly

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> After their win earlier today, it ought to make Resica happy that the Phils won & cut the 1st place Braves lead from 3 down to 2.5 now.
> 
> After the hot hitting & scoring last nite, was expecting Atlanta to have a less stellar, slower going game tonight but at the end of the 1st Braves are winning 2 to 0 already.
> 
> Looks like Lowe will be rehabbing his sore arm & not pitching this week so Kamakami will be filling in.  I never feel good or positive with either pitching since neither have been winning much this season.




Yea, me too.................hopefully,  this time he will get a win...........does he have any yet?


----------



## Blue Iron

bfriendly said:


> Yea, me too.................hopefully, this time he will get a win...........does he have any yet?


 
He got a win against Detroit in his last start, he's 1-9.


----------



## DSGB

Still getting hits with runners in scoring position.


----------



## Jranger

Random question for the gurus on here...

Why is a pall pitched in the dirt changed out when a ball that is hit into the infield or outfield for an out returned to the pitcher...
Just curious, never really figured that one out.


----------



## DSGB

Because it usually scratches the ball to where the pitcher has the advantage of getting a better grip for his breaking pitches. The same reason the seams on a big league ball are non-existant compared to a LL ball.


----------



## Jranger

DSGB said:


> Because it usually scratches the ball to where the pitcher has the advantage of getting a better grip for his breaking pitches. The same reason the seams on a big league ball are non-existant compared to a LL ball.



I thought that as well, but would a ball smoked through the infield have a few scuffs as well?


----------



## Blue Iron

Jranger said:


> I thought that as well, but would a ball smoked through the infield have a few scuffs as well?


 
That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## biggdogg

if you go to a game, more often than not, you will see the pitcher toss the ball out out of play and get a new one from the ump. very rarely do they show that on tv.  there are 2 kids sitting at the home plate end of the home dugout that handle the balls.


----------



## Doc_Holliday23

It does seem that pitchers nowadays are more accustomed to throwing a clean baseball instead of one with a few scuffs.  Throwing it out after a pitch in the dirt, I think, is to keep a pitcher from intentionally scuffing a ball with his first pitch and then using it the rest of the AB.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Ouch, on regular OTA TV the Mets already jumped on Huddy for 2 runs in the 1st with a total of 5 hits near the end of the 2nd, but Braves with McCann's HR got us on the scoreboard with 1 run to get us back in the game in the 2nd.  

Oops, sorry if I interrupted you watching the scoreless Falcons game also on regular OTA TV so far.


----------



## Resica

Phils are down 4 in the 4th!!


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Resica said:


> Phils are down 4 in the 4th!!



Just saw a stat on TV that the Phils have the best ERA at 2.98 with the Bravos right behind them at 3.17 but cannot tell it tonight with losing right now to Mets 4 to 1 in the top of the 8th.


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## Resica

Phils are down 7-3 in the top of the 7th.


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## BornToHuntAndFish

Resica said:


> Phils are down 7-3 in the top of the 7th.



Humongous 7th inning for the Phil scoring 9 runs going ahead 12 to 7 with scoring in 4 innings in a row also with a ton of hitting by both, 14 for PHI and 14 for COL.  


2 Errors again tonight for the Braves aren't contributing towards any winning efforts.  Here in the bottom of the 9th, Atlanta has to score 2 to at least tie to go into extra innings.


----------



## Resica

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Humongous 7th inning for the Phil scoring 9 runs going ahead 12 to 7 with scoring in 4 innings in a row also with a ton of hitting by both, 14 for PHI and 14 for COL.
> 
> 2 Errors again tonight for the Braves aren't contributing towards any winning efforts.  Here in the bottom of the 9th, Atlanta has to score 2 to at least tie to go into extra innings.



Nice inning!!!


----------



## Resica

They've given 3 back so far!!


----------



## gsubo

KK on the mound and we're losing 5-1 to the fish..what a surprise..


----------



## Resica

Phils and Hamels are up 1-0, mid 7th.


----------



## Resica

Phils win 1-0. Could they pull within 1?


----------



## HermanMerman

Resica said:


> Phils win 1-0. Could they pull within 1?



The Bravos pretty much gave tonight's game away when they gave Kawakami the start.  

 This division is going to come down to the last weekend of the regular season. That will be one sweet weekend of baseball.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Uh-oh, it's getting to close for comfort with the Braves holding 1st place ONLY by 1.0 game.


----------



## bfriendly

HermanMerman said:


> The Bravos pretty much gave tonight's game away when they gave Kawakami the start.
> 
> This division is going to come down to the last weekend of the regular season. That will be one sweet weekend of baseball.



  I sure hope this is the LAST STRAW!  Why in the world he came back from a struggling lower league performance is beyond me

Surely we have SOMEBODY down below who could have come up and done better..........I would have felt better having Ankiel back on the mound rather than one sorry apples of a pitcher Kawakami has been.

This was not even painful, it was PITIFUL!  Even the look on Bobby's face last night was like-"what the heck am I doing putting this sorry sack of duds back out there?".........BC looked Embarrassed, and I hope Wren felt Embarrassed too........Dear Lord please let this be the LAST TIME I see KK out on the mound as a Brave

I wish KK well, but I also wish him Somewhere else! 
Any team coming up against the Braves with KK on the mound is going to feel like they have the game in the bag, before it ever starts.

In case you have not noticed, I am as frustrated as I have been this whole season.


----------



## Resica

Phils win 5-4!!


----------



## Resica

Braves lose, Phils lose.   Same old story.


----------



## seaweaver

but...there is a one game difference!
I was asking what Nate was doing in the line up...and then he contributes.
cw


----------



## DSGB

Tough loss after coming back from down 5 to tie it. At least the Phils lost, too.
I hope Logan Morrison is alright after getting drilled with that foul ball. I guess it was enough to distract O'Flaherty, who gave up a double to Bonafacio on the next pitch with an 0-2 count. Logan's replacement came through with the game winner. 
Good to see McClouth hitting some balls hard. They made some great defensive plays on him, especially that catch in center by Maybin to possibly rob him of a grand slam.


----------



## Resica

Phils lose the first, win the second. 1/2 game back now.


----------



## DSGB

Braves seem to be treading water, but lost ground due to the Phils' win in the second game of the double-header.
They are leaving too many men on base. It's tough when you are out-hitting your opponent, but losing the games.
They need to take advantage of the fact that we are playing the Pirates!


----------



## drhunter1

Braves are masters of playing down to their competition when it counts. This is no time to making the pitcher with HIGHEST ERA in the majors, look like Sandy Koufax. 

The D Lee experiment is over. He cannot hit with power and he hits very little in the clutch.  I swear it seems like everything we have tried to do has backfired. D Lee was supposed to be what we needed. I believed it and thought it was a good deal. Now I am second guessing that. 

This is pathetic baseball.


----------



## Resica

drhunter1 said:


> Braves are masters of playing down to their competition when it counts. This is no time to making the pitcher with HIGHEST ERA in the majors, look like Sandy Koufax.
> 
> The D Lee experiment is over. He cannot hit with power and he hits very little in the clutch.  I swear it seems like everything we have tried to do has backfired. D Lee was supposed to be what we needed. I believed it and thought it was a good deal. Now I am second guessing that.
> 
> This is pathetic baseball.



How ironic, the Phils seem to do the same thing.


----------



## livetohunt

It was only a matter of time til the Philly's took over first place. Now let's keep our fingers crossed the Braves can win the wildcard. It is going to be tough with no power hitters to drive in the Infante, Hayward, and Prato.


----------



## DSGB

The NL East won't be decided until the last two weeks of the season, unless one team gets a 6+ game lead in the next week and a half. The Phillies and Braves face off six of the last 12 games, ending with a three game set in Atlanta. Don't count anyone out yet.


----------



## drhunter1

DSGB said:


> The NL East won't be decided until the last two weeks of the season, unless one team gets a 6+ game lead in the next week and a half. The Phillies and Braves face off six of the last 12 games, ending with a three game set in Atlanta. Don't count anyone out yet.




I agree, but it is difficult to think that the Braves can do it given the fact that they left 30+ men on base against the worst team in Baseball. We still have one game to go. Thats pretty bad.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Sorry to see the Braves slip to 2nd place, but at least they have something more to get them motivated back to winning.  Atlanta has not been doing as well since the All-Star break, but at least they held on to 1st place much longer & had more sustained winning performances than I initially expected early in the season.  

Resica is probably a happy camper with the Phils moving into 1st.


----------



## whitworth

*You wait around a few months*

and they're not in first place.


----------



## bfriendly

drhunter1 said:


> Braves are masters of playing down to their competition when it counts. This is no time to making the pitcher with HIGHEST ERA in the majors, look like Sandy Koufax.
> 
> The D Lee experiment is over. He cannot hit with power and he hits very little in the clutch.  I swear it seems like everything we have tried to do has backfired. D Lee was supposed to be what we needed. I believed it and thought it was a good deal. Now I am second guessing that.
> 
> This is pathetic baseball.




Last night when Dlee was up with bases loaded I watched him  watch 2 pitches go by, right down the middle

Can we PLEASE put Glaus back on first?  Seems as though Lee is scared to swing at the first pitch.........I have seen tooo many first pitch strikes to him go right down the middle......I think alot of our players could learn a thing or two from Melkys attempts to go the other way. Since Derek cannot catch up to a fast ball, he could at least try to start hitting it the other way......he should have enough power to get one over the fence to the opposite field.....so far he has not hit one out of the park as a Brave, unless I have missed it.


----------



## Nitram4891

Big lead tonight in the 3rd.  Let's not put it in cruise though, we need this win and a certain recent game comes to mind...


----------



## xs5875

xs5875 said:


> LOWE SUX.
> D.LEE SUX. 2 for 18 as a Brave....8K's.
> Good trade...lol


..this is the song that never ends..yes it goes on and on my friends...just new lyrics now..16 for 63...lol.


----------



## Meriwether Mike

The Braves just started their playoff baseball early.  Hope they can right the ship.


----------

