# Holy Spirit baptism



## blindhog (May 1, 2005)

When do you think it happens?


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## Randy (May 1, 2005)

The second you accept Christ as your savior.  The church baptisim is for show.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (May 1, 2005)

Amen Randy!


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## Woody's Janitor (May 1, 2005)

Why did Jesus make John the Baptist baptise him? Was that a show for the church?


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## Ga-Spur (May 1, 2005)

Jesus was setting an example. Jesus wants us to acknowledge him before man ; that he may acknowledge us before 
GOD.


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## jason308 (May 1, 2005)

When we accept Christ as our Savior, the Holy Spirit enters into us and fills us. But look in the book of Acts when the disciples waited in the upper room for the Spirit to fill them and they began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Was this for show? Absolutely not. They were all believers who had been born again but had now received the promised gift of the Holy Spirit. The Gift of tongues is for use in the church when others are there who will exercise the spiritual gift of interpretation as a sign to nonbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22). Paul speaks of this in most of his books in the New Testament, and also speaks of his Spirit communicating with God in tongues he cannot interpret. He is referring to a prayer language given by the Holy Spirit, which he will exercise to build up his own Spirit and fellowship with God. Paul also poses the question, what should he do with each  and answers that he will do both (1 Corinthians 14:15). Is this for show? Evidently not, as it is included and taught by Paul to nearly every church he writes his letters to. The death of our savior Jesus on the cross gave the gift of eternal life to all who believe and tore the veil away so that we could commune with God through the Holy Spirit. We are to pray for understanding, and for discernment, and study the Scriptures so that we can further understand the blessings God has given us and how to take full advantage of these blessings in our lives and in the lives of others. Is it real, absolutely, if we will let the Spirit work through us (and this IS NOT the ONLY way, it is one of many). I know that this is real from my personal experience, and I was not taught anything about the Gifts of the Spirit growing up. However, it is like the dirt swept under the rug in many churches and therefore is not understood by many. And I an NOT saying that I have a full understanding of God's will and plan for our lives, I myself or no one else can grasp all that God has done for us and all that He has for us. Believe it or not, it is real, and I will pray for understanding for all of us (myself included) and try to be the man God would want for me to be. When we accept Christ, we are all saved and will spend eternity with God in Heaven. However, this is not all that He has for us.


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## Branchminnow (May 2, 2005)

Baptism although not neccessary to make it into heaven it is essential in that you will enjoy your salvation more if you come out and show the world that you have been saved by the grace of  God. And yes just like feetwashing Christ did set an example for all of us to do.


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## Branchminnow (May 2, 2005)

As for the topic of the thread (sorry) a holy spirit baptism is just as Randy said the holy spirit baptizes the soul not the body which will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


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## gordon 2 (May 2, 2005)

*Some*

I have seen somewhere that the Holy Spirit is synonymed as the Spirit of Truth, the spirit of |"discernment" as Jason states...

It is indeed the  Spirit of Truth when Jesus says this: " If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." Luke 16: 31  For who is Moses and  who are the Prophets without the Holy Spirit?

And I teach children that they are in the Kingdom of Heaven, here and now, as soon as they try to drive by the rules of its roads. How can they call Him Lord, know of his justice and his will and not walk (drive) into his Kingdom now? " The Kingdom of God is within you."  Luke 17:30


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## Randy (May 2, 2005)

Woody's Janitor said:
			
		

> Why did Jesus make John the Baptist baptise him? Was that a show for the church?



Yes what I meant by "for show" is that it is to show the world that you have accepted Christ.  I my opinion it is not really necessary if you live your life as an example.  I have no problem with Baptisim,  I have been Baptised, but I do not believe it is a requirement to enter Heaven.


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## coastga (May 2, 2005)

jason308, great post! I'm glad to read your post becasue it is dead on the money. 

You cannot come to Christ without the drawing of the Holy Ghost. So, each person that is Saved had the Holy Ghost to draw them to Christ Jesus. All saved Christians have the Holy Ghost with them, but not all saved people are baptisted with the Holy Ghost. The baptisim of the Holy Ghost is the gift that was commanded by Jesus that the believers (those that were already saved by Christ Jesus) were to recieve.

For the Christian that is *Hungry* for more of God, there is more than just salvation. Jesus has given the gift of the babtism of the Holy Ghost. It is for you today! Amen!

Coastga


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

According to scripture, the evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit was 'speaking in tongues'.    I was baptized in the Holy Ghost years ago....and that is the only time I have spoken in tongues.    I didn't have to 'make up words" or anything, it just flowed out....naturally.    Some of you may think it strange, but no one can take that event away from me.    He filled me....just as was promised in Acts.   "The promise (as was being witnessed that day) was for you, your children, and your childrens children, as many are afar off.....".     



Water baptism.....    nowhere in scripture is someone baptised before they come to a belief in Christ.     Never as a baby.....   More unscriptural tradition entering the picture...


Bandy


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 3, 2005)

Let me ask a question with no disrespect intended.  First, just exactly what happens when a person is baptised with the Holy Spirit?
My reasoning:  First, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are one in the same (trinity).  Now, according to scripture, as a Christian, it is not I that lives, but it is Jesus Christ that lives in me.  My old self has died and I have been reborn.  Now, being that I believe in a triune God, I am indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Now, baptism is a symbol of the rebirth, of the old man dying and the reborn man rising.  It is a symbol of being "born again" and in that, I am now indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Now, my second question.  I wasn't compelled to speak in tongues.  Does that mean the Holy Spirit never came into me?  If so, I guess that means I was never born again?


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## coastga (May 3, 2005)

After you read this scripture, you can see that a person can be born-again and not received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
(Acts 8:12-30) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:  (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.”
How can you tell when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost? By speaking in tongues, this is the initial evidence. 
Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 10:44-46 “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God”
You know that you Know that you have received the gift of the Holy Ghost when you speak with tongues.

Coastga


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 3, 2005)

So, speaking in tongues is the ONLY evidence?


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## PWalls (May 3, 2005)

David Mills said:
			
		

> So, speaking in tongues is the ONLY evidence?



Good question.

I don't know anything about speaking in tongues. Isn't that a Pentacostal or Church of God thing?

If that is the only evidence, then pretty much everyone outside of their belief hasn't been baptized by the Holy Spirit then.


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

Baptism in water and by the Holy Ghost were two seperate events, and neither occured when one 'believed'...it was later.   

No offense taken.

Bandy


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

Pwalls,

"speaking in tongues" is not a Pentecostal or Church of God thing, it's a scripture thing!!!!        "He who prays in an unknown tongue edifies himself"...

Bandy


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## coastga (May 3, 2005)

Please go back and read my post. "It is the initial evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost." Every place in scripture where a person believed upon Jesus Christ, the initial evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost was speaking in tongues. It is no different today.

Coastga


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 3, 2005)

> Baptism in water and by the Holy Ghost were two seperate events.



Well surely, most of us can agree that water baptism is symbolic and just because someone is dunked does not mean they are saved nor does water baptism itself save.

I contend that when we are saved, we receive Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.  The water baptism is merely a public display of obedience and one of the “burying” of the dead former self, and the reborn new self which actually happens when one is saved.

Now, what distinguishes “Holy Spirit baptism” from 1 Corintians 12:13 which says: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

"Holy Spirit Baptism" was something that others could witness.    Who was it that wanted to buy the ability to give the Holy Ghost to others by laying on hands?     Also,  (forgive me for not remembering who/where) what group was it that believed on Jesus but "had not so much as heard of this 'holy ghost'"....???

Bandy


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## Zack attack (May 3, 2005)

Notice that in the NT when some body speaks in tongue they have impowerment for ministry. When they speak in tongues people get saved. Paul writes in 1st cor. about the speaking of tongues and lists out the circumstances in which it should be done and how. He does not put down speaking in tongue, he says it is a good thing, but he does say that prophecy is more desirable. I believe that he wrote this because speaking in tongues was getting out of hand and even imitated. I believe that the gift of tongues is given (especially on the mission field) but is not given as much in countrys were we speak universal languages. When some one is baptized in the spirit they will have impowerment of ministry, people around them will be getting saved!!!!! So if some one is speaking in tongues but their spirtual life outside of church does not show it then they are faking it. I think todays church is mostly faking it. It is very imortant to remember if you have all of the spirtual gifts and do not have love, you have nothing (1st cor. 13) In whole I think our church needs to repent of their lack of love.  God Bless.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 3, 2005)

I can understand the need for others to witness a Christian's devotion and spiritual life.  But this does not answer my inquiry about 1 Cor 12:13.   Understand that I am trying to honestly understand why there is so much emphasis placed on speaking in tongues when Paul says it takes all the various gifts to make the church whole.  1 Cor 12 says they were all baptised by the Spirit but not all spoke in tongues.  So, is it the contention of some that speaking in tongues is the ONLY sign of Spirit baptism, or is it possible that there are other things that can be manifested in a person (by the Holy Spirit) that indicated Spirit baptism?


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

David,

In the New Testament, the only evidence for the infilling of the Holy Ghost was speaking in tongues.   I don't beieve that someone who is filled with the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in tongues, will continue to have the ability.   Take me, for example.  As I stated before, the only time I spoke with tongues was when I was baptised with the Holy Ghost.    I was saved ~13 years of age, but was not filled with the Holy Ghost until I was 31.    My advice would be to pray about it, and ask God (since it is a promise) to baptise you with the Holy Ghost, if you desire it.    When I was filled, it was VERY POWERFUL.   My infilling lasted for hours.....well into the evening.   I remember that scriptures, even normal everyday scriptures like John 3:16, became very powerful to me.    I honestly wish that I could experience that again, and I may, but nothing beats that first time!    I will have that 'adventure in God' for the rest of my life.    

I'm not offended and you, or anyone, that asks  or questions the baptism in the Holy Ghost.    It's hard to explain unless you've received it, but no one can tell me that it was not real....it was beyond real, and promised to any believer.

Bandy


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## PWalls (May 3, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Pwalls,
> 
> "speaking in tongues" is not a Pentecostal or Church of God thing, it's a scripture thing!!!!        "He who prays in an unknown tongue edifies himself"...
> 
> Bandy



What I mean is that aren't those typically the only "religions" that ascribe to the speaking in tongues as and evidence or requirement to prove indwelling of the Holy Spirit?


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 3, 2005)

I knew what you meant....   )    Actually, they are not the typical 'religions', but the main christian 'denominations' that ascribe to 'tongues'.           Assemblies of God is another of the main denominations, and that is the church that I spent my first years in.

Bandy


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## jason308 (May 3, 2005)

PWalls said:
			
		

> What I mean is that aren't those typically the only "religions" that ascribe to the speaking in tongues as and evidence or requirement to prove indwelling of the Holy Spirit?



PWalls- The reason the gifts given by the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with the Fruit of The Spirit) are not seen and exercised more in churches (especially in America) is that in most churches this empowerment is like the dirt swept under the rug. It is real, it happens today, each believer can recieve the gifts of the Spirit (tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, gifts of healing- 1 Cor 12:1-11) after being filled with the Holy Spirit. We must study the Word in its entirety and not take part of one chapter and disregard the nexy. Bandy-  Any believer can exercise a "prayer language" with the Holy Spirit and Paul covers this topic in 1 Cor 14:15-25. He speaks of praying in the Spirit and singing in the Spirit as well as praying and singing in words that he can understand. This is not exactly the same as the gift of tongues spoken about in 1 Cor 12:1-11. Paul's letters to the Church are filled with teachings on this wonderful gift from God. You don't have to exercise any of these gifts to be saved by any means, there is just much more out there for the believer who seeks and desires such. We must study the Word and pray that God will give us understanding on such matters, and if we seek such, He will respond. It is His PROMISE. 
Guys, this is great stuff. Keep it coming.


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## coastga (May 3, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH,

I was baptised with the Holy Ghost over 16 years ago with the evidence of speaking in tongues and I speek in tonques most every day of my life. It is a closeness with God. Paul the Apostle said it like this, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Corinthians 14:18). His Holy Ghost baptism did not stop after his initial indewlling and neither should ours.

If you ask God to help you with your prayer language, He will.
Coastga


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 3, 2005)

I feel if 1 Cor 14:18 is going to be used then the whole quote should be included (verse 19).  Also, the entire chapter puts it in better perspective than verse 18 alone.

(18) I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; ﻿ (19)﻿ yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

But, I still don't understand so let me ask in a different way.
First, where does the Bible specifically delineate the difference between being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and baptism in the Holy Spirit?
Second, by being "baptised" in the Holy Spirit, does that mean you are a greater spiritual level?

Now, let's go back to chapter 12 because no one specifically adressed it.  Chapter 12 says they were all baptised by the Holy Spirit yet not all spoke in tongues.  Is chapter 12 wrong?


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 4, 2005)

Well, we know from scripture that when you are baptised with the Holy Ghost that they spoke with tongues at that moment, 9on every occasion) so unless someone has spoken in tongues, IMHO, they have not been baptised.   Let me add that, as far as I remember, many of the Holy Ghost baptisms required 'the laying on of hands'....not just believing.   So, we have made clear that there is a unique occurance with the baptism.   And, as I stated earlier, being baptised in the Holy Ghost does not necessarily mean that you will have the 'gift' of speaking in tongues, as I have not spoken with tongues since I was filled.    

I'm not sure that scripture spells out when the Holy Spirit is given as an indwelling person as clearly as it does the baptism in the Holy Ghost, so I'll have to do some research.    I'm sure it is at salvation.

Bandy


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 4, 2005)

Bandy,

One of my problems is that I have discussed this, person to person, with a few folks who believe there is a baptism in the Holy Spirit, Baptism BY the Holy Spirit; and in many cases they seem to present it as some sort of superior spiritual level.  And I guess that's where a lot of people have a problem with the whole "speaking in tongues" thing.
I also have to agree with Paul when he stated that some one who publically speaks in tongues does so to edify himself.
 I will not argue that in some cases, when the Holy Spirit comes upon someone that the person is compelled to speak in some unknown tongue which seems to be gibberish to others.  In fact, since the tongue is unknown, it really is basically gibberish (I don't mean that negatively).  I also believe that different people will be compelled in different ways when the Holy Spirit comes upon them.  I've seen people shout, I've seen people cry, and I've seen people laugh.
I have seen no clear delineation between what is referred to as baptism in/by the Holy Spirit and what is called receiving or being filled by the Holy Spirit.  Now, if they are one and the same, then there are numerous instances in Scripture that during this "event", that people did not speak in tongues.
In Acts 19:6 it says they began to speak in tongues and they prophecied: this was after Paul laid hands on them and "the Holy Spirit came upon them".  So now, maybe we need to add prophecy into the equation.  Also, now we add another action word concerning the Holy Spirit "came upon/on";  we also have "filled by/with".  So, what is the difference?


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## blindhog (May 5, 2005)

John the Baptist foretold of Jesus and a significant baptism by Him.

There is but one significant baptism.

Eph 4;5..."One Lord, one faith, one baptism."

As a result of our repentant belief(or good conscience toward God), we are saved by Holy Spirit baptism:

1 Peter 3:21.."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

What is the evidence?

1John 4:6.."We are of God;  he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.  Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

The sciptures are our written guideline. NOT our personal experiences, unless they are in line with scriptural boundaries.

Not everyone who believed in the bible was speaking with tongues:
Acts 9:42..."And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord."

Actually this thread is about the baptism by Jesus of the Holy Spirit.


A tongues thread would need to be started to discuss the scriptural teaching on the gift of tongues.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 5, 2005)

> A tongues thread would need to be started to discuss the scriptural teaching on the gift of tongues


I agree, but I believe that there are 2 separate circumstances when folks speak in tongues.  There is the cricumstance where someone prays in tongues and that is the "gift" part.  Then there is the circumstance in what I believe some folks refer to as Holy Spirit baptism.

In 1 Cor 12:13a, Paul talks about all gifts as coming from baptism in the Holy Spirit:
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"

This is why I am confused.  Some folks say there is a distinct difference.  But Paul seems to wrap it up as the same.


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 5, 2005)

David,

I tend to agree with you, since I have not had the 'ability' to speak in tongues since I was filled.    The only time I did, and the tongues were fluid at the time, was when I was filled.    It lasted for several hours as well.     I'm not sure that, if everyone who has been baptised in the Holy Ghost should have the abllity to pray in tongues at will, I should have to 'learn' it or work at the ability.    This discussion has made me start praying about it though.

Bandy


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 5, 2005)

Bandy,

May I suggest that you just pray for God's will in your life and that whatever gift(s) you have that you ask God to magnify those gifts.  It takes the many parts of the body to make the body whole.  No one gift is greater than the other and we are all called to serve in different ways.

I can remember when I first accepted Christ, I was alone in my garage but the feeling was incredible.  I know that at that time I was being filled with the Holy Spirit, though my body was completely numb.  I fully expected to open my eyes and find myself ascending.  I wasn't thinking or saying anything, I couldn't.  It was the most euphoric feeling I have ever had.  I have never had that feeling since, at least not that intense.


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## gordon 2 (May 5, 2005)

*Euphoria.*

David, not to dismiss by any means your awakening, as you rightly think that your euphoria was in fact of the Holy Spirit or by the Holy Spirit filled? I do not doubt this, but I have had similar experience, yet I was not thinking of Jesus at the time. ??? I was studying all religions but especially Moses at the time??? At that time Jesus was down the road some. Is it possible to be visited by the Holy Spirit and not be a christian ?

It seems to me that the event you talk about is not limited to Christians. Other beliefs have their euphoric, light seeing, events in which they earnestly hope the faithful will achieve in order to connect with the Devine. I am thinking of Zen religion as a good example and other budist sects. Also, I believe that this event exists to some muslim diciplines or has existed.

Also,  current science on congnition is now considering how the physical connections of the  intelectual and emotional in our nervous system interact. For example you are more emotionally connected to your biological father than with me. Yet some individuals have more, some less pronounced aspects of this duality of relationship.  I do not doubt you are Spirit filled, but what do you think, can other poeple of other faiths be Spirit filled as well?


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## labman (May 5, 2005)

Doesn't the Bible say it's better to speak one word of a known toungue then 10,000 of an unknown toungue. I have never speaken in toungues and don't think I ever will as long as my english is understandable. I was saved at the age of 9 and have been in church ever since I even attended a assy of god for a while but don't se the need for toungues now. I fel that if god wants me to witness to a foriegner then he will let me speak to where that person can understand me and me him and that would be the only way I see it would be needed in todays times. Good thread though guys we learn a lot of different views about the bible and different beliefs.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 5, 2005)

Gordon,

I heard a sermon once, don’t remember who or when.  Anyway, the sermon, or part of it, delineated the difference between being filled by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit coming upon someone.  Probably the best example is the Old Testament; the way I heard it explained is that the Spirit came upon folks before the time of Christ.  People were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit until after the time of Christ (yet, the Holy Spirit still came upon people during this time as well).  I believe God tries, through the Holy Spirit, to influence every one of us in some manner.  But unless one is saved, he /she cannot be indewelt by the Holy Spirit.

Now, I don’t try to get into scientific theories in trying to explain God or how He works.  I believe that it is an effort in futility as He defies science and is not held to the limits of time and space as we are.  Science cannot explain God or His power.

Now, if people of other religions have obtained some path to God, then Jesus Christ is a liar.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 5, 2005)

Labman,

Paul spoke those words in 1 Cor.  (in chapt 12 I believe). He said that he would rather speak 5 words of understanding than a thousand words in a tongue because it is more beneficial for teaching.  That's not the exact words but I believe it is the gist of what he said.


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## blindhog (May 5, 2005)

David Mills said:
			
		

> I agree, but I believe that there are 2 separate circumstances when folks speak in tongues.  There is the cricumstance where someone prays in tongues and that is the "gift" part.  Then there is the circumstance in what I believe some folks refer to as Holy Spirit baptism.
> 
> In 1 Cor 12:13a, Paul talks about all gifts as coming from baptism in the Holy Spirit:
> "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"
> ...



Actually 1Cor 12:13 is a confirming scripture to 1Peter 3:21 for the moment of baptism being the moment you are saved.

The gifts are distributed as He wills it (the Holy Spirit), and not everyone gets the same or all of the gifts (tongues included).
Read 1Cor chapter 12 and you will see this.

There are no subsequent baptisms of the Holy Spirit after the salvation moment.
Eph 4;5......"One lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM."

Tongues are scripturally never stated as THE evidence of this baptism.

The scriptural teaching on tongues needs its own thread!

Experience is NOT to be relied upon for doctrine....but scripture alone!


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## Madsnooker (May 5, 2005)

Labman, you need to take what Paul wrote in context.

Which is basically,

I thank God that I "speak in tongues" privately more than any of the rest of you. But in PUBLIC worship I would rather speak five words that people can understand and be helped by, than ten thousand words while "speaking in tongues" in an unknown language.

It is improtant to realize he is speaking to the Corinthian church about proper public worship, not if tongues is for the believer or not. This is very clear in 1st Corinthians 14:18-28 and then summed up in the last 2 verses of chapter 14 which says, "So, my fellow believers, long to be prophets so that you can preach God's message plainly; and never say it is wrong to "speak in tongues"; however, be sure that everything is done properly in a good and orderly way.   

Don't know if this clears anything up but just quoting what scripture say's.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (May 5, 2005)

> Actually 1Cor 12:13 is a confirming scripture to 1Peter 3:21 for the moment of baptism being the moment you are saved.




*YES!!!!*   The entire 12 chapter explains that gifts are the result of this baptism.  Finally, someone stated what I have been soliciting all day.

The physical baptism by water comes after the Spirit baptism.


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## doublelungdriller (May 26, 2009)

blindhog said:


> When do you think it happens?



at the time when you admit you are a lost sinner, believe jesus christ died for your sins and rose again. you are saved!!!

therefor that's when the holy spirit comes into you


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## crackerdave (May 26, 2009)

Ga-Spur said:


> Jesus was setting an example. Jesus wants us to acknowledge him before man ; that he may acknowledge us before
> GOD.



AMEN that!

That was God's #2 purpose for sending Jesus to live amongst His creation: To show us the way.He set examples that I can never duplicate 100%,nor can any of us humans.That brings us back to the #1 purpose!

Sorry - I went a little  too. Answering your question,I also believe we are baptised in the Holy Spirit the instant we truly allow Jesus and the Holy Spirit into our hearts and realize we can never run our lives as well as God can.It's a life-long growing process from then on - until we go Home.


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## doublelungdriller (May 26, 2009)

crackerdave said:


> amen that!
> 
> That was god's #2 purpose for sending jesus to live amongst his creation: To show us the way.he set examples that i can never duplicate 100%,nor can any of us humans.that brings us back to the #1 purpose!
> 
> Sorry - i went a little  Too. Answering your question,i also believe we are baptised in the holy spirit the instant we truly allow jesus and the holy spirit into our hearts and realize we can never run our lives as well as god can.it's a life-long growing process from then on - until we go home.




Amen!!!


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## messenger (May 26, 2009)

doublelungdriller said:


> at the time when you admit you are a lost sinner, believe jesus christ died for your sins and rose again. You are saved!!!
> 
> Therefor that's when the holy spirit comes into you



amen.


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## formula1 (May 29, 2009)

*Re:*

I know I'm jumping in at the end, but I just want to comment.  I am not telling you what to believe on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit vs. what I believe.  You decide!
This is my experience, but I believe it is reasonable.  No scripture will be provided, mostly because you have already covered them pretty well.  But I will provide more scriptural evidence if someone asks.

1) The Holy Spirit draws you to Christ and at that point the Spirit of God indwells the believer. No question about that!
2) For many believers (not all) in Acts, they experienced a different indwelling or Baptism of the Holy Spirit that was indeed evidenced with them speaking in other tongues, prophesy, and praising God. It is significant in that it was described as a separate experience, so it must have validity to the believer.  This in my view is not the gift of tongues or any other spiritual gift. This was a witness at Pentecost to the people of the day and is significant to us as a prayer language(per Pauls words) if we desire it.
3) And I think of it as a prayer language. Let me describe it this way.  Suppose I want to pray about something, yet I am not sure of God's will in the matter. A prayer language is a gift to you to pray as such. It, in my view, is really not meant for public consumption.
4) The danger of such a gift is the sensationalism and euphoric feeling that can go with it. Entire denominations have focused on this and in my opinion missed the point. It is for use as a prayer language if you desire it, but Christianity is about Christ and His message, not about feeling.  Keep focused on Christ!
5) I was saved at 15, baptised in the Spirit at 22 (49 now). so I believe in it's reality. Yet I also believe the right focus about it is important. Also, I cannot prove this with scripture, but I believe there are other evidences of Holy Spirit baptism besides tongues.

One more point and I'm done. My dear sweet Mom is a Bible believing Jesus loving prayer warrior at almost 80 right now. We've talked about this Holy Spirit baptism.  She sees in the scriptures, understands it, but yet she does not have any specific evidence of it...

Or does she...Hmm...
My mother does not get stranded anywhere. She goes in her car with one of the family driving now (used to be her driving). She's had all kinds of flat tire incidents and broken down cars, etc.  many in the middle of nowhere. And yet, everytime, someone comes along within minutes and helps her...everytime.  The last time was just a few months ago riding on I-16 with her grandson driving. Flat tire and the spare was flat, no cell phone would work, nothing they could do. Within minutes, a car pulls up, takes them to the nearest station, where they proceed to buy a tire.  The station only takes cash, but she doesn't have enough. The stranger pulls money from his pocket and pays for the tire, takes them back to the car and changes the tire for them.  Then he hurries on his way.  This type of covering happens to her over and over.

Question, Is your relationship with Christ so strong that God sends someone to take care of you before you even ask?

Now, you can say, the she is not baptised in the Holy Spirit if you want to.  Personally, I will never believe it.  She is as full as full can be, and the Power of God is her provider and Protector! Praise God!

I hope someone out there is helped by my perspective.


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