# Lab training/force fetch ?s



## sbrown (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a choc. fem. lab that I bought from a member on here,(Ilovelabs), don't mind saying cause she has been absolutely great. Very intelligent and a natural from the start at retreiving.  A little hyper but she is nonstop. She is just about to turn a year old and she has been progressing well seeing how I have not really been training her very aggressively. I decided I wanted to up the pace a little and devote more time to her training. She has been retreiving single bumpers well for awhile now in open terrain or heavy cover as long as she sees me throw it. I didn't really know how to direct her to "marks" or blind retreives or multiple bumpers. I bought some supplies at the Buckarama this weekend including a bumper launcher I guess you call it and some more bumpers as well as a DVD by Robert Wolters I thnk it was, called Water Dog second edition. That made me realize I needed to back up and work on a little more obedience like not just the sit command but staying there. We worked to day on that and the heel command a little more and she showed signs of improvement. She even worked multiple bumpers this evening and always went to the last mark first, not because I was directing her, that was just her doing it. I know I need to get to the point of controling where she goes. 

The launcher was a surprise...to me that is, that thing kicks worse than a .44 mag pistol. It came with no instructions so I hope I am doing it right? Seemed pretty simple. She was not gun shy at all,didn't even flinch from the shot. I didn't think she would.The problem though is that the thing shoots so fast and far that she doesn't see it at first and doesn't realize that I have shot something and I haven't worked with her enough yet on just sending her after something,especially after it has just been propelled 100 yards into 5ft tall kudzoo! Fourtunately I had put some duck scent on it and had showed it to her. When I walked her out there in the general area she caught scent of it and then went right to it which made me feel good, cause I sure wasn't finding it. Anyway, sorry for such a long post but in the DVD they showed a method called force fetch where the dog was taught to hold an object based on a pressure point release method. Basically he tied a loop around a foot which pinched toes until the dog oped his mouth, then he inserted a wooden dumbell and released pressure teaching the dog that was what would release his discomfort. Anyone have experience with this? Pros vs cons, or dogs that you own that have been trained this way. Is it really a neccesary part of training to get a good retreiving dog? The dog was certainly top notch but also exhibited some behavior like tail between his legs and like he was just scared when he was in those situations. Not saying it is wrong by any means, just trying to learn and get some more advice.


----------



## NGaHunter (Aug 5, 2008)

In my opinion, yes FF is required for a good retriever.  FF is more about the dog taking pressure.  I have never seen anyone use the toe pinch method, most use the ear pinch.  Not only does it teach the dog to retrieve anything you tell it too, it gets them to where they can handle pressure.  On getting the dog to see the bumper when launched, do you have a command to let him know to "watch" or "mark" something?


----------



## BOB_HARWELL (Aug 5, 2008)

Get the Evan Graham or Mike Lardy DVD on FF. Obedience must be solid before starting FF.
 Launcher- If your dog heels on your left side, hold the launcher backwards in your left hand, pinkie finger toward bumper. reach across body w/bumper on right side & fire, always wear a leather glove.

        BOB


----------



## sbrown (Aug 5, 2008)

On the FF, the trainer went to the ear pinch method later after the dog had learned the pupose. 
One the laucher, yea, I learned real quick to wear a leather glove.


----------



## 91xjgawes (Aug 6, 2008)

Wingmaster01 said:


> Since you are new to this game, I am going to recommend that you review the following website because it has the best " FREE" advise on the net in my opinion.  Nothing wrong with the others either and I have their information myself.
> 
> Go to www.dobbsdogs.com
> 
> ...



the last part about dont start pinching ears until they are bouncing off the wall with retrieving drive... how do you go bout this if the dog is not wanting to retrieve? how do you try to instill the drive? great information by the way!


----------



## Hairy Dawg (Aug 6, 2008)

91xjgawes said:


> the last part about dont start pinching ears until they are bouncing off the wall with retrieving drive... how do you go bout this if the dog is not wanting to retrieve? how do you try to instill the drive? great information by the way!



You have to begin by getting them very excited with whatever object you are throwing. Tease them with it and then throw it down a hallway or something similar so they have to come back by you after they pick it up. Some people start with a rolled up sock for very young pups, older pups can handle a paint roller or canvas bumper just fine. If the pup just sniffs the bumper and does not pick it up, try throwing a bird wing (duck, dove, pheasant, etc.), and after they are returning with the wing, transitioning to the bumper should be easy.


----------



## 91xjgawes (Aug 6, 2008)

Hairy Dawg said:


> You have to begin by getting them very excited with whatever object you are throwing. Tease them with it and then throw it down a hallway or something similar so they have to come back by you after they pick it up. Some people start with a rolled up sock for very young pups, older pups can handle a paint roller or canvas bumper just fine. If the pup just sniffs the bumper and does not pick it up, try throwing a bird wing (duck, dove, pheasant, etc.), and after they are returning with the wing, transitioning to the bumper should be easy.



i get what you are saying but i think the problem is he dont understand that i actually want him to go get it and bring it back, that may not make sense but that is how it seems to me...


----------



## TaylorF (Aug 6, 2008)

How old is your pup?


----------



## 91xjgawes (Aug 6, 2008)

TaylorF said:


> How old is your pup?



7 months


----------



## Hairy Dawg (Aug 7, 2008)

91xjgawes said:


> i get what you are saying but i think the problem is he dont understand that i actually want him to go get it and bring it back, that may not make sense but that is how it seems to me...



Is he refusing to pick it up or is he claiming the bumper for himself?

If he picks up the bumper and tries to keep it for himself, you can use a 30' check cord to enforce the "HERE" command by giving short snaps with the check cord. Don't give the command unless you can enforce it, or he will start to think of retrieving as a game of chase, or keep away. Another way to make one return would be to CC to "HERE", that is, if you are using an E-collar.

If he shows no interest in picking up the bumper, you need to bring out the prey drive in him by using a bird wing, or better yet, a clipped wing pigeon. 

Good luck.


----------



## Hairy Dawg (Aug 7, 2008)

You could trap some, or look in the Georgia market bulletin under poultry. Find someone close by that sells pigeons. For what you want, quail would work, they just wont hold up as long as a pigeon. You still need a long check cord (just a long rope tied to the collar) because if he catches the bird, the last thing on his mind is going to be bringing it back to you. 

Most important thing, is if he does retrieve the bird and you can get him back to you, PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE. Let everyone around you hear it. Praise will eventually be the motivating reward for retrieving and coming back to you.


----------



## sbrown (Aug 8, 2008)

Wingmaster...thanks for the advice. As for my dog,I got lucky with her I guess and I like to think I maybe helped a little.I just don't want to mess her up cause I think she has good potential, though I have never trained a lab and I am not a trainer at all. Since the first day we got her she  had a strong retreiving drive, the first day she found her toys on our back deck on her own without me throwing them and brought one to me, I threw it about 5 ft and she brung it back line 7 or 8 times, my wife was shocked that it came so natural,so was I. She is almost a year old now and that is all she wants to do is retreive something. She has a decent sized yard to stay in, but form the moment Ilet her out she is looking to me to let her go get something, sometimes I'll just throw the hat from my head so she will be happy. The other evening I had picked some corn from the garden and after shucking it I threw the husks out. She went and fetched one and brought it to me so I said what the heck, I sent her after about 6 more just to see if she would go get them. I have heard of mutiple bumpers but never mutiple corn husks! 
I worked her the other evening on some marking drills and mutiple bumpers,she did pretty good. I need to figure out how to better direct her. I have a pheasant wing now that I am going to introduce her to and see how she does with that.


----------

