# How do YOU believe in Christ?



## Day trip (Aug 7, 2014)

If one where to go out and spiritually and physically "believe in Christ",  what actions would you be taking?  How would your mindset be altered? I would just like some of your ideas.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 7, 2014)

I give up trying to be good enough, and accept God's grace .


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## hobbs27 (Aug 7, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I give up trying to be good enough, and accept God's grace .



Amen! Me too!


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## Day trip (Aug 7, 2014)

Excuse the way this sounds, but does that mean you do nothing?  Maybe it's just me, but as I study the bible, I discover myself in almost every "don't do this" statement.  I know what it means to have the flesh looking after its own interest and the soul sitting back quietly, waiting to be discovered.  If I were to let God's grace save me, I would be a pretty awful person here on earth.   (Even more so than now).   As I study the Gospels, I discover what my soul already knows.  Once I understand something, it makes so much sense that I can't believe I couldn't see it before.  As I apply that message to my life, conflicts and worries cease to exist.  The more I understand and the more I apply that understanding, the less the world can affect me.  I know peace, patience, love.  I'm not jealous, spiteful or angry.  

Is there not a real value to Christ's message beyond just accepting grace?


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## hobbs27 (Aug 7, 2014)

Day trip, prayer, worship, putting on the whole armour of God---or surrendering to His will. You will change, but the change comes from God, there's nothing you consciously do, but over time you will look back at the things you use to do, the things you use to think, and you notice from God's grace you are a new person .

Putting the flesh to death daily by prayer first thing in the morning. There's some thing I suppose you do, but it's really just in love for the Lord.

Make any sense? I hope so cause I have a hard time explaining all I have experienced, and I'm no where near a perfect person but God has brought me a long way ...It was all His doing.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

Hobbs, this is the exact response that I was hoping for and No, I certainly do not understand, not yet.  Let me explain before I ask more.  I know a lot of people, good "Christian" folks in my community, middle aged business owners and professionals (my demographic) who laugh about going to church every Sunday with hang overs from heavy drinking on Saturday night, who chase the almighty dollar to build up treasures on earth and who treat each other outwardly with respect but inwardly with backstabbing and gossiping.  These people also claim the grace of God has saved them.  They claim God's grace yet don't follow the ideas of humility, love of neighbors, respect for all mankind, not being a judge of mankind, discipline or sacrifice.

Now I understand that God has given us everything so that we can not claim or be proud of anything except God's grace.  However, that does not absolve us from doing anything.  We can make decisions.  Decisions on how to act, how to treat others and prioritize what is important in our lives.  We can also choose to ignore Christ's example and claim salvation because the work has already been done and now we can just sit back and enjoy the ride.  That doesn't sound right to me.  

What my intuition has always told me was that by worshiping God we immulate and imitate him.   As we rediscover the principles of Christianity that are present in the hearts of all men, we must take an active role in nurturing those principles so that the will of the flesh intertwines with the will of the soul and we practice acting as God acts so that then his grace opens our minds and allows this new spirit we are pretending to be, to become who we really are.  

It's like something I've said before, I can "believe" that the weatherman exists but if I don't put on a coat when he says it will be cold or take an umbrella when he says its going to rain, what benefit is it to just believe?  To me, believing in Christ is accepting his teaching so that you may change and become the person who was there deep inside hidden under all of the desires of the flesh.  That is a series of active choices.  That is not just robots going on saying we are saved because of grace, living the same as before.  

What responsibilities do we have in discovering and living according to Christ's example?  I believe that a part of Grace is the understanding and accepting of these principles but that we must do our part also.  Thanks for helping me with this.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 8, 2014)

Hello Day Trip, I think we each have a different answer at different points of our journey. I have simplified mine in recent years. Summed it up, you might say. I have taken me out of the equation and rely completely on "his work in me" rather than my own work  of trying to be Christlike.


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## mark-7mag (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Hobbs, this is the exact response that I was hoping for and No, I certainly do not understand, not yet.  Let me explain before I ask more.  I know a lot of people, good "Christian" folks in my community, middle aged business owners and professionals (my demographic) who laugh about going to church every Sunday with hang overs from heavy drinking on Saturday night, who chase the almighty dollar to build up treasures on earth and who treat each other outwardly with respect but inwardly with backstabbing and gossiping.  These people also claim the grace of God has saved them.  They claim God's grace yet don't follow the ideas of humility, love of neighbors, respect for all mankind, not being a judge of mankind, discipline or sacrifice.
> 
> Now I understand that God has given us everything so that we can not claim or be proud of anything except God's grace.  However, that does not absolve us from doing anything.  We can make decisions.  Decisions on how to act, how to treat others and prioritize what is important in our lives.  We can also choose to ignore Christ's example and claim salvation because the work has already been done and now we can just sit back and enjoy the ride.  That doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> ...



Well said !


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## formula1 (Aug 8, 2014)

*Re:*

It is by grace you have been saved through faith.  It is not of yourself, so you cannot boast of your effort.  I once heard that somewhere!

Then God goes about renewing the mind and conforming it to the mind of Christ.  But He can't just do that!   You need to retrain your mind and live a different purpose that is not your own.  You do this I think in three ways: 

1) By prayer, you get up each day and ask the Father to make His desires your desire.   Submit yourself to the changing work of the Holy Spirit.  As Paul said, 'I die daily'.

2) By studying God's Word to understand Him. To find His desires for you, to live as Jesus lived, to love like Jesus loved, to serve like Jesus serves. To put off the old character and put on Christ, remaining humble knowing that whatever you improve on in your life, even that is by His grace.  So be grateful!  To know Him is to seek Him!  Become who you must become, a disciple of Christ.

3) Make disciples! Fellowship with you local body of believers, not because you need to, but you are needed! There are a wealth of hurting people who walk right into our churches every week who need love, compassion and discipleship.   It's not the pastor's responsibility to do all of it, it's yours. In short, they need what you have!

I hope this helps.  I see those people all the time you (Day Trip) mention, the ones where Faith in Christ sounds good as long as you don't have to change who you are.  Don't emulate the bad example, but imitate Christ!  While you're at it, pray for those who don't to live for Christ as well.

God bless!


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Day Trip, I think we each have a different answer at different points of our journey. I have simplified mine in recent years. Summed it up, you might say. I have taken me out of the equation and rely completely on "his work in me" rather than my own work  of trying to be Christlike.



I believe you have an excellent point here.  Different parts of the journey affect how one believes in Christ.  The infant Christian, receiving only milk and baby food has this notion of God, similar to Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.  A very nice thing but really doesn't make much sense at all.  So they follow rules and do what they should most of the time.  It is like the Jewish community before Christ, following the Law.  But by following the Law we know we are not saved.  The Law makes us aware of sin and tells us to avoid sin but in itself, it doesn't change the person.  If this infant like Christian is to grow up in Christ, something must happen. 

This is where grace is ever so important.  God calls us.  Not with trumpets and horns, announcing its time to grow up. Instead with the most subtle intuition.  A knowing that things are not as they should be.  In other words, we suffer.  This suffering is God's call to repent.  The suffering can be a simple as stress over bills, it can be anger over how someone treated you, it can be that little "snarkiness" as my kids call it, because your grumpy and things are not as you want.  This kind of suffering is like sticking your hand in a fire.  Whatever the source of suffering, it is a signal that you cannot continue to do what it is your doing and know peace.  So take that suffering, exam it, find your fault in it and correct it.  If bills are too high, your living outside of your means.  Either stop buying what you can't afford or get a job that pays more.  Suffering is gone.  If you are angry because someone was mean to you, examine your role in this.  Did you speak rudely or sarcastically to them?  Did you insult them in a passive aggressive manner?  Learn to speak to people, not at them.  Learn to absorb insults and return love.  Know that if you are blameless, you are untouchable so the anger is gone. The suffering is gone.  If you stick your hand in the fire, stop sticking your hand in the fire.  The suffering is gone.  

This second stage, the adolescents of a Christian is where we must make conscience effort to rediscover God's laws of the soul.  This takes effort.  This is where we cannot passively sit back and accept God's grace.  We need to actively apply Christ's teaching to every situation in our lives.  We have been called, we are aware of something bigger and better, now our duties as Christians is to discover what that means.  Not going on with life because we are "saved by the blood of the cross".  The door has been unlocked and is now open but we must take the narrow path, the hard path into God's grace.  We practice.  We practice our faith until it becomes second nature.  

Then something beautiful happens.  At some unidentifiable time, at some unknown point, we are acting and thinking and doing what God commands.  It's not a finish line that we simply announce "I accept Jesus as my saviour". It's not like bandits who have crossed the border into old Mexico.  It's a conscience effort to abide by God's laws until we no longer need to try.  We no longer need to think about following the old Law because it is assumed in your accepting Christ that of course we follow the old laws but so much more.  

That is when you reach your Christian adulthood.  Now you can allow the grace of God to guide your actions because it is instinctive, it is natural.  You no longer do good because you should but because you are good.  It takes a journey. 

I am just concerned that some believe that by accepting Christ in the infantile state, they believe that nothing else must be done.  How much of this maturation process is on God's grace and how much is on mankind's shoulders, I do not know.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

Excellent, well said formula1.  Thank you


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Luke 13:1-5
13 There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? 3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? 5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

It appears more about repenting than the amount of sin we commit. What was Jesus commanding the others who lived in Jerusalem to repent of?

Romans 6:1-2
Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Acts 3:19

New International Version
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

New Living Translation
Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.

English Standard Version
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So change the way you think and act, and turn [to God] to have your sins removed.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

Repent with intent.  We can't be perfect or even close and we don't have to be.  Unless I'm mistaken, we are saying the same thing, I'm just using more words. Right?  

Two men working in the field, one will be taken and one will be left.  I'm not sure if you want to be taken or left behind but it's interesting that two people doing the exact same thing recieve different fates.  I think it is because of intent.  The one repents and tries to imitate Christ while the other is living the same life, the same sins but lacks the intent.  He fails to repent and therefore is lost.  

This all says to me that we do have a responsibility.  We do have work to do (repent and following Christs example) but it's not the "works" that matter but the faith.  Works are included in faith just as the Law is included in believing in Christ.  It's just that works and the Law alone are not enough.  

Honest effort to follow The Lord.  Meaning every thought and every action gives us a chance to live for Christ or to live for the flesh.  When we believe in Christ intent and effort are required.  Claims of salvation are just noisy gongs without intent and effort.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Repent with intent.  We can't be perfect or even close and we don't have to be.  Unless I'm mistaken, we are saying the same thing, I'm just using more words. Right?
> 
> Two men working in the field, one will be taken and one will be left.  I'm not sure if you want to be taken or left behind but it's interesting that two people doing the exact same thing recieve different fates.  I think it is because of intent.  The one repents and tries to imitate Christ while the other is living the same life, the same sins but lacks the intent.  He fails to repent and therefore is lost.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure I don't see it the way you do. If I could gain salvation by quitting sin, I wouldn't have  needed a Saviour. I needed someone to take the place of my inability to quit sinning.  
The whole Old Testament is a testament to people who couldn't quit sinning. A whole world of people who needed a Messiah. It was even foretold. Even predicted.  
I need to repent from believing I can save myself by righteous living into believing Jesus became the Redeemer of my sins.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

And that is exactly what I can't understand.  Are you saying we do nothing? Just believe in the most literal sense and go on with your life?  I don't see how you can believe and then not follow.  Then if you do believe and follow Christ example, aren't you making a conscience decision to follow him?  Even if you are lead by grace. Like the weatherman example in #6.  

Maybe it's me.  What I want is self serving.  If I only believed then I wouldn't change my mindset and despite believing I wouldn't be a very good person.  If I believe in him and emulate him, then I start to see the promise of the "peace I give you, not as the world gives it".


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> And that is exactly what I can't understand.  Are you saying we do nothing? Just believe in the most literal sense and go on with your life?  I don't see how you can believe and then not follow.  Then if you do believe and follow Christ example, aren't you making a conscience decision to follow him?  Even if you are lead by grace. Like the weatherman example in #6.
> 
> Maybe it's me.  What I want is self serving.  If I only believed then I wouldn't change my mindset and despite believing I wouldn't be a very good person.  If I believe in him and emulate him, then I start to see the promise of the "peace I give you, not as the world gives it".



Maybe we are talking about two different believings and two different repentings. One is believing Jesus died for your sins and the repentance that you can save yourself by living a certain way to believing you can't and thus need Jesus. This type of believing and repenting is needed for salvation. 
The other type would be believing in the teachings of Jesus such as helping and loving others. The other repentance would be to try and quit sinning which in itself would be required to help and love others to include loving God.
This last believing & repenting type I can relate to the weatherman story. This type follows the other type of believing and repenting and does require the help of God.
It should follow salvation. We should help others. We should love God & others.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

That makes sense to me.  Thanks for the effort.


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## blood on the ground (Aug 8, 2014)

I didn't realize how much I needed to read something like this... I'm so glad I found this thread! Thank you Day Trip for asking the question! And thanks to all of you that responded!


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> That makes sense to me.  Thanks for the effort.



If you look back at my old threads you will see that I was on a religious rollercoaster up until about a year ago. Then I finally repented.
I still read certain passages that make me challenge my repentance including verses about the two men working in the field.
I don't have all the answers about the Church people acting bad only knowing that lust and hatred are as bad as adultery & murder in the eyes of God. I'm just worried about the plank in my eye at this point in my life.

The important part is:
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord .


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## centerpin fan (Aug 8, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> If you look back at my old threads you will see that I was on a religious rollercoaster up until about a year ago.



What do you mean "was"?


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> What do you mean "was"?



If you have lived most of your life believing you must live a certain way to gain everlasting life, maybe it's hard to repent of this overnight.
It's kinda like the quit smoking commercial where they say "hey, you didn't start overnight, what makes you think you can quit overnight."

My new religious rollercoaster is not about salvation but freewill vs predestination.


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## centerpin fan (Aug 8, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> My new religious rollercoaster is not about salvation but freewill vs predestination.



Good.  I'd hate to see you bored.


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## Day trip (Aug 8, 2014)

I had two purposes in asking the question here.  First, I was hoping someone could explain the "accepting Jesus as my saviour" and done mentality that I see around me a lot.  Wait, that was "snarky". I hoped to understand my neighbors.  Second I just wanted the inspiration.  I don't think there is a wrong answer if it is sincere and honest.  When we believe in  Christ, it isn't to become a clone of him.  It is to understand his principles and understand what he has accomplished for us while we bring our own gifts to the Body which have been given to us by the Holy Spirit.

Art, I would like to hear more about repentance if you have the time.  That concept is sort of new to me.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> I had two purposes in asking the question here.  First, I was hoping someone could explain the "accepting Jesus as my saviour" and done mentality that I see around me a lot.  Wait, that was "snarky". I hoped to understand my neighbors.  Second I just wanted the inspiration.  I don't think there is a wrong answer if it is sincere and honest.  When we believe in  Christ, it isn't to become a clone of him.  It is to understand his principles and understand what he has accomplished for us while we bring our own gifts to the Body which have been given to us by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> Art, I would like to hear more about repentance if you have the time.  That concept is sort of new to me.



Read through the thread about the Baptism of Repentance. I started it to learn if the way John baptised people had a different meaning than how Jesus instructed or provided. I don't believe there was a difference. In this thread we talked of repentance or change of mind from believing one could save themselves to believing they couldn't and thus needed Jesus for salvation. This is the will of God.
From that we discussed the process or chain of events that happen for salvation; conversion, repentance, believing, etc. Each of us having different views on the correct order and what is God's hand in achieving this order.
From that I got to thinking about freewill & predestination and we discussed that briefly before processing back to repentance. 

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=810406

I can't explain the "done mentality" or "Sunday only Christian" as one would think knowing Jesus as their Savior they would like to gain as much knowledge as possible. 
One might go overboard trying to figure it all out and this might be wrong as in my case.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 8, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Hobbs, this is the exact response that I was hoping for and No, I certainly do not understand, not yet.  Let me explain before I ask more.  I know a lot of people, good "Christian" folks in my community, middle aged business owners and professionals (my demographic) who laugh about going to church every Sunday with hang overs from heavy drinking on Saturday night, who chase the almighty dollar to build up treasures on earth and who treat each other outwardly with respect but inwardly with backstabbing and gossiping.  These people also claim the grace of God has saved them.  They claim God's grace yet don't follow the ideas of humility, love of neighbors, respect for all mankind, not being a judge of mankind, discipline or sacrifice.



 Theres a lot of churches for people like this..unfortunately..I know people like this myself, they do not like spiritual preaching, they run from the spirit if they feel it..they are going to a social club not a house of worship{ now these are the people I know} many chrches today preach prosperity, and not spiritual prosperity. 



Day trip said:


> Now I understand that God has given us everything so that we can not claim or be proud of anything except God's grace.  However, that does not absolve us from doing anything.  We can make decisions.  Decisions on how to act, how to treat others and prioritize what is important in our lives.  We can also choose to ignore Christ's example and claim salvation because the work has already been done and now we can just sit back and enjoy the ride.  That doesn't sound right to me.


 
 Personal experience here:  I entered into a covenant of grace with our Lord in 1984. I was 12 at the time. I lived a good changed life for 5 years and then started straying a little, then a little more, then a lot more. The more I denied Gods calling me back and the more I thought I could handle this world alone the more trouble I got into. I married a woman that God did not put me with, I took directions of my own expecting God to follow.  The short of this long story is God took His protection away from me and everything I had done fell like a house of cards. I lost my health, my house, my wife, and was facing losing my kids.  I finally cried out to the Lord that had been there for me the whole time. After a few years re-establishing the relationship, He gave me my health, a wife, my kids with one more to boot, a house, and a good job. I owe nothing- I own nothing, but the possessions God has given me to care for on this side of eternity. It all belongs to Him.

 I have learned decisions are to be made with Gods input, because without Him I just make a mess of things--however I believe theres folks that can make good decisions without God...because He does not know them.




Day trip said:


> What my intuition has always told me was that by worshiping God we immulate and imitate him.   As we rediscover the principles of Christianity that are present in the hearts of all men, we must take an active role in nurturing those principles so that the will of the flesh intertwines with the will of the soul and we practice acting as God acts so that then his grace opens our minds and allows this new spirit we are pretending to be, to become who we really are.



 I think if we are trying to be God-like then we are not. When we are loving God we are like God, and not concerned with the trying, or concerned with how others view us, it comes naturally to a true Christian...an imposter would be more concerned with how they are perceived.



Day trip said:


> It's like something I've said before, I can "believe" that the weatherman exists but if I don't put on a coat when he says it will be cold or take an umbrella when he says its going to rain, what benefit is it to just believe?  To me, believing in Christ is accepting his teaching so that you may change and become the person who was there deep inside hidden under all of the desires of the flesh.  That is a series of active choices.  That is not just robots going on saying we are saved because of grace, living the same as before.
> 
> What responsibilities do we have in discovering and living according to Christ's example?  I believe that a part of Grace is the understanding and accepting of these principles but that we must do our part also.  Thanks for helping me with this.



Our part is obedience to our Lord. When we are disobedient we will take a whipping, or atleast I did, and I realized exactly where it was coming from and it was my fault.

 Ive noticed we all have a vex of some sort. Some Christians have a problem with lust, some greed, some anger, some gluttony. Its real easy to see our brethrens vex, and thank God we are not like them. The hard part is realizing our own and understanding that sin is sin. Christs blood covers it all, and since Christianity is a personal relationship , sometimes maybe we dont understand wholly what our brethren is going through. Its our job to lift them up in their good deeds, not knock them down on their bad.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

Hobbs, very good lesson. I'll add from Corinthians where Paul tells the Church members they were as bad as ____ and provides a list. Then he gives them some great news:

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

A tiny warning from Romans 2:1
You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things.

This and other lessons in the Bible are often missed because readers don't read all of the verses in the lessons. They may also miss who the lesson is designed for and who it applies to.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 8, 2014)

And the last from me tonight is from Paul to his helper Timothy:

even though I used to blaspheme the name of Christ. In my insolence, I persecuted his people. But God had mercy on me because I did it in ignorance and unbelief.
Oh, how generous and gracious our Lord was! He filled me with the faith and love that come from Christ Jesus.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

In closing "such were some of us, but we were washed."


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## Day trip (Aug 9, 2014)

Hobbs, I don't think I have been very clear.  I say that because when I look at how you've interpreted my posts, I see your point.  However your point is quite similar to mine, only described differently.  Let me try again. 

First, I am not judging anyone.  Neither am I being so politically correct as to not call it as I see it and then ask for help in interpreting what I see.  Art has helped me there.   Instead of people having a two hour conversation every time they mention Jesus, they say that they have accepted Jesus as their saviour.  Which I now understand condenses a tremendous amount of information in one statement.  But for people being in different maturity stages of their faith, this statement is sometimes used a little loosely with less meaning.  But I won't think less of anyone because their actions and their words don't align.  We all know we aren't perfect and we shouldn't judge so lets leave that alone.  

Concerning this statement you made earlier (I don't know how to quote) 
"I think if we are trying to be God-like then we are not. When we are loving God we are like God, and not concerned with the trying, or concerned with how others view us, it comes naturally to a true Christian...an imposter would be more concerned with how they are perceived."

I am not talking about trying to be God like in the sense of achieving greatness and glorifying ourselves.  If I knew how to post a picture, I have the perfect example if what I mean.  Let me describe it, a man is pushing his lawnmower while cutting grass in the yard.  Ten feet behind him is a 3 year old child pushing his toy lawnmower behind daddy.  That is how we imitate Christ.  In loving adoration.  The child does it to please his father and because he loves his father, not to make himself his father or to become his father.  This has nothing to do with how we are perceived by others.   This has nothing to do with personal glory.  It is about honoring the father.  In the process of living as an imitation  of the Father, we come to understand more about him and grow to love and honor him even more.  We also understand that if we obey the teaching of Jesus we are pleasing to him.   Just as a child in the yard imitating his father cutting the grass.  

I think the misunderstanding may be in that we are describing different stages of the process.  You seem to be talking more about the finished product while I'm discussing the maturation process, how we can come ever closer to that finished product.  You said "when we are loving God, we are like God".  Yes!  That is what I mean but for my simple mind, that is too vague.  That is the point of this entire forum.  I want to describe how I love God in real life terms.  I want to hear how others love God in real life terms, not vague generalities.  Does that make more sense?


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## Day trip (Aug 9, 2014)

blood on the ground said:


> I didn't realize how much I needed to read something like this... I'm so glad I found this thread! Thank you Day Trip for asking the question! And thanks to all of you that responded!



Thank you, and how do you "believe in Christ?" I would love to hear more stories of people's personal relationship with God.


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## Day trip (Aug 9, 2014)

I figured out how to quote!  By the way Hobbs, that was a beautiful summary of your life experiences with Christ.  I'm very happy you are on the right track now.  By the way, we are the same age.

I don't think God ever took his protection away from you,  I don't think he ever abandoned you.  I think he lovingly allowed you to suffer so that you could realize that what you were doing simply wouldn't work.  Well His plan worked!  You learned from your suffering and you came back to him.  In other words, you stopped putting your hand in the fire.


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## jmartin7654 (Aug 9, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Hobbs, this is the exact response that I was hoping for and No, I certainly do not understand, not yet.  Let me explain before I ask more.  I know a lot of people, good "Christian" folks in my community, middle aged business owners and professionals (my demographic) who laugh about going to church every Sunday with hang overs from heavy drinking on Saturday night, who chase the almighty dollar to build up treasures on earth and who treat each other outwardly with respect but inwardly with backstabbing and gossiping.  These people also claim the grace of God has saved them.  They claim God's grace yet don't follow the ideas of humility, love of neighbors, respect for all mankind, not being a judge of mankind, discipline or sacrifice.
> 
> Now I understand that God has given us everything so that we can not claim or be proud of anything except God's grace.  However, that does not absolve us from doing anything.  We can make decisions.  Decisions on how to act, how to treat others and prioritize what is important in our lives.  We can also choose to ignore Christ's example and claim salvation because the work has already been done and now we can just sit back and enjoy the ride.  That doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> ...




    First of all, this is a great thread, I've really enjoyed it. Personally, I believe that the people you are speaking of, the ones who don't live by God's Word Monday through Saturday, but put themselves in the church pews on Sunday morning, are the hypocrites that Jesus speaks of. These are the ones who are just trying to make an image of themselves. I'm not judging them, they may be Christians. I don't know, it's just my opinion.

    Many people say that a marriage is a 50/50 relationship. Imagine you're wanting to build a championship football team. How many rings would you get if all your players gave 50%. Better yet, how many marriages today survive a spouse only giving 50%. Now think of this relationship with Jesus. We know Jesus gives His 100% to us, what are we contributing to our relationship with Him?

    Most of my life I would have been considered an atheist. It wasn't until my mid twenties that I made the decision to follow Christ. Going into it with no previous knowledge or any guidance, left me with a lot of questions, and depending on who I asked, I got a different answer. I visited many churches of different denominations and they all had different views. I had to open the book and find the answers myself.

     My beliefs are of my own. There is no particular denomination that they line up to in the Christian Faith. I have developed these from years of studying the King James Bible and experiencing God's work through me and many others around me. I believe Christianity is really somewhat of a process. 

    First, I believe that you must make a decision to follow Christ. I don't believe this alone "saves" you, but you have to make this choice. It's almost like step 1, knowing you need help. Then you must be baptized. This is when you will accept the Holy Ghost. During these first two steps, you may or may not "feel" different.

    Next will be the time to become "Born Again". This is really when everything changes. Not all are in the spot of their journey where they've experienced this. Some may think they have because they said the initial prayer, but that's not always the case. I think most people experience this when they are at their lowest point in life. When there is nothing left and no where else to turn. They HAVE to put every ounce of faith they have in God's Word. The most traumatic times of their lives. To me, it is when you have nothing left and you give everything to God. You let Him carry you through your circumstance. This is when God delivers His promise to you. He shows you all you need to see, almost like He has just proven Himself to you. This is when you really make your decision to follow Christ. In a way, it's almost like, you've done all your homework and studying, now it's time for the final exam.

    Once you are born again, you're not the same person. Now you have an understanding you never had before and an overwhelming peace comes over you. There is no doubt about God's grace and you now have the fear of God that the Bible speaks of. It is a healthy and necessary fear. You won't act the same as you might have before, because your faith is now rock solid. You know in your heart, every decision you make, has consequences. It changes your life. You now put God first in everything and you know that you'd never want to disappoint Him. You've been "Born Again". It's like you're starting all over,but this time with a clean slate and a new purpose.

     Back to my original point, I don't know how you could experience any of this and then turn your back on Him and live your life in ways that don't align with His Word. Think of how many people He condemns in the New Testament for greed alone. Then think of how many He saves and how those people change forever.

    Just my thoughts on the matter. Hopefully, I've been able to put these thoughts into words that make sense.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2014)

How a Christian acts has to be for the right reason like the little boy walking behind his Dad with the lawnmower. Now if he was pushing that toy lawnmower to show the neighbor kids what a nice person he was by following his dad, it would be for his own pride. 
If a Christian helped feed and cloth a helpless family to show the Church crowd what a good person he was would be wrong. If one did it to feed & clothe Jesus by doing it to others, it would be the right reason.
Maybe not sinning would need to be done for the right reason.


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## Day trip (Aug 9, 2014)

Jmartin7654, thank you for sharing, many of your comments allow me to understand my own thoughts better.  

I have this concept in my head, imagine this(and I've said this before so forgive me for repeating) : a common object is held up in the middle if a room of people and you ask each one to describe that object from only their point of view.  How many different descriptions of that object would you get?  Imagine a coke can.  Some would describe your typical red and white can with the logo on it, others would describe a silver circle( looking at the bottom), some would describe some variation if these.  Who is right and who is wrong?  We are all right if we are honestly describing what we sense.  Now imagine something vague, like the Kingdom of God.  Imagine the descriptions we get from all the points if view!  But really, the more points of view we get, the closer we get to truly understanding what it is and what it means.  This is not a thread meant to say someone is right or wrong but its intended to inspire everyone.  

Art, please don't take this the wrong way but are you often so cynical?  That little boy doesn't care about his neighbor seeing him.  He's 3 years old for goodness sake, he doesn't even know he has neighbors.  This is why we must become like a child.  With pure intentions and pure hearts.  Certainly people can do good for the wrong reason but they are still doing good.  Thats why we dont judge.  Like Abraham Lincoln said, if you only look for the bad in people, you will surely find it.  Avoiding sin is not the goal, it has nothing to do with this.  Of course we will sin.  The purpose of doing good deeds and learning to follow Christ's example is to try and please our Father who has given us everything.  Does it matter what we do? No!  Our doing good deeds is like a child buying a birthday present for his father.  The father gives him the money to buy it and if the father really wanted something, he would go buy it himself.  The gift doesn't benefit the father at all.  The intention is invaluable.  The fact that the child thought so much of his dad to go out and get him a gift, that is what melts the fathers heart.  

Dads, how many crappy gifts have you received on Fathers Day?  Do you care about another tie?  No way!  But don't you feel wonderful about the fact that your little child ran up to you with the present and was so excited for you to open it?  Not to gain credit with you, not to buy favor with you but because he loves you so much that he wants to do good for you.  That is the value of following Christ's examples and by doing good deeds.  Because you purely and innocently love him so much and are so thankful for his love that you just want to please him.


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## jmartin7654 (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks Daytrip. Hopefully I'm not coming off as saying wrong or right, or being offensive. That's not my intent and I do agree with your thoughts that everyone has a view. I guess I thought something else was being asked from the original quote I was responding to- Are people who act in this manner a Christian and How do I believe in God? The only objection I have about people having a point of view, and the point I was trying to back up, was for people to open up their Bible and read. You are right that people need to give an honest viewpoint, but even an uneducated viewpoint can still be an honest viewpoint, not necessarily correct, but it could be honest.  

Have you ever been in a conversation, maybe on politics? Well actually, let's use the gun laws since this is GON. You're probably informed on this topic and you know what you're talking about. Now say someone comes into the conversation and starts putting in their two cents, yet they haven't read the law and aren't familiar with any of the key issues that are in debate across the state. They are looking to influence their audience yet they are lacking knowledge. They have a point of view on the gun law. Is their viewpoint one that others should follow?  

With any topic, as long as people will inform themselves with the proper knowledge, their perspectives are crucial for overall success; however bad information is worse than no information at all. You could have your sights set on heaven but end up somewhere else. In today's world, the devil is running on cruise control. Great, great  people, with really good intent don't realize that they're only making his job easier and easier. If someone thinks the only time you need to give to God is on Sunday mornings, I'd rather those people sit idle than to steer the ship in the wrong direction.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Art, please don't take this the wrong way but are you often so cynical?  That little boy doesn't care about his neighbor seeing him.  He's 3 years old for goodness sake, he doesn't even know he has neighbors.  This is why we must become like a child.  With pure intentions and pure hearts.  Certainly people can do good for the wrong reason but they are still doing good.  Thats why we dont judge.  Like Abraham Lincoln said, if you only look for the bad in people, you will surely find it.  Avoiding sin is not the goal, it has nothing to do with this.  Of course we will sin.  The purpose of doing good deeds and learning to follow Christ's example is to try and please our Father who has given us everything.  Does it matter what we do? No!  Our doing good deeds is like a child buying a birthday present for his father.  The father gives him the money to buy it and if the father really wanted something, he would go buy it himself.  The gift doesn't benefit the father at all.  The intention is invaluable.  The fact that the child thought so much of his dad to go out and get him a gift, that is what melts the fathers heart.



Not taken the wrong way, and I'm not usually  cynical, just an example Jesus taught of the Pharisees & Sadducee who were doing the right things for the wrong reason. 
I would give the individual the benefit of the doubt and leave the judging up to God. He knows what's in our hearts as to why we are doing what we do.


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