# TBG  StateChampionship



## PAPALAPIN (Feb 26, 2009)

CULLODEN, GA MAR 13, 14, 15, 2009

For your GPS or MapQuest

2002 City of Refuge Road
Culloden, GA

Times and events will be posted here.

If you had a good time at the Central Zone shoot...you'll have a ball at the State Championship.

3-D Course, Aerial shooting, Coon Shoot, Long range shooting, possible an American or York Round, and other miscellaneous fun events.

We will have a trading blanket if you have anything you want to sell or trade. Please tag your items with your name and asking price.

Big Jim's (formally Sipsy River) will be there and possible other vendors. There will be a food truck on location.

Some will be camping out on Friday and Saturday nights.

Come join the fun. Bring friends and family.

I don't know of any hog hunts scheduled that weekend so we expect to see you pig stickers there.

Below is last years map to the same location.  Disregard the dates.


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## choctawlb (Feb 26, 2009)

If nothing happens to prevent it, I plan on coming up on the 13th, setting up my tent, and staying the whole weekend. Hate I missed the open shoot, but then work does pay the bills.  Look forward to meeting some of ya'll up at Culloden. Also there is a small privately owned little museum, about 5 to 10 miles from the shoot called "The Museum of the Southeastern Indian".
We stopped by there the other day and the owner has quite a collection of artifacts , points, hoes,adzes, pottery, gorgets, you name it. Hatchet Dan had to drag me out the other day after about 2 hours. Real nice stuff. Gonna have to drop back by there during the shoot.
Ken


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## dutchman (Feb 27, 2009)

Im planning on it!


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## Fatboy (Feb 27, 2009)

I read somewhere that it was going to cost $50 to shoot the state this year.Something about making you join the TBG just to be able to shoot it this time.I really don't like that very much.If that's the case I probably won't shoot it this year.It's the same reason I have never went to the TBOF state shoot.


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## PAPALAPIN (Feb 27, 2009)

I never heard that.

I know if you came to the Central zone shoot it cost $10 to shoot if you are a member or not.

If you joined the TBG on that day for $30.00, you shot free that day.

I think the State Championship is a $20 shoot.  If you join for $30.00 that day, I don't know if you would shoot free or not since it is the big shoot of the year.

I hope you will come. I hope you will join.  If not, have a nice day.


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## gregg dudley (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't think that the Georgia boys make you join their club to shoot and we have a proposal on the agenda for Friday's general TBOF meeting that will most likely eliminate the membership requirement as well.  

I can not imagine that anyone would not want to join their state bowhunting organization so I can only assume that most people who complain about membership requirements do so for financial reasons.  The tanking economy is why we are considering dropping our membership requirement and putting our newsletter online. That being said, when you consider the work that goes into setting up a quality shoot and the rising costs of maintaining targets, facilities, and equipment, $50 for a two day state championship shoot is a heck of a bargain.  

Both the Ga and Fla shoots cost less than that.


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## Fatboy (Mar 2, 2009)

It's not the money.I am an on again off again member but won't be forced to join the club just to shoot.I am not alone in this.There might not be alot of us but there are some.If they make you join they should call it the TBG championship and leave out the state part.Maybe just me but that's ok too.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 2, 2009)

Gregg said it best, so I will leave it at that.


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## Fatboy (Mar 2, 2009)

This is what cracks me up.Ya'll assume that I have no idea what goes on.I was very much involved for years when I was part of Tomo Chi Chi and we hosted the state.The TBG really didn't do much for the state back then.They basically just let us host it.We have never made people join before and I don't think we should now.BTW the TBG is not our state bowhunting org.They are a trad club in this state.


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## Al33 (Mar 2, 2009)

Per the advertisement about the State Shoot in the Winter 09 TBG publication non TBG members State Shoot fees will be $50 for individuals and $65 for family.

Having cleared this up let me also say I still think that is a heck of a bargain. If money is not the issue and you do not want to be a TBG member I would suppose you could make that clear when registering so as not to be included in the TBG membership rolls and not receive any publications from TBG.

Fifty bucks compared to what many others spend and donate both in dollars, fuel, labor, and time to make this event possible really isn't too much to ask from a non-member, IMHO. Just some food for thought here, not trying to shame anyone who feels differently or who is convicted otherwise. Neither am I saying that it is necessarily a good policy, I'm not sure if it is or not, but apparently the TBG leadership thinks so so that is good enough for me.


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## Fatboy (Mar 2, 2009)

Here is the thing.I was a member last year for the first time in a while.My membership ran out in Jan. of this year.When I got the newsletter that had the state info in it I was not particularly happy about the forced entry into the TBG.I was all set to join again until I saw that.I have friends that have no desire to be members of an org that they feel doesn't offer much to them personally.So this means that I can't shoot the state with them this year.BTW these guys have hunted strictly trad for years now.Really doesn't matter much I was actually hoping that some on here that  think they know what's going on would enlighten me as to why TBG would do this at this time.


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## Al33 (Mar 2, 2009)

Fatboy said:


> Here is the thing.I was a member last year for the first time in a while.My membership ran out in Jan. of this year.When I got the newsletter that had the state info in it I was not particularly happy about the forced entry into the TBG.I was all set to join again until I saw that.I have friends that have no desire to be members of an org that they feel doesn't offer much to them personally.So this means that I can't shoot the state with them this year.BTW these guys have hunted strictly trad for years now.Really doesn't matter much I was actually hoping that some on here that  think they know what's going on would enlighten me as to why TBG would do this at this time.



I am merely a regular member of TBG and not an officer so I certainly cannot speak for any of them or TBG. I am certain your concerns would be better expressed to one of the officers or the president, Joel Smith, versus just throwing it out here on an open forum where they may never read it.


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## Fatboy (Mar 2, 2009)

No biggie Al.I don't really have to know.I just thought some of the people on here who might be "regular" members would know what their club is doing and why.No big deal really.I know Joel and he's a fine fella but didn't think I would have to go all the way to the top for some simple info.


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## 2wheelfoster (Mar 2, 2009)

Can someone clear this up for me? What is the fee for my son (who is 12) to shoot in the state shoot? I am interested in shooting for fun only but he wants to compete? Thanks!


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## Al33 (Mar 2, 2009)

2wheelfoster said:


> Can someone clear this up for me? What is the fee for my son (who is 12) to shoot in the state shoot? I am interested in shooting for fun only but he wants to compete? Thanks!



Here is the TBG President's contact information so anyone who has questions may direct them to him personally:

Joel Smith 770-567-1828 or 678-967-2055


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## trad bow (Mar 2, 2009)

I am not an officer  and haven't been for the past couple terms but I didn't go to Floridas shoot because of the higher fee for non-members so they could up their membership. The reason they done it that way was to have more political clout by having a higher membership. I believe it should be a personal choice to have someone join and don't want anyone telling me I have to be. I am a life member of TBG and I want us to have members who join of their own accord. If our officers see this differently then I will support them but I will express my concerns. I will call and express my concerns.  Jeff


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 2, 2009)

2wheelfoster

First off, what is your status of membership, if any?  The reason I ask is because if you are a regular or an associate membe, it is considered a family membership, according to the by-laws.  If you are a member, then your son is a member and wil lshoot for regular member fees, whatever that is depending on his age.  If he is an adult, his fees will be $20.00 just like any other member.  IF he is an adult, he has to live in your household to go on your "family membership".  I would think that if he is in college, living away from home, that would still be ok.

Now it does bring up another question which may or may not pertain to you.  What if a non member and his adult son come to the
 shoot and do not want to join the TBG?  Do they both have to pay $50.00 to shoot?  Economically it would be better foir dad to join and let junior shoot on the family membership.

This is all new infor for me because until FATBOY raised the question, I did not know this was in the works.

In any case, if you have questions about the TBG, this is not the place to ask them.  As you have seen, you will get opinions, assumptions, and supositions, just like my original answer.  You need to ask that question on the TradGang Georgia site.  It is the closest thing we have for a TBG forum.  Go to:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=34

and post your questions there.  That is where the officers check in and that is where you should be able to get the correct answers.

I will start a thread of these type questions there.


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## gregg dudley (Mar 2, 2009)

Jeff, 

I can't wait to share a campfire with you at the new hunt club and debate this point   I'll save it until then though.  As you probably read above, TBOF has a proposal for consideration this Friday that would remove a seperate membership fee.  Essentially, you would be a member by virtue of participation.  If passed (and I think it will be) it will take effect immediately.

For whatever reason, people get hung up on a membership requirement.  There are people who would willingly pay $1,000,000 that was labelled as a shoot fee, but would balk at the idea of paying $900,000 for the same privellege if it was broken down into shoot fee and membership...    Drifting off into a debate

I'll save it.  

Gregg


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## bownarrow (Mar 2, 2009)

sorry to be so late joining this discussion, don't get to get online much these days. We actually came up with this proposal because TBOF had been so successful with it. they have done this for some time now and they have some of the best attended shoots and largest member rolls around. By those two criteria they have been very successful. Those two mumbers also seem to be one key to their better vendor attendance (according to a couple of vendors i talked to). Ironic that they would choose to stop doing that in the same year we decided to try it.

To clarify the actual intention, we planned to allow people to shoot any course (including the tournament courses) at regular fees as long as they were not competing for trophy or title. The opinion had been voiced more than once that to be a champion of TBG's state championship, the shooter should at least be a member of the hosting body, no different than the PGA insisting you be a member of theirs in order to compete in their tournaments.

Please continue this discussion,it's one of the ways we have of making decisions.

thanks,
Joel Smith
President, TBG


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## bownarrow (Mar 2, 2009)

Gregg,really appreciate you chiming in since you've "been there, done that".

Anyone who knows me knows i am not afraid of discussion or even debate if it comes to that. One thing i forgot to say above: the buck stops here---if this was a bad decision then it is my fault. If I become convinced that it was a bad decision, i'll admit i was wrong and work to fix it. 

Keep me in the loop and let's see where this goes.

thanks again,
Joel


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## 2wheelfoster (Mar 3, 2009)

Papalapin, I am not a member of TBG. My son (who is 12) and I have been shooting traditional just over a month now. My son does want to compete in the state shoot. I had planned on shooting for fun. I didn't mean to start a mess here, I was just trying to figure out the $'s.


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## Fatboy (Mar 3, 2009)

2wheel I don't think you are the one that started anything.I did it.The only reason I said anything was because the shoot is soon and the only people that knew were already members.It should have been advertised beforehand.There will be people coming to this shoot that will not be aware that changes have been made since the last time they came.If they keep it that way I'll shoot for fun this year.No problem.


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## Al33 (Mar 3, 2009)

No one has started anything bad, quite the contrary, this is good stuff because not only is it informative and providing answers, it is constructive and good feedback to be evaluated and acted upon. I appreciate the gentlemanly way everyone has expressed their concerns. 

Glad you found the time to step in Joel!


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## Jeff Kitchens (Mar 3, 2009)

I agree with Al.  No one has started anything bad.  2wheel I do not have a answer for you right now but I will try to find out and get back to you.  I know Joel is having computer issues and it is hard for him to post.  I appreciate everyones comments and we are listening.  It is impossible to make everyone happy but we are trying to do what we think is the best for the club and its members.  This topic was brought up at the yearly meeting.  Maybe next year we can have more people at the meeting addressing issues that are important to the club.


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## dutchman (Mar 3, 2009)

I still need to send in my application for Associate Membership along with my check for the fee. Or can I simply bring all of this with me to the State Shoot and take care of it there?


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## Jeff Kitchens (Mar 3, 2009)

Dutchman you will be able to take care of everything at the shoot.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry to be so late in getting back

As mentioned before, no one is starting a mess here.  Actually, until FATBOY made his post, I was not aware of the changes.  It has been a bit of an education for me.  I am glad Joel jumped in and made his comments.

Believe me, the TBG is not a money hungry organization, but we do have to cover our cost for the event.

The TBG is about promoting traditional archery, and there is nobody as important to us as the kids.  I don't know what the youth prices are for shooting, or if they will be effected by the extra charge to shoot for the championship.

Personally, I don't go to win the championship.  I go to have a good time and share a day with folks that share my passion.  However, I can understand that a 12 yr old will have his eye on that top trophey.  I do not want to shoot in his group because he wil lprobably show me up, which ain't too hard to do.

FATBOY - Thanks for opening up this dialog.  I hope you wil ljoin us in Culloden.  As  I understand it now, you will not have to join or pay a higher fee to shoot for fun and comradarie.

BRING FLU FLUS


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## Fatboy (Mar 3, 2009)

Jack I fully intend to be at the shoot.My dad may even come this year.I don't know yet if I'll try to compete this year or not but I'll be there anyway.I need to get some fluflus so I can try the aerials.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 3, 2009)

Well, I am bring my wife for her first one.  

Looks like I will have to behave myself for a change.

I wonder if there is a trophy for "Ladies-never shot a bow before"

For your GPS or MapQuest

2002 City of Refuge Road
Culloden, GA

See y'all there.


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## robert carter (Mar 3, 2009)

I gotta work ..you fellas have fun. For the record I will say that 50 bucks is awful steep and will turn some folks away.25 bucks I would pay without thinking twice.RC


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## SOS (Mar 3, 2009)

{Fatboy, as a side note it IS the Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia State Championship.)

As an associate member, I think it's silly to complain about being "forced" to be a member to shoot.  And folks that think TBG doesn't do anything for them aren't really paying attention.  The organization hosts several fun hunts, several local shoots, a state shoot and a banquet.  If you don't want to participate in these activities, that's fine.  But what is sad is these folks are NOT supporting the work TBG does bringing traditional archery to many kids and other folks.  We take our targets to Rock Eagle and set a 3D course for the kids.  We support several "outdoor" days.  Not to mention what it takes for buying insurance, new targets, newsletters, etc.  It all isn't just about what you personally get out of it, it's about what TBG does for the sport.

Time to give a little to traditional archery in Georgia - you'd be surprised what you get out of it.  For the about the price of refletching a dozen arrows, it's a good deal.

Just my 2 cents.  Think about it.  You'll miss a lot of fun and friendship while camping and shooting in a beautiful location if you don't come.  Steve


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## dutchman (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeff Kitchens said:


> Dutchman you will be able to take care of everything at the shoot.



Good deal! See you guys in about 10 days!


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 4, 2009)

Well said Steve. The cost of a membership is $2.50/month. In my opinion, a pittance to help financially support an organization that is constantly trying to promote and enhance traditional bowhunting/archery in Georgia. By the way, ALL those who are involved with TBG are volunteers; no one is paid. 100% of the funds go towards support of traditional bowhunting on a very direct, "grass-roots" level. So, how much is a little insurance that traditional archery stays alive and well worth to you?

We are discussing all the comments from Tradgang and here between the officers. There is nothing solidified at this time, but one of the possible outcomes is, simplistically: _membership required to compete + $20 to shoot, $35 for a family_  and  _non-members $30 to shoot for fun, $45 for family. _ Current members in good standing need not "re-up" their membership and no one is "forced" to join to shoot.

We genuinely appreciate these types of discussions. If you would be so kind, I'd like to hear some input on this proposal.


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## Dennis (Mar 4, 2009)

I think that will be as close to making everybody happy as we can get


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## F1Rocket (Mar 4, 2009)

Having a lot of experience in a number of hobby type activities, I have pretty strong feelings about charging "kids" to participate at any level. Most of the hobbies I have been involved in are losing participants at increasing levels and part of that is because there is so little looking into the future and investing in it.

There are a lot of ways to encourage youth to join in and I am pretty sure that $$$ are not one of them.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 4, 2009)

While I agree with Steve and JC, my understanding is that a non member only has to pay the higher fee to compete for trophies.  Non mambers can still shoot for fun for regular fees.

F1Rocket

I think youths (12 and older) pay half of the adult fee, about $10 or $12.50 to shoot, and cubs (11 and younger) shoot for free (I think)

When you consider all the other cost involved in going, another $10 or $12 should not be a deal breaker.

Seems to be a lot of controversey about this.  All we want to do is put on a quality event that everyone will enjoy, at as an affordable price as we can.  A lot of time  and effort is going into this, by  a lot of "unpaid" folks.  I hope you will all take part.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 4, 2009)

Jack, as of right now, the proposal I have put up for vote is as stated: you MUST be a TBG member to _compete_ in the TBG Championship. I think that is a legitimate and perfectly reasonable requirement. I'm not made of money but if I go to shoot in another state for a trophy, I join their organization simply because I know what it takes to run one and it seems only fair that members be the ones to take home the organization's prizes. Cheap support for me, but other's mileage may vary. ANY traditional archer can come and shoot for fun at the state shoot with the corresponding fee, but you will need a TBG membership if you want a chance at the trophy. The lesser fee for members is taking into consideration their existing financial support. 

That may not pass with the other officers, but I think that's the way it should be. Again, I'd like to hear some thoughts on why someone would think it needs to be different. We may not be able to make everyone happy, but we want to consider everyone's input in whatever decisions we try to make in the best interest of TBG.

F1, cubs (under 12) are always free. If you have a youth who does not have an adult to shoot with, come see me at the shoot and I will make sure we get them shooting for free. However, if an adult is shooting with a youth, they would need either 2 fees or a family fee. Youth arrows damage targets as well as adult arrows but we will make sure a youth without another shooter has someone who will support/teach them as well as keep them safe on the range.


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## robert carter (Mar 4, 2009)

Well...I`ll go ahead and make everybody mad I guess. I think that the price is to much. I agree kids should shoot free and if a fella has one or six it should`nt change that.No one can tell me how much trouble ANY shoot is to set up because I`ve done a couple pretty much by myself.Kids arrows don`t damage the targets as much and half of them won`t hit the target.I don`t think a fella should be a member of the club to shoot for a trophy or pay extra to compete if thats the case your just having a "club" shoot.

  In my opinion a shoot would be to draw others to the sport as well as a get together and competition for those already "hooked". If I were interested and wanted to shoot the price would turn me away.I`ve not shot a tournament in 3 or4 years so I guess I`m way behind whats going on but If I could have got more folks to come to the Southern shoots I would have wanted to let them shoot for five or ten bucks and tried to even out the expense on concessions and novelty shoots.I at one time enjoyed shoots as much as the next fella and hope to attend some this year ...mainly a couple at HorseCreek at Calvary and the HH shoot.But I will say the this forum has done more to Promote Traditional archery and hunting then anything I know in Ga. Its Free. We`ve had more attendance at hunts than people would believe.I think nearly twenty at HorseCreek this year if you count the whole ten days.Many new people have got on board here and I appreciate what Al has done.  

  I know the TBG fellas have to see the big picture for the club but If you were gonna charge me 50 bucks to compete in the shoot...I`ll take the 50 and my tent and spend a week on the Altamaha chasing critters and come back with change.RC


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## John Cooper (Mar 4, 2009)

robert carter said:


> Well...I`ll go ahead and make everybody mad I guess. I think that the price is to much. I agree kids should shoot free and if a fella has one or six it should`nt change that.No one can tell me how much trouble ANY shoot is to set up because I`ve done a couple pretty much by myself.Kids arrows don`t damage the targets as much and half of them won`t hit the target.I don`t think a fella should be a member of the club to shoot for a trophy or pay extra to compete if thats the case your just having a "club" shoot.
> 
> In my opinion a shoot would be to draw others to the sport as well as a get together and competition for those already "hooked". If I were interested and wanted to shoot the price would turn me away.I`ve not shot a tournament in 3 or4 years so I guess I`m way behind whats going on but If I could have got more folks to come to the Southern shoots I would have wanted to let them shoot for five or ten bucks and tried to even out the expense on concessions and novelty shoots.I at one time enjoyed shoots as much as the next fella and hope to attend some this year ...mainly a couple at HorseCreek at Calvary and the HH shoot.But I will say the this forum has done more to Promote Traditional archery and hunting then anything I know in Ga. Its Free. We`ve had more attendance at hunts than people would believe.I think nearly twenty at HorseCreek this year if you count the whole ten days.Many new people have got on board here and I appreciate what Al has done.
> 
> I know the TBG fellas have to see the big picture for the club but If you were gonna charge me 50 bucks to compete in the shoot...I`ll take the 50 and my tent and spend a week on the Altamaha chasing critters and come back with change.RC




im with RC on this one........i could type more but i want .....


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 4, 2009)

Ah, John...a man of few words.

RC...sorry you won't be there.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 4, 2009)

RC, Nobody's should get mad with you for voicing an opinion...especially one so politely presented. We genuinely  appreciate the input. Since you took the time to post, I think it deserves an answer:

We would love to do the shoot for free, but it ain't happening with one this big. Simply too many expenses to cover. Our club makes absolutley no money...whatever we make at any event in any fashion goes right back into the cause. Insurance, the trailers, targets/stakes/signs, rentals, fees, kids trailers equipment, food, vendors, speakers etc. etc....it all adds up. Sadly we don't have a millionare benefactor who'll pick up the tab for all that so we can do it for free.

I have no clue what shoots you have set up, nor do I assume to know how hard they were to set up. I do know that there is a ridiculous amount of work that goes into setting up a shoot of this size with 40+ targets on 2 courses, novelty targets, coon shoot, iron man, score cards, sign in, memberships, teaching, etc. etc. If you can do all that by yourself, we sure could use your help at these because it takes a lot more of us to get it all done.

Some TBG members feel like you, that you shouldn't have to be a member to compete in the State Shoot...many others feel the opposite. Most of those we have talked to who are serious about competing don't mind the additional money...$2.50 a month seems cheap to most considering everything that goes way beyond just the competition they are getting. Your mileage may vary...and when there's enough of those that feel the same I'm sure the wind of change will blow in that direction. 

$20 to shoot at least 60 targets is cheap by most opinions. I firmly believe if you want to compete you need to pay the entry fee, in this case membership. To compete men also have to shoot at least a 450gr arrow, you can't use sights, no stabilizers, no releases etc. etc....I see the membership is just another requirement for competition. And I'm paying it like everyone else is.

Those not interested in competing for a trophy not only can shoot this one for fun but they still have plenty of other great shoots to attend. If you are very tight on money, then you have to give up something...in this case, the chance at a trophy. TBG has 2-3 other shoots each year that are also very reasonably priced. For example, last year at my place, we had 138 people...cost was 10-$15 and if you couldn't afford the great food you ate for free. That was with gas @$4/gallon...so obviously it made a huge impact in exposure for what we love to do. The other zone shoots are very similar. Want a cheap shoot for fun and braggin rights? Come to a zone shoot. Want a nice trophy and hotter competition? Come to the state shoot and meet the qualifications. Glad to have any and all at either.

Cub's (12 and under) are free. Youth, are not...you must draw the line somewhere and I think that's a fair spot. Chase's 45# longbow and Skyler's 45# longbow (both of them are 13/14) do just as much damage to a target as any adult's 45# longbow, typically more because more often than not they hit what they are aiming at.

I think this is a great forum too, but we differ on it being the primary promoter for traditional bowhunting/archery in GA. Thankfully, it's a free country and there are enough organizations/forums for everyone to find something they are looking for.

If I wasn't doing my darndest next weekend to help with this production, I'd rather go hunt to. But this is one time when I personally feel like my and everyone else's efforts are best spent at furthering our passion. It's not every weekend I think that, but this shoot, a zone shoot, the banquet are times worth me laying down my desire to chase critters and give something back to those who attend...whether they are existing members or newbies. I'm sure you have your own methods of doing so but these are a few I and others work really hard at. Besides, it's a lot of fun to shoot with all my friends and laugh and cut up and just have a grand time...something we rarely do in serious hunting mode. 

All this may be moot anyway, the officers may vote for another policy for this shoot. For me, I'm sticking with this proposal as sound.

Hope you change your mind and come to one of the shoots, I'm sure you'd be a welcome addition to the event.


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## OconeeDan (Mar 4, 2009)

In another competetive shooting sport I am involved with, they let new shooters shoot the first time, and only the first, for free.  Not for trophies.  Just to get them hooked. 
Free for the first time, no matter your age, sex, religion, weight, etc.
Dan


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## RogerB (Mar 5, 2009)

Well, I would probably be better off if I kept my hand on the mouse rather than the key board, but.....and my opinion is probably worth just what it is going to cost everyone to read it.

But here goes,

Joe, the first thing I will say is I 100% support TBG's right to set their rules anyway they wish, and I will follow them what ever they are if I chose to shoot.
That being said I really do agree with much of what RC has to say (not that any body cares) except the part about the cost.
I personally think it is very reasonable to charge members and non-members a different fee to shoot "for the money". And I think it is poor idea to allow people to "shoot for fun" if you will at a reduced cost. Those of us that just don't shoot well enough to compete with the "big boy" would be a fool to pay the full fee, when there is a cheaper option just for the asking. I do think I should be able to shoot what ever I want to (traditional equiptment) if I don't want to "shoot for the money" but it should still cost me either the member or non-member cost, which ever I am. If you shoot the course, you pay the fees. Take the extra money I would pay to "shoot for the money" over what you propose to let me "shoot for fun" and use that to let the kids shoot free. What I don't think is that should be required to join TBG to shoot "for the money".
I am retired now so what I am going to say no longer is an issue, but in my previous life, I didn't join conservation organizations because of the possible conflict of interest it could cause. I say that only to point out folks often have very good reasons for what they do or don't do. Also, one of the reasons organizatons want to increase membership is to have a bigger lobby. That is a good thing, however, your if your represenativies discover a fair number of the numbers you are using to lobby are not their constitunents, you loose credibility. I actually think you are better off having a residency requirement for membership. After all how can you call yourselves Traditional Bowhunters of GEORGIA!! when many of you members are not. 
Keep your membership to residents, welcome all to shoot, and charge a fair price for all.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 5, 2009)

First, let me say this: We would love to see the entire membership vote on all matters of business. However, very few come early to the banquet to propose/vote on new or old business. You want to see change in anything to do with TBG? Become a regular member, come to the open meeting prior to the banquet and voice your proposal. We vote on it and if it passes it becomes a part of TBG, as long as it does not conflict with the by-laws. 


Roger, thanks for the input and I do consider it valuable. I know all the officers reading these comments are taking them into consideration. Most of what you mention is the way it had been done for some years with TBG. We shall see if we return to that procedure again; it is certainly still an option, as any other proposal that may come up for discussion.

I guess we will all have to differ on the concept of "kids." I know quite a few young men who are very competitive and do indeed need to be grouped into a "serious shooter" category. They should pay like any adult and I say that, mine included. Where do you draw the line at who pays and who doesn't? To me, it's arbitrary. 13 is a good enough number as any in my opinion. However, bring up your point at the meeting (right before the banquet) and it may just change. 

Dan, I would support that great idea and will bring it up at the officer's meeting if you are not there. The problem is how do you propose we determine who is a first timer and who is not? I fear there are some who would take advantage of that or there would be hard feelings if we didn't have a way to "prove" who was new and who wasn't. There is already a bunch of paperwork (that already takes up a lot of time with those running the tables); I'm not sure how we would do that without adding a too much on their plates. By the way, by the look of your picture, your knifemaking skills have grown by leaps and bounds. Are you bringing some of your work to the shoot? I'm not thick on cash right now but need anything we could trade for?


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## ChrisSpikes (Mar 5, 2009)

Joe "JC" Coots said:


> The problem is how do you propose we determine who is a first timer and who is not? I fear there are some who would take advantage of that or there would be hard feelings if we didn't have a way to "prove" who was new and who wasn't. There is already a bunch of paperwork (that already takes up a lot of time with those running the tables); I'm not sure how we would do that without adding a too much on their plates.



The same way you determine age.  How do you determine who is 13?  Do you require a copy of their birth certificate?  Like it or not, some things have to flow on a system of honor.  While there will always be a very few unscrupulous individuals who will take advantage wherever they see opportunity, you cannot dismiss the general population for their actions.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 5, 2009)

Point taken. When it comes to money, I wish I had as much faith in human nature as you do. I've seen far too much of the darker side to have that view.

It sounds like a great idea in general and we'll see what the rest of the membership/officers say at the yearly meeting.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 5, 2009)

Just a poit of clarification.

My understanding is that 12 yrs old is in the older Youth Group, not the Cubs.  We need to be clear on this if some 12 yr olds come expecting to shoot in the cub division at no cost, and then find they have to pay and shoot with the older kids.

The whole point of these discussions right now on this forum should be to provide the correct information for this shoot coming up.

Any discussion about what should or should not be should be taking place ont the Georgia TradGang forum which is more appropriately the TBG's official discussion site, since we don't have that capability on the TBG website.

Just my thoughts.


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## Al33 (Mar 5, 2009)

PAPALAPIN said:


> The whole point of these discussions right now on this forum should be to provide the correct information for this shoot coming up.
> 
> Any discussion about what should or should not be should be taking place ont the Georgia TradGang forum which is more appropriately the TBG's official discussion site, since we don't have that capability on the TBG website.
> 
> Just my thoughts.



Good points Jack, but it is difficult, if not impossible,  to answer questions about the shoot without some explanations which most always require an opinion, either from the poster or the poster sharing a collective opinion.

I agree on both counts; 1) that Tradgang is the official TBG forum, and 2) it would be easier if this conversation were held in one room versus two (sites). However, by discussing the issues on both, we are at least, getting the word out there for more to read and learn from, and enlightenment is the point of this thread.

I would like to encourage everyone here to register and participate in both sites but am aware there are some who cannot participate at the tradgang site, so I am glad they can at least voice their opinions here.


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## Jeff Kitchens (Mar 5, 2009)

Jack my understanding is 12 and younger is a cub.  Now that being said we have had some that were not 13 yet that wanted to compete in the youth division.  If they pay the fee and want to compete as a youth we allowed that.  
Also, I think it is good to have these disscussions here and on trad gang.  They both are great sites that help us promote our sport.  I like GON because sometimes the guys over here are a little quicker to comment on issues.  Done in the right way that is a good thing.
To let everyone know the TBG officers are trying to do what is best for the club.


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## Jeff Kitchens (Mar 5, 2009)

Al I was typing when you posted.  Sorry I am at work.  I agree with what you said except tradgang is not the official site of TBG.  I have been trying and will continue to try to get links on out web site to tradgang and to here.  I like both of them.  I want it to stay that way.  
Al you do a good job over here keeping people on track.  Some of us just lurk here mostly but that does not mean we don't read and value your opinions.  Keep it coming.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 5, 2009)

Jack, there are many TBG members that don't post on Tradgang for whatever reasons they may have. Any discussion here is as valuable as there, it just may not be seen by as many. As an officer though, I take in anything I see over here and at least pose it to the other officers.

As a last minute update, the current proposal up for an emergency vote among the officers: Members $20, $35 family and Non-Members $30, $45 for family. Anyone who pays the fee can compete or shoot for fun as they wish. Cubs 12 and under shoot free, Youth 13 and older pay.

I will let everyone know as soon as all officers have voted and what the final decision is.


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## Al33 (Mar 5, 2009)

Joe "JC" Coots said:


> As a last minute update, the current proposal up for an emergency vote among the officers: Members $20, $35 family and Non-Members $30, $45 for family. Anyone who pays the fee can compete or shoot for fun as they wish. Cubs 12 and under shoot free, Youth 13 and older pay.



That seems, to me at least, a very reasonable proposal and should be satisfactory to most. I hope it passes.

To all of the officers, zone rep.s, and behind the scenes volunteers of TBG a great big THANK YOU for all you do. There should be absolutely no doubt of your good intentions for the welfare of the organization and the sport of traditional bow hunting.

I often wonder how much it personally costs folks like Tony Smith who works tirelessly traveling all over this state promoting traditional archery by holding events for the kids, and of course others who volunteer to get the youth trailer from one spot to the next, just to mention a few.


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## robert carter (Mar 5, 2009)

JC ,  That seems like a reasonable deal. I agree the kids under 12 should shoot free and if I were a non-member and wanted to compete i`d pay thirty bucks.Don`t think for a minute I don`t appreciate what you fellas do. I very much miss the shoots but the job I have won`t let me off much or I would go to some.I am gonna get tuned up with my longbow and show up to one. I shot a bag target the other day and when I pulled the bow and did`nt see blades it kinda freaked me out.RC


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 5, 2009)

Alright ya'll...we have a final (at least for this shoot) decision. Please see the flier below for shoot fees:







Thanks for all your input! Now, let's move on to the fun stuff!

Al, could you replace the flier in the other thread with this one so there is no confusion?


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## Al33 (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks Joe! I will add it to the sticky thread about upcoming shoots. Good job!!!!!


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## 2wheelfoster (Mar 5, 2009)

Thank you! We are looking forward to shooting with ya'll.


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## Jeff Kitchens (Mar 5, 2009)

2wheel look forward to seeing you.  I hope the revised flyer answered your questions.


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## choctawlb (Mar 8, 2009)

I know this is a little off topic from the previous threads, but I ain't into all that. Ya'll look me up this weekend. I'll be in the big "A" frame canvas tent, as long as nothing unexpected pops up between now and then. It is my intention to come up Friday morning and set up camp, then stay through till Sunday. I've been an on again off again member of the TBG since 1991, so there are a bunch of ya'll I've never met. Some of the members I know well such as  "Hatchet" Dan, Al33, Randy Keene, Dutchman,  and Chris. Look forward to meeting some more of ya'll. Drop by and pull up a log by the fire.  See ya'll next weekend.
Ken


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 8, 2009)

I plan to get there about 9:00 AM and stay for the day.  I am bringing ny lovely bride for her first shoot, and supposedly meeting a young couple and 6 yr old that have never shot.

Hoping Pine Nut brings his better half.

Looking foeward to it.


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## Jake Allen (Mar 11, 2009)

Almost time. I plan to pull in early Saturday and stay till it's over on 
Sunday. I am bringing another rookie with me and lot's of arras for both of us to fling.
Looking forward to this thing and seeing all you good folks.


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## gregg dudley (Mar 11, 2009)

See you late Friday!


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## Al33 (Mar 11, 2009)

I have had a change of plans and will not be arriving on Friday to camp. I hope to be there early Saturday morning but only for the day. Looking forward to it and hate I will miss the pot luck supper.


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## turtlebug (Mar 11, 2009)

See yall Saturday morning! 

Oh yeah, if anyone is allergic to talkative 11 year olds, bring your earplugs cause Bulls-eye Abbey is gonna be in tow.


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## pine nut (Mar 11, 2009)

As of right now my wife and I are coming Friday PM andstaying for the whole embarrassing THING!!!!!  It will be her first and only my second time!  Looking forward to seeing all of you.  Bill


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## dutchman (Mar 11, 2009)

choctawlb said:


> I know this is a little off topic from the previous threads, but I ain't into all that. Ya'll look me up this weekend. I'll be in the big "A" frame canvas tent, as long as nothing unexpected pops up between now and then. It is my intention to come up Friday morning and set up camp, then stay through till Sunday. I've been an on again off again member of the TBG since 1991, so there are a bunch of ya'll I've never met. Some of the members I know well such as  "Hatchet" Dan, Al33, Randy Keene, Dutchman,  and Chris. Look forward to meeting some more of ya'll. Drop by and pull up a log by the fire.  See ya'll next weekend.
> Ken



I hope I can find you. I'm bringing loot! You should as well...


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 11, 2009)

Pine Nut

If possible, Paula and I would like to shoot with you and Karen.  I wanted to shoot with 'Bug and Jerome but Paula wants to shoot with someone less experienced.  Scared Bug is gonna make fun of her amaturish shooting.  We can stills shoot with Bug and Jerome.


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## fountain (Mar 11, 2009)

we plan to pull out friday afternoon.  we will be bringing the camper and staying right inside the gate as you pull in--the same place we stayed last year.  look forward to seeing everyone---weather permitting.


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## pine nut (Mar 11, 2009)

Jack that's fine with us.   I may have to see how timing goes because some of my friends and I have been talking about breakfast etc together.  I have told Karin, and she will do this: "that she will be shooting only against herself and not in competition with anyone else, and that she can shoot from where ever she wants to shoot from to feel comfortable".  I see no harm in that, and you two are more than welcome to join us.


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 12, 2009)

Bill, is Lanier coming? More importantly, is Lanier coming with his dutch oven?

And yes, the goal is to have fun. If they aren't competing, we encourage everyone to shoot from any safe distance from the target they feel comfortable with. It certainly makes for more smiles and a heart full of the joy only the simple flight of an arrow can provide. I've even convinced folks to stay at one target, shooting at various ranges to get a bad shot "out of their head".


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## fountain (Mar 12, 2009)

the weather is not looking too swift.


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## dutchman (Mar 12, 2009)

fountain said:


> the weather is not looking too swift.



It sure ain't...


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## Joe "JC" Coots (Mar 12, 2009)

Awww, it'll be fun! It's either go to a wonderful gathering of trad folks in the rain or do Miss Kim's chores...not a tough decision fer me. 

One thing about a shoot in the rain, we'll see who has their arrows tuned


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## dutchman (Mar 12, 2009)

I'm coming, rain or no rain!


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## choctawlb (Mar 12, 2009)

I'll be there in the rain, or the sunshine.
Ken


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 12, 2009)

No rain - Paula

rain - no Paula

Rain or shine - ME


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## gregg dudley (Mar 12, 2009)

Last year, the rain clouds, thunder storms and twisters parted around Culloden.  I expect nothing less this time around.


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## Al33 (Mar 12, 2009)

A bunch of us shot in the rain, sleet, then snow at the NGTA shoot in Gainsville on the first of this month. It was definitely wet and cold but sure was a lot of fun.


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## SOS (Mar 12, 2009)

The only thing the questionable weather has done is to make me break out the pop-up camper.  Will be there mid to late afternoon tomorrow!  I switched from my real heavy arrows with the wild turkey fletching...with the rain, should have stayed with the wild feathers.  Anyway, everything looks like scattered showers.  Will just have to shoot around them.


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## schleylures (Mar 13, 2009)

I wish I was going to be there but have to carry the ladies to a wedding in St. Marys have fun guys, and gals.


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## BkBigkid (Mar 13, 2009)

I going to aim to be there at 9am but more than likely it will be closer to 10, No set time to leave Yet. Still attempting to tlak the wife in to going but she has no interest YET 


I going to have a few Bows with me If anyone is looking,


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## shawn mills (Mar 14, 2009)

Enjoyed meeting all yall today and really enjoyed the shooting!


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## F1Rocket (Mar 14, 2009)

I didn't meet everyone by a long shot, but I did meet some new faces. Enjoyed seeing all of the beautiful bows.

Dennis allowed that it was OK for me to get into the bow collecting addiction. 

I did get to enjoy visiting, watching some of the best left handed shooters around, and some other "new friends".

The weather was amazingly good there compared to the areas just to the north.......rain and fog.


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## PAPALAPIN (Mar 15, 2009)

BK

As you saw yesterday, all ya gott do is get her ther one time.

Looks like I have created a monster.  Now Paula is saying that her goal is to shoot a whole round with "no misses".  Wish I had not insisted on going down with the motor home for the Central zone shoot.  I think she would have come if it had just beem for the day, and now that she has see what is like, she would have come down for the whole weekend at the state shoot.

You, 'Bug, and Jerome had a lot to do with her enjoying it. 

A Big "THANK YOU"


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## 2wheelfoster (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for a great shoot this weekend! I only busted 3 arrows this time! Can't wait to shoot those new carbons from Big Jims!


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## turtlebug (Mar 15, 2009)

Anybody heard any RESULTS?


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## fountain (Mar 15, 2009)

yep...shouldda been there.


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## turtlebug (Mar 15, 2009)

fountain said:


> yep...shouldda been there.



 

Are they posted?


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## BkBigkid (Mar 15, 2009)

PAPALAPIN said:


> You, 'Bug, and Jerome had a lot to do with her enjoying it.
> 
> A Big "THANK YOU"




No Need to say "Thank you"

We had a great Time with Great people, I am Looking forward to getting a chance to Shoot a Round with Paula and you again. I have gotten used to shooting that Crooked arra that you Told/dared me to Keep using it.  It wasn't about hitting Targets but having a good time. I have no clue to anything resembling a Score for the round, I enjoy the experence of shooting with Friends. 

*Thank you* for allowing me to Join your group through the course.


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