# A dead tree and vacant house - what should I do?



## DannyW (May 11, 2017)

I have a problem and hopefully the wide audience here will help me solve it.

The house next door has been vacant for a year. From what I have been able to determine researching it on the internet, it's going through a 'short sale' process.

The problem is that there is a very large dead tree in the back yard. If it should fall in my direction, and from all appearances it will fall somewhere over the next few months, the tree will hit either my deck or house - or both.

Another neighbor told me that they saw somewhere that Bank of America now holds the note on the house. I called BOA and they would not talk to me, citing privacy issues regarding the property. No one lives at the home, and I have zero clue where the owner now lives. I have tried to contact the listing agent without success (I made a mistake of leaving a message the first time I called the agent, now they will not answer the phone when I call.)

I don't want to be responsible for this tree and the damage it causes when it falls. Not to mention the potential personal liability if it should fall and hit a person. I cringe every time we get a strong storm blowing in from the south.

What would you do?


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## rjcruiser (May 11, 2017)

I would walk over there and cut it down.  Or...Id get on the phone and talk to a higher up at BofA and tell them they'll have a lawsuit on their hands if it does fall and hit your property.


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## brunofishing (May 11, 2017)

Send a certified letter to BOA about your concerns. Ball will be in there court after that. Might help might not, once that tree falls on your property its yours. Your Insurance will cover your damages and go after them if they have your documentation!


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## bilgerat (May 11, 2017)

a little diesel fuel and fertilizer mixed in the right proportions will take care of it


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## Capt Quirk (May 11, 2017)

As much as I hate to say it, this sounds like a good time to speak to a lawyer. They would know the route you should take to protect yourself.

See? I can stay on topic


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## lagrangedave (May 11, 2017)

Call the building permit office and request a visit by a code compliance officer. They can flag it and stop the closing until the issue is resolved.


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## PappyHoel (May 11, 2017)

If I was in a rural area with not many people around, that tree would mysteriously fall away from my house.  If you're in a populated area the certified letter would be prudent.


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## model88_308 (May 11, 2017)

Since the house is now involved in a "short sale" BOA is not involved any further than holding the note and agreeing to the terms of the sale. The sale is still from the present owner (through BOA) to the prospective buyer. Perhaps you can locate the present owner through updated tax records. 

The home is still insured, most likely through the present owner (and in his/her name), so no way would I set one foot onto that property with a chain saw and intentions of cutting said tree. As the home is still insured, should some catastrophe occur, your loss would be at the present owners' insurance company's expense. 

While the listing agent might be seeming to be less than helpful, he/she has no fiduciary duty to reply/respond to a "neighbor" and, in fact, any improper advice they might provide could be used in a lawsuit against them, their company and the E&O insurance. Do try to understand that agent's side of the matter.


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## rayjay (May 11, 2017)

I would definitely call code enforcement. A few weeks back I browsed the various things that are contrary to Gwinnnett's code and dead trees that are a danger to structures was one of them. A simple www search on gwinnett code enforcement should get you started.


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## rayjay (May 11, 2017)

Also, the Gwinnett GIS would give you the current owner. Just do a search on your parcel number and then click on the other property.


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 11, 2017)

Capt Quirk said:


> As much as I hate to say it, this sounds like a good time to speak to a lawyer. They would know the route you should take to protect yourself.
> 
> See? I can stay on topic



^^^This^^^

Legal notification won't cost that much and is worth  infinite amounts in court, should it come to that. Plus, if the short sale doesn't happen before the tree and damage ever does, then the threat of a lean, further tying up the property always exist. 

These are things a good attorney will put in notice to BOA just to let them mull over their options.


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## ddgarcia (May 11, 2017)

model88_308 said:


> Since the house is now involved in a "short sale" BOA is not involved any further than holding the note and agreeing to the terms of the sale. The sale is still from the present owner (through BOA) to the prospective buyer. Perhaps you can locate the present owner through updated tax records.
> 
> The home is still insured, most likely through the present owner (and in his/her name), so no way would I set one foot onto that property with a chain saw and intentions of cutting said tree. As the home is still insured, should some catastrophe occur, your loss would be at the present owners' insurance company's expense.
> 
> While the listing agent might be seeming to be less than helpful, he/she has no fiduciary duty to reply/respond to a "neighbor" and, in fact, any improper advice they might provide could be used in a lawsuit against them, their company and the E&O insurance. Do try to understand that agent's side of the matter.



If it is for "short sale" it most likely is NO LONGER insured. Short sales usually happen when the owner is in default but before foreclosure. If the offer is high enough the bank will forego the foreclosure in favor of the short sale because it will cost them less in time effort and money. 

If the owner is in default then the insurance most likely has not been paid because as all of you that have financed a home the insurance is paid from your impound account. Default on loan default on impound account. Unless there is still carryover from last insurance renewal it will be uninsured property.

Don't think I'd want to take that chance myself.


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## MudDucker (May 11, 2017)

DannyW said:


> I have a problem and hopefully the wide audience here will help me solve it.
> 
> The house next door has been vacant for a year. From what I have been able to determine researching it on the internet, it's going through a 'short sale' process.
> 
> ...



Find the owner's name and address and send a certified letter notifying them of the dead tree and that you will hold them responsible should they fail to remove and it damages your house.


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## DannyW (May 11, 2017)

MudDucker said:


> Find the owner's name and address and send a certified letter notifying them of the dead tree and that you will hold them responsible should they fail to remove and it damages your house.



Yep...that's my dilemma...can't find a current address for the owner. That's why I contacted the real estate agent. I know they can't do anything, but I hoped they could provide the contact information.

Good advice about GIS...I use it all the time looking up potential hunting properties but it did not occur to me to use it to find the owner's address.

And I like the idea to contact the county code office...I think that may be next.

Definitely not cutting it down myself. I used to do that part time to support myself when I was a young guy, and this is too big of a job for my equipment, abilities....and age. It will have to be topped to prevent it from falling on something, and I ain't climbing that tree.


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## westcobbdog (May 11, 2017)

DannyW said:


> Yep...that's my dilemma...can't find a current address for the owner. That's why I contacted the real estate agent. I know they can't do anything, but I hoped they could provide the contact information.
> 
> Good advice about GIS...I use it all the time looking up potential hunting properties but it did not occur to me to use it to find the owner's address.
> 
> ...



GIS wont help find the current owner, just pointing you back to their current property they own.
The fine folks at BOa will keep it insured to protect their interests...first using the Owner escrow acct that has maybe 6 months or a year of insurance and taxes in it. 

I would call code enforcement about the unkept yard and dangerous tree and send BOA a registered letter warning them they are liable if said tree falls on your home. 

Send me the address and I will give you some scoop on the payoff and mortgage amount, unlike the listing agent. Its not too hard to return a call and give some info. So ignoring you is more bad biz than good, imo.


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## model88_308 (May 12, 2017)

ddgarcia said:


> If it is for "short sale" it most likely is NO LONGER insured. Short sales usually happen when the owner is in default but before foreclosure. If the offer is high enough the bank will forego the foreclosure in favor of the short sale because it will cost them less in time effort and money.
> 
> If the owner is in default then the insurance most likely has not been paid because as all of you that have financed a home the insurance is paid from your impound account. Default on loan default on impound account. Unless there is still carryover from last insurance renewal it will be uninsured property.
> 
> Don't think I'd want to take that chance myself.



As a realtor for more than 20yrs, your statements here are not correct. I have sold several such houses on "short sales" and all were still insured by the seller at closing.

Do you actually believe that the bank holding the mortgage on ANY property would allow the insurance to lapse? Not on your life! That's the only way to recoup their investment and unoccupied properties are far more prone to fires, etc.


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## Milkman (May 12, 2017)

If you can go ahead and buy the property while it is cheap.


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## Hooty Hoot (May 12, 2017)

Take pictures. Send picture to BOA in registered letter. Then call code enforcement.

If you can find out who insures the property, send them a registered letter and picture. Things will move quickly.


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## JustUs4All (May 12, 2017)

Because dangerous situations must be noticed to the responsible party, certified letters would be my first step, one to the owner of the property, one to the listing realtor, one to the bank holding the mortgage.  Property owner can be learned from the tax digest, mortgage holder can be learned from the Deed records, Realtor can be learned from the yard sign.

Contact with the code enforcement would follow immediately because having the problem taken care of before damage occurs to your property is far better than trying to collect damages after the fact.

If the tree overhangs the property line, I would consider having a bucket truck in to trim back the parts over my property if that would lessen the risk to my home.


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## rayjay (May 12, 2017)

Milkman said:


> If you can go ahead and buy the property while it is cheap.



THIS !!! 

I'm in a situation that it would be great if I could buy the property next door.


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## jimbo4116 (May 12, 2017)

Call your insurance agent.  Have them come out and take a look.  At least you will have your concerns documented.  Insurance Company may be able to get the ball rolling on removal by the owners/mortgage holder.


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## Wycliff (May 12, 2017)

A lot of good advise here, but if it falls on your house or property your insurance will still be the one responsible even if the other property has insurance . This is from experience.


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## j_seph (May 12, 2017)

PM sent


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## DannyW (May 12, 2017)

Update...I called the county Code and Quality of Life (CQOL) office a few minutes ago. They were EXTREMELY helpful. They took down all the information and according to the person at CQOL, they take care of locating the owner and putting them on notice for you. 

Unfortunately, it probably means the owner will get a citation for not maintaining the property. That was not my intent, and if the real estate agent had just returned my call with information of how to contact the owner, it could have been avoided.

It's an unintended consequence, but my homeowner's policy has a $1,000 deductible and I don't want to have to use my policy.

Thanks for all the advice.


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## one hogman (May 12, 2017)

Hooty Hoot said:


> Take pictures. Send picture to BOA in registered letter. Then call code enforcement.
> 
> If you can find out who insures the property, send them a registered letter and picture. Things will move quickly.



Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!!


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## ribber (May 13, 2017)

A large limb fell from a tree on property line between me and my neighbor and damaged his outbuilding. He hinted that he wanted me to file on my homeowners (even though the tree was technically both of ours). The tree was not dead or diseased. Just a freak accident on a windy day. He thought the tree was on my property because it does appear that way because of where previous owner installed a fence @10 yds from line, but it actually sits directly on line.
My agent told me that the damaged party's insurance pays regardless of whose tree it is, unless there is documented proof that the tree was dead/diseased and the tree's 'owner' had been notified and failed to remedy. Not sure if this varies by policy, or is law.


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## westcobbdog (May 13, 2017)

DannyW said:


> Update...I called the county Code and Quality of Life (CQOL) office a few minutes ago. They were EXTREMELY helpful. They took down all the information and according to the person at CQOL, they take care of locating the owner and putting them on notice for you.
> 
> Unfortunately, it probably means the owner will get a citation for not maintaining the property. That was not my intent, and if the real estate agent had just returned my call with information of how to contact the owner, it could have been avoided.
> 
> ...



The owner of the short sale is broke. They wont be working on the house anymore much less paying any sort of code enforcement fine.


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## model88_308 (May 13, 2017)

westcobbdog said:


> The owner of the short sale is broke. They wont be working on the house anymore much less paying any sort of code enforcement fine.



I'd tend to agree with you, but the answer might be yes & no. It may be different there, but here when city/county codes has to do any clean-up on a house, that bill is attached to the tax bill which will then be cleared at final closing.

Even on bank owned foreclosures this can happen, although most banks (mortgage companies) will try to avoid those added costs. 

I certainly agree though they it would likely be a chilly day in Hades before the "seller" paid anything at this point.


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## jimbo4116 (May 13, 2017)

ribber said:


> A large limb fell from a tree on property line between me and my neighbor and damaged his outbuilding. He hinted that he wanted me to file on my homeowners (even though the tree was technically both of ours). The tree was not dead or diseased. Just a freak accident on a windy day. He thought the tree was on my property because it does appear that way because of where previous owner installed a fence @10 yds from line, but it actually sits directly on line.
> My agent told me that the damaged party's insurance pays regardless of whose tree it is, unless there is documented proof that the tree was dead/diseased and the tree's 'owner' had been notified and failed to remedy. Not sure if this varies by policy, or is law.



Had this same thing happen.  My insurance paid my damage, neighbors insurance paid his.  The insurance adjuster said unless the tree was identified and documented as being a hazard each party was responsible for his own damage.  That said your insurance co. has a vested interest in determining the condition of the tree and its potential to cause damage to your property.


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## JustUs4All (May 13, 2017)

ribber said:


> A large limb fell from a tree on property line between me and my neighbor and damaged his outbuilding. He hinted that he wanted me to file on my homeowners (even though the tree was technically both of ours). The tree was not dead or diseased. Just a freak accident on a windy day. He thought the tree was on my property because it does appear that way because of where previous owner installed a fence @10 yds from line, but it actually sits directly on line.
> My agent told me that the damaged party's insurance pays regardless of whose tree it is, unless there is documented proof that the tree was dead/diseased and the tree's 'owner' had been notified and failed to remedy. Not sure if this varies by policy, or is law.



This is the law, generally.  This is also why notice should be given to all other parties asap.  This will give your a shot at recovering your deductible if your insurance company has to pay.  No  notice, no liability.


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## DannyW (May 14, 2017)

Yes...I have had this happen 40 years ago. Not sure if the laws are the same but back then if the property owner knows the tree is a hazard (through you officially notifing them), or because it was something they should have reasonably known though observation, all damages, on both sides of the fence are on the owner of the tree (or their insurance company).

If it was a healthy tree, and the damages are a result of a storm, their damages stops at the fence line.  

I want to make sure they know that their tree is a hazard.


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## karen936 (May 14, 2017)

good deal, I was going to say if you know there name
you can look up in the county clerks office public records
and see if they have a current address for them do to les pens
or other legal doc's.


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## JohnK (May 17, 2017)

Odds are the person who buys this house is not going to want to pay someone to remove the tree even if he can. His insurance definitely is not going to pay for the removal. I would assume he'll just let your insurance pay you if it falls. Just sayin'


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## whchunter (May 22, 2017)

*Little Insurance*

You could tie the tree off with a rope and come along to assure the tree doesn't fall your direction........


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## donald-f (May 29, 2017)

I had a dead tree fall across my boat breaking it in half from a vacant lot next door. I went to court house and found out who owned the property and contacted the owner telling him what happened and he did not want to pay for damage. I did research and found that if you have dead or diseased trees on your property they must be removed. I had him served to appear in court and he settled before court paying me for the damage and for cleaning up the trees from my yard. If the bank has control of the property they are the ones you need to contact.


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## DannyW (Jun 28, 2017)

An update for those who are interested…

Unexpectedly, the owner transferred the property title to her ex-husband from 5 years ago. The county tax records gave me his name and address. A registered letter, along with photos, has been sent to him. But here is the problem.

I called my insurance agent to see if they would get involved. This would seem to be a logical approach to me…it will be much less expensive to take the tree down than it will be to repair the damage if it falls. And it will damage something if it falls. But the agent told me that they would only become involved after damage has occurred. They would not take preemptive action.

We discussed it a little further and the agent told me that since the house has been vacant for over a year, the insurance rates would be far higher than normal since it is unoccupied, and that it’s unlikely the owner has a current policy. Furthermore, the mortgage company (whoever that may be…I still haven’t found it) definitely would have insurance on the property, but it would likely be a limited policy just covering the dwelling itself. The limited policy would not include things like coverage for damages caused by dead trees, etc.

So despite doing everything that I am legally required to do, it appears that I am out of luck, and my $1,000 homeowner’s deductible, if this tree falls on my house. I always have the option of going to court in an attempt to get my $1,000 reimbursed, but that requires a lawyer which might cost more than I would gain.

It sucks, but I guess life is not always fair.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jun 28, 2017)

Insurance agents, as sad as it sounds, will not do anything to effect the outcome of their year end bonuses. If you want to know where your Insurance "company" actually stands on the liability and mitigation of this issue then contact the company via their 800 number directly. 

They may very well have a different take on this situation.


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## JustUs4All (Jun 28, 2017)

JustUs4All said:


> Because dangerous situations must be noticed to the responsible party, certified letters would be my first step, one to the owner of the property, one to the listing realtor, one to the bank holding the mortgage.  Property owner can be learned from the tax digest, mortgage holder can be learned from the Deed records, Realtor can be learned from the yard sign.





JustUs4All said:


> ....notice should be given to all other parties asap.  This will give your a shot at recovering your deductible if your insurance company has to pay.  No  notice, no liability.



If you have given notice to all three and you have to use your insurance the deductible you wish to recover is well within the limits of Small Claims Court or whatever they call it now.  The filing fee was under $50 last time I was there and you can represent yourself.


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## rayjay (Jun 28, 2017)

Have you talked to code enforcement again ?


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## DannyW (Jul 1, 2017)

rayjay said:


> Have you talked to code enforcement again ?



I have spoken to them four times. It seems that they cannot legally come onto the property in question...they can only act on violations that can be observed from the street. And since the tree is in the back yard you can't really see it from the street. I offered - twice - to let them come into my back yard and see the tree from that vantage point. All they had to do is call me and I would meet them at my house. I am still waiting on the phone call.

So while that initially seemed to be a reasonable path to resolution, it has pretty much reached a dead end.

Someone suggested that I send the real estate lady a registered letter. This might be a good idea because it should obligate her to disclose the information to potential buyers, which in turn could cause the yet-to-be-determined mortgage holder to take action...maybe.

I just wish I had a way to determine the mortgage holder.


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## JustUs4All (Jul 1, 2017)

the mortgage holder can be learned from the grantor-grantee records at the courthouse.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 1, 2017)

DannyW said:


> I have spoken to them four times. It seems that they cannot legally come onto the property in question...they can only act on violations that can be observed from the street. And since the tree is in the back yard you can't really see it from the street. I offered - twice - to let them come into my back yard and see the tree from that vantage point. All they had to do is call me and I would meet them at my house. I am still waiting on the phone call.
> 
> So while that initially seemed to be a reasonable path to resolution, it has pretty much reached a dead end.
> 
> ...



Perhaps. I am not certain a real estate agent is bound by any disclosures other than obtained from the seller or the buyer.


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