# Optima v2 all over the place!



## jp94 (Sep 26, 2016)

My optima v2 is driving me crazy.  I have tried hornady sabots in 250gr, power belts in 223gr, 245gr, 295gr, shockwaves in 250gr.  I have also tried pellets in triple 7 and pyrodex pellets.  Gun is designed for magnum load and that's what I am using (150gr/3 pellets).  I have shot it 75 plus times.  The last time I got it sighted in at 100yds right in the bullseye.  2nd shot touching the first.  Third was 6" low, 4th was 3" high and 4" right.  5th shot was 4" low and 2" left.  6th shot was you guessed it dead center of the bullseye.  I swabbed the barrel between each shot and seated each sabot with the same pressure and same way each time.  So what the heck can I do to get more consistency from this gun?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## RockyMountainBasser (Sep 27, 2016)

Are you cleaning between each shot?  If not, try that.  Take a single wet and a single dry, and then pop off a primer.  Load everything up and fire it.  Repeat. 

My gun was doing the same thing, and I started doing this very method, and it was perfect after that.  Sighted it in just like a regular rifle.


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## BarnesAddict (Sep 27, 2016)

If it were me, I'd get the accessory breech plug to shoot BH209, then load it with 110grs volume and stuff a Barnes 290gr T-EZ down the barrel.  In very warm climates, a WIN 209 primer may work.  However, Western recommends using a magnum primer, such as the CCI209M or Federal 209A.

Maximum loads sometimes don't give the best accuracy.  If you intend to use pellets, drop down a little with your charge.  You can buy T7M pellets that are equal to 60grs each.  Try 2 pellets (120grs) and it may bring you the groups you're looking for.


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## ryanh487 (Sep 27, 2016)

Check your action screws.

If you have a scope on it, check your scope mounts.  Also, try shooting with irons to see if there are similar issues and then go from there.  I've gotten bad scopes before.

Lastly, what's always a possibility, is a flinch.  Those 150 grain loads are stout, and you might be subconsciously rushing the shot after the first couple without realizing it.


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## Chase4556 (Sep 27, 2016)

Double check your scope. I'd suggest removing it, and reinstalling. Using blue locktite and making sure everything is tightened down properly. Bore site, and get dialed in at 50yds, then move to 100. Clean after every shot, foul the bore, then take your time on the shot. My CVA wolf likes the hornady 240gr XTP sabots, over two pellets(100gr) of T7, and a T7 primer. 

Drop the 150gr loads. Max load doesn't mean its more accurate, go with a 100gr load of T7 or something of the sort. I really think you may be having scope issues(if you have one, and not iron sites) with how the shots seem to be all over the place.


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## stabow (Sep 27, 2016)

I'm thinking a scope problem also 
And would drop charge to 100 grains or less.


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## jp94 (Sep 27, 2016)

I will definitely try reducing the pellets to 100gr and if I can find it possibly changing the breech plug to shoot BH209.  I thought the same thing as others have mentioned about the scope.  I took the original scope from cabelas back and told them I thought it was defective.  I now have the bushnell ML scope on the rifle and get the same results.   I will remove it once more and use the loctite on the screws just as an added measure.  I am using a lead sled so I don't think I am flinching.  Is it possible that the mounts (durasight Dead On ) are causing the scope to flex from over tighting? Just a thought since I don't have anything to measure the amount of torque on the screws.  I do swab the barrel between shots with one wet patch then a dry one, however I do not foul the barrel after the dry swabbing.  I guess this could be causing the variations in shots, but after the dry patch I would think it would not have that effect, but I will give it a try.  This is getting to be an expensive hobby. I owned a previous CVA Kodiak that was a real tack driver and wished I had never gotten rid of it.  

On another note is it possible that there is a defect in the rifle?  I know that this is highly unlikely but it would almost make me feel better to know that I am not going crazy. If I cant get it dialed in this weekend I may just cut my losses  and buy/trade for another ML.

Thanks for all the suggestions.


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## stabow (Sep 27, 2016)

JP keep us posted on the progress .


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## ryanh487 (Sep 27, 2016)

Check the scope base and make sure it's mounted solid, and check the screws that hold the action and barrel into the stock.  if those get loose, accuracy can be all over the place.


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## jp94 (Sep 27, 2016)

Thanks again.  I plan on taking the whole gun apart tonight and check everything twice.


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## georgia_home (Sep 27, 2016)

I'd suggest loose powder in the 90-100 range.

Also, check your target, look for key holing. Had my muzzy find some loads that it just didn't like. And they keyed.


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## Roadking65 (Sep 28, 2016)

I also suggest using less powder. My TC Hawken replica likes 70gr. of loose powder and drives tacks now. Before I was trying 2 pellets like you and a myriad of bullets. Had same results too. All over the target. When I tried less powder and went with DiamondBlack loose along with a slightly larger roundball all of a sudden I'm ready for season!

Don't give up. There are lots of guys here who helped me and I'm sure will give you ideas you maybe hadn't thought of.

RK


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## WNewman (Sep 28, 2016)

I had my scope that came with my CVA Wolf fail the second year.  Same story, got it to shoot the same spot once or twice, then it would jump 3-6 inches in random directions at 50 yds. 

New scope, now it's much more consistent.


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## jp94 (Sep 28, 2016)

Got the gun taken apart and did not find anything loose or that would lead me to believe they were moving. Removed the forearm, barrel, breech plug, scope and rings. Bore sighted the gun again.

Hopefully I will be able to shoot Friday afternoon or sometime Saturday.  I got some white hot pellets, pyrodex and triple seven to throw in the mix along with different sabots. I am going to mix it up until I run out or get it dialed in.


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## BarnesAddict (Sep 29, 2016)

http://www.cva.com/CVA-store.php?shop=Black Horn QR Breech Plugs

Many of the larger stores should be carrying the BH breech plug for BH209.


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## kinross (Sep 29, 2016)

BarnesAddict said:


> If it were me, I'd get the accessory breech plug to shoot BH209, then load it with 110grs volume and stuff a Barnes 290gr T-EZ down the barrel.  In very warm climates, a WIN 209 primer may work.  However, Western recommends using a magnum primer, such as the CCI209M or Federal 209A.
> 
> Maximum loads sometimes don't give the best accuracy.  If you intend to use pellets, drop down a little with your charge.  You can buy T7M pellets that are equal to 60grs each.  Try 2 pellets (120grs) and it may bring you the groups you're looking for.



Like BarnesAddict says, BH 209 and a CCI 209M primer. Clean up is easy with Hoppes # 9. I shoot 100 grains of powder and the  240 grn XTP is a tack driver. The TC 240 grn Shockwaves shoot basically through the same hole.


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## ryanh487 (Sep 29, 2016)

Random possibility on the powder note... you have been loading all the pellets with the shiny side toward the breech, right?  Are they new pellets or old that you've had sitting around? Could be inconsistant ignition/powder burning.  It should already take 209 magnum primers off the shelf.

  My optima really likes the white hots and patterns well with 3 50 grain pellets of the stuff.


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## GaFlyGuy (Sep 29, 2016)

Have you found your shot sabots down range ? Look to see if you can find them and make sure all the petals are on them. You may need to use a higher pressure rated sabot for magnum loads. Like others said I would drop down to 100g. I shoot Hornady 250g XTP with crush rib sabots and 100g of white hots out of my accura v2, it drives tacks at 100y


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## blocky (Sep 30, 2016)

You have gotten lots of good advice already. I also think it is a powder problem. The use of loose powder allows you to  start low and work up to an accurate load. That is how you find what your rifle likes. Magnum loads are not needed. You get little added velocity but a lot more punishment.
I think most guys will tell you they use less than 100 grains in their loads. Good luck, hope you find a load that works for you.


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## jp94 (Oct 1, 2016)

Well i shot again today and mixed different types of propellant with different sabots and even changed brand of primers 3 times.  I finally got a consistent group at 50yds.  I still need to back it up to 100 yds and see what happens then, but it is much improved over my previous outings.  I ended up with 100grs of white hot pellets, 245 grain powerbelt and Winchester 209 primers. It seemed to settle down with this combination.  I hope that is still the case when I move out to 100yds tomorrow afternoon.  I would like to thank everyone for there recomendations and help.  I will update when I get to move out to 100yds.


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## jp94 (Oct 3, 2016)

Got her sighted in as best I could at 100 yards.  6 shots in a 2.75 inch circle.  I guess that will do for now.  I ran out of sabots or I would have tweeked it a little more.  I will work on it a little more this week to see if I can get the group down a little tighter.  Never thought it would make such a difference just mixing primers, powder combinations, but I am a believer now. 

Thanks to everyone for there help with this issue.


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## GSUQUAD (Oct 17, 2016)

I had similar issues with mine.  Just bought it never shot it before, thought it would be simple since I handload and drive tacks with my rifles.

Most shots were within an inch left or right, and when they flew further I usually noticed I pulled that way before the shot.  

However, every shot had a random vertical string from mostly zero to 6 inches high.  After shooting 32 rounds I by luck adjusted the rifle on the bags much differently and held the rifle differently.  Bam... 3 shot clover leaf at 100.  

Went home and did some reading about vertical stringing in muzzle loader and shotgun slugs and read an article about how the recoil is different than with high power center fire.  They tend to muzzle flip more.  Bout what I got out of that article is that's likely the problem I had while I tried to shoot it like my 308 or other rifles.  

I ended up placing the front sand bag all the way up to the trigger guard, giving it a heavily unbalanced feel toward the front.  I also lightly placed my handing in the top of the scope above the sand bag.  I didn't try to force these down with the hold.  Low and behold it suddenly shot consistent 1-2 inch groups.  

Took a doe at 120 last night with it 

Hope this helps, a simple change in how I held it seemed to really tighten it up.


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## GSUQUAD (Oct 17, 2016)

My theory is that the barrel, while sandbagged further up the forend, was jumping off the bag, causing the vertical strings.  By moving the bag closer to the trigger, it essentially made the barrel a much longer, heavier lever to throw upward, therefore reducing the amount of upward flip.


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## J Gilbert (Oct 17, 2016)

Just read through this after having 2 guys that I hunt with had the same issue with their Optimas recently- they called CVA and were told that it was likely the scope rings and that they recommend to only shoot 100gr of powder in them.  Either way, they were both sent new scopes and rings to try, and I'll have them try your method from the bench- they were using a lead sled before.

Have you tested accuracy from a more field-type rest other than the doe you shot? Just wondering how that would effect accuracy as well.


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## ryanh487 (Oct 17, 2016)

jp94 said:


> Got her sighted in as best I could at 100 yards.  6 shots in a 2.75 inch circle.  I guess that will do for now.  I ran out of sabots or I would have tweeked it a little more.  I will work on it a little more this week to see if I can get the group down a little tighter.  Never thought it would make such a difference just mixing primers, powder combinations, but I am a believer now.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for there help with this issue.



Be sure to buy the exact same brand, style, and weight sabot unless you want to sight it in all over again!

Glad you got it to calm down, those things get tiresome to shoot after a while.


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## GSUQUAD (Oct 17, 2016)

I made sure to rest the muzzle loader on the shooting rail and and hold it just like I did at the range.  I assumed it would work in the field if I held it the same way, and it did.  It went right where I aimed it.    

On a side note I thought I missed her at first.  No blood, no hair.  Found her piled up 30 yards away with hardly a visible entry and exit wounds and no blood. 

Tonight I made a set of "shooting sticks" after I watched four does at 150 on a cut in the pines I don't have a stand in.  I was waiting on a buck but noticed the hand wittled slingshot style shooting stick I carved was too unstable.  I made these to give me the same rest and more stable and adjustable for wherever I sit on the ground


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## flatheadpatrol (Oct 18, 2016)

Ley me preface: I am a rookie with the black powder/muzzle loader. 
I've had a CVA Optima Mag for 7-8 years. I called CVA due to the various recommendations on load combos. They fellow I spoke to at CVA 7-8 years ago recommended 2 pellets, a 245 grain sabot, and 209 primer. I don't really get into it as I might get to use it one year, then not the next, but that combo has been good for me.


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## Castandcall (Oct 24, 2016)

Even though its a magnum gun the paper inside my pack of Pyrodex pellets says don't use 3 in your gun because they may be more than 50 grains each. Told a guy at work this once after he blew up his rifle using them and wanted to sue his gun maker. He felt like a fool when I showed him the paper that comes in the pack.


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## Castandcall (Oct 24, 2016)

Straight from the website.


MAXIMUM LOAD WARNING

45 and 50 CALIBER RIFLE:
 45 Caliber Pellets come in one size: 50 grain
 50 Caliber Pellets come in two (2) sizes:
 50 grain volume equivalent which equals 50 grains of loose powder by volume.
 30 grain volume equivalent which equals 30 grains of loose powder by volume.

The maximum load per shot should never exceed total Pellets containing more than 100 grains volume equivalent. That means, no more than:
 45 Caliber 1) Two (2) 50 grain Pellets 
 2) Three (3) 44/45 caliber 30 grain
 50 Caliber 1) Three (3) 30 grain Pellets, or
 2) Two (2) 50 grain Pellets, or
 3) One (1) 50 grain Pellet and one (1) 30 grain Pellet

 54 CALIBER RIFLE:
 54 Caliber Pyrodex Pellets come in one size only:
 60 grain volume equivalent which equals 60 grains of loose powder by volume.

The maximum load per shot should never exceed 120 grains (2) Pellets. 

44/45 CALIBER PISTOL:
 The maximum load per each revolver chamber should never exceed one (1) revolver Pellet. Exceeding maximum load may cause damage to the firearm and cause personal injury or death to the shooter or bystanders.

* At no time should the shooter exceed the firearm manufacturers recommended maximum load. If there is a question concerning the firearm maximum load, please contact the firearm manufacturer for guidance


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