# M70 "problem"...



## Niner (Jan 26, 2012)

What does this sound like to you?

I have two M70's one very old, and one new one (both 30-06).

Before I even mounted a scope on the new one, I wanted to load up some ammo for when I get a chance to take it to the range.  The way I like to set my FL die is to remove the firing pin from the rifle (real easy on the M70), and adjust my die until the bolt closes on the sized brass "like butter".  I've been doing this with my old rifle for many years, and it is a sub-MOA shooter.

Well, I was having a hard time getting the die adjusted so the bolt would close without resistance on the new M70.  The light-bulb finally came on and I realized that something must be wrong, as the FL die was well over 1/2 turn from touching the shell holder.....and the brass still was not fitting "right".

I pulled the old one out and set the FL die for it, and then tried that shell in the new one.....the bolt would barely close.  I then took a factory-load and tried it, the bolt will close, but with a bit of resistance.  Odd!  

I think I know what the problem is.....but what do y'all think?


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## ScottD (Jan 26, 2012)

It could be a lot of things.

Does the bolt close "like butter" with no cartridge?

If that is ok - then it is probably something to do with the chamber.  The chamber may be out of round or not concentric with the bolt face.  It may have a rough spot in the chamber - or the chamber is cut short or short throated.(not likely)
Also check the bolt face to make sure a shell will seat fully in the bolt face.(no metal chips or gunk)

If factory ammo is hard to chamber but empty the bolt closes fine - then look to the chamber - i assume you cleaned it first right? no chips in there?


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## rayjay (Jan 26, 2012)

You need to make or buy a tool that let's you measure the shoulder bump. See pic.

As for the problem you are currently having you should make sure the ejector can be pushed in below the face of the bolt. It's not uncommon for the ejector to have it's travel limited by something so it can't fully slide back into the bolt.

If this rifle has a fixed ejector then ignore this advice


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## Niner (Jan 26, 2012)

The bolt closes fine on an empty chamber.

I cleaned the chamber with a "bottle brush", and even looked in there with a very bright light....no "trash" in the chamber.

I can't see any "trash" on the bolt face either.

I called Winchester, and told them what was going on.  They advised I probably need to send it in for them to have a look at it.  I hate having to do that, it's a shame to spend so much on a new rifle (ext weather model) and then have to send it in for service before even firing one shot. 

I guess I have a pretty high standard, comparing it to my 
"custom" 1962 model M70.


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## jglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

see if anyone close has a set of go/ nogo gauges for the 06. If you were closer I'd lend you mine

be very interesting to see how it feels closing on a go gauge.

is this a control round feed or push feed bolt


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## Niner (Jan 26, 2012)

Both are controlled feed.
One built in '62, the other built in '09 (but was NIB).


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## jglenn (Jan 27, 2012)

ScottD probably has it covered

short chamber or chamber is way off in relation to bolt face


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## Niner (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, she's at Winchester (Browning) now.
Hopefully they'll correct the problem in short order.


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## Niner (Mar 25, 2012)

Update....
I talked to the repairs folks at Winchester\Browning a couple of weeks ago.
They are going to replace the rifle. However, they said they'd have to wait until production of that model gets started for this year.....which should be in a few more weeks (the folks at the repair center did not know exactly when that would be).


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## Niner (Jul 25, 2014)

Update......sortof.....
The folks at Wincherster did send me a new rifle, but they didn't tell me what was going on with the old one.

I've been in and out of the hospital for the last few years....with several major back surgeries.....and just haven't felt up to playing with the new rifle until recently...mentally or physically.

This one is not as bad as the first one (thank God), but with the  firing pin removed this one closes a little "stiff" on a factory round.  Not bad, but enough to cause me to start looking into it and scratching my head.

I finally had "a light come on", and I colored the projectile on that factory round with a sharpie.  When I chamber that round and then pull it out there is a clear spot on the "painted" section of that round that is rubbed off.  

Not sure what this condition is called, but I don't think it is a "good thing".

Wonder how much a gunsmith would charge to fix this....I'd rather not have to send it back to Winchester --- yet again.


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## Steve762us (Jul 25, 2014)

Short leade?


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## Barry Duggan (Jul 25, 2014)

Is the mark all the way around the bullet, or just on one side? You will get a mark on the bullet while chambering a round.


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## Niner (Jul 25, 2014)

The mark does not go all the way around the bullet.


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## tom ga hunter (Jul 30, 2014)

the mark looks like the bullet is hitting the side of the receiver when you are extracting the round.  There should be a series of pings where the bullet is hitting the lands.


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## Niner (Jul 31, 2014)

I took both rifles down to a gunsmith.

The first thing he did was to pull out is set of go/no go gauges and check both rifles.  Both of them closed on the Go gauge, and failed to close on the No Go gauge.

Then he tried the new gun with several different brands of ammo, and some of his own reloads.  These all fit fine, some with just a bit of .....not "force"...maybe "pressure" would be a better word, on the bolt handle.

The upshot of the  visit was that in his opinion...and it makes sense to me....the old rifle is 50+ years old, and it's chamber is a little on the long side of spec., and the new rifle...being NEW...is a bit on the tight side of spec.  He said he COULD ream out the chamber of the new rifle a fuzz, but he would HIGHLY recommend against that.  His best recommendation is to shoot them both....a bunch....and enjoy them.      And that's what I'm gonna do.  I guess I was just being a worry wart....but "something" was different about the new rifle, and I was not comfortable with that "difference".  Now I know it was all much ado about nothing.  Thankfully.

SO, I'll keep handloading for both guns.  I haven't decided yet if I'm gonna FL resize for the new rifle and use those loads for both guns....OR I may FL size for the new one and the old one separately, and label the boxes for which gun the loads are for.

Seeing as how I'm not  a bench rest shooter, and I'm loading primarily for hunting....I'll probably just size all of my brass for the new rifle.  That way they will fit either one.


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## Big7 (Jul 31, 2014)

Get you a RUGER.

Win. makes lever guns..


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## returntoarchery (Aug 1, 2014)

I've a New FN  M70 and it has a tight chamber and will shoot lights out. The tight chamber is a GOOD thing.

I have 3 270 Win rifles. I load for each individually and all 3 have separate marked boxes of cartridges.


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## BriarPatch99 (Aug 1, 2014)

Niner ... what brand, type dies are you using??


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Aug 1, 2014)

Agree with Returntoarchery. A tight chamber is a good thing. Shoot it. 

My FN-made Model 70 is a little on the right side but not like what you're experiencing. I got mine nearly 4 years ago now, though.


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## Niner (Aug 7, 2014)

Two sets of dies.  LEE and RCBS.  The LEEs are staying, and the RCBS dies are going on eBay.  I do not care for the RCBS ones.


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## BriarPatch99 (Aug 7, 2014)

> Well, I was having a hard time getting the die adjusted so the bolt would close without resistance on the new M70. The light-bulb finally came on and I realized that something must be wrong, as the FL die was well over 1/2 turn from touching the shell holder.....and the brass still was not fitting "right".



This was the reason I asked about the dies ... normally the dies should be touching the shell holder ...


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## Bill Mc (Aug 7, 2014)

Tight chambers can mean, "brass last longer"


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