# Mathews dry fire.....results



## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 21, 2006)

Hey yall,

    I posted on here earlier that I had been bowfishing and had a nock break on a fishing arrow and my Mathews Outback dry fired and ruined the cables, cable wheels, and cam.

    I took it to my local authorized Mathews dealer, and the results are $171 dollars in repairs.  No help from Mathews on the issue.

    Looking for opinions on this,

        Should I be upset that my $650 bow could not handle a dry fire?  I know a bow is not supposed to be dry fired, but nocks do break.  Am I out of line to think that Mathews should have backed up my bow and fixed it?  Is this really just my fault?  Should a $650 dollar bow blow up after just one dry fire?

    Yall fire away and let me know what you think.  BTW, I have written this letter to Mathews to get their take on it.

_Dear sir or madam,

    I was writing to express my dissappointment in my Mathews outback bow.  I bought mathews as I felt that it would be absolutely the best bow I could own.  I had owned an older Zmax I believe, and I really liked it.
    I took my bow out bowfishing, and while I was shooting, the bow came apart.  I examined the pieces, it had torn the cam, the bus cable wheels, and the cables themselves.  Upon closer scrutiny, I found my muzzy fishing arrow also had a broken nock.
    I am assuming that the broken nock on the arrow was responsible for a dry fire.  I know the bow is not designed to shoot without an arrow, but I also felt like it should be built well enough to handle that type of eventuality.  A broken nock is not uncommon, and I was really dissappointed that the bow was completely messed up by this one incident.
    The bow was taken to Arrowhead Archery, here in Seffner Florida, a licensed Mathews dealer.  The end result is $171 dollars in repairs, and no concessions on Mathews part as far as my situation is concerned.  When I took my bow in, I really felt like Mathews was going to take care of my problem, but apparently the responsibility is mine?
     I have been a loyal Mathews customer, but really wish that the company would stand behind the bow on this issue, especially considering the premium we hunters pay to have the best bows.

     Looking forward to any response, 
        Sincerely, Jason Hubbard_


Thanks for your opinions,
MBD


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## NorthGaBowhunter (Jun 21, 2006)

Go to the mathews forum and talk to the techs yourself.Bob jenkins is one of them and see what they tell you. good luck


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## reylamb (Jun 21, 2006)

I have not read the warranty, but I do know Mathews typically takes care of even dry fires under warranty, even though it is not their fault.  The truth is, it usually comes down to the dealer in cases like this, not Mathews.

However, I know most of the manufacturers do not warranty against dry fires, and who could blame them.  The fact is that there is a ton of energy stored in compounds and without an arrow to put that energy into, it must go somewhere.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am not sure anyone should expect a company to warranty a problem that they did not cause, they were not the ones that dry-fired the bow.  While it does stink, it was not a manufacturing defect.


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## gobblinglawyer (Jun 21, 2006)

I had the same thing happen.  Only once I called Mathews I found out that it was the dealer that was sticking it to me and that Mathews hadn't charged the dealer for the warranty work parts.

I'd call Mathews customer service.

(Also just becaue the nock was broken does not mean it was the nock's fault.  It could have been a number of things.)


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## Trizey (Jun 21, 2006)

reylamb said:
			
		

> I have not read the warranty, but I do know Mathews typically takes care of even dry fires under warranty, even though it is not their fault.  The truth is, it usually comes down to the dealer in cases like this, not Mathews.



This has been my experience also.  I was shooting with a guy last year at 3D and something happened at full draw and the bow "blew up".   Very danagerous situation and there the 3 of us were looking at each other like  

He took his bow back to the deal(Benton's Shooter Supply) and the replaced both limbs and string and cable, which was the only damage.  Had it back within the week.

What was Mathew's response to the letter you sent them?


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## Arrow3 (Jun 21, 2006)

Id be TICKED off!!!  Thats crazy to pay that after you had to pay so much for the bow..Mathews ought to cover that under warrenty.


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## Trizey (Jun 21, 2006)

Arrow3 said:
			
		

> Id be TICKED off!!!  Thats crazy to pay that after you had to pay so much for the bow..Mathews ought to cover that under warrenty.



Why would that tick you off, because it happened?  It has nothing to do with Mathews even though they normally take care of it.


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## reylamb (Jun 21, 2006)

Arrow3 said:
			
		

> Id be TICKED off!!!  Thats crazy to pay that after you had to pay so much for the bow..Mathews ought to cover that under warrenty.


Why?  The Mathews warranty covers manufacturer defects only:



> YOUR MATHEWS BOW IS WARRANTED AGAINST DEFECTS IN MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP TO THE ORIGINAL OWNER FOR THE LIFE OF THE ORIGINAL OWNER. THIS INCLUDES ALL BOW PARTS EXCEPT THE STRING, BUSS CABLE, CABLE SLIDE, RUBBER STRING SUPPRESSORS :FINGER" AND COSMETIC APPEARANCE(CHIPS, DINGS, SCRATCHES) CAUSED BY NORMAL USE AND WEAR. BOWS SENT BACK TO MATHEWS WITHOUT A PRE-ISSUED RETURN AUTHORIZATION NUMBER WILL BE REFUSED, ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES, WRITTEN OR IMPLIED, ARE VOID WITH ANY ALTERATIONS TO THE BOW.



Dry fires are not normal us and wear or a manufacturer defect.

As I said, Mathews normally covers even dryfires under warranty, and I commend them for that.........but if the local dealers do not contact them they can't.


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## NorthGaBowhunter (Jun 21, 2006)

Look the bow was dryfired period. weather the nock was cracked or not is not the manufacters problem. maybe they will help him out, I hope they will


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## Lthomas (Jun 21, 2006)

All most 100% of the time Mathews will waranty the bow even if it was the fault of the shooter for a dry fire. I have seen a lot of situations where a Pro shop will see a profit rather than contact Mathews. I have also seen pro shops contact mathews to get new parts that are covered under waranty. The parts come back to the pro shop and the pro shop charges a 50 dollar per hour labor charge. I would not be ticked off at mathews over this. I would be red hot with the dealer.


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## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 21, 2006)

No help from mathews, guess I am stuck.

Here is Mr. Jenkins Response.

Jason, a broken nock on an arrow is not a cause for a warranty issue,
our warranty covers manufactures defects and a busted nock on an arrow
is not a bow manufactures defect. Our warranty covers defects in our
workmanship or materials to the original owner of the bow. Just a side
note: some times a bow can with stand a dry fire and other times it
blows apart in many pieces, when the bow is at full draw there is over
400 pounds of pressure on the cable alone and if the bow is dry fired
all of that weight transfers into the string and cable and that is a lot
of energy. It states in the owners manual that dry fires are not covered
under warranty. Thanks


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## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 21, 2006)

SO...........hope yall are buying the $650 dollar nocks for your arrows, or you might be paying for all new parts for your bow like me.

     I agree with yall about the manufacturer warranting dry fires.  HOWEVER, I think it was a broken nock, not positive it wasn't a problem with the bow.  In any case, how about this....

    How much would it cost mathews to replace these parts for me, less the labor?  $5, $10, any guesses????

     My opinion is the company should have said "This is not a warranty covered issue, but we value your business and want to make it right."  That would certainly be nice of a company to go the extra mile.

     Anyhow, I will pay the money, and I will try and find a bow next time that can stand up to some abuse and not fly apart.  Can't be betting $171 dollars everytime I pull the bow back, that could get expensive!

MBD


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## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 21, 2006)

Good point about the dealer as well, who really is to blame here?  Hard to say.  Like Reylamb said, "it does stink."

     I will try and contact Mathews to see if they have been contacted by the dealer regarding this issue, as yall have pointed out.  Maybe I will get somewhere with that, who knows.

    Thanks for your opinions!

MBD


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## Just 1 More (Jun 21, 2006)

Since w elive in the same area (kind of) Do you mind telling me who the dealer is? 
PM me if you don't want to post it here,, if you really don't want to tell me... I'll just ask Travis


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## Alan in GA (Jun 21, 2006)

*sidenote for safety....*

try to check your nocks often. I do when I hear an arrow "click" when hitting the target where other arrows are imbedded. I have found cracked nocks before. Better than finding them with a dryfire.
Dryfireing is a risk that any compound bow user takes. Lots of energy in those limbs and cables. I think anyone is capable of a dryfire however they 'do it'. Care and attention will limit the possibility, but not totally guarantee against one. 
I've done it. I did it to my brand new bow, a PSE. Being a NEW string, I'm guessing the string had some newness 'strech' in it and cushioned the shock some.
Felt like a DOLT for days. Axles appear straight, limbs show no cracks,,but there is a tad of 'doubt' wondering if a micro crack is somewhere. But you know, I figure it's MY FAULT, and I'm the one who will suffer the consequences.
Nothing is new for long.
Alan in GA.


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## Trizey (Jun 21, 2006)

In all honesty, take it to a dealer and don't tell them that a nock broke(this is not their problem), be creative when you are telling them you were on safari when at full draw the cable broke.


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## Dub (Jun 21, 2006)

Mrbowdeadly said:
			
		

> My opinion is the company should have said "This is not a warranty covered issue, but we value your business and want to make it right."  That would certainly be nice of a company to go the extra mile.
> 
> 
> MBD




I would've felt the same way.  A happy customer will stick with that brand, I assure you.....and also bring in other customers.


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## reylamb (Jun 21, 2006)

Truth be told, with dry fires it is anyone's guess.  I have seen the same bows from the same manufacturer have absolutely no problem, and some that fly apart.  The weakest part is typically the strings and cables.  

Just to cure my curiosity, did the dealer give a reason to replace the cam and idler?  The most typical damage I see on dryfires is:  broken strings/cables, damaged axles, and split/cracked/damaged limbs.  In my experience it is rare for the cam or idler to get damaged.

For what it is worth, the strings and cables (assuming standard Zebra replacements) will run ya around $60 (typically), the cam/idler will run around $75 (typically).  Keep in mind that even under warranty repairs the manufacturers do not pay shipping both ways, so the dealer usually has to pay part of that out of pocket, nor does the manufacturer pay the dealer for labor even on warranty repairs.  I would guess the cost for replacement parts would run ballpark $120 - $135 (retail cost not dealer cost).

In my experience in situations like this the dealer usually does not contact Mathews, especially if they know it is a dry fire.  Again, typically in this situation, contacting the manufacturer after the dealer has made the repairs will get the standard answer you received back from them which is covering their dealers rear, in my opinion.


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## flat foot (Jun 21, 2006)

Sir I'm sorry for your luck. In the mid 90's I had a Bear whitetail 2 limb bust on me. I told them the trouth, through bowfishing it had been dried fired eight times, then while hunting it finally cracked. I drove to Bear Archery in Gainsville, and told them the story. They said they would see if they had any old limbs laying around and would send the bow back soon. Three weeks later there was a box at the door, with a note on it. It read Mr.Pry I hope you like the changes to your bow. When I opened the box there was a brand new mid-range bow. 
   No offense, but I will stick to my MID-RANGE bow company.


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## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 21, 2006)

Great points from all, and I agree.  Reylamb, the damage was hard to believe!  It tore the lip off the cam where the string rides.  It damaged the wheels on the cables (no bus bar on this bow for those that didn't know) and apparently whether for damage or good measure, required a new string and cables.


     Just1more, Arrowhead archery, seffner.

 Unfortunately I had a buddy take the bow in, and he authorized the repairs, as I did need it fixed.  The point is, whats fixed is fixed now, so I am out the cash.

    Additionally, I called Mathews and they said they would have offered to maybe replace the cam if I replaced string and cables, but only if I was the original owner, which I am not.  I bought the bow almost new, but that only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

MBD


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## Alan in GA (Jun 22, 2006)

*I would have liked Mathews to do something, too,,*

but I believe when, as others mentioned, you went to and thru the dealer first, Mathews will not 'override or sidestep' their own dealers.
I'm hoping that if you had written  Mathews first, they would have supplied at least some parts.
It's possible that knowing you were bowfishing they assumed the bow was getting some rough treatment [wether it actually was or not]. Bows in boats have exposure to things as limbs, rope, the fishing line used [getting into the lower cam] and other 'stuff' in the boat. I would add the gunnel of the boat as a possible lower limb obstruction, but the Outback is so short it should miss. I know you would know if that happened,,but the bow company might assume any of the above could happen.
Assume you now have a 100% operational bow, and go on. I sometimes go thru too much anguish worrying about the 'small things' according to my friends. 
Just put this all in the memory bank of your mind, and go on slinging arrows. When it comes time to buy your next bow, there's nothing wrong with bringing this occurance back to mind!! 
Bows cost LOTS of bucks nowadays,,so manufacture's support IS a BIG thing!
Guess I would ad that,,,"smoothness in the bow hand" is not all there is to a 'great bow'. My PSE Mach 12 is shooting more accurately than my '05 SB right now. I get some vibration in my bow hand,,but the arrows dont' seem to mind. Could just be the state of tune, but, well.....
Just a few thoughts over my coffee this a.m.
alan in ga


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## the HEED! (Jun 22, 2006)

any bow can be wiped out by a dry fire, I dry fired my PSE and it held up fine, I saw a buddys Browning get dry fired back to back and nothing happened, I guess its just the bow and how it reacts, sorry for you problems, man that is a high dollar bow then you had to spend more on it


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## kcausey (Jun 22, 2006)

*Reflex/Hoyt*

I have a Reflex Bighorn that I'd marry if my wife left me...that being said, a couple years ago it blew up on me about 2 days before a Sapelo Bowhunt.  My string broke....cracked both limbs and nearly sheared the axle on the idler wheel.  I took it to a Hoyt dealer, Chuck's Bait and tackle, and david, the bow guy, called hoyt, and they CNC'ed me some new limbs, (because they didn't have any in stock for that bow), recoated them with Mossy oak camo, which they don't endorse anymore, and sent them back, with with all components and another lifetime warranty; free of charge.  The point i am making....it was my fault the string broke, because i didn't properly inspect it.

btw...that fraying string cost me a 130" 8 pointer the day before...about 2 ft low because the string got longer and longer.


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## reylamb (Jun 22, 2006)

kcausey said:
			
		

> I have a Reflex Bighorn that I'd marry if my wife left me...that being said, a couple years ago it blew up on me about 2 days before a Sapelo Bowhunt.  My string broke....cracked both limbs and nearly sheared the axle on the idler wheel.  I took it to a Hoyt dealer, Chuck's Bait and tackle, and david, the bow guy, called hoyt, and they CNC'ed me some new limbs, (because they didn't have any in stock for that bow), recoated them with Mossy oak camo, which they don't endorse anymore, and sent them back, with with all components and another lifetime warranty; free of charge.  The point i am making....it was my fault the string broke, because i didn't properly inspect it.
> 
> btw...that fraying string cost me a 130" 8 pointer the day before...about 2 ft low because the string got longer and longer.


I new there was another reason I built my own strings.........I just build new ones when they start to fray.

I was going to say that this was unusual for Mathews.  I have never know them not to honor the warranty, even after dry-fires.  Now that I know you are the second owner of the bow, I can see a little more why they did not fix it under warranty.  I think they would have worked with you better than the dealer did in this situation though, had you gone to them first.

Hindsight is 20/20.  Don't worry about the bow after the repairs.  It will be back to 100%, just keep an eye on the strings and watch out for loose fitting nocks.


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## Mrbowdeadly (Jun 22, 2006)

Great points and a great post.  Thanks for all the help and suggestions.  The kicker is, I almost paid the full amount for the bow, so regardless of the manufacturer of my next bow, I am sure I will buy new to help cover my butt.

Thanks again for all the tips.

MBD


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## Bowhunter24 (Jun 22, 2006)

Thats why i stay away from buying junk like mathews and buy a better built bow like a bowtech


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## robertyb (Jun 22, 2006)

Bowhunter24 said:
			
		

> Thats why i stay away from buying junk like mathews and buy a better built bow like a bowtech







  And you would buy that junk instead on an Elite?????














I shoot an Outback myself.


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## GA_sponge (Jun 23, 2006)

robertyb said:
			
		

> And you would buy that junk instead on an Elite?????


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## hiawatha (Jun 24, 2006)

I dry fired mine, I inspected it and determined it survived. Then over time I noticed my yardage changing. I didn't think about when I dry fired it I had caused unseen damage, this was no longer on my mind. After wrestling with my sights for a couple of weeks my lower limb collapsed at full draw. I was spooked but uninjured. Come to find out, when I dry fired it the shock caused internal limb fractures the eyes could not see. The great guys at Outdoor Traditions in Dawsonville GA seemed eager to fix my problem on my second hand bow free of charge. I was told when I purchased it, it had a lifetime warrenty. I would have not been too surprised if there had been some cost to me for this but thankfully there wasn't. I try to show them my thanks by giving them all my business and refering others to them. Good service makes for happy customers and and repeat business.
Dry firing your bow can cause dammage you might not see.


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## Bow Only (Jun 25, 2006)

As someone who has to warranty my products, I can say it sure cuts into the profit margins.  Mathews is a good company to deal with in such situations and I'm sorry you weren't satisfied with the results.  People complain when a bow costs $650 but part of that cost is to cover warranty work.  And if you thought $650 was a lot for a bow, wait til next year.  6061 T-6 aircraft aluminum (which most bow companies use) has gone up 40% since the first of the year.  
I have warrantied my bipod to people who have stripped out the knobs and broken legs.  Now when it ships, I can guarantee it is not stripped or cracked but some people like to play He-Man and torque it until it strips and sometimes they break a leg.  It has gotten to the point now that I've got many thousands of bipods across the country and dealing the loss of profit and time due to warranty work makes it not worthwhile to me.  My margins aren't that high and I wasn't making a ton off of it in the first place, but now it's costing me extra time and that is something I'm not willing to spend.  So there are two sides to the story and I can see both of them.  
And Bear Archery probably was not a good example of customer service since they are no longer the parent company.


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## BassWorm (Jun 25, 2006)

And I'm in the process of replacing my 20+ year old PSE with something else, preferably a parallel limb bow. Scairy thought to blow up a high dollar bow by mistake.
Stuff happens though. When crossbows were legalized I thought I just had to have one, "honey this isn't a new bow, I've had this one a long time",  So I was practicing one day and everytime I shot my dog would run to the target. And I was rushing shots before she got into the line of fire. Well, I cocked the #&%* thing and the dog starts towards the target, I raise it up, sight it on bullseye, pull the trigger, and WHAM; Pieces of string and bow are flying all around me. I rushed and forgot to put in a bolt before I fired. Duh.......... Well, got it fixed and hunted with it a couple times till I hung it back up and have used my "old" compound since.


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