# Soul.  What is it?



## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

What is your understanding of the meaning of (Soul)  in the scriptures?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

I wonder if it is our spiritual being that is different from our flesh? I think our mind is part of our flesh because it causes us to sin. My skin and bones doesn't cause me to sin but my mind does.

Maybe when we are born again is when we get our soul or spirit. 

I think our soul is the part of us that is our resurrected body. the part of us that is left when we die a physical death. I believe only Christians will live after a physical death and that being as a spiritual body/soul.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 23, 2017)

The soul is all of me according to Deuteronomy's account of what God says.


12:20 When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after. 21If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder if it is our spiritual being that is different from our flesh? I think our mind is part of our flesh because it causes us to sin. My skin and bones doesn't cause me to sin but my mind does.
> 
> Maybe when we are born again is when we get our soul or spirit.
> 
> I think our soul is the part of us that is our resurrected body. the part of us that is left when we die a physical death. I believe only Christians will live after a physical death and that being as a spiritual body/soul.




Can you differentiate Soul from Spirit or are they the same to you?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

I think my soul and spirit are the same.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 23, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Can you differentiate Soul from Spirit or are they the same to you?



Yes I can. Very different. There is soul, spirit and Spirit.

However I understand that many use the word soul to mean spirit. And this is fine with me.

The Holy Spirit does minister to the body and the spirit and all the soul. But sometimes only to the body-- as in healing someone physically event though they themselves don't believe and won't believe after the healing....etc... But most time faith is a Spirit to spirit relationship...at least in the Christian context.

Why do you ask? Are you headed to the resurrection with this by any chance or is it something else?


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## gordon 2 (Feb 23, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think my soul and spirit are the same.



And many do believe like you. Right off did you every notice your spirit being hungry for ribs? ( Re: Deut.)


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Why do you ask? Are you headed to the resurrection with this by any chance or is it something else?



It was  brought up in another discussion group. The consensus there is.. 

Soul = a breathing person with a heartbeat.
Spirit = the facet of a Christian's existence which lives on after physical death.

I was only wondering what folks here would come up with.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

Does sin originate in one's soul? If so then I would say perhaps the soul is part of a breathing person along with his flesh. Then somehow that person turns into a spirit after physical death.

Though that doesn't explain a spiritual rebirth very good which happens while we are still a breathing person.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 23, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> It was  brought up in another discussion group. The consensus there is..
> 
> Soul = a breathing person with a heartbeat.
> Spirit = the facet of a Christian's existence which lives on after physical death.
> ...




 I understand that the Spirit ( capital S) and spirit ( minuscule s) are two differing entities.

Human beings have a spirit no matter what religions ( and no religion) they have. People are both spiritual and physical.

 (But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.)

When I read the above by a mental gymnastic I reason that "the ye that is not in the flesh but in the Spirit" was once my spirit and my flesh all in the flesh. That is to say the ox was pushing the cart or my spirit was wiping the ox from its seat in the cart. But now in Christ my spirit is in the Spirit which in turn manages the flesh to work out my faith walk. Or, I'm still in the cart but my spirit offers a carrot to my ox. And that carrot is everlasting life.

Gheesh, I don't know that this makes sense... 


The Spirit quickens yet the human spirit is something else: ,""Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.""

Jesus in the last verse is speaking to people who have " not  the sent Spirit yet", their spirit is still weak because it is still carnal ( due the fall) or the spirit's motivators are still carnal at this point. Jesus's death on the cross and the Holy Spirit sent at Pentecost  will "re-wire" man's spirit: Man's spirit need not suffer the curse of the fall and be a slave to the world. Like Christ man will die physically  and go to the Father... and the promise is that like Christ's our flesh will rise again. As Christ was to the Father, so we are to Christ....right?


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

Maybe lost people have a non-communicating spirit. Then God quickens their spirit. Maybe it's not a part of their individual identify like their soul is. When a  person dies this spirit goes back to God. 

The flesh goes to the ground and the soul goes to Heaven. Unless one isn't saved in which he dies when he dies.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father” has granted it to him. 66From that time on, many of His disciples turned back and no longer accompanied Him.

Their spirits were never quickened by the Spirit.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

If I understand the meaning of soul... It ceases to be at death.   That is if Soul is a living person.  Then the old hymn " Where the soul never dies"  can be thrown out,  cause it's an oxymoron?


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> I understand that the Spirit ( capital S) and spirit ( minuscule s) are two differing entities.
> 
> Human beings have a spirit no matter what religions ( and no religion) they have. People are both spiritual and physical.
> 
> ...



I understand the BIG S is different yes.  If I understand your point of view on the soul,  you agree that Soul is a living person?


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## welderguy (Feb 23, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> If I understand the meaning of soul... It ceases to be at death.   That is if Soul is a living person.  Then the old hymn " Where the soul never dies"  can be thrown out,  cause it's an oxymoron?



.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in heII


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

welderguy said:


> .
> 
> Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in heII



http://biblehub.com/greek/5590.htm


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

I wonder how you can kill a body without killing the life.... Digging now.  Thanks welder


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

welderguy said:


> .
> 
> Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in heII



So God has the power to kill the soul as well as the body. 
God is able to "destroy" both the soul and body.

Define kill. Define destroy.

Is one's spirit left in he11 after their soul and body have been killed and destroyed? I don't think so. I think their spirit is returned to God.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> I wonder how you can kill a body without killing the life.... Digging now.  Thanks welder



Matthew 10:28 makes it pretty plain that God kills the body and the soul. I don't believe there will be any part of that person that isn't destroyed by God.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 23, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> Matthew 10:28 makes it pretty plain that God kills the body and the soul. I don't believe there will be any part of that person that isn't destroyed by God.



Well the Greek word shown for soul is the same as determined ( living person)...  But I'm looking at Soma  IE body which can mean body of church and I like the way YLT shows this verse. 

And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 23, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> I understand the BIG S is different yes.  If I understand your point of view on the soul,  you agree that Soul is a living person?



Yes ( but I also understand that many do not make the distinction between soul and spirit as indeed Spirit and spirit....including the many bible translators... who seem to be in some cases falling on one another with these words...)


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 23, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Yes ( but I also understand that many do not make the distinction between soul and spirit as indeed Spirit and spirit....including the many bible translators... who seem to be in some cases falling on one another with these words...)



Look at these two versions of John 6:63

New International Version
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

New Living Translation
The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

In both versions the Spirit gives life. Then in one "full of the Spirit and life" and "you are spirit and life" in the other.


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## Israel (Feb 24, 2017)

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

It would appear it takes the work of God's word to the dividing of what cannot in any other way be divided rightly...even.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 24, 2017)

It is so complicated sometimes , Words they have meanings.  From the Hebrew we must learn,  then the same from the Greek can mean otherwise.. Or can mean both the same an different. 
 After working on this and falling asleep on it,  I think maybe I have found what had me so confused.  Scrolling down even farther,  apparently the word Soul in the NT can mean Spirit.... Sometimes. 

c. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from τό σῶμα, as the other part of human nature (so in Greek writings from Isocrates and Xenophon down; cf. examples in Passow, under the word, p. 2589{a} bottom; Liddell and Scott, under the word, II. 2)): Matthew 10:28, cf. 4 Macc. 13:14 (it is called ἀθάνατος, Herodotus 2, 123; Plato Phaedr., p. 245 c., 246 a., others; ἄφθαρτος, Josephus, b. j. 2, 8, 14; διαλυθῆναι τήν ψυχήν ἀπό τοῦ σώματος, Epictetus diss. 3, 10, 14); the soul freed from the body, a disembodied soul, Acts 2:27, 31 Rec.; Revelation 6:9; Revelation 20:4 (Wis. 3:1; (on the Homeric use of the word, see Ebeling, Lex. Homer, under the word, 3, and references at the end, also Proudfit in Bib. Sacr. for 1858, pp. 753-805)).


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## gordon 2 (Feb 24, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> Look at these two versions of John 6:63
> 
> New International Version
> The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.
> ...




 I did a quick glance on Greek philosophers ( which would have influence the bible writers' ways of expressing themselves)  with ref. to soul and spirit.  My impression is that the philosophers were all over the place. Some saw that both were one and the same, others spoke of the soul and the spirit without "distinguishing them". Plato spoke of the "spiritual soul" etc...

Jesus must of waded in these concepts, and the concepts of the Jews regards soul and spirit, being they must of occupied his followers minds. It would be interesting to read His ministering when He used these words ( concepts).

 I found this statement interesting... (According to the Greek philosophers, the soul is like a breeze united with the body and takes its form and shape.) But I have not checked if in fact it is valid.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 24, 2017)

Israel said:


> For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
> 
> It would appear it takes the work of God's word to the dividing of what cannot in any other way be divided rightly...even.




Yes it seems when you think of it that there has always been a tangle of the soul and the spirit in man's understanding. It is like something caused the cat to find and play with mom's ball of yarn or wool and only the patience and  attention of a saint ( Jesus) can weave it to a masterpiece that is a coat-covering.

In the context, the world is the cat, heaven (ly) is for saints and their unraveling, and the Resurrection is in the end, the masterpiece covering.   I'm ahead of myself perhaps... ? LOL


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