# Predator Control and Quail



## BirdNut (Feb 26, 2009)

Repeatedly as we discuss quail, predator control comes up.

What is adequate predator control?

Would you invite coon hunters to your land? Someone to come and live-trap possum for consumption? I dont know if such people even exist anymore. I worked for a gentlemen who grew up in rural Georgia in late 50's and early 60's whose family live-trapped, penned and "cleaned out" possum with sweet potatoes to supplement or be the sole source of protein from time to time. I told him (as a joke) it sounded like a waste of perfectly good sweet potatoes. He told me that had it not been for possum, there would have been times they went without meat for long periods.

Of course, many years ago, there were people that would put most of the predators in a pot and the old-timers tell you that no one ever saw a hawk without trying to kill it. I think TV cured most of the possum eaters of that, since they realized not everyone lived like they did.

Would you find a trapper to come and try to get as many mammalian predators as possible?

I have lost quail to cats, snakes, of course hawks like everyone else. I think coons given the opportunity will harass quail in a recall pen. I once lost about 25 quail to something that had to have more than jsut a paw (maybe chupa cabra or sasquatch). It was pretty grisly...no heads, no feet, no wings, and the bodies had been worked over pretty good like someone had been picking feathers and almost ready to cook.

Once I even lost a few quail to a squirrel that got in the funnel of a recall pen to get at the seed and some of the birds broke their own necks trying to get away from a frantic squirrel.

Ground animals harassed our pen so much that we took some stout rope and suspended it between 2 trees, much like you would to cache food out of reach of bears. Well, once visit to the pen to feed and water the recall bird and we found a rat snake had crawled down the rope, in the funnel and swallowed the recall bird, but was unable to leave the pen.

I once read in GON that quail are the potato chips of nature, everything likes to eat them.

So, staying within the bounds of the law (no hawk shooting etc.) who has found a program of effective predator control and what do you do?


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## Ol' Gobblero (Feb 26, 2009)

Raccoon, skunk and opossum are your main quail predators.  They will do more damage to nests and eggs than any bobcat, coyote, or fox does on live quail.  Housecats also do significant damage on live birds as they are an opportunistic predator.  I am a trapper myself, but removing too many predators can actually do damage to the quail population.  Coyotes and foxes are natural mousers and prefer to eat mice and rats over anything else.  Removing too many yotes and foxes will increase your rodent population and cotton rats are a viscious quail nest predator.  You have to try to find a happy medium with trapping.  A property that spends maybe 5-10% budget on predator control and 90-95% on habitat management will hold more quail than a place that does the opposite.  Personally I would focus more on native habitat management and burning than trying to control any kind of predator.


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## BirdNut (Feb 26, 2009)

What about armadillo?


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## ryanwhit (Feb 26, 2009)

hit the meso-mammals as hard as possible.  coons, possums, skunk, bobcat, coyote, and fox.  that's all you can do as far as pred management.  no offense to ol gobbler, but cotton rats do not eat quail eggs.  they have long been thought to, but some uga/ttrs research about 3 yrs ago showed that they don't...they can't open there mouths wide enough.  they do compete for habitat though.

i will not condone shooting hawks ever.  I believe that if i can create the proper habitat, quail can escape hawk attacks sufficiently.  put your blackberry patches and plum thickets in the right spots, and quail will be fine against hawks.  a coopers will only follow a quail into a plum thicket once...and that's where he'll be when he dies with a broken wing.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 26, 2009)

BirdNut said:


> What about armadillo?



not that significant of a predator, as they are mostly insectivores.  but remove them anyway, as they are an exotic invasive. 

deer have also been shown to eat quail eggs...very rare though.


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## mecicon (Feb 26, 2009)

ryanwhit said:


> not that significant of a predator, as they are mostly insectivores.  but remove them anyway, as they are an exotic invasive.
> 
> deer have also been shown to eat quail eggs...very rare though.



Armadillo, aka Hoover Hogs will eat the eggs, they have been seen as far north as Powder Springs 

Deer will trample the eggs inadvertently not a huge predator.


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## Eroc33 (Feb 26, 2009)

i think fire ants are a major predator to freshly hatched birds, but nobody ever talks about it why


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## ryanwhit (Feb 26, 2009)

mecicon said:


> Armadillo, aka Hoover Hogs will eat the eggs, they have been seen as far north as Powder Springs
> 
> Deer will trample the eggs inadvertently not a huge predator.



Indeed, they *will* eat eggs.  so will deer.  I think maybe turkeys have been found eating them too.  but they're not nearly as bad as the other things that have been listed.  they are also difficult to trap and almost impossible to target...most catches are accidental.

And they are way north of powder springs.  Saw one in Cherokee county alabama 2 weeks ago (just across the line from Rome, GA) and have seen dillo roadkill in dade county, ga on I59.


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## radams1228 (Feb 26, 2009)

Eroc33 said:


> i think fire ants are a major predator to freshly hatched birds, but nobody ever talks about it why



I don't know anything about any of it. I was reading the thread to try and learn something. A friend has some land and we rented the adjoining property and hope to start some quail rehabitation. 

I could certainly see how the fire ants would be a problem with the freshly hatched quail. I would like to see some more thoughts and info (if there is any) about this.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 26, 2009)

radams1228 said:


> I don't know anything about any of it. I was reading the thread to try and learn something. A friend has some land and we rented the adjoining property and hope to start some quail rehabitation.
> 
> I could certainly see how the fire ants would be a problem with the freshly hatched quail. I would like to see some more thoughts and info (if there is any) about this.



yep, fire ants are definitely a problem.  hard to do anything about them though.


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## english setter (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey guys do not under estimate the wild turkey affect. in the mountains turkeys scrach grouse nest out and peck holes in the eggs, skunks, coons,, house cat. yotes will eat anything so quail dont have much of a chance ,with out cover and food source its a tough life


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## coveyrise90 (Feb 26, 2009)

This info is from Tall Timbers.

Worst Nest Predators:
#1 Snakes
#2 Raccoon
#3 Armadillo
#4 Opossum
#5 Fire Ants
#6 Bobcat
#7 Cotton Rat
#8 Coyote


Deer and Turkey do VERY little damage.  Coyotes, bobcats, cotton rats, and fire ants combined altogether account for less than 25% of the predation on nests.


Dont have the specifics on adult birds but I do know that avian predators account for 80% of the overall adult predation kills.

Adam


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 27, 2009)

According to the Albany Project Research, a high cotton rat population is actually a little benificial for the quail population.  With more rats, the predators will key in on them and dilute the pressure on the quail population.  As for nest predators, the cams showed that the rats might move some eggs out of the nest, but momma or pappa quail would roll it right back in and rats would scavage a nest after other predators, but did very little predation theirselves.  Ol serpent, you know the dude that tricked Eve, is the number one nest predator, accounting for over 40% if eggs ate.  I am a long time trapper myself, not so much since the market fell some 27 or so years ago, and all the hav-a-hart traps, coon hunters, predator hunters, etc... will not put a dent in the predator population.  You need good ol' #1 1/2 and #2 legholds.  The problem here is that trapping season coincides with bird season, and most folks dont want their bird dog pinched by a leg hold.  With a permit you can trap out of season, however the fur is no good so you pay, and pay a pretty price for each varmit caught (10-20 bucks per varmit) so that can get expensive.  A good trapper can catch 20 or more varmits a night if he has the tools and the know how, of course the numbers decrease rather fast, but still adds up to some bucks.  However some predator control is needed.  I reckon you could hire falconiers to come catch all your hawks (the biggest predator on quail) dont know if that has been tried...lol, would get expensive I imagine. So, the best bet is feed by broadcast (shorting the foraging period each day) and improve habitat with cover (alot) and weed fields and play like the little dutch boy and put your finger in the dyke with regards to predators.  Some biologist are exploring a nature control of fire ant with some kinda fly that be heads the ant, until then, I would ride around and poison each bed found, especially after a summer fire when the would be easy to find.  And always have some fire ant poison on ya for when you run across an ant bed.


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## GA DAWG (Feb 27, 2009)

This will help your quail and turkey population! Let me know when you need our services


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## Luke0927 (Feb 27, 2009)

trap and shoot as many nest raiding varmits as you can....and throw 'em in the ditch for all i care.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 27, 2009)

I will tell you one thing, the way my shooting has been lately aint no one gotta worry about controlling this quail predator.  Did find some wild birds this afternoon on public land, in the 70s and a stiff wind.  The covey busted within one second of my dog locking on them, litterally one second, needless to say, my shooting weren't what it could be.  The good news is I talked to the regional biologist out of Albany today, again, and he was telling me all they were doing on the wma's down this way for quail.  I walked a good bit of Elmodel today, and besides the bermuda grass in places out there, they have done alot there for quail. He said they will be doing more out there in the near future and were trying to put a dog training area out there (that'll be two now in less than an hour from my driveway)  Lots of sandy soil out there and I didnt see any coon tracks nor fox tracks and only saw one sparrow hawk and one redtailed hawk...not the first cooper's.  Did see two dead on the road between Newton and Elmodel though.  He also told me they have been out discing at chickasawhatchee this week and they are getting ready to thin more timber out there.  He assured me that quail management is gonna be the main focus on all the uplands there.


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## Jim P (Feb 27, 2009)

Every one talks alot about the fire ants being the problem with the decline of the lil gentleman, I must be blind, but I realy haven't seen that many fire ant beds when I'm in the fields or woods, I beleave it's mostly habitat and the hawks, I hope we all find the remedy before I go to the big quail field in the sky.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 27, 2009)

Fire ants will put a hurting on chicks I dont think they will do much to adults though.  Hawks will hammer the adults....(estimates are up to 80% of the predation on adults) And snakes are the biggest ovavors (fancy word for egg eaters if I spelt it right).  It is illegal to kill a non-venomous snake (most folks dont know that) and it is illegal to kill a raptor(everyone knows that), so after I have mulled over the findings from the albany project, I think the best defense against two of the three listed above, is keep them varmits full of cotton rats, as I have stated more than a few times over the past couple of days.  I was involved in some of the illegal poisoning with eggs cases down here some years ago (as an  attorney, not a suspect) and looking at all the evidence and talking to some of the folks dirrectly involved, and talking to some of the managers....there was really no major impact on the quail populations...however some endangered snakes (indigos) were thought to have been killed along with all kinds of animals.  So I think the answer is to broadcast corn year round to spike the cotton rat (and other rodents) populations(it also cuts the quails exposure to predators down drastically)  and give those quail eating varmits a virtual buffet to choose from. As we all know, if catfish is the only thing on the buffet, that is all that is gonna get ate, but ya throw porkchops, chicken, ham, shrimp and roast beef on the buffet too, there is gonna be a whole lot of catfish left over at the end of the night.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 28, 2009)

redneck_billcollector said:


> Fire ants will put a hurting on chicks I dont think they will do much to adults though.  Hawks will hammer the adults....(estimates are up to 80% of the predation on adults) And snakes are the biggest ovavors (fancy word for egg eaters if I spelt it right).  It is illegal to kill a non-venomous snake (most folks dont know that) and it is illegal to kill a raptor(everyone knows that), so after I have mulled over the findings from the albany project, I think the best defense against two of the three listed above, is keep them varmits full of cotton rats, as I have stated more than a few times over the past couple of days.  I was involved in some of the illegal poisoning with eggs cases down here some years ago (as an  attorney, not a suspect) and looking at all the evidence and talking to some of the folks dirrectly involved, and talking to some of the managers....there was really no major impact on the quail populations...however some endangered snakes (indigos) were thought to have been killed along with all kinds of animals.  So I think the answer is to broadcast corn year round to spike the cotton rat (and other rodents) populations(it also cuts the quails exposure to predators down drastically)  and give those quail eating varmits a virtual buffet to choose from. As we all know, if catfish is the only thing on the buffet, that is all that is gonna get ate, but ya throw porkchops, chicken, ham, shrimp and roast beef on the buffet too, there is gonna be a whole lot of catfish left over at the end of the night.




I agree...this is sound logic in my opinion.

the only thing i would add is to trap/hunt or otherwise remove as many meso-mammals as possible/practical.


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## redneck_billcollector (Mar 1, 2009)

Here is a link to some interesting video of quail nests, has a video of a deer eating quail eggs, dangdest thing I have ever seen.  http://www.talltimbers.org/gb-nestvideo.html

Gonna need to get rid of them coons and possums, dang possum and yote were the only two to catch the adult, though a snake caught one but it got away.


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