# Backpacking general discussion!



## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

My daughter who just turned 30 has been trying to get me to go backpacking with her. We have been on some long day hikes but not overnight. Now I have the fever. We'll probably go in March somewhere.
She has grown up canoe camping on sandbars and primitive camping. I've been backpacking in my younger days but haven't been in about 15 years. My brother and hiking partner moved away. 
Now that I'm older(59) I'm really leaning towards the ultralight side of the endeavor although I'm not a gram weenie. 

I have a Camp Trails external frame pack and my daughter has a Gregory Diva(i think)

I've read "The Complete Walker" and recently "A Walk in the Woods." 

I'm looking for advice, tips, and just to see how much has changed over the years.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

Do people still use external frame packs?

We both like the idea of hammocks and the big rain fly over the hammock. I joined the Hammock forum and White blazes.
Resources are nice if anybody has recommendations and so are equipment resources.
I've bought most of my supplies from Campmor and have been satisfied with their brands of sleeping bags, raincoats, and clothing.
I've also used Sierra Trading Post for a few items.
Mountain Gear looks good.

So any sites, forums, or other resources would be appreciated.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

Packing lighter?
I'll leave behind my lightweight knife handle like hatchet, homemade little shovel, grill grate, Sven folding saw, mini-mag light, big heavy Danner boots, heavy two man tent, sleeping pad, Coleman Peak 1 stove, etc.

I'll carry a hammock, rain fly, suspension, sleeping bag(to start with), alky stove, pot coozie, freezer bag cooking?, tent snow stake for cat hole digging, piece of tyvek for ground cloth. Petzl headlamp, etc.

I don't like ponchos so I'll take a raincoat to use as a shell over fleece? Now what about a pack cover? Are pack covers rainproof?

Polypropylene was the main thing people were wearing for thermal underwear in my younger days. It was known to hold odors. Poly liner socks with wool over these was popular.

Stoves. I see they've got alky stoves with external little bottles and a plastic tube instead of the tuna & pop can stoves. I'll mostly just boil water and pour it over some  type of  ramen noodles or porridge.


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## T-N-T (Jan 27, 2015)

I dont mean to sound like this,  (tone doesnt type very well)  but sounds like you are well on your way to having it figured out dodger...
I am no backpack camper,  but I look at every sales book that comes from Basspro and Cabelas...  I am fairly knowledgeable about what they sell for these activities...  And you sound like you have the basics figured out.
Clothing is the only thing you will need to figure out,  solely dependent on weather forcast when you set out.

Have fun!


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

Hammocks. Well I'd like to have a Warbonnet Ridge Runner bridge hammock or a Jacks R Better Bear Mountain bridge hammock.
I'm a side sleeper so that's why I'm leaning towards a bridge hammock. 
But to have something to compare them to I will start with an 11' gathered end traditional hammock. Who knows, I might like it just fine. Shug says he tosses and turns in bed but sleeps like a mummy in a hammock. Some side sleepers sleep OK after finding their sweet spot in a traditional gathered in hammock. Even better in an 11' hammock.
Eno is a good brand and Grand Trunk got good reviews. Hennessy is a popular brand. 
There is a cottage industry of hammock makers and some DIY sites.
I've looked into  the Hemmeck Argon, Wilderness Logic Snipe, Butt In A Sling (BIAS) Weight Weenie 11', and two by Dutchware, the Argon 11' and the Nylon D 11'. Dutch has sold a lot of suspension parts and hammock materials. He now sells three gathered end hammocks already sewn. You can buy them with or without suspension straps/ropes.
I'll probably buy the Argon without any suspension which is only $32.00. Hey I gotta start somewhere.

http://dutchwaregear.com/argon-hammock.html

I don't know if I want a hammock with a built in bug net. Some people don't like built in bug nets. The DIY Fronkey is a popular net. Dutch sells one he makes. They block a lot of wind and are hotter in the summer time and so is a built-in rain fly. Built-in rainfly hammocks are terrible for ventilation and condensation.

Rainflys. I'll probably go with a catenary hex cut which helps with sagging and wind flapping. I guess the basic shape is rectangle instead of the square tarps pitched diagonally over a hammock.
It's more weight but gives more protection for cooking and gear storage under the hammock. 
You can also fold in the ends and make it look like a traditional a frame pup tent in colder/windy  weather. It'll look like a tent over your hammock but the ends won't go all the way to the ground.

Underquilt/overquilt. I'll start with just my sleeping bag. I might see if I can cut a slot in the elephant foot end of my mummy bag and use it like a cocoon. 

Suspension. Wow, that's a whole subject in and of itself. Straps, tree huggers, whoopie slings, structural ridgelines, waterbreaks, dutch clips, Amsteel, Dynaglide, and whoopie hooks is a lot to think about.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

TopherAndTick said:


> I dont mean to sound like this,  (tone doesnt type very well)  but sounds like you are well on your way to having it figured out dodger...
> I am no backpack camper,  but I look at every sales book that comes from Basspro and Cabelas...  I am fairly knowledgeable about what they sell for these activities...  And you sound like you have the basics figured out.
> Clothing is the only thing you will need to figure out,  solely dependent on weather forcast when you set out.
> 
> Have fun!



I understand and my daughter is research crazy like I am. 
But I remember an old movie about this expert fishing gear salesman in a fancy outdoor store. Someone entered him in a fishing tournament. Now that's where the fun began as he had never gone fishing before.

Anyway it's good to here from local people who go to local places. They might use some gear or offer some advice that I have never heard of before.

Yeah I haven't looked into clothing and/or boots yet. I'm sure lots have changed since the 15 years I've been. 

One thing I have noticed over the years of tent/car camping, canoe camping, and backpacking is that the equipment used for each doesn't lend itself well to the others. I have a two burner Coleman stove for car camping but is was to big for canoe camping. I bought a one burner Coleman stove for canoe camping but it is too heavy for backpacking. It's like all of my gear follows this pattern. 

Hopefully I too can pass on some info. in return. I'm just ready to hit the trail again.
I've been walking and jogging a little. My joints kinda hurt. I have bunions, flat feet, and a terrible callous between my toes. Do hikers still use moleskin? Life gets teejus!


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## walkinboss01 (Jan 27, 2015)

The first time I went on a week long trip I carried 65lbs. It was TOUGH. The last time I went for a week it was around 40lbs. That was MUCH better. I haven't seen anyone use an external pack in a while. I have a Dana Design, and it's probably 15 yrs old. It's a little heavy compared to todays gear. I have a MSR stove-dragonfly. I've never been a fan of hammocks, but I have a buddy that's use one. My water filter screws directly on the top of a Nalgene bottle, and that's nice. You don't have to worry about it falling over as you filter. I bought a cup/cooking bowl off of campmor yrs ago, and it serves as both. Enjoy youself, have fun, and take your time.


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## T-N-T (Jan 27, 2015)

I have an Eno double nest.  I fall asleep on my side EVERY night.  I did fine in it.
Buy an Eno Double Deluxe.  They are HUGE.
If you hang it just so,  with a sag in the middle and then turn feet 30 degress to left and head 30 degrees to right you will all of a sudden be laying flat and not in an arch.
Cray huh.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 27, 2015)

I love this Nube rain fly but it's $275.00;

http://www.smrgearme.com/buy-gear/nube


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## 660griz (Jan 28, 2015)

I just bought a Kelty Noah's Tarp for backpacking. 12'x12' 
How much does your pack weigh empty? You might want to look at upgrading. There are very lightweight options that could save you a few pounds. 
You could get a pack cover for rain or, put everything in a dry bag. 
I cannot be confused with an ultralight backpacker. There are certain things I could replace with lighter stuff but, I just like em too much. One is the Jet Boil Titanium stove. When I can boil 16 ounces of water in under 2 minutes at 12,000 feet, that makes me happy. Another is the First Need water filter. The only one I found that filters viruses. I could definitely go lighter but, getting sick way out in the backcountry...well, I guess I am a little paranoid. I also carry UV purifier as backup. Boiling would be backup to that. 
Get the lightest footwear you can that is appropriate for your trail conditions and pack weight.  
Do you have trekking poles already? 
Fire starting? Navigation? Cordage? Cutting?
Remember...one is none, and 2 is one.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 28, 2015)

I definitely need a water filter. I drunk unfiltered water from the creek that ran from the SC fish hatchery into the Chattooga River and got a Giardia infection. Lesson learned.

I never have liked carrying a hiking staff. It just seemed like something else to have to carry. I understand the need for one and often wished I had one for stream crossing. Sometimes I've been able to find a stick.
One reason I don't like to carry one is because I like to adjust my pack a lot, lift it up with my hands from time to time, and move my shoulder straps in and out. 
Maybe if I had a newer internal frame pack it would fit so much better that I wouldn't feel the need to do that.
Navigation? I thought that was what blazes were for. Do cell phone GPS's work?
What is cordage and cutting?


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## 660griz (Jan 28, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I never have liked carrying a hiking staff. It just seemed like something else to have to carry. I understand the need for one and often wished I had one for stream crossing.


 I don't like carrying them either. Saved my booty a few times though. 


> Navigation? I thought that was what blazes were for.


 Yea. Just ignore me. I go a little overboard. I pack with the assumption that I am going to get off trail and get lost. I have been hiking along and the trail just disappear. (Wife was leading. ) Glad I had a GPS. 





> Do cell phone GPS's work?


 Probably.


> What is cordage and cutting?


 Para cord and knife(s).  Once again, I pack every time like it is the apocalypse and this is my bug out bag. 
Oh, and first aid. Which does include duct tape. I take a fishing kit unless I am in the desert. I also take at least 3 methods of starting a fire with cotton balls/Vaseline.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 28, 2015)

I've come to a fork in the trail before where the blazes weren't very well marked. We did have a map and ended up going the correct way but it was iffy until we got to the drop off vehicle.

Yeah, I'm all for carrying cord, knife, and emergency/survival items. I don't carry a large hunting knife though. Probably just a pocket folder.


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## 660griz (Jan 28, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've come to a fork in the trail before where the blazes weren't very well marked. We did have a map and ended up going the correct way but it was iffy until we got to the drop off vehicle.
> 
> Yeah, I'm all for carrying cord, knife, and emergency/survival items. I don't carry a large hunting knife though. Probably just a pocket folder.



I carry a large knife, and probably a couple folders and a multi-tool. 
I carry way too much. 
Headlamp, couple flashlights and spare batteries.


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## HuntinTom (Jan 28, 2015)

I was bitten by the light-weight bug a few years ago, and through a lot of trial and error, and, trying different products, I've dropped my spring/summer, two night/three day weight down from about 40 pounds to 16 pounds - and that includes food for the three days, fuel for cooking, and water (That's enough water to get me from water source to water source - So, it's provisional on having water at least every 6 or so miles).

I've learned that the cottage industry is the best place for me to find high quality, low weight gear --   Most of those places are still small enough that you actually deal with the owner/maker of the product.  

But, weight-loss comes with a price (Literally)- Mainly in the big 3 "Shelter, Sleeping, and Pack".  It also comes with a balance, and usually some sacrifice, between comfort and weight -- 

I saved a lot of pounds with a LightHeart tent, Zimmer-made pack, and Western Mountaineering bag

Another place I save a lot is cooking - Using just one titanium pot, a home-made cat/alcohol stove with just enough fuel to burn three evening meals and some instant coffee in the mornings.  I also use a Steri-pen for water purification.  I also have all light weight clothing (just running shorts in the summer), and wear trail-running shoes.  I also look for any item that can be multi-use if possible, therefore, eliminating the need for extra  ounces...

I go lighter in weight because it's easier on my old body, and I can walk more miles on any given day with less stress on the bod...  But, the biggest thing I've learned is "Hike your own hike!"  If it's worth the weight for you and gives you a more comfortable hike - It's right for you!


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## Randy (Jan 29, 2015)

I am not a hiker at all.  But I camp a lot with my kayaking and fishing.  I have been sleeping in hammocks about 5 years now.  I prefer them over a tent if possible.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 29, 2015)

Randy said:


> I am not a hiker at all.  But I camp a lot with my kayaking and fishing.  I have been sleeping in hammocks about 5 years now.  I prefer them over a tent if possible.



Hey, what type or brand do you have? We've always slept on the sandbars on our canoe trips. One time on the Edisto the river was so high we had to camp on the bank as there were no sandbars. It felt like we were in a swamp. I thought about a hammock extended above the water as an  option.


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## ospreydog (Jan 31, 2015)

I have been backpacking the A.T. since the late 70's back then it's a wonder I didn't die because I hardly had anything. If I use my tent I have a Henry Shires Tarptent which only weighs 1.5 lbs. but I will have to say I love my hammock which came from one of the cottage vendors its 11' which gives me a very flat lay. I went ahead and got a down top quilt and under quilt because the pad just didn't work for me. You don't need a gps just a good trail guide. Go make some great memories with your family and post some pics.


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## greene_dawg (Feb 1, 2015)

I backpack a lot. I mean, a lot.  In the past three years I have done the Ga section of the AT in one go, Canyonlands, Weminuche Wilderness, the stretch of the continental divide in Indian Peaks wilderness in Co, Zion, Yosemite, Big Sur, Tahoe Rim Trail, Joshua Tree, Snowdonia in Wales, Rocky Mtn NP, ... This year I have a return to Yoemite on the books as well as the summit of Whitney and Bryce Canyon. Doesn't mean I know more than anyone, just that I have field tested a lot of gear. That said, everyone has their own style and you will develop yours as well but here is my 2 cents.

Pack - I have 4. Two TNF's, an Osprey Exos, and a Gregory Baltoro. I am a big fan of both Osprey and Gregory but if I were buying one pack it would be a Gregory. The Baltoro is the best piece of gear I own. Go to REI and try on several while loaded and do yourself a favor and try on the Baltoro. 

Shelter - I have two tents and a hammock. I personally prefer a tent because it is versatile. You can sleep another person which means you can split the load, you can sit up in it in bad weather and play cards or whatever and it will definately keep you warmer than a hammock. My go to is a Mountain HW Skyledge 3. All mesh so I can go without the fly on clear warm nights. I also have a Hennesey Hammock that is fun and I use sometimes in the summer but I like to toss and tuen a little bit as well as sleep on my stomach which is touch to swing in a hammock. 

Stove - I have a Brunton Raptor and a JetBoil. The Jet Boil is tough to beat if you are just boiling water and the newer model simmers better and also has a better spoon angle pot for cooking actual meals. Love both of these stoves. 

Pad - I have a Thermarest prolite 4 that has served me well for 7 or 8 years. Not looking to change. There are newer lighter pads out there but they also make a ton of noise if you have a sleeping partner. Mine is full length and there is no way I would trade it for a shorter version to save a few ounces. 

Bag - I have several. My best is a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite down which wins about every award possible every year but it is mega expensive. Took me several upgrades before I got to this one. If I were buying on ebag on a budget I would look at the North Face Cats Meow synthetic. Hard to beat the bang for the buck.

Headlamp - Any Princeton, Black Diamond, or Petzl are pretty much good to go but for $40 the Black Diamond spot is hard to beat. 

Filter - I have a Katadyn Hiker that has pumped clean water for me for a decade. 

This is just scratching the surface on gear without getting into layers, rain gear, boots, trail runners, knives, bear vaults, trekking poles, and on and on. 

My personal stlyle is a light as I can get wihout sacrificing comfort. If I am not sleeping well or comfortable at camp then I am not going to be much of a hiker the next day no matter how light I am. 

If I could give you one piece of gear advice it would be to buy from a place with a no questions asked return policy and get out there and try it out. If you buy something from REI and don't like it they will take it back with a full refund.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 1, 2015)

Thanks for the info. and tips guys.


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## T-N-T (Feb 1, 2015)

greene_dawg said:


> I backpack a lot. I mean, a lot.  In the past three years I have done the Ga section of the AT in one go, Canyonlands, Weminuche Wilderness, the stretch of the continental divide in Indian Peaks wilderness in Co, Zion, Yosemite, Big Sur, Tahoe Rim Trail, Joshua Tree, Snowdonia in Wales, Rocky Mtn NP, ... This year I have a return to Yoemite on the books as well as the summit of Whitney and Bryce Canyon. Doesn't mean I know more than anyone, just that I have field tested a lot of gear. That said, everyone has their own style and you will develop yours as well but here is my 2 cents.
> 
> Pack - I have 4. Two TNF's, an Osprey Exos, and a Gregory Baltoro. I am a big fan of both Osprey and Gregory but if I were buying one pack it would be a Gregory. The Baltoro is the best piece of gear I own. Go to REI and try on several while loaded and do yourself a favor and try on the Baltoro.
> 
> ...



I just ordered a black diamond 160 lumen light.  I have been needing to get a new one and did a little further research above your recommendations and pulled the trigger.
Thanks for the tip!


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 2, 2015)

In regards to backpack ventilated back panels, what types are available? External packs had this mesh/foam back for ventilation. Some folks say the mesh/foam is just as sweaty as a fabric back panel/band. 
Some internal packs have a mesh back panel. Some say this is about as sweaty as not having one at all. It also places the pack away from your back a tad which messes with the center of gravity that internal packs corrected.
Some Gregory packs have open ventilation all the way from the shoulder straps to the lumbar support which would be better than mesh. 
I would like to hear comments about ventilation on internal and external packs. Like I said earlier I'll probably use my external Camp Trails as I can't buy everything new for my first few trips.
My Camp Trails has a mesh/foam back panel which isn't that breathable. Wouldn't mesh without the foam work better or is the foam necessary for padding on an external frame?


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## greene_dawg (Feb 3, 2015)

I think you hit all the valid points. My Osprey has a mesh back and it breaths better than most. The two NF's have the verticool back which I think gives a little relief and my gregory has sort of a foamy frame which I don't notice as hot but not cool either. In warm weather you are going to sweat using any of them IMO. I would put ventilation behind right size and fit for sure.


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## greene_dawg (Feb 3, 2015)

If you are on facebook take a look at the page "Bearfoot's Hiking Gear Flea Market"

People selling used gear. I have bought and sold here and it is a pretty good deal.


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## ScottD (Feb 16, 2015)

OK - so after not backpacking for 25 years - i have decided to get back into it this year.  I have been replacing stuff like crazy - the nice part is that with the internet, stuff is much more available and a lot cheaper too.

Ebay has become my best friend.  I bought a used Gregory pack for $45.  The hip belt was broken and the lid was missing, but the rest was great.  I shipped it to Gregory and they replaced the entire suspension and gave me a lid......all for free.  It is an 80 liter pack - maybe a little much?

Stove - ditched the old whisper-lite for a Pocket Rocket - so much easier to work with.

Tent - I had a great tent back then and even by today's standards it was pretty good weight-wise.  But i splurged for a Tarptent Double Rainbow- 3lbs

Pad - I have both a thermarest inflatable and a Z-lite.  Not sure which to use - z-lite saves 13 oz.  - thats a lot.

Bag - I have my old military bag - 2lb6oz - but it seems like i usually just laid on top of it because its always too hot.  I am not sure if a nice bag is worth the $ if it only gets used as a sleeping pad cover.  I do have a silk bag liner that I sleep in and could always use as an extra bag liner - but other than a trip once in February - I don't remember getting in the bag much.

As far as other stuff - ditching my old pump filter for a Sawyer Squeeze. A GSI cookset, Poles (my knees are definately 25 years older). LED headlamp, Enticer knife, leatherman squirt, crocs.

I made - a cozy for my cook pot as well as a pocket for boil in bag food.  I took an ultra light rain suit from Walmart - Frogg Toggs and cut up the pants and made a rain skirt - Pants make me sweat so much I am wet anyway. 

I am ditching the GPS - I got an app called backcountry Navagator for my phone - anybody tried this? - Back then we didn't have phones - will I have service?  I actually found Quarters in my old first aid kit I used to carry for pay phones. One of my kids asked me what was a pay phone.

I made a tarp and my ground sheet from Polycro- it is light...seems fragile?

So my baseweight is 25lbs - back then it would have been 35-40.  Still worried about the 25 now.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 16, 2015)

It's been so cold I haven't been thinking about backpacking much. Spring is close though. There is a little bit of backpacking gear on Etsy.com
I'll have to check out Bearfoot's Hiking Gear Flea Market. White blazes and the Hammock forum have used gear by members too.


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## blue91wrangler (Feb 25, 2015)

A buddy and myself were planning a trip last fall and I started looking into upgrading some of my equipment(most of which was either bought at yard sales or brought used from friends) and when I started looking, the best place I found was Amazon. I was able to get pretty good quality tent, pack, stove, sleeping bag etc at a very good price. Haven't had the chance to use the pack yet but have used everything else and all worked like a champ. The stove I got was one of the small folding ones that attaches to the top of the MSR style canisters, I paid $4 bucks. Sleeping bag is a mummy bag rated for 30 degrees(i think, if not less) and I paid right at $30, it compresses super small. Tent i got was a one man backpacking tent, paid like $30. And the pack is a 75L, bigger than I will ever need to fill, but paid $35 with $15 shipping. I have packed it and put it on, but haven't had the chance to field test. I already had a hammock that I love. And most of my other items didn't need upgrading at that time. Maybe this year. I am just not a fan of paying loads of money for equipment that I will use once or twice a year. I said all of that to say, check Amazon, great prices and so far, I have gotten great gear(just read reviews before buying).


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## Fletch_W (Mar 9, 2015)

I still use my "junior" edition external frame coleman backpack I had in Cub Scouts. 

Super lightweight, you can tie/affix nearly anything to it, and if I can't fit it in the relatively small "pack" portion, then I don't need it. And I've never wanted for something I just didn't have room for. 

Or course, my wife is the opposite. Huge ridiculous backpack. She packs everything. The way this works is that she gets to carry my light pack and I get to carry her ridiculous pack. 

Do any of those books about backpacking offer any advice on how I should deal with this?


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