# why cant trad broadheads come sharp!!!!



## devolve (Aug 30, 2010)

I dont get it! Why sell a broadhead that needs to be sharpened?

Ive bought Woodsmans and snuffers. the woodsmans fly AWESOME out of both of my setups. 

Now I have bought new files, stones, oil etc to try and get them sharp enough to hunt with. I have now spent twice what the dang heads cost in materials to try and get them sharp enough to hunt with!

I have watched video after video showing me how to do it. I have sat here and gone along with the videos. And nothing! Never in my life have I had an issue with sharpening anything! 

Why cant they come with an edge on them like MOST OTHER BROAD HEADS OUT THERE!!!!


----------



## dawg2 (Aug 30, 2010)

Mine came sharp, but needed to be honed on a fine oilstone.  Not sure why many come like that.  I have not spent the amount of time sharpening you are talking about though.  You must be doing something wrong

Look on the bright side:  You would have needed all of those sharpening supplies eventually.

Something else to consider if you are having that many problems.  It may be bad steel.


----------



## T.P. (Aug 30, 2010)

My Deltas look like they've been sharpened on a concrete block.


----------



## dtala (Aug 30, 2010)

even if they came sharp enough to hunt with ya need to touch em up at least every ten days er so even if not shot or even moved around.

Only head I use that comes sharp enough to hunt with is a German made Silverflame.

  troy


----------



## LongBow01 (Aug 30, 2010)

I  have often wondered this myself I dont mind resharpening when they become dull from use or bouncin around in a quiver but man some broadheads are rediculous I think they ought to come shavin hair in the package for the price most of em are.


----------



## slughunter821 (Aug 30, 2010)

I bought some STOS broadheads from 3 rivers the other day and they came out of the package very sharp.


----------



## devolve (Aug 30, 2010)

I just gave it another try and still NOTHING! they wouldnt cut paper at this point. But hey, at least I spent 50 dollars buying all the crap I needed to sharpen my 30 dollar broad heads. O'wait there 80 dollar heads now and still just as freaking useless as when they came out of the dang package!


----------



## Jake Allen (Aug 30, 2010)

Getting broadheads as sharp as I want them, when I want them sharp, 
and being able to repeat the process at will, 
is an enjoyable part of this journey for me.

Also, I do not trust some paid fellow on a production line to 
sharpen the tools I intend to hunt with. 

Tips: Load the grooves in the file with chalk, hold the file at a 45 degree (app) angle when stroking across both blades.
Firm pressure, and lighten the pressure as the blades
sharpen.
Listen to Lance; he knows how to handle a file! 

Good luck brother!

This short thread contains some good information.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=498612&highlight=lance+broadhead+sharpen


----------



## LanceColeman (Aug 30, 2010)

main issue numba ONE: ya try to hard
main issue numba TWO: ya press down too hard. 

It's aint rocket science Big D. But like shootin the madder ya get at it the worse the results are.... sa back up take a breathe and leave em be fer a minute.

Now then. First and foremost ya bevel has got to be smooth...

So get you a sharpie and REBLACK the entire bevel. Now reach in all that 50 dollars worth of sharpenin stuff and find you a nice clean heavily chalked FILE. single cut mill bast.. well I can't type it here without the censor thinking I'm usin bad language, but ya know what cut I'm talkin about.

Two blades at once..... medium to solid pressure........ 8 strokes ....turn the head and hit two again, again medium to solid pressure (long smooth strokes) 8 strokes. turn the head AGAIN hit the last bevels....

by now?? all sharpie should be gone or almost gone and yer back at the start.... now SIX stroked, medium pressure...... turn and 7 strokes again, turn and six strokes again... back at the start and all sharpie is gone..... now ya gonna do 6 strokes with a medium light pressure...... after that ya gonna do 5 strokes with light pressure.... after that ya gonna do 4 strokes with even lighter pressure...... now ya just gonna gently glide the file across the bevels a couple times a piece as you turn it and smooth it... when I say gently?? the WIEGHT OF THE FILE BRO...... no more.

Once the bevel has been smooth and made even there's really no issue with getting them sharp enough to shave hair off your arm with nothing more than a file. The thing you have to realize is the bevel ANGLE is not the same as the bevel angle on a 2 blade therefore any slice test or feel test you try is gonna feel worse unless you adjust to the actual angle of the cut.


----------



## ChrisSpikes (Aug 30, 2010)

Maybe it's just a hangup I have, but I won't hunt with a head that I haven't shot at least a half dozen times.  I want to know it's mounted straight, and that it's going to fly right.

So it wouldn't do me any good if they did come sharp.  By the time I'm through testing them, they'd be dull anyway.


----------



## nimrodthehunter (Aug 30, 2010)

*Snuffers*



LanceColeman said:


> main issue numba ONE: ya try to hard
> main issue numba TWO: ya press down too hard.
> 
> It's aint rocket science Big D. But like shootin the madder ya get at it the worse the results are.... sa back up take a breathe and leave em be fer a minute.
> ...



That is how i do my snuffers, except I rotate each time, I do not do multiple strokes on each face without turning.  My snuffers pop the hairs off my arm in a matter of minutes.  I do the same thing with Montecs I shoot out of my C  c c c compound (sorry to use that word on this forum) haha.  I get the same results.  Good luck


----------



## devolve (Aug 30, 2010)

lance,

 How hard are you pushing to get the sharpie off? I just pulled a new one out of the pack painted it up and 10 minutes into it there is still black on the bevel. Only on one small part of the blade but its the same place on all three blades. The only way that can be possible is if the blades have an extreme bow in them.


----------



## devolve (Aug 30, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> main issue numba ONE: ya try to hard
> main issue numba TWO: ya press down too hard.
> 
> It's aint rocket science Big D. But like shootin the madder ya get at it the worse the results are.... sa back up take a breathe and leave em be fer a minute.
> ...



Just did this. no difference in outcome. Just to make sure im not crazy i grabbed an old magnus 2 blade and had it rediculouse sharp in 2 minutes. 

In order to get the sharpie off the blades I had to press so hard that the bh got hot from friction! This is the first time i have pressed that hard. all the other times i pressed lighter to start but I figured i would do it different this time. 

Im done with them. this makes 10 times today I tried to get one sharp. I will either shoot my 220 gr phantoms or go back to the two blades. this is not worth it, really sucks to cause they fly great.


----------



## LanceColeman (Aug 30, 2010)

OK,

answer me a cuple questions. Are these BRAZED woodsmans or elite machined woodsmans?? BRAZED woodsmans wer enotorious for having uneven bevels that took alot of work to even out.

When you run the file across the blade you should feel it "eating" metal. My fingernials are pretty pink when I start off D. I'm getting a bite and removing steel. I aint intrested in any sort of cleanliness or edge until I got the bevels equal and smooth.

If ya file is gliding or bouncing?? two thngs are happening. ya bevel is bad uneven, or ya file teeth are full of crud.

I sorry bro. I absolutely adore woodmans... they why I shoot terminators.


----------



## devolve (Aug 30, 2010)

they are the brazed kind. it glides, i keep the filed cleaned out with a nylon brush every 30 strokes or so. 

what are these terminators you speak of???? do they make a 150 gr?


----------



## Apex Predator (Aug 30, 2010)

The VPA terminators are the same as Woodsman Elites, and they are a much higher quality head that the original Woodsmans and Snuffers.  Some of the old ones sharpened pretty easily for me, but others were a nightmare that I could never get like I wanted.  All the VPAs I have tried already have a close to perfect bevel, and required minimal work.


----------



## LanceColeman (Aug 30, 2010)

I've had to lay some of the older woodsmans and snuffers on a belt sander to get the bevels true before I ever even touched them with a file.

Terminators are like the "elite" version of the woodsman elite. They could withstand a shade harder steel if ya ask me.. but they about as precise a head as you'll ever come across. They're like beyond montec quality.


----------



## returntoarchery (Aug 30, 2010)

Got a set of Eclipse single bevel last year and should not sharpen those for my life and year before I sharpened Snuffers just fine. So this year I got single edge grizzly broadhead and can sharpen them just fine. Have always been able to sharpen a knife like nobody's business. So as the others said true up the bevel to get a straight edge with a file then start the sharpening process.


----------



## Necedah (Aug 30, 2010)

D, I had the same problem last year with a set of Woodsmen's I bought. After spending hours and hours trying to sharpen them, I finally threw them away and went to a two bladed broadhead that I can sharpen and shave with in about a minute.

Dave


----------



## robert carter (Aug 30, 2010)

I can take a file to a woodsman ..old or new type and hitting two blades at once in about 3 minutes I`ll have the edge "even. Then I hold with very little file pressure for about 4-5 strokes per blade. rotate after each stroke . Real light circles on a diamond stone ...drag on a piece of leather backwards about twice each blade and it will shave hairs easy.A magnus 1 I can make shave with just a file and piece of leather.

  Most folks I`ve seen with sharpening problems were using a wore out file or using to much pressure like the Hillbilly said.

  I also shoot each head mounted on the arrow I`m gonna hunt it with several times. It builds confidence and for an instinctive shooter confidence helps accurracy a bunch.

  Only broadheads I`ve had I could`nt sharpen easy were Centuars. Chris had`m shaving in just a little while.I`m really not interested in owning heads anymore I can`t file sharpen and use. Seems as I get older simple comes to mind more and more.RC


----------



## LanceColeman (Aug 30, 2010)

Amen RC. A-M-E-N.

If I can't reach in my pocket or pack, grab a broke handled toothbrush and nock the dirt off it and then grab something like a file out of my pack and have it shaving and ready to hunt in 5 minutes?? I gots no use for it.


----------



## DePhil (Aug 31, 2010)

Here's what I use for Snuffers (works for Grizzly El Grande's, too).











The file is 17" from end to end and 1 1/2" wide.  It was new a couple of years ago and never gets used for anything but sharpening Snuffers.   I can file 2 edges at once.  As many before me have said, apply moderate pressure as you push the mounted broadhead toward the tang with long, even, continuous strokes.  I do one pair of edges and rotate to the next pair, continuing until I have bright metal the length of all edges.   I try to use the same number of strokes per edge to keep it balanced.  When I have shiny metal on all edges, I use lighter pressure all the way around, applying even ligher pressure after each couple of strokes until I have the edge I want.  Then hone and/or strop.


----------



## Barry Duggan (Aug 31, 2010)

Some folks might find it a bit strange, but I actually enjoy sharpening broadheads. And, have yet to run across one I couldn't sharpen.


----------



## LongBow01 (Aug 31, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> main issue numba ONE: ya try to hard
> main issue numba TWO: ya press down too hard.
> 
> It's aint rocket science Big D. But like shootin the madder ya get at it the worse the results are.... sa back up take a breathe and leave em be fer a minute.
> ...



Thank you for that lance that is much easier than usin all them stones I been usin!!! I get the same results either way but your way sho is faster and easier!!! Just one question? Whats the reason for chalkin the file?


----------



## Barry Duggan (Aug 31, 2010)

To help prevent the file from becoming clogged with metal particles.


----------



## devolve (Aug 31, 2010)

I know now why I cant get em sharp. i have the older ones and the bevel is shaped like a cresent moon. im going to need a belt sander to get the bevels where they need to be before i can think about getting them to a decent edge on a file or stone. terry from tradgang enlightened me on that one.


----------



## Rick Barbee (Aug 31, 2010)

ChrisSpikes said:


> Maybe it's just a hangup I have, but I won't hunt with a head that I haven't shot at least a half dozen times.  I want to know it's mounted straight, and that it's going to fly right.
> 
> So it wouldn't do me any good if they did come sharp.  By the time I'm through testing them, they'd be dull anyway.



That's me in a nut shell. Plus I enjoy sharpening stuff. It's just a little OCD thing I have going.


----------



## BkBigkid (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the snarling info and tips. 
I just sharpened up 19 broadheads. 
The hardest ones to do were the zwickey's took forever to get the right bevel going. Once I got that snarpening them was easy. 

Again thank you still have 6 more zwickey's to go!


----------



## SOS (Sep 1, 2010)

Another vote for what Chris said.  I will mount 6 broadheads, and spin test until I'm happy.  I then number the arrows and shoot them at individually numbered targets.  After at least a 1/2 dozen shots, I will put them in my quiver in order of best, most accurate group.  Any real dogs, I'll melt the glue, re-align and start over. 

As to sharpening different broadheads - all seems like black magic to me.  Just gotta try.


----------



## Cutem all Jack (Sep 2, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> main issue numba ONE: ya try to hard
> main issue numba TWO: ya press down too hard.
> 
> It's aint rocket science Big D. But like shootin the madder ya get at it the worse the results are.... sa back up take a breathe and leave em be fer a minute.
> ...



I am having a problem with my snuffers. The sharpie has worn of about 3/4 of my blades but about a 1/4 in down from the tip there is a 1/2 section that has not come off and that is after about 35 medium to heavy strokes. If you lay the blades on a flat surface it is obvious that the blades are not straight. Do you just keep filing until they get straight? If so your problably looking at 100 strokes on each blade?


----------



## LanceColeman (Sep 2, 2010)

Cutem all Jack said:


> I am having a problem with my snuffers. The sharpie has worn of about 3/4 of my blades but about a 1/4 in down from the tip there is a 1/2 section that has not come off and that is after about 35 medium to heavy strokes. If you lay the blades on a flat surface it is obvious that the blades are not straight. Do you just keep filing until they get straight? If so your problably looking at 100 strokes on each blade?



This is a perfect example of Magnus gettem packaged quality (sorry for all you magnus fans out there but they really need better QC! especially on 3 blade heads)

Original brazed Woodsmans and snuffers (NOT snuffer SS because these are more pricey and aimed at a larger than just trad audience) are notorious for having misaligned and or uneven bevels.

To get these straight it's going to take one of two things. One an absolute TON of file work.

Or two a blet sander turned upside down and clamped to a work surface or a bench top belt sander.

My weapon of preference?? 80 grit! anything finer than
80 grit on a hard steel like broadheads is merely a polisher. You get the blade too hot for too long and you aren;t removing enough steel. Anything LARGER or courser than 80 grit (say 50 or 60grit) removes steel at such a rapid pace you can ruin the tip very very easily/

MOUNT THE HEAD ON AN ARROW (now you can take one hand and firmly grasp the shaft and have a nice grip on it. use the free hand to HOLD THE UPWARD POINTING BLADE (gloves are a good idea)

ENSURE THE BLETSANDER IS TURNING THE BELT AWAY FROM YOU!! It it turns toward you you are risking injury, cannot control the blade plane as well and are asking to bury the tip in to the sanding belt.

Ever so gently with the sander running place two blades down on the surface...... do not apply any pressure other than their natural wieght until you can see and feel the blades are both laying flush with the surface of the sand paper.

Now gently press down and slightly move the side to side over the paper (not too much now)

DO NOT attempt to completely remove all the metal and flush the planes of the bevels in one run. I keep a glass of water handy. I place the blades down. I aplly a little pressure and start gently moving the head side to side and I count to myself up to 10, I then turn the head to the next set of blades and repeat the process. After  the third turn (which finishes the cycle) I dip the head in the glass of water. With gentle pressure I am not really as concerned with tempering the blader as much as I am heating up my hotmelt and loosening the head.

Now re sharpie your bevels, and give em a test run. If more belt time is need repeat the process. keep on repeating process until ya gottem smooth.


----------



## Cutem all Jack (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks for advise. I do not have a belt sander so i have just spent the last hour on it with a file. It is now shaving. But what I dont understand is the original question, Why cant they come even and Sharpened???? I deer hunt and goose hunt with mine so I have about 12 to 18 heads to do and i do not have the time to spend a hour on each one. Is there a 3 blade that is around the same price range that will come from a company with at least a little bit of Quality control?


----------



## Jake Allen (Sep 2, 2010)

Cutem all Jack said:


> Thanks for advise. I do not have a belt sander so i have just spent the last hour on it with a file. It is now shaving. But what I dont understand is the original question, Why cant they come even and Sharpened???? I deer hunt and goose hunt with mine so I have about 12 to 18 heads to do and i do not have the time to spend a hour on each one. Is there a 3 blade that is around the same price range that will come from a company with at least a little bit of Quality control?



I will hazard a guess: if someone is paid to straighen and sharpen each head, these heads would likely cost more than 25 bucks or so a six pack. 
(example: price 3 Silver Flames)
Lance's explaining on how to flatten these, IMO is spot on.
Wear safety glasses though. 

I hazard another guess that one could buy six 
Snuffers, a belt sander, belts, file and chalk for what 3 Silver Flames will cost. 
Plus, be able to resharpen the heads anytime needed.
There is, to me, a high level of personal satisfaction involved with doing somethings myself.

BK, you reckon 25 heads will be enough this season?


----------



## Apex Predator (Sep 2, 2010)

Buy some VPA Terminators and you will not have much trouble.  They are the absolutely truest three blade out of the package that I have seen.


----------



## Georgia Hard Hunter (Sep 2, 2010)

Last season I purchased a pack of Crimson Talon mechanical broadheads a week before the season, since they were the same broadhead and grain as the ones I had the bow tuned to I didn't think to check them. I got to the stand opening morning while sitting there fighting the urge to get down in the late morning I'm looking at the broadheads and notice that the yare so dull it won't cut my finger with quite a bit of pressue applied in short they are very dull. I'm sitting there upset about my dull broadheads and out steps a 100lb doe, I pull back and get a 30 yard shot broadside and I get a full pass thru with a great blood trail. I guess my question for the guys who know more than me is do you really need the broadhead to be razzor sharp with the force the arrow is carring?


----------



## BkBigkid (Sep 2, 2010)

Jake Allen said:


> BK, you reckon 25 heads will be enough this season?



That may be a under guess! 

I hope so,  of course different bows have a slightly different setup woods, aluminum and carbon. 
45# to 61#. Every time I think I have a go to bow I shoot another that's feels better???


----------



## bowyer (Sep 2, 2010)

For initial sharpening and carrying in the field , I use the little 4 inch hook sharpening file available in the fishing section of many outdoor stores . It is very compact and has very fine teeth that really bites into the metal of most broadheads, even the hard stainless ones. When sharpening a screw-in head, I attach them to to a 8 to  10 inch shaft cut from  broken arrow which gives me greater sharpening control  and  IMO safer than attaching to a full length arrow.


----------



## Apex Predator (Sep 2, 2010)

A dull blade will push aside rubbery stuff like arteries and veins that I want cut real bad.  On a perfect shot a field point will kill them.  I like my odds better with a scary sharp broadhead!


----------



## devolve (Sep 2, 2010)

Apex Predator said:


> A dull blade will push aside rubbery stuff like arteries and veins that I want cut real bad.  On a perfect shot a field point will kill them.  I like my odds better with a scary sharp broadhead!



you beat me to it


----------

