# But Now



## newnature (Feb 26, 2017)

The Gentiles were never promised a Messiah. “But Now” marks a great change. The very blood that was to initiate Israel’s New Covenant, believers have a fellowship in that. Believers have a communion with the second Adam’s blood. It’s the blood that redeemed believers as well. God wants believers to all think the same way, to all think along the same lines, to be on the same page when it comes to what’s happening in this Age of Grace. What God is doing today and how’s he doing it. Believers are called saints today, set apart ones. Saint is God’s word for a believer. God sets the believer apart. The Bible is really the story of two men and the people who are related to these two men. The issue for life everlasting is not what church you attend or to which denomination you belong or how religious you are or even whether or not you are a good person in the worldly sense of the word good. The issue in eternity will not be how many sins you’ve committed or how many sins you have promised God you will abstain from committing. It will not be whether you’ve walked an aisle, recited a particular prayer, or asked Jesus into your heart. â€¨

The issue in eternity will be to which man are you related? Do you have your identity in the first Adam, or do you have your identity in the second Adam, Jesus our Savior. You have to believe that the second Adam died, and not just died for your sins, but what was accomplished when he died for your sins; what was accomplished where those sins were concerned. You cannot be related or identified in both. What if Paul were found in the Savior having his own righteousness? What if that was the only way Paul could stand before God was to stand before God in his own righteousness? How did Paul end up Romans chapter 7? Oh wonderful Christian that I am? Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am. Paul wanted to be found before God not bearing his own righteousness for his purpose in being there, but having the Savior’s righteousness attributed freely to Paul’s account. That’s what he wanted. Understanding the truth of Romans 7:23 is not something to overcome but it’s a reality to be understood. We’ll never escape. You see, this is not something we could overcome, this is something Jesus had to overcome on our behalf and he did so on the tree of crucifixion. The battle within Paul proved to him that absolute impossibility of performance based righteousness. Paul always found himself a do short and a don’t late.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 26, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.



Does that mean the Gentiles were never promised a Messiah?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Isaiah 14:1
When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises.

Acts 2:39
This promise belongs to you and to your children and to all who are far off, to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself."


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

The Jew's were promised a Messiah,  but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.


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## newnature (Feb 26, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> The Jew's were promised a Messiah,  but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.



Most are going back to the 12, trying to rely upon what the 12 would tell them. How many know of Paul’s distinct message today? Are we moving toward truth or moving away form truth? The Savior did not send Paul to build upon or to add further truth to the message of those who preceded Paul. (Romans 15:20) The foundation they laid was of Jesus as Messiah to the nation Israel. The Messiah is promised to Israel for the ruling over of that Kingdom, that earthly Kingdom promised that nation. Paul would not to have wanted us to mix the message of the 12 in regard to God’s program to and with the nation Israel...with the message specifically given him for the Gentiles. Paul was given that brand new revelation. He would not have wanted us to add or mix earthly Kingdom truth with the message he dispensed. He went to great lengths to separate his ministry with the ministries of those before him. 1 Corinthians 3:10 - But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

newnature said:


> Most are going back to the 12, trying to rely upon what the 12 would tell them. How many know of Paul’s distinct message today? Are we moving toward truth or moving away form truth? The Savior did not send Paul to build upon or to add further truth to the message of those who preceded Paul. (Romans 15:20) The foundation they laid was of Jesus as Messiah to the nation Israel. The Messiah is promised to Israel for the ruling over of that Kingdom, that earthly Kingdom promised that nation. Paul would not to have wanted us to mix the message of the 12 in regard to God’s program to and with the nation Israel...with the message specifically given him for the Gentiles. Paul was given that brand new revelation. He would not have wanted us to add or mix earthly Kingdom truth with the message he dispensed. He went to great lengths to separate his ministry with the ministries of those before him. 1 Corinthians 3:10 - But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.




 Your thinking just as the Pharisee did.  They were mistaken,  so are you. 
 The physical nation of Israel being God's kingdom is no more,  never will be.  The Spiritual Kingdom of Christ reigns forever,  without end.


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## newnature (Feb 26, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Your thinking just as the Pharisee did.  They were mistaken,  so are you.
> The physical nation of Israel being God's kingdom is no more,  never will be.  The Spiritual Kingdom of Christ reigns forever,  without end.



Romans 13:9, man’s relationship to man...man’s relationship to God. Which category is missing in that listing? Man’s relationship to God is not included there. Why do you suppose Paul left that part out? The simple answer it this, God was demonstrating to Israel through the law that she could never achieve a righteous standing before him according to a performance contract. She could never merit a relationship with God based upon her own performance. That would be totally impossible. Is God dealing with believers today according to a law contract? No way, not according to our apostle. That’s why Paul leaves out that category of the law that dealt with man’s relationship with God. Paul boiled it down to one word, agape (Romans 13:8) because Romans chapters 1-8 tells us how it is that we are considered righteous in the eyes of God today. There is no scale in God’s mind other than the Savior’s righteousness.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

OK.  You completely lost me.


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## newnature (Feb 26, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> OK.  You completely lost me.



Much of religiondom and particular denominations have moved in and camped out, taken up residency on a permanent bases with Matthew 21:22. How’s that working for them? What are they going to do with John 15:7 when they’re praying for something in this Age of Grace and it’s not done? Is it going to shatter people’s faith? Are they going to say, “It’s me? It didn’t work for me. It worked over there for them. Don’t know why it didn’t work for me. Perhaps there’s some unconfessed sin in my life. Perhaps I’m not right with God.” See how this is ruining the faith of many people today. In that program where Jesus was speaking to Israel in conjunction with the land she’d been promised and him doing marvels among that nation in relation to the King being present, time for things to be out of the way, those Israelites could ask whatever they wanted to ask and it would be done unto them. In fact, the Bible says you have not because you ask not. That wasn’t written to you. That was written for Israel in relation to their coming Kingdom. God has made an entirely different set of provisions for the Grace Age believers this age.


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## newnature (Feb 26, 2017)

When we say God’s knows are heart, we are normally thinking of sincerity, but sincerity doesn’t cut it. The reconciliation Paul’s talking about was accomplished by God. He designed it. He provided the means by which it could be accomplished. So by the very words of God, Paul was telling people their reconciliation with God came not by their abstention from wicked deeds or evil deeds or by their commitment to the performance of good deeds or by a new measure of forgiveness that they might be able to procure for themselves...given they’re suitable sorry of course and sufficiently sincere when they ask for it and staunchly committed to do the dos and stop doing the don’ts in the future. Not by any of those things. That’s what Paul is talking about when he told people that their reconciliation is of God. How did God accomplish that reconciliation...and all things are of God...not you at all, but of God who has already reconciled us to himself.  How...by Jesus and has given to us not the issue of finding a way to accomplish it or to keep ourselves reconciled to God. But what did he give to us...2 Corinthians 5:19.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

I believe Jesus is speaking to His disciples in both Matthew and John.  The gifts He gave them do not extend to us.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 26, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> The Jew's were promised a Messiah,  but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.



I know it will not be restored to them alone as the Gentiles were grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel. I wonder how it happened as explained in Romans 11:25-29?

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 26, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I know it will not be restored to them alone as the Gentiles were grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel. I wonder how it happened as explained in Romans 11:25-29?
> 
> 25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.




All Israel will be saved... Remember all that was of Israel was not Israel.  The removing godlessness from Jacob was the destruction in 70ad....Paul is explaining to the Gentiles here.. Even though these Jew's are enemies to the Gospel,  they are of the Patriarchs and loved for that....  The church in Jerusalem tried bringing in the Hebrews to the faith of Christ to the last minute. When they saw the army's compassing the city they had to flee.. 

As Luke 21 says,  the fulfillment of all things written was about to come.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 27, 2017)

"A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"

"regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."

"God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable."

If we continue;

Romans 11:31-33
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.  33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!

Is it possible since we don't know the "ways" of God and that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy? That God can temporarily harden individuals to make his plan come about and then open these same individuals eyes later to show mercy?

Perhaps this is what God did to Saul. He hardened him for a mission and later opened his eyes.


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> I believe Jesus is speaking to His disciples in both Matthew and John.  The gifts He gave them do not extend to us.



Let’s suppose that God had not separated out a brand new apostle with a brand new message for a brand new creation called the Body of the Savior. Imagine with me for a moment that God had allowed that kingdom program to continue on as some believe today. What message would we as Gentiles, have heard under those circumstances, had that program continued on? You see, according to Israel’s program, when the messiah was cut off according to the 483 years of Daniel’s prophesy fulfilled, the time for that nation to come to their last days prior to the entrance of their kingdom had come close to hand. Only 7 years remained at that period of time on Israel’s prophecy clock before the earthly kingdom would be set up and the messiah would be ruling and reigning on the throne. The tribulation was on its way when Pentecost took place. These are the last day Joel was talking about. If God had not put Israel’s program on the shelf, he would be gathering Gentiles, and bringing them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3:9-16) At the culmination of the tribulation period, Gentiles are going to be coming against the nation Israel. The Gentiles will be the bullies when this day arrives. Jesus is coming to stand up for that remnant and who will the messiah be coming to fight? The Gentiles.


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> "A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"
> 
> "regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."
> 
> ...



When Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles was getting underway before God’s Word was complete...was send a handkerchief in order for God through his power from on high to jump into action and perform a miraculous sign for the sick. (Acts 19:11-12) Do you believe that someone could send you a handkerchief and with that handkerchief you're just automatically going to be healed of all manner of sickness and disease? God certainly worked that way in that day. But, Paul himself, revealed a change that was to take place as the ascended Savior let Paul know that change would be coming. 1 Corinthians 13:8, these were  signed gifts; the ability to proclaim God’s message prior to the completion of God’s Word through the supernatural empowerment of God’s power from on high. â€¨

1 Corinthians 13:9, it would have been impossible for the prophets of that day, those proclaiming the truth of God before the completed Word of God to reveal all the knowledge of God that would be contained in that completed Word of God. Paul’s epistles were to be passed from assembly to assembly, but keep in mind, he’d only completed 3 letters up to the point of what he’s telling us right here. All the written word the saints had up to that time, pertaining to the dispensation of grace was Galatians and the two letters to the saints at Thessalonica. Paul kept getting more revelations from the ascended Savior on what to tell us and the way God’s working with us today.  â€¨

1 Corinthians 13:10, when that which was to be finished comes to completion, there would be no need for the sign gifts to remain in operation. What was unfinished at that time? Paul’s writings to the Body of the Savior of this age!2 Corinthians 12:7-10, notice the change in operation that was beginning to take place in this new, previously undisclosed dispensation. What revelations? The revealing of the secret that God had been keeping where we Gentiles are concerned in light of Israel’s program being placed on the shelf for a time; the revelations concerning the change in program relative to the new dispensation God was ushering in. â€¨

2 Timothy 4:19-20, Trophimus have I left at Miletum SICK. No handkerchief, no anointing with oil, no laying on of hands, no naming it and claiming it, no power of a positive confession, no seed faith sowing, no prayer of faith prayer meeting mentioned whatsoever, just the truth resident in Ephesians 3:20 in light of God’s change of operation in connection with his new program and the dispensation of the grace of God. We can now trust the truth of Romans 8:28.


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## j_seph (Feb 27, 2017)

In layman terms, what are you trying to prove, disprove, make a point about with this post sir?


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

j_seph said:


> In layman terms, what are you trying to prove, disprove, make a point about with this post sir?



Satan would say, “Why, that can not be right!” (So do a lot of people by the way) “God can not be just and call a person righteous when it’s obvious that person falls short of the standard God himself set when he gave Israel the law contract.” Satan is offering people a way to become righteous; to achieve a righteous standing before God and he always attaches people’s performance; people’s fingerprints are found on Satan’s method of becoming righteous. Romans 3:24, being declared righteous is God’s gift to the believing sinner and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinner themselves doing anything to deserve or merit that righteous standing. The righteousness God credits to the account of the believer is a righteousness that comes without a cause in the one being declared so. Those steeped in religiondom, and it’s not confined to those in religiondom, but those steeped in religiondom raise the same objection every Sunday, if not every day.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 27, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> "A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"
> 
> "regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."
> 
> ...



If you do a short study and research on God blinding Israel,  you will see it means they are being disobedient,  and always when Israel was blind in the past was just before a coming of the Lord... When God would use another nation to come down on them. 

God was squeezing out every last true Israelite that would believe.  This is bring in all the nations,  the ten northern tribes that the two sticks would be one.

 When at first the Israelites did not believe,  God brought in the Gentiles so the non believers could look on and see the pouring out of the Spirit on them.  This was suppose to give them faith that Jesus is Lord... Those that rejected to the end.. 70ad. Were the wicked removed from Jacob.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 27, 2017)

newnature said:


> Let’s suppose that God had not separated out a brand new apostle with a brand new message for a brand new creation called the Body of the Savior. Imagine with me for a moment that God had allowed that kingdom program to continue on as some believe today. What message would we as Gentiles, have heard under those circumstances, had that program continued on? You see, according to Israel’s program, when the messiah was cut off according to the 483 years of Daniel’s prophesy fulfilled, the time for that nation to come to their last days prior to the entrance of their kingdom had come close to hand. Only 7 years remained at that period of time on Israel’s prophecy clock before the earthly kingdom would be set up and the messiah would be ruling and reigning on the throne. The tribulation was on its way when Pentecost took place. These are the last day Joel was talking about. If God had not put Israel’s program on the shelf, he would be gathering Gentiles, and bringing them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3:9-16) At the culmination of the tribulation period, Gentiles are going to be coming against the nation Israel. The Gentiles will be the bullies when this day arrives. Jesus is coming to stand up for that remnant and who will the messiah be coming to fight? The Gentiles.



I don't believe in your replacement theology.  The Gentiles ( Romans) came against apostate Israel in 70ad..completely destroyed Judaism. The remnant was those that believed in Christ. Christianity is the continuation of God's true religion not a temporary replacement.


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> I don't believe in your replacement theology.  The Gentiles ( Romans) came against apostate Israel in 70ad..completely destroyed Judaism. The remnant was those that believed in Christ. Christianity is the continuation of God's true religion not a temporary replacement.



Because of ministers of righteousness people continue to operated today in their thinking, nothings really changed. Their people are under the assumption that their sin debt is separation from God. If an ounce of new reconciliation in this Age of Grace could be restored for anyone when it comes to the issue of their sin debt then the degree of forgiveness that must be obtained in order to restore the reconciliation is the very degree to which that individual refuses to believe that Jesus accomplished it all. Paul’s good news message is hid from those people. They don’t understand what reconciliation is all about. They think that new sin (as Israel’s atonement work) needs a new measure of reconciliation. So they seek forgiveness on the installment plan. Is that not the golden thread woven through every denomination out there? It is. The issue at the Great White Throne Judgement will be those standing there in their own righteousness and not in God’s righteousness.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 27, 2017)

newnature said:


> Because of ministers of righteousness people continue to operated today in their thinking, nothings really changed. Their people are under the assumption that their sin debt is separation from God. If an ounce of new reconciliation in this Age of Grace could be restored for anyone when it comes to the issue of their sin debt then the degree of forgiveness that must be obtained in order to restore the reconciliation is the very degree to which that individual refuses to believe that Jesus accomplished it all. Paul’s good news message is hid from those people. They don’t understand what reconciliation is all about. They think that new sin (as Israel’s atonement work) needs a new measure of reconciliation. So they seek forgiveness on the installment plan. Is that not the golden thread woven through every denomination out there? It is. The issue at the Great White Throne Judgement will be those standing there in their own righteousness and not in God’s righteousness.




 The issue at the Great White Throne Judgment was to separate the Sheep from the Goats . That issue is mission accomplished.


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> The issue at the Great White Throne Judgment was to separate the Sheep from the Goats . That issue is mission accomplished.



Israel supposed they were producing sufficient righteousness through their performance for God to recognize their performance and call them just in his eyes. They thought they were measuring up to God’s standard. How many people think they’re measuring up to God’s standard today? The religious people across the land are doing that very thing. Israel wore their self righteousness like a badge of honor.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 27, 2017)

newnature said:


> Israel supposed they were producing sufficient righteousness through their performance for God to recognize their performance and call them just in his eyes. They thought they were measuring up to God’s standard. How many people think they’re measuring up to God’s standard today? The religious people across the land are doing that very thing. Israel wore their self righteousness like a badge of honor.



True Israel did measure up to God's standard and they believed.  They were the Sheep in which Jesus came for. 

Apostate Israel rejected Jesus and faced the wrath of God in 70ad. They were the goats.


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## newnature (Feb 27, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> True Israel did measure up to God's standard and they believed.  They were the Sheep in which Jesus came for.
> 
> Apostate Israel rejected Jesus and faced the wrath of God in 70ad. They were the goats.



The criteria for salvation is repentance and repentance means turning away from sinning or, at least, a commitment to turn away from your sinning. This is what is commonly taught from the pulpits across the country, from the pulpits of pastors who REFUSE to acknowledge the truth of 2 Corinthians 5:18-21. Has sin been taken off the table of God’s justice through Jesus’ death for those sins according to the apostle Paul, or has it not? Now, how many people not understanding Justification or Sanctification will look at 1 Corinthians 9:27 and say, “See there! If you don’t live right, if you just let that flesh run wild, why, you’re going to be a castaway, you’re going to lose your salvation.” They take one passage while ignoring everything else, out of its context. A passage out of its context is a pretext, and so their pretext is you can lose your salvation which is foolishness. 

How many of us share Paul’s concern today when it comes to the life we live out of appreciation, not out of apprehension, or out of an attempt to earn a more righteous standing before God? What Paul is telling us here is not how he set himself apart in order to gain a greater righteousness before God through his performance, but how he made his life-style (to the best he could) conform to who God has already made him to be in his sanctified or set-apart identity being joined to the Savior that he might more affectively reach others. That was Paul’s key motivation. There is a vast difference in those two motivations.


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## hobbs27 (Feb 27, 2017)

Do you do telecommunication sales for a living?  If not,  you have really missed your calling.


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## centerpin fan (Feb 27, 2017)

newnature said:


> The criteria for salvation is repentance and repentance means turning away from sinning or, at least, a commitment to turn away from your sinning.



You need to go to Vectorman's Bible study and unlearn this nonsense.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=892884


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## gordon 2 (Feb 27, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> You need to go to Vectorman's Bible study and unlearn this nonsense.
> 
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=892884



Your so helpful lately with your buds. I  wait with wonder for the blooms. Really.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 27, 2017)

I understand salvation is based on grace but in the separation of the sheep and goats it appears to be based on works?

Matthew 25:35-37
35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I understand salvation is based on grace but in the separation of the sheep and goats it appears to be based on works?
> 
> Matthew 25:35-37
> 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
> ...



Right... and I suspect what makes this truth is that God did these things for the Hebrew captives and the Christians ( former captives) and advised them to "TAKE GOOD CARE OF THE STRANGER AMONGST YOU". God fed them, healed them, clothed them, gave them to drink and ministered to them --to these stiffnecked  people. And He did this out of His love for them...

In very crude terms our Lord heard their/our troubles and identified that our shoes, the shoes of both sinners and saints, are His shoes. Maybe.

"....and he shall bear their iniquities."


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## newnature (Feb 28, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Right... and I suspect what makes this truth is that God did these things for the Hebrew captives and the Christians ( former captives) and advised them to "TAKE GOOD CARE OF THE STRANGER AMONGST YOU". God fed them, healed them, clothed them, gave them to drink and ministered to them --to these stiffnecked  people. And He did this out of His love for them...
> 
> In very crude terms our Lord heard their/our troubles and identified that our shoes, the shoes of both sinners and saints, are His shoes. Maybe.
> 
> "....and he shall bear their iniquities."



Paul is letting us know here in the book of Romans that God didn’t make Heaven for good people, God made Heaven for sinners who are justified freely by his grace. There are a lot of misconceived notions out there concerning the doctrines of faith, are there not? We have a self-sanctification in the positive sense of separating ourselves from those things we know that are not good for us or not good for others, not in order to merit any more righteousness before God through that performance, but in light of all that God has already made us to be in the Savior. On the opposite end of that self-sanctification spectrum, we have those who suppose that their behavior is the source of their right standing with God. That's self-sanctification negatively. They suppose that becoming more righteous in practice will make them more righteous in God’s sight. Faulty thinking! Paul called it foolish. It will not gain you Heaven. You will only be standing in your own righteousness at the Great White Throne Judgment only to face the second death. Whether they will admit it or not these people link practical righteousness with their salvation to some degree. â€¨

The Word of our salvation washes away any notion of self-cleansing for righteousness as an approach to God. Paul’s good news message rinses any notion of people’s production as the basis of a right standing before God right down the drain and leaves the believer standing only in the purified state of the Savior’s righteousness. It could be said this way: the washing that the Word of God rightly divided provides, cleanses the tidy-bowl of people’s religious stinkin’ thinkin’. Away it goes right down the drain. Only when the truth of reconciliation achieved through Jesus is believed, does a new creation become a reality as far as that individual is concerned. The new creation hinges upon the acceptance that Jesus accomplished reconciliation. The new creation is who you stand to be in the Savior. A new creation is your new identity in the Savior. It’s not how you perform in a different way, or strive to perform in differently, or make commitments to perform differently. It all has to do with your being placed into the Savior. That’s the new creation. When a person believes in the reality of reconciliation, that person becomes an instantaneous member of the new creation called the Body of the Savior; joined to him.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 28, 2017)

I understand Paul teaching a notion of self-cleansing for righteousness being no part of salvation.
Yet we see a separation of the sheep and goats in Matthew that was based on works. Could it be a sanctification from God instead of a self-sanctification that would be the basis for one acquiring the ability to perform those works? 
Why was this separation of the sheep and goats by works even mentioned? 
Why does God place these works in the salvation equation he uses for the separation, if said works are from his Spirit?

John 15:4
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 1, 2017)

Concerning the sheep and goats, I'm going to have to say this was about the judgment of nations as Matthew 25:32 says it is nations;

32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  

Is it possible that some scripture explains physical judgments and
physical salvations from destruction that we confuse with our own salvation from eternal death?

Maybe the sheep and goats separation is about this as it concerns nations and not individuals.  I see a lot of scripture that appears to be addressing nations and not individuals.

Individual salvation from eternal death is based on grace and not works.


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