# 10 gauge opinions?



## fishndinty (Feb 10, 2010)

Guys,
I am thinking about buying a 10 gauge for fun to blast at ducks and geese from farther out.  Are there any bargain priced guns in this category?

is it worth it compared to a 3.5 inch 12 gauge?


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## castaway (Feb 10, 2010)

seems like the pain and cost of shells wouldnt be worth it, but thats just me


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## over&under (Feb 10, 2010)

A 10 ga will not reach any further than a 12 ga


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 10, 2010)

i would love to have one but i just love guns. i have heard that a 10 w/ the same payload will pattern better than a 3.5 12 due to the different shape of the shot colum. felt recoil is not as bad w/ a 10 but they are HEAVY to carry. if you dont mind the weight and the issue of ammo price and availability i say go for it. you will never have too many guns.


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 10, 2010)

over&under said:


> A 10 ga will not reach any further than a 12 ga



and a 12 wont raech any farther than a .410, the diff. is payload, size and shape of the shot colum.


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## injun joe (Feb 10, 2010)

Had one, gave it up.If you get one, you will never be lonely because you'll end up taking someone along to carry it for you.


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## over&under (Feb 10, 2010)

wareagle5.0 said:


> and a 12 wont raech any farther than a .410, the diff. is payload, size and shape of the shot colum.



Exactly


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## fishndinty (Feb 10, 2010)

Anybody know of one that won't break the bank?

I was thinkin about an NEF single shot one.  Bet the recoil would be "brisk"  

I love recoil!


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## Sargent (Feb 10, 2010)

1. Jack up the front end of your vehicle.
2. Position your shooting shoulder underneath the front left tire.
3. Have a buddy suddenly rip the jack out from the car.
4. Enjoy the same sensation, without the cost.


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## PaulD (Feb 10, 2010)

fishndinty said:


> I love recoil!



Kinky!

You can't kill any farther with a 10 than a 12. It's true, Physics and gravity are so cruel. A 10ga in most people's hands on this forum would likely only promote skybusting.


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## Mr7mag (Feb 10, 2010)

*10 Guage*

I used to own an Ithaca Mag10.  I used it for Turkey not waterfowl, but the end result is the same. Shoot the Turkey, clean the turkey and then get my wife to drive me to the chiroprator because I can't move my neck! That is true, 2 times. I no longer have that gun, thank goodness.


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## Golden BB (Feb 10, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Kinky!
> 
> You can't kill any farther with a 10 than a 12. It's true, Physics and gravity are so cruel. A 10ga in most people's hands on this forum would likely only promote skybusting.


 
Agreed 100%. Majority of people on here will not be able to kill any farther than with a 12.  If YOU have the capability of successfully shooting farther and match it with a 10 that will consistantly hold a good pattern farther out then you have a deadly combo.

And as far as recoil, my 10 kicks less than a 20ga.  If weight is an issue, leave your man bag at home.


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## garndawg (Feb 10, 2010)

Sargent said:


> 1. Jack up the front end of your vehicle.
> 2. Position your shooting shoulder underneath the front left tire.
> 3. Have a buddy suddenly rip the jack out from the car.
> 4. Enjoy the same sensation, without the cost.




This made me laugh...so true...


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## GTN (Feb 10, 2010)

Golden BB said:


> Agreed 100%. Majority of people on here will not be able to kill any farther than with a 12.  If YOU have the capability of successfully shooting farther and match it with a 10 that will consistantly hold a good pattern farther out then you have a deadly combo.
> 
> And as far as recoil, my 10 kicks less than a 20ga.  If weight is an issue, leave your man bag at home.



Agreed 100%


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## PaulD (Feb 10, 2010)

Golden BB said:


> And as far as recoil, my 10 kicks less than a 20ga.  If weight is an issue, leave your man bag at home.




I'm mounting wheels on my hard case for next year.


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 10, 2010)

Golden BB said:


> Agreed 100%. Majority of people on here will not be able to kill any farther than with a 12.  If YOU have the capability of successfully shooting farther and match it with a 10 that will consistantly hold a good pattern farther out then you have a deadly combo.
> 
> And as far as recoil, my 10 kicks less than a 20ga.  If weight is an issue, leave your man bag at home.



i agree 100%


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## grim (Feb 10, 2010)

A pump or single shot is gonna kick like a mule.  An auto will be much less.  I looked at them long and hard a number of years ago, but decided the cost and availability of shells just didnt make sense.


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## castaway (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a friend that owns a single shot 10ga. When I asked him about recoil he just laughed...I would stick with an auto.


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## Cottontail (Feb 10, 2010)

If you have more powder the shot has to go further thats common sense!!You know a 12 has more powder than a 410. If there were no diffrence why did they start making 12 guage 3.5 i tell you why to compete with a 10 guage,the 12 guage 3 inch couldnt do it .Get a 12 guage 3.5 it will handle it with less recoil.


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## PaulD (Feb 10, 2010)

Buckmaster32 said:


> If you have more powder the shot has to go further thats common sense!!.




Incorrect. Major incorrect. it's not common scense that determines the distance that a shot travels, it's the laws of physics.

F=MxA

Combustion of common gun powder: 2 KNO3 + S + 3 C → K2S + N2 + 3 CO2. 

This is assuming a few characteristics that you will find different in modern powders but you get the point. It's common scense!

Then you have propulsion.........


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## fishndinty (Feb 10, 2010)

A denser pattern gives you longer range capability though....1 and 3/8 oz of shot will pattern thicker at 60 yards than 1 and 1/8, right?

So it does help range, just not for the reasons most erroneously believe.

With heavier than lead shells, it could be a legit 80 yard killer.  

Wonder what the recoil would be like with a single shot and hevi-shot 3.5 load.


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## grim (Feb 10, 2010)

fishndinty said:


> Wonder what the recoil would be like with a single shot and hevi-shot 3.5 load.



You would only need to shoot it once to remember.


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## PaulD (Feb 10, 2010)

fishndinty said:


> A denser pattern gives you longer range capability though....1 and 3/8 oz of shot will pattern thicker at 60 yards than 1 and 1/8, right?




Now it's getting interesting! I was thinking out of the bunch it would be you! 

Possibly,what variables would determine this?  

Also remember no matter how thick the pattern is it's forced has already greatly deminished due to the volocity decreasing....huuuhhuuummmm



........-----------------Grim is right about the last comment!


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## bhamby (Feb 10, 2010)

buy a 30-06  and you can swat um from a tree lounge at 30 foot high even farther


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## 01Foreman400 (Feb 10, 2010)

I would stick with a 12 ga.


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## JWF III (Feb 10, 2010)

> If there were no diffrence why did they start making 12 guage 3.5 i tell you why to compete with a 10 guage,the 12 guage 3 inch couldnt do it .Get a 12 guage 3.5 it will handle it with less recoil.



They came out with the 3 1/2"  12 ga. because of steel shot. When you get to the larger shot (BBB-F) there is a seriously small number of shot in a 3". Yes 3" will kill geese, but with the larger payload, it increases the pattern density on target. Less holes in a pattern = more dead birds.

Generally speaking, a 10 ga. and a 3 1/2" 12 ga. are ballistically the same. They shoot the same payload, at (about) the same velocity. (There are exceptions, but I'm speaking generally.) The 3 1/2" 12 ga. does this with a higher pressure. When you add it all up, the same load, through a smaller hole, resulting in higher pressure, equals one thing... More recoil. Don't believe me? Try it.

As a recoil junky myself, I always wanted to have a 10 ga. At the time I had an old 835 (still have), a friend had just got an NEF 10 ga. (single shot). I shot his (and he shot mine), just to see what the others were like. I was very disappointed. The 835 hammered it (pun intended) in the recoil department. (And the 835 weighed more than the NEF.) He has never asked to shoot it since. (This was with turkey loads in each.)

Wyman


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 10, 2010)

ah ha, but the 835 is back bored to near 10ga. how do you explain that?


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## fishndinty (Feb 10, 2010)

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=72830

This could be fun out of a single shot....


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## slayer1 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a cousin thst shoots a 10 gauge auto and in our early years 20 years ago he could not shoot a 12 guage that well.  He went to a 10 guage about 10 years ago when his boss , an owner of a large grading company started having clients flown up to the Dakotas for several weeks out of the year for duck hunting.  My cousin and another fellow were scouts, guides and dog handlers.  The reason he went to a 10 gauge is to kill the cripples on the water and the shots he would have on unshot ducks would be long shot at birds climbing out of the holes/fields they were shooting.  The way I understand it is he bought the gun and his boss paid for all of the ammo.  I don't know if his shooting has gotten better due to experience or what but I do know when we hunt together and he brings his 10 guage almost everything he shoots  at within 50 yards falls out of the sky.


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## shortstroke (Feb 10, 2010)

Sargent said:


> 1. Jack up the front end of your vehicle.
> 2. Position your shooting shoulder underneath the front left tire.
> 3. Have a buddy suddenly rip the jack out from the car.
> 4. Enjoy the same sensation, without the cost.


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## kscoggins (Feb 10, 2010)

Got a BPS 10 right b4 the end of season.  Took it on the last day and shot a triple on some gadwal.  First 2 fell stone cold dead and badly cripple the last bird which was flying straight away from me around 50 yds or better.  Not gonna hunt with it every hunt.  But goose hunts in fields 4 sure and open water sometimes.  Its just kinda fun to whip it out and everybody go "what the heck was that" when the first shots are fired.  Patterned some turkey loads with it and to be honest I think the recoil was slightly less than my 870 supermag.


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## Jaker (Feb 11, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Incorrect. Major incorrect. it's not common scense that determines the distance that a shot travels, it's the laws of physics.
> 
> F=MxA
> 
> ...



Well, since I am on here instead of studying for my physics test tomorrow, I will atleast add a little insight into the problem. 

As stated above, Force = MassXacceleration. From the above stated formulas I have seen nothing except a few copied words off of a google search. If you examine the formula in depth, you will see that a 10ga obviously has more force than a 12ga. A 10ga has a greater amount of shot( i.e. mass) and also a greater amount of powder(i.e. your propulsion of the mass, which causes acceleration). Now, I don't have time to look up the payloads, but assuming that the ratio of oz of shot to powder, was equal to that of a 12ga as someone stated above, then the total force would have to be greater as there is a greater amount of shot and powder at the same ratio as found in a ten gauge. You multiply to bigger numbers together and get a bigger number for those of you that aren't following. All of this aside, F=MA is not even the correct formula although close enough. For an object bound within a cylinder the formula is F=nv/4L. 

On top of that, for the sake of killing ducks, you have the problem of hitting the target once the shot goes a certain distance becuase it spreads so much. If you have More shot in the air, it is common sense that you will have more pellets hitting a duck at 60 yards than a 12ga. Now whether it is a huge difference in numbers I do not know. Now back to studying


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 11, 2010)

Jaker said:


> Well, since I am on here instead of studying for my physics test tomorrow, I will atleast add a little insight into the problem.
> 
> As stated above, Force = MassXacceleration. From the above stated formulas I have seen nothing except a few copied words off of a google search. If you examine the formula in depth, you will see that a 10ga obviously has more force than a 12ga. A 10ga has a greater amount of shot( i.e. mass) and also a greater amount of powder(i.e. your propulsion of the mass, which causes acceleration). Now, I don't have time to look up the payloads, but assuming that the ratio of oz of shot to powder, was equal to that of a 12ga as someone stated above, then the total force would have to be greater as there is a greater amount of shot and powder at the same ratio as found in a ten gauge. You multiply to bigger numbers together and get a bigger number for those of you that aren't following. All of this aside, F=MA is not even the correct formula although close enough. For an object bound within a cylinder the formula is F=nv/4L.
> 
> On top of that, for the sake of killing ducks, you have the problem of hitting the target once the shot goes a certain distance becuase it spreads so much. If you have More shot in the air, it is common sense that you will have more pellets hitting a duck at 60 yards than a 12ga. Now whether it is a huge difference in numbers I do not know. Now back to studying



i would think that all else being equal( payload, powder charge weight, shot size) that the 10ga would still have a slight edge(as far as pattern density) over the 12ga. just because of the shorter, fatter shot colum. but mabye it wouldn't be enough to argue about.
what i meant in an earlier post was that pellet for pellet a 10ga doesn't kill any better or "shoot" any farther than a 410ga given the same  size pellet and speed.


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## PaulD (Feb 11, 2010)

Jake, you may want to think a little harder before making the statement you just made. You viewed mass as the total of the payload. You are incorrect in doing this as once the shot leaves the cup its mass is transfered from the mass of the total payload to the mass of the individual pellet. so a #6 is a #6 is a #6 unless you change the property of the shot by changing the make up of the elements that compose it, but instead of thinking about this you over looked the most obvious thing that everyone over looks! To increase kill range you need to increase total mass, which is best done by increasing the amount of time that the shot stays in the cup.

 Back to your studies, and call me when you have graduated and spent a little time working, instead of trying to insult those who have been there!


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 11, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Jake, you may want to think a little harder before making the statement you just made. You viewed mass as the total of the payload. You are incorrect in doing this as once the shot leaves the cup its mass is transfered from the mass of the total payload to the mass of the individual pellet. so a #6 is a #6 is a #6 unless you change the property of the shot by changing the make up of the elements that compose it, but instead of thinking about this you over looked the most obvious thing that everyone over looks! To increase kill range you need to increase total mass, which is best done by increasing the amount of time that the shot stays in the cup.
> 
> 
> Back to your studies, and call me when you have graduated and spent a little time working, instead of trying to insult those who have been there!



THIS is what i was trying to say, thank you.


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## PaulD (Feb 11, 2010)

Jake's a smart guy. He's on the right track! less the being a hater.  


The main point still stands, buying a 10ga will probably just increase a persons likely hood to skybust. Plus a 50+ yard shot is a hard shot for the best shooters.


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## kscoggins (Feb 11, 2010)

This works for the 3 vs 3.5 or the 10 guage debate.  More shot allows you to shoot a larger pellet (which will carry energy further) and keep the same amount of total pellets.


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## DuckGodLiaison (Feb 11, 2010)

My head hurts............maybe thats why i got a business degree!


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## PaulD (Feb 11, 2010)

kscoggins said:


> This works for the 3 vs 3.5 or the 10 guage debate.  More shot allows you to shoot a larger pellet (which will carry energy further) and keep the same amount of total pellets.



Bingo, that's why they made a 3.5" 10ga.

DGL, everyone was doing that when I was in college and I wanted to be different. 
I thought liberal sciences and arts were the way to go so I sat in a classroom with all the real "different" people.


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## Jaker (Feb 11, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Jake, you may want to think a little harder before making the statement you just made. You viewed mass as the total of the payload. You are incorrect in doing this as once the shot leaves the cup its mass is transfered from the mass of the total payload to the mass of the individual pellet. so a #6 is a #6 is a #6 unless you change the property of the shot by changing the make up of the elements that compose it, but instead of thinking about this you over looked the most obvious thing that everyone over looks! To increase kill range you need to increase total mass, which is best done by increasing the amount of time that the shot stays in the cup.
> 
> Back to your studies, and call me when you have graduated and spent a little time working, instead of trying to insult those who have been there!



you are correct, it was pretty late when I wrote that last night, and skipped the obvious. So you are saying that a greater shell length was created with the 3&1/2" shell so that there could be a greater mass to each object while being probelled at the same velocity and shot count as a 3" with a smaller shot size. Makes sense, but also makes sense that if you shoot 2's out of a 12, that you could shoot BB's out of a 10 and have greater killing ability with the same number of shot.


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## PaulD (Feb 11, 2010)

Jaker said:


> you are correct, it was pretty late when I wrote that last night, and skipped the obvious. So you are saying that a greater shell length was created with the 3&1/2" shell so that there could be a greater mass to each object while being probelled at the same velocity and shot count as a 3" with a smaller shot size. Makes sense, but also makes sense that if you shoot 2's out of a 12, that you could shoot BB's out of a 10 and have greater killing ability with the same number of shot.




In the words of Samual L. Jackson- CORRECT-O-MUNDO!


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## mallardk (Feb 11, 2010)

i dropped back to 3" instead of 3 1/2 this year on ducks and noticed no real difference except for kick and wallet not as light.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 11, 2010)

castaway said:


> seems like the pain and cost of shells wouldnt be worth it, but thats just me


 
3" 12 gauge shells kill just as dead, just get them in close and know your gun, they will not know the difference.


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## bobman (Feb 11, 2010)

The people that think a 12 will kill like a 10 probably haven't used a 10 much

I've killed hundreds of ducks with my 10 and they fall like they are hit with a ton of bricks 

rarely have a winged bird cupp its wings and glide off for a tough retrieve , really never happens.  I've been shooting a 10 since 1965 went to a Ithica 10 auto when they came out that gun doesn't kick any harder than a 12 pump maybe even a little less felt because of the action and it weighs about 11 lbs.

Its will kill a turkey cleanly at 65 of my paces which are a yard. Its is heavy for turkey hunting though.
 ( I think its 34inches might be 32)
I love mine.... the heavy weight gun with its 34 inch barrel helps your follow through when swinging on a bird so I can hit very well with it.


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## bobman (Feb 11, 2010)

the bore size allows a larger weight shot charge to pattern well

the shot speed is the same as other guages but the larger quantity by weight allows you to use larger shot size and not lose pattern density 

larger shot which is heavier retains the speed further and delivers more energy at any range because of the mass increase of each piece of shot


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## georgiaboy (Feb 11, 2010)

bobman said:


> the bore size allows a larger weight shot charge to pattern well
> 
> the shot speed is the same as other guages but the larger quantity by weight allows you to use larger shot size and not lose pattern density
> 
> larger shot which is heavier retains the speed further and delivers more energy at any range because of the mass increase of each piece of shot


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## Headsortails (Feb 11, 2010)

I was looking at a 10 gauge in a gun shop a while back. It was for sale with a box of shells. I opened the box and two were missing. When I asked the guy at the gun store about the two missing shells, he said the gun had had two owners.


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## FireDoc (Feb 11, 2010)

I got a single shot Harrington & Richardson "Ten Thirty Special" 10g. my grandfather bought @ a DU banquet back in the early 80's. I shot it this past season. I'll NEVER do that again. Had a bruise on shoulder for 2 wks. I also have the little brother to that gun, single shot 20g youth model Harrington & Richardson "Greenwing Special" that I started hunting on and it also kicks like a mule.


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## PaulD (Feb 11, 2010)

Go with a SP-10. The recoil isn't as bad as a 12 pump. I want nothing to do with a 10Ga single shot! As far as killing. A 10 is a good choice when you are stepping up shot size. no doubt. personally for shooting geese and divers when you want that bigger shot and knock down power a 10ga with a controlled flight wad will flat get it done! Around here though when the average trip consist of walking and wading a good ways and then standing for hours holding your gun, then shooting #2, #3, or #4 at teal, woodies, gads, spoonies, rudys, or Mottled a 12 is a pretty darn hard to beat pic. I shot a good number of ducks this year with #3 hevi-metal and they all feel very, very dead! Plus my 6.8 pound M-1 was a lot nicer than 11 pounds worth of SP-10. Granted sitting in a boat and dropping coastal divers that 10ga is gonna be the cats mee yaww next year with a load of premium BB shot in it.


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## kscoggins (Feb 11, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Go with a SP-10. The recoil isn't as bad as a 12 pump. I want nothing to do with a 10Ga single shot! As far as killing. A 10 is a good choice when you are stepping up shot size. no doubt. personally for shooting geese and divers when you want that bigger shot and knock down power a 10ga with a controlled flight wad will flat get it done! Around here though when the average trip consist of walking and wading a good ways and then standing for hours holding your gun, then shooting #2, #3, or #4 at teal, woodies, gads, spoonies, rudys, or Mottled a 12 is a pretty darn hard to beat pic. I shot a good number of ducks this year with #3 hevi-metal and they all feel very, very dead! Plus my 6.8 pound M-1 was a lot nicer than 11 pounds worth of SP-10. Granted sitting in a boat and dropping coastal divers that 10ga is gonna be the cats mee yaww next year with a load of premium BB shot in it.



Well said, both have their place.


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## fishndinty (Feb 11, 2010)

PaulD said:


> Go with a SP-10. The recoil isn't as bad as a 12 pump. I want nothing to do with a 10Ga single shot! As far as killing. A 10 is a good choice when you are stepping up shot size. no doubt. personally for shooting geese and divers when you want that bigger shot and knock down power a 10ga with a controlled flight wad will flat get it done! Around here though when the average trip consist of walking and wading a good ways and then standing for hours holding your gun, then shooting #2, #3, or #4 at teal, woodies, gads, spoonies, rudys, or Mottled a 12 is a pretty darn hard to beat pic. I shot a good number of ducks this year with #3 hevi-metal and they all feel very, very dead! Plus my 6.8 pound M-1 was a lot nicer than 11 pounds worth of SP-10. Granted sitting in a boat and dropping coastal divers that 10ga is gonna be the cats mee yaww next year with a load of premium BB shot in it.



We do a real fair amount of boat hunting, both from blinds and float hunts.  I think I need to get a 10 gauge 

trying to trade for an older ithaca semi auto.  Anyone ever used one?  I know they are the classic 10.  Are they nice?


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## kscoggins (Feb 12, 2010)

If I am not mistaken, Remington bought the patent on it to produce the SP10.  The Ithika 10's I have saw look identical to a SP-10 or something very close.  I know the Bolt and bolt release button look the same.


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## georgia_home (Feb 12, 2010)

*Old school!*

Well fish, 
all I have to say is this, it kicks!

I remember back in the 80's we all wanted one. As I type someone has one of the original 10's, a marlin goose gun, listed in swap-n-sell. (not my listing) Boy, do I remembering coveting those.

For busting snows and canadas, yeah boy! A bit heavy, but from a nice pit blind...

With the autos, the recoil comes down some. They are still heavier then 12's, and personally I think a little much for ducks.


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 12, 2010)

kscoggins said:


> If I am not mistaken, Remington bought the patent on it to produce the SP10.  The Ithika 10's I have saw look identical to a SP-10 or something very close.  I know the Bolt and bolt release button look the same.



Yes, ithaca fell on hard times in the 80's and sold the pattent for the mag10 to big green. remington then made some improvements to the design and called it the sp10. one of the improvements was screw in chokes. they are still basicly the same gun but not identical. . . .  . which means you need to buy one of each,     i would.


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## Hunt'nDawg (Feb 14, 2010)

I have a SP-10 and love it.  The kick isn't bad, as many have said the weight of the gun helps, plus it knocks ducks and geese like a brick.  I shoot Supreme 3.5 # 2's, $29.99 for 25 shells at BPS.  I would highly recommend at 10ga.


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## kscoggins (Feb 14, 2010)

Some of Roger's is free shipping.  I just order a case of 3" for snows monday night.  It was on my porch when I got home wed.

http://www.mackspw.com/Item--i-SSH1S

http://store.rogerssportinggoods.com/servlet/-strse-145/ammunition-federal-steel-PW107/Detail

http://store.rogerssportinggoods.com/servlet/-strse-1147/PWB-134-Federal-Premium/Detail

http://store.rogerssportinggoods.com/servlet/-strse-183/ssh10-Winchester-Steel-High/Detail


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## 10gaMafia (Feb 17, 2010)

Find a used BPS 10.  Those things work everytime.
I have 2, 1 auto and 1 pump, love 'em.  I am not worried about an extra pound or two in weight compared to a 12 or recoil.
More shot and better pattern than smaller gauge shotguns.  Great for geese.


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