# Boat opinions



## KPatterson (Mar 7, 2009)

Looking to purchase my first decent sized boat. Looking for a 15-20ft center console I can use in the SWF waters and North Ga lakes. Id like atleast a 70hp.I d like a new one with less options vs an older one with more options. I need opinions on 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors. Of course I want something reliable, quiet, and quick. What are the opinions on Yamaha vs Mercury vs Suzuki etc.....


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## ratherbefishin (Mar 7, 2009)

Yamahas are pretty well known as the most reliable in saltwater. However, I like my Etec. Gets great fuel mileage, no smoke, and quieter than the older 2 strokes. Also, it's a lot lighter weight than a 4 stroke. I would go with a bay boat for fresh and salt.


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## Rob Herrington (Mar 7, 2009)

I repowered a 25' proline and dealers said no one can compete with suzuki!!!! 20,000 with verado 17,500 with yamaha and 15,500 with suzuki... plus 6 year warranty and love my suzuki.... fast and quite...  boat making industy is hurting and needing you bus...  you can find any deal you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KPatterson (Mar 7, 2009)

There's an 02 18' Kenner Bay with a 75Merc that really caught my eye down in Ocala. It appears to be super clean boat, I'm a worried that it may be under powered. This one is at a dealership, I'd rather go private owner. Well see how much they are willing to deal.


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## shhfish (Mar 8, 2009)

*Boat*

Check www.craigslist.com/atlanta/boats, lots of boats for sale there.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 9, 2009)

I've got a Tidewater 1900BayMax w/ 115 HP 4-stroke Suzuki and love it!

I saved $1,100 by going with Suzuki rather than Yamaha. After researching them both I felt like it was about an even swap. Both are great motors with great reports from consumers.

Whatever you do, go with a 4-stroke!!! 

The sound level alone makes it a no brainer but the fuel consumption is a huge plus as well.

http://tidewaterboats.net/1900BayMax.html


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 9, 2009)

Tidewater1900 myself also. 115 4stroke Yamaha. 46mpg max
Love the boat for bay and freshwater.


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## PaulD (Mar 9, 2009)

Look and see if you can find a used hewes bayfisher. It would work great for what you are wanting and, in my opinion, is the best hull and deck that they ever put out. If you can find one with a 90 on it that would be plenty for that hull. 
Modern day HPDI 2 strokes get about the same mpg while running and they weigh a lot less which is a huge benifit on smaller, shallower drafting boats. 
I run a 150 TRP injected motor on my 189 Egret and a 45 mph I get 4.5 mpg with a full load. Same boat with a 150 4 stroke gets around 5.1-5.2 at the same speed. Difference is RPM. My top end is around 58-59 while the 4 stroke tops out at a little over 52 with that load and has a lot more weight on the back.


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## Fishead (Mar 9, 2009)

I'd recommend the Tidewater as well.  I use to have a couple of Seapro's (back when Jimmy M owned them) and they were great boats.  Now he owns Tidewater and he's back to making great boats that the regular guys out there can afford.  That said, I currently own a G3 1860 CCT (with a 2 stroke 90hp Yamaha) because of it's extremely shallow draft for the flats/rivers and it don't take much to tow it because it weighs less (being aluminum).


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## DiscoDuck (Mar 9, 2009)

It is absolutely ridiculous to hear you 4 stroke guys brag about your fuel economy with the 4 jokes. There is not a 4 stroke made that gets better fuel economy than an ETEC or a OptiMax in comparable HP. The 4 strokes are also heavier and not nearly as responsive.  When you have run the same boat with different motors in identical enviroments, then brag about you 4 jokes, until then .........



ratherbefishin-- Yamahas are pretty well known as the most reliable in saltwater. However, I like my Etec.  

Yamaha- most reliable,  Hmmmm. I must have missed the memo. You ever heard of a HPDI, Yamaha ? Talk about reliable. You can rely on them to suck down fuel & oil, and leave you stranded waiting on a ETEC or Merc to drag your butt back to the dock.
   Those Kenner hulls are excellent boat hulls, and have been around awhile. Many companies have used the Kenner hulls to copy. A guy down in Baxley has some boats called Rhinos. They are reasonably priced, and should be able to get a deal on one. Good Luck.


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## spotsndots (Mar 10, 2009)

You started the Ford, Chevy, Dodge debate!  So, I guess I'll chime in. 
My first center console was a 19' Blue Wave w/ a 115 2-stroke yami.  Excellent boat/Excellent Motor.  Never a problem from either one.  Fairly shallow drafting boat that rode good up to 1-2' heavy chop.  Any more wave action and you will get wet!This should be expected due to virtually no deadrise.  Boat is lightweight and would jump on  a plane.  Fuel economy was o.k. to poor.  Gas prices weren't an issue at the time.  IMO if you can't afford $50.00 for fuel to go fishing you don't need a boat!  Especially when you can likely get a buddy to split the cost.

My current boat is a 24' SeaPro bay model  with a 225 Merc. OptiMax.  It too is a great boat.  The ride is much better than the Blue Wave but I hate to even compare them due to the length of boat, deadrise, trim tabs, etc.  There are tradeoffs with whatever type of boat your looking for.  This boat doesn't draft as shallow and is heavy as he@@!  I love the Optimax!  No problems whatsoever.  Ignition is like the 4-strokes.  No need to choke the motor.  Very little smoke on start-up, almost as quiet as the 4-Strokes, same or better fuel economy and lighter weight.  Maintenance and running cost are probably similar if averaged out over 500 hrs.  Optimax oil is expensive $23+/gallon.  And mine likes oil!  Spark plugs are $20 each.  These are the only negatives that I have found with the Opti's.  Should you go with the Opti's stay away from the first few year models.  Not sure what the years were, I think 2000-2003, but there were some powerhead issues.  Since then, it's hard to find someone complaining about them.  

As others have mentioned, the Tidewaters are manufactured by the previous owners of SeaPro.  I haven't had the chance to ride one, but I would expect a great boat based on his previous  company.


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## PaulD (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey Duck, I know people usually like what ever motor they are running at the time but you really don't need to run out and bash other brands without knowing the published and open history on motors. The HPDI's that I know of get very good fuel economy and I've run everything from the 250 to the 150. The mpg were almost identical to the 4 strokes, so saying they suck down fuel and oil is not correct, at all. As far as reliability I know of a few HPDI's that have tanked out on people, all with over 800 hrs. That's not too bad. With the exception of known recalls and issues with the 300 and 200 they have been a solid motor. As far as Merc, the pro XS line is probably the top of its class in high performance light weight motor and they have had no major issues with them, I know because I've got 4 friends that are running them. However, do you remember all the issues they have had with the Optimax? Remember a couple of years ago it was fondly called "the opti-bomb"? As far as E-tecs, I know of several, and I mean several people, that have had MAJOR issues that are factory known and openly acknowledged. I know of Powerhead issues on all the H.O. e-tecs. I know of one e-tec that has toasted 2 powerheads and a lower unit with less than 200 hrs on it. The factory said it was because of the design of the oxygen sensor and allowing water in infiltrate it and cause the head to toast. The lower unit had a similar problem with intrusion. Another 200 H.O. has slung a rod and toasted with 215hrs on it. I also know from experience that the larger E-tecs (150 hp +) are not getting the fuel economy that they have published. Matter of fact I know that a 150 E-tec HO that is sitting on a hull identical to mine is not achieving the same economy I am out of my 150 TRP. Yamaha, which is fuel injected. Also he's not getting the top end I am either. I can speak that the smaller sub 90hp E-tecs are doing great however. 
Just be educated to what you buy. There are good points and bad points to every line of motors, just be educated of the facts and not opinions.


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## DiscoDuck (Mar 11, 2009)

Paul it is very simple, Lets take a identical boat and conditions, and put whatever flavor of engines you want on there, the Etecs & Opts/Pro-XS will outperform the 4 jokes, hands down. Also you may want to mention that the ETEC is achieving its efficiency while meeting 3 star carb ratings while the 4 strokes are only working at 2 star ratings. My Fichts will outperform the Etec simply becasue it is a 2 star rated engine. 
   It just amazes me how the market suckers in people with its propaganda about 4 jokes being more fuel efficient. It is simply not true.  Now when anyone wants to start comparing engines in real world conditions call me. I have said my peace.


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## PaulD (Mar 11, 2009)

I DID NOT say anything about a 4 stroke in my previous post. Please go back and re-read what I said. I'm trying to keep you from looking ignorant to the point but you have to help yourself a little.


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## grim (Mar 11, 2009)

4 strokes do get better mileage than traditional 2 strokes, but the newer Direct Injection 2 strokes are indeed lighter, accelerate better and get better fuel economy.

The 4 strokes sure are quiet though.

Here is a comparision from a few years ago, but it holds true still:

http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/aboutOrbital/pressarc/pdf/ob_so.pdf

For my money, I like the mercs or the yamahas.  I have heard a lot good things about the suzuki 4 strokes too.


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## seabear2 (Mar 11, 2009)

PaulD said:


> I DID NOT say anything about a 4 stroke in my previous post. Please go back and re-read what I said. I'm trying to keep you from looking ignorant to the point but you have to help yourself a little.



To late for that!


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 11, 2009)

But the price difference between the ETEC and 4stroke Yamaha will buy quite a bit of fuel. 18 pounds aint enough extra weight to matter.
Etec 115hp 380lbs $8,500.00
Yamaha f115 398lbs $7500.00

$1,000.00  571 gallons of fuel. wow.
18lbs =2.5 gallons of fuel by weight.


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## PaulD (Mar 11, 2009)

Seabear, that becoming obvious, sadly enough.

Yamaha 115 2 stroke is 358lbs and you could probably find one for around $6,500.00. 
Oh and the merc 2 stroke is 355, just saying......


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## ddb (Mar 11, 2009)

KPatterson said:


> Looking to purchase my first decent sized boat. Looking for a 15-20ft center console I can use in the SWF waters and North Ga lakes. Id like atleast a 70hp.I d like a new one with less options vs an older one with more options. I need opinions on 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors. Of course I want something reliable, quiet, and quick. What are the opinions on Yamaha vs Mercury vs Suzuki etc.....



I've got the 19VX Kenner with a 90 Hp 2 stroke Mercury and it does a wide varity of things I like to do, inshore saltwater, some fishing for reds on higher tides, crappy fishing in the winter.  Boat will do 35 mph, which is usually good enough.  My only complaint is it can't get too skinny, but it's a trade off for the smooth ride in rough water.


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## Fishcooker (Mar 11, 2009)

I have 197 Sea Chaser RG with Honda 150 4 stroke. This is a no frills  Bay boat holds 50 gallons of gas. Like all boats it's a trade off and you should pick considering what you want to do. 

Good luck.


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## Meekstro (Mar 12, 2009)

Suzuki is a great motor.  My father is a commercial crabber in Savannah and we have put 6000+ commercial hours on a Suzuki 225 four stroke.  Say what you want but you will never get that kind of longevity out of a two-stroke of any kind.  Of course the odds of a  fisherman approaching those kind of hours on an outboard is not likely.  I promise you nobody depends on a motor more than the people making their living everyday on the water so go see what they are all using.


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## jdgator (Mar 12, 2009)

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke engine? 

Also - are they making outboards fuel-injected?


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 12, 2009)

2 stroke has no valve train and uses the oil mixed with gas for internal lubrication. Less moving parts. 

4 stroke has a valve train and uses engine oil for lubrication. more moving parts.

Yes they make direct injected 2 stroke engines, HPDI,Opimax etc.

Typically the injected motors are of the larger variety but many engine makers are offering smaller injected motors lately.


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## PaulD (Mar 12, 2009)

What he said. 
Pretty much all large outboards that are two stroke are injected now. You can find a few that are carbed but they are a small minority.


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## Capt. Mark (Mar 12, 2009)

I run a 2005 19 sea pro bay with a 115 suzuki 4 stroke. Have had no major problems with the boat or motor in 600 hrs of use. The suzuki is fuel efficent and super quiet . The boat takes semi rough conditions great.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 12, 2009)

Do a background check on the E-TEC's parent company before you purchase one.

The warranty may not be valid soon.

Also, a couple of years ago when I was in the market, I had become enamored with the E-TEC and their 30 minute infomercials. However, after reading countless articles in boating mags, talking to dealers, marina attendants, owners and reading boating forums such as www.thehulltruth.com , I decided that the E-TEC nor the OptiMax was for me. 

I scratched the E-TEC because of serious reliability issues both with the motor and the parent company and the OPtimax primarily due to the low sound level of the Yami & Zuke but also because I don't want to set around searching ads and fliers looking for a special on 2-stroke oil.

I went with Zuke because of the aforementioned $1,100 savings and the fact that it's cylinders are a slightly bigger bore with a shorter stroke than Yami and it has an oil bathed chain rather than a rubber band drive.

I spent over two years studying before I made up my mind & do not regret my decision in the least.

Every time I'm at the ramp and hear a 2 stroke fire off I quietly smile to myself knowing that that motor will not be a part of my peaceful day on the water!


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## DiscoDuck (Mar 12, 2009)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Do a background check on the E-TEC's parent company before you purchase one.
> 
> The warranty may not be valid soon.
> 
> ...



Every time I fire up my 2 stroke Evinrude, I just snicker to myself at how much fuel you are burning compared to mine. I also snicker at the thought of you having to take that 4 stroke to the shop  for an oil change and all the other stuff you have to do to it, or they VOID your warranty. It is ridiculous how people twist a story to suit their own view.  I don't mind putting oil in a tank. People have been doing it for 40 years in boats. Did we all of a sudden wake up as too lazy to pour a bottle of oil into the oil tank?   I can say this much, my 4 different Evinrudes on 3 different boats, have NEVER left me stranded, and I have been out in the Atlantic over 130 miles off the GA coast several times.


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## Bubba moore (Mar 12, 2009)

*Mercury*

MERCURY 2 STROKE #1 ON THE WATER. NO IF,ANDS,OR 
BUTS ABOUT IT PEROID. THIS THREAD CAN OFFICIALLY
CLOSE NOW.


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## DiscoDuck (Mar 12, 2009)

Bubba moore said:


> MERCURY 2 STROKE #1 ON THE WATER. NO IF,ANDS,OR
> BUTS ABOUT IT PEROID. THIS THREAD CAN OFFICIALLY
> CLOSE NOW.



Bubba I almost agree with you. I may be trying me a couple 300 xs's next time around. I still get better fuel mileage than the Opti, but they are both excellent engines that will blow right on by the 4 jokes.  Come on!!


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## grim (Mar 13, 2009)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> Do a background check on the E-TEC's parent company before you purchase one.
> 
> The warranty may not be valid soon.
> 
> ...



I was helping a friend look for a motor to repower his boat with recently, and pretty much came to the same conclusions you did.

We were looking for a DI yami or an optimax (of the right year) and at the suzuki 4 strokes.  The early optimaxes and the motors formerly known as OMC had too many reliability problems, and most 4 strokes were expensive enough to offset any perceived benefits.  The noise issue is huge though.  Another friend of mine has twin 200 verados on his boat, and you can carry on a conversation without yelling while cruising at 35 knots with no problem.  To many people that is worth any extra money in either fuel or purchase cost.  Everyone has different priorities.


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## PaulD (Mar 17, 2009)

DiscoDuck said:


> It is ridiculous how people twist a story to suit their own view.



------YEAP! 
Glad you see your own point.

Grim, I'm running a 150 TRP (fuel injected) yamaha right now. Before that I was running a F115, before that a Carbed 90. 
There was a big difference in the noise of the carbed motor and F115. At low RPM speed my 150 is noticably louder than the F115 and quiter than the 90. At cruising speed though I don't notice much of a difference in the sound from the 150 to the F115. I will say that that is based on a flats boat running pretty high speed, not a bigger boat, where it would be more noticable.


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## Hunting Teacher (Mar 17, 2009)

The best all around reasonably priced bay boat I've seen is a Polar Bay Boat 21 ft. But if you want a brand new one i don't think they make it anymore. My brother and my best friend both have one. Brother has a 2 stroke 150 carbed Merc and friends is a Yamaha 2 Stroke 150 carb motor.
Boat is wide at 8.5 feet, VERY dry and will go in amazingly shallow water for a boat of this size! Tons of room and storage.
Four folks can easily fish from this boat without stepping all over each other. Both run about 45mph with the 150's and both burn about 8 gph at cruising speed.One thing about the old carb motors, you just don't have any problems with them. Especially with the ethanol issues today, there is something to be said for carbed motors. If you're willing to consider a used boat I'd definitely check one out. 
Good luck in whatever you choose. There are 100's of good bay boats out there to pick from. As far as the best new motor goes,two or four stroke, flip a coin. All are generally very reliable but all makes have some problems too.
Teacher


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