# Pastor defends spanking gets two years prison.



## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

Wisconsin Pastor May Have Taken Bible Verse Too Far, Gets 2 Years in Prison For It! 

5/31/12

Pastor Philip Caminiti of the Aleitheia Bible Church in Wisconsin was sentenced to two years for "conspiracy to commit child abuse for advocating the use of wooden rods to spank children". (Source) 

What he preached was Proverbs 13:24, which says: 


Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. 

Quoting the bible ought not be a crime and this has a few online enraged. Alex Jones' Youtube channel put together this video saying it is an infringement on our first amendment rights. Here is a video of the Pastor testifying in court back in March 2012.



Doing a more exhaustive search on Philip Caminiti, we see that members of his church were using his preachings to beat children as young as two months old.

He is even quoted as advocating that. 

"If you spank early and it is done right, then kids will be happy and obedient," Philip Caminiti told investigators, according to the Wisconsin State Journal.

But I didn't see any reports where he advocated excessive force to the point of physical damage -- such as broken bones and/or bruising. And if he there is no such proof of that, then two years seems like excessive punishment.

Our society has taken the side of children but perhaps they have taken it too far. Parents do not discipline their children properly so they grow up to feel like entitled snobs.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

Spanking isn't nearly socially accepted these days, and kids aren't nearly as respectful of their parents and teachers as they use to be.Paddlings are needed in schools and spankings are needed in homes, and parents need to grow up and love their children, not by becoming friends with them, but by being parents to them.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

The problem is that society has turned upside down these days.
A pastor should be very careful when he uses the word "Rod" with our modern day Christian thinkers.

Everything's a mess.
Everything's a mess.

I've personally never punished a child with a "rod".


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## centerpin fan (Jun 1, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> ... parents need to grow up and love their children, not by becoming friends with them, but by being parents to them.



It is FAR easier to be a friend than to be a parent.  I think that is the reason you hear so much about people being "friends" with their kids these days (particularly among the Hollywood crowd.)


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The problem is that society has turned upside down these days.
> A pastor should be very careful when he uses the word "Rod" with our modern day Christian thinkers.
> 
> Everything's a mess.
> ...




The government allows one Pastor to protest American heroes funerals, but arrests another for preaching the word
Yes everything's a mess!


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> The government allows one Pastor to protest American heroes funerals, but arrests another for preaching the word
> Yes everything's a mess!



You just proved my point.
If someone has abused their children, the parent should be arrested.
But what does the government do?  They want to close down Winchester because someone used one of their guns to commit a crime.

Do it make sense?

Everything's a mess.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

And this, from a news release.

guilty of having instructed members of his flock to punish children as young as infants and toddlers by striking them on the bare buttocks with wood dowels in order to teach them to behave correctly, fitting the church's literal interpretation of the Bible.


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## blood on the ground (Jun 1, 2012)

My children understand the words "walk the chalk line"


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm curious as to how this got into the legal system in the first place?

And if I began advocating the use of wooden dowels by parents in the church I'm pretty sure the church folks would give me time to find another place to teach!  They wouldn't need toe government.

But I don't think this should be a court issue.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 1, 2012)

When I was a boy corporal punishment was in vogue. It was practiced at home and in school and by local bullies.

The problem with parents and teachers using it ( the problem with bullies being obvious) it that they used it in hot blood. ( Bullies used it in cold blood.) 

At the end of the day when nerves were frayed or when a teacher's or parent'ss stress needed venting, not to mention  regular PMS in my mom and my teachers ( nuns) sometimes my brains got rattled for the oddest triggers. Parents encouraged teachers to use the rod, strap, both sides of the hand etc...

Sometimes, many times, the blood that met walls and  the slaps behind the ears and in the face was simply adults, parents and teachers, all good christians--- grown-ups, having a bad day. After all the body was just a mule getting in the way of the soul...dah!

Today I see perhaps less physical corrections, --but I see young parents bullying their kids.

My kids were physically and "emotionally"  corrected. I must admit-- when these happened I had lost it and in hindsight it was way out of proportion. The parenting years were very stressful for me.


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## TacoVader (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm sorry, but there comes a time for negative reinforcement.  There are more times when positive reinforcement is required.  I was spanked on rare occassions.  And I've probably had to spank my children once, and I consider my children well-adjusted, good boys.

But spanking a 2 month old?  Seriously?  A two-month old has not the cognitive ability to differentiate between right and wrong.  C'mon, the preacher is an idiot for advocating this.  It wasn't so long ago that children were treated like miniature adults when it was not understood that their minds are still developing.  This preacher is living in the 1600's.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

TacoVader said:


> I'm sorry, but there comes a time for negative reinforcement.  There are more times when positive reinforcement is required.  I was spanked on rare occassions.  And I've probably had to spank my children once, and I consider my children well-adjusted, good boys.
> 
> But spanking a 2 month old?  Seriously?  A two-month old has not the cognitive ability to differentiate between right and wrong.  C'mon, the preacher is an idiot for advocating this.  It wasn't so long ago that children were treated like miniature adults when it was not understood that their minds are still developing.  This preacher is living in the 1600's.




My understanding is that he did not physically spank any two month old, advocating it is stupid, but should it be illegal with a sentence of two years in prison?


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## gemcgrew (Jun 1, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> When I was a boy corporal punishment was in vogue.



For me as well. The sound of Dad's leather belt being pulled through belt loops was very intimidating. I think the pendulum swings from one generation to the next sometimes. I was not one to apply that type of correction to my children but they may very well with theirs.


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## TacoVader (Jun 1, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> My understanding is that he did not physically spank any two month old, advocating it is stupid, but should it be illegal with a sentence of two years in prison?



No.  He should be taken behind the woodshed and branded with a hickory stick.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

If I saw a parent take out a wooden dowel to whip a young person there'd be a confrontation between myself and the parent, and I'd likely be sitting before a jury.

But NO, the man doesn't deserve two years in jail.  And he probably won't serve even a fraction of that two years.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> If I saw a parent take out a wooden dowel to whip a young person there'd be a confrontation between myself and the parent, and I'd likely be sitting before a jury.
> 
> But NO, the man doesn't deserve two years in jail.  And he probably won't serve even a fraction of that two years.



Teachers used wooden paddles in my school years, for some students that was the only discipline they got.I love my kids, but if they are misbehaving I want the teachers to spank them, and let me know about it and they can get another one at home.
 I don't advocate whipping all the time and I agree a child must be old enough to know they did wrong.I agree with the scripture though and I think it is clear that it's saying, {To spare the rod} = Not spanking when spanking is due
{Is to hate the Son}= You don't have the love required to correct your son and you fail Gods requirements of you as a father.
Sensitive subject? Yes. Funny thing is to me if this were a debate 50 years ago I believe you would be hard pressed to find someone that was against spanking.
 I always thought the only lie my dad ever told me was, "Son this hurts me more than it does you". As a father myself now I know he was telling the truth, but I have seen nothing but positive reactions to the few spankings I've had to give my kids.


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## pstrahin (Jun 1, 2012)

He should get time.  I have 4 kids and have had to whip some tail when it was called for.  But not with a stinking ROD!


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Teachers used wooden paddles in my school years, for some students that was the only discipline they got.I love my kids, but if they are misbehaving I want the teachers to spank them, and let me know about it and they can get another one at home.
> I don't advocate whipping all the time and I agree a child must be old enough to know they did wrong.I agree with the scripture though and I think it is clear that it's saying, {To spare the rod} = Not spanking when spanking is due
> {Is to hate the Son}= You don't have the love required to correct your son and you fail Gods requirements of you as a father.
> Sensitive subject? Yes. Funny thing is to me if this were a debate 50 years ago I believe you would be hard pressed to find someone that was against spanking.
> I always thought the only lie my dad ever told me was, "Son this hurts me more than it does you". As a father myself now I know he was telling the truth, but I have seen nothing but positive reactions to the few spankings I've had to give my kids.



Fifty years ago any parent who whipped their child with a wooded dowel deserved to have me or my Dad teach them a life-lesson.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Fifty years ago any parent who whipped their child with a wooded dowel deserved to have me or my Dad teach them a life-lesson.



I wish you or your dad would have been around when my great aunt caught me up in her plum tree and took hold of me with a switch.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 1, 2012)

I've had a switch on my legs a few times myself.

I think my mom use to get me with her switch at least once a day just in case I had done something wrong that she hadn't seen.

Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch!


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## WaltL1 (Jun 1, 2012)

The pastor has influence over his people which carries a great amount of responsibility. If he's going to advocate striking your children with rods, spoons or something with a flat side to cause pain (its in the video, are spoons and flat sided objects in the Bible?) maybe he's going a bit too far? If you did something that angered me and I hit you with something flat sided (a 2x4?) I would be in jail for assault with a deadly weapon.
I do agree he didnt actually beat their kids himself. But he did give a class on how to use the rod and by default thats influencing parents to do it.. Charlie Manson didnt kill anybody but he's in jail for life because he influenced others to do it. The pastor could preach the Bible about this particular subject without going over the line and actually giving a class on how to beat your child correctly. 2 years sounds about right to me. And I'll never understand those who would give a teacher or anybody else permission to beat your child.


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## ambush80 (Jun 1, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> The pastor has influence over his people which carries a great amount of responsibility. If he's going to advocate striking your children with rods, spoons or something with a flat side to cause pain (its in the video, are spoons and flat sided objects in the Bible?) maybe he's going a bit too far? If you did something that angered me and I hit you with something flat sided (a 2x4?) I would be in jail for assault with a deadly weapon.
> I do agree he didnt actually beat their kids himself. But he did give a class on how to use the rod and by default thats influencing parents to do it.. Charlie Manson didnt kill anybody but he's in jail for life because he influenced others to do it. The pastor could preach the Bible about this particular subject without going over the line and actually giving a class on how to beat your child correctly. 2 years sounds about right to me. And I'll never understand those who would give a teacher or anybody else permission to beat your child.



That's some powerful stuff right there........

Hit my little girl.  See what you get.


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## Throwback (Jun 1, 2012)

> we see that members of his church were using his preachings to beat children as young as two months old.



anyone that thinks or advocates beating a 2 month old will accomplish anything much less "teaching them a lesson" NEEDS to be in prison. 

T


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## WaltL1 (Jun 1, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> That's some powerful stuff right there........
> 
> Hit my little girl.  See what you get.


Its mind boggling isn't it? My kid misbehaved? Dont call me so as his parent I can deal with it, dont give him detention,
dont send him to the principal, dont suspend him, dont give him extra homework. You just go ahead and beat on him that'll learn him right quick. 
Yeah the world is a mess alright although if this pastor does some time that will be one less mess for a while. Hopefully the other prisoners wont spare the rod on him.


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## ambush80 (Jun 1, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> Its mind boggling isn't it? My kid misbehaved? Dont call me so as his parent I can deal with it, dont give him detention,
> dont send him to the principal, dont suspend him, dont give him extra homework. You just go ahead and beat on him that'll learn him right quick.
> Yeah the world is a mess alright although if this pastor does some time that will be one less mess for a while. Hopefully the other prisoners wont spare the rod on him.



Interesting article:

http://voices.yahoo.com/best-argument-ever-against-corporal-punishment-in-691925.html


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## hobbs27 (Jun 1, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> Its mind boggling isn't it? My kid misbehaved? Dont call me so as his parent I can deal with it, dont give him detention,
> dont send him to the principal, dont suspend him, dont give him extra homework. You just go ahead and beat on him that'll learn him right quick.
> Yeah the world is a mess alright although if this pastor does some time that will be one less mess for a while. Hopefully the other prisoners wont spare the rod on him.



If you cant trust the people you leave in charge of your children to discipline them, then don't leave your kids with them!


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## WaltL1 (Jun 2, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> If you cant trust the people you leave in charge of your children to discipline them, then don't leave your kids with them!


If you do trust other people to discipline your child then apparently you are a little behind on the news.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 2, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> If you do trust other people to discipline your child then apparently you are a little behind on the news.



What news makes it ok to leave the most precious gift God could give you, in the hands of someone you can't trust to discipline a child that needs it?
I'm talking about a real brat here that may be kicking adults or biting other kids.This "go sit in timeout" is garbage, all we're doing is training kids to adapt to jail.

About the news lately, you think kids are behaving better these days? You think they show more respect?


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## XIronheadX (Jun 2, 2012)

I can still hear the echo of that paddle in the hallway of the school in 1970. I stayed out of trouble. Society has changed in a way I couldn't imagine a principle paddling my child as he came through school though. What is morally right? My parents talked of cutting there own hickory switch for there whippings. My son actually thanked me for his spankings later in life. Although there were very few. Kids are in a lot more trouble these days. I stayed clear of it in fear of the belt.


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## thedeacon (Jun 2, 2012)

The man made a mistake in his teachings and his counseling to his congregation. Maybe two years is the wrong punishment for that kind of mistake.

I suggest the ROD use it as he has suggested, hard enough that he will get the point and at least one whipping for each infraction. I volunteer to be the one to carry out the sentance.

I had my butt tore up many times but it was never done with a thin rod like suggested. Sometimes "Christians" can be the most brutal people in the world.

Just my opinion.


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## Israel (Jun 3, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> The man made a mistake in his teachings and his counseling to his congregation. Maybe two years is the wrong punishment for that kind of mistake.
> 
> I suggest the ROD use it as he has suggested, hard enough that he will get the point and at least one whipping for each infraction. I volunteer to be the one to carry out the sentance.
> 
> ...



I see a thing in myself, that when considers itself right, it would spare not the whole of the world in seeking its vindication.

I see another, who, although well acquainted with all the world's errors, and not unaware of the darkness of men's hearts, instead chooses death for himself, and in that, life for others.

I see my own brutality, thinly masked as "service to God", as a morally bankrupt mime, with a greasy white face of paint plastered upon a man of straw pretending to be real.
But, then, I see Jesus.


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## WaltL1 (Jun 3, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> What news makes it ok to leave the most precious gift God could give you, in the hands of someone you can't trust to discipline a child that needs it?
> I'm talking about a real brat here that may be kicking adults or biting other kids.This "go sit in timeout" is garbage, all we're doing is training kids to adapt to jail.
> 
> About the news lately, you think kids are behaving better these days? You think they show more respect?


You are completely missing the point so we will just leave it at that.


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## leroy (Jun 3, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> Its mind boggling isn't it? My kid misbehaved? Dont call me so as his parent I can deal with it, dont give him detention,
> dont send him to the principal, dont suspend him, dont give him extra homework. You just go ahead and beat on him that'll learn him right quick.
> Yeah the world is a mess alright although if this pastor does some time that will be one less mess for a while. Hopefully the other prisoners wont spare the rod on him.



worked when i was in school!! seen a many have their rear ends lifted off the ground by a paddle has a way of making a lasting impression!


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## MudDucker (Jun 4, 2012)

Buncha idjits in this thread.

Advocating beating a 2 month old is stupid and wrong.

Whipping a child of age to know right from wrong is a moral command to parents to parent their child.  There is no difference between using a paddle, a belt or a wooden dowel, so long as they are applied in love for the purpose of correction and not as a sadistic means of control.

Those who advocate otherwise are a big reason that kids aren't getting educated in school.  They aren't getting educated, because they were not disciplined before they got to the school house.

My father promised and delivered that if I got a spanking at school, I had one twice as bad waiting for me at home!


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## gemcgrew (Jun 4, 2012)

MudDucker said:


> Buncha idjits in this thread.
> 
> Advocating beating a 2 month old is stupid and wrong.



I don't think anybody in this thread is advocating such a thing.


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## huntmore (Jun 4, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Fifty years ago any parent who whipped their child with a wooded dowel deserved to have me or my Dad teach them a life-lesson.



If you had been around my house, you and your dad would have gotten a life- lesson when my dad got finished giving me mine.


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## SlappyTomato (Jun 4, 2012)

huntmore said:


> If you had been around my house, you and your dad would have gotten a life- lesson when my dad got finished giving me mine.


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## JB0704 (Jun 4, 2012)

I guess it all depends on how it is handled.  I know, as far as my kids are concerned, nobody else is ever going to spank them.  As far as what is used and to what level, when I was a kid, the worse the whipping I got the more motivated I was to continue whatever it was that was being corrected.  Believe me, I was a stubborn one, and the whippings were often, severe, and void of any notion of "loving correction."  I never really learned any lesson but hate.

I cannot imagine anybody being so stupid that they would think beating a 2 month old would have any corrective benefit.  The kid doesn't even know whaty he is, let alone why he does what he does.


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## WaltL1 (Jun 4, 2012)

leroy said:


> worked when i was in school!! seen a many have their rear ends lifted off the ground by a paddle has a way of making a lasting impression!


For some kids the lasting impression is going to be "to get people to do what you want you inflict pain on them".
The jails are overflowing with people who think like that.


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## gemcgrew (Jun 4, 2012)

WaltL1 said:


> For some kids the lasting impression is going to be "to get people to do what you want you inflict pain on them".
> The jails are overflowing with people who think like that.



Over 70% of the prison population were raised in single parent homes. I would suggest that jails are overflowing more for that reason than spanking.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 4, 2012)

huntmore said:


> If you had been around my house, you and your dad would have gotten a life- lesson when my dad got finished giving me mine.



Did you're Dad use a wooden dowel on you????
And do use one on your kids??


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## thedeacon (Jun 4, 2012)

huntmore said:


> If you had been around my house, you and your dad would have gotten a life- lesson when my dad got finished giving me mine.



Son, let me tell you this, YOU don't know my dad very well, that is almost funny. Right Brother.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh no! It can't get worse than this, "My dad can whip your dad!"


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## Israel (Jun 4, 2012)

When it comes to our parents and "home"...and specifically...to "us" as a product of that home...we are not unlike a man with Tourettes Syndrome who goes about saying "it worked for me...and look, #@%*&%$...I turned out fine!"
Obviously...our blind spots may be a bit larger than we imagine.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 4, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> Son, let me tell you this, YOU don't know my dad very well, that is almost funny. Right Brother.




Well, he was a real special kinda guy.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 4, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Oh no! It can't get worse than this, "My dad can whip your dad!"



Nah, Daddy died, and me and brother gave up fist fightin and foot raceing a couple of decades ago.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 4, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Nah, Daddy died, and me and brother gave up fist fightin and foot raceing a couple of decades ago.



Don't tell us ya'll gave up arm wrestlin' too!


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## leroy (Jun 4, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Over 70% of the prison population were raised in single parent homes. I would suggest that jails are overflowing more for that reason than spanking.


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## leroy (Jun 4, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I guess it all depends on how it is handled.  I know, as far as my kids are concerned, nobody else is ever going to spank them.  As far as what is used and to what level, when I was a kid, the worse the whipping I got the more motivated I was to continue whatever it was that was being corrected.  Believe me, I was a stubborn one, and the whippings were often, severe, and void of any notion of "loving correction."  I never really learned any lesson but hate.
> 
> I cannot imagine anybody being so stupid that they would think beating a 2 month old would have any corrective benefit.  The kid doesn't even know whaty he is, let alone why he does what he does.




Not me, the thought that usually ran through my head after a good whupping was man I aint doing that again!!


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## thedeacon (Jun 4, 2012)

My dad was a good man but a hard man but I can remember only one time he hit me, man did he do a good job. Even though he didn't hit me he always managed to make his point and I and my brother and my sisters never failed to get the point.

However my mother would use a switch like it was a glass of cold tea. I feared (respected) my dad as much as I did my mother. Every child is differant, they need and require whatever works best for them. 

However I do not think that Christ is happy with a grown, strong man to use a stick, rod, rock, board or belt to beat anyone expecially his own child to bleed or to bring about bruises for discipline. That is against everything that Christ taught or even hinted.

I didn't mess with my dad and no one else did, it never happened but he did not beat me into submission and I thank him for that and shame on any man that will bruise his child or leave large whelps on him.

That is just my opinion, but if you do please do it in front of me. God gave a child a soft rear end to be spanked on and I believe that is ok but God does not want us to mistreat anyone much less our own children.

Yes the old testiment does say use the rod or spoil the child but does he mean to whip an 18 month old baby. No, No, No he doesn't in my opinion. We need decipline, much more of it but we have to use common sense.

My mother used to make my brother and I fight when we argued, I resented it then and in a sense I still do even though I couldn't have ask for a better mother.

I might add, I have not done nearly the Job raising my kids that my parents did.

I meant no sarcasm in any of my comments.

God bless.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 4, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Don't tell us ya'll gave up arm wrestlin' too!



Hey, I don't even talk back to my wife anymore.


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## MudDucker (Jun 5, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I don't think anybody in this thread is advocating such a thing.



I didn't say they were, but that preacher was.

People on here are advocating that discipline with whipping is wrong and they are wrong big time!  I don't think I whipped my son more than 3 or 4 times, but he deserved each one and I made sure he understood the reason why and what I expected from him for it not to happen again.


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## JB0704 (Jun 5, 2012)

leroy said:


> Not me, the thought that usually ran through my head after a good whupping was man I aint doing that again!!



I guess it's all in how it's approached.  My folks' discipline wasn't loving, and often it didn't make a whole lot of sense.


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## gemcgrew (Jun 5, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I guess it's all in how it's approached.  My folks' discipline wasn't loving, and often it didn't make a whole lot of sense.



I have 4 brothers. My oldest brother was very strong willed and defiant. While being whipped with the belt, he would say to my dad "I hate you, and when you are finished, I will still hate you."

I was the well adjusted middle child  and my parents needed only to scold me. I did get the belt a few times and it was always deserved.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 5, 2012)

As someone earlier alluded to, what a person might consider to be "normal" might not actually be suitable.
How our parents handled us probably has a great influence on how we will handle our children.  We might even vow to 'never raise our children the way our parents did'.

Do you really spank(whip) your kids out of love, or is it anger?
Do you do it for their good, or because they "deserve" the pain?

Biblically, the Gospel of our Lord said that fathers should not 'provoke their children to wrath', how ever we each take that to apply to us personally.

For me, what's appropriate today might not be appropriate tomorrow.  But I think parents should show great restraint when physically punishing (correcting through pain) their children.

Each person has to decide; then, as senior citizens, have to live with that decision.


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## gemcgrew (Jun 5, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> Yes the old testiment does say use the rod or spoil the child but does he mean to whip an 18 month old baby. No, No, No he doesn't in my opinion. We need decipline, much more of it but we have to use common sense.



"Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not in the Bible even though it is often attributed to be. 

Here are verses that directly address it:

"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." (Prov 13:24)

"Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying." (Prov 19:18)

"Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." (Prov 22:15)

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die." (Prov 23:13)

"Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from he11." (Prov 23:14)

"The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame." (Prov 29:15)

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" (Heb 12:6,7)


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## thedeacon (Jun 5, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not in the Bible even though it is often attributed to be.
> 
> Here are verses that directly address it:
> 
> ...



Well I think it is inferred enough to get the point.


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## grouper throat (Jun 5, 2012)

The pastor is wrong. 

In contrast, my dad whipped me and my brother with a belt and let me tell you we needed it 99% of the times we got it. We also grew up respectful and disciplined as we aged, unlike alot of these little brats I see today. I have only popped my daughter's butt once because she was a much quicker learner than me and her uncle lol


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## gemcgrew (Jun 6, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Do you really spank(whip) your kids out of love, or is it anger?


Love intervenes and corrects bad behavior. 



Ronnie T said:


> Do you do it for their good, or because they "deserve" the pain?


That can be one and the same. No different than how God corrects the rebellion of his children. That can be very painful.

For me, the idea of spanking a 2 month old is ridiculous. For others, spanking a 2,3,4,5 year old is just as ridiculous. At what age do free willers start interfering in the free will of their children?


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## Mako22 (Jun 6, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I have 4 brothers. My oldest brother was very strong willed and defiant. While being whipped with the belt, he would say to my dad "I hate you, and when you are finished, I will still hate you."
> 
> I was the well adjusted middle child  and my parents needed only to scold me. I did get the belt a few times and it was always deserved.



Your dad didn't swing it hard enough is all I got to say about your brother talking back. My parents believed in you dropping your drawers and getting some of that naked rear end with a big yellow 1970's disco belt. I was too busy screaming to talk back any.


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## Mako22 (Jun 6, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> I wish you or your dad would have been around when my great aunt caught me up in her plum tree and took hold of me with a switch.



Been there one time when I back talked Granny and she made me go cut a switch. I never back talked her again, ever! To this day I love that old woman more than any person on this earth. I sure do miss her.


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## JB0704 (Jun 6, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> At what age do free willers start interfering in the free will of their children?



When their free will becomes detrimental to their development as responsible citizens.


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## JB0704 (Jun 6, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Your dad didn't swing it hard enough is all I got to say about your brother talking back. My parents believed in you dropping your drawers and getting some of that naked rear end with a big yellow 1970's disco belt. I was too busy screaming to talk back any.



My dad was similar.  Like I said, he had a very severe way of handling his daily dissapointment with his children.  The more painful it was, the more it came from anger, the less I considered the value.  

There is something later on in the NT about not provoking your children to wrath.  I would say a few folks tend to cross this line in their zeal to keep it Biblical.


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## huntmore (Jun 18, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Did you're Dad use a wooden dowel on you????
> And do use one on your kids??



Two days before my dad left for veitnam I walked out on the back porch. He was whittling on a piece of wood about 18 inches long and two inches wide. I asked him what it was for and he told me, son you are going to be the man of the house for a while, i said ok, I can do it but what is the board for and he said " it is for mom to keep the man of the house straight'. I still have that board to this day. I believe the reason I have never been in much trouble was the application of that piece of wood. 
 My kids are grown and I have very little trouble out of them because I used a wooden paddle, belt, hand, spoon etc.


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## huntmore (Jun 18, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> My dad was a good man but a hard man but I can remember only one time he hit me, man did he do a good job. Even though he didn't hit me he always managed to make his point and I and my brother and my sisters never failed to get the point.
> 
> However my mother would use a switch like it was a glass of cold tea. I feared (respected) my dad as much as I did my mother. Every child is differant, they need and require whatever works best for them.
> 
> ...



You think the same God who killed everyone on the planet except for a few would cringe if you put a welt on your sons behind if he slapped his mother. 
If my brothers and i fought my mom would go through us like a dose of salts.
"meant no sarcasm"


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## thedeacon (Jun 18, 2012)

huntmore said:


> You think the same God who killed everyone on the planet except for a few would cringe if you put a welt on your sons behind if he slapped his mother.
> If my brothers and i fought my mom would go through us like a dose of salts.
> "meant no sarcasm"




Personally I never even gave any thought to slapping my mom. I was taught more respect than that. I have also taught my children to have more respect than that.


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## huntmore (Jun 19, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> Personally I never even gave any thought to slapping my mom. I was taught more respect than that. I have also taught my children to have more respect than that.[/QUOT
> 
> 
> I never said you give any thought to slapping your mother. If you played dodgeball like you dodged the my post you would be the best dodgeball player in the world.
> ...


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## Big Eights (Jun 19, 2012)

For years now all kids are told "JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS" then the first time kids get out of hand and just need a good spanking its give them a dose to calm them down.  For me I have never had to whip my child with anything. I started out when she was young being a parent. She learned without beatings. Spankings will not kill a child beatings will people just need to learn the difference. I threw a rock at my older brother and hit him in the head when we were young.My father saw this and picked up the first thing he could get his hands on. Well it was a hubcap from a chevy car. Let me tell a wooden dial is nothing to a hubcap.


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## thedeacon (Jun 19, 2012)

I have never said on here that I was against spanking, I did say that there was no reason to BEAT a CHILD.  That means

No blood
No bruising
No large whelps

I spanked my kids, didn't have to do it very much. My wife woud clean their plow but she never beat them. Neither did she slap them in the face. I also think it useless to scream and curse you child.

Their has to be a moderate amount of wisdom when you apply discipline.

This is all JUST my opinion and I would not even pretend that I had all the answers. I just think that my time was better spent reasoning with my children rather than beating the stuffing out of them.

But to all his own after all they are your kids.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 19, 2012)

huntmore said:


> You think the same God who killed everyone on the planet except for a few would cringe if you put a welt on your sons behind if he slapped his mother. If my brothers and i fought my mom would go through us like a dose of salts.
> "meant no sarcasm"




Yes I do?


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## Ronnie T (Jun 19, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Yes I do?



Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. 

That verse says nothing about taking a piece of wood, pipe, stick, or dowel to a child.

Just because mine or your parents used a belt or wooden paddle on us, doesn't mean God is please with our doing it.

The world is full of very dedicated, Christian, successful people who's parents didn't use a paddle or club on them.

You can do it, but don't blame God when you do!


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## Big Eights (Jun 19, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
> 
> That verse says nothing about taking a piece of wood, pipe, stick, or dowel to a child.
> 
> ...


I dont think it displeases god if its for the wright reason. He let man kill his olny son because he loves us so much.


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