# There's an atheist forum?



## RThomas (Oct 13, 2010)

So, I haven't visited the forums for about two years now.  I was browsing the internets on my lunch break and thought I'd check out my old haunt.  And there's now an atheist forum. Wow.
So, I'm thinking Woody's is really branching out, or they just needed a place to stick all the troublemakers.
I'll probably regret posting this as I'll get sucked back into this time-sink, but oh well.  
How's the hunting?


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## pnome (Oct 13, 2010)

RThomas said:


> they just needed a place to stick all the troublemakers.



ding!


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## dawg2 (Oct 13, 2010)

pnome said:


> ding!



Like Joan of Ark

Not really for troublemakers.  More of a way for people of different beliefs to share common grounds with like minded members


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## CraigM (Oct 13, 2010)

pnome said:


> ding!



So just because they are an Athiest they are trouble makers?  I tell ya what to be a Religion based on acceptance and forgiveness most Christians seem to be the snobbiest most intolerant people I've ever met.  Only second to Liberals

ETA.  For what it's worth I'm not an Athiest


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## pnome (Oct 13, 2010)

CraigM said:


> So just because they are an Athiest they are trouble makers?  I tell ya what to be a Religion based on acceptance and forgiveness most Christians seem to be the snobbiest most intolerant people I've ever met.  Only second to Liberals
> 
> ETA.  For what it's worth I'm not an Athiest



For what it's worth, I am.


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## CraigM (Oct 13, 2010)

pnome said:


> For what it's worth, I am.



well then I guess reading comprehension owns me


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## RThomas (Oct 13, 2010)

Craig, I'm not saying atheists are troublemakers.  I was just referring to how some others probably perceived us.  Questioning makes people uncomfortable.


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## Thanatos (Oct 13, 2010)

RThomas said:


> Craig, I'm not saying atheists are troublemakers.  I was just referring to how some others probably perceived us.  Questioning makes people uncomfortable.



Only if your uncomfortable with the answer.


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## CraigM (Oct 13, 2010)

RThomas said:


> Craig, I'm not saying atheists are troublemakers.  I was just referring to how some others probably perceived us.  Questioning makes people uncomfortable.



ok.  I was just saying that no ones religion or beliefs offend me, but the way some people try to push their own beliefs down someone else's throat does.  Like I said i had a lapse of comprehension.  Sorry guys


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## stringmusic (Oct 13, 2010)

CraigM said:


> So just because they are an Athiest they are trouble makers?  I tell ya what to be a Religion based on acceptance and forgiveness *most Christians seem to be the snobbiest most intolerant people I've ever met.*  Only second to Liberals
> 
> ETA.  For what it's worth I'm not an Athiest



how did you know he was a Christian?


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## campinnurse (Oct 14, 2010)

I get the atheist and agnostic part but who are the apologetics?


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## ambush80 (Oct 14, 2010)

The "Apologetics" are apparently anyone who wants to interject scripture into a Humanist discussion.


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## RThomas (Oct 14, 2010)

campinnurse said:


> I get the atheist and agnostic part but who are the apologetics?



Yeah, I thought the "Apologetics" part was pretty strange.  The only thing in common with Atheist/Agnostic is that they all start with "A".  Maybe the mods are trying to say this is the new religious debate forum.

The wikipedia version:
"Apologetics is the discipline of defending a position (usually religious) through the systematic use of reason.

Early Christian writers (c 120-220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists.[1]

In modern times, apologists refers to authors, writers, editors or academic journals, and leaders known for defending the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that receive great popular scrutinies or are minority views."


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## emusmacker (Oct 14, 2010)

Next thing we know there will probably be a forum for homosexuals?  I'm sure there are some of them that hunt and enjoy the outdoors.


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## ambush80 (Oct 14, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Next thing we know there will probably be a forum for homosexuals?  I'm sure there are some of them that hunt and enjoy the outdoors.



There are indeed.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 14, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Next thing we know there will probably be a forum for homosexuals?  I'm sure there are some of them that hunt and enjoy the outdoors.



You're the first to bring it up that I'm aware of.


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## campinnurse (Oct 15, 2010)

RThomas said:


> Yeah, I thought the "Apologetics" part was pretty strange.  The only thing in common with Atheist/Agnostic is that they all start with "A".  Maybe the mods are trying to say this is the new religious debate forum.
> 
> The wikipedia version:
> "Apologetics is the discipline of defending a position (usually religious) through the systematic use of reason.
> ...


Thanks for the info- interesting. I enjoy reading educated debate on these posts. Keep it coming!


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## emusmacker (Oct 18, 2010)

Six million dollar ham, you guilty?  The hit dog always hollers.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 18, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Six million dollar ham, you guilty?  The hit dog always hollers.



Of what?  Pointing out that you're the first person to mention a separate forum for gay people?  Why would you bring it up anyway?


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## ambush80 (Oct 19, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Six million dollar ham, you guilty?  The hit dog always hollers.





Six million dollar ham said:


> Of what?  Pointing out that you're the first person to mention a separate forum for gay people?  Why would you bring it up anyway?



Now, now, girls.......


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## emusmacker (Oct 19, 2010)

Just making a point that I think it's kinda of dumb to even have an atheist forum on a hunting forum to start with. That why I said before long you'll have a gay forum for all those pink clad animal loving tree worshipping, and cannibalalistic folks that call themselves hunters. 

Ambush80, trust me dude, or dudette, which ever you are, the last I checked, I'm a long ways from being a girl.


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## emusmacker (Oct 19, 2010)

BTW, dang Ambush80, you need to lenghten your skirt in that avatar pic, it just doesn't look good on you.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Just making a point that I think it's kinda of dumb to even have an atheist forum on a hunting forum to start with. That why I said before long you'll have a gay forum for all those pink clad animal loving tree worshipping, and cannibalalistic folks that call themselves hunters.
> 
> Ambush80, trust me dude, or dudette, which ever you are, the last I checked, I'm a long ways from being a girl.



Would you agree that it's also "kinda dumb" to even have a Christian forum on a hunting forum?


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## emusmacker (Oct 20, 2010)

Not really because God gave us the great outdoors and animals to enjoy, so my answer is NO.


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## davidstaples (Oct 20, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Not really because God gave us the great outdoors and animals to enjoy, so my answer is NO.



See, that's where we'd disagree... you think some mystical being created the outdoors and some of us need a place to gather and laugh at you.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 20, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> See, that's where we'd disagree... you think some mystical being created the outdoors and some of us need a place to gather and laugh at you.


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## packrat (Oct 20, 2010)

*nah*



davidstaples said:


> See, that's where we'd disagree... you think some mystical being created the outdoors and some of us need a place to gather and laugh at you.



We don't think a mythical creature created anything,
We know a Living God created everything.
Didn't you get the memo?​


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## Achilles Return (Oct 21, 2010)

packrat said:


> We don't think a mythical creature created anything,
> We know a Living God created everything.
> Didn't you get the memo?​



Except you don't - not really. That is, unless you vastly change the meaning of the word "know" to "something we really hope for and take on faith". 

To claim that you do _know_ is simply arrogance, which is highly ironic given that's what most christians would claim I have.


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## packrat (Oct 21, 2010)

*Hmmmm....*



Achilles Return said:


> Except you don't - not really. That is, unless you vastly change the meaning of the word "know" to "something we really hope for and take on faith".
> 
> To claim that you do _know_ is simply arrogance, which is highly ironic given that's what most christians would claim I have.



Nope, this "know" is a true "know". The kind you feel and not think. Kinda like hot or cold air, you can feel it heat or cool your body; but you can't see it. BUT you "know" it's there.
If anyone one assumes "arrogance", then so be it. I pray that everyone will "know" and feel the experience.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 21, 2010)

Except knowledge has nothing to do with what you "feel" and everything to do with observational objective reality. Try again.


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## emusmacker (Oct 21, 2010)

Achilles, dude what are you trying to say???  Really?? 

You may laugh at me now, but you  won't be laughing when your end comes dude.


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## emusmacker (Oct 21, 2010)

Hey Achilles, what if a blind person feels heat or cold, how is that observational reality?  Oh yeah and they are alone with no one to tell them that is hot or cold.  HMMMM


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> You may laugh at me now, but you  won't be laughing when your end comes dude.



Technically, neither will you.  I've never seen a dead person laugh... have you?


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Hey Achilles, what if a blind person feels heat or cold, how is that observational reality?  Oh yeah and they are alone with no one to tell them that is hot or cold.  HMMMM



Feeling heat or cold is observational reality because you use one of your 5 senses to observe it.  How do you observe a mystical being's presence?  Do you physically touch it?  Do you smell it?  I guess a blind person can't see it.  Do you hear it?  No.  But you can physically feel that it is cold or hot.  Any other questions?


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Hey Achilles, what if a blind person feels heat or cold, how is that observational reality?  Oh yeah and they are alone with no one to tell them that is hot or cold.  HMMMM



great point


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> Feeling heat or cold is observational reality because you use one of your 5 senses to observe it.  How do you observe a mystical being's presence?  Do you physically touch it?  Do you smell it?  I guess a blind person can't see it.  Do you hear it?  No.  But you can physically feel that it is cold or hot.  Any other questions?



the old argument about "what do you know outside your senses"
one word.. faith
don't miss something right in front of you because your 5 senses don't know it's there.


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> great point



Not so great a point when you take into account that observational reality has more than just one sense.  The human body has 4 other senses... one of which is touch / feel.  One can "feel" that it is cold, but it is in a different sense than the 6th sense where you "feel" a mystical being's presence.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> the old argument about "what do you know outside your senses"
> one word.. faith
> don't miss something right in front of you because your 5 senses don't know it's there.



Thanks for inspiring me to start a new thread.  Wait for that.


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## emusmacker (Oct 27, 2010)

David, didn't know you were achilles spokesman, but anyway, you're munked up in the head dude, just got to have faith but of course you don't know anything about that do?


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## Achilles Return (Oct 27, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Hey Achilles, what if a blind person feels heat or cold, how is that observational reality?  Oh yeah and they are alone with no one to tell them that is hot or cold.  HMMMM



I didn't realize sight was the only empirical sense we had.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 27, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> David, didn't know you were achilles spokesman, but anyway, you're munked up in the head dude, just got to have faith but of course you don't know anything about that do?



Faith is nothing more than rank speculation. Humans accomplish things on rational inquiry and logical deduction - not faith. Faith has done nothing but be an unfounded base for the imaginations of the deluded.


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## davidstaples (Oct 27, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> David, didn't know you were achilles spokesman, but anyway, you're munked up in the head dude, just got to have faith but of course you don't know anything about that do?



I'm not achilles spokesman, and I'm not munked up in the head... dude.  I know plenty about having faith, which you'd know if you'd been in the conversation for any more than 2 minutes.  I grew up going to church every Sunday and Wednesday and actively chose an alternative path in my late teens / early 20's.  But I appreciate your Christian-like attitude of judging someone you don't even know... dude.


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## emusmacker (Oct 28, 2010)

Well dude, glad you went to church "all the time" but if you learned anything while you were there, you'd know that even Satan tempted Jesus and quoted scripture doing it, so no I don't know you but yes am judging you on your conversation. There is such a thing as righteous judgement, but then again you probably wasn't in church long enough to know that either ....DUDE.

Also there are plenty of church goers that are not Christians.


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## emusmacker (Oct 28, 2010)

Oh by the way dude, I went back and looked at some of your previous responses, and calling God a "mystical" creature proves to me that your "faith" as you want to try and justify just shows that you really are munked up in the head.


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## davidstaples (Oct 28, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Oh by the way dude, I went back and looked at some of your previous responses, and calling God a "mystical" creature proves to me that your "faith" as you want to try and justify just shows that you really are munked up in the head.



Calling someone "munked up in the head" isn't exactly a righteous judgement.



> but then again you probably wasn't in church long enough to know that either ....DUDE



You probably weren't in school long enough to know that your "wasn't" should have been "weren't". 



> but if you learned anything while you were there, you'd know that even Satan tempted Jesus and quoted scripture doing it



Yes, I realize the Bible talks about Satan tempting Jesus... what does that have to do with me knowing anything about "having faith"?  You said I wouldn't know anything about that... I countered that I know quite a bit about having faith... I just don't have faith in a mythical being like you do.  I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm saying nobody has yet proven the existence of said being.  That's why it's called faith.  But I'm sure you knew that.  Perhaps you'd like to respond once you've improved upon your logical reasoning skills a bit?


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## Nicodemus (Oct 28, 2010)

Everybody, in the interest of fairness, be civil to each other. This applies to athiests, christians, unscrubbed barbarians, or whatever you are.


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## RThomas (Oct 28, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Everybody, in the interest of fairness, be civil to each other. This applies to athiests, christians, unscrubbed barbarians, or whatever you are.



You're a busy man, Nic.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 28, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> Faith is nothing more than rank speculation. Humans accomplish things on rational inquiry and logical deduction - not faith. Faith has done nothing but be an unfounded base for the imaginations of the deluded.



On the contrary, my faith has really comforted me in some hard times.


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## davidstaples (Oct 29, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> On the contrary, my faith has really comforted me in some hard times.



It's still speculation.  The comfort is a side effect of your faith.


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## ambush80 (Oct 29, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> On the contrary, my faith has really comforted me in some hard times.





davidstaples said:


> It's still speculation.  The comfort is a side effect of your faith.



I insist that my lucky rattle trap has magical fish catching powers.


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## hayseed_theology (Oct 29, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I insist that my lucky rattle trap has magical fish catching powers.



According to the man on TV, so does the Banjo Minnow.


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## ambush80 (Oct 29, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> According to the man on TV, so does the Banjo Minnow.



Muslims think that praying to Allah works, too.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 29, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I insist that my lucky rattle trap has magical fish catching powers.



Don't laugh! It might! If you believe you're lucky, you will be.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 29, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> It's still speculation.  The comfort is a side effect of your faith.



In many ways, yes, you are correct. I know that my heavenly father will take care of me. 

I believe the issue is how we define "faith" differently. My faith is not my belief, it's what I know. 
However, my faith to you is just another belief. Does that sound about right?


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## Achilles Return (Oct 29, 2010)

But there are objective definitions for the words faith and knowledge. You can't simply create your own definitions to mean something else.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 30, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> But there are objective definitions for the words faith and knowledge. You can't simply create your own definitions to mean something else.



Oh, I agree that the definitions of words in the English language must be abided by and I'm not creating my own definitions. I've been going through all the generally accepted online dictionaries looking up definitions of faith, belief, knowledge, and fact, but to save time, let me just say that I've decided that we're not debating the existence of God. What we're really debating is the evidence. Would you agree that the evidence that has me convinced does not have you convinced (and vice versa)? Where do we go from here?


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 30, 2010)

I guess I'm going to have to get new and better evidence for ya'll!


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## davidstaples (Oct 31, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> My faith is not my belief, it's what I know.



I know vampires exist.  I mean, I've never seen one.  I've never talked to one on the phone.  Never even known someone who's seen one in person or anything.  But I watched the first couple of Twilight movies and may read the books soon, so I know they exist.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 31, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I know vampires exist.  I mean, I've never seen one.  I've never talked to one on the phone.  Never even known someone who's seen one in person or anything.  But I watched the first couple of Twilight movies and may read the books soon, so I know they exist.



I guess the difference is that I've had some conversations with what I believe in. Sorry, I've gotta pass on the Twilight series. They sound like Shakesperian romance to me.


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## Achilles Return (Oct 31, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> I guess the difference is that I've had some conversations with what I believe in.



lol, ok.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 31, 2010)

Achilles Return said:


> lol, ok.



Are we talking about something or are we laughing?


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## chief401 (Oct 31, 2010)

I am just going to throw this out there. I am a christian and proud of it. Every person has the capability to believe the way he or she wants to. Now with that being said, if you are not a christian(that is your choice) and death calls, what will you do if you are wrong( just asking)?


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## Achilles Return (Nov 1, 2010)

chief401 said:


> I am just going to throw this out there. I am a christian and proud of it. Every person has the capability to believe the way he or she wants to. Now with that being said, if you are not a christian(that is your choice) and death calls, what will you do if you are wrong( just asking)?



This question has been asked several thousand times.


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## davidstaples (Nov 1, 2010)

chief401 said:


> I am just going to throw this out there. I am a christian and proud of it. Every person has the capability to believe the way he or she wants to. Now with that being said, if you are not a christian(that is your choice) and death calls, what will you do if you are wrong( just asking)?



I suppose if I'm wrong I'll go to the place down under.  (I've heard Australia is nice this time of year.)

Let's turn that question around.  What will you do if you're wrong?  What if Islam is right?  Or Buddhism?  What if you've wasted all your time preaching and witnessing to others about something that is indeed false?

Belief in something for fear of the alternative is not true belief.  It simply raises the amount raised on Sundays when the offering plate is passed.


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## RThomas (Nov 1, 2010)

chief401 said:


> I am just going to throw this out there. I am a christian and proud of it. Every person has the capability to believe the way he or she wants to. Now with that being said, if you are not a christian(that is your choice) and death calls, what will you do if you are wrong( just asking)?



Pascal's Wager

http://www.religioustolerance.org/pascal_w.htm


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## stringmusic (Nov 1, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I suppose if I'm wrong I'll go to the place down under.  (I've heard Australia is nice this time of year.)
> 
> Let's turn that question around.  What will you do if you're wrong?  What if Islam is right?  Or Buddhism?  What if you've wasted all your time preaching and witnessing to others about something that is indeed false?
> 
> Belief in something for fear of the alternative is not true belief.  It simply raises the amount raised on Sundays when the offering plate is passed.



Are you kidding me David?  That question has been answered thousands of times on here, I have answered it personally for you on here, If you are not going to learn here at least pay attention.


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## davidstaples (Nov 1, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> Are you kidding me David?  That question has been answered thousands of times on here, I have answered it personally for you on here, If you are not going to learn here at least pay attention.



Errm... did I miss something?  Someone asked a question, I answered.  Was there a point to your post or were you just rambling?  There's medications for that you know.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 1, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> Errm... did I miss something?  Someone asked a question, I answered.  Was there a point to your post or were you just rambling?  There's medications for that you know.



There were too many question marks in that to be an answer.


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## TTom (Nov 1, 2010)

String when you start telling your fellow Christians that their Pascal's Wager statements have been asked and anwered a thousand times then your protests against the rebuttal question might carry some weight.

Unless and until you treat your Christian brothers statements like chief401's :

"I am just going to throw this out there. I am a christian and proud of it. Every person has the capability to believe the way he or she wants to. Now with that being said, if you are not a christian(that is your choice) and death calls, what will you do if you are wrong( just asking)?"

with equal incredulousness to that you show David's rebuttal of

"Let's turn that question around. What will you do if you're wrong? What if Islam is right? Or Buddhism? What if you've wasted all your time preaching and witnessing to others about something that is indeed false?"

I'm going to have to consider your protest to be based on hypocrisy rather than substance.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 1, 2010)

I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 1, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?



Thats been asked, they are just going to bring up a santa story.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 1, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> Thats been asked, they are just going to bring up a santa story.





Git. I`m askin` the athiests, and it`s a serious question.


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## TTom (Nov 1, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?



Self Defense


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## TTom (Nov 1, 2010)

serious answer,

I'm not an atheist so maybe it doesn't count, but I am a non Christian who has studied a great deal of the bible and Christianity.

I study many of the various world faiths, I find value in many of them including despite many people casting me as anti Christian, finding value in Christianity. 

I simply have not limited my study to Christianity the way many people do.


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## davidstaples (Nov 1, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?



I grew up in a household where my father was Southern Baptist and mother was a Christian Scientist (no, not Scientology like Tom Cruise... Christian Science like Mary Baker Eddy).  I used to consider myself a Christian.  It was in my late teens / early 20's that I started considering that very same question... what if I'm wrong.  What if what I was raised to believe isn't really true?  If I was raised as a Buddhist, I'd probably have considered myself a Buddhist at that age.  Islam - same deal.  People tend to inherit the faiths of their parents.  

So I went searching for what I truly believed in... and it had to have more substance than "because I was raised Christian".  I think one of the ones I found the most interesting was Wicca.  But I still just couldn't find myself fully believing in any of the major religions.  None of them have absolute proof.

I like the line from the movie Dogma... I think religion can be a good idea.  I believe some people need religion.  It offers comfort and a peace of mind... and all you have to do is believe.  Don't get me wrong... I'd love for there to be an afterlife called heaven.  But there's some underlying principles of Christianity that I just can't seem to find myself agreeing with or having enough proof for.

Do I believe Jesus existed?  Yes.  Do I believe he was the son of the one true "God" in the sense that most Christians believe?  It's possible.  It's also possible that he isn't.  Do I believe the God that the Bible speaks of as being loving and caring would send people to the place down under (really... I don't think Australia is that bad...) simply for not believing?  No.  I think anything is possible.  I'm not saying there's definitely not a God, but I'll use the "mythical creature" argument until I keel over so long as the other party in a debate refuses to look at both sides of the argument with an open mind.


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 1, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I grew up in a household where my father was Southern Baptist and mother was a Christian Scientist (no, not Scientology like Tom Cruise... Christian Science like Mary Baker Eddy).  I used to consider myself a Christian.  It was in my late teens / early 20's that I started considering that very same question... what if I'm wrong.  What if what I was raised to believe isn't really true?  If I was raised as a Buddhist, I'd probably have considered myself a Buddhist at that age.  Islam - same deal.  People tend to inherit the faiths of their parents.
> 
> So I went searching for what I truly believed in... and it had to have more substance than "because I was raised Christian".  I think one of the ones I found the most interesting was Wicca.  But I still just couldn't find myself fully believing in any of the major religions.  None of them have absolute proof.
> 
> ...



Thank you David. That's a well thought out answer. 

So, proof is the issue. Difficult to provide, as you well know. A relationship with God is such a personal thing. It's hard to provide evidence for a feeling or a change in my life without others thinking it was just a decision that I made. Since you're familiar with Christian Science, things such as healings are probably difficult to provide absolute evidence for as well. Ultimately, this may just be such a personal thing that every person has to work out their own salvation with God. You may not ever believe until God provides you that one piece of unique evidence that would convince only you of his reality.


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## davidstaples (Nov 1, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> Thank you David. That's a well thought out answer.
> 
> So, proof is the issue. Difficult to provide, as you well know. A relationship with God is such a personal thing. It's hard to provide evidence for a feeling or a change in my life without others thinking it was just a decision that I made. Since you're familiar with Christian Science, things such as healings are probably difficult to provide absolute evidence for as well. Ultimately, this may just be such a personal thing that every person has to work out their own salvation with God. You may not ever believe until God provides you that one piece of unique evidence that would convince only you of his reality.



Yep.  My mother was a firm believer in Christian Science.  She felt a lump in her breast, but Christian Science teaches that we're not really sick... that it's a matter of correcting your thought because we're created in the image and likeness of God.  That lump grew... and it spread.  By the time my father got her to agree to go to the hospital the cancer had spread too far and was eating away at her bones.  That was May of 2001.  They said it was too late and that there was nothing they could do for her except make her comfortable.  She passed away in February of 2002.  I can tell you that Christian Science may work for some, but it doesn't work for me.  And every piece of Christian Science literature I find around their house has been shredded, burned or disposed of in some other way to ensure it never reaches someone else's hands and eyes.


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 1, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> Yep.  My mother was a firm believer in Christian Science.  She felt a lump in her breast, but Christian Science teaches that we're not really sick... that it's a matter of correcting your thought because we're created in the image and likeness of God.  That lump grew... and it spread.  By the time my father got her to agree to go to the hospital the cancer had spread too far and was eating away at her bones.  That was May of 2001.  They said it was too late and that there was nothing they could do for her except make her comfortable.  She passed away in February of 2002.  I can tell you that Christian Science may work for some, but it doesn't work for me.  And every piece of Christian Science literature I find around their house has been shredded, burned or disposed of in some other way to ensure it never reaches someone else's hands and eyes.



I do understand. I lost my mother to cancer as well. We're Baptists, so Doctors and hospitals quickly became a familiar part of our life. Same outcome however. The rain falls on everybody; Christian Scientists, Baptists, and non believers. I had a similar crisis of faith, but I came out of it with a stronger belief. It took several difficult and painful years though. I hope yours turns out positively as well.


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## chief401 (Nov 1, 2010)

I love putting that question out there( see question above). That is about the usual feedback. Once again people are free to believe as they want to (at least at the present moment). I also went through a trying time with some major health issues about ten years ago. After doctors said that it would get worse before it got better, i trusted in my faith and got better, was it my faith, was it luck, i am saying faith. Now i know we are about to see all kinds of answers from fellow gon members, just remember i believe what i believe as does every other person believes, as he or she has the right to do. Thanks for reading.


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## chief401 (Nov 1, 2010)

One more thing, just asking, if a " mystical being" ( as was referred to in somebodys post) did not create us where did we come from. Please do not say we evolved from apes or monkeys. (come on now)


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 2, 2010)

chief401 said:


> One more thing, just asking, if a " mystical being" ( as was referred to in somebodys post) did not create us where did we come from. Please do not say we evolved from apes or monkeys. (come on now)



fOR REAL. If we would have evovled from them wouldnt their still be some evolving every now and then? wouldnt we have some new animal pop up in the last 2,000 years?


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## davidstaples (Nov 2, 2010)

chief401 said:


> One more thing, just asking, if a " mystical being" ( as was referred to in somebodys post) did not create us where did we come from. Please do not say we evolved from apes or monkeys. (come on now)



That's why I call myself an agnostic.  Like I said, I'm not saying there is definitely not a god out there.  I'm saying I don't know and you don't know either.

Just for kicks, if there is a god out there, who created it (him/her/whatever)?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 2, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> That's why I call myself an agnostic.  Like I said, I'm not saying there is definitely not a god out there.  I'm saying I don't know and you don't know either.
> 
> Just for kicks, if there is a god out there, who created it (him/her/whatever)?



he is just like matter... cant be created nor destroyed, bible says he has always been here, and us christans have to put our faith to that.


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## Achilles Return (Nov 2, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?



Knowledge is power. And religion is far from the only thing I like to study.


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## pnome (Nov 2, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ll say one thing for you athiests, ya`ll are smart and well learned . No doubt that. My question is, *why do ya`ll spend so much time studyin` something you don`t even believe in?*



One does not lightly cast aside the promise of eternal life in Heaven.


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## davidstaples (Nov 2, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> he is just like matter... cant be created nor destroyed, bible says he has always been here, and us christans have to put our faith to that.



So Earth / humans / etc. all had to be created because after all... they couldn't have just been around forever.  But "God"... well, he's existed forever... he wasn't created.  Errm... I don't see that as a logical view.


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## chief401 (Nov 2, 2010)

Interesting replies. Hmmmmmmmm.......


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## The Original Rooster (Nov 2, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> So Earth / humans / etc. all had to be created because after all... they couldn't have just been around forever.  But "God"... well, he's existed forever... he wasn't created.  Errm... I don't see that as a logical view.



Ambush and I have had this conversation several times. If you consider time to be linear, it does seem to be illogical. I believe that time (reality) is not just linear, but also has depth and width. Don't ask me to explain too much though. It makes my head hurt to think too much on election days!


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 2, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> fOR REAL. If we would have evovled from them wouldnt their still be some evolving every now and then? wouldnt we have some new animal pop up in the last 2,000 years?



Evolution is a long, slow process.  Much longer than the 18 or so years you've been around.   

Also, I'm recommending some reading so that you can be more informed:


> There are two sides to this question: one is whether any modern view of evolution requires that there only be one instance of a "type" and once it has been evolved out of, it should go extinct. This is a silly belief that itself is based on ideas that predate even Linnaeus - that each "position" on the "scale of nature" once occupied by a lineage, must become empty when that lineage moves upward. No theory of evolution has held this view for at least 200 years, even before Darwin. If we did evolve from monkeys, then monkeys do not all have to go extinct just because another kind of monkey (i.e., us) has evolved.


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## chief401 (Nov 2, 2010)

Ham i do agree on some more reading. Like others in this post, i agree with research also. So my friend we do agree on that. I also enjoy hearing other perspectives on this wonderful thing called life. I also do actually like to converse with agnostics, atheist, as well as other christians.


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