# rifle hunting turkey?



## savage270

Have anyone hunted turkey with a rifle?

If so, what caliber will kill effectively with minimal damage and what shot placement?

thanks,


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## GeauxLSU

Savage,
Muzzle loaders are the only legal rifle in Georgia to take turkeys with.  Shotguns are by far the preferred weapon.  It is not common practice at all and I actually don't know first hand anyone who's done it.  
In other states where it is legal, I'm guessing any smaller centerfire rifle would be common.


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## Sugar Hill Scouter

I'll tell you, there have been times when I wished I had a muzzloading rifle with me when the bird would just not come in.


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## Snakeman

From the Georgia hunting regulations pamphlet:

TURKEY FIREARMS:  Shotguns with No. 2 or smaller shot and any muzzleloading firearm (scopes legal).

The Snakeman


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## dutchman

What about Texas? You can use a rifle there, or so I've been told. Maybe Savage270 is planning a road trip.


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## GeauxLSU

dutchman said:


> What about Texas? You can use a rifle there, or so I've been told. Maybe Savage270 is planning a road trip.


Absolutely.  He's a new hunter so I just assumed he was asking about home and may not yet be familiar with the regs.  That was why I said 





			
				GeauxLSU said:
			
		

> In other states where it is legal, I'm guessing any smaller centerfire rifle would be common.


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## Twenty five ought six

I can remember when I was much much younger, one of the staples of the outdoor magazines were artcles about the "best" turkey rifle (and crow rifle too.)  Unfortunately, I don't remember what they were, 

Seems to me they were mostly .22 cal. centerfires that focused the smaller rounds like the .22 hornet.  I do remember some articles about "reduced" loads in .22-250, etc. Just like the eternal 9 mm vs. .40 cal v. .45 debate , there were articles about whether the .22 hornet was enough gun, and counter articles about that it was if you were man enough to use it.  Also there were articles about whether is was "sporting" to take body shots with a rifle, or should you limit your self to head shots.

I'm thinking one of the .17 HMR would do the trick.

I also remember the great rifle/shotgun debates.  One of the early impetuses (impetiti?) for NWTF was its advocacy for shotgun only spring hunting.  Some of the articles got right nasty (imagine that).

We tend to forget that there was a whole market niche for turkey and crow rifles.


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## Killdee

Savage built a 22 hornet 12 ga over and under back in the day.Wouldnt be safe these days,people dont have enought sense.The hornet wouldnt give you much more range than modern shotguns and loads anyway.I'll stick to my 12 bore.I do tote my 150 year old Bettis rifle on my private lease every year at least 1or 2 trips,still no shots over 40 yds for me.


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## Fishman

*Turkey rifle*

You can shoot them with any rifle but the smaller calibers loaded down works best.  You have to shoot high on the wing butts so as not to destroy the breast meat.  22 magnum and Hornet  was a favorite of the old guys in Texas.   I tried it when I lived in San Antonio and it's not as easy as it seems.  You are shooting something the size of a baseball.  Anything over 100 yards is not practicle on something that constantly moves like they do.


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## dognducks

does this mean i cant legally take my .50 cal muzzleloader out turkey hunting and georgia. i thought it had to be a shotgun muzzleloader?


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## GeauxLSU

strutrut247 said:


> does this mean i cant legally take my .50 cal muzzleloader out turkey hunting and georgia. i thought it had to be a shotgun muzzleloader?


Does not have to be a shotgun.  Not sure if it can be scoped or not.


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## Gadget

Yes scoped muzzleloading rifles are legal in Georgia.


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## dognducks

hmmm.... never new that. that almost seems to be cheating


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## stev

Why would you want to hunt turkeys with a rifle anyhow?


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## dognducks

i might just have to try that next year with my muzzleloader. i had soo many birds hang up this year at 50 and 60 yards. that t/c omega will show them whats up next year.


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## Sugar Hill Scouter

strutrut247 said:


> i might just have to try that next year with my muzzleloader. i had soo many birds hang up this year at 50 and 60 yards. that t/c omega will show them whats up next year.


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## 56willysnut

In Texas I used a .22mag and a shotgun, just in case one hung up just outta shotgun range. I took two with my .45-70 buffalo rifle. Just hit them high at the wing root area.


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## Paddle

First turkey I ever killed was with a .45 cal Muzzleloader. 

It has also been the closest turkey I've ever killed. All the rest has been with shotguns. 

It is legal and there is nothing wrong with hunting with a ML.


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## hawglips

No place in turkey hunting for rifles.


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## savage270

Thanks for the reply, yeah, had no idea rifles were illegal for turkey, just trying to learn here and there.


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## hawglips

If turkeys are consistently hanging up at 50 to 60 yards, I'd reconsider the way I typically set up, and/or my calling habits.

Hal


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## Gadget

hawglips said:


> If turkeys are consistently hanging up at 50 to 60 yards, I'd reconsider the way I typically set up, and/or my calling habits.
> 
> Hal


 

  .................... but thar just aint no need to call one in, not when you can plink em with a rifle, just aint no need. no need for calls, no need for pistol grips........ BUT you will need a scope to seem em at 150 yds.......


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## 243Savage

hawglips said:


> No place in turkey hunting for rifles.


Given that some folks subscribe to a different set of ethics and personal ideals in regard to turkey hunting, I fully understand why anyone would say that but I have to respectfully disagree.  Some folks idea of turkey hunting may not be all about calling in the bird and setting up properly according to "the right way to turkey hunt" as is so frequently vocalized by a lot of folks. I'm not one of those folks because I choose to be, as I'm sure many others are not as well for a variety of reasons.  If I can use a rifle legally, I will choose to do so.  For me, it ain't about playing the game, it's about putting a wild turkey in the freezer by the most efficient way possible and the most efficient way for some would be by use of a rifle.   It's a matter of personal choice in accordance with legal options available to harvest game.


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## Randy

243Savage said:


> For me, it ain't about playing the game, it's about putting a wild turkey in the freezer by the most efficient way possible and the most efficient way for some would be by use of a rifle.



Yep.  There are hunters and there are killers.  Luckily, Georgia only allows hunters legally.


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## Rockin Randall

Right on Randy; the same ol folks that want to make it legal to kill game over a pile of korn are the same ones that want to shoot them with rifles etc.


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## 243Savage

Randy said:


> Yep.  There are hunters and there are killers.  Luckily, Georgia only allows hunters legally.



Hunting: It's a simple concept of being in the woods with a firearm in pursuit of game by whatever legal options there are to choose from and comply with.  The end result is the same once the trigger is pulled.  If it makes you feel better to label someone who doesn't play the game but chooses to do it legally in a different manner than what you believe is the right way, knock yourself out.  Don't start beating the ethics drum, everyone has differing beliefs which we should all respect.  Lots of folks are tired of the holier than thou ethics marching band.


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## Just BB

I'm only giving my thoughts on this but I don't believe the current regulations in Georgia are done so with only ethics or traditional methods or "playing the game" in mind.
The fact that modern rifles are illegal in Georgia could very well be due to the fact that it is a safety issue. Every year, even with the closer range of a shotgun, some  peahead pulls the trigger on what he just swore was a Turkey and shoots someone. Spring Turkey hunting by nature is calling like a hen to a gobbler to bring him in for the shot. Imagine how many folks would be nailed between the eyes while giving their best hen calls by some peahead from 100 yards away using a rifle that saw movement and just knew it was a turkey. Believe me, it would happen. There are too many people going into the woods today that are clueless when it comes to woodmanship.


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## Spotlite

243Savage said:


> Don't start beating the ethics drum, everyone has differing beliefs which we should all respect.  Lots of folks are tired of the holier than thou ethics marching band.



That is the best sound logical statement I have heard in a while.  

I cant stand those that sit around and use "THEIR" ideas and use it as a standard to judge others by. Wasnt there something not to long ago where a fella stuck his nose in others business and had to go to court


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## DixieDeerSlayer

My home state of FL has a Fall Turkey Season where it is legal to take turkeys with rifle, shotgun, bow, crossbow,  pistol, or muzzleloader.

 I have LEGALLY taken a turkey with all licenses and  permits required by law in the fall with by Browning A-Bolt .243 with scope while sitting in deerstand. Didn't go turkey hunting, I was deer hunting, but I just couldn't pass up the chance to have some fresh wild turkey.

I shot the 11" beard 1 1/4" spur ( my biggest to date ) in the base of the neck at 75 yards. Am I a ruthless, cold-blooded killer? I think not, I am just an avid hunter who enjoys a smoked wild turkey. 

I still hunt them in the spring by " traditional methods " every year. 

I believe I am just as ethical, if not more so than most hunters, because I define ethics as what someone does when they know no one is looking. 

If I am a " killer " for this then so be it. I am sure I am not alone.

We are all " hunters " guys. Some of us don't bowhunt. Some of us don't muzzleloader hunt. Some of us don't rifle hunt. But we are all " hunters ".


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## Spotlite

Randy said:


> Yep.  There are hunters and there are killers.  Luckily, Georgia only allows hunters legally.



But, there are "legal" hunters and there "illegal" hunters.

Same for killers 

As far as the opinions of the "individual" ethical standards, they are just that, "individual".


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## jcarter

i think its a safety issue also. if you think about it..your not really hunting spring turkeys. your luring them to you with mating and social calls. once you learn their habits and can call fairly decently its no big deal to get one in shotgun range. for an adrenaline rush it cant be beat. if they were to make rifles legal i might give it a go. call one in to about 80 yards and pop him in the head with a 22 mag. that would be pretty cool too.


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## Spotlite

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> I have LEGALLY taken           with all licenses and  permits required by law



I need to borrow your thoughts DixieDeerSlayer. 

The problem is, the "ethics preachers" cant get past that statement right there. Its either there way or your unethical. What is legal is the last thing on their minds. But ethics start with obeying the law first. Remember the kids in school that used to say, "my Daddy can beat up your Daddy"

Thats the same ones screaming that we are hunting unethical.


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## Just BB

Stop and think for a moment. You're on the ground, full camo, calling like a Turkey. Would you feel safer knowing that any other hunter out there is going to have to get within say forty yards to take a shot at your moving head or would you feel safer with them at 125 yards propped up aiming at your movng head with a rifle? Think and answer honestly. There are alot of people going Turkey hunting for the first time and that have no real hunting experience. We all may be great woodsman and would never shoot at a movement but there are those out there that will. I'm not concerned with ethics. I am concerned with my ability to keep breathing though. This post is turning into a na na n nana game. I'm going to go get some stats if I can find them on hunting related accidents concerns turkey hunting with rifle vs shotguns and get back to you.


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## GeauxLSU

Guys,
Don't forget we are discussing something that is ILLEGAL in Georgia.  If it becomes legal, I guarantee you it will eventually become acceptable.  JUST LIKE a fall season.  Some just don't want it and can't articulate why they don't want it.  It just doesn't seem right to them because they've never been exposed to it or it's not what they know and enjoy.  That's fine.  
You can rifle hunt turkeys (including hens) in Texas in the fall (parts of Alabama too?).  It's a wonder there's a bird walking or a hunter alive there I guess.  
Anyway.... it's my observation people hold illogical opinions regarding the harvest of deer, trout and turkey (primarily).  There is no reasoning about it.  It is simply ingrained.  
Tweaking a shotgun to shoot twice as far as they used to for spring turkey is fine for some reason but using a muzzle loader to do the SAME THING is not?   
Using a bow to wound countless deer that go unrecovered (I REALLY wish people would stop posting those endless stories BTW....) is completely acceptable and as a matter of fact apparently prefered, but 'cheating' and using a scoped rifle to more quickly and most assuredly with a much higher percentage, humanely put the animal down is not sporting?!?!   
Some conversations are simply not worth having unless it's for entertainment.


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## GeauxLSU

Just BB said:


> Stop and think for a moment. You're on the ground, full camo, calling like a Turkey. Would you feel safer knowing that any other hunter out there is going to have to get within say forty yards to take a shot at your moving head or would you feel safer with them at 125 yards propped up aiming at your movng head with a rifle? Think and answer honestly. There are alot of people going Turkey hunting for the first time and that have no real hunting experience. We all may be great woodsman and would never shoot at a movement but there are those out there that will. I'm not concerned with ethics. I am concerned with my ability to keep breathing though. This post is turning into a na na n nana game. I'm going to go get some stats if I can find them on hunting related accidents concerns turkey hunting with rifle vs shotguns and get back to you.


BB,
Though I agree with your supposition, you can't legislate intelligence.  I remember when I moved to Illinois and was inquiring at a sporting's goods desk about buying a rifle license for deer.  The guy looked at me like I had three heads and said, and I quote, "It's illegal to hunt deer with a rifle here.  Way too dangerous."  
He got the 'you have three heads' look right back.


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## jcarter

just dont wear any blue, red ,or white in the woods and i promise i wont shoot you.


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## Just BB

GeauxLSU said:


> Guys,
> Don't forget we are discussing something that is ILLEGAL in Georgia.  If it becomes legal, I guarantee you it will eventually become acceptable.  JUST LIKE a fall season.  Some just don't want it and can't articulate why they don't want it.  It just doesn't seem right to them because they've never been exposed to it or it's not what they know and enjoy.  That's fine.
> You can rifle hunt turkeys (including hens) in Texas in the fall (parts of Alabama too?).  It's a wonder there's a bird walking or a hunter alive there I guess.
> Anyway.... it's my observation people hold illogical opinions regarding the harvest of deer, trout and turkey (primarily).  There is no reasoning about it.  It is simply ingrained.
> Tweaking a shotgun to shoot twice as far as they used to for spring turkey is fine for some reason but using a muzzle loader to do the SAME THING is not?
> Using a bow to wound countless deer that go unrecovered (I REALLY wish people would stop posting those endless stories BTW....) is completely acceptable and as a matter of fact apparently prefered, but 'cheating' and using a scoped rifle to more quickly and most assuredly with a much higher percentage, humanely put the animal down is not sporting?!?!
> Some conversations are simply not worth having unless it's for entertainment.



YEEES ...Preach brother! I agree with you.


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## Just BB

Phil, I hear ya. I'm not climbing a tree to hunt turkeys in rifle legal states. Dem birds can fly. Wouldn't feel safe on the ground or in a tree. Thanks goodness Deer don't lite in trees.


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## DixieDeerSlayer

The problem with the " safety issue " is the person who is going to shoot at the " tree making turkey noises " is going to shoot it regardless. They are criminals. Did they positively identify what they were shooting at as well as what is behind it ...... NO! 

Just like people getting shot and the shooter saying " I thought he/she was a deer". This theory holds no water with me. In FL does are legal only during certain times. This tells me that the shooter didn't look close enough to determine sex. Therefore he broke the law before he squeezed the trigger. 

Same goes for a hunter shooting another turkey hunter. The rifle doesn't matter, these are simply acts of crime.


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## jcarter

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> The problem with the " safety issue " is the person who is going to shoot at the " tree making turkey noises " is going to shoot it regardless. They are criminals. Did they positively identify what they were shooting at as well as what is behind it ...... NO!
> 
> Just like people getting shot and the shooter saying " I thought he/she was a deer". This theory holds no water with me. In FL does are legal only during certain times. This tells me that the shooter didn't look close enough to determine sex. Therefore he broke the law before he squeezed the trigger.
> 
> Same goes for a hunter shooting another turkey hunter. The rifle doesn't matter, this is simply acts of crime.



what about hikers and all those other people who have no business out in the woods when im trying to hunt. can we shoot them and not be called criminals. most likely they are going to be wearing those red, blues and whites anyway. you know how hikers are..always trying to make a fashion statement. id hate to be thought of as a criminal just for shooting some hiker who is traipsing along down some trail. id be the first to admit that shooting a fellow hunter could be seen as a crime...but ..come on ...nobody is really gonna miss a hiker anyway.


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## Just BB

Yes, the person that will shoot at movement without identifying their target is going to do it regardless. But just maybe the fool will recognize me has a person at 30 yards where as at 100 yards it may not be the case.


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## Spotlite

jcarter said:


> what about hikers and all those other people who have no business out in the woods when im trying to hunt. can we shoot them and not be called criminals. most likely they are going to be wearing those red, blues and whites anyway. you know how hikers are..always trying to make a fashion statement. id hate to be thought of as a criminal just for shooting some hiker who is traipsing along down some trail. id be the first to admit that shooting a fellow hunter could be seen as a crime...but ..come on ...nobody is really gonna miss a hiker anyway.



If it gets to that point, I dont think it would matter what you shot or what you shot it with, you shot the wrong thing. Most accidents are from people not taking time to know what they are shooting and what is beyond that target, redardless if you shooting a bow or rifle, you are suppose to know that info.


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## fulldraw74

Just BB said:


> Yes, the person that will shoot at movement without identifying their target is going to do it regardless. But just maybe the fool will recognize me has a person at 30 yards where as at 100 yards it may not be the case.



I have a good friend who was shot in the face at 26 yards about 10 years ago by a turkey hunter. He survived....Your correct when you say those people will do it regardless........


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## Randy

Spotlite said:


> As far as the opinions of the "individual" ethical standards, they are just that, "individual".



Opinions are individual, ethics are not.


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## 243Savage

Randy said:


> Opinions are individual, ethics are not.



OMG.  Come on now Randy.  Here....from Merriam-Webster.  Notice the "I" word.  

Main Entry: eth·ic 
Pronunciation: 'e-thik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek EthikE, from Ethikos
1 plural but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation  Who decides moral duty and obligation?...the individual does.
2 a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values <the present-day materialistic ethic> <an old-fashioned work ethic> -- often used in plural but sing. or plural in constr. <an elaborate ethics> <Christian ethics> b plural but singular or plural in construction : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group <professional ethics> c : a guiding philosophy d : a consciousness of moral importance <forge a conservation ethic>


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## Spotlite

Randy said:


> Opinions are individual, ethics are not.



Where then is it written, a set of ethics to follow?

 Or is it still considered by the following?

Anything other than this, comes back to what an individual decides for himself to add to this.


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## hawglips

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> The problem with the " safety issue " is the person who is going to shoot at the " tree making turkey noises " is going to shoot it regardless. They are criminals. Did they positively identify what they were shooting at as well as what is behind it ...... NO!



If a guy wants to shoot at the "turkey" with a shotgun, he's got to get pretty close to do it, thereby increasing the odds that he'll see the "turkey" is actually a person and hold his fire.  If he's toting a rifle, he's toting it so he can shoot the "turkey" from further away.  Further away, increases the chances that the target will not be properly identified, or what's behind the target will not be seen.   In order to hurt me badly with the biggest turkey shotgun loads out there, he's got to get pretty close.  T'ain't so if his shooting iron has a rifled barrel and long-range killing capability.

If I've got decoys in a field, and I'm set up on the edge of the woods, and you're across the field with your high powered deer rifle looking to kill a turkey for dinner, I'm in a high risk situation, should you turn out to be the type of hunter that wants to kill a turkey worse than he wants to hunt one. 

As long as killers are allowed to masquerade as hunters, their ain't no room for rifles in turkey hunting. 

Hal


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## hawglips

fulldraw74 said:


> I have a good friend who was shot in the face at 26 yards about 10 years ago by a turkey hunter. He survived....Your correct when you say those people will do it regardless........



I shudder to think of the outcome had the turkey "hunter" been toting a high powered rifle instead of a shotgun.

Hal


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## hawglips

GeauxLSU said:


> Guys,
> Don't forget we are discussing something that is ILLEGAL in Georgia.  If it becomes legal, I guarantee you it will eventually become acceptable.  JUST LIKE a fall season.  Some just don't want it and can't articulate why they don't want it.  It just doesn't seem right to them because they've never been exposed to it or it's not what they know and enjoy.  That's fine.
> You can rifle hunt turkeys (including hens) in Texas in the fall (parts of Alabama too?).  It's a wonder there's a bird walking or a hunter alive there I guess.
> Anyway.... it's my observation people hold illogical opinions regarding the harvest of deer, trout and turkey (primarily).  There is no reasoning about it.  It is simply ingrained.



Did anybody read Lovett William's article in the last Turkey and Turkey Hunting?

He pushed the "shoot jakes in the fall" line pretty hard.  Said the laws that don't allow it are "arbitrary," I believe.

Hal


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## dutchman

Randy said:


> Yep.  There are hunters and there are killers.  Luckily, Georgia only allows hunters legally.



Right! Including the hunters that choose to use scoped muzzleloading rifles.


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## fulldraw74

hawglips said:


> I shudder to think of the outcome had the turkey "hunter" been toting a high powered rifle instead of a shotgun.
> 
> Hal



I agree......but we have deer hunters every year doing just that. Toting high powered rifles.


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## hawglips

fulldraw74 said:


> I agree......but we have deer hunters every year doing just that. Toting high powered rifles.



But not too many hunters sitting on the ground trying to act like a deer, dressed in full camo.

And it may have happened, but I've never heard of a deer hunter being shot in the face by another deer hunter at 26 yards because the other guy thought he was a deer.

Hal


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## Randy

I think I have done this once before but I guess you did not read it so I will try again...

As defined by The Random House Dictionary:

Ethics: a system of moral principles.

System: a group or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unified whole.

Moral(S)f or concern with principles of right or wrong conduct.

Principles:a general or fundamental rule or truth on which others are based.

Rule: the customary or normal condition, practice.

Customary/customf or established by social habits.

So now we put it all together and get:

Ethics: a group or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unified whole of principles of right or wrong  conduct based on fundamental established social habits or customs or practices on which others are based.

You will note that these "ethtics" are based on "SOCIAL CUSTOMS" not individual beliefs.  Ethics may vary by region but not by individual.

A simple example is Murder.  It is ethically wrong in this part of the world but is an established social custom in other parts of the world.

Got to go that is my lesson for the day.


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## dutchman

Randy said:


> Got to go that is my lesson for the day.



And we all hope you've learned it well.


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## 243Savage

Spotlite said:


> Where then is it written, a set of ethics to follow?



Good question.  I guess I'll wait until that mysterious entity of higher authority appears to me in a vision and explains what my ethics should be to follow.  From then on, I'll march along like a drone since it's obvious I have no mind of my own, nor the freedom to make personal choices.


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## dutchman

243Savage said:


> Good question.  I guess I'll wait until that mysterious entity of higher authority appears to me in a vision and explains what my ethics should be to follow.



You have to eat peyote to get them visions like that. Or so I've heard.


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## 243Savage

dutchman said:


> You have to eat peyote to get them visions like that. Or so I've heard.



Comsuming halucinogenic cacti is against my personal ethics, besides, I heard they have sharp stickers.   

However....I do have a bottle of Crown easily within reach.


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## fulldraw74

hawglips said:


> But not too many hunters sitting on the ground trying to act like a deer, dressed in full camo.
> 
> And it may have happened, but I've never heard of a deer hunter being shot in the face by another deer hunter at 26 yards because the other guy thought he was a deer.
> 
> Hal




I have heard of them being shot while in a treestand.....


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## fulldraw74

dutchman said:


> You have to eat peyote to get them visions like that. Or so I've heard.



No you dont.....all you have to do is scope your muzzleloader and sit over a corn pile.....


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## DixieDeerSlayer

hawglips said:


> If a guy wants to shoot at the "turkey" with a shotgun, he's got to get pretty close to do it, thereby increasing the odds that he'll see the "turkey" is actually a person and hold his fire.  If he's toting a rifle, he's toting it so he can shoot the "turkey" from further away.  Further away, increases the chances that the target will not be properly identified, or what's behind the target will not be seen.
> 
> As long as killers are allowed to masquerade as hunters, their ain't no room for rifles in turkey hunting.
> 
> Hal



If we are talking about odds here than I would like to throw one out there for what it's worth.

Rifle - 1 projectile
Shotgun - 115 to 200 projectiles depending on shot size

There goes the odds.  

Also, you must not have read my first post. My " murderous act " occured during fall turkey season. While I was sitting in a treestand. I hunt with my shotgun during spring season " the old ethical way ".

Speaking of ethical, this " way " I speak of is by putting out decoys and hiding in the bushes while making hen calls to entice a gobbler within " ethical " range where I may ambush him as he tries to fulfill his natural urges to reproduce. 

I wouldn't dare try to actually scout out Mr. Tom and find out where he is roosting ( except maybe the night before ) and pattern his daily movements and get to really understand him and why he does what he does, so that I may intercept him like I would a deer.

Nah, I'll just call him up to a location that is convenient to me and whack him with my trusty Super High Performance Camo Turkey Shotgun that will shoot a 10" group at 50 yards, with fiber optic sights and a pistol grip. Now.... that's way better than a rifle.

That being said, I am not real keen on the idea of rifles in SPRING turkey season. But I dang sure ain't against it. I ain't giving the anti's one inch.

You guys will have to excuse me I don't know any better I'm from ................ FL


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## hawglips

fulldraw74 said:


> I have heard of them being shot while in a treestand.....



As have I, but none were shot by a hunter who snuck up to within 26 yards, and shot the guy out of the tree because he thought the guy up there was a deer.

The point is, there are just TOO MANY things about turkey hunting that make rifle hunting dangerous.   Deer hunting, squirrel hunting, etc -- none of them have a comparable mixture of factors that make it so dangerous to hunt with a rifle.  

Hal


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## fulldraw74

hawglips said:


> As have I, but none were shot by a hunter who snuck up to within 26 yards, and shot the guy out of the tree because he thought the guy up there was a deer.
> 
> The point is, there are just TOO MANY things about turkey hunting that make rifle hunting dangerous.   Deer hunting, squirrel hunting, etc -- none of them have a comparable mixture of factors that make it so dangerous to hunt with a rifle.
> 
> Hal



Point taken....Mine being that no matter what kind of hunting we are doing we all can be responsible for OUR actions only. We all assume (or hope) that every other person in the woods will be responsible and safe as we are being. Thats not always the case though. I can not honestly justify (to myself anyways) that rifle hunting for turkey would be anymore dangerous that deer hunting with a rifle.....


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## Gadget

I can't believe that conservation has not been mentioned as a factor why rifle hunting turkey is not allowed in 46 states


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## hawglips

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> If we are talking about odds here than I would like to throw one out there for what it's worth.
> 
> Rifle - 1 projectile
> Shotgun - 115 to 200 projectiles depending on shot size
> 
> There goes the odds.



Let's see here, I'm 150 yards across the field set up against a tree, in my very nice camo, with a jake turkey decoy out in front of me, and a live hen who just joined me, thanks to my very sweet calling.  

You're on the other side of the field with your 200 projectile launching shotgun, while your buddy is toting his high powered deer rifle that shoots one projectile, at a time.

You both want a turkey to eat, really bad, and you and your buddy are killers, masquerading as hunters.  

What are the odds you're going to be dumb enough that you think you can kill a turkey with your shotgun from way over there?  (Not very good obviously.)

But what are the odds your buddy will think he can kill a turkey with his high powered rifle from 150 yards?   And what are the odds he'll be tempted to try?  And if he misses the first time, what are the odds he'll shoot again -- and again?

And if you buck the long odds, because you're really dumb and don't understand the range of your shotgun, and you both shoot, there is an absolute zero chance that I'll be killed or maimed by your 200 projectiles, while there is a chance I'll get killed or maimed by his single, solitary one projectile, that will probably get missiled into my set up more than once.

There was a guy hunting in VA a couple years ago as he was set up with his decoys, who was killed just like that, by a high powered rifle toting "hunter."   Last I heard they never found the "hunter" who shot him. 

I've got an uncle who "hunts" turkeys up there with his rifle, as do his buddies.  They drive around looking for turkeys out in the field, then see if they can plink them.   The further away the better.  It ain't "sporting" to call them in close, he says.  They also don't care if its a hen or a tom -- the point is to see how far away you can kill one.

Because of the way most people hunt them, there ain't no place in turkey hunting for rifles -- antis or no antis.

Hal


----------



## GeauxLSU

fulldraw74 said:


> I can not honestly justify (to myself anyways) that rifle hunting for turkey would be anymore dangerous that deer hunting with a rifle.....


Nor can multiple states.


----------



## hawglips

fulldraw74 said:


> I can not honestly justify (to myself anyways) that rifle hunting for turkey would be anymore dangerous that deer hunting with a rifle.....



Head to foot camo, vs. blaze orange.
Sitting on the ground, vs. sitting up in a tree.
Shooting from the ground, vs. shooting from up in a tree.
Frequently emitting sounds of the quarry from the ground, vs. only once in a blue moon making the sounds of the quarry from up in a tree.

 

Hal


----------



## Sugar Hill Scouter

I haven't visited this thread in about a month since my last post, but man, oh, man, did a BIG 'ole can get opened up or what????


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

Nobody hunts deer on the ground do they ??....


----------



## GeauxLSU

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> Nobody hunts deer on the ground do they ??....


No and they don't use ground blinds so you can't see the orange and they don't use deer decoys either.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

fulldraw74 said:


> Point taken....Mine being that no matter what kind of hunting we are doing we all can be responsible for OUR actions only. We all assume (or hope) that every other person in the woods will be responsible and safe as we are being. Thats not always the case though. I can not honestly justify (to myself anyways) that rifle hunting for turkey would be anymore dangerous that deer hunting with a rifle.....



My thoughts exactly.... why alienate a group of hunters because we don't agree with their legal methods??

" A house divided against itself can not stand. "

Abe Lincoln   June 16, 1858.


----------



## fulldraw74

hawglips said:


> Head to foot camo, vs. blaze orange.
> Sitting on the ground, vs. sitting up in a tree.
> Shooting from the ground, vs. shooting from up in a tree.
> Frequently emitting sounds of the quarry from the ground, vs. only once in a blue moon making the sounds of the quarry from up in a tree.
> 
> 
> 
> Hal




I know numerous deer hunters who hunt from the ground, use grunt calls, rattling horns, decoys, etc......even some who dont wear orange(i know they are asking for trouble) There are "risks and dangers" associated with any type of hunting. Orange vests dont always stop a bullet. My fathers childhood friend was killed while deer hunting and he was wearing an orange vest. The guy who shot him said he thought he saw a deer and shot at it. 
You hear of more people falling out of treestands and getting hurt each year than you do getting shot. Why not "outlaw" stand hunting?

Just to clarify things....I enjoy calling the turkey in close and would continue to do so and hunt with a shotgun or bow because thats my preference. Although i have now problem with someone wanting to hunt with a rifle....


----------



## Spotlite

Randy said:


> As defined by The Random House Dictionary:
> 
> Ethics: a system of moral principles.
> 
> System: a group or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unified whole.
> 
> Moral(S)f or concern with principles of right or wrong conduct.
> 
> Principles:a general or fundamental rule or truth on which others are based.
> 
> Rule: the customary or normal condition, practice.
> 
> Customary/customf or established by social habits.
> 
> So now we put it all together and get:
> 
> Ethics: a group or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unified whole of principles of right or wrong  conduct based on fundamental established social habits or customs or practices on which others are based.
> 
> You will note that these "ethtics" are based on "SOCIAL CUSTOMS" not individual beliefs.  Ethics may vary by region but not by individual.
> 
> A simple example is Murder.  It is ethically wrong in this part of the world but is an established social custom in other parts of the world.
> 
> Got to go that is my lesson for the day.



Your forgetting one thing, the State does not have an "ethics" board to regulate hunters. It has DNR. A set of rules have been determined to follow and to follow those rules, you are considered ethical, by following what has been established as acceptable. Anything you do above and beyond that, is an "individual" choice.

Murder, is illegal in this part of the country, eithics has nothing to do with it and probably the last thing on the lawyers mind.


----------



## hawglips

fulldraw74 said:


> There are "risks and dangers" associated with any type of hunting.



That doesn't mean we should not recognize that some risks and dangers are riskier and more dangerous than others.

Hal


----------



## hawglips

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> " A house divided against itself can not stand. "
> 
> Abe Lincoln   June 16, 1858.



Where's the moderator??

Is it permitted to quote dis-Honest Abe on a Georgia forum after what he had Sherman do to the good people of the state?

Hal


----------



## fulldraw74

hawglips said:


> That doesn't mean we should not recognize that some risks and dangers are riskier and more dangerous than others.
> 
> Hal



I agree.....Anytime you have multiple "people" in the woods with guns there are dangers despite the type of hunting your doing. I think orange should be worn no matter what type of hunting your doing. It will help but not prevent shootings.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

hawglips said:


> Where's the moderator??
> 
> Is it permitted to quote dis-Honest Abe on a Georgia forum after what he had Sherman do to the good people of the state?
> 
> Hal



I have heard it said that Sherman thought the Georgians were turkeys and shot at them across the battlefield with a rifle.


----------



## fulldraw74

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> I have heard it said that Sherman thought the Georgians were turkeys and shot at them across the battlefield with a rifle.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

If there had only been shotguns in those days........


----------



## hawglips

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> If there had only been shotguns in those days........



Hey, lots of the good ole boys used shotguns.  Jeff Davis didn't have much money to buy them fancy Yankee repeating rifles for his turkeys, I mean, soldiers.  Good thing they were real scary sounding when they ran across the field and them Yankees spooked real easy.

About the only way they could get one was to borrow one off'n a dead Yankee.

Hal


----------



## Rockin Randall

I guess I must be in the minority. I thought hunting was supposed to be a challenging enjoyable experience.
too many people have turned the sport into a competition (look how many I killed, I'm the great Bowwanna, look at me! Look at me!!!.)
If it's just the meat your after, go to the grocery store and save yourselves a couple of grand a year.

Bring it on!


----------



## dutchman

Rockin Randall said:


> Bring it on!



Bring what on?


----------



## hawglips

Rockin Randall said:


> I guess I must be in the minority. I thought hunting was supposed to be a challenging enjoyable experience.



 




Rockin Randall said:


> too many people have turned the sport into a competition (look how many I killed, I'm the great Bowwanna, look at me! Look at me!!!.)
> If it's just the meat your after, go to the grocery store and save yourselves a couple of grand a year.
> 
> Bring it on!



Actually, RR, I'm with you!!


----------



## Rockin Randall

Thanks Hawglips, you brought up a lot of good points.


----------



## alphachief

savage270 said:


> Have anyone hunted turkey with a rifle?
> 
> If so, what caliber will kill effectively with minimal damage and what shot placement?
> 
> thanks,



Until I was about 13 years old, all I carried into the woods in S. Florida was a 22 Mag.  Killed hogs, deer, and...yes turkey.


----------



## Gadget

alphachief said:


> Until I was about 13 years old, all I carried into the woods in S. Florida was a 22 Mag.  Killed hogs, deer, and...yes turkey.




Yeah those were the good ole days, when all the hunters would run down deer with airboats. They can't run fast in water, i'd only be a short chase before you run em over and break thier neck. 

Yep........ Snap em and Stack em, those were the ole days. I'd only take an hour to fill up the boat.


----------



## fulldraw74

Woodswalker said:


> i don't get the chance to hunt the WMA's like i did in the past, but i have always thought it would add to the fun and value of the adventure if we could have potentially bagged a turkey while small game hunting.  A .22 rimfire of some configuration would be ideal along with possibly shotguns.
> 
> i know i must be in the minority but i have thought that in the preserving of Traditions, that being able to bag a Turkey before Thanksgiving has some value.  Not economic value of course, there's no way to compete with Kroger and the Publix, but still having a chance at a hunted bird to grace the table would give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
> 
> Yes, i'm looking for more reasons to spend time in the woods, and if mixed bags were more available, it'd create additional incentive to enjoy God's creation.





Well said.......


----------



## fulldraw74

Rockin Randall said:


> I guess I must be in the minority. I thought hunting was supposed to be a challenging enjoyable experience.
> too many people have turned the sport into a competition (look how many I killed, I'm the great Bowwanna, look at me! Look at me!!!.)
> If it's just the meat your after, go to the grocery store and save yourselves a couple of grand a year.
> 
> Bring it on!




One could say if its the challenge your after play football or run a race.....

I think for most its the challenge as well as putting food on the table. I spend nowhere near a grad a year and get more than my $ worth in food for my family. I agree that for some it is about who kills the most and not about the enjoyment. Hunting a turkey with a rifle would still be as challenging as hunting a deer with one.


----------



## Gadget

Go ahead and contact your senator, form the committees, create the drafts and petition the DNR.


Hunt em spring, summer, fall and winter, All weapons, all methods.


I'll hunt em till they go extinct, heck in another 20 years there won't be much hunting period so what does it matter anyways


----------



## Rockin Randall

Amen Gadget. If some of these folks had their way, in just a few yrs seeing a deer or turkey would be bout as rare as seeing the winning #"s on your lotto ticket.


----------



## fulldraw74

Rockin Randall said:


> Right on Randy; the same ol folks that want to make it legal to kill game over a pile of korn are the same ones that want to shoot them with rifles etc.



And its the same "holier than though" people that try to shove their way of thinking and ethics down someones throat. If its legal and someone chooses to hunt that way....great. If they dont...thats great also.


----------



## alphachief

Gadget said:


> Yeah those were the good ole days, when all the hunters would run down deer with airboats. They can't run fast in water, i'd only be a short chase before you run em over and break thier neck.
> 
> Yep........ Snap em and Stack em, those were the ole days. I'd only take an hour to fill up the boat.



Gadget, I don't know who the heck you hunted with in Florida, but I grew up wading out to pine islands in waist deep water...always trying not to step in a big ole gator hole.  Never hunted out of an airboat.  We did go big time when I was about 12, when we made a swamp buggy out of my uncles ole jeep.  All that did was keep our pants a little dryer.  Some of the best hunters I ever met were crackers from S. Florida.  Didn't wear camo, didn't shoot fancy rifles, didn't even carry a compass... and they could fill warehouses full of the game they took.

Bottom line, don't lump me in with that airboat white trash crowd.  I'm an old school cracker through and through.


Just for a point of reference, I went on my first hunt in the fall of 1964.  My Dad and Uncle carried me in and out of the swamps around Immokalee, FL on their shoulders.  Thats old school brother.


----------



## Rockin Randall

Cill this tread please, it's starting to get ugly.


----------



## Sugar Hill Scouter

Rockin Randall said:


> Cill this tread please, it's starting to get ugly.



.."starting to.." ?? I'm afraid it's been like that for a while now...


----------



## Gadget

alphachief said:


> Gadget, I don't know who the heck you hunted with in Florida, but I grew up wading out to pine islands in waist deep water...always trying not to step in a big ole gator hole.  Never hunted out of an airboat.  We did go big time when I was about 12, when we made a swamp buggy out of my uncles ole jeep.  All that did was keep our pants a little dryer.  Some of the best hunters I ever met were crackers from S. Florida.  Didn't wear camo, didn't shoot fancy rifles, didn't even carry a compass... and they could fill warehouses full of the game they took.
> 
> Bottom line, don't lump me in with that airboat white trash crowd.  I'm an old school cracker through and through
> 
> 
> Just for a point of reference, I went on my first hunt in the fall of 1964.  My Dad and Uncle carried me in and out of the swamps around Immokalee, FL on their shoulders.  Thats old school brother.




Sorry Chief I wasn't directing that towards you at all. 

I was born and raised in South Florida, I lived in the everglades. I know a little something about what went on down there, and what still goes on today. Used to be a wild place!


----------



## dutchman

Rockin Randall said:


> Cill this tread please, it's starting to get ugly.



   

Right, Mr. bring it on.


----------



## fulldraw74

dutchman said:


> Right, Mr. bring it on.


----------



## alphachief

Gadget said:


> Sorry Chief I wasn't directing that towards you at all.
> 
> I was born and raised in South Florida, I lived in the everglades. I know a little something about what went on down there, and what still goes on today. Used to be a wild place!



Not a big deal Gadget.  I guess I probably should of added that I've Spring Gobbler hunted now for almost 20 years and I would never dream of shooting one now with a rifle...although I still have fond memories of popping them with that 22 Mag. as a kid.  Nothing like wading out after a long hunt...one hunter with a hog, another with a deer...and another with an Osceola slung over his shoulder.


----------



## Rockin Randall

That's funny rite there Dutch, I don't care who u r.
C Yall 2morrow I'm outta here


----------



## dutchman

Rockin Randall said:


> That's funny rite there Dutch, I don't care who u r.
> C Yall 2morrow I'm outta here



Well...bye for now.


----------



## Just BB

Interesting stats. Was looking around for accident stats but couldn't find georgia. I did run across Pennsylvania. You guys stop going at each other long enough to view this link and you should get a chill. We can all argue about ethics, safety, traditions or what ever else we bring up. The bottom line is hunting can be dangerous , even fatal to us all. No matter how you were brought up or what you believe. You can try to tell me this or that but you can't tell me that you honestly want to kill or be killed. Some facts that I found interesting were that even though shotguns played a big roll in a number of accidents during turkey season, none were fatal. There was one that looks like it was a 12 gauge using #2 shot. Looks like that was waterfowl. Rifles did result in more fatalities. Also interesting was that  another web page I found states that Turkey hunting is the most dangerous but Deer hunting is the most deadly. These stats make me still believe that right or wrong, Georgia has a no rifle law for turkeys due to a safety issue and not ethical or traditional. But read these stats and others and instead of arguing points with each other, stop and think that somewhere, somehow, someone, maybe you or a friend, will be injured, maybe fataly, by a person while in the woods. Isn't it worth all our efforts to make our sport as safe as we can?

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=461&q=168059


----------



## 243Savage

Just BB said:


> Interesting stats. Was looking around for accident stats but couldn't find georgia. I did run across Pennsylvania. You guys stop going at each other long enough to view this link and you should get a chill. We can all argue about ethics, safety, traditions or what ever else we bring up. The bottom line is hunting can be dangerous , even fatal to us all. No matter how you were brought up or what you believe. You can try to tell me this or that but you can't tell me that you honestly want to kill or be killed. Some facts that I found interesting were that even though shotguns played a big roll in a number of accidents during turkey season, none were fatal. There was one that looks like it was a 12 gauge using #2 shot. Looks like that was waterfowl. Rifles did result in more fatalities. Also interesting was that  another web page I found states that Turkey hunting is the most dangerous but Deer hunting is the most deadly. These stats make me still believe that right or wrong, Georgia has a no rifle law for turkeys due to a safety issue and not ethical or traditional. But read these stats and others and instead of arguing points with each other, stop and think that somewhere, somehow, someone, maybe you or a friend, will be injured, maybe fataly, by a person while in the woods. Isn't it worth all our efforts to make our sport as safe as we can?
> 
> http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=461&q=168059





Dems Yankees!  What do you expect?....of course the numbers are going to be high.   
















Seriously...that's some interesting information.


----------



## fulldraw74

Interesting stats......especially the distances at which it happened.


----------



## Just BB

Makes you want to go get one of them awful full blaze orange jumpsuit don't it.


----------



## 243Savage

The one category that has absolutely no excuse is the "self inflicted".  That to me says "careless".  Some folks just have no business handling a firearm.  I just don't understand it.  The direction of that muzzle and the proper handling of the firearm is always first and foremost in my mind.


----------



## fulldraw74

Just BB said:


> Makes you want to go get one of them awful full blaze orange jumpsuit don't it.



dont forget the cowbell to tie around your neck.


----------



## Just BB

fulldraw74 said:


> dont forget the cowbell to tie around your neck.



NO WAY! Didn't you notice that under species there was 2 listed as udders


----------



## jcarter

would you explain to me how one could be more dangerous and the other more deadly? is there anything more dangerous than doing something that is gonna make you dead?


----------



## GeauxLSU

Though it is a bunch of numbers, it most certainly does NOT predict that turkey hunting with rifles is more dangerous than anything else.  If that were the case, from those numbers, it would also predict that hunting in broad daylight and standing up (you know, like a human) is more dangerous than hunting from a sitting position in low light.      I mean, that IS what the numbers 'say' and that withOUT making assumptions about things that don't exist in the base data.  
I searched but can't find it.  A DNR employee onced waxed on poetically here why we don't have a fall/rifle season.  If memory serves, and in this case I'm positive it does, he had multiple PERSONAL objections but safety was not one of them.  
Perhaps we should outlaw coyote hunting with rifles?


----------



## fulldraw74

GeauxLSU said:


> Though it is a bunch of numbers, it most certainly does NOT predict that turkey hunting with rifles is more dangerous than anything else.  If that were the case, from those numbers, it would also predict that hunting in broad daylight and standing up (you know, like a human) is more dangerous than hunting from a sitting position in low light.      I mean, that IS what the numbers 'say' and that withOUT making assumptions about things that don't exist in the base data.
> I searched but can't find it.  A DNR employee onced waxed on poetically here why we don't have a fall/rifle season.  If memory serves, and in this case I'm positive it does, he had multiple PERSONAL objections but safety was not one of them.
> Perhaps we should outlaw coyote hunting with rifles?




How about a safety belt while setting on the ground....


----------



## Just BB

jcarter said:


> would you explain to me how one could be more dangerous and the other more deadly? is there anything more dangerous than doing something that is gonna make you dead?



I can let you read the article that I took the statement from. I guess there's more chance of being shot turkey hunting which would make it dangerous but more deaths result from deer hunting making it more deadly. I suppose it's like Lite beer and full flavored beer, both make you go to the rest room alot but one makes you miss and hit your shoes more!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050310175451.htm


----------



## 243Savage

fulldraw74 said:


> How about a safety belt while setting on the ground....



What if the tree you're leaning up against falls over and you're strapped to it?  That would be my luck....and probably suffer one of those self inflicted gunshot wounds in the process trying to get unbuckled.


----------



## Sugar Hill Scouter

Man, this thread is like the Energizer bunny....It keeps going and going............


----------



## Just BB

Hey wait a minute....what ever happened to Savage270...just like him to start something and then hightail it out a here....


----------



## fulldraw74

243Savage said:


> What if the tree you're leaning up against falls over and you're strapped to it?  That would be my luck....and probably suffer one of those self inflicted gunshot wounds in the process trying to get unbuckled.



you got a point.....sounds like safety belts can be dangerous. I'm going to put on shoulder pads and my old football helment next time i go hunting.....


----------



## 243Savage

Sugar Hill Scouter said:


> Man, this thread is like the Energizer bunny....It keeps going and going............



I think I might take a crack at him from across the field.  I'll wait until he gets to about 150 yards and leave my scope magnification at 4x to make it sporting.


----------



## fulldraw74

243Savage said:


> I think I might take a crack at him from across the field.  I'll wait until he gets to about 150 yards and leave my scope magnification at 4x to make it sporting.



no wait.....let me put out the corn and decoy first


----------



## fulldraw74

Woodswalker said:


> this is a great discussion.
> 
> sounds like Pa. hunters were being forced to hunt under conditions of too great a density to be perfectly safe, as the gist of the article suggests.
> 
> at the same time, all blaze orange should help hunters better identify each other in heavy foliage. To be hidden behind camo is just "asking" for it in an unlucky scenario of events that might unfold.
> 
> my humble conclusion is that we need greater hunting acreage and space to accomodate all the hunters interested in participating in the sport.





thats the best solution i have heard.....


----------



## Derek Edge

Don't know if it's been mentioned, I didn't feel like reading through all the garbage.  Personally, I think it is very dangerous to be using a rifle cartridge of any kind, since most turkey hunters are at ground level when shooting.  Especially on a WMA.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

Derek Edge said:


> Don't know if it's been mentioned, I didn't feel like reading through all the garbage.  Personally, I think it is very dangerous to be using a rifle cartridge of any kind, since most turkey hunters are at ground level when shooting.  Especially on a WMA.



Yea somebody may have mentioned that somewhere in all the garbage......


----------



## Just BB

Derek Edge said:


> Don't know if it's been mentioned, I didn't feel like reading through all the garbage.  Personally, I think it is very dangerous to be using a rifle cartridge of any kind, since most turkey hunters are at ground level when shooting.  Especially on a WMA.



Yup, shoulda gone through the garbage..about 100 times already. But please feel free to jump right in and start arguing with people.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

beat ya


----------



## Just BB

DixieDeerSlayer said:


> beat ya



Yes but technically you didn't say an amount or invite him to argue so really I'm right and you're wrong.


----------



## 243Savage

Just BB said:


> Yes but technically you didn't say an amount or invite him to argue so really I'm right and you're wrong.



That ain't your call.    

Dutchman is the offical right-or-wrong referee in this thread for today....I think.  

He'll be bringing it on real soon.


----------



## Derek Edge

Just BB said:


> Yup, shoulda gone through the garbage..about 100 times already. But please feel free to jump right in and start arguing with people.



Yeah, whatever....wasn't arguing though, just stating my opinion, but thanks anyway.


----------



## DixieDeerSlayer

Just BB said:


> Yes but technically you didn't say an amount or invite him to argue so really I'm right and you're wrong.



Dang technicalities ....... get me every time.

Oh well..... I'll keep trying.


----------



## dutchman

243Savage said:


> That ain't your call.
> 
> Dutchman is the offical right-or-wrong referee in this thread for today....I think.
> 
> He'll be bringing it on real soon.



No right or wrongs on that deal. No flag, no penalty.

I got no dog in the rifle fight. I prefer a shotgun and I hope it stays that way in GA. But, I got no beef with folks using 'em in other states where they're legal.

As for Mr. "bring it on," he's gone for the day, I think.


----------



## hawglips

Forget them Yankee fellers up in PA.

Here's what's happening south of the border:

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060214/LOCAL/60214005/1078/news

Hal


----------



## Just BB

balvarik said:


> Heres the total for 2004 in Minnesota of all the hunting related firearm accidental shootings.
> 
> http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/safetyednews/spring05/2004_incidents.pdf
> 
> Heres some from North Carolina and it's "Reb" hunting stat's.
> http://216.27.49.98/fs_index_04_hunting.htm



Blame it on the dog! Now I've heard everything.


----------



## Just BB

Derek Edge said:


> Yeah, whatever....wasn't arguing though, just stating my opinion, but thanks anyway.



Geez, Just Kidding there Derek! Let's toast one together Didn't mean any disrespect.


----------



## hawglips

balvarik said:


> Heres some from North Carolina and it's "Reb" hunting stat's.
> http://216.27.49.98/fs_index_04_hunting.htm



There were 4 turkey hunting accidents, and we don't have any more information.

What we need to know is, how many shootings were there due to mistaking the person for a turkey, or not seeing the person that was shot.  

And we need this information from a state that allows rifle hunting for turkeys.

Hal


----------



## Slingblade

My answer the original question posted is "No, I've never hunted them with a rifle; but I killed one with my .270 in TEXAS while deer hunting.  I had just gotten in my ground blind set-up at around 3:30 PM and he popped out between two salt cedars and I hit him high at the wing roots and went out and fetched him up and then got a doe later that evening.


----------



## hawglips

Mike,

Cheney hunts in TX, duh!!!

Hal


----------



## marathon

Well since muzzleloaders are acceptable for hunting turkeys, then why is there a problem with a rifle? Most folks I know that have a "deer rifle" usually have a scope on it to help with long distance shots therefor "theoretically" giving them better visibility of targets at a greater distance. Why all the fuss of say a 22 that would be mandated to have a scope on it as well? After all, as stated before, the object of "hunting" is to harvest game in a humane, efficient manner. Personally I know that I could take a turkey at say 75 yards with a 22 whereas I know I couldn't take that same bird with a shotgun at that distance. (And NO I have not done so or attempted to do so) I just know my capabilities with the weapons I use and I make sure of my target and what's beyond it.


----------



## hawglips

marathon said:


> ... I just know my capabilities with the weapons I use and I make sure of my target and what's beyond it.



You sound like a hunter.  But all "hunters" are not so careful.  Therein lies the inherent danger in mixing turkey hunting and rifles.

Hal


----------



## GeauxLSU

*Should we outlaw dove and quail hunting?*



balvarik said:


> Hal,
> I went to Texas F&G and looked up their stat's.
> No turkey hunting accidents during 2004 season at all.
> But dove and quail hunting is tough on hunters though!


Well that just can't be right.


----------



## hawglips

GeauxLSU said:


> Well that just can't be right.



Has the question shifted from the safety (or lack thereof) of hunting turkeys with a rifle as compared to hunting with shotgun; to whether other types of hunting (i.e., dove, quail, deer, etc) result in more accidents than turkey hunting?

Hal


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## GeauxLSU

hawglips said:


> Has the question shifted from the safety (or lack thereof) of hunting turkeys with a rifle as compared to hunting with shotgun; to whether other types of hunting (i.e., dove, quail, deer, etc) result in more accidents than turkey hunting?
> 
> Hal


No.  You are allowed to rifle hunt turkeys in Texas in the fall (not sure about spring).  That's the point.  Apparently no accidents in Texas yet some make it sound like it's a given that accidents will occur.  Apparently Texas hunters are just smarter than we are?  
Not to mention, it's already legal to hunt them here with a ML rifle.  Safety is not the reason it's illegal in Georgia.  
It's illegal for the same reason fall hunting is illegal.  
The typical turkey hunter in Georgia doesn't want anything to change since his current method is the ONLY acceptable method in his mind.  Even if he chooses not to participate in either rifle hunting or fall hunting, he still does not want it made legal for those that would participate.  
Anybody want to bet that if it currently was NOT legal to hunt turkeys with a ML rifle in Georgia what chances of it being made legal would be?  (If left up to current turkey hunters that is.)


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## Sugar Hill Scouter

Sugar Hill Scouter said:


> Man, this thread is like the Energizer bunny....It keeps going and going............



.....and going.....and going.....


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## hawglips

GeauxLSU said:


> Safety is not the reason it's illegal in Georgia.



But it is the reason I'm against it.

Hal


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## GeauxLSU

hawglips said:


> But it is the reason I'm against it.
> 
> Hal


OK, but based on what?  It's apparently the safest hunting you can do in Texas.  
Are you against ML's being legal for turkeys here?  
How about rifles hunting for hogs/coyotes etc... without hunter's orange?  
If hunter's orange were required for rifle hunting turkeys in Georgia would you be in favor of it then?  If not, are you also opposed to deer hunting in Georgia with rifles?  
I'm just trying to figure out why people have contradictory stances on turkeys compared to other animals.   I suspect I know what it is, but being a rank novice, I don't want to presume.


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## Rockin Randall

I can't stand it. The difference is when a turkey is gobbling, there may be other hunters trying to get close enough to call him in and you r probably not going to see another hunter 50 yds on the other side of the turky. Do you want to be one of the other hunters with a high powered rifle aimed in your direction. If it's a shotgun aiming at you, you are not going to be killed and most likely not going to be injured.


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## GeauxLSU

Rockin Randall said:


> I can't stand it. The difference is when a turkey is gobbling, there may be other hunters trying to get close enough to call him in and you r probably not going to see another hunter 50 yds on the other side of the turky. Do you want to be one of the other hunters with a high powered rifle aimed in your direction. If it's a shotgun aiming at you, you are not going to be killed and most likely not going to be injured.


But everybody else is saying it's a LONG distance issue.  
If it's the whole vocalization thing then, do you think elk hunting with rifles is a bad idea?  
And do you think ML hunting for turkeys is a bad idea here?  

By the way, is it legal to hunt turkeys in Texas in the spring time with a rifle?


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## 60Grit

Man oh man what a hot topic. 

What I read here is that you are safe in the woods with morons hunting deer, squirrels, hogs etc with rifles but not turkeys? 

Don't get me wrong, I am strictlly a shot gun hunter for any kind of bird, especially turkey's. Personally, I have enough to worry about making sure that I am not snuggling up to a copperhead or rattlesnake when I get in my blind. The last thing I need is to have to watch out for frienly fire too!

This goes for deer hunting or any other hunting, if some pinhead takes an errant shot in my direction, as happened a few years ago hog hunting, which is another story, he had better kill me or disable me right there. One thing I have very little patience for, in town or in the woods, are complete idiots, and I will be coming after someone who shoots at me to have a very personal chat.


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## hawglips

GeauxLSU said:


> OK, but based on what?  It's apparently the safest hunting you can do in Texas.
> Are you against ML's being legal for turkeys here?
> How about rifles hunting for hogs/coyotes etc... without hunter's orange?



Of the hog hunters and coyote hunters who get shot by other hunters, how many of them do you suppose get shot because they thought the guy they shot was a hog or a coyote?

How many hog or coyote hunters use hog and coyote decoys, and sit down behind them in full camo with the intent of not being seen?



GeauxLSU said:


> If hunter's orange were required for rifle hunting turkeys in Georgia would you be in favor of it then?



It would possibly improve the chances that a turkey hunter won't get shot by another (though in PA I know there have been accidents where a hunter thought the orange was the red head of a gobbler), but I'd still be against mixing turkey hunting and rifles for the reasons I've already given.



GeauxLSU said:


> If not, are you also opposed to deer hunting in Georgia with rifles?



There are laws in place in some states to make hunting deer with rifles safer.  Those laws include things like blaze orange, and only being allowed to shoot a center fire rifle cartridge from a raised stand in certain localities, etc.  Visibility, projectile range, and trajectory are key considerations.



GeauxLSU said:


> I'm just trying to figure out why people have contradictory stances on turkeys compared to other animals.   I suspect I know what it is, but being a rank novice, I don't want to presume.



Nothing contradictory whatsoever about my reasons for opposing it.  Turkey hunting is unique in several ways.

Hal


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## GeauxLSU

hawglips said:


> Of the hog hunters and coyote hunters who get shot by other hunters, how many of them do you suppose get shot because they thought the guy they shot was a hog or a coyote?
> 
> How many hog or coyote hunters use hog and coyote decoys, and sit down behind them in full camo with the intent of not being seen?
> 
> 
> 
> It would possibly improve the chances that a turkey hunter won't get shot by another (though in PA I know there have been accidents where a hunter thought the orange was the red head of a gobbler), but I'd still be against mixing turkey hunting and rifles for the reasons I've already given.
> 
> 
> 
> There are laws in place in some states to make hunting deer with rifles safer.  Those laws include things like blaze orange, and only being allowed to shoot a center fire rifle cartridge from a raised stand in certain localities, etc.  Visibility, projectile range, and trajectory are key considerations.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contradictory whatsoever about my reasons for opposing it.  Turkey hunting is unique in several ways.
> 
> Hal


You didn't address elk hunters, elevated stands are not required here and I'd say the ground hunters in Georgia are FAST approaching the elevated hunters, you can and people do use coyote decoys.  I assume most people who get shot hog/coyote hunting are mistaken for game (though I hate even typing that since it's so ludicrous).  

The only reason you've given, unless I missed it, is safety related.  I'm just pointing out it is very selective and subjective given the other type of activities currently legal here, and elsewhere, and the fact there were apparently zero injuries in Texas where it is legal.  

If you just think it's playing with fire to make it legal, fine, but nothing supports that supposition.  Believe me, I understand why you suppose that (it is logical), but the facts and current regulations don't support it.  

People get shot wearing blaze orange every year.  You can NOT legislate common sense.  If your real objection is safety, then you should object to several legally current methods of hunting, perhaps including all firearms hunting.  

If your objective is a fear of overharvest, then that's a completely different conversation (obviously), but again, I doubt many people would partake anyway.  

For the record, sitting over a pasture sniping a turkey from 200 yards away doesn't sound like much fun to me at all.  But I don't intend to take it away from somebody else if it flips their switch and is not harmful to the resource.


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## hawglips

GeauxLSU said:


> You didn't address elk hunters, elevated stands are not required here and I'd say the ground hunters in Georgia are FAST approaching the elevated hunters, you can and people do use coyote decoys.  I assume most people who get shot hog/coyote hunting are mistaken for game (though I hate even typing that since it's so ludicrous).



Why do you keep bringing up dove, quail, deer, hog, coyote hunting etc?

None of those has the same mix of characteristics that turkey hunting does, as I keep pointing out.

You ignore the points and keep pulling out examples that aren't at all like turkey hunting, and do not address the points you've ignored. 



GeauxLSU said:


> The only reason you've given, unless I missed it, is safety related.  I'm just pointing out it is very selective and subjective given the other type of activities currently legal here, and elsewhere, and the fact there were apparently zero injuries in Texas where it is legal.



What do zero injuries in TX have to do with anything?

The only way you can address my points and show that it is not anymore dangerous to hunt turkeys with rifles than shotguns, is to show that those who were mistaken for turkeys by the "hunter" who shot at them are no better off whether the "hunter" is toting a rifle or a shotgun, or that those who shoot turkeys with rifles are more careful about what they're shooting at. 



GeauxLSU said:


> If you just think it's playing with fire to make it legal, fine, but nothing supports that supposition.  Believe me, I understand why you suppose that (it is logical), but the facts and current regulations don't support it.



What facts?  

The ones that show dove hunting has more accidents than any other hunting sport?   What does that have to do with anything regarding turkey hunting and rifles?

But let's go with that.

How safe would you feel if dove hunting was done with deer rifles?   Or quail hunting? 

Let's not throw common sense out the window here.  And let's not pretend "facts" that show dove hunting has more accidents, shows that turkey hunting with rifles is no more dangerous than turkey hunting with shotguns.



GeauxLSU said:


> People get shot wearing blaze orange every year.  You can NOT legislate common sense.  If your real objection is safety, then you should object to several legally current methods of hunting, perhaps including all firearms hunting.



You say this after just pointing out that my suppositions are logical.

And just because you can't legislate common sense doesn't mean you can't use it when making game laws.



GeauxLSU said:


> If your objective is a fear of overharvest, then that's a completely different conversation (obviously), but again, I doubt many people would partake anyway.



This is not my fear, but it is a legitimate concern of others. 

But since you bring it up, a recent situtation comes to mind.  Last spring they caught a guy in a small place I hunted before near Hogansville who admitted to killing at least four toms out of that place with his rifle before the season started.  Needless to say, the resource in that place was harmed.  

The rifle sure made it easy to sneak in and poach those birds out in the field over a couple of week period.

But that's another topic.



GeauxLSU said:


> For the record, sitting over a pasture sniping a turkey from 200 yards away doesn't sound like much fun to me at all.  But I don't intend to take it away from somebody else if it flips their switch and is not harmful to the resource.



Then don't do it.  Not only does it not sound like fun, it sounds quite dangerous.

But I will always do what I can to keep rifles out of turkey hunting where and when I can.

Hal


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## hawglips

Speaking of safety, check out this site.

The bad guys are keeping count, and using it against us.

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/accident-center.html


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## Gadget

I guess you finally did him in hawglips.....lol........  that's hard to do with Phil !


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