# Question for Christian Lurkers



## dexrusjak (Oct 14, 2010)

If someone very close to you (a son, daughter, parent, friend, etc.) who you believe to be a sold-out, blood bought, born again Christian tells you that he or she is actually an atheist, and has been (secretly) for years, how would you respond?  Would you treat this person any differently?  Have any of you ever had this experience?


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## RThomas (Oct 14, 2010)

They'd probably do the same thing my mother-in-law does- pray.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 14, 2010)

Hello Dex, Does your family know that you are atheist? I suspect that that person confessing his nonbelief  would be bombarded with scriptures as if that were the remedy for nonbelief. Eventually, that would cause avoidance between parties


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## stringmusic (Oct 14, 2010)

never had this happen. Im sure if it did there would be alot of conversation as to why they "faked" being a Christian, and also why the don't believe.


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## Tim L (Oct 14, 2010)

Similar expereince; one was a friend that admitted she didn't believe in God; years later she did a 360 and became a "jain" similar to hindu, more emphasis on not taking any animals life...We didn't treat her any different when she said she was athiest nor when she went jain....hard to be jain if your not indian but she does it..she is what she is..


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## emusmacker (Oct 14, 2010)

Would just pray for them but probably wouldn't be much difference, but then again it would be hard to to all cool about it, if two don't agree they can't walk together, that's scripture not me.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 14, 2010)

Never happened to me, but I would be more concerned as to why they had to hide their beliefs, then to the reason the held them.


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## gtparts (Oct 15, 2010)

I have a bil and his wife who are in a non-denominational, Universalist-style, cult. She was not "churched", yet exposed to Christianity as a young person and considers herself "spiritual". He was raised as a Baptist till he reached about 16-17 y.o., when he basically quit being anything of a religious nature.

Love them, pray for them, but they definitely march to the beat of a different drummer. They respect our right to our religious beliefs, while we continue to gently make an effort to provide for them a Christian context for comparison. They are very much "citizens of this world". I am pretty certain that only the work of the Holy Spirit can change their hearts. We won't cease to give witness to the truth. It sure does break my heart that they don't have the relationship with Jesus that is available to them.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 15, 2010)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Dex, Does your family know that you are atheist? I suspect that that person confessing his nonbelief  would be bombarded with scriptures as if that were the remedy for nonbelief. Eventually, that would cause avoidance between parties



Some do; some don't.  It's more of a don't ask don't tell kind of arrangement.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 15, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> never had this happen. Im sure if it did there would be alot of conversation as to why they "faked" being a Christian, and also why the don't believe.



Same reason many homosexuals remain in the closet - fear of coming out.  Fear of losing family members and friends; fear of rejection by those closest to them; fear of negative consequences at work, home, school, etc.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 15, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> Would just pray for them but probably wouldn't be much difference, but then again it would be hard to to all cool about it, if two don't agree they can't walk together, that's scripture not me.



Sad.


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## stringmusic (Oct 15, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Same reason many homosexuals remain in the closet - fear of coming out.  Fear of losing family members and friends; fear of rejection by those closest to them; fear of negative consequences at work, home, school, etc.



thats the wonderful thing about being a Christian, a TRUE relationship with Christ really sets a person free.


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## earl (Oct 15, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> thats the wonderful thing about being a Christian, a TRUE relationship with Christ really sets a person free.





Until all the other Christians start telling you why you aren't a REAL Christian.


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## stringmusic (Oct 15, 2010)

earl said:


> Until all the other Christians start telling you why you aren't a REAL Christian.



I'll never tell anybody they are not a "real" Christian, I will tell somebody that TRUE Christianity IMO has nothing to do with some of the mumbo jumbo that some Christians argue about that atheist use to fuel there false fire.


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## ambush80 (Oct 15, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> I'll never tell anybody they are not a "real" Christian, I will tell somebody that TRUE Christianity IMO has nothing to do with some of the mumbo jumbo that some Christians argue about that atheist use to fuel there false fire.




My wife's parent go to a UCC church: United Church of Christ.  They have a lesbian pastor.  Are they TRUE Christians?


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 15, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> My wife's parent go to a UCC church: United Church of Christ.  They have a lesbian pastor.  Are they TRUE Christians?



I don't see why they wouldn't be, ambush. Now as you well know, some "holier than thou" Christians will tell you that if you aren't this denomination or that denomination then you're not a "Christian". We get waaaaay too hung up on denominations.


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## ambush80 (Oct 15, 2010)

RoosterTodd said:


> I don't see why they wouldn't be, ambush. Now as you well know, some "holier than thou" Christians will tell you that if you aren't this denomination or that denomination then you're not a "Christian". We get waaaaay too hung up on denominations.



If one were to follow the bible and its teachings, as I understand it, homosexuality should not be "normalized" or accepted.   To have a gay pastor seems like it does both of those.  Of course I don't have the magical discernment power.....or do I?


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 15, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> If one were to follow the bible and its teachings, as I understand it, homosexuality should not be "normalized" or accepted.   To have a gay pastor seems like it does both of those.  Of course I don't have the magical discernment power.....or do I?



Matthew 9:12 has your answer. You can't help the pastor to see the error of her ways if you're not around her.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 15, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> My wife's parent go to a UCC church: United Church of Christ.  They have a lesbian pastor.  Are they TRUE Christians?



Only God knows their hearts.  The pastor is an individual removed from others.  God knows her heart too. Only He knows for sure.


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## emusmacker (Oct 18, 2010)

If the pastor is a homosexual, then why would they go and sit under such abominable teachings. A pastor is supposed to be the leader of his flock, and to teach the true gospel, how can that pastor teach the true gospel when God said Himself that homosexuality is an abomination?


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## stringmusic (Oct 18, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> If the pastor is a homosexual, then why would they go and sit under such abominable teachings. A pastor is supposed to be the leader of his flock, and to teach the true gospel, how can that pastor teach the true gospel when God said Himself that homosexuality is an abomination?



Every pastor sins, you cant pick one sin and say that somebody should not be a pastor of a church because of that one sin. However, I feel that if someone is obviously sinning and feels no remorse about those sins then they should probably not be leading a church. IMO. She knows that homosexuality is a sin, if she truly beleives what the bible says. She might be doing a number of different things in her mind to make it ok. If she has a relationship with Jesus she will one day be conficted of her sin. But if people want to go here her talk about Christ and God and learn from her out of the Bible, to each there own. Just because she chose homosexuality doesnt mean she is not going to heaven just like you or me. There is a huge can of worms being opened here, should a women even lead a church? what about a pastor that has an affair, should he keep leading the church? There is endless discussion that could be had about these things. All that matters in the end is everyone's relationship or non-relationship with Christ.


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## ambush80 (Oct 19, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> If the pastor is a homosexual, then why would they go and sit under such abominable teachings. A pastor is supposed to be the leader of his flock, and to teach the true gospel, how can that pastor teach the true gospel when God said Himself that homosexuality is an abomination?



Because they're unrepentant, liberal, homo loving, Bible spittin' on, Universalist, Kum Ba Ya singin', Devil lettin' in, non descernin', Humanist, whatever feels good, bringin' down America, Commie, Pinko, Tree huggin', Jesus haters.



stringmusic said:


> Every pastor sins, you cant pick one sin and say that somebody should not be a pastor of a church because of that one sin. However, I feel that if someone is obviously sinning and feels no remorse about those sins then they should probably not be leading a church. IMO. She knows that homosexuality is a sin, if she truly beleives what the bible says. She might be doing a number of different things in her mind to make it ok. If she has a relationship with Jesus she will one day be conficted of her sin. But if people want to go here her talk about Christ and God and learn from her out of the Bible, to each there own. Just because she chose homosexuality doesnt mean she is not going to heaven just like you or me. There is a huge can of worms being opened here, should a women even lead a church? what about a pastor that has an affair, should he keep leading the church? There is endless discussion that could be had about these things. All that matters in the end is everyone's relationship or non-relationship with Christ.



Being a Homo is a sin (according to the Bible).   She has no justification for being a pastor.  We should water board her until she renounces her gayness.  I know where she lives.


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## emusmacker (Oct 19, 2010)

stringmusik, you're dead wrong dude, study your bible and you'll see where God commands us to repent, which means "to turn away from" our sins. If she keeps living that lifestyle, then there's no repentance. Besides, wonder what her answer would be if someone asked her if God was lying when HE said homosexuality was an abomination?  Maybe she left that part out her bible. 

Also if you read in Timothy, you'll see the qualifications of a pastor, and it says must be HUSBAND of ONE wife. How does she get around that. It would be hard for me sit and listen to anyone teaching a class that doesn't believe wholeheartedly in what they teach.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> stringmusik, you're dead wrong dude, study your bible and you'll see where God commands us to repent, which means "to turn away from" our sins. If she keeps living that lifestyle, then there's no repentance. Besides, wonder what her answer would be if someone asked her if God was lying when HE said homosexuality was an abomination?  Maybe she left that part out her bible.
> 
> Also if you read in Timothy, you'll see the qualifications of a pastor, and it says must be HUSBAND of ONE wife. How does she get around that? It would be hard for me sit and listen to anyone teaching a class that doesn't believe wholeheartedly in what they teach.



Seems like she's trying.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> stringmusik, you're dead wrong dude, study your bible and you'll see where God commands us to repent, which means "to turn away from" our sins. If she keeps living that lifestyle, then there's no repentance. Besides, wonder what her answer would be if someone asked her if God was lying when HE said homosexuality was an abomination?  Maybe she left that part out her bible.
> 
> Also if you read in Timothy, you'll see the qualifications of a pastor, and it says must be HUSBAND of ONE wife. How does she get around that. It would be hard for me sit and listen to anyone teaching a class that doesn't believe wholeheartedly in what they teach.



According to OT scripture, if you eat shrimp, you are committing an abomination against god just the same as she is by being a homosexual.

Does your pastor eat shrimp?  You should find out, because if he does, then he clearly does not believe wholeheartedly in what he teaches.


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## TTom (Oct 19, 2010)

Lifestyle, other than who she is having sex with what part of her lifestyle do you know anything about?

None of it I suspect other than the fact that we know she spends alot more time in church, than many of us.

Scripture has been used by man to justify slavery, Jesus didn't consider it a moral wrong evidently, in fact he told servants to obey their masters as if they were serving him. Yet today we hold that slavery is a moral wrong absolutely.

Yet we are to consider that homosexuality cannot have shifted based on the knowledge we have gained about it that people of the time and context of the bible didn't have.


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## stringmusic (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> According to OT scripture, if you eat shrimp, you are committing an abomination against god just the same as she is by being a homosexual.
> 
> *Does your pastor eat shrimp?  You should find out, because if he does, then he clearly does not believe wholeheartedly in what he teaches.*



This is what I'm talking about emus, you cant pick out one sin and say someone should not be a pastor, people will pick it apart.(see above statement in red) I don't agree with a with a homosexuall pastor, some do and thats fine with me, It has nothing to do with salvation issues, that is my whole point.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> Does your pastor eat shrimp?  You should find out, because if he does, then he clearly does not believe wholeheartedly in what he teaches.



You are incorrect.  1st - God's Commandments != Levitical Code.  2nd - You still don't get it.  The "law" was never intended as a guidebook to show us how to live.  It's purpose is to show that we need a Savior.  

Romans 3:19b-20 "for its *purpose* is to keep people from having excuses, *and* to show that the entire world is guilty before God. *For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.*"


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> You are incorrect.  1st - God's Commandments != Levitical Code.  2nd - You still don't get it.  The "law" was never intended as a guidebook to show us how to live.  It's purpose is to show that we need a Savior.
> 
> Romans 3:19b-20 "for its *purpose* is to keep people from having excuses, *and* to show that the entire world is guilty before God. *For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.*"



So we both believe there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.  Glad we agree on something.


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## dexrusjak (Oct 19, 2010)

VisionCasting said:


> You are incorrect.  1st - God's Commandments != Levitical Code.  2nd - You still don't get it.  The "law" was never intended as a guidebook to show us how to live.  It's purpose is to show that we need a Savior.
> [/B]"



From shrimp?


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> From shrimp?



There is no saving me from shrimp.  Or vice-versa.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> So we both believe there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.  Glad we agree on something.



If that's your attempt at a proposition, my answer is 'no'.     Sorry, but I'm happily married (to the wonderful woman in my avitar).

IMHO - Mainstream "Christianity" has long ago incorrectly drawn a line in the sand on homosexuality.  That is a sanctification issue, not a salvation issue.  In fact, I've got a friend that is a homosexual and [much more recently] a Christian.  What she realized is that God's love transcends all that, and He loves her the same as He loves me or you.

If you are asking if homosexuality is a "sin"...   I can only tell you that decision is WAY above my pay grade.  

There was once a old preacher that looked at me and said these words:  "I let God alone judge a sin, a sin". I figure the wisdom of his years proved right many times over.

PS - I was trying to 'trick' him into an answer on the same subject at the time.


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## davidstaples (Oct 19, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> ...she chose homosexuality...



  So why did you choose to be straight?  When did you make that decision?


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## stringmusic (Oct 19, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> So why did you choose to be straight?  When did you make that decision?



I am going to start the answer by asking a question. were you born asexual?
Definition of asexual (adj)
a·sex·u·al [ ay sékshoo É™l ]   
sexually inactive: without sexual desire or activity


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## TTom (Oct 19, 2010)

No we are not born asexual in the scientific definition of the term. We are born sexually immature. That is a very different concept from asexual.

But sexual feelings and arousal to slight degrees occur in us (humans) from a very young age long before we understand what sex is. We all know that you have to teach young boys and girls that it is not appropriate to touch yourself there, that way all the time. (well except jocks athletes never seemed to learn not to do it) Just as you have to teach most of them to keep their clothes on.

So no neither you nor I were born actually asexual.

Now answer the question tell us about the day you sat down and debated in your head the pros and cons of you being gay vs straight.

Tell us all about the day you looked with equal desire upon Steve ad Jill and had to decide which gender you would find sexually attractive.

The fact is you can't because that day never happened, you grew up and without much thought you started to react to girls differently than you did to boys. 

Oddly enough gay boys and lesbian women experienced that exact same change in their life. One day they started to see men and women differently when it came to attraction.


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## crbrumbelow (Oct 19, 2010)

First of all,  a woman is not supposed to be a pastor.  

1Ti 2:11  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 
1Ti 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 
1Ti 2:13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
1Ti 2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 

1Ti 3:1  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 

Second of  all a pastor is not to be homosexual.  

1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 

And third;  noone is "born gay".  God said it is an abomination and that he created man in his own image.  He would not create an abomination to himself.

Lev 18:22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 

Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


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## crbrumbelow (Oct 19, 2010)

Oh and yes,  my brother is a confessed atheist.  I pray continually for him.  I do not argue with him because I have yet to meet an atheist who can prove the Bible wrong but know a few former atheists who now know that it is truth.  People take bits and pieces and twist it to mean what the want but refuse to read the entire context of a book and dont know when or who the person that wrote which book is preaching, singing or talking to.


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## TTom (Oct 19, 2010)

Deny the science all you want, but the science proves you wrong.
homosexuality is proving to have at the very least a genetic component.

But lets not let facts of science get in the way of the bible.

Remember how wrong Galileo was about the Earth not being the center of the universe. How the Church and all the religious establishment said the earth was flat and immobile and never moved. and used various books of the bible to firmly prove that it was so. And how they jailed the scientist who dared speak out that earth revolved around the sun not the other way around.


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## VisionCasting (Oct 19, 2010)

TTom said:


> Deny the science all you want, but the science proves you wrong.
> homosexuality is proving to have at the very least a genetic component.



All compulsive traits have an aspect of genetics.  Alcoholism runs in my family.  But [by the grace of God] I have been able to control my compulsion for excessive alcohol.  

What's your point?

PS - although some people on this forum are quick to criticize grammatical errors, but we will extend you a measure of grace.


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## crbrumbelow (Oct 19, 2010)

God gave man a free will and an exceptional capacity for knowledge and to adapt.  

Deny Him if you will.  In the end you will be given one reprieve from he11.  All those in he11 will meet Jesus at the great white throne of judgement.  To me it is possibly the cruelest thing that can happen.  all the unsaved will meet Jesus and He WILL cast them into the lake of fire.  The final death.


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## Inthegarge (Oct 19, 2010)

TTom said:


> Deny the science all you want, but the science proves you wrong.
> homosexuality is proving to have at the very least a genetic component.
> 
> But lets not let facts of science get in the way of the bible.
> ...



WRONG.... there is NO scientific evidence of a "Gay gene". If you think you have some post the citations so we can all see if they are accurate.   Also WRONG on the Bible...it was the Bible that says the earth revolves around the sun. Again check your references......RW


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## SneekEE (Oct 19, 2010)

dexrusjak said:


> If someone very close to you (a son, daughter, parent, friend, etc.) who you believe to be a sold-out, blood bought, born again Christian tells you that he or she is actually an atheist, and has been (secretly) for years, how would you respond?  Would you treat this person any differently?  Have any of you ever had this experience?



Had many experinces where freinds or family realise they are lost, even though they had been in church there whole life, and professing to be a christian. I was supposedly "saved" in my teens, then didnt attend a church untill i was in my mid 30s. Didnt truly recieve Christ or know Him untill then.

But I doubt a close family member could convince me they are "atheist" and had been for years and me not know it. Add to that I do not believe there is such a thing as a atheist, then I doubt a close family member would even try to tell me they were one.

But if they did I dont think it would cause me to treat them any differantly. In fact it would be a good thing if they were having doubts and renounced Christ, and admitted they were lost. You have to admitt you are lost b4 you can be saved, so once we got the lifetime of faking out of the way, then we could get serious.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 19, 2010)

Inthegarge said:


> WRONG.... there is NO scientific evidence of a "Gay gene". If you think you have some post the citations so we can all see if they are accurate.   Also WRONG on the Bible...it was the Bible that says the earth revolves around the sun. Again check your references......RW



If you're heck bent on him providing a link to a source, by all means, I think you should provide a link to what you're claiming.   I'm interested!


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## Achilles Return (Oct 20, 2010)

crbrumbelow said:


> God gave man a free will and an exceptional capacity for knowledge and to adapt.
> 
> Deny Him if you will.  In the end you will be given one reprieve from he11.  All those in he11 will meet Jesus at the great white throne of judgement.  To me it is possibly the cruelest thing that can happen.  all the unsaved will meet Jesus and He WILL cast them into the lake of fire.  The final death.



Sounds like a nice guy.


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

First off Inthegarge, lets be clear about what I said and what you claim I said.

I said it is clear there is a genetic component.
I did not claim there was a gay gene. 

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=87

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Psychology/Sexuality/?view=usa&ci=9780199737673

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8332896&dopt=Abstract

and an easier to read but fairly well balanced article from Discover Magazine.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay


Secod the idea that the Bible says the earth revolves around the sun you'll have to provide that link because. Here are the times where the Bible states otherwise. 

Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.  [King James]

Note science tells us that the sun would not have stood still but rather the earth would have stopped rotating, for this miracle to happen, which I'm not going to debate.

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.  [KJV] 

Note pre 17th century te earth was flat and did not move so it had a foundation that didn't move. However now we know that the earth is ALWAYS moving that it has no real foundation that it sits upon.

And here not scripture but historic documentation from Galileo's trial for heretical teachings of Copernican nature.

A decree of February 19, 1616, summoned Qualifiers of the Holy Office and required them to give their opinion on the two following propositions in Galileo's work on the solar spots.  (The assessment was made in Rome, on Wednesday, February 24, 1616.)

Proposition to be assessed: 

(1) The sun is the center of the world and wholly immovable from its place. 

Assessment: This proposition was unanimously declared "foolish and absurd. philosophically and formally heretical inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the doctrine of the Holy Scripture in many passages, both in their literal meaning and according to the general interpretation of the Holy Fathers and the doctors of theology." 

(2) The earth is not the center of the world, nor immovable, but it moves as a whole, also with diurnal motion. 

Assessment: This proposition was unanimously declared "deserving of the like censure in philosophy, and as regards theological truth, to be at least errouneous in faith."


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

TTom said:


> First off Inthegarge, lets be clear about what I said and what you claim I said.
> 
> I said it is clear there is a genetic component.
> I did not claim there was a gay gene.
> ...



THE EARTHS NOT FLAT!!!!


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## goob (Oct 20, 2010)

emusmacker said:


> stringmusik, you're dead wrong dude, study your bible and you'll see where God commands us to repent, which means "to turn away from" our sins. If she keeps living that lifestyle, then there's no repentance. Besides, wonder what her answer would be if someone asked her if God was lying when HE said homosexuality was an abomination?  Maybe she left that part out her bible.
> 
> Also if you read in Timothy, you'll see the qualifications of a pastor, and it says must be HUSBAND of ONE wife. How does she get around that. It would be hard for me sit and listen to anyone teaching a class that doesn't believe wholeheartedly in what they teach.






I mostly read in here, but I totally agree with you. Also there's a difference in a man being called to preach and a man that reads notes and is NOT called to preach. Just my belief too.


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## TTom (Oct 20, 2010)

And yet Stringmusic the Bible infers in some places that it is.
(Man's understanding of science being lacking at the time, he often described it as flat even in the Bible.)

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.

yet we know now that the earth spins to create night and day instead of the sun traveling across the sky.

Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

a circle is flat right?

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb; "I am the Lord, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

You spread something out flat like a cloth.

Of course I see all of this as allegory as opposed to a literal interpretation of the Bible. 

As I said before I don't blame God for this misunderstanding or for the inaccuracy, I blame man for it.
But the verses are there and history is well documented that the Church held the Flat Earth theory until well after the 1600's, as theologically sound.


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## davidstaples (Oct 20, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> I am going to start the answer by asking a question. were you born asexual?
> Definition of asexual (adj)
> a·sex·u·al [ ay sékshoo É™l ]
> sexually inactive: without sexual desire or activity



I probably didn't have a sexual desire when I was born, but I did have the organs.  I also wasn't born with pubic hair.  That's where puberty comes in.  Since you like quoting the dictionary, let's quote it here...

"Also called: pubescence  the period at the beginning of adolescence when the sex glands become functional and the secondary sexual characteristics emerge."


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## stringmusic (Oct 20, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> I *PROBABLY* didn't have a sexual desire when I was born, but I did have the organs.
> 
> what?
> 
> ...



To be honest there really isn't an answer that we are both going to agree on. There is alot of things that go into if being a homosexual is a choice or a person is born that way. I get the conclution that i come to from the bible, that a man and woman should be together. You don't believe in the bible, so we are both starting from different points on this issue.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 20, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> To be honest there really isn't an answer that we are both going to agree on. There is alot of things that go into if being a homosexual is a choice or a person is born that way. I get the conclution that i come to from the bible, that a man and woman should be together. You don't believe in the bible, so we are both starting from different points on this issue.



I have known many gay people.  It seems to me that some sort of traumatic experience triggers this behavior.  I even know of a set of twins where one was gay, and the other not.  The gay one was molested as a child, the straight one not.  Obviously not a definitive study, but merely an observation.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 20, 2010)

TTom said:


> Deny the science all you want, but the science proves you wrong.
> homosexuality is proving to have at the very least a genetic component.
> 
> But lets not let facts of science get in the way of the bible.
> ...



This is not possible, as science does not prove anything, it merely supports, or does not support a hypothesis.


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## davidstaples (Oct 21, 2010)

stringmusic said:


> You don't believe in the bible, so we are both starting from different points on this issue.



That's where you're wrong.  I do believe in the Bible.  I've seen plenty of them.    I know they exist.  I just don't agree with the fictional parts of it.


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## stringmusic (Oct 21, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> That's where you're wrong.  I do believe in the Bible.  I've seen plenty of them.    I know they exist.  I just don't agree with the fictional parts of it.



go me on that one


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