# Cotton mouth ?



## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

What is the most northern recorded sighting of a "wild" cottonmouth?


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## germag (Sep 10, 2010)

In Georgia? They are found on the western side of the state up to the extreme N.W. corner, and all of the coastal plain. In the center of the state they have been found as far north as south Fulton County.


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

Wow! I figured maybe alittle north of Macon.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 10, 2010)

germag said:


> In Georgia? They are found on the western side of the state up to the extreme N.W. corner, and all of the coastal plain. In the center of the state they have been found as far north as south Fulton County.





I`m sure you`ve seen one colored up like this, but I wish you could have seen the fat 3 footer that came crawlin` across the ROW and into the middle of us while we were workin` in Early County 2 years ago. As I walked up to it, I just knew it was a canebrake, the way it was colored up. I was mighty surprised when I saw it was a cottonmouth. I`ve never, before or since, seen one that light colored, with such deep pronounced bands. That was one purty snake.


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## germag (Sep 10, 2010)

Here's a link to a page with a pretty good range map:

http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/agkpis.htm


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`m sure you`ve seen one colored up like this, but I wish you could have seen the fat 3 footer that came crawlin` across the ROW and into the middle of us while we were workin` in Early County 2 years ago. As I walked up to it, I just knew it was a canebrake, the way it was colored up. I was mighty surprised when I saw it was a cottonmouth. I`ve never, before or since, seen one that light colored, with such deep pronounced bands. That was one purty snake.


No pic?


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

germag said:


> Here's a link to a page with a pretty good range map:
> 
> http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/agkpis.htm



Sweet!


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## Nicodemus (Sep 10, 2010)

shakey gizzard said:


> No pic?





Not that one, no. I have got a good pic of one from last spring. Ir was an Early County snake too. I`ve posted it before, but if you want to see it, I`ll post it here. It`s a good representitive.


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## germag (Sep 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I`m sure you`ve seen one colored up like this, but I wish you could have seen the fat 3 footer that came crawlin` across the ROW and into the middle of us while we were workin` in Early County 2 years ago. As I walked up to it, I just knew it was a canebrake, the way it was colored up. I was mighty surprised when I saw it was a cottonmouth. I`ve never, before or since, seen one that light colored, with such deep pronounced bands. That was one purty snake.



I've seen a few that were really nice like that....I know one fellow that has some leucistic cottonmouths that are very striking animals....pure white.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 10, 2010)

germag said:


> I've seen a few that were really nice like that....I know one fellow that has some leucistic cottonmouths that are very striking animals....pure white.



Wow! I bet that took some selective breedin`!


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 10, 2010)

Back in the mid 70's we found one here in Gwinnett County, in Snellville. It was the first and last one I ever saw this far north.


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

germag said:


> I've seen a few that were really nice like that....I know one fellow that has some leucistic cottonmouths that are very striking animals....pure white.



I wish they all were white!Or flourescent orange! The one snake hate!


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## germag (Sep 10, 2010)

Yeah, the original stock was wild caught by fishermen on a little island off the coast of Mississippi. Terry got them and managed to breed them out....it took several years and a lot of work, but he accomplished it.

Here's a photo of one:


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## Nicodemus (Sep 10, 2010)

Here lately, I`ve actually started givin` the cottonmouth the respect that I feel it deserves. I`ve always felt that way about the rattlesnakes, and coral snakes. I haven`t run on on that many copperheads down here, just a few. Poor old cottonmouths I just never liked em. That`s startin` to change.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 10, 2010)

germag said:


> Yeah, the original stock was wild caught by fishermen on a little island off the coast of Mississippi. Terry got them and managed to breed them out....it took several years and a lot of work, but he accomplished it.
> 
> Here's a photo of one:





Dadgum!!! That adds new meanin` to unique!! Purty one!


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## shakey gizzard (Sep 10, 2010)

What he do with the ones that werent white?How long did his breeding program take!


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## germag (Sep 10, 2010)

shakey gizzard said:


> What he do with the ones that werent white?How long did his breeding program take!



I think it took him about 3 or 4 years to produce leucistic offspring. The normally colored offpring would be used for breeding because, although they may not be leucistic themselves, they may be heterozygous for the trait, meaning that they have one allele for normal coloration and one for leucisticism at that  locus. Once homozygous offspring are produced that are genetically separated enough, then you can breed them.


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## mbhawkins123 (Sep 10, 2010)

ive seen them over towards rome and right on the alabama line....but never seen one in murray or whitfield county ever...would like to though


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Here lately, I`ve actually started givin` the cottonmouth the respect that I feel it deserves. I`ve always felt that way about the rattlesnakes, and coral snakes. I haven`t run on on that many copperheads down here, just a few. Poor old cottonmouths I just never liked em. That`s startin` to change.



I am seeing more copperheads than anything, I will keep the next one I catch for ya if you want.  I don't even know how many I have caught out of my yard this year, the past few years that is the most common snake I have seen. Heck, I have seen more of them than rat snakes and racers this year, and that is a first. I think there are a couple of heavy breeding females that live in my yard, cause everyone I have caught this year are barely a foot long if that.  Strange but I don't see any cottonmouths in my yard, I reckon it is cause all the gators that hang out off my yard in the lake.  I seldom find them when I see alot of gators.

That white cottonmouth looks like it would be great bait for a really big bass, I imagine they would eat them things up.  I imagine it would be some really expensive bait though, one of them probably would set back about as much as a few hundred large wild gold shinners during peak bass spawn in central Fla.


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## oneholer (Sep 10, 2010)

I have killed cottonmouths in virginia in the shenandoah river. Theres not many, but they are there.


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## jigman29 (Sep 14, 2010)

Saw one swimming in lake hartwell once.but I didn't kill it so I have no proof other than my word but I have never saw one there before or since.


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## germag (Sep 15, 2010)

oneholer said:


> I have killed cottonmouths in virginia in the shenandoah river. Theres not many, but they are there.



I don't know about the Shenandoah River, but I know that they are in the Blackwater and Nottoway River basin.


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## toyota4x4h (Sep 15, 2010)

Im no snake expert but I believe Ive saw quit a few up at Fort Mountain State Park here in Chatsworth!! I used to work the swimming area and boats when I was in high school and one summer down next to the docs there was a rather fat bout coke can round snake curled up on the waters edge. It was about 2ft or maybe more and had a very tiny tail..like the whole body was thick cept for its tail. It never showed its mouth though so I dunno.


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## germag (Sep 15, 2010)

toyota4x4h said:


> Im no snake expert but I believe Ive saw quit a few up at Fort Mountain State Park here in Chatsworth!! I used to work the swimming area and boats when I was in high school and one summer down next to the docs there was a rather fat bout coke can round snake curled up on the waters edge. It was about 2ft or maybe more and had a very tiny tail..like the whole body was thick cept for its tail. It never showed its mouth though so I dunno.



That wouldn't surprise me a lot...that's right on the eastern edge of their known range in North Georgia.


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 15, 2010)

While I am no expert myself, I have spent the majority of my life in the swamps of south Georgia and north Florida and am not affraid of snakes, I know the vast majority of them live in the coastal plain and while they might get out of the coastal plain they are rare outside the coastal plain.  When I lived in Macon I saw more water snakes of various types killed as cotton mouths by folks swearing they were cotton mouths. I would bet that more snakes have been killed for being cotton mouths when they weren't, than for any other reason, I hope I am never reborn as a banded water snake.  One thing I have noticed is that if you got alot of gators or alot of water snakes, I see nowhere as many cotton mouths, at least in south Ga. and north Fla, it ain't that way down in south Fla though. The most I have ever seen was on the old Dixie Plantation on the Georgia side (used to be evenly almost in Ga. and Fla.). We were doing a cruise down there in 1980 or so and we were finding literally dozens a day, the water was low in the tupelo and cypress bottoms and they were everywhere.  We also bumped a few bear out of those bottoms.  I know I might be steeping on toes, but I have seen more banded or redbellied water snakes killed as them by country folk than I have seen actual cotton mouths killed. Nic, on that cruise on Dixie I caught a lil cotton mouth (it was young and really brightly colored, kinda cute actually) and our mutal friend Ben thought I was stupid, I kept it until I went into the army when I let it loose out between Albany and Leary.


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## flintdiver (Sep 15, 2010)

I know someone in GA has some of the Leucy's . I'm sure his came from Terry. The are striking, no pun intended ! This guy also bred a cottonmouth with a copperhead, called them cottonheads. He did this I think just once, and it was back in the 90's.


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## germag (Sep 15, 2010)

flintdiver said:


> I know someone in GA has some of the Leucy's . I'm sure his came from Terry. The are striking, no pun intended ! This guy also bred a cottonmouth with a copperhead, called them cottonheads. He did this I think just once, and it was back in the 90's.



Hybridizing copperheads and cottonmouths was actually first done back in the '70s.


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 19, 2010)

Found another copperhead yesterday, but this one was in Mitchell Co. down near Baconton, I thought about catching him for ya Nic, but he was already caught.  The dangedist thing I have ever seen, a king snake had him.  At first he had him by his tail, I got the dogs away (was running my dogs getting ready for bird season) came back about 30 minutes later he was wrapping around the copperhead.  Went to go get a camera, came back in about 10 minutes it looked like he was still constricting, took  some pics and the copperhead was still alive and kicking then we left nature to its business.  

Now for the really interesting part.  I have always heard king snakes were immune to snake venom, well when we found these two yesterday, the king snake had the copperhead literally by the tip of his tail.  The copperhead was aggresive towards me and struck, but he never struck at the kingsnake.  Came back later he struck at us again but not at the king snake.  The last time I came back with the camera he struck some more (over 40 or so minutes had passed from discovery by now) but once again never at the king snake.  It was like the copperhead never knew the king snake was there, like I said earlier it was down right strange. I will post pics if I can ever figure out how to on this forum, I will post them later today on my face book page.


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 19, 2010)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=538223&l=5ba55a67fc&id=1801413405  That is the only way I can figure out how to upload a photo on here.  It is one of the kingsnake killing a copperhead.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 19, 2010)

Here ya go, Jay. I figured out how to transfer it. That`s a good picture.


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## redneck_billcollector (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks Nic, I dang near got bit by the copperhead, I saw the king snake all balled up and I reached down to check him out, see if anything was wrong, and the copperhead struck.  I couldn't see the copperhead due to his camo and being focused on the king snake.  At the time the king snake had the copperhead literally by the tip of his tail and the copperhead's body was on some oak leaves that ain't in the picture and his color was bout the same as the sand's.  Those pics were taken some 40 minutes later, I went back to the scene to see if the king snake was through and maybe do a lil transplant with him to help keep them lil copperheads from continuously bitin' my dogs. I have  a few more pics of nature running its course on my facebook page.

I probably should have contacted PETA so they could have protested the king snake,  that poor little  copperhead was tortured by that king snake, it had to have suffered well over an hour...


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## Mr. Fishunt (Sep 19, 2010)

*Cottonmouth*

We came across this one on a float trip below Sprewell Bluff on the Flint River.  We were barefoot wading up a creek....
This is the farthest north I've seen one in Georgia.

Regards,
Mr. Fishunt


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## WTM45 (Sep 19, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Back in the mid 70's we found one here in Gwinnett County, in Snellville. It was the first and last one I ever saw this far north.



Not suprised at all.
We killed four one summer in Lithonia back in '79.


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## Buckshot (Sep 19, 2010)

*Hancock county*

I killed one the other day in Hancock County. I haven't ever had an encounter with such an agressive snake ever until this one . We usually have to worry about the timber rattlers and the copper heads around down there. Haven't ever seen any cottonmouths just the usual water snakes moccasins. So i've never minded just walking right up the middle of the creeks , we even take a bar of irish spring down there sometimes and soak our behinds when its soo hot. Not no more !! I stepped over a crosstie that had washed down stream aways that had made a little dam with water running over it when there he was ! This thing was about 3ft long, its head was atleast the size of a dip can, was dark dark brown almost black with some markings on him that looked almost just like the markings of a timber rattler, couldn't really see the markings unless he was in the right sunlight. Anyway this thing stood straight up almost like a cobra started coming at me at first then turned and went the other way. It went under ther water then and you could see its whole body under the water with only its head exposed and its mouth was open so wide almost 180 degrees. Thats when i shot it. I wanted to make certain that it was a cottonmouth , so with the help of a really long branch, bout 8ft, i started poking around at its mouth to try to see its fangs when this thing bit the branch, one fang centered the branch the other missed but shot a stream of venom straight at me. I'm telling you what I have seen them milk the venom from snakes on tv and drip drip drip never have I seen this , it looked like my kids super soaker, steady stream of venom that shot atleast 8-10 feet! I could not imagine what kind of damage a lethal injection like that would cause to anything. You wouldn't have had a chance!!! Its body was big around as my arm yet only 3ft long. Just thought I would share that with you all. Be careful out there, they are everywhere this year and BIG ! That Mr. NoShoulders!


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## Ole Fuzzy (Sep 19, 2010)

Buckshot said:


> Haven't ever seen any cottonmouths just the usual water snakes moccasins.



"Cottonmouth" is a colloquial name for a water moccasin, they are the same snake.  If someone calls another snake a moccasin, it is not correct.  But the banded watersnakes are commonly referred to as cottonmouths or moccasins.


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## HALOJmpr (Sep 19, 2010)

Funny that the map does not show their range as NW Tennessee or Western NC.  Growing up there I have seen quite a few and I guess they are like the black panthers are to GA


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## lagrangedave (Sep 19, 2010)

Did Native Americans make footware with them?


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## Nicodemus (Sep 19, 2010)

lagrangedave said:


> Did Native Americans make footware with them?





Nope.


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## Twenty five ought six (Sep 19, 2010)

I've seen two cottonmouths in the Atlanta area.  There was no question about their identification.  Both were a good while back, and maybe with climate change and all, they don't get that far north.

The first one in particular I remember, because he kept striking at the swing blade the laborer was using to try and decapitate the snake.  There was absolutely no doubt about the identification of that snake, especially as the laborer finally prevailed.  That snake was in Sugar Creek in East Atlanta.


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## cracker1 (Sep 21, 2010)

I've run across these little devils in SW TN (Henderson / Chester counties).  Found'em in the low lands around the Forked Deer River.


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## germag (Sep 21, 2010)

cracker1 said:


> I've run across these little devils in SW TN (Henderson / Chester counties).  Found'em in the low lands around the Forked Deer River.



Yep, they are definitely in western TN, adjoining Kentucky, AR, and Southern Ill. There's also a colony in MO.


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## Buck Nasty (Sep 21, 2010)

I saw one at Hard Labor Creek SP...and there was no doubt about it being a cottonmouth.


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## mjfortner (Sep 29, 2010)

*Ne ga*

I live in Jackson county and have seen several in the area. I got a real good look at one that fell into my flat bottomed john boat. I was fishing a farm pond in madison county at the time.


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## MR.BIGBUCK (Sep 29, 2010)

I know they are a far as atlanta back years ago at six flags a girl was getting in the log rides they had back then and she got bit by a cottonmouth. and i believe she had to stay in the hospital for a few days. I think she lived but that was to many years ago for me to say for sure.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 30, 2010)

HALOJmpr said:


> Funny that the map does not show their range as NW Tennessee or Western NC.  Growing up there I have seen quite a few and I guess they are like the black panthers are to GA



I've lived in western NC all my life, going on 43 years and I've never seen a cottonmouth here outside of Soco Gardens zoo, nor has anyone else I know. We have plenty of copperheads and timber rattlers (and northern water snakes), but no cottonmouths. The only place in NC I have seen cottonmouths is below the Fall Line in the Coastal Plain.


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## hogtrap44 (Oct 2, 2010)

I've seen'um while fishing the French Broad river in N.C. 
 Some in the small creeks in that area. Lot as thick as they are here though.


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## plottman25 (Oct 2, 2010)

Okifenokee Joe, said that he confirmed 2 kills in Rome.  My dad also killed one over at Floyd College pond.


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## hunterboy56 (Nov 29, 2010)

Killed a few in Northwest Cherokee county


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## safebuilder (Nov 29, 2010)

Back in the mid 70's we were out of school due to a severe cold front. My buddy and I found one that had been frozen up out of the ground. You could poke it with a knife and he would just react in slow motion...barely moving. I found a bag and took him home...my Daddy just about whooped me. And Mama didn't even want me in the house! Amazing what teenage boys will do. All of that was in Athens.


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## georgiabound (Nov 29, 2010)

Biggest one I've ever seen was in Walker County on Chickamauga creek. Close to 4 ft. long and dark grey. As big around as my arm!

Looked a lot like the picture that Mr. Fishunt posted!


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## egomaniac247 (Dec 6, 2010)

germag said:


> I don't know about the Shenandoah River, but I know that they are in the Blackwater and Nottoway River basin.




Saw a HUGE one on the Chickahominy River in New Kent or James County, Va.  This sucker was FAT.  I'd always heard that was about as far north as they go.  I'm sure Dismal Swamp at the border of NC & VA is loaded with them as well.



I know most people confuse them with the skinnier, longer water snakes.  I will say this too, a water snake sure is ornery....those things will strike at ya like there's no tomorrow.


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## ron moore (Jan 8, 2011)

*Saw one in Gwinnett County, GA*

In the mid 70's I was riding my Toyota Land Cruiser in the swamps between Duluth and Suwanee.  I saw a snake between 3 and 4 feet long in a mushy area.  I ran over it with my left front tire pinning it down into the mud about mid way of it's body.  I looked out the window and it was trying to strike my tire and the inside of it's mouth was as white as "cotton".  I backed up and let it go and left the area without getting out of my truck.


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