# Grouse



## bscrandall (Jan 20, 2020)

Shot in the dark but about how far do you have to go for grouse? Anyone think there would be any on cohutta or would I need to go further east?


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 20, 2020)

I have never hunted Cohuta. I have hunted the public land farther east in Georgia. These days they are hard to find. The lack of cutting/burning has really bad a negative impact all over the Southern Appalachian mountains.


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## trad bow (Jan 21, 2020)

When I was a younger fellow and able to hunt the mountains I always found a few in Cohutta but found more around Clayton area.  This was in the eighties and nineties. Not many around anymore.


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## Deleted member 35556 (Jan 21, 2020)

My bro talked to a man who had gotten a couple grouse up around Clayton this year.  We were hunting woodcock when we ran into him.  So they're around in Georgia, but i'm assuming you'll be burning a bunch of boot leather to find 'em.


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 21, 2020)

There are still a few and maybe even a few more than  people think, but it is hard hunting. The eighties and part of the nineties were still good. I still think there might be enough left that they could come back if the land was managed right, but the clock is ticking.


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## Deleted member 35556 (Jan 21, 2020)

coachdoug87 said:


> There are still a few and maybe even a few more than  people think, but it is hard hunting. The eighties and part of the nineties were still good. I still think there might be enough left that they could come back if the land was managed right, but the clock is ticking.



Let's even say there was a decent population up there.  The hunting is still gonna be hard.  Those mountains aren't kind to anybody who's not in shape to walk up and down them looking for some birds.


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 21, 2020)

That is another good point. At one time, you could find them in the foothills. Now, it is pretty much just the counties that border North Carolina and Tennessee. In other words, the steepest land in the state.


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## herb mcclure (Jan 21, 2020)

Having been an old era Grouse hunter from the '50s through the '80s, I know I experienced the hey-day of Georgia's grouse hunting, I am sure. However, there are still a few grouse left, which I cross paths with going into and out of the turkey woods I still visit. I even saw a grouse walking across a White County blacktop road just North of Cleveland, GA. not long ago.
 Also, I am the ole hunter who wrote the grouse story published back in December's  GON magazine titled _Mountain Grouse Memories. _


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## whitetailfreak (Jan 21, 2020)

I flushed one on Cohutta Saturday morning. There's still several around.


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## trad bow (Jan 21, 2020)

Their still around but not in numbers that we in the old days remember. Even in the seventies my father carried us back to his home place in Cherokee county N.C.  Birds were very plentiful there.  We would hit several spots in Georgia on the way home but even back then the bird numbers were low compared to N.C.


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 21, 2020)

herb mcclure said:


> Having been an old era Grouse hunter from the '50s through the '80s, I know I experienced the hey-day of Georgia's grouse hunting, I am sure. However, there are still a few grouse left, which I cross paths with going into and out of the turkey woods I still visit. I even saw a grouse walking across a White County blacktop road just North of Cleveland, GA. not long ago.
> Also, I am the ole hunter who wrote the grouse story published back in December's  GON magazine titled _Mountain Grouse Memories. _



I read that. A really good article.


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## Coach K (Jan 21, 2020)

I wonder if RGS magazine could ask GON for permission to republish that article in their "Covers Magazine".  I hope you will submit it to them.  I too enjoyed the article,.....but triples on grouse????  ;-)


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## Rulo (Jan 21, 2020)

Back in the 80s North Georgia was full of Grouse. As a youth my Dad would drag me up there to climb those mountains to hunt them. And we did! It was pretty consistent shooting and flushing them but we'd walk all day!


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

herb mcclure said:


> Having been an old era Grouse hunter from the '50s through the '80s, I know I experienced the hey-day of Georgia's grouse hunting, I am sure. However, there are still a few grouse left, which I cross paths with going into and out of the turkey woods I still visit. I even saw a grouse walking across a White County blacktop road just North of Cleveland, GA. not long ago.
> Also, I am the ole hunter who wrote the grouse story published back in December's  GON magazine titled _Mountain Grouse Memories. _


I enjoyed that article a lot, it brought back some memories here, too. 

I can remember back in the 70s and 80s here, the woods were full of grouse. You could hear them drumming all over, and they were standing all in the roads pecking grit. You could flush half a dozen usually in a morning. 
Then, they just disappeared. I didn't even see one for a few years. The last couple of years, I've been seeing a few more, but nothing like they used to be.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jan 22, 2020)

What led to their decline ?  Loss of habitat ? Predation ?


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## trad bow (Jan 22, 2020)

Habitat my guess. Timber harvest and new growth would be a place to start a comeback.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> What led to their decline ?  Loss of habitat ? Predation ?



Habitat is the main thing.  Ideal grouse habitat is 8% - 12% early successional. I don’t know about GA but forest service lands in western NC are less than 1% right now. Grouse just don’t have the food and cover they need to flourish here anymore. And grouse aren’t the only thing suffering. Everything from songbirds to deer have declined on our public lands. In the early 70’s there were more deer killed on opening day than there are getting killed all season now on the Pisgah NF. All because people don’t like the way a timber project looks.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

Habitat is part of it, but it isn't the only thing going on, for sure. Even private land around here with plenty of good, brushy successional habitat doesn't have many grouse any more. I am wondering if some kind of disease didn't come into play, also. The quail disappeared about the same time. THey are completely gone as far as I can tell. Even in good habitat with broomsedge fields, weedy overgrown fields, briar patches, brushy fencerows, and all the same habitat that used to be full of them.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jan 22, 2020)

The old time bird hunters around here, quail hunters, blame the fire ants for destroying the clutches. Is that a possibility ? Do y'all have them devils up there ?


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> The old time bird hunters around here, quail hunters, blame the fire ants for destroying the clutches. Is that a possibility ? Do y'all have them devils up there ?


We have no fire ants at all. The quail still disappeared about the same time they did down in the flatlands.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

Ran across this for the first time in awhile last year-a mama grouse with a brood of chicks on a gravel forest service road. This used to be an extremely common sight here, but very rare nowadays:


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## turkeykirk (Jan 22, 2020)

I’ve hunted grouse in both Georgia and New York. Georgia isn’t the only place that doesn’t have them like they used to. The New York grouse numbers have declined 80% since the 1960’s. 

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/45436.html


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## trad bow (Jan 22, 2020)

Quail in short supply too. Hunted three hours and covered three miles today. Dog pointed two singles and no shots fired.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

You also have to take into account the numbers of predators and nest robbers on the landscape.  Coyotes weren’t here 50 years ago and all the other predators, birds of prey, nest robbers were pretty much shot and trapped out.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> You also have to take into account the numbers of predators and nest robbers on the landscape.  Coyotes weren’t here 50 years ago and all the other predators, birds of prey, nest robbers were pretty much shot and trapped out.


Grouse and quail have been here for thousands of years with uncontrolled populations of two-three species of wolves, foxes, bobcats, panthers, and all sorts of avian predators and nest robbers. Predators didn't do it.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> We have no fire ants at all. The quail still disappeared about the same time they did down in the flatlands.



You will in a few years. We have been seeing a few mounds pop up here and there for the last five years or so. We’re seeing armadillos on a regular basis too.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> You will in a few years. We have been seeing a few mounds pop up here and there for the last five years or so. We’re seeing armadillos on a regular basis too.


I'm hoping it's too cold up here for them. The closest places I've seen fire ants to here have been Green River gamelands, outside of Brevard, and around Hayesville. I think every county in western NC has had some armadillo sightings now. Which county are you in?


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Grouse and quail have been here for thousands of years with uncontrolled populations of two-three species of wolves, foxes, bobcats, panthers, and all sorts of avian predators and nest robbers. Predators didn't do it.



Predators aren’t going to wipe them out.  But they are a factor in what the grouse population is compared to the glory days. The time period that everyone uses to set the benchmark had a ton of early successional and very little predators. I’m sure there was a time period before the mid 1900’s that had a ton of predators and very little early successional and lower grouse numbers than what we consider the glory days.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I'm hoping it's too cold up here for them. The closest places I've seen fire ants to here have been Green River gamelands, outside of Brevard, and around Hayesville. I think every county in western NC has had some armadillo sightings now. Which county are you in?



Transylvania. Between Rosman and Cashiers.  I live at about 3200 ft. Maybe they won’t make it across the parkway.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 22, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> You will in a few years. We have been seeing a few mounds pop up here and there for the last five years or so. We’re seeing armadillos on a regular basis too.




We brought our quail back, by fighting fire ants. We have a gracious abundance of coyotes and bobcats. We also have a lot of quail again. The coyotes (if that`s what you want to call them) keep the smaller predators of ground nesting birds and their eggs in check. They`ve also just about finished off the dillers around here too. We don`t even practice predator control. You`ve probably seen my deer pictures, and in addition to the return of quail, we have an excellent flock of turkeys too. As do our neighbors on either side. Ya`ll can blame predators all you want, but the only real danger to our quail and young turkeys are hawks and owls. I know because I`m in the woods a lot, and see it happening.

Just my observations in a particular area for about 26 years now.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Predators aren’t going to wipe them out.  But they are a factor in what the grouse population is compared to the glory days. The time period that everyone uses to set the benchmark had a ton of early successional and very little predators. I’m sure there was a time period before the mid 1900’s that had a ton of predators and very little early successional and lower grouse numbers than what we consider the glory days.


I collect all kinds of writings from early Europeans who traveled through the area, and first-hand Cherokee lore. Grouse were very common apparently back in the 1700s and 1800s. They are mentioned frequently as "pheasants." That's what older folks around here still call them. (Grouse are  "pheasants," and quail are "partridges.")

The Indians didn't do predator control, but they durn sure loved to burn the woods every year, apparently. They managed for game habitat. All the earlier stuff you read shows that the landscape in the southeast back when Europeans first arrived was much more open than it is today, mainly due to Indian manipulation. I agree that predators have an effect, but there were plenty of predators around back when grouse were thriving in my younger days, too. I was trapping then, and there was for sure no shortage.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 22, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Transylvania. Between Rosman and Cashiers.  I live at about 3200 ft. Maybe they won’t make it across the parkway.


A buddy of mine who lives near the quarry out at Penrose has them. I'm hoping they won't climb the mountain.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 22, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I collect all kinds of writings from early Europeans who traveled through the area, and first-hand Cherokee lore. Grouse were very common apparently back in the 1700s and 1800s. They are mentioned frequently as "pheasants." That's what older folks around here still call them. (Grouse are  "pheasants," and quail are "partridges.")
> 
> The Indians didn't do predator control, but they durn sure loved to burn the woods every year, apparently. They managed for game habitat. All the earlier stuff you read shows that the landscape in the southeast back when Europeans first arrived was much more open than it is today, mainly due to Indian manipulation. I agree that predators have an effect, but there were plenty of predators around back when grouse were thriving in my younger days, too. I was trapping then, and there was for sure no shortage.



The only reason I’m not calling them pheasants now is because it confuses people on the interwebs ?


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 22, 2020)

Even when there is an area of good habitat, if the areas around are not, the grouse still won't be there. It is like people have said about quail. Islands of good habitat  aren't enough. Disease and predators can take their toll but if there is plenty of good habitat birds can overcome the other factors. The thing that bothers me most is that we have enough public land in the mountains that it could be managed. I know I say this all the time, but when they stopped timber cutting, the habitat disappeared.


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## lagrangedave (Jan 22, 2020)

Armadillos wiped out the fire ants at my place.


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## trad bow (Jan 22, 2020)

Fire ants wreck havoc on quail. I hunted some of the prettiest quail habitat I have seen in a long time today. Plenty of food and cover. My dog found two singles and that was it. Hundreds of fire ant mounds everywhere in this area. Be nice to find something that can be sprayed that doesn’t kill nothing but fire ants.


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## trad bow (Jan 22, 2020)

As far as predators go, this week I’ve caught five male coon within a hundred yards of my house out of just three dp traps. Don’t know where the females are. See more coon tracks that any other.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Jan 22, 2020)

Coon are rutting right now in SC. You will notice alot hit on the roads this time of year. The boars do a whole lot of traveling during the rut. You can get in a good coon race right now and it sounds like a deer chase . Matter of fact I'm fixen to load up right now.


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## herb mcclure (Jan 22, 2020)

Glad to see so much interest in those old mountain pheasants, as NC Hillbilby related. Also, I would like to second what Nicodemus said about hawks and owls, as I too have witnessed this many times happening with wild turkeys. They are our ground-birds worst preditor. 
Gainesville, GA. is considered the chicken capital of the world. With its many grain feed-mills, the pigeons in Gainesville at one time were everywhere in great numbers. Today, there are no pigeons anywhere. All you will see are crows and hawks. The hawks have eradicated the pigeons, but the crows gange-up and defend themselves
Going, back to grouse. I never hear or read of anyone ever relating about how important the galax plant is in a Ruffe Grouse's diet. My old sidekick Arthur Truelove and I, (mainly him) killed hundreds and hundreds of grouse maybe even over a thousand, and we always check their craw to see what they were eating, and galax was always the most often found consistent food item.


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## trad bow (Jan 22, 2020)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Coon are rutting right now in SC. You will notice alot hit on the roads this time of year. The boars do a whole lot of traveling during the rut. You can get in a good coon race right now and it sounds like a deer chase . Matter of fact I'm fixen to load up right now.


I coon hunted most of my life. I mostly just used blueticks. Body to wore out to chase the hounds anymore. Just sticking with my bird dogs now. I can control their range to keep me somewhat close to truck.


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## tucker80 (Jan 22, 2020)

.


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 23, 2020)

Back to the OP...  do any of Georgia’s higher elevations have balsams?  The two places I look for grouse hunting are 5 -15 years old cuts or I go the high country to the balsams. They often grow in a broken timber, scattered fashion filled in with waist high brush including blueberry. I find lot of grouse and woodcock in this type of country.  I know Georgia has some 4,000’+ ridges. That is getting high enough to support some balsam stands but I don’t know if they are there.


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## Resica (Jan 24, 2020)

Habitat and habitat. Also they're saying the west nile virus is having an impact.


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## coachdoug87 (Jan 24, 2020)

Grouse do get infected with West Nile. They have been studying that in states that have large populations. I have read 2 articles recently that said the studies showed that most grouse that get it survive if they were healthy otherwise. I haven't seen any studies in Georgia, but you would think since ours don't have the good food sources etc that if they did get it it would more likely be fatal.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 25, 2020)

NCMTNHunter said:


> Back to the OP...  do any of Georgia’s higher elevations have balsams?  The two places I look for grouse hunting are 5 -15 years old cuts or I go the high country to the balsams. They often grow in a broken timber, scattered fashion filled in with waist high brush including blueberry. I find lot of grouse and woodcock in this type of country.  I know Georgia has some 4,000’+ ridges. That is getting high enough to support some balsam stands but I don’t know if they are there.


No, not really. There are a few in Fannin County, but apparently not anything like the stands in the higher elevations of NC and TN.


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## nrh0011 (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm hoping to get up to the cohutta area and chase them before season closes. If nothing else but for sheer entertainment.


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## Dan DeBord (Jan 29, 2020)

I jumped 3 grouse on Cooper creek WMA  2018   while turkey hunting . All 3 were in the same headwater drainage.


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## Jeffrey o (Jan 31, 2020)

Glad to see this post. I usually don’t post just read and learn. I had read an article about West Nile virus affecting them especially below a certain altitude I think it was 3200 feet


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## Top of Georgia (Feb 2, 2020)

I am so amazed that someone that walks trails in north ga thats sees maybe 50ft on each side can control all 795000 acres of chnf


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## coachdoug87 (Feb 2, 2020)

So much land, but so much of it has become worthless.


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## Top of Georgia (Feb 2, 2020)

Ya to bad you can't buy common sense at walmart i would like to send some people some


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## Pheasant (Feb 17, 2020)

Spring turkey hunters are a good source for grouse scouting. They normally hear them drumming for mates. network with the folks that are hunting turkeys in the Cohuttas or Rich mountain Cherry log etc to see if they are hearing any.


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## coachdoug87 (Feb 17, 2020)

That is true. A friend who turkey hunts sent me a video last year of a grouse strutting around. They definitely act a lot different during the spring.


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