# Jehovah's witness



## PWalls (Jan 28, 2008)

So, near as I can tell, I have never had a visit from one of them. What do they believe or how do their beliefs differ from a traditional Protestant (say Baptist) doctrine/belief?

BTW, I checked my profile and I do not have my address in there so ya'll can't forward it to one of them. I am not requesting a visit. Just kinda interested is all for future debate should the need arise.


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## Branchminnow (Jan 28, 2008)

Ill let some others chime in first.

One thing I do know is that all of them that I have met have never really been rude or challenging to whatever your beliefs were.


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## Randy (Jan 28, 2008)

I worked with one when I was in college.  We stood in the sorting aisle at UPS talking religion all night. 

They do not believe Jesus came.
They believe only a certain number are headed for heaven.
They do not believe God will destroy the world.  They believe one day this will be heaven.
And then of course they believe all those little unimportant things like not celebrating Christmas or birthdays.  They will accept a present but they won't give one.


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

I had two of them show up at my house when I was in High School.  The doorbell rang, so I answered.  There stood a woman and man with a Bible.  They asked if I had a minute and I said sure.  SO they started into their sales pitch and out comes the: "You are going to ************ because only 100,000 are ever going to Heaven and it will only be those who are Jehovah Witnesses." Iasked how many JW there were and she gave out a number (I believe it was around 300,000, this was the late eighties can't remember exactly) and I said so what about the rest of the JW's?  That stumped her a bit and she evaded the question and went back into telling me her bible was the only one and I was going to burn and so on.  

I had been very polite and finally had enough and told her she needed to work on her sale spitch, that it was a bit coarse and started to shut the door.  SHe then aske dif she could come in and use my bathroom.  She said she takes medicine and needed water.  I told her she could get all she wanted from the spigot right there and pointed at the side of the house and closed the door.  That was the ONLY experience I have had with one at my house.

I have had employees that worked for that were members of that Church and all they said was that they did not want to aprticipate in birthday cake "pool" because they did not celebrate it.  But they were some of the best employees I had.  I did not get much into religious conversations, since they were employees and I did not want to "blur" the lines. But they had some of the best work ethics.


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## Randy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'll say this.  If Christians studied their Bible like the JW do, we'd be much better witnesses.

BTW, if you do not want them in your yard put up a No Tressapssing sign.  They know and are taught they can not come in your yard if it is posted.


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## Ulysses (Jan 28, 2008)

Dawg2, you're story surprises me. Along the lines of what Branchminnow says, I've never known one who was pushy or rude about their witnessing...I guess "it takes all kinds," though.

They don't believe that Jesus is God, but rather an "exalted" creature/creation of God's, so I would say that separates them a great deal from any Christian teaching.


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Ulysses said:


> Dawg2, you're story surprises me. Along the lines of what Branchminnow says, I've never known one who was pushy or rude about their witnessing...I guess "it takes all kinds," though.
> 
> They don't believe that Jesus is God, but rather an "exalted" creature/creation of God's, so I would say that separates them a great deal from any Christian teaching.


That was the ONLY time I ever met one at my house.  Maybe she REALLY needed her medicine.

All of the others I have met have been very nice.  I have met some crazy Catholics too...and Baptists


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## cardfan (Jan 28, 2008)

so a "NO TRESSPASSING" sign is like a majical force-field they cannot penetrate...wish it worked on poachers...


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## Sargent (Jan 28, 2008)

Randy said:


> BTW, if you do not want them in your yard put up a No Tressapssing sign.  They know and are taught they can not come in your yard if it is posted.



I find "QUARANTINE" to be much funnier.


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

This one really does work.


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## Branchminnow (Jan 28, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> ...and Baptists


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 28, 2008)

A few more .....

They don't believe in that Jesus is coming again (rapture).

They don't believe theres a hades.

They don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh.

I've had my share of discussions with them.


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## Ulysses (Jan 28, 2008)

Jody Hawk said:


> A few more .....
> 
> They don't believe in that Jesus is coming again (rapture).
> 
> ...



True, true, and true. Whatever they may be, they are not Christians.


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 28, 2008)

The JW's have had to rewrite their entire history/prophecy/theology at least twice.  I mean sit down and rewrite basically everything that the church believes.

I guess you just have to admire a church that can stay flexible with the facts.

According to JW's, the archangel Michael a/k/a Jesus "secretly" returned to earth in 1914 (or 1925, take your pick) and has "secretly" ruled the world since then.  Or at least they claimed that until about 1975 when they had to rewrite their theology again.


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## Tim L (Jan 28, 2008)

Without getting into their beliefs, I have always talked to them because at least the ones that come to our house always have their small children with them.  I'll listen for a second, take the copy of Watchtower, then tell them where I attend church and invite them to a service.  Things get sort of quite then and they don't stay much longer.  Growing up there was a JW family nearby (the dad worked at Ga. Power with my dad) and those folks were as good and wholesome as anything I have ever seen...nothing in the world they wouldn't have done for you; always happy.

I'll say this for the JW's, all of the ones I have met seemed like good, decent moral people that really lived what they preach...I've seen them get cussed, screamed at, and treated like they were the scum of the earth, but they just keep on smiling and knocking on doors. 

Don't get me wrong, I think at best their mixed up and at worse a cult, but the bible does say you should be able to tell christians from the people of the world by the lifes they lead.  And you can tell a JW walking down the street from a mile away.


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## Mako22 (Jan 28, 2008)

I have to come out of isolation for this one as there is some miss information here posted on this topic.

1. They do not believe in h e ll so they would never tell you that you are going there. They believe that all non JW's are going to be anihalated, that is to cease to exist but not go to h e l l.

2. They take Gods promise of 144,000 Jews being saved during the tribulation and apply it to the really good JW's. Those that have attained a certain level of goodness get into heaven.

3. The other JW's will all live here on earth in a sort of "heaven on earth".

To get them to leave and stop talking to you inform them that you have been dissfellowshipped from the Kingdom Hall. They will immedeatly leave and never say another word to you as they are commanded by the cult leadership to not speak to a former member who has been dissfellowshipped. You can also offer them a Gospel tract and inform them that you are a preacher in....well any church other than theirs, they will leave as they consider you an apostate pawn of Satan and can have no dealings with you.

Have a good day!


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## packrat (Jan 28, 2008)

*Welcome Back Kotter*

Welcome Back Kotter, I Mean Carter & Thanks For The Info.


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## SBG (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm a Jehovah witness.


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## Lowjack (Jan 28, 2008)

http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq223.html


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## stev (Jan 28, 2008)

It all boils down to there is only one higher power ,what ever may be.


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## SBG (Jan 28, 2008)

Woodswalker said:


> so, ya gonna vote baptist, catholic, or mormon this go around?




Are there any Catholics running?


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## j_seph (Jan 28, 2008)

Randy said:


> I worked with one when I was in college. We stood in the sorting aisle at UPS talking religion all night.
> 
> They do not believe Jesus came.
> They believe only a certain number are headed for heaven.
> ...


I used to work with one as well.
They do celebrate wedding aniverseries, said the this was the only thing that was done under the sight of god to be celebrated


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## j_seph (Jan 28, 2008)

SBG said:


> I'm a Jehovah witness.


Then start answering some questions


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

SBG said:


> Are there any Catholics running?



The Pope.


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

carters93 said:


> I have to come out of isolation for this one as there is some miss information here posted on this topic.
> 
> 1. They do not believe in h e ll so they would never tell you that you are going there. They believe that all non JW's are going to be anihalated, that is to cease to exist but not go to h e l l.



Welcome back!

Honestly, they did ask my religion, I told them and THEN they did say I was going to h e ll.  I am 99% sure they used that word.  That is why I decided to cut the discussion short.  

Ironically, years  later found out they do NOT believe in ************  so maybe they changed something in their beliefs.  I do not know, but it caught me by surprise. This was in the mid to late eighties.  It was the first time I had ever heard somebody say that and I was a teen at the time.  I have never had one say that who worked for me.  They were ALL really good people.


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## SBG (Jan 28, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> The Pope.





Who's chasing him?


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Osama.


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## PWalls (Jan 28, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Osama.



Nah. Somebody worse. Billy Graham.


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## dawg2 (Jan 28, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Nah. Somebody worse. Billy Graham.



I didn't know Billy could run


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## Twenty five ought six (Jan 28, 2008)

> Are there any Catholics running?



Wait a week.

Romney will be one.


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## SBG (Jan 29, 2008)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Wait a week.
> 
> Romney will be one.





Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.


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## Spotlite (Jan 29, 2008)

Randy said:


> I'll say this.  If Christians studied their Bible like the JW do, we'd be much better witnesses.
> 
> BTW, if you do not want them in your yard put up a No Tressapssing sign.  They know and are taught they can not come in your yard if it is posted.


I agree with that. They are dedicated.


cardfan said:


> so a "NO TRESSPASSING" sign is like a majical force-field they cannot penetrate...wish it worked on poachers...


No, they are respectful and taught that. I have met FEW that are pushy and will not accept no for an answer, but we cant hold that against them, we will and would do the same.............................we do have a "debate forum"

Their beliefs, Randy covered most, no Holidays celebrations, Jesus was basically a good man, Heaven is right here, he!! does not exist. I was also told by one that Jesus had no power over satan, I closed my ears at that point.

I always viewed them as having a form of righteousness but denying the power therein.


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## Branchminnow (Jan 29, 2008)

I guess one reason they are not pushy with me is...well when I explain that Im a feetwashing,country Baptist they usually get ready to go, and are very polite, I guess we have a bad reputation or maybe we are just thought of ..as..crazy?


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## Ulysses (Jan 29, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> I guess one reason they are not pushy with me is...well when I explain that Im a feetwashing,country Baptist they usually get ready to go, and are very polite, I guess we have a bad reputation or maybe we are just thought of ..as..crazy?



Where is your rifle when you're telling them this?


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## Branchminnow (Jan 29, 2008)

Ulysses said:


> Where is your rifle when you're telling them this?



Kinda funny this thread got brought up........i have not been visited in several months by the JW's. well I went home for lunch and what happens....a car load pulls up in the yard. Pretty young lady steps out of the car and says "hello Mr. ......" And I thought who is this girl I ve never seen her before in my life and she knows me....i wonder if they have a spy on Woody's? I still have not figured out how she knew my name

Anyway it was buisiness as usual nice talk she offered the literature I refused told I was a King James Thumper....she smiled and said thank you and left. 

Again always polite when they come in the yard.


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## Branchminnow (Jan 29, 2008)

Ulysses said:


> Where is your rifle when you're telling them this?



Actually now that you mention it the last time I did have my bow out....................


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 29, 2008)

carters93 said:


> I have to come out of isolation for this one as there is some miss information here posted on this topic.
> 
> 1. They do not believe in h e ll so they would never tell you that you are going there. They believe that all non JW's are going to be anihalated, that is to cease to exist but not go to h e l l.
> 
> ...



My understanding as well.They also don't salute or say pledge of alligance to the flag,they don't believe in steeples.


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## Mako22 (Jan 29, 2008)

packrat said:


> Welcome Back Kotter, I Mean Carter & Thanks For The Info.



Very funny!


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## Mako22 (Jan 29, 2008)

SBG said:


> I'm a Jehovah witness.



I am too!
I have told the JW's that I am a Jehovahs Witness, a witness for Jesus who is Jehovah on several occasions and they have assured me that I am not. They don't like the part where I tell them Jesus is Jehovah.


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## Mako22 (Jan 29, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> Honestly, they did ask my religion, I told them and THEN they did say I was going to h e ll.  I am 99% sure they used that word.  That is why I decided to cut the discussion short.
> 
> Ironically, years  later found out they do NOT believe in ************  so maybe they changed something in their beliefs.  I do not know, but it caught me by surprise. This was in the mid to late eighties.  It was the first time I had ever heard somebody say that and I was a teen at the time.  I have never had one say that who worked for me.  They were ALL really good people.



A. It may have been a tactic to engage you in debate. They are very good debaters but only in the realm of the scriptures they are programmed to memorize. If you can get them off trac they become confussed and angry.

B. Or you may have missheard them and they really meant you would be anihalated.

C. Now back to my isolation cell, goodbye.


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## dawg2 (Jan 29, 2008)

carters93 said:


> C. Now back to my isolation cell, goodbye.



Get back over here!


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## Ulysses (Jan 29, 2008)

carters93 said:


> I am too!
> I have told the JW's that I am a Jehovahs Witness, a witness for Jesus who is Jehovah on several occasions and they have assured me that I am not. They don't like the part where I tell them Jesus is Jehovah.



Nice one. Yeah, I'm sure that didn't sit too well.


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## josh chatham (Jan 30, 2008)

stev said:


> It all boils down to there is only one higher power ,what ever may be.



it does matter bc if it was all just about there being a higher power then every religion would be right and they are NOT!!!!  I know that makes me sound like a bigot but that is what i believe!!


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## Paymaster (Jan 30, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> I guess one reason they are not pushy with me is...well when I explain that Im a feetwashing,country Baptist they usually get ready to go, and are very polite, I guess we have a bad reputation or maybe we are just thought of ..as..crazy?



The only ones that I spoke to at my home left when I told them that I was a deacon in a Footwashing Baptist Church and if they wanted to come in and have prayer they were welcome.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Jan 30, 2008)

Paymaster said:


> The only ones that I spoke to at my home left when I told them that I was a deacon in a Footwashing Baptist Church and if they wanted to come in and have prayer they were welcome.


Same here.


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## Ulysses (Jan 30, 2008)

josh chatham said:


> it does matter bc if it was all just about there being a higher power then every religion would be right and they are NOT!!!!  I know that makes me sound like a bigot but that is what i believe!!



Being a bigot means being *unfairly* biased against
 someone, or discriminating against them for no good reason.

Standing for the truth does not make you a bigot.


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 30, 2008)

Ulysses said:


> Being a bigot means being *unfairly* biased against
> someone, or discriminating against them for no good reason.
> 
> Standing for the truth does not make you a bigot.


 

Sad to say the "world" would say that standing for the truth is most of the time being a "bigot".

I have been called worse though...

DB BB


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## Ulysses (Jan 30, 2008)

Could one of you guys tell me what a "Footwashing Baptist Church" is? How is it different from any Baptist Church?


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## toddboucher (Jan 30, 2008)

I alway tell all the cults JW, mormons, or whoever come in, only if I get equal time. 
here is some great information:
http://www.john-lee-ministries.org/The_Watchtower_and_The_Trinity_Page.html


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## dawg2 (Jan 30, 2008)

Ulysses said:


> Could one of you guys tell me what a "Footwashing Baptist Church" is? How is it different from any Baptist Church?



They have cleaner feet.


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## Nugefan (Jan 30, 2008)

My Dad ws a deputy in 1975 and got shot , some JW came to visit him at the hospital and told him he would go to ************ for taking someone elses blood ....

Daddy just looked at em and said " I'd have been there a lot sooner if I hadn't of taken it ."...

they left the hospital room ....


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## Ulysses (Jan 30, 2008)

Nugefan said:


> My Dad ws a deputy in 1975 and got shot , some JW came to visit him at the hospital and told him he would go to ************ for taking someone elses blood ....
> 
> Daddy just looked at em and said " I'd have been there a lot sooner if I hadn't of taken it ."...
> 
> they left the hospital room ....


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## dawg2 (Jan 30, 2008)

Nugefan said:


> My Dad ws a deputy in 1975 and got shot , some JW came to visit him at the hospital and told him he would go to ************ for taking someone elses blood ....
> 
> Daddy just looked at em and said " I'd have been there a lot sooner if I hadn't of taken it ."...
> 
> they left the hospital room ....


That is funny


I have heard they don't believe in ************ but I am telling you they said that to me back in the 80's.  They must have changed their beliefs or something.


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## Branchminnow (Feb 1, 2008)

Nugefan said:


> My Dad ws a deputy in 1975 and got shot , some JW came to visit him at the hospital and told him he would go to ************ for taking someone elses blood ....
> 
> Daddy just looked at em and said " I'd have been there a lot sooner if I hadn't of taken it ."...
> 
> they left the hospital room ....


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## southwoodshunter (Feb 1, 2008)

*JW convert*

I have a relative that shall remain nameless, as we don't talk that often.. But she decided in the past 2 years that she wants to be a JW, 
Well she grew up baptist...
When I asked her why she decided to do that... she said well, I would like to learn as much about all the religions before I die.. I quickly replied... Well, why don't you start with Baptist cos I am sure you don't know all their is to know about being a baptist..
She had no answer... I am figuring she is just gullable & easily led.

If we go out to eat, before we even have a chance to bow our heads, she will say.. I am going to pray over my food, you don't have to if you don't want... 
and she does like to get a gift, but won't give one... not even to her own mama.. doesn't sound very christian to me?? I may be wrong.. but it doesn't seem like it.


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## dawg2 (Feb 1, 2008)

southwoodshunter said:


> I have a relative that shall remain nameless, as we don't talk that often.. But she decided in the past 2 years that she wants to be a JW,
> Well she grew up baptist...
> When I asked her why she decided to do that... she said well, I would like to learn as much about all the religions before I die.. I quickly replied... Well, why don't you start with Baptist cos I am sure you don't know all their is to know about being a baptist..
> She had no answer... I am figuring she is just gullable & easily led.
> ...



I never understood why they will take a gift but not give one.  I keep hearing that...


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## PWalls (Feb 1, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I never understood why they will take a gift but not give one.  I keep hearing that...



It is better to "receive" than to "give" maybe?


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## dawg2 (Feb 1, 2008)

PWalls said:


> It is better to "receive" than to "give" maybe?


hmmmm....maybe  ...I wish there was one in this forum that could answer some questions...


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## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> hmmmm....maybe  ...I wish there was one in this forum that could answer some questions...



There is , and most know I am a witness. Definitly not ashamed of the fact. We try to led morally clean lives, stay out of the politics of the world, and focus on God's kingdom as the solution to all problems. WE go to great lenghts to help people learn the bible, and have to under go a lot of abuse to do so. These are the same things that Jesus Christ , our savior had to undergo, and eventually the regious leaders of his day had him killed.90% of what has been said in this thread is false. If you want to know what a person believes ask him, not his nieghbor. I will always be glad to answer any real questions. Feel free to PM me.


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## Branchminnow (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> There is , and most know I am a witness. Definitly not ashamed of the fact. We try to led morally clean lives, stay out of the politics of the world, and focus on God's kingdom as the solution to all problems. WE go to great lenghts to help people learn the bible, and have to under go a lot of abuse to do so. These are the same things that Jesus Christ , our savior had to undergo, and eventually the regious leaders of his day had him killed.90% of what has been said in this thread is false. If you want to know what a person believes ask him, not his nieghbor. I will always be glad to answer any real questions. Feel free to PM me.



Why use a pm? Most folks here are willing to share their beliefs openly. And factually most of what has been said here is correct. According to actual counts by their own admission of JW's coming to their house.
now if Im wrong then please elaborate..............


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## Nugefan (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> There is , and most know I am a witness. Definitly not ashamed of the fact. We try to led morally clean lives, stay out of the politics of the world, and focus on God's kingdom as the solution to all problems. WE go to great lenghts to help people learn the bible, and have to under go a lot of abuse to do so. These are the same things that Jesus Christ , our savior had to undergo, and eventually the regious leaders of his day had him killed.90% of what has been said in this thread is false. If you want to know what a person believes ask him, not his nieghbor. I will always be glad to answer any real questions. Feel free to PM me.



not trying to step on toes at all , like said above these were actual experiences ....


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 2, 2008)

I do know that in John 20:28 where Thomas said "My Lord and my god!" Jehovah Witnesses believe that Thomas was only blurting out an exclamation.... as we would say "Oh My God!".   lol    

They have to believe this since they do not believe Jesus was ever referred to as "THE God"   ('ho theos' in the greek)   Their own Greek Interlinear bible has Thomas' words as
"The Lord of me and the God of me"     Pretty straight forward.    Jesus commended Thomas for what he believed.

I guess when you've got beliefs to defend you'll twist any scripture...

Bandy


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## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Why use a pm? Most folks here are willing to share their beliefs openly. And factually most of what has been said here is correct. According to actual counts by their own admission of JW's coming to their house.
> now if Im wrong then please elaborate..............



No PM needed on my part. Sad to say that in open forums like this most do not discuss ideas they make accusastions and insults all in the name of Christianity. SAD. SO PM's give people a chance to ask questions without being pounded by these so called Christians. What they don't want is people to have a chance to make up there own minds by looking at the bible in an objective way.

LIke I said I will answer any with real questions, and it is obivous when that is the case, but if you want to throw insults I have better things to do. Jesus in his trail and execution did not reply to all the acusastions hurled at him. No point


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## sbrown (May 2, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Why use a pm? Most folks here are willing to share their beliefs openly. And factually most of what has been said here is correct. According to actual counts by their own admission of JW's coming to their house.
> now if Im wrong then please elaborate..............



Wow, actual accouts by their own admission?  Maybe he was not discounting what someone was claiming but  was  saying that the stated beliefs (religious) on here about JW's  were incorrect. The POSSIBLE reason he may prefer to use a PM is that most people are not searching for real answers when it comes to religion but rather just like to argue or poke fun as can be seen by several of the post on here.


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 2, 2008)

also....

In 1968 the Watchtower Society predicted that in 1975 the millennial reign of Christ would begin.    "August 15, 1968 WATCHTOWER page 494"  titled "Why are you looking forward to 1975?"    In this article they lay out why 1975 would see the start of Christ's millennial reign, and stated that this would occur "in the fall of 1975" and that there would only be a difference of "weeks or months, not years".  The Watchtower Society swept this under the rug after 1975's failed prophecy and blamed "overzealous members" for reading things into the article.    

A quick Google search for "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" will give any unbiased reader the article to read.

Bandy


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## Branchminnow (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> No PM needed on my part. Sad to say that in open forums like this most do not discuss ideas they make accusastions and insults all in the name of Christianity. SAD. SO PM's give people a chance to ask questions without being pounded by these so called Christians. What they don't want is people to have a chance to make up there own minds by looking at the bible in an objective way.
> 
> LIke I said I will answer any with real questions, and it is obivous when that is the case, but if you want to throw insults I have better things to do. Jesus in his trail and execution did not reply to all the acusastions hurled at him. No point



I did not think I insulted you just made a comment. If I did Sorry it was not my intention. Just to debate what you said were falsehoods, no problem here. If you dont want to openly discuss........thats certainly your choice. But there will always be doubters no matter who or what is being discussed unless the truth comes out.


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## Branchminnow (May 2, 2008)

sbrown said:


> Wow, actual accouts by their own admission?  Maybe he was not discounting what someone was claiming but  was  saying that the stated beliefs (religious) on here about JW's  were incorrect. The POSSIBLE reason he may prefer to use a PM is that most people are not searching for real answers when it comes to religion but rather just like to argue or poke fun as can be seen by several of the post on here.



mAybe he oughta be a little more clear in what he is trying to say????

Poking fun was not my intention, and if PEOPLE will read the post that i had already posted.....well it would be clear that Ive said that I ve disagreed with them on their beliefs but they have never been rude or pushy towards me.


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## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I had two of them show up at my house when I was in High School.  The doorbell rang, so I answered.  There stood a woman and man with a Bible.  They asked if I had a minute and I said sure.  SO they started into their sales pitch and out comes the: "You are going to ************ because only 100,000 are ever going to Heaven and it will only be those who are Jehovah Witnesses." Iasked how many JW there were and she gave out a number (I believe it was around 300,000, this was the late eighties can't remember exactly) and I said so what about the rest of the JW's?  That stumped her a bit and she evaded the question and went back into telling me her bible was the only one and I was going to burn and so on.
> 
> I had been very polite and finally had enough and told her she needed to work on her sale spitch, that it was a bit coarse and started to shut the door.  SHe then aske dif she could come in and use my bathroom.  She said she takes medicine and needed water.  I told her she could get all she wanted from the spigot right there and pointed at the side of the house and closed the door.  That was the ONLY experience I have had with one at my house.
> 
> I have had employees that worked for that were members of that Church and all they said was that they did not want to aprticipate in birthday cake "pool" because they did not celebrate it.  But they were some of the best employees I had.  I did not get much into religious conversations, since they were employees and I did not want to "blur" the lines. But they had some of the best work ethics.





DartonHunter101 said:


> There is , and most know I am a witness. Definitly not ashamed of the fact. We try to led morally clean lives, stay out of the politics of the world, and focus on God's kingdom as the solution to all problems. WE go to great lenghts to help people learn the bible, and have to under go a lot of abuse to do so. These are the same things that Jesus Christ , our savior had to undergo, and eventually the regious leaders of his day had him killed.90% of what has been said in this thread is false. If you want to know what a person believes ask him, not his nieghbor. I will always be glad to answer any real questions. Feel free to PM me.




I was hoping someone would join in.  Welcome!  But in all seriousness, has something change since the 80's?  I thought it odd to win converts by prefacing a conversation that I was going to h e l l (pretty sure she said that) or wherever.  SHe even had a pamphlet showing an army of JW's going to heaven with a multitude of people below it wailing in aguish.  Caught me off guard.

Sorry, I did not read pg 2 until now, and did not realize it was getting so sticky.  But I really would like to hear about JW's.


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

sbrown said:


> Wow, actual accouts by their own admission?  Maybe he was not discounting what someone was claiming but  was  saying that the stated beliefs (religious) on here about JW's  were incorrect. The POSSIBLE reason he may prefer to use a PM is that most people are not searching for real answers when it comes to religion but rather just like to argue or poke fun as can be seen by several of the post on here.



Are you Catholic?  If not you have NO idea about being argued with or poked fun at.  Trust me when I say I do


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I was hoping someone would join in.  Welcome!  But in all seriousness, has something change since the 80's?  I thought it odd to win converts by prefacing a conversation that I was going to h e l l (pretty sure she said that) or wherever.  SHe even had a pamphlet showing an army of JW's going to heaven with a multitude of people below it wailing in aguish.  Caught me off guard.
> 
> Sorry, I did not read pg 2 until now, and did not realize it was getting so sticky.  But I really would like to hear about JW's.




No nothing about H ell has changed for 80 years. In the KJV of the bible  H ell is translated  from 2 words : SHeol,& Hades. It is translated  different in different places.   It is sometimes translate has the grave, the pit, or h ELL. We believe when you die you die that is it, unless you are resurrected.  Look at this verse in Ecc 9: 5, 10
“The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all .Edited to Remove Profanity ----.Edited to Remove Profanity ----. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.”


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> No nothing about H ell has changed for 80 years. In the KJV of the bible Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- is translated from 2 words : SHeol,& Hades. It is translated  different in different places.   It is sometimes translate has the grave, the pit, or h ELL. We believe when you die you die that is it, unless you are resurrected.  Look at this verse in Ecc 9: 5, 10
> “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all .Edited to Remove Profanity ----.Edited to Remove Profanity ----. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.”




So it is a matter of understanding the context.  

Is that standard practice though to condemn like that or is it different now?  (not provoking, just asking a serious question).  I have not had any JW's at my house in 20+ years.


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

j_seph said:


> I used to work with one as well.
> They do celebrate wedding aniverseries, said the this was the only thing that was done under the sight of god to be celebrated



We do celebrate wedding aniverseries like you said.
The reason we don't participate in holidays is because of the pagan history behind them. The holidays are rooted in tons of pagan rituals, and that is where we think god would disapprove.   That is the scoop


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> We do celebrate wedding aniverseries like you said.
> The reason we don't participate in holidays is because of the pagan history behind them. The holidays are rooted in tons of pagan rituals, and that is where we think god would disapprove.   That is the scoop



A birthday would be considered pagan as well?


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> So it is a matter of understanding the context.
> 
> Is that standard practice though to condemn like that or is it different now?  (not provoking, just asking a serious question).  I have not had any JW's at my house in 20+ years.



Absolutly not. WE never believed in H ell .how could we condem anyone to go there. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.  Our message is strong but should always be respectful. Not sure.


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> A birthday would be considered pagan as well?



Yes research the history on birthdays. Only pagans celebrate birthdays up until the 3-4th century when it was slowly merged into "Christianity" just has Jesus & Paul had foretold would happen to God's message.


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Absolutly not. WE never believed in H ell .how could we condem anyone to go there. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.  Our message is strong but should always be respectful. Not sure.



Thanks for the answer.


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

Woodswalker said:


> let me add additional words to the discussion. Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books of the Bible, for sure.
> 
> the JW that have visited me have been nothing but polite, friendly, and very serious in their approach. i recognize that, and i appreciate that.
> 
> ...


Maybe LOL WE all going to need that firewood soon with gas going up.


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

Woodswalker said:


> let me add additional words to the discussion. Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books of the Bible, for sure.
> 
> the JW that have visited me have been nothing but polite, friendly, and very serious in their approach. i recognize that, and i appreciate that.
> 
> ...



How do you come up with this stuff?


----------



## dawg2 (May 2, 2008)

Woodswalker said:


> it's easy to remember the truth. remembering stuff that ain't true is so much more complex.



You are so right on that one.  Much easier to keep up with the truth, which is where like to stay


----------



## Spotlite (May 2, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Absolutly not. WE never believed in H ell .how could we condem anyone to go there. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.  Our message is strong but should always be respectful. Not sure.



we dont condem them there. their way of life determines that.

what do you do about all the scriptures that decribe the hot place? what is the lake of fire?

I might be wrong, but you also dont believe in heaven either as far as the way the Bible describes it. I had a JW boldly tell me "there aint no streets of gold, there are no mansions, there are no gates of pearl, its all a bliss"  

In all honesty though, I dont care if there are no streets paved with gold, Im good with a dirt road as long as Im there.

But could you be more specific as to the JW stance on Heaven? Ive been told by a JW that this is Heaven, its just what you make of it basically, but I know all to well better than that.


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 2, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> we dont condem them there. their way of life determines that.
> 
> what do you do about all the scriptures that decribe the hot place? what is the lake of fire?
> 
> ...



Hey spotlite! Well this is definitly not heaven.Heaven is  dwelling place of Jehovah God and of faithful spirit creatures; a realm invisible to human eyes. No need for streets of gold, because it is a place for spiritual creatures not flesh & blood creatures. There is a heaven, but only a 144,000 go there. The rest, which make up the Great Crowd will live here on earth after Armageddon. Here are a few basic lines of reasoning and scriptures          
1.Do all good people go to heaven?
Acts 2:34: "David (whom the Bible refers to as being a man agreeable to Jehovah’s heart) did not ascend to the heavens."
Matt. 11:11: "Truly I say to you people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." So if John The Baptist did not go to heaven when he died who will go?

If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?
Gen. 1:26: "God went on to say: Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.’” So, God’s purpose for Adam was that he be caretaker of the earth and of the animal life there. Nothing is said about his going to heaven. Tie that in with
Gen. 2:16,Edited to Remove Profanity ----17: “Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” It was not Jehovah’s original purpose for man someday to die. God’s command here quoted shows that he warned against the course that would lead to death. Death was to be punishment for disobedience, not the doorway to a better life in heaven. Obedience would have been rewarded by continued life, eternal life, in the Paradise that God had given to man right here on Earth.

Look what Jesus taught on the Sermon of the mount
Matt. 5:5: “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.” ( not heaven?)

He went on to teach his disciples to pray  for God's Kingdom to come to earth
Matt 6: 9Edited to Remove Profanity ----"YOU must pray, then, this way:

"Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10Edited to Remove Profanity ----Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth

The earth is a major part of God's plan, but one's will go to heaven for a reason, just not everyone.

If you look at ALL the scriptures you have to definitly agree there are two different hopes. Not everyone will get the same reward?


----------



## SBG (May 3, 2008)

southwoodshunter said:


> I have a relative that shall remain nameless, as we don't talk that often.. But she decided in the past 2 years that she wants to be a JW,
> Well she grew up baptist...




I had an uncle that did the same thing. He claims that he was raised Baptist, but in actuality he was an Easter, Mother's Day, and Christmas Baptist. He was never born again, and therefore did not have the unction of the Holy Spirit to lead him. Some of the other family members were able to show him how the JW's have been so wrong on their prophetic statements, and he has disassociated himself from them.


----------



## whitworth (May 3, 2008)

*I've seen them over fifty years*

One time I told one that as a former race track bettor, I didn't like their odds on salvation.  

I heard their turn-over rate is high, and they need to keep recruiting the next tithe giver.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 3, 2008)

whitworth said:


> One time I told one that as a former race track bettor, I didn't like their odds on salvation.
> 
> I heard their turn-over rate is high, and they need to keep recruiting the next tithe giver.



We don't preach tithing, so you must be confused.WE don't pass a plate around to pressure people to give money. We build our own buildings and no one is paid.Cost are keep to a minimum.There are no paid preachers or fat cats driving limos and fleecing the flock. Money is never an issue. We are poor and going stay poor, after all Jesus had no where to lay his head.
 I think turn over rate is around 1%. Is that high?


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 3, 2008)

There was an article last fall on hunting entitled:
How should a Christian view hunting and fishing?
 Basically said 
The Bible does not condemn hunting or fishing. (Deuteronomy 14:4, 5, 9, 20; Matthew 17:27; John 21:6) Still, Christians who hunt or fish need to consider several Scriptural principles.

God permitted Noah and his descendants to kill and eat animals, provided they bled the animals before eating them. (Genesis 9:3, 4) This directive emphasized that animal life should be respected as having originated with God. Thus, Christians do not kill animals merely for sport or for fun and with wanton disregard for life.—Proverbs 12:10.

WE are like any religion and have people from all walks of life with different prejudices, and I am positive some would not hunt. It is an individual choice.I love bowhunting. Gives  me a chance to get closer to God's creation!


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## tcward (May 3, 2008)

Bottom line---JOHN 3:16!


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## Spotlite (May 4, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Hey spotlite! Well this is definitly not heaven.Heaven is  dwelling place of Jehovah God and of faithful spirit creatures; a realm invisible to human eyes. No need for streets of gold, because it is a place for spiritual creatures not flesh & blood creatures. There is a heaven, but only a 144,000 go there. The rest, which make up the Great Crowd will live here on earth after Armageddon. Here are a few basic lines of reasoning and scriptures
> 1.Do all good people go to heaven?
> Acts 2:34: "David (whom the Bible refers to as being a man agreeable to Jehovah’s heart) did not ascend to the heavens."
> Matt. 11:11: "Truly I say to you people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." So if John The Baptist did not go to heaven when he died who will go?
> ...



Thanks for the reply Darton, I will call you though on the 144,000 going to Heaven, thats not scripture, the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel after the Rapture of the Church that makes it through trib. The Church is already gone at that time.

What are the JWs plans when this earth melts away according to scripture?

Are you laying up your treasures in Heaven, or earth?


----------



## DartonHunter101 (May 4, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> Thanks for the reply Darton, I will call you though on the 144,000 going to Heaven, thats not scripture, the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel after the Rapture of the Church that makes it through trib. The Church is already gone at that time.
> 
> What are the JWs plans when this earth melts away according to scripture?
> 
> Are you laying up your treasures in Heaven, or earth?



1.Why would you think the earth is going to melt away? Take all the scriptures concerning the earth and give me reason to believe it is going to be burned up. Not just one or two but all scriptures concerning the earth, because if the scriptures are perfect they should all be in agreement.

2. So who do you believe the 144,000 are and when do they go to heaven?


----------



## Spotlite (May 4, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> 1.Why would you think the earth is going to melt away? Take all the scriptures concerning the earth and give me reason to believe it is going to be burned up. Not just one or two but all scriptures concerning the earth, because if the scriptures are perfect they should all be in agreement.
> 
> 2. So who do you believe the 144,000 are and when do they go to heaven?



1. 2 Peter 3 vs 10. 

2. The 144,000 are the tribes of Israel that come out of great trib found in Revelation 7, the trib is after the rapture of the Church, the rapture of the Church is found in 1st Thess. 4 vs 16 and 17, there are no numbers for amount of people given for that event in Thess.


Read more in Daniel about the antichrist and events to follow, the Jews will be allowed to make sacrifices once again and turn to Jesus, the gentile dispensation is over at that time, those 144,000 are the ones that refused to take the mark of the beast and are slain. 

So you have a choice, plan on staying here that will be destroyed by fire, probably during the trib and fight your way through trib long enough to reject the mark and be slain, or make the Rapture and be in that group thats caught up to meet the Lord in the air.


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## Branchminnow (May 5, 2008)

whitworth said:


> One time I told one that as a former race track bettor, I didn't like their odds on salvation.
> 
> I heard their turn-over rate is high, and they need to keep recruiting the next tithe giver.


----------



## Branchminnow (May 5, 2008)

I respectfully...........disagree


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 5, 2008)

Job and his family celebrated birthdays....

Job and his sons came together on "their days" and on Jobs 'day' he said, "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived".   Obviously he was celebrating a birthday.   

Rebuttal?   Or is it 'Pearls before Swine'?

Bandy


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 5, 2008)

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Bandy


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 5, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> 2. So who do you believe the 144,000 are and when do they go to heaven?



Did 1925 see the last of the 144,000 born?   What is the new count now?   How many of the last of the 144000 are still alive today?   Last I heard (about 20 years ago) there were only about 8000 left that were dying off like flies.   Surely they are about all gone?    

Bandy


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## DartonHunter101 (May 5, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> 1. 2 Peter 3 vs 10.
> 
> 2. The 144,000 are the tribes of Israel that come out of great trib found in Revelation 7, the trib is after the rapture of the Church, the rapture of the Church is found in 1st Thess. 4 vs 16 and 17, there are no numbers for amount of people given for that event in Thess.
> 
> ...



Earth- lets take all the information in the bible concerning the earth and see if it fits what you are saying and what you say was said in  2 Pet.

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

Isa. 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”

 Proverbs 2:21 For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.

Now lets look at the scripture you quoted in 2 Pet 3:10
Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.


NOTICE Peter said the heavens also, so does that leave heaven destory also? Where will you go then? How does that agree with the rest of the Bible ? 


Now Have the 144,000 gone to heaven already or in the future?


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## BANDERSNATCH (May 5, 2008)

Jehovah's Witnesses (and no, I'm not an ex JW) believe that the 144000  have been scattered through time from now back to Jesus' time.    They believe that all the remaining 144000 (less than  5000-6000 now) are alive today and no more would be born after 1925 (I believe that is the date)   It doesn't take a wizard to figure out that these people are very old now and are dying off fast.   They will have to adjust the date, if they haven't already, to accommodate the die off.    

Several years ago I was studying with a witness and was receiving their 'Awake' magazine.   On page 4 of every issue they stated "this magazine serves to build confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away".   LOL   I 'prophecied' to the witness at the end of our talks that their "board" would change that soon...since obviously that generation is thin.    It wasn't 3 months later that they did!    Now it says something like "peaceful and secure new world before this wicked system of things passes away".   I asked him what the reason was and he just said that "no one should put a date on things" blah blah.    When you belong to God's Theocratic organization on earth then what they say goes!!!   LOL    

Another good read of theirs is "Is there a Prophet among us?"    This article states clearly that the Watchtower speaks for Jehovah.   

Enough said.

Bandy


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## Spotlite (May 5, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> I respectfully...........disagree



with what..........


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## Spotlite (May 5, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Now lets look at the scripture you quoted in 2 Pet 3:10
> Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.



No, 2 Peter 3 vs 10 says
" But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt away with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up"

Thats the difference in KJV and something that left some important info out.


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## Branchminnow (May 5, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> with what..........



Does it matter???? I said RESPECTFULLY disagree.


BTW you know me you know what I am....so what do you think I disagree with?


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## Spotlite (May 5, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> Does it matter???? I said RESPECTFULLY disagree.
> 
> 
> BTW you know me you know what I am....so what do you think I disagree with?



Randy, SBG
OK, I give up...............respectfully


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## Branchminnow (May 5, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> Randy, SBG
> OK, I give up...............respectfully



Lets just go to lunch and i will tell you there or better yet just pm me......


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## dawg2 (May 5, 2008)

Branchminnow said:


> BTW you know me you know what I am....



I don't think I can type it on this forum.


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## Branchminnow (May 5, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I don't think I can type it on this forum.


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## Toddmann (May 5, 2008)

Next time a JW shows up at ur door just ask them in and pull out ur bible and start reading to them about the Holy Spirit and see what happens.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 5, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> No, 2 Peter 3 vs 10 says
> " But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt away with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up"
> 
> Thats the difference in KJV and something that left some important info out.



That is the important part. "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt away with fervent heat" If that is literal and heaven is burned up where will you go? It says the same for heaven as earth


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## SBG (May 5, 2008)

There are two different heavens.


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## dawg2 (May 5, 2008)

SBG said:


> There are two different heavens.



Enlighten me on that.


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## SBG (May 5, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Enlighten me on that.



There are the heavens, which is referring to the atmosphere surrounding the Earth and probably including space, and there is Heaven where God resides.


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## dawg2 (May 5, 2008)

SBG said:


> There are the heavens, which is referring to the atmosphere surrounding the Earth and probably including space, and there is Heaven where God resides.



Just running a sanity check.


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## SBG (May 5, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Just running a sanity check.



The Apostle Paul actually refers to three heavens. Of course it is a matter of interpretation, but I believe that Paul was counting, the atmosphere, outer space, and the abode of God where he was "caught up" in 2nd Corinthians 12.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 5, 2008)

Spotlite said:


> No, 2 Peter 3 vs 10 says
> " But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt away with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up"
> 
> Thats the difference in KJV and something that left some important info out.



Look at V13
13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

So is god going to build a new earth? A new heavens? Because this is what Peter said they where waiting on. To me it is clear that Peter does not hold to the heavens only theory. Just my .02


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## Toddmann (May 6, 2008)

I would like for a JW to please explain all that scripture on the HOLY SPIRIT.  
u know like Psalm 51:11 / Isaiah 63:10 / Matt 3:11 / John 14:26 and so many more.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 6, 2008)

Toddmann said:


> I would like for a JW to please explain all that scripture on the HOLY SPIRIT.
> u know like Psalm 51:11 / Isaiah 63:10 / Matt 3:11 / John 14:26 and so many more.



What do you mean? Does it exist? Yes.  Is it real? Yes. Is it a part of Trinity. NO
Not sure what you mean.


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## Toddmann (May 6, 2008)

Trinity. Who said anything about Trinity. But since u brought it up, Now the word Trinity itself is not in the Word but are u talking about, (The Father{GOD} and the Son{JESUS} and the HOLY SPIRIT{GOD's Holy Presence}) that Trinity? Matt. 28:19! DartonHunter are you filled with the HOLY SPIRIT? Do you believe you can be Baptized in the name of JESUS and receive the HOLY SPIRIT as is clearly taught in my Bible? Do u believe that Jesus (The Son) is the door and the only way to the Father (GOD)? John 10: 7-9. Rev. 3:20.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 6, 2008)

Toddmann said:


> Trinity. Who said anything about Trinity. But since u brought it up, Now the word Trinity itself is not in the Word but are u talking about, (The Father{GOD} and the Son{JESUS} and the HOLY SPIRIT{GOD's Holy Presence}) that Trinity? Matt. 28:19! DartonHunter are you filled with the HOLY SPIRIT? Do you believe you can be Baptized in the name of JESUS and receive the HOLY SPIRIT as is clearly taught in my Bible? Do u believe that Jesus (The Son) is the door and the only way to the Father (GOD)? John 10: 7-9. Rev. 3:20.



I don't believe in Trinity. Trinity has a lot of history rooted in pagan whorship and for me doesn't agree with the scriptures.
Everyone that is a Baptized Jehovah's Witness is baptized in the name of the father, Son, and Holy spirit. 
John 14 : 15-16 says that if you observe Jesus commandments he will sent a helper, Gods Spirit.
If you have the holy spirit you will produce certain fruitage.
Gal. 5:22, 23: “The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.”  It is this fruitage, rather than outbursts of religious fervor, that one should look for when seeking to find people who truly have God’s spirit in my opinion.

Of course Jesus is the only way we can approach God. With out Jesus's sacrifice there would be no hope for salvation.

This is what I believe is taught in the scriptures and we each have to investigate for ourselfs , and make our own decisions.


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## Toddmann (May 6, 2008)

Darton it was nice talking with u. I just hope u have made Jesus ur personal Lord and Savior and are following the Holy Spirit to interpret the Word for u and not some religious cult doctrine.  PTL.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

Toddmann said:


> Darton it was nice talking with u. I just hope u have made Jesus ur personal Lord and Savior and are following the Holy Spirit to interpret the Word for u and not some religious cult doctrine.  PTL.



Accepting Jesus as you savior means more than just believing. It means exercising that belief into action to imitate Jesus life and purpose, which that is the goal of every Jehovah's Witness. Take Care


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## SBG (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Accepting Jesus as you savior means more than just believing. It means exercising that belief into action to imitate Jesus life and purpose, which that is the goal of every Jehovah's Witness. Take Care



Darton, What is the JW's position on drinking alcoholic beverages?


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

SBG said:


> Darton, What is the JW's position on drinking alcoholic beverages?



Nothing wrong with drinking in moderation


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## Branchminnow (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Nothing wrong with drinking in moderation


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## SBG (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Nothing wrong with drinking in moderation



Can you define moderation, scripturally?


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

SBG said:


> Can you define moderation, scripturally?



When you become drunk or develop a dependency on alcohol 
1Cor 6 shows God's disapproval of drunkness
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 
Titus 2 talks about being enslaved to wine
3 Likewise let the aged women be reverent in behavior, not slanderous, neither enslaved to a lot of wine, teachers of what is good;


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## SBG (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> When you become drunk or develop a dependency on alcohol
> 1Cor 6 shows God's disapproval of drunkness
> 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.
> Titus 2 talks about being enslaved to wine
> 3 Likewise let the aged women be reverent in behavior, not slanderous, neither enslaved to a lot of wine, teachers of what is good;



Let me present a scenario that is based on an actual occurrence:

Eating supper at restaurant one evening, I noticed that there was a large table that was occupied by several people dressed as if they were eating out after church. What caught my eye was the fact that the men were all drinking beer, and I noticed that it wasn't one beer, each had at least two or more. My son, on the way to the restroom, out of curiosity, asked if they were a church group. One of the gentlemen resonded that they were from the Kingdom Hall, and were Jehovah's Witnesses. 

My question is: Since they had drank enough alcohol that they were obviously influenced to a certain degree, what is your opinion on their moderation and also their witness?

Obviously, this scenario is not unique to JWs.


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

SBG said:


> Let me present a scenario that is based on an actual occurrence:
> 
> Eating supper at restaurant one evening, I noticed that there was a large table that was occupied by several people dressed as if they were eating out after church. What caught my eye was the fact that the men were all drinking beer, and I noticed that it wasn't one beer, each had at least two or more. My son, on the way to the restroom, out of curiosity, asked if they were a church group. One of the gentlemen resonded that they were from the Kingdom Hall, and were Jehovah's Witnesses.
> 
> ...




If they where drunk then it was wrong, which I don't believe was the case . But what it takes to get drunk is different for everyone. Some 1 beer might , but others can drink 3-4 without being drunk. I don't think you can look and judge people who have had just had couple of beers, especially people you don't know good.


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## SBG (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> I don't think you can look and judge people who have had just had couple of beers, especially people you don't know good.



Actually you can. One beer is enough to raise the blood alcohol level in any individual. Regardless of size, metabolism, frequency of use, etc. One beer does affect a person.


I used this scenario to illustrate how the JWs, or any liberal imbiber rationalizes away personal sin. 


I don't know if you drink personally, but I do know that JWs have a very relaxed position on drinking. They also claim that they want to imitate Jesus and his holyness. I can say with confidence and without reservation, that Jesus would not sit in a restaurant and drink beer.

Flame away liberals.


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## dawg2 (May 7, 2008)

SBG said:


> .
> 
> 
> I can say with confidence and without reservation, that Jesus would not sit in a restaurant and drink beer.



I agree.





































He was putting away WINE


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

Think seriously about that position? Remember the wedding feast? Jesus provide  enough wine for everyone.Do you think he would have provided it if something was wrong with drinking in public? Look at John 2:3
 When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: “They have no wine.”  But Jesus said to her: “What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to those ministering: “Whatever he tells YOU, do.” 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: “Fill the water jars with water.” And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: “Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast.” So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom  and said to him: “Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.”  Jesus performed this in Caâ€²na of Galâ€²iâ€§lee as [the] beginning of his signs, and he made his glory manifest; and his disciples put their faith in him.


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## SBG (May 7, 2008)

DartonHunter101 said:


> Think seriously about that position? Remember the wedding feast? Jesus provide  enough wine for everyone.Do you think he would have provided it if something was wrong with drinking in public? Look at John 2:3
> When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: “They have no wine.”  But Jesus said to her: “What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to those ministering: “Whatever he tells YOU, do.” 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: “Fill the water jars with water.” And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: “Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast.” So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom  and said to him: “Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.”  Jesus performed this in Caâ€²na of Galâ€²iâ€§lee as [the] beginning of his signs, and he made his glory manifest; and his disciples put their faith in him.




This has been discussed quite a bit on this forum...this very topic. If you'd like, I can do a search and provide a link so you can view the different opinions...saves both of us some typing.

My question for you, based on you using this passage of scripture, and your acknowledged belief that drunkeness is a sin, do you believe that a sinless Christ would provide to the people at the wedding, the very thing that would cause them to sin? In other words, do you think Jesus facilitated their sinfulness?


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## DartonHunter101 (May 7, 2008)

SBG said:


> This has been discussed quite a bit on this forum...this very topic. If you'd like, I can do a search and provide a link so you can view the different opinions...saves both of us some typing.
> 
> My question for you, based on you using this passage of scripture, and your acknowledged belief that drunkeness is a sin, do you believe that a sinless Christ would provide to the people at the wedding, the very thing that would cause them to sin? In other words, do you think Jesus facilitated their sinfulness?



Drinking is not a sin. Getting Drunk is. That is why Jesus could provide the wine. This is my opinion everyone has the right to thier own, and I respect yours.


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## Buckaroo93 (May 8, 2008)

SBG said:


> This has been discussed quite a bit on this forum...this very topic. If you'd like, I can do a search and provide a link so you can view the different opinions...saves both of us some typing.
> 
> My question for you, based on you using this passage of scripture, and your acknowledged belief that drunkeness is a sin, do you believe that a sinless Christ would provide to the people at the wedding, the very thing that would cause them to sin? In other words, do you think Jesus facilitated their sinfulness?



The tongue can cause one to sin also. The individual simply has to use his "free will" to control it.


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## ambush80 (May 9, 2008)

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


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