# Is the 357 adequate for deer - another view.



## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 17, 2010)

How about this comparison:

My 357 handload delivers a 185gr WFN with a .28" wide meplat at 1200 from a 4" S&W 686. (This load duplicates he Federal Cast Core round in the same caliber)

The original 250 grain .44 Keith SWC also has a .28" meplat. 

Since either bullet at 1200 fps will shoot completely through any whitetail, both would cause essentially the same amount of tissue destruction.  (The flat of the bullet -expanded or not- is the agent of tissue destruction at handgun velocities)

The .357 will be easier to master due to lower recoil, shorter trigger reach, lower ammo cost and a slightly lighter firearm. (this is assuming an S&W L frame vs an S&W N frame.

Would you still consider the .357 inadequate for a 150 pound whitetail?


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## dertiedawg (Sep 17, 2010)

.60 caliber buckshot said:


> Would you still consider the .357 inadequate for a 150 pound whitetail?



Never did... the 357 is more than adequate... it's all about shot placement. Put it in the boiler room and it will go down... just know your own limitations and capabilities and stay within them.


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## dtala (Sep 17, 2010)

how bout this comparison.....

Having shot have dozen deer with a 357(and one bear) and another dozen with a 41mag, 44mag, I find, thru actual testing, that the 357 is INadequate for most hunters shooting 150 pound whitetails... the 41 and 44 both KILL deer better. Bullet mass and the size of the hole are what kill with a handgun...

Will it kill a 150# whitetail??? Sure it will. Is it an effective cartridge? Not in my opinion. There are a LOT better choices....

I have shot a handgun a LOT, 20 years state police firearms instructor, and killed several hundred big game animals over the last 40+ years, but I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn last niteso I could be wrong......

  troy


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## Sargent (Sep 17, 2010)

Yes, but they are less dead with a .357


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## knifenut (Sep 17, 2010)

I've only shot two with my 686 classic hunter, and both less than 40 yards, but they both went down fast.(180 grain load)

 I think its an OK round for our deer around here, if used with a heavy load, and you place the shot well at 100yds or less. I would probobaly limit my shots to 60yds or less though.

 Only having shot two really doesn't prove much though. I'm sure a few that have taken many with the round will know alot more than me about it.


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## WTM45 (Sep 17, 2010)

Yes, the .357 Magnum is plenty for deer.  It's also good enough for an enraged 250lb human too.


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## hayseed_theology (Sep 17, 2010)

When it was introduced, Doug Wesson used the .357 Magnum to take antelope, elk, moose, and grizzly bears as part of the original advertising campaign for the new cartridge.  It can handle whitetail deer in the South.

However, I would prefer a longer barrel than 4", for the sake of velocity and aiming.


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 17, 2010)

*OK then:*



dtala said:


> how bout this comparison.....
> 
> Having shot have dozen deer with a 357(and one bear) and another dozen with a 41mag, 44mag, I find, thru actual testing, that the 357 is INadequate for most hunters shooting 150 pound whitetails... the 41 and 44 both KILL deer better. Bullet mass and the size of the hole are what kill with a handgun...
> 
> ...


So you would say:

That if a 185gr WFN/.28"meplate/357mag, a 250gr LFN/.28" meplate/.41mag and a 250gr Keith SWC/.28" meplate/.44, all  fired at the same velocity and all completely penetrate the vitals of a 150lb. whitetail deer - the .357 would not be as effective as the .41 and .44 mag.


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## dtala (Sep 17, 2010)

read again what I said....I do not find the 357 as effective in actually killing deer as the 41 or 44. Period.  I ain't juggling numbers just my experience killing two dozen er so deer with the above mentioned cartridges........and very little Holiday Inn experience

I did kill a 175# buck at just under 100 yards with a Sigma 40S&Wneck hit and dropped like a rock. He was wounded...and very unlucky, unlike me

Notice I ain't saying it won't kill deer, but there are a lot of better choices out there. Kinda like shooting a .223 rifle on deer..why??? Better choices again......

If you shoot that load of yours accurately on 150# deer you should have good success, but I personally wouldn't.

  troy


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## Dan in MI (Sep 17, 2010)

.60 cal,

Your analogy looks good on paper, but the 185 will shed energy faster than the 250 and as the distance increases the differences become more apparent.

Out to "x' yds they results are the same.  Beyond "X" watch out.

I deliberately used X because without some ballistsic tables no matter what distance I posted it would start a nit-picking argumnet.


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## dertiedawg (Sep 17, 2010)

Some of us are happy with a Ford Ranger and some of us just have to have a Chevy Kodiak 4500 and beef up the suspension.  That Ranger will do most jobs just fine, but because it won't haul the biggest trailer in the lot... it's not good enough.  We are talking about whitetail deer... not elephants.  You kill a deer with a 357 mag and it wont be any less deader than the one you kill with a bazooka.  357 IS adequate for whitetail deer, black bear or any other game animal in GA. You just have to know YOUR limitations and capabilities and stay within them.


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## dtala (Sep 17, 2010)

dertidawg, how many deer/bear/big hogs  have YOU personally killed with a 357??? what load/results??? seriously......

btw, the 300# bear I killed with a 357, I screwed the barrel into his ear as he chewed a dog...I think a 22short hollow point woulda worked


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 17, 2010)

*The bottom line:*

The biggest obstacle facing the growth of handgun hunting IMO is the perception that one has to master a hard recoiling .44, .45, .475, etc.  

The 357 is one of the most commonly owned handguns among outdoorsmen and it is a viable hunting caliber.  Moderate recoil, high penetration, hard cast WFN 357 hunting ammo is effective on the majority of game sought in the South. Indeed the most often made mistake in 357 ammo selection is the use of limited penetration self defense ammo.  

If you want to give handgun hunting a try - your .357 will do the job.


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## dtala (Sep 17, 2010)

.60, I should of asked earlier...are you talking theory or have you actually killed deer with that load/gun??? not being a smart..., just asking your results with that load.....

  troy


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## dertiedawg (Sep 17, 2010)

dtala, I have not killed a bear, hog or deer with a 357 because I use a 44mag . The question is not whether there are better options or whether a 41 or 44 mag is better. The question is whether or not a 357 is adequate and while I don't hunt with a 357, I know of several hunters that do. I prefer the 44mag as it extends my range to just beyond 100 yards. I know others can shoot further with it but this is MY limitation. You've taken several with a 357 so it has done it's job for you and many others very adequately. You can't get no deader than dead!! If I had a 357... I would surely take it hunting!


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## dtala (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm going to disagree with ya on dead is dead. There is dead-right-there, dead-pretty-close, and the dreaded dead-but-ran-a-mile-found-two-days-later dead. or worst...dead-sure-pretty sure-ain't-found-him. I found those descriptions on the bathroom wall of a Holiday Inn I stayed in onct in a cheep part of town....

One of the first few deer I shot with a 357/158JHP was a 170#? buck at ten yards. I SAW the bullet impact at the back edge of shoulder crease, 1/2 way up from bottom. Buck ran like the hounds of Hades on him, never found him. A couple of others took more than one round. Never had those probs with a 41 or 44.

  troy


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## Dan in MI (Sep 17, 2010)

What about a .375Sm?


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## WTM45 (Sep 17, 2010)

Seen more than one deer take off after a .44 Magnum hit.
Watched one six pointer take TWO hits.  First at ten yards in the ribcage, the second one in the neck.  Neither XTP exited.

Saw a doe drop in her tracks to a 9MM 147gr HydraShock.

Deer are the unknown variable in any equation involving a firearm.


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## 1022 (Sep 17, 2010)

I wasn't going to get in this .....but I have taken deer with a 44mag until I traded it off then  I started killing them with a 357 .I have taken deer with a 270 and had them run off and I've shot deer with a 357 and they dropped like a rock,the question was is a 357 adequate imo yes it is.Just remember a man gotta know HIS limitations.


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## olchevy (Sep 17, 2010)

Just going to say deer are like people, in one respect some die at just the sound of a gun going off, others can take 5 shots and keep on running....

I know it will do the job, through some of my friends that hunt with them.....

I will be out there with you too! This will be my first year using a pistol...I will be using a Smith & Wesson 686 4'' barrel .357mag....we will see how it does soon enough! I will be keeping my shots under 30 yards, anything further walks, regardless of what it is.


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## JWarren (Sep 17, 2010)

dtala said:


> I'm going to disagree with ya on dead is dead. There is dead-right-there, dead-pretty-close, and the dreaded dead-but-ran-a-mile-found-two-days-later dead. or worst...dead-sure-pretty sure-ain't-found-him. I found those descriptions on the bathroom wall of a Holiday Inn I stayed in onct in a cheep part of town....
> 
> One of the first few deer I shot with a 357/158JHP was a 170#? buck at ten yards. I SAW the bullet impact at the back edge of shoulder crease, 1/2 way up from bottom. Buck ran like the hounds of Hades on him, never found him. A couple of others took more than one round. Never had those probs with a 41 or 44.
> 
> troy



I had EXACTLY the same thing happen on one about 15yrs ago with a 158gr JHP at 9yds....Georgia Arms Deer Stopper from a 10in Contender. Perfect shot.....dismal results. I do believe, had it have been a cast bullet, I would have recovered that buck.


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## chrismower (Sep 17, 2010)

Practice, Practice, Practice. Keep you shots as comfortable as possible.


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## dertiedawg (Sep 18, 2010)

dtala said:


> I'm going to disagree with ya on dead is dead. There is dead-right-there, dead-pretty-close, and the dreaded dead-but-ran-a-mile-found-two-days-later dead. or worst...dead-sure-pretty sure-ain't-found-him. I found those descriptions on the bathroom wall of a Holiday Inn I stayed in onct in a cheep part of town....
> 
> One of the first few deer I shot with a 357/158JHP was a 170#? buck at ten yards. I SAW the bullet impact at the back edge of shoulder crease, 1/2 way up from bottom. Buck ran like the hounds of Hades on him, never found him. A couple of others took more than one round. Never had those probs with a 41 or 44.
> 
> troy



JHP is likely the reason that buck took off and you never got him... Should have used a hard cast bullet.  I only use JHP for self defense rounds. You will get much better penetration with hard cast.


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 18, 2010)

*I would only add:*



dertiedawg said:


> JHP is likely the reason that buck took off and you never got him... Should have used a hard cast bullet.  I only use JHP for self defense rounds. You will get much better penetration with hard cast.



Make that a WFN hard cast bullet.


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## dertiedawg (Sep 18, 2010)

dtala said:


> I'm going to disagree with ya on dead is dead. There is dead-right-there, dead-pretty-close, and the dreaded dead-but-ran-a-mile-found-two-days-later dead. or worst...dead-sure-pretty sure-ain't-found-him. I found those descriptions on the bathroom wall of a Holiday Inn I stayed in onct in a cheep part of town....



I stand corrected... by bathroom stall wisdom!!


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## trial&error (Sep 20, 2010)

If I can do it with an arrow you can surely do it with a 357mag.  or maybe you can't    shot placement and know your limits.  Most of us don't tend to set up on a power line with 300+ yd shots and decide to take the pistol instead of the rifle.  ymmv  I've never had a deer travel more than 25 yds from the bloody arrow.


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## Dub (Sep 20, 2010)

I've only " field tested" with .44RemMag as far as handguns work.  No complaints.  Was hoping to try the .41RemMag this year, also.  Looks like no hunting for me until December due to so surgery and rehab.


The OP makes a good point if we lived in a world where pass throughs occured each hit.  All the meplat stuff would fairly balance things.  Truth is that's not always the case.  Wound channels, tissue damage and hydrostatic shock are what kills.  In this case more energy is better.

Is his .357 handload adequate?  Sure, under the right circumstances.  If I had his 686 would I want a kill on it?  Sure would.  Would it become my go-to handgun for deer hunting?  Nope.  I'd take more energy.


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 20, 2010)

*Missed the Point!*



.60 caliber buckshot said:


> How about this comparison:
> 
> My 357 handload delivers a 185gr WFN with a .28" wide meplat at 1200 from a 4" S&W 686. (This load duplicates he Federal Cast Core round in the same caliber)
> 
> ...



Most of the responses to this post missed the point:

Today's .357 WFN Hard Cast Bullets have made the 185 grain 357 just as good for deer hunting as the best .44 bullet, the vaunted Keith 250grain SWC, of an earlier era.
No one accuses the .44 250g. Keith SWC of being an inadequate deer bullet - but many look on the .357 185 as marginal. 

The reality is - the flat point or Meplat area and velocity determine tissue destruction. Bullet weight/sectional density determine penetration.  The bullets being compared will both penetrate completely through an ordinary Whitetail Deer from any angle when fired at a nominal velocity of 1200fps.  Complete penetration being the case, both bullets (with the same .280" meplat), will do the same amount of tissue damage. Both will result in an entry and exit hole which lets air in and a lot of blood out. The latter needed for tracking occasionally.

Note:

I am not saying the .44 magnum is a poor hunting caliber.
The .44 Magnum can handle modern WFN bullets as well, indeed even heavier bullets than the original 250 grain.

However when compared specifically with the "benchmark" hunting bullet - the original 1930's Keith .44 250 grain SWC - the .357 Magnum loaded with WFN 185 grain bullets is just as good for deer hunting!

Both completely penetrate and both destroy essentially  the same amount of tissue.

This comparison is apples to apples.

Your comments are welcome!


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## Dub (Sep 20, 2010)

.60 caliber buckshot said:


> Most of the responses to this post missed the point:
> 
> Today's .357 WFN Hard Cast Bullets have made the 185 grain 357 just as good for deer hunting as the best .44 bullet, the vaunted Keith 250grain SWC, of an earlier era.
> No one accuses the .44 250g. Keith SWC of being an inadequate deer bullet - but many look on the .357 185 as marginal.
> ...



And the whole point of this thread was what exactly?

I mean, you've analyzed the meplat area equation to the point where you seem convinced.  So what does everyone's opinion really matter?  You are happy.  You are convinced.  Go kill some deer.


I don't think that you are actually comparing apples to apples.  
If both rounds achieve full penetration you still would create more hydrostatic shock (and resulting tissue damage) from the higher energy load.


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 20, 2010)

*Opinions don't matter?*



Dub said:


> And the whole point of this thread was what exactly?
> 
> I mean, you've analyzed the meplat area equation to the point where you seem convinced.  So what does everyone's opinion really matter?  You are happy.  You are convinced.  Go kill some deer.
> 
> ...



If opinions don't matter, I have no idea why you even replied!

IMO: Meplat, built in or from expansion is the primary instrument of tissue destruction _at handgun velocities_.  

Energy? Well foot pounds of energy originated as a way to compare the work of a horse to the work of a steam engine.  In the early 20th century the marketing guys in the ammo companies hit on using energy figures as a way to make the new smokeless rounds seem vastly more powerful than the old big bore black powder rounds. Hey it worked - the .30-30 does generate higher energy figures than the .45-70!

What was my point?  Today's heavy bullet .357 Magnum is a better deer hunting round than most hunters give it credit for.


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## Dub (Sep 20, 2010)

Again:


You aren't talking about a broadheads making pass throughs.

You are talking about bullets of different masses and velocities.  These bullets *aren't *apples to apples.

That's cool, though.  If your theories make you comfortable then so be it.  Like I said, go forth and kill some deer.


Thank you for finally coming to an actual point:  What was my point? Today's heavy bullet .357 Magnum is a better deer hunting round than most hunters give it credit for.

To that point I will agree.  




Good evening.


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## dertiedawg (Sep 21, 2010)

.60 caliber buckshot said:


> IMO: Meplat, built in or from expansion is the primary instrument of tissue destruction _at handgun velocities_.
> 
> What was my point?  Today's heavy bullet .357 Magnum is a better deer hunting round than most hunters give it credit for.



I would have to agree as well and would add that with heavy slow moving bullets at handgun velocities, the unexpanded meplat is of even more importance to a quick clean kill. Bullets expand better at rifle velocities. You can get 44 mags with a .329 meplat... can't get that with 357 bullets. Hard cast bullets in all handguns for hunting with WFN (large meplat).


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## .60 caliber buckshot (Sep 21, 2010)

*I concur:*



dertiedawg said:


> I would have to agree as well and would add that with heavy slow moving bullets at handgun velocities, the unexpanded meplat is of even more importance to a quick clean kill. Bullets expand better at rifle velocities. You can get 44 mags with a .329 meplat... can't get that with 357 bullets. Hard cast bullets in all handguns for hunting with WFN (large meplat).



I agree with you. I have both .357's and .44 Magnum revolvers and certainly WFN .44 bullets  punch a bigger hole and cause greater tissue damage.  However, today's WFN 357 loads can be just as effective as the older _small meplate .41 and .44 SWC bullet designs _on deer size game (hence my apples to apples assertion). I realize this comparison challenges many long held ideas on the effectiveness of the .357 Mag.  Nonetheless, the new generation of WFN big bores clearly overshadow the .357 magnum as well as the older small meplate big bore designs.


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## Buckhead (Jan 17, 2011)

JWarren said:


> I had EXACTLY the same thing happen on one about 15yrs ago with a 158gr JHP at 9yds....Georgia Arms Deer Stopper from a 10in Contender. Perfect shot.....dismal results. I do believe, had it have been a cast bullet, I would have recovered that buck.



I am surprised at that result.  A 10" Contender in .357 will generate significantly more velocity/energy than a typical revolver.  I don't care if your revolver has a 8 3/8" barrel, it will be at least 300 fps slower than a 10" Contender with the same load.  That is a huge energy and trajectory difference, like a different caliber all together. The revolver's cylinder gap is the main culprit. Whatever you think your practical range is with a .357 mag revolver, it is probably 40 - 50% greater with the Contender. 

Although I have taken a couple of deer with my 6" .357 revolver, I do believe it is on the light side.  The Contender in is a different story.


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## GAR (Jan 17, 2011)

In sequence from left to right:

180gr LBT WFN, 35 cal
250gr LBT WFN, 41cal
230gr NOE LFN,  41cal
300gr LBT LFN,  45 cal
325gr LBT WFN, 45 cal

Cast these for use in my weapons. Firm believer in heavy for caliber cast bullets. 

Have not shot a deer with a 357 as of yet but I do have a Ruger Redhawk in that caliber that will handle any sane load.

Tom


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## LanceColeman (Jan 17, 2011)

I think a major factor in alot of this talk is missing and thats actual bullet VELOCITY. Terminal performance and both  maximum penetration as well as mushrooming and integrity are both effect by this.

There's a TON of difference in a +P 180gr LFN coming out the barrel of a henry lever gun and a 180 grain federal poppin out the muzzle of a 4" barrel revolver. 

I've killed a couple with a taurus 357 with a 6" (5.5") Barrel. Made me wanna hotter heavier load in a longer barreled pistol.

A hot heavy 357 mag round coming out the barrel of a TC contender in super 14 and a medium heat or standard round coming out a snub nose revolver only bear one thing is simularity... and thats the actual name of the cartridge.


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## dtala (Jan 17, 2011)

no dang common sense allowed Lance....

  troy


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## kdcustoms (Jan 17, 2011)

Not sure exactly what this debate has turned into.......but I have shot 7 or 8 deer (70 yds and less) and about 10 hogs under 50 yds various sizes btwn 70-185lbs with hot .357 XTP 180's out of a 6" 686 and every one was a simple recovery (most fell within sight).

Have shot similar numbers with 44's from 4 5/8 SBH to 8 3/8 S&W using jacketed 180's n 240's as well as hard cast Keith SWC.

All that being said, with proper shot angles I don't think there is much difference in their effectiveness.


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## Big7 (Jan 31, 2011)

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

About the same size heart/lung etc... as deer.

The .357 is the best, even over the .44 Mag. 

Look on down to the "one shot stop" and "DOA" stats for the .357.

So.. Yeah, It's plenty.


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## groundhawg (Jan 31, 2011)

.60 caliber buckshot said:


> Would you still consider the .357 inadequate for a 150 pound whitetail?



Nope, just not enough gun/bullet.  Now a 120 pound doe maybe but just not enough for a big old 150 pound Georgia deer.


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## dtala (Jan 31, 2011)

stopping someone and KILLING a deer ain't the same.....


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Jan 31, 2011)

I used to own a Ruger .357 long ago, 6" barrel per old regulations from years ago. I shot a 110 lb 4 pt. in the front shoulder at 20 yards. It did not exit and I was not impressed with the results, it did kill the deer but I was expecting more. It didn't knock the deer down as every deer I have shot with more power has and I had to trail the deer with a poor blood trail. I don't remember the load I was using but it was a hollow point "hot load". Over all I was disappointed (maybe I was unrealistic in my expectations) and did not take it hunting again.


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## Big7 (Feb 1, 2011)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> but it was a hollow point "hot load".



Therein lies the problem.


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## fourwinds (Feb 1, 2011)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> I used to own a Ruger .357 long ago, 6" barrel per old regulations from years ago. I shot a 110 lb 4 pt. in the front shoulder at 20 yards. It did not exit and I was not impressed with the results, it did kill the deer but I was expecting more. It didn't knock the deer down as every deer I have shot with more power has and I had to trail the deer with a poor blood trail. I don't remember the load I was using but it was a hollow point "hot load". Over all I was disappointed (maybe I was unrealistic in my expectations) and did not take it hunting again.



Like big7 said the hollowpoint was part of the problem. But also, shot placement. I would wait to put that bullet through the ribcage and through the heart/lungs.


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## Stroker (Feb 2, 2011)

Killed near a dozen with a 357 and never lost one. The trick is to use a140 or 158 JSP, not a JHP. My favorite load was a 140 JSP @ 1500. Complete pass through every time, dead every time. Some will run a short ways, but I have had them run with my .444 ,.280 and the old reliable 30-06. Some deer just don't know there dead yet.


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## Dub (Feb 2, 2011)

dtala said:


> stopping someone and KILLING a deer ain't the same.....



I agree.


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## Wes (Feb 19, 2011)

Dtala - would you please post the story about 'screwing the barrel into the ear of the bear'


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## Rich M (Mar 30, 2011)

Gentlemen,

While I have had a .357 revolver of one form or another on & off over the past 24 years or so, I have not used it hunting.

I got a bug to try a 357 Max but the special gun barrel machinist never responded to the return e-mail and I now have a 357 rifle with a 22 inch barrel.  Nice light little break action single shot.

It is an ambition to hunt with this little gun over my 30-06.  I rarely see anything, and what I typically see is usually within 100-125 yards.

I'm trying to decide what exactly to do.  That 185 gr bullet that started all of this can be made to jump at over 1,800 fps out of the rifle.  I'm concerned about leading, not having shot any cast bullets in my revolver.

A XTP 180 will do about 1700 fps.  That will surely turn something's lungs to mush.  Will it exit at ranges less than 50 - 75 yards yards?  Probably not, tho' some say it will.

158 gr soft points are all sold out at most carriers - Cabelas, Midway, Browns, Etc..

The XPB in 140 is supposed to zip along at 1,900-2,000 fps ver lil gun.  Have to figure that it will exit since most of it is solid copper.

Reasonably priced manufactured ammo is also in short supply.  The current administration sure set a fire in those woods.

SO, I'm stuck with reloading and am begging for a good load for deer.  

Do I need to start making my own cast bullets?  If so, how does one do the gas check portion of the cast?

Thanks.


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## ngatom (Apr 16, 2011)

I have used handloads for deer and bear and have found that the only way to find a good load is to buy a number of powders and experiment. Each gun will have it's own sweet spot. Many years ago for my 8" barreled Dan Wesson 18.5 grains of Olin 630 behind a 158 gr flatnose was an accurate flat shooting fast moving bullet.  Work up a number of loads and then take them to a range - warm up with wadcutters so that you know how you and the gun tend to shoot - then start on your own loads - mark each target with case, primer, bullet mfg and weight, powder mfg and weight. It may take a little while but you will find a load that puts a group as good as you and the gun are capable of. *Do not start with max loads - work slowly up, and pay attention to signs of overpressure*. 

tom


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## EMC-GUN (Apr 17, 2011)

Have I killed a deer with a .357 Mag? No. Do I think it would work? Yes. It think what hampers today's hunters in regard to handgun hunting is poor shooting and not being prepared. A 200gr. hardcast WFN at a high rate of speed in and out of a deer's ribcage punching through the heart/lungs and it will have an effect on said deer. Jerking the shot, buck fever, sight alignment, poor ammo selection are not the making for an "inadequate handgun" choice. It is the hallmark of one who does not train and practice with their particular handgun. I have molds for .358 bullets from 105gr. through 200gr. I can shoot them well. I have 2 .357 mags, a NMBH and a Model 66 Smith. I would trust both to deliver a kill shot on a "Ga Whitetail". Given a reasonable range and confidence in the shot. Aim breath squeeze. Practice Men, practice.


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## Migraman (Apr 17, 2011)

IMO, "killing power" is relative and each shot on game is different.  Example: I had a 243 that gave spectacular results with 100 gran partitions going a similar speed as a 257 Bob that always had run offs using 117 grain pills.  About 10 deer killed with each.  The 257 Roberts has been used to kill just about everything in North America and I had some pretty dissapointing experiences with it.

I won't get in to whether the 357 is adequate (I think it is but, that's what I think).  However, as far as penetration and downrange energy - bullet weight alone is not a good consideration or comparison.

Given the same velocity - let's say 1200 fps - and all other factors being equal, a 180 grain 357 WILL carry more of it's energy at 100 yards, WILL penetrate farther and WILL be more accurate (that is, consistent) than a 240 grain 44 mag round of the same bullet design.

Why?  Sectional Density.  That is the ratio of bullet shape to a round ball.  The longer the bullet, the more of it's energy is carried downrange, the farther it penetrates and the more consistent it's bullets fly.  180 Grain 357 - SD of .202  240 Grain 44 Mag - SD of .186.

I learned this the hard way loading 235 grain bullets in a 375 H+H.  They dropped like stones and were amazingly inaccurate.  Bump them to 260 grain partitions and the whole game changes.

Or, watch a javelin.

Now, bump that 44 up to a 300 grain pill and a SD of .233, the 357 looses the game.

I'm with dTala, dead is dead.  But, physics are physics and the SD of a smaller in diameter, longer bullet can not be denied.


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## LanceColeman (Apr 22, 2011)

.60 caliber buckshot said:


> How about this comparison:
> 
> My 357 handload delivers a 185gr WFN with a .28" wide meplat at 1200 from a 4" S&W 686. (This load duplicates he Federal Cast Core round in the same caliber)
> 
> ...



As I stated earlier, I've killed a couple with 357 mags. is it adequate?? Define adequate. It got the job done. But they're ARE indeed alot better choices. My 357 mag accompanies me when I may need a finishing shot, a close quarters situation or as a back up to my smoker, bow or rifle. (it's not the primary weapon) When my  primary focus is handgun hunting?? It's NOT the pistol or caliber I reach for.


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## GAR (Apr 22, 2011)

I am sticking to my heavy for caliber LBT style LFN's that I cast for my magnum handguns and my 45 Colt.

Tom


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## Dub (May 2, 2011)

.357......seems awful light for deer













Next to a .41:







Next to a 500














Eaten by a 500


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## FOLES55 (May 2, 2011)

it will work, but im sure the 500 works just a lil better


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## Dub (May 3, 2011)

FOLES55,


That is one beautiful creature in your avatar!!!!!


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## GCJ (May 3, 2011)

Shot placement is super critical with the .357 Mag.  The .44 Mag is much more forgiving, and the recoil is tolerable with a six inch or longer barrel....Gary


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## B Man (May 3, 2011)

GCJ said:


> Shot placement is super critical with the .357 Mag.  The .44 Mag is much more forgiving, and the recoil is tolerable with a six inch or longer barrel....Gary



I'm going to disagree lightly about the first sentence.   Shot placement is key with either one since both guns do not have much KE but more less work off of penetration much like an arrow.  The .44 allows you to take a tougher quartering shot or bust shoulders with a higher chance of an exit but both require very skilled shot placement IMO.  I have both and always grab my 44 mag. but have no problem using my .357.  

Use a heavy tough contsructed bullet in a .357 and your fine.  I opt. for 180gr. partions or XTP's in mine.   I also shoot 300gr. XTP in my .44's.  deer hunting even though there not needed.  I've had several 240gr. bullets in my 44 mag seperate  when hitting bone.

IMO it's like comparing a .243 vs. a .308.  One is a better choice but both do the job fine.  Everything has it's limits, learn it, and abide by it.


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