# haven grown up in bible belt here are some thought and corrections



## 1kruger (Apr 14, 2010)

The bible is the word of GOD. I have heard this my whole life. In my study of the bible god spoke rarley then he spoke only to certain individules.
The better term that should be used is The bible is the apostles interpetation of the teaching`s of the man named Jesus who was the son of GOD. 
The bible is a collection of stories  that are to be interpetited by each person to help them answer their own spirtual questions, Again in my studies Jesus did not teach by reading he taught by asking questions and listeners answering, He cast no stone he condemed no others.
LEt ma state i believe in Christianity, budhism, native american religion, and Hindism,
Now by making that statement i am going to get a lot of flak from all who read this but . Think about this all four of these religions are inrtertwined and support each other. I will continue this post for a while i am not trying incite arguments but start intrest and discussion to show that having an open mind leads to an open heart which leads to true faith in the one true creator and savoir. The buddist are the truest form of christianity, they teach to harm no one and live in harmony and at peace and not to judge sounds like words spoken by a man from bethlaham. We can look at the other two on Thursday and Friday. And remember Sit Jesues at the head of table and devil next to you. ( keep your enimies close so you know what they are doing) This as it should be the devil has to look up as you do to the head of the table.)


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## Huntinfool (Apr 14, 2010)

Ok....I give up....who is this?  Where are the cameras?  Did I win some money or something?

Am I on Candid Camera?


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## gtparts (Apr 14, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Ok....I give up....who is this?  Where are the cameras?  Did I win some money or something?
> 
> Am I on Candid Camera?



Naw!! Somebody just skipped a few studies / lessons in Comparative Religion class.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> LEt ma state i believe in Christianity, budhism, native american religion, and Hindism, ... all four of these religions are inrtertwined and support each other.... The buddist are the truest form of christianity ...


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## SarahFair (Apr 14, 2010)

I can honestly see where the OP is coming from.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> The bible is the word of GOD. I have heard this my whole life. In my study of the bible god spoke rarley then he spoke only to certain individules.
> The better term that should be used is The bible is the apostles interpetation of the teaching`s of the man named Jesus who was the son of GOD.
> The bible is a collection of stories  that are to be interpetited by each person to help them answer their own spirtual questions, Again in my studies Jesus did not teach by reading he taught by asking questions and listeners answering, He cast no stone he condemed no others.
> LEt ma state i believe in Christianity, budhism, native american religion, and Hindism,
> Now by making that statement i am going to get a lot of flak from all who read this but . Think about this all four of these religions are inrtertwined and support each other. I will continue this post for a while i am not trying incite arguments but start intrest and discussion to show that having an open mind leads to an open heart which leads to true faith in the one true creator and savoir. The buddist are the truest form of christianity, they teach to harm no one and live in harmony and at peace and not to judge sounds like words spoken by a man from bethlaham. We can look at the other two on Thursday and Friday. And remember Sit Jesues at the head of table and devil next to you. ( keep your enimies close so you know what they are doing) This as it should be the devil has to look up as you do to the head of the table.)



Is this Lowjack's antithesis?

Or did something get loose from the thread discussing wigi boards?


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## gtparts (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> LEt ma state i believe in Christianity, budhism, native american religion, and Hindism,



Do you mean you accept parts of all those religions?

I only ask because there are great contradictions in what each teaches. 
Not only that, but there is no such thing as a single Native American religion, so I'm not real clear on what you believe.

I'm beginning to believe you are just jerking out chains. Maybe HF nailed it right from the git-go.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

Ya'll forgive me but I have to bite!!

1kruger,  

Let's do a compare and contrast.  I'll wager a case of Bibles to the destination of your choice that Buddhism is NOTHING like Christianity.

You start.

op2:


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

Madman said:


> Ya'll forgive me but I have to bite!!
> 
> 1kruger,
> 
> ...




For those who need a translation to my last post.

"What is the last thing a redneck says before he dies (or gets embarressed)?  

Hey guys watch this."


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## Huntinfool (Apr 14, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I can honestly see where the OP is coming from.



SARAH!!!!  Seriously?

If I knew your middle name, I'd be calling you out by your full name like your momma used to when you were in trouble!


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## SarahFair (Apr 14, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> SARAH!!!!  Seriously?
> 
> If I knew your middle name, I'd be calling you out by your full name like your momma used to when you were in trouble!



lol! Well! I want the world to be ONE! What can I say?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

Theologically speaking the man has a point. The level of discussion and study in retort to the OP is stunning. 

Thus far Sarah and I seem to be the only one that understands where he is coming from.

Jesus rarely responded to a question with a straight answer, but did retort with a question that made one reflect, and perhaps when he was alive (were we to be there) instilled great debate and discussion among his followers.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Jesus were to pose a question in response to one of your questions here on Woody's, a true inquisitive response in the form of a question. 

I dare say he would be laughed at, scoffed, degraded and put in his place by the "true Christians" on board here that have all of the "true" answers.


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## tell sackett (Apr 14, 2010)

What was Jesus's response to false religion?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> What was Jesus's response to false religion?


 
What would be his response to; Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Chruches, Protestantism, Restorationists, Anglican Communion Churches, Pentecostals, Evangelicals etc, etc, etc.

Do you honestly think He would be highly impressed as to how devisive something as simple as His teachings have been made by the flaws and faults of Human nature?

Not to mention how non-believers and seekers are treated. We can do mission work in a far removed country that has no religion other than mythical demons and false gods and show them all of the patience and underastanding in the world, but woe be unto the man or woman that ask a question on this forum that is not aligned with the opinions of the chosen few.


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## tell sackett (Apr 14, 2010)

He would say "I am the way.."; he would say " Enter by the narrow gate..". He is the only way. Not hinduism, not buddhism, not islam, or any other way.


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## 1kruger (Apr 14, 2010)

As I said. I did not post this to jerk chains or  upset anyone elses beliefs but to open honest discussion. The basis of what I interpit christianity is to to treat as you expect to be treated. All three religons go the same route  all three have  one main dietiey or GOD.  All have lower based dieties or angels, I only stated what i believe ,native americans believed in living with nature,  supporting the group, and peace withinm the group  hinduisum is loose form of budisum. but why is it so hard for to believe that one suports the other within the basic belief system.  Does  one need to be Joel Osteen with church thats seats 16000 people to beleive in a christian religion. Or can one be three bald men sitting at peace teaching the  harmony of peace and treating others with respect and love. Or maybey its hindu  followers talking of love and cherishing life and passing on that belief. Then maybey it sthe indians living at peace only taking what was needed  talking of the powers that created all thing great and small. I`ll bite you tell me what is the diffrence, HMM Joel wears 5000.00 suit  and draws a big salery, the three monks have no worldly posesisions and live very humble as do the three hindus. the indians lived the same way. So if you want to laugh and chasitse me for trying to discuss my veiws of christianity then shame on you for being closed minded. Are we not all children of GOD or what ever name You choose to call him. It is amazing that not one of you have mention  the fact the bible is not the word of GOD but willingy jump my beliefs. isnt it funny how none of you question that the bible is written by men. Not one you have addressed  sitting jesus at the head of the table and the devil beside you. But gee let me  get a little hummor going. Can any of you direct me to the third baptist church.  I have found the first, the second,the fudamentalist but never the third. you question me but refuse to question your own  why have the churces splintered so many times because they don`t agree on what the bible says so they went and started a new church. Is it not feasable that some student of Jesus might have went south, north, east or west and thru his interpitations of his teachers teaching started another religion. Hmm isnt that what happend with the agnostics, the followers of John the Baptist who Jesus  was baptised by, HMM could that be why it is called the Baptist church, and then you the church of Christ.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> He would say "I am the way.."; he would say " Enter by the narrow gate..". He is the only way. Not hinduism, not buddhism, not islam, or any other way.


 
That is a non-answer / answer. Care to expand on the answers to the specific questions? Or is this going to be as philosophical as it gets?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> As I said. I did not post this to jerk chains or upset anyone elses beliefs but to open honest discussion. The basis of what I interpit christianity is to to treat as you expect to be treated. All three religons go the same route all three have one main dietiey or GOD. All have lower based dieties or angels, I only stated what i believe ,native americans believed in living with nature, supporting the group, and peace withinm the group hinduisum is loose form of budisum. but why is it so hard for to believe that one suports the other within the basic belief system. Does one need to be Joel Osteen with church thats seats 16000 people to beleive in a christian religion. Or can one be three bald men sitting at peace teaching the harmony of peace and treating others with respect and love. Or maybey its hindu followers talking of love and cherishing life and passing on that belief. Then maybey it sthe indians living at peace only taking what was needed talking of the powers that created all thing great and small. I`ll bite you tell me what is the diffrence, HMM Joel wears 5000.00 suit and draws a big salery, the three monks have no worldly posesisions and live very humble as do the three hindus. the indians lived the same way. So if you want to laugh and chasitse me for trying to discuss my veiws of christianity then shame on you for being closed minded. Are we not all children of GOD or what ever name You choose to call him. It is amazing that not one of you have mention the fact the bible is not the word of GOD but willingy jump my beliefs. isnt it funny how none of you question that the bible is written by men. Not one you have addressed sitting jesus at the head of the table and the devil beside you. But gee let me get a little hummor going. Can any of you direct me to the third baptist church. I have found the first, the second,the fudamentalist but never the third. you question me but refuse to question your own why have the churces splintered so many times because they don`t agree on what the bible says so they went and started a new church. Is it not feasable that some student of Jesus might have went south, north, east or west and thru his interpitations of his teachers teaching started another religion. Hmm isnt that what happend with the agnostics, the followers of John the Baptist who Jesus was baptised by, HMM could that be why it is called the Baptist church, and then you the church of Christ.


 
Excellent points, all of them, and to address the Native Americans, contrary to something previously posted in response to your OP, all tribes do believe in The Great Father, all other elements are represented by "Mothers" of the various four elements, then divided down from their by spirit overseer's of each and every living thing. Theirs is a very reverent religion.

Interestingly enough, it was the European Christians that enslaved them and eventually deminshed their populations from close to 12 million to a mere 250,000 by means of diseases imported, murder and flat out genocide. Great bunch those Christians..


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## 1kruger (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes he is the way  thru his teaching, but he also taught in my opinion to question. Sarah and Sparky  thanks for being open minded its the basis of religion. And accordingto you  Tell Sackett ALL religions are false other than the one you condone.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 14, 2010)

Kruger I am with ya on this one....I interpret the Bible the way I want to interpret it....it's my self help/study guide to life....as long as I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior....and know that I ain't perfect and can always ask for forgiveness....then I am pretty comfortable the way I am....


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## 1kruger (Apr 14, 2010)

I am not here on this page to point fingers. let the bones lie where they are. I hoped to ENLIGHTEN and learn from open discussion.
I think that is not going to be possible.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> I am not here on this page to point fingers. let the bones lie where they are. I hoped to ENLIGHTEN and learn from open discussion.
> I think that is not going to be possible.


 
Give it time, eyes and hearts are opening, and productive discussions are possible.

To your OP I'll post these two similarties between Buddhism and Christianity. (keeping in mind that the horse did come before the cart, and many other religions have borrowed a plethera of verses from Biblical teachings to use in their own mantra)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism4.htm
*Some shared beliefs: *

Buddhism and Christianity do share some features:

<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]*Ethic of Reciprocity: *Buddhism, Christianity and all of the other major world religions share a basic rule of behavior which governs how they are to treat others. Two quotations from Buddhist texts which reflect this _Ethic_ are: <!--mstheme-->[/FONT]<!--msthemelist--><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]_"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?"_ Samyutta NIkaya v. 353.<!--mstheme-->[/FONT]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]_Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful."_ Udana-Varga 5:18.<!--mstheme-->[/FONT]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]This compares closely to Christianity's _Golden Rule, _which is seen in: <!--mstheme-->[/FONT]<!--msthemelist--><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]_"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."_ Matthew 7:12.<!--mstheme-->[/FONT]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]"_...and don't do what you hate..._" Gospel of Thomas 6.
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</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->[FONT=trebuchet ms, arial, helvetica]*Themes of morality, justice, love:* These themes are found through both the Buddha's teaching and the Hebrew and Christian Bible.[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

But from the very same site, there is a much longer list of items that Buddhism does not have in common with Christianity, but I agree with you on the intended overall goals of both.

Thanks for starting this thread, spurning the mind to research and discover things that may have otherwise not been looked at.


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## thedeacon (Apr 14, 2010)

Everyone has a right to his own opinion


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## 1kruger (Apr 14, 2010)

One learns  from asking  questions. The smart man realizez he is only as smart as the next man he ask a question of . So simply put the smart man know`s he is really dumb but learning. That my friends is philosphy!  Or as the country people lernt


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> Everyone has a right to his own opinion


 
Everyone has the right to an opinion through freedom of speach, a God granted right in our Constitution. Where that ends is everyone does not have the right to impose their opinion on others, that is oppression, and even the Bible speaks out against that.

There are only two instances, in the entirety of the Bible that I know of Jesus losing his temper, or not showing loving patience to all he encountered. 

*Matthew 21:12-13 (New International Version)*

* <SUP id=en-NIV-23837 class=versenum>12</SUP>Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. <SUP id=en-NIV-23838 class=versenum>13</SUP>"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a 'den of robbers."*

*Mark 3:5 (New International Version)*

*<SUP id=en-NIV-24291 class=versenum>5</SUP>He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.*

But we are also warned in the Bible against our own anger.

*Ephesians 4:26 (New International Version)*

*<SUP id=en-NIV-29283 class=versenum>26</SUP>"In your anger do not sin"*

*Psalm 4:4 (New International Version)*


* <SUP id=en-NIV-13970 class=versenum>4</SUP> In your anger do not sin; 
       when you are on your beds, 
       search your hearts and be silent. *



 Sin, quite simply, being anything that draws our attention from God. There are a mulitude of attitudes that constitute sin, self-righteous behavior being one of them. In that fleeting moment are those exhibiting it not exemplifying God, but rather trying to impress their peers?



*Romans 3:20 (New International Version)*

*<SUP id=en-NIV-27997 class=versenum>20</SUP>Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.*


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## tell sackett (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> Yes he is the way  thru his teaching, but he also taught in my opinion to question. Sarah and Sparky  thanks for being open minded its the basis of religion. And accordingto you  Tell Sackett ALL religions are false other than the one you condone.


No, He is the way through His death and resurrection. There is no other way. If that offends you, all I can tell you is take it up with Him, those are His words, not mine.


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## Lowjack (Apr 14, 2010)

Madman said:


> Is this Lowjack's antithesis?
> 
> Or did something get loose from the thread discussing wigi boards?



God bless you too.
2 Peter 2 for you

8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.[c] 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature[d] and despise authority. 

   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. 

 13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness.


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## Lowjack (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> The bible is the word of GOD. I have heard this my whole life. In my study of the bible god spoke rarley then he spoke only to certain individules.
> The better term that should be used is The bible is the apostles interpetation of the teaching`s of the man named Jesus who was the son of GOD.
> The bible is a collection of stories  that are to be interpetited by each person to help them answer their own spirtual questions, Again in my studies Jesus did not teach by reading he taught by asking questions and listeners answering, He cast no stone he condemed no others.
> LEt ma state i believe in Christianity, budhism, native american religion, and Hindism,
> Now by making that statement i am going to get a lot of flak from all who read this but . Think about this all four of these religions are inrtertwined and support each other. I will continue this post for a while i am not trying incite arguments but start intrest and discussion to show that having an open mind leads to an open heart which leads to true faith in the one true creator and savoir. The buddist are the truest form of christianity, they teach to harm no one and live in harmony and at peace and not to judge sounds like words spoken by a man from bethlaham. We can look at the other two on Thursday and Friday. And remember Sit Jesues at the head of table and devil next to you. ( keep your enimies close so you know what they are doing) This as it should be the devil has to look up as you do to the head of the table.)



Excuse me but ,Yes Jesus taught By reading if something is required of a Hebrew is to be well verse in the scriptures and He was, as many times he used the phrase "it is written"which is the way Jews discuss the Word, we don't quote verses because there are no verses in the original OT, when we discuss we say it is written by .....such an such and  if you are a learned Jew you would know that what is being said it  is right or wrong, The Apostles quoted the OT and The Talmud and the Book of Enoch and the book of Tobit ,Books that are not even in the catholic canon.

Getting angry and rebuking someone is not a sin, going further and striking someone is a sin.
"That is why the word says be angry but do not sin"


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> "That is why the word says be angry but do not sin"


 
Scripture quotes could go on eternally never deciding anything.

Ex:

*Proverbs 29:22*

An *angry* man stirs up dissension, and a hot-tempered one commits many sins.

Is dissension the desired result? I would think not.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> God bless you too.
> 2 Peter 2 for you
> 
> 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.[c] 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature[d] and despise authority.
> ...



I couldn't tell by  your tone but my comment was meant as a compliment.


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## Inthegarge (Apr 14, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Scripture quotes could go on eternally never deciding anything.
> 
> Ex:
> 
> ...



Sorry, I have to disagree. We learn from reading and studying what others have learned. Thus we have teachers and students.
We are not free to pick and choose because that is an unlearned position. Just because you decide the sky is Red doesn't make you right. 
None of the belief systems you ascribe to accept the others. If they did there would be no controversy and as Sarah said we could all get along.
The underlying problem is that man is selfish and wants things his way.
The Bible throughout History has been unpopular with man because it condemns his human nature as flawed. We all know this is true unless we are deluded.
It is the oldest history of mankind and has been accepted as such from the beginning. Although some want you to believe otherwise. If man had been the author we sure could have made it easier to be good people and heaven would be open to all just because.
So  1) learn how to use spell check as my students do and 2) don't throw some ambiguous hodge podge out that no one can begin to reasonably discuss.
Oh Yea, this is to the OP and the comment about scripture quotes.......Thanks RW


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

I was serious in my post about compare and contrast but evidently ya’ll were not.

I have made a cursory study and find some aspects interesting even though I do not agree with them.

Buddhism is mainly a pantheistic religion while Christianity is a monotheistic.

Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion.

Buddhism like Hinduism is rooted in culture not in faith.

Buddhism teaches reincarnation, Christianity teaches one life that will last eternally.

Buddhism teaches that one can eventually attain “God” status hence meditation rather than prayer, the focus is on “I”.   Christianity teaches pray / communion with a being greater than ourselves

Buddhism teaches that one can become equal to god by karma. 
Christianity teaches that the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob reached into time some 2000 years ago to save the crown jewel of His creation from eternal separation from Himself.  


My 1st grade teacher taught “peace, share, don’t fight, don’t steal, don’t be mean, but she was not a religious leader and she most certainly was not interested in my eternal soul.

Jesus Christ is interested in me.  Buddha was interested in himself.

If you remember Tiger Woods made the statement during his public humiliation speech something to the affect that if he had followed his religion he would have been a better father and husband but history tells us the on the night his son was born Buddha left home on his quest for self.

Christ came as a servant.

There is my start.  Next.



P.S.  I've found most folks on this forum don't like it when you ask them questions.


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## dawg2 (Apr 14, 2010)

...I am on pins and needles...


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## thedeacon (Apr 14, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Everyone has the right to an opinion through freedom of speach, a God granted right in our Constitution. Where that ends is everyone does not have the right to impose their opinion on others, that is oppression, and even the Bible speaks out against that.
> 
> There are only two instances, in the entirety of the Bible that I know of Jesus losing his temper, or not showing loving patience to all he encountered.
> 
> ...



I didn't mean to give anyone the impression that I don't take seriously what this man is saying.

I do

However sometimes the more you say the worse things get. I get the feeling some people on here would just like to stir things up.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 14, 2010)

kruger is playing a silly joke... and by his post, we see kruger actually doesnt know squat about any religion... i mean good LORD!

ch, send him a Bible, would ya...  lol.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

1kruger said:


> ......... And accordingto you  Tell Sackett ALL religions are false other than the one you condone.



According to Buddhist and Hindus ALL religions except theirs are false.

They will tell you that Christianity or Judaism or Islam is ok for you because that is what karma has given you in this life but if you seek the truth, meditate, etc. you will eventually come to the truth of self and you will then e equal to God.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

Inthegarge said:


> None of the belief systems you ascribe to accept the others.


You don't know me, don't know anything about me. How preytell do you claim to know anything about what I ascribe to?



Inthegarge said:


> The underlying problem is that man is selfish and wants things his way.


 
That is what I have been saying for days now, thanks for the affirmation.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 14, 2010)

Wow....all I can say is wow.

I get busy this afternoon and then come back to this.

Absolute absurdity...how someone can claim to believe in Christ Jesus and claim to be "One World...One Love"

Kinda like Obama saying he's a centralist.  Sounds good and everyone wants it, but just can't be.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

As a side note:

Dawg can you give a turkey CPR?
And Been I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put a bead on a turkey again.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

Madman said:


> According to Buddhist and Hindus ALL religions except theirs are false.
> .


 
I would beg to differ.



			
				Dalai Lama said:
			
		

> Just as one food will not appeal to everybody, one religion or one set of beliefs will not satisfy everyone's needs. Therefore, it is extremely beneficial that a variety of different religions is available from which to choose. He welcomes and rejoices at this.


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## ronpasley (Apr 14, 2010)

thedeacon said:


> I didn't mean to give anyone the impression that I don't take seriously what this man is saying.
> 
> I do
> 
> However sometimes the more you say the worse things get. I get the feeling some people on here would just like to stir things up.


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## Madman (Apr 14, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> I would beg to differ.



Differ all you want.  The Dalai Lama is not Gautama Buddha, and Buddha said "eventually you will come to self".

In Christianity you NEVER come to self.


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## crackerdave (Apr 14, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> ...I am on pins and needles...



   Good ta see th' ol' dawg come off th' porch once in a while!


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 14, 2010)

Madman said:


> Differ all you want. The Dalai Lama is not Gautama Buddha, and Buddha said "eventually you will come to self".
> 
> In Christianity you NEVER come to self.


 
That is not evident by the many posts on the SF.


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## SarahFair (Apr 15, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Wow....all I can say is wow.
> 
> I get busy this afternoon and then come back to this.
> 
> ...



So just because someone is of another faith doesnt mean we cant love them, care for them, shelter and feed them?


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## dawg2 (Apr 15, 2010)

Madman said:


> As a side note:
> 
> Dawg can you give a turkey CPR?
> And Been I'm not sure I'll ever be able to put a bead on a turkey again.


You can give anything CPR if it has a Cardio Pulmonary system


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## Madman (Apr 15, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> That is not evident by the many posts on the SF.



I trust the writings of Buddha more than the SF but let's carry on with the discussion.

I have shown a very few differences in Buddhism and Christianity, it could go ad nauseum, please show me how they so similar.  Other than love everyone, as I said my teacher taught that and she was no spiritual leader.

Where's 1Kruger?


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

Good God! i can see the fires are stoked and pages of your bibles are burning and dog eared. I ascribe to BASICS of many religions it is not your place to judge me as you do. Because if so then most of the posts on here boarder on the  sin of judging.  See I can`t quote script and verse but I do know  do not judge least you be judged  so by the statment  if you believe in another religion ya aint getting into heavin and this one comes from the some fine upstanding christins I know, those jews are going to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- because they don`t believe in Jesus or those infadels in the middle east are Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- bound because of their beliefs, Tell Sackett  your points a valid about about buddism and hinduism, But It does speak of reserection/ reincarnation in the bible.  Reserection raise from  bring forth from death. Reincarnation to be reborn or born again from death. simplist meanings.  Like I said in the PM I sent to you  the basics of each to form what I believe, Quoting scripture is quoting MANS interpetation of what Jesus meant. I speak from the one thing that man cannot recreate/rewrite or misinterpet the soul.  The bible has been rewritten by many men ove the centuries, scriptures lost, misinterpeteted when transcribed. We will only know the truth and the answers when we are all standing in the line in front of the big book of life. till then its a crap shoot. Because all the books written  for each religion say if you don`t believe in this one ya aint going to up,  your going down so. heaven is going to be real empty and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- is going to be real full.


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## Lowjack (Apr 15, 2010)

Madman said:


> I couldn't tell by  your tone but my comment was meant as a compliment.


And I thanked you for it.

The rest is for the OP


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 15, 2010)




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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

I did not use profanity in my post . the only profanity i used as H E double tooth picks as we used to say as kids. Spo i gues place that old saying in the editied spots. 
And MADMAN i am her andd will be back and forth,  And obvously your teacher was a spirtual teacher if she taught you that along with your parents and the preacher. anytime a person teaches love and respect and peace in my veiw they are spirtual teachers. 
Even you.


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

So been hunting what do you get from your quote what has it taught you. (Proverbs 8:36) Please teach me your veiw and interpetation of this ,obvously your favorite quote, and why is it your favorite. For I am but a student willing to learn! I am serous.


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

"Mad MAN"You are my most most vocal critic and from your choice of a screen name and the picture you chose for your avatar you seem to be harbing some very large anger issues and hostility this is shown by name choice, the picture indicates that you keep yourself restrained and are in misery and agony.  Please explain  what pain are you in, share your thoughts, the ones you keep chained up the ones that cause you misery and cause you to be a madman. take the weight off of your soul and free yourself of these issues.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 15, 2010)

1kruger said:


> So been hunting what do you get from your quote what has it taught you. (Proverbs 8:36) Please teach me your veiw and interpetation of this ,obvously your favorite quote, and why is it your favorite. For I am but a student willing to learn! I am serous.



well i wouldnt say that it is my favorite verse... but i do like it.
what i have learned by the Bible is who God really is. what His characteristics are, what He is looking for, what He wants, etc.

fwiw, i am not a fan of religion or churchianity. but i am huge fan of the Word of God and seeking God (the God of the Bible) with all my heart... men will be judged by God by the Word of God, not how good they were, how many times they went to church, not how much money they gave to TBN or red cross, none of these things. it all comes down to obedience to the Word of God. 

God's people are obedient to His Word. all thru the old testament, He killed those who were disobedient. He killed ananais and saphira for lying and disobedience. if i am going to follow Jesus and seek God, it has to be done His way, not mans way. men with the help of satan created the religions of the world. God created His Word and the only way to heaven, the cross of Christ. if you study the teachings of Christ, (using the Bible, not mans teachings)... you will see that obedience is by far the most important thing to Him. not going to church. the modern Christian church says to just go to church and you will go to heaven... that is incorrect and a lie. our hearts have to be given over to Christ, total submission, following Him in every way in our lives.

men, pastors, churches and satan have lied to other men for so long that true Christianity can hardly be spotted thru the mess of lies and false teachings. gods have replaced God and lies have replaced truth. its all part of satans plan to get men on the wrong track.

for example, a common belief taught by churches is that God hates sin but loves the sinner. this is incorrect. this lie gives men a false sense of security that they are going to heaven because God loves them and will forgive them. but God says

Psalm 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

unsaved, unregenerated men are enemies to God. He does not wink at their sins and forgive them because He loves them so much. the Bible is clear that men must repent, turn to Christ, and be obedient to the Word of God or heaven will not be in their future. but churches lie and tell people false gospels. everybody wants to go to heaven but few people want to do what God requires of them, which is repentance and following Christ.

God has given us His Word so that we may study it and learn what is required of us and how we are to become a disciple of Christ. going to church will not gain us entrance into heaven. the Bible is perfect and clear on how sinful man may go to heaven. God makes the ultimate decision on heaven... not men, so its best to learn what He requires of us... using the Word of God. i pray that you will bury yourself in His Word...


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

I yeld to you and understand your veiw. 
My favorite poem in the whole world is foot prints in the sand. no matter how hard I try there is alway only one set of foot prints when i look back down the beach. But the only teachings we have of Jesus is what his apositles wrote down  so it is in a sense mans interpetations of his teaching. But truth , belief , giving all to your beliefs is the way. I like the church we are having right now!  The open discussion of the Lord, God, or what ever name you choose and beliefs and veiws between two or more people is the best church i have ever and only will go to. for my doors never shut and are never locked and service never ends.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 15, 2010)

Nice avatar, BH.  She's cute!


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## Madman (Apr 15, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> And I thanked you for it.
> 
> The rest is for the OP



I now understand.

God's Peace.


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## Madman (Apr 15, 2010)

1kruger said:


> "Mad MAN"You are my most most vocal critic and from your choice of a screen name and the picture you chose for your avatar you seem to be harbing some very large anger issues and hostility this is shown by name choice, the picture indicates that you keep yourself restrained and are in misery and agony.  Please explain  what pain are you in, share your thoughts, the ones you keep chained up the ones that cause you misery and cause you to be a madman. take the weight off of your soul and free yourself of these issues.




I thought you sent this in a PM to keep it between us, but i see you have put it out for public consumption.


Nothing like being psychoanalyzed.

I have a lot of things that help remind me of my past condition. The avatar and name come from the story of the demon possessed man.

I know where I once was and what my Lord has done for me. People can run helter skelter through life trying to be a “good” person, but they cannot do it on their own, they need Christ not Buddha.
______________________________________________
Luke 8: 

26They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes,* which is across the lake from Galilee. 27When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!" 29For Jesus had commanded the evil[c] spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places. 
30Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" 

"Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him. 31And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. 

32A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. 33When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. 

34When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, 35and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 36Those who had seen it told the people how the demon-possessed man had been cured. 37Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left. 

38The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39"Return home and tell how much God has done for you." So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him.
_______________________________________________



If you want to talk psychology you’ll have to find another patient. If you want a serious spiritual discussion about faith, beliefs, and how it affects humanity I’m in. I’ve lived on both sides of the cross and I have seen He$$ first hand, wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.


I love people too much to lie to them or give them some feel good poultice to apply to their life.

Christ said: "I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly."

I have abundant life. But thank you for your concern, I asked that you be as concerned about my soul as you are my Psyche.


You put in your OP that four belief systems are the same and Buddism is close to Christianity.   If you want to admit that this is your opinion and not based in fact I will read it and not reply.

but if you say you want to discuss it, defend your statement, I have put forth a short argument against it.

To date I have seen nothing but opinion.


I was born to fight devils and factions. It is my business to remove obstructions, to cut down thorns, to fill up quagmires, and to open and make straight paths. But if I must have some failing, let me rather speak the truth with too great severity than once to act the hypocrite and conceal the truth.
Martin Luther

PS.  Your signature says a lot about you and so does mine.*


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

It is not done hurt or deface, Not public consumption. No one should say one dang word as you stated we all have our past demons all that shoud be said is nothing and i will stand beside you. My past is open for any who ask for they might learn what not to do. My deepest appoligies to you.

     V/R
     Eric or 1kruger


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## Madman (Apr 15, 2010)

1kruger said:


> It is not done hurt or deface, Not public consumption. No one should say one dang word as you stated we all have our past demons all that shoud be said is nothing and i will stand beside you. My past is open for any who ask for they might learn what not to do. My deepest appoligies to you.
> 
> V/R
> Eric or 1kruger



No harm, no foul, no apology needed but I accept yours.

Should I be blessed enough to meet you one day  you would see that my faith is not some passing fad or mere pontification.  17 years ago I was a dead man, I met the risen Lord and now I am alive.

If you wish to continue the thread, I am prepared, if not:

Go on your way into the world in peace….
Be of good courage; Hold fast that which is good;
Render no man evil for evil; Strengthen the faint hearted;
Support the weak; Help and cheer the sick; Honor all men; 
Love and serve the Lord;
And the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of 
God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us 
all evermore.


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## Huntinfool (Apr 15, 2010)

> 17 years ago I was a dead man, I met the risen Lord and now I am alive.



Amen and Amen my brother.

I think if more people encountered the same one that you've spoken of, we wouldn't have many of these discussions.

BTW...mine was about 2.5 years ago.  I "thought" I knew him...but I was lieing to myself and to everyone around me.

2.5 years ago he got fed up with waiting on and being patient with me and came looking for me.  I would never wish that experience on anyone....but I would wish the outcome on every single person here.


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

I trust we both have learned  from spiritual encounter that growth is expidental and the challenge is on my friend,LOL. Shall we continue with church.)
I am ready to learn next on the list of disscussion what of the forcasted doom of the 12-22-2012! school is in. pencil is sharpened and fresh paper on the desk. As this date is one of the most discussed and talked about at this point in time. This may surprise you comming from me but it says we wont know the day date or the time of the end. So i feel that 2012 being the end is wrong in one sense. I feel it is or will be the end of civililazation as we have come to know it. 
And my signiture is true as now you can be considered one of mine (friend) which i have few of.  I donot use this word loosley.
OH yeah read ur bio MM what kind of range we talking.  Been lookin at building another shooter, Like the Savage had one24"HB, Love the HOWA have an original 1500 in 270 cut down the barrel to 20" nice clean and straight shooter and my other fav is my Ruger #1 HB in 25/06 wanting another 308 mat all time favorite cartridge. Been looking at HOWA barreled actions. Of couse this is side bar to the main discussion.


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## Madman (Apr 15, 2010)

1Kruger,

I agree, only God knows the day.  I do not and do not pretend too know.  I might not make it until Dec. of '12 anyway.

My only concern is that if time ends in '12 or tomorrow I will not have told enough people about the love of God and His redemption of our souls.

As for rifles.  I build anything on a '98 Mauser receiver, unfortunately nice ones are getting tough to come by.  I love them.  If one of mine can't hit an orange at 500+ yards it is no good to me.  I have not built one in a while, work kids, wife, etc.   I have tuned some .45's for friends who shoot in competitions. 

Not many people like Savage, they think they are ugly with that locking nut, I don't care what they look like I think they shoot great.  In fact I might get my youngest a .308 in Scout configuration.


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

Savage was one of the greatest rifles back in the day and lost it following, was and still is a great rifle. The 98 mauser action is almost explosion proof.  All of my long guns are zeroed @200 YDS with the exp of the my .308 zero at 50yds easy calc for adjustment 150 on the money 250 1" lowpick up up click and good to go again. Your honesty and passion are what most should be compared to on this post from what i have seen thus far. When it is time may it be quick, painless and joyfull, I enjoy lifes little excursions to stop and think how many lifes you have interacted with  how many people did stop from killing them selfs that day  just by saying hello. makes on stop and think. As for 12/2012 We have the most  powerful healing drug knowen to man availble to us daily. that pink mass between our ears. I am proud to say i know a man who goes by MADMAN.


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## 1kruger (Apr 15, 2010)

Back to the what this post is about. another issue how many feel that Jeusus was married and could have fathered a child if not children. He was sent to earth to live and experience life as a man.


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## Jeffriesw (Apr 15, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Amen and Amen my brother.
> 
> I think if more people encountered the same one that you've spoken of, we wouldn't have many of these discussions.
> 
> ...



X's 2

Bless you Brother!


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 15, 2010)

here's my question....who is the guy in downtown Jefferson on a Saturday morning yelling, throwing a bible in the air, and pointing at people telling they are going to "heck"...I am sorry but that doesn't start my morning off right...that kind of act just makes me irritable


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## tell sackett (Apr 15, 2010)

1kruger said:


> Good God! i can see the fires are stoked and pages of your bibles are burning and dog eared. I ascribe to BASICS of many religions it is not your place to judge me as you do. Because if so then most of the posts on here boarder on the  sin of judging.  See I can`t quote script and verse but I do know  do not judge least you be judged  so by the statment  if you believe in another religion ya aint getting into heavin and this one comes from the some fine upstanding christins I know, those jews are going to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- because they don`t believe in Jesus or those infadels in the middle east are Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- bound because of their beliefs, Tell Sackett  your points a valid about about buddism and hinduism, But It does speak of reserection/ reincarnation in the bible.  Reserection raise from  bring forth from death. Reincarnation to be reborn or born again from death. simplist meanings.  Like I said in the PM I sent to you  the basics of each to form what I believe, Quoting scripture is quoting MANS interpetation of what Jesus meant. I speak from the one thing that man cannot recreate/rewrite or misinterpet the soul.  The bible has been rewritten by many men ove the centuries, scriptures lost, misinterpeteted when transcribed. We will only know the truth and the answers when we are all standing in the line in front of the big book of life. till then its a crap shoot. Because all the books written  for each religion say if you don`t believe in this one ya aint going to up,  your going down so. heaven is going to be real empty and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- is going to be real full.


There are things in some of your other posts I could respond to also, but I'm going to reply to this one and let it go.

First, in regard to your first two words, you might want to read up on Exodus20:7. Just a thought.

Next I would say before you start in on judge not take time to go to the thread titled"Condemnation" and read post #16 by Huntinfool. It's as good an explanation of that passage as I think I've ever read. You might also want to read the "Should We Judge...Again" thread started by Randy, there's some good Scripture in there.

Now for your comment about religion and Jews and infidels going to he!!. Number one: Religion will not get one single person into heaven, I don't care which one it is. The only thing that will get Jews, infidels, or Georgia rednecks into heaven is accepting Jesus Christ as your savior.

The Bible does not teach reincarnation, period. I'l let that one go at that. It is God's Word, holy and infallible.

I'll give you this, we will all learn the absolute truth when we stand before God, but it's not a crap shoot until then. There are two choices: trust Christ as your savior and spend eterity with Him or reject Him and spend eternity in he!! seperated from Him.

All man made religions won't get you "up" as you put it, but trusting Christ will, and Heaven's gonna be full of those who have!!! 

I want to give you a couple of passages of scripture to read and then I'm through(finally!)
Galatians1:8- But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
2John9-11- Whosoever transgresseth,and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10)If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, recieve him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: 11) For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 15, 2010)

Simply amazing.


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## tell sackett (Apr 15, 2010)

Yep


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 15, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> Yep


 
I wasn't speaking of 1kruger..


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## tell sackett (Apr 15, 2010)

Neither was I.


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## pileit (Apr 16, 2010)

tell sackett said:


> There are things in some of your other posts I could respond to also, but I'm going to reply to this one and let it go.
> 
> First, in regard to your first two words, you might want to read up on Exodus20:7. Just a thought.
> 
> ...





Good preaching my friend.  Where I'm from this would be called gunbarrel straight and brogan style.  I am of the persuasion we need more of this in the day which we live.


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## mountain cat (Apr 16, 2010)

my friend i ask you how you think buddist are the truest form of CHRISTinanty? DO THEY BELIVE IN A VIRGIN BIRTH? DO THEY BELIVE CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?  DO THE BELIVE THAT HE DIED ON THE CROSS TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS? DO THEY BELIVE THAT HE ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY? MOST IMPORTANT! DO THEY BELIVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN IS THROUGH HIM? IF SO THEN THEY ARE TURE CHRISTIANS! AND DONT EVER FORGET, THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD! IT IS THE TRUTH! AND FOR THE INDAINS. MOST OF THE CHEROKEE ARE CHRISTIANS.


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## WTM45 (Apr 16, 2010)

One's spiritual thought process would be much different if they had been born in Mumbai.


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## 1kruger (Apr 16, 2010)

Okay here we go again!
To answer the reincarnation issue you miss read what I wrote. I never said the bible teaches it! I was comparing certain things. Does it not speak of Jeusus raising the dead and dead being being reborn,raised. Hypothecticly with just a twist on words if you please Jeusus was reincarnated after his crusafiction and he asended to the heavens to sit at the right hand of the father. 
                                                      DONE
The statement of jews, infadels and christians, each religion teaches that they are correct, that you have to believe in there way their MAN to be saved to reach heaven. We as christians believe that turning your soul over to Jeusus from the christian bible and accepting him gets us there, the islams believe in their man and so on and so on . So who is right ! Are we because we have a book that does not teach but provides diection and stories written by men but spoken by Jeusus of the way to heaven. Well there is the Koran, and the Torah and so on and so on.  doesnt the koran speak of Mohamed assending to heaven. So by our own teachings if you do not accept the one true savoir into your heart you are danged to he!!. Pretty clear we say blue they say  green. 
                                             DONE 
Also read the first post I wrote, the bible "IS NOT GODS WORD" it is the interpatations spoken by a man who was GODS SON, written down by men  (if i remember right it something like 50-100 years after Jeusus death before the first writting appeared)  who were flesh and bone. Stories written down by men to learn from. God did not dictate the bible and in the bible he rearly spoke as i said when he did it was to just a chosen few. GOD did not sit in the market and talk, HE did not go into the temples, He was not baptised in river by John, His son was and that my friend is whose word comprise 90 percent or more of the bible.
                                    DONE 
In the sense of a crap shoot we believe 100% our way to heaven is IT! They believe  their way  is a 100% right, so who is right;  US THEM  so simply put its a crap shoot and we wil know when we stand in front of the MAN/WOMAN. 
                                          DONE
Scripture, as we call it is open for everones interpetation and how best to apply it to their spiritual needs at that point and time in their life that is why  as we grow the meaning changes of each scripture/story written. it changes daily. The reason I am here on this page is to learn. Live your life with an open heart and mind not closed off. READ  THE WHOLE POST FROM THE FIRST PAGE. I do not claim to be right or wrong I am doing what Jeusus did sitting and talking asking questions and answering questions with questions. exspressing my veiws all of these things are what put him on the cross. or more simply put having church.


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## 1kruger (Apr 16, 2010)

*reply*



mountain cat said:


> my friend i ask you how you think buddist are the truest form of CHRISTinanty? DO THEY BELIVE IN A VIRGIN BIRTH? DO THEY BELIVE CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?  DO THE BELIVE THAT HE DIED ON THE CROSS TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS? DO THEY BELIVE THAT HE ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY? MOST IMPORTANT! DO THEY BELIVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN IS THROUGH HIM? IF SO THEN THEY ARE TURE CHRISTIANS! AND DONT EVER FORGET, THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD! IT IS THE TRUTH! AND FOR THE INDAINS. MOST OF THE CHEROKEE ARE CHRISTIANS.



I think basic form of the belief is the same as christianity and acutualy more so for they condem no one . BITS AND PEICES< BITS AND PEICES,  They have some things in common not many but some. 
AND agine read my last post on the bible. It is quets and stories to read and apply to your life in your own way.

Your last statement is "very true" Cherokee people have always been very spiritual as are most native americans. 
THEY DID NOT ENBRACE AND BECOME CHRISTIANS TILL AFTER THE INFLUX OF THE  WHITE MAN AND MISSIONARIES INTO NORTH AMERICA. BEFORE THE WHITE MAN CAME HERE THERE WERE NO CHRISTIANS IN NORTH AMERICA! IN FACT THE GOOD CHRISTIANS CONDEMED THE RELIGOUS VEIWS OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN AS "HEATHINESS WAYS "RUNNING AROUND UNCLOTHED" AND "WITHOUT THE GUIDENCE OF JEUSUS". THIS IS WRITTEN IN THE HISTORY BOOKS  FROM THE MISSIONARIES THEM SELVES. 
The white man has been in the past a very filthy race, unwashed, and lived in filth and squaler, the native americans were by nature a very clean and healthy race bathing, washing living as close to the garden of eden as one could after being cast out. there needs were simple aas were their ways. 

And your reply is.


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## Huntinfool (Apr 16, 2010)

WTM45 said:


> One's spiritual thought process would be much different if they had been born in Mumbai.



You realize there are Christians in Mumbia, right?


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## 1kruger (Apr 16, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> You realize there are Christians in Mumbia, right?



along with other types of believers. I believe he was trying to make the point that if you are from there then you would be on the other side of the coin. I hope i am interpeteting the original post by from him right


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## WTM45 (Apr 16, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> You realize there are Christians in Mumbia, right?



Nowhere near a majority, read less than 3 percent, unlike Christianity in the "Bible Belt."
I'm sure there are a few Hindus in Atlanta, so the comparison is valid.


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## Huntinfool (Apr 16, 2010)

It is my opinion that there are only a handful of true followers of every religion.  There are multitudes of those "affiliated" with each religion.  

THOSE....are the ones who are simply affiliated because of where they are born.  God's truth is more loudly spoken here in the U.S. and so there are more followers.  

Were there those willing to proclaim his gospel loudly in Mumbia, there would be a growing number of Christians....just like in many African countries at this moment.


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## THREEJAYS (Apr 16, 2010)

I'll just say in the end nary one of mans opinions is going to matter.


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## 1kruger (Apr 16, 2010)

short and sweet and done quietly nicely said.


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## Madman (Apr 16, 2010)

THREEJAYS said:


> I'll just say in the end nary one of mans opinions is going to matter.



very true, but I am not sure that is the crux of the discusion.




> 1kruger ............ To answer the reincarnation issue you miss read what I wrote. I never said the bible teaches it! I was comparing certain things. Does it not speak of Jeusus raising the dead and dead being being reborn,raised. Hypothecticly with just a twist on words if you please Jeusus was reincarnated after his crusafiction and he asended to the heavens to sit at the right hand of the father.



This is a timely post since I was looking for some of my references on Buddhism and Hinduism but was waylaid by a leaking evaporator coil drain pan. (Karma LOL)   From my understanding it is more than a “twist on words” and that in itself can be very dangerous and when you mix falsehood with truth, you create a more destructive lie, even if it is unintentional.

Buddha taught “rebirth” because unlike the Hindu belief in reincarnation he believed a person did not return to themselves.  Another life would come into existence after you are gone.  There would be another consciousness that would have to pay your debt.
Christ was neither “reborn” nor “reincarnated” he was resurrected; everything about Him was the same.

Several religions have attempted to use language common to Christianity in an effort make people believe they are Christian, or to give their religion a Christian flare, but their words mean very different things, but that is for another thread.

Gautama the Buddha taught that karma was the effect of a poorly lived life and you would work out those poor decisions in the next life, however it caused a great dilemma, how did my misdeeds affect others?  Was a young woman who had an abortion carrying out the karma of her unborn?  Was my lifestyle the “punishment” for my parent’s mistakes?

In Christianity I am responsible for my on sins (mistakes) I must pay for them,  “The wages of sin are death” (the Bible).

The differences FAR out way the similarities which pretty much only agree on love you neighbor.


1Kruger, want to keep going on Buddhism or jump to something else?

If I don’t get back to ya’ll this weekend have a great one,

 "The LORD bless you 
       and keep you; 
  the LORD make his face shine upon you 
       and be gracious to you; 
  the LORD turn his face toward you 
       and give you peace." ' 
			Numbers 6:24-26


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## Michael F. Gray (Apr 16, 2010)

Interesting Posts, and I can understand how you reached the stated conclusions. The Word of God is not limited to "statements" made by God the Father, or Christ the son, there is a third person of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit which moved upon the hearts of the authors of Scripture preserved in the "canon" commonly known as "The Bible". Evidence is contained in the Bible itself.
  II Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness."


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## tell sackett (Apr 16, 2010)

1kruger said:


> Okay here we go again!
> To answer the reincarnation issue you miss read what I wrote. I never said the bible teaches it! I was comparing certain things. Does it not speak of Jeusus raising the dead and dead being being reborn,raised. Hypothecticly with just a twist on words if you please Jeusus was reincarnated after his crusafiction and he asended to the heavens to sit at the right hand of the father.
> DONE
> The statement of jews, infadels and christians, each religion teaches that they are correct, that you have to believe in there way their MAN to be saved to reach heaven. We as christians believe that turning your soul over to Jeusus from the christian bible and accepting him gets us there, the islams believe in their man and so on and so on . So who is right ! Are we because we have a book that does not teach but provides diection and stories written by men but spoken by Jeusus of the way to heaven. Well there is the Koran, and the Torah and so on and so on.  doesnt the koran speak of Mohamed assending to heaven. So by our own teachings if you do not accept the one true savoir into your heart you are danged to he!!. Pretty clear we say blue they say  green.
> ...


Madman did a good job replying to you about reincarnation, so I'll just let that stand for itself. Done 

I do not follow a man or a manmade religion. I follow the risen Son of God. Muhammed, Bhudda and the rest are still dead and buried. Their teachings may contain good advice, but the teachings of the One I follow are the way of life. Done

The words of Jesus are the words of God the Son (Am I correct in thinking that from the way you write in that paragraph that you don't believe that Jesus is God?) The Bible is God's Word, written down by men under inspiration of God the Spirit. The N.T. was completed less than 50 years after Calvary, there were still many eyewitnesses around to verify what was written. God did go into the marketplaces and talk. He did go into the synagouges and temple and teach. God was baptised by John in the Jordan. His name is Jesus, the Son of the Highest. Done

No crap shoot, You trust in and follow the risen Savior or a dead man. God is not he/she, God is a spirit. His Son is a man. Done

Scripture does not change, only our understanding of it. I too am here to learn and to try to draw closer to God, my heart is always open to learning more about Him. Jesus's words aren't what put Him on the cross, my sins and your sins put Him there. Love kept Him there. And done


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## 1kruger (Apr 18, 2010)

This is what is so great! each person can believe in what they may. I was raised catholic but really claim no one religion I was saved and gave my heart over to Jesus in 1985 at a Mike Warnke revival writer of the book Satin seller. Now according to all bible based religions there are three entities God the father God the son and God the spirt. different but the same! Even christians will claim there is a diffrence three seperate entities but the same. It is written in text that Jesus and God were not the same,but the same. What does the bible say Jesus cried out on the cross. Your your self condradict yourself ,God was baptised by John in the Jordan. His name is Jesus, the Son of the Highest.  Who is the Highest mentioned in the Bible GOD not Jesus. God is the center of the trinity to the right Jesus, to the left the Holy Spirit. 
I never said scripture changes, I said interpetation changes and every Preacher, Deacon, Priest,and Brother will say that every time they read the scripture it yelds a new meaning in their life. IE we are constantly evolving personaly, spirtualy,physicaly. So we both agree on this issue I guess.
 Pontcious Piliot crucified Jesus not for my sins or your sins for his preaching and  his fear of the movement and support that Jesus  was gaining. As a man Jesus had a choice to renouce his belief in his own teachings and live or be crucified. He chose to stand fast to his beliefs and be crucified. In the process he accepted the sins of the world So by standing fast to your belief in Jesus you will also sit and enjoy eterninity  at the table of the trinity. 
 All "religion" is man made. When Jesus spoke and lived he lived as a man.
We agree the some of the teachings of Muhammed, Bhudda  have some GOOD advice and that is what I refrence to. 
I do believe in rebirth, reincarnation,and reserection.  My explanation  of this is I feel if you lead the best life you can according to the word and ways spoken by Jesus your spirit assends or is resererected into the heaven. If you lead a life away from the words of Jesus then  when you die your spirt is  brought back, rebirth, reincarnated  back to a human exsistence to try again to walk the path laid down by Jesus. This why I believe the world is getting inherintly more evil as the bad is slowly crowding out good. I believe that good "spirits" make a choice to come back down to be born as humans again to try and  lead changes and convert the bad and newly formed spirits. OR my beliefs are wrong and I will be looking up at the soles of your feet. This is how I maintain my outlook and percieption of belief and when I question and falter in my belief I relize I am one of those that made the choice many tmes to come back to try and speak and lead t people to the path of Jesus.


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## Madman (Apr 18, 2010)

1kruger said:


> I do believe in rebirth, reincarnation,and reserection.  My explanation  of this is I feel if you lead the best life you can according to the word and ways spoken by Jesus your spirit assends or is resererected into the heaven. If you lead a life away from the words of Jesus then  when you die your spirt is  brought back, rebirth, reincarnated  back to a human exsistence to try again to walk the path laid down by Jesus. This why I believe the world is getting inherintly more evil as the bad is slowly crowding out good. I believe that good "spirits" make a choice to come back down to be born as humans again to try and  lead changes and convert the bad and newly formed spirits. OR my beliefs are wrong and I will be looking up at the soles of your feet. This is how I maintain my outlook and percieption of belief and when I question and falter in my belief I relize I am one of those that made the choice many tmes to come back to try and speak and lead t people to the path of Jesus.



That is interesting!!

Were you taught that by someone or did you come to that by some other path?


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

by my interpataions of the teaching of life and varous churches I have been to. I went to a what toted as a great church and I enjoyed the fellowship to start, But then the Preacher started his sermon gluttony, This man was as wide as the 3' podium and he preached how being fat where you were going. After church my first wife and i went to eat breakfast buffet, here is the preacher filling two plates down and going back not once but twice i saw with my own eyes.  Went to another great church, Southern Baptist (1st) Preacher  was on fireyou are going to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and there is no way to stop it was the opening statement. great sermon and ortator, then they passed the plate around. THEY counted the donations on stage and sent the plate back out with the preacher saying give to help spread the word of christ and support our missionarys, if you give god will  pay your bills.  I was appalled, after church the preacher was doing the great and meet at the door,  andi asked him of his statement about God paying my bills, he said if i believe yes God will. I said so if I put my power bill in my bible and prayed and beleived it would be paid and he said yes, without a doubt. Well i got a little mad and called him a F*&^ing lier to his face and started my own search. The best preacher i ever i ever knew was a builder i worked for he did not make penny from the church, he preached because he felt the need to inspire the word. after searching and  learning, talking and veiwing, realizing that the majority of people that  when they say I AM A CHRISTIAN I run screaming and covering my ears as they are trying to take something from me, my wallet, car who knows what. My veiw is off the beatten path a bit well quite a bit, but it is what guides me.


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

You sound intrieged MM,   way off the path of buddism now huh!
I have felt this and believed this for over 20 years now.My second wife kept bible thumpers away from me. One tme a do gooder got thru and i listened and what he said to start with was good which freaked out my ex beause i had agreed to visit his church, Then on a dime he turned and started the same ole song and dance of  and bang the drum, At that moment my ex looked at him and told him you had him till you started telling and quoting the bible and scripture.  She explained that i perfered discusion  to preaching and he needed to leave.  Actualy my ex was Methodist and i before the methodest precher would marry uys he wanted to interveiw me, He asked my veiws and let know openly, when i finnished he said there was no way he cold marry us beauces of my beliefs. I was astounded. and talked going in depth explaing my veiws and beliefs, After i finished  he recanted and said that no one else would be allowed but him to marry us. He said and i quote he had never met a more spritial based person than me and wished that his followers were like me it would make his job  very easy. 
But i have been alsobeen told i have a dark and evil auroa, I have sayers and readers of profit walk away  and not talk to me. palm readers refuse to read and asked to leave. I have also been told I am older than my age wiser that then my time and will live to be lonley and alone and see all that I care about die before me. So i tend to be closed off emotionaly from people ask my now third wife.  This is what i enjoy most joisting, causing people to question and ask why ,what if and  why not. This is the religous teaching i have found. I dont question GOD i question mans interpetation of his sons teachings, Why is hard to believe that he was married, could have fathered a child.  frequented prositutes or drank to exsecess or had impure thoughts. He was sent to LIVE and experence life as man.  In order to experence life you have to live it.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 19, 2010)

1kruger said:


> Why is hard to believe that he was married, could have fathered a child.  frequented prositutes or drank to exsecess or had impure thoughts. He was sent to LIVE and experence life as man.  In order to experence life you have to live it.



John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 19, 2010)

> I dont question GOD i question mans interpetation of his sons teachings, Why is hard to believe that he was married, could have fathered a child.  frequented prositutes or drank to exsecess or had impure thoughts. He was sent to LIVE and experence life as man.  In order to experence life you have to live it.


[/QUOTE]



Seriously??? Why is it hard for you to believe that the one Who hates sin... Stepped out of heaven and knew no sin so that He could bear our sin on the cross. What you have implied here is that my Savior was like me! A sinner...... Dude you are out of line and way off base.


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

I welcome your veiws, on my thoughts and my beliefs this is how I learn  and expand my spiritual  journey on my way thru life.
Not quotes from scripture.  Scripture is open for discussion and interpetation, my interpetation of the scripture is going to be diffrent than yours because of where I am at in my spiritual life. Alow the scales to be removed from your eyes.By this post from you and your posts on the postings you are a closed minded person and this appears to the level of your spiritual life.


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

Am I,   i am not making actuations just sugestions open for your intepetations. So you dont think Jesus could have married, and fathered a child.


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

As for a sinner it is not stated that ALL men are sinners, Was Jesus not a Man before his crucifiction and rising on the third day. On the third day he rose to sit at the right hand of the father. Yes or No. 
YOu accept That God had a son Jesus. So why not Jesus.


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## 1kruger (Apr 19, 2010)

Please read the reasons stated the killing of Jesus.   


The killing of Jesus

It is safe to say that Jesus was not crucified because he taught love and forgiveness or because he set about debating legal points with the scribes of his day. Jesus was crucified because he was seen as a threat to the powers-that-be. His brand of non-violent resistance, his manner of stirring the people and empowering the poor, were correctly judged to be challenging the political power structures of his day.

None of this is to suggest that Jesus was a political rebel (a zealot), but it is to state that his mission of proclaiming the reign of God had profound political implications. Such implications became more evident in view of Jesus' actions in 'the cleansing of the temple'. Now the temple was not just a place. The temple was the symbol of the entire Jewish faith and its religious authority structure. Significantly, in two passion narratives the charge is brought against Jesus that he 'threatened' the temple. In effect, what is being stated is that his teachings and actions were threatening the very basis of Jewish life. Although the gospel-writers refute this claim, there is evidence to suggest that in both subtle and profound ways, Jesus certainly did challenge some of the central practices and institutions of Jewish life.

This radical challenge to Judaism could be described in terms of bringing about a new nearness of God to people which would have the effect of eliminating--at least significantly decreasing--the need for human mediators. Jesus' mission very clearly implied the right of everyone to address God as 'Father'. This meant that the Jewish leaders, especially the chief priests and sadduccees mentioned in the passion stories, had good reason to suspect that Jesus' radicalized religion did threaten their own roles and status.

A couple of things can be said about the charges brought against Jesus by the Jewish sanhedrin. First, they imply that Jesus' mission was not altogether a failure. Significant numbers of people, including some from the Jewish ruling classes, had come to a point of accepting that Jesus was indeed a true prophet, perhaps even the Messiah for whom Israel had been waiting. Second, this achievement was a very real threat to the status of lawful authority. If Jesus was seen as 'Christ' and 'Lord' to some, this very fact threatened the familiar lordship of others, notably the chief priests and scribes. Consequently, Jesus was a problem to the Jewish hierarchy from both religious and political perspectives.

However, none of this explains the involvement of Pilate and the Roman authorities. Despite the trumped-up charge of blashpemy that is brought against Jesus, it is important to recognize that he was sentenced to death by the Romans on the charge of political treason: "He claimed to be King of the Jews". This messianic title had very clear political implications. Luke's gospel expands on this charge: "We found this man perverting our nation, and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king" (23:1). The point here is that, to the Roman occupiers of Israel, Jesus could well have been perceived as a would-be revolutionary. At the very least, Pilate and the Roman authorities had good reasons to put a stop to the Jesus-movement on the basis of its subversive possibilities.

Although there are many unknowns with regard to the events surrounding Jesus' death, we can surmise that there was a deal struck between the Jewish leaders and the Roman authorities. Both had a stake in eliminating Jesus' brand of religon: the Jewish leaders had power and status to protect; the Romans were more concerned with law and order.

It is generally recognized that the gospel narratives place most of the responsibility for Jesus' death on the Jews rather than the Romans. At best, this is unbalanced reporting. At worst, it suggests an anti-semitic bias in early christianity. To put the record straight, Jesus did die at the hands of the Romans and in the manner of a Roman execution (the Jews did not have power to crucify). Nonetheless, it is impossible to construct an account of Jesus' trial and crucifixion that does not implicate the Jewish leaders of the day. All this points to the intimate connection between religion and politics in the Jewish society of Jesus' time.

The crucifixion and death of Jesus should always be seen in context of his life and ministry. Although Jesus was not concerned with establishing a political kingdom, his teachings on God's reign were deeply challenging of traditional Jewish institutions and practices. Jesus took a dangerous path: he attacked power and wealth; he overturned social attitudes that oppressed 'unclean' or 'unworthy' people; he taught the need for prayer and self-sacrificing service; he called people to freedom and empowerment in the face of injustice; he named the religious elite a 'breed of vipers' for its manner of sponging off the poor and the needy. In other words, Jesus made enemies among the Jewish leaders and their Roman overlords. These wealthy and powerful elite came to be threatened to the point that they needed to do away with him.

 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

He had a choice to recant,live and   go on with life but as we stand by our beliefs, he stood by his as did John the Baptist - beheaded, Jesus crucifiyed as stated above

Jesus' approach to his death

What then can we say about Jesus' own understanding of his approaching death? Since the crucifixion and death of Jesus were the result of his life and ministry, we can rightly assume that he must have reckoned with the possibility of death well prior to the end of his ministry. Jesus was neither a blind fanatic nor a fool. He was aware of the beheading of John the Baptist and he knew of the tragic fates of many prophets before him. Also, many of the charges levelled against Jesus--casting out demons in the name of Beelzebub, being a false prophet, breaking the sabbath, the accusation of blasphemy--were traditionally punishable through death by stoning.

Consequently, there can be no doubt that Jesus' journey to Jerusalem was the result of a deliberate and conscious decision to face danger including the danger of death itself. He knew of the growing opposition to him and his mission. Yet, despite this, he chose to make the trip to Jerusalem at the time of the Passover, a time when huge masses of people would be gathered in the city.

Why would Jesus make such a dangerous choice? The decision to go to Jerusalem marks the end of Jesus' Galilean ministry. It acts as a symbolic gesture of his explicit refusal to accept the way of a political messiah. In spite of this, the disciples still pin their hopes on a worldly kingdom. Jesus' frustration with their blindness becomes a recurring theme in the gospel narratives of the Jerusalem journey. People may hail him as a wonder-worker, king or messiah, but they still fail to comprehend his real message and mission.

Jesus discerns that his mission of proclaiming God's reign on earth will not be achieved through more of the same. Different strategies are needed. We see that Jesus becomes more confrontational in his approach (the temple scene); the radical edge to his teaching becomes more central. Jerusalem, the symbolic centre of Israel, was the logical place for Jesus to take his message. Perhaps Jesus thought that the religious capital would be more open to his teaching. His triumphant ride into Jerusalem suggests an initial enthusiasm--but, again, the people are disillusioned when they learn that Jesus does not intend to be a political messiah of their making.

In fact, the tide quickly turns. The hailed one becomes the decried one! There would still be opportunity for Jesus to retreat. However, by now he knew that a retreat from Jerusalem would be the retreat from his mission of proclaiming God's reign of love and mercy for all. In any case, he was too well known; there was little chance of hiding in the Galilean hills. And to take the escapist option of renouncing his mission was not a line of action that Jesus would countenance. So, in the face of an increasingly hostile opposition, Jesus grows to accept that the remote possibility of death has become an impending probability. Then the realisation dawns that there is no escape; death is certain.

Notwithstanding the violent death that Jesus was to undergo, he was also faced with the inevitable question of how to reconcile this impending reality with the message of God's love and salvation. How could the God of love allow such a painful and violent death? How could the reign of God be achieved through such evil and injustice? Jesus, who understood himself at least in terms of God's special envoy, could not have avoided facing such questions.

In assessing Jesus' response, we should be careful to avoid two extremes. First, we should distance ourselves from the approach that says that Jesus went to his death with feelings of despair and total abandonment by God. The words of the psalm attributed to Jesus on the Cross--"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"--, even if historical, need to be read in terms of the complete psalm which is, ultimately, a prayer of trust in God despite the evil that surrounds us. Jesus' whole life was lived in the belief of God's utter fidelity. Such belief would not abandon Jesus even in these most tragic circumstances of his bloody crucifixion.

Second, it is most important that we do not paint Jesus going to his death as a passive victim who was blindly fulfilling some pre-ordained divine plan. It is wrong to think that the human, historical Jesus had some kind of immediate access to God's will for him. Jesus made his life-decisions in the way that we all do: in the face of uncertainty and risk. He prays that he will come to know the Father's will and make the right decisions in view of his prayer and discernment. Aware of the risks, Jesus had made the crucial decision to take his mission to the heart of Judaism. Now he knows he must live with the consequences of that decision, including death itself.

The events surrounding the last supper and the agony in the garden are recorded in such a way to show that Jesus went to his death freely and deliberately--not because he actively chose death itself, but because he continued to commit himself to the mission of the kingdom in the face of opposition and evil. The act of the cup and bread at the 'last supper' symbolises the totality of Jesus' life, a life lived in loving service of others. Now Jesus is challenged to integrate the failure of his mission and his impending death into his life of 'service in love'. In other words, Jesus' death was marked by the same attitude that constituted his entire life. Perhaps Jesus simply believed that the promises of God would be fulfilled despite his death and the apparent failure of his mission. Or it may be that Jesus saw in a veiled way that his death would be a 'ransom for many', that is, an event that God would use to bring about the kingdom-community of justice, love and peace.




Interpreting Jesus' death

In the early Jesus-movement, the suffering and death of Jesus came to be interpreted in many different ways. For some, the death of Jesus was seen as a sign that he was the eschatological prophet-martyr. After all, the Jewish tradition is full of stories of in which the true prophets are killed. The fact that Jesus was killed shows that he is the true prophet-martyr, in fact, the definitive or eschatological figure. This interpretation did not ascribe any particular theological significance to Jesus' death. It is Jesus himself, his person and mission, that is the central focus. Jesus' death merely shows that he is the one who is the 'true light of the world'.

Another interpretation focussed on the suffering of Jesus as an indication that he was the 'righteous one', the suffering Son of Man. Before prophets are killed, they are rejected and despised. Here there is a tendency to see suffering as the hallmark of God's endorsement of the true prophet. Consequently, Jesus' suffering is read in accordance with the divine plan of salvation. However, within this approach, the death of Jesus does not figure with any degree of prominence and is not, in itself, theologically important.

A third approach, however, did focus primarily on Jesus' death as a redemptive and atoning act. This is summarized in the Pauline formula which states that Jesus 'died for us on account of our sins' (Romans 4:25). The understanding developed that Jesus' suffering and death were 'saving realities'. This meant that the focus of attention moved from the person and mission of Jesus to the cross as an 'atoning sacrifice'. From this there develops a theology of salvation that is centred on the crucifixion and which reads the cross as a positive act of God which 'expiated the sins of the world'.

These various interpretations of Jesus' death witness to the struggle to make meaning out of the act of evil that brought Jesus' earthly life and mission to such an abrupt and cruel end. However we make sense of this human tragedy, it is imperative that we do see it first and foremost as a tragedy. Then, of course, we may well recognise that God can and does overturn evil and convert it into good. This is what came to be called in the Christian tradition the 'law of the cross'. Nonetheless, God does not condone evil, let alone require it in order to fulfill the divine plan of salvation. The suffering and death of Jesus, along with all other instances of violence and murder, are ultimately outside the powers of rational explanation. The most we can do is to acknowledge in faith that the mystery of God's love is finally more powerful than evil and death. Jesus' death, too, needs to be recognised in this light.


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## Thanatos (Apr 19, 2010)

I thought the main difference was that Jesus was the only religious figure to want a personal relationship with his believers???


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## tell sackett (Apr 21, 2010)

1kruger said:


> As for a sinner it is not stated that ALL men are sinners


 Start with Rom.3:23 and go from there.

As for the "killing" of Jesus, John chapter 10.


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## 1kruger (Apr 21, 2010)

*question, Tell*



tell sackett said:


> Start with Rom.3:23 and go from there.
> 
> As for the "killing" of Jesus, John chapter 10.



So you agree that all men are sinners that is the bases of Rom.3:23.

As for the killing of Jesus, I am lost as to your quote of John chapter 10.
The text I posted is acounts collected from written and oral history of the reasons of the crucifiction of Jesus. If you do not agree with the history then state why did Pilot condem him to be crucified. Go ahead and  quote which scripture I need to read. I really did not make the connection between John chapter10 and the crucifiction of Jesus.


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## tell sackett (Apr 21, 2010)

God doesn't sin.

Did you read John10?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2010)

1kruger said:


> So you agree that all men are sinners that is the bases of Rom.3:23.
> 
> As for the killing of Jesus, I am lost as to your quote of John chapter 10.
> The text I posted is acounts collected from written and oral history of the reasons of the crucifiction of Jesus. If you do not agree with the history then state why did Pilot condem him to be crucified. Go ahead and quote which scripture I need to read. I really did not make the connection between John chapter10 and the crucifiction of Jesus.


 
Pilot made the ruling, based on the will of the people.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Pilot made the ruling, based on the will of the people.



the will of the people aint worth skank... Pilate (Pilate did not work for AirTran...) did what he did with Jesus because it was written in the Scripture... God fulfilled Scripture using Pilate as a pawn...  the people that hate Christ are nothing more than pawns in a spiritual game of chess...  God rules... men stink.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> the will of the people aint worth skank... Pilate (Pilate did not work for AirTran...)


 
touche` 



BeenHuntn said:


> God fulfilled Scripture using Pilate as a pawn... the people that hate Christ are nothing more than pawns in a spiritual game of chess... God rules... men stink.


 
So who chose the men that translated the Bible and chose which books should be in there? God? or other men????


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> So who chose the men that translated the Bible and chose which books should be in there? God? or other men????



do you know what 'translate' means? it means to put into another language.... thats it!. how hard is it to take something in greek and put into english? shouldnt be that hard...

anyway, dont you think God is capable of anything...? He is capable of preserving the Scripture and has promised that He would...  He said His Words would never pass away... never is never. so who are we to say that His words would pass away?? i myself will never say such. if you want to question His promises... thats your call. i wont go down that road. everything that He has promised would happen has happened or will soon happen. i would rather follow God, than question God... but hey, thats just me.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> do you know what 'translate' means? it means to put into another language.... thats it!. how hard is it to take something in greek and put into english? shouldnt be that hard...
> 
> anyway, dont you think God is capable of anything...? He is capable of preserving the Scripture and has promised that He would... He said His Words would never pass away... never is never. so who are we to say that His words would pass away?? i myself will never say such. if you want to question His promises... thats your call. i wont go down that road. everything that He has promised would happen has happened or will soon happen. i would rather follow God, than question God... but hey, thats just me.


 
You sure do take lots of liberties in your responses. Wanna try and be a bit more concise and little less bombastic?


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## centerpin fan (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> So who chose the men that translated the Bible and chose which books should be in there? God? or other men????




You might be interested in this thread:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=416079


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> You sure do take lots of liberties in your responses. Wanna try and be a bit more concise and little less bombastic?



no, i have no desire to be less vocal. sorry.

Luke 19:40
And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.  the stones... are His sheep. just an fyi.

are you gonna answer the questions? is God not able to preserve His Word like He promised? you are just like the atheists here... instead of answering a biblical question with a biblical answer... you attack the person asking you a question.... hmmm.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 21, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> no, i have no desire to be less vocal. sorry.
> 
> Luke 19:40
> And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. the stones... are His sheep. just an fyi.
> ...


 
Sort of like watchin a dog chase his tail. You never really answered mine. And Scripture quotes aren't an answer, they are a reference to your sentiment.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Sort of like watchin a dog chase his tail. You never really answered mine. And Scripture quotes aren't an answer, they are a reference to your sentiment.



Scripture is the answer for every sin, every problem, every issue, and every sinner... its a shame that the folks who profess to believe and follow the Scripture... actually are opposed to the Scripture....


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## 1kruger (Apr 22, 2010)

*WOW!!!!!  freakin unbelievable*



BeenHuntn said:


> the will of the people aint worth skank... Pilate (Pilate did not work for AirTran...) did what he did with Jesus because it was written in the Scripture... God fulfilled Scripture using Pilate as a pawn...  the people that hate Christ are nothing more than pawns in a spiritual game of chess...  God rules... men stink.



So the according to you  The bible you quote the KJV was written before Jesus was crucified.  Why are so STUPID and BLINDED. As stated you refuse to answer a question. Sripture is not the answer to "everything", It is a way to seek an answer.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 22, 2010)

1kruger said:


> So the according to you  The bible you quote the KJV was written before Jesus was crucified.  Why are so STUPID and BLINDED. As stated you refuse to answer a question. Sripture is not the answer to "everything", It is a way to seek an answer.



no, the KJ was not written before Jesus. but the Word of God has always existed and always will (Matt 24:35)...  the Word of God became Scripture and Scripture became the Bible which took thousands of years to complete...

just this morning alone, you have called me 'fanatic, stupid and blinded' not to mention 'satanic' in a previous thread... you may want to consider the following command of God...

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of helll fire.


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## 1kruger (Apr 22, 2010)

*I am sorry please forgive me.*



BeenHuntn said:


> no, the KJ was not written before Jesus. but the Word of God has always existed and always will (Matt 24:35)...  the Word of God became Scripture and Scripture became the Bible which took thousands of years to complete...
> 
> just this morning alone, you have called me 'fanatic, stupid and blinded' not to mention 'satanic' in a previous thread... you may want to consider the following command of God...
> 
> ...


My appoligies, please forgive me, this was not ment personaly, But an opinion and i will keep them to myself.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 22, 2010)

1kruger said:


> My appoligies, please forgive me, this was not ment personaly, But an opinion and i will keep them to myself.



it's all good...


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## Dominic (Apr 22, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> just this morning alone, you have called me 'fanatic, stupid and blinded' not to mention 'satanic' in a previous thread... you may want to consider the following command of God...


 
Irony not just for clothes anymore


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