# Atheist Experience



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

Many of the same excellent points have been brought up here but this pretty well sums it up.


----------



## bullethead (Mar 16, 2011)

Spot On


----------



## vowell462 (Mar 16, 2011)

fantastic video


----------



## ambush80 (Mar 16, 2011)

Shooting fish in a barrel.  That caller was woefully outgunned.  Like an adult playing basketball against a 5 year old...hard.


----------



## applejuice (Mar 16, 2011)

I like the part when he was asking how old the Earth is. 
Great video


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Shooting fish in a barrel.  That caller was woefully outgunned.  Like an adult playing basketball against a 5 year old...hard.



100% agree, I have seen these two goobs before and it was the same thing, talk to every caller they can that they know cant answer their questions the way they want them answered to make themeselves look good. I would be willing to bet everyone that calls this show that they can sniff out any sense of intelligence get "accidentally" hung up on. They are probably lining their pockets with gullible peoples money just like some of the "preachers" you guys have called out on here.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> 100% agree, I have seen these two goobs before and it was the same thing, talk to every caller they can that they know cant answer their questions the way they want them answered to make themeselves look good. I would be willing to bet everyone that calls this show that they can sniff out any sense of intelligence get "accidentally" hung up on. They are probably lining their pockets with gullible peoples money just like some of the "preachers" you guys have called out on here.



Maybe you should call in and see if you get hung up on.


----------



## applejuice (Mar 16, 2011)

I agree with what you guys are saying, if a "big" name tv evangelist would go on the show , it would be interesting conversation. I've never heard of these guys before so I can't comment on how they normally take calls.


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Maybe you should call in and see if you get hung up on.


They would let me through, I dont have the smarts to talk with these guys.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

What would a big name tv evangelist have to gain by calling in to this show? The outcome would be the same and they would lose face.


----------



## bullethead (Mar 16, 2011)

The caller in that video is a fair representation of the majority of Christians that I have known. I appreciate a good in depth conversation about religion but I have found that most people have no idea what their true stance is once the conversation gets in depth. Most will quote scripture to use as fact. When asked to give an example outside of scripture, they cannot. Most when presented with facts that contradict what they are trying to preach do not ever answer the question, instead they change the subject. If they give an answer at all it is usually "Faith" or " The Lord works in mysterious ways". Most will get mad and almost violent when the conversation gets too deep for them to answer OR when they feel that their beliefs are becoming threatened by common sense. It is rare to find someone that can hold their own and do it civilly without it turning into a battle.
I know I am new to these boards. I enjoy hunting and shooting. I am a participating member of a few outdoor/hunting/shooting forums, and know a few guys that regularly contribute to the GON turkey forum. I can also say that the biggest surprise of this site was the Spiritual Help and Religious Discussions forums. I could not believe my eyes to see it was broken down into sub-forums that allow and encourage discussions outside of the Christianity box. Kudos to the mods! I am also happy to see a few Christians that frequent the A/A/A forum do so with respect to others thoughts and beliefs and hold their replies to discussions without name calling. Again while I am new here and have yet to read everything and get to know more people on here that share similar beliefs as mine but also I'd like to thank stringmusic and Cal for keeping it interesting, respectful and sharing their knowledge and personal beliefs without turning it into a brawl like I have seen on other forums. 

Matt


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> What would a big name tv evangelist have to gain by calling in to this show? The outcome would be the same and they would lose face.



Right, nooooooooooooobody can theologically debate these two ding dongs


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

bullethead said:


> The caller in that video is a fair representation of the majority of Christians that I have known. I appreciate a good in depth conversation about religion but I have found that most people have no idea what their true stance is once the conversation gets in depth. Most will quote scripture to use as fact. When asked to give an example outside of scripture, they cannot. Most when presented with facts that contradict what they are trying to preach do not ever answer the question, instead they change the subject. If they give an answer at all it is usually "Faith" or " The Lord works in mysterious ways". Most will get mad and almost violent when the conversation gets too deep for them to answer OR when they feel that their beliefs are becoming threatened by common sense. It is rare to find someone that can hold their own and do it civilly without it turning into a battle.
> I know I am new to these boards. I enjoy hunting and shooting. I am a participating member of a few outdoor/hunting/shooting forums, and know a few guys that regularly contribute to the GON turkey forum. I can also say that the biggest surprise of this site was the Spiritual Help and Religious Discussions forums. I could not believe my eyes to see it was broken down into sub-forums that allow and encourage discussions outside of the Christianity box. Kudos to the mods! I am also happy to see a few Christians that frequent the A/A/A forum do so with respect to others thoughts and beliefs and hold their replies to discussions without name calling. Again while I am new here and have yet to read everything and get to know more people on here that share similar beliefs as mine but also I'd like to thank stringmusic and Cal for keeping it interesting, respectful and sharing their knowledge and personal beliefs without turning it into a brawl like I have seen on other forums.
> 
> Matt


----------



## ambush80 (Mar 16, 2011)

bullethead said:


> The caller in that video is a fair representation of the majority of Christians that I have known. I appreciate a good in depth conversation about religion but I have found that most people have no idea what their true stance is once the conversation gets in depth. Most will quote scripture to use as fact. When asked to give an example outside of scripture, they cannot. Most when presented with facts that contradict what they are trying to preach do not ever answer the question, instead they change the subject. If they give an answer at all it is usually "Faith" or " The Lord works in mysterious ways". Most will get mad and almost violent when the conversation gets too deep for them to answer OR when they feel that their beliefs are becoming threatened by common sense. It is rare to find someone that can hold their own and do it civilly without it turning into a battle.
> I know I am new to these boards. I enjoy hunting and shooting. I am a participating member of a few outdoor/hunting/shooting forums, and know a few guys that regularly contribute to the GON turkey forum. I can also say that the biggest surprise of this site was the Spiritual Help and Religious Discussions forums. I could not believe my eyes to see it was broken down into sub-forums that allow and encourage discussions outside of the Christianity box. Kudos to the mods! I am also happy to see a few Christians that frequent the A/A/A forum do so with respect to others thoughts and beliefs and hold their replies to discussions without name calling. Again while I am new here and have yet to read everything and get to know more people on here that share similar beliefs as mine but also I'd like to thank stringmusic and Cal for keeping it interesting, respectful and sharing their knowledge and personal beliefs without turning it into a brawl like I have seen on other forums.
> 
> Matt



There's some good campfire talk that goes on here to be sure, but eventually all roads lead to the "faith" impasse.  At that point we just get up off our stump, get in our tents and wake up to go hunt in the morning.



stringmusic said:


> 100% agree, I have seen these two goobs before and it was the same thing, talk to every caller they can that they know cant answer their questions the way they want them answered to make themeselves look good. I would be willing to bet everyone that calls this show that they can sniff out any sense of intelligence get "accidentally" hung up on. They are probably lining their pockets with gullible peoples money just like some of the "preachers" you guys have called out on here.



No one, no matter how smart they are, will be able to offer a rational explanation for their faith, whatever that faith may be.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Right, nooooooooooooobody can theologically debate these two ding dongs



I'm not saying there aren't more educated theologians but it always boils down to the same thing. The theist asserts God, atheist asks for evidence, bogus evidence is offered and refuted, theist takes refuge in faith, discussion is over. It happens regularly on that show and regularly on this forum. The whole point of faith is to accept a proposition without evidence. If theists had good evidence, faith would be completely unnecessary. And what Matt says about the way this supposed message from God is conveyed is right on the money.

You want to hear an educated theologian that is one of the best christians have to offer debate listen to William Lane Craig debate Bart Ehrman on the historicity of the resurrection. He doesn't _sound_ as pathetic as that caller but he still gets shredded and is left proselytizing the audience and falling back on faith and personal experience because in the end that's all they have. And if that is what you're depending on then just like Matt said, you may as well take up one religion as another.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

Hey string, not that it's a fair match up but you want to watch an entertaining debate you should check out the one between Christopher Hitchens and "the reverend" Al Sharpton.


----------



## ambush80 (Mar 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I'm not saying there aren't more educated theologians but it always boils down to the same thing. The theist asserts God, atheist asks for evidence, bogus evidence is offered and refuted, theist takes refuge in faith, discussion is over. It happens regularly on that show and regularly on this forum. The whole point of faith is to accept a proposition without evidence. If theists had good evidence, faith would be completely unnecessary. And what Matt says about the way this supposed message from God is conveyed is right on the money.
> 
> You want to hear an educated theologian that is one of the best christians have to offer debate listen to William Lane Craig debate Bart Ehrman on the historicity of the resurrection. He doesn't _sound_ as pathetic as that caller but he still gets shredded and is left proselytizing the audience and falling back on faith and personal experience because in the end that's all they have. And if that is what you're depending on then just like Matt said, you may as well take up one religion as another.



So what are we doing?  We always come to the same impasse.  I think I know what the Christians are doing.  They are hoping that one of us heathens will feel the touch of the Almighty and accept the Gospel on faith.  As for me, I see some pretty intelligent people saying that they believe in unicorns and I can' help but jump in and say "Really?  C'mon, Dude.  You know better."


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Hey string, not that it's a fair match up but you want to watch an entertaining debate you should check out the one between Christopher Hitchens and "the reverend" Al Sharpton.



I wouldnt waste my eyeball juice on that one


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> There's some good campfire talk that goes on here to be sure, but eventually all roads lead to the "faith" impasse.  At that point we just get up off our stump, get in our tents and wake up to go hunt in the morning.
> 
> 
> 
> No one, no matter how smart they are, will be able to offer a rational explanation for their faith, whatever that faith may be.


You or atlas ever listen to any Ravi Zacharias?


----------



## vowell462 (Mar 16, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> You or atlas ever listen to any Ravi Zacharias?



I havent, but if it can give me a logical explanation on why you believe what you do, then Im all ears. Ive yet to get a clear answer that makes sense.


----------



## CAL (Mar 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> So what are we doing?  We always come to the same impasse.  I think I know what the Christians are doing.  They are hoping that one of us heathens will feel the touch of the Almighty and accept the Gospel on faith.  As for me, I see some pretty intelligent people saying that they believe in unicorns and I can' help but jump in and say "Really?  C'mon, Dude.  You know better."



EXACTLY,this is what we Christians are trying to get across to everyone about God "really?C'mon,Dude.You know better".And I must add "Oh yea of little Faith"!


----------



## johnnylightnin (Mar 16, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Hey string, not that it's a fair match up but you want to watch an entertaining debate you should check out the one between Christopher Hitchens and "the reverend" Al Sharpton.



seen the one between Hitchens and William Lane Craig? I think you'd find it interesting.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 16, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> You or atlas ever listen to any Ravi Zacharias?



I haven't heard him at length but he is featured in this video starting about the 1 minute mark. I take it he impresses you?

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vyd6om8IC4M?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vyd6om8IC4M?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>


----------



## CAL (Mar 17, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> There's some good campfire talk that goes on here to be sure, but eventually all roads lead to the "faith" impasse.  At that point we just get up off our stump, get in our tents and wake up to go hunt in the morning.
> 
> 
> 
> .



hey ambush,just when I was beginning to like you you done shot yaself in tha foot!
Man,faith is all er Christian has to fall back on.They have nothing else.Now fore ya start with ya falt finding.Go and read er little about what Gods word says about being a Christian.Requirements is sorta like here at Woody's,follow the rules and ya alright.break tha rules enough and nobody forgives"ya hit tha road Jack".
The Bible says "Believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God,died for our sins and rose again on the third day.Have the FAITH of a mustard seed and believe".Keep on making mistakes and the Lord will continue to forgive you everyone hopes.Woody's rules are pretty simple to understand and so are the Lords.Folks break both of the Lords and Woody's except at Woody's ya banned after 3 infractions.

Just wonder why our Lord said to have the Faith of a mustard seed instead of say er.........coconut.Recon it was because er mustard seed is so tiny that God meant ya didn't have to have a lots of faith,just a little bit?What I think anyway.What do you think atheist?


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm sure I have Johnny but it's been a while since I saw that one. One thing I noticed about Craig is in a debate he will use historicity of the resurrection as evidence for God. Then when he debates Ehrman he assumes God in order to support the historicity of the resurrection.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

Cal did you watch the video?


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I haven't heard him at length but he is featured in this video starting about the 1 minute mark. I take it he impresses you?
> 
> <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vyd6om8IC4M?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vyd6om8IC4M?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>



I watched about 4 mins of that cause that is all I have time for right now. The video has a slight bias I would say Try listening to on of his lectures in full, anyone can take a few clips of someone else and make them look stupid. Ravi travels the globe and has talked and given lectures to some of the highest religious figures in the world, including  a speach to the united nations. My point is, is not just some 'dumb creationist' like was made out in the video. RZIM motto "helping the thinker believe, helping the believer think"


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

If you'll post a video of his you want me to watch I'll take the time to watch it. If he had anything more persuasive than what we get from others like Craig or D'Souza I would think they would be using the same but you never know. Has he debated any prominent atheists?


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> If you'll post a video of his you want me to watch I'll take the time to watch it. If he had anything more persuasive than what we get from others like Craig or D'Souza I would think they would be using the same but you never know. Has he debated any prominent atheists?



Ravi has debated Richard Dawkins at one point, and he a Craig have another debate on youtube under 'is there meaning in evil and suffering'. You can also type 'Ravi Zacharias debates_____' and others will pop up. I also have a thread on here ' need God? What if I dont?' that is interesting to me.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

Post a link to whichever one you think is his best material.


----------



## johnnylightnin (Mar 17, 2011)

It's two hours...just warning you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBx4vvlbZ8


----------



## Achilles Return (Mar 17, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> 100% agree, I have seen these two goobs before and it was the same thing, talk to every caller they can that they know cant answer their questions the way they want them answered to make themeselves look good. I would be willing to bet everyone that calls this show that they can sniff out any sense of intelligence get "accidentally" hung up on. They are probably lining their pockets with gullible peoples money just like some of the "preachers" you guys have called out on here.



It's highly ironic that you're doing exactly what they were discussing. Since they're 'atheists', clearly they must be 'goobs' who try to make themselves look good. There's no way they could be moral, they have to be mean!


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Post a link to whichever one you think is his best material.


I dont really have what I think is his best, he's got alot of good stuff, listen to the one in my other thread


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

Achilles Return said:


> It's highly ironic that you're doing exactly what they were discussing. Since they're 'atheists', clearly they must be 'goobs' who try to make themselves look good.


It pretty clear they were, and my opinion is their goobers.






> There's no way they could be *moral*, they have to be mean!


I never mentioned their morality. I simply stated they, in this particular instance, took a caller that was clearly outguned. Its the callers fault for looking stupid as well though.


----------



## Achilles Return (Mar 17, 2011)

But your is assumption is that they're trying to deceive people by purposely talking to morons. You're telling yourself that to make dismissing them easier, and it's _exactly_ what they were talking about - You walked into it without even a second thought. 

It's also pretty telling that this is the specific item from the video you focused on. How about actually responding to the points they raised instead of focusing on their character?


----------



## stringmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

Achilles Return said:


> But your is assumption is that they're trying to deceive people by* purposely talking to morons.*


You didnt see that in the video? Both the guys in the video clearly seen the caller was inadequate with his answers, yet instead of getting a caller that may have been able to answer the question more intelligently, they kept talking.



> You're telling yourself that to make dismissing them easier, and it's _exactly_ what they were talking about - You walked into it without even a second thought.


Im did not dismiss them, I stated they could/should have taken better calls. 



> It's also pretty telling that this is the specific item from the video you focused on. How about actually responding to the points they raised instead of focusing on their character?



we have talked, at length, about the points in the video.


----------



## JFS (Mar 17, 2011)

That (the one atlashunter posted in #23) was a good video.


----------



## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Mar 17, 2011)

That was pretty good.  Kinda funny when he hung up.  You know he felt like crying to his mommy because he has been lied too for years.  Probably thinking about all the money he gave to the church...coulda bought a new truck a few times.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

String I'm curious how you would have answered their questions. What do you think the caller should have said differently?


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

Here are two videos of Zacharias answering questions related to the original video. I'm not seeing any new arguments here stringmusic. I looked for video of him in actual debate but didn't find any.


----------



## ted_BSR (Mar 17, 2011)

I made it through 7 minutes. Same old YouTube banter. It amazes me that folks like this can't bring themselves to believe in the Bible in the stead of Science. They are screaming that it is not logical. Logic is a system invented by man. Of course it is not logical, for it is NOT of man. It is faith based because it is based on a love that we are not capable of. That is the entire point, and this video makes that point very well.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

Readily apparent that you didn't watch the whole video.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Mar 17, 2011)

That was so funny when he said Christians while doing good at a homless shelter use a sandwich as ransom.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Mar 17, 2011)

The guy on the right was a good debater. Keep his head. In summary, of what they spoke about, not that there wasn't much more, They focused alot on the sickness of the burn in heil theory.


----------



## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Mar 17, 2011)

I sent this video to a friend of mine who is religious and he called me a few minutes ago while I was ranting about getting the ten commandments and he said and I quote "there is so much that can't be proven, which is why you got to believe and have faith".  He then said "what if your wrong and I am right"?   I said "good point but if I am right and your wrong, at least I didn't give away so much money to a glorified business".  He did not respond, just changed the subject.  Haha


----------



## ted_BSR (Mar 17, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Readily apparent that you didn't watch the whole video.



I am sure I would be deconverted if I had. It was THAT compelling.

Garbage.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

11P&YBOWHUNTER said:


> I sent this video to a friend of mine who is religious and he called me a few minutes ago while I was ranting about getting the ten commandments and he said and I quote "there is so much that can't be proven, which is why you got to believe and have faith".



I wonder if he would say that holds true about all religions. It just doesn't sink in with them.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Mar 17, 2011)

Thinking about that video, so typical. Like going to war with a BB gun, all your gonna do is agitate them. What makes it worse is that they expect to take hostages not knowing they are armed


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 17, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Thinking about that video, so typical. Like going to war with a BB gun, all your gonna do is agitate them. What makes it worse is that they expect to take hostages not knowing they are armed


----------



## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Mar 18, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I wonder if he would say that holds true about all religions. It just doesn't sink in with them.



Their brainwashed.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Mar 18, 2011)

atlashunter said:


>


Probably strange coming from a Christian, But don't they always, in their narrow minded immaturity, actually think they are gonna accomplish something and then get their butt kicked by a bigger gun.


----------



## atlashunter (Mar 18, 2011)

11P&YBOWHUNTER said:


> Their brainwashed.



When you consider all the various deities that humans have just had faith and believed in over time, most of which are now only mentioned in history books, you have to wonder how anyone can look at that and do the same thing without pause.


----------

