# Does prayer change God?



## Artfuldodger (Apr 12, 2012)

I wanted to share this article on the power of prayer. I believe you can chage God's mind by praying.
      exerpt:  But nothing could be plainer about the God of the Bible: he hears prayer, he is moved by prayer, he responds to prayer, he changes his mind when people pray.

http://www.faith-theology.com/2006/08/does-prayer-change-god.html


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 12, 2012)

Does prayer change God's will?
exerpt: Well, if prayer doesn't change (at the least) God's actions, then why pray? And If you pray, believing that prayer changes things, then what does it change?
http://prayertalk.blogspot.com/2009/04/does-prayer-change-gods-will.html


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## Ronnie T (Apr 12, 2012)

Good.
Yes.  God responds to prayer.


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## StriperAddict (Apr 12, 2012)

The great thing about prayer is that God starts to change US.


And the great thing I find about God is that He does indeed change 
His mind when mercy has a chance.

We may start out asking God to take the monkey off our backs in 
some hurtful situation, only to find He wishes US to walk thru that 
burden in Christs' strength and come out on the other side with 
our faith enlarged, our behavior changed, our character corrected.


Jonah is a perfect example. I'm sure Jonah wanted God to crush 
those nasty Ninevites, as they were a sore wicked bunch, the 
whole lot of em'!  Funny how God chose Jonah to go and tell the 
city that it would be destroyed!  But Jonah knew God enough to 
know if the Ninevites responded and repented, then God would 
change the outcome from them, from judgement to mercy. 

And when the Ninevites were spared as they cried out to God, 
Jonah still didn't get "all of it"...  and still complained.  And God still 
came thru with the lesson of His mercy demonstrating it with a 
tree that provided shade to the mixed up prophet. 


In the place of prayer there will usually be a struggle with your will 
and God's. Gosh, that happens to me all the time! Don't be afraid 
if the prayer answer isn't always what you'd expect.  God usually 
has something bigger and better.  That nasty neighbor of yours 
might well be the one to recieve the love and mercy of God in a 
situation you feel requires wrath.  God loves mercy, and will enjoy 
_turning_ in _THAT_ direction every time.


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## gtparts (Apr 12, 2012)

Let's be clear. There is no wavering or shift in God's character, nor the principles He has authored. He is, however, open to being moved to make changes in His will, based on the petition(s) of His children. Indeed, it is completely within His nature (that of love, mercy and grace) to respond to the petitions that we make, that mirror His heart. The more we are transformed into the individuals we were created to be, the more our will reflects the perfect will of God.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 12, 2012)

Sometimes the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 12, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Sometimes the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.



Amen


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## mtnwoman (Apr 13, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Sometimes the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.



No kiddin'

God please let me find a husband.
How about this one?........no
This one?........no
Please let this one be the one.....uh nope.
Ok then  help me provide for myself.......yes! Hallelujah!


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## mtnwoman (Apr 13, 2012)

Romans 8:26
King James Version (KJV)

 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Thank you God for the Holy Spirit, who intercedes for us when we don't even know what we need....or what we should pray for. And usually I don't even know what I need....i don't even know what to pray for....but the HS knows me and intercedes for me.....this is a powerful scripture for me. Didn't Jesus leave the HS as our comforter?

Lately my moanings and groanings have been so deep that I don't even know what to pray for. Deep pain has surrounded me in the past few weeks....pain I cannot express....so I need intercession for someone who can express what my groanings to God are....and that is the Holy Spirit.


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## WELLS8230 (Apr 13, 2012)

halleluja, give me mercy and not justice!


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## WELLS8230 (Apr 13, 2012)

And all the members say; AMEN!


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## hummerpoo (Apr 13, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Romans 8:26
> King James Version (KJV)
> 
> 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
> ...



Does prayer change God?  Answering that question is way above my pay grade, but you would have to be blind not to know that it is a necessity for His children.  But you expessed that far beyond my poor skills.


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## THREEJAYS (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes there are examples in scripture where he was going to do one thing and ended up doing as he was asked.Thanks be to God for the way he chose to deal w/ mankind.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 13, 2012)

I've read so much about how prayer can't change God's mind because he has already layed out a big master plan from the beginning and the verse that says "God never changes". I think that means he never changes his, for lack of a better word personality.
I've also read that the only reason to pray is because God commanded us to. I don't think God has a self esteem problem so therefore prayer is more than a chore. Don't get me wrong, prayers should always include thanks and honor in our request. Jesus said pray to the Father in my name. I feel the same way Jesus felt about his father: My Father is greater than I.


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## hummerpoo (Apr 13, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've read so much about how prayer can't change God's mind because he has already layed out a big master plan from the beginning and the verse that says "God never changes". I think that means he never changes his, for lack of a better word personality.
> I've also read that the only reason to pray is because God commanded us to. I don't think God has a self esteem problem so therefore prayer is more than a chore. Don't get me wrong, prayers should always include thanks and honor in our request. Jesus said pray to the Father in my name. I feel the same way Jesus felt about his father: My Father is greater than I.



When the conversation turns to anything about God which even hints of speculation I suggest consideration of Job 38 thru to the end of the book (actually I usually end up backing up a chapter or two).  God is not within our grasp, we are within His.

How does "prayer is a means of grace" sound.  I probably heard that somewhere.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 13, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> When the conversation turns to anything about God which even hints of speculation I suggest consideration of Job 38 thru to the end of the book (actually I usually end up backing up a chapter or two).  God is not within our grasp, we are within His.
> 
> How does "prayer is a means of grace" sound.  I probably heard that somewhere.



Oh you've really opened it up now.
Prayer is one of the greatest gifts God has given us.  To be able to speak to God.  To address Him.  
It's a monumental grace.


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## Michael F. Gray (Apr 14, 2012)

Prayer does not change the Almighty. He is the same yesterday, today, and tommorow. He changes not. He created us for fellowship. It ,[Prayer], aligns us with his will. Truth is the Word of God teaches he know what we need even before we ask him for it. But he wishes for us to ask. All of our Blessings come from above. That realization sets the stage for OUR relationship wit hour CREATOR to improve.


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## StriperAddict (Apr 14, 2012)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Prayer does not change the Almighty. He is the same yesterday, today, and tommorrow. He changes not. He created us for fellowship. It ,[Prayer], aligns us with his will. Truth is the Word of God teaches he know what we need even before we ask him for it. But he wishes for us to ask. All of our Blessings come from above. That realization sets the stage for OUR relationship with our CREATOR to improve.



Well said... thanks, especially the all from above part.  "Fix your eyes on things above"


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## polkhunt (Apr 26, 2012)

A pastor I know made a great point about prayer and that is to never take prayer half hearted or for granted a man had to die on a cross to give us that ability to communicate with God.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 26, 2012)

polkhunt said:


> A pastor I know made a great point about prayer and that is to never take prayer half hearted or for granted a man had to die on a cross to give us that ability to communicate with God.



People didn't talk to God before Jesus dying on the cross?


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## polkhunt (Apr 28, 2012)

In short no they did not.


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## StriperAddict (Apr 29, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> People didn't talk to God before Jesus dying on the cross?


 


polkhunt said:


> In short no they did not.


 


*Genesis 20:17*
Abraham *prayed* to God, and God healed Abimelech and his wife and his maids, so that they bore children.
*Genesis 25:21*
Isaac *prayed* to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+25:20-22&version=NASB*Numbers 11:2*
The people therefore cried out to Moses, and Moses *prayed* to the LORD and the fire died out.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+11:1-3&version=NASB


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## fish hawk (Apr 29, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Sometimes the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.



Yes,it's always important to remember to pray for God's will and not our own!!!


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## gordon 2 (Apr 29, 2012)

I am thinking of the difference between a noun and a verb and yet how they can be the same entity.

The noun does not change the meaning on an entity, it always is indicative of the same entity. The verb is the meaning for some action.

I suppose that prayer does not change who God is but may well change what He does, especially. Especially from the perspective of the prayer as the author states. 

he Holy Spirit is both an entity ( unchanging) and an actor ( changing).


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 29, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> I am thinking of the difference between a noun and a verb and yet how they can be the same entity.
> 
> The noun does not change the meaning on an entity, it always is indicative of the same entity. The verb is the meaning for some action.
> 
> ...



You said it way better than I did. That's what I was going for. My post title was not the best in the world.


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## Huntinfool (May 1, 2012)

> I don't think God has a self esteem problem



Well...he created us for the express purpose of worshiping him and bringing glory to his name.

Given that, would you interpret him as having a self-esteem problem?


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## Artfuldodger (May 1, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Well...he created us for the express purpose of worshiping him and bringing glory to his name.
> 
> Given that, would you interpret him as having a self-esteem problem?



Express purpose but not sole purpose. I think it would be similar to a couple having children. To experience his love & affection. Fellowship could be part of it. To watch over his creation.


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## thedeacon (May 3, 2012)

A big part of this discussion is as barron as a hybrid jenny mare.


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## Ronnie T (May 3, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> A big part of this discussion is as barron as a hybrid jenny mare.



Are you insinuating that a jenny cannot have a baby?
Didn't know that.

.


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## thedeacon (May 3, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Are you insinuating that a jenny cannot have a baby?
> Didn't know that.
> 
> .





I am saying very UNPRODUCTIVE.


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## M80 (May 3, 2012)

Why Pray?

Predestination, Our life is like a book that God has already read, but he let us make our on decision's in life, like to be saved or not to be saved.

Therefore in my studies,  he gives us the opportinuty to pray and ask for things like people sick for God to heal them.  If we don't pray then he might not heal them.  It was our choice to pray.  Some people say God will is what God wants so there is no changing his mind.  Wrong, you have not, cause we ask not, the bible says.

Abraham reasoned with God about how many righteous was in Sodom and Gamar.   

Hezikiah prayed for his life to be spared and God spared his life although the prophet told him he was about to die and to get his house in order.

Your not really changing his mind, but maybe it is that his decision's sometimes comes because we pray with FAITH on a certain situation and his will becomes that cause we prayed for it.

Remeber in Act's, Paul was ready to go to Jerusulam and men told him he would die if he returned.  He said he was ready to die and then the men replied The Lord's will be done.  There comes a time in our prayer life that when our prayers are not answered the way we want it comes time to say, Thy will be done.

Forgive me if I didn't spell somethings right here but Prayer is so important in our life's.  I seen some mighty miracle's in my life and I praise the Lord for it.  Hope this helped someone.


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## Ronnie T (May 3, 2012)

It helped me.  Thank you.


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## Mike 65 (May 7, 2012)

I have to believe that prayer can make a difference, wether it be God changing His mind or simply making up His mind. Either way you look at it, it's our only hope, He's our only hope! Especially in hard times when we need to let go and give God control. 

Remember Isaiah 55:8  " For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways , declares the Lord"


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## gemcgrew (May 7, 2012)

Mike 65 said:


> I have to believe that prayer can make a difference, wether it be God changing His mind or simply making up His mind. Either way you look at it, it's our only hope, He's our only hope! Especially in hard times when we need to let go and give God control.



When I read this, I can't but think that if we all get together and build a tower into the heavens, we can overthrow him.


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## thedeacon (May 7, 2012)

Prayer does not change God, It changes us. God has a great desire for us to turn to him, he loves us so much he will go to every end to make our lives more liveable in spite of ourselves.

Do you think God wants us to be miserable, I think not. Prayer is for our good, not Gods.

Prayer changed my Life, not Gods.

Not just my opinion, God bless.


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## Mike 65 (May 7, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> When I read this, I can't but think that if we all get together and build a tower into the heavens, we can overthrow him.



Good luck with that, it didn't work so well last time.


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## gemcgrew (May 7, 2012)

Mike 65 said:


> Good luck with that, it didn't work so well last time.



No, it didn't. Our technology is better today. Perhaps we can get there before he makes his mind up on how to deal with the affront. Or we may catch him off guard and at a time when he is not in control.


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## Mike 65 (May 7, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> When I read this, I can't but think that if we all get together and build a tower into the heavens, we can overthrow him.





gemcgrew said:


> No, it didn't. Our technology is better today. Perhaps we can get there before he makes his mind up on how to deal with the affront. Or we may catch him off guard and at a time when he is not in control.



Instead of arguing with someone who takes things out of context I'll just pray for you. Now that's all I have to say about the matter.
Good day


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## M80 (May 7, 2012)

the deacon, you don't think that God reasoned with Abraham about how many righteous was living in Sodom?

You don't think that Hezikaih's life was spared after he prayed to God.  God told him to get his house in order for he will surely die.


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## Artfuldodger (May 7, 2012)

Or my loved one is doomed to die from cancer. They soon get well. God doesn't change his mind and cure this person from cancer?
My brother has a drug problem and I pray for God to intervene. The next day my brother checks into a clinic. This list could go on and on about the miracles God performs from the power of prayer. 
These prayers are from people who want changes from God. They want God to intervene and help them change things they can't. They want divine intervention. They are not praying for God's will to be done.


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## gemcgrew (May 7, 2012)

Mike 65 said:


> Instead of arguing with someone who takes things out of context I'll just pray for you. Now that's all I have to say about the matter.
> Good day



I wish I was taking things out of context but those were your words. You make it appear as if God is as we are.


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## gemcgrew (May 7, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Or my loved one is doomed to die from cancer. They soon get well. God doesn't change his mind and cure this person from cancer?


No, he doesn't. Nothing unforeseen can ever arise to make him change his mind. He performs what he has purposed. 


Artfuldodger said:


> They are not praying for God's will to be done.


Thankfully, God's will is done whether they pray for it or not.


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## Artfuldodger (May 8, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> No, he doesn't. Nothing unforeseen can ever arise to make him change his mind. He performs what he has purposed.
> 
> Thankfully, God's will is done whether they pray for it or not.



I never said my loved one's cancer was unforeseen by God. Other than giving God glory, why pray? Is it wrong to pray for miracles or help? Maybe God knew beforehand I would pray for my cancer stricken loved one and would make me think my prayer worked.


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## Ronnie T (May 8, 2012)

God always listens to our prayers.  He loves for His children to come talk to Him.  Sometimes I bet He answers prayer just because of the love He sees in the heart of the one praying.  Sometimes, God sees that He's just going to need things to continue the way they headed.  But He loves us anyway.  
He never gets tired of listening to us.  (I got a few people I'd rather not have to deal with).  But God is always there, all night long, ready to hear from us.


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## formula1 (May 9, 2012)

*Re:*

If I believed that God did not answer prayers and did not change his heart toward his people, I would find that as a very poor excuse for a genuine relationship with God.  Thankfully, God has a heart full of grace and mercy and is willing to answer so many things that we ask as His people.  I am grateful for His answers over the years and His keeping power in my life.  I don't understand it all and I certainly don't deserve it, but He does answer. Thank you Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit for your amazing answers.

Matthew 6
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

1 Thess 5
16  Rejoice always, 17  pray without ceasing, 18  give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 

Phillipians 4
4  Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; 6  do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


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## gtparts (May 9, 2012)

formula1 said:


> If I believed that God did not answer prayers and did not change his heart toward his people, I would find that as a very poor excuse for a genuine relationship with God.  Thankfully, God has a heart full of grace and mercy and is willing to answer so many things that we ask as His people.  I am grateful for His answers over the years and His keeping power in my life.  I don't understand it all and I certainly don't deserve it, but He does answer. Thank you Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit for your amazing answers.
> 
> Matthew 6
> 5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
> ...



Prayer is the acknowledgment of who God is in our life. It is confession. And confession is the starting point of all worship.

(And, for those who pick at nits, I didn't say that prayer is all there is to worship.)


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## gemcgrew (May 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I never said my loved one's cancer was unforeseen by God.


And that wasn't my point. 


Artfuldodger said:


> Other than giving God glory, why pray?


We are instructed to and have a great example of it. Christ is the supreme example of faith and prayer. In my life I see how God uses prayer in different ways. It can be so humbling at times.


Artfuldodger said:


> Is it wrong to pray for miracles or help?


So often when I pray I am convicted of the selfish nature of my prayer. Much of the time I can only stop and say "Thy will be done". I am thankful that God's will, and not my will, is performed.


Artfuldodger said:


> Maybe God knew beforehand I would pray for my cancer stricken loved one and would make me think my prayer worked.


Maybe God ordained the cancer, the prayer and the healing. Do we only thank Him for the healing?


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## Artfuldodger (May 9, 2012)

Prayer is the one time we can act selfish and ask God for stuff. You can ask him for financial security, health, guidance, food, clothing, & safety in the Friday night high school football game. God didn't put limits on what you can ask for. He welcomes your request as much as he welcomes your thanks. God is all about fellowship. If you ask for something and God doesn't give it to you, he has a reason. It doesn't mean you should stop asking him for intervention. 
I've got to go on a trip soon and just asked God for a safe trip there. I hope I wasn't being too selfish in asking.


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