# Would you intercede for another like this?



## formula1 (Jun 28, 2012)

Just something for you to think on.  It challenged me when I read it. God bless!

Exodus 32
31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written."


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## rjcruiser (Jun 28, 2012)

Wow...not sure I could do that for a group of people like Moses had.


Reminds me of a sermon I heard about Jonathan (Saul's son) and his friendship with David.  Another example of true loyalty in the face of adversity.  Here's a link to the sermon if anyone wants to listen.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/80-391/jonathan-the-man-who-would-not-be-king


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## rockman7 (Jun 28, 2012)

considering that in a past life(from 19yo to my mid 20's)i snorted up half of peru and /or any chemical you could dream up, smoked anything that could be burnt, drank at least a gallon of liquor or more per week, played/sang every lewd country or rock song imaginable in every elks lodge/vfw/bar/college in north georgia.my parents were youth counselors i'd come stumble'in in holdin up the door , walk in on thier group and say things like "God isn't real", "ya'll are idiots" and laugh till i  crawled too my bed and passed out(they simply prayed for me an loved me).i took advantage of my parents love, thier money(flunked outa 2 schools after getting scholarship for tennis).

i made those hebrew sinners look like a bunch of rank ameaturs with thier gold calf.but somethin happened 

and then after i got saved and free i made a mistake and began getting "religious". in a sermon  i said "if a guy came in here with red spiked hair i'd have to show him the same love shown to me".2 weeks to the day guess what walked in?!?!? (God has a wierd sense of humor)

first sight of that skinny guy i swelled up like a bull frog. then the conviction began dure'in our service. got my toes stepped on, my pride fed to me (forget the crow.... this was buzzard in a crock pot). had to go up dure'in alter call and hug the guy(did i mention he smelled worse than the buzzard i ate).

after all my stupidity , and the love God and others have shown me dure'in such,how could i possibly do otherwise???

i take it everyone else grew up in sunday school and ate all thier broccoli ?


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## Ronnie T (Jun 28, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Just something for you to think on.  It challenged me when I read it. God bless!
> 
> Exodus 32
> 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written."



NO!  Not to that extent.
That would be too great an offering from me.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 28, 2012)

rockman7 said:


> considering that in a past life(from 19yo to my mid 20's)i snorted up half of peru and /or any chemical you could dream up, smoked anything that could be burnt, drank at least a gallon of liquor or more per week, played/sang every lewd country or rock song imaginable in every elks lodge/vfw/bar/college in north georgia.my parents were youth counselors i'd come stumble'in in holdin up the door , walk in on thier group and say things like "God isn't real", "ya'll are idiots" and laugh till i  crawled too my bed and passed out(they simply prayed for me an loved me).i took advantage of my parents love, thier money(flunked outa 2 schools after getting scholarship for tennis).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## StriperAddict (Jun 29, 2012)

rockman7 said:


> considering that in a past life(from 19yo to my mid 20's)i snorted up half of peru and /or any chemical you could dream up, smoked anything that could be burnt, drank at least a gallon of liquor or more per week, played/sang every lewd country or rock song imaginable in every elks lodge/vfw/bar/college in north georgia.my parents were youth counselors i'd come stumble'in in holdin up the door , walk in on thier group and say things like "God isn't real", "ya'll are idiots" and laugh till i crawled too my bed and passed out(they simply prayed for me an loved me).i took advantage of my parents love, thier money(flunked outa 2 schools after getting scholarship for tennis).
> 
> i made those hebrew sinners look like a bunch of rank ameaturs with thier gold calf.but somethin happened
> 
> ...


 
Sometimes we just don't know what our freedom is really about, do we?  We go back to the 'rules' because in them we have a feigned sence of security, but in the end they end up killin us and all those around us 

you defined 'religion' better than I could with your post, esp. it's consequences.

God give us the grace to embrace the stinkies... because we were all so much worse without love and redemption than we know.  The cross levels the playing field, wether we see it or not.

Great post, thanks


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## rockman7 (Jun 29, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> rockman7 said:
> 
> 
> > considering that in a past life(from 19yo to my mid 20's)i snorted up half of peru and /or any chemical you could dream up, smoked anything that could be burnt, drank at least a gallon of liquor or more per week, played/sang every lewd country or rock song imaginable in every elks lodge/vfw/bar/college in north georgia.my parents were youth counselors i'd come stumble'in in holdin up the door , walk in on thier group and say things like "God isn't real", "ya'll are idiots" and laugh till i  crawled too my bed and passed out(they simply prayed for me an loved me).i took advantage of my parents love, thier money(flunked outa 2 schools after getting scholarship for tennis).
> ...


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## formula1 (Jun 29, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> NO!  Not to that extent.
> That would be too great an offering from me.



I hear you. There is so much to learn though about where God would like to see us go!

Perhaps Moses knew enough about God that what he offered was not his to begin with!

And perhaps we now know why Moses talked with God face-to-face! 

And perhaps from this we understand the depth of what Jesus meant when He said this:

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Just a few of many thoughts going through my head as I read this passage. Do I really care more for others than myself? Just when I think that I have it all together, I am reminded that I do not.  

I am still in need of much grace!


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## gordon 2 (Jun 29, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Just something for you to think on.  It challenged me when I read it. God bless!
> 
> Exodus 32
> 31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written."





I'm not sure I understand the challenge for you here as there are many elements to these few lines. But let me try to guess that the idea that Moses would bargain with God to remove the sin of  "this people" or else remove him(Moses) or to blot Moses out of "God's book" is a bit of a challenge----Or in other words that Moses would think to challenge God, to say to God to either remove sin from "this people" or else remove me from your book( which Moses was perhaps writing)-- is a bit challenging to appreciate...

And it is challenging....as I don't know where Moses was coming from? Just this week I listened to a Saudi Arabian leader who said, " I would rather Alas slay me than for I to permit the women of Saudi Arabia, the glory of man and God, to go to a venue, the Olympics and participate where women parade nearly naked. Did this muslim have more boys than Moses ever did? The spiritual soul in the middle east is an ancient ball of wool scratched at by the cats of one hundred thousands generations.

I could say two things about Moses which might not be correct at all, but for the subject  "challenge" here I will say it just the same.

If Moses was challenging God as in "either/ or" he was either/or deeply intimate with God or his pride was getting the better of him.

And Moses was perhaps a bit of a chicken in that he could have said, "Blot me out." instead of just being blotted out of God's book. And this is what our friend the muslim I mentioned above was saying....blot me out....period!

Now a christain today could say the sins of your people is great. Forgive them or blot me out of your book. In this case it could mean blot me out of your salvation...but save all others or just blot me out if my generation, my nation, my people is not forgiven. 

It is hard to figure out what motivated Moses here...Perhaps Moses indentified so much with the Hebrews that what he was simply saying was, " God it is up to you, I recognise this great sin in us, forgive us, forgive me or simply rub us out, we are not/I am not deserving."

Perhaps  for the Good News  we sound God's answer to Moses...as the gentiles, our ancesstors, are from prime God smelting stock, but Moses' cloak was cut from interesting cloth. Moses is a challenge...

But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written."

 Or simply if I go backwards in this sentence,  (For the book that you have written, Lord, if you will not forgive them--I cannot continue, because your integrity is out with the wash.)


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## StriperAddict (Jun 29, 2012)

Good stuff here.

I think the testimony of Paul concerning national Israel is similar to that of Moses:

*Romans 9:3-5*

<SUP class=versenum>*3 *</SUP>For <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>I could wish that I myself were <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>accursed, _separated_ from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>according to the flesh, 
<SUP class=versenum>*4 *</SUP>who are <SUP class=crossreference value='(D)'></SUP>Israelites, to whom belongs <SUP class=crossreference value='(E)'></SUP>the adoption as sons, and <SUP class=crossreference value='(F)'></SUP>the glory and <SUP class=crossreference value='(G)'></SUP>the covenants and <SUP class=crossreference value='(H)'></SUP>the giving of the Law and <SUP class=crossreference value='(I)'></SUP>the _temple_ service and <SUP class=crossreference value='(J)'></SUP>the promises, 
<SUP class=versenum>*5 *</SUP>whose are <SUP class=crossreference value='(K)'></SUP>the fathers, and <SUP class=crossreference value='(L)'></SUP>from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, <SUP class=crossreference value='(M)'></SUP>who is over all, <SUP class=crossreference value='(N)'></SUP>God <SUP class=crossreference value='(O)'></SUP>blessed forever. Amen.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 29, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Good stuff here.
> 
> I think the testimony of Paul concerning national Israel is similar to that of Moses:
> 
> ...



Paul is a type of Moses is suppose. Good catch there my friend.


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## Ronnie T (Jun 29, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I hear you. There is so much to learn though about where God would like to see us go!
> 
> Perhaps Moses knew enough about God that what he offered was not his to begin with!
> 
> ...



I have the capability and the capacity to give my life for the needs of another person.  
In my mind I believe I would die trying to save a drowning person rather than stand safely on the shore waiting for the fire department to get there.

But if Moses was saying:  "God, if you don't save evil Israel (or America), then I no longer want any part of the life you give"......  I can't do it.
I would give my physical life in standing up for God and His purposes.  But I ain't giving up God and my Savior for nobody.


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## rockman7 (Jun 29, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I have the capability and the capacity to give my life for the needs of another person.
> In my mind I believe I would die trying to save a drowning person rather than stand safely on the shore waiting for the fire department to get there.
> 
> But if Moses was saying:  "God, if you don't save evil Israel (or America), then I no longer want any part of the life you give"?????......  I can't do or say that.
> I would give my physical life in standing up for God and His purposes.  But I ain't giving up God and my Savior for nobody.



just curious but what if you were abraham and thought He truly wanted you to sacrifice your son??

i think i'd have a harder time with that!


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## Ronnie T (Jun 30, 2012)

rockman7 said:


> just curious but what if you were abraham and thought He truly wanted you to sacrifice your son??
> 
> i think i'd have a harder time with that!



One would have to place themselves in the relationship Abram had with God at that time.
I think the Bible tells us that Abram understood that it was only through God that he had received a son in the first place.  If God can give this old man a son, God can certainly bring back this son if I sacrifice him.

That's serious faith.


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## Lowjack (Jul 1, 2012)

I have done this for the Salvation of Israel and the United States of America , we are to be concerned not only for Individuals but for the whole nation.


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