# Silver solder question



## rocinante (Sep 18, 2009)

I have a rifle I want to scope but it doesn't have rails and it has a cover instead of a solid frame on top. I do not really want to drill and tap the receiver. What I propose to do is silver solder a left side shotgun mount to the receiver. Logic being it will hold and when I want to take it off all I have to do is melt the solder. 

Will it work?

Is silver solder any different than the solder I use on electronics?

Maybe I can just use my friend J.B. Weld. I am kinda addicted to that stuff.


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## rocinante (Sep 18, 2009)

search is your friend. I found this info.
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You have to have the oxyacetylene torch to melt high temp silver solder. You have to have metal to metal contact- no finish- degreased and possibly etched with acid. You need flux to make the solder flow and antiflux so the solder won't stick where you don't want it. And last, you need silver solder which ain't cheap... get the powdered prefluxed stuff.

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Sounds like silver solder is a different beast altogether and more than I can handle. It does seem to be strong because I did read where some smith was using it to weld a bolt handle to a bolt.


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## Twenty five ought six (Sep 18, 2009)

You need to do more research, you don't need an oxyacetylene torch for silver soldering.

Back to the OP, you don't say what kind of rifle you are shooting.  If it is a centerfire, IMO, neither solder or JB weld will stand up to the recoil with a scope mounted.  If either would, I suspect a lot more people would go that route, rather than paying a gunsmith to drill and tap for screws.

But, hey, it's your scope.


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## rocinante (Sep 18, 2009)

It is a 8mm so I am certain my evil schemes will not work out.


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## dawg2 (Sep 18, 2009)

rocinante said:


> It is a 8mm so I am certain my evil schemes will not work out.



No, that will not work.


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## germag (Sep 18, 2009)

Remington bolt handles are silver soldered on.


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## HandgunHTR (Sep 18, 2009)

Twenty five ought six said:


> You need to do more research, you don't need an oxyacetylene torch for silver soldering.
> 
> Back to the OP, you don't say what kind of rifle you are shooting.  If it is a centerfire, IMO, neither solder or JB weld will stand up to the recoil with a scope mounted.  If either would, I suspect a lot more people would go that route, rather than paying a gunsmith to drill and tap for screws.
> 
> But, hey, it's your scope.



25-06, for true silver soldering, you need a higher temperature than you can get with a standard propane torch.  When I say true silver solder, I am talking using at least 60% silver solder, not that mostly lead solder with a hint of silver in it that you get at Home Depot.

Silver solder will hold up to quite a bit of abuse.  It is used quite often in low pressure ( <150 psi) seawater applications for naval vessels.  Obviously, that means that it has to be relatively shock-proof.

Will it hold up to rifle recoil as a scope mount attachement?  I can't rightly say.  I do know that you probably don't want to heat your rifles receiver to the temperature required to silver solder something relatively big on it.


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## NOYDB (Sep 18, 2009)

Then again, if you post the make and model of the weapon, someone here may have experience or can find info on how to do it right.


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## Hammack (Sep 18, 2009)

HandgunHTR is right.  Silver solder will take more heat than lead based solder.  All Remington bolt handles are silver soldered in place, and I don't have any doubt that IF the mount was soldered on correctly that it would hold.  HOWEVER, I would not attempt it as you run the risk of distorting the receiver as well as getting it too hot and losing hardness.


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## galvatron (Sep 23, 2009)

tig welder?  much greater control of heat and filler material.  find a certified welder and ask him/her.  then find a real cheap beater of a gun and let him/her test/practice on that receiver. 
how much distortion will occur, not sure.  if you're looking to drive tacks at 300+ yds, it might cause an issue but it may not.


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## Hammack (Sep 23, 2009)

galvatron said:


> tig welder?  much greater control of heat and filler material.  find a certified welder and ask him/her.  then find a real cheap beater of a gun and let him/her test/practice on that receiver.
> how much distortion will occur, not sure.  if you're looking to drive tacks at 300+ yds, it might cause an issue but it may not.



I own/operate a welding and machine shop.  Welding of any type will add more heat into the piece than soldering will.  There is heat stop paste etc.  That will aid in this, but as I stated before I personally would not do it.  an any weldor worth his salt would send you promptly out of his shop if you were to ask him to perform that job.  Mainly because of the possibility of losing the hardness and or warpage.  Yes you could possibly weld the attachment to the receiver and then have it reheat treated, but for that money it would be cheaper to just pay to have it drilled and tapped.  Heating receivers is serious business.  Especially when your life is on the line!


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## germag (Sep 23, 2009)

Hammack said:


> I own/operate a welding and machine shop.  Welding of any type will add more heat into the piece than soldering will.  There is heat stop paste etc.  That will aid in this, but as I stated before I personally would not do it.  an any weldor worth his salt would send you promptly out of his shop if you were to ask him to perform that job.  Mainly because of the possibility of losing the hardness and or warpage.  Yes you could possibly weld the attachment to the receiver and then have it reheat treated, but for that money it would be cheaper to just pay to have it drilled and tapped.  Heating receivers is serious business.  Especially when your life is on the line!



Yep. I had an alleged "gunsmith" heat up a receiver on one my rifles last year until the steel was turning red. I won't mention any names, but his initials are Larry Williams in Adairsville. Anyway, I made him have it Rockwell Tested before I would accept it back. When you heat metal like that, you change the temper...as Hammack said, it has the potential to cause a catastrophic failure when you fire the weapon if the steel is weakened enough.


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## patrickonasis (Sep 23, 2009)

H&R Ultra Light Slug gun scope rails are silver soldered on.


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## Twenty five ought six (Sep 24, 2009)

> 25-06, for true silver soldering, you need a higher temperature than you can get with a standard propane torch. When I say true silver solder, I am talking using at least 60% silver solder, not that mostly lead solder with a hint of silver in it that you get at Home Depot.



It's really not worth arguing about.  I know several jewelers who use silver solder regularly, it's not from Home Depot, and all they use is a propane torch.  The melting point of 70% silver solder is 1400 deg. F, which is well within the capabilities of a propane torch.


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