# Is it OK to use musical instruments in Worship?



## brofoster (May 9, 2006)

Thoughts on that?


----------



## matthewsman (May 9, 2006)

*you already know the answer brother........*

Timbrels and other instruments are mentioned in the Pslams and other books repeatedly................


----------



## leroy (May 9, 2006)

Why not? We have started a praise team to our Sun night service they have drums,keyboard, guitar, and of course a piano. It has really been great our peoplr seem to like it.


----------



## jason308 (May 9, 2006)

King David and most others had quite a lot to say about using their instruments to praise the Lord.


----------



## DCarter001 (May 10, 2006)

I think it is great.  What better way to lift up our joy to the Lord than in song?  It frees your heart and mind for the message you are about to receive.  Allows you to release your burdens and hear the message.


----------



## CAL (May 10, 2006)

Amen,DCarter


----------



## Jody Hawk (May 10, 2006)

We had an awesome singing at church Sunday night, along with drums and bass guitar. Nothing wrong with these instruments as long as they are lifting up praises to the Lord.


----------



## SBG (May 10, 2006)

Nothing wrong with musical accompaniment; it is quite evident in scripture that music was and should be an integral part of worship. 

Where I think it is a problem is when the Church music adopts the sounds of worldly/secular music.


----------



## PWalls (May 10, 2006)

If done as a compliment to the worship service, I see no problem with it.


----------



## Win270Brown (May 10, 2006)

Oh yes, instruments were used throughout the Psalms! What I would do to hear that sweet music!


----------



## gordon 2 (May 10, 2006)

I think that the King James version of the New Testament states that it is ok to worship with the organ. LOL


----------



## Jriley (May 10, 2006)

My church has a rock band and we really get into our praising. I mean a full rock band with lights, three guitars, bass, drums, keyboard, backup singers, smoke etc.
Honestly, I was a traditional church goer as a child, and my dad was a minister. I strayed from the church from the time I was 20 until I was 33. It was just rebellion that lasted way too long. That's a lot of time to be away from God. 
What drew me back in was the music. What kept me in church was the holy spirit. I'm sure that traditional hymns and traditional church is fine for my parents. But it doesn't hold my attention.
How can something be wrong if it leads people to God? Because with me it's either a church with music I enjoy, or no church.



			
				SBG said:
			
		

> Nothing wrong with musical accompaniment; it is quite evident in scripture that music was and should be an integral part of worship.
> 
> Where I think it is a problem is when the Church music adopts the sounds of worldly/secular music.


----------



## Win270Brown (May 10, 2006)

*Sbg....*

I wonder how you define worldy/earthly sound? I think it depends on the motivation. If it is for something other than glorification of the Lord then yes you are right in saying that would not be ok. But the sound in itself is not what makes it wrong. If that were the case then no music would be OK.
My 2 cents.


----------



## SBG (May 10, 2006)

Win270Brown said:
			
		

> I wonder how you define worldy/earthly sound? I think it depends on the motivation. If it is for something other than glorification of the Lord then yes you are right in saying that would not be ok. But the sound in itself is not what makes it wrong. If that were the case then no music would be OK.
> My 2 cents.



I had made a post and replied about this subject. I went back and deleted it so the thread doesn't devolve into a debate on what one person thinks is right or wrong.


----------



## Thunderbeard (May 10, 2006)

Yes, I think its awesome.


----------



## Todd E (May 10, 2006)

Jriley,

It's all good man!! Nothing wrong with it at all.

Where the problem lies is when it's done for emotions only. People do get caught up in the "feel good" for themselves and forget about the fact that it is done ONLY for The Lord; not us. They also forget about being there to hear a word from God.


----------



## Jriley (May 10, 2006)

I do know it got me back in the doors of the church a couple of years ago. I think getting right with Jesus has had a positive effect on my son and my marriage.
I just think it reaches people that wouldn't normally go to church, or who have strayed through the years. I'm mostly talking about myself there.


----------



## brofoster (May 10, 2006)

First off I asked this question for no other reason than get thoughts and ideas from others on religious issues.  I started a thread concerning communion that was well recieved by most, and hope to do so with this one as well.  Just stimulating thought among believers.  At the end of the day you still have your view and I will still have mine.  Hopefully we'll rejoice about the things we agree on and pray hard about the things we don't agree on.  

First off much of what I know of as musical instruments in worship were used in the OLD Testament of the law and sacrifices.  I do not live under that testament.  We now live under the testament of Grace and Truth from Jesus' blood.  I want to refer to the book of Hebrews that makes a clear distinction between the two testaments.  I don't think that we can conveniently pull things from the Old Testament into the New Testament.  If I bring over the instruments from the OT, then I thinks the bulls and blood and sacrifices should come also.  One died when the other started; with death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.     

Hebr 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.  

 Hbr 8:7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.  

 Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:  

 Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.  

 Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:  

 Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.  

 Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.  

 Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.  

That is my view on the old and new testament.  No where in the new testament do I find the authority to use musical instruments in worship.  If there is not a scriptural pattern or command for any practice in worship I do not do it according to:

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:  

 Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.  

As a general rule, I apply the following:
No other book but the Bible.  No other creed but Christ.  I am silent where the Bible is silent.  I do not add or take away.  

I can not find any NT scriptures telling me to use instruments during worship.  What I can find in the command to use the natural instrument (voice) in singing.  

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 

One thing that I want to point out is that for me this is more of a African American issue than anything else with the "shout" or "catching the holy Ghost" issue.  

We are commanded to worship in spirit and truth.  In spirit to me means with the heart and mind, and truth means according to God's word.  I think that most of the shouthing that is done is in accordance with the music of instruments.  When the instruments stop most of the shouting stops.  So is it the spirit and truth that causes the shouting and elation of emotions or the mechanical instruments.  To me instruments have no spirtual value and according to truth I can not find them mentioned in the New Testament.  I have often asked my family to try worship without instruments and they told me it would be boring.  I believe that what often makes us "feel good" may not actually be what is commanded.  I had a dream once that Jesus came back and it was like a scene of Moses coming down from the mountain.  He asked, What in the world have you all done? The preachers were running in Biker Jackets, flashy suits, and it was just a maylay.  

And the Lord said:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  

 Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  

Maybe I am just to old school but this is the way I feel.  I grew up as a member of that kind of worship but left it many years ago.  

Remember this the area that we can post varying and differing views on religious topics.  At the end of the day I respect the views of others, and hope for the same.


----------



## matthewsman (May 11, 2006)

*very interesting thoughts Bro Foster*

I agree with you on the new covenant issue.I believe Jesus made the sacrifice thus eliminating the need for blood sacrifice and many of the 400 +Jewish laws......

I believe Paul addressed many of the problems in the new churches worship with some things being taken to extreme.Tongues and some pagan practices being two that come to mind.I don't know if music was not an issue because it didn't exsist,or because it wasn't a problem for the early church.........

Perhaps we could shout to the swishing of palm fronds 

Interesting insight on shouting.I have seen it in response to powerful preaching too,usually as an emphatic"Amen"not the extended Sunday night,put on your shouting shoes ,type service.That is usually musically inspired.

Something else more prevalent in larger black churches,is interpretive dance.Is that or dramas a Biblical part of worship,or something more pleasing to man,in your opinion?


----------



## Double Barrel BB (May 11, 2006)

brofoster said:
			
		

> First off I asked this question for no other reason than get thoughts and ideas from others on religious issues.  I started a thread concerning communion that was well recieved by most, and hope to do so with this one as well.  Just stimulating thought among believers.  At the end of the day you still have your view and I will still have mine.  Hopefully we'll rejoice about the things we agree on and pray hard about the things we don't agree on.
> 
> First off much of what I know of as musical instruments in worship were used in the OLD Testament of the law and sacrifices.  I do not live under that testament.  We now live under the testament of Grace and Truth from Jesus' blood.  I want to refer to the book of Hebrews that makes a clear distinction between the two testaments.  I don't think that we can conveniently pull things from the Old Testament into the New Testament.  If I bring over the instruments from the OT, then I thinks the bulls and blood and sacrifices should come also.  One died when the other started; with death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
> 
> ...




AMEN!!! 

It wasn't but a few sunday's ago that in our church our Piano player and song leader did not show up for our afternoon service and they asked me if I would lead the singing, so I did and we all sang without any music. I have to say it moved me, it made me realize that the voice is more powerful than any instrument ever created. 

DB BB


----------



## brofoster (May 11, 2006)

Good to hear that Double Barrel and that is exactly where I am coming from.  So then I have to ask myself how much of what I am feeling is actually caused by the Spirit and how much of it is caused by the instruments.      

Mathewsman, I believe a little leaven leavens the whole lump.  Historically men with take things the extreme everytime.  Worship is no different.  As far as the African American church's tradition or drama dance or Miming, I am not with it.  I have seen them dress up like ballerenas with their faces painted and act out the service.  To me that is border line phaganism.  I also am not with the rock concert service.  I believe it is done to make people feel good and is not in scripture or truth.  

Like I said before, in my mind I see Jesus looking down at the earth with this perplexed look on his face saying, "What in the world are they doing!"


----------



## PWalls (May 11, 2006)

I think a difference between "detraction" and "addition" needs to be made.

To me a simple organ/piano/choir is not a detraction from worship, but is an addition to the service that adds its own values. Anything that is a detraction from the service should be removed. However, anything that adds to the worship experience and brings you closer to God should not be discarded.

There are a lot of things we do today that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Instead of focusing on not doing something that the Bible doesn't address, we should focus more on the things that the Bible specifically says to not do. Do you have electricity, air conditioning, fans, speakers, microphones, flowers, etc in your church during worship? Jesus didn't say to not have those either. Should I push for my church to do away with the air conditioning because I sit next to the return and it distracts me on occasion?

I have had this discussion before with a friend of mine also. We went round and round on it also. At the end of the day, I just can't grasp that God would no longer accept musical instruments in worship when they were used for that purpose in the Old Testament. It is documented often in the Old Testament, but just because Jesus didn't say "It is OK to play musical instruments during worship", now believers think that you can't have them.

I will agree to disagree.


----------



## leroy (May 11, 2006)

PWalls said:
			
		

> I think a difference between "detraction" and "addition" needs to be made.
> 
> To me a simple organ/piano/choir is not a detraction from worship, but is an addition to the service that adds its own values. Anything that is a detraction from the service should be removed. However, anything that adds to the worship experience and brings you closer to God should not be discarded.
> 
> ...



Good post P. I cant see any reason not to have musical instruments. I dont see how that takes away from a service. Besides, I like the instuments it drowns out my voice


----------



## MosquitoBait (May 11, 2006)

I guess I'll be in the minority here, but I prefer just the piano and organ.  I know it's just a leftover preference from the way I was raised, but I'm not comfortable with the "rock band" set up in a church.

My wife is just the opposite- she needs the full blown ensemble, or else she goes to sleep.

I guess it just comes down to whatever brings you closer to God.


----------



## SBG (May 11, 2006)

PWalls said:
			
		

> There are a lot of things we do today that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Instead of focusing on not doing something that the Bible doesn't address, we should focus more on the things that the Bible specifically says to not do. Do you have electricity, air conditioning, fans, speakers, microphones, flowers, etc in your church during worship? Jesus didn't say to not have those either. Should I push for my church to do away with the air conditioning because I sit next to the return and it distracts me on occasion?



Very good post! And honestly, this is really where our focus should be. As mentioned, there are a lot of things that have become part of our Church liturgy that are neither specifically allowed or condemned in the NT.

I'm curious how this reasoning would effect tithing? There is no mention of the practice of tithing in the NT either.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (May 11, 2006)

Just curious, how many have tried it without the musical instruments?

DB BB


----------



## Pale Blue Dun (May 11, 2006)

I say, ROCK ON DUDE!!!!!


----------



## DCHunter (May 11, 2006)

My opinion is even if someone's playing heavy metal music, but it's done for the Lord then it's still acceptable. Just because some people may not like a particular sound, don't mean it won't reach others. How can you associate good or evil with a particular sound?


----------



## Jriley (May 11, 2006)

I love the rock music at our church and when an auditorium of people are raising their hands and praising Jesus it sends a chill up my spine.
If y'all want to go to churches that don't use music, or just pianos, or pianos and organs, or just singing, or just chanting or whatever that is fine. We can still be friends. I'm just saying what has changed my life. It's much better to sing the songs of Jesus loud than the songs of satan.


----------



## redwards (May 11, 2006)

brofoster said:
			
		

> ......
> I can not find any NT scriptures telling me to use instruments during worship. What I can find in the command to use the natural instrument (voice) in singing.
> 
> Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;......


brofoster,
Not being argumentative, but in Eph 5:19 the Greek phrase "making melody" comes from the Greek word "psallontes" which means "to rub or touch", "to twitch or twang".
From Strong's definitions;


> Strong's number 5567
> yallw
> psallo
> _psal'-lo_
> ...


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]We sing a capello some at our church, but we also have musical instruments aside from the piano.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Most importantly, we worship, praise and adore the Lord in music and singing! [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]

[/FONT]


----------



## brofoster (May 11, 2006)

I respect the views of all that have responded, and I thank you for taking the time to do so.  In response to the idea that there are many things in worship that are not commanded ie a/c, heat, fans.  I would say that those things don't have any bearing on the worship service.  Musical instruments on the other hand are brought in for that specific purpose.  Many "feel" (there we are again with those feeling, they will get you when it comes to God) that certain things should be allowed; but is that how God feels or said.  It may amplify the service, make people feel great, and cry, but did God ordain it.  A mechanical instrument can have no bearing on spirit or truth because it has neither; so whatever it produces is artificial and therefore false having no bearing on true worship.  I always say that if you can shout and scream without the music fine, but if you need the music and instruments to shout; then they are the only reason you are shouting anyway.  Not God, and that would be wrong.


----------



## brofoster (May 11, 2006)

brofoster,
Not being argumentative, but in Eph 5:19 the Greek phrase "making melody" comes from the Greek word "psallontes" which means "to rub or touch", "to twitch or twang".
From Strong's definitions;
Very true Redwards and you hit the nail right on the head.  I am so glad that you brought that out.  If you finish the verse it say "making melody in your heart."

Now lets insert you definition into the scripture itself:

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody (touching rubbing, twitch, or twanging) WHERE????   IN YOUR HEART TO THE LORD.  Not on an instrument.  

A feeling of conviction, elation, and exhaltation struck in the true heart and not on or by a piece metal and strings.


----------



## PWalls (May 11, 2006)

I am also one that does not feel comfortable with anything other than a piano and/or organ. I would rather listen to a congregation singing along with an organ (it does help keep some of us in tune) than I would to a rock concert at church.

So, while I do think musical instruments are OK in church, I personally think there is a line at some point that could be crossed to where those instruments could be a distraction from worship.


----------



## Win270Brown (May 11, 2006)

PWalls said:
			
		

> I think a difference between "detraction" and "addition" needs to be made.
> 
> To me a simple organ/piano/choir is not a detraction from worship, but is an addition to the service that adds its own values. Anything that is a detraction from the service should be removed. However, anything that adds to the worship experience and brings you closer to God should not be discarded.
> 
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## brofoster (May 11, 2006)

I just think that the service belongs to God and only his authority can change it not me.

I respect the views of all that have responded, and I thank you for taking the time to do so. In response to the idea that there are many things in worship that are not commanded ie a/c, heat, fans. I would say that those things don't have any bearing on the worship service. Musical instruments on the other hand are brought in for that specific purpose. Many "feel" (there we are again with those feeling, they will get you when it comes to God) that certain things should be allowed; but is that how God feels or said. It may amplify the service, make people feel great, and cry, but did God ordain it. A mechanical instrument can have no bearing on spirit or truth because it has neither; so whatever it produces is artificial and therefore false having no bearing on true worship. I always say that if you can shout and scream without the music fine, but if you need the music and instruments to shout; then they are the only reason you are shouting anyway. Not God, and that would be wrong.


----------



## cowboyron (May 11, 2006)

The command to sing is specific and excludes all other kinds of music. God commanded Noah to build the ark of gopher wood-by specifiying "gopher" God eliminated all other kinds of wood. (Gen. 6:14). Gods command to Aaron to offer two he goats and a ram in atonement sacrificies excluded every other animal (Lev. 16). Gods command to sing excludes any other kind of music. There are only two kinds- vocal and insrumental.  God has specified vocal.

When something more is done than "sing," God has been disobeyed. (II Jno. 9:11; I Cor. 4:6).


----------



## cowboyron (May 11, 2006)

PWalls said:
			
		

> I think a difference between "detraction" and "addition" needs to be made.
> 
> To me a simple organ/piano/choir is not a detraction from worship, but is an addition to the service that adds its own values. Anything that is a detraction from the service should be removed. However, anything that adds to the worship experience and brings you closer to God should not be discarded.
> 
> ...



Instrumental music is only an aid........It is not just an aid, it is an addition of another kind of music. It is not on par with books, seats, lights, ect., for when all these have been used, still there has been only singing. But but when the instrument is supplied, we have not only singing but singing and playing. An addition has been made.


----------



## leroy (May 11, 2006)

cowboyron said:
			
		

> The command to sing is specific and excludes all other kinds of music. God commanded Noah to build the ark of gopher wood-by specifiying "gopher" God eliminated all other kinds of wood. (Gen. 6:14). Gods command to Aaron to offer two he goats and a ram in atonement sacrificies excluded every other animal (Lev. 16). Gods command to sing excludes any other kind of music. There are only two kinds- vocal and insrumental.  God has specified vocal.
> 
> When something more is done than "sing," God has been disobeyed. (II Jno. 9:11; I Cor. 4:6).




You are kidding, right? If not then I'll take it up with God when I get there that we had a guitar and drums in our Church music. So you have no piano or organ in your Church?


----------



## GeauxLSU (May 11, 2006)

I sure hope nobody is expecting agreement on this one.  

We all are comfortable with different kinds of worship.  The whole idea of rock bands in church and huge projection screens hanging overhead showing the band or  speaker or whatever, and I can't even imagine what other multi media aid, is just not church to me.  Obviously it is to a bunch of people.  In some cases thousands at one time in one building.  

Now, I have no issue with Christian rock concerts.  But for ME, a concert is a concert.  A church service is a church service.  My church's 'youth mass' has the works.  Guitars, trap set, the whole deal.  They don't play loud or real hard sounding stuff but for ME, it's an inappropriate feeling  distraction.  I generally don't go to the 'youth mass'.  If they asked my opinion (which they don't), I'd have the best choir anywhere singing hymns at the top of their pitch perfect lungs.  Since that's not going to happen, the "I don't want to know how much it cost" pipe organ and somebody leading the congregation in song will suffice nicely.  
A rock concert in chruch to ME, is disrespectful.   I understand many don't feel that way.  This goes hand in hand with the "What do you wear in church?" threads etc...
We all have very different ideas of what is appropriate for a formal worship service.  I'm sure God looks down at the "bumps on a log" that are too often present (myself on occasion) in my congregation and finds that disrespectful too.


----------



## SBG (May 12, 2006)

For those of you that would exclude musical accompaniment at Church because it is not specifically called for in the NT, what is opinion of the tithe in Church?


----------



## FESTUSHAGGIN (May 12, 2006)

we regularly just have a piano, but occasionally a gospel group will come for a singin.  we have had acoustic guitar before.  nothing electric and no drums.  small church and that would be too much for the space.


----------



## DCHunter (May 12, 2006)

GeauxLSU said:
			
		

> I sure hope nobody is expecting agreement on this one.
> 
> We all are comfortable with different kinds of worship.  The whole idea of rock bands in church and huge projection screens hanging overhead showing the band or  speaker or whatever, and I can't even imagine what other multi media aid, is just not church to me.  Obviously it is to a bunch of people.  In some cases thousands at one time in one building.
> 
> ...



I guess I see your point. So you're saying that the actual service is to follow the rules specifically and the rock music and such is more of an extra-curricular type thing?


----------



## GeauxLSU (May 12, 2006)

*Time and a place*



			
				DCHunter said:
			
		

> I guess I see your point. So you're saying that the actual service is to follow the rules specifically and the rock music and such is more of an extra-curricular type thing?


I'm not addressing any 'rules' for a service though I believe this thread is attempting to do that.  I'm just saying many of us are likely conditioned (intentionally or unintentionally) to believe what is acceptable in a church worship service.  To sing Christian rock music in praise of the Lord at a bona fide concert I'm sure is a good thing, relatively speaking.  To do it on Sunday morning when 4 generations of worshippers are hopefully present to ME is OUT OF PLACE.  It is another form (again, to ME) of bringing secular activities into the worship service which I just feel is inappropriate and potentially destructive.  
I grew up on organs and one or two singers and the occasionally choir.  That is what is comfortable for me simply because that is what I'm accustomed to.  I'm sure the first time anyone dared bring a pipe organ into church it ruffled some feathers too.  
There just seems to be a whole lot of side dressing going on in some church services and it's all done in the name of drawing "more people" in.  Apparently, having somebody sitting in church especially dropping some folding money in the collection basket is equal to saving souls.  If that's the measure of success, I'm sure if you rented a big auditorium and showed a free screening of Brokeback Mountain on it's opening weekend and called it 'church' you'd have had a full house too.  
A church service SHOULD be something that stands apart from the world particularly from the electronic sensory overload we all get on a daily basis.  But again, that's just ME.  Your experiencies likely vary.


----------



## gacowboy (May 12, 2006)

In my opinion God is listening to the worship and praise coming from the hearts of his people. Whether that be with drums and clashing cymbals or a soft voice singing ,I am sure he understands both!!
He just welcomes the praise and glory!! 
Everyone has there own ways of doing music, depending on cultures and ways of life. I myself like some of both, Christian rock and older hymns.
GOD is so GOOD!!!!


----------



## MSU bowhunter (May 12, 2006)

Sure.  Why not?

All creation should give honor to God.


----------



## Win270Brown (May 12, 2006)

*Great Post!*



			
				gacowboy said:
			
		

> In my opinion God is listening to the worship and praise coming from the hearts of his people. Whether that be with drums and clashing cymbals or a soft voice singing ,I am sure he understands both!!
> He just welcomes the praise and glory!!
> Everyone has there own ways of doing music, depending on cultures and ways of life. I myself like some of both, Christian rock and older hymns.
> GOD is so GOOD!!!!


We get so wrapped up in DOS and DONTS that we forget that the main thing is the heart. That is what the whole NT is about!!! That is why Jesus came to FULFILL the law! God hears the songs we sing in our hearts that honor Him.


----------



## Jriley (May 12, 2006)

gacowboy said:
			
		

> In my opinion God is listening to the worship and praise coming from the hearts of his people. Whether that be with drums and clashing cymbals or a soft voice singing ,I am sure he understands both!!
> He just welcomes the praise and glory!!
> Everyone has there own ways of doing music, depending on cultures and ways of life. I myself like some of both, Christian rock and older hymns.
> GOD is so GOOD!!!!



Amen!


----------



## reylamb (May 12, 2006)

My issue with rock bands in church is fairly simple, albeit with a few different aspect. Does it draw one to God, or towards the instruments?  Are the folks jiving, girating, tapping their toes or whatever because they are filled with the Spirit, or are they just doing what comes natural with music that has a heavy beat?  

Last, and most important to me, God called us to be a unique, seperate people.  Take away the words and what do you have?  A rock concert.  Hardly seperate or unique.  If an unsaved person was standing outside would they hear the words?  No, they would hear the music only and what is the music associated with?  If the answer is not an association with God it has no place in the service.

I have heard it said before, the music can draw in the unsaved and they can hear the Gospel.  How does that work in conjunction with being seperate and unique?  Where do we draw the line?  Should the Church have a kegger to bring in the potentially unsaved drunks?  Should we go to every happy hour at every bar in town in order to witness to them?  What eff ect does rock-type music have on our witness, even with good words?  How does taking a music style that is worldly and adopting it to a Church service coincide with the adminoshment in the NT to be either hot or cold?  Surely taking worldly music and adding Christian words is trying to take something worldly and something Godly and combining them.

There are several sides of the debate as it pertains to the NT and the use of instruments.  We know Christ himself will use musical instruments as we are told will happen in the end times.  If Christ himself will use instruments how can we then say they do not belong in any way shape or form in services?  That is a little contradictory in and of itself according to what we read in the NT.  However, I limit those instruments to ones that are complementary of the hymns and singing, not instruments that are the focal point.

I have been in services with some absolutely talented guitar players.  At the end of the service you would hear some folks say, man that guitar riff that _________ played today was great, man he should start a band and make a fortune recording.  Was the music focusing the worship service on God, or was it focusing on the band?  Or my other favorite discussion after the service, man I wish we would just have an hour of the band ripping and get rid of the preaching junk!!!!


----------



## GeauxLSU (May 12, 2006)

All good points Rey....


----------



## reylamb (May 12, 2006)

GeauxLSU said:
			
		

> All good points Rey....


You know what they say about blind squirrels!!!!


----------



## leroy (May 12, 2006)

What is ya'll's take on some of the modern day Christian music groups, Point Of Grace, Mercy Me, Mark Schultz, Casting Crowns, Steven Curtis Chapman are they wrong in singing the style that they do.


----------



## cowboyron (May 12, 2006)

leroy said:
			
		

> You are kidding, right? If not then I'll take it up with God when I get there that we had a guitar and drums in our Church music. So you have no piano or organ in your Church?



What part....the gopher wood or the he goats and ram ?
Oh I must be kidding about the instruments.
No Sir I'm not kidding about any of it. And no, when you walk into our Church you will not find a piano or organ, let alone any kind of drums and guitar.
We speak one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with our hearts unto God. (Eph. 5:19)

Col. 3:16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts unto God. 

Leroy, I can assure you I have no problem with ya'lls piano and organ. We are a New Testament Church and where the scriptures speak we speak but where the scriptures are silent we are silent.
Call us chicken if you will ....we call it The Infallible Safe Way.


----------



## leroy (May 12, 2006)

cowboyron said:
			
		

> What part....the gopher wood or the he goats and ram ?
> Oh I must be kidding about the instruments.
> No Sir I'm not kidding about any of it. And no, when you walk into our Church you will not find a piano or organ, let alone any kind of drums and guitar.
> We speak one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with our hearts unto God. (Eph. 5:19)
> ...



Would be interesting to hear and see,


----------



## cowboyron (May 12, 2006)

Leroy, On the last Wed. of the month we have a sing nite. It is awesome all the men,.... well not all but most will lead a psalm or hymn. It is very up lifting and I myself am very impressed on how it sounds.......it is beautiful.


----------



## reylamb (May 15, 2006)

leroy said:
			
		

> What is ya'll's take on some of the modern day Christian music groups, Point Of Grace, Mercy Me, Mark Schultz, Casting Crowns, Steven Curtis Chapman are they wrong in singing the style that they do.


Who?  It is hard to have a take when I have never heard of any of those folks.


----------



## StriperAddict (May 15, 2006)

cowboyron said:
			
		

> Leroy, On the last Wed. of the month we have a sing nite. It is awesome all the men,.... well not all but most will lead a psalm or hymn. It is very up lifting and I myself am very impressed on how it sounds.......it is beautiful.



No doubt !!

While I enjoy most forms of Christian praise music, I always remember the time I was at the Urbana Missions Conference and hearing over 10 thousand voices praising the Lord.  It gave me a glimpse of the praise we'll sing in heaven


----------



## leroy (May 16, 2006)

reylamb said:
			
		

> Who?  It is hard to have a take when I have never heard of any of those folks.




missing some good music they play them and others on HIS radio a Christian radio station.


----------



## Win270Brown (May 16, 2006)

Those artists are top notch Christian artists. Good stuff.


----------



## Madsnooker (May 16, 2006)

The big screens at big churches are so those further back can see as those up front can. nothing more nothing less.


----------



## brofoster (May 16, 2006)

My final thoughts:

I have really enjoyed all of the input from everyone.  Like I said before, it is good to hear that you all even care.  We are surrounded by people that don't.  I believe that as with anything though give a man an inch and within a week it will be a mile.  Christians today are moving through a new age with increasingly more complex issues and concerns that it will face.  Satan has devised new and complex strategies to subdue the hearts and minds of those who are not vigilant.  He doesn't kick in the door, he comes disguised as the friendly protective police officer.  

The first churches bear no record of using instruments.  Granted in the OT they may have been used by David but that wasn't even in the Temple.  Within the last few hundred years the pianos and organs made their way on to the scene.  Eventually the addition of guitars and drums showed up mainly in black churches with the Jazz and Blues era.  Eventually men became smart enough to praise God outside of worship because their radical views and were "unacceptable."  Actually outside of the worship service is fine to me.  Then someone within the last 10 years got the bright idea of how interesting the service would be if we could "rock out" inside the church.  Probably driven by the parents of young folk.  

Do you see where I'm going with this.  God has not changed but we have changed, and we have changed him.  Where is the limit, where is the line.  I have seen it all from Christian rock to rap, and I just don't see Jesus with the gansta lean or bangin his head.  

We are in this world, and not of this world.  I'm just passing through.  Instead of the church going out to the world, the world has made it's way into the church.  To the point that you can't tell one from the other.  We dress like they do, talk like em, sing like em, praise like em, and sometimes act like em. 

CHRISTIANS ARE SANCTIFIED.  SEPERATED AND SET APART FOR THE EXCLUSIVE PURPOSE AND SERVICE OF GOD!

So rock, rap, jam, and play on!  I just can't do it.  I still love you, but it aint for me.

Again we may not always agree, but I do respect the forum and all of its members.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (May 16, 2006)

brofoster said:
			
		

> My final thoughts:
> 
> I have really enjoyed all of the input from everyone.  Like I said before, it is good to hear that you all even care.  We are surrounded by people that don't.  I believe that as with anything though give a man an inch and within a week it will be a mile.  Christians today are moving through a new age with increasingly more complex issues and concerns that it will face.  Satan has devised new and complex strategies to subdue the hearts and minds of those who are not vigilant.  He doesn't kick in the door, he comes disguised as the friendly protective police officer.
> 
> ...




AMEN!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GeauxLSU (May 16, 2006)

Would like to shake your hand and attend one of your services one day brofoster....


----------



## Pale Blue Dun (May 16, 2006)

It's funny how we can get caught up in these little discussions about the legalities of this and that. Christianity is one of the most simple of all religions and it all boils down to one thing...love.

The Bible is a love letter to us from our Father and the worship is our response. Is there any wrong way to tell someone that you love them? Sing or don't sing, pick or don't pick, beat or don't beat but above all worship our Lord wit hall of your heart, soul and mind.

And BTW..I love Casting Crowns, Mercy Me and Third Day. When I worship I want to ROCK!


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (May 16, 2006)

I'm gonna be a little different. We do not use musical inst. in our services. I am a primitive baptist.  Only singing. Used to be that way all over Ga. but not anymore but i guess to each his own. Not sure if there is really anything wrong with it. Our pastors say there is but it's hard to reason sometimes


----------



## Win270Brown (May 17, 2006)

adpruitt2, I like that you think for yourself. A lot of folks take pastor's word as Holy Scripture. I'm with Pale Blue Dun. All about the heart.


----------



## BuckinFish (May 17, 2006)

you ever seen me play the trumpet in front of the church?, im surprised they let me come back


----------



## cowboyron (May 17, 2006)

It's all in the scriptures of what he wants us to do and how to do it......it's simple..;

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE


----------



## leroy (May 17, 2006)

cowboyron said:
			
		

> It's all in the scriptures of what he wants us to do and how to do it......it's simple..;
> 
> BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE




I think its simple to, if your Church has instruments and everyone is ok with it then I think its fine. Same deal if you dont have them.


----------



## leroy (May 17, 2006)

adpruitt2 said:
			
		

> I'm gonna be a little different. We do not use musical inst. in our services. I am a primitive baptist.  Only singing. Used to be that way all over Ga. but not anymore but i guess to each his own. Not sure if there is really anything wrong with it. Our pastors say there is but it's hard to reason sometimes




I have never been in a Church in my part of Ga. that did not have at least a piano.


----------



## Madsnooker (May 18, 2006)

Many documented instruments used in the Old Testament. I don't think God changed his mind.

We have wonderful worship with Piano, drums, organ, bass giutars, sax, clarinet and a few others.

Our worship services are awesome. Yes, we sometimes sing with no instuments and it sounds awesome but as soon as the instruments start back in it is just as good. Sometimes our sax player will do a song with a clarinet as the congregation just listens and it is beautiful. Alot of people just close their eyes and worship. I have a hard time with thinking that is a problem with God. I feel he absolutely loves our worship with and without instruments. The Old Testament says just that.

I do not mean to be judgemental at all and respect anyones view that doesn't want instruments but as I read thru this thread I couldn't help but think back to the questions the religous leaders brought to Jesus concerning topics like this that had nothing to do with salvation. 

Based on his answers in the New Testament I would think his reply might be something along the lines of "If my people are worshiping Me and My Father and are using instruments making a joyfull noise unto Us why are you concerned"!!  That is just my take anyways. 

My post is not meant to imply anything towards anyone on this thread.


----------



## leroy (May 18, 2006)

good post snook.


----------



## Lead Poison (May 19, 2006)

IMHO, I believe using instruments is fine with God and it even enhances his worship .


----------



## Derek (May 24, 2006)

My view is if God gives someone a talent to play an instrument, don't you think the best way for that person to use their talent is to play it to praise the LORD!!!!


----------



## Jody Hawk (May 24, 2006)

Derek said:
			
		

> My view is if God gives someone a talent to play an instrument, don't you think the best way for that person to use their talent is to play it to praise the LORD!!!!



Amen Derek !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## yellowhammer (Jun 7, 2006)

Many instruments were used in the Bible,and not just in Psalms.A friend of mine told me that his church believes in only using instruments that were used in the Bible.I asked",Does your pastor use a microphone?"Answer-"Well,uh,yeah."Yellowhammer.


----------



## SlipperyHill Mo (Jun 27, 2006)

In my opinion, God really does not care one way or the other about musical instruments. He is only looking for a personal relationship with each one of us.

God is not a "legalist". Man is the one with all the rules. God uses His love and grace to motivate our actions, not a bunch of rules.


----------



## Tn_Extreme (Jul 25, 2006)

The Bible says there will be instruments being  played in Heaven while we sing a song the angels dont even know.

If you will notice...The same denomination that stands against musical instruments in church services also have perverted the salvation message of God , teaching contrary to the Bible.


----------



## 270win (Jul 26, 2006)

*This is a general response...*

We have to be very careful not to become the Pharisees and Saducees of our time.  The religious leaders of Jesus' day added many man made rules and traditions to God's word.  

Worship isn't about what YOU prefer.  Worship should not be for you or me.  If it's what you prefer then it may not be what God prefers...  How do you know what God prefers anyway?  

God is creative, If He fits in your "box" of rules then you are either all knowing(which you are not), or you could be missing out on many aspects of who He is.  Jesus was/is radical in His ministry.  

The first miracle He performed was at a party with drinking going on.. Did He condemn these "drunk sinners" that many of our churches would bannish and ridicule?  No, He made more wine for them... (I'm not suggesting that our churches buy wine for people who drink) Actually He made them the best wine they had tasted yet....  He ate with tax collectors.  Ministered to lepers, prostitutes and adulterers...

My point?  In context, with the kind of radical ministry that Jesus was about while He was here in the flesh, I doubt He's as concerned about music/worship styles as some of us are...

God created us to worship Him.  On a mission trip to Africa we saw an entire village saved by faith in Jesus.  The outpouring of worship and joy was overwhelming... But it didn't sound like anything that you would hear in a church in Georgia...  It was an incredible sound of praise...  And it was all for God alone.

270


----------



## toddboucher (Jul 26, 2006)

We use instruments in our service, the only ones I know of which don't are the Christ of Christ--

I bet they can sing better


----------



## leroy (Jul 26, 2006)

We are going to two services the first being contemporary with drums, guitars, and a keyboard for music and praise, we currently have this on our Sun. P.M service. We are in the process of looking into building a new sanctuary this is a way for us to help with the crowd untill then.


----------



## Oldstick (Jul 26, 2006)

I think any music kind that worships and uplifts the Gospel message is fine.  If people enjoy the music, that can be a way to attract them in to hear the message.  I am not suggesting that churches compromise anything just to attract people though.   But the fact of life for many of us who grew up since the 1950s with TV and radio prevalent, is that it is awful hard to enjoy a silent funeral-like service with only an organ playing 200 year old hymns.


----------



## 270win (Jul 26, 2006)

greers57 makes an excellent point.  That's the association that some people have with traditional hymns... That doesn't make hymns bad..  You know it's interesting, the hymns that are the only "acceptable" form of musical worship to some today were the "wierd new sound" of 150 years ago.  Many of the hymns are old bar tunes that Christian song writers changed the words to...  (yes I said bar tunes)  They did that to reach their generation.  They took the popular music of their day and used it to lead people to God.  

Many people accused them of heresy.  Like Solomon said in Ec 1:9 That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun.

Be blessed...

270


----------



## SBG (Jul 26, 2006)

270win said:
			
		

> gYou know it's interesting, the hymns that are the only "acceptable" form of musical worship to some today were the "wierd new sound" of 150 years ago.  Many of the hymns are old bar tunes that Christian song writers changed the words to...  (yes I said bar tunes)  They did that to reach their generation.  They took the popular music of their day and used it to lead people to God.
> 
> Many people accused them of heresy.  Like Solomon said in Ec 1:9 That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun.
> 
> ...



You may want to research some of the "old hymns" before making that statement. I know some were old "bar tunes;" however, I think that saying "many" is a huge leap.


----------



## 270win (Jul 26, 2006)

Oh, sorry....  Some were old bar tunes.   That in no way changes the point.  

I just think it's interesting that this was happening 150 years ago and the "traditional" Christians back then had issues with music and worship styles too.  And if the Lord does not come to get us by then, 150 years from now people will be upset about the new musical styles of worship saying, "Casting Crowns is the only acceptable style of music..." (That's a popular contemporary worship band)

Be blessed...

270


----------

