# Rem Model 700, bolt lug lap and facing issue



## bluegrasswindage (Dec 9, 2014)

Gentlemen:

I wanted to attempt some basic accurizing on my Model 700 chambered in 270 win. In addition of eqoxy bedding the action, saw some videos on lapping the bolt lugs and bolt face... seems easy enough. 

Considering that lapping would remove material material from the bolt face and lug landings, this might cause headspacing issues (I think). Ergo, I bought the tooling and also a set of go/no-go gauges.... . Bad news: pre-modification testing revealed that the no-go gauge allows the bolt to fully close with the same action-feel as the go-gauge. Adding approximately 0.004" (via one layer of scotch tape to the no-go gauge) and the lugs are darn-near ready to engage... with force (not much, a few pounds) I could get the bolt to engage.

Note: I also reload and have not observed any signs of over-pressure i.e. expansion at the heal nor lower-waist of the spent cartridges. One exception: I have notice a minor amount of flattening of the primer (even at low-pressure starter powder charges). No other over-pressures signs, such as stuck cartridges, primer holes, etc.

Now, I am getting anxious. I just ordered a field gauge, because I understand that is the ultimate "do not exceed" headspace gauge.

Questions: Am I hosed? If I do the minimum lapping to the face and bolt lugs, what's the probability that the rifle will need to have the barrel / action headspace reset? Is it worth it?



Cheers,

Marc


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## godogs57 (Dec 9, 2014)

Not "hosed" at all....I would send the rifle to a competent gunsmith and have them remove the barrel and set the barrel back by one thread and then rechamber it. While they were at it, I'd also have them face off the receiver and square everything up...

What you are doing is done every time an action is trued up by a gunsmith...they just carry it a step further to finish the job. 

Check out this link and I'd advise calling him for his opinion. Excellent gunsmith for what you are looking for. 

http://www.cprifles.com/about.html


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## The Longhunter (Dec 9, 2014)

While I basically agree with godogs57, being as you stated you reload, as long as you use once fired brass that is only neck sized, you shouldn't have to worry about it.  Cartridges will headspace off the shoulder. and you shouldn't have a problem.


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## hayseed_theology (Dec 9, 2014)

godogs57 said:


> Not "hosed" at all....I would send the rifle to a competent gunsmith and have them remove the barrel and set the barrel back by one thread and then rechamber it. While they were at it, I'd also have them face off the receiver and square everything up...
> 
> What you are doing is done every time an action is trued up by a gunsmith...they just carry it a step further to finish the job.
> 
> ...



What he said.


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## godogs57 (Dec 9, 2014)

The Longhunter said:


> While I basically agree with godogs57, being as you stated you reload, as long as you use once fired brass that is only neck sized, you shouldn't have to worry about it.  Cartridges will headspace off the shoulder. and you shouldn't have a problem.



And pretty soon you will be dealing with case/head separation issues...the case will be stretched beyond its design limits the first time it is shot in a "too long" chamber. Neck sizing will help...but even so, on your second shots from that brass you will be putting a strain on that brass that should not be happening. What about your third, or fifth, or tenth time you reload the brass??? 

I'd just pay a little money, get it done right, and know I don't have to worry each time I pull the trigger.


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## deadend (Dec 9, 2014)

I'd run a false shoulder, fireform, and keep trucking.


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## TrailBlazinMan (Dec 10, 2014)

Remember when using chamber gauges to remove the ejector, extractor, and firing pin assembly. You do not want any false readings- so use a stripped bolt. Also as soon as there is resistance on the bolt closing there is your measurement. You can crush a no-go gauge (especially with shims) to get a false reading.

Unless you are using 80 grit lapping compound it will take a lot of work to lap the lugs back to where the bolt would close on a field gauge. 

I second godogs57 and Hayseed, take it to a competent 'smith and let him shorten the chamber for you.


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## BriarPatch99 (Dec 10, 2014)

I'd use new brass and do what deadend said then do what longhunter said except I would do a partial  full length size to fit the chamber ...

But if you want it done right get it fixed as the others have said ...

But you can make it shoot great just as it is ... just takes a little extra work during forming brass...  you can even shoot factory loaded ammo to get once fired brass....  if you "know" how to get it to with out the "stretch"  godogs speaks of ... it can be done but again it takes an extra step but only once for the life of the brass...


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## hayseed_theology (Dec 10, 2014)

bluegrasswindage said:


> If I do the minimum lapping to the face and bolt lugs, what's the probability that the rifle will need to have the barrel / action headspace reset?



I assume you are going to remove the barrel to lap the bolt face, right?  All the tools I am familiar with screw into receiver, unless you are using a lathe.  If you already have the barrel off, it seems worth your time to have the receiver face and locking lug seats trued.  And, while you have the barrel off, have the smith bump back and rechamber the barrel.


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## jglenn (Dec 10, 2014)

how much of you bolt lugs engage today?  

use some 600 grit compound on the lugs and see how much of the bolt lugs show  lapping from the compound.. what you want is for both lugs to show the lapping at least on 1/3 on each of each lug.   beyond that it's just extra money as they say...if you only have one lug showing the lapping then you have some issues as far as accuracy goes.  you just want to lap enough to see where you are at.  a little cold blue on the back of the bolt lugs prior will help

I wouldn't worry about the bolt face just yet.

Personally, I'd check you lug engagement as it exist today, then bed the rifle and free float the barrel... it may well surprise you assuming the headspace is under the Field gage


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## rayjay (Dec 12, 2014)

Put a T36 Weaver on the rifle and 4 of some sort of wind indicators out on the range and probably cut your groups in half without doing anything to the firing mechanism.


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## bluegrasswindage (Dec 12, 2014)

jglenn said:


> how much of you bolt lugs engage today?
> 
> use some 600 grit compound on the lugs and see how much of the bolt lugs show  lapping from the compound.. what you want is for both lugs to show the lapping at least on 1/3 on each of each lug.   beyond that it's just extra money as they say...if you only have one lug showing the lapping then you have some issues as far as accuracy goes.  you just want to lap enough to see where you are at.  a little cold blue on the back of the bolt lugs prior will help
> 
> ...



First off, let me say how grateful that I am for everyones wisdom. Appreciate all of y'all 

Just got notice from Midway that my Field gauge is on it's way. A lot will depend on that... I will fully disassemble the bolt and see what happens. If the bolt won't close, I will polish the bolt face and lap the lugs and retest. At that point, if the headspace is "even close to over spec", I will have a smith cut one turn off of the threads and reset chamber/headspace. I intend to get a timed brake installed, that would probably be the time to do all of that stuff. Agreed?

Once everything is lapped and faced, if I get anywhere near lug-engagement with the field gauge, I will just do the full monty. This weapon is like a member of my family and she deserves it 

Thanks again, men. Appreciate your insights!


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## Darkhorse (Dec 14, 2014)

What kind of groups are you getting now? What have you done to the rifle?
How much load development have you done.
Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse.
The attached photo is from a BDL that had a warped stock. I bedded the receiver and the first 2 inches of the barrel tight, then bedded the forend but left the barrel free floating.
I also did a trigger job on the old Walker trigger but a replacement is a better option IMO.
Point is, there is a lot that can be done before you start removing any metal.
Not benchrest groups by any means but alright for a factory rifle. Shot with a 10X scope which is not enough magnification for really testing a rifle and load as you can't really see exactly where the crosshairs are.


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## leoparddog (Dec 15, 2014)

My concern is that it closes on a No-Go gauge.  That by itself warrants a trip to a gunsmith.    If you lap the lugs and polish the bolt face with the rifle assembled you are only going to increase the headspace making your headspace problem worse and probably not increase the accuracy any.

If the gun is pretty new, give Remington a call and see if they will service it.  Once you've messed with it, that option will be off the table.


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