# Rem 700 ADL trigger issue



## wrhinehart (Aug 1, 2017)

A Pre 64 Remington Model 700 ADL  in 7MM Rem Mag.


I replaced the stock will a Bell and Carlsile to provide Fully floated  for accuracy. 
. 
Here's my issue:
with the barreled action out of the stock the trigger pull is 2 lbs.
As soon as I bolt it in the weight jumps to 5.5 lbs.
I see nothing binding.
So....
I got layup fluid and put it all over the trigger assembly.
I found no binding or interference.

I have the stock bolted on to the action and get 3.5 lbs with the screws just barely tight. Not tightened down hard.

With the action out its 2 lbs pull. 

When I tighten it down hard it jumps to 5.5 LBS pull.

What do you think?

I'm at a loss

Bill


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## rayjay (Aug 1, 2017)

Obviously the bedding surface is not up to snuff. When you tighten up the action screws you are bending your action and probably binding up the 'sear safety cam' [ the correct Remington nomenclature ]. The SSC must be bearing down on the 'trigger connector' causing the trigger pull to go up. You can look on Numrich site to see the exploded views with the parts names.

Whenever I install a 700 trigger I make sure that the side plates of the trigger housing have not been pushed in at the rear. When you are tapping in the retaining pins sometimes they can be tight and this can push the side plate in against the SSC and bind it up. After I drive in the pins I take a soft piece of metal and tap the side plates outward at the very rear. You can see if they are pinched inward because they should be out tight against the sides of the trigger cutout in the rec.

One way you might could see if this is the problem is to remove the bolt and while holding the trigger rearward take a small drift or punch and push down on the SSC and make sure it is not binding up. Do this with the action out and then with it torqued down and see what happens. 

I have been working on the bedding of a couple of 40X stocks lately and you do need to make sure there is nothing touching the safety lever, the back of the trigger housing and the bolt release lever and bolt stop release.

Let us know what you find.


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## rayjay (Aug 1, 2017)

Also make sure the recoil lug is not bottoming out and that the action screws are not too long and touching the bolt although this last is instantly apparent.

I've got 2 stripped 700 recs coming for project guns and it's all fresh in my mind right now. Ready to get to work !!


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## Jester896 (Aug 1, 2017)

yep...X2...check the rear action screw it might be a little long for the new stock.


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## jmoser (Aug 2, 2017)

Some older rifle designs allow the stock and/or scope base screws, if 1 thread too long, to bind up the action / bolt if fully tightened.  Not uncommon especially with aftermarket stocks.

Dust the stock inletting with carpenters chalk etc and see if it is rubbing on any action surfaces.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 2, 2017)

Thanks all.. Back to work


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## wrhinehart (Aug 2, 2017)

OK i looked and tried to follow RayJays  advice..

I can't figure this out. Am I dense?

I don't have another trigger to look at so I can't tell anything.

The issue seems to be when I bolt the action in the stock but I cant seem to find out why.

Bill


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## jglenn (Aug 3, 2017)

insure the bolt is not hitting the stock when in the closed position. if so  open the bolt handle channel up for clearance.


try bolting the action down Without the bolt in place.. look at both receiver screws to make sure they are not too long especially the small rear screw..


you can also add a piece of paper or business card under the front of the receiver near the front screw to raise the action when it's bolted in just to see if this resolves the issue.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 3, 2017)

bolt is not hitting
bolts are not too long
when I drop the action in, the 3 bolts go in straight and easily.
I'll try the business card under the front screw area next
The action does seem to rock back and forth in the stock now


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## jglenn (Aug 3, 2017)

assume you have tried it in your old stock just for giggles


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## wrhinehart (Aug 3, 2017)

yes..same issue. this is making me crazy.

Put a business card under the front bolt. no change
oh yea...
even with the action out of the stock, the trigger pull is not consistent but not as far off as it is bolted in

something is not right her


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## wrhinehart (Aug 3, 2017)

Jester896 said:


> yep...X2...check the rear action screw it might be a little long for the new stock.



Nope..No striking the bolt


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## tommyjoe (Aug 3, 2017)

*700 trigger*

Lay the action in the stock. Lightly snug the screws. Then start tightening them one turn at a time while checking the trigger pull in between turns. this should give a clue where it is drawing the action down too tight You may have to shim the stock on the screw that is causing the problem.
Tom


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## wrhinehart (Aug 4, 2017)

Thanks...I'll try that and report


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## Jester896 (Aug 5, 2017)

I seem to remember once I did have a problem installing a Jewell trigger in my 700P.  It was rubbing ever so slightly on the trigger guard.  It really changed the trigger pull weight too.  Once I opened it up the extra trigger pull when assembled went away.  It had a DM system in it not ADL tho

just another thought


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## wareagle700 (Aug 6, 2017)

Sounds like the trigger is contacting the stock somewhere or the action is flexing. Shims aren't the answer, you need to make certain there is plenty of clearance around the trigger and then a stress free bedding job should fix any issues.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 6, 2017)

Thank you all for the suggestions.

The shims don't seem to help.
I've bolted the action in and am getting 4 lbs pull now


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## wrhinehart (Aug 6, 2017)

The bedding is clear. I can slide a business card up all the way to the recoil lug.
This is making me crazy. If I can't figure this out, I doubt anyone can


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## Jester896 (Aug 6, 2017)

put it back in the old stock and see what you get...just curious.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 7, 2017)

Jester
I put the old stock back on. Same problem.
This is pure madness

NEWS FLASH
I took the action out and set the thing down and measured the trigger pull several times in a row
1. 2.2 lbs
2. 3.8 lbs
3. 5.6 lbs
4. 4.8 lbs
5. 5.8 lbs
6. 3.1 lbs
7. 7.5 lbs

LOL

It seems gentlemen that I've been chasing my tail and accidentally leading us all on.

Its the trigger itself. the stock is not the issue it seems. The changes seem to be inside the trigger assembly.

I need another one or take this apart and find what is floating around inside it.
Sorry


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## wrhinehart (Aug 7, 2017)

maybe the issue is inside the trigger assembly itself


Thats all I think it could be.

Now I just need a large and clear schematic before I even ATTEMPT taking it apart.

Anyone?


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## wrhinehart (Aug 7, 2017)

Thank You everyone and sorry to be a pain.
This is insane


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## rayjay (Aug 7, 2017)

The trigger pivot pin is an interference fit in the side plates so it has to be drive out with an appropriate drift. Once it's out and the sear is out that's about it. You may have to unscrew the over travel screw which is the upper one in the front. Should probably remove the pull weight spring and screw also which is the lower one in the front.

The std pull weight spring is too stiff for a lighter pull. If you try to lighten it too much you end up with insufficient preload and the trigger doesn't reset properly. You can buy lighter weight pull springs or just cut one out of a tire valve core.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 7, 2017)

Thanks Ray Jay.
I'm so embarrassed about this

I would like a pull of about 2.5 lbs but with it that low I don't think the trigger will reset backwards with a stock spring on the weight adjustment screw. I don't want it going off when I take the safety off. 
I'm learning

 A tire valve center spring? The whole thing?


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## Jester896 (Aug 7, 2017)

before you take it apart you might try to clean it.  Use lighter fluid as the solvent and wash it out good.  Then blow it out with air.

like rayjay said...if you are trying to get 2# out of the factory spring...that may prove difficult...I would change it as he suggested. Here is one I have used.

Then find a set of adjustment instructions or better yet take it to a qualified Smith.  If you are not comfortable that you can do this properly...DON'T

make sure you reseal the screws if you adjust it


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## rayjay (Aug 7, 2017)

You have to cut the valve core apart and then shorten the spring to suit. Probably easier just to buy the one from Ernie the Gunsmith.


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## jglenn (Aug 8, 2017)

+1 on the springs from Ernie... use his Varmit spring for the 700 and then adjust... Be CAREFUL not to get the sear engagement to short... you should be able to  bang the side of the receiver with your palm and not have the trigger let go..


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## WishboneW (Aug 9, 2017)

X again on Earnie. I also bought his sear spring for my ADL.  Changed both sprrings. Completely satisfied for $20


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## wrhinehart (Aug 9, 2017)

I cleaned the trigger assem.
With the stock off I got it down to 2.4 lbs and it is was consistent. The weight didn't  change after several dry fires.
I put it back into the stock and up the weight went again.
I can't see anything binding.
I backed off the screws and it still stayed high.
I just set the stock onto the action without screws and the pull weight stayed high.
The trigger is working correctly but somehow the stock is hitting somewhere but for the life of me I can't tell where.

Using a flashlight I looked inside the recess and nothing.

I can't afford paying a gunsmith the time he'd need to fix this


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## Jester896 (Aug 9, 2017)

wrhinehart said:


> I just set the stock onto the action without screws and the pull weight stayed high.



was the trigger guard still on it?




wrhinehart said:


> Using a flashlight I looked inside the recess and nothing.



Did you try the pull weight while the trigger guard was off?

hard to fix without looking at it...your welcome to send it...I ain't no gunsmith


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## wrhinehart (Aug 10, 2017)

Yes..
with the barreled action out the trigger pull climbs then drops off to 2.5 lbs. Then after bolting the action into the stock it jumps to as high as 7.5 lbs.

There must be something bent inside the trigger assem. is all I can figure.
It is after all a 7mm mag. Its a shoulder fired cannon


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## wrhinehart (Aug 10, 2017)

Who is Earnie and how do I contact him?


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## wrhinehart (Aug 10, 2017)

I spoke with the Timney tech. He asked all the right questions.
It seems the guy I bought the rifle from bragged about how he was shooting WAY OVERLOADS out of it. (Its a 7MM Mag!)
The tech said there are no pins to bend inside the trigger and that the older stock triggers were weak. He said poor metalurgy.
He said that overloads can cause the holes in the assembly to become oval and cause a lot of assorted problems.
BINGO.

We have ignition.
I need a new trigger assembly.

Thanks all for your support and help.
Ill let you know


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## wrhinehart (Aug 10, 2017)

News:

I called Timney Triggers and spoke with their tech support.

The tech guy was cool and very knowledgeable.
I detailed the issue for him. He asked a couple questions.
I told him about the former owner overloading his reloads. He said that even though there are no pins that go through the assembly, there are pivot pins on some of the parts like the sear and that its a friction fit between the sides. He suspects that the cheap tin body which have holes in them for those pivots has probably ovaled out.
He told me he's seen this before on older 700's but this was the first time he'd heard of it in the big magnum.

He said that it's his guess that its probably the assembly. He recommended that I contact Remington and see if they can do anything or just save my money and buy a new trigger.

I called Remington. The people were very nice and I was honest with them and told them the issue was probably caused by overloaded handloads. I was instructed to fill out a form and get into the class action suit that is soon to be complete.

The serial number indicates that this rifle was built in 1962.

They told me that they will replace the trigger with the newest X-Mark Pro externally adjustable unit and my model 700 fits this class action. They also said they will pay for the shipping both ways to my door.

I sent in the beginning paperwork today

Developing


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## jmoser (Aug 11, 2017)

X mark pro is not a bad trigger; my 700 SPS .308 came with it [replaced with a Jewel.]  You should be happy with it.


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## rayjay (Aug 11, 2017)

Ernie the Gunsmith has a spring for the X Mark Pro Adjustable trigger. I'm putting together a 700 from parts on hand and when I sell it I will install an X Mark Pro Adjustable since there has be so much negative press about the old style.


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## wrhinehart (Aug 14, 2017)

Erney

The guy I bought this rifle from swears he was hand loading 175 grain mag tips and running them thru a chronograph and was getting nearly 3200 fps.

THATS WAY OVER SAMMI specs.

Im NOT bad mouthing anyone let alone this rifle. In fact about 9 years ago I took it into a gunsmith who used a NO GO gauge in it and told me the chamber was unsafe. Its pre 64 so he set the barrel back.
All is good now.
The model 700 is a brute


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## WishboneW (Aug 14, 2017)

Google earniethegunsmith for his web site. Whatever trigger you get bac from Remington is likely to be over your desired pull weight


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## Darkhorse (Aug 31, 2017)

One of the first things I would have done is a good glass bedding job of that receiver. The bedding compound will fill any low spots that might put the action in a bind. So now when you tighten the action screws it pulls it straight and level into it's bedding recess. I think it will work better after this.
If the action rocks in the stock then when you tighten the screws it pulls down into a bind. Time to bed. You rifle will thank you by shooting better than before.

I also agree about the poor quality of the walker trigger housing. The spring holes have a rough finish that can interfere with the spring movement. And I think the springs themselves loose strength over time.


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## kma281 (Sep 1, 2017)

*Rem-Trigger-Inconsistencies-Help!*

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?97839-700-Rem-Trigger-Inconsistencies-Help!

They're talking about this same issue over on Benchrest.com.  Might want to take a look.  Several responses from quality Benchrest gunsmiths


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## Jester896 (Sep 2, 2017)

a PTG Shroud and a Speedlock pin will fix that issue right up/


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## wrhinehart (Sep 12, 2017)

I found a new X-Mark Pro trigger on Ebay.. I'll try that.

Ill report.
DEVELOPING


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## rayjay (Sep 14, 2017)

I just picked up an Xmark Pro adjustable and was able to dig the crud out of the adjuster screws so that the allen wrench would go down into the holes. I replaced the pull wgt spring and properly adjed the creep, pull wgt and over travel. Seems to work just fine. The actual trigger/sear arrangement is basically unchanged from the old design. It's the safety mechanism that is different.


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## wrhinehart (Sep 18, 2017)

NEWS:

I got the X-Mark Pro trigger in the mail on Saturday and put the action on the bench.
It is brand new trigger and has the pin dot on the bolt release so I know it's the newest design.

I replaced the old Weaver trigger assembly.
I put it back together and tested it.


4.5 lbs EVERY TIME I test it.

Conclusion?

The trigger assembly was the problem from the beginning.

The trigger is much crisper with zero creep or over travel.

Much better

Thanks all for the assistance.
you guys are great

Bill

P.S. Its still a bit too high in pull weight for me. Ernie the gunsmith does not show any availability of a spring on the web site.


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## wrhinehart (Sep 18, 2017)

Hey Jester.
What would that do to help other than shave 2 ounces off the weight of the assembled Rifle?

thanks

Bill


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## rayjay (Sep 18, 2017)

If this is the trigger with the second pull wgt adjuster made into the top of the finger lever then Ernie does have a spring for it.


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## wrhinehart (Sep 18, 2017)

Ok..thanks RayJay
after a call to ernies the web site now shows them as available.
I scratched the gunk out of the #1 trigger spring allen screw and rotated it counter clockwise 1 full turn.
The trigger is now breaking at 3 lbs and feels a darn sight better than my old one.
Now I await my new spring.

Thanks

Total investment 
New Trigger with new light release trigger spring?
$25.00


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## Jester896 (Sep 19, 2017)

wrhinehart said:


> Hey Jester.
> What would that do to help other than shave 2 ounces off the weight of the assembled Rifle?
> 
> thanks
> ...



it was a response to the trigger timing issue in the benchrest article.  Instead of file fitting what you have order a properly sized firing pin with a fast lock time than the original assembly.  I think you can get them with steel or aluminum shrouds and I am not sure the 2 oz weight would be significant in a hunting rifle but the faster lock time might be.


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## wrhinehart (Sep 19, 2017)

Excuse my ignorance but what is meant by "faster lock time? How is that significant?


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## rayjay (Sep 19, 2017)

It's the length of time from when the sear is released by the trigger until the firing pin sets off the primer. For super high level 3 position / high power / palma style shooting it might make a difference but for everyone else it's totally irrelevant. The worst centerfire design in the world still has a lock time measured in mili-seconds or micro-seconds or some other abstract measure of time.  I'm actually working on parts for a 700 that would reduce the firing spring pressure but increase the firing pin weight to maintain the same impact force as the original design that works great and is difficult to improve upon.


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## Jester896 (Sep 19, 2017)

wrhinehart said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what is meant by "faster lock time? How is that significant?



a faster lock time means

the time it take for the firing pin to strike after the trigger is pulled.  Pacific Tool & Gauge (PTG) might pay more attention to machining than the factory did.

How is it significant?
it may not be in a hunting situation. it maybe in precision type shooting or somewhere in between


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## wrhinehart (Sep 20, 2017)

I got the spring from Ernie this morning.
I replaced the #1 spring as directed.
This is wonderful.
3 pounds, no creep, no overtravel EVERY TIME !!!!

Thanks all for your assistance.

I know this is not a Jewel trigger but compared to the one I shot with for years. This is SWEET.


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## rayjay (Sep 20, 2017)

If you don't need a Bench Rest [ 1.5 oz ] trigger pull then I've never seen any reason to use anything but a factory 700 trigger.

ETA, with a new pull wgt spring !!!


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## wrhinehart (Sep 22, 2017)

Yea...1.5 wouldn't work for me in my hunting cannon.


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