# Bed stock or buy stock with bedding blocks



## 1gr8bldr (Nov 6, 2011)

I have a Remington 700 and a youth model buckmasters that need to be corrected. Both have 2 different groups. Cool barrel and hot barrel. At this late point, Would I be just as satisfied to buy aftermarket stocks with bedding blocks?


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## deadend (Nov 6, 2011)

A good stock will suffice such as a Ti or McMillan.  The bedding blocks only add weight for the most part.  A properly bedded stock sans block will get you where you want to be.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks foryour response. What are the differences between full bed and pillar bed? I have the houge on my 10/22. They are cheap. $99 for pillar and $189 for full. Thoughts?


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## deadend (Nov 6, 2011)

A full bedding block is molded into the stock to provide a base for the action to engage.  Pillars are machined in where the action screws are to provide a crush proof area for the action screws to be torqued.  Hogues have to have something because they have no structural stability.  The ergos are severly lacking with that massive front end IMO.  Quality stocks like Mcmillan don't need pillars or blocks to provide a solid foundation.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 6, 2011)

deadend said:


> A full bedding block is molded into the stock to provide a base for the action to engage.  Pillars are machined in where the action screws are to provide a crush proof area for the action screws to be torqued.  Hogues have to have something because they have no structural stability.  The ergos are severly lacking with that massive front end IMO.  Quality stocks like Mcmillan don't need pillars or blocks to provide a solid foundation.


At some point, the expense of the "quality" make a bedding job seem like the way to go. What is a typical bed job cost? I'm willing to spend more for a stock since it's to late with gun season coming up soon. What is the cheapest quality stock I can get?


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## deadend (Nov 6, 2011)

You can find Ti take offs for $150ish.  Have you tried bedding and floating the factory Tupperware stock?  It's easy and cheap and DIY.

Most bed jibs I've gotten from a 'smith have been in the $40 range.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 6, 2011)

deadend said:


> You can find *Ti* take offs for $150ish.  Have you tried bedding and floating the factory Tupperware stock?  It's easy and cheap and DIY.
> 
> Most bed jibs I've gotten from a 'smith have been in the $40 range.


 What does this mean? [highlighted in red]


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 6, 2011)

deadend said:


> You can find Ti take offs for $150ish.  Have you tried bedding and floating the factory Tupperware stock?  It's easy and cheap and DIY.
> 
> Most bed jibs I've gotten from a 'smith have been in the $40 range.


 I have a kit from brownells that I ordered last year for this purpose but never used it.


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## germag (Nov 6, 2011)

Sometimes bedding compound doesn't adhere to injection molded plastic stocks all that well. Most folks drill a bunch of little holes in the area of the plastic stock where they want the bedding to adhere for a "mechanical" bond, but I don't know how well that really works. If I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about pillar bedding...that's good if you disassemble and reassemble your rifle a lot, but really if you just invest in a FAT wrench and torque to the same inch/lbs every time, pillar bedding isn't really all that necessary. The FAT is a good investment anyway. You'll use it mounting scopes, tightening action screws, etc.

What I would do if I were you is order a laminate stock or a walnut stock from Boyd's and just glass bed it. It's easy to do...just follow the directions closely, and although it may not give you a noticeable improvement in accuracy, it sure won't hurt anything to bed the action. I'd try free-floating the barrel to start with and see how that does. If things seem to get worse, you can always build up a contact pad on the forearm. Free-floating the barrel is easy...a little tedious if you don't have a barrel channel tool because you will end up using a piece of hardwood dowel and sandpaper to open the channel up....slow going. Always open the channel up enough that you can seal it with some bedding epoxy. The way you get the barrel gap is by putting layers of electrical tape on the barrel for the length of the bedding. Then when you remove the tape, it leaves a gap the thickness of the tape. Use at least 2 layers. When you are bedding a stock, make real sure that you use enough release agent and that all holes that the epoxy could get into are filled with modeling clay or something to prevent the epoxy from getting into them....a stuck stock is a pain in the neck. I always remove the trigger group too just to make sure I don't get epoxy in there.


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## deadend (Nov 7, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> What does this mean? [highlighted in red]



These were stocks made by Bell & Carlson that Remington used on the Titanium rifles and the Mountain Guide series.  You can also source them from Stocky's in the Alaskan guise.  Great stocks, super light, with great ergos.  Some actually have integral bedding blocks.

Given your time crunch, I'd try bedding the factory stock.  Rough up the lug area with a Dremel and sandpaper, then float the barrel with a sandpaper wrapped socket.  Grab some Hornady One Shot lube for a release agent and spray all the metal liberally.  Put a few wraps of tape on the barrel to center it in the channel.  Mix up some JB Weld and put it in the lug and tang area and lay the action in the stock.  I like to use some rubber tubing to tie the action into the stock instead of using the action screws initially. Wait four or five hours and pop the action from the stock, clean up anything that needs it, let it dry overnight, then reinstall the action and torque the screws.  Takes an hour to do and certainly won't hurt.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 7, 2011)

deadend said:


> These were stocks made by Bell & Carlson that Remington used on the Titanium rifles and the Mountain Guide series.  You can also source them from Stocky's in the Alaskan guise.  Great stocks, super light, with great ergos.  Some actually have integral bedding blocks.
> 
> Given your time crunch, I'd try bedding the factory stock.  Rough up the lug area with a Dremel and sandpaper, then float the barrel with a sandpaper wrapped socket.  Grab some Hornady One Shot lube for a release agent and spray all the metal liberally.  Put a few wraps of tape on the barrel to center it in the channel.  Mix up some JB Weld and put it in the lug and tang area and lay the action in the stock.  I like to use some rubber tubing to tie the action into the stock instead of using the action screws initially. Wait four or five hours and pop the action from the stock, clean up anything that needs it, let it dry overnight, then reinstall the action and torque the screws.  Takes an hour to do and certainly won't hurt.


 So do most remove surface to float the barrel or simply lift it slightly with the bed by using the tape around the barrel at the end ?


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 7, 2011)

germag said:


> Sometimes bedding compound doesn't adhere to injection molded plastic stocks all that well. Most folks drill a bunch of little holes in the area of the plastic stock where they want the bedding to adhere for a "mechanical" bond, but I don't know how well that really works. If I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about pillar bedding...that's good if you disassemble and reassemble your rifle a lot, but really if you just invest in a FAT wrench and torque to the same inch/lbs every time, pillar bedding isn't really all that necessary. The FAT is a good investment anyway. You'll use it mounting scopes, tightening action screws, etc.
> 
> What I would do if I were you is order a laminate stock or a walnut stock from Boyd's and just glass bed it. It's easy to do...just follow the directions closely, and although it may not give you a noticeable improvement in accuracy, it sure won't hurt anything to bed the action. I'd try free-floating the barrel to start with and see how that does. If things seem to get worse, you can always build up a contact pad on the forearm. Free-floating the barrel is easy...a little tedious if you don't have a barrel channel tool because you will end up using a piece of hardwood dowel and sandpaper to open the channel up....slow going. Always open the channel up enough that you can seal it with some bedding epoxy. The way you get the barrel gap is by putting layers of electrical tape on the barrel for the length of the bedding. Then when you remove the tape, it leaves a gap the thickness of the tape. Use at least 2 layers. When you are bedding a stock, make real sure that you use enough release agent and that all holes that the epoxy could get into are filled with modeling clay or something to prevent the epoxy from getting into them....a stuck stock is a pain in the neck. I always remove the trigger group too just to make sure I don't get epoxy in there.


 Thanks for your help. I have several videos about this and there's also you tube. I just have never done it. After the first time, I'm sure it will be easy.


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## jglenn (Nov 7, 2011)

you'll have no issues with the remington stocks as far as bedding them. 

even with the aluminum inserts on some stocks we still "skim" bed them to insure a proper fit.

tape around the barrel(.020) will help center the barrel in the channel. also lift it a bit.. if that doesn't free float the barrel then just cut the pads at the end of the forearm


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## deadend (Nov 7, 2011)

I like to sand the channel instead of diagonally raising the action to achieve same.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 7, 2011)

Why is it that all the videos show them tapeing the recoil lug. It seems to me that it should only be coated with a release agent for a snug fit?????


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## germag (Nov 7, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Why is it that all the videos show them tapeing the recoil lug. It seems to me that it should only be coated with a release agent for a snug fit?????



Because you want a little gap there so you can take the action out and put it back in more easily. The recoil lug only really does anything in one direction under recoil, so you can have a little gap on the other side. You tape the front of the recoil lug (and maybe the bottom edge)and then when you seat the action in the stock, you just make sure to put rearward pressure on it so the recoil lug is in contact with the stock recoil lug surface.


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## germag (Nov 7, 2011)

deadend said:


> I like to sand the channel instead of diagonally raising the action to achieve same.



Absolutely. I have a set of Brownells channel cutters.


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## deadend (Nov 7, 2011)

germag said:


> Absolutely. I have a set of Brownells channel cutters.



How do those work on synthetics?


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## germag (Nov 7, 2011)

deadend said:


> How do those work on synthetics?



I would assume it would work OK, but I don't bed or free float injection molded stocks, so I don't know for sure. Not sure about carbon fiber or fiberglss either because usually you order those with the desired barrel channel. I'll skim bed a synthetic with a bedding block, like the choate and HS Precision, but typically those are already completely free-floated.


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## deadend (Nov 7, 2011)

germag said:


> I would assume it would work OK, but I don't bed or free float injection molded stocks, so I don't know for sure. Not sure about carbon fiber or fiberglss either because usually you order those with the desired barrel channel. I'll skim bed a synthetic with a bedding block, like the choate and HS Precision, but typically those are already completely free-floated.


I hardly ever buy new so barrel channels always need some work.


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## germag (Nov 7, 2011)

deadend said:


> I hardly ever buy new so barrel channels always need some work.



I'll loan you mine and you can try it out.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the help. Another thing I would like to understand; Removing material. Is this done so that the bedding compound will not be thin, an effort to strengthen?????


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## germag (Nov 7, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> Thanks for all the help. Another thing I would like to understand; Removing material. Is this done so that the bedding compound will not be thin, an effort to strengthen?????



Yep.


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## ScottD (Nov 8, 2011)

Well, while i like the idea of bedding a rifle - there is only a slight chance this is going to fix your hot barrel cold barrel problem.  Bedding issues tend to show all the time shot to shot or in the case of a wood stock warping it will change day to day, probably from humidity affecting the wood itself.

First thing to check is the current stock/barrel combo free floated?  If not fix that first and try it.  Also check to make sure the action screws are tight and not bottoming out before getting the stock to action fit tight.

If you decide it is the bedding - it is pretty easy to do yourself.  Like was said before, tape the barrel with a couple of wraps of electrical tape.  A couple of tips.

I like to remove about a 1/4 of material so the bedding will be that thick mostly in the bottom - it can be much thinner up the sides. I leave the very edge (that shows) so that the bedding doesn't show and look bad. I just use a dremel tool.  I like to leave small "pads" spaced out under the action at full height so that i can pull the action back to its original position.  After bedding you can then go back and remove those areas and refill them if you wish.

The recoil lug - put a single layer of electrical tape on all the sides except the back facing side.  Most lugs are tapered and if you don't put tape on the other sides and the bottom, the lug will be too tight and act like a wedge as you try to tighten it down in the stock. This is really bad for accuracy.

Brownells has some good instruction in their guntech articles here http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10515/learn/Glas-Bedding-A-Remington-700

At the last Benchrest match I was at there was a guy with a rifle that was having difficulties - throwing shots all over.  The barrel channel looked tight so we check the free float and sure enough it was hitting hard in several areas mainly near the tip of the forend.  So we took it out of the stock between targets and bedded it - using a layer of target paper under the action. That acted like a spacer to relieve the barrel.  Even though i wouldn't recommend that as a long term fix - it helped the accuracy a lot.


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## jmoser (Nov 8, 2011)

Here Ya Go . . . .

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=610143&highlight=


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks for the help. I bedded three rifles. It was easy. I used the brownells kit


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## deadend (Nov 13, 2011)

Post your results!


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 13, 2011)

deadend said:


> Post your results!



You mean pics. If so, it would look just like the factory unless I pulled the action, of which I don't care to do since I re zeroed them Friday. They were within an inch from before but are fine tuned as of now.


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## deadend (Nov 13, 2011)

Pics of groups.  Have you gotten a decrease in aggregate size?


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 13, 2011)

deadend said:


> Pics of groups.  Have you gotten a decrease in aggregate size?


Duh, I should have known that. No, I have not shot them but twice each. Just enough to fine tune the zero. Where I shoot, the land owner likes us to keep it to a minimum. Every deer hunter for miles shows up the day before season to shoot. I like to set a good example. They don't take the hint well. Most of them will wear out the adjustments with those bullet sprayers


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