# Osteen on Pork



## bfriendly (Nov 23, 2010)

OK, so my wife says we are NOT eating pork in our house anymore.............of course I am a BBQ Fiend, so I am like WHAT?    

THen she shows me a Joel Osteen Video(I Love to listen/watch his programs-BTW) and he says in the Bible it tells us that we should not eat Pigs, cause they are filthy animals.   I do not remember him saying WHERE it was that it said that, but I am Distraught to say the least.  Can someone please tell me this is not correct?  Any help on this topic is appreciated.


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## Jeff Raines (Nov 23, 2010)

according to the ols testament a pig is an unclean animal,because it doesn't chew it's cud.


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## Paddle (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't like Osteen but here is a site with info and breaks it into a list:

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/cu/bibledesignate.htm


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## jmharris23 (Nov 23, 2010)

No offense but here is my advice for you: Eat what you want and find someone better to get spiritual advice from.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 23, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> No offense but here is my advice for you: Eat what you want and find someone better to get spiritual advice from.



x2


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## formula1 (Nov 23, 2010)

*Re:*

These are my comments on the subject, from the scriptures.  I cannot say it any better. Christ redeemed us from the law, but each man must do what he believes is right on the matter.

Acts 10
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean." 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common." 

Galatians 4
1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

Joel is right.  God gives us a list of things not to eat in the Old Testament.  Like all the other Laws we are no longer judged by them since we are given Gods Rightousness thrugh Jesus but the Law is still the Law and only by the laws do we know what sin is.  This requirement is not really a Law though.

When I had my heart attack last year, I read a lot of books on what to eat and what not to eat for your health.  What I found amazing is all the things we should not eat that was listed in all those books for medical reasons are the same things God lists in the Bible!  I believe God tells us not to eat these things not because He was trying ot be mean or just setting some rules for us to follow but these things are truly not healthy for your body.  God also gave us a list of things that are good for us like seeds and fruit.  Amazingly all these books also said these are good for us.  Doctors are now telling us what God told us a long time ago.  Amazing.


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## vanguard1 (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> Joel is right.  God gives us a list of things not to eat in the Old Testament.  Like all the other Laws we are no longer judged by them since we are given Gods Rightousness thrugh Jesus but the Law is still the Law and only by the laws do we know what sin is.  This requirement is not really a Law though.
> 
> When I had my heart attack last year, I read a lot of books on what to eat and what not to eat for your health.  What I found amazing is all the things we should not eat that was listed in all those books for medical reasons are the same things God lists in the Bible!  I believe God tells us not to eat these things not because He was trying ot be mean or just setting some rules for us to follow but these things are truly not healthy for your body.  God also gave us a list of things that are good for us like seeds and fruit.  Amazingly all these books also said these are good for us.  Doctors are now telling us what God told us a long time ago.  Amazing.



I agree 100%, that being said I have cut back on pork, but it sure is hard to stop all together , i sure like bacon and sausage.


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## bfriendly (Nov 23, 2010)

I am still and will probably always be confused in this matter..........I am kind of surprised at the Osteen flack, but I like his Positive messages and I think all of us need to be more positive and NOT feel sorry for ourselves.

As far as the Food part of it, I remember being taught(not that is was right) about God wanting/allowing us to eat the Forked hoof animals, like pigs and cows, but NOT like Horses, Donkeys etc...

I find it very difficult to give up Pork as I have grown up with it being my favorite food, period.

But then again, this whole thing would explain why Jews dont eat pork right?


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## hayseed_theology (Nov 23, 2010)

formula1 said:


> These are my comments on the subject, from the scriptures.  I cannot say it any better. Christ redeemed us from the law, but each man must do what he believes is right on the matter.
> 
> Acts 10
> 9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean." 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."
> ...



Exactly.

I would also add Romans 14:17 in there.

"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."


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## Twenty five ought six (Nov 23, 2010)

Applying the same dietary rules you can't eat shrimp or catfish or lobster or crawfish.

The Bible, in the Old Testament, says that women have to stay outside the house for seven days when they are having their periods .  Wonder how that goes over with Mrs. Osteen.

If Joel Osteen is basing his dietary laws on his reading of The Bible, that would be the only part of The Bible he's read.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 23, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Applying the same dietary rules you can't eat shrimp or catfish or lobster or crawfish.
> 
> The Bible, in the Old Testament, says that women have to stay outside the house for seven days when they are having their periods .  Wonder how that goes over with Mrs. Osteen.
> 
> If Joel Osteen is basing his dietary laws on his reading of The Bible, that would be the only part of The Bible he's read.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Applying the same dietary rules you can't eat shrimp or catfish or lobster or crawfish.


Correct and if you do some research you will see that those are the cockroaches of the ocean/water.  They were put there by God to clean up the crap.  Oh add oysters to the list.  Yes I use to love these fish/crustations but they are bad for your health just as the Bible told you they were.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

bfriendly said:


> I am still and will probably always be confused in this matter..........I am kind of surprised at the Osteen flack, but I like his Positive messages and I think all of us need to be more positive and NOT feel sorry for ourselves.
> 
> As far as the Food part of it, I remember being taught(not that is was right) about God wanting/allowing us to eat the Forked hoof animals, like pigs and cows, but NOT like Horses, Donkeys etc...
> 
> ...



This is what the Bible says:
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that only chew the cud, or of them that only part the hoof: the camel, because he cheweth the cud but parteth not the hoof, he is unclean unto you. – Leviticus 11:4

So either and animla that chews the cud or has parted hooves.  So it is not just pigs but cows, deer, camels etc.  Notice that these are red meat animals and of course we all know now that red meat is high in colesterol and is not good for your health.


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## hayseed_theology (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> Notice that these are red meat animals and of course we all know now that red meat is high in colesterol and is not good for your health.



Excessive amounts of red meat are not good for your health.  I don't think it's accurate to make a sweeping statement that red meat is not good for you.  Lean meat has reasonable levels of cholesterol and provides important nutrients.


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## TTom (Nov 23, 2010)

deer have parted hooves and chew the cud
Cows have parted hooves and chew the cud
Sheep have parted hooves and chew the cud

Leviticus said if they do both they are good to eat, if they only do one or the other or if they do neither they are not.


Pigs have parted hooves but no cud chewing
Camels chew cud but have toe nails as opposed to hooves.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> Excessive amounts of red meat are not good for your health.  I don't think it's accurate to make a sweeping statement that red meat is not good for you.  Lean meat has reasonable levels of cholesterol and provides important nutrients.


You can get those same nutrients for other sources that are not as dangerous like Peanuts for instance.  Other than the taste there just is no good reason to eat red meat.  Mind you that is about all I ate before I had a heart attack.


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## TTom (Nov 23, 2010)

Some dietary laws were there more as a matter of forcing man to think about God when preparing food and when eating.

Cheeseburgers are not Kosher, (meat and dairy on the same plate)
Meat on a Pizza would not be Kosher (same reason)

Many if not most of the Laws were there to separate the Jews from the surrounding tribes , to keep them a distinctly separate culture.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

TTom said:


> deer have parted hooves and chew the cud
> Cows have parted hooves and chew the cud
> Sheep have parted hooves and chew the cud
> 
> ...


Hmm I do not read it that way.  It says if they chew a cud "or" have parted hooves.  I do not see where it says if they have both you are good to go.


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## TTom (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy you gotta go back one verse to get that.

Lev 11:3 

"Whatever parts the hoof, and is cloven footed, and chews the cud, among the beasts, that shall you eat."

Note in 11:3 it says "and"

While in 11:4 it says "or"

So to be "clean" (good to eat) it has to be both.


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## hayseed_theology (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> You can get those same nutrients for other sources that are not as dangerous like Peanuts for instance.  Other than the taste there just is no good reason to eat red meat.  Mind you that is about all I ate before I had a heart attack.



There's a reason that many vegetarians have health problems caused by their diet.  Vitamin B12 is a very important vitamin and has no natural, reliable source for a vegan.  They either have to take a supplement or ingest some chemically engineered, fortified food.  Shellfish and beef are some of the best sources of B12.  The key is a balanced diet; I believe your last statement bears that out.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 23, 2010)

Or....we could live in the reality that we are free from the law and that moderation is a good thing, excess is a bad thing and Christ came to save us.

But that's just a thought.

Y'all have a great Thanksgiving.


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## Randy (Nov 23, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Or....we could live in the reality that we are free from the law and that moderation is a good thing, excess is a bad thing and Christ came to save us.
> 
> But that's just a thought.
> 
> Y'all have a great Thanksgiving.



That is my whole point.  We are not free from the Law.  We are not judged by the Law but it still defines sin.


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 23, 2010)

In my house, that would be the sign that it's time to look for a new wife.


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## doublebrowtine (Nov 23, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> Applying the same dietary rules you can't eat shrimp or catfish or lobster or crawfish.
> 
> The Bible, in the Old Testament, says that women have to stay outside the house for seven days when they are having their periods .  Wonder how that goes over with Mrs. Osteen.
> 
> If Joel Osteen is basing his dietary laws on his reading of The Bible, that would be the only part of The Bible he's read.



Amen Brother, people should read their Bible daily and understand for themselves and not go by what others say.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 23, 2010)

Acts 10:9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 
10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 
11 and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 
13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" 
14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." 
15 Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.


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## Thor827 (Nov 23, 2010)

I think you should follow your wife's wishes. As a matter of fact I'll help you out by taking any filthy pork you may have off your hands. PM me and I'll send you an address ........


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## River Rambler (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> Correct and if you do some research you will see that those are the cockroaches of the ocean/water.  They were put there by God to clean up the crap.  Oh add oysters to the list.  Yes I use to love these fish/crustations but they are bad for your health just as the Bible told you they were.



Well Riddle me this....
If you are correct, how come practicing Jews don't live a significant longer life than the rest of us?


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## TTom (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy Lev 11:4 needs context, it shouldn't be lifted without the rest of the section. Lev 11: 2 through 8 are pretty much one section that needs to be kept together for understanding.

Read it again in total and see if what I said makes sense then.

2 and 3 tell the Jewish people what they CAN eat, 4 through 8 tells them what they cannot.


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

This scripture or vision has nothing to do with eating !
 If you read on Peter explains his vision.
Acts 10: 28   You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean..........


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

River Rambler said:


> Well Riddle me this....
> If you are correct, how come practicing Jews don't live a significant longer life than the rest of us?



Pork is the fattest of the meats. A combination of pork and cigaretts can contrive 100s of diffrent poisions.   If you want to argue with God about whats good for you to eat, then good luck with that one. My God knows best from the begining of time. After all He made us.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 23, 2010)

TTom said:


> deer have parted hooves and chew the cud
> Cows have parted hooves and chew the cud
> Sheep have parted hooves and chew the cud
> 
> ...



Does this seem like a completely arbitrary and ridiculous basis for judging which animals should be eaten to anyone else besides me?


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Does this seem like a completely arbitrary and ridiculous basis for judging which animals should be eaten to anyone else besides me?



Makes sense to me brother Hammy. Your just taking offence because of your name.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> Makes sense to me brother Hammy. Your just taking offence because of your name.



Why are the animal's feet important then?


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Why are the animal's feet important then?



Its how God made the animals so we would know the diffrence between clean and unclean. God thinks of everything.


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## decoyed (Nov 23, 2010)

yep, Bible say it.  Joel Osteen is a fraud but he is correct that this is said in the Bible.  Love me some pork though.  Just a common sinner.


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

Wild pigs are full of  parasites. I had beef sausage today and it was delicious. Cant tell the difference.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> formula1 said:
> 
> 
> > These are my comments on the subject, from the scriptures.  I cannot say it any better. Christ redeemed us from the law, but each man must do what he believes is right on the matter.
> ...


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## Ronnie T (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> Pork is the fattest of the meats. A combination of pork and cigaretts can contrive 100s of diffrent poisions.   If you want to argue with God about whats good for you to eat, then good luck with that one. My God knows best from the begining of time. After all He made us.



I once thought you and I were mostly in agreement in the way we accepted God's word.
We are not.


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## Twenty five ought six (Nov 23, 2010)

Randy said:


> Correct and if you do some research you will see that those are the cockroaches of the ocean/water.  They were put there by God to clean up the crap.  Oh add oysters to the list.  Yes I use to love these fish/crustations but they are bad for your health just as the Bible told you they were.




The Old Testament tell me if my brother dies leaving no issue, it's my Biblical duty to have sex with his wife until she is pregnant, less God strike me dead.

Do you have a brother?  Is the missus ready to do her Biblical duty?


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## Twenty five ought six (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> Wild pigs are full of  parasites. I had beef sausage today and it was delicious. Cant tell the difference.



All wild animals, and all domestic animals that aren't fed drugs are full of parasites.

Sheep especially are some of the wormiest things you will ever see.


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## habersham hammer (Nov 23, 2010)

1 Timothy 4

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 

 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 

 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> apoint said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean that you believe in Acts 10 God gave Peter a vision of all various animals, told him to eat, and because of that Gentiles were no longer considered unclean by God or Peter, but Peter should continue believing it did not apply to the very animals God used in the vision??
> ...


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## apoint (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> This scripture or vision has nothing to do with eating !
> If you read on Peter explains his vision.
> Acts 10: 28   You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean..........
> 
> ...


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## Big7 (Nov 23, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I once thought you and I were mostly in agreement in the way we accepted God's word.
> We are not.



Somehow, Ronnie.. I knew that was coming.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> Its how God made the animals so we would know the diffrence between clean and unclean. God thinks of everything.



I see....it's not the toes and digestive system that make an animal unclean.  Rather, it's God that deems an animal clean or not and you can tell simply by the physical attributes, provided as a courtesy.  Makes perfect sense!  

So do you eat pork?  Should pork eaters change their ways or is it adequate to pray after having done so?


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 23, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> All wild animals, and all domestic animals that aren't fed drugs are full of parasites.
> 
> Sheep especially are some of the wormiest things you will ever see.



Let's include fish while we're at it:


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## Ronnie T (Nov 23, 2010)

apoint said:


> apoint said:
> 
> 
> > This scripture or vision has nothing to do with eating !
> ...


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## drippin' rock (Nov 23, 2010)

What a ridiculous argument.


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## SGADawg (Nov 24, 2010)

Can't find the verses right now, but Paul cleared this argument up.  Paraphrasing "It is not that which goes into the mouth that defiles the body, but that which proceeds out of the mouth." 

 Also, speaking on the matter of clean/unclean foods Paul said, again paraphrasing "All things are acceptable, but not all things are expedient".  The context here was that it was it was ok to eat foods like pork, but not do so in the presence of a Jew as it would show insensitivity or cause unnecessary conflict.

Jesus died on the cross to remove me from the bondage of the law.  After saying this, if you feel convicted to abstain from pork or other "unclean" foods, that is between you and God and is none of my business.  There is certainly no biblical reason that would require you to eat these foods.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 24, 2010)

SGADawg said:


> Can't find the verses right now, but Paul cleared this argument up.  Paraphrasing "It is not that which goes into the mouth that defiles the body, but that which proceeds out of the mouth."
> 
> Also, speaking on the matter of clean/unclean foods Paul said, again paraphrasing "All things are acceptable, but not all things are expedient".  The context here was that it was it was ok to eat foods like pork, but not do so in the presence of a Jew as it would show insensitivity or cause unnecessary conflict.
> 
> ...



Well Said.

.


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## TTom (Nov 24, 2010)

SGADawg said:


> Can't find the verses right now, but Paul cleared this argument up.  Paraphrasing "It is not that which goes into the mouth that defiles the body, but that which proceeds out of the mouth."
> 
> Also, speaking on the matter of clean/unclean foods Paul said, again paraphrasing "All things are acceptable, but not all things are expedient".  The context here was that it was it was ok to eat foods like pork, but not do so in the presence of a Jew as it would show insensitivity or cause unnecessary conflict.
> 
> Jesus died on the cross to remove me from the bondage of the law.  After saying this, if you feel convicted to abstain from pork or other "unclean" foods, that is between you and God and is none of my business.  There is certainly no biblical reason that would require you to eat these foods.



Nothing from without a man can defile a man... comes from Mark 7:15

the same concept is reitterated in Romans 14:14 

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."


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## formula1 (Nov 24, 2010)

*Re:*



apoint said:


> This scripture or vision has nothing to do with eating !
> If you read on Peter explains his vision.
> Acts 10: 28   You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean..........



It has to do with the willingness of Peter(a Jew - and still steeped in Jewish traditon) to not show partially to Cornelius(a Gentile and Italian centurion). God wanted Jesus Christ to be preached to this man and Peter to do the preaching. God is amazing and saw the faithfulness of the centurion from afar and rewarded him with the Gospel of Christ, but that is another story.

But the word of God in the vision is no less true.  Or said a different way to make my point, Would God lie in a vision to prove a greater truth to Peter?

Of course, if you want to obey the Levitical law on eating, who am I to suggest otherwise. God bless!


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## Randy (Nov 24, 2010)

Twenty five ought six said:


> The Old Testament tell me if my brother dies leaving no issue, it's my Biblical duty to have sex with his wife until she is pregnant, less God strike me dead.
> 
> Do you have a brother?  Is the missus ready to do her Biblical duty?


I am afraid my brothers wife is too fat for me.


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## apoint (Nov 24, 2010)

formula1 said:


> It has to do with the willingness of Peter(a Jew - and still steeped in Jewish traditon) to not show partially to Cornelius(a Gentile and Italian centurion). God wanted Jesus Christ to be preached to this man and Peter to do the preaching. God is amazing and saw the faithfulness of the centurion from afar and rewarded him with the Gospel of Christ, but that is another story.
> 
> But the word of God in the vision is no less true.  Or said a different way to make my point, Would God lie in a vision to prove a greater truth to Peter?
> 
> Of course, if you want to obey the Levitical law on eating, who am I to suggest otherwise. God bless!



 The vision has nothing to do with eating unclean animals..


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## formula1 (Nov 24, 2010)

*Re:*



apoint said:


> The vision has nothing to do with eating unclean animals..



My friend, we will just agree to disagree on this point.  may God richly bless you in every effort in Christ!


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 24, 2010)

And religious people wonder why the unwashed heathen don't want to take up religion. Good grief. I guess I'm headed to hades with a wad of bacon in one hand and a rack of ribs in the other.


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## formula1 (Nov 24, 2010)

*Re:*



NCHillbilly said:


> And religious people wonder why the unwashed heathen don't want to take up religion. Good grief. I guess I'm headed to hades with a wad of bacon in one hand and a rack of ribs in the other.



Naw, with bacon and ribs you are headed only to some really good eating.  When washed by the blood of Jesus though, you will indeed be well in life and death.  God bless!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 24, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> And religious people wonder why the unwashed heathen don't want to take up religion. Good grief. I guess I'm headed to hades with a wad of bacon in one hand and a rack of ribs in the other.



You won't have to do that.

Christians throughout the ages have been plagued with the notion of making parts of the old law a part of the Gospel of Christ and leaving the other.
This is one of those laws that very clearly did not come into the Gospel, and certainly did not become a part of life for a Gentile who converted to Christ.

But it's still preached hard.
Truth is, one can refuse pork all their life and God will bless them in their belief.


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## Lowjack (Nov 24, 2010)

Randy said:


> Joel is right.  God gives us a list of things not to eat in the Old Testament.  Like all the other Laws we are no longer judged by them since we are given Gods Rightousness thrugh Jesus but the Law is still the Law and only by the laws do we know what sin is.  This requirement is not really a Law though.
> 
> When I had my heart attack last year, I read a lot of books on what to eat and what not to eat for your health.  What I found amazing is all the things we should not eat that was listed in all those books for medical reasons are the same things God lists in the Bible!  I believe God tells us not to eat these things not because He was trying ot be mean or just setting some rules for us to follow but these things are truly not healthy for your body.  God also gave us a list of things that are good for us like seeds and fruit.  Amazingly all these books also said these are good for us.  Doctors are now telling us what God told us a long time ago.  Amazing.



God Gave those Laws exclusively to Israel"If one wants to practice Kosher eating as part of God's law then one should convert totally and accept all 613 Commandments not just those that we like, IMHO.
Now I Grew Up in A Kosher home and don't like pork, the only time I ate pork was in a BBQ at a Coon hunt In West Palm Beach Fla, I was sick for a week, don't know if it was my conscience or it was just too heavy for my stomach.


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## Lowjack (Nov 24, 2010)

In One of The Books of the  Legends of The Jews, Certain Jewish sages taught the pig was too close to humans genetically, it is said it was one of he animals that the Sons Of God used as experiments with human and animal DNA and that is why G-d prohibits the eating of the flesh.
Research Pig's skins and Pig DNA and there might be something to it.
Specially in Indonesia every year there are pigs born that bear a resemblance to human faces, but this also happens all over the world, why is that ?


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## TTom (Nov 24, 2010)

It takes a special kind of dedication to keep a Kosher Kitchen.
While I don't believe it is necessary for me, I find it something I can respect a person for doing as part of their statement of faith.


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## drippin' rock (Nov 24, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> In One of The Books of the  Legends of The Jews, Certain Jewish sages taught the pig was too close to humans genetically, it is said it was one of he animals that the Sons Of God used as experiments with human and animal DNA and that is why G-d prohibits the eating of the flesh.
> Research Pig's skins and Pig DNA and there might be something to it.
> Specially in Indonesia every year there are pigs born that bear a resemblance to human faces, but this also happens all over the world, why is that ?



Hey! you might be on to something here.  We don't chew our cud either!  Hmmmm....


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## Lowjack (Nov 24, 2010)

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## bfriendly (Jan 3, 2011)

drippin' rock said:


> What a ridiculous argument.



Have you not enjoyed this? I have found it absolutely fascinating

My take after reading all the replies is that I will continue to Hunt for the Elusive Pig and try to put Meat in the freezer and on my table at home. I will continue to ask for blessings before we eat what I believe God has provided for Us.

THANK YOU ALL for chiming in!  This has been a fantastic read for me, and I will be sure to have my wife read it as well.

While there will always be disagreement on THIS matter, it is pleasing to know there are so many folks on here that know Who the Father is.

God Bless you all!


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## Lowjack (Jan 3, 2011)

Enjoy your BBQ


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## mtnwoman (Jan 3, 2011)

In the story of Peter, I believe it was a twofold message. God using pork as an example has some significance or it wouldn't have been mentioned or even used as an example. If God didn't deem pork clean then why would He use it as an example? If it was still unclean wouldn't Peter have thought.."huh?" Did Peter eat the pork?
And yes I know the vision was also regarding the unclean gentiles and for Peter to sup with them no matter what they served.

I don't think pork is all that good for you. Too much of anything isn't good. I eat pork and have no conviction not to, well except that I'm porky enough....LOL. I eat pork rarely and when I do I buy the tenderloin part which seems to have less fat. And I will eat ham and bbq a few times a year.

I've just now gotten to where I'll eat fish, like salmon. But after hammy's photo, I don't think I can ever eat another fish...gagomatic.  My first husband grossed me out of cleaning fish guts out about 40 yrs ago instream, and here it comes again to haunt me. 

It's sort of like that part of the Bible that says burn your house down if it has mold, and we are just now realizing how bad mold is for us. But we have bleach now if we can catch the mold in time, so we know probably we won't have to burn our house down because we have mold somewhere (that's gross, too)

Love,
Ramblin' Rose


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## Randy (Jan 3, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> God Gave those Laws exclusively to Israel"If one wants to practice Kosher eating as part of God's law then one should convert totally and accept all 613 Commandments not just those that we like, IMHO.
> Now I Grew Up in A Kosher home and don't like pork, the only time I ate pork was in a BBQ at a Coon hunt In West Palm Beach Fla, I was sick for a week, don't know if it was my conscience or it was just too heavy for my stomach.



Great.  Now we no longer have to worry about adultry, murder, stealing..etc.  Just which of the LAWS did Jesus' death get rid of?  All but 10?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 3, 2011)

Randy said:


> Great.  Now we no longer have to worry about adultry, murder, stealing..etc.  Just which of the LAWS did Jesus' death get rid of?  All but 10?




Did He get rid of the law about killing an innocent lamb on the day of atonement? Do you do that? We don't have to now, Jesus is the lamb God provided for Himself for our atonement. Jesus' existance on earth changed a lot of things.

Isn't adultry, murder and stealing included in that 10?

You try to live by the OT leviticus laws and you are taking on a heavy yoke......Jesus said His yoke is light. He fulfilled the law because we couldn't, obviously or He wouldn't have had to die.

If you intend on keeping the not eating pork law, there's a bunch of other stuff mentioned that you need to do or not do also. You can't take part and leave the rest. 

Don't forget to take your grain to the storehouse, 
and your wife has to bring a pigeon, turtles or lamb to a priest so she is cleansed after having each child and after each period, and by the way, you have to put her in the doghouse each month when she is, well ya know, 'unclean'. You can't eat rabbits, so don't be shootin' 'em, either.

Most everything in Lev. we know not to do from common sense or by our upbringing. Like not to lie with animals or your brother or sister, not to eat fat nor drink blood, etc.

And if you are convicted not to eat pork, don't eat it. That in itself is reason enough. That's what the Holy Spirit is for, to convict us.

..


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## Randy (Jan 3, 2011)

My question was do those 10 still apply.  Are they all gone or did we keep 10 of them around?  I Jesus died so that we no longer had to obey any of them why are we required to obey 10 of them.

But my real point is Yes Jesus did die for our sins because we were not able to abide by these Laws that God set.  I am of the belief that while we are no longer judged under the Law (thank you Jesus) they are still sins in God's eye just as they were then (or do you think God changed his mind).  As such we still shoudl not do them.  Is that possible?  No that is why God sent His Son.  But that does not mean we are to forget what is a sin in God's eyes.  And in fact some of these Laws were not just because God did not approve of them.  In fact, when we are talking about things you should not eat, those Laws were givn becasue God knew it was not good for you.  It wasn't then and even now Doctors have proven what God knew.  Some of this stuff we eat is not good for us.  I still eat pork occassionally even though I kow it is bad for me.  We do stuff like that.


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## Lowjack (Jan 3, 2011)

Randy said:


> Great.  Now we no longer have to worry about adultry, murder, stealing..etc.  Just which of the LAWS did Jesus' death get rid of?  All but 10?



How Many Of Those did your ancestors recieved ?
On mount Sinai ?
Deuteronomy 5

1 Moses summoned all Israel and said: 
 Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: 

 6 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery
Whom Did Moses said the Law was for ?

The LAw Is A covenant between God and Israel, God has not made a covenant with any gentile nation.


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## pnome (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm just now seeing this one.  Tell ya what, I'll take any pigs you shoot @ Pine Log from now on.   You know... so your wife doesn't get mad.


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## Randy (Jan 3, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> How Many Of Those did your ancestors recieved ?
> On mount Sinai ?
> Deuteronomy 5
> 
> ...


Well I will have to be honest and say that I have only tracked my ancestors back to  about 1600's when we came here from Wincontan(sp?) England.  I had rather assume that my ancestors were there.  But it would be nice to know that there are no sins given to my family.  By the way according to Paul (who was a Jew) we were all grafted in.


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## Lowjack (Jan 3, 2011)

Randy said:


> Well I will have to be honest and say that I have only tracked my ancestors back to  about 1600's when we came here from Wincontan(sp?) England.  I had rather assume that my ancestors were there.  But it would be nice to know that there are no sins given to my family.  By the way according to Paul (who was a Jew) we were all grafted in.



Well if you were Grafted in ? Into what were you grafted ?
I would also ask Paul That Question, for we have to assume that if you were grafted into the tree which is Israel and the roots of Israel is the law (Law)then the Branches are under the law or otherwise they would dry out and die ?


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## Randy (Jan 3, 2011)

I can't ask Paul anything since he is dead.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 4, 2011)

Randy said:


> My question was do those 10 still apply.  Are they all gone or did we keep 10 of them around?  I Jesus died so that we no longer had to obey any of them why are we required to obey 10 of them.
> 
> But my real point is Yes Jesus did die for our sins because we were not able to abide by these Laws that God set.  I am of the belief that while we are no longer judged under the Law (thank you Jesus) they are still sins in God's eye just as they were then (or do you think God changed his mind).  As such we still shoudl not do them.  Is that possible?  No that is why God sent His Son.  But that does not mean we are to forget what is a sin in God's eyes.  And in fact some of these Laws were not just because God did not approve of them.  In fact, when we are talking about things you should not eat, those Laws were givn becasue God knew it was not good for you.  It wasn't then and even now Doctors have proven what God knew.  Some of this stuff we eat is not good for us.  I still eat pork occassionally even though I kow it is bad for me.  We do stuff like that.



Randy, I think I understand your question a little better, and I understand how confusing it can be. I guess none of us really have answers to everything in the Bible, therefore we need to still study.

I read a lot of leviticus today, and many of the laws are talking about uncleanliness, ie women, mold, etc etc. I guess the way I looked at it after I read it was that these are the things about cleanliness that we teach our children. If you lay chicken or pork raw on the counter don't make a sandwich where the meat lay raw...and that's in there basically, believe it or not. If you consider what most of those laws say are things that we have put in everyday practice here and now.

We are now under conviction  of the Holy Spirit and I urge you if you think eating pork is a sin, don't eat it. The Spirit knows you and your body better than any of us.

The 10 commandments, as you know are basically every day laws in our country nowadays, too. So we as a nation have made those apply to our lives today, whether Christian or not.

Christians should take it a little deeper though, we know that. And I believe that the HS will guide us when and where we need guidance.

I appreciate your last post as I understand a little more where you're coming from and I totally agree that some things can be confusing. Study my brother, we will get there.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 4, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Does this seem like a completely arbitrary and ridiculous basis for judging which animals should be eaten to anyone else besides me?



Only if you think this is a ridiculous reason for not eating trout...from where I'm sittin'

You take a live worm(no thanks) push it on hook, (gag), throw the worm in water and bring out a big trout. Put the trout in a bucket and hope it dies before you have to gut it and if'n it's still wigglin, you gut it anyway (gross and disturbing to me). Then you slice it belly up from bottom to top and hold it in the stream under the water while you take your thumbnail and rake upward to rake it's guts out.........beyond gross to me. I'm sure some of you think differently....LOL


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## bfriendly (Jan 4, 2011)

pnome said:


> I'm just now seeing this one.  Tell ya what, I'll take any pigs you shoot @ Pine Log from now on.   You know... so your wife doesn't get mad.



Sorry Brother, she will eat it too.......................I just have to keep her from seeing it hanging from the tree outside

I am thinking of doing a full field dressing next time anyway...........if there ever is a next time

I think them Pigs got me figured out


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## rjcruiser (Jan 4, 2011)

pnome said:


> I'm just now seeing this one.  Tell ya what, I'll take any pigs you shoot @ Pine Log from now on.   You know... so your wife doesn't get mad.




Me too.  Hilarious.  

I have to say, I'm actually impressed with Joel Osteen.  He's actually taking a stand on something....something I disagree with, but an actual stand.

I don't understand how a man can say we can't eat pork and must follow the dietary laws of the OT when he says that all paths lead to Heaven as well.  Oh well.....just another example of this man being another example of what Jude was writing about in his lone chapter.


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2011)

Randy said:


> Joel is right.  God gives us a list of things not to eat in the Old Testament.  Like all the other Laws we are no longer judged by them since we are given Gods Rightousness thrugh Jesus but the Law is still the Law and only by the laws do we know what sin is.  This requirement is not really a Law though.
> 
> When I had my heart attack last year, I read a lot of books on what to eat and what not to eat for your health.  What I found amazing is all the things we should not eat that was listed in all those books for medical reasons are the same things God lists in the Bible!  I believe God tells us not to eat these things not because He was trying ot be mean or just setting some rules for us to follow but these things are truly not healthy for your body.  God also gave us a list of things that are good for us like seeds and fruit.  Amazingly all these books also said these are good for us.  Doctors are now telling us what God told us a long time ago.  Amazing.



I remember a little booklet my grandaddy had [probably got from his heart doctor] that listed the worst foods cholesterol-wise.Oysters was at the top of the list! Shellfish,dontcha know.


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