# Bad mamma jamma bow comparison....Updated!



## Kris87 (Aug 8, 2015)

Will have to wait until I'm back at my computer, but here are the two bad son of a guns going head to head....uh oh! 

Just a sneak pic.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 8, 2015)

I like the one on the right more


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## Kris87 (Aug 8, 2015)

Its a bad boy no doubt.


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## BowanaLee (Aug 8, 2015)

Just for the record. Who owns the bow on the right ?


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## DYI hunting (Aug 8, 2015)

Nice but looks awful expensive!


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## ChristopherA.King (Aug 8, 2015)

Both are fine looking bows. Can't wait to see the results


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## J-Rod (Aug 8, 2015)

Hold on... Wait... Say it ain't so Kris!


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## Ole3Toe (Aug 8, 2015)

Can't wait to see results. Interesting!!


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## hoyt44 (Aug 8, 2015)

whats the ata on the right one ??  looks like a toy


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## Scoutman (Aug 8, 2015)

I vote for one on the left but I know a guy who knows a guy lol! Nock on!


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## Beagler282 (Aug 8, 2015)

The one on the right is sweet.


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## gcs (Aug 8, 2015)

I pick the Carbon, they are sweet shooting bows.


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## Kris87 (Aug 9, 2015)

Little more testing and shooting tonight.  Some very nice bows.  Some very nice.....results.


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## BlackEagle (Aug 9, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> Little more testing and shooting tonight.  Some very nice bows.  Some very nice.....results.



That bow on the right looks cool! 



I think I'll get my girlfriend one.


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## tc2015 (Aug 9, 2015)

The obsession is unbelievable


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## bowhunterdavid (Aug 10, 2015)

You know which one I pick, Nock On.


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## Randypoo6292 (Aug 10, 2015)

Throw an elite in there!


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## Kris87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Randypoo6292 said:


> Throw an elite in there!



Why?  To put in a speed test with a Bear Whitetail II?


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## Kris87 (Aug 10, 2015)

So, I'm finally back at the keyboard.  Been shooting the competitor's bow(henceforth will be known as the OB  ), which is a Delta 6, for a few days.  I told Dennis to send me a bow a few weeks ago, but he's too old and forgot to send me one.    The Hoyt king in my stable for this year is the '15 Carbon Spyder Turbo Zt, which will go by CST, since its too long to type out. 

Anyway, I thought it would be fun to do a comparison of two top heavyweights.  The pros and cons of each.  I promise I'll be unbiased, but you have to take that as you wish. 

Ok, so the Hoyt is obviously mine, and the OB is my cousin's, Jawja7.  He asked me to look over it, tune, and test it, and I thought it would be nice to do a head to head.  I had a good time last year with a Phoenix, so this was a welcome test for me.  I love shooting bows...simply put.  

First I put each bow on the scales, and the draw board.  I wanted to check peak weight, hold weight, and the dreaded cam lean.  The OB pulled 69#  on my scale with a hold weight of 12.5#.  That's around 82% letoff.  The CST pulled 65# with a hold weight of around 14.5#, which is around 77% letoff.  Letoff comes with the sacrifice of speed, so if you have a bow with little letoff, it should be fast.  That said, the Turbo cam from Hoyt this year is smoking.  Again, the Perfx cam from OB delivering 82-85% letoff with 345fps speeds is unreal.  I'll concede that.  

Ok, so I checked cam lean.  Here's what each bow looked like at brace....

OB




Hoyt




As you can see, neither of these bows have much lean at brace.  The OB had a little less, the cam was very straight.  Of course, I'm a big fan of having yokes to manipulate the cam, limbs, string path, so I was curious how this would play out.  The Hoyt had just a tad more, not much though.  During the draw cycle, a right handed cam moves this way during the cycle, it goes from this \ to this| hopefully.  Here's where the Hoyt shined with the new zero effect roller guard.  It had zero lean at full draw. 





I didn't take a picture of the OB here, but it did have just a slight amount of cam lean at full draw, but only a tad.  Nothing I'd be concerned about like some I'd seen.  So good job to OB for getting the limb deflections right. 

Next, I thought I'd shoot them through paper.  I knew how my bow shot, but I thought it would be fun to test someone else's bow not tuned for my grip to see what it did...here's the paper. 





As you can see, both shot very well.  The Hoyt I knew would shoot well, but the OB surprised me since I was unsure of how to grip it.  It shot almost perfect bullet holes, very, very slightly left, which I'd probably not even bother with.  This is a testament to the grip.  It was very repeatable.  I will say, the Hoyt grip is the best in the business though.  I make no bones about how good it actually is.  It is that much head and shoulders above everything else.  Ok I'm done there.  

Fit and finish.  Easy, the OB wins.  This Prairie camo is crazy good.  As much as I liked my Harvest Brown riser, it looks stupid next to the Delta 6.  I'm sorry, I lost on this one.

Hold on target....whoa, a big one.  I really focused on this one.  It could be slightly unfair because as you could see, I shoot somewhat of a target setup on my hunting bow.  However, the Delta 6 surprised me for a 29" ATA bow.  It held so, so steady.  I'm not normally a fan of limb stop bows because of their rigidity, but this bow flat held solid.  It didn't have much float, and it seemed to hold very neutral.  I give it a big thumbs up.  On to the CST.  Its much like a tournament bow IMO.  It holds so well on target that it is almost like cheating.  I love hybrid cams because no matter what kind of shot you put on them, the arrow seems to always land where you want.  In fairness, I couldn't test the OB at long range to test the vertical forgiveness. That's something I'd like to do for myself. 

Both of these bows are quiet.  I would say the Delta 6 is quieter than all the Hoyt bows I've owned, except for this one.  This CST is the quietest bow I've owned.  The Delta 6 sounds like every other two track bow, its very quiet, kind of metallic, not a lot there.  This CST is almost whisper quiet.  I give the nod to Hoyt here.  

Speed.  I have only tested my bow and arrow specs, and it IBO's at 348.  I'm happy with that.  According to the owner of the Delta, it should IBO around 346 at the specs we've set it at.  So speed aside, they're dang near even.  Pretty miraculous when you consider one is 33" and the other is 29" ATA.  Don't worry about 1-3fps, both are plenty fast. 

Draw cycle....I spent a lot of time here.  The OB draw very smooth as to be expected.  It feels like you are drawing 69# the whole way, but then it drops to 12# easily.  Nothing harsh, nothing unexpected.  It doesn't really dump in the valley, it just kind of locks.  The Hoyt Turbo cam is probably my favorite cam to date from Hoyt.  Its buttery smooth all the way back, there is no hump or dump and it just kind of stops into the draw stop pegs.  It doesn't lock like a two track, so you can't get lazy.  I've said here, my bow has the #3 cam, which is a dream.  I've shot the #2 cam, and I hated it.  I won't make any excuses for that cam.  If this were a comparison against the #2 cam, it would be a CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored compared to the OB.  You better decide for yourself here.  

Ok, this has been a long winded much to say about nothing.  I wanted to do this because I wanted to see how good the competitor was this year.  Well, he is really good.  There are a lot of things I liked about the Delta 6, but more things I liked about my CST.  I still like cable stops over limb stops in terms of accuracy.  Its just a more pliable feel, not nearly as rigid to me.  I just shoot better, although it doesn't feel as good.  I liked the fact the OB shot so well for such a short ATA bow.  It holds crazy good, and will make for a super hunting bow.  My CST only weighed 6 oz heavier than the Delta 6 with a lot of stabilizer weight, and the Delta 6 had hardly any weight.  That's a definite advantage for a carbon bow.  You can utilize weight and not have a tank for a rig.  Of course, it comes with a price tag.

All in all, I like both bows. I'm not going to say one is better than the other.  It depends on what you want and what you like.  I liked both.  I'd probably kill just as many animals with one as I would with the other.  That's a fact. 

If anyone has specific questions, then ask.  I took lots more pictures, and did lots more testing, but probably left them out...had a cocktail or two while I was typing.


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## Kris87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Draw board pics.  If you are shooting a short ATA bow with a sharp string angle, keep in mind your peep will be higher in the string, and you may require a larger peep to line up your housing.  I did not find this to be an issue at all though.


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## Kris87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Couple more things to note.  I noticed this OB didn't tune nock level, it was nock high.  Kind of odd for a dual cam bow.  Not a big deal, I'd rather one tune nock high.  There's also not a lot of clearance from the cable guard.  Blazers cleared fine, buy you should def keep centershot at 13/16" to clear the guard.  

On the Hoyt, if you don't shoot it with limbs maxed, expect a big jump down in speed from IBO/ATA ratings.  Its very finicky on max weight.   Also, as I mentioned, the #3 cam is a lot slower than the #2 cam.  Around 8-10fps difference almost.  I wouldn't shoot this bow below 28.5" DL.  Opt for the CS34 or Nitrum 34 instead.  Its much better.


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## bowhunterdavid (Aug 11, 2015)

Good job Kris, I enjoyed the review, OB bows seems to be getting more and more popular these days, and Dennis is doing a great job, and its a Georgia based company to boot, my hoyt CTS is one of the best shooting bows I ever owned and im like you I hate the #2 cam but the #3 cam shoots great. Who knows I might have a OB in my stable one day. OB needs more dealers in north Georgia, like timber ghost, the outdoor depo, the fox hole, and pops outdoors,so guys can shoot them for there selves.


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## pasinthrough (Aug 11, 2015)

I think the nock high comes a good bit from that QAD rest.  I find the limb driven options run dead level through the top of the berger holes will give great results through paper.  fwiw


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## gcs (Aug 11, 2015)

Great review Kris. 
 I agree with you on the turbo no.2 cam vs no.3 cam. I found the no.2 turbo shot 8fps faster than the no.3 turbo but the no.3 is a lot smoother. I went with the no.3 turbo. 
 I know a lot of people prefer a short ata bow for hunting but I find I like a longer ata bow. The string angle on the short bows is just to steep for me.


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## Brewskis (Aug 11, 2015)

As long as they don't change it, the grip will always be one of the main reasons I keep shooting Hoyts. It really is that good.

Your comments about finish intrigued me. I've noticed that the finish on my CS34 seems much more delicate than the finish on both of the Faktor 34s I've had (both black and camo). The finish on those just seems bullet-proof. Perhaps, the difference is how it bonds to carbon vs. aluminum?

What was it about the OB's finish that struck you as being so much better than the Hoyt, and do you think it has anything to do with the riser materials being different?


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## Kris87 (Aug 11, 2015)

pasinthrough said:


> I think the nock high comes a good bit from that QAD rest.  I find the limb driven options run dead level through the top of the berger holes will give great results through paper.  fwiw



Interesting.  I only shoot limbdrivers on my bows, as I'm not a fan of anything attached to any of the bow's cables.  That's just me though.


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## Kris87 (Aug 11, 2015)

Brewskis said:


> What was it about the OB's finish that struck you as being so much better than the Hoyt, and do you think it has anything to do with the riser materials being different?



The carbons have always had a hard time keeping the finish on them, mainly the camo.  My black Matrix and this Harvest Brown riser do not have any issues.  All of the OB bows I've had in hand have had really good finishes.  I don't know much about what they do, I'm sure Derik could chime in.


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## pasinthrough (Aug 11, 2015)

OB uses Kolorfusion.  IMO, much more durable than straight powdercoat or any hydro dip out there.  There are still small places that are hard to coat with Kolorfusion in the deep machining holes, quiver brackets etc, but they are not bad at all.  I've seen too many hydro jobs pull and distort the patterns.  The Kolorfusion process is an oven applied process and it is as close as you can get to actually having the pattern printed on the material.  

No matter what pattern, they all look real good on the bow.  People comment all the time how well the bows look and how deep the patterns look when they are holding them.  

Find a bow and pattern you like and go kill with it.  I can tell you the deer don't care one bit if you have red cams or a snow camo bow.  

Good comparison Kris.  I wish you could have had a Fusion 6 so the ATA would have been closer on the two.  The Delta at over 28" DL, is a tough draw.  I find the draw on the Fusion 6 to be more consistent throughout the draw length range than the Delta.  After all, the Delta was made to go down to 25.5" and it does a great job of getting speed in the hands of the shorter draw archers out there.


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## pasinthrough (Aug 11, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> Interesting.  I only shoot limbdrivers on my bows, as I'm not a fan of anything attached to any of the bow's cables.  That's just me though.



Give a Trophy Taker Smackdown Pro a try.  Bottom limb attach so it won't bother your sight or quiver bracket and they are super easy to setup.  Here is the first two shots from my Fusion 7 after a string and cable swap.


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## Kris87 (Aug 11, 2015)

Someone at Obsession was supposed to send me a bow to test, but they have a terrible memory.  Probably just old age.  

This Delta 6 was a 28.5 DL.  It wasn't overly stiff by any means.  Both bows made peak weight about the same time, but the Delta seemed to carry it just a little longer.  I will say, every OB I've ever put in the draw board has hit the DL dead nutz.  That's rare on most bows these days.  Almost all Hoyts I work on with factory strings are at least 1/4" long.  Mathews...all over the place.


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## Kris87 (Aug 11, 2015)

pasinthrough said:


> Give a Trophy Taker Smackdown Pro a try.  Bottom limb attach so it won't bother your sight or quiver bracket and they are super easy to setup.  Here is the first two shots from my Fusion 7 after a string and cable swap.



The Smackdown doesn't get along real well with hybrid cam or single cam bows IMO.  The launcher is so stiff, it gives very bad tail high flight.  The only remedy I found is to make it drop super fast.  The last one I had to tune, I actually tied in between the air shox, and it shot OK.  The Pro-V just tunes much better on a hybrid cam bow.  

I know Dan Evans was aware of the issue, and I'm 99% they actually changed the material of the launcher this year to make it more flexible.  

Of course, this would be a non issue on bows with truer nock level travel like Obsessions and Elites.


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## jawja7 (Aug 11, 2015)

BlackEagle said:


> That bow on the right looks cool!
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll get my girlfriend one.



She's use to small things from you so it would be perfect for her.


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## Kris87 (Aug 11, 2015)

Dang!


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## APPierce0628 (Aug 11, 2015)

jawja7 said:


> She's use to small things from you so it would be perfect for her.



Savage. Straight savage.


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## hold em hook (Aug 11, 2015)




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## BlackEagle (Aug 11, 2015)

jawja7 said:


> She's use to small things from you so it would be perfect for her.


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## Ihunt (Aug 12, 2015)

Thanks for your review.

I own a Delta 6 and shoot it as well as anything I have ever shot. For me, 28.5" draw, it did have a rougher draw cycle than I would have liked. I backed the weight down to the upper 50's and it's much better. Getting old I guess. The beauty of speed bows is the ability to shoot lower draw weights and still fling a heavy arrow at a nice clip.


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## Brian from GA (Aug 12, 2015)

Just to give an amen on some of this info.... Being an Obsession dealer and tuning quite a few Hoyts including the Carbon Spyder and Nitrum I agree that Hoyt's really like a  QAD type, cable driven rest and Obsessions (or most two track two cam bows) like a limb driven rest. We sell a lot of Smackdown Pros but I have also tried other limb driven rests on Obsessions and they tune so much quicker. We have a Limbdriver on a Knightmare GT at the shop that was a one shot bullet hole. 

As far as grip goes, I do like Hoyts grip but the Bear line including the Arena to me is really nice.


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## Kris87 (Aug 12, 2015)

Hoyts tune best with Limbdriver Pro-V's over any other rest I set up on them.  A QAD isn't hard, but its a real pain compared to the Limbdriver.  Plus I don't like attaching anything to the cable just due to the fact its another pain when you have to make cam sync adjustments.


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## Ihunt (Aug 13, 2015)

I weighed my arrows and shot through a chrono yesterday.
Delta 6,28.5" draw, pulling 57lbs. It shot my 442 grain arrow at 273fps. I think that's pretty good with lower weight and a mid weight arrow.


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## hmaadd (Aug 13, 2015)

I hunt what # limbs do you have on your delta 6?


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## Ihunt (Aug 13, 2015)

hmaadd said:


> I hunt what # limbs do you have on your delta 6?



They are 65lb limbs I have backed down. Tried to get some replacement limbs but the wait was too long. I would not hesitate to hunt with a 50lb Delta 6. It would still fling them.


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## BowChilling (Aug 13, 2015)

Just for speed comparison I shot my Hoyt Carbon Element with RKT cam against my Obsession Fusion 7.

Shooting a 415 grain arrow the Hoyt shot 284 fps at 70 lbs and the Obsession shot 290 at 65 lbs. Both of these at 29" draw. 

I'm pretty impressed with what Obsession is putting out there!


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## blazer21 (Aug 13, 2015)

BowChilling said:


> Just for speed comparison I shot my Hoyt Carbon Element with RKT cam against my Obsession Fusion 7.
> 
> Shooting a 415 grain arrow the Hoyt shot 284 fps at 70 lbs and the Obsession shot 290 at 65 lbs. Both of these at 29" draw.
> 
> I'm pretty impressed with what Obsession is putting out there!



WOW! That is impressive!


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## Kris87 (Aug 13, 2015)

BowChilling said:


> Just for speed comparison I shot my Hoyt Carbon Element with RKT cam against my Obsession Fusion 7.
> 
> Shooting a 415 grain arrow the Hoyt shot 284 fps at 70 lbs and the Obsession shot 290 at 65 lbs. Both of these at 29" draw.
> 
> I'm pretty impressed with what Obsession is putting out there!



Something has to be wrong with your Element.  That's 16 fps difference in IBO speed.  My Element IBO'd at 337.  The Fusion around 340-345.  Billy, your Kool-aid was spiked.  Who did it?


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## BowChilling (Aug 13, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> Something has to be wrong with your Element.  That's 16 fps difference in IBO speed.  My Element IBO'd at 337.  The Fusion around 340-345.  Billy, your Kool-aid was spiked.  Who did it?



Do I need to video it??


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## Kris87 (Aug 13, 2015)

BowChilling said:


> Do I need to video it??



No, your word is no good around here.


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## BowChilling (Aug 14, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> No, your word is no good around here.



 In all fairness my bow scale is broken. I know the Hoyt was on 70 last year and the OB is a 65# maxed so it may be 67-68...


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## rjcruiser (Aug 14, 2015)

BowChilling said:


> Just for speed comparison I shot my Hoyt Carbon Element with RKT cam against my Obsession Fusion 7.
> 
> Shooting a 415 grain arrow the Hoyt shot 284 fps at 70 lbs and the Obsession shot 290 at 65 lbs. Both of these at 29" draw.
> 
> I'm pretty impressed with what Obsession is putting out there!



Wait...what?!?!?  You're on the Obsession bandwagon too?  

I never thought I'd hear of the day where you took anything but a Hoyt to the stand.



On a side note, the reviews and specs of what Obsession is doing does seem to be pretty impressive.


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## Kris87 (Aug 14, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> On a side note, the reviews and specs of what Obsession is doing does seem to be pretty impressive.




They are very nice, no doubt.  I really haven't thought seriously about leaving Hoyt myself, because I just shoot them sooooo good.  I've always said I don't pick bows on how well they feel, at full draw, or during the draw cycle.  I pick them on how I shoot them.  And that can be an expensive, and time consuming way to go about it since its really impossible to spend time with groupings in a shop.  

Just last night I was shooting at 60 and 70 yards with both my Carbon Turbo and my Carbon 34.  I was texting pics of my groups to BlackEagle.  I'm no pro, but I just love a Hoyt because even if my shot doesn't feel the best, it just seems to go where its supposed to.  They just flat shoot for me.


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## BowChilling (Aug 14, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> Wait...what?!?!?  You're on the Obsession bandwagon too?
> 
> I never thought I'd hear of the day where you took anything but a Hoyt to the stand.
> 
> ...



I won a lot of tournaments with a Hoyt and I've killed a lot of deer with a Hoyt. I'm not so much in to tournaments anymore but anybody that knows me knows I live for hunting season. So you better believe I would not start off the season with anything I didn't have confidence in and that I was driving tacks with!


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## bowhunterdavid (Aug 14, 2015)

This topic has been very interesting,


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## Kris87 (Aug 14, 2015)

I'd bet an Obsession Addiction vs. my Carbon Spyder 34 would be a nice shootout.  35" vs. 34" of smooth speed.  Right in my wheelhouse.  Anybody wanna donate me an Addiction for 2 weeks?


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## rjcruiser (Aug 14, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> I pick them on how I shoot them.  And that can be an expensive, and time consuming way to go about it since its really impossible to spend time with groupings in a shop.



That is how I wish I could pick a bow as well.



BowChilling said:


> I won a lot of tournaments with a Hoyt and I've killed a lot of deer with a Hoyt. I'm not so much in to tournaments anymore but anybody that knows me knows I live for hunting season. So you better believe I would not start off the season with anything I didn't have confidence in and that I was driving tacks with!



I'm sure we'll all see another Newton County biggun in a picture with you and whatever bow you have...just   ya about the bandwagon thing.  I remembered you mentioned you had won a bunch of stuff with Hoyt back in the day.


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