# Is giving to a Church via Credit Card/Direct Debit wrong?



## rjcruiser (Nov 10, 2010)

This kinda came up in the Ed Young thread and while I think his method and pushiness is extremely wrong, what say you about filling out a giving card and having the church bill your credit card or approving a church to direct debit your bank account for your giving?

In the age of technology and e-payments, is it wrong?  Do you have to write a check or give cash for it to be right?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 10, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> This kinda came up in the Ed Young thread and while I think his method and pushiness is extremely wrong, what say you about filling out a giving card and having the church bill your credit card or approving a church to direct debit your bank account for your giving?
> 
> In the age of technology and e-payments, is it wrong?  Do you have to write a check or give cash for it to be right?



depends some of these big mega churches are using the money for themselves and i think thats wrong. you dont see very many that will go help anyone who needs it or is starving before they will build on to the church and add flatscreen tv's and a rock band.


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## TTom (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm not a fan of using direct debit from my account for ANYBODY's payment. Not because it is wrong but because it gives automatic access and has the potential to cause other issues.

1. An error in the data entry might draw more than the amount authorized by mistake ( or heaven forbid some other less honest mistake)

2. dates of automatic withdraws don't always fall perfectly in the budget/ paycheck cycles and they can cause overdraws if you are not careful.

Neither of these cause it to be "wrong" they simply are items to consider.

If your bank has automatic payment/ check writing I much prefer that option to the auto debit, because then any errors made are on YOU.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the method of giving is unimportant.
Whatever works for you and your congregation.


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## Big7 (Nov 10, 2010)

No.


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## Jeffriesw (Nov 10, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I think the method of giving is unimportant.
> Whatever works for you and your congregation.



X's 2 Ronnie T.



Personally, I do not let anyone direct draft out of my bank account for any reason. And I do not use credit cards for anything except online purchases.
I just write a check every week for my Tithe's and Offerings and drop it in the plate.


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## ronpasley (Nov 10, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I think the method of giving is unimportant.
> Whatever works for you and your congregation.



I agree


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## Ronnie T (Nov 10, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> X's 2 Ronnie T.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Meeeeeeeeeeee tooooooo!


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## Huntinfool (Nov 11, 2010)

I don't think it's wrong.  But I would be VERY cautious as a leader of a church that considers allowing people to give via credit card.  

Of course, yes, there can be some benefits to those who are responsible with money to using a credit card (miles, points, etc).

But there are also many many many people who are so irresponsible with money that they would put a tithe on a credit card and then let it sit, gain interest charges and build over time because they don't have the money to pay it.  Trust me....they'd do it.

Credit cards are debt if you don't pay them off.  The borrower is slave to the lender and all that jazz.

I would be very cautious as a leader to open the door to something like that which could potentially be to the detriment of some of the congregation.  

Debit cards?  No problem.  Direct debit?  I don't see an issue.  I suppose my point is that either you have been disciplined and set the money aside or you haven't.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 11, 2010)

Question is... do you believe its the will of god to go buy flat screen tv's new sound boards and all that kind of stuff instead of helping the needy???


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## rjcruiser (Nov 11, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> Question is... do you believe its the will of god to go buy flat screen tv's new sound boards and all that kind of stuff instead of helping the needy???



Last year, I was the needy, so I had no problem buying that 50" plasma that sits on the wall in the living room.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 11, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> Question is... do you believe its the will of god to go buy flat screen tv's new sound boards and all that kind of stuff instead of helping the needy???



What kind of car do you drive?


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## rjcruiser (Nov 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> What kind of car do you drive?



http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=576312

2005 Dodge Ram that needs a lift.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 11, 2010)

Ruh Roh Raggy.....somebody just got busted!  


How 'bout, sell that nice truck (and the lift if you've already bought it....$2000!  Seriously?) and I've got a very nice 1996 Accord with 200K miles and three hubcaps that I'll sell you for a grand.

You can give the left over to the needy and thank me for allowing you to minister so well (and for keeping you from being a hypocrite).


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## Crubear (Nov 11, 2010)

I think a lot of you should quit worrying about what other people do or what Bible they read (referencing another thread) and do what you're commanded.

Take care of the needy, the widow, and the orphan
Love your neighbor
Love God with all your might
Do the good works he has prepared for "YOU"
and let God take care of the rest


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## Huntinfool (Nov 11, 2010)

Calm down...we're just kidding.


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## apoint (Nov 11, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Meeeeeeeeeeee tooooooo!



Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii  threeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## vanguard1 (Nov 11, 2010)

i drive a 1979 plymouth van, but if i SOW SEED into the tv ministry i can drive a benz. wheres my check book?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 11, 2010)

Crubear said:


> I think a lot of you should quit worrying about what other people do or what Bible they read (referencing another thread) and do what you're commanded.
> 
> Take care of the needy, the widow, and the orphan
> Love your neighbor
> ...


 
Here Here!!


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Ruh Roh Raggy.....somebody just got busted!
> 
> 
> How 'bout, sell that nice truck (and the lift if you've already bought it....$2000!  Seriously?) and I've got a very nice 1996 Accord with 200K miles and three hubcaps that I'll sell you for a grand.
> ...






you can sell that gun and them camo clothes and the glasses and do the same.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 11, 2010)

plus i meant what is YOUR CHURCH doing with the money??? Is it one of the churches who uses all the money on themselves with the bigscreen tv and $1,000 guitars and drums and keyboards and new food courts and basket ball courts and baseball fields?


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## Randy (Nov 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> What kind of car do you drive?


That is irrelavant.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Ruh Roh Raggy.....somebody just got busted!
> 
> 
> How 'bout, sell that nice truck (and the lift if you've already bought it....$2000!  Seriously?) and I've got a very nice 1996 Accord with 200K miles and three hubcaps that I'll sell you for a grand.
> ...



plus where i live you have to either have a lift or some bigger tires or all terrains just to get down my driveway because all it is is a mile long of mud because out here in the country we aint got enough money to pay 30k to pour concrete. =]


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## Randy (Nov 11, 2010)

The way some of these chuches are run this day and time and by the pepole who are running them....NO I would never give them access to my credit account by direct withdrawl.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 11, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> plus i meant what is YOUR CHURCH doing with the money??? Is it one of the churches who uses all the money on themselves with the bigscreen tv and $1,000 guitars and drums and keyboards and new food courts and basket ball courts and baseball fields?



well...lets see, my current church doesn't have any "overhead" other than the small rent we pay for use of a basement and the music license fee that allows us to print off handouts without infringing on copyrights. Nope...we don't pay our preachers...musicians or anybody else.  I believe we've used more than 75% of the offerings in supporting missions and those in need.

I do know that HF doesn't mind the $1,000 drums at his church. 

btw...what does your church do with the money?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 11, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> well...lets see, my current church doesn't have any "overhead" other than the small rent we pay for use of a basement and the music license fee that allows us to print off handouts without infringing on copyrights. Nope...we don't pay our preachers...musicians or anybody else.  I believe we've used more than 75% of the offerings in supporting missions and those in need.
> 
> I do know that HF doesn't mind the $1,000 drums at his church.
> 
> btw...what does your church do with the money?




not saying that yours did that i just know plenty of churches saying they are in the will of god and thats all they do and my church is so small that we barley have enough to just pay the light bill and the heat bill in the church.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 11, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> not saying that yours did that i just know plenty of churches saying they are in the will of god and thats all they do and my church is so small that we barley have enough to just pay the light bill and the heat bill in the church.


 

Interesting.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 11, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> I don't think it's wrong.  But I would be VERY cautious as a leader of a church that considers allowing people to give via credit card.
> 
> Of course, yes, there can be some benefits to those who are responsible with money to using a credit card (miles, points, etc).
> 
> ...




I agree.  The credit card just doesn't seem like "giving".


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> so you are saying that's ALL they do huh? you really throw around a lot of blanket statements about details that you just assume.
> 
> so if a church has nice stuff, they must not give to the needy and help the poor? really thats what you are communicating in your posts. And because your church is small and can barely pay the light bill, its IN THE WILL of God.



no not saying it goes for all but i could name 4 just in carroll county. and our church is only small because my preacher tells them like it is and isnt tickling their ears.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> That is irrelavant.



It certainly is not.  It's entirely relevant when someone condemns others for how they spend their money....church or individual.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> I do know that HF doesn't mind the $1,000 drums at his church.



$6000 thank you very much.


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> It certainly is not.  It's entirely relevant when someone condemns others for how they spend their money....church or individual.


He earns his money.  He can spend it as he wishes.  The church is given money and it is given for the church to do the work of God not for shinny things.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> plus i meant what is YOUR CHURCH doing with the money??? Is it one of the churches who uses all the money on themselves with the bigscreen tv and $1,000 guitars and drums and keyboards and new food courts and basket ball courts and baseball fields?



Is it somehow more wasteful for a church to spend money on a TV than it is for you to spend it?


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> He earns his money.  He can spend it as he wishes.  The church is given money and it is given for the church to do the work of God not for shinny things.



According to the values he ascribes to....it is ALL God's money.  

He is to be a good steward of it just as the church leadership is to...a lift kit, rims and $2000 tires would certainly be questionable, no?  Especially in light of coming down on how someone else spends?


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> According to the values he ascribes to....it is ALL God's money.
> 
> He is to be a good steward of it just as the church leadership is to...a lift kit, rims and $2000 tires would certainly be questionable, no?


No.  He earns his money to spend as he wishes.  It is not God's money.  God does not need money.  God blesses us in many ways and money is just one.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Whatever you say buddy.....keep on believin' it.  So the church is required to do the work of God with the money they are given.  God gives us money as a blessing....and WE are not required to also do his work with it? 




Let's ask him whether it's his money or God's.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> According to the values he ascribes to....it is ALL God's money.
> 
> He is to be a good steward of it just as the church leadership is to...a lift kit, rims and $2000 tires would certainly be questionable, no?  Especially in light of coming down on how someone else spends?



actaully i paid 400 dollars for a new set of tires because i NEEDED them. i didnt buy rims or a lift i just asked how much it was. so dont be judging people for how they spend there money when you dont even know.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> so its the "WILL of God" like you say, for your church to stay small and not reach many people?
> 
> and if a preacher "tells" it like it is, it's going to stay small?
> 
> and since its "small" like you said, they won't give enough to keep the lights on? how much is the light bill? seems the obedience of even the small group would pay for it.



no my preacher will tell them if you arent right with god your dying and going to hejj, and tells them its a sin to do this and a sin to do that. Most churches wont talk about whats wrong because they want peoples money and they dont wanna make them mad, because idk if you knew this about reading from the NIV but GOD DOsent want you doing alot of things you do and my preacher will tell you what those are unlike most churches who are ear ticklers.


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> so its the "WILL of God" like you say, for your church to stay small and not reach many people?
> 
> and if a preacher "tells" it like it is, it's going to stay small?
> 
> and since its "small" like you said, they won't give enough to keep the lights on? how much is the light bill? seems the obedience of even the small group would pay for it.



It is the will of God to preach the gospel small or large.

God will provided for the Church if the Church is following God's teachings.  What you see a lot is a Church that prospers (becasue they tell people to give money thinking it brings God's blessings) not becasue they are doing God's work adn then that huge church fails and goes bankrupt.  It is the Church's job to do God's work and God will provide.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Whatever you say buddy.....keep on believin' it.  So the church is required to do the work of God with the money they are given.  God gives us money as a blessing....and WE are not required to also do his work with it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you do realize when you point that one finger at me if you look at your hand there is three pointing right back at you.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> actaully i paid 400 dollars for a new set of tires because i NEEDED them. i didnt buy rims or a lift i just asked how much it was. so dont be judging people for how they spend there money when you dont even know.



You were certainly considering it my man (and you just said you HAVE to have a lift where you live...so which is it?).  That's all I was saying.  I don't care how you spend your money.  You're missing the point.

You cannot hold credibility in criticism of others for how they spend their money, when you don't hold yourself to the same standard.

See passages on qualifications of elders and deacons.  Why do you suppose they are to be held to those standards in their private lives?


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Whatever you say buddy.....keep on believin' it.  So the church is required to do the work of God with the money they are given.  God gives us money as a blessing....and WE are not required to also do his work with it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We are also required to follow God's word.  It does not take money to do so.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> you do realize when you point that one finger at me if you look at your hand there is three pointing right back at you.



Rubber?  Glue?  Really?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> You were certainly considering it my man (and you just said you HAVE to have a lift where you live...so which is it?).  That's all I was saying.  I don't care how you spend your money.  You're missing the point.
> 
> You cannot hold credibility in criticism of others for how they spend their money, when you don't hold yourself to the same standard.
> 
> See passages on qualifications of elders and deacons.  Why do you suppose they are to be held to those standards in their private lives?




i was talking about the church spending the money YOU made it personal.So before criticizing me for something i didnt even bring up take a look at yourself.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> We are also required to follow God's word.  It does not take money to do so.



You're right.  But since we are blessed with it....what are we to do with it?

I suppose we just spend it however we like, right?


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> i was talking about the church spending the money YOU made it personal.So before criticizing me for something i didnt even bring up take a look at yourself.



Is there a difference in what the church does with the money it is given and what you do with the money you're given?  

Randy seems to think so.  I'm curious what your take on that is.


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> You're right.  But since we are blessed with it....what are we to do with it?
> 
> I suppose we just spend it however we like, right?


Yes.  Of course it should not be spent in sinful ways or you will lose it.


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Is there a difference in what the church does with the money it is given and what you do with the money you're given?
> 
> Randy seems to think so.  I'm curious what your take on that is.



One is given, one is earned.  Just so we are clear.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> One is given, one is earned.  Just so we are clear.



But...you said God blesses us with that money.  Which is it?

Could you not also see it as God blesses us with money and we bless him by giving it to the church?  If he doesn't need money, then why would we bother giving to the church?


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> well you need to sell those huntin clothes and that gun then.



Nah...I like that gun too much.  it's a straight up turkey killer.

I never said anything what church's should or should not buy with the money given.  You did.

(Oh, and the pants have a big hole in the crotch from years of crawling through briars and such...not sure goodwill would want them.)


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

I could tell yall how easy it would bee to make a church bigger. Put a sign out that says free donuts, coffee, let the church dress like the want do everything contemporary, dont preach the gospel, preach what the people wanna hear, let a rock band in the church but im not gonna go to no contemporary church like that. I am going to stick it the old time way because the BIBLE isnt gonna change for the way people act now.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> so you sound pretty faithful to your church. Don't sound like you miss any sundays.
> that being said, you sure know a lot about other churches, what they do with their money, what their preachers preach on, and how they interpret the Bible.
> I'm not sure why you think I read the NIV, (Though that would MATTER NOT AT ALL, for our discussion) but nevertheless.
> You don't know me, my church, or my preacher...and I'd say you don't know 98% of them that you talk about.
> ...





Thats what im saying we do preach those things? where have you been.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I could tell yall how easy it would bee to make a church bigger. Put a sign out that says free donuts, coffee, let the church dress like the want do everything contemporary, dont preach the gospel, preach what the people wanna hear, let a rock band in the church but im not gonna go to no contemporary church like that. I am going to stick it the old time way because the BIBLE isnt gonna change for the way people act now.



And we have our impass....take out the "don't preach the gospel" thing and "preach what people wanna hear" and you've pegged my church pretty well.

In fact (brace yourself)....I'm the drummer in that "rock band" 

There is a reason your church is small my friend...and it is not the reason you think

(BTW, ours is not really that big either....but we are growing and it's related to the reason yours is not.)


Tell me....how similar is your church (in dress, music and style) to that of the days described in the NT.  I suspect you're pretty "contemporary" in comparison.  It's all in perspective.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

There is a group of people 10 times nicer than the ones ive seen on this thread. The athiest forum are nicer to other humans than you are. Yall must really be good godly people to make me think that. peace out i can see a good christian isnt welcome on this thread.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

We don't like to tickle ears around here.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> And we have our impass....take out the "don't preach the gospel" thing and "preach what people wanna hear" and you've pegged my church pretty well.
> 
> In fact (brace yourself)....I'm the drummer in that "rock band"
> 
> ...





and we are DEFInatly DEFinatly not contemporary. im sure god wouldnt apreciate you judging other people and especially other churches. and i never said my church wasnt growing i said it was small there is another lie you have told.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> my goodness young fella..........you've taken the exact words that me and Huntin'fool are trying to teach you by every one of your posts.............now heed that advice before you talk about other churches again.
> 
> Glad you finally understand.



there is more of that good ole christian judging god likes. raise up your beer glasses for good of god... pssh


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

> I could tell yall how easy it would bee to make a church bigger. Put a sign out that says free donuts, coffee, let the church dress like the want do everything contemporary, dont preach the gospel, preach what the people wanna hear, let a rock band in the church but im not gonna go to no contemporary church like that. I am going to stick it the old time way because the BIBLE isnt gonna change for the way people act now.





> Most churches wont talk about whats wrong because they want peoples money and they dont wanna make them mad, because idk if you knew this about reading from the NIV but GOD DOsent want you doing alot of things you do and my preacher will tell you what those are unlike most churches who are ear ticklers.





> Is it one of the churches who uses all the money on themselves with the bigscreen tv and $1,000 guitars and drums and keyboards and new food courts and basket ball courts and baseball fields?




Go back and re-read these quotes of yours (I just pulled a few...there are more).  Who, exactly, would you say is judging other churches?


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## Randy (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> But...you said God blesses us with that money.  Which is it?
> 
> Could you not also see it as God blesses us with money and we bless him by giving it to the church?  If he doesn't need money, then why would we bother giving to the church?



Not really sure why people give to the church.  I would assume it is so they would have a place to go and worship because that is important to them.  I do believe MANY give because they are told that they will be blessed by God for giving.  Nearly every TV evangilist says that as do many Church Pastors. 

God blesses us in a lot of different ways.  Health, and abundant life.  Money is sometimes a part of that because sometimes we need money (that is just the way of the world).  Actually most times the blessings are way more important than money.   What He expects in return is for you to follow His word.  He does not need your money.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Go back and re-read these quotes of yours (I just pulled a few...there are more).  Who, exactly, would you say is judging other churches?



i never said your church. There is another lie. and i said i know some that are that way and thats true hand to god.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> i never said your church. There is another lie. and i said i know some that are that way and thats true hand to god.



Where did I say you were talking about my church?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

whats this world coming to.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Phariseeism?  Legalism?  I don't really know...

(I'm kidding)

You really don't think you were judging other churches (not mine in particular)?


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I am going to stick it the old time way because the BIBLE isnt gonna change for the way people act now.



I guess when you're 18, the old time way is the way it's been done for lifetimes.

You know...that organ was contemporary at one point  Those Hymns you sing were contemporary at one point.



Huntinfool said:


> We don't like to tickle ears around here.



Classic.




Gabm....there's been some good advice in this thread given to you.  The verse...Judge not lest ye be judged (KJV for ya) comes to mind.  No...not in the typical misused way.  Not that we should never judge....but we should be careful how we judge and who we judge as we will be held to that same standard.

Can you live to the standard that you've condemned others on this board to?  

Don't answer that question quickly.  Think about it.  How do things you do look to others that don't know you or your motives?


Personal note.  I once condemned a fellow member of this board about their Pastor preaching a series using titles from a country western singer.  Was it Biblical?  Who knows.  But I condemned it...judged it...called it heresy.  The member responded dejected and discouraged.  They've never participated in this forum again.  I apologized...asked for forgiveness...but the damage had already been done.  I still think about it to this day and wonder if that member is in church still.  Wonder if I pushed them out of the pew they were in.  Be careful.  That's all I'm saying.  Think before you type and hit "reply."  It will save you grief further down the road.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> I guess when you're 18, the old time way is the way it's been done for lifetimes.
> 
> You know...that organ was contemporary at one point  Those Hymns you sing were contemporary at one point.
> 
> ...





We dont have an organ lol or a piano player we just sing, aint nothing wrong with that. i kinda like it that way.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> We dont have an organ lol or a piano player we just sing, aint nothing wrong with that. i kinda like it that way.



So let me ask...what is your favorite hymn(s)?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> So let me ask...what is your favorite hymn(s)?



well i dont really have any that i dont like... but id have to say ole rugged cross just because i can sing that farely well.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

don't do it RJ....



1913 is close enough to 33 A.D and it's CERTAINLY close enough to 1611....you know that.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> don't do it RJ....
> 
> 
> 
> 1913 is close enough to 33 A.D and it's CERTAINLY close enough to 1611....you know that.



alot closer than a rock band.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Well, the songs we sing were written sometime around the year 2000.  So, that's less than 100 years difference between my songs and yours.

There's 300+ between yours (and mine) and when the 1611 KJV was written.  So, I'd venture to say that your songs and my songs are more contemporary to each other than any of them are to what they sang in 1611.

What do you think the reaction would have been had you brought Old Rugged Cross to church with you in 1611?


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> What do you think the reaction would have been had you brought Old Rugged Cross to church with you in 1611?



Back in AD33, they sang "New Rugged Cross"


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Well, the songs we sing were written sometime around the year 2000.  So, that's less than 100 years difference between my songs and yours.
> 
> There's 300+ between yours (and mine) and when the 1611 KJV was written.  So, I'd venture to say that your songs and my songs are more contemporary to each other than any of them are to what they sang in 1611.
> 
> What do you think the reaction would have been had you brought Old Rugged Cross to church with you in 1611?



if i sung it with my voice only, wouldnt be so bad thats how they did it.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

didnt i just read a post telling me not to judge and point fingers??? im not gonna p[oint fingers anymore.... that should go for alot of people.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> if i sung it with my voice only, wouldnt be so bad thats how they did it.



really?  I thought David danced in the streets with the tamborine?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

to be honest i feel yall are trying to push me away from god. im just glorifying god when i sing... and im getting put down for it.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> didnt i just read a post telling me not to judge and point fingers??? im not gonna p[oint fingers anymore.... that should go for alot of people.



lead by example Gabassmaster.  it will help you in all your relationships...relationship with your wife...relationship with your children etc etc.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> if i sung it with my voice only, wouldnt be so bad thats how they did it.



So if I sung my songs with voice only they'd be cool with it?  Is it just the band that you don't approve of?  Nobody is trying to push you away from God.  We're trying to open your eyes a little bit.  Consider it iron sharpening iron.

RJ, I'll apologize in public....we are WAY off topic.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> to be honest i feel yall are trying to push me away from god. im just glorifying god when i sing... and im getting put down for it.



no....we're doing to you what you are doing to others.

we are trying to show you how others feel when you say that using a guitar and drums is somehow wrong.

that is the problem with judging others.  you've now been judged based on your own standard.  amazing how far short we all fall compared to perfection.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> RJ, I'll apologize in public....we are WAY off topic.



fine with me...we've never been able to keep things on topic in here 

in all honesty, i think we're actually getting somewhere.  kinda like a christian counseling session via the internet.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I wont bother to post anythin else on anything delaing on christianity when im only giving my opinion and getting treated like the devil for it bye.



post your opinion...that is fine.  Just don't tell others that they're going to hel1 because they don't hold to the same opinion that you do.

that is where people will have a problem and that is when you'll have us slap you around a bit.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

...in love of course.


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> no everyone else on this forum is perfect christians and does everything right no matter how much beer they drink or how much they cuss and act like hethans and im just giving my personal opinion and everyone on the forum gangs up on me im fed up with it. Ill talk to my fellow christans on pm's from now on everyone on this thread i will have no more to do with. Because apparently im wrong for doing things the way they have been done for years and not wanting to change or give in to this "worly" crowd that the earth has filled with. Im not pointing any fingers im just saying im not gonna listen to any rock band in church when i could be listning to the gospel so i guess im sorry for wanting to hear that. Im worse than everyone on this forum times 10 and everyone on this thread has reminded me how perfect they are and how demonic i am.



Alright.  Go to your room and sulk for a while.

We'll be here when you get done 

  (btw...that's rootbeer)


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

You can't listen to a band AND hear the gospel?  Not possible?


Man, I'm in bad shape.  I listen to christian "rock bands", I sometimes wear jeans to church, I play the drums....(whisper this part)....and I drink beeeeeeer.  I also love Christ.

I had no idea the bad shape I was in.  


Not a single person has said you are demonic.  Not a single person has said they are perfect and not a single person has said you are bad.

Take a deep breath and a step back and try to hear what we're trying to tell you.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 12, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> I wont bother to post anythin else on anything delaing on christianity when im only giving my opinion and getting treated like the devil for it bye.





Young man, I`m on the outside lookin` in, as a complete neutral.

These men are tryin` to help you. If you will open your ears, eyes, and mind.


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## Huntinfool (Nov 12, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Young man, I`m on the outside lookin` in, as a complete neutral.
> 
> These men are tryin` to help you. If you will open your ears, eyes, and mind.



Nic,

I gotta be honest.  When I saw you had posted.  I assumed you'd come on in to lay down the law.  I appreciate your ability to see the intent behind these posts.

Gabass...if I've offended or hurt, for that I apologize.  The intent is to open your eyes to some things that I suspect you've been convinced of by others that are just not true.  That is done from a good place and not one intended to hurt.


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Nic,
> 
> I gotta be honest.  When I saw you had posted.  I assumed you'd come on in to lay down the law.  I appreciate your ability to see the intent behind these posts.
> 
> Gabass...if I've offended or hurt, for that I apologize.  The intent is to open your eyes to some things that I suspect you've been convinced of by others that are just not true.  That is done from a good place and not one intended to hurt.




Thank you and i accept your apology and i aploigize myself i am sorry. i understand what your saying i just go to an independant church and i believe to do it my way. you can do it your way but thats up to you, if thats how you wanna praise god then you do it that way no objections here sorry but im not going to change yalls beliefs and yall dont try to change mine because your not gonna, its a waste of your time and i appreciate you hunting fool to be the first to step up. (rootbeer remember)


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## rjcruiser (Nov 12, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Nic,
> 
> I gotta be honest.  When I saw you had posted.  I assumed you'd come on in to lay down the law.  I appreciate your ability to see the intent behind these posts.
> 
> Gabass...if I've offended or hurt, for that I apologize.  The intent is to open your eyes to some things that I suspect you've been convinced of by others that are just not true.  That is done from a good place and not one intended to hurt.



I'll second that.



Gabassmaster said:


> Thank you and i accept your apology and i aploigize myself i am sorry. i understand what your saying i just go to an independant church and i believe to do it my way. you can do it your way but thats up to you, if thats how you wanna praise god then you do it that way no objections here sorry but im not going to change yalls beliefs and yall dont try to change mine because your not gonna, its a waste of your time and i appreciate you hunting fool to be the first to step up. (rootbeer remember)




the most difficult thing is discerning between preference and principle.  I know I don't get it right all of the time....and the Lord has taught me a lot over the last 5 years in regards to this.

oh..and as long as you're here on the board...we'll try and change your opinion  I never stop trying.

btw...you ever get that system wired up in your truck?


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## Gabassmaster (Nov 12, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> I'll second that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





nah man i aint got the money for all that right now gas is wayyyy to high! but you try to change me ill be  here!


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## speedcop (Nov 12, 2010)

I personally would not debit my offering. Sometimes I may give more than usual. A debit or credit would "lock" in a number and it may be too easy to get in a routine with that. But thats just mo. I look at giving whether it's church, missions, organizations or just someone down on their luck like this. If I give it in christian love and it is used other than what it was intended for it aint me that will have to answer for it.


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## buckeroo (Jan 9, 2011)

It is 100% up to the heart of the giver. God isn't all about things "being wrong."


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