# Question for welders



## JohnnyWalker (Jan 1, 2017)

My family gave me a tig welder for Christmas and I have zero clue about welding.  So what welding helmet should I get?
Is a Jackson Shadow HSL 2 a good one?   How much should I  expect to spend on one?
Anything else that I should not do without?

Gloves
Arm sleeves
________ etc.


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## tree cutter 08 (Jan 1, 2017)

I used the old school flip down for years. Finally broke down and bought a auto darkening from tractor supply for around 100 bucks. Best money you can spend. A pair of gloves is good also. Always wear long sleeves. Short sleeves and welding for a few hours is a painfull mistake.


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## sinclair1 (Jan 1, 2017)

Tig is fairly clean and just gloves and long sleeves. I love the auto hood. It's odd to me to see someone start out with a tig, most start Mig.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 1, 2017)

I bet he got a mig and not a tig.  I have never seen anyone start learning to weld with a tig.


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## jimbo4116 (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> My family gave me a tig welder for Christmas and I have zero clue about welding.  So what welding helmet should I get?
> Is a Jackson Shadow HSL 2 a good one?   How much should I  expect to spend on one?
> Anything else that I should not do without?
> 
> ...



Tig or Mig?

Good auto helmet. Welding gloves.  Long sleve cotton shirts, boots your pants leg will cover.  See if you can get a class somewhere.  Burning tig rods and gas  will get to be expensive practice during trial and error. Lot to learn on Tig.


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## T-N-T (Jan 1, 2017)

I got an auto darkening hood from Harbour Freight for around $60 with their coupon.  Its a GREAT value and good hood!

Treecutter is correct too....welding for an hour or so in T shirt will leave you with a farmers tan, or burn as it is, you wont ever forget.


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## NOYDB (Jan 1, 2017)

Do whatever it takes to protect your eyes. Always.


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## rayjay (Jan 1, 2017)

As usual, a pic is worth many words.

My pet peeve with welding is the number of fools you see welding with bare skin exposed. I wear full leathers anytime the thing is turned on. The welding arc throws off intense UV rays which is very bad for the skin.


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## JohnnyWalker (Jan 1, 2017)

My bad!  It is a MIG.


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

You really need to learn stick welding and wire feed mig first,,,, and grinding also,,,,


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## JohnnyWalker (Jan 1, 2017)

Grinding what?


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## lagrangedave (Jan 1, 2017)

The welds.....................before and after..............


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> Grinding what?



Well, you have to have a good ground to connect to,,,, on whatever your welding,,,, I would highly recommend you get someone to help you at first or take a class,,,, your dealing with high pressure gas,,,, high voltage and amps,,,, do you know anyone that can weld that can teach you,,,,


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## jimbo4116 (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> Grinding what?



You need to at least get on you tube and look at some welding videos.  

When you start practicing be sure to weld in as open a space as you can either on concrete or the ground.  You are going to get splatter balls which if they fall in the wrong place can start fires.  Always check behind yourself for hot spots


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## MudDucker (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> Grinding what?



 You in trouble boy and just don't know it.  Welding is 90% surface prep and 10% burn.  The surface prep comes both before and after the weld.  Surface welds aren't good for much of anything.  Ground out V channel welds are usually the best for what most hobby welders do.  Then most welds are over puddled and need to be reduced or cleaned up by grinding.  If I were you, I would at least look for a good welder how to on YouTube or a quick course at the tech school.

I have a MIG, but when I want to really want to join it, I pull out the old sticks and buzz box.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 1, 2017)

Cmp1 said:


> Well, you have to have a good ground to connect to,,,, on whatever your welding,,,, I would highly recommend you get someone to help you at first or take a class,,,, your dealing with high pressure gas,,,, high voltage and amps,,,, do you know anyone that can weld that can teach you,,,,



uhhhh..... low voltage, high amps


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## jimbo4116 (Jan 1, 2017)

MudDucker said:


> You in trouble boy and just don't know it.  Welding is 90% surface prep and 10% burn.  The surface prep comes both before and after the weld.  Surface welds aren't good for much of anything.  Ground out V channel welds are usually the best for what most hobby welders do.  Then most welds are over puddled and need to be reduced or cleaned up by grinding.  If I were you, I would at least look for a good welder how to on YouTube or a quick course at the tech school.
> 
> I have a MIG, but when I want to really want to join it, I pull out the old sticks and buzz box.



You are exactly right.  There is just to much to learn to try to put all in a post here.


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

MudDucker said:


> You in trouble boy and just don't know it.  Welding is 90% surface prep and 10% burn.  The surface prep comes both before and after the weld.  Surface welds aren't good for much of anything.  Ground out V channel welds are usually the best for what most hobby welders do.  Then most welds are over puddled and need to be reduced or cleaned up by grinding.  If I were you, I would at least look for a good welder how to on YouTube or a quick course at the tech school.
> 
> I have a MIG, but when I want to really want to join it, I pull out the old sticks and buzz box.



This is what I was trying to say, but you said it alot better,,,, get him some help,,,, get a course,,,, it's a dangerous proposition without some training,,,,


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> uhhhh..... low voltage, high amps



A good mig welder is 240 volts,,,, that's high voltage to me,,,, it's the amps that kill you,,,, a half amp will kill you in a heartbeat,,,,


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

I grinded for a welder for 5yrs,,,, this guy used a Miller wire feed,,,, all his welds were a dime width in consistency,,,, and my grinds had to be nickle width on the lands,,,, 10 to 24 in pipe half in wall thickness,,,, all x rayed,,,, he failed 2 welds in 5yrs,,,, 2800 psi natural gas,,,, best welder I've ever seen,,,, he taught me,,,, but I'm no way as good as he was, nor will I ever be,,,,


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 1, 2017)

Cmp1 said:


> A good mig welder is 240 volts,,,, that's high voltage to me,,,, it's the amps that kill you,,,, a half amp will kill you in a heartbeat,,,,



240vac input, but only 24-30 VDC output.

I call that low voltage.  Amps can run up to 250 or so, and I call that high amp.


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

True, but it's still the amps that kill you, let alone the high press gas,,,, and DC will get you just like AC,,,, so if you want to argue a moot point,,,, feel free,,,, the point is,,,, it's dangerous if you don't know what your doing,,,, so argue a moot point if you want to,,,, but it's still not the point,,,, period,,,, listen to MudDucker,,,,


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## NE GA Pappy (Jan 1, 2017)

Cmp1 said:


> True, but it's still the amps that kill you, let alone the high press gas,,,, and DC will get you just like AC,,,, so if you want to argue a moot point,,,, feel free,,,, the point is,,,, it's dangerous if you don't know what your doing,,,, so argue a moot point if you want to,,,, but it's still not the point,,,, period,,,, listen to MudDucker,,,,



Huh?   All I did is point out that it is low voltage.  He made an innocent mistake, in my opinion.  I thought we were trying to be factual here.  No one mentioned being killed or anything else.  

I have been welding longer than you have been alive, and I suppose that I know a bit about it, but why don't you educate us some more.

To the OP... sorry to inject fact into your thread, when some just want to put themselves on a pedestal above us lowly peons.  

My last post in here.  Bye.


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## sinclair1 (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> Grinding what?


The pro machines that use shield gas and solid wire don't need much grinding if you use splatterguard and have the settings right, just a wire brush......but a homeowner model that uses fluxcore wire gets tricky for even a seasoned welder, so most just grind it smooth.

Once you get used to it, you will be eyeballing the scrapers loads for all the expensive bar stock and other expensive stock.


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## JohnnyWalker (Jan 1, 2017)

Thanks guys.  I do realize that with respect to welding that I am clueless and you have confirmed my suspicions in that respect.


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Huh?   All I did is point out that it is low voltage.  He made an innocent mistake, in my opinion.  I thought we were trying to be factual here.  No one mentioned being killed or anything else.
> 
> I have been welding longer than you have been alive, and I suppose that I know a bit about it, but why don't you educate us some more.
> 
> ...



Yeah, OK,,,, no pedestal buddy,,, my only point was to get some training for the OP, so he wouldn't hurt himself,,,, I know if I didn't have some training I wouldn't do it,,,, let's see some of your welds,,,, if the beads aren't a dime width you aren't welding good,,,, I can't do it, I'm lousy welding,,,, I know it and I freely admit it, but I know how to be safe,,,, it sounds to me like we used to say,,,, you know just enough to be dangerous,,,,


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## sinclair1 (Jan 1, 2017)

Cmp1 said:


> Yeah, OK,,,, no pedestal buddy,,, my only point was to get some training for the OP, so he wouldn't hurt himself,,,, I know if I didn't have some training I wouldn't do it,,,, let's see some of your welds,,,, if the beads aren't a dime width you aren't welding good,,,, I can't do it, I'm lousy welding,,,, I know it and I freely admit it, but I know how to be safe,,,, it sounds to me like we used to say,,,, you know just enough to be dangerous,,,,


I welded for a living and could stack some dimes, but width of a dime would have gotten me fired unless I was working on the railroad. There are some jobs where you make the big sweeping circles for a large deep heat with a big powerful machine, but saying that would only make it hard on the OP. The most he will get out of a homeowner machine is a bead about the size of a pencil eraser and he shouldn't expect the stacked dime pattern, it's going to look more like a caterpillar for a good while.


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## NOYDB (Jan 1, 2017)

JohnnyWalker said:


> Thanks guys.  I do realize that with respect to welding that I am clueless and you have confirmed my suspicions in that respect.



Practice, Practice, Practice, then Practice some more. Start small. Then more Practice. Enjoy.


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## HP3 (Jan 1, 2017)

As some of the others have stated, when welding there are safety concerns when dealing with hot metal etc.. It would be beneficial if you could find someone to at least familiarize you but YouTube is your friend regardless.  I would suggest buying a quality welding helmet. I use a Speedglass (Personal preference there are many other reputable helmets out there). Your eyes are IMPORTANT.  Otherwise have fun with it.  No one was born with the knowledge to weld, grind or anything else for that matter.  If you are welding as a hobby etc. just have fun with it.  You will never regret learning no matter what skill level you are at.  Feel free to ask questions, that's the only way to get answers.


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## Davexx1 (Jan 1, 2017)

JW

By all means go take a basic welding course at a technical training school or similar.  That way you learn about the welder, how to set it up, make settings and adjustments, learn about the metals, shielding gases, tools and materials you will be using and learn how to weld and do it safely.  A good foundation of training and learning could lead to a career that is in high demand.

Good luck, Dave


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## Cmp1 (Jan 1, 2017)

sinclair1 said:


> I welded for a living and could stack some dimes, but width of a dime would have gotten me fired unless I was working on the railroad. There are some jobs where you make the big sweeping circles for a large deep heat with a big powerful machine, but saying that would only make it hard on the OP. The most he will get out of a homeowner machine is a bead about the size of a pencil eraser and he shouldn't expect the stacked dime pattern, it's going to look more like a caterpillar for a good while.



Totally agree sin1,,,, he was just being argumentative,,,, I was just trying to point out that SAFTEY is allways number 1,,,,and I'm a lousy welder,,,, you should see some of my welds,,,, but still SAFTEY is still number 1,,,,if you don't know what your doing, get some training,,,, I was 40ft in a 24in piece of pipe grinding from the inside with my welding jacket on,,,, I came out and I was on fire,,,, didn't even know it and their supposed to be fireproof,,,, my buddy put me out,,,, good thing I wasn't alone,,,, funny,,,,


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## fireman401 (Jan 2, 2017)

Go find the local Agricultural Education program for your county.   Ask if they have an Agricultural Mechanics program that teaches hot metal work and welding.  I bet the teacher can get you going in just a couple of hours.  That will be very basic and then it is up to you to practice A LOT!  Do a google search for videos on MIG welding.  There is a good set by Wall Mountain.
I have taught hundreds of high school students to weld and adults also.  It is not hard once you get the basics.  One thing though, there is a BIG difference in hobby work and what the professionals do on job sites and plant shut downs.  That is a much different situation that I wouldn't even begin to claim the ability to do.  Good Luck


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## trents99 (Jan 2, 2017)

If by chance you ended up with a harbor freight flux core welder do not run their brand of wire. It will discourage you quickly. At least run out to Lowes and get you some Lincoln wire to get started. As for helmet I would go with the $50 harbor freight auto darken incase you don't like welding. Later on you can seek out a better one but it will serve you well in the beginning.

As others have said either find someone to help or take a class. Now a days you can take just a mig class at most tech schools.


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## Jeff C. (Jan 2, 2017)

#1 on my list is eye protection. You don't ever want burnt eyes, I can promise you that. And yes, I welded mostly mig for a living for quite a few years.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 2, 2017)

Since you started with an auto darkening, you will never know how to appreciate it. So I will explain. Take expanded metal, for example, such as used on a trailer floor. Welding without an auto darkening would require so much trouble. Unlike a longer weld which you can see once started, the expanded metal is restart over and over. Perfect for auto darkening. Next, intro welders often come with a small wire spool. Go ahead a convert to the large spool. You will be glad you did rather than run out of wire midway into a project. Also, convert to gas, if it did not come this way. The .... whats it called, flux core wire, just makes a splatter mess, only good for outside, windy use. The gas will make you a much better welder. Go ahead and buy you a welder cart, LOL, don't be tempted to make this your first project. They are cheap. On the back of the unit, where the gas line comes out of the unit to the tank. This often get to much wear and tear due to pushing it as close to the wall for storage. Put a 90 degree fitting here to fix the problem. Buy yourself some cheap assorted visegrip type clamps. Extra tips because at some point you will need to replace as they stop feeding, due to user error. Be careful if your unit has power level increments like, A, B, C, D to make sure the knob is seated and not partially between. It will ruin your welder. Wire speed and power setting comes from experience but the charts [metal thickness] that come with your welder will get the job done.  You will likely need to grind/clean your contact area of your ground. This is normal on most metal. Welding puts off a smell that will make you feel sick if no good ventilation. And often there is none due to keeping your area draft free for better gas disbursement. A old timer once told me to drink milk to coat the stomach lining. I just stop often and air out my work area. Be careful, many weld with spotters cause once that helmet is on, you could unknowingly start a fire and not be aware until it's to late. They say that two kinds exists, those that weld pretty beads and those that clean up the weld making it look better with a grinder. The latter is a grinder, not a welder. I admit, I am a grinder. For my personal use, and lack of practice from my 3 or 4 uses a year, I am happy with the results. If I need anything thick welded, I still take it to be welded. I fab everything and weld it enough to hold a let a pro finish it. You will have to have a grinder. Most of your typical uses will need to be cleaned up, or paint ground off to be able to weld. A class would be great. Youtube, or a welding book. It will describe how to weld, how it is different than glueing. How to weld a strong bead, what to look for, etc. But it is easy once you have confidence in your knowledge. And it's not like playing with dynomite. It is reasonably safe. But you need to get informed and practice. I find  1/8 to 3/16 size metal the easiest to weld. Don't start practicing any thinner. It will only frustrate you. And start with like size metals and composition. Welding conduit to steel is frustrating. Welding 1/16- to 1/4 is frustrating. Start easy, increase your ability from there. Good luck. And don't tell the neighbors you can and have a welder.


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## Moonpie1 (Jan 2, 2017)

I started in an apprentice program May of 1977. Turned out May of 1980. Still had to go through the pay increases for the fourth year even though I was performing code welding. Started out plate welding, then progressed to pressure welding. Boiler tubes were open butt heli arc and capped with stick rod. Performed "hot welds" from 1" thick to the thickest was 5&3/4" inch thick headers. These would preheat to a minimum of 350 degrees depending on metal composition. Some of the thicker headers took a pair of welders 10 to 11 days to complete. Everything of this thickness was 100% X-ray. Try to find some instruction initially, types of metal, welding techniques etc. By all means protect exposed skin with some type of flame retardant garments. And can't stress enough about eye protection! Once you get the basics, time under a hood is your best teacher of what will work and not work. I made my living traveling and welding for 20+ years. I still have a Lincoln buzz box for small projects around the house and friends. Sorry for the long post. Still enjoy burning a few rods from time to time, eye sight isn't what it used to be! Enjoy the journey!


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## bassboy1 (Jan 2, 2017)

Watch every MIG related video on this site.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

There are plenty of people making and posting 'instructional' welding videos, but most of them are done by very inexperienced people, with more time on their hands than actual skills.  They are often inadvertently teaching bad habits.  

Jody from the site I linked to above is very knowledgeable, and his videos are loaded with high quality information.  To my knowledge, its the best resource for the new welder, short of in person instruction.


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## fireman32 (Jan 3, 2017)

Auto darkening helmet, as dark as possible.  Clean metal, a good ground and leathers.  Do not wear tattered clothing and make sure all aerosol cans and explosives are well away from your area.  Do not weld on top of an empty drum that had any flammable material in it.  Start with .25'' to 3/8'' steel plate to learn on.  MIG is fine for metal joinery,  but doesn't always burn hot enough for high pressure applications.  It should sound like frying bacon when you have the temp and wire feed right.  Practice makes perfect.


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## T.P. (Jan 3, 2017)

I'll go against the grain here and say while an auto hood is cool, it is not necessary. Unless you are making repetitive, back-to-back welds, a cheap hood will be all a man ever needs. Pick up a load of scrap and just practice with it, it's fairly easy to make good welds wit a mig gun. 

One other point, you may have said what size machine you have, but I may have missed it, the smaller homeowner machines are good for thin-walled tube and that's about it. They just don't produce the heat for the thicker sections.

Good luck on your welding ventures, it's a good profession to learn.


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## Backlasher82 (Jan 3, 2017)

Getting your work clean is important but don't use brake cleaner to degrease the metal, it can produce a deadly gas.


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## bassboy1 (Jan 3, 2017)

T.P. said:


> I'll go against the grain here and say while an auto hood is cool, it is not necessary. Unless you are making repetitive, back-to-back welds, a cheap hood will be all a man ever needs.



I disagree.  The auto dark will potentially limit accidental arc flash.  It's a lot harder to accidentally flash yourself when the hood is already down.  I've only got one set of eyes.  Let's keep them healthy.

And, for something I'm very guilty of - it discourages the practice of closing your eyes to tack.  I have a bad habit of not wearing a hood for tack ups.  Not a big deal on some things, but when I'm assembling a run of parts, it can be a straight 8 hour run of tack up.  UV burn results.



> One other point, you may have said what size machine you have, but I may have missed it, the smaller homeowner machines are good for thin-walled tube and that's about it. They just don't produce the heat for the thicker sections.



^This is truth.  Most 115v machines claim they can do 1/4".  This is pretty much a lie, only legal due to a technicality (same sort of thing that allows a shop vac to be rated at 5 hp, when in reality it's about 1/3 hp.  

With solid wire, you are pretty much limited to 11 gauge (and that's stretching it) on 115v.


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## walkinboss01 (Aug 2, 2018)

I came across this old tread and I'm looking for a little advice. I'm looking at possibly getting a welder for homeowners use and was trying to determine what I need. The most I'd probably be welding is 1/4" stuff. Could a 115v welder do that? What are some decent units? I've welded a little before, but would need lots of practice. Are the harbor freight welders decent? Thx


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## bassboy1 (Aug 2, 2018)

walkinboss01 said:


> I came across this old tread and I'm looking for a little advice. I'm looking at possibly getting a welder for homeowners use and was trying to determine what I need. The most I'd probably be welding is 1/4" stuff. Could a 115v welder do that? What are some decent units? I've welded a little before, but would need lots of practice. Are the harbor freight welders decent? Thx



Depends on if you are actually trying to weld it, or just 'stick it together.'  

What type of stuff are you likely going to be working on?


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## normaldave (Aug 3, 2018)

This one has been on my list for some time.  Good quality for the price, excellent reviews, claims 1/4" on 110 Volt, but reportedly takes more prep work on the metal and a couple passes on the weld.  Everytime I read up on "best 110V welder", this one seems to be at the top of everybody's list. Rural King has them for 489.00 delivered, but sometimes Northern's on/off coupon codes gets their price below that.
Hobart Handler 140

Manufacturer link


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## j_seph (Aug 3, 2018)

If you get an auto darkening helmet, yes they are great but get one you can replace the battery in. Mine has battery that charges by solar. Worked great until I had not used it for a little bit. Went to weld mower the other day and noticed when I made an arc to tac it together that I seen a blue spot. Battery dead, left it out to charge and notta. So now it is junk and have to buy another helmet.


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## OmenHonkey (Aug 3, 2018)

I have a Lincoln 110V i got from a Pawn shop years ago. Best money i've ever spent and i weld stuff quite frequently all around the house and farm with it.


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## Jack Ryan (Aug 3, 2018)

T.P. said:


> I'll go against the grain here and say while an auto hood is cool, it is not necessary. Unless you are making repetitive, back-to-back welds, a cheap hood will be all a man ever needs. Pick up a load of scrap and just practice with it, it's fairly easy to make good welds wit a mig gun.
> 
> One other point, you may have said what size machine you have, but I may have missed it, the smaller homeowner machines are good for thin-walled tube and that's about it. They just don't produce the heat for the thicker sections.
> 
> Good luck on your welding ventures, it's a good profession to learn.


Wants and needs, two most confused words in the English language.

I've made thousands of weld with just a piece of glass from a hood. I thought gluing it to a stick was getting fancy.


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## walkinboss01 (Aug 4, 2018)

Yeah, I read good stuff about the Hobart handler 140 as well. Thx for input


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## JohnnyWalker (Aug 8, 2018)

Thanks guys.  I am planning on going for some training so at the very least I 
don't cook myself or something else.  On the point of my first post, I must once
again correct myself.  Mine is a flux core welder not a MIG.  
Kind of like hand grenades close but that only counts in hand grenades.


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