# Lulu bit me tonight



## Jody Hawk (Jan 21, 2011)

We raised our pug Lulu from a puppy, she's now about five years old. I've grown so attached to this dog and she gets treated like a queen around here. Well, tonight my wife gave her a bone off of a T bone steak. I acted like I was gonna take it away from her and she growled at me. Rhonda said, "I believe she would bite you". I told her that Lulu was just growling because I was aggravating her but she would never actually bite me. About that time she jumped at me and bit me on my forearm. I've never been so disappointed in a dog.


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## bkl021475 (Jan 21, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> We raised our pug Lulu from a puppy. I've grown so attached to this dog. Well, tonight my wife gave her a bone off of a T bone steak. I acted like I was gonna take it away from her and she growled at me. Rhonda said, "I believe she would bite you". I told her that Lulu was just growling but would never actually bite me. About that time she bit me on my forearm. I've never been so disappointed in a dog.



I wouldn't mess with Lulu's bone anymore!


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## coolbreezeroho (Jan 21, 2011)

bkl021475 said:


> I wouldn't mess with Lulu's bone anymore!



A wiseman has spoken.....


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## Tag-a-long (Jan 21, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> We raised our pug Lulu from a puppy, she's now about five years old. I've grown so attached to this dog and she gets treated like a queen around here. Well, tonight my wife gave her a bone off of a T bone steak. I acted like I was gonna take it away from her and she growled at me. Rhonda said, "I believe she would bite you". I told her that Lulu was just growling because I was aggravating her but she would never actually bite me. About that time she jumped at me and bit me on my forearm. I've never been so disappointed in a dog.



At the risk of sounding like a smart donkey ... why be disappointed in the dog?  You created the situation.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 22, 2011)

Tag-a-long said:


> At the risk of sounding like a smart donkey ... why be disappointed in the dog?  You created the situation.



Because I'm her master, if I wanted the bone I should have been able to take it from her. I have a two year old grandchild, what if he tries to take her toy from her? My niece had their labrador retriever maul her when she was little for doing the same thing. She has scars across her face to this day. I've owned dogs all my life including three other ones right now and I can't think of one that would have bitten me over that. I've always said if I had a dog that bites me, it would be a dead dog.


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## LEON MANLEY (Jan 22, 2011)

I take what ever I want away from my Lab. She might not like it, but she keeps it to herself.
Jody I have always felt the same way, I can't have a growler much less a biter. It's a tough call, especially when it's a house dog.
I sure wouldn't want to have to make your decision.


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## ellaville hunter (Jan 22, 2011)

I know what I would do


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## Capt Quirk (Jan 22, 2011)

Maybe if'n you weren't so mean, somebody would give you your own bone...


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## littlewolf (Jan 22, 2011)

Sounds like a dominance issue. You maybe have treated your dog so well to the point that she does not understand that you are dominant? I am curious what your response was when she bit you. Did you punish her? My first thought would be to punish her and then recreate the situation repeatedly until desired result was achieved.  There are little things you can do to assert dominance and I don't mean beating. One is to pick the dog's front legs up from behind and then roll them over on their back exposing their belly.  I do this with any dogs that are going to be around my kids.  The dog *should* let you do this. If they don't I won't allow my kids around them. A submissive dog should also let you take a bone out of their mouth or take their food dish away while eating.  I do have one dog that will growl at me if I try to take a bone from her but it is playful. Ultimately she knows that if I want  that bone its mine and I have tested this several times. She is a very  obedient dog, but she is also very smart and I think she just likes the game aka the attention.  It has alarmed other folks the way she growls at me and I have to tell them she is playing.  I have seen her really growl at something and it is a different tone plus her hair on her back stands straight up. Body language is important. But I think there is a serious problem if you have a five year old dog that you raised from a pup that won't let you take a bone from its mouth. I would be very concerned about this animal around kids.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 22, 2011)

littlewolf said:


> I am curious what your response was when she bit you. Did you punish her?



I slapped her across her face and butt and told her to get in her pen. Which she did. I'm just dumbfounded because she is a very loving dog. My wife tells me all the time, "That dog loves you to death".


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## Nicodemus (Jan 22, 2011)

Jody, do you have the heart to kill your dog, after you provoked her like that?


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## LEON MANLEY (Jan 22, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Jody, do you have the heart to kill your dog, after you provoked her like that?



What if the grandchild provokes the dog?


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## JustUs4All (Jan 22, 2011)

Probably not the dog's fault, but at this point allowing that dog to have contact with a small child would be another mistake.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 22, 2011)

LEON MANLEY said:


> What if the grandchild provokes the dog?





There are a lot of "what ifs" in life, Leon. And no dog, ever, can be totally trusted. No matter how well it is trained.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 22, 2011)

If it was my dog I'd do anything to train it into obedience, and for it to know who's the boss.  It sounds like your dog loves ya a whole bunch, so puttin it down wouldn't even be a consideration.
If this was the frist time you provoked this behavior, then it's up nto you to ammend her behavior.   I'd find out everything about the breed, disposition, tendencies, and try to judge how to work an obedience program into its life.  There just may be a single trust issue with her food that needs to be tackled.  I pray it isn't anything worse than that.


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## LEON MANLEY (Jan 22, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> There are a lot of "what ifs" in life, Leon. And no dog, ever, can be totally trusted. No matter how well it is trained.



So Nick, are you saying all dogs are not to be trusted?
I treat dogs like people, I trust them unless they prove untrustworthy. A dog growling at me does not earn much trust, it's about the same as the guy in your tool shed late at night.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 22, 2011)

LEON MANLEY said:


> So Nick, are you saying all dogs are not to be trusted?
> I treat dogs like people, I trust them unless they prove untrustworthy. A dog growling at me does not earn much trust, it's about the same as the guy in your tool shed late at night.





That is exactly what I am sayin`. Unless you can read its mind, you really can`t predict what an animal will do, especially if you provoke or corner it. I think a lot of my own dogs, and every dog I have ever owned, but I do not fully trust any of them completely.


Why in God`s name I ever posted on this thread to begin with is beyond me. Ya`ll have at it.


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## usmc6114 (Jan 22, 2011)

I love my dogs and treat them better than I treat most people but they have hundreds of years of survival and dominance instincts and humans can't forget that... The dog will do what animals have always done no matter how domesticated they have become. Take a pet and dump it out and watch how quickly they can revert to being wild.


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## bobman (Jan 22, 2011)

> Why in God`s name I ever posted on this thread to begin with is beyond me. Ya`ll have at it./QUOTE]
> 
> I'll probably feel the same way but here goes
> 
> ...


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## Sugar Plum (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm with Nic on this one. I would never have provoked my dog like that. 

However, that being said, if either of our dogs bit me while I tried to take something away, we would have a serious problem. 

I have a large, 55 lb dog. Recently, he got into some of the discarded bones of the deer my husband cleaned during the season. He tried to raise his hackles at me when I walked up to him, but knew better than to growl or bite. He learned his lesson the first time he growled. 

With two young children and a baby on the way...A bite would be a sad day in this household.


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## fireretriever (Jan 22, 2011)

That is your dog and it belongs to you. Don't let it have it's way or you are in for bigger problems.You have to be the boss, don't let that little sucker do anything that is not ok with you. I mean if it is going to eat it can watch you eat first if you are going out a door or gate you always go first and if the sucker bites you become the dominant dog and win the fight or the battle will be lost.


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## 243Savage (Jan 22, 2011)

My .02 FWIW...

You can't raise and train them giving them any idea that you are their peer at any level or they will eventually challenge you at some point and IMO you just experienced that.  They have to always know you are the alpha.  I think as time went on, you've compromised your role as the alpha and the dog is taking advantage of it.  

The lab pup I'm having now will get trained just as all the previous ones have....no games or activity that puts me on a peer level such as tug of war, etc, it will not sleep in the bed because I'm not a littermate and there is no "free feeding" where it can go to it's food bowl at will.  It's put on a regular schedule for feeding knowing I'm in control of time and place.  He'll know he's a loved, well cared for member of the family but won't get coddled or babied and will be trained to know that certain behavior is not optional, being positively rewarded for the good.  A negative response from me never ever includes physical punishment.  Ever.  He'll sit or perform another sort of obediance command prior to being fed and I spend time handling his food, or stirring around in his bowl while he's eating right from day 1 as a pup so he get's conditioned to my hand and doesn't become food aggressive if something needs to be removed.  I never tease, especially with food or bones.  He either gets it or he doesn't and knows that I can take it away at will.  

I think because of the approach I've taken raising and training mine, I've never had one I raised from a pup challenge me for anything and have always been well behaved and disciplined.  I'm the alpha and they know that through their entire life.  An example being our last dog that was raised the same way.  You could reach into his bowl and grab a handful of kibble and he paid you no mind.  The same went with taking away a big delicious chew bone.  Does that mean I'll never get challenged or bit?  No, because as is Nic's comments about trust, you never know what's going on in a dog's mind and they never have my total 100% trust they won't but raised and trained right the odds are in your favor. They're not human, they're animals and you never know what may trigger them be it an environmental or physical influence.

You and the family are the "pack" and you have to unquestionably be the alpha at all times.  Somewhere along the way, I think the dog may have lost sight of that.


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## Boondocks (Jan 22, 2011)

Best leave Lulu T bone alone.How would you like someone taking your Tbone after a long day and you were hungry.Seems like you sorta provoked the dog.


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## Arrow3 (Jan 22, 2011)

Im sorry that she bit you but she is a dog and its hard to be mad at her when you provoked her....I had a dachshund growing up and he loved me more then anything in the world....There was one rule with him though. When food hit the ground, it was his...He didn't play when it came to that....Most dogs are dominate over food..


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## holton27596 (Jan 22, 2011)

My annie growled at me over a bone a few months ago, at which point i grabbed her and tore her little fannie up! She has been an absolute sweetheart since then.


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## Benji314 (Jan 22, 2011)

My work dog is trained in apprehension (bite). With him, as with several others I have seen, you have to show that you are the Alpha Dog. Every once in a blue moon he will try to take over that top spot. We have our Come to Jesus Meeting and we are good for another few months. Do I let him around my children with out me right there by them? No, but then again I don't let our little house dog stay around the kids without the wife or I there. They after all were once wild animals. Deep down they still have those tendencies in them.


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## LEON MANLEY (Jan 22, 2011)

I have never had to take anything from my Lab, I just tell her to drop it. If it's OK for her to have then I tell it's OK. I started that back when she was a pup, because you don't ever know what they will have in their mouth next.
And yes even if it is a steak bone and I tell her to drop it, she drops it.


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## Benji314 (Jan 22, 2011)

LEON MANLEY said:


> I have never had to take anything from my Lab, I just tell her to drop it. If it's OK for her to have then I tell it's OK. I started that back when she was a pup, because you don't ever know what they will have in their mouth next.
> And yes even if it is a steak bone and I tell her to drop it, she drops it.



Good training there. You are right you have to start them young to get them trained to do that. My boy drops every time he is told. Now sometimes when we train and he is on a bite he doesn't want to "out" on the first command but he will after I raise my voice. That's just him being all worked up.


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## bobman (Jan 22, 2011)

don't play in a dogs food nothing good is accomplished with that

train your dogs to release on command with a command like "give" or "leave it"


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## dawg2 (Jan 22, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> There are a lot of "what ifs" in life, Leon. And no dog, ever, can be totally trusted. No matter how well it is trained.



I agree.

Every dog I have had we have been able to stick your hand in the food bucket, take food away, take bones away, raw meat, treats, doesn't matter.  This is something you need to start with a young dog and reinforce.  Especially if you have kids so they learn the pack order, with the dog at the bottom.  

Food is a "rank order" item and lets the dog know their rank, even when kids can remove it anytime.  My cur knows the boys own his food and they are "Letting" him eat.  They learn their position really quick.

But, like Nic said no dog can ever be fully trusted no matter how well it is trained.  It's a dog. <----And yes, I absolutely mean that (blue).


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## LEON MANLEY (Jan 22, 2011)

People can't be fully trusted either, no matter how well they have been trained.

I don't believe in convicting with out probable cause.


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## Fatz (Jan 22, 2011)

Treat a dog like a dog! If you spoil a dog they don't know their place in the house.  I have bulldogs and I can take anything I want to away from them.  All dogs should be taught to out/leave it. If my dogs even looked liked they were going to bite me or my family they would go see Elvis immediately! People with small dogs tend to let them get away with more, until they bite some kid in the face.


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## Drew33998 (Jan 23, 2011)

do you take her food away from her when shes not finished all the time?  i think its instinct for a dog to protect food from being taken. however if youve never taken food from her before, she might not have known exactly how to handle the situation. give her a bit of food and then when shes acknowledges you give her a bit more. that lets her know that you are the provider of food


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## Fatz (Jan 24, 2011)

My dogs are hand fed by me, my wife, or my children.  They sit and act calm or they dont get any food! No free feeding!


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## vonnick52 (Jan 24, 2011)

Recently, my sister was bitten by one of her friend's dogs up in Yankeeland, where I'm from (Indiana).  

It did break skin a bit, but nothing too serious.  By the time the authorities got there to do a rabies test a few hours later, they had to dig the dog up cause it had already been shot and buried by the owner.  

I see no place in the world for a dog with any sort of people aggression unless that is the desired trait, i.e. guard dog, K9 work, etc.  Putting a dog that's proven itself to be aggressive with children could very well result in one of those terrible stories you hear.


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## K9SAR (Jan 24, 2011)

It's called "resource guarding."  Time to teach the dog that YOU are the master of the household...not her.

P.S. Human Aggression ("People Aggression," not to be confused with Dog Aggression) is a disorder in which the dog's temperament is weak, and it's behavior is unpredictable and flawed.  It's never been a breed trait, and it sure as heck isn't desirable in a guard dog nor K-9.  Dogs that are Human Aggression are a liability.


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## j_seph (Jan 24, 2011)

Just remember Jody, if you put the dog and the wife in the trunk and drove 5 miles the dog would still be happy to see you when you open the trunk!
My buddy who is a lurker on here has a little chicuaua(sp) that bit me and my fist is bigger than it's head lol


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## crackerdave (Jan 24, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Jody, do you have the heart to kill your dog, after you provoked her like that?



Oh,NO! Not an "Old Yeller Moment!"


Sorry - if a dog that I'd raised bit _me,_ said dog would get sent out to th' pen with NO food for a couple days.Then he/she would know who controls the food.


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## Bkeepr (Jan 25, 2011)

I used to foster rescue Australian cattle dogs and I would practice taking food from them, praising them for not reacting and returning the food to them.  They would then learn that if they behave and act nice, they are going to get the food eventually.  Start with regular dog food, not something as highly coveted as a steak bone.  Use your voice to scold them if they start to growl.  Have a leash on the dog so before things go south and you get bit, you can restrain the dog and get it away from the food.

Also no dogs get any food without first doing something for it, preferably something submissive like "lie down".


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## dawg2 (Jan 25, 2011)

Bkeepr said:


> I used to foster rescue Australian cattle dogs and I would practice taking food from them, praising them for not reacting and returning the food to them.  They would then learn that if they behave and act nice, they are going to get the food eventually.  Start with regular dog food, not something as highly coveted as a steak bone.  Use your voice to scold them if they start to growl.  Have a leash on the dog so before things go south and you get bit, you can restrain the dog and get it away from the food.
> 
> Also no dogs get any food without first doing something for it, preferably something submissive like "lie down".


That is a very good point.  My dogs have always been food neutral, so "SIT" was the command they got.  Food is fixed and set in front of them.  They were only allowed to eat when "OK" was said.  

But I have worked with some friend's dogs that had food aggression.  They said they didn't know what to do.  I would make them lie down first when the food was placed which knocks them down a notch.  Surprisingly, it does work fast.  You put them in a submissive position and then they are allowed to eat.  Non compliance results in an empty belly.  Dogs learn REALLY quickly where their position is.  

Food aggression (regular dry/moist food, table scraps, bones, treats, etc.) should be one of the first things addressed at a young age and eliminated as a bad habit.


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## the r.o.c. (Feb 1, 2011)

hey jody, i can tell you exactly why that happened.  your pug has switched over...shes an uga dog.  i just couldnt help myself.  small house dogs arent like outdoor dogs. my lab wont take food from my hand unless i tell her its ok. she doesnt start eating until i start walking away.  my shih tzu, is just the opposite. you may have to retrain the pug and show her the error of her way.  just think ugapug.


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## CAL (Feb 2, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> There are a lot of "what ifs" in life, Leon. And no dog, ever, can be totally trusted. No matter how well it is trained.



I fully agree with this statement.Around small children,I trust no dog,no time.
I did have a pit once that bit me under the same circumstances.After I finished getting his attention i could take anything from him any time.I still didn't trust him.


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## Jody Hawk (Feb 2, 2011)

If I feed her in her bowl, I can reach down and take the bowl away from her without her even growling at me. Obviously, she loves a T Bone alot better than Pedigree.  It didn't break the skin when she bit me. We still love her and I couldn't bring myself to do anything to harm her. She's a precious little dog 99.9% of the time.


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## shakey gizzard (Feb 2, 2011)

Your not the pack leader anymore! Reestablish your spot!


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## Cottontail (Feb 2, 2011)

Its not her Fault those T-Bones were just that good!!


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## lab (Feb 2, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> If I feed her in her bowl, I can reach down and take the bowl away from her without her even growling at me. Obviously, she loves a T Bone alot better than Pedigree.  It didn't break the skin when she bit me. We still love her and I couldn't bring myself to do anything to harm her. She's a precious little dog 99.9% of the time.



Pedigree is trash, if you love her feed her some good dog food.


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## pine nut (Feb 3, 2011)

There has been a great deal of good advice on this thread.  Here is mine.  Pups start out for the most part being submissive, but it is programmed into them/us all to try to lead the pack some day.  Humans need to be taught manners so as to get along with each other as EQUALS, respecting each other's rights as adults.  A dog in the family must never be led to think he/she is an equal!  Period!  They do not understand that concept PERIOD!  Your treating them as such is taken, by them, to be a sign of weakness and somebody (YOU) must lead the pack!  Dogs are pack animals and become a member of your family pack.  They have an absolute need for there to be a leader of the pack, without which there is chaos!  If something happens to the pack leader a new one MUST be established and there is chaos until this happens. Even chickens have a peck order!  
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BEAT A DOG TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, but you must make them obey your orders.  We as owners get lazy and somewhat naturally slip into a process of subtle signs to a dog that it is not only equal but superior.  This is a receipe for conflict.  Most of our pets have us at their beck and call, we humanize them and treat them as children ,in short, we spoil them, and are suprised when the situation goes bad.
Begin to turn it around by using a leash and enforcing basic obedience!  As they come into obedience they will begin again, to see you as the pack leader.  Find a way to continue their training process to keep YOU from backsliding, AS A PART OF THEIR BEING IN YOUR HOME FOREVER!.  It may be as simple as requiring them to "sit" before putting their food down.  No sit, no food!  
Do not give meaningless orders you are not in a position to enforce to your dog.  Failure to make them comply, because you are too busy or disinclined is a mistake.  Better to not give the order than to let it be ignored.  You must realize this process and TRAIN yourself before trying to train your dog.  Some people will understand this, and some will never "get it" and it is up to the individual.  It also helps the dog to learn if the entire family is on the same page with this process.  If you have one gushy person who won't embrace the process it makes it much harder to do, for the poor dog is constantly confused.  That person will undo, as you try to do!  I saw this all the time in my practice and in my home!  
Misbehavior kills more dogs than all the diseases combined.  The dog that gets killed in the street when the owner is calling it back is ultimately, a behavioural problem.  Lastly, it is easier to not let this happen than to correct it, but it is not impossible...just impossible for those who don't or won't understand this and commit to the process.  If you see it as "mean or unkind" to do the process, you might as well get rid of the dog before it hurts someone.
One more point, I have often heard, after a discussion like this,"But he's always been so good!  I just can't believe that!  We've never mistreated him.  He's not been abused!".  All of which is true!  However he's had nothing required of him either!!!!!!!  Who among us, who gets his way about EVERYTHING, has ANYTHING to protest??????? It is the same with a dog.  It is only when we humans cross the dog's lines THEY have drawn in the sand that we will see this bad behavior.  Give what I have said ten minutes of openminded thought, and see if it rings true.  Please!  This is free advice and worth everything or nothing.  It is up to you...  Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!   I'm sorry that there are no paragraphs ...I tried!


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## DROPPINEM (Feb 7, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> There are a lot of "what ifs" in life, Leon. And no dog, ever, can be totally trusted. No matter how well it is trained.



Couldnt agree more Nic.......I have a three year old little girl and she knows when to leave the dogs alone(eating,etc)I think part of owning a dog should not only be to teach the dog but also the children around the dog.Because like you said a dog is always a dog and there is not one on this earth that i fully trust...Especially this ole lyin redtick i got


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## huntmore (Feb 7, 2011)

I had an old Cocker Spanial once who started snapping at me when I fed her. My 1 yr old daughter wanted to feed her and she snapped at her. The dog and I went for a little walk I came back, she did not. If they show it, it must be in them. A child losing an eye for life is not worth it in my book. I had a catahoula once big mean dog. I could take food out of his bowl and all he would do is watch. The older they get the harder it is to break them from some things and I think a fighter is breed with that instinct.


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## 270 guy (Feb 7, 2011)

bkl021475 said:


> I wouldn't mess with Lulu's bone anymore!



x2....................


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## BSFR98 (Feb 9, 2011)

Gave my dog a ham bone then took it away thinking he would get chocked.  He walked over to his bed and pee'd all over it.  He's never gotten a bone again. It's been 9 years since.  It's like a drug.  Give some heroin to someone then take it away.  They may bite you too


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## SlappyTomato (Feb 11, 2011)

*+1*



ellaville hunter said:


> i know what i would do



+1.


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