# 50 cal Hawken- where to start?



## J Gilbert (Oct 17, 2011)

Well guys, there seems to be a great wealth of knowledge in this forum, and I'd like some help.  Here's the back story.  

Basically, my grandpa has always been a gun collector, but really only ever hunted birds and small game.  20-25 years ago, he built a TC Hawken kit gun.  He's a perfectionist, and this rifle leaves nothing to be desired as far as quality and finish goes.  He never hunted with it, though he did loan it to a friend many years ago for a hunt or two, but after that it was cleaned and has sat in his gun cabinet since then.

Fast forward to now, he recently sold his house and allowed my cousin and I to split up his guns (except his pistols and shotguns, for protection) between the two of us because he decided to get rid of the gun cabinet and didn't want to have guns sitting in corners at his new place.  One of the guns I got was the Hawken.  I've admired it, but haven't given a ton of thought to even shooting it until now.  The more I think about it, the more I realize how cool it would be to kill a deer or two with the gun that my grandpa put together.

I'm looking for ideas on where to start as far as loads go.  Obviously I'm not looking to get this done before rifle season comes in this weekend, but I would like to get it set up and be able to hunt with it a time or two later this season.

Sorry for being long winded, I appreciate any advice you gentlemen can give me


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## tv_racin_fan (Oct 18, 2011)

Got a place to shoot it nearby? Nice officer told me not to shoot in the back yard no mo. If ya don't have a place we could make a trip to Wilson Shoals.

What sort of supplies do you have?

First stop is the manual: http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Hawken_Manual.pdf

Give me a shout and we can discuss what ya think ya need over coffee.


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## J Gilbert (Oct 18, 2011)

A place to shoot certainly isn't a problem, I haven't ever gad such a conversation with an officer and I live surrounded on 3the sides by family,  I still shoot in the back yard fairly frequently.

As far as supplies I have, he gave me a container of black powder and some 50cal round balls when I got it, I was interested in moving to a more modern type load for simplicity sake if it would be safe in this gun


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## tv_racin_fan (Oct 18, 2011)

More modern type? You mean like pellets and sabots? They typically do not work in that style of rifle.

If ya mean as in Pyrodex or some other black powder substitute, well it works but honestly not as well as true black powder. 

The issue with the subs is they have a much higher ignition temperature. On the modern rifles this is taken care of by using modern primers. You could try a sub and the magnum caps or use a conversion to musket or even modern primers but they aren't any simpler and in the case of the modern primer conversions they are not as simple.

As for the sabots they may work to your satisfaction but typically they wont in that style of rifle because the twist rate of the rifling isn't sufficient to stabilize that style of projectile. A round ball needs very little spin to stabilize and an elongated projectile needs more, in simplistic terms. That rifle might well be a 1in48 twist barrel and thus it could stabilize a conical projectile somewhat or a round ball somewhat. Typically 1in48 is a compromise spin and wont yield the best accuracy for either projectile but in reality it can give as good of accuracy as any when the correct load is worked out. Only way to find out is to test that particular rifle. Typically a sabot wants a 1in28 or so twist, but acceptable accuracy has been had in a 1in48 twisted barrel.

If you really really want to try it out I happen to have all sorts of projectiles from sabots to conicals to round ball in different sizes and some powder of different styles we could try. I bought them wanting to try them out myself but have not tried them since round ball and black powder will do what I ask and more.

By the way I am in Forsyth County a bit west of Cumming out 20 off Doc Bramblett Road.

In my opinion if ya want simple you don't want a muzzle loaded firearm... 

If you want to simplify the loading of a muzzle loaded firearm there are a few things you can do. 

You can measure powder loads at home and use speed loader tubes so you do not need measure on the range or hunting. You can use a loading block so that you have ball already patched in a handy block that all you need do is short start it.


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## J Gilbert (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd definitely like to meet up when I can make the time, I'm actually in Cherokee off County Line, but have a Cumming address, so you're only 4 or 5 miles from me at most.  I'll be in the woods all weekend, maybe we can figure out a time next week to grab some coffee and get some ideas rolling, my schedule is a little hectic with school and work but we can make something happen.  I appreciate the help


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## Desert Rat (Oct 24, 2011)

*TCA .45 Hawken*

Sorry, didn't mean to butt in.


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## trial&error (Oct 24, 2011)

send bkbigkid a pm and he can churn you out a string.  I don't recall ever seeing precut wading for the 45 specifically, except the fiber ones for pistols.  

Just remember desert rat the pyrodex is measured by volume not actual weight.


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## Desert Rat (Oct 25, 2011)

Never mind.


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## SASS249 (Oct 25, 2011)

Best traditional shop is Deer Creek in Marietta.
By the way, 80 grains of FFG in a .45 is a pretty heavy load and not what most people use when just wanting to punch paper.


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## Desert Rat (Oct 25, 2011)

SASS249 said:


> Best traditional shop is Deer Creek in Marietta.
> By the way, 80 grains of FFG in a .45 is a pretty heavy load and not what most people use when just wanting to punch paper.



...


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## TBear2 (Oct 25, 2011)

I've built, hunted and competed with M/L's for 35yrs.

Don't blame you for wanting to hunt with grandpa's Hawken. I recommend 90 grains of FF black powder (90 grains of Pyrodex would be a secondary choice) with a .490 patched round ball. The early TC's were the better ones (before mass production). If the best load is determined .... I've seen these guns produce 1 hole groups at 50 yds. Of course that's in the hands of a pro usually with after market sites and good light and wind conditions. This gun is most effective at 100 yds. or less. I recommend you site in at 25 yds. (benched you should acheive a quarter size group easily). Then shoot some at 50 & 100 yds. to see where you're at. Recommend a LIGHTLY moistened cleaning patch between shots when practicing. Please make sure you understand how important it is to properly clean a M/L before you do any shooting. Lastly... I would hunt with it a few times, clean it up real good and put it away. The early TC's are not of high $  value, but they are hard to find in good condition and will increase in value.


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## SgtPat (Oct 26, 2011)

Desert Rat said:


> Thanks for the info on Deer Creek.
> 
> I'll just have to play with it and see what makes me happy at 100 yards, or more. It'll be RS. FFg is hard to find here and people on public ranges get irritated about too much smoke.



Pyrodex smokes just as much as black powder.  I would suggest trying 3F black powder in 50 grains to start with, if using a round ball, and work up from there.


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## Desert Rat (Oct 26, 2011)

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Hawken_Manual.pdf


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## rustvyper (Oct 26, 2011)

I have another suggestion for powder - blackhorn 209. It's designed for 209 inline ignition, but it goes just fine out of my 2 no11 muzzleloaders with the correct load.
The load: 5gr of pyrodex down the bore followed by 75gr of blackhorn.
The pros:
- super easy clean up & virtually no corrosion which is a huge plus out of sidelocks which you can't access the breech.
- no smoke to obscure the shot
- outstanding accuracy

Cons:
- takes longer to load when you have to measure out 5gr of one bottle & then pick up another bottle. This is a huge drawback for hunting. However, I've never had the need or time to reload for a follow up shot when deer hunting. 

I've put about 60 shots down my inline no11 & my sidelock. I've shot both standard no11s & magnums & never had a ftf or delayed ignition.


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## Desert Rat (Oct 29, 2011)

Oops.


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## Desert Rat (Nov 14, 2011)

It's a good thing I have a lot of help locally.


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## TreeFrog (Nov 15, 2011)

I shoot a CVA Hawken in .50 cal.  I load 90 grains of Pyrodex for roundballs with buttered patches and 100 grains of Pyrodex when shooting my buffalo bullets.


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## trial&error (Nov 15, 2011)

This thread originally started with a 50 cal hawken question, it's since been hijacked and we have posts about 45 cal intermixed, some info may confuse others needlessly.  If you wanna talk about the 45cal, please open a new thread.


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## Anvil Head (Nov 16, 2011)

If you plan to hunt serious with the TC-50, use the TC flatbased conicals. They were designed well, don't require a patch only lube and are very accurate in the TC. Patched RB's are so so, work but never acheived the same tight pattern as the depth of rifling is a bit shallow for patched RB. Also the conicals worked well on top of Pyrodex (yuck......I'm more a traditionalist and use only BP).
TC's have a hooked breech plug and are very easy to clean using a small bucket of hot soapy water and your ramrod with the right tip.

Start with the manual's suggested loads and work your way up or down to reach the sweet spot for each type of load. Conicals will be different than RB, different lubes shoot different, different patching on RB, shoot different........etc. Find the one that works best for you and your gun then tune it from there.

(3.5" grouping at 25 yds is not ......... well, you'll never hunt squirrels successfully <;p)


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## Desert Rat (Nov 16, 2011)

Anvil Head said:


> (3.5" grouping at 25 yds is not ......... well, you'll never hunt squirrels successfully <;p)



Better not say what I use for squirrels. I already got in trouble for keeping a TCH 50 thread going with a TCH 45.
Thanks for the info on the string T&E, now I'll get out of your hair.


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## trial&error (Nov 20, 2011)

not a problem for me just hate for someone to try learning this on their own and not notice the topic change and hurt themselves.  by all means there's plenty of 45 cal shooters out there with specific load data info for a separate thread.


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