# Question?



## coastga (Sep 29, 2004)

How can people on this site and all over the world call themselves Christians and never go to Church? I understand missing once and a while but there are people who claim to be Christians and they never attend Church. Christ said he is the Head and we are the body. If the Body is meeting at Church, how can you be a part of the body and stay home? HMMMMMMMMMM


----------



## Handgunner (Sep 29, 2004)

Speaking for myself only, I believe the "church" is where you feel most at "home".  I've got my reasons for not going to church -- something that I hope to get back into one day.  But right now, my "church" is wherever I want to talk to God.  Whether it be in a deer stand, creek bank, middle of a dove field, or just riding down the dirt road late in the evening.

It says in the Bible "where two or more are gathered in my name, I am also there"... My wife and I pray together, alone, at every meal, and so on. 

I believe the Lord hears our prayers, just as he would if I were at church.


----------



## mpowell (Sep 29, 2004)

it sure is easier to lead a Christian life if you are an active member of a church body.  you have others to share your love of the Lord and your struggles with.  however, going to church DOES not make you a Christian by any means.

you could also ask how so many churchgoers, who are there every time the doors are open, can call themselves Christians because their actions outside of church might not be so Godly?

IMHO, and i've experienced this personally, i find many churches i've attended are WAY too judgmental.  that's God's job!  and, the gossip in some churches is WAY over the top.  to the point it turns off non-Christians and Christians alike.

having said all this, there's nothing like finding a good church home that you feel comfortable with and that is enjoyable to attend.


----------



## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 29, 2004)

> you could also ask how so many churchgoers, who are there every time the doors are open, can call themselves Christians because their actions outside of church might not be so Godly?


I couldn't agree more.  Being a Christian is not just a Sunday thing, it's an everday, all the time thing.  I cringe when I see someone who says they are a Christian but I hear GD this, GD that, F this, F that coming out of their mouths.
As far as going to church, well, I could quote Scripture after Scripture that tells us that we should meet regularly with a body of believers to praise and worship.  It isn't a requirement, but I don't see how anyone can grow in their Christian life without it.


----------



## JBowers (Sep 29, 2004)

coastga said:
			
		

> How can people on this site and all over the world call themselves Christians and never go to Church? I understand missing once and a while but there are people who claim to be Christians and they never attend Church. Christ said he is the Head and we are the body. If the Body is meeting at Church, how can you be a part of the body and stay home? HMMMMMMMMMM


I understand your question. It can be turned around too! I have experienced many people who call themsleves Christians and go to Church religiously, yet their behavior leaves alot to be questioned. I equate it to a bumper sticker I read the other day that said, "The Religious Right Is Neither". Not that I think such is collectively true, but based on actions it does have individual substance. No doubt there representative individuals from both perspectives that share similar actions and vice-versa.

I don't attend Church much anymore, nor do I find it necessary for me to go to Church in order for me to communicate with God and exercise my Christian faith. Nature is also God's cathedral and I feel closest to God and to my faith in that environment. For me, being a Christain requires faith in the Creator and requires an individual to practice Christian values. Visiting a physical, man-made building once a week is not a requirement.

Over my years of religiously attending Church, I saw, heard and experienced too much hypocrasy and it turned me off. Listening to leaders talk about how to treat and love your fellow man and then turn around and demonize our fellow man and encourage it among the congregation. This is not the Christian value I was taught or that I have faith in. Over my years, I watched it get worse and worse and then found that I can have a better relationship with the Lord through my own means that do not require attending a structure.

It's not just Church that I experienced this either.  I am an ASA Softball umpire and have been for about 7 years.  I have umpired in numerous leagues, including Church leagues.  And maybe I have had the bad luck of getting all the worst, but I can say that when it comes to Christian behavior the league one would expect the best from has the been the one with the least.

For those of us that feel the need to attend Church, then so be it and for those of us that don't, that is fine, too! Church doesn't mean we are or aren't Christians, nor does it mean anyone of us are less a Christian than the other.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

I agree with Delton.  I have nothing against going to Church if the one you attend has God in it but I attended many that do not.  Further, my experiences with a church is if you do not believe as they do you will be looked down on.  You could not have some of the discussions a church that we have here without being condemend!   You coud certainly grow in your christian life in a church or you could become miserable in your church and turn totally against christianity.  I am sure there are some good churchs out there but IMO many have move to far away from God and focus on things that don't matter.  Now that I think about it, and I mean this sincerely because I do learn so many things here, Woodys is more of a church to me than any I have been to.  I am taliking about the "spiritual forum" obviously.

Thanks to this forum, I at least talk to others about the Bible more than I use to.


----------



## PWalls (Sep 29, 2004)

If you have read some of the earlier posts, I stated I am a new Christian.

I couldn't imagine not going to Church regularly (Wednesday night, Sunday morning and night, at least). Maybe I have a new passion that is driving me, but I love my new church and feel loved there. Great bunch of Christians who all helped me in my decision to give my life to Christ.

My church is also good for my family with the activites that they have (children's choir, women's classes for the wife, and a great men's group). My church helps my family and myself spiritually a great deal.

I think we should all go to a church and I hope everyone can find one that they feel comfortable with and one in which they can continue to grow in spirit.

Amazingly, this is the first year that I haven't hunted on Sundays. Also, I take a small Gideon's bible to the stand with me to read on while I am sitting there and communing with God and his creation. I am truly loving it.


----------



## Keith48 (Sep 29, 2004)

Sounds like too many of you guys have not been to a church, but rather a social gathering with a Christian-sounding name on the door!


----------



## GAGE (Sep 29, 2004)

I am with Delton on this one!   I personally attend church twice a year.   Every Sunday that I am out enjoying what God created I say thanks. I am not the most spiritual person and I belive that wherever you choose to give thanks so be it!   I just do not think you have to attend a mult-million dollar, tax free establishment to acheive this and Sunday is also one of the only days in my business that I am off.   I could go on, but really no need!    This is the way it works for me!   

Randy...very well put!


----------



## Jeff Phillips (Sep 29, 2004)

I attend very regularly except for deer season. October and November find me in the woods. 

Church is a great place to fellowship with other believers, learn about, and serve our Lord. But true growth as a Christian happens during prayer, daily quite time, personal study, etc. I will never question someone's faith just because they do not attend regular services! 

I can truly worship wherever I find myself.


----------



## mpowell (Sep 29, 2004)

as i said in my previous post on this thread, i do feel a great church home is an outstanding thing to find. a supportive church can certainly help one's spiritual growth.

however, i think our PERSONAL relationship with the Lord ultimately defines our standing with God and our salvation.  not how many times we attended church through the years.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

Actually this post shows why I have aproblem with most churchs.  I am accused of not being a christian because I am not in church every Sunday.  Why not welcome me when I do show up instead of accusing me and looking down on me because I do not!  That is not a very christain attitude if you ask me.

You don't knwo what is in my heart.  Don't judge and you won't be judged!


----------



## coastga (Sep 29, 2004)

Many of you are confused on what the word of God says. First, You suppose to worship God at all times----24/7. David said, he worship God in his early rising, in the noon time hour and the evening hours, then he realized that was not enough and said, LORD let praises continully flow from my mouth. SO, Church is not the only a place to go to worship GOd, the Bible plainly tells us That! Why then should you go to church? The Bible tells us too        ( Hebrews 10:25). In addition, the Bible gives us examples to follow. The Christians in the early Church found themselves in Church when possible.

Second, in the true Church (not a denomination), those from all walks of life that are blood bought children of GOD, should be in unity of Spirit. A house that is divided can not stand. Sunday Morning the body is in Church and the little finger is out in the woods deer hunting----I think not!

Always remember anything contary to GOD's Word is ------------SIN. 

The Bible tells us "Let ever man work out his salvation with fear and trembling"
I hope that is what you guys are doing who are not showing up in Church.

****Last question, You Guys that are not going to Church, where are you paying your TITHES?????**********


Coastga


----------



## GeauxLSU (Sep 29, 2004)

*We are children whether we like to acknowledge it or not.*

We've discussed this on the old boards.  "Keep holy the Sabbath" means different things apparently to different people.  For some, it means to formerly attend church on a particular day, to others, well I'm not sure but they can elaborate.  
I do believe Christ calls us to a church.  I do believe there are some that are definitely counterproductive due to a number of issues, hypocrisy and distraction not the least of them.  Simply don't go to THAT church or rise above the 'noise' and take (and more importantly GIVE) what you are supposed to and it will still be infinitely rewarding.  
Though you may not feel you 'need' it, since when do children know what they 'need'?  If you do not identify yourself as a 'child of God' then perhaps that analogy will not work for you.  
I am ashamed to admit that many a Sunday morning I find it a bit of a chore to get up and get ready and make service but it's amazing, each time after the service is over, I'm VERY glad I did.  Now why is that you figure?  
Christians in my generation alone have gone to incredible strides to justify an overall 'relaxation' of the obligations of a Christian lifestyle.  I'm sure we can all name several, but regularly attending church is one of them.  
I would NEVER 'condemn' someone (that's His place not ours) for not attending church, but I'd sure pray that they would consider it.    
It's amazing how much time we spend 'studying' really unimportant things (Like hunting for example, here on this site for example) but how we look for ways OUT, of formally, in a group, 'studying' (service) the thing that is obviously infinitely more important than anything else.   : 
Again, not condemning, just trying to express my thoughts on why I do go.  And believe me, there are PLENTY of faults in my church (as there must be in any).  That however does not give me an excuse to 'write it off'.  *We should all be very thankful God does not use that logic to judge us!*  
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil


----------



## mpowell (Sep 29, 2004)

well put, phil.  as you state, all any Christian can do is pray for each other.


----------



## JBowers (Sep 29, 2004)

> Many of you are confused on what the word of God says.


Only if you judge us by what your opinion of what the Bible says.



> Always remember anything contary to GOD's Word is ------------SIN.


Including your treatment and judgement of us "non-attenders."  Thank you for reiterating my concern and point!



> Last question, You Guys that are not going to Church, where are you paying your TITHES?????


Money will not buy your place in eternity and I am fully aware of what the Bible suggest about Tithing.  Will you now judge my Christian worth based on tithings?


----------



## Al33 (Sep 29, 2004)

*Currently, not attending regularly*

My having to work on Sundays is not an excuse. I could attend at other denominational churches that have services on Sunday and Wednesday nights, and will likely do so soon.

One point I would like to make about attending church, and that is to go to worship God. This should be priority one. If we can stay focused on this one reason for going, all the negative reasons for not going will seem insignificant.

Don't want to get off the subject and do not really want you answer so much as to provoke a thought, but for those who do not attend regularly, do you still tithe somewhere?

Oooops, didn't mean to restate a question which had already been asked. I type sloooooow!   

Al


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

I know it is not really my problem since as long as I pay my tithes I am doing what God says but I think the real question is what is the Church doing with the tithes that I give them!  Maybe God does not look at it this way but I help and contribute quite a bit to the needs of the people of my community and country which is where my tithes should be going anyway.  I hope He sees that my tithes go where I think he intended them even if they do not go through a church first!

As I look back on my post it really appears that I am Church Bashing.  Well I'll go ahead and say it.........I think most of the Churchs in this country have strayed from God's teachings.  I don't argree with them and I will not support them.


----------



## JBowers (Sep 29, 2004)

> *We should all be very thankful God does not use that logic to judge us!*


If He used logic, we would all fail.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

Maybe a more applicable question is what is a church?  Is it a building or a place where several of us are gathered in his name?


----------



## Derek (Sep 29, 2004)

I go to church because everytime I walk through the doors I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit there.  I am 25 years old and have attended the same church my whole life.  I am an elder in my church.  I believe that he has put me in this church and keeps me there for a reason.  I believe everything happens for a reason, whether we realize it or not.

I have a question...........if you do not attend a church, where does your 10% tithe and offerings go???  I am a big believer in tithing.  I feel that if you do not give at least 10%, then you are stealing from the kingdom of God.

I follow the 10-10-80 rule.  10% to the kingdom, 10% saved for yourself, 80% to live off of.

Another .02 cents worth


----------



## coastga (Sep 29, 2004)

Church is not a building. Many Churchs exist in other countries that do not have a building. A Church is where the Body of Believers meet. Is everbody that attends church a Christian?-----------Absolutly not!

Keep your eyes on Christ, not the few bad apples in the bunch.

JBOWERS,
I'm not condeming you. The quote you missed in my previous post is that, YOU have to work out your on salvation with fear and trembling. If the HOLY SPIRIT does not convict you for not going to Church neither do I........... 

During the great White throne judgement when Christ Judges ALL for good and bad, we will be judged based on the word of GOD and how our heart and deeds line up. It is not how we feel about things it is what the word of GOD says---period. Let ever man be a liar but GOD be TRUE.

Our hearts must be soft and plyable----Break up your fallow ground. Also a broken and contrite heart, God loves and hears.

Let your heart be open to hear what the Spirit of God tells you. IF you are not convicted of not going to CHurch, stay home. I neither convict you.


----------



## Randy (Sep 29, 2004)

This brings me to another question.


----------



## Handgunner (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm going to try and keep this short and sweet.

I believe God judges us on what is in our heart.  That, and the fact that we accept his Son as our Savior and truly believe in our heart that He died for our sins.

I have never denied not believing in the Lord, or rejected conversation about Him.  I've spread the word to those who want to hear it, and have sang His praises when He has helped me and mine, and when He hasn't.

In my life I've often questioned Him and His reasons, but I've never stopped believing in Him.

Having said that... I do not think that my not going to church is going to stop me from entering the Kingdom.  God knows my reasons, and I believe is understanding of that.  I can only hope and go on faith with that.

As for Tithes.  I'll have to echo JBowers on that.  I'm fully aware of what the Bible says on the subject, but not for a minute do I think that my not paying Tithes is going to keep me from Heaven.


----------



## stumpman (Sep 29, 2004)

Mpowell your right there are a lot of CEO's that come to our church oh thats christmas and easter only ceo but there are a lot of people that go all the time and on monday dont live a good christian life even some deacons in church like that i attend regular or did having issues with the preacher over some items been looking for another church but its hard to find a good church especially in a small town theres not that many to choose and the whole family has to be happy well enough rambling i dont need to get started but find a church where you are happy and attend regular.


----------



## garndawg (Sep 29, 2004)

I'll throw my two-cents in:

Q: Should you go to church?

A: Yup.  But you are to constantly test the fellowship to be sure they are pursuing Christ and not placing importance on anything other than Christ.  Plenty of churches out there are interested in things other than being bonded ever closer to Christ.  That said, please be careful not to be too proud.  Paul spelled out pretty specifally the 'testing' that is to be done, and how.  It's not something we can just decide we do/don't like.  If you find yourself, in the testing, being more interested in being Right than being humble, you've probably lost the focus.

Corinthians I and 2 is all about Paul trying to help a proud church.

Q: Why do I go to church?

A: First, because I feel that God has commanded me to pursue Him.  And that's the primary place to do it.  I've got good, biblical teaching that I can test against Scripture.  A pastor and SS teachers who force me to learn and grow.

Secondly, maybe even more importantly, because I'm surrounded by fellow believers and I have faith in them to hold me accountable.  Which is, in my humble opinion, what I need most.  Leave me to my own devices, and I can figure a way to justify whatever I want.  But put me around a body of Believers, and I'm held accountable.

That's my thoughts...


----------



## GAGE (Sep 29, 2004)

Several years ago on Easter morning, I spent a beautiful sunrise service in Butts Cty.   It was just after 7:30 when I killed those 2 turkeys with 1 shot!   I spent that morning out in gods creation as I do whenever I am able and to me it doesn't get any better than that!   My tithes are currently going to my two amazing children as well as my wife.   I do not lose sleep over this and hopefully no one else does either,  this Sunday, God willing, I will be attending my outdoor church in Elbert Cty. if anyone would like to attend!   Will my actions keep me out of heaven,   I do not think so!    I will do what I can, when I can and for who I can, but that is just me!


----------



## stumpman (Sep 29, 2004)

Gage i would love to attend if i can use a gun dont shoot a bow elbert cty sounds to far away for me though is that near elberton GA?do what makes you happy as long as you ask god into your life where ever he leads you is where you should be.


----------



## GAGE (Sep 29, 2004)

Stump,

   My club is about 7 miles outside of Elberton, 600 acres of mostly beautiful land.    I appreciate your thoughts so feel free to join the congregation sometime!


----------



## CAL (Sep 29, 2004)

JBowers first post is exactly as I feel.In my town there is so much turmoil and power struggle till I lost interest.People seem to go there to see what someone else is wearing and who is in control!

Tithing,read Matthew 6,1-4,Jesus plainly tells how to do your alms.This I know works.Hard to fix something that is working!!

 Would someone show me in the Bible where Jesus won anyone over to Christianity by finding fault with them.

I can't tell anyone what they need to do.I can only tell what works for me!I really wish I had a church home.There is so much I would like to participate in and be a part of.

If a person is a Christain,he doesn't have to tell people.I find it is written all over that person.My ole Dad said what you are,everyone knows.It shows on you every day.


----------



## HuntinTom (Sep 29, 2004)

*I Think the Many Posts...*

Are a good example of our culture getting so caught up in the _Going TO Church..._, that perhaps we've lost site of _Being THE Church_ , that is, The Body of the Living Christ - His hands, feet, eyes, heart - His very presence in our world...  For me, going TO church simply builds me up along with the other believers to be "Jesus with skin on" in my home, work, school, places of recreation - In my world...  I extend a formal invite to any of you good brothers (and sisters if any read this) to be my guest one weekend - I'd cherish the worship and fellowship with any of you anytime


----------



## Dudley Do-Wrong (Sep 29, 2004)

A lot of excellent posts.  There are many good reasons to attend church, many of them mentioned.  Sadly, as it happens with many, some here have had bad experiences in a church which has turned them off.  I ask you not to give up.  Yes, it is true that there are many churches that do not preach the Word of God, and some that dabble in the Word but it's just a Sunday thing for them.  By the same token, there are many good Bible believing churches.  I worry about people who just want to have a little religion but do not know what it means to have a real relationship with Jesus Christ.

I would just like to emphasize one major point,  it is not enough to believe in God, Scripture says that even the demons believe and tremble.  What I'm saying is that there are many who know/believes God exists but they do not have a covenant relationship with Him.  No, you do not have to attend church to have this relationship, but very rarely can one grow as a Christian without the loving support and discipleship that a good Bible believing church provides.

Myself, I need church, I need the strength and love of others around me, I need to be held accountable, I need to continue to grow or I am liable to slip into my sin nature.  

I don't condemn any of you that have chosen not to attend church.  At one time, I did not attend for many of the same reasons that some of you have stated.  I said that I felt closer to God when I was out in his creation, there are hypocrits in church, etc,.  But I found out that church really isn't what I get out of it, church really isn't for me, it's for God.  All these things I get out of church are the things God has blessed me with.


----------



## Todd E (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm passing these on so maybe this info can help any of you with the questions you have.

Why should I attend church?

The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes the importance of local assemblies. In fact, it was the pattern of Paul's ministry to establish local congregations in the cities where he preached the gospel. Hebrews 10:24-25 commands every believer to be a part of such a local body and reveals why this is necessary. 
"And let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near" (Hebrews 10:24-25).

It is only in the local body to which one is committed that there can be the level of intimacy that is required for carefully stimulating fellow-believers "to love and good deeds." And it is only in this setting that we can encourage one another. 

The New Testament also teaches that every believer is to be under the protection and nurture of the leadership of the local church. These godly men can shepherd the believer by encouraging, admonishing, and teaching. Hebrews 13:7 and 17 help us to understand that God has graciously granted accountability to us through godly leadership.

Furthermore, when Paul gave Timothy special instructions about the public meetings, he said "Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching" (1 Timothy 4:13). Part of the emphasis in public worship includes these three things: hearing the Word, being called to obedience and action through exhortation, and teaching. It is only in the context of the local assembly that these things can most effectively take place.

Acts 2:42 shows us what the early church did when they met together: "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." They learned God's Word and the implications of it in their lives; they joined to carry out acts of love and service to one another; they commemorated the Lord's death and resurrection through the breaking of bread; and they prayed. Of course, we can do these things individually, but God has called us into His body-the church is the local representation of that worldwide-body-and we should gladly minister and be ministered to among God's people.

Active local church membership is imperative to living a life without compromise. It is only through the ministry of the local church that a believer can receive the kind of teaching, accountability, and encouragement that is necessary for him to stand firm in his convictions. God has ordained that the church provide the kind of environment where an uncompromising life can thrive.

A question to ask ourselves....

If I am not attending church, am I having a daily time in which I spend studying and meditating on God's Word and prayer?? Is it possible that my abscence on Sunday is a reflection on my weekly absence from God's Word??


----------



## Todd E (Sep 29, 2004)

I could sum up the idea of my giving of tithes through the writings of Paul in II Corinthians 9:6-7

First and foremost.....I don't give to get. I return to God what we has provided my family with. He gave me a job, the strength and skills to do it, and meets our needs through this. I personally feel that if I do not give back to God what He has given me.....I am robbing from Him. By doing this(tithing), I am storing up treasures in Heaven...not here on earth. 

We should each have the attitude of Christ in all that we do.


----------



## Throwback (Sep 30, 2004)

NONE of this is meant to offend anyone NOR is it aimed at any one individual on this board.

Some of ya'll make some compelling reasons to NOT go to church, but I see that most of you say you are Christians ( I don't know you so I will assume you are), so I would like to see some scripture that backs up "I don't have to go to church".  : 

If the church you were attending didn't suit you, find another one. It's not that hard. How far do you drive to work? How far to the hunt camp or lake? Why not drive that far to find a good church that loves you and cares for you? It sounds like some expect Christians to be perfect examples. guess what, we're ALL human. The disciples were not perfect, Paul was not perfect, Jesus is the only one that was perfect, so if we are looking for humans that are perfect before we are happy, we will be looking forever. 


When the church is mentioned in the bible, it isn't talking about a building, but a GROUP of people. 
Ephesians 2:19-22

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. 

Jesus went to Church--or rather synagogue-

LUke 4:16

14Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15He taught in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. 
16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.


Where would Jesus be when His church (the bride of Christ) was meeting? Attending and leading the service or hunting/fishing/golfing, etc?

AS far as tithing, I'm with Todd E. I give because I love the Lord. I own NOTHING, I am merely a keeper of the possessions god has blessed me with. 

I have noticed that when I or someone I know who is a believer stops going we stop all REAL affilitation with God. That's my personal experience anyway. 

T


----------



## Jeff Raines (Sep 30, 2004)

Here is my take on the subject of church attendance.

If you are a member of a particular church,then you should be there every time you can.
Before you join a church,get a copy of the bylaws.Read and understand them,if you do not agree,then don't join.


----------



## tmooney (Sep 30, 2004)

*Church attendance*

I've recently began attending regulary within the last 3-4 months and gave my life back to god and let him be the skipper of this here ship. I've been in church all my life and was raised as a Deacon's son. My father and I have always been at church every chance we could and we also were hunters. We were ridiculed numerous times for leaving the hunting club 2.5 hours away from home on a Saturday evening to be at church the following Sunday morning. We missed church at times and did not feel as though we were not in the will of God or in the wrong. With all of that being said, whats in a mans heart is what matters and with any christian, only God knows one's own heart. If it were up to us to ridicule someone over not attending, then I think we'd be trying to play God and he doesn't like that. Let God do his job and deal with those that may abuse missing services. I think everyone should be concerned over allowing God to influence all of their decisions instead of letting their decisions influence the God in others.

-Terry


----------

