# 4 Missing at Sea........



## Parker Phoenix (Mar 2, 2009)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9280504/Coast-Guard-searching-for-missing-NFL-players?MSNHPHMA

Pray for these guys. It don't look good.


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## crackerdave (Mar 2, 2009)

Prayers sent.I can only imagine how it would feel to be them.

I'm baffled by the way the news people are not mentioning the "other" two guys.Are these things only newsworthy if a ballplayer is involved???

I didn't read the link,Parker - it takes forever on dial-up because of all the pictures - but I have seen this incident on the TV news and haven't heard a word about the other two guys.


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## stev (Mar 2, 2009)

50 miles in a 21 ft boat ????

I hope they are found .prayers sent .


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## Redbow (Mar 2, 2009)

I hope they find these guys, but 50 miles offshore in a 21 foot boat, not me !

Prayers for their safe return !


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## The Captain (Mar 2, 2009)

Im praying too, I have been in that situation, the sea's can build real fast on you. 21 ft boat and 7ft seas don't mix.


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## getcha1 (Mar 2, 2009)

*Epirb*

I would like to know if these guys had an EPIRB or SPOT.
I am already shocked that 2 ball players were out in a 21' boat to begin with, but to be without proper safety equipment is unimaginable. We pray they will be found.


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## crackerdave (Mar 2, 2009)

Many commercial boats have a plaque in the wheelhouse that says:
"Oh Lord - Thy sea is so great,and my ship is so small."


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## Parker Phoenix (Mar 2, 2009)

When they left the seas were 2 to 4's, that afternoon building to 5 to 7's. Overnight when the front passed through the seas grew to 14 foot. Now 14 footers in the Gulf is no way like the 14 foot swells in the Atlantic, 14's in the gulf is way worse. I to have a 22 foot offshore boat and I'll go out to 35 miles, but I'd never go out in 2 to 4's in the first place, I also carry a SPOT with me. 

4 guys that weigh that much can do a lot to a boat. I also heard it was a  boat made by Everglades, which someone on the news said was unsinkable. I have never seen an unsinkable boat. I'm praying for these guys, but I don't think  a lot of common sense was used here.

60 degree water temps are gonna be next to impossible to survive, I hope this doesn't end up a recovery instead of a rescue.


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## RUTTNBUCK (Mar 2, 2009)

Parker Phoenix said:


> When they left the seas were 2 to 4's, that afternoon building to 5 to 7's. Overnight when the front passed through the seas grew to 14 foot. Now 14 footers in the Gulf is no way like the 14 foot swells in the Atlantic, 14's in the gulf is way worse. I to have a 22 foot offshore boat and I'll go out to 35 miles, but I'd never go out in 2 to 4's in the first place, I also carry a SPOT with me.
> 
> 4 guys that weigh that much can do a lot to a boat. I also heard it was a  boat made by Everglades, which someone on the news said was unsinkable. I have never seen an unsinkable boat. I'm praying for these guys, but I don't think  a lot of common sense was used here.
> 
> 60 degree water temps are gonna be next to impossible to survive, I hope this doesn't end up a recovery instead of a rescue.



I was going to say sounds like they had more money than smarts

Even though it was only 2-4 foot seas when they left they should have looked at wave height predictions before leaving I think NOAA does this and they are pretty accurate

Like you I hope for the best for them but truly don't think that will be the outcome

Even though the boat may be unsinkable that just means it has built in floatation. A capsized boat in 14 foot seas would be awfully hard to hold on to. the roughest I have ever seen was 5-7 foot I couldn't even imagine 14 foot


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 2, 2009)

It does not look good for these fellows.

Prayers said.


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## Fishead (Mar 2, 2009)

I've been out 50 miles in a 22 footer but I had my head up NOAA's butt every day for a couple of weeks before going for out that one day.  And when I did, everybody new the coordinates I was heading to (plus left a note with the area I was fishing on the windshield of my truck at the ramp with the time I'd be back).  There were much more prep than this in case anyone ever considers such a venture.  You just can't be too careful.


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## Pudge (Mar 2, 2009)

one survivor has been found.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Mar 2, 2009)

The Old man of the sea doesn't allow for errors in judgement.
I do hope and pray for a miracle though.


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## brantley3312 (Mar 2, 2009)

they found one guy... and he told the coast gaurd that the other 3 guys were still together at 2am this morning and they were alive but they drifted away from the boat...


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## Parker Phoenix (Mar 2, 2009)

Glad they found the one, hope the others are found alive. Please, always use an epirb or SPOT when going offshore, and always check NOAA.


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## shortround1 (Mar 2, 2009)

sounds like am accident waiting to happen, one found, hope they find the other!


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## RUTTNBUCK (Mar 2, 2009)

When I saw the news footage it was just like I imagined. one guy sitting on an upturned hull of a boat hanging on to the foot of an outboard motor

the other three separated.............

As some one else said "the old man of the sea does not allow for errors in judgment"

One can only hope for the best for the other three


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## getcha1 (Mar 3, 2009)

*Spot*

Parker
How do you like the SPOT? I am impressed with the device, but I don't know anyone who has one. 
I am still awestruck how many people go out with nothing.
Not me! The price for this equipment is peanuts compared to all of the fishing gear we buy.


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## shortround1 (Mar 3, 2009)

getcha1, who said they had fishing equiptment?with one still alive we may get to see the paul harvy, rest of the story. i may be wrong, i have in the past, but i think they were running out into international waters for a pick up.(no truck). since it was to be out and back and maybe retrieving a substantial load, left gear back at the marina. and i am not talking about getting a pitbull!


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## MudDucker (Mar 3, 2009)

I hate it for these families, but the truth is that what these guys did was just plain stupid.  To head out in a boat that is at best marginal for a 50 mile trip and then to go when the weather is predicted to rapidly deteriorate into truly dangerous conditions in that boat is just crazy.  I've run all over the gulf and the Atlantic and I can tell you, I would not have even thought about making that trip under those conditions in that size boat.  The Sea is not a forgiving mistress.  She will gobble you up without so much as a tear.


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## RUTTNBUCK (Mar 3, 2009)

Saw on the news this morning that a friend of one of the missing talked to him before he went out 

And the missing Corey Smith stated to him that he thought the boat was too small for that kind of trip and he didn't want to go


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 3, 2009)

The everglades 211cc is very similar to the edgewater222cc that I used to run. Same hull designer/builder Doherty.
That boat is too short to handle 7' or above seas and top heavy to boot. Open transom in the rear and horrible things happen in rough seas. My prayers are out for them.


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## mauser64 (Mar 3, 2009)

Just heard they are calling off the search tonite at 6:30. Reports said the missing were wearing life vests. Can't figger why they have not been seen.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 3, 2009)

They have found an inflatable life vest-empty- and a regular life vest-empty- and a jacket-empty. (Reportedly)

I think they know more than they are telling the public.


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## livetohunt (Mar 3, 2009)

mauser64 said:


> Just heard they are calling off the search tonite at 6:30. Reports said the missing were wearing life vests. Can't figger why they have not been seen.



Is there alot of sharks in that area?


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## Fishead (Mar 3, 2009)

*Fishing or picking up*



shortround1 said:


> getcha1, who said they had fishing equiptment?with one still alive we may get to see the paul harvy, rest of the story. i may be wrong, i have in the past, but i think they were running out into international waters for a pick up.(no truck). since it was to be out and back and maybe retrieving a substantial load, left gear back at the marina. and i am not talking about getting a pitbull!



Round1
I was kinda thinking the same thing earlier but I saw an interview with a local Tampa guide that had the boat owner out just 2 days ago and he said that he was invited to go on that trip with them....for fishing.  He showed some pics of the boat owner out with him catching reds.
I don't think an invitation would have been extended if the  plan was to do a pickup.  JMO


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## dapper dan (Mar 3, 2009)

If there is one thing to come of this, its that more people should by an EPIRB. Oh yeah they need to register it too. Registration is free. I used to be on a patrol boat out of ST. Pete and that place can be like clockwork for a storm. The best thing to do is give a family a sailplan. Tell your family where you are going. If you have a lat and long, give them that. The CG will do a trackline search and the probablility of detection is far better than saying they are going off shore. We just had 3 people drown up here going home to Sandy Island and they didn't have life jackets on. Try swimming in a strong current. Heck Michael Phelps couldn't make it from the pilot docks to the cg station in tybee with a strong ebb tide. If you go that far out. Get an EPIRB, have a whistle on your life jacket. Keep flares readily accessable and not down in the bottom of the boat with everything piled on top. Wear your kill switch. And put your life jacket on when you are hauling butt. I'm done with my rant. Hopefully people all over the states will see this as a wake up call. The sea is less forgiving than a bookie.


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## ddb (Mar 3, 2009)

here's some good info from Pat McGriff's monthly fishing report related to the topic.  Pat's a guide working out of Keaton Beach Florida
"You want what? 

Keaton Beach Fishing Report March 6th

Dang it man.....not much to say except "in like a Lion out like a Lamb"   ..March that is..

I sure do hope the W-I-N-D will quit blowing by Saturday 'cause I figure there will be somewhere around 200+ boats fishing in Keaton by then.....

With the recent terrible news of the three men lost at sea in the Tampa area last Saturday...perhaps it is time to remind folks just how dangerous it is to go out in the Gulf of Mexico.

It is an open Gulf.....connected to the rest of the Oceans of the World and it can kill you in a myriad of ways.

Dangerous waves are something most people think happen on the Atlantic, especially if they have never been offshore in the grassflats region of the Big Bend. 

Unfortunately anglers are killed every year who never planned to end up offshore simply because they do not understand the dynamics of a severe blow from the east, Northeast or even, southeast, here on our coast.

NOW is the time to plan NOT to end up offshore in a small flats or bay style boat!

Folks end up offshore because the do not have sufficient anchor, anchor chain and anchor rode( line or rope) to hold a crippled boat on the flats once the battery or engine fails. 
The rule of thumb regarding how much rode( rope) from the Coast Guard is always have "seven times the depth in anchor line"

See the trouble is if you can't hold the flats in 6 ft. you will eventually end up in 10 ft. then 20, then 30, then 40 feet of water. 40 x 7 = 240 FT OF ROPE?  anyone carrying that kind of anchor line? Keep yourself in 6-10 feet and you will not have to worry about having over 200 ft. of line!

Best way to assure this avoidable problem doesn't happen to you is simply get at least 150 ft of 3/8 inch diameter (minimum) nylon twisted rope and then consult your Marine dealer on the correct size( or weight) Danforth style (sand) anchor for your vessel. More is better larger and heavier is fine if it is for an emergency..like saving your life? Do you really need to save that $10-20 dollars by getting the smaller sized one? YIKES!

Next is the chain! I recommend at least 14 feet of 3/8 inch chain for any boat 20 feet or less, but heavier is better. 

Remember it is the weight of the chain which hold the anchor's rope in a low or acute angle, which allows the flukes to stay dug into the sand or bottom. Too light a chain and the anchor pulls up. Realize also that too short a rode and the same lifting affect occurs, the anchor pulls out... and you are adrift!

A flats style boat can drift 4 - 8 miles-an-hour with a 25 + knot wind combined with an outgoing tide etc. In ten hours you would be 40 - 80 miles offshore. No power many times means you soon have no radio. 

Don't rely on a radio to save you! Plan to save yourself!

The reason most people die on the water is not loss of power, but rather improper use of the style or type of vessel they are using. 

An offshore equipped boat is just that. It has a full transom. No "cut-down" or "cut-out" area whatsoever. The line across the back of the boat ( the top edge of the transom) is straight across and the engines are either inboard, inboard/outboard or outboards mounted on brackets or otherwise mounted behind the full transom.

Why? is answered by a simple and old saying I made up long ago..
Simply put, "if you can't keep the ocean out of the boat you should keep the boat out of the ocean!"

If you lose power and you are not quick enough and/or experienced enough to keep the bow into the w-i-n-d you will soon be in serious trouble.

 First, you will take a wave over the side..or worse the transom...then another......now the boat lists to one side and then the next wave comes over and you capsize....this take less than a few minutes.....this from reports of those who survived being in the water after capsizing. 

Did you have time to get the life jackets out from storage? let alone get them on everyone on board?
If you did, did you have time to radio for help or were you frantically trying to keep everyone from panicking and not capsize the boat?

It take just a few minutes and most folks are not prepared and can't react fast enough. 

Get the proper anchor onboard and have it at the ready and keep yourself and your crew from danger. Have a back-up handheld radio for emergencies and have it easily handy. 

DON'T take a flats or bay style boat offshore and especially not in the winter when coldwater temps can kill you in minutes or in hours.... not days. 

Practice emergency drills with your family or crew on board and have tasks for each person, so the jackets get out, the mayday is called in, and the anchor is in the water..... with the other end already tied to the boat.

You don't have to die to catch a few fish?

Do you?"


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 3, 2009)

New info.

It seems that the story has changed a bit from the survivor. He now says that the others, one by one, took off their PFD and were swept away or tried to swim to a distant light. 

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article980720.ece


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## Parker Phoenix (Mar 4, 2009)

getcha1 said:


> Parker
> How do you like the SPOT? I am impressed with the device, but I don't know anyone who has one.
> I am still awestruck how many people go out with nothing.
> Not me! The price for this equipment is peanuts compared to all of the fishing gear we buy.



I like my SPOT. When I am offshore I send out OK msges to 4 folks who can use the google link to see exactly where I am. Never had to use the help or 911 button yet, but it's nice to know it's there.


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## MudDucker (Mar 4, 2009)

Took off their life jackets and left the boat.  It can't get any worse than that.  I'm sorry, but this was suicide by stupidity.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Mar 4, 2009)

While I agree, to some extent, we need to understand the effects of hypothermia on the body and the brain.

It is my understanding that at the onset of hypothermia the body restricts flow to the extremities, including the brain, in order to keep the core organs alive.

The effects on the brain, and thus the mental capacity, would not be unlike a stroke. 

Also, as the Coast Guard spokesman said, you have to take what the survivor reported with a grain of salt because he was extremely disoriented as well.

Of course, I think the lack of mental capacity was really demonstrated by the fishermen's presence 38 mile offshore with a forecast of a strong front approaching.


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## robbie the deer hunter (Mar 4, 2009)

it was a bad decision but everyone makes bad choices sometimes. i pray to god he will get these guys in safe.


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## getcha1 (Mar 5, 2009)

*More to the story.*

Check out this new link on FOX.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,505172,00.html
It answered my original question. Anyone who goes out there has to have an EPIRB or SPOT. If you think that couldn't happen to you, you are dead wrong. I hope I never need mine, but its nice to know it is there. It makes fishing more enjoyable. By the way, I will be looking into getting a SPOT also. Thanks Parker.


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## bighonkinjeep (Mar 5, 2009)

My opinions on this matter would probably be considered  cold. I'll pray for the souls of the lost and keep my opinions to myself.
BHJ


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