# Turkey vs. pheasant loads?



## mauser64 (Feb 11, 2010)

I was looking for turkey loads at BPS yesterday and something caught my eye. Remington has their 20ga premium turkey loads 10 to a box for $10. A few feet down the isle they have their premium pheasant loads 25 to a box for $15. Both have 1.25oz copper plated #6 shot in a 3" shell with the pheasant load having a higher listed velocity. The turkey load is buffered. 

Is it just me or does it seem dumb to buy the turkey load and only get 10 shells vs. getting 25 of the same shells for $5 dollars more and would the buffered shot make a difference worth noting?


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## TR Call Maker (Feb 11, 2010)

I believe you're dead on with the pheasant loads. If they pattern good they will kill a turkey just as dead.


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## hawglips (Feb 11, 2010)

It boils down to what kind of performance one wants out of the shells they shoot at turkeys.


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## BPR (Feb 11, 2010)

hawglips said:


> It boils down to what kind of performance one wants out of the shells they shoot at turkeys.



So what is the difference between these two shells?  What difference will the guy see because of the fact that one is buffered and the one has a higher velocity?


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## Luckybuck (Feb 11, 2010)

A hunting buddy of mine wants me to call for him as he has not turkey hunted.  He did not have any shells but I checked my cabinet and noticed I had several boxes of Pheasant loads.  Info reads good enough for me, we are going to shoot and try these rather than him buying turkey loaded shells.


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## returntoarchery (Feb 11, 2010)

BPR said:


> So what is the difference between these two shells?  What difference will the guy see because of the fact that one is buffered and the one has a higher velocity?



Buffered helps minimize shot deformation which causes patterns to be less dense. The deformed shot deviates more from the intended flight path of the shot. This deviation is a function of the amount of deformation and the shot's velocity.

So if you have an unbuffered load with greater velocity, you'll have more shot deformation with those shot traveling at a higher velocity resulting in more deviation from its flight path causing a less dense pattern.

It has a lot to do with aerodynamics of the shot. See gaboy's post of how aerodynamics affect patterns. That's me btw.

http://oldgobbler.com/TheForum/index.php/topic,27047.0.html


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## Gadget (Feb 11, 2010)

returntoarchery said:


> Buffered helps minimize shot deformation which causes patterns to be less dense. The deformed shot deviates more from the intended flight path of the shot. This deviation is a function of the amount of deformation and the shot's velocity.
> 
> So if you have an unbuffered load with greater velocity, you'll have more shot deformation with those shot traveling at a higher velocity resulting in more deviation from its flight path causing a less dense pattern.
> 
> ...




Yep, buffer usually means tighter patterns for the reasons stated. It also help with Tungsten shot as well, the problem there is vibration and ricochet within the barrel and shotcup.


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## returntoarchery (Feb 11, 2010)

Gadget said:


> It also help with Tungsten shot as well, the problem there is vibration and ricochet within the barrel and shotcup.



Yep. The Tungsten shot is less susceptible to deformation hence less deviation from it's flight path. The vibration and ricochet are the other factors among many that affect the shot's flight path and pattern density.


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## returntoarchery (Feb 11, 2010)

bottom line is to pattern both with a variety of choke constrictions. Then determine which gives you a pattern density you feel comfortable with. If it's the cheaper shells then go for it.


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## hawglips (Feb 11, 2010)

BPR said:


> So what is the difference between these two shells?  What difference will the guy see because of the fact that one is buffered and the one has a higher velocity?



You have to cut it open to see.  Probably a different wad.  Obviously buffer.  One is supposedly designed for one type of job, the other is supposedly designed for a different type of job.  Like a flat vs. pointed shovel.  Depends on what job you want it for.

Though I never understood the thinking of trying to save a few bucks each year on turkey shells, when there is such a big difference in performance that you can get for a few bucks more -- it's up to the hunter to decide what is "good enough" for him and the turkeys he's wanting to shoot at.  I skimp on loads that are to be used for playing around, but never on turkey loads.  But that's just me.


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## hawglips (Feb 11, 2010)

Luckybuck said:


> A hunting buddy of mine wants me to call for him as he has not turkey hunted.  He did not have any shells but I checked my cabinet and noticed I had several boxes of Pheasant loads.  Info reads good enough for me, we are going to shoot and try these rather than him buying turkey loaded shells.



A few years ago, I made the mistake of letting a first time turkey hunter (but very big deer hunter, duck hunter etc) shoot the plain jane #4 shells he brought with him.  I called a bird right in his lap -- got him to fly across a canyon, etc -- and the guy shot three times and I watched the bird fly back across.  I felt terrible knowing I kept my mouth shut about thte shells when I knew better.


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## wisturkeyhunter (Feb 11, 2010)

Pattern them and see. Anything less is just a guess.

Plenty of turkeys are killed each year with pheasant loads though and thats not a guess.


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## mauser64 (Feb 11, 2010)

I guess it's something to jaw about until the season gets here. I killed em for years with high brass 6's as we used to say. I think I'll go ahead and stick with the designated turkey load of some brand or another. It makes sense about the buffer helping the pattern, I just hate gettin stuck for ten bucks over a nickles worth of buffer just so it can be called a turkey load.


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## hawglips (Feb 11, 2010)

mauser64 said:


> It makes sense about the buffer helping the pattern, I just hate gettin stuck for ten bucks over a nickles worth of buffer just so it can be called a turkey load.



It's probably got a different wad also.  And powder charge.  Maybe primer also.  Along with the buffer, all designed to give you a better performing turkey hunting pattern.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 11, 2010)

hawglips said:


> It's probably got a different wad also.  And powder charge.  Maybe primer also.  Along with the buffer, all designed to give you a better performing turkey hunting pattern.



HL, how does a primer affect the patterning of a load?  I've loaded tens of thousands of shotshells in both 12 and 20 ga, but they have all been for skeet and clay shooting, all using target recipes.  Never have fooled around with anything different...just looked up a recipe that I like with a clean powder, and loaded.  Thanks!


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## hawglips (Feb 11, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> HL, how does a primer affect the patterning of a load?  I've loaded tens of thousands of shotshells in both 12 and 20 ga, but they have all been for skeet and clay shooting, all using target recipes.  Never have fooled around with anything different...just looked up a recipe that I like with a clean powder, and loaded.  Thanks!



The primer effects powder burn and speed.  Some are a lot hotter than others, some are for light loads, etc.  It's part of the whole package that must be taken into account when developing a load for a particular job.


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## returntoarchery (Feb 11, 2010)

hawglips said:


> The primer effects powder burn and speed.  Some are a lot hotter than others, some are for light loads, etc.  It's part of the whole package that must be taken into account when developing a load for a particular job.



That was my thinking as well. changes the pressure profile changing the shots vibration and ricochet characteristics  while trans-versing the barrel.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 11, 2010)

hawglips said:


> The primer effects powder burn and speed.  Some are a lot hotter than others, some are for light loads, etc.  It's part of the whole package that must be taken into account when developing a load for a particular job.





returntoarchery said:


> That was my thinking as well. changes the pressure profile changing the shots vibration and ricochet characteristics  while trans-versing the barrel.



10-4.  All that stuff is way outside of what I know about shotshell reloading.


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