# Body Rituals discussion continued from Who's Here



## TTom (Sep 26, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTom View Post
Well yes there are other ways that are used with less trauma.
One specific sect of Sufi Muslims use a whirling dance that they do for hours in order to commune with God. (ever heard the term Whirling Dervish) Several African tribes and more than a few Indigenous American Tribes use drumming and rhythmic dance to induce trance states that are used as a method of prayer and communion with their G_ds. Sometime with the use of drugs but often times without drugs.

Many ways to access that same head space, Some easier than others, but pain has long been a means by which man uses his internal chemistry to produce trance states.

There were Christian sects in the early middle ages that used self flogging to achieve these trance states, Not to unlike the Shiite Muslims with there self flagellation on pilgrimages.

I also study some of the body rituals of Christians in places like the Philippines, where they have volunteers to suffer the Passions of Christ as part of their Easter celebrations. Some even go so far as to have nails driven in instead of being tied to the crosses.

The list of religions that have used body stress as a means to achieve trance like prayer states is very long. And I study as many of these as I can.


Ambush Asked 

Fascinating. Are these rituals very personal or do they shape the way that you interact with others and do they inform the way that you develop your morality?
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## SneekEE (Sep 26, 2010)

Made me think of this verse...

From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

I saw on the news recently a girl was expelled from school for haveing her nose peirced. She was taking them to court i believe cause she said it was part of her religion. Aparantly there is a church and it s members some how incorporate body mutalations and peircings into there faith system.


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## TTom (Sep 26, 2010)

Well they tend to be a bit of each. body ritual is a gnostic experiencial pathway. It's about experiencing G_d directly. So it's not as thouh I get revelations about scripture or anything like that. I get images and process things in my life with these rituals I facilitate these rituals for others sometimes as well serving as a guide for those doing it for their first time. (Including doing the actual piercing of others)

Shape the way I interact with others? hmmmm not sure they shape it in a direct way the way many other faiths get rules and such from their rituals and texts. Being a spiritual universalist I see all pathways to G_d as valid for those walking them. So tolerance is a mainstay of my faith.

Morality comes from emotional connection to the universal consciousness for me. Does this act damage someone else without just cause or necessity? Does the act create a sense of guilt in my heart? I'll study, and meditate and process these questions sometimes while in trance seeking answers and clarity.

Sometimes the trances will provide moments of crystal clear clairity on a question for me. Sometimes they will purge guilt or connect the dots that give me answers to my questions.


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## TTom (Sep 26, 2010)

Sneekee yes the Church of Body Modification is such a body. I'm not sure I buy it for a public school age person. Since most states reqire parental consent for such things until the age of 18.

I know none of my rituals have included those under 18.

But yes there is a spiritual aspect to these things for many of us.
I have no permanent piercings myself but I have had flesh hooks in my chest almost a dozen times. So I know the spiritual power that can be found in piercing.


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## Thor827 (Sep 26, 2010)

TTom, 
Are you involved with Psychotic Suspensions?


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## earl (Sep 26, 2010)

SneekEE said:


> Made me think of this verse...
> 
> From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
> 
> I saw on the news recently a girl was expelled from school for haveing her nose peirced. She was taking them to court i believe cause she said it was part of her religion. Aparantly there is a church and it s members some how incorporate body mutalations and peircings into there faith system.



I believe you have the wrong forum for bible verse quoting . Ya'll have your own forum now so no need to proselytize in this one.


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## TTom (Sep 26, 2010)

No Thor, I'm not involved with that group, But I know a few folks who are.


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## ambush80 (Sep 26, 2010)

earl said:


> I believe you have the wrong forum for bible verse quoting . Ya'll have your own forum now so no need to proselytize in this one.



You remind me of when my brother and I would fight in the backseat of the car and my dad would say "You stay on your sides!"


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## ambush80 (Sep 26, 2010)

Thor827 said:


> TTom,
> Are you involved with Psychotic Suspensions?




OOOOO! Whats dat?  Got a link?


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## TTom (Sep 26, 2010)

They are a group who do suspensions in the Atlanta area. Many of the things they do appear more performance art than ritual to me, but that's my bias.


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## Thor827 (Sep 26, 2010)

TTom said:


> They are a group who do suspensions in the Atlanta area. Many of the things they do appear more performance art than ritual to me, but that's my bias.



That's the impression that I got too. I was just curious because you don't run across people that practice suspensions and flesh hooks very often. I met some of the PS folks at a show where my band was playing. They performed between some of the bands. I was a little bit intimidated at first, but they turned out to be pretty nice people.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 7, 2010)

TTom said:


> Sneekee yes the Church of Body Modification is such a body. I'm not sure I buy it for a public school age person. Since most states reqire parental consent for such things until the age of 18.
> 
> I know none of my rituals have included those under 18.
> 
> ...



That seems like it would leave a permanent mark.


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## TTom (Oct 7, 2010)

They heal up pretty well.

Out of a dozen or so times with 2 hooks each time, I have one small scar from the hooks. 

Of course every body is a little different, so I remind people that nobody can guarantee that you won't get a small scar from the hooks.


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## ted_BSR (Oct 14, 2010)

TTom said:


> Well they tend to be a bit of each. body ritual is a gnostic experiencial pathway. It's about experiencing G_d directly. So it's not as thouh I get revelations about scripture or anything like that. I get images and process things in my life with these rituals I facilitate these rituals for others sometimes as well serving as a guide for those doing it for their first time. (Including doing the actual piercing of others)
> 
> Shape the way I interact with others? hmmmm not sure they shape it in a direct way the way many other faiths get rules and such from their rituals and texts. Being a spiritual universalist I see all pathways to G_d as valid for those walking them. So tolerance is a mainstay of my faith.
> 
> ...



The red text is very important. I feel like it supports my belief that morality comes from a higher power.


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## TTom (Oct 15, 2010)

On a personal level we don't disagree, on an intellectual level I cannot say that my experience transfers to every other person on earth. So in humility I have to allow for the potential for other people to gather their morals from whatever source they will.


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## ambush80 (Oct 15, 2010)

TTom said:


> On a personal level we don't disagree, on an intellectual level I cannot say that my experience transfers to every other person on earth. So in humilityI have to allow for the potential for other  people to gather their morals from whatever source they will.



Which, as it turns out, is themselves; and they do.  Even if they all use the exact same reference book.


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## TTom (May 5, 2011)

Update on my journeys, 

I took the opportunity to do a hook suspension last weekend.
4 hooks and I hung in the air from them for about 4 minutes.

I felt like it was about 1 and a half minute, the witnesses told meI was up for about 4.

I got a little bit of a vision for a second of the divine, but only for a moment. I left it up there so there is no doubt I'll be going back up to find it again.


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## ambush80 (May 5, 2011)

TTom said:


> Update on my journeys,
> 
> I took the opportunity to do a hook suspension last weekend.
> 4 hooks and I hung in the air from them for about 4 minutes.
> ...



Where do you do this stuff?  What did the Divine look like?


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## Six million dollar ham (May 5, 2011)

TTom said:


> Update on my journeys,
> 
> I took the opportunity to do a hook suspension last weekend.
> 4 hooks and I hung in the air from them for about 4 minutes.
> ...



Holy.......


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## TTom (May 6, 2011)

Nothing quite so fancy or earth shattering as the face of God, or anything.

When that shift came about, the pain levels dropped significantly and only the idea of being off the ground hanging there remained.

Specifically light through closed eyes from a direction where no light was in the physical room. A calm sense of self and the rightness of me being where I should be. 

Tough to describe it because so much was happening in my head at that time. Was my first time up but as I said it will not be my last time. I came down feeling that I missed the connection, that the phone rang and I couldn't quite get there to pick it up.


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## ambush80 (May 6, 2011)

TTom said:


> Nothing quite so fancy or earth shattering as the face of God, or anything.
> 
> When that shift came about, the pain levels dropped significantly and only the idea of being off the ground hanging there remained.
> 
> ...



Cool.  Sounds like some endorphins kicked in.  I love that feeling; real transcendence.   Do you do that at someone"s warehouse or basement or something?


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## JFS (May 6, 2011)

Sounds like a good acid trip.


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## Thor827 (May 6, 2011)

TTom said:


> Nothing quite so fancy or earth shattering as the face of God, or anything.
> 
> When that shift came about, the pain levels dropped significantly and only the idea of being off the ground hanging there remained.
> 
> ...



Very interesting........


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## ambush80 (May 6, 2011)

JFS said:


> Sounds like a good acid trip.




Without the "Yicks".  Maybe a different kind of yicks


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## TTom (May 6, 2011)

This one was a warehouse space in Tucker, beyond that i'll keep it private.

And the endorphins had been kickin in for a little while at that point, LOL. I'd faced a huge well of fear before going up as I first started to put weight on the hooks but still standing. After that fear had passed I knew I would make it up.

I came down so early because I had an adrenaline let down crash and got nauseous. I should have stayed up and fought through that too. Next time I'll be better prepared.


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## Nicodemus (May 6, 2011)

Is this something like the sun ceremonies that some of the Plains Indian tribes did, where they were hung up by bone skewers?


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## ambush80 (May 6, 2011)

TTom said:


> This one was a warehouse space in Tucker, beyond that i'll keep it private.
> 
> And the endorphins had been kickin in for a little while at that point, LOL. I'd faced a huge well of fear before going up as I first started to put weight on the hooks but still standing. After that fear had passed I knew I would make it up.
> 
> I came down so early because I had an adrenaline let down crash and got nauseous. I should have stayed up and fought through that too. Next time I'll be better prepared.



That sounds unimaginably intense.


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## TTom (May 6, 2011)

Nicodemus it is related to those but a modern take on the same old idea.

The Lakota Sun dance sometimes had suspensions, although they usually pulled from the ground. Additionally the non suspendees pulled until they tore free. Either the skewer or the flesh broke in those. The suspension ritual was the O Kee Pa ritual which relates back to the Mandan Lakota creation myth.

Additionally halfway across the planet the other Indians in India had piercing for pulling and suspension in one of their rituals as well. The Chidi Mari festival of the Tamil Savite Hindus.


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## Nicodemus (May 6, 2011)

TTom said:


> Nicodemus it is related to those but a modern take on the same old idea.
> 
> The Lakota Sun dance sometimes had suspensions, although they usually pulled from the ground. Additionally the non suspendees pulled until they tore free. Either the skewer or the flesh broke in those. The suspension ritual was the O Kee Pa ritual which relates back to the Mandan Lakota creation myth.
> 
> Additionally halfway across the planet the other Indians in India had piercing for pulling and suspension in one of their rituals as well. The Chidi Mari festival of the Tamil Savite Hindus.




Thanks. I`m familiar with the Plains Sundance, but I didn`t realize other cultures in other parts of the world has similar practices. That`s interestin`.


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## ambush80 (May 7, 2011)

TTom said:


> Nicodemus it is related to those but a modern take on the same old idea.
> 
> The Lakota Sun dance sometimes had suspensions, although they usually pulled from the ground. Additionally the non suspendees pulled until they tore free. Either the skewer or the flesh broke in those. The suspension ritual was the O Kee Pa ritual which relates back to the Mandan Lakota creation myth.
> 
> Additionally halfway across the planet the other Indians in India had piercing for pulling and suspension in one of their rituals as well. The Chidi Mari festival of the Tamil Savite Hindus.



People everywhere like to be in altered states don't they?


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## atlashunter (May 7, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Thanks. I`m familiar with the Plains Sundance, but I didn`t realize other cultures in other parts of the world has similar practices. That`s interestin`.



You gonna give it a try Nic?


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## Nicodemus (May 7, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> You gonna give it a try Nic?





Nah, think I`ll pass on that one. 

I did make a stone blade knife for a man one time, that used it in a Sundance ceremony.


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## atlashunter (May 7, 2011)

I'll pass too. Turning myself into a shish-k-bob doesn't sound like my gig. Some things I'll just have to take peoples word for.


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## ambush80 (May 7, 2011)

TTom,

Do you think one could start slow?  Maybe running a knitting needle through a forearm?


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## TTom (May 7, 2011)

LOL Ambush, Actually even my suspension hooks are smaller than most knitting needles. For a good reference figure a 12/0 Hooks, check them out next time you're at your favorite fishing shop that carries deep sea stuff.

But Nicodemus and Atlashunter I understand, funny thing is first time I ever saw this stuff I said something along the lines of:

"In a million years you couldn't pay me enough....."
(that's the cleaned up version, add in a few expletives that wouldn't be appreciated by Nicodemus )

Funny how the universe works.


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## Huntinfool (May 9, 2011)

> Funny how the universe works.




Pretty ordered if you ask me...


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