# Joel Osteen



## SPITCAN (Nov 30, 2005)

Do many of you guys out there ever watch Joel Osteen on Sunday Morning...He preaches at the Lakewood Church in Texas! Absolutely Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Always puts me in a better state of mind after each sermon!


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## PWalls (Nov 30, 2005)

I listen to him on occasion.

Personally, I think he preaches to much "feel good" gospel. That's fine, but I think some more down home "there are consequences to your actions" type preaching is needed more. However, you don't fill churches with that kind of preaching.


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## 7mmultramag (Nov 30, 2005)

Yes Sir I Enjoy His Message Also


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## taylornelms (Nov 30, 2005)

Im gonna agree with Pwalls on that one.  Maybe its not about filling churches with people that dont get the gospel. Im not sayin people that dont understand the gospel shoudl attend but if the preacher is preaching stuff to help them continue to misunderstand it then he is off course. There are great positive messages in there but sometimes and i think more times than not peopel sohuld hear whats really goin on in the bible and not how great things will be in heaven.  If a preacher has guts which i dont think joel osteen has he would preach about the harder things in the bible.  If you are a baby christian this stuff is great. But more times than not preaching like this will ge people there then when you decide to preach that tuff message they seem lost and dont like the bible anymore. just a thought


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## BANDERSNATCH (Nov 30, 2005)

Joel is awesome!    You can tell he believes that God is on his side!   I like that.

God is my friend too!

Bandy


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## Hooty Hoot (Nov 30, 2005)

Joel has a good message and a good delivery. If i`m not in the woods, I watch and listen.  HH


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## blindhog (Nov 30, 2005)

http://www.myfortress.org/FALSETEACHERS.html


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## BANDERSNATCH (Nov 30, 2005)

HH, I agree.   A great preacher.    No doubt he loves the Lord.    

I love believing like he, and many of our patriarchs, do....that God can be depended on in time of need.   A present help...who we can boldly come to!

Bandy


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## Flash (Nov 30, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> http://www.myfortress.org/FALSETEACHERS.html



  Interesting


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## blindhog (Nov 30, 2005)

http://www.letusreason.org/popteac29.htm


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## ponyboy (Nov 30, 2005)

joel.....


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## Gator1679 (Nov 30, 2005)

I agree with a couple of the aforementioned posts, about too much of a feel good gospel. Also too much of prosperity gospel coming from him. Not saying its all wrong, but its easier to fill a building and gain followers when you tell them that there life is always going to be blessed and that everything is always gonna be alright. I think I recall even Jesus saying that "in this world you will have troubles..." He stuck his foot in his mouth twice on national tv when he really had a chance to stand up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and proclaim to the nation that He is the only way to heaven, but Joel sort of dodged the bullet, in an effort to be politically correct. Today Show, and Larry King Live.


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## blindhog (Dec 1, 2005)

I have never heard him preach the gospel message of repentance of the sinner, and calling out what sin is.

He is WF oriented big time.
Prosperity preaching.
Maybe uses one or two verses during his "stories". No real expository teaching of scriptures.

You need a lot of discernment when listening to todays TV "gospel stars".

"Study to show thyself approved unto God..."


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## SPITCAN (Dec 1, 2005)

All I know is that when I watch his program, he has a really positive message and I personally enjoy his aspect of the gospel. I have never been a televangalist kind of guy but Osteen seems different to me than the rest. And as far as the two web links on here.....I wonder how the authors of those would like a microscope put on their lives?


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## feathersnantlers (Dec 1, 2005)

*It is all about getting new believers*

If you want to get deep in the word you should immerse yourself into it. 

If you're sole development is waiting on a preacher to preach to you something is wrong. 

None of you mention going to this man's church. How do  you know what type of discipleship program they have? 

You don't, but b/c you watch a man on TV trying to win new believers to Christ.You think he's the wolf in sheeps clothing.

Judge not lest you be judged. We all have to answer one day.


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## PWalls (Dec 1, 2005)

feathersnantlers said:
			
		

> None of you mention going to this man's church. How do  you know what type of discipleship program they have?
> 
> You don't, but b/c you watch a man on TV trying to win new believers to Christ.You think he's the wolf in sheeps clothing.
> 
> Judge not lest you be judged. We all have to answer one day.



I am not judging him. All I am saying that while he is a good speaker and definately preaches a feel good message (I don't think anyone can deny that), I don't find to much scriptural or expository teaching in his sermons. Definately not any sin/consequence teaching.

He is filling that Church with that message. But, how many of those people are really getting what they need? Or, are they their just because he is a good speaker with an always positive message?


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## Eshad (Dec 1, 2005)

Gator1679 said:
			
		

> I agree with a couple of the aforementioned posts, about too much of a feel good gospel. Also too much of prosperity gospel coming from him. Not saying its all wrong, but its easier to fill a building and gain followers when you tell them that there life is always going to be blessed and that everything is always gonna be alright. I think I recall even Jesus saying that "in this world you will have troubles..." He stuck his foot in his mouth twice on national tv when he really had a chance to stand up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and proclaim to the nation that He is the only way to heaven, but Joel sort of dodged the bullet, in an effort to be politically correct. Today Show, and Larry King Live.



Gator, I saw those shows also, and totally agree.  When a preacher of the gospel doesn't want to stand up and say there is only One way to heaven, something is not right.  God didn't call us to be popular, but to speak the truth.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 1, 2005)

If you ask me, I'll tell you...there is only one way to eternal life....through Jesus Christ.   But what, in your opinion, will God do with people who never ever get to hear about Jesus.   

Let's say that out of the millions of Muslims worldwide that, say, 50% of them have never heard about Jesus Christ.   Will they be burned for trillions of years, or will they be judged on the "light" that they have?

Just curious as to you guys opinion...

Bandy


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## Eshad (Dec 1, 2005)

Romans 1:18-20.  I believe God will reveal Himself to all in some way, so that they are without excuse.  I don't personally know what all those ways might be, but I believe it.


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## feathersnantlers (Dec 1, 2005)

*Didn't know aboutthose shows and comments...*

If ya'll say you saw and heard him divert the correct the answer of acceptance as Jesus Christ as your personal savior then I have to believe you.

I tried to take up for him.

Oh Well...try again Joel...


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## Eshad (Dec 1, 2005)

Feathers, I hated to hear it too.  I was really hoping he would tell Larry King and everyone else the Jesus Christ was the ONLY way to heaven, but he sidestepped the question altogether.


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## feathersnantlers (Dec 1, 2005)

*My bad..it turns my stomach*

If he is a man of God and, much more called to preach, it is his duty to tell the truth.

I wonder what his daddy is thinking up there right now?


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## ssmith (Dec 1, 2005)

Blind hog-thanks for that web site on false teachers -sure appreciate it-


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## blindhog (Dec 1, 2005)

Your welcome.  They are some slick-tongued dudes.  The common thread of their teaching is it appeals to the flesh.

A lot of it is the oldest lie,,,"and ye shall be as Gods..."

In other words...speak it into existance....Joel teaches that also, a little more subtly than most IMHO.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 1, 2005)

Well, I guess Eshad was the only one who has an opinion about people who never hear about Jesus.   Thanks Eshad for sharing.    Unless you believe that all who never hear about Jesus are going to burn in big toebig toebig toebig toe for trillions upon trillions of years, then you have to answer like Joel did.  


Here's another question....

When you pray for something, should you believe that you receive or not?    You probably know where I'm headed with this...

Bandy


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## 7401R (Dec 1, 2005)

Friends, the Bible says Jesus is the "ONLY" way. That is good enough for me.

   7


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## Gator1679 (Dec 1, 2005)

The whole idea of all the televangelists can be very dangerous. I never recommend that, especially new believers watch a lot of them. I really feel that you should have a very solid foundation on the Word of God, so that you can know that what a man says on the TV is what God said. I myself really dont care to hear anymore of man's opinions. Lets go straight to the source. BIBLE! It's a pretty good book, ought to check it out sometime. All that being said, its real shaky ground trying to discern these churches motives for what they are doing. I believe they for the most part are doing it for the right reasons, but you have to be careful. ie. I love to watch Jentzen Franklin (from Free Chapel in Gainsville). I dont believe all of his and his churches theology, but he is a dynamic preacher. I just take the good and weed out what I dont feel God's Word is communicating. Again, you have to stay in the Word. Hermeneutics class was the best seminary class I ever took, cause it really teaches you how to break down a text and take out of it what God was trying to communicate, not what we try to read into it.


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## Flash (Dec 1, 2005)

7401R said:
			
		

> Friends, the Bible says Jesus is the "ONLY" way. That is good enough for me.



  Can't argue with that.


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## Zack attack (Dec 1, 2005)

Joel is a Christian Motivational Speaker at best. I am sorry but positive thinking has never saved anyone's soul. Only regeneration through the work of the Holy Spirit. You can think positive all day long but if you have not repented of your sins, a put your faith in the Gospel then you have a firey future. If people would pick up the Word of God and read it in context (expositionally) then we would be much better off. The health, wealth, and Prosperity Gospel is a lie, it was hatched in big toebig toebig toebig toe, and has the smell of smoke all over it. Why is it that you only hear about God's love these days and never God's wrath, if you are not taught about the wrath of God then you can not fully understand the Love of God. The Bible teaches in many places that the whole word of God is to be taught, if we only teach part of it or pick and choose by what tickles peoples ears we are being disobedient to the word of God and much worse deceiving people of the truth.


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## Keith48 (Dec 1, 2005)

Zack attack said:
			
		

> The health, wealth, and Prosperity Gospel is a lie



If your church believes that prosperity is a lie, then why do they receive an offering??

Health and prosperity are promised in the Word of God. And while you sit here pointing your finger at other Christians, there is a world that is dying and going to big toebig toebig toebig toe. Jesus Himself said that a house divided against itself WILL NOT stand. And some of you guys are doing your best to divide. You need to repent and ask God to forgive you. And you should be ashamed of yourselves if you call yourself a follower of Christ. While you sit here spewing hatred for him, you are not doing anything to win anybody that is not a believer. Matter of fact, you are showing the world that the church is exactly what they think it is.

If you disagree with him, then fine. Pray for him. The Bible tells us to edify one another, not tear one another down. Jesus is the intereceder; satan is the accuser. Who are you emulating??


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## Zack attack (Dec 1, 2005)

Show me scripture. The health, wealth, prosperity, gospel teaches that if you accept Christ then God will give you health, wealth, and prosperity. Show me. If you consider health to be health in spirit, wealth to be wealth in Godly  wisdom, and prosperity in souls one for the Lord then I will stand behind it. But that is not what they are teaching, they are teaching in terms of worldy means and posesions. I am not sure what the church tithe has to do with prosperity, but rather obediance. Show me scripture that says that if you become a Christian everything will be ok. Please show me Scripture.


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## Zack attack (Dec 2, 2005)

Jude vs. 3-4 " Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to conted for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all. For certain men, who were designated for this judgement long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turnig the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying our only master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 
vs. 16 These people are discontented grumblers, walking according to their desires; there mouths udder arrogant words, flattering people for their own advantage. vs 17 But you, dear friends, remember the words for told by the apostles by our Lord Jesus Christ; vs. 18 they told you, "in the end time there will be scoffers walking according to 
their own ungodly desires." vs. 19 These people create divisions and are merely natural, not having the Spirit.


I am trying to contend for the faith, not persecute others.


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## blindhog (Dec 2, 2005)

Keith48 said:
			
		

> If your church believes that prosperity is a lie, then why do they receive an offering??
> 
> Health and prosperity are promised in the Word of God. And while you sit here pointing your finger at other Christians, there is a world that is dying and going to big toebig toebig toebig toe. Jesus Himself said that a house divided against itself WILL NOT stand. And some of you guys are doing your best to divide. You need to repent and ask God to forgive you. And you should be ashamed of yourselves if you call yourself a follower of Christ. While you sit here spewing hatred for him, you are not doing anything to win anybody that is not a believer. Matter of fact, you are showing the world that the church is exactly what they think it is.
> 
> If you disagree with him, then fine. Pray for him. The Bible tells us to edify one another, not tear one another down. Jesus is the intereceder; satan is the accuser. Who are you emulating??



Noone is spewing hatred.

The scriptures tell us to reprove, rebuke, judge the teaching of saints.

Look how Paul got on to Peter about his incorrect teaching, and in public.

It is correct to come against something unscriptural.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

Zack,

Scripture plainly states that Jesus bore our sins AND sicknesses.    Most people, however, only believe that He still bares sins (which is an attribute that we can't prove now)  We have no proof that our sin is actually forgiven.   But when it comes to sicknesses, many don't believe that he still bares that.     Jesus healed because it was His nature, and His nature has not changed. 

Bandy


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Here's another question....
> 
> When you pray for something, should you believe that you receive or not?    You probably know where I'm headed with this...
> Bandy



Back To Top....


Surely someone has an opinion about this?   Did the Lord mean this or what He just "running His mouth"?

Bandy


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## Gator1679 (Dec 2, 2005)

I agree, no one is spewing hatred. We are merely voicing our concern over another brothers RESPONSIBILITY to preach the whole Gospel. I'm not sure you are on-target at all bringing the _"If prosperity is a lie, than why do you take an offering" line. I have no clue what that means, and what it has to do with a man who for some reason, when given the opportunity to have his voice heard among millions of people choose not to give them the Gospel that he proclaims in his church building. Keith48, there is nothing that I would want to do to cause a non-believer to reject Christ. But I also will not stand around as a man who is supposedly the mouth piece of God on this earth- not give the whole truth. I never said he was telling a lie. I simply think he is not giving the whole truth._


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

You guys have definitely made me want to sit down and listen to what he is saying.    I'll have to figure out when he comes on in our area.    

I do like how he starts his messages.....  "I am what (this bible) says I am....."   )

Bandy


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## Zack attack (Dec 2, 2005)

Bandersnatch, 
I never said that Jesus does not still heal. I am living proof that he heals. The hwp gospel says that if you become a Christian, then everythings gonna  be alright, you will be healed of what ailes you. There is no gurantee that you wil be healed ex. Pauls thorn in the flesh. Healing can not be our sales pitch.


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## Eshad (Dec 2, 2005)

Keith48, I humbly disagree with your assessment of the responses here.  I believe everyone has answered the question that was originally asked by Spitcan, in Christian love.  "In Christian love" does not always mean agreeing. Bottom line, any preacher, including my own at my church, should be compared with what the Bible says.  If what they preach is not scripturally sound, then we need to beware, whoever it is.

This is not aimed at Joel Olsteen or anyone in particular, but just something for all of us to keep in mind.  I have always heard the "the most effective lie is one that most closely resembles the truth".


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm still amazed at the number of people who think that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was a disease!    Thorns in the flesh are mentioned elsewhere in the bible, and never refer to disease.    This "messenger from Satan" came and went.... and Paul never calls it sickness, and he never refers to sickness anywhere else in this manner. 

You are grasping with the "thorn in the flesh" statement.

The Lord wills for people to be healed physically, just as He wills them to be healed spiritually.    He bore both, and it's just as easy for Him to heal physically as it is spiritually.   Both rest with us.

Bandy


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## Vernon Holt (Dec 2, 2005)

Keith48 said:
			
		

> "Health and prosperity are promised in the Word of God".
> 
> These words are certainly true, but they may not happen in this life.  Every promise that has been made to the believer is a cinch to happen ultimately.  However these promises may not be fullfilled on our own timing and expectation.
> 
> ...


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## Zack attack (Dec 2, 2005)

Bandersnatch, 
We do not what pauls thorn in the flesh was, but most scholars believe it to be some kind of physical elment. Either way it does not change the fact that the Bible does not promise that you will be healthy if you become a Christian. Show me Scripture.


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## Vernon Holt (Dec 2, 2005)

Zack attack said:
			
		

> "*The Bible does not promise that you will be healthy if you become a Christian". *


 
Neither does it promise that you will be wealthy as others have inferred.


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## TroutTackler (Dec 2, 2005)

Wow!!  For those of you who listen to this warm and fuzzy motivational speaker, I want you to know that he is deceiving people daily, and in great numbers!

His message may be partially true, but he is not telling of the consequences or the condemnation that comes along with not believing in Jesus.  If you don't believe this, read the four gospels and find out for yourselves in Jesus' own words.  

This guy reallys scares me.....the fact that he has this many people hanging on every word that he says, yet he's not giving them TRUTH.  

You would love to be around me all day if all I did was compliment everything about you, except I left out telling you what you could improve upon.  And guess what, the truch hurts, but the truth also helps and saves!

Please don't base who you listen to on emotional feelings, but on Biblical truth.  I would much rather go to a church where the pastor is boring but teaches truth than a church where the "pastor" has a good delivery but hides the not-so-pleasant aspects.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

Zacky,

Isaiah 53:4 states that Jesus would bear both sin and sickness.   Does he bear only all sin now, but SOME sickness?      People, and christians, get sick.   That's why Jesus offers healing.    I know of several examples in the New Testament where christians got sick, but they NEVER died from it.   No one ever came to Jesus for healing and was turned away.    Even in the Old Testament, when God sent a disease, He made a way out of it.    

In Psalm 103 David says that the benefits of God are "forgiveness of iniquities" and that God "heals from ALL disease".     Are we worse off know that Jesus has come?   NO.


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## blindhog (Dec 2, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Zacky,
> 
> Isaiah 53:4 states that Jesus would bear both sin and sickness.   Does he bear only all sin now, but SOME sickness?      People, and christians, get sick.   That's why Jesus offers healing.    I know of several examples in the New Testament where christians got sick, but they NEVER died from it.   No one ever came to Jesus for healing and was turned away.    Even in the Old Testament, when God sent a disease, He made a way out of it.
> 
> In Psalm 103 David says that the benefits of God are "forgiveness of iniquities" and that God "heals from ALL disease".     Are we worse off know that Jesus has come?   NO.



If your interpretation were 100% true then noone would die.
If when sickness appears and everytime we can plead for Jesus to heal and He does then why does scripture tell us it is appointed unto man once to die a physical death?

Teaching that all is physical health and material prosperity when becoming a christian is just tickling the flesh.

We know that it is spritual healing and prosperity that is 100% guarrenteed from God.

Not to say He doesn't heal, He does.
Not to say He doesn't allow one to come into material prosperity, He does.

But as He says, it is ALL ACCORDING TO HIS WILL.

God is never obligated to man, no matter what the Copeland crowd tells you.


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## Zack attack (Dec 2, 2005)

Sorry to be off subject, but bandy are you associated with southeastern college, student, prof maybe? Just wandering.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

Zacky,

Nope.   I know where the college is, but have nothing to do with it.   I believe that college is more 'Assembly of God' though.     I may be wrong.

Blind,

I don't interpret it that way.   The bible says that we will all die, and that is the last enemy Jesus will defeat.   In the mean time, the word states that Satan will try to take us out....that disease is a product of the devil, Acts 10:38, and that Jesus has offered us healing, just as He offers spiritual salvation.   Everyone that Jesus healed eventually died.   That doesn't mean that they weren't ever healed.   I believe that sometime in the future I will get sick again.   But I believe that the Lord will heal me yet again, as He always has.   

No one has proof that we are 100% guaranteed spiritual health/prosperity.   We don't have an ounce of proof yet.  
It amazes me how sure people are of what they can't prove, but doubt what takes evidence....physical healing.   In Mark, when Jesus said "your sins are forgiven", they didn't doubt that He could heal the guy, but they doubted that He could forgive sins.    Today, many believe that He can forgive sins, but that he rolls the dice on whom He heals.     Using your logic we'd have to assume that it's not God's will to save everyone, since not everyone gets saved.  If it's God's will to save everyone, then everyone will be saved, right?    Same with physical healing.   

I believe that most people use faith in Christ for healing as an 'adjuvant' therapy....something to use along with leaning on the arm of flesh.  (doctors)    If believers actually believed that the Lord was going to heal them, then they wouldn't spend their fortune pursuing other treatments.      


Bandy


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 2, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> Teaching that all is physical health and material prosperity when becoming a christian is just tickling the flesh.




Let me add that I don't believe this either.   Teaching someone that when they become a christian they won't ever get sick or be tight in their finances is unscriptural.     I don't know of anyone who teaches/preaches this though.    

Bandy


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## blindhog (Dec 3, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Zacky,
> 
> Nope.   I know where the college is, but have nothing to do with it.   I believe that college is more 'Assembly of God' though.     I may be wrong.
> 
> ...



My proof is the written word of God.

Without faith it is impossible to please Him.


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## blindhog (Dec 3, 2005)

BANDERSNATCH said:
			
		

> Zacky,
> 
> Nope.   I know where the college is, but have nothing to do with it.   I believe that college is more 'Assembly of God' though.     I may be wrong.
> 
> ...



Don't EVER use man's "logic", as scriptures tells us God's will

2Peter 3:9.." The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,"


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## BANDERSNATCH (Dec 3, 2005)

blindhog said:
			
		

> My proof is the written word of God.



As is mine for Healing.   We can't go by what we experience with either spiritual or physical healing.   If we went by how many people actually get saved, we'd have to conclude that it wasn't God's will to save everyone.   Same with healing.   We assume that if someone doesn't get healed that it wasn't God's will to heal them.   

Matthew 8:13 - And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and *as thou hast believed*, so be it done unto thee.

Ephesians 5:17 - Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 

"Faith begins where the will of the Lord is known" F. F. Bosworth

If you don't believe that the Lord bore your sicknesses, and that sickness might be His will for you, then when you get sick fight Him hard with medicine and doctors!!   The Lord comes through for me everytime.  

Let me say guys that, although many of us have differing opinions on various doctrines, I enjoy the discussion and have no animosity towards any of you.   If I've seemed condescending towards any of you, it's unintended.  

Bandy


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