# Christianity on the decline



## bullethead (Apr 29, 2015)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chris...0.html#cover-3d2ff17102384663927fc1eef59e37c8 


> As of 2010, Christianity was the dominant world religion with roughly 2.2 billion adherents and Muslim's were second with about 1.6 billion adherents.CensoredIf current demographic trends continue however, Islam is expected to catch up to Christianity midway through the 21st century.


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## welderguy (Apr 29, 2015)

bullethead said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chris...0.html#cover-3d2ff17102384663927fc1eef59e37c8



I think many followers of Islam are being forced to against their will out of fear of death.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 29, 2015)

welderguy said:


> I think many followers of Islam are being forced to against their will out of fear of death.



I'm a Christian out of fear of death but I'm not being forced against my will. If I have a will.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 29, 2015)

welderguy said:


> I think many followers of Islam are being forced to against their will out of fear of death.


If true, that wouldn't explain why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States though.
As far as Islam numbers vs Christianity numbers this surely isn't helping -


> Furthermore, people are leaving Christianity in droves. About 106 million Christians are expected to switch affiliation from 2010 to 2050 while only about 40 million people are expected to enter Christianity.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 29, 2015)

Looks like unaffiliated suffers the biggest loss according to the numbers, but who knows? They are predicting peoples faith in 2050!


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## WaltL1 (Apr 29, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> Looks like unaffiliated suffers the biggest loss according to the numbers, but who knows? They are predicting peoples faith in 2050!


Just the opposite -


> The religiously unaffiliated (athiests, agnostics) are expected to see the largest net gains from switching, adding more than 61 million followers.


Christianity suffers the largest net loss at over 66,000,000
However world wide, all religions combined, will outpace the unaffiliated.


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## welderguy (Apr 29, 2015)

WaltL1 said:


> If true, that wouldn't explain why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States though.
> As far as Islam numbers vs Christianity numbers this surely isn't helping -



America will no doubt see more and more of Islamic oppression in the near future.The recruiters are already in place and are very busy behind the scenes but are becoming more and more evident.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 29, 2015)

welderguy said:


> America will no doubt see more and more of Islamic oppression in the near future.The recruiters are already in place and are very busy behind the scenes but are becoming more and more evident.


Funny how religions don't seem to be satisfied with their beliefs. They always want the power to go along with it.


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## bullethead (Apr 29, 2015)

welderguy said:


> America will no doubt see more and more of Islamic oppression in the near future.The recruiters are already in place and are very busy behind the scenes but are becoming more and more evident.


What is happening within other religions that is making Islam so attractive here in the USA?
There is really no forcing going on in the USA.


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## welderguy (Apr 29, 2015)

bullethead said:


> What is happening within other religions that is making Islam so attractive here in the USA?
> There is really no forcing going on in the USA.



Not sure exactly,but I believe it's the working of satan on both ends.Do you agree?


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## ambush80 (Apr 29, 2015)

welderguy said:


> Not sure exactly,but I believe it's the working of satan on both ends.Do you agree?



I have to answer.   

No.  I do not agree.  I don't believe in Satan.  Do you understand how that works?

Why would you ask an agnostic if they thought Satan was involved in _anything_?  It makes me wonder what kind of game you're playing.


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## welderguy (Apr 29, 2015)

ambush80 said:


> I have to answer.
> 
> No.  I do not agree.  I don't believe in Satan.  Do you understand how that works?
> 
> Why would you ask an agnostic if they thought Satan was involved in _anything_?  It makes me wonder what kind of game you're playing.



 I'm not playing any games.Just thought you might agree there's evil involved.


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## bullethead (Apr 30, 2015)

welderguy said:


> Not sure exactly,but I believe it's the working of satan on both ends.Do you agree?


Oh boy, sorry for asking. 
No
Forget it.


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## welderguy (Apr 30, 2015)

bullethead said:


> Oh boy, sorry for asking.
> No
> Forget it.



Surely you are not going to tell me you don't believe in evil?


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## hobbs27 (Apr 30, 2015)

WaltL1 said:


> Just the opposite -
> 
> Christianity suffers the largest net loss at over 66,000,000
> However world wide, all religions combined, will outpace the unaffiliated.



According to the chart, Buddhist are the only group to go into a negative net gain, Christianity net gain is substantially higher than the unaffiliated.

 These are projections that are hard to predict. In the past everytime Christianity has been persecuted or come under attack it grows by leaps and bounds. Tribulation also tends to grow Christianity, and I agree with you all that it's not the work of the devil.


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## bullethead (Apr 30, 2015)

welderguy said:


> Surely you are not going to tell me you don't believe in evil?



Evil as in people committing willful horrific acts, yes.

Satan, no.
Dark powers or forces purposely working against a god, no.
Tasmanian Devil....well now we might be onto something...if we are gonna blame made up characters.

People leaving one religion to go to another is not evil or the work if an evil entity. People within the religion do a good enough job to drive others away and most times those same people just want to blame it on another unknown,  unseen, unprovable force as a cop-out and excuse to pass the buck for the things they do not understand or refuse to try to understand.


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## welderguy (Apr 30, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> I agree with you all that it's not the work of the devil.



Hobbs, you may want to go back and read Eph.6:12-13.


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

How does one _follow_ atheism? It used to be that journalists had professionalism and integrity, but those days are apparently gone because of statements like that.


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## bullethead (Apr 30, 2015)

welderguy said:


> Not sure exactly,but I believe it's the working of satan on both ends.Do you agree?


First you said people were forced out of fear and death. When it was pointed out that certainly is not the case in the USA you went to the default...its gotta be Satan... answer.
Are there no other possibilities in between that may be legitimate reasons?


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## JB0704 (Apr 30, 2015)

Maybe they meant to use "adhere" instead of "follow."


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

JB0704 said:


> Maybe they meant to use "adhere" instead of "follow."



There's nothing to adhere to.


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## JB0704 (Apr 30, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> There's nothing to adhere to.



Sure there is, it's a worldview.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 30, 2015)

welderguy said:


> Hobbs, you may want to go back and read Eph.6:12-13.



OK, I did. They sure had it rough back in those last days didn't they?


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## hummerpoo (Apr 30, 2015)

bullethead said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chris...0.html#cover-3d2ff17102384663927fc1eef59e37c8



I view this as God working in the sociopolitical realm more than an issue of faith.

But that's just the way I see it:

http://


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

JB0704 said:


> Sure there is, it's a worldview.



Hardly unified, let alone codified. 

It's characterized by one criterion, a committed belief that there is no God. Everything else is up to the individual to define.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 30, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> According to the chart, Buddhist are the only group to go into a negative net gain, Christianity net gain is substantially higher than the unaffiliated.
> 
> These are projections that are hard to predict. In the past everytime Christianity has been persecuted or come under attack it grows by leaps and bounds. Tribulation also tends to grow Christianity, and I agree with you all that it's not the work of the devil.


Are we looking at the same chart?
Under Buddhists is Christians with a loss of 66,050,000 highlighted with a red box.


> Christianity net gain is substantially higher than the unaffiliated.


Now that's a different subject.
Yes more people will go in to Christianity than go in to unaffiliated.
But if 5 people go into Christianity and 100 people go out that's not a gain its a loss.
The point of the entire article is Christianity suffering losses not gains.


> These are projections that are hard to predict. In the past everytime Christianity has been persecuted or come under attack it grows by leaps and bounds.


I'll be honest I just don't see the attack or persecution.
These are Christians leaving Christianity. All on their own. It would seem to me the problem isn't persecution its because of whatever reasons they are leaving Christianity.


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## JB0704 (Apr 30, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Hardly unified, let alone codified.
> 
> It's characterized by one criterion, a committed belief that there is no God. Everything else is up to the individual to define.



Yes.  From there the moral codes and behaviors are based on that premise.......which is adhered to.


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

JB0704 said:


> Yes.  From there the moral codes and behaviors are based on that premise.......which is adhered to.



Aren't you guys always saying that, without God, there can be no solid foundation for morality and anything becomes possible?


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## WaltL1 (Apr 30, 2015)

bullethead said:


> Evil as in people committing willful horrific acts, yes.
> 
> Satan, no.
> Dark powers or forces purposely working against a god, no.
> ...


Exactly.
Add in to the equation that its a simple fact that society's views are evolving on a number of subjects. More and more people are viewing it as being held backwards as opposed to moving forward.
So they leave.
Its not the devil, its not persecution. Less and less people are buying whats being sold and even more want a refund.  
Simple as that.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 30, 2015)

WaltL1 said:


> Are we looking at the same chart?
> Under Buddhists is Christians with a loss of 66.050,000 highlighted with a red box.



No we're not looking at the same chart.


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## welderguy (Apr 30, 2015)

bullethead said:


> First you said people were forced out of fear and death. When it was pointed out that certainly is not the case in the USA you went to the default...its gotta be Satan... answer.
> Are there no other possibilities in between that may be legitimate reasons?



I was initially referring to the third world countries where you are beheaded if you are a professing Christian.The fear OF death by the Islamic.Not yet in the U.S.
I'm real sure Satan and evil are involved.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 30, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> No we're not looking at the same chart.


Ok I see which chart you are looking at.
The differences in the numbers is whats happening world wide as opposed to whats happening here.
Its true that worldwide there is a gain while here there is a loss.


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## WaltL1 (Apr 30, 2015)

welderguy said:


> I was initially referring to the third world countries where you are beheaded if you are a professing Christian.The fear OF death by the Islamic.Not yet in the U.S.
> I'm real sure Satan and evil are involved.[/QUOTE]
> As long as you (Christianity) continue to believe that you will ignore the real problems and the decline here will continue.
> Society doesn't see satan causing your problems. Society sees whats on the news and these morons performing "miracles" on tv every Sunday and theme parks and Lear jets and Cadillacs and the hypocricy of it all.
> ...


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## centerpin fan (Apr 30, 2015)

*Christianity in decline?*



bullethead said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chris...0.html#cover-3d2ff17102384663927fc1eef59e37c8



OK, I'm looking at the first chart:  Christianity is currently #1 and is projected to still be #1 in 2050.  Muslims are projected to be slightly ahead of Christianity by 2070.


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

You guys do realize that the root problem is the _Judge Effect_, right? The same _Judge Effect_ from Idiocracy?


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## hobbs27 (Apr 30, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> You guys do realize that the root problem is the _Judge Effect_, right? The same _Judge Effect_ from Idiocracy?



Will you please elaborate?


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> Will you please elaborate?



It's a function that as a society advances, fewer of its inhabitants procreate. Meanwhile, less advanced societies reproduce like rabbits.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 30, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> It's a function that as a society advances, fewer of its inhabitants procreate. Meanwhile, less advanced societies reproduce like rabbits.



Thanks, so what's the solution?


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## StriperrHunterr (Apr 30, 2015)

hobbs27 said:


> Thanks, so what's the solution?



Advanced society needs to have more babies, or less advanced society needs to have fewer. Take your pick. Personally I'm not overly concerned with one religion taking the top of the pedestal over the other, so it doesn't really matter to me.


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## gordon 2 (Apr 30, 2015)

Was talking with folk who visited India a few yrs ago. Non Muslims over there expressed their  worries about Muslims; not so much about their beliefs per say, but simply because they had very large families compared to other groups. The social and political implications were the concerns because views of society and politics were not the same for Muslims as per the status quo.


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 30, 2015)

Excerpt from article



> "And Islam is a religion of social justice. This speaks to blacks, whose experience has (often) been marked by injustice. They don't want to turn the other cheek they've been turning it for 200 years."






> And Islam is a religion of social justice



How true.  Goes hand in hand with 'No Justice, No peace.', where 'Justice' is a PC synonym for 'Revenge', thus 'No Revenge, No Peace.' is a more accurate mantra.  

Again


> They don't want to turn the other cheek



The truth is if people (whatever group or individual) don't learn to forgive there can be no peace.  Forgiveness of ones enemies is not a tenet of Islam.  

Maybe if MLK was alive today he would be carrying a banner that read 'No Forgiveness, No Peace',  but I see no one in the Civil Rights movement today mature enough to foist such courage.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 30, 2015)

> "And Islam is a religion of social justice. This speaks to blacks, whose experience has (often) been marked by injustice. They don't want to turn the other cheek they've been turning it for 200 years."



... which explains why Muslim recruiting in prisons is so successful.


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## ted_BSR (May 5, 2015)

An interesting thread. I don't really care who has the numbers, that has no bearing on who is right. I recognize the hypocrisy of modern Christian religion, Sunday morning healers and leer jets and all. THAT is the devil's work.

What about a pizza shop that is forced to close its doors and then the owners are run out of town because they stated that it would be against their convictions to cater a gay wedding? They didn't even do it, it was a hypothetical statement. Or a florist that is forced out of business for refusing to provide flowers for a gay wedding (mind you the patrons were regular clients of theirs, but they didn't want to support the wedding) but they stood by their religious convictions and paid the price. That smells like persecution.

Political correctness is the horrible lie that should tell you what the truth really is. If it is politically correct, then you can bank in the fact that it is NOT the truth. "You will be made to care." Case in point, the poor poor person formerly known as Bruce. Everyone around him is trying so hard to support him and tell him it is ok, including the national media, when the guy just obviously needs some help.

My 2 cents.


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## ted_BSR (May 5, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> You guys do realize that the root problem is the _Judge Effect_, right? The same _Judge Effect_ from Idiocracy?



Love that flick! I recommend it to anyone (adults) if for nothing else than the comedic value. Brawndo, it has what plants crave!


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## ted_BSR (May 5, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Advanced society needs to have more babies, or less advanced society needs to have fewer. Take your pick. Personally I'm not overly concerned with one religion taking the top of the pedestal over the other, so it doesn't really matter to me.




You sugar coated that a bit...
Dumb people reproduce at alarmingly faster rates than smart people. From the movie folks, not my words.


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## WaltL1 (May 5, 2015)

ted_BSR said:


> An interesting thread. I don't really care who has the numbers, that has no bearing on who is right. I recognize the hypocrisy of modern Christian religion, Sunday morning healers and leer jets and all. THAT is the devil's work.
> 
> What about a pizza shop that is forced to close its doors and then the owners are run out of town because they stated that it would be against their convictions to cater a gay wedding? They didn't even do it, it was a hypothetical statement. Or a florist that is forced out of business for refusing to provide flowers for a gay wedding (mind you the patrons were regular clients of theirs, but they didn't want to support the wedding) but they stood by their religious convictions and paid the price. That smells like persecution.
> 
> ...





> THAT is the devil's work.


So is that it? The End?
Admittedly its really none of my business but from an outsiders view we see Christians getting huffy and puffy about everyone else - "whoa is me we are being persecuted" but completely ignore or at least seemingly don't attempt to fix the real problems -


> the hypocrisy of modern Christian religion, Sunday morning healers and leer jets and all.


Do you know how impressed society would be if next time Westboro Baptist was blocked from spouting their filth at serviceman's funeral by an army of CHRISTIANS instead of an army of bikers?
Or if one of these scam artists walked out on stage Sunday morning and the audience was empty?
We know they are scam artists, a lot of you know they are scam artists. Don't see any of you doing anything about it.
Society gets the impression that if you don't care, why should we? 
In the Marines we had what were called blanket parties where if an individual(s) didn't properly represent our platoon, at night while they were asleep a blanket was stretched over them and held tight so they couldn't move and we proceeded to beat the carp out of them. After that they either got with the program or found a way to get themselves discharged and were gone.
You guys need to start having some Christian blanket parties and maybe gain back some of the respect you are losing because of other "Christians".
It isn't the nonbelievers or other religions or society that's doing the damage to Christianity.........
And of course that's just my opinion.


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## ted_BSR (May 5, 2015)

WaltL1 said:


> So is that it? The End?
> Admittedly its really none of my business but from an outsiders view we see Christians getting huffy and puffy about everyone else - "whoa is me we are being persecuted" but completely ignore or at least seemingly don't attempt to fix the real problems -
> 
> Do you know how impressed society would be if next time Westboro Baptist was blocked from spouting their filth at serviceman's funeral by an army of CHRISTIANS instead of an army of bikers?
> ...



I hear you Walt, but the Marines is a little different. The doctrine of the Marines is not open to debate, and rightly so.

Kreflo Dollar says he needs a spaceship so he can spread the word on Mars. While that sounds ridiculous to me, I am instructed not to judge him. So I don't think I should beat him with a bar of soap in a sock while he is pinned under a blanket. I will speak my mind about it though. I see his behavior as a poor representation of what Christianity truly is, but that is my interpretation and understanding.

I agree that some so-called Christians are a great detriment to the "religion", but this is common in many facets of life. Politicians are commonly the worst enemies of the party they "represent", scientists are often the worst representatives of their discipline, etc.. There is not much we can do about the human condition.

My father was an F-4 pilot. I thank you for your service.

Edited to add: not woe is me! Persecution has been prophesied. I expect it. Blessed am I for the eternal redemption that has been mercifully, graciously, and lovingly provided for me... and you, and every person that would accept it by the one true living God! Hallelujah!


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## hummerpoo (May 6, 2015)

ted_BSR said:


> I hear you Walt, but the Marines is a little different. The doctrine of the Marines is not open to debate, and rightly so.
> 
> Kreflo Dollar says he needs a spaceship so he can spread the word on Mars. While that sounds ridiculous to me, I am instructed not to judge him. So I don't think I should beat him with a bar of soap in a sock while he is pinned under a blanket. I will speak my mind about it though. I see his behavior as a poor representation of what Christianity truly is, but that is my interpretation and understanding.
> 
> ...



Well said, Ted.

I saw blanket parties in the service, but never one that was honorable at it's base.  I think the suggested christian blanket party would have the same problem.

That being said, Scripture is clear on the issue of cleansing the Body, but the church doesn't seem to possess the conviction to follow the guidance given.  I'm confident that we all know what needs to be done about that problem.


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## StriperrHunterr (May 6, 2015)

ted_BSR said:


> You sugar coated that a bit...
> Dumb people reproduce at alarmingly faster rates than smart people. From the movie folks, not my words.



I won't presume that all people in the 3rd world are dumb. I will, however, deduce that increased birth rates in that part of the world have to do with a systemic lack of preventive methods, or religious convictions to not use them, and nothing else to do at night. 

That's the rest of the world. 

Here in 'Murica, you're exactly right, in that exactly the wrong type of people are having too many children compared with their more cautious counterparts.


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## WaltL1 (May 6, 2015)

hummerpoo said:


> Well said, Ted.
> 
> I saw blanket parties in the service, but never one that was honorable at it's base.  I think the suggested christian blanket party would have the same problem.
> 
> That being said, Scripture is clear on the issue of cleansing the Body, but the church doesn't seem to possess the conviction to follow the guidance given.  I'm confident that we all know what needs to be done about that problem.





> I think the suggested christian blanket party would have the same problem.


The intention was that the blanket party would be used as a metaphor for cleaning up those who are making you look bad. Im not suggesting actual violence.
However, the point remains that you will unify over baking or not baking a cake but seem to avoid "your own" that's doing the actual damage.
And again that's only my opinion but I get that opinion from things like when I log on to Facebook and the wall is plastered with stuff from my Christian friends complaining about everybody else under the sun.
But NEVER about their fellow (self proclaimed) "Christians".
Turn on the TV. Christianity is being turned into entertainment. Don't see anybody trying to do anything about that but baking a cake or not sure seems important  
I just don't get it.


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## hummerpoo (May 6, 2015)

WaltL1 said:


> The intention was that the blanket party would be used as a metaphor for cleaning up those who are making you look bad. Im not suggesting actual violence.
> However, the point remains that you will unify over baking or not baking a cake but seem to avoid "your own" that's doing the actual damage.
> And again that's only my opinion but I get that opinion from things like when I log on to Facebook and the wall is plastered with stuff from my Christian friends complaining about everybody else under the sun.
> But NEVER about their fellow (self proclaimed) "Christians".
> ...



I understood your metaphor; sorry I didn't make that clear.

Your criticism of "christianity" is on target.  The Scriptural guidance I referred to is summarized pretty well in 1 Cor. 5:
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.


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## Israel (May 8, 2015)

The parable of a baby and bathwater is never far from the believers mind.
How to not resist the disposal of the "ianity" of themselves while seeking to rightly discern the Christ. The club membership mentality of the "in's and the out's" the elite, and _those others_, who do not know the secret handshake.
Some of you are expert at recognizing and sniffing out this faux cologne, so who would I be to deny this might be the Lord's work in any, or all.
But dare we turn our noses upon ourselves, or are noses only given that we might look down them at one another?


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## Thanatos (May 8, 2015)

On the decline in America and rising in  Africa and Asia. You can't fight fate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html


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## StriperrHunterr (May 8, 2015)

Israel said:


> The parable of a baby and bathwater is never far from the believers mind.
> How to not resist the disposal of the "ianity" of themselves while seeking to rightly discern the Christ. The club membership mentality of the "in's and the out's" the elite, and _those others_, who do not know the secret handshake.
> Some of you are expert at recognizing and sniffing out this faux cologne, so who would I be to deny this might be the Lord's work in any, or all.
> But dare we turn our noses upon ourselves, or are noses only given that we might look down them at one another?



Ya know, as much as I enjoy your wordsmithing, there are times that I wish you would just come out and say that group X is being dumb, for brevity and to clear up the ambiguity.


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## Israel (May 8, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Ya know, as much as I enjoy your wordsmithing, there are times that I wish you would just come out and say that group X is being dumb, for brevity and to clear up the ambiguity.



either a reread or rewrite is in order...even both.


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## StriperrHunterr (May 8, 2015)

Israel said:


> either a reread or rewrite is in order...even both.



I did mean that jovially, of course.


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## Israel (May 8, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Ya know, as much as I enjoy your wordsmithing, there are times that I wish you would just come out and say that group X is being dumb, for brevity and to clear up the ambiguity.



But that is the point, is it not..to assign the "X" is the nature of the thing I most often sense becomes the issue.
Can "rational" man really bear the truth of how often he is led, and moves in and by irrationality... Can "believer" man bear the myriad means of calculations to which he resorts...labeling them as prudence, when they may in truth be a faithlessness he doesn't even perceive of himself?
It is not for shame I say this, but for the sake of the level ground upon which we all stand, forgiven.
The man who can bear the eye he casts upon others, cast upon himself...may discover he needs help in doing so.
There may be a mote, there may be a log, but who can say in which eye, at any time, each appears?


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