# Da Babdists...



## fivesolas (Feb 17, 2009)

Ok, what do you all think of 'em. They just a bunch of southern fried chicken eatin goofies? Or are they as Spurgeon said..



> "We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther and Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel under ground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man..."—Charles H. Spurgeon


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

You really want to go here????


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## dbodkin (Feb 17, 2009)

This ought  to get good....


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## rjcruiser (Feb 17, 2009)

Like in everything...there are some good apples and there are some bad apples.


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## gtparts (Feb 17, 2009)

I am sure some would take particular offense re: _the Church of Rome_ and also _Baptists_. 

The former because we have those adherents among us....and ......

the latter because those among us bearing such a title are not exactly the same in doctrinal application, as those bearing such in CHS's day.

Never the less, I find the thought compelling on several points.

Let me just say that I believe those who follow Christ, as the Disciples did, (less Judas, of course) without the subsequent hierarchical trappings of extra-biblical church government, hold Christianity closest to what truly brings honor and glory to God.

I would refer all to the book of Acts, particularly the earliest chapters for insight to what I mean. There are also many others NT books and passages that highlight Jesus' intentions for His bride.


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## THREEJAYS (Feb 17, 2009)

I go w/ the chicken eat'n


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Ok, what do you all think of 'em. They just a bunch of southern fried chicken eatin goofies? Or are they as Spurgeon said..


 

I do believe that there are certain baptists, I wouldn't dare say all of them, that are descendents of the Original Church.

Now let the  commence...

DB BB


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

Hmmm....you would have to provide examples.  John Bunyan and John Gill are the only ones I can think of....


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## charlieboy (Feb 17, 2009)

*Baptist confession of faith*

First we must define terms. Baptist like Spurgeon adhered to the 1689 confession of faith,Not too many Baptist out there today. The others are ignorant of their own history and the bible,and by definition are not true baptist. I still love those of them that are my brethren.Just out of curiousity, Name those Baptist that go back to the time of the apostles,if I am not mistaken ,the greatest theologians were not Baptist.


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

John the Baptist!

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Hmmm....you would have to provide examples. John Bunyan and John Gill are the only ones I can think of....


 

Those are both great examples...

DB BB


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## charlieboy (Feb 17, 2009)

That's funny!


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## rjcruiser (Feb 17, 2009)

charlieboy said:


> First we must define terms. Baptist like Spurgeon adhered to the 1689 confession of faith,Not too many Baptist out there today.



Agree with that one..

By the way, that is a pretty fj40.  What year is it? '74?


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## charlieboy (Feb 17, 2009)

Hey, Thanks, It is a 69'.


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't think we are talking about specific theologians... but rather a group of people that always adhered to the teachings of the original church...

*Ever read the Trail of Blood?
Following the Christians Down Through the Centuries or The History of Baptist Churches From the Time of Christ, Their Founder, to the Present Day*


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## charlieboy (Feb 17, 2009)

Hey BB, I would imagine that they would have writings, I hope they were Theologians!


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Hmmm....you would have to provide examples.  John Bunyan and John Gill are the only ones I can think of....



Pilgrims progress is one of the worst books I have ever read. I cannot stand that thing. 

Now I am going back to my corner and sit quietly till the appropriate moment to throw dynamite.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Agree with that one..
> 
> By the way, that is a pretty fj40.  What year is it? '74?



I agree that is an awesome fj. I love those things. just too pricey these days.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 17, 2009)

charlieboy said:


> Hey, Thanks, It is a 69'.



I know...but I had a '73 at one time in my life...so I'm partial to cruisers.

figured it was later than '69 based on the top..thought it had the ambi doors in back....but it looks like you've done a laundry list of mods to it.  Is that a SBC under the hood?  (and no, SBC is not southern baptist convention in this case)

I will say, they are pretty difficult to get stuck...anyways...very nice.


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

charlieboy said:


> Hey BB, I would imagine that they would have writings, I hope they were Theologians!


 

Probably so, but I would be willing to bet they were not very popular...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Pilgrims progress is one of the worst books I have ever read. I cannot stand that thing.
> 
> Now I am going back to my corner and sit quietly till the appropriate moment to throw dynamite.


 

You should try listening to it... It about drove me crazy.... I can read it a lot easier than listening to it...

DB BB


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## Lead Poison (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm a member of First Baptist Church of Naples, a Southern Baptist Church...so you know how I feel.


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## Free Willie (Feb 17, 2009)

That is some made up history to counter Rome's claims of Apostolic Succession, which, unlike the "hidden river", can be proven. Not so much with the Catholic Church, which CAN prove any claims of Apostolic Succession.

No offense intended to any Baptists here but any claims of ties to the times of the earliest Apostles is pure speculation and cannot in any way be proven by Spurgeon or anyone else.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 17, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> which CAN prove any claims of Apostolic Succession.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> You should try listening to it... It about drove me crazy.... I can read it a lot easier than listening to it...
> 
> DB BB



I can't imagine... There's a reason illiterates shouldn't write books...


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

I think I better just keep my mouth shut on this topic anymore...

Or else I might have the mods after me...

DB BB


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## fivesolas (Feb 17, 2009)

I love Pilgrims Progress...as well as the other things Bunyan wrote.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I love Pilgrims Progress...as well as the other things Bunyan wrote.



Solas........

We need to talk...


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

charlieboy said:


> First we must define terms. Baptist like Spurgeon adhered to the 1689 confession of faith,Not too many Baptist out there today. The others are ignorant of their own history and the bible,and by definition are not true baptist. I still love those of them that are my brethren.Just out of curiousity, Name those Baptist that go back to the time of the apostles,if I am not mistaken ,the greatest theologians were not Baptist.



Didn't the Baptists have to use the Westminster Confession of Faith...mostly written by Presbyterians....as a guide for the London Baptist Confession of Faith...

I like your postscript...Charlieboy.


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> John the Baptist!
> 
> DB BB



hehehe...We call him John the Baptizer


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## Free Willie (Feb 17, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


>



Why is that funny?


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I love Pilgrims Progress...as well as the other things Bunyan wrote.



Me too...I just reread Pilgrim's Progress not too long ago.  

I would like to read "The Holy War."


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## fivesolas (Feb 17, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Solas........
> 
> We need to talk...



What's is so wrong with Bunyan. I read the statement of faith he wrote. Rock solid.


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## fivesolas (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Didn't the Baptists have to use the Westminster Confession of Faith...mostly written by Presbyterians....as a guide for the London Baptist Confession of Faith...
> 
> I like your postscript...Charlieboy.



Actually, no. But they did use it as a guide. There is a lot of uniformity and agreement between the 1689 and the Westminster. Very, very godly men on both sides. 

But the Westminster was not the only one used.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 17, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Why is that funny?



Because it is hogwash.  But, I've been down that road before....not going to go down it again.  

I understand that you believe it....but I don't.


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

Here is the comparison of the LBC and the WCF...word for word....side by side...

It is interesting to me that while there are differences...paedobaptism, church polity, and Theonomy....

Presbyterians and Baptists used to have a lot more in common than they do today....

http://www.proginosko.com/docs/wcf_lbcf.html


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## Free Willie (Feb 17, 2009)

You are entitled to your opinion, even though it's a false opinion. I can go through the entire list of Popes, if you'd like. It's there and it's documented with names and dates. The same cannot be said of the so called "early Baptists". 

Can you provide proof that my version is, as you call it, "hogwash"?


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## fivesolas (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Here is the comparison of the LBC and the WCF...word for word....side by side...
> 
> It is interesting to me that while there are differences...paedobaptism, church polity, and Theonomy....
> 
> ...



Nice that he made the chart and everything, but it does not cover the history surrounding the formation of the 1689. And, with him coming from the WCF side, I would expect his bias to lean his way...

So, let's not overstate the case nor create a rift that doesn't exist. Not every Baptist congregation has adopted the 1689. Mine does.

Oh, and I would fight Theonomy to my dying breath. I love freedom.


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Nice that he made the chart and everything, but it does not cover the history surrounding the formation of the 1689. And, with him coming from the WCF side, I would expect his bias to lean his way...
> 
> So, let's not overstate the case nor create a rift that doesn't exist. Not every Baptist congregation has adopted the 1689. Mine does.
> 
> Oh, and I would fight Theonomy to my dying breath. I love freedom.



I just posted it for information purposes...really to show the similarities...not so much the differences.  

You, my friend, are a true "Reformed" Baptist....Your Theonomy comment is exactly what I hear from my other Reformed Baptist friends....

True freedom for the Christian will only come as a result of God's Law being our standard for justice.  Without it....what becomes our standard...fallible man.   Tyranny thrives as a result of this...just look at the United States today.

We could always start a new thread on what our understanding of Theonomy is....  I am game.


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## Double Barrel BB (Feb 17, 2009)

banjo said:


> true freedom for the christian will only come as a result of god's law being our standard for justice. Without it....what becomes our standard...fallible man. Tyranny thrives as a result of this...just look at the united states today.


 

*amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

> So, let's not overstate the case nor create a rift that doesn't exist.



I got to thinking about this comment....Do you not think that the Spurgeon quote already overstated the case and may have created a rift or two???


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> What's is so wrong with Bunyan. I read the statement of faith he wrote. Rock solid.



Like I said that is better left to a discussion one day. Never have read his statement of faith. Just Pilgrims Progress.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Nice that he made the chart and everything, but it does not cover the history surrounding the formation of the 1689. And, with him coming from the WCF side, I would expect his bias to lean his way...
> 
> So, let's not overstate the case nor create a rift that doesn't exist. Not every Baptist congregation has adopted the 1689. Mine does.
> 
> Oh, and I would fight Theonomy to my dying breath. I love freedom.



Theonomy is a subject I am not at all well versed on but am studying at the moment. As of right now we might agree. But I would have to hear a good argument on the other side before settling on that conclusion.


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## jason4445 (Feb 17, 2009)

Being a casual observer and friend, acquaintance, and neighbor to uncountable Southern Baptists, over the years they have provided me with unlimited entertainment.

I have never seen one group or organization that can fuss, fight, argue, get divorced, separate and splinter off one another over the littlest things, and still stay together.  Around here some of their Deacon meetings have been legendary and on two occasions at the First Baptist during meetings some have asked others to remove themselves from church grounds to settle their conflicts with fists.

From what I have seen it really seems to be the women that really hold the whole organization together but then the women cannot be ministers.

However, throughout the 60's and 70's they were mostly able to fill a 500 seat First Church sanctuary full every Sunday.

And I think their secret is they have taken a very complicated religion like Christianity, and over the years boiled it down to three things you do and then no matter what else you do or think, you will get to heaven.  

Those three things are believe, go to church every Sunday, and tithe.  Sometimes I actually admire them for it.


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Theonomy is a subject I am not at all well versed on but am studying at the moment. As of right now we might agree. But I would have to hear a good argument on the other side before settling on that conclusion.



Read Greg Bahnsen (Theonomy and Christian Ethics, By This Standard), R.J. Rushdoony (The Institutes of Biblical Law) or Gary North (Tools of Dominion).  I don't always agree with the latter two about other issues, but they make some great points and are an INTERESTING read.

I don't know of anyone who has ever been able to refute Bahnsen's works on Theonomy.  I am not sure if anyone has ever even seriously tried.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Read Greg Bahnsen (Theonomy and Christian Ethics, By This Standard), R.J. Rushdoony (The Institutes of Biblical Law) or Gary North (Tools of Dominion).  I don't always agree with the latter two about other issues, but they make some great points and are an INTERESTING read.
> 
> I don't know of anyone who has ever been able to refute Bahnsen's works on Theonomy.  I am not sure if anyone has ever even seriously tried.



I will. Also am going to call your other half this week sometime to discuss this. But I am generally on the phone ignoring some PIA while reading and doing all this... So one phone call at a time...


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## Ronnie T (Feb 17, 2009)

The Florida Baptist College is located a couple of block from my house.  Through the years I've been told several times that the Baptist church was established when people began leaving the Catholic church because of so many of it's false doctrines and incorrect teachings.  One of which was the Catholics practice of "sprinkling" rather than baptizing(submerse).  Thus, they were known as the Baptist.
I'm not Baptist so I don't know.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> The Florida Baptist College is located a couple of block from my house.  Through the years I've been told several times that the Baptist church was established when people began leaving the Catholic church because of so many of it's false doctrines and incorrect teachings.  One of which was the Catholics practice of "sprinkling" rather than baptizing(submerse).  Thus, they were known as the Baptist.
> I'm not Baptist so I don't know.



Really??? I thought it was the drinking and dancing...


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## gregg dudley (Feb 17, 2009)

Jason 4445


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## Banjo (Feb 17, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I will. Also am going to call your other half this week sometime to discuss this. But I am generally on the phone ignoring some PIA while reading and doing all this... So one phone call at a time...



Give him a "holler."  

You are going to have to multitask better...After all, that is what Jack Bauer would do.  He can torture people with a ball point pen, while listening to Chloe give him the schematics of a building, while reloading, while devising an escape route which includes laying in the floor board of a car and driving it over the top of a parking lot....all while Federal Agents and Communist Guerillas are shooting at him with automatic weapons and oozies....

Man...he is good.  I am thinking about changing my youngest child's name to Jackie Bauer...


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## celticfisherman (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Give him a "holler."
> 
> You are going to have to multitask better...After all, that is what Jack Bauer would do.  He can torture people with a ball point pen, while listening to Chloe give him the schematics of a building, while reloading, while devising an escape route which includes laying in the floor board of a car and driving it over the top of a parking lot....all while Federal Agents and Communist Guerillas are shooting at him with automatic weapons and oozies....
> 
> Man...he is good.  I am thinking about changing my youngest child's name to Jackie Bauer...



I only aspire to JBness...

I could torture terrorists and talk business at the same time though. Just sit and throw hotdogs at them...


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## gtparts (Feb 17, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Give him a "holler."
> 
> You are going to have to multitask better...After all, that is what Jack Bauer would do.  He can torture people with a ball point pen, while listening to Chloe give him the schematics of a building, while reloading, while devising an escape route which includes laying in the floor board of a car and driving it over the top of a parking lot....all while Federal Agents and Communist Guerillas are shooting at him with automatic weapons and oozies....
> 
> Man...he is good.  I am thinking about changing my youngest child's name to Jackie Bauer...



Automatic weapons I understand, but oozies?

 Are your chocolate eclairs leaking?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> John the Baptist!
> 
> DB BB



John the Baptist

and I'm Annie the Baptist and that's about all I gotta say about that...nothing else need to be said.


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## Israel (Feb 18, 2009)

Can't help but think every effort to "identify with the right group" is in itself carnal, and can never have any benefit.
If there truly is no boast for any singular man as to his being a member of the body of Christ, why would one therefore extend that by boasting of the particular "type" of body to which one believes they belong?
Unless of course. one were looking for a backdoor to boast of the flesh.
Why do we think God is stupid?


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I just posted it for information purposes...really to show the similarities...not so much the differences.
> 
> You, my friend, are a true "Reformed" Baptist....Your Theonomy comment is exactly what I hear from my other Reformed Baptist friends....
> 
> ...



If it means a church-state, even a protestant one, I have no interest in discussing it. Too many Protestants persecuted Baptists and others with their church-state.


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I got to thinking about this comment....Do you not think that the Spurgeon quote already overstated the case and may have created a rift or two???



No, I think if Spurgeon didn't believe that he wouldn't be a Baptist.


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## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> Does your record only have one song or is the scratch so bad it just skips back to the same spot everytime?



When the same sheet music is handed out, each instrumentalist gets the same notes to play. When it is "Denominations", Israel prefers pianissimo, not forte.

I must say, sometimes I wish those who enjoy forte would take a rest.


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## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> No, I think if Spurgeon didn't believe that he wouldn't be a Baptist.




Ditto. I believe CH was far more enamored of Jesus than he was of Baptists. That being said, I believe he saw Baptists as exhibiting the least characteristics of a "denominational lint roller".


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> Does your record only have one song or is the scratch so bad it just skips back to the same spot everytime?



Kind of wondering that myself. It's like a mini denominational creed...


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> If it means a church-state, even a protestant one, I have no interest in discussing it. Too many Protestants persecuted Baptists and others with their church-state.



Yeah but the problem is we didn't do it well enough...


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## Banjo (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> If it means a church-state, even a protestant one, I have no interest in discussing it. Too many Protestants persecuted Baptists and others with their church-state.



This is a common misconception.  Both Testaments evidence a separation of church and state as to their functions.  The church and state, though separate from each other, are united under the authority of God.  

Christ does not merely rule in His church, leaving the world governments to Satan.  All authorities, whether ecclesiastical or civil, are under His divine rule.  

I won't hijack your thread...we can start another one if there is  any interest...


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Yeah but the problem is we didn't do it well enough...



Are you suggesting that you (the "we") should have murdered all the Baptists?


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

Banjo said:


> This is a common misconception.  Both Testaments evidence a separation of church and state as to their functions.  The church and state, though separate from each other, are united under the authority of God.
> 
> Christ does not merely rule in His church, leaving the world governments to Satan.  All authorities, whether ecclesiastical or civil, are under His divine rule.
> 
> I won't hijack your thread...we can start another one if there is  any interest...



Thread started.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Are you suggesting that you (the "we") should have murdered all the Baptists?



Nope just that we should have done a better job running them out.


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Nope just that we should have done a better job running them out.



My case proved. God prevailed and ran the persecutors out of the state. Good ridance.

And let me add something...any Protestant will have to spill my blood before they rule my conscience.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> My case proved. God prevailed and ran the persecutors out of the state. Good ridance.
> 
> And let me add something...any Protestant will have to spill my blood before they rule my conscience.



I think solas you need to get off the high horse on this issue. You are worse than the Catholics on this one. Baptists have not been good for this part of the country. The Baptist church gov't allows too much room for individual ideas to be taught and ran with. It does not promote the general education of its ministers or leaders. It does not promote a proper understanding of Communion, Baptism, or the idea of Grace. The Baptist theology that has now taken hold with people like Jenkins and LaHaye is more damaging to Christianity today than anything Dan Brown could ever write.

Don't drink, don't dance, don't go with girls who do... And boycott everything you don't agree with. Withdraw from the world don't affect change in it thru the people. This is an aftereffect of the pre-millennial dispensationalism and the hide from the world mentality prevalent in the denomination. 

Of course since the denomination  was not run out we have had to deal with the rule making and legalistic interpretation of everything. The list of can'ts is longer than the list of let's. There are more rules involved than Love. There are more rules because the understanding of God's Grace and Covenant is not there.


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## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I think solas you need to get off the high horse on this issue. You are worse than the Catholics on this one. Baptists have not been good for this part of the country. The Baptist church gov't allows too much room for individual ideas to be taught and ran with. It does not promote the general education of its ministers or leaders. It does not promote a proper understanding of Communion, Baptism, or the idea of Grace. The Baptist theology that has now taken hold with people like Jenkins and LaHaye is more damaging to Christianity today than anything Dan Brown could ever write.
> 
> Don't drink, don't dance, don't go with girls who do... And boycott everything you don't agree with. Withdraw from the world don't affect change in it thru the people. This is an aftereffect of the pre-millennial dispensationalism and the hide from the world mentality prevalent in the denomination.
> 
> Of course since the denomination  was not run out we have had to deal with the rule making and legalistic interpretation of everything. The list of can'ts is longer than the list of let's. There are more rules involved than Love. There are more rules because the understanding of God's Grace and Covenant is not there.



Broad brush............little paint...............less than thorough preparation (research).......altogether unsubstantiated claims

celticfisherman, this is far from the level I have come to expect from you. You obviously have issues with Baptists. So be it. Nevertheless, you might be charitable enough to give a more balanced picture. Knowing the hearts and minds of many Baptists, I am mildly put off by some of your characterizations. Perhaps a more gentle approach would serve to more accurately display the "baby" while still recognizing the "dirty bath water", which in my opinion is little.


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I think solas you need to get off the high horse on this issue. You are worse than the Catholics on this one. Baptists have not been good for this part of the country. The Baptist church gov't allows too much room for individual ideas to be taught and ran with. It does not promote the general education of its ministers or leaders. It does not promote a proper understanding of Communion, Baptism, or the idea of Grace. The Baptist theology that has now taken hold with people like Jenkins and LaHaye is more damaging to Christianity today than anything Dan Brown could ever write.
> 
> Don't drink, don't dance, don't go with girls who do... And boycott everything you don't agree with. Withdraw from the world don't affect change in it thru the people. This is an aftereffect of the pre-millennial dispensationalism and the hide from the world mentality prevalent in the denomination.
> 
> Of course since the denomination  was not run out we have had to deal with the rule making and legalistic interpretation of everything. The list of can'ts is longer than the list of let's. There are more rules involved than Love. There are more rules because the understanding of God's Grace and Covenant is not there.



Wow. I didn't know you hated Baptists. just wow. 

We're done.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> Broad brush............little paint...............less than thorough preparation (research).......altogether unsubstantiated claims
> 
> celticfisherman, this is far from the level I have come to expect from you. You obviously have issues with Baptists. So be it. Nevertheless, you might be charitable enough to give a more balanced picture. Knowing the hearts and minds of many Baptists, I am mildly put off by some of your characterizations. Perhaps a more gentle approach would serve to more accurately display the "baby" while still recognizing the "dirty bath water", which in my opinion is little.




Maybe. But going from my experience my knowledge of the baptist church and like I said I was going to wait this one out. But the idea that Baptists are the "ONES" and the only reason for religious freedom is preposterous. 

Please explain the unsubstantiated claims. Not arguing just asking where I missed.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Wow. I didn't know you hated Baptists. just wow.
> 
> We're done.



I said I would stay out of it for a while.

I don't hate baptists just have no use for the denomination's teachings and leanings. Shoot you should have figured that out by now.


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I said I would stay out of it for a while.
> 
> I don't hate baptists just have no use for the denomination's teachings and leanings. Shoot you should have figured that out by now.



The disdain I am getting from you is surprising to me. It amounts, in my opinion, to hating the brothers and sisters of Christ. 

Not many things floor me. This did.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> The disdain I am getting from you is surprising to me. It amounts, in my opinion, to hating the brothers and sisters of Christ.
> 
> Not many things floor me. This did.



Funny coming from someone so openly hostile to so many Catholic and other protestant views.


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## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Funny coming from someone so openly hostile to so many Catholic and other protestant views.



So you counter with trying to critcize me? I love all the brethren in Christ. Do you love your Baptist brethren who belong to Jesus?


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> So you counter with trying to critcize me? I love all the brethren in Christ. Do you love your Baptist brethren who belong to Jesus?



Yes. I am criticizing an institution and what it promotes. Not the individuals. I never said they were worshipping a false God or the anti-christ or that they were evil. All of my post was about the institution and it's current beliefs and what it has taught in the past.

One of my closest friends is a Baptist minister. Another is Presbyterian minister and still yet another is an Episcopal Priest.

Do you love your Catholic or Anglican brothers and sisters in Christ?


----------



## fivesolas (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Yes. I am criticizing an institution and what it promotes. Not the individuals. I never said they were worshipping a false God or the anti-christ or that they were evil. All of my post was about the institution and it's current beliefs and what it has taught in the past.
> 
> One of my closest friends is a Baptist minister. Another is Presbyterian minister and still yet another is an Episcopal Priest.
> 
> Do you love your Catholic or Anglican brothers and sisters in Christ?



I have not met many Roman Catholics who are in Christ. I don't know any Anglicans. But if they truly belong to Christ, and so are my true brethren and not false, yes.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I have not met many Roman Catholics who are in Christ. I don't know any Anglicans. But if they truly belong to Christ, and so are my true brethren and not false, yes.



Well I seem to have more tolerance for baptists than you do for Catholics.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Feb 18, 2009)

Being Baptist... I have to say, I am Shocked...

Celtic,

You are painting the institution Baptist... Could that be Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist... or just all Baptist?

DB BB


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Maybe. But going from my experience my knowledge of the baptist church and like I said I was going to wait this one out. But the idea that Baptists are the "ONES" and the only reason for religious freedom is preposterous.
> 
> Please explain the unsubstantiated claims. Not arguing just asking where I missed.



Seems to me every group thinks they are the ONES, don't they?
If I didn't think what my Baptist church taught was correct, I'd be a hypocryt for going there now wouldn't I? Doesn't mean that I think ALL other groups are wrong. I could probably go to a Methodist church or many other churches and feel right at home. What group do you think is the "ONES"?

I say Christians are the ONES

And your posts are not very Christian like and whoever taught you to be so judgemental and insulting and non- accepting of ALL the children of God, is certainly incorrect teaching.  Kettle meet pot.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Being Baptist... I have to say, I am Shocked...
> 
> Celtic,
> 
> ...



Independent Baptists here and SBC. I am not familiar with ALL the different versions only the ones I have attended and that's Primitive, Independent, and SBC.


----------



## dawg2 (Feb 18, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I have not met many Roman Catholics who are in Christ. I don't know any Anglicans. But if they truly belong to Christ, and so are my true brethren and not false, yes.



That is idiotic.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Seems to me every group thinks they are the ONES, don't they?
> If I didn't think what my Baptist church taught was correct, I'd be a hypocryt for going there now wouldn't I? Doesn't mean that I think ALL other groups are wrong. I could probably go to a Methodist church or many other churches and feel right at home. What group do you think is the "ONES"?
> 
> I say Christians are the ONES
> ...



I am being very judgmental here I admit. But I also said I have no use for the denomination and how it is being presented here which is as "the ONE". 

And please let's not get into all the children of God. Where were you when they attack Catholics. Are they not Children of God. 

If you could go to Methodist, Baptist, or Presbyterian and feel comfortable then either they or you don't know the teachings of each. It is not that one is more christian than another. It is interpretation of specific ideas.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> That is idiotic.



Guess I am going to have to go join Free Willie, Dawg2, Big7, and Dominic for communion...


----------



## dawg2 (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I am being very judgmental here I admit. But I also said I have no use for the denomination and how it is being presented here which is as "the ONE".
> 
> And please let's not get into all the children of God. Where were you when they attack Catholics. Are they not Children of God.
> 
> If you could go to Methodist, Baptist, or Presbyterian and feel comfortable then either they or you don't know the teachings of each. It is not that one is more christian than another. It is interpretation of specific ideas.



MANY people only care when it strikes them directly.  Otherwise, they don't care.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> People only care when it strikes them directly.  Otherwise, they don't care.



True...


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I said I would stay out of it for a while.
> 
> I don't hate baptists just have no use for the denomination's teachings and leanings. Shoot you should have figured that out by now.



This is from my church, please go thru each one and tell me what is incorrect about the belief/teaching, I'd be very interested in what you believe regarding these and please provide scripture to substantuate your differences....and post what you believe should be corrected.
http://www.northashevillebaptist.org/newhere.php

Introduction to our beliefs

• In the essential beliefs we have to have unity (Ephesians 4:4-6)
• In the non-essential beliefs we have to have liberty (Romans 14-15)
• In all our beliefs we have to have love (I Corinthians 13)

What does this mean?

All of us come from different backgrounds and cultures where we have developed preferences which are called non-essential beliefs. These are beliefs that we hold very dear because it is what we have learned to become accustomed to. Because of this we may differ in our opinion on certain topics and we can both still be right. The non-essential beliefs can be found in the style of Christian music we listen to, in the type of clothes we wear to church and in the translation of scripture we read. Whatever your preference, it must never bring division in the body of Christ.

In the area of essential beliefs, those areas where the Bible is very clear, we must stand united together and never compromise these biblical truths. Examples of these essential beliefs are listed below. Our convictions rest solely on biblical doctrine and not preference.


List of essential beliefs


1. We believe in the Holy Scriptures as the very Word of God (II Tim 3:16)
2. We believe there is only one God eternally existent in three persons (I John 5:1-8)
3. We believe in the deity and virgin birth of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14)
4. We believe in the person and ministry of God the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-14)
5. We believe that heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- are both real and eternal places (Rev. 20-21)
6. We believe all men are by nature and choice sinful and lost (Rom 3:10-23)
7. We believe salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:8-9)
8. We believe in the existence and final defeat of Satan (Rev. 20:1-10)
9. We believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ (I Thess. 4:13-18)
10. We believe in the eternal life and preservation of all saints (John 6:40)
11. We believe in the priesthood of the believers (Heb. 4:15-16)
12. We believe the New Testament Church is an organized body of believers (Eph 4:11-16)
13. We believe that the church has two God given ordinances: Baptism and The Lords Supper (Matt. 28:16-20; I Cor. 11:23-24)
14. We believe that the church is financially supported by the faithful giving of believers through their tithes and offerings. (I Cor. 16:1-2; Malachi 3:6-10)


----------



## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Maybe. But going from my experience my knowledge of the baptist church and like I said I was going to wait this one out. But the idea that Baptists are the "ONES" and the only reason for religious freedom is preposterous.



I think one would not have to dig too deep in the religious and secular record of the last 2000 years to conclude that many have suffered and died, under the banner of Christ, various denominations therein being represented and also under other banners and no banners at all, for the sake of religious freedom and freedom in general.

I doubt if fivesolas truly has a problem with that. 

But, as to the formative years of the U.S., pre-, during, and post-Revolution, history bears out the significant and leading nature that Baptists had in securing the religious freedom we enjoy. And many did it with their blood!







celticfisherman said:


> Please explain the unsubstantiated claims. Not arguing just asking where I missed.



Your words:

"The Baptist theology that has now taken hold with people like Jenkins and LaHaye is more damaging to Christianity today than anything Dan Brown could ever write."

Stated as fact, rather than opinion.....no supporting evidence that this is the case.

Your words:

"And boycott everything you don't agree with. Withdraw from the world don't affect change in it thru the people. This is an aftereffect of the pre-millennial dispensationalism and the hide from the world mentality prevalent in the denomination."

Sounds more like they are engaging some particular areas that they find non-Christ-like, rather than shrinking from the world. I don't believe they "boycott everything (they) don't agree with". They appear rather selective.

How do you arrive at your conclusion as to the cause of the "aftereffect?

How do Baptists, who collectively fund and send a large percentage of the missionaries at work today spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, show a "hide from the world mentality"? 

I honestly believe you initiated this post from somewhere in your psyche where you harbor ill feelings toward Baptists. Such bias usually comes from a reaction to specific triggers.
Would you like to recline on the examination couch while we "talk"?


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Feb 18, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> That is idiotic.


 

Dawg,

Before I met you and some others here... I could say the same thing...

DB BB


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> This is from my church, please go thru each one and tell me what is incorrect about the belief/teaching, I'd be very interested in what you believe regarding these and please provide scripture to substantuate your differences....and post what you believe should be corrected.
> http://www.northashevillebaptist.org/newhere.php
> 
> Introduction to our beliefs
> ...



Did you read my first post?

Where's your form of gov't? Your eschatology? Your requirements  for being a minister?


----------



## dawg2 (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> ....But, as to the formative years of the U.S., pre-, during, and post-Revolution, history bears out the significant and leading nature that Baptists had in securing the religious freedom we enjoy. And many did it with their blood!



Why didn't Baptists push to get "God" put in our Pledge of allegiance like Catholics did?  

Many religions have had a hand in religious freedom.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Feb 18, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> People only care when it strikes them directly. Otherwise, they don't care.


 

That is not true...  I stepped in last time and asked everyone to behave....


DB BB


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I am being very judgmental here I admit. But I also said I have no use for the denomination and how it is being presented here which is as "the ONE".
> 
> And please let's not get into all the children of God. Where were you when they attack Catholics. Are they not Children of God.
> 
> If you could go to Methodist, Baptist, or Presbyterian and feel comfortable then either they or you don't know the teachings of each. It is not that one is more christian than another. It is interpretation of specific ideas.



Yes I realize that....but if I visit in another town and am ask to go to church, which is methodist, by my mother in law, I'm not going to turn her down. She's 85. I just go to church with her.  I don't move in the church or camp out there forever or sit there and chew nails because they say something I don't believe. I just visit and continue being a baptist....LOVE is a commandment of Jesus and I love my mother in law enough to take her from the nursing home to whatever church she chooses.

No I don't jump in the middle of a battle about the catholic faith, because I don't know enough about it to do so. You like many others here don't read my posts, if you read back during many of these heated discussions amongst churches I have said....."mostly Jesus wouldn't like us feuding with each other".  So I don't defend anybody except myself, and I'm a Baptist....but I don't talk about running other faiths out...that's just downright unChristlike.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> I think one would not have to dig too deep in the religious and secular record of the last 2000 years to conclude that many have suffered and died, under the banner of Christ, various denominations therein being represented and also under other banners and no banners at all, for the sake of religious freedom and freedom in general.
> 
> I doubt if fivesolas truly has a problem with that.
> 
> ...



The current SBC eschatology as I understand it and was taught by baptist ministers is the Rapture pretrib period. Waiting on an Anti-Christ. This affects several portions of my post.

1. Missionaries- They are not even close to the amount that Africa and Asia send in the form of Anglican or Catholic missionaries.
2. Hide from the world- Boycotting disney world. This is the most popular example. Not changing anything. Just boycotting it making it more popular. Not going there and loving the people that are there to march in gay parades or whatever else happens to be it.
3. If you are currently waiting on the imminent return and believe fully that this is the end what do you do? Do you worry about education, art, do you build libraries and universities (yes I have been to Liberty and Bob Jones)?  

As to triggers- Yeah it is a sore spot with me which is why I took it as long as I could.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Did you read my first post?
> 
> Where's your form of gov't? Your eschatology? Your requirements  for being a minister?



I'm not responding to your first post, now am I??

You said our beliefs were wrong. Explain to me which ones you don't agree with.

And I will work on this OTHER question you have posed.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I'm not responding to your first post, now am I??
> 
> You said our beliefs were wrong. Explain to me which ones you don't agree with.
> 
> And I will work on this OTHER question you have posed.



I explained which ones were wrong.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Independent Baptists here and SBC. I am not familiar with ALL the different versions only the ones I have attended and that's Primitive, Independent, and SBC.


 

How about Soverign Grace Baptist?

DB BB


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I said I would stay out of it for a while.
> 
> I don't hate baptists just have no use for the denomination's teachings and leanings. Shoot you should have figured that out by now.



This is what I was responding to.
Please tell me the teaching and leanings specifically named by my church that you have no use for.

You brought it up and please back it up. I'm very interested in your difference of belief.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I explained which ones were wrong.



Where?


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Where?



My first post.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> The current SBC eschatology as I understand it and was taught by baptist ministers is the Rapture pretrib period. Waiting on an Anti-Christ. This affects several portions of my post.
> 
> 1. Missionaries- They are not even close to the amount that Africa and Asia send in the form of Anglican or Catholic missionaries.
> 2. Hide from the world- Boycotting disney world. This is the most popular example. Not changing anything. Just boycotting it making it more popular. Not going there and loving the people that are there to march in gay parades or whatever else happens to be it.
> ...



Ok here we go....

My best friend and her husband are practicing Catholics, they have a condo share thingy at Disney.
His father is Catholic, they also have a share condo at disney.

I'm out of here.....

We have marched IN our town the day the gays had their parade...wanna see my tshirt to prove it.  Not to condemn them but hopefully to be there in case any would like to talk.
We have a prolife rally often, wanna see my tshirt?

Bob Jones University cost more than the Vatican? 

Yeah I'm outta here...don't need to be lion food today.

Y'all get along ya hear.
Get off this forum and go do something for your neighbor.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Ok here we go....
> 
> My best friend and her husband are practicing Catholics, they have a condo share thingy at Disney.
> His father is Catholic, they also have a share condo at disney.
> ...



No offense here but I am not even sure what you are talking about?


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> My first post.



I wasn't responding to your first post.

And you can spill my blood or tar and feather me and run me out on a rail if you wanna, but thank God I'm not held accountable to your standards.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I wasn't responding to your first post.
> 
> And you can spill my blood or tar and feather me and run me out on a rail if you wanna, but thank God I'm not held accountable to your standards.
> 
> ...



Where have I set my standards? How do you know what they are? How do you know? This is the problem when you get into this subject. There's a lot of this but no answers.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

I sure can say one thing, I'm surprised....I've been beaten on a daily basis on a pagan, atheist, agnostic forum..and I mean daily, defending the Bible, I never expected to feel so rejected as I do here.


----------



## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Why didn't Baptists push to get "God" put in our National Anthem like Catholics did?
> 
> Many religions have had a hand in religious freedom.



Not sure how the National Anthem relates to religious freedom in this country and not up to speed on the "why", unless it relates to the sense of religious freedom they sought for all Americans. Verses to the anthem have been added over several decades, as late as the 1860s, but usually only the first is sung with any regularity.

As for the last of your post,.....is there an echo in here?.....I thought I expressed that same sentiment.

Love ya', dawg2


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I sure can say one thing, I'm surprised....I've been beaten on a daily basis on a pagan, atheist, agnostic forum..and I mean daily, defending the Bible, I never expected to feel so rejected as I do here.



Again where???

But I feel like I am chasing an invisible man.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Where have I set my standards? How do you know what they are? How do you know? This is the problem when you get into this subject. There's a lot of this but no answers.



Running out the baptists? those weren't your words? That's how I know what your standards are by what you say.....gee.
That's why I posted what my church believes... OUR church's mission is.

You mentioned communion didn't you? So you're just going in circles. If you get an answer you don't like, you fling it over to another post of yours that I didn't even respond to.  Here's we go around in circles.

Anyway
God Bless Everyone


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> I have one of these,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> I have one of these,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I'm sure you'd enjoy putting it on me...
I think that's mean. Y'all's teachings sure are showing today...where's your mama?


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Again where???
> 
> But I feel like I am chasing an invisible man.



You're chasing a man (yourself) but you ain't invisable.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Running out the babtists? those weren't your words? That's how I know what your standards are by what you say.....gee.
> That's why I posted what my church believes... OUR church's mission is.
> 
> You mentioned communion didn't you? So you're just going in circles. If you get an answer you don't like, you fling it over to another post of yours that I didn't even respond to.  Here's we go around in circles.
> ...




Yes I said that and said why.

Communion is not a when you feel like it once a qtr thing. Baptism is not only being dunked and keep doing it till it takes.

I've answered the questions. It surprises me the personal nature you have taken with me having issues with a denomination.


----------



## Ronnie T (Feb 18, 2009)

All of the Baptist churches in my area seem to co-exist with all Christians no matter their beliefs or church affiliation.  I've been invited to speak at more than one Baptist church brotherhood meeting, etc.
I grew up with many of them.
But, many of them aren't real happy about some of the things that are being taught at their Bible college here.  I couldn't tell you why though.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> You're chasing a man (yourself) but you ain't invisable.



never mind.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I've answered the questions. It surprises me the personal nature you have taken with me having issues with a denomination.



Weren't you just crying about catholics not being defended? Wait i'll go find the post, you may have circled around it.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I've answered the questions. It surprises me the personal nature you have taken with me having issues with a denomination.



Yeah well since it does, you gotta keep on jabbing don't you? You can put the crown of thorns away, no one has to wear that, Jesus did that for us. That was totally uncalled for and laughed at by you...that in itself was intentional towards me and posted to me.

So needless to say.....I WILL DEFEND what I believe and I won't try to hurt or belittle anyone else's beliefs.....that is what I was taught as  Baptist, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 
Catholics don't like being condemned, and I don't blame them, so guess what I don't do it, out of love, as Christ calls us to do.
And I'm not speaking just for myself.
I will die for my faith...and be persecuted....and roll with the punches.

I usually just come here to get what I need to deal with how some people treat Christians in general out in the world...wow it's the same here.

Have a good day.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Weren't you just crying about catholics not being defended? Wait i'll go find the post, you may have circled around it.



From personal attacks. I have not attacked you personally nor said you were going to he!!.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Yeah well since it does, you gotta keep on jabbing don't you? You can put the crown of thorns away, no one has to wear that, Jesus did that for us. That was totally uncalled for and laughed at by you...that in itself was intentional towards me and posted to me.
> 
> So needless to say.....I WILL DEFEND what I believe and I won't try to hurt or belittle anyone else's beliefs.....that is what I was taught as  Baptist, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
> Catholics don't like being condemned, and I don't blame them, so guess what I don't do it, out of love, as Christ calls us to do.
> ...



Sounds to me like dying for being a Baptist is more important than being a Christian.


----------



## Lead Poison (Feb 18, 2009)

I've always considered (and publicly recognized) those who are members of the Roman Catholic church as my brothers and sisters in Christ. 

Do I have issues with the Roman Catholic church, yes. And they have issues with my Southern Baptist faith.  However, I've always believed it was wrong to cause those differences to be huge stumbling blocks or reasons to launch personal attacks.

Jesus is far more important than either the Roman Catholic our Southern Baptist churches!

Let's allow each other to worship the way we personally choose and cling together on some of the common ground we share!


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Sounds to me like dying for being a Baptist is more important than being a Christian.



Ok I give up....you win....sounds like you're circling for the kill, I'd really better run now.

Sounds like? reading my mind? skewing my words? 

I'd die for my belief in Christ....that should clear that up.


----------



## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

*My comments....*

in red.



celticfisherman said:


> The current SBC eschatology as I understand it and was taught by baptist ministers is the Rapture pretrib period. Waiting on an Anti-Christ. This affects several portions of my post.
> 
> I have studied and considered the merits of the various eschatological branches and have found varying support for virtually all of them, pre-trib included. I believe such concerted effort is not much more than majoring on the minors.
> 
> ...


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

Lead Poison said:


> I've always considered (and publicly recognized) those who are members of the Roman Catholic church as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
> 
> Do I have issues with the Roman Catholic church, yes. And they have issues with my Southern Baptist faith.  However, I've always believed it was wrong to cause those differences to be huge stumbling blocks or reasons to launch personal attacks.
> 
> ...



I agree.


----------



## dawg2 (Feb 18, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> That is not true...  I stepped in last time and asked everyone to behave....
> 
> 
> DB BB



That was a broad statement I made, you are correct.  I should have said "many" or "most."  I apologize.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> It not like you got beat by a chimp.



Who says?


----------



## Lead Poison (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> in red.



Good summary gt; I agree.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Feb 18, 2009)

Dominic said:


> Lighten up
> 
> It not like you got beat by a chimp.


 

Gee.. This could also be said about some other people on here....

DB BB


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> in red.



1. I agree that's why I have a problem with it being a major tenant in teaching these days. I also believe the way it is taught in pre-trib circles borders on heresy. Most of that is pure conjecture.

2. Maybe I should clarify disengaged- By that I mean finding no good in earthly things. Boycotting rather than being engaged with solutions. In all of that I never heard the SBC say can we sit down and discuss.

3. But that is the point. When you preach an eschatology that imagines the short coming end of the world you get churches that look like fortresses. No art and architecture.

Sore- I've seen you pretty sore about some things to. It doesn't mean I am not a Christian nor you.


----------



## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> 1. I agree that's why I have a problem with it being a major tenant in teaching these days. I also believe the way it is taught in pre-trib circles borders on heresy. Most of that is pure conjecture.
> 
> 2. Maybe I should clarify disengaged- By that I mean finding no good in earthly things. Boycotting rather than being engaged with solutions. In all of that I never heard the SBC say can we sit down and discuss.
> 
> ...



1 Glad to find people who do not pour their energy into something that bears little, if any fruit.

2 Don't know that this was not attempted with Disney officials. Might be worth researching. What they did was non-confrontational and I can only speculate that the outcome of the boycott was that it drew attention to the fact that God and His people are not to be tolerant of sin,..... far more public than what a private meeting with Disney officials might have been.

3 Sorry, brother. I don't see fortresses. Did notice you ducked on Liberty and BJU.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> 1 Glad to find people who do not pour their energy into something that bears little, if any fruit.
> 
> 2 Don't know that this was not attempted with Disney officials. Might be worth researching. What they did was non-confrontational and I can only speculate that the outcome of the boycott was that it drew attention to the fact that God and His people are not to be tolerant of sin,..... far more public than what a private meeting with Disney officials might have been.
> 
> 3 Sorry, brother. I don't see fortresses. Did notice you ducked on Liberty and BJU.



Not intentionally just overlooked it. Bob Jones and Liberty are baptist colleges. Maybe I fail to see the difference. Founded by Baptist pastors.

2.  Non-confrontational??? Now really you can't mean that? Press conferences and all of that???

3. Look at Church architecture. Start watching it and I bet you can learn to name the denomination by the way it is built.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

And I believe Thomas Road Baptist which is affiliated with LU is an SBC congregation but I can't find anything on their website about it. But I only perused it not dug into it.

I will hand it to BJU they did actually include 1 pres church in their list of local churches. Funny though I know there are several more and even Episcopal, Anglican, and Catholic, and AME in Greenville. I spend a good bit of time there.


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## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Not intentionally just overlooked it. Bob Jones and Liberty are baptist colleges. Maybe I fail to see the difference. Founded by Baptist pastors.
> 
> 2.  Non-confrontational??? Now really you can't mean that? Press conferences and all of that???
> 
> 3. Look at Church architecture. Start watching it and I bet you can learn to name the denomination by the way it is built.



Private... not under ANY denominational control. Founded by Christian men on Christian principles, for many of the same reasons given for homeschooling on this forum.

Yep. No face-to-face and to my knowledge, no authorization to become confrontational from any of the mainstream Baptist Conventions, though I believe I remember some religious opposition attempts of a physical nature from one or more small groups of "radicals" not associated with any mainstream Christian organization.

Where have you been? A practiced eye has been able to spot the differences by denomination with fair accuracy for 50+ years. Nothing new there. And, as far as I can tell, nothing wrong with it, either.

Peace.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> Private... not under ANY denominational control. Founded by Christian men on Christian principles, for many of the same reasons given for homeschooling on this forum.
> 
> Yep. No face-to-face and to my knowledge, no authorization to become confrontational from any of the mainstream Baptist Conventions, though I believe I remember some religious opposition attempts of a physical nature from one or more small groups of "radicals" not associated with any mainstream Christian organization.
> 
> ...



Denominations as I have been saying are necessary. I was responding to the notion that they have it all right. That they are the sole reason for religious liberty and the holders of true Christians.

I think on BJU and LU we are walking a fine line. A SBC minister starts it... A SBC church funded it... Kind of hard to separate the two IMPO.


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## gtparts (Feb 18, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> And I believe Thomas Road Baptist which is affiliated with LU is an SBC congregation but I can't find anything on their website about it. But I only perused it not dug into it.
> 
> I will hand it to BJU they did actually include 1 pres church in their list of local churches. Funny though I know there are several more and even Episcopal, Anglican, and Catholic, and AME in Greenville. I spend a good bit of time there.



On point one, you are correct. Heard Jonathan Falwell at the Georgia Baptist Convention Annual Meeting in Jonesboro a number of weeks back. I was more impressed by him than his dad.

As for BJU, about the only thing I know is that it survived the Depression and is a Christ-centered, fundamentalist school. If memory serves, BJ founded the school because he encountered the same faith-destroying liberalism at colleges and universities that we see today and decided to provide a Christ-based alternative.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

gtparts said:


> On point one, you are correct. Heard Jonathan Falwell at the Georgia Baptist Convention Annual Meeting in Jonesboro a number of weeks back. I was more impressed by him than his dad.
> 
> As for BJU, about the only thing I know is that it survived the Depression and is a Christ-centered, fundamentalist school. If memory serves, BJ founded the school because he encountered the same faith-destroying liberalism at colleges and universities that we see today and decided to provide a Christ-based alternative.



Oh I understand the purpose of BJU. I just think some of their issues in the past have sprung from their biblical views.

Never have heard Jonathan speak live but I did Jerry on several occasions. Great guy. But I can't go with what he preached a lot of the time.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Ok I give up....you win....sounds like you're circling for the kill, I'd really better run now.
> 
> Sounds like? reading my mind? skewing my words?
> 
> I'd die for my belief in Christ....that should clear that up.



No not at all. Just questioning where you are coming from.


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## jason4445 (Feb 18, 2009)

You know mtnwoman and I, except for the fact that Jesus walked the face of the earth and a few other things, are probably on opposite sides of any Christian/religious discussions, but she is a excellent example of what I said about women being the ones that hold the Baptist and really any other church together.  Women are the weft and warp of the fabric of Christianity and the churches which follow it.

I specifically refer to her post #94 and where she says, "LOVE is a commandment of Jesus" and "mostly Jesus wouldn't like us feuding with each other."

While men tend to perch on the soapbox of "I am right and everyone else that does not believe as I do is wrong" and that is why Christianity has weakened its hold on the general population and there are a zillion Christian Chruches instead of five or six.

Women tend to take a wider and more accepting view point in matters of the soul.  They can hold solid to their beliefs, but accept others and their beliefs.  Women may disagree with other people's belief, but mostly won't condemn and reject others simply cause they think differently cause that's just the way it is.

This accepting nature of women in general can be seen in John Steinbeck book, Grapes of Wrath, when at the end the mother of the family says the following:

The father says, "You're the one that keeps us goin', Ma. I ain't no good no more, and I know it. Seems like I spend all my time these days thinkin' how it used to be. Thinkin' of home. I ain't never gonna see it no more."

Mother says, "Well, Pa. A woman can change and accept better'n a man. A man lives, sorta, well, in jerks. Baby's born and somebody dies, and that's a jerk. He gets a farm or loses it, and that's a jerk. With a woman, it's all in one flow like a stream. Little eddies and waterfalls, but the river it goes right on. A woman looks at it that way."

Even though Mtnwoman probably believes differently - if I was in a church I much rather have her preaching and ministering to me with the message of love and tolerance, than many of the men in here who, while Jesus's love comes out of one side of their mouths, condemnation and vengeance pours out of the other.

Fortunately the liberal and moderate Christian churches have grown and developed enough to see how the Corinthians verses have been falsely interpretative and let women become ministers, it is my hope that the fundamental churches can grow enough over the years to let women like mtnwoman become ministers as well if they so desire.


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## PWalls (Feb 18, 2009)

Wow, what a colossol waste of my time to read this entire thread. Thanks guys. It might have some small gems of information within it, but having to wade through the mud to get to it really isn't worth it.

Is everyone's fuse so short on here that every single thread gets into a griping match within the first page?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 18, 2009)

jason4445 said:


> You know mtnwoman and I, except for the fact that Jesus walked the face of the earth and a few other things, are probably on opposite sides of any Christian/religious discussions, but she is a excellent example of what I said about women being the ones that hold the Baptist and really any other church together.  Women are the weft and warp of the fabric of Christianity and the churches which follow it.
> 
> I specifically refer to her post #94 and where she says, "LOVE is a commandment of Jesus" and "mostly Jesus wouldn't like us feuding with each other."
> 
> ...



Thanks!
This post had me bawling, repenting, and asking for guidance and wisdom all at the same time.

Bless your sweet heart!


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## Ronnie T (Feb 18, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Thanks!
> This post had me bawling, repenting, and asking for guidance and wisdom all at the same time.
> 
> Bless your sweet heart!




Well, I don't know if 1Corinthians needs to be rewritten but I agree with his comments.
Over and over again I've seen that it's the women that seem to have become the backbone of the Lord's church.
The wives who are there without their husbands.
Mothers who are there with all 5 kids while the husband is sitting in a tree stand someplace(sorry guys).
Yep, you ladies know what "conviction" means.


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## jason4445 (Feb 19, 2009)

mtnwoman - I appreciate your generous words - kindness is a rare commodity these days.  

Corinthians does not need rewriting - just understood correctly.

PWalls - I think this group of postings (thread) has been one of the most poignant in a long time.  If you comprehend the theme it sort of follows Jesus's life. It starts out rather obscurely, travels through  a whole range of emotion including hate and accusation, but ends up in understanding and love.  Many think the Lord works in mysterious ways, and sometimes only through immaturity and conflict can we grow to develop tolerance and understanding.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 19, 2009)

I know for one that I don't understand totally and correctly a lot of things in the Bible. And that's why I love Bible study.

I don't have a husband, so Jesus is my headship.

I do believe the women in the NT that preached and taught were under the headship of Paul etc, who were under the headship of their priest Jesus Christ.

I think people who think women should not minister or teach men are missing an aweful lot of information on how to use your manhood to be gentle, kind,tenderhearted, etc to their wives and children and even other women. 

I would not be a minister or headship of a church but I believe that women can and should teach under the headship of their pastor, even to boys and men.
Obviously there are a lot of men out there who have never been taught how to treat women, girls, their daughters, etc etc....and that's pretty obvious.  And if you have a pastor who thinks women shouldn't teach or minister to men,  you're just gonna have another generation of men talking down to, acting superior to, and bullying their wives and other females.

There's a part the specifically gets left out of a lot of teachings.
Women are to be submissive and then it stops there.
What is says is that women are to be submissive to their husbands, but men are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and willing to give their lives for their wives. Funny how the first part only gets taught by so so many men teachers.  How much difference would that make if men followed that complete teaching in the marriage, rather than acting like they are King David or something...which happens to be what I call my son in law.
His name is David, I'm not referring to David in the bible.

And if you ain't in church and you are in a tree stand do not condemn the women left behind to hold down the fort...


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## mtnwoman (Feb 19, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Well, I don't know if 1Corinthians needs to be rewritten but I agree with his comments.
> Over and over again I've seen that it's the women that seem to have become the backbone of the Lord's church.
> The wives who are there without their husbands.
> Mothers who are there with all 5 kids while the husband is sitting in a tree stand someplace(sorry guys).
> Yep, you ladies know what "conviction" means.



Yeah I agree.


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## gemcgrew (Feb 19, 2009)

PWalls said:


> Wow, what a colossol waste of my time to read this entire thread. Thanks guys. It might have some small gems of information within it, but having to wade through the mud to get to it really isn't worth it.
> 
> Is everyone's fuse so short on here that every single thread gets into a griping match within the first page?



It is kind of like crawling through a mile of sewage for one good biscuit isn't it?

Meanwhile, God by his infinite mercy and grace is plucking his children from perverted religions.


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## Israel (Feb 19, 2009)

Love builds up.
Knowledge puffs up.
The big difference between them is knowledge can be gained reading in a comfortable study, surrounded by a multitude of books that delight and inflate the psyche.
Love is learned, not by study, but by following.
Not by information, but by conformation.
It is what has always angered pharisees despite their great attention to religious detail, the simplicity of knowing Christ and the power of his life in even the most unlearned of disciples.
There is none of the Lord's death in a man showing what he knows.
But showing who he knows is a different matter.
God is not stupid.


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## jason4445 (Feb 19, 2009)

"Love builds up.
Knowledge puffs up.
The big difference between them is knowledge can be gained reading in a comfortable study, surrounded by a multitude of books that delight and inflate the psyche.
Love is learned, not by study, but by following.
Not by information, but by conformation."

Israel - are you referring to Humans or a herd of milk cows.


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## Israel (Feb 19, 2009)

jason4445 said:


> "Love builds up.
> Knowledge puffs up.
> The big difference between them is knowledge can be gained reading in a comfortable study, surrounded by a multitude of books that delight and inflate the psyche.
> Love is learned, not by study, but by following.
> ...




neither


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## crackerdave (Feb 19, 2009)

Lead Poison said:


> I've always considered (and publicly recognized) those who are members of the Roman Catholic church as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
> 
> Do I have issues with the Roman Catholic church, yes. And they have issues with my Southern Baptist faith.  However, I've always believed it was wrong to cause those differences to be huge stumbling blocks or reasons to launch personal attacks.
> 
> ...



AMEN and AMEN some mo'!  

If anybody wants to pick nits [nitpickers] go find yourself a chimp and pick the nits offa HIM! I hope you git bit.


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## Big7 (Feb 20, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Guess I am going to have to go join Free Willie, Dawg2, Big7, and Dominic for communion...



Good - That will get you on the RIGHT track.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 20, 2009)

The more I study and read the more I pray and think about it the more value I see in a United church. Especially moving forward in today's culture.


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## fivesolas (Feb 20, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> The more I study and read the more I pray and think about it the more value I see in a United church. Especially moving forward in today's culture.



We will stand outside that camp.


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## dawg2 (Feb 20, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> We will stand outside that camp.



That is what they did to Jesus too


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## celticfisherman (Feb 20, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> That is what they did to Jesus too





Oh boy...


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## boxofrox (Feb 23, 2009)

May I add my two cents?

I attended a Presbyterian church when I was younger with my best friend.  I also went to the Catholic church a couple of times, but got freaked out when the guy tried to put a cracker in my mouth (I was young and no one explained that I wasn't supposed to take communion if I wasn't part of the church!!)  

Anyways, long story short, I quit going to church when I turned 16.  I felt like there was a lot of hypocrisy, and people constantly talking about folks behind their back.  I then began down a long road of not knowing WHAT I believed in.  I knew there was a god, but was it the Christian God? The Wiccan god(s)?  The Flying Spagetti Monster?  I had no idea.

Fast forward til I'm about 20 years old.  I met my now husband, who is a Southern Baptist preacher's son.  He was out doing like preacher's sons do, drinking, partying and rockin and rollin.  So was I, so we started dating.  To appease his dad, we played church every now and then.  

But anyways around January of last year things got really bad between us, and we were headed for divorce.  God got a hold of me and made me make a decision.  I had to get off the fence.  For too long I had played around in areas that I shouldn't have.  Thank God, I decided to start living for Him, and so did my husband, and now we are stronger than ever.

Okay, I rambled.  But I said all that to say this:

When I first went to that Baptist church I was scared outta my boots.  All that I had heard about Southern Baptist, and here was this little Florida transplant about to go sit in on a hellfire and brimstone sermon.  

MAN WAS I WRONG!

That church of maybe 50 people was the most loving, encouraging and supportive group of people I have ever met!  While they hold true to their beliefs, they don't condemn people.  Whenever they feel that someone is out of line, they approach them in love and pray for them.  I have never heard anyone raise their voice at each other in this church.  

God really got a hold of me in this last year or two, and He puts a lot of things on my heart.  Whenever He makes me feel as though it is something that the church needs to hear, my preacher (also FIL) allows me to get up and say it.  As does anyone else.  

While we don't have a woman preacher, we do have women teachers in our church.  Everyone seems to understand that God works through EVERYONE, not just the men.  And we are definitely not kept silent!

Celtic, I think you mentioned dancing earlier.  My husband and I took our youth group to a youth rally not to long ago, and they had a band playing, drums and all, at the church (a Baptist church).  Kids, adults and even preachers were dancing and having a good old time!  We host vacation Bible school every year and some of the older folks get into the song and dance section more than the kids do!

I have no doubt that there are some old stuffy churches out there that probably say "you can't do this, you can't do that" but from what I have experienced around here, the Southern Baptists are beginning to reach out "by any means necessary".  We've started hosting movie night at our church, showing secular movies (G rated of course!) and inviting the community to come in and watch, just so they have something free to do with their kids in these bad economic times.  Sure, some preachers would probably say "oh you can't show secular movies at church!" why not?  

Celtic, if you ever want to check us out, PM me if you're in the south GA area.  I think you'd be presently surprised to find out that not all Baptists "need to be run out" :-D

One other note: While I am SB (by marriage! haha) I do wish that we could all just come together and agree on the fundamentals, and leave the rest alone.  I heard it best put like this: Jesus + anything = bad.  Meaning, if you say that someone has to accept Christ and go to church twice a week to be saved, that's wrong.  If you say someone has to accept Christ and be baptized to be saved, you're wrong.  If you say that someone has to accept Christ and not have piercings and green hair, you're wrong.  Salvation is through Christ alone.  God doesn't need any help saving anyone.  Everything else that we do is just to show outwardly that we are saved Christians!


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## fivesolas (Feb 23, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> That is what they did to Jesus too



Actually, to properly apply that example is that Jesus went outside the camp. We will go outside the camp with Him.


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## dawg2 (Feb 23, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Actually, to properly apply that example is that Jesus went outside the camp. We will go outside the camp with Him.


He is the camp.


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## fivesolas (Feb 23, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> He is the camp.



Ok, I am trying to clarify what I meant. 

Hebrews 13
9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 

 10We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 

 11For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 

 12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 

 13Let us go forth therefore *unto him without the camp*, bearing his reproach. 

 14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. 

We go out to him, outside the camp. I eat and share in a communion different from what was discussed and to which I replied in this thread. We eat from an altar they have no right to eat from, unless they repent.


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## DROPPINEM (Feb 24, 2009)

I love fried chicken and muddy water!


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## Israel (Feb 24, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Ok, I am trying to clarify what I meant.
> 
> Hebrews 13
> 9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
> ...



Yes. 
There is the Lord's gathering.
There is the gathering of the religious.
There is a live body.
There is a body of carrion.
The one always sets itself up as "this is where you find God"
The other is only visible in the spirit and never promotes itself.

Jesus was crucified outside the camp, outside the religious city.


----------



## mtnwoman (Feb 28, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I think solas you need to get off the high horse on this issue. You are worse than the Catholics on this one. Baptists have not been good for this part of the country. The Baptist church gov't allows too much room for individual ideas to be taught and ran with. It does not promote the general education of its ministers or leaders. It does not promote a proper understanding of Communion, Baptism, or the idea of Grace. The Baptist theology that has now taken hold with people like Jenkins and LaHaye is more damaging to Christianity today than anything Dan Brown could ever write.
> 
> Don't drink, don't dance, don't go with girls who do... And boycott everything you don't agree with. Withdraw from the world don't affect change in it thru the people. This is an aftereffect of the pre-millennial dispensationalism and the hide from the world mentality prevalent in the denomination.
> 
> Of course since the denomination  was not run out we have had to deal with the rule making and legalistic interpretation of everything. The list of can'ts is longer than the list of let's. There are more rules involved than Love. There are more rules because the understanding of God's Grace and Covenant is not there.



This seems pretty judgemental to me.
Course I'm sure you wouldn't think so.

God's Grace and convenant is there for a lot of baptists...you couldn't possibly know them all...now could you.
Lump them all together why won'tcha....course now you wouldn't do that...but you sure can call me on it if you think I am.

And running them off... that isn't very nice either. You judged me before you really knew me.

ALL baptists aren't the same...same point I was trying to make to you that all Catholics aren't...course you didn't get it.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 28, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Why didn't Baptists push to get "God" put in our Pledge of allegiance like Catholics did?
> 
> Many religions have had a hand in religious freedom.



Are you kidding me?

Please provide me information that proves Baptists didn't and while you're at it please give me the information where the Catholics did, not personal knowledge now, because I can provide personal knowledge that the Baptists did.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 28, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Where have I set my standards? How do you know what they are? How do you know? This is the problem when you get into this subject. There's a lot of this but no answers.



How do you know everyone's standards? You seem to think you know...I don't know yours but you know mine because I'm a baptist.....ok    Seems fair and just to me.
If you are talking about baptists then you are talking about me personally...yet you say you aren't.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 28, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> How do you know everyone's standards? You seem to think you know...I don't know yours but you know mine because I'm a baptist.....ok    Seems fair and just to me.
> If you are talking about baptists then you are talking about me personally...yet you say you aren't.



I have come to believe you are so wrapped up in being baptist you cannot separate the your Christian faith and the Baptist denomination. I do know your denominations standards for worship, gov't, and pastors. That is what I have said I have a problem with. Did I ever say Mtnwoman I have a problem with YOU! Because XYZ did this? No. 

But the extra-emotional junk is just over the top. 

My standards are of no consequence. The standards set by God are what we should be concerned with. Nor the standards set by your denomination.


----------



## fivesolas (Feb 28, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Please provide me information that proves Baptists didn't and while you're at it please give me the information where the Catholics did, not personal knowledge now, because I can provide personal knowledge that the Baptists did.



You are correct mtnwoman. 



> IN GOD WE TRUST
> 
> On Dec. 8, 1863, Mint Director James Pollock wrote to Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase recommending the issuance of a two-cent piece in French bronze, the same alloy chosen for the slimmer Indian cent. Pollock submitted two proposed designs, both by Chief Engraver James B. Longacre, who also had designed the Indian cent. One bore the head of George Washington; the other depicted a shield and arrows. Pollock and Chase both favored the latter.
> 
> ...



Source: http://www.reformedreader.org/inGODwetrust.htm


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## Ronnie T (Feb 28, 2009)

With all of my heart, I believe sadly, there will be no Baptists  in heaven.  Enjoy it here.


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## fivesolas (Feb 28, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> With all of my heart, I believe sadly, there will be no Baptists  in heaven.  Enjoy it here.



With all of my heart, I beleive strongly, you cannot substantiate your calumny.


----------



## Israel (Feb 28, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> With all of my heart, I beleive strongly, you cannot substantiate your calumny.



Being "baptist" is of the earth...earthy, of the first man.
It is his predilection to identify himself according to a group or a set of beliefs.
The second man identifies only with the man from heaven, and although there may be some who even now claim their baptist heritage it will be burned away in the ascent.
Nothing of the old man enters there.


----------



## fivesolas (Feb 28, 2009)

Israel said:


> Being "baptist" is of the earth...earthy, of the first man.
> It is his predilection to identify himself according to a group or a set of beliefs.
> The second man identifies only with the man from heaven, and although there may be some who even now claim their baptist heritage it will be burned away in the ascent.
> Nothing of the old man enters there.



That is...ridiculous. I am certain you will enjoy heaven with many who were baptists, presbyterians, et. 

Be careful that while you seek to exclude others from your heaven you find yourself on the outside.


----------



## celticfisherman (Feb 28, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> That is...ridiculous. I am certain you will enjoy heaven with many who were baptists, presbyterians, et.
> 
> Be careful that while you seek to exclude others from your heaven you find yourself on the outside.



While I can only say this is not my understanding of what he said... What you just said is no where close. He IMO means there are no denominations in heaven.


----------



## fivesolas (Feb 28, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> While I can only say this is not my understanding of what he said... What you just said is no where close. He IMO means there are no denominations in heaven.



I hope your right. I read like he believes there will be no Baptists in heaven, and, being a Baptist, unless I repent of being a Baptist, I am lost and will die and go to he11. 

I hope that is not what he meant.


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## SBG (Feb 28, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> With all of my heart, I believe sadly, there will be no Baptists  in heaven.  Enjoy it here.



You may need to check your wood.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 28, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I hope your right. I read like he believes there will be no Baptists in heaven, and, being a Baptist, unless I repent of being a Baptist, I am lost and will die and go to he11.
> 
> I hope that is not what he meant.



I am fairly certain that is not it. But will not put words in his mouth. But just having read Ronnie for a while I doubt that is it. Same goes for Israel. BUt sometimes I need a copy of the Israel dictionary to follow him.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks to you brothers for knowing me.  Don't we all get overly carried away with identifying which church we joined?  However we call it now, one day we'll all become just plain ol simple Christians.  We'll leave these church names behind.
I expect fivesolas will be there to.
By the way finesolas, I love your new signature line.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 28, 2009)

Dominic said:


> You might note that Dawg was talking about the Pledge of allegiance and not coinage. Just a clarification.



Huh I thought the coinage was done by the Masons and the new world order???


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## AM1 (Feb 28, 2009)

My pastor once said " I don't have a thing against other denominations. If you believe that Christ was the son of God, born of a virgin, died & rose again & is the only way to God, then we can get along. I even have lots of family who are Methodist, led to alot of quarrels. I'm too old for that now. Now, does that mean that we Baptists are right on everything? Probably not, its debatable......but I think we are  closer to being right than anybody else."  That's funny right there, I don't care who you are, that's funny!


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## mtnwoman (Mar 2, 2009)

AM1 said:


> My pastor once said " I don't have a thing against other denominations. If you believe that Christ was the son of God, born of a virgin, died & rose again & is the only way to God, then we can get along. I even have lots of family who are Methodist, led to alot of quarrels. I'm too old for that now. Now, does that mean that we Baptists are right on everything? Probably not, its debatable......but I think we are  closer to being right than anybody else."  That's funny right there, I don't care who you are, that's funny!



Right on!

I've said here many times that if you believe who Jesus says He is and He died and rose again, then we're all good.
Some nitpickers might not like how I sip my grapejuice and would rather give real wine to a saved 14 yr old...which would be illegal..then so be it.
I think that if that 14 yr old knows why he/she is drinking what they are drinking then they are good.

Like I've also said if some 80 yr old grandmaw wants me to take her to mass, I will...if she wants to go to a Methodist church, or just wherever, then I believe my job is to get her there. And whether I believe exactly how they sip their juice, or when or how many times a week month or year...my Saviour tells me to treat others as I'd like to be treated and find no condemnation in them.
I hope a Catholic lady, or a Methodist man or a presbyterian teenager will take this old lady (me) to whatever church I want to go to when I'm 80, simply out of compassion that they get from their Lord.

And if that's how a Baptists thinks about others...then I'm dangtootin' proud to be a Baptist.


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