# a lil different question for trad bowyers



## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

I have always (about 22 yrs worth) and still do suffer from pretty extreme target panic while shooting my compounds.

Do you think switching to a recurve and shooting instinctively would help with this?  Anyone have real life experience with trying?

I really don't have interest in the traditional side, other than being lil intrigued with recurves.


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## Rare Breed (Feb 28, 2013)

Yes, I think you should get a trad bow and come join us because it's good old fashion fun. I don't think shooting a trad bow will make you a better compound or rifle shooter as you don't typically shot them instinctive. The best advice I have every recieved in regarts to shooting was to take a moment to enjoy knowing your arrow is going to hit its mark before you release the string. I think it applys to all bows and rifles.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

Rare Breed said:


> Yes, I think you should get a trad bow and come join us because it's good old fashion fun. I don't think shooting a trad bow will make you a better compound or rifle shooter as you don't typically shot them instinctive. The best advice I have every recieved in regarts to shooting was to take a moment to enjoy knowing your arrow is going to hit its mark before you release the string. I think it applys to all bows and rifles.



thx Rare...but most that know me will tell ya that I aint much for social gatherings (right Al33????).

all kidding aside I wouldnt think it would help me shoot the compound any better and havent shot a rifle in a buncha years but was really wondering if anyone thought it would help me get over target panic while actually shooting the recurve itself.

my thoughts are that since I cant seem to get the pin of this danged compound sight on target without releasing before or without swinging thru and releasing that maybe shooting with the fast draw and release of a recurve would help???


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## Jake Allen (Feb 28, 2013)

Jim, we really don't use the dreaded tp word much here.

What helps me though, is to concentrate on form, then the flight of the arrow, and not be concerned as much with the arrow hitting the target.


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## Todd Cook (Feb 28, 2013)

Yes I do . I had the same exact problem. I would freeze off target with the pin(usually a few inches high). This was around 1994 or 95. I saw a Jefferys recurve in a bow shop and out of curiosity tried it.
    I noticed right away that I didn't have any problems with freezing. Of course I couln't hit very accurately, but at least I could focus on the spot and try.
   Shooting a bow became fun again. I didn't have anyone to help me at that time, but eventually became a decent shot.
   I wish I could tell you the TP would go away, but for me it never did. I tried to shoot both bows for a while, but several years ago went trad only.
   Having said that, I wouldn't go back to a compound for any reason I can think of. It's so much more enjoyable to shoot a doe or a little pig with my longbow than any of the bucks I ever killed with a compound. And the people in this sport are some of the finest you'll ever meet. Give it a try!


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## Al33 (Feb 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if it would help you or not Jim. Heck, I'm not sure what target panic is exactly.  I do know that I have struggled with "peaking" as I loose an arrow at a critter and sometimes even targets. I want to see where the arrow is going so bad that I am raising my head and lowering my bow arm at the same time I am releasing the string. I guess you could call this dilemma target panic. I found that blind bale shooting helps me more than anything else to overcome this.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

Thx Todd and all.

Al, my version of target panic is as I swing into the shot my pin stops a half inch or so low and no matter what I do I cant get the pin up that last lil bit.  literally feels like someone is standing on the end of my arrow.

lots of exercises help correct this and all work from time to time, but none have ever cured me of it.


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## Barry Duggan (Feb 28, 2013)

Sounds like you shoulda adjusted your sight so your arrow impacted slightly above where you were aiming.
We don't use sights/pins, so that might be a step in the right direction for you. lol


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

Barry Duggan said:


> Sounds like you shoulda adjusted your sight so your arrow impacted slightly above where you were aiming.
> We don't use sights/pins, so that might be a step in the right direction for you. lol



HA...thx barry...I'll go ahead and move the sights 

so ifn a fella were to pick up an 45lb 62" samick sage what arrows would yall recommend to get me started?

shoot straight off the shelf?


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## RogerB (Feb 28, 2013)

No, just shooting a trad bow will not help. There are specific exercises (mostly mental) that will though.


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## SELFBOW (Feb 28, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> HA...thx barry...I'll go ahead and move the sights
> 
> so ifn a fella were to pick up an 45lb 62" samick sage what arrows would yall recommend to get me started?
> 
> shoot straight off the shelf?



Straight off the shelf for sure.... I'd try GT1535s full length to start with 250grains on the front or you could go wood and get some cedar arrows. Whats your draw length?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> HA...thx barry...I'll go ahead and move the sights
> 
> so ifn a fella were to pick up an 45lb 62" samick sage what arrows would yall recommend to get me started?
> 
> shoot straight off the shelf?


Gotta put feathers on it. Those plastic fletchings make an arrow do goofy things out of a trad bow.


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## T.P. (Feb 28, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> I have always (about 22 yrs worth) and still do suffer from pretty extreme target panic while shooting my compounds.
> 
> Do you think switching to a recurve and shooting instinctively would help with this?  Anyone have real life experience with trying?
> 
> I really don't have interest in the traditional side, other than being lil intrigued with recurves.



Uhh...... I had target panic as bad as one could have with a compound. At full draw the pin would be 3 feet under the target, I couldn't pick it up, felt like the bow weighed 100lbs.

Switched from righty to lefty and voila', I was cured.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

RogerB said:


> No, just shooting a trad bow will not help. There are specific exercises (mostly mental) that will though.



been doing the exercises for a long long time.  tried many and all work for a while and then...poof I slip back again.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

oh and my draw length is 28-29 give or take a 1/4"


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## j_seph (Feb 28, 2013)

Sounds like buck fever to me Jim


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

j_seph said:


> Sounds like buck fever to me Jim



 I wish that was the only time it happend J!!!!


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## Cavalry Scout (Feb 28, 2013)

I think I used to do somthing like that with my compound.  I switched to a trophy ridge sight that had verticle pins. It let me see my target better as I bring mine in from the side.  When I was a Drill Sgt, I had some soldiers that would benefit from more of a target focus than a sight focus. It was hard to get them to "look past the sight" but, the shooting instructors said this would cause them to naturally bring the front sight to "center mass". From the looks of it, you dont have a lot of issues with connecting!


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

Cavalry Scout said:


> I think I used to do somthing like that with my compound.  I switched to a trophy ridge sight that had verticle pins. It let me see my target better as I bring mine in from the side.  When I was a Drill Sgt, I had some soldiers that would benefit from more of a target focus than a sight focus. It was hard to get them to "look past the sight" but, the shooting instructors said this would cause them to naturally bring the front sight to "center mass". From the looks of it, you dont have a lot of issues with connecting!



a vertical pin helped me a good bit.

yeah I slip up on one now and again and the one in my avatar was at a grand total of 12 yards


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## Red Arrow (Feb 28, 2013)

Don't know if it would help your target panic, but it sure is alot more fun!!  I switched from a compound to a recurve in 1989 and have not looked back...  You just got to realize hunting traditional is a closer game than with the compounds...


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## Mudfeather (Feb 28, 2013)

I'm gonna disagree with some on here....Not really that uncommon for me....BUT shooting a trad bow WILL INFACT help you shoot your wheels a ton better and quicker...

Think about this with an open mind.....Alot of what a compound is and its accessories is to mimimize your imput into the shot...It teaches you one major flaw....The let off make it much easier to relax on the shot and REDUCE your back tension....WHICH contributes to your TP.....

years ago after swallowing the trad pill and getting rid of my compound....I struggled with my killing...

I went a bought a compound again and shoot it better because I understand the PHYSICS of the shot and not the let off and trigger release and stabalizer...etc...

i think the main advantage of a trad bow is making you push pull thoughout the shot and it is SUPER OBVIOUS if you dont ...unlike your wheelie bow when it can be hidden real well...

JUST my .02


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## Recurve (Feb 28, 2013)

Just my 2 cents. I don't post on here very often but I can give a little advice. It is probably safe to say I have battled the worst cases of target panic and I can tell you if people haven't been through it its hard for them to understand what it really is all about. My best advice to you is take one of your compounds and drop the poundage down to 40 or 45 pounds (if possible) and go out and practice drawing and aiming at the target but keep your finger off the trigger of your release. Do this for a couple days and then start getting use to putting your finger on the trigger without touching off the shot(i think you can see where i am going with this ,Baby steps)I am thinking when you are up in a tree stand deer hunting you can probably draw your bow and settle your pin on anything like a leaf , twig whatever and you don't have a problem settling your pin because in your mind you know your not going to shoot.  Takes time but you can work yourself through it. Being that I shoot stick bows I made a bow out of 1/2" or 3/4" PVC pipe ( about 62" long) duct taped piece of wood on it for arrow shelf and would in my garage every night nock an arrow and just draw and hold over and over after a while I got to where I could take my recurve and longbow and do the same thing. Main thing I guess is to be patient, I personally don't think switching to different archery gear will fix your problem but hey you never know you might figure out how much fun trad gear is. If your wondering I have killed several deer,couple hogs and last year took a double bearded gobbler on public land in Georgia last year at 14 yards with a longbow so yes you can work through it. Sorry for the long post but I think a lot of people have tp issues and just don't realize it or don't think they can do anything about it and they give up. Good luck


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## Cavalry Scout (Feb 28, 2013)

Not to hog in on Jim's post but, could someone give a good example of "TP"? With all my issues its hard to know if I have it?? Maybe could help others also.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2013)

Thx recurve, that's the basic technique that I've used for years when it his me.  Post more often brother...good advice.

Calvary...my issue is as I'm getting my pin settled I'm it will never get on target. It feels as if someone is standing on the end of my arrow holding my pin just below my aiming spot. Nothing i can do to bring it up higher which causes me to either jerk the trigger or to swing towards the spot and release.


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## Recurve (Feb 28, 2013)

The most common for stick bow shooters is not being able to hold draw which means you release well before you reach full draw. People who try to switch over from shooting there 60 plus pound compound to trying to shoot a 60 plus pound stick bow can easily develop this. Some people have problem picking a spot and they end up shooting at the whole animal or target. Compound shooters try to line up there pin and they freeze below or above the bullseye or spot on the animal and try to drop(or jerk) the pin or raise the pin into bullseye while releasing which this can happen with a firearm as well.


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## Gadestroyer74 (Feb 28, 2013)

Sounds to me like you need to do more shooting at animals and less dragging.. Start shooting small game and all sizes of legal game animals.. Getting back to basics never hurt a thing get the ole pellet rifle out.. If you ever become a perfect hunter or shot the thrill may be over ... Good competitions never hurt neither its really all in the mind .. No matter what the weapon is... It doesn't matter what I shoot its gonna happen at some form or another


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## 2wheelfoster (Mar 1, 2013)

buckbacks said:


> Straight off the shelf for sure.... I'd try GT1535s full length to start with 250grains on the front or you could go wood and get some cedar arrows. Whats your draw length?



You can also try the 3555's at full length with 175 gr. field tips on them. I have been able to shoot that set up out of several different bows from 45lbs to 53 lbs. I also use the 5" feathers on them. Good Luck!


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 1, 2013)

thx for all the help folks.  I may give the recurve route a try to see how I like or dont like it.  worst case is I keep the compound in a tree with me and yeah thats not so bad


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## Fishin & Hunting (Mar 1, 2013)

My TP only comes when I shoot a release.  When I would shoot my 1979 25% letoff PSE with fingers, no TP.  Traditional no TP.

But I get a mild case of TP with a release.  My TP is more of a flinch when I go for the trigger.  I flinch foward.


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## Bucky T (Mar 1, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> I have always (about 22 yrs worth) and still do suffer from pretty extreme target panic while shooting my compounds.
> 
> Do you think switching to a recurve and shooting instinctively would help with this?  Anyone have real life experience with trying?
> 
> I really don't have interest in the traditional side, other than being lil intrigued with recurves.



Jim,

Personally for me....  I was more nervous shooting at a deer with a recurve for the first time than I was with a compound..  Think it was because it was something new for the first time in 20 odd years of bowhunting with a compound only.

Last season, I drew my recurve back on 1 deer and double lunged him at 15yds.  I felt fine and dandy.  That buck was my first trad bow kill.

I believe once I got my jitters out of the way from the previous season, I was good to go.

Now I feel very confident in the stand with it.

Now one of my friends who started trad hunting, has sold his compound, and he's already killed 3 deer with his recurve.  He's always had target panic and said that he feels completely comfortable with his recurve vs. his old compounds.

I still shoot both types of bows and enjoy hunting with both.

You ought to give trad archery a try.  It's very addicting.


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## WarrenWomack (Mar 1, 2013)

The entire time that I hunted with a compound bow (1975-1992) I battled with target panic. For me it was the fear of missing.  I would, like others have said, freeze up below the target, then release and jerk my hand up to compensate for being off target. 

I tried everything but the only thing that worked for me was to practice shooting my 30 yard pin at 10 yards. After a couple of shots my mind accepted the fact that it was going to be impossible to hit where I was aiming. It was only then, that I didn't experience pressure and was able to hold the sight pin on target without any problem, just like I could when aiming at something and knowing that I wasn't going to release the arrow. 

Shooting multiple days I gradually worked my way back to 30 yards and was able to hold on target and be able to shoot decent groups from any distance. If I experienced failure I would go back to 10 yards and go through the process again.

Best wishes.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 1, 2013)

all good advice, thanks again folks.


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## T.P. (Mar 1, 2013)

WarrenWomack said:


> The entire time that I hunted with a compound bow (1975-1992) I battled with target panic. For me it was the fear of missing.  I would, like others have said, freeze up below the target, then release and jerk my hand up to compensate for being off target.
> 
> I tried everything but the only thing that worked for me was to practice shooting my 30 yard pin at 10 yards. After a couple of shots my mind accepted the fact that it was going to be impossible to hit where I was aiming. It was only then, that I didn't experience pressure and was able to hold the sight pin on target without any problem, just like I could when aiming at something and knowing that I wasn't going to release the arrow.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I've never thought of trying not to hit the dot. That would take the fear of missing out of the equation altogether. I like it. Similar to the "blind bale", but not really.


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## trad bow (Mar 1, 2013)

Alot of people that shoot trad also have target panic.It is mental and you can get over it. Some people have a fear of missing which causes a hesitant release or a fear of letting go. This in turns causes a jerky type release which sends the arrow way off of its intended course. By standing in front of a form building target, which is a target that you can shoot straight into from five yards, lets you concentrate on your form instead of aiming at a spot. Most people get caught up into hitting a spot before learning muscle memory and correct form. This in turn leads some people so concerned with hitting the spot they could not do it and their groups start getting wider and the presure increases in their mind to make the perfect shot that it will be near impossible for them to even hit the target. Practice form and let you subconscience take over. Most people have to learn how to concentrate on a spot and trust their own abilities. I fight target panic and a session at the five yard bale helps bring everything back into where it needs to be. I then find that I shoot better by roving thru the woods stump shooting than standing in front of a 3d target that gets shot at over and over.


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## GA DAWG (Mar 1, 2013)

Jim I have pretty bad target panic. I'll tell ya what though. When I went gator hunting. I used a bow with no sights no nothing. I did use my release.. ol buddy filled a jug up and tossed it out. I pulled back and let er fly. Dead centered that jug over and over at different distances. I had no sight to worry about. All that went through my mind was. A buddy said if you think your aiming low enough. Pull it on down a few more inches. I did miss the gator first shot but double lunged him the second. Didn't even have to wrassle him. He was dead by the time we got to him lol. I think maybe I should just shoot no sights.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 1, 2013)

TP is tough for sure.  I have bouts of it off an on all year.  all good advice in here.  

still sweating a samick sage


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## robert carter (Mar 2, 2013)

I shot a compound a bit for a few years and a Buddy had the exact same problem you have of locking in low. sounds crazy but he would lean at his waist a bit and get on target. after a few sessions of actually hitting the target he got his confidence back and could shoot like normal. He said he recon he was afraid of missing.....
  I`ve seen people with target panic something fierce with a stickbow. Learning to shoot with proper form then getting confidence in knowing that if you hold your form at YOUR effective range you will hit what you are shooting at is the key to Trad shooting. When you shoot and try not to miss...it ain`t good. No focus on what might happen....focus on form and the spot you want to hit and let the shot surprise you. Sounds easy don`t it.RC


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## robert carter (Mar 2, 2013)

Forgot to add I have some form of target "blank out". When I shoot at a critter I usually will be looking where I want to hit and then its a blur. I never remember actually shooting.I usually remember drawing the bow but can`t remember the shot. I kinda like it because I often hit what I`m shooting at without thinking but I don`t like not "knowing" the shot. Only happens on animals. about the only thing I remember at the shot is the sound of the arrow hitting..crazy I know.RC


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## Dennis (Mar 2, 2013)

Archery is a funny thing we practice trying to hit the bullseye but we only need to practice executing the shot correctly and the bullseye will happen.


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## DaddyPaul (Mar 3, 2013)

I had horrible TP when I shot compounds.  I still suffer a little with my recurve in that I have to force myself at times to come to anchor or else I'll let it fly short of hitting my contact points.  Sorta the same thing in my mind.  The ONLY thing that helped me with TP and compounds was to shoot a true back tension release.  Get a good adjustable hinge release, learn to shoot it, set it really cold or slow and just hunt with it.  I killed several with a Carter Atension release before going trad.  Takes a few more seconds for shot to break but you will be able to float your pin on bullseye for the first time in a while.


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## Kool Hand Luke (Mar 3, 2013)

I had an olympic coach, was on hoyt national staff ,and used recurve for practicing back tension, made me better compoundshot for sure, my opinon it will help you focus on what you are shootin instead of driving by shooting. Something else you can try is pull back ,aim,let down about three times before every shot for a while, it will help ,aim hard dont focus on where your pin is,focus on what you want to hit the shot will happen ,stan has a. Release called element that will not shoot unless you pull through the shot. Tp is a mind thing, if you draw your bow and your pin wants to hangleft usaully your draw lenghth to long , but you can get over this ,mostly mind game good luck with it if can help let me know, pm me i can give you some more tips ,thats my cup of tea, trad is fun though but i like compounds i want to kill something big with recurve though.


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## rapid fire (Mar 4, 2013)

I had target pannic for years with a compound.  I don't seem to get it nearly as bad with the Recurve, but I do find that if I don't practice much, I start experiencing it worse.


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## Todd Cook (Mar 11, 2013)

Mr. Carter, I belive you're onto something there. I've had that blur you're talking about a few times myself( not near as many as you  )   Funny thing is, when that happens it seems I almost always hit what I'm aiming at. When I think about the shot and the release is when I get in trouble.


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## oldfella1962 (Mar 28, 2013)

*Shoot off the shelf!*

I was going to buy a Samick Sage takedown, ended up getting a Samick SLB II longbow. Both are great bows, I just like the silence of a longbow. Regardless, shoot cedar arrows off the shelf and you can't go wrong. 

As for "target panic" I'm 51 years old and they didn't know about that back then, so I can't help you. However, when I took my longbow to work, two "compound only" guys took to shooting a longbow (with a little coaching in shooting instinctive with no sights) like a duck to water! They were shooting pretty good patterns in a few minutes. 

Once I bag a deer with it this fall, I'll probably be giving them the website to order one. 

My point is, you can't have target panic if you're not aiming/using sights. Both eyes are open and focusing on the target - it's like throwing darts or a football. Your body will figure out where to point to hit the target after a while.

Longbows/recurves shooting off the shelf without a release (glove or tab only) really does feel much more natural. It's like a part of your body versus operating a machine (which is what a compound means to me).


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 28, 2013)

thx oldfella


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