# Banning MALE decoys would save more toms than any one of the survey options - Fact or Fiction?



## White0ak (Jan 19, 2021)

Yes, I know there's a parallel thread on the "dnr survey", I am just tired of seeing zero mention of banning MALE decoys.

If you are an advocate for slowing hunter success rate in order to save male turkeys, which is what every single option in that survey does, why not consider banning decoys that typically require little to no woodsmanship other than "getting him to see it"?

Thoughts?


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## Dupree (Jan 19, 2021)

Banning male decoys would save more “dominant” gobblers early season than any proposed regs, (except for delaying season all together). The ones who are against doing that rely on them to get a kill.


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## strothershwacker (Jan 19, 2021)

I don't know if decoys work or not. Ain't willin' to tote 'em round?. I like to use the ridges to my advantage. By the time I can see the gobbler it's too late..... he's in shotgun range?


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## strothershwacker (Jan 19, 2021)

I don't know if decoys work or not. Ain't willin' to tote 'em round?. I like to use the ridges to my advantage. By the time I can see the gobbler it's too late..... he's in shotgun range?


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 19, 2021)

I can tell you several board members were discussing just that to the point I was surprised not to see that as a proposal.  But once they talked to their handicapped friends it might have changed


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## Dupree (Jan 19, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> I can tell you several board members were discussing just that to the point I was surprised not to see that as a proposal.  But once they talked to their handicapped friends it might have changed


I brought it up at the public meeting I attended and have encouraged everyone I know to email the same thing, although I doubt it would happen.


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## jNick (Jan 19, 2021)

Preach! Never seen so many so called “turkey hunters”. Ban’m all.


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## White0ak (Jan 19, 2021)

That is awesome to hear - My lurking assumption has always been that the big box decoy brands + the certain whine/blowback from decoy dependent hunters has kept the banning of decoys on the back burner.....

I'm all for handicapped hunters or even kids using them - I just look at these surveys and think wow, if we just went back to less innovation aka less manufactured hunter aids for hunter success, we would save more mature/boss toms than any of these other neutering options. I mean radio controlled tom decoys are legal for God sakes...

Only 6% of hunters kill their limit, most average hunters dont hunt the humid/hot end of the season, etc. Again, my point is the contrast to the survey - How many mature toms get killed over male decoys?

Btw I had covid or I would have attended the meetings in person. I hope others are bringing up the idea of banning decoys elsewhere.

Survey could have read "banning of all male decoys except for youth and handicapped hunters" etc.

Heck just ban em on cedar creek and pilot test it there. Apparently per the other thread, biologists saw no real change by postponing the season. 



MesquiteHeat said:


> I can tell you several board members were discussing just that to the point I was surprised not to see that as a proposal.  But once they talked to their handicapped friends it might have changed


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 19, 2021)

I was using the term handicapped referring to those that need the help, not truly handicapped individuals. The ones that need the crutch of a male decoy.  Too many people consider decoys essential to their hunt.  When a SC hunter explained to me years ago how fanning worked I thought if that ever makes it on video......


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 19, 2021)

As far as gobbler/jake decoys, yes they are effective but I stopped using Jake decoys 10 years ago when some knucklehead shot my (Non-bearded) Jake decoy from 50 yards away with a single shot 10 gauge and almost blinded me for life...and this was on private land....

So, I put fiction because I have killed a PILE of gobblers with no decoys out at all.


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 19, 2021)

Banning all use of decoys would cause a major reduction in hunter kills of turkeys because many (maybe most) of the turkey "hunters" would just quit and move on to other hobbies once they actually had to get out and hunt to kill one.  
The other factors would still be there though, but it would be a good start IMO.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 19, 2021)

Ban all decoys,no blinds and you have to call your own turkeys and no muzzle loaders unless it is shot instead of single projectile


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

I think all of y’all should be the only ones allowed to hunt turkeys ? 
Y’all the only ones that know how. 
Scratch feed is illegal and I see it and other bird feeds at feed stores during this time. who is buying it. Go to a hardware store and watch. corn sells deer season then scratch durning turkey. Sogrum during bird season. 
I think the most damage is done by the hunters that call real good and shoot over their limits by a lot. They are turkey holics, all y’all know one. Maybe one yourself. 
The decoy guys are mostly part time hunters and getting into it watching that hunting channel. Some get one. A lot more don’t. most turkey hunter don’t kill a bird. Over half killed are by 1/4 the hunters. The run and gun. The veterans!
The one who hunts every morning. 
That’s why the WMA rule
May help. If you kill one u can hunt a wma for so many days. Then u go back to that have to report it thing. Most turkeyholics would just forgo reporting to keep hunting. Now that part timer with the decoy that kills one. He’s happy and wants to show everyone and reports it. He doesn’t hunt as required. But gets labeled the bad turkey hunter. 
Y’all have a good day & enjoy the out doors. Be safe.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

We need more hens, more poults, and more poult recruitment.  What does any of that have to do with decoys?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> Ban all decoys,no blinds and you have to call your own turkeys and no muzzle loaders unless it is shot instead of single projectile


And hear I was looking for someone to call one for me. and that poor hunter who gets enjoyment killing one with his muzzle loader can’t now. how bout the primitive hunter who makes his own arrows with turkey fetching. Hand made hickory bow and a home made turkey wing bone call. is he ok !
He wants us all to hunt like him. ?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> We need more hens, more poults, and more poult recruitment.  What does any of that have to do with decoys?


This year I had more hens. More poults and more up coming turkeys. pretty soon I’ll have more then turkey hunting friend that want to join me. ?
Habitat Habitat Habitat!


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> This year I had more hens. More poults and more up coming turkeys. pretty soon I’ll have more then turkey hunting friend that want to join me. ?
> Habitat Habitat Habitat!



I think the key is habitat and predators...but I'm no biologist...


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## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

White0ak said:


> Heck just ban em on cedar creek and pilot test it there. Apparently per the other thread, biologists saw no real change by postponing the season.



This.

My prediction is this new fad theory about the turkeys getting shot before they breed will be proven invalid eventually.

In the mountains, we have tens of thousands of acres of designated 'wilderness' that never see a turkey hunter, and, thus, the turkey populations are not impacted by hunters efforts. Still fewer turkeys today than 20 years ago. Hunters are not the problem.

Habitat and Predator Control are your tickets to more turkeys.


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## Dbender (Jan 19, 2021)

What is the brand name of the magical decoys y'all are wanting to ban?


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## Dupree (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> We need more hens, more poults, and more poult recruitment.  What does any of that have to do with decoys?


because Dnr tells us too many gobblers and being killed before peak breeding.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 19, 2021)

All decoys.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

Dbender said:


> What is the brand name of the magical decoys y'all are wanting to ban?



The very best out there are the DSDs...I have some...the 4-unit flock...except I never use them...because I don't think they are great in GA in wooded areas...they are better for like the fields in KS IMHO...


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> because Dnr tells us too many gobblers and being killed before peak breeding.



It's funny this winter I've seen as many as 13-14 jakes and gobblers at a time on my lease, not one hen...


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## Beagler282 (Jan 19, 2021)

Make something legal and here come the all mighty critics wanting to change the way folks hunt and do things. Never seen anything like it.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 19, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> This.
> 
> My prediction is this new fad theory about the turkeys getting shot before they breed will be proven invalid eventually.
> 
> ...



As a fellow mountain hunter, I agree with you.  However, the DNR is addressing what it can address.  We all know that habitat management is the #1 issue for the mountains, but what can the DNR do about it?  Predator control?  What can the DNR do about it?  They are already encouraging more bear hunting, but I don't know what impact (if any) that would have on turkeys.  Can the DNR kill coyotes?  Can the DNR bring back the market for furs so that trapping and/or hunting for coons and bobcats is once again profitable?

I see this move by the DNR as the only viable option they have of impacting turkey numbers on public land.  Is it THE answer?  Probably not, but it's about the only tool they have left in their toolbox.


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## White0ak (Jan 19, 2021)

Respecfully, it sounds like you lean to frame the "turkeyholic" guys as having a tendency to be outlaws/poachers or simply just over-killers?

To me, a true "turkeyholic" is a conservationist and that is why you are hearing fact based resistance to certain government restrictions on the season. These hunters care the most thus they are going to stand up against the fair weather hunters/opionators who likely have minimal time afield in the spring.

Please reconsider branding so called "turkeyholics" as the problem when most do more for their local flock than any other weekend warrior in the same club or on the same public land.

As for the poachers, baiters, truck window shooters, I dont think any surveys or laws will stop that from happening. Need steeper penalties.

Fact - Only ~6 percent of hunters tag out in Georgia, so hindering the limit by one isn't going to be a game changer if you consider the data the state has collected for years now.

Respecfully, per your notion around scratch grain and seed during turkey season, it is springtime and stores like Walmart augment their supply chain based on seasonal trends, i.e. spring for the bird feeders. Furthermore, spring is also the best season to grow chickens thus there's always the classic feed store push to buy the cliche baby chicks right around Easter (i.e. TSC). Cue the feed pallets.

Baiting turkeys is for criminals/cheaters who cannot call in a bird and don't understand the pastime because they are likely blinded by digital narcissism.....id argue a close second to baiting in terms of cheating a tom is reaping/fanning. Reaping is simply a male turkey decoy scenario on steroids. Keywords, "male decoy".

I sure would love to see the data around how many toms were killed over a male decoy vs no male decoy. Id bet my pickup truck this would prove my point but the data is unobtainable unless a survey or prompt on the tagging process is implemented.

All this chatter aside, the state likely already has its mind made up. Good luck this season and God bless the internet.



kmckinnie said:


> I think all of y’all should be the only ones allowed to hunt turkeys ?
> Y’all the only ones that know how.
> Scratch feed is illegal and I see it and other bird feeds at feed stores during this time. who is buying it. Go to a hardware store and watch. corn sells deer season then scratch durning turkey. Sogrum during bird season.
> I think the most damage is done by the hunters that call real good and shoot over their limits by a lot. They are turkey holics, all y’all know one. Maybe one yourself.
> ...


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## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

I don’t even bother with Turkey forums anymore. It is an endless loop of baiters, and decoy toters trying to argue their point. A strutter or Jake decoy is a crutch period.  Glad and a little surprised to see as many that agree.


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## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> This.
> 
> My prediction is this new fad theory about the turkeys getting shot before they breed will be proven invalid eventually.
> 
> ...



I agree with the mountain regions. Habitat available food and natural predation are the limiting factors in the mountains.

 I can tell you first hand that starting the season later has had a positive impact on the population in Louisiana. Louisiana moved  the season opener back a few times it now starts 15-16 days later than it once did. Reading a little turkey biology will also prove this point. In La most of the harvest was in the first 3 days of the season. You could say well that’s because it just opened an more hunters etc. Not so after the season move the opening week kill numbers went way down, not number of hunters hunter success. Now the harvest numbers are more spread out. In La we were definitely killing to many Gobblers in March before the majority of hens had been bred. 

Studies are also proving jakes are not a reliable breeder some studies showing they cannot fertilize eggs. Also when the dominant gobbler is killed the hens do not automatically breed the next Gobbler that comes along. No question in La hens were not being bred the entire season and that definitely hurts poult recruitment.  Early March the Gobblers are more likely to run in to a male Turkey decoy aswell.


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## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> As a fellow mountain hunter, I agree with you.  However, the DNR is addressing what it can address.  We all know that habitat management is the #1 issue for the mountains, but what can the DNR do about it?  Predator control?  What can the DNR do about it?  They are already encouraging more bear hunting, but I don't know what impact (if any) that would have on turkeys.  Can the DNR kill coyotes?  Can the DNR bring back the market for furs so that trapping and/or hunting for coons and bobcats is once again profitable?
> 
> I see this move by the DNR as the only viable option they have of impacting turkey numbers on public land.  Is it THE answer?  Probably not, but it's about the only tool they have left in their toolbox.



Making a decision for the sake of making a decision is also not the answer. The consensus in the test at Cedar Creek is that delaying the start of the season has not yielded the desired result. This is what I hear from my buddies who work for the State.

Here's my idea for a study:
On WMA'S, considering we already have full time staff to help manage them, why not pick a WMA that historically is a good turkey wma (like Cooper Creek) and double down on trapping coyotes, coons, and other predators? I bet our staff could easily learn to effectively trap. In addition, hold special event coon hunts, open the gates, encourage youth and folks who still run coon hounds to attend - create a camp and atmosphere much like the fishing rodeos at Rock Creek. Maybe even make it a competition, I'm old enough to say ive been to competition coon hunts.. Recruit the folks we need to make it happen.  Make it a real thing, the internet and this forum are free advertising tools. On this WMA, trap the heck out of the hogs and reduce their numbers for awhile. Again, remember, we have a full time staff on the payroll. Cost would be minimal and turkey hunters would certainly donate some cash where needed, we are a passionate bunch.

Concentrate the effort for a couple years, and I guarantee you will see a difference with the turkeys. Do it right.

On the flip side, why don't we pick another WMA, and close it entirely for the same time period, and see which one shows more improvement? On both of the test WMA'S, trap and GPS some hens like we do deer on Blue Ridge and Bears on Chestatee to see whats happening to the eggs they lay. Trail cams! 

This bad idea and a nickel will buy you a cup of coffee, but IMO its better than the other ideas I've read.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

White0ak said:


> Respecfully, it sounds like you lean to frame the "turkeyholic" guys as having a tendency to be outlaws/poachers or simply just over-killers?
> 
> To me, a true "turkeyholic" is a conservationist and that is why you are hearing fact based resistance to certain government restrictions on the season. These hunters care the most thus they are going to stand up against the fair weather hunters/opionators who likely have minimal time afield in the spring.
> 
> ...


well well well somebody want to frame a man with a decoy and a ground blind. why can’t I put in my .02. 
Veteran turkey hunters have been doing that for years. Or they are lying tome boosting I’ve killed 6 already. not all but a few. Maybe more than a few. Some get several places to hunt. See that way they spread the kills they say. 
Let’s blame the decoy man and the ground blind for killing 1 turkey. ??


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

The system is fine the way it is. Just need everyone to do there part. report your kills so the state can get a picture of the program already in place.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

If banning decoys gave us better turkey hunting then I would be for it.  I’m for whatever will work.  Seems like a lot of folks just want whatever their pet peeves are to become outlawed.  I’ve killed turkeys not using decoys and using them.  When I have used decoys sometimes they’ve worked and sometimes they haven’t.  You’re dealing with a wild animal so there are no guarantees.  As far as what measures will give us better hunting I am for whatever achieves that end.


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## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

Another subject that doesn’t require a lot of mental ability. Either a male decoy or any decoy makes killing a Gobbler easier or it does not. If it does then there’s your answer to why some look down on decoy users and say your using a crutch. If it doesn’t make it easier then you have been conned into toting a sack of 300$ decoys around that don’t work? 

This is the same argument for crossbows or baiting or anything else. Your using it to prop up lack of hunting ability. If you really could kill a Gobbler or deer or whatever without all the extra crutches you’d be doing it. Or are we supposed to believe you tote a 15 pound sack of decoys around cause your a nature lover lol.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

I actually wonder 


Danuwoa said:


> If banning decoys gave us better turkey hunting then I would be for it.  I’m for whatever will work.  Seems like a lot of folks just want whatever their pet peeves are to become outlawed.  I’ve killed turkeys not using decoys and using them.  When I have used decoys sometimes they’ve worked and sometimes they haven’t.  You’re dealing with a wild animal so there are no guarantees.  As far as what measures will give us better hunting I am for whatever achieves that end.



Well said.  The guys I now that whack a lot of turkeys don't use decoys.  In fact almost no one I know that hunts turkeys uses decoys in GA.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

Kisatchie said:


> Another subject that doesn’t require a lot of mental ability. Either a male decoy or any decoy makes killing a Gobbler easier or it does not. If it does then there’s your answer to why some look down on decoy users and say your using a crutch. If it doesn’t make it easier then you have been conned into toting a sack of 300$ decoys around that don’t work?
> 
> This is the same argument for crossbows or baiting or anything else. Your using it to prop up lack of hunting ability. If you really could kill a Gobbler or deer or whatever without all the extra crutches you’d be doing it. Or are we supposed to believe you tote a 15 pound sack of decoys around cause your a nature lover lol.



The reality is, it is non-sensical argument.  Unless you are hunting in a loin cloth, with a knife made of flint, and snares made of animal tissue, it is just degrees of crutches...camo, Thermacell, snake proof boots, 14 calls, your hydration system, etc.  High and mighty holier than thou SuperHunter!  Bah!


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

Kisatchie said:


> Another subject that doesn’t require a lot of mental ability. Either a male decoy or any decoy makes killing a Gobbler easier or it does not. If it does then there’s your answer to why some look down on decoy users and say your using a crutch. If it doesn’t make it easier then you have been conned into toting a sack of 300$ decoys around that don’t work?
> 
> This is the same argument for crossbows or baiting or anything else. Your using it to prop up lack of hunting ability. If you really could kill a Gobbler or deer or whatever without all the extra crutches you’d be doing it. Or are we supposed to believe you tote a 15 pound sack of decoys around cause your a nature lover lol.


I personally don’t care what anyone says about much of anything that I decide to do.  Sure do t care what they think.  Anybody who takes time out of their day to worry about how somebody else hunts needs a psych evaluation.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The reality is, it is non-sensical argument.  Unless you are hunting in a loin cloth, with a knife made of flint, and snares made of animal tissue, it is just degrees of crutches...camo, Thermacell, snake proof boots, 14 calls, your hydration system, etc.  High and mighty holier than thou SuperHunter!  Bah!


Yep.  People who love to crap on how somebody else hunts are weak people.  Old timers would laugh at some of these self styled hard core hunters for wearing camo and would say anyone who needs camo to kill a turkey shouldn’t be in the woods.  You can take that nonsense to crazy ends if you follow it to its logical end.


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## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> I personally don’t care what anyone says about much of anything that I decide to do.  Sure do t care what they think.  Anybody who takes time out of their day to worry about how somebody else hunts needs a psych evaluation.



Yet you take the time to type a response to my post. Are you not the same one that said I would be put on your ignore list because of another post that upset you? If you cannot even trust yourself to follow thru with “ignore” threats how can you be sure you don’t really care what others think ? One of us definitely needs a psych evaluation..that much we agree on. 

For everyone else, you will notice there will NEVER be a rational answer to the question “ if it doesn’t make it easier why do you do it”? All you’ll ever see is “feelings” or “I don’t care” ? You care enough to tell us you don’t care, and that’s good enough for the non decoy users ?


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

Kisatchie said:


> Yet you take the time to type a response to my post. Are you not the same one that said I would be put on your ignore list because of another post that upset you? If you cannot even trust yourself to follow thru with “ignore” threats how can you be sure you don’t really care what others think ? One of us definitely needs a psych evaluation..that much we agree on.
> 
> For everyone else, you will notice there will NEVER be a rational answer to the question “ if it doesn’t make it easier why do you do it”? All you’ll ever see is “feelings” or “I don’t care” ? You care enough to tell us you don’t care, and that’s good enough for the non decoy users ?


In fourteen years on this forum I’ve rarely ever had to use the ignore feature because I’ve rarely run across  anyone who doesn’t just come here to do nothing but troll but it seems like you’re one of those people.  I’ve known guys like you and they crack me up.  Kid  I would be willing to bet I’ve called up more turkeys for other people to kill than you’ve ever killed.  We won’t even get to what I’ve killed myself.  So listening to you act all hard about your hunting skills is comedy to me.  You’re fooling yourself but you’re not fooling me.?. The part that makes me laugh the hardest is when guys like you say things like, “You wouldn’t lug a decoy around the woods if you didn’t need it.”??. If toting a decoy that weighs a few ounces is lugging to you, you need to hit the gym son because you are weak.


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## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> In fourteen years on this forum I’ve rarely ever had to use the ignore feature because I’ve rarely run across  anyone who doesn’t just come here to do nothing but troll but it seems like you’re one of those people.  I’ve known guys like you and they crack me up.  Kid  I would be willing to bet I’ve called up more turkeys for other people to kill than you’ve ever killed.  We won’t even get to what I’ve killed myself.  So listening to you act all hard about your hunting skills is comedy to me.  You’re fooling yourself but you’re not fooling me.?. The part that makes me laugh the hardest is when guys like you say things like, “You wouldn’t lug a decoy around the woods if you didn’t need it.”??. If toting a decoy that weighs a few ounces is lugging to you, you need to hit the gym son because you are weak.



You are the one with the ignore threats which turned out to be you just running your mouth without actually doing what you said. People that say one thing and do another are a dime a dozen. I seriously doubt you have called, killed or even seen more Gobblers than I have. One thing for certain none of the ones I have killed required bait, decoys or tents. 

If your decoy weighs couple ounces your probably still toting some of the 1980s foam decoys, which means you don’t even have a good crutch ? The new real lifelike decoys weigh quite a bit more than a few ounces just so you know. And everytime I see someone stumbling around in the woods they got 3 or 4 in a sack. 

Pretty clear you spend way more time on a forum (14 years wow) trying to convince people your something your not with your one liners than doing any hunting. 

Ima show you how the ignore thing works. See I’m done reading your whining and make believe tough guy garbage. I’m putting you on the ignore list and unlike you I actually do what I say. ? Bye


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

Kisatchie said:


> You are the one with the ignore threats which turned out to be you just running your mouth without actually doing what you said. People that say one thing and do another are a dime a dozen. I seriously doubt you have called, killed or even seen more Gobblers than I have. One thing for certain none of the ones I have killed required bait, decoys or tents.
> 
> If your decoy weighs couple ounces your probably still toting some of the 1980s foam decoys, which means you don’t even have a good crutch ? The new real lifelike decoys weigh quite a bit more than a few ounces just so you know. And everytime I see someone stumbling around in the woods they got 3 or 4 in a sack.
> 
> ...


Do some pull-ups  kid.  And stop worrying about how other people hunt.


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## jbogg (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> Banning male decoys would save more “dominant” gobblers early season than any proposed regs, (except for delaying season all together). The ones who are against doing that rely on them to get a kill.



It feels like some folks are supportive of regulation changes as long as it does not affect them. At least pushing back the start date affects all hunters equally.


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## TurkeyKiller12 (Jan 19, 2021)

I am more of a run and gun type hunter but the times I have used the strutting decoys, they were not worth the hassle. I have never killed a turkey using any types of decoys that I can remember.


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## six (Jan 19, 2021)

I think it’s two fold.   It would save a number of turkeys just for the fact of no male decoys being used.  And I believe it would cause a decrease in hunter numbers, also saving some gobblers.  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t care how the next man hunts turkeys, not my concern.    In fact I wish everyone had to use decoys and blinds except me.


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## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

I don’t care who uses what decoy, but some “reaper” will eventually be shot in the head.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

jbogg said:


> It feels like some folks are supportive of regulation changes as long as it does not affect them. At least pushing back the start date affects all hunters equally.


As far as decoys, Daniel Boone up there has trouble reading.  He just got triggered by the word decoy.  Like I said to start with, I’m for whatever works and will give us better turkey hunting.  If that means outlawing decoys I’m good with that.  I’ve killed plenty of turkeys without them.


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## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Making a decision for the sake of making a decision is also not the answer. The consensus in the test at Cedar Creek is that delaying the start of the season has not yielded the desired result. This is what I hear from my buddies who work for the State.
> 
> Here's my idea for a study:
> On WMA'S, considering we already have full time staff to help manage them, why not pick a WMA that historically is a good turkey wma (like Cooper Creek) and double down on trapping coyotes, coons, and other predators? I bet our staff could easily learn to effectively trap. In addition, hold special event coon hunts, open the gates, encourage youth and folks who still run coon hounds to attend - create a camp and atmosphere much like the fishing rodeos at Rock Creek. Maybe even make it a competition, I'm old enough to say ive been to competition coon hunts.. Recruit the folks we need to make it happen.  Make it a real thing, the internet and this forum are free advertising tools. On this WMA, trap the heck out of the hogs and reduce their numbers for awhile. Again, remember, we have a full time staff on the payroll. Cost would be minimal and turkey hunters would certainly donate some cash where needed, we are a passionate bunch.
> ...



Those ideas make far too much sense. You would be fired within a year if you were hired on to the state!  Haha


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## White0ak (Jan 19, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> well well well somebody want to frame a man with a decoy and a ground blind. why can’t I put in my .02.
> Veteran turkey hunters have been doing that for years. Or they are lying tome boosting I’ve killed 6 already. not all but a few. Maybe more than a few. Some get several places to hunt. See that way they spread the kills they say.
> Let’s blame the decoy man and the ground blind for killing 1 turkey. ??



If they're killing over the limit, you're dealing with a violator and they arent a conservationist. If they're calling in birds for friends and citing the tally, good for them spreading the experience to other hunters who are hopefully appreciative of a real turkey hunter.

Not blaming any one person, again just looking at data as a whole. No bias, just stating more birds die over male turkey decoys for those #1 and #2 tags (not even counting #3 which would boost the tally) than the holistic #3 tally of tags from those ~6% of tagged out hunters. The data doesn't exist but again, id bet a lot on my assessment versus the lore of the internet. There's no data measure specifically to map male decoy owners/purchases to tags punched over a  male decoy setup.

Heck, maybe they will invent & legalize hologram decoys next, radio controlled gobblers are too primitive in 2021.

Those killing over the limit will get caught and the fines and penalties need to be steeper.


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

Lets ban camo.  Real hunters don’t need it.?


----------



## toolmkr20 (Jan 19, 2021)

I think you should have to go out in a loin cloth, chase one down and kill it with your bare hands or you ain’t no real turkey hunter!! Ban it all, ban everything if you don’t hunt like me.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

What kind of fake hunter uses a gun?  Ban guns from turkey hunting.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

How about we ban anybody wanting to ban anything?


----------



## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> How about we ban anybody wanting to ban anything?



Are you starting the coalition to stop coalitions?


----------



## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

If we making a list of things to ban. How bout all them flat brimmed hatted  morons  with the turkey fan mounted to their .410s?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Are you starting the coalition to stop coalitions?



I just get so tired of the elitism of hunters...not realizing that the enemy is not our fellow hunters...it is our fellow non-hunters...


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I just get so tired of the elitism of hunters...not realizing that the enemy is not our fellow hunters...it is our fellow non-hunters...


Elitist hunters act like liberals.  Whatever they don’t like should be banned.  I can’t imagine caring that much what somebody else does that I want there to be rules against it so I can feel better.


----------



## MCNASTY (Jan 19, 2021)

Its pretty simple to me, I doubt banning decoys or "male decoys" will drastically effect the population. It has everything to do with habitat, food sources, and hunter's practices. The one real tactic I am for is limiting a 1-bird bag limit per day. How many people do you see kill 2 or 3 in one shot or one hunt? That decreases the density dramatically that day in that area. 

Also, how many others have seen timber being cut (mature stands) at a high rate in the state? I realize turkeys thrive on clear cuts but only for a year or two then they're limited to the roads and small openings or they leave the property (increasing predator opportunities).
Another big threat in south GA is the farmer's practices. Chicken litter immediately changes a turkeys habits of feeding, breeding, and living in/around a field. I personally don't know if chicken litter kills turkeys but it most definitely causes them to leave. Fields in my county growing up would be full of strutting turkeys now early spring you'd have a hard time finding a single bird in a field all day riding. Numbers is down yes, but why? Its habitat, farming/forestry practices, and those guys killing 3-4 people's limits every season.


----------



## six (Jan 19, 2021)

toolmkr20 said:


> I think you should have to go out in a loin cloth, chase one down and kill it with your bare hands or you ain’t no real turkey hunter!! Ban it all, ban everything if you don’t hunt like me.


Yes, ban everything, except the loin cloth. Without the loin cloth could be considered baiting.


----------



## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

All fun aside I don’t think any ONE thing has caused Turkey populations to dwindle over the entire southeast. You add everything together and you have what we got now. Fanning and male decoys does put  a dent in the population and in some areas a big dent.

10 years ago hunting Nebraska all the locals used fans, I doubt any ever called to a Gobbler. Talking to some of them they bragged about being able to kill every adult Gobbler or (Tom) as they say in a ag field. They said you could continue going back to the same field and eventually kill them all. Might have to come in from another direction but it was just a matter of time.

Now fanning and male decoys are rampant all over the country. YouTube has made an entire group of “hunters” that don’t know any other way, don’t care to know any other way. When 20 people are doing it probably not gonna matter but now you got thousands doing it. Real simple math. If someone cannot kill a Gobbler without the crutch he would remove exactly zero Gobblers from the flock, if you banned fans/decoys. Multiply that by how many googans are killing a Gobbler that would still be breeding hens if you knocked the crutch out of his hand?

Statewide habitat improvement is more than a little difficult to sustain. Total Predator control is also a pipe dream. Stopping “Instagram hero’s” from crutch killing Gobblers is an easy step. It is a finite resource with ever increasing demand. You kill more Gobblers there will be less Gobblers not real hard to understand.

I’d be all for letting private land hunters do whatever they “need” to do to finally kill a Gobbler. Leave the crutches in the truck on public land.

And you really can’t compare the 1980s population with today. The populations in the southeast were artificially increased with transplanted turkeys. It takes time for the coyotes and other predators to adjust to the new food source if there were no turkeys there before. Well all the predators are up to speed now, plus a lot more hunters, a lot more readily available info on how to call/hunt turkeys than 1980, more efficient and longer range shells. Common sense alone would dictate you can’t stack every single thing against the wild Turkey and expect things not to change.

Lastly I think we need to listen to Wild life biologists who have spent way more time studying Turkeys than a forum keyboard Comando that hunts 5 Saturday’s per season.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

six said:


> Yes, ban everything, except the loin cloth. Without the loin cloth could be considered baiting.


Quote of the Day right there...


----------



## saltysenior (Jan 19, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> What kind of fake hunter uses a gun?  Ban guns from turkey hunting.



Why not ... the whole deal in ''real'' turkey hunting is to call a gobbler into shotgun range...after that it's just marksmanship.  just imagine what the turkey population would be in a few years...that is , of course , if hunters are a significant  reason for declining numbers


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## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

saltysenior said:


> Why not ... the whole deal in ''real'' turkey hunting is to call a gobbler into shotgun range...after that it's just marksmanship.  just imagine what the turkey population would be in a few years...that is , of course , if hunters are a significant  reason for declining numbers



We’d save every last egg layed by the Toms and Jakes, and that’s a fact!


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## Sixes (Jan 19, 2021)

Nothing will change until the disappearance of the hens is solved.  From what I saw, hens disappeared just as fast as the gobblers did, and just like in the deer population, no hens equals no turkeys of either sex after a couple of years.


The place that I am talking about is lightly hunted, has a full time trapper, edges, crops, water, everything you need.

It went from seeing flocks in every field, with some approaching 75-100 birds in January to ZERO in any field in the surrounding area. This happened in a 2-3 year time frame.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

Sixes said:


> Nothing will change until the disappearance of the hens is solved.  From what I saw, hens disappeared just as fast as the gobblers did, and just like in the deer population, no hens equals no turkeys of either sex after a couple of years.
> 
> 
> The place that I am talking about is lightly hunted, has a full time trapper, edges, crops, water, everything you need.
> ...



What year did it start?  Our turkeys were a similar story, then a guy to the north put up a spin feeder, they seemed to revolve around it. They then quickly disappeared. This was right after the baiting law changed. They’ve since balanced back out some.  I’m not a fan of feeders for turkeys.


----------



## saltysenior (Jan 19, 2021)

Sixes said:


> Nothing will change until the disappearance of the hens is solved.  From what I saw, hens disappeared just as fast as the gobblers did, and just like in the deer population, no hens equals no turkeys of either sex after a couple of years.
> 
> 
> The place that I am talking about is lightly hunted, has a full time trapper, edges, crops, water, everything you need.
> ...



All the theories about habitat,predators,burning,poaching seasons and limits etc., may have a limited effect on local population of birds..however none of them could be responsible for what you experienced ....others and myself have observed similar rapid disappearance of larger flocks for no apparent reason....In many regions and states...my mind says disease . If it can affect a large flock , I'm sure it also be a factor in smaller populations..


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 19, 2021)

I would be fine if they just left everything as it is now.I really don't care how anybody hunts.I think Buckman has good idea about shutting down 1 wma at a time trapping and improving habitat and see if that helps and if it does increase amount of wma's.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

Sixes said:


> Nothing will change until the disappearance of the hens is solved.  From what I saw, hens disappeared just as fast as the gobblers did, and just like in the deer population, no hens equals no turkeys of either sex after a couple of years.
> 
> 
> The place that I am talking about is lightly hunted, has a full time trapper, edges, crops, water, everything you need.
> ...



On my last deer lease, the adjacent landowner told me they used to see 50+ birds literally every night moving across the pasture.  In the past 10 years, they have all but disappeared.  

On my current lease I see up to 13-14 males at a time, jakes to gobblers...only a few hens, and even fewer poults on camera...and we are running 14 cameras on 500 acres.

The hens are about as scarce as hot chick in Cleveland in the summer...


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> On my last deer lease, the adjacent landowner told me they used to see 50+ birds literally every night moving across the pasture.  In the past 10 years, they have all but disappeared.
> 
> On my current lease I see up to 13-14 males at a time, jakes to gobblers...only a few hens, and even fewer poults on camera...and we are running 14 cameras on 500 acres.
> 
> The hens are about as scarce as hot chick in Cleveland in the summer...



My neighbor has seen a buck with a rump as wide as a horse and lots of people here are constantly seeing panthers, some of them black. I wouldn’t hold the notion of that old 50 bird flock reliably marching across the pasture every evening too close to your heart.


----------



## antharper (Jan 19, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Making a decision for the sake of making a decision is also not the answer. The consensus in the test at Cedar Creek is that delaying the start of the season has not yielded the desired result. This is what I hear from my buddies who work for the State.
> 
> Here's my idea for a study:
> On WMA'S, considering we already have full time staff to help manage them, why not pick a WMA that historically is a good turkey wma (like Cooper Creek) and double down on trapping coyotes, coons, and other predators? I bet our staff could easily learn to effectively trap. In addition, hold special event coon hunts, open the gates, encourage youth and folks who still run coon hounds to attend - create a camp and atmosphere much like the fishing rodeos at Rock Creek. Maybe even make it a competition, I'm old enough to say ive been to competition coon hunts.. Recruit the folks we need to make it happen.  Make it a real thing, the internet and this forum are free advertising tools. On this WMA, trap the heck out of the hogs and reduce their numbers for awhile. Again, remember, we have a full time staff on the payroll. Cost would be minimal and turkey hunters would certainly donate some cash where needed, we are a passionate bunch.
> ...


Great idea , I can already tell you how the study would turn out . I’ve already done it on 600 acres and we got more turkeys than most would believe . And not hunting them isn’t the ticket


----------



## bobocat (Jan 19, 2021)

I usually just flip a coin on if I'm going to shoot one over a decoy or off the roost. Please don't take one of my options away ?


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## bluemarlin (Jan 19, 2021)

You don't need a decoy to kill a old tom.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

antharper said:


> Great idea , I can already tell you how the study would turn out . I’ve already done it on 600 acres and we got more turkeys than most would believe . And not hunting them isn’t the ticket


u going turkey with never his year. I’ll do the shooting. ???


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

antharper said:


> Great idea , I can already tell you how the study would turn out . I’ve already done it on 600 acres and we got more turkeys than most would believe . And not hunting them isn’t the ticket


600 acres. !!!I’ve only got a little corner. 
This year You can come here by with me. I get the 1st two shots. ?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

Couple from today. 5 gobblers total. 1good one.


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## XIronheadX (Jan 19, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> Couple from today. 5 gobblers total. 1good one. View attachment 1061414View attachment 1061415


Put them decoys back in the barn, Kmac. Don't be teasing these fellas.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> My neighbor has seen a buck with a rump as wide as a horse and lots of people here are constantly seeing panthers, some of them black. I wouldn’t hold the notion of that old 50 bird flock reliably marching across the pasture every evening too close to your heart.



Yeah it is a person who has lived there her whole life and doesn't hunt, I don't think she has any reason to embellish...


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## kmckinnie (Jan 19, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> Put them decoys back in the barn, Kmac. Don't be teasing these fellas.


I try not to but when they talk about a new bee hunting with a decoy. Killing all the turkeys ???


----------



## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

antharper said:


> Great idea , I can already tell you how the study would turn out . I’ve already done it on 600 acres and we got more turkeys than most would believe . And not hunting them isn’t the ticket



Many of the folks crybabying to shorten the season, change the laws,, etc are the same ones who crybaby in the deer forum as well.

They just don't get it and probably never will.


----------



## hold em hook (Jan 19, 2021)

White0ak said:


> If they're killing over the limit, you're dealing with a violator and they arent a conservationist. If they're calling in birds for friends and citing the tally, good for them spreading the experience to other hunters who are hopefully appreciative of a real turkey hunter.
> 
> Not blaming any one person, again just looking at data as a whole. No bias, just stating more birds die over male turkey decoys for those #1 and #2 tags (not even counting #3 which would boost the tally) than the holistic #3 tally of tags from those ~6% of tagged out hunters. The data doesn't exist but again, id bet a lot on my assessment versus the lore of the internet. There's no data measure specifically to map male decoy owners/purchases to tags punched over a  male decoy setup.
> 
> ...


?


----------



## stonecreek (Jan 19, 2021)

I live on and hunt the family farm. While I trap every coon I can the # 1 killer of turkey nests last year was our own tractors in my opinion. When I see plenty of birds I will limit out. But if I think it’s a down year for birds here then I will hunt another property or just take pics. Last year was my best year. Never carried a gun but rather called in 2 gobblers for the kids.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

stonecreek said:


> I live on and hunt the family farm. While I trap every coon I can the # 1 killer of turkey nests last year was our own tractors in my opinion. When I see plenty of birds I will limit out. But if I think it’s a down year for birds here then I will hunt another property or just take pics. Last year was my best year. Never carried a gun but rather called in 2 gobblers for the kids.



Tell me about it!  Two years ago the oats were so late when they cut them for silage they outright killed three hens and apparently mangled a fourth in a 100 acre field that surrounds my house. The farmer will no longer allow cutting at night. Maybe it’ll at least save a hen or two.


----------



## stonecreek (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Tell me about it!  Two years ago the oats were so late when they cut them for silage they outright killed three hens and apparently mangled a fourth in a 100 acre field that surrounds my house. The farmer will no longer allow cutting at night. Maybe it’ll at least save a hen or two.


Yep got 6 last year eggs and hens made me sick. Did salvage the wingbones tho.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

stonecreek said:


> Yep got 6 last year eggs and hens made me sick. Did salvage the wingbones tho.



That can really add up. Ours seem to be coming back, but you have to wonder how far ahead we might be if it never happened.  This was a new flock. I lived here 14 years turkey free and now we’re on year five since they’ve arrived. Don’t tell anyone though!  It might ruin the narrative that turkeys are going extinct state wide.


----------



## antharper (Jan 19, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> 600 acres. !!!I’ve only got a little corner.
> This year You can come here by with me. I get the 1st two shots. ?


I save them fat chufa fed turkeys for my daughter , I usually get my 3 on public land


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## antharper (Jan 19, 2021)

stonecreek said:


> Yep got 6 last year eggs and hens made me sick. Did salvage the wingbones tho.


That’s a shame , a couple years ago a guy was cutting hayfield in my dads front yard and found a nest and cut around it . She lasted 2 nights and nothing but a few feathers left


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## antharper (Jan 19, 2021)

And with all this complaining you wouldn’t think the trapping forum would be one of the slowest on here


----------



## Kisatchie (Jan 19, 2021)

I see y’all had another vote dump ? Things were pretty much stable all day? You Georgia boys can’t be trusted with votes.


----------



## Sixes (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> What year did it start?  Our turkeys were a similar story, then a guy to the north put up a spin feeder, they seemed to revolve around it. They then quickly disappeared. This was right after the baiting law changed. They’ve since balanced back out some.  I’m not a fan of feeders for turkeys.


About 2014 or 2015. The land is on the Laurens/Bleckley line and is ~9500 acres of lightly hunted land that is surrounded by thousands of acres of farm land, woods and beautiful turkey land.

Last year we did not hunt the property due to covid. 2019, I saw 2 longbeards and 2 jakes with a handful of hens in 6 days.

In 2018, we left after the third morning, it rained off and on and we saw 0 in hundreds of acres of AG fields, and 0 tracks anywhere. We left to another property about 50 miles back north (Butts county) that is full of turkeys and the population never seems to change.

2015-2017, average to below average hunting. Maybe one or two gobblers

2010-2014, more birds that you can imagine, gobbling all over the property and surrounding area. Birds in fields in big groups, satellite birds wondering around like lost puppies. It was common to see huge groups of jakes, biggest I recall was 17 jakes that seemed to follow one of our guys no matter where he went.

I attribute it to chicken manure, I've said it before, but during that time frame, the owner went from a liquid fertilizer to mounds of chicken manure at each field and from what we could see from the road, a lot of other farmers were doing the same thing. I think hens picked up a disease and died and with no hens, there has been no poults.

After the manure started, 2-3 years later, there were basically ZERO turkeys, hens or gobblers.

I also hunt in Butts, Cherokee and Troup a lot and all 3 of those counties have stable to increasing populations. Poachers are more of an issue in Troup, but it is a matter of time before me and him cross paths. 

The difference in these 3 places is there is no AG, only woods and food plots. The predator population on these are also a lot higher than on the plantation that I mentioned at the beginning of the post.  

I know this thread was about decoys, but I can't decoy what isn't there anymore.


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 20, 2021)

Kisatchie said:


> If we making a list of things to ban. How bout all them flat brimmed hatted  morons  with the turkey fan mounted to their .410s?



They probably drive squatted trucks too...


----------



## Timber1 (Jan 20, 2021)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> On my last deer lease, the adjacent landowner told me they used to see 50+ birds literally every night moving across the pasture.  In the past 10 years, they have all but disappeared.
> 
> On my current lease I see up to 13-14 males at a time, jakes to gobblers...only a few hens, and even fewer poults on camera...and we are running 14 cameras on 500 acres.
> 
> The hens are about as scarce as hot chick in Cleveland in the summer...


Where do you think all these male turkeys are coming from if there are no hens?


----------



## Timber1 (Jan 20, 2021)

Welp...all I can say after reading some of these threads is that smart hunters are not the problem.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Jan 20, 2021)

Timber1 said:


> Where do you think all these male turkeys are coming from if there are no hens?



I honestly have no idea, whether they are split up on surrounding properties or what.  Obviously the jakes are coming from hens somewhere, but on cam I see mostly males.  It's strange...


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 20, 2021)




----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 20, 2021)

Pics yesterday


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## MCNASTY (Jan 21, 2021)

Sixes said:


> About 2014 or 2015. The land is on the Laurens/Bleckley line and is ~9500 acres of lightly hunted land that is surrounded by thousands of acres of farm land, woods and beautiful turkey land.
> 
> Last year we did not hunt the property due to covid. 2019, I saw 2 longbeards and 2 jakes with a handful of hens in 6 days.
> 
> ...



I hunt in Telfair, Jeff Davis, Appling, and Wheeler and have noticed the same trend. I think there's definitely something to chicken litter.


----------



## bluemarlin (Jan 21, 2021)

You are looking at this wrong.

I live on a farm in Virginia. Between our place and my neighbors we have 1400 acres. 7-8 years ago we had a dozen turkey... The last 5 years we have targeted coyotes, opossums, and raccoons. Mainly yotes. It became our game. Mostly night hunting them. We wiped them out for the most part. Hardly ever hear them howling... That wasn't the case before.

Now we have, I'm guessing from trail cams and sightings... 50-70 turkey.

Start killing turkey predators and you'll have turkey.

This past years clutch had remarkable survival rate. I have trail cam video of hens and 15+ young roosters together in December 2020.
I have way more turkey than deer now. 

You don't need anyone to tell you how to regulate a turkey population. Get off your butts and start predator hunting.


----------



## lampern (Jan 21, 2021)

What about changing federal law to shoot great horned owls?

They eat turkeys


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## bluemarlin (Jan 21, 2021)

lampern said:


> What about changing federal law to shoot great horned owls?
> 
> They eat turkeys



This is how I feel the GA DNR meetings proceed ^


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## buckpasser (Jan 22, 2021)

lampern said:


> What about changing federal law to shoot great horned owls?
> 
> They eat turkeys



Great horned owl treatment = S.S.S.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 22, 2021)

Need to make it legal to kill some of these hawks they kill more turkeys than you think.


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## Dupree (Jan 22, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> Need to make it legal to kill some of these hawks they kill more turkeys than you think.


The old timers who are now dead and gone killed every owl and hawk they saw. There is definitely higher birds of prey populations now than 30 years ago.


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## sea trout (Jan 22, 2021)

My little dumb opinion is that male decoys, (decoys period), don't even work good!
I have a Tom decoy. It has scared more birds away than it has attracted into gun range. But the show of when a Tom does come to it is SPECTACULAR!!!! Can't deny that action. If you havn't seen it in real life at 30 yards yer missin it! However it stays at home now because of its UNsuccessfulness 99 pecent of the time.
Maybe most of y'all complainin about wantin to ban male decoys havn't even ever used em!! Cause they have NO MAGICAL success rate. They are garbage and don't work. And huntin accidents WILL increase with the use of em!
Imagine how much money people are making through manufacturing all these gobbler huntin gimmicks!!! Who wants to deny this manufacturing their jobs and money!!!???
Have a great day everybody!! Good luck this spring! And in the meantime..... STAY OFF my huntin club!!!


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## kmckinnie (Jan 22, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Have a great day everybody!! Good luck this spring! And in the meantime..... STAY OFF my huntin club!!!


That was antharper. ?


----------



## sea trout (Jan 22, 2021)

Here's a video I took of what really happens when using a gobbler decoy.
The real gobbler never came close. But would've followed his harem of hens down had my stupid decoy not ah been there


----------



## sea trout (Jan 22, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> That was antharper. ?


Ahhh ha ha ha
He blamed you first I think!!


----------



## sea trout (Jan 22, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I attribute it to chicken manure, I've said it before, but during that time frame, the owner went from a liquid fertilizer to mounds of chicken manure at each field and from what we could see from the road, a lot of other farmers were doing the same thing. I think hens picked up a disease and died and with no hens, there has been no poults.



Why isn't this being talked about more!!!????
Fact is=Blacks Heads dezeez and Cholera kill turkeys! It would kill the chickens but the commercial chicken doesn't live long enough to be affected!
I am very fortunate but have worked hard to be able to have around a dozen private land turkey huntin spots. The spots in and around open agriculture where chicken manure is used id the areas of the most decreasing turkey population that I see.
The deep timber management flocks that I hunt have better population now than ever!


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 22, 2021)

I’ve wrote about it before on here, but there’s a disease the game chicken folks call “fowl pox” that goes through them. It may be the the same thing, but their heads swell up with numerous painful looking bumps and eventually they can be temporarily blinded by it.  A blind wild turkey has a short shelf life.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 22, 2021)

Smoking gun?


“There are two viruses present in the wild turkey population that may produce visible wart-like growths or lesions on the head, neck or other non-feathered parts of the bird:

Avian Pox Virus has been present in the U.S. for decades and Lymphoproliferative Disease Virus was first reported in the U.S in 2009.”


----------



## MesquiteHeat (Jan 22, 2021)

Sea Trout all that video shows is you weren't even in the spot


----------



## White0ak (Jan 23, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Sea Trout all that video shows is you weren't even in the spot



x2


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## saltysenior (Jan 23, 2021)

Dupree said:


> The old timers who are now dead and gone killed every owl and hawk they saw. There is definitely higher birds of prey populations now than 30 years ago.


in the 60's when I first was expose to a few ranches that focused on quail,,I wondered why every truck or buggy carried a .22 Hornet or a .222...when I asked about the #1 Victor traps, I found out about the rifles too.....But I think disease is a bigger problem..


----------



## Browning Slayer (Jan 23, 2021)

Who needs a decoy when folks have feeders. 

How hard is it to “outsmart” a bird with a brain the size of a walnut?


----------



## strothershwacker (Jan 23, 2021)

I seen a lot more turkeys this past season. Some of them had driven from several states away.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 23, 2021)

Dupree said:


> The old timers who are now dead and gone killed every owl and hawk they saw. There is definitely higher birds of prey populations now than 30 years ago.




No they didn`t. I was raised by those old timers. They had a lot more walking around sense than young folks these days give hem credit for.


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## Dupree (Jan 23, 2021)

You weren’t raised by the same old timers I’m referring to, obviously. They were much wiser than me, so not sure how you gathered from my comment that I didn’t think they were wise.


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## sea trout (Jan 23, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Sea Trout all that video shows is you weren't even in the spot





White0ak said:


> x2



Not in what spot? I guess I don't understand something...


----------



## six (Jan 23, 2021)

I’m just guessing but they are probably talking about the killing spot.   I know videos don’t show the whole story, but looking at that video the first thing I thought was good luck with that.   It looks like you were in a spot where the gobbler wouldn’t come in gun range 9 out of 10 times, decoy or no decoy.   But standing there in person it may look entirely different.


----------



## sea trout (Jan 23, 2021)

six said:


> I’m just guessing but they are probably talking about the killing spot.   I know videos don’t show the whole story, but looking at that video the first thing I thought was good luck with that.   It looks like you were in a spot where the gobbler wouldn’t come in gun range 9 out of 10 times, decoy or no decoy.   But standing there in person it may look entirely different.



Yeah that's cool I can understand that.
But your right, I just briefly videoed the strutter. In the next 10 to 15 minutes all the hens came right down past the struttin decoy and flanked me on both sides and the Tom would not come down the same path, He ended up entering the woods to my left and flanking me a long way around to catch back up and mingle with the hens in the field outta range behind me.
Never the less, I think, (but I'm probly aint right), I think this video shows how "male decoys" have NO magic power.


----------



## six (Jan 23, 2021)

Oh, I fully agree.   Thats why in an earlier post I said I wish everyone had to use decoys except me.   I’ve seen more negative reactions than positive.   I see more success with a strutter decoy when there are multiple gobblers.

In my opinion decoys are a big advantage for newer and less experienced hunters.   And a big disadvantage for experienced hunters.   If that makes sense.


----------



## sea trout (Jan 23, 2021)

Yes I agree.
I bought the strutter decoy when my son was 5 or 6. He's 12 now. He saw it at walmart and he wanted it so bad and I didn't get it. He talked about it for days after and I wanted him to be interested in going with me so I went back to walmart one day and got it. He was so happy! The first Tom that saw that during a turkey hunt on our Wilkes co lease slammed on the brakes and turned around and ran! That decoy has had 3 Toms over 6ish years aproach it that I shot and all 3 experiences were so intense it's absolutley awesome to witness!!! But it's scared away more than triple that many gobblers that may have came in otherwise.


I think overall decoys are NOT my cup of tea.
But I have enjoyed the situations when they did work.
In a nut shell I think if men and women have jobs manufacturing these things and people are buying them and enjoying using them then so be it! Let it be!
My opinion is decoys don't work good enough to need to be outlawed.


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 23, 2021)

Its less about 'working all the time' or a magic power and more about when it does....it often involves a mature 4-5+ yr old gobbler that under ordinary circumstances doesn't get killed by any skill level of hunter 95% of the time.  And he's the one doing your substantial breeding, the ones the hens really sit for.  And I bet those 2yr olds run like heck, some of those strutting decoys are as big as a 55gal drum.


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 23, 2021)

And yeah with ground blinds, and scratch feed and strutter decoys it's always a youngin' or some frail old man that 'don't get around like he used to' attached to the gimmick. And we all know those young and old folks don't ever make it out of bed that much and wind up going.  Your son was with you 100 yards off of Hugh Hefner's hill of love?  Next morning I'd have him at the top of the hill on the barrel and the strutter thing burned at camp the night before


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## Nicodemus (Jan 23, 2021)

Dupree said:


> You weren’t raised by the same old timers I’m referring to, obviously. They were much wiser than me, so not sure how you gathered from my comment that I didn’t think they were wise.




Raised by them? I m one of them.  

Good luck to you this season. And welcome back to the Forum.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 23, 2021)

Poor ol sea trout.


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## sea trout (Jan 23, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> Poor ol sea trout.


I tell ya what...... I guess I'm the worst kinda terrible when I can't even do what should be outlawed right! It's like being the bank robber who who accidently went to the florist but still failed at robbing that!
I'll just hang my head low and kick a can down the dirt road this season. Maybe my kids will get a new dad, a better dad next time.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 23, 2021)

sea trout said:


> I tell ya what...... I guess I'm the worst kinda terrible when I can't even do what should be outlawed right! It's like being the bank robber who who accidently went to the florist but still failed at robbing that!
> I'll just hang my head low and kick a can down the dirt road this season. Maybe my kids will get a new dad, a better dad next time.


I’d take him in. But u done spoiled him. He wants to shoot 1st. Beside y’all done burnt that decoy that kills the big breeder turkeys. No hen going to let a jake or 2yo be a daddy.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 23, 2021)

That ol hen would rather sit dud eggs !
She going to lay them and they no good because of that decoy. I hope u lose that can half way down the road. ?


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## antharper (Jan 23, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Sea Trout all that video shows is you weren't even in the spot


He may of not been in the right spot , but he’s been in the right spot a bunch ?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 23, 2021)

antharper said:


> He may of not been in the right spot , but he’s been in the right spot a bunch ?


I tried tell him it’s you on his place. ?


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## sea trout (Jan 23, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> And yeah with ground blinds, and scratch feed and strutter decoys it's always a youngin' or some frail old man that 'don't get around like he used to' attached to the gimmick. And we all know those young and old folks don't ever make it out of bed that much and wind up going.  Your son was with you 100 yards off of Hugh Hefner's hill of love?  Next morning I'd have him at the top of the hill on the barrel and the strutter thing burned at camp the night before



Hey thanks man! Yeah I understand.
Lot more to that Tennessee hill than that. If you can see a place a top that hill to call to then watch that magnificent Tom come into range and then have a good shot you point that spot out to everyone ok. I'll be there again in a couple months and I'll check it out.
 I know that hill top well. Fact is When you sit down next to any tree up there your visability turns to 10 yards or less. Look how the dome is shaped. It would be easy to kill that tom from the top. The flock lands there every morning. Just not our cup a tea to see a gobbler at 10 yards, hope its the one we're after and blow his head off. 
When the birds work their way down the mountain we hunt them that way and enjoy every second of it. 
Check out how fast that tom comes to that strutter decoy! That's what this thread is about, that's what I'm tryin to show is not true. Just want to offer evidence for the "fiction" argument!!


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## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

Check out how fast that tom comes to that strutter decoy! That's what this thread is about, that's what I'm tryin to show is not true. Just want to offer evidence for the "fiction" argument!!
.
Thankyou. Fine job.


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## 3chunter (Jan 24, 2021)

Back in early 90’s it took me 6 years to kill my first turkey. Now with a strutter and a field and a newbie on opening day has a good shot at shooting one before breakfast.   And it will be the biggest oldest bird in the flock.  Those birds used to never die and if they did it was late season.  This has an affect on the flock.  Period.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

3chunter said:


> Back in early 90’s it took me 6 years to kill my first turkey. Now with a strutter and a field and a newbie on opening day has a good shot at shooting one before breakfast.   And it will be the biggest oldest bird in the flock.  Those birds used to never die and if they did it was late season.  This has an affect on the flock.  Period.


How does it effect the flock ?
And have u seen this killing before breakfast deal ?


----------



## Stick (Jan 24, 2021)

So...  Do I shoot the jakes and leave the old mature gobblers to improve the breeding in my area?  Does this work with deer too?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

Stick said:


> So...  Do I shoot the jakes and leave the old mature gobblers to improve the breeding in my area?  Does this work with deer too?


Can’t shoot jakes either. But that was another thread. mid you have a jake with a long beard there he’s not the dominant bird. Dominate birds have the hens and that’s it !!!! He is the one knocking the plastic head off the decoy. field dominate birds are your worst nite mare if your a turkey hunter. He is always in the middle of the field. Muzzle loaders.... well not going there.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

So now I think you can have 5 shells in a gun or us it still 3. But the regs are about to be 1 bird a day. Maybe the season. I find this odd !


----------



## six (Jan 24, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> So now I think you can have 5 shells in a gun or us it still 3. But the regs are about to be 1 bird a day. Maybe the season. I find this odd !


Come hunt with some of my crew and it will make perfect sense.


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 24, 2021)

Talking in a circle and dramatizing like women with the bad dad thing, nobody thinks that or suggested that.  But you buy the decoy for the boy years ago, and you're filming over it and have killed several over it through the years?  Decoys are not your cup of tea, but you sit over it at the bottom of the hill.  Not your cup of tea but the thought of the gobbler at 10 yards under fair chase conditions isn't either?  You can't say you want a tough hunt and sit and film over a strutter decoy.  It's like swinging a shaved bat and telling me you swing wood in weekend tournaments...yea right.  And if you guys think killing the dominant tom out of an area doesn't change the breeding, and that a 2yr old just 'steps up' where he was taken from, and the hens sit for them the same way...you're missing so many of the finer points


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## sea trout (Jan 24, 2021)

Thanks!
And we can also reverse that fair chase conditions to this similar group of people! (Not implying you personally MesquiteoHeat because I haven't read and/or am not familiar with your post, so not pointing this to you) but just in general. Many wanna ban one way of turkey hunting because they see it as unfair, however they want to hunt in a fashion that others may seem unfair.
So just to imply where I stand I don't wanna ban anything here.
However the hill you and I are debating over has the flock pitch down and land at the top every morning. To me it would be "not my cup of tea" to shoot him, or another from there. However I don
't want to "ban it/make it illegal".
The mountain comes down in 360 degrees from that top. I wanted to try the strutter decoy to see if he's come to it to put on a show and yes Ida killed him dead. I don't think that should be "banned/illegal".
Once again, JUST TRYING TO PROVE IT DOES NOT WORK MAGIC


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 24, 2021)

About as good a chance of me carrying a decoy, as there is a blow up doll and telling everyone I'm in love with it.


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## ol bob (Jan 24, 2021)

The only way you are going to have more turkeys is to declare war on the Predators, they hunt them 24/7, 365. Where I live in western N.C. we get to hunt 30 days a year, two turkey a year and 90% of the private land is posted, still our turkeys are declining.  
Nothing left but the Predators.


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## Permitchaser (Jan 24, 2021)

When I started Turkey hunting way back there weren’t many decoys and I didn’t use them and killed plenty. Now I’m taking my grandson and they wiggle so if a decoy can take the gobblers attention I’m using them


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## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> About as good a chance of me carrying a decoy, as there is a blow up doll and telling everyone I'm in love with it.


What’s her name. ?


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 24, 2021)

So all the hens in a area are with the dominant Tom. what I see is the flock breaks up. Hens go to areas. Some areas have 2 or 3 hens. Other hens alone. I seen different Toms there and in my area a 3 yo is the dominant one  
I don’t like them getting old and smart. ?


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## NCMTNHunter (Jan 24, 2021)

I really have no feel for how many birds are killed over male decoys.  I personally don’t know anyone that uses them anymore. I know some who tried them a decade ago but no longer uses them. Then you have to figure that a good many of those birds would have been killed over hen decoys just the same.  So from my personal experience I wouldn’t think many are getting killed over male decoys but when you watch tv it’s all you see.


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## redowl (Jan 24, 2021)

Dupree said:


> Banning male decoys would save more “dominant” gobblers early season than any proposed regs, (except for delaying season all together). The ones who are against doing that rely on them to get a kill.


I have never used decoys that much.in till I started now hunting a few years ago.you scare a lot of turkeys cause them to hang up.turkeys start breeding in the middle of February most of ga.southern counties first of February.them decoys are not going to cause a big decrease in gobblers.


----------



## redowl (Jan 24, 2021)

White0ak said:


> Yes, I know there's a parallel thread on the "dnr survey", I am just tired of seeing zero mention of banning MALE decoys.
> 
> If you are an advocate for slowing hunter success rate in order to save male turkeys, which is what every single option in that survey does, why not consider banning decoys that typically require little to no woodsmanship other than "getting him to see it"?
> 
> Thoughts?


White oak decoys are not causing gobblers reduction.what you guys fail to mention wet springs.and people killing over there limits.decoys will scare more gobblers than you think.they need to put the limit back to two gobblers and these so called professional hunters need to quit slaughter them.


----------



## redowl (Jan 24, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> This year I had more hens. More poults and more up coming turkeys. pretty soon I’ll have more then turkey hunting friend that want to join me. ?
> Habitat Habitat Habitat!


We need some good droughts in the spring for a few years.these cool wet springs kill more turkeys than anything.poults have Downey feathers.and when they get drenched it will kill them.when you have gobblers running around on your property you better manage them as you do deer.


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## Blackston (Jan 24, 2021)

Of topic.... kinda ....what if we make people kill a coyote before gettin a tag ...


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## six (Jan 24, 2021)

I bet that would cut the number of turkey hunters by at least 60%.  Maybe go with a coyote or two coons.


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 25, 2021)

six said:


> I bet that would cut the number of turkey hunters by at least 60%.  Maybe go with a coyote or two coons.



That's what I would call a "win win".


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## 3chunter (Jan 25, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> How does it effect the flock ?
> And have u seen this killing before breakfast deal ?


Killing the old bird that early in the season screws the hens up.  Gobbler dies and birds are busted. Hens have to find another suitable mate and then The pecking order gets reestablished which take a day or a week.  Depends.  Well that’s a day or a week gone that the hens aren’t getting bred and aren’t laying.  It matters a lot!  Other than predators, and ag practices, it may be the biggest reason for decline in some areas.  I kill them before breakfast but it usually involves good calling and some luck.  I know plenty of people that couldn’t call a turkey for crap. They don’t know what a cluck is yet they killed a big gobbler opening day with a strutter and a blind.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 25, 2021)

3chunter said:


> Killing the old bird that early in the season screws the hens up.  Gobbler dies and birds are busted. Hens have to find another suitable mate and then The pecking order gets reestablished which take a day or a week.  Depends.  Well that’s a day or a week gone that the hens aren’t getting bred and aren’t laying.  It matters a lot!  Other than predators, and ag practices, it may be the biggest reason for decline in some areas.  I kill them before breakfast but it usually involves good calling and some luck.  I know plenty of people that couldn’t call a turkey for crap. They don’t know what a cluck is yet they killed a big gobbler opening day with a strutter and a blind.


where did u learn all this ?


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## White0ak (Jan 25, 2021)

redowl said:


> White oak decoys are not causing gobblers reduction.what you guys fail to mention wet springs.and people killing over there limits.decoys will scare more gobblers than you think.they need to put the limit back to two gobblers and these so called professional hunters need to quit slaughter them.



You're missing the point Dr Chamberlain and many others involved in the state study have cited as a key observation - *Dominant breeding toms are being killed before they can breed the hens*, period. Could be by predators of any sort, of course non-human predators kill more toms than us hunters (they're the real issue vs all this survey chatter)... but this thread and poll we are debating within is about an alternative choice to the DNR survey that went out this month.

How many dominant/boss toms get killed opening week without a decoy? Now do the inverse assessment....Id like to hear the logic from so many guys that say they or their "turkeyholic" can call the boss tom off a harem of "happy" hens in the first week or two of the season...

Killing over the limit and poaching are already illegal, thus a moot point....I agree, they take a toll. The fines should be steeper and enough to simply make it not worth it. Get those P0S types out of the woods so the conservation minded hunters can work to preserve as best we can...

This thread has been a hoot!


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## White0ak (Jan 25, 2021)

A lot of you guys here should go find last year's podcast with Dr Mike Chamberlain. I'll eat my turkey vest butt cushion if any of you can find someone more accredited to denounce his notion that dominant male gobblers dying too early in the season is one of the largest breeding issues.


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## lampern (Jan 25, 2021)

So why is the DNR not proposing to shift season dates so the season opens later statewide?

Its the only change (other than maybe restrictions on reaping/fanning) that might have an effect.


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## dixiecutter (Jan 25, 2021)

Look at the eletists turkey hunters looking down their nose at the decoy crowd. Go pass some new laws bigshots lol. Never figured I'd see turkey folks getting full of themselves like trophy deer and duck people lol. I hope some middle age apartment dweller comes on my tract and punches out every jake on it. Know why? He'll love those jakes just as much as you boys love winning a contest that normal huntera aint even having with you lol. What the crap ever happened to hunting raising cain and being cool? It's a dumb skill to get all uppity about


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## dixiecutter (Jan 25, 2021)

To reduce hunter success and salvage some toms for the ultra hunters, maybe they can lower the limit? Shorten the season? I think they should outlawn shotguns. Too easy for slob hunter. Only a gay sissy shoots a tom with a shotgun anyway.


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## bluemarlin (Jan 25, 2021)

Dixiecutter, You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!


----------



## sea trout (Jan 25, 2021)

White0ak said:


> A lot of you guys here should go find last year's podcast with Dr Mike Chamberlain.


I heard it last year


----------



## sea trout (Jan 25, 2021)

White0ak said:


> You'r missing the point
> 
> Killing over the limit and poaching are already illegal
> 
> This thread has been a hoot!



Yes I agree with you!


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 25, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Yes I agree with you!


Like a hoot owl hoot. ??


----------



## antharper (Jan 25, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> Like a hoot owl hoot. ??


That should be illegal also !


----------



## 3chunter (Jan 26, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> where did u learn all this ?


My own observations and common sense.  Camera surveys as well.  I know tracts that were turkey Mecca’s.  I hunted them back in the day and I hunted them hard and every year the population would be stable or increase.  A big gobbler would die every now and then but it wouldn’t be until half way through the season.  As soon as strutter decoys come into the picture and other folks started hunting then the population went down.  That was after several boss gobblers were being killed early over the course of 5 or so years.  These tracts were never logged and unchanged habitat wise.  I think the last straw is the male decoy.  Predators are more numerous then ever.  I have seen a field full of turkeys become a desert after insecticide being sprayed.  But killing old birds early is like the icing on the cake for population decrease.


----------



## White0ak (Jan 26, 2021)

dixiecutter said:


> Look at the eletists turkey hunters looking down their nose at the decoy crowd. Go pass some new laws bigshots lol. Never figured I'd see turkey folks getting full of themselves like trophy deer and duck people lol. I hope some middle age apartment dweller comes on my tract and punches out every jake on it. Know why? He'll love those jakes just as much as you boys love winning a contest that normal huntera aint even having with you lol. What the crap ever happened to hunting raising cain and being cool? It's a dumb skill to get all uppity about



What has been posted that struck you as elitist? If you want to take notions of conservation and frame them as elitist personas, can I take your post and frame it as someone who has no clue what they're talking about?

Can you define what "being cool" is in regard to a turkey hunting thread about DNR survey options?

Good luck with the jake genocide on your tract, us "big shots" will continue to manage our property for the optimum turkey conservation while working with state officials and other organizations to preserve the turkey hunting we have taken for granted the last few decades. What have you done to help the turkey population lately?


Good luck to you and your middle age apartment dweller/ buddy / partner and his jake slaughter this season.


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 26, 2021)

3chunter said:


> My own observations and common sense.  Camera surveys as well.  I know tracts that were turkey Mecca’s.  I hunted them back in the day and I hunted them hard and every year the population would be stable or increase.  A big gobbler would die every now and then but it wouldn’t be until half way through the season.  As soon as strutter decoys come into the picture and other folks started hunting then the population went down.  That was after several boss gobblers were being killed early over the course of 5 or so years.  These tracts were never logged and unchanged habitat wise.


I was just wondering. The hens in my area get breed by all sizes of gobblers. and different gobblers. Same hens different days.


----------



## 3chunter (Jan 26, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> I was just wondering. The hens in my area get breed by all sizes of gobblers. and different gobblers. Same hens different days.


Again it’s a time thing too. How long does it take a hen to reestabish and get bred by a different gobbler then the original one that got shot?  Who knows???? At that point during spring a week is a big deal.  A few days is a big deal.   You ever seen a big boss gobbler have 15-20 hens and then a few weeks later he has 10-15 and still have several late season?  I have.  There is a reason for it.  He is the prime breeder.  Take him out March 20 and that causes chaos.  And killing him with woodsman skills and a call is very difficult to do early.  Very very difficult with no avian x decoy.


----------



## Roy S (Jan 26, 2021)

I listened to the Chamberlain podcast too.  Very interesting.  I think he said some old biologist from NY? was the one who stated the most important thing for successful reproduction was letting the "boss tom" breed his hens and start the season late, due to this.  Very interesting


----------



## 3chunter (Jan 26, 2021)

Roy S said:


> I listened to the Chamberlain podcast too.  Very interesting.  I think he said some old biologist from NY? was the one who stated the most important thing for successful reproduction was letting the "boss tom" breed his hens and start the season late, due to this.  Very interesting


Just ban the decoy and stick with the current dates.  That way opportunity is still there and if the boss is killed it was earned.


----------



## goblr77 (Jan 26, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> Banning all use of decoys would cause a major reduction in hunter kills of turkeys because many (maybe most) of the turkey "hunters" would just quit and move on to other hobbies once they actually had to get out and hunt to kill one.
> The other factors would still be there though, but it would be a good start IMO.



I agree with this statement and would love for that to happen.


----------



## six (Jan 26, 2021)

I know it will never happen but Instead of banning certain aids, why not just limit what you can use.   Seems like the division starts with decoys, blinds and some even say calls are unfair.   So out of those three allow the hunter to choose one.   Pick a blind you get no decoy or calls, pick a decoy then no blind or calls, pick a call you get no decoy or blind.   A turkeys defense is his eyes and ears.   Why not limit aids to fooling only one of his defenses but not both.   

I’ve never been considered elite at anything.   Maybe turkey hunting will get me over the hump if it hasn’t already.


----------



## antharper (Jan 26, 2021)

I good woodsman can kill that boss gobbler without anything the first day of the season !


----------



## spencer12 (Jan 26, 2021)

I already carry enough junk in my vest, If I start lugging decoys around I’d need a rucksack to carry everything.


----------



## spencer12 (Jan 26, 2021)

six said:


> I know it will never happen but Instead of banning certain aids, why not just limit what you can use.   Seems like the division starts with decoys, blinds and some even say calls are unfair.   So out of those three allow the hunter to choose one.   Pick a blind you get no decoy or calls, pick a decoy then no blind or calls, pick a call you get no decoy or blind.   A turkeys defense is his eyes and ears.   Why not limit aids to fooling only one of his defenses but not both.
> 
> I’ve never been considered elite at anything.   Maybe turkey hunting will get me over the hump if it hasn’t already.


If I couldn’t call to a wild turkey I couldn’t do it. I’m just as thrilled to hear a turkey answer me than I am to kill one.


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 26, 2021)

3chunter said:


> Again it’s a time thing too. How long does it take a hen to reestabish and get bred by a different gobbler then the original one that got shot?  Who knows???? At that point during spring a week is a big deal.  A few days is a big deal.   You ever seen a big boss gobbler have 15-20 hens and then a few weeks later he has 10-15 and still have several late season?  I have.  There is a reason for it.  He is the prime breeder.  Take him out March 20 and that causes chaos.  And killing him with woodsman skills and a call is very difficult to do early.  Very very difficult with no avian x decoy.


I think your thinking to much into it. if she don’t get bred it’s because no gobbler is there at all. SWGA they start breeding late February. Early March. Season is mid March toward the end. but what do I know.


----------



## sea trout (Jan 26, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> . but what do I know.



Do you really want us to answer that.....?


----------



## six (Jan 26, 2021)

He don’t know.


----------



## jNick (Jan 26, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> I think your thinking to much into it. if she don’t get bred it’s because no gobbler is there at all. SWGA they start breeding late February. Early March. Season is mid March toward the end. but what do I know.



Weather the same temp year after year up your way in the early spring? 

I love the “well, my Walmart strutter scared them away” argument. ?


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 26, 2021)

jNick said:


> Weather the same temp year after year up your way in the early spring?
> 
> I love the “well, my Walmart strutter scared them away” argument. ?


A lot of times. I watch them strut in the fields & dance. It’s every year. U know with this Global warming. It’s got to start happening earlier ?


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 27, 2021)

We got a new place to hunt. Plenty of dominant turkeys. the heard needs thinning. What’s the best Tom decoy to get ?


----------



## hold em hook (Jan 27, 2021)

Great read.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 27, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> We got a new place to hunt. Plenty of dominant turkeys. the heard needs thinning. What’s the best Tom decoy to get ?



If you got a herd that needs thinning, the best method for a reduction in force is to invite me and @The mtn man to take care of business.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 27, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> If you got a herd that needs thinning, the best method for a reduction in force is to invite me and @The mtn man to take care of business.


Gather up some deks & ground blinds & grab a kid ? and we will get a weekend head start. ?


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 27, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> Gather up some deks & ground blinds & grab a kid ? and we will get a weekend head start. ?


Man, I got a truck, 2 blinds, 2 gobbler decoys, 3 kids, and a Stevens .410 that's made for shooting TSS!


----------



## White0ak (Jan 27, 2021)

hold em hook said:


> Great read.



Made this post just for you! Glad you enjoyed it!


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## sea trout (Jan 27, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> We got a new place to hunt. Plenty of dominant turkeys. the heard needs thinning. What’s the best Tom decoy to get ?



Not the one from walmart, remember they scare the turkeys away story!

This has been the most educational thread. Now 10 times more the amount of ladies and gents will have a male decoy on the spring hunt all trying to get that boss tom.
I didn't know the male decoy killed the boss tom opening day. Now I do. And so does so many others!


----------



## kmckinnie (Jan 27, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Not the one from walmart, remember they scare the turkeys away story!
> 
> This has been the most educational thread. Now 10 times more the amount of ladies and gents will have a male decoy on the spring hunt all trying to get that boss tom.
> I didn't know the male decoy killed the boss tom opening day. Now I do. And so does so many others!


Then the hens don’t breed and sit eggs.


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## antharper (Jan 27, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Not the one from walmart, remember they scare the turkeys away story!
> 
> This has been the most educational thread. Now 10 times more the amount of ladies and gents will have a male decoy on the spring hunt all trying to get that boss tom.
> I didn't know the male decoy killed the boss tom opening day. Now I do. And so does so many others!


I got one that works when u want to borrow it , but you have to shoot him before he jumps on it . No joke... I payed $400 for it


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## kmckinnie (Jan 28, 2021)

antharper said:


> I got one that works when u want to borrow it , but you have to shoot him before he jumps on it . No joke... I payed $400 for it View attachment 1062971


That is one short legged Tom.


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## bfriendly (Jan 28, 2021)

I guess I’m lucky enough to hunt public land and I’ve had no problems seeing turkeys.......lots of them! Even called in a few. Put out a deke a few times, not really sure if it helped or not. I saw them with or without them. I still never killed a turkey. This year I do plan to bring a ground blind, a tail fan and a deke to a few of my long sits spots. 
Now if that’s gonna keep me out of the competition this year I’ll leave everything at home cept my gun. Can I use a call or is that UNfair? I don’t want to break the rules, I just want to play


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## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2021)

Hmm so there no Turkeys left in GEORGIA per the post on this forum,Male decoys kill boss gobblers opening day and hens don't get to bred WOW,I've hunted turkeys a LONG time (50+ year's) never had  a decoy or a blind and do not cry if I do not harvest a gobbler every day I hunt,The  Tradition of turkey hunting has been lost,For me I love the  Challenge of the chase and if I never shoot a gobbler again I happy just to go try. With all the modern hunting EQUIPMENT TSS, 3 1/2 SHELLS, Fancy calls,Decoys the turkeys don't stand a chance to breed hens before they are killed (WRONG). Well darn the luck... Hunt how you want to hunt and enjoy the gift that works for you stop the crying and take a kid hunting for they (Kids) is the  Future of hunting in AMERICA.


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 28, 2021)

A man named Ken Morgan probably had more observations of the wild turkey than most all the men on this thread combined.  If you find it hard to believe what we're saying you should read the section on the 'Preferred Male' from his book One Man Game.  Over 200 flocks and he never saw hens breed with more than one gobbler, only the one.  Chamberlain doesn't have a fraction of the woods time as KM and he knows this to be true and has said as much. Y'all be sure to pick up some Tylenol too, staring at that decoy out of the blind  hole is sure to bring a headache.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 28, 2021)

Well I’ve seen the 3 yo looking bird with the flock and looked like he ran off the older birds. Guess this Boss don’t have to be the biggest or the oldest. Maybe the meanest. 
Every year there’s a new boss gobbler hatched !
Unless varmits get the nest. Maybe having a variety of habit helps. Open fields open woods and then thick briar woods to hide a nest in. 
It don’t take much in numbers of turkeys to get a flock going and it seems it don’t take much to decrease the numbers in a area quickly. 
I guess be Stewart’s of the land and hope for the best. 
I do believe some here are putting in personal preference to this and that’s great. This was American with free speech til recently. I have been blessed with a area to hunt and it’s a lot of hard work to keep it going. I guess I didn’t mind because it’s what I love to do. 
Y’all hunt safe. Have fun !


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## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> A man named Ken Morgan probably had more observations of the wild turkey than most all the men on this thread combined.  If you find it hard to believe what we're saying you should read the section on the 'Preferred Male' from his book One Man Game.  Over 200 flocks and he never saw hens breed with more than one gobbler, only the one.  Chamberlain doesn't have a fraction of the woods time as KM and he knows this to be true and has said as much. Y'all be sure to pick up some Tylenol too, staring at that decoy out of the blind  hole is sure to bring a headache.


I seen with my eyes hens mate with More than 1 gobbler on our  Properties and not just in the spring but in the dead of winter, Then seen gobblers breed hens that a harvested Gobbler (i shot a week before) breed her and more after he was gone. Strange what happens in mother nature's world of the woods. I'll be hunting as much as I can with hopes of getting 1 close enough to shoot,as for as a camera I have plenty of pictures of turkeys and a picture doesn't taste like a deep fried bird that I had fun chasing . To each their own but I will hunt them every chance I get till they stop the hunting in AMERICA. That just my opinion


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## C.Killmaster (Jan 28, 2021)

From what the turkey folks tell me we have no data on the impacts of decoys on turkey harvest. It doesn't appear to have a significant impact since turkey harvest has been steadily declining. The effectiveness may affect how quickly you can kill a bird, but it may not necessarily cause more birds to get killed.


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## Dbender (Jan 28, 2021)

Very few successful veteran hunters use decoys. They aren't worth the hassle of carrying around 8 out of 10 times. If you can get a bird to commit from a distance, unless you just can't keep.your mouth shut, that bird is toast decoy or not.


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## buckpasser (Jan 28, 2021)

White0ak said:


> A lot of you guys here should go find last year's podcast with Dr Mike Chamberlain. I'll eat my turkey vest butt cushion if any of you can find someone more accredited to denounce his notion that dominant male gobblers dying too early in the season is one of the largest breeding issues.



I’ll not ask you to eat your cushion just yet, but I will say that he has a theory, a “notion”, and a notion only at this point. There are big public areas that test changes can be made first. From what I understand they have been tested and there is yet no change.  I consider his theory unproven.  I consider it a mistake not unlike “the green movement” to heavily invest in unproven and controversial theories.


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## Smallwood (Jan 28, 2021)

Ban calls while your at it.


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## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> From what the turkey folks tell me we have no data on the impacts of decoys on turkey harvest. It doesn't appear to have a significant impact since turkey harvest has been steadily declining. The effectiveness may effect how quickly you can kill a bird, but it may not necessarily cause more birds to get killed.


Turkey population of turkeys in Southern Georgia is not DECLINING we are seeing more turkeys than in year's past, That's why the turkey biologists need 2-4 year's to find out the DECLINE of turkeys in areas of the state that are ,The DNR TRAPED /NETTED gobblers on every WMA in 100 mile of Radius of where i live 25 years ago and moved them to parts of the state for restocking and we still have plenty of turkeys on the WMA in South Georgia,But folks sure harvested a LOT of gobblers in 2020 here in GEORGIA  (Imagine that). + 3000 more,Decoys  or COVID Hmmm


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## C.Killmaster (Jan 28, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’ll not ask you to eat your cushion just yet, but I will say that he has a theory, a “notion”, and a notion only at this point. There are big public areas that test changes can be made first. From what I understand they have been tested and there is yet no change.  I consider his theory unproven.  I consider it a mistake not unlike “the green movement” to heavily invest in unproven and controversial theories.



It's the latest and best available science we have right now to address a significant issue.  Even as big as Cedar Creek is, most of those birds have overlapping home ranges with adjacent private lands that didn't have a delayed start.  You would have to take whole counties to effectively test a delayed opener, but that probably wouldn't sit well with the hunters in the test counties.  If this theory is correct and it's negatively impacting the population how much additional damage should we keep doing while testing the theory on smaller areas?  None of the proposed alternatives will hurt the population, they will only be neutral or help.

Let me draw a parallel to deer since that's more up my alley.  We had to reduce doe harvest several years back to prevent further declines in the population.  We knew that some doe opportunity had to be reduced to address the problem, but it's hard to know what doe days to limit to get the desired effect (mind you we had no control over the bag limit).  Should we have spent several more years testing what days were best on WMAs or certain counties while the population continued to decline?  We made a change and monitored the result, buck-only December 1-24.  No reduction in doe harvest after 1 regulation cycle, so we had to move the days to peak times and then achieved the result that was needed.


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## sea trout (Jan 28, 2021)

antharper said:


> I got one that works when u want to borrow it , but you have to shoot him before he jumps on it . No joke... I payed $400 for it View attachment 1062971


Now that's just bragging ant...... Just plain bragging!!!!!


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## White0ak (Jan 28, 2021)

Smallwood said:


> Ban calls while your at it.



You're *


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## sea trout (Jan 28, 2021)

Have y'all ever heard that sayin that "10 percent of the turkey hunters kill 90 percent of the years gobblers"????
I've heard and read that before. I'm not a fact statistic checker so I don't know the truth behind that statement.
But if that statement is true.... wouldn't the 10 percent be about the amount of people on here????? Who most say they don't use decoys.
I guess I'm still beating a dead horse here and I know the topic want's to be how the decoy kills the flock boss breeder. But I'm still wanting to know who are killing all these boss toms with decoys??? Not counting turkey tv hunts.


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## bfriendly (Jan 28, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> Turkey population of turkeys in Southern Georgia is not DECLINING we are seeing more turkeys than in year's past, That's why the turkey biologists need 2-4 year's to find out the DECLINE of turkeys in areas of the state that are ,The DNR TRAPED /NETTED gobblers on every WMA in 100 mile of Radius of where i live 25 years ago and moved them to parts of the state for restocking and we still have plenty of turkeys on the WMA in South Georgia,But folks sure harvested a LOT of gobblers in 2020 here in GEORGIA  (Imagine that). + 3000 more,Decoys  or COVID Hmmm


I think you’re right, there are lots of birds. And he is saying turkey HARVEST has been steadily declining. My only impact to them birds was educating dumb birds and letting the smart ones show off their skills.


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## buckpasser (Jan 28, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> It's the latest and best available science we have right now to address a significant issue.  Even as big as Cedar Creek is, most of those birds have overlapping home ranges with adjacent private lands that didn't have a delayed start.  You would have to take whole counties to effectively test a delayed opener, but that probably wouldn't sit well with the hunters in the test counties.  If this theory is correct and it's negatively impacting the population how much additional damage should we keep doing while testing the theory on smaller areas?  None of the proposed alternatives will hurt the population, they will only be neutral or help.
> 
> Let me draw a parallel to deer since that's more up my alley.  We had to reduce doe harvest several years back to prevent further declines in the population.  We knew that some doe opportunity had to be reduced to address the problem, but it's hard to know what doe days to limit to get the desired effect (mind you we had no control over the bag limit).  Should we have spent several more years testing what days were best on WMAs or certain counties while the population continued to decline?  We made a change and monitored the result, buck-only December 1-24.  No reduction in doe harvest after 1 regulation cycle, so we had to move the days to peak times and then achieved the result that was needed.



I’m serious when I say that I wouldn’t be foolish enough to argue with you, but it just seems like apples to oranges on this topic.  IMHO turkeys are much more at the mercy of weather and disease than deer. Some states have had spring then fall seasons for decades killing hens and somehow sustaining healthy populations.  We’ve had pretty obvious indications on what could be wrong with deer and I applaud the states efforts in addressing it.  I predict that there are changes made for turkey season, then we see a rebound in population (that would have happened anyway), then later a decline in population (that would have happened anyway) and so on.  I think I’ve tried to be open minded in educating myself on this topic (maybe not enough) and as of now, I don’t buy in.


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## C.Killmaster (Jan 28, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’m serious when I say that I wouldn’t be foolish enough to argue with you, but it just seems like apples to oranges on this topic.  IMHO turkeys are much more at the mercy of weather and disease than deer. Some states have had spring then fall seasons for decades killing hens and somehow sustaining healthy populations.  We’ve had pretty obvious indications on what could be wrong with deer and I applaud the states efforts in addressing it.  I predict that there are changes made for turkey season, then we see a rebound in population (that would have happened anyway), then later a decline in population (that would have happened anyway) and so on.  I think I’ve tried to be open minded in educating myself on this topic (maybe not enough) and as of now, I don’t buy in.



You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I have been impressed at the lengths you've taken to educate yourself.

I think what sold it for me was the long nesting period being an indicator that early hunting is disruptive to breeding.  If most hens were bred in a shorter window and go on the nest at roughly the same time, then predation is less of an issue than when nesting is a lot more spread out over the season.  Kinda like the idea of predator swamping in African plains game.  As has been stated before though, timing of hunting is not the only issue but it's the one we have some control over.


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## Permitchaser (Jan 28, 2021)

So when our season starts in late March most gobblers I encounter have hens and don't get lonely till later.


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## Permitchaser (Jan 28, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> We got a new place to hunt. Plenty of dominant turkeys. the heard needs thinning. What’s the best Tom decoy to get ?


Primos strutting Tom


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## Nicodemus (Jan 28, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Have y'all ever heard that sayin that "10 percent of the turkey hunters kill 90 percent of the years gobblers"????
> I've heard and read that before. I'm not a fact statistic checker so I don't know the truth behind that statement.
> But if that statement is true.... wouldn't the 10 percent be about the amount of people on here????? Who most say they don't use decoys.
> I guess I'm still beating a dead horse here and I know the topic want's to be how the decoy kills the flock boss breeder. But I'm still wanting to know who are killing all these boss toms with decoys??? Not counting turkey tv hunts.




Can`t help you there. I don`t know, haven`t even thought about it. I`ve been turkey hunting a real long time, and I`ve never even thought about using a decoy. Doesn`t bother me if folks use em or not. I only pay attention to how I hunt. The old way. And I carry a minimum of equipment. Just what I need.


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## Resica (Jan 28, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’m serious when I say that I wouldn’t be foolish enough to argue with you, but it just seems like apples to oranges on this topic.  IMHO turkeys are much more at the mercy of weather and disease than deer. Some states have had spring then fall seasons for decades killing hens and somehow sustaining healthy populations.  We’ve had pretty obvious indications on what could be wrong with deer and I applaud the states efforts in addressing it.  I predict that there are changes made for turkey season, then we see a rebound in population (that would have happened anyway), then later a decline in population (that would have happened anyway) and so on.  I think I’ve tried to be open minded in educating myself on this topic (maybe not enough) and as of now, I don’t buy in.


They have reduced fall turkey hunting season up here (Pa.) in the last several years and are now banning rifles for fall hunting. There is an issue up here too and it isn't allowing rifles in the fall.


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## buckpasser (Jan 28, 2021)

Resica said:


> They have reduced fall turkey hunting season up here (Pa.) in the last several years and are now banning rifles for fall hunting. There is an issue up here too and it isn't allowing rifles in the fall.



My kid BIL is just learning to hunt in PA, so I hope the best for the flock there. BTW, I don’t mean to say that there isn’t a lower population in some or even most places, just that there have been so many years with seasons “as is” with ups and downs scattered in.


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## sea trout (Jan 28, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Can`t help you there. I don`t know, haven`t even thought about it. I`ve been turkey hunting a real long time, and I`ve never even thought about using a decoy. Doesn`t bother me if folks use em or not. I only pay attention to how I hunt. The old way. And I carry a minimum of equipment. Just what I need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fantastic pic nic!
But it raises questions, forgive me if I seem elementary but what is the squishy thing  with circular leather?
A seat cushion? A canteen? You and the pioneer ways are always interestin!


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## kmckinnie (Jan 29, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Fantastic pic nic!
> But it raises questions, forgive me if I seem elementary but what is the squishy thing  with circular leather?
> A seat cushion? A canteen? You and the pioneer ways are always interestin!


Got flint and a piece of steel to start a fire ? maybe a compass ? at be a mouth call. Maybe fishing line and a hook. we will soon fine out. ?


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 29, 2021)

Possibles pouch. Too small for a strutter decoy. Nic is a hunter


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 29, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> None of the proposed alternatives will hurt the population, they will only be neutral or help.



Charlie, While I agree with this part of your statement, I believe many of us are concerned that once our early hunting is gone it will not EVER be returned, even if it doesn't produce the results hoped for.  

Turkey hunting is a tradition every bit as much as is deer hunting and GA has that traditional starting date pretty well engrained into us turkey hunters.

Since most seem to agree that the state is very different north, middle, and south and you stated that an area the size of Cedar Creek isn't big enough to do an adequate study on (although if that is the biological truth then why was it done there in the first place?) then why is the state not attempting to do it on an entire region that has been most impacted by the decline before doing it to all of us?


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## C.Killmaster (Jan 29, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> Charlie, While I agree with this part of your statement, I believe many of us are concerned that once our early hunting is gone it will not EVER be returned, even if it doesn't produce the results hoped for.
> 
> Turkey hunting is a tradition every bit as much as is deer hunting and GA has that traditional starting date pretty well engrained into us turkey hunters.
> 
> Since most seem to agree that the state is very different north, middle, and south and you stated that an area the size of Cedar Creek isn't big enough to do an adequate study on (although if that is the biological truth then why was it done there in the first place?) then why is the state not attempting to do it on an entire region that has been most impacted by the decline before doing it to all of us?



I understand the concern, but I think DNR has shown that it strives to provide as much hunting opportunity as biologically feasible.  The length of deer season is a testament to that.

Regarding the Cedar Creek study, a lot was learned from that project about what they now believe is going on.  In other words, there was no way to know that Cedar Creek wouldn't be big enough prior to the study.  

As far as zoning, I'm honestly not sure so I'll have to talk to the turkey folks to get their take on it.


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## gobble79 (Jan 29, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’m serious when I say that I wouldn’t be foolish enough to argue with you, but it just seems like apples to oranges on this topic.  IMHO turkeys are much more at the mercy of weather and disease than deer. Some states have had spring then fall seasons for decades killing hens and somehow sustaining healthy populations.  We’ve had pretty obvious indications on what could be wrong with deer and I applaud the states efforts in addressing it.  I predict that there are changes made for turkey season, then we see a rebound in population (that would have happened anyway), then later a decline in population (that would have happened anyway) and so on.  I think I’ve tried to be open min
> 
> I have witnessed the decline, but agree there has been a significant rebound on our properties (multiple counties)in the last 3 years. Can not speak of public land because have not been there in a few years. I applaud and support the  effort to a degree, but the legal hunters Are not the problem with the decline. I do believe the proposed changes Will save some gobblers in some areas but will not change anything on our properties. I do believe male decoys has allowed some hunters at times to kill gobblers that would not otherwise but it works both ways.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 29, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Fantastic pic nic!
> But it raises questions, forgive me if I seem elementary but what is the squishy thing  with circular leather?
> A seat cushion? A canteen? You and the pioneer ways are always interestin!




It`s a small leather possibles bag made by an old friend of mine in the Buckskinner Trade. It`s based on the Scottish Sporan, only with a shoulder strap. If I`m hunting anything but birds, it`s on my shoulder. It always has at least 2 means of making fire, including a very good flint & steel, cordage, a small scratch box and mouth call, an antler predator call, compass, rolled up wire bore rod, lens cloth, blood clotter, and a tiny bottle of bug dope. In deer season, it has extra 270 bullets, and in turkey season they are swapped out for shotgun shells.

It hangs on the hatrack by the front door. Whenever the urge to hunt hits, I simply grab it, rifle, hat, and walk out the door.


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## WishboneW (Jan 29, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> About as good a chance of me carrying a decoy, as there is a blow up doll and telling everyone I'm in love with it.[/QUOTE.
> Walmart used to sell a blow up turkey decoy
> 
> Unfortunately buckshot worked as well on it as the jake that mounted it ?


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## Nicodemus (Jan 29, 2021)

sea trout said:


> Fantastic pic nic!
> But it raises questions, forgive me if I seem elementary but what is the squishy thing  with circular leather?
> A seat cushion? A canteen? You and the pioneer ways are always interestin!




Thank you kindly.   

That is the little gobbler I killed in the Flint River swamp in Dougherty County this past May. Beard was 10 inches, spurs were curved, needle sharp and one inch long, fat as a butterball and weighed 16 pounds. He looks like the birds we killed here in South Georgia back in the `60s. I`m more proud of him than I am any "eastern" I`ve ever killed. Looks identical to the Osceolas I killed in Florida too.


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## 3chunter (Jan 31, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> I think your thinking to much into it. if she don’t get bred it’s because no gobbler is there at all. SWGA they start breeding late February. Early March. Season is mid March toward the end. but what do I know.


I have 26 seasons of experience. And I don’t think I am wrong.  The majority of hens are bred last week of March and first few weeks of April in the lowcountry of sc.  poults tell the story and the season starts 3/22 now.  I was not in favor of moving the date back from 3/15  a few years back.  But I know a few hunters that have never killed a bird without a strutter decoy.   A group of guys I ran into last year told me they would quit without decoys.  I asked one of them what’s the biggest spurs he has killed and he said he had killed 3 gobblers 3 years in a row opening week with decoys.   The three he killed all had big spurs.  He showed me a pic of one and it had 1 3/8 hooks.  He said that was the smallest one.  He happened to be messing around on his mouth call and he sounded like a sick half dead turkey.  These boys couldn’t have called a turkey if it was born on a farm and locked in a barn.    Most don’t have woodsman skills to sneak up on 20 birds early season in the southeast to be able to kill an opening week long spurred turkey.


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## Dbender (Jan 31, 2021)

A bunch of birds get killed early by some sorry calling every year because the hens just aren't ready yet. Some years, I'm in that ×group. 
Ever call in a jake? 
Ever have a sneaky bird come in silent? 
Their intentions are exactly the same as a dominant bird. 
Just because you don't hear them gobbling doesn't mean they aren't breeding hens. If 
l'm bragging about killing long spurred turkeys with my rc.controlled strutter decoy, I'd show you my best bird, not one of my smaller spurred birds. I'd be willing to bet a lot of the strutter/decoy success is due to the placement of said decoys. Proximity to corn, scratch, or wheat tends to increase their effectiveness.


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## JMB (Feb 18, 2021)

While there is no magic bullet, the scientists (not armchair speculators or self-imagined experts in the field) suggest dominant male harvest early in the season has a large impact on poult  recruitment. Dominant male harvest is typically achieved through strutter decoys early. Decoy use, over harvest, predation (avian, folks), possible localized disease, and loss of habitat diversification/overall habitat are all contributing factors. 

For those saying you don’t want any regulation changes because it will impact YOUR HUNTING SEASON, you are not turkey hunters/conservationists, you are opportunists seeking entertainment. I’ve hunted turkeys for over 3 decades across the US. My home is in Georgia. The amount of nonsensical arguments and pontification by neophytes who spend maybe 10 days in the spring woods walking from a truck to a ground blind or food plot is astonishing. Rebuking science in lieu of emotional argument is ridiculous and irresponsible to the resource. Bottom line is the turkey population is down significantly across the south (I don’t care if your hunting club is over run with turkeys or if you killed your limit faster last year than ever before or you’re hearing more gobbles than you ever have...its not consistent across the region) and something must be done to stabilize then grow the resource. If you’re not on board with critical thinking and science, stop using the resource as you are contributing ZERO to its success in perpetuity. 

-James


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## Gut_Pile (Feb 18, 2021)

This x1000 ^^^^


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## Turkeytider (Feb 18, 2021)

JMB said:


> While there is no magic bullet, the scientists (not armchair speculators or self-imagined experts in the field) suggest dominant male harvest early in the season has a large impact on poult  recruitment. Dominant male harvest is typically achieved through strutter decoys early. Decoy use, over harvest, predation (avian, folks), possible localized disease, and loss of habitat diversification/overall habitat are all contributing factors.
> 
> For those saying you don’t want any regulation changes because it will impact YOUR HUNTING SEASON, you are not turkey hunters/conservationists, you are opportunists seeking entertainment. I’ve hunted turkeys for over 3 decades across the US. My home is in Georgia. The amount of nonsensical arguments and pontification by neophytes who spend maybe 10 days in the spring woods walking from a truck to a ground blind or food plot is astonishing. Rebuking science in lieu of emotional argument is ridiculous and irresponsible to the resource. Bottom line is the turkey population is down significantly across the south (I don’t care if your hunting club is over run with turkeys or if you killed your limit faster last year than ever before or you’re hearing more gobbles than you ever have...its not consistent across the region) and something must be done to stabilize then grow the resource. If you’re not on board with critical thinking and science, stop using the resource as you are contributing ZERO to its success in perpetuity.
> 
> -James



James, I`m sure you`re about to get toasted by the " Status Quoers ". That group is certainly not confined to " neophytes " , but includes folks who have hunted turkeys for decades, are convicted in the belief that the " science " is wrong headed and proffered by people who can`t possibly know anything close to what they do about wild turkey population biology. Their minds are closed to anything that doesn`t fit their personal view of reality, and probably always will be. I do find myself wondering to what extent their views are impacted by ANYTHING that may serve to inconvenience them in the slightest when it comes to their own personal obsessions ( in this case, turkey hunting ).


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## DRBugman85 (Feb 18, 2021)

JMB said:


> While there is no magic bullet, the scientists (not armchair speculators or self-imagined experts in the field) suggest dominant male harvest early in the season has a large impact on poult  recruitment. Dominant male harvest is typically achieved through strutter decoys early. Decoy use, over harvest, predation (avian, folks), possible localized disease, and loss of habitat diversification/overall habitat are all contributing factors.
> 
> For those saying you don’t want any regulation changes because it will impact YOUR HUNTING SEASON, you are not turkey hunters/conservationists, you are opportunists seeking entertainment. I’ve hunted turkeys for over 3 decades across the US. My home is in Georgia. The amount of nonsensical arguments and pontification by neophytes who spend maybe 10 days in the spring woods walking from a truck to a ground blind or food plot is astonishing. Rebuking science in lieu of emotional argument is ridiculous and irresponsible to the resource. Bottom line is the turkey population is down significantly across the south (I don’t care if your hunting club is over run with turkeys or if you killed your limit faster last year than ever before or you’re hearing more gobbles than you ever have...its not consistent across the region) and something must be done to stabilize then grow the resource. If you’re not on board with critical thinking and science, stop using the resource as you are contributing ZERO to its success in perpetuity.
> 
> -James





Turkeytider said:


> James, I`m sure you`re about to get toasted by the " Status Quoers ". That group is certainly not confined to " neophytes " , but includes folks who have hunted turkeys for decades, are convicted in the belief that the " science " is wrong headed and proffered by people who can`t possibly know anything close to what they do about wild turkey population biology. Their minds are closed to anything that doesn`t fit their personal view of reality, and probably always will be. I do find myself wondering to what extent their views are impacted by ANYTHING that may serve to inconvenience them in the slightest when it comes to their own personal obsessions ( in this case, turkey hunting ).


So STOP HUNTING TURKEY and do YOUR part to help the population of turkeys in GEORGIA, we don't see the decline of Turkeys here in GODS country, We take care of our land and game so we have game to hunt,Why penalize us who have worked and paid our money out for what we worked to have  the turkeys on our land.Leave the Limits and season dates alone IMO it want make a difference in the long run,I've seen the population come and go  in the past 50+ year's and once its taken away its hard to get it back.


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## Turkeytider (Feb 18, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> So STOP HUNTING TURKEY and do YOUR part to help the population of turkeys in GEORGIA, we don't see the decline of Turkeys here in GODS country, We take care of our land and game so we have game to hunt,Why penalize us who have worked and paid our money out for what we worked to have  the turkeys on our land.Leave the Limits and season dates alone IMO it want make a difference in the long run,I've seen the population come and go  in the past 50+ year's and once its taken away its hard to get it back.



There`s really no sense in debating this.


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## kmckinnie (Feb 18, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> There`s really no sense in debating this.


Why did u just quote this post.


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## antharper (Feb 18, 2021)

Great info in here , thanks !


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## kmckinnie (Feb 18, 2021)

.


antharper said:


> Great info in here , thanks !


not really it’s a bashing thread for a legal method of hunting. I let the debate go on for awhile. Never really had much use for one. Never really knocked anyone for using it. 
this is from the rules of GON. 

Bashing of legal kills and catches

The bashing of legal kills, whether it be deer, any other big or small game, will not be tolerated. A trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. Posts that harass or belittle anyone and the animal, fish, or bird, and also the legal method of any game taken will be removed and the member will be dealt with accordingly. If you can`t say something nice, it`s best to be silent and move on. This rule will be strictly enforced.

It’s a little info
Kmac


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## kmckinnie (Feb 18, 2021)

The thread didn’t start out this way. It was more for the breeding. Charlie his self addressed this issues. His input is posted. said the dominant gobbler may get killed sooner but the hens will get breed. Plain and simple. Lots of other post went south. 
Anyway. as always good luck this year. Be safe !


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