# Beware of counterfeit broadheads!



## FAASupport (May 31, 2016)

If any of you purchase broadheads online through Amazon.com, Ebay.com or Alibaba.com please be sure that the seller is an legitimate, reputable dealer and that you are purchasing the actual licensed product. There are several sellers who are offering counterfeit Flying Arrow Archery, Rage, G5, Muzzy, RamCat, Bloodsport, Dirtnap, etc. broadheads at incredibly low prices. PLEASE NOTE THAT THEY ARE FAKE. 

These counterfeit heads cause problems for everyone who is a legitimate manufacturer or dealer because they are undercutting everyone's prices. The fake heads WILL NOT PERFORM like the real heads do, are less durable and can usually be identified because they come in colors that the real manufacturers don't produce.

Since Amazon, Ebay and Alibaba are technically brokerage houses, they can't/won't do anything to control what is sold through the sites or who is doing the selling.

Let's all band together to help keep our economy and the archery industry rolling! PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU, ONLY PURCHASE BROADHEADS FROM YOUR LOCAL DEALER, CHAIN RETAILER OR DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER.


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## BlackEagle (May 31, 2016)

FAASupport said:


> The fake heads WILL NOT PERFORM like the real heads do, are less durable



Are you sure?


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## turkeyhunter835 (May 31, 2016)

BlackEagle said:


> Are you sure?



I had a buddy that bought some of the nock off rages off ebay. I can say he took a doe with it and it nocked a hole in her just like a rage. Blades were all bent up, but that happens with all of them at some point.


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## BowChilling (May 31, 2016)

This is a good informative post. I don't care if they perform as good as the originals. The fact is some worthless counterfeiter is packaging and selling these as originals should make you all mad. If saving $7 on a pack of broadheads means more to you than supporting American companies over some Asian company stealing their design then shame on you!


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## fountain (May 31, 2016)

I'm pretty sure they will perform corrrect.  I too advantage of this and purchased a few dozen of the rage hypodermic.   I've never likedone any rage head, but the hypodermic did look the best of the bunch and I decided to try some.  They shoot very well and seem to kill just fine as well.  The debate will rage on ( pun intended ) forever whether they are the same or not..but I say they are and other sources claim to back that up as well.  
Hard deal to pass up at $24/dozen.  

I'm not a purist i don't guess.  I don't care that they are made in china.truth be known..they are all likely made in China and packaged by the American companies.  I took advantage and spent MY money on what seemed to be a deal

I've wasted $24 on FAR WORSE things in my life, so the gamble on these heads wasn't a hard decision

They are the exact, same head..no questions about it.  For more information on the topic, head over to archery talk and read the reviews.  It became quite the topic there as well


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## fountain (May 31, 2016)

BowChilling said:


> This is a good informative post. I don't care if they perform as good as the originals. The fact is some worthless counterfeiter is packaging and selling these as originals should make you all mad. If saving $7 on a pack of broadheads means more to you than supporting American companies over some Asian company stealing their design then shame on you!




Pretty sure I saved more than $7.  The rage were $24/dozen where most are $42/3.  That come to $2/each


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## Kris87 (May 31, 2016)

All I'm gonna say is its a global economy we live in.  If a company chooses to have their products made in China for larger profit margins, then they can expect to deal with the consequences.  I know the inside story of the Rages made there and it's sad.  If you wanna buy American, I suggest you find you a head that's not offered on eBay.  The Bi-polar, Magnus, and Grim Reaper are some you won't see copied.  If you find some that are fake, then chances are the "Real" ones you pay for here are really nothing more than the counterfeit ones with some fancy packaging.  Buyer beware.


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## Mudfeather (Jun 1, 2016)

I have read that the reason they get copied is because they have them produced over there and there is nothing to stop them from being copied in other countries..

It has been said that the companies that dont send them over there to be made are not copied because our laws stop it or at least deter it.

If you lay down with dogs...dont gripe at me about having flees..


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## Jake Allen (Jun 1, 2016)

That darn Free Market can be a bear sometimes.


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## BlackEagle (Jun 1, 2016)

How hard is it to tell the difference? Here is an example photo of a rage I bought off the internet. I shot a doe previously with this same broadhead without any issues so I'm assuming it's legit? After shooting the coyote there was a tiny chip in the blade but I can probably re-sharpen and shoot again.


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## satchmo (Jun 2, 2016)

They are not really counterfeits at all, they are rejects. I know of two brands mentioned that are manufacture in China no contest. One for sure that has been tuned down due to the tolerances not being perfect so they are rejected. So rather than being stuck with 10000 Broadheads that were turned down, they just sell them. This can be stopped by the manufacture, but it is costly to do so. This is not a guess.


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## fountain (Jun 2, 2016)

This is posted on about every forum I'm a member of!  Missed GN though &#55357;&#56832;


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## Etoncathunter (Jun 4, 2016)

satchmo said:


> They are not really counterfeits at all, they are rejects. I know of two brands mentioned that are manufacture in China no contest. One for sure that has been tuned down due to the tolerances not being perfect so they are rejected. So rather than being stuck with 10000 Broadheads that were turned down, they just sell them. This can be stopped by the manufacture, but it is costly to do so. This is not a guess.



So basically you're saying they are "seconds"? Kinda like going the to scratch and dent/ seconds  outlet stores rather than going to the retail store?


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## satchmo (Jun 4, 2016)

*Sort of*



Etoncathunter said:


> So basically you're saying they are "seconds"? Kinda like going the to scratch and dent/ seconds  outlet stores rather than going to the retail store?



My biggest concern ever would be with an expandable and the tolerances being off and not opening. But anything else could be rejected for many reasons.


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## Watasha (Jun 7, 2016)

I've shot cheap eBay rages for several years with absolutely no problems. I don't feel like buying a useable product form a drastically reduced price makes me any less American.


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## Designasaurus (Jun 8, 2016)

Just my 2 cents but my background is in product design/development.  My output is typically IP (appearance/brand identity/usability etc.) for the companies I do work for.  I would never knowingly purchase counterfeit products as I believe it is unethical to support theft of IP etc.. Same issue as copying software, music etc.. - a lot of people do it but that doesn't make it right.  I also try to avoid anything made in China because of their general total lack of regard for patent/copyright law etc..


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## The Fever (Jun 17, 2016)

https://www.amazon.com/MoKasi®-Arch...&sr=1-26-spons&keywords=rage+broadheads&psc=1

Anyone got these? They have killer reviews? Can not beat that price!


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## goshenmountainman (Jun 17, 2016)

The Fever said:


> https://www.amazon.com/MoKasi®-Arch...&sr=1-26-spons&keywords=rage+broadheads&psc=1
> 
> Anyone got these? They have killer reviews? Can not beat that price!


I just got some, came in today from ebay 20 broad heads for 24.00, came with 20 extra collars. They all spin true and all are sharp.


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## The Fever (Jun 17, 2016)

goshenmountainman said:


> I just got some, came in today from ebay 20 broad heads for 24.00, came with 20 extra collars. They all spin true and all are sharp.



What about weight ?


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## BlackEagle (Jun 19, 2016)

The Fever said:


> What about weight ?




Close enough for me.


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## The Fever (Jun 19, 2016)

BlackEagle said:


> Close enough for me.



Welp....


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## Cole Henry (Jun 21, 2016)

I bought a pack of rage chisel tip extremes last season and killed animals with all three. Every one of them were either bent or broke. It kinda made me wonder if these were the counterfeits but these were purchased from Dicks sporting goods. On a positive note all animals died very quickly.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jun 21, 2016)

Cole Henry said:


> I bought a pack of rage chisel tip extremes last season and killed animals with all three. Every one of them were either bent or broke. It kinda made me wonder if these were the counterfeits but these were purchased from Dicks sporting goods. On a positive note all animals died very quickly.



No, it's just the design.


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## goshenmountainman (Jun 22, 2016)

Smallest head was 99.7 and the largest one was 100.1, I have some regular rages to that came from my local shop. The grain measurement vary just like these...


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## SwampCrawler (Jun 23, 2016)

I use the hypos for hog hunting and they work. Don't see the need to buy 3 for 40 when you can buy 12 for 20. 
Companies ask for this kind of stuff to happen when they have stuff manufactured overseas, don't feel sorry for them. I'll continue to but them as long as they are offered.


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## Covehnter (Sep 13, 2016)

Any other word from the guys that bought these heads from Amazon? I, like several mentioning above, tossed $20 at them and got a dozen hypos. 

Just started tinkering with them and it seems to me blades don't sit well with the collars? I've shot the chisel tips for a couple years and the blades are snug when the head is seated, these aren't and some it seems impossible get the the little shoulder of the blade behind a petal of the collar.

Anyone else found this? My first experience with the hypos, just making sure I'm not missing something. Otherwise, I'll toss these in the trash.


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## countryboy27012 (Sep 13, 2016)

Covehnter said:


> Anyone else found this? My first experience with the hypos, just making sure I'm not missing something. Otherwise, I'll toss these in the trash.



Send them my way, I'll trash them for ya!


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## Covehnter (Sep 13, 2016)

countryboy27012 said:


> Send them my way, I'll trash them for ya!



Send me $20 and I'll send them your way. 

But in all seriousness, not that I wasn't serious before, is there something to seating the blades with hypos that is different than the chisel tips? Do the blades just not fit as tightly? Are the collars the problem?


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## GregoryB. (Sep 13, 2016)

Have not shot Rage but I got some Chinese Hypos to play with. Blades were dull and point wasn't sharp/pokey. They fly great . They rattle a bit like the collar doesn't hold them tight. Is that normal ? Shot them through several layers of cardboard and they didn't open fully. Not sure if I want to shoot them into a deer yet.


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## WildLines (Sep 13, 2016)

It isn't about being more American, it is about what is right.

I do not work in the MFG world but know plenty that do.  American co comes up with a design/idea  "mechanical broadhead" and spends the money to research, develop, market, patent, and sell it.  They have all of it or parts of it mfg overseas to keep cost and profits in check.  A year later the Chinese co starts selling it under a separate name an exact replica or one so close it can't be spotted by the naked eye.

You tell me what your opinion would be if you had taken the risk to build the co and product and the occupation you use to pay your bills is stolen by a Chinese co that doesn't have to honor our patents.


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## Kris87 (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm born to a deserted island...no church, no Bible.  I live my life.  Does God let me in when my time comes?

I'm a new bow hunter.  I'm immune to marketing but I search mechanical broadhead on eBay.  I buy some from China because the price is good.  Am I a bad person?  

Ohhhhh...life's riddles.


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## Watasha (Sep 13, 2016)

The guy that makes Bipolars had a thread on here once saying that he would only make his heads in America and that's why they're $50 for three. Rage hypodermics are $45 for 3. So you're telling me that Rage risks having they're patents stolen and misused over seas to save $5 per package? Seems like a poor business decision in the first place. For the record Rage is all I shoot.


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## Covehnter (Sep 13, 2016)

GregoryB. said:


> Have not shot Rage but I got some Chinese Hypos to play with. Blades were dull and point wasn't sharp/pokey. They fly great . They rattle a bit like the collar doesn't hold them tight. Is that normal ? Shot them through several layers of cardboard and they didn't open fully. Not sure if I want to shoot them into a deer yet.



Seems like you have some of the same questions I have. I can say the chisel tips have never rattled. Some of these do. My biggest concern is that the blades don't deploy on the shot but instead when they reach their destination. 

And as far as I'm concerned, it's the cost of doing business over seas- as far as an answer to the other comment.


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## LipRip'r (Sep 14, 2016)

Covehnter said:


> Send me $20 and I'll send them your way.
> 
> But in all seriousness, not that I wasn't serious before, is there something to seating the blades with hypos that is different than the chisel tips? Do the blades just not fit as tightly? Are the collars the problem?



Only Rage heads i've used are the hypos and mine are the $45 for 3 originals, haven't tried the china knock-offs yet...but all mine rattle like that.  The blades don't fit very tightly, I just assumed it was by design.  But i've had zero issue.  They hit where I aim and open up huge holes.


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 14, 2016)

WildLines said:


> It isn't about being more American, it is about what is right.
> 
> I do not work in the MFG world but know plenty that do.  American co comes up with a design/idea  "mechanical broadhead" and spends the money to research, develop, market, patent, and sell it.  They have all of it or parts of it mfg overseas to keep cost and profits in check.  A year later the Chinese co starts selling it under a separate name an exact replica or one so close it can't be spotted by the naked eye.
> 
> You tell me what your opinion would be if you had taken the risk to build the co and product and the occupation you use to pay your bills is stolen by a Chinese co that doesn't have to honor our patents.



I agree with this. Only to add, companies shouldn't have to go overseas to compete. 
It gets worse when an American company never introduced their idea to China and still get copied.


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 14, 2016)

Kris87 said:


> I'm born to a deserted island...no church, no Bible.  I live my life.  Does God let me in when my time comes?
> 
> I'm a new bow hunter.  I'm immune to marketing but I search mechanical broadhead on eBay.  I buy some from China because the price is good.  Am I a bad person?
> 
> Ohhhhh...life's riddles.



1. Has nothing to do with the discussion but, Romans 1:20-21. 

2. Those who WILLINGLY usurp Rage are contributing to Chinese corruption.


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## Kris87 (Sep 14, 2016)

ddd-shooter said:


> 2. Those who WILLINGLY usurp Rage are contributing to Chinese corruption.



I simply cannot force myself to believe this when I wear things made overseas, I own stocks of companies overseas, I own stocks of companies in America that produce overseas...knowing they produce products elsewhere for the good of shareholders.  I feel hypocritical.  I understand its a global economy.  If a company reaps the rewards of higher profits by producing an item in an unprotected country, then they must also pay the risks of said item being copied, stolen, etc....cost of doing business IMO.


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## Ihunt (Sep 14, 2016)

Watasha said:


> The guy that makes Bipolars had a thread on here once saying that he would only make his heads in America and that's why they're $50 for three. Rage hypodermics are $45 for 3. So you're telling me that Rage risks having they're patents stolen and misused over seas to save $5 per package? Seems like a poor business decision in the first place. For the record Rage is all I shoot.



Don't know for sure but I heard someone say his blades are made overseas. I thought the same as you.


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## bdrum419 (Sep 14, 2016)

BowChilling said:


> This is a good informative post. I don't care if they perform as good as the originals. The fact is some worthless counterfeiter is packaging and selling these as originals should make you all mad. If saving $7 on a pack of broadheads means more to you than supporting American companies over some Asian company stealing their design then shame on you!



hmm.. You think things are made in the USA? 

I am by no means supporting counterfeits or breaking patents/intellectual property laws but I know quite a bit about this subject as I distribute products that are made internationally. 

Right now the biggest counterfeit issue companies are dealing with is the manufacturers they are using are selling the products they make for "American companies" direct to consumer via Ebay, Alibaba, Amazon ect. 

I have dealt with it first hand.


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## bdrum419 (Sep 14, 2016)

Kris87 said:


> I simply cannot force myself to believe this when I wear things made overseas, I own stocks of companies overseas, I own stocks of companies in America that produce overseas...knowing they produce products elsewhere for the good of shareholders.  I feel hypocritical.  I understand its a global economy.  If a company reaps the rewards of higher profits by producing an item in an unprotected country, then they must also pay the risks of said item being copied, stolen, etc....cost of doing business IMO.



x2.. This is the reality of todays global economy. Roll with it or get rolled over! 

The reason I have sympathy for manufacturers is I have seen first hand the destruction large retailers can have on these factories. (ie. Placing multi million dollar PO's then cancelling the order after it is already in production). Those factories that employ hundreds of people have a choice to either close down or try to recoup the money they spend on raw materials by selling the products by any means necessary.


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## Brandingo (Sep 14, 2016)

*Wow*

So let me get this straight. Guy "sells out" and sends jobs to China to help his bottom line.  Still charges the same amount as he would if they were manufactured here, then calls you less of an American because you purchased from over the pond. 

Taking jobs away from American people < American people making a smart choice and purchasing the product at a cheaper price. 

What a time to be alive.


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## Covehnter (Sep 14, 2016)

LipRip'r said:


> Only Rage heads i've used are the hypos and mine are the $45 for 3 originals, haven't tried the china knock-offs yet...but all mine rattle like that.  The blades don't fit very tightly, I just assumed it was by design.  But i've had zero issue.  They hit where I aim and open up huge holes.



Thanks! This is what I was looking for. . . I'll give them a whirl.


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## 100hunter (Sep 14, 2016)

Kris87 said:


> I'm born to a deserted island...no church, no Bible.  I live my life.  Does God let me in when my time comes?
> 
> I'm a new bow hunter.  I'm immune to marketing but I search mechanical broadhead on eBay.  I buy some from China because the price is good.  Am I a bad person?
> 
> Ohhhhh...life's riddles.



Very well stated.  Sometimes our judgements are not a reflection of life's realities.  Not sure why we attack the Chinese companies like they are the only ones who counterfeit.  We counterfeit everything on God green earth, right here in the good ol USA  from clothing, mechanicals, meds, even money.


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## LipRip'r (Sep 14, 2016)

Covehnter said:


> Thanks! This is what I was looking for. . . I'll give them a whirl.



You won't regret it. I just ordered a dozen gonna test them against the originals


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## geebler (Sep 15, 2016)

WildLines said:


> It isn't about being more American, it is about what is right.
> 
> I do not work in the MFG world but know plenty that do.  American co comes up with a design/idea  "mechanical broadhead" and spends the money to research, develop, market, patent, and sell it.  They have all of it or parts of it mfg overseas to keep cost and profits in check.  A year later the Chinese co starts selling it under a separate name an exact replica or one so close it can't be spotted by the naked eye.
> 
> You tell me what your opinion would be if you had taken the risk to build the co and product and the occupation you use to pay your bills is stolen by a Chinese co that doesn't have to honor our patents.



If I take the time to R&D a product, I will keep the manufacturing in a locale that protects my patents. 

I think you would be disillusioned to realize that manufacturers do not send their products overseas to keep "cost and profits in check". 

To decrease costs and increase profits.....absolutely. The end cause and effect is your product may get replicated.


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## HEADHUNTER11 (Sep 15, 2016)

I ordered 12 hypos for 13.00 free shipping.   I shot a does this past weekend and preformed great.   Checked all heads and all were very sharp.  I spin tested them and furrells were straight.  Hard to pay 45.00 for 3 when I can get 12 for 13.00


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## The Fever (Sep 15, 2016)

Watasha said:


> The guy that makes Bipolars had a thread on here once saying that he would only make his heads in America and that's why they're $50 for three. Rage hypodermics are $45 for 3. So you're telling me that Rage risks having they're patents stolen and misused over seas to save $5 per package? Seems like a poor business decision in the first place. For the record Rage is all I shoot.



They are not saving $5. They are making an extra $15.


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## Watasha (Sep 15, 2016)

I think you are dead on Fever


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