# Managing GA lands for waterfowl



## awoods (Sep 27, 2015)

Been thinking about this lately...why doesn't GA put more effort in managing / creating waterfowl opportunities on our WMAs and NWRs? GA is not known for high numbers of waterfowl but we also don't have the habitat to attract them. I know we have several large rivers and numerous lakes but we don't have the wetlands. I would think that if GA lands were more appealing, over time ducks and geese would want to come here.

So, here is my thought process. MS is one of the poorest states in the country (tax revenues) but they have been able to manage state lands for waterfowl - a lot of the WMAs have levees that water is pumped into to create more wetlands, etc. The MS delta used to be a thick "jungle" before it was cleared / flattened, very different than what it is today.

I'm sure it all comes down to budget but If that is the case I would think GA (which has a much higher revenue stream) could potentially make more improvements. I know this wouldn't happen over night but I think it's possible. CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored, maybe the Feds would match the state's efforts or at least contribute.

Where would I start, well there are several WMAs along the flint, ocmulgee and oconee rivers. Take a bulldozer and create some levees to hold water and install some pumps. Maybe start filling them up in November each year. If you have ever been to malaison or delta national forest, that is basically what they did. 

Maybe I am over simplifying this...also it probably hurts us that we have a smaller number of waterfowlers as compared to deer or turkey hunters, so most conservation efforts go to establishing more deer / turkey habitat.

Note - MS requires a state stamp for waterfowl so that may be where some money comes from. I'd be willing to pay $5-10 per year for a state stamp if the funds would go to waterfowl improvements only. 

Would enjoy you thoughts...


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## MudDucker (Sep 27, 2015)

DNR says its broke.  Also, they say not enough of us waterfowling nuts to be worth it.  Lastly, they say what about Butler Island.


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## awoods (Sep 27, 2015)

Another thought is to add creating levees on WMAs (or other natural resource management) to state highway / interstate contracts as a condition. Say ok, the state will give you that multi million dollar job and will keep you too of mind for future projects but we also need you to do some work enhancing our wildlife areas. As greedy and corrupt most officials it would probably never work because they want the kick back for themselves. We need to get some (real) hunters in office...lol


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## rnelson5 (Sep 27, 2015)

#1 we do already have a Ga waterfowl license that we pay for. #2 is money. #3 is Ga is not a big waterfowl state. What little money goes into creating habitat will go towards deer since there are more deer, more deer hunters, and it is cheaper.


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## mizzippi jb (Sep 27, 2015)

The flyways play a major role in all of it as well.  It's not as simple as "if you plant it and/or flood it, they will come" in a state where a lot of ducks don't fly through for food and to get to wintering grounds.  Places in the flyways that manage for ducks are surely thinking about the revenue that hunters bring to their states during the season.  In my opinion, if Ga did more for waterfowling in our state, it would only make it marginally better (at best) for us as in-state hunters.


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## rnelson5 (Sep 27, 2015)

There are a few areas in the state that have enough habitat in one area to hold a fair amount of birds. The problem is that these are few and far between and most of it is privately owned. I do agree with JB that a lot of it has to do with not being in a good flyway.


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## maconbacon (Sep 27, 2015)

I echo what everyone else has said. Also, DU and DNR actually do projects annually in many of those places you mentioned. They're usually small scale because of money and it just not being worth the effort for a marginal increase in duck numbers a big project would attract.


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## awoods (Sep 27, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> The flyways play a major role in all of it as well.  It's not as simple as "if you plant it and/or flood it, they will come" in a state where a lot of ducks don't fly through for food and to get to wintering grounds.  Places in the flyways that manage for ducks are surely thinking about the revenue that hunters bring to their states during the season.  In my opinion, if Ga did more for waterfowling in our state, it would only make it marginally better (at best) for us as in-state hunters.



Yep, completely understand that GA will never have the numbers that MS has. I didn't mention this in my original post but here's more from where I am coming from... I hunt flooded timber on a wma in GA. When the river floods the woods, the place is full of ducks. If the river doesn't flood, very few. Been hunting here for 10 years and this has held true. My thinking, if there was a levee system, it would stay flooded all season, therefore, would hold more ducks. I guess I see the value. And I totally get that a levee system is time consuming and costly. Some of the larger WMAs could sell some timber to pay for it. 

Sorry if I am off, I'm just pumped about the season and can't stop thinking about hunting and how to better my (and everybody else's) hunting situation.


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## Knotwild (Sep 27, 2015)

I am not so sure about Ducks Unlimited tactics. I am not a DU expert, but they seem to take the money they raise and spend a large portion with large landowners. I know of one place that is receiving matching funds from DU and they are doing close to a million dollars worth of work as we speak. It is private and we can't hunt there. Some argue that attracting ducks benefits the public hunters, but I don't see it. The ducks change patterns to avoid heat.


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## rnelson5 (Sep 27, 2015)

Awoods you are spinning your wheels. DNR is so underfunded they can't even keep existing "food plots" on wma's planted. It will never happen.


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## GSURugger (Sep 27, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> Awoods you are spinning your wheels. DNR is so underfunded they can't even keep existing "food plots" on wma's planted. It will never happen.



Nope. A better option would be if all the ACE/Ga Power dams were removed.(LOL)   The rivers don't naturally flood anymore; much habitat was lost when the lakes were built.


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 27, 2015)

And talking about timber flooding when the river gets out of the banks, from what I've seen duck really flock to fresh flooded stuff due to the freshly flooded food. Let water stand long enough there won't be much food for them.


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## king killer delete (Sep 27, 2015)

Been complaining about this since 78. It ain't Gona change. Good luck&#55357;&#56832;


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## awoods (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks for the comments. I guess not having enough ducks is a "first world problem". At least we are a few states over from good hunting. And I guess it can be a good thing that most GA hunters don't duck hunt, less competition!


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## georgiaboy94 (Sep 27, 2015)

I think that georgia's problem, as mentioned above, is habitat... not the birds. Look at Florida for example. They hold a lot more birds than we do and I guarantee they don't fly a circle around georgia to get there. If the money was available, I think that Georgia could definitely improve on the habitat. We have plenty of areas such as the coast, large lakes, and flat hardwood tracts along rivers that have the potential to hold birds if the were managed properly.


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## WOODIE13 (Sep 27, 2015)

awoods said:


> Thanks for the comments. I guess not having enough ducks is a "first world problem". At least we are a few states over from good hunting. And I guess it can be a good thing that most GA hunters don't duck hunt, less competition!



True, but when I was down there, they were out in force and early.


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## across the river (Sep 27, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> The flyways play a major role in all of it as well.  It's not as simple as "if you plant it and/or flood it, they will come" in a state where a lot of ducks don't fly through for food and to get to wintering grounds.  Places in the flyways that manage for ducks are surely thinking about the revenue that hunters bring to their states during the season.  In my opinion, if Ga did more for waterfowling in our state, it would only make it marginally better (at best) for us as in-state hunters.



This is correct.  It all comes down to food.  Even the WMAs in the flyway that holds large numbers of ducks are a result of the private farmland around them.  The WMA's all along the Mississippi River  Delta that are managed for waterfowl, hold large numbers because they are surrounded by thousands of acres of farmland that provides food.  Hence that is where the ducks fly through, and the ducks are in the area anyway.  You could flood the same acreage in East Mississippi surrounded by forest and pine thickets, and it won't get near the numbers one in the delta does.   You can flooded, dike, and build whatever you want in Georgia, but you aren't going to draw enough ducks to make a appreciable difference.  Even highly managed public land in Georgia with limited hunted pressure is often hit and miss, and most will pull primarily wood ducks, ring necks, and hooded merge, which are already here anyway.  Look at Butler.  It is quite a bit of land, it is on the coast, its "managed", and it is only hunted once per week based on a quota draw so hunting pressure is limited.  Even then is still draws limited numbers of birds.  Georgia DNR has spent plenty of time on some WMAs trying to create quail habitat, and those project have been for the most part disappointing, because the surrounding land typically isn't ideal for quail.  It is even to harder to do when you are trying to draw waterfowl from thousands of miles away, when they have better options in other parts of the country.


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## maconbacon (Sep 27, 2015)

across the river said:


> This is correct.  It all comes down to food.  Even the WMAs in the flyway that holds large numbers of ducks are a result of the private farmland around them.  The WMA's all along the Mississippi River  Delta that are managed for waterfowl, hold large numbers because they are surrounded by thousands of acres of farmland that provides food.  Hence that is where the ducks fly through, and the ducks are in the area anyway.  You could flood the same acreage in East Mississippi surrounded by forest and pine thickets, and it won't get near the numbers one in the delta does.   You can flooded, dike, and build whatever you want in Georgia, but you aren't going to draw enough ducks to make a appreciable difference.  Even highly managed public land in Georgia with limited hunted pressure is often hit and miss, and most will pull primarily wood ducks, ring necks, and hooded merge, which are already here anyway.  Look at Butler.  It is quite a bit of land, it is on the coast, its "managed", and it is only hunted once per week based on a quota draw so hunting pressure is limited.  Even then is still draws limited numbers of birds.  Georgia DNR has spent plenty of time on some WMAs trying to create quail habitat, and those project have been for the most part disappointing, because the surrounding land typically isn't ideal for quail.  It is even to harder to do when you are trying to draw waterfowl from thousands of miles away, when they have better options in other parts of the country.



^^^Bingo^^^ Draining and ditching wetlands to plant cotton does no good for ducks.  Also true about the quail, use of pesticides and destruction of prime quail land has done them in except in a few pockets.

This is why I support DU, even if everything they do doesn't translate directly into more hunting opportunity. Wetlands need restoring on a larger scale than at scattered WMAs to have any meaningful impact on the duck population. This is true for all states, not just GA


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## andyparm (Sep 28, 2015)

This topic seems to come up every year. I'm evidently one of the few that thinks more intense management could greatly benefit the state's waterfowl population. It would take a much higher level of management than is currently in place and would be expensive up front and to keep up which is why it will never happen. 

Awoods, your idea about putting projects in as part of road projects is a great idea! It probably won't ever happen, but it makes perfect sense to me. 

If the DNR/state had the money to drain, burn, and plant Butler, Champney, Rhetts as well as Butler Refuge the coastal area would see an immediate difference in waterfowl numbers. Add in more management on the numbers of hunters allowed in Rhetts and Champney and there you have it. Fast forward 10 years with more projects taking shape and you have yourself a top East coast duck hunting location. Again, it will never happen which is a shame for us GA duck hunters. I know of several other areas in the state that could easily be modified into duck habitat with a mix of open flooded planted fields and flooded timber. Once again, it is highly unlikely to happen, but we can all daydream...now someone disagree with me so we can have an unnecessarily heated discussion about.


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## kevbo3333 (Sep 28, 2015)

I have seen 100+ ducks in the flooded corn at the DU project just north on Rum Creek. It is a very small area but it holds a lot of birds at times. If the state would create more impoundments it would definitely hold more more birds. If you have property and you Pump water to flood millet/ corn and you will see many more birds than you would with out the food.  We can talk to we are blue in the face but the state will not fund it.


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## dom (Sep 28, 2015)

if only we each had a billion dollars.....


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## rnelson5 (Sep 28, 2015)

dom said:


> if only we each had a billion dollars.....



ya mine would not be spent in GA i can tell you that much lol.


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## Joe Overby (Sep 28, 2015)

kevbo3333 said:


> I have seen 100+ ducks in the flooded corn at the DU project just north on Rum Creek. It is a very small area but it holds a lot of birds at times. If the state would create more impoundments it would definitely hold more more birds. If you have property and you Pump water to flood millet/ corn and you will see many more birds than you would with out the food.  We can talk to we are blue in the face but the state will not fund it.



I see tens of thousands every day in Miss and Arkie...100+ is NOT a lot of birds...


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## awoods (Sep 28, 2015)

Well I will remain optimistic on improving GA duck hunting. At one time it was thought impossible that the Roman Empire could fall, that you could get internet without wires and something lighter than air could fly...

Is attracting ducks to Ga really that difficult in the grand scheme of things? Where there is a will there is a way. Regardless of what other have said, I plan to remain positive!


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## jakebuddy (Sep 28, 2015)

Corp of engineers and bmp issues would take an act of Congress to get anything done as well.


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## Beta Tau789 (Sep 29, 2015)

I talked with a DU "counter" at the end of last season (actually met him out scouting snipe). His story was of a lot of duck clubs in the Carolina's who have been managing habitat and holding a lot of ducks in the last 5 years or so. We talked about how this could impact the migration if the birds don't have enough pressure or weather to feel the need to travel further south. Basically if birds are managed well enough below the frost/freeze line, it really hurts our chances being further south


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## flyer1946 (Sep 29, 2015)

hello everyone -----yep another newbe 
the worst thing about moveing is finding places to hunt
could use some help in finding some spots close to temple ga.
thanks guys


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## g0nef1sshn (Sep 29, 2015)

flyer1946 said:


> hello everyone -----yep another newbe
> the worst thing about moveing is finding places to hunt
> could use some help in finding some spots close to temple ga.
> thanks guys



Just gonna give ya some help here. Start a new thread. Introduce yourself a little more. Where did you come from? where have you hunted? how long? Why'dya move?

These guys (and really no one should) arent just gonna tell you where to hunt. If they do, its a sin 

Any how, welcome to the thick skinned forum, and try the search function. It might answer your questions before ya have to ask.


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## MudDucker (Sep 29, 2015)

g0nef1sshn said:


> These guys (and really no one should) arent just gonna tell you where to hunt. If they do, its a sin



This comment is so unfair and so untrue.  Why I will tell you in a heartbeat where to hunt.  If you are on the coast, hunt the marshes or with the right boat hunt outside for sea ducks.  If you are in the south, hunt the swamps and river basins.  If you are in middle Georgia hunt the ponds, rivers and creeks.  If you are in north Georgia, you are pretty much out of luck, but hunt the big reservoirs.

If you want to consitently kill ducks, head west!

See, wasn't that easy!


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## rnelson5 (Sep 29, 2015)

flyer1946 said:


> hello everyone -----yep another newbe
> the worst thing about moveing is finding places to hunt
> could use some help in finding some spots close to temple ga.
> thanks guys


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 29, 2015)

If refuges and better habitat won't bring ducks here, why is the ace basin is considered one of the best places to duck hunt?


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## andyparm (Sep 29, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> If refuges and better habitat won't bring ducks here, why is the ace basin is considered one of the best places to duck hunt?



BOOM. You can't tell me that while NC SC and FL are all good places to duck hunt, Georgia is just the odd state out along the coast. It all has to do with available habitat. Georgia has the land and right set ups. It is just under managed. It would take a little cash, but it could be done right.


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## kevbo3333 (Sep 29, 2015)

Joe, I don't think anyone is expecting miss or arkie type results and if you are you will be disappointed. If you don't think improving waterfowl hunting in GA would be a plus for ga waterfowlers then that's your opinion. why you would even comment on this forum other than spreading your negativity.


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## maconbacon (Sep 29, 2015)

Yes, the ACE basin is a good spot for ducks and doesn't seem to be much different from the Ga coast, but as BetaTau mentioned above it takes more than gov't actions. It takes a lot of private effort as well. Now I'm not super familiar with duck clubs but I've only heard of a few in Ga and they aren't on the coast. Go to the clubs section of the forum and all it is is deer deer deer with the occasional duck club but over half of those are out of state. Also, with the Fl thing, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of their ducks on the gulf side? We don't have any gulf water and we're so close a lot of those ducks probably fly through Ga without stopping, otherwise they stop in Seminole. 

I guess my whole point is it isn't as simple as yelling at DNR to spend more money or anything like that. It would take a huge effort by DNR + DU, etc + private land owners to turn the tide in our favor.


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## andyparm (Sep 29, 2015)

maconbacon said:


> Yes, the ACE basin is a good spot for ducks and doesn't seem to be much different from the Ga coast, but as BetaTau mentioned above it takes more than gov't actions. It takes a lot of private effort as well. Now I'm not super familiar with duck clubs but I've only heard of a few in Ga and they aren't on the coast. Go to the clubs section of the forum and all it is is deer deer deer with the occasional duck club but over half of those are out of state. Also, with the Fl thing, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of their ducks on the gulf side? We don't have any gulf water and we're so close a lot of those ducks probably fly through Ga without stopping, otherwise they stop in Seminole.
> 
> I guess my whole point is it isn't as simple as yelling at DNR to spend more money or anything like that. It would take a huge effort by DNR + DU, etc + private land owners to turn the tide in our favor.



Definitely agree with your second statement. Before DU got involved there used to be the Altamaha duck club that made big contributions to the upkeep of rhetts, etc. It would take something like that with a lot of support from DNR and DU to make it what it needs to be (just talking about the coastal zone here but the rest of the state could definitely benefit). If a statewide privately funded club were started that would be a step in the right direction. A few highly connected members would be even better. Support from the DNR, state gov't, and DU could help make all this talk a reality. There is already plenty of WMA land in this state. A lot of it would take minimal changes to make prime duck habitat. 

Hate to think all of this is just wishful thinking. Someone get the ball rolling already!


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## rnelson5 (Sep 29, 2015)

I can promise you that just about every puddle duck wanted comes through GA in the winter time. Not in the numbers out west but they come through. Again the problem is habitat. Creating a couple of hundred acres of here and there will not cut it. You need thousands of acres of habitat in a tight area that has feeding, roosting, and most importantly RESTING areas to attract and HOLD any number of birds. Look at the folks that are really successful hunting in GA and they all will have that scenario i listed above i promise you. By successful I mean shooting 600 -1000 birds in a season as a group not a hundred woodies and ringers.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 29, 2015)

Look around the ace basin area and you will see tons of impoundments some working some not. It use to have 10x the amount of working impoundment before Hugo.


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## maconbacon (Sep 29, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Look around the ace basin area and you will see tons of impoundments some working some not. It use to have 10x the amount of working impoundment before Hugo.



Legit question cause I don't know, are those impoundments mostly public, private, or? Are they strictly for hunting or are they working agricultural areas (rice or something)?


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 29, 2015)

All private. There are a few like the Cape or bear island that are wma draw hunts.


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## andyparm (Sep 29, 2015)

There used to be a lot more impoundments like this in GA as well. Several still exist that are privately owned as part of subdivisions now. There are a few that I would cringe to know how many birds winter in them every year...I know of one in particular that I glance in sometimes that is loaded. I've seen mallards, wigeon, gadwall, ringers, teal, shovelers, geese, coots, etc. Just about every species that flies through GA. I'd love to thin out that population...several others that the dikes could be repaired and flooded. I think about this stuff a lot...


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## rnelson5 (Sep 29, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> All private. There are a few like the Cape or bear island that are wma draw hunts.



Thats the problem. Most all of the land that would be suitable for this in GA is privately owned. You would have to get a massive amount of landowners to agree to build and spend the money to do it. I think you would have a better chance finding Waldo.


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## krazybronco2 (Sep 29, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> Thats the problem. Most all of the land that would be suitable for this in GA is privately owned. You would have to get a massive amount of landowners to agree to build and spend the money to do it. I think you would have a better chance finding Waldo.



exactly know a land owner near us that can just about pull every bird off the lake when he floods his corn fields.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 29, 2015)

krazybronco2 said:


> exactly know a land owner near us that can just about pull every bird off the lake when he floods his corn fields.



Yes they draw birds, but if there were a handful around the same lake they would attract birds to the area that normally wouldn't come. They would then hold them. These same birds would also use the lake making it better. Problem is there is not enough private interest to do it.


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## bander_TC50 (Sep 29, 2015)

krazybronco2 said:


> exactly know a land owner near us that can just about pull every bird off the lake when he floods his corn fields.



seen it happen last year


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## across the river (Sep 29, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Yes they draw birds, but if there were a handful around the same lake they would attract birds to the area that normally wouldn't come. They would then hold them. These same birds would also use the lake making it better. Problem is there is not enough private interest to do it.



The problem with this whole discussion is people keep comparing public land and private land and you can't do that.  You can look at the ACE basin, Western North Carolina, Santee Cooper, or anywhere else you want to, and it is going to be the same story.  The vast majority of the birds are going to be sitting on a private impoundment somewhere, that is has plenty of food and limited pressure.  Most any bird that happens to venture off to a public lake, river, or impoundment is going to get shot,  sky busted, or run up by someone "scouting."   Even the quota hunts on most  of these places average a couple of birds per hunter, which probably isn't too much better than Butler. I promise you the success rate on the private land is much better. If you privately build an impoundment, flood a field, drain and plant a pond, etc… in a location that has a reasonable number of ducks flying through (i.e. near a major lake or river), you will attract some ducks.  As long as you have food and don't shoot the place more once or twice a week, you will likely kill a fair number of birds.  There are plenty of these type of places all over the state, and people kill ducks you don't typically see on public land.    The problem is, that anything open to the public is going to get yahoos on it, just like the public places do today.  Outside of a major flyway where a significant number of new birds are flying through the area daily during the migration, public land is going to be spotty at best.   
If anyone wants to have a place in Georgia to consistently kill ducks, save up your money and build your own impoundment.   The government isn't going to help regardless of what they  do.  You have lakes around the state that could hold plenty of ducks, but they don't hold near the ducks they could carry because nearly every one that lands is getting run up by a boat and or shot at.  The state could put 1000 50 acre corn ponds around the state, or one 50,000 acre corn pond in one spot and it isn't going to matter as long as every yahoo that wants to can sky bust and constantly run up every duck that lands on the place.   All this is wishful thinking, but you would all be far better off trying to figure out how to pool you funds and build you own  private place rather than trying to figure out to the government to create some public spot that people are going to just mess up.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 29, 2015)

Yes, I totally agree. But the fact that birds would have food and refuge can't hurt. We would winter more birds and that is a positive. More birds would be in the area. It would have a positive effect but the amount of property and money to do it will never happen.


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## rnelson5 (Sep 29, 2015)

across the river said:


> The problem with this whole discussion is people keep comparing public land and private land and you can't do that.  You can look at the ACE basin, Western North Carolina, Santee Cooper, or anywhere else you want to, and it is going to be the same story.  The vast majority of the birds are going to be sitting on a private impoundment somewhere, that is has plenty of food and limited pressure.  Most any bird that happens to venture off to a public lake, river, or impoundment is going to get shot,  sky busted, or run up by someone "scouting."   Even the quota hunts on most  of these places average a couple of birds per hunter, which probably isn't too much better than Butler. I promise you the success rate on the private land is much better. If you privately build an impoundment, flood a field, drain and plant a pond, etc… in a location that has a reasonable number of ducks flying through (i.e. near a major lake or river), you will attract some ducks.  As long as you have food and don't shoot the place more once or twice a week, you will likely kill a fair number of birds.  There are plenty of these type of places all over the state, and people kill ducks you don't typically see on public land.    The problem is, that anything open to the public is going to get yahoos on it, just like the public places do today.  Outside of a major flyway where a significant number of new birds are flying through the area daily during the migration, public land is going to be spotty at best.
> If anyone wants to have a place in Georgia to consistently kill ducks, save up your money and build your own impoundment.   The government isn't going to help regardless of what they  do.  You have lakes around the state that could hold plenty of ducks, but they don't hold near the ducks they could carry because nearly every one that lands is getting run up by a boat and or shot at.  The state could put 1000 50 acre corn ponds around the state, or one 50,000 acre corn pond in one spot and it isn't going to matter as long as every yahoo that wants to can sky bust and constantly run up every duck that lands on the place.   All this is wishful thinking, but you would all be far better off trying to figure out how to pool you funds and build you own  private place rather than trying to figure out to the government to create some public spot that people are going to just mess up.


Thread done after that one.


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## Joe Overby (Sep 29, 2015)

kevbo3333 said:


> Joe, I don't think anyone is expecting miss or arkie type results and if you are you will be disappointed. If you don't think improving waterfowl hunting in GA would be a plus for ga waterfowlers then that's your opinion. why you would even comment on this forum other than spreading your negativity.


How am I spreading negativity?? We don't live in a flyway, dnr is broke, and the majority of decent hunting land in this state is private. Those are all fact. Holding 100 birds on a piece of public land isn't a world turning event...now, were that wma to attract tens of thousands, that would be something to pay attention to. But it doesnt, so what do you propose the state do to benefit a Ga waterfowl hunters in a part of the country that doesn't attract waterfowl?? The southern half of the state, while largely agricultural, would have to change its crop production to something that could be flooded yearly over the next several decades to create more waterfowl friendly habitat... But that wouldn't change the fact that we are NOT in a flyway. I'm sorry if i don't share your same optimism that our wonderful leadership will suddenly start caring about a gross minority of its population that would appreciate it if they appropriated a giant portion of its resources to fund a recreational activity that accounts for an extremely small portion of the states revenue. Sorry if you consider that spreading negativity... I call it being real...


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## andyparm (Sep 30, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Yes, I totally agree. But the fact that birds would have food and refuge can't hurt. We would winter more birds and that is a positive. More birds would be in the area. It would have a positive effect but the amount of property and money to do it will never happen.



Agreed. Been saying this for years. Take Butler Refuge as a small example. If it were planted in (whatever duck food that best fits) then it would automatically winter more birds. Those birds that might otherwise leave will stay and as weather comes and goes so do more birds passing through, but you still have more birds that stay than usual. Again, it would need to be on a much larger scale to make any difference. I'm most familiar with the GA coast so I don't know what the interior of the state would need to make it work. I do know of some public areas that are already really good and could be amazing with a little work. I daydream about this stuff actually happening one day so any time I get a chance to talk about I do...SOMEONE PLANT THE ALTAMAHA IN CORN OR SOMETHING. JUST THE WHOLE PLACE. Thanks in advance.


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## across the river (Sep 30, 2015)

andyparm said:


> Agreed. Been saying this for years. Take Butler Refuge as a small example. If it were planted in (whatever duck food that best fits) then it would automatically winter more birds. Those birds that might otherwise leave will stay and as weather comes and goes so do more birds passing through, but you still have more birds that stay than usual. Again, it would need to be on a much larger scale to make any difference. I'm most familiar with the GA coast so I don't know what the interior of the state would need to make it work. I do know of some public areas that are already really good and could be amazing with a little work. I daydream about this stuff actually happening one day so any time I get a chance to talk about I do...SOMEONE PLANT THE ALTAMAHA IN CORN OR SOMETHING. JUST THE WHOLE PLACE. Thanks in advance.



Seminole and Clarks Hill  are both hydrilla lakes, and that is what the majority of the ducks that you find there are eating as the preferred food.   Both started getting hydrilla in the 90s, and the hydrilla has spread to the point that it covers well over half of seminole and has pushed from just the little river arm to touch essentially all of Clark's Hill to some extent.  If the highlighted portion of you above post was true, then both lakes would automatically hold many, many, time more ducks now than they did 20+ years ago, because this are tens of thousands of more acres of food there now than there was then.


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## florida boy (Sep 30, 2015)

across the river said:


> Seminole and Clarks Hill  are both hydrilla lakes, and that is what the majority of the ducks that you find there are eating as the preferred food.   Both started getting hydrilla in the 90s, and the hydrilla has spread to the point that it covers well over half of seminole and has pushed from just the little river arm to touch essentially all of Clark's Hill to some extent.  If the highlighted portion of you above post was true, then both lakes would automatically hold many, many, time more ducks now than they did 20+ years ago, because this are tens of thousands of more acres of food there now than there was then.


I have to say this about Seminole and "the ducks we used to have ". They have been spraying the hydrilla in large areas over the last few years to the point where most places can be reached with an outboard during the winter months . I scout the lake each year with a plane and can see by the " mud motor " trails that nothing is sacred anymore . The birds simply cannot find a place to sit and rest for any period of time . Until about 5-8 years ago we killed wigeon , gadwall , teal , and a few mallards on a consistent basis . Growing up hunting that lake shooting a bullneck or bluebill was laughed upon .....now your lucky to consistently get a limit period of anything legal to shoot . I notice several private ponds getting loaded with ducks once the " scouting "  yahoos hit the lake . One big pond that apparently isnt hunted NE of Seminole will have more puddle ducks on it in the late season than the whole lake itself .


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## Woodsedgefarm (Sep 30, 2015)

Food is just part of the issue. Next is pressure. If birds can't rest food means nothing.


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## ehilburn11 (Sep 30, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> The flyways play a major role in all of it as well.  It's not as simple as "if you plant it and/or flood it, they will come" in a state where a lot of ducks don't fly through for food and to get to wintering grounds.



I agree that we dont have any wintering grounds close, so there are less birds for us when they migrate down. But the reason they dont come is because we dont have these resources of the DNR improving our land. You cant say that this would hurt amount of ducks that fly over, and maybe if it works ducks will come back and bring others. We can only go backwards if were not improving our land to attract ducks.


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## across the river (Oct 1, 2015)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Food is just part of the issue. Next is pressure. If birds can't rest food means nothing.



The exact point I have tried to make on every post I have put on this thread. The entire three pages can be summed up in that one sentence.  Nothing you build, plant, or flood is going to matter if the public (yahoos) have unrestricted access to the place.   The reason private impoundments hold more ducks than public water is primarily a result of the birds having an opportunity to rest.  If someone shoots at or runs up a duck every time it lights on a place, it is simply going to fly over and join the other ducks sitting on the private pond next door.


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## mizzippi jb (Oct 1, 2015)

ehilburn11 said:


> I agree that we dont have any wintering grounds close, so there are less birds for us when they migrate down. But the reason they dont come is because we dont have these resources of the DNR improving our land. You cant say that this would hurt amount of ducks that fly over, and maybe if it works ducks will come back and bring others. We can only go backwards if were not improving our land to attract ducks.



I think it would have a much greater impact around the coastal areas.  In my opinion it won't help much anywhere else in the state.  
Atlantic flyway-most ducks are flying down the actual coast, like they have for thousands of years before.

Mississippi and central flyways-natural for them to fly down the river valley, plus 100s of thousands of acres of agriculture for them to feed there and winter there, and thousands of impoundments that are, when flooded, perfect for feeding ducks.

Pacific flyway....well, honestly don't know much about it, but it definitely has it going on with liberal limits and longer season.  I'm assuming it's a combo of ag, proximity to breeding grounds, and the coast.


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## andyparm (Oct 2, 2015)

across the river said:


> Seminole and Clarks Hill  are both hydrilla lakes, and that is what the majority of the ducks that you find there are eating as the preferred food.   Both started getting hydrilla in the 90s, and the hydrilla has spread to the point that it covers well over half of seminole and has pushed from just the little river arm to touch essentially all of Clark's Hill to some extent.  If the highlighted portion of you above post was true, then both lakes would automatically hold many, many, time more ducks now than they did 20+ years ago, because this are tens of thousands of more acres of food there now than there was then.



Like I said, I don't know anything about those areas. I do know that the coastal areas greatly benefit from better habitat (obviously). The years that we have good habitat we have more birds. I think good habitat happens by accident honestly. I'm not sure that it has anything to do with the actual management of the areas. If you basically turned an area that already receives a good number of ducks (by GA standards) into an agricultural area like you find along the Miss. then you will attract and hold more ducks. The set up is there. The money unfortunately is not.

I think I said in the beginning that limits on numbers of hunters would need to be implemented to make the coastal areas really work. As it stands, there are too many people in those areas shooting at every bird that flies over. 

Butler only being hunted once per week on a quota would be a good place to do some serious planting and managing. After a few years you would know without a doubt whether is works or not. Guarantee Butler would have it's highest kill totals ever recorded the first year if it were planted. Seems like those numbers would only rise in the following years. Especially if the rest of the area were planted/managed. Anyways, it doesn't seem like we have to worry about it actually happening...until it happens, my ideas are better than yours


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## Souhternhunter17 (Oct 2, 2015)

1. Its a Duck hunter problem in a deer hunting state. 
2. No one is going to jeopardize their deer hunting for duck hunting with no guarantee of return
3. Duck hunting requires more work
4. DNR and ESPECIALLY the GA legislature don't care and dont want to spend the money for public land improvement for ducks 
5. People are content with going west to duck hunt
6. The over bearing fact is MONEY

Just a few thoughts. With that being said if Private land owners would show more interest in it (and show success of attracting waterfowl) the state might would give it a small thought...! Who knows!


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## Duckwildcalls (Oct 4, 2015)

That's exactly right , you use to could kill all kinds of puddle ducks on Seminole now your lucky to kill a few divers. Its all because of habitat change. Also Instead of leaving some hydrilla for the ducks they spray it all till the ducks that do stop have nothing to eat and keep moving. Its getting worst and worst every year with the amount of hunters running up ducks and skyblasting all day long. A long time ago a group of ducks could go unfound on the lake for weeks and never be bothered but now the day they sit down they are blasted at. Im afraid Seminole is a thing of the past now. Some extra management would make it a little better. Obviously we wouldn't get the numbers out west would , we just don't have the migration like they do ,  but it would hold birds longer and give them more water to utilize. It will probably will never happen, but to do a little management wouldn't be near as hard as most think. In my opinion I think it would be beneficial to stop all hunting on public land at 12. Some will disagree but a lot of states do that.


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