# 10mm load debate



## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2017)

I'm trying to decide what to buy for my 10mm Glock. I will eventually hand load, however, season is coming fast so I don't expect I will find the time to work up a load. I realize that most factory loads are no where near the potential of the 10mm, so I will likely go with the hotter, either Underwood, Buffalo or Dbl Tap. Brand does not concern me much since I will likely not continue to buy. The bullet selection is my interest. Lets talk bullets. Some would say, more, more, more penetration, however, there is a point that your not transferring energy to the animal. A bullet that penetrates a block...say 15 inches is transferring much, much more energy to a block than a bullet that penetrates 35 inches, in regard to a life size animal, because at 15 inches, it's likely passing through. once it passes through, all remaining energy is a waste. so the goal would be to find a bullet that expanded well, that would pass through every time, yet have no waste of energy. I have seen bullets pass through and get caught in the hide. This was real close to optimal, needing a little more energy to get the guaranteed pass through. Some get caught up on having the bullet retain all it's weight for driving purposes. I understand this if your on the verge of not getting pass throughs, such as a 243. I guess I come from a different crowd. I have always shot ballistic tips and put 100 % of the energy into the deer, not even looking for a pass through. Yes, I have heard that some ranches don't even allow ballistic tips and I have heard stories where we chased a dbl lung shot deer 2 miles also. We all know that these come from misplaced shots where no bullet would have killed the animal. With this mindset, you can see why I don't always agree with the typical bullet choices. So, I'm pondering, what is needed and what is wasted energy blown into the dirt beyond? Which bullet will expand enough to use up and utilize some of the wasted pass through energy of the 10mm. I appreciate the discussion so I might better  evaluate my thoughts


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## frankwright (Oct 16, 2017)

I handload Hornady XTP's for my 10mm. I rarely get a pass through but I shoot deer high shoulder or base of neck and they do not go more than a few yards.
I hunted with a 243 rifle for many years and never got a pass through but I never had to look for a deer either. Shot placement is the key as far as I am concerned.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2017)

frankwright said:


> I handload Hornady XTP's for my 10mm. I rarely get a pass through but I shoot deer high shoulder or base of neck and they do not go more than a few yards.
> I hunted with a 243 rifle for many years and never got a pass through but I never had to look for a deer either. Shot placement is the key as far as I am concerned.


This is info that I need because I incorrectly assumed that the XTp's were passing through. I have no problem with a non pass through. Pass throughs only aids in tracking a bad shot. If it's a good shot, the deer will not be far. I had rather make a devastating wound channel than poke a hole any day. This is my first 10mm so I have no experience. I appreciate those that share their experience.


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## deast1988 (Oct 16, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> This is info that I need because I incorrectly assumed that the XTp's were passing through. I have no problem with a non pass through. Pass throughs only aids in tracking a bad shot. If it's a good shot, the deer will not be far. I had rather make a devastating wound channel than poke a hole any day. This is my first 10mm so I have no experience. I appreciate those that share their experience.



I'd opt for hot 200gr xtps. I sold my 10, but 200grs just was a happy medium for me. Bigger wounds deeper slower moving heavier bullet. 

I believe most any 180+ controlled expansion in proper place will give solid results. But the type performance you say you want a Fast moving 200gr controlled expansion hollowpoint should serve you well.


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## pacecars (Oct 16, 2017)

Most of my deer have been shot with the Doubletap 200gr and 230gr hardcast loads. They have shown excellent accuracy in a 6 inch and 5 inch S&W 610, Glock 29, Sig 1911, Colt Delta Elite and a Custom Ruger GP100 3 inch barrel. They break shoulders and keep going. The 230 penetrated the entire length on a Texas Heart shot.


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## Lilly001 (Oct 17, 2017)

I think pacecars is on the right track.
The 10mm is not a high powered round compared to even the 44mag. While an expanding bullet would be acceptable, and even preferable, for a side heart lung shot I would like the assurance of a hard cast for those instances where I might not be totally up to the shot.
That said, I'm using up some 180 Gold dots I had Reed's ammunition research load for me. I'll go to hard cast in the future.
You might look a Reed's offerings. They are reasonable and you can call them to tweak them for your needs.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 17, 2017)

pacecars said:


> Most of my deer have been shot with the Doubletap 200gr and 230gr hardcast loads. The 230 penetrated the entire length on a Texas Heart shot.


Hmmmm, that defines exactly what I don't want. A bullet that penetrates that much has no expansion and is basically just poking a hole. If you could find the bullet, you could reload and shoot it again


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## pacecars (Oct 17, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hmmmm, that defines exactly what I don't want. A bullet that penetrates that much has no expansion and is basically just poking a hole. If you could find the bullet, you could reload and shoot it again



To each his own. I prefer to punch two holes when possible and hit bone in between them. I don't like to track and they don't go far.


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## rosewood (Oct 18, 2017)

Been watching Razor Dobbs on his hunting show.  He has been killing various game with his 10mm.  The baddest was a Cape Buffalo, now he practiced a lot and did a dead heart shot.  I have always been a 10mm fan, but he gave me even more respect for it.  He also killed Zebras, Wildebeest, and various other thin skin game.  Many were complete pass thrus when he used the 200 grain hard cast boolit from Double Tap (save the cape buffalo).  I think he was using a 155 grain all copper barnes?? double tap loaded bullet for white tails and it was that perfect "stuck in the other side of the hide" that you are asking for.

I personally have used my own loaded 200 grain hard cast for my hunting load, but have yet to shoot a white tail with it, although have killed a few hogs with it.  I myself prefer a complete pass thru.  Shoot them through both lungs and they won't go very far when their lungs fill up with blood.

Rosewood


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2017)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hmmmm, that defines exactly what I don't want. A bullet that penetrates that much has no expansion and is basically just poking a hole. If you could find the bullet, you could reload and shoot it again



Is a non-expanding bullet even legal to hunt with?


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## Lilly001 (Oct 18, 2017)

660griz said:


> Is a non-expanding bullet even legal to hunt with?



I believe that an all lead bullet, even if it is hardened so that it has little if any deformation on impact with the game animal, is still considered an expanding bullet and is legal.
I believe only fully jacketed bullets are prohibited.
As a practical matter the DNR would have problems proving a lead bullet was not an expanding bullet.


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## Jack Ryan (Oct 18, 2017)

rosewood said:


> Been watching Razor Dobbs on his hunting show.  He has been killing various game with his 10mm.  The baddest was a Cape Buffalo, now he practiced a lot and did a dead heart shot.  I have always been a 10mm fan, but he gave me even more respect for it.  He also killed Zebras, Wildebeest, and various other thin skin game.  Many were complete pass thrus when he used the 200 grain hard cast boolit from Double Tap (save the cape buffalo).  I think he was using a 155 grain all copper barnes?? double tap loaded bullet for white tails and it was that perfect "stuck in the other side of the hide" that you are asking for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The thing about hunting shows is, they never show tape of the misses, the wounded ones, the cripples, and hours of tracking with a dozen paid guides and bush beaters.


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## pacecars (Oct 18, 2017)

Hard cast lead bullets are still considered expanding bullets


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## 660griz (Oct 18, 2017)

I know. I just wish the DNR would put FMJ and be done with it.


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## rosewood (Oct 18, 2017)

Jack Ryan said:


> The thing about hunting shows is, they never show tape of the misses, the wounded ones, the cripples, and hours of tracking with a dozen paid guides and bush beaters.



I agree.


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## rosewood (Oct 18, 2017)

pacecars said:


> Hard cast lead bullets are still considered expanding bullets



Correct.


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## oppthepop (Oct 18, 2017)

I'm gonna give my Glock 40 a run with the Underwood 200 grain jacketed hollow point and see how it does. No experience yet, but I'm really liking the 10mm. Got a G-29 too for easier carry. I don't think you will be disappointed.


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## ThatredneckguyJamie (Oct 19, 2017)

I will be using Federal Vital Shok 180 Grain Trophy Bonded Jacketed Soft Point this year...I like the way it shoots, no experience with what it will do to a deer yet...I haven't decided to "break the rules" yet and shoot hardcast thru my Glock


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## 660griz (Oct 19, 2017)

ThatredneckguyJamie said:


> .I haven't decided to "break the rules" yet and shoot hardcast thru my Glock



A barrel that 'allows' you to shoot hard cast in the Glock is pretty inexpensive.


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## pacecars (Oct 19, 2017)

I have never had an issue shooting hard cast lead in any 10mm Glock


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## B. White (Oct 22, 2017)

For what it's worth, here is the entry hole for an Acme 200 gr hard cast flat point from this morning.  Poor shot, but no tracking.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 20, 2017)

I'm thinking of trying something else. I'm shooting the Underwood 180 xtps. 4 shots of mine on does, app 90lbs has done well although, none made it over 35 yards with a perfect shot, all pass throughs, none of mine started showing blood until after 20 yards, or more. Maybe I'm over thinking it because on the one hand, it performed perfect, on the other hand, I would like a quick starting blood trail. I guess I'm talking about a better ending wound channel. Based on the videos I have watched of gel test, the xtp opens then folds back almost 100%. I'm thinking of trying the Underwood Bonded jacked hollow point. The bonded usually getting less expansion, but for some reason, real results are showing more. Most test I have seen show that the pedals don't fold back 100% which will give a bigger wound channel. I'll try them and see if I get quicker blood.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 4, 2017)

No  luck this weekend wanting to try the bonded JHP 180 gr Underwood {Gold Dot Speer}. However, I did shoot it before I went to the woods just to make sure it would hit the same place as my xtp's. I was 1 inch low and left at 60yds. This was acceptable and could have been me. Then 100yds, I could not see my target well and shot where I thought it was behind my dot. I hit 4inches low and 3 left. Acceptable to go hunt without moving my sights, keeping my 180 gr xtp zero. Just knowing a little high and right. However....... The 100yd shot, it seemed as though the bullet did not hit square on the barrel. I am using a barrel as a target in front of backstop to create a warming burn barrel, rather than drilling holes. Also this load felt different than the xtp's. Less recoil, less noise, I'm not sure what was up. I will have to further test once I go back to the hunting cabin. And... Both holes were bigger than a 10mm. Is it opening that fast on impact? I have never shot a barrel before.


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