# Summertime .410 turkey gun project



## GLS (Jun 9, 2016)

It’s fiddling with guns time of the year for me until dove and bird doggin’ seasons.  My theory on turkey guns and loads is that I want the load, the tail, to wag the dog in the choice of a gun.  For turkeys, I’d rather have a $100 gun and $1,000 stockpile of TSS 9’s, than a $1,000 (and more) shotgun and $100 of the best lead load available.  I realize that lead can kill a turkey, but it is not as effective in subgauges at traditional turkey ranges as is the tungsten highest density shot.  I enjoy building turkey rigs out of inexpensive, hammerless, single-shot, break actions.  The two I have had success are the Yildiz .410 and Baikal MP-18, aka, IZh-18 or Remington Spartan 100 in 20 gauge.  A couple of weeks ago I impulse bought a Spartan 100 in .410.  It is a tub compared with the Yildiz’s 3 lbs., 3 oz.  At 5 lbs., 11 oz., it weighs more than my MP-18 in 20 gauge.   26" barrel.  All it needs is a red dot and trigger work to remove creep and maybe lighten the pull a tad.  Here's why it's heavier than the larger gauge:  Baikal, as did Savage with its break action 220 series, uses one action frame size for all gauges, at least in subgauges.  To accommodate a range of gauges, chamber thickness varies to keep the firing pin or transfer bar centered on the primer.   As Yildiz markets only the .410 in a single-shot, the frame is smaller (and made from aluminum alloy) than either the .410 Savage or Baikal and the chamber wall is .18” at minimum.  It is consequently lighter.   The Baikal .410’s minimum wall thickness at the chamber is .30” which tapers into the rest of the barrel quickly.  That’s a lot more steel.  My Savage 220 in 20 gauge is lighter than my Savage in .410 because of this.  Same with the Baikals.  The Baikal is built like a tank in comparison to the Yildiz.    The problem with the Baikal is availability.  It is made in Izhevsk, Russia, home of Russian small arms manufacturing, sport and military.  Baikal is owned by Kalashnikov Concern, the manufacturer of the AK for military purposes.  Along came Ukraine and out went the Baikal imports to the US.  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/b...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 The IZh-18 or MP-18 is one of the most widespread shotguns in the world.  Tough and reliable, like the AK.   Here’s one in use in Chile.  Pato has quite a bag with his many times around the block, taped together gun:







131 in the 10” at 40.  (Marks outside circle not counted) A tad patchy at 6 o'clock and 9 but I see no need to re-choke this one!  I have a “go-no go” choke gauge from Galazan.  This choke was so tight that the “full” choke section wouldn’t go in the barrel.  Not so with a couple of Yildiz factory choked guns I have in “full”.   I’ll try the brass hulls soon with this gun.  I see irony in hunting the All American wild turkey with a Russian gun, shooting Red Chinese shot, out of an Italian hull, hull roll crimped with a French "sertisseur", all aimed with a German Docter red dot. C'est la vie.  Gil


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## sman (Jun 9, 2016)

Cool little guns brought back to life by heavy but lethal little shot.


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## Toddmann (Jun 9, 2016)

I agree Gil. I like to find old single shots and turn them into turkey killers as well. I have recently purchased two 20 gauge single shots and each were less than $80. The one on the left is a Sears&Roebuck and the other is one that was made in Italy and imported by CVA. They both have full choke barrels. The CVA has a choke that measures .575. Haven't measured the other one yet. I have already sanded the Sears barrel and will probably do a full camo paint job on it. Haven't decided on the CVA yet.


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## GLS (Jun 9, 2016)

Toddman, those are neat guns.  The Italian one is similar to my Beretta Single-shot, but breaks open with a lever in front of the trigger guard like the Yildiz.  I've got three single shots that I will probably not fully convert.  Two Savages and the Beretta.  I almost feel as if I'd desecrate them by altering, especially the Beretta.  I have a clip on elongated fiber optic.  I may try that and see what poa/poi is with it.  It patterns beautifully.  That's the 1 oz. Kyle Smith load moving at 1235 fps.   I may try the gun on woodcock with spreader loads.  As is, it weighs 4.7 lbs and is a 2 3/4" 20 gauge made over 60 years ago.  As you can see, it hasn't been abused.  Gil


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## Toddmann (Jun 9, 2016)

Is that a model 412 or an FS-1? Looks like a 412. Fine gun either way Gil. Man I love old single shots.


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## Gut_Pile (Jun 9, 2016)

Todd, did you pick those up at adventure outdoors by chance?


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## GLS (Jun 9, 2016)

Todd, there are no model numbers on the gun.  Judging from photos, I would say it is the 412 based upon a few articles on the net.  It is a well-made and finished gun.   The date codes indicate mid-1950s.  Gil


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## Toddmann (Jun 9, 2016)

Gut_Pile said:


> Todd, did you pick those up at adventure outdoors by chance?



Got the CVA from an online auction site. The Sears was one I bought from a guy locally.


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## Toddmann (Jun 9, 2016)

GLS said:


> Todd, there are no model numbers on the gun.  Judging from photos, I would say it is the 412 based upon a few articles on the net.  It is a well-made and finished gun.   The date codes indicate mid-1950s.  Gil



Looks more like a 412 to me. It is a beauty. Wouldn't u love to have one just like it in a 28ga?


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## GLS (Jun 9, 2016)

I think I would like to have one in 24 gauge.  It was made in all gauges from 12 down to .410 (referred to incorrectly as 36 gauge).  32 gauge was also made.  Gil


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## Gaswamp (Jun 9, 2016)

Yall know you are underarming yourself with those single shooters....don't be a bad influence to these folks.


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## GLS (Jun 9, 2016)

Speak of  the devil.   Gil


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## ryanwhit (Jun 9, 2016)

Very nice Gil.


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## GLS (Jun 10, 2016)

Here's 1 5/16 oz. at 40 yards in the 10".  Not too shabby.


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## Gaswamp (Jun 10, 2016)

thanks for sharing Gil.  Todd, I believe that Sears is basically a Stevens 94, right?


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## Toddmann (Jun 10, 2016)

Gaswamp said:


> thanks for sharing Gil.  Todd, I believe that Sears is basically a Stevens 94, right?



Yes sir Joe you are correct. Both guns are very tight snd have probably spent most of their lives in the corner collectng dust and discoloration.


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## 01Foreman400 (Jun 21, 2016)

Very nice Gil.


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## Stickman1 (Aug 23, 2016)

All these high tech turkey guns chokes and shells... Millions spent engineering... You guys take a gun with half the pellet count and show us up lol!!!!! I'll bet you Gus don't even have screw in chokes


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## Nicodemus (Aug 23, 2016)

Fine looking single barrels, Gentlemen. I love single shots myself and need to start concentrating on 20 gauges to go along with the 12s that I have.


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## GLS (Aug 24, 2016)

Folks,

While speaking of nice single shots,  I have for years coveted this J.W. Tolley 16 ga. owned by a buddy.  I can’t pry it away from him and I've tried.  . It weighs 4.5 lbs, Damascus barrels and was made in 1895.  Truly a lovely gun and would be perfect for woodcock.  Gil













And here's another cool one owned by a Canadian I've corresponded with.  His comments are included.

"The Greener 10 was bought locally about 20 years ago from a friend. There is a bit of a story. the barrel is damascus and is actually 39 1/2" and had no choke although the proof marks were "not for ball". I suspected that the gun had been shortened, probably because of muzzle damage.The original barrel wall was over 60 thou with a bit of light frosting in the bore.I sent the barrel to Stan Baker, the barrel guru, in Seattle(may he rest in peace) and he backbored it by 20 thou and added the choke back at the muzzle.He also chambered it to 3 1/2". It is now a 9 bore and is almost chamberless. Weighs 9 1/2 lbs. Shoots excellent,tight patterns to 50 yds.It has not yet been nitro-proofed but I load my own 1 1/2 oz. bismuth loads at about 8500 PSI and with 1/4" chamber walls and the Jones underlever lock-up I have no concern regarding the ability to handle that load. I contacted Graham Greener and he confirmed that the gun was built in 1886 with a 42" barrel and was ordered by a Mr. Short !!! It handles and shoots very well and is a hoot to use for pass shooting geese."


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