# Silver Labs, to be or not to be?



## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

What do you think about the silver lab?  Should it be an accepted color variation in Labs?


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## hogdawg (Jul 20, 2010)

No!


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## NGaHunter (Jul 20, 2010)

No here too


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## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

another posting I found on the silver lab.  I believe this is where I stand on the point.
http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/information-silver-labradors-t7338426.html?


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## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

Oh Yea,  NO!!!!!!!!!!!
just in case that wasn't clear.


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## jessicay (Jul 20, 2010)

what is the point in this thread? You want to see a bunch of no's. well here you go no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no  If that is not enough let me know and I will put some more.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

really just trying to make people aware of what is happening to the labs that we grew up with.  Pretty soon we'll have to be checking pedigree's for silver-factored dogs.  Especially in the show lines.  They haven't made it to the field lines yet and hopefully never will.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

He does have white on his chest.  I do believe he might have some chessie in there somewhere.  He is also a rescue, neutered, and was found on the side of the road.  He is also a Senior Hunter passing 5 out of 6 tests.  He carries an ILP registration number.  Why do you ask?


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## K9SAR (Jul 20, 2010)

No.




Tim1980 said:


> He does have white on his chest.  I do believe he might have some chessie in there somewhere.  He is also a rescue, neutered, and was found on the side of the road.  He is also a Senior Hunter passing 5 out of 6 tests.  He carries an ILP registration number.  Why do you ask?



I was going to ask you which of your dogs was the one that you picked up as a rescue.  Guess that answers my question.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 20, 2010)

He's a great hunting buddy.  Hunts everything from quail, pheasant, chukar, rabbit, doves, ducks, and anything else I put him on.


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## K9SAR (Jul 21, 2010)

I thought the title of the thread was "Silver Labs, to be or not to be?"


You can't really use that thread as a basis especially when the ad reads like this:

"The mother is a chocolate female with papers(65 lbs). The male is a yellow lab(85 lbs) that I was told was pure bred. "


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## Tim1980 (Jul 21, 2010)

> You can't really use that thread as a basis especially when the ad reads like this:
> 
> "The mother is a chocolate female with papers(65 lbs). The male is a yellow lab(85 lbs) that I was told was pure bred. "



Agreed.  It also seems that he bred them intentionally, since he did have them penned up together.  Another case of someone breeding for all the wrong reasons.  I suppose he didn't know she was in heat, but I doubt it.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 21, 2010)

I also wouldn't breed a yellow and chocolate anyways.  There is to much chance to produce a dudley.


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## Meat Dog Mafia (Jul 21, 2010)

No for the Silver, BUT if silver is starting to show up Tim you think me and you could breed our dogs and come up with a camo tricolored Chocloate, Black and a little yellow for concealment. I hunt my dogs 40 days out of a 60day duck season, two or three weekends on doves, a few uplands hunts and 10 to 15 days in September Gooses hunting. Hey if people want silver who dont hunt, lets have cammo dogs for the serious hunter. Tim if we pull this off we can make millions, Maybe Not.


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## K9SAR (Jul 21, 2010)

Meat Dog Mafia said:


> No for the Silver, BUT if silver is starting to show up Tim you think me and you could breed our dogs and come up with a camo tricolored Chocloate, Black and a little yellow for concealment. I hunt my dogs 40 days out of a 60day duck season, two or three weekends on doves, a few uplands hunts and 10 to 15 days in September Gooses hunting. Hey if people want silver who dont hunt, lets have cammo dogs for the serious hunter. Tim if we pull this off we can make millions, Maybe Not.



Maybe you can sneak in some Golden Retriever blood (Mahoghany-coloration) or Irish Setter and have a hint of blaze orange on the dog, too ?


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## Tim1980 (Jul 21, 2010)

Man, now theres an idea.  A camo Lab w/ a orange blaze on its back!!  That would make us a million bucks!


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## Meat Dog Mafia (Jul 22, 2010)

Why not try. Then people would defend us like they do in the silver. Tim I agree with you. I grew up with labs all my life. Trained them for 10years and love the breed. I am all about keeping it pure. To many times you see HUNTING BLOOD LINE. NO pictures, no ribbons, no proof. I dont run hunt test, but I run hunting seasons all proof we have retrievers worhty to put hunting blood line in the paperwork. Dont let it bother you to much, silver,purple,bronze, camo what ever, I know what i want in a dog and silver is not it. I want a hard working, line toating, all out from 250yds to 10yds, steady as a rock and wants to be a part of the hunt. Show me that with a silver and I will be somewhat impressed. BecauseI can show you several that I have trained and own that are just that.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 22, 2010)

What's to think about?  I would choose neither!!  I don't give or take when it comes to choosing a dog I will hopefully have for 10 or 12 yrs.  I am very specific and know several responsible and ethical breeders.  I would choose a litter that has health clearances, good retrieve drive, stable temperments, correct color(black for me), and my size preference.  It's not just about color, but color is a factor.  In many breeds color is a distinguishing trait.  Weims, vizslas, and german short-hairs are very similar in type and size.  Vizsla's are usually a bit smaller, but the other without color differences would be very hard to tell apart.  With the exception of very knowledgeable breeders.  I am not crying about it, and I'm not jealous, just wanted to let people know what is happening to the most popular breed in america.  I put the true silver-only breeders in the same category as the labradoodle breeders.  Sorry that is my opinion.  And I haven't named any breeder names and I'm not naming any now.


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## K9SAR (Jul 22, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> this is what yall are doing don't you really think if something could be done it would be already. Maybe yall should run for some kind of office or something and put a stop to the silver labs all together if not quit whinning about it. It does you no good.



And once again, _someone_ has made this thread all about them instead of what the thread was actually about in the first place.

In case you didn't notice, anti-silver Lab (aka responsible breeders) members outnumber pro-silver Lab members.  

P.S. As for the question as to a puppy from which litter? Is that a trick question? My vote would also be neither.  Labrador Retrievers are one of the most popular if not THE most popular breed in the United States.  Why lower my standards when there are a plethora of responsible and ethical (those that don't lie about (or hide...or conveniently forget to tell someone) the genetics behind their dogs) breeders out there to choose from?


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## amstaff (Jul 22, 2010)

Color
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. *Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification.* A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification.

This is directly from the AKC Breed Standard............here is the link
http://www.akc.org/breeds/labrador_retriever/

scroll down the page.............


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## K9SAR (Jul 22, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> I guess I was trying to prove a point. Why don't you got to some of the litter listed here and say" I really think you should not be breeding" or you must title your dog before breeding. You say you have a problem with them but you don't seem to dislike them. When have you ever made a post like? THESE BREEDERS ON THIS FORUM ARE JUST A JOKE. You are targeting silver breeders only when there are worse stuff going on right under your nose. If this post was just to get for it or not than yall are  just a simple yes or no is what you asked for. I promise you this is my name or website gets brought up here again in one of your silver bashing post we will have problems. I copied the last post that was erased and saved it. I’m sure that could be viewed as slander. If you don't believe so I will send the whole post to a local lawyer. I am not here trying to sale you a silver lab. We quit posting here because anytime we did people like you and HAWG DOG would always post junk like this. If the puppy buyers want silver they will get a silver from me or someone else. Do you not think that the people buying puppies from us have not seen all of the post, like you have posted here and they still want a silver puppy. Are there other reasons someone might want a lab other than it hunting ability? Yes there are plenty. I really have no desire to get into the hunt test and field trials. My dogs are labs they have the same desire to retrieve and hunting ability as your dogs do. I just choose to not train them in that direction at this time. Is this forum that boring to you that you cannot find something else to talk about other than silver labs. Tim you stay on here more than anyone I have ever seen so I don't know how you train your dogs.



Just because _I_ disagree with the breeding practices of some of the people who advertise their litters here doesn't mean I'm going to stoop to name-calling and picking apart every little detail in their ad.  If I had a _real_ problem with anyone, I'd take it to PM...not post willy-nilly on a message board.  If I don't like a dog, I don't buy it.  If I don't like someone's breeding practices, I don't buy from them.  It's as easy as that.

As for people wanting a Lab for reasons other than hunting? There are reasons why I want a lab, and it's not for hunting purposes.  HOWEVER, it _is_ for working purposes (the Lab being a working dog and all.) I would _still _rather buy a Lab from someone who is responsible (OFA, CERF, etc.) and ethical (who, if I did a brief internet search, I wouldn't find a cached record of a breeder admitting to hiding the genetic background of their dog on a public message board) and who has hunting dogs, field trial dogs, working-in-some-other-facet dogs, etc. because *that particular Lab comes from a working background, and that's what _I_ look for.*  Also, an ethical breeder doesn't cater to the whims of people wanting a particular color of dog.  An ethical breeder sticks to the breed standards and breeds healthy and workable dogs and would say, "I'm sorry, I don't breed that color.  It's not in the correct breed standard, and that's what we strive for."  

You might want to check and see when this "topic" went off-topic (20 Jul 2010 1634)

If you want to get technical about legalities, something a person posted here _could _be considered _libel_, not slander.  It would cost several hundreds to thousands of dollars poured out to a Personal Injury attorney for them to find zero case whatsoever.  

When you attempt to pull a defamation claim against someone, you have to show that your reputation and business have been ruined by this individual's speech or a statement in writing.   You thanked a poster and admitted that because of all of this "advertising" (which was nothing but the name of a kennel that had silver Labs now or in the past) you sold three puppies.  In case you didn't realize, the last post was not about any particular kennel.  It was about persons who had bred or currently breed silver Labs.  

It's kind of hard to prove libel (or defamation of any sort) when the supposed injured party brags about selling additional puppies (aka not having their business ruined.) 

And that is all.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 23, 2010)

As I stated before, I am not posting any names or kennel names!!  I deleted the other topic because it got off topic.  You don't have to read or post to this thread.  And if you must know, I work a part-time job in the morning and train dogs in the afternoons.  That is why all my posts are usually in the morning, I don't even have internet at my house!! My job is boring and I get to spend waaay too much time on the computer!!
And I also reference the true silver only breeders.  So, I hope I have cleared things up.  Sorry if this thread offends anyone, but I do believe it is free-speech, as long as I'm not naming any names. 

I also believe  that K9sar has posted several threads about breeding and ethics.  We also covered most of them in these last two threads.


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## hogdawg (Jul 23, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> I guess I was trying to prove a point. Why don't you got to some of the litter listed here and say" I really think you should not be breeding" or you must title your dog before breeding. You say you have a problem with them but you don't seem to dislike them. When have you ever made a post like? THESE BREEDERS ON THIS FORUM ARE JUST A JOKE. You are targeting silver breeders only when there are worse stuff going on right under your nose. If this post was just to get for it or not than yall are  just a simple yes or no is what you asked for. I promise you this is my name or website gets brought up here again in one of your silver bashing post we will have problems. I copied the last post that was erased and saved it. I’m sure that could be viewed as slander. If you don't believe so I will send the whole post to a local lawyer. I am not here trying to sale you a silver lab. We quit posting here because anytime we did people like you and HAWG DOG would always post junk like this. If the puppy buyers want silver they will get a silver from me or someone else. Do you not think that the people buying puppies from us have not seen all of the post, like you have posted here and they still want a silver puppy. Are there other reasons someone might want a lab other than it hunting ability? Yes there are plenty. I really have no desire to get into the hunt test and field trials. My dogs are labs they have the same desire to retrieve and hunting ability as your dogs do. I just choose to not train them in that direction at this time. Is this forum that boring to you that you cannot find something else to talk about other than silver labs. Tim you stay on here more than anyone I have ever seen so I don't know how you train your dogs.



First of all, it's hogdawg, not hawgdog, and why are you calling me out?  Do you not understand why we post about silver labs?  Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it to educate people about these interbreeds that are being portrayed as pure bred, and maybe to voice my opinion a little  Does that mean that all of them are not going to buy one?  Of course not, but some of them will realize what's going on and not buy one.  And if I can convince someone(which I have done on more than one occasion)to not buy a silver lab, I feel like I have done the whole labrador community a favor.  

It's a little different breeding silvers and breeding pure bred dogs irresponsibly(without health clearances and not trying to better the breed).  Do I come down on irresponsible breeding too?  Of course I do, but not as hard as silvers because with silvers, not only are you breeding irresponsibly(breeding for color), but you are also breeding "labs" that aren't pure.

The fact is, that there will never be any hard physical evidence that silvers aren't pure bred, but just look at the genetic facts and the first silvers documented and even some today and explain to me how it is just not completely obvious that these dogs originated from breeding a weim to a lab.

On another note, one thing that was said in the thread that got deleted that made me absolutely sick and I hope I misunderstood, was that you will go to someone,who would never breed to a silver, with a silver factored Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- to breed, and try to hide the fact that the dog is silver factored?  Is this correct?  I sure hope not.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 23, 2010)

> First of all, it's hogdawg, not hawgdog, and why are you calling me out? Do you not understand why we post about silver labs? Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it to educate people about these interbreeds that are being portrayed as pure bred, and maybe to voice my opinion a little Does that mean that all of them are not going to buy one? Of course not, but some of them will realize what's going on and not buy one. And if I can convince someone(which I have done on more than one occasion)to not buy a silver lab, I feel like I have done the whole labrador community a favor.



Amen!! My thoughts exactly!!

And this is correct, I should have saved it myself.


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## Buck Nasty (Jul 23, 2010)

Silver Labs are Un-Amercian.....


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## Meat Dog Mafia (Jul 23, 2010)

Its getting to hot in hear for me I going to play in the waterfowl forum.


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## Buck Nasty (Jul 23, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> buck nasty your dogs has a little silver around his mouth.



Yeah....they had some gray hair....they were teenagers afterall!!


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## hogdawg (Jul 23, 2010)

Wow, 4 posts and no response...


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## Fatz (Jul 23, 2010)

If it is a fault, it should not be breed for.  If it shows up it should taking out of the gene pool.  My 2 cents!


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## ArmyTaco (Jul 25, 2010)

NO! and I hope a real breeder wouldnt breed for it. But how many real breeders are there really? Most are BYB as to the other post.


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## brownceluse (Jul 25, 2010)

I have a silver but after reading this thread I will have him put down!


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## brownceluse (Jul 26, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> brownceluse  if you really have one than you are crazy to put a dog down because of a few people's opinion.


I actually have a puppy from a silver. Daddy is Choc. I honesly didnt know that a silver wasnt a true lab. I wasnt looking to breed or anything just looking for a family pet and a duck, deer dog! All the pups came out black! All I can say is my dog is very sharp. His mother[silver] is one of the best dogs ive ever seen work. I  can tell you this my dog will be fixed as he will never be a daddy. I appreaciate the opinons of the this thread. I'm trully sorry that my kids fell in love with these puppys so I had to get one. I do beleive that these dogs are not true labs, but I really dont care as far as a hunting standpoint if the dog works who cares what it is. If a pooddle/ terrier would hunt I would hunt em! As far as breeding I dont think they should be here. When I gt my pup I knew mine will never repoduce so this dog is here and my kids love him. So dont beat me up too bad I just wanted to make the kids happy


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 26, 2010)

While I agree with this lady on this link it won't stop the existance of the Silver (or what was originally called a Blue) Labrador. So, I could care less.

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/silverlabs.html


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## hogdawg (Jul 26, 2010)

brownceluse said:


> I actually have a puppy from a silver. Daddy is Choc. I honesly didnt know that a silver wasnt a true lab. I wasnt looking to breed or anything just looking for a family pet and a duck, deer dog! All the pups came out black! All I can say is my dog is very sharp. His mother[silver] is one of the best dogs ive ever seen work. I  can tell you this my dog will be fixed as he will never be a daddy. I appreaciate the opinons of the this thread. I'm trully sorry that my kids fell in love with these puppys so I had to get one. I do beleive that these dogs are not true labs, but I really dont care as far as a hunting standpoint if the dog works who cares what it is. If a pooddle/ terrier would hunt I would hunt em! As far as breeding I dont think they should be here. When I gt my pup I knew mine will never repoduce so this dog is here and my kids love him. So dont beat me up too bad I just wanted to make the kids happy



Good for you for havin' your dog neutered.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 26, 2010)

brownceluse said:


> I actually have a puppy from a silver. Daddy is Choc. I honesly didnt know that a silver wasnt a true lab. I wasnt looking to breed or anything just looking for a family pet and a duck, deer dog! All the pups came out black! All I can say is my dog is very sharp. His mother[silver] is one of the best dogs ive ever seen work. I  can tell you this my dog will be fixed as he will never be a daddy. I appreaciate the opinons of the this thread. I'm trully sorry that my kids fell in love with these puppys so I had to get one. I do beleive that these dogs are not true labs, but I really dont care as far as a hunting standpoint if the dog works who cares what it is. If a pooddle/ terrier would hunt I would hunt em! As far as breeding I dont think they should be here. When I gt my pup I knew mine will never repoduce so this dog is here and my kids love him. So dont beat me up too bad I just wanted to make the kids happy



OK I wasn't going to post to this anymore but have to. You said the mom to your pup was silver and the dad was chocolate. Then all pups would have been chocolate unless the dad was a dilute carrier and then it would be half silver and half chocolate litter. So someone isn't telling the truth here. I know my genetic so someone prove me wrong.


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## brownceluse (Jul 26, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> OK I wasn't going to post to this anymore but have to. You said the mom to your pup was silver and the dad was chocolate. Then all pups would have been chocolate unless the dad was a dilute carrier and then it would be half silver and half chocolate litter. So someone isn't telling the truth here. I know my genetic so someone prove me wrong.



Im telling you what I was told! I just assumed that it went back to maybe like a dominate gene or something. Black would be the dominate gene right?


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## brownceluse (Jul 26, 2010)

After doing alittle research you are right. I guess I got ripped off!


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 26, 2010)

Sorry to let you fellas know but every dog on this planet was bread from wolves.  Also I have seen two black lab give birth to yellow, chocholate, and black lab puppies.  Without these breeding pracices many of you seem to despise we would simply have to use wolves as hunting dogs, but through trial, error and selective breeding we get dogs of different color, temperment, size and intelligence.  So my point is why should we stop now, a silver lab would be just as loyal smart and intelligent as any other and if you are hunting in a light snow it may be more camoufage.  So yes they should be recognized just like any other man made dog.


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm actually planning on breeding my registered chocholate lab with a registered chocholate lab which has the recessive silver or "blue" lab gene and the puppies will also have to be registered as chocholate labs. I will be proud to own one of these puppies.  So in short if you don't like man-made dogs then go get a cat


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 26, 2010)

oh yea but they have also been altered by man as well as any other domestic animal]


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 26, 2010)

hardwoodshall said:


> I'm actually planning on breeding my registered chocholate lab with a registered chocholate lab which has the recessive silver or "blue" lab gene and the puppies will also have to be registered as chocholate labs. I will be proud to own one of these puppies.  So in short if you don't like man-made dogs then go get a cat



I like you already  where have you been the past few weeks


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## brownceluse (Jul 26, 2010)

I feel like I have broken the law or something!!! I have a man made dog!!!  And hes a goodun too!


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 26, 2010)

they're made for man no matter their breed as long as us good old boys train em right then who cares their color, creed, breed or registration lets get them train up, dove season is commin soon and we all need a best friend.  All dogs can be good be it a lab, poodle or a labradoodle lets all take care and love for our dogs and enjoy our own breed no matter what these probable breeders think.  If they don't like silver labs its probably because they're breeders and don't have the genetics that bring an extra $800, and I really don't care I love my dog and no matter what color he is he's registered. These people are the same ones who, on the deer forum, harrass people for shootin legal deer who people are proud of but don't stand up to other peoples standards.


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## brownceluse (Jul 27, 2010)

hardwoodshall said:


> they're made for man no matter their breed as long as us good old boys train em right then who cares their color, creed, breed or registration lets get them train up, dove season is commin soon and we all need a best friend.  All dogs can be good be it a lab, poodle or a labradoodle lets all take care and love for our dogs and enjoy our own breed no matter what these probable breeders think.  If they don't like silver labs its probably because they're breeders and don't have the genetics that bring an extra $800, and I really don't care I love my dog and no matter what color he is he's registered. These people are the same ones who, on the deer forum, harrass people for shootin legal deer who people are proud of but don't stand up to other peoples standards.


I agree whole heartly I could care less what anyone thinks! I droped by here to stir the pot alittle. For that very reason because people have a hard time with you if you dont think like them! I love it! People are so full of themselves. Most dont even realize their doing it neither! I propbably shouldnt be a pot stirer, but dang these people make it too fun!


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## hogdawg (Jul 27, 2010)

hardwoodshall said:


> Also I have seen two black lab give birth to yellow, chocholate, and black lab puppies.  Without these breeding pracices many of you seem to despise we would simply have to use wolves as hunting dogs, but through trial, error and selective breeding we get dogs of different color, temperment, size and intelligence.  So my point is why should we stop now, a silver lab would be just as loyal smart and intelligent as any other and if you are hunting in a light snow it may be more camoufage.  So yes they should be recognized just like any other man made dog.



You don't get it.  I understand people have been crossing dogs to get new breeds for ages, but these dogs were crossed just to get a certain color, and are still being called pure.  These dogs are not pure labs.  They have weimaraner in their pedigree.  That is where the silver color comes from, IMO of course.  And that would be an educated one.



hardwoodshall said:


> I'm actually planning on breeding my registered chocholate lab with a registered chocholate lab which has the recessive silver or "blue" lab gene and the puppies will also have to be registered as chocholate labs. I will be proud to own one of these puppies.  So in short if you don't like man-made dogs then go get a cat



Do your research.  Get past the novelty of it all and look at it responsibly.  Answer me this, why are you going to breed your dog?



3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> I like you already  where have you been the past few weeks



I bet you do.  Still waiting on a response from you.



hardwoodshall said:


> If they don't like silver labs its probably because they're breeders and don't have the genetics that bring an extra $800,



no, it's probably because they care about the breed and hate seeing it be tainted.  silver labs bring alot of money because there are idiots out there who will pay lots of money for novelty


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 27, 2010)

hogdawg said:


> You don't get it.  I understand people have been crossing dogs to get new breeds for ages, but these dogs were crossed just to get a certain color, and are still being called pure.  These dogs are not pure labs.  They have weimaraner in their pedigree.  That is where the silver color comes from, IMO of course.  And that would be an educated one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have never used anyone’s males other than my own. I want say that it hasn't been done. I have purchased some really nice lines and bred myself but I am the owner of both the sire and the dam. To be honest I never even read your post. It’s still going to say the same hogwash you normally do so what’s the need. There is not 100% proof to back up what you are saying it is just the easiest route to take for yall. If it was proven 100% then the AKC would have to do something about it. They tested some of the early silver's and come up empty handed then. So you can't say that it happened to long ago now to prove it. They were there at the begging when the first few started showing up.


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## Perfection (Jul 27, 2010)

I just want to thank ya'll for opening my eyes up to the silver labradors.  I think they are beautiful, & if it weren't for ya'll talking about it I might never have seen one.   I am in the market for a lab pup now so I'm looking for a reputable breeder that is improving the breed & doing health clearances.  IMO the health clearances are much more important than the color of the dog.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 27, 2010)

I would be happy to help you in any way. Send me a PM if you would like.


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## K9SAR (Jul 27, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> I have never used anyone’s males other than my own.




 Don't know how you can "take a dog to them [to be bred]" and only ever use your own males.  




			
				3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI - "the other thread" said:
			
		

> I will say this taken a silver or a charcoal an expecting to breed to a champion your chances are slim someone would go for it. That why we take yellow,black,and chocolates to them that carry the dilute gene. Then the only person knowing they carry the dilute gene is us.


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## hogdawg (Jul 27, 2010)




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## Big Jeep Wrangler (Jul 27, 2010)

Perfection said:


> I just want to thank ya'll for opening my eyes up to the silver labradors.  I think they are beautiful, & if it weren't for ya'll talking about it I might never have seen one.   I am in the market for a lab pup now so I'm looking for a reputable breeder that is improving the breed & doing health clearances.  IMO the health clearances are much more important than the color of the dog.



If you are searching for a reputable breeder of silver labs you will not find one. Ever. A reputable breeder would realize what they are doing is breeding for novelty and not for the best interest of the breed. Along with that you are providing them with their outrageous amount of money that they request based upon a dog for looks not function.


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## brownceluse (Jul 27, 2010)

Last night I thought that the silvers shouldnt be here. But today Im glad they are here!!!!!! SILVER is the best looking lab!


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 27, 2010)

That's why " we "take yellow,black,and chocolates to them that carry the dilute gene. We means silver breeders like you said you may have misread it.


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 27, 2010)

Silvers are not a true breed yada yada yada.  I will say it again call it a novelty dog or not it is a recessive gene that has been promoted by man.  My wife also have a two pound white maltese and she's registered, is a novelty dog and was bread as such.  Moreso there are dark yellow labs, light yellow labs, black labs, chocholate labs, and white labs so did the ancients come across these colors in the wild; no, they were bred through generations and generations of gene promotion.  If you would like to keep the lab gene untainted you should fuss about breeding dogs with hip displasia not grey hairs.


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## brownceluse (Jul 27, 2010)

hardwoodshall said:


> Silvers are not a true breed yada yada yada.  I will say it again call it a novelty dog or not it is a recessive gene that has been promoted by man.  My wife also have a two pound white maltese and she's registered, is a novelty dog and was bread as such.  Moreso there are dark yellow labs, light yellow labs, black labs, chocholate labs, and white labs so did the ancients come across these colors in the wild; no, they were bred through generations and generations of gene promotion.  If you would like to keep the lab gene untainted you should fuss about breeding dogs with hip displasia not grey hairs.



Well said!!!!! These BREEDERS kill me!!!


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## hardwoodshall (Jul 27, 2010)

So the lesson I seem to be learning is that we should never promote recessive genes in dogs and that you should only be allowed to breed your dog if you are a breeder and are doing it for money. So I guess we should all just quit promoting recessive genes we find attractive because these "novelty" traits "taint" the breed.  Also I guess even though I want to continue my dog's blood line because I want the puppy I should just leave it to the breeders and get my dog neutered.  Well too bad.


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## jessicay (Jul 27, 2010)

hardwoodshall


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## K9SAR (Jul 28, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> That's why " we "take yellow,black,and chocolates to them that carry the dilute gene. We means silver breeders like you said you may have misread it.





			
				3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI - "the other thread" said:
			
		

> I will say this taken a silver or a charcoal an expecting to breed to a champion your chances are slim someone would go for it. That why we take yellow,black,and chocolates to them that carry the dilute gene. Then the only person knowing they carry the dilute gene is us.




_Lying is lying_, and I didn't misread it.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 28, 2010)

> Silvers are not a true breed yada yada yada. I will say it again call it a novelty dog or not it is a recessive gene that has been promoted by man. My wife also have a two pound white maltese and she's registered, is a novelty dog and was bread as such. Moreso there are dark yellow labs, light yellow labs, black labs, chocholate labs, and white labs so did the ancients come across these colors in the wild; no, they were bred through generations and generations of gene promotion. If you would like to keep the lab gene untainted you should fuss about breeding dogs with hip displasia not grey hairs.


Has nothing to do with being a true breed, has to do with being a certain, established breed.  
We do "fuss" about breeding dogs without health clearances!!
And the breed has been established for over a hundred years.  If it were a new breed than sure you could see having new variations popping up.   It is not a new breed and the breed standards are not changing because some breeders are breeding for "rare" colors.  Oh, and the point is, it is a "new" mixed breed, not one that has been refined and standardized by years and years of quality breeding.  Labradoodles are a new breed and they are called by a different name.   
If you want to buy a silver lab, that is your choice.  



> Well said!!!!! These BREEDERS kill me!!!



  We are not breeders, I have whelped one litter in my lifetime.  Just people who care about the future of our favorite breed.
And I'm also not name calling or degrading other members, just stating my opinions as a dog person.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 28, 2010)

You are the type girl that picks a few words out of the bible too. To suite your life style. "  OH THE DRINK WINE IN THE BIBLE" so it is ok for me to be an alcoholic. I am the one who wrote it so I know what I was trying to say. Anyway most stud owner have certain contract they would like the girls to have. As long as they meet those guidelines what is the big deal.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 28, 2010)

Tim glad you are back with us. I knew you couldn't stay away either.


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## Tim1980 (Jul 28, 2010)

Nope, if you knew me, (which you don't) you would know that I practice what I preach.  I'm a younger guy raised old school.  I don't take advantage of people and I *always try to do right by other folks.*  Sorry if you don't agree.  My dad always said growing up "son, leaving out part of the truth is still lying!"  It's actually called lying by omission.  So when you go to someone and aren't honest about *all* the facts, it is still lying.


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## K9SAR (Jul 28, 2010)

3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> You are the type guy that picks a few words out of the bible too. To suite your life style. "  OH THE DRINK WINE IN THE BIBLE" so it is ok for me to be an alcoholic. I am the one who wrote it so I know what I was trying to say. Anyway most stud owner have certain contract they would like the girls to have. As long as they meet those guidelines what is the big deal.



You might consider getting a few of your "facts" right:

1) I am not a "guy."  

2) I copied and pasted word-for-word what was written by you.  What was said was, basically, that you (whether that be you directly or you as a whole group) lie.  Omitting the truth or neglecting to tell people something you know to be true because you know it would have a negative outcome otherwise are both means of lying.  

3) 





3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI said:


> As long as they meet those guidelines what is the big deal.



It doesn't make a good impression on anyone's part when an individual knowingly withholds important information.  If it wasn't a big deal, then you (once again, you being "yourself or a whole group") wouldn't be hiding that information (and admitting to doing so) in the first place.  

4) How many people are going to buy a dog from someone who admits to lying just to get their dog bred? (of course "someone" means anyone who lies in this case, no one in particular since we're speaking in the general sense)  What else does the person lie about when it comes to their dogs? 

4) Unless you _personally_ know with whom you're speaking and have _facts_ with which to base a personal attack, refrain from personal attacks in the future.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 28, 2010)

Ok i edited my post so it say's girl now. I will say it again I have never used an out side stud. Some of our fellow breeders that I know have been able to use outside studs. I am to chicken to be honest.


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## hogdawg (Jul 28, 2010)

Bambi, Bambi, Bambi, So now you're going back on what you said.  That's cool, we all know what you were "trying" to say I feel sure that I can speak for most people when I say this;  If I was part of a group that was involved in a specific act(not to mention a dishonest one), but I had personally never done it, I would never say "we" do this.  I would say "some of the group" does this, or "particular members of the group" do this.  Either way, it's OK to you and that's disturbing.  Wonder if all silver breeders uphold the same ethical standards that you do?  Obviously so.


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## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Jul 28, 2010)

All of the improvement dilute breeder are trying to do is improve our lines. That is what breeding is all about right. Improve what you have.


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## secondseason (Jul 28, 2010)

enough is enough

looks like silver labs will be added to the things that we just can't talk about like civilized adults.


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