# NGA Mountain WMAS



## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

What is it going to take to get USFS and DNR to understand we need help for few deer we have


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## NGa.MtnHunter (Dec 8, 2013)

Have been talking about the same thing in this thread.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=782187


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## hoochman2 (Dec 8, 2013)

I dont know why they want start to do things differently. maybe some clear cutting and planting to give them something to eat when the acorn crop fails (like this year). just my 2 cents.


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## Unicoidawg (Dec 8, 2013)

Some clearcuts and more burns would do wonders for the wildlife in the Mountains. Old growth forest is pretty to look at, but it ain't much help for feeding the natives.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

I am thinking chattahoochee nf is only for camping; bike riding;sight seeing and hunters are paying for it


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

Before i get hammered i dont think theres nothing wrong with camping, bike riding. But i think the USFS could get back off main roads an cut some timber.Are maybe recut some of the old clear cuts. I know in towns co in early 2000 they cut some warber bird habit and deer, grouse, turkeys are using it good


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 8, 2013)

All of us mountain hunters should get together along with everyone we know and try to get together a meeting with the us forest service and try to get some timber cutting and controlled burns going. All acres designated as wilderness are out of the picture but there's still a ton of forest service land that's not. I think it's a worthy effort. I'm not into politics but surely with enough of the right folks we could get something going. Similar to the ruffled grouse society. They are after the same management that would help improve deer in the mountains. I'm in but not sure where to start. Any ideas?


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## Paint Brush (Dec 8, 2013)

I have already brought some of these ideas to DNR at the gainsville meeting. Which I was the only one present for the last hour and a half. Habitat is a big problem but a big concern with me is fawn survival. In my opinion that's what got us in trouble to start with. The doe harvest in the last 10 years has been minimal on the mtn wmas yet the population has plummeted. You cant put it on mast failier because the last 7 years have been above average. Its gona take a lot of doing on a lot of people to bring the deer back. Jts just a matter of who is willing to do it,


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 8, 2013)

Did the dnr seem to care at all? I'm afraid hooch and chestate, swallows creek and a few others will follow burton wma. I agree about the fawns. I really believe bear have a big role in lack of fawns.


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## tonyrittenhouse (Dec 8, 2013)

tree cutter 08 said:


> All of us mountain hunters should get together along with everyone we know and try to get together a meeting with the us forest service and try to get some timber cutting and controlled burns going. All acres designated as wilderness are out of the picture but there's still a ton of forest service land that's not. I think it's a worthy effort. I'm not into politics but surely with enough of the right folks we could get something going. Similar to the ruffled grouse society. They are after the same management that would help improve deer in the mountains. I'm in but not sure where to start. Any ideas?


I am in with you. While hunting pigeon mtn. and johns this year I noticed that they plowed a lot of the food plots. It looked like they done it just before the hunts. They must have the equipment to mow and plow the fields if it is seed they need I would be willing to buy and donate a bag of seed for them to plant. I bet a lot of hunters would be willing to do this.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

I wish we could get a group of people to have a meeting with usfs and stay with it to something got done THE SQUEAKEST WHEEL GETS THE OIL . I wonder if we had the hunting now as back in 1970- 1980 how much money would the NGcounties be getting


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

Most people who hunt mountain wma are wanting a 3-4 year buck. There is to many things after a fawn. Bears Coyote  Hogs Bobcats Foxes Dogs and i also think owls catch alot of fawns so i dont see that we to hunt does maybe in a draw hunt.


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## Paint Brush (Dec 8, 2013)

tree cutter 08 said:


> Did the dnr seem to care at all? I'm afraid hooch and chestate, swallows creek and a few others will follow burton wma. I agree about the fawns. I really believe bear have a big role in lack of fawns.



 Yes they were ready to hear from the mtn hunters. You are correct on the bear problem I have been telling DNR for 10 years it was happening. They are slow to listen to us ole boys that have spent our entire life hunting these mtns.  The big problem is I don't think we have enough deer left for them to recover if all hunting were stopped. Have you ever heard of a predator pit?  As far as habitat I suggested we re cut most of the hard wood cuts that was made in the 70s. They regenerated in maple,popular and chestnut oak. None of which will ever be beneficial to wild life or timber. What chestnut oak that is there are a result of sprouts off of the stump and will never have value if it did mature. 
 Now the cuts are standing in hard wood pulp wood for the most part. Most of the units are inaccessible for tractor trailers and with this small stem wood you have to cut and haul fast to make any money at it. Not much of it can be cut with a cutter or drug with a grapple skidder. Theirs not many left that haul on 10 wheelers and cut and bulk with a saw and use a cable skidder.
 Nothing is impossible and if we don't do something the very FIRST place in Georgia to have a deer season will be the first to lose it. WHAT A SHAME THAT WOULD BE.


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## GA DAWG (Dec 8, 2013)

It's bad times coming. Should I say worse times.  They want do a thing until th deer are plum gone. Just like they didn't about the expanding exploding bear population.  They still close it a month to early


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## Paint Brush (Dec 8, 2013)

GA DAWG said:


> It's bad times coming. Should I say worse times.  They want do a thing until th deer are plum gone. Just like they didn't about the expanding exploding bear population.  They still close it a month to early



 Not if we go about it right. You ever seen a pack of fiest on a bear, nothing can stand that very long. LOL


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 8, 2013)

I agree about the quality of what's in the clear cuts. A lot of loggers have went out on smaller scale and it's hard to come out in the rough ground cutting junk wood. There is some mighty fine timber in the mountains that needs to be cut. A lot of huge white pine timber is mature as it's going to get but a lot of its on wilderness land.


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## 35 Whelen (Dec 8, 2013)

Here is what you would be up against:

http://www.southernenvironment.org/programs/


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## whitetailfreak (Dec 8, 2013)

Unicoidawg said:


> Some clearcuts and more burns would do wonders for the wildlife in the Mountains. Old growth forest is pretty to look at, but it ain't much help for feeding the natives.



This^^^^^^^^^^


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## GA DAWG (Dec 8, 2013)

Its the federal gov that controls the NF. We'd have to grt them allow logging again.


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks 35. First thing I saw when I went to website was the 60 attorneys they have work with them. I'm sorry if I offend anyone but that's the last thing we need in this situation. We educated in law but lack of education in land management. To many people fighting for something they don't understand and unwilling to see others point of view and interest. Public land is just that. It's for everyone to use and enjoy. Be it bike riding, camping, hiking, hunting and fishing. We have just as much right to use it and manage it for hunting as they do hiking and sight seeing. We pay taxes just the same


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes 35 whelen i know the hunters are up against it. Maybe someone will come up something


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## biggdogg (Dec 8, 2013)

hoochman2 said:


> I dont know why they want start to do things differently. maybe some clear cutting and planting to give them something to eat when the acorn crop fails (like this year). just my 2 cents.



Won't happen. Tree huggin liberals have pressured the .gov into stopping all logging on federal lands. It's been that way for years. The only way you'll see a clearcut anymore is if there is something like a beetle infestation that threatens the forest. Even then, they will only allow the affected area to be cut.


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## 35 Whelen (Dec 8, 2013)

Radical Environmentalism = Green is the new Red


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 8, 2013)

Why can't the gov be pressured back into it?


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## hoochman2 (Dec 9, 2013)

im willing to stand with anyone about getting something done. the worst thing we can do is nothing. I dont want to see chattahoochee, swallows creek,chestatee or any other of our mtn wma's go away like lake burton did.


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 9, 2013)

Me neither, called the forest service office this morning but got a voice mail. We'll see if I get a call back.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 9, 2013)

I wonder if we need get involved in the Ruffed Grouse Society or maybe American Chestnut Foundation. USFS are planting some seedling around in secluded areas in Nga


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## hoochman2 (Dec 9, 2013)

hey biggdog I think we can get some cutting done they were cutting on chattahoochee last year.we just need more,and in more places. top of georgia we will get involved with any group that will help our wildlife for the better.


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## NGa.MtnHunter (Dec 9, 2013)

I agree with whats been posted, habitat is a big part of it but laying off the doe killing for several years would help a whole lot and on some of these WMA's it wouldnt hurt to just have bear and hog hunts for a few years and no deer hunts.


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## tonyrittenhouse (Dec 9, 2013)

I know they have been cutting timber in Chattooga county GA. for the last couple of years on the Chattahoochee National Forest land. They have also done some burns. It looks like if they could cut on a small part of the national forest they could on the rest of it also.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 9, 2013)

I am all for more bear hog hunts maybe some trophy deer hunts but if they would have some firearm bear hunts early sept might help


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 9, 2013)

Where i hunt is around 3000 ft there was alot of red oaks early but the trees are broke all to pieces they wont have acorns for years


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## hoochman2 (Dec 10, 2013)

Yes I agree with cutting out all the doe killing in north georgia for a long time.They have done that on the wmas I hunt except during bow season.And yes top of georgia all the red oaks and black oaks that had acorns early are broken very badly from the bears, deer and turkeys dont have a chance to get any of them.We need more bear, hog and coyote killins!


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 10, 2013)

Finally got through to someone at fs office. They said only timber that is going to be cut is dying or storm damaged timber. They are scared to try to get anything done. He said absolutely no more clear cutting. They don't care about wildlife. I say start ringing the phones off the hook and tell them that we need to do something. 770 297 3000. I'm going to call dnr now and see what they say. If they had 1000 calls a day reguarding the same thing something would give


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 10, 2013)

What district were you talking to tree cutter oh how i wish we could get a 1000 people involed.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 10, 2013)

This post has had 537 views so we have people looking.we need  the hunters from down south to get on this wagon.Alot of them has summer homes here. And probably would hunt here if things were better.Alot of leases prices have got out of hand and the USFS has around a million acres to hunt for under a 100 dollars


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 10, 2013)

I believe i read somewhere that Georgia sells more non resident license then any other state.


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## Top of Georgia (Dec 10, 2013)

How would you get the records of the hunts on mountain wmas during 1970- 1980 or if it is even possible.I bet that would be eye poping


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 10, 2013)

Yes it would. I saw one from a hunt in late 70's on hooch and I didn't hardly believe it. That's before my time but would have loved to been there. 

Gainesville office I believe. Everyone reading this should call and continue to call. They guy I talked to was halfway shocked that I suggested more timber cutting. I guarentee u more tree huggers voice there opinion about the logging going on then us.


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## tr21 (Dec 10, 2013)

tonyrittenhouse said:


> I am in with you. While hunting pigeon mtn. and johns this year I noticed that they plowed a lot of the food plots. It looked like they done it just before the hunts. They must have the equipment to mow and plow the fields if it is seed they need I would be willing to buy and donate a bag of seed for them to plant. I bet a lot of hunters would be willing to do this.



you can do that by leaving it at the check stations. but I think that the problem is fertilizer. the prices have gone crazy. and if you get to know the area manager you can sign up as a volunteer and help them out.they also get tax dollars from the feds. for your volunteer hours which helps too.


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## hoochman2 (Dec 11, 2013)

please everyone call your local dnr office's or forest service office. we also could attend the dnr meetings and vioce our opinion.


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## Meat Hunter (Dec 14, 2013)

*My two cents*

I agree that the tree "huggers" are bent on removing hunting from the vocabulary of America. The USFS has indeed been sued many times by progressive left leaning groups. Most of these people never go to the forest but are rabidly twisted to legislate the rest of us out of the woods. Most of the the public land in this state is under managed first of all by the state which is broke and secondly by Federal government which is in my opinion sympathetic to the left agenda. Again in my opinion, the Federal government has an agenda to incrementally limit hunter access and opportunity. I recently read an article from a California researcher who makes the claim that lead bullets are the top condor threat. Lead bullets in the environment left by hunters. Not that a California condor has ever been a game species but the lead left in the environment by hunters! Now they want to ban lead bullets!( See NPR) I did a little further research and found that this same researcher did a study on lead paint some 15 years earlier and made the same conclusion. Lead paint not lead bullets. These people lie and twist the truth for their advantage. The media then picks it up and now you have the non hunting public wanting to ban lead bullets. Also see Green bullets for the US Army. You think our friends the Red Chinese or the Russian's are worried about lead free bullets? Just like no tree cutting is just idiotic, most of the forests here in the east have been cut for over three hundred years, and many of the pine forests were planted for a cash crop to help local rural communities for  jobs years ago. Now they manage the forest for equestrians and mountain bikes, red cock-added wood peckers and bald eagles. What about the deer and turkey or the bob tailed quail? They want to put wolves in the forest and have done so with devastating results in other states. Who do you think is winning this battle? Someone once said liberalism is a mental disorder, I totally agree.   So what to do? Call your elected official's tell them how you feel, it does matter. Take a kid hunting or fishing. Join the NRA and organize. Vote ! do you know how many people do not vote? or tell you why they are not in one of the organizations that protect gun ownership. Do not be silent! The next time someone tells you about gun control or lead free bullets let them have it with the facts. The people we are fighting are well organized, funded and see the world as a place for them alone to change and make nice so we can all live in a pain free feminized Utopian world.  We have an up hill battle at best but we must fight them!


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## Paint Brush (Dec 15, 2013)

hoochman2 said:


> hey biggdog I think we can get some cutting done they were cutting on chattahoochee last year.we just need more,and in more places. top of georgia we will get involved with any group that will help our wildlife for the better.



 The unit that was cut was a thinning in an old clear cut from the 70s. The remaining stand is mostley white pine. I understand it has a burn rotation planned for it also.  We need hard browse to help the deer and grouse. Cutting timber takes a lot of thought and planning for the now and the future, if it is to benefit wild life. We don't have to do complete clear cuts a heavy thinning or a shelter wood unit will help wild life. The main concern is generate new browse. The USFS has internal issues that I wont get into here but it is hampering timber sales IMO and must be resolved to move forward.  Dnr has to be more pro active on these wma,s . I hunted the last hunt on chattahooche this week and did take a deer. They are relying on the food plots this year and the number of plots that have nothing in them is un acceptable to me. Dnr knew we had a mast failure and did not act on it. These plots could have had wheat or rye drilled into them at a minimal cost but reaped maximum benefits. Taking care of this resource takes planning and we aren't doing it plain and simple.


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## The mtn man (Dec 18, 2013)

Guys, I know what your going through, your woods roll right into ours,I can see Ga woods from my house, (Charlies Creek),(Upper Hightower), we are complaining about the same issues, the only difference is this, something I never thought I would get to say, we have more deer that you do now,We don't have a big population, but I honestly would feel more confident deer hunting on this side of the line, Your dnr has allowed the public to decimate the does, we have bear hunting with dogs, we don't have wma's, it's all open the whole season, except no bear hunting in the bear sanctuaries,we also have a 3 week gun season, I think shutting down doe days and shortening your gun season would be a good start.There are some folks up here that would be glad to join you in your fight, especially the grouse hunters.You guys be careful asking for dog hunting for bears, You just might get what you ask for, not saying it's all bad, but we have some real problems up here with it, and I'm not talking about the dogs either, you wouldn't believe the army that comes in here.


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## Paint Brush (Dec 18, 2013)

I hear ya on the bear dogging issue, how many deer do those dogs run down every year? I gave them a piece of my mind about letting dogs run bear in the spring time, just before does drop the fawns. I suggest we have a September gun season that's when to put a dent in the population. Back to the habitat we cant say there has been nothing done to improve it. Has any one thought how many acres mother nature cleared the last few years. Tornados and fire have done our job on chatt and chestatee still it hasent raised the population.


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 18, 2013)

That tornado damage ought to be good in few more yrs. We do need to address the bear situation a little more. September gun hunt is a good idea. I would like to see 0 doe days on wmas and national forest until we can see further. May sound extreme but restocking would definatly benifet a few areas.


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## The mtn man (Dec 19, 2013)

Paint brush , has made a good point concerning bear hunting with dogs, Don't take this the wrong way, these guys really enjoy their sport, it has a long standing tradition here, I have enjoyed it myself, but he is right, because I have seen it, some hunters don't bother having real bear dogs, they are run anything dogs, we have found a lot of deer ran to death, from 20 houds on there tails, last year I knew of 2 big bucks that were caught by bear dogs that had to be put down, I personally had to put a doe down that was caught, all of them had their hindquarters severely damaged and their noses were chewed off, this aint South ga. we don't have the same terrain, dogs will litteraly run a deer to death in these mtns. I think a short maybe 3-5 day bear dog season, could potentially help with bears, but you guys be careful asking for a dog bear season.I know alot of you don't agree with me, but I still think a closely regulated bear bait season, is the answer for N ga. would have to be so many miles from developed areas thou and archery only.


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## hoochman2 (Dec 19, 2013)

yeah the dog hunts are a bad idea I think.


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## Bkeepr (Dec 19, 2013)

Lake Russell WMA has a PW hunt starting tomorrow, either sex.  I remember back in the mid 90's they used to have 50 deer per square mile.  I have a book about hunting Georgia public land published at that time and it is mentioned in there, too.  Then came the coyotes and the illegally introduced hogs, and the blue tongue disease...

I am bringing a fawn distress call to try out on the hunt!


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## The mtn man (Dec 19, 2013)

Bkeepr said:


> Lake Russell WMA has a PW hunt starting tomorrow, either sex.  I remember back in the mid 90's they used to have 50 deer per square mile.  I have a book about hunting Georgia public land published at that time and it is mentioned in there, too.  Then came the coyotes and the illegally introduced hogs, and the blue tongue disease...
> 
> I am bringing a fawn distress call to try out on the hunt!



I can remember back in the early 90s, some friends from Towns county took me down to Russell on a hunt they had, being from WNC, I thought I had done died and woke up in the deer promise land, to be honest I wouldn't waste my gas driving down there now, it sure is a shame, I hate it for yall.


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 19, 2013)

The thing about Russel is you think your in deer paradise compared to the other Mt wmas around here. Its getting worse every year.


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## The mtn man (Dec 20, 2013)

Yea, I agree, and DNR wants me as a non res. to pay an extra $80 for a wma permit to hunt Swallows creek or Chatahoochee,or even Dukes creek, LOL.Some Ga dnr officials have got some soul searching to do.Like I said, you and some others may have to start coming over here to hunt with us across the state line, I am convinced we have more deer than you do now.And that's bad.


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## Bkeepr (Dec 22, 2013)

Back from the Lake Russell PW hunt.  I saw 10 hogs.  Missed one trying to shoot it in the head, the rest were out of muzzle loader range.  Saw a bear tree or two but no recent, good sign.  Saw buck sign but didn't see any deer.  Had one blow at me walking in one morning.  When I went by the check station there were no hogs checked out, 7 does and 6 little bucks.  Almost all of the deer were fawns of this year.


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## Mark R (Dec 22, 2013)

Paint Brush said:


> I have already brought some of these ideas to DNR at the gainsville meeting. Which I was the only one present for the last hour and a half. Habitat is a big problem but a big concern with me is fawn survival. In my opinion that's what got us in trouble to start with. The doe harvest in the last 10 years has been minimal on the mtn wmas yet the population has plummeted. You cant put it on mast failier because the last 7 years have been above average. Its gona take a lot of doing on a lot of people to bring the deer back. Jts just a matter of who is willing to do it,



he was the only one there ! if it was a anti hunting or enviromentalist meeting probly wouldve been bunches there . funny how the green leftist get it done and we the people struggle . i talked to a ranger in the field an when i mentioned cutting he acted like i cursed or something .


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## The mtn man (Dec 24, 2013)

I have a buddy, who is a member of this forum, that works for FS, He could keep us informed of meetings, for public input, he works NC though, across Ga. line, I think we need to keep at them on both sides of the line though,from talking to him, FS employees hands are tied, they agree with us on this issue,


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## Bkeepr (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeah they are not even having a January hunt at Warwoman, too few deer...


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## tree cutter 08 (Dec 24, 2013)

No late hunts on any wmas this yr I noticed. Only hunted hooch and Russel this yr due to lack of acorns.


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## The mtn man (Dec 26, 2013)

thicketbuster said:


> he was the only one there ! if it was a anti hunting or enviromentalist meeting probly wouldve been bunches there . funny how the green leftist get it done and we the people struggle . i talked to a ranger in the field an when i mentioned cutting he acted like i cursed or something .



Well your right, we the people are always busy paying our own way (working), the environmentalists, anti whatevers,tree huggers, peta, they have all the time in the world, alot of them only have to go to the mailbox to get paid.This will get us all in the end.If it's only showing up to show a presents, we need to start standing up or we are going to lose.We need to inform each other of public meetings and organize us all going together on this forum be it N. ga or Wnc, if we stick together and make noise at the meetings they have to listen eventually.Thats what our opposition does, why can't we.


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## Top of Georgia (Jan 4, 2014)

If someone hears of some meetings post it or someone we can email


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## fairplayboy (Jan 11, 2014)

This a national problem on our national forests. They need to be thinned to create an enviroment for deer habitat.


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Jan 12, 2014)

fairplayboy said:


> This a national problem on our national forests. They need to be thinned to create an enviroment for deer habitat.



I agree. What I THINK the root of the problem is that select cuts and limited harvest get confused with clear cutting or "slash & burn". 

The evidence of this can be seen in numerous areas with old growth and the lack of understory (and therefore deer) present. Or, am I missing something????


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## The mtn man (Jan 13, 2014)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> I agree. What I THINK the root of the problem is that select cuts and limited harvest get confused with clear cutting or "slash & burn".
> 
> The evidence of this can be seen in numerous areas with old growth and the lack of understory (and therefore deer) present. Or, am I missing something????



I think I understand what you meant, and yes the problem is mature forests, with no undergrowth, as far as our mtns. the mtn ivy is taking over, these are good cover but no beneficial food source.One other problem is FS thinks they have to get an astronimical bid for the timber that does get cut, with all the epa regs. and timber prices alot of loggers don't want it.They should give it away if necassary for no other reason than to create wildlife habitat.We have some of the best hardwood timber there is, we should be exploiting this recourse, for reasons other than wildlife habitat, it is such a waste.


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