# Being a Christian and a Freemason



## Ebo Walker

I have been a Freemason, scottish rite since the mid 70's and was recently saved a few years back. 

I have been under conviction for going to Lodge meetings for several years now and rarely attend. I was given some literature about the Lodge and being a Christian and after a lot of praying and soul searching have come to the point that I realize a born again Christian can have no part of the Lodge. Removing myself from the Lodge has caused some problems between me and some of my Lodge friends, two of which are both elders in a local church.  I am shunned by them in social gatherings, and even at church.

How can someone be a member of the Lodge, knowing how it teaches that "god" is ambiguous and "whatever to whomever"?

If anyone has any advice or similar stories I would love to hear them.


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## thedeacon

Brother, this is something that I can't help you with in words because I have never been in that situation. I know nothing of the teachings of the freemasons or their beliefs. 

I can say though that you need to follow your heart with the help of the Holy Spirit, focuse on God and pray to him through Jesus your savior. Don't worry about those that turn from you because you are doing what you feel in your heart is right to please God.

I applaud you and will put you in my prayers.


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## rjcruiser

Hmm....you should search freemason in this forum.  I think you'd find a rather interesting thread that has both sides of the story.


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## Sargent

How does it differ from the Jaycees?

Or from my college fraternity?


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## Lowjack

You can't served both God and Mammon


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## Ebo Walker

Lowjack said:


> You can't served both God and Mammon




Amen!

God says he is a jealous God, yet as a Mason I took an oath to refer to ambiguous God that could be Buddhist, Muslim,etc, etc. And we were not allowed to mention Christ.

As I got to studying the roots of Freemasonry, I realized it come from the occult and other false religions.

We as Masons were told to tell people the Lodge wasn't a "Religion", yet our forefathers in the Lodge openly claimed it was the most supreme of Religions.

Within a week of being saved I realized that I couldn't be a part of this any longer. Like other vices I had in my life, it was a hard habit to break from but I couldnt be a part of it and be true to Jesus and  the Bible.

I am bothered by the many good friends and people in the Lodge who are led astray by it and see it as their way to "salvation" because they pretend to serve some mystical,  unnamed "god".  My grandfather never darkened the door of a church but claimed he was as moral and righteous as any "churchgoer" because of his ties to the Lodge.

I feel God is wanting me to speak out on this and make it a mission of mine to warn and save folks entrapped and blinded by this cult. Especially those in the church who also are in the Lodge.


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## earl

You will be missing out on the fine things that they do .


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## Ebo Walker

earl said:


> You will be missing out on the fine things that they do .



There is nothing "finer" than being true to God and My Savior. Other than a couple thousand dollars we raised every year at a bluegrass festival I cant recall any money we made for the community.

My Salvation and being true to Christ is much more rewarding to me and my community.


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## King Fisher

1 corinthians ch 2; 14-16


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## BeenHuntn

Luke 15:18-40 - 

 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 

 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 

 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 

 21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 

 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 

 23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 

 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 

 25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. 

 26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 

 27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. 

 28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. 

 29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 

 30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 

 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 

 32 *It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.*

heaven is rejoicing!


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## dawg2

Ohlordy...youhavenoideawhatthesethreadsstartonhere.....


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## Ebo Walker

dawg2 said:


> Ohlordy...youhavenoideawhatthesethreadsstartonhere.....



So I have been told Dawg2.

If people are Christians and claim to follow the Bible and the teachings of Christ then they cant logically and Scripturally defend their allegiance of the Lodge. I know, I tried for several years to do both. You cant and be true to God.

If they aren't Christians then I urge them to go where they can hear some good preaching and sound Bible teaching and get saved before it is too late.


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## redneckcamo

Lowjack said:


> You can't served both God and Mammon



very true !


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## ddd-shooter

My advice: stand fast in the Lord and don't ever turn from what the Holy Spirit has convicted you of. 
Stay strong, no matter what pressures come!


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## MudDucker

If you are convicted of this, then stand firm.

However, be careful not to be judgmental of others.


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## Sargent

Sargent said:


> How does it differ from the Jaycees?
> 
> Or from my college fraternity?


 
I would really like some other thoughts about this.

Other than secrecy (which isn't a sin), what is the difference?


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## quackwacker

i dont worship or serve anyone in the lodge.  I do however enjoy the fellowship with my brothers and the work we do every year to raise 10's of thousands of dollars for our community.  We just two weeks ago gave away almost 30,000 dollars to help charity!

I do however serve a risen Savior!


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## Tim L

earl said:


> You will be missing out on the fine things that they do .



What do they do?


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## earl

Google is your friend. I am not a Mason ,but have family who are.


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## 1john4:4

ddd-shooter said:


> My advice: stand fast in the Lord and don't ever turn from what the Holy Spirit has convicted you of.
> Stay strong, no matter what pressures come!




You might as well end this thread right here on this one!!! It don't get any better than this right here! Excellent post


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## Ebo Walker

Please keep my family and I in your prayers.


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## tomtlb66

You are in my prayers. My father-in-law was a Mason also. I don't know their beliefs and all I am saying if God convicts you, just listen to him. The gate is narrow, lets follow the way, and that is The Lord Jesus Christ. Saying a special prayer for you as I write.


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## Ebo Walker

Thanks....I will explain what is going on in a day or two when things settle down. Apparently, when you leave the Lodge they shun you and make it hard on you. My son and daughter in law rent a house from one of my former brethren and he has given them 30 days to get out....No reason given.


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## pigpen1

Ebo Walker said:


> Thanks....I will explain what is going on in a day or two when things settle down. Apparently, when you leave the Lodge they shun you and make it hard on you. My son and daughter in law rent a house from one of my former brethren and he has given them 30 days to get out....No reason given.



 Remember your vow...................................................

  It is better to have never made a vow than to make one and break it........


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## SneekEE

Christian - mason - oxymoron


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## MudDucker

Ebo Walker said:


> Thanks....I will explain what is going on in a day or two when things settle down. Apparently, when you leave the Lodge they shun you and make it hard on you. My son and daughter in law rent a house from one of my former brethren and he has given them 30 days to get out....No reason given.



If no written lease, he is required to give them 60 days.


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## doublelung

Something I've learned is that when we choose to follow Christ, it doesn't mean that we are exempt from burdens or hardships.  I believe God stretches us and pushes us out of our comfort zone to prepare us for His plan.  If God is speaking to you,  listen and have faith and courage to act on it.  Sometimes it will cause you and others you love pain but it will never be too much for Him to heal.  He will never stretch you beyond your limit.  Prayer, prayer, and more prayer.  And get in His Word as much as you can.


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## BeenHuntn

pigpen1 said:


> Remember your vow...................................................
> 
> It is better to have never made a vow than to make one and break it........



the only vow a Christian should make is to God. that is... IF he is a Christian...


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## pigpen1

BeenHuntn said:


> the only vow a Christian should make is to God. that is... IF he is a Christian...



You had better not borrow money from a bank then.....or promise anyone anything.....or get married....did you think before you wrote that???


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## BeenHuntn

pigpen1 said:


> You had better not borrow money from a bank then.....or promise anyone anything.....or get married....did you think before you wrote that???



the marriage vow is with God. the others you mentioned are a part of life.  Jesus did not forbid us to borrow money. He cursed the servant for not putting his money in the bank... He explained that you become a servant to a bank if you borrow but He did not forbid it.

He did forbid His children to enter into secret societies with secret vows, secret handshakes, secret oaths, secret orders, etc...  His children are to NOT be 
"of this world" ... secret fraternal societies are "of the world."

a college fraternity is "of the world". skull and bones is "of the world".  a Christian is in the fraternity of God's Kingdom only...  our kingdom is in heaven, not in this world.
Jesus would have never approved of such a group... sorry.


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## pigpen1

BeenHuntn said:


> the marriage vow is with God. the others you mentioned are a part of life.  Jesus did not forbid us to borrow money. He cursed the servant for not putting his money in the bank... He explained that you become a servant to a bank if you borrow but He did not forbid it.
> 
> He did forbid His children to enter into secret societies with secret vows, secret handshakes, secret oaths, secret orders, etc...
> 
> .



 Scripture Please????????????????????


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## pigpen1

BeenHuntn said:


> the marriage vow is with God.



 Sorry it is not. It is to the spouse, in sickness and in health for richer or poorer..etc

 Marriage is ordained of God, but the vow is to the spouse.


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## pigpen1

BeenHuntn said:


> Jesus did not forbid us to borrow money.



Rom 13:8

8 Owe no man any thing
KJV


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## BeenHuntn

pigpen1 said:


> Scripture Please????????????????????



take your pick...

http://www.cuttingedge.org/fmcorner.html

if you want to pledge allegiance to a Jesus denying group of men... knock your socks off...

for me and my family... we shall serve the Lord...


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## BeenHuntn

pigpen1 said:


> Rom 13:8
> 
> 8 Owe no man any thing
> KJV



http://www.saintsalive.com/freemasonry.html

There have been many questions regarding the compatibility of Freemasonry and Christianity. The claim of every Mason is that Masonry and Christianity are totally compatible.

They say that religion is the experience of relating to God, and Masonry is the experience of relating to mankind. While separate, they can and do naturally co-exist. Well, if Freemasonry is truly what it professes publicly, then "Bravo!"; it is
a welcome fellowship. If it is being deceptive, or as some claim, a serious danger to the Mason, his or her family and Church, then it should be exposed as such. It is that simple. Let's look at just a few of the Lodge's basic principles in the Light of Biblical truth.

NO OTHER GODS!

"And God spoke all these words: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"( Exodus 20:1-5 ) This is the first and primary Commandment! All other commandments find their reason in it. God put it at the top of the list for a reason! If you have a faulty view of God, your whole spiritual perspective is skewed by that error.   

Listen to God: "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) If your view of God is anything but that which God, Himself has declared above, your view is not Christian orthodoxy. If your view of Christ is not that which is equally Biblically based, your view of Christ is just as filled with danger. Let's see what the Masonic fraternity, itself has to say about the nature of God. 

FREEMASONS BOW AT EVERY ALTAR 

"The true Mason is not creed-bound. He realizes with the divine illumination of his lodge that as a Mason his religion must be universal: Christ, Buddha, or Mohammed, the name means little, for he recognizes only the light and not the bearer. He worships at every shrine, bows before every altar, whether in temple, mosque or cathedral, realizing with his truer understanding the oneness of all spiritual truth." (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, 33o, p.65, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Co., Richmond, VA., 1976.)

THE BIBLE SAYS
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ( John 14:6 ) "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." ( 1Tim. 2:5 )  

OUR LORD AMONG THE BAALIM
"Masonry, around whose altars the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahmin, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer to the one God who is above ALL the Baalim, must needs leave it to each of its initiates to look for the foundation of his faith and hope to the written scriptures of his own religion." (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, 1956, page 226)
[Ed note : The word "Baalim," is simply defined as "false god or idol." The Masonic author has included the God of the Christian in that category.]

IS JESUS LORD?
The Bible says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12) That is pretty straight forward information. The question that has to be asked of the Mason here is simply, "Are you a Christian who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord?" Is your answer, like many Masons, "yes!"?? Then my response to the Christian Mason is simply, "Why won't you just do what Jesus clearly told you to do?

THE BIBLE SAYS

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your `Yes' be `Yes,' and your `No,' `No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. ( Matt. 5:33 -37 ) That was Jesus Himself talking to those who believed on Him. Surely, it would be a foolish Christian who would defy the Lord in such a serious matter. What earthly thing would be worth violating a direct instruction from our Savior? None!                         

BOUND BY BLOOD OATHS

From the initiation rituals of the "BLUE LODGES" and through all 33 degrees of Freemasonry, every Mason in the world is bound by bloody oaths to maintain the secrets of the Lodge. These binding oaths are kept through the spirit of fear, because the penalties for betraying the brethren of the lodge include serious physical harm to the Mason. Look at them from the perspective of Christ's admonition. The oath sworn by the Entered Apprentice or first degree: "binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low water mark." The Master Mason swears,"under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scatter before the four winds of heaven" (Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry, 3rd Ed., pp. 35 396, David McKay Pub., New York, NY)

THE BIBLE SAYS

Jesus, speaking again to His disciples, clearly dealt with this exact situation. "There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs. "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:2-5 )                                                      

TRUSTING THE BIBLE

We do well to know the Word Of God. As Jesus prayed to the Father for His disciples, His prayer was: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." ( John 17:17) The Bible clearly teaches that the mature Christian must be grounded in God's Word. This is probably the most grievous error of those enmeshed in the web of Freemasonry. It is the ignorance of or lack of regard for the truth of God's Holy Word.  What true Christian man (or woman) would dare go through the rituals of Freemasonry knowing that someday, he or she would have to stand before a Holy God and account for those acts of darkness. Let me give you a few examples.

The grave, Christless end awaiting members of the Masonic order can be demonstrated by the Apron Lecture, given every Mason in the Blue Lodge Ceremony. The following quote can be found almost word for word in most Masonic Monitors, the Craft ritual manual. Each candidate, upon completion of the initiation is given a white Lambskin Apron whose pure and spotless surface, he is told, would be "an ever present reminder of purity of life and rectitude of conduct, and when at last, after a life of faithful service your weary feet shall have come to the end of life's toilsome journey and from your nerveless grasp shall have dropped forever the working tools of life, may the record of your life be as pure and spotless as this fair emblem which I place in your hands tonight, and when your trembling soul shall stand, naked and alone, before the Great White Throne, there to receive judgement for the deeds done while here in the body, may it be your portion to hear from Him who sitteth as the Judge Supreme, the welcome words: Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee rule over many things! Enter into the joy of thy Lord."

While the words sound noble, it is to the everlasting pit of Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- that the unsuspecting candidate has been assigned in the subtle words of the message. The promise is that the apron represents the works of the flesh when the Mason stands before God at the Great White Throne judgement.

There is only one Great White Throne Judgement in my Bible and it is found in REV 20:11-15. It is the judgement of those dead not in Christ, the judgement of the Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, who will be judged... not by the gift of God through Christ, but by their own works, with an end in the lake of fire. What a tragedy! 

THE KING OF THE PIT OF Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----

In the seventeenth degree of the Scottish Rite, or The Knights of the East and West Degree, after the candidates have completed the initiation they are given the secret password, Jubulum, and the Sacred Word, Abaddon. Here is the clue to the true identity of the Masonic Deity. It is revealed in the "Sacred Word"  of this ritual, "Abaddon." In Revelation 9:11, we learn that "they [the demons and  workers from Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----] had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon!"  Again, I must ask, "How could any true Christian dare to take upon himself that evil name as a sacred word?"

THE WORD IS OUT

The supposed quest of the Blue Lodge Masons is the search for "The Lost Word." Most Masonic ritual is concerned with the recovery of this lost word, presumed to be the name of God-supposedly lost through  the murder of the architect, Hiram Abiff, during the building of Solomon's Temple. This quest is attained during the ritual of the ROYAL ARCH DEGREE.
It is here that the SECRET NAME of the DEITY OF MASONRY is revealed. That name is "JAHBULON."  "JAH" is the short form of the Hebrew name of God, "Yahweh," or "Jehovah."
"BUL" is a rendering of the name, BAAL. "ON" is the term used in the Babylonian mysteries to call upon the deity, "OSIRIS"! The secret ritual book of the Craft prints the letters J.B.O. It states that: "We three do meet and agree-in peace, love and unity-the Sacred Word to keep and never to divulge the same-until we three, or three such as we do meet and agree." No Royal Arch Mason can pronounce the sacred name by himself. What is represented as the god of Masonry is a three-headed monster so remote from the Christian Trinity and so blasphemous as to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- the soul of anyone who would dare to pronounce its name in a ritual of worship.

COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." (2 Cor. 6:14-17)

ONE OR THE OTHER

Even as Elijah called out on Mt Carmel " You have abandoned the LORD's commands and have followed the Baals." I cry out,"How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him."(1 Kings 18:18, 21) Dare YOU risk laying your Masonic works before the Lord on the last day only to be told, "I never knew you, depart from me!" (Matt.7:21-23) I pray that you will choose Jesus, repent and be set free from this wicked power unto whom you have submitted your very own soul, Even beyond that, you have surrendered the spiritual headship of your home ( and church if you are a leader in the congregation) to this dark, occult evil thing. If this is your desire, remember that we have this promise, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. "(1 John 1:9) If you are a Mason and you are ready to get your life back on track with Jesus, Pray this prayer with me right now: "Father in Heaven, in the name of the Lord Jesus, I confess that I have sinned. I confess that I have allowed myself to fall under the power and authority of Lucifer, the god of Masonry. I confess it as sin, and ask that you forgive me. I reject it and cast it from me and will immediately remove my name from its rolls. Jesus, I call you Lord and Savior and ask that you come into my heart and fill me with your love and Holy Spirit. Let no unclean thing remain! I am yours and yours alone! I am set free, in Jesus' name, Amen!"

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION


Much of the material in this tract came from the small book, THE QUESTION OF
FREEMASONRY, by Ed Decker. It is available from this ministry and can be found at most Christian Bookstores.


TELLING IT LIKE IT IS! FREEMASONRY'S CHALLENGE
A Challenge From Ed Decker, 
President-Saints Alive in Jesus

For a number of years now I have been in an intense study on the subject of Freemasonry. As many of you know, I spent 20 years in the Mormon Church where the temple rituals have been directly "lifted"  from the Blue Lodge degrees. Other portions of the Scottish rites, such as the the ordination of the "Holy Melchizedek" priesthood are also common. In the book, THE GOD MAKERS, Dave Hunt and I detailed the parallels and the occult origins of each group. What I didn't share was that prior to my conversion to Mormonism, I was a member of the Masonic youth group, the DeMolay and have a family history of Masonry that goes back over 175 years.

The more I studied Masonry, the more I realized the depth of its satanic hold over those within its "strong Grip". Within the pages of the hundreds of Masonic books and secret ritual manuals I have gathered and read in my research is a tragic story of Godly men who have succumbed to the snare of the enemy and have been snatched from the very arms of Christ. They have brought the darkest side of Baal worship into their homes and congregations, opening the door to every demon in that Masonic corner of Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.  When the average American thinks of the Masonic Lodge, the thoughts are of Children's Burn Centers and Hospitals, the Shrine Circus, where handicapped children are often carried to the front row seats in the strong arms of weeping men who are wearing the Red Fezzes of their fraternity. Rarely do we see a parade without these same Shriners driving up and down the parade route in their little cars and motorcycles, wearing clothes out of the Arabian nights, bringing laughter to the little children lined up along the sidewalks. On more serious occasions, such as the laying of public building cornerstones or at the funeral service of a Lodge member, these same men, dressed in somber attire, wearing their ornate sashes and brass-  medallioned chains of office, ceremonial aprons, will perform with solemn dignity pagan rites handed down through centuries of ritual secrecy.

Yet, once you get past the good-old-boy fraternal act, the funny hats and slippers of the Shriners and the sheltered reputation of the local, Blue Lodge Masonic groups, there is something beyond the colorful mask, an aura of mystery, power and intrigue, complete with undertones of conspiracy and backroom politics.  As ever present as Masonry hangs on the edge of the public eye, we see it as even more subtly present in the Christian Community. Except for the ritual funeral service for the Masonic dead, and an occasional march from the Lodge to a selected Church for services, the Lodge leaves it to the individual member to select and attend the church of his choice.

On the other end of that, however, is the church on whose Board sits a majority from the Lodge, or whose Deacons or Elders share Lodge secrets that are in keeping with their higher allegiance to the Lodge, an aloofness from the rest of the Church body. These are "good" men who attend regularly and are often the financial backbone of many small congregations. 
One Pastor wrote of his frustration in a rural church. He put it this way, "As faithful as these men are, I always feel at board meetings that there is a second agenda which is not open to me. It's like they get their marching orders from the Lodge on how to conduct the business of the church. They are good men, but  they seem to operate with some higher' knowledge than the rest of us. There is no submission to the authority of the church and its members."  The simple Christian NO list has been enough for most truly Bible based Churches to take a stand  regarding Masons holding membership in their Church.  First, if the Mason is a Christian, Christ's admonition to swear no oaths at all should be all one would need to stay clear. The secrets of Masonry are protected by the most vile of blood oaths, every one of which is an offense to Jesus. Second, the name and nature of the Masonic deity is an offense to the one true God. It is taught in the Royal Arch degree that Masonry draws its teachings and powers from three great teachers and gods. The combined deity is represented as a three headed snake, whose name is Joa:Buln, which stands for Jehovah, Baal and Osiris, Now the Mason who pronounces that name in the Masonic prayer of worship  has just simply defiled the Holy name of God. Third, in the Shrine, the initiate swears a terrible binding oath in the name of "Allah, the God of our Fathers!" Friends, Mohammed was a false prophet and Allah is an evil god, a demon god destroying nation after nation of his followers. The red Fez itself was originally a badge of honor worn only by Muslims who had actually killed a Christian and dipped his cap in the martyr's blood.  Fourth, At the Apron lecture, the foolish mason is usually told that the lambskin apron will be his   covering at the great white throne judgement of God. The prayer and dedicatory sounds great, but there is only one Great white throne judgement and it is the judgement of the Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. (Rev.20:11) Fifth, the promise of godhood through the Lodge, the usurping of Christ's Melchizedek Priesthood, the Holy communion of the dead, drinking wine from the carved out top of a human skull......and on and on. The scriptures tell us to "not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? Come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you." (2 Cor. 6:14,15,17). 

(c) copyright 2001, Ed Decker


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## Ebo Walker

pigpen1 said:


> Rom 13:8
> 
> 8 Owe no man any thing
> KJV



I take it,you have never read the Lord's Pray and it's reference to being a debtor.


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## Ebo Walker

The more in depth studying I do about the Lodge the more troubled I become that I was ever gullible enough to be a aprt of something so vile and corrupt at it's core.

Did you know that the Lodge never intended for the average Freemason to be allowed to understand what the Lodge REALLY stood for? They MOCKED the lower level Masons for being ignorant of what the rituals and symbols actually mean.


----------



## Ebo Walker

The best resources someone can access that exposes the Lodge for what it really is , is the Ankerburg show videos that have actual high level freemasons who were saved and come out of the Lodge going thru the ceremonies and rituals of the Lodge and explaining what they mean.  You can find them on Youtube.


----------



## BeenHuntn

Ebo Walker said:


> The more in depth studying I do about the Lodge the more troubled I become that I was ever gullible enough to be a aprt of something so vile and corrupt at it's core.
> 
> Did you know that the Lodge never intended for the average Freemason to be allowed to understand what the Lodge REALLY stood for? They MOCKED the lower level Masons for being ignorant of what the rituals and symbols actually mean.



just give thanks to God for opening your eyes and for being out of the lodge... now you can worship God in Spirit and in Truth...


----------



## ddd-shooter

BeenHuntn said:


> just give thanks to God for opening your eyes and for being out of the lodge... now you can worship God in Spirit and in Truth...



I agree.


----------



## pigpen1

BeenHuntn said:


> http://www.saintsalive.com/freemasonry.html
> 
> There have been many questions regarding the compatibility of Freemasonry and Christianity. The claim of every Mason is that Masonry and Christianity are totally compatible.
> 
> They say that religion is the experience of relating to God, and Masonry is the experience of relating to mankind. While separate, they can and do naturally co-exist. Well, if Freemasonry is truly what it professes publicly, then "Bravo!"; it is
> a welcome fellowship. If it is being deceptive, or as some claim, a serious danger to the Mason, his or her family and Church, then it should be exposed as such. It is that simple. Let's look at just a few of the Lodge's basic principles in the Light of Biblical truth.
> 
> NO OTHER GODS!
> 
> "And God spoke all these words: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"( Exodus 20:1-5 ) This is the first and primary Commandment! All other commandments find their reason in it. God put it at the top of the list for a reason! If you have a faulty view of God, your whole spiritual perspective is skewed by that error.
> 
> Listen to God: "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) If your view of God is anything but that which God, Himself has declared above, your view is not Christian orthodoxy. If your view of Christ is not that which is equally Biblically based, your view of Christ is just as filled with danger. Let's see what the Masonic fraternity, itself has to say about the nature of God.
> 
> FREEMASONS BOW AT EVERY ALTAR
> 
> "The true Mason is not creed-bound. He realizes with the divine illumination of his lodge that as a Mason his religion must be universal: Christ, Buddha, or Mohammed, the name means little, for he recognizes only the light and not the bearer. He worships at every shrine, bows before every altar, whether in temple, mosque or cathedral, realizing with his truer understanding the oneness of all spiritual truth." (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, 33o, p.65, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Co., Richmond, VA., 1976.)
> 
> THE BIBLE SAYS
> "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ( John 14:6 ) "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." ( 1Tim. 2:5 )
> 
> OUR LORD AMONG THE BAALIM
> "Masonry, around whose altars the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahmin, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer to the one God who is above ALL the Baalim, must needs leave it to each of its initiates to look for the foundation of his faith and hope to the written scriptures of his own religion." (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, 1956, page 226)
> [Ed note : The word "Baalim," is simply defined as "false god or idol." The Masonic author has included the God of the Christian in that category.]
> 
> IS JESUS LORD?
> The Bible says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12) That is pretty straight forward information. The question that has to be asked of the Mason here is simply, "Are you a Christian who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord?" Is your answer, like many Masons, "yes!"?? Then my response to the Christian Mason is simply, "Why won't you just do what Jesus clearly told you to do?
> 
> THE BIBLE SAYS
> 
> "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your `Yes' be `Yes,' and your `No,' `No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. ( Matt. 5:33 -37 ) That was Jesus Himself talking to those who believed on Him. Surely, it would be a foolish Christian who would defy the Lord in such a serious matter. What earthly thing would be worth violating a direct instruction from our Savior? None!
> 
> BOUND BY BLOOD OATHS
> 
> From the initiation rituals of the "BLUE LODGES" and through all 33 degrees of Freemasonry, every Mason in the world is bound by bloody oaths to maintain the secrets of the Lodge. These binding oaths are kept through the spirit of fear, because the penalties for betraying the brethren of the lodge include serious physical harm to the Mason. Look at them from the perspective of Christ's admonition. The oath sworn by the Entered Apprentice or first degree: "binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low water mark." The Master Mason swears,"under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scatter before the four winds of heaven" (Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry, 3rd Ed., pp. 35 396, David McKay Pub., New York, NY)
> 
> THE BIBLE SAYS
> 
> Jesus, speaking again to His disciples, clearly dealt with this exact situation. "There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs. "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:2-5 )
> 
> TRUSTING THE BIBLE
> 
> We do well to know the Word Of God. As Jesus prayed to the Father for His disciples, His prayer was: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." ( John 17:17) The Bible clearly teaches that the mature Christian must be grounded in God's Word. This is probably the most grievous error of those enmeshed in the web of Freemasonry. It is the ignorance of or lack of regard for the truth of God's Holy Word.  What true Christian man (or woman) would dare go through the rituals of Freemasonry knowing that someday, he or she would have to stand before a Holy God and account for those acts of darkness. Let me give you a few examples.
> 
> The grave, Christless end awaiting members of the Masonic order can be demonstrated by the Apron Lecture, given every Mason in the Blue Lodge Ceremony. The following quote can be found almost word for word in most Masonic Monitors, the Craft ritual manual. Each candidate, upon completion of the initiation is given a white Lambskin Apron whose pure and spotless surface, he is told, would be "an ever present reminder of purity of life and rectitude of conduct, and when at last, after a life of faithful service your weary feet shall have come to the end of life's toilsome journey and from your nerveless grasp shall have dropped forever the working tools of life, may the record of your life be as pure and spotless as this fair emblem which I place in your hands tonight, and when your trembling soul shall stand, naked and alone, before the Great White Throne, there to receive judgement for the deeds done while here in the body, may it be your portion to hear from Him who sitteth as the Judge Supreme, the welcome words: Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee rule over many things! Enter into the joy of thy Lord."
> 
> While the words sound noble, it is to the everlasting pit of Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- that the unsuspecting candidate has been assigned in the subtle words of the message. The promise is that the apron represents the works of the flesh when the Mason stands before God at the Great White Throne judgement.
> 
> There is only one Great White Throne Judgement in my Bible and it is found in REV 20:11-15. It is the judgement of those dead not in Christ, the judgement of the Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, who will be judged... not by the gift of God through Christ, but by their own works, with an end in the lake of fire. What a tragedy!
> 
> THE KING OF THE PIT OF Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
> 
> In the seventeenth degree of the Scottish Rite, or The Knights of the East and West Degree, after the candidates have completed the initiation they are given the secret password, Jubulum, and the Sacred Word, Abaddon. Here is the clue to the true identity of the Masonic Deity. It is revealed in the "Sacred Word"  of this ritual, "Abaddon." In Revelation 9:11, we learn that "they [the demons and  workers from Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----] had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon!"  Again, I must ask, "How could any true Christian dare to take upon himself that evil name as a sacred word?"
> 
> THE WORD IS OUT
> 
> The supposed quest of the Blue Lodge Masons is the search for "The Lost Word." Most Masonic ritual is concerned with the recovery of this lost word, presumed to be the name of God-supposedly lost through  the murder of the architect, Hiram Abiff, during the building of Solomon's Temple. This quest is attained during the ritual of the ROYAL ARCH DEGREE.
> It is here that the SECRET NAME of the DEITY OF MASONRY is revealed. That name is "JAHBULON."  "JAH" is the short form of the Hebrew name of God, "Yahweh," or "Jehovah."
> "BUL" is a rendering of the name, BAAL. "ON" is the term used in the Babylonian mysteries to call upon the deity, "OSIRIS"! The secret ritual book of the Craft prints the letters J.B.O. It states that: "We three do meet and agree-in peace, love and unity-the Sacred Word to keep and never to divulge the same-until we three, or three such as we do meet and agree." No Royal Arch Mason can pronounce the sacred name by himself. What is represented as the god of Masonry is a three-headed monster so remote from the Christian Trinity and so blasphemous as to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- the soul of anyone who would dare to pronounce its name in a ritual of worship.
> 
> COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM
> 
> "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." (2 Cor. 6:14-17)
> 
> ONE OR THE OTHER
> 
> Even as Elijah called out on Mt Carmel " You have abandoned the LORD's commands and have followed the Baals." I cry out,"How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him."(1 Kings 18:18, 21) Dare YOU risk laying your Masonic works before the Lord on the last day only to be told, "I never knew you, depart from me!" (Matt.7:21-23) I pray that you will choose Jesus, repent and be set free from this wicked power unto whom you have submitted your very own soul, Even beyond that, you have surrendered the spiritual headship of your home ( and church if you are a leader in the congregation) to this dark, occult evil thing. If this is your desire, remember that we have this promise, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. "(1 John 1:9) If you are a Mason and you are ready to get your life back on track with Jesus, Pray this prayer with me right now: "Father in Heaven, in the name of the Lord Jesus, I confess that I have sinned. I confess that I have allowed myself to fall under the power and authority of Lucifer, the god of Masonry. I confess it as sin, and ask that you forgive me. I reject it and cast it from me and will immediately remove my name from its rolls. Jesus, I call you Lord and Savior and ask that you come into my heart and fill me with your love and Holy Spirit. Let no unclean thing remain! I am yours and yours alone! I am set free, in Jesus' name, Amen!"
> 
> FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
> 
> 
> Much of the material in this tract came from the small book, THE QUESTION OF
> FREEMASONRY, by Ed Decker. It is available from this ministry and can be found at most Christian Bookstores.
> 
> 
> TELLING IT LIKE IT IS! FREEMASONRY'S CHALLENGE
> A Challenge From Ed Decker,
> President-Saints Alive in Jesus



  Nice copy and paste...lol....It was so long this forum would not let me qoute it all.....did you read all of that...I love it when people try to argue about things that they know nothing about, then get themselves in a corner and the only way they can try to redeem their self is to copy and paste something off the internet...LOL!

 I have said before and I say again, if you want to argue about masonry being evil, go to Scotish Rite or the Shriners Hospitials and tell it to the Moms and Dads of those dieing children that are reciveing help free of charge.

  What does your church do with all its money, how much do the positions in the church get paid???? One small lodge with no paid members does more for the poor  than most  churches with 1000's of members....who's  shame is that??


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## tomtlb66

Prayers are sent. Hang on, the gate is narrow, and your on the right path it sounds like to me. Just to let you know, my 7 year old son and I just said a prayer for you and your family. What a perfect time for you and your family to pull together and grow closer to God. Keep us posted. God Bless


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## Inthegarge

pigpen1 said:


> Nice copy and paste...lol....It was so long this forum would not let me qoute it all.....did you read all of that...I love it when people try to argue about things that they know nothing about, then get themselves in a corner and the only way they can try to redeem their self is to copy and paste something off the internet...LOL!
> 
> I have said before and I say again, if you want to argue about masonry being evil, go to Scotish Rite or the Shriners Hospitials and tell it to the Moms and Dads of those dieing children that are reciveing help free of charge.
> 
> What does your church do with all its money, how much do the positions in the church get paid???? One small lodge with no paid members does more for the poor  than most  churches with 1000's of members....who's  shame is that??



It is interesting when some people get cornered, they try to excuse it by all the "good" (read that money) things they do. What about the scripture that says "the love of money is the root of all evil" ??? If you do so much good why is everything secret expect how much you "help" other people (read that money) ..... No more " pearls before swine "....RW


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## pigpen1

Inthegarge said:


> It is interesting when some people get cornered, they try to excuse it by all the "good" (read that money) things they do. What about the scripture that says "the love of money is the root of all evil" ??? If you do so much good why is everything secret expect how much you "help" other people (read that money) ..... No more " pearls before swine "....RW



 Well, since y'all know it all...tell me of one evil thing that you have witnessed with your own eyes that the mason's as a group have done????????????????? just one thing......

  Please no more copy and pasting, notice I said with your own eyes.............. I am waiting.........


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## pigpen1

With a group this large as the Masons and all the evil finding experts on here, surely, surely some one has a eye witness account of EVIL from this group....... 

I bet there are more people on this forum that has had eye witness accounts of aliens, shoot, some may have been even abducted.......


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## tell sackett

Pigpen1, just out of curiosity,are you a mason or shriner?


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## Ebo Walker

pigpen1 said:


> I have said before and I say again, if you want to argue about masonry being evil, go to Scotish Rite or the Shriners Hospitials and tell it to the Moms and Dads of those dieing children that are reciveing help free of charge.



Why do men have to gather under a "Secret Society" that subjects them to direct contact with satanic principles and compromises their faith and Salvation in Jesus Christ??

BTW,I used to make the same argument. But the real facts are, Christian based churches, organizations, and outreach ministries spend $50-$1 that the Shriner's and Masons Do.


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## dawg2

Rouster said:


> What do they do?



It's a secret


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## redneckcamo

tell sackett said:


> Pigpen1, just out of curiosity,are you a mason or shriner?



I thought he was a preacher


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## ddd-shooter

Paul says whoever acts against his own conscience commits a sin-whether it is asked of God or not. 
Ebo said he cannot be one with a clean conscience. That settles it for me.


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## earl

Ebo Walker said:


> I have been a Freemason, scottish rite since the mid 70's and was recently saved a few years back.
> 
> I have been under conviction for going to Lodge meetings for several years now and rarely attend. I was given some literature about the Lodge and being a Christian and after a lot of praying and soul searching have come to the point that I realize a born again Christian can have no part of the Lodge. Removing myself from the Lodge has caused some problems between me and some of my Lodge friends, two of which are both elders in a local church.  I am shunned by them in social gatherings, and even at church.
> 
> How can someone be a member of the Lodge, knowing how it teaches that "god" is ambiguous and "whatever to whomever"?
> 
> If anyone has any advice or similar stories I would love to hear them.



Sounds like you have an axe to grind. Are you slinging mud or asking for guidance ? If you are really convinced that it is an evil organization and you are now a devout Christian, shouldn't you warn fellow Christians by pointing out specific things that make it of the devil ? Kind of a Woody's DaVinci Code.
 Your church ''friends'' may just be church idiots. Is that a reason to get bent with the whole Lodge ?


----------



## post450

Jesus told us in Matthew 7:18-20 that you can judge a tree by the fruit it bears. He did not say some trees or a few trees, so I would assume this would apply to all those who confess to know Him. Seems to me that many want to cast judgement without bothering to examine or acknowledge any fruit. I would guess most of us here know at least one person who is a mason and bears good fruit. I had pastor for 20 years who was a mason and a shriner and is still a fine upstanding man of God at 95+ years of age. The statement was made earlier that a Christian Mason is an oxymoron. Kind of judgmental and hypocritical based on the teachings of Christ that I read. I think I remember something about a beam in your brother's eye? It is my personal conviction that drinking alcohol is sin based upon MY interpretation of scripture and the feeling in MY heart. Do I have the right to condemn another believer who doesn't hold the same conviction? Do I know their heart or can say they aren't saved if they drink a beer? I can provide 10 documentable ill effects of alcohol but I have not seen anything bad documented about Freemasonry, just a bunch of very subjective interpretation and opinion. If they are that bad, seems like concrete proof would be real easy to come by.

I love how some of you are so quick to jump on these internet extremist's bandwagons. Just because someone labels himself a preacher, builds a cheap propaganda website, and offers a conspiracy theory, does that make them doctrinally sound or an expert? Most I see just want to sell you a book, a video, or even ..............vitamins? Yes, they do sell vitamins on the first website BeenHunting listed. See:


http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/livingwell.htm


Convenient, isn't it? One stop shopping at it's finest. Get your religious doctrine, entertainment, government conspiracy details, and healthcare needs all from the same guy. You trust him with your spiritual well being, so surely you can place your physical well being in his hands. He is an expert, after all. 

As for me, the day anyone I personally know who has been sane and sound his or her entire adult existence while living a Godly life can show me scripturally the error of Freemasonry, then I will accept it. So far, that has not happened. All of the mason-bashers I presently know are church hoppers with odd doctrines or beliefs who can not get along with other believers for more than a few months, several of whom also think the government has a camera in their TV set spying on their lives. This is the honest truth, not an exaggeration. 

The bottom line is if someone does not posses the intelligence and common sense to figure out these "preacher's" motives and intents, then why bother arguing with them? If some choose to base their convictions solely on this conspirator propaganda, that's fine, but trying to put everyone else in the same box causes problems, like my alcohol conviction. I have personally gone to church with a man who withdrew from his lodge. It wasn't a big deal and the lodge respected his decision and yes, some lodge members attended the same church. Of course he did it politely, explaining his conviction and didn't divide the church or tell every mason he ran into they were headed to hades. I wish Ebo well and I hope his situation gets better. I truly believe he should follow his personal convictions, but shoving them down other people's throats as a God given mandate, with his only support being some  internet guru, now that is a cow of a different color.


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## ddd-shooter

post450 said:


> I wish Ebo well and I hope his situation gets better. I truly believe he should follow his personal convictions, but shoving them down other people's throats as a God given mandate, with his only support being some  internet guru, now that is a cow of a different color.



lol. 


That describes alot of posts on this forum.


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## olcowman

pigpen1 said:


> With a group this large as the Masons and all the evil finding experts on here, surely, surely some one has a eye witness account of EVIL from this group.......
> 
> I bet there are more people on this forum that has had eye witness accounts of aliens, shoot, some may have been even abducted.......



I can't argue the fact that the lodge does alot of good in the world, most of it you never hear about. The fellowship and "the craft" were words I heard often as 99% of the men in my family were Masons and it was a big event for the young men to follow in those footsteps. Naturally I myself ended up knelt at that same alter that so many before me had been indoctrinated into the secrets of freemasonry.

There in lies my problem and the reason my time in the lodge was so short lived. As I participated in that first ceremony I felt in my heart that there was something not right. I was by no means much of a church goer or much of a man of God at that time for that matter, but I have always prided myself on investigating matters, using objective reasoning and making decisions myself. I had spent a great deal of time reading the Bible, studying other religous tenets, listening to various opinions, and even enrolling in several college classes that were somehow associated with the Bible's history and teachings. The secrecy of freemasonry requires one to participate to some degree first before the true content of the orginization's doctrine will be revealed. As I repeated those oaths and answered their questions that very first night..... well I can tell you it wouldn't take no Billy Graham to tell me that something ain't quite right.

I can't dispute not one thing that was 'copied and posted' in the above post! Much to the dismay of my father, grandfather, cousins, uncles, etc. I walked out of about my third or fourth meeting and announced my mason days were over. I tried to make many of the points listed above but was generally met with the phrase that "it was all just part of a silly ceremony and didn't really mean anything" and reminded the lodge was all about fellowship and tradition. 

My take is simple.... on the local level like I was privy to, yes it is a tradition and a social status thing. And although the members may think it is just a silly little paragraph or two, well them are some pretty serious words in my book. And play or not, all the tradition and fried chicken in the world was not worth jeopardizing my already slippery hold on salvation at that time. I promise you there is no intentional devil worshiping or baby sacrificing going on at your local mason hall. But I don't doubt for a minute that the entire orginization is based on heathen rituals with a healthy dose of the devil throwed in somewhere along the line. 

I'm truly sorry to my relatives, especially my Grandfather who was hurt the most by my lack of enthusism for the lodge he had sat as grandmaster over just as his father had. He was a simple man, a man who tried to do right by others and help those in need. His lodge was his vessel for his service to his fellow man as well as the staff by which he was measured within our small community. The rituals and oathes and teachings were not symbolic to his way of thinking and his upbringing and lack of formal education contributed to the fact that he never felt compelled to look any deeper into the truth of those ceremonies. 

You know if the lodge would cut out some of that really wicked oath making and kinda drop all the satanic sounding secret words. If they would settle on the one God of Abraham, and go ahead and add a word or two exposing the truth about all the buddhas, allahs, muhamads, and the rest of that heathen trash that ain't real clear in the rituals. If the lodge could just do little tweaking on the local level it would sure make alot of folks more at ease. I know I sure do miss them chicken suppers and sweet teas! Maybe the local chapters can hybridize to a more Godly group and let the higher ups go on with their thing whatever it is?

I would like to ask every freemason here who is a christian a question. Did you not feel a knot in your stomach that first night when you heard those words for the first time? I about busted out laughing until they got to the stuff I had to repeat and promise, then I felt my guts twisting all up. That is some serious stuff and a man ought to have time to think about that sort of thing beforehand. I just wasn't expecting all that I reckon?


----------



## olcowman

Sargent said:


> How does it differ from the Jaycees?
> 
> Or from my college fraternity?



Dues are cheaper. You got to study before you come. You kneel alot at the beginning. The bathrooms don't smell like puke. Improptu wet tee-shirt contests aren't allowed. And you can't bring no likker' or a keg into the meeting.


----------



## wholenotem

Ebo Walker said:


> Amen!
> 
> God says he is a jealous God, yet as a Mason I took an oath to refer to ambiguous God that could be Buddhist, Muslim,etc, etc. And we were not allowed to mention Christ.
> 
> As I got to studying the roots of Freemasonry, I realized it come from the occult and other false religions.
> 
> We as Masons were told to tell people the Lodge wasn't a "Religion", yet our forefathers in the Lodge openly claimed it was the most supreme of Religions.
> 
> Within a week of being saved I realized that I couldn't be a part of this any longer. Like other vices I had in my life, it was a hard habit to break from but I couldnt be a part of it and be true to Jesus and  the Bible.
> 
> I am bothered by the many good friends and people in the Lodge who are led astray by it and see it as their way to "salvation" because they pretend to serve some mystical,  unnamed "god".  My grandfather never darkened the door of a church but claimed he was as moral and righteous as any "churchgoer" because of his ties to the Lodge.
> 
> I feel God is wanting me to speak out on this and make it a mission of mine to warn and save folks entrapped and blinded by this cult. Especially those in the church who also are in the Lodge.




I hear you loud and clear, this very well could be your field to harvest in. I have several friends who belong to the masons, who claim to be born again, but talking to them is like a brick wall. Good post.


----------



## pigpen1

redneckcamo said:


> I thought he was a preacher



 I am, and also at the Lodge that I go to, their are 4 other Baptist Preacher/Pastors and several Deacons...


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## pigpen1

Well, so far we have evil symbols and words......huh...with a group as evil as everyone says it is, I thought that y'all would have saw some murders or Human Sacrifices or turning people into frogs or something......

  still waiting.......


----------



## redneckcamo

ddd-shooter said:


> Paul says whoever acts against his own conscience commits a sin-whether it is asked of God or not.
> Ebo said he cannot be one with a clean conscience. That settles it for me.



very well put !


----------



## Ebo Walker

olcowman...Thanks for the post.  Your post mirrors my experiences as well. Even before I was saved I knew it wasn't right" because I was raised in the church.

Pigpen, if you really are a preacher, I feel badly for your congregation.  How a man called by God to preach the gospel can stand in a  Lodge meeting and our rituals and deny Jesus and pledge and worship to a ambiguous, all encompassing god that is everything to every man and not feel a tug and a reprimand from the Holy Spirit is mind boggling to me.

Pigpen, are you higher than the third degree??  If you are,Did you not feel that something was wrong when you pledge yourself to a Egyptian god??

Once you get passed the 3rd degree you are told that what you were taught in the 1st-3rd degrees are all lies.The higher you get, the more you learn that you are actually searching for the "light". That light turns out to be Satan Pigpen.  The higher degrees within the Lodge even admit this.

Pigpen, Have you ever taken part of Maundy-Thursday ceremonies within the lodge?? Yes or no??


----------



## redneckcamo

Ebo Walker said:


> olcowman...Thanks for the post.  Your post mirrors my experiences as well. Even before I was saved I knew it wasn't right" because I was raised in the church.
> 
> Pigpen, if you really are a preacher, I feel badly for your congregation.  How a man called by God to preach the gospel can stand in a  Lodge meeting and our rituals and deny Jesus and pledge and worship to a ambiguous, all encompassing god that is everything to every man and not feel a tug and a reprimand from the Holy Spirit is mind boggling to me.
> 
> Pigpen, are you higher than the third degree??  If you are,Did you not feel that something was wrong when you pledge yourself to a Egyptian god??
> 
> Once you get passed the 3rd degree you are told that what you were taught in the 1st-3rd degrees are all lies.The higher you get, the more you learn that you are actually searching for the "light". That light turns out to be Satan Pigpen.  The higher degrees within the Lodge even admit this.
> 
> Pigpen, Have you ever taken part of Maundy-Thursday ceremonies within the lodge?? Yes or no??



''that light turns out to be satan''

never heard that one before !


----------



## BeenHuntn

there is no problem with the masons if you belong to the world. i know they do good things. i know they help kids. my problem with them is not their helping kids and not even those STUPID looking hats they where when they are out on the street corner begging for money...

my problem with them is that they are Christ denying. they claim to have a "universal" god that will save anyone regardless of who they are... that doesnt sound so bad... but thats not Biblical.  thats not from the God of the Bible.

as a Christian, i believe the Bible. if i believe the Bible then i have to reject any form of religion that is not approved of by the God of the Bible...

the "grand architect" god is foreign to the Bible. you cannot mix masonry and true Christianity any more than you can mix Christianity and the church of satan...

Jesus said, "come out of her my people"...

i believe that the Bible teaches that "her" is babylon or the world and the things of the world...  masonry falls right into that mold... a man made religion that is foreign to the Bible and foreign to Jesus.  it does not matter what good things they do...  their "good deeds" are as filthy rags to Christ if the folks in the lodge are not born of the Holy Spirit...

there is not a single verse in the Bible that would give hint to Jesus approving of men coming together in secret to do "things"...  

Jesus said to spread the Gospel, not assemble together in secret and worship false gods....  again, lost men assemble and worship false gods... but a man who calls himself a Christian has not part partcipating in such a "fraternity" with a bunch of unbelievers...


----------



## BeenHuntn

BeenHuntn said:


> there is no problem with the masons if you belong to the world. i know they do good things. i know they help kids. my problem with them is not their helping kids and not even those STUPID looking hats they where when they are out on the street corner begging for money...
> 
> my problem with them is that they are Christ denying. they claim to have a "universal" god that will save anyone regardless of who they are... that doesnt sound so bad... but thats not Biblical.  thats not from the God of the Bible.
> 
> as a Christian, i believe the Bible. if i believe the Bible then i have to reject any form of religion that is not approved of by the God of the Bible...
> 
> the "grand architect" god is foreign to the Bible. you cannot mix masonry and true Christianity any more than you can mix Christianity and the church of satan...
> 
> Jesus said, "come out of her my people"...
> 
> i believe that the Bible teaches that "her" is babylon or the world and the things of the world...  masonry falls right into that mold... a man made religion that is foreign to the Bible and foreign to Jesus.  it does not matter what good things they do...  their "good deeds" are as filthy rags to Christ if the folks in the lodge are not born of the Holy Spirit...
> 
> there is not a single verse in the Bible that would give hint to Jesus approving of men coming together in secret to do "things"...
> 
> Jesus said to spread the Gospel, not assemble together in secret and worship false gods....  again, lost men assemble and worship false gods... but a man who calls himself a Christian has not part partcipating in such a "fraternity" with a bunch of unbelievers...


----------



## Barbwire1320

rjcruiser said:


> Hmm....you should search freemason in this forum.  I think you'd find a rather interesting thread that has both sides of the story.



There is only one side of the story that I need to hear and it is Gods Word. Not Mans


----------



## Inthegarge

pigpen1 said:


> Well, since y'all know it all...tell me of one evil thing that you have witnessed with your own eyes that the mason's as a group have done????????????????? just one thing......
> 
> Please no more copy and pasting, notice I said with your own eyes.............. I am waiting.........



Sorry for the delay I have been hunting. I worked at a Ambulance service when I was in college. Several of the men (including the boss) were Masons and were very proud of the fact. One of the men pulled out of the Masons and would only say "it was for personal reasons". He never said anything negative about the Masons. Immediately he was treated differently and in a short time was fired. I saw personally how "Christian" these Masons were. End of "true" example... RW


----------



## post450

BeenHuntn said:


> there is no problem with the masons if you belong to the world. i know they do good things. i know they help kids. my problem with them is not their helping kids and not even those STUPID looking hats they where when they are out on the street corner begging for money...



You admit to some good fruit, so do you dispute Matthew 7:18-20?



BeenHuntn said:


> my problem with them is that they are Christ denying. they claim to have a "universal" god that will save anyone regardless of who they are... that doesnt sound so bad... but thats not Biblical.  thats not from the God of the Bible.



I have never heard of anyone being "saved" at the lodge or by Freemasonry. I got in the flesh and had a very sarcastic remark typed here, but I decided better. Where do you get this being saved from?



BeenHuntn said:


> as a Christian, i believe the Bible. if i believe the Bible then i have to reject any form of religion that is not approved of by the God of the Bible...
> 
> the "grand architect" god is foreign to the Bible. you cannot mix masonry and true Christianity any more than you can mix Christianity and the church of satan...



Every lodge in this country has a Holy Bible in it, furthermore Jesus said a house divided shall not stand and that a fountain could not bring forth both bitter and sweet water. You can't mix the two. If Masons are satanist, why would they even need or want a Bible and why would they do any good works?



BeenHuntn said:


> Jesus said, "come out of her my people"...
> 
> i believe that the Bible teaches that "her" is babylon or the world and the things of the world...  masonry falls right into that mold... a man made religion that is foreign to the Bible and foreign to Jesus.  it does not matter what good things they do...  their "good deeds" are as filthy rags to Christ if the folks in the lodge are not born of the Holy Spirit...



My understanding of "her" in this scripture is the apostate church. Again, since when is Freemasonry considered a religion? As to the filthy rags, I think you are using that scripture way out of context. Righteousness and good deeds are two different things. Scripture says the only righteousness man can have is imputed on us from Christ when we accept Him as Saviour and our righteousness is as filthy rags. The insertion of good deeds is your wording, not the Bible.



BeenHuntn said:


> there is not a single verse in the Bible that would give hint to Jesus approving of men coming together in secret to do "things"...
> 
> Jesus said to spread the Gospel, not assemble together in secret and worship false gods....  again, lost men assemble and worship false gods... but a man who calls himself a Christian has not part partcipating in such a "fraternity" with a bunch of unbelievers...



There is not a single verse in the Bible that would hint that Jesus approves of putting up an evergreen tree and decorating it in December or coloring eggs and hiding them in the spring or dressing up your kids on October 31st, but most of us do all of these things that are steeped in pagan tradition and even directly involve the church through associated activities. Is this not the same basic principle at play?Are you going to tell me that since Salvation, you have never observed any one of these holidays?   Please do not say "yes, but.................." There are many Christians outside the lodge worshiping some false gods and idols and that is not limited to these holidays.

My study of Freemasonry tends to lead back to the Knights Templar. This group came under attack and were banned by a very questionable Pope and no one know for sure if they were evil or falsely accused. Depends upon who's version of history you want to believe. I am not here to promote Freemasonry, it's not my place as each of us must follow our own convictions. From a common sense standpoint, I can see much more troublesome adversaries of the church and much bigger battles to fight that benefit all of Christianity and mankind. Satan wins when he gets us hung up on things like this. There have been more than 1,000,000 abortions every year in this country since 1975 with some years closer to 2,000,000. At 1.5 million that is more than 4,000 innocent lives snuffed out each day of the year. It's a shame that we Christians can't band together and demand a stop to this intolerable blight upon our country.

Discussion and debate are OK but this thread has turned into a personal attack. My point is this, Jesus said to judge not that ye be not judged, again in Matthew 7. You have stated that a Mason is a man who calls himself a Christian, inferring that he is not. Ebo has told Pigpen that he feels sorry for his congregation when he doesn't know anything about him other than the fact he is Mason. Those are bold accusations which may be very far from the truth. Other than Ebo's convictions and these conspiracy websites, do you have any real proof of what you are claiming? If not, then why waste your time? Is closing down the lodges going to miraculously solve most of this country's spiritual problems or better stated, is the lodge the biggest problem the church faces today? How exactly, can we justify personal attacks on our brothers if we are following scripture and the Holy Spirit? These comments certainly don't increase credibility in my opinion.


----------



## dsoj05

I have to ask, what about the York rights.  i was under the impression that to become a knight templar you had to be a Christian.  am i wrong.


----------



## Ebo Walker

Inthegarge said:


> Sorry for the delay I have been hunting. I worked at a Ambulance service when I was in college. Several of the men (including the boss) were Masons and were very proud of the fact. One of the men pulled out of the Masons and would only say "it was for personal reasons". He never said anything negative about the Masons. Immediately he was treated differently and in a short time was fired. I saw personally how "Christian" these Masons were. End of "true" example... RW



Sadly, I am finding this out first hand myself within the church I attend. They acted very differently towards my family and I Sunday. My pastor is new here and is NOT a Mason.  I have spoken to him about this and he is troubled that 2 of the deacons here are both Masons and their actions within the church....


----------



## thedeacon

Ebo Walker said:


> Sadly, I am finding this out first hand myself within the church I attend. They acted very differently towards my family and I Sunday. My pastor is new here and is NOT a Mason.  I have spoken to him about this and he is troubled that 2 of the deacons here are both Masons and their actions within the church....




Brother!!!!! My advice to you is, "do not let this come between you and God" no matter what you have to do. 

If you have to find somewhere else to attend chruch then do it.

The Mason's cannot get you to heaven Christ and his blood can.

My question to you is, how do you feel about staying a member of the masons?


----------



## earl

Ebo Walker said:


> Sadly, I am finding this out first hand myself within the church I attend. They acted very differently towards my family and I Sunday. My pastor is new here and is NOT a Mason.  I have spoken to him about this and he is troubled that 2 of the deacons here are both Masons and their actions within the church....





Sounds like you are becoming a potstirrer of the 33rd degree. Have you also ''filled'' the new preacher in on who smokes,drinks,plays cards,and just might not be a ''real'' Christian. Shoot ,why stop there. Tell him what you want the service to be about.


----------



## Ebo Walker

thedeacon said:


> My question to you is, how do you feel about staying a member of the masons?



I renounced the Lodge and tried to witness to them at the last meeting I attended but they wanted top hear nothing of it.


----------



## Ebo Walker

post450 said:


> Every lodge in this country has a Holy Bible in it



 Masonry teaches that the Bible, itself is not God's Word....it is only words on paper symbolizing God's Word. This is why the Bible is officially designated as a piece of " furniture". THEIR OFFICIAL WORDS NOT MINE.

Freemasonry also teaches that a lodge made up of Jewish people will have the  Hebrew Pentateuch instead of a Bible and the Muslim Lodge ,the Koran. Freemasonry happily substitutes God's word...After all. it is just "furniture" according to the official writings of Freemasonry.


----------



## ddd-shooter

earl said:


> Sounds like you are becoming a potstirrer of the 33rd degree. Have you also ''filled'' the new preacher in on who smokes,drinks,plays cards,and just might not be a ''real'' Christian. Shoot ,why stop there. Tell him what you want the service to be about.



1 Peter 4
17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


----------



## earl

ddd-shooter said:


> 1 Peter 4
> 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?





Should it not be started by the leader of the flock ?


----------



## BeenHuntn

post450 said:


> You admit to some good fruit, so do you dispute Matthew 7:18-20?
> 
> 
> 
> I have never heard of anyone being "saved" at the lodge or by Freemasonry. I got in the flesh and had a very sarcastic remark typed here, but I decided better. Where do you get this being saved from?
> 
> 
> 
> Every lodge in this country has a Holy Bible in it, furthermore Jesus said a house divided shall not stand and that a fountain could not bring forth both bitter and sweet water. You can't mix the two. If Masons are satanist, why would they even need or want a Bible and why would they do any good works?
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of "her" in this scripture is the apostate church. Again, since when is Freemasonry considered a religion? As to the filthy rags, I think you are using that scripture way out of context. Righteousness and good deeds are two different things. Scripture says the only righteousness man can have is imputed on us from Christ when we accept Him as Saviour and our righteousness is as filthy rags. The insertion of good deeds is your wording, not the Bible.
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a single verse in the Bible that would hint that Jesus approves of putting up an evergreen tree and decorating it in December or coloring eggs and hiding them in the spring or dressing up your kids on October 31st, but most of us do all of these things that are steeped in pagan tradition and even directly involve the church through associated activities. Is this not the same basic principle at play?Are you going to tell me that since Salvation, you have never observed any one of these holidays?   Please do not say "yes, but.................." There are many Christians outside the lodge worshiping some false gods and idols and that is not limited to these holidays.
> 
> My study of Freemasonry tends to lead back to the Knights Templar. This group came under attack and were banned by a very questionable Pope and no one know for sure if they were evil or falsely accused. Depends upon who's version of history you want to believe. I am not here to promote Freemasonry, it's not my place as each of us must follow our own convictions. From a common sense standpoint, I can see much more troublesome adversaries of the church and much bigger battles to fight that benefit all of Christianity and mankind. Satan wins when he gets us hung up on things like this. There have been more than 1,000,000 abortions every year in this country since 1975 with some years closer to 2,000,000. At 1.5 million that is more than 4,000 innocent lives snuffed out each day of the year. It's a shame that we Christians can't band together and demand a stop to this intolerable blight upon our country.
> 
> Discussion and debate are OK but this thread has turned into a personal attack. My point is this, Jesus said to judge not that ye be not judged, again in Matthew 7. You have stated that a Mason is a man who calls himself a Christian, inferring that he is not. Ebo has told Pigpen that he feels sorry for his congregation when he doesn't know anything about him other than the fact he is Mason. Those are bold accusations which may be very far from the truth. Other than Ebo's convictions and these conspiracy websites, do you have any real proof of what you are claiming? If not, then why waste your time? Is closing down the lodges going to miraculously solve most of this country's spiritual problems or better stated, is the lodge the biggest problem the church faces today? How exactly, can we justify personal attacks on our brothers if we are following scripture and the Holy Spirit? These comments certainly don't increase credibility in my opinion.



sure the masons have some fruit. so did hitler.. whats your point?  if an unbeliever has fruit... its called filthy rags. God shares His glory with nobody...

nobody will ever get saved at a lodge... its impossible... to get saved a person must have truth, the Word, or the Gospel...  i doubt you'll find any of those at a lodge...

just because every lodge has a Bible in it, that means God approves of the masons?

high level masons aren't satanists, they are luciferians. low level masons are decieved and unknowing of what is going on in the upper levels...

the writings of the masons calls masonry a religion.  she says so herself.

take a look for yourself...

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/pdf/gllink.pdf

she calls herself a religion and a "craft"... what does God say about crafts...?

Daniel 8:24-26 

 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 

 25 _And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand_; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. 

its called witchcraft...

there are not many Christians outside the lodge worshiping false gods...  if they are worshiping false gods than they are not true Christians.

not all Christians partake in the holydays...

yes, there are greater evils in the world than masonry. but a true Christian is to stand up against error and rebuke anything that is false.... we are not to choose just the most evil things in the world and stand up against those and then ignore the lesser of evils... show me that in the Bible...

all the proof that i need is in the masons own writings...  they show their dark secrets, their mystery religion and they expose themselves to be Christ's enemies...

i dont have to do that... they do that themselves in their own writings...  i can look at the link that i provided you with their own writings and pull out at least 20 things that are anti-christ... false religion always exposes itself in the Light... because Christ promised in His Word that He would expose darkness... so us mere pea brains wouldn't have to...

the lodge is not a problem for The Church... Christ knows who are His and who are not... whether they are masons or not... a child of God is a child of God... an evil group like the masons will not deter Christ and His will or Kingdom...  the victory has already been won by Christ... satan lost. and so did satans evil fraternities even though they may still have a short time left...


----------



## earl

BeenHuntn said:


> sure the masons have some fruit. so did hitler.. whats your point?  if an unbeliever has fruit... its called filthy rags. God shares His glory with nobody...
> 
> nobody will ever get saved at a lodge... its impossible... to get saved a person must have truth, the Word, or the Gospel...  i doubt you'll find any of those at a lodge...
> 
> just because every lodge has a Bible in it, that means God approves of the masons?
> 
> high level masons aren't satanists, they are luciferians. low level masons are decieved and unknowing of what is going on in the upper levels...
> 
> the writings of the masons calls masonry a religion.  she says so herself.
> 
> take a look for yourself...
> 
> http://www.ephesians5-11.org/pdf/gllink.pdf
> 
> she calls herself a religion and a "craft"... what does God say about crafts...?
> 
> Daniel 8:24-26
> 
> 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
> 
> 25 _And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand_; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
> 
> its called witchcraft...
> 
> there are not many Christians outside the lodge worshiping false gods...  if they are worshiping false gods than they are not true Christians.
> 
> not all Christians partake in the holydays...
> 
> yes, there are greater evils in the world than masonry. but a true Christian is to stand up against error and rebuke anything that is false.... we are not to choose just the most evil things in the world and stand up against those and then ignore the lesser of evils... show me that in the Bible...
> 
> all the proof that i need is in the masons own writings...  they show their dark secrets, their mystery religion and they expose themselves to be Christ's enemies...
> 
> i dont have to do that... they do that themselves in their own writings...  i can look at the link that i provided you with their own writings and pull out at least 20 things that are anti-christ... false religion always exposes itself in the Light... because Christ promised in His Word that He would expose darkness... so us mere pea brains wouldn't have to...
> 
> the lodge is not a problem for The Church... Christ knows who are His and who are not... whether they are masons or not... a child of God is a child of God... an evil group like the masons will not deter Christ and His will or Kingdom...  the victory has already been won by Christ... satan lost. and so did satans evil fraternities even though they may still have a short time left...





And how long were you a Mason ?


----------



## BeenHuntn

earl said:


> And how long were you a Mason ?



73 years


----------



## post450

BeenHuntn said:


> sure the masons have some fruit. so did hitler.. whats your point?  if an unbeliever has fruit... its called filthy rags. God shares His glory with nobody...



BH, that's not a sane comparison. The masons have been around for at least 400 years and I don't recall genocide in their history. If you study Hitler, you will find he was opposed to Freemasonry. You have entirely missed missed my point and obviously don't comprehend the definition of fruit and righteousness, so let me start over. When Godly men ( Masons or not) devote their time and efforts to charitable causes for no personal recognition or glory, that is a form of fruit. Some Masons fit into this category. Righteousness, as used in the Biblical term is living to standard pleasing to God. Two entirely different things. 



BeenHuntn said:


> nobody will ever get saved at a lodge... its impossible... to get saved a person must have truth, the Word, or the Gospel...  i doubt you'll find any of those at a lodge...
> 
> just because every lodge has a Bible in it, that means God approves of the masons?



You are contradicting yourself in two above sentences about the Gospel and the Bible, but my point was who is insinuating that the lodge offers a plan of salvation? I never said God approves, but I thought you might make the connection, but never mind. 



BeenHuntn said:


> high level masons aren't satanists, they are luciferians. low level masons are decieved and unknowing of what is going on in the upper levels...



How many high level luciferians do you personally know? Do you believe everything you read on the internet? My mother in law does, so maybe there are other people out there who do.



BeenHuntn said:


> the writings of the masons calls masonry a religion.  she says so herself.
> 
> take a look for yourself...
> 
> http://www.ephesians5-11.org/pdf/gllink.pdf



The actual masonry pamphlet refers to it as religious, not religion. I really like the way they stuck the occultists Eliphas Levi magic book pages in there. I guess they never let the truth stand in the way of a good conspiracy.



BeenHuntn said:


> she calls herself a religion and a "craft"... what does God say about crafts...?
> 
> Daniel 8:24-26
> 
> 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
> 
> 25 _And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand_; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
> 
> its called witchcraft...



So Daniel describing the Anti-Christ confirms Freemasonry is evil? I would suggest you look up the word "craft" and its origination and history in English. I would also suggest you look up the Greek word which was translated to witchcraft in the New Testament in Galatians 5:20.



BeenHuntn said:


> there are not many Christians outside the lodge worshiping false gods...  if they are worshiping false gods than they are not true Christians.
> 
> not all Christians partake in the holydays...



So you are stating that you don't participate in any of the three holidays I named? 

As to false gods, anything that is placed before serving God is an idol. I know many Christians who regularly stay out of church to go to ball games or to hunt or fish. Some don't pay tithes, but spend their money on fancy homes and cars. I certainly will not go so far as to say they are not real Christians. 



BeenHuntn said:


> yes, there are greater evils in the world than masonry. but a true Christian is to stand up against error and rebuke anything that is false....
> 
> we are not to choose just the most evil things in the world and stand up against those and then ignore the lesser of evils... show me that in the Bible...



OK, we agree here, but are we committed enough to stand up against everything in error and that is false? If we don't and just call out certain things, then we are hypocrites. My argument is that some things are much clearer than this issue.



BeenHuntn said:


> all the proof that i need is in the masons own writings...  they show their dark secrets, their mystery religion and they expose themselves to be Christ's enemies...
> 
> i dont have to do that... they do that themselves in their own writings...  i can look at the link that i provided you with their own writings and pull out at least 20 things that are anti-christ... false religion always exposes itself in the Light... because Christ promised in His Word that He would expose darkness... so us mere pea brains wouldn't have to...
> 
> the lodge is not a problem for The Church... Christ knows who are His and who are not... whether they are masons or not... a child of God is a child of God... an evil group like the masons will not deter Christ and His will or Kingdom...  the victory has already been won by Christ... satan lost. and so did satans evil fraternities even though they may still have a short time left...



The mason's writings? or some satanic figures writings who these people have conveniently included as a part of masonic literature? That's deception, BH, that you are promoting by listing the link. Not sure how you can have so much confidence in them? It almost seems like you have a vendetta. 

I will leave you with this, Proverbs 6:16-19 and I will quit.
16   These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
17   A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18   An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19   A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I have saw both sides to this issue tear up a church and commit the abomination listed in verse 19. I hope Ebo and his former lodge brothers are not doing the same thing.


----------



## BeenHuntn

post450 said:


> BH, that's not a sane comparison. The masons have been around for at least 400 years and I don't recall genocide in their history. If you study Hitler, you will find he was opposed to Freemasonry. You have entirely missed missed my point and obviously don't comprehend the definition of fruit and righteousness, so let me start over. When Godly men ( Masons or not) devote their time and efforts to charitable causes for no personal recognition or glory, that is a form of fruit. Some Masons fit into this category. Righteousness, as used in the Biblical term is living to standard pleasing to God. Two entirely different things.
> 
> 
> 
> You are contradicting yourself in two above sentences about the Gospel and the Bible, but my point was who is insinuating that the lodge offers a plan of salvation? I never said God approves, but I thought you might make the connection, but never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> How many high level luciferians do you personally know? Do you believe everything you read on the internet? My mother in law does, so maybe there are other people out there who do.
> 
> 
> 
> The actual masonry pamphlet refers to it as religious, not religion. I really like the way they stuck the occultists Eliphas Levi magic book pages in there. I guess they never let the truth stand in the way of a good conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> So Daniel describing the Anti-Christ confirms Freemasonry is evil? I would suggest you look up the word "craft" and its origination and history in English. I would also suggest you look up the Greek word which was translated to witchcraft in the New Testament in Galatians 5:20.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are stating that you don't participate in any of the three holidays I named?
> 
> As to false gods, anything that is placed before serving God is an idol. I know many Christians who regularly stay out of church to go to ball games or to hunt or fish. Some don't pay tithes, but spend their money on fancy homes and cars. I certainly will not go so far as to say they are not real Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, we agree here, but are we committed enough to stand up against everything in error and that is false? If we don't and just call out certain things, then we are hypocrites. My argument is that some things are much clearer than this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> The mason's writings? or some satanic figures writings who these people have conveniently included as a part of masonic literature? That's deception, BH, that you are promoting by listing the link. Not sure how you can have so much confidence in them? It almost seems like you have a vendetta.
> 
> I will leave you with this, Proverbs 6:16-19 and I will quit.
> 16   These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
> 17   A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
> 18   An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
> 19   A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
> 
> I have saw both sides to this issue tear up a church and commit the abomination listed in verse 19. I hope Ebo and his former lodge brothers are not doing the same thing.



450, it does not sound like that you are in the chains of this cult...  it sounds like you are just playing the devils advocate and i hope that is the case... i think you mean well but just cant see how this false religion is an enemy to Christ...

yes, they do nice things.  but that is not my point. my arguement is about Christ and what *is* Christian and if this group of men is a friend to Christ or an enemy.. i say they are an enemy and i will go to my grave saying that they are an enemy to Christ.  if i am wrong, i will find out when i get to heaven that i was wrong... i dont think i am though...  your verse about "brethren" means nothing because i dont know if they are brethren or not.. only God knows...  anyway... peace.


----------



## Sargent

Why is it a cult?  Specifically, why is it a cult? 

They do not focus on Jesus (but believe in a higher power).  

Let's look at other groups that are not Jesus-centric:
American Cancer Society
Jaycees
Kiwanis
College fraternities and sororities
Academic honor societies
Unions (well, there could be an argument that these are in fact, evil)
The list could go on and on.

Let me ask a question that I have posed before to all anti-Masonic folks who have posted here:
Children's health care of Atlanta/Scottish Rite is backed by the Masons.  
If your child had a very rare condition that threatened his/her life (God forbid) and the top specialist in the world was on staff at Scottish Rite, would you take your child there to get treated?  Or would you be against using this institution?

If you are that headstrong in your convictions, you could not morally and ethically take your child to see this specialist.

Now, what if the specialist wasn't at Scottish Rite- but at another hospital.  And they were Buddhist?  Could you take your child there?

By the way, I am not a member of any Masonic organization.


----------



## BeenHuntn

Sargent said:


> Why is it a cult?  Specifically, why is it a cult?
> 
> They do not focus on Jesus (but believe in a higher power).
> 
> Let's look at other groups that are not Jesus-centric:
> American Cancer Society
> Jaycees
> Kiwanis
> College fraternities and sororities
> Academic honor societies
> Unions (well, there could be an argument that these are in fact, evil)
> The list could go on and on.
> 
> Let me ask a question that I have posed before to all anti-Masonic folks who have posted here:
> Children's health care of Atlanta/Scottish Rite is backed by the Masons.
> If your child had a very rare condition that threatened his/her life (God forbid) and the top specialist in the world was on staff at Scottish Rite, would you take your child there to get treated?  Or would you be against using this institution?
> 
> If you are that headstrong in your convictions, you could not morally and ethically take your child to see this specialist.
> 
> Now, what if the specialist wasn't at Scottish Rite- but at another hospital.  And they were Buddhist?  Could you take your child there?
> 
> By the way, I am not a member of any Masonic organization.



i did acknowledge that they do "good works"...  and thats a good thing. but they deny Christ and that makes them lost. doing good deeds is nothing compared to going to heaven.  we are to strive for the Kingdom and salvation and Christ... once we find it (or He finds us)... we must d good deeds to please Him...  otherise filthy rags.

Bill Gates gives billions of dollars to help people...  but he's an athiest so it does not matter how much money he gives... he's still lost...  my concern or burden are the souls of men... not doing good deeds so other people can see my deeds and think good of me...  there is only One good and that is God.


----------



## Lowjack

Ebo Walker said:


> The more in depth studying I do about the Lodge the more troubled I become that I was ever gullible enough to be a aprt of something so vile and corrupt at it's core.
> 
> Did you know that the Lodge never intended for the average Freemason to be allowed to understand what the Lodge REALLY stood for? They MOCKED the lower level Masons for being ignorant of what the rituals and symbols actually mean.



The darkness hateth the light because light reveals their sin. Sin brings comdemnation. Condemnation exposes the failures of mans best efforts to be righteous, pure, and holy. 
There was darkness over all the land of Egypt, but there was light in Goshen!!


----------



## earl

BeenHuntn said:


> 73 years



You must be a unique individual. That would make you at least 89 using age 16 as a join date. You have stated you are expecting a child soon . You are either a very old father or you are not telling the truth which some might call a sin. Sorry but you set yourself up on that pedestal . 

Sargent posed some pretty good ''character'' questions you didn't answer.


----------



## BeenHuntn

Sargent said:


> Why is it a cult?  Specifically, why is it a cult?
> 
> They do not focus on Jesus (but believe in a higher power).
> 
> Let's look at other groups that are not Jesus-centric:
> American Cancer Society
> Jaycees
> Kiwanis
> College fraternities and sororities
> Academic honor societies
> Unions (well, there could be an argument that these are in fact, evil)
> The list could go on and on.
> 
> Let me ask a question that I have posed before to all anti-Masonic folks who have posted here:
> Children's health care of Atlanta/Scottish Rite is backed by the Masons.
> If your child had a very rare condition that threatened his/her life (God forbid) and the top specialist in the world was on staff at Scottish Rite, would you take your child there to get treated?  Or would you be against using this institution?
> 
> If you are that headstrong in your convictions, you could not morally and ethically take your child to see this specialist.
> 
> Now, what if the specialist wasn't at Scottish Rite- but at another hospital.  And they were Buddhist?  Could you take your child there?
> 
> By the way, I am not a member of any Masonic organization.



let me address this so earl wont flatline again...  

to me a cult is any religion that is not TRUE Christianity.  that may not be a definition you find in the dictionary but i believe that is what God believes and would say, based on the Word of God. in other words, a false religion.

a higher power??  i believe in the God of the Bible, His Son and the Holy Spirit as they are described perfectly in the Bible...

would i take my child to a mason backed hospital? yes? all hospitals are run by unbelievers.  being a mason hospital makes them no different. 

if i needed to, i would take my child to any doctor that is qualified to help them... i may not like it but i would do it. there is a shortage of Christian doctors in the world...
so who i take my child to is based on their qualifications and not their religion, but if i had a pick between a true Christian doctor and a buddhist dr. the child would go to the Christian dr...

earl, the comment about my age was a joke... lighten up and have a fresca...


----------



## earl

As strong as you come on ,it's hard to know when to lighten up ,but OK. Christian doctors ? You may be surprised who you find in a shriners hospital. You may also want to look at St. Josephs. I spend a lot of time and money with them . They are also some fine folks .


----------



## Ebo Walker

earl said:


> They are also some fine folks .



Your missing the entire point Earl. MANY people who never set foot in a  church or a Lodge are "fine folks".


The Lodge teaches rituals and traditions that are unscriptural and go against the very teachings of Jesus Christ.  That there lies the problem.

Many people and organizations that were corrupt, morally bankrupt, and tyrannical in nature were full of "fine people"who did many "good things".

The Bible I read says the very best of men will stand before Jesus Christ and  he will claim he never knew them and cast them into "hades".


----------



## earl

Ebo Walker said:


> Your missing the entire point Earl. MANY people who never set foot in a  church or a Lodge are "fine folks".
> 
> 
> The Lodge teaches rituals and traditions that are unscriptural and go against the very teachings of Jesus Christ.  That there lies the problem.
> 
> Many people and organizations that were corrupt, morally bankrupt, and tyrannical in nature were full of "fine people"who did many "good things".
> 
> The Bible I read says the very best of men will stand before Jesus Christ and  he will claim he never knew them and cast them into "hades".





No ,You missed it.  I will make myself available to you on an agreed upon date and go to both places to talk to some ''fine folks'' . You can point out the ones that aren't Christian to me.  When would you like to go ? Perhaps we can take BH with us. We can check out their ''fruit ''while we are at it .


----------



## Ebo Walker

earl said:


> No ,You missed it.  I will make myself available to you on an agreed upon date and go to both places to talk to some ''fine folks'' . You can point out the ones that aren't Christian to me.  When would you like to go ? Perhaps we can take BH with us. We can check out their ''fruit ''while we are at it .



Earl....Apparently something I said made you mad. Your reply only further proves you don't have a clue about what I am talking about.  Being a "fine" person knows no color, ethnicity, religion, or "secret affiliation".
I think the problem you are having is you do not understand the compromise with god and the Bible a Christian is making  to be a brethren in the Lodge.


----------



## earl

Ebo Walker said:


> Earl....Apparently something I said made you mad. Your reply only further proves you don't have a clue about what I am talking about.  Being a "fine" person knows no color, ethnicity, religion, or "secret affiliation".
> I think the problem you are having is you do not understand the compromise with god and the Bible a Christian is making  to be a brethren in the Lodge.





Yep . you got on my bad side with the comments on the Shriners hospitals and what I percieved to be a slight to St. Joes. I don't really give a rip about your personal experience with the Masons but when you start running down or belittling the good that they do ,just because you changed your perception , It does irritate me. Walk in that hospital and tell the nurses ,doctors ,patients, and the patient's parents what your take on the ''satanic lodge '' is and see who else you get on the bad side of !!


----------



## BeenHuntn

earl said:


> Yep . you got on my bad side with the comments on the Shriners hospitals and what I percieved to be a slight to St. Joes. I don't really give a rip about your personal experience with the Masons but when you start running down or belittling the good that they do ,just because you changed your perception , It does irritate me. Walk in that hospital and tell the nurses ,doctors ,patients, and the patient's parents what your take on the ''satanic lodge '' is and see who else you get on the bad side of !!



sorry, earl. you are missing our point... ebo and i are on the same page for the most part.

yes, we agree that within those mason groups they do do some nice things for folks. and thats ok except that God does not get the glory from those "nice things"...  the masons get the glory for those good deeds instead of God.

if a group of true Christians got together and did something nice then they would give the glory to God.  for example, after hurr. katrina me and a group from a church went down to the coast and spent 3 days handing out food and working in long lines to get homeless people fed...  now those were good deeds but the people doing the good deeds gave all of  the glory to God... none of them nor myself wanted any glory. we dont deserve glory... we deserve helll... but we're saved by Grace, a gift from God.

as far as the religion and rituals go with masonry... these are what we call evil and false. they deny that Christ is the only way to heaven. the "great architect" is not the God of the Bible.  their teachings are contrary to the Bible. and if a person is trying to follow Christ and is in the group... they cannot serve them both.  the Christian cannot do the rituals and customs of the mason religion without offending Christ. so this religion hurts the relationship between the Christian and God. you cannot serve God and mammon, means just that,...  but it also means, you cannot serve God and anything else in this world.

being a Christian requires total dedication to the work that God has left for His sheep. if i were an undershepherd (pastor) and was leading a church of 100 people.... if i am spending my time as a mason and then bring back the mason doctrines into my church then i am now in jeopardy of losing souls within my church...

yes, the masons have many good deeds but they mean nothing to God....  because God did not even get the credit for the good deeds. He does not share His glory.

so as a Bible Believer... anything that is in this world that takes me away from my duties as a Christian, whether it be masonry, sports, golf or anything that has become a god in my life...  is considered to be like mammon.  and it will cause us to hate God...

its the same as if a hindu wants to become a mason. he becomes a mason and now spends the majority of his time doing mason religious stuff, rituals etc and now they have taken away time from his true religion. you cannot serve both... this man would be a better mason than hindu... 

thats our point.  the masons takes away from God in may ways.  they add nothing that brings glory to the God of the Bible.... their rituals are contrary to the Bible.

a Christian has to make a decision on what is most important...  is God most important or is my hunting or my mason stuff or my job, etc... mansonry takes away from Christ and teaches many false things that are anti-biblical...   just my opinion...

and if yall are aking me anywhere... its to go hunting somewhere... the baby is due on thursday so i am stressing out on another baby....


----------



## earl

Tick tock tick tock.  Well wishes to you three.


----------



## HD28

I separated myself from the Masons a long time ago because of convictions that it was wrong for me after I became one. Your beliefs and convictions may differ, but for me, it was the right thing to do.


----------



## auctioner

For those that came and quit You were told that you needed to believe in a god or supreme being If you didn't there was noway you be obligated and there was nothing there in contained that would conflict with you religious beliefs I have been a mason for 20 years my dad before me was a 33 deg mason and a devalt member and deacon in the church A few years back a fellow like you started a simler thing in the Baptist church Preacher came back from the Southern Bap Conv and started talking about the evils of Masonry, The chairman of the deacon comm. Stood up and ask all the Mason to stand up and hold up their dues cards ALL THE MONEY SUPPORTING THAT CHURCH  stood up The preacher ShUT UP


----------



## Inthegarge

What's your point ?? If $$ is what keeps your church together your in trouble.... It would have been more scriptural for them to hold up their Bibles and to quote "the Love of Money is the root of all evil ". RW


----------



## ddd-shooter

Auctioner's point makes it sound as if it is a group of guys that will do unbiblical things to get their way, including blackmailing a preacher to keep silent.


----------



## 270 guy

Ebo Walker said:


> Amen!
> 
> God says he is a jealous God, yet as a Mason I took an oath to refer to ambiguous God that could be Buddhist, Muslim,etc, etc. And we were not allowed to mention Christ.
> 
> As I got to studying the roots of Freemasonry, I realized it come from the occult and other false religions.
> 
> We as Masons were told to tell people the Lodge wasn't a "Religion", yet our forefathers in the Lodge openly claimed it was the most supreme of Religions.
> 
> Within a week of being saved I realized that I couldn't be a part of this any longer. Like other vices I had in my life, it was a hard habit to break from but I couldnt be a part of it and be true to Jesus and  the Bible.
> 
> I am bothered by the many good friends and people in the Lodge who are led astray by it and see it as their way to "salvation" because they pretend to serve some mystical,  unnamed "god".  My grandfather never darkened the door of a church but claimed he was as moral and righteous as any "churchgoer" because of his ties to the Lodge.
> 
> I feel God is wanting me to speak out on this and make it a mission of mine to warn and save folks entrapped and blinded by this cult. Especially those in the church who also are in the Lodge.



I know a little about the masons my dad was one. I have a question for you being you want to step down from them. say you get in a bind down the road will you revert back and use some of the so called signs or whatever to get help from another mason or get help some other way? I have always wondered about this type of thing just curious not judging or looking down for it if you did.


----------



## thedeacon

rjcruiser said:


> Hmm....you should search freemason in this forum.  I think you'd find a rather interesting thread that has both sides of the story.




If I was going to research freemason or anything else for that matter, it probably wouldn't be on this forum


----------



## earl

To join and then decide to leave is one thing. To decide to leave and trash talk an organization that you gave your solemn word to up hold is another. If you decide to leave why not just put the experience behind you ? Trash talking just shows your character.


----------



## ddd-shooter

"If anyone has any advice or similar stories I would love to hear them."

This appears to be the heart of the OP. It did go downhill from there, but his first post was not a slanderous post.


----------



## redneckcamo

auctioner said:


> For those that came and quit You were told that you needed to believe in a god or supreme being If you didn't there was noway you be obligated and there was nothing there in contained that would conflict with you religious beliefs I have been a mason for 20 years my dad before me was a 33 deg mason and a devalt member and deacon in the church A few years back a fellow like you started a simler thing in the Baptist church Preacher came back from the Southern Bap Conv and started talking about the evils of Masonry, The chairman of the deacon comm. Stood up and ask all the Mason to stand up and hold up their dues cards ALL THE MONEY SUPPORTING THAT CHURCH  stood up The preacher ShUT UP


   manipulation by witchcraft is exactly what went down that day !







earl said:


> To join and then decide to leave is one thing. To decide to leave and trash talk an organization that you gave your solemn word to up hold is another. If you decide to leave why not just put the experience behind you ? Trash talking just shows your character.


you talking about character is absolutely ludacrous earl !!


----------



## Israel

ddd-shooter said:


> Paul says whoever acts against his own conscience commits a sin-whether it is asked of God or not.
> Ebo said he cannot be one with a clean conscience. That settles it for me.



Yep. 
Secret "societies"...alternate covenants...and yes, that may include even college fraternities, all have nothing to do with Jesus.
Being in the light, at peace with God and as much as possible, all men, is not for the spiritual "adept"...it's fundamental.
Of course that extends to adherence, and God forbid baptism, into certain sects and denominations. One is baptized into Christ, one with all believers (no "special" relationships) or not.
Man is forever trying to "add" to the covenant and finding that it can only be detracted from by his own efforts. And nullified.
So, out with all secret pledges and promises... out with all allegiances except to Christ and his gospel.
What can't be stated openly before all, cannot be reserved for a few select.


----------



## earl

''you talking about character is absolutely ludacrous earl !! ''

Come on buddy,don't hold back. Tell me how you really feel.


----------



## BCPerry

I have been a Mason for a long time. If nothing else, the masons have brought me closer to my relationship with God. For those of you who say that the masons are secretive, what is so secretive? Ask me anything you want. 

How many of the founding fathers of this country, that signed the Constitution, were masons? Anyone? All but three.

In looking at the posts made by Ebo Walker, it comes to mind the statements made in another foreum about masonry. A gentlemen there made the exact same arguments and statements as Ebo. The problem was, we found out, and he admitted that he nver really was a Mason. He was just a guy that was trying to disuade people from joining the Masonry.

If Ebo was a mason, he'd know that the masons are firm believers in God.


----------



## auctioner

Ebo Walker said:


> I renounced the Lodge and tried to witness to them at the last meeting I attended but they wanted top hear nothing of it.




Ebo buddy how would you or your church people feel if a Jew or Mormon or Catholic or anyone of those other religions that are not approved by you came into your church and stood up and started telling you how yall should confirm to their way of worship, that's probably how they felt when you did it in a lodge.

I can tell you neither scenario would set well with me


----------



## ddd-shooter

auctioner said:


> Ebo buddy how would you or your church people feel if a Jew or Mormon or Catholic or anyone of those other religions that are not approved by you came into your church and stood up and started telling you how yall should confirm to their way of worship, that's probably how they felt when you did it in a lodge.
> 
> I can tell you neither scenario would set well with me



I thought the Masons were a Christian organization? 
If that was the case, they should not have to "conform" to anything...They should already be "approved." It would be like a Jew witnessing in a synagogue...no big deal, right...


----------



## PWalls

Man, this thread is still going. Someone post a "beating a dead horse" smiley please.


----------



## ddd-shooter

Yeah, but you posting only helps


----------



## leroy

went as far as starting to fill out an application after going to a social (fish-fry) at a lodge was convicted threw out the application and never regretted it. Proud of you for standing up for your beliefs and convictions ebo!


----------



## BeenHuntn

the masons claim to be "secret" in their own writings over and over. Jesus said He came to expose secrecy and that He would expose all darkness...  secrecy is darkness. in the world of true Christianity there is no secrecy... the mason god is an ecumenical god that accepts all people into their fold.... the God of the Bible is not that god any more than the muslim god...  masonry is another form of religion that is not lined up with the Bible...  and yes they call it religion because i have read their doc's first hand and have seen the words "secrecy" and "religion"... 

anybody can join the masons regardless of religious beliefs... but in the New Testament church... you could not join unless you repented, were born again and had been baptized...  a wolf in a herd of sheep causes chaos and panic...  God knows what He is doing...


----------



## dawg2

PWalls said:


> Man, this thread is still going. Someone post a "beating a dead horse" smiley please.



This is funny stuff right here yeeeeeeehawwwwwwww


----------



## BCPerry

BeenHuntn said:


> the masons claim to be "secret" in their own writings over and over. Jesus said He came to expose secrecy and that He would expose all darkness...  secrecy is darkness. in the world of true Christianity there is no secrecy... the mason god is an ecumenical god that accepts all people into their fold.... the God of the Bible is not that god any more than the muslim god...  masonry is another form of religion that is not lined up with the Bible...  and yes they call it religion because i have read their doc's first hand and have seen the words "secrecy" and "religion"...
> 
> anybody can join the masons regardless of religious beliefs... but in the New Testament church... you could not join unless you repented, were born again and had been baptized...  a wolf in a herd of sheep causes chaos and panic...  God knows what He is doing...




I would like to know what "docs" you read that say we are a religious group and that we accept any God, because that is most definately a lie.


----------



## leroy

Bryan Perry said:


> I would like to know what "docs" you read that say we are a religious group and that we accept any God, because that is most definately a lie.



the masons accept all religions that is fact you only have to believe in a "supreme being", that is on the application.


----------



## earl

Bryan Perry said:


> I would like to know what "docs" you read that say we are a religious group and that we accept any God, because that is most definately a lie.





Dan Brown's documentaries and his new nonfiction book all say......


----------



## CRT

LOL! earl, you are too funny!!!


----------



## BCPerry

earl said:


> Dan Brown's documentaries and his new nonfiction book all say......




 That's priceless!


----------



## BCPerry

leroy said:


> the masons accept all religions that is fact you only have to believe in a "supreme being", that is on the application.




You are taking that out of context. Yes, you must believe in a supreme being, but the Masons do not accept all religions. Besides, I thought I read in the bible somewhere " judge not lest ye be judged." That is the principle the Masons use when voting on a person for membership. Besides, did you know that the Masons open and close each meeting with a prayer to God. And all "secretive" oaths are sworn too on the holy bible.


----------



## leroy

why is it out of context if the masons belive only in Jesus Christ then why is that not on the application instead of "do you believe in a supreme being" which has a broad range of answers. Not going to argue anymore about it I as ebo after alot of prayer was convicted by the Holy Spirit to not have any part of the lodge.


----------



## BeenHuntn

Bryan Perry said:


> I would like to know what "docs" you read that say we are a religious group and that we accept any God, because that is most definately a lie.



sir, i have read it over and over. do some research for yourself. go back and read morals and dogma and the other documents written by your leaders over history. they say it themselves.  the words, "secret" and "religion" are used everywhere...


----------



## leroy

ga nopro said:


> "To join and then decide to leave is one thing. To decide to leave and trash talk an organization that you gave your solemn word to up hold is another. If you decide to leave why not just put the experience behind you ? Trash talking just shows your character."
> Earl ______________
> 
> I couldn't have said it better myself Earl, but I'm just not that nice. I might add that one who is refused entry or has been dismissed from a lodge would seem to harbor "ill feelings".
> 
> 
> *been huntin and *ebo----your fresca's are waiting just outside.  see ya round!



If you have been convicted of it that it is wrong why would you not try and tell others if you changed just 1 persons mind it would be worth it. I have seen no trash talk most have said they were convicted that it was wrong which is far from trash talk. But if someone dares to say something negative about the masons they have either been dismissed or refused entry


----------



## Dana Young

I too had thought about joining the masons as so many of my ancesters had but GOD let me to know it was not anything I needed to be involved in. That being said do you think that satan would come out an let everyone involved in the lodge know it was one of his snares to capture christians?  You have talked about how much good the masons and shriners do and I'll counteract with this that satan will throw in enough good things to disguise what he is doing and fool enough good christians into working for him without them even knowing it. It is even happening in (supposed) churches. they look good on the outside but they are really just fake immitations put up by satan that he uses to turn people away from the real GOD. I can't believe that so many preachers and Deacons become involved in these things, but I know they have been decieved. The Bible tells us to try the spirits and be sure that they are from GOD. ANY spirit that allows for more than one god is not from GOD. any spirit that denies that Jesus Is the only begotten son of God  is not from GOD. The masons only have to believe in a supreme being that could be anything from Budda to aliens in ufos. God the great I AM the father of JESUS CHRIST is the one and only true GOD to Believe anything else is wrong. I honestly believe that all the christians that are involved with the masons would truely get down on their knees and ask GOD to show them if they were right by being in the masons and really listen to what God has to say about it, not what there carnal mind and body wants to do then they would get out according to what God has dealt with me on the masons.
Also to the preachers and deacons that has gotten involved in this Please ask GOD to show you the truth. I am Not Judging anyone I am just following the spirit of GOD. Let me add that just because a preacher or deacon says its good doesn't always mean they are right they are the same as anybody else except that they are called by GOD to do a work for him and if they get out of the spirit then they will make mistakes like anyother man. You see Preachers and Deacons as well as any christian you all have people following your examples don't you owe it to the lost or young christians to set a good example and listen to the spirit of GOD to stay away of satans snares. You most certainly owe it to the LORD. Remember their blood will be on your hands if you lead them down the wrong road so you better be sure you are on the straight and narrow path. Please think about this, is some club or fraternity worth possibly leading someone down the right path.
GOD loves you and so do I thats why after reading all these posts over the years on this subject I decided to post this. 
Dana


----------



## leroy

Dana Young said:


> I too had thought about joining the masons as so many of my ancesters had but GOD let me to know it was not anything I needed to be involved in. That being said do you think that satan would come out an let everyone involved in the lodge know it was one of his snares to capture christians?  You have talked about how much good the masons and shriners do and I'll counteract with this that satan will throw in enough good things to disguise what he is doing and fool enough good christians into working for him without them even knowing it. It is even happening in (supposed) churches. they look good on the outside but they are really just fake immitations put up by satan that he uses to turn people away from the real GOD. I can't believe that so many preachers and Deacons become involved in these things, but I know they have been decieved. The Bible tells us to try the spirits and be sure that they are from GOD. ANY spirit that allows for more than one god is not from GOD. any spirit that denies that Jesus Is the only begotten son of God  is not from GOD. The masons only have to believe in a supreme being that could be anything from Budda to aliens in ufos. God the great I AM the father of JESUS CHRIST is the one and only true GOD to Believe anything else is wrong. I honestly believe that all the christians that are involved with the masons would truely get down on their knees and ask GOD to show them if they were right by being in the masons and really listen to what God has to say about it, not what there carnal mind and body wants to do then they would get out according to what God has dealt with me on the masons.
> Also to the preachers and deacons that has gotten involved in this Please ask GOD to show you the truth. I am Not Judging anyone I am just following the spirit of GOD. Let me add that just because a preacher or deacon says its good doesn't always mean they are right they are the same as anybody else except that they are called by GOD to do a work for him and if they get out of the spirit then they will make mistakes like anyother man. You see Preachers and Deacons as well as any christian you all have people following your examples don't you owe it to the lost or young christians to set a good example and listen to the spirit of GOD to stay away of satans snares. You most certainly owe it to the LORD. Remember their blood will be on your hands if you lead them down the wrong road so you better be sure you are on the straight and narrow path. Please think about this, is some club or fraternity worth possibly leading someone down the right path.
> GOD loves you and so do I thats why after reading all these posts over the years on this subject I decided to post this.
> Dana



Dana this is without a doubt the BEST post that I have ever seen on this subject on this message board and I agree whole hearted GREAT GREAT JOB


----------



## Barbwire1320

Dana Young said:


> I too had thought about joining the masons as so many of my ancesters had but GOD let me to know it was not anything I needed to be involved in. That being said do you think that satan would come out an let everyone involved in the lodge know it was one of his snares to capture christians?  You have talked about how much good the masons and shriners do and I'll counteract with this that satan will throw in enough good things to disguise what he is doing and fool enough good christians into working for him without them even knowing it. It is even happening in (supposed) churches. they look good on the outside but they are really just fake immitations put up by satan that he uses to turn people away from the real GOD. I can't believe that so many preachers and Deacons become involved in these things, but I know they have been decieved. The Bible tells us to try the spirits and be sure that they are from GOD. ANY spirit that allows for more than one god is not from GOD. any spirit that denies that Jesus Is the only begotten son of God  is not from GOD. The masons only have to believe in a supreme being that could be anything from Budda to aliens in ufos. God the great I AM the father of JESUS CHRIST is the one and only true GOD to Believe anything else is wrong. I honestly believe that all the christians that are involved with the masons would truely get down on their knees and ask GOD to show them if they were right by being in the masons and really listen to what God has to say about it, not what there carnal mind and body wants to do then they would get out according to what God has dealt with me on the masons.
> Also to the preachers and deacons that has gotten involved in this Please ask GOD to show you the truth. I am Not Judging anyone I am just following the spirit of GOD. Let me add that just because a preacher or deacon says its good doesn't always mean they are right they are the same as anybody else except that they are called by GOD to do a work for him and if they get out of the spirit then they will make mistakes like anyother man. You see Preachers and Deacons as well as any christian you all have people following your examples don't you owe it to the lost or young christians to set a good example and listen to the spirit of GOD to stay away of satans snares. You most certainly owe it to the LORD. Remember their blood will be on your hands if you lead them down the wrong road so you better be sure you are on the straight and narrow path. Please think about this, is some club or fraternity worth possibly leading someone down the right path.
> GOD loves you and so do I thats why after reading all these posts over the years on this subject I decided to post this.
> Dana



Great post. You told the truth.


----------



## Inthegarge

Bryan Perry said:


> You are taking that out of context. Yes, you must believe in a supreme being, but the Masons do not accept all religions. Besides, I thought I read in the bible somewhere " judge not lest ye be judged." That is the principle the Masons use when voting on a person for membership. Besides, did you know that the Masons open and close each meeting with a prayer to God. And all "secretive" oaths are sworn too on the holy bible.



FYI the Bible also says " a righteous man judges all things". The word Judge has many meaning in the Bible and you need to compare apples with apples. Many people swear on a Bible every day and are lying. You arguments are without merit.....RW


----------



## BeenHuntn

ga nopro said:


> *been huntin*ebo*leroy, Bless your hearts! The Lodge simply receives good men~and helps make them better men. If ya'll had any idea how many leaders, preachers,  communicators and workers there are in the Southern Baptist Convention alone, not to mention your "own" churches, it would boggle each of your little minds!  *leroy, I'm sure the Lodge appreciated your $ for the fish fry and it was surely put to good use. Too bad that you really didn't follow thru to Masonry. Yep, my experience over the last 45yrs of Masonry is that the loudmouths and the religous biggots, influenced by an associate or a family member, who want to defame Masonry, usually have either been denied or have been dissmissed from a Lodge and "find or make up" an axe to grind. Sad indeed, but o so true. It is certainly not new news.
> So with that.........Check err, Smiley Please!



if you knew what i did to the last man that said i had a little mind... you'd take that back...


----------



## earl

BeenHuntn said:


> if you knew what i did to the last man that said i had a little mind... you'd take that back...


----------



## leroy

ga nopro said:


> *been huntin*ebo*leroy, Bless your hearts! The Lodge simply receives good men~and helps make them better men. If ya'll had any idea how many leaders, preachers,  communicators and workers there are in the Southern Baptist Convention alone, not to mention your "own" churches, it would boggle each of your little minds!  *leroy, I'm sure the Lodge appreciated your $ for the fish fry and it was surely put to good use. Too bad that you really didn't follow thru to Masonry. Yep, my experience over the last 45yrs of Masonry is that the loudmouths and the religous biggots, influenced by an associate or a family member, who want to defame Masonry, usually have either been denied or have been dissmissed from a Lodge and "find or make up" an axe to grind. Sad indeed, but o so true. It is certainly not new news.
> So with that.........Check err, Smiley Please!



Didnt get any $ from me it was a free meal and education and no regrets here of not following through I praise God for opening my eyes to the truth before I got involved. Read Dana Young's post again about preachers and deacons being involved they can be deceived as well.


----------



## ultramag

quackwacker said:


> i dont worship or serve anyone in the lodge.  I do however enjoy the fellowship with my brothers and the work we do every year to raise 10's of thousands of dollars for our community.  We just two weeks ago gave away almost 30,000 dollars to help charity!
> 
> I do however serve a risen Savior!



me too brother Wes


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## ultramag

I am a master mason...I was raised November 14 1998..I believe in one GOD...I am washed in the blood and i am going to Heaven..My grandfather was a preacher and was a master mason and he is in Heaven..Everyone on here bashing Masonry..have no idea what you are talking about..you just think that you do


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## BeenHuntn

earl said:


>



i filet'd him. then i had a beer....


----------



## Israel

There's no greater temptation, nor danger, to the believer's soul than to try to be good.
You will learn, as shall we all, we cannot undo the Lord's work, even and especially, when we try to add to it.
Dead men know, or at least will come to know, the truth of the Lord in this..."Of myself, I can do nothing..."
Blessed is the man who sees God's hand frustrating every single attempt for him try to do, or be, good.
God, who sees and knows all...loves what is.
Simple agreement with God is no more than this, Christ is all.
Anything else, regardless of what men may say about good works, good deeds, good motives...comes of evil.
And anything that raises itself up as good against the knowledge of God, fraternities, memberships...religious and or charitable groups...will be shown to be part of the be not to be revealed.


----------



## BCPerry

Israel said:


> There's no greater temptation, nor danger, to the believer's soul than to try to be good.
> You will learn, as shall we all, we cannot undo the Lord's work, even and especially, when we try to add to it.
> Dead men know, or at least will come to know, the truth of the Lord in this..."Of myself, I can do nothing..."
> Blessed is the man who sees God's hand frustrating every single attempt for him try to do, or be, good.
> God, who sees and knows all...loves what is.
> Simple agreement with God is no more than this, Christ is all.
> Anything else, regardless of what men may say about good works, good deeds, good motives...comes of evil.
> And anything that raises itself up as good against the knowledge of God, fraternities, memberships...religious and or charitable groups...will be shown to be part of the be not to be revealed.



Little lost on what you were saying I think, but if I got you right, and some others, these memberships are evil. We are hiding our satanic beliefs with the good deeds we do. If thats the case, then what about, FFA, 4H, Boyscouts, Girlscouts, FHA, and all those groups. They pray to God before their meetings and they do work in the community. They must be evil as well. We are all going to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, and only you people who KNOW what is right and wrong because God talks directly to you are going to heaven. Is that what I'm hearing from some of you?


----------



## earl

Israel said:


> There's no greater temptation, nor danger, to the believer's soul than to try to be good.
> You will learn, as shall we all, we cannot undo the Lord's work, even and especially, when we try to add to it.
> Dead men know, or at least will come to know, the truth of the Lord in this..."Of myself, I can do nothing..."
> Blessed is the man who sees God's hand frustrating every single attempt for him try to do, or be, good.
> God, who sees and knows all...loves what is.
> Simple agreement with God is no more than this, Christ is all.
> Anything else, regardless of what men may say about good works, good deeds, good motives...comes of evil.
> And anything that raises itself up as good against the knowledge of God, fraternities, memberships...religious and or charitable groups...will be shown to be part of the be not to be revealed.





Here is one of the greatest problems with Christianity in general. On one hand God demands you turn away from a life of sin. Then on the other he makes it impossible for you to comply with first demand. 
In any area other than religion this would be mental cruelty and sadistic behavior. You are doomed to fail before you ever start .
 It should be illegal to raise a child on a steady diet of this type of garbage. It doesn't do an adult a whole lot of good. This particular belief is no different than beating a puppy every time he looks up and tries to wag his tail.IMO it is worse than abortion . At least the aborted child doesn't live a life of self hate and loathing.


----------



## rjcruiser

earl said:


> Here is one of the greatest problems with Christianity in general. On one hand God demands you turn away from a life of sin. Then on the other he makes it impossible for you to comply with first demand.



earl...that is what makes Christ's sacrifice on the cross so important and the grace He has bestowed on us so great.


----------



## ddd-shooter

earl said:


> Here is one of the greatest problems with Christianity in general. On one hand God demands you turn away from a life of sin. Then on the other he makes it impossible for you to comply with first demand.



Actually, I do not agree with this. 

If some believers agree, perhaps they can provide scripture?


----------



## leroy

ultramag said:


> I am a master mason...I was raised November 14 1998..I believe in one GOD...I am washed in the blood and i am going to Heaven..My grandfather was a preacher and was a master mason and he is in Heaven..Everyone on here bashing Masonry..have no idea what you are talking about..you just think that you do



I  KNOW with all my heart the Lord convicted me to stay out of it. I'm not doubting yours or anyone else's salvation I know of fine men who I know to be Christians who are masons but I also believe they are in the wrong I dont care if they raise enough money to pay off the national debt and find a cure for cancer.


----------



## BeenHuntn

earl said:


> Here is one of the greatest problems with Christianity in general. On one hand God demands you turn away from a life of sin. Then on the other he makes it impossible for you to comply with first demand.
> In any area other than religion this would be mental cruelty and sadistic behavior. You are doomed to fail before you ever start .
> It should be illegal to raise a child on a steady diet of this type of garbage. It doesn't do an adult a whole lot of good. This particular belief is no different than beating a puppy every time he looks up and tries to wag his tail.IMO it is worse than abortion . At least the aborted child doesn't live a life of self hate and loathing.



i would say that it is not impossible for a person to be almost sinless.  a person can do nothing on their own and would need the HS to help and guide them. imo, the OT was about Israel trying to do it on their own w/o God's help, even tho God did His best to help them...

but the NT is all about obedience, and God's child using God to help them. the HS was sent as a helper and comforter.  what more can God do for us....?  He created us (Father). He keeps us from hellll  (Jesus) and He helps and comforts us (HS)...
God is awesome..


----------



## Israel

Bryan Perry said:


> Little lost on what you were saying I think, but if I got you right, and some others, these memberships are evil. We are hiding our satanic beliefs with the good deeds we do. If thats the case, then what about, FFA, 4H, Boyscouts, Girlscouts, FHA, and all those groups. They pray to God before their meetings and they do work in the community. They must be evil as well. We are all going to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, and only you people who KNOW what is right and wrong because God talks directly to you are going to heaven. Is that what I'm hearing from some of you?



Maybe it's just the simple gospel.

If I didn't believe God speaks directly to me, I don't suppose I could say I believe in Christ.
Do you believe in Christ? 
If so, then God also speaks directly to you.

The anointing, the "Christ" you may believe in, is the very means by which the Lord speaks to all in the world...
As to going to heaven, I just want to stay there, not make it a someday destination.


As to "We are hiding our satanic beliefs with the good deeds we do."
If you think you, or any group of you can do good of yourselves...then yes, what you inferred is true.

Funny, despite all the derivative and secondary credit some may seek to give God in certain groups...mostly you can tell who the glory is directed to. 
Don't imagine oaths of allegiance are not spiritual in nature.

There's life in no name but one...the Lord Jesus. 
Either he is doing the work...or it's just wood, hay, and stubble.


----------



## Israel

earl said:


> Here is one of the greatest problems with Christianity in general. On one hand God demands you turn away from a life of sin. Then on the other he makes it impossible for you to comply with first demand.
> In any area other than religion this would be mental cruelty and sadistic behavior. You are doomed to fail before you ever start .
> It should be illegal to raise a child on a steady diet of this type of garbage. It doesn't do an adult a whole lot of good. This particular belief is no different than beating a puppy every time he looks up and tries to wag his tail.IMO it is worse than abortion . At least the aborted child doesn't live a life of self hate and loathing.



Yes...God's righteousness speaks to every man about the wages of sin.

The glory of the gospel is that God is no longer holding any man's sin against him...the debt for sin is paid...through the body of Messiah.
To believe this is to no longer be part of the man of sin...but in a new man, Christ.
Now, in Christ we discover and learn of the way sin deceived us, kept us in bondage, and that by Christ's death, we have died to it. But just as surely as we have died to sin, we have also died to the notion that we, of ourselves, (even as the perfect Lord testified), can do anything good. 
"Of myself I can do nothing"...what I see, I do. 

See, if we are to take the Lord's mercy toward us for not knowing what we were doing (forgive them Father for they know not what they do) when we slaughtered the innocent son of God, the mercy that says..."you were just being tools of unrighteousness"...we would be deceived to now set about saying..."Oh, but now I am good and do good things"
No, we are told to simply remain tools, but in someone else's hand.
The tool would be foolish to claim anything for itself...and here I hope you follow...for then we would be back to forfeiting mercy...because we would not be the one who is forgiven for not knowing what they do. We would in essence be saying..."I am no tool, I am the creator"
So, now, being told to yield our members to someone else (the Lord Jesus),  for the sake of righteousness doesn't make us "good" of ourselves...simply of good use in another's hand. 
The tool never thinks in terms of its own goodness...unless it also wants to foolishly still try and pay for "its own" evil...
To be free of my debt, I also need to be free of "trying" to believe anything good about myself, or trying to find anything good about myself.
Man's fall is inextricably linked to his falling for the lie that he can do anything to be "like God" (the thing that good is).


Now, many, I know are all concerned with silly issues of self esteem, pride, and think...pretty much as you've said "rubbish". So be it.

But as much as God has given me the relief and mercy to forgive me of my sin debt, he has just as much, and wonderfully, thankfully, gloriously set me free from "trying" to be good.

Basically it's just "watch me and do what I am doing, son, and you'll know a glory indescribable...and don't worry about rustling through your psyche and looking for some shred of what you believe is good to present to me to make you accepted...I already love you because you are mine..."


Thanks Earl.


----------



## ddd-shooter

Israel said:


> See, if we are to take the Lord's mercy toward us for not knowing what we were doing (forgive them Father for they know not what they do) when we slaughtered the innocent son of God, the mercy that says..."you were just being tools of unrighteousness"...we would be deceived to now set about saying..."Oh, but now I am good and do good things"
> No, we are told to simply remain tools, but in someone else's hand.
> The tool would be foolish to claim anything for itself...and here I hope you follow...for then we would be back to forfeiting mercy...because we would not be the one who is forgiven for not knowing what they do. We would in essence be saying..."I am no tool, I am the creator"
> So, now, being told to yield our members to someone else (the Lord Jesus),  for the sake of righteousness doesn't make us "good" of ourselves...simply of good use in another's hand.
> The tool never thinks in terms of its own goodness...unless it also wants to foolishly still try and pay for "its own" evil...
> To be free of my debt, I also need to be free of "trying" to believe anything good about myself, or trying to find anything good about myself.
> Man's fall is inextricably linked to his falling for the lie that he can do anything to be "like God" (the thing that good is).



Very well written paragraph, and I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## gtparts

Israel said:


> Maybe it's just the simple gospel.
> 
> If I didn't believe God speaks directly to me, I don't suppose I could say I believe in Christ.
> Do you believe in Christ?
> If so, then God also speaks directly to you.
> 
> The anointing, the "Christ" you may believe in, is the very means by which the Lord speaks to all in the world...
> As to going to heaven, I just want to stay there, not make it a someday destination.
> 
> 
> As to "We are hiding our satanic beliefs with the good deeds we do."
> If you think you, or any group of you can do good of yourselves...then yes, what you inferred is true.
> 
> Funny, despite all the derivative and secondary credit some may seek to give God in certain groups...mostly you can tell who the glory is directed to.
> Don't imagine oaths of allegiance are not spiritual in nature.
> 
> There's life in no name but one...the Lord Jesus.
> Either he is doing the work...or it's just wood, hay, and stubble.



I guess that I just never saw it quite in that light, but it is nevertheless true that what is done in the name of Jerry's Kids, Scottish Rite, etc. and at the same time does not give God the glory, has no lasting significance. 

Noble? Perhaps. 

Admirable? In a worldly way, yes.

Selfless? Possibly, but not necessarily.

Christ says, "In as much as you have done it for the least of these....."

So, maybe, some "good works" do make it into the mix. Yet, without the Lord receiving the credit, being the motivation and the one glorified, it would seem that if not done in secret, it merely serves to enhance the reputation of the organization..... and its members. And if in secret, perhaps genuine altruism? Or maybe just pity? Who can know?

In a world that is just cosmic chance, does it really make sense to prolong or enhance the life of a severe burn victim or a dirty, malnourished infant or a sick and impoverished senior citizen? Human existence only has value in light of its purpose. No purpose.....no value. When one ceases to contribute to the general welfare of the population, there is an ocean of difference between man's assessment and God's. Indeed, whether God is a consideration or not makes all the difference.

Israel, you seem to have stirred the embers of thoughts.

Thanks.


----------



## earl

Israel said:


> Yes...God's righteousness speaks to every man about the wages of sin.
> 
> The glory of the gospel is that God is no longer holding any man's sin against him...the debt for sin is paid...through the body of Messiah.
> To believe this is to no longer be part of the man of sin...but in a new man, Christ.
> Now, in Christ we discover and learn of the way sin deceived us, kept us in bondage, and that by Christ's death, we have died to it. But just as surely as we have died to sin, we have also died to the notion that we, of ourselves, (even as the perfect Lord testified), can do anything good.
> "Of myself I can do nothing"...what I see, I do.
> 
> See, if we are to take the Lord's mercy toward us for not knowing what we were doing (forgive them Father for they know not what they do) when we slaughtered the innocent son of God, the mercy that says..."you were just being tools of unrighteousness"...we would be deceived to now set about saying..."Oh, but now I am good and do good things"
> No, we are told to simply remain tools, but in someone else's hand.
> The tool would be foolish to claim anything for itself...and here I hope you follow...for then we would be back to forfeiting mercy...because we would not be the one who is forgiven for not knowing what they do. We would in essence be saying..."I am no tool, I am the creator"
> So, now, being told to yield our members to someone else (the Lord Jesus),  for the sake of righteousness doesn't make us "good" of ourselves...simply of good use in another's hand.
> The tool never thinks in terms of its own goodness...unless it also wants to foolishly still try and pay for "its own" evil...
> To be free of my debt, I also need to be free of "trying" to believe anything good about myself, or trying to find anything good about myself.
> Man's fall is inextricably linked to his falling for the lie that he can do anything to be "like God" (the thing that good is).
> 
> 
> Now, many, I know are all concerned with silly issues of self esteem, pride, and think...pretty much as you've said "rubbish". So be it.
> 
> But as much as God has given me the relief and mercy to forgive me of my sin debt, he has just as much, and wonderfully, thankfully, gloriously set me free from "trying" to be good.
> 
> Basically it's just "watch me and do what I am doing, son, and you'll know a glory indescribable...and don't worry about rustling through your psyche and looking for some shred of what you believe is good to present to me to make you accepted...I already love you because you are mine..."
> 
> 
> Thanks Earl.





Not sure what the thank you was for. 
The belief s you express helped me see Christianity in a new light even when expressed by others but with the same meaning. They are also a big part of why  I no longer put my faith in the Christian God.


----------



## Israel

The thanks was for provoking me to consider the blessed rest I have in Christ, and the necessity of your part, I pray is for the time being only, to find it so repugnant.

When I accept what I am, a mere creature...then God is able to show me the blessedness of being willing to submit to him as creator and author...and also reveal his intent for his "creatures".


I love his lap.


----------



## earl

gtparts said:


> I guess that I just never saw it quite in that light, but it is nevertheless true that what is done in the name of Jerry's Kids, Scottish Rite, etc. and at the same time does not give God the glory, has no lasting significance.
> 
> Noble? Perhaps.
> 
> Admirable? In a worldly way, yes.
> 
> Selfless? Possibly, but not necessarily.
> 
> Christ says, "In as much as you have done it for the least of these....."
> 
> So, maybe, some "good works" do make it into the mix. Yet, without the Lord receiving the credit, being the motivation and the one glorified, it would seem that if not done in secret, it merely serves to enhance the reputation of the organization..... and its members. And if in secret, perhaps genuine altruism? Or maybe just pity? Who can know?
> 
> In a world that is just cosmic chance, does it really make sense to prolong or enhance the life of a severe burn victim or a dirty, malnourished infant or a sick and impoverished senior citizen? Human existence only has value in light of its purpose. No purpose.....no value. When one ceases to contribute to the general welfare of the population, there is a ocean of difference between man's assessment and God's. Indeed, whether God is a consideration or not makes all the difference.
> 
> Israel, you seem to have stirred the embers of thoughts.
> 
> Thanks.





I cry ''FOUL''

That all sounds mighty and holy,BUT. To say that any thing not done to bring glory to God alone is not only highly arrogant but also impossible to accomplish. Most people work to provide for their families,not to glory God . No purpose ,no value ? I say it has immeasurable value. And that is but one of a myrad of day to day things that people do to better themselves ,their family, and their community.


----------



## Israel

earl said:


> I cry ''FOUL''
> 
> That all sounds mighty and holy,BUT. To say that any thing not done to bring glory to God alone is not only highly arrogant but also impossible to accomplish. Most people work to provide for their families,not to glory God . No purpose ,no value ? I say it has immeasurable value. And that is but one of a myrad of day to day things that people do to better themselves ,their family, and their community.



Earl, ultimately you will see the only good things ever done, have been done by God...not even "for" God.
And if you stand in that day and try to present something in your defense, something "good" you can lay hold of that was yours, and your work alone, you will have your eyes opened to see the very best you, or any of us could do of ourselves, was slaughter the only good and righteous man that ever lived.
I hope you take shelter under his gracious gift of blood before that day.
Or you will end up with precisely what you have always desired, the opportunity to "enjoy" your own righteousness for all eternity.
Choose wisely friend.


----------



## earl

I would have to believe in eternity for starters. But thank you for the kind thoughts.


----------



## Israel

You know Earl, I don't believe I did...
Believe in eternity, I mean...


----------



## earl

Israel said:


> You know Earl, I don't believe I did...
> Believe in eternity, I mean...



Then or now ?


----------



## Israel

earl said:


> Then or now ?



I suppose I mean that I don't recall thinking "gee, there's this whole eternity out there...with what conception of God shall I fill it..."

Somehow conviction of the truth of Christ's reality, the reality of judgment and salvation, and the understanding that I was being called out of darkness all sort of hit at once.


----------



## gtparts

Yep!!

That "Ahhh Hhha" moment when God opens ones spiritual "eyes" to the Truth! Doesn't last but an instant, as the "WOW" blows you away!

All at once the "scales fall from your eyes" and the reality of God and His redemptive work just overwhelms all the senses. 

May not be "logical", in fact it is counter-intuitive, but it is undeniable!!

Jesus is Lord! He lives and reigns! He did pay it all! And He loves me with a passion that I can not comprehend! 

Nothing like having the "key" to life's truly important questions placed in your heart. forever!


----------



## Ebo Walker

Bryan Perry said:


> If Ebo was a mason, he'd know that the masons are firm believers in God.



True, An Ambiguous , All serving God. 

 The Bible says we are not to stand alongside believers of another God or belief. We are told to not even allow them into our home or bid them Good day.

How can you take part in a group that teaches God is to man, whatever man wants him to be, Whether it be Buddha, Mohammed,Baal,Etc, etc ??


----------



## Ebo Walker

Bryan Perry said:


> I would like to know what "docs" you read that say we are a religious group and that we accept any God, because that is most definately a lie.



No it isnt Bryan.  You ar elikeMANy within the FReemasonry Cult.....ignorant of what the Lodge actually teaches.

Freemasonry documents openly state that the Bible is nothing more than a piece of furniture in the Lodge. In a Lodge full of Muslims, The Koran would be the "bible" of choice...A Jewish Lodge..The Torah.

The Freemason Cult openly states that God is whatever the member wants him to be. 
"Masonry ... requires merely that you believe in some deity, give him what name you will ... any god will do, so he is your god" (Little Masonic Library, Macoy Publishing, 1977, 4:32)



According to Master Masons and their writings, A Mason's loyalty is never to God but to the Lodge.


----------



## Ebo Walker

auctioner said:


> Ebo buddy how would you or your church people feel if a Jew or Mormon or Catholic or anyone of those other religions that are not approved by you came into your church and stood up and started telling you how yall should confirm to their way of worship, that's probably how they felt when you did it in a lodge.
> 
> I can tell you neither scenario would set well with me



Of course it wouldn't set well with you. You have more allegiance to a Cult than to God.

The irony of your far fetched scenario is, in a Lodge setting, all of those cults, and even MUSLIMS are considered your brothers and can worship the grand Architect under one single roof.

More proof the Lodge is a Cult.


----------



## Ebo Walker

Bryan Perry said:


> the Masons do not accept all religions.



Yes they do..From Baal to Buddha and everything you can imagine in between.   Anything you can cite as your version of "god" is acceptable.

Educate yourself.


----------



## Ebo Walker

dana young said:


> i too had thought about joining the masons as so many of my ancesters had but god let me to know it was not anything i needed to be involved in. That being said do you think that satan would come out an let everyone involved in the lodge know it was one of his snares to capture christians?  You have talked about how much good the masons and shriners do and i'll counteract with this that satan will throw in enough good things to disguise what he is doing and fool enough good christians into working for him without them even knowing it. It is even happening in (supposed) churches. They look good on the outside but they are really just fake immitations put up by satan that he uses to turn people away from the real god. I can't believe that so many preachers and deacons become involved in these things, but i know they have been decieved. The bible tells us to try the spirits and be sure that they are from god. Any spirit that allows for more than one god is not from god. Any spirit that denies that jesus is the only begotten son of god  is not from god. The masons only have to believe in a supreme being that could be anything from budda to aliens in ufos. God the great i am the father of jesus christ is the one and only true god to believe anything else is wrong. I honestly believe that all the christians that are involved with the masons would truely get down on their knees and ask god to show them if they were right by being in the masons and really listen to what god has to say about it, not what there carnal mind and body wants to do then they would get out according to what god has dealt with me on the masons.
> Also to the preachers and deacons that has gotten involved in this please ask god to show you the truth. I am not judging anyone i am just following the spirit of god. Let me add that just because a preacher or deacon says its good doesn't always mean they are right they are the same as anybody else except that they are called by god to do a work for him and if they get out of the spirit then they will make mistakes like anyother man. You see preachers and deacons as well as any christian you all have people following your examples don't you owe it to the lost or young christians to set a good example and listen to the spirit of god to stay away of satans snares. You most certainly owe it to the lord. Remember their blood will be on your hands if you lead them down the wrong road so you better be sure you are on the straight and narrow path. Please think about this, is some club or fraternity worth possibly leading someone down the right path.
> God loves you and so do i thats why after reading all these posts over the years on this subject i decided to post this.
> Dana




wow !!  Awesome  post!! Well said!!


----------



## Ebo Walker

A little update.....

God has been moving greatly in this little town. Several of my friends who were in the Lodge with me have come out of it as well and given their lives to Jesus Christ.  We are in the process of printing tracts and witnessing weekly to friends of our still bound in this cult.
 On a sad note.... The Business my family ran has been ostracized by some of the Masons we sued to do business with. We had all of our bids denied on a large project even though we were the only local company bidding on them and had the lowest bid, not to mention, we would have employed several unemployed locals for this 3 year long project.

  3 days later the neighboring district called us out of the blue and offered us a no bid contract on a job nearly 5 times as large. 

God works in mysterious ways.

 Bottom line is I see clearly now. My head is no longer in the fog of the Lodge and my soul isn't bound by their deceit and false teachings. Life is Good.


----------



## earl

Dude !!!! You must have a load in your Cheerios.


----------



## Israel

Ebo Walker said:


> A little update.....
> 
> God has been moving greatly in this little town. Several of my friends who were in the Lodge with me have come out of it as well and given their lives to Jesus Christ.  We are in the process of printing tracts and witnessing weekly to friends of our still bound in this cult.
> On a sad note.... The Business my family ran has been ostracized by some of the Masons we sued to do business with. We had all of our bids denied on a large project even though we were the only local company bidding on them and had the lowest bid, not to mention, we would have employed several unemployed locals for this 3 year long project.
> 
> 3 days later the neighboring district called us out of the blue and offered us a no bid contract on a job nearly 5 times as large.
> 
> God works in mysterious ways.
> 
> Bottom line is I see clearly now. My head is no longer in the fog of the Lodge and my soul isn't bound by their deceit and false teachings. Life is Good.



amen...Jesus is Life


----------



## pileit

Ebo Walker said:


> A little update.....
> 
> God has been moving greatly in this little town. Several of my friends who were in the Lodge with me have come out of it as well and given their lives to Jesus Christ.  We are in the process of printing tracts and witnessing weekly to friends of our still bound in this cult.
> On a sad note.... The Business my family ran has been ostracized by some of the Masons we sued to do business with. We had all of our bids denied on a large project even though we were the only local company bidding on them and had the lowest bid, not to mention, we would have employed several unemployed locals for this 3 year long project.
> 
> 3 days later the neighboring district called us out of the blue and offered us a no bid contract on a job nearly 5 times as large.
> 
> God works in mysterious ways.
> 
> Bottom line is I see clearly now. My head is no longer in the fog of the Lodge and my soul isn't bound by their deceit and false teachings. Life is Good.




Am I reading this right?  The business my family ran has been ostracized by some of the masons we sued to do business with.  Did you sue the masons to do business with them?  This is the way it sounds to me and some other members I've spoken with.  I just wanted to ask why would you want to do business with someone you believed to be a cult and was this before or after you withdrew?


----------



## fishnguy

pileit said:


> Am I reading this right?  The business my family ran has been ostracized by some of the masons we sued to do business with.  Did you sue the masons to do business with them?  This is the way it sounds to me and some other members I've spoken with.  I just wanted to ask why would you want to do business with someone you believed to be a cult and was this before or after you withdrew?



I read that wrong at first and then figured he meant, "used to do business with". As in prior to withdrawing from the Masons.


----------



## pileit

fishnguy said:


> I read that wrong at first and then figured he meant, "used to do business with". As in prior to withdrawing from the Masons.[/QUO
> 
> I also read it wrong if that us what is supposed to be.  It sure doesn't take much putting a letter in the wrong order to change the complete meaning.  It also doesn't take putting a lot of out of order comments to tear down a lot of good work being done by the masons and shriners, not to count the people who will not drop a little change in the buckets the next time they see the men in their funny hats giving of themselves to help someone else, because of those comments.


----------



## ddd-shooter

I don't think anybody disputes the 'good works' of the Masons/Shriners.


----------



## gordon 2

ddd-shooter said:


> I don't think anybody disputes the 'good works' of the Masons/Shriners.



I think that is correct. Good works are not the issue.


As stated in this tread the issues are:

a) The compass of the Devine,-- as in the belief of a Devine being to be a member. ( The argument is that their is only one God and the gate keeper is Jesus, that the Mason's admit their are others, as do the Boyscouts, makes them teological heretics.)

b) Some people are just not comfortable in a fraternity and its "rights". Just like some very devote people are not at ease in a charismatic setting. (Issue: I was not comfortable so it must not be of God.)

c) It seems that masons for all their good works will austracise and deny individuals from business dealings and employment be they former members or non members from socially important economic (business) and employment . (The issue here is that this is how cults behave toward non-members and former members.

d)  And the Mason's credo of brotherly love becomes a greater issue. Spiritually they are accepting of many confessions (brotherly love) but also less accepting of the individual who does not belong to the membership and it is supposed even less accepting of former members or former brothers if that is possible. 

 Again that Mason's and Shriners do good works is not the issue.


----------



## pileit

:





earl said:


> Sounds like you are becoming a potstirrer of the 33rd degree. Have you also ''filled'' the new preacher in on who smokes,drinks,plays cards,and just might not be a ''real'' Christian. Shoot ,why stop there. Tell him what you want the service to be about.


----------



## auctioner

gordon 2 said:


> I think that is correct. Good works are not the issue.
> 
> 
> As stated in this tread the issues are:
> 
> a) The compass of the Devine,-- as in the belief of a Devine being to be a member. ( The argument is that their is only one God and the gate keeper is Jesus, that the Mason's admit their are others, as do the Boyscouts, makes them teological heretics.)
> 
> b) Some people are just not comfortable in a fraternity and its "rights". Just like some very devote people are not at ease in a charismatic setting. (Issue: I was not comfortable so it must not be of God.)
> 
> c) It seems that masons for all their good works will austracise and deny individuals from business dealings and employment be they former members or non members from socially important economic (business) and employment . (The issue here is that this is how cults behave toward non-members and former members.
> 
> d)  And the Mason's credo of brotherly love becomes a greater issue. Spiritually they are accepting of many confessions (brotherly love) but also less accepting of the individual who does not belong to the membership and it is supposed even less accepting of former members or former brothers if that is possible.
> 
> Again that Mason's and Shriners do good works is not the issue.



I think the problem is when a man kneels at an alter places his hand on the bible and swears an oath to GOD then forsakes that oath and lies to man and GOD That were the problem with me as a Mason is


----------



## gordon 2

auctioner said:


> I think the problem is when a man kneels at an alter places his hand on the bible and swears an oath to GOD then forsakes that oath and lies to man and GOD That were the problem with me as a Mason is



OK. But and a big but! Ever hear of grace. People forsake their oaths in life in general day in day out. From divorce, to abuse and taking back what was given, not paying the your bills, not paying for your taxidermy mount,  lying, etc.... 

I work in a hospital. I am still amazed at how many people don't drink, don't smoke, eat healthy and yet need hospitalization because their sugars are hyper, they are are overweight by 125 lbs or more, they can't sleep at night because they can't breath, they need oxigen and yet when I ask them when was their last drink? When was your last smoke? When was the last time you had fast food?  They answer ,yesterday. 

People oaths are a dime a dozen. You might have a problem with this. As a christian, I don't. As a matter of fact I have come to expect it in heaps...on a regular basis.
And I still find in myself the will to love people and help them come what may. As a matter of fact truth be told, I'm no bed of roses myself.


----------



## No. GA. Mt. Man

Go spend the evening with Mr. Vernon Holt and you will enjoy the company of a Christian who is also a Mason.


----------



## gordon 2

No. GA. Mt. Man said:


> Go spend the evening with Mr. Vernon Holt and you will enjoy the company of a Christian who is also a Mason.



I know he is( a good christian man) and I've known Mr Holt, perhaps from the day when there was only 100 members here on Woody's, or for a long time. I also know he is a mason. I just listed the issues that some of the posters have with the masons. They are not all nessesarily my issues. 

I said as stated, " in this tread the issues are:" and proceed to list them to get the issues back on track.

As a matter of fact I have always ( if you look way back) been positive towards the masons in spite of my church's view as they do not look on the organization with total favor.


----------



## auctioner

gordon 2 said:


> I know he is( a good christian man) and I've known Mr Holt, perhaps from the day when there was only 100 members here on Woody's, or for a long time. I also know he is a mason. I just listed the issues that some of the posters have with the masons. They are not all nessesarily my issues.
> 
> I said as stated, " in this tread the issues are:" and proceed to list them to get the issues back on track.
> 
> As a matter of fact I have always ( if you look way back) been positive towards the masons in spite of my church's view as they do not look on the organization with total favor.




I am totally amazed at the people on this forum that believe The only way you are saved and going to heaven is to attend their church and believe the way they believe. I am sorry that's just wrong. You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different.


----------



## ddd-shooter

auctioner said:


> I am totally amazed at the people on this forum that believe The only way you are saved and going to heaven is to attend their church and believe the way they believe. I am sorry that's just wrong. You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different.



I don't want to stir anything up, but where do you draw the line?
What if the church condones homosexuality? Alcoholism? 
I think it is more than a simple doctrinal conflict. 
I am not questioning salvation, but whether it is a healthy thing for a Christian to participate in.


----------



## auctioner

ddd-shooter said:


> I don't want to stir anything up, but where do you draw the line?
> What if the church condones homosexuality? Alcoholism?
> I think it is more than a simple doctrinal conflict.
> I am not questioning salvation, but whether it is a healthy thing for a Christian to participate in.



I am a recovering alcoholic and a Mason but I am saved and going to heaven
However the baptist church that I went to as a kid has no forgiveness as the my drinking and I been sober 20 years So I see what you mean


----------



## gdog25

The Bible says there is only one Name given to men by which they can be saved. That name is Jesus. (Acts 4:12)

It is against the rules to say that name in a lodge of freemasons. (That would be a sectarian religion-masons accept anyone that believe in a supreme being as do they accept any political party but you can't talk sectarian party politics in a lodge.)

Jesus was God incarnate (Mt 16:15-16)

To not recognize and acknowledge that Jesus was God in the flesh is to deny His deity. 

I do not want to be anywhere that the name of my Savior Jesus Christ cannot be spoken.


----------



## Israel

gdog...you are very correct.
We vote with our mouths so to speak.
When we say Jesus is Lord...we are in every sense declaring our change of allegiance/affiliation from this world to the Kingdom of God.
It is one thing to find yourself sent into this world to proclaim that very thing...and quite another to make an_ agreement with your mouth_ (yes...oaths) to abide in a place where this is not to be spoken.
We choose.
We cannot serve two masters.
Jesus is Lord.


----------



## earl

From another thread .It appears to have a lot of support.

 Originally Posted by Lowjack  View Post
"By their fruits ye shall know them" {Yeshua Ha Nazarite"}

Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." But I say, "How can you show me your faith if you don't have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds."
James 2


----------



## mcbrayerg

"I am totally amazed at the people on this forum that believe The only way you are saved and going to heaven is to attend their church and believe the way they believe. I am sorry that's just wrong. You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different."  

Truth, by nature, is exclusive.  For instance, it cannot be true that the earth is round and at the same time it is square.  It can only be one or the other.  Nothing to do with belief, just fact.  I cannot be both man and woman.  It cannot be both below freezing outside and above freezing.  A truth by definition is exclusive.

The application this has to religion is that you cannot both believe Christ to be truth and at the same time believe Buddha to be truth.  That doesn't make sense.  So if a man believes Jesus Christ to be truth, how does it not make sense that he also believe that the "other options" are false?  That is the nature of truth.  The same is applicable to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.

As for the second part of your statement, "You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different," this is only true if what the other person believes is not true.  If I believe that the earth is round and you believe that it is square then only one of us can be right.  If it turns out that the earth is in fact round then I would be right and you would be wrong.  There is NO middle ground of "we were both right" because we both REALLY believed in our position.  One is right and one is wrong.  This applies to the teachings of any religion.  IF Christianity is truth (not saying it is but just making a point)  then all other religions are false (nature of truth.)  Further, if one of the tenants of Christianity is that those who do not know Christ in life will not get to know him in death and if Christianity is truth then it makes sense, through the definition of truth, that any person who does not know Christ would be excluded from heaven.

THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE'S PERSONAL SALVATION OR BELIEFS, I AM NOT PIUS ENOUGH TO GUESS AT THAT.  I AM JUST ATTEMPTING TO CLEAR UP A DEFINITION.


----------



## leroy

> Israel;4444749   We cannot serve two masters.
> Jesus is Lord.[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That sums it up in just a few words. You cant believe masonic principle and christian principle without a conflict so take your pick.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Israel

mcbrayerg said:


> "I am totally amazed at the people on this forum that believe The only way you are saved and going to heaven is to attend their church and believe the way they believe. I am sorry that's just wrong. You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different."
> 
> Truth, by nature, is exclusive.  For instance, it cannot be true that the earth is round and at the same time it is square.  It can only be one or the other.  Nothing to do with belief, just fact.  I cannot be both man and woman.  It cannot be both below freezing outside and above freezing.  A truth by definition is exclusive.
> 
> The application this has to religion is that you cannot both believe Christ to be truth and at the same time believe Buddha to be truth.  That doesn't make sense.  So if a man believes Jesus Christ to be truth, how does it not make sense that he also believe that the "other options" are false?  That is the nature of truth.  The same is applicable to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.
> 
> As for the second part of your statement, "You can believe the way you want But I am not going to ha tees because I think different," this is only true if what the other person believes is not true.  If I believe that the earth is round and you believe that it is square then only one of us can be right.  If it turns out that the earth is in fact round then I would be right and you would be wrong.  There is NO middle ground of "we were both right" because we both REALLY believed in our position.  One is right and one is wrong.  This applies to the teachings of any religion.  IF Christianity is truth (not saying it is but just making a point)  then all other religions are false (nature of truth.)  Further, if one of the tenants of Christianity is that those who do not know Christ in life will not get to know him in death and if Christianity is truth then it makes sense, through the definition of truth, that any person who does not know Christ would be excluded from heaven.
> 
> THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE'S PERSONAL SALVATION OR BELIEFS, I AM NOT PIUS ENOUGH TO GUESS AT THAT.  I AM JUST ATTEMPTING TO CLEAR UP A DEFINITION.



Precisely.
To go one further, if we can.
We are not here speaking of "peas are better than spinach...and I don't care what you say"
And I know you make that point...for we are discussing the nature of reality...not of individual tastes.
Yet so often it seems we are willing to take matters of individual taste and elevate them to a place of truth/lie...or right/wrong...and we will even go so far as to find the scriptures to make our case for loving peanuts over cashews...

Yet God is always far more interested, no, _only_ interested in the heart's motive for anything.
The other thing we so often hate....and I mean hate in the most forceful way it can possibly be taken and expressed is the notion that God's work in some may bring them to actually discern our own motives better than ourselves.

If there is one place each and every man has always dwelt, and upon which every man likes to consider himself an authority...it is _himself_.
Men are loathe to admit they may be better known of others than themselves. 
Because it becomes apparent that a man who doesn't even know himself...really knows nothing at all.

Consider all of this in light of the gospel truth...and even in the anecdotes in scripture.
 Jesus comes and shows us without a doubt...we are blind. We know nothing...of ourselves and our own condition, nor of God.
(Knowing one always helps in knowing the other.)
Perhaps the easiest example by which our brother Peter has graciously allowed our own hearts to be exposed...includes him.

"even if they all deny you, I shall not" "I am ready to go to prison and to death with you..."
But Jesus knew Peter better than Peter.
Just as he does us. All.

Now we can all sit around and say...well that was Jesus and kinda make it a thing of the past...and even if we admit it's still true spiritually...at least there's no one telling me when I say "I don't care what you think....I know the Lord and I am going to do what I want to do!"

But that is simply not so.
There is authority in God's house.
There is authority in the Lord's name...both to do...and to forbid.
Now, for the most part we have come to a place where we are convinced nothing matters...just do what you can scripturally/biblically  or somehow justify and it's all OK.

We look at Paul...another man after Jesus ascension...and see he also had insight...and authority.
He wasn't fooled by what men gave as reasons for their motives...and he earned himself many enemies, and rightfully so...so he could learn how God mercifully even deals with the stiff necked.
See, Paul didn't care what he had to go through to learn of Jesus...and he came to see even being despised and reviled by those for whom he had lain down his life was nothing...because it moved him to seek comfort and relief from the Lord...which he did...and always gave him more revelation of Jesus. And that's why Paul so ably and staunchly proclaimed over and over...that it is Jesus alone, the knowledge of Jesus alone, that is sufficient in and for every need of man, in every circumstance.
The revelation of who Jesus is is what sets us free, comforts us, gives us strength, bathes our hearts in joy, causes us to persevere. 
We ask for wisdom...and God shows us Jesus!
We ask for relief...and God shows us Jesus!
We ask for escape...and God shows us Jesus!
We ask for justice...and God shows us Jesus!
We plead for life...and God shows us Jesus!

Now, even with Paul we may say...well that was then...God doesn't work that way anymore.
Paul may have had insights and authority to speak to disciples of their errors..."but I know Jesus and no one is going to tell me anything"
Nope that was the "apostolic" age...now we got a church on every corner...we don't need that kinda stuff anymore....look how powerful Christianity is...why...the USA itself is a Christian nation.
We got every flavor of church for every palate, a veritable smorgasbord of Jesus...look how good things are!
Nah, no one can tell me nothin...cause I know Jesus and what I do is OK!
I'll never deny him...
I always and only do what God approves...
I only wanna please God, I don't care what you think...
And besides...like I said...you ain't no Paul...and you sure ain't no Jesus.

The truth is God still does things the precise way he has always done them.
His spirit in man. 
First Jesus, the firstborn of many brethren.
Then those who have followed.

There are those who will tell you things...even seeming spiritual and religious things, to bring you into bondage.
And there are those who will tell you things, because they know God. And they know God better than you...and also know you better than you.

It is true for all of us.
God works the same way he always has...through Jesus.

It doesn't matter if we want it a different way...."Can't I just read a book in my study and learn all about you..."
Nope.
"You are going to interact with other members of the body, you will hear things you don't want to hear, be told things you do not want to be told..."

And to the extent you are stiff necked when you know you have been told by me...but prefer to say "well that's not the Lord, that's just some other guy who says he's a believer...and try to keep resisting by simply thinking I am not able to speak to you through any member I choose..."

Then we discover this, as I have discovered this...God prefers not to shame us...but if need be, he will pull our pants down in public to make it plain that willful rebellion and disobedience is not going to be tolerated in his house, amongst his children...and also, that that was not our first warning.

No, wishing doesn't make anything so.

And as much as we may sometimes wish it's all always just a matter of "well, it's just your opinion against mine...and you're no better than me..."
Well, there have been times I thought I was only speaking or thinking that of "just a brother"...when it was really God I was resisting.

Jesus doesn't lord it over us for his pleasure, but for our good.
But let none of us make any mistake:

Jesus is Lord.


----------



## auctioner

gdog25 said:


> The Bible says there is only one Name given to men by which they can be saved. That name is Jesus. (Acts 4:12)
> 
> It is against the rules to say that name in a lodge of freemasons. (That would be a sectarian religion-masons accept anyone that believe in a supreme being as do they accept any political party but you can't talk sectarian party politics in a lodge.)
> 
> Jesus was God incarnate (Mt 16:15-16)
> 
> To not recognize and acknowledge that Jesus was God in the flesh is to deny His deity.
> 
> I do not want to be anywhere that the name of my Savior Jesus Christ cannot be spoken.




Who told you guys that you cant speak of Jesus in a lodge. This is not TRUE. Once again some uninformed people talking about something they don't know anything about.


----------



## Harley45

auctioner said:


> who told you guys that you cant speak of jesus in a lodge. This is not true. Once again some uninformed people talking about something they don't know anything about.



Bro. Thats because most (not every one)of these people that speaks against the freemasons that know nothing about freemasons, rely on GOOGLE SEARCH more than they do the word of GOD


----------



## Israel

It really has nothing to do with Google or any other search engine....except the engine of him who searches the hearts and tries the reins.
If all the folks on here decided to get together and start a club and thought to call it "The Humble Servants of Jesus", and protested as loudly and vehemently as they could that the bible would be their only source of rule and guideline, I, for one, would have no less to say about that than about the Masons.
That's even after they got together and found a cure for cancer, childhood obesity, and discovered a way to keep Obama's use of the word "I" to under three hundred per speech.


----------



## pileit

Israel said:


> It really has nothing to do with Google or any other search engine....except the engine of him who searches the hearts and tries the reins.
> If all the folks on here decided to get together and start a club and thought to call it "The Humble Servants of Jesus", and protested as loudly and vehemently as they could that the bible would be their only source of rule and guideline, I, for one, would have no less to say about that than about the Masons.
> That's even after they got together and found a cure for cancer, childhood obesity, and discovered a way to keep Obama's use of the word "I" to under three hundred per speech.





What if those same people got together with the same ideas and just called it the Word of Faith Church, would you still oppose it?


----------



## Israel

Absolutely, if they made joining "their" church a matter of oaths, and/or allegiances,  "their"baptism and/or pledges.


----------



## leroy

Editorial from the Christian Index on compromising that somewhat applies to this



> As a pastor I would occasionally have to compromise in order to keep my job or push forward my agenda.
> 
> On one occasion I remember a very disquieting conversation I had with a church member who owned a restaurant that had a bar. The restaurant was an upscale eating establishment, but all kinds of beer, wine, and mixed drinks were served at the bar.
> 
> On the Sunday of the aforementioned conversation I had just preached a sermon on the evils of beverage alcohol. The restaurant owner was berating me for my wholesale condemnation of strong drink. He stated, “Your sermon portrayed me as a perpetrator of evil and I don’t appreciate it. It paints me in a bad light and could give my children an unfavorable impression of me.
> 
> “I run a respectable business,” he continued, “and I can recall at least four times that you have preached on the evils of alcohol. I think we have all heard enough on that subject. In fact, if you will cease and desist from preaching on the curse of alcohol I will give you and your wife a gift card that will allow you to eat in my restaurant twice month as long as you are our pastor.”
> 
> Well, it sounded like a pretty good deal to me, but I asked him if I could address the subject of alcohol on the Sundays he and his family were absent. He agreed to that arrangement. So, we reached a happy compromise. I would never preach on alcohol on any Sunday the restaurant owner attended church and he would give me a gift card that would grant me and my wife 24 visits to his establishment each year. In fact, I felt like I got the best end of the deal.
> 
> Now, are you incensed over what I have just shared? If you are not, you should be. No self-respecting, God-called preacher could make such a weak-kneed, devil-inspired, hatched-in-Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- kind of compromise. What I just shared with you did not happen. I never made a compromise with a restaurant owner, not for a free meal, not for multiple free meals, not for a partnership in the restaurant, not for any reason.
> 
> And yet, compromise is the order of the day. For example, our government is operated on the basis of earmarks, concessions, and compromise. It is commonly known that there are senators and representatives whose votes on legislation can be bought by adding earmarks that will benefit them personally and/or their constituents.
> 
> Capitol Watch, an organization that seeks to defend Americans from ineffective government and wasteful spending, recently stated, “… our elected officials are ready and willing to prostitute themselves [to anyone willing to pay] and defile a system meant to protect Americans.”
> 
> When earmarks fail to get legislators to acquiesce, there are other tactics used to get congressmen to compromise – tactics like pressure, prodding, pushing, and promises of promotions. All kinds of coercion would be fair play in the game of political persuasion – I wouldn’t rule out waterboarding.
> 
> Bill Moyers (whose views are often anathema to me) and Michael Winship recently wrote an article in which they stated, “White House ‘town meetings’ [are] just for show. What really happens – the serious business of Washington – happens in the shadows, out of sight, off the record.”
> 
> In the same article the authors described an energy bill by saying, “It grew fat with compromises, carve-outs, concessions, and out-and-out gifts,” expanding from 648 pages to 1,400 as it spread its largesse among big oil and gas, utility companies, and agribusiness.”
> 
> Gary Hirshberg said, “When you compromise, you become a commodity and then you die.” If that is true, and I believe it is, we need to call 911, because our nation is in desperate need of some kind of a life-saving intervention.
> 
> I really wish our government could get to the place where legislative votes were simple up-and-down votes based on the virtue and value of the proposed legislation – no earmarks, no lobbying, no coercion, no paybacks, no favors, and no compromise.
> 
> *Compromise may be the norm for politics, but it must never be the norm for Christians. While compromise is “giving in to get along,” there is one person in the universe with whom we cannot compromise*.* God Almighty will not compromise with you or with anyone else.
> 
> Charles Stanley stated, “Lowering your standards (compromise) weakens your character, hurts your personal testimony, and hinders your prayer life. While you may believe you’re making accommodations in just one area, every aspect of your life will be affected.”
> 
> Stanley added, “For example, once honesty has been breached in some form, it becomes easy to stop upholding the truth elsewhere. If you have compromised on a principle that should have been non-negotiable, you may cease to think in terms of right and wrong.”*The New Year, 2010, must not be a year of compromise for those of us who name the name of Christ. Compromisers eventually destroy themselves. Only those who stand for truth and righteousness will become the change agents for the Kingdom of God.


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## auctioner

leroy said:


> That sums it up in just a few words. You cant believe masonic principle and christian principle without a conflict so take your pick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can because I know what both are Obviously you dont
Click to expand...


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## Israel

auctioner said:


> leroy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can because I know what both are Obviously you dont
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you have no idea what a jealous lover the Lord is.
> I am only beginning to find out myself.
> Does that mean I don't have areas that I am confident he is addressing and will address?
> Hardly.
> But unless we want to argue it is Christ+something else that makes us into whole men...we are deceived and speaking like lost sheep.
> 
> We don't live by christian principle...nor any other principle.
> Either Christ is our life...or not.
> How he works that out in each of us is according to his good pleasure.
> But please, don't ever be deceived into thinking it is ever Christ, and something outside of Christ that God has given us to be wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and life.
Click to expand...


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## Tony Two Tone

*Straight from the head hog of the troth!*

"What we must say to the crowd is: We worship a God, but it is the God that one worships without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say, so that you can repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: -The Masonic religion must be, by all of us initiates of the high grades, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, Adonai[the God of the Christians] whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, his barbarism and repulsion of science -if Lucifer were not God, would Adonai and his priests slander him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately so is Adonai. For the eternal law is that there is no splendor without shadow, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, because the absolute can only exist as two, because darkness is necessary to light to serve as its compliment, as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, as the brake to the locomotive ... The true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, equal to Adonai, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is fighting for humanity against Adonai, God of Darkness and God of Evil."             

           - Albert Pike, Confederate General, 33rd Degree Mason and Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, address to the 23 Confederated Supreme Councils of the World, 14 July 1889


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## Ronnie T

Tony Two Tone said:


> "What we must say to the crowd is: We worship a God, but it is the God that one worships without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say, so that you can repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: -The Masonic religion must be, by all of us initiates of the high grades, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, Adonai[the God of the Christians] whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, his barbarism and repulsion of science -if Lucifer were not God, would Adonai and his priests slander him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately so is Adonai. For the eternal law is that there is no splendor without shadow, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, because the absolute can only exist as two, because darkness is necessary to light to serve as its compliment, as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, as the brake to the locomotive ... The true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, equal to Adonai, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is fighting for humanity against Adonai, God of Darkness and God of Evil."
> 
> - Albert Pike, Confederate General, 33rd Degree Mason and Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, address to the 23 Confederated Supreme Councils of the World, 14 July 1889




I wouldn't mind reading something a little more recent than the above.

I would also like to know if his writing represents the policy of the mason's, or was he booted out of the mason's after publishing the above?


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## leroy

auctioner said:


> auctioner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can because I know what both are Obviously you dont
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see you yourself verified masonic principle which was in a nutshell all religions are equal one no better than another. This can also be found on numerous masonic sites pro not anti. Christian belief is Jesus is the only way all others are false. Now tell me they dont conflict. I have spoke my peace and Im done
Click to expand...


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## auctioner

leroy said:


> auctioner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see you yourself verified masonic principle which was in a nutshell all religions are equal one no better than another. This can also be found on numerous masonic sites pro not anti. Christian belief is Jesus is the only way all others are false. Now tell me they dont conflict. I have spoke my peace and Im done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Albert Pike is not the end all to be all and you are  still speaking from Google next first hand knowledge
Click to expand...


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## Israel

I really don't care how well you know the Mason's, their doctrines, their good deeds, their heart and soul.
One doesn't need to stifle their gorge rising at the smell of something rotten to get it into their mouths to know it's bad for you. Just to get "first hand knowledge".

I have my first hand knowledge in what it produces, not a bit of revelation of the Lord Jesus, not one acknowledgment of his primacy in all things...just a lot of silly frat boys whose devotion to secret societies, goofy handshakes, hidden wisdom and ridiculous posturing about "their" group demonstrates quite clearly how antichrist it is.

It's very clever the way you keep falling back to "first hand knowledge"...because the only way one would meet your understanding of it would be...to join...by taking infernal oaths and declaring ungodly allegiances.

You still have no idea of the spirit using you, do you?


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## ddd-shooter

Israel said:


> I have my first hand knowledge in what it produces, not a bit of revelation of the Lord Jesus, not one acknowledgment of his primacy in all things...



I agree with this.


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## auctioner

ddd-shooter said:


> I agree with this.



In masonry as in AMERICA you are free to worship as you choose right or wrong I choose to believe in Jesus Christ as do you but others may not


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## Jeffriesw

auctioner said:


> In masonry as in AMERICA you are free to worship as you choose right or wrong I choose to believe in Jesus Christ as do you but others may not



Auctioner, I agree with you, We are all completely free to worship as we please, as it should be.

But the point Israel and others are trying to make is that we as professed believers in Jesus Christ should not be joining ourselves to the unbelievers, yoking ourselves to them, marrying to them, going into business with them or making and type of covenant with them.


2 Corinthians 6:14:

   14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 


Ephesians 5:8:

   8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light


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## Tony Two Tone

*Freemasonry is Classic Paganism*



Ronnie T said:


> I wouldn't mind reading something a little more recent than the above.



Here are some examples:


The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, by Manly Palmer Hall, 1976 (p. 65) explains Masonic teaching further: 

The true Mason is not creed-bound. He realizes with the divine illumination of his lodge that as a Mason his religion must be universal: Christ, Buddha or Mohammed, the name means little, for he recognizes only the light and not the bearer. He worships at every shrine, bows before every altar, whether in temple, mosque or cathedral, realizing with his truer understanding the oneness of all spiritual truth. 

The seven volume History of Freemasonry, (p. 1721, vol VI)  by Albert Mackey, discusses various pagan gods and the people who worshiped them. Among those pagan deities featured in drawings included with the text are Ashtaroth, Abraxas, Vishnu, Dagon, Nergal and Baal. The text states: 

“They were all Characters of human origin in the Mythologic ages designed as the Saviors of Men, each one emphatically the representative Christos, or Christ of his particular Nation; and the religious system designed to restore the lost and fallen race of Man.”  

The Meaning of Masonry, by Lynn Perkins Published in 1971, CSA Press, in pages 54-55 explains: 

Now, therefore, why is Jesus the Christ not mentioned in the Masonic Ritual of the first three degrees? Those who ask this question should remember that Masonry has been, and is now, attempting to promote the idea of a universal brotherhood, a dwelling-together of all peoples on earth in harmony and peace. Though Avatars have come to all people at different times with the same essential message, nevertheless the Christian Avatar is still not acceptable to some peoples. The brotherhood of man, however, can be established upon the Fatherhood of God, which could and should be a universal unifying synthesis of sufficient power to draw all men together. Masonry proclaims the universal sovereignty of the All-Father, for it is He, the I Am That I Am, who has sent every divine messenger into the world of humanity to teach men the way, the Truth, and the Light. The ancient teachings were projected on the earth plane by the great teachers--Avatars, divine messengers, messiahs, way-showers, and exemplars, elder Brothers, who at the behest of the Great Architect came into flesh from the Celestial Lodge at different times and to different races of men. Jesus of Nazareth was sent to be a light to the world to some branches of the human race, but other branches have had, and do now have, their Buddha, their Krishna, their Zoroaster, their Confucius, their Mohammed. Masonry declares that all these peoples, of whatever religion or creed, are children of God born into a particular race, religion, or creed to derive whatever benefits and self development they need, or are capable of, on their long journey back to the Celestial Lodge. As all men live and move and have their being in the Creator, all men are potential Brothers. Hence Masonry emphasizes no one Avatar in its Ritual more than another; and Masons all over the world express their first allegiance to God, as the Universal Father. . .


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## leroy

Swamp Runner said:


> Auctioner, I agree with you, We are all completely free to worship as we please, as it should be.
> 
> But the point Israel and others are trying to make is that we as professed believers in Jesus Christ should not be joining ourselves to the unbelievers, yoking ourselves to them, marrying to them, going into business with them or making and type of covenant with them.
> 
> 
> 2 Corinthians 6:14:
> 
> 14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
> 
> 
> Ephesians 5:8:
> 
> 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light





Thank you swamp runner! you hit it on the head!


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## auctioner

leroy said:


> Thank you swamp runner! you hit it on the head!



I gotcha we should check a mans religious beliefs before we allow him to live in this country eat in restaurants give him medical treatments or allow him in our church go to our schools ect. I think Obama has a job for people like you


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## Jeffriesw

auctioner said:


> I gotcha we should check a mans religious beliefs before we allow him to live in this country eat in restaurants give him medical treatments or allow him in our church go to our schools ect. I think Obama has a job for people like you




No, Only before you bind yourself to them in a covenant.

I have no problem with other people's religious beliefs or lack there of.
 I work with them, eat with them, talk to them, hunt with them, play golf with them, and have them over to my house. Some are good friends and some are not.

BUT, I will not marrying one (Already married), I will no go into business with one, I will not worship with one or anyway otherwise bind or yoke myself to them with any type of lasting agreement, contract or covenant.


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## Ronnie T

I wonder if anyone has ever fished a bass tournament with an unbeliever.

Aren't you surprised that this subject has 196 comments?


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## earl

Ronnie T said:


> I wonder if anyone has ever fished a bass tournament with an unbeliever.
> 
> 
> 
> I have . And what they say about Baptist and beer is true.
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you surprised that this subject has 196 comments?






Nope. It's harder to sort the enemy out when they are us.


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## Israel

earl said:


> Nope. It's harder to sort the enemy out when they are us.




Enemies are wonderful things to have, love them wisely.


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## auctioner

Ronnie T said:


> I wonder if anyone has ever fished a bass tournament with an unbeliever.
> 
> Aren't you surprised that this subject has 196 comments?



One of my good friends was one of the 8 people  killed by the suicide bomber last week go kill some for me please


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## leroy

auctioner said:


> One of my good friends was one of the 8 people  killed by the suicide bomber last week go kill some for me please


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## jmharris23

I think this one has had enough commentary. Let's move on....


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