# renegade accuracy



## PopPop (Nov 12, 2010)

I have been having accuracy trouble with my 50 cal. Renegade. I have been shooting a .490 patched ball over 70  to 110 grains of Pyrodex RS. My groups run between 6 and 8 inches at 100 yards. I do not consider this acceptablefor hunting deer. I have been thinking about trying conicals and saboted bullets. I would really like to hunt with this rifle but I need the confidence of better accuracy and any help would be really appreciated.


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## tv_racin_fan (Nov 12, 2010)

Try reducing the amount of powder. You probably will get much better accuracy down around 80 grains of powder.


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## PopPop (Nov 12, 2010)

I have tried down as low as 70 grains and the accuracy did not improve much and the trajectory was horrible.


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## SSGN_Doc (Nov 13, 2010)

What thickness patch are you running.  My .50 likes  .015 lubed patches and I run 75 gr of FFg Shockey's Gold.  I'm only shooting out to 50 yds but the groups are good enough to have a 5 shot ragged hole.


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## PopPop (Nov 13, 2010)

I am not sure of the patch thickness, they are TC patches. I shot some 295 grain Powerbelts over 90 grains of Pyrodex RS today and was able to do 6 inch groups out to 100 yards. This is the load i will be using next week for the Alabama blackpowder season. We will see how it goes. Thanks for the help!


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## SgtPat (Nov 17, 2010)

I believe the renegade has a fast twist for conicals and is probably to fast for round ball.


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## FrontierGander (Nov 17, 2010)

90GR rs With the 295gr powerbelt was my renegade load.


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## SWAMPFOX (Dec 11, 2010)

What SgtPat said. If memory serves me, the rate of twist is about 1:35. Maybe someone else here knows for sure.


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## killitgrillit (Dec 12, 2010)

the renegade should have a 1-48 twist good for either roundball or conical


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## majg1234 (Dec 15, 2010)

1:48 twist..... if your gonna shoot a PRB try different patch thicknesses and/or load a felt wad over the powder you'll be amazed @ how much the little felt wad can tighten up a group,use it with a conical for the same effect,for the PRB around 80gr should work well


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## ironhead7544 (Dec 18, 2010)

You didnt say what sights you were using.  The stock sights are hard to index for me.  I replaced them with a square rear blade and a patridge front.  
For best accuracy try real FF powder.  Switch to a .495 ball.  Get some pillow ticking and wash it 2 times.  Cut the ticking into strips.  When you load put the colored side down and line up the stripes parrallel to the front sight.  Use a sharp knife to cut the patch even.  For patch lube get some water soluble cutting oil from NAPA.  Mix 50/50 with water.  Soak the strips and let them dry.  Start out with a 60 gr charge and work up.  
That should help your accuracy some.


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## Whiteeagle (Dec 18, 2010)

Put a wonder wad over the powder, lubed patch with rb, and swbb between each shot. Works for me!


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## godogs57 (Dec 18, 2010)

My renegade loves 110 grains of Pyrodex Select and a No Excuses conical bullet. I would tend to think your barrel would like a conical better than a PRB for what it's worth.

Good luck!


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## kaslumber (Dec 20, 2010)

*Renegade*

After firing with a round ball, find one of the patches downrange. Is it blown out? If not, probably not a problem with the patch. If so, get a thicker patch, or, try a double patch. I lube my patches on both sides. Seems to prevent my patches from blowing out.

My Renegade likes the T/C Maxi-Ball and 110 grns of FFg. Kicks like a mule, but accurate, and deadly on deer or hogs.

2"-3" groups off of sandbags at 100 yds.


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## markland (Dec 20, 2010)

Yep the Renegade does have a 1-48 twist and is a combo twist that works very well for full bore conicals but not quite fast enough for many sabots and too fast for roundballs.  In my 54 I had I could use about 60-70grs of Pyrodex and nothing more and shot pretty well with a patched round ball, but my favorite load was 110grs of Pyrodex with the Hornady Great Plains bullet and would shoot very nice groups at 100yds.  Most sabot rounds I tried shot decent but did reduce powder to 80-100grs in those loads.


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## godogs57 (Dec 20, 2010)

Markland, your 54 cal Renegade load was a duplicate of mine. Try the No Excuses bullet...I did and gave all of my Great Plains bullets to a friend to melt down for 45 ACP bullets....Can't begin to tell you how good those No Excuses are...you got to try you some.


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## markland (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks but I got rid of that gun many years ago, never tried the No Excuses bullet but was very pleased with the performance of the Great Plains bullets, shot 1 doe with them from stern to front and found the bullet perfectly mushroomed in the very front of the chest, other deer shot had nice entry holes and large exit holes and never lost a deer with them, although I only shot a few with it.  Good luck to you!


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## snuffy (Dec 21, 2010)

godogs57 said:


> Markland, your 54 cal Renegade load was a duplicate of mine. Try the No Excuses bullet...I did and gave all of my Great Plains bullets to a friend to melt down for 45 ACP bullets....Can't begin to tell you how good those No Excuses are...you got to try you some.



I have never heard of those bullets ( No Excuses).
Where do you get them and how do they work on game?


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## markland (Dec 21, 2010)

Do a search and you can find some info on them, all the reports looked very good for them when used in guns with proper rifling for shooting conical style bullets.


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## godogs57 (Dec 29, 2010)

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/

The fine guy that runs the site will even send you your order and bill you for it afterwards....can't say enough good things about him.


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## snuffy (Dec 29, 2010)

godogs57 said:


> http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/
> 
> The fine guy that runs the site will even send you your order and bill you for it afterwards....can't say enough good things about him.



Thank you.
 I am going to give them a try. Have you ever shot game with them?
James


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## godogs57 (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh yeah.....very good results. They were more accurate than my Great Plains bullets, and the terminal results were very dramatic. Most of the deer I have shot with them were bang flops. Punches a nice big hole due to the flat point construction of the bullet.


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## PopPop (Dec 30, 2010)

Ok guys thanks for the advice, I think that I will just limit this rifle to a range toy. It is pretty and it is fun to shoot, but I just cannot make it shoot accurately. I have spent a fortune on bullets and powder, I have replaced the front sight and added a rear aperture. I might just be expecting too much but if I miss I want it to be my fault, not the gun and I will not take a shot at game without that confidence.  Thanks all!


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## MrD (Dec 30, 2010)

I have used a factory lubed 340 maxiball with 100 gr Pyrodex in my Renegade for years. Always get good results with it. I tried sabots and they were always eratic. Maybe it was just the old Renegade didn't like sabots; I gave the rest of the pack to a friend who has good results with them. Another thing I have learned is to adjust the powder to the size bullit you're using. Load and shoot in a safe place after dark. If you see a stream of fire after the shot you have too much powder. Adjust the amount until the fire no longer streams out. Burned powder after the bullit is gone is a waste.  Hope this helps.  mrd


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## godogs57 (Dec 30, 2010)

Nope...The Renegade won't like sabots....not at all.


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## snuffy (Dec 30, 2010)

godogs57 said:


> Oh yeah.....very good results. They were more accurate than my Great Plains bullets, and the terminal results were very dramatic. Most of the deer I have shot with them were bang flops. Punches a nice big hole due to the flat point construction of the bullet.



Thats what I wanted to hear. I have been using the Barnes expanders but they are the devil to load.
I will order some soon. 
Thanks


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## godogs57 (Dec 30, 2010)

You got it....all you have to do is zip him an email and tell him what you want and he sends it to you with an invoice....nice to have a guy who trusts his customers that much. He tells you on his website to just email your order and he will take it from there....

Good luck!


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## snuffy (Jan 21, 2011)

Got my No Excuse bullets today
54Cal. 535grains
They look like they will put a whollop on something.


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## Old_School (Jan 22, 2011)

PopPop said:


> I have been having accuracy trouble with my 50 cal. Renegade. I have been shooting a .490 patched ball over 70  to 110 grains of Pyrodex RS. My groups run between 6 and 8 inches at 100 yards. I do not consider this acceptablefor hunting deer. I have been thinking about trying conicals and saboted bullets. I would really like to hunt with this rifle but I need the confidence of better accuracy and any help would be really appreciated.



I've had my share of diagnosing T/C Hawken/Renegade .50 cal accuracy issues over the years.  Most of my trouble pointed to the use of T/C's Bore Butter as a lube.  I still use it, but found I have to scrub all traces of it from my bore between shooting sessions; otherwise, it tends to build up in my bore and accuracy goes south.  

In conicals, I never had much luck with the T/C Maxi-Hunters. Had much better luck with the old 370 gr flat-nose Maxi-Balls. Even better accuracy with the Hornady Great Plains bullet, but too hard for me to load in hunting situations.

In the last couple of years, I've gone back to using .490 round ball with a BB-lubed .015 patch.  I typically push it with 75-85 gr FFF black powder (depending on rifle) and get cloverleafs most of the time.  My experiences with Pyrodex have not been as good, plus I've had misfires/hangfires in damp hunting conditions.

I hope this helps!


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## tcward (Jan 22, 2011)

PopPop said:


> I have been having accuracy trouble with my 50 cal. Renegade. I have been shooting a .490 patched ball over 70  to 110 grains of Pyrodex RS. My groups run between 6 and 8 inches at 100 yards. I do not consider this acceptablefor hunting deer. I have been thinking about trying conicals and saboted bullets. I would really like to hunt with this rifle but I need the confidence of better accuracy and any help would be really appreciated.



Try Goex FFG Black Powder. These rifles love the real thing NOT the fake pyrodex! Pyrodex comes up short in performance in side lock rifles.


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## whitworth (Jan 23, 2011)

*What is accuracy*

Hard to determine where the problem lies, over the internet.  

I've seen the cause wasn't always the "rifle".   But then how old is the rifle, and how often was it shot and how well cleaned.  

I've fired a flintlock .50 TC Hawken for over 30 years.  The flintlock always required holding the rifle, the follow through,  on the target during the plume of black powder smoke.   It required no flinching.   It requires good eyes to exactly place the open sights, at the same precise spot, every time, to achieve precise accuracy.  I found the latter took many a practice session.  

It probably is a problem, one cannot raise among friends in  a muzzleloading forum.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Jan 23, 2011)

I just saw this thread, and will add a bit, since
I have a 30+ yr old slow twist Hawken and
have tried virtually ALL combination...

Patched balls should be "tight" to load...
Don't get hung up on patch thickness specs,
but just find some type cloth that requires some
effort to seat your ball/patch combo....If your
load slides down the barrel easily, you will not
get the best accuracy...
Naturally, I will assume you cleaned your rifle
good with Hot water/brush/mop....
Use patch lube sparingly, if at all when shooting.....

My benchmark for my Hawken is hitting a coke
can at 40yds....every time.......
Hope you found the right combo for your rifle !!


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## Steve-ALA (Feb 3, 2011)

The Renegade's twist is 1 in 48, as it is with all TC sidelocks.  I do agree you need to reduce your powder to about 60-70 grains, and also check your patches after you shoot for cuts, tears, etc.  If you can see daylight thru your patches after you shoot, you need to use a thicker patch.  And lastly, find some 3FFF Goex powder and get away from Pyrodex.....


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