# I enjoy hearing from you guys



## Bob2010 (Jan 14, 2015)

I like being able to get on gon and hearing what you guys think. Seems there are some Godly folks on gon who I learn a lot from. I also like being able to ask hard questions or ask about stuff that may rub my Pastor the wrong way on here. Stuff I question but don't really want to stir the pot with in my circle of friends. Thank you for that everyone.  My daily scripture was this.

Acts 3:19

19CensoredRepent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,Censoredthat times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

I got to wondering.  I have certain vises that are hard to break.  I assume everyone has some degree of that issue.  So I say God its me. I did it again!  Sorry.  Going to try not to do it again.  God must hear the same prayer from the same person over and over again. Does he get tired of hearing it? Does any scripture say if he gets tired of hearing it? Thoughts?


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## formula1 (Jan 14, 2015)

*Re:*

Everyone struggles with one thing or another.  But we can't free ourselves from the bondage.  Grace is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us who do not deserve His righteousness and the power of Christ to live our lives in the flesh in Him.  As we commit to growing in Him, I believe the things we struggle with begin to fade away and lose their power over us. It won't happen overnight but through His power it will happen.  In the meantime when you fall, repent and confess, and He is faithful to forgive.  And those refreshing times in Him are so wonderful!!!  God Bless!!!


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## rjcruiser (Jan 14, 2015)

I enjoy it as well.  Makes me question what I believe...makes me search for the answer...makes me get in the Word and study.

We learn just as much or more from people we disagree with than those we agree with imo.


And no, He doesn't get tired of hearing our prayers.  I believe He is disappointed with us when we sin and struggle with the same sin....just as a parent is disappointed with a child who does wrong.  But, we as parents love to hear our children confess...and God does as well.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 14, 2015)

I too feel I can ask questions on here and get answers from people of different faiths and beliefs.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 14, 2015)

Hello Bob, Glad your not offended by other opinions. As another said, we learn from opposition. Not that we learn their view as truth but rather that we are motivated to search to validate our views. I am glad that you ask the hard questions here and not to friends or pastor. Religion can be very divisive and no sense in stirring the pot. People can easily get "labeled". I would hate to see that happen to you.


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## Day trip (Jan 15, 2015)

Yes, the ebb and flow.  Some days it feels so right and I think I have it somewhat figured out, other days, I question whether I know anything.  This forum is a good thing, I too love to hear of others struggles and questions.  It opens the mind to things I may never consider.  
When Religeon makes the most sense to me, it is so easy and natural.  When it's confusing, it's almost always due to trying to form an opinion with too little information, the wrong point of view or from trying to remain in complete control.  Suffering is God's greatest gift to mankind.   Learning to avoid suffering by no longer fighting against his will or accepting your trials like a man always leads to God.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 15, 2015)

Day trip said:


> Yes, the ebb and flow.  Some days it feels so right and I think I have it somewhat figured out, other days, I question whether I know anything.  This forum is a good thing, I too love to hear of others struggles and questions.  It opens the mind to things I may never consider.
> When Religeon makes the most sense to me, it is so easy and natural.  When it's confusing, it's almost always due to trying to form an opinion with too little information, the wrong point of view or from trying to remain in complete control.  Suffering is God's greatest gift to mankind.   Learning to avoid suffering by no longer fighting against his will or accepting your trials like a man always leads to God.



Wow, you just described me.
I wonder if we over emphasize having to understand it all as a need for salvation?
When I first joined this forum I thought salvation was easy.
On this very forum I have learned that one must believe in the Trinity, Oneness, works, lordship salvation, an already came "2nd coming", grace only, spiritual kingdom, physical kingdom, spiritual resurrection, physical resurrection, He11, everlasting death, Jesus is not God, Demons, power of Satan, Satan was defeated, communion, water baptism, spiritual baptism, Holy Spirit cessation, Holy Spirit gifts, Holy Spirit is the Bible, figurative Bible,  literal Bible, free will, and predestination. 

Before joining I thought a Christian was someone who repented from the thought that they could save themselves from sins, to a belief that Jesus died for their sins. That Jesus is the Son of God, who died, resurrected, and ascended to Heaven.

I guess I still mostly believe that. It is a learning experience to see all of the different belief systems.

I'm far from having it all figured out. The more I know, the more I don't know. Ignorance was bliss.


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I wonder if we over emphasize having to understand it all as a need for salvation?
> 
> Absolutely!  The biggest hinderance to athiests is that "it doesn't make sense".   But to Christians we DON'T UNDERSTAND is our mantra.  The difference being, if it doesn't make sense, it is because someone so wise as we deem ourselves can't make sense of it, then it's garbage.  That is pride and a barrier to God.  On the other hand, if we say, "we don't understand",  we leave our minds open to God's grace and understanding.
> Trying to know every last detail and having to know how it's all going to end is a very dangerous thing.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

Day trip said:


> Artfuldodger said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if we over emphasize having to understand it all as a need for salvation?
> ...


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> Day trip said:
> 
> 
> > Would you say ignorant people make better Christians?
> ...


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## gemcgrew (Jan 16, 2015)

Day trip said:


> But to Christians we DON'T UNDERSTAND is our mantra.


No, it is not. 

1 Corinthians 2


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## formula1 (Jan 16, 2015)

*Re:*



Artfuldodger said:


> Day trip said:
> 
> 
> > Would you say ignorant people make better Christians?
> ...


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> No, it is not.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 2



In context I mean that if we don't understand, we are patient, waiting for illumination as opposed to saying it just doesn't make sense because we can't understand it.  We do not rely on earthly wisdom to guide us.


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## formula1 (Jan 16, 2015)

*Re:*

Turn Your Eyes upon Jesus
Helen H. Lemmel, 1922

O soul, are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Savior,
And life more abundant and free! Refrain:
Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

Through death into life everlasting
He passed, and we follow Him there;
O’er us sin no more hath dominion—
For more than conqu’rors we are!
His Word shall not fail you—He promised;
Believe Him, and all will be well:
Then go to a world that is dying,
His perfect salvation to tell!


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> No, it is not.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 2



Maybe Daytrip is saying "we don't have to understand all." 
Would you say if we don't understand all then it means we don't have the Holy Spirit?
In every nation are Christians  with great knowledge  and natives with limited knowledge. Even people without the ability to gain knowledge.

Paul only preached what was revealed. He was a prophet, we aren't. While it is true we can be guided by the Holy Spirit and salvation is of the Lord, what we don't understand might not be revealed yet.

I'm sure that every Christian doesn't understand everything in the Bible nor has everything Biblical been 100% revealed to every Christian.
We as Christians are constantly gaining knowledge daily as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

But perhaps staying ignorant to certain things has given some Christians the assurance they need. Sometimes trying to understand the Trinity, Oneness, freewill, election, spiritual kingdoms, physical kingdoms, works, grace, born again, 2nd coming, etc., etc., can cause confusion, worry, more unanswered question, etc.

If these answers haven't been provided by the Holy Spirit, what does it mean? Does it mean we don't have the Holy Spirit or that he just hasn't revealed everything to us yet?

In this respect the ignorant person or one who doesn't seek these answers lives in a type of bliss. They have just accepted that they have salvation and don't need to know anything else.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

If knowledge is from God and growing in Christ is from Christ, then all we have to do is accept this knowledge & growth as they give it.
We can't get it by Earthly wisdom. Not having earthly learning procedures is bliss.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 16, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> But perhaps staying ignorant to certain things has given some Christians the assurance they need. Sometimes trying to understand the Trinity, Oneness, freewill, election, spiritual kingdoms, physical kingdoms, works, grace, born again, 2nd coming, etc., etc., can cause confusion, worry, more unanswered question, etc.
> 
> If these answers haven't been provided by the Holy Spirit, what does it mean? Does it mean we don't have the Holy Spirit or that he just hasn't revealed everything to us yet?
> 
> In this respect the ignorant person or one who doesn't seek these answers lives in a type of bliss. They have just accepted that they have salvation and don't need to know anything else.



I don't understand how someone could be a Christian and be content in staying "ignorant."

We are commanded to search the scriptures....we are encouraged by scripture to get off of the "milk and honey" and get to the "meat of the Word."  To stay ignorant is to not progress.  To not progress makes it extremely easy to be turned away from the Word of God to false teachers.  Many warnings in scripture about that.



I see what Day Trip is trying to say...and I do agree to a point.  That being said, with scripture and with the Holy Spirit, we can have confidence in what the Bible says and the faith we have brings about that confidence.  But that is why it is called faith.  There will be illogical items (like Christ rising from the dead) that we must believe.  If we don't, we are not saved.


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## hobbs27 (Jan 16, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> I don't understand how someone could be a Christian and be content in staying "ignorant."
> 
> We are commanded to search the scriptures....we are encouraged by scripture to get off of the "milk and honey" and get to the "meat of the Word."  To stay ignorant is to not progress.  To not progress makes it extremely easy to be turned away from the Word of God to false teachers.  Many warnings in scripture about that.
> 
> ...



Preach it brother!


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> I don't understand how someone could be a Christian and be content in staying "ignorant."
> 
> We are commanded to search the scriptures....we are encouraged by scripture to get off of the "milk and honey" and get to the "meat of the Word."  To stay ignorant is to not progress.  To not progress makes it extremely easy to be turned away from the Word of God to false teachers.  Many warnings in scripture about that.
> 
> ...



Big difference between remaining ignorant and not understanding.   Forming an opinion with a poor understanding is foolish.  This forum almost has to be excused from my comment because this is where we test our theories and argue our ideas so that we can learn from others.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

My point is that many Christians are more content and blissful without seeking too much information about Jesus and the Bible.
They have salvation assurance by remaining ignorant. They are born again and they truly believe. They are content.

I would say that I was like this most of my life. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I got interested in "understanding."
Before then I did have a basic knowledge of Christianity but I wasn't trying to achieve a "deeper" understanding. 
I was happy being ignorant. I was even less confused. I would say just the opposite about false teachers, It would have been hard for a false teacher to lead me astray. Because of my ignorance I wasn't under the influence of being lead astray because I wasn't searching for understanding.
Now that I am learning and understanding, I could be lead astray because of my search. Before in my ignorance, I just followed the teachings of my denomination. I might have been safer under their care. Now I'm vulnerable to attack. False preachers would love me. They might have their sights on me. 
Before they just ignored me because they knew I wasn't searching for the "Light."


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

Day trip said:


> Big difference between remaining ignorant and not understanding.   Forming an opinion with a poor understanding is foolish.  This forum almost has to be excused from my comment because this is where we test our theories and argue our ideas so that we can learn from others.



How or from whom does one achieve this understanding?
Holy Spirit, Bible, preachers, teachers, or all of the above?
We've had this discussion on here before concerning how much understanding we can achieve on our own vs. what is given to us from God.
Maybe God gives us his Word and his Holy Spirit but we still need something  from ourselves to receive it.
This does place "man" in the equation. I'm OK with that.

Salvation is from God but is all knowledge given in the same way? Don't we have to be willing?


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## rjcruiser (Jan 16, 2015)

Day trip said:


> .  This forum almost has to be excused from my comment because this is where we test our theories and argue our ideas so that we can learn from others.



I hear ya.  I've thrown some interesting things out here on the forum as well.



Artfuldodger said:


> My point is that many Christians are more content and blissful without seeking too much information about Jesus and the Bible.
> They have salvation assurance by remaining ignorant. They are born again and they truly believe. They are content.
> 
> I would say that I was like this most of my life. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I got interested in "understanding."
> ...



Again, I don't think you can be a Christian and blissfully ignorant.

Maybe I'm going to far...maybe you can be a Christian and be content with being ignorant....but for me, I just can't be.  I want to know more...I want to be able to say more than "well, I was taught this and I just believe it."  I want to know the why...and the how.  

If we are called to walk with the Lord....if we are to "pray without ceasing"....if we are to grow in our faith, how can one do that being blissfully ignorant.  

I just think that those who are blissfully ignorant will get to the gates of Heaven and the Lord will tell them that He never knew them.

I guess that means....put this one on your list of requirements for salvation.   But seriously, it isn't a requirement...more of a result.


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> How or from whom does one achieve this understanding?
> Holy Spirit, Bible, preachers, teachers, or all of the above?
> We've had this discussion on here before concerning how much understanding we can achieve on our own vs. what is given to us from God.
> Maybe God gives us his Word and his Holy Spirit but we still need something  from ourselves to receive it.
> ...



Knowledge comes from the bible, preachers, prayer groups, etc.  understanding, or wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit.  You can't push a chain and you can't force understanding no matter how hard you try.  We can deny God but if we are honest, we cannot deny his "free gift" of grace, understanding.  
How much of a role do we actually play in this?  I wonder?   One could read and study for years but before he is deemed ready, it will not make sense.  I think we have to want it and ask for it over and over sometimes like Gentile woman in the city of Tyre from Mark 7:24-30.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 16, 2015)

rjcruiser said:


> I hear ya.  I've thrown some interesting things out here on the forum as well.
> 
> Again, I don't think you can be a Christian and blissfully ignorant.
> 
> ...



I agree mostly with what you are saying but maybe it depends on what we are yearning to learn.
What is it we are searching for in the Bible? If we are truly trying to learn to be more like Jesus, showing love, help, and forgiveness, then I agree.
I'm not so sure free will vs election, works vs grace, trinity vs Oneness, if God planned the Old Testament to show us we needed Jesus, if the Kingdom is here now, and things like this are a necessary part of showing the result of salvation.
Yes showing love, obedience, forgiveness, and helping others through understanding/bible study is a result of salvation. 
I'm not so sure the History lessons are as needed. 
I'm torn as to when too much knowledge, searching, study, etc. might start to hinder.

I'd hate to think one studies so much because of pride. To show off to others what a great knowledge we have. Gaining an understanding of the whole Bible but not even able to forgive our neighbor.
What about learning so much to just defend your personal beliefs as a form of pride. Like it could just turn into some type of competition of showing off to each other.


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## Day trip (Jan 16, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> I agree mostly with what you are saying but maybe it depends on what we are yearning to learn.
> What is it we are searching for in the Bible? If we are truly trying to learn to be more like Jesus, showing love, help, and forgiveness, then I agree.
> I'm not so sure free will vs election, works vs grace, trinity vs Oneness, if God planned the Old Testament to show us we needed Jesus, if the Kingdom is here now, and things like this are a necessary part of showing the result of salvation.
> Yes showing love, obedience, forgiveness, and helping others through understanding/bible study is a result of salvation.
> ...



This^^^^^^^^


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## hummerpoo (Jan 16, 2015)

When I read GEM’s reference to 1 Cor. 2 (#11), a supporting scripture came to mind.
After having read the comments that follow it seems to relate to several, or that’s the way I see it.

Mat. 16:
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 
17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 
18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

If we look only at vs. 18, Peter is the rock.
If we look at vss. 16 and 18, the gospel is more likely the rock.
If we look at vss. 16, 17, 18, and 19, God’s providential revelation is the rock.


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## Bob2010 (Jan 16, 2015)

I definitely have a thirst to learn more. If I completely understand everything about the bible the first time I read it then why keep reading it. I just have to believe what God tells me in the bible. Example of that for me is this. I see freewill in the Bible. I also see election in the bible.  I must believe they are both true. Just because my brain can't understand how doesn't mean God can't have both. God is not limited by what I can comprehend. I think God wants me to be searching.  He wants me to try to understand because I'm seeking him. Does not mean he has to give me an explanation. It's great when I get experience from everyone on gon. It helps and encourages me. That's true until I get so caught up in conflicting scripture ( may not be conflicting to God )that I forget to just have faith.  I am trying so hard to understand something that I neglect to pray or ask God to show me about what I don't understand.  It's like Satan is distracting me from the stuff that really matters. It's pride for me when I think I should be capable of understanding everything about God. God is far more advanced than my capabilities.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 17, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> God is not limited by what I can comprehend.


Are you? If so, where is freewill?


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## Bob2010 (Jan 17, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> Are you? If so, where is freewill?



Yes I am. If I wasn't I might be a brain surgeon instead of Landscaper. Free will is do I want to go to school for 10 years to try to comprehend something I may not be capable of comprehending? My free will choice is. No I don't. I was elected to be a landscaper but I have the choice to try to be a brain surgeon. Both free will and election exist here too. I don't have to understand why they both exist.  Other than God's word says they both do.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 17, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> Yes I am. If I wasn't I might be a brain surgeon instead of Landscaper. Free will is do I want to go to school for 10 years to try to comprehend something I may not be capable of comprehending? My free will choice is. No I don't.


If you are limited by what you can comprehend, was "yes I do" ever a viable option? Or was your choice determined by the limit?



Bob2010 said:


> I was elected to be a landscaper but I have the choice to try to be a brain surgeon. Both free will and election exist here too. I don't have to understand why they both exist.  Other than God's word says they both do.


You say they both do, but your argument says otherwise.


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## Bob2010 (Jan 17, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> If you are limited by what you can comprehend, was "yes I do" ever a viable option? Or was your choice determined by the limit?
> 
> 
> You say they both do, but your argument says otherwise.



You have moved beyond my capabilities to comprehend what you are saying. The bible supports both free will and election.  You can choose to believe it does not. I can choose to believe it does.  The coolest part is I don't have to understand why.  Because God knows why and that's enough. While I am at peace with God's knowledge and understanding exceeding mine. You may drive yourself nuts trying to figure it all out. I don't want to drive myself nuts. I'll get as far as I can in understanding and trust God to show me the rest in his time.


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## hobbs27 (Jan 17, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> If I completely understand everything about the bible the first time I read it then why keep reading it. I just have to believe what God tells me in the bible. Example of that for me is this. I see freewill in the Bible. I also see election in the bible.  I must believe they are both true. Just because my brain can't understand how doesn't mean God can't have both. God is not limited by what I can comprehend. I think God wants me to be searching.  He wants me to try to understand because I'm seeking him. Does not mean he has to give me an explanation. It's great when I get experience from everyone on gon. It helps and encourages me. That's true until I get so caught up in conflicting scripture ( may not be conflicting to God )that I forget to just have faith.  I am trying so hard to understand something that I neglect to pray or ask God to show me about what I don't understand.  It's like Satan is distracting me from the stuff that really matters. It's pride for me when I think I should be capable of understanding everything about God. God is far more advanced than my capabilities.



The hardest thing to overcome in studies is ones own presupposition that has come from being preached to and taught to about things that aren't neccesarily true.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 17, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> You have moved beyond my capabilities to comprehend what you are saying.


Not intentionally.


Bob2010 said:


> The bible supports both free will and election.


What is your meaning of the the words "free will" and "election"?


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## Bob2010 (Jan 17, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> Not intentionally.
> 
> What is your meaning of the the words "free will" and "election"?



It's a trap!  Why must you try to trap me again. I was thanking you for your veiws.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 17, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> It's a trap!  Why must you try to trap me again. I was thanking you for your veiws.


No trap. No need to panic.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 17, 2015)

This discussion on freewill vs election is a prime example of the type of Knowledge I was talking about.
Bob2010 has decided not to pursue it to the point of it driving one nuts. Could it possibly be the work of Satan making us pursue knowledge we may not need?
Could some study lead us away from doing God's work or lead us away from a more useful topic of learning?
I'm not just saying the free will/election  topic isn't important but just picking it as an example of when is too much, too much?
When I was ignorant, I can't ever remember thinking about election or free will.


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## Bob2010 (Jan 18, 2015)

I think when the point comes that my need to understand exceeds my need to have a relationship with him it's a problem. I thought about Gem this morning.  I would ask him if he believes God has complete power over Satan?  Scripture says he does. So why would God not just remove Satan from our lives. Why does God allow suffering in this world.  He simply gives us a choice to use those things to honor Christ. It's our choice.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 18, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> I would ask him if he believes God has complete power over Satan?  Scripture says he does.


Yes. God is all power.


Bob2010 said:


> So why would God not just remove Satan from our lives. Why does God allow suffering in this world.


Because Satan serves God's purpose in our lives. It is the same with suffering. These things serve a good purpose in the perfection of the saints. 

"Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1:2-4)


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## Bob2010 (Jan 19, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> Yes. God is all power.
> 
> Because Satan serves God's purpose in our lives. It is the same with suffering. These things serve a good purpose in the perfection of the saints.
> 
> "Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1:2-4)



By giving us Satan.  He gave us a choice to consider it joy or misery.  He wants us to choose him.


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## Artfuldodger (Jan 19, 2015)

I think Bob and Gem both agree Satan has the purpose to cause us suffering.
Gem sees this suffering as maybe God's way of showing us why we have God?
Bob sees this suffering as maybe God's way of  testing us or tempting us to see if we choose him?
Gem's way is God showing/causing and Bob's way is God letting us choose the temptations or not.

James 1:2-4 seems to support our choice sense it uses trials, testing, and endurance.
Unless all of our endurance to become perfects is from God. If this is true why would the testing and trials be necessary?
Why was Jesus tested and tried? I'm sure it was Satan who did the testing but God lead Jesus to the wilderness for Satan to do this. I understand he had to do everything a man has to do to make the sacrifice for us but did he also have free will?
Using this free will Jesus had the capability to change God's plan. Why would God who is in total control give a man, even Jesus, the free will to change his plan. 
Even God can't change his plan.
Interesting the more I think about it.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 20, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> By giving us Satan.  He gave us a choice to consider it joy or misery.


Can we choose to leave it all alone and just be?


Bob2010 said:


> He wants us to choose him.


A god who does not get what he wants is not God at all.


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## Bob2010 (Jan 20, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> Can we choose to leave it all alone and just be?
> 
> A god who does not get what he wants is not God at all.



we are choosing God or Satan. We may not know that's what we are choosing but it's one or the other. Who are we to claim we know what God wants.  We may know we are called to do something.  But God may want the complete opposite of what we want or think God should want.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 20, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> we are choosing God or Satan.


But is our will or choice so free, so powerful, that we can choose neither? Can we resist God and Satan at the same time?

In other words, if our will is influenced by another, is it free?


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## Bob2010 (Jan 20, 2015)

I just can't get there Gem. It seems to big of stretch. Maybe your right.  Scripture does say we will be a slave to something.  I just want to set you free Gem. Seems a heavy obligation you must carry around.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 20, 2015)

Bob2010 said:


> I just can't get there Gem. It seems to big of stretch. Maybe your right.  Scripture does say we will be a slave to something.


Yes


Bob2010 said:


> I just want to set you free Gem. Seems a heavy obligation you must carry around.


Thanks, but you are about 25 years too late.


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## Bob2010 (Jan 22, 2015)

I am grateful I can choose to be God's slave instead of a slave to my sin.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 22, 2015)

I am grateful that God does not rely upon my choice.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 23, 2015)

hummerpoo said:


> I am grateful that God does not rely upon my choice.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 24, 2015)

hummerpoo said:


> I am grateful that God does not rely upon my choice.


Yes, God's will is not subverted.


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