# Harry Potter?



## christianhunter (Apr 2, 2010)

Are the Book and movie series evil?
Does it promote the occult?
Is it dangerous,in a Christian household?

DBBB-had a thread with only about 5 hits,it was from The Popes perspective.

What does the average Christian have to say about it?

Any takers?


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## Bugeye (Apr 2, 2010)

I've read'em all. no different than snow white or sleeping beauty or any other childrens storys.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 2, 2010)

they are worldy and witchcraft and occultic. some of satans best strategies... he loves when people say, "ah it aint gonna effect me none.... i can do it..."

satan loves the books in the homes of believers... and God hates those books in the homes of believers... so, thats all i need to base my decision.  how can a Christian justify taking his time (which really begins to God anyway) to read a book on witchcraft, which God abhors???  when they could have been reading His Book.... the only Book that matters.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 2, 2010)

It's evil, course I think Walt Disney is evil too.  Have you seen "Over the Hedge"?  The hunter is protrayed as a blood thirsty moron.  Same as in Bambi.  The personification of animals is bad.  Course I think the Bernstein Bears are evil too. Yeah, it is evil.


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## Crickett (Apr 3, 2010)

My kids don't like Harry Potter! I guess one of the main reasons they don't is we don't encourage them to read/watch those types of movies/books. My daughter says they are lame & not real. Most of her friends at school don't care for Harry Potter either.


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## Bambibuster21 (Apr 3, 2010)

Modern Christainism is so confused. Just look at the holiday Easter. Eggs and bunnys and whatnot. All that is derived from Pagan Idolism. And it is condoned in a church setting. And your worried about Harry Potter?


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## jbowes89 (Apr 3, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> they are worldy and witchcraft and occultic. some of satans best strategies... he loves when people say, "ah it aint gonna effect me none.... i can do it..."
> 
> satan loves the books in the homes of believers... and God hates those books in the homes of believers... so, thats all i need to base my decision.  how can a Christian justify taking his time (which really begins to God anyway) to read a book on witchcraft, which God abhors???  when they could have been reading His Book.... the only Book that matters.



Man, your god needs to get over himself, geesh.


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## jbowes89 (Apr 3, 2010)

Bambibuster21 said:


> Modern Christainism is so confused. Just look at the holiday Easter. Eggs and bunnys and whatnot. All that is derived from Pagan Idolism. And it is condoned in a church setting. And your worried about Harry Potter?



Buddy that basically sums up religion, hypocrites at their finest.


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## tell sackett (Apr 3, 2010)

Man, this is almost funny. We have one unbeliever who gives us up the country if we observe these holidays, and now here's one griping because somebody condemns them. Ya'll need to get on the same page.


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## Dominic (Apr 3, 2010)

I think there are much better books out there for kids to read. Rowling is no Hemingway or Steinbeck, heck is barley a decent Daniel Steele. There is plently of well written literature out there for folks, especially kids.


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## Bambibuster21 (Apr 3, 2010)

Teach your kids right from wrong. that way when they read such books like Harry Potter they will know that it is FICTION. The Wizard Of OZ also had alot of the witchcraft and stuff in it......is it evil? really? come on folks. Ding Dong....the witch is dead!


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## SarahFair (Apr 3, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> they are worldy and witchcraft and occultic. some of satans best strategies... he loves when people say, "ah it aint gonna effect me none.... i can do it..."
> 
> satan loves the books in the homes of believers... and God hates those books in the homes of believers... so, thats all i need to base my decision.  how can a Christian justify taking his time (which really begins to God anyway) to read a book on witchcraft, which God abhors???  when they could have been reading His Book.... the only Book that matters.



Are you serious? I myself am a fan of Harry Potter and yes Ill admit it... I think it would be pretty awesome to travel via broom stick but we ALL know its not possible. I mean so what if a kids _tries_. I tried jumping off my porch with an umbrella because Mary Poppins could.. But I guess that movie is pretty evil too because they jumped into a sidewalk drawing made of chalk.. 

At least kids are reading something!




ted_BSR said:


> It's evil, course I think Walt Disney is evil too.  Have you seen "Over the Hedge"?  The hunter is protrayed as a blood thirsty moron.  Same as in Bambi.  The personification of animals is bad.  Course I think the Bernstein Bears are evil too. Yeah, it is evil.


I have not seen 'Over the Hedge' but Ive seen 'Bambi' countless times (one of my fav disney movies!)..
Disney actually thought about showing the hunter that took down Bambis mother but decided not to in fear it might cast actual hunters as awful people, thus no human is ever shown in Bambi.


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## nimrod (Apr 3, 2010)

I like Dr. Ron Carlson. This is an article he wrote about it. 

The “Abomination” of Harry Potter
By Jason Carlson and Ron Carlson

I’ve got some great ideas for a new series of children’s books.  Let me share some of them with you:

1) Perry Hotter and the Dirty Crack Pipe- A young boy is shipped off to live in an inner-city crack house.  In this crack house, the boy is trained in the ways of illicit drug production, use, and distribution.  Perry has wonderful adventures learning about creating more effective highs, outwitting the bad crack dealers, and teaching other young kids about the joys of drug use.

2) Perry Hotter and the Jihadist’s Bomb-belt- A young boy is shipped off to an Al Qaeda training camp.  At this training camp, the boy is trained in the covert practices of subverting American laws, developing dirty bombs, and using a sword to cut off an infidel’s head.  Perry’s amazing exploits include evading U.S. spy planes, purchasing nuclear materials from Chechen rebels, and developing jihadist literature to share with his friends at school.

3) Perry Hotter and the Prostitutes of Pleasure- A young boy is shipped off to a secretive brothel in Eastern Europe.  While living in this brothel, the boy is taught all of the most effective pimping techniques. Perry’s feats include seducing poor Russian girls with offers of employment in the west, bribing dirty police officers to look the other way, and exposing other children to the pleasures of earning a living by selling their bodies.  

What do you think?  You’re shocked?!  You’re outraged?!  How could I even suggest a book series for children containing such vile and filthy material? 

To be sure, I think that these are all commonsense and appropriate responses to the evil subject matter detailed in my imaginary book series.  How could anyone, yet alone a Bible believing Christian, think that this is appropriate subject matter for a series of children’s books?  You don’t have to look very far into scripture to find that illegal drug abuse, terrorism, and sexual exploitation are all topics that break the heart of God.

However, while my imaginary series of children’s books, featuring these demonic evils, would be condemned outright by any God-fearing person, there is currently a real children’s book series on the market, filled with equally dangerous and unbiblical evils, that is being bought by the millions, even by Christian families.  This is the Harry Potter series, which has recently released a new book, Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince.  In its first day of sales alone, this newest addition to the Harry Potter series sold almost 7 million copies; and will probably sell upwards of 15 million+ by the time it’s all said and done.  While this reality should shock and disturb our society, what we find instead is widespread praise for the “magic” of Harry Potter and how he has “enchanted” millions of kids into reading.  What’s even more disturbing is the vast number of Christian children and parents flocking into bookstores to buy their family a copy, while our pastors remain silent about the dangers found within Harry Potter’s pages.

The Harry Potter series is wholly based on the dark arts of witchcraft, sorcery, and spiritism.  These are all Satanic practices that are absolutely condemned by God throughout the Bible.  In Deuteronomy 18:9-14, God tells us that these practices are an “abomination” in God’s sight.  In Galatians 5:19-21, God says that sorcery is a “work of the flesh” and that those who practice sorcery “will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.”  And Revelation 22:15 tells us that sorcerers will not be present in the glorious city of the New Jerusalem.  

Christian brothers and sisters, if God condemns the activities glorified in the Harry Potter series, and if by God’s standards Harry Potter himself will spend eternity separated from God, how can we as believers ever justify the purchasing of any Harry Potter book?  How can we justify allowing our children, the children God calls us to raise “in the training and admonition of the Lord” (Ephesians 6:4), to read books that revel in such clearly unbiblical practices?  We would never allow our children to read stories that glorify illegal drug abuse, murder, or sexual exploitation, so why do we lower the standards when it comes to witchcraft and sorcery?

Being “salt and light” to the world (Matthew 5:13-16) sometimes requires that we as believers take a stand against things that the world defines as popular, cool, and even beneficial.  No matter how many Harry Potter books are sold, no matter how much acclaim Harry Potter receives, and no matter how great people think it is that Harry Potter has caused kids to put down their video games to read a book, sorcery will always be an “abomination” in God’s eyes.  And if God views the subject matter of Harry Potter as an abomination, then we as Christians have no choice but to do likewise.


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2010)

Of course it's evil even if the apostates on this forum don't admit it.


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## THREEJAYS (Apr 4, 2010)

nimrod said:


> I like Dr. Ron Carlson. This is an article he wrote about it.
> 
> The “Abomination” of Harry Potter
> By Jason Carlson and Ron Carlson
> ...



Well said.


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## SarahFair (Apr 4, 2010)

I dont understand why yalls knickers are in a wad! They are simple books! No where in there does it say 'Hey kids preform this spell and  cast Jesus and God out of your hearts..' 

I think its sad how many Christains consider anything that is not talking about God or might question (after its twisted around to views like 'Harry Potter and the Crack Pipe') the christain faith is an abomination, an outrage, Satins work...

I dont think Harry Potter was created by the "devil" or in any way questions why people choose the christain faith. It talks of NO faith. 
I guess books on buddhism, wicca, hinduism, etc are all satins work too.


Why do yall act so threatened? If you feel you and your families faith is at risk from the dreaded Harry Potter books I say your faith is not that strong.


Oh... And I thought Jesus didnt hate?


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## ted_BSR (Apr 4, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I dont think Harry Potter was created by the "devil" or in any way questions why people choose the christain faith. It talks of NO faith.
> I guess books on buddhism, wicca, hinduism, etc are all satins work too.
> 
> 
> ...



Yes to the first part they are all Satan's work.

To the second part, I do not feel threatened, just trying to be a good leader for my family.

Jesus hates sin.


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## SarahFair (Apr 4, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> Yes to the first part they are all Satan's work.
> 
> To the second part, I do not feel threatened, just trying to be a good leader for my family.
> 
> Jesus hates sin.



Jesus does not hate a sinner..
I just feel like a lot of christians are over labeling what is evil just to make sure they get that spot in heaven.

I dont think I or my children will go to hades for reading harry potter or other books on religion..
But then again my beliefes are much different than the "traditional christian"


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## NCHillbilly (Apr 4, 2010)

Good grief.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 4, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Jesus does not hate a sinner..
> I just feel like a lot of christians are over labeling what is evil just to make sure they get that spot in heaven.
> 
> I dont think I or my children will go to hades for reading harry potter or other books on religion..
> But then again my beliefes are much different than the "traditional christian"




No, Jesus does not hate a sinner, only the sin.  There is only one way to get your spot in Heaven, and it doesn't have anything to do with a person's actions or opinions.

Ironically, today is Easter Sunday.  The day that Jesus rose from the dead, after being curcified to atone for our sins (which he hates).  It's all about today!


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## christianhunter (Apr 4, 2010)

"Harry Potter" is more than just a childrens book.I have heard of several women who have read it,don't know of any men as of yet.I have strong convictions,but will hold back until the posting stops.I was hoping for a discussion type Thread,I forgot where I was for a moment.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 4, 2010)

I am a Christian....but I also love fiction....movies, novels, etc....I my faith in Jesus Christ is strong enough for me to enjoy everything....and can tell the difference between make-believe....Harry Potter is a great book and story.....along with all the other fantasy tales...it is entertainment! there are more things to worry about then a childrens book.....I remember reading Fear Street and Goosebumps....witches, vampires, etc....great books!


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## pnome (Apr 4, 2010)

_*None of it is real. *_

If you think these books are evil, then you're saying that you believe in witches, wizards, flying broomsticks...etc.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 4, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> I am a Christian....but I also love fiction....movies, novels, etc....I my faith in Jesus Christ is strong enough for me to enjoy everything....and can tell the difference between make-believe....Harry Potter is a great book and story.....along with all the other fantasy tales...it is entertainment! there are more things to worry about then a childrens book.....I remember reading Fear Street and Goosebumps....witches, vampires, etc....great books!




You are an adult.  A child's mind is much more impressionable.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 4, 2010)

pnome said:


> _*None of it is real. *_
> 
> If you think these books are evil, then you're saying that you believe in witches, wizards, flying broomsticks...etc.



Not sure how they travel, but witches are definetly real.  Ever been to Haiti?


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 4, 2010)

When I was a child my parent's taught me the difference between real and fake and good and bad.....it ain't hard....if you feel that they are the "devil's" book then you must be very closed minded....


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 4, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> When I was a child my parent's taught me the difference between real and fake and good and bad.....it ain't hard....if you feel that they are the "devil's" book then you must be very closed minded....



its amazing how some folks can see a child of God being obedient to his Savior... being godly... being a doer of the Word...  and call them 'closed minded'...


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## wbwright (Apr 4, 2010)

For the record I have always enjoyed the Harry Potter movies but I have found reviews on the Focus on the Family website to be very helpful for me to distinguish what movies may or may not be acceptable in my home as the spiritual leader there....I have also been a big fan of Focus on the Family's radio program for several years now. The Bible is very clear that not one of us is perfect and we have to be aware of the things that make us stumble in our Christian walk. Hope some of you find this link interesting and informative.

http://www.pluggedin.com/videos/2001/Q4/HarryPotterandtheSorcerersStone.aspx


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 4, 2010)

a person with a strong faith in their beliefs should not feel threatened by others and what they do or believe....


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 4, 2010)

Just curious, what is your opinion of C.S. Lewis books then?



BeenHuntn said:


> they are worldy and witchcraft and occultic. some of satans best strategies... he loves when people say, "ah it aint gonna effect me none.... i can do it..."
> 
> satan loves the books in the homes of believers... and God hates those books in the homes of believers... so, thats all i need to base my decision. how can a Christian justify taking his time (which really begins to God anyway) to read a book on witchcraft, which God abhors??? when they could have been reading His Book.... the only Book that matters.


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## wbwright (Apr 4, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Just curious, what is your opinion of C.S. Lewis books then?



Don't forget J.R.R. Tolkien...his books are recognized in many circles as being Christian allegories also.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 4, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> a person with a strong faith in their beliefs should not feel threatened by others and what they do or believe....



i can assure you that it has nothing to do with "feeling threatened"... i see it as being faithful to:

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

if God calls witchcraft evil, and He does, why would a child of God want to read a witchcraft book when his Lord abhors such?

if you are going to be a "doer of the Word"... you should not read books that are considered evil by God.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 4, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Just curious, what is your opinion of C.S. Lewis books then?



i have never read one, so i cannot give an opinion based on experience. but i know what they are about. based on that, i have no use for them.

i dont have much time to read. if i can find the time to read, its gonna be the only Book that matters...


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 4, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> i have never read one, so i cannot give an opinion based on experience. but i know what they are about. based on that, i have no use for them.
> 
> i dont have much time to read. if i can find the time to read, its gonna be the only Book that matters...


 
So you have read the Harry Potter books?


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 4, 2010)

jbowes89 said:


> Buddy that basically sums up religion, hypocrites at their finest.



true 89... man-made religion and hypocrisy go hand in hand. thats one of the great things about Christ. He is not religious...  with Him, there is no hypocrisy. if you ever want to know the difference between Christ and religion... let me know.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 4, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> So you have read the Harry Potter books?



no, but i have studied them, thoroughly. i dont read books that do not bring glory to Christ... i dont need to read potter to know its a book on witchcraft, fantasy and sorcery.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 4, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> no, but i have studied them, thoroughly. i dont read books that do not bring glory to Christ... i dont need to read potter to know its a book on witchcraft, fantasy and sorcery.


 
Just checkin. That's about all I need to know.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

I might delete this thread just because its so stupid


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## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I might delete this thread just because its so stupid



Please do. 
I feel like people _some_ people are putting down books because it takes you to an imaginary "what if" world. There is nothing wrong with "what if", we all day dream.

Im reading J.R.R Tolkiens 'The Lord of the Rings' series now and to say its devil work just because it has a wizard in it is just plain silly! 
All these books do have good endings. They are good vs evil and Im thinking that since the good ALWAYS wins they are not crafts of the devil.


If you want to know of something pretty wicked in my view it would be the 'Left Behind' series. 
It was written to drive fear into the christains heart saying that if they dont accept Christ they are going to be left behind in a world of disaster umongst the likes of thieves and murderers. Awesome example. Drive and control people with fear.
This is just silly to me. I do not believe God would leave ANYONE behind. 
What about people who never get to hear about God, who are raised in these 3rd world countries and only hear of their beliefs?
(You dont have to answer that... I already know the asnwer.)


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## centerpin fan (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Im reading J.R.R Tolkiens 'The Lord of the Rings' series now ...



Great books.  If you like them, check out _The Silmarillion_, also by Tolkien.


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## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I feel like people _some_ people are putting down books because it takes you to an imaginary "what if" world.



Guilty as charged.


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## christianhunter (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I might delete this thread just because its so stupid



Since you are a Pastor,I would like to ask,why?

Are the questions in the OP stupid?

Is it the responses,or both?

It is a legitimate question, with no alterior motives.I would simply like to see what the average Christian,and unbelievers think about the fictional books and movies.Since you  are a Pastor,I really would like to know why this Thread is stupid.In your opinion,are The Harry Potter series of books and movies of the occult?


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## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Since you are a Pastor,I would like to ask,why?
> 
> Are the questions in the OP stupid?
> 
> ...



You asked the question..
What are your views?


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## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

No, Harry Potter is not evil.  He's not real and the books aren't real.  Magic, the occult and other REAL things are very much evil and I would not want my children reading those books.  Why?  Because they are children.  Their imaginations are running wild and they do not have the ability to seperate fiction from reality the way I do.

I have seen the movies.  I liked them and would watch them again.  They have not, however, caused me a second's worry about Christ or my salvation and I have no desire to explore cultic practices after watching them....because I'm an adult.  I'm grounded in my faith and I am able to seperate real from not real.

I would not let my children read them or watch the movies because they are still growing and maturing and it is my job as "dad" to make sure they grow and mature well and in the nuture of the Lord.  Once I am confident that they are well grounded both in faith and maturity, they are welcome to read or watch for entertainment purposes.  

But it is my job as dad to protect them from things that will affect them or confuse them.  You let a five year old watch that stuff and they believe it is possible....whether you want to admit it or not.


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## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Magic, the occult and other REAL things are very much evil and I would not want my children reading those books. Why?  Because they are children.  Their imaginations are running wild and they do not have the ability to seperate fiction from reality the way I do.
> 
> I have seen the movies.  I liked them and would watch them again.  They have not, however, caused me a second's worry about Christ or my salvation and I have no desire to explore cultic practices after watching them....because I'm an adult.  I'm grounded in my faith and *I am able to seperate real from not real.*



And exactly how do you do that?   How do you determine that the magic in one book is real, but the magic in another is not?



> I would not let my children read them or watch the movies because they are still growing and maturing and *it is my job as "dad" to make sure they grow and mature well and in the nuture of the Lord.*  Once I am confident that they are well grounded both in faith and maturity, they are welcome to read or watch for entertainment purposes.
> 
> But it is my job as dad to protect them from things that will affect them or confuse them.  *You let a five year old watch that stuff and they believe it is possible.*...whether you want to admit it or not.



Indeed, they very well might believe it for the rest of their lives.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> What about people who never get to hear about God, who are raised in these 3rd world countries and only hear of their beliefs?
> (You dont have to answer that... I already know the asnwer.)



I'll answer because you probably don't have a Biblical view of the above.

There is no one that has not "heard about God."  God has instilled Himself in the hearts of all people....how?  Through His creation.  All people will answer to God for their sin.  The only way to Heaven is through Christ Jesus...His Death...His resurrection.

Look at Paul's message to the pagans living in Lystra in Acts 14:15-18.  These people had never heard of Jesus Christ, yet Paul references to nature and to their conscience the fact that God has given witness of Himself through these things.



Huntinfool said:


> No, Harry Potter is not evil.  He's not real and the books aren't real.  Magic, the occult and other REAL things are very much evil and I would not want my children reading those books.  Why?  Because they are children.  Their imaginations are running wild and they do not have the ability to seperate fiction from reality the way I do.
> 
> I have seen the movies.  I liked them and would watch them again.  They have not, however, caused me a second's worry about Christ or my salvation and I have no desire to explore cultic practices after watching them....because I'm an adult.  I'm grounded in my faith and I am able to seperate real from not real.
> 
> ...



I'd agree with the above.  I've actually not read a HP book or watched an HP Movie.  

It is crazy to see what passes as a "G" movie these days.  Weird I know...but I watch movies very differently when my kids (3 & 5) are watching them.  I notice a lot more and it is amazing how they are like little sponges and pick up on things that are not good.


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## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

I just can not believe yall feel your childrens salvations is so threatened by Harry Potter. Why can you just not explain to them its not real? 
The teletubbies and barney are not real.. Do you think your children are going to go on for the rest of their lives believing lala land is real? Or maybe if your kids stay after school they will be able to play with barney..

Lets take handy mandy and his tools. His tools talk and think for themselves. Must be some form of magic..
Or even how about the christians 'veggie tales'.. They are veggies jumping around and talking by some form of "magic". Do your kids sit at the table poking around the peas and corn wondering when its going to talk back?


See just how silly it can get? Harry Potter is harmless and if you let your kids believe that it is evil they are  going to grow up with the FEAR that will drive them to God. Im betting God doesnt want you to be driven to him by FEAR.


My 2 year old and my 4 year old have watched all the Harry Potter movies with my SO and I and they are not trying to become that. They know it is about as real as veggie tales or barney.


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## thedeacon (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I might delete this thread just because its so stupid



Speaking for myself I would be most thankful to you.

Ignorance has hurt the church and Christianity more than any evil, sin, witchcraft or anything else. I have seen my share of ignorance in this thread.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> See just how silly it can get? Harry Potter is harmless and if you let your kids believe that it is evil they are  going to grow up with the FEAR that will drive them to God. Im betting God doesnt want you to be driven to him by FEAR.
> 
> 
> My 2 year old and my 4 year old have watched all the Harry Potter movies with my SO and I and they are not trying to become that. They know it is about as real as veggie tales or barney.




Hmm...lets see.

Proverbs 1:7
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
         Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
         And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding


The list could go on and on...but I think you get the point.  We are to Fear the Lord.  If you don't fear Him, you don't know Him.



Funny thing...my daughter who is turning 5 in a week asked my wife and I this weekend...."Are princesses real?"  Referring to Belle....Ariel.....Cinderella...the rest of the Disney Princesses.  So yes...they can think that the animated stories are real.


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## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Hmm...lets see.
> 
> Proverbs 1:7
> The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
> ...



The Bible was also written by MAN who loves to control with FEAR...


And atleast your daughter had the smarts to ask..


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## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> The Bible was also written by MAN who loves to control with FEAR...



II Tim 3:16
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousnees.



			
				SarahFair said:
			
		

> And atleast your daughter had the smarts to ask..



Yes....I'm a bit biased, but she is exceptionally bright for a little girl


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## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Since you are a Pastor,I would like to ask,why?
> 
> Are the questions in the OP stupid?
> 
> ...




I don't think the question was stupid...nor ALL the answers... but I do think its an individual thing. 

I guess each child is different, and so its up to the parent to decide. 

But on a whole, do I think HP and other fictional series like this are dangerous to the faith? 

No. 

When I was a child, my favorite movies were "The Never-Ending Story" and the Princess Bride. 

But for the life of me I have never been able to find the "fireswamp," the "zoo of death," nor the "pit of despair." 

Nor have I been to "Fantasia" or threatened by "The Nothing" 

I have also never taken a ride around the universe on the back of a "luck dragon" while holding my "Atreyu" medallion. 

I loved Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. 

But none of them were real. 

Christ was and I believe is. I know there are some on here who may deny the deity of Christ. 

But it'd be mighty hard to disprove his existence. 

So while I loved my fairy tales, I learned quickly that Christ was real and I had to decide what to do with Him.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> The Bible was also written by MAN who loves to control with FEAR...
> 
> 
> And atleast your daughter had the smarts to ask..



Now here dear Sarah, you and I will have to part ways....

I'll defend the Scriptures with my life.


----------



## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> Now here dear Sarah, you and I will have to part ways....
> 
> I'll defend the Scriptures with my life.



To each their own. Im not putting anyone down for the way they raise their families..
I personally am just not comfortable with the fact that Im being scared into something.

The important thing is though, we can both agree there is a God 
You just believe your way and Ill believe mine


----------



## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm very good with to each their own....

but the Scriptures never scare someone into anything. 

I will agree that some men might, some who are well-meaning and some not so much.

But the Scriptures only tell the Truth. If it scares you then it's probably for good reason.


----------



## SarahFair (Apr 5, 2010)

I remember in a christain camp (camp maranatha) the preacher would scream into the mic telling us 8+ year old children how we were going to burn into the lake of fire. 
My mom came on parents day and was so appalled she was ready to take us home then but I had to stay for the horseback riding..

Its those people who have helped me to where I am at now..


----------



## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I remember in a christain camp (camp maranatha) the preacher would scream into the mic telling us 8+ year old children how we were going to burn into the lake of fire.
> My mom came on parents day and was so appalled she was ready to take us home then but I had to stay for the horseback riding..
> 
> Its those people who have helped me to where I am at now..



And I hate you had that experience, all I'm saying is don't blame it on the Scriptures, and don't blame it on God. 

Blame it on a mis-guided although possibly well meaning (and technically correct if you were not to put your faith in Christ) man


----------



## PWalls (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I don't think the question was stupid...nor ALL the answers... but I do think its an individual thing.
> 
> I guess each child is different, and so its up to the parent to decide.
> 
> ...



Excellent post


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

pnome said:


> And exactly how do you do that?   How do you determine that the magic in one book is real, but the magic in another is not?
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they very well might believe it for the rest of their lives.



pnome, the "brainwashing" argument is the weakest of them all.  

If you want to stick with it, I agree....it is my job to brainwash by kids.  Heck, I've already brainwashed them that you shouldn't hit somebody and that they like broccolli.  Will it never end?

I "brainwash" my kids about things that I know to be true.  That's my job as dad.  You have done the same to your kids if you have any.


----------



## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> pnome, the "brainwashing" argument is the weakest of them all.
> 
> If you want to stick with it, I agree....it is my job to brainwash by kids.  Heck, I've already brainwashed them that you shouldn't hit somebody and that they like broccolli.  Will it never end?



I can understand that you, a believer in the magic of the  book called the bible, would think that he was doing something good and healthy for his children by teaching them to worship it's words.

But, you didn't answer my question.  Exactly how do you explain to them that the magic in the bible is real, but the magic in Harry Potter is not?  

How do you, yourself, discern the difference?

For me, Hogwarts and Heaven have approximately the same probability of being "real"


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

pnome said:


> I can understand that you, a believer in the magic of the  book called the bible, would think that he was doing something good and healthy for his children by teaching them to worship it's words.
> 
> But, you didn't answer my question.  Exactly how do you explain to them that the magic in the bible is real, but the magic in Harry Potter is not?
> 
> ...



The author of Harry Potter represents it as fiction....the author of the Bible does not.  Clear enough?

Also....I do not worship the Bible, or the words in it.  I worship Christ because of the relationship I have with him.  I don't know Harry Potter personally.


----------



## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> The author of Harry Potter represents it as fiction....the author of the Bible does not.  Clear enough?



So, author intent is your judge of fact vs. fiction?  As long as the author presents it as non-fiction, then it's real.  So we can go ahead and accept everything written, so long as we find the book in the "non-fiction" section at Barns and Noble?

Interesting.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

pnome said:


> So, author intent is your judge of fact vs. fiction?  As long as the author presents it as non-fiction, then it's real.  So we can go ahead and accept everything written, so long as we find the book in the "non-fiction" section at Barns and Noble?
> 
> Interesting.



Cmon pnome...I think that is a stretch on your part.  

We've had countless threads on the accuracy of the Bible and how it proves itself to be correct through the thousands of prophecies.


----------



## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Cmon pnome...I think that is a stretch on your part.
> 
> We've had countless threads on the accuracy of the Bible and how *it proves itself to be correct *through the thousands of prophecies.



Interesting.  

You're right though, we have had many threads on the subject.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Apr 5, 2010)

I saw a witch on a bugs bunny cartoon once-maybe we should ban them too.  Some of y'all need to join that church near me that holds book burnings. You'd fit right in.


----------



## Jeff Phillips (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I don't think the question was stupid...nor ALL the answers... but I do think its an individual thing.
> 
> I guess each child is different, and so its up to the parent to decide.
> 
> ...



Well said

I firmly believe that fantasy is important to the development of the brain! There are only 2 ways to increase IQ, working through difficult puzzles/brain teasers/etc. and reading!

The Harry Potter novels did a great service to this recent generation. It turned them into readers.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

pnome said:


> So, author intent is your judge of fact vs. fiction?  As long as the author presents it as non-fiction, then it's real.  So we can go ahead and accept everything written, so long as we find the book in the "non-fiction" section at Barns and Noble?
> 
> Interesting.



Nope....you asked a very specific question and I gave you a very specific answer.

Bottom line is that the Bible has proven truth in my life.  If I believe that, then I am obligated to teach that to my children as a parent.  We teach what we know to be true.  

I am sure there are lots of muslims out there who would say the same about their book.  My answer is simply....we shall see in the end.

The thing is that I've come to the realization that I'm not obligated to prove to the muslims or the pnomes of the world that I'm right.  I am only obligated to raise my children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.  There is only one who I will answer to for the way I've raised them.  

That is not to say that "I don't care what you think".  But I can't prove God to you.  I know you call that a weakness in my position.  There is nothing I can do about that truly...other than to show him to you through my life.  That is all I can do.


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Apr 5, 2010)

I have never, nor plan to let the harry potter books in my house. Or to be read by my family. Once they reach 18 and are not living in my house, they can make their own decisions.

DB BB


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Just think, back in 1865 some paranoid Christian was saying the same thing about "From the Earth to the Moon" and "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

I will simply say this.....


...the things that some people will let their two year olds watch these days is astounding to me (and I'm not just talking about Harry Potter).

elfiii, let me ask you this...do you think the moral, ethical and religious state of society is better or worse now than in 1865, or how about 1945, 1955 or 1965 for that matter?


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> I will simply say this.....
> 
> 
> ...the things that some people will let their two year olds watch these days is astounding to me (and I'm not just talking about Harry Potter).
> ...



About the same, and it doesn't have anything to do with the books people read.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> I will simply say this.....
> 
> 
> ...the things that some people will let their two year olds watch these days is astounding to me (and I'm not just talking about Harry Potter).



I concur.  Simply amazing.

I was just talking to a co-worker about a TV show I watch regularly...Amazing Race.  Would sometimes let the kids stay up and watch it as it was a clean show and it showed a lot of the World abroad.  Well...two episodes ago, they let language go through un-edited....fortunately, the kids weren't watching so my wife and I didn't have to explain that they were not supposed to say that word.  But...I will say, they'll not be watching it anymore.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> About the same, and it doesn't have anything to do with the books people read.





About the same?  Come on man.  I know I got you on that one, but be serious.  About the same?

I didn't say it had anything to do with the books we read.  But my point is that we have most certainly relaxed our standards of what is acceptable in every area...that is not even a question.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> About the same, and it doesn't have anything to do with the books people read.



That is a surprising response...although, I will say, I agree it isn't because of the books poeple read, but rather the TV they watch and the Internet trash they look at.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> About the same?  Come on man.  I know I got you on that one, but be serious.  About the same?
> 
> I didn't say it had anything to do with the books we read.  But my point is that we have most certainly relaxed our standards of what is acceptable in every area...that is not even a question.



No you don't have me on that one. You just think you do because you are predisposed to believe things are worse today than they were in 1865, 1945, 1955 or 1965.

In fact, things were much worse in 1965 than they are today. The same can be said about 1865 (slavery had just been abolished at the expense of 650,000 lives and $100 of billions in today's dollars of property destroyed) and 1945 (the end of WWII).

There is nothing new under the Sun. Satan has been busy since Adam and Eve. Still, some people just "know" things are worse today than they have ever been in the history of man. It helps them justify their predisposition, without having to be abused by the facts.

If I had to pick a time that was the worst time in human history, it would be last Friday, about 1,977 years ago. By contrast, the best time in history was yesterday, about 1,977 years ago. No other time in history comes close, on either account.



rjcruiser said:


> That is a surprising response...although, I will say, I agree it isn't because of the books poeple read, but rather the TV they watch and the Internet trash they look at.



Neither of those mediums have anything to do with it either.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Apr 5, 2010)

I agree with Elfii. Read stuff written back then-people were saying the same old exact things about morality and sinfulness and how it was the last days back then too. Some things are probably better morally now than then. How many would vote to  bring back legal public brothels in almost every town such as were common then?


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> If I had to pick a time that was the worst time in human history, it would be last Friday, about 1,977 years ago. By contrast, the best time in history was yesterday, about 1,977 years ago. No other time in history comes close, on either account.



well....thanks for bringing it back to spiritual forum material 

But as far as times are worse...why is violent crime on the rise?  # of murders...# of child abuse cases...# of assaults?


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> No you don't have me on that one. You just think you do because you are predisposed to believe things are worse today than they were in 1865, 1945, 1955 or 1965.
> 
> In fact, things were much worse in 1965 than they are today. The same can be said about 1865 (slavery had just been abolished at the expense of 650,000 lives and $100 of billions in today's dollars of property destroyed) and 1945 (the end of WWII).
> 
> ...



Whatever you say buddy....whatever you say.  I'll see your 650K lives lost with millions upon millions of abortions that make the holocaust or slavery in the U.S. pale in comparison.  

Sin has always been here and so has evil.  But what society will agree upon as "acceptable" continues to degrade over time.  It is not me wanting it to be true that makes it so.

1965 vs 2010 is laughable.  I wish our worst problems were hormone driven hippies on weed.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> well....thanks for bringing it back to spiritual forum material
> 
> But as far as times are worse...why is violent crime on the rise?  # of murders...# of child abuse cases...# of assaults?



I'm just curious as to what wickedness is occuring today that is more evil than the enslavement of a race of people by a nation professing to be founded on Christian values, or the ethnic genocide of 20 million humans based on their religion or somebody's belief they were just too stupid to live, or the crucifixion of Christ the Saviour?

I'm all ears.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Neither of those mediums have anything to do with it either.



Care to expound on that one?


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> I'm just curious as to what wickedness is occuring today that is more evil than the enslavement of a race of people by a nation professing to be founded on Christian values, or the ethnic genocide of 20 million humans based on their religion or somebody's belief they were just too stupid to live, or the crucifixion of Christ the Saviour?
> 
> I'm all ears.



The murder of millions and millions of children in the womb?  How's that?


The murder of millions of people who were just "too inconvenient to live"....I would say that's worse....but that's just me.


----------



## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> No you don't have me on that one. You just think you do because you are predisposed to believe things are worse today than they were in 1865, 1945, 1955 or 1965.
> 
> In fact, things were much worse in 1965 than they are today. The same can be said about 1865 (slavery had just been abolished at the expense of 650,000 lives and $100 of billions in today's dollars of property destroyed) and 1945 (the end of WWII).
> 
> ...



Right on elfii! People have been bad since the beginning, at least that's what scripture teaches. They are no worse than they've ever been or ever will be. 

Yes there have been times in history when people's awareness and belief in God were higher, and their moral values stronger, but people were still bad. 

In fact we're all bad, some of will just admit it and give ourselves to the only one who can make us good.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> I'm just curious as to what wickedness is occuring today that is more evil than the enslavement of a race of people by a nation professing to be founded on Christian values, or the ethnic genocide of 20 million humans based on their religion or somebody's belief they were just too stupid to live, or the crucifixion of Christ the Saviour?
> 
> I'm all ears.



What made slavery such a bad thing?  Whites were slaves as well.  Sure, there were evil slave owners...but just like you point out that times are no worse now...I think it would be difficult calling out that slavery was worse.

I'd say segregation is worse than slavery.



Huntinfool said:


> The murder of millions and millions of children in the womb?  How's that?
> 
> 
> The murder of millions of people who were just "too inconvenient to live"....I would say that's worse....but that's just me.



The real "inconvenient truth."


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Whatever you say buddy....whatever you say.  I'll see your 650K lives lost with millions upon millions of abortions that make the holocaust or slavery in the U.S. pale in comparison.
> 
> Sin has always been here and so has evil.  But what society will agree upon as "acceptable" continues to degrade over time.  It is not me wanting it to be true that makes it so.
> 
> 1965 vs 2010 is laughable.  I wish our worst problems were hormone driven hippies on weed.



Yes, I suppose you're right. Those events I referred to were just a walk in the park compared to the unbearable evil we face at every turn today. I guess 'ole Scratch has finally got us. We're doomed!

I wasn't referring to hippies smoking dope. You apparently missed that day in American History class. There were a few other things going on back then besides hippies smoking dope, like the United States being close to another civil war.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> What made slavery such a bad thing?  Whites were slaves as well.  Sure, there were evil slave owners...but just like you point out that times are no worse now...I think it would be difficult calling out that slavery was worse.
> 
> I'd say segregation is worse than slavery.
> 
> ...



Yes I guess people being denied the right to go to the same school or movie theatre as their other countrymen is indeed much worse than not having the right to go to any school or movie theatre and getting beaten, chained or killed if you thought you did have that right. My bad. What was I thinking?


----------



## pnome (Apr 5, 2010)

Elfii made my point for me. LOL


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Care to expound on that one?



I sure do. See the Reverend's words below.



jmharris23 said:


> Right on elfii! People have been bad since the beginning, at least that's what scripture teaches. They are no worse than they've ever been or ever will be.
> 
> Yes there have been times in history when people's awareness and belief in God were higher, and their moral values stronger, but people were still bad.
> 
> In fact we're all bad, some of will just admit it and give ourselves to the only one who can make us good.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> The murder of millions and millions of children in the womb?  How's that?
> 
> 
> The murder of millions of people who were just "too inconvenient to live"....I would say that's worse....but that's just me.



Then you would agree things aren't nearly as bad today as they were say back in 1941?


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 5, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Yes I guess people being denied the right to go to the same school or movie theatre as their other countrymen is indeed much worse than not having the right to go to any school or movie theatre and getting beaten, chained or killed if you thought you did have that right. My bad. What was I thinking?



Didn't realize there was such a thing as a movie theater back in 1850

really...why is slavery/servants such an evil thing?  history has always had slaves.  Now..beating/killing etc etc...that is not right.  But if they were treated properly......


----------



## secondseason (Apr 5, 2010)

I do not think it is evil and I don't think I'm going to hades for reading all of the books and seeing all of the movies.  But in case I have sinned by doing so....

NOT ONE of you will have to spend a minute in hades for any sin that I may have committed. But, thanks for worrying about me.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 5, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Didn't realize there was such a thing as a movie theater back in 1850



Ha Ha! 



			
				rjcruiser said:
			
		

> really...why is slavery/servants such an evil thing?  history has always had slaves.  Now..beating/killing etc etc...that is not right.  But if they were treated properly......



If you profess to be a Christian, the answer should be obvious. Even if you aren't a Christian, the answer should still be obvious. If the answer isn't obvious, there is nothing I can say to make it so.


----------



## WTM45 (Apr 5, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> How many would vote to  bring back legal public brothels in almost every town such as were common then?



Make sure you tell me which Tuesday the voting will be held.


----------



## christianhunter (Apr 5, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> I don't think the question was stupid...nor ALL the answers... but I do think its an individual thing.
> 
> I guess each child is different, and so its up to the parent to decide.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your opinion.It seems that the opinion of Pastors,differ as widely, as the opinions on here, have.Just a personal study that I decided to do,and it is becoming very informative.Thanks!


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 5, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I have never, nor plan to let the harry potter books in my house. Or to be read by my family. Once they reach 18 and are not living in my house, they can make their own decisions.
> 
> DB BB





and hopefully, when they reach the age of 18 and can make their own decisions... they will make the same decision you have about potter...


----------



## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 5, 2010)

i wonder if some of the "i think all books are evil and magic is satans tool" guys are so blinded by the real meaning behind Chrisitianity.....The Father who placed his son on this earth in flesh and blood to die for our sins.....I cannot believe how many people on here say they have never sinned or walk a 100% straight line!....I read mythology, fiction, etc....watch movies as well....I drink alcohol on the weekends...I listen to all types of music.....But I do know that I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and read the Bible at times....and will raise my child to do the same.....I am not going to allow my child to be sheltered....but he will be taught right and wrong


----------



## christianhunter (Apr 5, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> You asked the question..
> What are your views?



"The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter",written by David Colbert provide an interesting contrast,to the argument of fantasy and make believe.In interviews Rowlings instructs her readers to search for meanings of her Characters and names of "beings" and "places".Some words coming from Nazi Germany,"Greek Mythology",and various words coming from the Latin language.Death eaters,Blood drinkers,I think  a child of any age,or an easily misled adult, could get drawn into a maze of confusion.Education is brought forth by instruction,and literary availability.This particular debate exists in my house,between my wife and myself.I'm interested in the opinions of others on this one.I have my convictions,and I'm the head of the household.That being said,I do not force my convictions on my wife,unless they may be unmistakably evil.That has not happened yet,She likes Harry Potter,and New Moon,and I do not.She thinks they are harmless,and I do not.If I find out by conviction of THE LORD,that this is a True evil,we will deal with it then.I'm still not through yet!


----------



## post450 (Apr 5, 2010)

Huntinfool raises a legitimate issue over abortion. It pains me to see brothers who fail to even acknowledge the issue he raises as being a blight upon our society or trivializing it by comparison, most notably to an "almost" civil war. The segregation was wrong and deserved action, but mass murder of unborn children is even worse, IMHO.

Rev. Harris, you say people are evil by nature and we Christians all must agree with that, but to claim they are no more evil than they ever have been or will be seems to conflict with Matthew 24 and II Timothy 3:13 in my way of understanding. If I am interpreting those verses incorrectly I would like to hear your view. I have always respected your positions and the manner in which you have handled yourself on this forum.

Elfii, your insinuation of world being at it worst at the Crucifixion, I guess I must respectfully disagree. In my reasoning, God planned and ordained that event for our benefit. The same people who were shouting Hosanna earlier in the week were likely the ones shouting crucify him at that point, probably angry that He was not going to physically deliver them once He was arrested. I truly believe God darkened their eyes as part of his plan. I don't see how they are anymore evil than any other generation. He could have called legions of angels and destroyed mankind at the point, but through His love and mercy chose to lay down His life for our sacrifice. 

While Harry Potter can be blamed for little if any of our societies present woes, I think it is more a product of the times. My argument is that, as a society, we have gone down a slippery slope past 40 years. We have gone from The Andy Griffith Show to open homosexuality promoted during prime time, from the Beatles to Lil Wayne, from promiscuous 18 year olds to promiscuous 12 year olds, from alcohol to meth, from pornography being an illegal trade to a billion dollar corporate backed industry, from protecting unborn life to destroying it, and from the work of Christ being Christian's central focus to a constant pursuit of pleasure and hobbies.  Some of you may be isolated from this youngest generation and not even have a clue. I am not saying we are or ever were good by any stretch of the imagination, but have gone from bad to worse and this youngest generation is paying the price for it. I am not predisposed to believe anything, but society wide moral decay can become quite dangerous, look at the fall of the Roman Empire.  

WTM, no real need to vote the brothels back in, unhappily married men and women can now go to a website that is regularly advertised on national TV and find another married person to have an extramarital fling with, why bother paying for it? 

Maybe its just me, but society seems like it has either became more evil or is comprised of alot more confused folks.


----------



## WTM45 (Apr 5, 2010)

post450 said:


> WTM, no real need to vote the brothels back in, unhappily married men and women can now go to a website that is regularly advertised on national TV and find another married person to have an extramarital fling with, why bother paying for it?



Who cares?  That's their choice.

I'd simply like to see contracted sex taxed to death like all other "legit" service industries are.

And, Harry Potter?  If that measly attempt at literature worries folks, they need to just give up.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 5, 2010)

I am an expert on Nuclear Physics, though I've really never read a book on it. Just read the reviews regarding what it's about....


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 5, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> "The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter",written by David Colbert provide an interesting contrast,to the argument of fantasy and make believe.In interviews Rowlings instructs her readers to search for meanings of her Characters and names of "beings" and "places".Some words coming from Nazi Germany,"Greek Mythology",and various words coming from the Latin language.Death eaters,Blood drinkers,I think  a child of any age,or an easily misled adult, could get drawn into a maze of confusion.Education is brought forth by instruction,and literary availability.This particular debate exists in my house,between my wife and myself.I'm interested in the opinions of others on this one.I have my convictions,and I'm the head of the household.That being said,I do not force my convictions on my wife,unless they may be unmistakably evil.That has not happened yet,She likes Harry Potter,and New Moon,and I do not.She thinks they are harmless,and I do not.If I find out by conviction of THE LORD,that this is a True evil,we will deal with it then.I'm still not through yet!



all that really matters is what God thinks about potter. God hates sorcery and witchcraft. so should His children.


----------



## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 5, 2010)

then we should hate about 75% of everything out there that is on tv and movies and watch TBN 24/7?


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 5, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> then we should hate about 75% of everything out there that is on tv and movies and watch TBN 24/7?



God hates TBN (the blasphemy network), so the correct figure would be 76%...


----------



## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 5, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> God hates TBN (the blasphemy network), so the correct figure would be 76%...



THANK YOU! TBN is another way to make a buck off our Faith!   To me they are the worst type of Tv, Movies, etc....they make a mockey out of our Faith.....everytime I am changing the channel and stop by there there is a different guy with his eye's closed saying..."Somewhere in anytown USA someone is suffering, and now you'll be healed." I am sorry but that is witchcraft and sorcery! There is only one true God and Lord and savior Jesus! not Billy Bob from the Church of Fill My Wallet!


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 5, 2010)

I think this thread needs the big red button.


----------



## christianhunter (Apr 5, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> I think this thread needs the big red button.



Why?
We are learning how judgmental some of us are,without sticking to the OP.There have been several things brought off topic,that have me scratching my head.These things by Professing Christians.


----------



## formula1 (Apr 5, 2010)

*Re:*

Well, I thought I was missing something because there were so many posts. But then again, perhaps not so much.

To the OP and my brother in Christ, in principle I would at least partially agree with your point of view.  I would err on the side of caution and strive to be 'transformed by the renewing of your mind'.  I personally never read the stuff and heard only a little, but if Christ is truly the center of your focus, why go there?

Having said that, properly understood, I see no harm in the stories. Most are sensible and understand it as fantasy and if they gather enjoyment and  relaxation from fantasy stories, more power to ya. Again though, it's not my cup of tea!

When kids are involved though, your influence matters.  Parents are ultimately responsible for their children, at least for a season!

What would I do?  My 9 year old has never asked, but if he was interested, I would let him read it because I know he would not be influenced by it in the least.  But then again, his interest is in the scriptures anyway, so I got nothing to worry about.

To the rest of your comments:

1) Evil is here to stay until the ruler of this world is destroyed.  Get used to it. Whether its worse or better, I tend to worse, for so many reasons. But if you think slavery was worse, that's fine by me.  We are all slaves though until Christ Jesus sets us free.

2) He'double hockey sticks' is real and without Christ, all are condemned. But you don't need to be scared of Him, He made a provision for you throught the payment for our sin, the death and resurrection of Christ. All it requires is your belief by faith. It is free!!

3) We are wonderful folks, going off this way and that and making all kinds of arguments.  Upon my death, I will stand before Him and give an account, but He won't care one bit about Harry Potter.  He'll only want to know if the blood of His only son is applied to my life.  And nothing else accounts for anything!


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> THANK YOU! TBN is another way to make a buck off our Faith!   To me they are the worst type of Tv, Movies, etc....they make a mockey out of our Faith.....everytime I am changing the channel and stop by there there is a different guy with his eye's closed saying..."Somewhere in anytown USA someone is suffering, and now you'll be healed." I am sorry but that is witchcraft and sorcery! There is only one true God and Lord and savior Jesus! not Billy Bob from the Church of Fill My Wallet!



i agree. false religion is far worse than a movie or book about fantasy, even if its witchcraft. false religion is the king of damming souls to hades. although i have seen a couple of folks on the blasphemy network that seemed to teach from the Bible... (Grant Jeffrey and Myles Munroe), but knowing they associate with the thief, crouch and his wife that wears 20lbs of wigs and makeup... i think her name is jan crouch. anyway, they are hirelings and apostates. need to be taken off the air because they devour little widow's houses...


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

formula1 said:


> Well, I thought I was missing something because there were so many posts. But then again, perhaps not so much.
> 
> To the OP and my brother in Christ, in principle I would at least partially agree with your point of view.  I would err on the side of caution and strive to be 'transformed by the renewing of your mind'.  I personally never read the stuff and heard only a little, but if Christ is truly the center of your focus, why go there?
> 
> ...



I was hoping you would shed some light on this, my Brother.Once again you spoke with a clear heart, and a clear mind.We make evil, into anything we put ahead of our Faith.If people defended The Faith,as they defend myth and fable,it would be a far less evil world,than we have.Thank you for your post.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> all that really matters is what God thinks about potter. God hates sorcery and witchcraft. so should His children.




I agree BH, When you read what God says about the occult and such things He makes Himself real clear, We are to have nothing to do with it.
I have read all the books and watched the movies before I was saved, but Knowing now the price that was paid for my soul, I have to obey God's word and have nothing to do with them at all.




chiefsquirrel83 said:


> then we should hate about 75% of everything out there that is on tv and movies and watch TBN 24/7?



That is why I do not have Cable, direct TV or even an antenna anymore. I will not fill my mind with most of the drivel that passes for entertainment anymore. Some of the so called christians stations are as bad or worse in there programming. What you see on their may not be violent, filled with nudity or other such things, but a false gospel is far worse.





BeenHuntn said:


> i agree. false religion is far worse than a movie or book about fantasy, even if its witchcraft. (AGREE 100%)false religion is the king of damming souls to hades. although i have seen a couple of folks on the blasphemy network that seemed to teach from the Bible... (Grant Jeffrey and Myles Munroe), but knowing they associate with the thief, crouch and his wife that wears 20lbs of wigs and makeup... i think her name is jan crouch. anyway, they are hirelings and apostates. need to be taken off the air because they devour little widow's houses...


What is up with all that pink hair anyhow, the first time I seen them I really thought it was some kind of joke or something...


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> i agree. false religion is far worse than a movie or book about fantasy, even if its witchcraft. false religion is the king of damming souls to hades. although i have seen a couple of folks on the blasphemy network that seemed to teach from the Bible... (Grant Jeffrey and Myles Munroe), but knowing they associate with the thief, crouch and his wife that wears 20lbs of wigs and makeup... i think her name is jan crouch. anyway, they are hirelings and apostates. need to be taken off the air because they devour little widow's houses...



TBN,Daystar,The Church Channel and others are an outlet.There are more Preachers giving THE WORD of GOD,than the two you mentioned.Paul and Jan Crouch are people,fully capable, of all of the sin,that entices everyone.Yet they provide,an alternative to regular programming.What about the bed-ridden,or sickly who cannot attend Church?
You are way too quick to Judge, my friend!
THE LORD uses, whom and what, HE desires to get out The Good News of HIS SON.You would be wise,to keep some of your "discernment" to yourself."Judge not,lest ye be judged".


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> I agree BH, When you read what God says about the occult and such things He makes Himself real clear, We are to have nothing to do with it.
> I have read all the books and watched the movies before I was saved, but Knowing now the price that was paid for my soul, I have to obey God's word and have nothing to do with them at all.
> 
> 
> ...



Brother,this will be one of the very few times that I have to disagree with you.Television is no more of a sin,than this thing you sit in front of.All of the temptation,and filth that is on the TV,is far more accessable with the PC.All you do,when you drop cable,is save the money for that bill,and thats it.The PC you sit in front of,has far more temptation to offer,than any TV.


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## Jeffriesw (Apr 6, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Brother,this will be one of the very few times that I have to disagree with you.Television is no more of a sin,than this thing you sit in front of.All of the temptation,and filth that is on the TV,is far more accessable with the PC.All you do,when you drop cable,is save the money for that bill,and thats it.The PC you sit in front of,has far more temptation to offer,than any TV.



CH, We have no disagreement 
I do not believe that television is a sin in and of itself, I just do not want a lot of what is on there to even come in my house. I still have a TV, I just usually watch a decent movie if I care to see something. 
To be honest with you, I never have watched much TV anyway, There is sometimes my TV may not even come on for several weeks at a time. I mostly listen to the radio or read. I grew up without a TV from 11 to 16, so not having it around is no big deal to me. (OK, I sort of miss nascar )

As far as the PC, I now full well the pitfalls on here, I have several different filters that keeps everyone who uses the PC or laptop at my house fully accountable.
My problem with the PC is not what I view on it, but how much I am on it to start with. Whether it is here, facebook, just surfing or whatever.
 I am making a huge effort to reconize where I waste my time that could be better spent with my Wife and Family, learning God's word better or just being still and listening to Him.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> TBN,Daystar,The Church Channel and others are an outlet.There are more Preachers giving THE WORD of GOD,than the two you mentioned.Paul and Jan Crouch are people,fully capable, of all of the sin,that entices everyone.Yet they provide,an alternative to regular programming.What about the bed-ridden,or sickly who cannot attend Church?
> You are way too quick to Judge, my friend!
> THE LORD uses, whom and what, HE desires to get out The Good News of HIS SON.You would be wise,to keep some of your "discernment" to yourself."Judge not,lest ye be judged".



church channel and daystar? i've never heard of and certainly wasnt judging them. was i judging tbn? yes. not to helll. but yes i can make a decision that what they do is evil. they are hirelings. they are not from God. God does not ordain greedy people into such a position. not all people who call themselves 'pastors' are from God. they are an outlet? for what? a false gospel, is about all i can see.

church (going to) is not God. bedridden people can read their Bible. tbn or any tv is not a substitute for reading the Bible.  we are sanctified by the Word. not paul crouch and his health and wealth false gospel. 

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them

the evil fruits of tbn are to be exposed, not approved of.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

i appreciate the advice ch, but i am commanded to expose evil. not agree with it...


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> CH, We have no disagreement
> I do not believe that television is a sin in and of itself, I just do not want a lot of what is on there to even come in my house. I still have a TV, I just usually watch a decent movie if I care to see something.
> To be honest with you, I never have watched much TV anyway, There is sometimes my TV may not even come on for several weeks at a time. I mostly listen to the radio or read. I grew up without a TV from 11 to 16, so not having it around is no big deal to me. (OK, I sort of miss nascar )
> 
> ...



I'm in the process, of trying to limit myself on it also.


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> church channel and daystar? i've never heard of and certainly wasnt judging them. was i judging tbn? yes. not to helll. but yes i can make a decision that what they do is evil. they are hirelings. they are not from God. God does not ordain greedy people into such a position. not all people who call themselves 'pastors' are from God. they are an outlet? for what? a false gospel, is about all i can see.
> 
> church (going to) is not God. bedridden people can read their Bible. tbn or any tv is not a substitute for reading the Bible.  we are sanctified by the Word. not paul crouch and his health and wealth false gospel.
> 
> ...



BH,you have hit home.My dad has something wrong with his eyes.I can't even pronounce it, much less spell it.He can't read his Bible,we had bought him the Bible on cassette,and now he needs it on CD.I'm not defending,nor condemning the Crouches.There are some good Preachers on there(TBN).I don't know thier heart,and therefore will not discuss thier fruits with you.I do know this,"He among you, who has no sin,let him cast the first stone".Surely you are not saying you have no sin,BH?

Furthermore,if one soul gets saved by watching THE WORD preached by a Pastor,on TBN.Then how can you say it is not sanctioned by GOD?I will not call the names of those Pastors who were exposed years ago,and others recently.People know who they are,why go there?
People are too ready to pounce on the fallen,than look into the mirror.When the skirmish came out years ago with a fallen Pastor,his biggest critic,another Pastor was quickly brought down,in another scandal.They have both publically confessed,and asked for forgiveness.THE LORD,I serve,has forgiven them if they meant it.Who am I,not to?


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> BH,you have hit home.My dad has something wrong with his eyes.I can't even pronounce it, much less spell it.He can't read his Bible,we had bought him the Bible on cassette,and now he needs it on CD.I'm not defending,nor condemning the Crouches.There are some good Preachers on there(TBN).I don't know thier heart,and therefore will not discuss thier fruits with you.I do know this,"He among you, who has no sin,let him cast the first stone".Surely you are not saying you have no sin,BH?
> 
> Furthermore,if one soul gets saved by watching THE WORD preached by a Pastor,on TBN.Then how can you say it is not sanctioned by GOD.I will not call the names of those Pastors who were exposed years ago,and others recently.People know who they are,why go there?
> People are too ready to pounce on the fallen,than look into the mirror.



of course i have sin. people do not hear the real Gospel from tbn. they dont preach the Gospel. they preach health and wealth and giving them all your money.  nobody is gonna get saved by hearing a false gospel. according to the Bible not me. just like nobody is gonna get saved by reading the koran. a false gospel is a false gospel. the crouches are accursed by God for teaching a false gospel. Gal 1:8,9.

you can know the hearts of all men. Jer 17 says they hearts of men are deceitful above all things and desperatly wicked. and you will know them by their fruit. the crouches teach a false gospel which is bad fruit. but yes, it is up to God to deal with them as He sees fit. but i am commanded to expose them because of their false gospel. are there some good teachers on tbn? probably. but they are probably few.

ch, please study John the Baptist. he was called "great" by God and he condemned false religionists all the time. he judged them righteously. we are to do the same. not unite with error and hirelings just because they call themselves pastors or are on tbn. btw, crouch is a flaming homosexual. he settled a lawsuit for $400,000 + with his gay lover... should he be teaching anybody anything about Christ? i dont think so.


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> of course i have sin. people do not hear the real Gospel from tbn. they dont preach the Gospel. they preach health and wealth and giving them all your money.  nobody is gonna get saved by hearing a false gospel. according to the Bible not me. just like nobody is gonna get saved by reading the koran. a false gospel is a false gospel. the crouches are accursed by God for teaching a false gospel. Gal 1:8,9.
> 
> you can know the hearts of all men. Jer 17 says they hearts of men are deceitful above all things and desperatly wicked. and you will know them by their fruit. the crouches teach a false gospel which is bad fruit. but yes, it is up to God to deal with them as He sees fit. but i am commanded to expose them because of their false gospel. are there some good teachers on tbn? probably. but they are probably few.
> 
> ch, please study John the Baptist. he was called "great" by God and he condemned false religionists all the time. he judged them righteously. we are to do the same. not unite with error and hirelings just because they call themselves pastors or are on tbn. btw, crouch is a flaming homosexual. he settled a lawsuit for $400,000 + with his gay lover... should he be teaching anybody anything about Christ? i dont think so.



BH,I know of the cousin,and forrunner of our LORD.He was filled with THE HOLY SPIRIT from birth.He was born to go before our SAVIOR.Lets study THE LORD,HE was as quick to forgive,as HE Was to judge.Anyway what does TBN,have to do with Harry Potter?
Peace!
I have heard of all of the rumor filled Scandals of TBN,and I'm sure there are some I haven't heard of.I pick and choose what I want to watch on there.It will not be found on secular TV.


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## Jeff Phillips (Apr 6, 2010)

So the conclusion of many on this thread is we need to start having some book burnings? 

Everybook but the Bible is evil?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 6, 2010)

elfiii said:


> If you profess to be a Christian, the answer should be obvious. Even if you aren't a Christian, the answer should still be obvious. If the answer isn't obvious, there is nothing I can say to make it so.



There were many Christian's who had servants in the NT.  What is the difference?  

I know...I'm not condoning the idea that someone should be forced to do something against there will...but I think that the negative perception of servanthood is portrayed and promulgated by film/media as the only perception.  There are many who lived better under the leadership of their master than they did without.



chiefsquirrel83 said:


> I am not going to allow my child to be sheltered....but he will be taught right and wrong



Okay...so do you have any rules for your kids? or do you just allow them to do whatever they want?  If you have rules, you shelter them.



Sparky1 said:


> I am an expert on Nuclear Physics, though I've really never read a book on it. Just read the reviews regarding what it's about....



If you compare the level of comprehension needed to summarize Harry Potter and Nuclear Physics, you need more help than anyone on here can give



chiefsquirrel83 said:


> then we should hate about 75% of everything out there that is on tv and movies and watch TBN 24/7?



I think you're being a bit conservative with the 75%.  It is amazing what is on TV these days.  Not only the sexual content of some programming, but the language.  It has become acceptable to use language that is course.  Not only 4 letter words, but taking the Lord's name in vain.  It is amazing to me....how many times people say His name with irreverance.



Jeff Phillips said:


> So the conclusion of many on this thread is we need to start having some book burnings?
> 
> Everybook but the Bible is evil?



Boy...you need to work with Sparky.  If that is what you got out of this thread...you need to work on some reading comprehension.







I find it so interesting....that "religious nuts" can have an opinion that is contrary to the "liberal Christian" and the liberal Christian calls the nut "close-minded. 

Why does it bother you so much that someone thinks differently than you do?  Is the Holy Spirit convicting you of things that you think are wrong?  Is your conscience bothering you?  Is it pricking you to reevaluate your own moral guidelines?  

People argue that those who don't want to allow what they deem a sinful influence into their home as "not strong in the faith."  How is that?  Is a person who abstains from smoking or alcohol because they can't control it spiritual weaker than someone who can drink one beer and that is it?  No...of course not.  They both practice self control....just in different ways.


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## PWalls (Apr 6, 2010)

Personally, I have read the books and watched the movies. I have viewed them as fictional entertainment at best. I am confident of my Salvation such that those movies/books did not cause me any issues. I know what is "real". I have also read Tolkein, CS Lewis and others as well. Grew up on Science Fiction and Fantasy type books. Since I have been saved, I have never had any issue with the difference between real and fantasy.

My children have watched those movies as well. However, they are taught what is "real" as well.

Money is not evil. How you pursue it is what can be evil. The movies themselves are not evil. How you choose to relate to them is what could be evil.


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## pnome (Apr 6, 2010)

PWalls said:


> Since I have been saved, I have never had any issue with the difference between real and fantasy.



What is the difference?  If you don't mind my asking.


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## mickbear (Apr 6, 2010)

Jeff Phillips said:


> So the conclusion of many on this thread is we need to start having some book burnings?
> 
> Everybook but the Bible is evil?


you would not beleive the people out there that would do just that!


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## jmharris23 (Apr 6, 2010)

pnome said:


> What is the difference?  If you don't mind my asking.



The difference is Jesus Christ was real. You may not believe he was God, but you cannot deny his reality. 

So if you can at least agree with me that he was real, then you have to decide if he was a lunatic or the Son of God. 

There is no in-between. Based on the history of the early church and the apostles, as well as what I have seen God do through Christ first-hand in the lives of people, I choose to believe that He was who He said He was and not some madman.  

You on the other hand believe Him to be a madman who lived in a fantasy land.


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

Jeff Phillips said:


> So the conclusion of many on this thread is we need to start having some book burnings?
> 
> Everybook but the Bible is evil?



No my wife is a huge fan,I have stated it twice I think.This is a study for me.I appreciate your imput,and hey we have slavery and Christian TV in the mix as well.


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## PWalls (Apr 6, 2010)

pnome said:


> What is the difference?  If you don't mind my asking.



As has been said on here, to me, God is real. Christ is real. The power of the Word is real. Fantasy (Potter, Tolkein, etc) is not real and is just for entertainment at best.


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 6, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Just think, back in 1865 some paranoid Christian was saying the same thing about "From the Earth to the Moon" and "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne.


 
Please do not take this as mean, I just didn't know of another way to put it:

When you support my family, you can then choose what we can read/watch, until then I will decide what goes on in my family.

I don't care what people were saying about other books/movies/shows, in the past... It is of no concern to me.

I am the head of my household and as head of that household, I am charged with the decisions of the house.



Huntinfool said:


> I will simply say this.....
> 
> ...the things that some people will let their two year olds watch these days is astounding to me (and I'm not just talking about Harry Potter).


 
I will add or read, at any age...

*AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> and hopefully, when they reach the age of 18 and can make their own decisions... they will make the same decision you have about potter...


 

I pray that they do...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 6, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> Right on elfii! People have been bad since the beginning, at least that's what scripture teaches. They are no worse than they've ever been or ever will be.
> 
> Yes there have been times in history when people's awareness and belief in God were higher, and their moral values stronger, but people were still bad.
> 
> In fact we're all bad, some of will just admit it and give ourselves to the only one who can make us good.


 
So I guess things will never get worse or better... huh???  Funny thing, I remember reading somewhere that things would get a whole lot worse before Christ returns... 

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 6, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> What made slavery such a bad thing? Whites were slaves as well. Sure, there were evil slave owners...but just like you point out that times are no worse now...I think it would be difficult calling out that slavery was worse.


 
RJ,

That wouldn't be the same mentallity that the press is using to classify the Tea Party as KKK..... 

There are kooks in all "movements"... We shouldn't label the "movement" by the kooks... but by the evidence of the entire "movement".

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 6, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> i wonder if some of the "i think all books are evil and magic is satans tool" guys are so blinded by the real meaning behind Chrisitianity.....The Father who placed his son on this earth in flesh and blood to die for our sins.....I cannot believe how many people on here say they have never sinned or walk a 100% straight line!....I read mythology, fiction, etc....watch movies as well....I drink alcohol on the weekends...I listen to all types of music.....But I do know that I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and read the Bible at times....and will raise my child to do the same.....I am not going to allow my child to be sheltered....but he will be taught right and wrong


 
I have all the guidence I need from the Bible to raise my children... I need no other book/person to tell me how to raise my children.

I don't believe I have ever seen any regulars post that they, "have never sinned or walk a 100% straight line!...." I will be the first to say I fail daily to walk the straight and narrow, but those failures do not keep me from trying to walk the straight and narrow.

The worlds version of right and wrong is distorted, the only RIGHT version of right and wrong comes from the Bible.

DB BB


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

PWalls said:


> Personally, I have read the books and watched the movies. I have viewed them as fictional entertainment at best. I am confident of my Salvation such that those movies/books did not cause me any issues. I know what is "real". I have also read Tolkein, CS Lewis and others as well. Grew up on Science Fiction and Fantasy type books. Since I have been saved, I have never had any issue with the difference between real and fantasy.
> 
> My children have watched those movies as well. However, they are taught what is "real" as well.
> 
> Money is not evil. How you pursue it is what can be evil. The movies themselves are not evil. How you choose to relate to them is what could be evil.



That was the intention of the Thread,how you relate to the books/movies.Rowlings instructed her readers in interviews,to look up words,she used.She, according to David Colbert did a lot of research on the names of her creatures.Using everything from Nazi Germany to Greek mythology,with a Latin base line.Sure, most readers are not going to do home work,while they read her books.What were Rowlings intentions, other than making a whole lot of money from her books and movie rights?
Maybe shear ignorance,maybe no intentions at all,other than a tall tale.Just as it has been said,I have watched more than my fair share of fantasy,fiction,science fiction,and the like.There was just something about this series, from both sides of the fence, from the start.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 6, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> So I guess things will never get worse or better... huh???  Funny thing, I remember reading somewhere that things would get a whole lot worse before Christ returns...
> 
> DB BB



Worse than what? Sodom and Gomorrah? The people of Noah's time? The cultural Christianity of the Corinthian Church? The works-based confusion of the churches of Galatia? 

All of the things that Scripture says are gonna happen before the return of Christ regarding the behavior of men have happened. We are ready. Sure it can get worse, but this may be as bad as it gets, as He may come tonight?

I get what you're saying but my point is people as a whole have always been sinful and without Christ always will be.


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> So I guess things will never get worse or better... huh???  Funny thing, I remember reading somewhere that things would get a whole lot worse before Christ returns...
> 
> DB BB



They are!
All types of sexual perversions, are skimmed over now, with barely any shock at all.Murder used to be a big topic when it happened,now its just part of the news.Profanity is common place in conversation,almost everywhere you go.People are growing numb to sin,even True Born Again Christians.We have to realize the significance of turning a blind eye,to issues that contradict The Faith in General.We then must take note,that we can not pick and choose what sin is not as bad as another sin.All sin is sin,there are no greater,or lesser sins.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 6, 2010)

rjcruiser if you set rules for children that is not considered sheltering...that is setting boundries....


----------



## elfiii (Apr 6, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Please do not take this as mean, I just didn't know of another way to put it:
> 
> When you support my family, you can then choose what we can read/watch, until then I will decide what goes on in my family.
> 
> ...



No offense taken, but perhaps you can point out the post where I said you personally are not the master of your own household? I can't find it.

You completely missed my point about Jules Verne. In 1865 there were plenty of "Christians" who said Verne was a heretic. 104 years later, man landed on the moon. What was once heretical fantasy became fact. Is Jules Verne still a heretic? Was he prescient or did he just have a vivid imagination and got "lucky" 104 years after the fact?

It makes no difference to me what you let your children read or watch. Its' your choice.

I wonder what people say about those who predict someday man will figure out time travel? When God is ready, He will reveal to us how to do it. Won't that be interesting? Heretics will suddenly become "normal people".


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## elfiii (Apr 6, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> , the only RIGHT version of right and wrong comes from the Bible.
> 
> DB BB



According to who's understanding of it? Yours?


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 6, 2010)

elfiii i like your questions...but the ones I want to see answer seem silent....


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## ted_BSR (Apr 6, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> Or even how about the christians 'veggie tales'.. They are veggies jumping around and talking by some form of "magic". Do your kids sit at the table poking around the peas and corn wondering when its going to talk back?
> .



*The only thing scarier than Veggie Tales is Barney.*

For the record, I do not feel threatned, my God is the Master of the universe.  I am just trying to toe the line.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 6, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I remember in a christain camp (camp maranatha) the preacher would scream into the mic telling us 8+ year old children how we were going to burn into the lake of fire.
> My mom came on parents day and was so appalled she was ready to take us home then but I had to stay for the horseback riding..
> 
> Its those people who have helped me to where I am at now..



Don't pay attention to those people.  Pay attention to God.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 6, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Why?
> We are learning how judgmental some of us are,.


 
This fact has been evident for years on here. It wasn't just revealed on this thread.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 6, 2010)

What's next?  Star Wars?


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 6, 2010)

no not Star Wars....just kidding!....someone is going to start on that now....we just sent a shuttle in Space a couple of days ago....it might be witchcraft also!


----------



## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

PWalls said:


> Personally, I have read the books and watched the movies. I have viewed them as fictional entertainment at best. I am confident of my Salvation such that those movies/books did not cause me any issues. I know what is "real". I have also read Tolkein, CS Lewis and others as well. Grew up on Science Fiction and Fantasy type books. Since I have been saved, I have never had any issue with the difference between real and fantasy.
> 
> My children have watched those movies as well. However, they are taught what is "real" as well.
> 
> Money is not evil. How you pursue it is what can be evil. The movies themselves are not evil. How you choose to relate to them is what could be evil.



its not about being confident in your salvation. nobody here thinks you're (we, I) gonna go to hades for watching a movie, whether good or bad. its about obedience. God hates witchcraft and sorcery... as His children so should we.

would Paul have watched potter? no. what about JTB? no.. they would have protested potter because God protests potter. 

God has already decided what is evil and what is not. in the same way He decided what we would look like. how old we will live to be. when Jesus will return. the size of the earth. how many stars there are... God has already made all those decisions... we are not to question if potter is good or bad... as His children we are to follow Him...  Jesus said, "follow Me.."


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## elfiii (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> would Paul have watched potter? no. what about JTB? no.. they would have protested potter because God protests potter.



Please cite for us the scriptural quote where God protests Harry Potter specifically. Not witches, warlocks and other demons, just Harry Potter.


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## christianhunter (Apr 6, 2010)

ted_BSR said:


> *The only thing scarier than Veggie Tales is Barney.*
> 
> For the record, I do not feel threatned, my God is the Master of the universe.  I am just trying to toe the line.



There is no way I could take Barney and his singing,and laughing.They used to have Barney Bashing meetings with clubs.He could kill an adult with his voice.


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## earl (Apr 6, 2010)

A couple of questions for the stricter parents . 
How dom youn encourage your nchild tom use their imaginations ? I can not imagine how a  child would turn out if they weren't allowed to use their imagination.
How do you explain to them that HP is evil and of the devil and false, while telling them that Christ arose from the dead and that is god and true ? Or Jonah lived in the belly of a great fish ?
If your kids are around other children they will hear about HP. It certainly has to be confusing to a child.
To those of you who have said they can make their own decisions when they turn 18. Don't you think it is a diservice to the child and a copout for you to think that at age 18 a switch will be thrown and the child will allf a sudden be prepared for what the world will throw his or her way ?  A close friend put his son in Christian schools and college. The boy was kept out of worldly things until around age 24. His job as a youth pastor fell through and he took a job in a foundry. To say the world came crashing in would have been an understatement. To this day he blames his dad for not preparing him for real life. Needless to say he vows not to make the same mistake.
Are ya'll preparing your kids for a monastary or nunnery ?

Elfii , I think Harry Potter is in Revalation under monsters.  J/K


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Please cite for us the scriptural quote where God protests Harry Potter specifically. Not witches, warlocks and other demons, just Harry Potter.



gee, lets take our pic...

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (potter)

2 Chronicles 33:6
And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Micah 5:12
And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> gee, lets take our pic...
> 
> 1 Samuel 15:23
> For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (potter)
> ...


 

Lots of liberties taken there. Me thinks Elfiii will have a very succinct retort for you on that vague attempt to answer his query.


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 6, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Lots of liberties taken there. Me thinks Elfiii will have a very succinct retort for you on that vague attempt to answer his query.



i was just trying to be brief... if i post too much Scripture under one post, people tend to get a little offended...    

God gave us common sense. we have to connect the dots. in the Bible God hates witchcraft and throws people who dabble in witchcraft into the lake of fire which has a temperature of about 1000 degrees... although i personally find the fact that you cannot bass fish there for worse than the extreme southern temperature...

God also says that His children will take on His mind and hate what He hates and will love what He loves... its called becoming "godly"...

so if God hates witchcraft and sorcery, which is what potter movies are all about... than why on earth would a person calling themself God's child want to watch movies that God is clear about, that He hates... the child of God should be wanting to be obedient...

watching a potter movie will not keep anyone out of heaven... but it is a sign of disobedience to our Father, the same as if we got drunk, fornicated, told a lie,  ate 2 large pizzas or deleted the second commandment and split the 10th commandment to make sure they still equal 10...


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 6, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> So if God hates witchcraft and sorcery, which is what potter movies are all about...


 
There inlies the flaw in your thought process.


----------



## post450 (Apr 7, 2010)

Earl, with me apparently falling under the narrow minded, insecure fanatic category that some of my more liberal brothers and sisters here have suggested, I might be a good candidate to answer your questions.



earl said:


> A couple of questions for the stricter parents .
> How dom youn encourage your nchild tom use their imaginations ? I can not imagine how a  child would turn out if they weren't allowed to use their imagination.



We have never discouraged our children's imaginations. They have watched lots of secular movies and read lots of books. My oldest son loves Star Wars and Star Trek. They play Xbox too. I think they are pretty bright, but I am biased too.



earl said:


> How do you explain to them that HP is evil and of the devil and false, while telling them that Christ arose from the dead and that is god and true ? Or Jonah lived in the belly of a great fish ?



Being evil and being false are two entirely different things. Witchcraft in theory or actuality is wrong because it typically involves some type of dominion over another individual or an attempt to do so. Even the most staunch atheist should agree that the principle of control over another against their will is wrong. Harry Potter is a warlock, wizard, sorcerer and is the hero of the series. No one can deny that this scenario glorifies Harry Potter and ultimately witchcraft. Harry Potter is make believe but witch craft is not. Where do you separate the two? Kids usually imitate their role models. When I was 10, I pretended to be Bo Duke, my how times have changed.

Still not sure why Jonah is such a sticking point with some of you guys. As to Jesus, if I didn't believe that He is the only begotten Son of God with every fiber of my being, I wouldn't tell them about Him. I thank God for parents who taught me right from wrong and told me about Jesus.



earl said:


> If your kids are around other children they will hear about HP. It certainly has to be confusing to a child.



Yep and they hear a lot worse things. Pretty amazing some of the words my kids have learned from other kids _at church._ At least they are comfortable enough with us as parents to ask about words they have never heard before.




earl said:


> To those of you who have said they can make their own decisions when they turn 18. Don't you think it is a diservice to the child and a copout for you to think that at age 18 a switch will be thrown and the child will allf a sudden be prepared for what the world will throw his or her way ?  A close friend put his son in Christian schools and college. The boy was kept out of worldly things until around age 24. His job as a youth pastor fell through and he took a job in a foundry. To say the world came crashing in would have been an understatement. To this day he blames his dad for not preparing him for real life. Needless to say he vows not to make the same mistake.
> Are ya'll preparing your kids for a monastary or nunnery ?



First of all manual labor in a foundry for college educated person is not an ideal situation no matter how you were raised. I once worked in a carpet mill and it stayed around 100 degrees in there most of the summer. Not a pleasant environment. I hope for my children to get an adequate education and succeed, but I would not dare push them into a ministry. If that were something they wanted fine, but most ministry jobs are limited, low paying, and have a very high turn over rate. Right now the youngest thinks he wants to be archeologist. Probably not realistic, but I don't want to discourage him, he's 10. When he is grown he will have plenty of time to be realistic. How do you think a parent should prepare one for real life? We warn them about dangers, teach them personal responsibility, and are completely honest with them. Does the kid with an abusive or alcoholic father or no father at all get a life lesson sooner, absolutely, but that that doesn't do him much good in the long run does it? Certainly doesn't equate to a happy, well balanced child.

When people would find out that we homeschool our children, they used to tell me "you can't shelter them their whole life". My reply was always "no, but I can protect them until they are old enough to make a good decision". The functional family is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Oh yeah, those kids who my boys learned questionable words from at church, they are products of our fine public school system. Doesn't really matter how good of a parenting job you do, if you put your kids with a group of heathens five days a week, they will pick up bad habits if only to fit in and survive. Been there and did that myself.



earl said:


> Elfii , I think Harry Potter is in Revalation under monsters.  J/K



I don't think Harry Potter is named in Revelation, but I believe some liberal Christians may be. Chapter 3 verses 14-19.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 7, 2010)

oh yeah I remember now....I remember in Sunday School when we were taught to specifically not indulge in anything written about Harry Potter! c'mon guys! really? There are people who say they do not read or have cable or satellite....BUT YOU HAVE THE INTERNET!!!! Entertainment with no barriers! Everything available at a click of a button....just as bad if not worse than cable tv or satellite


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> Worse than what? Sodom and Gomorrah? The people of Noah's time? The cultural Christianity of the Corinthian Church? The works-based confusion of the churches of Galatia?
> 
> All of the things that Scripture says are gonna happen before the return of Christ regarding the behavior of men have happened. We are ready. Sure it can get worse, but this may be as bad as it gets, as He may come tonight?
> 
> I get what you're saying but my point is people as a whole have always been sinful and without Christ always will be.


 
I agree, people have always been sinful... even with Christ we sin everyday. But I believe it will get much worse than it already is...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> they are!
> All types of sexual perversions, are skimmed over now, with barely any shock at all.murder used to be a big topic when it happened,now its just part of the news.profanity is common place in conversation,almost everywhere you go.people are growing numb to sin,even true born again christians.we have to realize the significance of turning a blind eye,to issues that contradict the faith in general.we then must take note,that we can not pick and choose what sin is not as bad as another sin.all sin is sin,there are no greater,or lesser sins.


 

*amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> No offense taken, but perhaps you can point out the post where I said you personally are not the master of your own household? I can't find it.
> 
> You completely missed my point about Jules Verne. In 1865 there were plenty of "Christians" who said Verne was a heretic. 104 years later, man landed on the moon. What was once heretical fantasy became fact. Is Jules Verne still a heretic? Was he prescient or did he just have a vivid imagination and got "lucky" 104 years after the fact?
> 
> ...


 
I apologize, I guess I read more into your post, than you meant.

I say Verne just got lucky...

DB BB


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> According to who's understanding of it? Yours?


 
As long as I can back it up with the Bible (in context) than yes mine, that God has given me.

DB BB


----------



## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Please cite for us the scriptural quote where God protests Harry Potter specifically. Not witches, warlocks and other demons, just Harry Potter.


 
Elfii,

Please show me where in Harry Potter that it doesn't endose the occult/witches/warlocks, etc?

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 7, 2010)

earl said:


> A couple of questions for the stricter parents .
> How dom youn encourage your nchild tom use their imaginations ? I can not imagine how a child would turn out if they weren't allowed to use their imagination.
> How do you explain to them that HP is evil and of the devil and false, while telling them that Christ arose from the dead and that is god and true ? Or Jonah lived in the belly of a great fish ?
> If your kids are around other children they will hear about HP. It certainly has to be confusing to a child.
> ...


 
All kids have imagination... they do not have to be shown how to use it... unless they have been taught that they can't imagine... that is very rare.

Yes my kids have heard of harry potter and twilight, I try my best to not let my kids peers influence them, but I also try to surround them with the influence that I think is best for them.

I teach them that all other books are not of God, and that they should use the Bible as a basis for figuring out how they should read other books... The Bible is the only book that is inspired by God, to me that makes it a very special book... I know we probably disagree here.

No, I don't think I am doing my child a diservice by not exposing them to certain things... Should I expose my children to drugs, just so they know that drugs are bad? Should I expose them to premarital sex because the world says it is ok? Look I am not saying that at 18 my children will have all the answers to all their problems but hopefully I would have taught them to handle what comes their way. And no 18 is not a magic number, that is why I said as long as they live in my house.

I am preparing my children not only how to deal with this world, but I am much harder on my children than the world... We live in a society that is riduled with corruption, self indulgence and hateful behavior, among other things... I do not let my kids get away with anything... they are shown that every decision you make has a consequence... now can you live with the consequence, if not than make a better decision.

If my boy was chosen by God to be a Preacher/Pastor, nothing would make me prouder... Like wise if my girls were chosen to be a Pastor/Preacher's wife, nothing would make me prouder... But whatever God choose's for them, I pray that they will always Glorify God.

DB BB

DB BB


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## PWalls (Apr 7, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Elfii,
> 
> Please show me where in Harry Potter that it doesn't endose the occult/witches/warlocks, etc?
> 
> DB BB




First off DBBB, still love the big bold words man. Bring em on.

Second, Harry Potter is "entertainment". It (books, movies) doesn't actually endorse anything. It protrays that stuff, but it doesn't say, go out and do this or cut a tree limb off to make a wand and say some latin words.

I see all the points being made here and understand the view-points. I just don't think that because a fictional movie made strictly for entertainment promoting a "sin" is exactly endorsement of that sin. It goes back to free-will. If God was so scared of us watching Harry Potter (to use the current example) because it might make us start practicing witch-craft, then He would have made us robots. He gives us free-will though to use for ourselves to not only decide whether or not to watch stuff like that, but to also apply that free-will with respect to the influence that stuff has in our lives.


----------



## earl (Apr 7, 2010)

I must have watched and read HPdifferently than some. I thought thgey portrayed good over evil, and taking care of your friends. Almost like Mighty Mouse , The Lone Ranger , Roy and Dale.
What about sleeping Beauty ? Nasty witch there. Bambi ? Animals speakingin human voices. Oh ,I forgot aboutt Ballam's donkey.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

If i'm not mistaken, when the harry potter books were first released, there was hardly any press coverage whatsoever. That is until the fear mongering religious right got wind of some alleged book about witchcraft and sorcery that they had never read, and they began kickin up a stink about it in the public eye.

I wonder how (using the hardline approach shown here so much) just what God thinks about all of those fine Christians errantly promoting such a book by protesting it in the public eye and bringing so much attention to it, that it might not otherwise have received??

Heck, if it weren't for some of these fine Christians of the same mindset back in the day, I might never have discovered Led Zepplin and a few other great bands...


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> rjcruiser if you set rules for children that is not considered sheltering...that is setting boundries....





So why do you call the rules of some more stringent on here sheltering?  Why they are just setting the boundries.

We all shelter our children...just some build the shed a little bigger than others.



earl said:


> A couple of questions for the stricter parents .
> How dom youn encourage your nchild tom use their imaginations ? I can not imagine how a  child would turn out if they weren't allowed to use their imagination.
> How do you explain to them that HP is evil and of the devil and false, while telling them that Christ arose from the dead and that is god and true ? Or Jonah lived in the belly of a great fish ?
> If your kids are around other children they will hear about HP. It certainly has to be confusing to a child.
> ...



Earl....you are right.  Too many rules is not a good thing.  As a child grows up, their own responsibility has to grow as well.

I think many conservative Christians focus more on the output of their child rather than on the heart.  As such, the child is left with not knowing the reason why, but rather just what they have to do or not do.  So...when they do step out from under the rule of the gestapo, they've not learned the why and therefore, don't follow any rules or have any responsibility.

Yes...I've had friends that have done something similar to your friend.  Most were homeschooled and graduate from BJU


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## earl (Apr 7, 2010)

BJU / HOGWARTS/HOMESCOOL 
Concentration on one thing only does not give one a well rounded education.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 7, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> gee, lets take our pic...
> 
> 1 Samuel 15:23
> For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (potter)
> ...



That's odd. I looked at those passages and didn't see anything mentioning Harry Potter specifically, the names of the books he is in, or any of the characters in the books.

Perhaps there actually is a difference between real agents of Satan and mythical characters in a book of fiction written for purposes of entertainment based on a theme of "Good v Evil" with Good triumphing in the end? How can such an allegorical "story" be bad?



Double Barrel BB said:


> As long as I can back it up with the Bible (in context) than yes mine, that God has given me.
> 
> DB BB



Did you ever stop to think your personal interpretation of the Bible and the understanding you think God gave you are wrong, especially since it differs from others' opinions? I question my understanding of Scripture all the time, especially since the Bible is full of contradictions. I question my faith also.

One thing I am certain of is the Harry Potter books present no more of a temptation than anything else in this life. In fact, they are little more than benign entertainment. The Bible says we are allowed a measure of benign entertainment.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> The Bible says we are allowed a measure of benign entertainment.


 
Indeed it does, and most of mine is derived from reading the Spiritual Debate forum...


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## jmharris23 (Apr 7, 2010)

As a fact I believe that Satan uses religion (notice I did not say a relationship with Christ)to do way more evil than he ever will Harry Potter or all the other things we are scared of


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## secondseason (Apr 7, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> As a fact I believe that Satan uses religion (notice I did not say a relationship with Christ)to do way more evil than he ever will Harry Potter or all the other things we are scared of



Amen!!!


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## christianhunter (Apr 7, 2010)

jmharris23 said:


> As a fact I believe that Satan uses religion (notice I did not say a relationship with Christ)to do way more evil than he ever will Harry Potter or all the other things we are scared of



Brother,that is true!
We seperate ourselves by denomination,by labels such as-liberal,conservative,independent,mainstream,to name a few.The bottom line is our individual relationship to THE LORD.If you do not have an individual relationship with THE LORD JESUS,it doesn't matter who you hang around with.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> especially since the Bible is full of contradictions.



That answers a lot of questions about your "faith."



jmharris23 said:


> As a fact I believe that Satan uses religion (notice I did not say a relationship with Christ)to do way more evil than he ever will Harry Potter or all the other things we are scared of



True....but just as often as Satan uses religion to do evil, people use that as an excuse to not to be involved in the local church or to live a life that the "deem appropriate."


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## elfiii (Apr 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> That answers a lot of questions about your "faith."



And what exactly do you know about my faith?


----------



## PWalls (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> And what exactly do you know about my faith?



I pray continually that mine is/was as large as a mustard seed.


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## christianhunter (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> especially since the Bible is full of contradictions.



I firmly disagree there Brother,there are no contradictions in The Bible.We have done that one already.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> And what exactly do you know about my faith?



Well...I do know from your comment you don't believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture.  

That comment I made above was not to be taken as a put down.  It wasn't meant to come across as "I'm better than you are."  It was to mean that you can tell a lot about what a person believes based on their doctrinal stance on a core pillar such as the inerrancy of Scripture.  There are several core doctrines that imo and based on the Bible, are essential.  Inerrancy of Scripture is one of them.  Sufficiency of Christ is another.

I sincerely apologize if my post came across as a slap in the face.  It was not meant to be.  I understand that there are many "faiths" represented on this board and that by merely posting comments and questions in an internet forum, I'm not going to sway a person to one side or another.


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## elfiii (Apr 7, 2010)

PWalls said:


> I pray continually that mine is/was as large as a mustard seed.



As do I. That which I have is unshakeable, though I fear it is woefully inadequate.




christianhunter said:


> I firmly disagree there Brother,there are no contradictions in The Bible.



In your personal, humble, opinion. 



			
				christianhunter said:
			
		

> We have done that one already.



Who is "We"? Other mortals? Their judgement and wisdom are often fallible. "We" will not get me into Heaven.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

It just keeps getting better and better...


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## secondseason (Apr 7, 2010)

How do y'all feel about "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" and "The Chronicles of Narnia"?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> It just keeps getting better and better...



Why is that?  You don't believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture or the Sufficiency of Christ?



secondseason said:


> How do y'all feel about "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" and "The Chronicles of Narnia"?



You should start a new thread on it.  Lots have referenced CS Lewis, but I've yet to see a response on it.  Starting a new thread would surely garner some responses.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Why is that? You don't believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture or the Sufficiency of Christ?


 
You are saying that through multiple itterations by humans there aren't any contradictions or errors whatsoever in the Bible. Interesting.



			
				rjcruiser said:
			
		

> You should start a new thread on it. Lots have referenced CS Lewis, but I've yet to see a response on it. Starting a new thread would surely garner some responses.


 
I believe the status quo expressed here is suffecient without rehashing a new thread.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> You are saying that through multiple itterations by humans there aren't any contradictions or errors whatsoever in the Bible. Interesting.



You should actually do a study on how similar modern day translations are to the oldest texts that have been found.  You might be amazed.

Or...continue to justify the beliefs you have based on a flawed argument.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> You should actually do a study on how similar modern day translations are to the oldest texts that have been found. You might be amazed.
> 
> Or...continue to justify the beliefs you have based on a flawed argument.


 
My beliefs are based on a personal relationship with my Lord and Savior. Not the errant scribbles of humans..


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## secondseason (Apr 7, 2010)

2nd translation - 200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.

19th translation - 1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.


I believe in the Bible!  I repent daily for my many transgressions.  I believe that my God is the loving God.  

I do not believe that I will be condemned for reading works of fiction.

I do not believe that I will be condemned for any misinterpretations of the Bible that I or anyone else has related to me.

I believe. I believe. I believe.

Oh....and CS Lewis was a theist, turned atheist turned theist.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> My beliefs are based on a personal relationship with my Lord and Savior. Not the errant scribbles of humans..



So...who made up your "Lord and Savior?"


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> So...who made up your "Lord and Savior?"


 
Not a bunch of dudes that were smart enough to be scribes of the day.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

secondseason said:


> 2nd translation - 200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
> 
> 19th translation - 1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.



Why do you look to the Septuagint for your translation of the OT?  Why not look back at the language it was originally written in?

And why do you bring up the KJV 1611 version?  Are you presupposing that I'm a KJV only person?  To dispell any misconceptions...my preferred translation is the NASB.

Oh...and to not upset our Catholic friends, proper terminology is "deuterocanonical books"



			
				secondseason said:
			
		

> I believe in the Bible!  I repent daily for my many transgressions.  I believe that my God is the loving God.


What in the Bible do you believe?  



			
				secondseason said:
			
		

> I do not believe that I will be condemned for reading works of fiction.


Nor do I.



			
				secondseason said:
			
		

> I do not believe that I will be condemned for any misinterpretations of the Bible that I or anyone else has related to me.


Depends on what those misinterpretations lead you to believe.




			
				secondseason said:
			
		

> I believe. I believe. I believe.



Believing doesn't always get you to Heaven....for even the demon's believe.

James 2:19
19  You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.




			
				secondseason said:
			
		

> Oh....and CS Lewis was a theist, turned atheist turned theist.



He was also a man, a sinner, a mortal.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

Sparky1 said:


> Not a bunch of dudes that were smart enough to be scribes of the day.



So you can't answer the question?


----------



## secondseason (Apr 7, 2010)

anyone's condemnation here will not put me in hades.

NO WONDER.....people don't like to talk to you people.

You would have me believe that my beliefs are not worthy of your consideration.

Rock on is all I've got to say.

There are some mean spirited people in this forum and if that is God like....it's a different God than the one I know.


----------



## elfiii (Apr 7, 2010)

rjcruiser said:


> Well...I do know from your comment you don't believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture.



You would be incorrect. I do not doubt the Bible. I doubt your and my understanding of it. It is God's Perfect Word and only He understands it. We attempt to understand it and we fail miserably. All of us. I am perfectly willing to admit I do not understand it. Doing so does not harm me in the least. Neither does my questioning and doubting of others' understanding.

Accepting one's faith "as is" is a recipe for disaster. As the esteemed Mr. Walls pointed out, he hoped his faith was as large as a mustard seed, the inference being a mustard seed when compared to God's Creation called the Universe is infintesimally small. Perhaps that is all God is looking for from us. Perhaps it isn't.

I question my faith and my understanding of the Bible constantly. I do not subscribe to the notion of "God said it, I believe it and that settles it". God's Will is exceedingly more complex than that. I do not claim to know even as much as a mustard seed of it if that much, and that which I do know, I stray from constantly.

I personally am hung on the horns of a legal dilemma right now. It is a small thing, but my action or inaction may well cause undue harm on others who do deserve some harm for the harm they have done me, as well as harm for some who don't and have done me no harm. One seeks to address the harm done to me. He may well suffer personal harm as a result of executing his legal duty on the state's and my behalf, which he is willing to do without question.

While I have taken action to set things in motion which can't be stopped, there is an opportunity to have a positive impact and make sure justice is done. Thankfully, I was in a receptive mood and heard God ask me "Are you sure?" He asked that question through the man who seeks to address the harm done to me and the state. He has not answered my question yet-"What should I do?" 

I think He intends for me to learn some small thing if I will, but the time for learning that small thing grows short. Events precipitate and will not long wait. They will either overtake me and the time to make a difference will be lost, or He will reveal the answer to me in the nick of time after I have struggled with the problem awhile and justice will be done and I will have done the right thing for all concerned. Perhaps He means for me to take no further action, let events occur as they may and then reveal to me the correct answer. I don't know.

While I have consulted my Bible, prayed, and thought about the right course of action, the answer has not come. I shall continue to question my faith, the Bible and my understanding of it until God grants me the grace to figure  out this one small thing.

As I said, the matter is a small thing, but small things make big impacts in people's lives. Too often we get hung up arguing ridiculous things like the "Inerrancy of Scripture" while missing the more important "small things" which God commends to our consideration. It is those "small things" that pave the road to Salvation, in my humble opinion.

One thing is certain. The Harry Potter books are of no consequence in this or any other matter of the soul.



			
				rjcruiser said:
			
		

> That comment I made above was not to be taken as a put down.  It wasn't meant to come across as "I'm better than you are."  It was to mean that you can tell a lot about what a person believes based on their doctrinal stance on a core pillar such as the inerrancy of Scripture.  There are several core doctrines that imo and based on the Bible, are essential.  Inerrancy of Scripture is one of them.  Sufficiency of Christ is another.
> 
> I sincerely apologize if my post came across as a slap in the face.  It was not meant to be.  I understand that there are many "faiths" represented on this board and that by merely posting comments and questions in an internet forum, I'm not going to sway a person to one side or another.



Absolutely no offense taken, but again your reading of my faith is in error. See my reply above. I am a wretched mortal sinner and a fallible human. I know I do not have a full understanding of God's word and never will until that day He calls me home and reveals all to me. Of all the sins I have committed, either knowingly and willfully or innocently and unthinking, professing to know God's will is not one I ever commit. Even I have limits. 

See Phil. 4:7, in whichever Bible you prefer.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Apr 7, 2010)

secondseason said:


> anyone's condemnation here will not put me in hades.
> 
> NO WONDER.....people don't like to talk to you people.
> 
> ...


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

secondseason said:


> anyone's condemnation here will not put me in hades.
> 
> NO WONDER.....people don't like to talk to you people.
> 
> ...




Who here has condemned?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 7, 2010)

elfii...I'll respond tomorrow...when I'm back at work and have more time 

Gotta leave the fantasy forum world and head home....


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 7, 2010)

elfiii said:


> That's odd. I looked at those passages and didn't see anything mentioning Harry Potter specifically, the names of the books he is in, or any of the characters in the books.
> 
> Perhaps there actually is a difference between real agents of Satan and mythical characters in a book of fiction written for purposes of entertainment based on a theme of "Good v Evil" with Good triumphing in the end? How can such an allegorical "story" be bad?
> 
> ...



surfing porn on the internet isnt mentioned in the Bible either. so should we do that? what about getting drunk off of whiskey? whiskey isnt mentioned, so lets do it! how bout the hoochy coochy bar? nothing wrong with a lap dance, right?   your reasoning is fleshy and not Biblical. 

the 'good vs evil' is exactly whats wrong with potter. who are the 'good' characters? witches, warlocks and sorcerers. potter teaches kids that there is such a thing as "good witches" and there is not. not for the Christian. for the world? sure... not for Christians.

i dont have a personal interpretation of the Bible, so no its not wrong. the Bible is clear. God hates sorcery and says all who practice it will perish. thats all a Bible follower needs. God decides what everything is. He has already decided that all witchcraft is evil. i dont need to interpret that or look for ways to make it right. 'others opinions' mean nothing to me. just the Word of God and what God's opinion is no matter what the topic.

'benign entertainment' allowed in the Bible...? sorcery is not benign, according to God. bass fishing is benign entertainment, not witchcraft...

btw, there is not a single contradiction in the KJ Bible. is our God not great enough to write and preserve His Holy Book that doesnt contradict or confuse...? if He can predict the date and hour of our deaths... He can preserve a Book that doesnt contradict.


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## christianhunter (Apr 7, 2010)

secondseason said:


> anyone's condemnation here will not put me in hades.
> 
> NO WONDER.....people don't like to talk to you people.
> 
> ...



Whoa,wait a minute,please.I have stated a couple of times at least,that this is only for a study.I for one, am not condemning anyone.I have also said several times that my wife is a fan of HP and Twilight.Some of the others may sound condemning,sometimes we have to take it with a grain of salt.Its hard to relay intent and emotion with the typed word,I've been burned several times.Simply because I put a comma in the wrong place,or a question mark instead of a period.I have personally enjoyed your visit and imput,and hope you will continue.Anyhow you are a Mod,no one,who wants to stay around,is going to step on your toes too hard.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 7, 2010)

am I the only one that is surprised and confused that there are some folk that think they can interpret the Bible the way it was written over 1000 years ago?....I don't believe anybody can....but if we challenge that with our faith or view we are attacked....I never attack how anyone interprets the Bible....but when you attack my Faith...whole different story....my beliefs in Christianity....here ya go...We were put on this earth for a reason....God realized that some folks were very opinionated, confused, and prejudice...so what did he do???....He gave us our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Why? Because he knew this man would teach and preach to the world that we are not all perfect. As long as we forgive other's for what they do to us and ask for forgiveness for our wrong doing(sins) we will be saved. He knew we were all sinners and have been and always will be sinners. Jesus died for our sins. Accept Jesus in our hearts and we will always know that if we do wrong, we can hit our knees and ask for forgiveness. We are not all perfect, but we do know between right and wrong...and when wrong hits....we know who to turn to! I live life to the fullest....I love my wife, family, friends, and foes....never turn your head...your conscience is what will nip you in the butt....if it bothers you...look up and ask..."is that wrong"....I do some things that aren't perfect neither does anyone else. I see the worst of the worst in my profession, but I pray for them and hope the find they path to forgiveness...why hate everyone....when I watch something, I know it is make believe...that is what my mother and father were for...to tell me it was make believe, fiction, etc...why are so many people afraid of pulling a rabbit out of a hat, sawing a woman in half, a cartoon with ghouls and goblins, and a fantasy movie with with witches, vampires, werewolves, etc????


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 7, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> am I the only one that is surprised and confused that there are some folk that think they can interpret the Bible the way it was written over 1000 years ago?....I don't believe anybody can....but if we challenge that with our faith or view we are attacked....I never attack how anyone interprets the Bible....
> 
> squirrel. the Bible is not open for private interpretation. period. we arent capable. God knew that. so what did He do?  He solved the problem by writing the Bible in a way that the Scriptures interpret Scriptures. no dress wearing men are need to interpret this Book... it does it on its own.  and no, the pharisees are not allowed to interpret the Bible either.
> 
> why are so many people afraid of pulling a rabbit out of a hat, sawing a woman in half, a cartoon with ghouls and goblins, and a fantasy movie with with witches, vampires, werewolves, etc????



squirrel. the Bible clearly teaches that God hates craft and sorcery? yes. we are commanded to be godly meaning take on the mind of Christ. when we taken on the mind of Christ we are to think what God thinks... God said put no evil before your eyes.  i can think of many others beside


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## elfiii (Apr 7, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> your reasoning is fleshy and not Biblical.



Actually its' not, but I didn't expect you to see that.



			
				BeenHuntn said:
			
		

> i dont have a personal interpretation of the Bible, so no its not wrong. the Bible is clear. God hates sorcery and says all who practice it will perish. thats all a Bible follower needs. God decides what everything is. He has already decided that all witchcraft is evil. i dont need to interpret that or look for ways to make it right. 'others opinions' mean nothing to me. just the Word of God and what God's opinion is no matter what the topic.



Personally, I am certain your understanding of the Bible is not nearly as clear as you think it is.



			
				BeenHuntn said:
			
		

> 'benign entertainment' allowed in the Bible...? sorcery is not benign, according to God. bass fishing is benign entertainment, not witchcraft...



Ah yes, I see it clearly now. A story of fantasy is clearly an advocation of "Sorcery".



			
				BeenHuntn said:
			
		

> btw, there is not a single contradiction in the KJ Bible. is our God not great enough to write and preserve His Holy Book that doesnt contradict or confuse...? if He can predict the date and hour of our deaths... He can preserve a Book that doesnt contradict.



I'm certain you think you know the Bible, inside and out.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Apr 8, 2010)

BeenHuntn said:


> squirrel. the Bible clearly teaches that God hates craft and sorcery? yes. we are commanded to be godly meaning take on the mind of Christ. when we taken on the mind of Christ we are to think what God thinks... God said put no evil before your eyes.  i can think of many others beside



Here's my question to you then. Since majority of us live on here are Christians and live in the real world, not this sheltered "I'm the only right Christian, all others are condemned," Do you think that all of us that watch, read, and listen to fiction entertainment about ghost, ghouls, goblins, witches, and werewolves are going to "be with Satan"?


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

PWalls said:


> First off DBBB, still love the big bold words man. Bring em on.
> 
> Second, Harry Potter is "entertainment". It (books, movies) doesn't actually endorse anything. It protrays that stuff, but it doesn't say, go out and do this or cut a tree limb off to make a wand and say some latin words.
> 
> I see all the points being made here and understand the view-points. I just don't think that because a fictional movie made strictly for entertainment promoting a "sin" is exactly endorsement of that sin. It goes back to free-will. If God was so scared of us watching Harry Potter (to use the current example) because it might make us start practicing witch-craft, then He would have made us robots. He gives us free-will though to use for ourselves to not only decide whether or not to watch stuff like that, but to also apply that free-will with respect to the influence that stuff has in our lives.


 

This raises a whole other debate:  Should Christians watch/read stuff that promote sin?

I personally thank we shouldn't...

I won't get into the free-will debate again... you know where I stand on that one...

DB BB


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## PWalls (Apr 8, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I won't get into the free-will debate again... you know where I stand on that one...



You know I do Brother. 

As far as watching "sinful" things, I don't see any way around that short of sitting at home with the windows closed and the Bible in your hand 24/7. God has placed us in our position. Remember we are to bloom where we are planted. Well, we are planted in a sinful world. That doesn't mean we ignore the sins. We deal with it. Now, I agree with you to a point. I don't think we should watch certain things. I guess I am thinking it is up to the individual and their Christian walk. I don't have an issue with Harry Potter and the "entertainment" value of the movie because I do not have a problem with the sin of sorcery and such. I will not however watch a porn or nudity movie because in the past I have struggled (honestly still do) with "lust". Does that make sense?


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Did you ever stop to think your personal interpretation of the Bible and the understanding you think God gave you are wrong, especially since it differs from others' opinions? I question my understanding of Scripture all the time, especially since the Bible is full of contradictions. I question my faith also.


 
That is why I said (In Context), I see no contridictions in the Bible. You can take a lot of verses out of context and bend them to mean whatever you want them to mean, but that doesn't make them right. I don't lean on the understanding of others, unless I know they are drawing from the Bible also, and know them personally enough to know they are walking with the Lord. Every believer is at a different place in their walk with Christ... It is not my job to question yours or anyone else's relationship with God. I have hard enough time keeping things cleaned up around me. 

Talking about me here... If I question my faith, there is something wrong withmy walk with Christ, and I need to get down on my knees and pray, and pray, and pray... Prayer and reading God's word has always strengthened my faith.



elfiii said:


> One thing I am certain of is the Harry Potter books present no more of a temptation than anything else in this life. In fact, they are little more than benign entertainment. The Bible says we are allowed a measure of benign entertainment.


 
I would be interested in knowing where in the Bible it says we are allowed a measure of benign entertainment... Please so me.

I don't think anything that promotes sin is benign...

DB BB


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 8, 2010)

elfiii said:


> Actually its' not, but I didn't expect you to see that.
> 
> _when God has said to abstain from evil and He calls sorcery evil and the child of God does not abstain from the evil.. that is the flesh overruling the Holy Spirit_
> 
> ...


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

PWalls said:


> You know I do Brother.
> 
> As far as watching "sinful" things, I don't see any way around that short of sitting at home with the windows closed and the Bible in your hand 24/7. God has placed us in our position. Remember we are to bloom where we are planted. Well, we are planted in a sinful world. That doesn't mean we ignore the sins. We deal with it. Now, I agree with you to a point. I don't think we should watch certain things. I guess I am thinking it is up to the individual and their Christian walk. I don't have an issue with Harry Potter and the "entertainment" value of the movie because I do not have a problem with the sin of sorcery and such. I will not however watch a porn or nudity movie because in the past I have struggled (honestly still do) with "lust". Does that make sense?


 

Perfect sense!  I understand your point... I hope you understand mine. In fact you actually touched on it... when we have a weekness to a certain sin, I think we should stay as far away from that sin as possible... Harry Potter to me is no different than reading the horoscope or going to a palm reader, etc... I would just rather not tempt myself to perhaps letting some of that stuff influence my walk with Christ.

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> Here's my question to you then. Since majority of us live on here are Christians and live in the real world, not this sheltered "I'm the only right Christian, all others are condemned," Do you think that all of us that watch, read, and listen to fiction entertainment about ghost, ghouls, goblins, witches, and werewolves are going to "be with Satan"?


 
No, not if you are Saved.

In the Bible we are called to not be a stumbling block... I know there are many times I am a stumbling block to others, and I pray that I recognize those times, and correct them...

I guess the question we should be asking ourselves... Is what I am watching/reading/doing being a stumbling block to others??? And if it is, then should we really be doing it?

DB BB


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## BeenHuntn (Apr 8, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> Here's my question to you then. Since majority of us live on here are Christians and live in the real world, not this sheltered "I'm the only right Christian, all others are condemned," Do you think that all of us that watch, read, and listen to fiction entertainment about ghost, ghouls, goblins, witches, and werewolves are going to "be with Satan"?



how do you know the majority here are real Christians? did God tell you that the majority here are saved and on their way to heaven? i dont think so. the Bible does tell us who is truly saved and going to heaven, thus making them a Christian.  

do i think potter followers are going to be with satan? i have no idea.  i look at potter as being something similar to smoking cigs or drinking or cursing. a truly saved person can do it but it will grieve the Holy Spirit...

Ephesians 4:29-31
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

the problem is sin, not potter. sin is a disease that people have to get rid of or heaven will never be an option. the only way to get rid of the disease of sin is to be born again or regenerated by God.  

in the Bible, Jesus said, "why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do obey My commands..."  so there will be many who call Jesus, Lord, but are rebellious and will not enter heaven... because they were never regenerated.

Luke 13:26-28  
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

beenhuntn said:


> how do you know the majority here are real christians? Did god tell you that the majority here are saved and on their way to heaven? I dont think so. The bible does tell us who is truly saved and going to heaven, thus making them a christian.
> 
> Do i think potter followers are going to be with satan? I have no idea. I look at potter as being something similar to smoking cigs or drinking or cursing. A truly saved person can do it but it will grieve the holy spirit...
> 
> ...


 

*amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## rjcruiser (Apr 8, 2010)

You write this....



elfiii said:


> especially since the Bible is full of contradictions.



Then I write this.....



rjcruiser said:


> Well...I do know from your comment you don't believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture.



and you say this...



elfiii said:


> You would be incorrect.



How can you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and believe it has contradictions/errors?



			
				elfii said:
			
		

> Absolutely no offense taken, but again your reading of my faith is in error. See my reply above. I am a wretched mortal sinner and a fallible human. I know I do not have a full understanding of God's word and never will until that day He calls me home and reveals all to me. Of all the sins I have committed, either knowingly and willfully or innocently and unthinking, professing to know God's will is not one I ever commit. Even I have limits.
> 
> See Phil. 4:7, in whichever Bible you prefer.



What a wonderful promise God has made to us in that verse.  But...I think it is important to include the verses around it to give the proper context and how one obtain's the peace that surpasses all understanding.

6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 

 7  And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. 

 8  Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 

 9  The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.





chiefsquirrel83 said:


> I love my wife, family, friends, and foes....



So you don't have kids, yet you are responding to a thread about allowing your kids to watch something?

Just wait till you have kids, then you can speak to things which you understand/experience.


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## PWalls (Apr 8, 2010)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I guess the question we should be asking ourselves... Is what I am watching/reading/doing being a stumbling block to others??? And if it is, then should we really be doing it?
> 
> DB BB



That is an excellent question.


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 8, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> if we do wrong, we can hit our knees and ask for forgiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jmar28 (Apr 8, 2010)

My father is a pastor in Stockbridge Ga, I have a 14 month old son, with that being said.........I LOVE THE HARRY POTTER SERIES 

Have every book at the house and every movie as well. When my son gets older to understand movies and sit through them I will let him watch them. 

I am a christian and love the Lord and I will raise my son like that as well. 

I enjoy reading the bible as well as reading horror books to, I have The Exorcist and the Ammitiville Horror book as well as a number of Stephen King novels.

I also have Creflo Dollar books and Dr. Wayne Dyer books on spiritual guidance. 

To each his own I say. These books that I read I enjoy all the way from the Bible to Stephen King, I enjoy them and I will continue to do so. Why deny myself of enjoyment. When my son gets older and he wants to read any of my books, I will let him (I might wait till he's an teenager before letting him read the exorcist, freaking scary book). Just as my father did. I turned out pretty decent I think, I'm still a christian and Love the Lord

Oh and yes I will let my child read Harry Potter and watch the movies and when he gets about 5, were off to Disney World to take him to Hogwarts to see where Mr. Potter studied at (that trip is secretly for mama and daddy )


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## rjcruiser (Apr 8, 2010)

jmar28 said:


> I also have Creflo Dollar books and Dr. Wayne Dyer books on spiritual guidance.



Not sure if I'd look to Creflo $$ for spiritual guidance



			
				jmar28 said:
			
		

> Why deny myself of enjoyment.



I Cor 10:23

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.


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## jmar28 (Apr 8, 2010)

Creflo is actually a very good author, my father has ministered at his church a few times in the mid 90's. 

I notice that you have pretty much gave every scripture in the bible whenever somebody post something that contradicts your beliefsThat's fine, I'll be with you in Heaven praising the Lord Side by Side with you, and I'm sure J.K. Rowling will be there too

Cause like it says in Romans 14:13, let us not judge one another


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## Lowjack (Apr 8, 2010)

WOW 211 Posts about a fictional character.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 8, 2010)

jmar28 said:


> Creflo is actually a very good author, my father has ministered at his church a few times in the mid 90's.



Being a good author and being a good spiritual influence are 2 different things.  Personally, I don't hold much respect for pastors who fleece old women and say that God will bless only those who put $$ in the plate.  But that, is my personal opinion.



			
				jmar28 said:
			
		

> I notice that you have pretty much gave every scripture in the bible whenever somebody post something that contradicts your beliefsThat's fine, I'll be with you in Heaven praising the Lord Side by Side with you, and I'm sure J.K. Rowling will be there too
> 
> Cause like it says in Romans 14:13, let us not judge one another



I've given a few references...yes.  I like people to know what my source of belief's are.  After all, my opinions are not worth much if they are not in line with scripture.

Funny though, you quote Rom 14:13.  I agree...that chapter is a good one to read.

But then again, you can't look at one verse/chapter by itself, but rather the harmony of the scriptures.  

See John 7:24


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## Huntinfool (Apr 8, 2010)

I think it's hilarious how many participants in this thread are folks who have never seen the inside of this part of the forum before (or rarely at best).  It's like folks are coming out of the woodwork to make themselves feel better about the things they let their kids do, watch or listen to.  Funny how the "conscience" tells them that something isn't quite right.  But they aren't willing to do anything about it....it's much easier to defend it and recoil at the suggestion that there may be a better option.


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## jmar28 (Apr 8, 2010)

Not trying to  or anything but doesn't every church ask you to put $$ in the plate? Is that not called tithes, the famous 10%



Go Harry Potter!!!!! Just playing


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## Huntinfool (Apr 8, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> WOW 211 Posts about a fictional character.



Funny how many people will jump to defend something they let their kids do.....


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## secondseason (Apr 8, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> I think it's hilarious how many participants in this thread are folks who have never seen the inside of this part of the forum before (or rarely at best).  It's like folks are coming out of the woodwork to make themselves feel better about the things they let their kids do, watch or listen to.  Funny how the "conscience" tells them that something isn't quite right.  But they aren't willing to do anything about it....it's much easier to defend it and recoil at the suggestion that there may be a better option.



Maybe it would be a better and more inviting forum to come into if people such as yourself didn't believe that the chosen few are the only ones allowed in here.

No one likes to hear they are going to burn just because they don't believe exactly the way that you do.

I have tried on many occasions to participate in this forum and have come away feeling dirty and reproached.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 8, 2010)

I think we've talked about ol Harry enough


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