# How far is to far w/357?



## Sterling (Oct 2, 2010)

Went to make sure my rifles were on yesterday and thought I'd take my scoped Ruger .357 with me.  At 50 yards I had about a 9" group.  Now I know that my scope is only a 2x, but I was holding pretty still on the target.   I was using reload, but thought it would be grouped better than that.

Question: do you reload and if so, do you measure them out like you do a rifle load for accuracy? What else can I do for accuracy?

I'd like to use it this year, but if my groups are like that I won't have much confidence when it comes time to shoot.

Thanks for any advice you may have on the subject!


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## olchevy (Oct 2, 2010)

Sounds like a big group to me....If we shoot our 4'' 686 from a rest at 50 yards we average about 4'' but that is with iron sights. I would assume with a scope it would be easier.

I am going to keep it 20 yards or under, but that's me.


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## Sterling (Oct 2, 2010)

I was wondering if my reloads were loaded by volume measure instead of weight if that would be the major contributing factor of the large grouping.  

I guess I am also wondering what realistic expectations I should have for this gun that has a  7" barrel with a 2x scope.


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## blackbear (Oct 2, 2010)

Make sure you use a rest or at lest the side of a tree for a very steady solid hold when sighting in handguns,,,,also shoot closer and make sure your "on target real good " then shoot the longer range's,,,you might can change bullet weights and brands to get a better group...expermint......also yes measure your powder charges by all means if you want the best accuracy......good luck & have fun!


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## Sterling (Oct 2, 2010)

Had a bench rest so no problem there keeping steady, but didn't think of bullet weights.  I'll give it a try.  Thanks!


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## blackbear (Oct 2, 2010)

yes,if i shoot 158gr. bullets in mine and have the sights set for that bullet weight and then go and shoot 125gr...Iam all over the place...LOL


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## CAL (Oct 2, 2010)

blackbear said:


> Make sure you use a rest or at lest the side of a tree for a very steady solid hold when sighting in handguns,,,,also shoot closer and make sure your "on target real good " then shoot the longer range's,,,you might can change bullet weights and brands to get a better group...expermint......also yes measure your powder charges by all means if you want the best accuracy......good luck & have fun!



I agree with bear.only other thing I would suggest is to clean your pistol barrel clean of any lead fouling or copper fouling.You didn't state how many times your gun had been shot and whether the barrel was clean or not.Good luck!


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## Sterling (Oct 3, 2010)

How often do you clean your barrel? Every shot?


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## Dub (Oct 3, 2010)

Sterling said:


> I was wondering if my reloads were loaded by volume measure instead of weight if that would be the major contributing factor of the large grouping.  *Never heard of this practice before...every reloading manual I've ever read had the powder measured in grains of weight.  If somone is using a flow meter you would hope they were checking the weight every so often on their charges.  If not, then I'd never shoot their loads....ever.  It's a big trust factor if you are shooting handloads.  I'm just not fond of shooting them unless I did the work.*
> I guess I am also wondering what realistic expectations I should have for this gun that has a  7" barrel with a 2x scope.  *You have and ideal length tube for hunting...long enough to burn the maximum amount of powder and yeild your highest velocity.  A 2x scope is perfect for hunting.  With a perfect rest I'd want to see 3" or better groups at 50 yds.  Assuming your mount is tight and your single action trigger is light and crisp the hardware isn't the limiting factor....your steadiness is.  Takes a lot of practice.  Get your confidence at 25yds and then go from there.*







Sterling said:


> Went to make sure my rifles were on yesterday and thought I'd take my scoped Ruger .357 with me.  At 50 yards I had about a 9" group.  Now I know that my scope is only a 2x, but I was holding pretty still on the target.   I was using reload, but thought it would be grouped better than that.
> 
> *Something isn't right.  Put aside those reloads and check all mounting hardware to ensure nothing is loose.  Clean the gun really well...including each cylinder.  Get some quality ammo and start over at shorter distances.  You should be able to do very well with that revolver.
> 
> ...






Good luck.  I hope you get her dialed in to your satisfaction and get it in the woods this year.  Killing 'em with a handgun is pretty fun...almost as fun as with a bow.


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## frankwright (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree with Dub, There is a problem somewhere. 
Even with a solid rest, a handgun will magnify shooter error, so that is a consideration.
My 7.5" Redhawk with my reloads will shoot under 2" from a reasonable rests.
I do not measure every powder charge when loading for pistols but my RCBS Powder measure is pretty reliable and I double check every fifth round with a scale when loading hunting rounds.
Try eliminating problems one at a time. Check scope and mounts, try different ammo, let someone else shoot the gun etc.
Good Luck!


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## jmoser (Oct 4, 2010)

9" group at 50 yards?  Not the ammo  . . . . .


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## bowyer (Oct 4, 2010)

Good advice from frankwright. The only time I had a firearm scatter shots the way you describe was when the base screws for the scope were loose and let the scope position change with each shot. As to your question on  the powder load, I  measure my loads by volume which gives me groups around 1 1/2 inches at 50 yards with a scoped S&W 629.


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## Richard P (Oct 5, 2010)

Ideally projects such as this are started last April or May. Sometimes you just dont have time to do the research work. It's a bit short to try to get one on line for this season but you still might be able to do it.  Your 50yd group (scoped and rested) should be around 3 inches. Do you have access to a second scope to use for comparison ?


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## hunter44a (Oct 6, 2010)

I had a ultralite taurus 44mag that wasnt too accurate. I did a few things to make it better.
1. slugged cylinder throat and lapped it to make sure each throat was the same and didnt swage the bullet.
2. changed trigger springs
3. lightly smoothed out trigger parts.DO NOT OVERDUE JUST A TOUCH
4. put a new grip on it that fit my hand well
5. tried different bullet weights and and styles(hollow points, hardcast, etc)
this cut my groups in less than half. from 8 inches at 25yds to about 3.5


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## Kendallbearden (Oct 7, 2010)

Check the scope. I had a similar problem with one of my guns one time. The scope rings were tight, the base was tight, and i just couldn't figure out why i was getting such terrible groups. I came to find out that the actual recticule was moving inside my scope! I still haven't figured out exactly how that happened, but it did. I sent the scope back to the manufacturer and they sent me a replacement. Haven't had any problems since then.


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## WOODS N WATER (Oct 7, 2010)

CAL said:


> I agree with bear.only other thing I would suggest is to clean your pistol barrel clean of any lead fouling or copper fouling.You didn't state how many times your gun had been shot and whether the barrel was clean or not.Good luck!



X2 I had this problem a couple of years ago and cleaning the lead and copper fouling helped a lot. I would also load your pistol rounds like you do your rifle rounds especially if you are trying to group them.


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## Sterling (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I am going to go over this thing completely to see what the issue is.  I KNOW I was steady so there has to be something up.  I'll get back to you on it when I get a chance to put some rounds through it after the once over. Thanks again!


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## thomas the redneck (Nov 14, 2010)

speaking from a cowboy action shooter's prospective 
reloaded bulletts have so many varables 
bullett weight pure lead tire wieght lead and reclamed lead all from the same mold will have a diffrent weight 
reloaders and i dont care who you are or what kind of press your using will "drop" non consistant powder loads unless you weigh each bullett and charge acordingly like you would for a match grade rifle load
i am not saying reload are a bad thing i shoot 300 to 500 a month but like most folks that reload i make my own bullett lead and let the dillon handle the powder,crimp and depth the lead is set in the casing and they all effect acuracy
so before you blame the gun change ammo a time or two and see how it shoots


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## thomas the redneck (Nov 14, 2010)

but thats just the way i see it for whats its worth


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## nickE10mm (Nov 15, 2010)

Sterling said:


> Went to make sure my rifles were on yesterday and thought I'd take my scoped Ruger .357 with me.  At 50 yards I had about a 9" group.  Now I know that my scope is only a 2x, but I was holding pretty still on the target.   I was using reload, but thought it would be grouped better than that.
> 
> Question: do you reload and if so, do you measure them out like you do a rifle load for accuracy? What else can I do for accuracy?
> 
> ...




You're right ... 9" would not be good enough to hunt with and no, confidence would not be good.   

My GUESS would be shooter error.  There could definitely be a hardware issue but, as I said, my GUESS would be shooter error.  50 yards is a long way and takes quite a bit of practice to become proficient at that range.  Keep that in mind when you're regularly going to the range every week for 6 months   

Let us know what happens, bud!


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## CAL (Nov 15, 2010)

Clean your barrel with a lead and copper solvent.Scrub the barrel with a brass brush to be sure it is clean.Weigh each powder charge to be accurate.If  all else is in order and you do your part,your gun should shoot better than what you have posted.


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## GAR (Nov 15, 2010)

Not to hijack this thread but I will be working on a project here that will involve probably the limits of a 357magnums range.

Going to try to find the right combination with a heavy cast LBT style bullet and 296/H110 powder.

The bottom Ruger Redhawk is an out of production 357magnum that I will be putting a scope on. Just got to find the mounts I like best.

The upper Redhawk is an out of production hunter model in 45 Colt.

Tom


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## jo_dawg69 (Nov 27, 2010)

my shootin buddy has a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag with the longest barrel, not sure the actual length, maybe 10.5''? anyways, he had a scope on it, and we shot it quite a bit one day, using the super heavy buffalo bore rounds, and it actually broke the scope, knocked the reticle loose. magnum round handguns are notorious for wearing out scopes really fast. make sure that the base, rings, and scope are all very well fastened. use a little bit of blue loctite if you have to.


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## 95g atl (Nov 28, 2010)

Sterling said:


> I was wondering if my reloads were loaded by volume measure instead of weight if that would be the major contributing factor of the large grouping.



I would weigh each load if used for hunting.  Sometimes volume isn't accurate.  



nickE10mm said:


> You're right ... 9" would not be good enough to hunt with and no, confidence would not be good.
> 
> My GUESS would be shooter error.  There could definitely be a hardware issue but, as I said, my GUESS would be shooter error.  50 yards is a long way and takes quite a bit of practice to become proficient at that range.  Keep that in mind when you're regularly going to the range every week for 6 months
> 
> Let us know what happens, bud!



Yup.
Make sure scope isn't loose and practice practice practice.
You should have no more than a 4-6" group imo.

Good luck.


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## pistolpete1957 (Nov 28, 2010)

*Had the same problem with 2 scopes in my life*



Kendallbearden said:


> Check the scope. I had a similar problem with one of my guns one time. The scope rings were tight, the base was tight, and i just couldn't figure out why i was getting such terrible groups. I came to find out that the actual recticule was moving inside my scope! I still haven't figured out exactly how that happened, but it did. I sent the scope back to the manufacturer and they sent me a replacement. Haven't had any problems since then.



You are absolutely right Kendall, Both times it happened to me the scopes were Bushnell"s. I don't buy them anymore.


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## Swamp Man (Nov 28, 2010)

I used to shoot reloads in a Ruger Blackhawk .357 magnum before some lowlife stole it out of my Bronco years ago.  Had a 6 inch barrel, and a gunsmith worked the trigger over so that it fired at 3 #.
  I cast and shot Elmer Keith's .358429 semi-wadcutter and another semi-wadcutter that was .357447 or .357477(or something like that.)  Very accurate and a good killer.  Unique, Herco and Bullseye powders.
  As for scopes on a handgun..... get rid of the scope.  You shouldn't be shooting anything past 50 yards with a handgun anyway.  Just make sure your pistol or revolver has adjustable sights.


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## HandgunHTR (Nov 29, 2010)

> As for scopes on a handgun..... get rid of the scope.  You shouldn't be shooting anything past 50 yards with a handgun anyway.



Why do you say that?


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## ironhead7544 (Nov 29, 2010)

You didnt say what bullet/powder you are using.  You may have to try a few before you get a good one.  Any of the 158 gr jacketed bullets with a charge of WW296 should give 2 and 1/2 inch groups with your gun and scope.   If I were hunting with a 357 Id get the Beartooth Bullets 185 gr FNGC and load them with WW296.  Just my .02.


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## nickE10mm (Nov 29, 2010)

Swamp Man said:


> ...
> As for scopes on a handgun..... get rid of the scope.  You shouldn't be shooting anything past 50 yards with a handgun anyway.  Just make sure your pistol or revolver has adjustable sights.




My opinion is that scopes on a* .357 mag* can mean trouble for newer handgun hunters because it enables (or encourages) them to take longer shots than the caliber should be used for.... however, that doesn't mean that they have no use.  So long as responsible shots / ranges are used, they have their benefits, especially for low-light situations.

Also, there are plenty of other handguns / calibers that are way more than 50 yard combos so there definitely *is *a use for scopes, IMHO.


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