# Michael Vick 30 for 30



## mark-7mag (Feb 11, 2020)

Has anyone else  watched it? I thought it was really good. There’s always two sides to every story. I’m glad I got to hear Vick’s side.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

No thanks.

I don’t need to hear the side of a piece of garbage like Vick.


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

Wow


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## killerv (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> No thanks.
> 
> I don’t need to hear the side of a piece of garbage like Vick.



Huh? He did is time and one of the few I feel have been really remorseful since. He's doing well and came out of this a better person.


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## Duff (Feb 12, 2020)

I have not. I’ll check it out though. Thanks


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## DSGB (Feb 12, 2020)

I watched the first part and half of the second. I turned it off when the race card was drawn. I may watch the rest of it one of these days.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> Huh? He did is time and one of the few I feel have been really remorseful since. He's doing well and came out of this a better person.



Oh... Boo... hoo.... hooo..... 

Vick should still be in jail. He's a piece of garbage that ran a multi state dog killing factory. He was the kingpin of the operation.


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## dslc6487 (Feb 12, 2020)

My dogs are part of my family, and, I treat them as such.  They are well fed, get expert medical care, have a warm place to sleep and the best food that I can provide for them.  They are also very much loved.
Vick does not fit into this scenario.  If I had been the judge, he, or anyone treating dogs in such manner as Vick would never get out of jail......


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## jbird1 (Feb 12, 2020)

A fine piece of Social Engineering by ESPIN


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

dslc6487 said:


> My dogs are part of my family, and, I treat them as such.  They are well fed, get expert medical care, have a warm place to sleep and the best food that I can provide for them.  They are also very much loved.
> Vick does not fit into this scenario.  If I had been the judge, he, or anyone treating dogs in such manner as Vick would never get out of jail......


Shallow unmarked grave works for me. Let the Yotes dig him up.


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## spurrs and racks (Feb 12, 2020)

Wow........some of you have a long way to go.


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

After seeing where and how he grew up I can see how someone could get caught up in that sort of thing. I believe that all he ever wanted was to get as many friends and family out of the projects which he did. Unfortunately a few were  bad. He went to prison and did his time and is very remorseful. I can’t expect God to forgive me for things I’ve done if I cant forgive Mike Vick. In the end, no humans were harmed, only dogs. And yes, I have dogs


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## TinKnocker (Feb 12, 2020)

DSGB said:


> I turned it off when the race card was drawn.


I believe the race card was played because he got a sentence FOUR TIMES any previous violations. 


Browning Slayer said:


> Vick should still be in jail.


So he got 4x the jail sentence as anyone in history, but that wasn't enough?


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## treemanjohn (Feb 12, 2020)

I thought it was a great show. It's always nice to see both sides. He could have very well been the best quarterback in NFL history if he only would have studied, worked harder, and get his mind right. Dude to could accurately throw a football out of sight and run like a deer.

 He had an incredible support system and turned his back on it. Dan Reeves and Arthur blank we're his biggest fans. What could have been


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> I thought it was a great show. It's always nice to see both sides. He could have very well been the best quarterback in NFL history if he only would have studied, worked harder, and get his mind right. Dude to could accurately throw a football out of sight and run like a deer.
> 
> He had an incredible support system and turned his back on it. Dan Reeves and Arthur blank we're his biggest fans. What could have been


Yea. Dan Reeves admits that him playing Vick in that preseason game got him fired. I wish he could of had a couple more years with Vick as QB


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## Whitefeather (Feb 12, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> I thought it was a great show. It's always nice to see both sides. He could have very well been the best quarterback in NFL history if he only would have studied, worked harder, and get his mind right. Dude to could accurately throw a football out of sight and run like a deer.
> 
> He had an incredible support system and turned his back on it. Dan Reeves and Arthur blank we're his biggest fans. What could have been


Ditto. What a wasted talent. After what he did to the Falcons, I still don’t get why they keep bringing him back.


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## Flash (Feb 12, 2020)

ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

Flash said:


> ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.


And not all convicted felons have millions to fall back on.


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## jiminbogart (Feb 12, 2020)

spurrs and racks said:


> Wow........some of you have a long way to go.



Why don't you spell it out instead of being passive-aggressive?


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## jiminbogart (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> Huh? He did is time and one of the few I feel have been really remorseful since. He's doing well and came out of this a better person.



You can do your time and still be trash.

As far as remorseful goes, being remorseful and having a $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee at the gas station. 

Most folks who get caught are remorseful.

If I speed and get a speeding ticket I'm remorseful. If I don't get caught it's all good.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

mark-7mag said:


> In the end, no humans were harmed, only dogs.



I guess ^that^ makes his actions acceptable. Pffftttt..... Hanging dogs, drowning them in buckets, throwing family pets in the rings to train his dogs..

Yep.. Such a model citizen. You folks wouldn't be feeling sorry for ol Vick if he wasn't a football player.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

But.. but.. he was such a talented football player.. And now he is remorseful.. Maybe cause he lost all of his $$$ except for $20 million or so..


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> I guess ^that^ makes his actions acceptable. Pffftttt..... Hanging dogs, drowning them in buckets, throwing family pets in the rings to train his dogs..
> 
> Not at all
> 
> Yep.. Such a model citizen. You folks wouldn't be feeling sorry for ol Vick if he wasn't a football player.



i wouldn’t know him if he wasn’t a football player


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

mark-7mag said:


> i wouldn’t know him if he wasn’t a football player


Wouldn’t feel sorry for him either.


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## elfiii (Feb 12, 2020)

The only thing I watch on ESPIN is college football and the occasional Braves game. If Mike Vick is rehabilitated that's a good thing. I still don't want to have anything to do with him and he's part of the reason I quit on pro football.


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## killerv (Feb 12, 2020)

Well, it seems the lack of forgiveness in this society has a lot to do with where we are at these days. Some of you need to brush up on the Bible, would you be making some of these comments if Jesus was standing next to you? Or lets say you had a son get caught up in something like this or peddling drugs, etc, do his time..and when all is over everyone called him a piece of trash...I'm assuming you would too I guess.


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## jiminbogart (Feb 12, 2020)

elfiii said:


> The only thing I watch on ESPIN is college football and the occasional Braves game.



ESPN gets not 1 second of business from me. I hope that leftist conglomerate goes bankrupt. 

I will admit I looked at swimsuit issue pictures(not on ESPN's site though). I saw that they went all PC and started having fat chicks pose in bikinis. Y'all can have my share.


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## elfiii (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> Well, it seems the lack of forgiveness in this society has a lot to do with where we are at these days. Some of you need to brush up on the Bible, would you be making some of these comments if Jesus was standing next to you? Or lets say you had a son get caught up in something like this or peddling drugs, etc, do his time..and when all is over everyone called him a piece of trash...I'm assuming you would too I guess.



Forgiveness is different from not forgetting.


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## jiminbogart (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> Well, it seems the lack of forgiveness in this society has a lot to do with where we are at these days. Some of you need to brush up on the Bible, would you be making some of these comments if Jesus was standing next to you? Or lets say you had a son get caught up in something like this, do his time..and when all is over everyone called him a piece of trash...I'm assuming you would too I guess.




What does forgivness have to do with an opion on someones character?

Vick doesn't want my forgives and Vick does not care. 

He has done nothing to me and mine so there is nothing for me to forgive him for.

The above does not prohibit me from stating, that in my opinion, Vick is trash.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> Well, it seems the lack of forgiveness in this society has a lot to do with where we are at these days. Some of you need to brush up on the Bible, would you be making some of these comments if Jesus was standing next to you? Or lets say you had a son get caught up in something like this or peddling drugs, etc, do his time..and when all is over everyone called him a piece of trash...I'm assuming you would too I guess.




I bet you forgave OJ Simpson after he got out of jail too..

Just open the prison's and let all of the "remorseful" people out..


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## killerv (Feb 12, 2020)

The laugh is on you. God forgives and wants us to forgive others. Doesn't mean you have to forget, but to truly forgive means the trash talking stops. I suggest you figure that out before your day comes and I pray that you do. 

Your prison statement doesn't make a lot of sense.... Vick, did his time and got out. 

I don't remember OJ ever owning up to his situation, he still denies it to his day.


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## killerv (Feb 12, 2020)

elfiii said:


> Forgiveness is different from not forgetting.



 never said it wasnt


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## Mexican Squealer (Feb 12, 2020)

I forgive him and believe he is a worthless piece of garbage.


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## Waddams (Feb 12, 2020)

As a VT grad, it was rather heartbreaking to see one of our favorite son's turn out to be doing what he was doing. He was using his $millions as a resource to bankroll sadism and cruelty. He deserved the consequence of prison and losing the resources so he couldn't continue or go back to doing it again.

As for "rehabilitated" or "remorseful", I don't know that for certain, I do know he went bankrupt to the tune of $millions, but after he got out of prison, he did eventually pay off all that debt.

I know he paid the price set by our laws for what he did. Whether it was enough or not, I don't make the law so I won't comment on that. For those that say he paid more than some people that rape and murder, well then those rapist and murderers got off with a lot less than they should have. I don't think it's a good point of comparison.

As for racism factoring into the sentence, all I can say is cry me a river. He deserved a sentence that ensured he'd never do those things again. He got it.

I doubt he's 100% a saint in his soul now. I know he paid the debt the legal system said he owed, and I know he went back and paid off all his bankruptcy. He manned up to what the legal system and bankruptcy courts said he had to, and as far as I know, he's stayed out of trouble since.

Last thing - there's always a strong reaction to him. We all need to realize Vick doesn't deserve a moral forgiveness from everyone. He's not entitled to that. Me personally, if someone thinks he's paid his debt, I can respect that. If someone thinks he's still unforgivable in the aftermath now, I can respect that too. I think both positions are valid.

Regardless of where you sit personally, Vick has tainted himself forever, and deservedly so. To me, it's up to each observer just how much.


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> And not all convicted felons have millions to fall back on.



He didn’t either, he lost it all.  But he had a choice to accept responsibility for his actions, turn them to a better good and to help others.  He did that, and has earned every dollar since.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

killerv said:


> but to truly forgive means the trash talking stops. I suggest you figure that out before your day comes and I pray that you do.




Well... I guess I'll need some extra padding cause my seat it going to be "HOT"!

And I don't forgive him. He is a worthless piece of trash that should be thrown in a cage with a few of his dogs. Or maybe drown in a bucket. Or thrown over a 2x4 nailed to a tree in the back yard with a short piece of para cord tied around his neck. That's fair right? An eye for eye? It's exactly what he did to those dogs.

For the ones that say "no human" was harmed... He was running an illegal dog fighting operation. That comes with drugs, cash and folks that aren't your model citizens. Please tell me no one got hurt due to his "Enterprise".


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

jiminbogart said:


> Why don't you spell it out instead of being passive-aggressive?


just did homie


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> Well... I guess I'll need some extra padding cause my seat it going to be "HOT"!
> 
> And I don't forgive him. He is a worthless piece of trash that should be thrown in a cage with a few of his dogs. Or maybe drown in a bucket. Or thrown over a 2x4 nailed to a tree in the back yard with a short piece of para cord tied around his neck. That's fair right? An eye for eye? It's exactly what he did to those dogs.
> 
> For the ones that say "no human" was harmed... He was running an illegal dog fighting operation. That comes with drugs, cash and folks that aren't your model citizens. Please tell me no one got hurt do to his "Enterprise".



You intentionally drown fish in an ice chest (slow death) all the time right?


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

James12 said:


> You intentionally drown fish in an ice chest (slow death) all the time right?


Shoot deer thru the heart too.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

James12 said:


> You intentionally drown fish in an ice chest (slow death) all the time right?


 I've killed so many animals I couldn't tell you how many to be exact.


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## ddavis1120 (Feb 12, 2020)

I think Vick was one of the best football players ever and must see TV in his heyday.  Just like all the other rocket scientists that play the games I like to follow, play the music I like to listen to or entertain in the entertainment venues I enjoy; I don't let their brilliance, morality, courage or lack there of impact my life.  

Vick was a dumb kid from the streets that was thrown in a situation that no one on this board can remotely relate to.  That doesn't excuse his actions.  But I tend to put things into a perspective I can relate to.  As such, I don't know many people that would have made all the right choices given similar circumstances no matter what their upbringing.  Doesn't make it right, but it does give a level of understanding.


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## elfiii (Feb 12, 2020)

ddavis1120 said:


> Vick was a dumb kid from the streets that was thrown in a situation that no one on this board can remotely relate to.  That doesn't excuse his actions.



If you have made it to college without knowing that torturing animals is bad wrong I got nothing for you. I hope he has straightened his life out. He has paid his debt to society. He's still got a lot of penitence to do to wipe the slate clean.


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## transfixer (Feb 12, 2020)

the public's infatuation with idolizing these sports figures is what gives them the means to do all the things they do,  just because someone is good at throwing , catching or running with a football does not make them someone to be idolized, Vick was a thug before he got caught,  he's remorseful he got caught,  seriously doubt he's really sorry about all the dogs that were harmed because of what he organized,  if he cared about animals or living things in general he would never have even entertained the idea of dog fighting.   He should have concentrated on his education more while he was in school,  last time i saw him interviewed he still couldn't even talk plainly


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## Whitefeather (Feb 12, 2020)

transfixer said:


> the public's infatuation with idolizing these sports figures is what gives them the means to do all the things they do,  just because someone is good at throwing , catching or running with a football does not make them someone to be idolized, Vick was a thug before he got caught,  he's remorseful he got caught,  seriously doubt he's really sorry about all the dogs that were harmed because of what he organized,  if he cared about animals or living things in general he would never have even entertained the idea of dog fighting.   He should have concentrated on his education more while he was in school,  last time i saw him interviewed he still couldn't even talk plainly


And yet he's still heralded by the media, NFL, and Falcons. He got a job as an OC on an arena team but admits he couldn't read defenses. He's now on a pregame show grumbling/stumbling/grumbling through his synopsis on how the game should be played. I still don't understand the fascination with him.


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## ddavis1120 (Feb 12, 2020)

elfiii said:


> If you have made it to college without knowing that torturing animals is bad wrong I got nothing for you.



I've seen much smarter people than Vick rationalize worse.  As a native son of the North Georgia mountains I knew a preacher that enjoyed cock fighting; as long as it wasn't on a Sunday!?


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

Whitefeather said:


> And yet he's still heralded by the media, NFL, and Falcons.




And some on here.


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## Raylander (Feb 12, 2020)

ddavis1120 said:


> I've seen much smarter people than Vick rationalize worse.  As a native son of the North Georgia mountains I knew a preacher that enjoyed cock fighting; as long as it wasn't on a Sunday!?



Plenty of cockfighting going on in NGA. I see ALOT of a-frames with stakes around.


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## joepuppy (Feb 12, 2020)

I was never a Vick fan. But he paid his price for his crime, not much else I can say. the way you are raised affects you. He's wealthy and famous, so we hear about it more. Truth is these days, if you knew half the stuff people done wrong, you'd respect a lot fewer folks. Especially elected officials. I tend not to judge, and just hoe my own row. Problem with pointing a finger, there's always several pointing right back at you.


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## jiminbogart (Feb 12, 2020)

James12 said:


> just did homie



What are you blabbering about Ace? I did not quote your comment.


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## elfiii (Feb 12, 2020)

ddavis1120 said:


> I've seen much smarter people than Vick rationalize worse.  As a native son of the North Georgia mountains I knew a preacher that enjoyed cock fighting; as long as it wasn't on a Sunday!?



I wouldn't go back to that preacher's church myself.


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

ddavis1120 said:


> I've seen much smarter people than Vick rationalize worse.  As a native son of the North Georgia mountains I knew a preacher that enjoyed cock fighting; as long as it wasn't on a Sunday!?


i wonder if cock fighting has a lesser sentence if convicted


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## Raylander (Feb 12, 2020)

mark-7mag said:


> i wonder if cock fighting has a lesser sentence if convicted



He went to prison for crossing state lines. Particularly gambling. That’s a big no-no. It becomes federal then


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

Dogs, deer, fish, cows, hogs, horses, chickens are all animals. If you've ever killed or maimed any of em then you've got something in common with Ol Vick


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

I absolutely love dogs with all my heart. I absolutely hate pitbulls with a black passion.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

Come on now.
 Deer hunters and meet eaters having something in common with Michael Vick's actions is quite the stretch.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Come on now.
> Deer hunters and meet eaters having something in common with Michael Vick's actions is quite the stretch.



Ever made a bad shot and maimed a deer? Watched a tracking dog somebody turned loose latching onto a nearly dead buck?

How about some hog hunters shooting hogs in the gut and letting them run off to die? Taking pics of their kill with guts hanging half out. 

Putting a baitfish on a hook in hope of catching a larger fish??

Trapping coyotes??

Ripping or biting the head off a dove that's still alive??

All can be viewed as torture


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

None of that can be compared with what Michael big did.


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## The Original Rooster (Feb 12, 2020)

Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> None of that can be compared with what Michael big did.



So putting a baitfish on a hook, then keeping him on a string until something eats him alive isnt torture?


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## Mexican Squealer (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> Ever made a bad shot and maimed a deer? Watched a tracking dog somebody turned loose latching onto a nearly dead buck?
> 
> How about some hog hunters shooting hogs in the gut and letting them run off to die? Taking pics of their kill with guts hanging half out.
> 
> ...


One of the dumbest posts ever made on GON...


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

Mexican Squealer said:


> One of the dumbest posts ever made on GON...



??? 

Shooting a deer or a dog is the exact same thing.


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## Mexican Squealer (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> ???
> 
> Shooting a deer or a dog is the exact same thing.


Second dumbest post ever on GON...you are on a roll


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> ???
> 
> Shooting a deer or a dog is the exact same thing.


I love and respect deer. I don't give a flying crap about a freaking pitbull. I have more sympathy for an armadillo.


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## The Original Rooster (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I love and respect deer. I don't give a flying crap about a freaking pitbull. I have more sympathy for an armadillo.


My Christmas list for NCHillbilly just doubled in size!
1. Beans
2. Pitbulls

Can't wait to see what's next!


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

RoosterTodd said:


> My Christmas list for NCHillbilly just doubled in size!
> 1. Beans
> 2. Pitbulls
> 
> Can't wait to see what's next!


I'll take the beans. They have never ripped any of my family and friends up, at least.


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## Resica (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I absolutely love dogs with all my heart. I absolutely hate pitbulls with a black passion.



I take each dog on a dog to dog basis. Plenty of nice pitbulls and plenty of nasty dogs from other breeds. Don't judge a book by it's cover.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

Resica said:


> I take each dog on a dog to dog basis. Plenty of nice pitbulls and plenty of nasty dogs from other breeds. Don't judge a book by it's cover.


If you trust one, you are an absolute idiot. They can be really sweet for years. Then they flip out for no reason. You ever seen a three-year-old girl ripped apart by one of those loveable creatures that was such a nice dog for years? You ever had to kill one that was attacking you for no reason? It's not the owner, it's the dog. There may be some that are ok, but I will never trust one. They may be sweet to you and kill your neighbor, or they may turn on you, too. I've seen way too much evidence in person not to. You can hate me all you want to. There's a reason why pitbulls account for the vast, vast majority of fatal dog attacks and dog maimings, even though they are a very low percentage of dogs owned in the US. The same reason blueticks tree coons and beagles run rabbits. Genetics. Pitbulls kill and maim people, as I've seen myself way too many times. Keep your head in the sand and repeat the koolaid propaganda. Dogs ain't dogs. Each breed was developed for a specific purpose. You may take each dog on a dog to dog basis, but tell me how many of those beagles or Brittany Spaniels kill the neighbor's kid. It happens every single day with a pitbull.

Any breed of dog can bite you. Very few breeds don't stop until you're dead when they decide to bite you. One of them statistically, as a matter of fact.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

Mexican Squealer said:


> Second dumbest post ever on GON...you are on a roll



You're blinded by the culture in which you were raised.....Just like Vick


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

I just hope no one throwing stones on here as ever killed a thing for no reason.  Birds squirrels with BB guns as kids, or teenagers, or even larger animals and of course fishees.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I love and respect deer. I don't give a flying crap about a freaking pitbull. I have more sympathy for an armadillo.



I don't trust a pit as far as I can throw them and absolutely cannot stand a dadgum Chihuahua.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

James12 said:


> I just hope no one throwing stones on here as ever killed a thing for no reason.  Birds squirrels with BB guns as kids, or teenagers, or even larger animals and of course fishees.



Biggest stone Im seeing thrown in here is someone comparing me and sticking a hook in a bait fish and throwng it out in front of another fish to get eaten with Michael Vick's holding a dog by its hind legs and smashing it into the pavement repeatedly until it's dead.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Biggest stone Im seeing thrown in here is someone comparing me and sticking a hook in a bait fish and throwng it out in front of another fish to get eaten with Michael Vick's holding a dog by its hind legs and smashing it into the pavement repeatedly until it's dead.



I guess the baitfish is ok because you can't see what it's going through under that water?

What about shooting a hog and letting it run off to die? What's the difference?

A coyote stuck in a trap all night chewing at his leg only to have you come and put a bullet in his head?


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

The bait fish is OK because God gave us dominion over the animals to do what we must in order to feed ourselves.  According to your line of thought, even the animals who are killed for the grocery score are tortured. Killing animals for joy does not fall into that department. You are passing a lot of judgment on others you don't know. I've never done either of the other 2 things.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> I don't trust a pit as far as I can throw them and absolutely cannot stand a dadgum Chihuahua.


If Chihuahuas weighed 100 pounds, the human race would be extinct.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> The bait fish is OK because God gave us dominion over the animals to do what we must in order to feed ourselves.  According to your line of thought, even the animals who are killed for the grocery score are tortured. Killing animals for joy does not fall into that department. You are passing a lot of judgment on others you don't know. I've never done either of the other 2 things.


Fish and most animals were here long before we were, just sayin'.....


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## 1982ace (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If you trust one, you are an absolute idiot. They can be really sweet for years. Then they flip out for no reason. You ever seen a three-year-old girl ripped apart by one of those loveable creatures that was such a nice dog for years? You ever had to kill one that was attacking you for no reason? It's not the owner, it's the dog. There may be some that are ok, but I will never trust one. They may be sweet to you and kill your neighbor, or they may turn on you, too. I've seen way too much evidence in person not to. You can hate me all you want to. There's a reason why pitbulls account for the vast, vast majority of fatal dog attacks and dog maimings, even though they are a very low percentage of dogs owned in the US. The same reason blueticks tree coons and beagles run rabbits. Genetics. Pitbulls kill and maim people, as I've seen myself way too many times. Keep your head in the sand and repeat the koolaid propaganda. Dogs ain't dogs. Each breed was developed for a specific purpose. You may take each dog on a dog to dog basis, but tell me how many of those beagles or Brittany Spaniels kill the neighbor's kid. It happens every single day with a pitbull.
> 
> Any breed of dog can bite you. Very few breeds don't stop until you're dead when they decide to bite you. One of them statistically, as a matter of fact.





NCHillbilly said:


> If you trust one, you are an absolute idiot. They can be really sweet for years. Then they flip out for no reason. You ever seen a three-year-old girl ripped apart by one of those loveable creatures that was such a nice dog for years? You ever had to kill one that was attacking you for no reason? It's not the owner, it's the dog. There may be some that are ok, but I will never trust one. They may be sweet to you and kill your neighbor, or they may turn on you, too. I've seen way too much evidence in person not to. You can hate me all you want to. There's a reason why pitbulls account for the vast, vast majority of fatal dog attacks and dog maimings, even though they are a very low percentage of dogs owned in the US. The same reason blueticks tree coons and beagles run rabbits. Genetics. Pitbulls kill and maim people, as I've seen myself way too many times. Keep your head in the sand and repeat the koolaid propaganda. Dogs ain't dogs. Each breed was developed for a specific purpose. You may take each dog on a dog to dog basis, but tell me how many of those beagles or Brittany Spaniels kill the neighbor's kid. It happens every single day with a pitbull.
> 
> Any breed of dog can bite you. Very few breeds don't stop until you're dead when they decide to bite you. One of them statistically, as a matter of fact.


The reason why there is a high percentage of dog attacks from pit bulls is because of high percentage of owners that create a dog that is more likely to attack. Example: kept on short chain, no human interactions etc. I do agree that they are more likely to seriously injure someone if bitten. They tend to lock on when biting. They were bred for bull fighting by the way and not to kill and maim people. I’d say it’s 90% owner and 10% dog. I’ve had pit bulls, bulldogs,dobermans,a Rottweiler,labs. I have never had a dog That was mine turn on me or bite me.


----------



## oops1 (Feb 12, 2020)

Ol mullet  head mark done opened up a serious can-o-worms up in hera


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> Fish and most animals were here long before we were, just sayin'.....



 Yeah I'll go with that.
 I just can't believe that someone's going to come on here and compare what sportsmen do with what Michael Vick did. Total 180ﾟ dichotomy if you ask me.


----------



## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If Chihuahuas weighed 100 pounds, the human race would be extinct.


???


----------



## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Yeah I'll go with that.
> I just can't believe that someone's going to come on here and compare what sportsmen do with what Michael Vick did. Total 180ﾟ dichotomy if you ask me.



We’re not talking about “Sportsman”, we’re talking about the reality of it.  Like S&S said... What’s the difference in maiming a hog to suffer and die, or allowing a coyote to chew it’s leg off all night?  I think it’s an interesting discussion.  One was for money, one is done and promoted on this very platform to kill a population.  Heck one could argue we’re all screwing with the ecosystem and taking matters into our own hands too.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

Yes, one could argue.
 Do not paint me as a Michael Vick for enjoying the outdoors by fishing and hunting.


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## John Cooper (Feb 12, 2020)

ddavis1120 said:


> I've seen much smarter people than Vick rationalize worse.  As a native son of the North Georgia mountains I knew a preacher that enjoyed cock fighting; as long as it wasn't on a Sunday!?





worleyburd86 said:


> Plenty of cockfighting going on in NGA. I see ALOT of a-frames with stakes around.


Man y'all would have to bring up cock fighting........ that's a southern tradition!!!!!

There was a time in GA. Not that many years ago, that if you were caught and charged with cruelty to animals for cock fighting, your case would be thrown out. Chickens were classified as fowl and not animals.


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## James12 (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Yes, one could argue.
> Do not paint me as a Michael Vick for enjoying the outdoors by fishing and hunting.



No one’s painting you, so don’t jump under the brush.  Hunting and fishing done the right way can be argued all day long against all other animal torture, so long as we’re using the harvest as intended (Rise and eat).


----------



## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> The bait fish is OK because God gave us dominion over the animals to do what we must in order to feed ourselves.  According to your line of thought, even the animals who are killed for the grocery score are tortured. Killing animals for joy does not fall into that department. You are passing a lot of judgment on others you don't know. I've never done either of the other 2 things.



You eat every fish you catch on live bait? How about tournament fishing??

What about the guys wounding mature bucks and "let's pull out and find him in the morning"? LOTS of hunters now days are after horns and not meat. 


I'm not passing judgement on anyone. I love hunting and fishing but don't think for one second it's not a violent thing.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

Agree it's violent.
Some of us go out of her way to avoid the worst of it, unlike your assertions.
The comparison with Michael Vick's actions is what I am arguing about.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

1982ace said:


> The reason why there is a high percentage of dog attacks from pit bulls is because of high percentage of owners that create a dog that is more likely to attack. Example: kept on short chain, no human interactions etc. I do agree that they are more likely to seriously injure someone if bitten. They tend to lock on when biting. They were bred for bull fighting by the way and not to kill and maim people. I’d say it’s 90% owner and 10% dog. I’ve had pit bulls, bulldogs,dobermans,a Rottweiler,labs. I have never had a dog That was mine turn on me or bite me.


If you believe that, you're an idiot. I've seen a three-year old girl ripped up by a "friendly, lovable for years" family pet. She died. I've been attacked by them for no reason. I had a good friend spent six months in a hospital and almost died because his friend's "friendly, lovable" pitbull attacked him for no reason. While his friend was trying his best to get it off of him. None of these dogs were kept on short chains with no human interaction. They are genetically predisposed to be violent. Period. I used to have this same stupid argument with one of my best friends. He wound up shooting his after it killed his other dog and attacked his wife for no reason one day. Pitbulls are genetic time bombs. You can believe what you want. But it isn't the truth. Statistics tell you the truth.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Agree it's violent.
> Some of us go out of her way to avoid the worst of it, unlike your assertions.
> The comparison with Michael Vick's actions is what I am arguing about.


I can agree.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If you believe that, you're an idiot. I've seen a three-year old girl ripped up by a "friendly, lovable for years" family pet. She died. I've been attacked by them for no reason. I had a good friend spent six months in a hospital and almost died because his friend's "friendly, lovable" pitbull attacked him for no reason. While his friend was trying his best to get it off of him. None of these dogs were kept on short chains with no human interaction. They are genetically predisposed to be violent. Period. I used to have this same stupid argument with one of my best friends. He wound up shooting his after it killed his other dog and attacked his wife for no reason one day. Pitbulls are genetic time bombs. You can believe what you want. But it isn't the truth. Statistics tell you the truth.



I had one that was fine around people but dang near killed my hound dog. After that she became dog aggressive and I just never could trust her. Got rid of her when we got pregnant....My ex wife is still mad about that? 

To this day I get nervous when my kid is around any dog but I wont let her around a pit.


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

oops1 said:


> Ol mullet  head mark done opened up a serious can-o-worms up in hera


I like to provoke some deep thinking


----------



## transfixer (Feb 12, 2020)

Anyone who doesn't know the difference between what Vick was doing with dog fighting  and what hunters and fishermen do ,,,, has a lower IQ score than Vick does .


----------



## 1eyefishing (Feb 12, 2020)

mark-7mag said:


> I like to provoke some deep thinking



 I wonder what they call male ladybugs?


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

so... how many of you Vick sympathizers would want him married to your daughter???


Crickets.............

He’s good when he’s winning football games for you.


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## 1982ace (Feb 12, 2020)

I’m not saying that you have not had any bad experiences with them. All I said was I never had problems with any.  probably because of the way I raised them. To each it’s own. I say you’re a idiot for having dachshunds held up to your face. I knew someone with a mean one.?


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> So putting a baitfish on a hook, then keeping him on a string until something eats him alive isnt torture?


Nope. And it’s legal. 

Not a Felony. Next.


----------



## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> Ever made a bad shot and maimed a deer? Watched a tracking dog somebody turned loose latching onto a nearly dead buck?
> 
> How about some hog hunters shooting hogs in the gut and letting them run off to die? Taking pics of their kill with guts hanging half out.
> 
> ...


Still. All legal and not Felonies.

Next.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 12, 2020)

1982ace said:


> I’m not saying that you have not had any bad experiences with them. All I said was I never had problems with any.  probably because of the way I raised them. To each it’s own. I say you’re a idiot for having dachshunds held up to your face. I knew someone with a mean one.?


Nobody has ever been killed or maimed by one. They'll bite you. They won't kill your neighbors's daughter or grandma after being sweet and loveable for years. Thousands have by pitbulls.  It's not the way you raise a redbone coonhound that makes it go crazy when it smells a coon, or the way you raise an Australian shepherd that makes it want to herd livestock, or the way you raise a beagle that makes it want to run rabbits. And it ain't a short chain and a lack of human interaction that make pitbulls attack and kill people every day.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

Hunting, fishing and trapping is being compared to illegal dog fighting, gambling and drug operations..



That’s how you guys defend Vick..


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Feb 12, 2020)

1982ace said:


> I’m not saying that you have not had any bad experiences with them. All I said was I never had problems with any.  probably because of the way I raised them. To each it’s own. I say you’re a idiot for having dachshunds held up to your face. I knew someone with a mean one.?


66% of fatal dog attacks are committed by pit bulls. And that's out of 453 different breeds.......That says it all.


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## dirtnap (Feb 12, 2020)

Was what he did wrong? Absolutely. But if the worst thing we’ve ever done was broadcast all over the media for the world to see, how many of us wouldn’t be “garbage”?


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## Mexican Squealer (Feb 12, 2020)

I wouldn’t


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## 1982ace (Feb 12, 2020)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> 66% of fatal dog attacks are committed by pit bulls. And that's out of 453 different breeds.......That says it all.


So out of all those fatal attacks, it has nothing to do with how they were raised. I find that hard to believe. I’m not trying to talk anyone into getting one or I’m part of some pit bull rights group. I’m just saying what I experienced for myself. Not trying to argue.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 12, 2020)

My pitty is a mean one.. you better watch out! He also likes the boat.


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## Flash (Feb 12, 2020)

Has Slayer attended any cockfights, asking for a friend


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> Nope. And it’s legal.
> 
> Not a Felony. Next.



I don't give a rip if it's a felony or not ?


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> so... how many of you Vick sympathizers would want him married to your daughter???
> 
> 
> Crickets.............
> ...


Not me. Would you want Trump as a son in law ?


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## antharper (Feb 12, 2020)

Great info in here


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## mark-7mag (Feb 12, 2020)

antharper said:


> Great info in here


Ikr! A real think tank if you will


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Yeah I'll go with that.
> I just can't believe that someone's going to come on here and compare what sportsmen do with what Michael Vick did. Total 180ﾟ dichotomy if you ask me.


While I don’t agree with what Vick did I also can’t pass judgment on him. It’s completely legal to turn a pack of dogs loose to chew a hog up until you can get there to kill it with a knife or gun and in a lot of cases the hogs are killed and left laying. It’s also socially acceptable to kill a bait fish, cricket Or worm just to catch and release a fish. Think about the people buying live rats or rabbits to feed their pet snakes, I’m sure those animals don’t enjoy that. We have placed a high importance for pampering and taking care of dogs, myself included but outside of man made laws what makes them any more important than all the other animals?


----------



## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> Nope. And it’s legal.
> 
> Not a Felony.
> Im not a fan of Vick or defending him but what makes a dog more important than a bait fish? I know dog fighting is illegal but as far as torturing animals what’s the difference to be able to cast such judgement?  I’m sure we all enjoy something that is technically illegal to some extent


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

Flash said:


> Has Slayer attended any cockfights, asking for a friend



Tell your friend that Slayer’s momma raised him right and also taught him not to play with his food.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

mark-7mag said:


> Not me. Would you want Trump as a son in law ?


But as long as he played football and helped win games, he gets a free pass? Not happening.
Is it ok to hang dogs? Much less shove one's head into a 5 gallon bucket and drown it? 

As a son in law, sure, if there wasn't such an age difference. Vick is 39 and Trump is 73. Trump is not the complete waste of human flesh Michael Vick is.


----------



## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

Doghunter11 said:


> While I don’t agree with what Vick did I also can’t pass judgment on him. It’s completely legal to turn a pack of dogs loose to chew a hog up until you can get there to kill it with a knife or gun and in a lot of cases the hogs are killed and left laying. It’s also socially acceptable to kill a bait fish, cricket Or worm just to catch and release a fish. Think about the people buying live rats or rabbits to feed their pet snakes, I’m sure those animals don’t enjoy that. We have placed a high importance for pampering and taking care of dogs, myself included but outside of man made laws what makes them any more important than all the other animals?


Can't pass judgement my rear! You pass judgement on things every single day. Everyone does! You just choose "not to" in certain cases. Like defending Michael Piece Of Filth Vick. 

Anyone that defends that guy and compares what he did to what we do as Sportsman & land managers is well.. Too far gone to bring back to the side of logical. Breeding animals to fight to the death and throwing innocent animals in the cages to "train" other dogs.. 

I could see where some "real men" do that for fun. But hey, there's tons of sick people in this world. It's legal to marry your cousin in Alabama.


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## Hillbilly stalker (Feb 13, 2020)

Vick came thru our town and really upped the interest in dog fighting. He got the local thugs all motivated in the game. It got so bad that they started burglarizing the Animal Control Center and stealing every pit to fight and every dog they thought would be a good " bait" dog. Our county had to install an Alarm system over it. He may have went to jail  and paid his dues, but his actions affected a lot of people and introduced a lot of new players to the Frey. They still fight them every Sunday here in this county, you see treadmills, racks and swings in a lot of yards in town in plain sight.


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> Can't pass judgement my rear! You pass judgement on things every single day. Everyone does! You just choose "not to" in certain cases. Like defending Michael Piece Of Filth Vick.
> 
> Anyone that defends that guy and compares what he did to what we do as Sportsman & land managers is well.. Too far gone to bring back to the side of logical. Breeding animals to fight to the death and throwing innocent animals in the cages to "train" other dogs..
> 
> I could see where some "real men" do that for fun. But hey, there's tons of sick people in this world. It's legal to marry your cousin in Alabama.


Like I said it being Michael Vick has nothing to do with my opinion and I agree he should have went to jail but I won’t condemn him for life over that. I don’t view dog fighting as being as bad as selling drugs, theft, rape or murder of another human. My point was just because it was a dog people want him to
Spend life in jail and will hate him forever but in reality a dog is just an animal. Some forms of how we hunt and fish can be pretty cruel to animals if you look at all animals equal deer, hogs, fish, coons, coyotes and dogs. Do you really think putting 2 dogs in a cage and letting them fight until 1 is dead in 10 minutes is much worse than trapping a coyote in a leg trap and coming back 12-24 hours later to shoot it and that be completely legal?


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## killerv (Feb 13, 2020)

I wonder how many dogs have been shot by deer hunters because they chased a deer in front of them after much money and time spent getting ready for hunting season...I mean...atleast Vicks dogs had a "fightin chance" right...

sorry for the pun


----------



## oldguy (Feb 13, 2020)

Doghunter11 said:


> Like I said it being Michael Vick has nothing to do with my opinion and I agree he should have went to jail but I won’t condemn him for life over that. I don’t view dog fighting as being as bad as selling drugs, theft, rape or murder of another human. My point was just because it was a dog people want him to
> Spend life in jail and will hate him forever but in reality a dog is just an animal. Some forms of how we hunt and fish can be pretty cruel to animals if you look at all animals equal deer, hogs, fish, coons, coyotes and dogs. Do you really think putting 2 dogs in a cage and letting them fight until 1 is dead in 10 minutes is much worse than trapping a coyote in a leg trap and coming back 12-24 hours later to shoot it and that be completely legal?


Ain't nobody placing bets on the coyote and getting enjoyment out of watching it suffer, If you think there's ANY comparison between dog fighting and the legal use of foothold traps you are sadly mistaken! I recently posted about FOOT-HOLD traps being used to capture critters for research. Captured and released and in some cases recaptured. Don't believe me? Look it up. The coyote study in GA & SC going on right now they used trappers to catch the coyotes so they could radio collar 'em. Otters and bobcats were trapped in GA & other southern states to reintroduce them to places like Ohio. DOG FIGHTING AND TRAPPING ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!
The only thing I dislike more than an anti (hunting, trapping, fishing, gun rights) is an ignorant "sportsman"! Take the time to educate yourself.


----------



## oldguy (Feb 13, 2020)

I just read your post comparing folks buying rats and rabbits to feed snakes to dog fighting. What the heck do you think those snakes eat in the wild? I got a 20+ year old ball python was used for educational purposes (reptile programs). He eats rats and mice - it's natureal. Now I guess you gonna' come back and say that a buncha' gold toothed thugs fighting dogs for fun and $$$ is natural too. I'm with the Browning Slayer on this one - way yonder too far gone to bring back to logical!


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

oldguy said:


> I just read your post comparing folks buying rats and rabbits to feed snakes to dog fighting. What the heck do you think those snakes eat in the wild? I got a 20+ year old ball python was used for educational purposes (reptile programs). He eats rats and mice - it's natureal. Now I guess you gonna' come back and say that a buncha' gold toothed thugs fighting dogs for fun and $$$ is natural too. I'm with the Browning Slayer on this one - way yonder too far gone to bring back to logical!


Once again in no way do I think it’s ok to fight dogs you must have missed that point a couple times. But I also don’t see it as a big enough crime to spend 20 years in prison and be hated for life over either. As for the gold toothed thugs fighting dogs for fun being natural, I don’t see it much different than the good ole boy raised in the country fighting chickens. Not my idea of fun but there’s much worse they could be doing.


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## Waddams (Feb 13, 2020)

Had a thought come to mind - for hunters/fishermen/etc. that kill/trap/catch/etc. critters for the frying pan - I don't know a single one that gets a sadistic thrill or purposely tortures and enjoys inflicting extra pain on said critter. What Vick did had more sadistic enjoyment intent behind it. To me that's the difference, us on here don't enjoy seeing something suffer and we don't purposely try to make anything endure extra suffering as it expires. In fact, we make an effort to ensure a clean kill and quick death so said critters don't endure extra suffering. 

Vick and his cohorts, by contrast, didn't just kill the non-performing dogs. They sadistically ensured those dogs endured more suffering and pain. 

That's the big difference - Vick and his fellows were sadistic, we are not.

Regarding pitbulls - my nephew has one. A female, about 80-90 lbs. Dog is hard as a brick, but it is the gentlest creature I've ever run across. To relate a story, my parent's chihuahaa got made at the pit one day and cornered it in the backyard. Had it stuck up on this raised planter bed. The walls were too tall for the chihuahua to get up, so the pit was just standing up there, crying, while the chihuahua circled the bed like a shark. Said chihuahua was 4 lbs.

I'm sure somewhere in the pit's mind, it knew said chihuahua wasn't a big threat, but it went out of it's way to stay out of the fight and not hurt said chihuahua, instead begging for one it's humans to come and help it! I don't know about all pits, but I know that one in particular just had an extremely gentle personality and is actually a great dog to have around.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

killerv said:


> I mean...atleast Vicks dogs had a "fightin chance" right...
> 
> sorry for the pun


How is there a fightin chance when your head is shoved into a 5 gallon bucket of water while you are tied up?

And that's after you lose and about dead already..


----------



## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

Anyone that doesn't have a problem with dog fighting. You are part of the problem,.


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## transfixer (Feb 13, 2020)

Dog fighting and cock fighting is done for the sadistic enjoyment of those involved, as well as betting purposes,  deliberately putting animals in a situation where they will suffer pain and probable death for no other reason than the enjoyment of those watching, or making money off the event.   And then when an animal loses a fight and is badly hurt, instead of giving it medical attention , they are drowned or killed because they are of no further use to the owner ?   that is telling to the character of that person. 

   Huge difference in that and trapping a nuisance animal,  which are humanely dispatched as soon as encountered.   No hunter that I know of intentionally wounds an animal to watch it suffer,  no fisherman takes pleasure out of knowing he's causing pain to a baitfish,   

   There are numerous accounts of hunters, or fisherman rescuing animals that were trying to swim across a lake, or stranded on a frozen lake, and put themselves at risk trying to help the animal,   deer caught in barbed wire fences rescued and released by deer hunters,   bucks locked together that were separated by hunters and let go,  

  If hunters and fisherman were in the same category as Vick,  in all those instances they would have either watched the animals suffer their predicament, or would have killed them when they were at a disadvantage, 

    Its actually pretty sad that the difference has to be pointed out.    smh


----------



## ddavis1120 (Feb 13, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> But as long as he played football and helped win games, he gets a free pass?



What free pass?  The man paid his debt to society in Leavenworth Kansas.  He declared bankruptcy but ended up paying back all his creditors.  The time out of the game cost him more than most people will make in a lifetime.  Doesn't sound like a pass much less a free one.

You can condemn him, never forgive him, curse his family but to somehow insinuate that he got a free pass is disingenuous at best.  

And no I don't want my daughter to marry a guy with an alias like Ron Mexico ;-)!


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## oldguy (Feb 13, 2020)

I recently ran up a $700.00 vet bill for a pit bull somebody had dumped out and was nearly starved when I found him. Had to feed him for a week to gain his confidence. Turned out to be a loving playful dude. Animal control got wind of him being out there and me feeding him (some buzy body called). It was way out in the country and I knew the landowner. Wasn't hurting a thing. AC lady gave me a lecture on the dangers of pit bulls. I probably owned 'em longer than she's been alive. "Red" was declared by the vet to either have the worst case of heart worms he'd ever seen or cancer mastisized in his lungs nothing he could do. RIP 'ol Red dog.
If it'd been any other dog I'd probably handled it differently, but got a soft spot for pit bulls.


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

transfixer said:


> Dog fighting and cock fighting is done for the sadistic enjoyment of those involved, as well as betting purposes,  deliberately putting animals in a situation where they will suffer pain and probable death for no other reason than the enjoyment of those watching, or making money off the event.   And then when an animal loses a fight and is badly hurt, instead of giving it medical attention , they are drowned or killed because they are of no further use to the owner ?   that is telling to the character of that person.
> 
> Huge difference in that and trapping a nuisance animal,  which are humanely dispatched as soon as encountered.   No hunter that I know of intentionally wounds an animal to watch it suffer,  no fisherman takes pleasure out of knowing he's causing pain to a baitfish,
> 
> ...


I agree with pretty much all of that. I think most of what I said has been taken differently then how it was intended. It’s never ok to try to inflict as much pain and suffering as you can on an animal I was just pointing out how people view hurting a dog so differently from hurting any other animal. It’s a common practice to catch a squirrel or coon in a cage to train a pup. Most people even shoot them out and let the dog finish them off yet if the county marshal thinks your dogs food or water bowl is to dirty you can receive a citation. There’s no doubt I think more highly of my dogs than I do most people but I think the expected care needed for a dog now days is getting out of control (not talking about how Vick treated them).  Let the wrong  person figure out your hunting dog slept outside in a covered dog house in a 35 degree rain and they look at you like you just slapped their kid


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## transfixer (Feb 13, 2020)

Doghunter11 said:


> I agree with pretty much all of that. I think most of what I said has been taken differently then how it was intended. It’s never ok to try to inflict as much pain and suffering as you can on an animal I was just pointing out how people view hurting a dog so differently from hurting any other animal. It’s a common practice to catch a squirrel or coon in a cage to train a pup. Most people even shoot them out and let the dog finish them off yet if the county marshal thinks your dogs food or water bowl is to dirty you can receive a citation. There’s no doubt I think more highly of my dogs than I do most people but I think the expected care needed for a dog now days is getting out of control (not talking about how Vick treated them).  Let the wrong  person figure out your hunting dog slept outside in a covered dog house in a 35 degree rain and they look at you like you just slapped their kid



 That is because dogs,, and cats,,  have been domesticated and in most cases have become part of peoples family,  so they tend to be viewed differently than a wild animal,  but some people and organizations carry treatment of animals to the extreme,  Peta, HSUS, and others,   in my view animals were put here for our use,  either for food, service, or companionship,   its something that evokes a lot of different emotions in different people.


----------



## joepuppy (Feb 13, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> If you trust one, you are an absolute idiot. They can be really sweet for years. Then they flip out for no reason. You ever seen a three-year-old girl ripped apart by one of those loveable creatures that was such a nice dog for years? You ever had to kill one that was attacking you for no reason? It's not the owner, it's the dog. There may be some that are ok, but I will never trust one. They may be sweet to you and kill your neighbor, or they may turn on you, too. I've seen way too much evidence in person not to. You can hate me all you want to. There's a reason why pitbulls account for the vast, vast majority of fatal dog attacks and dog maimings, even though they are a very low percentage of dogs owned in the US. The same reason blueticks tree coons and beagles run rabbits. Genetics. Pitbulls kill and maim people, as I've seen myself way too many times. Keep your head in the sand and repeat the koolaid propaganda. Dogs ain't dogs. Each breed was developed for a specific purpose. You may take each dog on a dog to dog basis, but tell me how many of those beagles or Brittany Spaniels kill the neighbor's kid. It happens every single day with a pitbull.
> 
> Any breed of dog can bite you. Very few breeds don't stop until you're dead when they decide to bite you. One of them statistically, as a matter of fact.



I have. Only it was my 7 yr. old niece. wasn't a pit bull, it was a rottweiler. I've shyed away from most large breed dogs at my house since. Toting a small casket down the aisle will forever change your outlook.


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## dirtnap (Feb 13, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I absolutely love dogs with all my heart. I absolutely hate pitbulls with a black passion.


Another one is a chow. When I was a kid they were everywhere and then I guess people started figuring out they were crazy as a sprayed roach. I don’t know how many times I heard of them attacking their owners. I haven’t seen one now in probably 25 years


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 13, 2020)

dirtnap said:


> Another one is a chow. When I was a kid they were everywhere and then I guess people started figuring out they were crazy as a sprayed roach. I don’t know how many times I heard of them attacking their owners. I haven’t seen one now in probably 25 years


Yeah, they can be nasty, and they're big enough to be dangerous. In my experience, the black chows are usually pretty friendly, but the red ones are usually mean as the devil.


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 13, 2020)

joepuppy said:


> I have. Only it was my 7 yr. old niece. wasn't a pit bull, it was a rottweiler. I've shyed away from most large breed dogs at my house since. Toting a small casket down the aisle will forever change your outlook.


That is the breed responsible for most of the folks killed by dogs that pitbulls didn't get.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 13, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> so... how many of you Vick sympathizers would want him married to your daughter???
> 
> 
> Crickets.............
> ...



I wouldn't want Vick married to my daughter but it has nothing to do with a few mutts. If he were, I wouldn't hold what he did to a few dogs against him, as I've killed animals too.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 13, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> I wouldn't want Vick married to my daughter but it has nothing to do with a few mutts. If he were, I wouldn't hold what he did to a few dogs against him, as I've killed animals too.


How many of those animals have you lit on fire? Beaten to death? Made bets with your buddy on how long it could suffer before it dies? 

I’ve killed just about every animal that walks or swims in the south and many other species from other states.

I’ve never “intentionally” tortured any of them. Most sane human beings wouldn’t.


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## elfiii (Feb 13, 2020)

Y'all 'bout got all this figured out yet?


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## treemanjohn (Feb 13, 2020)

What's the verdict?


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 13, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> What's the verdict?


It’s trumps fault!!!


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## treemanjohn (Feb 13, 2020)

Doghunter11 said:


> It’s trumps fault!!!


 I can see that. Orange man bad

 Did anyone mention running hogs with pit bulls and other dogs? I would think a dog would much prefer to be laying on the sofa eating popcorn then running through a mudhole getting torn to pieces


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## Big7 (Feb 13, 2020)

spurrs and racks said:


> Wow........some of you have a long way to go.



Indeed !! My thoughts EXACTLY !!!

That dumb move by Vick was a product of being from "the hood". And an environment that he could not control.

Kids from "the hood" have a lot to overcome, especially when a $110 million contract is thrown into that mix. Those kids are not equipped to handle that.

I think he paid his dues to society. Over paid. Lot of folk get less time for doing far worse than Vick did.

With all his social work and so forth he is redeemed in my eyes.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 13, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> How many of those animals have you lit on fire? Beaten to death? Made bets with your buddy on how long it could suffer before it dies?
> 
> I’ve killed just about every animal that walks or swims in the south and many other species from other states.
> 
> I’ve never “intentionally” tortured any of them. Most sane human beings wouldn’t.



I'm pretty sure it makes no never mind to the animal that you didn't intend to torture it.?


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 13, 2020)

elfiii said:


> Y'all 'bout got all this figured out yet?



We're working on it Elfiii.


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## elfiii (Feb 13, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> We're working on it Elfiii.



I'll check back in a week or so and see what y'all came up with. Is a week enough time or do y'all need more?


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 13, 2020)

elfiii said:


> I'll check back in a week or so and see what y'all came up with. Is a week enough time or do y'all need more?



???

Check back just before turkey season.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 14, 2020)

If my Pitbull bites you.. You deserve it.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 14, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> Dogs, deer, fish, cows, hogs, horses, chickens are all animals. If you've ever killed or maimed any of em then you've got something in common with Ol Vick





SpotandStalk said:


> Ever made a bad shot and maimed a deer? Watched a tracking dog somebody turned loose latching onto a nearly dead buck?
> 
> How about some hog hunters shooting hogs in the gut and letting them run off to die? Taking pics of their kill with guts hanging half out.
> 
> ...





SpotandStalk said:


> So putting a baitfish on a hook, then keeping him on a string until something eats him alive isnt torture?





SpotandStalk said:


> I wouldn't want Vick married to my daughter but it has nothing to do with a few mutts. If he were, I wouldn't hold what he did to a few dogs against him, as I've killed animals too.



 So did you torture them like a sportsman?
 Or torture them like Vick?
 Same thing? Or different?


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 14, 2020)

SpotandStalk said:


> Dogs, deer, fish, cows, hogs, horses, chickens are all animals. If you've ever killed or maimed any of em then you've got something in common with Ol Vick




I've got nothing in common with that piece of trash. If I could get him alone for about an hour I could say I had something in common with him. Cause I sure would let some aggressive dogs have their way with him.


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## Sixes (Feb 14, 2020)

This 30/30 is interesting.


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## mark-7mag (Feb 14, 2020)

Lotsa good insight in here


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## Mr Bya Lungshot (Feb 14, 2020)

killerv said:


> Huh? He did is time and one of the few I feel have been really remorseful since. He's doing well and came out of this a better person.





Browning Slayer said:


> Oh... Boo... hoo.... hooo.....
> 
> Vick should still be in jail. He's a piece of garbage that ran a multi state dog killing factory. He was the kingpin of the operation.





mark-7mag said:


> After seeing where and how he grew up I can see how someone could get caught up in that sort of thing. I believe that all he ever wanted was to get as many friends and family out of the projects which he did. Unfortunately a few were  bad. He went to prison and did his time and is very remorseful. I can’t expect God to forgive me for things I’ve done if I cant forgive Mike Vick. In the end, no humans were harmed, only dogs. And yes, I have dogs





TinKnocker said:


> I believe the race card was played because he got a sentence FOUR TIMES any previous violations.
> 
> So he got 4x the jail sentence as anyone in history, but that wasn't enough?





treemanjohn said:


> I thought it was a great show. It's always nice to see both sides. He could have very well been the best quarterback in NFL history if he only would have studied, worked harder, and get his mind right. Dude to could accurately throw a football out of sight and run like a deer.
> 
> He had an incredible support system and turned his back on it. Dan Reeves and Arthur blank we're his biggest fans. What could have been





Whitefeather said:


> Ditto. What a wasted talent. After what he did to the Falcons, I still don’t get why they keep bringing him back.





Flash said:


> ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.





elfiii said:


> Forgiveness is different from not forgetting.





mark-7mag said:


> Lotsa good insight in here


He coulda won the SuperBowl.
Just saying.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 14, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> I've got nothing in common with that piece of trash. If I could get him alone for about an hour I could say I had something in common with him. Cause I sure would let some aggressive dogs have their way with him.



Sure you do.

Vick has already shown he isn't scared of an aggressive dog


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## Buckman18 (Feb 16, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> If my Pitbull bites you.. You deserve it.



If your pitbull bites me, it will die - execution style.


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## Danuwoa (Feb 16, 2020)

I don’t care what anybody says, Spotty.  You’re right about this.  Before any of you wannabe tough guys start in on me, don’t waste the key strokes.  I don’t care what you think and I have good reason to feel ok about my own manliness so your outrage would be put to better use elsewhere.  As hunters and fishermen we do some pretty brutal things to animals on a regular basis and they suffer at least some of the time.  Lotta cherry picking going on in here and a lot of folks lying to themselves.  I’m not going to stop hunting or fishing and agree that Vick deserved what he got.  But let’s not get on our high horse about inflicting pain and suffering on animals because all of us do it.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 16, 2020)

I want waste many keystrokes. If I, as a sportsman, am going to be compared to Michael Vick's purposeless and purposeful infliction of pain and suffering on animals, I just don't know what to say.


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## Danuwoa (Feb 16, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> I want waste many keystrokes. If I, as a sportsman, am going to be compared to Michael Vick's purposeless and purposeful infliction of pain and suffering on animals, I just don't know what to say.


Then don’t say anything.  And there was no “comparison” beyond stating the simple fact that as hunters and fisherman we hurt and kill animals all the time so there is no need to act like we don’t.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 16, 2020)

So, if I purposely gut shot a deer so I could then walk up to it and beat it to death with a baseball bat,  I wouldn't be any further from the essence of hunting and fishing than Michael Vick was?
 There is a difference. If you can't see it, well...
 I'll still defend my actions as way more noble than his.
 Yes I know it's violent and deadly, especially for the individual animal. But sportsmen do not purposely inflict the torture and cruelty that Vick showed.
 If you want to lump all sportsmen in the same category as Michael Vick, are you proud to be one?


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## Danuwoa (Feb 16, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> So, if I purposely gut shot a deer so I could then walk up to it and beat it to death with a baseball bat,  I wouldn't be any further from the essence of hunting and fishing than Michael Vick was?
> There is a difference. If you can't see it, well...
> I'll still defend my actions as way more noble than his.
> Yes I know it's violent and deadly, especially for the individual animal. But sportsmen do not purposely inflict the torture and cruelty that Vick showed.
> If you want to lump all sportsmen in the same category as Michael Vick, are you proud to be one?


Whoa cowboy.  I guess you missed the part about me being a hunter and fisherman too.  And nobody said you were the same as Vick.  I said we all inflict pain on them and kill them and there is some self righteousness going on here is what I said.  If that ain’t you then don’t get your hackles up.?


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 16, 2020)

The gist I got from responses in this thread was that the 'torture' we inflict from hunting and fishing is on the level of Michael Vick's.
 We all have something in common with him.


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## Doghunter11 (Feb 16, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> The gist I got from responses in this thread was that the 'torture' we inflict from hunting and fishing is on the level of Michael Vick's.
> We all have something in common with him.


I think you and a lot of other people are reading more then what has been posted. I dont think anyone here thinks what Vick did was acceptable just stating that for any sportsman who hunts or fishes you definitely inflict a lot of pain on animals for your pleasure whether you want them to suffer or not. I hunt and fish and I’m guilty, I’ve made bad shots and have had fish swallow a hook and I know that animal suffered a great deal before they died.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 16, 2020)

Doghunter11 said:


> I think you and a lot of other people are reading more then what has been posted. I dont think anyone here thinks what Vick did was acceptable just stating that for any sportsman who hunts or fishes you definitely inflict a lot of pain on animals for your pleasure whether you want them to suffer or not. I hunt and fish and I’m guilty, I’ve made bad shots and have had fish swallow a hook and I know that animal suffered a great deal before they died.



 Agreed, but I will stand and defend until I die the difference between what sportsmen do and what Michael Vick did.


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## 1eyefishing (Feb 16, 2020)

... And if you note carefully, the posted I reacted to was edited about 5 minutes after I reacted to it. I should have quoted it, even I can't remember what it said originally...


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 17, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> If your pitbull bites me, it will die - execution style.


If he bites you, you’re on my property and I don’t think you’ll get that chance to draw that weapon.

Good try though!


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## TinKnocker (Feb 17, 2020)

I have heard the 30-4-30 is pretty good. Need to find time to watch it.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 17, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> I don’t care what anybody says, Spotty.  You’re right about this.  Before any of you wannabe tough guys start in on me, don’t waste the key strokes.  I don’t care what you think and I have good reason to feel ok about my own manliness so your outrage would be put to better use elsewhere.  As hunters and fishermen we do some pretty brutal things to animals on a regular basis and they suffer at least some of the time.  Lotta cherry picking going on in here and a lot of folks lying to themselves.  I’m not going to stop hunting or fishing and agree that Vick deserved what he got.  But let’s not get on our high horse about inflicting pain and suffering on animals because all of us do it.


Sorry Brad, I'll never get on board with ^that^ way of thinking.

Vick hung dogs with para-cord over a 2x4 nailed to a tree. He stuck their heads in buckets of water and killed them. These were just a couple ways he killed these dogs. That's just what he got caught for. How bad were the other things that piece of garbage did for "fun"..

Comparing him to an outdoorsman is flat out retarded.

That would be like comparing me to Jameis Winston cause we both get crab legs from Publix as I'm in the check out line and he's running for the door while carrying a gun.

And that's just from a legality standpoint.. We don't even have to get into the moral side of it.

Michael Vick is a parasite. Someone that did a ton of bad things that other people had to clean up. If you go around creating messes for others to clean up. You are a parasite. This world belongs to all of us and we all live in it. Just imagine if this world was full of Michael Vicks and imagine a world filled with Outdoorsman. Which world would you want to live in?

And we can't even post the pictures in here of his victims. It would go against the rules. See the difference?


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 17, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> ... And if you note carefully, the posted I reacted to was edited about 5 minutes after I reacted to it. I should have quoted it, even I can't remember what it said originally...



If you're referring to the 1st post I made I surely didn't edit anything out to make you look foolish for making your post.


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## Danuwoa (Feb 17, 2020)

Browning Slayer said:


> Sorry Brad, I'll never get on board with ^that^ way of thinking.
> 
> Vick hung dogs with para-cord over a 2x4 nailed to a tree. He stuck their heads in buckets of water and killed them. These were just a couple ways he killed these dogs. That's just what he got caught for. How bad were the other things that piece of garbage did for "fun"..
> 
> ...


 
I don’t disagree with anything you said about the things that Vick did.  It was heinous.  I don’t think anybody is saying hunting is exactly the same.  What I’m saying is we are brutal toward animals for sport.  To me it’s hypocritical for us to talk too loudly about it.  I u sweat and that intent matters.  I guess it was the high horse tone of some of the posts that I had issue with.


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## SpotandStalk (Feb 17, 2020)

I won't apologize for being a hunter but I also won't throw Vick under the bus for killing an animal.


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## James12 (Feb 17, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> I don’t disagree with anything you said about the things that Vick did.  It was heinous.  I don’t think anybody is saying hunting is exactly the same.  What I’m saying is we are brutal toward animals for sport.  To me it’s hypocritical for us to talk too loudly about it.  I u sweat and that intent matters.  I guess it was the high horse tone of some of the posts that I had issue with.



Good points.  I didn’t think anyone got high-horse though.  Go Noles buddy.


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## TinKnocker (Feb 18, 2020)

Watched Part 1 last night and really enjoyed it. Will definitely watch Part 2.


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