# New heaven and earth



## mtnwoman (Aug 23, 2011)

So why is it that the 'green folk' believe that the world is 6 trillion years old, and can't overcome that the world isn't going to 'die' in probably the 40 yrs they have been on earth. OH the sky is falling...lol....sheesh....


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## bullethead (Aug 24, 2011)

6 trillion, 14 billion, or 10,000.......who is right?


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## JFS (Aug 24, 2011)

Seems prudent to take care of the place we live.  I find it ironic that people on an outdoor forum wouldn't get that.


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## bullethead (Aug 24, 2011)

JFS said:


> Seems prudent to take care of the place we live.  I find it ironic that people on an outdoor forum wouldn't get that.



Yep if we each live to be a healthy 100yrs old, it is not a lot of time so why not take care of our planet as best we can?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 24, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> So why is it that the 'green folk' believe that the world is 6 trillion years old, and can't overcome that the world isn't going to 'die' in probably the 40 yrs they have been on earth. OH the sky is falling...lol....sheesh....



The world may not die in the next 40 years, but the world as we know it may die in the next 40 years. Who knows. If it does, that might or might not be due to us not doing what we can to take care of it.


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## bzb (Aug 24, 2011)

I think there's a huge difference between conservationists and environmentalists. The latter being, specifically, anti-capitalists.

A conservationist would catch and release a huge bass and make sure his bottles stay in the boat and are thrown away.  An environmentalist would ban you from being able to fish and you'd be required by law to buy government-controlled, farm raised, sustainable, totally blah tilapia if you want to catch something.  And you'd have to recycle those bottles, or fear the penalty of death.

And you're seriously asking why a bunch of people relying on bad science and recycled crises don't understand their hypocrisy?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

I am not sure how old this place is. Written records go back about 10,000 years give or take.

I think the "global warming" we are experiencing is the tale end of an ice age that would occur whether or not we were here.

I am pretty sure we have already dumped on this planet enough to ruin it. Our main offense is that we have contaminated the water. From plastics to semi-volitale organic compounds, polyaromatic hydrocarbons and heavy metals (not too mention radiation), we have not done ourselves any favors.

The earth will survive, but I don't think we will. It might take a 1000 more years, but I am pretty sure we are hosed.


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## mtnwoman (Aug 26, 2011)

I didn't mean that we shouldn't take care of the earth. Of course we should. Recycle, etc. Don't kill animals unless you plan to eat them. 

I'm just saying the same people that say the earth is a trillion years old, have no faith that the earth has been at least for some period, self healing or we wouldn't be here today. 

I don't think we should make/use anything disposable.

Edited to add....biodegradeable toilet paper, that's all we get..lol


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

We live in a disposal age. I saw a documentary on plastics. We buy a water bottle that we will use for 30 mins to an hour, and the packaging (plastic) will never, never, never go away. It does photo degrade, but that just breaks it up into smaller bits. Try not to use anything plastic.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

It will never go away? Would it have gone away if we didn't make it in to a bottle? Just recycle that thing. I'm happy to say the water I drink at work has the bottles thrown in to the recycle cans. And I recycle my water bottles at home by spitting in them several times before I throw them away


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## Ronnie T (Aug 26, 2011)

Out west, I hear they're working on turning our toilet water into drinking water.
Drink up folks.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

You know that happens all over........ right??


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> It will never go away? Would it have gone away if we didn't make it in to a bottle? Just recycle that thing. I'm happy to say the water I drink at work has the bottles thrown in to the recycle cans. And I recycle my water bottles at home by spitting in them several times before I throw them away



Yes it never goes away. There are centralized vortexes in all of the worlds oceans where the water swirls around. Scientists conduct plankton tows regularly in these areas. They capture more plastic particles than plankton.

On the midway atoll in the pacific, there is a huge colony of sea birds that nest there. Whenever they (resident biologists) find a dead one, they conduct an autopsy, the dead birds' stomachs are full of plastic.

Most of our recyclable plastics are shipped to China where they glean the 10% of profitable recyclables, and throw the rest in a landfill. Our recycled computers and electronics suffer a similar fate, shipped to China where they strip out the copper in the wires and throw the rest in a ditch.

In Europe they are better at this then us. You can see how many times a bottle is recycled (refilled and reused) on the label. They average 30 or 40 reuses.

Plastic is a petroleum product. So not only are we creating a product that does not ever degrade, we are using petroleum resources to do it.

Those thin plastic shopping bags you get at every store you go to, petroleum.

The reusable shopping bags they sell are made in China. How much gas does it take to get a $2 shopping bag to the US from China? How is that "sustainable"?

The whole "green" movement is a poltical aspirin to make us feel better about how we destroy our planet.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> Out west, I hear they're working on turning our toilet water into drinking water.
> Drink up folks.



Just had me some toilet water ice cubes.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

I know it never degrades.. I was just saying the stuff that we made it out of would have stayed around too..


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I know it never degrades.. I was just saying the stuff that we made it out of would have stayed around too..



Could have been gas in your tank.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Just had me some toilet water ice cubes.



Ah... so he was joking... phew...


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Ah... so he was joking... phew...



I make a nice toilet merlot too.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 26, 2011)

Toilet diet coke with a little distilled toilet..


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## Asath (Aug 30, 2011)

I wouldn't worry much over the 'greens' if they would just stop for a second and think about the scale of things.  This planet is freaking huge, and 6.4 or 6.5 billion little critters called humans barely occupy enough of the surface area to even be an annoyance.

Our deepest mines and oil wells are akin to an ant colony under a rock in the backyard, and a single volcanic eruption spews more ‘pollution’ than all of humanity has been able to come up with, cumulatively, since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.  You think that a plastic bottle will bother the planet?  You think (believe) that a plastic bottle will exist ‘forever’ just because someone with an odd political agenda told you so?  

The truth, unfortunately, is humbling, and we are (more unfortunately)  far from humble critters.  

Yeah, we are able to synthesize plastics out of the stuff we have laying around.  And yeah, those plastics are pretty durable, and will easily be around after we have lost our use for them, as well as our lives.  And yeah, again, some of the other critters are dumb enough not to realize that plastic isn’t food, so they eat it anyway, and die.  But . . . 

Everything we are able to make, from plastics to jet aircraft, and from computers to Jello, is simply a recombination of elements that were already here to begin with.  We jigger around with stuff we got out of the ground, and suddenly – PRESTO! – we have stainless steel, refined copper, glass, gasoline, and situation comedies.  Nobody ever said that progress would be painless . . .

But to get all this even further into perspective you have to get above it a little, like Google Earth satellite photos.  A tree, viewed from space, is hardly even a weed compared to the size of the planet it grows on.  It isn’t that trees are particularly large – it is that we are particularly small.  Egos notwithstanding.

EVERYTHING is biodegradable, because EVERYTHING came from here to begin with.  We didn’t invent any new elements – we just monkeyed around with what was already here.  The planet couldn’t care a bit.  There isn’t a thing we could possibly come up with that the planet won’t eventually break down, wear down, and reclaim.  Nothing.  Including us.  I’m sorry if that truth disturbs the control-freak political agendas of the scare-mongers, but the new ‘Environmentalism’ has become a religion (meaning that it is immune to facts), and as such has moved from a quaint little ‘feel-good’ movement to the category of frightening mind-control politics.

Ask your favorite Environmentalist how come five of the top twenty EPA Super-Fund clean-up sites are recycling plants.  Ask them how come a ‘recycled’ product, if it is so much better, costs four times as much as making the product from scratch, and comes to market with less than half the quality.  When they start the doom and gloom talk about our scarce and overflowing landfills, ask if they’ve driven through New Mexico lately. And when they start going on about our precious and dwindling fresh water supplies, ask them if they know where all the ‘wasted’ water goes.

I’m with the OP – sheesh.  A little bit of propaganda, uninformed by actual facts, is a very dangerous thing.


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## mtnwoman (Aug 30, 2011)

Asath said:


> I wouldn't worry much over the 'greens' if they would just stop for a second and think about the scale of things.  This planet is freaking huge, and 6.4 or 6.5 billion little critters called humans barely occupy enough of the surface area to even be an annoyance.
> 
> Our deepest mines and oil wells are akin to an ant colony under a rock in the backyard, and a single volcanic eruption spews more ‘pollution’ than all of humanity has been able to come up with, cumulatively, since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.  You think that a plastic bottle will bother the planet?  You think (believe) that a plastic bottle will exist ‘forever’ just because someone with an odd political agenda told you so?
> 
> ...



You said that so much better than I.
Thanks for your post!


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## JFS (Aug 30, 2011)

I don't think it is too much to ask you not spew untreated sewage into the rivers where I like to fish and get drinking water.  Or at least keep your PCB discharge to a minimum.     Ever heard that song "Way Down Yonder on the Cuyahoga"?  No?


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## ambush80 (Aug 30, 2011)

Asath said:


> I wouldn't worry much over the 'greens' if they would just stop for a second and think about the scale of things.  This planet is freaking huge, and 6.4 or 6.5 billion little critters called humans barely occupy enough of the surface area to even be an annoyance.
> 
> Our deepest mines and oil wells are akin to an ant colony under a rock in the backyard, and a single volcanic eruption spews more ‘pollution’ than all of humanity has been able to come up with, cumulatively, since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.  You think that a plastic bottle will bother the planet?  You think (believe) that a plastic bottle will exist ‘forever’ just because someone with an odd political agenda told you so?
> 
> ...



Do I have your blessing to dump this 5 quarts of used motor oil into the sewer?


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## stringmusic (Aug 30, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Do I have your blessing to dump this 5 quarts of used motor oil into the sewer?



Your good on that Ambush, just don't let these guys catch you doin' it!!

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## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2011)

JFS said:


> I don't think it is too much to ask you not spew untreated sewage into the rivers where I like to fish and get drinking water.  Or at least keep your PCB discharge to a minimum.     Ever heard that song "Way Down Yonder on the Cuyahoga"?  No?



I used to live there. It has been cleaned up considerably. Of course it burned for 3 days and nights.


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## ted_BSR (Sep 1, 2011)

Asath said:


> I wouldn't worry much over the 'greens' if they would just stop for a second and think about the scale of things.  This planet is freaking huge, and 6.4 or 6.5 billion little critters called humans barely occupy enough of the surface area to even be an annoyance.
> 
> Our deepest mines and oil wells are akin to an ant colony under a rock in the backyard, and a single volcanic eruption spews more ‘pollution’ than all of humanity has been able to come up with, cumulatively, since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.  You think that a plastic bottle will bother the planet?  You think (believe) that a plastic bottle will exist ‘forever’ just because someone with an odd political agenda told you so?
> 
> ...



In RED above is not true. We have altered the natural building blocks on a molecular level. And if stuff does biodegrade, ask yourselves what it turns into. PCE degrades to TCE, which degrades to DCE and then to VC which eats your face off. (this stuff occurs in the groundwater wherever there is a dry cleaner)

But, it isn't just the manmade stuff we have to worry about. Mercury is a naturally occuring element. But when we pile it up and release into the water, the water is wasted, as well as the sediment, bugs (macroinvertebrates) fish, turtles, birds, fur bearing mammels and eventually us. The FIRST superfund site is a mercury site. Do you know why the Mad Hatter was mad? (mercury)

I work to clean this stuff up everyday, so don't assume that I am uninformed.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 1, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Do I have your blessing to dump this 5 quarts of used motor oil into the sewer?



You could help someone out and pour it on a dusty road, that way we can save on rocks.


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## Bottle Hunter (Sep 2, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> You could help someone out and pour it on a dusty road, that way we can save on rocks.



 That takes to long to get in the water system. I just dump it in the creek. 

Don't hurt nothing, there aint no more fish, turtles or ducks in it anymore, besides it makes a purdy sheen across the water.

 As far as the people down stream who use the  river water........drill a well.

 As far as  the legalities of it, I don't worry cause they'll never catch me. The lies they tell to try to make me stop.....like one gallon of oil can contaminate 1,000,000 gals. of water. Again I don't care I drink iced tea and beer........water never............might have oil in it.


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## Six million dollar ham (Sep 2, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> So why is it that the 'green folk' believe that the world is 6 trillion years old, and can't overcome that the world isn't going to 'die' in probably the 40 yrs they have been on earth. OH the sky is falling...lol....sheesh....



What?


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## vowell462 (Sep 2, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> What?



asking the same thing.... huh?


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## ted_BSR (Sep 11, 2011)

Just a question for you fellas. Six and Vowell, do you consider your selves to be "GREEN"?


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