# Would you homeschool or send your children to private schools?



## StriperAddict (Jan 2, 2009)

IF you could afford to...  Would you homeschool or send your children to private schools?

Here is an interesting article on the subject.  I suppose this could have gone to the political forum, but I thought I'd run it here and see what bytes may come. 
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Christians called to mass exodus from public schools Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 1/2/2009 8:00:00 AM
http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var addthis_pub = 'onenewsnow';</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://s9.addthis.com/js/widget.php?v=10" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT> 

<STORYLEAD>
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Critics of America's public school system have launched a new effort highlighting the need for Christians to exit the system.</STORYLEAD>


<STORYBODY>The initiative -- dubbed The Call to Dunkirk (_video link_) -- was launched by Dr. Bruce Shortt, author of _The Harsh Truth About Public Schools_; Rev. Voddie Baucham, author of _Family Driven Faith: Doing What It Takes to Raise Sons and Daughters Who Walk with God_; and the founder and director of the Exodus Mandate Project, retired U.S. Army Chaplain Lt. Col. E. Ray Moore.

Moore explains the proposal. "The Call to Dunkirk is a special emergency effort to try to get other ministries, churches, pastors, and the major Christian right and pro-family movement to join with us and the other K-12 home-school ministries in rescuing the children from the public schools during the year 2009," he says.

_Story continues below ..._​
<HR>*What's the primary reason most Christian parents*
*send their children to secular public schools*
*instead of opting for private or home schooling?*
*Vote in our poll*​
<HR> 
Although Christians have fought other aspects of the culture war such as homosexual "marriage," Moore contends they are losing the fight when it comes to the education of their children.




"The real target of the liberals and the left has always been the children. And we can see in California where the conservatives won Proposition 8 -- the vote [was] 52 to 48 [percent] -- but...when Proposition 22 was voted on [in March 2000], they had a 61-percent margin of victory. So the culture is turning against Christianity and against the pro-family movement primarily because we've allowed our children to be educated in their schools," he adds. "They're converting our children; we're not converting them."

The Call to Dunkirk gets its name from the historical WWII event when the Allied forces of England and France were run out of Europe, but ordinary citizens rallied to their aid and used their own boats to help more than 300,000 soldiers escape safely in order to return again on D-Day.

___________________________________

Poll to follow...


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## farmasis (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't understand why they can't be in public schools. I can afford either, but my children go to public school. I will teach them about faith. They can teach them math. And when issues come up like evolution, we will talk about it.

If Christians remove ourselves from the world, who will proclaim the name of Christ to them?

We are to be in the world, but not of the world. We are to associate with sinners. Jesus was the example of that. He didn't pull his disciples away, he equipped them.

Folks like DD will have a field day with sheltered children, and when their faith is tested-- how will they respond?


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## tuffdawg (Jan 2, 2009)

farmasis said:


> I don't understand why they can't be in public schools. I can afford either, but my children go to public school. I will teach them about faith. They can teach them math. And when issues come up like evolution, we will talk about it.
> 
> If Christians remove ourselves from the world, who will proclaim the name of Christ to them?
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 2, 2009)

farmasis said:


> I don't understand why they can't be in public schools. I can afford either, but my children go to public school. I will teach them about faith. They can teach them math. And when issues come up like evolution, we will talk about it.
> 
> If Christians remove ourselves from the world, who will proclaim the name of Christ to them?
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you are saying, and I'd like to think that most Christian families guard thier kids and bring them up in "the fear and nurture of the Lord, but it seems the "indocturnation" of public school kids to all sorts of liberal and even spiritual hogwash is getting a foothold today.   I'm sorry, but I don't see the majority of youth being able to stand against the peer pressure, etc.  And I also don't buy into the idea that the home-schooled kids are "over-sheltered" from society.  The ones I know (yes, there are exceptions) are exemplrary >sp?< in academics as well as social situations.  And to top it off, the Christian kids raised this way are as an effective witness as those who are strong enough to stand in thier faith in these public schools.

I guess this could lead to the question, what can parents do to insure a good balanced upbringing in either case?

BTW, in any case, yes, it's a matter of being "IN the world, but not OF the world."


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## Ronnie T (Jan 2, 2009)

Since I live where I do, I would send to public school.
If I lived in California or NY City, I'd probably homeschool.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 2, 2009)

farmasis said:


> Folks like DD will have a field day with sheltered children, and when their faith is tested-- how will they respond?



Like rangerdave and RonnieT?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 3, 2009)

To me it would depend on the child. Homeschooling is great and I'd do that, if I had a child.

I see a lot of good children at church who have been homeschooled. My brother had 8....eeeeeeeeeeeeek...yes 8 children. They are all homeschooled and very soft spoken bright children. It amazes me. But their mother is quiet and soft spoken and sweet, so that's the only role model they are around.

eta
Oh by the way they are very easy going, they jump, run and play just like all the other kids, including bouncing off the walls sometimes. They are mannerly and kind to other children they play with and easy to talk to and socialize with....2 boys 6 little girls, cute as little buttons.


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## Big7 (Jan 3, 2009)

I went to Catholic grade school.
St. Joseph's in Athens, Ga.
By high school my parents just didn't have the money.
I have two sisters that went to public school that turned out fine. 
They were much better behaved than me.
I NEEDED the Nuns to keep me tight.
That was a while back though.

I live in Rockdale County, if I had kids of my own
I would do whatever, sell beer cans, firewood- 
rob banks  to keep mine out of the public gooberment cess pools! YUK. To much dope, knuckleheads and
gangsters. Used to be one of the better County School Systems in Georgia. Then the invasion of the "cans"
PM me if you want to know what that means. 

So I voted yes.

I'm not so sure about home schooling though.
The two or three families that I know that did and do it still
have very retracted children. Can't handle people real well.
You really have to get to know them to find out that they are great kids - smart too...

If you do home school and do it right I don't have a major problem with it. Just what I mentioned above.

If it works for you and your kids... GO FOR IT!


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## Banjo (Jan 3, 2009)

Well...I think you know where we stand... We homeschool. 



> I'm not so sure about home schooling though.
> The two or three families that I know that did and do it still
> have very retracted children. Can't handle people real well.



You should meet mine...


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 3, 2009)

I voted no because to date I haven't.I too could probably afford either but am happy with the results of my oldest two.They have remained committed to God and his Church throughout thier lives so far.They are now in thier twenties.They have given me no grief short of a couple of tickets for driving(of course it wasn't thier fault )We also have a son that came along 11yrs ago and other than the fact we have managed to spoil him a little he appears to be on the same track.I think good can come from any of the above choices.To me we have always been 100% committed to a life that always puts Christ and his Church first,no buts.I'm not interested in debating whether or not a family or individual should attend as we have chosen to but I will add this,(it's not what you say it's what your children see you doing, and rest assured they will most likely be as committed as they see Mom and DAD )


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## crackerdave (Jan 3, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Like rangerdave and RonnieT?



No,dixie - I'm not even remotely like you,by the grace of God through Jesus Christ.


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## Carp (Jan 3, 2009)

farmasis said:


> I don't understand why they can't be in public schools. I can afford either, but my children go to public school. I will teach them about faith. They can teach them math. And when issues come up like evolution, we will talk about it.
> 
> If Christians remove ourselves from the world, who will proclaim the name of Christ to them?
> 
> ...



Amen Brother!


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 3, 2009)

rangerdave said:


> No,dixie - I'm not even remotely like you,by the grace of God through Jesus Christ.



That wasn't the question 
The question was, how would sheltered children respond when their faith is tested by someone like me.... 
And my reply was, like you and RonnieT... only able to resort to personal attacks instead of sticking with the facts!


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## Banjo (Jan 3, 2009)

Has anyone addressed the fact that the public schools indoctrinate our Covenant children with humanism which is in direct contradiction to the Bible...

Charles Francis Potter:

"What can theistic Sunday School meeting for an hour once a week, do to stem the tide of a five day program of humanistic teaching?"


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## Todd E (Jan 3, 2009)

I can not afford private school such as ACS or PACS. If I could, I would not place them there. 

By God's directing, our kids have been homeschooled. Son was since 6th grade. Daughter has been since the very beginning. I will not make schooling choices based upon man's guidance. I will allow God to direct us in the way that He wants the kids to be brought up in regards to schooling. 

My kids are not like those described by some members here when this topic comes up. As said before, many members here have met my kids.


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## Tim L (Jan 3, 2009)

I have seen children that were home schooled that really suffered because of it...a kid needs to learn how to act and respond to other people and learn to fend for themselves in social situations...a kid can be too sheltered for their own good....good example, I have a cousin that home schooled all their children (3) because they decided they didn't want to expose them to the "world"...these are real conservative christian folks...now don't get me wrong, this isn't a jab at anyones religous beliefs...

But those kids are middle age adults now and well since yall don't know them and they don't read this I'll come right out and say it; their as strange and weird as can be.....two of the three have never been able to hold a job for very long because they couldn't get along with or stand to be around the other folks at work.....one (and I can say this because I was there, had bugged my boss to interview him) many years ago interviewed for a job in sales and was offered the job, and went into a panic attack and started crying when he was told he would have to go out of state for two weeks for job training....he had never been away from home and just couldn't imagine going away somewhere away from home amongst strangers...

Only one of the three kids ever got married; mostly they just sit at home all day....real active at church, but outside of church it's pathetic and sad, they can't function in society...Now it may sound like I'm being cruel, but there's more to attending school than just academics; that is where kids learn how to get along in a world with other people.....too often, these home schooled kids never learn those things and can't function outside of church and family.  I know some people think their doing a good thing by home schooling their kids, but too often, years later those kids are totally loss when mom and dad are no longer around.


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## stiknstring (Jan 3, 2009)

Rouster said:


> I have seen children that were home schooled that really suffered because of it...a kid needs to learn how to act and respond to other people and learn to fend for themselves in social situations...a kid can be too sheltered for their own good....good example, I have a cousin that home schooled all their children (3) because they decided they didn't want to expose them to the "world"...these are real conservative christian folks...now don't get me wrong, this isn't a jab at anyones religous beliefs...
> 
> But those kids are middle age adults now and well since yall don't know them and they don't read this I'll come right out and say it; their as strange and weird as can be.....two of the three have never been able to hold a job for very long because they couldn't get along with or stand to be around the other folks at work.....one (and I can say this because I was there, had bugged my boss to interview him) many years ago interviewed for a job in sales and was offered the job, and went into a panic attack and started crying when he was told he would have to go out of state for two weeks for job training....he had never been away from home and just couldn't imagine going away somewhere away from home amongst strangers...
> 
> Only one of the three kids ever got married; mostly they just sit at home all day....real active at church, but outside of church it's pathetic and sad, they can't function in society...Now it may sound like I'm being cruel, but there's more to attending school than just academics; that is where kids learn how to get along in a world with other people.....too often, these home schooled kids never learn those things and can't function outside of church and family.  I know some people think their doing a good thing by home schooling their kids, but too often, years later those kids are totally loss when mom and dad are no longer around.



RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!  
I have nieces and nephews that are homeschooled and pray for them alot!!!!


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## Banjo (Jan 3, 2009)

Rouster said:


> I have seen children that were home schooled that really suffered because of it...a kid needs to learn how to act and respond to other people and learn to fend for themselves in social situations...a kid can be too sheltered for their own good....good example, I have a cousin that home schooled all their children (3) because they decided they didn't want to expose them to the "world"...these are real conservative christian folks...now don't get me wrong, this isn't a jab at anyones religous beliefs...
> 
> But those kids are middle age adults now and well since yall don't know them and they don't read this I'll come right out and say it; their as strange and weird as can be.....two of the three have never been able to hold a job for very long because they couldn't get along with or stand to be around the other folks at work.....one (and I can say this because I was there, had bugged my boss to interview him) many years ago interviewed for a job in sales and was offered the job, and went into a panic attack and started crying when he was told he would have to go out of state for two weeks for job training....he had never been away from home and just couldn't imagine going away somewhere away from home amongst strangers...
> 
> Only one of the three kids ever got married; mostly they just sit at home all day....real active at church, but outside of church it's pathetic and sad, they can't function in society...Now it may sound like I'm being cruel, but there's more to attending school than just academics; that is where kids learn how to get along in a world with other people.....too often, these home schooled kids never learn those things and can't function outside of church and family.  I know some people think their doing a good thing by home schooling their kids, but too often, years later those kids are totally loss when mom and dad are no longer around.



I know a LOT of homeschoolers...Typically, if the parents are strange, the children will be too...homeschooling, or environment and genetics??  I also know a few "weird" public/private school children....


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 3, 2009)

I said when my daughter was born that if the Lord provided, she'd never step a foot in a public school. She has one more year, her senior year will cost us $8000 but it's worth every penny of it. It's a struggle at times, I'm just a factory worker. My wife has worked two jobs during this time so we could afford it.


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## River Rambler (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm a product of the public skool sistem and I'm not empressed.


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## dawg2 (Jan 3, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> That wasn't the question
> The question was, how would sheltered children respond when their faith is tested by someone like me....
> And my reply was, like you and RonnieT... only able to resort to personal attacks instead of sticking with the facts!



How about both of you two knock it off.  There are enough WACKO newbies that just joined.   Don't need any long time members catching the "fever."


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## dawg2 (Jan 3, 2009)

Yes, we send ours to private, specifically for religion classes and a good education.


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## Free Willie (Jan 3, 2009)

River Rambler said:


> I'm a product of the public skool sistem and I'm not empressed.



lol!!!

For those of you who do not know, the Georgia Department of Edjoomacashun has a new program caled Georgia K12. It was started as a home school program by William Bennett who is Christian. He's not Catholic but I won't hold that against him. It is FREE for citizens of Georgia AND they will BUY you a computer and PAY for your high speed internet connection. It is a very tough program and is CHRISTIAN based. I don't know all of the specifics but you can research it is you're not lazy.

My kids are in private Catholic school. It's expensive but worth every penny. I want to keep my kids away from undesireables.


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## Free Willie (Jan 3, 2009)

^
Wacko Newbee.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 3, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> How about both of you two knock it off.  There are enough WACKO newbies that just joined.   Don't need any long time members catching the "fever."



  
Yes, sir!!!!


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 3, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> lol!!!
> 
> For those of you who do not know, the Georgia Department of Edjoomacashun has a new program caled Georgia K12. It was started as a home school program by William Bennett who is Christian. He's not Catholic but I won't hold that against him. It is FREE for citizens of Georgia AND they will BUY you a computer and PAY for your high speed internet connection. It is a very tough program and is CHRISTIAN based. I don't know all of the specifics but you can research it is you're not lazy.
> 
> My kids are in private Catholic school. It's expensive but worth every penny. I want to keep my kids away from undesireables.



You know, it's strange, because the school system wasn't always that bad here in Georgia.  When I was in 7th grade, we moved from Jonesboro to Colorado, and I was way ahead of where the school was there... then we moved to Arizona and I was still ahead of where they were.  I don't know what happened in the last 26 years or but it wasn't always this bad.



Free Willie said:


> ^
> Wacko Newbee.



I don't think he was talking about you


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## Mako22 (Jan 3, 2009)

Mine have never stepped foot in a public school and as long as I'm breathing never will.


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## Banjo (Jan 3, 2009)

River Rambler said:


> I'm a product of the public skool sistem and I'm not empressed.


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## gemcgrew (Jan 3, 2009)

My daughter and son are home schooled and I am grateful for that. Even though I realize we can not educate our children into the kingdom of God, I don't want to have to filter out what they would  learn in public schools.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 3, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> That wasn't the question
> The question was, how would sheltered children respond when their faith is tested by someone like me....
> And my reply was, like you and RonnieT... only able to resort to personal attacks instead of sticking with the facts!



DD, I think you'd have to admit that I have never said anything about you that you would disagree with.  
You attack our Christian beliefs.
I just want to make sure people are aware of what you're doing.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 3, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I know a LOT of homeschoolers...Typically, if the parents are strange, the children will be too...homeschooling, or environment and genetics??  I also know a few "weird" public/private school children....



I'm sure you're probably right.


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## matthewsman (Jan 3, 2009)

*If I could afford it?*

Yes,I'd put him in private school or homeschool him...Schools here aren't what they should be...My youngest is well behaved and a fantastic student..He's not a bit of trouble and is competitive in his quest for grades and also athleticly.I think Ga schools still have great teachers and a good curriculim,but the other students who don't try have much more effort put into them.I think the schools should put at least equal effort into a kid that trys harder. 

My concern is the distractions of racism,thugs,drugs and other things that plague our schools out here.He already does well,I don't want him discouraged or having to deal with more than he should as he grows.


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## farmasis (Jan 3, 2009)

Banjo said:


> "What can theistic Sunday School meeting for an hour once a week, do to stem the tide of a five day program of humanistic teaching?"


 
It is overcome at home.


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## farmasis (Jan 3, 2009)

River Rambler said:


> I'm a product of the public skool sistem and I'm not empressed.


 
I am a product of public school.

I have a doctorate degree in Pharmacy and more importantly a great relationship with my Savior.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 3, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> DD, I think you'd have to admit that I have never said anything about you that you would disagree with.




Well, I'm afraid I can't say that I agree with you that I'm a 'horrible person'.  In fact, most people who meet me (not on here, obviously) ask me what church I go to, they 'assume' I'm a christian.   Just goes to show that not only christians can be 'good' people.  You don't know me.  You only know a very small part that you see on here.

And before you say it, I know you don't believe that being a 'good person' gets you to heaven.  That wasn't my point. The point was that you don't know me.


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## Tim L (Jan 4, 2009)

There are two different almost unrelated threads here....as far as public schools vs prrivate schools; well that depends on where you are and the schools in your area...but either way, the kids are around other kids.....but as for home schooling; well I know there are instances where the kids turn out as well rounded people, but I'll bet thats the exception....a kid needs to experience elementary school, the pranks, the sports, first boyfriend/girl friend stuff, first fights (yes, learning to stand up for yourself), going camping and fishing with your buddies in summer and on weekends (I guess I'm thinking back to when I was a kid); then football, basketball, proms, dances, that sort of thing in high school...and just learning how to interact with others....I know folks have the very best of intentions when they home school, but in the end (and I know there are always exceptions) I still think the kids will suffer over the course of their life for all the growing up and real world expreinces that they miss..


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 4, 2009)

Rouster said:


> There are two different almost unrelated threads here....as far as public schools vs prrivate schools; well that depends on where you are and the schools in your area...but either way, the kids are around other kids.....but as for home schooling; well I know there are instances where the kids turn out as well rounded people, but I'll bet thats the exception....a kid needs to experience elementary school, the pranks, the sports, first boyfriend/girl friend stuff, first fights (yes, learning to stand up for yourself), going camping and fishing with your buddies in summer and on weekends (I guess I'm thinking back to when I was a kid); then football, basketball, proms, dances, that sort of thing in high school...and just learning how to interact with others....I know folks have the very best of intentions when they home school, but in the end (and I know there are always exceptions) I still think the kids will suffer over the course of their life for all the growing up and real world expreinces that they miss..



I agree with you 100% Rouster.


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## Arrow3 (Jan 4, 2009)

Rouster said:


> There are two different almost unrelated threads here....as far as public schools vs prrivate schools; well that depends on where you are and the schools in your area...but either way, the kids are around other kids.....but as for home schooling; well I know there are instances where the kids turn out as well rounded people, but I'll bet thats the exception....a kid needs to experience elementary school, the pranks, the sports, first boyfriend/girl friend stuff, first fights (yes, learning to stand up for yourself), going camping and fishing with your buddies in summer and on weekends (I guess I'm thinking back to when I was a kid); then football, basketball, proms, dances, that sort of thing in high school...and just learning how to interact with others....I know folks have the very best of intentions when they home school, but in the end (and I know there are always exceptions) I still think the kids will suffer over the course of their life for all the growing up and real world expreinces that they miss..




Great post!!


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 4, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Well, I'm afraid I can't say that I agree with you that I'm a 'horrible person'.  In fact, most people who meet me (not on here, obviously) ask me what church I go to, they 'assume' I'm a christian.   Just goes to show that not only christians can be 'good' people.  You don't know me.  You only know a very small part that you see on here.
> 
> And before you say it, I know you don't believe that being a 'good person' gets you to heaven.  That wasn't my point. The point was that you don't know me.



DD I'll go on record saying I have no reason to doubt what you have said here.I don't doubt that you would help whom ever you could,but I also will add we think light years apart spiritually.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 4, 2009)

THREEJAYS said:


> DD I'll go on record saying I have no reason to doubt what you have said here.I don't doubt that you would help whom ever you could,



Thank you, threejays  



> but I also will add we think light years apart spiritually.



I would agree


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## Banjo (Jan 4, 2009)

Rouster said:


> There are two different almost unrelated threads here....as far as public schools vs prrivate schools; well that depends on where you are and the schools in your area...but either way, the kids are around other kids.....but as for home schooling; well I know there are instances where the kids turn out as well rounded people, but I'll bet thats the exception....a kid needs to experience elementary school, the pranks, the sports, first boyfriend/girl friend stuff, first fights (yes, learning to stand up for yourself), going camping and fishing with your buddies in summer and on weekends (I guess I'm thinking back to when I was a kid); then football, basketball, proms, dances, that sort of thing in high school...and just learning how to interact with others....I know folks have the very best of intentions when they home school, but in the end (and I know there are always exceptions) I still think the kids will suffer over the course of their life for all the growing up and real world expreinces that they miss..



Experience can be a hard teacher...Do you also think children need to be exposed to drugs?  How about violence?  How about AIDS?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 4, 2009)

Ours is in a Private School


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## leroy (Jan 4, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Charles Francis Potter:
> 
> "What can theistic Sunday School meeting for an hour once a week, do to stem the tide of a five day program of humanistic teaching?"



If all they get is what they receive at Church then yes they are in trouble it has to be instilled at home also not just at Church.


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## dawg2 (Jan 4, 2009)

leroy said:


> If all they get is what they receive at Church then yes they are in trouble it has to be instilled at home also not just at Church.


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## leroy (Jan 4, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Experience can be a hard teacher...Do you also think children need to be exposed to drugs?  How about violence?  How about AIDS?



Homeschooling will keep them from it for a time but sooner or later they are going to have to face the world with all of its evils and make decisions some of which will be wrong and hopefully they will learn from them but thats life. As someone said you can shelter them to much.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 5, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> Mine have never stepped foot in a public school and as long as I'm breathing never will.



Is this to say you skimp on life insurance?


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 5, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> DD, I think you'd have to admit that I have never said anything about you that you would disagree with.
> You attack our Christian beliefs.
> I just want to make sure people are aware of what you're doing.



I haven't seen any attacks on the Christian soldiers.  Seemed pretty benign, imo.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 5, 2009)

leroy said:


> If all they get is what they receive at Church then yes they are in trouble it has to be instilled at home also not just at Church.



That was an arcing softball right over the plate.  Good answer.


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Experience can be a hard teacher...Do you also think children need to be exposed to drugs?  How about violence?  How about AIDS?



Your right, there are lots of bad things out there and I know that sometimes kids suffer from being exposed to them at an early age.  As I said, don't get me wrong, I have no doulbt that most parents that home school their children have the very best of intentions and that they sacrifice alot in order to do it.  But I also think that in the long run (and I know there will always be exceptions) kids need to be exposed to the real world because thats the world we live in.  I know that can be taken to an extreme; I'm not saying take a kid down to Stewart Avenue in East Point, put him out on a friday night, then come back and get him on Sunday evening so that he can toughen up, sink or swim as they say....But school is the place where kids are exposed to other people, other cultures, people with different values, being that are different from what they are used to for the first time.  That is where most of us first learn to get along in the world...More often than not, and this is just my opinion, more kids will suffer over the course of a lifetime from being deprived of that experience than will benifit from it.

But again, I know that the majority of folks that homeschool their children are good people that have what they consider to be their kids best interests at heart and that they sacrifice alot in order to do that..


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## PWalls (Jan 5, 2009)

Yes. I would send all three to a private school.

Of course, that is why we don't have a "voucher" system. There would be a mass migration from public schools to private schools. Of course, then you would have to have more private schools and in the end the sheer volume of the migration would eventually ensure that you end up with private schools that are run just like the current public schools.


----------



## fivesolas (Jan 5, 2009)

We have 5 children, 3 schoolage, and one on the way. Our commitment is to homeschool them all. 

Concerning right or wrong in this situation, one thing that needs to be said is that this decision should be the parents...not the state, or the federal government. Parents should continue to be FREE to homeschool, or not homeschool their children. Nor should there be any interference from the state or other agency to regulate or control the curriculum. 

That said, any school that does not educate a worldview that includes God, educates an atheistic worldview. This is the condition of our public schools, everywhere. 

The idea of non-socialized kids because of homeschooling is so old, so debunked, that I am beginning to think there are those who just want to perpetrate that lie. Homeschooled kids are habitually outperforming public schooled kids time and time again. I think the state may be pushing the lie that homeschooled kids are disadvantaged socially. 

This idea is a direct attack upon the family, and the authority of parents, which the state often likes to usurp. There is no better training ground given by God to raise and educate children than the family. 

The idea of our children as "missionaries" to public schools is about as bright as throwing a child in the deep end of the pool to teach him to swim. Save that backwoods ignorant reasoning of the simple minded. 

We will train our children in the way they should go. We will raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7

Last I checked, our public schools were not teaching the fear of the Lord. Therefore, those brought up in that education have not even begun to obtain knowledge. 

Now I am not condemning any Christian parent who has their children in public schools. I am sharing what we believe and our views. Anyone considering homeschooling needs to prayerfully make that decision. It is a tough road but worth it. And we believe it is the true biblical model. 

Whatever the case may be, a parent(s) make the difference. If you are not involved with your child's life, spending quality and quanity time with them (a kid doesn't get the quality idea, but they do remember how much time you spent with them...), teaching Christ in your home, praying with your children, reading the Scriptures with your children, fathers...teaching your children the doctrines of Christ, mothers...teaching your children the doctrines of Christ...living as Christians in your home, then it doesn't matter whether you homeschool or not. 

You can bet on one thing...you are training your children in the way they should go...one way or another, whether you realize it or not. They are watching you. 

And as for one of my children encountering someone who wants to destroy their faith, who is agnostic or atheist, et. No worries. I teach my children not only what the truth is, but also why. I teaching not only what is correct thinking, but how to think logically and rationally. And they learn both sides of the issue...unlike I did in public schools and state college. What I received there was an indoctrination. What my children recieve IS education. They know what evolution is. They can learn what creation is and the Intelligent Design movement. They would never get this education in public school. 

five


----------



## Banjo (Jan 5, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> We have 5 children, 3 schoolage, and one on the way. Our commitment is to homeschool them all.
> 
> Concerning right or wrong in this situation, one thing that needs to be said is that this decision should be the parents...not the state, or the federal government. Parents should continue to be FREE to homeschool, or not homeschool their children. Nor should there be any interference from the state or other agency to regulate or control the curriculum.
> 
> ...






I might add that statist education is a movement that socialists have always promoted.  Research John Dewey (the father of modern education) and the Humanist Manifesto.  

I have been reading a GREAT book:

The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States

by:  Benjamin Morris

It has been out of print, but has been republished by American Vision.  It is incredible.  I keep thinking...they never taught me this in public school or college.

It begins with this proposition:

"They had no state church or state religion, but they constituted the Christian religion the underlying foundation and the girding and guiding element of their systems of civil, political, and social institutions."

(Theocracy anyone?)

The author goes on to masterfully prove this using original source documents and quotes. 

It will be required reading for my children.


----------



## fivesolas (Jan 5, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I might add that statist education is a movement that socialists have always promoted.  Research John Dewey (the father of modern education) and the Humanist Manifesto.
> 
> I have been reading a GREAT book:
> 
> ...



Sounds like a great book. I have read a little mroe than half of the a book called "The Constitution and Christianity" quite the eye opener.


----------



## The AmBASSaDEER (Jan 5, 2009)

I voted NO. I would not want to be home schooled. My Momma is a teacher and she says she wouldnt want to home school me.

I think that kids miss out on meetin and learnin from other people(good/bad)


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## ToLog (Jan 5, 2009)

seems like when Israel became an entity and for years afterward, and maybe even now, they placed lots of the children in kibbutz. i interpret that as state-run schools to assimilate the vast differences in the new immigrant children from all over the globe whose parents chose to migrate to Israel.

from all indications, it's been a great success. it's difficult to keep people segregated and at peace both. 

home schooling would probably be a great thing if we were all very homogenous in our makeup, but we're not.

the learning going on in the classroom is more than readin' writin' and rithmatic imho. 

but, bottom line, to each his own.


----------



## PWalls (Jan 5, 2009)

The AmBASSaDEER said:


> I voted NO. I would not want to be home schooled. My Momma is a teacher and she says she wouldnt want to home school me.
> 
> I think that kids miss out on meetin and learnin from other people(good/bad)



The question was worded home school OR private school. I would not want to do home school because neither my wife or I are qualified (or feel that way at least) to instruct our children and oversee that level of detail in their education. However, we do have a pretty good private school here that I would like to send the children to if I could afford it.


----------



## Banjo (Jan 5, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Sounds like a great book. I have read a little mroe than half of the a book called "The Constitution and Christianity" quite the eye opener.



Who is the author?


----------



## The AmBASSaDEER (Jan 5, 2009)

PWalls said:


> The question was worded home school OR private school. I would not want to do home school because neither my wife or I are qualified (or feel that way at least) to instruct our children and oversee that level of detail in their education. However, we do have a pretty good private school here that I would like to send the children to if I could afford it.



Maybe private, not home


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## fivesolas (Jan 5, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Who is the author?



Eidsmoe, was recommended by a seminary professor to me. 

http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Constitution-Faith-Founding-Fathers/dp/0801052319


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## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> We have 5 children, 3 schoolage, and one on the way. Our commitment is to homeschool them all.
> 
> Concerning right or wrong in this situation, one thing that needs to be said is that this decision should be the parents...not the state, or the federal government. Parents should continue to be FREE to homeschool, or not homeschool their children. Nor should there be any interference from the state or other agency to regulate or control the curriculum.
> 
> ...



Simmer down five, simmer down.

You might get amens from more than just Banjo if you keep the tone a bit more sivel...er...i mean civil.


----------



## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2009)

farmasis said:


> If Christians remove ourselves from the world, who will proclaim the name of Christ to them?




Farm, 
I don't agree with this reasoning...there are a lot of unsaved non-christian kids at private schools.  Sometimes, the rotten eggs that have gotten kicked out of the public schools can only go to private schools.  

Also, there are many out of the home activities that can be given to homeschoolers.  A lot of people talk of sports and other things.  Look at Tim Tebow.  He was a homeschooler and seems to be doing just fine in the real world.

Oh boy..Lord please forgive me for praising Tim Tebow


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## gtparts (Jan 5, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Farm,
> I don't agree with this reasoning...there are a lot of unsaved non-christian kids at private schools.  Sometimes, the rotten eggs that have gotten kicked out of the public schools can only go to private schools.
> 
> Also, there are many out of the home activities that can be given to homeschoolers.  A lot of people talk of sports and other things.  Look at Tim Tebow.  He was a homeschooler and seems to be doing just fine in the real world.
> ...



What? Tebow wash your feet?    uh oh..... wrong thread

bye


----------



## Banjo (Jan 5, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Eidsmoe, was recommended by a seminary professor to me.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Constitution-Faith-Founding-Fathers/dp/0801052319



Thanks!  I am putting it on my list!


----------



## The Big Z (Jan 5, 2009)

You need to add another column.  (Both)  Both of my kids have attended a Private school and are now being Home Schooled.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages.  The decision to Home School or Private School was decided upon before our children were even born.  This was based upon my wife's experience.

I am Fortunate to have a wife that has been a high school teacher since she graduated college, teaching all levels of Math and Science.  (20 Years)

Since weve moved here to Georgia in 2006 we have been fortunate to be able to allow her the opportunity to Home School.

I can't say that they will be in a Private or Home School situation until they graduate.  I don't know the future.

As far as the education is concerned I know that our kids are learning more at home versus at a Private School.  This is based upon their SAT's.

We feel that Private Schools are better then the Public School system.  Again based upon their SAT's.

Bottom line is that if the parents are not involved the childern's education will suffer.


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## farmasis (Jan 5, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Farm,
> I don't agree with this reasoning...there are a lot of unsaved non-christian kids at private schools. Sometimes, the rotten eggs that have gotten kicked out of the public schools can only go to private schools.


 
What I am saying is that if all Christians removed their children from public school, how will the public school children who are left (from non-Christian homes) get Christian influence from their peers?


----------



## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2009)

farmasis said:


> What I am saying is that if all Christians removed their children from public school, how will the public school children who are left (from non-Christian homes) get Christian influence from their peers?



Just like the people who are here after the rapture will get their Christian influence

Kids interact with other kids in other places than just school.  Do your kids have friends who they play with outside of school?  I know when I was growing up, I had friends on my street that I played with.  I played baseball with kids I didn't go to school with.  

Just can't use that as the reason for sending a kid to public school over Christian school or homeschool.

Now...don't get me wrong.  You can search every post I've ever had.  I'm not one who says homeschool/christian school is the only Biblical way of doing it.  I'm not going to say that public school is the best either.  Both have their advantages and both have their places.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 5, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Just like the people who are here after the rapture will get their Christian influence



 I liked that, good point..... Maybe from 144,000 Jewish preachers...


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## farmasis (Jan 5, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Kids interact with other kids in other places than just school. Do your kids have friends who they play with outside of school? I know when I was growing up, I had friends on my street that I played with. I played baseball with kids I didn't go to school with.


 

Ahhhh.

So, then can we assume that since the public school kids will get an adequate amount of influence from private and homeschool kids about religion from intermingling outside of school, that the home schooled and private schooled kids would get equal amount of influence from public school kids about drugs, violence, sex, etc?


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## farmasis (Jan 5, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> .. Maybe from 144,000 Jewish preachers...


 

You got it!


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## rjcruiser (Jan 5, 2009)

farmasis said:


> Ahhhh.
> 
> So, then can we assume that since the public school kids will get an adequate amount of influence from private and homeschool kids about religion from intermingling outside of school, that the home schooled and private schooled kids would get equal amount of influence from public school kids about drugs, violence, sex, etc?



Yup...I'd agree with you on that point.  There are bad eggs in every basket and if you want your kids to be involved in extraciricular activities, they'll be influenced by the world as well.


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

I had more time to review this movement and give it my 110% support and agreement. Our schools are marxist, atheist, immoral, and godless. Christian parents need to be more responsible to their God mandated responsibility to raise AND educate their children according to the Scriptures. 

Based on the legislation being pushed in California to require teaching the normalization of sodomy (homosexuality) every Christian parent should begin an immediate plan to remove their children from such reprehensible and immoral subjugation to the state. 

Public schools are not doing the job God requires of His people in raising children. Parents need to step up, quit making excuses, make lifestyle changes, and raise their children properly. 

The idea that this worked for the Jews but not Christians because we are not a communal society is bogus. There are myriads of homeschool networks and support within the Christian community where any mom or dad can get all the support they need. There are co-ops between parents where classes can be taught, activities planned, et. et. 

And btw, my 5 year old just started reading. My 8 year old is a grade ahead of his normal class.

-five


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

> And btw, my 5 year old just started reading. My 8 year old is a grade ahead of his normal class.



That is one of the advantages of homeschooling...a tailored education to fit each individual child's needs.  

I enjoy the standardized tests that I give my children; it is quite interesting to see where they compare to the national average.  When my oldest was in 6th grade, her reading/comprehension/vocabulary scores were all at a high school level...some were post highschool. 

It doesn't take eight hours a day to academically train a child.  We excel in fewer hours; this leaves them time to pursue other things.  One of which has been music....and Mario Karts.


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> That is one of the advantages of homeschooling...a tailored education to fit each individual child's needs.
> 
> I enjoy the standardized tests that I give my children; it is quite interesting to see where they compare to the national average.  When my oldest was in 6th grade, her reading/comprehension/vocabulary scores were all at a high school level...some were post highschool.
> 
> It doesn't take eight hours a day to academically train a child.  We excel in fewer hours; this leaves them time to pursue other things.  One of which has been music....and Mario Karts.



Amen! My daughter is progressing fine in her schooling, and is on par based on the standardized testing. This is made room for her to pursue her love of horseriding and competition.


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## hawglips (Jan 6, 2009)

Public schools today are where kids learn about vulgarity, immorality, drugs, disrespect for elders and authority, political correctness, social engineering, leftism, and other things that are destroying the fabric of this republic.  If you can afford it, get them out -- regardless of how well you think you're doing at home teaching Christian values.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I had more time to review this movement and give it my 110% support and agreement. Our schools are marxist, atheist, immoral, and godless. Christian parents need to be more responsible to their God mandated responsibility to raise AND educate their children according to the Scriptures.
> 
> Based on the legislation being pushed in California to require teaching the normalization of sodomy (homosexuality) every Christian parent should begin an immediate plan to remove their children from such reprehensible and immoral subjugation to the state.
> 
> ...



five, read post #60.

It is funny to me how you get so upset when people make gross generalizations about how socially retarded homeschool kids are, but then you go and grossly generalize how public schools are athiestic, marxist etc etc.

Again, I agree with the fact that there are schools out there that aren't good schools.  But, for the record, I went to a public high school in the great state of California.  We were able to have an on campus Bible study.  I was able to be a testimony for Christ to 2500 fellow students (actually, my scope of influence was probably around 30 kids that were all in honors/ap classes together )  Did I learn more than just science and math...sure.  Did I learn what marijuana smoke smelled like...sure did.  Did I get involved in drugs/alcohol and premarital sex?  Nope.

In the city and school district I live in, will I send my kids to public schools...nope.  But I will not say that it is unBiblical or a sin to do so.  That is nothing more than LEGALISM run amok.


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> five, read post #60.
> 
> It is funny to me how you get so upset when people make gross generalizations about how socially retarded homeschool kids are, but then you go and grossly generalize how public schools are athiestic, marxist etc etc.
> 
> ...



Your school didn't mandate the forced endorsement of sodomy. Apparantly, California is now doing so. How old are you? Your high school days/grade school days are not the same as today. It's different. 

I also went to public school. It was a cesspool then and is worse now. If you want to call my conviction and exhortation to parents and christians legalism, so be it. If you can prove my statements biblically untrue, then do so. However, I can prove that it is the parents responsibility from Scripture to educate their children. 

Public schools are atheist, marxist, leftist indoctrination camps, in my opinion. As are the state colleges. If someone doesn't want to believe that, I think they are waaaay out of the loop. I finished college a bit late in life, and as a Christian. NEVER did I have a class where Christianity in some shape or form, WAS NOT under attack.

But if you care to share with me a public school that teaches to fear the God of the Bible, then I will gladly retract my statement.


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## Jim Thompson (Jan 6, 2009)

private hands down over public.

Ive had kids in both and there is an absolutely massive difference in not only the academics and standards that the school is teaching, but also in the kids attending.

remember that with private school you will run into a majority of parents and teachers that want the same as you want...a good environment for the kids.  meaning you will not have NEARLY as many parents and teachers who just dont care.

can kids do well in public school?  of course but the ride is a whole lot bumpier


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## pigpen1 (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Your school didn't mandate the forced endorsement of sodomy. Apparantly, California is now doing so. How old are you? Your high school days/grade school days are not the same as today. It's different.
> 
> I also went to public school. It was a cesspool then and is worse now. If you want to call my conviction and exhortation to parents and christians legalism, so be it. If you can prove my statements biblically untrue, then do so. However, I can prove that it is the parents responsibility from Scripture to educate their children.
> 
> ...



 I agree!! The whole public school system is on a down hill slide or should I say going in a hand basket....that's like the other thread on here where the man is promoting teaching ''ALL'' religions in public schools. If they was to do that then that opens the door for some nut to say '' my religion is to worship Satan'' and the ACLU will take it to court and a Liberal Judge will rule in favor of them, and  force them to teach it. So our schools are not taught in the church buildings of yesteryear, but are dictated by left wing nuts..
  So I think home schooling or private school would be the best...its not the schools job to teach my children about the gods of this world, but its my job to teach my kids about the GOD that created this world...


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Your school didn't mandate the forced endorsement of sodomy. Apparantly, California is now doing so. How old are you? Your high school days/grade school days are not the same as today. It's different.
> 
> I also went to public school. It was a cesspool then and is worse now. If you want to call my conviction and exhortation to parents and christians legalism, so be it. If you can prove my statements biblically untrue, then do so. However, I can prove that it is the parents responsibility from Scripture to educate their children.
> 
> ...



I just turned 29.  Yup...last week, I was hoping I'd get one of those threads in the main forum "Happy Bday rjcruiser" but apparently, nobody is on this forum during the christmas break and I'm not that popular 

So can a lot change in 10 years...yup.  But I don't think that the curiculum nor the environment has changed too much.  Yup...it is your opinion on the leftist marxist indoctrination thing as well.  And it is other's opinions that homeschool kids are socially retarded.  I just find it funny how you get really upset when others generalize about homeschoolers but then you generalize about public schools.  Just trying to keep you honest.  And fwiw, I did have several classes in the public school system where my belief system was not attacked.

Oh...and btw, please give me the scriptural support for Homeschool.  Of course children are the responsibility of the parent, but a parent can be Biblically responsible and still send their children to public schools.  Takes more work on their part, but it is possible.


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I just turned 29.  Yup...last week, I was hoping I'd get one of those threads in the main forum "Happy Bday rjcruiser" but apparently, nobody is on this forum during the christmas break and I'm not that popular
> 
> So can a lot change in 10 years...yup.  But I don't think that the curiculum nor the environment has changed too much.  Yup...it is your opinion on the leftist marxist indoctrination thing as well.  And it is other's opinions that homeschool kids are socially retarded.  I just find it funny how you get really upset when others generalize about homeschoolers but then you generalize about public schools.  Just trying to keep you honest.  And fwiw, I did have several classes in the public school system where my belief system was not attacked.
> 
> Oh...and btw, please give me the scriptural support for Homeschool.  Of course children are the responsibility of the parent, but a parent can be Biblically responsible and still send their children to public schools.  Takes more work on their part, but it is possible.



I understand your intention is noble in trying to keep me honest (which is implying I am being dishonest) concerning public school kids and homeschool kids. But you seem to have overlooked something. The attacks on homeschooling are attacks on the children. 

I am not attacking public school kids are saying anything about THEM. I am making a statement of fact that the public school system is atheist, leftist, and marxist...and it is. So your comparrison doesn't work. A proper comparrison would be to compare homeschool curiculums with public school. In my home, the glaring difference would be the Lord Jesus Christ, abscent from the public school teachings, but present in everything we do at home. 



> The method:
> 
> Deut 6
> 
> ...



In a public school setting, none of these areas are met.


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## bearmountainmastiffs (Jan 6, 2009)

I DO homeschool my children and have never looked back. We love it! I have a 9 and 11 year old. Been doing it for 3 years! We are big into 4-H, show goats, ride horses,rescue dogs and raise our own chickens and calves and raise English Mastiffs and Bullmastiffs.... what better wholesome life you ask for! The Lord blesses those who do his will... BTW I am not downing public school. I worked for them and my kids were happy but we do a christian curriculum and have bible study every day. We love it!


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

The Proverbs are full of warnings about corrupt company...yet many Christians not only allow their children to attend school with corrupt company, but in many (if not most) instances allow a corrupt teacher to influence their children.

40+ hours a week


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## ToLog (Jan 6, 2009)

woohoo!  this is a tough crowd. 

many of "us" would probably fit in just fine, if'n a big wind picked us up and placed us with the Essenes or Zealots in ancient Israel.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I understand your intention is noble in trying to keep me honest (which is implying I am being dishonest) concerning public school kids and homeschool kids. But you seem to have overlooked something. The attacks on homeschooling are attacks on the children.
> 
> I am not attacking public school kids are saying anything about THEM. I am making a statement of fact that the public school system is atheist, leftist, and marxist...and it is. So your comparrison doesn't work. A proper comparrison would be to compare homeschool curiculums with public school. In my home, the glaring difference would be the Lord Jesus Christ, abscent from the public school teachings, but present in everything we do at home.


I don't buy the first part about it being an attack on the kids.  It is their parent's err....I mean teacher's fault that they don't get enough interaction with other kids.  They are both gross generalizations and don't get mad at others for doing it when you do it yourself




			
				fivesolas said:
			
		

> The method:
> 
> Deut 6
> 
> ...


While I agree with you a little bit on the fact that most of those are not met in the public school setting, I will say that my parents fulfilled all of those while I attended public school.  To say that these verses condemn public education is nothing less than LEGALISM.  

Is that how you feel led by the Holy Spirit?  Obviously.  Not legalistic for you to do it.  However, when you begin to judge others and condemn others for not doing it, that is legalism.  Just like the scribes in the time of Jesus.  Adding rules and regs that weren't there to begin with.



Banjo said:


> The Proverbs are full of warnings about corrupt company...yet many Christians not only allow their children to attend school with corrupt company, but in many (if not most) instances allow a corrupt teacher to influence their children.
> 
> 40+ hours a week



Hmmm...while we are on the subject of math.  40+ hours a week...doesn't jive.  My school was from 8-3.  That is 7 hours.  There was over 1 hour devoted to lunch and breaks.  That reduces the "indoctrination" time to 6 hours.  Spread that over the 200 days of school and you've got 1,200 hours out of the year.  You've got 8,760 hours in a year.  That means they are being indoctrinated just 13.6% of the year.  

So, do you think your kids learn more in that 14% of govt indoctrination or in the other 86% of the time? 

Can you tell I'm an accountant


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I don't buy the first part about it being an attack on the kids.  It is their parent's err....I mean teacher's fault that they don't get enough interaction with other kids.  They are both gross generalizations and don't get mad at others for doing it when you do it yourself
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your still missing the point. As an account, shouldn't you pay attention to detail? lol 

My remarks are FACTUAL remarks concerning the curriculum of public schools, atheist, marxist, leftist. Now, if you wish to refute the point, then please direct me to a public school that teaches concernign the One True God. 

Also, I am not mad...are you? 

What verse in your opinion support public education, and that by a godless state? If I order the raising of my children by the Scripture, and not make judgment on personal experience, then I come to a different conlusion than you do. 

I have not accused you or made personal attacks. If you are a brother in Christ, check yourself brother. Why do you insist on accusing your brother? The same rhetorica of legalism/pharisee/et. ad nausium, comes from the ungodly and those professing Christ but deny Him by their works. I am not saying that this is you, but offering a brotherly warning not to falsely accuse your brothers in Christ (or sisters) and regard that a call to holiness is NOT legalism. 

The manner in which you are defining legalism is not my understanding of it. Legalism is not anti-law. Biblical legalism is seeking to justify one's self before God by the works of the Law, rather than by faith alone.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Your still missing the point. As an account, shouldn't you pay attention to detail? lol
> 
> My remarks are FACTUAL remarks concerning the curriculum of public schools, atheist, marxist, leftist. Now, if you wish to refute the point, then please direct me to a public school that teaches concernign the One True God.
> 
> ...



Nope...not mad.  And I think we have a lot in-common.  Just can't stand legalism.  

If a Christian parent sends their kids to public school and does not teach them anything regarding the scriptures or does not come alongside that education and correct the inconsistences between the public school curriculum and the Bible, then they would be in Sin.

But putting a blanket statement down that sending your kids to public schools is a sin, is adding rules to scripture.  That is my understanding of legalism.  

From wikipedia


> Legalism, in Christian theology, is a pejorative term referring to an over-emphasis on law or codes of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigor, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. Its opposite error is antinomianism, which is alleged against a view that moral laws are not binding.



I see your point though on viewing that it isn't God's grace and I don't think you believe that for a bit.

Again, from my personal experience, the only curriculum that I had in HS that was contradictory to the Bible was in Science class and in the teaching of evolution.  Never had it taught that homosexuality was the norm.  Never had it taught that socialism was the key to success.  Did I have a spanish teacher who was a lesbian?  Yes, but she never ever tried to force her belief system on the student.

But, let me ask you a basic question.  One that I asked Banjo in the last homeschooling thread we had (I think it was a month or two ago).  Seeing that I went to a public school for high school, were my parents in sin for sending me there?


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

> Hmmm...while we are on the subject of math. 40+ hours a week...doesn't jive. My school was from 8-3. That is 7 hours. There was over 1 hour devoted to lunch and breaks. That reduces the "indoctrination" time to 6 hours. Spread that over the 200 days of school and you've got 1,200 hours out of the year. You've got 8,760 hours in a year. That means they are being indoctrinated just 13.6% of the year.
> 
> So, do you think your kids learn more in that 14% of govt indoctrination or in the other 86% of the time?
> 
> Can you tell I'm an accountant



I am no accountant, so if you have time, could  you compute the following:

On the school bus a 7:00 a.m...Dropped off at school by 8:00...Out of school at 3:00...after school care until 5:30/6:00 or on the bus until 4:00....

Indoctrination does not just take place in the classroom, you have to account (no pun intended ) for the couple of hours on the bus, in the lunchroom, in after school care where children are influenced by their peers with little adult oversight.

Now...factor in the fact that most parents are tired after working all day (rightly so) and have their household chores to do after work i.e. grocery shopping, laundry, dinner, dishes, lawn care, homework assistance.  How much time do you think these parents can spend attending to the religious training of their children?


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

I think we also have to be honest when trying to answer the following questions:

Is God pleased with us when we allow the state to teach our children things contrary to His nature and His Holy Word?  Is God pleased when He is not the focal point for all education?   Can there be true knowledge gained apart from the Lord Jesus...or is it just man's foolish attempt to set himself up as his own god?


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## ToLog (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I think we also have to be honest when trying to answer the following questions:
> 
> Is God pleased with us when we allow the state to teach our children things contrary to His nature and His Holy Word?  Is God pleased when He is not the focal point for all education?   Can there be true knowledge gained apart from the Lord Jesus...or is it just man's foolish attempt to set himself up as his own god?



ya'll are beginning to dig down to the quick. 

public school for the poor, for the working class has been the greatest value or bargain they perhaps would or could ever recieve.  but, let me go on a step further. 

culturally, we've become a consumer economy, along with the marketers, the bean-counters, , and high technology supported by engineers, lawyers, and  powerful armed forces. 

that leaves people only time to work, commute to work, and consume. yes, remember we're a consumption based economy. but, what to do about the children?

educate them, to become functional members of society of course. the poor needs a place for the children while they work. they work in order to purchase cars, houses, vacations, clothes, food, and high technology.

now, mostly, both parents, if there are two, have to work to make ends meet. who can afford to have a stay at home spouse with the children, and pay school tax too?

who can afford private school education, whether religious or secular?  why the well-to-do, that's who. 

as long as we choose to place the "sacred" inside the secular, this will continue to be the pattern, i would think.

is it good or bad? don't know, every case is different.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I am no accountant, so if you have time, could  you compute the following:
> 
> On the school bus a 7:00 a.m...Dropped off at school by 8:00...Out of school at 3:00...after school care until 5:30/6:00 or on the bus until 4:00....
> 
> ...



Well, you're now starting to add to the issues of public schools.  What if one of the parents doesn't work.  What if they drop them off at school?  What if the kid has a core group of friends that are Christians and they hang out during lunch.  What if the parents spend plenty of time attending to the religious training of their children?  

Now all of the sudden these blanket statements just don't cover everyone anymore.



Banjo said:


> I think we also have to be honest when trying to answer the following questions:
> 
> Is God pleased with us when we allow the state to teach our children things contrary to His nature and His Holy Word?  Is God pleased when He is not the focal point for all education?   Can there be true knowledge gained apart from the Lord Jesus...or is it just man's foolish attempt to set himself up as his own god?



If the parent takes the responsibility in teaching the child...allowing the state to come alongside and assist with the education, then I don't see how God wouldn't be pleased.  If the parent is viewing it as the state teaching the child and the parent not having a part in it, then yes, God would not be pleased.

And as far as your question about true knowledge, what is your definition of true knowledge?  I'm sure Pnome would say that he has gained much knowledge apart from the Lord Jesus.


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

> If the parent takes the responsibility in teaching the child...allowing the state to come alongside and assist with the education, then I don't see how God wouldn't be pleased. If the parent is viewing it as the state teaching the child and the parent not having a part in it, then yes, God would not be pleased.



Come on now, rj...  You know the STATE doesn't "come alongside" to teach...

You didn't really answer the question...

Is GOD pleased when we allow anti-Christian doctrine to be pumped in our malleable children's minds?  Remember everything not FOR Christ is against Him. Neutrality does not exist.  

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.  (Sorry, pnome.)  This includes our state education system.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

roothog said:


> now, mostly, both parents, if there are two, have to work to make ends meet. who can afford to have a stay at home spouse with the children, and pay school tax too?



Not true...just takes some sacrificing.

But it is an interesting observation.  Actually, I read an article by a mother/daughter team that explained why dual incomes had become a necessity in the US.  The main reason is that as some families started doing it, they could buy more things.  Therefore, demand went up...and so did prices.  As prices went up, it forced more and more Moms back to work so that they could afford the "necessities" of life.  It caused inflation and basically was an upward spiral.  Now, it has gotten to the place where most "can't afford" not to work.

Again, I don't buy it.  Most of the women I work with, don't work because they have to, but because they'd rather not have to deal with their kids during the day.  Now, this...this is not obeying your responsibility as a parent.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Come on now, rj...  You know the STATE doesn't "come alongside" to teach...
> 
> You didn't really answer the question...
> 
> Is GOD pleased when we allow anti-Christian doctrine to be pumped in our malleable children's minds?  Remember everything not FOR Christ is against Him. Neutrality does not exist.





You know, you never answered my question that I posed to you in the last homeschool thread either (the one I asked fivesolas above).

I'll start from the top.

The state will do what you allow it to do.  If you allow it to teach your kids, then it will.  If you only allow it to come alongside your own teaching as a parent, then you have that ability.  Does it take work....yes.  But being a godly parent is hard work.

Now, for the answer you want.  No, God is not pleased when we allow anti-Christian doctrine to be pumped into our malleable children's minds...................but

I'll add that sending your kids to public school doesn't mean that you as a parent are allowing anti-Christian doctrine to be pumped into your kid's mind.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Most of the women I work, don't work because they have to, but because they'd rather not have to deal with their kids during the day.  Now, this...this is not obeying your responsibility as a parent.



Most of the women I know work because the man doesn't bring home enough money to support the family. However most of the women that I know that don't work, homeschool their children. My entire family homeschools their children and my brother has 8 children. 

I think the men could work a second job so the mother wouldn't have to work, but they need time off to go hunting or watch ballgames. 
Oh and who takes care of the kids when the menfolk are out hunting and fishing?  Where is their parental responsibility?


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## PoBoy (Jan 6, 2009)

I have used private schools, I have homeschooled and now use public schools.  Each have there distinct advantages and very distinct disadvantages.  So far, a well run public school system would be my pick. That is what we relocated for, school system.  Of the three, private school is the last on the list.


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## ToLog (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Most of the women I work, don't work because they have to, but because they'd rather not have to deal with their kids during the day.  Now, this...this is not obeying your responsibility as a parent.




you've got some well-heeled spouses husbands in the mix if this is the way it is. i find that women entering the workforce is a necessity. that leaves the children for either public or private schooling.

it depends in large part on where one's family is on the economic ladder AND as you say, their willingness to sacrifice for their beliefs.  

i'm not about to say home schooling or private schooling or public schooling is either all bad or all good. it's just not the case, although they all have their proponents.

but, for the working class, public schools over the years have been a Godsend. they have helped elevate people into careers and a quality of life that they'd never have without the gov't intervention.  imho.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Most of the women I know work because the man doesn't bring home enough money to support the family. However most of the women that I know that don't work, homeschool their children. My entire family homeschools their children and my brother has 8 children.
> 
> I think the men could work a second job so the mother wouldn't have to work, but they need time off to go hunting or watch ballgames.
> Oh and who takes care of the kids when the menfolk are out hunting and fishing?  Where is their parental responsibility?




You bring up a whole different topic with your post.

However, all of the sudden, it isn't so cut and dry like Banjo and Five Solas want it to be.

FWIW, my mom didn't work outside the home while we (my brother and I) were growing up.  Actually, now that we are out of the house, she still doesn't work outside of the home.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

roothog said:


> you've got some well-heeled spouses husbands in the mix if this is the way it is. i find that women entering the workforce is a necessity. that leaves the children for either public or private schooling.



depends on what you call necessity.

For instance, one lady I work with drives around a late model suburban, husband has a less than one year old boat, son plays tournament baseball that probably costs around $2k per year, daughter does several musical instruments and volleyball.  Cell phones, Super Cable/Dish TV, Plasma's, Xbox 360s  Itouch's & Laptops for Christmas etc etc.

Now...all are those needs?  

Kinda like the lady at walmart paying for $300 of groceries with her peach state card while talking on her iphone and then walks out to the parking lot and gets into her tahoe with 26" chrome rims    Meanwhile, I'm using a two and a half year old cell phone and driving my 15 year old 2wd Toyota pick up.

Nope...I don't buy the notion that two incomes is a necessity.


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## ToLog (Jan 6, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> depends on what you call necessity.
> 
> For instance, one lady I work with drives around a late model suburban, husband has a less than one year old boat, son plays tournament baseball that probably costs around $2k per year, daughter does several musical instruments and volleyball.  Cell phones, Super Cable/Dish TV, Plasma's, Xbox 360s  Itouch's & Laptops for Christmas etc etc.
> 
> ...



let me just follow up quickly and say that many of us "thinks" its a necessity. 

is it, really, really?  of course not.

we could live in a cave, and beg for alms. plenty of people do that.  but most of "us" aspire to somewhat greater level of consumption.

and let me commend you on your toyota purchase.  they're quite dependable, aren't they.  (that's a statement, not a question.)


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

roothog said:


> let me just follow up quickly and say that many of us "thinks" its a necessity.
> 
> is it, really, really?  of course not.
> 
> ...




Yup..so far so good.  Got 170k on the ticker and hoping it will make it atleast to 190k before I figure I can afford the wife a newer vehicle and I'll get her old one.

You nailed it though with the "greater level of consumption" comment.  Most want to consume rather than save.  What people don't realize is if they delay their gratification, they would be able to have sooooo much more.

As far as living in caves/begging for alms.  When I was in high school (mid 90s), a good friend of mine...his family lived on $35k/year salary that his dad was making.  Family with 4 kids in Los Angeles area on $35k/year.  Sure, they rented their home...and yes, they got free lunch coupons through the public school.  But they didn't live in a cave and they didn't beg for alms.

Boy, we are getting off topic on this one.  I'm still awaiting an answer from five solas on my question in post #86.


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## fivesolas (Jan 6, 2009)

> Again, from my personal experience, the only curriculum that I had in HS that was contradictory to the Bible was in Science class and in the teaching of evolution. Never had it taught that homosexuality was the norm. Never had it taught that socialism was the key to success. Did I have a spanish teacher who was a lesbian? Yes, but she never ever tried to force her belief system on the student.
> 
> But, let me ask you a basic question. One that I asked Banjo in the last homeschooling thread we had (I think it was a month or two ago). Seeing that I went to a public school for high school, were my parents in sin for sending me there?



Things have changed since you were in high school. They have gotten worse. 

I don't believe your parents followed the Scriptures teaching.


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

> You know, you never answered my question that I posed to you in the last homeschool thread either (the one I asked fivesolas above).



How is this for dodging the question....

I think your parents wanted the best for you.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> I don't believe your parents followed the Scriptures teaching.



So then a follow up........and don't worry, I've got thick skin, so honesty is appreciated.

If they didn't follow the Scriptures teaching, were they in sin?


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## rjcruiser (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> How is this for dodging the question....
> 
> I think your parents wanted the best for you.



Atleast five is willing to answer directly


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Has anyone addressed the fact that the public schools indoctrinate our Covenant children with humanism which is in direct contradiction to the Bible...



AMEN!
I'm not alone!


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## Banjo (Jan 6, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> AMEN!
> I'm not alone!





I like your John Owen quote....


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## StriperAddict (Jan 6, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Now...factor in the fact that most parents are tired after working all day (rightly so) and have their household chores to do after work i.e. grocery shopping, laundry, dinner, dishes, lawn care, homework assistance. How much time do you think these parents can spend attending to the religious training of their children?


 
Good question and maybe I'm straying off topic ( but hay, it is my post )  but I wish I had more time with my Dad outdoors in God's creation growing up.  While I question to this day his spiritual life, I know my heart was tender toward the Lord (long story) and I missed some great times with him.  (I'm trying to make it up now, with both my folks)

Just a suggestion for you Dad's, get a copy of "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge, read it, and consider going on a frontier outing with your boy(s).  The perspective in that book, and the experience will be worth more than the bucks it will take to do it.


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 7, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Seeing that I went to a public school for high school, were my parents in sin for sending me there?



I know this wasn't directed to me but allow me to quote a great resource:
Westminster shorter Catechism
Q. 14. What is sin?
A. Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.
scripture proof:
_Leviticus 5:17. And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity. 
James 4:17. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. 
1 John 3:4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law._

If we knowingly expose our children to indoctrination that belittles God's authority then yes we sin. Sin according to scripture is not something we occasionally do, we are steeped in it, we are consumed by it.
Our role as parents, teachers, adults and authority figures is given in Deuteronomy 6. Any deviation from this or neglect is, as WSC, states sin.

Did my parents sin in sending me to public school  (K through 12)to be exposed to humanistic teaching (man and his reasoning is the answer to our problems)?
Yes
Can they be forgiven for this?
YES!!!!

The reason we need Christ is we sin continuously. Christ saves us even when we neglect our God given roles of protecting our little ones.

Christ saves us from the "big" and "small" sins.

We should also remember Christ's warning:
_Mat 18:6  but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. _


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## rjcruiser (Jan 7, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> Did my parents sin in sending me to public school  (K through 12)to be exposed to humanistic teaching (man and his reasoning is the answer to our problems)?
> Yes
> Can they be forgiven for this?
> YES!!!!



Thanks addicted for answering my question.  Based on your response, I have another one.

Since it is unrepentant sin and was continuing sin (for 6 years in my case 4 years for me, 4 for my brother but we overlapped 2 of those years), are my parents truly saved Christians?

After-all, how can you be a Christian and continue to live in un-repentant sin?


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 7, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Thanks addicted for answering my question.  Based on your response, I have another one.
> 
> Since it is unrepentant sin and was continuing sin (for 6 years in my case 4 years for me, 4 for my brother but we overlapped 2 of those years), are my parents truly saved Christians?
> 
> After-all, how can you be a Christian and continue to live in un-repentant sin?



Well my parents did for 13 years and Christ is their Lord. So if you want to gage sin my parents are worse than yours!

Christ forgives sins based upon his work and his being, see Owen's quote, not upon what we confess. If it is then what about all those sins we commit and know nothing about. Our repentance is itself a work of God.  He moves us to repent of what Christ has already died for.
My sins were forgiven from upon Christ's death even though I was not born until 2000 years later.
That is the beauty and confusion of Christ's work.

We are saved because of Christ, NEVER due to our actions.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 7, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> Well my parents did for 13 years and Christ is their Lord. So if you want to gage sin my parents are worse than yours!
> 
> Christ forgives sins based upon his work and his being, see Owen's quote, not upon what we confess. If it is then what about all those sins we commit and know nothing about. Our repentance is itself a work of God.  He moves us to repent of what Christ has already died for.
> My sins were forgiven from upon Christ's death even though I was not born until 2000 years later.
> ...



Have you told your folks that they were in sin?  If so, then it is no longer an unkown sin.  How can one be saved if they don't turn from their sin?  Isn't that the definition of true repentance?


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 7, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> How can one be saved if they don't turn from their sin?  Isn't that the definition of true repentance?




Hmm I've been trying to figure out how to answer this without it beening as clear as mud.

I believe the issue here is how we view regeneration.
In a nut shell (and probably a really bad one) we are saved by God's work not by ours; therefore turning from sin is a by product of salvation not the act of salvation.

Luther stated that all of life is repentance.  He was referring to the fact that the Christian will be continually turning from sin, not continually being saved.

Here's a link that explains it way better than I can
Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?


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## jason4445 (Jan 7, 2009)

I have known a dozen or more who home schooled their kids. A few it turned out to be a wonderful and intelligently successful venture, but for most it failed terribly.

The ones that succeeded home schooled under the premise that they could provide a better educational experience for their children that a public or private school could.  And is it a costly procedure if done correctly.  Also both the parents of these kids where college educated and most with Masters or higher degrees and were well versed in all subject matters from advanced math to at least one language.

The ones that failed were without exception the ones that did not want their kids to go to a public school for religious reasons, or wanted to protect their kids from some of public school's negative situations.

These parents generally had no more than a highschool education and some had a bit of college.  Of course they went on and on about how great their kids were doing until about junior high to high school level.  Then things started going south quickly.  Then the poor kids had to go into a public high school without learning about things while growing up in the system, and man they had a terrible time.

Home schooling is great if you do it for the right reasons, and you have the ability to teach. And that ability to teach thing includes just tons of knowledge and abilities that most parents do not have.

The main story is when my sons was in the third grade his friend across the street was going to what was considered the best church school in the town and going there for the usual faith based reasons.  His parents when on and on for two years how great the school was and how  much the son was leaning, but the mother started having doubts.  One day she brough her son over and my wife sat our son down and she pointed out things in his book to do and he did them with no troubles. Then the other kids tried to do it and could not.  In the third grade the other kid was barely tasking on a beginning second grade level.  The next year, 4th grade, she sent her son to public schools and he had to start the third grade over, but quickly adapted and turned out to have a good experience.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 7, 2009)

Banjo said:


> The Proverbs are full of warnings about corrupt company...yet many Christians not only allow their children to attend school with corrupt company, but in many (if not most) instances allow a corrupt teacher to influence their children.
> 
> 40+ hours a week





Yep, And if I had it to do all over again I would not allow my children to go to public school because of that.

Way to much bad influence to try to contend with.


If the schools are teaching something that is not in line with what the parenst believe but could also be in direct oppostion to what your are trying to raise your children to believe then why would you send them.


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## leroy (Jan 7, 2009)

what about college, what then? I think small towns at least ours has a pretty good precentage of Christian teachers, this helps out. Sooner or later our kids have got to face the world and its evils we cant shelter them forever. I know a girl in our community who was homeschooled because of the evils of public school she wound up pregnant now shes getting married and having to put off her college its not all good or bad on either side.


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## slightly grayling (Jan 7, 2009)

I send both of mine to private school. Not to be sheltered, but to get a better education.  The school district I live in has dismal elementary and middle schools.  Fortunately the High School is great.  I would like to think my kids excel academically via genetics, but the truth is they have very good teachers and we spend the time and effort stressing the importance of learning.
SG


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## mtnwoman (Jan 8, 2009)

Sad but true, my oldest granddaughter has a slight learning disability. Private Christian schools would not let her in. I had a huge problem with that....'thanks for your compassion...are you sure this is a Christian school?'
My daughter homeschooled her and brought her up 3 grades in 1 year...taking her out of special needs class in public schools really helped. They don't just put the special needs in there they put the bullies and delinquents in there.
My granddaughter is very cute, and she was sexually harrassed by some of the boys...the class is more like a place you put kids that don't fit anywhere else, and you just try to keep them from killing each other...that's it ...that's what we get in public school.

My 7 year old granddaughter is so intimitated in school for being a Christian, that she sits and pulls out all her eyebrows...which is a whole other arena of problems.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 8, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> Hmm I've been trying to figure out how to answer this without it beening as clear as mud.
> 
> I believe the issue here is how we view regeneration.
> In a nut shell (and probably a really bad one) we are saved by God's work not by ours; therefore turning from sin is a by product of salvation not the act of salvation.
> ...




I agree with your statements above.  However, if you continue to commit the same sin over and over, you've got to seriously take a look at your salvation and devotion to Christ.  Romans 6, I John...both of these are good reads on that subject.

What I'm driving at is you, fivesolas and Banjo (she kinda skirted the issue) all condemn public schools based on what you know of it and your experiences.  However, it is possible, although much more difficult, to raise your child up in the ways of the Lord and send them to public school.  My parents did it...and no, they were not in sin for sending me to the public high school.  The private Christian high schools in the area weren't much better.  That is why I stated it above, that making a blanket statement like that is nothing more than legalism.  For you, it is a personal conviction, but when you start to apply that personal conviction to others, it becomes legalism.

You start to make rules and regulations without any wiggle room.  If the Bible verse said, "You must homeschool your kids" I'd agree with you....but it doesn't.  

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one   And no, I'm not an anti-homeschooler....not sure what my kids will do (well, I know they won't go to the public school).  Check back with me in 2 years as my oldest will be in Kindergarten by then


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## dawg2 (Jan 8, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Just like the people who are here after the rapture will get their Christian influence



The what?


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## feathersnantlers (Jan 8, 2009)

*We homeschool*

I have a diabetic son 8 yr old that just wouldn't get the care needed in a public school. Our 6 yr old daugther is doing very well as well. We are sure she would be asked to go on Ritalin. Ain't going to happen on my watch.

We can't afford a private christian school so we homeschool. Our kids are very active outside of church. They go to scouts, sports, and dancing.


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## addictedtodeer (Jan 8, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> What I'm driving at is you, fivesolas and Banjo (she kinda skirted the issue) all condemn public schools based on what you know of it and your experiences.  However, it is possible, although much more difficult, to raise your child up in the ways of the Lord and send them to public school.  My parents did it...and no, they were not in sin for sending me to the public high school.  The private Christian high schools in the area weren't much better.  That is why I stated it above, that making a blanket statement like that is nothing more than legalism.  For you, it is a personal conviction, but when you start to apply that personal conviction to others, it becomes legalism.
> 
> You start to make rules and regulations without any wiggle room.  If the Bible verse said, "You must homeschool your kids" I'd agree with you....but it doesn't.



You have to be careful here because eventually everything will just be personal convictions. We need to hold to truths contained in scripture no matter how uncomfortable they make us.

The Bible does tell us we are to train our children in righteousness. Deuteronomy 6:7 is very convicting to me; how do I diligently teach my children if for 6-7 hours a day they are taught a curriculum that at best lacks God centeredness? Psalm 78 tells me I'm to teach my children the whole law of God, will government school help me in this or hinder it? (yes I am very covenantal)

If one wishes to use government schools then one has to prove that righteousness is taught there. If an individual wishes to use a system that takes God out of education then the onus is on them to prove scripture allows it not the other way around.

I do not think anyone in America will say that government schools teach righteousness or a God centered curriculum;therefore, how does one justify using it and justify obedience to scripture?

It was a struggle my wife and I had to go through and our conclusion led us to decide that government schools are not an option. Yes it is convenient, but I don't find convenience as an excuse anywhere in scripture.  

If Christians disagree that's fine, iron sharpens iron. We must always probe and be willing to gain a new understanding.

I do not wish to offend any but I do have strong convictions.


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## fivesolas (Jan 8, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Have you told your folks that they were in sin?  If so, then it is no longer an unkown sin.  How can one be saved if they don't turn from their sin?  Isn't that the definition of true repentance?



Hey brother, 

My response to your question to me is the same as addicted. 

Is polygamy ok? Most of the patriarchs had more than one wife...Abraham, David, et. Did God endorse it then, and then change His mind? 

My point is that God tolerates things in the lives of His people. Is public, secular, ungodly education His plan for His people? I don't believe so, no. Is it sinful, yes I believe it is. Did my parents fall short of the glory of God by sending me to public schools? Yes, I believe they did. 

Let's not advocate perfectionism in trying to defend our viewpoints. Christians do not need to be sinless in order to be justified by God. We are justified while we are sinners. 

-five


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## StriperAddict (Jan 8, 2009)

Just some facts, FYI:
_____________________

Home schooling popular with more and more Americans Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 1/7/2009 7:00:00 AM



<STORYLEAD>






The president of the National Home Education Research Institute says the state of home schooling in the U.S. remains strong.​</STORYLEAD>


<STORYBODY>According to a recent U.S. government report, approximately 1.5 million home schoolers are found in the country today. But Brian D. Ray, Ph.D. estimates that the current figure is something in the range of 2-to-2.5 million. He says there are two key points in his study of the home-school movement -- its rate of growth, and the reasons behind families' decisions to educate children at home.

According to Ray, the home-school movement has enjoyed an eight-percent growth rate over the last several years, and he sees that growth rate increasing over the coming years. Another reason he gives for the future growth of the home-school movement is that the first "major wave" of home-school graduates are now parents, and a good percentage of them are opting to home school their children.






"And a second key point [in my study] would be that the reasons for home schooling are very fundamental; they have not changed for a long time," he shares. "And the growth in home schooling shows that parents are very concerned about the education of their children -- and the Christian community in particular is realizing the 'biblical-ness' of home-based education."

But Ray adds that home schooling is not just a Christian institution. Although 70 to 75 percent of home schoolers are Christian, he points out that Muslims, agnostics, New Agers, and others choose to educate their children at home as well.

In addition to being the president of the National Home Education Research Institute, Ray is also the author of _The World-Wide Guide to Home Schooling_.
​


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## rjcruiser (Jan 8, 2009)

fivesolas said:


> Hey brother,
> 
> My response to your question to me is the same as addicted.
> 
> ...



I think about the only thing polygamy and public schools have in common is that they start with P.  That is a bit of a stretch.  The bible specifically states that polygamy is a sin.  If the Bible said that Public schooling was specifically a sin, you'd have a good comparison.

I guess we'll agree to disagree...and I'm not an anti-homeschooler person.  I've seen it do a lot of good.  I'm just an anti-homeschool is the only Biblical way guy.  Again, it goes kinda like the drinking or eating threads.  Is drinking a sin.  No.  Is eating a sin.  No.  However, both can cause major issues if you do not watch out.  Is public school a sin.  No, but you must be careful and watch out.


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## PoBoy (Jan 9, 2009)

When it comes to school, I believe in strick academics.  Push hard on what it takes to make a good life in this world.  A strong education makes for a better life.

As far as all the bible thumping, leave that OUT of the schoo day.  Thats what the supper table and Sundays are for.


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