# Ecstacy



## ambush80 (Dec 23, 2018)

Around the 2:16:50 mark Sam says "There are pathological states of spiritual pleasure", in reference to the state of mind of suicide bombers (as told by those whose bombs failed to detonate).  They are in a state of ecstacy prior to detonating their device.  They are in pure rapture in anticipation of Paradise.  What else can make someone feel that way?


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## gemcgrew (Dec 24, 2018)

Checking my trapline.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

Six flags


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## welderguy (Dec 24, 2018)

Relations with the wife.


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## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2018)

> They are in pure rapture in anticipation of Paradise.


Considering their level of commitment and belief, I personally would have to think nothing else could compare.
At least nothing else that wasn't chemically induced.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 24, 2018)

I have seen folks in almost trance-like states of ecstasy many times in small country churches, especially of the Primitive Baptist or Pentecostal and Church of Christ varieties. I mean, completely oblivious to everything going on around them, whooping and hollering (shouting,) speaking in tongues, and wallering around on the floor, jumping over pews, etc. Usually referred to as "the Spirit coming on them."


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

You know how you get that ?? “you cant be serious” question from the non believer when a believer talks about God???? 

The believer has that same ?? “you cant be serious” question when the non believer uses ecstasy and trances as a description of the “spirit coming”. 

As far as what the bombers think.......I’m clueless.


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## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> You know how you get that ?? “you cant be serious” question from the non believer when a believer talks about God????
> 
> The believer has that same ?? “you cant be serious” question when the non believer uses ecstasy and trances as a description of the “spirit coming”.
> 
> As far as what the bombers think.......I’m clueless.




When you say non-believer, do you mean the guys writhing on the floor that Hillbilly mentioned?


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## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> You know how you get that ?? “you cant be serious” question from the non believer when a believer talks about God????
> 
> The believer has that same ?? “you cant be serious” question when the non believer uses ecstasy and trances as a description of the “spirit coming”.
> 
> As far as what the bombers think.......I’m clueless.



Well,  they've told us what they think and feel.  They can only offer as much proof of their experience as any believer.  You have to take their word for it.


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## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2018)

gemcgrew said:


> Checking my trapline.



What's a beaver pelt go for these days?


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## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Considering their level of commitment and belief, I personally would have to think nothing else could compare.
> At least nothing else that wasn't chemically induced.



Sam's talked about the possibility of achieving transcendent states of euphoria with chemicals but notes that they're hit or miss.  He likens it to "strapping a rocket on".  The state induced by religious fervor is more reliable and predictable, maybe even more intense in some ways.


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## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I have seen folks in almost trance-like states of ecstasy many times in small country churches, especially of the Primitive Baptist or Pentecostal and Church of Christ varieties. I mean, completely oblivious to everything going on around them, whooping and hollering (shouting,) speaking in tongues, and wallering around on the floor, jumping over pews, etc. Usually referred to as "the Spirit coming on them."


I don't think its a coincidence that people's level of ecstasy seems to be in direct relation to how their chosen denomination tells them they are "supposed to react".


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Being filled with the holy spirit, or any spirit, always seems to coincide within the confines of the Laws of Physics. Rambling off some tongues, shaking, dropping and flopping are all attention getting but why don't people levitate or  heal(legitimately)someone near them that is truly ill or crippled?

The brain is an extremely powerful and complex organ. It retains everything that a person has ever seen or heard, accessing those things are another story, and it can release powerful chemicals within the body that act stronger than synthetic or artificial drugs. A person MAY suddenly speak French in a heightened state because the brain retained every French word the person ever heard and something caused it to access them for a brief period of time. It is capable of remarkable acts.
But it cannot do things beyond the confines of the laws of physics and outside of those laws is where such things as spirits and gods should operate.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> Being filled with the holy spirit, or any spirit, always seems to coincide within the confines of the Laws of Physics. Rambling off some tongues, shaking, dropping and flopping are all attention getting but why don't people levitate or  heal(legitimately)someone near them that is truly ill or crippled?
> 
> The brain is an extremely powerful and complex organ. It retains everything that a person has ever seen or heard, accessing those things are another story, and it can release powerful chemicals within the body that act stronger than synthetic or artificial drugs. A person MAY suddenly speak French in a heightened state because the brain retained every French word the person ever heard and something caused it to access them for a brief period of time. It is capable of remarkable acts.
> But it cannot do things beyond the confines of the laws of physics and outside of those laws is where such things as spirits and gods should operate.


Non believers would hold more credibility in their arguments if they stick to “I’m not sure”.

And a lot of Christians would be better off doing the same. 

To hear either explain the way you just did reveals the misled perception many have. 

If it helps with your question, the “spirit” isn’t bound to laws of physics.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Well,  they've told us what they think and feel.  They can only offer as much proof of their experience as any believer.  You have to take their word for it.



I guess you’re right Ambush.


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## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Non believers would hold more credibility in their arguments if they stick to “I’m not sure”.
> 
> And a lot of Christians would be better off doing the same.
> 
> ...


"Might be" seems to be your "safe place".
Might be can cover any possibility that you can think of.
Better run and go look in the mirror. It "might be" that you grew a second head while you were typing


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Non believers would hold more credibility in their arguments if they stick to “I’m not sure”.
> 
> And a lot of Christians would be better off doing the same.
> 
> ...


Since you are giving out advice, look into reading and comprehension and Re-read the last sentence of mine that you quoted. 
I stated that a spirit is OUTSIDE of those laws of physics and that is where they should operate 
The only problem with these spirits is that they DON'T. 
If all they have is a stop drop and roll with babbling routine when they "enter"  a human....well those are VERY human things to do.

If all the rest above that doesn't make sense to you, it is not because I have a misled perception. You should research what a brain is capable of along with documented cases, and then proceed from there.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> "Might be" seems to be your "safe place".
> Might be can cover any possibility that you can think of.
> Better run and go look in the mirror. It "might be" that you grew a second head while you were typing


Possibly.......if I’d even used “might be” ?


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> Since you are giving out advice, look into reading and comprehension and Re-read the last sentence of mine that you quoted.
> I stated that a spirit is OUTSIDE of those laws of physics and that is where they should operate
> The only problem with these spirits is that they DON'T.
> If all they have is a stop drop and roll with babbling routine when they "enter"  a human....well those are VERY human things to do.
> ...



Not getting in a battle of words. You don’t like your post condensed so I didn’t ?

As far as “reading comprehension” - I noted that your “question” was addressed.

As far as operation in the physics and seeing folks levitate, etc - You don’t have to believe in a spirit to answer this, but whats a spiritual purpose of that? 

And I would agree that if folks are just bobbling and babbling for a show, that’s what you have, just a show. And that’s all you’d have with levitation.


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## Muldoon (Dec 24, 2018)

PEW FLIPPERS


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Not getting in a battle of words. You don’t like your post condensed so I didn’t ?
> 
> As far as “reading comprehension” - I noted that your “question” was addressed.
> 
> ...


Maybe levitation wouldn't impress you chosen folks, but it would sure do wonders for the doubters and those part time BINO's(believers in name only?
Why conform to physical laws unless you are bound to them?


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> Maybe levitation wouldn't impress you chosen folks, but it would sure do wonders for the doubters and those part time BINO's(believers in name only?
> Why conform to physical laws unless you are bound to them?


I think I stated that spiritual is not bound to the physical. It can work with or without. 

It may do wonders. But is it sincere? How many knock dead chicks do you see with the ole ugly troll that makes you wonder if she’s sincere or gold digging?? 

Honestly, I don’t want to be forced, glammered, ah-had into anything. I prefer to just choose to take part or leave alone.


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> I think I stated that spiritual is not bound to the physical. It can work with or without.
> 
> It may do wonders. But is it sincere? How many knock dead chicks do you see with the ole ugly troll that makes you wonder if she’s sincere or gold digging??
> 
> Honestly, I don’t want to be forced, glammered, ah-had into anything. I prefer to just choose to take part or leave alone.


You did state that spiritual is not bound to physical. 
I agreed that spiritual should not be bound by physical.

But, I can find no legitimate examples of anything spiritual breaking those physical laws. 
Chicks, trolls...God, Spirits, Holy Ghosts are ALWAYS compared to humans and human traits.
I get the feeling this is so because we have no examples that can be attributed to a god/spirit that is anything above or beyond humans and human traits.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> You did state that spiritual is not bound to physical.
> I agreed that spiritual should not be bound by physical.
> 
> But, I can find no legitimate examples of anything spiritual breaking those physical laws.
> ...


I guess from my perspective there’s two ways to look at it;

1. Can, or will God use the physical to prove something to bullethead?? I would say yes, absolutely. I don’t place limitations and find none.

2. Has God attempted this for bullethead and doubt caused bullet to knock it down?? I don't know.

What would you honestly do or say?


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## ambush80 (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> I guess from my perspective there’s two ways to look at it;
> 
> 1. Can, or will God use the physical to prove something to bullethead?? I would say yes, absolutely. I don’t place limitations and find none.
> 
> ...



I've heard many believers, even here, offer some testimony of experiencing an event that defied physics.  Even if they really happened I'm still unconvinced by their reasons for connecting the events to Jesus.


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> I guess from my perspective there’s two ways to look at it;
> 
> 1. Can, or will God use the physical to prove something to bullethead?? I would say yes, absolutely. I don’t place limitations and find none.
> 
> ...


I have said this many times.
If there is such a being as the god described in the bible and it wants my attention or wants me to know of it's existence, by it's very nature as <GOD> ONLY it would know EXACTLY what it would take for me to Notice, Acknowledge and Accept.
By the very description of this biblical god, I would HOPE it knows that I am not easily swayed and would adjust accordingly. If by some chance that god is still using human level parlor tricks to persuade me, I question it's ability.

If anything should happen to persuade me I will tell all who are willing to hear about and apologize to anyone that I have previously doubted. If Jesus visits me, a spirit, a force of another religious figure, an alien from another planet, I see bigfoot, dragons live under my porch, or I am bit by a radioactive spider and I can sling webs...I will surely post.


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> I've heard many believers, even here, offer some testimony of experiencing an event that defied physics.  Even if they really happened I'm still unconvinced by their reasons for connecting the events to Jesus.


Exactly. Many inexplicable events happen. I do believe the events are real but I also believe that they happen all over the world to many different people and many times a specific god is given credit as a way to explain the unexplainable.  Odds are greatly in favor of whatever god that gets the credit is because the person just so happens to be a believer in THAT particular god.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> I've heard many believers, even here, offer some testimony of experiencing an event that defied physics.  Even if they really happened I'm still unconvinced by their reasons for connecting the events to Jesus.


Maybe I’m looking at the whole physics idea, or exactly what it all entails wrong.

I’m thinking about the levitation and such and wondering what purpose it would serve.


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Maybe I’m looking at the whole physics idea, or exactly what it all entails wrong.
> 
> I’m thinking about the levitation and such and wondering what purpose it would serve.


What if you were at another religions ceremony, lets say for a wedding.
And during a part in the ceremony the person in charge says "let the mighty Krandor fill us with spirit and lift up our brothers and sisters who are of the chosen" and then 1/3 in attendance actually raise up and levitate 7 or 8ft off the floor for the time it takes to get through the ceremony and then slowly return down.

Would it impress you? Leave an impact? Make you at least think what the heck did I just witness?? Maybe wonder and check into it for the rest of your life?

Or instead the leader says "let the mighty Krandor fill our chosen with spirit" and 1/3 of them start babbling and twitching and twerking?
I'm guessing you'd probably think they are full of beans and would speak of it only to tell of the farce you witnessed.

Which,  actions regarding an unfamiliar religion and an unfamiliar ceremony would make a greater impact on you?
Would something more "god like" impress you over what you've seen in your own religion?


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## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2018)

Muldoon said:


> PEW FLIPPERS


What is a "pew flipper"?


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## WaltL1 (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Possibly.......if I’d even used “might be” ?


You want non-believers to say "I don't know" because there "might be" and that would make them more credible.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> You want non-believers to say "I don't know" because there "might be" and that would make them more credible.


Not really - what I meant by that was to stick with “I don’t know” rather than attempt to explain with something that really does not describe. I might have butchered that up.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> What if you were at another religions ceremony, lets say for a wedding.
> And during a part in the ceremony the person in charge says "let the mighty Krandor fill us with spirit and lift up our brothers and sisters who are of the chosen" and then 1/3 in attendance actually raise up and levitate 7 or 8ft off the floor for the time it takes to get through the ceremony and then slowly return down.
> 
> Would it impress you? Leave an impact? Make you at least think what the heck did I just witness?? Maybe wonder and check into it for the rest of your life?
> ...



I see your point, I would definitely be impressed, and it would leave an impact.

But for me, I don’t know if it would be a positive impact. And, that’s what I’m referring to with “what’s the spiritual purpose” 

But.........keeping an open mind, if that’s what it takes to convince some, I don’t think I’m in a position to knock it. 

And since it wouldn’t have a positive impact on me, that might be the reason it’s not used for me???


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## bullethead (Dec 24, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> I see your point, I would definitely be impressed, and it would leave an impact.
> 
> But for me, I don’t know if it would be a positive impact. And, that’s what I’m referring to with “what’s the spiritual purpose”
> 
> ...


But how many in attendance are JUST 
 like you??

Have a Merry Christmas Spotlite.


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## Spotlite (Dec 24, 2018)

bullethead said:


> But how many in attendance are JUST
> like you??
> 
> Have a Merry Christmas Spotlite.


Not sure, and Merry Christmas to you to!!


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## SemperFiDawg (Dec 24, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Around the 2:16:50 mark Sam says "There are pathological states of spiritual pleasure", in reference to the state of mind of suicide bombers (as told by those whose bombs failed to detonate).  They are in a state of ecstacy prior to detonating their device.  They are in pure rapture in anticipation of Paradise.  What else can make someone feel that way?



When I was saved I had never heard of the Holy Spirit.  Only looking back do I realized what happened to me, and much of it is still a puzzle.  I hadn't read the Bible, been to very much church, and was totally ignorant to everything scriptural other than the fact that I was asking Christ to save me. 

I was 14 and in the bathroom at church getting ready to be baptized.  I was in a stall in my white tee shirt and fruit of the looms.  This presence "overcame" me for lack of a better term, and when I say "overcame", I mean "OVERCAME"!  It was overpowering, awesome, and I remember being very afraid initially.  Then I realized it wouldn't harm me and I felt a peace overcome me I have never felt before or since.  Then I remember bright light completely engulfing me like a river, and shining through me.   Then my eyes were opened.  It was like a shower curtain was pulled back, or blinders were removed, and everything that represented the material world was gone and I was looking into Heaven and seeing the past, present, and future, but outside the bounds of time.  It was like being in a plane and seeing what was down behind, you, under you, and ahead of you, but being above it all, that's how the past, present and future appeared, and this is the most difficult part to explain.  The past, present and future was not of this world but a Heavenly one where Earth and the material world was present and real, but was more of a backdrop hindered by the constraints of space and time.  In the spiritual sense I was outside of time completely, yet in the physical I was still present.  I distinctly remember looking down to see if I could still see my actual hands, and I could.   It was impressed upon me that I was in the presence of God, and was there because of Christ.  I remembered not wanting it to ever end, then as quickly as it came, it went. This only lasted from a few moments, to a few minutes.  I really don't know.

I had never read the Bible until years afterward, , but when I read the Bible for the first time, especially the New Testament much of it  was of things I had seen in the vision/ revelation in the bathroom.  Even today, after reading the Bible probably 5-6 times and the New Testament probably over 20, sometimes, I will read something that will trigger a memory from that vision. 

That happened over 40 years ago, and I still don't think I fully understand the complete "why" of it all.  I'd like to say that, that instance marked a turning point in my early life and I've been a saint ever since, but that would be a lie.  Most of the following 40 years have been spent testing the patience and love of God.  There's one enduring thing that I can say, if I was asked what impact that vision/revelation had on my life, I have never once doubted the presence of God,Christ, or who exactly Christ is.  I simply can't.  I term it a vision/revelation, but it's the most "real" thing that has ever happened in my life.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 25, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> You know how you get that ?? “you cant be serious” question from the non believer when a believer talks about God????
> 
> The believer has that same ?? “you cant be serious” question when the non believer uses ecstasy and trances as a description of the “spirit coming”.
> 
> As far as what the bombers think.......I’m clueless.


I'm not following you at all. I was raised by a preacher. I spent half of my waking life in church for the first decade and a half of my life. I was a believer. What I am describing is EXACTLY what I have seen in many, many small churches. Pretty much every one I was ever in. And those folks I am describing are some of the most ardent believers you will ever meet. I'm just telling you how they define "getting the spirit." 

It might be different in your big fancy city church were people wear suits and the preacher talks calmly and quietly, but that is not how the people worship in the hollers of Appalachia. I grew up in churches where the preacher ran back and forth, hollering at the top of his lungs, spittle flying from his mouth, and half the congregation would be on their feet shouting at the top of their lungs waving their hands in the air and jumping up and down halfway through the sermon. 

And I went to the "calm" churches were they didn't play with rattlesnakes and drink poison. Those are here too.


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## JustUs4All (Dec 25, 2018)

Merry Christmas to all of y'all.


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## Spotlite (Dec 25, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I'm not following you at all. I was raised by a preacher. I spent half of my waking life in church for the first decade and a half of my life. I was a believer. What I am describing is EXACTLY what I have seen in many, many small churches. Pretty much every one I was ever in. And those folks I am describing are some of the most ardent believers you will ever meet. I'm just telling you how they define "getting the spirit."
> 
> It might be different in your big fancy city church were people wear suits and the preacher talks calmly and quietly, but that is not how the people worship in the hollers of Appalachia. I grew up in churches where the preacher ran back and forth, hollering at the top of his lungs, spittle flying from his mouth, and half the congregation would be on their feet shouting at the top of their lungs waving their hands in the air and jumping up and down halfway through the sermon.
> 
> And I went to the "calm" churches were they didn't play with rattlesnakes and drink poison. Those are here too.


Lol no big fancy church here!! I know what you’re saying, to be clear, I should have noted that those that only do it for a show only had a show and will claim it’s spirit led.

Although we are not a calm, quiet  church, I’ve never seen a rattle snake in church and never fooled with poison and haven’t seen “trances”.......to hear someone say that’s “spirit of God” is strange to me. It’s nothing I’ve ever seen in my 47 years. And I’ve been in plenty back woods foot stomping aisle running tent meetings. And I have walked out of a church where a preacher was talking about a fireball rolling down the aisle and “got on him” and he started the uncontrollable “laughing” and carrying on. You have to discern things and recognize a show when it happens. Foolishness will reveal itself quickly, I’ve seen preachers play on emotions and try to get everyone crying and call it a move of God.


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## Spotlite (Dec 25, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> Merry Christmas to all of y'all.


Same here....Merry Christmas to everyone!


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## SemperFiDawg (Dec 25, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Lol no big fancy church here!! I know what you’re saying, to be clear, I should have noted that those that only do it for a show only had a show and will claim it’s spirit led.
> 
> Although we are not a calm, quiet  church, I’ve never seen a rattle snake in church and never fooled with poison and haven’t seen “trances”.......to hear someone say that’s “spirit of God” is strange to me. It’s nothing I’ve ever seen in my 47 years. And I’ve been in plenty back woods foot stomping aisle running tent meetings. And I have walked out of a church where a preacher was talking about a fireball rolling down the aisle and “got on him” and he started the uncontrollable “laughing” and carrying on. You have to discern things and recognize a show when it happens. Foolishness will reveal itself quickly, I’ve seen preachers play on emotions and try to get everyone crying and call it a move of God.



Yeah, I've seen some crazy stuff at church too.  There was a few years there where I was looking for a church to fit into.  Man, there's some crazy stuff out there.  I've seen flanging, slanging, banging, yelling, screaming, running, cartwheels, ...you name it.  Seen a preacher have everyone stack their wallets and purses in a stack in front of the altar so he could ask God to bless them, the wallets, not the people, stepped over people slain in the spirit on my way out, heard preacher vouch for a book that went against every doctrine in the Bible.  

Went to visit my wife's preacher before we got married just to meet him and introduce myself, only for him to tell me that me and all the other Baptist were going straight to He11.  News to me.

It gets crazy and for someone with a lot of questions and no answers I can understand the "opium of the masses" analogy.  That said, I think if you read the Bible, you can spot the nuts after a bit.  Some are readily apparent and others, you may have to visit for a while before you see the discrepancies.


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## WaltL1 (Dec 25, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> Merry Christmas to all of y'all.


Merry Christmas!


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 25, 2018)

Merry Christmas to all of y'all, too!


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