# The Case For Christ



## Broken Tine (Mar 28, 2017)

The book was great.  
I'm looking forward to the movie...


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## ambush80 (Mar 28, 2017)

I read through Strobel's book at my Mom's house one weekend.  I wasn't convinced.  What parts of it did you find most compelling?  Would you look at a counter argument?

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Christ-Testament-Reverend/dp/1578840058

_"Leading New Testament scholar Robert M. Price has taken umbrage at the cavalier manner in which Rev. Lee Strobel has misrepresented the field of Bible scholarship in his book The Case for Christ." _




"Retro-engineering the argument".


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## Broken Tine (Mar 28, 2017)

*What are the odds?*

I guess the part that most compelled me was where he interviewed the Jewish man that had converted. The mathmatical odds involved when Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah are mind boggling (to my little brain anyway).
And yes, I am open to hearing other views and opinions.


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## ambush80 (Mar 28, 2017)

Broken Tine said:


> I guess the part that most compelled me was where he interviewed the Jewish man that had converted. The mathmatical odds involved when Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah are mind boggling (to my little brain anyway).
> And yes, I am open to hearing other views and opinions.



There have been some really good conversations going on in some of the other threads.  Many of them contain testimony stories in which people link things that happened to them (many not so miraculous) to prayers being answered.  They may come across as mind boggling, too, until you examine them fully.  

Do you know who Nostradamus is?  Here's a start:

https://www.google.com/webhp?ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=nostradamus+propecies+that+have+come+true&*


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## centerpin fan (Mar 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> _"Leading New Testament scholar Robert M. Price has taken umbrage at the cavalier manner in which Rev. Lee Strobel has misrepresented the field of Bible scholarship in his book The Case for Christ." _




_Robert McNair Price (born July 7, 1954) is an American theologian and writer,[4] known for arguing against the existence of a historical Jesus (the Christ myth theory). He taught philosophy and religion at the Johnnie Colemon Theological Seminary.[5] He is a professor of biblical criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute, and the author of a number of books on theology and the historicity of Jesus.

A former Baptist minister, he was the editor of the Journal of Higher Criticism from 1994 until it ceased publication in 2003. He has also written extensively about the Cthulhu Mythos, a "shared universe" created by the writer H. P. Lovecraft.[6] He also co-wrote a book with his wife, Carol Selby Price, Mystic Rhythms: The Philosophical Vision of Rush (1999), on the rock band Rush.

Price is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of 150 writers and scholars who study the historicity of Jesus, the organizer of a Web community for those interested in the history of Christianity,[7] and sits on the advisory board of the Secular Student Alliance.[3] He is a religious skeptic, especially of orthodox Christian beliefs, occasionally describing himself as a Christian atheist_.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Price


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## ambush80 (Mar 28, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> _Robert McNair Price (born July 7, 1954) is an American theologian and writer,[4] known for arguing against the existence of a historical Jesus (the Christ myth theory). He taught philosophy and religion at the Johnnie Colemon Theological Seminary.[5] He is a professor of biblical criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute, and the author of a number of books on theology and the historicity of Jesus.
> 
> A former Baptist minister, he was the editor of the Journal of Higher Criticism from 1994 until it ceased publication in 2003. He has also written extensively about the Cthulhu Mythos, a "shared universe" created by the writer H. P. Lovecraft.[6] He also co-wrote a book with his wife, Carol Selby Price, Mystic Rhythms: The Philosophical Vision of Rush (1999), on the rock band Rush.
> 
> ...



Yeah, right?    

He spends allot of time on this stuff.


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## centerpin fan (Mar 29, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Yeah, right?
> 
> He spends allot of time on this stuff.



Your quote referred to him as a "leading New Testament scholar".  I just thought that needed to be fleshed out a little.


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## ambush80 (Mar 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Your quote referred to him as a "leading New Testament scholar".  I just thought that needed to be fleshed out a little.



That was from Amazon.  It's probably on the back cover of his book.

Attacking the messenger?  Unimpressed with his C.V.?


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 29, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> _Robert McNair Price (born July 7, 1954) is an American theologian and writer,[4] known for arguing against the existence of a historical Jesus (the Christ myth theory). He taught philosophy and religion at the Johnnie Colemon Theological Seminary.[5] He is a professor of biblical criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute, and the author of a number of books on theology and the historicity of Jesus.
> 
> A former Baptist minister, he was the editor of the Journal of Higher Criticism from 1994 until it ceased publication in 2003. He has also written extensively about the Cthulhu Mythos, a "shared universe" created by the writer H. P. Lovecraft.[6] He also co-wrote a book with his wife, Carol Selby Price, Mystic Rhythms: The Philosophical Vision of Rush (1999), on the rock band Rush.
> 
> ...



I stopped reading at 'Jesus Seminar'.  Their mission: spreading lies.  Credibility =0
Nice fleshing.


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 29, 2017)

Broken Tine said:


> The book was great.
> I'm looking forward to the movie...



I thought the book was great also.  Not gonna be real well received here though.  AAs don't like a story in which one of their own goes rogue and actually analyzes the evidence from an objective standpoint and comes to the only logical conclusion.  No Sir.  No place for that in the Doctrine of Intellectual Dishonesty.


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## 660griz (Mar 29, 2017)

Excellent article from a fellow that once didn't believe in unicorns.
The Case for the Unicorn


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## centerpin fan (Mar 29, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> That was from Amazon.  It's probably on the back cover of his book.
> 
> Attacking the messenger?  Unimpressed with his C.V.?



I just believe in full disclosure.


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## WaltL1 (Mar 29, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I thought the book was great also.  Not gonna be real well received here though.  AAs don't like a story in which one of their own goes rogue and actually analyzes the evidence from an objective standpoint and comes to the only logical conclusion.  No Sir.  No place for that in the Doctrine of Intellectual Dishonesty.


I'm curious -
Do you feel better about yourself and your beliefs when you make ridiculous statements like this?
I know you are capable of intelligent thought but sometimes your train REALLY goes off the rails.


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## bullethead (Mar 29, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm curious -
> Do you feel better about yourself and your beliefs when you make ridiculous statements like this?
> I know you are capable of intelligent thought but sometimes your train REALLY goes off the rails.


He has never put forth a valid argument in defense of his religious claims so baseless and untrue insults is all he has left. 
He can't back them up either and it's probably the reason he pops in, hurls em, and then leaves as quickly when he is asked to back them up. He thinks we forget in between.
Lets call the pattern Intellectually Lazy.


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 30, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm curious -
> Do you feel better about yourself and your beliefs when you make ridiculous statements like this?
> I know you are capable of intelligent thought but sometimes your train REALLY goes off the rails.



Have you read the book, and have you seen the silly comments on this thread from some of the AAs?


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## WaltL1 (Mar 30, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Have you read the book, and have you seen the silly comments on this thread from some of the AAs?





> Have you read the book,


Do I need to? You've already told me what I'm going to think about it.


> have you seen the silly comments


Yes there are certainly one or two.


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## 660griz (Mar 30, 2017)

Evidence?
"Strobel fails to interview a single skeptic - atheist or of some belief besides Evangelical Christianity."
"The real intent of the book is to provide some semi-intellectual basis for believing the claims of Christianity, and that is perhaps the only audience that will find the case compelling."
Objective?
"It is certainly not unheard of for a spouse to change his/her religion in accordance with their partner. Did Strobel really want to study Christianity to learn about the shifts in his wife's behavior or did he want to find a reason to stay with the woman he loves?"
---Taylor Carr

Just like "God is Not Dead", these type are only good for the Christian masses that love a good pep rally. 

Because for them, "When an “award-winning” atheist journalist sets out to disprove Christianity once and for all, and he winds up a convinced, faithful Christian believer — case closed!"
---Kyle Roberts

Here is a good read, for some.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/The_Case_For_Christ

Interestingly, I found this:
"The book is intellectually dishonest."


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 31, 2017)

660griz said:


> Evidence?
> "Strobel fails to interview a single skeptic - atheist or of some belief besides Evangelical Christianity."



Uhhhhhh.  Forgive me for pointing out the obvious.  Guess someone missed the point in their haste to refute but *Strobel WAS the skeptic-atheist who was attempting to disprove the case for Christ*.  Again, it only comes with reading the actual book.


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## 660griz (Mar 31, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Guess someone missed the point in their haste to refute but *Strobel WAS the skeptic-atheist who was attempting to disprove the case for Christ*.  Again, it only comes with reading the actual book.



Not when he wrote the book. Trust me, I didn't miss the point. Any of them. You have to read my post to know I knew he was a so called atheist. A not very informed atheist but...


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 31, 2017)

660griz said:


> Not when he wrote the book. Trust me, I didn't miss the point. Any of them. You have to read my post to know I knew he was a so called atheist. A not very informed atheist but...



Hey, whatever excuse you need.  The more absurd the better.


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## 660griz (Mar 31, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Hey, whatever excuse you need.  The more absurd the better.



Thanks. That really means a lot coming from a Bible believer.


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## smokey30725 (Mar 31, 2017)

660griz said:


> Not when he wrote the book. Trust me, I didn't miss the point. Any of them. You have to read my post to know I knew he was a so called atheist. A not very informed atheist but...



I'm asking this out of a genuine desire to understand and not sarcasm. Where you reference that he was a "so-called atheist" and a "not very informed atheist", what all was it that he was lacking in his former non-believing stance on spirituality? Just curious and no disrespect intended.


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## SemperFiDawg (Mar 31, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Do I need to? You've already told me what I'm going to think about it.
> 
> Yes there are certainly one or two.



Looking back, as a young man I guess I felt I needed to voice an opinion on every subject.  As and older man I find that was misguided at best and the older I get the less I find the need to opine (or maybe my knowledge base is just shrinking.) As to whether you should read the book, I wouldn't opine on it if I hadn't.   I realize you haven't, and your comment was a comment r/t me.   That's fine.  It's fair.  What I have a problem with is the off point ad hominem attacks on an author over a book they have obviously never read.

As to the your last s sentence.  Touché.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 2, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> _Robert McNair Price (born July 7, 1954) is an American theologian and writer,[4] known for arguing against the existence of a historical Jesus (the Christ myth theory). He taught philosophy and religion at the Johnnie Colemon Theological Seminary.[5] He is a professor of biblical criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute, and the author of a number of books on theology and the historicity of Jesus.
> 
> A former Baptist minister, he was the editor of the Journal of Higher Criticism from 1994 until it ceased publication in 2003. He has also written extensively about the Cthulhu Mythos, a "shared universe" created by the writer H. P. Lovecraft.[6] He also co-wrote a book with his wife, Carol Selby Price, Mystic Rhythms: The Philosophical Vision of Rush (1999), on the rock band Rush.
> 
> ...




I understand that many of you don't believe in Christ, I appreciate that you don't want to, and can see why you can't, but I have a hard time taking anyone who denies the historicity of Christ seriously. I think the evidence that he existed as a person is pretty overwhelming.


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## 660griz (Apr 3, 2017)

smokey30725 said:


> I'm asking this out of a genuine desire to understand and not sarcasm. Where you reference that he was a "so-called atheist" and a "not very informed atheist", what all was it that he was lacking in his former non-believing stance on spirituality? Just curious and no disrespect intended.



This is well known ploy to sell books...to Christians. 

Strobel, himself, admitted he was not a well informed atheist. ""I had read just enough philosophy and history to find support for my skepticism - a fact here, a scientific theory there, a pithy quote, a clever argument" 


Ever heard of the book "A Day in H3!!"? 
Author was another supposed atheist that converted. 


> Christian Post: Can you tell us about your life before the accident? Did you believe in God?
> 
> Botsford: No, I did not believe in God. I knew God existed but I didn’t have a relationship with His son. During college I turned my back; I was my own boss kind of thing.


Huh?


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## WaltL1 (Apr 3, 2017)

jmharris23 said:


> I understand that many of you don't believe in Christ, I appreciate that you don't want to, and can see why you can't, but I have a hard time taking anyone who denies the historicity of Christ seriously. I think the evidence that he existed as a person is pretty overwhelming.


I'm being lazy for not finding this out myself but -
Is he denying the existence of a man referred to as Jesus who preached etc... or
Is he denying the whole shebang? Jesus never existed, the ENTIRE story is made up etc?


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## jmharris23 (Apr 4, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm being lazy for not finding this out myself but -
> Is he denying the existence of a man referred to as Jesus who preached etc... or
> Is he denying the whole shebang? Jesus never existed, the ENTIRE story is made up etc?



From what I read he denies the existence of a Jesus period....that he was completely made up.


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## ambush80 (Apr 5, 2017)

jmharris23 said:


> From what I read he denies the existence of a Jesus period....that he was completely made up.



As I understand it, he offers "Jesus" as a possible amalgam of personalities and individuals.  That's a common concept among theologians.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> As I understand it, he offers "Jesus" as a possible amalgam of personalities and individuals.  That's a common concept among theologians.



Actually, its not that common. 

"In modern scholarship, the Christ Myth Theory is a fringe theory, and is accepted by only a small number of academics. The Christ myth theory contradicts the mainstream historical view, which is that while the gospels include many mythical or legendary elements, these are religious elaborations added to the biography of a historical Jesus who did live in 1st-century Roman Palestine,[52][53][54][55][56][57][58] was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[59][60][61]


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## ambush80 (Apr 5, 2017)

jmharris23 said:


> Actually, its not that common.
> 
> "In modern scholarship, the Christ Myth Theory is a fringe theory, and is accepted by only a small number of academics. The Christ myth theory contradicts the mainstream historical view, which is that while the gospels include many mythical or legendary elements, these are religious elaborations added to the biography of a historical Jesus who did live in 1st-century Roman Palestine,[52][53][54][55][56][57][58] was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[59][60][61]



Where's that from?  I'd like to read more.


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## jmharris23 (Apr 5, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Where's that from?  I'd like to read more.



Wikipedia for that is worth 

As well as this 

https://www.quora.com/Do-credible-h...-on-a-cross-by-Pilate-Roman-governor-of-Judea


I haven't done a ton of scholarly research on the Christ myth, but just from what little looking into it I have done, it doesn't seem to have a ton of proponents.

I do know that Bart Ehrman refutes it.


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## Broken Tine (Apr 13, 2017)

Understandably, this thread went off the rails a little.  Just curious if any of you guys have seen the movie yet?  What did you think?  Comparable to the book?  I'm planning on going with some friends to see it Monday night (4/17).


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## 660griz (Apr 13, 2017)

Broken Tine said:


> Understandably, this thread went off the rails a little.  Just curious if any of you guys have seen the movie yet?  What did you think?  Comparable to the book?  I'm planning on going with some friends to see it Monday night (4/17).



Yes, it is understandable.
Maybe try http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=131


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## ambush80 (Apr 13, 2017)

Broken Tine said:


> Understandably, this thread went off the rails a little.  Just curious if any of you guys have seen the movie yet?  What did you think?  Comparable to the book?  I'm planning on going with some friends to see it Monday night (4/17).



I might watch the movie if it makes it to Redbox some day.  I was uncompelled by the book nor by the credibility of the author.


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