# Hound doggers this weekend!



## Christian hughey

Good luck, keep yourselves and them hounds safe out there. Let us know how it goes. I hate that bow season this year was reduced to one very hot, full moon weekend but I am very interested to see how your hunt pans out. Opening weekend was hot and unforgiving, had lots of good sign but no sight of a bear all weekend. Didn't notice any kills on here until this week when the weather finally cooled a bit. Hopefully I can get back up soon, some very nice kills so far by the few vets on here.


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## Hillbilly stalker

Yep, good luck to all this hunt. Be safe and share some good stories and pictures with us ! Get treed !


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## deerpoacher1970

Probably not going to be very good,too hot and dry and if they ain't careful they will be some dogs have heat strokes I have seen it happen.


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## jbogg

As hot as it has been and will continue to be for the next two weeks I would guess most dog hunters would be completely fine with this hunt being moved back a month or so. Better for everyone.


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## tree cutter 08

I hope they kill a bunch. I've heard more excitement about being able to run bears that have never been dogged rather than the kill season. Prove me wrong and kill a bunch instead going just to hear the hounds run! I'd like to see every person kill one.


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## twincedargap

Hot and dry are the enemy of doggers from a difficulty scent/tracking standpoint and an exertion standpoint, for both dogs and houndsman. They’re going to have a rough go.


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## Rabun

I'm not a big fan of this hunt but hope hope men and hounds have some luck and stay safe. I don't wish ill will on anyone...man nor beast.  Good luck to those partaking. Gonna be a hot one!


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## goshenmountainman

Its so dry that unless they get on a good hot track it will be difficult for the dogs to track well. But if they find a good stand of whiteoaks dropping it will sound wonderful on them big hills. Ain't nothing sounds as sweet as a pack of hounds doing what they do best. I ain't never been bear hunting with dogs, but I have some fine black and tans that I coon hunt with, and I love to hear them run.


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## greg_n_clayton

goshenmountainman said:


> Its so dry that unless they get on a good hot track it will be difficult for the dogs to track well. But if they find a good stand of whiteoaks dropping it will sound wonderful on them big hills. Ain't nothing sounds as sweet as a pack of hounds doing what they do best. I ain't never been bear hunting with dogs, but I have some fine black and tans that I coon hunt with, and I love to hear them run.


Dang neighbor, we need to do something about the never run a bear !

On another note, I don't know about the road system on those WMAs, but most bear hunters have a strike dog that can wind a bear a long way off from the top of their dog box.


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## Buckman18

I didnt get drawed, but a buddy of mine from NC did so I get to join in the fun. Ive been bowhunting and gun hunting the refuge since 9/14. Been seeing bears nearly every trip out. Rattlers also. Zero deer.

Most of those bears have never been dogged. Should be able to rig the first couple days. After that we will comb the white oaks and spring heads deeper in. Its going to be a blood bath.


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## Tio Hey Seuss

I ran into a couple dudes rigging with a blue tick this morning. They said they were scouting for the dog hunt. I think the dry ground and low humidity are gonna make it tough. They said they hadn't had a strike yet.


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## Buckman18

I helped my buddies set up camp today (i live close so im sleeping at home). TN and NC tags everywhere, and probably 50 hounds tied up in the low gap campground alone. There is a leisure camper with kayaks there surrounded by hounds, lol. Everyone is concerned that there are too many hunters and too many hounds for the size of the wma and interference is inevitable. I was the only GA tag around. Ill update the experience tomorrow with tale and pics.


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## livinoutdoors

Round of beers on me if they run em through downtown helen! With pics!


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## brownitisdown

We ga Hunter must not count in dnr eyes when it comes to the dog bear hunt sound like they want out of state money


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## Killer Kyle

brownitisdown said:


> We ga Hunter must not count in dnr eyes when it comes to the dog bear hunt sound like they want out of state money


The draw was randomly selected. Both out of state and resident sportsmen had an equal chance in the draw.


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## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> I helped my buddies set up camp today (i live close so im sleeping at home). TN and NC tags everywhere, and probably 50 hounds tied up in the low gap campground alone. There is a leisure camper with kayaks there surrounded by hounds, lol. Everyone is concerned that there are too many hunters and too many hounds for the size of the wma and interference is inevitable. I was the only GA tag around. Ill update the experience tomorrow with tale and pics.


It is sad that out of state hunters get a crack at it before residents do, makes me very disappointed in our system. But good luck out there anyways. Ready to hear a good story about your experience. Hope you guys bag a big one.


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## brownitisdown

Killer Kyle said:


> The draw was randomly selected. Both out of state and resident sportsmen had an equal chance in the draw.


But it should be ga Hunter first before out state Hunter


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## brownitisdown

Christian hughey said:


> It is sad that out of state hunters get a crack at it before residents do, makes me very disappointed in our system. But good luck out there anyways. Ready to hear a good story about your experience. Hope you guys bag a big one.


Yes it is sad that our state Hunter didn't get first crack at it our state system need to be improved for the ga Hunter


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## Raylander

brownitisdown said:


> We ga Hunter must not count in dnr eyes when it comes to the dog bear hunt sound like they want out of state money



I believe Helen Keller saw that coming..

It should be resident only. I think it is an absolute shame that the folks that have fought so hard for years to run bears in there home state aren’t the first batters up.


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## Christian hughey

worleyburd86 said:


> I believe Helen Keller saw that coming..
> 
> It should be resident only. I think it is an absolute shame that the folks that have fought so hard for years to run bears in there home state aren’t the first batters up.


Just bothers me that buckman is the only known Ga hunter and he got an invite by an out of state party. I agree that this need to be a resident hunt and wheres our spring season, I'm sure we have just as much support as the doggers.


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## tree cutter 08

I might go to top of the mountain to hear the races. May take the popcorn.


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## gobbleinwoods

Buckman18 said:


> I helped my buddies set up camp today (i live close so im sleeping at home). TN and NC tags everywhere, and probably 50 hounds tied up in the low gap campground alone. There is a leisure camper with kayaks there surrounded by hounds, lol. Everyone is concerned that there are too many hunters and too many hounds for the size of the wma and interference is inevitable. I was the only GA tag around. Ill update the experience tomorrow with tale and pics.





Killer Kyle said:


> The draw was randomly selected. Both out of state and resident sportsmen had an equal chance in the draw.



Random drawing my eye.  And I am not a dog hunter except of quail and pheasants.


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## Gator89

It will be interesting to see what kind of feedback the DNR gets from the anti 's in the runup to the next dog hunt.

Wisconsin has a very dedicated group of bear doggers, the anti's that move in to bear country fuss about all the racket the dogs make during the training and then the hunting season. I bought preference points, but did not live there long enough to use them. If you draw a tag, you can find a group to hunt with.


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## strothershwacker

So every person in the party has to have a big game stamp? I know the kids don't but anyone of age assisting in the hunts got 1? That's a lot of $, especially for the non-residents!


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## brownitisdown

They are thinning the bears out on Chattahoochee wma done been getting pic are from the few people that know is hunting it


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## greg_n_clayton

brownitisdown said:


> They are thinning the bears out on Chattahoochee wma done been getting pic are from the few people that know is hunting it


Yep. I am hearing the same thang.


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## brownitisdown

They also saying to many people and to many dogs to


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## Joe Brandon

I have been getting some pics as well and yes the bear population is taking a small hit today. It's a bad day to be a bear at the hooch! I just hope some come back by the Oct hunt.


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## greg_n_clayton

Buddy of mine just posted to facebook. His was the first on the scales this morning.  330#


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## The mtn man

I have seen some pics as well. Not sure what the body count will be, i doubt it will be as high as some think, alot of game within the WMA will probably disperse for a few days, mainly hogs and bears, but it will be back.


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## Joe Brandon

The mtn man said:


> I have seen some pics as well. Not sure what the body count will be, i doubt it will be as high as some think, alot of game within the WMA will probably disperse for a few days, mainly hogs and bears, but it will be back.


How long do you think after this hunt before the bears will come back in to the area?


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## brownitisdown

I heard it take good while before the bears will be back but I don't know that what the dogs Hunter told a friend of mine up there hunting


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## Top of Georgia

Ok they trap one in hiawassee on monday and take it to dawson forest and it back on saturday get around pretty good


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## greg_n_clayton

Top of Georgia said:


> Ok they trap one in hiawassee on monday and take it to dawson forest and it back on saturday get around pretty good


Oh yeah. They will be back shortly  !


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## strothershwacker

I heard that Snoop Dogg was there.


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## greg_n_clayton

Dang, another one 385# ! They are on  Chestatee. They said there was 3 or 4 no shows to the mandatory meeting !


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## tree cutter 08

Talking about how long it will take for them to be back, not long. I ran cams all summer in one area. Lots and lots of regular bear pics. Stopped getting them August 2nd for about a month. That was during training season. By the time bow season rolled around it's covered up with bears again. No problem stalking them with a bow. It was obvious that they went deeper while the dogs were running but went back to normal patterns once they quit. Just a observation I noticed this year.


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## humdandy

The dead ones won't come back.


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## NCMTNHunter

humdandy said:


> The dead ones won't come back.



Nope. And the ones that aren’t killed won’t leave. They might change their habits but they won’t go anywhere.


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## Buckman18

As expected, the action was fast yesterday. I hunted with my group until about 1:00, then had things to do at home. The pics arent great, but on the first bear our dogs joined forces with a pack from Rabun County and treed a young butterball bear. Team Rabun shot this one out. The other one from our team was in a very difficult place and i didnt get good enough pics to post, and another friends team also killed a bear yesterday morning as well. I know of 7 tagged bears as of late yesterday.


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## Hillbilly stalker

Nice bear !


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## Christian hughey

Dang ol buckman, I knew he would have a story to tell after all said and done good job sir. Hopefully yall left one or two for me!!


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## Buckman18

Christian hughey said:


> Dang ol buckman, I knew he would have a story to tell after all said and done good job sir. Hopefully yall left one or two for me!!



I highly doubt ill shoot one on this hunt, im just enjoying hanging out with my friends showing them around and watching the dogs. Im probably gonna save my 2nd tag for the rest of bow season or rifle season. I know where a couple of heavyweights have been hanging on the Swallow Creek WMA and the NF, and would like to challenge them with my crossbow.

But if i dont fill my 2nd tag, i dont really care in all honesty.  To me, bear meat is like turnip greens. I like it but a little goes a long way. I have some friends that love it, and i give a lot of it to them. My wife doesnt like it at all. Im ready to start deer hunting.


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## greg_n_clayton

Buckman18 said:


> As expected, the action was fast yesterday. I hunted with my group until about 1:00, then had things to do at home. The pics arent great, but on the first bear our dogs joined forces with a pack from Rabun County and treed a young butterball bear. Team Rabun shot this one out. The other one from our team was in a very difficult place and i didnt get good enough pics to post, and another friends team also killed a bear yesterday morning as well. I know of 7 tagged bears as of late yesterday.
> View attachment 984814
> 
> View attachment 984816


Running bear with dogs here in Rabun County is very popular and the interest is increasing  ! Lots of these guys will tree 3 and be back home by lunch ! There is a lot of  excellent bear dogs around ! My health won't let me go deep to em anymore, but sure enjoy listening to em work !


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## northgeorgiasportsman

I haven't gotten the full report, and probably won't until tonight, but there's a boy at my church (9 year old) that got his first bear yesterday underneath a pack of Clay county dogs on the Chattahoochee.


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## Buckman18

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> I haven't gotten the full report, and probably won't until tonight, but there's a boy at my church (9 year old) that got his first bear yesterday underneath a pack of Clay county dogs on the Chattahoochee.




This is him. Part of the group im in. He is excited about getting a skull mount. He was pumped!


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## northgeorgiasportsman

That's our boy!  Did y'all get on any more today?


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## ddd-shooter

Good to see them hitting the dirt! Congratulations to everyone!


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## Buckman18

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> That's our boy!  Did y'all get on any more today?



I didnt go with them today, its my dads birthday. When he got service he txt that they got 2 more today, but i dont have any details.


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## northgeorgiasportsman

Awesome!


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## Christian hughey

If all the teams did as well, that's a big dent in the population for that wma. Congratulations to all. Maybe next season a few residents will get a go at it.


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## strothershwacker

Cut 'em all jack!


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## KyDawg

Bear hunting with dogs sounds enjoyable to me. I just love hearing hounds do what they are born to do, and that is trail and chase game and letting you know how it is going.


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## Mark K

Should help the deer population everyone is complaining about. Congrats to ALL the hunters.


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## northgeorgiasportsman

Buckman18 said:


> I didnt go with them today, its my dads birthday. When he got service he txt that they got 2 more today, but i dont have any details.



Tonight at church, he said they killed 4 more today.  And someone had a big 'un bayed in the creek waiting on a kid to show up and shoot it.


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## Buckman18

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Tonight at church, he said they killed 4 more today.  And someone had a big 'un bayed in the creek waiting on a kid to show up and shoot it.



They are taking no prisoners on this hunt. I knew there was a good reason we were all friends.


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## Mark K

Not a bear hunter or actually care anything about it, but it appears there’s a healthy population of bears in them ther’ hills!


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## greg_n_clayton

Mark K said:


> Not a bear hunter or actually care anything about it, but it appears there’s a healthy population of bears in them ther’ hills!


And that area compared to the amount of area inhabited by them is only a drop in the bucket ! Like I posted in the past, up in the Sky Valley area, they break into people's homes and eat their tater chips sitting in the kitchen floor !


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## greg_n_clayton

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Tonight at church, he said they killed 4 more today.  And someone had a big 'un bayed in the creek waiting on a kid to show up and shoot it.


Most of the bear hunters I know that pay the price to dog hunt SC do the same thing for the young people.


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## strothershwacker

I'm glad everyone's having a good time and killin all em bears and all. Next year we can open all our WMAs to it. Who knows we might even get some doggers out of west Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma and everywhere in between. Boy at'd be nice to  let em run cohutta, rich man, John's & even Pigeon. Us Georgians could meet up at the check stations and provide refreshments for em all! Maybe give each participating state it's own week and just do away with bowseason.


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## Buckman18

strothershwacker said:


> I'm glad everyone's having a good time and killin all em bears and all. Next year we can open all our WMAs to it. Who knows we might even get some doggers out of west Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma and everywhere in between. Boy at'd be nice to  let em run cohutta, rich man, John's & even Pigeon. Us Georgians could meet up at the check stations and provide refreshments for em all! Maybe give each participating state it's own week and just do away with bowseason.



Maybe this will be a new 'special project' for Mr. Bowers to work on... Maybe he can bake them some cookies also.

Im glad some of my friends are having a good time, and im having a good time, but whoever put this hunt together is a big dummy. Im fairly certain whoever it was has never had any experience dogging bears, rabbits, or chipmunks....

First of all, there are way, Way, WAY too many hunters and hounds... Too much interference going on, even though i havent heard of tempers flaring as of yet.

Secondly, it's very hot. If this hunt took place in later October or November, itd be better on the dogs and hunters and meat.

Third, it is just not right that non residents get picked over residents. My application should be prioritized over a non residents every time.

Fourth, there is a massacre going on as far as the kill total. The vast majority of archery and rifle hunters who hunt chattahoochee are there for a chance at a bear. The State has done such a pitiful job managing the deer there are very few to hunt. If there are too many bears killed and those hunters lose interest, then what is the point in keeping chattahoochee in the wma system, spending all that money on plots, roads, and payroll? Lets hope they didnt screw up the bears like they have the deer. We shall see.

Fifth, if hound hunters get the gates opened for them, why are they closed for the archery hunters? And can someone explain why in Helen is this hunt taking place during archery season?


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## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> Maybe this will be a new 'special project' for Mr. Bowers to work on... Maybe he can bake them some cookies also.
> 
> Im glad some of my friends are having a good time, and im having a good time, but whoever put this hunt together is a big dummy. Im fairly certain whoever it was has never had any experience dogging bears, rabbits, or chipmunks....
> 
> First of all, there are way, Way, WAY too many hunters and hounds... Too much interference going on, even though i havent heard of tempers flaring as of yet.
> 
> Secondly, it's very hot. If this hunt took place in later October or November, itd be better on the dogs and hunters and meat.
> 
> Third, it is just not right that non residents get picked over residents. My application should be prioritized over a non residents every time.
> 
> Fourth, there is a massacre going on as far as the kill total. The vast majority of archery and rifle hunters who hunt chattahoochee are there for a chance at a bear. The State has done such a pitiful job managing the deer there are very few to hunt. If there are too many bears killed and those hunters lose interest, then what is the point in keeping chattahoochee in the wma system, spending all that money on plots, roads, and payroll? Lets hope they didnt screw up the bears like they have the deer. We shall see.


I agree, bear has become one of my favorite big game animals to persue. Ga has not done a very good job and turned their backs on its residents for a dollar. Unfortunately that's our government for ya. I honestly dont think hunting the hooch will ever be the same.


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## Buckman18

Christian hughey said:


> I honestly dont think hunting the hooch will ever be the same.



My attitude on bow hunting hooch going forward is 'wait and see.' Who knows, maybe itll still be ok? Maybe it wont? If they insisted on having a dog hunt in the middle of archery season, seems like the old Lake Burton WMA boundary wouldve been a better test area instead of a popular wma with a loyal following? Im up here in Burton today and have 12,000 acres to myself. Bear sign too.


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## humdandy

Buckman18 said:


> My attitude on bow hunting hooch going forward is 'wait and see.' Who knows, maybe itll still be ok? Maybe it wont? If they insisted on having a dog hunt in the middle of archery season, seems like the old Lake Burton WMA boundary wouldve been a better test area instead of a popular wma with a loyal following? Im up here in Burton today and have 12,000 acres to myself. Bear sign too.



I know somebody else was there today.........you are not alone....


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## ddd-shooter

Buckman18 said:


> Maybe this will be a new 'special project' for Mr. Bowers to work on... Maybe he can bake them some cookies also.
> 
> Im glad some of my friends are having a good time, and im having a good time, but whoever put this hunt together is a big dummy. Im fairly certain whoever it was has never had any experience dogging bears, rabbits, or chipmunks....
> 
> First of all, there are way, Way, WAY too many hunters and hounds... Too much interference going on, even though i havent heard of tempers flaring as of yet.
> 
> Secondly, it's very hot. If this hunt took place in later October or November, itd be better on the dogs and hunters and meat.
> 
> Third, it is just not right that non residents get picked over residents. My application should be prioritized over a non residents every time.
> 
> Fourth, there is a massacre going on as far as the kill total. The vast majority of archery and rifle hunters who hunt chattahoochee are there for a chance at a bear. The State has done such a pitiful job managing the deer there are very few to hunt. If there are too many bears killed and those hunters lose interest, then what is the point in keeping chattahoochee in the wma system, spending all that money on plots, roads, and payroll? Lets hope they didnt screw up the bears like they have the deer. We shall see.
> 
> Fifth, if hound hunters get the gates opened for them, why are they closed for the archery hunters? And can someone explain why in Helen is this hunt taking place during archery season?



Agree with all the points. But number 5 is what really takes the cake. Either open the roads for all, or keep them closed for all. Do you know how many miles of perfectly good roads I've had to walk in these mountains? And then some guy gets to drive right down the road?
THAT'S RIDICULOUS!


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## Christian hughey

ddd-shooter said:


> Agree with all the points. But number 5 is what just changed my mind. What a load of crap. Either open the roads for all, or keep them closed for all. Do you know how many miles of perfectly good roads I've had to walk in these mountains? And then some guy gets to drive right down the road?
> THAT'S RIDICULOUS!


I have made that point dont know how many times. They make it hard on the bow hunters for sure. I was real surprised last year when an area I had to walk miles to during bow season was open on the gun hunt with people flooding in. Why wouldn't you keep gates closed to allow more elbow room during the gun hunt but close the gates when there are maybe 2 people in the area bow hunting stupidest thing I've seen.


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## goshenmountainman

humdandy said:


> I know somebody else was there today.........you are not alone....


Yep, Me too. And I bet you didn't see my ride either... I have gotten wiley in my older age!!


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## brownitisdown

Me too it was me I know we all are hunting the same road


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## strothershwacker

The main goal of this hunt is to see if it'll generate more revenue. If they expand these dog opportunities across North Georgia they can sale piles of non-resident licenses to Tennessee & North Carolina doggers. Every DNR meeting I've attended ended with Mr.Bowers talking about $. The resident bowhunter market is tapped out. So the search for a new $ generating market is in order. I'd pay another license fee increase to help alleviate the financial burdens DNR is faced with. How bout a separate bear tag purchase? Be not deceived by smoke & mirror biology talk. It's all about the MONEY.


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## splatek

strothershwacker said:


> The main goal of this hunt is to see if it'll generate more revenue. If they expand these dog opportunities across North Georgia they can sale piles of non-resident licenses to Tennessee & North Carolina doggers. Every DNR meeting I've attended ended with Mr.Bowers talking about $. The resident bowhunter market is tapped out. So the search for a new $ generating market is in order. I'd pay another license fee increase to help alleviate the financial burdens DNR is faced with. How bout a separate bear tag purchase? Be not deceived by smoke & mirror biology talk. It's all about the MONEY.



For someone very new to the game, like me, I hate to hear that sentiment and hope that it's partly inflammatory... but my realist hat suggests it's probably more truth than fiction.


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## Bullochcountyhunter

Christian hughey said:


> I have made that point dont know how many times. They make it hard on the bow hunters for sure. I was real surprised last year when an area I had to walk miles to during bow season was open on the gun hunt with people flooding in. Why wouldn't you keep gates closed to allow more elbow room during the gun hunt but close the gates when there are maybe 2 people in the area bow hunting stupidest thing I've seen.


The powers that be make some of the dumbest choices I've ever seen. Several local wmas down here get nothing done to them. No food plots, roads are horrible and some on one were finally mowed for the first time in 3 years. It was to the point you had to really be careful as to where to park, pull of the hard pack and might be a 5 foot drop that you can't see because the weeds are 10 feet tall. But the local game manager is riding around in a a brand new f450, four door 4wd flat bed....betcha it's never been worked out of....


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## Raylander

Cant do away with bow season.. Just issue ~250 archery tags. Make a lottery drawing. Sell 75% of em to outta state bow hunters. Same thing with rifle tags. Then when 400 get kilt, seasons over. Mo $$, mo $$.. The fellas makin the rules now could ruin ga hunting.

Our licenses are CHEAP in comparison to everywhere else. I’d happily pay a little more. And they need to flat gouge those outta staters. Just like everywhere else does. Wanna go hunt mule deer? Elk? Moose? Gets expensive quick!


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## Buckman18

goshenmountainman said:


> Yep, Me too. And I bet you didn't see my ride either... I have gotten wiley in my older age!!


I saw you. Nice hat!


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## humdandy

goshenmountainman said:


> Yep, Me too. And I bet you didn't see my ride either... I have gotten wiley in my older age!!


Old truck with camper top and couple of bows hanging off it?


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## strothershwacker

splatek said:


> For someone very new to the game, like me, I hate to hear that sentiment and hope that it's partly inflammatory... but my realist hat suggests it's probably more truth than fiction.


Don't get me wrong, I think most people's hearts in the right place when it comes to game management. Most folks go into the DNR because of their passion for wildlife management. But at the end of the day it's gonna come down to the $.


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## ddd-shooter

I am absolutely against raising hunting fees simply because our government is doing a bad job with the money I'm currently spending. 
The way the govt mishandles these forests is enough to realize they don't operate cleanly enough to say "what they need is more money from the American people and all will be well."


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## Raylander

ddd-shooter said:


> I am absolutely against raising hunting fees simply because our government is doing a bad job with the money I'm currently spending.
> The way the govt mishandles these forests is enough to realize they don't operate cleanly enough to say "what they need is more money from the American people and all will be well."



I’ll agree with that. Most government is here to micro manage and spend unnecessary $$. But we’ll save that for the political forum.

I’ll also say that for the price, I believe it’s $40 for hunting and big game, you get access to ~2 million acres. 12 deer, 3 turkeys, 2 bears, and seemingly unlimited small game opportunities. It is a heck of a deal. If it costs me another $5 or $10 to keep ga residents in the forefront- I’d happily make the sacrifice.


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## brownitisdown

No that was me buckman was higher up


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## Buckman18

humdandy said:


> Old truck with camper top and couple of bows hanging off it?



That was @brownitisdown


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## brownitisdown

I had that old Toyota seen 1991that my hunting and fishing truck


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## Buckman18

strothershwacker said:


> The main goal of this hunt is to see if it'll generate more revenue. If they expand these dog opportunities across North Georgia they can sale piles of non-resident licenses to Tennessee & North Carolina doggers. Every DNR meeting I've attended ended with Mr.Bowers talking about $. The resident bowhunter market is tapped out. So the search for a new $ generating market is in order. I'd pay another license fee increase to help alleviate the financial burdens DNR is faced with. How bout a separate bear tag purchase? Be not deceived by smoke & mirror biology talk. It's all about the MONEY.



Isnt Bowers the one who is known for being an arrogant and rude facilitator at the public meetings? He's been 'reassigned' to "special projects" now.


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## strothershwacker

Buckman18 said:


> Isnt Bowers the one who is known for being an arrogant and rude facilitator at the public meetings? He's been 'reassigned' to "special projects" now.
> 
> View attachment 984979


And I thought i was the only one that felt that way?


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## tree cutter 08

strothershwacker said:


> And I thought i was the only one that felt that way?


He let me know at the Gainesville meeting that he knew exactly what was going on in the mountains and why there was no deer anymore. I'm glad he informed me since I didn't know.


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## northgeorgiasportsman

tree cutter 08 said:


> He let me know at the Gainesville meeting that he knew exactly what was going on in the mountains and why there was no deer anymore. I'm glad he informed me since I didn't know.



What did the expert say?


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## Buckman18

tree cutter 08 said:


> He let me know at the Gainesville meeting that he knew exactly what was going on in the mountains and why there was no deer anymore. I'm glad he informed me since I didn't know.



That sounds like a special project that needs special attention!


----------



## tree cutter 08

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> What did the expert say?


He passed the buck to the forest service and said it was their fault. Didn't want to admit over harvest of does, surplus of yotes and bears. Didn't admit they let it get to bad to the point it is now. Blamed forest service for not cutting timber. They just had a tract approved to cut and guess what, nobody even bid on it. Times have changed and timber cutting in the mountains ain t going to happen. But managing other things that the state has control of can but he didn't go that direction.


----------



## Buckman18

tree cutter 08 said:


> He passed the buck to the forest service and said it was their fault. Didn't want to admit over harvest of does, surplus of yotes and bears. Didn't admit they let it get to bad to the point it is now. Blamed forest service for not cutting timber. They just had a tract approved to cut and guess what, nobody even bid on it. Times have changed and timber cutting in the mountains ain t going to happen. But managing other things that the state has control of can but he didn't go that direction.



Thats what they say. Not much has changed from a timber standpoint in the past 30 years, and we had deer then. But not as many bears and yotes.


----------



## ddd-shooter

tree cutter 08 said:


> He passed the buck to the forest service and said it was their fault. Didn't want to admit over harvest of does, surplus of yotes and bears. Didn't admit they let it get to bad to the point it is now. Blamed forest service for not cutting timber. They just had a tract approved to cut and guess what, nobody even bid on it. Times have changed and timber cutting in the mountains ain t going to happen. But managing other things that the state has control of can but he didn't go that direction.


Sounds like our government. Blame someone else higher up the ladder. 
I am aware of the problems at the federal level, but geeze.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman

tree cutter 08 said:


> Times have changed and timber cutting in the mountains ain t going to happen.



Then let 'em burn.


----------



## goshenmountainman

brownitisdown said:


> Me too it was me I know we all are hunting the same road


Walked in from a piece of national forest and made a big loop, coming out in the wildcat drainage and got picked up. But it was yesterday.


----------



## humdandy

brownitisdown said:


> Me too it was me I know we all are hunting the same road



I was putting up no trespassing signs in there.........


----------



## brownitisdown

I grow up hunting and fishing up there


----------



## humdandy

Anybody know the current total number of bears checked in?

Also, how do they justify a 200 bear quota on what some might consider small ac. for the number of bears.  

Do they have an idea of the number of bears per square ac?  Or per square 100 ac?


----------



## Buckman18

humdandy said:


> Anybody know the current total number of bears checked in?
> 
> Also, how do they justify a 200 bear quota on what some might consider small ac. for the number of bears.
> 
> Do they have an idea of the number of bears per square ac?  Or per square 100 ac?



I heard 28 earlier today, and I know my buddies on another team just text another pic, so I'm thinking at least 29ish.


----------



## GAbullHunter

Why not charge all the sight seers a drive fee or a hiking fee. They will literally walk in front of hunters an not think twice on what it just did to our hunt. We pay licenses fees to hunt it, let them pay a enterance fee if your a non license holder. ???


----------



## splatek

Buckman18 said:


> I heard 28 earlier today, and I know my buddies on another team just text another pic, so I'm thinking at least 29ish.



Those are just wma numbers right, maybe just Chattahoochee  WMA numbers.
Im going to be curious to see the numbers for chestatee, which I really like to fish, but have never hunted (not sure if any of y'all have ever actually hunted there) and overall public / private divide.
If memory serves there was a huge imbalance in the number bears taken from private relative to public land, I would need to go double check that.
It immediately made me wonder about baiting, say for deer, that bear might  have eaten... And ran into a bullet/arrow.
Really just curiosity, because as a newb, seems like this bear dog run could change the way things are done. I'd like to take what I learned (continue to learn) this year and hopefully apply it successfully next year.


----------



## Raylander

Buckman18 said:


> I heard 28 earlier today, and I know my buddies on another team just text another pic, so I'm thinking at least 29ish.



29 total for the entire season? Or the dog hunt?

They killin any sows with them hounds? Or mostly boars?


----------



## Buckman18

worleyburd86 said:


> 29 total for the entire season? Or the dog hunt?
> 
> They killin any sows with them hounds? Or mostly boars?



Dog hunt. Both boars and sows.


----------



## Raylander

GAbullHunter said:


> Why not charge all the sight seers a drive fee or a hiking fee. They will literally walk in front of hunters an not think twice on what it just did to our hunt. We pay licenses fees to hunt it, let them pay a enterance fee if your a non license holder. ???



GORP pass


----------



## Buckman18

splatek said:


> Those are just wma numbers right, maybe just Chattahoochee  WMA numbers.
> Im going to be curious to see the numbers for chestatee, which I really like to fish, but have never hunted (not sure if any of y'all have ever actually hunted there) and overall public / private divide.
> If memory serves there was a huge imbalance in the number bears taken from private relative to public land, I would need to go double check that.
> It immediately made me wonder about baiting, say for deer, that bear might  have eaten... And ran into a bullet/arrow.
> Really just curiosity, because as a newb, seems like this bear dog run could change the way things are done. I'd like to take what I learned (continue to learn) this year and hopefully apply it successfully next year.



Not sure if both or just chattahoochee


----------



## strothershwacker

worleyburd86 said:


> GORP pass


GORP is not enforced.


----------



## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> Dog hunt. Both boars and sows.


When shooting these sows how do they know they aren't breaking them away from their cubs when the dogs chase em or do they even care at this point.


----------



## Raylander

strothershwacker said:


> GORP is not enforced.



I agree. I’ve only seen one place (teenager hangout) where they actively enforce the reg.

It’s really good for nothin except giving the yuppies a voice when it comes time for plannin..


----------



## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> Not sure if both or just chattahoochee



On Sunday evening there were 13 tagged out total between both WMA’s. I’d say 28-29 is all over the number at the end of today but I havnt checked again.  That’s pretty good for only 4 days into it.  They making it rain bears.  I’m really aggravated that residents got shafted in the draw but it makes sense overall.  The state would gain nothing from me being drawn other than potential harvest numbers.  They gained a potential 10 out of state license fees from a non-resident so I see the reasoning.  Also was a good way to weed out people applying without dogs and taking up chances like they did in the previous quota hog hunts we had.  They’ve already killed more in 4 days than those WMA’s will give up in 2 years on average.  Best thing that could have ever happened for the deer, the state, hunters, and the bear as well in the long run.


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> When shooting these sows how do they know they aren't breaking them away from their cubs when the dogs chase em or do they even care at this point.



Most sows will put cubs above them or make a lap to try and pull dogs and swing back by a pick up cubs if they are that small.  It’s not hard to keep from killing sows with cubs.  Yearlings that are still hanging out with their mamas are more likely and in that case they are plenty big enough to be on their own she just hasn’t run them off yet.  Accidents can happen, but overall you’d be more likely to kill nursing sows still hunting when rushing a shot than with dogs.  

I’ve heard of a couple studs #330 and #380 being killed but that’s just hearsay.  I did see a dang goodun’ taking a ride on a dog box Saturday about lunch.  He was definitely in that #300 pound range.


----------



## Raylander

I don’t believe they can hurt the population. Even if they wind up killin 100 bears off those 2 wmas. Unless it’s all sows, won’t make a difference in the long run. Even the state agrees.. This hunt wasn’t about reducing #s, its about $$. It’s sad.


----------



## Christian hughey

worleyburd86 said:


> I don’t believe they can hurt the population. Even if they wind up killin 100 bears off those 2 wmas. Unless it’s all sows, won’t make a difference in the long run.. Even the biologists stated that. This hunt wasn’t about reducing #s, its about $$. It’s sad.


Well they got a bunch of p'd residents that feel they turned their backs on us for a dollar, like they care and like we can actually do anything about it. The public meetings are a joke. But that's our government for ya.


----------



## tree cutter 08

I heard 2 on chestatee


----------



## Joe Brandon

Wish the timing was different but I'm glad bears are being killed. It will be intresting to see how the gun hunts turn out though I know those numbers are typically low for bear and nearly nonexistent for deer.


----------



## Raylander

Joe Brandon said:


> Wish the timing was different but I'm glad bears are being killed. It will be intresting to see how the gun hunts turn out though I know those numbers are typically low for bear and nearly nonexistent for deer.



They won’t be adjusting the timing.. Ain’t no way those NRs are gonna leave their home state to come run in an overcrowded hunt. It was planned early specifically to garner the outta state $$. It’s a cash cow they’ve just learned to milk.


----------



## Buckman18

worleyburd86 said:


> They won’t be adjusting the timing.. Ain’t no way those NRs are gonna leave their home state to come run in an overcrowded hunt. It was planned early specifically to garner the outta state $$. It’s a cash cow they’ve just learned to milk.



I wouldnt say that.  With the road structure on those WMA's and the bears still not getting near the pressure as the NC bears, id MUCH rather drive my dogs to Chattahoochee or Chestatee than chase them over those NC mountains. Ive been on hunts there that literally lasted over 36 hours. The range here is nothing compared to there. In other words, our WMAs are a target rich cake walk compared to what they are used to hunting.


----------



## GAbullHunter

strothershwacker said:


> GORP is not enforced.


Right.
So it needs to be day passes like the camping fee per day an like ACOE has for parks. Pay at the post, tag your vehicle then go on in. For non license holders or anyone that is not with a license holder. It would be a honesty approach to the yuppies an all.


----------



## GAbullHunter

Honestly if is was about the game an not the $ then why not give 3 tags instead 2 per year. I would love for my freezer to be full of bear meat! Why not two rifle weeks instead of one.. So yeah its about the money in the long run. Way things seem to have panned out. 
Good news for central hunters thou they can hunt Dec now instead last day of big game in Jan. I think they could have gave em a weekend but some movement is better then none in some eyes.


----------



## ddd-shooter

GAbullHunter said:


> Right.
> So it needs to be day passes like the camping fee per day an like ACOE has for parks. Pay at the post, tag your vehicle then go on in. For non license holders or anyone that is not with a license holder. It would be a honesty approach to the yuppies an all.


I pay to hunt. I have a say in management. 
They pay to visit, they might gain a say in management. I do not want this. 
I want to be the only one paying.
Again, the govt has enough of my money, they just spend it inefficiently.


----------



## Heath

ddd-shooter said:


> I pay to hunt. I have a say in management.
> They pay to visit, they might gain a say in management. I do not want this.
> I want to be the only one paying.
> Again, the govt has enough of my money, they just spend it inefficiently.



That’s exactly right,  you let others start paying and they will take control.  No need to increase fees or bring non hunters into the same playing field. Just use the money properly.  This hunt is doing everything that’s being mentioned,  making extra money and lowering bear numbers.  That’s a great start for more balance in this area.  Now if they will dump the money back into these WMA’s and continue keeping bear numbers in check it could be a huge step in the right direction.  

Don’t be fooled,  25 or 30 bears out of an area will help tremendously.  You will see dispersal from other areas to fill in home ranges.  The reason you see more and more bear in middle Georgia and other areas is because of this dispersal.  Overpopulation results in bears venturing farther to establish home ranges.  This hunt is certainly about population control, it just happened to come with the ability for financial gain that the state capitalized on.  I’m as upset as anyone about non-residents getting priority over me.  However,  after thinking about it,  it’s working out great.  Bear numbers down, state making extra money, the balance of deer/bear will eventually get back where it should be after a couple years of this kind of population control.  Bear are not like deer,  it takes 3-5 years to see the effects on population due to their recruitment process.  If you are a bear hunter or deer hunter, this hunt is taking a step in the right direction for our future.  Bear numbers are unhealthy for bear and deer alike.  Finally, we have been afforded an avenue to help establish some balance.


----------



## brownitisdown

I am hearing they are manly killing does very few boar are being killed


----------



## brownitisdown

I see what you are saying and agree with it they should open bear dogging all the way across north ga on private land that would help the farmers up there


----------



## Raylander

If it was about reducing or even stabilizing numbers then they’d go about it in an entirely different manner. They would set a number of sows to be killed in the spring. Then when that sow quota is reached, the hunt is over. Fall continues as is, with or without hounds. That is the best way to reduce or stabilize numbers. Until then, we are just swapping methods. I’d love to have some hounds and start up. But the state would sell my tags to the highest bidder.


----------



## Raylander

brownitisdown said:


> I am hearing they are manly killing does very few boar are being killed



Good


----------



## brownitisdown

They should a spring bear dogging season and let have at for a month the farmers will be and state will make alot $$$$$$$  on out of state Hunter


----------



## Raylander

That’d be one way to get numbers down! They have no interest in that though.

Pretty soon it’ll all just be frisbee golf courses and mtn biking trails.


----------



## brownitisdown

Everybody that use the wma should have to buy a wma stamp like the Hunter and fisherman were you are camping hiking biking or even parking lol


----------



## strothershwacker

This is a test run. It's "success" will determine what they do from here. I'll go ahead and speak on behalf of a blue billion bowhunters in region 1 - We ain't gonna have it! If you think so, you better come ready fight.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

worleyburd86 said:


> If it was about reducing or even stabilizing numbers then they’d go about it in an entirely different manner. They would set a number of sows to be killed in the spring. Then when that sow quota is reached, the hunt is over. Fall continues as is, with or without hounds. That is the best way to reduce or stabilize numbers. Until then, we are just swapping methods. I’d love to have some hounds and start up. But the state would sell my tags to the highest bidder.


SC is this way. Once X number of bear are killed....season over. But their season includes all public lands. All public lands over there are considered game mgt.


----------



## strothershwacker




----------



## tree cutter 08

Y'all have to remember, the state's bear biologist was wanting to "maintain" the population to its current state. Allot of others, myself included want to see it cut and maybe even cut in half. I don't think this hunt is to reduce numbers according to what I read earlier in the year in the bear report. If they kill 50 on this hunt that's only 10 percent of last year's total harvest. Not much of a dent if ya ask me.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Heath said:


> On Sunday evening there were 13 tagged out total between both WMA’s. I’d say 28-29 is all over the number at the end of today but I havnt checked again.  That’s pretty good for only 4 days into it.  They making it rain bears.  I’m really aggravated that residents got shafted in the draw but it makes sense overall.  The state would gain nothing from me being drawn other than potential harvest numbers.  They gained a potential 10 out of state license fees from a non-resident so I see the reasoning.  Also was a good way to weed out people applying without dogs and taking up chances like they did in the previous quota hog hunts we had.  They’ve already killed more in 4 days than those WMA’s will give up in 2 years on average.  Best thing that could have ever happened for the deer, the state, hunters, and the bear as well in the long run.


29 bears, just on Chattahoochee, dad just told me. He has been there every day since it opened, they have killed four in his group and two more that went on Dukes Creek and they couldn't shoot them.


----------



## goshenmountainman

strothershwacker said:


> This is a test run. It's "success" will determine what they do from here. I'll go ahead and speak on behalf of a blue billion bowhunters in region 1 - We ain't gonna have it! If you think so, you better come ready fight.


Hasn't bothered my bowhunting one bit, still seeing them, just not the one I want to shoot. They gonna do what they want where you like it or not. They could take 20 out of nearly every major drainage in Northeast Georgia and still not make much of a dent in the population.


----------



## strothershwacker

goshenmountainman said:


> Hasn't bothered my bowhunting one bit, still seeing them, just not the one I want to shoot. They gonna do what they want where you like it or not. They could take 20 out of nearly every major drainage in Northeast Georgia and still not make much of a dent in the population.


Yup. There gonna do what they want wether I like it or not. Been doing that since 1861.?


----------



## strothershwacker

And em Tennessee boy gonna get their backside handed to em on the football field this weekend, so they might as well have fun this week!?????


----------



## GAbullHunter

ddd-shooter said:


> I pay to hunt. I have a say in management.
> They pay to visit, they might gain a say in management. I do not want this.
> I want to be the only one paying.
> Again, the govt has enough of my money, they just spend it inefficiently.


Only license holders should have a say in management.


----------



## Heath

goshenmountainman said:


> 29 bears, just on Chattahoochee, dad just told me. He has been there every day since it opened, they have killed four in his group and two more that went on Dukes Creek and they couldn't shoot them.



That’s good to hear.  I’m glad it’s been a good hunt.  The few residents that did get to hunt were long overdue a chance.  We’ve had to pay non-resident license fees forever in order to get kill tags.  Some of us are just grateful to at least finally have a chance.  I’ve got 33 years of out of state license money that I would have gladly spent here if given the opportunity.  I’m happy to see the state finally sharing some more of our natural resources with more than just a few that want it all for themselves.


----------



## strothershwacker

A man run a dog with a bear probably carries a purse.


----------



## GAbullHunter

goshenmountainman said:


> Hasn't bothered my bowhunting one bit, still seeing them, just not the one I want to shoot. They gonna do what they want where you like it or not. They could take 20 out of nearly every major drainage in Northeast Georgia and still not make much of a dent in the population.


Let me have couple those bears you dont want. Between my house we can take a total of 8 of them to order?


----------



## CornStalker

After reading 7 pages of this thread, I'm going to offer a few quick thoughts.

1. Let's ease up on the trash talking regarding the "government". These state wildlife agencies are full of a lot of hard working men and women (and of course some slackers) that have limited budgets and resources. Many of them have dedicated their entire careers to wildlife research and trying serve the public. Last time I checked---it's pretty freaking hard to please the "public". If you doubt that, just go read all the squabbles on the GON forum.  ****, we've got hunters fighting other hunters! Let's not pretend that any of us could go run the DNR better than they can...I know I sure couldn't.

I have always been a big fan of limited government, but I will ALWAYS pay more money for conservation, and that's where my hunting license fees go. I know everyone complains about that extra $10 here and $5 there, but those are the same guys that go spend $250 at Bass Pro on China-made hunting crap that doesn't make them a better hunter. Priorities. 

2. I know many of you disagree, but killing bears isn't going to drastically change the deer population. There is a research project underway in North Georgia that is looking at the mortality rates of fawns. I look forward to seeing what they discover. We all know that bears kill fawns. And so do coyotes. But the number one limiting factor is habitat---it's almost always habitat. It's pretty dang hard for a fawn to hide in mature forest where there is little cover and little browse. Look in any mature forest accross the US, and you will see similar results--bears or no bears. And for arguments sake, let's say that hunters kill enough bears to really reduce the population. What's there to be done about the coyotes? You aren't going to make a dent in their population, even with hunting and trapping.

 National Forest land is managed by the US Forest Service, and they have to manage for more than just whitetail deer population to keep hunters happy. There's a lot of user groups, and a lot of players at that table--national and regional. So when our DNR officers talk about not having the ability to enact changes, they aren't just making excuses. There's a lot of red tape in making habitat manage decisions like cutting forest and prescribed burns. When the wildlife biologist are saying that the most limiting factor is habitat structure and diversity, I have to think they aren't just part of some vast conspiracy. 

3. I think those are my only two thoughts--y'all don't give me too much grief for this post... Hope everyone gets a bear!!


----------



## strothershwacker

CornStalker said:


> After reading 7 pages of this thread, I'm going to offer a few quick thoughts.
> 
> 1. Let's ease up on the trash talking regarding the "government". These state wildlife agencies are full of a lot of hard working men and women (and of course some slackers) that have limited budgets and resources. Many of them have dedicated their entire careers to wildlife research and trying serve the public. Last time I checked---it's pretty freaking hard to please the "public". If you doubt that, just go read all the squabbles on the GON forum.  ****, we've got hunters fighting other hunters! Let's not pretend that any of us could go run the DNR better than they can...I know I sure couldn't.
> 
> I have always been a big fan of limited government, but I will ALWAYS pay more money for conservation, and that's where my hunting license fees go. I know everyone complains about that extra $10 here and $5 there, but those are the same guys that go spend $250 at Bass Pro on China-made hunting crap that doesn't make them a better hunter. Priorities.
> 
> 2. I know many of you disagree, but killing bears isn't going to drastically change the deer population. There is a research project underway in North Georgia that is looking at the mortality rates of fawns. I look forward to seeing what they discover. We all know that bears kill fawns. And so do coyotes. But the number one limiting factor is habitat---it's almost always habitat. It's pretty dang hard for a fawn to hide in mature forest where there is little cover and little browse. Look in any mature forest accross the US, and you will see similar results--bears or no bears. And for arguments sake, let's say that hunters kill enough bears to really reduce the population. What's there to be done about the coyotes? You aren't going to make a dent in their population, even with hunting and trapping.
> 
> National Forest land is managed by the US Forest Service, and they have to manage for more than just whitetail deer population to keep hunters happy. There's a lot of user groups, and a lot of players at that table--national and regional. So when our DNR officers talk about not having the ability to enact changes, they aren't just making excuses. There's a lot of red tape in making habitat manage decisions like cutting forest and prescribed burns. When the wildlife biologist are saying that the most limiting factor is habitat structure and diversity, I have to think they aren't just part of some vast conspiracy.
> 
> 3. I think those are my only two thoughts--y'all don't give me too much grief for this post... Hope everyone gets a bear!!


 I didn't know Birmingham had commies! Hehehehe. We get a lil' rednecked bout things on here but most of its just goodhearted ribbing. We've all got our opinions but most of us have a common bond(our love for the woods) that holds us together. I'm thankful for our democracy, our public lands, this forum and even em stinkin' out of state doggers that are gummin up the hills. All opinions welcomed here I rekon. Theres only 2 things I hate.... people who are intolerant of other cultures & Yankees.


----------



## Christian hughey

CornStalker said:


> After reading 7 pages of this thread, I'm going to offer a few quick thoughts.
> 
> 1. Let's ease up on the trash talking regarding the "government". These state wildlife agencies are full of a lot of hard working men and women (and of course some slackers) that have limited budgets and resources. Many of them have dedicated their entire careers to wildlife research and trying serve the public. Last time I checked---it's pretty freaking hard to please the "public". If you doubt that, just go read all the squabbles on the GON forum.  ****, we've got hunters fighting other hunters! Let's not pretend that any of us could go run the DNR better than they can...I know I sure couldn't.
> 
> I have always been a big fan of limited government, but I will ALWAYS pay more money for conservation, and that's where my hunting license fees go. I know everyone complains about that extra $10 here and $5 there, but those are the same guys that go spend $250 at Bass Pro on China-made hunting crap that doesn't make them a better hunter. Priorities.
> 
> 2. I know many of you disagree, but killing bears isn't going to drastically change the deer population. There is a research project underway in North Georgia that is looking at the mortality rates of fawns. I look forward to seeing what they discover. We all know that bears kill fawns. And so do coyotes. But the number one limiting factor is habitat---it's almost always habitat. It's pretty dang hard for a fawn to hide in mature forest where there is little cover and little browse. Look in any mature forest accross the US, and you will see similar results--bears or no bears. And for arguments sake, let's say that hunters kill enough bears to really reduce the population. What's there to be done about the coyotes? You aren't going to make a dent in their population, even with hunting and trapping.
> 
> National Forest land is managed by the US Forest Service, and they have to manage for more than just whitetail deer population to keep hunters happy. There's a lot of user groups, and a lot of players at that table--national and regional. So when our DNR officers talk about not having the ability to enact changes, they aren't just making excuses. There's a lot of red tape in making habitat manage decisions like cutting forest and prescribed burns. When the wildlife biologist are saying that the most limiting factor is habitat structure and diversity, I have to think they aren't just part of some vast conspiracy.
> 
> 3. I think those are my only two thoughts--y'all don't give me too much grief for this post... Hope everyone gets a bear!!


Not saying anything about the hard working men and women that do the best they can with what they got. They are told what to do by someone in office that probably has never hunted and doesn't have a clue. If there only motivation is money then they have things seriously twisted. I pay mine and you pay yours no need for a bunch of out of state money when it comes down to it the residents of this state got screwed for a dollar and yes if the right people were in office alot probably could change. Public opinion is heard but not acknowledged.


----------



## Gator89

strothershwacker said:


> I didn't know Birmingham  Theres only 2 things I hate.... people who are intolerant of other cultures & Yankees.





strothershwacker said:


> Theres only 2 things I hate.... people who are intolerant of other cultures & Yankees.



Wait, isn't that redundant?


----------



## strothershwacker

Gator89 said:


> Wait, isn't that redundant?


?


----------



## goshenmountainman

GAbullHunter said:


> Let me have couple those bears you dont want. Between my house we can take a total of 8 of them to order?


All you have to do is pick a piece of National Forest and go hunt deer! The bears usually find me pretty quick that way.


----------



## Christian hughey

goshenmountainman said:


> All you have to do is pick a piece of National Forest and go hunt deer! The bears usually find me pretty quick that way.


Sign has been scarce this year for me but I only get a couple weekends a year. A push in the right direction would be appreciated this year.


----------



## j_seph

CornStalker said:


> After reading 7 pages of this thread, I'm going to offer a few quick thoughts.
> 
> 1. Let's ease up on the trash talking regarding the "government". These state wildlife agencies are full of a lot of hard working men and women (and of course some slackers) that have limited budgets and resources. Many of them have dedicated their entire careers to wildlife research and trying serve the public. Last time I checked---it's pretty freaking hard to please the "public". If you doubt that, just go read all the squabbles on the GON forum.  ****, we've got hunters fighting other hunters! Let's not pretend that any of us could go run the DNR better than they can...I know I sure couldn't.
> 
> I have always been a big fan of limited government, but I will ALWAYS pay more money for conservation, and that's where my hunting license fees go. I know everyone complains about that extra $10 here and $5 there, but those are the same guys that go spend $250 at Bass Pro on China-made hunting crap that doesn't make them a better hunter. Priorities.
> 
> 2. I know many of you disagree, but killing bears isn't going to drastically change the deer population. There is a research project underway in North Georgia that is looking at the mortality rates of fawns. I look forward to seeing what they discover. We all know that bears kill fawns. And so do coyotes. But the number one limiting factor is habitat---it's almost always habitat. It's pretty dang hard for a fawn to hide in mature forest where there is little cover and little browse. Look in any mature forest accross the US, and you will see similar results--bears or no bears. And for arguments sake, let's say that hunters kill enough bears to really reduce the population. What's there to be done about the coyotes? You aren't going to make a dent in their population, even with hunting and trapping.
> 
> National Forest land is managed by the US Forest Service, and they have to manage for more than just whitetail deer population to keep hunters happy. There's a lot of user groups, and a lot of players at that table--national and regional. So when our DNR officers talk about not having the ability to enact changes, they aren't just making excuses. There's a lot of red tape in making habitat manage decisions like cutting forest and prescribed burns. When the wildlife biologist are saying that the most limiting factor is habitat structure and diversity, I have to think they aren't just part of some vast conspiracy.
> 
> 3. I think those are my only two thoughts--y'all don't give me too much grief for this post... Hope everyone gets a bear!!



http://forum.gon.com/threads/deer-study-on-blue-ridge-wma.935991/page-2


----------



## HM

Christian hughey said:


> ...



I'm against this hunt, I think a lot about it should have been done differently but I understand DNR's intent with it. Reducing population, it's the same reason they allow an early rifle hunt. Nothing about it was done for money or someone doing a buddy a favor, it was a conservation management decision to kill more bears.

Most everyone at DNR involved in that process are hunters and outdoorsman. Their actions are based on management principles that are science driven, not hunter satisfaction. With that being said, there seems to be a lot of hunters who were satisfied.


----------



## GAbullHunter

Wonder if any of those doggers recovered the one I couldn't find..


----------



## GAbullHunter

Christian hughey said:


> Sign has been scarce this year for me but I only get a couple weekends a year. A push in the right direction would be appreciated this year.


Ive seen sign. Even seen the bear once, walked away from one hunt to let a 1st timer have it they succeeded before I could get across field. But then time off was up an the fun ended, an then it was the dogs turn.


----------



## Christian hughey

HM said:


> I'm against this hunt, I think a lot about it should have been done differently but I understand DNR's intent with it. Reducing population, it's the same reason they allow an early rifle hunt. Nothing about it was done for money or someone doing a buddy a favor, it was a conservation management decision to kill more bears.
> 
> Most everyone at DNR involved in that process are hunters and outdoorsman. Their actions are based on management principles that are science driven, not hunter satisfaction. With that being said, there seems to be a lot of hunters who were satisfied.


Like I said the hard working men and women in the field are not the problem and public opinion should matter, afterall we are one of the biggest conservation resources. Not all of their decisions are based on science or fact I'm sure. Idiotic politicians that have never hunted a day in their lives have a say as well.


----------



## Christian hughey

GAbullHunter said:


> Ive seen sign. Even seen the bear once, walked away from one hunt to let a 1st timer have it they succeeded before I could get across field. But then time off was up an the fun ended, an then it was the dogs turn.


Opening weekend I found a spot that was slap tore up by bear but looked like they vacated not long before I showed up I still hunted the area seeing no bear. I did however see some nice mountain bucks cruising the backside of a food plot which was surprising on the hooch first time in all the years I've hunted there that I actually seen deer so I mark it a success. Hopefully my nose will carry me in the right direction at cohutta this weekend. With the dogs still terrorizing the hooch this weekend I have decided to go west and try something new.


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> Opening weekend I found a spot that was slap tore up by bear but looked like they vacated not long before I showed up I still hunted the area seeing no bear. I did however see some nice mountain bucks cruising the backside of a food plot which was surprising on the hooch first time in all the years I've hunted there that I actually seen deer so I mark it a success. Hopefully my nose will carry me in the right direction at cohutta this weekend. With the dogs still terrorizing the hooch this weekend I have decided to go west and try something new.



Why not hunt the thousands of acres of national forest that border these 2 WMA’s  where all the pressure is being applied?  I can see going to Cohutta if you just want to hunt something new but theres more land outside those boundaries than inside that will be unaffected by any pressure from the hunt going on.  Just curious.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Why not hunt the thousands of acres of national forest that border these 2 WMA’s  where all the pressure is being applied?  I can see going to Cohutta if you just want to hunt something new but theres more land outside those boundaries than inside that will be unaffected by any pressure from the hunt going on.  Just curious.


Been wanting to hunt cohutta for a long time, just never been and I've scouted a few spots on nf surrounding the wmas with not much sign. Figure I will trek some new ground and hopefully get lucky and wonder up on something. Trust me I haven't given up on hooch, one of my favorite places to be sitting on opening day and I will be back next year dogs or not!


----------



## Al Medcalf

"I'll go ahead and speak on behalf of a blue billion bowhunters in region 1 - We ain't gonna have it! If you think so, you better come ready fight."

Sounds like mighty bold talk for folks that sit around up in trees.


----------



## Buckman18

Al Medcalf said:


> "I'll go ahead and speak on behalf of a blue billion bowhunters in region 1 - We ain't gonna have it! If you think so, you better come ready fight."
> 
> Sounds like mighty bold talk for folks that sit around up in trees.



Im pretty sure @strothershwacker stalks his from the ground and catches 'em by surprise... He's a certified killer, and doesnt need or want hounds to find them for him?


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## brownitisdown

Dog hunting is about like cheating when it comes to bear hunting it isn't Hunter that find the bear it the dogs but each to there on


----------



## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> Im pretty sure @strothershwacker stalks his from the ground and catches 'em by surprise... He's a certified killer, and doesnt need or want hounds to find them for him?


This hunt just proved how easy it is for dogs to find bears. The hunt could happen any time of the year and the results would be similar. You can't say you work harder for yours and your no bader just because you chase a pack of dogs that do the hunting for you. We all just need to agree to disagree. We are all fellow hunters and I commend you all for getting outdoors, not wearing a dress if your supposed to wear pants and acknowledging you gender by looking in your pants.


----------



## GAbullHunter




----------



## humdandy

I think they should start a spring season over bait on WMA........


----------



## Christian hughey

GAbullHunter said:


>


Just sayin proud of yall!


----------



## splatek

Simple curiosity here: but if the dog bear hunt was in part to reduce bear population and some have surmised that it might help the deer population, aren't deer afraid of dogs, too? 
As for the gender comment: AMEN! Man I work at a college and well, I'll just leave it at that...


----------



## Christian hughey

splatek said:


> Simple curiosity here: but if the dog bear hunt was in part to reduce bear population and some have surmised that it might help the deer population, aren't deer afraid of dogs, too?
> As for the gender comment: AMEN! Man I work at a college and well, I'll just leave it at that...


The study that I just read about the fawn recruitment by mr kill master explained out of 8, 2 fawns were lost to bear 4 lost to coyote, 1 lost to Bush hogging and one died out of the whom. Seems like coyotes need the axe more than anything and I understand this was just one study and it will take years of study to truly understand.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

brownitisdown said:


> Dog hunting is about like cheating when it comes to bear hunting it isn't Hunter that find the bear it the dogs but each to there on


Yeah it’s real simple....you aught to try it sometime. It’s a real cake walk.


----------



## Buckman18

Christian hughey said:


> This hunt just proved how easy it is for dogs to find bears. The hunt could happen any time of the year and the results would be similar. You can't say you work harder for yours and your no bader just because you chase a pack of dogs that do the hunting for you. We all just need to agree to disagree. We are all fellow hunters and I commend you all for getting outdoors, not wearing a dress if your supposed to wear pants and acknowledging you gender by looking in your pants.



Dog hunters are also hunters like us and they deserve a shake at things also. But the state did a poor job with the timing, drawing, and other things in my opinion. It is what it is.


----------



## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> Dog hunters are also hunters like us and they deserve a shake at things also. But the state did a poor job with the timing, drawing, and other things in my opinion. It is what it is.


I hope GON does a story about this hunt next month will be an interesting to read.


----------



## Buckman18

Christian hughey said:


> I hope GON does a story about this hunt next month will be an interesting to read.



I just let my subscription run out after that goofball wrote an article about the turkeys going extinct. I haven't really found myself wanting to renew after that article of fake news.


----------



## brownitisdown

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Yeah it’s real simple....you aught to try it sometime. It’s a real cake walk.


I have I been South ga with friends of mine running deer with dogs coon hunted must of my life up here in the MTN were I live a good pack of dogs and you can get what you are after pretty easy


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Until now, I really didn't realize there was so much dislike of folks who hunt with dogs ! From the different posts I have read, not just the bear hunters on these hunts, but people who hunt with dogs in general, are not very well thought of !! I have never heard anybody  knocking folks that hunt dogs till now !! I guess we never know what/how most people think or believe in !


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman

greg_n_clayton said:


> Until now, I really didn't realize there was so much dislike of folks who hunt with dogs ! From the different posts I have read, not just the bear hunters on these hunts, but people who hunt with dogs in general, are not very well thought of !! I have never heard anybody  knocking folks that hunt dogs till now !! I guess we never know what/how most people think or believe in !




Greg, I don't think most people are against houndsmen, they are simply not in favor of losing part of their season to them.


----------



## Christian hughey

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Greg, I don't think most people are against houndsmen, they are simply not in favor of losing part of their season to them.


Bingo, not against them I just acknowledge how much of a factor the dog is locating the bears, doesn't make them less a men. They still hump it up and down those hills just like I do, they just have one heck of a nose ahead of them. If you put that same group together without the dog opportunity would go way down.


----------



## splatek

Christian hughey said:


> The study that I just read about the fawn recruitment by mr kill master explained out of 8, 2 fawns were lost to bear 4 lost to coyote, 1 lost to Bush hogging and one died out of the whom. Seems like coyotes need the axe more than anything and I understand this was just one study and it will take years of study to truly understand.



Yeah I was listening to a guy from UGA talk about the coyote and bear problem and the general fawn recruitment issue. It appears to be a combo of a lot of things, sort of a perfect storm for the decrease in fawn recruitment: bear, coyote, habitate (or lack there of), and (according to what I heard, not me) mismanagement of doe harvest by hunters, which might be why now it's buck only east of 75. I would be interested to know what percentage of fawns were lost to late season prego does being harvested as a factor in that mix, as well. I am not sure if that's a real issue, but that's the, or one of the reasons I would like to know. My main issue, personal as it might be, is that to hunt deer right now I have to go south, thru ... Atlanta ... something I've successfully avoided for a long time. I much much much prefer the mountains, the fishing, the terrain, etc. Just being a newb, things took me south. So I'd love to see a mountain deer population explode, I know it wouldn't make me any better of a hunter, but heck at least I'd be NOT killing deer in an area I like to be. HA


----------



## Christian hughey

splatek said:


> Yeah I was listening to a guy from UGA talk about the coyote and bear problem and the general fawn recruitment issue. It appears to be a combo of a lot of things, sort of a perfect storm for the decrease in fawn recruitment: bear, coyote, habitate (or lack there of), and (according to what I heard, not me) mismanagement of doe harvest by hunters, which might be why now it's buck only east of 75. I would be interested to know what percentage of fawns were lost to late season prego does being harvested as a factor in that mix, as well. I am not sure if that's a real issue, but that's the, or one of the reasons I would like to know. My main issue, personal as it might be, is that to hunt deer right now I have to go south, thru ... Atlanta ... something I've successfully avoided for a long time. I much much much prefer the mountains, the fishing, the terrain, etc. Just being a newb, things took me south. So I'd love to see a mountain deer population explode, I know it wouldn't make me any better of a hunter, but heck at least I'd be NOT killing deer in an area I like to be. HA


Piedmont region has some awesome deer hunting but I totally understand not wanting to come through Atlanta. As much as I enjoy hunting the mountains, if we had bear i would stay down here for that exact reason but our bear population suck so I'll see yall around.


----------



## Gator89

Splat, just get up real early, about 2 am, and put the hammer down through 'Lanta and get to your hunting spot just in time to go hunting.  When I was living in NW Gwinnett, I would get up about 3 am, get dressed and hit the road for Baldwin county. I could stop at a Waffle House in Macon and still be at the lease with time to spare.

If you don't have to pull a utility trailer, a peach pass is a good thing to have, too.

Now that I  have rejoined the Floriduh boys, I have a six hour drive instead of two.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

If most of the dog hunting permits were issued to out of staters....I think that's just wrong no matter how you try to justify it.  But on the same hand if you go back and read some of the earlier posts on this thread were people were talking about sucking up the issued tags by taking their wife's poodle bear dogging, that might be a self inflicted wound. Wheather they were just expressing frustration or being serious, the  State sure  eliminated  that threat. A never met a dog hunter that didn't want to share the experience . Maybe next year the state  will do it different to make it better for everyone. Some of y'all might make a new friend or learn something if you go on a dog hunt with someone. It's nothing like running deer or treeing coon with dog. Not from my expierence anyway. It's all hunting, stick together and work together. Give it a shot.


----------



## brownitisdown

Got a couple of friends of mine on the  hunt one of them me last night that they had a dog killed and couple cut up from hogs on Chattahoochee


----------



## GAbullHunter

Not knocking the dogs. Just needed different timing.


----------



## Unicoidawg

Buckman18 said:


> Dog hunters are also hunters like us and they deserve a shake at things also. But the state did a poor job with the timing, drawing, and other things in my opinion. It is what it is.



This^^^^^ I don't necessarily have a issue with them hunting. The timing is my main thing and the lack of in staters getting drawn is just plain wrong. I think the state needs to make ALL QUOTA hunts limited to 10-20% NR and the rest residents. Then on top of that charge them a fee to apply to begin with say $25 processing fee. Lord knows I've paid it before out west and in the midwest over the years.






northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Greg, I don't think most people are against houndsmen, they are simply not in favor of losing part of their season to them.




Yep.


----------



## Heath

brownitisdown said:


> Got a couple of friends of mine on the  hunt one of them me last night that they had a dog killed and couple cut up from hogs on Chattahoochee



Must have been so easy, them dogs laid down and died!  Would you be open to coming up for a hunt sometime?  I’ll gladly dispel your fears of anything being easy about mountain hunting with a dog.  I’ll even take care of 3 meals a day and you can kill every hog you can crawl and climb to.  We won’t be able to kill bear but you can video or take as many pictures as you want.  Plan on coming 3 days in a row and if you can make it through the 3rd day I’ll give you $500 bucks for your trouble.  It will be an eye opening experience for you, I promise.  
I will not leave my dogs ever again because someone can’t go any further, make sure you can cover 8-10 miles a day and come enjoy this easy hunting!


----------



## brownitisdown

Unicoidawg said:


> This^^^^^ I don't necessarily have a issue with them hunting. The timing is my main thing and the lack of in staters getting drawn is just plain wrong. I think the state needs to make ALL QUOTA hunts limited to 10-20% NR and the rest residents. Then on top of that charge them a fee to apply to begin with say $25 processing fee. Lord knows I've paid it before out west and in the midwest over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you that what I been saying for years I know Iowa use 10 bucks a point now it 50 bucks and we still pay it it usually that 3 years to drawed up there now it use to be 1 maybe 2


----------



## brownitisdown

Heath said:


> Must have been so easy, them dogs laid down and died!  Would you be open to coming up for a hunt sometime?  I’ll gladly dispel your fears of anything being easy about mountain hunting with a dog.  I’ll even take care of 3 meals a day and you can kill every hog you can crawl and climb to.  We won’t be able to kill bear but you can video or take as many pictures as you want.  Plan on coming 3 days in a row and if you can make it through the 3rd day I’ll give you $500 bucks for your trouble.  It will be an eye opening experience for you, I promise.
> I will not leave my dogs ever again because someone can’t go any further, make sure you can cover 8-10 miles a day and come enjoy this easy hunting!


I hunt the MTN all the time I don't need or want any help from you and I don't anything or anybody


----------



## brownitisdown

Don't fear


----------



## brownitisdown

brownitisdown said:


> Got a couple of friends of mine on the  hunt one of them me last night that they had a dog killed and couple cut up from hogs on Chattahoochee


----------



## brownitisdown

Read I was saying they had a dog killed by hogs on the hunt and some cut up from hogs


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## Christian hughey

Sad the dogs died but it happens. I know it's hot but hope they had some kevlar on those pups atleast


----------



## Al Medcalf

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Yeah it’s real simple....you aught to try it sometime. It’s a real cake walk.



The ignorance of these "Subdivision Daniel Boones" is astonishing.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Christian hughey said:


> Sign has been scarce this year for me but I only get a couple weekends a year. A push in the right direction would be appreciated this year.


The most sign for me is between 2500-3000ft. elevation.


----------



## goshenmountainman

brownitisdown said:


> Got a couple of friends of mine on the  hunt one of them me last night that they had a dog killed and couple cut up from hogs on Chattahoochee


My neice's husband lost one the first day to a big boar, he got killed before they could even get to the dogs. He was the litter mate to my black and tan.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Dad told me that they got three more bear today, the rain helped a lot with the trailing. He is already in the bed for the night.. and anybody that knows him will tell you, he is as tough as they come.. he said its the hardest hunting he has ever done!


----------



## Heath

brownitisdown said:


> I hunt the MTN all the time I don't need or want any help from you and I don't anything or anybody



You are projecting your opinion into what I said,  I wasn’t offering help.  Nor did I say you fear anything or anyone.  I was honest and sincere in my offer.  I am extending an olive branch for you to see the other side of what you so vehemently oppose.  Those dogs paid an ultimate price for doing what comes natural to them.  They aren’t forced to give up life and limb but they do so willingly because they are as hard as the game they pursue.  Many of those men are the same way,  yes there are bad apples and ones that ride roads and do very little hunting just like deer hunters and every other walk of life.  You spouted off yet another unfounded opinion about something you admittedly have never experienced.  I was simply offering you an experience so that you could speak about something you had actually done.  The offer still stands!


----------



## Heath

goshenmountainman said:


> Dad told me that they got three more bear today, the rain helped a lot with the trailing. He is already in the bed for the night.. and anybody that knows him will tell you, he is as tough as they come.. he said its the hardest hunting he has ever done!



Nah, he’s just soft according to some of these gurus.


----------



## strothershwacker

If a dog gets killed trying to bay or tree a meaner nastier animals than itself, then you know it was jam up dog that had no quit in it. Regardless of how I feel bout this hunt, I hate hear bout that.


----------



## strothershwacker

Heath said:


> Must have been so easy, them dogs laid down and died!  Would you be open to coming up for a hunt sometime?  I’ll gladly dispel your fears of anything being easy about mountain hunting with a dog.  I’ll even take care of 3 meals a day and you can kill every hog you can crawl and climb to.  We won’t be able to kill bear but you can video or take as many pictures as you want.  Plan on coming 3 days in a row and if you can make it through the 3rd day I’ll give you $500 bucks for your trouble.  It will be an eye opening experience for you, I promise.
> I will not leave my dogs ever again because someone can’t go any further, make sure you can cover 8-10 miles a day and come enjoy this easy hunting!


I can cover 8-10 miles a day before lunch. If the bear breaks bay and out runs the dogs, I'll carry 2 of em with me while I chase it down! When we're done after the 3rd day I'll take yer $ and pee a steady stream alway across the river! Then we'll see who can outdrink the othern down there in Helen! But let me warn ye, I've never lost a peeing match.


----------



## Joe Brandon

man we're starting to sound like that deer forum now!


----------



## Heath

strothershwacker said:


> I can cover 8-10 miles a day before lunch. If the bear breaks bay and out runs the dogs, I'll carry 2 of em with me while I chase it down! When we're done after the 3rd day I'll take yer $ and pee a steady stream alway across the river! Then we'll see who can outdrink the othern down there in Helen! But let me warn ye, I've never lost a peeing match.



I wouldn’t ask any man to go into Helen.  That’s too severe of a punishment.


----------



## Christian hughey

Al Medcalf said:


> The ignorance of these "Subdivision Daniel Boones" is astonishing.


You boys are quick to throw names out there when opinions dont match up. Just agree to disagree and move on it's not worth it some heads are hard as steel.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> You are projecting your opinion into what I said,  I wasn’t offering help.  Nor did I say you fear anything or anyone.  I was honest and sincere in my offer.  I am extending an olive branch for you to see the other side of what you so vehemently oppose.  Those dogs paid an ultimate price for doing what comes natural to them.  They aren’t forced to give up life and limb but they do so willingly because they are as hard as the game they pursue.  Many of those men are the same way,  yes there are bad apples and ones that ride roads and do very little hunting just like deer hunters and every other walk of life.  You spouted off yet another unfounded opinion about something you admittedly have never experienced.  I was simply offering you an experience so that you could speak about something you had actually done.  The offer still stands!


They aren't forced to give up their life, they are trained to. I understand accidents happen but you have a gun that dog has nothing but what you taught him. Dogs are obedient and will do anything for a little love. Not to sound all peta or nothing just hope you do all you can to keep up with that dog and keep kevlar equipment on them to prevent these accidents. These dogs are no where near as tough as these 3, 4, 500 lbs animals they persue.


----------



## goshenmountainman

strothershwacker said:


> If a dog gets killed trying to bay or tree a meaner nastier animals than itself, then you know it was jam up dog that had no quit in it. Regardless of how I feel bout this hunt, I hate hear bout that.


----------



## NGA44




----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> They aren't forced to give up their life, they are trained to. I understand accidents happen but you have a gun that dog has nothing but what you taught him. Dogs are obedient and will do anything for a little love. Not to sound all peta or nothing just hope you do all you can to keep up with that dog and keep kevlar equipment on them to prevent these accidents. These dogs are no where near as tough as these 3, 4, 500 lbs animals they persue.



Brother, I love you like we should all love our fellow man.  But you are so far off base with your assumption of what hunting with a dog is, I don’t know how to show you.  You don’t train a dog to catch game,  it is something ingrained in their DNA.  We discourage them from pursuing off game but you can’t make a dog chase, run, catch, or tree a bear if they don’t have that desire.  Everyone thinks you just get some dogs and go to catching game,  nothing is farther from the truth.  You don’t train a dog to give up his life nor can you train one how to avoid it.  It is just an unfortunate accident.  Vests on a bear dog would be almost certain death from heat stroke in all but very cool weather.  Nobody wants to lose a dog and it’s a bad deal all the way around.  Those dogs are not forced to do their job, they do it willingly and to deny them the opportunity makes many of them sull up and pout about it.  A lot of us hunt bear and hog with the same dogs,  dogs that aren’t even ruff bay dogs can get caught in bad situations beyond their control.  I don’t ever have a gun during training season and catch dogs off bayed hogs and bear frequently.  I could easily be hurt or even killed.  It wouldn’t be anyone’s fault, just a harsh reality of life.  All you men have some strong beliefs and opinions about something you could never understand unless you lived it yourselves.  It’s easy,  grab you up a well bred pup and in 3-4 years share your view of what starting, training, and finishing a bear dog really is.  It’s easy to tag along with someone who has done all the hard work and see the end result and say “man it’s easy”.  I could say the same thing if I killed a deer out of someone else’s deer stand.  I wouldn’t because I would know nothing comes without sacrifice and hard work by someone.  The reason I take offense to these type statements is because of never having one single person hunt with me and ever say it was easy.  Every one of them has left with a completely different mindset because of the hard work and effort they had had to put forth.  Most if not all leave with an admiration for the dogs and realize there’s a heck of a lot more to it than killing game.  I hope that some day you get a chance to hunt with someone who can show you the extreme work and effort that goes into having good dogs or better yet,  that you get a pup and find out for yourself.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a different opinion.  There is something wrong with sharing biased information about something you have no experience with.


----------



## strothershwacker

I crack a lot of jokes but Joe Brandons right! I'll tell yens all what we need to do. I been studying on it. When they have this hunt next year, at the same time we need to have a bowhunt on the NF outside the wma. All camp together, eat bbq, pot luck, burgers & hotdogs. Pick guitars, swap lies, tell bow hunting stories and hear about all em hound race adventures and thank God to be living in the greatest country on earth as we spend a few days in the woods. That's what we need to do. Get over this mess.


----------



## dmac

Chattahoochee WMA is my favorite WMA. I spend more time on this WMA than any other. I will be the first to say that if the dog hunt had been held  on a different WMA such as Cohutta I would not be following this link right now. Am I against dog hunting bear? NO! Am I against dog hunting bears on Chattahoochee? Absolutely! I have nothing against those of you who bear hunt with dogs. I am against it happening on my favorite hunting grounds the same as some others wouldn't want it on their favorite WMA. I have been hunting Chattahoochee for 40 years. I am still learning some of the areas. My favorite areas I know well. I hunt far from the road most days. I hunt from daylight to dark. I know the lay of the land. I travel in the dark mostly without a flashlight by knowing my area. I know the water sources. I know where the white oaks are. I know what happens when we have a drought year like now and where to find water sources. I know where the few deer we have there normally use. I know where the bear in my area usually feed when food is there. It took me many years to learn this information. I enjoy hunting the same general core area and venturing out as needed to find the game. I took a bear this year the week of the gun hunt. I was far from a road in an area I have hunted dozens of long days. This same general core area has provided many bear, deer, and hogs to me and my brothers, son, and friends over many years. I hunted this same area with my Dad as a teenager. Many fond memories. Now you dog hunters know that you didn't spend years learning this area. You didn't need to. The dogs do all that work with their nose. Now before you jump, I know you spend a lot of time training your dogs. I know you spend a lot of money on equipment and travel. And I know I wouldn't stand a chance keeping up with you. I admire you for all your work and toughness. I know you cover a lot of ground. That doesn't make it any easier for us to loose our favorite hunting grounds after all these years. You guys have been very successfull at thinning out the bears. We as regular hunters don't even come close to that success rate. And I know the rest of this season for me on Chattahoochee is shot. We were seeing lots of bear and fresh sign last week in our area. I'm sure most have been pushed out or shot during this hunt. I know Chattahoochee can recover from this over time but what happens if DNR chooses to continue this nonsense. I know I could change WMA's and go somewhere else and find game. It would be hard. I don't have another 40 years to invest. I don't have the young strong body I used so many years ago to cover miles and miles of hills. Thats not the point. Chattahoochee is my preference. I love it. I know it. It's like giving up a favorite gun. I am not bashing you dog hunters at all. We are all hunters. Maybe this is good for Chattahoochee. I'm not a biologist. I'm just an old local hunter that fell in love with these hills a long time ago. And it's real hard to let go.


----------



## Buckman18

dmac said:


> Chattahoochee WMA is my favorite WMA. I spend more time on this WMA than any other. I will be the first to say that if the dog hunt had been held  on a different WMA such as Cohutta I would not be following this link right now. Am I against dog hunting bear? NO! Am I against dog hunting bears on Chattahoochee? Absolutely! I have nothing against those of you who bear hunt with dogs. I am against it happening on my favorite hunting grounds the same as some others wouldn't want it on their favorite WMA. I have been hunting Chattahoochee for 40 years. I am still learning some of the areas. My favorite areas I know well. I hunt far from the road most days. I hunt from daylight to dark. I know the lay of the land. I travel in the dark mostly without a flashlight by knowing my area. I know the water sources. I know where the white oaks are. I know what happens when we have a drought year like now and where to find water sources. I know where the few deer we have there normally use. I know where the bear in my area usually feed when food is there. It took me many years to learn this information. I enjoy hunting the same general core area and venturing out as needed to find the game. I took a bear this year the week of the gun hunt. I was far from a road in an area I have hunted dozens of long days. This same general core area has provided many bear, deer, and hogs to me and my brothers, son, and friends over many years. I hunted this same area with my Dad as a teenager. Many fond memories. Now you dog hunters know that you didn't spend years learning this area. You didn't need to. The dogs do all that work with their nose. Now before you jump, I know you spend a lot of time training your dogs. I know you spend a lot of money on equipment and travel. And I know I wouldn't stand a chance keeping up with you. I admire you for all your work and toughness. I know you cover a lot of ground. That doesn't make it any easier for us to loose our favorite hunting grounds after all these years. You guys have been very successfull at thinning out the bears. We as regular hunters don't even come close to that success rate. And I know the rest of this season for me on Chattahoochee is shot. We were seeing lots of bear and fresh sign last week in our area. I'm sure most have been pushed out or shot during this hunt. I know Chattahoochee can recover from this over time but what happens if DNR chooses to continue this nonsense. I know I could change WMA's and go somewhere else and find game. It would be hard. I don't have another 40 years to invest. I don't have the young strong body I used so many years ago to cover miles and miles of hills. Thats not the point. Chattahoochee is my preference. I love it. I know it. It's like giving up a favorite gun. I am not bashing you dog hunters at all. We are all hunters. Maybe this is good for Chattahoochee. I'm not a biologist. I'm just an old local hunter that fell in love with these hills a long time ago. And it's real hard to let go.



I agree, dmac. This hunt was drawn up by people who didnt take folks like you into account. Nothing against the houndmen, im getting to join in the action myself, but this was poorly designed and implemented by the State. And, admittedly i dont know the exact count, but can confidently say at least 33 bears have been killed on Chattahoochee at the midway point of this hunt on a ~25,000 acre wma. Thats more than 1 bear killed per 1000 acres. The rest of your season will be a reflection of the impact from this weeks visiting hunters.


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## CornStalker

It sounds like we need to have big ol' BBQ in the spring time at the Chattahoochee. Let's invite the bow hunters, the dog hunters, the rifle hunters, and the DNR. I bet we could have some good discussions. Maybe a few adult beverages could be shared to help folks put down their clubs and pitchforks.


Then we can all unite and go storm the Bavarian village!


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Brother, I love you like we should all love our fellow man.  But you are so far off base with your assumption of what hunting with a dog is, I don’t know how to show you.  You don’t train a dog to catch game,  it is something ingrained in their DNA.  We discourage them from pursuing off game but you can’t make a dog chase, run, catch, or tree a bear if they don’t have that desire.  Everyone thinks you just get some dogs and go to catching game,  nothing is farther from the truth.  You don’t train a dog to give up his life nor can you train one how to avoid it.  It is just an unfortunate accident.  Vests on a bear dog would be almost certain death from heat stroke in all but very cool weather.  Nobody wants to lose a dog and it’s a bad deal all the way around.  Those dogs are not forced to do their job, they do it willingly and to deny them the opportunity makes many of them sull up and pout about it.  A lot of us hunt bear and hog with the same dogs,  dogs that aren’t even ruff bay dogs can get caught in bad situations beyond their control.  I don’t ever have a gun during training season and catch dogs off bayed hogs and bear frequently.  I could easily be hurt or even killed.  It wouldn’t be anyone’s fault, just a harsh reality of life.  All you men have some strong beliefs and opinions about something you could never understand unless you lived it yourselves.  It’s easy,  grab you up a well bred pup and in 3-4 years share your view of what starting, training, and finishing a bear dog really is.  It’s easy to tag along with someone who has done all the hard work and see the end result and say “man it’s easy”.  I could say the same thing if I killed a deer out of someone else’s deer stand.  I wouldn’t because I would know nothing comes without sacrifice and hard work by someone.  The reason I take offense to these type statements is because of never having one single person hunt with me and ever say it was easy.  Every one of them has left with a completely different mindset because of the hard work and effort they had had to put forth.  Most if not all leave with an admiration for the dogs and realize there’s a heck of a lot more to it than killing game.  I hope that some day you get a chance to hunt with someone who can show you the extreme work and effort that goes into having good dogs or better yet,  that you get a pup and find out for yourself.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a different opinion.  There is something wrong with sharing biased information about something you have no experience with.


No sense in beatin each other up and acting like you know it all because you dont I'm sure of that! Neither do I, how is my info biased just because you dont agree. I have run hogs and seen good dogs in action. Never bears but I know when you run dogs you do what you can to keep up and limit the time these animals are bayed you also protect your dogs, I agree it needs to be cooler for the dogs to wear the protection, another reason the hunt should be pushed back a bit. We are all fellow hunters but dont act like your opinion is the only correct one. Again just agree to disagree if you dont like what us bow hunters have to say. My head can be hard as your at times.


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## strothershwacker

CornStalker said:


> It sounds like we need to have big ol' BBQ in the spring time at the Chattahoochee. Let's invite the bow hunters, the dog hunters, the rifle hunters, and the DNR. I bet we could have some good discussions. Maybe a few adult beverages could be shared to help folks put down their clubs and pitchforks.
> 
> 
> Then we can all unite and go storm the Bavarian village!


Just break out the bottle Hoss, I'll tell you bout the Drifting Cowboy Band.....


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## Timberman

I’m mad I didn't know anybody who was drawn so I could have gone.


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## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> No sense in beatin each other up and acting like you know it all because you dont I'm sure of that! Neither do I, how is my info biased just because you dont agree. I have run hogs and seen good dogs in action. Never bears but I know when you run dogs you do what you can to keep up and limit the time these animals are bayed you also protect your dogs, I agree it needs to be cooler for the dogs to wear the protection, another reason the hunt should be pushed back a bit. We are all fellow hunters but dont act like your opinion is the only correct one. Again just agree to disagree if you dont like what us bow hunters have to say. My head can be hard as your at times.



Not beating you up at all,  you don’t feel it’s poor judgement to make assertions about something you’ve never done?  I wouldn’t tell you how to do your job.  Heck, I wouldn’t even tell you how to train a bear dog and I’ve done it.  That’s because I know there is far more to it than what most people will ever realize.  I don’t know it all.  I do know a thing or two about bears, most of which,  many on here will never know.  Why,  because I spend 200+ days a year with them and in close proximity to them.  Both in a tree stand and behind dogs. In multiple states.  My opinions are just that, opinions.  But they come from 20 years of absolute dogged pursuit both still hunting and running dogs.  I am both and can accurately share my opinion because I hunt both ways and can see the pros and cons to both sides.  How can you and I have a discussion where we relay our experiences when you have none in one half of the discussion.  I don’t claim to be the best or know the most,  but I can and have had knowledgeable conversations with biologists, still hunters, and hound men in 10 different states.  Its always the ones who have never done much that give the most trouble,  they are entitled and think there opinions should count for more than science or facts.  I enjoy poking at these threads because it’s the same few over and over and over again that have their feathers ruffled.  I agree with you,  your opinions weigh just as much as mine.  Your facts don’t hold water!  Being hard headed is a great thing and I’m glad you’ve got some backbone about you.  When you get those good dogs trained up,  come up and we’ll make a lap and talk.  Who knows,  we might even stumble across some of this easy to catch game.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Somebody pass the popcorn ! I am out !




Nevermind......I found some !


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Not beating you up at all,  you don’t feel it’s poor judgement to make assertions about something you’ve never done?  I wouldn’t tell you how to do your job.  Heck, I wouldn’t even tell you how to train a bear dog and I’ve done it.  That’s because I know there is far more to it than what most people will ever realize.  I don’t know it all.  I do know a thing or two about bears, most of which,  many on here will never know.  Why,  because I spend 200+ days a year with them and in close proximity to them.  Both in a tree stand and behind dogs. In multiple states.  My opinions are just that, opinions.  But they come from 20 years of absolute dogged pursuit both still hunting and running dogs.  I am both and can accurately share my opinion because I hunt both ways and can see the pros and cons to both sides.  How can you and I have a discussion where we relay our experiences when you have none in one half of the discussion.  I don’t claim to be the best or know the most,  but I can and have had knowledgeable conversations with biologists, still hunters, and hound men in 10 different states.  Its always the ones who have never done much that give the most trouble,  they are entitled and think there opinions should count for more than science or facts.  I enjoy poking at these threads because it’s the same few over and over and over again that have their feathers ruffled.  I agree with you,  your opinions weigh just as much as mine.  Your facts don’t hold water!  Being hard headed is a great thing and I’m glad you’ve got some backbone about you.  When you get those good dogs trained up,  come up and we’ll make a lap and talk.  Who knows,  we might even stumble across some of this easy to catch game.


I enjoy  these discussions and appreciate  your point of view. My assumption is clear and valid as yours. I have a hound at home, wouldn't tree a flea because he was trained to be a fat lazy house dog. Your dog is trained on bear, not to say he doesn't  love it, heck they are just crazy as us but I'm also sure that dog doesn't truly know he is about to corner something 20 times his size. Not saying your wrong for putting him in that situation at all. I love hunting period, of any kind and would not mind seeing this in action for myself. Guess we can talk more about it at next year's annual bear bbq.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Dad says they have got two so far today and on a third now.


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## splatek

goshenmountainman said:


> Dad says they have got two so far today and on a third now.



Just from Chattahoochee? 
Any data on Chestatee? 
And how many bears are actually, or were, actually in Chat WMA?


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## NGA44

I checked one in at Chestatee yesterday afternoon. There were 36 total killed. 33 were from Chattahoochee and only 2 of those were male, the rest were females.


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## tree cutter 08

Those numbers show just how out of wack the bears population is. Most were small to from what I've heard.


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## j_seph




----------



## Timberman

NGA44 said:


> I checked one in at Chestatee yesterday afternoon. There were 36 total killed. 33 were from Chattahoochee and only 2 of those were male, the rest were females.



So only 3 off of Chestatee?


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## Heath

Timberman said:


> So only 3 off of Chestatee?



Dang it man,  that seems awful lopsided!  Did Chestatee have some no shows?  I mean I know they had a lesser quota number but 33/3 is unreal.


----------



## Joe Brandon

Heath said:


> Dang it man,  that seems awful lopsided!  Did Chestatee have some no shows?  I mean I know they had a lesser quota number but 33/3 is unreal.


Chestatee doesn't have nearly the road system and the woods are much deeper. It is also a much more vertical landscape than the hooch.


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## Christian hughey

NGA44 said:


> I checked one in at Chestatee yesterday afternoon. There were 36 total killed. 33 were from Chattahoochee and only 2 of those were male, the rest were females.


Hooch proves itself year after year. Hope this does some good for the boar - sow ratio. Would definitely like to see some heavy weight fat head boars killed.


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## Christian hughey

Joe Brandon said:


> Chestatee doesn't have nearly the road system and the woods are much deeper. It is also a much more vertical landscape than the hooch.


Hard to believe they are side by side you would think more than 3 off that property but the harvest numbers are always much lower on chestatee


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## goshenmountainman

Heath said:


> Dang it man,  that seems awful lopsided!  Did Chestatee have some no shows?  I mean I know they had a lesser quota number but 33/3 is unreal.


There were some no shows but I am not sure where they were.


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## goshenmountainman

splatek said:


> Just from Chattahoochee?
> Any data on Chestatee?
> And how many bears are actually, or were, actually in Chat WMA?


Yes, they are only hunting the hooch.


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## strothershwacker

So 30 sows where kilt and none of them had small cubs? That's funny. Seems like every other sow I see has cubs.


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## Christian hughey

strothershwacker said:


> So 30 sows where kilt and none of them had small cubs? That's funny. Seems like every other sow I see has cubs.


I was wondering that myself?


----------



## GAbullHunter

Christian hughey said:


> I was wondering that myself?


Cubs must have already been taken, therefore sow with no cubs now. That how it works


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## Bkeepr

There is a stretch of the AT where bear-proof containers are mandatory for backpacking food.  Has anyone tried hunting that area?


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## gobbleinwoods

Bkeepr said:


> There is a stretch of the AT where bear-proof containers are mandatory for backpacking food.  Has anyone tried hunting that area?



Baiting is still illegal.


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## Heath

GAbullHunter said:


> Cubs must have already been taken, therefore sow with no cubs now. That how it works



I wasn’t there nor have I seen any of the bears,  but someone told me the majority were like 115-120 pound sows.  That would be mostly adolescent sows and they don’t get bred often at that age and weight.  Some of them could have been but it sounds like a bunch of adolescents were killed and that makes sense in an overpopulated area.  Ask how many tickets have been issued for killing lactating females as it is against the law.  No need for a witch hunt!


----------



## GAbullHunter

Heath said:


> I wasn’t there nor have I seen any of the bears,  but someone told me the majority were like 115-120 pound sows.  That would be mostly adolescent sows and they don’t get bred often at that age and weight.  Some of them could have been but it sounds like a bunch of adolescents were killed and that makes sense in an overpopulated area.  Ask how many tickets have been issued for killing lactating females as it is against the law.  No need for a witch hunt!


So thats how it works then. I'll be sure to check for milk before I shoot a sow with no cubs no matter the age.


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## splatek

OK, this thread is making me think of this:


----------



## humdandy

strothershwacker said:


> So 30 sows where kilt and none of them had small cubs? That's funny. Seems like every other sow I see has cubs.



Please check logic at the door when discussing rules/Regs/DNR decisions.  You will find it much easier to understand.  Thanks.

If those sows had first year cubs.......they are as good as dead.  And yes........I'd be willing to bet the majority of them had cubs.


----------



## Gator89

splatek said:


> OK, this thread is making me think of this:



How do they get milk from almonds?


----------



## humdandy

Gator89 said:


> How do they get milk from almonds?



Udders.......hope this helps.


----------



## ddd-shooter

Man, ya'll seriously doing some keyboard game-warden-ing in here. 
Go kill a bear. Its supposed to cool off this weekend.


----------



## strothershwacker

Adolescent bears huh. All of em. Hehehehe.


----------



## strothershwacker

120lb bear can't have cubs. Hehehehe.


----------



## Joe Brandon

Now back to your regularly scheduled hunting season already in progress.


----------



## Christian hughey

Joe Brandon said:


> Now back to your regularly scheduled hunting season already in progress.



Aight Ima let one fly! Good luck.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Female black bears usually are not mature till 3-5 years, they don't breed until they are mature, so I would say 100-175lb. bears are not over three years old and haven't been bred. If a female bear is over 3-5 years of age and weighs in at less than 200 lbs. she will not breed, she has to be in ultimate shape for her age before she will go into heat. Ha! I knew some of this reading about bears would come in handy one day!


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## strothershwacker

Ive seen a bear I thought was a cub come out of the brush only to see 3 puppy sized cubs come out right behind her. She'd barely made 100#. I didn't read about it. I saw it.


----------



## GAbullHunter

ddd-shooter said:


> Man, ya'll seriously doing some keyboard game-warden-ing in here.
> Go kill a bear. Its supposed to cool off this weekend.


All in the fun. While we awaited turn out. Let's get em in the books to.


----------



## Heath

goshenmountainman said:


> Female black bears usually are not mature till 3-5 years, they don't breed until they are mature, so I would say 100-175lb. bears are not over three years old and haven't been bred. If a female bear is over 3-5 years of age and weighs in at less than 200 lbs. she will not breed, she has to be in ultimate shape for her age before she will go into heat. Ha! I knew some of this reading about bears would come in handy one day!



Exactly what I was getting at.  Not that it doesn’t happen, but it’s far from normal for an adolescent sow to be bred.  Another thing most don’t understand is that mature bear get that way for a reason just like any animal.  When the pressure starts being applied,  big mature bear leave fewer tracks and know how to avoid that pressure. The fact that they are still bringing in bear at a high rate on this small of an area leads me to believe a great number are adolescent bears this late into the hunt.  Not to mention the difference in transient and resident bear.  Our population is so out of whack it stands to reason a bunch are transients that wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time.  I’ve still not seen anyone hunting a large portion of Chestatee that should have been combed over which makes me think it either didn’t have many hunting it or had no shows.


----------



## Heath

GAbullHunter said:


> So thats how it works then. I'll be sure to check for milk before I shoot a sow with no cubs no matter the age.



You do realize cubs spend 2 years on average with there mother.  When they are finally ran off, if, she runs them off when she becomes receptive again.  Those females are normally 3 before they become sexually active if not older.  Can they be bred younger, absolutely.   But, it is not the norm.   As to your remark,  I don’t kill treed sows.  Ever.  Nor would I knock out a 125 pounder.  Don’t care if you do or don’t.  You keep shooting sows and I’m sure you’ll eventually have a problem.  It’s not something I have to worry about.

The numbers make me wonder why so many young females and almost zero males.  Were the 2 males killed, big old mature bear?  Some really interesting data is being compiled from this hunt which is what the biologists wanted.  Sounds like it will be a great step in the right direction for further management of a more healthy and stable bear population which will result in a more balanced ecosystem for all wildlife.  Isn’t that what we all want?


----------



## goshenmountainman

strothershwacker said:


> Ive seen a bear I thought was a cub come out of the brush only to see 3 puppy sized cubs come out right behind her. She'd barely made 100#. I didn't read about it. I saw it.


If she was that small the cubs didn't make it, sounds like she was an old sow, that was on the downhill of life. The book I was talking about says they are not sexually mature until at least three years old. Most bear around here that are less than 3 years old are in that 100-150lb. range. There could be a strange case that one matured earlier, you know how nature is, blind sides you when you least expect it. I have saw lots of things in the woods that puzzled me, I was just trying to share what I had read, sorry, I wasn't trying to dispute what you were saying, just sharing a book fact I had learned.


----------



## Heath

Goshenmountainman,  does that book give a predation percentage of adult males on cub crop?  I know they kill them when given the opportunity.  I don’t think Georgia has enough research on our bears to have that information pertaining to our population specifically but I can’t remember the research data.  I always felt it took large mature boars to do that to a female unless a small boar just happened across the right opportunity.  It would make sense to me that with overpopulation and smaller average size boars we would have less boar/cub predation.  Further adding to radical population swings.  It’s like ponds with overpopulated small bass.  The population is unhealthy and can’t support proper growth to full potential.  Reduce the numbers and they can grow larger but you will not have the numbers.  Somewhere in the middle lies the appropriate balance.  I’m in hopes that given time,  this management tool will help restore that balance which will be much better for the mountain in the long run!


----------



## GAbullHunter

. Good luck hunters


----------



## goshenmountainman

Heath said:


> Goshenmountainman,  does that book give a predation percentage of adult males on cub crop?  I know they kill them when given the opportunity.  I don’t think Georgia has enough research on our bears to have that information pertaining to our population specifically but I can’t remember the research data.  I always felt it took large mature boars to do that to a female unless a small boar just happened across the right opportunity.  It would make sense to me that with overpopulation and smaller average size boars we would have less boar/cub predation.  Further adding to radical population swings.  It’s like ponds with overpopulated small bass.  The population is unhealthy and can’t support proper growth to full potential.  Reduce the numbers and they can grow larger but you will not have the numbers.  Somewhere in the middle lies the appropriate balance.  I’m in hopes that given time,  this management tool will help restore that balance which will be much better for the mountain in the long run!


It did, I gave the book along with the rest of the books to good will. I can't remember what it said about the boars killing the cubs, it has been three years since I read it. It was a series of wildlife books, bear,deer,moose, and elk. I can't remember who wrote them, it was like an infomational series.


----------



## goshenmountainman

Dad said yesterday evening there had been 54 bear taken, he said they got two more today and another groups dogs joined theirs and treed another one and the other group got it, so thats at least 57 today,and still got one more day.


----------



## strothershwacker

That's a pile of bears. Everyone send Mr.Bowers a thank you card.


----------



## Rulo

57 bears?  From which WMA? Whats the breakdown?

Anybody have the stats of the number of out of state hunters / Georgia Resident hunters?


----------



## tree cutter 08

That's a bunch of bears from one area. With that said it shows just how high the population is. That is why there are hardly any deer there. I know a lot of folks like the bears, I do to and enjoy hunting them but I'm glad to see them go. You got 4 big areas surrounding hooch and while 50 something bears seems like a lot it's a drop in the bucket. They will be just as thick next year. Now if we could figure out a way to get rid of that many yotes! Think about how many crossed the boundaries and got away, and how many are still there that survived the hunt. I'm curious as to what the dnr had estimated the total harvest would be?


----------



## humdandy

tree cutter 08 said:


> That's a bunch of bears from one area. With that said it shows just how high the population is. That is why there are hardly any deer there. I know a lot of folks like the bears, I do to and enjoy hunting them but I'm glad to see them go. You got 4 big areas surrounding hooch and while 50 something bears seems like a lot it's a drop in the bucket. They will be just as thick next year. Now if we could figure out a way to get rid of that many yotes! Think about how many crossed the boundaries and got away, and how many are still there that survived the hunt. I'm curious as to what the dnr had estimated the total harvest would be?


I've asked. Nobody seems to know.  This was like shooting fish in a barrel. I'd be willing to bet half the population on chatt. Is gone now.


----------



## tree cutter 08

humdandy said:


> I've asked. Nobody seems to know.  This was like shooting fish in a barrel. I'd be willing to bet half the population on chatt. Is gone now.


I'd doubt it. These days you go hunting and see all you see is bears especially this time of the year. I can remember when I started hunting you would go to the woods and see 8 or 10 deer, a couple of bear and a hog or 2 all in the same day if you did your homework. Whatever the balance was then was perfect. Very fun exciting days in the woods. Now if you want to kill a bear, you go find the sign and he will be there shortly. Deer or a good buck on the other hand is a different story. You'll work your tail of to make that happen.


----------



## Joe Brandon

That is more bear taken then in the last four of five years. That's awesome! I can't believe that many bear are in there. And yes that is a very high number but as mentioned it just goes to show the obscene amount of bear in the area. If anything this hunt has shown that there is a ton of work to do up there and this very much seems to me to be a step in the right direction. Hate that it cut into bow season but it was far more productive, and I mean farrrr more productive than anything we could have done. Wasn't a single bear taken from that WMA during bow last year. Honestly sorry I knocked it as hard as I did now. I proved to be wrong.


----------



## strothershwacker

After hearing the numbers, I'm just embarrassed that I hunted that place a day and a half without killing one.?


----------



## Christian hughey

Joe Brandon said:


> That is more bear taken then in the last four of five years. That's awesome! I can't believe that many bear are in there. And yes that is a very high number but as mentioned it just goes to show the obscene amount of bear in the area. If anything this hunt has shown that there is a ton of work to do up there and this very much seems to me to be a step in the right direction. Hate that it cut into bow season but it was far more productive, and I mean farrrr more productive than anything we could have done. Wasn't a single bear taken from that WMA during bow last year. Honestly sorry I knocked it as hard as I did now. I proved to be wrong.


Sitting on hooch nf in the rain. Yesterday was very productive, seeing 5 deer 1 was a very nice buck that winded me from 150 yds out and skirted around me. No bears yet, waiting patiently. Cool weather has the deer on their feet atleast.


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## Heath

Wonder how much this study will be modeled after Zager and Beechams article about the role of American black bears and brown bears as predators of ungulates in North America?

They found that bear predation on fawns was typically additive to population mortality.  However,  bear predation had a much greater role where ungulate density was sparse and an even greater impact when ungulate numbers were very low and bear numbers high.  The study shows that greatly reducing predator numbers is only a short term fix as habitat restoration has to occur as well to boost any population in ungulates.  Hence the reason this season was introduced as a 2 year trial.

Looking back, the state has done everything it could to help boost harvest numbers over the past few years. They gave everyone an extra tag,  and they lengthened bear season.  Still,  hunters couldn’t impact numbers enough for them to even start any research.  

I’m typically very critical of our biologists and DNR.  Not this time.  Whatever you are trying to accomplish,  this hunt was a rousing success for a multitude of reasons.


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## strothershwacker

Heath said:


> Wonder how much this study will be modeled after Zager and Beechams article about the role of American black bears and brown bears as predators of ungulates in North America?
> 
> They found that bear predation on fawns was typically additive to population mortality.  However,  bear predation had a much greater role where ungulate density was sparse and an even greater impact when ungulate numbers were very low and bear numbers high.  The study shows that greatly reducing predator numbers is only a short term fix as habitat restoration has to occur as well to boost any population in ungulates.  Hence the reason this season was introduced as a 2 year trial.
> 
> Looking back, the state has done everything it could to help boost harvest numbers over the past few years. They gave everyone an extra tag,  and they lengthened bear season.  Still,  hunters couldn’t impact numbers enough for them to even start any research.
> 
> I’m typically very critical of our biologists and DNR.  Not this time.  Whatever you are trying to accomplish,  this hunt was a rousing success for a multitude of reasons.


10% of the hunters kill 90% of the game.....unless there's dogs involved.


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## strothershwacker

Whats done is done. Im interested in seeing where the DNR takes it from here. With the numbers posted I'm assuming every party got a bear or 3 or 4. Sounds like somebody shoulda been running a camara all week. Sure woulda made for some entertaining YouTube videos! To all that had the privilege to take part in it, ESPECIALLY the kids congratulations!


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## goshenmountainman

humdandy said:


> I've asked. Nobody seems to know.  This was like shooting fish in a barrel. I'd be willing to bet half the population on chatt. Is gone now.


No Way! Have you ever even hunted that place? I quit hunting it about 10 years ago because every time I went all I would see is bears. That place use to have some great bucks and I have killed a few in my life there. It got to where you would go hunting, see four or five bear and no deer. And went from seeing deer trails to nothing but bear trails, I guarantee 60 bears ain't even a quarter of the bear that live there.


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## Buckman18

goshenmountainman said:


> No Way! Have you ever even hunted that place? I quit hunting it about 10 years ago because every time I went all I would see is bears. That place use to have some great bucks and I have killed a few in my life there. It got to where you would go hunting, see four or five bear and no deer. And went from seeing deer trails to nothing but bear trails, I guarantee 60 bears ain't even a quarter of the bear that live there.



This right here.

I haven't even seen a deer TRACK during the 7 days ive bow and dog hunted there the entire bow season. I turkey hunted there the entire turkey season, until i tagged out in late April and didnt see a single deer, and I speck fished there all summer. Also, for work I commute from Habersham to Towns County. I havent seen a deer along the hwy for miles on the northern edge of the wma (hwy 75) in more than 5 YEARS...

The last deer I can actually recall seeing on the wma was back in January. Granted, there are a few deer that live lower on the wma around Alt 75, but I seldom frequent that area because its gets too much attention. 

Ive seen bears on almost every trip to the wma.


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## Timberjack86

Heath said:


> Must have been so easy, them dogs laid down and died!  Would you be open to coming up for a hunt sometime?  I’ll gladly dispel your fears of anything being easy about mountain hunting with a dog.  I’ll even take care of 3 meals a day and you can kill every hog you can crawl and climb to.  We won’t be able to kill bear but you can video or take as many pictures as you want.  Plan on coming 3 days in a row and if you can make it through the 3rd day I’ll give you $500 bucks for your trouble.  It will be an eye opening experience for you, I promise.
> I will not leave my dogs ever again because someone can’t go any further, make sure you can cover 8-10 miles a day and come enjoy this easy hunting!


I'm down, when you wanna go? Your welcome to come hunt with us in TN. After 3 days I will be looking for my $500!! If you can hang with us that long.


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## Heath

Timberjack86 said:


> I'm down, when you wanna go? Your welcome to come hunt with us in TN. After 3 days I will be looking for my $500!! If you can hang with us that long.



Thank you for the invite,  the offer was for him because he thinks this is easy or unfair.  Unfortunately,  I don’t take fellow dog hunters because they typically show up with a tribe and lay claim to anywhere I’ve ever taken others through the years.  I already have a few places I hunt in Tn. so no need for me to hinder you.
NC is about to open as well so you won’t have to worry about me on here for the next couple months.  Hopefully,  May or so before it slows back down.  Good luck this year


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## Timberjack86

Heath said:


> Thank you for the invite,  the offer was for him because he thinks this is easy or unfair.  Unfortunately,  I don’t take fellow dog hunters because they typically show up with a tribe and lay claim to anywhere I’ve ever taken others through the years.  I already have a few places I hunt in Tn. so no need for me to hinder you.
> NC is about to open as well so you won’t have to worry about me on here for the next couple months.  Hopefully,  May or so before it slows back down.  Good luck this year


Yeah I was just kidding you, I hunt with a buddy who has dogs, I haven't shot one yet. I want to kill my first bear just me and the bear. Dog hunting is fun and extremely demanding. It ain't easy. But I'm up for $500 anytime!!


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## Christian hughey

If anyone can come up with the final number checked in as of this evening let us know. Last I saw on here we were near the 60 mark. I think this is an insane number to harvest for 2 weekends. Great job hound hunters. I hope to see some good pics, maybe read up on it in GON next month. Not to say it's a cake walk but the results spoke loud and clear the dogs are the deciding factor in killing a mass number of bears. Wish I had a nose like that on me!!!!


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## strothershwacker

I'm gonna train a dog to run deer, then maybe he'd tree a coon.    
                                     - Jake Clayton


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## Mark K

Curious to see if this helps any with your deer population. I realize habitat is the main issue, but removing that many bears has to help to some degree.


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## JN86

I know that bear kill fawns but they are big, big competition for food when they can sit in a oak and clean up the acorns before they hit the ground.


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## Heath

Timberjack86 said:


> Yeah I was just kidding you, I hunt with a buddy who has dogs, I haven't shot one yet. I want to kill my first bear just me and the bear. Dog hunting is fun and extremely demanding. It ain't easy. But I'm up for $500 anytime!![/
> 
> You and me both brother.  If you are hunting TN much I feel like you’d be earning easy money here.  We have some ruff here in Georgia but nowhere near the amount of it that TN and NC have.
> 60 is a huge number compared to past averages.  You also have to take into account that there has never been a group of any hunters show up in numbers or hunt as many hours as those men did this week on Chattahoochee.  They hunted daylight till dark and obviously weren’t very selective (I don’t know if that was encouraged or not).  You give Goshenmountainman, treecutter, and 88 of their closest friends that are bear killers the green light and they hunt daylight till dark for 9 days on Chattahoochee and you’d see a similar number.  Maybe not 60 but they could kill close to that many if they weren’t worried about sex or size.  The overwhelming data point I see is this group worked at it a lot harder than a typical group does.  Yes, hound hunting has a higher success rate.  However, it’s not because of ease or the dogs doing all the work.  It’s mostly due to the nature and way they go about it.  10 men in a group hunting all day to kill one or two bears equals 100-200% success.  Where 10 good bear hunters should easily be able to kill 2 bears archery hunting a full day almost anywhere in North Georgia. Don't let the numbers muddy the water.  Never have I seen hunters stacked in this WMA like there was this week.


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## wks41

Well I feel bad for the guys trying to hunt bears after this massacre.


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## Buckman18

wks41 said:


> Well I feel bad for the guys trying to hunt bears after this massacre.



Yeah, im not gonna bowhunt it any more this year. I think itll be a waste of time. My group killed 9 bears and a big rattler with dogs, which is the hunt of a lifetime. Im glad the hunt was a success for our group.

Ill be back in November to try for a big buck i found last year. I havent been back to that area since January,  and, assuming he is still around, im gonna go for him. Ive never deer hunted Chattahoochee, just bowhunted bears the past 3-4 yr, and I want a rack on my wall from there and Warwoman. Those 2 are missing from my collection.


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## Jspear09

wks41 said:


> Well I feel bad for the guys trying to hunt bears after this massacre.


Dont be we didnt hurt them at all still plenty off bear


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## Jspear09

Christian hughey said:


> Just bothers me that buckman is the only known Ga hunter and he got an invite by an out of state party. I agree that this need to be a resident hunt and wheres our spring season, I'm sure we have just as much support as the doggers.


10 resident and 5 non resident where drew for the hunt


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## Christian hughey

Jspear09 said:


> 10 resident and 5 non resident where drew for the hunt


If you have verifiable info on that, that would be ok. I would like even like to see the out of staters only get 2 spots. Or none, guess I'm greedy too. Nonresident should never be priority over a resident in any state.


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## coonhuntor

GAbullHunter said:


> Wonder if any of those doggers recovered the one I couldn't find..


We killed a bear with a Broadhead, and piece of broken arrow in it. Send me a picture of the arrow you were shooting, and I will tell you if we got the bear you shot.


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## Heath

coonhuntor said:


> We killed a bear with a Broadhead, and piece of broken arrow in it. Send me a picture of the arrow you were shooting, and I will tell you if we got the bear you shot.



Notice how this man didn’t condemn bow hunters or throw them under the bus about being inhumane or unethical for participating in the same sport using a different method.  A fine example some could take to heart.


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## StikEm

Short article published yesterday...someone shot one of the tracked bears during archery season...hmmmm wonder who that was 
https://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_...icle_2c73f749-e76f-55cb-ab16-c79f001dde7b.html


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## Christian hughey

StikEm said:


> Short article published yesterday...someone shot one of the tracked bears during archery season...hmmmm wonder who that was
> https://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_...icle_2c73f749-e76f-55cb-ab16-c79f001dde7b.html


Interesting read. Like the collared bear research!


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## coonhuntor

61 bears was the total as of about 4:00 Sunday evening when I checked our bear. That’s a total from both Wma’s combined. I am a GA resident. My wife was drawn for the hunt. I have hunted and killed bear off of chattahoochee wma for years now. I love that wma. I will be writing post as soon as I get time (very busy at work after the hunt) giving my first hand experience of the hunt.


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## Gator89

Christian hughey said:


> Interesting read. Like the collared bear research!



No comments yet, 1 angry emoji.


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## Gator89

StikEm said:


> Short article published yesterday...someone shot one of the tracked bears during archery season...hmmmm wonder who that was
> https://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_...icle_2c73f749-e76f-55cb-ab16-c79f001dde7b.html



HMMM, I wonder when the first use of dogs to hunt bear in the GA mountains really took place?


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## Heath

Interesting read.  The biologists stated from the beginning that this hunt would have no impact on population and it keeps making more and more sense.  61 additional bears taken that would have otherwise been in single digits that week.  61 additional bear taken would be no different than typical up swings in harvest numbers statewide due to whatever natural phenomena occurs.  Hammond said they wanted to maintain or slightly reduce population.  Well done DNR!


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## Joe Brandon

You mean to tell me the bear biologists may know what he's doing? Well I'll be darned. Reading the opening to this thread you would think all bears east of the Mississippi were all but desimated haha!


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## Buckman18

StikEm said:


> Short article published yesterday...someone shot one of the tracked bears during archery season...hmmmm wonder who that was
> https://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_...icle_2c73f749-e76f-55cb-ab16-c79f001dde7b.html



They wanted me to do a new TV series complete with a full executive level endorsement package, but I do what I do for love of the game, not the money. Besides, Im a very busy man.


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## Buckman18

Come to think of it, I may need to reconsider... I could use a new truck after crunching a big doe last Saturday night.  Another forum member said my truck is on aim!


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## Christian hughey

Joe Brandon said:


> You mean to tell me the bear biologists may know what he's doing? Well I'll be darned. Reading the opening to this thread you would think all bears east of the Mississippi were all but desimated haha!


Wrong thread I opened just telling everyone to have a fun safe weekend and it grew from there to another thread that mentioned hunting them while you still can!!! Lol


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## Joe Brandon

Buckman18 said:


> They wanted me to do a new TV series complete with a full executive level endorsement package, but I do what I do for love of the game, not the money. Besides, Im a very busy man.


Hey pass it on I'll do


Christian hughey said:


> Christian my bad Haha! I thought this was the now infamous thread from yest!


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## splatek

Dang @Buckman18  kills more things with his truck than I do hunting.
I'm retiring.
Nice knowing y'all
Haha


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## GAbullHunter

coonhuntor said:


> We killed a bear with a Broadhead, and piece of broken arrow in it. Send me a picture of the arrow you were shooting, and I will tell you if we got the bear you shot.


Naw unfortunately it was during the rifle hunt. Searched for hours in an out of the brush.


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## kevin17

They need one on Cohutta WMA and the national forest in Fannin Murray and Gilmer counties


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## splatek

"The 61 bears taken were 12 males and 49 females. From Chattahoochee WMA, 49 bears were killed, while 12 were taken on Chestatee WMA."

- Just curious is this distribution - roughly 4:1 ratio - of bears on Chat to Chest representative of the general population or bear density on those two WMAs?


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## Buckman18

splatek said:


> "The 61 bears taken were 12 males and 49 females. From Chattahoochee WMA, 49 bears were killed, while 12 were taken on Chestatee WMA."
> 
> - Just curious is this distribution - roughly 4:1 ratio - of bears on Chat to Chest representative of the general population or bear density on those two WMAs?



I don't think Chestatee got as much pressure. The road system is much better in Chattahoochee, which is a huge and unique advantage with dogs.


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## Christian hughey

Half as many hunters and think someone mentioned there were no shows for chestatee hunt as well not 100% on that, added to limited access. Who knows I'm already looking forward to next bow season.


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## splatek

Thanks fellas.
My biggest lesson learned this season is I need to scout more in the off season.


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