# The Atmosphere in This  Forum Has Changed



## boparks (Feb 5, 2010)

I've  been here almost a year and realize I'm coming up on my 1000th post.

Out of those 1000 this will likely be my first negative one and one that is sure to draw fire.

That said I'm gonna state what I believe many others here think.

Without question the overall atmosphere in here has changed a ton over the past few weeks.

In the past it's mostly consisted of respectful, positive, constructive comments with many debates and opinions. 
If someone kills a bird eveyone high fives em . New or less experinenced folks are encouraged to chime iand no one has seemed to be shy about asking or stating anything with a lot of particpation.      

Its been rare that comments became  personal, arrogant,  or insulting. For the most parts differences in opinions have followed reasonable tracks and if they went too far the Moderators or Administrators stepped in and re gained control. Quite frankly I've been surprised at whats been allowed to go on.

I realize forums mean different things to different people and we're in here for a variety of reasons.  

For me I just like being around good people and turkey folks and talking about serious and not so serious about topics. I've  learned alot from others here and have made a number of friends. 

I know my reasons are different than others. 

I realize there are huge differences in opinion and often  by pushing a discussion everyone really thinks things thru and some minds are changed and others don't

Lately it's been much different in that many posters's comments are responded to in a way that totally disregards,  insults, and is unnessarily arrogant. It seems like some here show a general disrespect and go out of your way to insult people for no aparent reason.

I simply don't understand the purpose of these type of responses and I certainly don't at all understand why some of whats gone on here has been allowed and tolerated. I know a couple of Mods have made an effort.

I  believe that you're seeing alot less posting by some of the regulars and others that brought alot into this place as they don't want to be constantly exposed to riducule. 

For some reason I've not had the pleasure of being insulted but I realize its coming now.

I only post this because I've observed all thats gone on here, see that what was a great forum, has been depreciating and hope that some ground rules or control will be regained. I hate to see habitual, insulting, negative  comments continue to a point it's just the norm here

Before someone states it, I realze no one has a gun to my head and I don't have to be here. 

Simply put, its just getting old and I think some should learn to show a little respect and realize there are ways and thoughts beyond their own as to how to get enjoyment out of hunting turkeys.

I realize I've just posted a big bullseye on my back but whatever. 

If nothing else this should be an interesting post.


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Feb 5, 2010)

2nd that.


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## Resica (Feb 5, 2010)

Some people apparently can't help the arrogance and childlike behavior.


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## dawg2 (Feb 5, 2010)

It would make the MODS job a lot easier if everyone was civil.


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## ALLBEEF (Feb 5, 2010)

Had several smart alec responses and negative post driven towards me in the last few weeks - makes me mad
Good post - agree 100%


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## Huntinfool (Feb 5, 2010)

Bo,

Man, I wish I could say it was just this year.  But it's not.  It's been happening for several years now.  

From my perspective, the "harder core" turkey hunters are over here most of the year.  But, come January, when deer season finishes, a bunch of other turkey hunters come on in and we get a much bigger group frequenting the area.

Unfortunately, I'm seeing more of the hardcore folks get uncivil in recent years.  I just kind of chalk it up to growing pains and try to ignore as much as possible.

I wish there was a solution....but there likely isn't.  It's still the best board on the internet as far as I'm concerned though.


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

ALLBEEF said:


> Had several smart alec responses and negative post driven towards me in the last few weeks - makes me mad
> Good post - agree 100%




Me too....I don't let it make me mad though.


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## Gaswamp (Feb 5, 2010)

things get a little heated every year in this forum.  As long as it doesn't become personal good debate is alright IMHO


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## ryano (Feb 5, 2010)

Could very well be the best post I have ever read on this forum     it needed to be said.

I always read but never participate............Just feel so inferior to the know it alls. 

I have only been hunting turkeys for about 5 years. I have killed two and called in one for a friend that missed.

I ALWAYS felt comfortable asking newbie questions around here until this place changed.

Glad somebody finally had the courage to say what Im sure so many of us think


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## returntoarchery (Feb 5, 2010)

boparks,

Well said. Turn that bullseyed back to me so I can pat you on the back.


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## Gut_Pile (Feb 5, 2010)

Good post Mr. Bobby. I've been on here for 3 years come march and it happens every year it seems like. Some people just get on here to stir the pot. Eventually they will say too much and get banned. It's just a matter of time. Just like how we had TEM2 last season. He eventually went to far and now he's gone. The mods will only take negativity from one person for so long. I have always tried my best to congratulate people and thank people for sharing their info. You can search my post to find this true. This is still a great place and I've made some great friends. I am on the forum pretty much on and off from 10am until sometimes 2 the next morning and stay on the turkey forum year round. It will clear up some once turkey season gets here. Right now some people have nothing better to do than stir the pot and criticize people that don't shoot what they shoot or hunt the way they hunt. Good post Mr. Bobby and I too hope things get cleared up pretty soon.


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## Core Lokt (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm new to the turkey hunting section and haven't been around that long, actually I'm new to turkey hunting only having 4 seasons behind me but I can see somewhat of a "clique" with some. Some point out things such as mis spelling words and the like and don't answer the question asked or give advice. It still isn't as bad at the waterfoul section though. I personally look at hunting forums as a place for people to ask questions, get answers or oppinions, share about our hunts and have discussions. I know everyone is different and so are attitudes and not everyone will get along but you gotta try or keep it to yourself.  Season is almost here guys


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## georgia_hunter (Feb 5, 2010)

Well I try not to get involved in post's like this but I could not keep my mouth shut. I agee 100% I have been on the waterfowl forum and it has gotten to the point where you are scared to even post anything about what you have shot because someone will start something. I bounce back and forth a good bit between these sites and I hate to say it, but this one is heading in the same direction. I will not ever post anything negative about anyone's kill or their hunt. But it seems some people look for stuff on here to low rate you about. I know the MODS do a great job and at times have there hands full. Well I guess to make a long story short. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL....


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## BPR (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree that the entire forum has changed and has been changing over time.  I guess its due to the size.  

As I stated in the thread a couple of weeks ago, I wish that the mods would tighten down on some of those that make people not feel welcome.  But another option for all of us is the ignore list.  You can add these people to the ignore list and not even see their post.  Or you can just ignore their posts on your own, but if they stop getting the attention, then they will go find somewhere else to get the attention from.  

But I'd also agree that it will only get worse the closer it gets to season.


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## bird_dawg (Feb 5, 2010)

Agree with all that has been said. I'm a newbie as y'all can tell by my join date and I have seriously enjoyed reading and learning from y'all. No one has attacked me personally yet, but who cares about a big bad internet bully? I've enjoyed it.


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## ALLBEEF (Feb 5, 2010)

Turkey Comander said:


> Me too....I don't let it make me mad though.



I try not too - but you can only kick an old dog so many times before it bites!


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## ryanwhit (Feb 5, 2010)

Mr. Bobby, I agree completely.  Unfortunately I have let myself get drawn in to some of the nonsense that has taken place over the last month or so.  Sometimes people are so arrogant that I just have a hard time keeping my mouth shut.  I too try to congratulate folks on successful hunts and stories and trophies, whatever that may be for them.  

I guess the easy way to solve this problem is the old adage "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything."  And in this case you could prolly substitute "constructive" or "worthwhile" for "nice."


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## dawg2 (Feb 5, 2010)

Huntinfool said:


> Bo,
> 
> Man, I wish I could say it was just this year.  But it's not.  It's been happening for several years now.
> 
> ...



Funny thing is, there is a VERY SIMPLE solution.  If EVERYONE would use their ignore button on the folks that bother them, they will go away after no one responds to them.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Feb 5, 2010)

I've been a member of this forum for a very long time, I WAS a mod for a while but felt it was necessary to give that up.  Unless you have been a mod on this forum, you have no idea the crap you have to deal with.  The administration has tried to make this a family oriented forum so that a diversity of people will feel welcomed.

Every year, about this time, it starts to heat up in this particular forum; I'm seeing names I've never seen before.  That's fine and dandy, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.  Some are new members, some are older members that are seasonal.  Doesn't matter, it's a public forum.

I don't care what someone's experience level is; I don't care if you have killed 100 birds, you had to start somewhere.  I believe it is incumbent upon the more experienced turkey hunters to share their knowledge and experience, I believe that is one of the main purposes of this forum.  True, there are some who are here to prove that they know more than the next guy, we get them every year and they usually don't last long.  I have refrained from posting a few times because the advice already given is either exactly or very similar to what I would have said and therefore I would have added nothing to the conversation.  I was taught an old saying a long time ago "the only dumb question is the one you don't ask".


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## Toddmann (Feb 5, 2010)

Great post. So many different ways to hunt the wild turkey and love to read all the stories. It sure would be nice if everyone here could remember that all the different styles and ways of hunting is what makes it enjoyable and educational. Thisvwill be my 25th year hunting this bird and I am still learning. Hope I haven't offended anyone on here over the years. If so, just send me a pm and I will let ya take me hunting at your best spot so I can apologize.


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## J.W. (Feb 5, 2010)

Well said Bobby. We have just recently lost a member in the fishing forum due to what you're talking about. By the way, I can't believe you took that long shot on that bird in Montana, that was unethical!

Just kidding Brother....I like what you said.

Jason


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## BrowningTech (Feb 5, 2010)

Turkey Comander said:


> Me too....I don't let it make me mad though.





oh please, your at the root of it all!


Like Nic said, your word play isn't fooling anyone


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## 01Foreman400 (Feb 5, 2010)

You should have been here a couple of years ago......talk about the good ole days.  Man it sure was nice. I joined this forum in 2001.  

It seems like now a lot of folks are joining just to start trouble.  The mods do a great job at keeping everything cleaned up around here.  It's just a lot of negative talk now days.


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## jharrell (Feb 5, 2010)

Great post Mr. Bobby. I have to agree with some of the others, I to have gotten caught up in some of the craziness on here. I have now learned just to look and and move on.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 5, 2010)

Turkey Comander said:


> Me too....I don't let it make me mad though.





I gotta give ya credit my man.....that was funny right there.


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## BrowningTech (Feb 5, 2010)

boparks said:


> I've  been here almost a year and realize I'm coming up on my 1000th post.
> 
> Out of those 1000 this will likely be my first negative one and one that is sure to draw fire.
> 
> ...





couldn't have said it better

You mind if I use this post in a complaint I plan on sending over to GON and the administrator?


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

You think it's right for guys to openly accuse me of breaking the law when I post a picture of a few dead turkeys ?


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Good post...I am just waiting for the "beginners shouldn't kill jakes" argument that pops up every year.


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## boparks (Feb 5, 2010)

Browning Tech,

Feel free to


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## BrowningTech (Feb 5, 2010)

boparks said:


> Browning Tech,
> 
> Feel free to






Done! 


 sent complaint to all the admins and will be sending one to Brad at GON as well.


thanks


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

Be sure and bring to their attention where you've attacked me personally


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> Good post...I am just waiting for the "beginners shouldn't kill jakes" argument that pops up every year.



If I take out somebody this year and they haven't ever killed a bird and a Jake shows up.... I'd be dissapointed if they didn't shoot him!    You hear me Steven?


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 5, 2010)

Too much drama for a friday evening.   Must be due in part to crappy weather and pre turkey season cabin fever.


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## Gaswamp (Feb 5, 2010)

sterlingworth got banned yesterday....one of tbgators reincarnations got banned the other day....it'll get better.


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

Well written Bobby.  There are some who, for whatever reason, recently started spending more time on here than on some of the other forums they frequent.  I am a member (I guess you could call me a lurker) of a few other forums but this is the only one I post on.  Lately this forum has started to become a lot like some of the others out there... hmm, wonder whY?  

There is room for everybody of all opinions and schools of thought on this forum.  I respect and appreciate hearing othErs' opinions and in some cases I have to admit tHey sometimes make me stop and rethink some things.  But the thing that makes this forum the best is the civility and respect members show for each other.  We can thank the mod's for this because they have not tolerated anything less.

Another thing is I think everyone is just keyed up this time of year in anticipation of turkey season.  February is always the worst and slowest month of the year.

And for the record, I thought TEM2 was a riot!  He was just goofy as heck.  Nobody took him seriously, which is why he lasted as long as he did (under that particular alias).  But I do understand why he had to go.


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

Why would Sterlingworth get banned ?


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## rex upshaw (Feb 5, 2010)

Turkey Comander said:


> Be sure and bring to their attention where you've attacked me personally



    or how about how you like to trash lovett williams, eddie etc.?  come on frAnk, you bring this on yourself and you love it.  you do this in every forum you have ever been on and this is yet another example.


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## mauser64 (Feb 5, 2010)

If yall want to see bad go hang out in the waterfowl forum for awhile! I think this forum is okay for the most part. I see some stuff now and then that makes me scratch my head but I don't know anybody here personally and can't tell if some of this stuff is serious or if it's just a bunch of buddies trying to get each others goat so to say. This place isn't any different from everyday life in the world, some people you like and some people you don't and some people are just plain old rear ends. I like this forum and look forward to checking it out every day. Hope it don't go away!


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

Gaswamp said:


> sterlingworth got banned yesterday....one of tbgators reincarnations got banned the other day....it'll get better.



I had a feeling TS was TB reincarnated.  So if that is the case, who was SW? ...maybe JJ?


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> Well written Bobby.  There are some who, for whatever reason, recently started spending more time on here than on some of the other forums they frequent.  I am a member (I guess you could call me a lurker) of a few other forums but this is the only one I post on.  Lately this forum has started to become a lot like some of the others out there... hmm, wonder whY?
> 
> There is room for everybody of all opinions and schools of thought on this forum.  I respect and appreciate hearing othErs' opinions and in some cases I have to admit tHey sometimes make me stop and rethink some things.  But the thing that makes this forum the best is the civility and respect members show for each other.  We can thank the mod's for this because they have not tolerated anything less.
> 
> ...



TEM2 was funny. he was WAY to over the top to take seriously and you knew the knew he was full of it.  It's the ones that actually believe their own legend that makes things difficult.  Nobody is in a Ivory tower here.


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

rex upshaw said:


> or how about how you like to trash lovett williams, eddie etc.?  come on frAnk, you bring this on yourself and you love it.  you do this in every forum you have ever been on and this is yet another example.



You seem to have some chip on your shoulder with me for some reason. Even after all the times you goaded me have I ever said a bad word about Rex Upshaw....

I don't agree with things Lovett Williams has said and don't believe in the HS Stutt whinning call...but I've not tried to personally trash anyone. 
There's a difference in having an oppinion and trashing someone.


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## Turkey Comander (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> I had a feeling TS was TB reincarnated.  So if that is the case, who was SW? ...maybe JJ?



The guy was too smart to be Tbgator


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow, that was quick....


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## sman (Feb 5, 2010)

Good post I agree 100%, some people live to stir pots.

I miss TEM2's post as well, they were a hoot to read.  "Wonder how long the beard was on the gobbler that Noah had on the ark," posted by TEM2....classic.


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

I do thInk tHe gUy cOuld hAve hAd sOmE woRthwHilE inpUt. It's jUst a shAmE hE coUldN't pLay nIce.


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## sman (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> Wow, that was quick....



No kidding!!!!


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## trkyhntr70 (Feb 5, 2010)

boparks said:


> I've  been here almost a year and realize I'm coming up on my 1000th post.
> 
> Out of those 1000 this will likely be my first negative one and one that is sure to draw fire.
> 
> ...



Hey Bobby,
This post is sad but very true. There are a few here that are obviously trying to run this forum into the ground and seem to be doing a fine job of it.
This used to be one of my favorite forums but due to all the "garbage" that we have aquired it has become one of my least favorite..
It seems to be a new fight everyday....
 I hope things get back to the way they were. NWTF's forum got rid of them and put a stop to this problem.
I hope we can take out the trash.


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## sman (Feb 5, 2010)

You are posting to someone who just got banned.  Just letting you know.


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## rex upshaw (Feb 5, 2010)

Gatorb said:


> well at this point i would say that this thread has become just as bad as the problem the original poster was addressing....
> 
> Just sayin'....



looks like things are improving already.


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## Snedley (Feb 5, 2010)

Some people just don't get it.


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## fatboy84 (Feb 5, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> It would make the MODS job a lot easier if everyone was civil.



Yeah....Remember that


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd like to thank Bobby.....for beginning....such a....impactful thread.


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## BPR (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> Wow, that was quick....



** Poof **


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## silvestris (Feb 5, 2010)

Frankly, I haven't seen anything that caused me any serious concern.  I have seen some heated debates that gave me much food for thought.  If I think someone is dead wrong on what they have posted I may respond with what I believe to be truth.  If a forum is nothing but a lovefest, it is not a fourm and there will be little to learn about the complex habits of this great bird and the best ways to beat him at the game.  I don't know, maybe my skin is just a little thicker than the average Joe.


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## Double Gun (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> Some people just don't get it.



That is right Snedley.


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## Double Gun (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> Frankly, I haven't seen anything that caused me any serious concern.  I have seen some heated debates that gave me much food for thought.  If I think someone is dead wrong on what they have posted I may respond with what I believe to be truth.  If a forum is nothing but a lovefest, it is not a fourm and there will be little to learn about the complex habits of this great bird and the best ways to beat him at the game.  I don't know, maybe my skin is just a little thicker than the average Joe.




X2 there.


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## silvestris (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> Some people just don't get it.



Snedley,  just because I changed my signature doesn't mean that my registered trademark is no longer valid.

How you doing?


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## ryanwhit (Feb 5, 2010)

whoa.  I predict the forum will begin to return back to normalcy.


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## Arrow3 (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like the admins swung a sharp axe today while I was at work...


There will be others to follow if they can't behave.....


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## Robk (Feb 5, 2010)

Been here for a few years myself and it goes up and down with the seasons.  I don't post as much as I used to but I hit three forums daily.  Here, Ducks and Deer.  This one is by far the most civil of the three but there is a hiccup from time to time.  It will pass like a bad mexican dinner sooner then you think.


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> Frankly, I haven't seen anything that caused me any serious concern.  I have seen some heated debates that gave me much food for thought.  If I think someone is dead wrong on what they have posted I may respond with what I believe to be truth.  If a forum is nothing but a lovefest, it is not a fourm and there will be little to learn about the complex habits of this great bird and the best ways to beat him at the game.  I don't know, maybe my skin is just a little thicker than the average Joe.



I can't argue with this.  As much as I didn't want to see it in the beginning, the gUy's points often did have some merit.

It's just too bad he couldn't get his points across in a reasonable manner the way normal people do.



by the way... what is there to get?


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## Snedley (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> Snedley,  just because I changed my signature doesn't mean that my registered trademark is no longer valid.
> 
> How you doing?



Doing great sir, How about yourself? 

That sig still rings true so I still use it.


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## bnew17 (Feb 5, 2010)

I havent read all the posts yet...but all i can say is i sure hope this part of the forum doesnt turn into what the duck hunting part is. There is so much negativity over there its not even funny. To me , as far as information goes, this is the best part of the forum. Hopefully it will stay that way.


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## Snedley (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> I can't argue with this.  As much as I didn't want to see it in the beginning, the gUy's points often did have some merit.
> 
> It's just too bad he couldn't get his points across in a reasonable manner the way normal people do.
> 
> ...



Something that will (A)greatly add to your turkey hunting confidence (B) get peoples drawers all wadded up,people bowed up and ready to fight like you slapped their pregnant grandma (C) get you banned from here(and other places) for stating your opinion if the wrong person feels the least bit slighted....for starters.


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## Gut_Pile (Feb 5, 2010)

Gut_Pile said:


> Some people just get on here to stir the pot. Eventually they will say too much and get banned. It's just a matter of time.



Didn't take long for this statement to be proven true. 

I knew it would be just a matter of time. We've all seen it too much to know it was coming.


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## silvestris (Feb 5, 2010)

Unfortunately, the mods just banned one of the most knowledgeable turkey hunters in the country.  Perhaps he could have gotten his points over with a little more tact, but the man knows his turkeys and I find him very entertaining.  Hope I don't get banned for my position.


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## MKW (Feb 5, 2010)

*...*



Snedley said:


> Something that will (A)greatly add to your turkey hunting confidence (B) get peoples drawers all wadded up,people bowed up and ready to fight like you slapped their pregnant grandma (C) get you banned from here(and other places) for stating your opinion if the wrong person feels the least bit slighted....for starters.



Yep! Evidently, it doesn't pay to voice an opinion that differs from the majority on here. It seems to hurt people's feeling an awful lot. I get the feeling that it's more about who you argue with rather than what you argue about. Sad.

Mike


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## DBrannon (Feb 5, 2010)

I was just talking with my dad about this subject earlier this week. I joined this forum last year to gain information about turkey hunting because my buddies told me there were a good group of guys on here that would not mind sharing all the info I could handle. However, I have noticed the different atmosphere this year and I haven't spent much time on the forum this year because of this. It just isn't worth my time everyday to try and ready through certain threads with all the negativity being brought up. Last year, I could not get enough of this forum right before Spring and throughout the rest of the season. Even after the season was over, this forum was dead but still a place where you could go to talk turkey. I'm not pointing out any individuals but this year certain people just made it a pain to read through the different threads each day. I use to get on here everyday but all the negativity ran me off. Hopefully, it will get better throughout the season, as most people will be spending more time in the woods. Thank you Mr. Bobby for finally bringing this to light.


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## Dupree (Feb 5, 2010)

MKW said:


> Yep! Evidently, it doesn't pay to voice an opinion that differs from the majority on here. It seems to hurt people's feeling an awful lot. I get the feeling that it's more about who you argue with rather than what you argue about. Sad.
> 
> Mike



yup!!


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## boneboy96 (Feb 5, 2010)

I am not a turkey hunter...I am not a deer hunter...and I am not a duck hunter...therefore I can't offer up any experiences and wisdoms learned over my 55 years.   I am however, a good hunter of steals and deals...so I stay in the S&S forums mostly.   Be that as it may, I can come along at any point in time and find myself either in a hostile environment or a friendly environment.  From past experience, I enjoy the friendly atmosphere way more and I hope all of you do to.   If you have any issues that you want addressed that you feel might not sit well out here in the open forums, feel free to PM any of the Mods or Admins and we'll see what we can't do for you.   We are here to make this the most enjoyable family friendly website on the WWW.  And we do it voluntarily, with no financial gain or reward of any kind except the good feeling left over from helping someone out.   Just don't post an ad in the S&S and forget to post a price...


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## TenPtr (Feb 5, 2010)

Good post Bobby.  I agree with you all the way.  
       Once the season finally gets here there will be less input and derogatory comments from the pre season big shots and know it alls.  The old veterans and motivated youngsters will share their experiences and success stories/pics from opening day - the last minute of season and beyond.  The nay sayers and pot stirrers will be discarded as season progresses and overall lack of success reveals their true colors.  Some will cheat in the challenge and others will claim birds that they had no part of just in a pathetic effort to compensate for all they have said prior to the season.  These guys are easy to pick out here on the forum and many have already been identified over the past month.  Every year its the same non sense. However  in the end, it will be the same old crowd as always talking turkey, telling tales as they unfold each morning, and laughing over how humbling and unpredictable a bird with a pea sized brain can be.  There will be a few new faces in the mix as newbies evolve into addicts based on similar experiences that made addicts out of us.


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## BrowningTech (Feb 5, 2010)

MKW said:


> Yep! Evidently, it doesn't pay to voice an opinion that differs from the majority on here. It seems to hurt people's feeling an awful lot. I get the feeling that it's more about who you argue with rather than what you argue about. Sad.
> 
> Mike




Opinion! yeah right, he did a lot more than give an opinion!

 what's sad is people with an attitude like yours that feel it's ok for someone to constantly degrade people with comments that don't involve opinions at all.


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## greybeard (Feb 5, 2010)

I am not new toTurkey Hunting,but I am new to the forum.I can see that things were starting to change from when I first started reading the threads.I do not reply alot but when I do I try to stay away from the negative side of any topic.I enjoy hunting with and sharing ideas and stories with people who also love this sport.This is common ground for all of us,so let's enjoy it.


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## FLGobstopper (Feb 5, 2010)

mauser64 said:


> If yall want to see bad go hang out in the waterfowl forum for awhile!



You can say that again! I only really started turkey hunting not that long ago really, in fact this season will be my 10th. Before that and for 3 or 4 years after I was a die-hard waterfowler. I still love it, but one of the things I immediately noticed when I started turkey hunting was the difference in the people I would run into while in the woods. I also noticed a huge difference in online forums because I joined a few and learned a ton those 1st few seasons and people were very, very helpful. The waterfowl forums and turkey forums seemed to me then to be like night and day different with the types of comments and they way people treated one another. It always seemed to me that there was just this arrogance surrounded around it that quite frankly has just turned me off from waterfowling  some.

I will say that for the most part this still seems true to me. I have noticed that there is a little more of that arrogant attitude that I've run into over the past few years. Hopefully it's not me (it could be) and I hope it's just people with all the pent up pre-season frustration letting loose and it will all calm down here soon. One thing someone said on another forum I read and I think is right on is that, "most of the people who bicker back and forth around here would probably be best friend sitting around a camp fire if ever given the chance". I hope that's true! I also hope to continue to get to know some fellow turkey hunters with the same passion for a great sport as myself and enjoy many more great spring seasons.


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## Wacenturion (Feb 5, 2010)

From a real outsider in a different state..........man you guys almost appear worst than the problem you were referring to.  Forums are not meant to be a big cumbyea's, they are an exchange of ideas from different viewpoints.  Everyone has a different personality and approach, and although TC's comments in some threads might be taken as stirring the pot or verbally beating up on someone, or whatever the person's complaint, I just didn't see it.  Maybe I'm too laid back and thick skinned as someone else had mentioned about themselves.

Good example was a thread regarding judging trumphet calls at the National and winning or placing which I believe TC referred to as not really meaning much as the judges don't know how to run a trumphet.  Nothing wrong with that statement...just being honest.  Blunt...yes, honest....yes.  Otherwise as someone said you can become "beware-arized" quite easily buying pretty....useless...turkey calls.

Boy I thought our forums out here, which are also a family type, could get goofy at times, but quite a few of our members would be banned in short order here for having some of their opinions.

You know, I really enjoy this forum and the people and it gives me a different perspective on things  from one geographic area to another.  However, banning someone after a thread is started and people pile on somehow just doesn't feel right.  Almost like cutting off TC's right to rebutal of anything people were saying about him.  That's a poor example of free speech.     

I can understand swearing, cursing, calling people names, being a downright idiot, etc., but because someone is frank (no pun intended), in a response....that's no reason to get your shorts in a knot.  Might add from my limited time on the board (1 year), I think Tbgator got more respect and longevity.  Must be his humor which people enjoyed that kept him around longer.....again, I don't know.  You know even gator offered something different.  I'm sure many of you like me, in a sick kind of way, looked forward to what enlightened turkey tips he might have left for us upon returning to the turkey forum.    

Hope I didn't offend, but probably did.  Just trying to show that even on this forum people view comments, and in this case TC's differently.  Flame away, that is if I'm still welcome and still here.


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## boneboy96 (Feb 5, 2010)

greybeard said:


> I am not new toTurkey Hunting,but I am new to the forum.I can see that things were starting to change from when I first started reading the threads.I do not reply alot but when I do I try to stay away from the negative side of any topic.I enjoy hunting with and sharing ideas and stories with people who also love this sport.This is common ground for all of us,so let's enjoy it.



Let's enjoy it...good words to live by.  Thanks Mark!


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## Gecko (Feb 5, 2010)

I really enjoy this forum.  But will tell you that I find myself ignoring some of the replies.  There is no reason for some things that are said.  It is always the same folks doing it.  You would think that as experienced and seasoned as some folks claim to be they would exercise a little humility, and appreciate the fact that there are other folks in this world that love hunting turkeys too.  My hats off to the moderators in having to deal with this stuff, not a particularly easy job.  I agree some folks need to learn how to speak to others.  boparks, I appreciate your saying what needed to be said.


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## dwills (Feb 5, 2010)

This was inevitable to say the least. This board doesn't need the arrogance expressed by TC in nearly all of his posts. I have no doubt that he was a very knowledgeable turkey hunter, but his degrading and negative comments in no way benefitted anyone but himself. It was getting to the point where people were scared to post in fear that TC would point out how inexperienced and bad of a turkey hunter they were. If the banning of people like this enables fellow turkey hunters to ask questions and get answers to benefit their turkey hunting experience, then it is well worth it. This forum will be a better place without him.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> Unfortunately, the mods just banned one of the most knowledgeable turkey hunters in the country.  Perhaps he could have gotten his points over with a little more tact, but the man knows his turkeys and I find him very entertaining.  Hope I don't get banned for my position.



I totally agree. LF is an under appreciated asset. Is he a curmudgeon?? Certainly. 

Is he someone that everyone here (if they could put aside their own egos) can learn from? DEFINITELY.

I get slammed often here and on other sites for sharing my experiences and "real world" knowledge.. It's sad that folks act one way behind a computer and a different (and more polite and respectful way) in person.

I won't give out info on the open forum anymore. I learned.

I have met Frank, bought calls from him and LEARNED from his limitless knowledge about hunting wild turkeys..

It's a shame that he won't be able to share here.. 

He did chafe some folks, but I know this much, his opinions, (much like my own) are based on fact and real world experience.

He will kill more legal Gobblers this season than most here will kill in their lives. Difficult for some to choke down, perhaps. But fact nonetheless. 

I just grin when I read some of the posts put up here about how to do this or that, knowing the author hasn't killed more than a handful of Gobblers....

And I shake my head at the same folks cracking on the comments or opinions of the man who has killed hundreds.... it's just disrespectful.

This will be my 32nd year chasing Gobblers. I learn something every season from the birds. Do I know it all?? Heck no. Some of yall need to think about who you are talking down to...

We are blessed with a bunch of great Turkey hunters here- learn from them.

 I would hate to see some of the folks here that can teach and mentor stop posting. We have lost enough of them already.

I truly hope all of you have a great season!!


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> I totally agree. LF is an under appreciated asset. Is he a curmudgeon?? Certainly.
> 
> Is he someone that everyone here (if they could put aside their own egos) can learn from? DEFINITELY.
> 
> ...



Call me old fashioned, but I don't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he's killed.


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## Dupree (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> Call me old fashioned, but I don't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he's killed.



character and skill are 2 different things!


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## Resica (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> Call me old fashioned, but I don't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he's killed.


That's right.




4x4powerstrokesd said:


> character and skill are 2 different things!



Amen.


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## Newman (Feb 5, 2010)

It really is a shame.  Like some of the other guys here, I've actually spoken to Frank a few times.  I came away with a different perspective about him, one that is very different then what gets thrown around the forums.  He's got a really quick whit, but a somewhat dry one, and truthfully I believe most of what he types is his way of getting the point across- it just comes across the wrong way.  Kind of reminds me off British humor (has anyone here seen "Life of Brian")

From my short exchanges with Frank, I learned quite a bit about turkeys, how they act, and more importantly how to hunt them.


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

4x4powerstrokesd said:


> character and skill are 2 different things!



and TC' character is what is in question..not his skill.


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## Dupree (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> and TC' character is what is in question..not his skill.



people are saying that a skilled and knowledge filled member that comes off the wrong way was lost. dont think anyone said hes a great guy since he is a turkey killer. did i miss something?


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## silvestris (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> Call me old fashioned, but I don't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he's killed.



No, you can't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he has killed, but you can dang sure judge his expertise so long as his kills have been legal and by sporting means, and Frank's have.


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## Resica (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> No, you can't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he has killed, but you can dang sure judge his expertise so long as his kills have been legal and by sporting means, and Frank's have.


Kudos to Frank! WooHoo


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## short stop (Feb 5, 2010)

It does get trival   sometimes  . I think  the influx of various  things   like the TC contest  with  prizes   and   the   constant  attemps  of  those who have been banned   time after time  has started to show  some  or the  rough  patches of the forum ..

 I hope  the sharp edge   will   fold  over  with  the Spring  season on the way   shortly .. It tends  to be seasonal   from my exp in reading the  post in the box here for the past   7 yrs . 

   This forum  has grown  so much  over the  yrs .. Back in day   PRE 2004   this forum    was   a mere handful of folks  . Today   51K mems .. 

  There    have been  some very insightful  folks  who have recently been banned .   They might have  come off brash and  resistant    on various  issues   but   they   did  have an impact  on the conversations . Im  actualy  going to miss   the   jabs  ..



  Thats   about all I can  add..


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

4x4powerstrokesd said:


> people are saying that a skilled and knowledge filled member that comes off the wrong way was lost. dont think anyone said hes a great guy since he is a turkey killer. did i miss something?





I was referring to the tounge lashing from Nitro about how he'll kill more gobblers this year than most of us ever will.  Maybe true...but is that what matters??


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## ryanwhit (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> Is he someone that everyone here (if they could put aside their own egos) can learn from? DEFINITELY.
> I have met Frank, bought calls from him and LEARNED from his limitless knowledge about hunting wild turkeys..
> 
> It's a shame that he won't be able to share here..
> ...



I wish he shared more information when he was here...seemed to me it was mostly snide remarks, backhanded compliments, and a good bit of arrogance.  It was like instead of using a perfectly good platform to share tons of valuable information, he just talked down to folks who did it differently.  I have no doubt the man is a turkey killer.  I'm just saying that I wish he shared gobbler killing tactics instead of peeing on everyone elses...


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## Resica (Feb 5, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> I wish he shared more information when he was here...seemed to me it was mostly snide remarks, backhanded compliments, and a good bit of arrogance.  It was like instead of using a perfectly good platform to share tons of valuable information, he just talked down to folks who did it differently.  I have no doubt the man is a turkey killer.  I'm just saying that I wish he shared gobbler killing tactics instead of peeing on everyone elses...



Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!


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## Dupree (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> I was referring to the tounge lashing from Nitro about how he'll kill more gobblers this year than most of us ever will.  Maybe true...but is that what matters??



apparantly not here.


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

silvestris said:


> No, you can't judge a man's character by how many gobblers he has killed, but you can dang sure judge his expertise so long as his kills have been legal and by sporting means, and Frank's have.



I respect him for that.  I never had a cross word for TC..other than I thought he was TB for a minute.  I think the O'l gaurd gets tunnel vision sometimes...about how things should be, the best calls, etc.  A little bit of diplomacy goes along way.


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## Snedley (Feb 5, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> I wish he shared more information when he was here...seemed to me it was mostly snide remarks, backhanded compliments, and a good bit of arrogance.  It was like instead of using a perfectly good platform to share tons of valuable information, he just talked down to folks who did it differently.  I have no doubt the man is a turkey killer.  I'm just saying that I wish he shared gobbler killing tactics instead of peeing on everyone elses...



That's exactly what he was doing most of the time. But as has been said before was a little blunt and that got some riled up to the point that they missed or didn't want to hear/read the point being made. JMO. Ya gotta spend a little time with some folks to see where they're coming from or see when they're BSing....I don't think he was given enough time. I say apologise and Reinstate his account.


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## Wacenturion (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> That's exactly what he was doing most of the time. But as has been said before was a little blunt and that got some riled up to the point that they missed or didn't want to hear/read the point being made. JMO. Ya gotta spend a little time with some folks to see where they're coming from or see when they're BSing....I don't think he was given enough time. I say apologise and Reinstate his account.




Agree..........


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## ryanwhit (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> That's exactly what he was doing most of the time.



If that's what he was doin', then my little brain missed it.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> I was referring to the tounge lashing from Nitro about how he'll kill more gobblers this year than most of us ever will.  Maybe true...but is that what matters??



It matters to those who hope to learn how to kill Turkeys. Which group are you in?


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## dawg2 (Feb 5, 2010)

bnew17 said:


> I havent read all the posts yet...but all i can say is i sure hope this part of the forum doesnt turn into what the duck hunting part is. There is so much negativity over there its not even funny. To me , as far as information goes, this is the best part of the forum. Hopefully it will stay that way.


The waterfowler forum is much better.  The Turkey talk forum will do nothing but improve


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> That's exactly what he was doing most of the time. But as has been said before was a little blunt and that got some riled up to the point that they missed or didn't want to hear/read the point being made. JMO. Ya gotta spend a little time with some folks to see where they're coming from or see when they're BSing....I don't think he was given enough time. I say apologise and Reinstate his account.



I would agree with you.  I enjoy picking up things from the vets.  Turkey hunting is an evolution one goes through.  I wish TC would understand some of the less experienced guys need time to evolve.  For example, I've always killed em with production calls.  Just this year, I ordered my first 2 custom pots from Tim (RutnStrut) because Nitro had spoken highly of them in an old thread and I had reached that point in my evolution.  Some guys are just not meant to be teachers I guess.


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## rex upshaw (Feb 5, 2010)

Snedley said:


> I say apologise and Reinstate his account.



now that's funny.


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## Newman (Feb 5, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> If that's what he was doin', then my little brain missed it.




Ya- you did....


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> It matters to those who hope to learn how to kill Turkeys. Which group are you in?



I like to kill em, Nitro.  Your one of the guys on here I pay close attention to and I take the things you say as fact.  But, even you are sometimes set in your ways...right?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Personally I would rather spend the day with a first time turkey hunter who has a ground blind under one arm, a sack full of the latest squeeling hens under the other, and who doesnt know squat but has a great attitude and treats people with respect than a condescending, arrogant, blowhard whoever they may be and however many turkeys they have killed. I would rather spend my time on this forum the same way. Just my opinion.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> I like to kill em, Nitro.  Your one of the guys on here I pay close attention to and I take the things you say as fact.  But, even you are sometimes set in your ways...right?



No, I am too intelligent for that. I don't let my ego prevent me from learning- from anyone.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

WaltL1 said:


> Personally I would rather spend the day with a first time turkey hunter who has a ground blind under one arm, a sack full of the latest squeeling hens under the other, and who doesnt know squat but has a great attitude and treats people with respect than a condescending, arrogant, blowhard whoever they may be and however many turkeys they have killed. I would rather spend my time on this forum the same way. Just my opinion.



Duly noted..........

I would prefer a nice mix of both.


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## ryanwhit (Feb 5, 2010)

Newman said:


> Ya- you did....



such is life...


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

jbird1 said:


> I would agree with you.  I enjoy picking up things from the vets.  Turkey hunting is an evolution one goes through.  I wish TC would understand some of the less experienced guys need time to evolve.  For example, I've always killed em with production calls.  Just this year, I ordered my first 2 custom pots from Tim (RutnStrut) because Nitro had spoken highly of them in an old thread and I had reached that point in my evolution.  Some guys are just not meant to be teachers I guess.



You will enjoy the calls from Tim. Great choice.

Something else to consider in reference to your comments about "some guys are just not meant to be teachers".....

Not every Student is capable of learning- no matter who the instructor is. Just something to think about......for all of us.

Have a great season!!


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## boparks (Feb 5, 2010)

It doesn't really matter how good someone is at what they do if they aren't going to communicate it in a way others can learn from it. Its even worse if the method results in pushing the ones that can learn from them away and flat out offends 90% of the folks around here. 

People can say what they want but theres just been no need for some of whats gone on. There'll always be riffs but folks shouldn't either be afraid to post or interact here.

I had no idea what was going to happen when I posted this this morning other than it would be open season on me. Theres not just one person thats operated this way. I was not trying to get anyone banned but I was trying to draw some attention to the subject with hopes of finding a way to get a handle on it.

I guess it got attention.

I was just tired of wacthing folks get hammered for anything. This morning someone mentioned they rode a bicycle to cover ground and they were pretty much  assaulted or at least the responses wrere completely unnecessary
Seems to me the ones that stand to learn and gain here are folks that are new to ity and young people. If you can't help them in a construtive way or run em off we're not accomplishing much in that regard

Theres plenty of slayers here that are glad to share and teach and people are completely comfortable asking questions and without fear of being berated

I have no doubt that TC has probably killed more turkeys than we'll ever see or hear, and it would have been nice if he'd come across in a way that taught others. Some of you guys that support him I know are absolute slayers and you guys have plenty to share if you will.

I hope that this place will get back to more of what it was.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

I ride a bike to some Gobblers. Deadly tactic...

Frank has a low tolerance for being questioned or attacked for stating his experience. I don't blame him one bit.


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## jbird1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> You will enjoy the calls from Tim. Great choice.
> 
> Something else to consider in reference to your comments about "some guys are just not meant to be teachers".....
> 
> ...



Oh, It's gonna be a rough couple weeks waiting on those calls.  Tim was super nice and helped point me in the right direction for sure.  I hear ya also.."you can lead em to water..."

Good luck to you too.


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## M Sharpe (Feb 5, 2010)

browningtech said:


> oh please, your at the root of it all!
> 
> 
> Like nic said, your word play isn't fooling anyone



amen


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## Gadget (Feb 5, 2010)

boparks said:


> It doesn't really matter how good someone is at what they do if they aren't going to communicate it in a way others can learn from it. Its even worse if the method results in pushing the ones that can learn from them away and flat out offends 90% of the folks around here.
> 
> People can say what they want but theres just been no need for some of whats gone on. There'll always be riffs but folks shouldn't either be afraid to post or interact here.
> 
> ...







Bobby are you and Andy gonna be able to hunt together after this...?  If you have an opening give me a call.......


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> Frank has a low tolerance for being questioned or attacked for stating his experience. I don't blame him one bit.



No one likes being attacked or questioned but you've got to realize this is the internet.  It is anonymous for the most part and no one here had a clue who he was and if he was telling the truth.  Heck Nitro, I don't know who you are.  I'm pretty sure I know your name but that is only because I have seen where people have used it on here.  What I do know is that I respect you from the posts I've seen because clearly you have earned it... you have been civil, helpful, generous, and you obviously know a thing or two about killing turkeys.  No one got that from TC.  I get that he is one of the most knowledgeable turkey slayers in the country, I don't doubt it.  But he didn't earn anybody's respect.  And I think he makes the mistake of thinking that he should be well known and instantly respected everywhere he goes.  That is where he is wrong.  I hate it because I was actually beginning to like him and value his opinion, whether I agreed with it or not.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

trkyburns said:


> No one likes being attacked or questioned but you've got to realize this is the internet.  It is anonymous for the most part and no one here had a clue who he was and if he was telling the truth.  Heck Nitro, I don't know who you are.  I'm pretty sure I know your name but that is only because I have seen where people have used it on here.  What I do know is that I respect you from the posts I've seen because clearly you have earned it... you have been civil, helpful, generous, and you obviously know a thing or two about killing turkeys.  No one got that from TC.  I get that he is one of the most knowledgeable turkey slayers in the country, I don't doubt it.  But he didn't earn anybody's respect.  And I think he makes the mistake of thinking that he should be well known and instantly respected everywhere he goes.  That is where he is wrong.  I hate it because I was actually beginning to like him and value his opinion, whether I agreed with it or not.
> 
> There's a lot more I could say but I like this place too much to risk being banned.  But believe me, I have opinions about people and the way things work.  I'm just smart enough to keep them to myself!!!



You make some great points. I agree with most of them.

The one thing I truly despise is the prevailing lack of respect that some folks feel that they can get away with behind the safety of the computer screen.

I appreciate the nice comments. I am always here to help anyone I can- I just do most of it through PMs now...


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

Gadget said:


> Bobby are you and Andy gonna be able to hunt together after this...?  If you have an opening give me a call.......



Heck yeah we will......

I plan to have a few shots of Patron with him in front of a mesquite fire.... Then I will teach him how to run a trumpet call...........(with an LF Cox Trumpet!!!)

It's gonna be another "Jakes" only season in Texas anyhow this year.......you didn't get that memo??


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## Gadget (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> Heck yeah we will......
> 
> I plan to have a few shots of Patron with him in front of a mesquite fire.... Then I will teach him how to run a trumpet call...........(with an LF Cox Trumpet!!!)
> 
> It's gonna be another "Jakes" only season in Texas anyhow this year.......you didn't get that memo??





lol.........  have a feeling you guys will be able to put your "differences" aside and have an awesome hunt, look forward to seeing the pics, wish I was going too... 

Jakes ehh.... don't think it could get any worse than what I saw a couple years ago, should be all kinds of mature birds running around with the 100 jake per square mile hatch they had.


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## J.W. (Feb 5, 2010)

It's pretty simple........Everyone has an opinion and this forum is a place that you can freely express it. Unfortunately, some folks on here just don't know how to express their opinion without degrading or insulting someone else for theirs.

Jason


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## Jody Hawk (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> The one thing I truly despise is the prevailing lack of respect that some folks feel that they can get away with behind the safety of the computer screen.



That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.


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## Hobie (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> I just grin when I read some of the posts put up here about how to do this or that, knowing the author hasn't killed more than a handful of Gobblers....
> 
> And I shake my head at the same folks cracking on the comments or opinions of the man who has killed hundreds.... it's just disrespectful.
> 
> This will be my 32nd year chasing Gobblers. I learn something every season from the birds. Do I know it all?? Heck no. Some of yall need to think about who you are talking down to...



Shake my head to and laugh a lot about people who only killed a few gobblers and are internet turkey hunters.I have seen guys who killed one bird and is on a pro staff for a call maker and can not even play a call.Have heard him in person and just dont get it



This will be my 25th spring will never know everything about it and will never claim too like others have


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## Victor DeVine (Feb 5, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



Join the real name nation!


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## mauser64 (Feb 5, 2010)

Good grief! Is this thing still runnin on? Let's all get up and hit the woods in the morning and remember what we are all about! Get your gear out, practice on you calls, check your cameras, take a picture of big gobbler tracks in the mud, think about all the good hunts you have had in the past and plan the ones to come. Then come back here and tell everybody about it, brag, tease, share your experiences with somebody that might gain from it and don't let the ones that don't agree with you get you down or make you mad.


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## mauser64 (Feb 5, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



Good point! Soon as I figger it out I'm changin mine.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



You will simply not do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would hunt with you anytime!! Just punch me in the side of the head.. I'm ugly enough.


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## boparks (Feb 5, 2010)

Nitro said:


> Heck yeah we will......
> 
> I plan to have a few shots of Patron with him in front of a mesquite fire.... Then I will teach him how to run a trumpet call...........(with an LF Cox Trumpet!!!)
> 
> It's gonna be another "Jakes" only season in Texas anyhow this year.......you didn't get that memo??



Yea but am I safe with you walking with a gun behind me??....Please just save your shells for gobblers...and if you can teach me to use a trumpet call... I'll consider you one of the best teachers in the business


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## Dupree (Feb 5, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



my face is already jacked up enough. 

A lot of folks on here know my name and i have met many from time to time. if im not mistaken didnt my wife and i run into you and arrow3 at the convention a few years ago?


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## mjfortner (Feb 5, 2010)

dwills said:


> This was inevitable to say the least. This board doesn't need the arrogance expressed by TC in nearly all of his posts. I have no doubt that he was a very knowledgeable turkey hunter, but his degrading and negative comments in no way benefitted anyone but himself. It was getting to the point where people were scared to post in fear that TC would point out how inexperienced and bad of a turkey hunter they were. If the banning of people like this enables fellow turkey hunters to ask questions and get answers to benefit their turkey hunting experience, then it is well worth it. This forum will be a better place without him.[/QU
> 
> X2


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## Double Gun (Feb 5, 2010)

I have know Frank 6 years now and hunted with him a few times. I know him well enough to say he does not care how many turkeys he has killed, he does care how good a hunter/caller he is and how effective his custom calls are. 

I heard the things that most of you have said in your posts about him before I even contacted him the first time. But have since learned that 90% of them folks never met him in person or even talked with him on the phone. 

Frank to me cares about one thing and that he will help anyone that would like to know about turkey hunting, guns, ammo, calls to become better no matter what their level or how many years they have hunted and yes even listen to other folks opinions. 

He may come across rough with trying to make a point but I have yet see where he personnaly has attacked anyone as some have here  towards him since he was banned. Talk about kick someone when they are down and out. I have been on here only a very short while and see there is a double standard here in so far as watch what you say or how you say it to about 3 or 4 guys.

If any one could get a chance to met and talk with the man in person, I am sure you would see his perspective on things a little differently. 

This board will miss a lot of great information from him and have to settle for some of the misinformation that will be out here and no one will speak up for fear of being banned. 

There is no dought a lot of you guys are great guys and good hunters. It just seems there were a few here that does not like to be be challenged or their egos hurt and unfortionately those are the ones with the power to ban.


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## HarmonDen (Feb 5, 2010)

the Bobby Knight of turkey hunting..............i had a blow out with him.....a bad one.........but i can say this............the man knows what he's talk'in about............my opinion is he talks from experience...............not suspicion.....................


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## DukeBoy30 (Feb 5, 2010)

I would just like to say I've been on this forum for about a week now and I have learned alot from it.


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## rex upshaw (Feb 5, 2010)

HarmonDen said:


> the Bobby Knight of turkey hunting..............i had a blow out with him.....a bad one.........but i can say this............the man knows what he's talk'in about............my opinion is he talks from experience...............not suspicion.....................



his experience has never been in doubt.  if anyone is looking to seek tc out, i'm sure double gun would be willing to provide the link.


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## TK1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Double Gun said:


> I have know Frank 6 years now and hunted with him a few times. I know him well enough to say he does not care how many turkeys he has killed, or how good a hunter/caller he is and or how effective his custom calls are.
> 
> I heard the things that most of you have said in your posts about him before I even contacted him the first time. But have since learned that 90% of them folks never met him in person or even talked with him on the phone.
> 
> ...



No doubt...The very thing people are whining about...they are doing themselves since Cox isnt here..


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## Booner Killa (Feb 5, 2010)

The thing I love about this forum is the amount of turkey junkies that are around here. There are some dudes on this forum that have forgotten more about killin turkey's than I'll ever know and I learn a lot here every year from different folks. The thing that keeps me coming back here is the amount of folks that I can tell live to hear him gobble on the limb and blow your ears out just over the knoll out of sight. You just know how bad they really got it by what they type in their posts and the pics they show year in and year out. These days, it's a really rare thing. There really aren't that many people like us that share in the madness. Most folks just don't get why we hoot out loud 12 months outta the year......but I know where there's a bunch of brotha's that grin from ear to ear when they hear somebody in Walmart, BPS or anywhere else in public Hoot out loud and do the only reasonable thing to do.....GGGGOOOOOOBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE right back at that honory ole owl and get that embarassing look from your wife!!!! Yea, the punks ain't bothering me none these days on this forum!!!!


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## trkyburns (Feb 5, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



Jody, I like your thinking.  Seems I remember another very wise man (PJ) only a few months ago giving the same advice about punching in the face!


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## J.W. (Feb 5, 2010)

I think this one ran it's course. I say close her down and lets get back to the real reason we're on here.


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## TenPtr (Feb 6, 2010)

Thats too bad that a member full of turkey wisdom was recently banned.  However, until now I had no clue who he was or what kind of hunter he was.  Im an active member here on the forum and typically dont miss too much.  I keep up.   There are a bunch of names that come to mind when I think of the turkey forum.  They are members that have in some way,shape, or for had a positive impact on my turkey hunting career.  There are newbies, avg joes, and veterans that I credit these positive impacts to.  Had I not read this thread, I would not know TC existed.  That tells me that A) He never bothered me and B) He never shared anything useful or worth noting.
I have great respect for a man that has been after turkeys longer than I have been on this earth.  Turkey hunting runs through his veins from what I have recently gathered.
It would have been great for him to share his ways with us but obviously that was not why he joined the forum.  He is probably a straight shooter that types what first comes to mind. That being said, when words are typed out they are no different than a thought.  They can be deleted, rephrased, or altered in any way without anyone knowing but the person behind that computer.  When the "send" button is clicked there is no taking back what has been said.  The text is pre meditated.  This means people that constantly talk down to others on internet forums have no business being there.  This is the way some people choose to be...Why?  Who knows.  In the end, who really cares?  

We are all here because we like to turkey hunt.  Most of us are here because we LOVE to turkey hunt.  We feel that we HAVE to turkey hunt....because we do

If there is nothing interesting or positive to share with everyone then dont type up nonsense and hit the send button.  That does nothing but make a fool out of ones self.


Experienced turkey hunters are typically "set" in their own ways to a certain degree.  Thats just part of evolving based on means which success has been accomplished.  I have only been at it for 11 years and I am guilty of having some "set" ways....everyone with a mess of birds under their belt will be somewhat set in a way.   "Set" basically translates to "consistent" in the turkey hunting dictionary.  Consistency is developed over years of fine tuning and making adjustments based on experience.  A "set" hunter is nothing more than that. 

Lets keep this turkey forum the way we all know it to be....A place where great information is shared by beginner and veteran alike.  There are more than a handful of hunters on this forum that could or should be considered icons in the turkey world.  This forum is the only "fix" us addicts can find until March 1st when Florida season opens the floodgates with GA season right around the corner.


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## Cane_Cutter (Feb 6, 2010)

this should be a sticky thread


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## Nastytater (Feb 6, 2010)

boparks said:


> I've  been here almost a year and realize I'm coming up on my 1000th post.
> 
> Out of those 1000 this will likely be my first negative one and one that is sure to draw fire.
> 
> ...




   Well said...I agree 100%...This thread should be a TEA PARTY to all the MODERATORS.....and to the ones that make this site miserable....


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## Wacenturion (Feb 6, 2010)

TK1 said:


> No doubt...The very thing people are whining about...they are doing themselves since Cox isnt here..




Yeah....kind of like buzzards landing on a dead horse.

I too, like Double Gun, personally know Frank.  I had the pleasure of meeting Frank and his lovely wife years ago in either 93' or 94' in Indianapollis at the NWTF National Convention.  I had talked with him before that on the phone as I had purchased a few of his friction calls.  Since that convention, I have talked with Frank several times over the years buying additional calls for myself, son and one special one for a close friend's retirement.

Never ever was Frank not the gentleman.  Helpful and friendly, with phone calls to inquire about a call usually turning into turkey talk and experiences.  You know if he seemed somewhat blunt or rough to some, that indeed is too bad, because there is more to Frank than what you may or may not read into his comments.  There is always something to learn from people with the craftmanship skills and turkey experiences the likes of Frank.  

He might have been critical at times about things turkey and turkey hunting, but I don't recall personal attacks or remarks like those that have been thrown at him, before on threads and later today after being banned.  Just my opinion.


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## TK1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Wacenturion said:


> Yeah....kind of like buzzards landing on a dead horse.
> 
> I too, like Double Gun, personally know Frank.  I had the pleasure of meeting Frank and his lovely wife years ago in either 93' or 94' in Indianapollis at the NWTF National Convention.  I had talked with him before that on the phone as I had purchased a few of his friction calls.  Since that convention, I have talked with Frank several times over the years buying additional calls for myself, son and one special one for a close friend's retirement.
> 
> ...



I talk to Cox on a daily basis...sometimes 4 or 5 times a day and have so for about 4 years..Have recieved several gifts for no reason...cigars...his personal hunting equipment...etc etc..Long talks about turkeys...books...methods....etc etc...His posts may be "rough" at times but you can be assured that they all hold a key to successful turkey hunting...


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## silvestris (Feb 6, 2010)

boparks said:


> People can say what they want but theres just been no need for some of whats gone on. There'll always be riffs but folks shouldn't either be afraid to post or interact here.



I would think that after today, those who want to stay should be very afraid to post here.  I know that I am going to become much less of a poster and probably much less of a watcher as well.


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## Wacenturion (Feb 6, 2010)

I just spent the last hour or so going back and reading the majority of Franks posts to thread starting with the first ones he was involved in during October 2009.  I came forward in time to a couple of weeks ago, where I am already familiar with his comments.

Man......you folks need to refresh your memories.  Nowhere did I find any personal attacks, or downright nasty comments.  About the only thing that could be taken in a negative way was some pointed questions he asked in reference to something said about his comment, or in some cases some humor that had a wrinkle or two.

What I did see however was an obvious, at least to me anyway, rush to refute or made some negative comment about what Frank had to say.  Yeah, yeah.....I hear ya, I got it all backward.  Well I would highly recommend anyone without a dog in this fight to do what I did and draw your own conclusions.

Whether it was a newbie asking about what inexpensive call to purchase or help patterning a gun, whatever the subject, Frank's responses were generally honest and helpful.  It seems most of his remarks that were taken to be negative, were actually come backs by him asking for clarification on what someone said about his comment.  Don't agree................again I suggest you spend an hour and read the threads.

One thread in particular that Frank participated in had to do with the subject of muzzle loading being legal in Georgia for turkeys.  All he did was ask a simple question and he drew an instant smart rump (is rump ok?) response and he was literally quartered after that.  Man talk about being condesending to someone....and Frank remained civil.

For what it's worth, I think the forum....i.e us, owe Frank a reinstatement.  Seriously.  Again do what I did, and read the threads...the actual words and inferences, which are the facts, and use that rather than someone's off the cuff negative comment about Frank to draw your own conclusions.  I don't see how anyone here could  reasonably think Frank was somehow even closely related to the person some would have you believe he is on this forum after you do so.

 After writing this, I almost feel like I just hurt my chances for a "Golden Gobbler" cap.....sorry inside joke....getting late.


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## trkyhntr70 (Feb 6, 2010)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's why internet posters should only use real names. That way, if someone is offended they know who to look for to punch in the face.



 hilarious but true, could be a few black eyes poppin up..


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## trkyhntr70 (Feb 6, 2010)

Victor DeVine said:


> Join the real name nation!



 Wheres that key at???


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## Brad C. (Feb 6, 2010)

BrowningTech said:


> Done!
> 
> 
> sent complaint to all the admins and will be sending one to Brad at GON as well.
> ...



Now what did I do?

You must be sticking up for your buddy when I called him on his bogus lead numbers.  If lead shot as good as TC said and another guy on here has said, there would be no need for shooting Hevi-Shot.  

TC was a legend in his own mind.  He never contributed to a friendly  conversation.  He was just here to cut folks down, and now he finally got what he needed a long time coming.


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## Double Gun (Feb 6, 2010)

Brad C. said:


> Now what did I do?
> 
> You must be sticking up for your buddy when I called him on his bogus lead numbers.  If lead shot as good as TC said and another guy on here has said, there would be no need for shooting Hevi-Shot.
> 
> TC was a legend in his own mind.  He never contributed to a friendly  conversation.  He was just here to cut folks down, and now he finally got what he needed a long time coming.



Sir, either I or you look way to far into things. 

I have not seen a direct attack at anyone, I seen folks disagree with lead shot, heavy shot or TSS itself and its use. Not any one person but the use of the shot itself.

Except your statement: TC was a legend in his own mind.  He never contributed to a friendly  conversation.  He was just here to cut folks down, and now he finally got what he needed a long time coming.[/QUOTE]

No disrespect intended but do you not see the double standard in that.


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## Gadget (Feb 6, 2010)

Frank is a great callmaker and turkey hunter no doubt, you guys supporting him keep saying that, I agree, it's true, he's one of the very best!!......... but from what I saw he didn't share much of that knowledge here, most of his posts were his opinions on ethical hunting techniques which pretty much always included some degrading and condescending remark.


Frank has been banned on like 4 other forums, I guess you guys supporting him would like to tell us how in every case he was treated unfairly right...??  Maybe all the forum administrators from the different websites all banded together and formed a pact to ban Frank off the internet.... Maybe there's one big internet conspiracy against him.....yeah that's it.

Frank got Frank banned, the mods and admins were just doing there job, same as they did on the other forums too.



p


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## Brad C. (Feb 6, 2010)

No double standard here.  I didn't give TC the axe.  Admin did.  I'm sure this wasn't done prematurely on their part.  And I'm also sure this wasn't his first time being warned about his attitude and complaints by other members.  He dug his own grave.  Not me or anyone else.  

When you can't hold or type a conversation on here without negative after negative comments, it gets old.  It adds nothing to these forums and leads to threads like this one.  

Now that hit the firing pin on the primer.


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## J.W. (Feb 6, 2010)

silvestris said:


> I would think that after today, those who want to stay should be very afraid to post here.  I know that I am going to become much less of a poster and probably much less of a watcher as well.



I disagree Silvestris. I will continue to post here and will not be afraid to do so. All my posts are positive and respectful towards others, like most are. We are all adults and those of us who post in a responsible and civil manner have nothing to fear.

Jason


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## Double Gun (Feb 6, 2010)

I guess we could do this all day. I think we all know how each stands on this issue.


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## dawg2 (Feb 6, 2010)

I will say, that I think the thread needs to stay on topic and not bashing other members or previous members.


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## Brad C. (Feb 6, 2010)

Double Gun said:


> I guess we could do this all day. I think we all know how each stands on this issue.



Yep!

I'll delete the rest in respect.  

Bye-gones will be bye bye!


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## rex upshaw (Feb 6, 2010)

Wacenturion said:


> I just spent the last hour or so going back and reading the majority of Franks posts to thread starting with the first ones he was involved in during October 2009.
> 
> Man......you folks need to refresh your memories.  Nowhere did I find any personal attacks, or downright nasty comments.



and i'm assuming you couldn't see the one's of his that were deleted.  frank had been warned, i can assure you.


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