# The Human Faces of God



## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

http://undeception.com/the-human-faces-of-god-complete-index/

Started reading this book this week. Been pretty interesting so far. I skipped to chapters 4 and 5 which interested me most and still reading the rest. Shows how the Jewish god Yahweh originated as just one god in the pantheon of Canaanite gods and how scriptures were later changed as they evolved to monotheism. Also covers human sacrifice practiced by early Israelites and their neighbors.


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## j_seph (Nov 16, 2017)

Why would one read and fill his mind and time about religion and God(s) when they do not believe in such?


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## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Why would one read and fill his mind and time about religion and God(s) when they do not believe in such?



Because it's interesting and because this religion in particular and those that evolved from it have had a huge impact on world history and continue to affect our culture and lives to this day.


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## bullethead (Nov 16, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Why would one read and fill his mind and time about religion and God(s) when they do not believe in such?


Knowledge is not a bad thing.
It is very helpful to be knowledgeable about the subjects you discuss.
In order to truly know Pro, you must also be schooled about Con.


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Because it's interesting and because this religion in particular and those that evolved from it have had a huge impact on world history and continue to affect our culture and lives to this day.



Just an interesting observation/question; being that this religion has had so much impact and continues to affect our culture, how did it or how was it allowed to be that affective? For that to happen, would it be reasonable to assume that people found some type of "truth" in it?


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## WaltL1 (Nov 16, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Why would one read and fill his mind and time about religion and God(s) when they do not believe in such?


So we can be educated about what we don't believe in.


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## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

Spotlite said:


> Just an interesting observation/question; being that this religion has had so much impact and continues to affect our culture, how did it or how was it allowed to be that affective? For that to happen, would it be reasonable to assume that people found some type of "truth" in it?



What truths exactly would you assume based on the success of Islam?


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## WaltL1 (Nov 16, 2017)

Spotlite said:


> Just an interesting observation/question; being that this religion has had so much impact and continues to affect our culture, how did it or how was it allowed to be that affective? For that to happen, would it be reasonable to assume that people found some type of "truth" in it?


I think it would be reasonable to assume that.

And?


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> What truths exactly would you assume based on the success of Islam?



For Islam, I would assume some truth would be the belief of a higher power (God, Allah, gods)

Regardless, if they or I got it right or wrong, the belief in a higher power (God/gods), would it be safe to assume there's some truth in a higher power?


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## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think it would be reasonable to assume that.
> 
> And?



I don't. If it was truth at work I wouldn't expect the wide divergence in beliefs. Truth tends to unify. The laws of thermodynamics are the same across cultures. There isn't an arab thermodynamics, chinese thermodynamics, jewish thermodynamics. There is just thermodynamics. That is truth. Hypotheses are tested against the evidence and winnowed down to keep the good ones and discard the bad ones. Jewish monotheism on the other hand has splintered and diverged over time. That's not truth at work that is evolution at work. This book shows how it evolved early on and the process continues to this day.


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## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

Spotlite said:


> For Islam, I would assume some truth would be the belief of a higher power (God, Allah, gods)
> 
> Regardless, if they or I got it right or wrong, the belief in a higher power (God/gods), would it be safe to assume there's some truth in a higher power?



Well in that regard we must include all theistic belief and not just monotheism. Does that demonstrate the truth of the belief? The great diversity in beliefs about this higher power or powers suggests to me that maybe something else is at work. Perhaps there is something in the human psyche that finds comfort in the idea of a higher power? Perhaps that reveals a truth not about the workings of the external world but the internal workings of the human mind. Perhaps the promise of a blissful afterlife as reward for belief and the threat of eternal torment has played a role? Perhaps the State has also played a role? Every ancient near east nation had their own patron deities which they rallied around. The successful spread of belief in those deities depended largely on the success of the States which sponsored them. We see the same dynamic with the Roman Empire, with the Arab Conquests, and with the spread of Christianity to the New World. In light of those factors how much of a factor is truth?


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> I think it would be reasonable to assume that.
> 
> And?


Good question, I don't really have an answer to that. 

It's just interesting that if it's reasonable to assume some truths are there, how far off of the beaten have we gone with what those truths are, or might be.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I don't. If it was truth at work I wouldn't expect the wide divergence in beliefs. Truth tends to unify. The laws of thermodynamics are the same across cultures. There isn't an arab thermodynamics, chinese thermodynamics, jewish thermodynamics. There is just thermodynamics. That is truth. Hypotheses are tested against the evidence and winnowed down to keep the good ones and discard the bad ones. Jewish monotheism on the other hand has splintered and diverged over time. That's not truth at work that is evolution at work. This book shows how it evolved early on and the process continues to this day.


You are going way deeper than I was.


> that people found some type of "truth" in it?


That covers a whole lot of ground because it includes whatever people view to be the truth and whatever reasons they think makes it true. 
Not whether it is actually true as in its a "universal" fact.


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## atlashunter (Nov 16, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> You are going way deeper than I was.
> 
> That covers a whole lot of ground because it includes whatever people view to be the truth and whatever reasons they think makes it true.
> Not whether it is actually true as in its a "universal" fact.



I see what you're saying. No doubt muslims think they have the truth. But to suggest the successful spread of their religion which came by way of conquest makes it safe to assume there is some truth to their religion is flawed logic. Not saying you suggested that but I think that was the logic spotlite was using.


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Well in that regard we must include all theistic belief and not just monotheism. Does that demonstrate the truth of the belief? The great diversity in beliefs about this higher power or powers suggests to me that maybe something else is at work. Perhaps there is something in the human psyche that finds comfort in the idea of a higher power? Perhaps that reveals a truth not about the workings of the external world but the internal workings of the human mind. Perhaps the promise of a blissful afterlife as reward for belief and the threat of eternal torment has played a role? Perhaps the State has also played a role? Every ancient near east nation had their own patron deities which they rallied around. The successful spread of belief in those deities depended largely on the success of the States which sponsored them. We see the same dynamic with the Roman Empire, with the Arab Conquests, and with the spread of Christianity to the New World. In light of those factors how much of a factor is truth?



Interesting points to consider.


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I see what you're saying. No doubt muslims think they have the truth. But to suggest the successful spread of their religion which came by way of conquest makes it safe to assume there is some truth to their religion is flawed logic. Not saying you suggested that but I think that was the logic spotlite was using.



Yes, I just wasn't very clear with my question.


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## ambush80 (Nov 16, 2017)

j_seph said:


> Why would one read and fill his mind and time about religion and God(s) when they do not believe in such?



I think it was John S. Mill who said "If you don't completely understand your opponent's argument, then you understand very little of your own".  And as Atlas said, Christianity has shaped Western culture.  It's good to know about.  I want my daughter to know about it for that reason.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 16, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I see what you're saying. No doubt muslims think they have the truth. But to suggest the successful spread of their religion which came by way of conquest makes it safe to assume there is some truth to their religion is flawed logic. Not saying you suggested that but I think that was the logic spotlite was using.


Its possible the religion who had it right was stamped out long before Christianity and its god came along and we have never even heard of it


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## ambush80 (Nov 16, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Its possible the religion who had it right was stamped out long before Christianity and its god came along and we have never even heard of it



All different dogs, same fleas.


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## WaltL1 (Nov 16, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> All different dogs, same fleas.


Well that's kinda harsh 
Factual but harsh.


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## ambush80 (Nov 16, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Well that's kinda harsh
> Factual but harsh.


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> All different dogs, same fleas.



We were not talking about non believers


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## ambush80 (Nov 16, 2017)

Spotlite said:


> We were not talking about non believers



Non-believers can still believe in all other kinds of foolishness, just not that _one_ foolish thing.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 16, 2017)

The civilization of Ancient Rome was greatly influence by Roman mythology. In areas of government, daily life, and the arts, the gods of Rome can be clearly seen. Their ancient deities were viewed as a foundational part of what made the Romans so Roman.
So I would agree that just a belief in a god or gods, shares some aspects with those of us that believe in the God.


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## Spotlite (Nov 16, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Non-believers can still believe in all other kinds of foolishness, just not that _one_ foolish thing.



Fleas jump - type of dog they land on doesn't matter, even on dogs that don't believe that fleas exist


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## ambush80 (Nov 16, 2017)

Spotlite said:


> Fleas jump - type of dog they land on doesn't matter, even on dogs that don't believe that fleas exist



That's the whole problem.  The "fleas" (the problems inherent with faith based belief) are real and they do affect all the dogs, sadly.


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