# DONE with Rage - Need suggestions.



## chefrific (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm DONE DONE DONE with Rage broadheads!
Was using 125 grain Rage Crossbow head on my Excalibur and had blades deploy  before impact, causing me to miss my second and a VERY nice Gobbler.  Got home and sacrificed my only remaining head by testing it out on my broadhead target. Double checked that blades were secure and guess what... they deployed when I pulled the trigger, the head planed and darn near missed the target completely.
I emailed Rage twice, no reply.
Called and was told, "never heard of that issue" (WHAT!!!) and someone would get back with me. 
Nearly a week later, no call back.
Sent messages via their facebook page.  No response.
I'm DONE with these guys.

Would love some suggestions on a good alternative mechanical for a crossbow for turkey/deer.


----------



## GT Whitetail (Apr 9, 2013)

I've been using Gator broadheads for over a decade.. Use to be made by rocky mtn, but now made by redhead (avail at BP). Cut on contact 2 blade mechanical with no O-rings. Great design and I've nvr had any performance issues with them. Used them in both a compound and x-bow for deer.. Nvr tried a trky with a bow.. can hardly get em with a shotgun..ha


----------



## Jim Thompson (Apr 9, 2013)

although I always have trouble understanding how someone knows a head deployed before impact without slo mo camera work, I used NAP Killzone heads exclusively last season and they performed flawlessly on several huge does and a buck

they shot very well, altho they did impact different than my field tips.

course my rages performed flawlessly for a bunch of dead animals too


----------



## BUCK 87JT (Apr 9, 2013)

That's odd, do you think maybe your crossbow is to fast for rage?


----------



## robert carter (Apr 9, 2013)

Simmons are always open...Sorry it cost you a Bird. Its tough to get one close then have an equipment malfunction would make me mad as a hornet. Usually with me though I just sometimes...plain miss.RC


----------



## Cavalry Scout (Apr 9, 2013)

THUNDERHEAD. Never had one fail yet.


----------



## stringmusic (Apr 9, 2013)

Are you using the ones specifically designed for crossbows?

I would suggest NAP killzones as well, I've only killed on deer with them, but it did it's job perfectly.


----------



## HAPPY DAD (Apr 9, 2013)

I have used grim reapers without an issue.

I have tried, really really tried to find someone thats had an issue with them on archerytalk (which its not hard to find someone bashing on AT) 

But I can not find anyone who has had issues with the reapers.

They are considered "old" technology bu they work


----------



## pasinthrough (Apr 9, 2013)

Check this thread out:  http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=696733

Post 41, 44, 45 and 51.

I've never shot them out of a crossbow, but they shoot ok out of my compound with one, two or three blades deployed.

The video in post 41 was for a friend that said they always came open on him with the slightest bump.  

I don't know why some people have different results, but they've always worked for me and I'll keep using them until I find something better.

You might want to try Ramcat or the QAD Exodus.


----------



## joey1919 (Apr 9, 2013)

i'm done with rage too but for the opposite reason


----------



## chefrific (Apr 9, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> although I always have trouble understanding how someone knows a head deployed before impact without slo mo camera work, I used NAP Killzone heads exclusively last season and they performed flawlessly on several huge does and a buck
> 
> they shot very well, altho they did impact different than my field tips.
> 
> course my rages performed flawlessly for a bunch of dead animals too



Yep, it could be that the "true" point doesn't fly like the practice head that came with the pack.  
Practice head flew exactly like my field points.  
Killed my first turkey this year with the same head. Perfect shot.  Was confident in my shots and the head.
Second bird that I missed was only 10-15 yards from my blind window at the most.  I practiced at that range and again was confident of my shot.  cross hairs were exactly where they should have been and it never hit the bird.  No feathers, bird ran then flew off.  Watched him land in the top of a tree across the field for a few minutes then he flew down and went off in another direction.  
I guessed/assumed that it had to have opened up at time of shot, planed out and skewed my shot.  
When I got home I set up my target at same range.  Shot the rage practice head.  Dead on.  Shot the actual head and it almost did not hit the target.  I'm guessing they have to be opening up.
But you are correct, without slo mo, no way to really know.
Just disgusted that I missed that bird, he was a monster.


----------



## Jim Thompson (Apr 9, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Just disgusted that I missed that bird, he was a monster.



that we can all relate too!!!!  

either way, try the NAP killzone.  like I said I shot several with them last year and they are well put together and have a lil different deployment style than the rage.  do a youtube search to show how


----------



## captainhook (Apr 9, 2013)

You may laugh cause Hank Parker uses them but Shwackers have gotten it done for me the last two years for turkeys. The great thing is you just wrap electrical tape around the ferrule to practice with and you can shoot the same head in a turkey with the little band on. They are super accurate and completely lethal. I'm not using a crossbow but they should be fine. I'm shooting the two inch cut 100 gr out of my Carbon Element RKT. I use Ramcats for deer and hogs.


----------



## RangerJ (Apr 9, 2013)

Grim Reapers 3 years running now without the first problem, using crossbow and Compound.


----------



## Potlicker60 (Apr 10, 2013)

I have not had a prob with the rages on my bow madness, but know someone who has a prob with them opening on his omen. Switch to Gators.


----------



## satchmo (Apr 10, 2013)

Try Ramcats. Best flying fixed head on the market and almost indestructable.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 10, 2013)

Just to throw another one in the mix....

Slick Tricks have worked for me.


----------



## stringmusic (Apr 10, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> Are you using the ones specifically designed for crossbows?


----------



## cuda67bnl (Apr 10, 2013)

chefrific said:


> When I got home I set up my target at same range.  Shot the rage practice head.  Dead on.  Shot the actual head and it almost did not hit the target.



Did you use the same bolt? Or different bolts with each head? I've had to tune each of my bolts to the practice head, but the true heads fly the same once I do that.


----------



## chefrific (Apr 10, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> Are you using the ones specifically designed for crossbows?



Yep, Rage 125 grain Crossbow

"Was using 125 grain Rage Crossbow head on my Excalibur .."


----------



## chefrific (Apr 10, 2013)

cuda67bnl said:


> Did you use the same bolt? Or different bolts with each head? I've had to tune each of my bolts to the practice head, but the true heads fly the same once I do that.



Not the same bolt.  I'll try that.


----------



## chefrific (Apr 10, 2013)

Going to BPS tonight and plan on picking up some NAP Spitfires and  killzone heads, compare the two and see how I like them.


----------



## stringmusic (Apr 10, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Yep, Rage 125 grain Crossbow
> 
> "Was using 125 grain Rage Crossbow head on my Excalibur .."



Sorry bout that, brain "poot" I guess. 


I think you'll like the killzones, no o-rings to worry about.


----------



## bull0ne (Apr 10, 2013)

Why does anyone run the significantly higher risk of head failure by using mechanicals? 

Tried and true muzzys are my choice. Practice blades eliminate the potential practice vs hunting different point of aim issue. Being a muzzy, provided its assembled correctly by the user, virtually eliminates the possibility of point failure to begin with. 

I'd rather focus on the hunt, and not my equipment and its potential failure at the moment of truth.


----------



## HCdawg (Apr 10, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Just to throw another one in the mix....
> 
> Slick Tricks have worked for me.



Slick Tricks have worked good for me also.


----------



## chefrific (Apr 10, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> Why does anyone run the significantly higher risk of head failure by using mechanicals?
> 
> Tried and true muzzys are my choice. Practice blades eliminate the potential practice vs hunting different point of aim issue. Being a muzzy, provided its assembled correctly by the user, virtually eliminates the possibility of point failure to begin with.
> 
> I'd rather focus on the hunt, and not my equipment and its potential failure at the moment of truth.



I've never tried a fixed blade, so to be fair, I think I'll pick up a pack of muzzys as well.  At the very least, it will be an excuse to shoot some more.


----------



## boarman1 (Apr 10, 2013)

Ramcat is the way to go. Awesome head and fly true.


----------



## flgahunter114 (Apr 10, 2013)

Muzzys are cheap and you can find them just about anywhere. Also had luck with the slicktricks


----------



## bull0ne (Apr 10, 2013)

chefrific said:


> I've never tried a fixed blade, so to be fair, I think I'll pick up a pack of muzzys as well.  At the very least, it will be an excuse to shoot some more.




Shooting 125 muzzy crossbow heads out of an Excalibur. After the 2nd shot @ 40 yds, I'd have to aim off to the side or I would start destroying my bolts or fletchings. I think you'll be pleased with the mix of simplicity and durability muzzy offers.


----------



## HAPPY DAD (Apr 10, 2013)

I've always been baffled by the whole "why take a chance on something mechanical that could ruin your hunt" statements.

Don't you drive a vehicle to your hunting spot? Use a release? Drop away rest? Compound bow? Moveable sight?

ANY of these Mechanical items could fail and ruin your hunt but nobody looks at it this way.

I use them both and have only had a problem with one broadhead. It was not the mechanical part that messed up it was the material that it was made of


----------



## Bow Only (Apr 11, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> Why does anyone run the significantly higher risk of head failure by using mechanicals?
> 
> Tried and true muzzys are my choice. Practice blades eliminate the potential practice vs hunting different point of aim issue. Being a muzzy, provided its assembled correctly by the user, virtually eliminates the possibility of point failure to begin with.
> 
> I'd rather focus on the hunt, and not my equipment and its potential failure at the moment of truth.



Just remember that Muzzy's or Slick Tricks can fail too.


----------



## The Arrow Guru (Apr 11, 2013)

I guess if you are done with Rage, you can use any of the countless heads that are all trying to copy them as close as possible. I shot two deer with a cross bow this year using the Rage Xtremes and they worked flawlessly as always. 
As far as fixed I like the G5 Montec, Slick Trick, Ramcat, and the Exedus broadheads.
Mechs I like Grim Reapers, Kill Zone, Ulmer Edge and the grandaddy of the all Rage


----------



## guesswho (Apr 11, 2013)

Never used Rage, but I love my NAP Spitfire Maxx for my Bow.


----------



## bronco611 (Apr 11, 2013)

all of you that are fed up with the trashy rage tips can send them to me and I will help you out, hate to see a brother in pain.


----------



## chefrific (Apr 11, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> Shooting 125 muzzy crossbow heads out of an Excalibur. After the 2nd shot @ 40 yds, I'd have to aim off to the side or I would start destroying my bolts or fletchings. I think you'll be pleased with the mix of simplicity and durability muzzy offers.



Which Excalibur are you shooting?


----------



## bull0ne (Apr 11, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Which Excalibur are you shooting?



It's the Phoenix, with the variable range vs speed  compensating scope.  Nothing to it once I tweaked the dial in to what I was shooting.


----------



## bull0ne (Apr 11, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> Just remember that Muzzy's or Slick Tricks can fail too.



With proper assembly, and making sure the blade end caps are not loose due to the vibration of shooting or transport, how could a muzzy fail?


----------



## Jake Allen (Apr 11, 2013)

HAPPY DAD said:


> I've always been baffled by the whole "why take a chance on something mechanical that could ruin your hunt" statements.
> 
> Don't you drive a vehicle to your hunting spot? Use a release? Drop away rest? Compound bow? Moveable sight?
> 
> ANY of these Mechanical items could fail and ruin your hunt but nobody looks at it this way.



I do drive a vehicle, but other than that, I don't use any of those add on's, or a wheeled bow. I choose a fixed, cut on contact broadhead that I can set up, and sharpen myself.

Even with a head with moving parts, such as a Rage, with a 100 percent non failure rate, I can't understand the $15.00 per pop, one shot and done mentality. 

Many times at the end of a morning hunt, I will take a couple of practice shots at pine cones from the stand.
I pull the arrows out of the ground, hit the heads with a file, black the razor sharp edges with a marker, and put the ready to kill arrows back in my quiver.


----------



## T.P. (Apr 11, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> With proper assembly, and making sure the blade end caps are not loose due to the vibration of shooting or transport, how could a muzzy fail?



I have missed several deer with a Muzzy. Had to be the broadheads fault.


----------



## HAPPY DAD (Apr 11, 2013)

Jake Allen said:


> I do drive a vehicle, but other than that, I don't use any of those add on's, or a wheeled bow. I choose a fixed, cut on contact broadhead that I can set up, and sharpen myself.
> 
> Even with a head with moving parts, such as a Rage, with a 100 percent non failure rate, I can't understand the $15.00 per pop, one shot and done mentality.
> 
> ...



You prove the point I was trying to make sir. If someone wants to blame the mechanical aspect as a possible point of failure, them they need to do exactly as you are doing and take all chances of mechanical failure away.

I have a higher percentage of missing or hitting a deer bad than a mech head failing


----------



## Bow Only (Apr 12, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> With proper assembly, and making sure the blade end caps are not loose due to the vibration of shooting or transport, how could a muzzy fail?



Any broadhead can bend or break ferrules or break blades.  I wasn't singling out Muzzy, but it can happen.


----------



## bull0ne (Apr 12, 2013)

Bow Only said:


> Any broadhead can bend or break ferrules or break blades.  I wasn't singling out Muzzy, but it can happen.



Gotcha.


----------



## spydermon (Apr 12, 2013)

Ned some polar heads


----------



## chefrific (Apr 15, 2013)

Update. 
 I tried the 125 grain NAP spitfire "gobbler getter".  Shoots dead on with my field points.  Tested accuracy at 20, 30 and 40 yards.
Perfect, every shot.
Now if I can only get another bird to walk to truly test it.
Thanks everyone for your input.


----------



## Bucky T (Apr 15, 2013)

NAP Spitfire


----------



## southernboy2147 (Apr 15, 2013)

carbon express, or allen expandables... cheap and always work fine for me and my brother with compounds and crossbows


----------



## The Fever (Apr 15, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Update.
> I tried the 125 grain NAP spitfire "gobbler getter".  Shoots dead on with my field points.  Tested accuracy at 20, 30 and 40 yards.
> Perfect, every shot.
> Now if I can only get another bird to walk to truly test it.
> Thanks everyone for your input.



My buddy had a cousin whos aunts mommas second cousins daddys grandmas great grandsons girlfriends stepsisters bestfriends boyfriend shot one at a gobbler that weighed 25 pounds and a 19 inch beard with 2 1/2 inch spurs and it opened up mid flight and he missed....


Things happen...


----------



## chefrific (Apr 16, 2013)

The Fever said:


> My buddy had a cousin whos aunts mommas second cousins daddys grandmas great grandsons girlfriends stepsisters bestfriends boyfriend shot one at a gobbler that weighed 25 pounds and a 19 inch beard with 2 1/2 inch spurs and it opened up mid flight and he missed....
> 
> 
> Things happen...



Oh yeah, that's a valid response. Thanks for your input.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 16, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Oh yeah, that's a valid response. Thanks for your input.



My point is they can all fail...I have had muzzy's fail....the example given was to poke fun at the kind of stories you hear. The more moving parts you have on anything the more likely it is to fail. I shoot rages, muzzys, thunderheads, spitfires. They all shoot out of my bow the same and I enjoy picking which one to take but they have failed from time to time. I still have enough success that I keep them all in the quiver.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 16, 2013)

How long have you shot rages before they started to fail? Did you buy a new pack to see if there was fault in ones you had prior? I test all of mine. I had two that wouldn't stay shut. Rage sent me three more at no cost.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 16, 2013)

Jim Thompson said:


> although I always have trouble understanding how someone knows a head deployed before impact without slo mo camera work, I used NAP Killzone heads exclusively last season and they performed flawlessly on several huge does and a buck
> 
> they shot very well, altho they did impact different than my field tips.
> 
> course my rages performed flawlessly for a bunch of dead animals too



This is the best comment yet....it seems you are basing your problem on an assumption.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 16, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Update.
> I tried the 125 grain NAP spitfire "gobbler getter".  Shoots dead on with my field points.  Tested accuracy at 20, 30 and 40 yards.
> Perfect, every shot.
> Now if I can only get another bird to walk to truly test it.
> Thanks everyone for your input.



Did you test all the rage expandables you had? Did they all fail? Also I don't see a response to the suggestion of trying them on alternate bolts? I am interested in seeing the results!


----------



## paulkeen (Apr 20, 2013)

G5t3 just saying


----------



## chefrific (Apr 22, 2013)

The Fever said:


> This is the best comment yet....it seems you are basing your problem on an assumption.



Read my post #11

That should answer your question.  Do you need a hug?


----------



## Thwack1or2 (Apr 22, 2013)

Slick Trick!


----------



## The Fever (Apr 22, 2013)

chefrific said:


> Read my post #11
> 
> That should answer your question.  Do you need a hug?



No hug needed. What about the other questions?


----------



## chefrific (Apr 23, 2013)

The Fever said:


> No hug needed. What about the other questions?



As I've ALREADY stated, I tried all the remaining rage heads, and if you read my previous posts, you will see the results.
Using 3 different bolts....
I tried both NAP spitfire (gobbler getter), and killzone.  Both shot exactly like my field points, and did not fail.
I also tried muzzy 3 blade fixed.  The muzzy shot "ok", but was not as consistent as the NAP mechs.  Grouping on the muzzy's at both 20 and 30 yards was about 2"-3", whereas grouping with the NAP's was almost on top of each other.


----------



## M80 (Apr 23, 2013)

Qad exodus heads. Sharp, accurate, very strong. Love them. Never a mechanical again


----------



## 270bowman (Apr 23, 2013)

paulkeen said:


> G5t3 just saying



I used them last season after using slick tricks. G5T3's haven't come out of my quiver since. They fly true, very sharp, and I used the same head without the need to resharpen and killed 3 with it.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 23, 2013)

chefrific said:


> As I've ALREADY stated, I tried all the remaining rage heads, and if you read my previous posts, you will see the results.
> Using 3 different bolts....
> I tried both NAP spitfire (gobbler getter), and killzone.  Both shot exactly like my field points, and did not fail.
> I also tried muzzy 3 blade fixed.  The muzzy shot "ok", but was not as consistent as the NAP mechs.  Grouping on the muzzy's at both 20 and 30 yards was about 2"-3", whereas grouping with the NAP's was almost on top of each other.



Clearly I missed that! My fault! Good stuff!


----------



## Wilcox (Apr 24, 2013)

Ramcat all the way - I can only practice up to 35 yards in my back yard and this guy came up at 32...fly the same as my field tips or he wouldn't be at the taxidermist right now.


----------



## bonecollector123 (Apr 24, 2013)

The Fever said:


> My buddy had a cousin whos aunts mommas second cousins daddys grandmas great grandsons girlfriends stepsisters bestfriends boyfriend shot one at a gobbler that weighed 25 pounds and a 19 inch beard with 2 1/2 inch spurs and it opened up mid flight and he missed....
> 
> 
> Things happen...



I think I know thier third cousins step dads brother in law


----------



## Flaustin1 (Apr 25, 2013)

The Fever said:


> This is the best comment yet....it seems you are basing your problem on an assumption.



Heres the deal.  Several years back when i shot modern equipment, i bought into the rage craze.  Let me go ahead and say that the performance of 2 of the 3 heads was awesome.  3 shots 3 kills with awesome blood trails and gaping holes.  No critter made it over 40yds.  The 3rd head however, came OPEN in FLIGHT.  Im certain of this.  I was shooting at a big ol nanny doe.  Perftect broadside shot at about 32 yds.  When i shot, i heard the head rattle really loud and then watched as it planed up and right, then severely dow and left.  The arrow was sticking in the ground at about a 50 degree angle, behind the where the deer was standing.  I thought dang, it must of come open in my quiver.  I was wrong.  I took the head home, replaced the o ring and cleaned it up good.  Went outside, backed off 32 yards, made sure the head was closed securely and let er fly.  Same results, head rattled loudly the planed up and right.  Its still buried up in that oak tree to this day.  It was a 2 blade version.  This is how I know it opened in flight.


----------



## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

bonecollector123 said:


> I think I know thier third cousins step dads brother in law


----------



## The Fever (Apr 25, 2013)

Flaustin1 said:


> Heres the deal.  Several years back when i shot modern equipment, i bought into the rage craze.  Let me go ahead and say that the performance of 2 of the 3 heads was awesome.  3 shots 3 kills with awesome blood trails and gaping holes.  No critter made it over 40yds.  The 3rd head however, came OPEN in FLIGHT.  Im certain of this.  I was shooting at a big ol nanny doe.  Perftect broadside shot at about 32 yds.  When i shot, i heard the head rattle really loud and then watched as it planed up and right, then severely dow and left.  The arrow was sticking in the ground at about a 50 degree angle, behind the where the deer was standing.  I thought dang, it must of come open in my quiver.  I was wrong.  I took the head home, replaced the o ring and cleaned it up good.  Went outside, backed off 32 yards, made sure the head was closed securely and let er fly.  Same results, head rattled loudly the planed up and right.  Its still buried up in that oak tree to this day.  It was a 2 blade version.  This is how I know it opened in flight.



Did you use the orange washers they send in the packages that add to the force needed to open them? Might have solved the issue. Good info though. I wonder what made that broadhead come apart. Seemingly there is only one way the o ring is released. It would be an interesting study. Its also funny because I have only ever heard of this issue as of late. Perhaps its a change in something they are doing.


----------



## Flaustin1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Nah this happened on their first year out.  I don't even think they had orange o rings at the time.  I liked the head, but im tellin ya, sometimes, something happens and they do open in flight.


----------



## GTBHUNTIN (May 4, 2013)

ramcats......all that needs to be said


----------



## Millcreekfarms (May 4, 2013)

Had the same thing happen with a compound im a grim reaper custumer from now on


----------



## DeerSlayer (May 5, 2013)

Grim Reaper Whitetail Special and NAP Blood Runner


----------



## The Fever (May 5, 2013)

Flaustin1 said:


> Nah this happened on their first year out.  I don't even think they had orange o rings at the time.  I liked the head, but im tellin ya, sometimes, something happens and they do open in flight.



I trust ya broski


----------



## Frank-n-Tines (May 5, 2013)

Somebody wrote a good song about this- "You do your thing, I'll shoot Rage!"


----------



## satchmo (May 6, 2013)

mwilliams80 said:


> Qad exodus heads. Sharp, accurate, very strong. Love them. Never a mechanical again



Those are a copy of Ramcat design, admitidly. Except you can't use them in many states because they stay barbed.
Ramcats are a no contest head in accuratcy and penitration.


----------



## GTBHUNTIN (May 8, 2013)

funny thing there satchmo, all points I was going to make!  LOL  RAMCATS are hands down imo the best head out there and are the only broadhead that I have absolute 100% confidence in when hunting.


----------



## alligood729 (May 11, 2013)

Ramcats....and the Bipolar head is about ready for production. Tim, together with a machinist friend, has a prototype 100 grain head, that he is testing this weekend. Saw a couple of videos, it's going to be a good head.


----------



## Randypoo6292 (May 29, 2013)

The Thunderhead is widely recognized as the finest fixed blade broadhead ever created. The sharpest blades. The best quality. More animals have been taken over the years with Thunderheads than any other broadhead.
- or at least that's what the advertisement says haha, either way thunderheads lead to the beginning of a blood trail  good luck


----------



## SWWTVjordanbarnes (Jun 28, 2013)

alligood729 said:


> Ramcats....and the Bipolar head is about ready for production. Tim, together with a machinist friend, has a prototype 100 grain head, that he is testing this weekend. Saw a couple of videos, it's going to be a good head.



the bipolar will hit the market around 8-1-2013, Indeed a great head, and the best of both worlds fixed and expandable blades deliver a 2 1/4'' cut with crazy penetration , no o-rings or rubber to fail you in premature deployment just shear pin and lock pin. This head is going to be a big hit.


----------

