# Letter to the Editor of GON



## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 8, 2006)

To the Editor:

After reading your editorial in the February issue of your publication I pondered the statement you made in the closing paragraph in your piece. In that paragraph you stated that WRD had scheduled a Adult/Child Turkey Quota Hunt on the same date as a Youth Birding Competition at the same facility. You should also remember that you went on to make a statement that "some children pay and some do not" and that WRD does not see that as problamatic.

I decided that after reading the past few months of your editorials which seemed to be biased against the men and women at WRD, that I would study your claims a bit further. In doing so, guess what I discovered? 

I found that NO children pay to participate in the hunt OR the"2006 Youth Birding Competition"! Imagine that! You, the publisher and owner of what many people consider to be the premier publication in the State of Georgia was not aware and did not have the capability to determine that children in our state do not pay for hunting licenses!

I also discovered,after a two minute internet search, that the actual "2006 Youth Birding Competition" is NOT held at Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center (CEWC), nor Clybel WMA which is the actual location of the quota hunt, but that the "Birders" may collect their sightings from any point in the state. The plans are that they will all meet up at CEWC for an awards banquet later that evening.

Imagine that!

As a reader I am faced with making one of two assumptions concerning your attempt to misinform your readers.

One would be that you did not know these facts and do not have the ability to search for this information and simply made a mistake.

The other would be that you knew full well that there was no conflict between the two great opportunties for our youth but would not miss the chance to spin your anti-WRD aggenda to your readers.

I'll not try to decipher which is correct but I do wish to express my regret and dissatisfaction with your actions.

For your information, I am copying a few paragraphs from WRD's Website concerning the 2006 Youth Birding Competition along with a link to the whole article concerning this event.

The event will be a very fine opportunity for the citizens of this state to take their boys and girls afield to spend a great day in Georgia's Outdoors viewing and learning about wildlife. While it may not be hunting or fishing it will be a great opportunity to get those children away from their video games and appreciating the Nature of our State. Who knows what may grow from there?

I think that considering the dis-service you have perpetrated with your editorial it would be very fitting if you provided an ad for the Birding Event in your magizine in the March issue.

Sincerely,

Jeff Young

2006 Youth Birding Competition!

Georgia's Youth Birding Competition

What is it? 

It is a one day birding event during the peak of spring migration.  Youth teams spend the day finding as many species as they can as they compete against teams their own age.  The competition is capped off with a Live Birds of Prey Show and Awards Banquet.

When is it?

The competition runs from midnight to 6:00 PM on Sunday, April 23, 2006.  Feel free to sleep in or start at midnight searching for owls, nightjars and other nocturnal birds.  As long as you cross the finish-line and turn in your list by 6:00 PM, you will be in the running for prizes.

Where is it?

Bird as much or as little of the state of Georgia as you want, as long as you make it to Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center by 6:00 PM to turn in your list. Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center is located in Mansfield, Georgia, about one hour east of Atlanta.  All events will be at the Conference Center Banquet Hall. 

Do you need to be an expert?

No!  We can pair your team with an experienced birder to help you learn about the birds before the competition.  During the competition only the youth participants can identify birds.


http://www.gohuntgeorgia.com/content/displaycontent.asp?txtDocument=458&txtPage=1


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## Slayer (Feb 8, 2006)

*all I can say is ......*

DAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!


         


Wonder if a response will be forth coming


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## tcoker (Feb 8, 2006)

Mr Young,

        Let me first say I am not defending GON or the editoral(s) contained within its pages.  That being said, if you can't see the where we as sportsman rank on DNR's then I think our research that you did for your response to Mr Burch should continue.  What do you think is gonna be the spin when a "team" of birders (which have every right to be there) come up on a adult/child hunting party field dressing a deer or dragging a deer out of the woods and they run to the manager or even better to their local news source. Who my friend will be "wrong"in the publics eye. Though Honorary license are free, most of the adults assisting those kids will have already bought a WMA stamp.  I agree with Mr Burch, why do they not have to pay for access?  Who produces more money for the state to use on all the state run WMA's?  Sportsman, more specifically hunters/fishermen or birders?  Realistically people may view birds all over the state then drive to CEWC, however more people will probably do their viewing on Clybell WMA. Who is gonna get the restrictions placed on them for access? This is the yet another subtle chop at the massive trunk of our hunting heritage tree.  

I respect you Mr Young for sharing your opposing opinion and this is just mine.  It worries me that if the current trend continues that the hunting oppurtunity we have now will not be around anymore. I bet the people in England didn't see it coming either.

Todd Coker


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## Branchminnow (Feb 8, 2006)

Ive been wondering why it is that anybody in the state or for that matter out of state can walk on our WMA's FOR FREE, while to use the WMA's for hunting IVE GOT TO PAY!
The logic seems simple the parents of the kids on the youth turkey hunt are paying, and the "birders are not"
I think that was the point of the editorial, also I think the remarks were made to those individuals that are "higher up" because I know alot of DNR personell, and they just do what they are told and do it well i might add.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 8, 2006)

Mr. Coker,

You speak of hunter's rank within DNR and Mr. Burch and myself have addressed WRD which is merely one division thereof. I have absolutely no doubt where hunters and fishermen rank with WRD and fully understand their dedication to the future of hunting and fishing in Georgia.

I can not and will not say the same for the DNR as a whole. It is a massive agency that covers a wide range of social obligations that have been placed upon it by the executive and legislative branch and is funded for the most part by all taxpayers.

As for the matter of you pays for Charlie Elliott WC, it is important to realize and understand that the center itself was constructed primarily through private donations. Only a small precentage of "Sportsman's dollars" went into that construction.

Also, if you've visited CEWC in the past you might have noticed that is a place where bikers, horseback riders, hunters, fishermen, kids on field trips, ladies garden clubs, campers, shooters etc. all co-exist without conflict.

Who produces more for the state on ALL those state run WMA's? Perhaps the hunter. Who produces the money on CEWC may require a different response.

Sportsman's fees cover only about 38% of WRD's total operating budget with the remainder coming from all taxpayers in this state. We can not afford to exclude the people that foot the bill for the other 62%.

If you can agree on that, it should be easy to agree that getting our youth involved in outdoor activities such as birding, camping and so on certainly beats excluding them all together.

If I were turkey hunting on a WMA and a fellow with his sons or daughters stumbled into me while they were out for a hike or studying birds, I would hope that I would greet them with a smile and offer them a cool drink of water and share the space and the nature with them. I would have nothing to loose and much to gain from the experience.

Believe me when I tell you I have been standing on the wall watching for the enemies of our outdoor traditions and have grown fairly adept at recognizing them as they approach! They do not look like children nor do they wear a WRD uniform.


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## Jkidd (Feb 8, 2006)

> Ive been wondering why it is that anybody in the state or for that matter out of state can walk on our WMA's FOR FREE, while to use the WMA's for hunting IVE GOT TO PAY!



Keep in mind.. If those folks have to start paying then they have more of a say in what happens on the property.

Jason


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 8, 2006)

Branchminnow said:
			
		

> Ive been wondering why it is that anybody in the state or for that matter out of state can walk on our WMA's FOR FREE, while to use the WMA's for hunting IVE GOT TO PAY!
> The logic seems simple the parents of the kids on the youth turkey hunt are paying, and the "birders are not"
> I think that was the point of the editorial, also I think the remarks were made to those individuals that are "higher up" because I know alot of DNR personell, and they just do what they are told and do it well i might add.



So Greg, you believe taht a person that wanted to walk through the woods in the Chattahoochee national Forest should have to pay to do so?

What Steve said was " some children pay and some do not". You can spin it for him any way you please but it was in fact a false statement designed to inflame unsuspecting folks that simply only know the one-sided slant he has presented them in the past.


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## General Lee (Feb 8, 2006)

My,what a tangled web we weave........


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## Branchminnow (Feb 8, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> So Greg, you believe taht a person that wanted to walk through the woods in the Chattahoochee national Forest should have to pay to do so?
> 
> What Steve said was " some children pay and some do not". You can spin it for him any way you please but it was in fact a false statement designed to inflame unsuspecting folks that simply only know the one-sided slant he has presented them in the past.


Look I dont spin, and I would not know how to spin if I treid its to much like lying, and would not feel right. I just saw a comment that looked to be the truth did not say that they should have to pay to walk through the woods but I think DNR ought to dance with the ones that brought them to the dance. (Notice I wrote DNR and NOT WRD)


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 8, 2006)

yall dont get heated on a new subject please


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## Jriley (Feb 8, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> So Greg, you believe taht a person that wanted to walk through the woods in the Chattahoochee national Forest should have to pay to do so?
> 
> They do have to pay. Everytime you park on National Forest land you have to pay those "user fees." I always put my money in those little envelopes, but I wonder if everyone else does?


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## gadeerwoman (Feb 8, 2006)

"Everytime you park on National Forest land you have to pay...". And therein lies one of my pet peeves. Folks can 'park' elsewhere and still use National Forest lands for free even for a WMA that lies on Natl forest. For example, riders who use the atv trails on Redlands simply park somewhere else than Roberts Bike Camp and ride the atv trails for free (parking at Shiloh Church is a prime example). If everybody is gonna play, everybody should pay. 
Sorry, that's off the original topic.


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## Randy (Feb 8, 2006)

Ilook forward to seeing  this in GON.  But some how I don't think it will be there.


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## Spotlite (Feb 8, 2006)

I have to pay for everything, if nothing else I have to pay a fine.


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## TallPines (Feb 8, 2006)

Does the editor of GON post on these boards? I would love to hear his side.


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## BOWHUNTER! (Feb 8, 2006)

Good night!!!!!!!!!!! What happened to just plain ole hunting? I quit.    I think i'll pick up basket weaving. Not a whole lot that can go wrong there. 

I'm just messin around.


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## General Lee (Feb 8, 2006)

I would like to remind folks that Mr Burch pays the bill to provide this forum for us.To openly question his integrity on his board is THE most shocking thing I have seen in all my time here.We would have never put up with this type of post directed at Woody, and we should not have it with Mr Burch.I humbly ask that the powers that be remove this thread and let all that have issues with Mr Burch,handle them in the same way we have been asked to handle differences..........


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## Before Dawn (Feb 8, 2006)

I think most of you have figured out by now that everybody pays. There are Federal taxes on all outdoor related equipment such as bino's, sleeping bags, tents etc. as well as simple income tax.

JKidd had a point we all had better take head of. As it is we have more input on how these WMA's are used than any other segment of the population even though we are the extreme minority. If we start asking the other 80-90% to pay the same as us, guess who is going to have absolute control?

Do we really have a problem with kids, and we're potentially talking about groups such as Boy Scouts, 4H Clubs etc., here spending a day in the woods bird watching and returning to CEWC to report their findings and enjoy a banquet together?

I certainly hope not. If we do we have bigger problems than I ever imagined.


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## Localyocal (Feb 8, 2006)

My math ain't good, but sportsmen license fees made $20 million and WRDs budget was $28 million, just wondering what kind of math Jeff Young is doing to come up with us only paying for 38% of WRD. Calculator says 71 percent. As for not wanting the other folks who use WMAS to pay, where has that gotten us? On Clybel WMA, yeah when sportsmen bought it, when we said yeah raise our license fees to buy land, it was a WMA. They now have a horse trail and bike trail. They don't pay. I guess everyone who hunted and fished there and paid their $19.50 got asked buy DNR and said yeah build a horse trail. One other point Jeff Young makes is that private money built the Education Center. Yeah, they forgot to ask me about that one too. Great idea pave and bulldoze the best hardwood hillside on the area and get private donors to pay for it, then get hunters to pay for cooks at the building.

Thanks Mr. Burch for looking out for hunters.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 8, 2006)

General Lee said:
			
		

> I would like to remind folks that Mr Burch pays the bill to provide this forum for us.To openly question his integrity on his board is THE most shocking thing I have seen in all my time here.We would have never put up with this type of post directed at Woody, and we should not have it with Mr Burch.I humbly ask that the powers that be remove this thread and let all that have issues with Mr Burch,handle them in the same way we have been asked to handle differences..........



When Steve first started paying the bills we were asked to allow the questioning of GON.  You are correct though that we do not allow questioning of an individual's integrity


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## tcoker (Feb 8, 2006)

I think Mr Burch is a staunch supporter of Sportsmen (and women) of Georgia, and wants to do everything possible to ensure that the future is a bright as it is today or once was. At one time I questioned where Mr. Burch stood as editor of GON. As an editor he has the right, even the obligation to express his opinion on any given subject. More time than not I fully believe his opinion takes the shape of whatever is best for sportsmen of Georgia. 

Make everyone pay, give everyone a voice, cuz right now we always pay and look at the polls in GON and some current legislation WRD and DNR ain't listenin'.  I'm a fairly young guy but i'm old school. Dance with the one that brung ya... cuz she'll be there for ya in the morning! 

Who's right? 71% or 38% that is a huge difference. DNR consists of 7 Departments (roughly). Can you tell me that at least a majority of money spent by sportsmen for license and tax on related items goes to WRD budget?  In all other walks of life (privatized)all you have to do is follow the money, but here it's backwards. We can't always just sit back and let someone else fight the battles. I thank Mr. Burch and others like him for doing so! So many agendas out there and most people just accept what they are told too. I love seeing this discussion, don't sell it short.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 8, 2006)

Localyocal said:
			
		

> My math ain't good, but sportsmen license fees made $20 million and WRDs budget was $28 million, just wondering what kind of math Jeff Young is doing to come up with us only paying for 38% of WRD. Calculator says 71 percent. As for not wanting the other folks who use WMAS to pay, where has that gotten us? On Clybel WMA, yeah when sportsmen bought it, when we said yeah raise our license fees to buy land, it was a WMA. They now have a horse trail and bike trail. They don't pay. I guess everyone who hunted and fished there and paid their $19.50 got asked buy DNR and said yeah build a horse trail. One other point Jeff Young makes is that private money built the Education Center. Yeah, they forgot to ask me about that one too. Great idea pave and bulldoze the best hardwood hillside on the area and get private donors to pay for it, then get hunters to pay for cooks at the building.
> 
> Thanks Mr. Burch for looking out for hunters.




Yocal,

What you did not gain when you read Mr. Burch's editorial a few months ago about WRD's budget is that out of the $19 million in license fees, about $8 million goes directly to pay off the bonds on land purchases as dictated by the legislature.

That leaves +/- $11 million to go to the budget or 38%. Nothing fuzzy about the math when you look at all the facts and not just the ones you've been fed.

You will also find that Mr. Burch through his editorials in past years clamoured for an education facility such as CEWC if you go dig through some past issues. 

You have also been misled if you believe you paid for cooks at the center. Gov. Perdue's budget for the upcoming period allocates sufficient funds to pay the staff. That aside, the Convention Center will pay for it's own operation and should in fact, return a healthy profit. Mr. Burch must not have been too awfully opposed to the Center. He took the Sportsman Senators from the Network there for a meeting just this past October and had a very nice Banquet for his fundraisers and their wives. It was very nice. I enjoyed it very much. Money well spent.

You keep going back to "others don't pay". That is simply not true. Every tax payer in this state helps to pay already and as others here have stated if you want them to start paying user fees that is fine. Just remember you asked for it. BTW, I have heard Mr. Burch warn against that very thing.

My problem is not neccessarily with the point and urging that Mr. Burch was trying to put accross, though I do disagree with him, my problem is simply that it appears that he has attempted to mislead his readers, of which I are one, as he would say. 

Mr. Coker,

I can tell you that 100% of your license fees other than the aforementioned $8 million goes to the WRD Budget for expenditure on hunting and fishing "things" as required by law. If it did not those that spent it in other ways could be charged and convicted and face penalty and imprisonment. I have not heard of any of that going on and if any media outlet knew that it was going on I'm certain they'd jump at the scoop!

One last urging from me and I let y'all have at it 'cause I have many letters to write tonight with the legislature in session, please go and dig for yourselves and find the whole truth about the issues that face us including the budget. Don't be a sheeple.


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## Handgunner (Feb 8, 2006)




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## Jeff Raines (Feb 8, 2006)

Oh so much to say,better just put the popcorn in


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## tcoker (Feb 8, 2006)

Don't call me a sheep... j/k.  I agree with you that it is imperative for each person do their homework and research an issue before jumping to conclusions.  It is important to have education centers for all people, especially ones funded in part by hunters. We need all the PR we can get.  Regardless of who pays for what, between license fees,boat registration, etc., why is it that WRD had the one of the smallest budget increases (percentage wise). The Strategic Planning Committee has 3 meetings scheduled 2 in south Georgia and 1 for all of Georgia north of Macon and it's for 2:00pm on a Thursday. Yet we accept that and accept whatever comes from those meetings.  Not to mention the Strategic Planning Committee point of contact is the Pollution Prevention Department...? Why?  Oh well I'm wayyyy off topic now so I digress.  I'm not a fan of the AJC or Cynthia Tucker but as an editor she is entitled to right her opinions in her editorials. I usually agree with about 1% of her content. That is fine by me, she can spin the content of her editorials any way she wishes. That is what an editorial is, an opinion/expression of the editor. I dislike the AJC because they spin their newsstories with bias to mislead. that is unacceptable.  Mr. Burch REPORTS what he believes to be facts and tells interesting stories. His summation in an editorial is merely and expression. I say ROCK ON' dawg! 

Mr Young, 
    I respect you and i don't even know you but your a man of integrity and that means something to me.


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## Lostoutlaw (Feb 8, 2006)

GON>>>>>


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## Swamprat (Feb 8, 2006)

Why is there such a big fuss of how something was worded or not worded.

I guess nobody can make a mistake without somebody going into massive convulsions. It has been like a "Spaz" convention here lately.

Look at what more positive things GON is trying to do for the state of Georgia vs the bad. At least they are trying to organize a voice to some degree and educate the voting public. Mistakes happen.Sorry you don't agree with it but unwad the panties and move on.


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## Dawg In the Swamp (Feb 8, 2006)

Keep up the good fight!!!


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## General Lee (Feb 8, 2006)

Well if this thread did nothing else,it ended any worries some of us had about Jeff becoming an Admin again..........


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## Timbo (Feb 9, 2006)

Man,I was going to thread steal,but this one Ill leave to toliver.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 9, 2006)

General Lee said:
			
		

> Well if this thread did nothing else,it ended any worries some of us had about Jeff becoming an Admin again..........




lol he is still welcome anytime...but admins are hard to come by these days


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## TwoSeventy (Feb 9, 2006)

I may be misinformed but I thought all money from sportsmens Lisence went into the general fund. Politicians want let it go directly to DNR or WRD. This way they can use our money for other things because it is coming out of the general budget.


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## Branchminnow (Feb 9, 2006)

I wont cancel my subscription, nor my Network membership, with out them there would not be ANYONE to question where OUR money goes.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 9, 2006)

TwoSeventy! You are absolutely correct that it all goes into the General Fund!

However, it MUST be allocated back for the cause it was collected for.

TCoker,

Now we are getting somewhere! This is the point I wish M. Burch would spend more time dwelling on and have asked him to do so on several occassions.

We are setting around wringing our hands rather than putting pressure on those who actually control the purse strings-the Executive and Legislative Branches of our government. They control the amount of money that flows down hill to the agency and in many cases they direct funds to be applied to areas as they see fit.

Sportsmen/women need to be energized to take action and not just try to place blame on WRD and leave it at that. Our attitude reminds me of Renee Zellwinger's character in Cold Mountain where see relates that men seem to think they created weather but all they do is talk about and then go outside and stand in the rain a go "Dang! It's raining!"

That may have lost something in translation but the point is we need to stop complaining and start acting!

Jim,

You ain't got enough money!


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 9, 2006)

Branchminnow said:
			
		

> I wont cancel my subscription, nor my Network membership, with out them there would not be ANYONE to question where OUR money goes.



Branchy, 

It certainly is not my intent to lead anyone to cancel a subscription or leave the Network.

Steve wrote an editorial, I assume, to generate awareness and perhaps discussion among sportsmen and here we are, discussing.


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## Branchminnow (Feb 9, 2006)

It sounds more like an attack, JMHO sorry if I took it wrong, but with the strong intent of the post seems to be very suggestive.


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## OconeeJim (Feb 9, 2006)

*Yeah Jim,"you don't have enough....*

....money."   And after following this thread, I can't imagine why anyone would want to say that "I are one",

 "lol he is still welcome anytime...but admins are hard to come by these days"


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2006)

_"Keep in mind.. If those folks have to start paying then they have more of a say in what happens on the property."_


_*Righty O *

_


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## AgE (Feb 9, 2006)

Jeff, 
I am so proud of you right now that I could KISS you on the lips!!!!  

AgE


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## OconeeJim (Feb 9, 2006)

*Holy Cow AgE.....*

...where did that buck go that's pictured in your avatar???


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## huntnnut (Feb 9, 2006)

Jeff, 

You're correct, great point!!!  It's no different in any big business.  IMO, you have to have a two-fold approach or in this case perhaps a trifold approach, meaning you have to approach both or all sides of the fence.  The users ie. hunters, DNR/WRD as well as those that make the big decisions ie. representatives and their leaders if you want to cover all the bases and to really have an inpact.  Otherwise you'll continue to only pick up the crumbs.


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## AgE (Feb 9, 2006)

Jim T2, 
He went to grab a bite at the corn pile....... 

The photo was sent to me by a friend.  I have no idea where that deer lives, except in my dreams.

AgE


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## Boudreaux (Feb 9, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Sportsman's fees cover only about 38% of WRD's total operating budget with the remainder coming from all taxpayers in this state. We can not afford to exclude the people that foot the bill for the other 62%.



I have to point out that not only do sportsmen cover 38% of the operating budget, but we are also part of the "other people" making up the other 62% as well.  

Every taxpayer in GA pays for the WRD budget, *sportsmen pay twice*.  Once as a taxpayer into the 62% bucket, again into the 38% bucket.

Why?  Are we paying to harvest the state-owned wildlife, thus why hunters/fisherman pay a WMA fee and bird watchers do not?  (I thought this was what hunting/fishing licenses were for???)

And when I go to a WMA, I also must pay to park on it, even with a WMA stamp to hunt/fish on it.  A use permit should be a use permit.  If you're using a WMA, you should contribute to its upkeep.

And I don't buy saying that charging hikers will give them more say in how WMAs are run or funded.  Someone who has never set foot on a WMA will can call their elected representatives to push an agenda on WMAs, and can speak at the ballot box to get representation under the Gold Dome who support their ideas of how to use WMA/DNR/WRD.

Just because sportsmen pay extra fees for our activities and others don't doesn't mean others have no influence over this.

I'm not against sportsmen paying for the right to use WMAs, but it time to stop discriminating against one type of use over another.  Everyone should pay to use it.  

Six Flags, Stone Mountain, the GA Aquarium, etc. don't care why you're on their property, they charge everyone the same to come in the door.  Whether you ride every ride/look at every animal or just sit on a bench.

It's my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you just paid for it.


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## Toffy (Feb 9, 2006)

*Not quite true*

Jeff isn't quite clear on something here, but it easy to get bloxed up on these numbers.

He may just be mixing up a couple of points, but he says that sportsmen only pay 38 percent of WRDs total operating budget and then he says state tax payers pay the rest.

That is wrong.

If he speaks to  WRD's state  legislatively appropriated dollars, he is very wrong. Of the WRD funds coming from the Georgia Legislature, license fees account for about 70 percent of those dollars ($20 million out of about $28 million)

If he speaks of WRD from all sources, including federal funds funded by excise taxes paid by sportsmen, then you get the breakdown of $20 million on license fees coming back from the legislature of the roughly %0 million WRD has each year. That would give you the approximately 38 percent Jeff is speaking to.

But the funding source of that extra $30 million is NOT the state tax payers as Jeff suggests. At least that is my understanding. 

Jeff, I am certain John can set us both straight on this issue


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 9, 2006)

Networker said:
			
		

> Jeff, I am certain John can set us both straight on this issue




That danged John does that to us all


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## reylamb (Feb 9, 2006)

GA_Hunter, we actually triple dip if you factor in taxes on the sale of hunting goods and matching funds from the Robertson-Pittman fund........

Charging permits to folks to use the WMA system for non-hunting purposes creates a major problem that we do not want to deal with in Georgia.  Believe me, when the likes of PETA get wind that they can pay for an annual (or daily) permit and then be restricted from usage during hunting season, they will raise a major stink.

About 8 years ago the state of New Jersey started charging fees in the form of permits to anyone using their WMA system, bird watchers, hikers, campers, horseback riders, whate-have-you.  It did not take long before they started demanding equal access during the fall as it was cooler.  PETA and the HSUS were at the forefront of that controversy, and they have deep pockets to bring it to the attnetion of the state.  They dropped the program and the permit for non-hunters.

It is my understanding, and I may be wrong here, but aren't the WMA's closed to the general population during hunting seasons?


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## OconeeJim (Feb 9, 2006)

*Is that Sweet Tater Head getting.....*

..... larger, each time it appears ?


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## Boudreaux (Feb 9, 2006)

reylamb said:
			
		

> About 8 years ago the state of New Jersey started charging fees in the form of permits to anyone using their WMA system, bird watchers, hikers, campers, horseback riders, whate-have-you.  It did not take long before they started demanding equal access during the fall as it was cooler.  PETA and the HSUS were at the forefront of that controversy, and they have deep pockets to bring it to the attnetion of the state.  They dropped the program and the permit for non-hunters.



I would not want to see that happen here.  Just annoys me that I have to pay for usage and others do not.  The WMA that I visit often - Clarks Hill - allows "fox hunters" from the local Country Club to ride their horses and run their hounds across the WMA.  Local DNR never stops them to ask for hunting licesnse or WMA permits.  Nothing against these "fox hunters", just annoys me how hunters put more $$ into state cofers and continue to get minimalized by the State.



			
				reylamb said:
			
		

> It is my understanding, and I may be wrong here, but aren't the WMA's closed to the general population during hunting seasons?



Not the ones I've been on.  I'm sure there are some, but I'm not aware of which they may be.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 9, 2006)

JimT2 said:
			
		

> ..... larger, each time it appears ?



lol why yes yes it is


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## SADDADDY (Feb 9, 2006)

Something terribly wrong with this picture..... 

night all


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## jason308 (Feb 9, 2006)

reylamb said:
			
		

> It is my understanding, and I may be wrong here, but aren't the WMA's closed to the general population during hunting seasons?



As far as I know, the general public is allowed to be on WMAs during hunting seasons.

Page 15, GA hunting regulations:
Wildlife Management Areas
"General: Camping, pre-season scouting, hiking, picnicking, canoeing, and other recreational uses are allowed year-round, unless otherwise posted at the WMA check station or at a specific recreation site. All WMA visitors are encouraged to wear hunter orange during the hunting seasons. Specific recreation sites may be closed as need for management purposes by posting at the site."


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## reylamb (Feb 9, 2006)

There you have it, I guess I was wrong.  I am not sure why I thought the WMAs were closed to general usage during hunts, maybe that was SC??????????  Then again, I rarely hunt WMAs and never after gun season opens.


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## bubbabuck (Feb 9, 2006)

General Lee said:
			
		

> I would like to remind folks that Mr Burch pays the bill to provide this forum for us.To openly question his integrity on his board is THE most shocking thing I have seen in all my time here.We would have never put up with this type of post directed at Woody, and we should not have it with Mr Burch.I humbly ask that the powers that be remove this thread and let all that have issues with Mr Burch,handle them in the same way we have been asked to handle differences..........




Well said General !!!

I have always stayed out of these obviously combative post .....I usually look at them as entertaining, enjoying watching people pound there chest !!.....However this is not only distasteful.....it is very rude.

I am thankful to be able to enjoy woodys at  Mr. Burch's expense......and I can't wait to get my GON every month !!!!!

Thanks Mr. Burch !!


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## Boudreaux (Feb 9, 2006)

reylamb said:
			
		

> There you have it, I guess I was wrong.  I am not sure why I thought the WMAs were closed to general usage during hunts, maybe that was SC??????????  Then again, I rarely hunt WMAs and never after gun season opens.


 
Some of the recreation areas on Lake Lanier are shut down to the general public during the fall.  However, you can park at the gate and walk in to duck/goose hunt.  I know it's this way at Old Federal Campground.  Maybe that's what you were thinking?????


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## whatman (Feb 9, 2006)

the adult taking the kid hunting has to have a wma stamp.  i know that for a fact.  i don't know if the bird watcher's have to.  i doubt it though.


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## JBowers (Feb 9, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> You will also find that Mr. Burch through his editorials in past years clamoured for an education facility such as CEWC if you go dig through some past issues.


 
That would be June 2003.  Coincidentally, a promise was made in that editorial that has yet to be fulfilled regarding educating the educators who educate our children.


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## JBowers (Feb 9, 2006)

Networker said:
			
		

> Jeff isn't quite clear on something here, but it easy to get bloxed up on these numbers.
> 
> He may just be mixing up a couple of points, but he says that sportsmen only pay 38 percent of WRDs total operating budget and then he says state tax payers pay the rest.
> 
> ...


 
Jeff is more correct.  The last time you editorialized on the budget, there were at least 10 incorrect statements.


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## JBowers (Feb 9, 2006)

Branchminnow said:
			
		

> I wont cancel my subscription, nor my Network membership, with out them there would not be ANYONE to question where OUR money goes.


 
I would take this to be that an individual is incapable of exercising the voice we as citizens have had for over 200 yrs. and they need someone else to do it for them.  I respectfully disagree becuase if an individual doesn't share the stance with either of the aforementioned organizations, then they are silenced.

Qui tacet consentire videtur.  Always has been and always will be.


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## dixie (Feb 9, 2006)

Guy's your beating a dead horse, this isn't your dads or your Grand dad's  game and fish comm., its the dnr and we {hunters}  were number 8 on their list of priorities, we  may be lower now, I quit keeping up with it. there's people on the board of the dnr that don't have a clue what we're about or  what to do about us, they want our monies and then "go away" its that simple.


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## Coastie (Feb 10, 2006)

As hunters and fishermen we have the same right of access to WMAs during the off season as anybody else. We may use the WMAs for hiking, camping, bicycle riding horse riding, bird watching etc same as the general public without paying an extra cent on those WMAs where those activities are available. We pay the hunting fees and WMA fees for the right to hunt during the open season for specific species nothing else. WMA fees are paid to purchase, lease and maintain property for those activities associated with hunting so we as hunters and fishermen gain a place to hunt and fish as well as to enjoy during the off seasons. State owned properties should not be confused with Federal owned properties such as the Lake Lanier recreation areas managed by the Corp of Engineers or the National Forests managed by the USFS. Many of the fee boxes, by the way, have been removed from the National Forests over the past 2 years and parking is free today on many of those locations. Even when there were fee boxes located on WMAs on Forest Service property, all you had to do was write your name and hunting license number on the envelope and park for free during the hunting season. Look at it this way, many of you pay hundreds, even thousands, of dollars each year for hunting leases on somebody elses property. That money gives you the right to hunt that property, during the hunting season and thats it. Yes you may visit the property during the off season and camp and work your food plots, but if the owner chooses to allow others to use the property for other activities during the year, he has every right to do just that regardless of whether it fits into your idea of proper usage or not. A farmer is going to farm his land and allow friends, family and possibly other organizations to utilize his property for anything he wants to. Paper companies are going to harvest timber, cut roads and firebreaks where they choose regardless of your desires simply because they have to in order to maintain the overall property. WMAs are no different, there are many uses for them and many more users than simply hunters. By the logic of some posting here, it would seem that nobody could walk down a public road unless they had a vehicle registration and drivers license in there pocket. The same logic would apply. Vehicle registration dollars are supposed to be used to build and maintain roads, therefore anybody not having a registered vehicle should not be able to use them.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 10, 2006)

Now isn't this fun? 

I do need to correct one mistake I made earlier. I used quotation marks around "Some children pay, some don't".

While setting in the readin room last night I re-read the editorial and Mr. Burch actually used the word "kids" not "children" and the puncuation was different.

Sorry for the error on my part.

Networker, I'm a bit confused by the "%0 million" in your post.

Also, is is it not true that the Federal tax which give credit to Sportsman for providing also in good part comes from purchases made by bird watchers, Boy Scouts, hikers etc?


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## Localyocal (Feb 10, 2006)

It took threes years to get a Joe Kurz permit, drove down set up a camp a day early, then about 9 on the first day of the hunt about 30 horse trailers showed up with twice that many folks. Hunters were real happy, but get this the horse riders were raising a bigger stink about a deer hunt going on. Nothing we could do about it and sure enough they rode all over not just on roads. Heck with it. Now hunters dont even get credit from other hunters about what all we done and do. Even though we pay argue and cram it down our throats about how that dont matter every soccer mom pays just as much so hunters just shut up. I think I seen enough to keep my $19.50 from now on.


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## Spotlite (Feb 10, 2006)

bubbabuck said:
			
		

> Well said General !!!
> 
> I have always stayed out of these obviously combative post .....I usually look at them as entertaining, enjoying watching people pound there chest !!.....However this is not only distasteful.....it is very rude.
> 
> ...



My thoughts as well


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## brandon (Feb 10, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Networker, I'm a bit confused by the "%0 million" in your post.


My guess is that should be "50 million", the shift key was probably a little out of sync on the 5.


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## General Lee (Feb 11, 2006)

R.I.P........................................


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## Inatree (Feb 12, 2006)

To the contributors of this tread
This has been the most interesting, informative and thought prevoking thread I have ever read on this forum.
If nothing else it will serve to get sportsmen/women more involved in budget issues.

Good job and many thanks


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2006)

Networker said:
			
		

> Jeff isn't quite clear on something here, but it easy to get bloxed up on these numbers.
> 
> He may just be mixing up a couple of points, but he says that sportsmen only pay 38 percent of WRDs total operating budget and then he says state tax payers pay the rest.
> 
> ...



Networker,

Evidently you did not read this thread completely and clearly.

I'm surprised you did not already know the facts concerning the money from license fees that goes directly to paying of the bond premium on the "Preservation 2000" and other land purchases, but that is over $8 million that comes directly off the top, before any funds are applied to the operating budget. 

I had already addressed that earlier in the thread and I was very correct.


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## Branchminnow (Feb 13, 2006)

JBowers said:
			
		

> I would take this to be that an individual is incapable of exercising the voice we as citizens have had for over 200 yrs. and they need someone else to do it for them.  I respectfully disagree becuase if an individual doesn't share the stance with either of the aforementioned organizations, then they are silenced.
> 
> Qui tacet consentire videtur.  Always has been and always will be.


I guess I ought to elaborate since my integrity has been questioned here, Without GON I never would have known about the public baiting hearings, never. With out GONetwork, I would not have had a good way other than going out and soliciting money privately to help fund The GA archery in schools program, in my area,thanks to DNR for the grant that funded half the other half came from hunters & fisherman just like me with the willingness to help out our schools,they like me did not know of any other organization out there that was this easy to work with AND that would actually take the time to listen to their members every once in a while. Also with out Networker, I NEVER would have known about the grant money that was available to the middle schools for the archery program.

THANK YOU NETWORKER!    

I know Im off topic here and was probably off topic when i posted the post that is refferred to here, after this response I will refrain.

I guess what Im saying here and you can  call it what ever you wish, is that with out the GON and the NETWORK then there are some things would not have gotten done, lets say they both gave me a way to do something GOOD for my community.
I had no idea there was no other organization that would let me do this, again I will renew my subscription next November as always, and my membership in September in the Network.

BTW this org also let me see how easy it is to contact my lawmakers and let them know how I feel about the issues that are printed in the magazine as well as brought up here by some our more informed posters. 
Thanks to all.


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## tcoker (Feb 13, 2006)

dixie said:
			
		

> Guy's your beating a dead horse, this isn't your dads or your Grand dad's  game and fish comm., its the dnr and we {hunters}  were number 8 on their list of priorities, we  may be lower now, I quit keeping up with it. there's people on the board of the dnr that don't have a clue what we're about or  what to do about us, they want our monies and then "go away" its that simple.


So are we just to sit back and accept whatever comes down the line without expressing our feelings on the issue?  It's a TOTALLY different but i'm sure that King of England would have loved it if we our founding fathers wouldn't have questioned what was goin on and just "quit keeping up with it".  I love when people say "my vote doesn't count anyway" or "they do what they want regardless so why bother".  I agree that this isn't our Dad's or Grandad's DNR, times have changed. It's now OUR DNR it's up to us to put the right people in the right places to actually make a difference.


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## Inatree (Feb 13, 2006)

As someone suggested earlier in this thread that we should all educate ourselves on the business of the DNR's budget, well, I did and Im going to have to side with Mr. Burch on this one. His stance that WRD is taking the majority of the budget cuts (GON 11/05 ) is entirely correct and unchallenged to my knowledge.
In the same issue is a letter from Noel Holcomb(DNR Commissioner )where he states that the entire $20m of liscence revenue is spent toward WRD operating cost and also says that the USFWS kicks in "matching funds"for sportsmens projects collected from taxes on hunting and fishing equipment sales .
So how is it that WRD projects, employees and lands are first on the chopping block with an operating cost of $28m 
and $20m paid up front and matching funds offered by the USFWS ? I am inclined to beleive that WRD would be the the last division to take cuts with it's obvious ability to sustain itself.
Where theres smoke theres fire. I say we all give Mr. Burch our support and give him the power he needs to demand the answers that we will never get through the fuzzy math and political double talk.
This from a guy that just let his GON subsciption run out


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 15, 2006)

Inatree said:
			
		

> As someone suggested earlier in this thread that we should all educate ourselves on the business of the DNR's budget, well, I did and Im going to have to side with Mr. Burch on this one. His stance that WRD is taking the majority of the budget cuts (GON 11/05 ) is entirely correct and unchallenged to my knowledge.



Inatree,

What source did you use to research the budget?


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## Inatree (Feb 15, 2006)

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Inatree,
> 
> What source did you use to research the budget?



Hi Jeff.
In typical .gov form the DNR does not make a complete budget available on their website (that I can find anyway).
http://www.gadnr.org/
I was reduced to compileing info using the search feature in their site. I know that the budget is available to to me but I have not yet requested one and to tell you the truth I really dont want to be the guy that picks up this fumble.
As far as my research goes, I have done just enough to say"I smell smoke".


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