# 7,767 People Accepted Jesus as Their Savior!!!



## crackerdave (Dec 8, 2008)

That was the tally this year for "Judgment Journey" at Faith Baptist Church in lil' ol' Lagrange,Georgia.That is the number of people who prayed to receive Christ,and raised their hand and said so.

Before I get flamed

1]    Only God knows for sure how many were sincere.

2]    Yes,many of them were terrified when they reached the conversion tent at the end of the Journey.It is a very graphic and BIBLICAL depiction of what the earth will be like immediately after Jesus takes His people out of this world.

3]   Yes,we do charge admission,and if you ever see it yourself,you'll know why it costs so much to put on.The admission money goes for next year's presentation.

4]   Yes,we do have a team that does their very best to follow up on each convert - no small task,since they come from all over the country,and even a few foreign countries.

We serve an awesome,powerful God.I am truly blessed to be a tiny part of such a wonderful church,where winning souls to Christ is our number one priority.


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## Lead Poison (Dec 8, 2008)

Praise God!


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## crackerdave (Dec 8, 2008)

Gatorb said:


> Wow~! Great work Rangerdave......................Sounds like an awesome event.



It is! Many youth pastors bring kids and teenagers to it.We used to bring ours,when I went to a smaller church,and several of those kids were saved.That was one thing that made me want to be a part of Faith Baptist.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 8, 2008)

*Praise God!*

Some heavenly shouting & rejoicing is going on ! 

I will pray the harvest grows strong in Christ, Dave.  That's great news to end my online time tonight, thanks for sharing


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## gtparts (Dec 8, 2008)

Well, GLORY to GOD! Praise Him for His faithfulness!


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## Worley (Dec 8, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> That was the tally this year for "Judgment Journey" at Faith Baptist Church in lil' ol' Lagrange,Georgia.That is the number of people who prayed to receive Christ,and raised their hand and said so.
> 
> Before I get flamed
> 
> ...



Awesome!!!  Thanks for sharing


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## crackerdave (Dec 8, 2008)

God is GOOD!


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## Jeffriesw (Dec 9, 2008)

Praise God!


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

> 1] Only God knows for sure how many were sincere.
> 
> 2] Yes,many of them were terrified when they reached the conversion tent at the end of the Journey.It is a very graphic and BIBLICAL depiction of what the earth will be like immediately after Jesus takes His people out of this world.
> 
> ...



Scaring people into making a "decision" for Christ based on unbiblical scenes of the end.....and then keeping a count of how many were "saved"....

Let the flaming begin

Let me ask this:

If someone prays the "sinner's prayer" because they want to escape he11....are they truly saved, or just trying to acquire fire insurance?


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> If someone prays the "sinner's prayer" because they want to escape Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----....are they truly saved, or just trying to acquire fire insurance?


 

It depends on if the Holy Spirit is the one that brought on that revelation of he11... along with the sinfulness of the person...

It could have been just an emotional response to what had been seen, but we do not know that... Only time will tell!

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Scaring people into making a "decision" for Christ based on unbiblical scenes of the end.....and then keeping a count of how many were "saved"....
> 
> Let the flaming begin
> 
> ...


 

Were you not scared when the Holy Spirit revealed to you your total depravity?

I was scared, but also comforted at the same time...

DB BB


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Were you not scared when the Holy Spirit revealed to you your total depravity?
> 
> I was scared, but also comforted at the same time...
> 
> DB BB



Do you think that is what happened at the Judgment Journey?  How many of those 7,000+ people were scared because they were faced with their total depravity?

How many were scared because they didn't want to be "left behind" in a world full of evil, or because they feared burning eternally in the lake of fire?


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Do you think that is what happened at the Judgment Journey?  How many of those 7,000+ people were scared because they were faced with their total depravity?
> 
> How many were scared because they didn't want to be "left behind" in a world full of evil, or because they feared burning eternally in the lake of fire?



I definately feared being left behind or burning in a lake of fire. I pray that everyone who is lost comes to that realization. Only then will they truly understand the depth of God's love and where they are bound and what He did to keep that from happening.

Or the church could have done nothing. Halloween is a purely pagan holiday. This "outreach" by the church durng this time can have positive results though.

I have been to these before. Yes, I agree that it is primarily an emotional scare tactic. However, if only one of those 7,767 made a true profession of faith, then it was worth it. And, of the other 7,766, maybe the follow-up discipleship will produce some more professions after the emotion has worn off.

Also, numbers aren't kept just to brag about numbers. The numbers is a reality check on how much discipleship is needed and administrative issues.

Pretty sad that people come on here and knock the presentation of the Gospel message (which the ones I have seen were just that) as a bad thing.


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Do you think that is what happened at the Judgment Journey? How many of those 7,000+ people were scared because they were faced with their total depravity?
> 
> How many were scared because they didn't want to be "left behind" in a world full of evil, or because they feared burning eternally in the lake of fire?


 

I don't know how many actually experienced a true salvation... I can only pray that most did...

DB BB


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I don't know how many actually experienced a true salvation... I can only pray that most did...
> 
> DB BB



I hope so too....


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> I hope so too....



This is off-topic, but since you are judgemental about how others present the Gospel, how do you do it? How do you personally fulfill the Great Commission?


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> This is off-topic, but since you are judgemental about how others present the Gospel, how do you do it? How do you personally fulfill the Great Commission?



Because I do not agree with how many broad evangelicals do things, I am labeled "judgmental."  I can live with it.  I do worry about how many of those 7,000+ people were given false assurance.  I would be willing to bet, and RangerDave can certainly correct me, that they were told they were all saved.  If 10% show back up at church for a sustained period of time, I would be surprised.  The other 90% will always remember the time they got "saved" and bank on it for their salvation.  This type of evangelizing has done much to harm the church and people.

How do I evangelize?  Probably the same way most of you do.

I talk to people.  I invite people to church.  I give people books and music.  I invite people into my home and provide them with Christian hospitality.    I pray for people, and seek to be a blessing to them, so that God receives the glory.


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## earl (Dec 9, 2008)

Is it fear in a highly emotional enviroment ,or love of god ?


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

With all due respect, emotions over education is not sustainable. I have seen this over and over.

Here is the problem i have with the scenario you presented, and please do not take this as a bash. I know a lot of hard work was done in order to present this show to the public:

These people are not members of your church. You have "saved" them and then they left. No education, no accountability. Back to the life they had an hour before the magical transformation. I have no doubt that the seed was planted but just as Scripture says, it was planted on rocky ground. It will wither and die. Not all of them, just most of them. 

We have all seen vegetation grow out of a rocky face, but have you ever seen a full size Ponderosa pine on a rocky face? It's always a scraggly ol' tree.

Some churches do a great job of educating new members, some don't. I personally feel that if you are going to take the credit for "saving" them, you also bear the responsibility to educate them and follow up and then you have to be there to catch them if they fall. 

Where are these 7767 people now?


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Because I do not agree with how many broad evangelicals do things, I am labeled "judgmental."
> 
> I talk to people.  I invite people to church.  I give people books and music.  I invite people into my home and provide them with Christian hospitality.    I pray for people, and seek to be a blessing to them, so that God receives the glory.



Maybe judgemental is a little harsher than I meant. But, you are quick to point out all the wrongs of other Christians trying to present the Gospel. You are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  I too worry about those other 7,000+ people if only one was saved. However, I rejoice at the one just like Heaven did at that moment. And, you are assuming that the discipleship and follow-up efforts of the church for those other 7,000+ people are going to fail or come up short. I believe others will come to Salvation through that effort as well. Lest we forget, we are at war. I will take every minor victory we can get and be happy.


Your last paragraph. Great. We all do that. It is called making a relationship with someone to make them more comfortable. But, get more down to the nuts and bolts. I am talking about the actual Gospel presentation. How do you do that? What method?


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Where are these 7767 people now?



Where were they before?


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

Were these people given an opportunity to be baptized that night with New Testament baptism?  Jesus instructed His disciples to go into the world and teach.  And to baptise those who believed.  I hope these people weren't sent away incomplete.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

> How do you do that? What method?



I am not quite sure what you mean...

I guess what you are looking for is what I would say to someone with whom I was sharing the gospel...

Start with a Holy, omnipotent, infallible God.  Speak of His Law and how through Adam, all mankind fell.  Talk about how sinners cannot come before a Holy God without a sacrifice, and how God in His mercy provided His own spotless Son to be the sacrifice for a people.  Not only though is Christ our sacrifice, but He is our prophet and king as well.  As our King, His Law rules over us.  As our prophet, His Words are our marching orders.

This gospel presentation is God-centered...rather than man-centered....

You know some of them....God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.  If you don't ask Jesus in to your heart, you will spend an eternity in the lake of fire...etc.

I have never asked someone to pray a prayer with me and then pronounced them "saved."  I have directed people to the Bible, and exhorted them to examine themselves daily to see if they be in the faith....something that we all should do, myself included.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

For me, when a person is ready to give their lives to God thru accepting Jesus Christ I obligate myself to make sure they know certain things.  I do this immediately.
I teach them about the following:
1.  We originally were not God's chosen people.
2.  The people of Israel were God's people.
3.  God sent His Son into the world.  (details of Christ's work)
4.  Jesus' work on the cross (details)'
5.  What God did in salvation of Cornielius.
6.  Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness
7.  Discipleship
8.  Need and purpose of Baptism.
9.  I then ask them if they are ready to share in the death and resurrection of Jesus thru Baptism.  To have their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus.


Hope I didn't leave anything out.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

> 1. We originally were not God's chosen people.
> 2. The people of Israel were God's people.



Did God change His mind?


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## Lorri (Dec 9, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> That was the tally this year for "Judgment Journey" at Faith Baptist Church in lil' ol' Lagrange,Georgia.That is the number of people who prayed to receive Christ,and raised their hand and said so.
> 
> Before I get flamed
> 
> ...



We do serve an awesome powerful God.  This is such great news on the number of people that were saved at your Church.


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Where were they before?



The likely answer is that they were at the same place they are now.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> The likely answer is that they were at the same place they are now.



Or you could take it a step further...They are in the same place they were before, but now they have false assurance concerning the eternal state of their soul.


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## gtparts (Dec 9, 2008)

If only one individual of the 7,767 has the light of Christ in their heart where none existed before, the hosts of heaven could not celebrate more and all the expense and effort is nothing as compared to the value God places on that one. What a bargain! 

What a Savior!


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> Were these people given an opportunity to be baptized that night with New Testament baptism?  Jesus instructed His disciples to go into the world and teach.  And to baptise those who believed.  I hope these people weren't sent away incomplete.



Another thread altogether, but why? Baptism is not necessary for Salvation.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> The likely answer is that they were at the same place they are now.



But, now they have heard a Gospel message. I seem to have read in the Bible somewhere that says when the Word is preached, it will not come back void.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Or you could take it a step further...They are in the same place they were before, but now they have false assurance concerning the eternal state of their soul.



That is 100% judgemental on your part. You have absolutely no idea what happened to those people or the state of their salvation. You are allowing your personal prejudices and such to influence a statement that you have absolutely no surety of. Shame on you.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> If you don't ask Jesus in to your heart, you will spend an eternity in the lake of fire...etc.



I hate to break it to you, but if you don't then you will. That is plain Gospel. That is part of the message that is not being preached in a lot of places and it makes for weak Christians. Before you can know what you need to do, you have to know where you are, what you are and where you are heading.

That is perhaps the biggest positive to a "Judgement House" type approach. Sin and its ultimate consequence are graphically and emphatically stated.


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## Huntinfool (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Another thread altogether, but why? Baptism is not necessary for Salvation.



THANK YOU!  I'm glad I didn't have to bother posting that.

I'm actually suprised.  I purposefully haven't looked in this thread because I figured it would be nothing but bashing the experience.

Were over 7000 actually saved?  Probably not.  But if one was, wasn't it worth the effort and the money?  Like someone said, the seed was planted and where were they before?

They cannot have been in a worse position before.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Did God change His mind?




I'm sure that you are aware that the Gospel was only offered to Jews originally.

I'm also sure that you know that while enslaved in Egypt, God let it be know that they were His chosen people.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Another thread altogether, but why? Baptism is not necessary for Salvation.




I do not understand why you would say that.
Other than the 4 Gospels, the only book in the Bible that gives details of an unsaved person accepting Jesus Christ is the book of Acts.  The acts of the apostles in establishing the church(thru Christ's instructions).

In the book of Acts, as the apostles taught and brought people to Jesus Christ, they always included baptism.  Always.  Jesus instructed them to baptize.

Here's the question:  Why wouldn't Christ expect the same from YOU or ME?

Why NOT baptize????????

I don't understand why it's even an issue.
It is there in print.
It was commanded.
Jesus was baptized to fullfill all righteousness-why wouldn't you????


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> That is 100% judgemental on your part. You have absolutely no idea what happened to those people or the state of their salvation. You are allowing your personal prejudices and such to influence a statement that you have absolutely no surety of. Shame on you.



Perhaps....I have personal experience with several family members that demonstrate my point.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm sure that you are aware that the Gospel was only offered to Jews originally.
> 
> I'm also sure that you know that while enslaved in Egypt, God let it be know that they were His chosen people.



Were Adam and Eve Jews?  How about Enoch or Noah? Then you have to deal with Moses' father-in-law, the Midianite priest.  How about Rahab?  She is even in Christ's lineage.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

I found the "Judgment Journey" on Youtube...

The Promo....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfM9kZC4WA0

Pictures of the Judgment Journey...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_4yFHYQFsg


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Perhaps....I have personal experience with several family members that demonstrate my point.



Again, you have not way of knowing so it is judgemental on your part.

However, I understand what you are saying. The method though is not the problem. The lack of followup discipleship is the problem.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> I do not understand why you would say that.
> Other than the 4 Gospels, the only book in the Bible that gives details of an unsaved person accepting Jesus Christ is the book of Acts.  The acts of the apostles in establishing the church(thru Christ's instructions).
> 
> In the book of Acts, as the apostles taught and brought people to Jesus Christ, they always included baptism.  Always.  Jesus instructed them to baptize.
> ...



I agree 100% that Baptism is important and that it was clearly illustrated in Scripture. However, the Bible does not say it is a requirement for Salvation.


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## Jeffriesw (Dec 9, 2008)

gtparts said:


> If only one individual of the 7,767 has the light of Christ in their heart where none existed before, the hosts of heaven could not celebrate more and all the expense and effort is nothing as compared to the value God places on that one. What a bargain!
> 
> What a Savior!



Amen Brother!


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Were Adam and Eve Jews?  How about Enoch or Noah? Then you have to deal with Moses' father-in-law, the Midianite priest.  How about Rahab?  She is even in Christ's lineage.



I'm not arguing this point with you.  I happen to know that you understand what I am saying.  It is a part of Bible doctrine.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> I agree 100% that Baptism is important and that it was clearly illustrated in Scripture. However, the Bible does not say it is a requirement for Salvation.



Christians live by example.  Ultimately, we want to live like Jesus lives.  The Bible, and we, refer to it as being "Christ-like".
We read the Bible and study it to increase our awareness of how God expects us to live as His children.  The New Testament, inspired by God, has left us examples of how early Christians became children of God.  The people in Acts 2 to were TOLD to be baptized.  The next chapter says God Himself was adding those who were being saved to His kingdom.  
The apostle Paul was told to be baptized.  Actually, he was asked:  "Why are you waiting, arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins."

Why wouldn't I as a minister of the gospel give the same directions to a new believer???
Even if it's 7,000 believers why wouldn't I.  I would.
I don't know how many were baptized on that first day in Jerusalem, but I think it was a bunch.

Baptism is something that use to be important, then it was changed to sprinkling, now it's not important.

God save us who have eyes but do not see.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> Christians live by example.  Ultimately, we want to live like Jesus lives.  The Bible, and we, refer to it as being "Christ-like".
> We read the Bible and study it to increase our awareness of how God expects us to live as His children.  The New Testament, inspired by God, has left us examples of how early Christians became children of God.  The people in Acts 2 to were TOLD to be baptized.  The next chapter says God Himself was adding those who were being saved to His kingdom.
> The apostle Paul was told to be baptized.  Actually, he was asked:  "Why are you waiting, arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins."
> 
> ...



Baptism is 100% important. It is an outward sign of what happened inward. It is a profession of faith in itself. I agree 100% that every new believer should be baptized.

However, I do not find in the Bible that it is a requirement of Salvation.

Anyway, let's let it drop in this thread to keep it back on track. Plenty of other threads on this subject available already with a search.


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

> Baptism is something that use to be important, then it was changed to sprinkling, now it's not important.



RonnieT, RonnieT....

Get ready for this...............

Jesus was sprinkled.

and it is His preferred mode:

Isaiah 52:13-15
"Behold, My servant will prosper,
 He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted. 
 Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
 So His appearance was marred more than any man
 And His form more than the sons of men. 
Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
 Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
 For what had not been told them they will see,
 And what they had not heard they will understand.


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## gtparts (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> RonnieT, RonnieT....
> 
> Get ready for this...............
> 
> ...



Probably can stand a coupla hundred in the back yard and slightly fewer in the front (hilly, with plantings) and get 'em all into Banjo's church with about 15 seconds on the Rainbird timer. Let's see, that's four groups per minute if they are on the move, 60 minutes per hour........ why , that's ......... well, itsa bunch. 

Wait!!!! Whose gonna pay my water bill?


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

gtparts said:


> If only one individual of the 7,767 has the light of Christ in their heart where none existed before, the hosts of heaven could not celebrate more and all the expense and effort is nothing as compared to the value God places on that one. What a bargain!
> 
> What a Savior!




Ahhhhh...another "salvation" cliche'.

Then what of the person who is truly hurting and gets "saved" by walking through the scary woods and by raising her or his hand and praying the "sinners prayer" and all is good until they reach a point where they don't understand why nothng has changed in their lives and nobody has followed through with them or educated them and then they fall back even deeper into the crevase they were in to start with, not trusting Christians or Christianity again...lost forever because somebody cared more about statistics than people. 

THAT is the silliness about once saved, always saved.


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Ahhhhh...another "salvation" cliche'.
> 
> Then what of the person who is truly hurting and gets "saved" by walking through the scary woods and by raising her or his hand and praying the "sinners prayer" and all is good until they reach a point where they don't understand why nothng has changed in their lives and nobody has followed through with them or educated them and then they fall back even deeper into the crevase they were in to start with, not trusting Christians or Christianity again...lost forever because somebody cared more about statistics than people.
> 
> THAT is the silliness about once saved, always saved.



And i forgot to mention the fact tha when the person that "led them to Christ" sees them at the liquor store a few months from now they won't blame themselves for lack of follow through, they'll simply say, "Well, he was never really saved, anyway."


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Ahhhhh...another "salvation" cliche'.
> 
> Then what of the person who is truly hurting and gets "saved" by walking through the scary woods and by raising her or his hand and praying the "sinners prayer" and all is good until they reach a point where they don't understand why nothng has changed in their lives and nobody has followed through with them or educated them and then they fall back even deeper into the crevase they were in to start with, not trusting Christians or Christianity again...lost forever because somebody cared more about statistics than people.
> 
> THAT is the silliness about once saved, always saved.



No. That is the awesome assurance of once saved always saved. Nothing can take you out of God's hands.

What you describe above is a failure of the church to properly disciple the new members.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> And i forgot to mention the fact tha when the person that "led them to Christ" sees them at the liquor store a few months from now they won't blame themselves for lack of follow through, they'll simply say, "Well, he was never really saved, anyway."



Sounds like you are the one with no trust in Christians or Christianity.


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> No. That is the awesome assurance of once saved always saved. Nothing can take you out of God's hands.
> 
> I do believe you are wrong about that but it is a matter of differing beliefs. Hope you're right, though for your sake and the sake of others who have been taught that doctrine.
> 
> ...





PWalls said:


> Sounds like you are the one with no trust in Christians or Christianity.



There YOU go....being judgemental. Your anticipated apology is accepted, though.

Do not assume anything about what I have faith in, unless you want to assume i have complete faith in my education and knowledge of Christianity from BEGINNING until now.


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## PWalls (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> There YOU go....being judgemental. Your anticipated apology is accepted, though.
> 
> Do not assume anything about what I have faith in, unless you want to assume i have complete faith in my education and knowledge of Christianity from BEGINNING until now.



Simply responding to an open-ended statement you made.


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## gtparts (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Ahhhhh...another "salvation" cliche'.
> 
> Then what of the person who is truly hurting and gets "saved" by walking through the scary woods and by raising her or his hand and praying the "sinners prayer" and all is good until they reach a point where they don't understand why nothng has changed in their lives and nobody has followed through with them or educated them and then they fall back even deeper into the crevase they were in to start with, not trusting Christians or Christianity again...lost forever because somebody cared more about statistics than people.
> 
> THAT is the silliness about once saved, always saved.



If you will note, I said "if".

What would be your recommendation for reaching 7,767?

Would your attitude be different if you were the "one"?

Can you imagine God saying, "Don't waste your time on that nonsense again. If all that is going to respond in faith and commitment is one, it isn't worth it. Bolt the door and pull in the latch string, we're done here."


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## gtparts (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> And i forgot to mention the fact tha when the person that "led them to Christ" sees them at the liquor store a few months from now they won't blame themselves for lack of follow through, they'll simply say, "Well, he was never really saved, anyway."



Fact?

Fabrication!


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## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> RonnieT, RonnieT....
> 
> Get ready for this...............
> 
> ...




Banjo, if you think that scripture is saying that Jesus was sprinkled by John the Baptist, you have shocked me.  The sprinkling used in that verse and the sprinkling of the blood on the altar has nothing to do with the immersion that was instituted in the New Testament.  I swear, people will go to any extent to complicate God's simple Word.

Banjo, I'm ashamed and shocked at you, and......I hate your hair.


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## Free Willie (Dec 9, 2008)

Sure thing. Whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## Huntinfool (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> And i forgot to mention the fact tha when the person that "led them to Christ" sees them at the liquor store a few months from now they won't blame themselves for lack of follow through, they'll simply say, "Well, he was never really saved, anyway."



What in the world does the liquor store have to do with salvation?

Willie, I agree with the spirit of what you're trying to get across.  There are lots of those 7000 who think they are saved.  But you're making the assumption that they will never continue seeking or longing for Christ.

You're assuming that they will run into hardship and completely reject Christ.  In my case, I had several of these "experiences" before I had the real one.  But the seed and the knowledge was planted every time...and it grew.

I think your issue is with the statement that 7000+ were "saved" which all of us know is not true.  But, how about if we put it this way.  7000+ were affected for Christ via this avenue.

Whether they were saved or whether they were simply made more aware of their need for him is not for me to say.  But, of course, not all of them truly surrendered to the Lordship of Christ.  

The point is that I'm glad they were affected in some way for the sake of him and hope that the work that was started continues on...


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## Banjo (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> Banjo, if you think that scripture is saying that Jesus was sprinkled by John the Baptist, you have shocked me.  The sprinkling used in that verse and the sprinkling of the blood on the altar has nothing to do with the immersion that was instituted in the New Testament.  I swear, people will go to any extent to complicate God's simple Word.
> 
> Banjo, I'm ashamed and shocked at you, and......I hate your hair.



RonnieT.....John the Baptist was in the line of the priests....They sprinkled.  Why do you think he did anything differently...

God's Word is fairly simple.  After reading it, I come away with sprinkling or pouring as the mode.  Don't be ashamed of me....and I will try and do something about the hair.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Scaring people into making a "decision" for Christ based on unbiblical scenes of the end.....and then keeping a count of how many were "saved"....
> 
> Let the flaming begin
> 
> ...



Banjo,somehow I knew you'd be first to attack
Your very first sentence shows you are not a careful reader,or you don't believe me when I said - and I quote:
"BIBLICAL!" If you want to check it out,you are very welcome next year,and I'll gladly pay your $5 admission.

As to your question,I suggest you ask God - he is the only One who knows,and the only one qualified to judge.You are certainly NOT.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

PWalls said:


> I definately feared being left behind or burning in a lake of fire. I pray that everyone who is lost comes to that realization. Only then will they truly understand the depth of God's love and where they are bound and what He did to keep that from happening.
> 
> Or the church could have done nothing. Halloween is a purely pagan holiday. This "outreach" by the church durng this time can have positive results though.
> 
> ...



Thank you,sir.


----------



## gtparts (Dec 9, 2008)

Mr Ranger, 

(Sssshhhhhh. Borrowed gtparts' computer.)


You should know as well as I that the Holy Spirit is incapable of drawing more than just a couple of those 7,767 fearful people to Christ in any meaningful manner. Banjo is right. You guys set your sights way to high. I'd limit next year to maybe 500 or so. Besides, you will get labeled as Evangelical Baptists, and heaven knows they already have been obedient to the point where nearly half the saints "upstairs" have SBC stamped inside their halos. Back off and give the others a chance. Some churches around here have not had 700 visitors in the last five years. Lucky to have five baptisms a year from people not already affiliated  with the church by family.



Wonder why my picture is in the upper left hand corner. Hmmmm?

Gotta go.  Going down to Georgia, looking for a soul to steal.

Ta Ta for now.


----------



## furtaker (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Scaring people into making a "decision" for Christ based on unbiblical scenes of the end.....and then keeping a count of how many were "saved"....
> 
> Let the flaming begin
> 
> ...



Wow, it's awesome to meet someone who has the spiritual gift to determine the salvation of other individuals 

If the people in question heard a clear gospel message and believed in Jesus for eternal life, they have eternal life no matter what.  Jesus guaranteed it over and over in the gospel of John.

You are no judge as to whether or not the people trusted in Christ or not.  Actually, you have no idea.  Maybe they all did, maybe some did, who knows.

Nowhere does the Bible teach to question a person's salvation on the basis of their behavior, like you have implied.  

Rather, it teaches that it is possible that believers can live in sin.

It's unfortunate, but it's true.

That's why the Apostle Paul was constantly rebuking CHRISTIANS in his letters.


----------



## farmasis (Dec 9, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> Banjo,somehow I knew you'd be first to attack
> Your very first sentence shows you are not a careful reader,or you don't believe me when I said - and I quote:
> "BIBLICAL!" If you want to check it out,you are very welcome next year,and I'll gladly pay your $5 admission.
> 
> As to your question,I suggest you ask God - he is the only One who knows,and the only one qualified to judge.You are certainly NOT.


 
Ranger, if just one of those truely made a committment to God and asked Jesus to save their soul then all of heaven is rejoicing. 

Think about that. How awesome to have any part of bringing someone to the knowledge of Christ. And to take something that traditionally Satan used to draw people away from good, surely has him fuming.

If the others were merely scared into doing something, or by peer pressure joined others then they may not be saved, but if they heard the gospel- then the job was done. Someone may turn to something they heard of saw years later.


----------



## StriperAddict (Dec 9, 2008)

This is one of the few times I’ve been surprised by reactions to a Spiritual Post.  Shouldn’t we be thankful over Christ being preached?  

Banjo, you weren’t at the event.  And you didn’t have any part in the discipleship to follow.  You are making a shallow, judgment call based on one 2 minute post about an event that just may have the potential to shake heaven, which lasted probably a couple of hours.

The seal of the Lord is this… the LORD knows them that are His. Not you, me or anyone else.  Besides,  He-ll  is a topic our Savior brought up many times, and His descriptions were quite graphic.  Often Billy Graham has used an entire night during a crusade to talk about it also.  He admits he doesn’t like to, and I don’t either, but it is still truth out of the word, and when a disciple or even church production group for that matter is led to do so by the Spirit of God, who are we to question the direction or even speculate about its effect?

_What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yes, and will rejoice._  Philippians 1:18


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> With all due respect, emotions over education is not sustainable. I have seen this over and over.
> 
> Here is the problem i have with the scenario you presented, and please do not take this as a bash. I know a lot of hard work was done in order to present this show to the public:
> 
> ...



Here is another critic who did not read my post.Did you not read the part that said we have a follow-up ministry? Do you understand what a follow-up ministry is,or should I explain it to you?


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

farmasis said:


> Ranger, if just one of those truely made a committment to God and asked Jesus to save their soul then all of heaven is rejoicing.
> 
> Think about that. How awesome to have any part of bringing someone to the knowledge of Christ. And to take something that traditionally Satan used to draw people away from good, surely has him fuming.
> 
> If the others were merely scared into doing something, or by peer pressure joined others then they may not be saved, but if they heard the gospel- then the job was done. Someone may turn to something they heard of saw years later.



Exactly!


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> Were these people given an opportunity to be baptized that night with New Testament baptism?  Jesus instructed His disciples to go into the world and teach.  And to baptise those who believed.  I hope these people weren't sent away incomplete.



You're kidding,right?

Our people are out there giving it all we've got,sometimes till 1 am. Do you think we're going to stay there till mid-morning or so to baptize them? We are not the only church there is.As I have said - these people come from all over this country,and some other countries.  Perhaps you'd be willing to put a couple hundred up at your house,till they can get baptized?


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

Gatorb said:


> wow............im not in charge here or anything but seems like y'all could have your theological debates on another thread and leave this one for the folks that want to rejoice with the starter of the thread...idk just sayin'....



Thank you,sir!

To all the critics: When was the last time YOU led somebody to the Lord?  Every year,we hear all these same criticisms,mostly from people who either don't go to church at all,or go to a dead,cold church that could not care less about spreading the gospel to even ONE person. We have had PREACHERS get saved  - we have had little old ladies that have been in "church" for 70 YEARS and never heard a clear presentation of the Gospel.No judgment necessary here - these are FACTS.

I'm trying hard to be civil about this,but I see no reason - other than jealousy - to be critical of this ministry.Or are you working for"the other side?" You're either for God,or you're against Him - ain't NO in between.

I'm through now To all those who rejoiced: God bless you! To all critics: Get to work!


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

Banjo said:


> RonnieT.....John the Baptist was in the line of the priests....They sprinkled.  Why do you think he did anything differently...
> 
> God's Word is fairly simple.  After reading it, I come away with sprinkling or pouring as the mode.  Don't be ashamed of me....and I will try and do something about the hair.





Much better.  Your hair looks great.


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 9, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> You're kidding,right?
> 
> Our people are out there giving it all we've got,sometimes till 1 am. Do you think we're going to stay there till mid-morning or so to baptize them? We are not the only church there is.As I have said - these people come from all over this country,and some other countries.  Perhaps you'd be willing to put a couple hundred up at your house,till they can get baptized?



I think it's great what you and your church do.  You're doing something.  You are doing more than all these other churches, including mine, are doing.  I would assume you have a followup and I imagine that includes addresses and churches that you'll be forwarding information concerning  the salvation commitment each person made.
In regard to the late-night hours and baptizing all those people; believe me when I say this, if it took 48 hours, I'd stay there until each were baptized.  Just like Peter did for the jailor on the night the jailor accepted Christ.  I'd probably find a swimming pool near by.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 9, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> I think it's great what you and your church do.  You're doing something.  You are doing more than all these other churches, including mine, are doing.  I would assume you have a followup and I imagine that includes addresses and churches that you'll be forwarding information concerning  the salvation commitment each person made.
> In regard to the late-night hours and baptizing all those people; believe me when I say this, if it took 48 hours, I'd stay there until each were baptized.  Just like Peter did for the jailor on the night the jailor accepted Christ.  I'd probably find a swimming pool near by.



That's great,Ronnie! We'll be looking for you next year - we will line you up with swimming pools,ponds,lakes,rivers - whatever you need! I will personally see that you have whatever you need to baptize every one of them.

If you only "assume" we have a follow-up,then you didn't read post #1 either.


----------



## Banjo (Dec 10, 2008)

> Wow, it's awesome to meet someone who has the spiritual gift to determine the salvation of other individuals



And isn't that what everyone on this forum is doing?  Either assuming they were saved, or questioning whether they were...

Like I said in an earlier post, I hope they were ALL saved.  I would just like to be realistic about it.  

Remember rangerdave...you said to flame away....so I just tried to ask some pertinent questions.  I do think that you and your church are entirely sincere and zealous, I just don't agree with the tactics.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

gtparts said:


> Probably can stand a coupla hundred in the back yard and slightly fewer in the front (hilly, with plantings) and get 'em all into Banjo's church with about 15 seconds on the Rainbird timer. Let's see, that's four groups per minute if they are on the move, 60 minutes per hour........ why , that's ......... well, itsa bunch.
> 
> Wait!!!! Whose gonna pay my water bill?


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Banjo said:


> And isn't that what everyone on this forum is doing?  Either assuming they were saved, or questioning whether they were...
> 
> Like I said in an earlier post, I hope they were ALL saved.  I would just like to be realistic about it.
> 
> Remember rangerdave...you said to flame away....so I just tried to ask some pertinent questions.  I do think that you and your church are entirely sincere and zealous, I just don't agree with the tactics.



1]  Show me where I said to "flame away," and do some remembering yourself.YOU were the one who said - and I quote - "Let the flaming begin!"I hope your students retain what they read better than you do.

2] What are YOUR tactics - and how many lost people did YOU lead to Jesus in October and November? I have nothing whatsoever against " pertinent questions,"but I don't see many of those from you - just uninformed criticism and a superior attitude to everyone here on this forum. Any more questions?


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> I think it's great what you and your church do.  You're doing something.  You are doing more than all these other churches, including mine, are doing.  I would assume you have a followup and I imagine that includes addresses and churches that you'll be forwarding information concerning  the salvation commitment each person made.
> In regard to the late-night hours and baptizing all those people; believe me when I say this, if it took 48 hours, I'd stay there until each were baptized.  Just like Peter did for the jailor on the night the jailor accepted Christ.  I'd probably find a swimming pool near by.



OK,Ronnie - here's your big chance to be a hero for Christ !
You said above: ""Believe me when I say this,if it took 48 hours,I'd stay there until each were baptized."
I'm "calling you out," as some on Woody's are so fond of saying.Be there next year with your baptizing suit on ready to work - and I mean WORK,not run your mouth - or I will call you a liar. Time to quit talkin' and start walkin! I say this in love,Brother


----------



## Banjo (Dec 10, 2008)

> Before I get flamed



You are right; I stand corrected.  I assumed you knew it was coming, hence the statement and the smiley.



> What are YOUR tactics - and how many lost people did YOU lead to Jesus in October and November? I have nothing whatsoever against " pertinent questions,"but I don't see many of those from you - just uninformed criticism and a superior attitude to everyone here on this forum. Any more questions?



What is this a competition?  Who made it such?  How many lost people have I saved....NONE.  How many have I led to Jesus in October and November....couldn't say, I don't tally the numbers...and I have a problem with those who do.  How tacky is it to walk in a church and see the number of baptisms displayed on the wall?  You guys accuse me all the time of being "prideful," yet I never play the "numbers" game.  The very fact that you posted the number of people that got saved as a result of an event at your church COULD be construed as a sense of pridefulness....

Superior attitude...I've heard that on here before and it kind of makes me chuckle.  All I do is state my opinion; because it differs from yours, I am prideful.  I stand firm in what I believe the Bible teaches, and am unwilling to compromise unless shown from the Scriptures that I am wrong.  Perhaps that is conviction, not pride.


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 10, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> OK,Ronnie - here's your big chance to be a hero for Christ !
> You said above: ""Believe me when I say this,if it took 48 hours,I'd stay there until each were baptized."
> I'm "calling you out," as some on Woody's are so fond of saying.Be there next year with your baptizing suit on ready to work - and I mean WORK,not run your mouth - or I will call you a liar. Time to quit talkin' and start walkin! I say this in love,Brother



rangerdave, I'm not a hero for Christ.  I don't have to be called out either.  Next year, it you offer baptism, and the leadership are willing for me to help, I'll be there.  And I won't do it to prove my point to you.  I'll do it because I have a lot to be thankful to God for.  I hope I didn't say anything that would seem that I took issue with your halloween ministry tactics either.  I'm not so sure you made the above comments in love(especially the 'run your mouth' comment) but I'll take it as that.

Rangerdave. Have you been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?


----------



## Banjo (Dec 10, 2008)

> Rangerdave. Have you been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?



RonnieT...don't you mean in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST?


----------



## Free Willie (Dec 10, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> Here is another critic who did not read my post.Did you not read the part that said we have a follow-up ministry? Do you understand what a follow-up ministry is,or should I explain it to you?



Followup ministry? According to your website, over 40000 have been "saved" in 10 years. 4000 per year. you must have a couple of thousand people in your followup ministry, I'd guess. 

Your condescending tone makes me wonder...did you walk through the Scary-Get-Saved-Today-Trail?

Now, I'm not trying to be a complete smart aleck, but your post touched a nerve with me that really sets me off and that is the score keeping methods that a lot of churches use to validate themselves. I do not know of a single protestant church that actually EDUCATES people BEFORE they allow them to join. That is why most churches have fluctuating membership.


----------



## Huntinfool (Dec 10, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> I do not know of a single protestant church that actually EDUCATES people BEFORE they allow them to join. That is why most churches have fluctuating membership.




Well, you opened yourself up for it.  Ours does.  You are required to go through a series of educational classes with our pastor and elders before you are given the opportunity for membership...

So now, at least you know of one, right?


----------



## PWalls (Dec 10, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> Well, you opened yourself up for it.  Ours does.  You are required to go through a series of educational classes with our pastor and elders before you are given the opportunity for membership...
> 
> So now, at least you know of one, right?



Make it two.


----------



## StriperAddict (Dec 10, 2008)

Three


----------



## Lorri (Dec 10, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> Well, you opened yourself up for it.  Ours does.  You are required to go through a series of educational classes with our pastor and elders before you are given the opportunity for membership...
> 
> So now, at least you know of one, right?






Our church does this as well.


----------



## Huntinfool (Dec 10, 2008)

Ha!  I figured that would happen!  Sorry bud.


----------



## Big7 (Dec 10, 2008)

PWalls said:


> off-topic, but since you are judgemental  about how others present the Gospel,


Judgemental 



Banjo said:


> Because I do not agree with how many broad evangelicals do things, I am labeled "judgmental."  I can live with it. ... given false assurance.... will always remember the time they got "saved" and bank on it for their salvation.  This type of evangelizing has done much to harm the church and people.



There is that false sense of security again.



PWalls said:


> Maybe judgemental .... But, you are quick to point out all the wrongs of other Christians trying to present the Gospel.







PWalls said:


> Another thread altogether, but why? Baptism is not necessary for Salvation.


Sure, It is.




PWalls said:


> That is 100% judgemental on your part. You have absolutely no idea what happened to those people or the state of their salvation. You are allowing your personal prejudices and such to influence a statement that you have absolutely no surety of. Shame on you.


You too...




Ronnie T said:


> I do not understand why you would say that.
> Other than the 4 Gospels, the only book in the Bible that gives details of an unsaved person accepting Jesus Christ is the book of Acts.  The acts of the apostles in establishing the church(thru Christ's instructions).
> 
> In the book of Acts, as the apostles taught and brought people to Jesus Christ, they always included baptism.  Always.  Jesus instructed them to baptize.
> ...


Perfect, almost 




PWalls said:


> No. That is the awesome assurance of once saved always saved. Nothing can take you out of God's hands.


There is that false sense of security, Again.




Free Willie said:


> There YOU go....being judgemental.


On here? 




StriperAddict said:


> This is one of the few times I’ve been surprised by reactions to a Spiritual Post.
> 
> Besides,  He-ll  is a topic our Savior brought up many times, and His descriptions were quite graphic.  Often Billy Graham has used an entire night during a crusade to talk about it also.  He admits he doesn’t like to, and I don’t either, but it is still truth out of the word, and when a disciple or even church production group for that matter is led to do so by the Spirit of God, who are we to question the direction or even speculate about its effect?


Surprised? On here?
Nothing wrong with teaching the down-side of going
to He11 




Banjo said:


> RonnieT...don't you mean in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST?


Hopefully. 

BTW - Ronnie T is right in his next post.
I have always had a problem with "Holy Ghost"
Thanks for clearing that up Ronnie!


Great job rangerdave. I'm sure you and your
Church are very proud of these events.
As well you should be! 

Hope a lot of them "took"


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 10, 2008)

Banjo said:


> RonnieT...don't you mean in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST?



Did you know that the original text, Hebrew and Greek never said Holy Ghost.  It always said "Spirit".  God does not infiltrate the universe and our lives as a ghost.  God is spirit. 

Matthew 28:19
" Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, " Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


----------



## Big7 (Dec 10, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Ahhhhh...another "salvation" cliche'.
> 
> Then what of the person who is truly hurting and gets "saved" by walking through the scary woods and by raising her or his hand and praying the "sinners prayer" and all is good until they reach a point where they don't understand why nothng has changed in their lives and nobody has followed through with them or educated them and then they fall back even deeper into the crevase they were in to start with, not trusting Christians or Christianity again...lost forever because somebody cared more about statistics than people.
> 
> THAT is the silliness about once saved, always saved.



There is that false sense of security, Again.
It is kinda silly, but hey - it's a free country.


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 10, 2008)

rangerdave, tell us some of the distant places people came from to go to Lagrange for your church's halloween event?


----------



## Banjo (Dec 10, 2008)

> I do not know of a single protestant church that actually EDUCATES people BEFORE they allow them to join.



Ours does....and we are quite Protestant.


----------



## Free Willie (Dec 10, 2008)

Well, maybe I stand corrected. I'd like to hear about the process and I'd like to know what denomination these churches are.


----------



## Banjo (Dec 10, 2008)

Families and individuals that wish to join our church go through a few months of classes.  They work through a Member's Handbook.  The leadership teaches the classes and the people have the opportunity to discuss and ask questions.  The vows that they are going to take for church membership are explained and taught through as well.  

We are Reformed Presbyterian.


----------



## Mako22 (Dec 10, 2008)

I hope they all got in but I prefer old fashioned Holy ghost filled preaching to bring sinners to Christ.


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm beginning a new thread concerning church membership.  Please post there rather than here.

Thanks.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> rangerdave, I'm not a hero for Christ.  I don't have to be called out either.  Next year, it you offer baptism, and the leadership are willing for me to help, I'll be there.  And I won't do it to prove my point to you.  I'll do it because I have a lot to be thankful to God for.  I hope I didn't say anything that would seem that I took issue with your halloween ministry tactics either.  I'm not so sure you made the above comments in love(especially the 'run your mouth' comment) but I'll take it as that.
> 
> Rangerdave. Have you been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?


Yes-37 years ago.

I'm not asking you to prove any points,Ronnie - I'm only asking that you come help and do what you say you can do.If you can and do,I promise you I'll be the FIRST to say "Great job!" 
As for the leadership,God is in charge.You can contact my pastor,Brandon Brooks [name and number is in the phone book] and talk to him yourself.
 I totally agree that on-the-spot baptism would be great,and if you can swing it - as I said - I'll help make sure you have West Point Lake or whatever you need to do it.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> rangerdave, tell us some of the distant places people came from to go to Lagrange for your church's halloween event?



Not to dodge your question,Ronnie,but I'll have to get back to you on the exact places.In this country - California.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Ours does....and we are quite Protestant.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> I'm beginning a new thread concerning church membership.  Please post there rather than here.
> 
> Thanks.



Thank you,sir.Did you get that,Mrs.Banjo?


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Big7 said:


> Judgemental
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope and pray so too!


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Followup ministry? According to your website, over 40000 have been "saved" in 10 years. 4000 per year. you must have a couple of thousand people in your followup ministry, I'd guess.
> 
> Your condescending tone makes me wonder...did you walk through the Scary-Get-Saved-Today-Trail?
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to be a complete smart aleck, but your post touched a nerve with me that really sets me off and that is the score keeping methods that a lot of churches use to validate themselves. I do not know of a single protestant church that actually EDUCATES people BEFORE they allow them to join. That is why most churches have fluctuating membership.


Dear Mr.Free Willie:

1] Have you ever heard of a telephone? It's an amazing new device with which one person can call - oh,let's say - 4000 people a year.And then there's e-mail - sha-ZAM!

2] The condescending tone? Answering questions in a clear,brief and to-the-point manner is condescending? 
Yes - I have walked through it roughly 50 times and hundreds of hours as a worker in this ministry - have YOU walked it?  OK,let's move on here - it takes me forever to type this stuff.

3] This next part of your post has me a little befuddled - OK,your poor little nerve got touched - sorry! The score-keeping bothers me a little,too - only a little,although it was one reason why I gave up [for now] my prison ministry.My human supervisor was more concerned about quantity than quality.In the same "paragraph" you're jumping me about educating people before they join the church,etc,etc
What exactly does that have to do with this thread? We don't ask people to join our church - most who come to Judgment Journey ARE church members. What does "fluctuating membership" have to do with this thread?

So - maybe you weren't a "smart-aleck" at all - just under-informed.

Merry Christmas,and may God bless you!
Dave


----------



## Jighead (Dec 10, 2008)

Rangerdave, thank you for sharing your praise report wiyh us. I commend your church for trying to reach the lost, as we should all do. I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked by the religious crowd. To God all the glory.


----------



## Ronnie T (Dec 10, 2008)

Jighead said:


> Rangerdave, thank you for sharing your praise report wiyh us. I commend your church for trying to reach the lost, as we should all do. I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked by the religious crowd. To God all the glory.




Me to Rangerdave.  Results like that has to be shared.  I don't know why but we seem to have an unchristian ablility to antagonize people concerning what they accomplish.


----------



## furtaker (Dec 10, 2008)

Banjo said:


> And isn't that what everyone on this forum is doing?  Either assuming they were saved, or questioning whether they were...
> 
> Like I said in an earlier post, I hope they were ALL saved.  I would just like to be realistic about it.
> 
> Remember rangerdave...you said to flame away....so I just tried to ask some pertinent questions.  I do think that you and your church are entirely sincere and zealous, I just don't agree with the tactics.



Just like I said, I have no idea.  I'm not assuming one way or the other.

You, on the other hand, are assuming the whole thing was a joke because you put "saved" in quotation marks and said you wanted to be realistic about it.

You seem to think that salvation is a difficult process.

Thank God I was freed from that bondage when I understood what grace was about 3 years ago.


----------



## gtparts (Dec 10, 2008)

You know what, it doesn't matter what we think. The question is what opinion does God have about all those people who worked their tails off to create an opportunity to share Jesus AND about all those who made a profession of faith. If one is all that was saved , I'm absolutely certain God was smiling His approval.


----------



## crackerdave (Dec 10, 2008)

Banjo said:


> You are right; I stand corrected.  I assumed you knew it was coming, hence the statement and the smiley.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoops - missed this one.I just got around to answering,Banjo - sorry!

1]  It would be great if it WERE a competition,but there's nothing even remotely in second place in my little town,so it wouldn't be a fair competition.That is maybe the only competition that I can think of God would smile on.

2]  "Prideful?" I SHO am! I'm so proud of what God has done in our church ministry,I just had to tell all y'all.I'm beginning to wish I hadn't - I'm getting tired of all this typing for the few who apparently don't think the working of God - through HIS people - is something to be "prideful" about. As for the numbers - I didn't tally up those numbers personally.I will gladly put you in touch with the person who did,if you have any questions or comments for them. I don't particularly like the idea of "keeping score," as I've already said once.

3]  Finally-I hope - : I am a wildland firefighter by trade,and I can assure you this: Where there's smoke,there's fire. If several people have called you prideful or said you had a superior attitude,well...... might wanna study up on pride,opinions,and convictions and their differences,teacher.

P.S. - Are you here on this OUTDOOR FORUM only to argue your opinions,convictions,etc,etc on the spiritual forum,or do you ever go outdoors?I don't see you much anywhere but here.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

> Are you here on this OUTDOOR FORUM only to argue your opinions,convictions,etc,etc on the spiritual forum,or do you ever go outdoors?I don't see you much anywhere but here.



I hang out in the Spiritual Forum....As far as outdoors...two generations in my family have run a private hunting plantation for more years than I have been alive.  I grew up on it.

Most of my time has been spent outdoors...attending field trials, riding through the woods, running/training dogs, hunting, shooting skeet, fishing, etc....

I think that qualifies me to be on the OUTDOOR forum.



> Where there's smoke,there's fire. If several people have called you prideful or said you had a superior attitude,well...... might wanna study up on pride,opinions,and convictions and their differences,teacher.



The only people who have said such have been those who hold a different opinon.  The "pride" card is always the first to be thrown down from those who have trouble defending their positions.  

I have never played it.  (That statement is an example of pride, not conviction; I definitely know the difference and thought I would demonstrate.)


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 11, 2008)

> - Are you here on this OUTDOOR FORUM only to argue your opinions,convictions,etc,etc on the spiritual forum,or do you ever go outdoors?I don't see you much anywhere but here.


 
I am here to, I wouldn't say argue more like show another viewpoint...

I know everyone is not always going to see eye to eye on things in here, but who knows who is reading these posts, perhaps it will plant seeds for people to think about, and more importantly pray about...

I like to hunt and fish, but with 3 kids I don't get to do that much anymore, and I rarely venture out of this part of the forum...

DB BB


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

How about this for pride?

My husband and I attended a small Baptist church down in South Georgia.  One year we had an evangelist come in, Bailey Smith, to preach a revival (as if a man could summon the Holy Spirit at will).  Anyhow....as my husband sat in on the first meeting, Rev. Smith asked, "How many do you want saved?"

This same church was the one who would send around a bus and round up all the little black children they could (I have no problem with that).  They would then present the gospel and push for decisions.  This was great for them because the preacher could baptize them and up his numbers.  He loved that certificate he would get for having the most baptisms in the district...


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 11, 2008)

Pride is not necessarily good...

DB BB


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## Free Willie (Dec 11, 2008)

My comments in red.



rangerdave said:


> Dear Mr.Free Willie:
> 
> 1] Have you ever heard of a telephone? It's an amazing new device with which one person can call - oh,let's say - 4000 people a year.And then there's e-mail - sha-ZAM!
> 
> ...



Fluctuating membership has everythng to do with your post. If your church is using the "Judgement Journey" or "Tribulation Trail" as another church who obviously copied you, to reach out to lost souls, I am absolutely 100% behind you. My issue is not with the method. My issue is with the rediculous score keeping and the process immediately after the "saving" experience. If you guys are truly actively following up and educating these people then I say BRAVO and awesome job! The statistic I would like to see is the year after. How many stuck with the experience and were properly educated in the Christian religion. How many got scared and raised their hand is not something I would brag about.


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## Huntinfool (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> I hang out in the Spiritual Forum....As far as outdoors...two generations in my family have run a private hunting plantation for more years than I have been alive.  I grew up on it.



And I keep telling her that I'd gladly start agreeing with everything she posts if she'll just get me down there to do a little "turkey herd management".


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## PWalls (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> One year we had an evangelist come in, Bailey Smith, to preach a revival (as if a man could summon the Holy Spirit at will).





I have never been to a revival where a man was summoning the Holy Spirit. I am sure no one on here would agree with that either. But, don't let that stop what looks like a judgemental fly-by sentence now on revivals stop you either.


As for the rest of the post, I am sure you will not find anyone on here either who agrees with what you related. Emotional decisions are seldom true and heartfelt ones. However, they can and do open the door to discipleship which can result in that heartfelt decision.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> Fluctuating membership has everythng to do with your post. If your church is using the "Judgement Journey" or "Tribulation Trail" as another church who obviously copied you, to reach out to lost souls, I am absolutely 100% behind you. My issue is not with the method. My issue is with the rediculous score keeping and the process immediately after the "saving" experience. If you guys are truly actively following up and educating these people then I say BRAVO and awesome job! The statistic I would like to see is the year after. How many stuck with the experience and were properly educated in the Christian religion. How many got scared and raised their hand is not something I would brag about.



You need to be more consistent , IMO. You oppose  "rediculous (sic) score keeping" and then want statistics.
Check the underlined.

The numbers are only significant because they represent individuals with souls. Individuals are pretty important, I would say.

 My take is this: Keep records for informational purposes and follow-up. Give the glory, honor, and praise to God. If any were saved, He alone did the saving. Mr. Ranger and the churches that provided this unusual opportunity deserve some credit for being obedient to God's Word. We should say "Well done." or stay silent. 

We all would do well not to oppose God or disparage those in His service.

As for how many "stuck with the experience and were properly educated in the Christian religion", you ask the wrong questions.

Experience vs Relationship

How many yielded to Christ and were restored to a relationship with God?

 I see this as a personal issue between God and the individual, so the total number matters little.

Indoctrination vs Disciplining

How many are being servant-lead to a lifestyle of following Christ?

I see that as an obligation to the individual and obedience to God, so the total number is not very significant.

Grace and peace be to you and yours.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> And I keep telling her that I'd gladly start agreeing with everything she posts if she'll just get me down there to do a little "turkey herd management".




 We were down at my dad's last weekend.  Every morning I would wake up and look out the back window.  I stopped counting at 40 turkeys....


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo, you get your finger caught in a light socket?


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> We were down at my dad's last weekend. Every morning I would wake up and look out the back window. I stopped counting at 40 turkeys....


 

That is cruel and unusual punishment.... 

poor Huntinfool...



DB BB


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## Ronnie T (Dec 11, 2008)

Score keeping.

The apostles did some score keeping themselves.
Doesn't the book of Acts tell us how many were save on a particular day.  More than once I believe.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> That is cruel and unusual punishment....
> 
> poor Huntinfool...
> 
> ...



She's just that kinda gal.

My wife thinks it's her mission in life to punish me sometimes. My Momma held a similar view, or so it seemed.  Wonder why? Couldn't be me, could it?

I am really getting tired of being on the lowest rung of the chicken ladder.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

I tried to post some pictures on here...but can't figure out how.  Perhaps one of you could tell me.  Because my "OUTDOOR" criteria has been challenged, I was going to back it up with images from last week's excursion.

My new turkey avatar is a picture my dad took.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Find the image file (picture ) on your computer. Copy the location. Go to Reply, Quick or Advanced. Click on what looks like a postcard icon to get "insert image" field. Paste location. Not entirely intuitive , but not difficult. Have fun.

Peace.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Oh, may need to first resize file to post, and of course .jpeg condenses things pretty well.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

gtparts said:


> Oh, may need to first resize file to post, and of course .jpeg condenses things pretty well.



I give up...I tried and it won't work.  I even tried making an album...all to no avail.  I will just keep changing my avatar to substantiate my "OUTDOOR" credentials.....


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## rjcruiser (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> I give up...I tried and it won't work.  I even tried making an album...all to no avail.  I will just keep changing my avatar to substantiate my "OUTDOOR" credentials.....



Boy...I don't check the spiritual forum for two days and WWIII has set off.  Its probably good I didn't have a part in setting off this skirmish.

Check here for an update as to where I was.  It will validate my "OUTDOOR" credentials

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=272656

Oh...banjo, the way I attach photos is by going to the bottom section of the post....where it says additional options.  Click on manage attachments.  A pop-up window will appear (you may have to turn off your pop-up blocker) that will allow you to browse for files.  Just browse and click ok and then hit upload.  As long as the files are within the specs at the bottom of the pop-up, you'll be good to go.

As to this thread...well, I agree with both sides and I'll leave it at that.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

You could send all here a turkey sandwich.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

> As to this thread...well, I agree with both sides and I'll leave it at that.



Chicken...


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

rjcruiser said:


> Boy...I don't check the spiritual forum for two days and WWIII has set off.  Its probably good I didn't have a part in setting off this skirmish.
> 
> Check here for an update as to where I was.  It will validate my "OUTDOOR" credentials
> 
> ...



All right...Those pigs look great.....  My dad has been having some "pig" problems, so come December 22nd...I am in a tree stand.  If I kill anything...you can bet I will post the pictures.


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## PWalls (Dec 11, 2008)

Just to keep this thread completely off-topic.

I couldn't post pics if I tried. I ahve been on this site forever and still am almost totally illiterate when it comes to some simple computer things.

But, I did make sure I learned how to edit posts, delete posts and ban people when I was asked to be a Mod.


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## rjcruiser (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Chicken...



Call me a turkey




Banjo said:


> All right...Those pigs look great.....  My dad has been having some "pig" problems, so come December 22nd...I am in a tree stand.  If I kill anything...you can bet I will post the pictures.



Just a word of advice.  They are a whole lot heavier than they look like from the stand.  Make sure you have a 4-wheeler or other ATV that you can use to get them out.  Oh...and btw, they squeel when you shoot 'em.  Something that I wasn't expecting to hear


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> I give up...I tried and it won't work. I even tried making an album...all to no avail. I will just keep changing my avatar to substantiate my "OUTDOOR" credentials.....


 

You could always use something like this..

http://photobucket.com/

or

www.facebook.com

DB BB


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

*Banjo,*

How bout this?

 Sorry. When I looked back, I realized importing attachment files is not available in Quick Reply and the process should be browsed rather than cut and pasted. Next time I respond, I'll walk myself through the process first just to be sure. Been a while. More rusty matter than gray matter.


Stand back from the screen, it'll look better.


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> You could always use something like this..
> 
> http://photobucket.com/
> 
> ...



I am on facebook....Are you saying I can import pictures from there?  For some reason, I can't even change my avatar now....I am stuck as a turkey forever.


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## gtparts (Dec 11, 2008)

Check out the spurs on Elvis. Some bird!!


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## Double Barrel BB (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> I am on facebook....Are you saying I can import pictures from there? For some reason, I can't even change my avatar now....I am stuck as a turkey forever.


 

I am on Facebook also... There is a way you can share your images in Facebook without allowing people access to your profile... kinda the limitation thingy... I wil have to look into it...

DB BB


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I am on Facebook also... There is a way you can share your images in Facebook without allowing people access to your profile... kinda the limitation thingy... I wil have to look into it...
> 
> DB BB



Thanks!  I tried copy and pasting the link to individual photos as images, but it didn't work....

I wouldn't mind you guys having access to my profile, but I don't want it to be posted on a public forum.


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## christianhunter (Dec 11, 2008)

In defense of the 7000+,who here has not failed,or fallen since Salvation.Who has not struggled with "did I really mean it,was I really sincere enough,was I really Saved?"
I have plenty of times during persecution,hard times,giving in to temptation,etc;.I have Blessed Assurance,it is not for my works,or my actions,that is useless,I would never get to Heaven on that.Jesus shed HIS Blood,and if I call on HIS Name,and mean it,as sincerely as I know how,HE will Save me.Then I'am HIS,because of HIS work,not mine.I fall short,and realize that I'am not worthy of my Salvation everyday.Praise GOD,even on the days,I feel HE is a million miles away,or maybe I really didn't get saved,when I compare myself,to more fruitful believers.HE is right there with me,and HIS word does not come back void."HE KNOWS our frame,and how we were made."Praise an ALMIGHTY,and Graceful GOD,who knows how feeble and weak we are!
The seed has been planted,with all of us,even those 7000+,GOD is THE TILLER,HE is The HOLY Gardener.HE knows,and PRAISE HIS NAME,we don't.HE sees us on the inside,not on the outside,as is the way with man.


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## jmharris23 (Dec 11, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Just to keep this thread completely off-topic.
> 
> I couldn't post pics if I tried. I ahve been on this site forever and still am almost totally illiterate when it comes to some simple computer things.
> 
> But, I did make sure I learned how to edit posts, delete posts and ban people when I was asked to be a Mod.



And you are doing a great job!


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## PWalls (Dec 11, 2008)

jmharris23 said:


> And you are doing a great job!


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## Huntinfool (Dec 11, 2008)

Banjo said:


> We were down at my dad's last weekend.  Every morning I would wake up and look out the back window.  I stopped counting at 40 turkeys....



All I ask is two.

Don't you want another ally around here?  People could call us "The Axis of Trouble" or something like that.  We could get cool t-shirts and everything!


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## Banjo (Dec 11, 2008)

Huntinfool said:


> All I ask is two.
> 
> Don't you want another ally around here?  People could call us "The Axis of Trouble" or something like that.  We could get cool t-shirts and everything!




I failed to mention what woke me up each morning....

It was the duck hunters on the lake, and perhaps a deer hunter or two from the woods.


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## crackerdave (Dec 11, 2008)

Jighead said:


> Rangerdave, thank you for sharing your praise report wiyh us. I commend your church for trying to reach the lost, as we should all do. I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked by the religious crowd. To God all the glory.



Thank you,and God bless you,Jighead! That's exactly what it was - a praise report.It got a lot of criticism and derailment,but I fully expected that - especially here on this particular forum,where there are some who care more about expounding on their beliefs and theories than they do leading folks to the Lord.

We hear all these very same "critiques" every year from all sides,and I try to answer every one the best I can without losing my temper.


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## crackerdave (Dec 11, 2008)

Free Willie said:


> My comments in red.
> 
> 
> 
> Fluctuating membership has everythng to do with your post. If your church is using the "Judgement Journey" or "Tribulation Trail" as another church who obviously copied you, to reach out to lost souls, I am absolutely 100% behind you. My issue is not with the method. My issue is with the rediculous score keeping and the process immediately after the "saving" experience. If you guys are truly actively following up and educating these people then I say BRAVO and awesome job! The statistic I would like to see is the year after. How many stuck with the experience and were properly educated in the Christian religion. How many got scared and raised their hand is not something I would brag about.



Willie - 
I said  - as plainly as I know how - I WAS A WORKER IN THIS MINISTRY. I've been down the trail probably MORE than 50 times - AS A WORKER.

Your other comments aren't even worth answering,to me.
Thanks loads for the "bravo," but give it to God - where it belongs


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## crackerdave (Dec 11, 2008)

christianhunter said:


> In defense of the 7000+,who here has not failed,or fallen since Salvation.Who has not struggled with "did I really mean it,was I really sincere enough,was I really Saved?"
> I have plenty of times during persecution,hard times,giving in to temptation,etc;.I have Blessed Assurance,it is not for my works,or my actions,that is useless,I would never get to Heaven on that.Jesus shed HIS Blood,and if I call on HIS Name,and mean it,as sincerely as I know how,HE will Save me.Then I'am HIS,because of HIS work,not mine.I fall short,and realize that I'am not worthy of my Salvation everyday.Praise GOD,even on the days,I feel HE is a million miles away,or maybe I really didn't get saved,when I compare myself,to more fruitful believers.HE is right there with me,and HIS word does not come back void."HE KNOWS our frame,and how we were made."Praise an ALMIGHTY,and Graceful GOD,who knows how feeble and weak we are!
> The seed has been planted,with all of us,even those 7000+,GOD is THE TILLER,HE is The HOLY Gardener.HE knows,and PRAISE HIS NAME,we don't.HE sees us on the inside,not on the outside,as is the way with man.



Well said!


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## crackerdave (Dec 11, 2008)

gtparts said:


> You need to be more consistent , IMO. You oppose  "rediculous (sic) score keeping" and then want statistics.
> Check the underlined.
> 
> The numbers are only significant because they represent individuals with souls. Individuals are pretty important, I would say.
> ...



Thanks,GT - I agree 100%.

From here,Banjo ran off with this thread like a little puppy with a toy,trying to get other puppies to follow her.A few did - the same ones that always do. She's SO cute!


Seriously - I think this thread has run its course.Should I delete it,or save it for the newbie puppies to dig up and play with at a later date?


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## Free Willie (Dec 12, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> Willie -
> I said  - as plainly as I know how - I WAS A WORKER IN THIS MINISTRY. I've been down the trail probably MORE than 50 times - AS A WORKER.
> 
> Your other comments aren't even worth answering,to me.
> Thanks loads for the "bravo," but give it to God - where it belongs



Be sure and sign your scorecard or you will be disqualified.


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## Lorri (Dec 12, 2008)

Banjo said:


> Thanks!  I tried copy and pasting the link to individual photos as images, but it didn't work....
> 
> I wouldn't mind you guys having access to my profile, but I don't want it to be posted on a public forum.



You can set your profile to private and only allow friends to have access only.


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## Banjo (Dec 12, 2008)

> From here,Banjo ran off with this thread like a little puppy with a toy,trying to get other puppies to follow her.A few did - the same ones that always do. She's SO cute!




I am not so cute....I am downright goodlooking....in an OUTDOORSY kind of way(one more example of pride...I really do know the difference)


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## rjcruiser (Dec 12, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> Seriously - I think this thread has run its course.Should I delete it,or save it for the newbie puppies to dig up and play with at a later date?



Why delete it?  Wasn't the purpose of you posting to have a garden full of flowers be dug up by the puppies?  After all, in your very first post you even put that you thought you'd get flamed.


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## crackerdave (Dec 12, 2008)

rjcruiser said:


> Why delete it?  Wasn't the purpose of you posting to have a garden full of flowers be dug up by the puppies?  After all, in your very first post you even put that you thought you'd get flamed.



Problem is,the puppies don't like to dig,they only chase.
The purpose of the thread was to praise God for a mighty work done through the good people of my church - simple as that.

Actually,I tried to snuff out the flame before it got started  by answering the usual criticisms of our ministry.Unfortunately I forgot a few,but no problem - all the armchair workers for God remembered 'em for me.

I'm amazed that the "Why do y'all charge to get in" one didn't come up.It did when I posted the dates,place,etc. a while back though ,so it's covered.

I'm looking forward to next year,if the Lord tarries and is willing.


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## crackerdave (Dec 13, 2008)

Thanks for everyone who viewed or answered this thread - God bless ALL of you! I hope your CHRISTmas is a great one!

Peace! Truce! My apologies to those who I might have offended.My hackles get up a little when my work for God is attacked. I know Jesus said I shouldn't counter-attack.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 13, 2008)

rangerdave said:


> Thanks for everyone who viewed or answered this thread - God bless ALL of you! I hope your CHRISTmas is a great one!
> 
> Peace! Truce! My apologies to those who I might have offended.My hackles get up a little when my work for God is attacked. I know Jesus said I shouldn't counter-attack.



Your were great rangerdave.  It is we who acted uncomely.


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## crackerdave (Dec 14, 2008)

Ronnie T said:


> Your were great rangerdave.  It is we who acted uncomely.



Thanks,Ronnie - but it was God,not me,that was great.


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