# How should a Christian act?



## christianhunter (Jan 1, 2010)

On here,and even in my personal life,when I fall or fail my walk with THE LORD is attacked.Things like "some Christian you are" or "and you call yourself a Christian".These among others,it seems as though some people just seem to be waiting for you to act in the flesh.
I know we are supposed to walk Holy,and act righteous,but I myself fail miserably.The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.Doesn't the world realize we are human too?
I mean at times we may even get this from our own Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST.Any thoughts on this?


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## pbradley (Jan 1, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> On here,and even in my personal life,when I fall or fail my walk with THE LORD is attacked.Things like "some Christian you are" or "and you call yourself a Christian".These among others,it seems as though some people just seem to be waiting for you to act in the flesh.
> I know we are supposed to walk Holy,and act righteous,but I myself fail miserably.The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.Doesn't the world realize we are human too?
> I mean at times we may even get this from our own Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST.
> 
> ...



just one thought: your brothers and sisters in Christ are human, too.


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## The Original Rooster (Jan 1, 2010)

Ch, 
For me it all goes back to this:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." 
Matt 22:37-40

If you do these two things right, you've gone a long way towards acting as a Christian should act.


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## Israel (Jan 1, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> On here,and even in my personal life,when I fall or fail my walk with THE LORD is attacked.Things like "some Christian you are" or "and you call yourself a Christian".These among others,it seems as though some people just seem to be waiting for you to act in the flesh.
> I know we are supposed to walk Holy,and act righteous,but I myself fail miserably.The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.Doesn't the world realize we are human too?
> I mean at times we may even get this from our own Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST.Any thoughts on this?



In truth the world, as you speak of it, doesn't have a clue as to what you are.
Do you?
If you don't know what you are, you will be easily moved by the opinions of others as to what you are.

You are defeated before you start if you assume the world knows anything of Christ.
That's how something that absolutely denies and mocks the Lord is more than willing to turn and use that deceit on you and I..."some christian you are..." as though they will use what they refuse to acknowledge as a weapon to trip us up.
Don't give in to it.
The world and the devil doesn't know Jesus, but will still use whatever you are willing to allow them to to bring you into conformity with their darkness.

Don't you remember that he tried the same lie on Jesus?

But to you he says "if you are  a son of God..."

Learn how he uses that trick and have nothing to do with him.
You have absolutely nothing to prove to anyone. God knows who you are...is that enough for you?
Is it enough that God who sees and knows all about you, loves you, calls you, and shows you his salvation?
If you see you fail and fall, confess it if the Lord has shown you...not because men want to make a big deal that you are not God...of course we aren't...but that doesn't make Jesus any less Lord of all.


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## christianhunter (Jan 1, 2010)

Israel said:


> In truth the world, as you speak of it, doesn't have a clue as to what you are.
> Do you?
> If you don't know what you are, you will be easily moved by the opinions of others as to what you are.
> 
> ...



Yes Brother,I know who i'am in THE LORD.I'm covered by THE Precious Blood OF JESUS.I'm speaking of family and friends,and as pbradley said before,even Fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ are possible.In general terms I'm referencing the general thought process,that some people have when they see a Christian,who may for example lose thier temper,nothing specific.Then attack us with our Faith.My faith,and belief sustain me,and THE LORD reassures me constantly.I'm saved by Grace,and sealed in HIS POWER of LOVE and forgiveness.


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## christianhunter (Jan 1, 2010)

This is nothing in particular about me.It has just made me curious of late.


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## earl (Jan 1, 2010)

IMHO when you tell some one they are going to he!! because they are not Christian ,you need to have your ducks in a row to be taken seriously.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 1, 2010)

earl said:


> IMHO when you tell some one they are going to he!! because they are not Christian ,you need to have your ducks in a row to be taken seriously.



IMHO, and according to the words of God, everyone will die and go either to heaven or hel l.
Those who believe in Christ will, thru the mercy of God, be granted entry into the kingdom of God.
Those who refuse to believe will not be allowed in.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 1, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.



When you question yourself this way, do you ever get the answer "maybe I shouldn't be judgmental and label things as stupid because maybe it's not really stupid, nor should I blame it for making me fall because the falling is something _I _did"?  Seriously...consider that.


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 1, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> On here,and even in my personal life,when I fall or fail my walk with THE LORD is attacked.Things like "some Christian you are" or "and you call yourself a Christian".These among others,it seems as though some people just seem to be waiting for you to act in the flesh.
> I know we are supposed to walk Holy,and act righteous,but I myself fail miserably.The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.Doesn't the world realize we are human too?
> I mean at times we may even get this from our own Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST.Any thoughts on this?



Everything Israel said. No one is perfect. The only one who ever was, died on a cross. The greatest trick the devil ever played was getting believers and the world to believe you have to be perfect to be a Christian. 




earl said:


> IMHO when you tell some one they are going to he!! because they are not Christian ,you need to have your ducks in a row to be taken seriously.



This supports the idea I presented above. How does one qualify "ducks in a row?"


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## christianhunter (Jan 2, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> When you question yourself this way, do you ever get the answer "maybe I shouldn't be judgmental and label things as stupid because maybe it's not really stupid, nor should I blame it for making me fall because the falling is something _I _did"?  Seriously...consider that.



I don't think you grasp temptation.Sin is obvious to a born again Christian.You flee from it,or you embrace it.Therefore you(I in the reference)know sin from temptation through the acting out of it.You are conscious of sin because you are filled with THE HOLY SPIRIT.All is considered,it is free will,to sin or run from it.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 2, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> I don't think you grasp temptation.Sin is obvious to a born again Christian.You flee from it,or you embrace it.Therefore you(I in the reference)know sin from temptation through the acting out of it.You are conscious of sin because you are filled with THE HOLY SPIRIT.All is considered,it is free will,to sin or run from it.



I grasp temptation quite well.  It's just that the post I answered (OP) mentioned nothing of it.  Oh, and despite not being filled with the holy spirit, temptation is also obvious to the unwashed.  You either give in or refrain from indulging.  It's pretty simple as things go.  Why cloud up such an elementary concept with deities, sins, spirits, born again status, etc.?  Man up and take responsibility when a "stupid thing _makes _you fall".


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> Yes Brother,I know who i'am in THE LORD.I'm covered by THE Precious Blood OF JESUS.I'm speaking of family and friends,and as pbradley said before,even Fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ are possible.In general terms I'm referencing the general thought process,that some people have when they see a Christian,who may for example lose thier temper,nothing specific.Then attack us with our Faith.My faith,and belief sustain me,and THE LORD reassures me constantly.I'm saved by Grace,and sealed in HIS POWER of LOVE and forgiveness.




I think I told you. I think I specifically said that men without faith will try to use that very thing as a weapon against you. Do you marvel at that?


I don't think you heard. Or, more likely, I just didn't say it well enough.
You think you are being attacked for what you do.
I tell you, if you belong to Christ, you are being attacked for what you are.
You say:

"In general terms I'm referencing the general thought process,that some people have when they see a Christian,who may for example lose thier temper,nothing specific."

First, having been in darkness for a conscious portion of my life, I would have to ask you, do you really not understand the hostility in the carnal man? Do you not know that hostility is the normal condition of the flesh?
Should I wonder why a rattlesnake bites me if I tread near it? Or more significantly, on it?
Self defense is part and parcel of what only sees life as flowing away from it...being lost...and needing to be preserved at every point.
The new man is not so.
The new man senses life flowing to him...and likewise understands it is to flow through him. He can't lose what doesn't originate in him...and is being abundantly showered upon him as a gift.

Let me ask you this.
Do you think it mattered to those being scourged at all why Jesus drove the moneychangers from their tables? Do you think they probably thought he just "lost his temper". Do you think any of the "unsaved" there thought..."Oh, he's just doing what his Father, God, has instructed him"?
What about those that called him a drunkard?
Do you think it really had anything to do with how much he drank...or whether he ever staggered down the street at midnight?

It had to do with what they saw and hated in him, and what they did not have...because their "owner" didn't have it...liberty. They were in bondage, and they hated that which is free. Of course they looked for "reasons"...even good religious reasons to condemn him.
In truth my rattlesnake metaphor is poor because a rattlesnake does not have a "headquarters" that directs it to seek out any form of light and try to obliterate it. But the unbeliever does. He is directed, unknowingly, by a source that hates the light...because it testifies of the judgment and condemnation of that source.
Now, if you act a certain way...how am I to be sure you are not just "driving the moneychangers from the temple"? I know the unbelievers will always say..."He sinned and lost his temper"
But the spiritual man is not quick to judge...in truth he leaves it with the Lord.
If the Lord shows a (believing) man is continually bound by the need to defend himself...the Lord will minister grace to help such a one...even though we often may not like the way that grace shows up.
But eventually the Lord will get through and reveal..."What are you all worked up about? Look at Jesus." 
Now, it's true, as it was with Jesus, that even those who say they know the Lord...will sometimes also be quick to jump on the bandwagon of judging you. Even Peter was willing to correct the Lord.
So why should we care at all, if when we probably do something that falls short...that others take up a rant?
Jesus never did (fall short), and he bore with great patience..."The contradiction of sinners against himself".
How much more then shall we not learn to do so.
And how much more should we not easily understand why these things are so?


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I grasp temptation quite well.  It's just that the post I answered (OP) mentioned nothing of it.  Oh, and despite not being filled with the holy spirit, temptation is also obvious to the unwashed.  You either give in or refrain from indulging.  It's pretty simple as things go.  Why cloud up such an elementary concept with deities, sins, spirits, born again status, etc.?  Man up and take responsibility when a "stupid thing _makes _you fall".



Jesus did say something about you, Ham.

It was this:
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

You are quite eloquent in your use of italics.

So, it would appear that you understand it is not a wise thing for a man to blame a weak and stupid thing for having dominion over him.

To that end I will also say that in another place Jesus may well have been speaking of you:

Mark 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. 


If you do seek the truth...and continue to...to your own hurt...I do not doubt for a moment where that will lead.
If you, too, keep dogging that trail past the mere philosophical engagement and amusement it provides for the mind to that place where you also wonder "Why do I seem to know so much, yet have no control over myself..." I have no doubt from whom you will hear an answer.

If truth is just an avocation...however, something that presently suits a need to feel superior to the ignorant minions...then it would be terrible to gain the whole of the world and lose your own soul.

I read recently of the Rebbe Yosef Yitzak
Schneerson having an exchange with someone. 

"Rebbe, I am an atheist"

To which the Rebbe replied, "The god you don't believe in, I also don't believe in."

To that Ham, I would say to you...the Jesus you don't believe in, I also don't believe in.


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## gtparts (Jan 2, 2010)

"Christians Behaving Badly"

When we realize that the New Man is spiritual, yet still in a natural, physical body, living in a fallen physical world, we can come to grips with the simple fact that God knows we will stumble. Sanctification is the process whereby we continually become dissatisfied with where we would choose to be (and are) and more closely drawn to where He would have us be. 
The world will always condemn your short comings and take great pleasure from reminding you and others of your failures. Get used to it. 

Take refuge in the LORD, who picks you up, dusts you off, binds your wounds, and encourages you to finish the race. The race is not against others,.... something to be lost. Since you race against that which is consistent with the world, yet would be a part of you against God's will, it is incumbent that you get up just one more time than you fall down.


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

gtparts said:


> "Christians Behaving Badly"
> 
> When we realize that the New Man is spiritual, yet still in a natural, physical body, living in a fallen physical world, we can come to grips with the simple fact that God knows we will stumble. Sanctification is the process whereby we continually become dissatisfied with where we would choose to be (and are) and more closely drawn to where He would have us be.
> The world will always condemn your short comings and take great pleasure from reminding you and others of your failures. _Get used to it._
> ...



Amen.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

It's one thing the world cannot do, rejoice in their own inadequacies.


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## crackerdave (Jan 2, 2010)

The "world" hated/hates Jesus.The "world" hates Christians. It's always been that way,and will be to the end.

There will always be those that jump at the chance to criticize the actions of a professed Christian. The _hard_ part for the Christian is not striking back.I struggle with that a lot.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 2, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> The "world" hated/hates Jesus.The "world" hates Christians. It's always been that way,and will be to the end.
> 
> There will always be those that jump at the chance to criticize the actions of a professed Christian. The _hard_ part for the Christian is not striking back.I struggle with that a lot.



I struggle with the 'striking back' issue also Dave.
It's tough to be kind to those who treat you badly over and over again.

But, thinking back to the original post and question.  The fact that people are so quick to point out our sins and shortcomings is an excellant reason to strive boldly to live our lives as Jesus lived His.  But we're usually more concerned with defending ourselves.

I'm reminded of a verse:  "live so as to have not even a hint of sexual morality".
When we take all the minutia away, the life of a Christian isn't even suppose to resemble what we use to be.

Rather than becoming like Christ, we try to stay as close to the devil as we can without losing sight of heaven.  We straddle the fence.  We become lukewarm until someone confronts us.  When we're confronted, we defend our lukewarmness by reciting all the scriptures that speak of our inability to be perfect.

We become our own worst enemy.

Rather than us using criticism to catapult us on to better lives, we stand our ground and defend our right to sin.
And it doesn't work that way.

I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone.


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## Lowjack (Jan 2, 2010)

"Christians are sinners who have being forgiven by the Grace of God"That is the only difference between us and the rest of the World.


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## crackerdave (Jan 2, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> "Christians are sinners who have being forgiven by the Grace of God"That is the only difference between us and the rest of the World.



But what about the "new creature" we have become?


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> But what about the "new creature" we have become?



Yes...

The new creature is totally different from the old man...and perhaps most distinctly and notably to be demonstrated in this area...where the old man is full of competition and the need to feel right (because he is not), the new man has absolutely no need to feel "superior" to what he no longer is...
If anything, compassion is the hallmark, not gloating.
Jesus didn't come to show off...he comes to save.


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> I struggle with the 'striking back' issue also Dave.
> It's tough to be kind to those who treat you badly over and over again.
> 
> But, thinking back to the original post and question.  The fact that people are so quick to point out our sins and shortcomings is an excellant reason to strive boldly to live our lives as Jesus lived His.  But we're usually more concerned with defending ourselves.
> ...



I think I've lived up to that verse...or down to it, depending.


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## Tony Two Tone (Jan 2, 2010)

*Christianity is not about the Law... it's about Love!*

The Apostle Paul addressed this question when writing to the Christians in Galatia… “So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves.  

The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law. 

_When you follow the desires of your sinful nature_, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. 

But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law. 

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. If we are living now by the Holy Spirit, let us follow the Holy Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 

Let us not become conceited, or irritate one another, or be jealous of one another.     Galatians 5:16-26


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## Lowjack (Jan 2, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> But what about the "new creature" we have become?


The New Creature acts as Christ did !


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## Tony Two Tone (Jan 2, 2010)

*Good one Lowjack!*



Lowjack said:


> The New Creature acts as Christ did !



Hence, we get the word Christian… which means Christ likeness!


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 2, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> But what about the "new creature" we have become?



That is the $64,000 question isn't it?

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Gakations 6
 12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 

   13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 

   14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 

   15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 


You are either dead to your sin or dead in your sin...


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> That is the $64,000 question isn't it?
> 
> Romans 6:2
> God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
> ...



amen


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## earl (Jan 2, 2010)

ddd-shooter said:


> Everything Israel said. No one is perfect. The only one who ever was, died on a cross. The greatest trick the devil ever played was getting believers and the world to believe you have to be perfect to be a Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't tell me about your Christianity when we are at a ballgame on Sunday and you are halfblitzed on ''Sunday beer''. Or when we are in the deer woods on Sunday morning. Or cussing when you hit your thumb while we are working at your place on Wednesday nite. Any thing along those lines. Now if you tell me while we are passing a joint , I will giggle . Or while asking me to cover for you when your wife calls about that girlfriend. I think you get my drift. It's not so much the unbeliever attacking the Christians as it is the Christian putting their selves in a situation that will give the unbeliever reason to suspect the validity of your testimony.

Or you can keep your ''ducks in a row '' and show me.


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## WTM45 (Jan 2, 2010)

Setting higher standards for one's self is quite noble, regardless of the religious belief system chosen.  One can do just that without choosing a religious belief system as well.


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## Israel (Jan 2, 2010)

earl said:


> Don't tell me about your Christianity when we are at a ballgame on Sunday and you are halfblitzed on ''Sunday beer''. Or when we are in the deer woods on Sunday morning. Or cussing when you hit your thumb while we are working at your place on Wednesday nite. Any thing along those lines. Now if you tell me while we are passing a joint , I will giggle . Or while asking me to cover for you when your wife calls about that girlfriend. I think you get my drift. It's not so much the unbeliever attacking the Christians as it is the Christian putting their selves in a situation that will give the unbeliever reason to suspect the validity of your testimony.
> 
> Or you can keep your ''ducks in a row '' and show me.



it's really not a matter of ducks...the very thing in you that testifies against hypocrisy is the very thing that will bring you to see why the son of God had to die.
I don't know when you will see that, only that you will.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 2, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> On here,and even in my personal life,when I fall or fail my walk with THE LORD is attacked.Things like "some Christian you are" or "and you call yourself a Christian".These among others,it seems as though some people just seem to be waiting for you to act in the flesh.
> I know we are supposed to walk Holy,and act righteous,but I myself fail miserably.The majority of the times I fail,in hindsite I question myself as to why I let such a stupid thing make me fall.Doesn't the world realize we are human too?
> I mean at times we may even get this from our own Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST.Any thoughts on this?




Lots of people and communities prop themselves up by bringing others down. Their focus is not right or wrong behaviours in others, for they know not justice, but rather we and me, myself and us are first and foremost.

There is a trill in kicking someone when they are down... I do this to myself often.

I have come to an observation just recently that might help you. You are probably very good at something regards your work or an occupation. If you don't do this, what ever it is, God will not sing in your ears all the live long day.
You must live your life...as in being able to love greatly from it and learn from your mistakes and not fail for them.

Get yourself in the zone and bat 400.  The spiritual pimps will desert you if you know which way is home and you routinely get there...


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## crackerdave (Jan 2, 2010)

WTM45 said:


> Setting higher standards for one's self is quite noble, regardless of the religious belief system chosen.  One can do just that without choosing a religious belief system as well.



Agreed! But this world is just a very short part of my life,and it _definitely_ ain't my home!


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## earl (Jan 2, 2010)

Israel said:


> it's really not a matter of ducks...the very thing in you that testifies against hypocrisy is the very thing that will bring you to see why the son of God had to die.
> I don't know when you will see that, only that you will.



But as the Christian lifestyle was in question . And that lifestyle is a self claimed ''works'' based walk, shouldn't the ducks be in a line as they walk the walk ?

I doubt I will ever see what you see,as you see it. What I see on a daily basis ,is the walks of Christians. Some have honest question such as ch. Some come to thunder as BH. Some come with a different view such as ddd and yourself. But the ones who stand out the most are the ones that walk a crooked line.


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## Lowjack (Jan 2, 2010)

earl said:


> But as the Christian lifestyle was in question . And that lifestyle is a self claimed ''works'' based walk, shouldn't the ducks be in a line as they walk the walk ?
> 
> I doubt I will ever see what you see,as you see it. What I see on a daily basis ,is the walks of Christians. Some have honest question such as ch. Some come to thunder as BH. Some come with a different view such as ddd and yourself. But the ones who stand out the most are the ones that walk a crooked line.



That is where you are committing the error, the word says "set your eyes on Christ the author of our Salvation", you will never be saved by a christian you will be saved by Christ, worry about your behavior before you go looking into some one elses.

Why don't you accept Christ and become a role model for us imperfect ones ?


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## Israel (Jan 3, 2010)

earl said:


> But as the Christian lifestyle was in question . And that lifestyle is a self claimed ''works'' based walk, shouldn't the ducks be in a line as they walk the walk ?
> 
> I doubt I will ever see what you see,as you see it. What I see on a daily basis ,is the walks of Christians. Some have honest question such as ch. Some come to thunder as BH. Some come with a different view such as ddd and yourself. But the ones who stand out the most are the ones that walk a crooked line.



I can't speak for anyone else's hypocrisy if I don't speak for my own.

I don't ever encourage anyone to "become a christian" because that is not really at all what anything is about.
Besides, that gives one an invitation based on coming to a group, rather than a person, who alone is salvation. That appeal is again, to the club/tribe/frat boy mentality or thinking.

But coming to Christ is far different. It's all the difference there is. Christ loves us, but doesn't stroke our egos. Christ gives us strength, but never to thump our own chests. Christ encourages us, but never to go on believing a lie about ourselves. Christ comforts us, but never to indulge us.
Unfortunately, we often do the opposite with one another...and especially those with whom we develop certain ungodly bonds (the club mentality, again).
So we (I) find in (my) ourselves a part that likes to be amongst those that will let me slide by...if I let them slide by...a part that says...you can still "feel" righteous, even if you know what you are doing is wrong. Just quote the right scriptures, say the right things...and these folks will let you slide...pat you on the back, wish you God speed and think you're a "good" guy. I mean, what could be easier?

Now since I see that in myself, it's not too hard for me to see how others might find that attractive, too.
But Jesus ain't like that at all. He says what he says to his own hurt. He doesn't really care about appealing to anything or anyone, only abiding in the truth of his Father.

And I also learn this, that since the only one who is able to save me outta that first way of thinking...the "I'm OK, you're OK" (as long as you let me slide by) is the one that doesn't sugar coat his words to me. Because despite it all, the "belonging to the christian club" doesn't have a bit of life in it. There's nothing eternal about it...nothing wholesome about it...and really, when examined closely, nothing of the Lord in it.
Now, understand, here I am speaking of the "club mentality" not the church. And the distinction is very real.
For the church is not what sits on the corner, nor what fills the pews, nor even a group of people gathered around a religion.
The church is made up of those who have heard the Lord's call to them, acknowledged who they hear calling them as their Lord...and also know that in that call there was not one bit of of an enticement or appeal of anything but surrender to him alone, by the hearer alone. 
I will, by the faith of God, and the truth of Christ oppose any man who denies or seeks to gainsay against this. 
The call is never to "come belong to our church", or come belong to our group. And woe to men who go about seeking to entice others to "their" side, while using the name of Jesus to do it.
The call, and instruction always remains the same...go to Jesus, stay with Jesus, and do whatever he tells you.
If the church has any "mission"...it is and always has been that...to encourage one another to stay faithful...to only one person.
And if by God's grace one learns that, then he learns he is also doing all "in the church" God has ever wanted. And also, for the church.

So, no, it wasn't Jesus telling you to help a friend with his wife and girlfriend mess.
But I can't tell you you may never see me half blitzed, as that description may vary to some degree...and also can't say that the Lord may have told me to quit before that last beer...cause just cause I do a thing doesn't mean it's in obedience...
Or that I would prefer to always say "thank you Jesus" when I smash my thumb, but can never guarantee what the first thing outta my mouth will be...


Maybe that just makes me a more clever hypocrite, no? 
Willing to give up these few meager confessions for the prize of inwardly treasuring a false idol of what an honest and mighty man of God I am?
The truth is earl, I hardly even know myself...but I am counting on the one who has been faithful to all of his word to allow me to see even the little that has been like lightning before my eyes each time...and who has never played carrot and stick with me.
You know, he has never threatened me with gehenna...he has always just let me have a glimpse of myself from time to time in his light...and as I see him...and what I may be "trying to be"...it's always enough to get me to let go of the crap (I could say dung to be biblically correct) I've been treasuring, and be glad he still calls me his own.


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## earl (Jan 3, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> That is where you are committing the error, the word says "set your eyes on Christ the author of our Salvation", you will never be saved by a christian you will be saved by Christ, worry about your behavior before you go looking into some one elses.
> 
> Why don't you accept Christ and become a role model for us imperfect ones ?





I am not the one making claims to be this or that. If you are what you claim to be then you take it upon yourself to be God's representative to all us'' unwashed '' brothers whether you want the job or not.  Your smug comments seldom help  you with one who is seeking. I kind of like them as they show me we are in deed on a similar level. slalom


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## earl (Jan 3, 2010)

Israel said:


> I can't speak for anyone else's hypocrisy if I don't speak for my own.
> 
> I don't ever encourage anyone to "become a christian" because that is not really at all what anything is about.
> Besides, that gives one an invitation based on coming to a group, rather than a person, who alone is salvation. That appeal is again, to the club/tribe/frat boy mentality or thinking.
> ...





That certainly sounds like the high road and a ''meat'' conversation rather than a ''milk'' conversation. While I do get your point,if I were seeking what you are talking about ,I would have to look to  ''mere Christians '' for guidance. And guess what I would find. Ultimately my walk with God would emulate whatever type of ''club/tribe/frat boy mentality or thinking'' group I ended up with. 
To take the high road that you recommend  I would think you would have to disassociate with mankind in general and become a hermit or a monk. Association with mankind ,Christian or not , will influence you and how you think or believe .


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## christianhunter (Jan 3, 2010)

Israel said:


> I can't speak for anyone else's hypocrisy if I don't speak for my own.
> 
> I don't ever encourage anyone to "become a christian" because that is not really at all what anything is about.
> Besides, that gives one an invitation based on coming to a group, rather than a person, who alone is salvation. That appeal is again, to the club/tribe/frat boy mentality or thinking.
> ...



Great Post Brother,Very well said.Amen!


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## christianhunter (Jan 3, 2010)

earl said:


> I am not the one making claims to be this or that. If you are what you claim to be then you take it upon yourself to be God's representative to all us'' unwashed '' brothers whether you want the job or not.  Your smug comments seldom help  you with one who is seeking. I kind of like them as they show me we are in deed on a similar level. slalom



earl my friend,this is what the OP is about.Lowjack is a Pastor/Rabbi,filled with knowledge.Yet he like all of the rest of us,is not perfect in his flesh.By The Blood Of JESUS he is clean,washed,and forgiven.In essense you have made the OP more palatable and understanding than I did.The world looks at us through our anger,words,actions,or whatever failure they witness.Lowjack has great understanding of THE WORD OF GOD,in The original Languages it was written from DIVINE Inspiration.I personally have gained understanding from his teaching.earl you are seeking,you see us fail,you and I share the bond of starting out on the wrong foot,and becoming friends.If you are looking to us for a basis of comparison,you are looking in the wrong place.Look To JESUS,there is all Wisdom,Understanding,and Truth in HIM.
Peace and good health to you my friend.


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## Lowjack (Jan 3, 2010)

christianhunter said:


> earl my friend,this is what the OP is about.Lowjack is a Pastor/Rabbi,filled with knowledge.Yet he like all of the rest of us,is not perfect in his flesh.By The Blood Of JESUS he is clean,washed,and forgiven.In essense you have made the OP more palatable and understanding than I did.The world looks at us through our anger,words,actions,or whatever failure they witness.Lowjack has great understanding of THE WORD OF GOD,in The original Languages it was written from DIVINE Inspiration.I personally have gained understanding from his teaching.earl you are seeking,you see us fail,you and I share the bond of starting out on the wrong foot,and becoming friends.If you are looking to us for a basis of comparison,you are looking in the wrong place.Look To JESUS,there is all Wisdom,Understanding,and Truth in HIM.
> Peace and good health to you my friend.



Brother, I don't have time to be falling ,because I'm Always getting up 

I don't have time to seek because I'm always finding.

And I don't have time for cynicism because I have Earl, LOL


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 3, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> The New Creature acts as Christ did !



You really act like Jesus C. did?


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> The New Creature acts as Christ did !



To the best of our frail human ability.
Even the chosen Apostles who walked and talked with Jesus didn't always get it right - and Jesus got a little exasperated with them from time to time. As I'm sure He does with me.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 4, 2010)

earl said:


> That certainly sounds like the high road and a ''meat'' conversation rather than a ''milk'' conversation. While I do get your point,if I were seeking what you are talking about ,I would have to look to ''mere Christians '' for guidance. And guess what I would find. Ultimately my walk with God would emulate whatever type of ''club/tribe/frat boy mentality or thinking'' group I ended up with.
> To take the high road that you recommend I would think you would have to disassociate with mankind in general and become a hermit or a monk. Association with mankind ,Christian or not , will influence you and how you think or believe .


 
Earl, it would be far better to see Christ for who He is, and yourself as He sees you (both with or without Him) than to form any alliegance to a person or set of persons in any group or religious society.  

Now before I continue, just to clarify, it might seem I'm saying "drop church", but... 
so long as Christ is the one who turns the lights on for us, we can  welcome being "in His body... the church" even with its flawed folks and bumbling along believers.

The main point is belonging to Him and getting to know Him.  

I'd just encourage you and others with doubts and questions to pour over the scriptures with prayer.  Especially the gospel records. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you.

Now concerning the church body of believers, I've also come along next to some "real" folks in Christ, sins and all as I, and have kept it real with a few of them.  Sure, there are many that won't measure "up", but then, when do I, at my own satisfaction?  Mercy has got to step in at some point of an offense and say "I forgive you" because Christ did the same for me.  This is where the rubber meets the road, and only One got it right to the point of perfect obiedence, even right to the cross.

You prolly get tired of hearing us Christians say we ain't perfect.  But the standard you hope to see could never fully come from me or any other member of the body of Christ. Only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. 

Christ Himself is the "Standard", and knowing HIM in His death and resurrection is life indeed.  All other 'standards' pale in comparison.


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2010)

Amen,Walt!


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## earl (Jan 4, 2010)

StriperAddict said:


> Earl, it would be far better to see Christ for who He is, and yourself as He sees you (both with or without Him) than to form any alliegance to a person or set of persons in any group or religious society.
> 
> Now before I continue, just to clarify, it might seem I'm saying "drop church", but...
> so long as Christ is the one who turns the lights on for us, we can  welcome being "in His body... the church" even with its flawed folks and bumbling along believers.
> ...





Once again , I understand what you are saying. How many times do we see it here that the ''baqbies '' don't understand because God's word is mysterious or needs interpretation that only comes after years of eating ''meat'' ?  When I posted my thoughts on the simplicity of it , it sort of got pooh poohed. So  ,as it has been explained to men this forum ,I have no hoope of understanding on my own. Therefore I am dependant on other men. Or some one is mistaken with some of their views.


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## StriperAddict (Jan 4, 2010)

I didn't mean to squelch your point, if I did, I'm sorry.

I was just trying to say that all of us at some point approach God in "hopelessness", but that is not necc. a bad thing.  Out of death comes life, out of the grave comes the Son of God, and out of our despair and grief we can find life in Him risen from the dead.

Typically, those who came to the cross, self included, did so with a heart broken.  "Man" might have "preached", but faith came at the right time.  But even in our belief, most "see" because God gave sight to (me) the blind.  This has shoved a stake in my pride many times... and still does to this day.

But please don't make the mistake that "man" or "religion" will have anything to do with such faith when it happens.  It might be frustrating, especially as you are seeking.  But the Lord Himself has a way of meeting up with the seeking heart.


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## crackerdave (Jan 4, 2010)

That's some wise words right there,Walt.


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