# Looking to get duck rig***UPDATED ON RIG***



## bowtechrulez (Mar 12, 2014)

So first off I have a 14 ft Jon boat with 5hp Mercury on back. I love the boat but it has it limitations to get where I really wanna go! 

I am looking at purchasing a 1648 weld build with 23 hp copperhead. My question is to others running mud motors what should I pay close attention to being it is used? And extra parts on board. What should I purchase extra in case of bind? 

The condition of the boat is superb I just don't know much about those motors.

By the way motor has. 41 hrs


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

Is the motor all stock? Check the prop and make sure it's in good shape. It's a glorified lawn mower engine so everything is pretty simple. Look for any cracks on the frame and make sure the bearings and belt are solid. Copperhead makes a great motor. Maybe check the grease on the out drive to make sure it's not milky....went to grease mine the other week and what came out was milky, had to pull my out drive off and reseal (not a big deal and simple) and re grease everything.  Is that boat a modv?


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 12, 2014)

Not too sure I am going to look at it end of month.


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 12, 2014)

Pic of boat


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

Did the owner say what kind of speeds he was getting with it and with what load? Also, did he buy this boat as a package new?


----------



## GSURugger (Mar 12, 2014)

Speed will be an issue


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 12, 2014)

Speed an issue? 

I have not been able to talk much to the fella but plan talking this weekend.


----------



## GSURugger (Mar 12, 2014)

a 23 on a 1648 is pushing it.  Is that weldbuilt a true mud hull?


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

I had my 23 MB on a 1546 triton modv, the hull and motor didn't work well with each other at all. I put my 23 on a true mud hull and it's night and day. Now I have seen people running copperheads on those weldbuilt, that's why I was wondering if he bought it new as a package.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

My hull is a 1642 prodigy and it's a beast with just me. Does pretty good with 2-3 guys and gear. I do have a list of mods though...


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 12, 2014)

I will def have to ask about all this! Thank you all for help and advice. Here is last pic I have of boat.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

Already has hydroturf. Looks like it's set up pretty nice.


----------



## king killer delete (Mar 12, 2014)

Alright boys explain the different type hulls you guys are talking about so the rest of us out board guys understand.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

Flat bottom. Usually thicker, mines .125. The transom angle has a lot to do with the performance on mud motors. Mod v hulls aren't ideal usually but people run em and some have decent luck with em


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

Usually the bracing is different so that stumps and stuff don't hook the hull.


----------



## GSURugger (Mar 12, 2014)

A "mud hull" is:
like stated above, braced longitudinally instead of the main reinforcement being transverse.  
Is normally .100 or higher thickness (norm is .125; 1/8") 5086 aluminum
There exist no crimps in bottom of the boat; it is a true flat, smooth bottom
The transom angle is important and fairly specific to the BRAND of mud motor you'll be running.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

^ Yeah what he said lol


----------



## king killer delete (Mar 12, 2014)

GSURugger said:


> A "mud hull" is:
> like stated above, braced longitudinally instead of the main reinforcement being transverse.
> Is normally .100 or higher thickness (norm is .125; 1/8") 5086 aluminum
> There exist no crimps in bottom of the boat; it is a true flat, smooth bottom
> The transom angle is important and fairly specific to the BRAND of mud motor you'll be running.


 This is good info for all I have hunted out of one but never knew the difference. Thank guys that explains why people have problems with just taking a boat that was designed for an out board and put a mud motor on it.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 12, 2014)

That boat he's looking at may work, I wanna say they are lighter boats and it almost seems like those copperheads have better speeds than the same horse motors in other brands. I've seen a few threads on mmt where people had luck with that set up. Won't know really till you test drive it. I would be cautious of stumps with that hull though. It's probably .80 but I could be wrong


----------



## king killer delete (Mar 12, 2014)

dillakilla12 said:


> That boat he's looking at may work, I wanna say they are lighter boats and it almost seems like those copperheads have better speeds than the same horse motors in other brands. I've seen a few threads on mmt where people had luck with that set up. Won't know really till you test drive it. I would be cautious of stumps with that hull though. It's probably .80 but I could be wrong


 How is your new rig holding up Dilla?


----------



## little rascal (Mar 12, 2014)

*don't listen to rugger*

apparently he know's nothing about a 23 h.p. That 23 is one bad dude. It don't matter if it's a "true mud hull", there was a time when he didn't have one or no any better either. It will be a serious upgrade from a 5 h.p. outboard. It's a lawn mower engine and they run forever without tearing up if you do a little maintenance. Just always know, the engine is a separate entity from the outdrive. The outdrive can get costly if you need parts and you have to go back to the manufacture. The engine is universal, you can get it worked on or find part's everywhere. Don't pay too much attention to the hour meter if it has one, lot's of people lie and put one on after they have run it for 2 season's. The boy's in Louisiana will put hundred's or a thousand hours on these motors and they abuse them and they still last. Know this though, these motors are not speed demons, they will haul a Volkswagon and some serious weight, but will not run speeds like an outboard. 
So just shop around and see if you think it is worth the buck's , more than likely it is!


----------



## GSURugger (Mar 13, 2014)

*Don't listen to Alfalfa*

Heck, my first mud rig was a stock 35 on a 1650 Xpress hull.  Needless to say I learned real quick it was not the ideal set up.  Not saying the 23 doesn't have it's place (on a smaller hull perhaps), and true, it doesn't really "matter" if the hull is designed for the motor or not, as it will push the craft from point A to point B.  However, load that 1648 with hunting/fishing gear and 1-2 additional people, and I'll eat my words if it actually planes out and does more than 17-20 MPH (GPS speeds).  A stock 35HP big block on a hull designed for it will hang with any stock 25HP outboard any day.  There's you're comparison, and is the reason out West many 25hp restricted refuges and WMA's have amended their restriction to 25hp water cooled/36hp (because, you know, Prodrive) air cooled motors.     

With that out of the way, you probably shouldn't assume I know nothing in regards to a Vangaurd 23.  I've worked on and run them before, but you're not going to sit there and tell me that you can pull as much power from a 23 as you can a big block 35.  That assertion is equally absurd as it is patently false.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 13, 2014)

Boats doing great Elite! That copperhead should push that boat pretty good. Where you're going to notice the lack of the right hull is when u load it down I think. Just need to run it. All kinds of mods for that 23 also to help  I've got heads, cam, carb, exhaust, and a few other upgrades done to mine. I can carry 3 guys and a hunt load around 20 mph and jump on plane, I did hit 27 the other day running a Creek near my house so I think you will be impressed with the setup your looking at!


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 13, 2014)

Def a lot of info and debate on this topic!!!!! 

What I'm looking to get out of the boat is it to get me to those spots I WANT to go that my current rig can't. Something much more versatile and CAN take west if want to! 

Ad far as speed goes I'm not looking for max speed. I usually take 125 pd gear and my dog and rarely anybody else bc most of my buddies deer hunt. I plan test drive this weekend and get at end of month so ill give update and hopefully vid of test run!


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 13, 2014)

*Here quick question*

Where best place shop to add upgrades? Such as exhaust etc


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 13, 2014)

Since you're in GA, Chad at Prodigy Boats in Jasper could probably hook you up with parts. Performance  vtwins online....bps..... I would talk to Chad!


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 17, 2014)

*Update.....*

Ok so now I need more help than before! I contacted guy with rig and he parted motor. Now my question is what is yalls opinion on motor for this boat? I did find out it is mod v and the thickness he is not to sure about? From what I found the thickest a 1648 weldbilt runs is .100


----------



## dirtysouthforeman (Mar 17, 2014)

Pretty much what I run with a 25hp mercury tiller steer. I like my setup and it runs about 32mph.


----------



## dirtysouthforeman (Mar 17, 2014)

IMG_20140217_142848_287.jpg


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 17, 2014)

I am steering more toward a surface drive something I can use run realllllly shaller!

I am wondering if long tail will do job as well? Maybe 25 hp


----------



## WhackemWilly (Mar 17, 2014)

Yeah I'd say go with a short shaft 25 tiller unless your hearts desire is a surface drive. Nice rig Dirtysouth, you get 32 mph out of that thing? That's pretty impressive


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 17, 2014)

Dirtysouth I do have question what is shallowest you run with rig?


----------



## dirtysouthforeman (Mar 17, 2014)

WhackemWilly said:


> Yeah I'd say go with a short shaft 25 tiller unless your hearts desire is a surface drive. Nice rig Dirtysouth, you get 32 mph out of that thing? That's pretty impressive


 just as it sits in the pic it will do 32. Loaded with dekes gear and a buddy its around 24mph.


----------



## dirtysouthforeman (Mar 17, 2014)

bowtechrulez said:


> Dirtysouth I do have question what is shallowest you run with rig?


I've ran it in a foot of water on the upper end of the flint. I'll throw a older prop on and hammer down through about anything. Only thing to ever get me was some floating marsh grass on seminole


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 17, 2014)

Ya see Seminole is where I want to be this upcoming season and I hear it gets rough! I am looking at the 25gtr surface drive. Only neg NO REVERSE!!!!


----------



## dirtysouthforeman (Mar 17, 2014)

IMG_20131125_082015_322.jpg it sits really shallow in the water. I can drag it around in 6" of water with the motor up


----------



## WhackemWilly (Mar 17, 2014)

Yeah the hydrilla will get you with an outboard.. I only get like 23-24 mph with a Yamaha 25 four stroke on a 16 ft Duracraft.


----------



## Boudreaux (Mar 17, 2014)

I have a GD SD 27 hp for sale in the classified section.


----------



## GSURugger (Mar 18, 2014)

bowtechrulez said:


> Ya see Seminole is where I want to be this upcoming season and I hear it gets rough! I am looking at the 25gtr surface drive. Only neg NO REVERSE!!!!



a GTR has reverse


----------



## bowtechrulez (Mar 18, 2014)

That was typo my end just the gt25 for 5k dose not but extra 800 get you reverse on gtr


----------



## DuckHuntin101 (Mar 18, 2014)

Check out mud motor talk if you want to do alittle more research about surface drives.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 19, 2014)

X2 on mmt. Be careful though, the guys over there aren't quite as easy on ya as they are on here! I would use Google and search mud motor talk weldbuilt boat and read thru some of the threads that Google shows. You will be able to see what other guys are running and how they performed.


----------



## dillakilla12 (Mar 19, 2014)

There are some pretty good deals under the classifieds section on mmt also, rigs for all budgets


----------



## caver101 (Apr 11, 2014)

I run a 1648 SV Weldbuilt with a 27 Prodrive. Nothing wrong with that setup....as long as you know your limitations.

We regularly jump a beaver dam, logs, ect... with two men, dog and gear. The bottom of my hull looks looks ruff, the hull will not last with this same abuse. Most of the Weldbuilt hulls this size are 0.80". I treat this hull pretty ruff for my area and I have not poked any holes in it yet. The transom angle is not well suited for the prodrive and I had to shim the mounts quite a bit to get the trim to work correctly.

I have run my same hull with a 27 long tail. Its slow, but runs in some stupid shallow water - its just a workout to drive and will not turn very sharp. The surface drive is so much easier to drive, turns on a dime and much faster, but will not run in no where near as shallow water and is super heavy. Top speed of the 27 long tail will be mid teens. Top speed of the 27 Prodive is mid 20's on this hull. 

I have heard it put this way: Think of a surface drive as 4x4 for your boat and a long tail as 4x4 low. Both are great options, just your intended use will dictate the better choice.

Same hull with a 25 evinrude 2 stoke (very light weight motor) on a cmc trim will get most places as it is so light you can trim the motor up and idle in 6" or less of water with a light load. Speeds in the upper 20's. You will just not be jumping any beaver dams or bouncing off any logs or stumps.


----------

