# Comparing the BAR to bolt actions:



## SteveP

I will be buying a new (to me) rifle in the near future. I've often heard that bolts are always more accurate than semi-autos. My questions is this, how does the Browning semi-autos compare to the average bolt action rifle with all things being equal? In other words, without modifications and shooting factory ammo. Also, if bolts are usually more accurate, why?


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## Big Mike

FWIW my BAR in .30-06 shoots sub MOA at 100 yards with factory Remington ammo loaded with Nosler Ballistic Tips. I've shot deer with it out to about 280 yards. I bought it new around 1995 or so. My buddy has one in 7MM Mag and it shoots sub MOA at the same distance. His is a Belgian model, manufactured in the seventies. Another buddy has a BAR short-trac in .308 he got for Christmas last year and it shoots sub MOA at 100 yards. I have never personally experienced or spoken to anyone who has had accuracy problems with the BAR.

This is the way I understand th accuracy differences, please correct me if I'm wrong. 

The bolt action remains closed and the locking lugs stay locked during the shot. The semi-autos are timed so the locking lugs stay locked long enough for the bullet to exit the barrel before they unlock and begin the ejection process. This movement during the ejection process is believed to affect accuracy. The movement of the action is inherent of the semi-auto ejection process. Also, semi-autos have more metal to metal tolerance than bolt actions to improve reliability. Hope this helps.


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## olchevy

I have been trying to understand this too. If in a semi auto the bolt stays closed till the bullet leaves the barrel, when the pressure difference is able to enter the barrel then the rifle cycles a new round, why would a semi be less accurate than a bolt. to me if what i said was true by the way I understood it. then the quality of the barrel should be the only deciding factor in accuracy. In only blowback action rifles, ie not gas or piston driven rifles.

I have been looking up on this for a while and have gotten no deffinitive answer yet. Hopefully one of the more knowldegeable shooters on here can clear this up for us.


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## STRAIGHTARROW

Not to get into the auto vs. bolt debate but I can tell you that the BAR is no different than a bolt in one respect...different guns will prefer different ammo.
My BARS shoot much more accurately with certain brands/weights of factory bullets than with others.

A BAR with a favorite load it likes can shoot better than a bolt gun with a not so good load, either factory or handload.

Bottom line ya gotta take the time and experiment to get the best accuracy from it...you may be quite surprised and pleased.


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## tv_racin_fan

As for the BAR look at the "junk" hanging off the barrel. That would explain why the BAR wont be as accurate as a bolt action can be. Kinda hard to free float that barrel. My Garand is mostly the same way. Hard as you may try I don't believe you could take it apart and put it back and have exactly the same stresses the same way every time you did it. Which by the way aint so easy to do with a bolt action either BUT it is much easier to get much closer.


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## Cknerr

With all these sub moa BAR's, why are you not entering them in competition. You would shame the other competitors with their bolt actions!

Semi-autos need extra slop in their chambers to insure the cartridge will load and extract reliably. The gas porting also puts a large hole in the middle of the barrel that doesn't help accuracy. The bolt does not lock up as tight as a bolt action either.... that is for starters.

With less flexing, tighter lock up and tighter chambers from the factory, they are much more capable of being accurate from the factory. Bolt actions can be tuned a lot tighter then any semi-auto for just those reasons. 

All things aside, it is the shooter that usually makes the biggest difference. What the trigger is attached might not make any difference if you don't go to the range and practice.

My 2 cents,
Chris


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## twoshoes

*Bar*



SteveP said:


> I will be buying a new (to me) rifle in the near future. I've often heard that bolts are always more accurate than semi-autos. My questions is this, how does the Browning semi-autos compare to the average bolt action rifle with all things being equal?



In the past, typical bolt action rifles were more accurate than any other action out there (excluding certain single shot rifles). Semi automatic, pump/slide, and lever action rifles had/ have more moving parts than a bolt action or single shot rifles, and the tolerances between the single shot and bolt actions were typically much tighter than those found in other action types. 

When John Moses Browning developed the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) for the military, he knew that his action needed to withstand dirt, debris, varied weather conditions, and irregular cleanings. So the rifle needed to be durable, relatively accurate, but most importantly the rifle needed to be able to consistently lay down firepower downrange whenever the troops came out of the trenches. 

The BAR was developed to be a light machine gun to combat trench warfare. The BAR delivered that when it hit the frontline. 

Over the years and long after John Moses Browning had passed on, the Browning company re-visited the hunting needs of sportsmen and women and saw that semi automatic rifles at that time had two problematic areas: 

1.)   They were not accurate over long ranges (100 yards and greater)

2.) They jammed when cold, dirty, and certain types of ammo

Browning held the patent on the BAR, so they developed a civilian friendly hunting rifle that was durable, reliable, and accurate.

The civilian BARs (mkI and later the mkII) were developed and sold to a hungry public. Over the years the BARs took advantage of certain innovations like the B.O.S.S. and other machining advances. The Browning BAR has tighter tolerances in certain parts of the action and looser tolerances in other to prevent and reduce the chances of jamming. This kept the gun durable and improved its accuracy remarkably. These modifications and improvations made the BAR more accurate then many factory made bolt action rifles manufactured. 

Back in the 90s, I purchased a Browning BAR mkII Safari with the BOSS-CR (conventional recoil). After breaking in the barrel and properly maintaining the rifle, I have been able to shoot 1 inch three shot groups at 200 yards using sand bags and a bench. I tuned the BOSS-CR to shoot Hornady Custom ammo and I have not looked back since. The rifle has served me well in harvesting multiple wild pigs, deer, and other quarry. 

Is it as accurate as my Winchester Model 70 Supergrade? No. Is it close? Yes.

A rifle is only as accurate the operator is and the rifle's  engineering permits. The more time you spend with a rifle at the range practicing, the more accurate you will become as a riflemen or woman. The rifle will become an extension of your body. 

To quote a Boy Scouts of America Shooting Instructor- 

"The difference between a good shot and a great shot is a 5 gallon bucket of empty brass."



SteveP said:


> In other words, without modifications and shooting factory ammo. Also, if bolts are usually more accurate, why?



The more moving parts you have in a action the less accurate the rifle will be because of the tolerances that are needed for the action to cycle or reload. Reduce the amount of moving parts and increase your tolerances and you will have a more inherently accurate rifle.

Typically, hunters using bolt action and single shot rifles take time to make the shot. Hunters hunting with lever, pump, or semi automatic actions, take less time to focus on the shot. This is because of our subconscious mind knows that it takes more time to reload or recycle a action in a single shot or bolt action than it does to reload a pump, lever, or semi automatic action; so they (the shooter) will a lot more time to focus on the placement of the shot.

Accuracy is 10% rifle (and rifle components: scope, rings, and mounts) and 90% operator. 

Would I recommend the Browning BAR? Yes. 

Will it ever let you down? Not if you take car of it.

Will you compete and win rifle competitions with it? Probably not. 

Will you impress your peers at the range with its accuracy? Yes, but only if you spend time practicing your shooting technique.

Is the BAR the perfect rifle for hunting east of the Mississippi river? Yes, but only if you purchase a BAR in the right cartridge (ie. 270 Win, 30-06). 

It is a fine rifle and it has assisted me in providing for my family and others in need. I have dropped my fair share of pigs and deer at 300-350 yards (clearcuts, right of ways). When I take it to the range, it instills a sense of confidence in my abilities and always makes me smile with its accuracy. 

In my humble opinion, the Browning BAR mkII Safari is one of the primer semi automatic rifles on the market today designed for North American hunting.


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## twoshoes

*I second the motion.*



STRAIGHTARROW said:


> Not to get into the auto vs. bolt debate but I can tell you that the BAR is no different than a bolt in one respect...different guns will prefer different ammo.
> My BARS shoot much more accurately with certain brands/weights of factory bullets than with others.
> 
> A BAR with a favorite load it likes can shoot better than a bolt gun with a not so good load, either factory or handload.
> 
> Bottom line ya gotta take the time and experiment to get the best accuracy from it...you may be quite surprised and pleased.



I completely agree. 

Most BARs I have encountered shoot really well with Hornady factory ammo.


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## Killdee

I have never seen a bar that wasent accurate, they are a fine choice for a semi auto, but hey are fairly heavy though. I still own 1 but havent used it in years, preferring bolt actions.


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## CollegiateHunter

I have been fairly reluctant about BARs because of some talk of accuracy issues. However from experience I've never had an issue with them. I have hunted with my buddy's Belgium BAR in 30-06 and taken a couple deer out to 175 yds no problem. 

Think the old saying is true here that if you take care of your gun it will take care of you.


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## roberto mervici

Personally never own one, I like bolt and own several commercial and military fully sporterized in many caliber from .243 to 9.3, all hunting rifles capable of groups from within .500 to 1.5". 
However I shoot for many years a Bar in .06 caliber, a friend and hunting partner, only shoot our owns reloads, Hornady and Nosler, used a small base die and never experience any problem. The rifle was capable of 1.5" groups. 
By the way if I find a "DEAL" I would definetly pick one up either in reg. or magnum caliber, good hunting rifle!


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## THREEJAYS

I have had 4 of them at different times.If you were trying to hit a quarter at 300 yds it may be trouble.If you want a rifle that will be as accurate as most folks are capable of using for clean kills you won't be disappointed.They do get heavy though.


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## Niner

Accuracy isn't really toooo much of an issue with the BAR.  I kindof think the weight helps with its accuracy.


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## SteveP

Thanks for all of the info!


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## Buckhead

I gave up on BARs about 25 years ago because of inaccuracy.  Had two, a 7 mm mag and a .308.  Decent deer hunting rifles, but I never could get either of them to shoot better than 1.5", even with handloads.  They were hard to handload for.  Had to use special dies and be really careful about sizing and cartridge length. The triggers were pretty bad and there wasn't much you could do about it.     

I got spoiled by my bolt action varmint rifles and got rid of them.  Never looked back.  Of course the new ones have BOSS and other differences, but I will stick with my Remington 700s.  If you want an accurate auto, consider a AR platform.


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## blackbear

The Bar is the "Cadilliac of Deer Rifles"


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## Dovebuster33

*Get one you like*

Get a  reputable gun you like the "looks" of and feels good and then put as high a quality a scope as you can afford and odds are it will outperform your abilities. (For hunting purposes) 

DB


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## jwh2

*Bar 300win*

I purchased a belgian bar 300 win mag in the late 70's. The rifle has served me well all of those years. It likes federal premium 180 gr with nosler partitions. It will consistantly shot 3 shot groups at 100yds that you can cover with a quarter. It has a tasco pronghorn scope which has also served me well. I got a wild hair a few years ago to buy a bolt action rifle, winchester model 70, browning a bolt, ruger 77, all in 300winmag all with what should be better optics none would perform as good as the bar. I purchased a howa 300weatherby mag that i am satisfied with shots as good after a bob sims trigger job. I then purchased a howa 300winmag from bob sims it is a gun that he builds, synthetic stock, stainless receiver and barrell, this gun will shoot sub moa at 200tds with good optics. I am finally satisfied and can let my bar rest. I am not trying to sell you anything just leting you know my take on things. If you have any questions pm me i will give you my number and i will be glad to talk.


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## 99Tarbox

Cknerr said:


> With all these sub moa BAR's, why are you not entering them in competition. You would shame the other competitors with their bolt actions!
> 
> Semi-autos need extra slop in their chambers to insure the cartridge will load and extract reliably. The gas porting also puts a large hole in the middle of the barrel that doesn't help accuracy. The bolt does not lock up as tight as a bolt action either.... that is for starters.
> 
> With less flexing, tighter lock up and tighter chambers from the factory, they are much more capable of being accurate from the factory. Bolt actions can be tuned a lot tighter then any semi-auto for just those reasons.
> 
> All things aside, it is the shooter that usually makes the biggest difference. What the trigger is attached might not make any difference if you don't go to the range and practice.
> 
> My 2 cents,
> Chris



Chris, my AR chambered in 6.8x43 is sub MOA, guaranteed.  I'd pit it against any stock bolt rifle out there.  Now, when you are talking about your off the shelf AR in 5.56, I'd agree, but even they have excellent accuracy.  I think the AR, and many semis, have come a long way over the years.  Many competition shooters have switched to the AR platform...


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## runs with scissors

Ive got to throw in my two cents worth...I have a Browning BAR Longtrac in a 300 Win Mag...I have worked up several loads and got this last week on the range @ 100 meters...The first shot was a little high on a clean barrel, but the other two were right on...hope this helps!


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## Ohoopee Tusker

I have two BAR's one is an early 70's 7mm and the other is a featherweight 30-06 from the mid 80's. The featherweight is light and easy to maneuver. Both are killers, I've used them in all kinds of conditions. Never had a problem.


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## Georgiastonewall

Two of the best long range riflemen I have ever seen shoot deer in the field at ranges of 300 or more yards both use BAR's in 243


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## DS7418

I just got a great deal on a BAR-270 for 400oo.
This is my first BAR,, and it is nearly as accurate as my 
custom Rem700 30/06.
 I have a Simmons A-Tec scope on it and im very pleased.
 130gr Nosler BT reloads will hold a 1" group at 100yrds.
Im gonna test some 90gr Sierra HP soon at 3500fps,, they should really be a varmiter's dream round.


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## Rich Kaminski

I will take a Weatherby over a Browning rifle any day of the week!


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