# A Web site that might interest you...



## jmharris23 (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm sure many of you de-churched and non-belivers will eat this alive, but I wanted to share it anyway. 

Just so you don't think I am trying to sneak something over on you, the web site is Christian friendly and designed to help try and explain some of the questions that surround Christianity. 

Anyway, just thought I'd share it.......tear away 

http://www.christianityexplored.org


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## atlashunter (Apr 25, 2011)

Are we free to post atheist websites on the Christian forum?


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## jmharris23 (Apr 25, 2011)

No sir and this is not the Atheist Forum... you may want to go back and read the descriptions placed under the forum headings....just to save you a little time this one says that this is the "Atheist/Agnostic/Apologetic forum.....A place to discuss why you believe what you believe or why you don't" 

I placed this link here as an Apologetic, which is part of the reason for this sub-forum. 

You are very welcome though to post atheist websites in this section and even in this thread.


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## atlashunter (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh that's supposed to be an apologetics website...


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## ambush80 (Apr 25, 2011)

I went to: "Why does God allow suffering?"  Dawn answered:

_"Well, imagine we could actually tell God what to do. Where would you suggest he starts? How about God gets rid of the terrorists and the murderers. That would mean a lot less suffering for many people—but suffering hasn’t been eradicated yet. How about God deals with the paedophiles and the drug dealers and the thieves? We can see the world’s getting a much better place, but it’s still not perfect.

How about God gets rid of the unkind, the gossips, the liars, the selfish—oh, but that’s actually me.

You see, when we ask God to get rid of suffering, we’re actually asking him to get rid of us. We do suffer, but we actually cause loads of suffering ourselves. That time when we lost our temper with someone… when we trod on someone to get to where we wanted to… when we ignored our kids because we were just too tired or busy… when we gossiped about a work colleague… when we were just plain nasty to someone. We cause much suffering.

So if we demand that God throws suffering out of this world, we’re actually demanding that he throws us out too.

God is delaying the day when he will deal with all suffering so that we can realise that we’re part of the problem, and we can ask him if there’s any way not to be thrown out of his world."_

If I could tell God (the God of Abraham) what to do, I would tell him to skip the Earthly part and put us straight into Heaven.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 25, 2011)

I love the one that addresses whether or not it's arrogant to proclaim that Christianity is the only right religion.  The answer is to listen to Jesus and decide for yourself.  

Brilliant.


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## TheBishop (Apr 25, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I love the one that addresses whether or not it's arrogant to proclaim that Christianity is the only right religion.  The answer is to listen to Jesus and decide for yourself.
> 
> Brilliant.


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## bad0351 (Apr 25, 2011)

jmharris23 said:


> I'm sure many of you de-churched and non-belivers will eat this alive, but I wanted to share it anyway.
> 
> Just so you don't think I am trying to sneak something over on you, the web site is Christian friendly and designed to help try and explain some of the questions that surround Christianity.
> 
> ...



I looked and looked....but there was no answer to MY question?
And that is, why does anyone believe this bunk and if I asked nicely, would he bring back the 4 year old my friend lost to bone cancer 6 months ago?....that would have been suffering that we could do without with help from your "all mighty".....What crap


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## TheBishop (Apr 25, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> I looked and looked....but there was no answer to MY question?
> And that is, why does anyone believe this bunk and if I asked nicely, would he bring back the 4 year old my friend lost to bone cancer 6 months ago?....that would have been suffering that we could do without with help from your "all mighty".....What crap



Remember its all according to His/her/its plan, god was just testing your friend,  its all adam, and eve's fault, and unless the four year old accepeted JC as the lord and savior..... well you know.  But dont worry god loves ALL his children, so much that he sends most of them to burn in eternal suffering.  Uhmm ya know what? Crap about somes it up.


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 25, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> I looked and looked....but there was no answer to MY question?
> And that is, why does anyone believe this bunk and if I asked nicely, would he bring back the 4 year old my friend lost to bone cancer 6 months ago?....that would have been suffering that we could do without with help from your "all mighty".....What crap



Welcome to the Spiritual Help and Religion Discussions forum, bad0351.


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## applejuice (Apr 25, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Are we free to post atheist websites on the Christian forum?



Great question


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 25, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Are we free to post atheist websites on the Christian forum?





jmharris23 said:


> No sir and this is not the Atheist Forum... you may want to go back and read the descriptions placed under the forum headings....just to save you a little time this one says that this is the "Atheist/Agnostic/Apologetic forum.....A place to discuss why you believe what you believe or why you don't"
> 
> I placed this link here as an Apologetic, which is part of the reason for this sub-forum.
> 
> You are very welcome though to post atheist websites in this section and even in this thread.





applejuice said:


> Great question




In case you missed the answer


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## applejuice (Apr 25, 2011)

1john4:4 said:


> In case you missed the answer



I saw the answer


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 25, 2011)

1john4:4 said:


> In case you missed the answer



Ever ask a doctor or professor a hard question, and after they answer it they say "But that's a good question."?

That's what happened here.  Just because the question's already been answered doesn't mean the merit of the question is off limits.


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## applejuice (Apr 25, 2011)

It's just funny that a mod post something in the wrong section and someone questions it and the rules are then quoted. I dont make the rules of this forum , nor do I wish to. 
I just thought it was a good question


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## bad0351 (Apr 25, 2011)

*That site may be just the thing...*

the lady in one of the clips refers to god punishing all sinners by sending them to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.
Something christians "hope and pray" is true.
but if there were a merciful all knowing god....why wait to punish and allow the suffering of say....chidren? to go on and on and on when he could easily strike the sinner down and send him...her to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and eliminate the suffering all together while proving to all he exists?
I can answer that question....It's because god, heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- don't exist and christians try and make themselves feel better about all the...not so bad sins they have committed by hoping god will forget the time you took advantage of a young lady in high school or when you took that 20 dollar bill from your friends wallet when he was drunk.
Keep hoping christians and believers...but you need not worry....all will be forgiven when your eyes glaze over and there is just blackness.
I think I stated before that if I ever do find the one responsible for some of the incredible saddness I have seen and he...she...it did nothing to stop it...I will gladly pick up the fight against that god.


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## atlashunter (Apr 25, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> the lady in one of the clips refers to god punishing all sinners by sending them to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.
> Something christians "hope and pray" is true.



It's really grotesque when you think through the implications of that hope and prayer. Because it isn't only the worst of mankind they are wishing to see burn, it's any one that doesn't share their beliefs. It an utterly immoral system which doles out eternal rewards and punishments not based on character or actions but on belief.




bad0351 said:


> but if there were a merciful all knowing god....why wait to punish and allow the suffering of say....chidren? to go on and on and on when he could easily strike the sinner down and send him...her to burn and eliminate the suffering all together while proving to all he exists?



Good question and a decidedly unsatisfying answer you'll get from them in response. That Austrian woman who was kept in a basement and repeatedly raped by her father for 24 years? It's not the fault of the all powerful deity who stood by watching with folded arms. It's the fault of the people who ate a forbidden fruit and all of their descendants. Same with the victims of the holocaust and same with anyone who is killed in a natural disaster.


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 25, 2011)

applejuice said:


> I saw the answer





LOL. You calling me a pot stirrer? Carry on gentlemen and have a good day. I was just poking a little fun, no harm no foul I hope.


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 25, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Ever ask a doctor or professor a hard question, and after they answer it they say "But that's a good question."?
> 
> That's what happened here.  Just because the question's already been answered doesn't mean the merit of the question is off limits.



I know. I was just poking or  with applejuice. I will gladly recieve the troll of the day award.


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## applejuice (Apr 25, 2011)

Its all good


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 25, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> the lady in one of the clips refers to god punishing all sinners by sending them to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.
> Something christians "hope and pray" is true.
> but if there were a merciful all knowing god....why wait to punish and allow the suffering of say....chidren? to go on and on and on when he could easily strike the sinner down and send him...her to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and eliminate the suffering all together while proving to all he exists?
> I can answer that question....It's because god, heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- don't exist and christians try and make themselves feel better about all the...not so bad sins they have committed by hoping god will forget the time you took advantage of a young lady in high school or when you took that 20 dollar bill from your friends wallet when he was drunk.
> ...




For the part in red: Who in the world would pray something like that. I do believe that when a "christian" says something along the lines like "them sinners". They forget the state they were in before Christ saved them. If they truly are saved.


For the part in purple: What exactly are you saying?


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## crbrumbelow (Apr 25, 2011)

1john4:4 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> For the part in red: Who in the world would pray something like that. I do believe that when a "christian" says something along the lines like "them sinners". They forget the state they were in before Christ saved them. If they truly are saved.



Excellent post!


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## jmharris23 (Apr 25, 2011)

I knew you guys would have some fun with this...glad I could provide you with some new fodder. 

As for it being in the wrong section...just once more...it's not in the wrong section.  

Ya'll have fun


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## bad0351 (Apr 25, 2011)

1john4:4 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> For the part in red: Who in the world would pray something like that. I do believe that when a "christian" says something along the lines like "them sinners". They forget the state they were in before Christ saved them. If they truly are saved.
> 
> ...



Don't worry.....since there is no god or heaven or he11....I won't have to pick up any fight...fooled ya didn't I...


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## ambush80 (Apr 25, 2011)

jmharris23 said:


> I knew you guys would have some fun with this...glad I could provide you with some new fodder.
> 
> As for it being in the wrong section...just once more...it's not in the wrong section.
> 
> Ya'll have fun



For the most part the link is apologetic, meaning that they try to offer proofs of faith based on reason (is there such a thing?) but when one says that the proof for the Bible being true is the Bible then that's something else.


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## 1gr8bldr (Apr 25, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> I looked and looked....but there was no answer to MY question?
> And that is, why does anyone believe this bunk and if I asked nicely, would he bring back the 4 year old my friend lost to bone cancer 6 months ago?....that would have been suffering that we could do without with help from your "all mighty".....What crap


What a great loss. So sorry


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> I looked and looked....but there was no answer to MY question?
> And that is, why does anyone believe this bunk and if I asked nicely, would he bring back the 4 year old my friend lost to bone cancer 6 months ago?....that would have been suffering that we could do without with help from your "all mighty".....What crap



If you could ask the 4 year old in question did he/she wanted to come back, your answer would be "no"


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Remember its all according to His/her/its plan, god was just testing your friend,  its all adam, and eve's fault, and unless the four year old accepeted JC as the lord and savior..... well you know.  But dont worry god loves ALL his children, so much that he *sends most of them to burn in eternal suffering*.  Uhmm ya know what? Crap about somes it up.



He sends them exactly where they want to go, apart from Him. Do you want to spend eternity with Jesus Christ? I would bet at least a dollar as to say no, you will be granted your want. What exactly is the problem?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Ever ask a doctor or professor a hard question, and after they answer it they say "But that's a good question."?
> 
> That's what happened here.  Just because the question's already been answered doesn't mean the merit of the question is off limits.



What if you asked the doctor why he was in the doctors office?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> It's really grotesque when you think through the implications of that hope and prayer. Because it isn't only the worst of mankind they are wishing to see burn, it's any one that doesn't share their beliefs. It an utterly immoral system which doles out eternal rewards and punishments not based on character or actions but on belief.


With said belief _should_ come ethics of high standards, so, character and actions are very much part of the equation.






> Good question and a decidedly unsatisfying answer you'll get from them in response. That Austrian woman who was kept in a basement and repeatedly raped by her father for 24 years? It's not the fault of the all powerful deity who stood by watching with folded arms. It's the fault of the people who ate a forbidden fruit and all of their descendants. Same with the victims of the holocaust and same with anyone who is killed in a natural disaster.



With the women being raped, it the fault of the dad. The holocaust is the fault of Hitler and many other German leaders. IMO, there is no fault to be given with someone being killed in a natural disaster.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> For the most part the link is apologetic, meaning that they try to offer proofs of faith based on reason (is there such a thing?) but when one says that the proof for the Bible being true is the Bible then that's something else.



Can you give me proof for logic again?


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> If you could ask the 4 year old in question did he/she want to come back, your answer would be "no"



Wow


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## pbradley (Apr 26, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> the lady in one of the clips refers to god punishing all sinners by sending them to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----.
> 
> Something christians "hope and pray" is true.



I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here: are you stating that Christians hope and pray that people get sent to "the hot place?"

Messiah was sent to us in the form of a man. He lived as a man. He was brutally beaten, mistreated, crucified and died as a man - all to offer the world the opportunity to have their sins forgiven and to become sons of God in a relationship with God - salvation.

Jesus gave us the Great Commission in Matthew 28: 



> 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
> 
> 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:



Tens of thousands have been trained for the mission field and many many millions of dollars raised and spent to fulfill the Great Commission - teaching salvation through Jesus. People dedicate their entire lives to it. Many have been  murdered because of their unwavering dedication to it.

It is the "hope and prayer" of every Christian I know that every person be spared the torture of eternal ****ation.



> John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Wow



Wow is right.


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## 1john4:4 (Apr 26, 2011)

pbradley said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here: are you stating that Christians hope and pray that people get sent to "the hot place?"
> 
> Messiah was sent to us in the form of a man. He lived as a man. He was brutally beaten, mistreated, crucified and died as a man - all to offer the world the opportunity to have their sins forgiven and to become sons of God in a relationship with God - salvation.
> 
> ...



That's right!


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## vowell462 (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> If you could ask the 4 year old in question did he/she wanted to come back, your answer would be "no"



what draws you to this conclusion?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> what draws you to this conclusion?



IMO, I think the 4 yr old is in Heaven.


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Wow is right.



Would you say the same thing to her parents?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Would you say the same thing to her parents?



Probably not, thats not something parents want to here after loosing a child. However, if I knew they were genuine Christian believers, if would probably be comforting to them.


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Probably not, thats not something parents want to here after loosing a child.



It is also an ignorant thing to say to bad0351 who knew the little girl and saw her suffer. And you are again guessing unless you know them personally.


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## atlashunter (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> With said belief _should_ come ethics of high standards, so, character and actions are very much part of the equation.



What part do they play in salvation?






stringmusic said:


> With the women being raped, it the fault of the dad. The holocaust is the fault of Hitler and many other German leaders. IMO, there is no fault to be given with someone being killed in a natural disaster.



I agree. But any one with the power to intervene on behalf of the victims and doesn't, shares culpability as does someone who creates and turns loose a Hitler on the world with the foreknowledge of what they will do.


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## atlashunter (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> He sends them exactly where they want to go, apart from Him. Do you want to spend eternity with Jesus Christ? I would bet at least a dollar as to say no, you will be granted your want. What exactly is the problem?



Do you not believe in the hot place? Or do you not see any distinction between letting someone not associate with you and setting them on fire?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> It is also an ignorant thing to say to bad0351 who knew the little girl and saw her suffer. And you are again guessing unless you know them personally.



What am I guessing at?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> What part do they play in salvation?


If your refering to "works", I dont think they do, however, I think there should be a change in a person after their relationship with Jesus is started.








> I agree. But any one with the power to intervene on behalf of the victims and doesn't, shares culpability


I think God lets people make choices. What would you say to a fellow Atheist who sees nothing wrong with what the father did?



> as does someone who creates and turns loose a Hitler on the world with the foreknowledge of what they will do.


Life is not fair.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Do you not believe in the hot place?


I believe in He11, I dont think of it as a "hot place". As I have stated before, the physical pain will not compare from the complete seperation from the LORD.



> Or do you not see any distinction between letting someone not associate with you and setting them on fire?


Again, "setting them on fire" is not how I see it. People get set on fire on the earth, the situation in he11 will have no comparison. If someone doesnt want to associate with you, what do you do?


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## TheBishop (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Life is not fair.



Then neither is your god.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Then neither is your god.



How do you equate the two?


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> What am I guessing at?





> However, if I knew they were genuine Christian believers, if would probably be comforting to them.


If and Probably sound like guesses to me.


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## TheBishop (Apr 26, 2011)

If your god is all loving and all powerfull,  and life is not fair, he chooses it not to be.


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I think there should be a change in a person after their relationship with Jesus is started.



That relationship goes both ways.. some people buy into it and others like myself do not. In my case once the relationship started I did not want to be in it.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> If your god is all loving and all powerfull,  and life is not fair, he chooses it not to be.



So because He give us life He should control all aspects of it so life is fair?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> If and Probably sound like guesses to me.



Ok, so I'm guessing.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> That relationship goes both ways.. some people buy into it and others like myself do not. In my case once the relationship started I did not want to be in it.



Your "not buying into it" and the "relationship starting" do not equate.


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## JFS (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> So because He give us life He should control all aspects of it so life is fair?



Sure, let's say that.  The consequence of the fall was that people would in the future have to pay the price for their mistakes, but not the mistakes of others or random cosmic events.  Would it be in god's power to create such a world?


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

JFS said:


> Sure, let's say that.  The consequence of the fall was that people would in the future have to pay the price for their mistakes, but not the mistakes of others or random cosmic events.  Would it be in god's power to create such a world?



I'm not following, create a world where he controlled our actions or create one that we had to pay for other mistakes and random cosmic events. Whichever, I believe it to be in Gods power.


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Your "not buying into it" and the "relationship starting" do not equate.



Because someone does not think like you, believe like you or fall head over heel for Jesus like you then it just does not equate. I WAS all about it for 20 years and it just did not float my boat like it does for you. You think because you got that incredible feeling when your relationship with Jesus started that it works for everyone. Well you could not be more wrong. The try it you'll like it sales pitch doesn't work for everyone. I tried it and didn't like it.


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## stringmusic (Apr 26, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Because someone does not think like you, believe like you or fall head over heel for Jesus like you then it just does not equate. I WAS all about it for 20 years and it just did not float my boat like it does for you. You think because you got that incredible feeling when your relationship with Jesus started that it works for everyone. Well you could not be more wrong. The try it you'll like it sales pitch doesn't work for everyone. I tried it and didn't like it.



What did you not like about it?(the actual relationship, not all the people you might have been surrounded by)


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

What I was reading in the Bible, hearing in Church and wanting to believe did not feel right in my heart or mind.

The longer I tried the less I liked. The organized religion and many of it's followers only furthered to confirm my suspicions and distaste for it all.


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## JFS (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I'm not following, create a world where he controlled our actions or create one that we had to pay for other mistakes and random cosmic events. Whichever, I believe it to be in Gods power.




Not sure where you got that.  Not a trick, just what I said- that people would have to pay the price for their mistakes, but not the mistakes of others or random cosmic events.  Yest that's not what we have, is it.  If god could do that as you assert and hasn't, whose fault is it that these things cause unjust suffering?


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## bad0351 (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> If you could ask the 4 year old in question did he/she wanted to come back, your answer would be "no"



How you can say that with no knowlege of her situation at the end.....the pain and suffering, not only of the sweet thing but of her parents.....when a baby begs to stay with you and there is nothing you can do to help.....I am just dumbfounded by your reply.....


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## Six million dollar ham (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> What if you asked the doctor why he was in the doctors office?



Go right ahead.  I doubt he'd tell you that was a good question though.


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## bullethead (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I'm not following, create a world where he controlled our actions or create one that we had to pay for other mistakes and random cosmic events. Whichever, I believe it to be in Gods power.



Omnipotence and Omniscience...... How or why would he punish anybody for already knowing what they are going to do? Why punish mankind for Adam and Eve's choice when he knew what they were going to do before they did it?

The problem is that Omnipotence and Omniscience exclude each other. If God was Omniscient, then he would be able to know everything before it happened.  Can God actually change anything with his Omnipotence? Since God already knows what he is going to do, and that it has to happen, it appears as though God cannot actually change the events that take place. If God can change the events without knowing that the change was going to occur then his Omniscience would be limited.


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## atlashunter (Apr 26, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> If your refering to "works", I dont think they do, however, I think there should be a change in a person after their relationship with Jesus is started.



Thank you. That was the original point.




stringmusic said:


> I think God lets people make choices.



Do you also think he does so with full awareness of those choices both before and during the act and has the ability to intervene at any time?

The bible and Christians often liken God to a father. Would you as a father sit back and watch one of your children rape, murder, or otherwise harm one of your other children, fully aware of the act both before and during, fully capable of intervening at all times, but choosing not to because you wanted your children to have choices? Would you consider it moral of anyone to do this? Would you worship and revere such a person? Apparently you would.




stringmusic said:


> What would you say to a fellow Atheist who sees nothing wrong with what the father did?



I would question their concept of wrong or if they even had one.




stringmusic said:


> Life is not fair.



True. Not a reality compatible with an all knowing all powerful deity that is just. One of those has to give to be able to explain the reality.




stringmusic said:


> I believe in He11, I dont think of it as a "hot place". As I have stated before, the physical pain will not compare from the complete seperation from the LORD.



What physical pain are you referring to?

Is this a mistranslation?

Matthew 18
8Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

 9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into he11 fire. 




stringmusic said:


> Again, "setting them on fire" is not how I see it. People get set on fire on the earth, the situation in he11 will have no comparison. If someone doesnt want to associate with you, what do you do?



I go on with my life without doing them any harm. But that's just me. What do you do?


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## stringmusic (Apr 27, 2011)

bad0351 said:


> How you can say that with no knowlege of her situation at the end.....the pain and suffering, not only of the sweet thing but of her parents.....when a baby begs to stay with you and there is nothing you can do to help.....I am just dumbfounded by your reply.....



Didnt mean anyting rude with my post, you seem to think that if God is real, that He should bring your friends daughter back, my humble opinion of that is, that she is with God now, and would not want to come back to this earth.


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## stringmusic (Apr 27, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Go right ahead.  I doubt he'd tell you that was a good question though.



Exactly the point. Applejuice questioned an apologetic website in the A/A/Apologetic forum. Pretty much along the lines of asking a doctor why he is in the doctors office. You thought it was a good question, I didn't, we can leave it at that.


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## stringmusic (Apr 27, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Omnipotence and Omniscience...... How or why would he punish anybody for already knowing what they are going to do? Why punish mankind for Adam and Eve's choice when he knew what they were going to do before they did it?
> 
> The problem is that Omnipotence and Omniscience exclude each other. If God was Omniscient, then he would be able to know everything before it happened.  Can God actually change anything with his Omnipotence? Since God already knows what he is going to do, and that it has to happen, it appears as though God cannot actually change the events that take place. If God can change the events without knowing that the change was going to occur then his Omniscience would be limited.



I dont know the anwsers to your questions. Have you read any books on this subject?


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## TripleXBullies (Apr 27, 2011)

jmharris23 said:


> I knew you guys would have some fun with this...glad I could provide you with some new fodder.
> 
> As for it being in the wrong section...just once more...it's not in the wrong section.
> 
> Ya'll have fun



Seems like some excellent moderating.


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## bullethead (Apr 27, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I dont know the anwsers to your questions. Have you read any books on this subject?



No books specifically about those two subjects. Why?


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## stringmusic (Apr 27, 2011)

bullethead said:


> No books specifically about those two subjects. Why?



I read a little, very little, on the subject. If you wanted acceptable answers to your questions, Im sure there are alot of books devouted to God being Omniscient and people having free will.


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## bullethead (Apr 27, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I read a little, very little, on the subject. If you wanted acceptable answers to your questions, Im sure there are alot of books devouted to God being Omniscient and people having free will.



No doubt there are and there is a lot of info online too, but the problem is that usually it is canted hard to either side. Either it is from a pro or con point of view with a bias against the other. What I have found is that really only in religion is Omnipotence and Omniscience claimed. If they are to be then the actions of the beings should support the claims. I have not found that to be the case.


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## WTM45 (Apr 30, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> What am I guessing at?



Everything.

But that is not unique.  Islam, Judiasm, Buddhism, Hinduism and all other religious belief systems which have ever existed do the exact same thing.  Guess.  Speculate.  Imagine.  Dream.


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