# Daughter wants a Lab



## REDMOND1858 (Nov 29, 2014)

Looking for my daughter a lab puppy for Christmas and having trouble finding one...looked on craigslist and marketplace without any luck. She wants a chocolate or yellow one....do any of you know any good breeders in or around ga I could contact? Running out of time. Thanks


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## The Horned Toad (Nov 29, 2014)

AJC.com classifieds.  Stay away from anybody breeding dogs for a specific color.


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## bkl021475 (Nov 29, 2014)

PM sent


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## Scrapy (Nov 29, 2014)

right at 25 years ago, My daughter was 8. She had been my lab for two years.  she decided she wanted a lab. Like now. Six week before Christamass.  Lab pups for sale $600.  They would not be weaned for yet a week prior to Christmas so I paid the $600 .  I got the pup a week before so we kept it hid to be her surprise .  Christmas morning. Daughter tickled pink ,all is good. Next day the thing comes down with parvo. Got to the vet and daughter lived that night at the vets office nursing it .   It died. Was her worst Christmas ever. 

Bottom line , my oipinion only.   I coon hunt. Raised trained, gave away, and sold a few pups $200 out right too a dog man .  Best blood any money could buy plus my training on maw and paw so I knew those pups .    $600 for a black pup, while I got dogs that  brave the icy waters For miles or two in the marsh.. chasing coons . Then let me see if I have this thing straight in my own head,,, $600 for a Black lab puppy , no  named no account breed that the breeder did not even inoculate .??? !! a black CensoredCensoredCensored pup that when grown  might get fed all year in order to fetch 20 ducks all told a year, versus my coondogs that chase coons in the same icy marsh  and tree/fetch, whatever needs be, 10 coons a night.  

You say your daughter wants a lab.. ? LOL ... You want a lab? just be a man and say so... Other wise you might get one with a pink collar on its neck.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

The Horned Toad said:


> AJC.com classifieds.  Stay away from anybody breeding dogs for a specific color.



Yet you advocate buying dogs out of the paper??? Great advice...


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## jmtaylor189 (Nov 29, 2014)

Scrappy, you be quiet now. I got me a yellow lab and she wears a pink collar around her neck. That is only when we are in the house or on a walk around the neighborhood. Other than that she is collar free hunting with me.


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## 91xjgawes (Nov 29, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> Yet you advocate buying dogs out of the paper??? Great advice...



Since all dogs advertised in a paper are bred for color and not worth having

Probably not the most ideal place to find a retriever but geez man!


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

91xjgawes said:


> Since all dogs advertised in a paper are bred for color and not worth having
> 
> Probably not the most ideal place to find a retriever but geez man!



That wasn't my point. My point is that the advice is not to choose a breeder that only breeds for color...and then advocates the ajc as the place to search for a dog...because newspaper dogs are so stringently screened for health clearances and pedigrees. I love the ad 
"AKC lab pups for sale. Champion pedigrees! Ready to go Christmas! 1st shots and de wormed. Both parents on site. $400."
Yeah, let's go there and make a 15 year commitment to an animal. SMDH If your gonna buy your daughter a pup and your set on a color choose a reputable breeder, be it a private individual or business, check to ensure all relevant health screening has been done AND documented on BOTH sire and dame. And, make sure if you plan on hunting or trialing the dog there are some RECENT, RELEVANT performance titles in the dogs pedigree...and dont expect to get all of this for $400.


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## 3d foam killer (Nov 29, 2014)

This is just my .02 about three years ago I bough a lab puppy (only papers on dad) that was my first lab and I absouloutley love her. I don't have the money to send her off to be trained but she has come a long way! When she was six months old she broke one of her back legs near the hip joint and they amputated it. She is my three legged wonder and honestly has more determination and drive than any dog i have seen. She's not the fastest but she won come back until she finds the duck. The moral of my story is this if you are buying a dog to run trials find you a good breeder and pay the money for a lab bred to do that. If you are like me and wanted a pet and a hunting dog all in one find a good pet for your daughter and teach It to be a good duck dog. Any dog is a great dog if you love it from day 1. These guys who leave them locked up in a pen and wonder why there dog is buck wild puzzles me.


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## JKnieper (Nov 29, 2014)

Focus on finding a healthy one, and assuming she is school age, get one when school ends so she can spend more time with it.  If it's going to be an inside dog it's also a lot easier to house break when the weather is nice.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

3d foam killer said:


> This is just my .02 about three years ago I bough a lab puppy (only papers on dad) that was my first lab and I absouloutley love her. I don't have the money to send her off to be trained but she has come a long way! When she was six months old she broke one of her back legs near the hip joint and they amputated it. She is my three legged wonder and honestly has more determination and drive than any dog i have seen. She's not the fastest but she won come back until she finds the duck. The moral of my story is this if you are buying a dog to run trials find you a good breeder and pay the money for a lab bred to do that. If you are like me and wanted a pet and a hunting dog all in one find a good pet for your daughter and teach It to be a good duck dog. Any dog is a great dog if you love it from day 1. These guys who leave them locked up in a pen and wonder why there dog is buck wild puzzles me.
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. Not all of them are capable. MOST pets AREN'T capable.


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## Millcreekfarms (Nov 29, 2014)

Mountainveiw retrievers in Knoxville tn top notch hunting labs


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## Bama B (Nov 29, 2014)

labs are one the best breeds for a family pet. I would suggest checking some of the ga lab breeders. We used loganwood labs. We have had no health problems. You will normally pay alittle more. Most reputable breeders will give you refrences. I am assuming you are looking more for a pet than a hunting dog. Not to say that you cant have both. I will put my labs up against anyone elses as far as retreiving birds. Dont listen to all the negative comments.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

What negative comments?? I have yet to read any. I see advice, both good and bad but I don't see any negativity.


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## Bama B (Nov 29, 2014)

No named, no account breed seems kind of negative. Would you not agree. The man is looking for a pet for his daughter he never said anything about a hunting dog. Thats all.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

I'm sorry but I don't see where that was posted. Regardless of pet, hunting, trial or any or all of the above, he should check health clearances...and the newspaper and the marketplace are 2 of the absolute worst places to shop for a dog. That's not negative...it's fact.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

Ahhh there it is...no named no account breed...I honestly didn't even read his post...


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## Bama B (Nov 29, 2014)

I completely agree with the med records. Most reputable should provide these. Reads srappys thread again. There are some quality breeders in Ga.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 29, 2014)

Bama B said:


> I completely agree with the med records. Most reputable should provide these. Reads srappys thread again. There are some quality breeders in Ga.


I know. Depends on his budget and preferred sex of the puppy.


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## Scrapy (Nov 30, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> Ahhh there it is...no named no account breed...I honestly didn't even read his post...


 Well you ought to. Because the year I got married, which was ten years before my daughter was a glimmer in her daddy's eye, Twas the Holliday Season. Me and a cousin were riding and drinking some. and stopped by another Cousins House.   He managed a plantation and of course had him a duck finding dog. We were sitting by the pool . When he reached for to cooler the dang thing turned over and a beer can wen roling  cross the concrete and sunk to the bottom of the swimming pool. It was like the next to the last beer is what I thought . Anyway, he turned to his dog and said, "Doc, get that beer."  That pool was ten feet deep. That dog dove down and it back in the late 1970s.  

Then he said his CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored had puppies ready to wean and would we like one? NO NAME, No AccountBreed is what I said and I stand behind that ,  THAT IS NOT NEGATIVE> JUSTA FACT. I chose the prettyest and the biggest  one to give to my new bride for Christmas. She smiled  a bunch and held it between her breasts.

That night at bed time, we got frisky.  The pup started to whining and howling.  I heard  her get out of bed, open the back door of our trailer house. Some silence, then a thud> I could only guess the rest. 
She had picked up that pup by the knap of the neck and chunked it head over heels till it hit a Live Oak tree out in the back yard. 

Needles to say, that was the last partial night as an inside dog.


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## MudDucker (Nov 30, 2014)

The purchase price of a dog is the cheapest part of a dog.  Make sure you get a dog from a reputable breeder and that its parents have had their eyes and hips certified.  Hip problems are HUGE with labs.


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## BobSacamano (Nov 30, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> Well you ought to. Because the year I got married, which was ten years before my daughter was a glimmer in her daddy's eye, Twas the Holliday Season. Me and a cousin were riding and drinking some. and stopped by another Cousins House.   He managed a plantation and of course had him a duck finding dog. We were sitting by the pool . When he reached for to cooler the dang thing turned over and a beer can wen roling  cross the concrete and sunk to the bottom of the swimming pool. It was like the next to the last beer is what I thought . Anyway, he turned to his dog and said, "Doc, get that beer."  That pool was ten feet deep. That dog dove down and it back in the late 1970s.
> 
> Then he said his CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored had puppies ready to wean and would we like one? NO NAME, No AccountBreed is what I said and I stand behind that ,  THAT IS NOT NEGATIVE> JUSTA FACT. I chose the prettyest and the biggest  one to give to my new bride for Christmas. She smiled  a bunch and held it between her breasts.
> 
> ...


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## backwater labs (Nov 30, 2014)

Add in the Swap and Sell for a year old chocolate.  AKC reg.


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## mizzippi jb (Nov 30, 2014)

backwater labs said:


> Add in the Swap and Sell for a year old chocolate.  AKC reg.



The one that was free without papers or $50 with akc papers?  Lol.  Something stunk a bit on that ad......


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## Hooked On Quack (Nov 30, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> That wasn't my point. My point is that the advice is not to choose a breeder that only breeds for color...and then advocates the ajc as the place to search for a dog...because newspaper dogs are so stringently screened for health clearances and pedigrees. I love the ad
> "AKC lab pups for sale. Champion pedigrees! Ready to go Christmas! 1st shots and de wormed. Both parents on site. $400."
> Yeah, let's go there and make a 15 year commitment to an animal. SMDH If your gonna buy your daughter a pup and your set on a color choose a reputable breeder, be it a private individual or business, check to ensure all relevant health screening has been done AND documented on BOTH sire and dame. And, make sure if you plan on hunting or trialing the dog there are some RECENT, RELEVANT performance titles in the dogs pedigree...and dont expect to get all of this for $400.





Yep, been there done that. 



Scrapy said:


> Well you ought to. Because the year I got married, which was ten years before my daughter was a glimmer in her daddy's eye, Twas the Holliday Season. Me and a cousin were riding and drinking some. and stopped by another Cousins House.   He managed a plantation and of course had him a duck finding dog. We were sitting by the pool . When he reached for to cooler the dang thing turned over and a beer can wen roling  cross the concrete and sunk to the bottom of the swimming pool. It was like the next to the last beer is what I thought . Anyway, he turned to his dog and said, "Doc, get that beer."  That pool was ten feet deep. That dog dove down and it back in the late 1970s.
> 
> Then he said his CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored had puppies ready to wean and would we like one? NO NAME, No AccountBreed is what I said and I stand behind that ,  THAT IS NOT NEGATIVE> JUSTA FACT. I chose the prettyest and the biggest  one to give to my new bride for Christmas. She smiled  a bunch and held it between her breasts.
> 
> ...





I'm STILL loling all ova the place !!!


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## backwater labs (Nov 30, 2014)

Hooked On Quack said:


> Yep, been there done that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





mizzippi jb said:


> The one that was free without papers or $50 with akc papers?  Lol.  Something stunk a bit on that ad......


Don't know unless you ask.


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## bigdawg (Nov 30, 2014)

Talk your local vet. They always have a good network of people who know breeders and know who raises healthy pups. Good luck I will ask my vet and let u know.


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## mguthrie (Nov 30, 2014)

I used to breed my labs and all of my pups where checked out by vet and given 1st round of shots and was all documented for the new owners. I advertised where ever I could and I had to give away a couple dogs from one litter. Mother was black and father is yellow. She threw all three colors in her litters. Both had great pedigrees. If you decide to bye from an individual make sure of health and ask for references from previous buyers. We still keep in tough with some of our owners


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## BobSacamano (Nov 30, 2014)

mguthrie said:


> I used to breed my labs and all of my pups where checked out by vet and given 1st round of shots and was all documented for the new owners. I advertised where ever I could and I had to give away a couple dogs from one litter. Mother was black and father is yellow. She threw all three colors in her litters. Both had great pedigrees. If you decide to bye from an individual make sure of health and ask for references from previous buyers. We still keep in tough with some of our owners



I think what Joe is talking about with Health clearances are different than what you are talking about. (I think anyway). 
We're not talking about taking the puppy to vet and making sure they are healthy. Its more about having both parents tested for possible genetic problems. Having their hips and elbows xrayed and evaluated by the OFFA. Having eyes tested by an ophthalmologist. Cardiac tests. EIC and CNM tests. There are others, but those are the biggies people are looking for.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Nov 30, 2014)

Finding the right lab with a good pedigree and appropriate health clearences on both sides usually takes several months of searching and a budget of $800-$1500. Like others have said that is actually less expensive in the long run when you pay up front. The fact that you are on a Christmas time crunch has your hands tied. Remember, this is a 15 year commitment. I know there are some on here who can give you examples of these great duck dogs they got for $100. Someone wins the lottery everyday but most people lose and the losing stories aren't shared as often as the winning. It's a sad day watching a 9 year old lab suffering, unable to even stand up on its own because of bad hips. My advice, be patient, forget about your Christmas deadline and find the right pup when it becomes available. This usually involves putting down a deposit when the female is pregnant.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 30, 2014)

BobSacamano said:


> I think what Joe is talking about with Health clearances are different than what you are talking about. (I think anyway).
> We're not talking about taking the puppy to vet and making sure they are healthy. Its more about having both parents tested for possible genetic problems. Having their hips and elbows xrayed and evaluated by the OFFA. Having eyes tested by an ophthalmologist. Cardiac tests. EIC and CNM tests. There are others, but those are the biggies people are looking for.



Exactly


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## Joe Overby (Nov 30, 2014)

WhiteStoneGuy said:


> Finding the right lab with a good pedigree and appropriate health clearences on both sides usually takes several months of searching and a budget of $800-$1500. Like others have said that is actually less expensive in the long run when you pay up front. The fact that you are on a Christmas time crunch has your hands tied. Remember, this is a 15 year commitment. I know there are some on here who can give you examples of these great duck dogs they got for $100. Someone wins the lottery everyday but most people lose and the losing stories aren't shared as often as the winning. It's a sad day watching a 9 year old lab suffering, unable to even stand up on its own because of bad hips. My advice, be patient, forget about your Christmas deadline and find the right pup when it becomes available. This usually involves putting down a deposit when the female is pregnant.



Where's the "like" button??


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## Joe Overby (Nov 30, 2014)

Regardless of purpose, proper recorded health certifications on BOTH parents are a must. 
OFA hips
OFA elbows
Eye cerf
EIC
CNM 
And then you can also have cardiac, patella, pra, and osd/rd. Those certs cost money and as such are reflected in the price of the puppy. Again, if you plan on hunting/testing/trialing the dog then recent, relevant performance titles on BOTH parents are more than just a good idea...IMO, and it's just that BUT, a JH or SHR for titles simply don't cut it. As far as asking your vet about breeders, that's not a bad idea but your local retriever club might be an even better resource. Often times, those that seriously compete their dogs are more "in the know" concerning availability of healthy litters for a miriad of purposes than anyone else. I cannot stress enough to stay away from backyard breeders, puppy mills, and CKC (continental kennel club) registrations. The up front cost will far outweigh the probability for a lifetime of health issues.


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## 91xjgawes (Nov 30, 2014)

Yall get all bent outa shape about all of these health test.... they are fine and dandy but years ago they didn't have em and those dogs hunted just as hard as today's dogs that do have em.  I just bought a dog a few weeks ago out of Mississippi.  The parents had the test for hips and eyes...did I make sure they did? Yes! I think there is one thing many have a hard time grasping.. everyone's budget is different. Sure we want dogs to be bred for the right reasons but regardless of what we want people are breeding them in their backyard on the daily. These dogs need homes as well and someone on a tighter budget can purchase one for a fraction of the price of a well bred heath certified dog. Is it my choice? No. Everyone can't afford to buy a 1500.00 dog. At the end of the day it's a dog. It's comical almost that some of you guys think it takes the most well bred dog to make a decent gun dog. Everyone does  not have to have a dog that does well in hunt test. Some just want a good ol' fashioned buddy, a hunting partner, a family member... if they turn out to be a decent retriever... great!


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## 91xjgawes (Nov 30, 2014)

And just to throw it out there, the OP never mentioned wanting a dog for any other reason than to be a companion...


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## Joe Overby (Dec 1, 2014)

91xjgawes said:


> And just to throw it out there, the OP never mentioned wanting a dog for any other reason than to be a companion...



Neither did anybody else...but just so we're clear...it's not comical to recommend to someone to buy the healthiest puppy they can when they're the ones that have to endure the 15 years of possible vet bills. To do that, you make sure momma and daddy have health certs. That's not overboard. That's making an educated purchase. Sure, dogs are bred under people's porches daily...that doesn't make them bad or "lesser" dogs. But to suggest that someone on a "budget" need not worry about all that mess is ridiculous. The op asked about breeders. Some of us tried to point the op in the right direction...others have well............................
Bottom line is health certs cost money. That cost is reflected in the purchase price of the puppy. Breeders that are taking the time and spending the money to ensure they are producing the healthiest puppy they can should be rewarded for their efforts...not those who just stick 2 dogs together cause they "think" the puppies will be the the next duckswamp nfc.


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## king killer delete (Dec 1, 2014)

91xjgawes said:


> Yall get all bent outa shape about all of these health test.... they are fine and dandy but years ago they didn't have em and those dogs hunted just as hard as today's dogs that do have em.  I just bought a dog a few weeks ago out of Mississippi.  The parents had the test for hips and eyes...did I make sure they did? Yes! I think there is one thing many have a hard time grasping.. everyone's budget is different. Sure we want dogs to be bred for the right reasons but regardless of what we want people are breeding them in their backyard on the daily. These dogs need homes as well and someone on a tighter budget can purchase one for a fraction of the price of a well bred heath certified dog. Is it my choice? No. Everyone can't afford to buy a 1500.00 dog. At the end of the day it's a dog. It's comical almost that some of you guys think it takes the most well bred dog to make a decent gun dog. Everyone does  not have to have a dog that does well in hunt test. Some just want a good ol' fashioned buddy, a hunting partner, a family member... if they turn out to be a decent retriever... great!



I was having my dogs OFA certified in 1980. Health certs came along because of genetic problems. Eye certs came along later. I have seen young dogs with a ton of drive broke down in the hips at a very young age. You would not buy a used truck that had been wrecked or a shotgun that would not shoot. Why not stack the odds in your favor with a healthy dog. Now I am all for adoption of poor old dogs in the pound that are on death row. If you want a pet go adopt. If you want a performance dog then buy a dog from great lines with health certs. good luck!


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## bander_TC50 (Dec 1, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> Neither did anybody else...but just so we're clear...it's not comical to recommend to someone to buy the healthiest puppy they can when they're the ones that have to endure the 15 years of possible vet bills. To do that, you make sure momma and daddy have health certs. That's not overboard. That's making an educated purchase. Sure, dogs are bred under people's porches daily...that doesn't make them bad or "lesser" dogs. But to suggest that someone on a "budget" need not worry about all that mess is ridiculous. The op asked about breeders. Some of us tried to point the op in the right direction...others have well............................
> Bottom line is health certs cost money. That cost is reflected in the purchase price of the puppy. Breeders that are taking the time and spending the money to ensure they are producing the healthiest puppy they can should be rewarded for their efforts...not those who just stick 2 dogs together cause they "think" the puppies will be the the next duckswamp nfc.



this times infinity,

 i have a "free lab" that needed a good home i took her on and got her fixed. my intention was for her to be a friend to my hunting buddy. Now i have WAY WAY more money in her than i do my hunting dog better than five grand in vet bills (blew out both back knees)

 now she has a gimpy front leg. my wife loves her to death. she's the sweetest dog you could ever ask for. so now im stuck in what appears to be another 7 years of crushing vet bills cause now she is a member of the family.....

 by the time its all said and done i could reserve a dog from joe, have her trained and titled with no intention of her being anything but a pet and not spend as much as i have on this dog that i got for "free". ill never do that again.

save your money and buy a good dog. even if you intend for her to just be a pet. buy from a reputable breeder and spend the money once not every two or three years.


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## BobSacamano (Dec 1, 2014)

Thats the best post in the thread.


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## 91xjgawes (Dec 1, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> Neither did anybody else...but just so we're clear...it's not comical to recommend to someone to buy the healthiest puppy they can when they're the ones that have to endure the 15 years of possible vet bills. To do that, you make sure momma and daddy have health certs. That's not overboard. That's making an educated purchase. Sure, dogs are bred under people's porches daily...that doesn't make them bad or "lesser" dogs. But to suggest that someone on a "budget" need not worry about all that mess is ridiculous. The op asked about breeders. Some of us tried to point the op in the right direction...others have well............................
> Bottom line is health certs cost money. That cost is reflected in the purchase price of the puppy. Breeders that are taking the time and spending the money to ensure they are producing the healthiest puppy they can should be rewarded for their efforts...not those who just stick 2 dogs together cause they "think" the puppies will be the the next duckswamp nfc.




Alls I'm saying there bud is if someone had a 200 dollar budget and they want a lab pup, they should get one. Even if they dog ends up having health issues and has to be put down, they had a better life than no one buying them and getting dumped out somewhere as many do. Is it a smart decision? No I don't think so. Will it be terrible for the children if and when the dog becomes unhealthy? Probably. Do I agree with these breeding practices? No! A cheap dog in a household I'd better than a cheap dog in the street. With that, I would indeed save my money and make an educated purchase. But if you have to have one enjoy it! Just know what you are getting yourself into..


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## Joe Overby (Dec 1, 2014)

91xjgawes said:


> Alls I'm saying there bud is if someone had a 200 dollar budget and they want a lab pup, they should get one. Even if they dog ends up having health issues and has to be put down, they had a better life than no one buying them and getting dumped out somewhere as many do. Is it a smart decision? No I don't think so. Will it be terrible for the children if and when the dog becomes unhealthy? Probably. Do I agree with these breeding practices? No! A cheap dog in a household I'd better than a cheap dog in the street. With that, I would indeed save my money and make an educated purchase. But if you have to have one enjoy it! Just know what you are getting yourself into..


That makes absolutely zero sense. If you want a pet, go to the pound....don't perpetuate the cycle of irresponsible breeding by supporting those with irresponsible breeding practices. And no, I'm not being holier than thou...I don't claim to know any more than another, and I'm not a dog snob. I believe you get what you pay for. Stop trying to rationalize the idea that it's ok to breed dogs without proper health clearances....bud.


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## 91xjgawes (Dec 1, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> That makes absolutely zero sense. If you want a pet, go to the pound....don't perpetuate the cycle of irresponsible breeding by supporting those with irresponsible breeding practices. And no, I'm not being holier than thou...I don't claim to know any more than another, and I'm not a dog snob. I believe you get what you pay for. Stop trying to rationalize the idea that it's ok to breed dogs without proper health clearances....bud.



It is what it is... you get the point although you may fail to acknowledge it.


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## Gaducker (Dec 1, 2014)

Joe Overby said:


> That makes absolutely zero sense. If you want a pet, go to the pound....don't perpetuate the cycle of irresponsible breeding by supporting those with irresponsible breeding practices. And no, I'm not being holier than thou...I don't claim to know any more than another, and I'm not a dog snob. I believe you get what you pay for. Stop trying to rationalize the idea that it's ok to breed dogs without proper health clearances....bud.




I agree, I rarely read and entire thread but I have this one. Go to the pound and pick you out a lab look alike and yall will be good to go. You may even be able to train him up a little.


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## Joe Overby (Dec 1, 2014)

91xjgawes said:


> It is what it is... you get the point although you may fail to acknowledge it.



You make no point!!?? You make an argument that folks should buy the dogs without health certs in one sentence and then turn right around and acknowledge that it's a bad idea. The point is that it's bad advice to give someone that it's ok to buy dogs out of parents without proper, documented health testing. How are we overboard by being adamant that the most important part of purchasing a puppy is to get a healthy one??? I've been doing this a long time. I help find people puppies every day. I refuse to support those that breed irresponsibly. Be it family pet, hunting buddy, or trial dog the 1st thing researched is health. You don't have to agree...yet you bought a dog with hip and eye certs...wouldn't have bought him without them...but it's ok for the op to...your point is about as clear as mud.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Dec 2, 2014)

Basic economics....supply and demand. If there is a  demand at certain price points, producers will continue to meet the demand at that price point. We should not encourage or create a demand that diminishes quality especially in this case where the diminished quality produces unhealthy pups and further compromises the breed. All these health certifications have improved the breed tremendously over the years. This needs to continue and people need to be willing to pay for this for the sake of the breed and each individual pup. I realize people have budgets, it is a fact of life and understandable. However, we shouldn't encourage a person on a limited budget to purchase a poorly bred pup because we understand they don't have the money for a health certified pup. We should encourage them to save until they can get a healthy pup, or if they can't afford to save, adopt. In no way should you condone purchasing a poorly bred pup. You argue the breeders will get rid of the pup some other way if no one buys it. Maybe, but they won't continue to breed them in the future if there is no market or demand for them. By encouraging the purchase of a poorly bred pup to save it you are encouraging the production of more poorly bred pups in the future. This is the main point Joe and the other guys are making. Is it a sin to be poor, jobless, and struggling? No way! Would you encourage a person who is poor, jobless, and struggling to have a child because they have always wanted one and would love it unconditionally? No. If there was no welfare or government assistance, the child will likely be born with a low birthweight and grow up malnurished and emaciated. Guess what? There is no welfare or government assistance for pups. We don't know the financial situation of the OP. He might be able to easily pay for a health certified pup, but didn't know why he should when there are $200 pups on the market. Or the OP may be on a tight budget. Either way, we should give the correct advice for both situations. Directing to AJC classifieds and implying that health certifications aren't a big deal especially if you are on a budget is the WRONG advice.


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## mattuga (Dec 2, 2014)

WhiteStoneGuy said:


> Basic economics....supply and demand. If there is a  demand at certain price points, producers will continue to meet the demand at that price point. We should not encourage or create a demand that diminishes quality especially in this case where the diminished quality produces unhealthy pups and further compromises the breed. All these health certifications have improved the breed tremendously over the years. This needs to continue and people need to be willing to pay for this for the sake of the breed and each individual pup. I realize people have budgets, it is a fact of life and understandable. However, we shouldn't encourage a person on a limited budget to purchase a poorly bred pup because we understand they don't have the money for a health certified pup. We should encourage them to save until they can get a healthy pup, or if they can't afford to save, adopt. In no way should you condone purchasing a poorly bred pup. You argue the breeders will get rid of the pup some other way if no one buys it. Maybe, but they won't continue to breed them in the future if there is no market or demand for them. By encouraging the purchase of a poorly bred pup to save it you are encouraging the production of more poorly bred pups in the future. This is the main point Joe and the other guys are making. Is it a sin to be poor, jobless, and struggling? No way! Would you encourage a person who is poor, jobless, and struggling to have a child because they have always wanted one and would love it unconditionally? No. If there was no welfare or government assistance, the child will likely be born with a low birthweight and grow up malnurished and emaciated. Guess what? There is no welfare or government assistance for pups. We don't know the financial situation of the OP. He might be able to easily pay for a health certified pup, but didn't know why he should when there are $200 pups on the market. Or the OP may be on a tight budget. Either way, we should give the correct advice for both situations. Directing to AJC classifieds and implying that health certifications aren't a big deal especially if you are on a budget is the WRONG advice.



Dead on right here, I bought the cheap route 7 years ago.


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## mattuga (Dec 2, 2014)

*Marley and me - got her for $200!*

I hit well above my sales quota 8 months out of college and went cash in hand to Royston to see a litter of labs from a backyard breeder.  This was 2007 and his pups were $250 but he offered the runt for $200, I wanted a smaller lab and got her.  She pee-pooped twice in my car on the way home.  A couple days later still hadn't taken a solid poop and had rice stuff on her butt.  I lived in fancy ole Brookhaven and took her to the vet to find out she had 2 worms and a parasite.  Hook worms nearly killed her and $1,300 later I had a pup still alive.  I was $1,500 in at this point and she was 8 weeks old - but hey she was AKC registered!  All in all I would go back in time and buy her again because she is amazing and I simply could not see myself with another dog but I really hope her hips and general health hold up.  Knowing what I know now I would take an entirely different approach and listen to the guys on here really focusing on health certifications.  A very very high percentage of labs can be awesome from birth, just get a healthy one.  I had to add pics to brag on her, who wouldn't pay $200 for this pups face!  Me is the new answer on my next pup


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## Scrapy (Dec 2, 2014)

mattuga said:


> I hit well above my sales quota 8 months out of college and went cash in hand to Royston to see a litter of labs from a backyard breeder.  This was 2007 and his pups were $250 but he offered the runt for $200, I wanted a smaller lab and got her.  She pee-pooped twice in my car on the way home.  A couple days later still hadn't taken a solid poop and had rice stuff on her butt.  I lived in fancy ole Brookhaven and took her to the vet to find out she had 2 worms and a parasite.  Hook worms nearly killed her and $1,300 later I had a pup still alive.  I was $1,500 in at this point and she was 8 weeks old - but hey she was AKC registered!  All in all I would go back in time and buy her again because she is amazing and I simply could not see myself with another dog but I really hope her hips and general health hold up.  Knowing what I know now I would take an entirely different approach and listen to the guys on here really focusing on health certifications.  A very very high percentage of labs can be awesome from birth, just get a healthy one.  I had to add pics to brag on her, who wouldn't pay $200 for this pups face!  Me is the new answer on my next pup



Sounds like the Vet is the one that took you for a ride.  Certs can guarantee many things. Specially on the current status of an individual.  However, all the Certs in the world won't pre cure genetic deficiencies in the next generation. If you got or train a terrific lab, certainly some day you will want a pup off of it.  Labs are famous for physical genetic deficiencies.  Good breeders know these deficiencies , how to spot them early on and Cull Heavy. And never make that cross (or use the same stud or female again, whatever the case may be) Same as most other sporting breeds.


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## puddlehunter (Dec 2, 2014)

Some breeds you can luck out with the $200 backyard litter, I wouldn't gamble on the Labrador Retriever.  There are tons of unhealthy, bad hips etc labs among these litters.  Even if you just want a pet, do your daughter and yourself a favor, allow yourself an 800-1500 budget, do a little research on breeders, contact the breeder and tell them what you are looking for in temperament size, drive etc. and let them help you pick out a pup.  You will appreciate it much more, and so will your daughter.  She is 8 years old, this dog will grow up with her during her most important years, you want a solid companion.   

If you are experienced in selecting puppies you might get by with a backyard litter, or it might be the worst gift you have ever given.

There is some good advice here especially for the Lab.


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## mattuga (Dec 2, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> Sounds like the Vet is the one that took you for a ride.  Certs can guarantee many things. Specially on the current status of an individual.  However, all the Certs in the world won't pre cure genetic deficiencies in the next generation. If you got or train a terrific lab, certainly some day you will want a pup off of it.  Labs are famous for physical genetic deficiencies.  Good breeders know these deficiencies , how to spot them early on and Cull Heavy. And never make that cross (or use the same stud or female again, whatever the case may be) Same as most other sporting breeds.



Yes he did, even though it was multiple trips I paid almost double what it should be. I took the dog to a Buckhead vet and didn't know any better on pricing.  I was young and dumb.


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## Scrapy (Dec 2, 2014)

Almost double and multiple trips? my vet would charge an office visit and sent me home with enough worm medicine to dose again in ten days or whatever.  Over one Bill would surprise me. Your dog is getting cheaper to operate all de time enna?


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## chocolate dog (Dec 3, 2014)

mattuga said:


> I hit well above my sales quota 8 months out of college and went cash in hand to Royston to see a litter of labs from a backyard breeder.  This was 2007 and his pups were $250 but he offered the runt for $200, I wanted a smaller lab and got her.  She pee-pooped twice in my car on the way home.  A couple days later still hadn't taken a solid poop and had rice stuff on her butt.  I lived in fancy ole Brookhaven and took her to the vet to find out she had 2 worms and a parasite.  Hook worms nearly killed her and $1,300 later I had a pup still alive.  I was $1,500 in at this point and she was 8 weeks old - but hey she was AKC registered!  All in all I would go back in time and buy her again because she is amazing and I simply could not see myself with another dog but I really hope her hips and general health hold up.  Knowing what I know now I would take an entirely different approach and listen to the guys on here really focusing on health certifications.  A very very high percentage of labs can be awesome from birth, just get a healthy one.  I had to add pics to brag on her, who wouldn't pay $200 for this pups face!  Me is the new answer on my next pup



Thats a pretty chocolate girl you have there    I have a similar story on a 100.00 dog as seen in my avatar except so far so good and she is very healthy at 3 years old.  

My "mutt" came from strictly pets.  Born in a fenced in backyard.   She had a great trainer and sailed through SHR and could have been definitely been a 100% non slip HR titled retriever with about 6 more months of training Im certain.  Her biggest problem is her owner, me myself and I. 

We dont duck hunt but she is a great dove dog and wonderful pet and companion.    I really couldnt ask for more.  Hopefully I got lucky with her and  I too just hope her hips and eyes hold up and that is all I can really hope for.   

I said all that to say this though.   Knowing also what I know now, my next dog WILL be from a reputable breeder and it WILL come with health certs.  I was a dumb dumb the first go around but I have seen the light and could not agree any more than I do now with all the advice given about buying a Lab puppy.    If I was the OP, I would listen to Joe Overby and others here that have experience in this type of thing and have seen firsthand what heartaches buying unhealthy, poorly bred puppies can bring their owners.


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## king killer delete (Dec 3, 2014)

chocolate dog said:


> Thats a pretty chocolate girl you have there    I have a similar story on a 100.00 dog as seen in my avatar except so far so good and she is very healthy at 3 years old.
> 
> My "mutt" came from strictly pets.  Born in a fenced in backyard.   She had a wonderful trainer and sailed through SHR and could have been definitely been a 100% non slip HR titled retriever with about 6 more months of training Im 100% certain.  Her biggest problem is her owner, me myself and I.
> 
> ...



You have a great looking brown dog


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## BobSacamano (Dec 3, 2014)

She's mean though Killer Elite.


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## king killer delete (Dec 4, 2014)

BobSacamano said:


> She's mean though Killer Elite.



 She still is a pretty dog.


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## BobSacamano (Dec 4, 2014)

real pretty, till she's gnawing your hand off....


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## king killer delete (Dec 4, 2014)

BobSacamano said:


> real pretty, till she's gnawing your hand off....



Bite her back


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## mizzippi jb (Dec 4, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Bite her back



Chain reaction.  Brown dog would, in turn, bite Bob.


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## BobSacamano (Dec 4, 2014)

killer elite said:


> Bite her back



i did.

but all kidding aside. She was a nice dog to train. Very willing and a hard worker.


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## BobSacamano (Dec 4, 2014)

mizzippi jb said:


> Chain reaction.  Brown dog would, in turn, bite Bob.



he did try to kick me once.


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