# Fall Food (for thought) Plot Thread2



## Canuck5

Well, I stole some information from another website ....... but I think it's good information.  Shows the acceptable ph things will grow at, as well as minimum soil temperatures needed for germination.


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## Canuck5

This chart gives us seeding depths and seeding rates ...... remember these numbers are for establishing a crop (or cover crop), by themselves, not necessarily in a mix.


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## Canuck5

Advantages of some crops .....


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## Canuck5

Disadvantages of some crops


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## Canuck5

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=763383  just linking back to the first thread


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## Gadestroyer74

Love these threads


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## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> Love these threads



Thanks!  Just trying to put together things that make sense for "us" and make life a little easier ...... and (for all of us) learn a thing or 2 along the way.


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## Canuck5

When you have small plots, that only add up to a small % of the overall property, I want to try to maximize how many lbs/acre of plant life I can successfully grow.  For fall, the basics are wheat and crimson clover, but I always add Arrowleaf, which helps extend the "feeding season" out till I work it all up in April and plant my cowpeas & soybeans.

Oats are good too, however, I didn't plant any last year and I think they would've frozen out in my area with all the extended cold temps we had.  Wheat wasn't fazed by it.


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## Canuck5

And maximizing crude protein helps with antlers and fawn development.  Remember we grow deer from the dirt we have.


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## GeorgeShu

Wonderful stuff dat!
Thanks for sharing this info. It might be nice to get this stuff in a sticky note.  Any chance we can sweet talk the mod into doing that?


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## Canuck5

Thanks George!!


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## Gadestroyer74

Agree with that George. If we could get our club leaders to realize the value of tilling under the crimson oats and wheat etc in April for added green manure to the soil and plant the cow peas and soybeans in the summer we would be doing great. They always come back with . We been doing it this way for 20 years it works just fine . They let there plots grow up to waist high don't lime. Just go in a Bushhog it to darn near dirt leave the grass clumps run a plow over it and throw some seed out and lightly disk it in a call it done. They have no idea how much better they would be doing but doing like y'all do and I and others there know to do. Just want listen so it's either the few of us do it our way and let them do there own thing.


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## Triple C

*Thanks for "Round 2" of Fall Food for Thought*

Great stuff Canuck!  Been looking forward to the second version of this thread firing up again.  Found myself checking out last year's thread 1st thing every morning and know I will do the same with version II of this thread.  Love all the input from the guys that contribute and appreciate you getting it started again!


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## SakoL61R

Excellent information, Canuck.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm looking forward to this year's thread!


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## fellybbob

^^^^^^ 
this  Thank you


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## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Great stuff Canuck!  Been looking forward to the second version of this thread firing up again.  Found myself checking out last year's thread 1st thing every morning and know I will do the same with version II of this thread.  Love all the input from the guys that contribute and appreciate you getting it started again!



Input is always great!!!  We need lots of it!


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## Canuck5

Thanks guys!


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## Crakajak

Great info Canuck5.Guess it doesn't hurt that you a farm boy.


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## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> Great info Canuck5.Guess it doesn't hurt that you a farm boy.



LOL ... that was a long time ago ...I've learned how to copy and paste, well ...... some things did stick with me, following my Dad, in a field, holding a hoe .....


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## Canuck5

What inoculant to use .....


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## Canuck5

How come you can use less pounds/acre of white clover than crimson clover? ....... white has more seeds/lb.


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## fellybbob

is there a map showing diferent types of soils (clay, sandy etc) for the state of Georgia ( state wide or county wide ).

uga most have some type of map somewhere 

is that somewhere mention on a soil test.


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## Crakajak

fellybbob said:


> is there a map showing diferent types of soils (clay, sandy etc) for the state of Georgia ( state wide or county wide ).
> 
> uga most have some type of map somewhere
> 
> is that somewhere mention on a soil test.



You might check with the tax office in your county. With the Soil conservation program in the rural counties they might have one or can head you in the right direction.(Except Talbot Co. They don't have a map. UGA extension service might have one also.


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## Triple C

With this being the slowest time of year for any habitat work or planting I thought I would post pics of a couple of bomb-proof gravity feeders we've been using since 2011.  The 55 gallon drum is made by Texas Hunter products.  Has a galvanized loose fitting top that is easy-on easy-off.  A plastic insert in the bottom of the drum has 3 ports that allow the feed to come down into the troughs. Legs are heavy gauge steel that pigs can't destroy.  We have 2 of these and they work really well.  Bucks seem to like them as well...


The is the Double D feeder.  They are made in S. GA and usually have an ad in GON each month.  Made of galvanized steel with a hinge top that is easy to fill.


We use the custom mix protein feed from Oglethorpe Feed and Seed located between Crawford and Lexington.  Has enough corn in it to keep the deer coming back.


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## Triple C

Pic of buck using feeder


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## elfiii

Top shelf stuff as always Canuck. This one gets to be a Sticky.


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## fellybbob

nice


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## Triple C

*Couldn't find my favorite thread...*

Canuck...Logged on this morning to see any updates to this thread and couldn't find it!  Finally saw it in the "Sticky" section.  Well deserved!!!  Looking forward to the fall planting season and following everyone's progress.


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## Canuck5

I'm honored!!!  Thank you!


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## fellybbob

they gonna start calling you the GON Guru of food plots. 
thank you


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## Canuck5

Well, there are lots of smart people on here, who can really add to this thread and help out everyone ... but thanks!


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## Canuck5

Ive got my list of things I plan to buy this year ..... wheat, oats, crimson clover, arrowleaf clover, daikon radish', chicory and maybe give Austrian Winter Peas another try, along with fertilizer.

So, once I get pricing from a couple of sources, I'll add them here.  If you get prices from your local source, please add them as well.


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## Canuck5

*Reading a soil test*


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## Canuck5

*How to read a soil test*

Just some more info on soil testing


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## Canuck5

So, having properly limed soils (cheap man's fertilizer), allows your plants to pull nutrients out of the soil.  You want your deer to get the most out of what they eat, so optimizing your soil is the way to do it ... besides, an acidic soil wastes a lot of your fertilizer dollars.


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## Triple C

Woody's Campfire Fall Semester
Course:  Food Plotting 101
Professor:  Cancuck5

Canuck...The last post should be required reading for anyone new to food plotting!  Figure 4 showing the percentage of nutrients not available in very acidic soils says it all.  Thanks for taking the time to post this info.  Anytime I see a post from a fellow hunter asking about "putting in a food plot", I will refer to this thread - post 35.


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## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C!  It's easy to see what is better ..... spending $100 on fertilizer or spending $100 on lime!


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## Canuck5

Top 10 Liming Questions


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## Canuck5

More liming questions


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## Canuck5

And one last set


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## Canuck5

I'll throw this out there as an easy tool to use, once you've done your soil test and you get the recommendation back that you need (as an example) 87 lbs of N , 54 lbs of phosphorous and 77 lbs of potassium/acre ... and I know that I have 0-20-20, 13-13-13, 19-19-19 available (bagged) from your local feed & seed ..... it will tell me that I can use:

592.3 pounds of 13-13-13
per 1 acre.

or

405.3 pounds of 19-19-19
per 1 acre.

And although not exactly what I need, it will get me 92% of what I need.   I don't worry about being too exact, though ... just use as a reference

http://aesl.ces.uga.edu/soil/fertcalc/


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## Canuck5

Canuck5 said:


> I'll throw this out there as an easy tool to use, once you've done your soil test and you get the recommendation back that you need (as an example) 87 lbs of N , 54 lbs of phosphorous and 77 lbs of potassium/acre ... and I know that I have 0-20-20, 13-13-13, 19-19-19 available (bagged) from your local feed & seed ..... it will tell me that I can use:
> 
> 592.3 pounds of 13-13-13
> per 1 acre.
> 
> or
> 
> 405.3 pounds of 19-19-19
> per 1 acre.
> 
> And although not exactly what I need, it will get me 92% of what I need.   I don't worry about being too exact, though ... just use as a reference
> 
> http://aesl.ces.uga.edu/soil/fertcalc/



Just as a reference to the above quote .... which is going to be cheaper ... 600 lbs of 13-13-13 or 400 lbs of 19-19-19.  Might save you some money by going with 19-19-19, along with less work and handling.   33% difference in weight.


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## Canuck5

Also, if you need to have your fertilizer delivered and spread, sometimes, you can have them mix your bulk lime requirements in there too, at the same time.  Kill 2 birds with one stone.


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## Canuck5

*5 reasons food plots fail*

Good article!  http://www.qdma.com/articles/five-reasons-food-plots-fail


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## Canuck5

Just to follow up from page one ..... plant your seeds at the proper depth.  Whether it is cereal grains, clovers, brassicas or other things ..... If you are planting (for example) clover in a shadier plot, adjust your seeding rate (lbs/acre) up, to have a successful plot


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## Canuck5

Timing is everything!

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## Canuck5

I know everyone plants food plots for different reasons .... some are strictly "kill plots", which is great.  I just don't want to confuse anyone, on what my goals are, which are to attract and hold deer on the property and give them the best nutrition we can afford.  So, what do deer need to eat and when?


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## Canuck5

Some more copy & pasting


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## Triple C

Canuck...Good stuff as always!  Looking forward to posting the progression of our fall plots when we start planting in September.


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## Canuck5

I'm getting itchy, but I'm still 60 days away tho, but trying to get a plan put together!  Some "Cool Season Food Plot" possibilities (assuming amended soils)  Don't look at the prices.

It's a good reference, a place to start and probably is a lot less expensive, by mixing your own, if you have a few acres to plant.  If you have a couple acres or less, then using a premixed bag probably is cheaper ..... just don't plant small seeds too deep.


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## Crakajak

I like meat and potatoes.


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## Canuck5

Just hard to beat (economically priced) meat and taters!!!!


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## Canuck5

*Ok, I'm a poor hunter ... I admit it ..... but*

I think I may have this thing figured out!!    Just sit in a White Oak tree, in the center of your food plot, at high noon ( I can have my morning coffee and a good breakfast by then) on November 15th (for me).  The "Georgia" chart shows the peak deer breeding dates


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## Canuck5

Spraying Glyphosate ..... read your label!!!!!


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## fellybbob

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
good stuff right there
thanks


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## Canuck5

Simplified, Nitrogen (N) makes green leafy plants (what the deer eats), Phosphorous (P) promotes root growth (kind of a good thing) and Potassium (K) promotes seed and fruit growth.  All needed to make a tasty plant for deer.


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## Canuck5

(An actual soil test is the right way to go, but this is a reasonable "guess" for different soils.  Lot's of things can affect a soils ability to improve it's ph)


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## Triple C

Need advice...

Last fall we planted radishes and chicory in 2 of our plots.  Results were better than expected.  Chicory is now fully mature in these plots and weeds are not bad.  Is it possible to spray gly to kill what weeds there are without hurting the chicory?  Would love to set back the weeds but not kill the chicory and then plant cereal grains in these plots to rotate out of radishes.


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## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Need advice...
> 
> Last fall we planted radishes and chicory in 2 of our plots.  Results were better than expected.  Chicory is now fully mature in these plots and weeds are not bad.  Is it possible to spray gly to kill what weeds there are without hurting the chicory?  Would love to set back the weeds but not kill the chicory and then plant cereal grains in these plots to rotate out of radishes.



Well ...... on June 7th, I sprayed my chicory with 22 ounces/acre of 41% glyphosate.  The pictures are from July 12th, but we also did not get any rain in those 35 days.  It nuked everything pretty good, I just haven't been back down since, for more pics.

We're between Macon and Columbus, and it was definitely hot and dry there.  If you've had a few rains, recently, I wouldn't be afraid to do it!  It set the chicory back, but the deer were still there looking for it.  If I'd have had more rain, I think the chicory would've been a lot larger.


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## Triple C

Sweet!  I can live with that.  You can't believe how much chicory is growing in these plots.  Almost like a lawn and I'm sure that's why the weeds haven't been to bad.  Will spray with recommended amount of gly n add grains late Sept.

Thx!


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## Canuck5

Good luck!!


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## Canuck5

*Army Worms ....*

Stealing this great info, that GAFALjd gave us in another thread.  We're in that time of year and a good reason not to plant food plots too soon.

http://nwdistrict.ifas.ufl.edu/phag/2014/07/18/tips-for-controlling-armyworms-in-hay-fields/


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## Canuck5

Land preparation


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## Canuck5

Checklist for why a food plot failed


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## Forest Grump

Triple C said:


> Need advice...
> 
> Last fall we planted radishes and chicory in 2 of our plots.  Results were better than expected.  Chicory is now fully mature in these plots and weeds are not bad.  Is it possible to spray gly to kill what weeds there are without hurting the chicory?  Would love to set back the weeds but not kill the chicory and then plant cereal grains in these plots to rotate out of radishes.



Yes, do not exceed 22oz/ac of glyphosate, in water or with surfactant. Do not use crop oil. Do not use Basagran + crop oil on chicory (unless you are tired of chicory, it will magically disappear). 

What weeds do you have that you would like to get rid of? There may be a better choice than a nonspecific herbicide (for example, Raptor @ 4 oz/ac is safe over chicory, & has residual, but Pursuit/Slay is not)

If, as you say, the weeds are not bad, you might do well just to mow & prevent them going to seed, & wait for cool weather to favor the chicory (add a little perennial clover if you are keeping the chicory).


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## Triple C

Thx guys!  As for the weeds, a little dog fennel and nut grass.


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## Canuck5

Forest Grump said:


> Yes, do not exceed 22oz/ac of glyphosate, in water or with surfactant. Do not use crop oil. Do not use Basagran + crop oil on chicory (unless you are tired of chicory, it will magically disappear).
> 
> What weeds do you have that you would like to get rid of? There may be a better choice than a nonspecific herbicide (for example, Raptor @ 4 oz/ac is safe over chicory, & has residual, but Pursuit/Slay is not)
> 
> If, as you say, the weeds are not bad, you might do well just to mow & prevent them going to seed, & wait for cool weather to favor the chicory (add a little perennial clover if you are keeping the chicory).



Good suggestion!


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## Canuck5

*Breaking Ground with Improved ATV Food-Plotting Tools*

Something to think about, using ATV's for food plots

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...aking-ground-improved-atv-food-plotting-tools


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## Canuck5

I'm itching to get out there and make some dust, in my heavy red clay, but it is still way toooooo early.  My likely plan is to spread my fertilizer the 2nd week in September, work it into the ground, pray for a little rain to maybe get some weed seeds to germinate and then finish planting late in September.  I have to work around work, unfortunately!

The risks I take in doing this, is that if we have a gully washer, I could loose some or most of my nitrogen, but it's one of those chances I plan to take, to make things a little easier on myself.  Or if planting gets postponed too many weeks, for being too wet, but since September is usually one of the drier months of the year, I should be safe.

Will my fertilizer still be there when I plant?  Since I plan to incorporate it in the soil and a few weeks later, plant, I might loose a little nitrogen, but probably not too much.

Broadcasting on top of the ground (a nitrogen fertilizer), with no rain, not incorporating it in the soil, too soon, may be a cause for concern.


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## Canuck5

I hate weeds ... maybe that's because of too many years behind a hoe, but ..... I hate weeds.   Well, this year, I do have a few food plots that have more than my fair share of weeds in them.  The more you improve the soil, the more they show up, which probably says you're headed in the right direction, for the most part.

There are herbicides I can use to correct the problem and I did with some, but now I'm getting late enough in the year, that it won't be long before I work them in to the soil, ...... but there is a bright side to the weeds.  They do have some good points, even for the ones the critters won't eat.  Below are some of the benefits of weeds, which also tells us that not having bare ground, is a good thing.  Nowadays, in farming there is lots of talk about having cover crops and the good things they do for your soil.

You can download an interesting (free) read on cover crops here  http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition


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## Amoo

Ok fellas, I'll be doing my first food plots this year on my second season of hunting this land so I'll be looking for some guidance and advice.  I tend to get a little long winded, but as an initial post I feel this is necessary to get the help I'm looking for.  Sorry in advance 

Last year I got permission to hunt the 60 acres located....right next door.  Late last summer (Late September) they timbered the land and came in and took almost all of the pines which weren't right up against the creek/ditch/canal that sits on the property (not planted pines but relatively dense).  There are a few hundred acres of woods around my area and everything outside of that is all farmland minus a few houses spread here and there.  Typical crops in my area are Corn, Cotton and Peanuts.  We have a very healthy deer population (too health according to the farmers  ).  Via trail cams and night hunting nuisance permit scouting I have been able to confirm 5 different mini herds of 6+ deer plus countless different individuals.  The moral of all that I guess is, we have very good deer density.  Back on topic...

So what once was pines and oaks is now oaks and brush, this means my pH is probably pretty acidic.  I haven't had a soil test done yet (that's coming next week before I glyc), but I have had a water test done on my property next door and we are around 5.5.  I'm assuming my soil in there is going to be close to that.

I'm going to be planting what amounts to about half an acre this year in 3 mini kill plots to be expanded next year for year round supplementation (had to rebuild my stand after the existing one blew over last spring , wasn't mine originally so I got a free one for a year).  So far I have bush-hogged the area I plan to plant and will be hitting everything with glyc this week.  I will hit the land with my neighbor's discs probably the end of this month.

Since I had very little idea what I was doing when I set out on this journey, here is what I paid too much for in supplies this year:

Evolved Habitats Clover Crush (http://www.evolved.com/products/clover-crush.html#.U-Xp9GPPAfs) - SOme type of Red and White Perennial Clovers, no idea really.

Evolved Habitats Shot Plot (http://www.evolved.com/products/food-plots/shotplot-2-5lbs.html#.U-XvMGPPAfs) Different types of Brassicas

5# of Iron and Clay Peas

Waiting on Fert/lime for my soil test.

So my first question is, How do I work this stuff? 

If I've got my reading from this site and post correct I need to get the two evolved habitat products in the ground sometime around late Mid-Late September?

Just mix together and spread?

I then let that run it's coarse throughout the winter, then next spring (April time frame I guess?) mow and glyc that and plant the iron and clay peas?

Let the Iron and Clay peas run their coarse next year, then come this time next year repeat that process with hopefully better soil condition and seed at 1/4 of the price I paid this year?

Here's a picture of the land I'm working with since everybody likes pictures.  I'll update when I get some better shots:







Ok in all seriousness here are a few shots from last year:

This is before they took the pines out:





This is after pines removed plus a late night visitor.  Should give you a good idea of the sizes of brush I'm working with:


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## Canuck5

A soil test is going to tell you soooo much.  When you do collect your soil sample and submit it, tell them you want to plant clover and they will formulate a plan for you.

My biggest fear, is that if you use those Evolved Harvest (good products), you'll be deeply disappointed, because your soil ph is going to be too low. If you look on page 1, you will see the requirements for red and white clover and my guess is your ph is going to be 5 or below.  In their instructions, it tells you your ph needs to be above 6.5.  Expensive products to use, if your soil is not right.

So, if you can return those and get your money back or store them in a cool dry place till next year, that's what I would do.  To come up with something else to grow, that will increase your chances of success, buy wheat, oats and crimson clover.  They are good attractants and easy to grow.

Check out some good suggestions here http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=810145  Lime needs at least 6 months to do you some good, so maybe next fall, you can try those clover blends.

As far as the I&C cowpeas, go ahead and use them this fall.  5 lbs will last 5 minutes, LOL .... they are like candy to deer and will eat them up quickly.  Good luck and let us know how things turn out!  Don't be afraid to ask questions!!  Lots of smart people on this board!


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## Canuck5

Weeds ..... every time you work up the ground, you can bring dormant weeds back up.  Some can stay dormant for a good long time.  Even with no till operations (which is actually minimum till) they still pop up.  I guess that's why Monsanto is still in business.


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## fellybbob

what would be a fair price for 50# bag of crimson clover and if anyone knows of a store near Waycross or Valdosta


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## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> what would be a fair price for 50# bag of crimson clover and if anyone knows of a store near Waycross or Valdosta



In Manchester, I've been quoted $75/bag


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## Canuck5

The plants in your food plot, can tell you a lot.  We took over a new piece of property a couple of years ago and the first things I noticed was all the purple plants in the food plots, which appeared to be a phosphorous deficiency.  What it really was, was a low ph, which did not allow the plants to pull the phosphorus out of the soil.


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## Canuck5

Just more food for thought, if you want to maximize forage, for your deer


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## Triple C

Canuck...Thanks for posting all the technical data over the past few weeks.  This is going to be a great resource thread in the months ahead.  I previously followed the QDMA forum for a lot of technical info but now keep coming back to this thread for updates.  Many of us are following along in preparation of planting in the coming weeks.


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## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C ... I copy & paste, well.    Really just trying to layout the "basics" and why things are done, & how they are done and what makes sense.  There's lots of smart people on here, who have forgotten more than what I'm putting here.

With our Georgia soils (in most cases) it's hard to grow anything that will be palatable to deer, so we have to go thru the process of changing the soil.  Then once we've changed the soil, we can select a multitude of things to plant, but we need to decide on what will maximize forage for the size of plot we have.

I enjoy seeing (beautiful) pictures of some of the very large acreage food plots and wished I had a couple like that, but unfortunately I don't.  Have to make do with what I have!

But I enjoy this too .... if I can help, I'm glad too.


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Just more food for thought, if you want to maximize forage, for your deer



wheat and crimson seems like a great choice.


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## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> wheat and crimson seems like a great choice.



We're going to call that the "Crakajak Mix!  A suprise (hopefully) in every plot!"  Wheat is sooooooooooo easy to germinate even on top of the ground and crimson will get going this fall ..... hard to beat and add in the amount of forage it produces!!!!!


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## Canuck5

But alas, this trumps the Crakajak Mix ..... not even in the same ball field!!!  They are dropping now and who knows how long they will drop for this year.  All I know, is that there is no hurry for me to put seed in the ground, with these dropping near by!  Focus on the acorns!

And this year, it appears to be a bumper crop, in my back yard.


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## Canuck5

If you don't have a hand spreader yet, to spread your small seeds, I've used this Solo 421S spreader for a couple of years and it has worked pretty good.  Easy to clean up.


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## fellybbob

Canuck5 said:


> In Manchester, I've been quoted $75/bag



Quote:
Originally Posted by fellybbob View Post 
what would be a fair price for 50# bag of crimson clover and if anyone knows of a store near Waycross or Valdosta 

In Manchester, I've been quoted $75/bag 


Hey Manchester is a little far. been checking around the area and most of the seed store have the mix stuff which doesn't look too promising  and we want to plant the Crakajak Mix


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## Canuck5

Well, just check and see if they will "order" the wheat and crimson separately.  Most feed & seed places can place an order on Tuesday and have it arrive with their next shipment on Monday, kind of thing.  Worth a try!


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## Canuck5

Pelletized Lime vs AG Lime .... how much less can I use?  Maybe 20% less?

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Agronomy/Extension/ssnv/ssvl189.htm


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> But alas, this trumps the Crakajak Mix ..... not even in the same ball field!!!  They are dropping now and who knows how long they will drop for this year.  All I know, is that there is no hurry for me to put seed in the ground, with these dropping near by!  Focus on the acorns!
> 
> And this year, it appears to be a bumper crop, in my back yard.


Looks like it will be a good year for acorns. I am seeing white,red already making,The persimmons are still green,peach tree collapsed from to much fruit as well as lost limbs on my 80 year old pear tree.But the deer love the fruit I piled up off the trees.


----------



## Canuck5

It will be interesting this year!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

PH logarithmic scale ......  If 7 is neutral, a ph of 6 is 10 times more acidic.  A ph of 5 is 100 times more acidic.  A ph of 4 is 1000 times more acidic .........  That's why we see some soil samples come back telling us we need lots of tons/acre of lime, to correct the soil ph.


----------



## Crakajak

fellybbob said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by fellybbob View Post
> what would be a fair price for 50# bag of crimson clover and if anyone knows of a store near Waycross or Valdosta
> 
> In Manchester, I've been quoted $75/bag
> 
> 
> Hey Manchester is a little far. been checking around the area and most of the seed store have the mix stuff which doesn't look too promising  and we want to plant the Crakajak Mix



Farmers  supply in Valdosta should have their seed in in the next few weeks.Give them a call 229-242-9911.


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> But alas, this trumps the Crakajak Mix ..... not even in the same ball field!!!  They are dropping now and who knows how long they will drop for this year.  All I know, is that there is no hurry for me to put seed in the ground, with these dropping near by!  Focus on the acorns!
> 
> And this year, it appears to be a bumper crop, in my back yard.



There isn't anything I have planted that ever took the place of some really sweet white oak acorns.You got any deer in your back yard?
Here is my train of thought on acorns. 
Acorns fall on ground, does find and eat acorns,Buck find does,eat acorns, hunter shoots buck,rinse and repeat.


----------



## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> There isn't anything I have planted that ever took the place of some really sweet white oak acorns.You got any deer in your back yard?
> Here is my train of thought on acorns.
> Acorns fall on ground, does find and eat acorns,Buck find does,eat acorns, hunter shoots buck,rinse and repeat.



A good plan!!!  All I have in my backyard is those darned tree rats!!!!


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> A good plan!!!  All I have in my backyard is those darned tree rats!!!!



They eat well also.Squirrel dumplins be good. I'll save the brains for you .


----------



## fellybbob

thanks for the info crakajak 
they sure eat good not to much meat on them bones tho ...............


----------



## Amoo

Canuck5 said:


> If you don't have a hand spreader yet, to spread your small seeds, I've used this Solo 421S spreader for a couple of years and it has worked pretty good.  Easy to clean up.



The fact that this spreader isn't red makes me sad on the inside.


----------



## Canuck5

Lol!!!


----------



## Crakajak

Amoo said:


> The fact that this spreader isn't red makes me sad on the inside.



They both can get you in trouble with the better 1/2 if you spend to much time and money on it.


----------



## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> They both can get you in trouble with the better 1/2 if you spend to much time and money on it.



You speaketh the truth!


----------



## Amoo

Ok Canuck, you re-posted this in my thread and after really spending some time thinking about it, I'd like to have a nerdy discussion about it.  I'm not doubting your source here, but the numbers for Phos just don't make sense to me.

Nitrogen and K track about how I would expect, you gain a moderate percentage more use per unit of pH change AND that change is relatively linear.  Then we have Phos, again relatively linear gains, be it small, then suddenly the flood gates open at some magic point between 6-7 and we get it all?  Just doesn't seem right.


----------



## Canuck5

Well, Chemistry is above my pay scale, however that is exactly what it is.  There's lots that I have already posted about it and certainly more that can be found on the subject.

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/nut...tional/soil-fertility/soil-acidity-and-aglime

That's not a chart that I made up, but one which I copied and pasted, for it's simple explanation on the effects of having excess Hydrogen atoms (acid) in your soil, that bind up Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium and not make them available to your plants to use.  It's Chemistry ...  at some point, a more neutral soil begins to release the N P K and make it available to plants.  Looks like the P reacts differently to soil ph for some reason, but I don't have an answer to give as to why.

PH is not a straight line, linear scale ..... it's a logarithmic.  See post 89.  Your 4.2 soil ph is about 1000 times more acidic than a neutral ph of 7.    A ph of 6, is only 10 times more acidic than 7 ...... a lot less Hydrogen ions floating around, than a 4.2 ph.  A lot less Hydrogen causing problems for your NPK.

Not sure if this helps ..... but smarter minds than mine have spent lots of time, energy and money to determine what farmers need to do, to get maximum performance out of their soil.  Try it yourself ..... this fall, plant a small area that you don't lime and compare that to the area you've limed, next spring.  Then compare the unlimed plants, to the chart in post 76 and see what nutrients those plants didn't get.

Wished I was smarter, but there are some things I just take as fact, when there has been so much research done on it.  I just try to get us all steered in the right direction, to have the greatest chance of success, without reinventing the wheel.  Really, all I am helping with, is just the "basics".


----------



## Amoo

Canuck,

Hope I didn't offend you buddy, that wasn't my intention, I simply don't know your background and didn't know how involved in the research of some of this stuff you actually are.  My background does involve a decent amount of chemistry and if you knew and went into details about the explanation I would have understood.

Also, no need to explain yourself as to why you offer the advice you offer.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you have put in helping myself and others with their plots.  My question really didn't have anything to do with the info you gave me about my plot, I take your word pretty close to gospel.  My background is heavy analytical and this one graph just didn't make sense so I was seeking further explanation.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I want to repeat this again.  I really really hope I didn't offend you in any way and if I did, I'm very sorry.


----------



## Canuck5

No offense taken!  If you can find out why P becomes soluble after a ph of 6 is reached, it would be interesting to find out!


----------



## Triple C

*The dog days of summer are here...*

Canuck...Looks like the dog days of summer are in full bloom.  Many get so anxious to get something in the ground in August including your's truly.  Doing our best to keep the planting woes at bay until at least mid September.  Can't wait to get something in the ground and start posting the progress of fall plot progression.  Haven't been down to the farm in a couple of weeks and can't wait to get down next week to see the progression of a decent group of bucks.  Here's from the 1st of August.


----------



## Amoo

Canuck5 said:


> No offense taken!  If you can find out why P becomes soluble after a ph of 6 is reached, it would be interesting to find out!





> The solubility of the various inorganic phosphorus compounds directly affects the availability of phosphorus for plant growth. The solubility is influenced by the soil pH. Soil phosphorus is most available for plant use at pH values of 6 to 7. When pH is less than 6, plant available phosphorus becomes increasingly tied up in aluminum phosphates. As soils become more acidic (pH below 5), phosphorus is fixed in iron phosphates. Some soils in the upland Prairie areas of Mississippi have pH values greater than 7. When pH values exceed 7.3, phosphorus is increasingly made unavailable by fixation in calcium phosphates.



Source: GO STATE!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Amoo said:


> Source: GO STATE!!!!



Good job!!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C, you've got a fine group of bachelors there!  I was down at our camp this weekend and the ground is sure dry now, without any significant chance of rain in the 10 day forecast.  Might be dry for a little while!


----------



## Amoo

I personally found this info very, well, cool.  (Keep in mind I'm a nerd in my spare time.)  It makes me wonder if our other resources are getting bound by something at different levels as well.  When I get some time later this evening I will do a little more digging around Ms State website and see if I can dig something up.  There may not be much to Starkville, or MS State for that matter, but they do have one of the best Ag schools in the country.


----------



## Canuck5

I'm sure other nutrients are bound up by extremely low ph ...... lime is the cheap mans fertilizer!


----------



## Canuck5

Last weekend, I worked up some plots that had "slender goldentop", "small flower morning glory" and the dreaded "sicklepod".  This property was recently harvested for pine and all this comes out of nowhere.  I wanted all this dead before it went to seed.

I was using my 8 foot set of discs, in the 98 degree heat and out of spite, went over the sicklepod 4 times.  By 1pm, I was finished for the day and by 3pm, the heat had wilted everything and was now being quickly turned into organic matter.  The chopped up stems, bled those $#@!@#@~!!! to death!

I'm hoping that we get some rain soon, to germinate some more weeds, so that I can do it all over again, to them.  I know that my seed bank has a ton of nasty stuff in it, but if I can get "control", it will make things easier in the future.

My disking did a better job, than had I sprayed it with glyphosate (in this instance), because of the maturing sicklepod, which is hard to kill after it gets more than a few inches tall.  The goldentop, too, because of it's small leaves, can give me trouble sometimes to kill, too.

Two lessons in all this, was as bad as these weeds are, not having bare soil, was an extremely good thing.  All these weeds, some with some pretty deep roots, pulled nutrients out of the deeper regions of my soil, and brought them to the surface, in the form of leaves and stems.  I've now chopped those up, turning it into organic matter, for my next crop(s) to use, at some point.

The second lesson, was that in some of these plots, there were areas where there weren't as many weeds.  The disks pulled harder and they did not go as deep and didn't leave me as nice of a seed bed.  Could be a few reasons for this, but the weeds (which I wished I'd have had a summer crop in there) broke up the soil for me.

So, not having bare soil, is a good thing ..... provides organic matter, more nutrients and improves the soil tillage and if we can feed the deer, all the better!


----------



## Canuck5

But, just don't let them go to seed!!!!  LOL


----------



## fellybbob

well we're running disks this weekend. also found our lime at Blackshear 15 minutes from Waycross  Gillis Brothers @ $38.00 a ton including trailer with spreader. got the crimson pay more than I wanted but that's life. will try to post pictures. 

will be planting around season opener


----------



## Canuck5

Interesting study by QDMA .... Providing good food, water & cover ......


----------



## Amoo

Not sure if you have posted this chart yet Canuck, but this one is kind of a "rider" to some of the others you have already posted.







Source


----------



## Canuck5

Good chart!


----------



## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> Interesting study by QDMA .... Providing good food, water & cover ......



Great article!  Our experience supports this data.  With year-round food sources and plenty of cover you can reduce the size of a buck's home range.  Want to increase the number of bucks calling your place home?  Maintain good cover with plenty of early successional browse and grow year-round food sources.  Imagine having a deer visiting the same food plot almost every day of it's life.  Add clover and chicory to the perimeters of your food plot to keep um coming in between the rotation of beans/peas, winter grains and brassicas.

Canuck, this thread is turning into a great resource thread with all of the data you are posting.  Thx for taking the time to do it!  We'll all add to it here in a few weeks when fall plantings start.


----------



## Crakajak

Triple C said:


> Great article!  Our experience supports this data.  With year-round food sources and plenty of cover you can reduce the size of a buck's home range.  Want to increase the number of bucks calling your place home?  Maintain good cover with plenty of early successional browse and grow year-round food sources.  Imagine having a deer visiting the same food plot almost every day of it's life.  Add clover and chicory to the perimeters of your food plot to keep um coming in between the rotation of beans/peas, winter grains and brassicas.
> 
> Canuck, this thread is turning into a great resource thread with all of the data you are posting.  Thx for taking the time to do it!  We'll all add to it here in a few weeks when fall plantings start.


Don't forget about the fruit/ nut trees.
I have some type of fruit tree dropping July thru Nov.
Mix in the white oaks,sawtooth oaks,red oaks and chestnuts and you have candy for the deer for 5-6 months.


----------



## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> Don't forget about the fruit/ nut trees.
> I have some type of fruit tree dropping July thru Nov.
> Mix in the white oaks,sawtooth oaks,red oaks and chestnuts and you have candy for the deer for 5-6 months.



Absolutely!  I noticed that our persimmons are getting close!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Great article!  Our experience supports this data.  With year-round food sources and plenty of cover you can reduce the size of a buck's home range.  Want to increase the number of bucks calling your place home?  Maintain good cover with plenty of early successional browse and grow year-round food sources.  Imagine having a deer visiting the same food plot almost every day of it's life.  Add clover and chicory to the perimeters of your food plot to keep um coming in between the rotation of beans/peas, winter grains and brassicas.
> 
> Canuck, this thread is turning into a great resource thread with all of the data you are posting.  Thx for taking the time to do it!  We'll all add to it here in a few weeks when fall plantings start.



Thanks Triple C!  Starting to get anxious now!


----------



## destincabo

Triple C said:


> Great article!  Our experience supports this data.  With year-round food sources and plenty of cover you can reduce the size of a buck's home range.  Want to increase the number of bucks calling your place home?  Maintain good cover with plenty of early successional browse and grow year-round food sources.  Imagine having a deer visiting the same food plot almost every day of it's life.  Add clover and chicory to the perimeters of your food plot to keep um coming in between the rotation of beans/peas, winter grains and brassicas.
> 
> Canuck, this thread is turning into a great resource thread with all of the data you are posting.  Thx for taking the time to do it!  We'll all add to it here in a few weeks when fall plantings start.



Great tip about having the clover on the outer edges of the food plots/fields. Will keep that in mind when planting in October.


----------



## Canuck5

Thought I had put this somewhere, but if not, here it is again


----------



## Triple C

destincabo said:


> Great tip about having the clover on the outer edges of the food plots/fields. Will keep that in mind when planting in October.



I went to the farm on Friday and just returned.  The deer are hammering our clover and chicory plots.  Other than native browse, the only "planted" food source we have that is still producing at this time of year is our chicory and clover.  Our soybean experiment was pretty much a failure this year.  We have a total of 10 acres of food plots on 287 acres and thought we had enough to plant soybeans.  We didn't!  Deer just devoured them!  Thank goodness we have 2 really good plots of chicory with quite a bit of clover left in them.  Deer seem to ignore the chicory until late summer when other stuff is either hardened or gone.  Chicory and clover is clipped all over the plots.

Spent most of Saturday harrowing our bean field and grain fields in preparation of fall plantings.  Turning as much of the green manure as possible back into the soil.  Will wait about 2 more weeks then spray them with gly to set back in grass n weeds coming up.  Then plant come the last week of September, provided we have rain in the forecast.  Gonna plant 10% of our biggest field in white clover around the perimeter to make sure they have something that will keep them coming into the field this time next year.   Also hung a stand this morning.  Or should I say I watched while my boys did the dirty work.  Got many more to hang but just to hot to do it!


----------



## Triple C

*Thoughts on Pokeweed...*

Why is it that some of the pokeweed just gets hammered but the majority of them do not???

Here is a stalk near one of our biggest plots that basically has been browsed since May.  Other's near by don't appear to be touched.


----------



## Canuck5

It does amazes me, but I sure don't have a good answer for you!


----------



## Forest Grump

Triple C said:


> Why is it that some of the pokeweed just gets hammered but the majority of them do not???
> 
> Here is a stalk near one of our biggest plots that basically has been browsed since May.  Others near by don't appear to be touched.



Typically, they prefer the tender, newer foliage & also the plants that are fertilized. So they will feed on the young plants, especially those in/next to the food plots, & sometimes re-visit plants that have been browsed before as they put new leaves on.


----------



## Canuck5

^^^^^ Makes sense!


----------



## Canuck5

*For what it's worth*

I have a "drag" behind my set of disc's, that helps level out the ground and take a little "air" out of the soil.  It works pretty good.  It's set to raise up, when I raise the discs.


----------



## fellybbob

disk and lime


----------



## Canuck5

*The basics of effective tillage techniques*

Good job!!!  And speaking of tillage, an interesting read!

http://www.newfarm.org/features/2005/0105/earlyweeds/index1.shtml


----------



## jr123

I've got a question. If I am going to plant a Wheat, crimson and arrowleaf clover mix. How long after I plant it should I fertilize it? Also, when I disk up the soil, should I spray a glyphosate herbicide? Or will disking work fine?


----------



## Canuck5

jr123 said:


> I've got a question. If I am going to plant a Wheat, crimson and arrowleaf clover mix. How long after I plant it should I fertilize it? Also, when I disk up the soil, should I spray a glyphosate herbicide? Or will disking work fine?



1.  If you need dead weeds and dead roots in order to effectively disc up your plot in a couple of passes because you don't have enough weight on the discs or tractor HP, then spray, wait a couple of weeks, work up the ground, then plant.

2.  If you can pull your discs with no problems, then first spread your fertilizer, then disc it up.  Discing is effective weed control too.  The negatives are that you are bringing more weed seeds to the surface, but both you and I are going to do that anyway.

Put your fertilizer down into the root zone of your plants, by discing, before you broadcast the seed.

For those of us with a little bit of chunky soil, sometimes if you disc in the morning, wait till the afternoon to broadcast seed and either disc or drag it into the soil, having the "clods" dry out a little, will give them the tendency to break up more, as we disc or drag.

Good luck and show us some pictures!


----------



## Canuck5

Spraying weeds a couple weeks beforehand, can make discing a lot easier .... but if you don't need it "easier", then discing can effectively kill weeds.  I worked up ground when it was close to 100 degrees a few weeks ago, and the weeds were dead and deteriorating before 3pm that afternoon.


----------



## Canuck5

The plots in post 126 had been worked up on that near 100 degree day on 8/23/14 ..... they were covered in small flower morning glory, slender yellow top and a few other nasty's .... A few weeds survived, but you can see it was pretty effective weed control.  However, there were tiny weed seeds germinating, but spraying on 8/23/14 would not have killed those ... now they are gone


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Wish we had big equipment where we could just disk it and be done with it. We have light mainly light duty tractors and dics takes more effort and weight to get the samething done but we did do 15 acres of food plots with them. Just takes more time


----------



## Canuck5

15 acres is a lot!!!!


----------



## Triple C

Sprayed all of our plots with gly last weekend.  Plan on discing everything under this weekend and hopefully getting everything planted with all of the rain predicted in the next week.  My boys are leaving for CO middle of next week for a DIY archery elk hunt so they won't be around to help for a couple of weeks.  Youngest has taken 1 elk and 1 muley over the past 7 or 8 years of going out there.  Oldest will be making his 3rd trip and hopefully connecting on one this year.


----------



## fellybbob

love elk meat


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> 15 acres is a lot!!!!



We had 5 tractors 2 arcs and pulling a seeder and drag took two different weekends a lot broke stuff be we got her


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Sprayed all of our plots with gly last weekend.  Plan on discing everything under this weekend and hopefully getting everything planted with all of the rain predicted in the next week.  My boys are leaving for CO middle of next week for a DIY archery elk hunt so they won't be around to help for a couple of weeks.  Youngest has taken 1 elk and 1 muley over the past 7 or 8 years of going out there.  Oldest will be making his 3rd trip and hopefully connecting on one this year.



You're ready then!!  It's getting closer!


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> We had 5 tractors 2 arcs and pulling a seeder and drag took two different weekends a lot broke stuff be we got her



LOL ... breaking stuff does happen!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Man you aren't kidding. Broke a plow and bolts . Busted a tire another plow broke bolts. Broke anti sway shackes two of them and turn buckle. Broke spreader bar that holds it up (weld) another plow broke bolts where it was a expensive planting year. Now the timber company is cutting and used couple of our fresh planted food plots liked and fertilized talk about a real heart breaker sigh.. It's been a aweful year at our lease so far hope deer season is good sure hasn't looked good thus far


----------



## Canuck5

Let's see .... bush hog torn up twice ..... back window knocked out of a pickup .... chainsaws, well, don't get me started on chainsaws ....  well pump .... sprayer pump ... bad gas in 4 wheeler ..... the list does go on ..... it's always an adventure!


----------



## Amoo

Canuck5 said:


> Let's see .... bush hog torn up twice ..... back window knocked out of a pickup .... chainsaws, well, don't get me started on chainsaws ....  well pump .... sprayer pump ... bad gas in 4 wheeler ..... the list does go on ..... it's always an adventure!



A friend of mine in Virginia that owns a yard business once told me, "If you're going to buy a chainsaw buy a stihl, they all tear up, but I have the best luck with them."  I took his advice and found as long as I don't let gas sit in them I don't have issues.  Gas sitting is an issue with any 2 cycle carb engine though.


----------



## teamsearay

i thought it was just me. Everything has tore up in the last 2 weeks


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Member was down planting and plowing a couple small plots today broke his disc harrow hitting a tree then broke my drag! Lol what a darn year so far


----------



## Canuck5

Amoo said:


> A friend of mine in Virginia that owns a yard business once told me, "If you're going to buy a chainsaw buy a stihl, they all tear up, but I have the best luck with them."  I took his advice and found as long as I don't let gas sit in them I don't have issues.  Gas sitting is an issue with any 2 cycle carb engine though.



LOL ... for us, most of the time it's poor maintenance on them ... which is frustrating


----------



## Canuck5

Yeah, I've just about decided that it's just part of the adventure ..... LOL  Tearing things up


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Lol ... Woo glad the work is done now time to get ready to sling some sticks I need to take pics but get so wound up plowing and working I always forget


----------



## destincabo

Canuck5 said:


> Spraying weeds a couple weeks beforehand, can make discing a lot easier .... but if you don't need it "easier", then discing can effectively kill weeds.  I worked up ground when it was close to 100 degrees a few weeks ago, and the weeds were dead and deteriorating before 3pm that afternoon.



We bush hogged and disced our Iron Clay Peas yesterday to prep and get ready to plant after 10/1.  Love those peas, but dang the stalks are tough. Need a diamond cutter on the discs to chop those things up.  Still have a good bit of Iron Clay Pea thatch in the plots. How long do you think it will take for them to decay enough, so that when we disc again they'll be user friendly?  Hoping all of the nitrogen in those peas are going to pay dividends this fall.


----------



## Canuck5

destincabo said:


> We bush hogged and disced our Iron Clay Peas yesterday to prep and get ready to plant after 10/1.  Love those peas, but dang the stalks are tough. Need a diamond cutter on the discs to chop those things up.  Still have a good bit of Iron Clay Pea thatch in the plots. How long do you think it will take for them to decay enough, so that when we disc again they'll be user friendly?  Hoping all of the nitrogen in those peas are going to pay dividends this fall.



Hard to say ... not knowing what type of equipment you have, or your soil type, but if it is hot, moisture will drain out of the stems and will be easier to work up ..... if you get some dirt on top of them, the microbes will start decomposing them.  Probably 2 weeks and it may not be perfect, but probably good enough!  Remember, when you plant, you just want to have seed to soil contact .... that's all it takes for most things to germinate.


----------



## destincabo

Canuck5 said:


> Hard to say ... not knowing what type of equipment you have, or your soil type, but if it is hot, moisture will drain out of the stems and will be easier to work up ..... if you get some dirt on top of them, the microbes will start decomposing them.  Probably 2 weeks and it may not be perfect, but probably good enough!  Remember, when you plant, you just want to have seed to soil contact .... that's all it takes for most things to germinate.



Canuck we have a John Deere 305 Tractor with disc/hare.  May need to get some weight for the back, I personally think it should dig a little deeper than it does. Its definitely hot and these fields are exposed to direct sunlight. Been too its a sandy loam type of soil.  We'll get them again in a week to do another discing. Thanks the input.


----------



## Triple C

*Fall Planting Update...*

Arrived at the farm mid-afternoon on Friday.  Plans were to disc friday afternoon and much of the day on Saturday in hopes of planting today.  Went down to check our biggest plot, the "bean field", after spraying with gly last weekend.  Still a little green showing but good enough to plow.  Here's what it looked like.


Started plowing about 4:00 p.m. and had to quit about 6:30 due to lightning.  It came a downpour Friday night.  1.75 inches of rain.  Got on tractor at 6:15 Saturday morning and disced with the lights on til it was daylight.  All the rain the night before made it almost too wet to harrow.  Did the best I could but parts of the field were just too wet to get in.


This is our 4th year.  The soil gets better with each passing year.  Lots of lime, fert and organic matter turned back into the soil.  Here's a pic from this morning.  As you can see, it is still too wet to drag so planting this weekend was a no-go except up by the cabin.  We did get about 2.5 acres of Abruzzi Rye planted in the cabin fields.


Added this set of disc harrows this spring.  Really well built from a local company, Dirt Dog.  18" discs.


Too wet to put the drag harrow on it.


----------



## Triple C

*Planting arsenal...*

When I can plant, hopefully next weekend, it will be a combination of the following seed:


----------



## Triple C

*Cabin field planted...*

The cabin field is the highest field on the property.  It was wet but not as bad as the lower fields.  We did manage to get it all planted in Abruzzi Rye.  Great soil builder, fairly inexpensive and easy to grow.

Ran the drag harrow over it after simply broadcasting into a lightly disced field.


----------



## Canuck5

I'm getting the itch to plant too!  Keep us posted with pics!


----------



## Triple C

Got a call from my son after I arrived home yesterday.  He informed me that he was going to plant the "hour glass" plot.  We mowed it a few weeks back then sprayed it with gly labor day weekend.  Gly didn't hurt the clover.  Kind of did a not till planting.  We use a Plotmaster to plant.  It has a double set of harrows in front of the seed boxes and a cult-packer behind it.  Set the harrows just shallow enough to penetrate the soil and the seed drops in the furrows followed by the cultipacker to firm it.  Told him to send me a pic after he finished.  1st pic is from trail cam of me surveying the plot on Saturday.  2nd pic is after Brooks planted yesterday afternoon.  3rd pic is what was planted.


----------



## Crakajak

Nothing like planting in the fall....unless you see that big one in the plot in Nov,also knowing you are helping the wildlife have good nutrition during the upcoming winter.
2 different persimmon seeds had spoons in them. Should be a wet winter.


----------



## jr123

Has anyone ever heard of Supreme Turkey and Deer Mix? If so, what have you heard or experienced with it?


----------



## Canuck5

Sorry, I haven't heard of it, but if you can read the label and tell us what is in it, then we might be able to give an opinion.


----------



## Canuck5

Well, my planting shall begin on 9/26/14!  Should have good moisture in the soil right now and there is a reasonable chance of rain the week after ... so it's a "go" for me!

Plus, "life" gets in the way, the weekends after, so it's good timing for me.


----------



## Canuck5

Finished planting this morning.  Our mainstay is made up of wheat, oats, leftover I&C cowpeas and AWPeas, with a topping of crimson & arrowleaf clover and a dash of daikon radishes.  Rain is supposed to be coming!


----------



## GeorgeShu

Got my plots in over the last 2plus weeks. Got rain and all emerged except small plot put in yesterday. Looking good so far.

Canuck, your mix looks much like mine, cep for the peas.

Hope the rain comes good tomorrow for ya.


----------



## Triple C

Ours are all in.  Just shy of 2 weeks.  Hoping for rain tomorrow to give em a boost.  Good germination in all of the plots.


----------



## Gadestroyer74

On the farm I am hunting In walker county. The land owner has planted saw tooth oaks over the last 20 years or so and they are loaded and falling white oaks are starting to. We haven't had but a trace of rain on his plots and they are up pretty good. It's probly good since there is so much food that the food plots get a delay to keep from getting to high


----------



## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Got my plots in over the last 2plus weeks. Got rain and all emerged except small plot put in yesterday. Looking good so far.
> 
> Canuck, your mix looks much like mine, cep for the peas.
> 
> Hope the rain comes good tomorrow for ya.



Well, looks like the rain missed me last night ...... Hope today is better!!  I'll add, that although I did miss the rain, I did not over work the plots and for 70% of our plots, I did plant in moisture.  A couple with different soil types were a little drier to start with.

My ground had been worked up in early September and we had gotten rain in the last 10 days, so all I did when I got down there, was broadcast the fertilizer and seed, then lightly disked it into the ground.  Seed was covered with moist soil in most cases, and these bigger seeds were planted about 1 1/2" deep.


----------



## Canuck5

Well, what mistakes have you made this fall?  My biggest one, is not letting a younger member plant 6 1/2 acres of clover this year.  But I will remedy that next year!!!

My mistakes will only show up in the next few weeks, but I am noticing a few things that can be done differently, for next year, based on information in the threads.

Looks like one of the bigger ones has to do with planting a little too early, for the specific geographic area you are in.

The problems are army worms eating what they have planted and having to replant.

Planting too early and getting great growth on your food plot, allowing it maybe to mature too soon, while the deer are eating acorns.

Getting rains early, but no follow up moisture, which there isn't too much we can do about, but planting later, when day time temperatures are cooler, as well as night time temps, helps reduce moisture reduction in your soil.

What other things can we correct for 2015?


----------



## Gadestroyer74

I had no control over when and what was planted in the plots I have always planted this coming weekend of next due to rain acorns and warm temps. Mistakes I made this year getting in a club with family. Every time I have done this has been huge problems remedy never again


----------



## Crakajak

I had an extra large crop of crabgrass this year. 
I learned that I need to do a better job on my spraying program in the spring.
I got sidetracked this summer with other projects and the weather didn't allow spraying at the proper time this spring.
Kept putting it off and didn't get sprayed until labor day weekend.
I will have to spray next spring and again next fall to get caught up on my weed control .


----------



## jr123

What should I look for on a label when I purchase seed?


----------



## Canuck5

I guess it really depends on what you want to buy, but the most important thing, is that you buy this years seed.  It should also show what germination rate it was tested at.

If you take at look at Triple C's post # 152, you can see the tested date ..... that means he has seed that was produced for this year.


----------



## HighCotton

We got planted weekend before last (9/20-21).  Checked this past weekend and everything is coming up good.  Rain yesterday will also help.

We planted a mix of wheat-oats-rye with Austrian winter peas also in the mix.  Also added some crimson clover to some of the plots.

Some of our plots are light and sandy soils and we probably got the clover covered too deep.  We'll see.


----------



## Canuck5

After planting my seed, about 1 1/2" deep in moisture, 5 days later they are popping up!


----------



## Amoo

Mistakes made this year:

- Not finding this forum soon enough - Corrected for next year
- Thinking I had less time then I did to get things done because of sparse rain forecast after literally no rain this summer - Correction will be to not worry about what has happened the last 3 months (We've had over a foot of rain since my plots went in the ground)
- Let my pelleted lime get wet before spreading it - Correction will be plastic bags or not purchase until I need it tomorrow.
- Thinking lime takes 6 months to work itself in.  I'm going to wave the red flag on this one.  There is a huge difference in the areas I limed two weeks before planting and the areas I didn't. - Correction would be to tell anybody it's never too late to lime


----------



## Canuck5

Amoo said:


> Correction would be to tell anybody it's never too late to lime



Never too late to lime, is right!


----------



## Triple C

*Update on plots at the Triple C*

Our plots have been in the ground for 3 weeks.  I love fall/winter plots.  They're easy to grow with less weed competition and get better with each passing year.  This is our 4th fall season planting and the 1st year we haven't needed lime.

This is our "Cabin Field" plot.  It's about 3 acres in view of the cabin.  All planted in Abruzzi Rye as a cover crop and soil builder.  And the deer like it as well.


This is our "Bean Field" plot.  A little over 3 acres.  The south end of the plot is heavy clay and planted in Abruzzi Rye.  The north end is planted in trophy radish, winter peas and BFO.  The perimeter of the plot is planted with a 20 ft wide strip of Regal Graze white clover.  We plant the edge of the plot in the left of the picture in grain sorghum each spring and leave it during fall for a little cover when deer enter the field.


This is our "Upper Lower" plot.  It joins the lower lower plot with a fallow area in between except for a strip that gets planted to connect the 2 plots.  It's planted in one of Pennington's fall mixes containing brassicas, winter peas and cereal grains.


This is our "Lower Lower" plot.  Trophy radish and winter peas.


This is the "Hour Glass" plot planted in buck forage oats.


Personally, I get just as much satisfaction from habitat work including food plots as I do from hunting...prolly more.  I do enjoy hunting and already have my 1st miss with a new recurve under my belt.  Hunting with a stick bow just means I watch a lot more game than I harvest.  The whole family gets involved in the planting process and my grandson spends a lot of time with Pops in the woods come this time of year.


----------



## Canuck5

Very nice piece of heaven you have there!!!  Beautiful!  I am anxious to get pictures of our property now too!


----------



## Triple C

*Perennial plots...*

We have 2 plots that are planted in chicory and clover...One of the most cost effective, year round food sources you can plant.  Just mow it 2 or 3 times during the growing season and a light spraying of gly to set back any weeds.  Deer use this plot every day and there's never any down time.  We over seeded with rye n wheat for additional winter food source when the chicory/clover go dormant.  Persimmon tree in foreground adds a little deer candy this time of year.

Best thing about a perennial plot is no "down time" between crops.  Pretty much year round use by the same deer every day.


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Question how do you preserve left over seed to the next year what would be a good area to put it. I have a bag of lab lab I picked up cheap I want to store till spring / summer to plant


----------



## fellybbob

what would be best fertilizer for meat and potatoes and# per acre


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> Question how do you preserve left over seed to the next year what would be a good area to put it. I have a bag of lab lab I picked up cheap I want to store till spring / summer to plant



Keep it in it's original bag and store in a cool, dry, dark place ..... then maybe test for germination, before you plant next spring.


----------



## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> what would be best fertilizer for meat and potatoes and# per acre



A soil test would tell you what you really need, but without that, 300 lbs/acre of a 19-19-19 or, whatever you can afford.


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> Keep it in it's original bag and store in a cool, dry, dark place ..... then maybe test for germination, before you plant next spring.



Cool thanks I will store in the basement it's in the unopened stock bag it's cool down there and dark


----------



## Canuck5

*We need rain bad ..... maybe tuesday!*

Every rain shower has passed us by, since we finished planting September 28th ... hopefully things will change this week.  Just powder sitting on top of the ground.


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...Bad deal on the rain.  Nothing worse than mother nature holding back on the rain after you've planted.  We've faired a little better on the rain since planting 9/16.  It was very wet when we planted so we got good germination and we've had a little rain here and there since.  My son txt'd me this pic from the stand yesterday afternoon.  Had a total of 13 deer come into the plot and watched 2 pair of bucks push each other around for several minutes.


----------



## Canuck5

That' what you want to see, right there!!!


----------



## T.P.

To y'all folks without rain, at home in Franklin and at the lease in Hancock we've had more rain in the last two months than I can ever remember during this time of year. Hope y'all get some soon.


----------



## Canuck5

T.P. said:


> To y'all folks without rain, at home in Franklin and at the lease in Hancock we've had more rain in the last two months than I can ever remember during this time of year. Hope y'all get some soon.



Thanks!  Maybe tomorrow we'll get some.  Right now, I have crimson, arrowleaf, durana clovers, radishes and chicory sitting on top of the dry ground, waiting for a little drink .... it'll be there, when Mother Nature co-operates!

The wheat and oats are doing the best they can .... but 1" of rain, will do them a world of good!


----------



## Amoo

Man what an exciting time of year.  I'm always excited for deer season, but never more so, then now watching and enjoying everybody's greens coming out of the ground.  The hours of enjoyment I'm going to get sitting in my stand looking at the greens blowing are going to be countless, and as always, memorable.

You guys plots are looking good.  Triple C, I'm not hating on anybody else, but those are some of the best plots of any planted on this board, some serious nice stuff you got going there.  I'm hoping over the next 2 years to get mine to a perennial source like yours are.

Canuck buddy, who did you p-off?  You can see the effort you've put in just by how much has come up without the water.  Keep the faith good buddy, water is coming this week for you, I can feel it.


----------



## Canuck5

I know!!!!!  But, if we get the promised rain tomorrow, we should be ok!!  The cooler temps will help too!


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like the rain has arrived!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Even though my food plots are finally getting a much needed drink, I do try to keep some year round food for the deer, to keep them on the property.  This is Durana on a small 1/4 acre plot.  The bare spot shown is now getting a well deserved drink and will be teaming with some Buck Forage Oats, shortly.


----------



## fellybbob

finish planting this weekend meat and potatoes are in the ground and getting a drink as I type. could not find triple 19 but sub with 200 # per acre triple 13. will see what mother nature as in store for us e thanks for advice Canuck5


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## Canuck5

You're good to go!!  Nice rig!!


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## Triple C

Amoo said:


> You guys plots are looking good.  Triple C, I'm not hating on anybody else, but those are some of the best plots of any planted on this board, some serious nice stuff you got going there.  I'm hoping over the next 2 years to get mine to a perennial source like yours are.



Thanks Amoo!  This is our 4th season of plotting on our land.  Seems it gets a little better each year.  The perennial plots just kind of happened.  We had a bag of chicory and white clover from Pennington left over last year and planted in 2 smaller plots last fall along with radishes and little abruzzi rye.  This spring we planted nothing in these plots due to the chicory and clover growth that was occurring.  By late spring/early summer the plots were knee high with grain.  We mowed and the chicory/clover really took off.  Many pics of deer throughout the summer.  Early Sept. we sprayed to kill grasses/weeds prior to fall planting and when we mowed late Sept. the chicory/clover was still going strong.  Over seeded these 2 plots with rye early Oct to provide additional forage for late winter.

We're expanding this perennial deal to our largest plot by planting the entire perimeter in Regal Graze white clover.  Next spring when we plant beans we should have a nice perimeter of white clover to keep em coming in between plantings.

Took this pic of our largest plot 2 weeks after planting.  We planted on 9/16.  Interior is planted in radishes and cereal grains and perimeter in white clover.  The 2nd pic is of the white clover along the perimeter 2 weeks after planting.  Will post more pics of this plot next time I'm down.


----------



## Canuck5

Nice Triple C!  Nice to have some year round food, where possible, to cover the times where you work up ground to plant a summer or fall food plot


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## AustinW26

We planted imperial whitetail chicory plus a month ago. Have not been back yet.  Cant wait to see what it looks like tomorrow


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## Triple C

AustinW26 said:


> We planted imperial whitetail chicory plus a month ago. Have not been back yet.  Cant wait to see what it looks like tomorrow



Don't expect a killer plot this year but come next spring...add some fert and clover and watch what happens!  You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Forest Grump

AustinW26 said:


> We planted imperial whitetail chicory plus a month ago. Have not been back yet.  Can't wait to see what it looks like tomorrow



Both of those start REALLY slow & small. Be very patient, & control your weed competition. That is a great mix, but you plant it in year one more for next year than this year.

If you didn't plant a cereal nurse crop, don't expect a lot of tall greenery & be prepared to spray for grasses & weeds.


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## Canuck5

Sure could use some rain right now!!!!!  The 3 1/2" we got on 10/14 did wonders, but I have a concern now, about the clovers and chicory I planted.  I haven't been down there to check, but I am sure they have germinated.  Now whether they have enough vigor/energy to last till the next rain, we will see.  No real rain in the 10 day forecast.


----------



## Amoo

We're showing showers in the forecast for 11/9.  Kind of far out to hold my breath, but things will definitely need it by then.


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like a 50% chance of rain on 11/6 ... other than that, the only thing we can be happy with, is that the cold nights are suppressing weeds!


----------



## Amoo

Well we got about an inch of rain last week Wed or Thurs, plots really look good.  Sadly they're just not getting much utilization yet.


----------



## Triple C

Amoo said:


> Well we got about an inch of rain last week Wed or Thurs, plots really look good.  Sadly they're just not getting much utilization yet.



Keep the faith Amoo!  Just a matter of time til you have deer in your plots everyday.  May not happen right away but if you continue down the path with your habitat improvements you started earlier this year then you're gonna have fawns born next spring that will grow up coming to your plots just about every day of their lives.  I'd wager that later this month you probably gonna start to wonder what is eating all you plots.


----------



## Amoo

Triple C said:


> Keep the faith Amoo!  Just a matter of time til you have deer in your plots everyday.  May not happen right away but if you continue down the path with your habitat improvements you started earlier this year then you're gonna have fawns born next spring that will grow up coming to your plots just about every day of their lives.  I'd wager that later this month you probably gonna start to wonder what is eating all you plots.



LOL, no doubt, thanks for the encouragement Triple C.  At this point I'm beginning to wonder if I'm addicted to deer hunting or food plotting...   I spend at least half of the time I'm sitting in my stand trying to figure out how to work with the existing landscape to add to my food plot coverage next year.

I got kind of screwed the two years I've been on this property as there have been major tree removal both years.  At the same time I got severely blessed as the property owner lets me hunt it for free and even planned the eventual cabin he wants to put in and areas he wants to use around where my stand currently sits.  I honestly am not complaining as anybody would love to be in my situation.  I get dressed, walk out of my back door, and it's 350yards as the crow flies from my porch to the stand.

I do have some challenges as there are no oaks on the property, all of the bedding has been relocated next door and I have to compete with brown it's down club on one side and AG fields all over the place.  That said, I do have water.  I also have paths that have been traveled by deer for years.  Even after the massive landscape changes I have watched deer take the same exact trails they were taking before the work, regardless of what it looks like now (Assuming it didn't get completely leveled).

All in all, I'm very lucky, blessed and thankful to have a place where I can hunt, hopefully teach my son (2 in december) eventually and a neighbor who is so cool about it all.  Maybe next fall, or possibly the year after I'll have a nice Chicory/Brassicas plot like yours, or perennial clovers but until then I certainly can not complain about what I do have.  I do know I'm looking forward to January 16th as I can begin clearing all the new spots I have planned!


----------



## Triple C

*Hoping for a little rain today...*

Food plots are looking good but sure could use a little rain today.  Think we've received a little more rain since planting late September in Oglethorpe County than you guys in middle GA but needing more!

Bean field's coming along.  Used Athens Seed premium fall mix with the perimeter planted in clover.


Upper Lower plot planted in Athens Seed premium fall mix


Hour glass plot planted in buck forage oats.


Pretty nice 8 walking in and out of chicory/clover plot.



Next 2 weeks should be a magical time to be in the woods!


----------



## Canuck5

Very nice Triple C!  I'll be heading down this weekend for that magical time!  Looks like any chance of rain for us this week ..... evaporated


----------



## Amoo

we're supposed to have showers at 3pm tomorrow bringing in that cold front.  Man if it rains at 3 and brings in the front behind it, twilight hour will be magic tomorrow.  Definitely looking forward to hunting my butt off for the next week and a half.


----------



## Amoo

Well I went and sat the stand yesterday from 4-dark.  It threatened to rain the whole time i was there, then looked like it was going to pass.  Went to my neighbor's for a conversation and a beer after I climbed down, when I came out 40 minutes later it was drizzling.  So we technically got rain and the cold weather this morning should let the little we did get soak in.  I would guess maybe 2/10ths total.


----------



## fellybbob

need rain only 3/4 in since we planted. be there the 15th hoping for the best


----------



## Canuck5

*Dry, dry dry ... maybe (I stress) maybe rain next weekend*

Some of our older, more established plots are doing just ok ... planted on 9/27 and last rain on 10/14.  More rain definitely needed.


----------



## Canuck5

Some of my new perennial clover plots, on old ground are doing ok too, but still very dry.


----------



## Canuck5

Other plots still very dry, but the crimson & arrowleaf clover has surprised me.  Just starting to pop.  And I am taking Austrian Winter Peas off my list of things to plant.  These were left over from last year and I haven't see any sign of the deer using them


----------



## Canuck5

Some plots are pitiful, but still being worked hard


----------



## Canuck5

I'd like to see what some of these plots would look like with some decent moisture


----------



## Canuck5

*I'm very thankful for my "back-up"*

Perennial clover ... it's getting worked hard too!


----------



## Canuck5

*The good part about the cold snap we've had ....*

Is that it's zapped the sicklepod/coffee weed ...... but more had germinated, but that too will get killed by the cold


----------



## Canuck5

This weekend 3 deer taken ... 2 on food plots.  Bucks were definitely moving, and I saw a monster with his nose to the ground and crossed a gas line in about 4 seconds.  He was on a mission.

We have lots of camera's out all over the property and pictures have been taken for many months.  One of our members puts together a book he calls "The Hit List".   Interestingly, one of the 9 points taken this weekend, was never photographed on any of our cameras and not on the hit list ... he just decided to come of for a visit.


----------



## fellybbob

considering that we only had .75 of rain fall in our plots over the past moth or so. this is what we got. meat and potatoes doing well we just need the lord to send some rain and we pray for rain.

not bad for a green horn lol

want to thank the food plot Gurus Canuck, Triple C and all the others for their advice.


----------



## fellybbob

btw the are already feeding in those plots


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## Canuck5

Nice!!!!!  You can see the foot traffic in there!!!


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## fellybbob

you think they survive ?
should I had seed more?
any input will help.


----------



## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> you think they survive ?
> should I had seed more?
> any input will help.



If you get some rain soon, like I hope we got today, you'll be fine.  I think you have a "good" stand of what you planted, so I wouldn't add more seed.

The only thing I think you could do is add some more fertilizer, but do that before a rain comes thru.

Based on the pictures, I'd say you did good!  Mother Nature has to do her share too!


----------



## fellybbob

just check the map and the lord is good .25 to .50 in last 3 hours  but that may be all. thank you LORD


----------



## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> just check the map and the lord is good .25 to .50 in last 3 hours  but that may be all. thank you



You'll be surprised what a 1/2" of rain and cooler temperatures can do!  Keep the faith!


----------



## fellybbob

What kind of fertilizer and what rate?

if you compare triple c's  BFO to my his looks like his seed rate per acre was higher than my.  his looks thicker 
I understand that our purpose is to establish crimson plot  and I believe he only planted BFO and the circumstances to both plots are totally different ( soil type, ph, amount of rain fall, etc. )
my question is: when trying to establish a CC stand is it better to increase any of the other seed in the Meat and Tater mix  or just keep rate that was mention before on post 50.


----------



## fellybbob

Canuck5 said:


> You'll be surprised what a 1/2" of rain and cooler temperatures can do!  Keep the faith!



never lose faith.


----------



## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> What kind of fertilizer and what rate?
> 
> if you compare triple c's  BFO to my his looks like his seed rate per acre was higher than my.  his looks thicker
> I understand that our purpose is to establish crimson plot  and I believe he only planted BFO and the circumstances to both plots are totally different ( soil type, ph, amount of rain fall, etc. )
> my question is: when trying to establish a CC stand is it better to increase any of the other seed in the Meat and Tater mix  or just keep rate that was mention before on post 50.



Triple C does have a nice stand!  When you're trying to get any clover established (and it doesn't really matter which variety), you shouldn't plant your other items too thick, because they will shade the clover out.  Keep the seeding rate where it is.  If you'd have had lots of moisture, your crop would likely be a lot taller too!

Understand too that the crimson clover will preform, produce a lot of seed and die out, sometime in April, but it will give your herd a lot of good protein in the early months of next year!  If you decide to plant a summer crop, when you work the CC into the soil, next spring, it will release some nitrogen, for your next crop.  Free fertilizer!


----------



## Canuck5

As far as fertilizer goes .... I am not sure what is available in your area, but if you put 100 lbs/acre, before a rain of 19-19-19, it wouldn't hurt it a bit.


----------



## fellybbob

try to get 19 19 19 didn't find any. when we lime we put down triple 13 at 250 lbs/acre 

we have 125 lbs of 10 10 10  in camp. I will put down if the rain comes and if I'm there.

will some of the cc seed produce by the plant re germinate  in the summer or fall?

and when do we soil test again?


----------



## Canuck5

Put the rest of your 10-10-10 down if you are there before a rain ..... that will work.  

Yes, the clover will seed out and die late next spring and drop it's seed.  That seed will germinate when the soil and temperature conditions are right next fall, if you do nothing.  If you wanted to throw down more wheat, next fall, you would just very lightly disc the wheat into the ground, trying not to bury the clover seed too deep.  For your second year of doing this, I would add more clover seed as a precaution next fall, anyway.

I'd probably soil test again in February or March.


----------



## fellybbob

thanks Canuck


----------



## fellybbob

what would be good to plant in a perennial plot some that will last 3-4 years maybe even longer let keep in mind we are in southeast part of the state. sandy soil.


----------



## Canuck5

That's a tuff one, because, in general, I don't think you will be 100% satisfied with trying to grow a full plot in a perennial, down there ..... besides cereal grains are good at drawing deer in.

My first suggestion is getting your soil right, which you are working on.  Then talk with your county extension agent and get a recommendation from him, for what is suited for your land.

If I had to take a shot from the hip, I'd suggest planting a 10 foot wide perimeter, around your plots in Osceola or Louisana S-1 clovers or mix in a red clover too ... but I have no experience with them.  Then I would still go with your cereal grains in the center of your plots, as a good attractant.

http://www.caes.uga.edu/commodities/fieldcrops/forages/species/documents/WhiteClover.pdf

http://www.calwestseeds.com/docs/Cherokee Red Clover.pdf

Patriot and Durana, likely will act more like an annual down there.

Maybe someone else on this board can chime in, for a deep south, sandy, dry plot?


----------



## fellybbob

I don't what to tell you. read all that info and if I do any perennial plot I would lean more towards Durana always heard good thing about it.

will prolly do it next fall after we get our soil  right.
someone here has a durana stand maybe Gadestroyer maybe he'll chime in


----------



## Canuck5

fellybbob said:


> I don't what to tell you. read all that info and if I do any perennial plot I would lean more towards Durana always heard good thing about it.
> 
> will prolly do it next fall after we get our soil  right.
> someone here has a durana stand maybe Gadestroyer maybe he'll chime in



Oh, I like Durana and have had some good success with it.  When I spoke with Pennington's Agronomist about it, he indicated that much farther south, than where we are located, Durana would still grow, but act more like an annual, vs a perennial.  We are located between Macon and Columbus, so there might be some less expensive options to consider.

http://www.pennington.com/pc-_15-pd-_421 I am assuming you are located in the "yellow" in this picture?


----------



## jg1796

*Worried about soybeans getting tore up before the have a chance*

I'm worried about my soybean plots getting tore up before I can hunt them 1st few weeks of bow season. I'm thinking I can plant all of my food plots in soybeans in May. Then later say mid July try cutting half of them back and planting another half again that will possibly last longer into the season!? Any tips on this? I will be plating a fall plot on edges of each later in mid September.


----------



## Canuck5

jg1796 said:


> I'm worried about my soybean plots getting tore up before I can hunt them 1st few weeks of bow season. I'm thinking I can plant all of my food plots in soybeans in May. Then later say mid July try cutting half of them back and planting another half again that will possibly last longer into the season!? Any tips on this? I will be plating a fall plot on edges of each later in mid September.



Here's a thread that several us talked about soybeans and iron & clay cowpeas.  If it were me, I would plant as many acres as you can in that mix.  My first year, as you will read, I planted 1 5/8 acres and the deer didn't get in them till they were about 6 weeks old.  This year, I planted 4 acres and they were in them right from the start and the cowpeas never had a chance .... that's the bad part.  The good part, is that the deer, that stay on our property year round, weigh more than they have in years past.

Get your soil right via a spoil test .... use the proper innoculant for cowpeas and for soybeans and plant them after April 15th, while there is lots of other food available to the deer.  It will give the cowpeas a head start. 

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=754766&highlight=soybeans+iron+clay+cowpeas


----------



## Canuck5

I suggest a mix of soybeans and cowpeas because the soybeans, are the real candy and if they get nipped off below the first 2 leaves, they will not grow.  Cowpeas are not like that and they will keep growing, but still a very tasty meal for the deer.


----------



## Canuck5

Also, planting in mid April, as long as the soil temp is 60 degrees or more, may have more moisture in the ground, then if you plant mid May.  Also cowpeas are much more drought tolerant, than soybeans .... they originated in Africa.


----------



## fellybbob

is that your stand of durana wow that is beautiful.
and yes I'm in the yellow area in the map.
our farm is between Waycross and Valdosta I would say semi swamp. I would say 60% pines 40% hard woods. some of the hardwood get a foot deep flooded with a couple inches of rain and it will take 2-4 days for the water to recede  leaving 1-2 inch puddles  in pot holes. our high grounds  where our food plot and pines are, the soil stays pretty moist I'm guessing this is why our plots look as good as they do with only 0.25" of rain. those previous pictures were taken 3 weeks after planning 2.5 weeks after the rains. that why I ask for a opinion, being my first time at this I don't know how high, green or thick it should be. I read a lot and ask a lot of questions I want to learn. our region don't hold a lot of deer but I what to bring as many as I can into our farm.

thank for posting in this thread I have learn a lot.


----------



## fellybbob

jg1796 said:


> I'm worried about my soybean plots getting tore up before I can hunt them 1st few weeks of bow season. I'm thinking I can plant all of my food plots in soybeans in May. Then later say mid July try cutting half of them back and planting another half again that will possibly last longer into the season!? Any tips on this? I will be plating a fall plot on edges of each later in mid September.



send you to the right place huh?


----------



## Canuck5

Hey Fellybob ..... check your PM's or send me one


----------



## fellybbob

PM sent


----------



## Forest Grump

fellybbob said:


> what would be good to plant in a perennial plot some that will last 3-4 years maybe even longer let keep in mind we are in southeast part of the state. sandy soil.



Plant Chicory (or a mix of Patriot clover + Chicory, but I'd go heavy on the chicory in sand with moisture issues).

Fix your pH, & get your soil nutrient levels as balanced as you can first, before your plant perennials, & they will withstand drought better. If you send your soil test to UGA caes, have them run an S-2 soil test instead of the standard one, so you get more info on the soil & what you have to work with.

Whitetail institute also has a product called Extreme that you could try: it contains a plant called Small Burnett that is drought tolerant; they say deer love it, but mine don't eat it very well (preference can vary a lot on different properties though).


----------



## fellybbob

Thanks Forest. What would you recommend percentage wise for chicory and durana lbs / acre . I understand is that durana should be planted in a mix. very hard or difficult  to get a pure stand


----------



## fellybbob

weather forecast calls for 4 days of rain starting tonight


----------



## fellybbob

and we got rain thank you lord


----------



## fellybbob

and still raining. is too much rain bad for food plots  or the more the better?

Canuck it was wet hunting for you in camp this week end


----------



## Canuck5

We got rain!!  1" last Monday and probably close to 2" yesterday!!!  Thank goodness!


----------



## Canuck5

Again, we planted on 9/27/14, got 3 1/12" of rain on 10/14/14, then another 1" on 11/17/14 and until that point the conditions (moisture and temperature) were not right for some of our clover to germinate ..... but now it has.  

Once again, one of the great reasons to establish a perennial plot in the fall, is because weed germination, is limited too.  With the cold snap we have had, it has nuked most of the weeds that germinated after planting.


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...Nice to see that clover popping up!  Timely rain is a beautiful thing.


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Canuck...Nice to see that clover popping up!  Timely rain is a beautiful thing.



It sure is!  Better late than never!


----------



## fellybbob

still pouring 
is good or bad? I don't know


----------



## Canuck5

With your sandy soil, it should be ok!


----------



## Forest Grump

fellybbob said:


> Thanks Forest. What would you recommend percentage wise for chicory and durana lbs / acre . I understand is that durana should be planted in a mix. very hard or difficult  to get a pure stand



Generally, you never want to try to establish perennial clovers as a pure stand, because they start out so tiny & grow very slowly at first. So you plant them in a mix, or use a cereal grain as a nurse crop. Don't use ryegrass, as it has a very competitive root system & grows too fast, plus it's weedy later & has no food value to your deer.

Patriot clover generally outperforms Durana south of the fall line. Both were developed @ UGA by Joe Bouton & are patented by Pennington. 

Pennington has a mix under the Buckmasters line that has Patriot, Durana, Red, & crimson clover & their chicory. Both it and the IWT Extreme will have on the bag how many acres they'll plant. If you add a cereal, decrease seeding rate of both by 50% or so to leave space for the plants to develop, & kill the cereal with a grass selective herbicide in spring before it goes to seed.


----------



## fellybbob

so far between 3 and 4 inches of rain and still going


----------



## fellybbob

alot more seeds germinated do to the 4+ inches of rain but the soil still soak from low ground level. I don't know if all that humidity is going to affect or kill the plot. I saw growth but very minimal. it looks just as  it looked is my previous post picture now we are going to have some patchy frost. wonder what that's going to do. did plant a 40 square foot durana and chicory try out plot cus I could not get to the back of the property  do to the creek over flow guess i'll have to wait to do bigger plot


----------



## fellybbob

well we just got another 3 inches of rain .I wonder if deer like 
Lyly pads that may be next year's plot.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE


----------



## Canuck5

George Shu passed along a good article on choosing the correct lime!

http://growinggeorgia.com/news/2015...il&utm_term=0_4643f190f7-67752e4008-287993069

Know what you're getting!


----------



## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> George Shu passed along a good article on choosing the correct lime!
> 
> http://growinggeorgia.com/news/2015...il&utm_term=0_4643f190f7-67752e4008-287993069
> 
> Know what you're getting!



Love the data you post Canuck.  Thx!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Well, the deer are still wearing the wheat/oat/clover mix out.  Everything is lip high and probably our most cost effective food plot choice.  Easy to grow, almost fool proof and provides good nutrition.

Some of our guys did a little shed hunting this weekend and found a few nice one's, all in the food plots. Nice mass.

All our mineral sites were freshened up and still seeing a lot of use on them.  I know they are drawn in by the salt, but it is something that they need, so all is good.


----------



## Canuck5

Unfortunately, hogs are being drawn in as well.  We have had camera pictures of them for many years, but never saw any major damage, till last year.  They are here now and something we need to address.


----------



## Canuck5

Keiffer Pears are blooming!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Aww yeah it's that time !!!!


----------



## Canuck5

The Crimson Clover (and a few others) will be putting on a lot of growth over the next 45 days, but I will be coming in and working it into the soil, hopefully in the next 30 days, weather permitting, for the summer.

This will be "green manure" for me, adding organic matter and nitrogen, to the soil, for the next crop, which will be more Iron and Clay Cowpeas along with some Alyce Clover (to try) this year.  The Cowpeas do not need the nitrogen, but they will be happy to use some of it.  I'll be fertilizing with just 0-20-20, which saves me a little money, by not having the nitrogen component.

This plot has been getting reseeding Crimson Clover over the years and I did not seed that heavy last fall, so a lot came up from previous years.  Without going overboard, a "thick stand" is good weed control, in and of itself.


----------



## Canuck5

Elfiii, the Miracle Worker, got my thread unstuck ..... I was trying to post a video from www.growingdeer.tv and it locked things down.  Thanks Elfiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Just take the "infomercial part" with stride.


----------



## Amoo

Gadestroyer reminded me I needed to go check the plot amongst all the chaos, here's what's left of the wheat/rye mix.  Looks like all of the rye has drowned out or fried out.  There's still some wheat left in there, I'm thinking another 2-3 weeks out of it before I grab a soil sample and spray some glyc to prep for beans and lime/fert.  It's not the best looking, but at least they had a food source through the winter.


----------



## Canuck5

I am sure the deer appreciated what you provided!!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Man I am dying to get out and start working the soil some more . Been so darn wet up here haven't been able to do anything


----------



## Canuck5

Yes, I am watching the weather down south and it looks like rain, most of next week, too.  Makes things a little complicated for me.


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like rain almost everyday next week, down between Macon and Columbus.  Just "how much" is yet to be determined.  I really wanted to get some planting and some spraying done next weekend .... but we will see.  I thought we were going to get more, yesterday than we did, but may have only gotten 1/8".

I am not so worried about spraying glyphosate, as long as I get it done a couple hours before the rain, I'll be good.

http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/turfx/article/2000nov5.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Starting on page 31, you can see what the recommended "rates" for different weeds and crops, you can get away with, but usually, a standard mix for me, in a tank sprayer (not hand held) is 1 quart to the acre.  The primary reason is that I usually always have more than one thing to "kill" in a plot.

http://www.cropsmart.net/Products/Glyphosate/CropSmart 41 Plus Label.pdf


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Good stuff ! I used some of that big n tuff from tractor supply to kill the grasses weeds etc in my back yard seems to be taking alittle longer than I exspected I certainly put more than a quart for 26 gallons lol


----------



## T.P.

I'm getting really depressed with all this rain. I know it's good and all, but I'm on the edge of going to the Dr and getting on medication because of it.


----------



## Canuck5

T.P. said:


> I'm getting really depressed with all this rain. I know it's good and all, but I'm on the edge of going to the Dr and getting on medication because of it.



I wonder if ObamaCare would cover that?  LOL


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Hahaha ! I just got a boat and started spreading lime....


----------



## Amoo

We've had rain here in Berrien every day since the 11th.  Supposed to let up tomorrow to give me a break to mow the back yard then 100% chance for Sunday...

Good for the grass seed and Garden, not so great for the summer plot I want to put in .  Oh well, certainly not going to complain about rain.


----------



## Canuck5

Was down at the camp for a bit this weekend and emptied 4 3/4" out of the rain gauge, which we got in the last 7 days.  Everything is loving it, but I will have to incorporate a lot of organic matter into the soil, before I plant cowpeas & alyce clover .... hopefully soon, but likely not till May, fer shure.


----------



## Canuck5

*Tips for Using ATV Disk Harrows*

Thought there was some good information here!  Thanks Adam!

http://www.qdma.com/articles/tips-for-using-atv-disk-harrows


----------



## Canuck5

*Can Milorganite Repel Deer From Food Plots?*

http://www.qdma.com/articles/can-milorganite-temporarily-repel-deer-from-food-plots


----------



## Canuck5

*Food Plot Species Profile: Alyceclover*

http://www.qdma.com/articles/food-plot-species-profile-alyceclover


----------



## Canuck5

*Food Plot Species Profile: Lablab*

http://www.qdma.com/articles/food-plot-species-profile-lablab


----------



## Canuck5

*Food Plot Species Profile: Iron Clay Cowpeas*

http://www.qdma.com/articles/food-plot-species-profile-iron-clay-cowpeas


----------



## casey

Looking for advice....new farm leased in Turner County (ashburn) 300 total acres, 100 planted.   They rotate cotton and peanuts.  I live in florida and its tough to get there multiple weekendsfor all we need to do to do the plot 'right'.  Family in Cordele will let us borrow a tractor.  Anything we plant in the fields will obviously get tilled over in the spring.  What should be plant considering harvest time?


----------



## Canuck5

Well, it sounds like there is a lot of spring and summer food for the deer.  I don't have any experience with cotton, but my understanding is that the deer will eat it when its very young and tender.  Peanuts may get more usage than that.

First off, have a discussion with the farmer on whatever you decide and make sure he doesn't have a problem with it.

You could get away, without breaking the soil, by broadcasting wheat and clover (crimson and/or arrowleaf) in some shadier corners of the field, on top of the ground.  Ideally you'd want to do that before the leaves drop, but timing might be an issue.  If you can get a tractor in there to break the ground up, all the better.  Wheat/Oats and clovers can be easy to grow and almost a no-brainer.  Cheap and a good attractant.

Assuming you have a lot of trees surrounding the field, the farmer might also say that it's ok for you to plant a perennial clover, maybe 10 feet wide next to the "bush".  His yield is usually pretty low in the shadier areas.  It will hang around for a few years.  Maybe even clover and chicory.

Never hurts to get a soil test done either.

Fertilizing some of the native browse in the woods is a good idea too.  Cutting down and opening up (if allowed) areas around oak tree's can help a lot.  Take a look at what browse you can plant, outside of the field as well.

Just some thoughts ... others probably have some better options.


----------



## Canuck5

You can see where Triple C planted clover in some of the shadier area's of his plot.  I know you won't be able to plant everything like Triple C, but he gives a good example.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=831426

He use Regal Graze clover.


----------



## casey

Canuck, as you said there should be plenty of spring/summer food.  I want to make 'hunting' plots bc of this.  The guys that had it before us planted some sort of wheat that didnt come up until March....if its going to get tilled over that wont do any good.  Thats why Im not sure about a perennial like clover unless its in a hidey hole location.  Thanks!


----------



## Triple C

Casey...Are the ag fields available for you to plant in the fall?  Just want to make sure the farmer doesn't plant a cover crop in the fall.  Also, if all you have to plant is the ag fields after the farmer has harvested his cash crops, what month will you be able to plant?

If your only option is to plant the ag fields after they have been harvested and assuming that they won't be harvested until early October then I would plant a combination of cereal grains and brassicas.  Cereal grans will pop right up for early attraction.  Mix in radish and turnips and you should have a winner.  In our case, the deer devour both come November.

As Canuck stated, if the farmer doesn't plant the edges then consider planting a border of white clover.  I used Regal Graze which was developed at UGA and am amazed at how well it is doing this spring.  Deer are using it daily and I should get 3 to 5 years out of it.

Hopefully, you can find a few openings in the 1/4 to 1 acre size that you can plant.  If so, clover is hard to beat for a low maintenance, low cost plot that will produce for several years and is somewhat tolerant to shade.  Throw in a little chicory and if big enough, add brassicas in the fall for a bomb proof plot that will attract deer.


----------



## casey

Awesome, that's exactly what I needed.  Thanks so much!


----------



## casey

Im not sure when we can plant, never met the farmer (he leases farming rights from the owner).  There are multiple 1/4 acre plots left behind by the last guys.


----------



## Canuck5

*Cowpeas planted May 9th*

Planted them in dry dirt and maybe got ... maybe 1/2" of rain earlier this week.  But not everything has germinated yet, but what has come up, the deer are working on.  Planted 5 acres this year.  Everything was top dressed with Alyce Clove, but in these plots (which did not get much rain), has not germinated yet.


----------



## Vern

Fingers crossed!!  Rain should be on the way!


----------



## Canuck5

Vern said:


> Fingers crossed!!  Rain should be on the way!



I think we did get some rain!!  Not sure how much yet, but more looks like it's on it's way!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

I got some questions here for you folks. We got the corn and beans planted over the weekend. 3 acres corn 3 acres beans. At what rate would you spread milorganite on the beans ? The beans and the corn are round up ready at what height or stage do you spray round up ?  I have a 26 gallon atv sprayer how much gly would you add to it to spray the corn and beans ? Does anyone know of a place in the northwest ga area that carries eagle forage soybeans ? Need one bag


----------



## Canuck5

Milorganite spread at the rate of 240 lbs/acre .... http://www.qdma.com/articles/can-milorganite-temporarily-repel-deer-from-food-plots reapplied after a couple of weeks.  This might be trial and error, till it gets tall enough to handle the grazing.

You need to calibrate your sprayer and/or have a reasonable idea, at what pressure, what ground speed and what "tips" you're using, to apply "X" number of gallons/acre of water.  http://www.qdma.com/articles/how-to-calibrate-a-food-plot-sprayer 

A simple solution would be to measure off a known acreage (ie 1 acre, 1/2 acre, 1/4 acre), fill your tank with just water and run at a constant speed and then see how many gallons of water you use.

My sprayer, running at 10 mph, 40 psi, with the tips I have, puts out 17 gallons of water per acre.  Me knowing this and per the label instructions (and knowing what type of weeds I want to kill), I will mix anywhere between 1 quart and 2 quarts per 17 gallons, which will do one acre.  So, if I fill my 25 gallon tank and want to run a mix of 1 quart to the acre, I will add 1 1/2 quarts (25/17).  If I wanted 2 quarts to the acre, then I would add 3 quarts to that 25 gallon tank.

When to spray?  The key is to spray when you have weeds and when weeds are not too tall.  No sense in spraying when there are no weeds or when weeds are so mature, they become harder to kill.  Consider spraying when the corn/beans are 6" tall and you see a lot of germinated weeds.  

Here are some farmer "instructions" for spraying corn http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld7em004.pdf

http://appliedweeds.cfans.umn.edu/weedbull/Corn.pdf  (page 13)


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Mine is the boom less 26 gallon sprayer from northern tool. The cheapest I have found milorganite is 9.99 a 50 pound bag. I have read mixed reviews about it working to keep,deer away seems it may help,slow them down I have ruffly 3 acres of beans at the rate you mentioned it would get quite pricy to spread that every 14 days. At what speed do you travel 5 mph ? Deff gonna have to spray for grasses and weeds. I'm gonna go with you what you do since your works and we have similar equipment I guess. I may just go with a pennigton mix for my other plot and not worry about it being beans


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> Mine is the boom less 26 gallon sprayer from northern tool. The cheapest I have found milorganite is 9.99 a 50 pound bag. I have read mixed reviews about it working to keep,deer away seems it may help,slow them down I have ruffly 3 acres of beans at the rate you mentioned it would get quite pricy to spread that every 14 days. At what speed do you travel 5 mph ? Deff gonna have to spray for grasses and weeds. I'm gonna go with you what you do since your works and we have similar equipment I guess. I may just go with a pennigton mix for my other plot and not worry about it being beans



I understand about the cost!  One thing you could try with the Milorganite is to just go around the perimeter and see if that deters them.  You may have enough acreage that the deer don't wipe them out, but give them good nutrition "now".

I don't put anything out on my cowpeas and the deer worked them hard right from the start, last year and seem to be into them again this year, however, I planted more acreage this year, and added Alyce Clover to "fill in" so I might be in that sweet spot.  We'll see!  The Alyce Clover will fill in between the cowpea plants.

I plant them for the protein, to give to the lactating does and always plan to replant in the fall.  They serve my purpose and I'd like them to last till the first frost, but if they don't, that's ok too.  They also put some nitrogen back into the soil for me.

With my sprayer, my travel speed is 10 mph.  Good luck!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

That's good info Canuck ! How are your plots looking so far ? We have been getting a heap of rain we got lucky and time the rain perfect. I'm gonna mix about what you said and go about 8 or so. I'm not certain all my soybeans are round up ready so I may not spray them


----------



## Canuck5

We planted on May 9th into dry dirt ..... somehow the cowpeas germinated or at least some of them.  We got 1.5" of rain, so far this week, so they should be shooting up now!!!!!!!

Yeah, careful with the soybeans, if you do not think they are RoungUp Ready.  You might want to try a different chemical like 2,4-db http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld4JG004.pdf for the broadleaf weeds and then Clethodim & crop oil for the grasses http://www.cropsmart.net/Products/Clethodim/CropsmartClethodimLabel2008.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Don't use Clethodim on your corn, tho!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

That's some good info. The corn is deff round up ready I know some of the beans where but I'm not sure about a couple bags of them. I also mixed some lab lab Into one spot and a 1/4 of another fraid I might have to just let them go and hope for the best I seeded heavy so maybe they will choke out the grass and weeds you think ?


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> That's some good info. The corn is deff round up ready I know some of the beans where but I'm not sure about a couple bags of them. I also mixed some lab lab Into one spot and a 1/4 of another fraid I might have to just let them go and hope for the best I seeded heavy so maybe they will choke out the grass and weeds you think ?



Well, a thick stand of anything is good weed control in and of itself, but weeds & grass do have a way of getting thru.  

But, it's always nice to have a nice "clean" field to stand back and look at, but the deer really don't care.  You'll just have to work harder next year, prior to planting to get weeds under control.  Then again, there is always "the hoe!"


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> Well, a thick stand of anything is good weed control in and of itself, but weeds & grass do have a way of getting thru.  Treflan might be an option with your Soybean/lablab mix
> 
> http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...h=au/pdfs/noreg/012-10116.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
> 
> But, it's always nice to have a nice "clean" field to stand back and look at, but the deer really don't care.  You'll just have to work harder next year, prior to planting to get weeds under control.  Then again, there is always "the hoe!"


Oh lord not that darn hoe lol...we have been getting a heap of rain here lately since planting I won't be able to go back up will next weekend . Have to see what I got then.


----------



## Canuck5

LOL ... I have called "the hoe" a lot of bad names, in the day!  I hate weeds, but I have resigned myself to the fact that the deer really don't care.  We just need to manage them as best we can.  A good canopy of beans will certainly help!

Mixing multiple plants, in a planting is a great idea, in  case you have a "failure" of one, but it does make life a little more difficult when you try to find a herbicide to not harm any.


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> LOL ... I have called "the hoe" a lot of bad names, in the day!  I hate weeds, but I have resigned myself to the fact that the deer really don't care.  We just need to manage them as best we can.  A good canopy of beans will certainly help!
> 
> Mixing multiple plants, in a planting is a great idea, in  case you have a "failure" of one, but it does make life a little more difficult when you try to find a herbicide to not harm any.



That's too funny ! Your right whatever we can do that aides them above what they have is a plus. Them darn weeds sure get hard to get a handle on at times. I'm looking at planting a Pennington summer mix you planted any of that ?


----------



## Canuck5

No, I haven't, but I think others have, on here!


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> That's too funny ! Your right whatever we can do that aides them above what they have is a plus. Them darn weeds sure get hard to get a handle on at times. I'm looking at planting a Pennington summer mix you planted any of that ?



And, your 3 acres of soybeans has increased the "holding capacity" of your land, by an additional 6 deer (or so), that is in addition to the nutritional benefits you've provided!  Your corn will help with the fall stress period and give the deer the carbs to help them thru the cold season!  All good stuff, even if it has some weeds in it.


----------



## Canuck5

Just thought I would throw this out there, for forage soybeans ... if allowed to mature

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag184


----------



## Canuck5

(Eagle) soybeans and clover  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/food-plot-strategies-learning-from-experience


----------



## Gadestroyer74

That's some good info ! I haven't found any eagle  soybeans around my area. I plan to go up to the farm this weekend and inspect and put out 250 pounds of milorganite


----------



## Canuck5

Make sure you take some pictures!


----------



## Triple C

A thread worth printing and using as a reference guide.  Canuck...Thanks for posting all the technical data on this thread.  Great resource!!!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> Make sure you take some pictures!



I have been posting them in the thread I stared not sure you seem them. You know I will take some. Land owner said beans are coming up. Corn was planted Memorial Day and as of Saturday hadn't broke through yet


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> I have been posting them in the thread I stared not sure you seem them. You know I will take some. Land owner said beans are coming up. Corn was planted Memorial Day and as of Saturday hadn't broke through yet



Oh, I'm watching your thread too!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> A thread worth printing and using as a reference guide.  Canuck...Thanks for posting all the technical data on this thread.  Great resource!!!



Thanks Triple C!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

Canuck5 said:


> Oh, I'm watching your thread too!



I like watching y'all's too.. Just updated my thread. The deer got to one of my bean fields before I could get Milorganite down believe they may have wiped it out. Will give it a few to see if it comes back


----------



## Canuck5

If they nipped the beans down to a bare stem, they are probably lost, but if there are a couple leaves showing, you will be ok and they will grow back.  The deer like your work!!!


----------



## Forest Grump

*Lemme see if I can do this without breaking something:*

I tried to post a relevant video but the embed broke the thread. Grant Woods has a good episode recently called "Food Plot Strategies: learning from experience". It has some very useful tips relevant to this thread. Since linking to video is prohibited, & embedding it broke the thread, look on growingdeer.tv & watch it yourselves.


----------



## Gadestroyer74

I will see if I can find that gump. Canuck there some leaves on the lower stem and some still had leaves hopefully they will recoup and the little milorganite I added will help shooo them away for abit. We got so,e good rain yesterday I exspect all the plots to be up in the 7 days or so


----------



## Canuck5

Forest Grump said:


> I tried to post a relevant video but the embed broke the thread. Grant Woods has a good episode recently called "Food Plot Strategies: learning from experience". It has some very useful tips relevant to this thread. Since linking to video is prohibited, & embedding it broke the thread, look on growingdeer.tv & watch it yourselves.



Let's see if I can embed this


----------



## Canuck5

It's a good one and the "viney soybeans" do sound interesting!


----------



## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> I will see if I can find that gump. Canuck there some leaves on the lower stem and some still had leaves hopefully they will recoup and the little milorganite I added will help shooo them away for abit. We got so,e good rain yesterday I exspect all the plots to be up in the 7 days or so



Time will tell!  If they have left some leaves, you might just be ok!


----------



## Gadestroyer74

I heard that ! I did watch that and indeed it is interesting . Non the less it is fun to do this don't know if I would post bans again due to the money and time factor it takes and the wiped out in less than a week. May look at other options like iron n clay seems they tske more brosing pressure


----------



## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> Let's see if I can embed this



I watched this episode a couple of days ago.  I've yet to plant Eagle beans but I intend to.  Even in our 3+ acre plot, regular soybeans have a hard time.  ICP's...much better.  Seems deer allow ICPs to get up in size before they start hammering them.  When we harvest timber this summer our largest plot will be expanded to about 5 acres.  Assuming all goes as planned and we are able to stump out the clear-cut section and get it limed, we will try Eagle beans in 2016.  One thing for sure...nothing draws deer like soybeans in the summer.


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## Gadestroyer74

I had planned to plant eagle beans but was nervous to do so mainly because the price snd fear of being wiped out before getting high enough to tolerate browsing


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## Canuck5

My deer are not leaving the cowpeas alone .... last year, I counted one plant, where they nipped 24 leaves off of it, but it kept on growing.  This pic from last year and you can see how much they were worked over.


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## Canuck5

This year, I planted more acreage and they are still hitting them hard.  Even though these are just stems right now (if we get some rain), they will make more leaves and keep growing.  Not all the plot is like this, but you can definitely see how much they like them.


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## Gadestroyer74

Is iron and Clays the same as cow peas ?


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## Canuck5

Iron & Clay Cowpeas .... yes ..... the only negative is that they are not RoundUp Ready, at least for full strength RU.


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## Canuck5

I am starting to get anxious now ..... but I know that I am 60+ days out from planting.  Some of my plots will be getting the Mr. Shu Clover Trio of cereal grain, crimson, arrowleaf and red clover, along with some radishes (and maybe some chicory).

Just some added reading for Medium Red Clover https://www.qdma.com/articles/food-plot-species-profile-red-clover 

As with everything else with deer, it's a trial and error kind of thing, hoping this gives me another summer forage option.  Deer have decided that, without me fencing my plots off, or spreading milorganite or using a Gallager fence, they aren't going to let my 5 acres of  cowpeas get any height at all, therefore not letting them canopy and shade out weeds.  Although I would love too, I just can't be down at the hunting camp as often as I like to take care of the weed situation.  Life gets in the way!

I am hoping with the right mix and seeding rate of clovers, I'll keep a good % of the weeds down ... only time will tell, but I do love experiments!  This should give the deer some food, into late July, if not August, at least.

It seems to have done a good job for George, so some plots will get that this year.


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## Gadestroyer74

Is miloranite out for your peas ? I used a minimal amount and it worked wonders ! I only Applied 7 bags for a total of 3 acres . Only done it twice to and these suckers are up to my groin tall now if you can do it twice once as they start popping up and 2 to 3 weeks later it may work for you !


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## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> Is miloranite out for your peas ? I used a minimal amount and it worked wonders ! I only Applied 7 bags for a total of 3 acres . Only done it twice to and these suckers are up to my groin tall now if you can do it twice once as they start popping up and 2 to 3 weeks later it may work for you !



Milorganite is definitely an option, but my goal is keep food on the table for them and not deter them from coming into the food plots.  I just wished 5 acres would've been enough to feed them, but not destroy them.  I thought it would've been, but .....

Cowpeas were planted for them to eat, and not be around for bow season .....  so I am just going to experiment with something else next year.

The biggest complaint that I have is just "me" not getting down there as often as I'd like!!  When I retire, things will be different.


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## Gadestroyer74

I heard that ! We plan to leave the beans standing for late season food to go along with our wheat and oaks and corn. By using the miloranite as you know it kept them at bay they still ate some but it deff worked like we wanted. Now the beans are outgrowing what  the deer are eating and there are plenty for them to eat way more than I had expected. We have seen deer regularly in day light eating when we go up. I don't think we have the deer density as you either though


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## GeorgeShu

Canuck, adding rye grain to the cereal grain portion of the mix can have some good weed suppression on spring weeds.  I dont know the exact chemistry but rye grain roots emit chemicals that suppress germination in neighboring seeds. That is one reason farmers use rye grain as a winter cover crop.
We can utilize that trait by using it in our mix.  Rye grain also has a better protein profile than either wheat or oats and tolerate cold weather better than oats.


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## Canuck5

Gadestroyer74 said:


> I heard that ! We plan to leave the beans standing for late season food to go along with our wheat and oaks and corn. By using the miloranite as you know it kept them at bay they still ate some but it deff worked like we wanted. Now the beans are outgrowing what  the deer are eating and there are plenty for them to eat way more than I had expected. We have seen deer regularly in day light eating when we go up. I don't think we have the deer density as you either though



Yeah, my summer food plot goal, is to keep the deer on the property and feed them the protein the does and fawns need at that time of the year.  I don't mind them eating it all to the ground, I just hate a weedy plot, however they are eating some of the weeds in there!


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## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Canuck, adding rye grain to the cereal grain portion of the mix can have some good weed suppression on spring weeds.  I dont know the exact chemistry but rye grain roots emit chemicals that suppress germination in neighboring seeds. That is one reason farmers use rye grain as a winter cover crop.
> We can utilize that trait by using it in our mix.  Rye grain also has a better protein profile than either wheat or oats and tolerate cold weather better than oats.



It's called "alleopathy".

Allelopathy is a biological phenomenon by which an organism produces one or more biochemicals that influence the growth, survival, and reproduction of other organisms.

Basically the cereal rye will chemically suppress (a little) weed (or any seed) germination ..... brassica's will do the same thing.  Oats actually have a little bit of that too.

Planting the cereal rye will not affect the germination of another crop planted at the same time, but the chemical may/will affect germination, of other crops for a couple of weeks, after it has been terminated and or worked up in the soil.  So, following a rye crop, you should wait a couple of weeks before planting something else, just to be safe.

It's a "good thing", however my fussy deer did not prefer the taste of rye, when I tried it a few years back.  Maybe things are different now, for me?

http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/wcmc/2006/pap/Colquhoun2.pdf


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## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Rye grain also has a better protein profile than either wheat or oats and tolerate cold weather better than oats.



Rye is definitely more nutritious than wheat or oats, can germinate in colder soils and will survive colder winters than oats!


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## Canuck5

Nutrition .... so very important!  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/whitetail-antlers-and-genetics-fact-or-fiction


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## Triple C

Canuck...All us "food plotters" owe you a big THANK YOU for this thread!!!

Very useful information and resources throughout the thread.  Thx for keeping it updated!


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## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C ..... I learn stuff along the way too!


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## Canuck5

My Keiffer Pear trees, after being in the ground since January 2012, have just started to produce.  Not a huge crop, but it sure was nice to see a few of them hanging on the trees!  Next year should be better. 

These drop their fruit in the October/November time frame.


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## Canuck5

Persimmons are are looking good this year, however I have not seen, in Talbot County, a lot of acorns on the trees.  Maybe I need to look close, but ...


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## Canuck5

It's been very dry, but this first year Durana plot is dong good and being used!  The nurse crop was oats.


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## Canuck5

The only "real" things I have control over is feeding the deer as best I can and encouraging letting the deer age.  Our deer have bigger body weights and racks are increasing.   I just wished I could control the neighbors a little more, but hey, as long as it's legal, they have the right.

This is a follow up of last weeks video on the nutrition study   http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/hunting-whitetails-treestand-locations


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## Gadestroyer74

Good stuff ! Our beans are booming they are up to my groin. So thick you can't walk through them. Deer are browsing on them heavy ! Corn is grown and the silk is turning and has turned brown in some. We need some rain Sumpn fierce.


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Persimmons are are looking good this year, however I have not seen, in Talbot County, a lot of acorns on the trees.  Maybe I need to look close, but ...



I know of a place............


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## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> I know of a place............



Where the tree's are loaded, I bet!


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## Canuck5

My neighbor (and I) have been watering our lawns and we were talking last night.  He asked "How come my lawn, looks so much nicer, a few days after a rain storm, than if I was to water every week?".  Well, Mother Natures rainfall will add (a form of) nitrogen back in to the soil, for it to be converted for plants to use.  My sprinkler system doesn't do that.

The Nitrogen Cycle http://extension.missouri.edu/p/WQ252


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## Canuck5

And if you take a look at the bottom right corner of that picture, you will see "leaching moves nitrates below the root zone and out of the cycle".

Well, one way to capture that nitrogen, is thru the use of cover crops with large tap roots.  Daikon type radishes, as an example, with their long root systems will harvest some of that nitrogen and other minerals and bring them back closer to the surface.  Keeping something growing on your plots year round, is a "good thing".


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## Canuck5

They will be brought back to the surfce and when they die/decay, will be released, slowly, for the next crop.  Free nitrogen.


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## Canuck5

This brings up another thought, about working your soil too deep.  Ideally, no-tilling is a great way to improve the soil, but not all of us can (afford to) do that, however that equipment can be rented, from some places.  Working the soil will add oxygen into the ground and in effect, burn up the organic matter that is there, so we'll loose some benefit of that, but it's what we need to do.  That will occur in the top 4"-6" of soil.

If you work the soil too deep, you will be turning that top layer, down deep into the soil profile and you will loose "all" of that organic mater, all of your lime and all of the fertilizer that is there.  You will be putting all the good stuff, deep into the ground and the benefits to your crop may lag or not be there entirely.

Sub-soiling is different and a "good thing".  I'll be doing more of that.

Working the soil 3"-4" is probably more than enough.  If you plow, don't plow more than 6".  Soils do vary, but just a rule of thumb.


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## Canuck5

So, my order for my fall planting has been placed.  Things will be ready, on pallets for me, when I decide on the date sometime late September or early October.  I'll keep an eye on rainfall and predictions but we all know that will go to the wayside when life gets in the way!  LOL

There's lots of talk about when to plant these days, but my goal is to try to time the planting, to have something attractive growing for rifle opener.  In the pic below, this was one of my fall plantings and you can see, not only how small it is, but how attracted the deer are to it.  

They keep the small grains worked over till January or so.  At some point, most things we plant become unpalatable to deer, be it wheat, oats, rye, soybeans and even clover.  Young and tender is the usual preference, so I don't want to plant too soon, and have it get too tall and not be something the deer are attracted too.

Planting too early, when acorns are dropping, which I cannot compete with, will only make my food plots grow beyond the palatable state, at a bad time and it will serve no purpose to me or the deer.

Planting later, also helps me avoid damage by army worms and the chance of drought, after planting.  2 risks that I don't need to take.  But I certainly understand the desire to get in there and work up the dirt!!!!!!!


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## Canuck5

You can see that, at some point (spring time), the wheat was not attractive to the deer (but the clover was) and it was just left to grow, but they were in there, when the wheat was young and tender!   

Everything looks nice and green, but just not something the deer are interested in.


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## Canuck5

Just got my Fall 2015 plots in this weekend.  Most of them are a mix of 68 lbs of oats/acre, 5-6 lbs/acre each of crimson, arrowleaf and red clovers, topped with 2 lbs/acre of Daikon radishes.

The mix in my Herd spreader.


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## Triple C

Canuck...Same here.  Planted last week.  Added durana clover for the 1st time and hoping it performs as well as the ladino we planted last fall.  Based on some of the clover threads on here I decided to give durana a try.  Buck Forage Oats, abruzzi rye, various brassicas including sugar beets for the 1st time.

Logging operations started on our place last Friday.  Thinning our young pines and really looking forward to opening the canopy to put more browse on the forest floor.

Picked up 7 arrow heads out of one of the plots.  Must have been a camp site cause we always find worked stone in this area after discing.


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## Canuck5

Oh, wow, that is quite the find!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Plots looking good!  I use Durana a lot and it is a pretty durable clover!


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## Gadestroyer74

Looking good triple c ! Love seeing pic of folks progress


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## Canuck5

Plots planted on 9/20/15, with lots of rain.   Nibbled on oats, radishes, 3 types of clovers, deer tracks and bigfoot.


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## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Canuck...Same here.  Planted last week.  Added durana clover for the 1st time and hoping it performs as well as the ladino we planted last fall.  Based on some of the clover threads on here I decided to give durana a try.  Buck Forage Oats, abruzzi rye, various brassicas including sugar beets for the 1st time.
> 
> Logging operations started on our place last Friday.  Thinning our young pines and really looking forward to opening the canopy to put more browse on the forest floor.
> 
> Picked up 7 arrow heads out of one of the plots.  Must have been a camp site cause we always find worked stone in this area after discing.
> View attachment 850920
> 
> View attachment 850921
> 
> View attachment 850922
> 
> View attachment 850923
> 
> View attachment 850924



Triple C, if you don't mind, keep us posted on your thoughts about sugar beets!


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## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> Triple C, if you don't mind, keep us posted on your thoughts about sugar beets!



Will do.  Went down Friday for a total rain event over the weekend.  Rain gauge was at 5" when I left this morning.  Pretty much did nothing other than grill chicken halves yesterday afternoon and watched the Dawgs get slammed by Bama.  Didn't even make it around to all of the plots due to so much water on the ground.  Only took 2 pics.

This is wheat and durana clover coming along.


Lower plots planted in Buck Forage Oats.  Snapped this pic on trail leading into plot as there were deer feeding and didn't want to bump them out.


I'll post pics of the sugar beets next time I'm down.


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## Canuck5

You did the right thing!  With all the rain we've had, walking on, working up or being on wet ground, on our food plots, do a lot more damage than what we think.  

Packing the ground deep, just creates a barrier for roots to grow!  This sure has been a wet fall!!!!!


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## Canuck5

*The kid got 2 trophy's today!*

He earned both of them, putting the time and effort in, before the season started!  Biggest was 210 lbs and an 11 point.  The other a 10 point.


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## Gadestroyer74

Holy smokes ! Them is good uns


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## Canuck5

Yes they were!!!  Wish I had been down there to see them!


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## Triple C

Congrats to "The Kid"!!!  Great bucks. Love the hunt club sign!


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## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Congrats to "The Kid"!!!  Great bucks. Love the hunt club sign!



I am just tickled to death, to see the changes in our herd over the years and to see someone who works hard at it, have such great success!

BTW, "the kid" (our youngest member) made that sign himself!


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## Amoo

All this time and effort food plotting is starting to pay off.  Didn't have a single 8 on the camera in the plot last year.  They were going around it, but not into it.  So far this year it had been mostly large body 6's and 4's.  I am slightly worried though as my buck count is much much higher then my doe count, like 3-1.  Might make for a slow rut.

Between no timbering, natural browse and 2 years of planting I'm starting to draw them in.  Hoping this guy makes a mistake in the daylight.


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## Canuck5

Looks like you're doing all the right things!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Canuck5

The 3 clover mix, along with oats and radishes, are doing a good job.  We've had several nice deer taken out of the plots already this season and we're just getting started.  This year, I lightened the amount of cereal grains I used, down to 64-68 lbs of oats/acre, to give the clover a chance to come thru, and so far, it seems to be working.


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## Amoo

Canuck, I have a question for you or generally anybody who has experience with this.

For those the remember last year, I tried two different things in two separate areas in my plots.

1 plot was cereal grains and rye.  The second plot was turnips, radishes, rape...etc.

Even after season was over and the deer were grazing pressure free, they never showed any interest in the second plot.  I had radishes the size of small grapefruits and they just ignored that whole plot completely.

I know next year I want to increase my clover and try to move to 1 plot cereal grains, peas and crimson clover.  Second plot with a white clover that will keep itself going yearly.

My question is, what kind of clovers are out there, that most deer will willingly accept and what are the advantages to clover over some of the other things we can plant?


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## Canuck5

It took 3 years of me trying before my deer ate radishes.  Right now it seems their preference is oats for me and a little clover, but I have never seen the deer eat the roots of radishes (yet), only the green tops.

From an annual clover standpoint, I've mixed crimson, arrowleaf and medium red together, to try to carry my food plot thru to next August.  George Shu has had success with this and by the chart you can see where they peak.

From a perennial clover standpoint, Imperial Whitetail Clover and Durana do well, Durana being bred for Georgia's soil and drought conditions.  Mine will go dormant in the summer, but bounce back with fall rains.

The last pic is the 3 clovers, oats and radishes.  None planted too thick, to overwhelm another.


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## Amoo

Thats a great graph and explanation Canuck, thank you.

Basically if I'm understanding correctly, The perennial clover is there to be out "prime time" hunting season food.  The Oats and Wheat carry us from prime time, through the cold weather into spring, where the red and arrow take over and get us through the hot months and into the following plantings the next year?


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## Canuck5

Amoo said:


> Thats a great graph and explanation Canuck, thank you.
> 
> Basically if I'm understanding correctly, The perennial clover is there to be out "prime time" hunting season food.  The Oats and Wheat carry us from prime time, through the cold weather into spring, where the red and arrow take over and get us through the hot months and into the following plantings the next year?



That's pretty much it.  At different points in time, the oats and or wheat will become unpalatable to the deer, so will the crimson, then the arrowleaf and then the red clover will fill the "gaps".  Just trying to keep food on the table.  

The perennial will also fill some voids as well.  I always try to have something for the deer to eat and a perennial clover fills that gap, when I work up the soil to plant fall or spring crops.  You "train" the deer from a young age to "know" that this is where you come for food.

This chart helps too


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> That's pretty much it.  At different points in time, the oats and or wheat will become unpalatable to the deer, so will the crimson, then the arrowleaf and then the red clover will fill the "gaps".  Just trying to keep food on the table.
> 
> The perennial will also fill some voids as well.  I always try to have something for the deer to eat and a perennial clover fills that gap, when I work up the soil to plant fall or spring crops.  You "train" the deer from a young age to "know" that this is where you come for food.
> 
> This chart helps too


This is what I planted several years ago and now maintain.I also have added Durana and Patriot clover to the mixture


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## Canuck5

...... and they "know" where your place is!!!


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## Canuck5

3 clovers and oats.  It appears that the oats are still being nibbled on.  Clover seems to be getting the next amount of use, with just a little of the radishes being used.


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## Canuck5

Just an observation by one of our "skilled" hunters from this weekend.  He hunts a particular piece of small property that he likes and knows it pretty well.  Unfortunately it is timber company land and we have about .5% of the property in food plots.  Not a lot more that we can do there.

Then we have a larger acreage where it is private land, with about 1.25% in food plots.  I'd love to have more, but it serves our current deer population fine.

His observation on the property "he" hunts was that, he's never taken a deer that weighed more than 150 lbs.  Over the last couple of years, on the bigger piece, with more private acreage, we are taking more deer weighing at 200 lbs or more.

Genetics, Age and Nutrition are the variables everyone has.  The only thing I can try to do, is affect the deer's nutrition, starting before birth all the way up to harvest.  I want to grow the heaviest deer I can and the "rest" is out of my control.

Another side note, is the neighboring hunting club is not having a good year, where we are on record as having the best in 15, with weight and quality.


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## Canuck5

Feeding the fawns


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## Triple C

Canuck...I always look for updates on this thread.  Thanks for taking the time to post so much data and technical information.  Love all the charts.  We continue to increase planting acreage and fallow openings on our place.  Added about 3 additional acres with last timber harvest.  Last week I spent Wednesday through Saturday morning hunting at the farm with my sons and a friend from out of state.  Afternoon sits are always on the edge of a food plot and seeing doe groups filter into the plots is a joy.  Keep the doe groups happy and the bucks come searching.

Son gave a pass to this nice 8 pt. chasing a doe around one of our plots.  He took a break and started munching on ladino clover.  Many pics of him throughout the summer and hoping he makes it thru the season to add a little more mass to his frame.


Saturday morning, this one didn't get a pass.  Came in dogging a doe from our swamp.  Son was hunting about 80 yds from one of our food plots with doe headed in that direction with buck in tow.



Based on rack size and mass, we assumed he was 4.5.  After pulling the jawbone it looks to be 3.5.  Largest 3.5 we've taken yet.  Are we making a difference by adding nutrition throughout the year?  I like to think so.  I know one thing for certain - We have plenty of doe groups using our property which wasn't the case when we started 5 years ago.  Very selective doe harvest the past 4 years is paying dividends.  Multiple doe groups = cruising bucks come the rut.


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## Canuck5

Good job Triple C!  You probably have your neighbors wondering where all their deer went!!!!    

Feeding your deer right increases their rack & body size and increases the carrying capacity of your property as a whole!  More deer ... bigger deer .... a win/win!


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## Gadestroyer74

Awesome triple c ! We need to make Canuck the food plot moderator ! Lol well done and congrats to your son on a great buck


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## Canuck5

Radishes are showing more signs of being used now.  Still growing big and pulling up nutrients from deep in the soil.  When the radish itself dies and decays, it will release those nutrients and make them available, in the top 6", for the next crop.  Free fertilizer.


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## Canuck5

The warmer temperatures we've had made our clover grow very well this fall and also showed a lot of use by the deer.  This episode explains a little bit of "why".

http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/missouri-bow-hunt-and-iowa-opening-day-shotgun

(I'd try to embed this episode, but it always locks up the thread)


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## Canuck5

Durana is some pretty tuff stuff ..... right where we drive over it, it just wants to keep coming back.


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## Canuck5

There's never a bad time to pick rocks ..... darned things.  We pulled these out and used them to fill some large ruts on another property.


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## Canuck5

Our food plots are really "cover crops" in the eyes of farmers, when we mix several different seeds together.  They benefit the soil and they benefit the critters.  We can do good for both and if planned right, we can save ourselves some fertilizer money.


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## Canuck5

As I was thinking about our trail camera survey for this year, I found this interesting article.

https://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios


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## Canuck5

While I was looking for some nutritional value of different forages, I came across this chart.  CP, crude protein is important, but probably TDN, total digestible nutrients is probably the more important number.


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## Canuck5

Then I found this information.  Getting back to nutrition and what it can do for your deer herd.

https://www.qdma.com/articles/when-doe-fawns-breed-its-a-good-sign


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## Triple C

Canuck...You should be nominated as the food plot moderator!!!  Appreciate the time you take to post such great info on this site!


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## Canuck5

LOL, thank you Triple C ..... Not sure I could handle all that responsibility!


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## Canuck5

We freshened up our mineral sites this weekend and the deer seem to appreciate it.


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## Canuck5

Interesting video on improving the soils, with a food plot perspective  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/early-spring-scouting-food-plots-and-turkeys


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## Canuck5

It's that time of the year, to think about the other component, of a deer's nutrition, for their "stressed" times of the year.  Native forage!

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/land-management/deermanagement_dm_0903deerfactory/

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_002336.pdf


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## Canuck5

The deer, leaving the oats alone since last December have headed out now.  When the seed heads mature they will give critters a little more to eat.  The white flowers are what is left of the Daikon Radishes that have matured and set seed.


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## Canuck5

Arrowleaf, Crimson and Medium Red Clovers are coming on strong now


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## nrh0011

Amoo said:


> Ok Canuck, you re-posted this in my thread and after really spending some time thinking about it, I'd like to have a nerdy discussion about it.  I'm not doubting your source here, but the numbers for Phos just don't make sense to me.
> 
> Nitrogen and K track about how I would expect, you gain a moderate percentage more use per unit of pH change AND that change is relatively linear.  Then we have Phos, again relatively linear gains, be it small, then suddenly the flood gates open at some magic point between 6-7 and we get it all?  Just doesn't seem right.



In our clayey soils the majority of phosphorus is fixed yet unavailable, phosphorus is taken up as PO4 with a 3- charge. So, back to the chart when our soils are very acidic they have a positive charge (due to the logarithmic relationship). This causes phosphate to be a strongly retained anion, and as we lime we slowly lower the charge of our soil to the neutral range/net negative charge. This causes phosphate to be plant available while also allowing our soils to retain the basic cations we need such as Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium because they are all positively charged and now can bind to our now negatively charged soils. Hope this helps


----------



## Canuck5

nrh0011 said:


> In our clayey soils the majority of phosphorus is fixed yet unavailable, phosphorus is taken up as PO4 with a 3- charge. So, back to the chart when our soils are very acidic they have a positive charge (due to the logarithmic relationship). This causes phosphate to be a strongly retained anion, and as we lime we slowly lower the charge of our soil to the neutral range/net negative charge. This causes phosphate to be plant available while also allowing our soils to retain the basic cations we need such as Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium because they are all positively charged and now can bind to our now negatively charged soils. Hope this helps



Good info.!  Thanks!!!


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## nrh0011

Canuck5 said:


> Good info.!  Thanks!!!



Thanks, I should have clarified that was in reply to post 99. Sorry i read through this entire sticky this morning. Y'all have a good thing going here.


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## nrh0011

fellybbob said:


> is there a map showing diferent types of soils (clay, sandy etc) for the state of Georgia ( state wide or county wide ).
> 
> uga most have some type of map somewhere
> 
> is that somewhere mention on a soil test.




replying to post 22, you can do this on the web soil survey by creating an area of interest at a specific site. It will generate a detailed soils map for you. If you need any help doing this just shoot me a pm, and I would be glad to help. As far as soils maps for statewide areas thats a much broader scale of classification.


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## Canuck5

Fer Shure!! One compromise I will typically make, is planting corn for a screen. I have a few plots that I need to add some height to at one end or around some perimeter, to give the deer a bit more of a comfort level to enter the plot.

Last year, I went ahead and just broadcast deer corn, like I have done in the past, but didn't check germination on it and I got very few plants out of the ground. This year, I did a rag-doll test on them https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag182 to check germination and got 70% germination. Not sure what kind of ears it will produce, but I planted it for screen, so I am hoping for height.

I just broadcast it by hand, a little heavy, and covered it, so I should get a screen this year.


----------



## Canuck5

Crimson is almost done, a few Arrowleaf clover flowers popping up, next I should see some medium red clover in 30 days or so?


----------



## nrh0011

man that crimson is pretty stuff ain't it? such a great forage too


----------



## Canuck5

It is!!  Waiting to see the transition to the arrowleaf and then the medium red.


----------



## Canuck5

"A Management Guide for Invasive Plants in Southern Forests"   Lots of interesting things in there!  Thanks Crakajak!

http://www.srs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_srs131.pdf


----------



## GAGE

Looking good. My current problem is lack of rain, every opportunity seems to skirt our place and FarmLogs has us down 30% over last year.
My clover plots are starting to look like July/August clover and it is just May.


----------



## Canuck5

Well Gage, I hope you've gotten some rain.  Our club is pretty dry, dry dry, now as well!  So dry that I put in some flat ditches, that are typically wet spots ..... while it was dry


----------



## Canuck5

Did my best to get rid of those ruts on the roads.  They were rattling my teeth.


----------



## Canuck5

The Durana plots are feeling the drought too.  Some grass is coming thru, but I am not doing anything to this (loading dock) plot, since this particular property is scheduled for thinning, likely in the next 30 days.  I see more sub-soiling in my future.


----------



## Canuck5

The crimson, arrowleaf, medium red, clovers, along with oats are radishes (radishes are long gone) are still supplying some food.  These plots with oats left standing are being used for bedding as well as food.


----------



## Canuck5

So far, so good with this mix of seeds.  Right now, it's kept weeds at bay, so I didn't have to spray.  I didn't have to plant something for the summer and is feeding the does and fawns (or soon to be).  No Kudzu Bugs either.

Maybe in another 30 days, things might be different, but we will see!


----------



## Canuck5

My corn screen is up and growing.  Deer and turkeys are nibbling on it, but I think I will be ok with this hand broadcast seed.


----------



## Canuck5

The deer are still wanting their minerals .... just too darned dry.  I'll freshen that up the next time I am down.


----------



## SakoL61R

Canuck. Your plots are looking good.  Sure wish I could send some rain from ts Bonnie to you.   My place in Screven has been inundated this weekend.  Over 5 inches so far....


----------



## Canuck5

SakoL61R said:


> Canuck. Your plots are looking good.  Sure wish I could send some rain from ts Bonnie to you.   My place in Screven has been inundated this weekend.  Over 5 inches so far....



Oh wow, I can't even imagine that!!!!!!


----------



## GAGE

We got more from an evening dew than from Bonnie.    And so, I continue to water my DCO's every week.
High note is that my saw tooth oaks look like they will bare their first nuts this year.


----------



## Canuck5

GAGE said:


> We got more from an evening dew than from Bonnie.    And so, I continue to water my DCO's every week.
> High note is that my saw tooth oaks look like they will bare their first nuts this year.



That's great!  How old are they?


----------



## Canuck5

I made a call out to the Oregon State Clover Commission and they gave me the name of a lady who handles all the clover at their experimental station.  We talked for a good long time and although she wasn't an animal expert, she did grow up in Kentucky and knew about food plotting and what we are trying to do.

Oregon is where the majority of our Crimson, Arrowleaf and Red Clovers come from and those are the clovers she's primarily familiar with.  

Making a long story short, one of her recommendations, for my situation of oats, crimson, arrowleaf and medium red, was to mow part of that plot or part of my production, around April first till the 15th.  The reason, is that it will set the Medium Red Clover back by 30 days and I would gain those 30 days, further into August, helping to feed the deer.  The mowing needed to be done, before the red clover started making seed heads.

They (in Oregon) typically will clip their clover fields the middle of May, so that it sets their production back, but allows the clover seed to all mature at the same time.

It will hurt both the crimson a little and the arrowleaf the most, but I would gain more "feeding" time for the deer, a little later in the year.  It sounded like a good idea, and something I will try next year, so I thought I would pass it along.


----------



## Canuck5

Some other tidbits that we all sort of know is that crimson, with it's high hard seed count, will reseed pretty easily.  Arrowleaf will reseed a little and the Medium Red, very little.  I'll adjust my seeding rates this fall.


----------



## Canuck5

I also mentioned to her that, assuming these plots are "done" the middle of August, I'll be working the ground up and get things ready for my fall planting.  With some of my plots, with good stands of clover, she said, whatever nitrogen that is available for the next crop, would likely be available sometime in early October.  She suggested just a little nitrogen fertilizer would be necessary to give the crop a little boost.  No more than 20 lbs/acre of actual nitrogen.

Too much nitrogen will also make the grains grow too quickly and get out of the "tender" stage, the deer prefer.

And then she harped on lime    LOL, she couldn't say enough about getting our ph up into the 6.5 range.  It's worth it!


----------



## Canuck5

My goal here is to try to figure out the most cost effective plot I can produce, that extends as close to my fall planting as possible, with no interruption in a food source.  My summer plots got to the point of me not being able to produce enough acreage, to keep the deer from wiping them out, and I had "times" where there was no food available from my plot.

So far, these plots seem to have given me "continued service" for the deer, from last fall till now.  If I had lots more acreage, I probably would be adding some summer plots in there, but for what I have, I am content ..... at the moment.  

Just looking at what I "have" today, my Durana is feeling the heat and will likely go dormant this summer.  In comparison, the other plots, today, have a lot more forage to offer.  I like perennial clovers, but I am getting greater tonnage from the clover mix.  Just an observation.


----------



## GAGE

Canuck5 said:


> That's great!  How old are they?


They are late bloomers, as they are pushing 8 years old.


----------



## GAGE

I have not used Yuchi  clover in several years. This past season I used crimson and medium red and have been pleased, but I am definitely adding Yuchi back to the mix for this fall.


----------



## Canuck5

I think that's a good idea!  Also, just another side note, on the medium red clover, it is supposed to have a very long tap root, which will benefit in the drier summers, plus it also aids in breaking up the soil.  2 good things!


----------



## GeorgeShu

Been giving thought to the suggestion of mowing the mixed clover plots during late April, early May.  I can see that strategy from a seed production point of view but having a little difficulty seeing how it would work for us plotters in the south.

If we mow at that time frame we may well lose the reseeding from the late crimson and hamper the arrowleaf just to hope to benefit the medium red clover later in the year.  Wouldn't mowing the arrowleaf as it enters in reproductive stage impair seed production there?  It has been a good reseeder for me that last several years.

If we get timely rains in July and August we should still get good growth from the medium red.  If we don't get those rains it would struggle anyway.

Just my thoughts.  Maybe try it on a portion of one plot to see what impact it has.

By the way, my plots look similar to yours shown in your post above, but maybe not quite as lush.  Deer still eating and bedding in them regularly.  I used rye this year and like the vertical cover it provides.


----------



## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Been giving thought to the suggestion of mowing the mixed clover plots during late April, early May.  I can see that strategy from a seed production point of view but having a little difficulty seeing how it would work for us plotters in the south.
> 
> If we mow at that time frame we may well lose the reseeding from the late crimson and hamper the arrowleaf just to hope to benefit the medium red clover later in the year.  Wouldn't mowing the arrowleaf as it enters in reproductive stage impair seed production there?  It has been a good reseeder for me that last several years.
> 
> If we get timely rains in July and August we should still get good growth from the medium red.  If we don't get those rains it would struggle anyway.
> 
> Just my thoughts.  Maybe try it on a portion of one plot to see what impact it has.
> 
> By the way, my plots look similar to yours shown in your post above, but maybe not quite as lush.  Deer still eating and bedding in them regularly.  I used rye this year and like the vertical cover it provides.



You're absolutely right, George!  What she was suggesting, was that it would be a shame to mow "all" the plots (all the clover) and lose that tonnage of forage, at a critical time of the year, for the deer.  That would be such a waste, but what she was thinking, was to just mow "a little bit" of my overall acreage, at that time, which would extend the medium clovers production, that was mowed, by an additional 30 days.

I'm assuming that along about the middle of August, most of my plots will be less useful to the deer, but if I had a small portion of medium clover, still wanting to produce, I would gain that little extra forage at a time when the deer are a little more stressed.

Just looking for ways to "tweak" this type of food plot, just a little more.  BTW, thank you for suggesting it last year and trying it.  It appears to be a pretty good plot!


----------



## Canuck5

So, if I had 10 acres in this "mix", what she was thinking was to maybe mow 1 acre, just to help provide a little food, a little later in the year.  Something I will give a try.

I do have a couple of strips that were mowed 3 weeks ago, that I will keep an eye on, to see what they do.


----------



## GeorgeShu

Let us know what your results are on the portion that was mowed, will be an interesting experiment.

I will soon be clear cutting the pines on my place.  That will give me a chance to rearrange some of my food plots.  I plan on keeping some of them pretty much as is but will add at least one more new Durana clover plot.  I will be replanting pines this winter.

The existing plots are on old loading decks and not necessarily located for best habitat/soils and hunting acess.  Will try to remedy that!  Also plan on having wider access roads and plotting along side them with linear plots where appropriate.

Exciting times at my place!


----------



## Canuck5

A new adventure!!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

June 19, 2016, approximately 45 days since this strip was mowed.  There is some usage in the strip, but it looks like greater usage is in the tall stand.  Where it was mowed, definitely more weeds are showing thru.


----------



## Canuck5

The thick stuff, for most of the plots is looking good.  I wonder with the long tap root of the red clover if it is helping.  We've only had about 1" or rain in the last 45 days or so.


----------



## Canuck5

Right now, there is no comparison between this plot and my Durana plots.  Durana is still green, but not much growth going on.  Too hot and dry.


----------



## Triple C

Looking good Canuck.  Clover is a food plotter's best friend.  So much return for the investment.  Just keeps on giving!


----------



## GeorgeShu

Good looking plots you have there. I assume the taller clover is the arrowleaf and you got plenty of blooms in the unmowed portion = seed production.  Maybe the mowed portion will bloom later.  The shading of the taller growing arrowleaf gives some free weed control it would appear.  I have found that to be true in my clover mix plots as well.
Hope you get some rain soon and that the red clover can take off and carry you into early fall.
Good work and great pics!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Looking good Canuck.  Clover is a food plotter's best friend.  So much return for the investment.  Just keeps on giving!



I agree 100%.  I'm tickled to have this much food at this time of year, with a fall planting!


----------



## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Good looking plots you have there. I assume the taller clover is the arrowleaf and you got plenty of blooms in the unmowed portion = seed production.  Maybe the mowed portion will bloom later.  The shading of the taller growing arrowleaf gives some free weed control it would appear.  I have found that to be true in my clover mix plots as well.
> Hope you get some rain soon and that the red clover can take off and carry you into early fall.
> Good work and great pics!



I think you're right George!  Lots of arrowleaf, the crimson is gone and waiting to see what the Medium Red is going to give me over the next 60 days!  It will be a little while till I get back down there.  The deer are still definitely using it!


----------



## GAGE

Canuck even with the lack of moisture,  your plots are looking great. Good job!

Very little rain, and a lot of hog damage has my clover plots looking horrible.


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks!  Sure hope we both get more rain soon!!!


----------



## Canuck5

I have to give a shout out, to one of our youngest members, who shot both of his 2015 bucks within seconds of each other.  Then he got his story written up in North American Whitetails.  Good job Adam!!


----------



## Crakajak

Congrats to Adam. I know he was excited about that day.


----------



## Canuck5

Crakajak said:


> Congrats to Adam. I know he was excited about that day.



He's still pretty proud of it, as he should be!!!!


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...That's pretty special right there.  Congrats to Adam!  That article and magazine will become a family treasure for sure.  Thx for sharing.


----------



## Canuck5

Yes it will!  He puts the time in scouting .... identifies, by camera the bucks on the property ..... he does his homework!


----------



## Canuck5

*Mowing strips to release the red clover in May*

Well, I think it would be a good idea "if" I had close to a pure stand of medium red clover, or if I wanted to come back and spray to kill grass and weeds.  Otherwise, I think it is probably going to create more work for me, than what the deer would benefit from.  You can see the grass coming thru now.

We did have 1 1/2" of rain, the end of June (thankfully)


----------



## Canuck5

I ran deer and turkey out of the plot as I went in, so it's definitely being used and where everything was left thick, there is definitely less weeds/grass.


----------



## Canuck5

Some plots are better than others, but all are being used.  I think for me, this blend is a keeper!


----------



## Triple C

Update on white clover getting it done year round.  We've had plenty of rain on our place this year and the clover just keeps pumping out around the perimeter of this field.


----------



## Canuck5

Your clover never missed a beat!!!!!!!  It was always there for "them".


----------



## Canuck5

We had a fair amount of rain so far this month and I think it had kept the Medium Red Clover going.  Some plots where the stand was thin, is now overtaken with some weeds, but all in all I think the mix has fed the deer till now!


----------



## Canuck5

And some of my Kieffer Pears, planted 4 years ago are producing now!!


----------



## Canuck5

10 reasons why your food plots fail


----------



## Canuck5

NRCS: Seedbed preparation and seed to soil contact

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/wapmctn6330.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Deer diet by season ...


----------



## Canuck5

Keeping deer on your property


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Triple C

Good stuff as always Canuck.  If I had only one thread to read on this entire forum it would be this thread.  Pretty much covers anything and everything about growing food for deer.


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C!


----------



## Canuck5

How to grow the best food plots for Whitetails http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/how-to-grow-the-best-food-plots-for-whitetails


----------



## Canuck5

Some advertisement in here, but .... 45 days before first frost .... tender and succulent


----------



## Amoo

Finally dried out enough from the Tropical-Hurricane that I had the opportunity to go spray today, 2 weeks and it's time to put seed down.  Hoping for some nice new growth right at open of rifle season.  My peas did decent this summer.


----------



## Canuck5

We're still looking for some rain ..... maybe next week!


----------



## Crakajak

Dry as a bone at my place.Hopefully I will finish spraying some plots and bushhog some others. Might even plant some.Suppose to get "some" rain in the next several days and start cooling off.


----------



## Amoo

Picked up my seed this year, VERY excited about what I got.

Got Some Crimson Clover, Iron & Clay Peas and Coker Oats.  Not entirely sure yet what ratio I'll be mixing at year, but much more excited about this then the cheaper pre-mixes I have been getting.

Lady at the seed store also brought in Trophy Radishes this year and asked me if I had tried them.  I explained to her the success, or lack there of, I had with radishes two years ago, so she gave me like a 1/4lb on the house and told me just to try them and see how they do.

Either way if anybody has any advice on ratios for my 3 mains I'm all ears.

If I remember Canuck's chart right I should have everything I need for the full winter, now I just gotta mix it right.  Will be planting around the 1st.


----------



## Canuck5

You can use this as a starting point.  See how it does and make your refinements next year!  Add some, subtract some, etc..  BTW, it took my deer 3 years to get the taste for radishes and now I will always have them!


----------



## Canuck5

Well, this appears to be the end of my medium red clover.  Deer still using it and I am surprised at how well it did, with how dry it's been.  This is a pic of my best plot.  Some of the others were over taken with weeds and I turned them under.  It worked out well for me.


----------



## GeorgeShu

That is a great result providing food into mid September. Probably would continue until killed by frost. 
Red clover has its place in southern foodplotting.
Good work.


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...That red clover still getting it done!  This continues to be such a great resource thread on this site.  Glad it's a sticky.  Best thing we could do when anyone posts questions about planting is refer them to this thread as it has all bases covered.

We still haven't planted.  Plan on planting between the 26th and the 1st of October.  Will post up some pics afterward.


----------



## Amoo

Canuck5 said:


> You can use this as a starting point.  See how it does and make your refinements next year!  Add some, subtract some, etc..  BTW, it took my deer 3 years to get the taste for radishes and now I will always have them!



Good stuff as always, TY Canuck.  I was thinking 2-1 for Oats to clover, what about the I&C Peas though?  I know they're not the same as an Australian Winter Pea, but would 2-1-1 be a good starting point ya think?

2-1-1 = Oats-Clover-Peas ?

And yeah you guys have all told me 3 years on the radishes.  I only have a few handfuls this year so I'm just going to sprinkle them in lightly here and there and see if they get any utilization at all.

Now thinking ahead, and assuming this mix works like this and they actually start to think about the radishes this year, 2-1-1-.5 or 2-1-1-.25 with Radishes being the last?

Just don't want anything choking anything else out.


----------



## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> That is a great result providing food into mid September. Probably would continue until killed by frost.
> Red clover has its place in southern foodplotting.
> Good work.



Thanks, George!  But it all started with you breaking ground on it last year!!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Canuck...That red clover still getting it done!  This continues to be such a great resource thread on this site.  Glad it's a sticky.  Best thing we could do when anyone posts questions about planting is refer them to this thread as it has all bases covered.
> 
> We still haven't planted.  Plan on planting between the 26th and the 1st of October.  Will post up some pics afterward.



Thanks Triple C!  Please post your pics!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Amoo said:


> Good stuff as always, TY Canuck.  I was thinking 2-1 for Oats to clover, what about the I&C Peas though?  I know they're not the same as an Australian Winter Pea, but would 2-1-1 be a good starting point ya think?
> 
> 2-1-1 = Oats-Clover-Peas ?
> 
> And yeah you guys have all told me 3 years on the radishes.   I only have a few handfuls this year so I'm just going to sprinkle them in lightly here and there and see if they get any utilization at all.
> 
> Now thinking ahead, and assuming this mix works like this and they actually start to think about the radishes this year, 2-1-1-.5 or 2-1-1-.25 with Radishes being the last?
> 
> Just don't want anything choking anything else out.



I&C Cowpeas will be a great early attraction, but will die out at first frost.   Not sure how many pounds of them you got, but 15 lbs per acre would be a good start.  They should hit them early.  Winter peas will continue on thru the winter.

My mix was 50-60 lbs of Oats, 8 lbs of each of the 3 clovers, crimson, arrowleaf and medium red, plus 2 lbs of radish.  The 8 lbs of each, for me, just worked out for the number of acres I plant and buying 50 lbs bags.  Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Canuck5

Dry, dry, dry, dry.  What should we do?  Keeping waiting?  Plant or switch up our game?

Most of our hunting properties are not close enough for us to go scratch the soil, see what it's like or be able to jump in there 24 hours before a good rain to plant.  I know I can't work that out.

So, something to consider, is to switch up our game a little and just get some wheat in the ground.  Fertilize well and plant a little heavier.  Then after a time, when hopefully things look a little better with rainfall, come back in and top dress our smaller seeds like clovers and brassicas.  Not ideal, but an option.


----------



## Amoo

I know some folks have experience here because I remember seeing some threads here and there over the past few years and I remember QMDA site having a good comparison, but can somebody with a bit more knowledge then me on the subject address the difference between BFO and Cokers?

It was my understanding that the BFOs did better in the harsh cold, but most of my searching on the nets yielded results from places where it gets a lot colder then here in South GA.  

So do one of you guys have some good info on oat vs oat vs oat?


----------



## Canuck5

You can hunt around for some opinions, but they are more cold tolerant, produce a little more tonnage and I believe they have a higher % of protein than standard oats.  

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=566078

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=645698


----------



## Amoo

Canuck5 said:


> You can hunt around for some opinions, but they are more cold tolerant, produce a little more tonnage and I believe they have a higher % of protein than standard oats.
> 
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=566078
> 
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=645698



Thanks Canuck as always.  Unfortunately I had already found those links.  Didn't know if there was anything more scientific out there other then just anecdotal.  

Seems from the information in both threads, that in the presence of other Oats the BFO seem to be a bit more palatable and I THINK it's been determined they produce slightly more tonnage.

The two questions I'm left with though are:

1.  Is there any difference in content ie proteins....etc?

2.  I saw one mention of them being more drought resistant, is there anything to substantiate the single claim about that I saw?


----------



## Canuck5

That, I don't know, that there is any actual test results vs "claims".


----------



## Forest Grump

Amoo said:


> Thanks Canuck as always.  Unfortunately I had already found those links.  Didn't know if there was anything more scientific out there other then just anecdotal.
> 
> Seems from the information in both threads, that in the presence of other Oats the BFO seem to be a bit more palatable and I THINK it's been determined they produce slightly more tonnage.
> 
> The two questions I'm left with though are:
> 
> 1.  Is there any difference in content ie proteins....etc?
> 
> 2.  I saw one mention of them being more drought resistant, is there anything to substantiate the single claim about that I saw?



Protein content in cereal grains is determined by fertility (particularly Nitrogen & Sulfur) & by the growth stage of the plant. Deer are not seeking protein in Fall, however.

There are prior threads on all this if you search the forum:
For ex:


http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=811278&highlight=buck+forage+oats



[


----------



## Canuck5

Just some after the season tractor maintenance ideas!

https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/article/2016/11/21/tractor-maintenance-tips-season


----------



## Canuck5

Just for reference, since we're all waiting for our fall food plots, to finally get going ....... and we're expecting a couple of days down in the 20's at night.  Wheat & cereal rye should be fine, oats, will depend on just how cold it gets.

Most clovers can be frost seeded, so there's not too much worry there, with the exception of crimson. 

We've been worrying about the dry weather and now we're worrying about the cold!  Can't win!


----------



## Canuck5

For oats,


----------



## Canuck5

After 85 days, without rain, the seed sitting in dry ground and after 2 nights of high 20's temperatures ........ Miracles do happen!

This was after 3 1/2" of rain a week ago


----------



## Canuck5

Well guided by divine intervention (T.P. and TripleC) I created my first pond, in their honor.  Bring on the rain now!  It's probably 24" deep, at it's deepest point.  Nothing too elaborate, but hopefully something that will help the deer (and deer hunters) a little.

Did it all with a 3 point hitch, multi-position blade.


----------



## Canuck5

And, the pond is at a low spot of this food plot.  It's one that I got impatient with and trying to hedge my bets, waiting for rain, this fall.  The clover is pretty thick in there now, so we will see what happens!


----------



## Canuck5

Most of the plots are looking like this now.  90 days late, but I think they will provide great spring and summer food.


----------



## Triple C

That didn't take long!  Bet that thing is full after next rain.  Just came back from farm today and should have taken a pic of waterhole on food plot.  It was full.  If water drains naturally to that corner you gonna have water year round in that thing.


----------



## Canuck5

Yeah, probably took about 1 1/2 hours.  My plan is to go back and check it out next time I am down there and likely do a little more grading, once I see where the water is coming from the most and add a little encouragement!!

Can't wait to see the usage!


----------



## Triple C

*Pear tree pruning*

Pruned 18 pear trees yesterday.  This one took a while as it hadn't been pruned in 2 years.  They've about reached the size where pruning will come to an end.

Before pruning pic.


Almost after pruning pic.  Did a little more after i took pic.


Also planted and tubed bout 20 chestnut and sawtooth bare roots.


----------



## Canuck5

It's looking good Triple C!  Pruning and planting!  A good time of year to do it!


----------



## Canuck5

Our property that is "owned" by our club President, he's had some timber cut and now they are cleaning things up.  Dozer with a root rake came in, stumps were pulled and this last weekend I spread some "leftover" wheat/oats mix, just to help control erosion for the time being.  Lime will be brought in next and will eventually get worked in, for a spring planting of something.


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...Just had that done on my place and man is it a lot of work!  Had a large excavator and dozer on the property to do just what you're showing above.  Got 3 big piles of stumps and slash ready to torch in the next couple of weeks.  And, planted rye for the same reason you stated...get something green with roots going.  Gotta get it limed ASAP.

That is gonna make one heck of a food plot when you get finished.  Post up progress pics.  Maybe plant a few fruit trees in groups in the corners.  I've got B118 root stock waiting to get grafted in March with horse apple and yates.


----------



## T.P.

Nice water hole! Mine has so many tracks it isn't funny and I put a camera on it this weekend to see what's using it. Mine isn't holding water like I think it should for some reason. 100% clay base but it seems to have leaked down at least 6 inches over the last week. I'm not sure what to make of it right yet.


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Canuck...Just had that done on my place and man is it a lot of work!  Had a large excavator and dozer on the property to do just what you're showing above.  Got 3 big piles of stumps and slash ready to torch in the next couple of weeks.  And, planted rye for the same reason you stated...get something green with roots going.  Gotta get it limed ASAP.
> 
> That is gonna make one heck of a food plot when you get finished.  Post up progress pics.  Maybe plant a few fruit trees in groups in the corners.  I've got B118 root stock waiting to get grafted in March with horse apple and yates.



I shall do it!  The plan is to leave about 50% of what's cleared for food plots and the other 50% will be planted with pears, crab apples, dunstan chestnuts, persimmons and such over the next couple of years.  The first plantings will take place in the next 30 days.

We'll keep the area "cleaned up", where we place the trees, with a bush hog, to keep the sweet gums at bay!

Another small pond will likely go in at what appears to be a natural wet spot.  Lots of new things going on!


----------



## Canuck5

T.P. said:


> Nice water hole! Mine has so many tracks it isn't funny and I put a camera on it this weekend to see what's using it. Mine isn't holding water like I think it should for some reason. 100% clay base but it seems to have leaked down at least 6 inches over the last week. I'm not sure what to make of it right yet.



I think if you go to a "well drillers store", you can pick up some sodium bentonite http://www.farmersassociation.com/farm-supply/miscellaneous/bentonite-clay-50lb-bag and add it, which should help seal any leaks you have.

I like the idea of "lots of tracks"!  I also put in a new mineral site about 50 feet away from it, so we shall see!


----------



## Canuck5

Since we're talking watering holes ....


----------



## Canuck5

Some more


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> I think if you go to a "well drillers store", you can pick up some sodium bentonite http://www.farmersassociation.com/farm-supply/miscellaneous/bentonite-clay-50lb-bag and add it, which should help seal any leaks you have.
> 
> I like the idea of "lots of tracks"!  I also put in a new mineral site about 50 feet away from it, so we shall see!



After last summer I am thinking a tote cut down will work for me since I have well water available.


----------



## Canuck5

That sounds like a good idea!  Doesn't have to hold much!!


----------



## GAGE

My water hole is leaking, so I hope that the 200lbs of bentonite that I bought will fix the problem.


----------



## Canuck5

GAGE said:


> My water hole is leaking, so I hope that the 200lbs of bentonite that I bought will fix the problem.



Give us a report back!  Ideally, I think working it into the top layer is best.


----------



## Canuck5

A subject I know so little about ........


----------



## Forest Grump

That's not a good reference for Fruit Trees planted for wildlife; that tree is gonna wind up looking like a peach tree. 

Here is a better reference:

http://centuryfarmorchards.com/library/library.html

http://centuryfarmorchards.com/demos/demonstrations.html

Good PDF guide to pruning by Lee Calhoun, (who is responsible for preserving a great many heirloom apple varieties that would have been lost if not for him):

http://centuryfarmorchards.com/demos/demonstrations.html



I hope to soon develop a sticky thread similar to the one they had on QDMA's forum before they closed it, to provide a reference specific to fruit & nut tree cultivation, but I have to find the time.


----------



## Forest Grump

This one is pretty good & explanatory as well, although, once again, she is training an orchard tree for picking, so prefers open center. Conversely, we want to use a central leader because we want a taller tree that we don't pick the fruit & where it is strong enough to withstand our SE storms. Lowest scaffolds need to be about 5 feet high, or the deer will break your limbs eating the leaves. When you buy your tree, it will usually have scaffolds lower than that; leave them (if caged) for a couple of years to help build the tree, then remove them as it is coming into fruit. 



She does a nice job of explaining the perils of pruning too vigorously, which is seldom covered.


----------



## Canuck5

Good information!!!


----------



## Triple C

Forest Grump said:


> I hope to soon develop a sticky thread similar to the one they had on QDMA's forum before they closed it, to provide a reference specific to fruit & nut tree cultivation, but I have to find the time.



That would be greatly appreciated.  The technical data that Canuck has posted in this thread and expertise from guys like yourself is about as good of info as I have ever found on any forum including the now defunct QDMA forum.


----------



## 4444

*Spring Cover Mix for no-till*

I'm going to try a no-till plot with the throw and mow technique.  I'd love recommendations on what to plant this spring primarily to produce more green manure for the fall.  Historically have had a lot of trouble with spring/summer plots due to over browsing (high deer density and smallish plots) so plants that deer don't like well might be very helpful in the mix.  Thanks for any help and all of the great prior posts


----------



## Canuck5

I probably have too many more questions about your situation.  How big are your plots and how many do you have?  I'm assuming shadier plots?

My focus would be on establishing a fall plot that can handle that pressure and feed the deer a good percentage of the year.  Good quality protein feed at the right time of the year, for the deer.

My suggestion would be to plant a perennial clover in the fall or a mix of clovers.  Clovers are just so hard to beat and they give the deer (does, fawns and bucks) what they need at the right time.

If you plant something the deer don't care for, in the spring, to gain organic matter, you've sent the deer over to the neighbors to feed.

If you want a no-till plot (throw & mow?), start this fall with cereal grains and clover, assuming your ph is where it needs to be.  If it's not, then work on it this spring/summer and focus on the fall and this time next year, you might have a good stand of clover, that will carry you through to the fall, for you to repeat.

But you could plant buckwheat, just to get something growing and you may be able to plant it a couple of times thru the summer.


----------



## 4444

Thanks for the reply.  We have a 1 acre plot (800yds x 18ft), 3 about 1/3 acre (300yd x 15ft, 200yd x 20ft, 60ft x 100yd).  So mostly long and narrow with 1 rectangle and some shade but mostly not too bad.  Soils very from pretty sandy to nice sand/loam.  This is on 230 acres so small portion in plots.  Majority of land is in pines that are a little over-thinned with excellent understory browse and controlled burning which produces large quantity of food.  Mostly we hope that plots will slow deer long enough to get a better shot.  Have had very good success growing winter wheat, oats, cereal rye, and winter peas with standard till and fertilize.  The wheat usually does best followed by oats then peas then rye.  Soil ph all 6.3 to 7.  Have had very poor success with a number of clover attempts.  All warm season crops get eaten flat and killed by browsing including buckwheat, sun hemp, forage soybean, peanuts, clover, various commercial mixes.  I suspect that I need a spring mix with a lot of grass or cereal grains with basal meristem (grows up from the bottom and not killed by grazing).  I live in Florida and generally do not go up between mid May and mid Sept.  Maybe I should try the sun hemp again as last spring was dry.  Thanks again for your input and time


----------



## Canuck5

4444 said:


> Thanks for the reply.  We have a 1 acre plot (800yds x 18ft), 3 about 1/3 acre (300yd x 15ft, 200yd x 20ft, 60ft x 100yd).  So mostly long and narrow with 1 rectangle and some shade but mostly not too bad.  Soils very from pretty sandy to nice sand/loam.  This is on 230 acres so small portion in plots.  Majority of land is in pines that are a little over-thinned with excellent understory browse and controlled burning which produces large quantity of food.  Mostly we hope that plots will slow deer long enough to get a better shot.  Have had very good success growing winter wheat, oats, cereal rye, and winter peas with standard till and fertilize.  The wheat usually does best followed by oats then peas then rye.  Soil ph all 6.3 to 7.  Have had very poor success with a number of clover attempts.  All warm season crops get eaten flat and killed by browsing including buckwheat, sun hemp, forage soybean, peanuts, clover, various commercial mixes.  I suspect that I need a spring mix with a lot of grass or cereal grains with basal meristem (grows up from the bottom and not killed by grazing).  I live in Florida and generally do not go up between mid May and mid Sept.  Maybe I should try the sun hemp again as last spring was dry.  Thanks again for your input and time



If you tried all those things, I'd say you've given it a good try!


----------



## Canuck5

Managing a clover plot


----------



## Canuck5

Planting corn (or anything) when it's too wet


----------



## Canuck5

Plant with the right soil temperatures


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Muddy Water

I started planting rye in my plot back in late November. When should I expect it to start dying off? I'd like to let it go to seed but i'm going to do a first till and don't know if i'd be better off getting it under as green manure

It's a small plot with non-ideal lighting so what are my options for a fall cover crop?


----------



## Canuck5

Muddy Water said:


> I started planting rye in my plot back in late November. When should I expect it to start dying off? I'd like to let it go to seed but i'm going to do a first till and don't know if i'd be better off getting it under as green manure
> 
> It's a small plot with non-ideal lighting so what are my options for a fall cover crop?



Below is a pic of my oats/clover plots in 2015.  That pic was taken on 5-27-15 and you can see the oats have seed out and are breaking over and your rye will do the same at ruffly the same time.   But looking at it further, you see the clover poking thru.  The next pic shows a late August pic, where the oats are on the ground, the crimson clover has died off, along with the arrowleaf clover, leaving the medium red clover.

I show that to let you think about adding clover to your mix this fall or maybe a 3 clover mix, to carry your thru, till replanting the following fall.   Clover tolerates shade, which it sounds like you might have.  With that, you don't need to do any spring work.

Tilling the rye over soon would give you good green manure, assuming you plan to plant something shortly after that.  If you're not going to plant till the fall, then I'd probably just let things go and work the ground up several weeks before your fall planting.   If weeds get out of control, spray or work the ground up to keep them from going to seed.

A version of the Cadillac combo is what is shown in the pics.


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...You're such a great resource on this section of the forum.  Thanks a million for posting such great data and technical info such as these videos!

Between you, Forest Grump and a couple more, bout as much knowledge here as one can find anywhere on the internet.  I plan to print this particular thread and put it in a binder.


----------



## Muddy Water

So if my rye is going to start dying around May what are my options to keep something green on the ground between then and the Fall for this year? could I go ahead and throw some clover seeds on top of the rye and hope that it starts taking when by May or is that too early to plant?


----------



## Canuck5

LOL, thanks Triple C ...... I learn along the way, too!!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Muddy Water said:


> So if my rye is going to start dying around May what are my options to keep something green on the ground between then and the Fall for this year? could I go ahead and throw some clover seeds on top of the rye and hope that it starts taking when by May or is that too early to plant?



I don't know how thick your rye is right now and I don't know what type of equipment you have.  An option would be to broadcast buckwheat when the rye has seeded out, then bush hog (chop, cut, mow) the rye over top.  The buckwheat would germinate and carry you thru for about 60 days.  No need to work the ground up.  That gets you in to August.

Clover is best fall planted and if your rye is too thick, it might not germinate or if it does, it might not survive the hot summer.


----------



## Widespreadhunter

*First time planting Spring and Fall Food Plots*

Hey Everyone,

I'm new to the site and was hoping I could get some helpful suggestions on planting a 1/2 acre food plot for the first time this spring and one for the fall.  I'm trying to attract and keep some constant traffic. I understand the fertilizing and soil testing and will be using my atv to do the tilling.  I'm located in Northeast Georgia. Any help would be great.  Thanks!


----------



## Canuck5

My suggestion would be to get the results back from your soil test, which will tell you a lot.  Chances are very good that they might tell you to add 4000 lbs to the acre of lime, so that would be your next step, applying it and working it in to the top 4" of your soil.

The lime will take 6 months or more, to start to do you any good, so that brings you to October first, which will be a good time to plant your fall plots.

If your soil has a ph of 5 or less, there's a very good chance that you are not going to grow much ..... seriously.  So, get your soil right and then consider some fall planted clover and cereal grain mix.  For a 1/2 acre plot, that is probably your best bet!

See "Cadillac Combo" in post # 517.  It could be a year round plot for you.


----------



## Widespreadhunter

*That sounds great......*

I'll do that.  Can you give me a suggestion on where to buy all those seeds individually as you suggested?  I checked my local feed and seed stores and they really don't carry them unless you buy in large bulk.  Please let me know.  I appreciate all your help!


----------



## Canuck5

Widespreadhunter said:


> I'll do that.  Can you give me a suggestion on where to buy all those seeds individually as you suggested?  I checked my local feed and seed stores and they really don't carry them unless you buy in large bulk.  Please let me know.  I appreciate all your help!



A place to try would be Ash Brothers:
195 E Kytle St, Cleveland, GA 30528

(706) 865-2124

I have no experience with them, but they said that they would mix you up a blend of anything you wanted.  You didn't need to buy 50 lbs of anything.  They will get in cereal grains and several different types of clover, peas, etc..

Give them a call in late August and see what they have ordered for a fall planting!  Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Widespreadhunter

*Great people....*

I just spoke with them to see what they had to say and you hooked me up with the right folks.  I 'll let you how it all goes.  Thanks again for all the help!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Widespreadhunter said:


> I just spoke with them to see what they had to say and you hooked me up with the right folks.  I 'll let you how it all goes.  Thanks again for all the help!!!



Glad I could help!!


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## Crakajak

A few pictures from this weekend


----------



## Canuck5

Shangri-La is coming alive!!!


----------



## Canuck5

If you're planting regular soybeans, this gives you a rough idea on how many days to mature, for the different "maturity groups" you can buy.  Maturity Groups 4, 5, and 6 are typically planted in the Mid-South and most likely available to you now.

Something to consider for deer season, but also check in to the "first frost and last frost" dates, since soybeans cannot tolerate a frost.  I know we're not growing crops here, but just something to consider for pod production, if that is what you're shooting for ...... and if you have enough acres to plant.

http://www.deltafarmpress.com/soybeans/soybean-maturity-group-planting-date-and-development-related


----------



## Triple C

Most valuable habitat thread on the forum and it just keeps getting better!


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## LDF

Just read this entire thread. It made me create an account. Hope to learn a lot from you guys. I'm new to habitat management but really loving the process so far. This is my first year on my first ever property so I'm learning as I go. 

Canuck, in the post #517 did you let your oats fall and die naturally or did you cut them down to help form a quicker mulch?
Also, are you nervous tilling that plot will result in the white clover not returning? I know it's a perennial and I want to help ensure it lasts for years. I was wondering if simply broadcasting oats/wheats/clover in last year's plot and having last year's clover/oats serve as a mulch and help build soil health and organic matter


----------



## Canuck5

LDF said:


> Just read this entire thread. It made me create an account. Hope to learn a lot from you guys. I'm new to habitat management but really loving the process so far. This is my first year on my first ever property so I'm learning as I go.
> 
> Canuck, in the post #517 did you let your oats fall and die naturally or did you cut them down to help form a quicker mulch?
> Also, are you nervous tilling that plot will result in the white clover not returning? I know it's a perennial and I want to help ensure it lasts for years. I was wondering if simply broadcasting oats/wheats/clover in last year's plot and having last year's clover/oats serve as a mulch and help build soil health and organic matter



Welcome!!

1.  I only planted the oats at a rate of about 40 lbs/acre and yes, I just let them die naturally.  Between them naturally falling over and the deer/rabbits/turkeys trampling them, they made their way to the ground.  40 lbs/acre lets a fair amount of light get down to the ground, to let the clover grow.  Pics from this year, below, taken this weekend.

2.  In that plot is crimson, arrowleaf, which are annual clovers and medium red clover which is a biennial (2 year), so, no, I did not have any intention of not tilling it in and will reseed again.  This year, I will leave strips of fall 2016's planting, which should have a lot of medium red clover still growing, just to hedge my bet against another fall drought.

3.  If you want to get a perennial clover going, first off, focus on grass and weed control this year, after getting your soil ph close to 6.5.  Then chose the perennial clover you want to plant and plant it along with a cereal grain, again, maybe in the 40-50 lbs/acre range.  That will be your "nurse crop" and help get your clover started.

I have a few perennial plots which are good, in particular when there is adequate moisture, however my Durana will go dormant for 2 months in the summer.  That's 2 months without any food for the deer.  The medium red clover was still growing and being used, when I tilled it up last fall and replanted.  In hindsight, I should've left strips of it.

The bottom line, is this "mix" is pretty close to a year round food source "for me".


----------



## Canuck5

The Cadillac Combo is close to the mix I use and you can see by the chart, that the medium red clover still produces into early fall.


----------



## LDF

Thanks for your help.  I was thinking a mix of white and red clover, Chicory, and Oats would be my first real "try" at a food plot.  Hoping the chicory and red clover will get the deer through the summer.  I don't have the plot acreage or equipment to plant beans so i'm looking for a good variety.  I like the cadillac combo.  I'm not familiar with arrow leaf clover or austrian peas but i'm going to look into those


----------



## Canuck5

If you take a look at the middle picture and you see clover leaves with a point on them, that's arrowleaf, a pretty common variety around here.  The larger oval leaves, with a white arrow (called a water mark) in the center of the leaf, is the medium red clover.  The oval leaves, without any water mark is the crimson.

Austrian winter peas is still something my deer haven't seemed to take to.  Yours might!!


----------



## LDF

Canuck, do you happen to have any advice for increasing the turkey population on our property? I have never seen one in person but I have seen one on camera.  I know we need to really take down the coyote, bobcat, coon, and possum population but other than that any advice?


----------



## Canuck5

LDF said:


> Canuck, do you happen to have any advice for increasing the turkey population on our property? I have never seen one in person but I have seen one on camera.  I know we need to really take down the coyote, bobcat, coon, and possum population but other than that any advice?



I think that you might want to ask the guys in Turkey Talk.  They can probably give you a better answer!  Good luck!


----------



## Crakajak

LDF said:


> Canuck, do you happen to have any advice for increasing the turkey population on our property? I have never seen one in person but I have seen one on camera.  I know we need to really take down the coyote, bobcat, coon, and possum population but other than that any advice?



Trapping during season and coyote year round will help the turkey population.Another issue is loss of habitat for turkeys.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck, I am so happy to see you here since QDMA kicked us to the curb, you are offering up some fantastic info and advice, keep up the good work!!

I noticed your chart on post #534 and wondered, have you seen a similar chart with white clover included and also covers 12 months rather than Jan-Aug?


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> Canuck, I am so happy to see you here since QDMA kicked us to the curb, you are offering up some fantastic info and advice, keep up the good work!!
> 
> I noticed your chart on post #534 and wondered, have you seen a similar chart with white clover included and also covers 12 months rather than Jan-Aug?



I haven't ... but I will see what I can find!  Actually, for me, in middle Georgia, when I plant in late September or early October (and we get rain), this mix becomes available to the deer once it gets out of the ground in October, till I replant the following year.

The pic below is what is left of the medium red clover, when I tilled it under in the fall of 2016.  It kept feeding the deer, all the way along.


----------



## davidhelmly

I try to keep 20-25 acres in white clover (durana/alice) every year and 10-15 in brassica so I'm rotating some of the plots every year. I always mix a cereal grain in when planting the clover and brassica but I'm thinking about also adding some red clover in with the white that we will plant this year. Last years drought really hurt our plots so bad that some still look really bad, I have a feeling we will be planting a lot more acres this year than normal.


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> I try to keep 20-25 acres in white clover (durana/alice) every year and 10-15 in brassica so I'm rotating some of the plots every year. I always mix a cereal grain in when planting the clover and brassica but I'm thinking about also adding some red clover in with the white that we will plant this year. Last years drought really hurt our plots so bad that some still look really bad, I have a feeling we will be planting a lot more acres this year than normal.



Yes, a couple of my Durana plots show a little worse for wear.  The medium red is a biennial, so you could have it in there for a couple of years!


----------



## Canuck5

35-40 acres is a whole lot of plots!!!!


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> 35-40 acres is a whole lot of plots!!!!



Yeah we've got right at 40 acs of plots on 1250 acs, last year was right at 40 acs of dirt!


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> Yeah we've got right at 40 acs of plots on 1250 acs, last year was right at 40 acs of dirt!



Last year was not a fall planting to right home about, for sure!!.  But add some pics and stories about some of the successes (this year )!


----------



## LDF

Okay so here is the plot we planted last year.  Due to the drought and new property we just bought a random mix from TSC to see if anything would grow.  Oats and a few clover species were present (and i'm sure ryegrass).  My plan for this year is to spray/kill around early September, broadcast a mix of oats, chicory, red clover, and white clover and then knock down/roll last year's dead plot to protect the seeds and get some organic matter into the soil


Edit: sorry about the second picture it keeps posting sideways. I've tried rotating every way possible and it continues to post sideways


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like you might have rye grass in there, which I would keep from going to seed, otherwise you might have it forever.  Bush hog it, to keep it from making seed or spray the entire plot with clethodim and crop oil, which will kill the grasses (rye grass & oats), but let the clovers grow.


----------



## Canuck5

Seedbed preparation  https://www.pioneer.com/home/site/us/agronomy/library/seedbed-preparation/


----------



## Canuck5

Tractor Tire and Ballast Management  http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G1235


----------



## Canuck5

Conventional and No-till seed bed preparation

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_002369.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Lots of good information from GrowingDeerTV this week.  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/how-to-maximize-food-plots

Even though I don't have a roller/crimper or a no-till drill, I think there's lots of tips to pick up on.  Like the fact that the rolled rye helped protect the soybeans from over browseing (of course, helping with weed control and moisture retention too).  Or that the standing wheat/rye in the clover plot did the same thing, plus provide a little additional food.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> Lots of good information from GrowingDeerTV this week.  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/how-to-maximize-food-plots
> 
> Even though I don't have a roller/crimper or a no-till drill, I think there's lots of tips to pick up on.  Like the fact that the rolled rye helped protect the soybeans from over browseing (of course, helping with weed control and moisture retention too).  Or that the standing wheat/rye in the clover plot did the same thing, plus provide a little additional food.



I agree great show today, I just watched it also.


----------



## Canuck5

Mineral Stumps ...... an interesting "listen"  (no video)

https://secure-hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a...97613706&hwt=487df6e8493b678a1aff509bb07f46c8


----------



## BCPbuckhunter

Canuck5 said:


> Mineral Stumps ...... an interesting "listen"  (no video)
> 
> https://secure-hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a...97613706&hwt=487df6e8493b678a1aff509bb07f46c8



yes it is a very interesting listen.


----------



## Canuck5

Another good growing deer tv video  http://www.growingdeer.tv/#/over-15-tips-for-the-best-food-plots-and-nutritious-native-browse


----------



## LDF

Is there still any time to throw out some summer forage until it's time to plant a fall mix? Had a lot going on and wasn't able to spray until today. Should I try to throw out some beans/sunflower/milo or just wait to plant my fall mix?


----------



## Canuck5

LDF said:


> Is there still any time to throw out some summer forage until it's time to plant a fall mix? Had a lot going on and wasn't able to spray until today. Should I try to throw out some beans/sunflower/milo or just wait to plant my fall mix?



I think I'd probably wait and save my money for the fall.  We never know if July and August turn hot and dry again.

For the moment, Mother Nature is providing lots of rainfall and food for the deer, so just get your plots ready for late September or early October, now!


----------



## Canuck5

Cleaning our bush hogging and or tillage equipment, to keep weed seeds from moving from plot to plot or trail or power line to plot is a good idea.  Washing, sweeping or blowing off the equipment doesn't hurt.

I know we don't combine, but the thought process is still the same.

http://www.iowafarmertoday.com/staf...cle_0e5b428e-5e8d-11e2-936f-0019bb2963f4.html


----------



## LDF

This is more of a habitat question in general...but my property is an insane amount of privet in the interior and kudzu on the borders. I mowed and sprayed the kudzu and hope to burn sometime before planning a fall food plot and hope that helps choke out the kudzu..but we are slowly mowing the privet back..any tips for eradicating privet and letting native grasses take back the property


----------



## Canuck5

Others might have some better suggestions, but here's a couple of options

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1468/ANR-1468.pdf


----------



## livinoutdoors

I have some recent experience with privet. The link above has some good tips. If you can hand pull it out do it. It will keep it from coming back. On the big  ones cut it flush to the ground, drill a hole or two in the stump, and spray with glyphosate. Anything less and it will come back. It will still come back a little even with these methods but if you stay on it the natural stuff will come back


----------



## Canuck5

16 different cover crop mixes ...... some that I think the deer might enjoy and maybe a couple mixes worthwhile trying in the spring and summer.


----------



## Canuck5

Fertilize your perennial clover in October!   The fall is getting closer!!!  0-20-20 if you can find it, or as low a first number if you can't, like 6-24-24


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## Canuck5

Seedbed preparation .... done on organic farms, with no, no-till equipment, and trying to maximize yield and keep weeds under control.  For those of us leasing Timber properties, trying to maximize as much food as possible, yet trying to help the soil, as best we can.  It's a compromise.


----------



## Canuck5

I'll get some better pictures of other food plots, where I left strips of (Biennial) medium red clover.  I left them to hedge my bets against drought this year and they are are performing well.  3 deer were shot this weekend and all of them were food plots, with clover still standing.

Ethan (15 year old), shot his first buck, that was in a food plot with lots of medium red clover.  Pic below has a strip of MR clover I left standing, on the right.


----------



## GeorgeShu

That is good stuff there Canuck.  So its a year old and still going strong?  Do you think there may be other clover varieties in there as well?  I like it either way and it appears to be very attractive at the right time of the year.


----------



## Canuck5

Yup, that was planted last fall and there are other clovers in there.  Possibly some reseeding crimson and a white clover in there.


----------



## Triple C

Nice job Canuck!  Clover is the gift that keeps on giving!


----------



## Canuck5

It is!!  A good stand of year round clover is a great thing!


----------



## Canuck5

Making the Most of Mixtures: Considerations for Winter Cover Crops in Temperate Climates

There's some things in there that can help us with weed control and maybe keep us from going overboard on putting too many seeds in a mix, and deciding "which" seeds will be of most benefit to the deer, and the soil.  Just something to think about, as we watch this seasons food plots grow!

http://articles.extension.org/pages...ter-cover-crops-in-temperate-climates#toomany


----------



## Canuck5

Some interesting benefits of daikon radishes

http://notillveggies.org/2014/03/12/results-are-in-radish-300-phacelia-200-weeds-50/#more-682


----------



## Canuck5

Jeff Sturgis ..... a good watch ..... 1 1/2 hours long


----------



## davidhelmly

I did a quick look and didn't see it posted but apologize if this is a duplicate. I watched this over the weekend and is has a lot of good info in it.


----------



## Canuck5

Looks interesting!!


----------



## Doolydawg03

Great video David thanks for sharing there is lots of great info here it was long but worth it.


----------



## Triple C

This thread just keeps getting better and better!  One of the true 5 start sticky threads on the forum.


----------



## davidhelmly

Doolydawg03 said:


> Great video David thanks for sharing there is lots of great info here it was long but worth it.



You’re welcome Dooly, a lot of his info is way over my head but like you said, lots of great info in there. I’ve actually watched the whole thing twice now trying to soak it up!!


----------



## Canuck5

With these temps we've been having in February, Triple C has me now worried that we're going to pay the price, with a freeze, to kill off the buds on our blooming Keiffers.  I'll keep my eye on things, but not much I can do about it!

Just for reference, a Michigan study  http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/freeze_damage_depends_on_tree_fruit_stage_of_development


----------



## Canuck5

How deep are the roots of my wheat/oats/3 clover/radish/turnip cover crop going now?  Pulling up nutrients from deep below.

https://georgiaorganics.org/wp-content/themes/GeorgiaOrganics/Downloads/pdf/CropRotations.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Cover crops to help control some weeds?  What kind of weeds do you have?

https://georgiaorganics.org/wp-cont...s/Downloads/pdf/CoverCropsforOrganicFarms.pdf


----------



## Forest Grump

*Fruit Tree Pruning video:*

Lots of questions arise on here concerning pruning fruit trees. Bill Winke just put out a Midwest Whitetail episode where he had a guy go through & prune some neglected trees & explain as he went. 

I prefer using a central leader form, whereas the video uses an open center, & with severe pruning like this you will get a flush of vegetative growth the next year that will need to be attended to. But he does a nice job of explaining the wheres & whys of what he is doing.

There was no share/embed code available, so I just copied the link:

http://www.midwestwhitetail.com/videos/fruit-plots-pruning-apple-trees-midwest-whitetail/






.


----------



## Canuck5

^^^^^^  Good info.!


----------



## Canuck5

Grant Woods 2018 Field Days

http://www.growingdeer.tv/?ep=436#/how-to-deer-hunting-turkey-hunting-and-more-from-field-day-2018


----------



## Doolydawg03

Thanks fellas endless info from you guys every bit is greatly appreciated thanks for sharing


----------



## Canuck5

Cereal grains and annual clovers

http://www.growingdeer.tv/?ep=437#/turkey-hunting-tips-food-plots-for-spring-tune-up


----------



## Canuck5

Another interesting video


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...Hope this "sticky" thread never gets removed.  Only problem with sticky's is that they don't get checked often enough...at least from me.  I tend to overlook them until I think about them.

This entire thread is worth printing and binding as a future resource for all things related to deer habitat.


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C!


----------



## Canuck5

Looking at George Shu's clover thread, I think it shows another important thing that he eluded too and that the benefit it provides fawns.  He leaves his bush hog and tractor in the barn and let's nature take it's course, while still feeding his herd!

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=919694

His medium red clover is yet to bloom and will max out it's nutritive value at about 50% bloom.  That could be another month or more away, carrying him closer to the fall.  In the meantime, he has created a lot of "structure" and "edge" on his property.  (A 2 acre plot has more edge than a 1/4 acre plot)

This study tries to help explain something we probably all know about predation.   https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/ja/2017/ja_2017_kilgo_001.pdf Lots of structure gives lots of places for fawns to hide.  More "edge" means more obstructed visibility for coyotes, but it also makes more non-deer food available to the coyotes and possibly takes the pressure off of their hunt for fawns.  More food like blackberries ..... easier food for them.


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5

A Facebook QDMA page ..... wished I could copy the embedded code.

https://www.facebook.com/theqdma/videos/1252885211391142/


----------



## shdw633

Great posts Canuck!!


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks!  I copy and paste, well!


----------



## GeorgeShu

Canuck, about 2 weeks ago I got a trail cam vid of a neighborhood free ranging bulldog carrying a new fawn it had captured.  This occurred on the far side of the property from the food plot in my clover thread, about 1/2 mile away.  That area has no edge for hiding.  It is clearcut land bordered by 20 year old pines with no edge growth between the two.

Anecdotal evidence does not prove anything but it does add credence to the proposition that edge may limit predation where as lack of edge does not help prevent predation.


----------



## Canuck5

GeorgeShu said:


> Canuck, about 2 weeks ago I got a trail cam vid of a neighborhood free ranging bulldog carrying a new fawn it had captured.  This occurred on the far side of the property from the food plot in my clover thread, about 1/2 mile away.  That area has no edge for hiding.  It is clearcut land bordered by 20 year old pines with no edge growth between the two.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence does not prove anything but it does add credence to the proposition that edge may limit predation where as lack of edge does not help prevent predation.



Sure makes sense to me, George!  And you "lost" a fawn there, but may gain more fawns, where you have lots of edge.  With some luck, you'll have more deer in that food plot area this year .... more deer, next year and so on and on.  50% of the fawns may be does and will produce another set of fawns the next year.


----------



## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> Looking at George Shu's clover thread, I think it shows another important thing that he eluded too and that the benefit it provides fawns.  He leaves his bush hog and tractor in the barn and let's nature take it's course, while still feeding his herd!
> 
> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=919694
> 
> His medium red clover is yet to bloom and will max out it's nutritive value at about 50% bloom.  That could be another month or more away, carrying him closer to the fall.  In the meantime, he has created a lot of "structure" and "edge" on his property.  (A 2 acre plot has more edge than a 1/4 acre plot)
> 
> This study tries to help explain something we probably all know about predation.   https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/ja/2017/ja_2017_kilgo_001.pdf Lots of structure gives lots of places for fawns to hide.  More "edge" means more obstructed visibility for coyotes, but it also makes more non-deer food available to the coyotes and possibly takes the pressure off of their hunt for fawns.  More food like blackberries ..... easier food for them.



Amen. This time of year I almost hate to mow plots mainly because it's so hot but also because  I know I'm eliminating a lot of cover. My wheat is usually 5.5 feet tall and thick and it's matted down in places out in the middle where the deer have been bedding down.


----------



## davidhelmly

Hey Canuck, I’ve got a throw n mow question for you. If I were to overseed some cereal grain and brassica into some of my perennial clover plots early-mid Sep and then ran over them with a cultipacker or my big drag flipped over, do you think I would get enough seed to soil contact for decent germination? I’m going to try and not break any ground this year if I can help it.


----------



## Canuck5

I think you have couple of options, for your beautiful clover plots and what you want to accomplish.  

Wheat or cereal rye will germinate in the back of your pickup truck, so if you just broadcast the seed, over top your clover, broadcasting it a little on the heavy side and take what you get.  Brassicas might have a little more trouble germinating and growing, but you'll get enough.

The other thing you can do (I think you have a set of discs?) is run your discs 1/2"- 1" deep, through your clover and just leave some little grooves, then broadcast your cereal grain and brassica's and I think you'll be pleased with what you see.  You don't have to do the entire plot, you could just do 20 foot strips through it, if you wanted.  Your clover will be unharmed and come back gangbusters.

I think a cultipacker might not accomplish what you want to do and a drag might collect a lot of trash, that you'll spend time cleaning out.  But you could certainly give it a try.  Either way, I think you could get wheat and brassicas growing in your plots.


----------



## davidhelmly

Thanks for the input Canuck, I’m wanting one of the Woods minimal till planters in a bad way for this very reason, lightly disk, seed two sizes of seeds and cultipack all in one pass. It won’t happen this year but I’m going to try and make it happen before next!


----------



## Canuck5

My list of "equipment wants" just keeps growing!


----------



## GeorgeShu

David and Canuck, I plan on doing the same thing this fall in a couple of my plots. Some minor differences in my plan are my plots are played out fall mixes from last year, that did not get a red clover stand.  I will shortly do a throw and mow with buck wheat, let it grow until mid Sep then kill it and repeat the fall mix throw and grow.
I also want to move to a no till strategy if I can.
Let’s compare results later.


----------



## davidhelmly

GeorgeShu said:


> David and Canuck, I plan on doing the same thing this fall in a couple of my plots. Some minor differences in my plan are my plots are played out fall mixes from last year, that did not get a red clover stand.  I will shortly do a throw and mow with buck wheat, let it grow until mid Sep then kill it and repeat the fall mix throw and grow.
> I also want to move to a no till strategy if I can.
> Let’s compare results later.


Sounds like a plan!!


----------



## BCPbuckhunter

davidhelmly said:


> Hey Canuck, I’ve got a throw n mow question for you. If I were to overseed some cereal grain and brassica into some of my perennial clover plots early-mid Sep and then ran over them with a cultipacker or my big drag flipped over, do you think I would get enough seed to soil contact for decent germination? I’m going to try and not break any ground this year if I can help it.


David, what I do is I just broadcast my seed into my clover and flip my drag upside down where it is less aggressive and drag the seed and I have great results. My drag is the kind that is made out of 1/2" cold roll in a diamond pattern and if you flip it over it has 1/2" pieces about 3-4" long that stick down like in a Y pattern. the less aggressive side works great. That's what I do. I have even done winter peas the same way. I do this with my daikon radishes too.


----------



## Canuck5

Good info.!  I keep thinking about how aggressive my drag is.


----------



## davidhelmly

BCPbuckhunter said:


> David, what I do is I just broadcast my seed into my clover and flip my drag upside down where it is less aggressive and drag the seed and I have great results. My drag is the kind that is made out of 1/2" cold roll in a diamond pattern and if you flip it over it has 1/2" pieces about 3-4" long that stick down like in a Y pattern. the less aggressive side works great. That's what I do. I have even done winter peas the same way. I do this with my daikon radishes too.



That sounds like the exact same drag I’ve got, it’s 2 pieces that are 4x8 making it 8x8 when they are together. I was thinking the non aggressive side like you suggested so it wouldn’t tear up the clover, I think I will definitely give it a try this year, thanks!!


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> Good info.!  I keep thinking about how aggressive my drag is.


Canuck, is yours smooth on one side with teeth on the other like BCP described? This is the exact one I have.


----------



## Canuck5

LOL, mine are old school and haven't used them in a long time.  2 sections, flipped over and pulled behind a 4 wheeler.  They can move a lot of trash, LOL.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> LOL, mine are old school and haven't used them in a long time.  2 sections, flipped over and pulled behind a 4 wheeler.  They can move a lot of trash, LOL.


Those spikes look like they could do some work!!


----------



## Canuck5

Yes they could.  Those were probably, at one time, pulled either just ahead of a cultipacker or pulled behind a grain drill, in both cases, to help cover seed on tilled soil.  They are all of 75 years old.


----------



## 2 UP

I have about a 1/2 acre I’m going to plant this Oct in Imperial Whitetail Clover. Would it hinder the clover in getting established if I planted oats first, then smoothed everything over and sowed the clover on top? Only reason for the oats is for the fall attraction. If it’s better long term to plant the clover alone, I’ll do that. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## GeorgeShu

2 Up, that will work. I would try to do this right in front of a rain if possible.  The rain drops will move enough soil particles around to mostly cover the small clover seeds assuring seed to soil contact for germination.


----------



## Canuck5

Listen to George!  Mother Natures rain will help push the clover seed in to the soil!


----------



## Canuck5

We're headed in to some hot temperatures right now, but maybe not as hot as years past, but I thought I'd post this chart, to show what excessive soil temperatures can do to the soil.   If you have something growing there right now, the soil is a lot cooler, than if you didn't.


----------



## Canuck5

We've had so much good rain this year, that I'm getting concerned about some dry fall weather.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> We've had so much good rain this year, that I'm getting concerned about some dry fall weather.



As crazy as it seems we are really dry right now, I think that we have had about 1/2" in the last 2-3 weeks but we've got a good chance all of this week.


----------



## Canuck5

Wow, I think we got 3/4" yesterday in Talbot County and another 3" predicted over the next 3 days.  Feast or famine!


----------



## davidhelmly

I was browsing Welters seed catalog today and saw a new clover offer named Aberlasting.  After doing some research on it I thought some of us white clover lovers may be interested in it. It is a hybrid between Caucasian (Kura) clover and white clover, it’s not quite as pricey as durana but certainly not cheap. Here’s a link with some info. 
http://www.grasslandoregon.com/assets/aberlasting.pdf


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Wow, I think we got 3/4" yesterday in Talbot County and another 3" predicted over the next 3 days.  Feast or famine!


I have had 4 " in the last 2 weeks.


----------



## Canuck5

Wow, well, we probably had similar!!!!


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> I was browsing Welters seed catalog today and saw a new clover offer named Aberlasting.  After doing some research on it I thought some of us white clover lovers may be interested in it. It is a hybrid between Caucasian (Kura) clover and white clover, it’s not quite as pricey as durana but certainly not cheap. Here’s a link with some info.
> http://www.grasslandoregon.com/assets/aberlasting.pdf



That looks interesting!  If you try it, keep us posted!!


----------



## Triple C

davidhelmly said:


> I was browsing Welters seed catalog today and saw a new clover offer named Aberlasting.  After doing some research on it I thought some of us white clover lovers may be interested in it. It is a hybrid between Caucasian (Kura) clover and white clover, it’s not quite as pricey as durana but certainly not cheap. Here’s a link with some info.
> http://www.grasslandoregon.com/assets/aberlasting.pdf


I'll be interested to see how this does for you David.


----------



## Canuck5

I'm not very smart ..... so, when Farmlogs https://farmlogs.com/ sent me notification that we had more rain on the property last night, I did some bouncing around on the sight and found out that they identified some soil types for one of our properties.  They keep adding to farmlogs all the time and this was the first time I noticed it.


----------



## davidhelmly

Crakajak said:


> I have had 4 " in the last 2 weeks.





Canuck5 said:


> I'm not very smart ..... so, when Farmlogs https://farmlogs.com/ sent me notification that we had more rain on the property last night, I did some bouncing around on the sight and found out that they identified some soil types for one of our properties.  They keep adding to farmlogs all the time and this was the first time I noticed it.
> 
> View attachment 938474View attachment 938475



Farmlogs is a very cool sight, I looked around and found the soil types too, very interesting! I was curious about our lack of rain and according to Farmlogs we have had .26" of rain total since July 16 but we did get some last night!!!


----------



## elfiii

Triple C said:


> I'll be interested to see how this does for you David.



Me too. I'm diving in neck deep with clover this year. No more half measures. The one plot I have in clover is drawing every kind of animal there is right now and holy wah do I got the bucks.


----------



## Crakajak

elfiii said:


> Me too. I'm diving in neck deep with clover this year. No more half measures. The one plot I have in clover is drawing every kind of animal there is right now and holy wah do I got the bucks.


Welcome to the yearround green side.


----------



## elfiii

The magic of clover explained in 2 pictures.


----------



## Crakajak

elfiii said:


> The magic of clover explained in 2 pictures.
> 
> View attachment 940078View attachment 940079


Yep!!! And all that is left to do is spray for weeds and Lime/fert.And be ready to hunt


----------



## elfiii

Crakajak said:


> Yep!!! And all that is left to do is spray for weeds and Lime/fert.And be ready to hunt



Yep. I sprayed for grass a month ago. Put down the lime too. Got the 2-4-dB teed up and ready to go. In fact I may spray this coming weekend. Middle of September it will be 500 lbs of 0-20-20 and then it's time to rock and roll.


----------



## Crakajak

Hopefully spraying for nutsedge this weekend. Bushhogged 2 weeks ago. Calling in the lime/fert truck in Sept and I am done on my big food plot. Then bushhog 4 miles of roads,check stands and ready to hunt.


----------



## Canuck5

Lime truck will arrive in the next few weeks (hopefully).  We still have lots of bush hogging to do.  I plan to spread fertilizer and work up the ground for my annual plots, the end of this month, hopefully!

We've had such good rainfall this year, that I am planning to get more perennial clover growing around the plots, to leave standing.  I'm doing this because I know the next drought is just around the corner!


----------



## Canuck5

Just thought I'd throw this out there, if anyone is looking for a more extensive soil test analysis.  I just took in another set of samples to see where I am.  All available to us, here in Georgia, if we feel something is lacking in our soil.

I know there are other labs out there who can do plant tissue analysis, for more definititve determination on what any problems there could be .... but my deer haven't asked for that yet.

https://www.agsourcelaboratories.co...s/plant-tissue-testing#172215-testing-options

http://extension.uga.edu/county-off...natural-resources/testing---lab-services.html


----------



## elfiii

They said rain for next week so I went ape planting food plots this weekend. It's all done. Now I need the rain. It better come too because from here on out work is done and it's time to hunt as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## roscoe54

Planted mine to let the rain fall.


Salvation is for all who believe in Gods Word.


----------



## Canuck5

I believe I will be going ape wild next weekend!!!


----------



## GAGE

My daughter and I planted five of ours yesterday, and I hope to get our last 6 done next weekend, bring on the rain!


----------



## elfiii

roscoe54 said:


> Planted mine to let the rain fall.
> 
> 
> Salvation is for all who believe in Gods Word.



I'll hazard salvation for 1.25 " of rain this week.


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> Hey Canuck, I’ve got a throw n mow question for you. If I were to overseed some cereal grain and brassica into some of my perennial clover plots early-mid Sep and then ran over them with a cultipacker or my big drag flipped over, do you think I would get enough seed to soil contact for decent germination? I’m going to try and not break any ground this year if I can help it.



I've been thinking about this, just trying to figure out how "we" might effectively accomplish this, in a perennial clover plot, without doing too much damage to the clover, but yet optimize our over seeding.   I think maybe something like this, with 50% less tines might work.  50% less tines to help keep the "trash" from building up too much.  I'm going to keep a look out for one of these (we all need more equipment, right?) and maybe play around with it.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> I've been thinking about this, just trying to figure out how "we" might effectively accomplish this, in a perennial clover plot, without doing too much damage to the clover, but yet optimize our over seeding.   I think maybe something like this, with 50% less tines might work.  50% less tines to help keep the "trash" from building up too much.  I'm going to keep a look out for one of these (we all need more equipment, right?) and maybe play around with it.


That does look like it could work, I’ve never seen one in person. To answer your question, I agree completely that you can never have too much equipment!!! ?


----------



## GeorgeShu

David and Canuck, I have one of these pine straw rakes that I have used to cover seed with when I seed into a prepared seed bed.  I have also used it to scratch things up when I have top seeded into my Durana plots.  It has served me quite well over the years for both purposes.  You need to adjust the top link so the tines slant a bit backwards else it will pick up lots of loose trash and make a mess.  AgriSupply carries them and I suppose other do too.  Price has gone way up since I bought mine!


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> I've been thinking about this, just trying to figure out how "we" might effectively accomplish this, in a perennial clover plot, without doing too much damage to the clover, but yet optimize our over seeding.   I think maybe something like this, with 50% less tines might work.  50% less tines to help keep the "trash" from building up too much.  I'm going to keep a look out for one of these (we all need more equipment, right?) and maybe play around with it.


You want to try using my landscape rake and turning it around backwards come and get it. It think it would work.I planted last weekend.


----------



## Canuck5

I will be in touch!!!  Once I get my annuals planted.


----------



## Canuck5

I got my soil test results back and it showed that I was a little low in Potassium, which I will adjust, at some point next year.  Since I'm not harvesting a crop and hauling it away, I get less worried about it, however, maybe I should?

Good potassium levels help with protein production, which is what I want, plus it helps with the plant to deal with heat and drought conditions.  Hmmmmmmmm

http://extension.uga.edu/content/da...am Newsletter Volume 4-Issue 1 March 2016.pdf


----------



## GeorgeShu

Here are some pics of my pine needle rake, its 6 ft long.  Also a pic showing before and after running the rake across a Durana plot that I just overseeded and fertilized.  This is my solution to improving seed-to-soil contact when I over seed.  I also use this rake to cover seeds in plots that have been well harrowed after fertilization.  Provide a nice smooth bed and lightly covers most of the seeds.


----------



## Canuck5

That looks good George!!!


----------



## elfiii

Rain! A good hard soaking rain in 31822! Woo Hoo!


----------



## XIronheadX

If the red area dances around me I think I'll cry. It's almost there!


----------



## davidhelmly

GeorgeShu said:


> Here are some pics of my pine needle rake, its 6 ft long.  Also a pic showing before and after running the rake across a Durana plot that I just overseeded and fertilized.  This is my solution to improving seed-tView attachment 944172View attachment 944172View attachment 944173View attachment 944174o-soil contact when I over seed.  I also use this rake to cover seeds in plots that have been well harrowed after fertilization.  Provide a nice smooth bed and lightly covers most of the seeds.



George, that rake looks like it does a great job in the clover, it disturbs the clover just enough but doesn’t do any harm to it!!


----------



## GeorgeShu

David, it works for me. I think I paid about $200 or $250 for it 10-12 years ago.


----------



## Canuck5

So, my food plots enjoyed a nice 2 3/4" of rain, from "Michael" and the oats and soybeans are up and just waiting on the clovers, radishes and turnips to start doing their stuff.  A nice cool front is coming thru, so we should be good to go!

I started thinking about oats in general and Buck Forage Oats, in particular.  I found out that Buck Forage Oats really started out, as a variety of Coker oats.  Coker 833 is what they were originally labeled in the late '90's.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/profiles/lbenedict/articles/page1520524017934

Their claim to fame is that they stay tender, sweeter and green longer than most other oat varieties.  This is typical of most forage variety of oats, but maybe BFO just does it a little better(?).  I have not used any "other" forage oats and most of the time, it's just plain Coker oats, that I plant.

So, I wondered what work UGA has done for forage oats, specifically for Georgia, and specifically for wildlife, so I emailed Dr. Dennis Hancock and he gave some guidance on work that was already done.  I'm not sure what all this means for me, but I found it interesting.  I'm  not sure what the prices are for these seed varieties or where I can get them easily, but it all has me thinking ....  Not sure if they are any better than BFO or not, but I'd like to compare, one day.

https://site.extension.uga.edu/forageteam/2018/09/cool-season-wildlife-food-plots/

http://georgiaforages.caes.uga.edu/species-and-varieties/cool-season/oat.html


----------



## Canuck5

Just for my own reference, it looks like Horizon 306 oat seed might be the most preferred option to consider for Georgia, wildlife.  It will be a treated seed, since it is sold to farmers and sells in the ball park of $20 - $21 per bag.  I think it might be a good option to do some comparisons on, next fall.  Something for me to think about.


----------



## Canuck5

A few interesting things in here ..... "More mature bucks in your herd will stabilize the social system, compress the breeding season and move it earlier in the year."  Less late born fawns giving them a greater chance of survival.


----------



## davidhelmly

Great vide


Canuck5 said:


> A few interesting things in here ..... "More mature bucks in your herd will stabilize the social system, compress the breeding season and move it earlier in the year."  Less late born fawns giving them a greater chance of survival.


Great video, that would be interesting work! I wonder if the bucks get laughed at with their shaved belt?! ?


----------



## Canuck5

Sure seems like a mean thing to do!!!!


----------



## Crakajak

3 wek old throw and grow of wheat and crimson after the turkeys came through Seeded,fert,limed and then bushhogged over 
.A George Shu approach.


----------



## Canuck5

Just some more things to ponder, with overseeding.  The tire drag, that he made, with the chains, seems to ruff the soil up pretty well!  (Funny looking deer in this video, tho)


----------



## Canuck5

Another ......


----------



## Canuck5

A thick stand of anything, is good weed control, in and of itself (expect for maybe grass)


----------



## Canuck5

Another year rolling around and our season was pretty good, but nearing an end.  Now it's time to start making a few plans, the first one being mineral sites.  

With the amount of warm weather (relative) that we are having, the food plots are nice and green and looking good, providing lots of beneficial nutrients for the gestating does and soon to be antlerless bucks.  I think the jury is still "out" on whether or not "minerals" we put out, benefit the deer, but I do know that salt is pretty important.

For bucks, I've always been told that the mineral need for them, is when they drop their antlers and start growing new ones, so we're nearing that time, in the next 30 days or so.  That's on my list for our next work weekend.

http://wiredtohunt.com/2012/04/20/the-4-things-you-need-to-know-about-minerals-for-deer/ 



Why do bucks drop antlers early?

https://www.qdma.com/causes-early-antler-casting/


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck, I got a book this week by Gabe Brown that I am in the process of reading, if you haven’t read it I bet you would enjoy it!


----------



## Canuck5

I bet that's a good book!    I've seen him in several video's!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Some good information in here.  I'll add that when you see the locations of the burn piles, they definitely have added lots of P&K to the soil (potash), but wood ash is also high in calcium ...... which helps neutralize soil ph ..... just like lime does.  It takes a lot more wood ash to have the same affect as lime, but that may be one of the biggest factors here.  Like George Shu says ...... lime (wood ash) is the poor mans fertilizer!  

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/more-deer-more-food-better-deer-hunting


----------



## Canuck5

And with a neutralized soil, more nutrients become available to your plants


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> Some good information in here.  I'll add that when you see the locations of the burn piles, they definitely have added lots of P&K to the soil (potash), but wood ash is also high in calcium ...... which helps neutralize soil ph ..... just like lime does.  It takes a lot more wood ash to have the same affect as lime, but that may be one of the biggest factors here.  Like George Shu says ...... lime (wood ash) is the poor mans fertilizer!
> 
> https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/more-deer-more-food-better-deer-hunting


That was a good episode, I just watched it. ?


----------



## Canuck5

Some good info. ....

https://www.facebook.com/WildlifeRe...r-q-a-with-a-dnr-biologist/10153992957888388/


----------



## Canuck5

Antler Growth Bell Curve

https://www.qdma.com/antler-growth-bell-curve/


----------



## Canuck5

If you've got a couple hours and interested in small farm equipment, they cover most all of it in the video included here ...... Fred tends to drags things out a little but .....

https://www.canr.msu.edu/resources/small_farm_machinery


----------



## Canuck5

Supplemental Feeding program evaluation, 2019 study.

http://extension.msstate.edu/deer-u...e-034-want-start-supplemental-feeding-program


----------



## Canuck5

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/spring-food-plots-cover-crop-benefits-with-the-buffalo-system

This episode about water infiltration hit home, for me, because this weekend we brought in another 9 tons of lime and spread it on a couple of brand new "logging deck" food plots and on a couple of existing food plots, that were logged 2 years ago.  I doubt on my new logging decks, that I could get 2" of water to drain away in 2 hours!  We went ahead and spread the lime and I tilled it in the best I could.  Maybe only penetrating the soil an inch or 2 .... maybe.

This picture is of Durana (and weeds and grasses) on a logging deck that I replanted last fall.  It's now breaking up that soil for me, or at least in the top few inches.  The white is from the lime we just spread on it.  A second application over 2 years, since my soil ph was in the high 4's.


----------



## Canuck5

Organic matter .... wished I had more of it, but this year, I will be down to tilling only about 20% of my food plots and only because some of them are brand new and others just need a change.

We are definitely getting into the heat of the summer, but organic matter will help hold whatever moisture is there and also help keep the soil a little cooler.


----------



## Canuck5

Looks like we've got a dry, hot summer ahead of us.  Just thought I would put this out there.  There are lots of areas of the USA, where farmers have to deal with lack of rain on a regular basis.


----------



## Canuck5

Just some added info ......


----------



## Canuck5

Exclusion Cages


----------



## Triple C

Canuck...Put out our 1st ever exclusion cage in one of our clover plots back in April.  We have not had rain in about 4 weeks so the clover is on verge of going dormant but is still the greenest thing we have growing.  Interesting enough...the clover in the exclusion cage is already about 4 inches higher than outside.  I'm amazed at the volume of clover deer, and...unfortunately pigs, eat.  I will post up a pic next time down.  Let's pray for rain!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Triple C said:


> Canuck...Put out our 1st ever exclusion cage in one of our clover plots back in April.  We have not had rain in about 4 weeks so the clover is on verge of going dormant but is still the greenest thing we have growing.  Interesting enough...the clover in the exclusion cage is already about 4 inches higher than outside.  I'm amazed at the volume of clover deer, and...unfortunately pigs, eat.  I will post up a pic next time down.  Let's pray for rain!!!



The cages certainly tell the tale!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Reseeding Forage .......


----------



## Canuck5

Because inquiring minds want to know!  So, the critters do give a little back, from what they take out of our soils!  That's our NPK and various other micro nutrients.


----------



## Canuck5

Maximizing Forage Production.  If you mow your clover, don't mow too soon and don't mow in drought conditions.


----------



## Canuck5

A variety of interesting information in this weeks episode.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/scouting-hot-food-sources-small-food-plots-made-better


----------



## Triple C

Canuck - The thought occurred to me today that practically every question asked about food plotting on this forum can be thoroughly answered within the bowels of this thread.  It is simply priceless with top quality information on all matters relating to food plotting.

Now...back to the tractor debate.


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C!

My preference on tractors is for the ones that "start" when I get to camp!


----------



## Canuck5

This one that I was driving, when I was 8, still starts and runs like a top, today!


----------



## doomtrpr_z71

Well no one on any forum uses the search function


----------



## Canuck5

Some good information in here this week.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/fall-food-plots-and-their-hunting-strategies


----------



## Canuck5

Dry soil planting .... but applies the same to any seeding we do.


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> Hey Canuck, I’ve got a throw n mow question for you. If I were to overseed some cereal grain and brassica into some of my perennial clover plots early-mid Sep and then ran over them with a cultipacker or my big drag flipped over, do you think I would get enough seed to soil contact for decent germination? I’m going to try and not break any ground this year if I can help it.



I think this is exactly what I am going to do with some of my plots (thanks David!).  I'll broadcast a 1/2 rate (maybe less) of perennial clover, a light rate of a cereal grain and maybe a smattering of a couple other things, we'll see.  Then run my cultipacker over top, disturbing the soil a little, but maybe not too much.

My goal will be to help seed to soil contact of the new seed, press in the seed that my old clover has already dropped, while not hurting the old clover that I know is still there and not bring up too much additional weed seed.

I still don't see any rain in the forecast and I may change my mind, but under the conditions I have today, this seems like a good option.  When the rains do come, I know my old clover will be back.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> I think this is exactly what I am going to do with some of my plots (thanks David!).  I'll broadcast a 1/2 rate (maybe less) of perennial clover, a light rate of a cereal grain and maybe a smattering of a couple other things, we'll see.  Then run my cultipacker over top, disturbing the soil a little, but maybe not too much.
> 
> My goal will be to help seed to soil contact of the new seed, press in the seed that my old clover has already dropped, while not hurting the old clover that I know is still there and not bring up too much additional weed seed.
> 
> I still don't see any rain in the forecast and I may change my mind, but under the conditions I have today, this seems like a good option.  When the rains do come, I know my old clover will be back.



My plan is to do the same after a substantial rain but since I have the planter now I will use it with the discs straight for minimum soil disturbance, drop the seed and the cultipacker will press it all down.
Like you I see no rain coming, I haven't even bought seed yet.


----------



## Milkman

Canuck5 said:


> This one that I was driving, when I was 8, still starts and runs like a top, today!
> 
> 
> View attachment 973368


Is that a Farmall 200 ?


----------



## Canuck5

Milkman said:


> Is that a Farmall 200 ?



Nope, a Farmall C ..... My younger brother owns it now.


----------



## Milkman

Canuck5 said:


> Nope, a Farmall C ..... My younger brother owns it now.



The C and 200 are very similar. I think the C has more HP.
 I own a Farmall 200 that has been sitting in a shelter for 13 years. I may piddle with it some after I retire next year.


----------



## Canuck5

Just a study that was done comparing the costs and benefits of planting crimson clover vs wheat (I'd do both together) as an economical wildlife food plot.  

https://www.utm.edu/departments/msanr/_pdfs/1375909599-Barnes_research_project_final.pdf


----------



## Canuck5

Some annual clovers response to soil ph


----------



## Canuck5

My Father hated weeds ...... so bad that we'd be driving by one of our fields and he'd see one lonely pigweed sticking up above the soybeans and he'd stop the truck and make me run out and pull the derned thing.  But he was, in many ways a perfectionist and most of his property bordered traveled roads, so he always felt like his crops had to be the best they could be. 

Long, long before GPS, you could shoot an arrow down one of his straight rows and never touch a plant.  Rows had to be perfect too!

Anyway, good (organic) weed control has a lot to do with timing "when" to plant and how you manage the ground.  No-till or throw and mow might be good options, but not always perfect, but then again, we don't need our plots to be perfect (I'm learning).  Herbicides certainly can be used but just be careful with them, read the instructions and more isn't always better.

Tilling the ground is good weed control.  Think about it.  Till the soil (not too deep), let the weed seeds germinate, till again and you've killed a batch of weed seeds.  Do it again and you've killed some more.  Yes, you are burning organic matter in the soil and that's a problem, but there are worse things you can do, in particular, for leased properties.

So, kill off as many weeds in your seed bank as you can.  Plant when it is the right time for the crop(s) you want to grow.  Fertilize and lime accordingly.  Give that crop the best chance of coming out of the ground and going gang busters,  as quickly as it can so it covers the soil and not let anything else germinate.

Fall planting, timing is an example.  Some weeds in your seed bank will be killed off by frost, if they are young and tender, but your wheat, oats, turnips, radishes, clover, will not be harmed, cover the soil and keep weeds at bay.  Some plants are adapted, to keep other plants (weeds) from germinating, either from a chemical release or "shade".  Allelopathy

https://extension.psu.edu/weed-management-in-organic-cropping-systems


----------



## Canuck5

Salt licks ....... getting near that time to make some new ones or freshen some old ones up, next year.

https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/conservation/foodplotdoc/man-made-mineral-licks.phtml/


----------



## Canuck5

We're seeing more and more feral hogs move on to our property.  This article just brought home a few surprising things to me, plus a few things I had forgotten, like how smart hogs are.  We used to raise them and they definitely were smart.

https://www.farmprogress.com/hog/hog-wild-managing-feral-swine-cropland


----------



## Canuck5

Just another "why it's important to do a soil test and get your ph and nutrients up" quote.


----------



## Canuck5

Each plant, we plant for deer, may have other advantages and benefits for our soil


----------



## Canuck5

On my timber properties, as the tree's grow, my food plots get more and more shade.  Some plots are 1/4 acre, some are 1/2, but most aren't much bigger than that, so I was trying to find some research that will help guide me on my planting options that will grow well, yet the deer will still benefit.

Hog peanuts are the most shade tolerant plant there is (that I've never heard of).  Everything else is less shade tolerant.

https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/jrnl/2007/nrs_2007_vansambeek_002.pdf


----------



## Kdog

Great info, but keep in mind they are called hog peanuts for a reason.


----------



## Canuck5

LOL!!!  You're right!  I don't even know where you could buy seed!  I was more interested in clover selections.  I don't need to encourage any more $#!@@#$$ hogs!  LOL


----------



## Tunaman

doomtrpr_z71 said:


> Well no one on any forum uses the search function


Where is the search function


----------



## Canuck5

Top right corner


----------



## doomtrpr_z71

Tunaman said:


> Where is the search function


On the mobile version it's a magnifying glass on the top right


----------



## Tunaman

Sorry guys I saw it right after i asked the dumb question!!!


----------



## Canuck5

Nutrient Knowledge .... 

https://www.cropnutrition.com/nutrient-knowledge


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Triple C

Canuck...The crowning jewel of all threads in this section.  Such a wealth of knowledge in this thread.  Thx for taking the time to update!


----------



## Canuck5

Thanks Triple C!

When I get back down to the Club, I'll be adding 1 pound per acre of this, to my clover plots, to get some Boron in the soil.  With all the rain we've had, Boron does get washed away.  But not more than 1 pound.

https://www.cropnutrition.com/nutrient-knowledge/boron


----------



## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Thanks Triple C!
> 
> When I get back down to the Club, I'll be adding 1 pound per acre of this, to my clover plots, to get some Boron in the soil.  With all the rain we've had, Boron does get washed away.  But not more than 1 pound.
> 
> https://www.cropnutrition.com/nutrient-knowledge/boron
> 
> View attachment 1009093


cheap micro nutrient. Works in the outhouse also.


----------



## Canuck5

White Clover still stands out as one of the most nutritious and easiest, food plot plants we can grow.  I have added 3/4 of an acre of alfalfa (Bulldog 805) in my plans this year, with the hopes that it's deep tap root will preform well, during a drought, when my white clover goes dormant.

https://animal.ifas.ufl.edu/corn_silage_forage_field_day_extension/2010/docs/myer.pdf  (Lots of new alfalfa varieties have come out since, likely, this study was done)


----------



## Canuck5

I have 3/4 of acre of Alfalfa and 30 feet away 1 acre of white clover.  Right now, (last time I was down) I have seen comparable usage in both, but I suspect that alfalfa will see more usage in the heat of the summer.


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> White Clover still stands out as one of the most nutritious and easiest, food plot plants we can grow.  I have added 3/4 of an acre of alfalfa (Bulldog 805) in my plans this year, with the hopes that it's deep tap root will preform well, during a drought, when my white clover goes dormant.
> 
> https://animal.ifas.ufl.edu/corn_silage_forage_field_day_extension/2010/docs/myer.pdf  (Lots of new alfalfa varieties have come out since, likely, this study was done)
> 
> 
> View attachment 1012656


White clover is definitely the most prevalent crop we have in our plots but I think I’m going to mix in a pretty heavy dose of red clover this fall too when we plant.


----------



## Canuck5

davidhelmly said:


> White clover is definitely the most prevalent crop we have in our plots but I think I’m going to mix in a pretty heavy dose of red clover this fall too when we plant.



Medium Red Clover is always a part of my mix, now!


----------



## Canuck5

I think Grant Woods has lots of good info. this week.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/every-property-is-unique-know-how-to-hunt-it


----------



## davidhelmly

Canuck5 said:


> I think Grant Woods has lots of good info. this week.
> 
> https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/every-property-is-unique-know-how-to-hunt-it


Thanks for the heads up, I use to watch it every Monday but since I've been off on LOA I haven't watched it in several weeks and today's was a good one!!


----------



## Canuck5

Another good informative week!

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/plant-a-small-food-plot-with-hand-tools


----------



## ChattBuck

canuck, whats the absolute latest you think a north georgian could get away with planting radishes/brassica?  I want to wait to till up my dove field till AFTER the first segment ends sept 30th.  Would planting that fall/winter plot with radishes be ok at that time?

Planted this field with wheat in mid october 2019 and it did great.  Just trying to rotate my winter cover.


----------



## Canuck5

Somebody with more experience that far north, can chime in, but I think October 1, might be the absolute last, you should plant.  Your first frost is in the vicinity of October 19th.

Now, having said that and knowing daikon radish and purple top turnip seed is small, moderately cheap, doesn't like to be planted deep, will germinate on top of the soil with rain, I'd go ahead and broadcast that seed, right into your (fill in the blank) dove field, when you want.  You'll get germination at anything above 45 degree soil temperature, when the conditions and moisture is right.

You don't have to do your entire plot, but you can hand crank in whatever you feel like.  It won't be perfect, but shoot any deer that complains about it.  Fertilize after 9/30.

After 9/30 you can do more wheat ... do oats ... do winter peas .... do clover ... do chicory .... lots of other options, for whatever balance of your food plot you have left.





If you have problems, maybe one type or another crop, might help solve it for you


----------



## ChattBuck

Thank you sir. I'll probably top sow the radishes and brassicas in all the strips we cut for the dove in early to mid sept.  Let them get started and not worry about actually tilling up those sections if they'll germinate without being covered.  I've got a couple of mixes and plan to put some wheat into it as well.  

I appreciate your input.


----------



## Canuck5

They will germinate without being covered, as long as they touch dirt and get rain.


----------



## Canuck5

Another good week from Grant ...... I won't be able to apply everything that he suggests because I don't have a no-till drill or a roller crimper, but there are some things I can apply.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/better-food-plots-breaking-down-the-benefits-of-the-buffalo-system


----------



## Canuck5

Small food plots

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/planting-small-food-plots


----------



## Deerhunter12454

Is it too late to get a summer food plot in? I’m wanting to build the soil and not sure if it’s too late.


----------



## Canuck5

I think the key for you right now, is rain, because we are headed into the heat of the summer.

You could try buckwheat or alyce clover.  If you get rain, it will grow!

Right now at our property it's been pretty dry and things are starting to dry up.


----------



## Deerhunter12454

I Guess I’m putting out lime next time I’m down. Going to start no till planting in my plots so I can keep a majority of moisture next summer


----------



## Canuck5

Yes, getting your soil where it needs to be first, allows you many options later on.


----------



## Canuck5

Rag-Doll Testing  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag182 

I had some old seed that I wanted to check the germination rate on, before I spent the time and energy planting them this fall.  They all look reasonably good, after 3 days, so I won't buy more.

Chicory


Radish



Turnips


----------



## Canuck5

I know, I know, we're not trying to raise a crop ... just feed some deer, but soil compaction (driving needlessly in food plots, one of my pet peeves), and working up ground and planting when too wet with a drill, can harm production of your crop.

If you're like me, with just 1% or so of my land, able to plant food plots, I want to maximize my crop.  Dad always used to say, "don't smear the ______ in!"

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...0&utm_campaign=Ontario Daily&utm_medium=email 

This pretty much applies to anything you plant, even throw and mow.


----------



## Gaswamp

did you just soak seed and put in a paper towel>?


Canuck5 said:


> Rag-Doll Testing  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag182
> 
> I had some old seed that I wanted to check the germination rate on, before I spent the time and energy planting them this fall.  They all look reasonably good, after 3 days, so I won't buy more.
> 
> Chicory
> View attachment 1022282
> 
> Radish
> 
> View attachment 1022283
> 
> Turnips
> 
> View attachment 1022285


----------



## Canuck5

Yup, laid dry seed out on a wet paper towel, rolled it up and put it in a plastic sandwich bag and waited.  Right now some roots are growing thru the paper towel.

Ideally, you'd put 100 seeds on it and then count the ones that don't germinate.  So if 10 didn't germinate, you'd know you have 90% germination and adjust your seeding rate accordingly.


----------



## Canuck5

Weeds and their value.  Mother Nature does provide and deer can pick out which weeds are the most nutritious ...... in amongst tall grass.  Compare these weeds to what we plant.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/antler...browse-cool-critter-update-predators-and-prey


----------



## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> Weeds and their value.  Mother Nature does provide and deer can pick out which weeds are the most nutritious ...... in amongst tall grass.  Compare these weeds to what we plant.
> 
> https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/antler...browse-cool-critter-update-predators-and-prey
> 
> View attachment 1027023
> 
> View attachment 1027014
> View attachment 1027019
> View attachment 1027020


Canuck...Don't know what we would do without you providing so much great data to this thread.  It is truly a plotter's encyclopedia.  And to your point, too many folks just don't realize just how much of a deer's annual diet consists of forbs (weeds).  According to Craig Harper - 60% of a deer's annual diet consists of forbs which are the leaves and stems from what we call weeds.

And good ol' ragweed is at the top of their preference list!  The reason many folks don't see it is because it is so heavily browsed by deer, along with many other species of forbs.  I've found ragweed to be highly preferential on my farm.  I love finding it and I guarantee it will almost always be browsed.  Along with blackberries leaves, greenbrier, devil's walking stick, partridge pea, pokeweed, japanese honysuckle and on and on.

I listened to a podcast from Dr. Harper, who most consider one of the leading authorities on deer food, and he said if given the choice between forbs and oaks, he would always choose forbs.  Great stuff brother!


----------



## davidhelmly

I


Triple C said:


> Canuck...Don't know what we would do without you providing so much great data to this thread.  It is truly a plotter's encyclopedia.  And to your point, too many folks just don't realize just how much of a deer's annual diet consists of forbs (weeds).  According to Craig Harper - 60% of a deer's annual diet consists of forbs which are the leaves and stems from what we call weeds.
> 
> And good ol' ragweed is at the top of their preference list!  The reason many folks don't see it is because it is so heavily browsed by deer, along with many other species of forbs.  I've found ragweed to be highly preferential on my farm.  I love finding it and I guarantee it will almost always be browsed.  Along with blackberries leaves, greenbrier, devil's walking stick, partridge pea, pokeweed, japanese honysuckle and on and on.
> 
> I listened to a podcast from Dr. Harper, who most consider one of the leading authorities on deer food, and he said if given the choice between forbs and oaks, he would always choose forbs.  Great stuff brother!


 I agree totally, Canuck is a wealth of knowledge, I think we need to buy him a beer one day to thank him for all time the spends sharing all of his info! 
I’ve got a 60 ac cutover that was cut about 18 months ago and then sprayed and replanted maybe 6 months ago that is absolutely covered up in ragweed, unfortunately it borders a county road so it’s easy to see but the ragweed is waist high and it is FULL of deer every afternoon, they love it!!


----------



## Canuck5

I know we are all getting anxious, me included (who will plant a strip of turnips on 9/12/20)

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/when-to-plant-fall-food-plots-get-ready-for-deer-season


----------



## twoheartedale

Sprayed all my plots this weekend.  Will plant the first of October.


----------



## davidhelmly

I overseeded about 8 acs of existing plots with PTT and radish last weekend.


----------



## Deerhunter12454

Iron clay peas are coming up great. Threw a nurse crow of oats, wheat, and clover into it, once the deer eat all the peas, I’ll over seed with turnips and wheat


----------



## Released123

Clover and Chicory seed arrived last week (thank you Canuck5 for your help). Planning on planting middle of September to first of October.


----------



## Triple C

Love this thread.  Only problem when it becomes a sticky is folks don't visit it as much as it should be visited.  Worth printing and placing in a binder.


----------



## Canuck5

I am going to be trying some clover seed developed in Texas for hotter and dryer conditions.  Just hoping to give myself a slight edge in the heat of the summer.

Barduro medium red clover, which should be a good reseeder and a biennial, which will be used in my 3 clover plots.

Neches perennial white clover, which is an early and good reseeder, and fingers crossed, gives me a slight edge in the heat of the summer.  It is supposed to "seed out" earlier than Durana.  We'll see!

I found these optimum (soil) germination temperature charts for a variety of clovers, and once again, for the most part, let the soil temperatures cool off, before spending lots of time and money, planting expensive clover.  The "sweet spot" might be between 50F and 60F, for most clovers.

https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2134/age2018.11.0059

Find your soil temperature here.

http://www.georgiaweather.net/?content=tr&variable=XS


----------



## Canuck5

An oldie, but a goodie.  You can grow deer, thru your dirt!

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/whitetail-antlers-and-genetics-fact-or-fiction (thanks Adam)


----------



## Canuck5

I might as well throw this one back out there, too!

https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/deermanagement_wt_202foodplots/264184


----------



## Canuck5

Oh, what the heck .... since it's planting season ....... "Why do food plots fail?"


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Tunaman

Got anything grows under water? We got water 3' above normal here


----------



## Canuck5

Rice!!!  (sorry, not much help here)  Good luck, but hopefully it passes soon!


----------



## Canuck5

Who'd a thunk?  A clover selection guide!   Once again, improving your soil ph, opens up other variety options for you.

https://forages.oregonstate.edu/matchclover/species-selection-tool/species-selection-tool

Species

https://forages.oregonstate.edu/matchclover/species

USDA Plant Hardiness Zone

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/phzmweb/interactivemap.aspx

These maps show species suited for both climate and unimproved soil ph.


----------



## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5

"The right food plots for herd health and hunting success"

A good read and also highlighting the importance of legumes in a deers diet.

https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/right-food-plots-herd-health-hunting-success/385302



And grains (so plant a buffet!)


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## Canuck5

Since I am making a second attempt at growing alfalfa, I found this interesting, plus I leaned a little more about Boron and the need for it.  Alfalfa needs probably twice as much B than clover does, but clover still needs it.

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...-soil-health-with-nutrition-for-higher-yield/


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## Canuck5

This was a study done by Charles Alsheimer (RIP) that I read many years ago, but could never find it again.   I meant to add that this study talks about Imperial Whitetail Institute Clover being browsed, however, I believe clover in general is still King.  Preferrably a perennial white clover.

http://www.wildlifeseeds.com/whitetail/info/whitetaildeer-prefer.html


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## Triple C

Canuck - I'll say it again...This thread is worth printing and putting in a binder.  If you can't find it in here you prolly not gonna find it anywhere.  Thx for continuing to add valuable info to this thread.


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## Canuck5

Doe harvest and food plots

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/do-you-need-to-harvest-more-does-scout-now-to-decide


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## Canuck5




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## Canuck5

A vote for the buffet

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/bigger-antlers-and-healthier-fawns-winter-food-plot-check-list


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## Tunaman

Sound like a bunch of farmers around here....


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## Canuck5

Does organic matter really matter?

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...1&utm_campaign=Ontario Daily&utm_medium=email


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## Canuck5

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/food-plots-that-feed-deer-and-the-soil


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## Canuck5

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsess...ld-mature-bucks-on-your-property-besides-food


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## Canuck5

Reclaiming land for pasture ..... or food plots .... 

https://southeastagriseeds.com/blog...ccessional-planting-perennial-pasture-success


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## Canuck5

Improving soil health

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/improving-soil-health-how-conserving-moisture-will-grow-bigger-antlers


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## Canuck5

Organic weed control ...... giving your seeds a chance to compete against weeds.


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## Canuck5

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/its-time-to-plant-food-plot-tips-part-1


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## Canuck5

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/food-plot-tips-how-to-have-more-forage-and-healthier-soils-part-2


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## Canuck5

https://southeastagriseeds.com/site...for small acreage & limited equipment (1).pdf


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## Canuck5

So, you want to be a farmer??  Looks like UGA has some online classes.

https://extension.uga.edu/calendar/event/18579/So You Want To Be A Farmer.html


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## Canuck5

If you have an hour and interested in soil health ....

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...1&utm_campaign=Ontario Daily&utm_medium=email


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> Organic weed control ...... giving your seeds a chance to compete against weeds.



Soil cultivation is making a strong comeback. I'm sure the no till folks will still poo poo it.


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## Canuck5

If you have an hour and 40 minutes, it's pretty good.


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## Canuck5

Some words from Kent Kammermeyer

https://forum.gon.com/threads/kents-korner.2273/


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## Canuck5

Now, where did I leave my sharp pencil?

https://fwf.tennessee.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2020/07/Calculating-Proper-Seedling-Rate.pdf


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## Canuck5




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## Canuck5




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## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> Some words from Kent Kammermeyer
> 
> https://forum.gon.com/threads/kents-korner.2273/


This one is worth printing and putting in a binder for future reference.  Thx for digging this up!


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## Canuck5

Look at the bottom of the "sticky threads".  Elfiii might have jumped on it!  

"Kent's Korner"


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## Canuck5

A little more on soil ...


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## Stainlessman

Amazing seeing the food plots folks plant elsewhere in the country. 
Here in Maine we have rocks. Lots and lots of rocks. From baseball size to well car size. I have a three acre field that was wooded and was stumped and cleared and ive picked rocks for years. Maybe some areas i could use a tiller but still alot of rocks around. What needs to be done is an excavator brought in and lots rocks pulled. Holes filled and loam and clover spread. Then i could make a food plot.


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## Canuck5

Don't feel special ....... we grow them down here!


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## GeorgeShu

I like your stone boat!!
Brings back memories of harvesting the annual crop of stone.


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## Canuck5

Yes! My Grandfathers "stone boat" served many purposes!!


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## Canuck5

https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/do-your-deer-have-adequate-browse/262318

Check out the video

So, where might your deer be right now?  Probably looking for some woody browse.



Last fall, I planted some green brier seeds in multiple cages to keep some control of it.  We have 550 acres of leased timber property and I put these cages on the edge of our food plots.  The green brier seed has to go thru a cold cycle, for it to germinate, so we will see how that experiment turns out, in a few months.

Just something else I am trying, to keep deer on our property.


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## Canuck5

With the price of fertilizer going up and expected to go higher, farmers are looking at all their options, these days.


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## Canuck5

Just starting to get some plans together, for a February work weekend and one of those jobs, will be freshening up our mineral sites.  For me, each site gets one block or bag of pure salt and one block or bag of mineral salt .... so 100 pounds/site.  We have 14 sites.

https://www.northamericanwhitetail....eer/videos/383776/dr-deer-mineral-lick/230894


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## Canuck5

The longer your bucks hold their antlers, and not shed, is a sign of their good health and are under low stress.  

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/how-bucks-shed-their-antlers


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## ventilator

Canuck5 said:


> Just starting to get some plans together, for a February work weekend and one of those jobs, will be freshening up our mineral sites.  For me, each site gets one block or bag of pure salt and one block or bag of mineral salt .... so 100 pounds/site.  We have 14 sites.
> 
> https://www.northamericanwhitetail....eer/videos/383776/dr-deer-mineral-lick/230894


Try a combo of 50lbs Dicalcium Phosphate 50lbs Trace Minerals 50lbs Dried Molasses

Deer will be on it fast and more beneficial than salt or mineral salt alone.


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## Canuck5

I used to use that mix many years ago, but really stopped when the price per 50 pound bag of di-calcium got above $20/bag.  I'm cheap (with many sites) and I admit it, until it comes to properly maintained food plots, where I like to think is where our deer will get the calcium and phosphorous they need.  Salt is harder to come by, for them at the right time they need it.




And there have been studies done to see what attracted deer

https://fwf.tennessee.edu/wp-conten.../07/Mineral-article-TN-Academy-of-Science.pdf



I'm not suggesting that you change what works for you, because it seems to be working.

Even some of the more popular "minerals" you can buy, contain the same amount of salt, in the salt blocks I buy.  The only difference is my salt is cheaper.



But for me, the bottom line is having the most nutritious food plots I can grow and a salt lick.


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## Canuck5

For those who own your land, cover cropping really is what we do with food plots and they do have long term benefits, when done over time.  With the price of fertilizer, lime, salt, herbicides, etc going up, paying a little attention to the soil can help.

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...2&utm_campaign=Ontario Daily&utm_medium=email

Unfortunately, for the portion of our club land, which is leased, we see this far too often, but it is, what it is!



But, I think this clearing will have some deer hunting benefits!  Mother Nature and a few nice rains this spring, it will be a changed landscape by fall.


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## b8hickman

Dr. Grant on growingdeer.tv has been prompting this for several years. I can't afford a seed drill though. Last year I stopped discing and just throw seed out at a heavier rate then bushhog over it. So far it's working fine.


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## Canuck5

Why clover (legumes/protein) is so important this time of year.  Clover is growing away right now and providing the right nutrients for all the critters.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/attract-deer-and-turkey-all-year


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## Canuck5

I didn't know ........


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## Canuck5




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## Canuck5

Soil temperature to plant a summer crop and why I no mow no mo.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/the-best-guide-on-when-to-plant-food-plots

And you can check your soil temperatures here, as well.

http://www.georgiaweather.net/?content=tr&variable=XS


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## Canuck5

The study that Grant was referring to, done by Dr. Craig Harpers "intern".  It starts at about 15:40

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-h84ff-10af48d


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## Canuck5

So true ....


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## Canuck5

Hard water and weed control.  

https://www.realagriculture.com/202...2&utm_campaign=Ontario Daily&utm_medium=email


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## Canuck5

A guide to common native deer forages in the southeast.

http://extension.msstate.edu/public...ve-deer-forages-mississippi-and-the-southeast


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## Stainlessman

I have a few acres here, three are field that I keep mowed. Here boarder pines are always trying to seed in. My field is wild blueberries and grass and ferns. Deer feed there but I'd like to plant clover. I see a field near me that the farmer tilled and seeded with clover. A few months later it was loaded with deer. Then he cut and bailed it for his cattle. 
My issue is rocks. Here in new england we have rocks. Mt Washington nick named 
The Rock Pile by meteorologist here. My field was wooded and I had it cleared and stumped. But still lots of rocks. I have a 38 hp tractor and have never bought a tiller for it but possibly in the spring I will and try to seed some clover.


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## Canuck5

Spend $10 on a soil test, telling them that you want to plant a perennial white clover as well as a medium red clover, in a mix and they will tell you how much lime, P&K you need to ad, and start there.  Add a cereal grain as a cover crop as well, like wheat or oats.

Talk to the farmer that had the clover you admired and ask him what he planted, as well.

If it was me, with lots of rocks, I might buy a good spreader and a good sprayer.  Spread your fertilizer (P&K) and lime, then spray your plot with glyphosate (RoundUp).  Wait a couple of days and broadcast your clover over top, then mow everything down.

Manage your clover with herbicides like Clethodim (plus a surfactant) for grass and 2,4d-b for broad leaf weeds.  Let it always go to seed. to help it keep coming back.




https://extension.umaine.edu/publications/2261e/#white-clover


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## Canuck5

Different types of root systems .... for crops and weeds.  It cam make killing some weeds a lot more difficult.


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## Canuck5

With the price of fertilizer today ....


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## Released123

Canuck5 said:


> With the price of fertilizer today ....


Good stuff


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> If it was me, with lots of rocks, I might buy a good spreader and a good sprayer.  Spread your fertilizer (P&K) and lime, then spray your plot with glyphosate (RoundUp).  Wait a couple of days and broadcast your clover over top, then mow everything down.



For comparison purposes here's what "lots of rocks" looks like.







And here's the damage they can cause.


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## Canuck5

Maybe stop fertilizing your rock garden so much .... cut back a little.


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> Maybe stop fertilizing your rock garden so much .... cut back a little.



0-20-20 is about as cutback as I can get. It's actually not a food plot. It's a rock quarry that I try to get a food plot to grow in.

Last year the clover was ankle deep in this plot. A dry, hot Summer put an end to that.


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## Canuck5

I feel your pain!  Mine are not pretty!


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> I feel your pain!  Mine are not pretty!



I put down a triple dose of lime and 8-24-24 Tuesday. I'm hoping this rain brings new life to my clover.


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## Canuck5

It should, along with the cool temps, it should start coming back to life, along with the "seed" it probably dropped earlier in the year.


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## elfiii

Canuck5 said:


> It should, along with the cool temps, it should start coming back to life, along with the "seed" it probably dropped earlier in the year.



I overseeded it too so I got my fangers crossed and double crossed.


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## breathe in

.


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## Canuck5

Soil compaction seems to be one of my biggest problems, whether it is from the timber guys coming in or "members" thinking it's ok to drive around on the food plots.  This is for corn, but it really applies to anything we grow.









						Corn School: Managing roots for higher yield
					

From moisture to nutrients, plant roots play a critical role in feeding corn throughout the growing season. On this episode of the RealAgriculture Corn School, Sullivan Agro agronomist Paul Sullivan looks at some of the problems growing plants can run into as they push down into the soil looking...




					www.realagriculture.com


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## Crakajak

Canuck5 said:


> Soil compaction seems to be one of my biggest problems, whether it is from the timber guys coming in or "members" thinking it's ok to drive around on the food plots.  This is for corn, but it really applies to anything we grow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corn School: Managing roots for higher yield
> 
> 
> From moisture to nutrients, plant roots play a critical role in feeding corn throughout the growing season. On this episode of the RealAgriculture Corn School, Sullivan Agro agronomist Paul Sullivan looks at some of the problems growing plants can run into as they push down into the soil looking...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.realagriculture.com


I would always add some diacon radishes in every food plot.Its not a cure all but does help with soil compaction for us folks with rocks,red clay,and less than smart members.


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## Canuck5

For sure! And the deer like them too


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## TomC

Lush Ladino at the end of August down to bare dirt late October due to extreme drought. A little effort, rain, fertilizer and cereal rye and its back to life!


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## Canuck5

Picture perfect!


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## Canuck5

I found this one pretty interesting


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## Triple C

Canuck5 said:


> I found this one pretty interesting


I never miss an episode of their podcast and YouTube updates.  Great resource!


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## Triple C

Like many on here, planted late September ahead of the supposedly major rain event of Ivan. (Think that was the name).

Seed sat in ground for a month with no rain.  Late October a lil rain and then Nov saw a little more.  You gotta love Mother Nature!

Love the Pennington Rackmaster fall blend as it contains a lot of daikon radish, clover and AWP.  But expensive when planting north of 12 acres.  On most of the plots we use the typical fall blend of cereal grains and add daikon radish to the mix.  Deer are beginning to hammer the plots and will only increase in activity as we head into December.


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## NCHillbilly

elfiii said:


> 0-20-20 is about as cutback as I can get. It's actually not a food plot. It's a rock quarry that I try to get a food plot to grow in.
> 
> Last year the clover was ankle deep in this plot. A dry, hot Summer put an end to that.


We would call that a nice clear rock-free spot up here.


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## Canuck5




----------



## davidhelmly

Triple C said:


> Like many on here, planted late September ahead of the supposedly major rain event of Ivan. (Think that was the name).
> 
> Seed sat in ground for a month with no rain.  Late October a lil rain and then Nov saw a little more.  You gotta love Mother Nature!
> 
> Love the Pennington Rackmaster fall blend as it contains a lot of daikon radish, clover and AWP.  But expensive when planting north of 12 acres.  On most of the plots we use the typical fall blend of cereal grains and add daikon radish to the mix.  Deer are beginning to hammer the plots and will only increase in activity as we head into December.
> 
> View attachment 1190498View attachment 1190500View attachment 1190501View attachment 1190502


Your plots look really good TC!


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## Triple C

davidhelmly said:


> Your plots look really good TC!


Thx David.  You know they really shine come December when most of the mast is gone.  Lot of hard work in my plots over the years to get them where they are today.

But I swear...Every September when I realize how much it costs to plant I think I'm gonna cut back...until this time of year when the deer start piling in em.


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## rstallings1979

Did you use the firminator to plant those?  Looking to pull the trigger on one in 2023.  Either that or a woods. 


Triple C said:


> Thx David.  You know they really shine come December when most of the mast is gone.  Lot of hard work in my plots over the years to get them where they are today.
> 
> But I swear...Every September when I realize how much it costs to plant I think I'm gonna cut back...until this time of year when the deer start piling in em.


----------



## Triple C

rstallings1979 said:


> Did you use the firminator to plant those?  Looking to pull the trigger on one in 2023.  Either that or a woods.


Yes on the Firminator.  Pretty sure you would be pleased with either.  Local dealer I use carries Firminator.  Love that thing.


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## Canuck5

A lot more in here than just prescribed fire talk


----------



## Canuck5

Do brassica food plots get sweeter after a frost?


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## Canuck5




----------



## Canuck5




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## Canuck5

Have you ever seen deer eating dead mulberry leaves?


__
		https://www.tiktok.com/video/7168975548620737835


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## Gaswamp

Canuck5 said:


> Have you ever seen deer eating dead mulberry leaves?
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.tiktok.com/video/7168975548620737835


very interesting..I planted a mulberry tree a couple of years ago and in the spring when it green up they would wear the new growth out...Unfortunatly the tree didn't make it


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## Canuck5

If you can get mulberry tree's to grow, they produce a lot of fruit .... the birds carry the seed off and new mulberry tree's start elsewhere and the deer will browse those, as well.  If they mature, along with eating the fruit, it looks like they will eat the dead leaves as well.  Just something more to keep the deer on your property.


----------

