# Everything chevy STINKS!



## Mako22 (Mar 21, 2010)

Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!

Chevy = garbage
American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 21, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug



Yeah? Why not just go buy a hybrid Toyota....and maybe a helmet.  Let us know where to send the flowers.


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## Craig Knight (Mar 21, 2010)

Quick see if you can go out and pick up one of the Toyotas that has the breaks that dont work. Let us know how that works out for ya.


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## Gaducker (Mar 21, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug





Did it just start leaking?


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## chicken cow (Mar 21, 2010)

Craig Knight said:


> Quick see if you can go out and pick up one of the Toyotas that has the breaks that dont work. Let us know how that works out for ya.



yeah guess the new yota's did have problems, but why did chevys even need break's?...the transmission goes out at 100,000? how could you even compare the two? Eveybody know's toyota's last longer than ford or chevy. All the new vehicles are bad, but who would wanna buy a new one anyway?...unless you felt like throwing money away!


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## KILLBOT (Mar 21, 2010)

*They ran out of glue surely*

Doraville Assembly was a General Motors automobile factory in Doraville, Georgia. The plant opened in 1947 and closed on 26 September 2008 as part of the company's cost-cutting measures. Your van was made there from 1997-2005

Your window was part of the cost cutting measures.


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## david w. (Mar 21, 2010)

go buy a ford!


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## firebiker (Mar 21, 2010)

*GM Govt. motors.
Chevy should have gone out of business, any other company that was broke and corupt would have folded and chevorlet should have been allowed to also.
your tax dollars bailed them out and that was a huge mistake.
I have drove a bunch of chevys in the past and have a chevy truck now but my next vehicle will not be and never again !*


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## david w. (Mar 21, 2010)

As i always say.If you drive a chevy you support obama.


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## Nicodemus (Mar 21, 2010)

Anything is prone to break, at any given time. No matter who made it.


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 21, 2010)

david13 said:


> As i always say.If you drive a chevy you support obama.



I was driving Chevrolets long before I ever heard of an Obama. I guarantee you I don't support anything about him.



Nicodemus said:


> Anything is prone to break, at any given time. No matter who made it.


X 1000000000000

Every car manufacturer out there will make the occasional 'lemon'. No matter if it's a $80K Mercedes or a $10K Kia. Ain't NObody's vehicle perfect.


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## BROWNING7WSM (Mar 21, 2010)

what do you expect from a company that , well really went out of business if it wasnt for tax payers...


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## lt kennels (Mar 21, 2010)

*Way to support the u.s.*



Woodsman69 said:


> Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug


You are adding to why we are getting in this shape there are lemons in all cars and trucks go get a new toyota my friends blew up at 1900 miles but it was under warranty and so was yours eat less rice more fries!!!


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## BROWNING7WSM (Mar 21, 2010)

david13 said:


> As i always say.If you drive a chevy you support obama.





Gov't Motors    SUX !!


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## hoochfisher (Mar 21, 2010)

doraville made van. 

i worked in the rail yard that shipped them out. many, many mornings we came in to work, 4 out of 7 day a week, for them to be on hold because they forgot to do something at the plant. 

even a few times of them "forgeting" the transmission mounting bolts! how do you build cars and forget to bolt in a transmission?!

and it wasnt just the doraville product either. seen many times when a rail car was opened up for unloading, parts had fallen off during shipping, such as doors and hoods. 

after working in that rail yard i can honestly say, 

I WILL NEVER OWN A VEHICHLE MADE BY GM!!!!


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cracked Head Every Valve Rattles Oil Leaks Every Time!


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## tcward (Mar 21, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug



Guess everybody needs to own one OM vehicle to figure out they don't want another! (OM-Obama Motors)


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## ninetyatews6 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have drove my share of chevys and fords. I hate fords but I have had more issues with chevy than anything else.
I will be getting another brand when we decide to upgrade. 
We have a suzuki and a chevy tahoe right now. The suzuki has 198k and the tahoe has 140k. 
Suzuki part replacement list = rebuilt alternator, new radiator. Total of $110.

Tahoe= Radiator, window messed up, oil leak (small), brake issue, rear hatch seal (leaks water), brake lights quit working. 

I had a 2003 Silverado last year. The steering wheel made a popping sound when you turned. There was a TSB out on it. One or two other small things about the truck. Overall I had a good truck but they are just slacking on quality as a whole. I would much rather buy a Kia, Nissan or something as a daily driver.


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 21, 2010)

hoochfisher said:


> doraville made van.
> 
> i worked in the rail yard that shipped them out. many, many mornings we came in to work, 4 out of 7 day a week, for them to be on hold because they forgot to do something at the plant.
> 
> ...


The same thing can be said about just about any car manufacturer. I went to school with a number of people who work(ed) for Toyota's Southeastern distribution plant in Commerce. I hear a bunch of them say similar things about Toyotas, and they wouldn't own one. Just like talking to several acquaintances who work as ASE techs at Ford dealerships.....won't drive Fords.

This debate could go on and on.


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## wickedjester (Mar 21, 2010)

I love my chevy's,2008 Silverado,1972 C10

I have owned all brands.

Ford trucks are great to me,not many Ford cars I will own unless its a Mustang.

I think quality is down on all products these days,not just American cars.............

Good luck on a resolve and next vehicle purchase


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## BAMBIDEER (Mar 21, 2010)

there are lemons in them.i only drive chevrolet,  but i did see a ford go somewhere the other day you wont see a chevrolet go,    it was in a junk yard:rolf:


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## winchester1970 (Mar 21, 2010)

We have 3 Chevy's at work and all have 250,000+ miles on them and I would not worry one bit about heading out somewhere in either of them. I own a 2008 Corvette and a 2009 GMC Sierra 4x4 and I am proud of both them. I have driven Chevy's for the past 17 years and aside regular maintenance,gas and tires I have not been out of pocket more than $1000 total for all of them. I have been allowed to drive many makes of vehicles in my travels through work and can honestly say they all have their faults. I am not a supporter of Obama or his administration and did not support the auto bailouts we paid for. I do try and support an American company whenever I can especially if I believe they can and do make a good product. Not saying the Asian companies do not make a good product, just saying they as well have their own problems.This is evident as we are seeing them scramble from all of their cover ups they have been hiding. Thanks for letting me get on my "soapbox" for a little while.


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## THERAKE (Mar 21, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Now my 2005 Chevy Venture has a leak around the windshield glass that is draining into my roof liner and coming out into the van where the interior control buttons are located in the roof liner. Great I guess the highly skilled American workers  at Chevy couldn't figure out how to properly seal a windshield. This is just one item in a long list of problems I have had with this wonderful Chevy product. This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug



Why dont you show us all of your maint records and also a car fax showing this vehicle hasnt been wrecked.I am a gm master tech at a dealership and know all of the common problems with these vehicles.I assume you have done intake gaskets,trans and probably a fuel pump or wiring for pump.They did have some problems with these vans but over all they last for a long time if you maintain them properly.How many times have you flushed the trans,coolant brake system?Also how many times have you done a throttlebody and decarb svc?So before you go trashing the American car lines I suggest you do your part with the maint.I agree with that the union causing most of the problems in the plants with gm,ford and chrysler but the last thing we need in this country right now is for everyone to start buying imports.Thats the reason this country is in the shape its in due to buying everything from overseas and forgetting who put this country on top.OUR GRANDPARENTS and GREAR GRANDPARENTS.Those are the people who worked hard and put it all on the line for this country.SO SUPPORT IT!Good or bad every car outhere has problems!


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 22, 2010)

Even with the recent conspiracy against toyota they are still far better than a chevy. I own ford and toyota would never think about owning a chevy, seen way to many junk products from them, all with less than 70k on them.


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## contender* (Mar 22, 2010)

I own a 2002 2500 HD with the 8.1 liter engine and Allison tranny with 135,000. I have replaced ONE part on this truck in the past 5 years not counting oil, filters and tires. That was a front hub assembly. It's the absolute best truck I have ever owned and I have owned them all except for a dodge. I drive what will get me there. I'm not a brand hater. I've got a 2006 ford explorer that I've already had to replace the radiator and one power window switch, it's a good car, things just go bad sometimes. Put on your big girl panties and fix it.


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 22, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Even with the recent conspiracy against toyota they are still far better than a chevy. I own ford and toyota would never think about owning a chevy, seen way to many junk products from them, all with less than 70k on them.



Pretty sure I mentioned it before, but when I worked for Q-Lube back in the day, we serviced this late 80's Chevrolet C1500 work truck every 3000 miles. The man moved away but continued getting the truck serviced at the local Q-Lube in the town he moved to. All of our computers were tied together....so they had access to all of his service records from our shop in their database. The truck eventually surpassed the 1 Million mile mark.....on the ORIGINAL drivetrain. Chevrolet GAVE the man a brand new truck for his loyalty.


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## DBM78 (Mar 22, 2010)

contender* said:


> I own a 2002 2500 HD with the 8.1 liter engine and Allison tranny with 135,000. I have replaced ONE part on this truck in the past 5 years not counting oil, filters and tires. That was a front hub assembly. It's the absolute best truck I have ever owned and I have owned them all except for a dodge. I drive what will get me there. I'm not a brand hater. I've got a 2006 ford explorer that I've already had to replace the radiator and one power window switch, it's a good car, things just go bad sometimes. Put on your big girl panties and fix it.



You say you replaced a front hub assembly but what was wrong with it? Why the whole hub assembly? I know why my wife had a 2003 Blazer that needed a new wheel bearing but the only way to replace it was to buy a new hub assembly for $425.00. I have replaced wheel bearings on my Mustang for about $3.00 a piece. I have worked at both Ford and GMC and have to say Ford beats GM hands down. Back when I worked at GMC the service techs would be changing out the headers on a Trans Am and have to drop the whole front end to work on it. Every tried to tune up a Trans Am or Camero yourself good luck. Service tech would have to have the VIN number to look up parts for a car because the same year model would have 3 different types of parts. Everything is made of plastic with GM fenders, doors and hood.


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 23, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> Pretty sure I mentioned it before, but when I worked for Q-Lube back in the day, we serviced this late 80's Chevrolet C1500 work truck every 3000 miles. The man moved away but continued getting the truck serviced at the local Q-Lube in the town he moved to. All of our computers were tied together....so they had access to all of his service records from our shop in their database. The truck eventually surpassed the 1 Million mile mark.....on the ORIGINAL drivetrain. Chevrolet GAVE the man a brand new truck for his loyalty.



So a GM is the only 1 to accomplish that?


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## copenhagen cowboy (Mar 23, 2010)

why would you support the overseas market? Look at America now, the foreign companys are having just as many if not more problems with their autos.  How many people have been killed because of toyota's bad design, and how many recalls have toyota had over the past year because of faulty design? Now tell me how many people have died due to faulty or bad design from ford,gm,or dodge?? BUY AMERICAN!!!!


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## FX Jenkins (Mar 23, 2010)

02 Tahoe, 145,000.  Had to replace the horn fuze the other day...oh, and I've pulled a few Navigators and explorers out of the ditch/sand.


oh, and I used to have a dog named Chevy....he was good and loyal too.


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## sharpeblades (Mar 23, 2010)

*Buy "AMERICAN"*

Buy "AMERICAN "or were all going to be sorry down the road


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## MonroeTaco (Mar 23, 2010)

copenhagen cowboy said:


> why would you support the overseas market? Look at America now, the foreign companys are having just as many if not more problems with their autos.  How many people have been killed because of toyota's bad design, and how many recalls have toyota had over the past year because of faulty design? Now tell me how many people have died due to faulty or bad design from ford,gm,or dodge?? BUY AMERICAN!!!!



Can't say how many have DIED, but this is just a 2 minute search for major recalls for several auto manufacturers, foreign and "AMERICAN". Everything mechanical can/will fail, regardless of who made it.

Following are details on some previous major auto recalls.

1971 - General Motors [GM.UL] recalls 6.7 million vehicles due to engine mounts that separated from the vehicle and impacted the throttle.

1981 - GM recalls 5.8 million vehicles due to loose suspension bolts that affected steering.

1996 - Ford <F.N> recalls more than 8 million vehicles to replace defective ignition switches that could cause electrical shorts and engine fires.

July 1998 - GM recalls close to 1 million Cadillac, Pontiac and Chevrolet cars because of fears the air bags could deploy by accident.

Aug. 2000 - Japanese tyre maker Bridgestone Corp <5108.T> recalls 14.4 million ATX, ATX II and Wilderness tyres installed on Ford's Explorer SUVs and sold separately in stores. The recall applies to all tyres produced at its Firestone U.S. division.

2004 - GM recalls nearly 4 million pickups because of corroding tailgate cables.

April 2005 - GM says it recalls more than 2 million vehicles to fix a variety of potential safety defects. GM says the largest of the safety actions relates to problems with 2nd-row seat belts on 1.5 million full-size pickups and SUVs from 2003-05 model years.

Oct. 2005 - Toyota recalls 1.4 million cars globally, including the Corolla and 15 other models, due to trouble with the headlight switching systems.

Dec. 2007 - Chrysler LLC says it would recall more than 575,000 vehicles as long-term wear on the gear shift assembly could cause a shift out of Park without the key in the ignition. The recall involves 2001-02 model-year Dodge Dakota pickups, Durango SUVs and Ram vans and 2002 Ram pickups.

Aug. 2008 - GM announces recall of 857,735 vehicles equipped with a heated windshield wiper fluid system that could cause a short-circuit.

Sept. 2009 - Toyota says to recall around 3.8 million vehicles in the U.S. because of floor mats that could come loose and force down the accelerator. The problem is suspected in crashes that killed 5 people.

Oct. 2009 - Ford completes a series of recalls affecting 14 million vehicles due to a faulty cruise control deactivation switch. The latest recall effectively closes out a 10-year saga over the switches.

Jan. 2010 - Honda <7267.T> recalls 646,000 Fit/Jazz and City cars globally over a faulty window switch after a child died in 2009 when fire broke out in a car.

-- Toyota's problems impact other automakers, too: France's PSA Peugeot Citroen <PEUP.PA> says to recall nearly 100,000 Peugeot 107s and Citroen C1s made in the Czech Republic at a plant where Toyota and PSA jointly make cars. [ID:nLDE60T0B9]

Feb. 2010 - Toyota announces that 216,000 cars in Germany, Europe's biggest car market, and 180,000 in Britain are included in the mass recall to fix an accelerator pedal problem. Some 8 million Toyota vehicles are now up for repair globally, including the floor mat issue. Overall, the unintended acceleration issue has been linked to up to 19 crash deaths in the United States.

-- Toyota prepares to recall some 300,000 hybrid Prius models after safety regulators in the U.S. and Japan launch probes into braking problems. The car, a pioneer in gasoline-electric hybrids, was Japan's top-selling car in 2009.


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## copenhagen cowboy (Mar 23, 2010)

your right all have faults,, but this is America,, why support the foreign countries.. I have owned every make and model there is, and dodge is one of my favorites, and ford up second, not defending any auto maker, but now days just cannot stand for someone to buy and help support foreign countries.


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## MonroeTaco (Mar 23, 2010)

It's a global economy, I doubt you'll find much that is truly and completely made in America. My best friend's dad used to be so proud of his old 89 Dodge for being "American" until I showed him all the parts on the engine had Mitsubishi written on them. For what it's worth, I went from Toyota to Ford, so I'm not brand loyal. The only Chevy I had was an old S-10 and was a piece of crapola.


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## GONoob (Mar 23, 2010)

For those bashing foreign mfg's.
http://www.mycarstats.com/reports/complaints.aspx
http://www.mycarstats.com/reports/recalls.aspx

Here are some good reads.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/american.cars/
http://www.achievemax.com/blog/2009/08/17/what-is-an-american-made-car/
While I'm all for supporting American made cars, they really really need to step it up.

I still feel GM has to get their act together. I bought a GM Savana 1500 after the bailout. Customer service was very poor. I had to wait 2 hours just to even see the car, even after making an appointment the day before. They even tried to bribe me by offering a free tank of gas if I gave them an A+ on their report card. Oh yeah, the sales manager gave me an earful on the ethics of car buying. SERIOUSLY MAN?!


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## Washington95 (Mar 23, 2010)

Crap could/might happen to any of them, but here's my tale of woe about my Chev Z-71.

Horn stopped blowing about two weeks ago.  Then, without any warning (snap, crackle, pop) the tailgate won't let down.

About that time my son noticed a tail light out (no big problem probably, except that you access the guts with the tail gate down.

So I calls my local GM dealer.  He (more or less chuckles, I know him pretty well by now) and says it's probably a simple switch, but it's in the airbag.  How about $800 for the part????  Then probably the labor.  

Call to GM to see if they'll help or cover.  Had to take it to dealer for "professional" diagnosis.  Yep, have to have a new airbag.

If GM don't fix it I ain't either.  

And no, I'm not going to buy another GM product.  (This was about my truck, ask me about my LeSabre sometime).  Thinking Toyota, maybe Nissan; not sure.  They're probably all junk, but I've got some experience with GM.  I've bought new GM products since 1973, but not more (not until I find something worse).


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 23, 2010)

GONoob said:


> For those bashing foreign mfg's.
> http://www.mycarstats.com/reports/complaints.aspx
> http://www.mycarstats.com/reports/recalls.aspx
> 
> ...



I hate to say this... but, see what america has done to toyota, the same thing that happened to the BIG 3! You dont see any problems with the ones made in japan. whats the deal?


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## DBM78 (Mar 23, 2010)

copenhagen cowboy said:


> your right all have faults,, but this is America,, why support the foreign countries.. I have owned every make and model there is, and dodge is one of my favorites, and ford up second, not defending any auto maker, but now days just cannot stand for someone to buy and help support foreign countries.



You said Dodge LOL  . An automaker that should of went under in the 80's. They "Dodge/Chrysler" are the worst made cars in U.S.A. The problems with cars build in America is the auto unions. American automakers have to pay their workers more than foreign automakers. The higher wage for American workers is past on to the buyers. Its a simple question should I pay more for a sub par vehicle because its built in the U.S.A or should I pay less for a superior vehicle from a foreign automaker? I have made my choice I have a Toyota Tacoma and a Honda Accord sitting in the driveway. My wife bought a brand new 2006 Accord for $16,300.00 it came to $18,500 after tax and fees. Show me a American made car that is as nice or reliable as it has been for that price. You won't find one. It gets over 30 mpg and I have never turned a wrench on it. It now has over 130,000 miles .


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## DBM78 (Mar 23, 2010)

copenhagen cowboy said:


> why would you support the overseas market? Look at America now, the foreign companys are having just as many if not more problems with their autos.  How many people have been killed because of toyota's bad design, and how many recalls have toyota had over the past year because of faulty design? Now tell me how many people have died due to faulty or bad design from ford,gm,or dodge?? BUY AMERICAN!!!!



Read my above post. Everything you hear about Toyota on the news is just a media smear campaign. Do a little research you might be surprised by what you find out. The media did do a little bit of digging in that guy in CA with his "runaway" Prius what did they find out he was lying. They tested his car for over 2 hours and couldn't get it to do what he claimed. Also the back up safety feature where when the gas and brakes are both pressed at the sametime kills the motor also worked fine. It wasn't just Toyota at the test U.S. Department of Highway Safty was there to attend the test. The driver was just wanting a little fame/money maybe to pay off the $700,000 he owed the IRS.


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 23, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Back when I worked at GMC the service techs would be changing out the headers on a Trans Am and have to drop the whole front end to work on it. Every tried to tune up a Trans Am or Camero yourself good luck.


Sounds like a bunch of idiots working on those Trans Ams. You didn't say how long ago....or what year models you're talking about. I've put headers on every body style of Trans Am.....I've never had to 'drop' anything other than the exhaust or transmission linkage (2nd gen 4 speed). They ain't rocket science to tune up either...



93f1fiddy said:


> So a GM is the only 1 to accomplish that?


No, but they aren't the ONLY manufacturer of 'junk' either. Like I said....you can find a lemon at most any produce stand.


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## DBM78 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> Sounds like a bunch of idiots working on those Trans Ams. You didn't say how long ago....or what year models you're talking about. I've put headers on every body style of Trans Am.....I've never had to 'drop' anything other than the exhaust or transmission linkage (2nd gen 4 speed). They ain't rocket science to tune up either...
> 
> 
> No, but they aren't the ONLY manufacturer of 'junk' either. Like I said....you can find a lemon at most any produce stand.



1998 and 1999 year models. You know the ones it was the last year model before they "GM" quit making them. You know in those body style half of the motor V8 is under the front dash. I find it funny you calling people who work at the dealership idiots since the main way the make money is getting jobs done in a hurry. They might pay you 3-4 hours to do a repair but you learn how to do the same job in 1-1.5 hours and get paid for 3-4.


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## GEORGIADAWGSRULE (Mar 23, 2010)

Im sure you can trade it in on a japanese auto go get a honda when the timming belt breaks you will need a new head or get a toyota with there gas pedals Ill stick with my mopars and if the toyota story is false why is mr toyota saying he will fix them.


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## DBM78 (Mar 24, 2010)

GEORGIADAWGSRULE said:


> Im sure you can trade it in on a japanese auto go get a honda when the timming belt breaks you will need a new head or get a toyota with there gas pedals Ill stick with my mopars and if the toyota story is false why is mr toyota saying he will fix them.



You stick to your Mopars a company that has the one of the worst reputation in the auto industry. What does Dodge make good?

Dodge Ram pick up with a Cummings engine might be the best they offer. Name another decent vehicle. The new Charger/Challenger? Time will tell. How much is a new Charger $35,000. I can think of a lot of other cars I would rather have for that price tag. What else? Can't think of any.

And I guess timing belts only break on Toyota and Honda vehicles.

As far as the recall goes use your commonsense the recall covers the Prius they have had how many "problems' with the gas pedals maybe 200 claims out of 300,000 vehicles. 



The story below was written on 3-18-2010. Its just one of many of false claims. Do some research its all online.

Data Puts Another Prius Crash in Question
Federal Investigators Say Driver in N.Y. Crash Did Not Apply Brakes, as Claimed
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Toyota representatives examine a crashed Toyota Prius, March 17, 2010, in Harrison, N.Y.  (AP Photo/Stephen Chernin)

 Play CBS Video 
Video

Toyota Defect Disputed

Toyota engineers are questioning the validity of a Calif. man's claims to have lost control of his Prius as it unintentionally accelerated to over 90 mph on a freeway. Dean Reynolds reports.

Video

Toyota Fights Accusations

Toyota is fighting back against a man who blamed the company for out-of-control acceleration in their Prius model car. Harry Smith reports.

Video

Toyota Prius Claim Questioned

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform's Rep. Darrell Issa, R - Calif., spoke to Harry Smith about the new report released questioning the safety claim of a Toyota Prius driver.
Stories 
Complaints Over Fixed Toyotas Jump to 105 
Toyota: Prius in NY Crash Yielding Data 
(CBS/AP)  The "black box" data from a 2005 Toyota Prius that crashed in suburban New York March 9 showed that the driver did not apply the brakes as claimed. 

A female housekeeper in Harrison, N.Y. had told police that she had been easing her employer's car out of the driveway when it took off on its own, crashing into a wall across the street. 

On Wednesday, investigators from Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - treating the case as another potential example of dangerous "unintended acceleration" that has plagued certain Toyota models - inspected the car. 

But on Thursday a NHTSA spokesman, speaking to CBS News Radio's John Hartge, said that the car's event data recorder "indicated there was no application of the brakes and the throttle was fully open." 

The car's front end was smashed in, its hood bent upward; it had a broken bumper and headlight, a flat tire and heavy scratches around its Toyota logo, but the driver was not hurt. "This car was preserved well, and it's the best evidence so far, I believe, that anybody's had an opportunity to evaluate," Harrison Police Department Capt. Anthony Marraccini said. 

A recent spate of accidents involving Toyota's Prius model has exacerbated scrutiny on the automaker, which has recalled more than 8 million cars since last fall because their gas pedals could become stuck.or be held down by floor mats. The Prius hasn't been recalled for sticky accelerators. However, the wrecked Prius had been repaired for the floor mat problem. 

The government is looking into complaints from at least 60 Toyota drivers who say they got their cars fixed and still had problems. Toyota is checking into those complaints as well. 

More on Toyota's Troubles: 

Complaints Over Fixed Toyotas Jump to 105 
Toyota: Prius in NY Crash Yielding Data 
Toyota Recall Spending Ranges in Billions 
Toyota: Data Refutes Runaway Prius Story 
NHTSA: We Can't Explain Runaway Prius 
Doubts Persist on Runaway Prius Story 
Calif. Prius Driver's Story Stirs Skeptics 
Calif. Prosecutor Sues Toyota Over Defects 

At the same time, Toyota has implied that it is suspicious of a recent spike in accounts of unintended acceleration and other problems following the negative publicity the company has received for its recalls. 

"Claims of unintended acceleration have inexplicably skyrocketed," Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said Monday. 

The Harrison investigation follows Toyota's probe into the claims of a California driver who said he was unable to stop his runaway Prius on a freeway last week until a state trooper helped him. The company held a news conference Monday and said the driver's account was substantially different from its findings. 

Toyota said tests on James Sikes' car showed its gas pedal, backup safety system and electronics were working fine. It was unable to replicate the stuck gas pedal that Sikes reported. 

The automaker said Monday that it found owner James Sikes rapidly pressed the gas and brakes back and forth 250 times, the maximum amount of data that the car's self-diagnostic system can collect. That account appears to contradict Sikes' statements - backed by the California Highway Patrol - that he slammed the brakes, even lifting his buttocks off the seat. 

Toyota officials said they believed Sikes hit the pedals lightly, which would have prevented a brake-override system from kicking in. Under the Prius design, engine power is cut if the brake pedal is pressed with moderate force. 

Toyota stopped short of saying that Sikes fabricated his story. 

"We have no opinion on his account, what he's been saying, other than the scenario is not consistent with the technical findings," Michels said at a news conference. 

© MMX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 24, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> No, but they aren't the ONLY manufacturer of 'junk' either. Like I said....you can find a lemon at most any produce stand.



They may not be the only 1 but it seems to be a common thing for them, not to often you see a yota lemon, i have never seen 1, but i have seen 3 lemon gm vehicles. That is people I ACTUALLY know. How many lemon toyotas have you seen from people YOU know?


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## Jeremiah Glaze (Mar 24, 2010)

newsflash any peice of equipment or vehicle is going to F up at some point no matter who makes it they all havy lazy white americans working onthe aseembly lines and inspection lines...I personally have never had any luck w Ford no power n wont last, same with dodge,...I fell out w ford when they quit making the 7.3 diesel...n fell out w Dodge when they quit making the 5.9l before they ever builta transmission that would last 75K behind it....got a 00 z71 currently w 205k on it n drive it everywhere every day, it pulled a bobcat for a while and a landscape trailer...since it was new I have replace the following...plugs n wires once brakes once, battery once last month, n thats it..it has been flawless n have a friend w a 99 w over 340k on it and its the same still rolling n never touched it...had a 98 before this w 322k on it when I sold it it had a radiator battery and trans replaced n kept rolling for at least a year after I sold it until I lost track of it...Chevy keep doin what u do...put on your big boy pants n fix what needs fixin, surely u have bigger problems in life than a leaky winsdhield on your van?


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## copenhagen cowboy (Mar 24, 2010)

Guess I will name a couple of Mopars, 3500 cummins,2500,v10,ram 1500,chargers,superbee,roadrunner,demon, look you can bash all you want, like I have said before, I have owned them all. I will still stick with the big 3 dodge,ford,gm, I have a 1999 z71 with 300,000 miles on it and have only changed the oil, tires and a alternator. Had a ram 1500 318 had over 250,000 miles on it never the first problem,and you say dodge should have flopped in the 80's I had a a 1984 ram 250 that been road hard and put up wet and all the parts were still factory and I bet it would have still pulled your house around....  I work on every brand out there every day,they all have their faults, but still stick with my big 3 before buying and supporting foreign countries..


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## contender* (Mar 24, 2010)

If I had owned a press I could have just replaced the bearings but this was my work truck and I needed it on the road. It is an auto locking hub with the bearings inside so I just bought the whole assembly. Took me half a day to do the work. Cost me about 480.00 in parts. The stealership wanted over a grand to do the same job. Same deal with the Ford radiator on my explorer, stealership wanted about a grand to replace it, I did the work for 360.00. I also contacted Ford because I found a lot of complaints on the internet about the radiators cracking. They pretty much told me tough crap. So as far as the service I have gotten from Ford Vs Chevy, I'd go with Chevy on that. Like I said though, I likey my Ford, it gets me where I'm goin.






DBM78 said:


> You say you replaced a front hub assembly but what was wrong with it? Why the whole hub assembly? I know why my wife had a 2003 Blazer that needed a new wheel bearing but the only way to replace it was to buy a new hub assembly for $425.00. I have replaced wheel bearings on my Mustang for about $3.00 a piece. I have worked at both Ford and GMC and have to say Ford beats GM hands down. Back when I worked at GMC the service techs would be changing out the headers on a Trans Am and have to drop the whole front end to work on it. Every tried to tune up a Trans Am or Camero yourself good luck. Service tech would have to have the VIN number to look up parts for a car because the same year model would have 3 different types of parts. Everything is made of plastic with GM fenders, doors and hood.


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## MYCAR47562 (Mar 24, 2010)

I have a friend who could reseal it for you if your interested pm me, he is in colubus.


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 24, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> They may not be the only 1 but it seems to be a common thing for them, not to often you see a yota lemon, i have never seen 1, but i have seen 3 lemon gm vehicles. That is people I ACTUALLY know. How many lemon toyotas have you seen from people YOU know?



Funny you should ask. I worked in/ran automotive service shops for almost half the time I've been alive. I've seen "lemons" from every manufacturer you would consider a common vehicle. I spent a lot of time talking with customers....and got to 'know' them. As a matter of fact, I remember a customer with a Toyota Camry who said it'd been in/out of the dealership about 6 times within the 1st year he owned it.....it was brand new back then. I also specifically remember a Toyota 4-Runner that gave so many problems, the man had to go through a lawyer and get Toyota to give him another vehicle via the lemon law.

My brother had a '98 Ford F250 that was in the shop A LOT the 1st year he had it. He traded it in on a GMC Z71....ain't had the 1st problem with it. I think it's around 240K on the clock right now.

My wife's Honda that we sold about a year ago. Nothing BUT electrical issues. Speedometer quit, power door locks would go up and down without pressing any buttons, wiper blades didn't work 1/2 the time, etc. Got rid of that sucker too.

So yeah, I've ran across quite a few of all makes and models....


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## cetaws6 (Mar 24, 2010)

Just want to give my .02 

As a mechanic myself for the past 8 years this is what i have discovered Chevrolet(which i drive myself) Makes a dang good truck or anything with a V8 in it. Anything else they make 4cyl/6cyl really hasn't impressed me. Have seen plenty of the trucks hit 300,000 and still driving most have had transmissions and fuel pumps but i have put transmissions in everything so when i buy a car its just something i plan on doing in the future after 100,000. 

Fords trucks are pretty good as much as i hate to say it but the coil packs suck! We see fewer fuel pumps from fords than chevys but they still go out usually around 100,000 plus and a full tank of gas.

toyota- Awesome cars all they way around as long as you keep the maint. up, few transmissions never see fuel pumps go bad and yes plan on doing that belt every 90-100000 bout 6-800 bucks and a good tune up and your ready for another 100000 then you do it over again throw some valve cover gaskets on it to around 200,000 then repeat lol they just keep going although the older models had head gasket issues the newer models are awesome.

Honda- unbeatable motors but the transmissions usually go between 50-150,000, again with the t-belt every 90,000. tune ups etc.

Nissan older models were good cars the newer ones have all sorts of problems mainly electrical and the dealer has to flash them with there computers what a hassle.

I also have a 02 Trans Am and if you know what your doing you can put a set of plugs in it in around 45 minutes headers about 2hrs don't know what the big deal with that is i'd rather put plugs in it over a 5.4L ford any day  don't know if this helps but every automaker has a lemon and a phenomenon heck i seen a hyundai pushing 250,000 the other day! thats a miracle.


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## dbodkin (Mar 24, 2010)

I've given GM 3 trys over the years everyone of my purchases  were garbage.... 

It's MoPar or no car,truck, van for me


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 24, 2010)

Bassquatch said:


> Funny you should ask. I worked in/ran automotive service shops for almost half the time I've been alive. I've seen "lemons" from every manufacturer you would consider a common vehicle. I spent a lot of time talking with customers....and got to 'know' them. As a matter of fact, I remember a customer with a Toyota Camry who said it'd been in/out of the dealership about 6 times within the 1st year he owned it.....it was brand new back then. I also specifically remember a Toyota 4-Runner that gave so many problems, the man had to go through a lawyer and get Toyota to give him another vehicle via the lemon law.
> 
> My brother had a '98 Ford F250 that was in the shop A LOT the 1st year he had it. He traded it in on a GMC Z71....ain't had the 1st problem with it. I think it's around 240K on the clock right now.
> 
> ...



Well then you just proved my point, I am talkin about people I KNOW, such as friends and family. One friend didnt learn his lesson from a gm lemon, bought another one and 70k miles  later had to pay out of pocket for a new trans, what a joke. So tell us the truth here, how many GM LEMONS have u seen? You mentioned all the others. 

People bash toyota because their foreign, but their here in america supplying jobs to americans and providing americans with good reliable vehicles. If the big3(mainly GM) didnt try to screw people they would be doing good now. But thats not the case is it.


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## GONoob (Mar 24, 2010)

GEORGIADAWGSRULE said:


> Im sure you can trade it in on a japanese auto go get a honda when the timming belt breaks you will need a new head or get a toyota with there gas pedals Ill stick with my mopars and if the toyota story is false why is mr toyota saying he will fix them.



Because thats what a great leader/entrepreneur does. I have new found respect for the man, he has handled himself very well.


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## win270wsm (Mar 24, 2010)

another satisfied "GM" owner (sarcasm)


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## GoldDot40 (Mar 25, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Well then you just proved my point, I am talkin about people I KNOW, such as friends and family. One friend didnt learn his lesson from a gm lemon, bought another one and 70k miles  later had to pay out of pocket for a new trans, what a joke. So tell us the truth here, how many GM LEMONS have u seen?



I'm afraid you missed MY point. I'm not saying GM doesn't make 'lemons'. My point is, ALL MANUFACTURERS make lemons. How many GM lemons have I seen? Probably no more or less than I have anything else. I figure I've seen more lemon Deawoo's than anything.....with Mitsubishi and Saturn (GM company ) as a close 2nd and 3rd. 

There's one thing that I have learned from servicing vehicles of every make/model....I will NEVER buy a brand new vehicle no matter who's emblem is on the grille. 

That being said, I have a '91 Ford Ranger, '02 Chevy 1500, '07 Mazda 6, and a '79 Camaro in my yard. We sold my wife's Honda a little over a year ago....and I just sold my old Honda a couple of months ago. Just so you know, I'm not just 'sticking up' for GM. I've owned quite a few makes/models.....just as I have serviced/repaired a lot of different makes/models. My point is, everybody makes junk every now and then.


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## msm (Mar 26, 2010)

dont you wish volkswagen still made the old aircooled vdubs. duct tape and bailing wire was all you needed to keep them on the road.


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## Shankopotamus (Mar 27, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug



Woodsman, where do you suppose most Japanese vehicles sold in the US are manufactured now?


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## duckhunter6 (Mar 27, 2010)

chicken cow said:


> yeah guess the new yota's did have problems, but why did chevys even need break's?...the transmission goes out at 100,000? how could you even compare the two? Eveybody know's toyota's last longer than ford or chevy. All the new vehicles are bad, but who would wanna buy a new one anyway?...unless you felt like throwing money away!



179,000 no new trans for me yet


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## THWACKG5 (Mar 29, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> This van is my first Chevy and my last as I'm all Japanese after this vehicle expires!
> 
> Chevy = garbage
> American made = lazy, no work ethic, union thug



HAHAHA So with our economy on the shape that it's in, you are going to hand your hard earned American dollars over to a foreign based company!!!!     

Its people like you who screwed this country up in the first place!!!      Flat out ANTI AMERICAN!!!!!

Sure there maybe foreign companies that assemble cars here in the states, creating American jobs and thats great and all.  But the only money from this that stays in the country is to pay to keep the lights on and to pay the employees! 
The thing is those Americans that work for foreign companies just replaced the Americans that lost there jobs with American auto makers who made alot better money!!!!   
We let this happen because people like Woodsman here wants to ship his American cash out of the country!!!!!!!!!!    

Nice there buddy real nice....why dont you just move to Japan, where there is no such thing as an American middle class and live in a box, because you cant find work that pays enough to live a decent life!!!

To the folks that think GM should have went out of buisness because of there poor buisness decision.....SHAME ON YOU, do you have any idea how many American people and families would have suffered, not just GM employees.......MAN i cant stand ignorant people!!!! How could anyone true American wish that thousands of other Americans would have lost there jobs... are you really that Anti American or just that.........awe nevermind.........!?!?!?


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## DBM78 (Mar 30, 2010)

Shankopotamus said:


> Woodsman, where do you suppose most Japanese vehicles sold in the US are manufactured now?



Hey smart guy Honda and Toyota employees aren't part of the UAW union. And they don't want to be part of it. Look at what the UAW has done to the Big 3. Its ran them in the ground.


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## DBM78 (Mar 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> HAHAHA So with our economy on the shape that it's in, you are going to hand your hard earned American dollars over to a foreign based company!!!!
> 
> Its people like you who screwed this country up in the first place!!!      Flat out ANTI AMERICAN!!!!!
> 
> ...



Who's stupid? Ok you say should buy a so called American made car cause I live in USA. Or buy what I think is the best vehicle for the money. I love the USA but if forgein countries can make a superior vehicle why can't we do it in the USA? Like I posted above Honda and Toyota are not part of the UAW and pay their workers a fair wage that is almost half of what the big 3 pay their workers. All of the extra pay and benefits is being pasted on to the buyers. This is not hard stuff to follow wake up. One reason the forgein automakers make better cars right now is because they do a lot more R&D than the American big 3.

I think its STUPID to buy something just because it has USA stamped on it. Crap is Crap it doesn't matter where its made US or any other country.


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## MYCAR47562 (Mar 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> HAHAHA So with our economy on the shape that it's in, you are going to hand your hard earned American dollars over to a foreign based company!!!!
> 
> Its people like you who screwed this country up in the first place!!!      Flat out ANTI AMERICAN!!!!!
> 
> ...



ON ALL NEW VECHICLE THEY HAVE A & MADE IN AMERICA STICKER ON THE WINDOWS, GO TO CHEVY AND CHECK THEM OUT. AT TOYOTA I CAN'T REMEBER FOR SURE BUT THE TUNDRA IS 85 OR 95% MADE IN AMERICA. SO WHO ARE WE REALLY SUPPORTING? I BELIEVE YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE NAME ALONE, THAT'S KOOL I DON'T WANNA SEE THEM GO BUT ILL BE Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- IF I BUY ANOTHER CHEVY OR DODGE


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 30, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Who's stupid? Ok you say should buy a so called American made car cause I live in USA. Or buy what I think is the best vehicle for the money. I love the USA but if forgein countries can make a superior vehicle why can't we do it in the USA? Like I posted above Honda and Toyota are not part of the UAW and pay their workers a fair wage that is almost half of what the big 3 pay their workers. All of the extra pay and benefits is being pasted on to the buyers. This is not hard stuff to follow wake up. One reason the forgein automakers make better cars right now is because they do a lot more R&D than the American big 3.
> 
> I think its STUPID to buy something just because it has USA stamped on it. Crap is Crap it doesn't matter where its made US or any other country.



Very well said, Thats why the tundra and the seqouia are on top in their class. When they make a vehicle they make it right.


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## Buckfever (Mar 30, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> You said Dodge LOL  . An automaker that should of went under in the 80's. They "Dodge/Chrysler" are the worst made cars in U.S.A. The problems with cars build in America is the auto unions. American automakers have to pay their workers more than foreign automakers. The higher wage for American workers is past on to the buyers. Its a simple question should I pay more for a sub par vehicle because its built in the U.S.A or should I pay less for a superior vehicle from a foreign automaker? I have made my choice I have a Toyota Tacoma and a Honda Accord sitting in the driveway. My wife bought a brand new 2006 Accord for $16,300.00 it came to $18,500 after tax and fees. Show me a American made car that is as nice or reliable as it has been for that price. You won't find one. It gets over 30 mpg and I have never turned a wrench on it. It now has over 130,000 miles .



My wife has a 2005 Accord, and other than regular maintance nothing had been done to it. At 124,000 miles I had to put a $3200.00 transmission in it, and Honda wouldn't not help at all. Car wasn't even payed for at the time.


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## THWACKG5 (Mar 30, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Very well said, Thats why the tundra and the seqouia are on top in their class. When they make a vehicle they make it right.



 HAHAHAHAHAHA  

Are you serious............HAHAHA sorry i cant stop laughing........do you not have a television?? 

You obviously havent seen all over the news Toyota's largest saftey recall in automotive history!!! ....and you said "when they make a vehicle they make it right"  hahahahahahaha please tell me you were joking!!!

The Tundra's have been recalled because the FRAMES are rotting out in Northern states, you atcually think they are best in class along with the freakin seqouia!!!!  Do you know what a Tahoe is son???? Tahoe and Yukon has the full size SUV market on lock down...sorry about it!! You need to pay a little more attention while driving around town. Or how about a real truck for ya like a CHevy, GMC, or even a Ford..

 How many times do you see a freakin Tundra pulling a fifth wheel or even a decent sized trailer down the express way????? 
Oh wait a minute you havent because they cant!!!!   They're JUNK!!!!!!    HAHAHAHAHA


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## Doyle (Mar 30, 2010)

> At 124,000 miles I had to put a $3200.00 transmission in it, and Honda wouldn't not help at all.



None of the other manufacturers would have either.


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## DBM78 (Mar 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> [/COLOR]
> HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Are you serious............HAHAHA sorry i cant stop laughing........do you not have a television??
> ...



Your not a bright one are you? It's hard for you to follow logic I can tell. Maybe numbers will work for you. 200 "gas pedal problems" out of 300,000 vehicles. These are not proven just claims only 200. You know that is less than 1% of all of the vehicles sold. Think about it I bet I can find problems with GM and Ford that are well over 200 claims. I was at a Toyota dealership today. They are still selling cars. Since when was the last time the MEDIA got anything right? Look at who got elected and hows that working out for everybody.


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## DBM78 (Mar 30, 2010)

Buckfever said:


> My wife has a 2005 Accord, and other than regular maintance nothing had been done to it. At 124,000 miles I had to put a $3200.00 transmission in it, and Honda wouldn't not help at all. Car wasn't even payed for at the time.



124,000 thats twice as long as any in my 5.0 Mustang lasted


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 31, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> [/COLOR]
> HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Are you serious............HAHAHA sorry i cant stop laughing........do you not have a television??
> ...



Yes im serious,
Do you watch tv, search the net, or read?
The Tundra and seqoiua rated best in their classes according to jd power polls!!
A tahoe, now that SON is a JOKE, doesnt even compare to a seqoiua, do some research.
I have seen plenty towing all kinds of loads down the expessway, seeing how i travel a lot.
Its people like you that make the rest of the gm people look bad.
By the way i have a ford, completely rebuilt @ 140k miles
I also own a 4runner, 90k never turned a wrench on it except for the drain plug.


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 31, 2010)

Buckfever said:


> My wife has a 2005 Accord, and other than regular maintance nothing had been done to it. At 124,000 miles I had to put a $3200.00 transmission in it, and Honda wouldn't not help at all. Car wasn't even payed for at the time.



06 2500hd, 70k miles new trans, do you think gm helped him?


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## bearpugh (Mar 31, 2010)

lotta folks like me are buying old.


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## dixiejacket (Mar 31, 2010)

*Gm*

I own 3 Toyotas, 1 Nissan and a Saturn.  If I had to go out and buy a vehicle today, it would be a Toyota.

With that said, I will also add that the Saturn has 200k on it and it has been one of the best vehicles I've ever owned.  Figures that Obama would shut it down.


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## cejay825 (Mar 31, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Yes im serious,
> Do you watch tv, search the net, or read?
> The Tundra and seqoiua rated best in their classes according to jd power polls!!
> A tahoe, now that SON is a JOKE, doesnt even compare to a seqoiua, do some research.
> ...



What JD power says is one thing, what the public is buying is another. Ratings are not an indication of ownership !!! I'll have to agree with  THWACKG5,Tahoe and Yukon absolutely own the Seqoiua.There's no way you can tell me that there's more Seqoiuas on the road than Tahoes or Yukon, at least not in my town !!


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 31, 2010)

cejay825 said:


> What JD power says is one thing, what the public is buying is another. Ratings are not an indication of ownership !!! I'll have to agree with  THWACKG5,Tahoe and Yukon absolutely own the Seqoiua.There's no way you can tell me that there's more Seqoiuas on the road than Tahoes or Yukon, at least not in my town !!



So what your saying is because there is more tahoes on the road they are better?
Seqoiua is bigger, tows more and has been rated a more reliable vehicle, and the survey was done from actual owners of all the vehicles.
I have known several people with the tahoe and all have had electrical problems.


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## jbowes89 (Mar 31, 2010)

cejay825 said:


> What JD power says is one thing, what the public is buying is another. Ratings are not an indication of ownership !!! I'll have to agree with  THWACKG5,Tahoe and Yukon absolutely own the Seqoiua.There's no way you can tell me that there's more Seqoiuas on the road than Tahoes or Yukon, at least not in my town !!



Argument from popularity, lame. 
Reminds me of sunday service.


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## cejay825 (Mar 31, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> So what your saying is because there is more tahoes on the road they are better?
> Seqoiua is bigger, tows more and has been rated a more reliable vehicle, and the survey was done from actual owners of all the vehicles.
> I have known several people with the tahoe and all have had electrical problems.



No, that's not what I'm saying, read my post again. I'm simply saying that how well a vehicle is rated does not reflect how many are on the road. Seqoiua may very well be rated above Tahoe BUT there can also be more Tahoes on the road than Seqoiuas. There are people, believe it or not, who buy vehicles based on what they like and what suites their needs and not what's rated highest.



jbowes89 said:


> Argument from popularity, lame.
> Reminds me of sunday service.



Lame, like your non contributing post ? So what are we talking about reliabillity or popularity ? Like it or not both sell. So Tahoe out sells Seqoiuas by popularity and does it being below the Seqoiuas in the ratings. Yes "argument from popularity" and it chaps Toyota's HIDE !!!  hahahahahaha


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## 93f1fiddy (Mar 31, 2010)

cejay825 said:


> No, that's not what I'm saying, read my post again. I'm simply saying that how well a vehicle is rated does not reflect how many are on the road. Seqoiua may very well be rated above Tahoe BUT there can also be more Tahoes on the road than Seqoiuas. There are people, believe it or not, who buy vehicles based on what they like and what suites their needs and not what's rated highest.
> 
> 
> 
> Lame, like your non contributing post ? So what are we talking about reliabillity or popularity ? Like it or not both sell. So Tahoe out sells Seqoiuas by popularity and does it being below the Seqoiuas in the ratings. Yes "argument from popularity" and it chaps Toyota's HIDE !!!  hahahahahaha



Well at least you admit its a better vehicle. I dont own a seqoiua, its to big and uses too much gas for what i need, so i got a 4 runner, which i bought because we(wife&I) like it and it reliable. I looked at the comparable ford and chevy, and they did not compare in quality. So buying something just because you like it must mean you make tooooooo much $$$$$$$$$$$$$.LOL, and yes the 4runner did cost more, but it hasn't seen a wrench in 5 years.


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## cejay825 (Mar 31, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Well at least you admit its a better vehicle. I dont own a seqoiua, its to big and uses too much gas for what i need, so i got a 4 runner, which i bought because we(wife&I) like it and it reliable. I looked at the comparable ford and chevy, and they did not compare in quality. So buying something just because you like it must mean you make tooooooo much $$$$$$$$$$$$$.LOL, and yes the 4runner did cost more, but it hasn't seen a wrench in 5 years.



Correct, I never said Tahoe was better but I do believe they out sell Seqoiua.I have no problem with Toyotas I just don't buy them. 4Runners are good vehicles, only thing I don't like about them is their suspension will beat you to death but thats also good for off road. Yes there are people who make purchases without any consideration of $$$$$$, I wish I could join them but I can't, my Tahoe and Yukon are both older late 90's models but hey they have served me very well without near the trouble people claim they have, to each his own


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## THWACKG5 (Mar 31, 2010)

Please.............Seqouiua's are big ugly T.U.R.D.S...........They have no class. Right up there with the joke of a truck Tundra .....


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 1, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Please.............Seqouiua's are big ugly T.U.R.D.S...........They have no class. Right up there with the joke of a truck Tundra .....



WOW!!! Very intelligent comeback.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 1, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> WOW!!! Very intelligent comeback.



HAHA Hey thanks man!!


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 2, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> HAHA Hey thanks man!!



No problem glad i could be of assistance, usually thats what happens, a toyota owner ends up assisting a gm owner!


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## Son (Apr 3, 2010)

I always had good luck with GM until I bought this 2001 S-10 ZR-2 
In this picture, replaced seal, bearing, CV axle etc... the bearing looks like a small thin watch band. In a four wheel drive?   ?   ?  Dumb.
4 x 4. I've been working on it for nine years now cause somethings always breaking. The ABS brakes have always had problems. Hub assemblys go out too often. Two fuel pumps so far. Third door latch is plastic, and has broken several times. Tailgate cables, junk. Radiator, junk. Seat adjustment handles broke first year. 
The GM Dealer in my town went out of business last year. They never did fix any of my warrantly work. But they had this truck in their shop for a combined period of over a month the first year. Said they changed out the auxillary fan, there isn't one.   New vehicles are the worst investment one can make. I'm buying used from now on, and it wont be a chevy.

The right side


----------



## redneckcp03 (Apr 4, 2010)

I have owned all of the big 3 a few toyotas suzuki nissan honda etc....  toyotas have been the toughest and most reliable i have owned. In my opinion dodge is one of the best american made out there. all i have owned is trucks and other than crappy automatic transmissions they have really lasted. just sold one with almost 300,000 one of the best trucks i have owned. i've had some good chevys and some that were junk. never kept a ford long enough to say much about them. but all in all i think anything made after the early 2000s are of low quality


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## Son (Apr 4, 2010)

I remember the first brake pads I needed for my 2001 ZR-2, GM wanted over 130 bucks for the back set.  Got em at Napa for about 30 bucks.  Dealerships really try and stick it to ya until after market parts come out.
Longest lasting four wheel drive truck I've owned was a Dodge Ram-50 built by Mitsubishi. Had a 2.6 four cylinder and went over 300 thousand miles before the oil pump quit. Bad part is, I had loaned it to a friend to hunt out of because he didn't have 4 x 4. The oil light came on and he kept driving...


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## redneckcp03 (Apr 4, 2010)

Son said:


> I remember the first brake pads I needed for my 2001 ZR-2, GM wanted over 130 bucks for the back set.  Got em at Napa for about 30 bucks.  Dealerships really try and stick it to ya until after market parts come out.
> Longest lasting four wheel drive truck I've owned was a Dodge Ram-50 built by Mitsubishi. Had a 2.6 four cylinder and went over 300 thousand miles before the oil pump quit. Bad part is, I had loaned it to a friend to hunt out of because he didn't have 4 x 4. The oil light came on and he kept driving...


i would love to know how you did a hub assembly without getting your hands and dirtier than that LOL


----------



## Son (Apr 5, 2010)

Ha, had cleaned em up to eat lunch.. Under the nails still looked bad.
A trick I learned years ago. Put hand cream on before starting to work, makes hands come cleaner, sooner.


----------



## saltysurf (Apr 5, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Anything is prone to break, at any given time. No matter who made it.



enough said right there


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 5, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Anything is prone to break, at any given time. No matter who made it.



This is actually a very true statement..probably even the best post in this thread!!!

I just think it's funny to see all the Yota Goofballs get all worked up like school girls over Gm, or any other AMERICAN Company!!!


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 5, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> This is actually a very true statement..probably even the best post in this thread!!!
> 
> I just think it's funny to see all the Yota Goofballs get all worked up like school girls over Gm, or any other AMERICAN Company!!!



I don't think its funny I think its sad that more AMERICANS are not upset with GM and the UAW. You like driving the Goverment Subsidies GM vehicle. I don't care for handouts nobody ever gave me one. But you keep standing behind GM its only a matter of time till they get another bailout. It shows you stupidity making fun of other people for not buy a vehicle from a failing automaker. If they made quality cars they might not be in the situation. If the UAW made changes to the current agreement they might not of had to go to GOV for a bailout. But guess what neither of those things happened did they? How about this watch the news read a newspaper or better yet read a book and get your facts straight.


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## southern85 (Apr 6, 2010)

I have worked for jap motors for 11 years most of the cars are built in the ohio .as far as honda trans problems they found the problem and extened the warranty to 109k miles. cant ask for much more than that. but i still love my chevys 88 gmc 1500 310000 when i sold it and you can,t beat the old k5 in the mud.


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## Mako22 (Apr 6, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> HAHAHA So with our economy on the shape that it's in, you are going to hand your hard earned American dollars over to a foreign based company!!!!
> 
> Its people like you who screwed this country up in the first place!!!      Flat out ANTI AMERICAN!!!!!
> 
> ...



Take a good look at my avatar and tell me I'm anti American, that ain't disney land your looking at! The truth is Japanes cars are made to a better standard with superior engineering no matter where they are assembled at, I stand by my original statements, Chevy stinks!


----------



## david w. (Apr 6, 2010)

op2:


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 6, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> I don't think its funny I think its sad that more AMERICANS are not upset with GM and the UAW. You like driving the Goverment Subsidies GM vehicle. I don't care for handouts nobody ever gave me one. But you keep standing behind GM its only a matter of time till they get another bailout. It shows you stupidity making fun of other people for not buy a vehicle from a failing automaker. If they made quality cars they might not be in the situation. If the UAW made changes to the current agreement they might not of had to go to GOV for a bailout. But guess what neither of those things happened did they? How about this watch the news read a newspaper or better yet read a book and get your facts straight.



Let me guess you get your information from Fox news, because you obviously dont know what you are talking about!! 
What would make you think they would ever need another "bailout" as you call it. It was nothing more than a loan in which they have already paid back more than half a head of schedule and the entire amount will also be paid back ahead of schedule!! And about the UAW sure I dont agree with alot of the crap that happened with all of that, they got way to big and way to powerful. Once again get your facts straight, they have made a ton of changes, the "new" Gm is nothing like the "old". You no longer have people making the big money on a freaking assembly line like they used to....those days are long gone. The UAW is'nt half as powerful as they used to be thank goodness, so tell me what exactly havent they changed besides there entire way of doing things???  

Its just funny how all you folks down south think you know whats really happening and things that really go on with Gm from watch FOX or reading some head line some where!!!

Im from Michigan born and raised and it hits home for me when 95% of my friends and family either work for or have a tie with Gm or and Gm supplier, "YA"LL" have NO clue what folks are going through up there!!  Because if you did you might have just a little different outlook on the whole thing. 
You think that you are getting back at the company (GM) by not buying there vehicles, guess again you are killing American families. And if you dont believe it jump in your Toyota and go for a little joy ride up to Michigan and see what it looks like for yourself........ Beautiful $300+k house forclosed now wont even sell for $83k, just to name a personal one. 

NOT A SINGLE PERSON DOWN HERE HAS SEEN A BAD ECONOMY!!!!!
Why do you think I had to move my family down here to find work, I lost my job in the automotive industry and I didnt even work for Gm and had to come down here to get into Medical industry..

It bad its really bad, I dont think people think about or know whats really happening in our country.

Sure Gm made ALOT of really bad buisness decisions over the years that have really hurt them, Im not saying there the best company ever and they are perfect and every single person should drive a Gm product. 
And yes I will even say they have had there fair share of JUNK, just like any other auto maker.
In fact my biggest issue isnt with Yota (although I will never own one), since so many of them are made here and provide jobs, it just sucks that they are a foreign company and all the profit from those vehicle gets ships out of our economoy and back to Japan. Everybody needs to know that just because a company might make a car in the states doesnt mean the money from those sales is staying in the country!!!!!
The biggest issue i have, the thing that just kills me is with folks mind set these days, they dont care where there money really goes or who they are supporting anymore, most people could careless if they are buying something thats going to support our own country or not regardless of the make..

Jeez either I am talking to a bunch of women or all you Yota guys are some sesitive freaking dudes!!!!  There might be a Toyota support group for ya, so ya'll can set in a circle and cry to each other    ...Im just kidding......simmer down now.....


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 6, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Take a good look at my avatar and tell me I'm anti American, that ain't disney land your looking at! The truth is Japanes cars are made to a better standard with superior engineering no matter where they are assembled at, I stand by my original statements, Chevy stinks!





I already did once!?!?!?!?!?!  

What do you know about Jap. engineering?????? 
I would really like to know.. Becasue in my field of work I have worked with ALOT of Jap engineers over the years.....and had to REWORK most of there junk to make it work!!! haha 

Try again son...


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## Mako22 (Apr 7, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> I already did once!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> What do you know about Jap. engineering??????
> I would really like to know.. Becasue in my field of work I have worked with ALOT of Jap engineers over the years.....and had to REWORK most of there junk to make it work!!! haha
> ...



Oh now I see your a Yankee, now it all makes sense.


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## DBM78 (Apr 7, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Oh now I see your a Yankee, now it all makes sense.


----------



## cejay825 (Apr 7, 2010)

Son said:


> I always had good luck with GM until I bought this 2001 S-10 ZR-2
> In this picture, replaced seal, bearing, CV axle etc... the bearing looks like a small thin watch band. In a four wheel drive?   ?   ?  Dumb.
> 4 x 4. I've been working on it for nine years now cause somethings always breaking. The ABS brakes have always had problems. Hub assemblys go out too often. Two fuel pumps so far. Third door latch is plastic, and has broken several times. Tailgate cables, junk. Radiator, junk. Seat adjustment handles broke first year.
> The GM Dealer in my town went out of business last year. They never did fix any of my warrantly work. But they had this truck in their shop for a combined period of over a month the first year. Said they changed out the auxillary fan, there isn't one.   New vehicles are the worst investment one can make. I'm buying used from now on, and it wont be a chevy.
> ...



Man, thats too bad, hate to hear that,,,, Do you want to sell it ????? for real......


----------



## THWACKG5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> Oh now I see your a Yankee, now it all makes sense.



Ya got that right!!! 

Im no history buff or anything...but aaahh..... didnt WE win the war!!!


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## tcward (Apr 7, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Let me guess you get your information from Fox news, because you obviously dont know what you are talking about!!
> What would make you think they would ever need another "bailout" as you call it. It was nothing more than a loan in which they have already paid back more than half a head of schedule and the entire amount will also be paid back ahead of schedule!! And about the UAW sure I dont agree with alot of the crap that happened with all of that, they got way to big and way to powerful. Once again get your facts straight, they have made a ton of changes, the "new" Gm is nothing like the "old". You no longer have people making the big money on a freaking assembly line like they used to....those days are long gone. The UAW is'nt half as powerful as they used to be thank goodness, so tell me what exactly havent they changed besides there entire way of doing things???
> 
> Its just funny how all you folks down south think you know whats really happening and things that really go on with Gm from watch FOX or reading some head line some where!!!
> ...



got into the medical industry did ya'? Would that be the mental health industry?


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 7, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Ya got that right!!!
> 
> Im no history buff or anything...but aaahh..... didnt WE win the war!!!



Your making all sorts of friends aren't you?


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 7, 2010)

tcward said:


> got into the medical industry did ya'? Would that be the mental health industry?



 No but I should to help me deal with all these poor confused people down here!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 7, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Your making all sorts of friends aren't you?



Hey buddy Im not the one who brought the whole Yankee thing up, but since Woodsman did I figured I would just throw that little tid bit of a fact out there, you now...for some good ol Yankee humor....

Snot like I havnt herd it befo!!!  

Actually yes I have made alot of great friends since we've been here not even 2 years now..thanks for asking!!


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## simpleman30 (Apr 8, 2010)

my personal truck is a 2001 GMC Sierra Z71.  it has 206,000 miles and everything under the hood is original, except the battery.  it burns a little bit of oil and the transmission slips a little now and then.

my work truck is a 2005 GMC Sierra with 187,000 miles and everthing under the hood is original including the battery. 

my previous personal truck was a 1997 GMC Sierra Z71 that had 223,000 miles on it before the original motor and transmission required rebuilding.  

despite the current financial situation of GMC/Chevrolet, i will never own a truck unless it's GM. i don't have any experience with Ford, but i don't know of any 1/2 ton V8 Jap-built pickups that make it to 200,000 miles without a rebuilt motor or tranny.  i'll stick with GM, despite my disdain for unions in general.  by the way, unions have no bearing on the price of a USED GM truck!  i prefer to save my money and pay cash for my mildly used vehicles.  i've only owned 2 trucks since i started driving 10 years ago.


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## DBM78 (Apr 8, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> No but I should to help me deal with all these poor confused people down here!!!



Typical Yankee moves down south and thinks he the smartest guy around. Trust me we all know your type. Most of us Southerners are friendly people that doesn't mean we like you. But I know you will be down here to stay just don't go telling all of kin about how great it is down here. We don't need anymore yankees than we already got.


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## rayjay (Apr 8, 2010)

The thing is 5 or 6 years old, how can you blame the guy that put the windshield in at the factory?  I don't know if it is a glue-in or has a rubber gasket but most likely the seal is just sunbaked or been abused from car washing chemicals and has shrunk.

   Get the windshield R&R'ed or just keep whining pitifully


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## redneckcp03 (Apr 8, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Ya got that right!!!
> 
> Im no history buff or anything...but aaahh..... didnt WE win the war!!!


----------



## THWACKG5 (Apr 8, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Typical Yankee moves down south and thinks he the smartest guy around. Trust me we all know your type. Most of us Southerners are friendly people that doesn't mean we like you. But I know you will be down here to stay just don't go telling all of kin about how great it is down here. We don't need anymore yankees than we already got.




Hey now that you say that.....I knew there was a reason why my company couldnt wait to move my family and I down here, all expenses paid.... Oh and that would also explain why they offered and extra 15k a year plus an extra week of vacation when I told them no thanks on the offer, I didnt want to move south!!!  

You would have thought they would have just hired a local.....oh wait..  

Hey but now that I am down here, it is really nice, I am working on getting the rest of my family down here!!! 

You also sound like one good solid American!!!


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## Nicodemus (Apr 8, 2010)

Ya`ll cut it out, and act right.


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## Hooked On Quack (Apr 8, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Ya`ll cut it out, and act right.



Ban the Yankee Nic!!


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## MikeEast (Apr 8, 2010)

I heard it went something like - "A yankee is someone who comes down south for a vist, and a damyankee is one who wouldn't leave."

I've lived all over the country for the military and for work and I now call the Great State Of Georgia "home". That should say something right there. 

This is a cool place to live. But not everyone can...

Mike


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 8, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Ya`ll cut it out, and act right.



Sorry Nic..... I had to stick up for myself.....your boys started it..


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 8, 2010)

simpleman30 said:


> my personal truck is a 2001 GMC Sierra Z71.  it has 206,000 miles and everything under the hood is original, except the battery.  it burns a little bit of oil and the transmission slips a little now and then.
> 
> my work truck is a 2005 GMC Sierra with 187,000 miles and everthing under the hood is original including the battery.
> 
> ...




NOW THAT'S WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT!!!


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## Ken L (Apr 8, 2010)

*Ranger*



Bassquatch said:


> I'm afraid you missed MY point. I'm not saying GM doesn't make 'lemons'. My point is, ALL MANUFACTURERS make lemons. How many GM lemons have I seen? Probably no more or less than I have anything else. I figure I've seen more lemon Deawoo's than anything.....with Mitsubishi and Saturn (GM company ) as a close 2nd and 3rd.
> 
> There's one thing that I have learned from servicing vehicles of every make/model....I will NEVER buy a brand new vehicle no matter who's emblem is on the grille.
> 
> That being said, I have a '91 Ford Ranger, '02 Chevy 1500, '07 Mazda 6, and a '79 Camaro in my yard. We sold my wife's Honda a little over a year ago....and I just sold my old Honda a couple of months ago. Just so you know, I'm not just 'sticking up' for GM. I've owned quite a few makes/models.....just as I have serviced/repaired a lot of different makes/models. My point is, everybody makes junk every now and then.



Especially that ugly Ford Ranger of yours.


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## Ken L (Apr 8, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Let me guess you get your information from Fox news, because you obviously dont know what you are talking about!!
> What would make you think they would ever need another "bailout" as you call it. It was nothing more than a loan in which they have already paid back more than half a head of schedule and the entire amount will also be paid back ahead of schedule!! And about the UAW sure I dont agree with alot of the crap that happened with all of that, they got way to big and way to powerful. Once again get your facts straight, they have made a ton of changes, the "new" Gm is nothing like the "old". You no longer have people making the big money on a freaking assembly line like they used to....those days are long gone. The UAW is'nt half as powerful as they used to be thank goodness, so tell me what exactly havent they changed besides there entire way of doing things???
> 
> Its just funny how all you folks down south think you know whats really happening and things that really go on with Gm from watch FOX or reading some head line some where!!!
> ...



Dude, not bashing you here, but things down here are NOT as great as  you think. OUR economies are struggling. FOR REAL. 

Now a question for you. I am one of the dudes you refer to that doesn't keep up with the news. Enlighten me and others in detail on how much GM has paid back of the bailout money. Have they turned a profit? What's the deal there. 

 Explain how the UAW has lost their power. Don't they own half of Chrysler now.. You seem to know alot on this subject, would like to know what you know. I could search all this info out on the net, but I and others on here I am sure would like to here more of these details.

I am not bashing you cause, well, I got a little yankee in me too, but seriously dude, kind of harsh on the statements about us down here and really you sound educated and make good points, but respond here and there with assumptions, all traits of us lowly southerners.

Let's hear some facts.


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## Mako22 (Apr 8, 2010)

Four years ago I sold my 1989 Nissan PU (200,000+ miles) because I wanted something bigger. I ended up with a new 2006 Nissan Frontier and I love it so far. I only bought the Chevy van for the 8 person seating to hold my large family, now I wish I had just bought the Toyota van instead.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 8, 2010)

Ken L said:


> Dude, not bashing you here, but things down here are NOT as great as  you think. OUR economies are struggling. FOR REAL.
> 
> Now a question for you. I am one of the dudes you refer to that doesn't keep up with the news. Enlighten me and others in detail on how much GM has paid back of the bailout money. Have they turned a profit? What's the deal there.
> 
> ...




The economy down here may not be "great" to you, but I promise you compared to where Im from it's GREAT!!!

First off I thank you for the maturity level of your post, and good to hear from a fellow Yankee!! 

Your first question - Gm has paid back 1.2billion dollars and will have the Gov. paid off in full with interest by the 3rd quarter 2010... which is ahead of schedule, at that time they will be in the black and can show a profit.

Have any of yall GM bashers ever taken a loan out, maybe when times where tough???? 
Did you pay it back earlier than agreed upon with interest ???.... Didnt think so....

Second question - Maybe i should have worded the UAW thing a little diferently, its not that they lost all of there power. But you dont have folks walkin in the door making $25/ hr working on an assembly line. All those high wages that everybody is jealous about is gone, if you walk into a plant now your looking at $15/ hr as a line worker Akso you dont have people getting away with alot of the nonsense that they used too get away with, all the crap that gives the UAW a bad name.

Also to all the folks that think the UAW's higher wages were "pasted" on to the sticker price, pumping the cost way up.....wrong again. 
Only 5% of labor is figured into the cost...35% alone is advertisement!!!  Maybe ya'll should do a little better price comparison while shopping for vehicles. 
GM is very competative.

And about the UAW owning half of Chryster....I honestly dont know about that one. I can surely get back too you on that though if you realy actually care!!

I honestly dont mean to be harsh on southern folks as a whole, thats not what I meant. We love it down here, its beautiful, lots of great people. But when I get peronally insulted about where Im from, and bashed about it. Then bring it on, I can go all day long twice as hard. 
So if I have affended any inocent side liners...my appoligies, the harshness wasnt meant for you. If you have attacked me....good you deserved it...


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 9, 2010)

I thought the MAIN problem with the UAW and GM was the cost of health care for current and retired workers. But here is some other NEWS about your hometown.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/npxY4RwpqF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/npxY4RwpqF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 93f1fiddy (Apr 9, 2010)

I dont care where you are from, yank, southener, whatever, if you cant see that gm  hasnt made a good vehicle in the past 10 years there is something wrong with you!
For the guy  about the jap v8 w/o 200k on it WAKE UP, the toyota, lexus v8 is pretty much bulletproof. And i also have not seen too many probs with the trans either.
What gm trans last that long, tow something with the 1500 and watch the trans burn up, seen it happen many times.
Everyone still remembers the 350, but they forget GM doesnt make it anymore, that was their best motor and they quit makin it. But the trans behind them wouldnt hold up either.
When GM makes something better i might look at them, but for now the best thing they have going for them is made by ISUZU and ALLISON.


----------



## DBM78 (Apr 9, 2010)

My mom had a 1995 Lexus LS400 with 316,000 miles on it with the orignal transmission never had a powertrain problem with that vehicle she sold it last year. She only had to replace the power steering pump.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 9, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> I dont care where you are from, yank, southener, whatever, if you cant see that gm  hasnt made a good vehicle in the past 10 years there is something wrong with you!
> For the guy  about the jap v8 w/o 200k on it WAKE UP, the toyota, lexus v8 is pretty much bulletproof. And i also have not seen too many probs with the trans either.
> What gm trans last that long, tow something with the 1500 and watch the trans burn up, seen it happen many times.
> Everyone still remembers the 350, but they forget GM doesnt make it anymore, that was their best motor and they quit makin it. But the trans behind them wouldnt hold up either.
> When GM makes something better i might look at them, but for now the best thing they have going for them is made by ISUZU and ALLISON.



You have somewhat of a point about Gm's past 10 years, although you made that a blanket statement, you are wrong there. 
I can admit Gm's quality has went a little down hill in the last 10 years with some of there models, not all of them. People have or hear about a problem or two with select vehicle, and automatically translate that to GM as a whole....wrong!

They are well aware of and have admitted to and apologized publically about things in the past, and they know, I know, you know that it hurt them. It hurt our country becasue now everybody is brain washed and thinks its cool or ok to go buy a foreign car - with our economy in bad shape!!

They got to big and cocky then everybody started going out and buying foreign giving our American dollars away, and it really hurt them.. 

Now they are a different company, there quality is exceptionaly better now than its has been, and there going to have to regain people trust....

I have said all along that they arent perfect, Gm has made alot of bad mistakes.. thats obvious!

But that doesnt justify going out and sending your American  dollars out of the country by buying foreign..


And i have never heard of GM trucks having  trans problems?? where did you hear that from....... or was it just one truck that you heard of that happened too??

My family has owned full size GMC's since I can remember, and I dont ever remember and instance of any of them having any major problem at all?  The worst Gm product I can remember is an onle 80 somthing Buick century....and that thing was a piece!!!!


----------



## THWACKG5 (Apr 9, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> I thought the MAIN problem with the UAW and GM was the cost of health care for current and retired workers. But here is some other NEWS about your hometown.
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/npxY4RwpqF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/npxY4RwpqF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>




I can't view what you posted....its just a white box...

What is it?


----------



## Hooked On Quack (Apr 9, 2010)

So goes GM, so goes the country...


----------



## GoldDot40 (Apr 9, 2010)

Ken L said:


> Especially that ugly Ford Ranger of yours.



You want to buy it back????? LOL!! It's been a goodun', but man it's ugly as homemade sin.

It's actually sitting in the yard disabled right now. The crank position sensor went out. I've got a brand new one sitting here.....just too lazy to go put it on. I need to be driving it back and forth to work to save some gas.


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## hawgrider1200 (Apr 9, 2010)

*GM products*

The wife bought a 2008 Impala new. We sure have enjoyed owning it. No problems with it. It still has less than 20K miles on it. Maybe we will have problems when it gets broken in. I won't blame that on some poor line worker if it does develop problems. Everything mechanical can fail. I have made a living in the past from working on cars and other mechanical things so I'm kinda glad it works like that. Helped me feed the family.

I am right fed up with all the bashing of the American Worker class. It isn't the Unions that caused any problems. It is the greedy CEOs. How many of you read in the news where the CEOs of the banks that went bankrupt were getting multi million dollar bonuses? When the Bush administration bailed the banks out the bonus checks were still paid to the CEOs. How many of you think you'd get a bonus check if your company were going under?

I am also right fed up with the bashing of the current administration. I was not an Obama supporter, nor did I support the Republicans. Both those political parties are crooked and responsible for the sad shape our economy is in right now. This is a majority rules country and the majority voted these people to lead our country. So either be supportive or vote the crooks out of office. 

Tired of all the whiners. 5 year old van sits out in the 100+ degree weather and develops problems with the seal on the windsheild. Fix the dang thing then sell it to someone that needs a vehicle. Quit ur whining!

End rant!! ya'll have a lovely day!! Oh and quit bashing Yankees, My mom is a yankee. Why ya'll wanna talk about my mom like that?


----------



## redneckcp03 (Apr 10, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Please.............Seqouiua's are big ugly T.U.R.D.S...........They have no class. Right up there with the joke of a truck Tundra .....





THWACKG5 said:


> First off I thank you for the maturity level of your post, and good to hear from a fellow Yankee!!



really lol?


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## 2011GADawg (Apr 10, 2010)

Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us


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## redneckcp03 (Apr 10, 2010)

2011GADawg said:


> Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us


i have always said the exact same thing about on star. i'll never own a vehicle with on star


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## hawgrider1200 (Apr 11, 2010)

*paranoia*



2011GADawg said:


> Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us


The On-star aint the government. It was developed way before your buddy Bush bailed out GM.


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## 2011GADawg (Apr 11, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> The On-star aint the government. It was developed way before your buddy Bush bailed out GM.



It started with good intentions but now the government is over gm who is over on-star and who said bush was my buddy I don't have a problem with him like everyone else but I have never said anything about bush on this forum or anywhere on the internet for that matter and right now I would be afraid if I controlled on-star because I would fear the govt could take advantage of it and even if it wasn't the govt why would you ever want anyone to have that much control over your personal belongings


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## DBM78 (Apr 11, 2010)

Check out the link below from Forbes about the worst vehicles made. Another GON member posted it in this section. You will notice that Chevrolet leads in having the worst made cars. There was not a single forgein vehicle on the list. This might come to a surpise to some of you but to myself its things I have been saying for the past couple of weeks.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=4835302#post4835302


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## Son (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm more and more inclined to go along with the stinks part. No sooner than I get one thing fixed, another breaks. I know the truck is nine years old, but this has been going on ever since I bought it. The dealership is out of business, no dealer to go to unless I go to another country or state. The local dealer never fixed anything anyway, so don't miss em. The first year they had my truck for a total of over a month, four different times. Fixed nothing. When the warranty ran out, I replaced the radiator, front strut/shocks, front hub assembley, third door latch, seat adj handle, and tried to fix the heater. The ABS brakes have never worked properly, wears out the back pads, but never the front. Most changed out parts are fuel pumps, back brake pads, hub assemblys and bearing/seals.
Salesman once ask if it was time for me to buy a new truck. And I said, "What for, I almost got this one fixed". But now I'm wondering if these  2001 Chevys can ever be fixed for long.


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## MudDucker (Apr 12, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> No but I should to help me deal with all these poor confused people down here!!!



You are the confused one.  This late in the game and you don't even know your history.  The north invaded the south ... hence the true name, the war of northern aggression.  At the beginning of the war, we thought you yankees wanted our land and our women. (Yes, even back then, the Southern female was far more attractive than the yankee version).  When we learned that you yankees only wanted our slaves (a then dying institution), we stopped fighting.  Many of those slaves were taken to Detroit where they became "freed" slaves to northern industry.  Look at Detroit today and tell me again, who won the war.  

As the late great Louis Grizzard said, Delta flies out of Atlanta everyday, including flights to the northern wasteland.  If you can get a long down here, pack a bag and get on along back up there!


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## whitworth (Apr 12, 2010)

*Sticks!  General Motors?*

Didn't they just get good ratings?  Why they have a solid track record over the lifetime of most younger Americans. Of course, they wouldn't remember the '57 Chevy.
Why GM has grown into Government Motors and they have good union workers who have jobs for life inspite of any hard times.  

I have no idea why anyone would complain about a GM product.  That's why they're so well financially.


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 12, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> And i have never heard of GM trucks having  trans problems?? where did you hear that from....... or was it just one truck that you heard of that happened too??
> 
> =



Maybe some of the owners on here will swallow their pride and tell us how theirs have held up. Ive personally known of 3 that have failed while towing, 2 were older 95&93 and 1 newer, and now a 2500 06 model at 60k just took a dump, so yes i think they need work.


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## grouper throat (Apr 12, 2010)

I can't believe you're complaining about a seal that's older. It's not like it's new or even a few years old? 

Every truck I've ever owned was a Chevy and always will be. I've never seen any toyotas  stand up to the abuse most of my hunting crew can dish out on trucks. They never make the mistake of buying a toyota twice! Maybe a ford, but defintiely not a toyota. You can forget towing anything with that v6 too as they won't pull the hat off your head LOL. 

I've had 2 recent Chevys that I put half the miles on them doghunting in the woods and hauling boats and trailers with. My current one (2004) has 114,000 miles on it and the one before it had 120,000. I've never had any trouble out of either trucks and they are tough as nails to withstand me. If I didn't love Chevys I would definitely drive a Ford.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 12, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Maybe some of the owners on here will swallow their pride and tell us how theirs have held up. Ive personally known of 3 that have failed while towing, 2 were older 95&93 and 1 newer, and now a 2500 06 model at 60k just took a dump, so yes i think they need work.



Thats wierd....my father has an 01 GMC 1500 that he takes care of with 180k on it, never had a single major problem out of it....he pulls a 30ft fifth wheel back and fourth from Michigan to GA... 

Motor - trans ,still strong and solid..... 

So i dont know what to tell ya chief!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 12, 2010)

2011GADawg said:


> Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us



Hey guy...umm I think you are trying way to hard!!!

That theory is the most ridiculous load of crap I have ever heard!!!


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## MonroeTaco (Apr 12, 2010)

OnStar does have the capability to remotely control parts of the vehicle. FWIW, I have owned 6 Toyota 4x4's and logged over half a million miles between them with absolutely zero problems. I drive a Ford now, but I wouldn't hesitate buying another Yota. The only Chevy I had was an 88 S-10 that needed a new tranny at 57,000 miles. Sold that piece to the mechanic for $100- what it was worth to get it out of my driveway.





THWACKG5 said:


> Hey guy...umm I think you are trying way to hard!!!
> 
> That theory is the most ridiculous load of crap I have ever heard!!!





2011GADawg said:


> Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us


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## Nicodemus (Apr 12, 2010)

Ya`ll keep it civil, or this thread will go.


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## MonroeTaco (Apr 12, 2010)

Sorry Nic, post edited.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 12, 2010)

2011GADawg said:


> Here is a theory about government motors ok so everyone knows about on star well now they are making these things where on star enables chevy (the government) to know exactly where you are at all times and enables them to control your car ie turn it off lock the doors etc. now why should the govt ever have that much control over the people that are supposed to have control over the govt its socialism, I fear that We will soon (in a few years) have to take advantage of the one thing we have left, our guns and fight to gain our freedom that they are trying to take from us



Your gonna wish you had Onstar when your driving to your hunt club one morning, and wrap your Toyota around a tree because it wouldnt slow down, as your laying there trying to figure out what happened with no way to call for help.....then what?!!!

I surely dont wish that on anybody, but Im just saying!! 


Besides if the Gov. wants to know where you are at all times..trust me they will know whether you have Onstar or not!! 

Oh and also..the Gov wil NEVER take our guns..... 
Everybody needs to just chill the freak out on that!! It's way to big of tax paying industry in the United States for them to take it. 
Why would they extiguish such a money maker? 
The Dems have been threatning that crap for years....So you can stop buying up all the ammo at Wallie World, and hiding it in your back yard becasue Im getting sick of having to search for 45 ACP rounds!!!!!


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## 66 POJ (Apr 12, 2010)

I used to have nothing but Chevys back in the early '90's.
I now have all Fords. There has been a big swing in that direction in the past several years.


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## DBM78 (Apr 12, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Your gonna wish you had Onstar when your driving to your hunt club one morning, and wrap your Toyota around a tree because it wouldnt slow down, as your laying there trying to figure out what happened with no way to call for help.....then what?!!!
> 
> I surely dont wish that on anybody, but Im just saying!!
> 
> ...



READ THE FACTS AGAIN LIKE I HAVE AND OTHERS HAVE REPEATED. THE REPORT BELOW IS AN INDEPENDANT REPORT NOT A SINGLE FOREGIN CAR IS ON THE LIST. WAKE UP THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.

FORBES
Vehicles
Worst-Made Cars On The Road
Hannah Elliott, 04.07.10, 05:00 PM EDT 

If you want to drive something dependable and long-lasting, steer clear of these vehicles. 

In Depth: Worst-Made Cars On The Road


With a 22% improvement in sales last month, and despite the six-month, $4.3-billion loss it announced Wednesday, General Motors is likely to have its strongest spring and summer in years. Plus, the automaker had critically acclaimed new products at the recent New York Auto Show and the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt is due out this fall. 

Year-over-year sales of GM's Cadillac division alone are up almost 76%; sales in the Buick, Chevrolet and GMC divisions were each up more than 40% for March. The industry as a whole was up 24.3%.

Unfortunately just because GM's cars are selling well now doesn't mean they're the best bet for durability or value--yet. It'll take awhile before GM's new direction shows up in tangible new products at the dealership.

In Depth: Worst-Made Cars On The Road 

Four of the seven vehicles on our list of the worst-made cars on the road come from GM brands. And all of the cars on the list--including Chrysler's Dodge Nitro and Jeep Wrangler--are made by Detroit's Big Three. Only one car on the list is made by Ford Motor ( F - news - people ).

Behind the Numbers

To determine our list of the worst-made cars on the road, we started with the lowest-rated vehicles from four reliability and performance studies conducted this year. Those studies are all from Consumer Reports: The Most Reliable Cars Report; Best and Worst Values Report; Best and Worst Safety Performance Survey; and the CR overall scores for 2010 vehicles. 

We then added to the list any vehicles that received fewer than three out of five power circles in this year's Vehicle Dependability Study from J.D. Power and Associates. Any car, truck or SUV named among the worst in at least three of those five total studies made the final cut to be on the "Worst-Made" list. 

*The biggest surprise on the list, given recent automotive news: It includes no Toyota ( TM - news - people )-made vehicles. In fact, Toyota reported a 40.7% gain in sales last month over March 2009; its Lexus division was up 42%. (Generous buyer incentives greatly contributed to those numbers.) And although Consumer Reports has removed its "recommended pick" distinction from Toyota vehicles involved in the current recall, many analysts are standing by their previous assessments of Toyota's well-made products.

"Toyota and Lexus both were fairly steady on their quality" in the dependability report released last month, says Dave Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of global vehicle research. "Toyota has both good quality and a high consumer perception of their quality--so Toyota is very much in line."*

Chevrolet hasn't fared as well. Overall sales at Chevrolet are up, but sales of the $16,985 Chevrolet Colorado were down 21.9% year-over-year. Sales of the truck are down 32.2% for the year to date. 

The $11,965 Chevrolet Aveo made our list too--but probably won't in the very near future. When the 2012 Aveo comes out next year, it'll feature styling improvements (large vents in the front, 19'' wheels, circular headlights) and performance upgrades (likely a 1.4-liter, four-cylinder turbo-boosted engine with 138 horsepower and a six-speed manual transmission). Early photos and speculation from experts like Jake Fisher, the senior automotive engineer at Consumer Reports, indicate it'll hold its own against Nissan's ( NSANY - news - people ) Versa and Honda's ( HMC - news - people ) Fit--two reliable, affordable, strong sellers. 

Tough Trucks?
Aside from the Aveo, though, most of the worst-made cars on our list aren't cars at all--they're trucks and SUVs. Besides the Colorado, GMC's $16,985 Canyon and Ford's $28,020 F-250 received some of the lowest scores of any vehicles we considered. The Canyon SLE, for instance, was listed by Consumer Reports as one of the worst values of any 2010 vehicle and as one of the least reliable new vehicles on the market this year. It received just two out of five power circles on J.D. Power's overall dependability rating. 

The F-250 Lariat earned both the "worst value" and "worst safety performance" distinctions from Consumer Reports this year. It received an overall score of just 37 out of 100 points for predicted reliability, fuel economy, depreciation, ride, owner costs, accident avoidance, front-seat comfort, acceleration and owner satisfaction. 

Cadillac Escalade
Segment: Luxury SUV
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Fair
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in safety performance
CR Overall Score: 61 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $62,495

Chevrolet Aveo
Segment: Compact Car
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in overall safety performance
CR Overall Score: 36 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $11,965

Chevrolet Colorado
Segment: Pickup Truck
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Not rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety performance
CR Overall Score: 41 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $16,985

Dodge Nitro
Segment: SUV
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in safety performance
CR Overall Score: 33 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $22,335

Ford F-250
Segment: Pickup Truck
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Rated among the worst in overall safety performance
CR Overall Score: 37 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 3 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $28,020

GMC Canyon
Segment: Pickup Truck
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in overall safety performance
CR Overall Score: 41 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $16,985

Jeep Wrangler
Segment: SUV
CR Predicted Reliability Score: Poor
CR Value Score: Rated among the worst in overall value (Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara)
CR Safety Score: Not rated among the worst in overall safety performance
CR Overall Score: 17 out of 100
J.D. Power Dependability Score: 2 out of 5 Power Circles
MSRP: $21,915


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## MYCAR47562 (Apr 13, 2010)

chevy trans have been crap for ever, luckily chevy knows this and makes the parts cheaper. 60k for a truck trans is the norm


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## 2011GADawg (Apr 13, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Your gonna wish you had Onstar when your driving to your hunt club one morning, and wrap your Toyota around a tree because it wouldnt slow down, as your laying there trying to figure out what happened with no way to call for help.....then what?!!!
> 
> I surely dont wish that on anybody, but Im just saying!!
> 
> ...



um actually I have a ford not a Toyota, and I didnt say anything about the govt taking our guns, i said that we might have to use them, and on star will make finding folks easier for the govt to keep up with folks and why are you being so critical I said it was just a theory not a fact


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## jimbo4116 (Apr 13, 2010)

MYCAR47562 said:


> chevy trans have been crap for ever, luckily chevy knows this and makes the parts cheaper. 60k for a truck trans is the norm



I have to disagree.  I have a 1999 that has 173K on it. 50 or 60K pulling 16ft trailer with 3000# of equipment.  My brother had a 1992 250K with a 100k pulling a trailer. Niether had trans troubles. Got a 1999 Tahoe with 112K and it pulls the boat just like the day we got it.

I was provided  Ford pick ups for 26 years.  Had 7 of them, 3 had to have transmissions, two had to have engines at 80k. But in fairness a former employee bought the last one with 110K and is still driving it 12 years later.

When I was put in a position of buying my own trucks, I bought Chevys and have not had any engine or trans troubles.

But that doesn't mean you didn't get a bad one and if you buy enough fords or toyotas you will get a bad one of them as well.

I bought a new chevy because 65 local jobs are in the balance and none are union.


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## jimbo4116 (Apr 13, 2010)

MYCAR47562 said:


> chevy trans have been crap for ever, luckily chevy knows this and makes the parts cheaper. 60k for a truck trans is the norm



I have to disagree.  I have a 1999 that has 173K on it. 50 or 60K pulling 16ft trailer with 3000# of equipment.  My brother had a 1992 250K with a 100k pulling a trailer. Niether had trans troubles. Got a 1999 Tahoe with 112K and it pulls the boat just like the day we got it.

I was provided  Ford pick ups for 26 years.  Had 7 of them, 3 had to have transmissions, two had to have engines at 80k. But in fairness a former employee bought the last one with 110K and is still driving it 12 years later.

When I was put in a position of buying my own trucks, I bought Chevys and have not had any engine or trans troubles.

But that doesn't mean you didn't get a bad one and if you buy enough fords or toyotas you will get a bad one of them as well.

I bought a new chevy because 35 local jobs are in the balance and none are union.


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## Ford Man (Apr 17, 2010)

*everything chevy DONT stink*

you gotta be kiddin because americans make good cars


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## jrmmh1215 (Apr 18, 2010)

I have owned a total of 5 Toyota pickups any where from 1st. gen to 3rd. and had to replace head gaskets on all put two trans in one blew motor up in another broke several axles but dont get me wrong I think they are good trucks if you like to work on your vehicles alot. and before you ask they all had less than 150,000 miles on them when they went to heck. I have had two fords now and to be honest would walk than drive another one I spent more time on the side of the road in those two rangers {86 and a 95} than I spent at home. I have had several chevys and loved eveyone of them and the worse thing I ever had happen to one was a power steering presure hose blow. So I guess every man to his own but I have had more luck out of CHEVYS than I have anything else. And before you Yota lovers ask what I was doing to tear up the yotas that bad I go Rock crawling as a hobby and my rig now is a chevy and that presure hose that busted was on my buggy. So as far as recreational and daily driving use IMO a toyota just cant compare to a CHEVY.


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## Mako22 (Apr 18, 2010)

All of this defense of chevy doesn't change one thing, I still own a 5 year old chevy van with a leaking windshield. In my 26 years of driving many different vehicles I have never had one go to leaking in the front glass!


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## fburris (Apr 18, 2010)

My Chevy has 197,000 miles on it with only belts, brakes, tires, and battery changed. My Ford has 365,000 miles with the same things changed. My Isuzu Rodeo has 112, 000 miles on it, and it sits under the garage with a bad engine.
Yankees are OK. They just have big mouths for the most part. You treat them like dog poop and they love the crap out of you. I learned that a long time ago. You get their respect from treating them like poop, just like they like to do other people. It is a weird mentality, but I have fun with it.


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 19, 2010)

jrmmh1215 said:


> I have owned a total of 5 Toyota pickups any where from 1st. gen to 3rd. and had to replace head gaskets on all put two trans in one blew motor up in another broke several axles but dont get me wrong I think they are good trucks if you like to work on your vehicles alot. and before you ask they all had less than 150,000 miles on them when they went to heck. I have had two fords now and to be honest would walk than drive another one I spent more time on the side of the road in those two rangers {86 and a 95} than I spent at home. I have had several chevys and loved eveyone of them and the worse thing I ever had happen to one was a power steering presure hose blow. So I guess every man to his own but I have had more luck out of CHEVYS than I have anything else. And before you Yota lovers ask what I was doing to tear up the yotas that bad I go Rock crawling as a hobby and my rig now is a chevy and that presure hose that busted was on my buggy. So as far as recreational and daily driving use IMO a toyota just cant compare to a CHEVY.



You must have fell out of 1 of your rockcrawlers and bumped your head on a rock. I can see comparing the full size trucks , but the small ones , there is no way a s-10, ranger,or a dakota is going to go thru what you can do to a small yota, trust me i have done it, and several freinds and relatives have done it. I mean if were going to talk about reliability here, TOYOTA invented that with their small trucks.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 19, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> READ THE FACTS AGAIN LIKE I HAVE AND OTHERS HAVE REPEATED. THE REPORT BELOW IS AN INDEPENDANT REPORT NOT A SINGLE FOREGIN CAR IS ON THE LIST. WAKE UP THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.
> 
> FORBES
> Vehicles
> ...





Sorry for the delay I've been on vacation..

The Escalade  of course it got bad ratings its rediculously over priced!!!  But why would GM lower the price on them if people are going to keep buying them up!!  I cant believe how many people pay that kind of money for a vehicle, but you see them every where....

The current model year Aveo in my opinion is a big flop.. its a tiny little car that does'nt get the MPG that it should...nobody wants it.. I cant blame them.
But as this report also states the next model year Aveo will not be on this list.

with all vehicles on this reports how do they figure the "predicted Realiability" ??  That isnt factual to me, that is a prediction of human opinion.  No hard data.
Now I didnt take the time to read this whole report so correct me if i missed something on how they figure that.

And for the Colorado and Canyon...its the same truck, count it as a different product if you like but what ever.. Again its over priced you can almost go buy a full size for what you're gonna pay for these trucks. And again I know alot of people and have people in my family who own them and I havent heard of any reliability issues with them, so i dont know about that??. 

But with all of these vehicles like I have said before sure GM isnt perfect by all means, they have there faults, these vehicles are all part of the "OLD" GM anyways which we all now was lacking. 

But a company that has so many models to choose from having 3 vehicles on a "worst made" list doesnt even compare to being in a Consumers Resport DONT BUY warning!!!!   hahaha

How about that piece of junk "high dollar"  Lexus GX460!! YET ANOTHER TOYOTA SAFETY  RECALL.....when will Toyota's safety recalls end?? will they just keep on pilling up??

Seriously....they have stopped all sales on this thing because it is susceptible to rolling over....niiiiiice THAT SURE IS SOME PROOF IN THE PUDDING THERE BUDDY!!!  

Has GM ever had such huge safety recalls on problems that they KNEW ABOUT THE WHOLE TIME AND TRIED TO HIDE???? That doesnt sounds like a company I want to give my money to, OR trust my families life in!!!

Im mean come on what a joke of a company!!! 
Toyota just agreed to pay a RECORD fine of $16.4 MILLION dollars to recall all of there GX 460's, once agian for selling there crap to us all while trying to hide the safety issues....oh but there a great company..COME ON FOLKS WAKE UP!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 19, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> All of this defense of chevy doesn't change one thing, I still own a 5 year old chevy van with a leaking windshield. In my 26 years of driving many different vehicles I have never had one go to leaking in the front glass!



I cannot disagree with you there man...your front glass should not leak after that amount of time!! 
Thats ridiculous and I can understand your frustration, but you should bad mouth the whole company because of one window seal fluke!! 
I have owned lots and lots of GM products some old some new and have never had anything like that happen. 
It is surely not a good enough of a reason to want to go buy foreign!!! 
I bet some where there is a 5 year old Toyota van that has a bad window seal that leaks as well.. Something like that can happen to any brand of vehicle..


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 19, 2010)

fburris said:


> My Chevy has 197,000 miles on it with only belts, brakes, tires, and battery changed. My Ford has 365,000 miles with the same things changed. My Isuzu Rodeo has 112, 000 miles on it, and it sits under the garage with a bad engine.
> Yankees are OK. They just have big mouths for the most part. You treat them like dog poop and they love the crap out of you. I learned that a long time ago. You get their respect from treating them like poop, just like they like to do other people. It is a weird mentality, but I have fun with it.



HAHA Thats funny... 

I was wondering why every one was so freaking nice down here!?!?!


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## DBM78 (Apr 20, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Sorry for the delay I've been on vacation..
> 
> The Escalade  of course it got bad ratings its rediculously over priced!!!  But why would GM lower the price on them if people are going to keep buying them up!!  I cant believe how many people pay that kind of money for a vehicle, but you see them every where....
> 
> ...



You should go back and read the whole report. It says nothing about "predictions" it is from research and studies this year from J.D Power and CR.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 20, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> You should go back and read the whole report. It says nothing about "predictions" it is from research and studies this year from J.D Power and CR.



I dont have time to read the whole report....Im still at work.
It actually uses the words "CR Predicted Reliability Score" for each vehicle listed..

So what are your thoughts and feeling on the Lexus junk along with the heaping pile of safety recalls that Toyota has been busted with while trying to hide everything from the public!!

Does that sound like "quality" to you?? 

You sure are awefully silent about it!?!?


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## jrmmh1215 (Apr 20, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> You must have fell out of 1 of your rockcrawlers and bumped your head on a rock. I can see comparing the full size trucks , but the small ones , there is no way a s-10, ranger,or a dakota is going to go thru what you can do to a small yota, trust me i have done it, and several freinds and relatives have done it. I mean if were going to talk about reliability here, TOYOTA invented that with their small trucks.



I can agree there to an extent but have to say that a chevy luv put me to shame everytime we went playing and I was driving a yota now that the heavy chevy is my rig it doesnt happen anymore


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## jrmmh1215 (Apr 20, 2010)

I tell you what boys I can tell you this much nobody makes cars as good as they use to.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 21, 2010)

Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!


Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!   

Just in case you didnt here it is.. 
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-motors-repays-81-billion-government-loans/story?id=10437944


Funny how nobody wants to bring that up, but ya want to talk about some stupid report JD put out on vehicles developed under GM's OLD structure...


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 22, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!
> ...



Im still here, and ill put my toyotas reliability up against your gm any day!


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## kracker (Apr 22, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!
> ...


Slide on over to the political forum, the GM repayment is being discussed there.


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## Sweethoneybeads (Apr 22, 2010)

copenhagen cowboy said:


> your right all have faults,, but this is America,, why support the foreign countries.. I have owned every make and model there is, and dodge is one of my favorites, and ford up second, not defending any auto maker, but now days just cannot stand for someone to buy and help support foreign countries.



Chevy Equinox engines are made in China and then assembled in Canada.  How is that for supporting foreign countries?


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## Sweethoneybeads (Apr 22, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Has GM ever had such huge safety recalls on problems that they KNEW ABOUT THE WHOLE TIME AND TRIED TO HIDE???? That doesnt sounds like a company I want to give my money to, OR trust my families life in!!!
> 
> Im mean come on what a joke of a company!!!
> Toyota just agreed to pay a RECORD fine of $16.4 MILLION dollars to recall all of there GX 460's, once agian for selling there crap to us all while trying to hide the safety issues....oh but there a great company..COME ON FOLKS WAKE UP!!!


Here is some "PROOF PUDDING" that you may find hard to swallow........

GM had side mounted gas tanks in trucks in the 70's and 80's that would explode during side impact.  Hundreds of people died from burning to death in these trucks.  GM knew this was dangerous and that people were dying from it but yet still continued with this design anyway because it would save them money.

Eventually they were held liable for it.  Case had Georgia connections as the plantiff's were from Georgia.  

Article from 1993 NY TIMES:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/05/u...fuel-tanks-in-pickup-trucks.html?pagewanted=1

So THWACK, how does your foot taste?


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## Sweethoneybeads (Apr 22, 2010)

Here is a little more reading for you along with pics and interviews.

http://www.fairwarning.org/2010/03/old-trucks-leave-fiery-legacy-smoldering-anger/


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## DBM78 (Apr 22, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!
> ...



Lexus recalled all of the 2010 GX 460's it was only 6,000 vehicles. I say that's getting ahead of a problem and not hidding it. But there is no changing your mind keep supporting GM "Gov Motors". I think its funny we haven't anymore reports about the Toyota Prius gas pedal problems in while after the media did their job and found that most of the claims were faked. So the Toyota owners have been quite there is nothing to prove. You just remember that whatever you post on here I will be fact checking to find the truth no more of your half truth stories and blowing things out of proportion.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sweethoneybeads said:


> Here is some "PROOF PUDDING" that you may find hard to swallow........
> 
> GM had side mounted gas tanks in trucks in the 70's and 80's that would explode during side impact.  Hundreds of people died from burning to death in these trucks.  GM knew this was dangerous and that people were dying from it but yet still continued with this design anyway because it would save them money.
> 
> ...



I thought you would never go there!!! But ya did..

Critics are always going to make everything sound as bad as they can, so basically "critics" can say what they want. 
Yes this was a horrible thing, and I obviously GM was at fault and paid for it. 
They didnt try to hide the problem, they did know what the problem was at first, you cant place a recall on a product that is having issues if you can 100% say it is a quality issue. How many thousands of vehicles caught on fire during an accident during those years, I bet alot of them were other than GM!!! 
Additionally, GM gast tank thing wasnt an add on to a pile of other safety issues that recently surfaced.

You know every auto maker has recalls, it's just what happens, and we can go back and fourth all day long with them how ever many years back you want to go. 

What I am more focused on here are the present day issues we are faced with, everybody wanting to ship there money out of the country, the justifications for that and the CURRENT events that are taking place with automakers!! 
You can go dig up as much old dirt on GM as you want and it doesnt make a bit of difference as to what is happening today!!


As for your whole " proof pudding " statement....   hang on a minute.. I cant type and laugh at the same time.....
It all came from you calling the CR review proof to something!!!!!  Proof of what!!!!  what do you think that proves!!!  It doesnt proove a freaking thing!!! Its a stupid review that pretty much means nothing in the real world!!! Explain to me how that is proof of anything???


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 22, 2010)

kracker said:


> Slide on over to the political forum, the GM repayment is being discussed there.



HAHA Thats not even worth my time, it would just be like talking to a pile of bricks...I've already wasted too much time in this thread as it is!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 22, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Lexus recalled all of the 2010 GX 460's it was only 6,000 vehicles. I say that's getting ahead of a problem and not hidding it. But there is no changing your mind keep supporting GM "Gov Motors". I think its funny we haven't anymore reports about the Toyota Prius gas pedal problems in while after the media did their job and found that most of the claims were faked. So the Toyota owners have been quite there is nothing to prove. You just remember that whatever you post on here I will be fact checking to find the truth no more of your half truth stories and blowing things out of proportion.



Actually everything I read said 9,400 vehicles..you are a little low. How is that getting ahead of a problem, CR is the one who found it in the first place!!!  So you are telling me Toyota engineers are SO good they couldnt even figure out that there high dollar SUV could flip itself over in a tight turn!!!  

Basically what happened is, with all the safety issues they have been having pilling up lately, they could'nt afford yet another recall. So they tried to push it through, and CR busted them!! They knew about it, at least I would hope they would test there vehicle better than that during development!! Then again it is Toyota who knows!!

The gas pedal thing is old news now, there not going to publicize every single claim, sure there were folks out there trying to get a buck with fake claims. But do you really think Toyota would have recalled 2.3 million vehicles in the US just in Jan. if were just a bunch of fakes!!!   uumm dont think so!

And about you suddenly wanting to "fact check" me haha you are just know starting!!!! 
I could only assume if you're going to run your mouth you have been "fact checking" all along!!!  
Check away friend!!!! 
And also tell me what "half truth" story you are refurring too??


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## tcward (Apr 22, 2010)

kracker said:


> Slide on over to the political forum, the GM repayment is being discussed there.



Naw, thwack just gonna stay here and defend OMC. 










obama motors corporation


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 22, 2010)

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...k-poll-americans-say-us-cars-top-asian-autos/


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## Nicodemus (Apr 22, 2010)

How long are you fellers gonna argufy this one?


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 22, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> How long are you fellers gonna argufy this one?



haha Yeah its starting to get a bit old.....we're approaching the 5th page!!
Im not going to change anyones mind as nobody's gonna change mine.....

Im just going to keep posting all the trouble Toyota keeps getting into and the Yota guys will just keep denying it... as GM keeps regaining loyal ship and strength, we'll see how things pan out in the months to come.

Remember........"the proof is in the puddin"   

Ol well life goes on....I hope we can all get along out side of this thread!!  
After all this isnt the crap I joined for!!


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!
> ...



I read that somewhere but they still owe 40 billion. 8 billion is a drop in the bucket. I don't care who you are a private company that is majority owned by the Goverment is wrong. 

$40,000,000,000.00 Thats a lot of zeros there.

Nice try THWACK another of your half truths proven wrong tell the whole story the good and the bad.


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## LowCountryDuck (Apr 23, 2010)

*Bet you dont change your own flats...*

First off every brand has lemons, lately I have been told by my license and trained mechanic who is also my older brother that foreign auto makers are the ones with more lemons because they are building cars in AMERICA. Also they belive they had the edge over the big 3 and could cut corners and get slack on their quality (toyota's brakes and gas pedal problems). I drive a 2005 chevy 2500 diesel and a 2001 1500 5.3 l V-8 both were bought used by me. Im 21 and in college, I dont have alot of extra money to spend fixing stuff so I bought what I knew was going to last me. I have had the 1500 since I was 17 and it has 153,000 miles on it never a problem. Service work does wonders, the 2500 has well over 200,000 miles and pulls a cow/horse trailer and equipment trailer all the time with no problems. Not to mention that 1500 saved my life when a Nisson Titan hit me...I get a new bumper they had to get a new truck and the hospital bill. THIS IS MY TESTIMONY and MY OPINION, but if the American people would get off there lazy backside and service their vehicles then they would last any car would you cant run a transmission 100,000 miles and not service it... Im not saying that you dont get a lemon every now and then my brother did with a jeep but you have to look at the product as a whole. Maybe one of our ga boys got lazy putting the windshield in your car...My family have always driven nothing but GM except on rare occasions (the jeep mentioned before) for 4 generations and hopefully now that the silverado is the consumers choice best truck for 2010 will continue to for generations to come. Also I dare you to say to my face that I am un-American or support everything OBAMA does because I drive GM. Further more my family didnt leave two of its members on small pacific islands and another in Korea for me to turn around and put money in their pockets by buying asian autos. No sir not at all. Yea the US goverment may own 40% of GM but at least I keep the money in American hands.


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

LowCountryDuck said:


> First off every brand has lemons, lately I have been told by my license and trained mechanic who is also my older brother that foreign auto makers are the ones with more lemons because they are building cars in AMERICA. Also they belive they had the edge over the big 3 and could cut corners and get slack on their quality (toyota's brakes and gas pedal problems). I drive a 2005 chevy 2500 diesel and a 2001 1500 5.3 l V-8 both were bought used by me. Im 21 and in college, I dont have alot of extra money to spend fixing stuff so I bought what I knew was going to last me. I have had the 1500 since I was 17 and it has 153,000 miles on it never a problem. Service work does wonders, the 2500 has well over 200,000 miles and pulls a cow/horse trailer and equipment trailer all the time with no problems. Not to mention that 1500 saved my life when a Nisson Titan hit me...I get a new bumper they had to get a new truck and the hospital bill. THIS IS MY TESTIMONY and MY OPINION, but if the American people would get off there lazy backside and service their vehicles then they would last any car would you cant run a transmission 100,000 miles and not service it... Im not saying that you dont get a lemon every now and then my brother did with a jeep but you have to look at the product as a whole. Maybe one of our ga boys got lazy putting the windshield in your car...My family have always driven nothing but GM except on rare occasions (the jeep mentioned before) for 4 generations and hopefully now that the silverado is the consumers choice best truck for 2010 will continue to for generations to come. Also I dare you to say to my face that I am un-American or support everything OBAMA does because I drive GM. Further more my family didnt leave two of its members on small pacific islands and another in Korea for me to turn around and put money in their pockets by buying asian autos. No sir not at all. Yea the US goverment may own 40% of GM but at least I keep the money in American hands.



U.S Goverment owns 60% of GM.

A little more information for THWACK and other GM supporters.

GM Still Owes Us
Jerry Flint, 04.21.10, 04:43 PM EDT
Forbes magazine online

The government loan the automaker paid off is just a fraction of the support it's received.

Far be it for me to rain on anyone's parade, but don't be fooled: General Motors has not paid its debt back to taxpayers.

The company got $50 billion from our government, and $10 billion more from Canada. They have paid the U.S. back $7 billion plus interest, as I understand it, including the latest payment of nearly $5 billion. So they say they paid us back.

Not quite: That still leaves $43 billion.

GM can say they paid us back because of the $50 billion in total support, only $7 billion was counted as a loan and the rest was traded for equity in the company that emerged from bankruptcy. But that is really an accounting trick so that GM doesn't have to pay interest on that money.

What seems to have happened is that of the $50 billion given to GM, the company burned through some, and then paid back $7 billion from what they didn't spend.

We are supposed to get the remainder when GM sells stock. 

Maybe we will, maybe we won't. If GM sold 1 billion shares at $25 each, that would be $25 billion, not enough to cover the whole debt. You never know, but I think the odds are against getting back all our money.

Still, we should be grateful.

General Motors is making progress, although it has a long way to go to achieve a solid recovery.

Its costs are down sharply: no bond interest to pay, no stockholder dividends, lower labor costs and retiree medical costs taken care of by the taxpayer (through that $50 billion), which will make it easier to make a profit. It's growing its business in China and Brazil, and the product is much improved--really, competitive with anyone. 

But the company still has troubles. Car sales are weak, and the bulk of its business still is in trucks and big SUVs.

And its competitors aren't standing still: Ford Motor ( F - news - people ) threatens to become the best seller in Canada, replacing GM, and Hyundai's new Sonata family sedan will challenge GM's best-selling car, the Chevrolet Malibu.

So be happy that we got our $7 billion back, but just remember we put up a whole lot more.

As far as Chrysler goes, we gave them $12 billion--I think, every time I ask I get another number--and the Italian automaker Fiat ( FIATY.PK - news - people ) is working to turn the company around. But it will be a long, hard run.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/21/gen...mepagelighttop


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## LowCountryDuck (Apr 23, 2010)

Ok sorry the goverment owns 60%. I am an definatly wrong about 40%. My point is this my trucks and my dads work trucks and my mom suburban and all of my grandaddy's unlce's farm trucks are GM vehicles and I have yet to see a problem out of any of them. GM has new managment and a new direction they are paying off loans and starting to make a profit once again. Eventually they will become a privately owned company again and I will still buy their products. In my opinion a tundra or titan could not stand up to farm work or couldn't handle the work that I put both my trucks through. As for the chevy van with a leaky windshield...if your under a 100,000 miles its covered in the waranty. which by the way 100,000 really is 40,000 more miles than toyota covers...does this mean toyota thinks their cars are definatly going to give out after 60,000 miles and they dont want to fix it?


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 23, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> I read that somewhere but they still owe 40 billion. 8 billion is a drop in the bucket. I don't care who you are a private company that is majority owned by the Goverment is wrong.
> 
> $40,000,000,000.00 Thats a lot of zeros there.
> 
> Nice try THWACK another of your half truths proven wrong tell the whole story the good and the bad.




Explain to me how what I said is a half truth, i simply said
 "Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!! "  then I posted the link to the report!!!

Where did I ever say GM has paid back all of there loans???? I actually said the exact dollar amount paid!?!? 

And I thought I have been telling both good and bad admitting to GM's faults!!!

You need to slow down a bit and comprehend everything that you read...I have asked you multiple questions that you  have convienently blown right by and ignored, becasue you cant answer them??.....go back and do some re reading, I have made every attempt to answer every question you've had for me to the best of my knowledge...

If there is some place where I have said the GM has paid back 100% of there loans in full, show me....it was a mistake!!!!

Yeah you are right they arent finish.....but can you truly not see them moving in the right direction with paying the portion they paid back 5 YEARS AHEAD OF TIME  

So what are you going to say when the Gov. sells there GM stock for more than 45bil and the tax payers make a profit beside eat your foot.      Becasue they will !!

Toyota has made that task a little easier for them now!! 

Sorry buddy try again!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 23, 2010)

LowCountryDuck said:


> Ok sorry the goverment owns 60%. I am an definatly wrong about 40%. My point is this my trucks and my dads work trucks and my mom suburban and all of my grandaddy's unlce's farm trucks are GM vehicles and I have yet to see a problem out of any of them. GM has new managment and a new direction they are paying off loans and starting to make a profit once again. Eventually they will become a privately owned company again and I will still buy their products. In my opinion a tundra or titan could not stand up to farm work or couldn't handle the work that I put both my trucks through. As for the chevy van with a leaky windshield...if your under a 100,000 miles its covered in the waranty. which by the way 100,000 really is 40,000 more miles than toyota covers...does this mean toyota thinks their cars are definatly going to give out after 60,000 miles and they dont want to fix it?


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Explain to me how what I said is a half truth, i simply said
> "Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!! "  then I posted the link to the report!!!
> 
> Where did I ever say GM has paid back all of there loans???? I actually said the exact dollar amount paid!?!?
> ...



First what type of loan did GM get when they can pay off 8 billion into a 50 billion dollar debt 5 years ahead of time? Did you ever think that GM over borrowed and is just paying back money they don't need. What is intrest rate is that on 50 billion dollars? How many years is this loan for? 

Second you come on here and say GM payed back 8 billion 5 years ahead of time you conveniently left out that they still owe about 40 billion to the Gov/Tax paying  pubic.

Third you talk about GM is going to sell its stock. When and Where? They are not currently listed on the NYSC. What was GM stock last trading at? Keep dreaming. You are just misinformed.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 23, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> First what type of loan did GM get when they can pay off 8 billion into a 50 billion dollar debt 5 years ahead of time? Did you ever think that GM over borrowed and is just paying back money they don't need. What is intrest rate is that on 50 billion dollars? How many years is this loan for?
> 
> Second you come on here and say GM payed back 8 billion 5 years ahead of time you conveniently left out that they still owe about 40 billion to the Gov/Tax paying  pubic.
> 
> Third you talk about GM is going to sell its stock. When and Where? They are not currently listed on the NYSC. What was GM stock last trading at? Keep dreaming. You are just misinformed.



How did I conveniently leave anything out!?!?!!

I POSTED THE LINK TO ENTIRE ARTICLE FOR ALL TO READ!!!!!! 

You obviously didnt read it!!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 23, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> First what type of loan did GM get when they can pay off 8 billion into a 50 billion dollar debt 5 years ahead of time? Did you ever think that GM over borrowed and is just paying back money they don't need. What is intrest rate is that on 50 billion dollars? How many years is this loan for?
> 
> Second you come on here and say GM payed back 8 billion 5 years ahead of time you conveniently left out that they still owe about 40 billion to the Gov/Tax paying  pubic.
> 
> Third you talk about GM is going to sell its stock. When and Where? They are not currently listed on the NYSC. What was GM stock last trading at? Keep dreaming. You are just misinformed.






You seriously need to start doing some home work before running your mouth..... 
You dont even know what you are talking about. Gm isnt going to sell there stock, they gave it to the Gov. the Gov. will sell it to make the money back!!!  


Here is a little clip straigh out of the link I posted that you must of missed.

Benefits of Bankruptcy
With ownership of 61 percent of GM's shares, American taxpayers still have billions invested in the auto maker, but analysts say there's reason to believe that investment could now pay off. If the government can sell its stake in GM for more than $45 billion, then taxpayers could actually make a profit. 

"It would look awfully good if the Democrats could say, 'We saved a bunch of jobs, we got a successful company, and they taxpayers got paid back,'" said John Wolkonowicz, a senior analyst at HIS Global Insight. "That would be huge."

Am I still "conveniently" leaving anything out for you!!!!  Do you need me to call you on the phone and read the article to you!?!?!?!

DANG BOY WHEN WILL YOU LEARN!!!!!!


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So Goverment is going to spend our taxes on a private company that is failing and then sell their share of it and we have to buy it with our own money. When are you going to learn that doesn't make good sense. And good luck trying to do this most Americans  are not going to get the wool pulled over there eyes again. That sounds about right the Goverment thinking we would fall for that . You probably hate rich people and want to "spread the wealth around". Please tell me when the Goverment has gotten anything right?


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh and THWACK what about all of this about not shipping our money to forgien countries did you see where Canada spent 10 billion on GM along with the 50 billion from U.S Gov. Why would you support a company that sends money out of America? I'm sure Canada has their hand out and wanting some of that 8 billion payment.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 23, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> So Goverment is going to spend our taxes on a private company that is failing and then sell their share of it and we have to buy it with our own money. When are you going to learn that doesn't make good sense. And good luck trying to do this most Americans  are not going to get the wool pulled over there eyes again. That sounds about right the Goverment thinking we would fall for that .You probably hate rich people and want to "spread the wealth around". Please tell me when the Goverment has gotten anything right?




WHAT!!!!
HATE RICH PEOPLE!!!
DUDE...WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?!?!  

You were a fighter for a moment but now you have gotten way off track, you have know idea what you are saying anymore and you are no longer worth wasting my time on.. 

If you would like to have an inteligent/factual conversation about the topic then great. 

But as of know you officially have diarrhea of the mouth and you need to stop talking....  

Im out of the office until monday, have a good weekend and God bless


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Man all these safety recalls that Toyota has been trying to hide sure has shut the mouths of alot of folks in here!!!    where did everyone go!?!? It was just getting good!!!
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!!
> ...



Was this the article you were talking about from ABC News??? Just wondering I read it and have a serious question for you. How can a company that had a 4th quarter LOSS of 3.4 billion pay back 8.1 billion to the Goverment? I'm not making this up read the article. Also in the article on page 1 it says "analysts expect the company to turn a profit this year" well I hope so. So GM is still in the red after all of that bailout money?


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## deerehauler (Apr 23, 2010)

Wife got a 05 caddilac escalade and has had issue after issue.  Water pump at 40,000, Speedometer and tach stuck and didnt move. 3 differnt Air conditioning issues. Never owned a GM product before that. I have always owned Ford or Chrysler products. Got the bad taste and dont think I would by one agian.


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## DBM78 (Apr 23, 2010)

It took a while but I think I have finally gotten THWACK to see the light or maybe not. You see when you press somebody on the nonsense/half truth stories they post they will run out of excuses and run and hide don't think we will hear anything else out of him for a while. But I could be wrong he will post another head line about how great GM is and they are doing this and that I will research it and give everybody the rest of the story.


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## Emmersom Biggens (Apr 23, 2010)

I love my new Camaro,and my 02 Silverado, and my 09 Traverse. I have never had major problems with a GM product. Guess its just luck of the draw?


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## one hogman (Apr 23, 2010)

*Chevrolet rules!!!!!!*

Have yall not seen the Ad "The best made longest lasting trucks on the road!!! CHEVROLET, I have had chevys all my life that's all my daddy would drive.they are great trucks !! period!!!!


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## ryano (Apr 23, 2010)

deerehauler said:


> Wife got a 05 caddilac escalade and has had issue after issue.  Water pump at 40,000, Speedometer and tach stuck and didnt move. 3 differnt Air conditioning issues. Never owned a GM product before that. I have always owned Ford or Chrysler products. Got the bad taste and dont think I would by one agian.



Everybody makes a lemon once in a while..........Even precious Toyota that some are speaking so highly of around here.

I have a 2005 Colorado Z71 4X4 with 140,000 miles on it..."Supposedly" one of the most unreliable vehicles on the road according to "reports"......Ive put a power window regulator and a AC fan switch in it in 5 years.

Yep everything Chevy STINKS LOL  I guess I lucked up and got a good one.

Ive got a friend that posts here as well that has over 160,000 on his Colorado 4X4.......No problems at all yet.


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## hawgrider1200 (Apr 24, 2010)

I can't believe ya'll are still flogging this dead horse! Ya'll please agree that you disagree, neither of you are going to have a change of heart about this.


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## tcward (Apr 24, 2010)

ryano said:


> Everybody makes a lemon once in a while..........Even precious Toyota that some are speaking so highly of around here.
> 
> I have a 2005 Colorado Z71 4X4 with 140,000 miles on it..."Supposedly" one of the most unreliable vehicles on the road according to "reports"......Ive put a power window regulator and a AC fan switch in it in 5 years.
> 
> ...



Ok Ryano, we'll let you slide this time with your Colorado just don't buy anymore new trucks from BARRY!


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## DBM78 (Apr 24, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Explain to me how what I said is a half truth, i simply said
> "Oh by the way....did any of ya'll see that Gm has paid back $8.1 dollars in Gov. loans 5 YEARS A HEAD OF SCHEDULE!! "  then I posted the link to the report!!!
> 
> Where did I ever say GM has paid back all of there loans???? I actually said the exact dollar amount paid!?!?
> ...



Here's the rest of the story. It looks like GM has taken a page out of your book by only telling the good things and sweeping the bad under the rug. News alert the American public is not stupid and falling for it most Americans didn't want to save the GM sinking ship the first time it just got pushed through. GM as company has no morals or intergrity no surprise they are in the situation they are in.

Updated April 23, 2010
GM Could Be in Hot Water With FTC Over Truth in Advertising

FOXNews.com 

General Motors is running ads on all the major networks this week claiming it has repaid its bailout from the taxpayers "in full." But the claim isn't standing up to scrutiny from lawmakers and government watchdogs who have found that the automaker was able to repay the bailout money only by dipping into a separate pot of bailout funds.


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General Motors is running ads on all the major networks this week claiming it has repaid its bailout from the taxpayers "in full." But the claim isn't standing up to scrutiny from lawmakers and government watchdogs who have found that the automaker was able to repay the bailout money only by dipping into a separate pot of bailout funds.

The TV spot may land GM in hot water with the Federal Trade Commission over its truth-in-advertising laws, which prohibit ads that are "likely to mislead consumers."

"We have repaid our government loans in full — with interest — five years ahead of the original schedule," says Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of General Motors Company, asking Americans to give the bankrupt company another look.

But a top Senate Republican has accused GM of misleading taxpayers about the loan repayment, saying the struggling auto giant was able to repay a $6.7 billion bailout loan only by using other bailout funds in a special escrow account.

Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley's charge was backed up by the inspector general for the bailout — also known as the Trouble Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Watchdog Neil Barofsky told Fox News, as well as the Senate Finance Committee, that General Motors used bailout money to pay back the federal government.

"It appears to be nothing more than an elaborate TARP money shuffle," Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a letter Thursday to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

You Decide: Did GM Try to Pull a PR Fast One?

The FTC said it could not provide any comment on the ad or whether it had received any complaints or inquiries about GM's claims from the public or from government officials.

The FTC has a division of advertising practices that investigates possible false claims, but specific investigations are not made public. If the FTC determines that truth-in-advertising laws have been violated, the agency files complaints against the organizations in violation.

GM announced Wednesday that it had paid back the $8.1 billion in loans it received from the U.S. and Canadian governments in 2009. Of that, $6.7 billion went to the U.S. Treasury.

"A lot of Americans didn't agree with giving GM a second chance," Whitacre said in the 60-second ad. "We invite you to take a look at the new GM."

Well, meet the new GM. Same as the old GM. The company is still majority-owned by the federal government, which has a 60 percent stake in the Detroit titan; the Canadian government owns another 12 percent.

GM is not yet solvent, continues to be racked by debt and is still unable to turn a profit — something that has eluded the company since 2004. GM filed for bankruptcy in 2009 but was saved from collapse by a $52 billion infusion from the federal government.

But the company says the repaid TARP loan is a "good start," a signal that the company is emerging from its debts and moving back into the black.

"I think any way you look at it, that we're giving (loans) back with interest before we had to should be taken as a positive sign," said GM spokesman Greg Martin.

Martin said GM has not received any communications from the FTC or complaints from federal officials, and said that public feedback has been positive.

But Senator Grassley has called on Treasury Secretary Geithner to provide more information about why the company was allowed to use bailout money to repay bailout money, and how much of the remaining escrow money GM would be allowed to keep.

"The bottom line seems to be that the TARP loans were 'repaid' with other TARP funds in a Treasury escrow account. The TARP loans were not repaid from money GM is earning selling cars, as GM and the administration have claimed in their speeches, press releases and television commercials," he wrote.

But Barofsky told Fox News that while it's "somewhat good news," there's a big catch.

"I think the one thing that a lot of people overlook with this is where they got the money to pay back the loan. And it isn't from earnings. ... It's actually from another pool of TARP money that they've already received," he said Wednesday. "I don't think we should exaggerate it too much. Remember that the source of this money is just other TARP money."

Barofsky told the Senate Finance Committee the same thing Tuesday, and said the main way for the federal government to earn money out of GM would be through "a liquidation of its ownership interest."

Grassley criticized this scenario in his letter.

"The taxpayers are still on the hook, and whether TARP funds are ultimately recovered depends entirely on the government's ability to sell GM stock in the future. Treasury has merely exchanged a legal right to repayment for an uncertain hope of sharing in the future growth of GM. A debt-for-equity swap is not a repayment," Grassley wrote.


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## DBM78 (Apr 27, 2010)

IF FORD CAN DO IT WHY CAN'T GM?


Ford Posts $2.1 Billion Profit in First Quarter

Associated Press 

Ford Motor Co. says it earned $2.1 billion in the first quarter, another sign the economy is improving as people spend more on big-ticket items like cars.


DEARBORN, Mich. -- Ford Motor Co. says it earned $2.1 billion in the first quarter, another sign the economy is improving as people spend more on big-ticket items like cars.

The Dearborn-based company says net income per share was 50 cents in the quarter. That's an about-face from the same period last year when it lost $1.4 billion, or 60 cents per share, at the height of the recession.

The company says it was profitable in its key North American market, but it also made money in Asia, Latin America and Europe.

Ford's U.S. sales rose 37 percent for the quarter and its market share climbed nearly three percentage points. The automaker is benefiting from a rebound in auto sales, higher quality rankings and a boost to its reputation for avoiding government aid.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 27, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> It took a while but I think I have finally gotten THWACK to see the light or maybe not. You see when you press somebody on the nonsense/half truth stories they post they will run out of excuses and run and hide don't think we will hear anything else out of him for a while. But I could be wrong he will post another head line about how great GM is and they are doing this and that I will research it and give everybody the rest of the story.



Sorry there hotshot, I choose to spend my time with my family over the weekend not to waste my time with this crap!!

Like I have been telling you all along I have not been giving any half truths or what ever you wanna call it. I have always given you my opinion with facts to back it up.  

And I will tell you ONCE again , I understand GM isnt perfect, yes they have faults!!!!  I have said this numerous times!!!!!!  
My whole point isnt how great GM is..... yeah they still have a long ways to go before they get to where they need to be!

My whole point is that folks like you hope and pray they go down, or think they still will even after the loans... I am just saying look at what they have done so far, moving in the right direction!!!!

HAHA Trust me buddy Im not "running and hiding" !! 

Im a just really getting sick of arguing with a freaking brick wall!!!   I could tell you a thousand times and you still wont understand anything Im trying to say......YOU are getting really really old!!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 27, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Here's the rest of the story. It looks like GM has taken a page out of your book by only telling the good things and sweeping the bad under the rug. News alert the American public is not stupid and falling for it most Americans didn't want to save the GM sinking ship the first time it just got pushed through. GM as company has no morals or intergrity no surprise they are in the situation they are in.
> 
> Updated April 23, 2010
> GM Could Be in Hot Water With FTC Over Truth in Advertising
> ...





WELL THERES THE PROBLEM!!!!!   


Fox news is a joke.....

Now I see why you are so.......ummmmmm    lets see, I cant think of a way to put it without getting banned!!!!


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## DBM78 (Apr 27, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> WELL THERES THE PROBLEM!!!!!
> 
> 
> Fox news is a joke.....
> ...



Yep Fox News is a joke they have been #1 news outlet for almost 10 years. How are they wrong "fair and balanced"?

You still haven't answered any of my questions.

1. Where did GM get the 8.1 billion to payback loans if they had a 4th quarter loss of 4.3 billion?

2. You don't support foregin auto makers "because that sending money out of the country". But GM is 12% owned by Canada. How do you support GM then?

3. GM hasn't turned a profit since 2004 what makes you think they are going to start now?


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## Doyle (Apr 28, 2010)

> 1. Where did GM get the 8.1 billion to payback loans if they had a 4th quarter loss of 4.3 billion?



Never try to equate profit/loss (an accounting term) with available cash (a financial term).  The two are not related.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 28, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Yep Fox News is a joke they have been #1 news outlet for almost 10 years. How are they wrong "fair and balanced"?
> 
> You still haven't answered any of my questions.
> 
> ...





Question #1  You obviously don’t understand how business's show money, I am by all means no finacial expert but how could they show a profit if they owned money??

Making money and showing  a profit on the books is two different things, do you understand that concept? 

Gm paid back a 8.1 billion dollar loan, but only showed a 4.3 billion dollar loss on the books….that's pretty freakin good!!

They had to show a  4.3 billion dollar loss because it is inside the 8.1 billion dollars paid!!

If they paid 8.1 billion dollars but only showed a loss of 4.3 billion……its simple math….that means they made 3.8 billion somewhere!?!?!?! Right!?!?!

Gm has 32bil cash on hand right now, all accumulated after the bankruptcy, you say what you want it doesn’t really matter, you can't change the way it is!!

As for the Canadian thing, I could draw it all out real  long but basically "in a nut shell"  Canada is our sister country, all of Gm's profits made in the states or in Canada is all the same throughout the company, throughout the UAW it's all considered the same as far as where the money actually goes. I don’t know if I explained that very clear or not for you but there it is. It's nothing like buying foreign vehicles supporting Japan or anywhere else 


Your third question about what makes me think GM won't turn a profit now……Hahaha you just hang in there buddy, wait until the numbers for the next quarter come out, nut of course you will just deny it all , and want to argue their numbers!!!

If think its so funny how people like you just can't stand the fact that GM is coming back so fast and so hard, you just refuse to believe it!!!

 "How could Fox news be wrong" What!!!!! Did you really just say that??….you obviously don’t watch Fox news very often if you truly think they are fair and balanced!!! Why do you think they have to advertise that so much!!?? To make people like you think that they are..
They shouldnt even call themselves a news "outlet"!! They should be called "Fox entertainment" because thats all theyu are is entertainment!! 
They are Rep. Extremist for the most part, there is nothing "fair and balanced" about them!!

Let me guess who your favorite "analyst"/ "Journalist" (or whatever they think they are) is it Hannity, or how about the clown  Beck!!! Greta is annoying O'Ryleigh is OK sometimes, I guarantee I have watch more Fox crap than you have, so yes I know from experience. 

Also you need to start coming up with this stuff one your own, you are making it obvious that you are piecing information together from different people in other threads to come up with this stuff!!! 

How embarrassing, just leave it alone man, you are making yourself look worse and worse just be done with it!!

You cant "stump" me or make me "see the light" or what ever hahahahaha you think your trying to do......seriously leave it alone, I am sick of you, you're like a hemroid (sp?), you wont go away and you're a pain in the "BUTT"!!!!

I have a limited time I can spend on GON per day ( sometimes none!), as I have an extremely busy schedule, I would like to go back to spending that time talking about Killing deer, not arguing with some bone head that cant get it about GM!!!!   GET OVER IT!!!!


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 28, 2010)

Seriously......we are now on the 5th page!!!!


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 28, 2010)

GM still sucks, buddy of mine is buyin another 1 with 40k on it and already puttin a cat on it, i mean really whats the deal, do you gm lovers just love abuse? Ill stick with my 93 f150 and my 05 4runner.


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## tcward (Apr 28, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> WELL THERES THE PROBLEM!!!!!
> 
> 
> Fox news is a joke.....
> ...



OBVIOUS Obama supporter........


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## DBM78 (Apr 28, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Question #1  You obviously don’t understand how business's show money, I am by all means no finacial expert but how could they show a profit if they owned money??
> 
> Making money and showing  a profit on the books is two different things, do you understand that concept?
> 
> ...



Hey genius the 4th quarter ended at the end of 2009 GM just made its "payment" this month these are the numbers they put out and are not made up. Wait till the next figures come out. Early reports from this quarter show them down from 2009 figures. GM still in the red since 2004 you can't argue anything with those results.

My point with GM is they should have not ever of taken any Gov money. Look at Ford and what they did. They didn't get any Goverment cheese. They told their workers/unions your going to have to give up somethings or you will not get anything as far as work/jobs, healthcare and retirement benefits. Ford flat out told the unions you are going to work with us or we will close down your plant. GM could of done all of this on their own if they would of stood up to the UAW. Ford makes good cars and had the forsight to see what was ahead of them. GM stood there with their handout to the Gov. GM could of filed bankruptcy on their own and dealt with the UAW on their terms not the other way around they didn't need the 52 billion to do that.


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## DBM78 (Apr 28, 2010)

General Motors loses $3.4 billion
By Chris Isidore, senior writerApril 7, 2010: 4:15 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors reported $3.4 billion loss in the fourth quarter of 2009, but is on track to possibly return to profitability in 2010, the company said Wednesday.

Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell, who joined the company earlier this year, stopped short of forecasting a profit this year, but said that results in the recently-completed first quarter, which will be reported in May, and the outlook for sales the rest of the year gives the company hope that it is close to returning to the black for the first time since early 2007.

Facebook Digg Twitter Buzz Up! Email Print Comment on this story

He points out that much of the fourth-quarter loss was due to one-time items, such as a $2.6 billion settlement loss related to the UAW retiree medical plan. Without those one-time items, the loss would have been closer to $600 million in the quarter.

"The underlying profitability is not as bad as it would seem," he said. "We don't need to make that much of an improvement to get to profitability."

Still, even without those one-time items, the results at GM were far worse than rivals Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Toyota Motor (TM), which both reported profits in the period due to the improving auto sales.


0:00 /4:19GM betting on the Volt
Mike Boudreau, a director at Michigan-based turnaround firm O'Keefe & Associates, said though the loss might seem disappointing, he chalks it up to closing the books on a very difficult year of transition.

"I'm not too focused on 2009; even if they had posted a profit in the quarter, I don't know if it would have meant much," he said. 

He agreed with Liddell's assessment that making money at some point in 2010 should be in reach.

"They're going to get a lift from the improvement in the U.S. economy," he said. "I don't know if they'll make money for the entire year, but I think they'll be able to break through and turn a profit for at least a couple of quarters."

The fourth-quarter loss came despite a 15% jump in the number of vehicles sold in the quarter compared to a year earlier, and a 10% cut in the number of worldwide employees. The improved sales and lower labor costs allowed it to trim its losses, though. In the fourth quarter of 2008, the pre-bankruptcy GM lost $9.6 billion.

Technically, GM's financial results were not comparable to earlier periods as they were reported under what is known as "fresh start accounting" associated with the company emerging from bankruptcy in July of last year.

The accounting process is seen as an important first step to GM's plans to put its bankruptcy behind it and once again offer shares to the public. Taxpayers own about a 60% stake in GM and will not be able to get back most of the $50 billion given to the company to see it through bankruptcy until that sale of shares.

Liddell said that a return to profitability will be the key to the timing of GM offering shares to the public. Boudreau estimated GM will probably need at least two or three profitable quarters in a row before its IPO.

"They have a shot at at doing it by the end of the year," he said.

Most of the losses continued to be concentrated in GM's home North American market, where it rang up $3.4 billion of losses, while GM Europe lost $814 million in the period. But European losses were largely offset by a $738 million profit from GM International, which represents its operations outside of North America and Europe. That led to a wordwide total loss of about $3.4 billion. 

Driven by strong sales gains in China, GM International sold almost as many cars as GM North America and Europe combined during the quarter


It all comes back to the UAW and GM failure. OH and THWACK this article is from your news "outlet" CNN.


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## DBM78 (Apr 28, 2010)

tcward said:


> obvious obama supporter........



 You just now figured that out.


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 29, 2010)

DBM,  you are seriously worse than trying to reason with my 3 year old......

OK so you dont think GM should have gotten the money......GREAT........OK !!!!   SO what!?!?!?   

Everyone knows that you dont agree with Gm and you wish they would shut the doors!!!!    

I dont care what you think about GM anymore, you are a nobody to me!!!!

Your thoughts and feelings thankfully wont change a single thing about GM's future!!!!  We will see what happens in the months to come...

SO JUST SHUT UP AND LEAVE IT ALONE for the 3rd or 4th time!!! This is getting stupid, I am sick of arguing with you!!!!!!     

WE FREAKIN DISAGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    GROW UP AND LEAVE IT AT THAT!!!!!!!


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## 93f1fiddy (Apr 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> DBM,  you are seriously worse than trying to reason with my 3 year old......
> 
> OK so you dont think GM should have gotten the money......GREAT........OK !!!!   SO what!?!?!?
> 
> ...



So you givin up!! I would too if i was a gm fan!!


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## MonroeTaco (Apr 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> DBM,  you are seriously worse than trying to reason with my 3 year old......
> 
> OK so you dont think GM should have gotten the money......GREAT........OK !!!!   SO what!?!?!?
> 
> ...



If you're tired of arguing, why do you keep responding?


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## DBM78 (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey THWACK the difference between your opinion and mine is mine is right.  And it is my opinion that I'm entitled to and backed up by facts. See you later. I won't forget about this thread and will bring it up next time GM is in the news or you come on here just pointing out the bright spots of Gov Motors.


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## Mako22 (Apr 30, 2010)

I've created a monster thread


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## THWACKG5 (Apr 30, 2010)

Woodsman69 said:


> I've created a monster thread



 HAHAHAHAHA LOL     Yup you sure have!!!!      

    It was fun fella's    


Im sure we'll pick er back up sooner or later, but for now she just needed a rest.... 



Hey DBM, we should go fishin together sometime!!!!  

Or maybe we should have a "Everything Chevy stinks" thread dinner!!!!!  You know so we can all "shake each others hand"!!!


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## DBM78 (Apr 30, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> HAHAHAHAHA LOL     Yup you sure have!!!!
> 
> It was fun fella's
> 
> ...



Sounds good I'm not too far from you living in Dallas. I agree we sound give it a rest for a little while.


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## Tulip (May 1, 2010)

I dont think everything Chevy makes stinks BUT I am having problems with a 2002 2500HD Duramax. Had to replace the front hubs at 80000 miles cause some engineer decided that sealed bearings are alot better than the old kind that you could take apart and grease. Cost around $400 for the both hub assemblys cause the bearings are pressed in. Whoever came up with the idea to have sealed bearings on a 4wd? Latest issue is with 5 out of 8 injectors bad and my truck only has 120000 miles on it. It is over 7 years old so the warrenty is expired. Warrenty is 7 years or 200000 miles so no go on warrenty work. Dealer wanted $6000 to replace all 8. Yea thats $6000. Seems like you have to tear down the engine to the valve covers to replace any injector so once you are in might as well replace all 4. Truck is sitting in driveway till I can get some money to by injectors and do myself. What good is a diesel if ya have to replace injectors every 100000 miles? Another friend of mine has a 02 with the same problems and guess what his truck is to old to be covered for warrenty work also. I bought this truck because I have owned 3 suburbans still own 1 and have never had any major problems with them. I also like the allison transmission. I really liked the dodge cummins 5.9l but didnt like anything else about the dodge. So I decided to go with the chevy. Wish I hadnt done that now. I should have bought and old ford 7.3l. I just want everyone to know to stay away from 01-04 chevy duramax engines (lb7) because of the injector problems. Seems like the newer models arent as bad.


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## Mako22 (May 1, 2010)

Tulip said:


> I dont think everything Chevy makes stinks BUT I am having problems with a 2002 2500HD Duramax. Had to replace the front hubs at 80000 miles cause some engineer decided that sealed bearings are alot better than the old kind that you could take apart and grease. Cost around $400 for the both hub assemblys cause the bearings are pressed in. Whoever came up with the idea to have sealed bearings on a 4wd? Latest issue is with 5 out of 8 injectors bad and my truck only has 120000 miles on it. It is over 7 years old so the warrenty is expired. Warrenty is 7 years or 200000 miles so no go on warrenty work. Dealer wanted $6000 to replace all 8. Yea thats $6000. Seems like you have to tear down the engine to the valve covers to replace any injector so once you are in might as well replace all 4. Truck is sitting in driveway till I can get some money to by injectors and do myself. What good is a diesel if ya have to replace injectors every 100000 miles? Another friend of mine has a 02 with the same problems and guess what his truck is to old to be covered for warrenty work also. I bought this truck because I have owned 3 suburbans still own 1 and have never had any major problems with them. I also like the allison transmission. I really liked the dodge cummins 5.9l but didnt like anything else about the dodge. So I decided to go with the chevy. Wish I hadnt done that now. I should have bought and old ford 7.3l. I just want everyone to know to stay away from 01-04 chevy duramax engines (lb7) because of the injector problems. Seems like the newer models arent as bad.



IT"S ALIVE!!!!!!


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## contender* (May 1, 2010)

Tulip said:


> I dont think everything Chevy makes stinks BUT I am having problems with a 2002 2500HD Duramax. Had to replace the front hubs at 80000 miles cause some engineer decided that sealed bearings are alot better than the old kind that you could take apart and grease. Cost around $400 for the both hub assemblys cause the bearings are pressed in. Whoever came up with the idea to have sealed bearings on a 4wd?



Same hub problem here but just had to replace one so far. I keep checking the other one every so often. It was kinda dumb to do the hubs like that. I think these auto manufacturers have decided the can make plenty of money of parts and maintenance so they can give "discounts" on the new vehicles. This goes for all of them, not just Chevy.


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## THWACKG5 (May 4, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Sounds good I'm not too far from you living in Dallas. I agree we sound give it a rest for a little while.



Actually I have been golfing more lately than fishing.........you golf???


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## little rascal (May 5, 2010)

*I have never*

owned anything but Chevy, however I am dissapointed that they sold out ,we will pay for that one way or another or already have. I have had the failed injectors, two hub/bearing assemblies, both side upper and lower ball joints, an un-believable $600.00 waterpump(because they had to take the whole front end off to work on it, "nice engineering there Chevy?!!
  I am not sure I would buy another Chevy Truck unless they spent some of that Cheese on some better engineering, or at least an affordable design that person could afford to have fixed. 
 I am proud of Ford for standing alone, and would probably buy one today if I had the money.


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## DBM78 (May 5, 2010)

THWACKG5 said:


> Actually I have been golfing more lately than fishing.........you golf???



Yeah I've played golf for a while. I played golf in High School but right now I'm not getting to much free time I got a 3 week old to keep me busy.


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## unclejunbug (May 5, 2010)

Please excuse me if I repeat someone but I didnt read all 5 page. I have seen chevy, ford, and Toyota go lots of miles. My dad has a hilux that has a million miles on it with original motor and not many replaced parts. Do hate the fact of buying foreign but maybe the competition will help domestic cars and trucks to get better. Maybe when Chevy and Ford can make a product and offer a lifetime powertrain warranty they will get there customers back. Diehard ford or chevy when it comes to spending money  for repairs that makes a difference. I have noticed vehicles are becoming more exspensive and less mechanical. Are becoming all about options instead of making a long lasting product. My opinion toyota deserves what they get. Ever heard of if its not broke dont fix it. What was wrong with a cable driven throttle body? But on a good note im glad to see all those Moms, Dads, Sons, Daughters, Grandmas, Grandpas, Aunts, and Uncles at GM who are still there have a job. Incase it sounds like im foreign biased I have 2 fords, 1 pontiac, and a nissan.


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## THWACKG5 (May 6, 2010)

DBM78 said:


> Yeah I've played golf for a while. I played golf in High School but right now I'm not getting to much free time I got a 3 week old to keep me busy.



Oh cool, congrats, thats great!!! 

I completely understand that man!!! I have a 3 year old son and a 7 month old daughter!!!  

Its tuf trying to do all the things you've always been used to doing and be a good family man at the same time!! Its all good though, id rather be a good daddy than a good fisherman or hunter or golfer!!

Just wait until the second one comes along!!


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## 93f1fiddy (May 11, 2010)

Lets get back on track here, CHEVY STINKS!!!!!


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## Mako22 (May 11, 2010)

93f1fiddy said:


> Lets get back on track here, CHEVY STINKS!!!!!



That's what I keep saying but ain't nobody listening!


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## Laneybird (May 11, 2010)

Had a tune up done on a 99 Tahoe. Misfiring and scope said misfire on #2 cyl. Mechanic said I had to replace all 8 injectors. I told him you could get a single injector from a local auto parts store. He said, no you can't, you have to buy all 8.  All 8 was $400.00 and a single was $65.00.  Asked what I owed him. Payed the bill and drove it home. Sat, I replaced a single injector myself!  $65.00


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## david w. (May 11, 2010)

I seen a Chevy today with a i love obama sticker on it.

Lets just say i used my free right of speech.


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## olchevy (May 11, 2010)

david13 said:


> I seen a Chevy today with a i love obama sticker on it.
> 
> Lets just say i used my free right of speech.



That was rare! you should of took a picture! Everyone knows all them Obama supporters drive fords, cause well its like my dad used to say they can get you in a ford real cheap, because they know you'll be needing another one before long.....and the horrible cycle continues...lol.....


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## david w. (May 11, 2010)

olchevy said:


> That was rare! you should of took a picture! Everyone knows all them Obama supporters drive fords, cause well its like my dad used to say they can get you in a ford real cheap, because they know you'll be needing another one before long.....and the horrible cycle continues...lol.....



Maybe Chevy needs to do that too,so they want need the government to stay in business.


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## bunny chaser (Jun 1, 2010)

lota talk about buy american? LOOK AT ALL THE ELECTRONICS AROUND YOUR HOUSE,and where your computer your on now is from,your rifle scopes,rangefinders and how bout all our everyday purchases thats made or bought over seas or Mexican and canada neighbors . i own 3 chevys and will change to another manufacture nxt go round oh yea go look in your barn,garage etc and check to see who makes your atv and at least the overseas companys are allowing americans to at least build some here and not sending them mexico or elsewhere the wages are cheaper.alot of people here making good noise about buy and keep americans but we have done let that get outa hand and got a president that dont even care about americans. just something to think about


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## bunny chaser (Jun 1, 2010)

Gm keeps insisting that they are heading in the right direction but i am not seeing it,i travel interstate 75 and 24 daily and see alot more brand new fords and toyota trks and nissan toyota honda cars ? and everyone cracking on obama well where were they at election time,my family has always been a chevy family and i cut my teeth on a chevy steering wheel but that was when gm stood for something now i guess i am going to be the black sheep and step outside the box,they cant build em like there competition,manage the monies or tha business. if they would put spinners on the lincoln maybe a 20in base spkr obama would reconsider ford for tha adminstrations limo. or perhaps sell his cut of gm to ford or toyota.i have to sons in the military on active duty one marine and one in the army they were ashamed that there comander in chief failed to present the services to the unknown solider what a disgrace to our young men and women serving this once great nation.want nothing that man or adminstration has to offer including his insurance plan if our illegal imigrants can go to county hospital so can i


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## ABAChunter (Jun 2, 2010)

I own a chevy love it. Wouldnt buy a new one after what gm went through. Ford is a smarter and more efficient company but they both make good trucks. My next truck will be ford. Also heres somethan to look at. chevy trucks hitting a million miles.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mans-chevy-1200-miles-from-million-mile-mark.html 

http://www.knfilters.com/news//news.aspx?ID=157


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## bunny chaser (Jun 2, 2010)

abac hunter, I agree had no problems with gm till they let obama in the door,he is not bailing them out - we tax payers are and i cant see gm ever paying us as americans back and with america already in the hole i think we could have used the gm bail out elsewhere heck i would have rather see that billons split up between our men and women and their familys serving this country than give it to a company that has mis managed their money for last half decade no one is bailing those familys that are loosing all they have worked for. its no wonder gm doesnt want to fix or stand behind their automobiles they cant afford to and the parts and labor rates are going to increase they have to make it up somewhere. so i done with them and going to put my chevys on tha used side of a ford dealership parking lot and give them f-250s some road time, and yeah i think the once great gm now stinks and i hate obamas change


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## ABAChunter (Jun 3, 2010)

bunny chaser said:


> abac hunter, I agree had no problems with gm till they let obama in the door,he is not bailing them out - we tax payers are and i cant see gm ever paying us as americans back and with america already in the hole i think we could have used the gm bail out elsewhere heck i would have rather see that billons split up between our men and women and their familys serving this country than give it to a company that has mis managed their money for last half decade no one is bailing those familys that are loosing all they have worked for. its no wonder gm doesnt want to fix or stand behind their automobiles they cant afford to and the parts and labor rates are going to increase they have to make it up somewhere. so i done with them and going to put my chevys on tha used side of a ford dealership parking lot and give them f-250s some road time, and yeah i think the once great gm now stinks and i hate obamas change



Well said! that money could of gone to alot of better things if GM was smarter and our government didnt spend money trying to get their heads out of water.


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