# help picking a breed of dog



## holler tree (Nov 25, 2012)

ok ive been kicking the idea around for a while now about getting a pup to train and im almost there but just cant make my mind up on the breed i want to go with. so what say you and why ? thanks.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 25, 2012)

black lab of the best breeding you can afford.


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## Tag-a-long (Nov 25, 2012)

holler tree said:


> ok ive been kicking the idea around for a while now about getting a pup to train and im almost there but just cant make my mind up on the breed i want to go with. so what say you and why ? thanks.



What is it you wanna train it to do?? And do you have any experience training that subject matter?   Since we're in the waterfowl forum, retrieving is probably a good guess.  If so, I couldn't agree more with the advice TurkeyTrax gave you.  There are other breeds that can definitely do the work ... but a lab is built for it.  Other breeds can be trained but sometimes they require a little more finesse.  A well bred lab is often easier for a novice trainer just learning the ropes.

If you should settle on another breed ... the part about buying the best you can afford still applies.  

Blythe is kinda in my neck of the woods.  Once you get the dog (or even before if you just want to see what it's all about) let me know, I can hook you up with a training club not far from you.


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## SMASHINFOWL (Nov 25, 2012)

Man....go with a lab..any color


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## thompsonsz71 (Nov 25, 2012)

im pickin my boykin up in the spring!


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## ThunderRoad (Nov 25, 2012)

Black dog...


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## Joe Overby (Nov 25, 2012)

Somebody asked me a while back why I liked chocolate labs...I responded..."I didn't know they came in any other color".....


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 25, 2012)

Lab


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## Droptine88 (Nov 25, 2012)

Yep


a Lab is the best choice...

and of course Chocolate is the best color!


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 25, 2012)

Labs are great dogs, but I would HIGHLY recommend a Boykin. Every person I know who has one claim they are the best dogs in the world, including me. I have had 3 labs, they are too friendly (not loyal to me) and too big for my needs. I promise, if you go with a reputable Boykin breeder you will not regret it. Also, training mine was very easy, no E-collar necessary.  
                Good luck!


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## ngaduck (Nov 25, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> Labs are great dogs, but I would HIGHLY recommend a Boykin. Every person I know who has one claim they are the best dogs in the world, including me. I have had 3 labs, they are too friendly (not loyal to me) and too big for my needs. I promise, if you go with a reputable Boykin breeder you will not regret it. Also, training mine was very easy, no E-collar necessary.
> Good luck!



For the same money that you can spend on a well bred boykin, you can get a FC/AFC sired lab. As much as boykin guys hate to admit it, they are a hot fad right now. I have only seen a handful of boykins that impressed me. One is owned by one of the guys that suggested a lab on this thread. As for the ease of training, that is all dependent on the individual dog as with any breed. I have never thought to myself, "man, a boykin would have made this hunt so much better."


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 25, 2012)

It's all personal opinion and preference. Just what you want out of your dog. I imagine that Nagaduck has not owned a Boykin or he wouldn't say that. And I don't call having my male Boykin for 7 years now and a female for 2 a "fad". There is a reason they are gaining popularity.  Also, I have seen WAY more disappointing labs than Boykins...but then again there are more Lab owners out there than Boykins. It's as simple as this, a dog's behavior is a product of his trainer, no matter the breed, but his character and temperament are, I think, breed dependent.  At least that's what I believe, not saying I'm right.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 25, 2012)

they all have their problems. 

not gonna get into a argument with any boykin owners on the issues they have though. (and i have 3 boykins in my house right now and one in my lap as I type this) So I'm not anti boykin.

if you're looking at getting a boykin, pm me and i can tell you what ive found in issues with getting on through to transition and then advanced work. Can they do it? Sure...they're dogs out there doing it, and doing it well (heck a member here has the hottest boykin in the world right now)-- though we PLAN on being that next dog Dan . But for every 1 boykin that looks good and does the work in Hunt Tests there are a 100 labs doing it.


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## Gadestroyer74 (Nov 25, 2012)

Chocolate lab best dog I ever owned second for me is gsp


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## labradoodle (Nov 25, 2012)

screen name


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## ngaduck (Nov 25, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> It's all personal opinion and preference. Just what you want out of your dog. I imagine that Nagaduck has not owned a Boykin or he wouldn't say that. And I don't call having my male Boykin for 7 years now and a female for 2 a "fad". There is a reason they are gaining popularity.  Also, I have seen WAY more disappointing labs than Boykins...but then again there are more Lab owners out there than Boykins. It's as simple as this, a dog's behavior is a product of his trainer, no matter the breed, but his character and temperament are, I think, breed dependent.  At least that's what I believe, not saying I'm right.



You're right, I have not nor will I ever own a boykin. You're also right about there being more labs which leads to poor breeding. I will give it to the boykin people for preventing this through the BSS standards. I hate seeing all the labs being bred just because they are "great hunters" or have big heads. Certain breeds do have certain tendencies, but each dog is an individual and should be trained that way.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 25, 2012)

why so angry Piggy?


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## Tag-a-long (Nov 25, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> why so angry Piggy?



Boykin envy???


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 26, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> black lab of the best breeding you can afford.


I can't disagree with this advice!!


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## jsav (Nov 26, 2012)

i would have to agree with the boykin I also own two labs and the boykin runs circles around them. But I also have to agree with its what you put into them. I did a 90 yrd force to pile saturday with my boykin with some ducks we killed that morning and she went straight there are straight back.


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## king killer delete (Nov 26, 2012)

Alright.Boykins are nice dogs and good working dogs. The Lab has been doing it longer. Goldens are good dogs, Chessys are good dogs Flat coats are great to. But you best chance to get a good dog is to go with is the Lab. I have hunted for allot longer than most. 51 years of waterfowling. The first duck hunt I went on in 1961 there was a black lab that picked up our birds and he was a great dog. I have hunted in places that are tuff. Tide water and salt water are the worst. The lab is the way to go. Later when you with time you may choose another but your greatest chance of geting a good hunting dog the firt retreiver you own is with the Lab.


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## acemedic1 (Nov 26, 2012)

I dont have any experience to bring to the table, but a 35yr plus pro told me at a hunt test told me this when I asked that same question....a dog is a dog, you get what you put in, and there is a very good reason behind you not seeing many fuzzy breeds at the finish lines....I chose a lab because of this and thats after hunting over a golden most of my life.  Either way show us pics when you decide!!!


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## MudDucker (Nov 26, 2012)

If you can stand a big dog, go with a lab.  If you like a smaller dog with tons of drive, go with a Boykin.  Your opinion may vary.


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## king killer delete (Nov 26, 2012)

*Compare the stats*



acemedic1 said:


> I dont have any experience to bring to the table, but a 35yr plus pro told me at a hunt test told me this when I asked that same question....a dog is a dog, you get what you put in, and there is a very good reason behind you not seeing many fuzzy breeds at the finish lines....I chose a lab because of this and thats after hunting over a golden most of my life.  Either way show us pics when you decide!!!


 Allot more NFC/NAFC/ FC/AFC/ Master Hunters AKC/UKC Are labs. Your first dog go with the ones that Are on top. You wana hunt Beaver ponds and dove Flds. Boykins are ok. You wana hunt sounds and salt water bays go with the lab. Its all about choice but look at the History and the stats. Not all dogs are the same and not all labs are the same. Some kids do well in school and some dont . You get what you put into any dog you own. But not all are the same. It all depends on what you hunt and how you hunt. Some places its good to leave your dog at the house and take a dip net.


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## injun joe (Nov 26, 2012)

Chessies have more entertainment value.


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## FOD (Nov 26, 2012)

Boykin,I wasn't aware that there were any other breed of dog.


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## Skyjacker (Nov 26, 2012)

Any colored lab from a quality breeder.  Look up Ashland Kennels.  She's got great dogs and knows what to breed for.


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## holler tree (Nov 26, 2012)

Guys i really appreciate all the info ive trained coon hounds my whole life so i know how much time goes into training a dog just on the fence with what breed to go with good stuff keep it coming any body got local videos


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## duckyaker90 (Nov 26, 2012)

How well do Boykins do in open water lets say a lake


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## ryano (Nov 26, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> It's all personal opinion and preference..



Yeah. Just like guns, trucks, boats or anything else, people tend to recommend what THEY own. 

I am surprised to see Turkey Trax go with Lab recommendation though. I think maybe his little black wild child is making him see the light


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## bkl021475 (Nov 26, 2012)

The only thing that I've seen my Boykin do better than labs is run all afternoon on opening day dove season. Three other labs on the field that day and all were wipped early. But that doesn't mean that any lab can't do that, conditioning plays alot into it for that kind of heat.


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## Skyjacker (Nov 26, 2012)

I have no problems with Boykins.  I've seen some great ones and I've seen some ok ones.  Problem for me is that where I hunt, the chances of them being gator bait is a lot higher than a lab.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 26, 2012)

Skyjacker said:


> Problem for me is that where I hunt, the chances of them being gator bait is a lot higher than a lab.



i have both...

don't know of any labs that would be any less gator bait than a boykin though.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 26, 2012)

These are just a couple of training videos from this past summer.  Should be some Force to Pile and some marking with dogs of all levels...hope this is what you were looking for.

http://youtu.be/m9xHIkC5eWg

http://youtu.be/ADQhOo3jqH8

http://youtu.be/HCQ_FbdCm7M

http://youtu.be/9tInM57km4c

http://youtu.be/rNoc0nrMMF4

http://youtu.be/stfzgqGk9WE

http://youtu.be/-8JQ6U9G0QQ


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## Joe Overby (Nov 26, 2012)

one more i forgot...

http://youtu.be/xslB-7pSVzo


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## Joe Overby (Nov 26, 2012)

I think this is the last one I have...

http://youtu.be/Sxd_6OLobic


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## puddlehunter (Nov 26, 2012)

If you have trained hounds you would like a Chessie, plus they double as a great watch dog


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 26, 2012)

Joe, tell Kirk to come out next time the Possom is there so he can get some training video so this guy can make a educated decision....


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## holler tree (Nov 26, 2012)

joe thanks for those videos man youve really got it going on over there.


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## willholl79 (Nov 26, 2012)

Lab, the blacker the better!

PM sent.


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## quackertackr (Nov 26, 2012)

Had good labs growing up but picked up my first boykin today. Wish me luck.


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## BenelliBoy75 (Nov 26, 2012)

Joe Overby said:


> Somebody asked me a while back why I liked chocolate labs...I responded..."I didn't know they came in any other color".....




YOU would say that Joe. lol

If you trace back history you will find that labs started as BLACK. 
But I'm prejudice.


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 26, 2012)

ryano said:


> Yeah. Just like guns, trucks, boats or anything else, people tend to recommend what THEY own.
> 
> I am surprised to see Turkey Trax go with Lab recommendation though. I think maybe his little black wild child is making him see the light


I'm still catching the devil for not letting Tag bring that wild child home!!

That one is a firecracker!!


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 26, 2012)

ITs not so much as "seeing the light" with a lab. I really do like the dog. (EVEN though it is a lab). She learns fast, makes good decisions, and is HECK on wheels fast. Good tough attitude and so far, pretty easy to train. I love my boykins. And will continue in my quest of winning the BSS National FT one day and taking one to the Grand. i'm a bit jaded cause i have a really nice boykin who does the work. Seen a LOT that couldn't/didn't. But seen some tards for labs too. You get OUT of your dog what you PUT into it. Most folks i see don't have the time to put into one what is required to get something special. I have worked my tail off to get my good boykin where it is. And the work/training never ends. You just have to continue to learn and grow as a team and have an end goal in mind. (just don't say- "I just want a good meat dog...."


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## Tag-a-long (Nov 26, 2012)

RUTTNBUCK said:


> I'm still catching the devil for not letting Tag bring that wild child home!!
> 
> That one is a firecracker!!



And I really WANTED her too!!    I'm not gonna let you forget that one any time soon.    Just think, you could have had a dog of your own to run while I'm running Mason!

I really do believe everything happens for a reason though so I must confess it was probably for the best.  I can barely afford tuition for the one I've got.  As nice as she's turning out, I'd just have wanted to educate her too.  I'd have had to take on a second job to pay for school and that really would have cut into my training time!   



Turkey Trax said:


> ITs not so much as "seeing the light" with a lab. I really do like the dog. (EVEN though it is a lab). She learns fast, makes good decisions, and is HECK on wheels fast. Good tough attitude and so far, pretty easy to train. I love my boykins. And will continue in my quest of winning the BSS National FT one day and taking one to the Grand. i'm a bit jaded cause i have a really nice boykin who does the work. Seen a LOT that couldn't/didn't. But seen some tards for labs too. You get OUT of your dog what you PUT into it. Most folks i see don't have the time to put into one what is required to get something special. I have worked my tail off to get my good boykin where it is. And the work/training never ends. You just have to continue to learn and grow as a team and have an end goal in mind. (just don't say- "I just want a good meat dog...."



For the most part this hits the nail on the head.  But no matter how much effort you put in, you still can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Choose a breed that that has characteristics suited to what you want to accomplish and then within the breed choose a pairing that is mosts likely to produce the results you're looking for.  

TT I'm looking forward to the day you run that grand ... hope I can be there to see it.


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## ThunderRoad (Nov 27, 2012)

FOD said:


> Boykin,I wasn't aware that there were any other breed of dog.



A great lab will outdo a great Boykin


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

outdo them at what?

do you have a great lab?


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

Now all this info. It aint just about a breed. Its about breeding and that is still not a proven thing. If you want a hunting dog and you got the money. Do not buy a puppy. You got to remember that allot of these folks that have posted are hunt test people. Nothing wrong with that. But it aint hunting. Training a puppy is work and allot of it. These hunt test folks did not get a good dog from a puppy with out a whole bunch of work. If you get puppy  it does not mean you will have a hunting dog. I will tell you if you have the money to buy a dog that has been trained you will see what you have before you get it. A puppy is a risk. If you have a good dog that you have trained and he is the best you have ever owned. Well trained great in the blind or the swamp. Looks like a picture and then he gets out of the kennel and goes and sits by the road a semi will blow by and suck the air out of his lungs. What ever you get you got to go way out of your way to protect it. I was at the ramp on the Savannah river the other day and some guy came out after duck hunting. Nice boat all the gear , new pick up, put this great looking choco lab in the back with out a dog box and drives away. The dog even had a vest on. But he could not put that dog in a kennel air. Made me mad.


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## ngaduck (Nov 27, 2012)

Most of us "hunt test folks" got into it because we hunt. If done right, the training is all the same no matter what you want out of the dog.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

well there's that....

Not much that a dog is going to come up to in a hunting situation that we don't train for in the hunt test game.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*Remember you do it cause you want a good dog.*



ngaduck said:


> Most of us "hunt test folks" got into it because we hunt. If done right, the training is all the same no matter what you want out of the dog.


 I did it because I was just like you, I wanted a good dog. But it aint the same. Remember I have run hunt test when they first started. I ran some of the first NAHRA hunt test under AKC rules. The UKC only started as they came along. FLD Trials and Hunt test are just that. They are great ways to make a good dog and since they came about duck dogs have improved 1000 percent.  But it aint huntin. Things that dogs  do not learn in training for hunt test. How to act in a boat under power. How to handle puff mud. What to do when he comes on a wild boar in a costal a marsh. Take my word for it. Its good training but it aint hunting.


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 27, 2012)

ThunderRoad said:


> A great lab will outdo a great Boykin





Turkey Trax said:


> outdo them at what?
> 
> do you have a great lab?



I'm sure you'd be willing to put your sissy eyed Boykin up against his great lab.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*No come hunting with me.*



nhancedsvt said:


> I'm sure you'd be willing to put your sissy eyed Boykin up against his great lab.


 Plenty of Blue Bills and Great Whites in the sounds right now. LOL/LOL/LOL/


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## ngaduck (Nov 27, 2012)

killer elite said:


> I did it because I was just like you, I wanted a good dog. But it aint the same. Remember I have run hunt test when they first started. I ran some of the first NAHRA hunt test under AKC rules. The UKC only started as they came along. FLD Trials and Hunt test are just that. They are great ways to make a good dog and since they came about duck dogs have improved 1000 percent.  But it aint huntin. Things that dogs  do not learn in training for hunt test. How to act in a boat under power. How to handle puff mud. What to do when he comes on a wild boar in a costal a marsh. Take my word for it. Its good training but it aint hunting.



Yes I remember, you invented hunt tests. But the training is the same. We train where we hunt. So mud, beaver huts, logs, lions, and tigers, and boars, if its there they've seen it. As for how to act in a boat, sit means sit no matter where they are. It all comes down to sound obedience.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

ngaduck said:


> Yes I remember, you invented hunt tests. But the training is the same. We train where we hunt. So mud, beaver huts, logs, lions, and tigers, and boars, if its there they've seen it. As for how to act in a boat, sit means sit no matter where they are. It all comes down to sound obedience.



the other day i was running a down the shore blind on the tech pond and a lion jumped from the creek and ran across the pond. I was quite pleased with our dogs response to the lion.


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## ngaduck (Nov 27, 2012)

Come on now. Be realistic. While hunting we're never gonna see a down the shore blind.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

well maybe i over did it a little with that.


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## ThunderRoad (Nov 27, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> outdo them at what?
> 
> do you have a great lab?



I do have a great lab. He does everything I could ever need when we hunt. Now you tell me this, why would you choose a great boykin over a great lab? It just doesnt make sense. I do not see any benefits in having a smaller dog that cant take the fridgid temps. Now I am not saying that your boykin cannot retrieve. What I am saying is why mess with a good thing....


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## ThunderRoad (Nov 27, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> well there's that....
> 
> Not much that a dog is going to come up to in a hunting situation that we don't train for in the hunt test game.



I've never been to or participated in a hunt test, but I have watched videos of em. There are major differences in my opinion. You do not have multiple ducks dropping into a spread, with multiple guns shooting, cripples doing there best to get away, its not half dark still like a morning hunt either. Plus it appears that most tests have easier terrain than the average hunt. If I am wrong, then please show me some video or pics of the actual setup. I'd really like to see the level of difficulty.


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## ryano (Nov 27, 2012)

I just want a good meat dog


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## Joe Overby (Nov 27, 2012)

killer elite said:


> I did it because I was just like you, I wanted a good dog. But it aint the same. Remember I have run hunt test when they first started. I ran some of the first NAHRA hunt test under AKC rules. The UKC only started as they came along. FLD Trials and Hunt test are just that. They are great ways to make a good dog and since they came about duck dogs have improved 1000 percent.  But it aint huntin. Things that dogs  do not learn in training for hunt test. How to act in a boat under power. How to handle puff mud. What to do when he comes on a wild boar in a costal a marsh. Take my word for it. Its good training but it aint hunting.



Actually Killer, the AKC followed the HRC.  The HRC followed NAHRA...regardless, testing makes better hunting dogs.  Yes, ALL dogs need some OJT but our "test dogs" are much better prepared to handle this than your average "meat dawg".


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## Joe Overby (Nov 27, 2012)

ThunderRoad said:


> I've never been to or participated in a hunt test, but I have watched videos of em. There are major differences in my opinion. You do not have multiple ducks dropping into a spread, with multiple guns shooting, cripples doing there best to get away, its not half dark still like a morning hunt either. Plus it appears that most tests have easier terrain than the average hunt. If I am wrong, then please show me some video or pics of the actual setup. I'd really like to see the level of difficulty.



Hey man where are you located???  I could do you one better and invite you to a training day with us and you could see first hand.  The next time my videographer is up i'll get him to film a finished test and i'll post it up here.  But, you are more than welcome to join us and enjoy a day of dogs and ducks...

BTW, i've never thought to myself "I wish I had a possum right now"...I much prefer a lab to any other breed.  But, I will give TT credit...he don't own an "average" boykin...

Seriously, you should come up and join us.  We have dogs at all levels and can set-up whatever blows your skirt up.  pm me or shoot me an email....actually, if you go to my website, there is a finished land test video'd on there.  Upper right hand corner under "Bailey passes..." check it out.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*You are  probably right because AKC was very slow to come to the table.*



Joe Overby said:


> Actually Killer, the AKC followed the HRC.  The HRC followed NAHRA...regardless, testing makes better hunting dogs.  Yes, ALL dogs need some OJT but our "test dogs" are much better prepared to handle this than your average "meat dawg".


 But at the time they were out west and everything that was happening in this part of the country was AKC at the time. I first read about the hunt test idea in wildfowl Mag on a bus in while I was staioned in Korea about 1983. I had been involved with several retreiver clubs before I was sent to Korea that year and in 1985 I was a a bird thrower at the 1985 NRC championship. The year Hugh Arthur won the national with a Georgia dog named Duke.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*What do you think about buying a trained dog over a pup?*



Joe Overby said:


> Hey man where are you located???  I could do you one better and invite you to a training day with us and you could see first hand.  The next time my videographer is up i'll get him to film a finished test and i'll post it up here.  But, you are more than welcome to join us and enjoy a day of dogs and ducks...
> 
> BTW, i've never thought to myself "I wish I had a possum right now"...I much prefer a lab to any other breed.  But, I will give TT credit...he don't own an "average" boykin...
> 
> Seriously, you should come up and join us.  We have dogs at all levels and can set-up whatever blows your skirt up.  pm me or shoot me an email....actually, if you go to my website, there is a finished land test video'd on there.  Upper right hand corner under "Bailey passes..." check it out.


 I know if I was going to go out a get a new dog to hunt with thats what I would do.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*Nothing wrong with a meat dog.*



ryano said:


> I just want a good meat dog


 It all depends on how much money you got to spend. If you have a dog of what ever breed and he does what you want thats great. Some folks have the time and the money to have more. I like to think that a guy that likes to hunt and may not have all the money in the world may have a puppy that could be a NFC and or a NAFC. Or a Master.


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## webfootwidowmaker (Nov 27, 2012)

Y is everyone getting so upset. I picked my lab out bc thats what I wanted. Same reason most of you picked what you wanted. If it picks up duck then who cares. Y cant we all just get along.


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## swamphunter188 (Nov 27, 2012)

i have one of each, have had boykin all my life can't go wrong with them.  in the past few years have gotten into labs hunt with mine all the time now if i were going to duck hunt all the time id go with a lab if i wanted a all around dog it'd b the boykin here in s ga a big lab will get hot on a good early season dove hunt also have a cross between the two excited to see how they turn out


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

ThunderRoad said:


> I do have a great lab. He does everything I could ever need when we hunt. Now you tell me this, why would you choose a great boykin over a great lab? It just doesnt make sense. I do not see any benefits in having a smaller dog that cant take the fridgid temps. Now I am not saying that your boykin cannot retrieve. What I am saying is why mess with a good thing....



I never said one was better than the other you did. I asked how one was better. like Joe said come on up and train in one of our hunt test set ups. Watch a boykin pick up a triple with 300 yard birds. Go thru thick timber/beaver swamp. And do whatever you ask it to do. I have both and love both. And we also didnt say hunt tests give you everything a hunt does. We say training for hunt tests better prepares a dog to hunt than most folks random training does. I guess the only thing u said they couldnt do was handle cold water.  not sure who told you that. Ive never had one that had an issue with cold water.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

And thunderroad, i didnt mean for that to sound as if it was a "challenge". lol. sorry if it came off like that. 

Just trying to clarify it. Until you see a lot of Finished HT set ups and see set ups like some of the old timers we train with set up, its hard to understand the depth and intensity of the work these dogs go through to do it. We've been tested at tests on some nasty terrain, thick cover, thick beaver ponds/swamps. Huge blow downs, inline marks. through old fall blinds. Poison birds. The list goes on and on. Its tough but its a blast. 
You're welcome anytime to come hang out with us and do it too. No more enjoyable way to spend the off season IMO.


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## king killer delete (Nov 27, 2012)

*I dont think its that way.*



webfootwidowmaker said:


> Y is everyone getting so upset. I picked my lab out bc thats what I wanted. Same reason most of you picked what you wanted. If it picks up duck then who cares. Y cant we all just get along.


 I almost got lynched at club trial back when we placed dogs in club trials. When I was a judge and the lone Boykin that was in the Master class beat all the labs that were in the same class that day. Thats like a meat dog and Fld trial dog. If your happy with your dog great. Let me go on the record Boykins are great dogs and so are the labs, goldens and chessys and yes I have seen one the best Flat coats there ever was. But every body can state what they want here . I have seen some folks pick at each other yes. But this has been  a civil debate. Its all about what you want and what you are willing to put your time and money into.  Good Luck top all.


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## Hairy Dawg (Nov 27, 2012)

ThunderRoad said:


> I do have a great lab. He does everything I could ever need when we hunt. Now you tell me this, why would you choose a great boykin over a great lab? It just doesnt make sense. I do not see any benefits in having a smaller dog that cant take the fridgid temps. Now I am not saying that your boykin cannot retrieve. What I am saying is why mess with a good thing....



You mean like this?


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 27, 2012)

But, but, but....they can't pick up geese though...


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## FalconsFan (Nov 27, 2012)

Anybody ever seen a drahthaar/gwp work ducks?


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## ngaduck (Nov 27, 2012)

FalconsFan said:


> Anybody ever seen a drahthaar/gwp work ducks?



This ventures into a whole other argument. Why have a pointer do retrieving work? Retrievers shouldn't be doing pointing work either.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

nhancedsvt said:


> But, but, but....they can't pick up geese though...



Whooooops


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## webfootwidowmaker (Nov 27, 2012)

that goose is bigger than that dog..lol cute


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 27, 2012)

swamphunter188 said:


> i have one of each, have had boykin all my life can't go wrong with them.  in the past few years have gotten into labs hunt with mine all the time now if i were going to duck hunt all the time id go with a lab if i wanted a all around dog it'd b the boykin here in s ga a big lab will get hot on a good early season dove hunt also have a cross between the two excited to see how they turn out



This cannot be more true. A lab is a great retriever, no doubt. That is why everyone uses them. But a Boykin can do just as good as labs in most everyday hunting situations. The benefit for me is they are the most laid back, loyal hunting breeds I have seen. Calm when you want it and hard working when you need it. Typically when I get out of my boat at the landing, labs are running wild with their owners screaming at them to come back, and man am I a proud owner with my boykin right beside me following every step or in the boat staying put with a simple "close" or "stay" command.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 27, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> This cannot be more true. A lab is a great retriever, no doubt. That is why everyone uses them. But a Boykin can do just as good as labs in most everyday hunting situations. The benefit for me is they are the most laid back, loyal hunting breeds I have seen. Calm when you want it and hard working when you need it. Typically when I get out of my boat at the landing, labs are running wild with their owners screaming at them to come back, and man am I a proud owner with my boykin right beside me following every step or in the boat staying put with a simple "close" or "stay" command.



IMO, this is a product of poor training and low standards...MY labs and those of my hunting buddies DO NOT run wild anywhere...till the birds hit the water....

Everyone stereotypes the dogs for their behavior...dogs are merely a product of their environment.  An ill-behaving dog is ill-behaving because he has been allowed to be...regardless of breed.  

The reason I recommend a lab is one word...versatility.  Labs are used for drug dogs, bomb dogs, waterfowl dogs, upland dogs, assistance dogs, seeing eye dogs, cadaver dogs, SAR dogs, and yes even couch potato dogs.  You see, a lab really doesn't care what his job is...just so long as he has one...and he will typically try and do his dead level best at whatever it is that is asked of him.  The reason labs are preferred over other breeds isn't that they're the best pointer, the best flusher, or the best plate licker...its that they WILL do all of the above...and do ALL of it pretty good...and enjoy it.  That and you don't have to worry about them attacking small children.  Phenomenal all-around dogs.  

Oh yeah...I almost forgot...and when your possum gets stuck in the mud, you can send a lab to retrieve the possum AND the duck at the same time...and he will do it...willingly and with a smile on his face!!


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## webfootwidowmaker (Nov 27, 2012)

Joe Overby said:


> IMO, this is a product of poor training and low standards...MY labs and those of my hunting buddies DO NOT run wild anywhere...till the birds hit the water....
> 
> Everyone stereotypes the dogs for their behavior...dogs are merely a product of their environment.  An ill-behaving dog is ill-behaving because he has been allowed to be...regardless of breed.
> 
> ...



sounds good, send it to the printers


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 27, 2012)

Joe Overby said:


> IMO, this is a product of poor training and low standards...MY labs and those of my hunting buddies DO NOT run wild anywhere...till the birds hit the water....
> 
> Everyone stereotypes the dogs for their behavior...dogs are merely a product of their environment.  An ill-behaving dog is ill-behaving because he has been allowed to be...regardless of breed.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Overby (Nov 27, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> Joe Overby said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, this is a product of poor training and low standards...MY labs and those of my hunting buddies DO NOT run wild anywhere...till the birds hit the water....
> ...


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 27, 2012)

Joe Overby said:


> bowhunter835 said:
> 
> 
> > I had something much longer typed up but for the sake of argument decided on this instead...I have never seen a Boykin without an e-collar.  You cannot compare the 2 breeds...its apples to oranges...
> ...


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## swamphunter188 (Nov 27, 2012)

my lab never leaves my side till i tell her my boykin on the other hand does not come out the box without a e collar


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

Joe. Possoms arent heavy enough to get stuck in the mud. 
I reference the middle water mark on day 2 at midlands. Loli think that one older guys black dog is still trying to get out of that mud hole.


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## Joe Overby (Nov 27, 2012)

Bwahahahahaha!!!


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## bowhunter835 (Nov 27, 2012)

swamphunter188 said:


> my lab never leaves my side till i tell her my boykin on the other hand does not come out the box without a e collar



Sorry you got a bad one... They're out there, just like any other.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 27, 2012)

bowhunter835 said:


> For example, you don't see many Boykins wearing E-Collars.



 you wont see mine without one cept on test day and oh how i wish i could have it on him at a hunt test. and im glad he wants the bird so bad that i need it. 


ok, back to the original poster and ill quit playing devils advocate to both sides.  I have trained both breeds and enjoy both but HONESTLY if i was telling a first time retriever owner/trainer id tell him this:

ive trained several boykins. I have a pretty good one i think (and he's a royal pain in the butt some days). I can generally tell what im getting out of him each day 2 minutes after getting him out of the truck. A LAB generally (i know not all the time) seems to learn easier when you're talking about really training a dog. I don't mean just getting a dog to the stage that it can pick up marks he sees, and if he don't see it you gotta throw rocks in the water towards the bird. I mean really making a finished hunting dog. It's JUST EASIER...trust me. 

Do your homework, buy the best black dog you can find and afford and find a local trainer close to you that KNOWS what he's doing hang out with him while your pup is real young and do what he tells you to do in the young pup stages. 

wait on the adult teeth to come in and PAY him to FF the dog and get him through basics and transition work.Spend as much time with him as he's training your dog as you can and let him train YOU as well. 

I spend a good bit of time training with Joe and one of the biggest mistakes i see guys make is sending their dog off, NOT going to watch and get help through the process and they take their dog home and he/she gets fat and lazy and generally digress...wasting your money and wasting a lot of time and work spent making your dog do the work.


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## RUTTNBUCK (Nov 27, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> you wont see mine without one cept on test day and oh how i wish i could have it on him at a hunt test. and im glad he wants the bird so bad that i need it.
> 
> 
> ok, back to the original poster and ill quit playing devils advocate to both sides.  I have trained both breeds and enjoy both but HONESTLY if i was telling a first time retriever owner/trainer id tell him this:
> ...


Good post!!


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## PintailM2 (Nov 28, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> you wont see mine without one cept on test day and oh how i wish i could have it on him at a hunt test. and im glad he wants the bird so bad that i need it.
> 
> 
> ok, back to the original poster and ill quit playing devils advocate to both sides.  I have trained both breeds and enjoy both but HONESTLY if i was telling a first time retriever owner/trainer id tell him this:
> ...




Guy wins a few pretty ribbons now he thinks he's an expert......


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 28, 2012)

I just sold ur boots.


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## PintailM2 (Nov 28, 2012)

Crap


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 28, 2012)

Dekes dekes dekes.


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 28, 2012)

That's neat.


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## ngaduck (Nov 28, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> I just sold ur boots.



They fit quite nice too.


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## fatboy84 (Nov 28, 2012)

nhancedsvt said:


> I'm sure you'd be willing to put your sissy eyed Boykin up against his great lab.



Drake is a pretty boy with pretty hair.   And one heck of a dog.


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## fatboy84 (Nov 28, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> I never said one was better than the other you did. I asked how one was better. like Joe said come on up and train in one of our hunt test set ups. Watch a boykin pick up a triple with 300 yard birds. Go thru thick timber/beaver swamp. And do whatever you ask it to do. I have both and love both. And we also didnt say hunt tests give you everything a hunt does. We say training for hunt tests better prepares a dog to hunt than most folks random training does. I guess the only thing u said they couldnt do was handle cold water.  not sure who told you that. Ive never had one that had an issue with cold water.



Well Cooper did get froze to the stand.


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 28, 2012)

Poor Cooper


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## fatboy84 (Nov 28, 2012)

nhancedsvt said:


> Poor Cooper



He has a nicer owner now.  He used to beg me to take him away from the mean man....Kinda like Daisy did.


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## fatboy84 (Nov 28, 2012)

Joe Overby said:


> These are just a couple of training videos from this past summer.  Should be some Force to Pile and some marking with dogs of all levels...hope this is what you were looking for.
> 
> http://youtu.be/m9xHIkC5eWg
> 
> ...



Joe,

You are never gonna hit those birds if you don't aim better.


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## Turkey Trax (Nov 28, 2012)

fatboy84 said:


> Drake is a pretty boy with pretty hair.   And one heck of a dog.



he's a jerk



fatboy84 said:


> Well Cooper did get froze to the stand.



but at least he was willing to rip the skin off his ear to pick up my mallard duck.



nhancedsvt said:


> Poor Cooper



yeah poor thing



fatboy84 said:


> He has a nicer owner now.  He used to beg me to take him away from the mean man....Kinda like Daisy did.



daisy loves me



fatboy84 said:


> Joe,
> 
> You are never gonna hit those birds if you don't aim better.



he killed them all and didn't even look down the barrel.


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## fatboy84 (Nov 28, 2012)

Turkey Trax said:


> he's a jerk
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  Cooper would go through anything to get a bird.


 @ Daisy loves me.   She aint real smart cause she does seem to really like you.


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 28, 2012)

fatboy84 said:


> Cooper would go through anything to get a bird.
> 
> 
> @ Daisy loves me.   She aint real smart cause she does seem to really like you.



Daisy likes everybody if you're feeding her


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## holler tree (Nov 28, 2012)

thanks guys for all the posts i have chosen to go with the lab and I will admit i can see now that i have alot of work cut out for me i am looking forward to it he will be a welcome addition to the family now to find a pup. any suggestions ????


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## ngaduck (Nov 28, 2012)

holler tree said:


> thanks guys for all the posts i have chosen to go with the lab and I will admit i can see now that i have alot of work cut out for me i am looking forward to it he will be a welcome addition to the family now to find a pup. any suggestions ????



Good luck with your pup. Look into one of the several training programs(Smartworks, Lardy's Total Retriever Training, Fowl Dawgs, etc). Find a pro close by and train with them as much as possible. A regular training group is also very helpful. 

But the million dollar question.....what color are you going with?


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 28, 2012)

holler tree said:


> thanks guys for all the posts i have chosen to go with the lab and I will admit i can see now that i have alot of work cut out for me i am looking forward to it he will be a welcome addition to the family now to find a pup. any suggestions ????



Look on RTF in the puppy classifieds. Find the best breeding you can afford.


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## ryano (Nov 29, 2012)

nhancedsvt said:


> . Find the best breeding you can afford.



Yah, like we did


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## nhancedsvt (Nov 29, 2012)

ryano said:


> Yah, like we did



Heck that was about all I could afford


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