# Closed Communion?????????



## pigpen1 (Jan 20, 2009)

Some Churches believe in closed communion, or in other words, they will not allow anyone who is not a member of ''their church'' to take communion with them, even the Pastor if he is not a member there....what is your thoughts????


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## JuliaH (Jan 20, 2009)

I belong to such a church.... but it is not my way... I think Christians should be very cautious about Communion, or the Lord's Supper, to not take it lightly, but I also am sure that membership in a church is not the criteria I take seriously. It is simply membership in God's family that is the criteria, as well as having a clean heart and mind when we go before the Lord in such a manner!

1 Corinthians 11: 
26 For every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are representing and signifying and proclaiming the fact of the Lord's death until He comes [again].

27 So then whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in a way that is unworthy [of Him] will be guilty of [profaning and sinning against] the body and blood of the Lord.

28 Let a man [thoroughly] examine himself, and [only when he has done] so should he eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discriminating and recognizing with due appreciation that [it is Christ's] body, eats and drinks a sentence (a verdict of judgment) upon himself.

30 That [careless and unworthy participation] is the reason many of you are weak and sickly, and quite enough of you have fallen into the sleep of death.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 20, 2009)

Yep. I agree that most churches do not take it serious enough but I do NOT believe in closed communion. If you are a baptized Christian you should be welcome to the table.

This is a good question. Very serious very in depth.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 20, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Some Churches believe in closed communion, or in other words, they will not allow anyone who is not a member of ''their church'' to take communion with them, even the Pastor if he is not a member there....what is your thoughts????




Open in MHO
 I have always thought  communion should be between that Christian and God. Or is it between "the church" and God?

If it is closed, is it because the "the church is acting as the keeper of keeping communion sacred and only open to those who they know are a member of there particular Church? 
Even then from my understanding you shouldn't even take communion if you are a Christian and your heart isn't right with God at that particular time in life.

These are just my thoughts and I will be honest and Say I haven't researched this in the scriture enough. I might be swayed by a scripture based argument, but I am fairly staunch in my opinion of an open communion.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 20, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> Open in MHO
> I have always thought  communion should be between that Christian and God. Or is it between "the church" and God?
> 
> If it is closed, is it because the "the church is acting as the keeper of keeping communion sacred and only open to those who they know are a member of there particular Church?
> ...



 I do not know how it is in other denominations, but in the Independent Baptist and Primitive Baptist churches there are some who hold this view..

  I know of one church where the Pastor is not allowed to take part in the communion because he is not a member of that assembly, they say it is a "church" ordinance, and he is not a member of that church...


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## Ronnie T (Jan 20, 2009)

For us, communion is open.
Primarily on Sunday morning, but also on Sunday evenings for those who may have been working that morning.
We partake of it each Lord's day.

Extra question:  How often do you have it scheduled?


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## celticfisherman (Jan 20, 2009)

Every sunday in my church. Personally I beleive it shoudl be available every day though. But at a minimum every time there is a service.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 20, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> For us, communion is open.
> Primarily on Sunday morning, but also on Sunday evenings for those who may have been working that morning.
> We partake of it each Lord's day.
> 
> Extra question:  How often do you have it scheduled?



  I personally do not like to have it every service, I was raised in the Church of Christ and the Christian Church and saw how it was taking very lightly, the people took it so much that it lost the importance or meaning to most of them. I saw people talking, laughing, and chewing gum while taking it.

  I like to have communion on the night before good Friday, I have reasons for this, 
 1. it is the example Christ gave,

2. it is the Lords "Supper" supper is in the evening as was the passover, which the Lords Supper took the place of, He is the Lamb that was sacrificed for It, 

3. on a thursday night you will have more of the people who are coming in the right mind for communion, on Sunday mornings you have people That will not dark-in the doors at any other time " Sunday morning christians"who will take it just because they are there and would never come any other time, it is not important enough to them.

 4. A service that is about nothing else except to focus on the Lords supper..Nothing else [except sometimes footwashing]

     This is the only scheduled communion that I like, we have communion at other times through the year, but not scheduled. I know some will disagree and say that the Disciples came together on the first day of the week to break bread, but that does not necessarily mean communion, the main thing is " as often as you do this do in remembrance of me"..


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## Banjo (Jan 21, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> For us, communion is open.
> Primarily on Sunday morning, but also on Sunday evenings for those who may have been working that morning.
> We partake of it each Lord's day.
> 
> Extra question:  How often do you have it scheduled?



We have the Lord's Supper every Sunday morning.  It is a means of grace...and I need all of that I can get.  The table belongs to the Lord, and is therefore open to all professing believers who have been baptized and are in good standing (not under discipline) with a bible-believing church.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Jan 21, 2009)

I never heard of it except on here.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I personally do not like to have it every service, I was raised in the Church of Christ and the Christian Church and saw how it was taking very lightly, the people took it so much that it lost the importance or meaning to most of them. I saw people talking, laughing, and chewing gum while taking it.
> 
> I like to have communion on the night before good Friday, I have reasons for this,
> 1. it is the example Christ gave,
> ...



I agree that some people take it for granted but that doesn't mean that you change what you do. You change the teaching of it to point out why it is important and you change the service to reflect it. Because right before "as often as you do this in remembrance of me" is "Every time you gather together" or different words depending on the translation...

Ronnie I thought the CofC was closed to other CofC members? All of my families churches were.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I agree that some people take it for granted but that doesn't mean that you change what you do. You change the teaching of it to point out why it is important and you change the service to reflect it. Because right before "as often as you do this in remembrance of me" is "Every time you gather together" or different words depending on the translation...
> 
> Ronnie I thought the CofC was closed to other CofC members? All of my families churches were.



 I do not use other translations except pre1611, and no place does it say to take the Lords Supper everytime you come together....


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## rjcruiser (Jan 21, 2009)

Hmmm...we kinda went through this discussion a bit with the church I'm at currently.  I'd never heard of closed-communion before that.  Needless to say, we are not a closed-communion church, except for the fact that it is only for believers.

I think that that is the piece that isn't stressed enough in churches today.  That if you are not a believer and you partake, the judgement you are bringing upon yourself.

As far as how often, I think it is more a preference issue and not a principal issue...as such, this is coming from the book of rjcruiser and has no spiritual authority whatsoever.  I think once a quarter is a good time frame.  That way, it is something special...not something every week.  I agree with Pigpen that when it is every week, it takes away from the significance of it.  Call that a fault of mankind, but the more you have of something, the less special it becomes.  

Plus, it takes up 15 minutes of the service.  That can turn into 45 minutes of extra waiting at the restaurant because you got out later than the other churches


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## JuliaH (Jan 21, 2009)

But it doesn't limit either, except to keep it Holy....





pigpen1 said:


> I do not use other translations except pre1611, and no place does it say to take the Lords Supper everytime you come together....


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## JuliaH (Jan 21, 2009)

If we are in God's house in a worship service, why worry about how long it takes, specially if we go to the table of the Lord!!

If we ARE believers and partake in an unworthy manner, and most of us have at one time or another... we bring judgement on ourselves probably as much or more than the unbeliever... since  the unbeliever probably hasn't got the training/teaching we do about it!



rjcruiser said:


> I think that that is the piece that isn't stressed enough in churches today. That if you are not a believer and you partake, the judgement you are bringing upon yourself.
> 
> the more you have of something, the less special it becomes.
> 
> Plus, it takes up 15 minutes of the service. That can turn into 45 minutes of extra waiting at the restaurant because you got out later than the other churches


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

Without going back to my marked up study bible and the different versions of the book of common prayer I'll use this.

1 Corinthians 11

 17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval. 20When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
 23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

 33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. 
      And when I come I will give further directions.

Paul is clearly talking about when they hold services. Food is our form of fellowship. also Jewish services always had a sacrifice too. We reenact that with the Lord's Supper.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I do not use other translations except pre1611, and no place does it say to take the Lords Supper everytime you come together....



Pre-1611? Why? 

I really am interested in hearing this. not to pick on you or start a fight but really why?


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## pigpen1 (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Pre-1611? Why?
> 
> I really am interested in hearing this. not to pick on you or start a fight but really why?



 many reasons, but one is the difference in formal and dynamic equivalency...[translating technique]


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> many reasons, but one is the difference in formal and dynamic equivalency...[translating technique]



But the bible you are using then was at best a 4th source translation. The NASV goes back to 1st and 2nd source. Why would you limit yourself.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 21, 2009)

JuliaH said:


> If we are in God's house in a worship service, why worry about how long it takes, specially if we go to the table of the Lord!!!



I know...I was just kidding around.  That is why I put the  after it.

However, I did visit one church that had communion every Sunday.  The service went 'till 12:45 or 1:00 every Sunday because of it.  Not saying that it was too long, but it was difficult with kids to go until 1 PM on Sunday.  IMHO, it would have be much better to start a bit earlier and end a bit earlier.  Again, preference not principal.  So, I'm not going to hold everyone to my perfect standard


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Every sunday in my church. Personally I beleive it shoudl be available every day though. But at a minimum every time there is a service.



We do too.

There is only one Church.Who am I or anyone else to exclude someone from the Lords supper.If they are not takeing it right it's between them and the Lord.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I agree that some people take it for granted but that doesn't mean that you change what you do. You change the teaching of it to point out why it is important and you change the service to reflect it. Because right before "as often as you do this in remembrance of me" is "Every time you gather together" or different words depending on the translation...
> 
> Ronnie I thought the CofC was closed to other CofC members? All of my families churches were.




I've never heard of it being closed.  That's a new one for me.  I would have to say that it isn't typical.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2009)

Once, when the apostle Paul was traveling doing his missionary work, he stopped by the church in Ephesus so that he could take communion.  For us, communion is open to any and all believers.
For us, it is the central reason that we are together on the Lord's day.
Quite often, the entire hour will be dedicated to the Lord's supper.  For me personally, it is one of the greatest moments in the life of a Christian.
At our church, people make EVERY effort to be able to be a part of the communion.  
Communion, or Lord's Supper, is our time of recognizing how unworthy we are for all the things God has lavished us with.  It is a time to remember and refocus on Jesus.  We do it, waiting for His return.  For us, being a part of it is very powerful.  
We welcome all Christians to share in it's blessings.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> But the bible you are using then was at best a 4th source translation. The NASV goes back to 1st and 2nd source. Why would you limit yourself.



I'm a NASB person also.  I've come to trust it.


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 21, 2009)

Our Church, Ella Grove Baptist, in Glennville GA, practices Closed Communion.

How does the local church know the status of the membership of someone that is not a member of that local church?

I would rather er on the side of caution and practice closed than to offer communion to a non-member(of the local church) and him/her not be in good standing with their church, or not even be baptized...

DB BB


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## Melissa (Jan 21, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Some Churches believe in closed communion, or in other words, they will not allow anyone who is not a member of ''their church'' to take communion with them, even the Pastor if he is not a member there....what is your thoughts????




We actually have opened communion at our church, but if we were such a church I believe I would have to find a new one. I believe, just as pastor does, that as long as a person is saved they should be allowed to partake in the communion regardless if you are a member or not.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 21, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> How does the local church know the status of the membership of someone that is not a member of that local church?



So is that the requirement your church has on taking communion?  They have to be a member?

I known plenty of members who aren't Christians.


Also, what about a missionary that your church supports.  They are on furlough and come by your church for a visit.  That Sunday is a communion Sunday.  Do you allow them to partake?


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 21, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> So is that the requirement your church has on taking communion? They have to be a member?
> 
> I known plenty of members who aren't Christians.
> 
> ...


 
I have never seen a missionary there during communion, but if they are not a member of the local church then they are not offered communion...

I classify a "member" as someone that has professed Salvation by Christ and have been Baptized... They are a member of that local church... no other church has them on their roster...

So RJ, I am sorry but if you visited the church and we happen to be having communion, we would not offer it to you... Please don't take offense, and this is explained to the congregation before we partake in communion... We as a church would not know if you were in good standing with your local church...

Our communion is held on Sunday nights, typically that is a time when visitors are not very promanent...

How would you feel if someone came to your church and yours just happen to be "open" and later you found out that they were not in good standing with their local church??

Communion is not to be taken lightly... and I have seen it taken really lightly in other churchs I have visited... and no I did not partake, because it was open, and it didn't feel right, with me being a visitor and all...

DB BB


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## rjcruiser (Jan 21, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I have never seen a missionary there during communion, but if they are not a member of the local church then they are not offered communion...
> 
> I classify a "member" as someone that has professed Salvation by Christ and have been Baptized... They are a member of that local church... no other church has them on their roster...
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be offended...when in Rome...do as the Romans

I just find it interesting how you stress "good standing with the local church."  Shouldn't the stress be on good standing with Jesus Christ?  

If someone came to my church and took communion, and they were in sin and shouldn't have partaken, I would not feel personally responsible.  Our pastor stresses the fact that if you are not a believer you are not to partake...if you are a believer, you need to make sure you don't have issues in your life.  Often, ours is on Sunday night as well and we are given time to prepare for it and encouraged to prepare for it Sunday afternoon.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2009)

I've just got to say that I am shocked that a church would not allowing a visiting christian participation in communion.


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 21, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> I've just got to say that I am shocked that a church would not allowing a visiting christian participation in communion.


 

Sorry to have shocked you...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 21, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I just find it interesting how you stress "good standing with the local church." Shouldn't the stress be on good standing with Jesus Christ?


 

We do that to... but that is only known by the believer... 

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 21, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> We do that to... but that is only known by the believer...
> 
> DB BB



 DB BB, what about the Pastor, can he partake with your Church if he is not a member there?


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> I've never heard of it being closed.  That's a new one for me.  I would have to say that it isn't typical.



We are talking about the Church of Christ that are completely independent of each other not the denomination right? Isn't there a denomination of the Church of Christ and then the independent ones as well? And by that I mean not a part of a district or for lack of a better term diocese?


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## celticfisherman (Jan 21, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Sorry to have shocked you...
> 
> DB BB



While not shocked. I would be turned off by that completely. I am all for church discipline but that is a very prejudicial stance IMO. That says you ASSUME that every visitor is not in good standing with their church and that is not even a requirement. It is to be in good standing with God. To do that you do have to be in good standing with your fellow believers.

 I could not support that stance at all.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 21, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> We are talking about the Church of Christ that are completely independent of each other not the denomination right? Isn't there a denomination of the Church of Christ and then the independent ones as well? And by that I mean not a part of a district or for lack of a better term diocese?



You're right.  Here at this congregation we don't strive to be like any other church except the 1st century church.  But, on the other hand, we don't spend time condemning other Christians.


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## fivesolas (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Some Churches believe in closed communion, or in other words, they will not allow anyone who is not a member of ''their church'' to take communion with them, even the Pastor if he is not a member there....what is your thoughts????



I think its wrong. But many godly men have practiced closed communion. We do not. The table represents the body and blood of Christ and all true born again Christians should be welcomed to it.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 22, 2009)

Melissa said:


> We actually have opened communion at our church, but if we were such a church I believe I would have to find a new one. I believe, just as pastor does, that as long as a person is saved they should be allowed to partake in the communion regardless if you are a member or not.



Agreed.


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## jawja_peach (Jan 22, 2009)

*What?*



Double Barrel BB said:


> I have never seen a missionary there during communion, but if they are not a member of the local church then they are not offered communion...
> 
> I classify a "member" as someone that has professed Salvation by Christ and have been Baptized... They are a member of that local church... no other church has them on their roster...
> 
> ...



Is this not judging? I mean, if the Pastor explains to the congregation what communion is all about, and that what can happen if they partake of it unworthy, meaning that they are not in good standings with GOD, THE CHURCH, GODS PEOPLE, not so much as a local assembly. I have been a member of a church, and had to leave as hubby was called to Pastor at a sister church (meaning of "like Denomonation"). So by your beliefs the church would NOT offer me or my hubby communion? So you're saying that your church and those like it, can put a man behind the pulpit to preach the 'truth'& 'Feed the Sheep' and most importantly preaching the scripture to those that are lost, that they may be Saved..but can not take communion?? I mean, surely before you put him behind the pulpit you check out his 'standings' in his home church and community. This is something that to me would upset me to say the least.
  We're in fellowship with God, but thought not by your beliefs?? Why else would you deny communion. Every man is to examine him self, not you or your church. It's this kinda of thing that keeps the Lost from getting saved. Man's rules and tradition. There are churches full of people that are going to die and bust H*** wide open because of man's tradition that he has no Bible to back it up. 
   Now, don't y'all come back and say that I'm saying 'your' church is going to H*** & mine isn't..(I know some of you would come back and say something like this) because I'm not. I'm saying that tradition has a place in the church, but not base all belief on it. Communion is a Sacred, Holy, thing between you and God. You can't see ones heart. I'm sure there are members of your church that take communion that are probably unworthy of it more than the visitor's you deny.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 22, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Once, when the apostle Paul was traveling doing his missionary work, he stopped by the church in Ephesus so that he could take communion.  For us, communion is open to any and all believers.
> For us, it is the central reason that we are together on the Lord's day.
> Quite often, the entire hour will be dedicated to the Lord's supper.  For me personally, it is one of the greatest moments in the life of a Christian.
> At our church, people make EVERY effort to be able to be a part of the communion.
> ...



You sure you ain't at least an Episcopal? I agree with that 100%. I do not like how Protestant churches switched the purpose of service from The Lord's Supper to hearing a Sermon. My pastor and I have had several long discussions about that one.


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> DB BB, what about the Pastor, can he partake with your Church if he is not a member there?


 
Our pastor is a member... always has been... more than likely always will be...

Never had an instance with a pastor not being a member...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> While not shocked. I would be turned off by that completely. I am all for church discipline but that is a very prejudicial stance IMO. That says you ASSUME that every visitor is not in good standing with their church and that is not even a requirement. It is to be in good standing with God. To do that you do have to be in good standing with your fellow believers.
> 
> I could not support that stance at all.


 

No, we don't assume anything... we as a church know who is in good standing within our congregation...

The requirements are that your heart be right, and that you are to have no disagreements or greivences with any brothers/sisters... If you are not in good standing with your church, then there is a problem, between you and your church, that should be fixed before you partake...

DB BB


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## celticfisherman (Jan 22, 2009)

But that is not your place to figure it out. 

And I believe what Pigpen was speaking to was a visiting pastor. But since there are no missionaries I am also assuming no visiting pastors either.

You can phrase that any way you would like. You cannot know another's heart and you are denying the purpose for us being together to begin with.


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Is this not judging? I mean, if the Pastor explains to the congregation what communion is all about, and that what can happen if they partake of it unworthy, meaning that they are not in good standings with GOD, THE CHURCH, GODS PEOPLE, not so much as a local assembly. I have been a member of a church, and had to leave as hubby was called to Pastor at a sister church (meaning of "like Denomonation"). So by your beliefs the church would NOT offer me or my hubby communion? So you're saying that your church and those like it, can put a man behind the pulpit to preach the 'truth'& 'Feed the Sheep' and most importantly preaching the scripture to those that are lost, that they may be Saved..but can not take communion?? I mean, surely before you put him behind the pulpit you check out his 'standings' in his home church and community. This is something that to me would upset me to say the least.
> We're in fellowship with God, but thought not by your beliefs?? Why else would you deny communion. Every man is to examine him self, not you or your church. It's this kinda of thing that keeps the Lost from getting saved. Man's rules and tradition. There are churches full of people that are going to die and bust H*** wide open because of man's tradition that he has no Bible to back it up.
> Now, don't y'all come back and say that I'm saying 'your' church is going to H*** & mine isn't..(I know some of you would come back and say something like this) because I'm not. I'm saying that tradition has a place in the church, but not base all belief on it. Communion is a Sacred, Holy, thing between you and God. You can't see ones heart. I'm sure there are members of your church that take communion that are probably unworthy of it more than the visitor's you deny.


 

First off, I never said our Pastor isn't allowed to take communion....

Secondly, anyone that comes to preach at our church is a visitor that is not a member of our church... Yes they more than likely believe the same way we do, why else would we have them come preach? We are not going to bring someone in to preach, that is not in accordence with our belief.

Like I said above...

No, we don't assume anything... we as a church know who is in good standing within our congregation...

The requirements are that your heart be right, and that you are to have no disagreements or greivences with any brothers/sisters... If you are not in good standing with your church, then there is a problem, between you and your church, that should be fixed before you partake...

How are we to know, if you have any "greivences" if we do not even know you?

Isn't it better to er on the side of caution, than to allow all to partake and then later find out that you offered a person communion that should not have partaken?

I know what you or others might say... "It is their decision to partake"...  My answer to that is, has anyone here ever partaken when they shouldn't have? either peer pressure, or not wanting to be embarassed, multiple other reasons...

DB BB


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> But that is not your place to figure it out.
> 
> And I believe what Pigpen was speaking to was a visiting pastor. But since there are no missionaries I am also assuming no visiting pastors either.
> 
> You can phrase that any way you would like. You cannot know another's heart and you are denying the purpose for us being together to begin with.


 
Visiting pastors, are still Visitors... We support several missionaries... We are not their home church, but we have chosen to support them...

I guess we will have to agree to disagree...

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> But that is not your place to figure it out.
> 
> And I believe what Pigpen was speaking to was a visiting pastor. But since there are no missionaries I am also assuming no visiting pastors either.
> 
> You can phrase that any way you would like. You cannot know another's heart and you are denying the purpose for us being together to begin with.



 No I mean the actual Pastor of the Church, I am a member of a Baptist Church and I have been a Pastor, but their are some Baptist Churches that could call me to be their Pastor but not let me partake of their communion because I am a member at the other Baptist Church. I know of several of these churches.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> No, we don't assume anything... we as a church know who is in good standing within our congregation...
> 
> The requirements are that your heart be right, and that you are to have no disagreements or greivences with any brothers/sisters... If you are not in good standing with your church, then there is a problem, between you and your church, that should be fixed before you partake...
> 
> ...



Yes. When I was a teen and I was a member of that church too. Made no difference. You are drawing an imaginary line that states only your congregation can be trusted and are truly saved.

The desire to take communion shows someones spirit and heart.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I guess we will have to agree to disagree...
> 
> DB BB



Wow...DB....we finally found something to disagree on


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Wow...DB....we finally found something to disagree on


 

It was bound to happen... Can't agree all the time...

It would be to boring...

DB BB


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## thedeacon (Jan 22, 2009)

I am also a member of the Church of Christ and when we have communion (every Sunday) we pass it to every single person in the building and give them the oppertunity to partake. It is between them and God wheather or not they are in the right frame of mind to take the Bread or the Fruit of the vine.


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## Doc_Holliday23 (Jan 22, 2009)

anybody can take communion in my church.  it is up to them to determine if their heart is prepared.


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## jawja_peach (Jan 22, 2009)

*alrighty then...*



Double Barrel BB said:


> First off, I never said our Pastor isn't allowed to take communion....
> 
> Secondly, anyone that comes to preach at our church is a visitor that is not a member of our church... Yes they more than likely believe the same way we do, why else would we have them come preach? We are not going to bring someone in to preach, that is not in accordence with our belief.
> 
> ...




Hello again friend... 
First and foremost when I say your church I'm really not saying "your church" I'm saying all churches that believe in this...I'm not singling you or your church out per-say, just have questions and trying to understand _your _(meaning in general) reason for this.

I have another question. You won't let non-members/visitors, who are Saved and in the Will of God, take communion at your local assembly, but a member, say a young man in his 20's who is dating a young girl who is in her 20's and they've been dating for years and are having premarital sex. But Communion comes around and the boy is served, he partakes to keep others from knowing he's not right with God. But you offer it to him and rely on him to examine himself worthy, and he's not... But that visitor that came in behind them is in the Will of God, and you don't serve them.  


No, we don't assume anything... we as a church know who is in good standing within our congregation...

OK, the above statement doesn't make since because you have said we don't serve them because you don't know if they have a "grievances" with the Lord or their church, because you don't know them...But you *know* who is in the congregation?? _HOW_?? How can you look at one and say He is and He isn't...??? *You do NOT know the HEART OF ANYONE other than yourself*.

This confuses me. Does this mean that your Denom. is the only one worthy of taking communion?? Where do you draw the line?? The line being that you trust the members of your church (in general) but don't the Pastor or those of like faith?? I don't believe in a Pastor joining a church, because if God takes him out of that position as Pastor, it's hard to bring in another Pastor to lead the flock. I've been in a church that was this way, and the new Pastor had a very hard time because he felt he wasn't measuring up or that the formal pastor was sizing him up, second guessing everything. When we left the church hubby Pastored, we went back to our church and they had just brought in a new Pastor that had been preaching but a year or two, and hubby was more experienced and both felt awkward. Needless to say we left and are now members of another sister church..Funny how God works, because we are so happy where we are!  

But that, plus a few other things are the reason why I don't agree with a Pastor being a member of the church. I'm not saying _never though_, as I'm sure there will be and/are exceptions in some church for certain reason's they can not help.

Again, I'm not being snide or ugly. I just really don't understand how you can single out one person, let them partake because they are a member of your church--local assembly, when they may not even be where they're suppose to be with God...and the other who's in a very close walk with God... you believe the one and not the other, you are judging. You nor anyone can see the heart, only Christ. So how do you get this when they  believe the same Church Covenant. Have the same faith....How do you know the heart? How can you tell and offer the cup to a member who you _really_ don't know if they are in the Will of God or not. You say above

If you are not in good standing with your church, then there is a problem, between you and your church, that should be fixed before you partake...

How are we to know, if you have any "grievances" if we do not even know you?

Again communion is between a sacred thing between us and God...AND ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART!!


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Hello again friend...
> 
> I have another question. You won't let non-members/visitors, who are Saved and in the Will of God, take communion at your local assembly, but a member, say a young man in his 20's who is dating a young girl who is in her 20's and they've been dating for years and are having premarital sex. But Communion comes around and the boy is served, he partakes to keep others from knowing he's not right with God. But you offer it to him and rely on him to examine himself worthy, and he's not... But that visitor that came in behind them is in the Will of God, and you don't serve them.


 
Hello! I will try and answer your questions...

Well first, if anyone partakes in communion unworthly, then what does the Bible say about people that do that?

I would say if there is unconfessed sin, or grievences with a brother or sister, or just that you fel you are not in the will of God, you should never partake in communion.

As a church it will be known if you are in good standing...yes the church may not know what your pet sins are, or that you are having premarital sex, but it would be known if you had not been to church in 6 months, or if you disagreed with what the churchwas doingon somethings, it could be a multitude of things...



jawja_peach said:


> No, we don't assume anything... we as a church know who is in good standing within our congregation...
> 
> OK, the above statement doesn't make since because you have said we don't serve them because you don't know if they have a "grievances" with the Lord or their church, because you don't know them...But you *know* who is in the congregation?? _HOW_?? How can you look at one and say He is and He isn't...??? *You do NOT know the HEART OF ANYONE other than yourself*.


 
Would a church know the heart of their members better than a perfect stranger/visitors heart? I am not saying that there are not some members that probably should not partake, I am sure there are...

I have been in a church before that where we did not partake in the Lord's Supper because the church itself was having problems... That is probably another topic though...



jawja_peach said:


> This confuses me. Does this mean that your Denom. is the only one worthy of taking communion?? Where do you draw the line?? The line being that you trust the members of your church (in general) but don't the Pastor or those of like faith??


 
The Pastor partakes at our church. The line is drawn at being members of the local church. If you are of like faith then you understand you understand why ours is closed. We have a sister church, we used to believe the same things, but over the course of many years(I believe it has been about 30 years) the sister church has, become very different... Yes they believe in the core beliefs but that is about it...



jawja_peach said:


> Again, I'm not being snide or ugly. I just really don't understand how you can single out one person, let them partake because they are a member of your church--local assembly, when they may not even be where they're suppose to be with God...and the other who's in a very close walk with God... you believe the one and not the other, you are judging. You nor anyone can see the heart, only Christ. So how do you get this when they believe the same Church Covenant. Have the same faith....How do you know the heart? How can you tell and offer the cup to a member who you _really_ don't know if they are in the Will of God or not. You say above
> 
> If you are not in good standing with your church, then there is a problem, between you and your church, that should be fixed before you partake...
> 
> ...


 
No, I don't know your heart or the visitor's heart... I am not judging... If you are a member and don't want to partake, no one is holding a gun to your head saying, "you better partake"

I have not partaken because I was not in the Will of God, or I had a problem with a brother/sister. I have never been in bad standing with a church before, but I know when I moved my membership to the church I am at, if I had left my previous church on bad terms, I would have had to go back and make things right before my membership was accepted at my new church... That is the kind of things I am talking about when I say "not in good standing"

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but...

It really gets under my skin when people say so and so is judging... Does the bible say we are to judge? Yes, by the Bible.

Judge not lest you be judged is probably one of the least understood parts of the bible..

We can agree to disagree, I will try and give you explainations about my belief and why I believe that way, but I don't foresee my belief changing, that I leave up to God...

I hope that anything I have typed is not offensive to you...

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

DD BB, What if your Pastor was not a member their, could he partake? The reason I am asking is I know some that will not allow it...


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> DD BB, What if your Pastor was not a member their, could he partake? The reason I am asking is I know some that will not allow it...


 

If he was not a member, then no he would not be allowed to partake... but we have never had a pastor that wasn't a member, and probably never will...

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> If he was not a member, then no he would not be allowed to partake... but we have never had a pastor that wasn't a member, and probably never will...
> 
> DB BB



 The reason I was given by the church that I am talking about was that communion was a "Church" ordinance, and a person that was not a part of that church could not partake of a ordinance of that church..
   Is that kinda like your belief?


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> The reason I was given by the church that I am talking about was that communion was a "Church" ordinance, and a person that was not a part of that church could not partake of a ordinance of that church..
> Is that kinda like your belief?


 

sounds pretty close.

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> sounds pretty close.
> 
> DB BB



  Baptism is also a Church Ordinance, could a pastor who was not a member Baptize someone there?


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Baptism is also a Church Ordinance, could a pastor who was not a member Baptize someone there?


 
I don't know... it has never arisen....  We just got done buildingour new church with a baptismal... before we used a members pond, that was just down hill from some chicken houses...

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> I don't know... it has never arisen....  We just got done buildingour new church with a baptismal... before we used a members pond, that was just down hill from some chicken houses...
> 
> DB BB


 It seems to me if a Church was so strict about the communion, that they wouldn't allow the pastor to partake if he wasn't a member, they shouldn't allow him to baptize either, both a Church ordinances..


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## Double Barrel BB (Jan 22, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> It seems to me if a Church was so strict about the communion, that they wouldn't allow the pastor to partake if he wasn't a member, they shouldn't allow him to baptize either, both a Church ordinances..


 
perhaps... but like I said... our Pastor is a member...

DB BB


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## pigpen1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> perhaps... but like I said... our Pastor is a member...
> 
> DB BB



 I know yours is I am just trying to figure this other church out, they won't let their pastor take communion but will let him baptize..maybe ask your pastor if he has every heard of this and his opinion, I would like to know. I just don't understand how they can exclude him from one ordinance and allow him in on the other.

  PP1


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## Ronnie T (Jan 22, 2009)

1Corinthians 11:27   Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord

Below is worth reading.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
27. eat and drink-So one of the oldest manuscripts reads. But three or four equally old manuscripts, the Vulgate and Cyprian, read, "or." Romanists quote this reading in favor of communion in one kind. This consequence does not follow. Paul says, "Whosoever is guilty of unworthy conduct, either in eating the bread, or in drinking the cup, is guilty of the body and blood of Christ." Impropriety in only one of the two elements, vitiates true communion in both. Therefore, in the end of the verse, he says, not "body or blood," but "body and blood." Any who takes the bread without the wine, or the wine without the bread, "unworthily" communicates, and so "is guilty of Christ's body and blood"; for he disobeys Christ's express command to partake of both. If we do not partake of the sacramental symbol of the Lord's death worthily, we share in the guilt of that death. (Compare "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh," Heb 6:6). Unworthiness in the person, is not what ought to exclude any, but unworthily communicating: However unworthy we be, if we examine ourselves so as to find that we penitently believe in Christ's Gospel, we may worthily communicate.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 22, 2009)

More that's worth reading.
Written by Bro. Henry a long long time ago.  He speaks to several things we've discussed in this thread.
I underlined certain phrases.


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

11:23-34 The apostle describes the sacred ordinance, of which he had the knowledge by revelation from Christ. As to the visible signs, these are the bread and wine. What is eaten is called bread, though at the same time it is said to be the body of the Lord, plainly showing that the apostle did not mean that the bread was changed into flesh. St. Matthew tells us, our Lord bid them all drink of the cup, ch. Mt 26:27, as if he would, by this expression, provide against any believer being deprived of the cup. The things signified by these outward signs, are Christ's body and blood, his body broken, his blood shed, together with all the benefits which flow from his death and sacrifice. Our Saviour's actions were, taking the bread and cup, giving thanks, breaking the bread, and giving both the one and the other. The actions of the communicants were, to take the bread and eat, to take the cup and drink, and to do both in remembrance of Christ. But the outward acts are not the whole, or the principal part, of what is to be done at this holy ordinance. Those who partake of it, are to take him as their Lord and Life, yield themselves up to him, and live upon him. Here is an account of the ends of this ordinance. It is to be done in remembrance of Christ, to keep fresh in our minds his dying for us, as well as to remember Christ pleading for us, in virtue of his death, at God's right hand. It is not merely in remembrance of Christ, of what he has done and suffered; but to celebrate his grace in our redemption. We declare his death to be our life, the spring of all our comforts and hopes. And we glory in such a declaration; we show forth his death, and plead it as our accepted sacrifice and ransom. The Lord's supper is not an ordinance to be observed merely for a time, but to be continued. The apostle lays before the Corinthians the danger of receiving it with an unsuitable temper of mind; or keeping up the covenant with sin and death, while professing to renew and confirm the covenant with God. No doubt such incur great guilt, and so render themselves liable to spiritual judgements. But fearful believers should not be discouraged from attending at this holy ordinance. The Holy Spirit never caused this scripture to be written to deter serious Christians from their duty, though the devil has often made this use of it. The apostle was addressing Christians, and warning them to beware of the temporal judgements with which God chastised his offending servants. And in the midst of judgement, God remembers mercy: he many times punishes those whom he loves. It is better to bear trouble in this world, than to be miserable for ever. The apostle points out the duty of those who come to the Lord's table. Self-examination is necessary to right attendance at this holy ordinance. If we would thoroughly search ourselves, to condemn and set right what we find wrong, we should stop Divine judgements. The apostle closes all with a caution against the irregularities of which the Corinthians were guilty at the Lord's table. Let all look to it, that they do not come together to God's worship, so as to provoke him, and bring down vengeance on themselves.


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## jawja_peach (Jan 23, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I know yours is I am just trying to figure this other church out, they won't let their pastor take communion but will let him baptize..maybe ask your pastor if he has every heard of this and his opinion, I would like to know. I just don't understand how they can exclude him from one ordinance and allow him in on the other.
> 
> PP1



First off, cute 'possum there Pigpen!! I said the very same thing above, that I didn't understand that they can pick and choose what the Pastor and do and what he can't. Kinda seems like a trust issue to me. And how can you trust him/who ever to preach the word to a lost and die'n world, and Baptize, but not be 'in fellowship' enough to take communion. I think this has us all stumped.

Again love the possum pics!


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## jawja_peach (Jan 23, 2009)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Hello! I will try and answer your questions...
> 
> Well first, if anyone partakes in communion unworthly, then what does the Bible say about people that do that?
> 
> ...




Oh of course, I would never think to ask you to change your beliefs because I believe a certain way, and I never want someone to think I was trying to 'convert' them to my beliefs. I'm on here just like everyone else, giving my opinion and reading others. Yes, we can agree to disagree and I thank you for such.  I thank you for being so nice and understanding. I pray that I never come across as being ugly or rude, what have you. As if something gets under my skin, I might say something that doesn't come across the way I meant it to, or to hard. But usually I cool off and apologize if I do such...lol... But thank you for answering my questions and I have seen where Pigpen has asked you a few of my own questions... (hey Pigpen, how do you know what I'm thinking...??) So I will now sit back and read...until I have another question...


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## gtparts (Jan 23, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> First off, cute 'possum there Pigpen!! I said the very same thing above, that I didn't understand that they can pick and choose what the Pastor and do and what he can't. Kinda seems like a trust issue to me. And how can you trust him/who ever to preach the word to a lost and die'n world, and Baptize, but not be 'in fellowship' enough to take communion. I think this has us all stumped.
> 
> Again love the possum pics!



I like your reasoned response to this particular situation.

To find a pastor, whose calling is acknowledged, whose theology is found to be sound, and whose reputation is such that a church would allow him to stand in the pulpit and preach the Word of God, seems to be more than sufficient reason to allow his participation in the Lord's Supper. The Bible talks plainly against showing partiality in worship. While I understand that certain rules and tradition are at play in denying Communion to some, perhaps the practice has been so rigidly applied that it is actually a transgression against the Spirit of worship.

Peace.


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## Big7 (Jan 26, 2009)

*Closed*



celticfisherman said:


> Every sunday in my church. Personally I beleive it shoudl be available every day though. But at a minimum every time there is a service.



Every day at Catholic Churches that have large enough
Congregations to have Mass every day, which most are today.

And.. It is closed to ALL non-Catholics and EVEN to Catholics
that are not in a Sanctifying State of Grace - those who are 
not free of un-repented Mortal Sin.

And ....
Catholics are forbidden to worship in non-Catholic Churches—
let alone receiving their form of eucharist. 
To knowingly attempt to receive such eucharist is mortally sinful for a Catholic.

Catholics and Communion

The Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in Communion. To receive Communion worthily, you must be in a state of grace, have made a good confession since your last mortal sin, believe in transubstantiation, observe the Eucharistic fast, and, finally, not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication. 

First, you must be in a state of grace. "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup" (1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement which can never be dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner. 

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church. 

Out of habit and out of fear of what those around them will think if they do not receive Communion, some Catholics, in a state of mortal sin, choose to go forward and offend God rather than stay in the pew while others receive the Eucharist. The Church’s ancient teaching on this particular matter is expressed in the Didache, an early Christian document written around A.D. 70, which states: "Whosoever is holy [i.e., in a state of sanctifying grace], let him approach. Whosoever is not, let him repent" (Didache 10). 

More on that HERE:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp


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## celticfisherman (Jan 26, 2009)

Like I have said many times before. I come real close to being Catholic on many issues.


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## Big7 (Jan 26, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Like I have said many times before. I come real close to being Catholic on many issues.



Good For You!


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## Banjo (Jan 26, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Like I have said many times before. I come real close to being Catholic on many issues.



I know curiosity killed the cat.....but....

What think ye of Mary?


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## thedeacon (Jan 26, 2009)

What does the bible say about communion? Thats what is important, not what a single church or person decides. To many times we depend on what we are told by mortals and not what the bible says. 

2 Tim. 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, A workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Read, study, pray, open your heart to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Accept what the bible says


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## celticfisherman (Jan 26, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I know curiosity killed the cat.....but....
> 
> What think ye of Mary?



That she was the mother of Christ. And in some unknown way she was given the Honor of bringing our Lord into the world. She is not a co-redemptress (even though that is not official Catholic doctrine) nor was she without sin or conceived without sin (immaculate conception). 

She is to be revered for the glory God heaped on her. I do not see her as an intercessor but understand the temptation to do so.


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## Big7 (Jan 26, 2009)

This ain't the "Mary" thread.





celticfisherman said:


> That she was the mother of Christ. And in some unknown way she was given the Honor of bringing our Lord into the world. She is not a co-redemptress (even though that is not official Catholic doctrine) nor was she without sin or conceived without sin (immaculate conception).
> She is to be revered for the glory God heaped on her. I do not see her as an intercessor but understand the temptation to do so.



1)Correct
2)Correct, except definitely known to The Father.
3)a.Correct b.also correct  c.incorrect  d.also incorrect.
4) Correct
5) a. She is definitely an intercessor, as are all Saints in Heaven.
b. You should,because She is. 

The Doctrine
In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin." 

"The Blessed Virgin Mary..."
The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body. 


MORE HERE:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm


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## celticfisherman (Jan 26, 2009)

See Big7 why I say I am almost Catholic. Just can't go with the immaculate conception. Mainly since it is not in our cannon. And I also don't understand the need for it. I understand why it is there but to me it is a never ending circle.

If as an intercessor you mean they pray for us the way I would pray for you. Maybe. The Gospel of Matthew does say "the unseen cloud of witnesses". So I am willing to bend a little but not to the point of us having to pray to them for their intercession. Still being protestant I don't see the need for anyone in between us and Christ.


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## Big7 (Jan 26, 2009)

Come on!... you're almost there.


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## celticfisherman (Jan 26, 2009)

Yeah.....

Put me in the Reformed Catholic realm... Bout as close as I am going to get. But I won't bash Catholics. Too much that is worthy of learning in the tradition. We tossed out too much in the years after the Reformation.


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## elfiii (Jan 27, 2009)

"The body of Christ, the cup of Salvation". What mortal man may deny another mortal man these sacraments in the Lord's House? 

Whether or not a person is "fit" to receive them is between that person and the Lord. He who claims to divine the moral state of the recipient and deny him the body and blood of Christ commits an even greater sin, regardless of what scriptural passages he may use to defend himself and his actions.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 27, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Yeah.....
> 
> Put me in the Reformed Catholic realm... Bout as close as I am going to get. But I won't bash Catholics. Too much that is worthy of learning in the tradition. We tossed out too much in the years after the Reformation.





Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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