# camo- a good discussion.



## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2009)

earlier in one of these threads, Mark (rapid fire), made a comment about the effectiveness of camo clothing- or the absence of it, as it were. That struck a note with me because I've begun to do something a little different starting this season. I'm not going to buy any more camo clothing. Instead, I've begun to look for duds that are earth tone or neutral in color. I stop in Good Will at least once a week and look for dull patterned flannels and olive to brown- colored cotton pants.  I've even found an awesome wool shirt in a good color for hunting. I've spent an awful lot of money in the past buying the latest camo pattern matching everything right down to my flashlight. how stupid is that? a camo flashlight! think about it. So far this year I've been lucky enough to arrow two does and a hog- and excluding my hat, i had on no camo clothing. To be honest, I "felt"  more traditional by not being all camo'd up. I think that being still and keeping scent to a minimum are WAY more important than looking like a real tree or a mossy oak. that's just my opinion. And sorry for the long post, just killing a little time before I go and pick up my brand new buffalo bow. D.


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## injun joe (Sep 24, 2009)

I've often wondered about the need for camo underwear that I see in the catalogs.


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## PAPALAPIN (Sep 24, 2009)

Many of us...including me...make the mistake of picking a camo pattern because we like the way it looks.  We should be picking a pattern that causes us to blend in to the background of the area we are hunting.  It is more important to consider how it looks to a deer; or rather, how it doesn't look to a deer.

Your idea of using earth tone dull colors can be effective but you do need to consider making sure you have something in there the breaks up your outline.  The plaid idea can be efficient.  Before the use of blase orange, the most common hunting shirt was red and black plaid.

The standard old "woodland pattern" used by many hunters and the military in the past was very effective.  I think the introduction of more modern camo patterns was so successful because many of us liked the way it looked to us, instead of how it would make us blend in.  I went the same route as you with Mossy Oak, down to a Mossy Oak belt, socks and, cap.  Heaven forbid that I would commit a fashion faux pas of mixing camo patterns.   When I toolka fancy to Advantage, i quit worrying about all correct matching accessories.  It would have been too expensive to ame a total conversion.  Now I just mix it up any way I feel like it.  At least I backed off before I started sporting a camo ascot.

We need to keep in mind that dear don't see the world in the same way we do.  That is why we can get away with wearing "Blaze Orange" when to gun season opens up.  You can get blaze orange in a broken up pattern.

Camo is important.  However, staying still, and scent control, are more inportant in my opinion.


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## Apex Predator (Sep 24, 2009)

I've had one matching set of camo through the years.  I don't worry about it as much as I used to, and still have many close encounters.  I do think that mix-matching pants and top are more effective than all one pattern.  I've been buying the Dickies work pants in brown or green the last few years.  I don't think you can wear them out!


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## Rare Breed (Sep 24, 2009)

As the season continues the deer will become more alert to our presents, both to our scent and through visual contact if you have noticed when a deer picks up your scent they will start looking for you, if they can't pin point ya, you might just get a shot, but later in the season they will not hang out long enough to get the shot with a bow, one snort and there gone. I think your right about staying down wind and movement. I don't think you need expensive camo, you could tie dye those dark closes w/ bleach, I would say that good cover is more important than fancy camo.


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## RogerB (Sep 24, 2009)

Two years ago I bought a "cheap" netting leafy suit (under $50) in a XXL size. I just wear it over what ever (sometimes just the jacket if I am doing alot of walking, especially in briars). On hot days I even wear it over shorts and a t-shirt (learned that from Dennis) Breaks up my outline, which is what I think the deer pick up on many times anyway, and turns everything I wear into camo. Cheap and effective. Its still in good shape (should get another 2-3 years from it). $50 for camo in 5-6 years is pretty reasonable.


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## bobman (Sep 24, 2009)

if your up a tree ina shadow with the sun behind you its not needed 

on the ground its a big help IMO.

The problem I see is that camo is designed for turkey and duck hunters to exactly match stuff like tree bark or cattails because birds have color vision and very good eyesight

and it works well for them

elk and deer hunting on the other hand you need bigger patches of distinctly different colors to break up your silouette

different tools for different jobs

I wear camo all the time I'm hunting


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## fountain (Sep 24, 2009)

i think trying to keep the wind in favor is the best you can do and maybe spray down to minimize odor you have on you.  keeping the swirling winds in your favor is tough at times, but just keep it in the general direction opposite of where the animals are likely to come from or pick another spot that is suitable.  i still wear camo--cause i have a lot of it and will continue to use it until i wear it our or outgrow it--which is coming fast!  i still want a ghillie suit simply cause i have always wanted one!  i have killed plenty of animals in shorts, t-shirts, sandals, bare footed, jeans, colored shirts--heck i have hunted hogs in the summer with white shirts on and killed.  a guy that hunts with us killed a bug buck sunday afternoon wearing shorts, t-shirt and crocs at 15 yards.  the wind was right and he was tucked in tight in some pines


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## bobman (Sep 24, 2009)

injun joe said:


> I've often wondered about the need for camo underwear that I see in the catalogs.



 you been peeking at Victoria's secrets again


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## RogerB (Sep 24, 2009)

I agree that scent and movement have probably saved more deer's lives that lack of good camo has. However, when that older mature (read that as 10 point) is close, I want all the advantage I can get. I have had yearlings stand and look at me, and I don't think it would have mattered what I was wearing or what I did, they just seem to have a death wish. However, we all know that as deer get older, they are spooked alot easier and most any mistake will cost you a shot. While I like to get on a tree that has some good cover, that is not always possible. 
I'm not willing to argue which camo is the best, or how much is enough, I just know I have lost shot opportunities because deer picked me out. It is impossible to measure how effective camo is as opposed to not wearing camo. If a deer sees you without camo, would he have still seen you with it, I don't know. I you kill a deer with camo on, would you have still killed him without it? I don't know. 
I do know that camo gives you some advantage, but I don't know how much. There are alot of people that kill alot more critters than I do, and do it with out camo. Probably means they are better hunters than I am, not that camo doesn't help. I do believe my leafy suit is worth wearing.
I do think hogs are another matter, their eye site is pretty poor.


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## schreck_1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Good discussion.

I think camo manufacturers have done a great job of marketing "cool" camo patterns to hunters.  Economics thru college and now that I have kids and a house eating at my wallet have made it impossible for me to have the latest and greatest matched camo pattern.  And to tell you the truth, I'm glad.  I think there is a practical medium somewhere between the complete matched set of Moldy Oak Disadvantage and a t-shirt and blue jeans. I've killed most of my deer in the last few years wearing olive or brown pants and a camo shirt.

Researchers at UGA have studied the deer's eyesight pretty thoroughly in the last few years.  They say that deer see basically the same as a red/green colorblind human as far as color goes. As Papalapin stated, in the past the most common shirt wore by hunters was the old woolrich black and red plaid.  This worked well because deer don't see the red color spectum.  The red appears to be drab gray/green.  UGA also figures that deer see the color blue the best.  Does this mean leave the jeans at home?  It does for me.

Deer also "see" differently than we do.  Humans focus on individual points as we look over the forest.  We can only really focus on one thing at a time, but as we look around we build a mental image of the details of each point we see.  Deer do not do this.  Instead they see everything at once, but aren't able to concentrate their focus on points.  This is why the react most often to movement rather than to a color or shape.  Think about it as if a deer sees everything the way you see in your peripheral vision.  If you see something move from the corner of your eye, you turn your head and focus on it.  The deer can't focus on it, but they sure do notice the movement.

Bottom line: stay still, break up your outline either with cover or camo, mind the wind, and wear drab colors.


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## frankwright (Sep 24, 2009)

I think most camo is made to fool the hunter and not the deer. In my opinion most of todays camo is way too dark, especially for Georgia where there is still green for most of the season.
I like Mossy Oak Obsession,several of the green Predator colors and the realtree APG is OK but a little hard to find.
I often mix tops and bottoms and really like the plain old woodland GI pants. I like camo pants for the fit, pockets and comfort but you could probably get buy with any solid muted colors.
Watching the wind, masking your scent and not moving are probably more important than camo.
I like camo, I wear it, I feel like I am in hunting mode when I wear it but more traditional clothes would probably be just as good.


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## Bubbaforsure (Sep 24, 2009)

schreck_1 said:


> Good discussion.
> 
> I think camo manufacturers have done a great job of marketing "cool" camo patterns to hunters.



 
It all depends on what ever makes you comfortable?
The same camo pattern, mixed, matched, plaid, 
solid, it really doesn't matter. If it makes you 
feel more confident or it's what you like to do....
Go For it...Bottom Line is ...if you are not being quiet 
and still...
You're done for!


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## SOS (Sep 24, 2009)

Main good thing about camo is most are 6 pocket pants.  If you only by from Sierra outdoors or wait until the end of the season sales, it's cheaper than regulare stuff.  I got a pair of pants in some western ponderosa pine pattern for $6.  Can't beat that!


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## LanceColeman (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm sort of like Marty in that although I do have several sets of matching camo, I usually break it up and wear to different tones and or shades top and bottom. That said I honestly and truly could care less wether or not I "feel Trad" Matter of factly, no offense to anyone here on GON, but  there's some fellas on internet message boards that deem themselves "Trad" and to be honest the last thing I would ever want is to be associated with them.

 I actually spray paint camo on most of my bows and as far as trad goes?? My favorite recurve shoots a center rest and plastic vanes off carbon arrows. Also groups broadheads as tight in the rain as it does in the sunshine. A guy I talk to quite a bit named the bow "antitrad"

I pretty much do nothing to fit, feel, suit or be "trad" I do everything to fit, feel and suit my hunting ways and style.

That said as high as I hunt in trees in some of my spots I could probably wear as pink jump suit and flashy soled tennis shoes and still not be detected. 

But put me on the ground?? And yes sir...... Camo is to me a big deal.


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## ddd-shooter (Sep 24, 2009)

Camo is for the birds-literally. 

All effectiveness that you might have gained with the latest greatest pattern is lost on deer when you throw on your 500 square inches of blaze orange. 
How many hunters-myself included-have have killed many a smart old deer wearing orange?


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## LanceColeman (Sep 25, 2009)

Deer don't see Orange. They diffrentiate shades and tones but not colors. Pattern is more important than anything.


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## rapid fire (Sep 25, 2009)

Good discussion Dendy.  I have been saying for years that I was going to go a whole season with nothing but jeans and flannel, but I just haven't brought myself to it yet.  I do still like BDU's.  I figure the US Millitary spent millions and lots of time coming up with a good break up pattern so it must be pretty good.  Maybe next year I will actually take the challenge.


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## TNGIRL (Sep 25, 2009)

Got lots of different patterns of hunting gear. It really comes down to what I can get myself into that season. The ladies know this....you got the "skinny" cloths then the "water gain" cloths!!!! You guys don't have that happening usually!!!! We have 5 different belts too!!!!!
But I know myself scent and movement are key. And sometime if they're in rut, neither one is key!!!!


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## dm/wolfskin (Sep 25, 2009)

I mix my camo. My pants are Predator grey but will use Army woodland camo when it's hot. When starts getting cold I wear wool pullover longhunter shirt that Ron Laclair sells. Most of my long sleeve cotton t-shirt are from Wal-mart and I buy them when they go on sell after the hunting season is over. Mike


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## PAPALAPIN (Sep 25, 2009)

Another thing that matters and has not been mention is "Ultraviolet colors"

We don't see them...deer do.

The UGA study identified that dear have different setups of rods and cones in their eyes.  That's why they see colors different than we do.  They see into a higher color spectrum than we do.

When you buy a brand new set of camo, it is very bright looking.  This is due to ultra violet colors in the materials.  This may look appealing to us, but to a deer it is lake seeing a flare.

It is very important to wash out the ultra violent effect on your hunting cloths.  There are many special hunters cloths wash that have special ingrediants to get the UV out, as well as being unscented.  Regular detergent does not remove the UV as well and will smell like fresh laundry to us, but be a big warning to deer.

So make sure to wash those new duds until they are dull, dull, dull.  If any UV is left in them, you and I won't see it but it will be like walking around the woods with a neon sign saying  "here I am" to the deer.


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## dm/wolfskin (Sep 25, 2009)

I have a black light I keep in my bathroom to check. Some t-shirts I bought would light up pretty good. They're work shirts now. Mike


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## Elbow (Sep 25, 2009)

TNGIRL said:


> Got lots of different patterns of hunting gear. It really comes down to what I can get myself into that season. The ladies know this....you got the "skinny" cloths then the "water gain" cloths!!!! You guys don't have that happening usually!!!! We have 5 different belts too!!!!!
> But I know myself scent and movement are key. And sometime if they're in rut, neither one is key!!!!



I'm with ya TNGirl! We women will dress according to how we "feel" maybe having a fat day or a good day.  But I do wear scents, essential oils, and I have attracted the deer at the range, they almost actually walk up to me.  The fellas nicknamed me the "Deer Whisperer".  They seem to like the Cinnamon Buns scent; just a tip guys!
El


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## TIMBERGHOST (Sep 25, 2009)

I learned the techniques of Camouflage, Cover, and Concealment when I was in the ARMY.  If used properly, they are just as effective against 4 legged prey as they are against 2 legged prey. 

CAMOUFLAGE - is wearing clothing patterns which break up your body's out line,  face paints which break up the outline of your face and reduce shine,  and attaching natural local vegetation to you, your clothing,  or your hat to assist in further breaking up your outline.  Solid colors which blend into the surroundings can work just as well as or even better than purchased camo pattern. You want to blend in.  If you are wearing Advantage camo and you are hanging on the trunk of a Georgia Pine, you aren't exactly blending in...  

COVER - In combat refers to getting behind or under something to protect you from being shot or hit with fragments.  In hunting, COVER refers to covering your scent. There are a number of cover scents which may or may not work so well.  I've decided that if I am clean and use unscented  soap and shampoo, that my clothes are clean and washed in unscented detergent, and I use unscented deodorant,   that's cover enough - usually.  However,  I will admit that the most effective additional cover scent I have ever used is good ole horse pucky.  That's right, step in that in your rubber boots and there ain't no better cover scent.  On top of that,  deer don't seem to be frightened or even concerned by the smell of horse manure - so I have observed. 

CONCEALMENT - Is using terrain, vegetation, structures, fog or smoke, the dark, noise and light discipline techniques, or whatever else is at your disposal to conceal you, your activities, or your equipment from observation by the enemy or your prey.  Vegetation (leaves and branches) around me and my stand are more important and have been more effective than any camo pattern I've used.  When I climb up in a tree, I may try to do it before sunrise. I try to be very quiet and I do not use a flashlight within 100 yards or so of my intended stand site.  When I select a tree to climb, I make sure there are branches with leaves on them I can pull in around me once settled. Ideally,  if there is a smaller sapling or younger tree next to "my tree" I settle in so that the smaller tree is right in front of me and hopefully touching the base of my stand.  I can get away with all kinds of movement and foolishness when I use good concealment techniques.  

All of that said,  please don't neglect to hunt the wind if at all possible.  Try to hunt downwind of the expected and most likely avenue of approach of your target - er, prey

I've even been known to scare the you know what  out of a tresspasser/poacher  on occasion using these principles. 
Hope they help you.


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## LanceColeman (Sep 25, 2009)

TNGIRL said:


> Got lots of different patterns of hunting gear. It really comes down to what I can get myself into that season. The ladies know this....you got the "skinny" cloths then the "water gain" cloths!!!! You guys don't have that happening usually!!!! We have 5 different belts too!!!!!
> But I know myself scent and movement are key. And sometime if they're in rut, neither one is key!!!!



I'll beg ta differ widja there mam. During the summer when I'm installing metal roofs I cut an average of 9-13#s of water wieght A DAY. I get up in the morning and go to work wieghing around 188. I come home weighing around 176-177#s. And I think I average around 3 gallons of water intake a day. I feel plumb bloated by bed time during those times.

I start to gain a little wieght as soon as it starts cooling and I don't sweat as bad. But soon as rut kicks in I start dropping wieght again because I spend so much time trekking mountains. I only carry around 8% body fat so I have no clue where it's going or coming from. All I know is jeans that fit snug  in the morning require a belt to conceal my butt crack by evening.

TimberGhost is spot on. Spend any amount of time in teams or sniper training and you learn some very functional concealment techniques.


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## Slasher (Sep 25, 2009)

LanceColeman said:


> TimberGhost is spot on. Spend any amount of time in teams or sniper training and you learn some very functional concealment techniques.



I know my ghillie suit is more than I need...(but it's too hot to use most of the time.... )

But my experience is that deer see different than we do... I think deer honestly see shades... In my experience softer cloth has less light reflectivity to it, and absorb light so to speak... 

Thanks why wool,  soft cotton, flannel, fleece, ghillie suit and leafy suits are so effective.... they add a sense of depth...  But I am not to particular on what I wear in the woods... I wear a lot of old GI gear green... I wear a lot of old camo.... and if otg, many times will wear my ghille top when cool enough...


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## DAGATOR16 (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm talking about only deer and hog hunting only.

I wear camo pants because they all have cargo pockets and mine are all several years old. The camo job is mostly faded so I really don't feel like I'm hiding under "camo". Recently, I've made most of my kills wearing a solid t-shirt (mostly gray).  Without going into too much detail, I don't think camo plays a huge roll in my hunting success. However, at one time I did believe it did. I now have better ways to spend my money (it's called a wife) lol.
Clay


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## Mosin (Sep 26, 2009)

I like the old military woodland camo and the new multicam stuff.  I've used some old British type surplus and they all seem to perform well.  Also the olive green solids do good in the palmeadows.  I like camo and I feel it gives me an advantage over deer, trukeys, and other critters that may sound an alarm that I am in the area.  Think about the squirrel barking his head off at you.  Anyway good post.


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## robert carter (Sep 27, 2009)

I buy all my hunting clothes from walmart at the end of the season when they are cheap.Not the camo in the hunting section but the off the wall stuff kids wear to school. As long as its cotton and quiet.I like lots of pockets.A compass in the pocket with your cell phone will make it tell a lie...
            I had a brown,gray and black wool shirt I killed tons of stuff with in the winter,it was warm too.As long as your clothes are dull I think your good as long as you have cover breaking your outline. Cover behind you is often better than cover in front of you specially if your in a tree.I bet shinning faces and hands have run off more deer than camo or lack of it.RC


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## rapid fire (Sep 27, 2009)

One thing I will hardly ever enter the woods without is rubber boots.  I'm not too worried about the camo, but rubber boots have saved me a blown hunt more times than I can count.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2009)

i knew this would turn into a good thread. different opinions and viewpoints are educational whether we choose to adhere to a particular idea or not. lots of good stuff here.


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