# Are you a de-evolutionist?



## VisionCasting (Aug 16, 2011)

Just curious, how do evolutionists explain this one?  Seems like evolution would favor the nature of the T-Rex rather than to evolve it into a Chick-fil-A sandwich.  Not that I'm against a Chick-fil-A sandwich or anything.


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## JFS (Aug 16, 2011)

http://news.discovery.com/animals/some-dinosaurs-evolved-from-birds.html

Still a topic of debate.


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## bullethead (Aug 16, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Just curious, how do evolutionists explain this one?  Seems like evolution would favor the nature of the T-Rex rather than to evolve it into a Chick-fil-A sandwich.  Not that I'm against a Chick-fil-A sandwich or anything.



That must have taken 6,000 years for that to happen!


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## Michael F. Gray (Aug 16, 2011)

I support your right to be wrong. Worship all the dinosaurs you wish, and as a final request, perhaps some dear soul will be kind enough to place one or two toy figures in your casket. As for me and my house, we choose to serve the true and Living God of the Bible. Incidently, he formed all that is or has lived, including those you like so well.


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## bullethead (Aug 16, 2011)

Michael F. Gray said:


> I support your right to be wrong. Worship all the dinosaurs you wish, and as a final request, perhaps some dear soul will be kind enough to place one or two toy figures in your casket. As for me and my house, we choose to serve the true and Living God of the Bible. Incidently, he formed all that is or has lived, including those you like so well.



I am glad that you believe that. Anytime you would like to provide any tangible proof to back up what you say we are all ears.


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## Ridge Walker (Aug 16, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Seems like evolution would favor the nature of the T-Rex


How do you figure?

RW


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## Gabassmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

bullethead said:


> I am glad that you believe that. Anytime you would like to provide any tangible proof to back up what you say we are all ears.



same goes for you... i always say fact isnt fact until proven wrong...
EX: scientist use to say the sun revolved around the world then they proved it wrong so that made it a fact. Next they are gonna somehow say they prove evolution then guess what it gets proven wrong and back in the circle of life.


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## VisionCasting (Aug 16, 2011)

JFS said:


> http://news.discovery.com/animals/some-dinosaurs-evolved-from-birds.html
> 
> Still a topic of debate.



So soon a study will conclude that apes evolved from man?  This theory is close to settled science fact.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

You may want to re-read that bassmaster. From what it looks like you're saying fact is only fact once it's proven wrong. Doesn't proving something wrong make it WRONG?

I'm not saying this is how it happened, I am just open minded enough to say that it COULD have happened. It seems to me that big dinosaurs require a whole lot of resources to survive. Lots of stuff to eat and water to drink. Millions of years of fewer resources made them get smaller. I'm just trying to think logically.. Not saying that did it or not.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> So soon a study will conclude that apes evolved from man?  This theory is close to settled science fact.



How are you defining de-evolution? With man and ape it looks like you're trying to say that apes are more primitive than man. How is a chicken less evolved than a dinosaur?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

Michael F. Gray said:


> I support your right to be wrong. Worship all the dinosaurs you wish, and as a final request, perhaps some dear soul will be kind enough to place one or two toy figures in your casket. As for me and my house, we choose to serve the true and Living God of the Bible. Incidently, he formed all that is or has lived, including those you like so well.



Why are you saying worship dinosaurs and toys in caskets? Does evolution mean that dinosaurs are gods?


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## bullethead (Aug 16, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> same goes for you... i always say fact isnt fact until proven wrong...
> EX: scientist use to say the sun revolved around the world then they proved it wrong so that made it a fact. Next they are gonna somehow say they prove evolution then guess what it gets proven wrong and back in the circle of life.



There is rumor that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. There are bones of dinosaurs that have been found and they have been dated to have come from the time when dinosaurs were said to exist. We can see dinosaur bones in a museum. It is as factual as it gets.

Your turn.


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## Sterlo58 (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Why are you saying worship dinosaurs and toys in caskets? Does evolution mean that dinosaurs are gods?



 

I agree, who implied that anyone was worshiping dinosaurs ?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 16, 2011)

schizophrenia comes to mind when they were writing the bible


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

And still when someone follows it and does what it tells them to do. Book induced schizophrenia.


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## ambush80 (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> How are you defining de-evolution? With man and ape it looks like you're trying to say that apes are more primitive than man. How is a chicken less evolved than a dinosaur?




These types of mistakes come from a basic misunderstanding of evolution.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

And how are monkeys and apes less evolved than humans? Different? OF COURSE. I know I'd have a hard time digesting what they eat and swinging in trees. And we're better at creating advanced technology and destroying the earth.


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

What is interesting is that even the 7 day creationists and the intelligent design folks (very different theories) believe in evolution, just on a micro-scale.  For instance, all foxes, coyotes, wolves, and dogs come from the same species.  What they deny is species change.  I once heard Dr. Behe (irreducible complexity guy) explain natural selection as a fact of nature.

I believe in evolution (to a degree), but what puzzles me, and perhaps I should study more, is how dinosaurs became extinct  about 65 million years ago through a traumatic event, probably a meteor, and still managed to evolve into birds.  Are there any theories on this?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

bullethead said:


> There is rumor that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. There are bones of dinosaurs that have been found and they have been dated to have come from the time when dinosaurs were said to exist. We can see dinosaur bones in a museum. It is as factual as it gets.
> 
> Your turn.



I'll take a whack at it.

Your facts are just as supposed as a creationists, your scientific dating techniques are fallible, the interpretations of the evidence are subject to human error, science has its limitations.  You are no closer to proving anything than a Wednesday night bible study.

But, you are as convinced that you are right as a creationist is.

So, I think I'll have a beer!  (maybe 2)


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

I know I'm not as convinced as a creationist.. I just highly doubt a creator and I'll listen to whatever other ideas someone wants to tell me... at least for a minute or two.


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## ambush80 (Aug 16, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> What is interesting is that even the 7 day creationists and the intelligent design folks (very different theories) believe in evolution, just on a micro-scale.  For instance, all foxes, coyotes, wolves, and dogs come from the same species.  What they deny is species change.  I once heard Dr. Behe (irreducible complexity guy) explain natural selection as a fact of nature.
> 
> I believe in evolution (to a degree), but what puzzles me, and perhaps I should study more, is how dinosaurs became extinct  about 65 million years ago through a traumatic event, probably a meteor, and still managed to evolve into birds.  Are there any theories on this?



Plenty.



ted_BSR said:


> I'll take a whack at it.
> 
> Your facts are just as supposed as a creationists, your scientific dating techniques are fallible, the interpretations of the evidence are subject to human error, science has its limitations.  You are no closer to proving anything than a Wednesday night bible study.
> 
> ...



Tell me in your own words (not a link to Darwin_is_the Devil.com) why you think geological or atomic dating methods are less reliable than counting back from Moses's 200th birthday?


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Plenty.



...okay, I'm all ears.  I have always heard, never studied it too hard, that underground mammals were what survived this event, and sea creatures.  This has always been a source of confusion for me.

So, if you got 'em I'd love to hear 'em.


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## pnome (Aug 16, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> Seems like evolution would favor the nature of the T-Rex rather than to evolve it into a Chick-fil-A sandwich.



Conditions change.


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## ambush80 (Aug 16, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> ...okay, I'm all ears.  I have always heard, never studied it too hard, that underground mammals were what survived this event, and sea creatures.  This has always been a source of confusion for me.
> 
> So, if you got 'em I'd love to hear 'em.



There are some small, birdlike creatures with feathers and such in the fossil record after the mass extinction.  Not all dinosaurs weighed 8 tons.


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> There are some small, birdlike creatures with feathers and such in the fossil record after the mass extinction.  Not all of them weighed 8 tons.



Right, I am aware of those, but did they survive the mass extinction, or evolve into underground mammals then birds?  Or, is the thought that some above ground animals survived, just no dinosaurs.


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## bullethead (Aug 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> There are some small, birdlike creatures with feathers and such in the fossil record after the mass extinction.  Not all dinosaurs weighed 8 tons.



Yep! The ones that could not survive the change did not and the ones that could.... did. Some, because of size and adaptation, thrived in the new world and their offspring over the next 50million years branched off to what it is today.

Maybe.....lol


But it makes sense when tied into the findings we have found over the years. Until something better or more factual comes along, I think it is the best we have to go by.


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## bullethead (Aug 16, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> Right, I am aware of those, but did they survive the mass extinction, or evolve into underground mammals then birds?  Or, is the thought that some above ground animals survived, just no dinosaurs.



Not everything perished. Sea creatures and reptiles and mammals that were better equipped to handle such a wide spread disaster made it.


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Yep! The ones that could not survive the change did not and the ones that could.... did. Some, because of size and adaptation, thrived in the new world and their offspring over the next 50million years branched off to what it is today.



So, it wasn't the t-rex then.  Problem solved....maybe....


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## ambush80 (Aug 16, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> Right, I am aware of those, but did they survive the mass extinction, or evolve into underground mammals then birds?  Or, is the thought that some above ground animals survived, just no dinosaurs.




I remember most of the information you're looking for from H.S. science class.  Here's something you might like to check out.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Evolution/Michael-Ruse/e/9780674031753?itm=6&USRI=evolution


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## ambush80 (Aug 16, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> So, it wasn't the t-rex then.  Problem solved....maybe....




Yes.  From my understanding of the evidence that I have seen, it's widely accepted that the T-rex became completely extinct 65million years ago in the K-T mass extinction (also known as the Great Flood)


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

That's just because he was too rowdy for the ark... and the Brachiosaurus (however you spell it) didn't fit.


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> I remember most of the information you're looking for from H.S. science class.  Here's something you might like to check out.
> 
> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Evolution/Michael-Ruse/e/9780674031753?itm=6&USRI=evolution




I'll put it on my list with the 95 thesis.  I hated science and only took the minimum required in high school and college (accounting major).  My eleven year old knows way more than I do about these things.  I get what you are saying, and it all makes sense to me when I think about it outside my bias towards a creator (I do believe in God).  But, the gaps are the confusing part, such as the one I described before and the cambrian explosion, etc.  It all sounds as "convenient" as saying "God did it."  But, I admit, I do not study this stuff.


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## JB0704 (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> That's just because he was too rowdy for the ark... and the Brachiosaurus (however you spell it) didn't fit.




7 day creationists say they did, but only took the young and fed them all veggies.  I am not a 7 day creationist and don't buy it, but they have theories too.  It all hinges on the inaccuracy of dating methods, but they can't explain why dino bones are buried deeper than modern mammal bones. ID folks buy evolution (to an extent) and have an "old earth" approach, I am more in line with them.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me in your own words (not a link to Darwin_is_the Devil.com) why you think geological or atomic dating methods are less reliable than counting back from Moses's 200th birthday?



Because man invented them.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

What else has men invented? Story books?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> What else has men invented? Story books?



That logic supports my point.


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## CAL (Aug 17, 2011)

At Waukula Springs about 20 miles south of Tallahassee Fla.there are  bones from prehistoric animals on display there.The bones were found like 150 feet or maybe more down inside the spring which is the head waters of the Waukula river.This particular spring is tremendous to me with boat trips over the top of it.I guess this makes the spring very old too.Just saying


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## ambush80 (Aug 17, 2011)

CAL said:


> At Waukula Springs about 20 miles south of Tallahassee Fla.there are  bones from prehistoric animals on display there.The bones were found like 150 feet or maybe more down inside the spring which is the head waters of the Waukula river.This particular spring is tremendous to me with boat trips over the top of it.I guess this makes the spring very old too.Just saying



The rock layer from where those bones is as old as the bones. Sometimes rocks get pushed up by lava and earthquakes and such so sometimes they appear to be at a different height than surrounding rocks.  Rocks 150 feet down would be pretty old, don't you think?  

Imagine how long it would take to make a foot of dirt.  The plants and animals die, rot and turn into dirt.  Some of it washes away and some of it stays.  More plants and animals die, rot and become dirt.  It keeps piling up and piling up.  Some of the animal bones get trapped in the dirt and buried.  How long do you think it would take for that dirt to get buried so deep that it turned into rocks?


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## ambush80 (Aug 17, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Because man invented them.



Do you think that counting back from Moses' 200th birthday is a more accurate way to age things than any scientific method?

How would you suggest measuring how far away stars are?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 17, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Do you think that counting back from Moses' 200th birthday is a more accurate way to age things than any scientific method?
> 
> How would you suggest measuring how far away stars are?



The suppositions that Moses was real, and his recorded birthday was correct are as great as the assumptions made by science that the various experiments and theories are completely accurate. I would say that they both have some potential for accuracy. I believe completely in one, and parts of the other.

I would not know where to start measuring how far away stars are. I am an Earth Scientist.


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## bullethead (Aug 17, 2011)

People will believe things that they want to hear . They will gravitate to places that hold like-minded people to reinforce those beliefs.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 17, 2011)

bullethead said:


> People will believe things that they want to hear . They will gravitate to places that hold like-minded people to reinforce those beliefs.



If you are applying that to science as well as religion than I agree.


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## ambush80 (Aug 18, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> The suppositions that Moses was real, and his recorded birthday was correct are as great as the assumptions made by science that the various experiments and theories are completely accurate. I would say that they both have some potential for accuracy. I believe completely in one, and parts of the other.
> 
> I would not know where to start measuring how far away stars are. I am an Earth Scientist.




Do you care to find out how they do it?


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> If you are applying that to science as well as religion than I agree.



Absolutely. It goes for everything. It is the reason I frequent the AAA forums, although I often wonder which one of the "A's" some people are that post here more frequently than the C/J forum.


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## gtparts (Aug 18, 2011)

Not a de-evolutionist. That house of cards (body of evolutionary "knowledge") is coming down slowly, if not in an instant. Much of what was thought to be true about evolution has had to be rethought or scrapped. Eventually, we may have a concise and accurate picture of the results from that scientific inquiry. Whatever that may look like, I have every confidence that God ordained and sustains (or not) the process, as He chooses.


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Not a de-evolutionist. That house of cards (body of evolutionary "knowledge") is coming down slowly, if not in an instant. Much of what was thought to be true about evolution has had to be rethought or scrapped. Eventually, we may have a concise and accurate picture of the results from that scientific inquiry. Whatever that may look like, I have every confidence that God ordained and sustains (or not) the process, as He chooses.



Where are the unquestionable leaps and bounds pointing towards the Bible and God?


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> The suppositions that Moses was real, and his recorded birthday was correct are as great as the assumptions made by science that the various experiments and theories are completely accurate. I would say that they both have some potential for accuracy. I believe completely in one, and parts of the other.
> 
> I would not know where to start measuring how far away stars are. I am an Earth Scientist.



Ted, if it was announced today that the Tomb of Jesus was found, scientific evidence was conclusive that DNA matched that of Mary, The Shroud of Turin, and the Holy Grail( which they also found that same morning) the overwhelming majority of Believers would be ringing the bells and dancing in the streets proclaiming that everything they ever thought is now true. The SAME methods used in Science would be 10,000% TRUTH to them because now it gives them the answers they want. The difference is that those same methods have been used over and over and over again to try to prove the Biblical things but it has not turned out as the believers want and NEED it to, so therefore it is flawed. They use those same scientific methods to guide and explain everything else that effects them in the daily life, but with religion it is flawed.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Ted, if it was announced today that the Tomb of Jesus was found, scientific evidence was conclusive that DNA matched that of Mary, The Shroud of Turin, and the Holy Grail( which they also found that same morning) the overwhelming majority of Believers would be ringing the bells and dancing in the streets proclaiming that everything they ever thought is now true. The SAME methods used in Science would be 10,000% TRUTH to them because now it gives them the answers they want. The difference is that those same methods have been used over and over and over again to try to prove the Biblical things but it has not turned out as the believers want and NEED it to, so therefore it is flawed. They use those same scientific methods to guide and explain everything else that effects them in the daily life, but with religion it is flawed.



You are generalizing a bit there BH. Besides that would never happen. Science is too political to allow a story like that to hit the presses. I don't need science to believe what I believe anyway.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Do you care to find out how they do it?



That would be a cool lesson.


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> You are generalizing a bit there BH. Besides that would never happen. Science is too political to allow a story like that to hit the presses. I don't need science to believe what I believe anyway.



If any of those or anything talked about in the Bible or anything to do with religion individually were "proven" by the scientific methods we use today for everything else the overwhelming majority of believers would sing the praises. You know LOTS of believers would jump on the science bandwagon.

So your saying it would be a scientific conspiracy to hide all that evidence? That does not say much for your peers or field of work. Can you give us some examples of that happening?

I don't need anything that does not back up my beliefs either.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> If any of those or anything talked about in the Bible or anything to do with religion individually were "proven" by the scientific methods we use today for everything else the overwhelming majority of believers would sing the praises. You know LOTS of believers would jump on the science bandwagon.
> 
> So your saying it would be a scientific conspiracy to hide all that evidence? That does not say much for your peers or field of work. Can you give us some examples of that happening?
> I don't need anything that does not back up my beliefs either.



My peers are left to their own devices and beliefs. Most of them don't really understand what science is anyway. Like you, they believe that science proves things. This is not what the scientific method states it does or actually does.

I think Christians would only sing praises to God.

Chronic Lyme Disease. The insurance companies have rallied the medical community to say it does not exist so they don't have to pay for ongoing treatments. A recent study that sampled 10 Alzheimer’s brains found the DNA of the Lyme Disease bacteria in 7 out of 10 Alzheimer’s brains (70%). It is also linked to Lou Gherig's disease, Parkinson’s, MS and more. They want to keep us in the dark so they don't have to pay.

http://www.underourskin.com/


Global warming springs to mind. It may be happening, but it has probably been happening since we started exiting the last ice age. Science for political position. Sustainability is a great buzzword. 

My source here is that Al Gore is still riding around in a private jet, and has a huge carbon footprint.


The Japan nuclear incident. Nothing to see here, move along please! I work with several health physicists. They knew this was a serious deal the moment it happened. Have you heard? They are equating it to Chernobyl now. Full scale melt down and irradiation.

My source here is the radiological clean up scientists that I work with.


Science does back up my beliefs in the bible, specifically the laws of probability. They say that the chances of evolution happening are so slim that they NEVER would occur.

You may think we Christians are running around with blinders on, but we probably know more than you suspect, about science, religion, and everything else. Laugh at us if you want. It matters not. (in fact it is prophesied)


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> My peers are left to their own devices and beliefs. Most of them don't really understand what science is anyway. Like you, they believe that science proves things. This is not what the scientific method states it does or actually does.
> 
> I think Christians would only sing praises to God.
> 
> ...



Ins Co, Al Gore and Japan nuclear disasters are not science trying to suppress anything. I agree with you that they are all real examples of how people get bamboozled daily by the media and big corporations but there isn't one of those things that isn't known or a surprise.

The laws of probability are probably flawed(you know, being man made, scientific, and held within the realm of humans like you dismiss every other scientific means used to debunk religion) so saying that evolution would never occur is probably not accurate.

I think Christians and all religious people are as ______(insert any word here) as anyone else so I do not think more or less of Christians or any religious people.

There are lots of things prophesied in EVERY religion, so much so that those laws of probability say that because the prophesies were made after the fact, ESPECIALLY THE OBVIOUS ONES, they are GONNA pan out!

There are gonna be doubters...........well no duh!


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Let's prophesy that people are going to say that this thing we just made up isn't real... BINGO.


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## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Let's prophesy that people are going to say that this thing we just made up isn't real... BINGO.



Wicked Accurate!


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

It took me re-reading my post to realize this... 

My parents go to church all the time..  More than 2 or 3 times a week. They both lead bible studies and what not. They are active in their church and seem to me to have a relationship with something that they feel is god. No one here can say they do or they don't. 

I recall my father saying many times in the last several years that I live there that my mother was a "prophet." Right before I moved out I realized how much of a pessimist she was. Whatever. I called her out on it and she seemed to make changes, at least as far as it pertained to me. The fact was, that in her pessimism, she would say something was going to happen.. AND IT DID.. So this prophet junk kept on.. In a nice, joking manner..

What I see from that and can relate to my prior statement, that also seems completely logical, is that my mother realized reality in many cases. She used her own mind to figure what could very well happen in the future.. AND IT HAPPENED. Who would have thought that due to past experiences, people can predict what might very well happen in the future. I'm not saying that my mother, or anyone else in particular is one, but con artists live off of this.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Ins Co, Al Gore and Japan nuclear disasters are not science trying to suppress anything. I agree with you that they are all real examples of how people get bamboozled daily by the media and big corporations but there isn't one of those things that isn't known or a surprise.
> 
> The laws of probability are probably flawed(you know, being man made, scientific, and held within the realm of humans like you dismiss every other scientific means used to debunk religion) so saying that evolution would never occur is probably not accurate.
> 
> ...



Eyes wide shut.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Let's prophesy that people are going to say that this thing we just made up isn't real... BINGO.



Bango, Bongo????????????


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> It took me re-reading my post to realize this...
> 
> My parents go to church all the time..  More than 2 or 3 times a week. They both lead bible studies and what not. They are active in their church and seem to me to have a relationship with something that they feel is god. No one here can say they do or they don't.
> 
> ...



Your Momma has the seein' gift. Most people don't.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

In the words of Adam Sandler. Momma said, momma said, momma said.... 

Or do they? I always thought it was nothing but a joke.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> In the words of Adam Sandler. Momma said, momma said, momma said....
> 
> Or do they? I always thought it was nothing but a joke.



They are wiser than you know.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Maybe so..... huntinfool, you think? LOGICALLY speaking, not that god can do anything... but from what you have heard from me...

Still though.. because they meet your ideas in some way, they may be wiser than I know. What I had said they both worship their dog..... which my dad does in some ways.. You probably wouldn't say that... Just as you wouldn't say that about me. He has one (which was my dog to begin with).. now I have 10.. I don't worship them, but I love them almost as much as my wife and daughter.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 19, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Maybe so..... huntinfool, you think? LOGICALLY speaking, not that god can do anything... but from what you have heard from me...
> 
> Still though.. because they meet your ideas in some way, they may be wiser than I know. What I had said they both worship their dog..... which my dad does in some ways.. You probably wouldn't say that... Just as you wouldn't say that about me. He has one (which was my dog to begin with).. now I have 10.. I don't worship them, but I love them almost as much as my wife and daughter.



Nah, I don't think you understand. My mother is Sicilian. She might say something totally off the wall, and I have learned to go with it. A month later, she has totally predicted the future, and the only reason I am good is because I have learned to listen. It is uncanny to say the least. Women, particularly Italians and Scots have the gift of seein'. They can do it, we just hafta listen. Ain't no logic in it.


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## bullethead (Aug 19, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Eyes wide shut.



Says the Agent to Neo.....


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 19, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Nah, I don't think you understand. My mother is Sicilian. She might say something totally off the wall, and I have learned to go with it. A month later, she has totally predicted the future, and the only reason I am good is because I have learned to listen. It is uncanny to say the least. Women, particularly Italians and Scots have the gift of seein'. They can do it, we just hafta listen. Ain't no logic in it.



So you're saying particular races of women have the ability to see the future?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 19, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Says the Agent to Neo.....



My cover is blown!!!


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## ted_BSR (Aug 19, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> So you're saying particular races of women have the ability to see the future?



I think all women have it (women's intuition). I think certain cultures are more likely to encourage it thus exercisiing the gift and making it stronger.


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## TTom (Aug 19, 2011)

BTW there is no de evolution, only evolution.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 19, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I think all women have it (women's intuition). I think certain cultures are more likely to encourage it thus exercisiing the gift and making it stronger.



Is this a supernatural gift? 

Ted, this is now two things in this thread from you that make even less sense to me than godly things you believe. Women with the ability to see the future and not most of your peers don't know what they're talking about..


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Is this a supernatural gift?
> 
> Ted, this is now two things in this thread from you that make even less sense to me than godly things you believe. Women with the ability to see the future and not most of your peers don't know what they're talking about..



Gift from God. Other critters have it too. You know like when a deer just KNOWS you are there?

Well you must think I am completely nuts then!!

I think it is weird that most people are OK with organ transplants.  Different strokes I guess.

BTW - I did not say my peers don't know what they are talking about. They absolutely do, and they are some very intelligent folks. I said "Most of them don't really understand what science is anyway." They treat it like it is a god.


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## Michael F. Gray (Aug 20, 2011)

Your point is well taken. I am old enough to remember when Darwin's Theory of Evolution was introduced into the public schools as just that;  a "theory". What you rarely hear is the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say. Darwin became a Christian before his death and renounced the foolishness propagated today that bears his name. I personally disproved the big bang theory. I placed a large quantity of plastic explosives,[In a law enforcement training school], under an old 1961 Ford automobile. Now I was just positive after the big bang I'd end up with a bright shiny new car. Amazingly ,and much to my disappointment all I had after the big bang was a scattered pile of twisted wreckage. Now it would take a HUGE amount of FAITH for me to believe in the big bang theory. Common sense tells me where creation is there must be a CREATOR. He is the true and living God of the Bible. Hope you figure it out one day. You can stay in school till you have more degrees than a thermostat, and it won't do you one bit of good on judgment day. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Your point is well taken. I am old enough to remember when Darwin's Theory of Evolution was introduced into the public schools as just that;  a "theory". What you rarely hear is the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say. Darwin became a Christian before his death and renounced the foolishness propagated today that bears his name. I personally disproved the big bang theory. I placed a large quantity of plastic explosives,[In a law enforcement training school], under an old 1961 Ford automobile. Now I was just positive after the big bang I'd end up with a bright shiny new car. Amazingly ,and much to my disappointment all I had after the big bang was a scattered pile of twisted wreckage. Now it would take a HUGE amount of FAITH for me to believe in the big bang theory. Common sense tells me where creation is there must be a CREATOR. He is the true and living God of the Bible. Hope you figure it out one day. You can stay in school till you have more degrees than a thermostat, and it won't do you one bit of good on judgment day. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment.



I like your big bang experiment!

As for Darwin, only he knows what went down on his deathbed. There is little evidence to support the claim that he renounced his theory and returned to the Christian faith before he died.

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/darwin.html

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, "He is the true and living God of the Bible."


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Your point is well taken. I am old enough to remember when Darwin's Theory of Evolution was introduced into the public schools as just that;  a "theory". What you rarely hear is the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say. Darwin became a Christian before his death and renounced the foolishness propagated today that bears his name. I personally disproved the big bang theory. I placed a large quantity of plastic explosives,[In a law enforcement training school], under an old 1961 Ford automobile. Now I was just positive after the big bang I'd end up with a bright shiny new car. Amazingly ,and much to my disappointment all I had after the big bang was a scattered pile of twisted wreckage. Now it would take a HUGE amount of FAITH for me to believe in the big bang theory. Common sense tells me where creation is there must be a CREATOR. He is the true and living God of the Bible. Hope you figure it out one day. You can stay in school till you have more degrees than a thermostat, and it won't do you one bit of good on judgment day. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment.



Did prayer make that ford like new again once the explosion did not?

I can see why you believe so much in what is written in the Bible because it apparent that concerning Darwin you believe other rumors, urban legends and lies without checking the facts.



> Common sense tells me where creation is there must be a CREATOR



What/who created the creator?


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I like your big bang experiment!
> 
> As for Darwin, only he knows what went down on his deathbed. There is little evidence to support the claim that he renounced his theory and returned to the Christian faith before he died.
> 
> ...



Ted I also agree with that statement. The Bible is about the only place you'll find him as God.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Did prayer make that ford like new again once the explosion did not?
> I can see why you believe so much in what is written in the Bible because it apparent that concerning Darwin you believe other rumors, urban legends and lies without checking the facts.
> 
> 
> ...




Bullethead - I don't think you understand prayer. It is not a way of getting what you want done. God answers prayer in one of three ways. Yes, no, or wait. In the end, His will is done.

The creator has always existed, and always will. Logic won't help you in trying to grasp it.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Ted I also agree with that statement. The Bible is about the only place you'll find him as God.



Then you do not believe He is the one true god and that He is alive, because you do not believe the bible is true.

I think we have gotten off topic. Apologies to the OP.


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Bullethead - I don't think you understand prayer. It is not a way of getting what you want done. God answers prayer in one of three ways. Yes, no, or wait. In the end, His will is done.
> 
> The creator has always existed, and always will. Logic won't help you in trying to grasp it.



Ted - I understand prayer just fine. People pray every second of every minute for something they want done. A 50/50 chance turns out to be God's will or a Miracle in the eyes of the person praying.
So the answer to praying for the ford to be renewed was obviously not an immediate "yes", it might or might not be a "no" but it could be a definite maybe as it still might happen..... 

But "you guys" argue that NOTHING can always exist or has always existed.......except when it is your creator. Gotcha.


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Then you do not believe He is the one true god and that He is alive, because you do not believe the bible is true.
> 
> I think we have gotten off topic. Apologies to the OP.



Like any good book, the characters within are alive and well and true within those pages.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Ted - I understand prayer just fine. People pray every second of every minute for something they want done. A 50/50 chance turns out to be God's will or a Miracle in the eyes of the person praying.
> So the answer to praying for the ford to be renewed was obviously not an immediate "yes", it might or might not be a "no" but it could be a definite maybe as it still might happen.....
> 
> But "you guys" argue that NOTHING can always exist or has always existed.......except when it is your creator. Gotcha.



What? Gotcha? I have never argued what you suggested. You are grasping at straws now.

Prayer is another matter, and your idea of it is wrong. Prayer (for me) is a way to foster the relationship I have with God. I am usually thanking God for my blessings, and asking forgivness for my sins. When I pray for things to happen, it is almost always for other people that have a need.


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> What? Gotcha? I have never argued what you suggested. You are grasping at straws now.
> 
> Prayer is another matter, and your idea of it is wrong. Prayer (for me) is a way to foster the relationship I have with God. I am usually thanking God for my blessings, and asking forgivness for my sins. When I pray for things to happen, it is almost always for other people that have a need.



Prayer is personal and how you pray might not be a fair representation of how everyone prays. Many people ask for things for others and for personal gain and for darn near anything one can think of. people pray for miracles to happen right before their eyes and some claim they have had those miracles happen. A brand new vehicle emerging from the blast is not beyond God's power so I just wondered if a Big Bang could not create a new vehicle and a prayer to God did not make it new again, neither happening really does not prove anything other than the wishful thinking of the person blowing it up. So WHAT was the point of the story?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Prayer is personal and how you pray might not be a fair representation of how everyone prays. Many people ask for things for others and for personal gain and for darn near anything one can think of. people pray for miracles to happen right before their eyes and some claim they have had those miracles happen. A brand new vehicle emerging from the blast is not beyond God's power so I just wondered if a Big Bang could not create a new vehicle and a prayer to God did not make it new again, neither happening really does not prove anything other than the wishful thinking of the person blowing it up. So WHAT was the point of the story?



I am not sure. It wasn't my story. I believe it was an example of what didn't happen, and what had very very very very little chance of happening. The statistics are probably close to even on the car being "reborn", and the universe coming together from a "big bang".

I think Carl Sagan agrees.


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## bullethead (Aug 20, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I am not sure. It wasn't my story. I believe it was an example of what didn't happen, and what had very very very very little chance of happening. The statistics are probably close to even on the car being "reborn", and the universe coming together from a "big bang".
> 
> I think Carl Sagan agrees.



Yeah I can see your point but I wonder what are the stats on a God giving new life to an old car from the depths of an explosion? Equally Improbable? I mean if he didn't want to I can see that but maybe the unseen force behind that explosion didn't want to either?

I realize we are going back and forth about the ridiculousness of it all.....maybe that is my point. One guy wanted (sarcastically)a minor explosion to rejuvenate a car and another guy hoped(sarcastically) for a God to do it. One is as unlikely as the other unless we up the scale considerably on the explosion.


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## bzb (Aug 24, 2011)

So, by the same (bad) logic, our computers are designed poorly since they fit in our hands rather than the size a typical warehouse nowadays.

Why so obsessed with size?



TTom said:


> BTW there is no de evolution, only evolution.



This +1

Although, have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"?


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## vowell462 (Aug 25, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> What? Gotcha? I have never argued what you suggested. You are grasping at straws now.
> 
> Prayer is another matter, and your idea of it is wrong. Prayer (for me) is a way to foster the relationship I have with God. I am usually thanking God for my blessings, and asking forgivness for my sins. When I pray for things to happen, it is almost always for other people that have a need.



Not all pray for things like this. I fished a bass tournament with an old friend a couple years ago ( born again christian) who spent the whole the last two hours of the tournament praying for another fish. We had four, and needed five for a limit. I knew this guy and how he acted before so it threw me for a loop. We lost the tournament. Point is, not all pray with good intentions such as Ted, this was obviously over a want to win, get a name for himself, and to put cash in his pocket. Thats the last time I went fishing with him. And we lost. The next tournament, right before, I sacrificed a chicken, drew a pentagram in the dirt, and drank an 18 pk and won the tournament. ok...last part isnt true. I never win tournaments...


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## ted_BSR (Aug 26, 2011)

bzb said:


> So, by the same (bad) logic, our computers are designed poorly since they fit in our hands rather than the size a typical warehouse nowadays.
> 
> Why so obsessed with size?
> 
> ...



I love that movie!

"Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes"


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