# Vice President of Elite Archery is in some trouble!



## lungbuster123

All this came from Illinois Department of Conservation. The first guy and last guy are Elite Archery Pro-Staffer's and Garret Armstrong is the Vice President of Elite Archery. 







"SPRINGFIELD, IL –   Charges have been filed against three individuals after an 11-month investigation by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources (IDNR) Office of Law Enforcement in a deer poaching case. The three men were cited for numerous Wildlife Code violations including the illegal take of a potential state-record whitetail deer, and now face charges through the Grundy County State’s Attorney’s Office

“Our Conservation Police Officers are tasked with the mission of protecting the public and our natural resources and they do it effectively and vigilantly,” said IDNR Director Marc Miller. “I am proud of the hard work of the IDNR law enforcement staff and have a warning to those who choose to hunt illegally:  We are watching.

“The IDNR Office of Law Enforcement has zero tolerance when it comes to poaching matters,” said IDNR Conservation Police Chief Rafael Gutierrez. “Our Conservation Police will continue to protect our natural resources so that legal sportsmen get every opportunity they deserve.”

The investigation focused on the unlawful harvest of a 36-point non-typical deer scoring 261 5/8 and valued at $35,000. Charges were filed after a thorough investigation with  assistance from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, Wyoming Game and Fish Department, Alberta Sustainable Resources Department, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, Missouri Department of Conservation, and Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

The following individuals were cited on charges related to unlawfully taking a total of 24 deer in Illinois and Canada over a 10-year period.  Specific charges were filed as follows:

Christopher Kiernan (age 45, of Minooka, IL)
11 counts of hunting without permission of landowner and being an accessory to the charge
19 counts of unlawful possession of illegally taken deer
5 counts of hunting with invalidated permit
5 counts of unlawfully taking of deer
2 counts of falsifying harvest records
1 count each of:  Failure to report harvest on the same day as killed, Fail to tag deer as required

Garret Armstrong (age 31, of Avon, NY)
9 counts of hunting without permission of landowner and being an accessory to the charge
8 counts of hunting with an invalidated permit
4 counts of unlawful possession of illegally taken deer
2 counts of unlawfully taking of deer
1 count each: Failure to tag deer as required, Failure to report harvest as required,  Falsifying harvest record

 Larry Smith (age 49, of Williamsburg, Ontario, Canada)
1 count each of the following:
Hunting without permission of landowner
Hunting with invalidated permit
Failure to tag deer as required
Unlawful possession of illegally taken deer
Unlawfully taking of deer
Failure to report harvest as required
Falsifying harvest record"


----------



## lungbuster123

Here is a picture of the amazing buck Christopher Kiernan killed. What a shame...


----------



## oldenred

lungbuster123 said:


> Here is a picture of the amazing buck Christopher Kiernan killed. What a shame...



If I seen that buck in the woods and my tags were filled I'd take him too and go print me a new harvest record!


----------



## nickf11

I got pictures of that buck before it was even publicized. I know one of Chris' buddies from MI. What a shame to hear it was taken illegally.


----------



## HuntinDawg89

I'm confused by the statement that it was valued at $35,000.  Was this deer the property of a deer farm?  If not, how do you put a dollar figure, especially such a high value, on a wild deer?  Did he sneak onto a high fenced property and take it there?  If not then that statement makes no sense.


----------



## toolmkr20

HuntinDawg89 said:


> I'm confused by the statement that it was valued at $35,000.  Was this deer the property of a deer farm?  If not, how do you put a dollar figure, especially such a high value, on a wild deer?  Did he sneak onto a high fenced property and take it there?  If not then that statement makes no sense.




I was wondering the same thing when I read the post.


----------



## Grey Man

Wow. That sucks all around. Id love to hear what they did. Sounds like they went on someone's property without permission and killed it? Maybe? Id like to hear more, but I do appreciate it being posted. Thanks for that.


----------



## timothyroland

It's all over AT. He was trespassing in sine kind of company property according to the reports they had.


----------



## rfeltman41

Yep all over AT, he snuck onto a huge facility where they pump treated waste water onto land that the waste facility owns. The land is not fenced in so people come onto it from other adjoining land. supposedly huge bucks all over it.


----------



## golffreak

Deer hunting has become a dirty, greedy business.


----------



## oldenred

golffreak said:


> Deer hunting has become a dirty, greedy business.



Hunters, landowners and the Govt made it this way. If it was like the old days this would not have been an issue. In places like Maine there are a ton of places to hunt. If it's not posted you can hunt it and if it is posted usually all it takes is talking to the landowner. Never is there cash is involved! Greed is ruining the sport. There is never a lease in Maine, never heard of them before comming to GA.  And although QDM is not practiced in Maine the deer are monsters compared to what you get in GA. Higer scoring racks are taken every year in Maine compared to here and that's without QDM!


----------



## RMelton

HuntinDawg89 said:


> I'm confused by the statement that it was valued at $35,000.  Was this deer the property of a deer farm?  If not, how do you put a dollar figure, especially such a high value, on a wild deer?  Did he sneak onto a high fenced property and take it there?  If not then that statement makes no sense.



In several of the articles I've read in the last few years. The states are putting price scale together for  fining poachers. The higher the score the higher the fine. I now they do it in Ohio. Professional poaching has become a problem. People are poaching Trophy deer and selling the racks. Sounds crazy, but you know what the world is coming to.


----------



## dvmill

Wow! Over a ten year period? Why did they wait so long?


----------



## jbp84

how can you prove something like that 10 years ago


----------



## lungbuster123

dvmill said:


> Wow! Over a ten year period? Why did they wait so long?





jbp84 said:


> how can you prove something like that 10 years ago



On AT and the EAF they are saying they think the 10 year's is stuff they found while back tracking not something they have been watching for 10 year's.


----------



## Scrub Buck

So much for their logo.  "Respect the Game"  Glad I never spent any money on their products.  It took ten years to make it hurt and hurt hard.  Wildlife violation fines are a joke and have been a joke for many years.  Why not wait?  It will sting alittle bit more now.


----------



## Johnbob_3

I suppose the valuation of the buck at $35,000 is based on the fact that wildlife are the property of each given state unless they are farmed animals.  A hunting license gives a person permission to harvest animals as long as the method of harvest is legal and complies with the hunting regulations.  Trespassing is illegal everywhere.  I have not read about it on AT, but if the the hunter had already filled his tags, what in the heck was he doing out there in the field hunting?  Perhaps he was doe hunting and greed got the better of him?  I don't know...it is all just a shame and it is jerks like that who give all hunters a black eye in the view of the general public.  I hope they throw the book at them and revoke all hunting privileges for the lot of them everywhere they are convicted.


----------



## nickf11

He was not doe hunting. He was hunting THAT deer. Big story about it in bowhunter magazine.


----------



## Chris Horsman

Another example of greed and one up manship that has become corporate hunting . If they had shot a doe doing the same thing, it would never have made the news. Horn porn at its level best. Just another company not to do business with.....


----------



## Lake_and_stream

all i can say is ouch ...oh and his wife is gonna be maaaaaaaddddddd


----------



## nickf11

They're products are junk anyway. I hear the bows make a nice TWANNNGGG!! when you release an arrow. . Not sure what the need was to blur the face. He's been published in Bowhunter and there's a huge article about how he killed that deer. It's no secret.


----------



## lungbuster123

nickf11 said:


> They're products are junk anyway.  He's been published in Bowhunter and there's a huge article about how he killed that deer. It's no secret.




I wouldn't go that far with it. My Judge along with any other Elite ive owned have been great bow's. As far as the blurred face just trying to make sure the mods don't have any reason to close my thread.


----------



## outdooradventures44

Just Plain Dirtbags


----------



## huntaholic

Greed !  What s shame !


----------



## nickf11

lungbuster123 said:


> I wouldn't go that far with it. My Judge along with any other Elite ive owned have been great bow's. As far as the blurred face just trying to make sure the mods don't have any reason to close my thread.



I'm just messin'. I'm sure they are good bows. I've never shot one personally, that's just what someone told me. He's partial to Mathews like me.

And I made a mistake, it was actually in North Americal Whitetail where I read it and he shot it with the GT 500. 
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/trophybucks_naw_giant_0710/


----------



## nhancedsvt

I don't know much about the story but what I can't figure out is how they know exactly where he killed the deer. Most of his counts come from hunting on property without permission. If they didn't physically catch him in the act, then obviously he ran his mouth too much and that's his mistake. Had he been smart, that buck would have supposedly been killed miles from where it was and on property he could legally hunt...deer tend to travel a long ways during the rut anyways.

I also don't understand why you folks are dogging the man for shooting the buck after he had already filled his buck tags. None of you have any clue what you would do if that buck walked out and you didn't have a tag in your pocket. I'd like to say I'd pass on him, but in all actuality, I'd probably be flinging an arrow.


----------



## lungbuster123

nhancedsvt said:


> I also don't understand why you folks are dogging the man for shooting the buck after he had already filled his buck tags. None of you have any clue what you would do if that buck walked out and you didn't have a tag in your pocket. I'd like to say I'd pass on him, but in all actuality, I'd probably be flinging an arrow.



Not saying I would be able to hold off if I saw something like that either, but I would still be breaking the law just like he did. He took the chance of doing something illegal and getting caught and he did. No different then people calling a theif names.


----------



## nickf11

According to his story in the link I posted, he was hunting THAT deer. So he intended to kill it, knowing he was tagged out. He was buck hunting with no buck tags left. If he knew he was tagged out why was he in the woods? That's why people on here are "dogging" him. But I do agree with you nhance. There's no way they could have physically caught him in the act for all the hunting without permission charges. Seems like that's what the law does everywhere, try someone on thirty-something counts in hopes that they can find him/her guilty on ONE. Ridiculous.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish

Here's an update with more details at the web links below:  



http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ilty-poaching-state-record-whitetail-and-more 


Illinois Hunter Pleads Guilty to Poaching State Record Whitetail—And More

April 23, 2013 




> Remember Illinois hunter Chris Kiernan? Back in November of 2009, he killed an Illinois state-record nontypical whitetail, a 36-point buck giant that netted scored 267-3/8 inches. This week, Kiernan pleaded guilty in Grundy County (IL) Circuit Court to illegally taking not just that buck but two others as well, according to this story in the LaSalle News Tribune.












http://newstrib.com/Main.asp?SectionID=54&SubSectionID=176&ArticleID=28281 

Hunters plead guilty in deer poaching case 

4/17/2013


----------



## bubbabuck

nhancedsvt said:


> I don't know much about the story but what I can't figure out is how they know exactly where he killed the deer. Most of his counts come from hunting on property without permission. If they didn't physically catch him in the act, then obviously he ran his mouth too much and that's his mistake. Had he been smart, that buck would have supposedly been killed miles from where it was and on property he could legally hunt...deer tend to travel a long ways during the rut anyways.
> 
> I also don't understand why you folks are dogging the man for shooting the buck after he had already filled his buck tags. None of you have any clue what you would do if that buck walked out and you didn't have a tag in your pocket. I'd like to say I'd pass on him, but in all actuality, I'd probably be flinging an arrow.


I Most Certainly have a Clue!.... I have been in that situation and never considered taking the shot !.....The buck that walked up was a Midwest Stud and I just enjoyed him as he walked by......I also know without a doubt my hunting buddy JT would not consider taking the shot......for that matter I know members on here that I would lay good money on not taking the shot!......Its all in how much respect you have for the animal and the sport......these guys obviously put more importance on what they are posing with in a photo........glad they were caught!


----------



## swampstalker24

nhancedsvt said:


> I don't know much about the story but what I can't figure out is how they know exactly where he killed the deer. Most of his counts come from hunting on property without permission. If they didn't physically catch him in the act, then obviously he ran his mouth too much and that's his mistake. Had he been smart, that buck would have supposedly been killed miles from where it was and on property he could legally hunt...deer tend to travel a long ways during the rut anyways.



Na, had he been smart he would not have been poaching deer.


----------



## Grey Man

It took a year and a half to decide this?


----------



## satchmo

nhancedsvt said:


> I don't know much about the story but what I can't figure out is how they know exactly where he killed the deer. Most of his counts come from hunting on property without permission. If they didn't physically catch him in the act, then obviously he ran his mouth too much and that's his mistake. Had he been smart, that buck would have supposedly been killed miles from where it was and on property he could legally hunt...deer tend to travel a long ways during the rut anyways.
> 
> I also don't understand why you folks are dogging the man for shooting the buck after he had already filled his buck tags. None of you have any clue what you would do if that buck walked out and you didn't have a tag in your pocket. I'd like to say I'd pass on him, but in all actuality, I'd probably be flinging an arrow.



Wow!!!!You are kidding right? I wouldn't shoot and I have been in that situation many,many times over the last 30 plus years hunting. I would not fling an arrow. I am not a theif like these guys.


----------



## JustUs4All

HuntinDawg89 said:


> I'm confused by the statement that it was valued at $35,000.  Was this deer the property of a deer farm?  If not, how do you put a dollar figure, especially such a high value, on a wild deer?  Did he sneak onto a high fenced property and take it there?  If not then that statement makes no sense.



UP North they fine and call for restitution based upon the value of the animal.  Anything can be valued.  There are many companies that would pay many thousands of dollars for the antlers alone.  



nickf11 said:


> There's no way they could have physically caught him in the act for all the hunting without permission charges. Seems like that's what the law does everywhere, try someone on thirty-something counts in hopes that they can find him/her guilty on ONE. Ridiculous.



Not ridiculous at all.  If there is no evidence of the crimes, is no case.  
If an officer brings a charge without evidence the officer could be charged with a crime.  He can also be sued by the person he charged falsely.
Officers who bring charges without evidence generally loose their positions quickly because the employing agencies do not want the legal exposure.


----------



## SWWTV

Not good at all for those guys, they should have known better.


----------



## HuntinDawg89

nhancedsvt said:


> I also don't understand why you folks are dogging the man for shooting the buck after he had already filled his buck tags. None of you have any clue what you would do if that buck walked out and you didn't have a tag in your pocket. I'd like to say I'd pass on him, but in all actuality, I'd probably be flinging an arrow.



That is why I WILL NOT hunt deer once my buck tags are filled.  I have been in that situation many times (no buck tags left and lots of season left) and I just start thinking about waterfowl or football because I don't want to put myself in the situation where I'm in a tree and the biggest buck I've ever seen or likely will ever see comes by and I've got no buck tags.  Sorta like a guy who goes to a bar alone with no intention of cheating on his wife and then a beautiful woman hits on him...the best thing is to not put yourself in that situation.

I don't think any of that applies to this situation as it appears he was willfully breaking the law by setting out to kill this buck with no buck tags left, trespassing, etc.  This wasn't just a moment of weakness if the facts are anything close to correct.


----------



## Jim Thompson

bubbabuck said:


> I Most Certainly have a Clue!.... I have been in that situation and never considered taking the shot !.....The buck that walked up was a Midwest Stud and I just enjoyed him as he walked by......I also know without a doubt my hunting buddy JT would not consider taking the shot......for that matter I know members on here that I would lay good money on not taking the shot!......Its all in how much respect you have for the animal and the sport......these guys obviously put more importance on what they are posing with in a photo........glad they were caught!




yep and yep

make a decision in advance on what you will do when it happens and then when it does happen dont change that decision because of what was standing in front of you.

I was there when you had the same scenario play out in front of you up here in 08 or so...and yep I poured your first whiskey that eve after you made the right decision.

then I giggled like a school girl for the next few years about the situation


----------



## 100hunter

19 counts of unlawful possession but only 5 counts of unlawful taking.  All over a ten yr span.  I don't get it.  Sounds like their being railroaded.  If they did it illegally they should be punished.  I think all hunting laws should be reviewed.  For example, if hunting over bait is illegal then hunting over dear attractants should be illegal also.  And who came up with that 30 min before sun up and 30 min before sun set rule?  How many of you have broken that law?  Don't answer that.


----------



## whchunter

*Unequal*



100hunter said:


> 19 counts of unlawful possession but only 5 counts of unlawful taking.  All over a ten yr span.  I don't get it.  Sounds like their being railroaded.  If they did it illegally they should be punished.  I think all hunting laws should be reviewed.  For example, if hunting over bait is illegal then hunting over dear attractants should be illegal also.  And who came up with that 30 min before sun up and 30 min before sun set rule?  How many of you have broken that law?  Don't answer that.



Unequal Justice:

I'm not here to pass judgement on these guys but I would wager they will get off cheaper than most. The worst will probably be the damage to their business which will probably wind up in bankruptcy and they will start over under a new name within a few years.
What I'd like to see is equal fines across the state. You only have to read GON to see how different fines are handed out in different counties.
We'll never see justice in fines toward all men. White collar crime vs Blue collar is always different. The rich always have it better and enough money will buy you out of anything. Politicians are immune for the most part from anything.


----------



## flatsmaster

All i can say about it is ..... Those that have true character and respect for the laws as well as the wildlife will make the right decision and hope for a encounter the following season .... the high point of ur hunting life by killing this beast would be unenjoyable bc youll always have to lie about it forever .... but if hes willing to trespass to hunt that kind of says it all ...


----------



## southernboy2147

not reading all of these but just scanning through.. aint there a law to were if you broke a law over 7 years ago unless its something like murder they cannot charge you with it? (like the judge that was videoed beating his daughter and the daughter didnt release the video until after 7 years so he couldnt be charged).

also the 35,000 dollar price tag.. places like bass pro and cabelas will pay you to have a replica mount done of the deer. so that might be what there talkin about


----------



## Millcreekfarms

HuntinDawg89 said:


> I'm confused by the statement that it was valued at $35,000.  Was this deer the property of a deer farm?  If not, how do you put a dollar figure, especially such a high value, on a wild deer?  Did he sneak onto a high fenced property and take it there?  If not then that statement makes no sense.



Trophys of that size are worth serious cash,high scoreing racks have high value


----------



## HuntinDawg89

southernboy2147 said:


> not reading all of these but just scanning through.. aint there a law to were if you broke a law over 7 years ago unless its something like murder they cannot charge you with it? (like the judge that was videoed beating his daughter and the daughter didnt release the video until after 7 years so he couldnt be charged).
> 
> also the 35,000 dollar price tag.. places like bass pro and cabelas will pay you to have a replica mount done of the deer. so that might be what there talkin about



You are talking about a statute of limitations.  Yes, I would think that would apply to some of the older cases but laws probably vary by state.

I'll bet you Bass Pro and Cabelas would not pay a $35,000 fee for you to allow them to (pay to have someone) make a replica.

What this guy is accused of doing is WRONG and needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law if proven in court, but that $35K value is extremely arbitrary and high IMO.  Are there really racks out there that have sold for that kind of money?  I know folks will buy them for those traveling big buck shows but I can't imagine them paying $35K for one...and even if they would that wild deer didn't have that value to the state.


----------



## HuntinDawg89

100hunter said:


> And who came up with that 30 min before sun up and 30 min before sun set rule?  How many of you have broken that law?  Don't answer that.



It is 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 after (not before) sunset.  I don't know where it comes from but I have no problem with it.  I know when I was growing up I don't think the deer hunters I knew paid any particular attention to it...not that they necessarily broke it or did so on purpose, what I mean is they didn't check the sunrise/sunset time every day and double check it again like waterfowl hunters do.  I became a lot more aware of the sunset time after I started hunting waterfowl.  Of course I usually hunt in the woods where you can't see to shoot ethically all the way up to 30 minutes after sunset anyway, but on the edge of a field you could on certain nights.


----------

