# cross breeds or not



## alabama bird dog (Mar 16, 2010)

i have noticed that alot you hunters use cross breed dogs and most have birddog in them do cross dogs finish out earlyer than pure breed dogs


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## MULE (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't think crosses finish out faster than a purebred dog. Certain breeds start later than others and if they are in the cross they would be slower to start. Really has to do with the breed and not the cross. 

People use birddogs cause they are a silent, have a very good nose and some have a lot of range.


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## REDMOND1858 (Mar 17, 2010)

Every dog i have is a cross. They will start just as early as any purebred, papered dog. The only thing a purebred dog has that a cross dont is a fancy piece of paper. Cant remember the last time i ever seen a piece of paper hangin off a hogs ear. Most the time a crosssbred dog is bred to meet a hunters expectations, while sometimes purebred dogs are bred up just to keep a fancy name. Not sayin this is always the case, so all yall purebred dog folks dont get offended


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## kornbread (Mar 17, 2010)

REDMOND1858 said:


> Every dog i have is a cross. They will start just as early as any purebred, papered dog. The only thing a purebred dog has that a cross dont is a fancy piece of paper. Cant remember the last time i ever seen a piece of paper hangin off a hogs ear. Most the time a crosssbred dog is bred to meet a hunters expectations, while sometimes purebred dogs are bred up just to keep a fancy name. Not sayin this is always the case, so all yall purebred dog folks dont get offended


i agree the best dog i have is a crossed up bmc/plot and he was baying good on pigs at 3 months old and hunting finding hogs at 8 months.now i have 2 bird bull cross puppys and they are turning on .


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## LanceColeman (Mar 17, 2010)

Even though I was raised in La. running pure catahoulas for hogs, the one thing I love about hog dogs is the crosses.

Tell me another type of dog hunting where a half breed or 3/4 thisx1/4 that finished dog will sell for a grand??

I don't like the registering of dogs. I mean look at what it's done to coon hunting. Guys can have b&Ts that tree like mad!! But if it's not papered?? They'll give it away...... and on the flip side they'll keep a B&T thats registered and not half the dog. Them papers can NOT hunt.

I can honestly say I believe registering dogs is NOT a good thing. Don't get me wrong when I say this because I know for fact there are still ALOT of Good hog hunting catahoulas out there. But all this registering and *show* breeding and breeding for pretty colors has watered the "hunt" down in catahoulas an awful lot. My step dad used to tell me, grab the ugliest cur dog out of the bunch and you'll have ya best hunter. Not always the truth (I've had some georgeous ones that hunted like mad, but I've had more ugly dawgs find hogs LOL!)

Hog doggers are one of the few out there that are more intrested in leaving the "hunt" in there dogs instead of getting it papered. They want to breed a good hunter to a good hunter and who cares wether it's registered or not!?!

Catahoula "Cur", Leapord "cur", Kemmer "cur", mt. "Cur", Black mouth "cur".... The word CURs original definition was the same as "mongrel" and "mutt". Meaning mixed breed. But leave it to us humans to think we can refine it to become pure.

That said the three best hog dogs I ever owned were a (3/4catahoula,1/4 pit) a (1/2 Mt.cur,1/2 plott) And a (1/2 BMC,1/2 catahoula)


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## catch-n-tie (Mar 17, 2010)

best hog dogs i ever saw were 1/4-1/2 bulldog cross with catahoulas. the bulldog blood will get you an early starting dog that carries a big set...the catahoula blood gives you brains,nose,range,legs...dont need any fancy names or papers,it is not rocket science.


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## big country rnr (Mar 17, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> Even though I was raised in La. running pure catahoulas for hogs, the one thing I love about hog dogs is the crosses.
> 
> Tell me another type of dog hunting where a half breed or 3/4 thisx1/4 that finished dog will sell for a grand??
> 
> ...



Great post brother! TOOK the words right outta my mouth!


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## buddylee (Mar 17, 2010)

Most people either cross dogs because they have 2 good dogs and want some puppies or as a means of blending two different bloodlines in hopes of getting desired qualities from both sides such as bird/bull and cat/bull. Problem with crosses is that the pups can throw back several generations so you might not get the desired traits you want. Thats why you have breeds cause folks way back found what traits they liked and breed towards it.


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## Scott Cain (Mar 17, 2010)

*Let the dog make the papers!*

I will have to disagree with the whole mix dog better deal! If you have the right breed of dog no matter what it may be shouldnt have to mix the breeds. EX. If you have a dog that hunts well but lacks grit take the time to find a dog within your breed that will make up for the weekness in your own dog. If you cant find it perhaps you are hunting the wrong breed! Mixed dogs do sometimes make great fdogs it is true,but most of the time it blows up on the next generation,so you have to start over again. where as a breed most dogs are going to throw the same basic traits. The word cur was originally used in england and had nothing to do with the breed of the dog it was short for curtail wich means to cut short! animals that had tails ie. cattle sheep swine were taxed in old days so were dogs so curring the dogs tail kept the owner from paying taxes on the dogs! That is were the word started! Know your dogs. Scott.


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## hoghunter08 (Mar 17, 2010)

i have seen just as many purebred papered dogs be great dogs as i have crossbred dogs. having papers doesnt matter but just because its a crossbred doesnt mean it will be good either. i agree with mr. cain stay in a certain breed until u find the type of dog that suits u. its all about what u want or what u have access to. alot of people may not have access to a ukc plott or ksba kemmer cur all they may have is a dog from the pound often a heinz 57 lol ( which sometimes do make excellent dogs to) i have had a few of those myself. i like the registered dogs because its easier to keep up with there bloodlines so u can continue improving the breed...but thats just my opinion. i have seeen great ones in both


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## Florida Curdog (Mar 17, 2010)

Mine have some rednose in them and their bad to the bone.


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## run_pits_4_hogs (Mar 17, 2010)

my bay dog is cross...hound for the legs and nose...and little bit of bmc-bull for grit


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## Tyson Wilkerson (Mar 17, 2010)

alabama bird dog said:


> i have noticed that alot you hunters use cross breed dogs and most have birddog in them do cross dogs finish out earlyer than pure breed dogs[/


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## MULE (Mar 17, 2010)

Scott Cain said:


> I will have to disagree with the whole mix dog better deal! If you have the right breed of dog no matter what it may be shouldn't have to mix the breeds. EX. If you have a dog that hunts well but lacks grit take the time to find a dog within your breed that will make up for the weekness in your own dog. If you cant find it perhaps you are hunting the wrong breed! Mixed dogs do sometimes make great dogs it is true,but most of the time it blows up on the next generation,so you have to start over again. where as a breed most dogs are going to throw the same basic traits.


 I'll have to agree with this one 100%. 

I know a man that is an excellent hunter and has hunted a lot longer than I. But he can't breed a dog to save his life, due to the fact it always has this and that in it. It ALWAYS blows up. They are entirely too inconstant. Sure for the first generation or two they work, after that they fall apart.  

Don't get me wrong I too have had A LOT of good crossed dogs over the years. If your just going to hunt and don't want to ever breed them I'd say sure go for it, their cheaper as puppy's without a doubt.


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## hogrunner (Mar 17, 2010)

My BMC have Foundation papers and them papers help me make sure they find hogs.  If your gonna spend your money make sure you get good bloodlines that are proven.  When I first started buying dogs I tried everything and someone told me to stick with a foundation registered BMC and now I'm hooked.  My 10 yr old Okeenokee Cowboy goes back to Weatherford's Ben and he throws no culls in his offspring.  I have people all the way from Virginia to Florida bringin me females to breed to.  When I bought him 3 yrs ago I had no idea what I was buying, I just wanted a finished dog to lead my pack and then after finding out more about the breed and my dog those papers mean everything.  I'm not saying a mixed breed dog can't be good but you usually can't rely on them to carry the traits on and on like purebreds.


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## koyote76 (Mar 17, 2010)

your right papers dont find hogs, but they help find out info about the dog your buying or breeding.

if your trying to line breed or breed quality dogs in general papers help. when you cross up a dog you most likely out of the whole litter going to have a low success rate in what your goals of the breeding orignally intended for. and you really cant go any where on the crossed up dogs but one generation.

when you have crossed up dogs you arent getting half of half of the best qualities of both breeds. you could end up with the worst qualites of both breeds. you cant accurately breed for a lil bit of a hounds nose and a curs brain and expect to get the master dog. it just doesnt work. you may get a few but your going to get a lot of junk in between.

if i was goin to cross breed i would make sure that both dogs come from good stock and that they are line breed so that all the bad genetic traits that those breeds have tendency to carry over are hopefully been culled out of the gene pool. and i would make sure that the breeds compliment each other rather than have two breeds that are hunting dogs, but are drastically diffrent than each other.

the whole purpose of papers is too keep track of the breeding, they arent inteneded for bragging rights or more money off puppies, even though thats what they have become.
i wont breed to papered dog becasue its paperered. you should have the breeding becasue of the dogs has qualities you want to be carried over in breeding.

you might have a jam up cross breed dog, but how sure are you that he can produce more of his/her kind? and when someone has to buy a puppy its comforting to know it came from good stock. be it papers or good refrences to that breeder if that dog is not a papered dog.

not knocking the crossing of breed, ive hunted with great ones, just saying its not always the answer everyone hopes it to be


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## curdogsforhogs (Mar 17, 2010)

Too many opinions on what makes a great hog dog to get a definitive answer..comes down to what you like and works where you hunt..you can go through 100s of dogs sometimes before you find a great dog sometimes even more.


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## koyote76 (Mar 17, 2010)

curdogsforhogs said:


> Too many opinions on what makes a great hog dog to get a definitive answer..comes down to what you like and works where you hunt..you can go through 100s of dogs sometimes before you find a great dog sometimes even more.



yah so give me spec and bill so i can end the search.


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## LanceColeman (Mar 17, 2010)

Seems the majority decision here is "I've seen good on both sides" Those that use papered dogs are a bit more "pro papered" those that do not use them are a bit LESS "pro" papers.

I wouldn't say i am Tee TOTALLY against registering dogs. I do think people take it entirely too far and hurt the majority of breeds though. .....But I do think it's taken too far....... I think it blows the price out of the water and just because you know it's mammas, mammas daddy's granpa don't mean it's no better or worse dog then the 1/4 pit next door. And like I said..... Look at Don Abney Catahoulas..... specifically bred for "show"?? what the?? bred for colorations?? a catahoula is NOT a show dog! it's a working dog, a hunting dog, a cow dog, a hog dog, a coon dog! YES they come in georgeous colors.. but a proven one should be bred to a proven one..... NOT a pretty one to a pretty one until we're all stuck with the delimma of how to STOP getting double glass eyed  white faced blue laces that are all deaf.

Thing to remember when you talk breeds and papers, and line breeding... it's how all breeds came about. line breeding and mixing breeds for a purpose. All "pure breeds" orignated from breeding this to that then breeding it back to it's daddy. for a specific purpose..... i.e.  bull arabs in Australia specifically for hogs.


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## REDMOND1858 (Mar 17, 2010)

Whats yalls definition of a cross bred dog?? Taking two lines of the same breed and crossing them or taking two totaly different breeds and crossing them?? In my opinion, i shouldnt have to do a years worth of reaserch and cross my fingers to get a hog dog, as for instance catahoulas. Id much rather take my two proven dogs out the back yard breed them, and know that i will have a litter of hog dogs no matter what the breed. Another thing is, when i think of a catahoula or blackmouth, I think of a dog baying the heck out of a hog. . . . . . . . . in a pen. When i think of a crossbred dog, i think about a dog catching hogs in the woods. Too many people have ruined good breeds for "bay pens" "color" and "glass eyes". I know alot of you swear by purebred dogs but i would rather stick to breeding my mutts and catching hogs than have to worry about whether im going to breed the correct line and so on. Thats just my opinion


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## curdogsforhogs (Mar 17, 2010)

Think i will have to pass...Speck doesnt have many more years before she gets retired Im afraid..


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## tompkinsgil (Mar 17, 2010)

cornbread whats that brindle dog you have in your avatar , good lookin dog


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## MULE (Mar 17, 2010)

REDMOND1858 said:


> Whats yalls definition of a cross bred dog?? Taking two lines of the same breed and crossing them or taking two totaly different breeds and crossing them?? In my opinion, i shouldnt have to do a years worth of reaserch and cross my fingers to get a hog dog, as for instance catahoulas. Id much rather take my two proven dogs out the back yard breed them, and know that i will have a litter of hog dogs no matter what the breed. Another thing is, when i think of a catahoula or blackmouth, I think of a dog baying the heck out of a hog. . . . . . . . . in a pen. When i think of a crossbred dog, i think about a dog catching hogs in the woods. Too many people have ruined good breeds for "bay pens" "color" and "glass eyes". I know alot of you swear by purebred dogs but i would rather stick to breeding my mutts and catching hogs than have to worry about whether im going to breed the correct line and so on. That's just my opinion


My idea of cross bred dogs is bird/bull, bull/hound, cat/bull, ect, ect.. I think florida curs is kinda grey area. There are some guys that have been breeding them for years and year so some may breed true I don't know. 

My Catahoula's have been breed for years and years for finding hogs, not bay pens. BUT, your right a lot of Catahoula's and BMC's have been. Every time I breed a gyp I KNOW I'm going to produce hog dogs. Now some maybe a little rougher than others and some may hunt further than others but just about the entire litter make it in some form or fashion. You take the ones with whatever your looking for and breed back to increases whatever your desired dog should be. I don't have to wonder. I've not had that same luck with crosses, after the second and third generation.

Take for instance I've got two litter mate brothers. Both are great dogs. One's rougher than the other one. One's ranges out further and longer. Depending on what I'm looking for hunt or gritt would be depending on which dog I breed too.


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## sghoghunter (Mar 17, 2010)

Im tryn a cross out of my female which is walker pit cross and a full kemmer which has to be the best dog I have ever hunted with.Also have another litter of walker pit cross we gonna try too.


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## hogrunner (Mar 17, 2010)

I put my papered BMC in a bay competition in Abbeville and he was baying but kept looking back and the judge started taking points away.  I finally fiqured out what he was doing, he is a woods dog and wants to catch the hog but too smart to risk it without a catchdog, so he was looking for the catch dogs to come in so he could help catch.  My BMC'S are no pen dogs, they want to hunt!!


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## buddylee (Mar 17, 2010)

Papers are only as good as the person filling them out. Papers are faked every day.


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## gin house (Mar 18, 2010)

sghoghunter said:


> Im tryn a cross out of my female which is walker pit cross and a full kemmer which has to be the best dog I have ever hunted with.Also have another litter of walker pit cross we gonna try too.



 hd76, i see who has the brains in this outfit, i see sghoghunter says the the best dog hes ever hunter with is a full kemmer, a squirell dog you call em,  them kemmers show you the hogs,  you need one????    ramble on. lol lol


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## big country rnr (Mar 18, 2010)

I still have NALC reg catahoulas ,REG plotts,grade plotts,And cross breed dogs! They all do there job in certain ways . Sometimes depends on the area and hogs ! Can be awesome dogs and trash in every breed ! You need to match the dog wit how you hunt and the areas you hunt!


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## Scott Cain (Mar 18, 2010)

If you look at breeding dogs like building a brick house. the genetic meterial you have to work with is like bricks the more of the same size and  shape bricks you can get together the better your house will be. Same with a dogs the more of the same genetics you put together the better chance the dog will turn out like you are planning. Line breeding and inbreeding are the tools you use in putting your genetics together. Put to dogs together that are different breeds you have every imaginable kind of brick in the world to try an work with . You are just making things harder on your self!That being said some times a mix works and produces a good hunting dog ,but the odds in that dog reproducing a good dog are not very good! Even breeding out to a different line of dogs with in your own breed can ruin what you have. there are far more variables to breeding than we have time or space to talk about here, breeding is a science and even the best most educated folks out there are not 100% .there are folks who will disagree with this but facts dont cease to exist just because yhey are ignored! Scott


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## sghoghunter (Mar 18, 2010)

gin house said:


> hd76, i see who has the brains in this outfit, i see sghoghunter says the the best dog hes ever hunter with is a full kemmer, a squirell dog you call em,  them kemmers show you the hogs,  you need one????    ramble on. lol lol



Come on gin don't drag me in yalls tv dinner time show.


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## alpha1 (Mar 18, 2010)

Get sean kelleys book it will explain everything:     Hog hunting with dogs:  the hogdoggers bible


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## Florida Curdog (Mar 18, 2010)

alpha1 said:


> Get sean kelleys book it will explain everything:     Hog hunting with dogs:  the hogdoggers bible



If this guy is  so great why did he have to use everybody else's hog pictures to make his book??????????????


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## sghoghunter (Mar 18, 2010)

alpha1 said:


> Get sean kelleys book it will explain everything:     Hog hunting with dogs:  the hogdoggers bible


What made him so good that he knows enough to write a book?Out of all the forums that he is a member of I still have yet to see a pic of him and a hog.On parkers site all he talks about is them parker curs.


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## Jester896 (Mar 18, 2010)

sghoghunter said:


> Also have another litter of walker pit cross we gonna try too.



how are these turning out for you so far?


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## sghoghunter (Mar 18, 2010)

Jester I put them outside of a pen with a pig and they showed interest but thats it for now they need more time to grow.


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## Jester896 (Mar 19, 2010)

sghoghunter said:


> Jester I put them outside of a pen with a pig and they showed interest but thats it for now they need more time to grow.



Keep me posted...might have to try one of those


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## alpha1 (Mar 19, 2010)

*florida cur dog*

Florida cur dog I never said shawn was great I said the book was great reading and the dog I have from him is great.  Have you read the book, hunted with him or ever tried one of his dogs out?  If not, then maybe you need to rethink your position.  Or do your buddies tell you what to say?


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## WolfPack (Mar 19, 2010)

This is a fantastic mutt....The Bocat!  Get a good female catahoula that is gritty on hogs.......then just find someone with a "happy" male Boxer.....let them get jiggy with it in the back of the truck with a camper top, wait for those pups and then toss them all into the pen to see which ones chase the hogs and which ones don't for the culling process.  Now I must go into hiding again.....gonna have some haters following up on me, lol.


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## Florida Curdog (Mar 19, 2010)

alpha1 said:


> Florida cur dog I never said shawn was great I said the book was great reading and the dog I have from him is great.  Have you read the book, hunted with him or ever tried one of his dogs out?  If not, then maybe you need to rethink your position.  Or do your buddies tell you what to say?



The way you talk about him he is the greatest thing since tracking systems.  I have never hunted with him and don't want to, I wouldn't waste my money on a book with that title, I never tried any of his dogs I use my own and some I get from my buds    Nobody tells me what to say. I call it like I see it and am not afraid to speak my mind.  He might be a good guy I don't know and don't really care


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## curdogsforhogs (Mar 19, 2010)

Bayed my CatxPit pups today on a rough hog..kinda blew their mind when she ran out after them and grabbed them up and shook them..hadnt never had that happen but they learned a valuable lesson..bayed loose enough to hold her with provoking a charge..Bella got a poke in her hip but kept at it... Ran out a smaller boar and they quickly tested its wear withall and new he wasnt the beast that tried to eat their lunch and moved on in and started their taste test..once he ran they shut him down and got catchy quick...pups all looked good for 7 mo,,good natured and getting big


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## Florida Curdog (Mar 19, 2010)

They sound like keepers.


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