# HELP! Broken Tap!



## seaweaver (Nov 6, 2009)

in the Barrel!
I was at the last step in tapping the front sights on 3 rifles when the freaking tap broke on the very last hole.
There's was nothing to grab. I thought due to the hard nature of the tap I could crush the remains w/ a punch and extract the crumbs. This seemed to work to a point but then the cutters seem to be embedding themselves.
Anyone have an idea as what to do?
the thing is too hard to cut w/ a bit...
thanks 
cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 6, 2009)

Shorten the barrel???

Drill it out from the other side????

That's a hard one, the smaller taps don't give you much to work with. 

See if these folks have one in the size you need. Supposedly better than the "ez-out" type of extractors.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/Tap-Extra...91316886&cm_mmc=Didit-_-SEM-_-ItmDtl-_-PypClk


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## seaweaver (Nov 6, 2009)

I have .25 above legal length now!
I think I see how those work but I'm beyond that now. I may keep changing angles w/ the punch to try to fracture it out. I was wondering if I could distemper it to drill it out but I'm afraid of the heat on the barrel.
cw


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## Backlasher82 (Nov 6, 2009)

They make extractors specifically for broken taps. It's been a while since I used one but I believe it had four "fingers" that slipped into the grooves in the tap and then you back the tap out by turning the tool.

A Google search should turn it up. They work a whole lot better than trying to break it or drill it out.

Another option is a Dremel with a tiny carbide bit. And a VERY steady hand. I don't know if Dremel sells bits small enough for your needs but you can find them where they sell porting supplies for  motorcycle cylinder heads.

Edit: Here's a link for the tap extractors http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=15612/Product/BROKEN_TAP_EXTRACTOR


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## Hammack (Nov 6, 2009)

well, the question is can you redrill the hole and retap to a larger size?    The only options I can think of at this time is going to be either finding a tungsten carbide bit or burr small enough to cut it out, or possibly finding someone local with an EDM that can burn it out.  Only problem with the EDMis that it could heat up the end of the barrel and kill the heat treatment.  here is another option if all else fails.  You can have a smith turn down the end of the barrel an thread it as you would for a muzzle break, and then use red loctite and install a threaded collar, and then re-drill and tap.


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## seaweaver (Nov 6, 2009)

Yes that's the same as NOYDB found . My tap was 6/32..so it was 3 finger and small for the front sight. If I cannot get it out w/o a lot of damage I may just JB weld the sight to the buggered hole which will provide a good bite and live w/ one true screw.
I have read of good results of JB alone but would of course prefer mech. fastening.
I have ground down a 1/4 chisel to fit the hole but I cannot temper the edge to  the hardness to crack the tap. It remains too soft and keeps rolling and not sending the shock into the tap.


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## seaweaver (Nov 6, 2009)

Hammack said:


> well, the question is can you redrill the hole and retap to a larger size?    The only options I can think of at this time is going to be either finding a tungsten carbide bit or burr small enough to cut it out, or possibly finding someone local with an EDM that can burn it out.  Only problem with the EDMis that it could heat up the end of the barrel and kill the heat treatment.  here is another option if all else fails.  You can have a smith turn down the end of the barrel an thread it as you would for a muzzle break, and then use red loctite and install a threaded collar, and then re-drill and tap.



tungsten carbide bit might work but the bur might be the real answer as the barrel chucked in a vise would allow the bur to cut straight. Right now I think the bit would bounce around.
This occurred on my 336 30/30 which I intend to use w/a low power scope. I still wanted the sight for the finished gun even though it is not mandatory for the intended use.
The .35 is intended for a Ghost ring and I would have been really mad had it broken in it. 
cw


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## boneboy96 (Nov 6, 2009)

I feel your pain !


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## fishnguy (Nov 7, 2009)

carbide endmill will get it out!


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## seaweaver (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm going to try shooting it w/ liquid CO2 or propane to shock freeze it. w/ that and cycles of heat I might get some movement.

I'm trying to to this all in house. is it possible to use a carbide endmill in a drill press w/ a slow setting and a deep chuck bite on the bit?

cw


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## rayjay (Nov 7, 2009)

Could you move back and d&t two new holes and have the front sight base still cover up this hole ?


This is the kind of thread that I would like to show to people that say " I want to become a gunsmith ".

When something like this happens on your own gun your stomach feels like it's going to fall out. On a customer's gun your heart nearly stops.


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## killitgrillit (Nov 7, 2009)

Take a good center punch, somthing that is sharp to a point and try that on the flutes of the tap, take a good heavy brass or similiar hammer at hit it.
 I've gotten several 10-32 and 1/4-28 taps out like this.
 Take small pieces at a time don't try to break the whole thing out at once.
 Normally if you can get one of the flutes broke off, you then can take a scripe and pick the rest out.


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## Hammack (Nov 7, 2009)

one thing remember that is the end of your BARREL  the last thing your bullet touches before impact.  I would not be so quick to start beating the fire out of it with punches trying to break it up as you might cause problems same goes with the heating etc...  metal expands and contracts with heating and cooling if the tap is expanding then so is the end of the barrel.


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## NOYDB (Nov 7, 2009)

Think it might get a bit hot at the range when multiple shots are fired? There just might be a fair amount of "beating" when the explosion in the chamber goes off.

As long as it's properly supported so you don't bend it, assuming a really large hammer and gorilla.


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## Hammack (Nov 7, 2009)

NOYDB said:


> Think it might get a bit hot at the range when multiple shots are fired? There just might be a fair amount of "beating" when the explosion in the chamber goes off.
> 
> As long as it's properly supported so you don't bend it, assuming a really large hammer and gorilla.



A barrel will not get hot enough to damage the barrel by firing it.  It can by heating it if you get it too hot.  Also when you start using a pointed punch like a center punch it is not that hard to deform the end of a barrel.  I've seen it done a couple times actually trying to bust a broken tap just like this situation.


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## seaweaver (Nov 8, 2009)

I got it out!
The hot cold thing worked. I did not apply heat too long and kept it small and tight. 
the tap was a 6-32 and the idea of a new set of holes would have worked but these barrels are 16.25 and I was at the barrel bands so there was zero room.
In the future I will dis temper the tap for the last passes so that it is not as brittle.
I started all w/ a single hand turn w/ the tap in the drill press so the alignment was true as the hole. Then through a sequence of "cold" grinding the tap down to create a "blind" or end Tap.
This was the 3rd and final round....and again the last hole of six!
I slowly worked this up to a n 8-32( on the bad hole only) and all the front sights are mounted now.
These are all my guns(well, one is the boy's) and they will stay w/ me a while. One I was going to sell as a "spikehorn" as there are always fells this time of year looking for a gift...but I started playing w/ it prior to cutting the stock down and decided I needed it. Then I decided I needed another in  .35...
Thanks all for the replies.
cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 8, 2009)

Good to hear.

Elbow grease and perseverance usually works.


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## Twenty five ought six (Nov 8, 2009)

NOYDB said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> Elbow grease and perseverance usually works.




and a bigger hammer,



Old engineering solution.


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## seaweaver (Nov 8, 2009)

well some times that's all that is required!

Here the shorties.
The boy's 3030
and My new truck guns, 3030 and .35
There are screws missing, and a nasty fitting recoil pad that will be replaced and stock shortened. I think my ghost ring set up on the .35 might work w/ the original post height as it is located on a higher section of the barrel.
I have worked all the triggers and rounded the hammers on these and they are lightning fast to cycle. The boy's gun is deadly accurate and I cannot wait to get these new ones to the range.


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## RWK (Nov 8, 2009)

Look for a machine shop with a EDM machine that will do the job with no damage.


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## NOYDB (Nov 8, 2009)

Did you shorten the tubes also?


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## seaweaver (Nov 8, 2009)

yes. I cut them at the receiver ends as there is less work involved. These were all standard 336 20".
It is pretty neat how handy they are in thick cover or in a tree climber.
cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 8, 2009)

They're pretty short to begin with. But they do look/work good when shortened further. On my 336s I've changed to synthetic stocks, lightened up the trigger and added big loop levers.


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## seaweaver (Nov 9, 2009)

Is the synthetic much lighter?
I thought about Big loops, but hugging the coast as we are we rarely wear gloves....and you cannot do the John Wayne trick as easy!
One of these days is a straight stock fall into my possession I'll try the procedure for straightening the tangs and levers.
If you have not rolled the hammer tops you might look at how much resistance is in them. The extra distance the bolt pushes the hammer back is much farther than what is required to lock it back.
I was amazed at how much easier it was to cycle once I removed that hard corner on the hammer.
cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 9, 2009)

Synthetic is perhaps a bit lighter, but it dosen't feel much different weight wise.  I use synthetic for weather resistance.

If I quit taking my meds I might put a tri-rail on one and add a light, laser and otherwise hang stuff on it for a tactical lever gun.

If you get the chance and can get a pic of the rounding you do on the hammers. I'd like to see that. Sounds like something I'd like to try. But I'd like to see one before attempting it.


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## gtparts (Nov 9, 2009)

I know it is late, but jewelers use Fordham power units with hand pieces, as well as diamond burrs to make and repair jewelry. Talk with a local jeweler or call Hans @ JFF Supply in Doraville.


Jff Jeweler Supply
5269 11 Bufford Hwy
Doraville, GA 30340
800-443-3191 

That "cat" of yours can be "skinned" any number of ways. Sometimes it helps to think out of the box.

gtparts


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## Jranger (Nov 9, 2009)

RWK said:


> Look for a machine shop with a EDM machine that will do the job with no damage.



Yup! Disintegrate the tap in a matter of seconds. I've seen it done firsthand many times.


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## mike bell (Nov 9, 2009)

I need a marlin butt stock if yall got any extras laying around


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## seaweaver (Nov 10, 2009)

NYOB I'll get you some pics of the Hammer.

Mike I might have one. 
Got anything to trade on it?
I need a powder thrower...
My In Law hunts on Buttermilk Rd 10 miles from Millen and I could send it up w/ him.

cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 10, 2009)

Ok, thanks.


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## seaweaver (Nov 10, 2009)

You can do this in place w/ some tape covering vital areas from filings. Some folk don't.
The SS on the bottom has not been relieved like the gun on top. I could have taken more off but was delighted w/ the results so I stopped. If you hold down the hammer and cycle the lever you experience was a perfect world would be...but that hammer has to come back some how other than a thumb. In doing this you can also see the amount of over travel which is removed during the round over. The great thing about doing it in place is you can feel your results immediately, and see the required travel distance.
cw


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## NOYDB (Nov 10, 2009)

Thank you for posting the info and pics. Another project!!!


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