# What is a revelation? What is the revelation?



## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

quote]Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.Quote. (Quoted from another tread.)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Not the Revelation from Jesus Christ, but the "OF" Jesus Christ.


Can I ask? I read the above as Paul saying "What I know is from knowing and understanding the spiritual significance ( the revealed reality and significance) of Jesus. Would some agree even slightly with my reading? 

The knowing of the mystry of who Jesus is and what Jesus is about is all the revelation Paul needs?

What say you? A revelation not "from"Jesus or the Spirit, but "of" Jesus and the Spirit?

Know Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God is all Paul needs to animate him as an Apostle. 

Knowing Jesus, or the Revelation of Jesus Saviour and "all" falls and or rises into place. "Revelation is in and the Knowledge of HIM"!!!!!???

If I was to say, "For the revelation of Jesus Christ, you and I can be certain, without  even a speck of doubt, that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church." Would I be somehow out of line...? Why? Why not?


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## StriperAddict (Jul 13, 2012)

Not out of line at all.
Allow me to ask... when such knowledge "came" to you, through a faithful witness, through the study of the word, thru a sermon, who knows... or cares; but wasn't there a time where "the lights got turned on" (to quote bro Israel) and you KNEW that you KNEW this to be truth?

And can you honestly attribute that to your own strength, or groping, digging, when somehow the process was there, used of faithful ones carrying bits of truth... sowing seed,
and then the harvest came to light in your heart?

That a revelation.  A shewing fourth (pardon my King James), an eye opened, _a truth coming to light in a very real act of God, not of ourselves._


It's from God, using the foolishness of the message preached to convict, save, render alive... you name it, him who believes.

You didn't buy it, didn't have all the apologetic ducks in a row...

but your heart came alive to that truth at some time.

Remember those times looking at the blackboard wondering if you'd ever get that equation the teacher is chaulking there? And then >poof<, you got it?!  In a sort of the same way, that's a revelation, albiet a mathematical one, 
where the one from the gospel is both spiritual and knowledge... and so much better b/c of it's results... 
the righteousness of Christ embedded within, carring you the rest of your days, and causing that Life within to be poured out.

I'll start with that.  Any helps??


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## Ronnie T (Jul 13, 2012)

In Galatians 1 (and 1Corinthians 2) Paul makes it clear that the things he is teaching came to him, not from a man or a Bible, but from God Himself.
As a minister of the Gospel, that is not so for me.....  Except, I have God's inspired words(written Gospel of Christ), and I have God's Spirit in me.  

Paul and the other apostles spoke and taught things as God gave them utterance.
That's obviously not happening today, hence everyone has their own spiritual 'truths' and 'convections'.

Today, God's revelation is found in His preserved word.


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## formula1 (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re:*

Simply put, Jesus Christ is The Revelation.

I can conjour up plenty of things to entertain my mind and say God has spoken, but the still small voice of the Holy Spirit constantly confirms His Word through the Revelation of Christ in my own heart.  The is no fear of Revelation when tested amd proved!  God is still speaking today, we just have to learn to hear!  God Bless!


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Not out of line at all.
> Allow me to ask... when such knowledge "came" to you, through a faithful witness, through the study of the word, thru a sermon, who knows... or cares; but wasn't there a time where "the lights got turned on" (to quote bro Israel) and you KNEW that you KNEW this to be truth?
> 
> Answer: In truth I always knew God and Jesus to be the truth and that the Holy Spirit was a means to "a real place" where real people walked and heared God calling. Only I knew I was not exactly at that place because I had problem hearing, problem making out things, problem with deciphering what I have come to know is  the Spirit of God's Kingdom. I knew there was a "place", but I knew not to get there.
> ...



Ever consider why Paul is never a windbag to anyone? Why Paul never leaves you but that you are either at rest or at peace or downright worried? I believe that Paul, like other saints, has the revelation of Jesus Christ--ALL OF IT. Even in just his bit of "our Saviour Crucified" Paul himself growns for knowing sensually and spiritually all of creation and The Creator very intimately.

Simply Paul revelation that which put scales on his eyes and droped them off to his new vision is the simple revelation of Jesus Christ-who he is and what he is about. All the ducks follow in a row after that. In this revelation the purpose of the Law is set to bloom of itself, without effort or effortlessly as when winter turns to spring without man willing it.


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## StriperAddict (Jul 13, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Ever consider why Paul is never a windbag to anyone? Why Paul never leaves you but that you are either at rest or at peace or downright worried? I believe that Paul, like other saints, has the revelation of Jesus Christ--ALL OF IT. Even in just his bit of "our Saviour Crucified" Paul himself growns for knowing sensually and spiritually all of creation and The Creator very intimately.


 
Very well said.  But such intimacy doesn't happen overnight. It comes with moments we draw near, and He answers, or is it Him who calls with the still small voice, and we respond?
Not to beat a ded horse, but don't we, uniquely and on His terms, attain new things of the Spirit as He takes our studies and devotion and adds His enlightenment?
Christ indeed is the full revelation for heaven.
Those other moments of truth and intimacy are another form of revelation(s), for our growth & edification, no?


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> In Galatians 1 (and 1Corinthians 2) Paul makes it clear that the things he is teaching came to him, not from a man or a Bible, but from God Himself.
> As a minister of the Gospel, that is not so for me.....  Except, I have God's inspired words(written Gospel of Christ), and I have God's Spirit in me.
> 
> Paul and the other apostles spoke and taught things as God gave them utterance.
> ...



Ronnie my respect for you is emence. I speak with you in fellowship because God gives us utterance--what we would speak of if we met otherwise (if we would speak to each other at) all would most like be about the weather. 

When I was a young man I walked two inches off the ground because I knew God was good. I knew this from his creation. My utterances were as paintings of that creation . When I learned that God was Love for the Revelation of Jesus Christ( even outside of his creation) my utterances were from Love...and the boy who walked on air now walked a grounded gait and the ground under his steps is the fullness of truth--it is Love.

Ever consider why we can point to Matthew 5, 6, 7 as the Gospel within the Gospel? Why we can point to Matthew 5,6, 7 as a drink for someone who is impatient with wanting and thrist for the Lord? Can I suggest they point to Jesus and God( our Father) in His heart. From the overwelming and scary mass of scripture, we are freed to know Jesus quickly!  And it is from this Jesus and the Jesus that takes away all sin--a new creation is formed. Utterance will start as a bable, tears, cramps, a cry, laughter---simple baby things...but from these if a saint will carry on His utterance will be theirs equal to Paul's--and the fullness of  the Revelation of Jesus will be their guide and not especially scripture or the doctrines of other men and women????

Man might point to scripture as the benchmark of truth, but the unterances of scripture point to Jesus and Jesus in our hearts as the only truth. Jesus and His Holy Spirit is the truth and the way. From Jesus in my heart I practice and preach. My utterance is not different than Paul's, and our ears to God Paul would most likely put us ahead of himself-- and say, " Bring forth your gifts in the light of the Revelation of Jesus Christ that is affored to all who come to Him." Perhaps?

Ronnie if you have God's Spirit in you then surely you at least have the accent of His voice. I say least, but know you have more than this. Accents are all caracteristic of being from somewhere which has fashioned unterance. God in his Kingdom did not mean it to be a quiet place- at least that is what he told Paul. Man was Paul wordy! I think Paul would have us there with him--all ears and big mouths.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Very well said.  But such intimacy doesn't happen overnight. It comes with moments we draw near, and He answers, or is it Him who calls with the still small voice, and we respond?
> Not to beat a ded horse, but don't we, uniquely and on His terms, attain new things of the Spirit as He takes our studies and devotion and adds His enlightenment?
> Christ indeed is the full revelation for heaven.
> Those other moments of truth and intimacy are another form of revelation(s), for our growth & edification, no?



Yes you are probably right. But those moments  for our growth and edification are not revelations as Paul means it I believe. Perhaps they are insights and not revelations at all. They are insights that tell you there is a "place" out there where some walk into. The revelation Paul talks about is the revelation of that place itself. The place is revealed to him--and from that place one is bound to the dress code, the utterances, the lingo, the rules of the road, the culture, the spirit, etc.... and the way of thinking and the way of seeing--yet always mindful that once we were lost?

Perhaps.


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## StriperAddict (Jul 13, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Yes you are probably right. But those moments for our growth and edification are not revelations as Paul means it I believe. Perhaps they are insights and not revelations at all. They are insights that tell you there is a "place" out there where some walk into. The revelation Paul talks about is the revelation of that place itself. The place is revealed to him--and from that place one is bound to the dress code, the utterances, the lingo, the rules of the road, the culture, the spirit, etc.... and the way of thinking and the way of seeing--yet always mindful that once we were lost?
> 
> Perhaps.


 
Insights /  revelations... I guess I could split hairs.
The point I'm getting at is that during bible study, for instance, you "see" and old verse you've read a hundred times, and yet this one time you gain that insight.
God cannot be boxed in to "speak" to us only from such study, we can have His presence, His revelation revealed during a walk in the woods, or a look at a setting sun.
But can we give credit to our bible study (method or otherwise) when the "light" comes on of truth or revelation?
I guess the reason I like the word revelation(s) is that it seems to put Him who authors all truth into the drivers seat and not we ourselves.  Otherwise we'd be left with memorizing the entire bible in a vain hope our way of conjuring up truths is of our own doing (speaking foolishly of course).  

That's how my brain takes this discussion, right or wrong perhaps.

Perhaps I may need a fresh revelation 

Peace


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## 1gr8bldr (Jul 13, 2012)

My greek parallel renders it "of" yet my NIV is "from". What translation do you have? We can read many things "into" the text. Some may be intended and some may not. I think Paul is trying to seperate himself and his teaching from that of the converted Jews. Peters crowd had accepted the gospel but were not yet completly free from the law. They were mixing the gospel and law. Paul wanted the gentiles not to do this. Peter himself when he healed, I think it was the lame guy, was still going to the temple 3 times a day to pray. He was on his way when he healed this guy. He himself was not "free" yet. Paul, especially in the Galatians letter was trying to get the gentiles not to mix law and freedom. So he declared that his gospel revealed to him, was not from the apostles teaching, but from revelation. I wonder why anyone would accept that God had revealed truth to him. In other words, why did they believe him. In another place, I can't recall Paul states that "signs, miracles and wonders were performed among you", thus this may have been why they accepted Pauls gospel


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Insights /  revelations... I guess I could split hairs.
> The point I'm getting at is that during bible study, for instance, you "see" and old verse you've read a hundred times, and yet this one time you gain that insight.
> God cannot be boxed in to "speak" to us only from such study, we can have His presence, His revelation revealed during a walk in the woods, or a look at a setting sun.
> But can we give credit to our bible study (method or otherwise) when the "light" comes on of truth or revelation?
> ...



It is Jesus who saves, not anyone's ministry, not the bible or a bible study.  Salvation is not our doing. Jesus is the Revelation. For Jesus all knowledge proceeds--especially if you are of gentile stock. Me thinks that an honest focus on the broad lines of who is, what is the purpose of Jesus our Saviour is all the revelation one needs so as to be intimate with God- The Alpha and Omega. Baptised, born again of a new water, all of scripture makes perfect good sense for being intimate with His revelation and our exceptance of how essential it is to our lives. Is the Holy Spirit in us regardless or are we in His family--willingly in that Spirit?

Anyway....my brothers are not stangers to me? Have your pick of Revelation or insights.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Simply put, Jesus Christ is The Revelation.
> 
> I can conjour up plenty of things to entertain my mind and say God has spoken, but the still small voice of the Holy Spirit constantly confirms His Word through the Revelation of Christ in my own heart.  The is no fear of Revelation when tested amd proved!  God is still speaking today, we just have to learn to hear!  God Bless!



When was the last time you thought this was funny. Listen. LOL


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## Ronnie T (Jul 13, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Ronnie my respect for you is emence. I speak with you in fellowship because God gives us utterance--what we would speak of if we met otherwise (if we would speak to each other at) all would most like be about the weather.
> 
> When I was a young man I walked two inches off the ground because I knew God was good. I knew this from his creation. My utterances were as paintings of that creation . When I learned that God was Love for the Revelation of Jesus Christ( even outside of his creation) my utterances were from Love...and the boy who walked on air now walked a grounded gait and the ground under his steps is the fullness of truth--it is Love.
> 
> ...



I like what you've said above.  People, myself included, often make it sound as though our faith is in the Bible rather than the blood of Jesus.

C.S. Lewis once said that a person, even an atheist, should be very careful when reading the words of the Gospel because mysteries and new understandings will come forth to the person who's ready.

Paul might have wished to have had these words to study for himself!  But he should remember how he misused the holy scrolls as he persecuted the Lord's church.


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## Michael F. Gray (Jul 13, 2012)

Classic example is the final book in the Word of God, which bears the title of your interogatory. It was received by John the beloved disciple. It is the Revelation is both from Christ, and about Christ. Since Christ is the Revelation of God himself,[John 1:18], God the Father gave the Revelation to his SON, Christ to be shown to John while exiled on the Isle of Patmos, by means of an angel.,(messenger). The word revelation comes from the Greek word apokalypsis and is literaly translated  means an "unveiling", or exposure of God's program for the world through Jesus Christ.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Michael F. Gray said:


> Classic example is the final book in the Word of God, which bears the title of your interogatory. It was received by John the beloved disciple. It is the Revelation is both from Christ, and about Christ. Since Christ is the Revelation of God himself,[John 1:18], God the Father gave the Revelation to his SON, Christ to be shown to John while exiled on the Isle of Patmos, by means of an angel.,(messenger). The word revelation comes from the Greek word apokalypsis and is literaly translated  means an "unveiling", or exposure of God's program for the world through Jesus Christ.



That just about sums it up, in a nut shell. Good stuff. Thanks.


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## formula1 (Jul 13, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> When was the last time you thought this was funny. Listen. LOL



Not just funny, but I hear it clearly!


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## Madman (Jul 17, 2012)

I believe this is a very difficult topic until it happens to you.  
“You are the Christ the Son of the Living God.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.” Matt. 16.
“ But God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit.” 1 Cor. 2
There are other passages we can read and attempt to comprehend; we believe that in our knowledge we can fully understand God when in reality we only see in the “mirror dimly”. How can the temporal understand the spiritual?  Without the “teacher” the Holy Scriptures make no spiritual sense.

It isn’t until we hear and understand someone’s testimony and the Holy Spirit convicts us, or perhaps for a reason known only to him, the Holy Spirit convicts us, do we see the need for redemption.  If we hear a testimony, we may begin to search for God, I know one person who just began praying, “God if you are real, reveal Jesus to me”.  That prayer went on for almost 2 years before she received a revelation of Jesus as the Christ, or if for some reason the Holy Spirit chooses to rend our hearts we become open to truth of Christ.

Of the people I know who are hostile to the Gospel they are that way because they see no need for it.  Until they are convicted by the Holy Spirit they have no understanding of sin, just as the Law revealed sin the Holy Spirit convicts, and without the “bad news” of sin there is no need for the Gospel.

I was once a demoniac in bondage to the world, until God in his grace opened my ears to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  At 3:30 one morning I begged God to show himself to me, and just as Jesus explained the Scriptures to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, the Holy Spirit began to open the Scriptures to me revealing my need for a redeemer.  I went from a position of knowing “about” Jesus to a position of “knowing” Jesus.

Some of my old friends say I am “madder” now than I was then.  I do know this, thanks to a revelation of the Holy Spirit I know "my Lord is risen, my redeemer lives”.


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