# Two Seed doctrine



## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2014)

A doctrine taught by the Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists and others. We had a few Two Seed Churches in south western and north western Georgia.
Only a minuscule minority of Primitive Baptists adhere to this doctrine, primarily churches in Northern Alabama, Eastern Tennessee, Indiana, and Texas.
Taught by elder Daniel Parker. Parker taught that all persons are either of the "good seed" of God or of the "bad seed" of Satan (the children of the good seed are roughly equivalent to the "elect" of Calvinism, and those of the bad seed similar to the "non-elect"), and were predestined that way from the beginning. Therefore mission activity was not only unbiblical, but as a practical matter useless, since the "decision" was already made prior to birth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit_Predestinarian_Baptists


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## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2014)

In Georgia we had two associations, Lookout Mountain & Suwannee River. Isaac Coon was a prominant preacher in south Georgia. His followers were called Coonites. He didn't believe in He!! either. He preached at the Wayfare Primitive Baptist Church in Clinch County. Because of the changes in county boundaries, this church, though never moved, has existed in three counties, first in Ware, then in Clinch and now in Echols. He is buried at New Friendship Primitive Baptist Church, near Hahira, Lowndes County.
The coonites dissappeared in the 1930's. 

http://genforum.genealogy.com/coon/messages/3201.html


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## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2014)

Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial doctrine, according to which the serpent in the Garden of Eden mated with Eve, and the offspring of their union was Cain. This belief is still held by some adherents of the white-supremacist theology known as Christian Identity, who claim that the Jews, as descendants of Cain, are also descended from the serpent.[1][2] The idea has also existed in several other non-racial contexts, and major proponents include Daniel Parker (1781–1844)[3] and William M. Branham (1909–65).[4]

The doctrine that Eve mated with the serpent, or with Satan, to produce Cain also appears in early Gnostic writings such as the Gospel of Philip (c. 350); however, this teaching was explicitly rejected as heresy by Irenaeus [5] (c. 180) and later mainstream Christian theologians. A similar doctrine appeared in Jewish midrashic texts in the 9th century and in the Kabalah. It is considered a false doctrine by mainstream Protestants.[6] Catholic theologians point to the fact that the Bible states that the original sin is that of Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed


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## Day trip (May 22, 2014)

Nice doctrine (sarcasm),  so there is no need to try? We are either doomed or saved and there is nothing we can do about it.  Nice way to take all the responsibility for your own actions off your shoulders.  No wonder there are so many people who don't take religion seriously.  Religeon is a process of maturation and just like early medicine where many died from ignorance before the truth was discovered ( if not completely then more fiully) people in these groups are morally being destroyed by bad ideas.  However, certainly something can be learned from these notions,  I'm just not sure i care to delve into them enough to find the lesson.


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## Ronnie T (May 22, 2014)

There is only one seed..... that seed either finds a receptive heart and becomes fruitful, or it falls upon the rocks and by ways.


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## Day trip (May 22, 2014)

Very well said, Ronnie T


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## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Nice doctrine (sarcasm),  so there is no need to try? We are either doomed or saved and there is nothing we can do about it.  Nice way to take all the responsibility for your own actions off your shoulders.  No wonder there are so many people who don't take religion seriously.  Religeon is a process of maturation and just like early medicine where many died from ignorance before the truth was discovered ( if not completely then more fiully) people in these groups are morally being destroyed by bad ideas.  However, certainly something can be learned from these notions,  I'm just not sure i care to delve into them enough to find the lesson.



First off I don't agree with the Two Seed Doctrine but then again I'm not a Calvinist. The irony is that I believe in limited predestination. 
I've been doing a lot of research into Primitive Baptist in the Wire grass(South Georgia) as it is a part of my heritage. I didn't know the Church was as prevalent in south Georgia as it was at one time. Many of my ancestors belonged to that faith. I don't know if they were Two-seedest or not. Regardless the history is interesting. Check out my thread with links to the old Hardshell Baptist Churches of the Wire Grass. It is in the Outdoor Facts & History Forum. Beautiful Churches, music, and very faithful people.
In your statement of "ignorance," do you feel this is why some of those Churches no longer exist? Do you feel we know more about God's plan than these Primitive Baptist of the late 1800's & early 1900's? Isn't there something Biblical about knowledge being revealed towards the End Ages? 
Do we know more in the Modern Church than the Early Church? If so why are we continuously addressing the beliefs of early Christians if they got it wrong in the first place?
I really can't say I see better Christians helping & loving today than what I read about my ancestors and their Primitive Baptist brothers & sisters of the Twenties & Thirties.


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## The Longhunter (May 22, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've been doing a lot of research into Primitive Baptist in the Wire grass(South Georgia) as it is a part of my heritage.



My g-g-g-grandfather was a home missionary in Southwest Georgia before the recent unpleasantness, and started many Missionary Baptist Churches.  He was a Chaplain for the Confederate States.  I've never been able to find any churches he started.

After the War of Yankee Agression, the family migrated to Florida, where he started several churches, which I have identified.

I have never been able to determine the family relationship if any with Primitive Baptist Churches before the war.

 Anyway, the "Two Seeds" heresy has been around for 1800 years or so, first as a Gnostic heresy, then as the Manichean Heresy.  Gnosticism still has strong presence in some of the eastern Christian churches.

So being as the concept has been proposed, debated, and rejected by most religions of various stripes (Christian and Muslim), I don't think disagreeing with a 19th century restatement has anything to do with rejecting the "old church."  It was rejected 1800 yrs. ago by even older churches.  Gnosticism was one of the first heresy to grow out of early Christianity, because the Gnostics wanted to believe that they were something special, and only they had been blessed to divine the true meaning of the Word of God.  If that's the way you want to swing, have at it, but the belief certainly isn't due any deference by reason of being "old."


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## Artfuldodger (May 23, 2014)

I can see a progression of changes say within the Primitive Baptist of the wiregrass. Now given there are many factions of Baptist and primitive Baptist in the wiregrass or at least there was at one time.
Members started new factions as they progressed from more primitive to more progressive. Some Churches got electricity, then air conditioners, then pianos, then inside toilets, then glass window panes. None of these changes have much as to do with Salvation as worshipping.
Views & beliefs changed about two-seedism, depravity, OSAS, predestination, works, he!!, as the Church progressed. Not everyone agreed with all of the changes and thus many factions. Why did some of these these churches change operations or cease to exist? Were these Churches created out of ignorance? Is the medicine metaphor as related to ignorance equal to what is happening in our Churches?
Now a general question concerning all Christians of today:
As we progress and become less ignorant about God, science, & medicine, will we progress in the Church to the correct way of worshipping also? Did our ancestors have some of it wrong because of ignorance? It appears we are headed in a "salvation for everyone" type of attitude or Universalism where everyone will be saved. No longer is living a Christian life as important to us as it was our ancestors. They helped people more but at the same time were more legal in keeping commandments and following rules. 
Now that we are a less ignorant group as a whole, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt we have salvation so we don't have to live a Christian life anymore. The main reason being we can't because we can't quit sinning. Jesus died for our sins so it really doesn't matter. At least we try.
As we become less ignorant we've gotton away from Discipleship and now follow the Easy-Believism style of living. "It really is that easy."
Is this what progress means? Isn't there verses that say as man progresses through the eons he will gain the true knowledge of God towards the end times?


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## hobbs27 (May 23, 2014)

Art. I do not believe in universal / corporate salvation any more than I believe in a future corporate resurrection, but Universalist may have been part of the church for much longer than it seems you're giving credit to. I've seen evidence of it in the first century church.


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## Artfuldodger (May 23, 2014)

This is a list of Baptist in Georgia from Mercer:


From their beginning, Baptists have actively favored the Lordship of Christ, the authority of the
Bible rather than ecclesiastical tradition, believer's baptism, the priesthood of all believers, the
gathered and congregational church, local church autonomy that encourages associationalism/
connectionalism, the separation of church and state, and religious liberty. Nevertheless, from
virtually the start here in Georgia, diversity has also marked Baptist denominational life--a fact
that will be made clear as this essay continues.

http://libraries.mercer.edu/tarver/archives/media/History.pdf


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## Artfuldodger (May 23, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Art. I do not believe in universal / corporate salvation any more than I believe in a future corporate resurrection, but Universalist may have been part of the church for much longer than it seems you're giving credit to. I've seen evidence of it in the first century church.



I'm talking about our general attitude or beliefs in that direction more than the Universalist Church which as you said has been aroung for a long time.

One thing I just thought of is Baptist and baptism. You reckon Baptist will progress to a point where immersion baptism won't be a church ordinance?


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## hobbs27 (May 23, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I'm talking about our general attitude or beliefs in that direction more than the Universalist Church which as you said has been aroung for a long time.
> 
> One thing I just thought of is Baptist and baptism. You reckon Baptist will progress to a point where immersion baptism won't be a church ordinance?



Some no longer require a testimony of grace. I witnessed some family members being baptized into and joining the first Baptist church . No testimony was required before baptism.


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## Artfuldodger (May 23, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Some no longer require a testimony of grace. I witnessed some family members being baptized into and joining the first Baptist church . No testimony was required before baptism.



I don't remember giving a baptism testimony. I thought my baptism was the testimony.


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## hobbs27 (May 23, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't remember giving a baptism testimony. I thought my baptism was the testimony.



In every Baptist church I've ever been in , you have to give a testimony of your experience with grace, then you become a candidate for Baptism, and come under the watchcare . You're not an official voting member until these things are done and your baptism is completed. 
 Once this is done a letter is created, and you can join other Baptist churches by having your letter moved, but even then your testimony of an experience with grace is required.


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## Day trip (May 23, 2014)

I never believed that you endorsed the Two Seed Doctrine.  I've read some of your posts and feel like you are a very intelligent person who likes to stimulate conversation.  I enjoy this kind of discussions very much and view it as an opportunity to grow. 

The ignorance I spoke of referred to the physicians in early medicine whose lack of knowledge and false knowledge lead to the deaths of thousands and thousands of people.  See the writings of William Harvey and Joseph Lister for an example.  Just like the early physicians, the lack of knowledge in these churches had lead to the moral depravity of its members which is possibly worse than death.  
Now are we better than the early churches at interpreting the scriptures, living the message of Christ?  Yes and no.  The leaders of the early church knew Christ, they lived with him, worked with him and learned from him.  But even they did not understand a lot of Christ's messages until after his death.  Then it was their duty to deliver that message to a people who were largely uneducated, superstitious and barely able to subsist.  It was no time before St. Paul asks the Corinthians, "is Christ divided?" because they claim to belong to Apollos, to Cephus, to Paul.  So Christianity has had controversy from the beginning.  It is really very simple, love God first and then love your neighbor.  If we could do that then not another word would need to be written.  But libraries are filled with the volumes of books attempting to explain these basic principles.  Inspired people, writing from their point of view about what it means to love God.  Some made good points, some did not.  If I were to hold a common object up in the middle of a room of people and ask them to describe it, what would I get?  Lets take a pencil,  some would say it is an elongated, narrow object with a tapered end and a metal tip holding a red squared off end.  Another person would say, " no, it is a perfect circle" ( looking directly from the end).  Now they are both right but who can truly understand what a pencil is unless they examine it from multiple points if view, pick it up, hold it and use it? Now imagine something infinitely more vague, the kingdom of God.  Looking at what we have, the bible and history books, we must examine it from many points of view, pick it up and apply it to our lives in order to really understand it to the best of our abilities.  Even with all of the information, we are still divided.  We have Catholics, Baptist, Lutherans, the Georgia Bulldogs, everyone is on a team, claiming that their one point of view is the only correct one.  When people start claiming to be chosen and the rest of mankind are doomed, they haven't spent much time studying scripture.  It doesn't take much reading to find out that we ALL are called to be Son's of God.  Each will be judged by their thoughts and actions according to the "talents" they are given and the "talents" they return.   The goal is not to be baptized or to be saved as though we are crossing a finish line or like banditos crossing the border into Mexico.  The goal is to discover the true meaning of Christ and live as a disciple of Christ.  If churches establish laws to help guide people to Christ, that's fine but the goal is not to check items off a list, but to unite the flesh and the soul into oneness within the body of Christ.  We complicate things too much.  Churches refuse to have air conditioners? Lights?  Who cares? If that is what helps them know God then sit in the dark and sweat with your brother.  If churches require baptism and statements, celebrate their "rebirth".  All of these thing are man made tools established by an inspired person to help bring people to God.  Is there a perfect road map to God?  Yes, it is Jesus Christ.  Are we better off than the early Christians? We can be, we have so many points of views, so many more years of living and failing, learning as we go.  If we take the time and humble ourselves we can learn a lot from all of the inspired people through the centuries, right and wrong.  I didn't care to speak much about the Two Seed Doctrine because as Longhunter stated, it's been proposed, debated and rejected.


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