# Got a ticket from DNR today, and the amount is against GA law? DECISION!! Post #116!!



## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok, I know some of you are experts on the law, I am not.  Please help me out here.

So I was on a gravel road on a wma and came up on a DNR check point.  Because I had been hopping in and out of the truck scouting, taking pictures of the views etc., I was not wearing my seat belt.  They checked me out and handed me a citation for not wearing a seat belt.

Ok, I'm fine with that.  Even though I was going slow on a gravel road, the law is the law, and I should have had my seat belt on.  I was about to just call the number and pay the thing when I did some online research.

THE PROBLEM IS:  The officer wrote the ticket amount in the blank.  It is $100 plus $25 processing fee.  According to GA State law at this link: http://www.gahighwaysafety.org/seat-belt-laws/
The maximum fine for this offense is $15 dollars!!  And NO penalty, fee, or surcharge may be added.

What am I missing? Have I overlooked something, or are DNR tickets more $ for some reason?

One other detail the ticket says "United States District Court".  I'm used to seeing a county magistrate court, what's up with that?
Please help me here, thanks in advance!


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## dtala (Sep 21, 2013)

the Officer has nothing to do with the fine amount, that is up to the courts and the law. Officer just put an amount on there to fill in a blank....


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

dtala said:


> the Officer has nothing to do with the fine amount, that is up to the courts and the law. Officer just put an amount on there to fill in a blank....



Yeah, but if I called the number and paid the fine, they would take the $125??  Isn't that crooked?


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## joshpetty1980 (Sep 21, 2013)

you should fight it


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## Dr. Strangelove (Sep 21, 2013)

They're betting that having to take a day off work, go back to the county where the violation occurred, wait around in court all day, etc., is more hassle than just coughing up the $125.


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## KennesawLawMan (Sep 21, 2013)

with "United States District Court" appearing on the citation means a U.S. Fish & Wildlife Ranger issued the citation. Their fines are not bound by State laws and regulations.


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## turkeyed (Sep 21, 2013)

You either received that citation from the US Forest Service or US fish and wildlife.  That is a federal citation not a state citation.  Look at it again.


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## The mtn man (Sep 21, 2013)

It's seems like green jeans would have something more productive to do than write seatbelt tickets on a gravel rd.Thats how our state GWs are here, if they can't get you for a wildlife violation, they start looking for other things.


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## Paymaster (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> One other detail the ticket says "United States District Court".  I'm used to seeing a county magistrate court, what's up with that?
> Please help me here, thanks in advance!



Not your first time, I take it?


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## Jim Ammons (Sep 21, 2013)

Which WMA?


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## BigBluff32 (Sep 21, 2013)

KennesawLawMan said:


> with "United States District Court" appearing on the citation means a U.S. Fish & Wildlife Ranger issued the citation. Their fines are not bound by State laws and regulations.



You are correct sir.


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## Dusty Roads (Sep 21, 2013)

I've heard  the Feds enforce the residing state laws(got rid of ATV's in Union County {mostly USFS land even though  the Union County once allow it contrary to state law} example) BUT, the fine amounts are of their own making!Sad representation of our State of Affairs.


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## gahunter12 (Sep 21, 2013)

Yep you found a US Fish & Wildlife ranger. I think there must be a seat belt/DUI blitz going on this weekend also. We went through a large check point in Statem last night. They had County Sheriff, city police, and GSP set up in 6 groups of 5 officers down the center line checking 6 cars at a time. No telling how many arresting officers on the side, and the "zero tolerance" truck. Checking seat belts, drinking, and drugs with the drug dog. 

One officer noticed my IDPA, Georgia Carry, NRA, and Glock stickers in my back glass. He asked if we had any fire arms. I thought "OH Boy hear we go". I said yes sir I have a Glock 22 on my side, and my wife has a S&W .357. He just shook my hand, said your a good man, be safe.


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## 01Foreman400 (Sep 21, 2013)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> They're betting that having to take a day off work, go back to the county where the violation occurred, wait around in court all day, etc., is more hassle than just coughing up the $125.



They would get my $125.  Not worth the hassle or a vacation day.


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## sgtstinky (Sep 21, 2013)

Someone has to pay for Obama care...


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## The Longhunter (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Yeah, but if I called the number and paid the fine, they would take the $125??  Isn't that crooked?





Dr. Strangelove said:


> They're betting that having to take a day off work, go back to the county where the violation occurred, wait around in court all day, etc., is more hassle than just coughing up the $125.





KennesawLawMan said:


> with "United States District Court" appearing on the citation means a U.S. Fish & Wildlife Ranger issued the citation. Their fines are not bound by State laws and regulations.



Exactly.


U.S. District Courts have a schedule of fines, you don't have to go in front of a judge, and that's why the officer can write the amount in the blank.

OP, make sure you tell them they are "crooked" when you pay the fine.  I'm sure they will straighten themselves out.


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## The Longhunter (Sep 21, 2013)

Paymaster said:


> Not your first time, I take it?



Now that's funny right there.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 21, 2013)

Just wait til' all of the DNR / WRD officers are turned into full fledged LEO's under the new restructuring of GaDNR. I said it before and it got poo-pooed by some naysayers. It has nothing more to do with game management and everything to do with revenue generation.


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## toolmkr20 (Sep 21, 2013)

I would suggest wearing a seat belt and paying the fine.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

Paymaster said:


> Not your first time, I take it?



Ha, I set myself up for that one!  2nd ticket ever, fyi!

Again, in response to those of you who just say pay it, I don't mind paying what I owe, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't paying an amount greater than the law allows.  

But I guess the federal vs. state thing makes some sense, kind of a loophole for them.


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## bm708 (Sep 21, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just wait til' all of the DNR / WRD officers are turned into full fledged LEO's under the new restructuring of GaDNR. I said it before and it got poo-pooed by some naysayers. It has nothing more to do with game management and everything to do with revenue generation.



How are they generating revenue? The counties get the fine money.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok, answer this last question.  If this is a federal case (there is no federal seat belt law) instead of state law, where can I look up the codes that they are subject to?  I mean, surely they can't just make up their own rules, if so they could charge me a million dollars for this ticket.

So where do I look up the codes that they are subject to?


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## Hooty Hoot (Sep 21, 2013)

I would like to know which WMA.


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## Luckybuck (Sep 21, 2013)

We have laws called Constitution in Washington DC, seems that today this administration does what they want.


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## deadend (Sep 21, 2013)

Got an improper camping ticket from USFS a few years back. Even when it was clearly erroneous and the prosecutor agreed in court we still had to pay. Cain't fight the man.


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## GA DAWG (Sep 21, 2013)

Was it a real rd or just a wma rd?


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## The mtn man (Sep 21, 2013)

I don't want to bash GWs in general, but I and some folks I know have had some bad experiences with them in NC,it seems they just want to try to get the hard working law abiding citizens for some sort of stupid violation,Like having too dark of a license plate cover, or a bad taillight or a seatbelt, rather than get the true career poachers, I guess they want to write tickets to the ones they know will pay, or they just don't have the know how to catch the poachers, I will not go into detail as to what happened to me once with 2 NC GWs, I'll will just say I will not be giving them any pointers or information ever.


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## gahunter12 (Sep 21, 2013)

Just remember you are Guilty until proven Guilty in the eyes of the Federal Gov. Even a inocent verdict is still Guilty to the FEDS. It's strictly revenue driven. If Obama will allow Americans to be killed to cover up something else, he will fine you just because. 

Just remember we have to pay for Obama Care some way.


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## speedcop (Sep 21, 2013)

Here something else for you. I got a ticket from a federal gw several years ago, my fine amount was mailed to me. I had to send $400 to texas. Here is the good part. A ticket, warning or violation stays on your record for life. Not like traffic tickets that eventually clear over time. My original fine was only $200 but because I had been issued a warning from Ga. DNR years before my fine was doubled. Thats when I found out about their lifetime system.

It may have changed since the 90's but I was told it will go to the grave with me.


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## The mtn man (Sep 21, 2013)

speedcop said:


> Here something else for you. I got a ticket from a federal gw several years ago, my fine amount was mailed to me. I had to send $400 to texas. Here is the good part. A ticket, warning or violation stays on your record for life. Not like traffic tickets that eventually clear over time. My original fine was only $200 but because I had been issued a warning from Ga. DNR years before my fine was doubled. Thats when I found out about their lifetime system.
> 
> It may have changed since the 90's but I was told it will go to the grave with me.



Amazing, but not surprising.


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## papachaz (Sep 21, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just wait til' all of the DNR / WRD officers are turned into full fledged LEO's under the new restructuring of GaDNR. I said it before and it got poo-pooed by some naysayers. It has nothing more to do with game management and everything to do with revenue generation.



that's backwards isn't it? The ranger at Hard Labor Creek SP told us back in July that all the GW's and Rangers were losing their LEO status.

 He's considering a move because he doesn't want to have to deal with drunks, poachers, et al, and not have the authority  to deal with it.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

And another thing, I'm supposed to pay the "Central Violations Bureau" and on their website it states this:



> What is the Central Violations Bureau?The Central Violations Bureau is a national center responsible for processing violation notices (tickets) issued and payments received for petty offenses charged on a federal violation notice. This includes violations that occur on federal property such as federal buildings, national parks, military installations, post offices, Veteran Affairs medical centers, national wildlife refuges, and national forests. The Central Violations Bureau processes violation notices for violations of federal law that occur outside federal property as well. For example, migratory bird offenses that occur on private property.



This was NOT federal land (public road) and it's not a federal offense.  There is no federal seat belt law.  What gives?


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## turkeyed (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> And another thing, I'm supposed to pay the "Central Violations Bureau" and on their website it states this:
> 
> 
> 
> This was NOT federal land (public road) and it's not a federal offense.  There is no federal seat belt law.  What gives?



Where were you?

My guess is you were on a road that ran through forest service property or National park service property.  You are correct in that there is not federal seat belt law, however a federal officer can issue a federal citation on a state law.  Since the federal officers powers are granted by the federal government the citation is issued through the federal court system.  Also federal citations are not subject to fine restrictions set forth in state law.  One other thing State game wardens generraly do not write a fine amount on a citation, do mostly to the county sets the fine amounts not DNR.

I imagine the officer that issued the citation was driving a chevy Tahoe and not a pickup truck like our state game wardens.


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## Workin2Hunt (Sep 21, 2013)

01Foreman400 said:


> They would get my $125.  Not worth the hassle or a vacation day.



^^^ This.... It isn't worth the time and you will end up paying the fine anyway.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok, I guess I'll say where, Old CCC camp rd., going through Cohutta.  County road, going through the WMA.  

Actually, there was a ford pickup AND a chevy vehicle.  The officer that wrote me up was in the ford.

So where is the codes / laws that the us court must abide by?


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## turkeyed (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I guess I'll say where, Old CCC camp rd., going through Cohutta.  County road, going through the WMA.
> 
> Actually, there was a ford pickup AND a chevy vehicle.  The officer that wrote me up was in the ford.
> 
> So where is the codes / laws that the us court must abide by?



All of the roads on Cohutta are USFS roads.  Owned and maintained by the USFS.

The USFS operates under CFR or Federal regulation.  Look on your citation and it will have the regulation printed on it.  Google the regulation.


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## rigderunner (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I guess I'll say where, Old CCC camp rd., going through Cohutta.  County road, going through the WMA.
> 
> Actually, there was a ford pickup AND a chevy vehicle.  The officer that wrote me up was in the ford.
> 
> So where is the codes / laws that the us court must abide by?



Those guys can be buts up there man that makes no sense to me about the fine because every ticket from the dnr ive ever heard of and the one i got they will tell you the fine depends on the county he shouldnt have wrote an amount there you were probably in murray county so i would call them and talk to there state court judge he should be able to help you because the state court deals with the dnr tickets


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 21, 2013)

papachaz said:


> that's backwards isn't it? The ranger at Hard Labor Creek SP told us back in July that all the GW's and Rangers were losing their LEO status.
> 
> He's considering a move because he doesn't want to have to deal with drunks, poachers, et al, and not have the authority  to deal with it.


You are confused or were mis-informed.


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## Fenderbuilt27 (Sep 21, 2013)

That's why we need to get rid of some of these nanny laws. Going down a gravel rode and get a seatbelt infraction. This country has gone from having limited law to aid in government to making unnecessary laws and using the fines as a way to creat revenue for the government.


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## booger branch benelli (Sep 21, 2013)

Every federal guy I have ran into has been on a whole other level of jerk.  I had one almost draw down on me one time for just pulling up where he was parked. Hand on gun and yelling to turn the ignition off.  He wanted to search my vehicle and everything for no reason; he was just parked at the end of a dead end road I was wanting to scout.  
I would fight it just for the principal of the whole thing.  I have rolled over and took a ticket that was bogus more that once and just paid like a good boy should; like they expect and hope 99% will do. I wish I would have fought them.

p.s. It was probably the same one that gave you the ticket that drew down on me.  and the same one that gave the guy who shot the bear decoy bogus warnings.  Tell us his name.  There isn't anything against that.


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## The Longhunter (Sep 21, 2013)

speedcop said:


> Here something else for you. I got a ticket from a federal gw several years ago, my fine amount was mailed to me. I had to send $400 to texas. Here is the good part. A ticket, warning or violation stays on your record for life. Not like traffic tickets that eventually clear over time. My original fine was only $200 but because I had been issued a warning from Ga. DNR years before my fine was doubled. Thats when I found out about their lifetime system.
> 
> It may have changed since the 90's but I was told it will go to the grave with me.




Don't know what state you are in, but in Georgia, traffic offenses will stay on your record until the end of time.





cklem said:


> Amazing, but not surprising.


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## CRIMINOLES (Sep 21, 2013)

Seat belt laws are stupid !!! There are no seat belts on school buses but you as a grown man better have one on on a dirt road !!! - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ? Is wrong with this country


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## redwards (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I guess I'll say where, Old CCC camp rd., going through Cohutta.  County road, going through the WMA.
> 
> Actually, there was a ford pickup AND a chevy vehicle.  The officer that wrote me up was in the ford.
> 
> So where is the codes / laws that the us court must abide by?


My guess, it depends on where you were on Old CCC Camp Rd. Once it enters Cohutta WMA, designation on Chattahoochee National Forest Map appears to change from County Road 299 to U.S. Forest Service Rd 18.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

redwards said:


> My guess, it depends on where you were on Old CCC Camp Rd. Once it enters Cohutta WMA, designation on Chattahoochee National Forest Map appears to change from County Road 299 to U.S. Forest Service Rd 18.



The ranger wrote "Old CCC Camp Rd." in the "location of violation" blank....  It does not indicate where on the road it happened.  

BTW thanks for all the input guys, I haven't made a decision yet, but will definitely let everyone know what happens if I fight it.


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## redwards (Sep 21, 2013)

Just a guess, but this may be what the citation was based on...
Code of Federal Regulations
Title 36
Parks, Forests, and Public Property
Parts 1 to 199
Revised as of July 1, 2013

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2013-title36-vol1/pdf/CFR-2013-title36-vol1.pdf



> 4.15  Safety belts.
> 
> (a) Each operator and passenger occupying any seating position of a
> motor vehicle in a park area will have the safety belt or child
> ...


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## JustUs4All (Sep 21, 2013)

If you decide to fight it, the only thing you will accomplish is the loss of time as well as money.


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## redwards (Sep 21, 2013)

and here is another section of that CFR...



> § 4.2 State law applicable.
> (a) Unless specifically addressed by
> regulations in this chapter, traffic and
> the use of vehicles within a park area
> ...


and Georgia does have a seat belt law....


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## EGlock86 (Sep 21, 2013)

JustUs4All said:


> If you decide to fight it, the only thing you will accomplish is the loss of time as well as money.



Listen to him ^


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

redwards said:


> Just a guess, but this may be what the citation was based on...
> Code of Federal Regulations
> Title 36
> Parks, Forests, and Public Property
> ...



Thanks!  Ok, if I'm getting this right, they first need to prove I was on a public forest or park.  Then these regulations you mentioned would apply.  

But even if this is the code that they go by, it states: § 4.2 





> State law applicable.
> (a) Unless specifically addressed by
> regulations in this chapter, traffic and
> the use of vehicles within a park area
> ...



And no fines are mentioned in this literature, so the $15 state law would apply?  Also in the penalties section:



> § 1.3 Penalties.
> (a) A person convicted of violating a
> provision of the regulations contained
> in parts 1 through 7, 12 and 13 of this
> ...



As provided by what law?


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

you beat me to it...


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## The Longhunter (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Thanks!  Ok, if I'm getting this right, they first need to prove I was on a public forest or park.  Then these regulations you mentioned would apply.
> 
> But even if this is the code that they go by, it states: § 4.2
> 
> ...




United States District Courts have a schedule of fines for misdemeanors and minor offenses.  You can contact the Clerks office for the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, and they will either send you the schedule of fines, and tell you where you can find it, and it will state the authority by which the fines are imposed.

Note that the USDA (which operates national forests) and other agencies of the federal gov't don't have to follow state law unless there is a federal law that requires them to do so.  The fine can be more or less than state law provides (ask folks who violate migratory waterfowl rules, and catch a federal case).


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## The Longhunter (Sep 21, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I guess I'll say where, Old CCC camp rd., going through Cohutta.  County road, going through the WMA.
> 
> Actually, there was a ford pickup AND a chevy vehicle.  The officer that wrote me up was in the ford.
> 
> So where is the codes / laws that the us court must abide by?



http://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/conf/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5259917&width=full

Scroll down to "operation of vehicles."  First bullet point.


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## T-N-T (Sep 21, 2013)

I have passed DNR on USFS roads a few times,  unbuckled.  Maybe next time I put it on to save the hassle.   
I say fight!  You might not win.  But you will know that you tried.  I dont rolld over for ridiculousness.  I cannot stand abuse of power and the efforts made these days to generate revenue!!!


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## lbzdually (Sep 21, 2013)

Kind of on-topic question-if an adult in your car does not have their seat belt on, do they ticket the driver or the person who isn't wearing their seatbelt?


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## Dutch (Sep 21, 2013)

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.” 
― George Orwell


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## Stroker (Sep 21, 2013)

I used to work on a middle GA AFB before retiring this year. Until several years ago any ticket issued on base by security forces was dealt with on base by your immediate supervisor or commander. Depending upon the severity of your offense punishment could range from a verbal admonishment to a written counseling. It has now changed so if your ticketed you go to the nearest federal court to have your case heard and pay your fine. Save your time and pay the fine because federal court doesn't have a sliding scale for fines. Obama needs the money.


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## Milkman (Sep 21, 2013)

Call or visit the County Probate Court office in the county you got the ticket.  They can tell you whether this is on the up and up.


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## speedcop (Sep 21, 2013)

The Longhunter said:


> Don't know what state you are in, but in Georgia, traffic offenses will stay on your record until the end of time.



Georgia. and you are correct I should have specified traffic "warnings".


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## mpwarrak (Sep 21, 2013)

lbzdually said:


> Kind of on-topic question-if an adult in your car does not have their seat belt on, do they ticket the driver or the person who isn't wearing their seatbelt?



Click the link in my original post, it will answer that question.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 22, 2013)

Ok, I think I got it all figured out!!  If anyone is in a similar fix, or if you're just curious, follow along here...

The offense I was charged with is 36 CFR 261 54(d) I found this in the USDA code here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/261.54 
Which states:


> (d) Operating a vehicle in violation of the speed, load, weight, height, length, width, or other limitations specified by the order.



Ok, so what are the other limitations specified by the "order"?  And what is the "order"?
You can find it at this link, http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5130744.pdf
Wherein it states:


> 5. Operating a motor vehicle in violation of State law. 36 CFR 261.54(d)



Kind of weird, the offense code references the order, but the order just references right back to the offense code.  So kinda funny how they get seat belt out of that height, width, etc.

Lastly, the schedule of fees, scroll about 3/4 of the way down in this link and you will find where the fine is $100 for this offense code.  http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/kisatchie/learning/safety-ethics/?cid=fsbdev3_024700

Now all of this can only be enforced on "National Forest Service Roads"  The definition of this can be found here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/261.2


> Forest road or trail. A road or trail wholly or partly within or adjacent to and serving the National Forest System that the Forest Service determines is necessary for the protection, administration, and utilization of the National Forest System and the use and development of its resources.



So all of that and I'm still not sure if I should fight it.  Why do they make the laws so complicated and obscure?!

In addition, I wonder if the officers even know and study all of these laws... it would take a lifetime!


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## triton196 (Sep 22, 2013)

fight it in federal court they had to issue you a court date and it will be be in the closest fed court.


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## Throwback (Sep 22, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just wait til' all of the DNR / WRD officers are turned into full fledged LEO's under the new restructuring of GaDNR. I said it before and it got poo-pooed by some naysayers. It has nothing more to do with game management and everything to do with revenue generation.




Holy cow!

 SHakes head and walks off. 

T


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## JustUs4All (Sep 22, 2013)

Your answer given to you in post 45 above along with a cite to the controling regulation, 36 CFR 4.15.  Petty or not you are in violation.  Once again I would recommend that you send in your money and save the time you will loose otherwise.

If you have the time to waste, fight it.  It is your right to do so.


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## blackbear (Sep 22, 2013)

Hey motorcycle/scooter riders don't have to wear a  safety belt,Iam just saying....If they are worried about safety on those death trap roads up there ....why don't they fix some of those old joke single bridges and washboard/washed out roads & at the very lest put some new gravel down every 20 yrs. you would think you were up in Tennessee or Alabama up there at that  place..LOL


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## toolmkr20 (Sep 22, 2013)

I can't believe this has made it to two pages


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## deerslayer54 (Sep 22, 2013)

Just in general. I have fought traffic tickets a couple of times and won. Then had to pay court cost equal to the amount of the original ticket! Don't waste your time pay the ticket and get I with life. These are the same guys that where bullies in school. Nothing to do about until the revolution. Hoping it waits a couple more generations though.


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## Backlasher82 (Sep 22, 2013)

blackbear said:


> Hey motorcycle/scooter riders don't have to wear a  safety belt,Iam just saying...



People in cars don't have to wear helmets and eye protection so what exactly is it that you're just saying?


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## T-N-T (Sep 22, 2013)

deerslayer54 said:


> Just in general. I have fought traffic tickets a couple of times and won. Then had to pay court cost equal to the amount of the original ticket! Don't waste your time pay the ticket and get I with life. These are the same guys that where bullies in school. Nothing to do about until the revolution. Hoping it waits a couple more generations though.



IF you win, (found not guilty) you shouldnt pay court costs.  If you get your offence reduced,  its not "winning"  just "not loosing as bad"


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## Fenderbuilt27 (Sep 22, 2013)

If you do take it to court, the LEO that gave you the ticket will have to be there also. If not then you will win. If he does show up at least you will keep him occupied for a little while so he want be able to harass other citizens.


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## joedublin (Sep 22, 2013)

Is it a violation if the road you are on is entirely on the hunting land that you are leasing...not a public road?


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## blackbear (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks but no thanks if my truck goes off one of those steep cliffs up there .....I believe I would rather jump out than  roll down the side of those goat hills .... You want drivers going off the road strapped down with a safety belt on those roads that go straight down for a mile,gimme a break Jack! 
MPW You got ripped off baaddd,just keep your chin up and head held high brother and welcome to the club!
Don't put up with it,call the Gov'ners office!


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## The Longhunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Fenderbuilt27 said:


> If you do take it to court, the LEO that gave you the ticket will have to be there also. If not then you will win. If he does show up at least you will keep him occupied for a little while so he want be able to harass other citizens.



This isn't the local Monday night traffic court.  It's the United States District Court, they don't play that way.

Also, OP will have to go to Gainesville or Rome to contest it.  That "being occupied" works both ways.


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## TontoKemosabe (Sep 22, 2013)

I got a ticket for running a redlight in college,(my anti-establishment days) I felt sure that if I presented my case to the judge he would let me off.
After I finished my defense,  he said that he would let me off the ticket if I took a defensive driving course.
....... I wish I had just paid the ticket. 
I feel ya brother, what a jerk for an officer. A guy is minding his own, scouting, probably driving slow, getting out checking for trails gets stopped for a seatbelt violation. It might make me think that the GW didn't want me there for a reason. Could it be hunting a monster buck in the area he wanted for himself? just sayin....
:


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## deerhunter79 (Sep 22, 2013)

the laws of hunting has got me not all about hunting anymore. a dang deer has more rights then we do! your better off shooting somebody in town than shooting a dove out of season lol. i cant beileve how the this country is making all of its money off of fees...


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## mpwarrak (Sep 22, 2013)

Hey!  Here's something I could fight on maybe.  The USDA law refers back to state law.  State law says:


> C) The requirement of subsection (b) of this Code section shall not apply to:
> 1. A driver or passenger frequently stopping and leaving the vehicle or delivering property from the vehicle, if the speed of the vehicle between stops does not exceed 15 miles per hour;



So that's it.  I was making frequent stops, scouting, reviewing maps, and probably wasn't exceeding 15 mph at most times.


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## redwards (Sep 22, 2013)

deerhunter79 said:


> ....... i cant beileve how the this country is making all of its money off of fees...




Then contact your Congressman...


> *We the People of the United States,*
> in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
> 
> Article I
> ...


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## mtr3333 (Sep 23, 2013)

Paymaster said:


> Not your first time, I take it?



My thought was what did he do to - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - the DNR off so bad to want to ticket him in the 1st place? I've met most of them in the area and they have all been top notch gentlemen.


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## papachaz (Sep 23, 2013)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> You are confused or were mis-informed.



not confused, that's exactly what he told me.  He was pretty adamant that he was losing his LEO capacity and didn't want to deal with some of the problems associated with his job when he did.


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## oldschoolshovel (Sep 23, 2013)

EGlock86 said:


> Listen to him ^



I call - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -. Thats what's wrong now nobody wants to fight for what is right. And your right about seatbelts busses don't have them or motorcycles. You didn't have to have them on in trucks till Tom Murffery died. Don't believe me look it up


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## HighCotton (Sep 23, 2013)

I would fight it.

If you end up paying the $125 anyway, so what?  At least you tried and didn't roll over and play dead for them.

Heck, it's worth your time to have even a small chance to get off or pay less.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2013)

Since baiting is pretty much allowed now days, about all that is left for them to chase are vehicle offenses.

BTW, does anybody know if you can ride in the back of a pick-up anymore in Georgia?


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2013)

I found it.  Had you been riding in the back with no seatbelt you would have been fine.  That is the problem with our officers.  They just don't use good judgment.


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## nhancedsvt (Sep 23, 2013)

Wait, so just so I have this right. You now know you violated the law, you know the fine was the correct amount, yet you still want to fight it? My Daddy taught me something as a young kid about taking responsibility for your actions. Yes it's a dumb law, but it's a law nonetheless and you knew when you got it and didn't put on your seat belt that you were in violation of the law.


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## swampstalker24 (Sep 23, 2013)

You'd be a fool to try and fight a seat belt ticket in court.  Especially after confessing to it on a public internet forum.  Just pay the dang fine and wear your seat belt nest time!


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## Backlasher82 (Sep 23, 2013)

Well, this thread is certainly bringing out the potty mouths.


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## swalker1517 (Sep 23, 2013)

Backlasher82 said:


> Well, this thread is certainly bringing out the potty mouths.



Almost as bad as the political forum.


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## deerbandit (Sep 23, 2013)

10 more minutes and we will be on page three about a dang seatbelt ticket. Just pay the fine and move on, you already admitted to breaking the law. Yes I understand the want to fight it but really is it that important to take a day off work drive to Rome sit in court all day to still wind up having to pay the ticket then drive back with your tail between your legs?


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## mtr3333 (Sep 23, 2013)

Backlasher82 said:


> Well, this thread is certainly bringing out the potty mouths.



Does that - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - you off?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Sep 23, 2013)

swalker1517 said:


> Almost as bad as the political forum.


Link please.


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## yellowhammer73 (Sep 23, 2013)

CRIMINOLES said:


> Seat belt laws are stupid !!! There are no seat belts on school buses but you as a grown man better have one on on a dirt road !!! - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - ? Is wrong with this country





I disagree with your statement. The current seat belt law is not intended to save your life but to make sure you have a better chance of vehicle control during an accident. What that means is if you have a wreck you can, hopefully, keep control of your truck and not hit anyone else.
Oh and buses don't have seat belts for passengers only the driver. Again vehicle control.


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## Thanatos (Sep 23, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> So all of that and I'm still not sure if I should fight it. Why do they make the laws so complicated and obscure?!



Because lawyers wright the laws so that you need a lawyer to read them.


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## oldfella1962 (Sep 23, 2013)

I feel your pain. I have to pay 300$ by October 16 for a traffic ticket. By the laws of "common sense" it's a sham, but the cop has me by a technicality. Just like a bar bet - nobody offers you to bet against them unless they know they can win. Thus the cop isn't going to write a ticket unless he knows he has you by the short hairs. 

It's not worth taking off work to fight a losing battle, knowing nobody wants to hear my theory about common sense...which has nothing to do with traffic laws most of the time anyway.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 23, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> Wait, so just so I have this right. You now know you violated the law, you know the fine was the correct amount, yet you still want to fight it? My Daddy taught me something as a young kid about taking responsibility for your actions. Yes it's a dumb law, but it's a law nonetheless and you knew when you got it and didn't put on your seat belt that you were in violation of the law.





swampstalker24 said:


> You'd be a fool to try and fight a seat belt ticket in court.  Especially after confessing to it on a public internet forum.  Just pay the dang fine and wear your seat belt nest time!



Wow, you guys don't read very well do you?  Maybe you didn't learn well enough in school?  

If you read my last post, I stated on what grounds I MIGHT or COULD fight this, in accordance with the law.  

And that argument is that I was NOT breaking the law. The law clearly states that if I am frequently entering / exiting the vehicle and driving less than 15 mph, there is NO VIOLATION.  Why is that hard to wrap your mind around??


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## Kimbolicious (Sep 23, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I know some of you are experts on the law, I am not.  Please help me out here.
> 
> So I was on a gravel road on a wma and came up on a DNR check point.  Because I had been hopping in and out of the truck scouting, taking pictures of the views etc., I was not wearing my seat belt.  They checked me out and handed me a citation for not wearing a seat belt.
> 
> ...


Right is right and wrong is wrong!!!! I think they are just trying to make money off you!!! I say fight it and share the results with us. It may save one of us some grief one day as well.


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## Lilly Pad (Sep 24, 2013)

wife had a lump removed from her right breast, on the way home from surgery she had the seat belt across her lap hooked but the part going down the front diagonally it was sort of behind her as it bothered her. State Trooper saw us at a red light,pulled us over,gave me ticket for an inproper use of a seat belt and said he didnt want to hear the excuse,even offered to show him the doctors papers for the follow up after surgery. Might be the law, but some times common sense has to come in to the picture also


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## Chris Kalinski (Sep 24, 2013)

Do all these "POTTY MOUTHS " get a demerit on this Forum??


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## Backlasher82 (Sep 24, 2013)

mtr3333 said:


> Does that - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - you off?



No.


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## triton196 (Sep 24, 2013)

joedublin said:


> Is it a violation if the road you are on is entirely on the hunting land that you are leasing...not a public road?



no it is private only dui and things like that are against law on private prop or roads


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## nhancedsvt (Sep 24, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Wow, you guys don't read very well do you?  Maybe you didn't learn well enough in school?
> 
> If you read my last post, I stated on what grounds I MIGHT or COULD fight this, in accordance with the law.
> 
> And that argument is that I was NOT breaking the law. The law clearly states that if I am frequently entering / exiting the vehicle and driving less than 15 mph, there is NO VIOLATION.  Why is that hard to wrap your mind around??



Did you know the 15 mph law existed before you got the ticket? Did you know it was required by law that you wear a seat belt before you got the ticket? 

The fact is when you got in your truck and drive without a seat belt you knew you were breaking the law and even subconsciously you knew you could get a ticket. Man up, admit you were wrong, and learn your lesson.


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## Atlanta Dawg (Sep 24, 2013)

*You are in the third day......*



mpwarrak said:


> Ok, I know some of you are experts on the law, I am not.  Please help me out here.
> 
> So I was on a gravel road on a wma and came up on a DNR check point.  Because I had been hopping in and out of the truck scouting, taking pictures of the views etc., I was not wearing my seat belt.  They checked me out and handed me a citation for not wearing a seat belt.
> 
> ...



Have you called to find out exactly what the fine is ?  If you have not--you should and personally-I would not tell them what the fellow wrote in there-I would wait to see if they ask.  Based upon the response you can then figure out what you actually need to do to resolve this.  Let us know when handled .....we are on a need to know basis here!!


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## JustUs4All (Sep 24, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Wow, you guys don't read very well do you?  Maybe you didn't learn well enough in school?
> 
> If you read my last post, I stated on what grounds I MIGHT or COULD fight this, in accordance with the law.
> 
> And that argument is that I was NOT breaking the law. The law clearly states that if I am frequently entering / exiting the vehicle and driving less than 15 mph, there is NO VIOLATION.  Why is that hard to wrap your mind around??



I have now changed my mind.  I think you should fight it out in US District Court, which is where you would be headed by the way.  When you loose there you should appeal it to the Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit.  When you loose there you should file a Petition for Writ of Certiorari with the US Supreme Court which will be denied.  Then you should come tell us how much you accomplished.


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## Fenderbuilt27 (Sep 24, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> Did you know the 15 mph law existed before you got the ticket? Did you know it was required by law that you wear a seat belt before you got the ticket?
> 
> The fact is when you got in your truck and drive without a seat belt you knew you were breaking the law and even subconsciously you knew you could get a ticket. Man up, admit you were wrong, and learn your lesson.



I'm glad our forefathers didn't think this way. If they did we'd still be paying taxes to Great Britain


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## nhancedsvt (Sep 24, 2013)

Fenderbuilt27 said:


> I'm glad our forefathers didn't think this way. If they did we'd still be paying taxes to Great Britain



What does that have to do with a seat belt law? The man knowingly broke a law and then came on GON to whine about the penalty for his actions. Then he spent who knows how long trying to find a way to get out of paying the price for doing what he knew he shouldn't have. 

I agree, the ticket is pretty dumb and the fine sucks, BUT he knew he was breaking the law and should be prepared to accept the consequences. You people remind me of the parents suing the former NFL player because their kids destroyed his house and he called them out. Nobody takes responsibility anymore.


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## Throwback (Sep 24, 2013)

JustUs4All said:


> I have now changed my mind.  I think you should fight it out in US District Court, which is where you would be headed by the way.  When you loose there you should appeal it to the Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit.  When you loose there you should file a Petition for Writ of Certiorari with the US Supreme Court which will be denied.  Then you should come tell us how much you accomplished.



This

T


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## swampstalker24 (Sep 24, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> What does that have to do with a seat belt law? The man knowingly broke a law and then came on GON to whine about the penalty for his actions. Then he spent who knows how long trying to find a way to get out of paying the price for doing what he knew he shouldn't have.
> 
> I agree, the ticket is pretty dumb and the fine sucks, BUT he knew he was breaking the law and should be prepared to accept the consequences. You people remind me of the parents suing the former NFL player because their kids destroyed his house and he called them out. Nobody takes responsibility anymore.



Yea, when I read about that it almost made me sick to my stomach.  There are some real losers in this world.


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## Fenderbuilt27 (Sep 24, 2013)

swampstalker24 said:


> Yea, when I read about that it almost made me sick to my stomach.  There are some real losers in this world.



I'm a grown man and I don't need a law to tell me weather or not I need to wear a seatbelt according to what I'm doing. I don't think there should be a seatbelt law unless you are under 18 or have someone in the vehical with you that is. It's real easy to sit behind a keyboard and call people "loser"  but if that makes you feel good about yourself go ahead. I spent four years defending this country to allow you to do so.


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## Fenderbuilt27 (Sep 24, 2013)

nhancedsvt said:


> What does that have to do with a seat belt law? The man knowingly broke a law and then came on GON to whine about the penalty for his actions. Then he spent who knows how long trying to find a way to get out of paying the price for doing what he knew he shouldn't have.
> 
> I agree, the ticket is pretty dumb and the fine sucks, BUT he knew he was breaking the law and should be prepared to accept the consequences. You people remind me of the parents suing the former NFL player because their kids destroyed his house and he called them out. Nobody takes responsibility anymore.


It's not hard to figure out. Put a little thought into it. I bet you're going to love Obama Care also.


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## swampstalker24 (Sep 24, 2013)

Fenderbuilt27 said:


> I'm a grown man and I don't need a law to tell me weather or not I need to wear a seatbelt according to what I'm doing. I don't think there should be a seatbelt law unless you are under 18 or have someone in the vehical with you that is. It's real easy to sit behind a keyboard and call people "loser"  but if that makes you feel good about yourself go ahead. I spent four years defending this country to allow you to do so.



Sorry bud, my comment was directed at the football players house being ransacked by a bunch of hooligans, not the silly seat belt issue.  But you know what they say “a bit dog will holler”.


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## Nerf Warrior (Sep 24, 2013)

Fenderbuilt27 said:


> I'm a grown man and I don't need a law to tell me weather or not I need to wear a seatbelt according to what I'm doing. I don't think there should be a seatbelt law unless you are under 18 or have someone in the vehical with you that is. It's real easy to sit behind a keyboard and call people "loser"  but if that makes you feel good about yourself go ahead. I spent four years defending this country to allow you to do so.


Doesn't matter what law is in place someone is gonna complain because "its the government telling them what to do".  And every law on the books are put in place for everyone except the ones breaking them.  The seatbelt law not only helps protect your physical self but it also saves the tax payers money (if belts are worn) in they way that the state wont have to send you a check every month when you are paralyzed from the neck down or you are a vegetable with no quality of life.  I have worked on an ambulance for the past 20 years on I-75 and have seen how seatbelts have made a difference.  So yes you do have a right to not wear them but I should have the same right to not pay for your disability and Medicaid.


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## ImageMaster (Sep 24, 2013)

Gravel FS road and I-75 are miles apart......Pun intended


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## Nerf Warrior (Sep 24, 2013)

ImageMaster said:


> Gravel FS road and I-75 are miles apart......Pun intended



Same laws apply..


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## ImageMaster (Sep 24, 2013)

Spoken like a good "citizen".


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## leftystar (Sep 24, 2013)

The ranger was just being a - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -. But hey you broke the law.


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## mpwarrak (Sep 24, 2013)

Goodness, all you potty mouths! 
Something about this thread is bringing out the worst in people, whether it be potty mouths or just mean - spirited.  

For goodness sake, we're talking about a $100 ticket that a complete stranger got, not who's trying to marry your 16 year old daughter. Cool down some of ya'll, you know who you are.  

So anyway, thanks for all the help, encouragement, support, disgust, anger, resentment, slander, griping, and other assorted emotions and entertainment!!

As for me, I truly thought at first that this officer was out of whack, because I read GA's law saying max fine $15.  
But thanks to SOME of you, and some research, as I outlined in previous posts, I found out the laws as they were.
In other words, since the FEDERAL government has there hands in the NATIONAL forest service roads, they figure out a way to get more money than the more common-sensible GA politicians did.

Ok, that's a victory for me right there.  I love learning, and I thoroughly enjoyed studying the laws, and have a much better understanding of how they work.  

Secondly, I hope that many other people in google searches will find this info much more quickly than I did, in the event something similar happens to them.

Lastly, I PROBABLY will just pay the fine, mainly because my workload has recently increased, and I already have hardly any time for hunting.  Preparing for and going to Rome to have a small chance at winning is not worth it, as many of you have already stated.

Now my CURIOUS side wants to fight it and see what happens, maybe if I was retired I would do it just because I had the time.  I know many of you would be curious as well to see what a judge says.

Also, the 15 mph argument is probably a stretch, I likely exceeded that at times on that road, and as a Christian, my conscience would bother me if I argued that.
Furthermore, although I may question their actions, I have the utmost respect of law enforcement officials.  Some do their jobs well, others not so much, but  I respect the position, even if I don't respect the individual.  I don't agree with a lot of laws out there, but I will not engage in slandering officers, who put their lives at risk to protect others, even if they write petty tickets when they're bored!

*And another thing!  I am fully aware that whatever decision i make about HALF the people on this forum won't like it, and will have something negative to say. * Of course, for some of you I could say the sky is blue and you would have something negative to say.

In conclusion, thank you all again, and to those of you who said it was a WASTE OF TIME to research this, I now cease and desist from WASTING MY TIME  by reading all these STUPID COMMENTS that are posted here!!!  Just kidding!


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## JustUs4All (Sep 25, 2013)

It is never a waste of time to educate oneself, but it would have been a complete waste of time to actually fight this one.


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## Chris Kalinski (Sep 25, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> common-sensible GA politicians



Now there is an oxymoron!!


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## The mtn man (Sep 25, 2013)

mpwarrak said:


> Goodness, all you potty mouths!
> Something about this thread is bringing out the worst in people, whether it be potty mouths or just mean - spirited.
> 
> For goodness sake, we're talking about a $100 ticket that a complete stranger got, not who's trying to marry your 16 year old daughter. Cool down some of ya'll, you know who you are.
> ...



I think everyone is just plain tired of govment trying to control every aspect of our lives, now there are some who think it's great, like others have said are good citizens, Myself I wouldn't fight it, I just think the citation is just stupid, I myself had a run in last year hunting Hancock co. Sherrif dept, had road block set up almost every weekend at the end of the road from our lease, deputies would just wave every car through until us NC boys pulled up then they would basically strip search us, after being stopped once, given the 3rd degree in 3 road blocks, they finally got me for "runnin a stop sign", at the intersection of 15 and 22, a log truck was sitting in intersection for some reason, couldn't see around actually had road blocked, I needed to turn right, 2 locals (you know what I mean by that), just rolled slowly through the stop sign with (there bass thumpin, and there wheels spinnin), because no one could see around stopped log truck, I was 3rd in line, was a local behing me, we all did the same, I saw the deputy car sitting on side of the road, the car behind me passed me in a no passing zone, the deputies, (there were 2) got behind me and pulled me over, jumped out like I was wanted by the UN, searched the bed of my truck, wrote me a ticket for runnin a stop sign, I asked the younger deputy who was writing the ticket if he saw the other violations, he just ignored me, the old grey headed one would just say, do not get out of the vehicle sir, over and over. I just paid the fine, the probate judge was nice though, NC running a stop sign is 4points on record, Judge had me send her a coppy of my driving record, which costed me 20 bucks, to her, she reduced the charge if I would just pay the fine,  hopefully it's over, maybe Our club members won't be harrased this year, I wasn;t the only one.Just another example of a small town trying to get some revenue off the visitors.


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## bhdawgs (Sep 25, 2013)

It's just another way of the government to get money off us.  You think they care if you are actually breaking a speed limit ?   

Google New Hampshire -  this crap wouldn't and doesn't happen in their state!!


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## 1222DANO (Sep 25, 2013)

i know its beating a dead horse but if it bothers you that bad in the past i have went to them and told them i felt it was unfair and what my situation was or is and they'll reduce it or help you some. alot of times people aren't as heartless as some these ppl on here. if you goto the chief not the indian. not saying it works everytime but never hurts. hundred isn't nothing to some these guys but its alot to me. alot of people lay down to the goverment like some on here its how we're losing our rights restricted land, man can't fly american flag, and so on. i complain anytime i feel like i'm being ran over by goverment and it might not do nothing but atleast they know how i feel in a peaceful and grateful way. i'm sure his superior would like to know how you was treated and if he could have done things better in your situation.


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## hylander (Sep 25, 2013)

Here is my two cents and take it for what it is worth.  There are times to fight something and times not to.  Know when to pick your battles.  When it comes to the U.S. Goverment or even the state Goverment, there does come a time for people to stand up and challenge them, else they will abuse the power we as citizens have bestowed upon them.  But always remember to choose those battles wisely.


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## Throwback (Sep 10, 2016)

Update?


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## ripplerider (Sep 10, 2016)

After reading this I guess I'll be wearing my seatbelt on Forest Service rds. from now on. Dont get me wrong I firmly believe in wearing a seatbelt on the highway, but I seldom wear it when driving slowly down a Forest Service rd. I have talked to game wardens several times on the local WMAs when I didnt have it on and they never mentioned it. I can see a Forest Service enforcement agent having a different attitude about it though.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 10, 2016)

It's to protect the chirrun.


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## LTZ25 (Sep 10, 2016)

Who doesn't wear a seat belt now ?


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## Buck Dropper (Sep 10, 2016)

Throwback said:


> Update?



After understanding the laws, he paid the ticket. It's above your reply.


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## Throwback (Sep 10, 2016)

Buck Dropper said:


> After understanding the laws, he paid the ticket. It's above your reply.



He said he would PROBABLY pay the fine.


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## Buck Dropper (Sep 10, 2016)

Throwback said:


> He said he would PROBABLY pay the fine.



I figured he would have updated it if indeed he fought it and won, or fought and lost.


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## ddavis1120 (Sep 10, 2016)

Buck Dropper said:


> I figured he would have updated it if indeed he fought it and won, or fought and lost.



Maybe or Judge Murphy might have sentenced him to hard time in a maximum security prison with no internet privileges.


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## garveywallbanger (Sep 14, 2016)

Take the time off of work and fight the ticket...those jokers dont want to be in court any more than you do. You can outlast them and if you can build a case on doubt as to whether it is a road or interior wma road you will beat it. Game wardens with guns are nothing more than police and do very little to enhance this states natural resources other than revenue generation. I wish you the best of luck sir.


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## blood on the ground (Sep 14, 2016)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Just wait til' all of the DNR / WRD officers are turned into full fledged LEO's under the new restructuring of GaDNR. I said it before and it got poo-pooed by some naysayers. It has nothing more to do with game management and everything to do with revenue generation.



More taxes


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## spearjunky (Sep 14, 2016)

I had a ticket 1 time that the only thing right on it was my name and asked a cop buddy of mine and he said pay it cause if you are one of the first up sometimes the judge will make a example out of them to cut down on stupid he said its funny to watch people leave after that


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## elfiii (Sep 14, 2016)

Throwback said:


> Update?


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## kiltman (Sep 14, 2016)

"bump" for page 7!


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## Slowmow24 (Sep 14, 2016)

Have steve seals pay that thing and you will be just fine. i wouldn't even worry about it he got plenty of money.


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## Crakajak (Sep 14, 2016)

You should have taken the 6 months in prison instead of paying the fine,IF it was after deer season .


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