# Yamaha motor Question???



## jonkayak (Jan 15, 2010)

I have found a great deal on a 2010 2 stroke Yamaha 90hp boat motor that has me thinking. Normally I wouldn't throw out the price but for $6k + taxes it is installed w/controls and alum prop. I really wanted the 4 stroke but this dealer has 1 2 stroke left thats brand new still in the create and they want it gone. I'm thinking about getting it but not sure if I want to go the 2 stroke route again. What's your thoughts? Would you do it to save $4000.00 over a newer 4 stroke?


If anyone now of a good but used Yamaha 115-150hp I'm in the market for one of those as well.


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## seaweaver (Jan 15, 2010)

It depends on what you are putting it on.
That plant is one of the best made.
I know 3 Yam Mech. and they all love it and the power /weight ratio is hard to beat.


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## jonkayak (Jan 15, 2010)

It would be going on my Carolina Skiff 198elite.


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## Nautical Son (Jan 15, 2010)

Thats a really good deal....and you can't beat the yammie 2 stroke....well almost....you could go with a 115 Etec...

Or you could buy my Sea Chaser 175 with a 90 Etec and some electronics for $700.00 more than what your paying and there's no taxes....


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## d-a (Jan 15, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> I have found a great deal on a 2010 2 stroke Yamaha 90hp boat motor that has me thinking. Normally I wouldn't throw out the price but for $6k + taxes it is installed w/controls and alum prop. I really wanted the 4 stroke but this dealer has 1 2 stroke left thats brand new still in the create and they want it gone. I'm thinking about getting it but not sure if I want to go the 2 stroke route again. What's your thoughts? Would you do it to save $4000.00 over a newer 4 stroke?
> 
> 
> If anyone now of a good but used Yamaha 115-150hp I'm in the market for one of those as well.



depends on if its a carburetor motor or the HPDI. The latter is generally only a grand less than the 4 strokes.

I wouldn't want the troubles of E-10 gas and a carburetor motor now a days.  The HPDI get almost the same fuel economy as the four strokes but you will have less maintenance and an higher oil bill.

If you know the model # of the motor you can look it up and see.


One other thing, you should check with Carolina skiff to see how much weight your transom can hold. Some of the older boats don't do well with the extra weight of a four stroke.


d-a


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## jonkayak (Jan 15, 2010)

d-a said:


> depends on if its a carburetor motor or the HPDI. The latter is generally only a grand less than the 4 strokes.
> 
> I wouldn't want the troubles of E-10 gas and a carburetor motor now a days.  The HPDI get almost the same fuel economy as the four strokes but you will have less maintenance and an higher oil bill.
> 
> ...



The boat is a little over a year old (09 model) and actually had a Suzuki 4 stroke dangling on it  I had that removed and am replacing it. So I don't think weight will be an issue. 

The motor is a - "Fuel/Induction System, Carb Loop Charged" according to the specs.  Not sure what that means exactly but it does say "Carb" so that might be a deal killer there.


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## HOBO (Jan 15, 2010)

.... The smallest HPDI Yamaha has ever manufactured is a 150.....  

The Yamaha 90 two-stroke is a very dependable, bullet proof workhorse....

I have it's little brother, the 70 two-stroke, on my 17' Maverick HPX-T and have never had a any problems burning the ethanol  gas in it and I log at least three trips every week on it....  Oh yeah,,,, and it's a 2000 model....

----------<" ){{{{*><


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## Pineyrooter (Jan 15, 2010)

Those are great engines and having had both type engines I'd likely go with the 2 stroke and save some cash. The 4 stroke in the same hp or a bit more isnt too big for that boat either. The 4s is a great engine as well and I own both but for the diffrence in price I'd go 2 stroke 90. Lets say you buy the engine and hate it (which you wont) you can always trade up. Those engines are strong! By the way, a new 4s in a 90 shouldnt be $10,000 with controls, an alum prop and taxes.


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## bouymarker (Jan 16, 2010)

I just don't see where there's any need for thinking about it, save 4000.00, for a yamaha?


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## seaweaver (Jan 16, 2010)

That motor will push the carolina just fine. No need for a dole fin..as the boat is one!
The only thing you need to watch for is letting your gas sit too long and gaining water. Get a canister fuel filter w/ the plastic see-thru bowl on the bottom so you cabn see what's happening in there. NOT by looking...but by draining a bit into a cup from the Filter bowl  drain. keep up w/ the filters, run the carbs dry...you will never have a problem. good find!

cw


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## seaweaver (Jan 16, 2010)

What happened to the Suz.4?
cw


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## jonkayak (Jan 16, 2010)

seaweaver said:


> What happened to the Suz.4?
> cw



It had a vapor lock issue. Other then that I'm really not suppose to say much but you can go back and see in another thread about the issues I had with it, and to keep the story short I guess you could say I won the battle.  So now it's time for another new mew motor. As far as the fuel/water separator goes I had a nice one installed last year while fighting to keep the Suzuki running. I try to always check it before we go out and I always have and extra filter on hand. 


Sounds like most of you like the 2 stroke Yamaha. I might just go with that motor.


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## pottydoc (Jan 16, 2010)

My brother has a 90 carbed yammy on his flats boat. The Boat and motor are 1992. The yam has an easy 2000 hours on it, and has been almost flawless. No major engine problems, just some stuff with the T&T, and a "small" lower unit problem when he hit a oyster bar doing about 40.


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## Nautical Son (Jan 17, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> It had a vapor lock issue. Other then that I'm really not suppose to say much but you can go back and see in another thread about the issues I had with it, and to keep the story short I guess you could say I won the battle.  So now it's time for another new mew motor. As far as the fuel/water separator goes I had a nice one installed last year while fighting to keep the Suzuki running. I try to always check it before we go out and I always have and extra filter on hand.
> 
> 
> Sounds like most of you like the 2 stroke Yamaha. I might just go with that motor.




never heard of being sworn to secrecy over a warranty/performance issue before...

more like they don't want everybody hitting them up for new motors cause those Zukis are a PITB....my cuz had a 25hp on his J16 and he had to replace the carbs at a cost of $900.00 within 6 months of buying the stupid thing.....Zuki said it was damage caused by water in the fuel....10 micron filter and all.......


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## jamrens (Jan 17, 2010)

fron what i understand they bought his susuckie back on the condition he kept his mouth shut on public fourms.. i know he fought them tooth and nail for almost a year, to finally get them to do the rite thing..


Whit


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## Nautical Son (Jan 17, 2010)

jamrens said:


> fron what i understand they bought his susuckie back on the condition he kept his mouth shut on public fourms.. i know he fought them tooth and nail for almost a year, to finally get them to do the rite thing..
> 
> 
> Whit



They'd have to duct tape my fingers.....


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## kirt (Jan 18, 2010)

Hope I dont have any problems with my suzuki.  I have a 140 on and action craft 1720.  No problems yet and the motor is an 04.  Hopefully its hit and miss.  I talked to a rental boat guy in the keys and he said he had over 3k hours on each of 2 boats he has with suzuki's and has never had a problem.  If I had to buy a new 115 I would buy a yamaha 4 stroke.  I wouldnt want a yamaha over a 115 unless it was 4 stroke however.  Not a fan of their HPDI.  I love their carbed motors 115 and under though.  I got a great deal on my suzuki which is why I went with it.  I like the fact that it shaves off close to a 100 pounds over any comparable motor especially the 135 optimax it came with which has the 2.5 litre block.  Oh and hitting the key once and firing up every time is good too....


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## PaulD (Jan 18, 2010)

The 90 h.p. Yamaha is a great motor! Probably the best motor in that size class that has ever been made. I wouldn't think twice about owning one! Talk to any machanic, they'll tell you the same. A 4 stroke on a flats boat is a ridiculous idea. More weight and less torque. Get the 90.


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## jonkayak (Jan 18, 2010)

Well guys it looks like the 90hp Yamaha deal is a bust. It has a 20" shaft and I have a 25" transom. Oh well still looking. I really want a 115 or better any ways. Back to searching and looking. There is another deal on twin 50hp yamahas, now that would be neat if it would work.


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## kirt (Jan 19, 2010)

PaulD said:


> The 90 h.p. Yamaha is a great motor! Probably the best motor in that size class that has ever been made. I wouldn't think twice about owning one! Talk to any machanic, they'll tell you the same. A 4 stroke on a flats boat is a ridiculous idea. More weight and less torque. Get the 90.



I wouldn't say it is rediculous, if he got a 115  fourstroke he would only gain about 50 pounds I believe.  Less torque is a downside but reliability more than makes up for it.  Two strokes are on their way out IMO.  Like I said in my earlier post, I like the 115 and below two strokes, but given the choice, i would go with a four.  I dont think 50 pounds on a 20 foot skiff will make a big impact.  I suppose if I didnt mind the repair bills so much I would rather have a two stroke though.  You just dont see many of them with over a thousand hours though.


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## Nautical Son (Jan 19, 2010)

Jon, ther is a place in Deleware thats specializes in "new" older outboards....non current year model I believe is the terminology they use try a google search....also check out Iboats for special buys.


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## PaulD (Jan 20, 2010)

kirt said:


> I wouldn't say it is rediculous, if he got a 115  fourstroke he would only gain about 50 pounds I believe.  Less torque is a downside but reliability more than makes up for it.  Two strokes are on their way out IMO.  Like I said in my earlier post, I like the 115 and below two strokes, but given the choice, i would go with a four.  I dont think 50 pounds on a 20 foot skiff will make a big impact.  I suppose if I didnt mind the repair bills so much I would rather have a two stroke though.  You just dont see many of them with over a thousand hours though.



A 4stoke 115 weights 402 pounds
A 2 stroke 90 weights 261 pounds

By my math thats 131 pounds difference, which is almost 3 times a 50 pound difference.

Might want to look at the newer 2 stokes. I know where a 90 is right now with about 2000 hours on it and it never burped. Also I have several friends that like myself run a High pressure injection 2 stroke motor and the fuel economy is as good if not better than the same H.P. four stroke. Then there is the true weight to horse power ratio equation you have to look at. The 90 H.P. 2 stoke is usually putting out around 93-98 HP at the foot where as the 115 4 stoke is probably putting out around 105-108 h.p. at the foot with less torque. So you are basically adding more 131 ( a 4 stroke 115 is 402 pounds and a 2 stroke 90 is 261 pounds) pounds of weight off the back of the boat and not gaining anything out of it when the objective is to go light and plan quickly in a flats boat. Also the increase of 131 pounds hanging over the back of the boat effects it way more dramatically than say a 131 pound cooler sitting in the middle of the boat due to the fact that the motor is at an extreme in relation to the center of gravity and axis of the boat.............what do I know though.


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## XTREME HUNTER (Jan 20, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> Well guys it looks like the 90hp Yamaha deal is a bust. It has a 20" shaft and I have a 25" transom. Oh well still looking. I really want a 115 or better any ways. Back to searching and looking. There is another deal on twin 50hp yamahas, now that would be neat if it would work.



2 motors is twice the maintenance, I get reminded of that every time.  Good luck with your search


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## Nautical Son (Jan 20, 2010)

PaulD said:


> A 4stoke 115 weights 402 pounds
> A 2 stroke 90 weights 261 pounds
> 
> By my math thats 131 pounds difference, which is almost 3 times a 50 pound difference.
> ...




Yeah what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and remember an Etec is a 2 stroke high pressure injected motor...all those infomercials aren't wrong...


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## kirt (Jan 20, 2010)

by 50 pounds I was referring to the difference between the 115 2 stroke and 115 four stroke.   I am not familiar with his boat, but I looked up a few 19-20 footers and they are rated for 115.  The width of that hull should compensate for the extra weight considering a power increase.  An extreme example would be if you took a 30 foot contender and put one 250 on it.  Would it get on plane that much shallower than if it had two 250s??  Not the same  scenario but the reasoning is the same.  I am just saying that if he was comparing 115s the difference is not that much.  All else equal though there should be no arguing that a 4 stroke is more reliable though.  I am sure someone knows of one two stroke having 2000 hours but you would need an average.  I dont have access to one but I would side that there would be a very large difference in the hours of usage gained from a four stroke.  I tend to believe direct injections get better fuel econ than four strokes, at least with optimax's.  But by the time you add the price of oil for a large 2 stroke it would cost more per gallon ran through the motor.  The smaller the motor the better for two stroke operating costs versus four stroke.


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## Pineyrooter (Jan 20, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> Well guys it looks like the 90hp Yamaha deal is a bust. It has a 20" shaft and I have a 25" transom. Oh well still looking. I really want a 115 or better any ways. Back to searching and looking. There is another deal on twin 50hp yamahas, now that would be neat if it would work.



If you havent already check with Eds. http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/yamaha.htm

Any idea how much a longer foot would be?


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## PaulD (Jan 20, 2010)

Kirt, he was originally asking about a 90. I'm not knocking your boat or your 4 stroke. Just trying in educate properly. Even if you are going to compair a 115 2 stroke and a 115 4 stroke you would be looking at adding 50+ pounds and losing up to 20% of your horse power and torque. Also the beam of his boat would have very little to due with muting the affects of the added weight of the motor as the hull weight and buoyancy is still equally uniform along the hull. The hull isn't a single plan axis you can't look at it like a horizontal pencil. You have to view it like a jack standing vertically on 1 point and all other points being variables where weight can be added or subtracted and there by affecting all the other points.


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## jamrens (Jan 20, 2010)

guys guys guys i come on here to talk to my fellow blue water fishermen and women not to get get a math lesson on physics..  so Pauly Jon knows whats up.. and why does everyone always want to argue with you?


Whit


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## PaulD (Jan 20, 2010)

And even then that's keeping it simple and not looking at a lot of hydrodynamic variables in performance, which really doesn't come into play or that he really doesn't need to worry about.


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## PaulD (Jan 20, 2010)

jamrens said:


> guys guys guys i come on here to talk to my fellow blue water fishermen and women not to get get a math lesson on physics..  so Pauly Jon knows whats up.. and why does everyone always want to argue with you?
> 
> 
> Whit




Sorry, couldn't help it, you know how I am when I get to going on boat speed and efficiency. I like science and going fast. It makes me happy.


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## kirt (Jan 21, 2010)

Sorry, I just didn't agree when you said it was ridiculous.  There are some instances when four strokes are lighter than two strokes in their class.  I actually prefer the performance of a two stroke contrary to what you might think, I just did what I thought was the wisest move and went to a four stroke as that is where the outboard boating world is heading.  I would probably still have a two stroke if they were as reliable as a four.  I mean if you really want performance in a flats boat above all else shouldnt you just get a L&B Boca and put a 300 xs on it?  I know I would if my wallet would let me but I like to fish and not let my boat sit at home so I chose the most bang for my buck imo.  Heck I even splurged and went with a 24 volt trolling motor over a 12 adding another batteries weight.  But i did cut almost 100#s by moving from a 135 opti (sucks they have to use the 2.5 litre block) to a 140 four stroke.   Oh and this is a really nice boat and motor combo. 

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999-Egret-18'9-95957155


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## d-a (Jan 21, 2010)

kirt said:


> There are some instances when four strokes are lighter than two strokes in their class.



I would like to find one (specifically in the 150HP range), its almost impossible since there is more moving parts required for a 4 stroke versus a 2 stroke and that adds to more weight.

d-a


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## seaweaver (Jan 21, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> Well guys it looks like the 90hp Yamaha deal is a bust. It has a 20" shaft and I have a 25" transom. Oh well still looking. I really want a 115 or better any ways. Back to searching and looking. There is another deal on twin 50hp yamahas, now that would be neat if it would work.



great scott man...don't you own a chain saw?
Or buy a fixed bracket or have something simple made?
I knew a fella that made a bracket from a small section of I beam. He painted it w/ coal tar epoxy and kept moving.

cw


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## jonkayak (Jan 21, 2010)

Pual I'm with you on the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing as far as weight to power. I have been on the same boat that I have only with a 2 stroke 90 yamaha and it would flat out move better then mine did with the 4 stroke 115 suckie on the back. All I could figure at the time was the added weight had something to do with it. 



seaweaver said:


> great scott man...don't you own a chain saw?
> Or buy a fixed bracket or have something simple made?
> I knew a fella that made a bracket from a small section of I beam. He painted it w/ coal tar epoxy and kept moving.
> 
> cw



I have a husky w/a 20" bar what do you have in mind?


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## kirt (Jan 21, 2010)

d-a said:


> I would like to find one (specifically in the 150HP range), its almost impossible since there is more moving parts required for a 4 stroke versus a 2 stroke and that adds to more weight.
> 
> d-a



Actually the 150 class is where it seems you start getting the most bang for your buck on weight to power in four strokes. I believe the F150's are the same weight as the Vmax 150 hpdi.  Like I said earlier I switched to a Suzuki DF 140 and dropped almost 100 pounds because the 135 optimax uses the same blocks, lower and mid sections as the 150,175 and 200 optimax.  If I could have got the same deal on the F-150 as I did the Suzuki I would have went with it probably.  It is almost 50 pounds heavier though than the DF140.


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## kirt (Jan 21, 2010)

On another note I did see a skiff with 2 50 hp or so motors on it once, it would be alot of maintenance and more money but ultra reliable.


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## d-a (Jan 21, 2010)

kirt said:


> Actually the 150 class is where it seems you start getting the most bang for your buck on weight to power in four strokes. I believe the F150's are the same weight as the Vmax 150 hpdi.  Like I said earlier I switched to a Suzuki DF 140 and dropped almost 100 pounds because the 135 optimax uses the same blocks, lower and mid sections as the 150,175 and 200 optimax.  If I could have got the same deal on the F-150 as I did the Suzuki I would have went with it probably.  It is almost 50 pounds heavier though than the DF140.



There the same weight, however the Vmax is a 6 cyl motor versus the four stroke's four cyl. In a true comparison the non Vmax 2 stroke is 40lbs lighter than the four stroke for the same Hp rating. 40lbs don't seem like a lot, but when you have 2 motors it adds up quickly.

d-a


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## jonkayak (Jan 21, 2010)

Pineyrooter said:


> If you havent already check with Eds. http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/yamaha.htm
> 
> Any idea how much a longer foot would be?



I called them and their online price is nothing like their actual price. If it was it would already be hanging on the back of the boat.


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## jonkayak (Jan 21, 2010)

kirt said:


> On another note I did see a skiff with 2 50 hp or so motors on it once, it would be alot of maintenance and more money but ultra reliable.



Ultra reliability is my goal. The cost of maintenance is small compared to a long paddle.  If I wanted super fast I would have bought a Danzi or Fountain or I'll just go down and ride around with Pual  .

Ok people how do I get twins on the back a smaller boat? Should I use a bracket of some sort. I think twins would be a little too wide for the 37" - 38" transom cutout. Twin 50 yamahas might work but I can not find how wide they are.


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## seaweaver (Jan 22, 2010)

Forget the twins, cut the transom w/ the chain saw. I could do it, and have it reglassed/gelcoated in 2 hours.
cw


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## d-a (Jan 22, 2010)

jonkayak said:


> Ultra reliability is my goal. The cost of maintenance is small compared to a long paddle.  If I wanted super fast I would have bought a Danzi or Fountain or I'll just go down and ride around with Pual  .
> 
> Ok people how do I get twins on the back a smaller boat? Should I use a bracket of some sort. I think twins would be a little too wide for the 37" - 38" transom cutout. Twin 50 yamahas might work but I can not find how wide they are.



http://www.armstrongnautical.com/brackets_2009.htm

d-a


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## boneboy96 (Jan 29, 2010)

PaulD said:


> A 4stoke 115 weights 402 pounds
> A 2 stroke 90 weights 261 pounds
> 
> By my math thats 131 pounds difference, which is almost 3 times a 50 pound difference.
> ...


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## T-Boy (Jan 29, 2010)

Personally,you will always find some differences in the two motors but in this case it would not even approach spending an extra $4000.

It would be a non issue with me. $6000 2 stroke.


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## DCOMP54 (Jan 30, 2010)

*Moderators , wake up.*

this ain't the motor boat section it's the Saltwater fishing section!


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## Papa Bear (Jan 30, 2010)

I have a 115 Yamaha 2 stroke on my boat and it has been one of the best engines I have ever owned. I have had all the major brands and use to be a Merc guy, but this little Yammy has changed my mine. I think the 115 and 90 are based on same block? I think you will be happy with your deal on left over stock.  Good Luck <><


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## Nooge (Jul 5, 2010)

I am also looking for a 200 hp or larger 4 stroke for my 23 ft Sea Fox. I have a 200 Merc 2 stroke that I want to sell or trade. I can't find any 200+ hp 4 strokes. Any one have any ideas or areas to look?


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## Nooge (Jul 5, 2010)

I've already tried eBay and Craigs List.


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## ejs1980 (Jul 5, 2010)

I hope you find what your looking for. I would consider the yamaha two strokes some of the most reliable engines out there. Yes you need to check the oil every time you go out. You will also go through alot of oil in the 15-20 years that engine should last. And a 90hp 2 stroke will outperform a 115hp 4 stroke on a boat with a slower speed hull design like your skiff. With the money you save on the engine I'm sure you can find a fancy jack plate to put on the back of it to make the 20 inch work.


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## spurandrack (Jul 6, 2010)

*take the two stroke*

your daddy and his daddy mixed gas and oil and ran outboards for many years. That motor is one of the best.

4 strokes are much heavier with twice as many moving parts. The 2 strokes will make a comeback.


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## Juan De (Jul 7, 2010)

I have a 90 Yamaha 4 stroke, on my 1860 G3 CCT, and i love it nice to run flat out and be able to talk to the person sitting next to you, plus if you trying to slip in to a pocket  undetected to ambush a fish or 2  you cann't beat it


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## jonkayak (Jul 7, 2010)

Since this thread was resurrected I fill you guys in. I was about to go with the Yam 2 stroke since it was a steal but since it was short I decided to go 4 stroke. Anyways I put it off for a week then that turned into a few months because I got busy with work and life. Any ways I finally pulled the Trigger and ordered a new Yam 4 stroke 115hp about a week ago. The bad news is it back ordered and will tack 4 - 6 weeks to get it in and the real bad news is the digital controls they are installing are back ordered and should be in in 12 weeks. So some time in September I should have my boat and motor on the water. Oh well It's to hot to fish anyways


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## jonkayak (Mar 17, 2012)

After two years this ordeal may finally becoming to an end. After the last order was back ordered for months on end I canceled the order and got my deposit back. Then our business all but dried up and at that point I was a little tired of the whole mess. But as of this Saturday morning my boat is setting at the Marina and a 2012 Etec 115 will be mounted sometime next week.


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