# Question on bloodlines? Opinion needed.



## deast1988 (Aug 12, 2012)

What do yall think the best bloodline is for running southeastern rabbits. What are yalls opinions?

Personally I like run to catch style dogs.


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## Beagler282 (Aug 12, 2012)

You need to go and watch some of the dogs run from the guys on this board who run that style in different lines to see which line you like.


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## swampcat95 (Aug 13, 2012)

282 is right.  I notice you are from Social Circle.  The habitat there is a lot different than the habitat in Southeast GA where I am located.  In Southeast Georgia it is all about the dogs desire to bust the briar patch because that is where the rabbits are.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2012)

I prefer the run to catch style as well. Jen and I hunt WMA's most of the time and probably put a lot more rabbits into holes and trees than we would with a slower pack. It is the style I grew up with in Texas and hard for me to make a change.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2012)

Oh and deast1988, I don't keep up with bloodlines anymore for the most part. If I like the style of the parents, I will grab a pup or two from the litter and give it a shot. We just like to run the hounds, not walk or jog the hounds. 

We started from scratch when we moved to GA 4 yrs ago. Jen and I found a couple different rabbit hunters that ran a medium speed hound. We had them call us when they needed to cull a hound that was pulling their pack. It didn't take long to build a quick pack and without breaking the bank. Jen's favorite 2 hounds in the kennel cost us $200.00 and $50.00. One is AKC and the other is grade but neither of them are aware of it.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 13, 2012)

Well i Was Brought up, if it Puts Meat on the Table use, if it put meat on the table Raise it, if it put meat on the table hunt it, if it put meat on the table sale it!!!! What im trying to say is no particular bloodlines is better than the next, blood lines are titles, now one bloodlines might be more accomplished and established than the other!!!! But i have never saw papaers onr DNA VIALS RUN A RABBIT!!! But if i had to choose i  for the southeastern part of the country!!!! I would say Just get yourself a rabbitdog and have some fun doing what ya love!!!


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 13, 2012)

282 and Glenn are both right and are experts in the rabbit game. Its all about certain traits you like in a hound. I have alittle of everything in my pack; Branko, Big Wheel, Dingus McRae, Gay, Davis Bo and ofcourse "grade", etc......My favorite is my male Andy, he is Branko. I have 2 pups off of him now with my Big Wheel / Davis Bo female that are almost 5 months. Good lord willing, they will be the hounds to beat this fall.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2012)

Streetsweeper said:


> I have 2 pups off of him now with my Big Wheel / Davis Bo female that are almost 5 months. Good lord willing, they will be the hounds to beat this fall.



No, they will be the hounds to prove themselves this fall. The hounds to beat are way ahead of them. 

I am anxious to see how they do. That is why we raise pups. Anticipation!


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## deast1988 (Aug 13, 2012)

Davis Bo 111 is a great dog got a lot of traits that I like its one of the best. My opinion


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## Jody Hawk (Aug 13, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I prefer the run to catch style as well.



That's me as well. Y'all can keep them peanut rollers!


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2012)

Jody Hawk said:


> That's me as well. Y'all can keep them peanut rollers!



You gotta love'em!

I think that is one of Jimmy's hounds that got picked up at 1:28 mark for swinging.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 13, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> You gotta love'em!
> 
> I think that is one of Jimmy's hounds that got picked up at 1:28 mark for swinging.



Glen make sure your video Camera is Rolling the Weekend i come up with a Hound or three!!!! 

LOL YOU GOT ME GOOD ON THE PEANUT ROLLERS VIDOE!!!!


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 13, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> You gotta love'em!
> 
> I think that is one of Jimmy's hounds that got picked up at 1:28 mark for swinging.



I like a easier style hound, but that is just ridiculous.


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## johndu (Aug 13, 2012)

I beleve our dogs will be taking a nap waiting on those dogs to catch up. they need to go down to Plains GA and let the real Jimmy supply the peanuts.


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## beagler101 (Aug 13, 2012)

ive seen great dogs of all bloodlines, and some with no bloodlines at all (grade) but the bests ive seen have been out of the following, davis bo 111, big wheel, jim dandy, tadpole, homer, winston,,, but it depends on the dog himself, the way he is trained, and what you personally desire of your hound,


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 13, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> No, they will be the hounds to prove themselves this fall. The hounds to beat are way ahead of them.
> 
> I am anxious to see how they do. That is why we raise pups. Anticipation!



All I know is there are 2 of them and they are staying with us as of now.


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## John Slaughter (Aug 13, 2012)

glenn where did you get a video of my pack. at least you got a good one of them when they were really putting it down. they can slap fly in that terain. the one that i picked up was my branko male he was reaching a little to much.


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## swampcat95 (Aug 14, 2012)

Why did those guys need horses?  I would have been needing a chair because my back would have been killing me from standing around.  I believe my pet turtle could push a rabbit faster than that.


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## Ruger#3 (Aug 14, 2012)

Many years back an elderly friendly kept begging me to attend one those type trials. Season wasn't open so one October morning I went to accomadate a friend. What a nice bunch of folks, but at the jump everyones screaming "TallyHo" and picking up their dog to get them to the jump spot. The judge is tellng me we are going to recast our hounds if I want to carry mine over.

I told the judge no problem he will join in, I got an odd look. The whole lot is raising cane and didnt cover 20 foot over the next few minutes. My little male Davey runs over hits the scent and off he goes. Davey was not a wind splitter in fact he was a jump/check hound. He always was in the middle of the pack when the race was hot. To me a 5-6 dog when soloed.

Over the hill they go, walkie talkies stretched out over 100 ft not knowing what to do, run, slam on brakes, run, slam on brakes. I see Davey pushing the rabbit over the next hill and hear "Pickup ## hound."

The judge politely tells me my hound has no line control. I smiled and thanked him. I told him I knew I was in trouble when my dog was the only one there who had the state required hunting liscense on his collar and laughed.


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## Beagler282 (Aug 14, 2012)

I have a good friend of mine that has judged brace trials for many years and is known all over.He had me go to one with him many years ago and when the dogs got on the track and started barking I asked someone standing there "when are they going to take off and run the rabbit"? Boy did I get some ugly looks.I have since had him show me exactly what it was he was looking for and how they judge that style.Very interesting.I took him to a AKC Deep south spo trial and each time the cast was running he would pick the hounds that needed to move on and his pick would be the same as the judges and he also picked the winner that day before it was announced.Each format has it's own unique style but for rabbit hunting the brace type would make for a long day of hunting.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 14, 2012)

If you bred one of those Tortoise dogs to a Fast Hound you might have yourself something if you pick the right pup Hunh????????


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## deast1988 (Aug 14, 2012)

Not trying to down anyones pack. So Back to the run to catch style dogs. How would a Ranko or Bigwheel or Davis Bo 111 run agianst a Hummer or Loco Red or Magnum dog. Lets go a head and put Fireball in the mix. If it came to running to catch yalls opinions which one would be eating the rabbit. Im talking pushing hard not letting the rabbit catch a break.


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 14, 2012)

Big running rabbit, ie; swamper ............. in my opinion, a Branko. After all, just ask the pros, they are "Hare Hounds" not a real beagle. Im just going off what was posted on this board.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> Not trying to down anyones pack.


All in fun. If we couldn't rib each other about our hounds, I would just quit the sport. 



deast1988 said:


> So Back to the run to catch style dogs. How would a Ranko or Bigwheel or Davis Bo 111 run agianst a Hummer or Loco Red or Magnum dog. Lets go a head and put Fireball in the mix. If it came to running to catch yalls opinions which one would be eating the rabbit. Im talking pushing hard not letting the rabbit catch a break.


I don't know much about those hounds. I prefer to set my own standards and build from there. There are a lot of guys on this forum who have some nice hounds. I get to run with some of them and it is always a great time.


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 14, 2012)

I use to run a fast pack(7-9spd), and loved rabbit huntin them. After the 2009 season I made a change to a more conservative SPO style of hound(6-7spd), and like them even better. I have a lot smoother races with less checks if any, it seems they can circle a rabbit just as fast as the faster pack did because of that. But it's like someone else said its more about the individual dogs ability and not the blood line. There are good and bad dogs in every style and blood line, but it all boils down to personal opinion. I personally like Bullocks Creek, Rebel, Controller, Buzzsaw, & Otis. But there are a lot of good ones out there.


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## deast1988 (Aug 14, 2012)

I guess I just wanted to see what some other people thought, I look at it as "IF two not so intelligent people have a kid hows that kid going to come out." It could work either way smart, dumb, or dumber. I think bloodlines matter. And wanted to see yalls thoughts as to what yalls opinions of the known hounds were. Thanks for the info as to what yall thought the good blood lines were.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 14, 2012)

I run in SPO style trials. I can personally tell you mine don't run like those in the video. I'm the one that gets picked up for running too much rabbit. LOL I have a little female that has two wins and half her points in the Deep South. She was put in 7 trials, six winners with two wins and two thirds. She would make those horses run. Not all trials are like the one on the video. Dec 8th West Point Lake Beagle Club. Yall come check it out. Bring some dogs if they are A.K.C registered. Lagrange, Ga. Oh yeah, I run Stubby bred dogs.


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## Beagler282 (Aug 14, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> Not trying to down anyones pack. So Back to the run to catch style dogs. How would a Ranko or Bigwheel or Davis Bo 111 run agianst a Hummer or Loco Red or Magnum dog. Lets go a head and put Fireball in the mix. If it came to running to catch yalls opinions which one would be eating the rabbit. Im talking pushing hard not letting the rabbit catch a break.



Nothing wrong with any of these hounds but based upon that last sentence from what I have seen some of the Branko, Northway, Reffets and some of the other lines from up north push harder than anything I have seen. The Hare hounds are some of the strongest there is.Most of the dogs you listed do a fine job giving pursuit and putting pressure on a bunny and have good foot speed but I have seen dogs wayyyyyy stronger than them and mine that leave you scratching your head.If you were to run those strong hare hounds down here on cottontails you would get some bad races but they would probably give you some great swamper runs.People up north like breeding the hare hound with dogs from the south for a bigger nose as to where people in the south like breeding to hare hounds for more speed and grit.It's just a preference more than anything but it all boils down to finding something you like.Me personally I like the Branko crossed with Weir Creek hounds.

Big wheel, Bo III, Magnum, Hummer and Fireball are all just alike. Hard running hounds that get it done. From my days of running behind these dogs it could go either way on any given day if you were to put them all on the ground together.


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## John Slaughter (Aug 14, 2012)

ray that branko x weir creek is a good cross in my opion. ive got a litter on the groung like that(sire is branko and - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - is weir creek x tadpole). this is the 3rd litter and the last 2 turned out great.


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## deast1988 (Aug 14, 2012)

*Question on Bloolines? Opinion needed.*



Tater Bug said:


> I run in SPO style trials. I can personally tell you mine don't run like those in the video. I'm the one that gets picked up for running too much rabbit. LOL I have a little female that has two wins and half her points in the Deep South. She was put in 7 trials, six winners with two wins and two thirds. She would make those horses run. Not all trials are like the one on the video. Dec 8th West Point Lake Beagle Club. Yall come check it out. Bring some dogs if they are A.K.C registered. Lagrange, Ga. Oh yeah, I run Stubby bred dogs.



 You need to bring that female to an ARHA trial. That AKC is a real slow format. If you wanna see if she can keep up.


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## deast1988 (Aug 14, 2012)

John Slaughter said:


> ray that branko x weir creek is a good cross in my opion. ive got a litter on the groung like that(sire is branko and  is weir creek x tadpole). this is the 3rd litter and the last 2 turned out great.



Fixed it for ya. Like what Im seeing out of your dogs pups going strong.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2012)

John Slaughter said:


> ray that branko x weir creek is a good cross in my opion. ive got a litter on the groung like that(sire is branko and biatch is weir creek x tadpole). this is the 3rd litter and the last 2 turned out great.



Worthless without video.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> That AKC is a real slow format.



I haven't been to a field trial since the mid 80's. Our AKC club ran the faster style "Large Pack on Hare" format. SPO was just taking root in the area and were running a more medium speed hound. Living in South East Texas, I can't remember ever running a cottontail, all swampers. It was a big adjustment when I started running these little GA rabbits. Even the swampers here are smaller than I was use to.


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 14, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I haven't been to a field trial since the mid 80's. Our AKC club ran the faster style "Large Pack on Hare" format. SPO was just taking root in the area and were running a more medium speed hound. Living in South East Texas, I can't remember ever running a cottontail, all swampers. It was a big adjustment when I started running these little GA rabbits. Even the swampers here are smaller than I was use to.



It still depends on where you go,but for the most part hounds are quicker across the board. Deep South and UBGF run alittle faster harder hittin dog than standard SPO, but SPO is no longer a flat medium. It's more like an upper med - med fast depending on the area, but you better have a straight up the middle dog for SPO.


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## Beagler282 (Aug 15, 2012)

Deep South AKC SPO runs alot faster dog from years ago and still remain clean.I will never forget Ted Jackson who has been running AKC trials for years joined our ARHA PP club some years ago and brought a hound to the GA State and the South Regional and if I remember correctly won 1st place in both beating out all of the strong hounds from other states and even around here.After seeing his dog run and attending some AKC hunts there is not much difference in PP and SPO regarding the speed of the hounds but AKC likes them alot cleaner.Some of those Shorts Pro and Stubby bred dogs really impressed me on how they could get up and roll.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 15, 2012)

If you Want A good Swamper Dog, I would Go Branko,Northway, Patch, Blackcreek,Blue Ninja,SASSAFRASS,and DingusMcrae! Cottontail go withjust about any bloodline honestly no matter the speed!!!! I have seen a pack of Blackcreeks give a swamper the fits because they take there time on the line!!!! Ive seen patch hounds, Brankos,Northways,BlueNinjas,and Sassafrass hounds run a swamper and not be more than 20feet behind him the whole race!!! Like turtle man i would say in this case( NOW THATS WHAT I CALL LIVE ACTION) if you havent noticed im a Swamper Hunter


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 15, 2012)

If you Want A good Swamper Dog, I would Go Branko,Northway, Patch, Blackcreek,Blue Ninja,SASSAFRASS,and DingusMcrae! Cottontail go withjust about any bloodline honestly no matter the speed!!!! I have seen a pack of Blackcreeks give a swamper the fits because they take there time on the line!!!! Ive seen patch hounds, Brankos,Northways,BlueNinjas,and Sassafrass hounds run a swamper and not be more than 20feet behind him the whole race!!! Like turtle man i would say in this case( NOW THATS WHAT I CALL LIVE ACTION) if you havent noticed im a Swamper Hunter


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 15, 2012)

All I have to say is, I have a couple knuckle heads when it comes to a "clean" line. My red male will cut or swing to take the front. Not any "50 yard swing" stuff, but he will take it if possible. Andy my Branko male, is totally opposite. He doesn't mind running behind another hound. BUT if he gets the front, its over, he's going to check out. Glenn has seen him run on some swampers first hand. 

Some of you guys on here need to see "Glenn and Jens" hounds run first hand. Those girls can get it done!


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## Tater Bug (Aug 15, 2012)

Beagler282 said:


> Deep South AKC SPO runs alot faster dog from years ago and still remain clean.I will never forget Ted Jackson who has been running AKC trials for years joined our ARHA PP club some years ago and brought a hound to the GA State and the South Regional and if I remember correctly won 1st place in both beating out all of the strong hounds from other states and even around here.After seeing his dog run and attending some AKC hunts there is not much difference in PP and SPO regarding the speed of the hounds but AKC likes them alot cleaner.Some of those Shorts Pro and Stubby bred dogs really impressed me on how they could get up and roll.


Mr. Jackson is the breeder of my little female. She is a little much for him.lol


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## John Slaughter (Aug 15, 2012)

jimmy ballard jr said:


> If you Want A good Swamper Dog, I would Go Branko,Northway, Patch, Blackcreek,Blue Ninja,SASSAFRASS,and DingusMcrae!
> ive had a few blackcreek and they dont have half the foot as the other dogs you just named (except sassafrass and blue ninja never heard of those bloodlines but sound like they have foot to them)


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## gemcgrew (Aug 15, 2012)

John Slaughter said:


> ive had a few blackcreek and they dont have half the foot as the other dogs you just named (except sassafrass and blue ninja never heard of those bloodlines but sound like they have foot to them)



Marvics Blue Ninja is is out of Branko's Jack Of All Trades. No clue on Sassafras.


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## John Slaughter (Aug 15, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Marvics Blue Ninja is is out of Branko's Jack Of All Trades. No clue on Sassafras.


o ok so pretty much branko should have good foot. sassafras must be the name of a dog that has good foot. but the fastest true blackcreek dog ive ever seen was maybe a progressive pack speed.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 16, 2012)

I like black creek not because of how fast they are, but how methodical they are with the line and they also move pretty reasonable!!!! Sassafrass and Blue Ninja you havent heard of them slaughter???? Blue Ninja is more commom, but you find yourself a Sassafrass you have yourself a good base!!!!!


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

A fellow i know Clyde Burchette has started running akc SPO and has sold almost all his PP style hounds because they are to fast. He has had some really great PP hounds that anyone would love to own but In SPO they get picked up. I don't know exactly what speed SPO is but i do know PP style hounds are not working. I also would like to see how many blackcreek hounds are in th PP HOF or have made champions. Davis Bo III, Bigwheel ,JD thats where it's at i'm not saying this because this is what i run, These hounds have the hunt the foot and brains to get it done. I have a Bo male that is just a plain old champion  nothing fancy no hound of the year or HOF matertial that i guarantee no SPO champion will run in front of him. I will put him on the ground anyday. Just line them up and watch them get there heads busted. I'm free all weekend if there any taker's and have got plenty of places to run.


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 17, 2012)

Clyde does/did have some good hounds, a couple really nice ones. I heard some good things about that female he sold awhile back.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 17, 2012)

BlaCKCREEKS ARE TYPICALLY spo style hounds!!!! Some come with a lil more gears!! A true PP type hound will get picked up for running to much rabbit because of the speed in which they run and carry the line!!!! Som blackcreeks have won out in PP!!!! Satsumas and Patch Hounds are in my Opinion strong Dogs as Well!!! I dont tend to like the Bo dogs running at a trial they are kind of rough!!! In a pack of beagles you wouldnt be able to tell!!! I like a dog that has the gears and the brains, a dog that cuts em up from the inside out in the check area, and a dog that will fight for the front!!! Im breeding for a type dog that will run through a check!!! I beleive im bout there i just need one good Registered male to outcross with!!!


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## Beagler282 (Aug 17, 2012)

Progressive Pack hounds can place in AKC SPO trials and AKC SPO hounds can place and do well in Progressive Pack.It's not about the speed but how well they run a rabbit.If you think that AKC SPO dogs are slow then I invite you to go over to Hampton in September to the AKC trial and watch those hounds run.There will be several fellas there from FL. running Branko hounds also.These dogs are not slow they're just as fast as PP hounds but a whole lot cleaner.


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 17, 2012)

All my "faster" hounds were bought out of Ten Mile, Tn. They are/were little pack dogs. Thats the style I like and the style "as of now" I will tend to keep. Cull from the back, not the front.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 17, 2012)

Will be there!!!! Bright and Early!!


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 17, 2012)

Beagler282 said:


> Progressive Pack hounds can place in AKC SPO trials and AKC SPO hounds can place and do well in Progressive Pack.It's not about the speed but how well they run a rabbit.If you think that AKC SPO dogs are slow then I invite you to go over to Hampton in September to the AKC trial and watch those hounds run.There will be several fellas there from FL. running Branko hounds also.These dogs are not slow they're just as fast as PP hounds but a whole lot cleaner.



My thoughts exactly. If your PP hound is get picked up in SPO then it's because they're to rough and not the speed. If the judge tells you they were runnin to much rabbit then that's just a nicer way to say they're to rough. They propably swinging and cutting. SPO dogs are quick, but the good ones a straight up the middle and clean.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

jimmy ballard jr said:


> Will be there!!!! Bright and Early!!



 If I had a dollar!


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## Beagler282 (Aug 17, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> If I had a dollar!



 I knew that's what your first thought was gonna be when you read that Glenn.


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

adam blackwell said:


> My thoughts exactly. If your PP hound is get picked up in SPO then it's because they're to rough and not the speed. If the judge tells you they were runnin to much rabbit then that's just a nicer way to say they're to rough. They propably swinging and cutting. SPO dogs are quick, but the good ones a straight up the middle and clean.



The dogs that i know that are getting picked up in the SPO trials are PP champions. To me speed is what makes a dog rough. I have never seen a slow dog that is rough or swings. If anyone has Fast dogs that are clean with super line control i wanna see them or a fast dog that can run up the middle with a track between there legs. It's not going to happen. There should be a lot of dual  SPO/AKC champions. I know Lizard Creek Tadpole was but i dont know of many more.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 17, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> The dogs that i know that are getting picked up in the SPO trials are PP champions. To me speed is what makes a dog rough. I have never seen a slow dog that is rough or swings. If anyone has Fast dogs that are clean with super line control i wanna see them or a fast dog that can run up the middle with a track between there legs. It's not going to happen. There should be a lot of dual  SPO/AKC champions. I know Lizard Creek Tadpole was but i dont know of many more.


I normally stay out of posts like these. But, it seems some folks can't leave well enough alone. I used to judge AKC trials back when I was skinny. If the dogs I picked up at trials are now PP champions, maybe they need to punt and start over with there trials. Just sayin. I love speed trust me. I want one to run with everything his momma gave him. But all that swinging an hooking is a sign of a faulty hound. Those type hounds will kill a race in a hurry. Those type faults fall in the same catergory as extra mouth to me. I got beat by a hound last winter at a trial that would skirt the whole briar patch to gain the lead. It would wait to see where my dog was going then take off. It needed lead poisoning. You can ask anyone that trials around this area about me and they will say that I like them stout.


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## tHUNDER RUN (Aug 17, 2012)

well said ray dont think speed is a factor at all between spo and pp because there about the same.Its how well they can run the rabbit.I hear pp folks say spo is slow and i hear spo say pp is rough well ive seen rough in spo and slow in pp. I like both formats  but before you assume one or the other i think you shoud go see it for yourself you may be suprized


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> I got beat by a hound last winter at a trial that would skirt the whole briar patch to gain the lead.



Just a question, if the rabbit swims the pond and your dog follows it, but my dog skirts the pond, picks it up and moves it, is my dog smarter?


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## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2012)

*bloodlines*



Tater Bug said:


> I run in SPO style trials. I can personally tell you mine don't run like those in the video. I'm the one that gets picked up for running too much rabbit. LOL .



SPO is a joke for dogs with no speed. Except for the middle of the pack. LOL I know of a Magnum dog thats up for the challenge anything thats in your kennel. Only runs PP so if you want come get it.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 17, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> SPO is a joke for dogs with no speed. Except for the middle of the pack. LOL I know of a Magnum dog thats up for the challenge anything thats in your kennel. Only runs PP so if you want come get it.


Feed what you like.  I will feed mine.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 17, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Just a question, if the rabbit swims the pond and your dog follows it, but my dog skirts the pond, picks it up and moves it, is my dog smarter?


The dog that swims the pond is the Rabbit Dog in my opinion!


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> The dog that swims the pond is the Rabbit Dog in my opinion!



I understand, but don't penalize my hound because it relies on its brains just as much as its nose.


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## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2012)

I feed run to catch style type hounds like fireball and magnum. To each is his own, Magnum dog is a jr, 10 months old and will bring it let me know.


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

88 i been hearing a lot of good things about your magnum jr hound he is going to be tough this rabbit season.


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 17, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> The dogs that i know that are getting picked up in the SPO trials are PP champions. To me speed is what makes a dog rough. I have never seen a slow dog that is rough or swings. If anyone has Fast dogs that are clean with super line control i wanna see them or a fast dog that can run up the middle with a track between there legs. It's not going to happen. There should be a lot of dual  SPO/AKC champions. I know Lizard Creek Tadpole was but i dont know of many more.



I can agree with that. The faster a dog is the harder hittin they are. But I think the swinging and hookin comes in when a dog thinks has to always run the front but doesn't have the patients to what their turn or the speed and drive to get there. I got one right now that if comes out of a check behind, the dogs in front of him better know what they are doing because he has a head down-nose to the ground hard drive, and if they bobble, studer step, or hesitate he has the speed and drive to take it through them straight up the middle with the track between his legs. Cottontail you would prob like this hound. He might not be as quick as you like, but he's already a better dog than that Hank dog I brought down and run with you that time at only 12mths old.He's just as quick but a lot cleaner.


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## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2012)

Here's a question which if any of y'all got the next _Davis BO the third_ in you kennel.


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

Adam if he is as good as Hank you better keep him. I'm going to do some hunting with you this year and come to a few trials and watch your dogs work. 88 Ain't gonna be no more that will ever do what Bo did probally not in our life time.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> Here's a question which if any of y'all got the next _Davis BO the third_ in you kennel.



Not me. I only run females.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 17, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I understand, but don't penalize my hound because it relies on its brains just as much as its nose.


What you may call "brains" i might call lack of grit. Not trying to start a war like some folks in here(88). I like one that will do what ever it takes to run a rabbit where ever it might go. But going around a pond or briar patch just to gain the lead shows lack of grit or intelegence(sp) to me.


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## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2012)

I like a hound at the end of a run to be slap burnt out spitting blood absolutely demolished by bulldozing thru running to catch no swings just straight burning that tail. If the hound does that I can't ask for any more or less.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 17, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> I like a hound at the end of a run to be slap burnt out spitting blood absolutely demolished by bulldozing thru running to catch no swings just straight burning that tail. If the hound does that I can't ask for any more or less.


Thats the best post you made all day. Thats what i look for too.


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## deast1988 (Aug 17, 2012)

*Your right*



Cottontail said:


> 88 Ain't gonna be no more that will ever do what Bo did probally not in our life time.



Your right!


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 17, 2012)

deast1988 said:


> Here's a question which if any of y'all got the next _Davis BO the third_ in you kennel.



Don't know there is a lot of nice hounds out there. I'm still alittle more impressed with Tadpole. Who has the next Tadpole that can win two diff champ titles.


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## John Slaughter (Aug 17, 2012)

im with you cotton tail there will PROBALY never be a dog in any format that will ever acclomplishe what bo did female or male.and that magnum jr. dog is a real real real nice dog especially for his age.


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

Adam that should be easy since spo and pp hounds run the same !!!! Im J/K with you but really there both truly amazing hounds in there own way & have gave every field trialer something to shoot for. Bo won the world back to back to back in open,champion and grands thats going to be tough to beat.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> What you may call "brains" i might call lack of grit. Not trying to start a war like some folks in here(88). I like one that will do what ever it takes to run a rabbit where ever it might go. But going around a pond or briar patch just to gain the lead shows lack of grit or intelegence(sp) to me.



Just how many times does your hound have to swim a pond before his light turns on? Should my hound have to wait on the other side while your hound is swimming? Or can he chase the rabbit?


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## Cottontail (Aug 17, 2012)

Glenn they may be wanting your hounds to throw them a life vest .


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 17, 2012)

That is gonna be tough to beat to. Both had multiple judges say they were the best hound. But its always exciting to so new dogs rise to the top especially when politics are not involved and it's all about the hound. To bad that's not always the case and what hurts the sport of trialing.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> Glenn they may be wanting your hounds to throw them a life vest .



My point is that I have owned a once in a lifetime hound. She put rabbits on my porch with or without me. She would not conform to any format that I am aware of. I have no doubt that if she had loss her sense of smell, she would still produce rabbits.

Too many hounds have the nose only. They just keep swimming the ponds.


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 17, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Just how many times does your hound have to swim a pond before his light turns on? Should my hound have to wait on the other side while your hound is swimming? Or can he chase the rabbit?



Glenn from the videos you post I don't think you gonna have to worry about your bounds runnin around the pond. They gonna swim it.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

adam blackwell said:


> especially when politics are not involved and it's all about the hound. To bad that's not always the case and what hurts the sport of trialing.



Any sport that has judges has problems, inconsistencies and corruption.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 17, 2012)

adam blackwell said:


> Glenn from the videos you post I don't think you gonna have to worry about your bounds runnin around the pond. They gonna swim it.



Yes, but I am trying to teach them that there is no rabbit in the pond!


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 18, 2012)

This is the exact reason why I will NEVER trial. To much BULL !!!!! Lack of grit, really? Because a hound uses it head? I guess, you can keep your (spo & pp hounds) and I will stick with my (little pack hounds).


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## Tater Bug (Aug 18, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Yes, but I am trying to teach them that there is no rabbit in the pond!


If we're running a buck rabbit and it jumps up on a down tree and runs out the other end. My dog jumps up on the tree and runs the trail out the other end. Your hound goes around to the other end to start with. Are you saying my hound is dumb for not using his head? Some comments on this post show that some dogs truly resemble their owners in the BRAIN catergory!


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## Tater Bug (Aug 18, 2012)

Its about hound work not IQ tests. I enjoy watching GOOD HOUND WORK! Reguardless of where the dog runs in a pack.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> Are you saying my hound is dumb for not using his head?



Not at all. Maybe inexperienced. Might have been the first time the hound encountered the situation. But if he continues to do it time and time again, he probably lacks sensory input memory storage.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 18, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> Not at all. Maybe inexperienced. Might have been the first time the hound encountered the situation. But if he continues to do it time and time again, he probably lacks sensory input memory storage.


You have got to be KIDDING! That is really funny. Best joke of the day.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> You have got to be KIDDING! That is really funny. Best joke of the day.



Or perhaps you have never owned a rabbit dog that could think past his nose. I have and there is a huge difference. There are no formats out there for a great rabbit dog. That is why we have so many different formats. If you have a SPO champion, it is because you have a hound that conforms to what others have convinced you in how a rabbit is to be run. That is all you have. It is junk in other formats. That is my point.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> I enjoy watching GOOD HOUND WORK!


And nobody can define or agree upon what exactly "GOOD HOUND WORK" is! Hence the multiple styles and formats.


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## Tater Bug (Aug 18, 2012)

Wow man, your are so full of information or crap. How ever you want to look at it. I have watched hounds run of all shape an sizes. From hare hounds to brace. I DECIDED WHAT I KNOW IS GOOD HOUND WORK. Not what someone told me it was supposed to be. I have better things to do than disagree you. Thanks for all the useless knowledge.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> I DECIDED WHAT I KNOW IS GOOD HOUND WORK. Not what someone told me it was supposed to be.



Tell that to the SPO judge the next time he makes you pick up your hound.


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## John Slaughter (Aug 18, 2012)

Tater Bug said:


> I DECIDED WHAT I KNOW IS GOOD HOUND WORK. QUOTE] maybe you should start your own format and you can wright the rules for it. you seem as though you know a lot about beagles and the way they should run.


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## beagler34 (Aug 18, 2012)

A truely good hound is good in any format,this thread is getting out of hand,most of these folks i have never seen at a field trial.I have trialed in both Spo and i still trial in pp and my hounds are competitive in both,just depends how bad you want a dual champion,trialing is expensive and time consuming,i'd rather be killing rabbits during rabbit season,guess thats why mine ain't dual champs lol!


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## deast1988 (Aug 18, 2012)

*your own format!*



John Slaughter said:


> Tater Bug said:
> 
> 
> > I DECIDED WHAT I KNOW IS GOOD HOUND WORK. QUOTE] maybe you should start your own format and you can wright the rules for it. you seem as though you know a lot about beagles and the way they should run.
> ...


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

beagler34 said:


> A truely good hound is good in any format,this thread is getting out of hand,most of these folks i have never seen at a field trial.



How would your hound do in that format of the video in post #11? 

Its all in fun. Everybody feeds what they like. I am just discussing hounds from a different perspective. 

Tater Bug says I am full of crap. I think he has been talking to my wife. I better look into that!


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 18, 2012)

Well said Glenn. I feed what I like. I don't let a trial judge tell me what to like. I actually think some of them studied from a diff judging book than I did(lol!!!!!). Everybody's oppinion is diff, and that's why some formats use 2 judges for each class. All I can say is run and feed what you like, and always be on the lookout for that perfect hound. I haven't seen 1 yet even the champs have faults. I love to hunt and trial for fun.


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## Cottontail (Aug 18, 2012)

Trialing would be a lot better if the hounds were being judged instead of the owner of the hounds. This happens in all format's some judges will let my Fireball run all day while other's will pick him up right out of the truck explain this to me. How can you run at the same club and be picked up by one judge one week and brought back to the winner's pack the next by a diffrent judge??? Is the judge that picked him up right or is the judge that let him stay on the ground right?


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## beagler34 (Aug 18, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> How would your hound do in that format of the video in post #11?
> 
> Its all in fun. Everybody feeds what they like. I am just discussing hounds from a different perspective.
> 
> Tater Bug says I am full of crap. I think he has been talking to my wife. I better look into that!



Ten four on the fun,i did fail to mention that i have been picked up a few times and that would definately be the case in that video,my dogs are a little bit quicker than those.Lol!


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## beagler34 (Aug 18, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> Trialing would be a lot better if the hounds were being judged instead of the owner of the hounds. This happens in all format's some judges will let my Fireball run all day while other's will pick him up right out of the truck explain this to me. How can you run at the same club and be picked up by one judge one week and brought back to the winner's pack the next by a diffrent judge??? Is the judge that picked him up right or is the judge that let him stay on the ground right?



Don't get me wrong i am a rabbit hunter first,but i have alot of fun trialing too!Thats why i said a good hound is good in any format,however that doesn't meen he is gonna win consistantly in any format.You gotta have a pretty good dog,an honest judge and a whole lot of luck.Also dogs are just like us,some days they can't be beat and some days you want to beat them,you just gotta have fun with it and keep a positive attitude!


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## Chuck Terry (Aug 18, 2012)

In SPO, there are several divisions and they vary GREATLY despite using the same rulebook.   UBGF hounds are too conservative for my taste.   I have placed dogs in the other divisions but was ALWAYS elimated quickly in UBGF.


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## beagler34 (Aug 18, 2012)

Here is one that will make you think a little, i have bloodlines of almost all the dogs mentioned above and magnum's momma went back to short's burro,which was out of shorts home brew and shorts kate,which are spo style dogs! Davis'Bo III also went back to akc champions and Buck's pocket stubby was Weir creek and 
Del Ray Stubby bred.Most of what we run in pp goes back to weir creek breeding,so the dogs and bloodlines are very similar.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> Is the judge that picked him up right or is the judge that let him stay on the ground right?



That is why we follow the judges that like our hound.


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## Beagler282 (Aug 18, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> Trialing would be a lot better if the hounds were being judged instead of the owner of the hounds. This happens in all format's some judges will let my Fireball run all day while other's will pick him up right out of the truck explain this to me. How can you run at the same club and be picked up by one judge one week and brought back to the winner's pack the next by a diffrent judge??? Is the judge that picked him up right or is the judge that let him stay on the ground right?



After reading all these posts you can see why. We all have different opinions on how they should run and sometimes your dog might look good if it's the strongest dog in the cast but other times your dog might be competing against another strong dog and pressure will make them do crazy things sometimes to get that front end.Strong males love to bump heads.There is no right or wrong just a difference on how some interpret the rules and the style of hound they run.We all judge dogs differently.


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## Ruger#3 (Aug 18, 2012)

282 there is much wisdom in what you say. This arguement hasn't changed a bit in all the decades I been around beagles and trials. I suspect it will continue as long as there are little hounds and field trials.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

Ruger#3 said:


> 282 there is much wisdom in what you say. This arguement hasn't changed a bit in all the decades I been around beagles and trials. I suspect it will continue as long as there are little hounds and field trials.



I haven't trialed for almost 25 yrs, but reading these different boards lets me know it hasn't changed much. I did enjoy meeting different folks and the fellowship. Thank goodness the rabbit hunters stay consistent and keep everybody honest.


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## Ruger#3 (Aug 18, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I haven't trialed for almost 25 yrs, but reading these different boards lets me know it hasn't changed much. I did enjoy meeting different folks and the fellowship. Thank goodness the rabbit hunters stay consistent and keep everybody honest.



The fellowship old and new means alot to me. Those early years of AKC SPO trials were fun. I am blessed to have judged or have seen a few of the hounds mentioned in this thread run .The Dornin's Patch hounds, DelRay Stubby, Red Head. Oh the clamor when the first Brankos started showing up. Sharing time in the field with Studdard, Scott, Stewart, Grey and Richard all good memories.

An interesting thread would be building a hunting pack vs a trial hound. Hard to tenderize them trophies.


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## Cottontail (Aug 18, 2012)

282 do you remember when Andy Price started bringing them branco hounds to trial in pp around 10 years ago ??? Didnt take him long to convert did it? LOL!!!  He had some of the first branco hounds in these parts as well as some of the best bred hounds that money could buy. They were wind splitters. They would probally work just fine now.


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## TRKbeagles (Aug 18, 2012)

Ruger#3 said:


> An interesting thread would be building a hunting pack vs a trial hound. Hard to tenderize them trophies.



If I can't hunt what I trial I wouldnt have em. I'm a hunter first. Trialing is is for fun and fellowship for me. I like to meet new folks and listen to them lie about how good there dogs are. lol!!!!!!!!


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## Ruger#3 (Aug 19, 2012)

adam blackwell said:


> If I can't hunt what I trial I wouldnt have em. I'm a hunter first. Trialing is is for fun and fellowship for me. I like to meet new folks and listen to them lie about how good there dogs are. lol!!!!!!!!



Adam, I hear ya. IMHO many a beagler has owned an effective hunting pack but those didn't fit what the clubs were pushing at the time. To Cottontail's point same dogs could place now but not then.  

All were likely good hounds in their own right just different. 

Whats trendy is what changed if we could get honesty out of a hound man.


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## jimmy ballard jr (Aug 19, 2012)

I honestly have never seen a Fast Hound That is extremely clean, now i have seen them work a check beautifully plenty of times!!!!!!


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## Streetsweeper (Aug 19, 2012)

Question? Does it mean I am less of a hunter, if I dont swim the pond with my dogs?


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## hillbilly30120 (Aug 22, 2012)

When I look back at my most favorite hounds of the past they have a couple of common characteristics, grit (never quit, hunt hunt hunt) and BRAINS; some with almost the ability to communicate with their owner. But give me the dog that has enough since that on the SECOND trip across the pond to be waiting on the other side to make sure and give the bunny a hand out of the water. We all want hounds to think more like we do and I don't know bout u but if I were going to kill that rabbit I ain't thinking bout taking a swim. some folks have never had dogs with endless bottom and desire with BRAINS but they are out there, I have had the pleasure of feeding a FEW. also have and some good swimmers but I do know between the two which I would rather feed.


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