# A simple test for selling religion to atheists



## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

I don't begrudge believers wanting to spread their religion by converting nonbelievers. I just wish that when they make the attempt they would consider this one question for themselves. What would it take to convince you that some other god you don't currently believe in is real? What evidence would it take? That is the evidence you need to bring to the table for your own god. You shouldn't expect others to accept less evidence to believe in Yahweh than it would take for you to believe in Poseidon.


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## bullethead (Feb 28, 2017)

Truth


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## Havana Dude (Feb 28, 2017)

Why I come in here is beyond me. 

It's about having faith, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. You believe, you don't believe. I don't need proof, or evidence in my life to prove God is real. You do. You don't have faith. I have no faith that there are any other gods. Therefore I don't believe there are any other gods. It is really quite simple, a childlike faith. I wish you all would join us. I can't change your heart, only God can do that.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I don't begrudge believers wanting to spread their religion by converting nonbelievers. I just wish that when they make the attempt they would consider this one question for themselves. What would it take to convince you that some other god you don't currently believe in is real? What evidence would it take? That is the evidence you need to bring to the table for your own god. You shouldn't expect others to accept less evidence to believe in Yahweh than it would take for you to believe in Poseidon.



When was it assigned to a Christian to be their job to convert all non-believers? I don't understand those that have a "savior" complex and feel compelled to do so. 

I believe how I believe, you believe how you believe. Good enough for me.

I would never try to convince a Buddhist that the mosquito sucking his blood is not a former relative reincarnated. As far as I'm concerned, if one is sucking my blood and reincarnation is real I am merely going to squish them and give them yet another chance to come back as something less annoying.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Havana Dude said:


> Why I come in here is beyond me.
> 
> It's about having faith, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. You believe, you don't believe. I don't need proof, or evidence in my life to prove God is real. You do. You don't have faith. I have no faith that there are any other gods. Therefore I don't believe there are any other gods. It is really quite simple, a childlike faith. I wish you all would join us. I can't change your heart, only God can do that.



That's fine for you to just pick a deity to believe in on faith. Just don't expect that to be any more persuasive for nonbelievers than if someone told you they believe in Poseidon on faith. Good for them! Doesn't mean anything to you though.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> When was it assigned to a Christian to be their job to convert all non-believers? I don't understand those that have a "savior" complex and feel compelled to do so.
> 
> I believe how I believe, you believe how you believe. Good enough for me.
> 
> I would never try to convince a Buddhist that the mosquito sucking his blood is not a former relative reincarnated. As far as I'm concerned, if one is sucking my blood and reincarnation is real I am merely going to squish them and give them yet another chance to come back as something less annoying.



I don't know, you would have to ask a Christian that.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> I don't know, you would have to ask a Christian that.



It was a prose to your original post. I am a Christian but do not understand the incessant need for either party, Atheist or Believer, to either condemn or recruit based on their beliefs. It does not exist in the Christian doctrine, and I am not aware of any set in stone doctrine that compels Atheist to challenge Christians based on their beliefs. 

Where does this "need to recruit" come from?


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> It was a prose to your original post. I am a Christian but do not understand the incessant need for either party, Atheist or Believer, to either condemn or recruit based on their beliefs. It does not exist in the Christian doctrine, and I am not aware of any set in stone doctrine that compels Atheist to challenge Christians based on their beliefs.
> 
> Where does this "need to recruit" come from?



There is no "atheist doctrine". Why Christians try to convert people is a question for them. The fact is they do. And that's fine. I just wish they would stop and think about how they go about it. If their argument wouldn't be enough to convince them some other god is real why do they think it should convince anyone theirs is real? Any god that really exists shouldn't require an exception be made to the standards of evidence that would be needed for other gods.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> There is no "atheist doctrine". Why Christians try to convert people is a question for them. The fact is they do. And that's fine. I just wish they would stop and think about how they go about it. If their argument wouldn't be enough to convince them some other god is real why do they think it should convince anyone theirs is real? Any god that really exists shouldn't require an exception be made to the standards of evidence that would be needed for other gods.



Why would any God, or other god's require a standard of evidence to be believed? 

Is it this lack of a "knock at the door, Amway salesman" approach by any god that keeps Atheist from believing? You know, sitting down with a non-believer in their living room and performing totally unexplained magic tricks in order to win over their trust, even though the non-believer still couldn't find justifiable explanation for the tricks they performed. Is that what is needed?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> When was it assigned to a Christian to be their job to convert all non-believers? I don't understand those that have a "savior" complex and feel compelled to do so.
> 
> I believe how I believe, you believe how you believe. Good enough for me.
> 
> I would never try to convince a Buddhist that the mosquito sucking his blood is not a former relative reincarnated. As far as I'm concerned, if one is sucking my blood and reincarnation is real I am merely going to squish them and give them yet another chance to come back as something less annoying.





> When was it assigned to a Christian to be their job to convert all non-believers? I don't understand those that have a "savior" complex and feel compelled to do so.


It STARTS here -


> Several verses in Scripture tell us clearly that God expects us to spread His Word to everyone in the world. From the joyous hymns of Psalms to the accounts of the disciples in Matthew and Mark, there can be no doubt that we as Christians have an essential duty to fulfill on earth.
> God has been very clear in His Word that He wants us to go forth and spread the Word. As Christians, part of our duty is to try to reach as many people as possible in sharing the word of God. It is important for us to revisit the Bible regularly to reflect on key passages and rediscover our purpose.
> endtime.com


Does it say "go forth and convert"? 
No it just says "go forth and spread/share the word". 
Unfortunately just spreading/sharing the word doesn't seem to satisfy most people.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> It STARTS here -
> 
> Does it say "go forth and convert"?
> No it just says "go forth and spread/share the word".
> Unfortunately just spreading/sharing the word doesn't seem to satisfy most people.



You are preaching to the choir on this topic and I 100% agree. We have a Commission and a Commandment. Most ignore the Commandment in order to distort the intent of and validate their abuse of the Commission.


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## welderguy (Feb 28, 2017)

Havana Dude said:


> Why I come in here is beyond me.
> 
> It's about having faith, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. You believe, you don't believe. I don't need proof, or evidence in my life to prove God is real. You do. You don't have faith. I have no faith that there are any other gods. Therefore I don't believe there are any other gods. It is really quite simple, a childlike faith. I wish you all would join us. I can't change your heart, only God can do that.



I agree.
But to me, it's all about what you are passionate about. Different people have different passions. Mine is just hearing and talking about things of God.
I tried quitting once, couldn't do it. I couldn't contain my passion for very long. I don't expect to change anyone's view, but I like telling mine and hearing others. It does get tiring when people's character comes under attack, I agree.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> It was a prose to your original post. I am a Christian but do not understand the incessant need for either party, Atheist or Believer, to either condemn or recruit based on their beliefs. It does not exist in the Christian doctrine, and I am not aware of any set in stone doctrine that compels Atheist to challenge Christians based on their beliefs.
> 
> Where does this "need to recruit" come from?


My guess is it comes from the time 3 cavemen threw out 2 cavemen from their cave. The 2 cavemen said "if we had 4 of us we would still have our cave".


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> My guess it comes from the time 3 cavemen threw out 2 cavemen from their cave. The 2 cavemen said "if we had 4 of us we would still have our cave".


Well, clearly, since they were cave men they weren't Christians, since they pre-dated the coming of Christ, so does that mean they were Atheist or some other man made religion? 

So you are stating the need to recruit is a human condition (a Sociological condition) and not related to any doctrinal requirement at all?


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Well, clearly, since they were cave men they weren't Christians, since they pre-dated the coming of Christ, so does that mean they were Atheist or some other man made religion?
> 
> So you are stating the need to recruit is a human condition (a Sociological condition) and not related to any doctrinal requirement at all?




Sorry to butt in.  I think it can be observed that forming groups is advantageous and that uniting them under a doctrine is a strong way to bind the group, particularly a religious doctrine.  There are so many characteristics about it that make religious doctrine extremely powerful.  The characteristic that's strongest, most moving, and hardest to argue against is Divine Revelation.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Sorry to butt in.  I think it can be observed that forming groups is advantageous and that uniting them under a doctrine is a strong way to bind the group, particularly a religious doctrine.  There are so many characteristics about it that make religious doctrine extremely powerful.  The characteristic that's strongest, most moving, and hardest to argue against is Divine Revelation.



Do you suppose this is why there is now a "Church" of Atheism? Which in my mind defeats the entire concept of Atheism to begin with.


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## SemperFiDawg (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> When was it assigned to a Christian to be their job to convert all non-believers? I don't understand those that have a "savior" complex and feel compelled to do so.
> 
> I believe how I believe, you believe how you believe. Good enough for me.
> 
> I would never try to convince a Buddhist that the mosquito sucking his blood is not a former relative reincarnated. As far as I'm concerned, if one is sucking my blood and reincarnation is real I am merely going to squish them and give them yet another chance to come back as something less annoying.



Great Commision ring a bell?


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Why would any God, or other god's require a standard of evidence to be believed?



Is it your default position to accept any and all claims made without evidence as true? I can understand why theists retreat to faith when challenged for evidence but that only serves to show how weak the foundation is for their belief. Special pleading is not persuasive yet theists seem to think it is.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Well, clearly, since they were cave men they weren't Christians, since they pre-dated the coming of Christ, so does that mean they were Atheist or some other man made religion?
> 
> So you are stating the need to recruit is a human condition (a Sociological condition) and not related to any doctrinal requirement at all?


While your questions seem simple, on the surface, they really aren't. 


> does that mean they were Atheist or some other man made religion?


Maybe both. Maybe neither.
We know they "believed/imagined" things.
Was that from their imagination?
Can what they "believed or imagined" be classified as a religion?
I don't think we/I have enough information to make that call.


> the need to recruit is a human condition (a Sociological condition) and not related to any doctrinal requirement at all?


I think you would need to define "doctrinal requirement".
Doctrine is merely a set of beliefs held by a group of people.
If 4 cavemen believe they are stronger than 3 is that considered doctrine?
Maybe the word "requirement" is the complicated part (to me).


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Do you suppose this is why there is now a "Church" of Atheism? Which in my mind defeats the entire concept of Atheism to begin with.



Yes.  They want to unite for strength.  Calling themselves a church and adopting the organization of church is a bush league blunder for all the reasons that you can come up with.  Here's from their home page.


_Home
With the First Church of Atheism you can become ordained quickly, easily, and at no cost.

Since its inception, the First Church of Atheism has amassed quite a following around the world. FCA ministers come from all walks of life. They are every race, ethnicity, age, and creed. The one thing binding every FCA minister is his or her belief in science, reason, and reality.

The First Church of Atheism wants you to pursue and cherish your realistic beliefs without interference from any outside agency, including government or church authority. We provide our service for free, as we believe it is every atheists right to perform these clergy functions.

You may become a legally ordained minister for life, without cost, and without question._

The part in blue is oxymoronic.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Great Commision ring a bell?



I am well aware, as stated previously, maybe in another thread what the context and parameters of the Great Commission are. Nowhere in that Commission does it state that you are to bludgeon non-believers to a bloody pulp with the Bible, or to pass judgement on them and condemn them, nor are you to ignore the greatest commandment of all in the process. 

While the scriptures have stood the test of time, the condition of today's society is not a failure of scriptural doctrine, but yet a failure of believers to adequately carry out their directives in a mature responsible manner.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Is it your default position to accept any and all claims made without evidence as true? I can understand why theists retreat to faith when challenged for evidence but that only serves to show how weak the foundation is for their belief. Special pleading is not persuasive yet theists seem to think it is.



So there is nothing in your life that you have "faith" in?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Yes.  They want to unite for strength.  Calling themselves a church and adopting the organization of church is a bush league blunder for all the reasons that you can come up with.  Here's from their home page.
> 
> 
> _Home
> ...


It is definitely not a well thought out concept that will undoubtedly yield unintended consequences over time.


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> It is definitely not a well thought out concept that will undoubtedly yield unintended consequences over time.




It's a full two steps back, in my opinion.


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> So there is nothing in your life that you have "faith" in?



Butting in again.  No.  Not faith as in "believe first in order to believe".  Is that bad?  Are there repercussions for lacking that kind of faith?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> Butting in again.  No.  Not faith as in "believe first in order to believe".  Is that bad?  Are there repercussions for lacking that kind of faith?


Every time I go fishing I have "faith" I will catch fish.
Ive been skunked enough times to know that "faith" doesn't make it fact.


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Every time I go fishing I have "faith" I will catch fish.
> Ive been skunked enough times to know that "faith" doesn't make it fact.



I KNOW they're in there.  That's all.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Every time I go fishing I have "faith" I will catch fish.
> Ive been skunked enough times to know that "faith" doesn't make it fact.



Speaking of which, it's been a good long while since we all managed to get together for something.......perhaps this spring we can fix that.

Ambush, you too.


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Speaking of which, it's been a good long while since we all managed to get together for something.......perhaps this spring we can fix that.
> 
> Ambush, you too.



I'm game.   I still want you and yours to come for a visit.  Maybe some time in late March.  Maybe we can roll it all together.  Fishing trip/fish fry at my house.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Speaking of which, it's been a good long while since we all managed to get together for something.......perhaps this spring we can fix that.
> 
> Ambush, you too.


Hey JB hope you and the family are doing well.
Is Lake Lanier too much of a haul for you? Ambush? Anybody else who might be interested?
Reason I ask is because I camp in one of their campgrounds (Van Pugh South campground) fairly often in spring and summer.
Fish, cook out, camp (tent) overnight if you want, family friendly etc......


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Hey JB hope you and the family are doing well.
> Is Lake Lanier too much of a haul for you? Ambush? Anybody else who might be interested?
> Reason I ask is because I camp in one of their campgrounds (Van Pugh South campground) fairly often in spring and summer.
> Fish, cook out, camp (tent) overnight if you want, family friendly etc......



Let's do it.  Name the date.  I'm going to the Hog hunt in Savannah this weekend.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I'm game.   I still want you and yours to come for a visit.  Maybe some time in late March.  Maybe we can roll it all together.  Fishing trip/fish fry at my house.



Heck yea!  I am sorry we couldn't make it happen at the end of the year.  Things are always crazy for me then.  Late March is a great time for fishing, and rolling it into a fish fry would be a lot of fun.



			
				WaltL1 said:
			
		

> Hey JB hope you and the family are doing well.
> Is Lake Lanier too much of a haul for you? Ambush? Anybody else who might be interested?
> Reason I ask is because I camp in one of their campgrounds (Van Pugh South campground) fairly often in spring and summer.
> Fish, cook out, camp (tent) overnight if you want, family friendly etc......



Hey Walt, things are well.  The family is growing and busy.  Lanier is not too far for me.  If we can somehow find a day on the calendar that works for an AA get-together, I would def like to make it happen.  I don't turkey hunt (as you know and have witnessed  ), and late March / early April is usually some fantastic fishing.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

I may be out the last weekend in March.  Will know more soon.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Heck yea!  I am sorry we couldn't make it happen at the end of the year.  Things are always crazy for me then.  Late March is a great time for fishing, and rolling it into a fish fry would be a lot of fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Walt, things are well.  The family is growing and busy.  Lanier is not too far for me.  If we can somehow find a day on the calendar that works for an AA get-together, I would def like to make it happen.  I don't turkey hunt (as you know and have witnessed  ), and late March / early April is usually some fantastic fishing.


I witnessed you shoot just as many turkeys as I did so maybe neither one of us turkey hunts (very well) 
Ive got some nagging health issues so its a lot easier to drag me away from turkey hunting these days.
Sitting at the lake sipping a sweet tea and casting a line is far less strenuous than hauling my old butt up and down hills.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the health issues, Walt.  Hoping it's none too serious.  

I can't so anything the last weekend of March, or the weekend of 4/7.  Other than that, I hope we can make it happen.  I know I still have ambush's email, but if y'all want to move the planning to that format I'm good.......that way the AA can get back to the regularly scheduled debate! 

I need to drop in here more often, looks like some good conversation has been happening lately.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

As far as the OP is concerned, the GC is often misinterpreted as a mandate to convert.  It is only a mandate to teach, and, in many ways coming in here and defending one's faith can be an expression of that.  I don't try to convert anybody, but, I will have a conversation about what I believe with anybody who is interested.  Some folks go on street corners and preach.  In a lot of ways, I respect the folks who do that, even though they come across as crazy more often than not.   They are simply doing what they believe is right, and putting themselves in a very uncomfortable situation.  It's not for me, but I gotta give them some credit for putting it out there.

Where I get lost is when folks take it to the force / legislative extreme.  I would more likely side with you guys in those circumstances than with my own "team."


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Sorry to hear about the health issues, Walt.  Hoping it's none too serious.
> 
> I can't so anything the last weekend of March, or the weekend of 4/7.  Other than that, I hope we can make it happen.  I know I still have ambush's email, but if y'all want to move the planning to that format I'm good.......that way the AA can get back to the regularly scheduled debate!
> 
> I need to drop in here more often, looks like some good conversation has been happening lately.





> Hoping it's none too serious.


Lets just say I'm stocking up on the fixins for a lot of s'mores just in case you guys are right about the big bonfire down below


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Hey JB hope you and the family are doing well.
> Is Lake Lanier too much of a haul for you? Ambush? Anybody else who might be interested?
> Reason I ask is because I camp in one of their campgrounds (Van Pugh South campground) fairly often in spring and summer.
> Fish, cook out, camp (tent) overnight if you want, family friendly etc......



Sounds like fun to me, if ya'll could tolerate an evil Christian in your midst.  Though Spring is my absolute busiest time of year, and this one is no exception.


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Sounds like fun to me, if ya'll could tolerate an evil Christian in your midst.  Though Spring is my absolute busiest time of year, and this one is no exception.



You're coming.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Sounds like fun to me, if ya'll could tolerate an evil Christian in your midst.  Though Spring is my absolute busiest time of year, and this one is no exception.



Im a Christian.  I've hung out with both Walt and Ambush and they are great folks, never once felt judged or otherwise condemned for our differing beliefs.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Lets just say I'm stocking up on the fixins for a lot of s'mores just in case you guys are right about the big bonfire down below



Gracious man.  I am very, very sorry to hear it.  Let's get the trip going sooner rather than later.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> So there is nothing in your life that you have "faith" in?



Not that I can think of.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Im a Christian.  I've hung out with both Walt and Ambush and they are great folks, never once felt judged or otherwise condemned for our differing beliefs.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Not that I can think of.



Do you have faith in your ability to provide for you and your family?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Sounds like fun to me, if ya'll could tolerate an evil Christian in your midst.  Though Spring is my absolute busiest time of year, and this one is no exception.


We are used to evil Christians in our midst so of course you would be welcome.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> I KNOW they're in there.  That's all.



Yep. If I'm fishing a spot I've caught fish before I have a reasonable expectation that I might repeat a past experience. I would call that hope, not faith. Theism is more akin to casting a line and being certain that you are going to land a mermaid.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Theism is more akin to casting a line and being certain that you are going to land a mermaid.



Nah man.  Because we "know" that mermaids do not, and can not, exist.  No such claim can be made about God.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Do you have faith in your ability to provide for you and your family?



No. I have reason to expect I will be able to provide based on numerous facts. And I acknowledge that I could be wrong in spite of those facts. That's not faith. If a court asked me to show evidence that I can support a family I could show them.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Nah man.  Because we "know" that mermaids do not, and can not, exist.  No such claim can be made about God.



You don't know mermaids can't exist any more than you know a god can't exist. You know how many times I've heard theists say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence?


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Im a Christian.  I've hung out with both Walt and Ambush and they are great folks, never once felt judged or otherwise condemned for our differing beliefs.


Thank you JB. Means a lot.
Although the way you were pulling in those trout I'm convinced you had some sort of unfair advantage on your side


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## Miguel Cervantes (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> You don't know mermaids can't exist any more than you know a god can't exist. You know how many times I've heard theists say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence?



You do realize what you just did there, right?

Or perhaps not.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Thank you JB. Means a lot.
> Although the way you were pulling in those trout I'm convinced you had some sort of unfair advantage on your side





My advantage was you n ambush were on the bank laughing at the fat guy in the middle of a river during a downpour.  But, man that was a great day!


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> My advantage was you n ambush were on the bank laughing at the fat guy in the middle of a river during a downpour.  But, man that was a great day!



They're still there......


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> You don't know mermaids can't exist any more than you know a god can't exist. You know how many times I've heard theists say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence?



Primary evidence against mermaids is the inability of lungs to breathe underwater, lack of gills, biological realities of a half person half fish sort-a thing.  Zero evidence in the fossil record even though we regularly find all sorta crazy lookin' critters from ages past. Without divine intervention (intentional), it would be impossible. 

I don't know that anyone can say God is impossible.  I think I would be more likely to claim that absence of God is impossible.  Either way, there is a difference.  We can prove mermaids don't exist through science.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

ambush80 said:


> They're still there......



Trout, then fish fry?  I'm in.  Sent you and Walt an email.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> You do realize what you just did there, right?
> 
> Or perhaps not.



I've never claimed I can prove gods or any other mythical creatures don't exist. I can't and I don't need to. The burden of proof rests with those making the positive claim that something exists. If someone had hard evidence substantiating the existence of god(s) that would be fascinating. But I've never seen anyone come up with the sort of evidence for their god that would equally persuade them of a different god.

 I wouldn't argue absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I would say absence of evidence is consistent with absence. It's exactly what you would expect of something that doesn't exist.


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## atlashunter (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Primary evidence against mermaids is the inability of lungs to breathe underwater, lack of gills, biological realities of a half person half fish sort-a thing.  Zero evidence in the fossil record even though we regularly find all sorta crazy lookin' critters from ages past. Without divine intervention (intentional), it would be impossible.
> 
> I don't know that anyone can say God is impossible.  I think I would be more likely to claim that absence of God is impossible.  Either way, there is a difference.  We can prove mermaids don't exist through science.



Nope all you have to do is change the claims about the nature of mermaids to be consistent with the lack of evidence. It's no different from Russell's Teapot. You just move the goalposts to make the claim unfalsifiable. Same as theists do. I know fish exist and I can demonstrate it to others. They don't have to just take my word for it. So I'm not operating on faith when I go fishing. If I was searching for something for which there was zero credible evidence of existing and I was already certain that it did exist that would be faith.


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## bullethead (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Primary evidence against mermaids is the inability of lungs to breathe underwater, lack of gills, biological realities of a half person half fish sort-a thing.  Zero evidence in the fossil record even though we regularly find all sorta crazy lookin' critters from ages past. Without divine intervention (intentional), it would be impossible.
> 
> I don't know that anyone can say God is impossible.  I think I would be more likely to claim that absence of God is impossible.  Either way, there is a difference.  We can prove mermaids don't exist through science.


When did  men start floating into the sky ?


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## ambush80 (Feb 28, 2017)

JB0704 said:


> Trout, then fish fry?  I'm in.  Sent you and Walt an email.



Unless Walt knows a place to load up on kitty cats.  Love me some catfishes meat.


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## JB0704 (Feb 28, 2017)

bullethead said:


> When did  men start floating into the sky ?



Men never did.


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## red neck richie (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Hey JB hope you and the family are doing well.
> Is Lake Lanier too much of a haul for you? Ambush? Anybody else who might be interested?
> Reason I ask is because I camp in one of their campgrounds (Van Pugh South campground) fairly often in spring and summer.
> Fish, cook out, camp (tent) overnight if you want, family friendly etc......



Walt I fish Lanier almost every weekend from mid march till July depending on the weather. PM me when you go to Van Pugh. If I'm on the water that weekend I'll swing by and say hello. If you want I have a center console I'll be in that four can fish in comfortably. Y'all are more than welcome to join me. The spot bite should be on soon with as warm as it has been. I usually put in at Burton Mill or Big Creek.


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## Havana Dude (Feb 28, 2017)

Never seen so many people make so many arguments against something they say doesn't exist. Never have understood wasting ones time on that. Much like you all not believing we would waste our time trying to convert. It's fairly comical I must say, reading through some of this stuff.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Havana Dude said:


> Never seen so many people make so many arguments against something they say doesn't exist. Never have understood wasting ones time on that. Much like you all not believing we would waste our time trying to convert. It's fairly comical I must say, reading through some of this stuff.


Pay closer attention - 95% of the debate revolves around us "arguing" against the arguments/supposed proof that is presented not the existence of a god or gods.
That fact is commonly missed.


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## WaltL1 (Feb 28, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> Walt I fish Lanier almost every weekend from mid march till July depending on the weather. PM me when you go to Van Pugh. If I'm on the water that weekend I'll swing by and say hello. If you want I have a center console I'll be in that four can fish in comfortably. Y'all are more than welcome to join me. The spot bite should be on soon with as warm as it has been. I usually put in at Burton Mill or Big Creek.


Will do and thanks for the generous offer. 
Van Pugh has a boat ramp too so you could launch right there if you wanted.
Fishing, steaks on the grill at the campsite, afternoon nap....... kinda sounds like that "Heaven" place. 

By the way I used to live in Auburn. Still have some friends there. Now I'm just up the road by Chateau Elan.


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## red neck richie (Feb 28, 2017)

WaltL1 said:


> Will do and thanks for the generous offer.
> Van Pugh has a boat ramp too so you could launch right there if you wanted.
> Fishing, steaks on the grill at the campsite, afternoon nap....... kinda sounds like that "Heaven" place.
> 
> By the way I used to live in Auburn. Still have some friends there. Now I'm just up the road by Chateau Elan.



Heaven on earth sounds awesome. Look forward to hearing from you.


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