# black vs smokeless powder



## reaper69 (Sep 15, 2011)

can i use my reloading scale to measure black powder or do I need to wait until my black powder measurer comes in from midway usa,  thanks again for the help guys reaper 69


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## White Horse (Sep 15, 2011)

*Different*

You measure black powder by ***volume***. Smokeless is measured by ***weight.*** Two completely different things. Wait till you have the proper measure for black powder.


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## tim scott (Sep 15, 2011)

yes you can measure blackpowder with a scale. hey grains, grams and drams are a measure of powder weight not volume. 60 grains is the same regardless if it's blackpowder, smokeless powder or cat food.
people get away with dispensing blackpowder by volume because it's so much lower in energy. it's roughly 1/3 the energy of smokeless making it far more forgiving to variations. a few grains more or less doesn't have much effect.... and it's just easier and faster to dispense it by volume. besides all factory smokeless powder ammo is loaded by volume, always has been. they are just a little more careful than pouring the powder from a powder horn into a measure. 
tim


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## SASS249 (Sep 16, 2011)

Real black powder can be loaded using weight.  THE SUBSTITUTES CAN NOT.
For example straight from the Hogdon website:
"All charges of Triple Seven or Pyrodex should be measured by VOLUME not weight. A simple, adjustable blackpowder measure is the correct tool for this job. All loads listed in this brochure are measured by VOLUME.
Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below.
Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder. Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured by volume, not weight.

I am pretty sure this is true for all the substitutes.  They are designed to duplicate the corresponding black powder load volume by volume since most people load black by volume.  The substitutes however are lighter than true black powder and thus 100 grains by weight is significantly more powder than 100 grains by volume.


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 16, 2011)

Reaper the short answer is NO you do not load black powder by weight.

In truth tho as Tim pointed out you can indeed load Black Powder by weight. The measure you bought will have been made by calculating the volume of black powder by weight and marking to correspond. They are generally not spot on and as Tim pointed out that is generally ok with black powder because of the lack of energy in black powder. The adjustable measures are generally calculated on FFg powder and will throw more or less by weight when using a different grade of powder. Consistency in how you use the measure makes a world of difference in accuracy.

As Sass pointed out you can not just start measuring the substitutes by weight because their weight does not correspond to a black powder volumetric measure (they were made to throw an equivilent charge by volume). You could however throw a powder load with the desired sub using a volumetric measure and then weigh it and then throw your loads at that weight using your scale. Couple guys I know of who target shoot throw their charges by weight since it does make a difference when a couple tenths of an inch make the difference between winning and 20th place, but they throw them by volume when hunting since it doesn't make all that much difference.

When we go to the range I throw a bunch of charges by weight and store them in tubes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-Muzzlelo...222386?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item2a08709532

NEVER EVER use smokeless powder in a firearm designed for black powder.


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## mmarkey (Sep 17, 2011)

the correct answer is YES you can measure your black powder by weight. Example if you determine your rifles shoots best with 63.5 grains of BP you are unlikely to find an adjustable measure to comply. You can pre-measure your loads and place them in a container of sorts, or you can create your own measure that will hold exactly 63.5 grains in volume. I think that is where the confusion happens.


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