# Forgiveness



## StriperAddict (Dec 1, 2019)

☆☆☆☆☆ 
When the Bible says to forgive others as you’ve been forgiven, it's not a philosophical or poetic statement. It's a big deal. There’s no new life without receiving forgiveness, and there’s no growing in that new life without giving it away freely. Every time someone offends you, there’s a choice: hold it in your heart and mind until it’s part of your identity, or, give it to God.

If you choose to keep it to justify your wrath, be warned: when you accept someone's offense, you actually submit yourself to their judgment of you. That seems like a contradiction, but by focusing on how they're hurting you, you’re giving them power over your thoughts and emotions. The more you obsess over it, the more it interferes with your relationship with God, and with who you are in him. Gaps open in your identity, which usually get filled in by anger, bitterness, and hate. You become like your accusers, rather than who God says you can be. 

Don't let anyone’s words, actions, or inactions rob you of fully living. Being offended just isn't a good enough reason to abort your astonishing identity and unique journey in Jesus Christ. Nothing is.

At the heart of this time of year is a celebration of freedom, because living in forgiveness, thankfulness, grace, and love is the best way to be spiritually and emotionally free. I hope this season is the most powerful celebration of your freedom in Jesus you've ever had.

“Be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you” (Eph. 4:32).

FB post by Rob Cosica


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 1, 2019)

Good lesson!


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 1, 2019)

So, how do I say this to prompt discussion without sounding bad considering this is in forum which should enjoy non contradictory post??? I wish it were in the AAA forum to draw out non believers oversight to point out our assumptions. ??? Thinking of how to ???? I will just say it. So my neighbor accuses you of something, say....he has a place in his siding that he says must have come from your mower throwing a rock. It makes you mad. I can't forget this. I can't believe he accused me of this and wants me to pay for it. LOL, seriously making this up as I go, I can't seem to get over it. We no longer speak upon seeing each other in the yard. Why can't I forgive him? Truth is, there is nothing to forgive. He has not asked for forgiveness. I don't owe him forgiveness. I just no longer like him. Stupid people, is my mindset. Next case, Kid comes by and throws out trash in my yard everyday. I finally  see him do it as he passes by. Easy to forgive. He will grow up and wish he had not done stupid things as a kid. LOL, I do regret chasing him down, seeing he was a kid, but that's my secret I am not proud of. But to my bigger point. What if some thug kills your daughter, details left out. will you forgive as you have been forgiven? Christians will try to get there, some claiming they would? Do you believe it? The scriptures don't have a alternative verse for varying degrees of offense. It's easy to say forgive in small cases. But don't they mean the same for major offenses. Me, I would never forgive, ever. Truth is, they have sinned against me and God. I would have trouble, but hope I would submit to vengeance is mine saith the Lord. If they get off on a technicality, hmmmmm, I just don't know. vengeance would consume me. LOL, I am getting off track. I want to stay on the topic of forgive. Reason, I have issue with those who assume that they can forgive. Just because it's in the book... and it has not happened to you... it's assumed , no problem. So many levels and fingers to be discussed here.... I will stop for now.... see what comes up. I hope the AAA will step in as well.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 1, 2019)

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Maybe God will know that at least you are trying to forgive the others. Perhaps not being able to forgive others is a sin some struggle with like alcohol or lust. 

I can't say I'm the best at it either.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 1, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Matthew 6:14-15
> For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
> 
> Maybe God will know that at least you are trying to forgive the others. Perhaps not being able to forgive others is a sin some struggle with like alcohol or lust.
> ...


So, I wonder whom all here will answer the question I pose???. If someone takes away your most loved one, some thug, a horrible death, details left out... Takes them from you, horrible, horrible, details.... will you forgive them? The answer will be Yes, No or read and a non response. I pose it so that you question yourself. And see if your capable. Never mind what you wish you could do. Will you fotgive?


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 1, 2019)

Rather than push anyone into a corner... although I think it is healthy for you to know yourself, I will pose another question. Did the writer of Matthew actually mean that we should forgive all offenses regardless of degree? Did he speak from a mindset of someone whom had never dealt with an offense? Did not realize what he was saying? Or is this words of God? Let's mention the verse about Lust, and plucking out your eye. Was this verse given by Jesus in a way to make all men realize they needed a savior because they could not overcome their nature, like Paul's comment, "who will save me from this body of death"..... or was it given as directive that we should not look at women, that us high and mighty Christians are free of this, that this is for those whom need to be saved? Funny thing.. I can admire a shinny Bass boat, a monster buck, I cool Denali..... but if I notice a pretty woman, I should pluck out my eyes. Whom all has plucked out their eyes over this? What I am trying to say is that much of what we take as rules for heaven from the bible were actually taken from Jesus's teaching to make the religious realize they needed a savior. And some of the forgiveness verses were context of getting along within the church. God does not expect that I forgive the offense I posed. No one can. If you say you can, then you should also know what it says about liars.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 1, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> Rather than push anyone into a corner... although I think it is healthy for you to know yourself, I will pose another question. Did the writer of Matthew actually mean that we should forgive all offenses regardless of degree? Did he speak from a mindset of someone whom had never dealt with an offense? Did not realize what he was saying? Or is this words of God? Let's mention the verse about Lust, and plucking out your eye. Was this verse given by Jesus in a way to make all men realize they needed a savior because they could not overcome their nature, like Paul's comment, "who will save me from this body of death"..... or was it given as directive that we should not look at women, that us high and mighty Christians are free of this, that this is for those whom need to be saved? Funny thing.. I can admire a shinny Bass boat, a monster buck, I cool Denali..... but if I notice a pretty woman, I should pluck out my eyes. Whom all has plucked out their eyes over this? What I am trying to say is that much of what we take as rules for heaven from the bible were actually taken from Jesus's teaching to make the religious realize they needed a savior. And some of the forgiveness verses were context of getting along within the church. God does not expect that I forgive the offense I posed. No one can. If you say you can, then you should also know what it says about liars.


And, if we can't overcome our nature of lust or Un-forgiveness, then perhaps we will need a savior. That message is the gospel. Perhaps it was to show us we never could and never will. I can see your point. I covet my neighbor. I lust. I cheat. I'm a complete failure.


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## NE GA Pappy (Dec 1, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> So, I wonder whom all here will answer the question I pose???. If someone takes away your most loved one, some thug, a horrible death, details left out... Takes them from you, horrible, horrible, details.... will you forgive them? The answer will be Yes, No or read and a non response. I pose it so that you question yourself. And see if your capable. Never mind what you wish you could do. Will you fotgive?



on my own?  no way.  

but God has enabled people to do things that they were not capable of doing for thousands of years.  Both physically and spiritually.

How many 90 year old women do you know that get pregnant?  for the first time?


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 1, 2019)

NE GA Pappy said:


> on my own?  no way.
> 
> but God has enabled people to do things that they were not capable of doing for thousands of years.  Both physically and spiritually.
> 
> How many 90 year old women do you know that get pregnant?  for the first time?


Then one's ability to perform these works of forgiveness, etc. are fruits of the Holy Spirit!

I guess my question then is, doesn't it all go back to God and His son?


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## NE GA Pappy (Dec 1, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Then one's ability to perform these works of forgiveness, etc. are fruits of the Holy Spirit!
> 
> I guess my question then is, doesn't it all go back to God and His son?



yep.  It would fall under the love category I believe, and also the kindness category.

I just don't know if I have enough of those in my life to be able to forgive someone that would destroy one of my family. Especially if it were one of my babies.  God would have to forgive me of another sin, because if I caught someone molesting one of those babies, I would blow their brains out.

Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 1, 2019)

Maybe looking at it this way; Matthew 6 may be telling me that unless I forgive others, God may not forgive me. Since I'm a human, I can't forgive others. It's not a human trait. Therefore the only way I can forgive others is if God works through me to forgive others.

That sounds like the same thing as God being able to forgive others because I can't. I can't so God has to be my proxy and do it for me. Yet Matthew 6 says that "I" have to.


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## NE GA Pappy (Dec 1, 2019)

we all are to strive for perfection in our daily lives.

That doesn't mean we are perfect.  It means we try to do better tomorrow than we did today.  I don't think that I would be capable of forgiving someone who intentionally took the life of one of my children or grandchildren.  That doesn't mean that I wouldn't have the desire to do so, It just means at this point in my walk, I an not able to do that.

If you look at Gal 5:22, I think you will realize that all of us fail miserably when we are examined by that scale


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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Maybe looking at it this way; Matthew 6 may be telling me that unless I forgive others, God may not forgive me. Since I'm a human, I can't forgive others. It's not a human trait. Therefore the only way I can forgive others is if God works through me to forgive others.
> 
> That sounds like the same thing as God being able to forgive others because I can't. I can't so God has to be my proxy and do it for me. Yet Matthew 6 says that "I" have to.


*We need to approach the Matt 5 verses as coming before the cross, to the audience of Jews doing the law rig in their own strength, which never works. 
Now contrast that to Eph4:32, ... forgiving one another, just AS God in Christ HAS forgiven you (Emphasis mine). Note that God's forgiveness in Christ is now a past event, present reality ... no more quid pro quo after the cross. We can forgive, not to get forgiveness, but because we have BEEN forgiven! 
On that important point I'd like to address 1gr8bldr's great questions. *

*For starters I'll say no, we can never forgive in our puny flesh-ly strength. Jesus pointed that out to the Pharisees many times. He often elevated the law of Moses aka the law of sin and death ... to make it impossible with self effort to accomplish anything of value in the kingdom.*

*We're tied to His life by faith. We live and move and have our being by a new strength given to us by God's grace. Nothing else comes close.  * 

Consequently we can make the choice to forgive. Our emotions may not line up with this choice, but we are making this choice because God in Christ chose to forgive us. 

Doing so literally takes the power of an offenders opinion of us off the table, and with time, the choice works to take the bitterness away. I honestly don't understand how God does it, but I know for a fact that the choice to forgive has been the key to my own emotional healing and sanity! 

3 years ago I suffered a deep wounding and hurtful betrayal by a 16+ year friend and brother which came at the worst time. I can't go into details in full but trust me that at the time the loss was devastating, especially financially but worse it was like a Judas dagger to my back. After the betrayal I knew I needed an appointment with my Abba Father. I wrote down the event on paper, with all the effects of the betrayal and the emotional pain, etc., I put it all b4 the Lord and in prayer I made the choice to forgive him. Sure, my anger and emotions were raw, but forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. I'm sure if I waited around for my emotions to catch up I would never have made that choice.
Remember Jesus in the Garden of Getsemane asking Father in anguish, blood coming from His brows, that if there was any other way ... to take this cup away. 

As the days wore on for me, the bitterness was taken and Jesus' peace restored. That's a fruit of this choice. And we have God's strength,  not our own effort, to make it. 

Forgiveness is a choice we make for us ... not the offender (they may never know) before God, because He first and for all time forgave us.

I'd encourage any here that are still in a tough place with loss, past or recent offenses, to accept the emotional side of yourself in all the things you feel ... to not make the mistake and wait until these go before choosing to forgive, and in doing so allow God to affirm the choice in His time. 

For good reading: "The Hurt and The Healer" by Andrew Farley, Amazon, has excellent help in this.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)

Ill add a short clip from Andrew Farley's archives that may say better what I attempted to share, above!  Stand by ...


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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)




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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)

"Jesus, I ask you to bring to mind those people in my life whom I need to forgive in order to truly walk free from the anger and resentment that have impacted my life. Reveal to me the hurt and fear that are beneath my anger. Guide me through this important decision to forgive and release people from anything they owe me, even if they do it again. Jesus, show me how I can also forgive myself for self-inflicted damage I have caused in my life. Thank you for being my strength as I choose to forgive. Amen." (from Andrew Farley's book "The Hurt & The Healer")


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 2, 2019)

StriperAddict said:


> *We need to approach the Matt 5 verses as coming before the cross, to the audience of Jews doing the law rig in their own strength, which never works.
> Now contrast that to Eph4:32, ... forgiving one another, just AS God in Christ HAS forgiven you (Emphasis mine). Note that God's forgiveness in Christ is now a past event, present reality ... no more quid pro quo after the cross. We can forgive, not to get forgiveness, but because we have BEEN forgiven!
> On that important point I'd like to address 1gr8bldr's great questions. *
> 
> ...


Glad you were able to do this, because I realize that their is much freedom in forgiveness, to both sides.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 2, 2019)

I often play the opposing card here to spur conversation, often not sure where I stand but being inquisitive as I am, and a thinker, I find answers in the thought that the comments provoke. This one in particular really weights heavy. As I assess my life, and all my grievances in my life, I can state that there are not many, yet there are some.... but I confess that they are minor.... until recently. Recently I have had 2 separate instances of being mad about something. One, I have actually "stewed" over for 2 years now. Lost sleep over it many nights of high adrenaline just thinking about it. But time heals these things. However, it is therapeutic to reflect on these things, to realize that I was in bondage of this. But, what weights heavy on me is that the bible context is not given as if it allows time to heal... degree of offense loopholes, or any type of concession. The worst case scenario that I posed, it does not seemingly allow for. What if I were able to forgive after... we will say 6 years. What if Jesus came back in 3 before I reached my forgiveness journey? I ask myself... do I actually believe that a Christian with unforgiveness over that extreme hypothetical offense will not enter the heavenly realm?   It even proceeds to deeper thought. Why would God allow that to happen? Is it possible that the forgiveness texts of the bible refer to minor offenses? This is a heavy weight to carry, a slippery slope to ask these questions


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## Madman (Dec 2, 2019)

Tough topic.  Questions bring more questions for me.  

1) Are we commanded to do more than God does when it comes to forgiveness? Luke 17:3-4 seems to indicate we forgive only those who repent.  Does God forgive those who do not repent?


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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> This is a heavy weight to carry, a slippery slope to ask these questions


No worries, I love and appreciate your honestly. My wife took years to forgive a work offender and it took prayer and real gutsy meetings with her Lord in order to come and release the offense and forgive the offender. 
The first thing to understand in discussions here on the forgiveness subject is what makes us right with God, is it the length of time it takes us to forgive, or is it because of the one time finished forever offering of Christ? I wouldn't try to forgive without knowing and living out of the freedom of being forgiven by God, yet by my own misunderstandings of the scriptures and the shame of much religious self effort and teaching the issue came to a "you'd better or else", rather than the choice to forgive because I had been forgiven and restored to relationship by His love and sacrifice. THAT is infinitely the bigger deal, and from the understanding of our being forgiven in Christ now we have the inner Comforter to help us ... in all things as well as forgiveness. 
Like I mentioned earlier it is not an emotionally easy thing to do, but why we should choose to forgive anyway. We are keeping ourselves from the peace and joy of our Rich relationship with father by the bitterness we're holding onto inside. The offender may not even be in the picture anymore, either through death or just circumstances that are impossible to continue a relationship with them. As the video above showed, forgiveness isn't forgetting the offense nor is forgiveness a feeling. It's a choice and by doing so we are able to have peace that we never would have by not forgiving as God has forgiven us. I hope this makes sense and adds some help and encouragement. Thanks for your comments here I really appreciate them.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 2, 2019)

Madman said:


> Tough topic.  Questions bring more questions for me.
> 
> 1) Are we commanded to do more than God does when it comes to forgiveness? Luke 17:3-4 seems to indicate we forgive only those who repent.  Does God forgive those who do not repent?


For those who do not change their mind aka repent of their unbelief concerning the cross and the resurrection yes these do not have forgiveness. Our forgiveness from God is contingent on his perfect offering and our acceptance of it.
 I'm not sure what you meant by doing more than God, but I'd say in every situation we forgive we then enjoy the fruit of that decision, in peace and letting go of the bitterness ... when we pass along forgiveness for any offense we encounter, big or small.


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## NE GA Pappy (Dec 2, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> But time heals these things.


Time never heals anything. Dealing with issues is what brings healing.

Sure time may dull the emotions that go with the event, but the emotions are still there, buried.  Festering.  And awaiting a moment at some future date to erupt.  They may erupt on the person responsible for the hurt, or they may erupt on some poor unsuspecting soul that just happened to be there at the time.

I know that I have snapped at my children because of something my wife did to upset me.  I was short with them, when what I was dealing with had nothing to do with the child that happened to be the object of my emotional outburst.  The anger that builds is always because something I value has been threatened.  It was an unwanted imposition on my time, or a strongly held belief that was defiled.  Or maybe a relationship that was strained because of an action.  But it is always the result of a perceived threat against something I value.

That is where the forgiveness comes into play.  I have to forgive that trespass in order for my emotional state to return to normal.  If I can't forgive, then every time that situation is brought to mind, my heart rate will increase, blood pressure will rise, and my emotions will be on edge.  Not through a choice that I have made, but because there is that threat in the background.

To eliminate the perceived threat, I must be willing to deal with it. Forgiveness is the only path that will bring healing to myself, and hopefully to the party I think wronged me.


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## Madman (Dec 2, 2019)

StriperAddict said:


> For those who do not change their mind aka repent of their unbelief concerning the cross and the resurrection yes these do not have forgiveness. Our forgiveness from God is contingent on his perfect offering and our acceptance of it.
> I'm not sure what you meant by doing more than God, but I'd say in every situation we forgive we then enjoy the fruit of that decision, in peace and letting go of the bitterness ... when we pass along forgiveness for any offense we encounter, big or small.


I meant does God command us to forgive in all cases for everything?  I would say no because he sometimes withholds forgiveness.


True repentance is good; II Corinthians 7:_9 Now I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because your grief led to repentance; for you felt a godly grief, so that you were not harmed in any way by us. 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death._

_ 1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. _

The seven times passage from Luke 17 sheds some light. 
_Luke 17: 3-4:
If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him._

From this passage is seems that Christ calls us to forgive just as God does, If he repents.

I agree with "letting go of bitterness" but I see we are called to do that not through forgiveness but through love.  We are not capable of this except through Christ. God is love and desires us to share his infinite love with everyone even those who wish us ill.  I believe St. Thomas Aquinas definition of love fits quit well in this situation.  He said that love is 'willing the good of another'. 

Therefore if we put, what I believe are two Biblical directives or commandments into practice;
1) forgive the repentant
2) Love everyone even your enemy (I don't have to like them but I do have to "will their good")

Then I must show the love of Christ and if they repent, hopefully love brings them to repentance, then I must forgive.

Just my thoughts.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 2, 2019)

I will be honest here. If someone steals from me, I can forgive easily enough. It's an item, and can likely be replaced... and may not have needed it anyway. Hurt, emotional hurt would be different. It creates a personal wound. Wounds take time to heal. But as with most people, even secular people, time heals these things. Being honest here, in regards here to my hypothetical extreme offense, sometimes I think, can I, could I just make myself forgive? I don't think I could just because I felt I was supposed to. Even more honesty, I think I would not want to forgive. I would have an inner battle of refusing to forgive. Justifying as they don't deserve to be forgiven. Worse than this, I would probably have an inner battle of letting God have vengeance rather than myself. I would have peace in jail that I would never have doing nothing. But help me Father  to never have to deal with this. This could break a man, bring him to his knees, the battle of biblical forgiveness. This is heavy, not that I wish I had never seen this thread, but that we must "work out our faith"


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## Madman (Dec 2, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> I will be honest here. If someone steals from me, I can forgive easily enough. It's an item, and can likely be replaced... and may not have needed it anyway. Hurt, emotional hurt would be different. It creates a personal wound. Wounds take time to heal. But as with most people, even secular people, time heals these things. Being honest here, in regards here to my hypothetical extreme offense, sometimes I think, can I, could I just make myself forgive? I don't think I could just because I felt I was supposed to. Even more honesty, I think I would not want to forgive. I would have an inner battle of refusing to forgive. Justifying as they don't deserve to be forgiven. Worse than this, I would probably have an inner battle of letting God have vengeance rather than myself. I would have peace in jail that I would never have doing nothing. But help me Father  to never have to deal with this. This could break a man, bring him to his knees, the battle of biblical forgiveness. This is heavy, not that I wish I had never seen this thread, but that we must "work out our faith"


What if the person came to you with a "broken and contrite heart" begging for your forgiveness?


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 2, 2019)

Madman said:


> What if the person came to you with a "broken and contrite heart" begging for your forgiveness?


What degree of offense?


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## Madman (Dec 2, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> What degree of offense?


I struggle with  that.  Really it.should be any degree.  Not sure I am man enough, or Christian enough.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 2, 2019)

Madman said:


> Tough topic.  Questions bring more questions for me.
> 
> 1) Are we commanded to do more than God does when it comes to forgiveness? Luke 17:3-4 seems to indicate we forgive only those who repent.  Does God forgive those who do not repent?



Good question. God only forgives those who repent like you mentioned. So is he asking us to forgive everyone that trespass against us? Also in line with loving our neighbor? Maybe we are suppose to love everyone like God does but only forgive those who repent. 

Then again maybe God does ask us to do more than him. Maybe God can decide who to love and forgive but we don't have that option.


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## Madman (Dec 2, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> What degree of offense?


A month ago two guys mugged my son at gun point, took everything he had, then tried to force him into his own truck, a fight insude.  Once he heard the gun sliding across the parking lot my son ran.  He called me at 11:30 that night pretty shook and I left for Birmingham AL with the intent of finding 2 males in a stolen black dodge p/u.
3 hours later I arrived praying for those males praying they get caught before they do something that truly changes the trajectory of their life or someone they encounter.

Should they ask for forgiveness I would apply it.  Until then I am called only to love.

I don't see how unforgiveness causes bitterness.  I do see how lack of love can cause bitterness.

God so loved the world......
At Pentecost the crowd cried what must we do, the response was "REPENT" and be baptized.

Forgiveness is given when asked for, the unrepentant sinner will always be an unrepentant sinner.

As I am forgiven when I repent, I give forgiveness.  I must always love.

Very difficult but Biblical.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 2, 2019)

Madman said:


> A month ago two guys mugged my son at gun point, took everything he had, then tried to force him into his own truck, a fight insude.  Once he heard the gun sliding across the parking lot my son ran.  He called me at 11:30 that night pretty shook and I left for Birmingham AL with the intent of finding 2 males in a stolen black dodge p/u.
> 3 hours later I arrived praying for those males praying they get caught before they do something that truly changes the trajectory of their life or someone they encounter.
> 
> Should they ask for forgiveness I would apply it.  Until then I am called only to love.
> ...


LOL, I fantasize over how I would make them pay. Na, just kidding, or am I? I have the mindset that I have never messed with anybody therefore nobody better not ever mess with me or my family. If you call a chronic criminal, drug addict, etc, a liar, He's hardly offended. You call someone whom has strived all his life to be honest, even if it cost him something, a liar, and you have just  poked a sleeping bull. I have given this much thought today, so in conclusion this day, my rational is that God would not expect me to forgive someone of the extreme  hypothetical offense I posed. It is a slippery slope to discredit Matthew by not believing him, or the small handful of other verses that I feel are ambiguous context regarding how believers should get along. But then, there is much of the book of Matthew that I don't believe. If the Holy Spirit had authored this book then it would have no mistakes, like Matthew's 
so called symbolic 14, 14, 14 generations that were actually more. And his non understanding the lingo of the day, when the text read, on the foal, on the foal of a donkey, [something like that] and had Jesus riding in straddling two donkeys. If I said I was riding in a red car, a fancy red car.... we would know that to be one car. not Matthew. The Holy Spirit don't make those mistakes.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 3, 2019)

Madman said:


> I struggle with  that.  Really it.should be any degree.  Not sure I am man enough, or Christian enough.


At the right time God gives us grace for what we cannot do in our flesh effort. It's important to know who we are, better ... who lives within us ... that can make the impossible possible. (Lol, I thought you said that?) ??


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 5, 2019)

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Wouldn't that be really hard to do? To be kind to ungrateful people? God is kind to the wicked even. His rain falls on the unrighteous. 

So maybe God wants us to forgive and not expect anything in return.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 8, 2019)

Here's a healing addition to the mix by the same author, advice worth holding ...
========

It was wrong in so many ways, and hurt you deeply. It should never have happened. But it's up to you to not let it keep happening. Take its power away by bringing it into the light with someone you can trust. Starve it to death by forgiving. Even if they never know, forgive for your own sake. Release them from your hate, so God can heal you in his love. 

You’re not defined by lies, wounds, rejections, or betrayals. Jesus is healing, strengthening, blessing, and transforming you. You should never have had to deal with this, but you always have access to all the grace and truth you need to overcome it. 

This is a brand new day. You are new. Take a step forward in that newness by listening to what God is saying about who you’re becoming, rather than falling back into what pain has been lying you’ll always be. 

“Anyone who belongs to Christ has become a completely new person. The old life is gone, and a new life has begun” (2 Corinthians 5:17).


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## Israel (Dec 9, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Luke 6:35
> But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
> 
> Wouldn't that be really hard to do? To be kind to ungrateful people? God is kind to the wicked even. His rain falls on the unrighteous.
> ...



amen.

"we have been fishing all night...caught nothing. we still expect to catch nothing. to us it looks like there is absolutely nothing to be caught. we know as well as any about this stuff because we are fisherman. we have learned when stuff is fruitless to do and when not.

Nevertheless at your word..."

It doesn't matter how or what situation can be inserted there.

I have never found the Lord patiently working with me in any other way.
Limited seeing, understanding, faith, experience, any form of what passes for "my" compassion...meets the One unlimited in all. 

 as a grain of mustard seed...then becomes a precious word to us, as all eventually do.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 10, 2019)

Moses never went to the Promised Land. He was punished. Was he forgiven?


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## StriperAddict (Dec 16, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Moses never went to the Promised Land. He was punished. Was he forgiven?


I'd think his moment with Christ during the transfiguration of Jesus and having a discussion with him might be a clue!  Tongue in cheek, but yes, his "friendship" with God was by grace thru faith, aka a promise in Abraham and in Habakkuk, "the righteous shall live by faith".


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 16, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Moses never went to the Promised Land. He was punished. Was he forgiven?


isn't that the saddest thing, that Moses, as loyal as he was, was not able to enter.


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## StriperAddict (Dec 18, 2019)

1gr8bldr said:


> isn't that the saddest thing, that Moses, as loyal as he was, was not able to enter.


Didn't he? ?
*Hebrews 11:16 *
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


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