# Apologetics



## marketgunner (Aug 25, 2015)

One has to be able to defend doctrines or beliefs.  
so a scenario of existence or creation must be withstand scrutiny from the scientific evidence(not opinions, but evidence ) and if God truly exist, the evidence (not opinions again but evidence) must agree with the scientific. Scripture (not a translations) must collaborate, or rather not contradict , the  evidence found elsewhere.  

So this is what I know that Scripture and some physical evidence ( I am limited on some of this) to be the truth of who we are and why the universe is here.

I know on this forum, the spiritual will not be accepted as the physical would not be accepted on a spiritual forum.

There is another "dimension" a spiritual dimension, The Creator rules , Light there was from the Creator.  There was no time.
There are many individually unique spiritual creations.  One  called"light bearer" was in charge of a group. The actions of this one and those he was in charge of were judged and expelled.  But where could they be held? There was no other place until they were imprisoned.
   At the instant of expulsion, space and time began,. The start of universe The "big bang"  and at one point in space, expansion began .  This was the prison for many ages of time. A perfect prison , trapped without light for the "light bearer". 
Visual light began ages after the initial point.

This corresponds to Gen 1 1-3.  "Let there be light and light was".

You see Gen 1:1 doesn't say" In the beginning,  God created the Heaven and the earth, "  according to literal translators and original Hebrew scholars., it best says "In the beginning of God creating the heavens and the  earth... 

Let there be light.... 

So the first act of the narrative is Light.  

The subject verb arrangement was reversed like Yoda from Star Wars speaks.
The day  used in creation is actually "yown" or generally period of time, not necessarily one "day" 

The yowns used in the verse were very long ages.

So the universe has a purpose, a prison for those imprisoned awaiting judgement. 

These prisoners are called the "dead" (spiritually).

These spiritual beings were held in this without acknowledgement until Light began. 
This reflects their surprise and those not exiled but  watching.

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

morning stars is "of the first light" sons of God is "elohyim"

So a spiritual being may be placed in a physical body for the purpose of a second chance of a pardon before  judgement t is carried out.

Those that receive the pardon can be returned too their previous positions.

Time is a countdown, a delay in judgement.  Time will end, Space will end or perhaps just reverse back to one point. The purpose of the universe will end.

We will not be trapped beneath or within light

Are they other civilization in space? to what purpose?

There are many verses that confirm this position but they are not appropriate here.  

Does this scenario fit the understood science?


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## ambush80 (Aug 25, 2015)

marketgunner said:


> One has to be able to defend doctrines or beliefs.
> so a scenario of existence or creation must be withstand scrutiny from the scientific evidence(not opinions, but evidence ) and if God truly exist, the evidence (not opinions again but evidence) must agree with the scientific. Scripture (not a translations) must collaborate, or rather not contradict , the  evidence found elsewhere.
> 
> So this is what I know that Scripture and some physical evidence ( I am limited on some of this) to be the truth of who we are and why the universe is here.
> ...




Far out, Man......


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## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 25, 2015)

Smoke much?


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## drippin' rock (Aug 25, 2015)

I must have a particularly difficult spirit in me.....


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## marketgunner (Aug 26, 2015)

To be clear, we are the bad guys in the scenario, the "fallen angels" (misnomer) , the elohyim,


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## ambush80 (Aug 26, 2015)

marketgunner said:


> ...spiritual dimension...



NOT science.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 26, 2015)

drippin' rock said:


> I must have a particularly difficult spirit in me.....



I think they make an ointment for that.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 26, 2015)

marketgunner said:


> To be clear, we are the bad guys in the scenario, the "fallen angels" (misnomer) , the elohyim,



Were you raised in the LDS Church? Some of your beliefs are similar to yours?


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## hobbs27 (Aug 26, 2015)

marketgunner said:


> To be clear, we are the bad guys in the scenario, the "fallen angels" (misnomer) , the elohyim,



Scripture please.
 If you want to find a system that is currently being accepted by believers and non believers  check out  (beyond creation science.)


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## gemcgrew (Aug 26, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> Were you raised in the LDS Church? Some of your beliefs are similar to yours?


All of his beliefs are similar to his.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 26, 2015)

gemcgrew said:


> All of his beliefs are similar to his.



That's so funny I decided not to edit it!


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## marketgunner (Aug 26, 2015)

Artfuldodger said:


> Were you raised in the LDS Church? Some of your beliefs are similar to yours?



no, they teach that all must be human in order to grow the kingdom of God as if the earth is a necessary part of Heaven. We know this is wrong from several passages. 
I suggest that only the bad guys are imprisoned and are the only ones needing redemption.

Besides the LDS has the deity of Christ wrong, don't believe in the Holy Spirit and that the earthly system will become good enough to be like heaven,  not too far from Islam.

but I do believe the souls of man are sinful spiritual elohyim


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## marketgunner (Aug 26, 2015)

ambush80 said:


> NOT science.



on this very forum , it has been suggested that another universe exists or a different dimension.

so it is speculation by science


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## drippin' rock (Aug 26, 2015)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> I think they make an ointment for that.



I just need more fiber.


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## marketgunner (Aug 29, 2015)

Here is a different  situation, without the creation.
 Please let me know how it fits or not

There once was a ruler, a king perhaps, that had absolute authority in his kingdom. His word was law.  All was well in the kingdom until a group had a difference of some kind and rebelled. The king , with absolute power , stopped the rebellion and could have had the rebels destroyed.  But he didn't.  He had a very remote island on the outer limits that was isolated from the normal trade route traffic. He decided that instead of destroying the group ,they would be exiled there. And so they were.
     The exiled citizens developed their own way of like without regard to the old country. They wpould have no contact with their former country.

But things change and the king's country developed some terrible weapon that needed to be tested. The discussion among the advisers led to the remote island to test the weapon. It was agreed but the king remembered the exiles.

The prince, the kings son,  was sent on a mission to determine if any of the exiles were left. The prince made the long journey and found the exiles and told them of the pending destruction and if any wanted to he would return with a larger ship and remove them from the island before destruction. Some believe him and prepared to leave, some said they believe but would prepare later, some didn't not believe such a weapon could exist and their way of like would continue, other said he wasn't a prince at all, some said their was no king and no former country.
The prince left to get the bigger ship but before he returned to the island, the old king died and the prince became King, with absolute authority.  His ship returned to the island and removed all who would voluntarily leave. The others who denied the situation, the danger or the authority of the new king were left. The rescued countrymen were welcomed back into the kingdom. Those who remain experienced the destruction that they were warned. Because they did not believe.

Would you believe a narrative such as this?


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## drippin' rock (Aug 29, 2015)

Sure, because the king is human.


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## marketgunner (Aug 30, 2015)

Is that the difference you see,   it is the same situation described  in two stories.  Redemption of the guilty,


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