# 1858 new army 44?



## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

About to order one and was going to order more round balls.  My other bp pistol is 44 also, and it shoots .454 ball, does anyone know if they both shoot that size or do I need to order .451?  I'd hate to wait on ammo with a toy in hand.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 21, 2013)

My sons can use the .454 just fine.  You really should check the barrel bore size and the chamber bore size on the handgun and if the chamber bore size is the same or smaller than the barrel bore you should have the chamber reamed larger so that when you shoot the ball will swedge down to the barrel bore. But it will shoot without doing so, just not as accurately as it possibly could. You might also need the forcing cone recut.

Honestly my son has a Pietta 1858 and I have a couple of Ruger Old Army revolvers and I need to do this with all of them.

I'd try it with the ball you have. Some guys report best accuracy with right at 20 grains of powder and enough filler to bring the ball out to just under the edge of the cylinder. Some guys use a revolver wad and some lube over the ball to prevent chainfire. Others claim that chainfire is caused by using the wrong size cap. All I really know is the only time I had a chainfire was when I forgot to bring some lube, but I was using #11 caps pinched just a bit to make em stay on the nipple. At the time I was using Crisco for that lube.


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## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

I know the old one I have shaves a small ring off the lead when loading, assumed this was the norm for them.    Thanks for the quick reply


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 21, 2013)

Yes, you want it to do so. My sons shaves an incomplete ring with the 451 ball and a complete ring with the 454, my Rugers shave an incomplete ring with the 454 and a complete ring with the 457. You would prefer a complete ring so long as the effort required to do so is not so much that the rammer is subjected to extra stress.

The first cap n ball revolver I owned was brass framed and I runined it either thru over load or extreme gorrila arms effort on the rammer.

I am in Forsyth co myself I would enjoy shooting with you some time. Be nice if I didn't need drive all the way to Wilson Shoals to do so..


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## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

I'd love to, but I'm in the city of forsyth.  it's a bit of a drive.  So let me ask since you have a few of these I really am hoping the removable cylinder makes it alot easier to load.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 21, 2013)

Maybe so if you have one of the loading stands, I do not. I would love to have a couple of spare cylinders but haven't bought any as yet.

Yeah well I used to step out back and shoot but the nice officer came by and told me not to do that no mo. I seriously need to meet some of my neighbors I suppose.


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## RangerJ (Jan 21, 2013)

I use .454 in mine,shave a good ring. The .451 didn't seem to seal as well.


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## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

great I ordered 454 molds.


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## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

and the loading stand you place your cylinder on by it self, and at that point an extra cylinder was very reasonable.


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## RangerJ (Jan 21, 2013)

Where did you order your molds and loading stand from?Thanks


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## trial&error (Jan 21, 2013)

cabelas.  loading stand was around $30  and the double mold was $20 with the handles.


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## RangerJ (Jan 21, 2013)

trial&error said:


> cabelas.  loading stand was around $30  and the double mold was $20 with the handles.



Thanks.


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## trial&error (Jan 23, 2013)

took an inventory of supplies onhand and all I have are .451  good thing I ordered a .454 mold.  Guess I have to go cast some bullets as soon as it comes in.  I'll check the 451 and play first if i can.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 24, 2013)

.454 works fine in my son's Army .44 and cuts a perfect circle. The loading stand we made holds the pistol upright and didn't cost anything.


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## trial&error (Jan 24, 2013)

I made a pistol stand years ago and it helped, the one I ordered had easily removable cylinders.  this loader you remove the cylinder to load.  I could have welded up one, but I have more money than Time right now.



_Posted  from  Gon.com  App  for Android_


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## stsid1 (Feb 25, 2013)

I have a 1960 New Model Army Centennial Colt and use .451, shaves a nice ring when loading and 30gr of 3t powder. Good hits on target at 50yds..


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## stabow (Feb 25, 2013)

I would get the extra cylinders. I load both up on the stand then you have 12  shots ready to go. If you do any  Cowboy action shooting you only load 5 but you will need the other cylinder.


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## trial&error (Feb 25, 2013)

extra cylinders and gun are still backordered.  Which is good, cause I can't find any powder either without ordering it.  probably going to remove one of the nip ples to keep it down to 5 shots


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## stabow (Feb 25, 2013)

Have you tried Taylor's & co. For guns and cylinders?


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## trial&error (Feb 25, 2013)

haven't shopped around, sale price was so good I jumped on it, wasn't planning on another bp pistol but can't save up enough for the ar I was planning on until a few months ago.  I didn't think the madness was going to extend to the bp world too.


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## tv_racin_fan (Feb 25, 2013)

trial&error said:


> haven't shopped around, sale price was so good I jumped on it, wasn't planning on another bp pistol but can't save up enough for the ar I was planning on until a few months ago. I didn't think the madness was going to extend to the bp world too.


 
Oh man it has extended over to everything firearm related. Seems like the last I heard powder was backordered everywhere.


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## stsid1 (Feb 25, 2013)

Glad I stocked up years ago, still got about 4lb of the real blackpowder to fall back on to, just got to regrind it back, got lumpy from sitting all these years. I've had it for about 10 years, glad it don't go bad.


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## trial&error (Feb 27, 2013)

I was doing some research and the pietta manual says 12-15grain loads.  my other 44 says 20-30gr.  That sounds alittle anemic to me.  Anyone with a pietta 44 that can confirm this?


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## tv_racin_fan (Feb 27, 2013)

I can confirm to you that that is what the manual says. 

I can confirm that that is indeed a little anemic. 

I can confirm that I do not shoot that anemic load.

The guys on another forum tell me that their most accurate load is right around 22 grains of FFFg powder with enough filler to bring the ball out to just under the edge of the cylinder. To be honest I haven't worked out a load like that, I think I run 30 grains and maybe 35 according to my measure but I know my measure is not dead accurate. 

Oh and I use one of those wonder wads to prevent chain fire. One guy I know of uses a wad and grease over the ball as well. According to what I hear if you have the caps matched to the nipples correctly you do not need wad nor grease. I prefer to go the safe route since I have had a chain fire and that was the one time I did not use either wad or grease. You can make your own wads or "grease" or use crisco.


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## trial&error (Feb 27, 2013)

for plinking that would be ok i guess, but out in the field where I plan to use it not gonna be good enough unless it can handle a full load.


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## tv_racin_fan (Feb 27, 2013)

Guess it depends on what you intend to do with it.

I hope to take a deer with it or rather hope my son does (since I gave it to him some time after I got myself a Ruger Old Army). 

For smaller game 22 grains should do the job quite nicely and as I said it is supposedly more accurate. I do not have a vice to lock em in to see which load is the most accurate.


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## trial&error (Feb 27, 2013)

I was thinking as a legal backup for bear during primitive season.


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## trial&error (Feb 27, 2013)

emailed pietta, they responded and sait 20-22gr for the 44.  I'm thinking not quite 800fps.  but alot better than 12-15gr I'm sure.  Guess I'll keep waiting and see.


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## snook24 (Mar 1, 2013)

I've wanted to get a bp handgun for a long time. My dad had one but it wasn't accurate. Do y'all hunt with these?


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## trial&error (Mar 2, 2013)

I carry for follow up shots, not primary.  Nothing worse than walking up to your prize and watching it jump and run and your one shot is gone.  Others may use it exclusively.


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## Marty55 (Mar 7, 2013)

I just bought a .44 Pietta 1858 Remington with a brass frame. The owner's manual says use .454 round balls, but I can't find any in the Athens area. A friend gave me .457 balls. Are they safe to use, or will they raise the pressure too high?


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## dawg2 (Mar 7, 2013)

RangerJ said:


> I use .454 in mine,shave a good ring. The .451 didn't seem to seal as well.



^THis.  I use .454


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## stsid1 (Mar 7, 2013)

Marty55 said:


> I just bought a .44 Pietta 1858 Remington with a brass frame. The owner's manual says use .454 round balls, but I can't find any in the Athens area. A friend gave me .457 balls. Are they safe to use, or will they raise the pressure too high?


I would try and see how much gets shaved off when loading it. If alot gets shaved or just seems too tight, I would not use them. Franklins didn't have any? Thats where I get mine sometimes but I'm using .451. I know Academy won't have that size, .451 only there. Don't load heavy powder charges with that brass frame either, light loads only. The frame won't take it, they stretch some. Light loads and that gun will last a long time. Happy Shooting.


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## trial&error (Mar 8, 2013)

finally received it, the manual says to start at 12-15 gr.  max 35 gr.  well at 12-15 you get around 500fps.  I wound up stopping at 23gr.  P pyrodex which was just over 1000fps according to my chrony (that didn't really like using black powder with it or the batt was low) more than fast enough for my intended uses.   I had 11's on hand trying them caps wouldn't stay on decided that wouldn't work so I made a special trip for 10's.  same problem with the 10's.  I'm using the tool thats supposed to give them a good squeeze to hold them on better, but no luck.  any other ideas?


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## RangerJ (Mar 8, 2013)

I use thses cap guards,they keep the caps on the nipples and they are supposed to keep moisture out.
Go to Shooting aids then to hunting aids, then to cap guards.Hope this helps.
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Nipple Protection&SubCat2ID=161&do=list&Cat1Name=Hunting%20Aids


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## tv_racin_fan (Mar 9, 2013)

I use #11s and give em a pinch before installation. I very carefully use the hammer to force em on tight, went to a WMA range and wouldn't use the hammer and forgot to carry anything wooden to push em tight. The rangemaster shot my Ruger Old Army and had a couple caps that didn't pop on the first try. He asked me was that a normal issue and I explained that I had forgotten a dowel to press em on tight with.

Take a good look at the nipple, it should be tapered, that is what keeps the #11s from not going on well. The #10s are really not smaller in diameter (depending on what brand they are) they are shorter. (or so that was the explanation I got)


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## trial&error (Mar 9, 2013)

They didn't look tapered, but I'm gonna try everything short of glue to keep them on.  I'll have to look through my supplies and see if my spares are tapered.


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## Desert Rat (Mar 13, 2013)

My son quit cleaning the outside of the nipples. Now the caps stay on fine.


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## stsid1 (Mar 21, 2013)

Just mash the sides in some, I do mine and never have a problem.


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