# Fearful Christians?



## Artfuldodger (Dec 19, 2016)

I've noticed that many deeply religious folks appear to be the most paranoid or afraid.

Examples would be toting a pistol to hang clothes on the line or keeping one's hand on their pocket knife while pumping gas.

Understanding that God perhaps gives us the power to protect ourselves, when does one surrender all to Jesus?


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 19, 2016)

Would one consider fear to be "of the flesh?"

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Matthew 6:34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I'm trying to live a more peaceful life with less worry. To surrender all to Jesus. I'm not even close to being there.

In this journey I meet fellow friends and Christians that border on fear and paranoia. That I should never go in the woods without carrying, yet one fellow Christian friend rides a motorcycle in Atlanta.
I can tell you I fear Atlanta traffic more than the forest weirdos. He has his fears and I have mine. Perhaps they are equal in regards that we both fear and have not given God the credit to protect us.


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## rockman7 (Dec 19, 2016)

Do you suppose a Christian LEO should leave his duty weapon at home?!?

Or .. are you mistaking fear for wisdom?!?


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 19, 2016)

If fear is an animal instinct like wanting to have sex with every attractive person of the opposite sex, should a Christian view each as "fleshy?"

Salvation from grace happens in an instant. Changing from a fleshy person to a spiritual person doesn't.

I've always been much of a fraidy cat never wanting confrontation. 
I've actually never been very assertive.  My motorcycle riding friend has always been a very assertive fighter.

Now that we have both matured and found God, why would he feel more afraid and why would I feel more secure as I learn that God is in control?

Has my faith in God lead me to a false sense of security and his faith lead him to fear? 
Maybe it's neither and we just have different fears. Him fearing the forest and me fearing the city.
He doesn't go anywhere without a gun and I never go anywhere with a gun. He is a hunter and I am a fisherman, hiker, and boater.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 19, 2016)

rockman7 said:


> Do you suppose a Christian LEO should leave his duty weapon at home?!?
> 
> Or .. are you mistaking fear for wisdom?!?



Not really as I was in the military and know the importance of weapons. Good that you picked up this was weapons related.

I guess at some point it's down to what we see as fears and balance that with wisdom.

I don't fear going to my mailbox. The friend who keeps his hand on his knife fears going to the mailbox.

I'm trying to progress more to being a less fearful person.
Maybe not to the point of instigating arguments but to the point of asserting myself more. Would a gun help?

Why should I carry a gun on a float trip down the Flint River if I don't fear having a run in with a land owner?

Personally it's a deeper quest than just guns, fear, assertiveness, and wisdom. I agree there has to be a balance.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 19, 2016)

Fears and worry? Sometimes they aren't fears but worry's. If God is guiding me, why can't I be one of those easy go lucky guys who don't let their fears or worry's bother them? 

My plan is to rely more on God and less on my animal/fleshy traits.  I'm tired and weary. I'm tired of being afraid. I want to be more assertive. I want to speak up. I want to be able to sleep on a sandbar without fear of being eaten by an alligator or shot by a landowner. I want to hike the mountains without fear of being eaten by a bear. 
I want to be able to argue with a giant without fear of my teeth being knocked out. I want to talk back to my boss without fear of being fired.

Sometimes fear isn't for my life or pain but rejection.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 20, 2016)

Bad stuff happens every day. There are evil people out there. I do not expect Jesus to come down and intervene if somebody is trying to stab me for my wallet. In that case, I would much prefer to have a Glock as a Bible. Sorry.


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## gordon 2 (Dec 20, 2016)

This tread is very interesting. Like you say Art, lots of people are paranoid and fearful today, say compared to the past. Lots of tin foil hats on many in all walks of life today.

I have recently listened to a documentary on serial killers. It was suggested or observed by some that these psycopaths and or sociopaths had their first killing at aprox 28 yrs of age. There was a peek ( a significant increase)  of serial killer murders from the Late 60s to the 1980s. Serial killings were much less before this and has been much less after this. 

What was proposed as a possible cause for this peek was that most  of these people were raised by parents who had in some way been involved in WW2 or possibly by at least one parent with untreated PTSD.

I have to wonder sometimes if all this fear you talk about is not a social PTSD in that society has no illusion of what it is capable of regards violence, and unlike the violence we say " we don't know what they have seen or lived" regards veterans with PTSD for example, we as a society ( all of society not just soldiers) have seen what we are capable of every day since the mid 20th century and therefore have lived what we are capable of since the mid 20th century.


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## centerpin fan (Dec 20, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> I've noticed that many deeply religious folks appear to be the most paranoid or afraid.
> 
> Examples would be toting a pistol to hang clothes on the line or keeping one's hand on their pocket knife while pumping gas.




Devout Catholic:


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## 1eyefishing (Dec 20, 2016)

Definitely a fear of the flesh for me, as I am pretty confident that my spirit will not be in a bad place when all is done. I have been afraid for my life numerous times (armed robbery with pistol-whipping and stitches in my head, near drownings in big surf, bad kidney stone attack by myself miles into north Georgia wilderness...). In some cases, I became resigned that I may die, and the stress factor was immediately decreased. Once the fear for my flesh subsided, there was no more fear.
I was fairly passive as a youngster, but found in early elementary school that some of the smaller kids (I was bigger than everybody else at that age) wanted to pick on me because I was big (but not threatening) and "everybody liked me". 
I immediately decided that I had some wiggle room and became more assertive. I think that has helped me during my life, but sometimes I can regret things I've done or said in reaction to others. But as Confucius said, " A man with no regrets has not lived life to the fullest". 
So I own my regrets and continue on treading ever more carefully and trying to be a better person. 
Thanks for bringing us your thoughts on this subject and invitation for  the conversation...


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 20, 2016)

I forgot about kidney stones. Passed a few myself here in the city. I've often thought about what it would be like in the wilderness as I've got a few more still in me. My doctor said they weren't big enough to bust up with ultrasonics.

I've had some fearful thoughts going to sleep the night before a canoe trip. Once on the water, the thoughts aren't there. The thoughts were mostly about hitting a stump and flipping sending my daughter and Dad into the water.
I've never feared alligators and snakes. 

I use to be a runner when I was younger. I lived in a rural neighborhood where everybody had an unchained dog. Sometimes that was scary. Usually all I had to do was quit running and go to the other side of the road.
Odd though is my chance of getting hit by a car was higher than getting bit by a dog.


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## 1gr8bldr (Dec 20, 2016)

I suppose I have thought about this much myself. I could go on and on. I have recently lightened up a little. I used to think it may be a lack of faith from just going to the doctor. A lack of faith for a security system on my home. A lack of faith to keep a pistol by the bed, etc. My biggest was a struggle over my wife having breast cancer. I struggled through this thinking I had failed the test because I did not trust God to heal her but resorted to the doctors. This was a really hard time for me. Her more, of course. On the other hand, I don't see how some Christians have such a lack of faith. My mom, bless her heart always has a paranoia that  surprises me coming from a person of supposedly deep faith.  I think we do lack faith. Reminds me of the Israleties who had seen God bless them, had seen his miracles, yet said "Is God with us or not". This makes me think of Jesus's great faith even though his death when he said "he will never leave me or forsake me". Based on that, we should have faith that God is with us through the trials. But does it imply there will be though times? I think so and Jesus verified this with "in this life you will have many trials....". But Even so, I can't ascribe to the type of faith many Christians have that think God will squash us like a bug on a sidewalk just to get us thankful that he allowed us to live. That's not a Fatherly love. That's not at all how you would treat a son or the Ultimate Father of the Universe who "is love". And to change the topic a little... Prayer. I likely am very different in terms of prayer. I don't beg God day in and day out for nothing. This seems to me to deny a fatherly love. Not only that, excessive prayer and especially fasting seems to me as  a means to harass God. My mom, growing up, would start on wednesday, harassing me about mowing the grass. It was one of my chores. I mowed the grass every week, all done by Saturday, all my teenage years. Never missed it. But she started fussing about it on Wednesday as if I always neglected it. It was pure harassment. She never allowed me to prove myself. LOL, as far as she knew, she probably thinks it would have never gotten done if it weren't for her harassment. Same with God. We should trust that as a loving Father, that he already has our best interest in mind.  So I say these things not that I have this figured out, but that I say that it is a journey, all of us at different points "in faith". That there is no right or wrong, only peace. It reminds me of Abraham, although he reckoned God could raise Issac from the dead because of his faith, the promise that his seed would increase through Issac, he later failed when the famine came. He was invincible having the promise of "don't go back because I am with you" yet he went back. But rather than God punishing him by the lose of his wife, he protected her and reunited them. God does not crush us for lack of faith. But I do believe he yearns for us to see him as a Father rather than Warden


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 20, 2016)

Relating to the "Tower of Babel" thread, I don't see what God did as punishment either.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 23, 2016)

I edited the title and changed it from paranoid to fearful.

I borrowed the following passage from another thread.

1 John 4:17-19
In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us.

I'm not sure if all things of the flesh are sin. Unless some things that I think are from the flesh(natural) are actually from God. Things like fear and compassion. Love and hate. 
God would love us to hate sin.

In other words even though I'm human with a soul, I see that I'm also natural like other mammals. While it's true that, I like other mammals, have sex for procreation, we still have the driving force of enjoyment to make us want to have sex.

We, like other animals show fear and compassion. So many things that we consider fleshy are actually just animal instincts.

Fear being one of them. Yet as a Christian, I'm suppose to put all of my trust in God and not fear. I'm not even suppose to worry.

Maybe it's something that happens on a spiritual path as we mature, both with age and faith. I would think that as someone grows older and deeper within their spiritual progress that fear will diminish.

If fear is a liability instead of an asset then like stealing or lust, each has his on weaknesses that he must overcome. For one it might be fear and for another it might be overeating.

Maybe a little fear is good but too much and it becomes paranoia.

Some mentioned that the fear they have is to say alive as a man on the earth. That they no longer have a fear of eternal punishment. They have blessed assurance.
Maybe that is what the above verses are talking about. 
Still though if one is secure about their afterlife, why be so fearful within?

I mean if you can't go hang out clothes on the line without packing, how can you be secure in your salvation? Yet some of the most deeply motivated Christians I know are the most fearful.


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