# Praying for VICTORY in sports



## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

This is a spin-off of Atlashunter's prayer thread.

It's common for individual athletes, teams and fans to pray for victory in a sporting contest.  Many high school and college teams pray for victory prior to the game.  Many fans pray for their favorite team to win.

NOTE:   I'm speaking specifically about prayers for victory, not a prayer for a safe and fun contest where no one gets hurt.

Do you believe that prayer has an effect on the final score of a sporting contest?

If yes, please explain.

If no, why do you think it's so common?


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> This is a spin-off of Atlashunter's prayer thread.
> 
> It's common for individual athletes, teams and fans to pray for victory in a sporting contest.  Many high school and college teams pray for victory prior to the game.  Many fans pray for their favorite team to win.
> 
> ...



I think that you are the most sensible believer that I've seen here in a long time, so you certainly must understand that non-believers liken prayer to any other superstitious ritual, ie. rubbing a lucky rabbits foot or blowing on dice.  That being said, I still do all of the above, including offering up a "prayer" to the God du Jour prior to making a cast or loosing an arrow.   Sometimes it makes me feel good, but it always makes me chuckle. 

I suppose once someone has been indoctrinated with the notion of prayer, or a higher power for that matter, the influence of said notions will habitually manifest itself on occasion.


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## pnome (Jan 25, 2011)

I think you're asking this in the wrong forum.

But, no I don't think it helps.  I think people do it because they want to win.  If I really believed that I had an omnipotent deity listening to my prayers, why wouldn't I ask for it's favor?


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## TTom (Jan 25, 2011)

Now I'm not an atheist I'm an "other" and yes I believe that prayer has some level of power regardless of who the person is "praying" to.

It might be a complete placebo effect, but the times it has shown to have results are too numerous to discount it entirely. There is strength drawn from faith.

Now prayer for victory in sports, those have always struck me as worthless selfish prayers. Prayers that our players have the strength and ability and for no injuries those are not in any way prayers against the benefit of some other person so those I believe might be worthwhile.

Prayers for the downfall of another always strike me as being prayers that whatever god you may have ought to dismiss as the foolishness of man.


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## VisionCasting (Jan 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> why do you think it's so common?



Because people are misguided on the purpose of prayer.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

As common as this practice is, I find it hard to believe there isn't anyone on this forum who supports it.  Perhaps I haven't given it enough time.

Many of these "team prayers" are led by preachers, clergy, etc.  Is it not reasonable for the public viewing this to interpret it as being a sincere act?  If religious leaders honestly believe this to be a misguided purpose of prayer then shouldn't they refuse to participate in it?


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## gtparts (Jan 25, 2011)

Having been in more than a couple of pre-game team prayers, I have never (yes, I typed "never") heard one that appealed for a supernatural advantage or intervention to cause an opponent harm or lose.

Even so, I understand that individuals ask, for selfish reasons, that their deity favor one competitor over another. Some Christians are certainly included in that grouping. I see no evil intent and yet I see no particular merit in that kind of prayer. As a Christian, I believe God fully understands the desires of all hearts. I also believe that He is not influenced by such prayers and that the competition and outcome are in accord with His ultimate plan. 
Do these contests sometimes result in injury, death, and some measure of disappointment? They surely do. The injury or death is part of living in a fallen world. The disappointment is the result of placing personal significance on the contest, a participant, the team, or the school or organization represented. In life, sometimes you are the windshield and sometimes you are the bug.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Having been in more than a couple of pre-game team prayers, I have never (yes, I typed "never") heard one that appealed for a supernatural advantage or intervention to cause an opponent harm or lose.



Other than the "official team prayer", have you ever heard individual athletes praying to win the game so the team can advance to division or state?  Have you ever heard parents praying for the same thing because their kids would be so devastated by the loss?  If so, do you consider this to be wrong?


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## gtparts (Jan 25, 2011)

I have heard a few prayers like you describe, but there appears to be no reason expressed beyond one of personal desire.

 Wrong? No, but given the motivation, I would not expect God to respond favorably to such a petition. 

Misguided prayer is something that can be changed by actively seeking spiritual maturity. The power of prayer is found in being yielded to God, regardless of the outcome. Father understands the desires of His children and He is quite aware that the granting of every petition is not necessarily in their best interest. To reward the selfish petitioner will surely train them to continue in selfish behavior. As with most competitions, there are factors that are inherent in them that affect the outcome. Talent, general and specific physical preparation, strategy, tactical planning, practice, attitude, weather, individual health, and a host of other factors are most often sufficient to direct success for one of the competitors. God often seems content to let those things have their natural result.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

gtparts said:


> I have heard a few prayers like you describe, but there appears to be no reason expressed beyond one of personal desire.
> 
> Wrong? No, but given the motivation, I would not expect God to respond favorably to such a petition.
> 
> Misguided prayer is something that can be changed by actively seeking spiritual maturity. The power of prayer is found in being yielded to God, regardless of the outcome. Father understands the desires of His children and He is quite aware that the granting of every petition is not necessarily in their best interest. To reward the selfish petitioner will surely train them to continue in selfish behavior. As with most competitions, there are factors that are inherent in them that affect the outcome. Talent, general and specific physical preparation, strategy, tactical planning, practice, attitude, weather, individual health, and a host of other factors are most often sufficient to direct success for one of the competitors. God often seems content to let those things have their natural result.




Thanks GT.

Is there anyone on this forum that DOES believe that prayer has an effect on the final score of a sporting competition?


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

pnome said:


> I think you're asking this in the wrong forum.
> 
> But, no I don't think it helps.  I think people do it because they want to win.  If I really believed that I had an omnipotent deity listening to my prayers, why wouldn't I ask for it's favor?




The reason I chose to post in this forum is I wanted to discuss it logically without quoting scripture.

Thanks for your reply.


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## atlashunter (Jan 25, 2011)

gtparts said:


> In life, sometimes you are the windshield and sometimes you are the bug.



Coincidentally exactly what we would expect in a world where there was no God....


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## atlashunter (Jan 25, 2011)

gtparts said:


> As with most competitions, there are factors that are inherent in them that affect the outcome. Talent, general and specific physical preparation, strategy, tactical planning, practice, attitude, weather, individual health, and a host of other factors are most often sufficient to direct success for one of the competitors. God often seems content to let those things have their natural result.



Same with wars that kill millions of innocent people.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Same with wars that kill millions of innocent people.



Since Atlas brought it up;

Is there anyone who believes that prayer effects the overall outcome (victory or defeat) in war?


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> The reason I chose to post in this forum is I wanted to discuss it logically without quoting scripture.
> 
> Thanks for your reply.



Discuss the logic of prayer or discuss prayer logically?


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## ambush80 (Jan 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Since Atlas brought it up;
> 
> Is there anyone who believes that prayer effects the overall outcome (victory or defeat) in war?




Do you think that a lucky talisman works better, worse or similarly to prayer?


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Discuss the logic of prayer or discuss prayer logically?



Either one.  Basically, I don't think that quoting scripture is the most effective way of relaying what you believe and why you believe it.


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## HawgJawl (Jan 25, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Do you think that a lucky talisman works better, worse or similarly to prayer?



The effectiveness of prayer is being addressed in Atlashunter's thread.  I'm more interested in the individual's BELIEF in prayer.  So far, it seems unanimous that no one believes that prayer actually effects the final score of a sporting contest.  I anticipate a slightly different answer from some regarding war.  I would like to discuss why it is different.


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## VisionCasting (Jan 25, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Same with wars that kill millions of innocent people.



There are no innocent people.


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## atlashunter (Jan 25, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> There are no innocent people.



Really? Do tell...


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## ted_BSR (Jan 25, 2011)

I played Varsity soccer for 3 years at a Christian High School. We played most of the local public and catholic schools. We prayed as a team before and after every practice and game. Sometimes one of the coaches prayed, sometimes the team captains, sometimes a player that felt compelled that day. Never once did anyone pray for victory. We prayed for God to watch over us (and the other teams), we prayed that we could be examples for Christ through our actions, we prayed that we could glorify God through our efforts, we prayed for students who were sick (one boy on the team had cancer), we prayed for God's presence in our lives, we prayed for understanding of His Word, and we read the Word together.

I believe that those who pray for their own personal gain through victory are misinformed about prayer.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 25, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> There are no innocent people.



There is a whole new thread here!


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## ted_BSR (Jan 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> The effectiveness of prayer is being addressed in Atlashunter's thread.  I'm more interested in the individual's BELIEF in prayer.  So far, it seems unanimous that no one believes that prayer actually effects the final score of a sporting contest.  I anticipate a slightly different answer from some regarding war.  I would like to discuss why it is different.



Same thing, higher stakes.


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## stringmusic (Jan 28, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Really? Do tell...



I'll throw my personal answer in here if you dont mind. SIN, and EVERYBODY has done it.


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## Achilles Return (Jan 28, 2011)

VisionCasting said:


> There are no innocent people.



You've just justified abortion, congratulations.


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## 11P&YBOWHUNTER (Jan 28, 2011)

To answer the op question...people pray because they think it will help.  


My question is this:  If an equal number of players and fans for both basketball teams pray really hard, and the score is a land slide victory of 120 to 56...why wasn't there a tie??  











Answer:  common sense


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## atlashunter (Jan 28, 2011)

Achilles Return said:


> You've just justified abortion, congratulations.


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## atlashunter (Jan 28, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I'll throw my personal answer in here if you dont mind. SIN, and EVERYBODY has done it.



Even children?


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## ambush80 (Jan 28, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Even children?



Even sweet little, milk smelling, newborn babies.  Sinners. Born into sin and no darned good from the day they are conceived.  Its perfect.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 28, 2011)

You guys on the baby and abortion rant don't know as much about the bible as you claim to.


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## atlashunter (Jan 28, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> You guys on the baby and abortion rant don't know as much about the bible as you claim to.



I'd be happy for you to enlighten me.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 29, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I'd be happy for you to enlighten me.



Nah, read about it.


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## atlashunter (Jan 29, 2011)

I have but apparently we don't know as much as you. The door is open to share your wealth of knowledge with us.  I suppose since children are guilty they get to burn forever after they are murdered in war with the adults. What a wonderful religion you have.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 29, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I have but apparently we don't know as much as you. The door is open to share your wealth of knowledge with us.  I suppose since children are guilty they get to burn forever after they are murdered in war with the adults. What a wonderful religion you have.



Apparently not.


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## ambush80 (Jan 29, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Apparently not.



Explain "Original Sin" to me in a way that I would understand.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 29, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Explain "Original Sin" to me in a way that I would understand.



As I believe it to be, certainly you will disagree.

At the begining of creation, Adam and Eve were innocent. They had no idea of the difference between good and evil.

God instructed them not to eat from the tree of knowledge. The knowledge that this tree contained was the knowledge of good and evil.

Satan, in the form of a talking snake , convinced Eve to eat the fruit. Eve convinced Adam. Thus, they gained the knowledge. They fell from their state of innocence. This fallen state was inherited by all of mankind.

I'm sure you will enjoy yourself with this one.


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## Ridge Walker (Jan 29, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> As I believe it to be, certainly you will disagree.
> 
> At the begining of creation, Adam and Eve were innocent. They had no idea of the difference between good and evil.
> 
> ...



You have to admit, that does sound pretty far fetched.

RW


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## ted_BSR (Jan 29, 2011)

Ridge Walker said:


> You have to admit, that does sound pretty far fetched.
> 
> RW



Not as far fetched as, primordial soup and single celled organisms spawning the human race.  Big Bang, now there is a solid theory!


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## atlashunter (Jan 29, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> As I believe it to be, certainly you will disagree.
> 
> At the begining of creation, Adam and Eve were innocent. They had no idea of the difference between good and evil.
> 
> ...



That's right ambush. This is how it went down.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 29, 2011)

Here you go with YouTube again. Up until today I have never really spent much time surfing YouTube. I thought I should check it out, and my guess was correct, I haven't missed anything.

How can you honestly say you are interested in intelligent discussion when time after time you post links to the most comical and ridiculous internet site that their is?


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## atlashunter (Jan 29, 2011)

You find the biblical creation story comical and ridiculous?


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## ted_BSR (Jan 30, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> You find the biblical creation story comical and ridiculous?



I believe in the source. What is the source for YouTube?


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## atlashunter (Jan 30, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I believe in the source. What is the source for YouTube?



The same as the source of that story.


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## ted_BSR (Jan 31, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> The same as the source of that story.



That is your belief. I believe you are wrong.


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## Big7 (Feb 8, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Explain "Original Sin" to me in a way that I would understand.



OK.. Read THIS:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm
Real slow...

It's all there, trust me.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 10, 2011)

Gatorb said:


> i think God only answers prayers for victory of Gator fans at the GA/FLA game.



He may answer "No".


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## ugadawg88 (Feb 10, 2011)

Gatorb said:


> i think God only answers prayers for victory of Gator fans at the GA/FLA game.



I would say God gets a good laugh about 75% of the time when he creates a gator fan. Especially since He knows they will grow up to be jort(jean short) wearin, mullet rockin, tim tebow fans.


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