# God has a body, Just as Jesus does.



## Artfuldodger (Mar 30, 2012)

As a believer that when I get to Heaven and see Jesus in a body of flesh & bones (no blood), and i'll be in a body of flesh & bones, that God won't be in a body of flesh & bones. I've often studied this belief of Mormons and tend to agree. I would also agree Jesus was conceived by God. Mary was prepared by the Holy Spirit. I don't perceive having a spirit without having a body. 
Jesus made it very clear that he was a body of flesh & bones and not just a spirit, even eating after his resurrection. 
Flesh & blood can't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but flesh & bones can.
I've never read anything in the Bible about Jesus giving up his body in Heaven. Heaven is going to be like the Garden of Eden and we will need a body to enjoy it. I can't imaging being in Heaven without a body.


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## Mako22 (Mar 31, 2012)

Not sure I understood what you were saying but let me take a try at it. God the father does not have a body as he is clearly stated in scripture to be a spirit. Jesus does have a body in the 3rd heaven where he is seated next to the Father. God the father did not have a carnal relationship with Mary and the Mormons don't have a clue as to what they are talking about on this subject. The Holy Spirit moved upon the virgin Mary and in a non physical way caused the egg in her to become fertilized. To believe as the Mormons do that God the father had a sexual relationship with Mary is pure heresy!


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## hobbs27 (Mar 31, 2012)

Woodsman is correct, the scriptures tell us God is a spirit.Moses saw Gods backside walking away if you remember, just a glimpse.

Jesus when resurected was in his Earthly body as Mary could not touch him before he ascended, once He returned in a new body,Thomas was able to touch Him. 
 Stephen looked up as he was being martyred and saw Jesus that had been sitting at the right side of God....standing at the right side of God...that excites me ole Stephen got a standing ovation welcoming him in...I think it says somewhere you will be known in heaven as you are known here. No doubt we get a new body but it could still be in this image which is in the image of God.


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## Inthegarge (Mar 31, 2012)

Yup...... a glorified Body, without the flesh and blood which is what causes us problems now.....BTW the Mormons don't teach God had relations with Mary............Unless that's evolved now like the rest of their religion.........


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 31, 2012)

I don't believe God had a physical relation with Mary either. There are many instances of God having eyes, hands, a back side, etc. God said no one could see his face or they would die. How can you see a spirit's face? How can you be made in a spirit's image? Jesus will be sitting next to God in Heaven. He will not be sitting next to a spirit that we won't be able to see. We will be able to see God's face.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 31, 2012)

Inthegarge said:


> Yup...... a glorified Body, without the flesh and blood which is what causes us problems now....



The key word is "blood". We will go to Heaven in a flesh & bones body vs a flesh & blood body. Jesus went to heaven in a flesh & bones body. The whole concept of Christianity, Heaven, Jesus' resurrection, and our resurrection without having a glorified flesh & bones body  doesn't seem right. 
I'm no expert on what exactly a glorified body is, but whatever kind of body Jesus is in right now, is what kind of body we will be in when we go to Heaven.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 31, 2012)

1 Corinthians 15:44
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The verse says a spiritual body, not a spirit. A natural body has blood and must breath to live. A spiritual body has no blood or breath.


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## JustUs4All (Mar 31, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> The key word is "blood". We will go to Heaven in a flesh & bones body vs a flesh & blood body. Jesus went to heaven in a flesh & bones body.




Proof of these assertions, please.


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## hobbs27 (Mar 31, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> How can you see a spirit's face? .



Who ever said a spirit can't be seen? In the Bible theres many references to Angels appearing to people that looked as if they were men.


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## sea trout (Mar 31, 2012)

i dont know but i beleive god looks like the angels. god made the angels. god created us in his image. i dont think we look exactly like them but in their image


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 31, 2012)

JustUs4All said:


> Proof of these assertions, please.




Luke 24:39 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Acts 1:9 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

1 John 3:2 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Philippians 3:21 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Enoch & Elijah went to Heaven alive. The believers on earth when Jesus comes back will go to Heaven alive at some point. I don't know how the flesh & blood/flesh & bones thing will affect them.


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## Ronnie T (Mar 31, 2012)

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


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## thedeacon (Apr 1, 2012)

I don't know what God looks like, his discription was not revelled to me so I do not give it any thought. I don't know what I will look like when I go heaven even thought I believe I will be recognizable.

I don't give matters of this nature much thought because I have a hard time figureing out things there are not answers to.

Things of heaven will be more than my imagination can conjure. 

I do think a lot of prayer, study and work toward the understanding of the revelations of the things important to salvation and the growth of the Christian life is what will enable me to know the answers to all these questions in that final time.

I love my God with all my heart and every day I pray for the wisdom I need to live a productive christian life. Sometimes I find it very hard and I cannot foul my mind with things that I know is impossible for me to know and understand.

There is not one ounce of sarcasm meant in this post and I am not condemning anyone for anything. This is simply my thoughts, In fact I commend anyone who tries to broaden their knowledge in anything rightous.

God bless


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 1, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> I don't know what God looks like, his discription was not revelled to me so I do not give it any thought. I don't know what I will look like when I go heaven even thought I believe I will be recognizable.
> 
> I don't give matters of this nature much thought because I have a hard time figureing out things there are not answers to.
> 
> ...



Good response and know sarcasm was taken. I'm going to have to rethink my beliefs on God having a body. We are made in his image and we will get to see him in Heaven but to say he has a body might be pushing it. We will go to Heaven in a glorified body like Jesus. I can't find any scriptures that says God has a body, not even a spiritual body.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 1, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprised if we all turn out to be wrong when it comes to our vision of God's being.

The Bible does indeed speak of God having hands.  It speaks of God holding us in His hand.

The Bible speaks of God being able to see also.  He is able to see within the heart of all mankind.

I spect our minds attempts to understand it all are futile.

But I don't think God minds our inquisitive nature.


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## gordon 2 (Apr 3, 2012)

I can't help seeing the questions here, yes in the light of our biblical ( especially christian)  knowledge, but also in the light of other world religions and how they have and continue to approach these questions.


"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" John 8:58


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## hawglips (Aug 8, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I'm going to have to rethink my beliefs on God having a body. We are made in his image and we will get to see him in Heaven but to say he has a body might be pushing it. We will go to Heaven in a glorified body like Jesus. I can't find any scriptures that says God has a body, not even a spiritual body.



This is an interesting thread.  Everyone is speaking as if Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings.   It seems to be unanimous here that Christ is in heaven with a resurrected, physical body of flesh and bones -- and that he is also physically separate from our Father.  And I would agree.

But doesn't this contradict the Nicene teaching of the Trinity?


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## Ronnie T (Aug 8, 2012)

hawglips said:


> This is an interesting thread.  Everyone is speaking as if Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings.   It seems to be unanimous here that Christ is in heaven with a resurrected, physical body of flesh and bones -- and that he is also physically separate from our Father.  And I would agree.
> 
> But doesn't this contradict the Nicene teaching of the Trinity?



Well it's not unanimous.  I don't believe Christ is in heaven now with a physical body of flesh and bones.

.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Well it's not unanimous.  I don't believe Christ is in heaven now with a physical body of flesh and bones.
> 
> .



Did he park his body at the Gates of Heaven until he re-enters it for his trip back toEarth?


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## formula1 (Aug 9, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> I don't know what God looks like, his discription was not revelled to me so I do not give it any thought. I don't know what I will look like when I go heaven even thought I believe I will be recognizable.
> 
> I don't give matters of this nature much thought because I have a hard time figureing out things there are not answers to.
> 
> ...



This is a very eloquent way of saying 'Serve the Living God and Trust Him to take care of the rest!'  I like it and I thank you!


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Did he park his body at the Gates of Heaven until he re-enters it for his trip back toEarth?



Yes.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 9, 2012)

Jesus told Mary she could not touch him because he had yet to ascend...He told Thomas to touch his nail scarred hands...any thoughts?


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## Huntinfool (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Well it's not unanimous.  I don't believe Christ is in heaven now with a physical body of flesh and bones.



How's this for ya....I don't believe that ANYBODY (i.e. people who have died) is in Heaven right now....nor He||.

The lone exception is Jesus, who was bodily resurrected and ascended bodily to take a place at the right hand of the Father.  

Been wanting to start a thread in that regard for discussion.  Just haven't gotten around to it.  I think it fits here though.


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> Been wanting to start a thread in that regard for discussion.  Just haven't gotten around to it.  I think it fits here though.



I think you should start a thread.......that is a very interesting thought......would love to hear your thoughts on it.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 9, 2012)

I can't start threads form my work PC for some reason....I think it fits in this discussion though.

Just to address the OP....as others have said, the Father is a spirit.  He does not have a physical body.  The Bible, I think, is very clear on that point.


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> I can't start threads form my work PC for some reason....I think it fits in this discussion though..



Ok.  Then.....why do you think nobody is in heaven or he11 now?

Obviously, I am curious.  I have a ton of difficulty with heaven and he11....seems everybdoy believes something different, and I am not really certain what I believe as I have never really looked a whole lot into it.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 9, 2012)

I'll start one for you HF...don't want this one to get too off topic.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2012)

Will we be able to see God & Jesus in Heaven as seperate? Jesus in a body & God as a spirit.


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Will we be able to see God & Jesus in Heaven as seperate? Jesus in a body & God as a spirit.



Not if Jesus' body is parked at the gates, then they will both be spirit.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 9, 2012)

That would be pretty funny if there was a coat rack at the gates with a wrinkled up "Jesus body" hanging on it just waiting for him to put it back on and zip it up.


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Huntinfool said:


> That would be pretty funny if there was a coat rack at the gates with a wrinkled up "Jesus body" hanging on it just waiting for him to put it back on and zip it up.



Prove there isn't one......


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## Huntinfool (Aug 9, 2012)

As our athiest friends like to point out when they are dodging an argument.....the burden of proof does not lie on the negative position.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 9, 2012)

1Cor 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36  You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

The Mystery of Resurrection

50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


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## hawglips (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Well it's not unanimous.  I don't believe Christ is in heaven now with a physical body of flesh and bones.
> 
> .



Interesting.  So many questions come to mind.

So, where did Christ ascend to?  And where did Steven see him on the right hand of the Father?



Ronnie T said:


> 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.



Does any religion believe that a resurrected body has blood?  I was under the understanding that all Christianity believed there is no blood.  But I could be wrong...


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## Ronnie T (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> 1 Corinthians 15:50
> Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.





Artfuldodger said:


> Did he park his body at the Gates of Heaven until he re-enters it for his trip back toEarth?





hawglips said:


> Interesting.  So many questions come to mind.
> 
> So, where did Christ ascend to?  And where did Steven see him on the right hand of the Father?
> 
> Does any religion believe that a resurrected body has blood?  I was under the understanding that all Christianity believed there is no blood.  But I could be wrong...



The resurrected Jesus was not the same as the physical Jesus.  No one recognized him.
What His biological makeup was I cannot even pretend to know, but I believe there is a change that will take place for all of us.  
We don't know what we'll be like in heaven, but we know we'll be like Jesus (whatever that might possibly mean).

Jesus was not physical prior to His coming to the earth so why would he remain physical once He returned to His glory?

I suspect it's way beyond our ability to be able to understand it all.


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## JB0704 (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The resurrected Jesus was not the same of the physical Jesus.  No one recognized him.



I had never thought about that point......but, didn't he have scars in his hands?


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## Ronnie T (Aug 9, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I had never thought about that point......but, didn't he have scars in his hands?



Yes he did, at least He did when He held His hands out to Thomas....

Very mysterious isn't it?


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## hawglips (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The resurrected Jesus was not the same as the physical Jesus.  No one recognized him.



I would propose a different viewpoint.

In Luke 24 v16 to 31 where the disciples didn't recognize Him, it was due to their eyes being "holden" so that they should not recognize him.  Then their eyes were "opened" after the lesson he wanted to teach them incognito was completed, so that they would realize who He  was.  It was their eyes that had been "holden", not His body being unrecognizable, that inhibited their ability to recognize him visually.  It is not totally clear what lesson it was he was trying to teach them by doing that, but it appears from verse 32 that it was a lesson on feeling the testimony of the Holy Ghost, which they would need to rely on after he was gone and they were on their own, rather than on seeing with their eyes like they hitherto had done while on his mortal ministry.

And then when Jesus stood in the midst of the 11 a few verses later, they thought he was a spirit, still not comprehending that he had been resurrected.  Their's was not a question of recognition, but realization that he had indeed been resurrected, and stood among them in bodily form.  They had been through a tough few days and on edge.  And after feeling his body, and still wondering about the whole "He lives" thing, he went even further to solidify the notion that he indeed had  a body, and asked for something to eat so they could understand fully.

And in John 20 where Mary was weeping after seeing the body of the Lord missing from the sepulchure, she was crying, not facing Him, and not knowing he was there, when she answered the angels' question about why she was crying.  And then she turned back and saw Him standing there through her weeping, watery eyes, and didn't realize it was him at first.  But it only took Him calling her by name for her to realize who He was.   She had two things working against her -- the mental block of not expecting that he could be alive again standing in front of her and the lack of context for her mind to immediately comprehend it, and the obviously heavy weeping she was engaged in.


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## hawglips (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Jesus was not physical prior to His coming to the earth so why would he remain physical once He returned to His glory?.



But he didn't 'remain' physical.  There was a very significant change.  His body lay dead in the sepulchure till the third day, and then His mortal body was changed to an immortal, incorruptible one.   

We also know that many of the dead saints rose from their graves.  Obviosly, there had to be a significant change for their decayed bodies to do that.
(Matt. 27: 51-52)
As to the question of why he would ascend to heaven in a physical body, since he wasn't in one prior to coming down, the Bible doesn't specifically answer that.  But we do know that he ascended to heaven in a physical, living, resurrected body.  And we further know that we will one day be resurrected and enter heaven as well.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 9, 2012)

hawglips said:


> But he didn't 'remain' physical.  There was a very significant change.  His body lay dead in the sepulchure till the third day, and then His mortal body was changed to an immortal, incorruptible one.
> 
> We also know that many of the dead saints rose from their graves.  Obviosly, there had to be a significant change for their decayed bodies to do that.
> 
> As to the question of why he would ascend to heaven in a physical body, since he wasn't in one prior to coming down, the Bible doesn't specifically answer that.  But we do know that he ascended to heaven in a physical, living, resurrected body.  And we further know that we will one day be resurrected and enter heaven as well.



I don't personally know that that's the way Jesus arrived into heaven.

John had two descriptions for Jesus in heaven.

1.  Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.
17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying,

2.  Revelation 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. 8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they *sang a new song, saying,

“ Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,

“ Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

*At least a dozen other times in Revelation, God's Son is described and referred to as The Lamb.

Revelation 19:9
‘ Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’”


It will be a great blessing to be with our Lord, no matter what He will be.


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## StriperAddict (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> We don't know what we'll be like in heaven, but we know we'll be like Jesus (whatever that might possibly mean).


 

On this point, these verses have always been a favorite and always bring me encouragement:

1 John 3:1-3 
<SUP class=versenum>*1 *</SUP> See <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we 
would be called <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>children of God; and such we are. For this reason 
_the world does not know us, because <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>it did not know Him_. 
<SUP class=versenum>*2 *</SUP> <SUP class=crossreference value='(D)'></SUP>Beloved, now we are <SUP class=crossreference value='(E)'></SUP>children of God, and <SUP class=crossreference value='(F)'></SUP>it has not appeared 
as yet what we will be. We know that when He <SUP class=crossreference value='(G)'></SUP>appears, we will be 
<SUP class=crossreference value='(H)'></SUP>like Him, because we will <SUP class=crossreference value='(I)'></SUP>see Him just as He is. 
<SUP class=versenum>*3 *</SUP>And everyone who has this <SUP class=crossreference value='(J)'></SUP>hope fixed on Him <SUP class=crossreference value='(K)'></SUP>purifies himself, 
just as He is pure.

Also consider that the world does not "know" us, as it relates to our union with Christ (see _emphasis added_), whom the world does not know either(outside of a revelation and redemption).  Very Interesting indeed.
The 15 ch of 1Cor quoted earlier says we are sown in a perishable body that will decay, while our perfected soul/spirit go home with the Lord.  I can't wait for the day  !


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2012)

hawglips said:


> But he didn't 'remain' physical.  There was a very significant change.  His body lay dead in the sepulchure till the third day, and then His mortal body was changed to an immortal, incorruptible one.
> 
> We also know that many of the dead saints rose from their graves.  Obviosly, there had to be a significant change for their decayed bodies to do that.
> (Matt. 27: 51-52)
> As to the question of why he would ascend to heaven in a physical body, since he wasn't in one prior to coming down, the Bible doesn't specifically answer that.  But we do know that he ascended to heaven in a physical, living, resurrected body.  And we further know that we will one day be resurrected and enter heaven as well.



The reason Jesus went to Heaven in a body is because he was a man. He had to experience everything we did or will do. Did not Enoch & Elijah go to Heaven in bodies?
The description i've read of Heaven requires a body to enjoy it as described.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 9, 2012)

Jesus is the second Adam. Heaven is likened to the garden. What Adam lost because he failed to represent God's image, Jesus reclaimed


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 9, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Who ever said a spirit can't be seen? In the Bible theres many references to Angels appearing to people that looked as if they were men.



Angels as spirits?  hmmmmm

I can't think of a single bible passage that refers to angels as spirits.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 9, 2012)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Angels as spirits?  hmmmmm
> 
> I can't think of a single bible passage that refers to angels as spirits.



Let me help you brother.
 Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 9, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Jesus was not physical prior to His coming to the earth so why would he remain physical once He returned to His glory?
> I suspect it's way beyond our ability to be able to understand it all.



Which mysteries of the Bible should we try to seek answers to and to which should we just let the mystery be?

It would seem strange that Jesus would die and go to Heaven as a spirit only to come back to Earth, resurrect in a body, then ascend in a body, only to return to a spirit before entering Heaven.
It would seem strange that we would do this too. If we are getting along just great in Heaven without a body, listening to beautiful music & seeing glorious sights, why take the trouble to come back to Earth for a glorified body like Jesus has?


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## Ronnie T (Aug 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Which mysteries of the Bible should we try to seek answers to and to which should we just let the mystery be?
> 
> It would seem strange that Jesus would die and go to Heaven as a spirit only to come back to Earth, resurrect in a body, then ascend in a body, only to return to a spirit before entering Heaven.
> It would seem strange that we would do this too. If we are getting along just great in Heaven without a body, listening to beautiful music & seeing glorious sights, why take the trouble to come back to Earth for a glorified body like Jesus has?



Well, we already know of the most important mystery.  The mystery of the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

With the other ones, we probably find more confusion than answers.  

It's especially confusing when we search for answers that aren't available to us.

I don't have much of an answer for you bro.  sorry.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 10, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Did not Enoch & Elijah go to Heaven in bodies?
> .



Who knows? I know I'm getting a new body one day and Im going to shed this old one.


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## hawglips (Aug 10, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> It would seem strange that Jesus would die and go to Heaven as a spirit only to come back to Earth, resurrect in a body, then ascend in a body, only to return to a spirit before entering Heaven.



Jesus was the first to be resurrected.   Humans had been dead for thousands of years, with their bodies laying in the ground, returned to the dust, while their spirits were -- where?   1 Peter 3 mentions specifically about those in "prison" (who had died at the time of Noah) being taught by Christ.  Most folks have a long time to wait on the resurrection.   




Artfuldodger said:


> It would seem strange that we would do this too. If we are getting along just great in Heaven without a body, listening to beautiful music & seeing glorious sights, why take the trouble to come back to Earth for a glorified body like Jesus has?



That's our purpose.  The Bible doesn't teach us too much about what we're going to be engaged in for eternity.  I suspect there's a lot more in store than listening to music and sight-seeing.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 11, 2012)

hawglips said:


> Jesus was the first to be resurrected.   Humans had been dead for thousands of years, with their bodies laying in the ground, returned to the dust, while their spirits were -- where?   1 Peter 3 mentions specifically about those in "prison" (who had died at the time of Noah) being taught by Christ.  Most folks have a long time to wait on the resurrection.
> 
> That's our purpose.  The Bible doesn't teach us too much about what we're going to be engaged in for eternity.  I suspect there's a lot more in store than listening to music and sight-seeing.



I think the spirits of those in the ground were also in the ground in those bodies. 
The music & sight-seeing were only two things we'll be doing in Heaven that will require us to have a Glorified body.
quote: NEW, IMMORTAL, REAL, PHYSICAL AND YOUTHFUL BODIES - No wrinkles, blemishes, bumps or scars. Perfect symmetry and proportion. - For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:20,21) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:52,53) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (1 Corinthians 15:49) Notice God's promise. - His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth: (Job 33:25) end quote
Quote: To enjoy all the blessings of our eternal life, we’ll require a physical body. We know this because Jesus made such a point of demonstrating that He had one (Luke 24:36-39), and John wrote that when we see Him we’ll be like He is. (1 John 3:2)  Departed believers have to wait for the rapture to get theirs just like we do. In fact, the entire creation is waiting for the Rapture. (Romans 8:19)end quote
quote: Jesus had a real body; He invited Thomas to touch Him (John 20:27). On this occasion Jesus walked into a real house, talked to real people, and ate real food (Luke 24:43). We can be assured that our heavenly bodies will be as solid and real as Christ’s resurrected body. end quote
quote: The resurrection of the body is what sets Christianity apart, as unique, in the religions of the world. Christianity says that the body is good. It is made by God, and He said it is very good. His Son took on a literal body in the Incarnation. He raised up His body and took it to heaven in the Ascension. His plan is to raise up all the redeemed in their bodies. The body is a key part of God's plan for man. God intends to save the bodies of men forever.end quote
quote: The physical body is not some evil thing that we need to escape from (as many non-Christians have taught). Jesus had a physical body, and there was nothing wrong with that.

In fact, Jesus was made flesh for the very purpose of redeeming all things (Col. 1:19-20). God is not abandoning the physical world — he is rescuing it. Romans 8:21 tells us that the physical creation will be liberated from its bondage when we are transformed into glory. This salvation involves the "redemption of our bodies" (v. 23).

Yes, our bodies will be redeemed, not discarded. Our bodies will be raised immortal and imperishable, freed from the decay that affects the physical world today. Christ has made it possible, as shown in his own resurrection with a body that transcends the limits of space and time.end quote


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## hawglips (Aug 13, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think the spirits of those in the ground were also in the ground in those bodies.



This is the first time I've ever heard a Christian suggest that a person's spirit stays in the body after physical death.

How do you arrive at that thinking?


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 13, 2012)

Job 14: 14
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5: 28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

I just don't see the point of going to Heaven as a soul only to come back for a body. It's not a popular mainstream belief. JW's, Seventh Day Adventist, and maybe a couple of more churches follow this belief.
 But then most churches don't follow the soul going to Sheol either. When you die does your soul go to the Judgements mentioned in the Bible or does your resurrected body go to the Judgements mentioned in the Bible?


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## StriperAddict (Aug 13, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> When you die does your soul go to the Judgements mentioned in the Bible or does your resurrected body go to the Judgements mentioned in the Bible?


 
Since man reasons with his mind, and the mind is part of the soul (Mind, will and emotions), then it can be deducted by Jesus telling of the rich man and Lazuras, that their soul went along to either paridise (Abraham's bosom) or not... since the rich man 'reasoned' as he spoke to Abraham.

Both your soul and spirit are part of the heaven deal when you loose the outer shell you carry now. (Flesh/blood cannot inherit the kingdom) and they are part of your redemption in Christ. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  

Your brain, however, is part of your flesh and is like a computer: garbage in... garbage out; truth in... truth out. The great thing is that it will be gone when we die, along with those nasty habit 'patterns' that were programmed in by the world... those fleshly 'skill sets' we used when we didn't know Christ and His word. 

But thank the Lord... Now our renewed minds with the Spirit of God lead our redeemed soul and spirit to walk in the 'New man', created in righteousness in Christ Jesus! Glory!


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 13, 2012)

Flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom but flesh & bones can. What is your belief on why our souls will return to Earth only to re-enter our newly restored bodies or are you under the opinion that our souls go to Abraham's bosom/Sheol? The idea that our souls must go to another place to wait for us to resurrect before going to Heaven isn't much different than Soul Sleep.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 13, 2012)

These following verses of scripture describe the events of the Second Coming:- Cor. 15: 51 - 58 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.

(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Matthew 27:52. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.

This is from a link I was looking at:
In conclusion, when people die, they do not go to heaven to be with God but they sleep in the dust of the earth until that bright and glorious morning when He shall return to resurrect the dead incorruptible, cover their mortality with immortality and take them to heaven; All the dead will remain in their graves up to that moment when all who are in their graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -ation. (John 5:28,29). Acts 24:15 talks about there being a resurrection of the dead, both the just and unjust. 2 Corinthians 4:14; He who raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise us up also by Jesus and shall present us with you. 1 Corinthians 15:16-22, 51-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 further put light on the second coming of Jesus, and the resurrection of the dead. God bless you all.
http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/death/present.html


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## barryl (Aug 13, 2012)

In post #52 Your belief, heres a new CONCEPT{PROPER CONTEXT} Here you go TITUS 3:9-10 KJV 1611 AV


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 14, 2012)

barryl said:


> In post #52 Your belief, heres a new CONCEPT{PROPER CONTEXT} Here you go TITUS 3:9-10 KJV 1611 AV



Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:10
A man that is divisive after the first and second admonition reject;

Are you suggesting we don't discuss  different beliefs? It would be nice if we could all go back to one denomination to promote unity.

Do you find Huntinfool's belief in souls not going to Heaven/He!! when we die just as divisive?

I could possible convert from "soul sleep" to "Sheol sleep" before believing our souls go straight to Heaven/He!!.
The final Judgement is what I don't completely understand. I guess we could get judged individually the moment we die. I've always thought it was after our resurrection.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 14, 2012)

Sheol Sleep article:
Sheol is Sleep
David prayed to the LORD, “Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death.”33  He anticipated that his death would find him in Sheol and doing what all others in Sheol are doing: not praising, not singing, not playing golden harps. He defined existence in Sheol as sleeping the sleep of death.  The exact phrase “slept with his fathers” is found 36 times in the Old Testament.34  It was a common expression used to describe the fact that someone had died.
Daniel described existence in Sheol as sleeping in the dust of the earth. 35  It was a condition which required an awakening – a resurrection. This sleep was never the hope of Old Testament saints. The resurrection and restoration to life was the hope. Sleep was simply a way of describing the state of death itself. Jesus used the same terminology to describe the death-state of Jairus’ daughter.36  He said of Lazarus (in Sheol) that he had “fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him”.37
Conditionalists prefer to use the term sleep to describe the intermediate state for several reasons, among them: 1) it is used by the scripture itself; 2) it emphasizes the need for resurrection; 3) it places the hope of humanity not in the death-state itself, but in the LORD who will raise (awaken) the dead.
http://www.afterlife.co.nz/free-resources/articles-reviews/sheol-the-old-testament-consensus/


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## hawglips (Oct 31, 2012)

Artful, what about Christ telling the thief on the cross, "today thou shalt be with me in paradise?"  We know he was resurrected on the 3rd day.  And we also know that he went to teach the spirits in "prison", in between His death and resurrection.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 31, 2012)

hawglips said:


> Artful, what about Christ telling the thief on the cross, "today thou shalt be with me in paradise?"  We know he was resurrected on the 3rd day.  And we also know that he went to teach the spirits in "prison", in between His death and resurrection.



You make a good point. As I said earlier, I could possible convert from "soul sleep" to "Sheol sleep" before believing our souls go straight to Heaven/He!!. Paradise being Sheol.


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