# Irish woman denied an abortion, dies as the result.



## Four (Nov 14, 2012)

Full Story Here

*Exerpt:*

_Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, â€œthis is a Catholic countryâ€�.

She spent a further 2½ days â€œin agonyâ€� until the foetal heartbeat stopped._

Thoughts?


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## stringmusic (Nov 14, 2012)

Wow, what a sad story.

Reading through the story, it seems it is at least a small stretch to assume that she would have been ok had they performed an abortion, the article never really says if that were the case or not. She died of septicaemia, which is a bacteria in the blood stream, nothing ever stated that the baby not being aborted caused it.

I think if they knew the baby wasn't going to make it, it's best to remove the child and give the mother the highest chance of survival. Like I said, it's is truely a very sad story, and unfortunately, sad stories are a part of life.


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## centerpin fan (Nov 14, 2012)

Four said:


> Thoughts?



That's socialized medicine for you.


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## Four (Nov 14, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> That's socialized medicine for you.



with a dash of religion in government


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## stringmusic (Nov 14, 2012)

Four said:


> with a dash of religion in government



Do you consider 1st degree murder religion in government?


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## Four (Nov 14, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Do you consider 1st degree murder religion in government?



I don't understand the question...

But maybe it would help if i clarified my statement.. One of the main political issues surrounding Christianity is abortion, along side gay marriage.

Although i'm sure there are many anti-abortion secularists, I would imagine something like this wouldn't happen if it wasn't for religious influence.. By that i mean refusing to give an abortion when it's obviously the best choice for all parties involved (including the fetus) this stinks of dogma.


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## stringmusic (Nov 14, 2012)

Four said:


> I don't understand the question...
> 
> But maybe it would help if i clarified my statement.. *One of the main political issues surrounding Christianity is abortion*, along side gay marriage.
> 
> Although i'm sure there are many anti-abortion secularists, I would imagine something like this wouldn't happen if it wasn't for religious influence.. By that i mean refusing to give an abortion when it's obviously the best choice for all parties involved (including the fetus) this stinks of dogma.



It is because many Christains, including myself, look at most abortion as murder, although I personally wouldn't look at it as murder in this particular case. I would look at this as more of a situation where somebody is simply going to die.

I may have "jumped the gun" a little with my question. 

Here is the point that I wanted to make, I would vote for abortion being illegal, and I can see that as forcing my morals on society, just like I support the law against murder and I also see that as forcing my morals on society.

I think anyone who thinks murder should be illegal, is forcing his or her morals on society. Then it simply comes down to what we personally think the definition of murder is. I include most abortions in that definition.


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## Four (Nov 14, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> It is because many Christains, including myself, look at most abortion as murder, although I personally wouldn't look at it as murder in this particular case. I would look at this as more of a situation where somebody is simply going to die.
> 
> I may have "jumped the gun" a little with my question.
> 
> ...



I'll try to skirt the political points.. as i don't want to open that can of worms.

Regardless if it's the law, or the hospital, or the doctor making a personal judgement, the influence of religious dogma made this possible. Be it the fervent anti-abortion stance, or the belief that death isn't absolute. 

Getting arguably too close to politics... i would take your argument a step further. If you would force your morality on society via vote, you should also be willing to enforce it yourself.

So, if you want to force your position that murder is wrong, you must be willing to use violence / force to stop a murderer, or incarcerate one yourself. 

Same with someone who gets an abortion.


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## stringmusic (Nov 14, 2012)

Four said:


> I'll try to skirt the political points.. as i don't want to open that can of worms.
> 
> Regardless if it's the law, or the hospital, or the doctor making a personal judgement, the influence of religious dogma made this possible. Be it the fervent anti-abortion stance, or the belief that death isn't absolute.


I can see why you take this stance given your philosophy on religion, but I would still argue that this was made possible by a certain society's definition of murder, and when and why that particular definition cannot be adjusted to not constitute murder. 

I don't want you to think that I believe that a certian religious influence had nothing to do with this scenario, because I do, it was made evident with the doctors saying "this is a Catholic country". I just believe that the definitions being used as to why this particular scenario happened have more to do with it.



> Getting arguably too close to politics... i would take your argument a step further. If you would force your morality on society via vote, you should also be willing to enforce it yourself.
> 
> So, if you want to force your position that murder is wrong, you must be willing to use violence / force to stop a murderer, or incarcerate one yourself.
> 
> Same with someone who gets an abortion.



I guess if it came down to me having to do those things, I would.


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## ted_BSR (Nov 16, 2012)

Murder and abortion are choices.

I have my beliefs, but I am not authorized to judge these choices for anyone but myself.

The federal government should protect it's citizens with the rule of law.

Whether it is legal or not, people will make choices.

God will judge those choices.


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