# Laws and Precedents Pertaining to shooting a bear out of season in defense of dog



## besclavon

I am new to GON, so thank you for your help/posts.

I have an issue where i was charged with shooting a bear out of season in Georgia last month and i would like to find more legal information. I was in the right for shooting due to self defense/property defense. I have googled this many times and not come up with many results, so I am looking for more help or advice to exonerate myself in court next month. I am a life long law abiding licensed hunter/fisher with no priors. It is unfortunate this happened, but I was protecting my dog. That is the only reason I shot. 

Here is my back story: A aggressive yearling male bear was foraging for food at my cabin in the N. Ga. mountains (i am not the only documented case. this has been a recent problem all over the county). The bear got into some cleaned recyclables and dug up a few yellow jackets nests. My dog, a 20lb beagle, got out and started messing with the bear. I yelled and made noise, the dog didn't listen, nor did the bear leave. I have a CCW permit, so i grabbed my glock and went to separate the 2. My dog bit the bear on the rear, the bear turned to go after the dog, and then i shot the bear once in the head and killed it. The bear was 2ft from the dog when i shot it. In addition, this all happened 10-15ft from the porch of my house on private property. I called DNR, reported it, asked for disposal help, and they cited me with a $150 fine and a violation of 27-3-15 (taking game out of season). I never admitted guilt on wrong doing on anything.

Does any one have any legal presidents on this issue or know of any laws to help? All the CCW laws I have found online all pertain to forcible felonies against people. I have also looked through all 27-3-x georgia laws and found no help. I just dont see how I cannot protect myself and my animals from dangerous game on my property. I surely cannot be the first person with this issue in georgia. DNR also said they did me the “favor” of only citing me with a small fine because of my compliance and suggest next time to just let the bear attack the dog (sickening). I just want to give my best effort to not go on record as a poacher from now on. I have a military service commitment coming up in a few months and I do not want to have to disclose this charge and have it possibly effect that. 

All advice/comments welcome, but this is NOT a debate on the issue. The bear is dead and my dog is safe, so now I am just looking for information to help. 

Thank you


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## bowbuck

You probably ain't gonna like it but here's my take on it.  Sounds to me like they did you a favor and wrote you a misdemeanor ticket probably cause you were honest and headed into the service. Pay the fine and be happy you didn't have to pay restitution.  From someone who has had multiple background checks for goverment agencies ran, you want to disclose everything anyway.  It's alot easier to explain how you got a ticket than why you lied about getting a ticket.  If you can't go overseas to kill terrorist and protect us cause you shot a nusiance bear then something is wrong anyway.   Pay it they helped you out all they could.  My parents neighbor shot one last year and it cost him alot more than that.  Good luck with it and chalk it up to experience.


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## ttm

besclavon said:


> I am new to GON, so thank you for your help/posts.
> 
> I have an issue where i was charged with shooting a bear out of season in Georgia last month and i would like to find more legal information. I was in the right for shooting due to self defense/property defense. I have googled this many times and not come up with many results, so I



If you find anything out will you post it or PM it to me, we have a bear that is fast becoming a problem after some of the neighbors decided it was a good idea to feed the thing,  I'm behind them with a large wooded lot full of berries and this bear has decided to get closer and closer to my home (treeing about 30 ft from the house now) 

Authorities will not move the bear, I wonder when it will become time I have to shoot it.

Thanks


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## pnome

ttm said:


> Authorities will not move the bear, I wonder when it will become time I have to shoot it.



If you've got a bow, tomorrow's the day!


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## treemanjohn

You called DNR so that it definitely in your favor. I'm actually a bit surprised that they wrote you a ticket. No poacher would have called.


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## lifeinthesouth

Sounds like you need to talk to a lawyer they would know better what the laws are.


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## Wes

Unless you know a lawyer or can find one on here to help you for free you should probably just go to court and explain yourself and hope the judge is having a good day..last time I checked lawyers cost a lot more than $150. I don't agree that they did you a favor. I guess its on how you look at it. Please post back the results of your court hearing. My suggestion is that next time instead of following their suggestion of letting the bear attack the dog you don't call DNR. Just skin that baby out and make yourself a nice rug for your cabin. Also, I am pretty sure there is a law against feeding bears so I would report your neighbors or PM myself or a host of other fellas on this forum and we could put an arrow into that problem bear for free!


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## Darkhorse

If there were no witness's then you shouldn't have called them. Sorry to bust the bubble of justice but that's the way some things are. 
We have a lease of several thousand acres in Central Ga. with an overabundance of bears and no hunting season. Each year they get a little more aggressive. It's all made worse because the club has hog baiting permits for the off season. The bears claim the corn, the piggies and the fawns for their own. When the hunter comes to the stand he is entering the bears territory. So conflicts arise......
leading to inviting a couple of game wardens onto the property to discuss the situation.
They said we should have a bear season but the legislature refuses to listen to the biologists. They agree we have some problem bears, especially one huge male with a yellow tag. So if it becomes neccessary to kill a bear to preserve life or property then......"Don't call us!"
"Just leave it and walk off. If you call us we gotta do something about you shooting it."
So far as I know nobody has shot a bear on our property yet. But if they did it wouldn't be told around. But we did take the advice from the men with the badge to heart.
FWIW I would kill a bear in a second to protect anything under my wing. Including a cat or dog. But I would take special precautions to keep them away from the bear in the first place.


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## Lake_and_stream

what county was it in??


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## Gumbo1

You know, I read this earlier and have been thinking about this all day. Just having a dead bear on your property after you shot it is the evidence needed to show aggression by the animal. I would be prepared to pay the fine, but ask the judge to listen to why the animal had to be put down. 
DNR rangers have to cover themselves also.
Good luck and let us know.


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## meatseeker

You killed it out of season, the law is the law. You are fortunate with a "slap on the wrist". I've had speeding tickets way more than that.Keep in mind if they completely let it slide, everyone would start shooting them and saying it was threatning them. It was just a bad senario for you, not saying I wouldn't do the same. With cabins on every mountain these days it has turned into a good food source for them especially with lots of cabin owners feeding the deer corn year round and because of their location they are unhuntable. And by the way thanks for your service.

and the pic in my avatar is 10yards off a porch of a cabin I used to take care of beside rich mountain.


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## ripplerider

You're not gonna want to hear this, but you've posted this on a public forum so here it is : I think you were completely in the wrong. How is digging up yellow jacket nests and nosing through recyclables a real threat to your property? Exactly how was it being aggressive? If you buy a cabin up here in bear country, expect to see bears. Thousands of people up here live with them without feeling the need to shoot them in the yard. Many of them have dogs. You dont hear about them being killed by the big bad bears. Not saying it's never happened but it sure is'nt common. I seriously doubt the bear would have been able to catch your 20 lb. beagle. How did you let your dog get out when there was a bear in the yard? Sorry but it sounds to me like you were a little quick on the trigger. I think you got off light. By the way, thanks for your service. Sorry if I sound harsh. Do you really expect bears (or any other animals) to understand the concept of private property?


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## tree cutter 08

dnr are funny about bears. they are getting to be a problem in the mountains around houses. i hear about it all the time. 150 aint much but its still 150. i would talk to the judge if you have to go to court. could go either way. if the bear was in your living room they might not have ticketed you. dnr's not in a big hurry to do anything about the population. limits still 1 and none under75lb. i like seeing them in the woods every once in a while but its a common thing now. their just a huge coon. talk to the old timer's in the mountains and ask them what they think about bears and your situation.


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## lbzdually

If your neighbors pit bull started chasing you or your dog with the intention of harming it could you legally shoot it?   if someone armed with a knife came at you or your family dog could you legally shoot it?  In both cases probably so, so why is it bears get more rights than a person.  I had a bear in Twiggs county walk within 25 yards of me after making it know I was a person.  It still didn't run off when I yelled and waved my arms.  I raised my gun and pointed in case it charged and only then did it run off.  It was a big bear and if it had came about 10 more yards closer, it would have a .270 in between the eyes.  the truth is some bears just aren't scared of people.  A couple of years ago a kid was killed on a school playground in Polk county, Tn just about 30 miles from me.  The bear had stalked and hunted the kid just like any prey species.   Anything or any person that comes up to me or my family or pet and intends or acts like it is about to any of us harm will get shot.  Self defense is a basic right, but I guess some GW's would rather the bear have more rights than humans.


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## tree cutter 08

most bears will leave the country when the see or smell you. the one that dosent is a problem. only seen i bear that didnt haul butt. he stood his ground and got as close as 15yds. i backed off slowly as he chopped his teeth and made short charges. in the 150lb range. this was up in the mountains along way away from any houses. what if this bear was in your yard with your 5yr old. what would you do. i know what i would. very rare to hear of a bear attack in the southeast. their wild animals so they are unpredictable. every situation is diffrent but i would have done the same thing.


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## 2bbshot

I would have shot that bear no doubt. Legal or not to me my dog is more important than a bear and if I thought it was going to hurt me or my dog then the bear has to go. I would fight it if it cost me thousands in lawyer fees because whats right is right. You have the right to defend you and yours period. Whats wrong in this country when a man gets a fine for shooting a bear in his yard that he thought was going to kill his dog!!!!


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## bolt5311

It is probably very uncommon for the bear not to run off. I would have done the same thing. In my opinion you have the right to protect yourself and your belongings. Hope all goes well. Good luck


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## ripplerider

How about a link to the case of the bear stalking and killing a kid in a schoolyard in  Polk co. Tenn. I live close to there too and never heard of this and frankly dont believe it. There was a girl killed at a waterfall in Benton Tenn. a couple of yrs. ago. Tragic and scary if you have kids but I just dont believe the schoolyard story. That would have made the national news. Yeah I would defend my kids to the death but it wasnt a kid that was threatened it was a beagle that he let get out of the house knowing there was a bear in the yard, which went after the bear first. Of course the bear responded to being bit on the butt. There was no indication of any humans being threatened at all.


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## lbzdually

ripplerider said:


> How about a link to the case of the bear stalking and killing a kid in a schoolyard in  Polk co. Tenn. I live close to there too and never heard of this and frankly dont believe it. There was a girl killed at a waterfall in Benton Tenn. a couple of yrs. ago. Tragic and scary if you have kids but I just dont believe the schoolyard story. That would have made the national news. Yeah I would defend my kids to the death but it wasnt a kid that was threatened it was a beagle that he let get out of the house knowing there was a bear in the yard, which went after the bear first. Of course the bear responded to being bit on the butt. There was no indication of any humans being threatened at all.



You know I could have sworn when the story came out it was a playground.  I searched it and it was at a park.  I think what I am remembering is right after that girl was killed, a bear was hanging around a school in Polk and made locals very nervous.  Either way my narrative was right, sometimes bears just attack.  It is rare, but so it getting struck by lightning and you don;t see me outside when it's storming.  

Oh and if a bear is on your land trying to kill one of your pets, you wouldn't do anything about it?    I'd say you would.  I let my little 6 lb dog out to go, does that means she deserves to be eaten if a bear happens upon my front yard?


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## besclavon

Thank you everyone for your replies. I am still looking for any legal advice or precedents, but I also have decided to go see the judge and hopefully convince him that this kill was a necessity and the bear forced my hand.  I have answered the various questions brought up in the posts below. 

Q:
“If you've got a bow, tomorrow's the day!” 
A:
Thank you, I am aware. I was out there this weekend trying to do just that. No luck, lots of rain. 


Q:
“You called DNR so that it definitely in your favor. I'm actually a bit surprised that they wrote you a ticket. No poacher would have called.” 
A: that was my thought and why I called DNR. I wanted to do it all by the book and thought that they would consider that.


Q:
Sounds like you need to talk to a lawyer they would know better what the laws are.
A:
I have a friend whose wife is a lawyer. Contract law is her specialty, but she offered to help look into it as a favor. I don't really think much will turn up.


Q:
you should probably just go to court and explain yourself and hope the judge is having a good day..
A:
That is my current game plan. I hope it works. I will keep this updated. I have a game camera on property and I took 16 different bear pictures at different times in a 48hr window. From 6pm until 8am they were everywhere. If I didn't have the photos, I would think there is no way there were 16 different bears. All photos are over an hour apart and most are distinctly different animals by size, age, and characteristics. Maybe a few are repeats, but still, that is ridiculous. 

I have pictures of the incident, the distances, and I am going to take in oodles of recent game camera pictures from the property. I am going to print 30 out on a page and take a few pages worth. Hopefully the judge will realize this is not just a one time “i was scared” incident and proof of a real infestation and aggression due to limited food from overpopulation. 


Q:
we could put an arrow into that problem bear for free!
A:
I put a hollow point in the “problem” bear's head already. That's what started this. 

Q:
If there were no witness's then you shouldn't have called them. Sorry to bust the bubble of justice but that's the way some things are. 
A:
Sadly, hindsight is 20/20.  I am not condoning breaking the law, but I definitely learned that the DNR is not always on your side. 3 of the 4 officers that worked my case were rude, accusatory, inconsiderate, and extremely late both times I had to meet them. 

Q:
what county was it in??
A:
I would prefer to wait until after trial to go over this. I will give badge numbers, county and specifics when done. I was in North Georgia.

Q:
DNR rangers have to cover themselves also.
A:
I am highly disappointed in DNR in this county. I have had several interactions with them (3 total) and all 3 times, they were underwhelming to be polite. I know if I performed like that in my job, I would be fired. 

Q:
How is digging up yellow jacket nests and nosing through recyclables a real threat to your property? How did you let your dog get out when there was a bear in the yard? Sorry but it sounds to me like you were a little quick on the trigger. I think you got off light. By the way, thanks for your service. Sorry if I sound harsh. Do you really expect bears (or any other animals) to understand the concept of private property?
A: The bear attacked my dog. My dog is my property and it was a threat to it
A: The bear came around the cabin and up the hill to meet my dog unbeknown to me. Then, my dog stood its ground and got in trouble. She loves barking, but she is a turbo weenie when it comes to fighting. 
A: I wish bears did understand property rights, then I would not have had to shoot it. But otherwise, it learned the hard way. I see them up there all the time and they don't bother me. In fact, they have gotten in trash before and I really don't care. I don't like it, but I understand. Things change when my dog or family become threatened.


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## ripplerider

Not looking for a fight but no I probably wouldnt if my dog attacked the bear first after being let out. i would trust it to take care of itself bear hunters who run them with dogs dont have that many fatalities dogs are pretty quick. Now if my dog was chaned up and a bear went after it it might be a different story. Bears dont seem to go after them like that they seem to be somewhat scared of them. Bears are like people they have different personalities but most of the ones that show no fear of man die quickly when bear season starts. All but two I've seen in the woods have departed very quickly. One of those just acted curious, the other spookede me a little as it seemed like it was circling me to cut me off from the way I'd come. Only had a 22 magnum as I was hog hunting, had a few tense moments before I got back to the truck.


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## MudDucker

I don't know of any cases regarding protection of dogs.  Go tell it to the Judge.


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## markland

Darkhorse, if that bear has a tag then it was probably a nuisance bear up north that was trapped and transplanted down south, that is a common practice with the DNR and trapping and relocating nuisance/problem bears.  Good luck with that!  When we had our hog lease in Twiggs Co we had to put our feeders hanging off 2 trees on chains to keep them about 10-12ft off the ground or else the bears would destroy them.  We used ladder stands on the trees to fill up the feeders with, but it worked out well.


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## ripplerider

Not trying to stir things up, but those of you who are so gung -ho about your right to protect your animals and property answer me this-would it be o.k. to shoot a buck illegally if it was horning on your prize apple trees? Or would you think you had a responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid using deadly force (like placing protective barriers around your trees, or not letting your dog out when theres a bear in the yard.)


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## Ole Fuzzy

1.  "Your honor, I was out in my yard minding my own business when the bear appeared from nowhere.  That bear scared me and I was in fear of being attacked and killed.  He was already after my dog and I was only a short distance away.  He was so close that I could shoot him accurately and kill him with a mere handgun."

2.  "Your honor, I have an inalienable right to life which encompasses a right of self defense against all aggressors--human and animal.  Any law to the contrary violates the GA constitution (cite specific provisions) and the US Constn..

You need to do some research.

http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/

http://www.sos.ga.gov/elections/constitution_2007.pdf


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## Nicodemus

Wasn`t me.



I don`t have a dog.


I don`t have a gun.



What bear?


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## Resica

A fed bear is a dead bear. Up here that bear better have drawn blood or you're in trouble.


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## Miguel Cervantes

Ole Fuzzy said:


> 1. "Your honor, I was out in my yard minding my own business when the bear appeared from nowhere. That bear scared me and I was in fear of being attacked and killed. He was already after my dog and I was only a short distance away. He was so close that I could shoot him accurately and kill him with a mere handgun."
> 
> 2. "Your honor, I have an inalienable right to life which encompasses a right of self defense against all aggressors--human and animal. Any law to the contrary violates the GA constitution (cite specific provisions) and the US Constn..
> 
> You need to do some research.
> 
> http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/
> 
> http://www.sos.ga.gov/elections/constitution_2007.pdf


 
That all works pretty good, if the county or municipality doesn't have a leash law.


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## dawg2

ripplerider said:


> Not trying to stir things up, but those of you who are so gung -ho about your right to protect your animals and property answer me this-would it be o.k. to shoot a buck illegally if it was horning on your prize apple trees? Or would you think you had a responsibility to do everything in your power to avoid using deadly force (like placing protective barriers around your trees, or not letting your dog out when theres a bear in the yard.)



Any person or animal that is a threat to my livestock or family will be dealt with.


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## Wes

*bear and fine solution*

Since its private land I think you ought to charge everyone that is interested $25 to harvest a bear from your land. We each take a bear  and when we check it in we let DNR know we got it at your place and that you send your regards. That would be a hoot and you could pay off your fine.


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## Dr. Strangelove

I can't say that I fault you, if one of my pets was being attacked by a bear and I had access one of my guns, I'd shoot it too.  However, I'd practice SSS (Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up).

You're obviously a good guy for having called DNR, and I'm sorry that you got messed up in all this, but I think you got a good deal out of the situation and should just take your lumps.

Trying to use the personal defense laws pertaining to shooting humans probably won't get you very far.  Bears are quasi protected and you're lucky you got off with what you did.  You would have a hard time defending killing a human for biting your beagle on the butt, and I don't think the fact that is was a bear will matter very much.

Taking the trail cam pics in will probably be a mistake, it only shows that you knew bears were active in the area, and didn't call DNR ahead of time to report a problem bear.  You admittedly didn't have control over your dog, which acted aggressively towards a bear which then defended itself, which you subsequently shot and killed.

If I were you, I'd be happy with the slap on the wrist that you got and leave it be.  Be thankful this wasn't on Federal land, or you'd be completely out of luck.


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## lifeinthesouth

I don't really know why it would be any different than if it was another dog after your dog or in your garbage. I know I had a family member that shot another dog that was after his dog. The owner pressed charges but when they told the judge that the dog growled at them (showing aggression) the judge dismissed the charges. I wish I knew more about the case I would be glad to share the info with you but it was in White County. Good luck with it. At least going before the judge maybe he will lesson the fine after hearing your side of the story.


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## 2bbshot

I got an idea. Let me come kill a bear with my bow in your backyard and ill pay your fine.

Seriously though I hope you dont have to pay one red cent I dont think your are getting a fair shake. Fight it till the end!!!!!


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## billysun

im actually going to school for criminal justice...those types of fines are not going to hurt you at all..from what i was told they will not even pull that part of your record...it's no big deal...i gotta ticket for hunting over bait a couple years..it does not show up on background check...


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## billysun

where i live there are no leash laws..if an animal comes on your property you can shoot it and not get introuble..course anyone could sue,etc...


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## billysun

My dogs would have killed the bear.  I have two great pyrenees....There puppys and already as tall as a bear...Great gaurd dogs!!  I'd shot it also..all you have to do is prove that you felt your life and dog's life, mainly yours was in danger...you can tell them that you thought the bear was going to come after you next...


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## besclavon

*bear shooting update*

ok, so here is an update. i went to court a couple weeks ago and there was a scheduling conflict. the day i was scheduled to go to court was mixed up and i was told to go home and come back the next day to speak with the judge. considering this is a 2 hour drive from my house, it was a pain. 

I went back the next day and spoke to the judge and his secretary was scornful and condescending for no reason. i was asking several questions for information and she got hostile and snippy. After speaking to the judge, he was not very friendly and had a good ole boy aire. I get the feeling that becuase i dont live in the county i am seen as a hot shot city person who got scared of a bear. he insisted several times to just pay the fine and go home. 

I got another continuance and i got an attorney. the attorney said that it was a minor issue that we should be able to get resolved. I really feel this is just a racket to take outsiders money since i have had several encounters with DNR and local authorities in which i was doing nothing wrong, but they just harassed me. i hope the attorney helps, if not, at least i know i fought it the best i could. 

i have a final court date the beginning of december. i will post the full results then.


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## tree cutter 08

what county was this in?


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## shea900

Thanks for the update. Very interesting. Good luck with it.


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## bfriendly

IMO, I agree with you shootin the Bear, I would have without hesitation.  It is sad that the SSS rule does have its place...........next time(this may happen again) leave it or drag it off a little ways downhill and let the yotes or other bears clean up the mess........I feel the DNR did their job and followed the rules of law, but you sure got Jipped!

Some of you may not understand this, but to some folks, their dogs ARE their children..........That dog was puttin its life on the line, tryin to protect its owner........that dog deserved the protection it got from the person responsible for it.

I seriously doubt you would stand their Glock in hand, and watch your dog get killed by a Bear, then say,"Well, if that dumb dog hadn't bitten that bear in the behind, blah blah blah......".........REALLY?


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## olcowman

Nicodemus said:


> Wasn`t me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don`t have a dog.
> 
> 
> I don`t have a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> What bear?



I did see a bear commit suicide once...


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## Bkeepr

Bring your little beagle to court with you, hopefully the judge is a dog lover too and will let you off the hook.

I wonder how nuisance bears would like some large bottle rockets?  It might make them want to pick another tree to snooze in.


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## oldmanbill

Just pretend you are buying your dog back from the state, it will be easier to live with.


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## fish hawk

If it were me I would go ahead and pay the fine and be done with it.$150.00 is less than most speeding tickets plus you dog is still alive!!!


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## Bowie

pay the fine man and be done with it.


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## besclavon

*final update after court*

I just got back from court a little while ago and i had good results. The judge was understanding and the charge was dropped entirely. I did get the assistance of a local attorney and everything went well. 

After the fact, I have heard from multiple local sources that DNR in the county were notorious for bringing a bunch of cases to court that were dropped because they were too far out there. 

This occurred in white county in the Chattahoochee National Forest wilderness area on private property in the forest. 

Although it was a pain, i am glad to find out that with effort, the local legal system is reasonable. I think it was worth the effort to not be branded a poacher for life. 

thank you for all the advice


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## 1022

besclavon said:


> I just got back from court a little while ago and i had good results. The judge was understanding and the charge was dropped entirely. I did get the assistance of a local attorney and everything went well.
> 
> After the fact, I have heard from multiple local sources that DNR in the county were notorious for bringing a bunch of cases to court that were dropped because they were too far out there.
> 
> This occurred in white county in the Chattahoochee National Forest wilderness area on private property in the forest.
> 
> Although it was a pain, i am glad to find out that with effort, the local legal system is reasonable. I think it was worth the effort to not be branded a poacher for life.
> 
> thank you for all the advice



Just found and read this thread glad things worked out for you.I would have done the same thing, shoot the bear,without a second thought.As some of the other posts said my dogs are my kids they look to me to take care of them,and they return that with unconditional love and I think they do all they can to protect us.Being in White county if this had gone to court and I had been on the jury you would have been acquitted.


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## Joe r

How much did the lawer cost?
Glad you got it all dropped!


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## Georgia Hard Hunter

I'm glad the Judge was a understanding and reasonable person, but DON'T CALL THE DNR IN THE FUTURE, JUST DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO AND BE DONE WITH IT.


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## RangerJ

Congrats to you for not (rolling over).Glad you got a favorable decision.Sometimes them Rabbit Sheriff's can be unreasonable.Just my 2 cents.


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## JustUs4All

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.  I can't remember who  I am quoting here, but it is some fine advice.


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## Luke0927

JustUs4All said:


> Shoot, shovel, and shut up.  I can't remember who  I am quoting here, but it is some fine advice.



You know its a shame to have to be like that when you want to do the right thing and call it in but your right I think you'll be better off, bout like hawks and the other predators messing with your animals.


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