# GSP Trainer- Dog not where I want him to be



## big nasty 13 (Jul 13, 2016)

Hello

I have had my GSP at a pretty well known trainer for the past 6 months, which I believe is plenty of time to get a well started gun dog from what I have been told. I am not going to mention the name of the trainer because I don't want to start any drama. I know every dog is different, but I am not very pleased with how far along he is for having him for 6 months. I took him this past duck season, could shoot around him, introduced to birds, and was decent when it came to obedience at 3-4 months old. My question is with 6 months at a trainer I hate to cut him off and bring him back, but at the same time how far along should he be based on dogs you have trained or had trained before? He will be 1 next month. 

Thanks for any info, this is my first pup btw.


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## Luke0927 (Jul 14, 2016)

Nothing like training your own dog. But if not check with Brenda at walnut hills kennels. In layfayette. I have not used her but a buddy had some good dogs from her and I rode up a couple times when she was working one of his dogs. Thats all been a couple years now but if all is still the same they were doing well.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 14, 2016)

Can't compare any dog, regardless of breed, against another when it comes to where they are in their training after a specified amount of time. Each dog is different. Maybe your dog simply isn't that good...maybe the trainer is that good...maybe the two don't mesh and a simple change of scenery is enough to bring out the best in your dog. If you're not happy however, you need to be having this conversation with your trainer, face to face, not on an internet forum. You've also already admitted this is your first puppy... expectations should have been discussed before the first check was written.


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## Water Swat (Jul 14, 2016)

He should be as far along as he should be...they're all different. You gotta either trust your trainer or pull the dog. No one on here can tell you where the dog should be in training.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 14, 2016)

I would pull the dog if it were mine.  Either the dog ain't gonna make a gun dog, or the trainer ain't the one to train him.

If you believe in the dog, put him with someone else for a few weeks, and see if he is doing better.

If the dog ain't gonna cut it, at least you will have a good pet.


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## king killer delete (Jul 14, 2016)

Joe Overby said:


> Can't compare any dog, regardless of breed, against another when it comes to where they are in their training after a specified amount of time. Each dog is different. Maybe your dog simply isn't that good...maybe the trainer is that good...maybe the two don't mesh and a simple change of scenery is enough to bring out the best in your dog. If you're not happy however, you need to be having this conversation with your trainer, face to face, not on an internet forum. You've also already admitted this is your first puppy... expectations should have been discussed before the first check was written.


exactly. Some kids are A students some are not. Some people learn at different rates. Some people are good at math some are not. 
You think that Six months is enough? Why? Because some one said this or told you this. Why do you think this is enough time. Your dog may be a great dog and he may not. No dog is the same just as people are not the same. Some dogs mature at different rates. To take a set amount of time and say that you can make a dumb animal into something may or may not happen. Depends on your dog, your trainer and the method of training. I have not trained dogs in allot of years but I do know that things don't always go the way you think they should.


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## king killer delete (Jul 14, 2016)

Water Swat said:


> He should be as far along as he should be...they're all different. You gotta either trust your trainer or pull the dog. No one on here can tell you where the dog should be in training.


This to ^^^^


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## Joe Overby (Jul 15, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I would pull the dog if it were mine.  Either the dog ain't gonna make a gun dog, or the trainer ain't the one to train him.
> 
> If you believe in the dog, put him with someone else for a few weeks, and see if he is doing better.
> 
> If the dog ain't gonna cut it, at least you will have a good pet.


Ain't a trainer on earth that can do anything worth doing in a couple weeks and its ridiculously unreasonable to ask that of one.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 15, 2016)

Joe Overby said:


> Ain't a trainer on earth that can do anything worth doing in a couple weeks and its ridiculously unreasonable to ask that of one.



I said a few weeks, not 2 weeks.  and if you don't see improvement in 5 or 6 weeks, the dog may be able to do the job.  I have raised one or two dogs in my time, and I have trained some.  One dog may be sharp as a tack, and another out of the litter is dumb as a box of rocks.  They are all different.

If my dog was at a trainer for 6 months and not cutting it, first I would be upset with the trainer for not letting me know it wasn't progressing, #2, I would be evaluating the  dog closely, and #3, I would either find another trainer, or I would retire that dog and start over.  

Some dogs just never make it.


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## Water Swat (Jul 15, 2016)

There's so much vagueness in this thread about the dog , no one has business evaluating or commenting on whether the dog should be in training or not. 6 months isn't the magic number that either they will or won't be a good dog. Some take longer and turn into great dogs. Some mature slower. Doesn't make them a lesser dog just means it might take longer. The OP never even said how far along he was. Just that he wasn't happy. I would ask why were trying to make a GSP into a duck dog? 
Where is the dog in his training? What aren't you happy with? Where SHOULD he be at this point? 
Again if you don't trust him , go get the dog.


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## Joe Overby (Jul 15, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I said a few weeks, not 2 weeks.  and if you don't see improvement in 5 or 6 weeks, the dog may be able to do the job.  I have raised one or two dogs in my time, and I have trained some.  One dog may be sharp as a tack, and another out of the litter is dumb as a box of rocks.  They are all different.
> 
> If my dog was at a trainer for 6 months and not cutting it, first I would be upset with the trainer for not letting me know it wasn't progressing, #2, I would be evaluating the  dog closely, and #3, I would either find another trainer, or I would retire that dog and start over.
> 
> Some dogs just never make it.



And still I would ask what possibly could be done in 6 weeks?? I agree with swat, there ain't a magic number as far as time in relation to where a dog should be. I do this for a living...I know a little about dog progression and managing client expectations. I will say this though, the dog may be exactly where the trainer thinks the dog should be...and if that's the case then the op and the trainer need to sit down and discuss expectation. In the end though, it sounds as if the op isn't happy with his trainer...at the very least he has some doubts...and it sounds like communication is poor...and it may be best for all involved for the op to find a new trainer.


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## Melvin4730 (Jul 18, 2016)

Somethings wrong with the dog or the trainer, if the dog isn't well started with six months of training, at a year old. Just about any well-bred pup would be well started with that much training time. Sure, some are going to be much better than others. Depending on the type of hunting and dog...flushing, pointing, retrieving etc. I don’t know if the op is using the dog as a retriever or a bird dog (pointer). A whole different process and time table for these types of training. But, still…. You described a dog that at 3 or 4 months old had basic obedience started and gun introduction down. That dog has now had 6 months of professional training. So, that dog is a year old.

One of three things…in no particular order…

1)	That dog is well below average
2)	The trainer is incompetent
3)	The dog has not been worked like he should have been over the past six months. He has sat in a pen….for a large portion of that time.

What is the dog doing?


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 18, 2016)

Melvin4730 said:


> Somethings wrong with the dog or the trainer, if the dog isn't well started with six months of training, at a year old. Just about any well-bred pup would be well started with that much training time. Sure, some are going to be much better than others. Depending on the type of hunting and dog...flushing, pointing, retrieving etc. I don’t know if the op is using the dog as a retriever or a bird dog (pointer). A whole different process and time table for these types of training. But, still…. You described a dog that at 3 or 4 months old had basic obedience started and gun introduction down. That dog has now had 6 months of professional training. So, that dog is a year old.
> 
> One of three things…in no particular order…
> 
> ...



Mack has said much more eloquently what I was trying to say.  This dog is at least IMHO a year old.  It should have had basic obedience training and gun training before it ever reached the trainer.  If it didn't, the pup started out way behind.  Any pup should have been conditioned to people, and have all the basic commands down pat before it ever went to a professional trainer.  Come, heel, sit, stay, down, and if a retreiver, fetch and hold.

When I raised and trained labs, if a dog couldn't or wouldn't perform those tasks by 6 months, it was going to be a pet.  There are too many good dogs out there to waste a year on trying to get a below par dog up to average performance.

Now if the wife and kids just adore the dog, make into a house pet.  If not, I would be hunting another dog to train.

That's my opinion, and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.


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## big nasty 13 (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks for all the input. He really is a smart dog, and the trainer actually wants to breed him with one of his dogs, it just seems like that every time I call to go do a session with him and the dog,  the trainer its always doing something else or has something to do. Just don't think he's getting worked as much as I thought he would. I know that I'm going about it wrong getting a pointer to be a "duck dog", but I really just wanted a good all around dog for any kind of bird hunting. Just wanted to get the point of view from others experience with sending their dogs off. 
Thanks


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## Dbender (Jul 20, 2016)

big nasty 13 said:


> Thanks for all the input. He really is a smart dog, and the trainer actually wants to breed him with one of his dogs, it just seems like that every time I call to go do a session with him and the dog,  the trainer its always doing something else or has something to do. Just don't think he's getting worked as much as I thought he would. I know that I'm going about it wrong getting a pointer to be a "duck dog", but I really just wanted a good all around dog for any kind of bird hunting. Just wanted to get the point of view from others experience with sending their dogs off.
> Thanks





Anyone wanting to breed a young dog that isn't a prodigy doesn't need to be working dogs for other people or even himself.  That alone should tell you all you need to know about your so called trainer.


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## AllTerrainAngler (Oct 23, 2016)

How far along is he? 

I train my GSP pretty much on my own with a little help from my roommate who has a kennel. At 5 months He has basic obedience down including hand signals and e-collar. Also whistle sit and will retrieve. Last week I started working with him with live quail and he's already doing well with it. On the other hand my neighbor has a 9 month old GSP that can barely sit on its own.


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