# .357 or .45acp for bear backup



## Mangler (Nov 12, 2011)

Shouldn't need either one but...I'm going on a black bear hunt in North Georgia next week and am wanting to take a pistol for the unexpected. I have a Ruger .45acp and a 6" Rossi .357 mag. to choose from. This won't be used for the primary means of killing one (30.06 will be used for that), but would just feel better with a pistol on my side in case something happens going to/from the stand. If these are your only 2 options, which one would ya'll choose?


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## WTM45 (Nov 12, 2011)

Which one are you most accurate with?

Me, I'd take the velocity of the .357 with a premium hard cast bullet.
Either would do for a pinch.


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## Mangler (Nov 12, 2011)

Very comfortable with both of them. I was leading towards the .357mag. I have some 158gr CCI Lawmens that are supposed to be pretty tough bullets.

By 'hard cast' bullets are you referring to 'semi-wadcutters'?


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## ejs1980 (Nov 12, 2011)

I would go with the 357 with 180 grain cast. Something like the ones offered by buffalo bore.


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## WTM45 (Nov 12, 2011)

A 180 hard cast like Federal or Buffalo Bore would give dependable penetration.


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## BlackKnight755 (Nov 12, 2011)

You don't want the Lawman rounds. Even though you may get some added velocity, those are usually a hollowpoint. You want a hard solid tipped bullet for added penetration. A hollowpoint will enter the bruin and flatten out very quickly where as a solid bullet will retain its shape and go deeper into the animal. Good luck on your hunt!


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## Mangler (Nov 12, 2011)

BlackKnight755 said:


> You don't want the Lawman rounds. Even though you may get some added velocity, those are usually a hollowpoint. You want a hard solid tipped bullet for added penetration. A hollowpoint will enter the bruin and flatten out very quickly where as a solid bullet will retain its shape and go deeper into the animal. Good luck on your hunt!



How bout some 158grain semi-wadcutters?


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## ejs1980 (Nov 12, 2011)

Truth be known you probably don't need anything and the chance encounter with a bear on the way to and from the stand would be handled better with your 30 06 than any handgun you have. 158 grain swc is better than the hollow points you have but not much better than your 45 with ball ammo. Most 158 grain swc's don't have much frontal area. I would either get the 180's or load it up with what you have and save it for a scenario of your lying on your back with a bear on top of you.


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## BlackKnight755 (Nov 12, 2011)

... What ejs said. I would try to get a 180 or 200 grain hard cast bullet to load it with. I would leave the 158 swc's at home for plinking. Corbon make a great 200 grain with alot of energy. •Manufacturer Number: HT357200HC  it is a little expensive, I just found it for $28.00 for 20 rounds, but it would be better suited for your needs.

BTW I was looking at ammo supply . com. They have it in stock, and you could have it before your hunt so you could test a few rounds.


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## joe sangster (Nov 13, 2011)

Not enough gun for bear !  44mag would be minimum.


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## jack10 (Nov 13, 2011)

why in the world do you want to tote around a heavy expensive pistol when you have a rifle with you. You will probably be exhausted walking around in the mountain. Leave the pistol at home. You will be glad you did. You will not need it. If you leave it in your truck someone will steal it. There are alot of breakins in North GA.


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## WTM45 (Nov 13, 2011)

jack10 said:


> why in the world do you want to tote around a heavy expensive pistol when you have a rifle with you. You will probably be exhausted walking around in the mountain. Leave the pistol at home. You will be glad you did. You will not need it. If you leave it in your truck someone will steal it. There are alot of breakins in North GA.



All the more reason to carry a handgun, IMO.


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## Garcia Mitchler (Nov 13, 2011)

I carry a .357 Mag with the 180's from Corbon. By hard cast they mean 'Linotype' metals mixed to a Brinell Hardness of over 20, (I'm not a reloader, going by what other reloaders advised me). The Brinell Hardness of Lead is only about 4. The offerings from Corbon and BB are Linotype, which is the 'hard cast' metal they are talking about, and designed for dangerous game. Do an internet search, these rounds have already been proven in the field on large angry hogs and bear. Designed to crush bone as well. I've never seen a 158 hp advertised as a bone crusher...

Before the advent of these commercially available rounds I wouldn't have felt comfortable with less than .44 Mag, but this new generation of bullets are game changers for the .357 Mag. Plus, I can shoot my .357 better. 

I do suggest that you only carry these in a strong action with at least a 4" barrel, such as a Ruger GP-100, Redhawk, or Blackhawk, S&W 686, Colt Anaconda etc.

As far as to whether a Black Bear is dangerous, I served 2 tours in Alaska and hunted the NW. I can tell you a Black Bear can turn on you in a heartbeat and kill, and are MORE prone to aggression than a Grizzly. Anyone that says otherwise obviously doesn't believe in empirical data. I believe its only a matter of time before we see more bear altercations in Ga, and I don't believe the bunk that our bears here are "different" than bears out west... As far as rifle vs handgun, a bear can be on you lightning fast before you get your rifle up, and you'll be glad you have more than your 'Bear Grylls' Gerber at your side. Plus, weight wise... I carried heavier combat loadouts in the jungles of South America (actually I think they were punishing me ). My GP-100 is nothin...


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## jack10 (Nov 13, 2011)

WTM45 said:


> All the more reason to carry a handgun, IMO.



good answer.


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## WTM45 (Nov 13, 2011)

jack10 said:


> good answer.



Was not attempting to be a wise cracker, but I ALWAYS consider that my handgun is much more likely to be used to protect my hide from ill-willed HUMANS than any animal.


Now, if the handgun is to be my primary and only hunting tool, I'll try to match it to the needs for the game I'm going after.  I still keep in the back of my mind it could be two legged critters that give me safety concerns.


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## flingin1 (Nov 13, 2011)

well i would say 357 but u have 6 shots versus the 45 youd have 10 to 13 rounds


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## GAR (Nov 15, 2011)

I would use the bullet on the right in the picture. Heavy dose of 2400 or H110/296 and I would be good to go.

That is the original bullet designed for the 357 mag.

Tom


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## HighCotton (Nov 15, 2011)

Just curious because it has more applications than just this bear situation-- but for a 45, what's the hottest, badest ammo/load available?


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## trial&error (Nov 15, 2011)

HighCotton said:


> Just curious because it has more applications than just this bear situation-- but for a 45, what's the hottest, badest ammo/load available?



For 2 legged or 4 legged varmits?


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## WTM45 (Nov 15, 2011)

HighCotton said:


> Just curious because it has more applications than just this bear situation-- but for a 45, what's the hottest, badest ammo/load available?



Look into (Google) the .45 Super.
Gotta have the correct recoil springs for sure.  But there are some pretty impressive loads that can be ran through the .45ACP.


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## ALPHAMAX (Nov 16, 2011)

what will 9mm do?


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## John I. Shore (Nov 16, 2011)

ALPHAMAX said:


> what will 9mm do?



Get you Bear Bit! 



John I.
Messermacher


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## Cobra (Nov 16, 2011)

messermacher said:


> Get you Bear Bit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



         :worm:


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## HighCotton (Nov 17, 2011)

trial&error said:


> For 2 legged or 4 legged varmits?



Either or both.


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## WTM45 (Nov 17, 2011)

ALPHAMAX said:


> what will 9mm do?



Makes deep holes, and kills stuff.


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## Ohoopee Tusker (Nov 17, 2011)

May be a little late here. But, since you have both weapons. I would wet a bunch of phone books and fire different rounds from both cals. into them. Then go with the one that gives the best penetration.


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## Dyrewulf (Nov 20, 2011)

.357 magnum:  The lowest loading I can find generates more ft/lbs of energy than the high end of a .45 ACP.  If it was a simple self-defense situation (i.e. against crime) I would reverse that for a lot of reasons, but against bears, unless you are much more comfortable with the .45, I'd go with the .357.


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## Mangler (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the info guys. I took the .357mag with us (me and my son). We didn't see any bears, but my brother was able to down one with his 7mag. There was a lot of sign, and I felt a little safer walking out in the dark with the pistol on my side (even though it was 'inferior'). I figured if worse came to worse it would be better than a knife.


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## LDHunter (Nov 22, 2011)

Dyrewulf said:


> .357 magnum:  The lowest loading I can find generates more ft/lbs of energy than the high end of a .45 ACP.  If it was a simple self-defense situation (i.e. against crime) I would reverse that for a lot of reasons, but against bears, unless you are much more comfortable with the .45, I'd go with the .357.



Spot on!!! Well put sir....

The 45ACP doesn't penetrate well enough for bear and although the 357 is marginal it's certianly a better choice.

My personal favorite is a Glock Model 20 in 10mm with Double Tap Ammo 180gr Gold Dots as a backup and for a primary weapon a 44mag gets the nod but a 7mm or bigger bore rifle is a far better tool when black bears are involved.

$bob$


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## trial&error (Nov 23, 2011)

ALPHAMAX said:


> what will 9mm do?



If its all I had I'd bring it, but fortunately I have bigger choices.


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