# Coyote or Red Wolf?



## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

I think its a coyote just looks a little diferent than others i've taken. He'll make good mount anyway!


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## BPR (Dec 22, 2009)

Based on the first pic, I said German Shepherd.  Based on the last pic, I'd say maybe a yote / German Shepherd cross.  Looks to be pretty big.


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## Davans (Dec 22, 2009)

Yote

What ya got in that puddle that is attracting the deer?


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

Thats an old mineral site that gets refreshed every year, its had every thing from rock salt to clalcium phospate dumped in it. I pulled the card the other day and had over 800 photos from beginning of season.


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

Few more!


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## MR.BIGBUCK (Dec 22, 2009)

I would say part wolf do not know where the pic was taken back about 8 to 10 years ago i took one i thought was a coyt but i brought it home and every body that say it said it was a wolf I called the state and the man came to my house to see what i took to find out that i took a wolf in douglas county was a shock to me and still is. it was a 94 pound wolf that the game warden said was keep in a fence and must have got out. so take it if you get a chance then find out.


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## biggtruxx (Dec 22, 2009)

God they love the water in that hole lol............. how long it been there?


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

I bought this old farm 9 years ago and that was an old clay site they were already hitting, started throwing minerials-salt in it. So its been there 9 years. I've got probably a few thousand pictures over that site in the last year, Coons-Fox-coyotes-rabbits-turkeys, But this critter looked kinda odd. I've killed several coyotes off this place and they all looked like yotes, this ones different!


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## dawg2 (Dec 22, 2009)

That really looks more like a Red Wolf than a yote.

http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/images/Barron Crawford FWS.jpg

Since it is listed as "Critically Endangered" I would make sure you get a positive ID before killing it.


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

I hope it is, kinda neat! he has a free pass, they are on the endangerd species list and highly protected. They were considerd extinct in 1980 in the eastern U.S. but thru captured breeding and restocking they are showing up. rather have him than a yote...if thats what it is! 
Thanks for that site Dawg2, the tail and color phase sure match up!


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## dawg2 (Dec 22, 2009)

The only way to tell for sure is with a DNA test.


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## shakey gizzard (Dec 22, 2009)

Hybrid! And nice lick!


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

You remember the deal with the panther killed...not me! unless he keeps killing chickens and believe i've solved that problem with a 150lb Great Pyrenese that now guards the place.


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## dylankd22 (Dec 22, 2009)

just a red colored yote. killed one looked just like it


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## shakey gizzard (Dec 22, 2009)

lone cedar farm said:


> You remember the deal with the panther killed...not me! unless he keeps killing chickens and believe i've solved that problem with a 150lb Great Pyrenese that now guards the place.



Donkeys work better! Dog food is high dolla!


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 22, 2009)

shakey gizzard said:


> Donkeys work better! Dog food is high dolla!



I'd look funny with a donkey riding in the bed of my truck!


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## FIRSTSHOT (Dec 22, 2009)

Is this waterhole on your property? What in the world is in that stuff? You need to bottle that stuff.


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## FIRSTSHOT (Dec 22, 2009)

What is the cameria you are using. It takes great photos.


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 23, 2009)

It is on my place, and the camera is a moultrie! this was an old clay mineral site the deer were already hitting, i just started adding to it.

I'll tell you a secret that deer love...1 part rock salt to 1 part Brown sugar on a clay base, kind of a salty-sweet treat. salt seems to keep the ants away also.


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## 25-06 man (Dec 23, 2009)

that ol doe showing what she thinks of your camera aint she


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## xtreme05 (Dec 23, 2009)

Sorry not a wolf yotes get big in the east have killed one just like it.


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## Booner Killa (Dec 23, 2009)

I think it's just a yote also but it looks like a big one and wouldn't surprise me at all if it was a red wolf!!!


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## Lowjack (Dec 24, 2009)

Eastern Red Wolf


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## bfriendly (Dec 24, 2009)

I just asked my wife if it was a Red WOlf or a Coyote and she said FOX


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## dawg2 (Dec 24, 2009)

xtreme05 said:


> Sorry not a wolf yotes get big in the east have killed one just like it.



Eatsern Red Wolf and Yotes are about the same size.  The only way to tell for sure is a DNA test.


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## Dpsmith (Dec 26, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> That really looks more like a Red Wolf than a yote.
> 
> http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/images/Barron Crawford FWS.jpg
> 
> Since it is listed as "Critically Endangered" I would make sure you get a positive ID before killing it.



from this pic looks like a red wolf. the side shot it appears to have to same color marking as the wolf. hard to tell for sure.


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## olcowman (Dec 26, 2009)

I have read that genetically speaking that red wolves and yotes are almost identical and may have actually evolved from gray wolves and coyotes hybridizing over the eons? (google it) On the other hand, has anyone ever seen a 'real, verified' coydog? How does one distinguish between a yote and a coydog? Are the yote/dog hybrids common anywhere in the state?


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## Daddy Rabbit Kennels (Dec 26, 2009)

*Rabbit Tracks Everywhere````````````````````````````````````See them?*

Hay Boss Man:

That is a might Healthy, Coyote, must be the Doe Pee!!

That old Doe, looks like Hillery Clinton, In Action!!

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Rabbit Town`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>


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## cj5 buggy (Dec 26, 2009)

nice pics... 

i sent the pics of the yote/wolf/cross bread thing-a-ma-jig to a friend...


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## shakey gizzard (Dec 26, 2009)

olcowman said:


> I have read that genetically speaking that red wolves and yotes are almost identical and may have actually evolved from gray wolves and coyotes hybridizing over the eons? (google it) On the other hand, has anyone ever seen a 'real, verified' coydog? How does one distinguish between a yote and a coydog? Are the yote/dog hybrids common anywhere in the state?



Yes, in Taylor county! Texas is also loaded. Google it!


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## seaweaver (Dec 26, 2009)

Yote.
I have had a few reds for ...company.
They look more wolf than yote.
That is a pretty color.


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## shakey gizzard (Dec 27, 2009)

Its definitely a yote, but hybridization does occure!


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## Mr.243 (Dec 27, 2009)

That`s a red wolf you can tell by looking at the ear`s


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## olcowman (Dec 27, 2009)

Mr.243 said:


> That`s a red wolf you can tell by looking at the ear`s



Aren't the red wolves pretty much extinct except for a few that may have somehow survived a failed reintroduction effort in North Carolina years ago? According to some posters here it seems they are getting as common as black panthers?


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## xtreme05 (Dec 27, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Eatsern Red Wolf and Yotes are about the same size.  The only way to tell for sure is a DNA test.



Wow ive been killin (red wolfs)all these years.I'll have to start gettin dna samples


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## dawg2 (Dec 27, 2009)

xtreme05 said:


> Wow ive been killin (red wolfs)all these years.I'll have to start gettin dna samples



Post up the pics of the yotes you have killed with those colors.


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## redneckcamo (Dec 27, 2009)

looks almost identical to the pic dawg2 posted .........beautiful animal either way !


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## xtreme05 (Dec 27, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Post up the pics of the yotes you have killed with those colors.



Dont really know how but will try to figure out.One i killed a few weeks back is close to that color .And come on everyone knows yotes come in all colors gray,brown,black,red but mostly a little of each.


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## rocket (Dec 27, 2009)

lone cedar farm said:


> It is on my place, and the camera is a moultrie! this was an old clay mineral site the deer were already hitting, i just started adding to it.
> 
> I'll tell you a secret that deer love...1 part rock salt to 1 part Brown sugar on a clay base, kind of a salty-sweet treat. salt seems to keep the ants away also.



How big a "part" are you putting in that hole??


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## Swamprat (Dec 27, 2009)

olcowman said:


> Aren't the red wolves pretty much extinct except for a few that may have somehow survived a failed reintroduction effort in North Carolina years ago? According to some posters here it seems they are getting as common as black panthers?



That is what I thought. I think in 98 or so they tried to reintroduce them in North Carolina and the only other place I can think where they are raising them is St. Vincent's Island.


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## dawg2 (Dec 27, 2009)

xtreme05 said:


> Dont really know how but will try to figure out.One i killed a few weeks back is close to that color .And come on everyone knows yotes come in all colors gray,brown,black,red but mostly a little of each.



I would love to see some red ones with the whites patches like the pic I posted and the one the OP posted that you have killed.


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 27, 2009)

I Put a salt block right in the middle around April, then mix around 5lbs rock salt- 5 lbs brown sugar and spread around the block in the water. Also use WTI 30-06 mineral, arm & Hammer washing soda and calcium chloride. Then about mid summer i'll do the same again. As for salt, water softner works great also.

Dont use the calcium chloride unless your site stays moist or wet.
The wshing soda you can get at Wal-mart...not washing powder but soda, big difference!


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks, I've passed that six a few times this hoping Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- make a good 8 next year to mount, as of this past Friday hes still here!

Heres one thats noy though! The big 6 was running with this guy opening morning and almost twice his size but i took this one.

No profanity in this post: hoping he'll make a big 8 next year! must have been the He'll!


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## Katera73 (Dec 29, 2009)

I'd say yote but who knows for sure with out dna. Nice buck you got by the way congrats do you actully hunt over that mineral hole?


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 29, 2009)

Katera73 said:


> I'd say yote but who knows for sure with out dna. Nice buck you got by the way congrats do you actully hunt over that mineral hole?



That site is actualy tucked away in an area we leave as a sanctuary, i've only been back there once since deer season to change the card. I'm going to pull it again next week so should have some good stuff on it.


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## lone cedar farm (Dec 29, 2009)

Few more from back in the summer!


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## barracuda7199 (Dec 29, 2009)

u getting some really nice and consistent daytime pics there


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## tankeryanker (Dec 29, 2009)

i live in the central part of north carolina but they introduced red wolves into the eastern part of the state years ago........looks like a red wolf to me, they get big, yotes round these parts rarely hit 50 lbs.......if you let some of these boys convince you its a yote and you decided to pop him, better keep it under your hat and not be posting him laying there dead with a thread saying look at this huge coyote.......theyre protected, but i wouldnt wanna walk outta the woods with that thing running around either........just saying........


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## Jarred (Dec 30, 2009)

Yote, no shortage of game at your hunting ground.


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## seaweaver (Dec 30, 2009)

This red is a bit lighter than what we had.
Bride took this pic at Jax Zoo last week

cw


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## spearjunky (Dec 30, 2009)

That shure enough is a RED WOLF not a yote.


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## Killdee (Dec 30, 2009)

Purdy critter for sure. The key to a good lick is the clay and in a low spot. I have put out 100 I bet over the 30 years we have been hunting our place and only have a few that they really take to. I have 1 that looks just like this lick that holds water and deer year round. I use a similar potpourri of salt block dical soda and sweeteners.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jan 1, 2010)

I have trapped coyotes out west and in SOWEGA, I have said this before, the "coyotes" we have here ain't the same animal that is out west.  Coyotes are a relatively new animal in this part of the country, I can remember when they first started showing up.  I have trapped a number of them in my area that had 20 to 30 or more pounds on them than the biggest one I ever got out west.  They haven't evolved to be so different than their western brothers and sisters in such a short time.  

I live about 4 or 5 miles from Chehaw Park in Albany  and go out there quite often, they have a breeding pair of red wolves from that federal program, I can not tell much difference from them and most of our local coyotes.  The red wolf is a relatively new beast according to genetic studies and most now believe they are the result of continued interbreeding with timber wolves and coyotes.

When coyotes started showing up in Georgia it was first along the flint river and chattahoochee river drainages, well as we all know they flow into the apalachicola drainage, which back in the 70s (same time the yotes started showing up) was probably the wildest and least populated part of florida that would be from the big bend all the way to the alabama line, on the gulf.  The last known wild population of the red wolf was on the gulf over on the texas and louisianna border and it is pretty wild from that area over to the big bend, at least back in the 70s.  I have not seen any genetic studies on our "brush wolves" as I call them, I would love to see some though, I would be willing to bet that the red wolf aint in as bad a shape as the feds say they are, I would be willing to bet that they are as common as coyotes in SOWEGA.  With all that being said, I would bet the varmit in your pic is probably a canine with some wolf genes in it....


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## Bkeepr (Jan 1, 2010)

Heavier skull and thicker bones = red wolf.


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## Amohkali (Feb 1, 2010)

Yote.  The head shape in the second pic tells you more than anything else.  If you see a Red Wolf up close, you see the difference better than any other way (have seen the ones on St. Vinnie's).

The coat color is odd for a red wolf too, but not for some local strains of 'yote.  You can order these reddish black furs from Moscow Hide and Fur -- they say they look more like the ones in Southern California than the local ones in Idaho.  

Seems like we've got all kinda color strains here in the SE -- the really pale ones, normal dark tan, red, and black.


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## basspro2232 (Feb 4, 2010)

yote...and that is one manly 6 ptr


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## bone crusher 3 (Feb 4, 2010)

yote


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## bone crusher 3 (Feb 4, 2010)

yoter dog


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## Son (Feb 4, 2010)

Coyote, we see em like that in SW Ga. That's a nice six point, as sixes go.


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## JasonWMcCorkle (Feb 7, 2010)

nice pics


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## DukeBoy30 (Feb 8, 2010)

what ever he is i'd hate to corner him he looks bigger thhan a yote


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## kbhunter (Feb 23, 2010)

The head on a red wolf is generally much wider, although the color is pretty close. I bet is a red colored yote. I did see a red wolf dead on the side of the road a few weeks ago in Tennesee. It was bigger than a large german shepherd.


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## kbhunter (Feb 23, 2010)

redneck_billcollector said:


> I have trapped coyotes out west and in SOWEGA, I have said this before, the "coyotes" we have here ain't the same animal that is out west.  Coyotes are a relatively new animal in this part of the country, I can remember when they first started showing up.  I have trapped a number of them in my area that had 20 to 30 or more pounds on them than the biggest one I ever got out west.  They haven't evolved to be so different than their western brothers and sisters in such a short time.
> 
> I live about 4 or 5 miles from Chehaw Park in Albany  and go out there quite often, they have a breeding pair of red wolves from that federal program, I can not tell much difference from them and most of our local coyotes.  The red wolf is a relatively new beast according to genetic studies and most now believe they are the result of continued interbreeding with timber wolves and coyotes.
> 
> When coyotes started showing up in Georgia it was first along the flint river and chattahoochee river drainages, well as we all know they flow into the apalachicola drainage, which back in the 70s (same time the yotes started showing up) was probably the wildest and least populated part of florida that would be from the big bend all the way to the alabama line, on the gulf.  The last known wild population of the red wolf was on the gulf over on the texas and louisianna border and it is pretty wild from that area over to the big bend, at least back in the 70s.  I have not seen any genetic studies on our "brush wolves" as I call them, I would love to see some though, I would be willing to bet that the red wolf aint in as bad a shape as the feds say they are, I would be willing to bet that they are as common as coyotes in SOWEGA.  With all that being said, I would bet the varmit in your pic is probably a canine with some wolf genes in it....



The Red Wolf re-introduction program in the Great Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennesee did not succeed and was terminated a few years ago. There are still a few around and it wouldn't shock me to see them into parts of North Ga. But I haven't heard of them in South West GA. That is interesting info, I am going to research that more.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jan 4, 2012)

I know this is an older thread, but there has been a good bit of genetic research done on eastern and southeastern coyotes now.  They all contain wolf genetic material unlike western coyotes.  The eastern coyote is not the same coyote of the west, in size, skull shape, color variations and genetic make-up.  Black coyotes are pretty much a southeastern variation (at least according to a number of the studies I have read) with the genetic material gained from both red wolves and dogs (very small amount of dogs).  William Batram wrote that in colonial times black coloration was not uncommon amongst red wolves (so much so that C. nigra was considered for their scientific name at one time), out west you just don't see it like you do here.  We do know that the coyote in Georgia moved to the east via a southern route passing through the last areas that there was a verifiable hold out red wolf population. (east texas and southern louisiana).  We also know the the coyotes first showed up in Ga. in the south western part of the state which means they got here via a migration route in the gulf coastal plain (they started showing up on my SOWEGA trap line in the mid 70s, if I recall correctly around 76 or 77 at the latest).  Most georgians only have had experiences with coyotes in the southeast, I have trapped them out west and have had dead ones from out there and here at the same time and placed them side by side, the sowega yotes are much more robust, have wider skulls, broader snouts and have a wider range of coloration.  There are many example of 40 + lb upwards to 50lbs or more eastern and southeastern yotes.  I personally never trapped one out west in either the rockie mountain states or the southwest (west texas and new mexico) that came anywhere near those sizes.  

When they first showed up in Ga. their size confounded most folks and almost everyone called them coy-dogs, and thought they were all dog coyote hybrids to explain their larger size and broader range of coloration, well recent genetic studies published in the last half year show that the coy-dog speculation was just that, speculation, C. familiaris (domestic dog) d.n.a. is very sparse in the eastern and southern coyote population, but wolf d.n.a. is present to a significant degree.  This d.n.a. is not present in the coyote populations in their pre-migration range (out west).  The eastern population of native canine species all contain a mixture of graywolf and coyote d.n.a. (red wolf, great lake wolf and the algonquin wolf ). We all know that red wolves and coyotes readily inter breed, heck, red wolf d.n.a. is almost 75% coyote whereas the present population of southern and eastern coyotes ranges between 80% to almost 90% with wolf d.n.a. making up the remaining contribution, ironically the southern coyote appears to have a little bit more wolf d.n.a. than the north eastern population, (Ohio and Virginia were the states that had the highest domestic dog d.n.a. in their population and it is still nominal) which has been all in the news since  19 year Taylor Mitchell was killed by a couple last year in Nova Scotia, Nat. Geo. Wild did a show about it this week, along with another show about the eastern coyote stating the proper name should be coy-wolf.  I believe, and most of the new scientific data shows that the coyote in Ga. is a red wolf/gray wolf(via the red wolf side)/coyote mix, hence their distinct difference from western coyotes.

Dogs, coyotes and wolves do not readily breed amongst themselves if there are mates of their own species available for breeding, natural hybirdization only occurs when one of the populations is in stress.  The m.d.n.a. tends to show female coyotes got bred by wolves more so than female wolves getting bred by coyotes.  The only time coyotes will breed with dogs is when there are no suitable mate for the coyote...if there is a healthy population of coyotes, they will not breed with dogs, the normally will try to kill the dog, just like wolves with coyotes when there is a healthy wolf population.  Larger dogs will try to kill coyotes also...You will not come across the dog/coyote cross in GA as has been suggested about the animal that is the subject of this thread.  The highest amount of dog d.n.a. found in any of the hundreds of test animals was in the single digit percentile meaning that any cross breeding took place many generations ago.  The studies also show that the inner breeding only took place on the edge of the natural ranges and when healthy populations existed it did not occur at all. Hence the wolf d.n.a. in coyotes only in places where they exist outside of their natural range.  The main hypothosis now is that predator control created the coy-wolf by stressing the wolf populations and creating a vacuum that the coyote was able to fill.


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## chevyman10709 (Jan 4, 2012)

Nice pics...if u need help killin any yotes let me know


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## gwaters (Jan 5, 2012)

yote.


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## georgia resident (Jan 11, 2012)

I know this is an old post but wolves aren't in the south far down as they go is north of the carolinas an kentucky they did try introduce some in n carolina i believe but as far as they know they didnt make it.


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 11, 2012)

georgia resident said:


> I know this is an old post but wolves aren't in the south far down as they go is north of the carolinas an kentucky they did try introduce some in n carolina i believe but as far as they know they didnt make it.



There are free-roaming populations of red wolves right now in eastern NC (Alligator River Wildlife Refuge, over a hundred wolves,) and SC (Bull Island.) Red wolves were historically present in the whole southeast, and timber (gray) wolves were in the upper part of the region. We apparantly had both here in the southern Appalachians. The last _confirmed _timber wolf in my county was klilled in the 1920s.


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## TBass (Jan 14, 2012)

tankeryanker said:


> i live in the central part of north carolina but they introduced red wolves into the eastern part of the state years ago........looks like a red wolf to me, they get big, yotes round these parts rarely hit 50 lbs.......if you let some of these boys convince you its a yote and you decided to pop him, better keep it under your hat and not be posting him laying there dead with a thread saying look at this huge coyote.......theyre protected, but i wouldnt wanna walk outta the woods with that thing running around either........just saying........



I agree!!!  I am all about knowing what I have in my sights before I squeeze that trigger.  I'd hate to be that guy who randomly fired into the bushes because "something is moving" and find out it was some kind of endangered or extinct critter, or worse a guy who fell asleep while turkey hunting that was just waking up.  Any breed of wolf is known to be as aggressive as any mountain lion when they are thinking with their empty stomach.  Coyotes tend to be too flighty to stick around and attack, but not a wolf.  If he has you spotted and you lose sight of him, you better certainly be looking over your shoulder.  I'd hate to find out the hard way which one it is.  Just sayin'....

Where I grew up, the wildlife department is trained to tell people, "Nah!  Those don't exist anywhere in our state, but they are in ALL of the border states."  Then whenever one is hit back a car or discovered dead the story changes to, "They aren't native here, nor do they live here.  This must have just been one passing through.  Their territory can cover 200-300 miles on average."  But now trail cameras are screwing up their arguments because all these animals are popping up all over.  Right now their only argument is "photoshop".  If you happen to pull a trigger on whatever the animal may be, then they more or less screw your life up for shooting an animal that is not legal for taking.  It's ridiculous.


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## SpurHuntinHillbilly (Jan 14, 2012)

Having trapped and shot yotes my whole life I say a big male yote.  His head is too narrow and his snout is WAY too narrow.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 15, 2012)

TBass said:


> I agree!!!  I am all about knowing what I have in my sights before I squeeze that trigger.  I'd hate to be that guy who randomly fired into the bushes because "something is moving" and find out it was some kind of endangered or extinct critter, or worse a guy who fell asleep while turkey hunting that was just waking up.  Any breed of wolf is known to be as aggressive as any mountain lion when they are thinking with their empty stomach.  Coyotes tend to be too flighty to stick around and attack, but not a wolf.  If he has you spotted and you lose sight of him, you better certainly be looking over your shoulder.  I'd hate to find out the hard way which one it is.  Just sayin'....
> 
> Where I grew up, the wildlife department is trained to tell people, "Nah!  Those don't exist anywhere in our state, but they are in ALL of the border states."  Then whenever one is hit back a car or discovered dead the story changes to, "They aren't native here, nor do they live here.  This must have just been one passing through.  Their territory can cover 200-300 miles on average."  But now trail cameras are screwing up their arguments because all these animals are popping up all over.  Right now their only argument is "photoshop".  If you happen to pull a trigger on whatever the animal may be, then they more or less screw your life up for shooting an animal that is not legal for taking.  It's ridiculous.





How many wolf attacks have been made on people in North America?


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## Maduro on Point (Feb 6, 2012)

looks like a yote to me.. nice buck though


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## Burdman16 (Feb 9, 2012)

I think everyone is overthinking this. It's a coyote...plain and simple. The important thing here is what you've got in that mineral site...I'm going to use that brown sugar recipe starting this March!


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## NCHillbilly (Feb 9, 2012)

Well, scientific studies consistantly show that most eastern coyotes have a percentage of wolf DNA, so my answer is both. The eastern yote is a totally different critter from the western one.


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