# Dog  food



## lab man (Dec 22, 2011)

Hey coon hunters what do yall think about showtime dog food bleu bag and orange bag thinking about changing to it blackgold is like buying gold these days. Let me know if you have tried it and what kind of results you had thanks......


----------



## redman2006 (Dec 23, 2011)

I am not a coon hunter, but a Lab hunter.  I feed my own dog Pro Plan by Purina.  Lots of good foods out there, Showtime is not one of them.  

I can get you some links to food sites and explanations on what they are allowed to get away with if you would like.  There is a reason foods are cheaper....CHEAP, not inexpensive.  You get what you pay for up to a point with food.  Boutique/niche foods are the exception.  There are lots of them that are pricey and terrible.  You are paying for digestibility and safety with the good foods.  The cheap stuff ends up on the ground out the other end.  

I feed 1/2 the volume/weight with a premium food like Pro Plan, so the cost nets out and it is better nutrition so your dogs will run longer.  Does not have to be Pro Plan, there are other great foods out there.

Just my 2 cents FWIW


----------



## JuliaH (Dec 23, 2011)

Great post!!  This should be important to anyone with dogs, especially dogs that work such as our hunting dogs!!  I especially like 





> There is a reason foods are cheaper....CHEAP, not inexpensive. You get what you pay for up to a point with food. Boutique/niche foods are the exception. There are lots of them that are pricey and terrible.


 
You definitely get out of a dog in performing ability and health what you put into it in care and GOOD food... again, not necessarily Pro Plan, but a good quality food. 

Julia



redman2006 said:


> I am not a coon hunter, but a Lab hunter. I feed my own dog Pro Plan by Purina. Lots of good foods out there, Showtime is not one of them.
> 
> I can get you some links to food sites and explanations on what they are allowed to get away with if you would like. There is a reason foods are cheaper....CHEAP, not inexpensive. You get what you pay for up to a point with food. Boutique/niche foods are the exception. There are lots of them that are pricey and terrible. You are paying for digestibility and safety with the good foods. The cheap stuff ends up on the ground out the other end.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jody Hawk (Dec 24, 2011)

I can't afford to feed six beagles dog food that runs $40 a bag. This is the best dog food I've found yet for the money, Faithway Pride and Pleasure. It's comparable to Black Gold but I get it for $19.50 a bag. My dogs do great on it and they are as fat and healthy as they were when I was feeding Black Gold. The red bag is High Pro but they were out of it when I bought it last so I got the black bag.


----------



## lab man (Dec 24, 2011)

*Dog food*

Good point redman2006. Yall dog hunters keep it coming if you have anything on a good dog food........


----------



## 3.5 YR-OLD BAMBI (Dec 24, 2011)

Kirkland dog food at costco,  It is affordable and is a great food. We don't live close to one but drive up once a month and buy it by the truck load. What we buy is the chicken formula and in the maroon bag


----------



## maker4life (Dec 25, 2011)

I feed FRM Gold Select . $23 a bag and every eleventh one is free . Forty lbs a week and have always been happy with it .


----------



## plottman25 (Dec 25, 2011)

I feed the showtime 24 20.  Ive never had any problems with it.  And if yall think showtime is cheap, I would hate to see what yall think is expensive. It keeps my dogs healthy and makes the kennel easy to clean out.  I tried Purina, but i got tired of cleanin cow patties out of my dog lot.


----------



## redman2006 (Dec 26, 2011)

Protein is the most expensive thing to put in a food.  When you see "hi Pro" for a low price, what will make up the protien?  What protien source can you buy that is less than $0.50 a lb?

I can tell you, nothing good.  Urea and feathermeal are often used, but are not digestible by mongastric animals.  It is cheap and CHEMICALLY it matches the side of the bag.  That is all a food company has to do-match the CHEMICAL ANALYSIS on the side of the bag for the whole run.

Dog food companies are allowed to make a single bag on the front of a run with the ingredients listed, change to the least cost formula for the majority of the run, then switch back at the end of the run.  This is a VERY common practice with cheap foods.

When looking for a good food, at the BARE minimum, look for one with an AAFCO statement on the bag that says FEED trial, not just formulated to meet AAFCO guidelines.  This ensures that they have at least feed the food for a give time to prove animals can use it and digest it without ill effects.

Also, look for foods that are life stage appropriate.  When it says formulated for all life stages, it means for the highest requirements. So you are feeding apuppy food.  This can lead to things like obesity, bladder stones, and all sorts of other issues.

Again, just my .02.  Don't skimp on food.  Garbage in garbage out applies to more than computers.


----------



## JuliaH (Dec 26, 2011)

Well said Redman... I believe we get out what we put in nutritionally as well as in the right training. 

The PP Performance is an all life stages food, and I do take my dogs off it as seniors to a lower protein level. However my working dogs, pups and nursing mothers do wonderfully on it and I don't have skinny females when done with even a big litter of babies, and my working dogs have all the energy they need to do their job well 

Julia



redman2006 said:


> Protein is the most expensive thing to put in a food. When you see "hi Pro" for a low price, what will make up the protien? What protien source can you buy that is less than $0.50 a lb?
> 
> I can tell you, nothing good. Urea and feathermeal are often used, but are not digestible by mongastric animals. It is cheap and CHEMICALLY it matches the side of the bag. That is all a food company has to do-match the CHEMICAL ANALYSIS on the side of the bag for the whole run.
> 
> ...


----------



## DUhollywood1 (Dec 26, 2011)

Eukanuba 30/20


----------



## redman2006 (Dec 27, 2011)

You are correct, working dogs and nursing females (this site does not like the correct name I see) need a much higher level of nutrition than the dog that hits the field two or three times a season.  Puppy food/growth formula is correct for nursing females but the Ca and P balance may or may not be best for even the hardest workers as adults.

If I could convince my clients to feed good food in an appropriate amount(keep the weight where it belongs), prevent external and internal parasites, vaccinate according to exposure risks with good vaccines, and exercise the dogs regularly, I would lose about 1/2 my business, and I would be happy if it were for that reason.  An ounce of prevention.....  

Nutritional problems don't show up for years in some cases.  By then it is too late to reverse the process in many instances.  The nutritional component for hip dysplasia for example....

I am not pushing one food, just good food.


----------



## JuliaH (Dec 27, 2011)

What do you feed?  I am not unhappy with what I feed, but am curious as to other brands that might be good nutritionally.... have tried a few others including Science Diet (which I hated) but never have been happy with the results. Cost is not as much a factor as healthy dogs, but any of us with 3+ dogs are interested in the cost factor as well 

These dog food threads get real crazy sometimes...lol, but it should be a good subject for breeders, hunters, and everyone with active working dogs 

I know I don't like some of the "meal" products as first ingredients but I am not sure I am as well educated on that as I would like to be. I have even tried some of the "Taste of the Wild" sort of foods but the dogs tummies reacted to those. PPP has corn, but it has not reacted badly with my animals... 

Julia





redman2006 said:


> You are correct, working dogs and nursing females (this site does not like the correct name I see) need a much higher level of nutrition than the dog that hits the field two or three times a season. Puppy food/growth formula is correct for nursing females but the Ca and P balance may or may not be best for even the hardest workers as adults.
> 
> If I could convince my clients to feed good food in an appropriate amount(keep the weight where it belongs), prevent external and internal parasites, vaccinate according to exposure risks with good vaccines, and exercise the dogs regularly, I would lose about 1/2 my business, and I would be happy if it were for that reason. An ounce of prevention.....
> 
> ...


----------



## redman2006 (Dec 27, 2011)

I personally feed the old Pro Plan by Purina Chicken and Rice formula (Purina ONE in the Grocery is almost as good).  Not the shredded variety.  I have been very happy.  Just ancedotal evidence, but all my labs have lived beyond 15 years.  

Corn, unless they are intollerant of it, or any other grain for that matter, is not an issue.  Just like us, most people have no need to be gluten free, but it is a fad that people are starting to chase anyway.  I do like Rice better in my animal food.  I think it digests better than Wheat or Corn, but I have no scientific evidence to back that up.  I do have evidence to show it is less allergenic than either of the others though.

This is one area that people are very brand loyal, sometimes wrongly so.  I have a list I suggest, but any high quality food is ok by me.  

Meal is not an issue if it is good quality nor is by-product an issue if it is good stuff.  Again, you get what you pay for.  Meal just means it has had the moisture removed and been ground up.  By-products are just parts that we do not eat in the US.  Things like livers and gizzards, kidneys etc.  

Think about your barn cat or a wild dog.  what do they eat when they make a kill?  The LAST thing they eat is the muscle.  it is actually very low in nutrition compared to organ meats.  have you heard of "rabbit starvation" ?  It was something oldtimers got because they tried to survive a winter off of rabbit muscle alone.  The nutrients are not in the muscle as much as we would like to believe.  Of course that does not mean I  want liver over steak on my plate! 

So by-product is just what we in the us find distasteful, not a bad source of nutrition.  It just has to be digestible.  There is a continum of digestibility with egg protein being some of the easiest clear down to stuff that is not at all digestible like feathers, hair and hooves, but it is still very high in protien.  You can literally make a chemically appropriate diet out of shoe leather, motor oil, and a few other odd ingredients.  Google it and it will tell you all about it.  It won't be digestible, but it would meet the AAFCO standards chemically.

Folks need to research the laws surrounding pet food.  They will be shocked at what can occur.  That is why I stick with a few known brands that I trust day in and day out.  that is why I insist on a minimum of an AAFCO FEEDING statement and not a formulation statement.  All the definitions are laid out as well with very strict legal definitions in most cases.  All natural, holistic and homeopathic have no legal defintion in dog food and can mean whatever the manufacturer decides it means.

Anyway, I am off my soapbox.  That was probably a lot more than anyone wants to know.


----------



## JuliaH (Dec 27, 2011)

LOL... don't let that soapbox get too far away!! 

You have just confirmed what I thought I knew but was not completely sure of (my vet promotes SD and has wanted me and my dogs on it, but I don't like it, though the special diets for veterinary problems are good)... I called Purina once and tried to get to the science dept where they formulate the food. I did get a very knowledgeable rep further up the line from the phone answering ladies and gents. The reason for my call was to try to figure out the difference in what I was feeding (all life stages performance) and what the Science Diet folks were telling me. 

I got a good lesson in AAFCO standards and I look for the feeding standards. I looked up the AAFCO stuff online too, to confirm that conversation. 

The Science Diet folks came out with an all-life stages feed only about a year after these conversations... of course after the rep told me that it was much more important to feed puppy food, then adult, then senior, etc. I sorta discounted them even more after that 

But the most important thing the SD rep helped me with is doing my research to find out WHY I should stay with a good food rather than go cheaper. It does mean I have to have a couple less dogs so I can afford to feed them but that's okay too. 

The reason I started on PPP was because it said Performance on it. The reason I have stayed with it is all the checking on it that I have done thanks to the SD rep, and the fact that my trainer uses it exclusively for the bird dogs in training and in competition and they always look and perform great!

Julia


----------



## Beagler282 (Dec 27, 2011)

lab man said:


> Hey coon hunters what do yall think about showtime dog food bleu bag and orange bag thinking about changing to it blackgold is like buying gold these days. Let me know if you have tried it and what kind of results you had thanks......



If you have enjoyed the Black Gold then you will be very happy with the Faithway Pride and Pleasure 24/20 feed.You won't notice that you even changed feed.Fed Black Gold for 9 yrs and they hit my spending limit also.Switched to the Pride and Pleasure and wouldn't go back to BG if they lowered their prices.


----------



## tree daddy 7 (Dec 30, 2011)

Daimond High Energy  works good for my dogs.


----------



## lab man (Dec 30, 2011)

Been feeding FRM gold 30/20 for a week and loving it and its only 20 bucks a bag, and no big mess in the kennel. If yall have tried this feed let me know what the results were.


----------



## maker4life (Dec 31, 2011)

lab man said:


> Been feeding FRM gold 30/20 for a week and loving it and its only 20 bucks a bag, and no big mess in the kennel. If yall have tried this feed let me know what the results were.



I've been feeding the 27/18 for years and am very pleased. I used to feed Purina and have had as good as results at half the price .


----------



## gnarlyone (Dec 31, 2011)

*food*

Been feeding dogs 30 years...just about tried it all...the 24/20 is some of the best feed ive ever fed.


----------



## huntchesies (Jan 4, 2012)

personally i will be sticking to black gold


----------



## 12mcrebel (Jan 5, 2012)

Jody Hawk said:


> I can't afford to feed six beagles dog food that runs $40 a bag. This is the best dog food I've found yet for the money, Faithway Pride and Pleasure. It's comparable to Black Gold but I get it for $19.50 a bag. My dogs do great on it and they are as fat and healthy as they were when I was feeding Black Gold. The red bag is High Pro but they were out of it when I bought it last so I got the black bag.



where did you find this feed?


----------



## DukTruk (Jan 6, 2012)

Read the ingredients on the bag.  The first ingredient listed is somewhere between 45 and 60 percent of the makeup of the food.  AT THE BARE MINIMUM - if its not a meat product listed (or meat meal), keep looking.  If you feed a meat based food, you will feed half the amount of food that you would a corn based food.

We feed as many as 45 large dogs a day.  There is NO WAY I would feed any of them a food that was $ 19.50 a bag.  I have not seen the ingredients, but I can almost guarantee that the primary ingredient is not meat.


----------



## GA DAWG (Jan 6, 2012)

When the feed makes them start treeing more game or pointing more birds or retrieving more ducks or chasing rabbits faster. Yall let me know. I'll feed it. This feed crap nowdays is bull! Has most folks brainwashed.


----------



## DukTruk (Jan 6, 2012)

I know you won't believe this, but all those things can be accomplished by switching to a good quality food.  They can run longer, run faster, and recover much quicker if their diet is correct.


----------



## GA DAWG (Jan 6, 2012)

Thats what they say aint it. How did we ever feed a hound before this new fangled food hit? How did we tree any? How did the old dogs hunt till they were 15?


----------



## Buzz (Jan 6, 2012)

Some good info if you want to look.  There are truly some terrible foods out there.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

I feed mine Orijen 80/20.    It's expensive but he eats a lot less of it and makes a lot less of a mess.  Tried a bunch of others but this one really works for him.


----------



## JuliaH (Jan 6, 2012)

Some folks think it is cheapest cost, some most expensive and plenty in between. One thing that sure helps is to be sure what you are feeding is something that will give your dogs long useful lives. There are problems with feeds out there, and I absolutely agree with a meat based food for dogs. 

Julia


----------



## jwb72 (Jan 6, 2012)

GA DAWG said:


> Thats what they say aint it. How did we ever feed a hound before this new fangled food hit? How did we tree any? How did the old dogs hunt till they were 15?



I don't think they're saying the new stuff is miracle food, but it seems nowadays there are a lot more food companies than there used to be and some are just filling it with crap to make a buck. With more choices you just have to be more careful I think is what most are trying to say.


----------



## redman2006 (Jan 6, 2012)

DukTruk said:


> I know you won't believe this, but all those things can be accomplished by switching to a good quality food.  They can run longer, run faster, and recover much quicker if their diet is correct.




Yes!  It is like feeding a competitive athlete McDonalds and expecting full performance.  They can get by and do ok for a while, but they will do better, longer with better food.


----------



## GA DAWG (Jan 6, 2012)

jwb72 said:


> I don't think they're saying the new stuff is miracle food, but it seems nowadays there are a lot more food companies than there used to be and some are just filling it with crap to make a buck. With more choices you just have to be more careful I think is what most are trying to say.


Actually. Most of the new fangled feed feeders. Try and force their high dollar stuff down our throats.  Just kinda like this thread. It was about Showtime dog feed Not what we shouldn't be feeding.


----------



## chesterahl (Mar 3, 2012)

i live in alma ga where showtime is made i have been feeding it for 9 years and never had a problem with it but all i feed is 27/20 the blue bag


----------



## AlexaM (Nov 27, 2018)

I agree that you get what you pay for. Food can be cheap but it will also lack nutrients. The most important are proteins, there should be about 22%. But minerals and vitamins are impotant too. You should count the right ratio yourself. Read more here 
Is not just about what brand to buy. It's about your dog's weight, size, activity, etc.


----------

