# More fees to use wmas???????



## capt stan (May 6, 2010)

This is copied from the DNR web site:

The Georgia Department of Natural Resources’ Wildlife Resources Division is considering changes relating to the marketing of recreational opportunities on lands owned and managed by the Department. These changes may include: charging fees at DNR-managed properties and facilities, classification of DNR-managed properties, and diversifying recreational opportunities on DNR-managed properties.  The Department has scheduled four (4) public meetings across the state to provide the public an opportunity to offer input on these changes for consideration. Those interested are encouraged to bring these meetings to the attention of others that also may be interested in participating.



Public meetings have been scheduled on the following dates at the specified times and locations:



Date Time Location 
May 17, 2010 7 p.m. Pickens County Chamber of Commerce, 500 Stegall Drive, Jasper 
May 18, 2010 7 p.m. Macon State College, 100 College Station Drive, Professional Sciences Building, Room 211 A-B, Macon 
May 19, 2010 7 p.m. Laura S. Walker State Park, 5653 Laura Walker Road in Shelter #1, Waycross 
May 20, 2010 7 p.m. Gwinnett County Parks & Recreation, Shorty Howell Park, 2750 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth 




Any participant at a meeting may present data, make a statement or comment, or offer a viewpoint or argument, either orally or in writing. Statements should be concise to permit everyone an opportunity to speak. Participants must register upon arrival and notify the registering official of their intent to give a statement. Those unable to attend a meeting may submit comments electronically to john.bowers@dnr.state.ga.us or in writing by May 28. Written statements should be mailed to:



Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources Division, Game Management Section, Attn: John W. Bowers, 2070 U.S. Highway 278, SE, Social Circle, Georgia 30025.



These meeting sites are accessible to people with physical disabilities. Requests for sign language interpretation or other auxiliary aids should be directed to John W. Bowers at (770) 918-6404 no later than May 7.



For more information on the scheduled public meetings, visit the Parks, Recreation and Historic Sites Division Web site at www.gastateparks.org, Wildlife Resources Division website at www.georgiawildlife.com, or contact Eric VanDeGenachte at (404) 323-7333.



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## JBowers (May 9, 2010)

Development of a Lands Classification System for DNR Lands

The Department of Natural Resources wishes to receive public input on a proposal to re-classify, i.e. re-name, lands we manage. Currently, properties are known by several different names including Wildlife Management Areas (WMA), Public Fishing Areas (PFA), Natural Areas (NA), Outdoor Recreation Areas (ORA), State Historic Parks, State Parks, State Historic Sites and others). The diversity of names and complex classification currently used for DNR properties likely confuses people and may give the impression that certain lands are not available for many allowed uses. This proposal bundles all WRD-properties into a single name (to be selected through this public input process). It also reduces and simplifies the variety of names used in the State park system. A simplified classification system will improve public understanding, encourage public visitation, and facilitate DNR’s marketing efforts.

Our proposal, developed with the assistance of a public steering committee, is that WRD-managed properties will be reduced to one of the following names:

State Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Area

Conservation Recreation Area

Outdoor Recreation Area

Wildlife Management Area (no change)

Public Fishing Area (no change)


The names of “State Parks” and “State Historic Sites” will remain unchanged in the State park system.



*Charging a Fee for Recreational Users on WRD-Managed Lands*

Currently, people hunting and fishing on WRD-managed properties pay a fee. People are not charged a fee for using WRD-managed lands for other purposes (e.g., mountain biking, bird watching, photography, and other recreation). To provide a more equitable and financially sustainable system, the Department is seeking public input on a proposal to charge a fee for the use of designated areas on WRD-managed properties. Designated areas may include: shooting ranges, special use trails, campsites, defined recreational zones and, in some cases, may include an entire property.

It is important to note that anyone possessing a valid WMA license will not be subject to the proposed fee. Existing license and fee systems for WMA licenses will not be affected. 

We propose that passes could be purchased by: 1) internet, 2) telephone, or 3) existing hunting and fishing license vendors. Depending on sales channel used, a transaction fee of $2.75 to $4.00 may apply.

DNR also seeks input relative to whether passes should be issued on a “per vehicle” basis or a “per person” basis. “Option 1” would issue passes per vehicle at a cost of $5 for a 3-day pass or $19 for an annual pass (transaction fees not included). Option 2” would issue passes per person at a cost of $3 for 3-day pass or $12 multi-day or annual pass (transaction fees not included).


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## Rich Kaminski (May 9, 2010)

*Charge everyone a fee*

Thats the only fair way is to charge everyone the same fee now if they are ruding horses or ATV's, etc - then I think that they (we - me too) should be charged an additioal fee.


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## Ihunt (May 10, 2010)

This is something we should support.Why should hunters and fishermen foot the whole bill?


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## Marlin_444 (May 10, 2010)

Sounds like leveling the playing field, everyone pays their share not just sportsman... 

See you in the woods...

Ron


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## LanceColeman (May 10, 2010)

That would actually be a big thing up here. There's more hikers and trail bikers during spring and summer than there are sportsmans during the hunting season on our WMAs.


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## Nugefan (May 10, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> That would actually be a big thing up here. There's more hikers and trail bikers during spring and summer than there are sportsmans during the hunting season on our WMAs.



yep  , your right ....


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## Nicodemus (May 10, 2010)

If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.


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## Ruger#3 (May 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.



I like the idea of shared responsibility to pay for privilidges.

But, I think Nic on to something.

"No portable deer stands within 200 yds of a riding trail."

"No activity within 500 yards of a nesting yellow throated double warbler, their sensitive ya know."

"Spring turkey hunt canceled due to mountain bike championship."

Remember money talks, larger events drawing more revenue could become the preference.


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## win280 (May 10, 2010)

You can charge all the fees you want to. The money goes into the general fund,WRD would only receive a very small portion of the fees collected and we as sportsmen would have less of a voice in WMA management.JMO


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## PWalls (May 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.



Yep.

All of you saying "make everyone pay" need to look at the ramifications. He who foots the bill for something normally has the most say-so in the use of that something.

I assure you that bird watchers and bike riders and horse riders and hikers will outnumber us. And, it sure is nice and cool during October/November and the leaves are changing during that time as well. Make them pay to do that stuff and they may get us "restricted" on how and when we can use land that our license fees purchased.


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## DYI hunting (May 10, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.



Never really thought about that, that is a scary idea and quite possibly correct especially in today's society.


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## bfriendly (May 10, 2010)

> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.





> I like the idea of shared responsibility to pay for privilidges.
> 
> But, I think Nic on to something.
> 
> ...






> Yep.
> 
> All of you saying "make everyone pay" need to look at the ramifications. He who foots the bill for something normally has the most say-so in the use of that something.
> 
> I assure you that bird watchers and bike riders and horse riders and hikers will outnumber us. And, it sure is nice and cool during October/November and the leaves are changing during that time as well. Make them pay to do that stuff and they may get us "restricted" on how and when we can use land that our license fees purchased.



I wondered how many posts til these came through..........this debate has been had and there is simply a strong difference of respectable opinions.

I do agree that the Horse Riders, Mtn Bikers and Hikers having a say may "seem" like a negative to us Hunters, but the fact is, they use the facilities NOW. They will still be using them tomorrow. When Hunting Seasons are Closed, they(Not us-except the select few that do go during the off season) will still be using them, maybe MORE since some of them prolly wont go when WE are there with loaded guns, walking through the woods.............surely there are at least a few of those guys/gals.

Now, if I read the letter correctly, its says "Those Interested"(Does NOT say HUNTERS) are encouraged to attend the meeting and let others know about it, blah blah blah.

Sounds to me like they already have a say, No?

MAKE EM ALL PAY!  Maybe, just maybe, since we are all equal users, and since Hunters are NOT allowed to Hunt during NON hunting time of the year(Sure we can scout), Maybe we can limit a few weeks when Mtn Bikers, etc are allowed to be out there with their tool of the trade; bikes, horses, etc..Would it not be cool to have NO Bikers during the first week of Deer and Turkey season etc?

We ALL Have a SAY, we should ALL PAY!

Anyway, this is just My .02


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## Jim P (May 10, 2010)

At first I thought it was a good idea, and I think everyone should pay , but when I saw what Nic and Ruger posted I started to think that it is just a stepping stone to do away with hunting etc. in the future.


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## Marlin_444 (May 11, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.



Maybe so...  The alternative is to raise the costs for Hunters?  Or to call off hunts for lack of funding?  Why should Non-Hunters get a free ride?  What is the alternative?


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## JWilson (May 11, 2010)

I say make them all pay there are some WMA 's that dont allow bikers or people on horses until a set time of day.


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## gravedigger83 (May 11, 2010)

Let's all watch the Camo Coalition and all their tree hugging leaders come out against this........

This is a great idea....

Hikers, Riders etc already have their time and nothing will change except they will have to pay just like us hunters.

Hunting is not going to be outlawed just because we now charge everyone to use the property


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 11, 2010)

gravedigger83 said:


> Let's all watch the Camo Coalition and all their tree hugging leaders come out against this........
> 
> This is a great idea....
> 
> ...



That's pretty funny.

Steve Burch was the first one I heard espouse the idea that charging non-hunters to use WMA's was a bad idea.

It is one of the things I have tended to agree with him on.

That said, this may be a new day. The state is basically bankrupt and it is time to explore all options.

Members here at Woody's have been expressing the desire that DNR look into charging non-hunters for as long as this board has been going with widely mixed points of view.

I think the overall opinion has been, at the end of each discussion, that we would rather be able to point to the WMA's and show other Georgian's what the Sportsmen & women have provided for them.


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## gravedigger83 (May 11, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> That's pretty funny.
> 
> Steve Burch was the first one I heard espouse the idea that charging non-hunters to use WMA's was a bad idea.
> 
> ...



Let's see where the Camo Coalition and it's parent the GWF come out in this.

I would dare say that they will be against charging their tree hugging members for the use of anything and will probably recommend us common folk ( Hunters and Fisherman ) pay more for the opportunity to provide everyone with land to use.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 11, 2010)

gravedigger83 said:


> Let's see where the Camo Coalition and it's parent the GWF come out in this.
> 
> I would dare say that they will be against charging their tree hugging members for the use of anything and will probably recommend us common folk ( Hunters and Fisherman ) pay more for the opportunity to provide everyone with land to use.



You do realize that when I said 'funny' I meant 'weird as a football bat', right?

You may be surprised how many hunters and fishermen have close friends and family that are not hunters or fishermen who still love nature and doing things outdoors. The huge majority of those folks have no problem with, and in fact, encourage others to hunt and fish.

I have no idea if Camo will send out an alert regarding this and if they did, whether or not it would 'pro' or 'con' or just a notice that we have been offered an opportunity to have our voices heard.

I am certain that the tens of thousands of Sportsmen and women who are members of CamoCoalition appreciate your silly, mindless attack against them.

Well done.


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## Nicodemus (May 11, 2010)

Marlin_444 said:


> Maybe so...  The alternative is to raise the costs for Hunters?  Or to call off hunts for lack of funding?  Why should Non-Hunters get a free ride?  What is the alternative?





The alternative is to leave it as is. I don`t know which WMAs are leased from other entities, but those that are already owned by the state, what type further fundin` is needed? Other than the plantin` of food plots, for those who know no other way to hunt.

In this case, I prefer the devil I know, over the devil I don`t know.


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## Coastie (May 11, 2010)

Anybody wondering how many folks from Big Canoe, Bent Tree and the Mountain Stewards will be at the meeting in Jasper? They kind of own two sides of the Wildcat tract of Dawson Forest and most of them are rabid anti hunters. They would love to see the Wildcat tract turned into a private park for their use only and access to hunters denied.  This is merely step one in getting the hunters out for good.


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## gravedigger83 (May 11, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> You do realize that when I said 'funny' I meant 'weird as a football bat', right?
> 
> You may be surprised how many hunters and fishermen have close friends and family that are not hunters or fishermen who still love nature and doing things outdoors. The huge majority of those folks have no problem with, and in fact, encourage others to hunt and fish.
> 
> ...



I know anything that disagrees with the all mighty jeff's point of view must be mindless and silly...

Give me a break have you disagreed with anything your beloved CC has come out for yet or are you still waiting for them to say you can.


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## Mechanicaldawg (May 11, 2010)

gravedigger83 said:


> I know anything that disagrees with the all mighty jeff's point of view must be mindless and silly...
> 
> Give me a break have you disagreed with anything your beloved CC has come out for yet or are you still waiting for them to say you can.



You've got a surprise heading your way.


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## gravedigger83 (May 11, 2010)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> You've got a surprise heading your way.



Hot diggitty dog

 Can't wait


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## Marlin_444 (May 12, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> The alternative is to leave it as is. I don`t know which WMAs are leased from other entities, but those that are already owned by the state, what type further fundin` is needed? Other than the plantin` of food plots, for those who know no other way to hunt.
> 
> In this case, I prefer the devil I know, over the devil I don`t know.



Don't get me wrong here I am with you, but much like many other things  in "Modern Society" we are either part of the change or the part that get's changed. 

My point is keep your friends close and your enemies closer, those who have a say (I do not since I live out of  the Great State of Georgia but I love the North Georgia Mountains) MUST participate in the process to either maintain the "status quo" or shape it into what you want it to be inside "the system" or work to change the system. 

See you in the woods... 

Ron


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## Nicodemus (May 12, 2010)

Marlin_444 said:


> Don't get me wrong here I am with you, but much like many other things  in "Modern Society" we are either part of the change or the part that get's changed.
> 
> My point is keep your friends close and your enemies closer, those who have a say (I do not since I live out of  the Great State of Georgia but I love the North Georgia Mountains) MUST participate in the process to either maintain the "status quo" or shape it into what you want it to be inside "the system" or work to change the system.
> 
> ...





You lost me completely here. I have no idea what you`re sayin`.   

But, it ain`t broke, so it don`t need fixin`. Of course, I can only speak of the WMAs I`m familiar with, and that is the ones in SW Georgia.


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## Throwback (May 12, 2010)

gravedigger83 said:


> Hot diggitty dog
> 
> Can't wait



Let us know when you figure it out. 



T


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## Marlin_444 (May 12, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> You lost me completely here. I have no idea what you`re sayin`.
> 
> But, it ain`t broke, so it don`t need fixin`. Of course, I can only speak of the WMAs I`m familiar with, and that is the ones in SW Georgia.



Gotcha...  So the DNR is not broke; but they are just lookin to raise revenue by marketing, reclassification and alternate use... Sounds like something is getting ready to change...  What I am saying is everyones input on this is important...  Comments, Suggestions and Insights will be critical to move this in a positive "Sportsman's" direction...  I am just not sure saying "we don't want or need it" does that.   There has to be a reason why this was put forward in the first place...  Right (I know it's easy to say the ANTI's did it)?  

I like every sportsman here, want my Grandchildren and Great Grandchilren to have places like I have had to hunt to im my lifetime...  Just how much is a WMA Stamp?  How many do we reckon are purchased in a year?  How much more is it worth to us to keep these places available???  

It has been years since I bought one, I think I'll buy one and hunt on a WMA this season!

Sorry, did not mean to drone on...  

See you in the woods...

Ron


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## bronco611 (May 16, 2010)

It is my understanding that at Chickasaw thatall the trees cut "to improve hunting, which I have to say is working greatly" to sell for revenue is actually going to shure up the ga state patrol. Obamanism at its best, or just straight out politics at its worst??? The land was purchased with revenue from hunting license etc. by sportsmen for sportsmen. Check out the Social security fund and medicade funds for a birdseye view of what robbing Peter to pay Paul will get you in the long run. My opinion is if you can't fix it don't break everything else due to your missmanagement of other offices. The money for the trees should have went straight into a fund to suppot dnr officials and things associated with hunting and fishing etc not to support other agencies that have missmanaged their offices. Politics never created any monies to support anything but they(the politicians sure can put their hands out for help after they fall on their butts). I wonder if they run and manage their households the same way they do the offices the run??? If so we all need to take a good look at ourselves and go to the polls and vote everytime they are open. The understanding that the wmas actually belong to the sportsmen(hunters and fishermen of the state holds little water when someone mismanages anything and wants more to cover their behinds and keep the greed going. If it was really by the sportsman for the sportsman then most of the money would have been funnelled into the land as food plots, seed,fiirebreaks, updating bridges funding rangers and wardens and biologist who actually make all of this work for all the sportsmen of this state instead of stating that they need to cut jobs of these individuals and provide for the state police which is supported by the state legislature not the game and fish division. If each institution would be self supporting  and quit asking for bailouts from everyone else this would fix the problems and their would be plenty of money available for all to enjoy the great outdoors without the friction that they create my handling issues the way that officials have done for years. Just my .02.


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## Twenty five ought six (May 16, 2010)

bronco611 said:


> It is my understanding that at Chickasaw thatall the trees cut "to improve hunting, which I have to say is working greatly" to sell for revenue is actually going to shure up the ga state patrol.  .



Except for a very few dedicated funds (gas tax primarily), all of the state money for anything goes into a big ol' state kitty, where the legislature decides how much goes for the governor's big concrete fish pond, and how much goes to the state patrol.  Nothing goes for "something", not license fees, not WMA stamps, not boat registration.

While I support the idea of every user of WMA's paying for the privilege of doing so, I support more the idea of having a dedicated trust fund that those fees are paid into.  

THAT's the next big change sportsmen need to work for.


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## Toffy (May 16, 2010)

*Watch the Money.*

WMA "license" fees do go into the state General Fund.

But these new charges are not licenses fees.
They function like state park fees and go directly to DNR.

If you look at the original press release, you will note that no one in WRD is ID-ed as a spokesperson for this issue.
Only Marketing and Parks folks.

This looks to be an "expansion of Parks" plan.

And DNR is providing no details until the May 17 meeting and closing public comment on May 28.

Why the rush?


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## Unicoidawg (May 16, 2010)

Networker said:


> Why the rush?



$$$$


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## Buck Trax (May 18, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> If non-hunters pay, then they also have a sayso. It ain`t gonna be funny when a hunt is called off, so hikers and birdwatchers can do their thing.



I would argue that most public land hunters would also fail to see the humor in having to call off their entire hunting season because the state is bankrupt and no longer can afford/maintain WMAs. The state has to get money from somewhere.


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## win280 (May 20, 2010)

Heres an idea.
 How about letting the WMA keep the timber cutting money to put back into the WMA. I would venture to guess that with all the timber management happening on the WMA's the WRD would be almost fully funded.But then that takes an act of the state legislature doesn't it. 
Heres another.
Have the county in which the game violation occurred only keep 1/2 the money for the paid violation.Since they do have costs to procecute. Standardize the fines ( since it is a state owned animal,not county) revenue would remain in the WRD and not go to the general fund.
Heres another.
Only have WMA's that are state owned property or we get for free.Paying the timber Co/Private land that can be taken away quickly is not very good business.(Oakey Woods?????)
Heres another.
Have all monies collected for outdoor activities (licences, sales taxes,violation fees,etc go directly to the WRD and have that dept use a percentage of the collected funds for strictly WMA use.
Heres another.Have a special 1% sales tax for any outdoor related purchases,(feed,tack,trailers,binoculars,outdoor clothing,bicycles,camping supplies,motels,outdoor shoes,charcoal,gas,etc...)Basically any item that the hunter/nonhunter would both use in pursuit of their chosen activity on a WMA. Make  the money stay in the WRD/WMA'S system.
Just saying..........


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