# Tree stand gun for hogs



## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

I think I would like to get a compact, shorter than 16" barrel AR15/M5 to use in a tree stand or blind.  I would use it mainly for hogs (or deer). 
I cant typically see farther than 50-150 yards.  I'm thinking 8-12 inch barrel in 300 blackout or 6.8SPC II.   If I am reading right, most of the other AR15 calibers want full length barrels.  I can readily find 6.8SPC on the store shelves but havent seen any 300 blackout in months.   So if I built today, an 11.5" SPCII pistol that might grow up to be a SBR leads.  My 2nd thought was a 10" 300BLK barrel with a suppressor?
Do any of you use this setup?   Is this sufficient for DRT shots of would this be a waste?


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## HogKillaDNR (Nov 22, 2021)

Have you thought about getting a youth model rifle?   I've seen adults do this to cut down on length.


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

I hadnt considered that.  I am going to see what lengths I can find.  
Part of my consideration above was also to build that myself rather than off the shelf.  I've completed one build to date that is actually working well.   I hear the shorter barrels can be tricky though


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

I have a 10.5in .300bo pistol I put together, and also a 8.5in one, I run adjustable gas blocks on all my builds,  so I can tune the rifle to whatever ammo I decide to run,  I also have a 7.62x39 10in barreled pistol ,  all of them function fine and accuracy is more than acceptable out to 100yds,  I've not checked at anyting further than that,   I've not tried to put together a 6.8spc as of yet,  ammo might be easier to find at this moment, but it hasn't caught on the way the .300bo has,   

      In my opinion any of the common calibers in the AR platform would function fine with something in the 10-12in barrel range,  as long as you use an adjustable gas block ,


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## ryanh487 (Nov 22, 2021)

I've got a .350 legend build on the way.  10.5" barrel. Low recoil,  low noise,  and plenty of gun for hogs, deer, or even bear. I'll have a 26" 6 lb hunting rifle. That you can actually find ammo in stock for right now.


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## Big7 (Nov 22, 2021)

I think you need a stamp for anything under 16" bbl and whatever the OAL is.

For what you are talking about, you might take a look at a 3 or 3 1/2 12 guage. 00BK is good out to 100 on hogs and with an extended rifled tube where the choke screws in is good way past that with a good slug. A 3 1/2 inch 00BK with an 18 pellet payload will give a sow and a litter of piglets a heck of a time- then there is the 3 1/2 inch #4BK with a 54 pellet payload. Bad medicine. Good chance you will hit several if they are with the sow.

I had a 20ga 3" bolt action "goose gun" with a fixed full choke and killed a lot of hogs with it. It had a long barrel and rear sight.

Of course, 20ga goose guns went the way of the Dodo bird once lead shot was outlawed for waterfowl.

If you are dead set on a rifle, it don't take much.
Anything near or above 5.56/223 will do the trick. Easily.


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

Big7 said:


> I think you need a stamp for anything under 16" bbl and whatever the OAL is.



  You only have to do the NFA stamp if you have a short barreled rifle,  if you make it a " pistol "  using a pistol brace and keep the length of pull at 13.5in or shorter,,  you have a " legal pistol"  no matter how short the barrel is,  there is some overall length number as well, but with the shorter barrels that doesn't come in to play I believe,


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

ryanh487 said:


> I've got a .350 legend build on the way.  10.5" barrel. Low recoil,  low noise,  and plenty of gun for hogs, deer, or even bear. I'll have a 26" 6 lb hunting rifle. That you can actually find ammo in stock for right now.



    Ammo availability is definitely an advantage with the legend,  whenever I've gone into Academy it seems to be one of the calibers they always have in stock,  been seeing a good bit of 450 bushmaster ammo as well,   that was on my list to build a year or two ago,  just never got around to it.


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## ryanh487 (Nov 22, 2021)

transfixer said:


> Ammo availability is definitely an advantage with the legend,  whenever I've gone into Academy it seems to be one of the calibers they always have in stock,  been seeing a good bit of 450 bushmaster ammo as well,   that was on my list to build a year or two ago,  just never got around to it.



I wouldn't mind a .450 bushmaster too but the recoil and noise is much harsher. I'd want a real SBR or full rifle for that build. Pistol braces are great for mild recoil rounds. I've got one coming with my .350 parts.


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## Gator89 (Nov 22, 2021)

If you have a suppressor, might as well drop another 200 and build an SBR. The ergonomics of a rifle stock justify it, plus the kewl factor of having an SBR.


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> If you have a suppressor, might as well drop another 200 and build an SBR. The ergonomics of a rifle stock justify it, plus the kewl factor of having an SBR.



   I'm about to bite the bullet and buy a suppressor,  just hate having to wait 10months to a year before I can leave with it,  I'm using the Sba4 braces now,  I dont' have a problem with the ergonomics of those,   I had a full size .458socom build a few years ago,  just didn't like the cartridge after having it a while,  and even cases to reload were stupid priced,  I would suspect recoil to be about the same with the 450bm,  it wasn't an issue,    as long as I can use the pistol braces I'm not going to give the Government any more tax money just to use a different stock


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## 6mm Remington (Nov 22, 2021)

I don’t know how set you are on a short barrel but an ar15 with a 16in barrel is still going to be compact and pretty lightweight unless you get a heavy barrel. My 16 in 7.62x39 ar weighs less than 7lbs with an optic. Makes for a sweet woods rifle.


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

6mm Remington said:


> I don’t know how set you are on a short barrel but an ar15 with a 16in barrel is still going to be compact and pretty lightweight unless you get a heavy barrel. My 16 in 7.62x39 ar weighs less than 7lbs with an optic. Makes for a sweet woods rifle.



  I have a 7.62x39 16in I'm currently using for hunting,  but mine is over 8lbs I'm pretty sure,  but it has what they describe as a heavy barrel, (which I don't care for ) and I have a LPVO on top , it isn't bad as far as weight,  but I wouldn't call it light .  it is fairly manueverable ,


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

I am loving all the feedback, much appreciated.  
I have a 3" CZ 1012 semi that I carry often on the ground and it does great but (for me) its longer than I want in the tree stand.  
My biggest problem is that I "need" each of these listed but the CFO frowns on that.
By no means scientific but got on Ammo seek this morning and 450BM and 458SOCOM are close to $2.00 per round and I rarely (if at all) see them on the local shelves. The rest are at or below $1.00 per round.  I see stacks of 7.62x39 and 350 Legend with reasonable prices.   
I had dismissed the 350Legend as I didnt think it was a short barrel candidate.   That one, I am going to look into more.  Same as the 7.62x39, hadnt really given it its due in an AR platform.  
On these, while I think the suppressor would be a great option, do these need muzzle boosters instead?   Pistol length gas blocks and all -or would the adjustable block transfixer mentioned be able to adjust enough?  I might need that Noveske Fire Pig Muzzle booster just for the logo.


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

mtramm said:


> I am loving all the feedback, much appreciated.
> I have a 3" CZ 1012 semi that I carry often on the ground and it does great but (for me) its longer than I want in the tree stand.
> My biggest problem is that I "need" each of these listed but the CFO frowns on that.
> By no means scientific but got on Ammo seek this morning and 450BM and 458SOCOM are close to $2.00 per round and I rarely (if at all) see them on the local shelves. The rest are at or below $1.00 per round.  I see stacks of 7.62x39 and 350 Legend with reasonable prices.
> ...



  You WILL want a blast can or something similar on any of those short barrel configurations,  Witt Machine makes a great version called a SME  (sound mitigation equipment)  that works really well,  my stepson has one on a 7.5in .300bo,   the only drawback to the 7.62x39 is hunting grade ammo isn't always easy to find,  the steel case Russian soft points and hp's will work for hunting, but don't have the expansion we're used to with American made soft points,  

   I have a few thousand rounds of the 7.62x39 stuff, but only a few hundred of what I would call hunting rounds,,  I do reload for all my calibers so that isn't a major concern for me,  as I've accumulated quite a few sst projectiles for that caliber as well as american made soft points

      I don't have any experience with the legend, but don't see why it wouldn't be a viable round in something with a 10 or 11 inch barrel.


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## Gator89 (Nov 22, 2021)

If you are not committed to a semi-auto, check out a "mini-Mauser" compact bolt action in 7.62x39.  A CZ 527 or a Howa mini action.

Ruger makes several compact bolt actions, too.

I have a CZ 527 and am an admitted fan boy.


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## gawildlife (Nov 22, 2021)

I've done quite bit of research into this as well and my thoughts are in performance almost all sources say 6.8 over 300. 300 supersonic comes in underpowered vs 7.62x39. It's still quite usable but know that your dancing on the edge. Subsonic is no better than a pistol cartridge. Magic bullets, those designed specifically for 300blk sub expansion, help.
6.8 does it's best work in 16 inches but doesn't suffer appreciably going shorter.
300 does it's best work in 9 inches but doesn't gain appreciably by going longer.
Anything under 16 will need to be papered as an SBR or you do the work around as a pistol. Considering that AFT is now looking to collapse the brace loophole your build today may be outlawed tomorrow. Go into it with open eyes.
Personally I have a couple spitballing builds on paper that look good to me for that role.
A 16" 6.8 set up as a recce.
A 9"-10.5" 300 pistol set up as a PDW.

But considering what may be coming down the pike the latter may be a non starter.
But it might not be a bad idea to gather up the parts for the PDW so all receivers going forward start life as a pistol even if they grow up to be just a rifle. Just remember to do things in the correct order when doing so and to document.

Another note on the 300. 300 ammo should never ever under any circumstance occupy the same locale as a 5.56/223 upper. By some sort of oversight some 300 ammo can chamber and go into battery in a 5.56/223 and the results are predictably catastrophic.


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## ryanh487 (Nov 22, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> If you have a suppressor, might as well drop another 200 and build an SBR. The ergonomics of a rifle stock justify it, plus the kewl factor of having an SBR.



I'm not going to federally register anything that could be categorized as an "assault weapon".  I'll do an SBS, maybe even a bolt action SBR.  but i'm not registering any form of AR or AK.


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> I've done quite bit of research into this as well and my thoughts are in performance almost all sources say 6.8 over 300. 300 supersonic comes in underpowered vs 7.62x39. It's still quite usable but know that your dancing on the edge. Subsonic is no better than a pistol cartridge. Magic bullets, those designed specifically for 300blk sub expansion, help.
> 6.8 does it's best work in 16 inches but doesn't suffer appreciably going shorter.
> 300 does it's best work in 9 inches but doesn't gain appreciably by going longer.
> Anything under 16 will need to be papered as an SBR or you do the work around as a pistol. Considering that AFT is now looking to collapse the brace loophole your build today may be outlawed tomorrow. Go into it with open eyes.
> ...



I agree that the 6.8 is a better choice than the .300.. I have taken a deer with a 300bo..but I was not impressed. . I'm not using either of my .300bo's as a hunting weapon.. but if I were to I would limit the range to prbly 75yds.. the 7.62x39 i'll stretchout to 100 if I have to.. the 6.8spc is basically a .270 short...prbly easily a 150yd cartridge..maybe a little more with the right bullets


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> If you are not committed to a semi-auto, check out a "mini-Mauser" compact bolt action in 7.62x39.  A CZ 527 or a Howa mini action.
> 
> Ruger makes several compact bolt actions, too.
> 
> I have a CZ 527 and am an admitted fan boy.



HUGE CZ fan also but oddly dont have any of their rifles.   My preferred shotgun and pistol are CZs


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## Gator89 (Nov 22, 2021)

mtramm said:


> HUGE CZ fan also but oddly dont have any of their rifles.   My preferred shotgun and pistol are CZs



I have multiple handguns, but don't have a CZ shogun.

Wish I had known about CZ when I bought my X Bolt in 308 ten or so years ago.


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## Railroader (Nov 22, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> If you are not committed to a semi-auto, check out a "mini-Mauser" compact bolt action in 7.62x39.  A CZ 527 or a Howa mini action.
> 
> Ruger makes several compact bolt actions, too.
> 
> I have a CZ 527 and am an admitted fan boy.



I've got a CZ527 carbine in 762x39, and I too am a fan boy of the little rifle.  I have also had good results on a couple deer and pigs shot with 154gr SP Russian stuff...


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## Gator89 (Nov 22, 2021)

Railroader said:


> I've got a CZ527 carbine in 762x39, and I too am a fan boy of the little rifle.  I have also had good results on a couple deer and pigs shot with 154gr SP Russian stuff...



I have killed two deer with my 527 using 123 grain SST's.  The PPU 123 grain soft points group well and is my back up ammo.  One deer fell in its tracks, the other traveled 50 - 60 yards.

I missed a deer in 2019, but later found my action screws were loose.  I re-torgued the screws and was back on target.  I had a smith remove the ugly front sight off the front of my carbine and I guess he took the stock off and did not properly tighten the screws.


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## frankwright (Nov 22, 2021)

I love my little 7.5" 300 BO for hogs. I was sitting in a box blind watching a feeder on the left down by the creek.
I have a green light mounted on it and a Red Dot.
It will kill a hog right now with a head shot out to 100 yards with a 125gr SST! 
I never tried it on a deer but imagine it would do well with a well placed shot.


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

What you guys are saying on 300 BLK is consistent with what I've read, its borderline effective and that isnt my ideal.  I am more interested in DRT as much as possible. 

I think based on the reloading thoughts, I can rule out 7.62x39...I dont reload (yet) so iffy hunting ammo availability isnt an option.  

This build will start as a pistol - might become an SBR might not.  The 45x's I really like the sound of, but recoil numbers make me leery of using this in a pistol in a tree.  Call me a pansy but getting whacked in the face or testing my safety harness after an awkward tree shot arent appealing. On the ground in optimal barrels though....they sound awesome.

Kinda down to 6.8SPC II and 350 Legend.  Going to look at the ballistic performance from short barrels to figure which has the sweetest spot (on paper at least).   I am going out later today to pick up an Aero Precision M4E1 lower to get started.  I think I am going to do semi-auto on a pig gun.  I like the faster follow-up ability and accuracy on any barrel I would get ought to be within a minute of pig.

I am watching the new proposed rulings for pistol vs SBR.  I figure they would know I bought an AR lower, knowing it 2x via the tax stamp - I dont know that I'd be worse off?


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

frankwright said:


> I love my little 7.5" 300 BO for hogs. I was sitting in a box blind watching a feeder on the left down by the creek.
> I have a green light mounted on it and a Red Dot.
> It will kill a hog right now with a head shot out to 100 yards with a 125gr SST!
> I never tried it on a deer but imagine it would do well with a well placed shot.




I was posting at the same time - thats a sweet rig.


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## HogKillaDNR (Nov 22, 2021)

transfixer said:


> You only have to do the NFA stamp if you have a short barreled rifle,  if you make it a " pistol "  using a pistol brace and keep the length of pull at 13.5in or shorter,,  you have a " legal pistol"  no matter how short the barrel is,  there is some overall length number as well, but with the shorter barrels that doesn't come in to play I believe,


True unless it's a pistol build and the brace or stock is what you have to watch out for to stay legal unless you do a stamp for SBR.


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## mtramm (Nov 22, 2021)

I am not a veteran builder so as long as the finished pistol performs well, I will probably promote it to an SBR


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## transfixer (Nov 22, 2021)

HogKillaDNR said:


> True unless it's a pistol build and the brace or stock is what you have to watch out for to stay legal unless you do a stamp for SBR.



  I've made sure the length of pull using my braces is 13.5 or under, and no vertical foregrips,  handstops are okay,  I carry one in my truck all the time,  so I made sure if I ever have to use it,  that it is within the limits ,,  they make stops that you can insert into the carbine buffer tubes to keep the braces from going back too far, making your length of pull over the limit of what they will allow for a pistol,


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## gawildlife (Nov 22, 2021)

mtramm said:


> HUGE CZ fan also but oddly dont have any of their rifles.   My preferred shotgun and pistol are CZs



I've always thought a little full stocked mini would be about the best possible woods gun for deer short of my beloved winchester leverguns.
Only thing is I never much cared for the 7.62x39 for hunting due to not having dedicated hunting ammo, plus the bore size issue. Now a 6.8 or 6.5 would be about ideal.


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## gawildlife (Nov 22, 2021)

mtramm said:


> What you guys are saying on 300 BLK is consistent with what I've read, its borderline effective and that isnt my ideal.  I am more interested in DRT as much as possible.
> 
> I think based on the reloading thoughts, I can rule out 7.62x39...I dont reload (yet) so iffy hunting ammo availability isnt an option.
> 
> ...



Don't worry about recoil unless you weigh less than 90lbs. I regularly blast 12ga 1 1/8oz slugs out of a fixed breach Ithaca M37 featherweight from every elevation and have never been unbalanced by it. Heck, most of the time I don't even notice it. But then again I do have check the weight rating of my stands, lol.
With an ARs more or less floating in line recoil system recoil should be a gentle push instead of a karate chop, particularly if you run an adjustable gas block and tune it.


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## gawildlife (Nov 22, 2021)

BTW the 458socom compares very favorably with the 12ga slug and I consider slugs to be the most supreme deer thumper available.


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## sleepr71 (Nov 23, 2021)

I find a 16” AR,with collapsible buttstock to be compact enough for hunting in box stands,climbers,whatever. Personally,after having been around this block a time,or three…I’d go 6.8SPCII & not look back. 16” Barrel,1-8x optic,good trigger,good Ammo …potent from 0-400 yds…??


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## Gator89 (Nov 23, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> Only thing is I never much cared for the 7.62x39 for hunting due to not having dedicated hunting ammo, plus the bore size issue. Now a 6.8 or 6.5 would be about ideal.



It is just not true that there is no dedicated hunting ammo in 7.62x39.

7.62x39 123 gr SST® Hornady BLACK® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

PPU makes a traditional cup & core pointed soft point, also

7.62x39 - PPU USA Ammunition (ppu-usa.com)

Federal Fusion

Buy Fusion Rifle for USD 37.99 | Federal Ammunition (federalpremium.com)

Winchester Deer Season

X76239DS | Winchester Ammunition

Remington Core Lokts

Buy Core-Lokt for USD 48.99 | Remington


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## Kestas69 (Nov 23, 2021)

Thinking about 350 legend pistol for my self. Here is velocity data chart regarding to barrel length.


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## sleepr71 (Nov 23, 2021)

Agree on the 7.62x39 being viable as a hunting round. I’d trust it to 150yds,no sweat..probably 200. It’s also easy to find cheap Ammo for…making it good for other purposes…?


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## transfixer (Nov 23, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> It is just not true that there is no dedicated hunting ammo in 7.62x39.
> 
> 7.62x39 123 gr SST® Hornady BLACK® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
> 
> ...




  I didn't mean that there isn't good hunting ammo available,,   I meant finding it is especially difficult right now, 

 even back befor the pandemic craziness,  all I could find was Hornady black,  and it was very limited in availability,,   I've never ran across federal or the others you mentioned


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## Gator89 (Nov 23, 2021)

transfixer said:


> I didn't mean that there isn't good hunting ammo available,,   I meant finding it is especially difficult right now,
> 
> even back befor the pandemic craziness,  all I could find was Hornady black,  and it was very limited in availability,,   I've never ran across federal or the others you mentioned



I understood your post and your post was not quoted.

All the hunting 7.62x39 I have, I bought from on-line sellers with one exception. I was in Bass Pro a couple of weeks ago and one box of Hornady Black brass case was on the shelf, that box is now in my stash.


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## gawildlife (Nov 23, 2021)

Gator89 said:


> It is just not true that there is no dedicated hunting ammo in 7.62x39.
> 
> 7.62x39 123 gr SST® Hornady BLACK® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
> 
> ...



That is true today but not when I started fooling around with 7.62×39 back in the day when 75 bucks could get you a nice sks. Fun guns but not good deer guns with the ammo available.


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 24, 2021)

Are you dead set on a pistol for some reason? I have a 16" AR in 7.62x39 that is plenty compact for tree stand hunting, love it. Don't know why you would need something even shorter. I 100% definitely wouldn't trade mine for a shorter barreled one, if that tells you anything. As for ammo, I usually use the Hornady Black SSTs, great hunting round for that caliber. I've killed a good bit of stuff with it.


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## mtramm (Nov 24, 2021)

I wouldnt say dead set, I like the idea of a compact SBR but 16 might be fine depending in how much power the caliber loses in the under 16.   Not interested if I am going to neuter the round.


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## transfixer (Nov 24, 2021)

mtramm said:


> I wouldnt say dead set, I like the idea of a compact SBR but 16 might be fine depending in how much power the caliber loses in the under 16.   Not interested if I am going to neuter the round.



   You'll obviously get more velocity from a 16in barrel than a shorter one,  it really depends on the distance you intend to use one at .   For 100yds or under,  most calibers will still have plenty of punch and speed with a 10in barrel,  depending on the caliber you can figure on losing 25-50fps for each inch you shorten from 16,   so if a round gets 2300fps from a 16in barrel,  then at the most you're down to 2000fps roughly with a 10in.


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## chrislibby88 (Nov 25, 2021)

mtramm said:


> I think I would like to get a compact, shorter than 16" barrel AR15/M5 to use in a tree stand or blind.  I would use it mainly for hogs (or deer).
> I cant typically see farther than 50-150 yards.  I'm thinking 8-12 inch barrel in 300 blackout or 6.8SPC II.   If I am reading right, most of the other AR15 calibers want full length barrels.  I can readily find 6.8SPC on the store shelves but havent seen any 300 blackout in months.   So if I built today, an 11.5" SPCII pistol that might grow up to be a SBR leads.  My 2nd thought was a 10" 300BLK barrel with a suppressor?
> Do any of you use this setup?   Is this sufficient for DRT shots of would this be a waste?


Get the 6.8, .350, or .450. Gonna get the most versatility with a 6.8 with 12-14 inch barrel. .350 would be a close second. .450 would be beast too.
Blackout is good for shooting suppressed out of short barrels, that’s about it. It’s cheaper to convert- you only need a new barrel. 5.56 bolt and mags work with blackout.

350 will require a new barrel and mags.

The 6.8 and .450 require new bolts, barrels, and new mags.


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## Falcata (Nov 25, 2021)

I’ve been hunting pigs and deer with a 300 BO pistol for the last 2-3 years (7.5 in barrel).  Ive made shots from 10 to 75 yards with Barnes 120 grain ammo and it has been very effective. Since I walk a lot hunting pigs I wanted something light and easy to carry.  When I need something with a bit more range I use a .308 pistol with a 12 inch barrel.  It’s a little heavier but is good to 150 - 200 yards.


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## mtramm (Nov 30, 2021)

After reading (a lot) and roaming the local gun stores, 350 Legend was the sweet spot for me.  Seems to have the punch and I can get ammo (for now at least) readily and at decent prices. (saw $19-$33 a box)
Went with a 10.5 inch (with a can) for a pistol build.  Havent decided if I want to pay the stamp or not to add a stock but leaning toward it.

450 was 2nd.  I prefer its punch but the 2 cons for me were price and availability. 

I could find 6.8 on the shelf but not as much and it ran just a little higher than 350. 6.5 Grendel was the same, a little hard to tell these two apart.  But, I own a .243 and I think I would reach for it before 6.8 or 6.5.

That was my thoughts anyway...Thanks for all the great advice.

btw...one resource that helped me was a video on youtube where a 350 Legend barrel is cut down inch by inch and muzzle velocities recorded...cool video


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## transfixer (Nov 30, 2021)

I discovered something this past week when I was at the club during thanksgiving,  I have had a quantity of Brown Bear 125gr soft points for years,, decided to take a couple boxes with me to sight in a 1.5x6 optic I put on my 10in barreled 7.62x39 pistol,  much to my surprise the rounds were very accurate and consistent !   shooting off sandbags once I dialed it in,  I was pretty much one holing 3 shots at 50yds,, and 3 shots into just slightly more than 1in at 100yds,  I don't know how those soft points will expand on an animal ,,  but I am more than impressed with their accuracy, its on par with the Hornady Black sst's that I was using for hunting up till now. 

   I plan on using only it to hunt with the rest of the year,  so maybe I'll find out how they perform,


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## mtramm (Nov 30, 2021)

7.62x39 is another round that I saw plenty of stock on the shelf and at good prices


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## transfixer (Nov 30, 2021)

mtramm said:


> 7.62x39 is another round that I saw plenty of stock on the shelf and at good prices



unfortunately what you mainly see on shelves now is fmj,, and while the prices aren't bad compared to other calibers,  its roughly twice the price is used to be. It can still be found online if you're persistent,, and actually found some Barnaul softpoint stuff a couple months ago and picked up another 500rds.


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## db2teg (Dec 1, 2021)

11” 6.5 Grendel!!!


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## furtaker (Dec 1, 2021)

transfixer said:


> I discovered something this past week when I was at the club during thanksgiving,  I have had a quantity of Brown Bear 125gr soft points for years,, decided to take a couple boxes with me to sight in a 1.5x6 optic I put on my 10in barreled 7.62x39 pistol,  much to my surprise the rounds were very accurate and consistent !   shooting off sandbags once I dialed it in,  I was pretty much one holing 3 shots at 50yds,, and 3 shots into just slightly more than 1in at 100yds,  I don't know how those soft points will expand on an animal ,,  but I am more than impressed with their accuracy, its on par with the Hornady Black sst's that I was using for hunting up till now.
> 
> I plan on using only it to hunt with the rest of the year,  so maybe I'll find out how they perform,


My 7.62x39 AR shoots most of the cheap Russian stuff very well. Better than some of the higher quality brass stuff.


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## mtramm (Dec 2, 2021)

I have a 308 that gets the tightest groups in the 165-170 grain range.  I've tested from upper 140s to 180s...147gr gets about 3" at 100 yards, 168 grain is under 1"  Brand and type of bullet doesn't seem to matter.


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## mtramm (Dec 2, 2021)

db2teg said:


> 11” 6.5 Grendel!!!



More I read, the more I like Grendel over 6.8SPC


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## transfixer (Dec 2, 2021)

mtramm said:


> I have a 308 that gets the tightest groups in the 165-170 grain range.  I've tested from upper 140s to 180s...147gr gets about 3" at 100 yards, 168 grain is under 1"  Brand and type of bullet doesn't seem to matter.



  that is likely because the rate of twist is 1 in 10in,,  which lends itself to bullets in that grain range,   if it were 1 in 12 it would likely shoot the 147gr and 150gr more accurately than the heavier ones


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## mtramm (Dec 2, 2021)

Ah, I usually buy what my budget allows and don't pay enough attention to the twist rates, which I need to change.   Glad I lucked into a heavier one than a lighter.   How much impact would that have in a short (10.5) barrel? Looks like what I have coming is a 1:16 twist on the 350L


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## transfixer (Dec 2, 2021)

mtramm said:


> Ah, I usually buy what my budget allows and don't pay enough attention to the twist rates, which I need to change.   Glad I lucked into a heavier one than a lighter.   How much impact would that have in a short (10.5) barrel? Looks like what I have coming is a 1:16 twist on the 350L



     that is probably correct for the legend,   not as much variation on twist with some of the slower moving calibers,, and the fact that the bullet weight range for that caliber isn't that varied,    with a .308 you can shoot anything from a 110gr to a 220gr,  that is the reason for the varied twists you'll find with most of those rifles


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## mtramm (Dec 2, 2021)

I've found 140-180 grains so far on shelves


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## ldavid008 (Dec 25, 2021)

In 16" barrels the 6.8 will out perform the grendel.

6.8 was developed for short barrels and nothing is gained by going over 18". Going from 16" to 18" is also fairly minimal.

Grendel on the other hand does best in longer barrels. Look deeper in the grendels published numbers and you'll see that its "better" numbers are out of a 24" barrel. If you research the grendel you'll inevitably see a comparsion between the two with the grendel on top. Again, dig into the numbers, it's usually a 22" or 24" grendel vs a 16" 6.8.

In GA you pretty much have to stay at 11" or less to get keep it a legal pistol, under 26". Guys in TX use 12.5" 6.8's successfully out to 250+ yards all the time. I'd expect a 10.5" would be more than adequate at 150 yards.

If you plan on going SBR, I'd go 12.5" 6.8 in an ARP barrel. Besides the extra money and paperwork, keep in mind that you must have prior approval from the ATF to take it out of the state.

As others have said, if you go below 16", then you're gonna want a suppressor or hearing protection. 10.5" barrels are brutal on the ears unprotected.


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## mtramm (Dec 25, 2021)

As of today I will be in the tree stands with an 10.5 inch 350Legend and due to some black Friday deals, a surprise 7.5 inch 7.62x39... both with flash cans.  Both under 26" OAL and 13" LOP


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## Permitchaser (Jan 16, 2022)

I like my Savage Patrol AR. I load 77 gr. BTH and I can get less than 1/2" at 100 yds. I've shot Coyotes with it and a head on shot at about 100 yds goes from front out the back. Can't imagine it won't kill a pig but I've never tried


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## frankwright (Jan 17, 2022)

One of the things I like about pigs is there are so many fun guns to shoot them with.
My hunting partner and I have killed them with Longbow and recurve, .22 Mag, 17 HMR, .223, .30 carbine, 10mm Glock, 30-06, .300 Blk Out, 12 ga while turkey hunting,45-70 and some others I can't think of right now.
I just ordered a 16" 7.62X39 AR upper for a few places where the shots are a little longer.
I hope to be getting after them in the next week or so if I get the feeders and stands up and running.


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