# Moses  &  Schizophrenia



## HawgJawl (Mar 22, 2011)

Have you ever considered how many personality traits of Moses are consistent with symptoms of schizophrenia?

Some schizophrenics today suffer from delusions that are religious in nature.  If you believe that you are a prophet or have been somehow singled out by God, this is classified as a religious delusion.  Another religious delusion would be if you believe that you have been given the duty (whether you want it or not) to relay messages from God to people, or if you believe that you have been given the duty (whether you want it or not) to intercede on people's behalf before God.  If you believe that you can perform miracles through God, or you can in some way control curses or plagues through God, these are all classified as religious delusions.

The most common type of schizophrenic delusion is a paranoid delusion, such as a belief that you are being forced to do something against your will, possibly by God.  You might believe that God will punish you for failure.  If you believe that God has made direct threats to you or to others for you to relay, this is classified as a paranoid delusion.  You might believe that people in a far away place who may not even know you exist, somehow pose a threat to your mission, or you might believe that the customs and beliefs of people you come in contact with pose a direct threat to your mission.  You might believe that people around you are constantly plotting against you or want to remove you from your position.  If you believe that accidents or other natural events are punishments from God, or if you believe that specific religious ceremonies must be performed or God will punish you, these are all classified as paranoid delusions.  

Obsessive compulsive disorder is commonly associated with schizophrenia.  If you assign inticate physical detail to an object or ritual that otherwise appears unnecessary, this is a sign of OCD.  If you assign a precisely detailed regiment to a ritual that should be spiritual in nature, or assign a precise schedule of occurrence for the ritual, these are all signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

Auditory hallucinations are common in people suffering from schizpohrenia.  If you hear a voice inside your head that is giving you directions, this is classified as an internal auditory hallucination.  If you hear a voice that to you sounds as clear and real as an actual voice, this is classified as an external auditory hallucination.

If you see things that other people cannot see, things that are unrealistic or miraculous, this is classified as a visual hallucination.

Many people suffering from schizophrenia have delusions of grandeur.  They might believe that they have an important mission or they have a special purpose.  People suffering from delusions of grandeur often believe that everything else in the world is truly insignificant because the only thing that matters is their specific mission.  They might believe that they alone can hear messages from God.  They might believe that they alone can speak directly to God on other's behalf.  They might believe that they alone can ask for miracles to save other people's lives.  They might believe that they alone can intercede for relief from curses or disasters.  They might believe that they have been chosen by God to lead people.  Many schizophrenics suffering from delusions of grandeur feel the need to chronicle their life's experiences to serve mankind in the future.

Any person today who exhibited only two or three of the above listed characteristics would be diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Is it possible that in the recent past, we may have been sent prophets who we either heavily medicated or committed to a mental institution?


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## Lowjack (Mar 22, 2011)

What do you call your Condition ?
Always looking for defects on the bible and or Bible Characters ?

There must be a dignosis for that ?


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## HawgJawl (Mar 22, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> What do you call your Condition ?
> Always looking for defects on the bible and or Bible Characters ?
> 
> There must be a dignosis for that ?



It's only schizophrenia if what you believe is not real or true.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 22, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> It's only schizophrenia if what you believe is not real or true.



Interesting post considering your self-proclaimed "faith."


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## Crubear (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks, I needed a chuckle today


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## dawg2 (Mar 22, 2011)

holy cow...


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## atl3128 (Mar 22, 2011)

I find people who falsely claim to be a Christian very interesting. They try harder and harder to convince Christians that god is not real, he is a fairytale or they just mock his word altogether. What I have discovered is they are trying to compensate for a void they have in their life one that cannot be filled with mockery or possessions. They are trying to convince themselves that feeling they have deep inside them isn’t real and that it isn’t GOD seeking them out. I will tell you this it’s okay you can let go of your past transgressions and foolish pride seek him out.  GOD is real and is seeking you out if you would only listen and truly believe you shall have his grace and in that you will fill that void with truth, peace and understanding.


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## gtparts (Mar 22, 2011)

*Huuuuuuuuhhhh?????????*

HawgJawl, son, something or someone is more than a full bubble out of plumb.


And I don't mean Moses!


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## formula1 (Mar 22, 2011)

*Re:*



HawgJawl said:


> Have you ever considered how many personality traits of Moses are consistent with symptoms of schizophrenia?
> 
> Is it possible that in the recent past, we may have been sent prophets who we either heavily medicated or committed to a mental institution?



No. And I don't consider a man of God, Moses or any other, of a demented mind! They are called out men of God and obedient servants, no more no less!

No. I have absolute faith that a true prophet of God in this day would also have the hand of God surrounding and protecting Him as long as the message God has for him to deliver is still being delievered.

I will admit the concept of a servant of the most high God can be difficult for a natural man to comprehend though. It also takes child-like faith to trust and follow one whom you cannot see.


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## gordon 2 (Mar 22, 2011)

gtparts said:


> HawgJawl, son, something or someone is more than a full bubble out of plumb.
> 
> 
> And I don't mean Moses!



Did you notice that the duck can't see ahead....or it is a trophy mount done in poor light.... Just saying...


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## HawgJawl (Mar 22, 2011)

formula1 said:


> No. And I don't consider a man of God, Moses or any other, of a demented mind! They are called out men of God and obedient servants, no more no less!
> 
> No. I have absolute faith that a true prophet of God in this day would also have the hand of God surrounding and protecting Him as long as the message God has for him to deliver is still being delievered.
> 
> I will admit the concept of a servant of the most high God can be difficult for a natural man to comprehend though. It also takes child-like faith to trust and follow one whom you cannot see.




Thanks for addressing the question.


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## gordon 2 (Mar 22, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Have you ever considered how many personality traits of Moses are consistent with symptoms of schizophrenia?
> 
> Some schizophrenics today suffer from delusions that are religious in nature.  If you believe that you are a prophet or have been somehow singled out by God, this is classified as a religious delusion.  Another religious delusion would be if you believe that you have been given the duty (whether you want it or not) to relay messages from God to people, or if you believe that you have been given the duty (whether you want it or not) to intercede on people's behalf before God.  If you believe that you can perform miracles through God, or you can in some way control curses or plagues through God, these are all classified as religious delusions.
> 
> ...



What did you expect ordinary folk who have the numb skull perspectives of fast chariots, home preserves, beer and a fat retirement?


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## HawgJawl (Mar 22, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> It's only schizophrenia if what you believe is not real or true.



I guess I should clarify what I was saying there.

Moses would only be a schizophrenic if what Moses believed was NOT real or true.

If someone today exhibited similar traits, would we initially classify their beliefs as valid and true or as schizophrenia?


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## drippin' rock (Mar 22, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> I guess I should clarify what I was saying there.
> 
> Moses would only be a schizophrenic if what Moses believed was NOT real or true.
> 
> If someone today exhibited similar traits, would we initially classify their beliefs as valid and true or as schizophrenia?



I'm going with Schizo.  We live in a reason based society.  Anyone claiming to be a prophet, unless they have the ability to persuade even the most jaded heart, would be looked upon as whacko.

There was a time when you coud walk up to someone on the path and say, " I saw the sun turn red yesterday!"  And they would get wide-eyed and say, "Really?"  "What do you think that means?"

If you said that today the answer would be "Really???  I was outside all day myself and saw no such thing."


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## JFS (Mar 22, 2011)

Or consider Abraham. What would we say about people who try to kill their child because "god told them to"?


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## gordon 2 (Mar 22, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> I guess I should clarify what I was saying there.
> 
> Moses would only be a schizophrenic if what Moses believed was NOT real or true.
> 
> If someone today exhibited similar traits, would we initially classify their beliefs as valid and true or as schizophrenia?



Depends. Valid and true if it conformed to known spiritual  experience. 

Illness if is conformed to known pathologies.

To know the difference one  seriously studies both.


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## JFS (Mar 22, 2011)

formula1 said:


> I have absolute faith that a true prophet of God in this day would also have the hand of God surrounding and protecting Him as long as the message God has for him to deliver is still being delievered.



So how would one recognize a prophet today?  If someone claimed to hear god and says god instructed them to deliver a new law, how do you validate that?


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## Ronnie T (Mar 22, 2011)

This has got to be a new low for the Spiritual Discussion forum.
Get the shovels out fellows........ What's next?
We need to strive for some decent subject matter.


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## gordon 2 (Mar 22, 2011)

JFS said:


> So how would one recognize a prophet today?  If someone claimed to hear god and says god instructed them to deliver a new law, how do you validate that?



From knowing prophets. Same way you would know a dentist, a poet, a mason etc....


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## gordon 2 (Mar 22, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> This has got to be a new low for the Spiritual Discussion forum.
> Get the shovels out fellows........ What's next?
> We need to strive for some decent subject matter.



Go ahead...start a tread and white wash this neigbourhood.


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## Ronnie T (Mar 22, 2011)

gordon 2 said:


> Go ahead...start a tread and white wash this neigbourhood.



Hey! Are you challenging me? 

Okay, give me a couple of minutes.


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## Lowjack (Mar 22, 2011)

JFS said:


> So how would one recognize a prophet today?  If someone claimed to hear god and says god instructed them to deliver a new law, how do you validate that?



We don't need prophets today, there is nothing new taht God wants to tell us , it is all written

Besides; Hebrews Chapter 1
1- God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2-
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

Lowjack said:


> We don't need prophets today, there is nothing new taht God wants to tell us , it is all written



That exact same statement could have been made at the end of Deuteronomy and the Bible could have ended right there with 5 books.

I counted thirty-three (33) times throughout Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy that it is clearly stated that the laws given by Moses were permanent laws or some combination of the following words;
permanent
forever
for Aaron and his descendants
to be kept from generation to generation

I can find no place where Moses said that the OT laws were to be followed until Jesus came or anything like that.

They had their laws and their future was clearly mapped out and they were told that it would never change, but it did change.

I think it is very presumptuous to say that things could never change again.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 23, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> This has got to be a new low for the Spiritual Discussion forum.
> Get the shovels out fellows........ What's next?
> We need to strive for some decent subject matter.



I guess it goes to show you what can happen when you don't believe the Bible is the infallible inerrant Word of God.

All bets are off and anything can become truth or error.

Fortunately, for us, we've got HawgJawl who can determine what is truth and what is error and set us back on the straight & narrow.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> I guess it goes to show you what can happen when you don't believe the Bible is the infallible inerrant Word of God.
> 
> All bets are off and anything can become truth or error.
> 
> Fortunately, for us, we've got HawgJawl who can determine what is truth and what is error and set us back on the straight & narrow.



Are you still maintaining that there are no errors in the Bible?

Was the 1611 KJV without errors, or just the current publication after over 300 corrections and changes were made to it to correct errors?


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## thedeacon (Mar 23, 2011)

Hawg, I have never had any thoughts like you have described about Moses but I have to say I have had many thoughts about people that think like you.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 23, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> Are you still maintaining that there are no errors in the Bible?
> 
> Was the 1611 KJV without errors, or just the current publication after over 300 corrections and changes were made to it to correct errors?



The 1611 less the dueterocanonical books is very close to what we have currently.  Of course you're going to have translation differences....so go back to the original text.  That is without error.  And yes, I believe what we have today is very very close (99.99%) to the same as the original text.  Archeological finds have verified that.


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## HawgJawl (Mar 23, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> The 1611 less the dueterocanonical books is very close to what we have currently.  Of course you're going to have translation differences....so go back to the original text.  That is without error.  And yes, I believe what we have today is very very close (99.99%) to the same as the original text.  Archeological finds have verified that.



Who was the father of Salah?

Genesis 11:12   Arphaxad begat Salah

Luke 3:35-36     Cainan begat Salah


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## Crubear (Mar 23, 2011)

Didn't think of it originally, but Jesus family and others thought he was crazy at times.

To answer the real quesiton though, could a mentally unstable man lead a nation for 40 years and not fall completely apart in the process? Moses in fact got better at it as time went on. 

Don't just look at the symptoms, look at the results as well.


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## Israel (Mar 25, 2011)

"we would" do this or that...consign them to a mental institution, have them arrested for child abuse or endangerment.
Precisely.
The "we would" are the ones who would crucify the innocent lamb of God, deny the true Lord who created us...and in every way continue in our headlong rush to manifest every form of depravity and antichrist behavior imaginable.
You are right in what we would do...for we never see the forest for the trees.
Yes...what we have established as "reasonable" behavior...and use the very terms you mentioned to censure and intimidate anyone that might believe they can intimately know their creator has been working very well for thousands of years.
The true aberration is the belief that men are not singled out by God...indeed that God desires to "single out" every man for total dependence and re-establishment of relationship  with his creator is the abomination.
Yep, God may have you lay on your side for many days...watch as your wife turns to a pillar of salt...do and/or behold so many things that the world finds absolutely ridiculous or unacceptable.
When the fall came...we all fell very far indeed.
So far that we call hearing God's voice unusual...but allow our guts to turn into a knot when a man with a clipboard approaches our work area with a scowl.
We often fear shadows...but laugh in the face of the King.


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 25, 2011)

atl3128 said:


> I find people who falsely claim to be a Christian very interesting. They try harder and harder to convince Christians that god is not real, he is a fairytale or they just mock his word altogether. *What I have discovered is they are trying to compensate for a void they have in their life *one that cannot be filled with mockery or possessions. They are trying to convince themselves that feeling they have deep inside them isn’t real and that it isn’t GOD seeking them out. I will tell you this it’s okay you can let go of your past transgressions and foolish pride seek him out.  GOD is real and is seeking you out if you would only listen and truly believe you shall have his grace and in that you will fill that void with truth, peace and understanding.



I'm 100% convinced you just tell yourself this to feel superior.


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 25, 2011)

formula1 said:


> I will admit the concept of a servant of the most high God can be difficult for a natural man to comprehend though. It also takes child-like faith to trust and follow one whom you cannot see.



That doesn't raise any red flags for you?


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 25, 2011)

HawgJawl said:


> I counted thirty-three (33) times throughout Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy that it is clearly stated that the laws given by Moses were permanent laws or some combination of the following words;



I am impressed.


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 25, 2011)

JFS said:


> Or consider Abraham. What would we say about people who try to kill their child because "god told them to"?



Batted that one around 2 years ago (see here).  This crowd disapproves the notion that God would tell a parent to kill their child.  Well, to do that in the modern era.  Back then it was different ya know.


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## gtparts (Mar 26, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Batted that one around 2 years ago (see here).  This crowd disapproves the notion that God would tell a parent to kill their child.  Well, to do that in the modern era.  Back then it was different ya know.


You must be unfamiliar with the entire series of events. It is clear that Abraham's willingness to obey was something that Abraham needed to fully comprehend, to trust that God would somehow work through the situation and be faithful to making a great nation of Abraham's son of promise, Issac. Abraham honored God by his willingness to sacrifice Issac. God honored Abraham for his willingness to sacrifice Issac.

Abraham well knew that Issac belonged to God from the beginning.


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