# Whale hunting



## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

Is it OK to hunt whales?   Dolphins?  Chimpanzees?  Gorillas?

I'm asking from the standpoint that those animals have exhibited sentience and in the case of chimps, gorillas and dolphins, they can express feelings.


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## 12gamag (Jan 6, 2010)

all animals express feelings......do you have a dog or a cat?? arnt they affectionate towards you??


lol-why would anyone want shoot a chimp or a gorilla?? I shore aint gonna try to eat one....


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

12gamag said:


> all animals express feelings......do you have a dog or a cat?? arnt they affectionate towards you??
> 
> 
> lol-why would anyone want shoot a chimp or a gorilla?? I shore aint gonna try to eat one....



Indigenous people hunted chimps and gorillas for food before they became protected.  People all around the world eat dogs and cats.  I don't think dogs and cats are as intelligent as whales or primates.  Does an animals intelligence have anything to do with whether or not you view it as appropriate to hunt for food?


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## seaweaver (Jan 6, 2010)

No...just if it goes well w/ beer and rice.

cw


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## Parker Phoenix (Jan 6, 2010)

Soooo, are the Japanese hunting whales or are they doing research?

Question #2 Should the whaling ship that rammed the PETARD vessel be punished?


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

Parker Phoenix said:


> Soooo, are the Japanese hunting whales or are they doing research?
> 
> Question #2 Should the whaling ship that rammed the PETARD vessel be punished?



I think they are hunting whales for food.  I think the anti-whaling vessels are usually breaking the law.

That's not the question.

Do you think it's OK to hunt and eat chimps, whales or gorillas?


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## 12gamag (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Indigenous people hunted chimps and gorillas for food before they became protected.  People all around the world eat dogs and cats.  I don't think dogs and cats are as intelligent as whales or primates.  Does an animals intelligence have anything to do with whether or not you view it as appropriate to hunt for food?





well my grandaddy ate monkey in korea during the war-said it was pretty good once you got past the fact that it looked like a baby laying in fryin' pan....
 Me myself I have no desire to try to eat monkey....
however it has nothing to do with eating "Intelligent" critters. 

possums good with sweet taters, coons good with a mustard based rub, rattlesnakes good fried,
 what they heck would monkey be good with???anybody got any recipies??


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## Steve Thompson (Jan 6, 2010)

Some animals are not as abundant as deer. Deer, Elk and other animals we hunt have to be managed in one way or another.
  I dont care for monkey meat or monkey at all.


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## Trizey (Jan 6, 2010)

If I was hungry enough, I'd eat anything up to and including any "intelligent" animal.


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

seaweaver said:


> No...just if it goes well w/ beer and rice.
> 
> cw



I agree, but what if you were hunting a chimp that knew sign language and through your scope you could see it begging you, in sign language, not to kill it.  Would that keep you from killing it?


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

Steve Thompson said:


> Some animals are not as abundant as deer. Deer, Elk and other animals we hunt have to be managed in one way or another.
> I dont care for monkey meat or monkey at all.



I'm not talking about "management" or "stewardship",  I'm talking a bout whether or not you would kill and eat something with sentience or the ability to express complex thoughts.



Trizey said:


> If I was hungry enough, I'd eat anything up to and including any "intelligent" animal.



Even if it could use sign language to beg for it's life?



12gamag said:


> well my grandaddy ate monkey in korea during the war-said it was pretty good once you got past the fact that it looked like a baby laying in fryin' pan....
> Me myself I have no desire to try to eat monkey....
> however it has nothing to do with eating "Intelligent" critters.
> 
> ...



"Baby in a frying pan."  That's pretty funny. Why don't you want to eat one?


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## Inthegarge (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I agree, but what if you were hunting a chimp that knew sign language and through your scope and it begged you, in sign language, not to kill it.  Would that keep you from killing it?



Nope....look too much like Vietcong (oops, wrong thread) but I don't harvest animals I don't eat. With 1  exception...Prediators (sp) because they try to eat my meals for me....LOL     RW


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## 12gamag (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I'm not talking about "management" or "stewardship",  I'm talking a bout whether or not you would kill and eat something with sentience or the ability to express complex thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



just look at'em!! do they look like somethin' you would want to eat??-lol!!    now give me a couple days of goin' hungery.........the MONKEY WILL BE IN THE FRYIN" PAN....


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## 12gamag (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Even if it could use sign language to beg for it's life?
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## QTurn (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I agree, but what if you were hunting a chimp that knew sign language and through your scope and it begged you, in sign language, not to kill it.  Would that keep you from killing it?



I don't know sign language.  The chimp would be LOL....


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

So if it could speak Mandarin (forgive me for assuming that you don't understand Mandarin) and was begging for its life,  you would still kill it?


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

12gamag said:


> ambush80 said:
> 
> 
> > Even if it could use sign language to beg for it's life?
> ...


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## QTurn (Jan 6, 2010)

I speak Cantonese.  So, again, he would be a hoo hoo head....


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## Parker Phoenix (Jan 6, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I think they are hunting whales for food.  I think the anti-whaling vessels are usually breaking the law.
> 
> That's not the question.
> 
> Do you think it's OK to hunt and eat chimps, whales or gorillas?



Didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## ambush80 (Jan 6, 2010)

Parker Phoenix said:


> Didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## Coastie (Jan 7, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Is it OK to hunt whales?   Dolphins?  Chimpanzees?  Gorillas?
> 
> I'm asking from the standpoint that those animals have exhibited sentience and in the case of chimps, gorillas and dolphins, they can express feelings.



Yes.


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## turky93 (Jan 7, 2010)

I agree with coastie. I don't care how smart they are. They are animals, bottom line.


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## seaweaver (Jan 7, 2010)

And What of you A80?....
where are you going w/ it?
Just to press the depths?
If I happen upon an animal while in my pursuit of game and adventure that can sing "hello my Baby, Hello my Honey..Hello my ragtime gal..." do I capture it for fame and fortune...Pass it up as a sign of my humanity.....or just have frog legs?
It would depend on my belly...but if said animal was the aim of my pursuit...I doubt my humanity would get in the way.



cw


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

seaweaver said:


> And What of you A80?....
> where are you going w/ it?
> Just to press the depths?
> If I happen upon an animal while in my pursuit of game and adventure that can sing "hello my Baby, Hello my Honey..Hello my ragtime gal..." do I capture it for fame and fortune...Pass it up as a sign of my humanity.....or just have frog legs?
> ...




I was just curious as to where people stood.

Meat is meat.  In a survival situation, sometimes human cadavers end up being meat as well.  Now killing a chimp for sport, even if they were plentiful and it was legal raises some interesting philosophical issues.  Hunting a wild chimp that hasn't been taught to communicate is one thing, but imagine capturing one, training it sign language, then explaining to it that you intend to hunt it down, kill it and eat, then releasing it with a 24 hr head start.   Perhaps you could train it how to use a weapon and provide it with one.  This scenario is entirely possible.  You could do a similar thing with a dolphin.  They have been taught to  operate a "keyboard" and can express complex ideas.  It would be a hard to arm them, though. That would be the pinnacle of sport hunting, no?   But is it right?   I don't know.  How would this scenario affect your humanity?


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

Ok.  Forget about for food. How about hunting them for their pelts (or skin in the case of dolphins)?  Or just shooting them for fun and letting them rot, like carp, gar or crows?


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## LJay (Jan 7, 2010)

Crows taste pretty good on the grill. Carp and Gar are also table fare.


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## Trizey (Jan 7, 2010)

What you're describing is a pet, regardless if it's a chimp or dog.  

I don't hunt or kill someone's pets.

Otherwise, I have no problem killing any animal.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

LJay said:


> Crows taste pretty good on the grill. Carp and Gar are also table fare.



True.  But it's perfectly acceptable for many to just leave them to rot.



Trizey said:


> What you're describing is a pet, regardless if it's a chimp or dog.
> 
> I don't hunt or kill someone's pets.
> 
> Otherwise, I have no problem killing any animal.



You keep a pet for companionship or for hunting.  I'm talking about capturing one and training it with the expressed purpose of hunting it.  But you do raise an interesting issue.  What if you trained some chimps as hunting beasts, say for helping to chase down a trained gorilla?  You might be able to hear them circling the gorilla back around like beagles circling a rabbit.


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## BPR (Jan 7, 2010)

QTurn said:


> I don't know sign language.  The chimp would be LOL....


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## earl (Jan 7, 2010)

I thought Vi eena sassages WAS monkey parts. They are great with Saltines.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

BPR said:


>



Yeah.  I agree, it's funny.  But what if the chimp was waving his arms and shaking his head, pleading for you not to kill him?


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

earl said:


> I thought Vi eena sassages WAS monkey parts. They are great with Saltines.



Come on Earl,  Stop trying to be cute.  There's some good discussion of ethics to be had here.


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## jigman29 (Jan 7, 2010)

I think it's no different than being able to kill a pet you have had for years.I think if you raise and train a hunting dog you should put it down in the outdoors where it was most happy,but some people don't have the mindset for it so I guess it's whatever you are comfortable doing.Me personally I would have no trouble shooting a chimp Because at the end of the day they are still an animal.I saw on the news where one in a cage that had been raised as a pet went crazy and ripped a mans face off and castrated him so I don't think they deserve the same respect as humans.If a human did that I think most people would shoot him as well.


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## BPR (Jan 7, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Yeah.  I agree, it's funny.  But what if the chimp was waving his arms and shaking his head, pleading for you not to kill him?



Always so serious.  

I agree with others that your scenario is more of a question of raising a pet and killing it.  

A dog may not be capable of sign language, but it is certainly capable of feelings and being trained.  I wouldn't raise and train a dog with the intent of "hunting" it.  However a coyote is part of the canine family and I have no problem killing a coyote.  

I wouldn't kill a pet, but I would kill _any _wild animal if the need arose.


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## tiger1996 (Jan 7, 2010)

Back when I was a teenager,I sometimes hunted whales after all the hot ones were gone home.Maybe a different kind than you are talkin bout??Good thing I grew out of it.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

BPR said:


> Always so serious.
> 
> I agree with others that your scenario is more of a question of raising a pet and killing it.
> 
> ...





jigman29 said:


> I think it's no different than being able to kill a pet you have had for years.I think if you raise and train a hunting dog you should put it down in the outdoors where it was most happy,but some people don't have the mindset for it so I guess it's whatever you are comfortable doing.Me personally I would have no trouble shooting a chimp Because at the end of the day they are still an animal.I saw on the news where one in a cage that had been raised as a pet went crazy and ripped a mans face off and castrated him so I don't think they deserve the same respect as humans.If a human did that I think most people would shoot him as well.



I don't mean a pet,  I mean train the chimp or gorilla to be an adversary.   Something that would truly be dangerous and elusive to hunt.  The reason you would teach it sign language is so that you could explain to it that you were going to release it in order to hunt it and kill it; so that it would understand the nature of your intentions towards it and that it is fighting for its life.

The chimp that went crazy was never taught how to sign.  If it had been taught sign language, I wonder what it might have said about why it attacked the man.


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## DeepweR (Jan 7, 2010)

earl said:


> I thought Vi eena sassages WAS monkey parts. They are great with Saltines.


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## DeepweR (Jan 7, 2010)

whens chimp season in ga? heck, i'll try it.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

deep'we R said:


> whens chimp season in ga? heck, i'll try it.




Would you rather hunt a wild chimp or one that was trained to use weapons and sign language; one that you could explain that you intend to kill it to?  Wouldn't that make him a better adversary?


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## DeepweR (Jan 7, 2010)

I'll hunt anything but wheres this going? what are you trying to get at?


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## mjfortner (Jan 7, 2010)

If its not endangered then I dont see a problem hunting them for food. It will taste the same weather it knows sign language or not. I do not believe animals should be hunted to extinction, but I do believe in feeding my family.


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## 12gamag (Jan 7, 2010)

finally found a recipe!! hey anyone want to try it for us???




KON-O-KWEE LUNCH   

8 green globs of greasy-grimy gopher guts
5 pieces of mutilated monkey meat
5 little dirty birdie feet
12 French fried eyeballs
2 gallons kerosene

Place gopher guts into microwave oven for 10 minutes on defrost. Puree mutilated monkey meat in food processor. Pour over greasy grimy golpher guts. Declaw little dirty birdie feet, do not wash. Cut up the little dirty birdie feet and use as finger foods. Garnish mixture with French fried eyeballs. Use kerosene as dressing. P.S. Don't use a spoon. Makes enough for Mr. S. (barely).


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## Bowyer29 (Jan 7, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> True.  But it's perfectly acceptable for many to just leave them to rot.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep a pet for companionship or for hunting.  I'm talking about capturing one and training it with the expressed purpose of hunting it.  But you do raise an interesting issue.  What if you trained some chimps as hunting beasts, say for helping to chase down a trained gorilla?  You might be able to hear them circling the gorilla back around like beagles circling a rabbit.



The entire premise of this topic is weird, and begs the question, What part of your humanity do you feel guilty about?


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## WilcoSportsman (Jan 7, 2010)

Why don't you just hunt a human being like in Most Dangerous Game?


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## kotchman (Jan 7, 2010)

Personally i couldn't kill a monkey, i've got a list of things that i just couldn't bring myself to kill (unless it was an emergancy) call it humantiy or tree hugger ethics but that's just me
My dad has a friend who is a guide up in Montana, one night he told us a story about how his friend shot a baboon in Africa. He said when he shot it (it was standing on two legs btw) it grabbed it's chest, looked down at the blood on it's palms,gave him a shocked look like 'you shot me', then fell over on his back and died...just like a person, said it scared the heck out of him


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## tiger1996 (Jan 7, 2010)

Good thing humans are not legal.Lots of people would probably pay big to hunt them.


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## BPR (Jan 7, 2010)

WilcoSportsman said:


> Why don't you just hunt a human being like in Most Dangerous Game?



I agree.  I'm having a hard time following this hypothetical ethical debate about a scenario where someone raises and trains a chimp for the sole purpose of hunting it one day.  Why not just hunt humans?


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## dtala (Jan 7, 2010)

A80, yer bored silly..right????


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## JoeyWommack (Jan 7, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Ok.  Forget about for food. How about hunting them for their pelts (or skin in the case of dolphins)?  Or just shooting them for fun and letting them rot, like carp, gar or crows?



Lord, I pray for the day that I can blast a dolphin.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

BPR said:


> I agree.  I'm having a hard time following this hypothetical ethical debate about a scenario where someone raises and trains a chimp for the sole purpose of hunting it one day.  Why not just hunt humans?



Because animals are different than humans.



dtala said:


> A80, yer bored silly..right????



Just asking questions.


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

kotchman said:


> Personally i couldn't kill a monkey, i've got a list of things that i just couldn't bring myself to kill (unless it was an emergancy) call it humantiy or tree hugger ethics but that's just me
> My dad has a friend who is a guide up in Montana, one night he told us a story about how his friend shot a baboon in Africa. He said when he shot it (it was standing on two legs btw) it grabbed it's chest, looked down at the blood on it's palms,gave him a shocked look like 'you shot me', then fell over on his back and died...just like a person, said it scared the heck out of him



Well, there you go.  Some people have lines they draw.  I just want to know where they are and how they got there.

Why did they shoot the baboon?


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## WTM45 (Jan 7, 2010)

JoeyWommack said:


> Lord, I pray for the day that I can blast a dolphin.



That's golden!


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## ambush80 (Jan 7, 2010)

balvarik said:


> _Why did they shoot the baboon?_
> 
> Because it is vermin to the locals over across the pond!
> 
> ...



That's really interesting.


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## Gentleman4561 (Jan 8, 2010)

If your going to use it i dont see a problem...saying that i have no use for a dead monkey so i wouldn't shoot one


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## Coastie (Jan 8, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Well, there you go.  Some people have lines they draw.  I just want to know where they are and how they got there.
> 
> Why did they shoot the baboon?



Baboons are and have been a terrible nuisance for farmers in Africa forever. They live in large groups that raid gardens and fields of corn that the people there depend on for food often devastating an entire crop within one or two nights. Women and children that historically have been responsible for tending the crops are regularly terrorized by the Baboons and hate them with a passion. Baboons have been known to attack people, particularly women, and can and occaisionally do kill them. Why the particular Baboon you ask about was killed cannot be answered by anyone other than the hunter that killed it. It is possible it was killed to be used as a bait for Leopard which they like  nearly as much as they do dog but that is pure speulation. The Disney channel and National Geographic rarely depict anything in a true sense, they only pick out the items that will highlight the point they want to make at the time and ignore the history and day to day problems people put up with when they live in close proximity to whatever it is that is the centerpiece of tonights show.


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## Sterlo58 (Jan 8, 2010)

tiger1996 said:


> Back when I was a teenager,I sometimes hunted whales after all the hot ones were gone home.Maybe a different kind than you are talkin bout??Good thing I grew out of it.



now that is funny


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## HOGDOG76 (Jan 8, 2010)

Great thread.i noticed the uproar over the horse being shot and i agree it was terrible in the sense that it was a pet/property.that said i think we should be able to hunt the ones on cumberland but wonder what kind of feedback we would receive from fellow hunters after reading many posts. I think many people attach a particular seniment to one species regardless of their being wild/feral/tame and the destruction they do


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## satchmo (Jan 8, 2010)

*most dangerous game*

Most dangerous game Man--atee


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## BPR (Jan 8, 2010)

satchmo said:


> Most dangerous game Man--atee





Must have hit a flipper and not got a good pass through.

Congrats on your trophy.


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## ambush80 (Jan 8, 2010)

HOGDOG76 said:


> Great thread.i noticed the uproar over the horse being shot and i agree it was terrible in the sense that it was a pet/property.that said i think we should be able to hunt the ones on cumberland but wonder what kind of feedback we would receive from fellow hunters after reading many posts. I think many people attach a particular seniment to one species regardless of their being wild/feral/tame and the destruction they do



I see a definite line of division.   There are those that think that an animal, no matter how intelligent is still an animal and thus appropriate to hunt.  Then there are those that make a distinction between Higher Primates and Cetaceans (I assume because of their demonstrated ability to express complex thoughts and emotions) and other animals. 

For food, particularly in a survival situation, meat is meat;  ANY and ALL meat. And vermin control is an issue that can be resolved by dispassionate reason.

For sport hunting, I'm not sure what I think.  I think it's sad to kill an animal that's capable of higher thought  but with some training, they might provide an exceptional adversary.   Isn't that the point of the "sport" part of sport hunting; a challenge?

The thing about the horse is interesting in regards to this issue as well.


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## Coastie (Jan 8, 2010)

There is not a whole lot of "Sport" hunting involved with the species you mention in the original post. I have never seen or heard of anybody going out on purpose to kill any of those species for "Sport", food yes, control of a predator of crops, yes, incidental loss due to the taking of another species (Dolphins) yes, but not for sport. I seriously doubt that anybody on this board would go out of their way to partake in a Baboon safari, hunt for Dolphins for any purpose or sign on as an AB (Able Bodied Seaman) on a whaling vessel. So just what is the point in this entire excercise in futility? We are hunters by choice and or instinct, why all of the hoopla about why we hunt and/or what we hunt. Our small arms instructor at my reserve unit years ago said that the last thing you need to hear from your partner just as you go through a door or step from your vessel onto a vessel on which you are conducting a boarding is "I found Jesus this morning, I don't think I can do this in good conscience anymore" Either you are a hunter or you aren't, make up your mind and proceed from there. Hang up your gun and get out of the woods or get down to business and kill something.


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## LJay (Jan 8, 2010)

Coastie said:


> There is not a whole lot of "Sport" hunting involved with the species you mention in the original post. I have never seen or heard of anybody going out on purpose to kill any of those species for "Sport", food yes, control of a predator of crops, yes, incidental loss due to the taking of another species (Dolphins) yes, but not for sport. I seriously doubt that anybody on this board would go out of their way to partake in a Baboon safari, hunt for Dolphins for any purpose or sign on as an AB (Able Bodied Seaman) on a whaling vessel. So just what is the point in this entire excercise in futility? We are hunters by choice and or instinct, why all of the hoopla about why we hunt and/or what we hunt. Our small arms instructor at my reserve unit years ago said that the last thing you need to hear from your partner just as you go through a door or step from your vessel onto a vessel on which you are conducting a boarding is "I found Jesus this morning, I don't think I can do this in good conscience anymore" Either you are a hunter or you aren't, make up your mind and proceed from there. Hang up your gun and get out of the woods or get down to business and kill something.


Yep!


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## ambush80 (Jan 8, 2010)

Coastie said:


> There is not a whole lot of "Sport" hunting involved with the species you mention in the original post. I have never seen or heard of anybody going out on purpose to kill any of those species for "Sport", food yes, control of a predator of crops, yes, incidental loss due to the taking of another species (Dolphins) yes, but not for sport. I seriously doubt that anybody on this board would go out of their way to partake in a Baboon safari, hunt for Dolphins for any purpose or sign on as an AB (Able Bodied Seaman) on a whaling vessel. So just what is the point in this entire excercise in futility? We are hunters by choice and or instinct, why all of the hoopla about why we hunt and/or what we hunt. Our small arms instructor at my reserve unit years ago said that the last thing you need to hear from your partner just as you go through a door or step from your vessel onto a vessel on which you are conducting a boarding is "I found Jesus this morning, I don't think I can do this in good conscience anymore" Either you are a hunter or you aren't, make up your mind and proceed from there. Hang up your gun and get out of the woods or get down to business and kill something.



Did you see that link to the baboon hunt?  Do you think any of those hunters viewed their hunt as a "sport hunt"?  People hunt for all kinds of reasons.  There's nothing wrong with discussing people's motives for hunting out in the open.  This is a hunting and discussion site after all.

Well, I sure love hunting but it's not a black and white issue for me, not many things are.   The "hoopla" is about trying to be a mindful, thoughtful person in all things that I do.   Apparently there are some people here who take issue with hunting Higher Primates or Cetaceans.  I'm not sure exactly where I stand on the issue.  I'm trying to get some feedback.  Don't just cover your eyes and ears.  Why not listen to what some of the people that don't think it's right to hunt chimps or whales, other than "because I just don't feel like it" have to say.  Why do they feel that way?  I would like to know.  I imagine that there are more people who feel that way that are afraid to express their thoughts.  What's the harm in encouraging them to share their thoughts?


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## ambush80 (Jan 8, 2010)

Gentleman4561 said:


> If your going to use it i dont see a problem...saying that i have no use for a dead monkey so i wouldn't shoot one



Not everybody feels that way.  Some people shoot carp just for fun.  It's not illegal.


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## DCOMP54 (Jan 8, 2010)

*I can't see shooting any of these!*

Bears, Elephants, Girraffe's, Monkey of any sort, Lions, tigers, leopard, jags. Musk ox, seals . a waist of time and money to me. Some must get off on walking up to anyone of these named animals / darwin extracts, and blasting them to smitherines.
Just cant see it. Baiting Bears is just as bad as Baiting deer or any othe species.
And NO I am not a tree hugger, bunny hugger . I have hunted for over 40 years , just dont get a connection with these or a fw more species. 
to each his own,


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## ambush80 (Jan 8, 2010)

DCOMP54 said:


> Bears, Elephants, Girraffe's, Monkey of any sort, Lions, tigers, leopard, jags. Musk ox, seals . a waist of time and money to me. Some must get off on walking up to anyone of these named animals / darwin extracts, and blasting them to smitherines.
> Just cant see it. Baiting Bears is just as bad as Baiting deer or any othe species.
> And NO I am not a tree hugger, bunny hugger . I have hunted for over 40 years , just dont get a connection with these or a fw more species.
> to each his own,



Why?  It's good to know why.


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## DCOMP54 (Jan 8, 2010)

*I just don't see*

Ambush , Nothing against you or anyone else , here. I have watched Curt Gowdy , American Sportsman, Fred Bear, and a few others from way back in my time, which is still young,lol. I just don't get it when a truck drives up to an elephant they get out , the guide and hunter walk up , , yep, he's the one. and Bam , Here's your Elephant . I know they do it because they can , and can afford it. I just choose to not watch it or wont ever participate in it. Now i would do a wilderbeast or something of that nature, to me thats a a 50 /50 sport. Bears  are baited up for most of the hunts on tv. a few are not but bears don't do anything for me either. I like watching them , but saw all i wanted in Alaska back in the mid /late 70's.
Just my preference is all. thats why I said to each his own. 
If you do  it or have done it, I am ok with it. 
Musk Ox just stand there and wait for you to Shoot it, Monkeys of sorts(big ones), Baboons included will kill you dead, not me i ain't going.
whales ,, leaves them alone too!  To many to go thru , I hope i have maybe explained a little .
Dennis


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## bigreddwon (Jan 8, 2010)

I try not to shoot anything with thumbs...


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## ambush80 (Jan 8, 2010)

DCOMP54 said:


> Ambush , Nothing against you or anyone else , here. I have watched Curt Gowdy , American Sportsman, Fred Bear, and a few others from way back in my time, which is still young,lol. I just don't get it when a truck drives up to an elephant they get out , the guide and hunter walk up , , yep, he's the one. and Bam , Here's your Elephant . I know they do it because they can , and can afford it. I just choose to not watch it or wont ever participate in it. Now i would do a wilderbeast or something of that nature, to me thats a a 50 /50 sport. Bears  are baited up for most of the hunts on tv. a few are not but bears don't do anything for me either. I like watching them , but saw all i wanted in Alaska back in the mid /late 70's.
> Just my preference is all. thats why I said to each his own.
> If you do  it or have done it, I am ok with it.
> Musk Ox just stand there and wait for you to Shoot it, Monkeys of sorts(big ones), Baboons included will kill you dead, not me i ain't going.
> ...



I appreciate your honesty.   It sounds like one of your main concerns is that the quarry be equally advantaged; "50/50 sport" as you said.  A chimpanzee trained to use a gun could be a worthy adversary, way more dangerous than a lion or cape buffalo. 



bigreddwon said:


> I try not to shoot anything with thumbs...



Why?


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## YOGIGATOR (Jan 8, 2010)

bigreddwon said:


> I try not to shoot anything with thumbs...



:


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## JoeyWommack (Jan 9, 2010)

Coastie said:


> I seriously doubt that anybody on this board would go out of their way to partake in a Baboon safari, hunt for Dolphins for any purpose or sign on as an AB (Able Bodied Seaman) on a whaling vessel.



I am on this board and would love to take out some dolphins.


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## dukedog1 (Jan 9, 2010)

Join the army. They will give you a chance to hunt and be hunted.


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## Sugar Plum (Jan 9, 2010)

> I'm talking about capturing one and training it with the expressed purpose of hunting it.







ambush80 said:


> The reason you would teach it sign language is so that you could explain to it that you were going to release it in order to hunt it and kill it; so that it would understand the nature of your intentions towards it and that it is fighting for its life.



Seems pretty messed up. I mean...what's the point? Why would you raise this animal, train it to "speak" then tell it you're going to hunt it down? Kinda sick if you ask me.


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## kotchman (Jan 9, 2010)

off topic, but i wonder how much it would cost to get a whale mounted


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2010)

CortGirl said:


> Seems pretty messed up. I mean...what's the point? Why would you raise this animal, train it to "speak" then tell it you're going to hunt it down? Kinda sick if you ask me.



It would be kind of sick to me too, but the point is if they are just animals and we can enjoy them for hunting, then what is the root of the issue with making them more a formidable quarry?

There seems to be an issue here that I cant' quite put my finger on.  A common position seems to be that they are animals and we have been granted dominion over them.  OK.  They are to be used by us as we see fit.  OK.  But, some people don't like that notion of training them to be better quarry.  I'm not sure I understand why.


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2010)

kotchman said:


> off topic, but i wonder how much it would cost to get a whale mounted



Some whales are only 3-4 feet long; some kind of pygmy dolphin I believe.  Should cost as much as a tarpon or amberjack of the same size.  I think the skin would be better used for boots or a handbag, though.


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## awr72 (Jan 9, 2010)

just exactly how many times is the scenario of hunting a trained chimp gonna come up in real world hunting situations?and further more ive watched shows of the chimps in the wild and they are ruthless hunters themselves ,as far as tribes that hunt the chimps monkeys baboons or whatever for food no prob with me.i would not hunt a animal if i knew it was endangered,but if had to survive so be it.i dont completely get where your going with this,but i will say ive raised hogs and such and they do get to know you but its still a food source.most people rather not know where their meat comes from but its a fact of life.


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## awr72 (Jan 9, 2010)

if ya want excitment go to africa and hunt a lion with a spear,we are on top of food chain as tool users but if we get caught off guard or without our tools we can be the next meal and or victim,just ask that man that was one with the bear remember that ?bear said hey im hungry and im a bear everyone acted all sorry for guy i dont he did that to himself and his girlfriend.just another protein source for a bear sad but true but they dont live to our standards just survival.


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## cathooker (Jan 9, 2010)

dukedog1 said:


> Join the army. They will give you a chance to hunt and be hunted.



Been there done that......

To answer the original question: I would have no problem hunting and killing an animal as you described IF I were hunting for food. 

An added thought...when you get hungry enough you will eat anything to try to stay alive up to and including an intelligent animal. Monkeys, dolphins, whales and people are table fare if I get hungry enough....


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## ambush80 (Jan 9, 2010)

awr72 said:


> just exactly how many times is the scenario of hunting a trained chimp gonna come up in real world hunting situations?and further more ive watched shows of the chimps in the wild and they are ruthless hunters themselves ,as far as tribes that hunt the chimps monkeys baboons or whatever for food no prob with me.i would not hunt a animal if i knew it was endangered,but if had to survive so be it.i dont completely get where your going with this,but i will say ive raised hogs and such and they do get to know you but its still a food source.most people rather not know where their meat comes from but its a fact of life.



I think if someone had enough money they could arrange for a  trained chimp hunt.  My question is would it be right or wrong and why.



cathooker said:


> Been there done that......
> 
> To answer the original question: I would have no problem hunting and killing an animal as you described IF I were hunting for food.
> 
> An added thought...when you get hungry enough you will eat anything to try to stay alive up to and including an intelligent animal. Monkeys, dolphins, whales and people are table fare if I get hungry enough....



I agree with you and stated it earlier: meat is meat.  What about hunting it for fun?


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## awr72 (Jan 9, 2010)

how does the owner trainer know the chimp wont hunt him knowledge is a dangerous thing,im thinkin monkey shines here lol


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## fwhitaker (Jan 10, 2010)

I think you are giving a little more credit to Chimps.  Yes, they are one of the more intelligent members of the animal kingdom, however, they are not quite that intelligent.

They have learned to sign, and you could very well teach them to operate a weapon.  However, they do not have an intelligent death concept.  They will flee a predator out of instinct, not because they fear death or ceasing to be.

So you will have to go back to the drawing board on your monkey hunting business.

Come join me on my Fly-Fish skeet shooting business! Kind of a trap shoot meets fishing on the open ocean.


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## Coastie (Jan 10, 2010)

An animal that could tear your arm off and beat you to death with the bloody stub doesn't need to be trained in the use of weapons. Add to that the 1 1/2 inch canines that they use for tearing things to bits (like the woman in Connecticut a year or so ago) and some degree of intelligence and you have a fairly serious competitor when it comes to fighting one off.


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## HandgunHTR (Jan 10, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> I don't mean a pet,  I mean train the chimp or gorilla to be an adversary.   Something that would truly be dangerous and elusive to hunt.  The reason you would teach it sign language is so that you could explain to it that you were going to release it in order to hunt it and kill it; so that it would understand the nature of your intentions towards it and that it is fighting for its life.
> 
> The chimp that went crazy was never taught how to sign.  If it had been taught sign language, I wonder what it might have said about why it attacked the man.



As fwhitaker has pointed out below, you are giving them way too much credit.  While chimps do display human-like tendencies, and can be taught sign-language, it has been proven over and over that they are not capable of cognizent thought at the level of humans.  They think in terms of basic needs, and that is it.  They do not have "conversations" in sign language.  They can answer basic questions related to what they have been taught or ask for what they need, but are not capable of doing mathmatics or reading or any of the other things that humans can do.





fwhitaker said:


> I think you are giving a little more credit to Chimps.  Yes, they are one of the more intelligent members of the animal kingdom, however, they are not quite that intelligent.
> 
> They have learned to sign, and you could very well teach them to operate a weapon.  However, they do not have an intelligent death concept.  They will flee a predator out of instinct, not because they fear death or ceasing to be.
> 
> So you will have to go back to the drawing board on your monkey hunting business.



As for "teaching it to be a better adversary" chimps and gorillas are quite capable in their own environment, even without "training".

No animal feels feelings like humans do, because no animals have the depths of conscienceness that we do.  Your dog rubs up against you because it has been trained that when it does it gets some sort of reward, like a pat on the head or a treat.  Your cat sits on your lap and purrs because it has been trained that when it does that you will pet it and thereby remove excess hair, which makes it feel better.  They are not capable of conscience thought, they do what they have been trained to do.  Whether that training was overt or not is beside the point.  Even down to wagging the tail.  It is a learned behavior.  If it were not, then wolves would do it, which they don't.

So, A80, while I have no foreseeable plans to go on a primate or dolphin hunt, I find no moral objection to killing them unless it is being done for malicious intent.


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## ambush80 (Jan 11, 2010)

HandgunHTR said:


> As fwhitaker has pointed out below, you are giving them way too much credit.  While chimps do display human-like tendencies, and can be taught sign-language, it has been proven over and over that they are not capable of cognizent thought at the level of humans.  They think in terms of basic needs, and that is it.  They do not have "conversations" in sign language.  They can answer basic questions related to what they have been taught or ask for what they need, but are not capable of doing mathmatics or reading or any of the other things that humans can do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure that comparing a dog to a chimp is accurate.

Instead of malice, what if you hunted them for fun?


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## dukedog1 (Jan 11, 2010)

Come join me on my Fly-Fish skeet shooting business! Kind of a trap shoot meets fishing on the open ocean.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Always wondered what that would be like and if I could get away with it.


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## ambush80 (Jan 12, 2010)

fwhitaker said:


> I think you are giving a little more credit to Chimps.  Yes, they are one of the more intelligent members of the animal kingdom, however, they are not quite that intelligent.
> 
> They have learned to sign, and you could very well teach them to operate a weapon.  However, they do not have an intelligent death concept.  They will flee a predator out of instinct, not because they fear death or ceasing to be.
> 
> ...



Have you seen the bowfishing for the Asian jumping carp?


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## chase870 (Jan 12, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Would you rather hunt a wild chimp or one that was trained to use weapons and sign language; one that you could explain that you intend to kill it to?  Wouldn't that make him a better adversary?



Well, I  wont waste the money on a chimp. There is a certian aspect of being a bail bondsman that I enjoy, the ability to use all the skills I learned at the Infantry school. Yes, if you can tune your prey up so it adds a bit more danger, do it. The more dangerous your prey is the harder and smarter you hunt. If you happen to see my chimp any where let me know, he is in the Buford Hwy area. Give me the info that helps me bag him and I'll pay you $2,000.00. Buy the way he doesnt use sign language and he knows how to use a weapon


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## chase870 (Jan 12, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> Ok.  Forget about for food. How about hunting them for their pelts (or skin in the case of dolphins)?  Or just shooting them for fun and letting them rot, like carp, gar or crows?



let um rot nothing wrong with it the ditch monster needs to eat too. we use alot of crows as yote bait, hate to let them go to waste


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## Throwback (Jan 12, 2010)

We really do need the apocalypse to go ahead and happen if this is all we have to worry about. 

T


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## TJay (Jan 13, 2010)

dtala said:


> A80, yer bored silly..right????



Man you can sure tell huntin season is over, huh?


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## ambush80 (Jan 13, 2010)

TJay said:


> Man you can sure tell huntin season is over, huh?




I never stop thinking.


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## LJay (Jan 13, 2010)

ambush80 said:


> It would be kind of sick to me too, but the point is if they are just animals and we can enjoy them for hunting, then what is the root of the issue with making them more a formidable quarry?
> 
> There seems to be an issue here that I cant' quite put my finger on.  A common position seems to be that they are animals and we have been granted dominion over them.  OK.  They are to be used by us as we see fit.  OK.  But, some people don't like that notion of training them to be better quarry.  I'm not sure I understand why.


Sounds like you would like to hunt other armed people. Would that make a formidable quarry?


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## ambush80 (Jan 13, 2010)

LJay said:


> Sounds like you would like to hunt other armed people. Would that make a formidable quarry?


 

That would be the most formidable quarry.  I have no interest in hunting humans for sport.  

People have boundaries.  Even amongst hunters there is discrepancy on what is ethical and moral when it comes to reasons to hunt.   I took the most extreme scenario of sport hunting for animals, hunting a trained chimp, to see what people's positions would be. I was hoping for more detailed explanation as to why someone might find such a pursuit unethical or immoral but I guess it's very personal.


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## florida boy (Jan 20, 2010)

I would pay good money to get to kill as many dolphins as I could in one day ! They are overpopulated and will ruin a good snapper bite !


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## THWACKG5 (Jan 22, 2010)

This is one wierd thread!!!!!!!


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