# Can a Deacon quit?



## Wetzel

Can a Deacon ever stop being a Deacon?  If he continues to be active in the church, but doesn't want to be held responsible for the duties of a Deacon in that church, how does he quit?  Does he ask to be put on an inactive deacon list or must he resign as deacon all together?

Anyone have a clue?


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## WTM45

This question was asked yesterday, and the thread was held unil the re-opening of the forum.
Thanks, Wetzel, for your patience!


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## PWalls

A deacon is not just a man that the Church wants to run the finance committee. A deacon is more than that. I believe a deacon can tell the pastor that he doesn't want to chair the finance committee anymore and ask to find another deacon to do it. But, the other roles/duties of a deacon are for life. "Inactive Deacon" should not be a combination of words that means anything. Kinda like "Liberal Christian".


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## pigpen1

A deacon can step down from office, just as a Pastor can resign the position Pastor. This does not mean that they quit the work of the Lord, but just as a official in that local assembly.


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## christianhunter

I agree deacons are charged before the Church and ordained.You live your life,in a manner so that The Light Of THE LORD shines through you.All believers should live this way also.True believers cannot just take a break,not to mention those holding an office.That being said,if they are caught in habitual sin and will not cease,they may be asked to step down.They are still a deacon though.


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## pigpen1

They can also be removed if they do not hold up to the Biblical qualifications.


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## ddd-shooter

As an offshoot, how did so many of the deacons in todays churches get away from the "Biblical Qualifications?"


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## Ronnie T

pigpen1 said:


> A deacon can step down from office, just as a Pastor can resign the position Pastor. This does not mean that they quit the work of the Lord, but just as a official in that local assembly.



Agree.

A deacon is chosen for a specific reason.  Or should be.
One is not selected to the job of deacon for life.
Although he might if it serves the work of the Lord.

You're only a pastor if you're pastoring a church.
You're only a deacon if you have been chosen to serve in that specific role.


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## Ronnie T

And just because a person is no longer working as a deacon doesn't mean they've stopped doing the Lord's work.


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## Jeff Phillips

A Deacon is ordained for life.

The churches where I have served rotate, usually on a 3 year cycle, 3 on and at least 1 off, on the "active Deacons". If there are job or family related issues you may ask to be removed from the active list.

I am a Deacon forever, I am currently not "active", but will serve EVERY time I am asked.


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## pigpen1

ddd-shooter said:


> As an offshoot, how did so many of the deacons in todays churches get away from the "Biblical Qualifications?"



 Because  most Churches no longer practice Church discipline and many do not follow the qualifications in the first place. Most churches pick someone just because they come to church regular. They don't look at the example given in Acts, they chose Men that were filled with the Holy Ghost.


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## christianhunter

pigpen1 said:


> Because  most Churches no longer practice Church discipline and many do not follow the qualifications in the first place. Most churches pick someone just because they come to church regular. They don't look at the example given in Acts, they chose Men that were filled with the Holy Ghost.



Amen Brother.Stephen and the other 6 that were chosen with him were filled with THE HOLY SPIRIT.Then the 70 that were chosen for Moses,were filled along with two others that were sitting aside.They were all filled with THE HOLY SPIRIT.


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## Ruger#3

My Father in Law was just ordained in the Episcopal church. It took him almost a year to prepare before his ordination. You raise and interesting question, I'll have to ask him personally but this is what I found online.

"If any Deacon of this Church not subject to the provisions of Canon IV.8 shall declare, in writing, to the Bishop of the Diocese in which such Deacon is canonically resident, a renunciation of the ordained Ministry of this Church, and a desire to be removed there from, it shall be the duty of the Bishop to record the declaration and request so made. The Bishop, being satisfied that the person so declaring is not subject to the provision of Canon IV.8 but is acting voluntarily and for causes, assigned or known, which do not affect the Deacon's moral character, shall lay the matter before the clerical members of the Standing Committee, and with the advice and consent of a majority of such members the Bishop may pronounce that such renunciation is accepted, and that the Deacon is released from the obligations of the Ministerial office, and is deprived of the right to exercise the gifts and spiritual authority as a Minister of God's Word and Sacraments conferred in Ordination. The Bishop shall also declare in pronouncing and recording such action that it was for causes which do not affect the person's moral character, and shall, if desired, give a certificate to this effect to the person so removed from the ordained Ministry.

In the case of the renunciation of the ordained Ministry by a Deacon as provided in this Canon, a declaration of removal shall be pronounced by the Bishop in the presence of two or more Members of the Clergy, and shall be entered in the official records of the Diocese in which the Deacon being removed is canonically resident. The Bishop who pronounces the declaration of removal as provided in this Canon shall give notice thereof in writing to every Member of the Clergy, each Vestry, the Secretary of the Convention and the Standing Committee of the Diocese in which the Deacon was canonically resident; and to all Bishops of this Church, the Ecclesiastical Authority of each Diocese of this Church, the Presiding Bishop, the Recorder of Ordinations, the Secretary of the House of Bishops, the Secretary of the House of Deputies, The Church Pension Fund, and the Board for Church Deployment."


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## rjcruiser

Wetzel said:
			
		

> Can a Deacon ever stop being a Deacon? If he continues to be active in the church, but doesn't want to be held responsible for the duties of a Deacon in that church, how does he quit? Does he ask to be put on an inactive deacon list or must he resign as deacon all together?



Why does he want to quit/resign?  I understand that there might be family issues or time issues, and if that is the case, he should talk to the Pastor and the elder/deacon board and ask them to accept his resignation.  

I don't think there is such a thing as "Inactive" deacon.  That is a made up term that I've seen do extreme harm to the church.




ddd-shooter said:


> As an offshoot, how did so many of the deacons in todays churches get away from the "Biblical Qualifications?"



Hmmm...I'll speak for the denomination that I'm a part of.  Many SBC church's want to run the church more like a business than a church.  Therefore, deacons are more like executive boards and you get voted in based on your status in the church and the man made traditions that the church has come to rely on (found in the back of the baptist hymnal)



Ronnie T said:


> Agree.
> 
> A deacon is chosen for a specific reason.  Or should be.
> One is not selected to the job of deacon for life.
> Although he might if it serves the work of the Lord.
> 
> You're only a pastor if you're pastoring a church.
> You're only a deacon if you have been chosen to serve in that specific role.



Not sure if I agree with that.  Most deacons in today's church act as elders.  When you look at the role of elders and the word used in the NT, the word for Elder is a Pastor/Teacher.  They are to be interchangeable and I don't think you can separate the two.  In other words, if you're an elder, you should be able to preach on a Sunday morning.  If you can't do that, you shouldn't be an Elder.



Jeff Phillips said:


> A Deacon is ordained for life.
> 
> The churches where I have served rotate, usually on a 3 year cycle, 3 on and at least 1 off, on the "active Deacons". If there are job or family related issues you may ask to be removed from the active list.
> 
> I am a Deacon forever, I am currently not "active", but will serve EVERY time I am asked.



Active/Inactive?  Where is that in the Bible?


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## deerstand

my dad was a deacon, i say was because he passed away in 89. when my parents divorced he felt he could no longer fill that role, but the church and his fellow deacons still treated him as a deacon of the church. being a  deacon isnt a position of authority, but a servant to the church, although in our church only deacons were allowed to vote on certain matters.usually money and business, but then that must be approved by the church.


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## WTM45

As disagreements can and do happen between churches and memberships, regardless of denomination, how should it be handled if a deacon left one congregation and joined another.
For whatever reason, outside of something illegal or unethical.

Is he still a deacon?  Should they automatically be given the responsibility at the new congregation?


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## rjcruiser

WTM45 said:


> As disagreements can and do happen between churches and memberships, regardless of denomination, how should it be handled if a deacon left one congregation and joined another.
> For whatever reason, outside of something illegal or unethical.
> 
> Is he still a deacon?  Should they automatically be given the responsibility at the new congregation?



That is the problem with most churches today.  They don't have a Biblical church government.  Should be run by elders...not the membership.  Yes...the pastor is an elder...but his vote is no more powerful than the lay elder that sits next to him.

When you get the membership voting, you get a mob rule.  Never seen the church more crowded than when their's a business meeting and a pastor who has ticked off the good ole' boys that are all "inactive" deacons.  When you get the membership in charge, you've got people who are unqualified and probably many unsaved making decisions for the church.  All they care about is making sure they still have the power.

There are qualifications for elders/pastors and there are qualifications for deacons.  The elders/pastors are to make the decisions and the deacons are to serve.


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## PWalls

WTM45 said:


> Is he still a deacon?  Should they automatically be given the responsibility at the new congregation?



Once you are ordained, I beleive that is a life-long committment. In my mind you are still a deacon if you choose to go to another church other than the one that ordained you. That other church may want to re-ordain you as purely ceremonial for them.


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## WTM45

Do Baptist churches still issue membership letters?  I know I have one from years back, from a previous move.
And, should that letter contain information about the person and their previous role/position in the church?


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## PWalls

WTM45 said:


> Do Baptist churches still issue membership letters?  I know I have one from years back, from a previous move.
> And, should that letter contain information about the person and their previous role/position in the church?



Yeah, there are letters. I don't think I have ever seen one though to tell you what actually is on it. I assume some sort of testimonial from the church about the member is on there.


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## Paymaster

WTM45 said:


> Do Baptist churches still issue membership letters?  I know I have one from years back, from a previous move.
> And, should that letter contain information about the person and their previous role/position in the church?



Ours does. And the letter would state the person's standing in the Church. It would also state that the person was an Ordained Deacon if that is the case.


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## Jeffriesw

Great thread folk's, Most of this I had no clue about.


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## Country_Girl

Hey, y'all!    Haven't read all the posts, but enough to get a feel for the water before jumping on in.  



Wetzel said:


> Can a Deacon ever stop being a Deacon?  If he continues to be active in the church, but doesn't want to be held responsible for the duties of a Deacon in that church, how does he quit?  Does he ask to be put on an inactive deacon list or must he resign as deacon all together?
> 
> Anyone have a clue?


  I can only answer this according to how we would handle this.... I am a member of the Lord's Church... non-denominational Christian.  As far as I know, a Deacon has just as much right to step down from his duties as an Elder would.  We don't have "inactive" men in leadership roles.  Here, you would set up a meeting with the Elders to discuss the matter and  come to terms with the decision (depending on the reason), and maybe draw up some sort of statement of resignation to be read to the congregation.  



pigpen1 said:


> A deacon can step down from office, just as a Pastor can resign the position Pastor. This does not mean that they quit the work of the Lord, but just as a official in that local assembly.


  That's exactly right.  We've had 2 Elders step down this year - one for health reasons, and 1 for long-distance family obligations that kept them "out of touch" with the congregation's need for longer than he felt was "fair" for the people he was supposed to be serving.  Both are still very active as members when they are able, even though they don't have the responsiblities of an Elder anymore.  



ddd-shooter said:


> As an offshoot, how did so many of the deacons in todays churches get away from the "Biblical Qualifications?"


 Personal preference.  Many denominations have "Burger King-ed" their teachings to suit their personal preferences... but there may also be an issue of not having "completely" qualified men willing to serve in such an important role.  Maybe they decide to choose new leaders based on which ones are "most" qualified when there aren't any who are "completely" qualified?? 



WTM45 said:


> As disagreements can and do happen between churches and memberships, regardless of denomination, how should it be handled if a deacon left one congregation and joined another.
> For whatever reason, outside of something illegal or unethical.
> 
> Is he still a deacon?  Should they automatically be given the responsibility at the new congregation?


  Every congregation is its own entity.  Should a deacon leave one congregration and choose to be a deacon at a new one, the process would pretty much start all over again to get him installed.  If the new congregation is being led right, the Elders would contact the Elders from the previous congregation to find out if the break was on good terms or not before making any decisions.

OK... my feet are in the water now.... Be nice!


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## Jeff Phillips

rjcruiser said:


> Active/Inactive?  Where is that in the Bible?



It ain't in there, but that is the way most churches do it.

The Bible does not say that the job can not be shared with other men, or that the same guys have to do it all the time either.


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## rjcruiser

Jeff Phillips said:


> It ain't in there, but that is the way most churches do it.
> 
> The Bible does not say that the job can not be shared with other men, or that the same guys have to do it all the time either.



I know it ain't in there.  Just sounds like an oxymoron to me that is done out of tradition, not anything more.


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## post450

rjcruiser said:


> That is the problem with most churches today.  They don't have a Biblical church government.  Should be run by elders...not the membership.  Yes...the pastor is an elder...but his vote is no more powerful than the lay elder that sits next to him.
> 
> When you get the membership voting, you get a mob rule.  Never seen the church more crowded than when their's a business meeting and a pastor who has ticked off the good ole' boys that are all "inactive" deacons.  When you get the membership in charge, you've got people who are unqualified and probably many unsaved making decisions for the church.  All they care about is making sure they still have the power.
> 
> There are qualifications for elders/pastors and there are qualifications for deacons.  The elders/pastors are to make the decisions and the deacons are to serve.



Right on RJ!


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## Ronnie T

I'd much rather keep our discussions to what the Bible says/tells/expects from us.
Does it actually make sense to claim that the Bible says deacons are chosen for specific duties but that's not the way WE do it?

Country Girl, I think you and I have a lot in common.  I wholly agree with your very biblical response.

RJ, I agree with you.
To me, the Bible speaks of each church having Deacons, Elders(also called Pastors), and a preacher(also called Evangalist).

Elders, Deacons, a preacher.

1.  Elders/Pastors are the shephards of the flock.  The leaders.
2.  Deacons serve in various roles as needed(such as feeding widows).
3.  Preachers preach the Gospel(fulltime or parttime.)

In most churches, the Pastor is actually only the preacher.


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## Lowjack

Wetzel said:


> Can a Deacon ever stop being a Deacon?  If he continues to be active in the church, but doesn't want to be held responsible for the duties of a Deacon in that church, how does he quit?  Does he ask to be put on an inactive deacon list or must he resign as deacon all together?
> 
> Anyone have a clue?


Sure ! Why Not ?


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## Wetzel

rjcruiser said:


> Why does he want to quit/resign?


Thanks for all the replies. Good reading folks...


Pretty long story, but I'll try to give you the condensed version.

Preacher made several errors/contradictions in pulpit while preaching on a number of occasions. Deacons had a private talk with him. Pride got the best of preacher and he turned it into a circus during a Sunday mornings service and ended up walking out. Congregation pretty much saying deacons should follow the preacher regardless of what he says. The deacon says that it is every members responsiblility to stand behind the gospel; not hang on every word from the preacher if what the preacher is preaching does not follow Gods word.. 


Pretty hard to serve in a church that doesn't want to follow Gods word and then the congregation doesn't want you to ask questions when something is being preached that doesn't follow the gospel.


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## Wetzel

WTM45 said:


> This question was asked yesterday, and the thread was held unil the re-opening of the forum.
> Thanks, Wetzel, for your patience!


No problem...

Thanks for getting us up and going again....


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## WTM45

Wetzel said:


> No problem...
> 
> Thanks for getting us up and going again....



Oh, I can not take the credit for anything.  

Woody deserves all the credit for us being able to be here.
I'm only committed to his legacy, and to be the type of person he was.  
What he started should continue in the same spirit with which he lived his life and treated his friends.  
I'm a lesser man for never having the honor of meeting him, or getting to know him personally.


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## ddd-shooter

Wetzel said:


> Pretty hard to serve in a church that doesn't want to follow Gods word and then the congregation doesn't want you to ask questions when something is being preached that doesn't follow the gospel.



Find a new church. If the gospel is not being preached, its not where you should be. 
Sadly, there is a lot of this going on these days, usually when I hear of it, it is a deacon-led church caught up in tradition or doesn't want any pot-stirring that leads up to the split.


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## Wetzel

ddd-shooter said:


> Find a new church. If the gospel is not being preached, its not where you should be.
> Sadly, there is a lot of this going on these days, usually when I hear of it, it is a deacon-led church caught up in tradition or doesn't want any pot-stirring that leads up to the split.


My family has a long history with this church or I would have probably already moved onto another church.

The real problems started with the preacher that just quit.  After only being there a couple months, he started trying to change the way things had been done for years.  Basically trying to change our church into a copy of the church he grew up in.  I really don't feel that he had a great enough understandign of scipture to be a church leader. Sadly, some of our members were easily convinced that the congregations responibility was to follow the preacher no matter what.  Some seemed willing to blindly follow him almost cult like. I feel that since he is now gone, perhaps things will get better although it may take time.


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## ddd-shooter

Well, I mean this sincerely, but how did such a man get into the church? 

Don't take this badly but family tradition is not a good reason to stay in a church that isn't feeding you the bread of life, IMO.
But I do know how it is at a church that your family has a history of attending.


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## THREEJAYS

PWalls said:


> Once you are ordained, I beleive that is a life-long committment. In my mind you are still a deacon if you choose to go to another church other than the one that ordained you. That other church may want to re-ordain you as purely ceremonial for them.



agreed


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## Wetzel

ddd-shooter said:


> Well, I mean this sincerely, but how did such a man get into the church?


I think my church was in to big of a hurry to get a preacher.  We, me included, didn't take the time to really check this guy out with his former churches.  We believed what he told us and it went from there.  The guy was likeable enough, just wasn't willing to or perhaps he was just unable to perform to the standards expected from a person in the position.


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## Israel

Some things are better left undone.
Especially if the first things aren't.
Or, sometimes we need to go back and do the first things again.


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## Lowjack

We License our Deacons ,first for a trial Period of 1 year, if the congregation recommends them after 1 year they become licensed for 5 years , after 5 years they are considered licensed for life.
But they can resign the position at any time, they wish.


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## Ronnie T

I think this subject has proved it once again............
There is no uniformity in Christ's church in regard to Deacons.
We take our opinions and turn them into scripture.


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## PWalls

Ronnie T said:


> I think this subject has proved it once again............
> There is no uniformity in Christ's church in regard to Deacons.
> We take our opinions and turn them into scripture.



That is because there is how many different denominations of Christ's Church? I don't think our opinion over-rides Scripture more so than we interpret Scripture to our comfort level and stop there instead of having the patience to rightly divide the Word.


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## PWalls

Ronnie T said:


> Elders, Deacons, a preacher.
> 
> 1.  Elders/Pastors are the shephards of the flock.  The leaders.
> 2.  Deacons serve in various roles as needed(such as feeding widows).
> 3.  Preachers preach the Gospel(fulltime or parttime.)
> 
> In most churches, the Pastor is actually only the preacher.



Ronnie, where is the qualifications in Scripture for those three separate offices. I know Timothy speaks of the qualifications for a Bishop/Pastor and for a Deacon. Where do you get three roles from?


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## Ronnie T

PWalls said:


> Ronnie, where is the qualifications in Scripture for those three separate offices. I know Timothy speaks of the qualifications for a Bishop/Pastor and for a Deacon. Where do you get three roles from?



I won't have time to answer this until Monday but I'll sure try to remember to.


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## PWalls

Ronnie T said:


> I won't have time to answer this until Monday but I'll sure try to remember to.



Understand Brother. I have been busy all weekend with VBS.


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## Ronnie T

*Church leadership*

Pwall, I hope you don't mind me giving a web site.
It'll save me a lot of typing.

Primarily, I think the Bible teaches that churches should have a plurality of elders/pastors and they are actually chosen from the people of the congregation.
The idea of a man chosing to get a Bible degree, then move to an unknown location to become a pastor seems to contridict what the Bible contains.
Pastors were chosen from among the locals.

Go here:       http://executableoutlines.com/cjb/cjb_09.htm


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## Country_Girl

PWalls said:


> Ronnie, where is the qualifications in Scripture for those three separate offices. I know Timothy speaks of the qualifications for a Bishop/Pastor and for a Deacon. Where do you get three roles from?




For Elders... Titus 1 and 1 Tim. 3
For Deacons... 1 Tim. 3 and the first few vss. of Acts 6
For Preachers... 2 Tim. 2:14-26; 2 Tim. 4:1-8

Deacons in our congregation are viewed as "Elders in training".  They are to be scripturally qualified to fulfill both roles, when they are spiritually mature enough to become an Elder.

Our preacher is only a preacher.  He is overseen by the Elders.


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## Country_Girl

Wetzel said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Good reading folks...
> 
> Pretty long story, but I'll try to give you the condensed version.
> 
> Preacher made several errors/contradictions in pulpit while preaching on a number of occasions. Deacons had a private talk with him. Pride got the best of preacher and he turned it into a circus during a Sunday mornings service and ended up walking out. Congregation pretty much saying deacons should follow the preacher regardless of what he says. The deacon says that it is every members responsiblility to stand behind the gospel; not hang on every word from the preacher if what the preacher is preaching does not follow Gods word..
> 
> Pretty hard to serve in a church that doesn't want to follow Gods word and then the congregation doesn't want you to ask questions when something is being preached that doesn't follow the gospel.



Oh, my....... I'll bet that was quite an interesting service!  Too bad the preacher seemed to be more determined to cause trouble than to lead worship.

My question here is this:  Where are the Elders in all of this?  It is *their* responsibility to be sure that the flock is being taught right.  Have they not seen fit to discuss this with this preacher?

I would encourage this deacon who actually had sense enough to stand up against the misteachings to meet with the Elders in private to discuss this.  Either they agree to have a chat with preacher and try to get him back on the right track, or he needs to go!  The deacon.... oh, bless his heart!!... I will be praying for him to have enough strength to stay a deacon!   

Your deacon is RIGHT, and I am just appalled at how the congregation seems to be handling this!  Sounds to me like your congregation needs to brush up on 1 Thess. 5:21!!  BIG time!!!

Stand beside him and encourage him.  Deacons and Elders are part of the family, too... and they need us when things get tough, just like any other member would.  He's standing up against the flock being misled, and he needs to know he is not alone!


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## Country_Girl

Wetzel said:


> My family has a long history with this church or I would have probably already moved onto another church.
> 
> The real problems started with the preacher that just quit.  After only being there a couple months, he started trying to change the way things had been done for years.  Basically trying to change our church into a copy of the church he grew up in.  I really don't feel that he had a great enough understandign of scipture to be a church leader. Sadly, some of our members were easily convinced that the congregations responibility was to follow the preacher no matter what.  Some seemed willing to blindly follow him almost cult like. I feel that since he is now gone, perhaps things will get better although it may take time.



Change isn't always a "bad" thing, as long as the changes are all still scriptural.  But I do know what you mean... we have members here that have done things the same way for "more'n 30 years", and they're comfortable in the "routine" of it all.  



ddd-shooter said:


> Well, I mean this sincerely, but how did such a man get into the church?
> 
> Don't take this badly but family tradition is not a good reason to stay in a church that isn't feeding you the bread of life, IMO.
> But I do know how it is at a church that your family has a history of attending.



Yeah, I agree.  Family history is nice, but places change over time just like people do.  I know it'd be sad and pretty hard to do, but if your church home is no longer scripturally sound, you need to leave.  You are just as responsible for your spirituality as the ones who are supposed to be leading you.


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## Country_Girl

Ronnie T said:


> Country Girl, I think you and I have a lot in common.  I wholly agree with your very biblical response.


  I consider that a very big compiment, so... thank you very much!   

Very nice to meet y'all, by they way....


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## Free Willie

Ruger#3 said:


> My Father in Law was just ordained in the Episcopal church. It took him almost a year to prepare before his ordination.



A WHOLE year? Wow!

Was that a solid year of preperation and classes such as every day going to class or did he just have to go to class on weekends? Or was there any classes at all he had to take...just curious.


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## Free Willie

Country_Girl said:


> Lord's Church... non-denominational Christian.



Just curious...is this the name of the church you attend or how you personally feel your church ranks in the hierarchial ladder of importance?


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## Wetzel

Country_Girl said:


> My question here is this:  Where are the Elders in all of this?  It is *their* responsibility to be sure that the flock is being taught right.  Have they not seen fit to discuss this with this preacher?


I can't even tell you who the elders are in my church, and I've been going there for years.  I attend a very small church.  The folks that I think of as elders are either incapable of understanding what really is going on; that is, most of them are older members and either have a hard time hearing/following the sermon, or just don't pay enough attention to know what is really being said.  





Country_Girl said:


> Yeah, I agree.  Family history is nice, but places change over time just like people do.  I know it'd be sad and pretty hard to do, but if your church home is no longer scripturally sound, you need to leave.  You are just as responsible for your spirituality as the ones who are supposed to be leading you.


I hate for it to come to this, but it may be the only option.  With small children, I feel responible that when we go to church, they are being taught from the Bible, not some guys interpretation of it.


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## rjcruiser

Wetzel said:


> With small children, I feel responible that when we go to church, they are being taught from the Bible, not some guys interpretation of it.



I grew up in a great church, great youth pastors...great college pastors...great senior pastor.  Went to that church until I was 23 and moved to this great state.

I have to say, the person I learned the most from spiritually was none other than my Dad.  Yes, church is important, but remember, you're the spiritual leader of your family and they will always look to you for guidance.

May the Lord guide you through this difficult time and may this trial be a stepping stone and not a stumbling block.


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## Country_Girl

Free Willie said:


> Just curious...is this the name of the church you attend or how you personally feel your church ranks in the hierarchial ladder of importance?


  Church of Christ is the name of the family I belong to... and yes, we are all family once we accept to become one of the Lord's children.  We are of no denomination based on someone's personal preference somewhere along the way to suit their comfort zone.  Toes tend to get "stomped on" sometimes because... well... because what man feels comfortable with and what God wants us to be are sometimes two very different things. (Surprise, surprise!   LOL) 

Our goal is to as closely resemble the original New Testament Church as Jesus was here to establish it.  It is all in the scriptures.  We believe in full immersion for the remission of sins, partake in the Lord's Supper every Sunday, the entire congregation sings during worship with no music, and we have a lot of in-depth Bible studies.  We are challenged to be responsible for making sure we are being "taught right", and to "look it up" for ourselves, instead of just being an audience that takes our teacher's word as Gold.  No hierarchial ladder here.... God is the Head, and we are the Body, and that is the only hierarchy there should be.



Wetzel said:


> I can't even tell you who the elders are in my church, and I've been going there for years.  I attend a very small church.  The folks that I think of as elders are either incapable of understanding what really is going on; that is, most of them are older members and either have a hard time hearing/following the sermon, or just don't pay enough attention to know what is really being said.
> 
> I hate for it to come to this, but it may be the only option.  With small children, I feel responsible that when we go to church, they are being taught from the Bible, not some guys interpretation of it.



This is really very sad.... not paying attention to how the flock is being led?  You are right to feel responsible for your children's teachings... that is your duty as the head of your household.  You are an Isaiah, my friend.... Stand firm and hold fast to the true Word!  



rjcruiser said:


> I grew up in a great church, great youth pastors...great college pastors...great senior pastor.  Went to that church until I was 23 and moved to this great state.
> 
> I have to say, the person I learned the most from spiritually was none other than my Dad.  Yes, church is important, but remember, you're the spiritual leader of your family and they will always look to you for guidance.
> 
> May the Lord guide you through this difficult time and may this trial be a stepping stone and not a stumbling block.


  X2 and Amen!  No stumbling blocks allowed!


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## rjcruiser

Country_Girl said:


> Our goal is to as closely resemble the original New Testament Church as Jesus was here to establish it.  It is all in the scriptures.  We believe in full immersion for the remission of sins, partake in the Lord's Supper every Sunday, the entire congregation sings during worship with no music, and we have a lot of in-depth Bible studies.  We are challenged to be responsible for making sure we are being "taught right", and to "look it up" for ourselves, instead of just being an audience that takes our teacher's word as Gold.  No hierarchial ladder here.... God is the Head, and we are the Body, and that is the only hierarchy there should be.




Oh boy....I'm doing everything in my power not to hi-jack this thread....the temptation....I can resist.....


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## Free Willie

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....I'm doing everything in my power not to hi-jack this thread....the temptation....I can resist.....



You and me both, brother....you and me both.


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## Jeffriesw

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....I'm doing everything in my power not to hi-jack this thread....the temptation....I can resist.....





Free Willie said:


> You and me both, brother....you and me both.




I will,

Free Willie, That avatar of yours is just special, Really brings your attention to the life of one so small.

Alright enough Hi-Jackage, back to our regulary scheduled program.


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## Country_Girl

rjcruiser said:


> Oh boy....I'm doing everything in my power not to hi-jack this thread....the temptation....I can resist.....





Free Willie said:


> You and me both, brother....you and me both.



Oh, let me guess..... now you think I'm some sort of cult freak with a shaved head living in a commune and passing out flowers in the middle of busy intersections or something.  Puh-lease..... 

No hi-jacking here............ A person who is supposed to be a spiritual leader jeopardizing your salvation is serious business!!


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## ddd-shooter

I just wonder why no music??? sorry if thats off topic...


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## rjcruiser

Country_Girl said:


> Oh, let me guess..... now you think I'm some sort of cult freak with a shaved head living in a commune and passing out flowers in the middle of busy intersections or something.  Puh-lease.....
> 
> No hi-jacking here............ A person who is supposed to be a spiritual leader jeopardizing your salvation is serious business!!



Nope...has nothing to do with that.  And from your avatar, I can see that you don't have a shaved head...unless you're the one with the short hair and big ears j/k


I was referring to the baptism by immersion being required for salvation.  Do a search on that one and you'll find it was pretty well debated topic last summer around this time.

okay....i'm done hi-jacking.

oh..btw, freewillie was probably going to mention something like the fact that the Catholic church was the only true church as it was there from the beginning

don't worry, it won't take you too long to know everyone's push button issues


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## Country_Girl

Let's see if the blue is any better....



rjcruiser said:


> Nope...has nothing to do with that.  And from your avatar, I can see that you don't have a shaved head...unless you're the one with the short hair and big ears j/k  LOL  No, I'm sure not as purty as that floppy-eared baby doll!
> 
> I was referring to the baptism by immersion being required for salvation.  Do a search on that one and you'll find it was pretty well debated topic last summer around this time.  Hmmm... I may have to look that one up.  Is it still here somewhere?  I always thought I was doing the right thing, just trying to float along in the scriptures and be a good person.... until I did a Bible study.  OY!  What an eye opener!
> okay....i'm done hi-jacking.
> 
> oh..btw, freewillie was probably going to mention something like the fact that the Catholic church was the only true church as it was there from the beginning Ah.  I see... Not going there.
> 
> don't worry, it won't take you too long to know everyone's push button issues Oh, joy.... Is it possible to find this stuff out without being skinned alive first??    LOL


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## rjcruiser

Country_Girl said:


> No, I'm sure not as purty as that floppy-eared baby doll!
> 
> I may have to look that one up. Is it still here somewhere? I always thought I was doing the right thing, just trying to float along in the scriptures and be a good person.... until I did a Bible study. OY! What an eye opener!
> 
> Not going there.
> 
> Is it possible to find this stuff out without being skinned alive first??  LOL



I bumped the thread for you on baptism required for salvation.  Actually, it would be one of the few areas that you and free willie would agree on 

Works based salvation

Where's the antbed?


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## Country_Girl

ddd-shooter said:


> I just wonder why no music??? sorry if thats off topic...


  You know what?  I really can't tell you.  No, seriously... I remember asking the very same question when I started visiting several years ago, and got a few vague answers about speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible is silent... and since there is no mention of musical instruments during worship in the New Testament like there is mention in the Old, there must not have been any.  Overall, I think it's more of a "what's NOT in the Bible" in this case than what IS.... 

Personally, I actually like it BETTER a capella.... no music to distract you, and the harmonizing is SO pretty when we all sing our parts.  I don't come to be entertained.  I come to worship with a group of like-minded people.


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## Country_Girl

I'll figure all this quote stuff out before this is over.  LOL



rjcruiser said:


> I bumped the thread for you on baptism required for salvation.  Actually, it would be one of the few areas that you and free willie would agree on Cool!  Thanks!
> 
> Works based salvation  You pokin' at me??  Not "here", buddy..... Salvation is not faith only, and it is also not works only.  It is the 2 together - "Faith without works is dead."
> 
> Where's the antbed?  Ah......... and who is bringin' the honey?  Couldya at least count to.... a billion first?  LOL


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## earl

Country_Girl said:


> You know what?  I really can't tell you.  No, seriously... I remember asking the very same question when I started visiting several years ago, and got a few vague answers about speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible is silent... and since there is no mention of musical instruments during worship in the New Testament like there is mention in the Old, there must not have been any.  Overall, I think it's more of a "what's NOT in the Bible" in this case than what IS....
> 
> Personally, I actually like it BETTER a capella.... no music to distract you, and the harmonizing is SO pretty when we all sing our parts.  I don't come to be entertained.  I come to worship with a group of like-minded people.



You missed the debate on that one also .
 I don't mean to be rude. It is good to have new blood. Belated welcome.


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## Hunting Teacher

How quick we are to judge and to attack our own brothers and sisters. I am a deacon in my church, but because of what is going on with my family  I asked the deacon body to make me "inactive." 
My daughter is dealing with VERY severe anorexia. My spiritual focus, time , and energy is focused on her and my family at this time in my spiritual walk/life. 
I am not able to fill the qualifications of a deacon at this time as I understand them. Because of circumstances beyond my control I am unable to be the servant to the body that a deacon needs to be.
This was not a quick or easy decision that I came to. It was after hours of tears, prayer, and fasting. So I have to disagree with some here. 
I will always feel called to serve God as He leads and believe I will always be an ordained deacon and believe soon I will be in a position to fulfill the duties of a deacon to the church according to First Timothy 3 and our churches charge to deacons. 
But I believe scripture teaches me that my family is my first priority. Until God has seen us through this trial the majority of  my spiritual focus and energy must be turned inward towards home. Then I will be able to once again focus my on the church body.
I think some here misinterpet the term"Inactive Deacon." It doesn't mean inactive from God's service. It simply means other qualified men are filling the positions of deacons for the church at that time.


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## thedeacon

I serve as a deacon In my local congragation, I was first ask by the elders to serve, my name was summited to the congragation and they were ask if anyone had any reason I should not serve.

I work under the leadeship of the elders and the congregation. 

A deacon is simply a servant. We all need to be servants just as deacons are. The only differance is a deacon has a special ability or is willing to develope a special ability.

I work with the deaf, and youth organization of activities. That does not mean that my responsibility to God is greater than yours. It does mean that I have a responsibility to my congragation and to the people I am appointed to serve, just as the first deacons (servants) were appointed to feed the widows and the poor. The apostles felt that their teachings needed to be attended to so they appointed capable men to do a specific job.

I can resign anytime I want to. Sometimes a person's work becomes ineffective and he needs to change his direction for his own good and for the good of the church.

Every two years our work is checked and if we have been successful we are asked to serve for another two years. We are also ask if we still want to serve. In our church we have 5 elders and 27 deacons.


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## Free Willie

rjcruiser said:


> I bumped the thread for you on baptism required for salvation.  Actually, it would be one of the few areas that you and free willie would agree on
> 
> Works based salvation
> 
> Where's the antbed?



LOL...consider the antbed KICKED! 

At least she has some parts right...Faith without works IS dead.

And you are also correct in that if you want to experience worship as it was in the first century you are gonna have to come to Mass at a Catholic Church. You ain't gonna find it in a church that was founded in 1906. 

I am curious, though, to the CoC's position on Communion specifically if they believe in Transubstanciation because early writings of the First Century Christians offer proof that they DID believe that the bread and wine were the actual body and blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ. 

But that is another thread. Sorry to hijack.


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## Country_Girl

Hunting Teacher said:


> How quick we are to judge and to attack our own brothers and sisters. I am a deacon in my church, but because of what is going on with my family  I asked the deacon body to make me "inactive."
> My daughter is dealing with VERY severe anorexia. My spiritual focus, time , and energy is focused on her and my family at this time in my spiritual walk/life.
> I am not able to fill the qualifications of a deacon at this time as I understand them. Because of circumstances beyond my control I am unable to be the servant to the body that a deacon needs to be.
> This was not a quick or easy decision that I came to. It was after hours of tears, prayer, and fasting. So I have to disagree with some here.
> I will always feel called to serve God as He leads and believe I will always be an ordained deacon and believe soon I will be in a position to fulfill the duties of a deacon to the church according to First Timothy 3 and our churches charge to deacons.
> But I believe scripture teaches me that my family is my first priority. Until God has seen us through this trial the majority of  my spiritual focus and energy must be turned inward towards home. Then I will be able to once again focus my on the church body.
> I think some here misinterpet the term"Inactive Deacon." It doesn't mean inactive from God's service. It simply means other qualified men are filling the positions of deacons for the church at that time.



I am so sorry that you are going through such a difficult time!  I pray that your daughter and family recover and heal very quickly!  



thedeacon said:


> In our church we have 5 elders and 27 deacons.



 WOW!  27 deacons??  How big is your church family? 



Free Willie said:


> LOL...consider the antbed KICKED!
> 
> At least she has some parts right...Faith without works IS dead.
> 
> And you are also correct in that if you want to experience worship as it was in the first century you are gonna have to come to Mass at a Catholic Church. You ain't gonna find it in a church that was founded in 1906.
> 
> I am curious, though, to the CoC's position on Communion specifically if they believe in Transubstanciation because early writings of the First Century Christians offer proof that they DID believe that the bread and wine were the actual body and blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
> 
> But that is another thread. Sorry to hijack.



Boy... y'all sure do like poking!   LOL  Transubstanciation??  Shoot......... I can't even pronounce that!   

Not addressing the rest here, because it doesn't belong in this thread.  Suffice to say that one is for the initial cleansing of sins and the other is in rememberance.  I'll have to go hunt a thread that's more suitable for that discussion...


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## Country_Girl

earl said:


> You missed the debate on that one also .
> I don't mean to be rude. It is good to have new blood. Belated welcome.


  Were you rude?  I didn't see where you were.  Thanks for the welcome!  

I'm starting to wonder if that "new blood" thing is a good thing..........or a bad one!


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## Huntinfool

Country_Girl said:


> Were you rude?  I didn't see where you were.



Give him time.....I think he's just apologizing in anticipation of what's to come! 


Just kidding buddy.


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## Country_Girl

Huntinfool said:


> Give him time.....I think he's just apologizing in anticipation of what's to come!
> 
> Just kidding buddy.



GRRRRR-eeeeeeeat........ 

I have already decided to ixnay a lot of the debate threads.  I'm not here to bicker, quibble, or bash or be bashed.... So I won't.  I read the first what... maybe 3 or 4 pages of the baptism thread you bumped up for me.  Thanks for bumping it, but..... there is no way I'm getting involved in such lunacy, even though the temptation was about more than I could stand.  lol


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## Branchminnow

Wetzel said:


> Can a Deacon ever stop being a Deacon?  If he continues to be active in the church, but doesn't want to be held responsible for the duties of a Deacon in that church, how does he quit?  Does he ask to be put on an inactive deacon list or must he resign as deacon all together?
> 
> Anyone have a clue?



If a deacon does not want to be a decon anymore....then he should stand up and make acknowledgements to the church and turn in his credentials........because if he all of a sudden says that he does not want to be a deacon then he never was....in his heart ( nor was he called to be one) a deacon.


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## Branchminnow

Jeff Phillips said:


> A Deacon is ordained for life.
> 
> .
> 
> I am a Deacon forever, .





Im with you on these my friend!


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## pigpen1

Country_Girl said:


> You know what?  I really can't tell you.  No, seriously... I remember asking the very same question when I started visiting several years ago, and got a few vague answers about speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible is silent... and since there is no mention of musical instruments during worship in the New Testament like there is mention in the Old, there must not have been any.  Overall, I think it's more of a "what's NOT in the Bible" in this case than what IS....
> 
> Personally, I actually like it BETTER a capella.... no music to distract you, and the harmonizing is SO pretty when we all sing our parts.  I don't come to be entertained.  I come to worship with a group of like-minded people.



 You can also look in the Campbellites Thread, I will see if I can bump it up for you.


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## thedeacon

Country_Girl;3805479



[COLOR="Red" said:
			
		

> WOW!  27 deacons??  How big is your church family? [/COLOR]



around 550 members, 400 or so Sunday attendance or as I like to say in fun, paying members.


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