# Easter Egg Hunts....



## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

What think ye of churches who host the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts?  I have heard of some that serve the children breakfast with the Easter Bunny.  I also have heard of some that have Egg Hunts for the children during Children's Church or Sunday School....

Compromise?  Tainting of God's Holy Worship?  or Just  Plain Fun?


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## pigpen1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> What think ye of churches who host the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts?  I have heard of some that serve the children breakfast with the Easter Bunny.  I also have heard of some that have Egg Hunts for the children during Children's Church or Sunday School....
> 
> Compromise?  Tainting of God's Holy Worship?  or Just  Plain Fun?



I didn't throw you under the bus on this one. I think you may have jumped out yourself....

 You should have added, do the women have to where pants or dresses to a easter egg hunt at church?

 And what if the easterbunny is a girl, does it have to wear a dress if it comes to the childrens breakfast at church?


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## addictedtodeer (Mar 24, 2009)

Depends on your view of the regulative principle.

Does everything done at the church building or by the church body constitute worship on any given day?

Now I'll step in it:
I personally believe Sunday is the Lord's day and anything done in corporate or private worship is to focus on Christ. He is to be  our sole focus of worship on any Sunday.
Easter egg hunt on a Sunday, yeah I just wouldn't be comfortable. To me it takes the focus off of Christ.
Now I'm also against anything else taking or sharing the place of Christ in Sunday Worship(Mother's day, Father's day, any National holiday). Sunday worship is for my King alone, I have enough problems conquering my own thoughts, I don't need help with distractions.

OK fire away!


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I didn't throw you under the bus on this one. I think you may have jumped out yourself....
> 
> You should have added, do the women have to where pants or dresses to a easter egg hunt at church?
> 
> And what if the easterbunny is a girl, does it have to wear a dress if it comes to the childrens breakfast at church?





There are times when I derive great pleasure by casting myself under the bus!  

I guess we should also include the "head covering" issue for a female Easter Bunny....


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## addictedtodeer (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I guess we should also include the "head covering" issue for a female Easter Bunny....


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## Branchminnow (Mar 24, 2009)

I have one at my house every year we cook hotdogs and have a big time. It is always on the saturday before easter yall come if you want. I always ask the churches that I have pastored in the past to come and most do.


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## celticfisherman (Mar 24, 2009)

I wouldn't like to see it on Sunday. To me that would be over the line. We used to have it on a Saturday but never had the Easter Bunny there.

Do any of you have the easter bunny at your house?


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> Depends on your view of the regulative principle.
> 
> Does everything done at the church building or by the church body constitute worship on any given day?
> 
> ...



No firing from me....We agree.  I have heard it said from the pulpit more than once...This isn't Mother's Day....but we should be loving and honoring our Mother's every day.  This isn't Father's Day....but we should be loving and honoring our Father's every day.

This is the Lord's Day and He will share His glory with no one.

If one of our children's birthdays falls upon Sunday, we celebrate it Saturday.  Even if Christmas falls upon Sunday, we will celebrate it on the Saturday before.

We reserve the Lord's Day for Him alone.


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## gtparts (Mar 24, 2009)

I agree with Banjo on this one.











It is definitely....................  



Seriously though, ask the children what the meaning of Easter is and respond appropriately. 

The resurrection of Jesus is an important concept and teachable, beyond a certain age and maturity. Obviously, if the child cannot comprehend, the lesson is of little value to him or her. This will certainly change as the child matures.

That children and adults enjoy the fantasy of the Easter Bunny and the hunt is not harmful, but usually a happy time. One merely needs to delineate between the fantasy and playful interaction of the hunt and the truth and joy that is associated with the death , burial, and resurrection of Jesus, the Son of God and the Hope of the world.

One could easily make oneself and others miserable over this issue. I can easily see Jesus laughing and enjoying the moment, as the the excited little children run around seeking to discover the hidden "treasures" provided by caring and loving parents, family, and/or community. 

Lacking evil intent or wicked deception, it affords the fun and recreation of a family picnic or a pick up game of touch football. God means for us to enjoy life in clean, wholesome ways. Everything that is not absolutely scriptural needs to be "tarred and feathered" as being of Satan.

Peace.


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## thedeacon (Mar 24, 2009)

It seems to me that we have forgotten that God looks into the heart. He knows our thoughts. If a Church uses an easter egg hunt to draw in young people to hear God's word I don't think God is sitting in heaven scorning that church.

Personally I don't think December 25 is Christ birthday. Is it wrong for me to have and evergreen tree decorated for Christmas. 

I think sometimes we worry about things that God doesn't care about.

The bible does not condemn traditions unless we try to make them a matter of salvation.


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I wouldn't like to see it on Sunday. To me that would be over the line. We used to have it on a Saturday but never had the Easter Bunny there.
> 
> Do any of you have the easter bunny at your house?



We don't.  My poor, little, deprived Presbyterian children have never received a basket full of goodies from the Easter Bunny.  Instead, their frugal mother buys up all the Easter candy from Walmart on the day after when it is slashed to 50% off....

I LOVE those Reese's eggs and Robin's eggs....


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

> The resurrection of Jesus is an important concept and teachable, beyond a certain age and maturity. Obviously, if the child cannot comprehend, the lesson is of little value to him or her. This will certainly change as the child matures.



Exactly....and one that must be taught EVERY Lord's Day.  We celebrate the resurrection 52 Sundays a year....and we don't even need the Easter Bunny to do so....

Having said that...I have allowed my children to "hunt eggs"  (but not on Sunday).  We just tell them it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity.  We like the candy, and the hunting is a lot of fun.


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## gtparts (Mar 24, 2009)

Failed to mention:

I would not be for having an egg hunt on Sunday. It would not "fly" where I attend church. I,  and most (if not all) others would oppose it openly and loudly.


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## reformedpastor (Mar 24, 2009)

addictedtodeer said:


> depends on your view of the regulative principle.
> 
> Does everything done at the church building or by the church body constitute worship on any given day?
> 
> ...




amen!


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

> We don't give candy either, but then again we don't eat highly processed foods. If I can't make it myself or grow it or buy it from a local farmer we don't need it and we don't eat it.





Dominic said:


> My wife and daughter both wear mantillas when we attend the Tridentine Latin Mass. Never seen an Easter bunny nor a female Easter bunny there.
> 
> 
> We also plan on making some Pysanka this year too...
> ...



But you'll eat eggs that have been soaked in Red Dye #5???


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

Dominic said:


> Nope red eggs can be dyed in boiled raspberries or in boiled red onion skins.



Very well then....just checking.


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## Paymaster (Mar 24, 2009)

I like Peeps. 

We never have an Easter Egg hunt or Bunny at Church. Church ,for us ,is for Worship. But after the service we usually go to someones house for lunch and have an egg hunt for the little kids.


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## reformedpastor (Mar 24, 2009)

The Lord cares about the heart and what comes out. 

Mark 7:20-23   20 And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.  21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,  22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.  23 "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man." 


All of life is important. One of the successful tactics satan has duped the church with is the dichotomy of life. My religious life and my secular life. This is a serious error, all of life is religious and an expression of our hearts before Him who created us and takes care of us. 

This is a violation of the Third commandment which teaches that a life lived contrary to its created purpose is guilty of profaning God's name.


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## crackerdave (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> We don't.  My poor, little, deprived Presbyterian children have never received a basket full of goodies from the Easter Bunny.  Instead, their frugal mother buys up all the Easter candy from Walmart on the day after when it is slashed to 50% off....
> 
> I LOVE those Reese's eggs and Robin's eggs....



That's me  - I'm on those Reese's eggs like a duck on a junebug! If somebody was to set a trap for me,that would be a killer bait.

I agree with some of the others who've said the egg hunts shouldn't be on Sunday - but I've been guilty of goin' fishin' after church many a time.No difference,I guess.

Another point I agree on - when the kids are old enough to understand,tell 'em Easter AIN'T about a silly egg-layin' wabbit!


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## SLUGGER (Mar 24, 2009)

We have an Egg Hunt every year at our church. Food, fun and fellowship. We have a time when we present the true meaning of Easter and of salvation. It has been a great outreach in the community.


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## celticfisherman (Mar 24, 2009)

rangerdave said:


> That's me  - I'm on those Reese's eggs like a duck on a junebug! If somebody was to set a trap for me,that would be a killer bait.
> 
> I agree with some of the others who've said the egg hunts shouldn't be on Sunday - but I've been guilty of goin' fishin' after church many a time.No difference,I guess.
> 
> Another point I agree on - when the kids are old enough to understand,tell 'em Easter AIN'T about a silly egg-layin' wabbit!



Cadberry Creme Eggs!!!! Man oh Man!!! I love those things!!!


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## rjcruiser (Mar 24, 2009)

Hmmm...this is an interesting question.  I think that having a dressed up Easter bunny is a bit over the top.  Having a little hunt for candy in Sunday school though....I don't think is a problem.

I guess that the key is the focus of the Sunday school or service.  Is the focus on the fun and Easter Bunny?  or is the focus on the resurrection of our Lord and Saviour?  If it is the former and not the latter, then it is a problem.

I know that this is my own humble (or not so humble) opinion, but I find the problem in many Southern Baptist churches is that so much of the focus of the service is on the cross and the blood of Jesus.  Yes that is important, but without the resurrection, the death/blood wouldn't mean a thing.


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## connorreid (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> What think ye of churches who host the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts?  I have heard of some that serve the children breakfast with the Easter Bunny.  I also have heard of some that have Egg Hunts for the children during Children's Church or Sunday School....
> 
> Compromise?  Tainting of God's Holy Worship?  or Just  Plain Fun?


 No wonder atheists think Christians are crazy...........a rabbit???  eggs?????   When I was growing up (and I was raised in the Church), I thought it was crazy - Are people surprised when children grow up and leave the Church???


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## crackerdave (Mar 24, 2009)

connorreid said:


> No wonder atheists think Christians are crazy...........a rabbit???  eggs?????   When I was growing up (and I was raised in the Church), I thought it was crazy - Are people surprised when children grow up and leave the Church???



"Train up a child in the way he should go....." You know the rest.


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## jawja_peach (Mar 24, 2009)

*Hippity Hopity Easter's on it's way...*



pigpen1 said:


> I didn't throw you under the bus on this one. I think you may have jumped out yourself....
> 
> You should have added, do the women have to where pants or dresses to a easter egg hunt at church?
> 
> And what if the easterbunny is a girl, does it have to wear a dress if it comes to the childrens breakfast at church?




*Haha (sarcastic) Just think Banjo, I have to live with him!!! LOL.... I do a lot of !!

On a serious note...

You know how we can't celebrate any type of holiday that is thought to be a 'religious' holiday in our Nation's schools?? Well, a friend of mine teaches over in Towns Co. She was teaching science and they were studying about eggs and about life. Easter was coming up and one of the children went home and shared what they were learning, how a chicken comes from an egg. And how through the egg the chicken gave birth. Well, oh my! She didn't get out of school before that the kids parents were calling, telling the school system that she was teaching Easter. And they felt she was trying to teach Biblical Creation. So, she got wrote up just because her lesson ran close to Easter.. I mean how stupid can you get!?? Anyway... I believe that you can take just about anything and make it either good or bad. Same with holidays. For everything God has Satan has a counterfeit. Well, I Give God the credit for everything, and find the good in every situation, if possible. Sometimes I can't but I try. So, if a church does an egg hunt, and it's on a Sat. great!! Take the eggs you get from the Christian Book store that have the bags of candy with scripture attached, give out Biblical stickers...etc. You can't build the walls too high or the lost won't cross, ya know!? Sometimes people that don't go to church will come to something like this, then they see how the church is, loving and nurturing the children, who are the church's future. 

Anyway, that's my thoughts on this... Blessings to all!!

Peach~      *


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

Sorry ,I'm late . Keep paganism alive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After all it is one of the ancient religions.


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## leroy (Mar 24, 2009)

we have a egg hunt every year the week before easter on sat. We gather all the kids up after lunch before the hunt and tell the real easter story. I see nothing wrong with it. We open it up to the community and have gained some new people in Church from it so it could be looked at as an outreach but im sure some will argue that its wrong.


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

> Haha (sarcastic) Just think Banjo, I have to live with him!!! LOL.... I do a lot of !!



hehehe....Believe me, Peach....I am living with one too!


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## rjcruiser (Mar 24, 2009)

earl said:


> Sorry ,I'm late . Keep paganism alive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After all it is one of the ancient religions.



Wow...finally...we've got an athiest saying that it is a religion.


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

Dang rj !! Wrong twice in one post . What's the world coming to ? I am not nor have I ever claimed to be an atheist. Paganism has absolutely nothing to do with being an atheist . It was ,and is , more of a nature religion. If you are too lazy to do the research try google ing both. Ignorance is NOT bliss.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 24, 2009)

earl said:


> Dang rj !! Wrong twice in one post . What's the world coming to ? I am not nor have I ever claimed to be an atheist. Paganism has absolutely nothing to do with being an atheist . It was ,and is , more of a nature religion. If you are too lazy to do the research try google ing both. Ignorance is NOT bliss.



You're right....athiests do believe in a god.....themselves.


Ahh....this ignorance is truly blissful.


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

You're right....athiests do believe in a god.....themselves.[QUOTE}
Just curious how you got that from my post...


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## Lowjack (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> What think ye of churches who host the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts?  I have heard of some that serve the children breakfast with the Easter Bunny.  I also have heard of some that have Egg Hunts for the children during Children's Church or Sunday School....
> 
> Compromise?  Tainting of God's Holy Worship?  or Just  Plain Fun?



All Part Of The Apostasy.


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## rjcruiser (Mar 24, 2009)

earl said:


> rjcruiser said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Didn't...I googled it


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

I asked for that ,didn't I? LOL


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## rjcruiser (Mar 24, 2009)

earl said:


> I asked for that ,didn't I? LOL



  I'm glad we all (well atleast most of us) have a sense of humor in here.


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

I have to try to have one . I am too old , too fat ,and too bald to get very indignant. Thanks for the help with the quotes AGAIN.


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## GA1dad (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> If one of our children's birthdays falls upon Sunday, we celebrate it Saturday.  QUOTE]
> 
> Wow!! That's pretty extreme!! I'm trying to tread lightly here,,,,, but don't you think God would understand celebrating a childs birthday?


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## Paymaster (Mar 24, 2009)

I know folks that won't eat an egg laid on Sunday. I don't knock them. I just find it curious.


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

GA1dad said:


> Banjo said:
> 
> 
> > If one of our children's birthdays falls upon Sunday, we celebrate it Saturday.  QUOTE]
> ...


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## pigpen1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Banjo said:


> hehehe....Believe me, Peach....I am living with one too!



 What I don't understand is how they get that bunny to lay eggs??? 

 We have had some rabbits and they lay something that looks more like uncolored M&M's, but they sure don't taste like M&M's....


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## GA1dad (Mar 24, 2009)

10-4


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## Banjo (Mar 24, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> What I don't understand is how they get that bunny to lay eggs???
> 
> We have had some rabbits and they lay something that looks more like uncolored M&M's, but they sure don't taste like M&M's....



 

Peach.....Peach.....Your hubby is at it again...but no buses this time .


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

I thought the plain ones were the ones that made you ....uhhhh....exited.


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## Lowjack (Mar 24, 2009)

thedeacon said:


> It seems to me that we have forgotten that God looks into the heart. He knows our thoughts. If a Church uses an easter egg hunt to draw in young people to hear God's word I don't think God is sitting in heaven scorning that church.
> 
> Personally I don't think December 25 is Christ birthday. Is it wrong for me to have and evergreen tree decorated for Christmas.
> 
> ...


I know some Spanish Churches down here, that have a Street party with Non-christian Music and dancing and drinking to attract party goers.
Is That OK too ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGID-DkK-8&feature=related


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## leroy (Mar 24, 2009)

Gatorb said:


> Imagine! kids having fun at church....ahhhh the horror...
> 
> I've got no problem with an easter egg hunt for the young children after childrens church...or an activity outside with the Easter story told and let the kids be kids and have fun.



I know they might even have on shorts  topics like this make me realize how much I love my Church


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## earl (Mar 24, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I know some Spanish Churches down here, that have a Street party with Non-christian Music and dancing and drinking to attract party goers.
> Is That OK too ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGID-DkK-8&feature=related



Sounds like St. Paddys.  Looks like fun.


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## addictedtodeer (Mar 24, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Cadberry Creme Eggs!!!! Man oh Man!!! I love those things!!!



As my former pastor would say:

"ANOINTED!"


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## celticfisherman (Mar 24, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I know some Spanish Churches down here, that have a Street party with Non-christian Music and dancing and drinking to attract party goers.
> Is That OK too ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGID-DkK-8&feature=related



Sure... I mean why not... They are going to do it anyway.


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## Huntinfool (Mar 25, 2009)

Just plain ol' fun Banjo....just plain ol' fun.

That's all.






I have serious doubts about whether my childrens' impressions of God or their eternal salvation will be in jeopardy because we dressed them up and let them go chase after some plastic eggs.

I'd rather them do it on my church property where I trust those who filled the eggs with candy than somewhere else where I have no idea who might be lacing that candy with who knows what.

Same reason we do something for Halloween at our church.  Everybody gives out candy from the trunks of their cars and we have a big fire and eat chili.

I'd rather my kids be around those people having fun and eating candy than somebody I don't know.


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## Huntinfool (Mar 25, 2009)

gtparts said:


> Failed to mention:
> 
> I would not be for having an egg hunt on Sunday. It would not "fly" where I attend church. I,  and most (if not all) others would oppose it openly and loudly.



ALL of sunday?  Or just during worship?  Did the Lord mandate that the hours of Sunday School and a one hour worship service are his and his alone?

Does it matter if we have an Easter egg hunt say at 6PM on Sunday when nothing else was already scheduled?

If you answer "yes", then good on ya.  At least you're consistent.  But I think it's ridiculous for folks to say "(insert gasp here) Not during the worship service!!!!" like that particular hour has significance over any other part of the day.

God never said "Thou shalt have a one hour worship service on Sundays (but make sure you finish early so you can beat the Baptists to the good places to eat!)."


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## mtnwoman (Mar 25, 2009)

My daughters church (very small church) did a community egg drop  at the YMCA.  It was on saturday, offered free food and had kiddie rides, and then the egg drop from a helicopter with plastic eggs stuffed with candy.
I helped and it was a pretty awesome thing considering only about 40 people attend the church and took all this on.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...&MyToken=c09ffbd3-58ec-4086-ad74-51a96d5fd6c0

There are some good pics on the same page, showing the fellowship of these folks preparing for this...pretty cool.
Joy, that's what I call it...joy!


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## leroy (Mar 25, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Just plain ol' fun Banjo....just plain ol' fun.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> ...



Good post huntinfool.. there are some who cant use Church and fun in the same sentence. There is a time for being serious as in worship services but nothing wrong with having fun activities for the kids and adults also. We're having a fellowship meal this Sun night, low country boil.


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## Lorri (Mar 25, 2009)

I love peeps also - like them lots when they have been in the fridge for awhile.

Our girls are teenagers now so they don't participate in the Easter Egg hunt anymore.  When they were growing up they would go to Easter Egg hunt on Saturday.  I feel anyway or anyhow you can get the message out to children about God bring it on. Who knows maybe they will pass the message on to adults.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 25, 2009)

luckylady said:


> I love peeps also - like them lots when they have been in the fridge for awhile.
> 
> Our girls are teenagers now so they don't participate in the Easter Egg hunt anymore.  When they were growing up they would go to Easter Egg hunt on Saturday.  I feel anyway or anyhow you can get the message out to children about God bringing it on. Who knows maybe they will passed the message on to adults.



I agree, it's all bait and ain't we suppose to be fishers of men?


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## Banjo (Mar 25, 2009)

leroy said:


> Good post huntinfool.. there are some who cant use Church and fun in the same sentence. There is a time for being serious as in worship services but nothing wrong with having fun activities for the kids and adults also. We're having a fellowship meal this Sun night, low country boil.



I guess you would think this of me, but nothing could be further from the truth.....

My children LOVE to go to church, looking forward to it... and begging to go even when they are sick and I won't let them  because they could spread their germs around....and not because they are going to be entertained by puppets, or given KoolAid and cookies.....not even because they are going to hunt eggs.....none of this happens.  They sit in church and take notes...then enjoy fellowship with friends and family afterwards.

I would say this is common at our church.  You have never seen a happier bunch of children....and it's not because they are hyped up on sugar.


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## pigpen1 (Mar 25, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I agree, it's all bait and ain't we suppose to be fishers of men?



 Yep, we are to be fishers of men, but we are not to use artificial bait.....only live bait will do...and the living word is that, not get them in on a Hotdog because they will leave on a Hamburger.


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## THREEJAYS (Mar 25, 2009)

Banjo said:


> There are times when I derive great pleasure by casting myself under the bus!
> 
> I guess we should also include the "head covering" issue for a female Easter Bunny....



And the SILENT part.


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## THREEJAYS (Mar 25, 2009)

We still allow them.They have always been on a day other than Sunday and as mentioned already my 22 and 24 yr olds grew up w/them and also grew out of them w/out affecting thier relationship w/Christ.


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## Banjo (Mar 25, 2009)

THREEJAYS said:


> And the SILENT part.


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## earl (Mar 25, 2009)

Mine are 26 and 29 and they still pout if they don't get full baskets.


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## connorreid (Mar 25, 2009)

Banjo said:


>


uhhhhhhh...........i will call uncle joel tomorrow


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## leroy (Mar 25, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I guess you would think this of me, but nothing could be further from the truth.....
> 
> My children LOVE to go to church, looking forward to it... and begging to go even when they are sick and I won't let them  because they could spread their germs around....and not because they are going to be entertained by puppets, or given KoolAid and cookies.....not even because they are going to hunt eggs.....none of this happens.  They sit in church and take notes...then enjoy fellowship with friends and family afterwards.
> 
> I would say this is common at our church.  You have never seen a happier bunch of children....and it's not because they are hyped up on sugar.




If that makes them happy then alls good. I have a problem when others look down on Churchs for having activities


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## gemcgrew (Mar 25, 2009)

Banjo said:


> The fourth commandment is fairly clear....The Lord's Day is about HIM....not us.
> 
> I would rather err on being "too cautious" than to offend God in any way.



Is Christ not your Sabbath?


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Yep, we are to be fishers of men, but we are not to use artificial bait.....only live bait will do...and the living word is that, not get them in on a Hotdog because they will leave on a Hamburger.



Ok loaves and fish then....what's the difference?


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## THREEJAYS (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Ok loaves and fish then....what's the difference?



Was healthier


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## Banjo (Mar 26, 2009)

connorreid said:


> uhhhhhhh...........i will call uncle joel tomorrow



Woo Hoo.......

Uncle Joel, Uncle Joel.......do us right!


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## pigpen1 (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Ok loaves and fish then....what's the difference?



1 Cor 11:22

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
KJV


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## leroy (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> 1 Cor 11:22
> 
> 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
> KJV



in context this dealt with the Lords Supper


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## pigpen1 (Mar 26, 2009)

leroy said:


> in context this dealt with the Lords Supper




 Exactly, if we are at Church eat of the Lords table and if we want Hot Dogs or Hamburgers etc, we have house's of our own to eat that at.

  22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?

 We can ride by most churches today and tell what is most important, they have a little small church building with a huge fellowship building. Their playhouse is a lot bigger than their prayhouse.


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## leroy (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Exactly, if we are at Church eat of the Lords table and if we want Hot Dogs or Hamburgers etc, we have house's of our own to eat that at.
> 
> 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?
> 
> We can ride by most churches today and tell what is most important, they have a little small church building with a huge fellowship building. Their playhouse is a lot bigger than their prayhouse.



 If someone is thinking of hotdogs and hamburgers while portaking of the Lords Supper then yea they have a problem. But to lump any meal-activity served and portaken of at Church into this is a stretch. Go inside of some of those large fellowship buildings and you might find alot more than that such as classrooms and even sanctuaries.


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## leroy (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Exactly, if we are at Church eat of the Lords table and if we want Hot Dogs or Hamburgers etc, we have house's of our own to eat that at.
> 
> 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?
> 
> We can ride by most churches today and tell what is most important, they have a little small church building with a huge fellowship building. Their playhouse is a lot bigger than their prayhouse.




With this as your take why did Jesus feed the 5000 why did he not minister to them then send them to their own houses to eat?


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

leroy said:


> With this as your take why did Jesus feed the 5000 why did he not minister to them then send them to their own houses to eat?



For real.

He fed them in more ways than one.


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## leroy (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> For real.
> 
> He fed them in more ways than one.



exactly, dont know why some think its the wrong thing to do now


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

My point is that there were 40 church members who drew 500 people to a Christian environment.
Would those 500 people have come to hear the "word" without some kind of bait?
If they would then we don't need bait....just tell them to please drop by to hear the word.

Are some of you saying that simply using the "word" as live bait will draw a crowd.....well if you are good luck with that one.

Besides another point that was missed is that the church was giving something to the community, eggs, food, fun for the kids, maybe someone got a clue that the church could be something other than boring to some people.

Of course I always expect naysayers and negativity about almost everything.

So if I take some food to a hungry person, that isn't what Jesus was talking about? How's about both??? I'll just take my Bible next time and expect them to be happy to just eat that.....makes sense to me   sheesh.


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## leroy (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> My point is that there were 40 church members who drew 500 people to a Christian environment.
> Would those 500 people have come to hear the "word" without some kind of bait?
> If they would then we don't need bait....just tell them to please drop by to hear the word.
> 
> ...


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Exactly, if we are at Church eat of the Lords table and if we want Hot Dogs or Hamburgers etc, we have house's of our own to eat that at.
> 
> 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?
> 
> We can ride by most churches today and tell what is most important, they have a little small church building with a huge fellowship building. Their playhouse is a lot bigger than their prayhouse.



So there was no real food, other than the wine and bread at the last supper?

What does feed My sheep mean? To me it means feed them spiritually and physically, ie feed the hungry. So when we clothe someone, we don't really clothe them? We just cover them in the "word"? 

When one or more are gathered in MY name, there I am among them. Does Jesus not want us to congregate? I know a church full of people can surely do more for others than I can alone.


John 21:11-13 (King James Version)

 11Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken. 

 12Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. 

 13Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


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## pigpen1 (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> So there was no real food, other than the wine and bread at the last supper?
> 
> What does feed My sheep mean? To me it means feed them spiritually and physically, ie feed the hungry. So when we clothe someone, we don't really clothe them? We just cover them in the "word"?
> 
> ...



Phil 3:19

19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
KJV


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Phil 3:19
> 
> 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
> KJV



HUH? we can't eat now at church?

ok I'll go get free wings at the bar on monday night 
Wonder why satan counterfeited that?


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## Ronnie T (Mar 26, 2009)

My wife told me today that my memory has gotten so bad that I qualify to hide my own easter eggs.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

Oh come on now, that's a stretch ain't it?

Do you eat when you are hungry? Do you think your belly then becomes your God?
Now maybe if you weigh 300 lbs or something....and that's still a stretch.
There are many more scriptures concerning, dine, supper, sup, feed the hungry in the Bible than there are about glutons.


Philippians 3:18-22 (King James Version)

 18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 

 19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 

 20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 

 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 26, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> My wife told me today that my memory has gotten so bad that I qualify to hide my own easter eggs.





I'm a grandmaw and I'm not allowed to hide the eggs.

I love egg samiches and I love hanging with the kidlets and dying the eggs and telling them the easter story while I have their attention for a moment or two.


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## PWalls (Mar 26, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> We can ride by most churches today and tell what is most important, they have a little small church building with a huge fellowship building. Their playhouse is a lot bigger than their prayhouse.



Well, duhhh. You don't want the spaghetti supper making a mess of the carpet in the sanctuary. Plus, I haven't ever seen a pew with a cup holder. That's why you have a fellowship hall.


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## Ronnie T (Mar 26, 2009)

PWalls said:


> Well, duhhh. You don't want the spaghetti supper making a mess of the carpet in the sanctuary. Plus, I haven't ever seen a pew with a cup holder. That's why you have a fellowship hall.



We have cup holder.  Got to put those little communion cups someplace.


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## Ronnie T (Mar 26, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I'm a grandmaw and I'm not allowed to hide the eggs.
> 
> I love egg samiches and I love hanging with the kidlets and dying the eggs and telling them the easter story while I have their attention for a moment or two.




I'm with you mtnwoman.
I love egg salad samiches.
Love um
Love um.


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## Israel (Mar 27, 2009)

leroy said:


> With this as your take why did Jesus feed the 5000 why did he not minister to them then send them to their own houses to eat?


I found out the same Jesus that feeds the crowd of hungry souls is the same Jesus who feeds me at home.
Jesus just wants us to see who has always been feeding us, not to put us under obligation, but so that the creator of all food is included in our company. 
He likes being with people, more than he disdains their foolishness.
And his joy is made full by being among those who recognize him.
Especially in one another.


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## gtparts (Mar 27, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Phil 3:19
> 
> 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
> KJV



So? What does it mean, "whose God is their belly"?

Navel worship?

The consumption of comestibles is worship and food is deified?

The primacy of temporal life becomes their god?


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## pigpen1 (Mar 27, 2009)

gtparts said:


> So? What does it mean, "whose God is their belly"?
> 
> Navel worship?
> 
> ...



 I take it to mean that we are willing to do anything to satisfy the hunger of the body/flesh, but when it come to the hunger of the soul/Spirit we will starve.

 And I am not against fellowship when done in a right manner, but when we can have a meal at church and a great number of church members show up for that, but we ask for a meeting for prayer and only a few attend it shows where our god is.


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## gtparts (Mar 27, 2009)

Israel said:


> I found out the same Jesus that feeds the crowd of hungry souls is the same Jesus who feeds me at home.
> Jesus just wants us to see who has always been feeding us, not to put us under obligation, but so that the creator of all food is included in our company.
> He likes being with people, more than he disdains their foolishness.
> And his joy is made full by being among those who recognize him.
> Especially in one another.




2nd Peter 3:8-18



> But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in [all] holy living and godliness, looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; as also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, knowing [these things] beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] the glory both now and for ever. Amen.




If we can just put the One as our No. 1, put first things first, sell all to possess the "pearl of great price", forsake all else for the sake of Jesus Christ and press in to Him, if we can accept the discipline that prepares us to run the race that He has set before us, if we do not grow faint, if we do not give in to the fatigue that causes others to turn aside, then let us encourage others that they might run their race. We are not competitors against each other, but against the course. If our running partner is Christ, the nature of the course is of no concern.

Likewise, when we see ourselves as vessels and temples of the Living Lord, we may gain the proper perspective as to the true nature of the physical buildings we call the house of God, a tool with which to serve Him and bring Him honor and glory. We should have great liberty in the use of that tool, even to the feeding of the people of God, when God shows up and He is praised.

That building that we focused such attention on and sought so mightily to keep the carpet clean from spilled food and drink, will be consumed at His coming. What will we say for the missed opportunities we had to use it for His glory?


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## gtparts (Mar 27, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I take it to mean that we are willing to do anything to satisfy the hunger of the body/flesh, but when it come to the hunger of the soul/Spirit we will starve.
> 
> And I am not against fellowship when done in a right manner, but when we can have a meal at church and a great number of church members show up for that, but we ask for a meeting for prayer and only a few attend it shows where our god is.



This does not bring condemnation on those who eat there, but rather, those who, having no excuse, fail to pray there.

Peace.


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## Huntinfool (Mar 27, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Exactly, if we are at Church eat of the Lords table and if we want Hot Dogs or Hamburgers etc, we have house's of our own to eat that at.



Give me an ever-lovin' break!


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## Tim L (Mar 28, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I wouldn't like to see it on Sunday. To me that would be over the line. We used to have it on a Saturday but never had the Easter Bunny there.
> 
> Do any of you have the easter bunny at your house?



I kind of agree with you on this one...we have an egg hunt at church for the kids, but its on a thursday evening.  I wouldn't want to see it on sunday and have it on easter....would be sort of like Santa being at the church for the christmas eve or christmas day service....


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## earl (Mar 29, 2009)

For all of you nonSunday easter egg hunters.---- So it is ok to sin and adopt pagan ceremony and idols as long as it does'nt occur on Sunday ? It's ok as long as the kid's are having fun ? When my kids were young we did the whole easter egg bit , but I told them the true reason for the season. Same with Santa Claus. No wonder young christians grow up to be confused adult christians. Don;t your kids deserve the truth about the nonchristian celebrations and why you celebrate them ?


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## mtnwoman (Mar 29, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I take it to mean that we are willing to do anything to satisfy the hunger of the body/flesh, but when it come to the hunger of the soul/Spirit we will starve.
> 
> And I am not against fellowship when done in a right manner, but when we can have a meal at church and a great number of church members show up for that, but we ask for a meeting for prayer and only a few attend it shows where our god is.



I don't get it.

If Jesus told you to be a fisher of men, what would be the first thing you would think of?

What's the first thing you think of when somebody takes you bass fishing for the first time? what kind of bait do you use maybe?
If you catch the fish, what difference does it make whether you take Fred's advice on bait or George's advice on bait?
If you can't get them to come to the bait how are you gonna catch them?
Wouldn't you just hope that if you get them to come to the bait that they just might take it? Or would you rather NOT throw out the bait and have no chance at all for catching the fish?

That's why Jesus uses fishing as an example...wouldn't ya just think? What else could He possibly mean?

JMHO


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## pigpen1 (Mar 29, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> If Jesus told you to be a fisher of men, what would be the first thing you would think of?
> 
> ...



 Many today are throwing artificial bait and artificial bait has no LIFE in it. When I was lost and my soul hungered, I was not looking for a Church that had something to fill my stomach, I was looking for the filling of my soul. Today Churches are using every thing under the sun to draw a big crowed except the SON, and most of the time the people are drawn to the flashy church services like a moth to a bug zapper. Just because it has church service in the title doesn't mean it is of God.

   I put it like this, the Church is like a boat and the world is the water. Every thing works fine as long as it is that way, but when the water starts coming in the boat the boat looses power and begins to sink. 

 We are suppose to come out from the among the world and be a peculiar people. I know of a mega church up here in Hall county that uses every kind of "artificial" bait to gather a huge crowed, but they teach a false salvation, they let people that are openly living together in adultery and fornication teach and work as leaders. So those who bite the artificial bait find no life, it looks real, it smells real, it maybe even shakes like it has life but it is dead.

 Don't get me wrong I enjoy good Christian fellowship, but when the only way people will come is if they are fed a supper something is wrong. Like I said before our playhouses are bigger than our pray houses and that shows where our emphasis is put.

 How many widows and orphans do we carry food to their homes or go to take care of their needs, compared to how many services we have at church to feed ourselves?

  There are many ways to show our love that doesn't include feeding ourselves, and in them life can be seen.


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## Banjo (Mar 29, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Many today are throwing artificial bait and artificial bait has no LIFE in it. When I was lost and my soul hungered, I was not looking for a Church that had something to fill my stomach, I was looking for the filling of my soul. Today Churches are using every thing under the sun to draw a big crowed except the SON, and most of the time the people are drawn to the flashy church services like a moth to a bug zapper. Just because it has church service in the title doesn't mean it is of God.
> 
> I put it like this, the Church is like a boat and the world is the water. Every thing works fine as long as it is that way, but when the water starts coming in the boat the boat looses power and begins to sink.
> 
> ...



This is well said...and for what it is worthy I offer a hearty "Amen!"  My husband often says, "What you win them with is what you win them to!"


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## messenger (Mar 29, 2009)

I agree with Saturday before Easter . We have a huge egg
hunt, cook out and afternoon fellowship.


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## earl (Mar 29, 2009)

The Babylonians celebrated the day as the return of Ishtar (Easter), the goddess of Spring. This day celebrated the rebirth, or reincarnation, of Nature and the goddess of Nature. According to Babylonian legend, a huge egg fell from heaven, landing in the Euphrates River. The goddess, Ishtar (Easter) broke out of this egg. Later, the feature of an egg nesting was introduced, a nest where the egg could incubate until hatched. A "wicker" or reed basket was conceived in which to place the Ishtar egg.

The Easter Egg Hunt was conceived because, if anyone found her egg while she was being "reborn", she would bestow a blessing upon that lucky person! Because this was a joyous Spring festival, eggs were colored with bright Spring colors. [Ibid.]

The Easter Bunny

"The Goddess' totem, the Moon-hare, would lay eggs for good children to eat ... Eostre's hare was the shape that Celts imagined on the surface of the full moon ...." ["Pagan Traditions of Holidays", p. 10.] Do not bother to tell me that bunnies do not lay eggs, for I know that; we are dealing with a legend here, and an occult legend at that. These types of legends traditionally play loose and fast with facts.

Thus, "Easter" -- Eostre, or Ishtar -- was a goddess of fertility. Since the bunny is a creature that procreates quickly, it symbolized the sexual act; the egg symbolized "birth" and "renewal". Together, the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg symbolizes the sex act and its offspring, Semiramis and Tammuz.

Thus, it is a very serious spiritual matter, indeed, when christian churches incorporate "Resurrection Eggs" as part of their Easter celebration. At the very least, these churches are confusing the minds of their precious young children, by blurring the dividing line between pagan symbols and their meanings and Christian meanings of Resurrection Day. Young children who participated in "Resurrection Eggs" in church will be conditioned later in their life to accept the fullness of the pagan tradition revolving around the same symbols.

At worst, a church participating in the pagan Easter tradition by promoting "Resurrection Eggs" and perhaps an Easter Egg Hunt, is guilty of combining Christianity with paganism, the very lethal cocktail the Lord Jesus will always reject! Remember our key verse:

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing"
source ---seem my thread truth...


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## mtnwoman (Mar 30, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> How many widows and orphans do we carry food to their homes or go to take care of their needs, compared to how many services we have at church to feed ourselves?



Exactly....this goes back to my original post where we were giving food away, that you condemned.
So a widow won't eat a free hotdog or hamburger? You totally missed my points.

Our service for giving candy and eggs and free food to a community that some were probably less than privilaged, giving them an opportunity to sup with the Lord......He works THRU us, ya know?
Sheesh I still don't see how you can condemn giving food away as a church to draw people to minister to them hopefully.

We do feed widows and the poor and ya know what a lot of those people were discovered from our eggdrop.

Do you feed widows? only? or do you spend your energy condemning others for at least trying to do something nice for the community?

40 people at that church stuffed 10,000 eggs out of love. Not only did they raise the money and pay for all the food to give away.....oh never mind.

I certainly hope you were spending days searching the community for people to "feed" last easter.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 30, 2009)

Banjo said:


> This is well said...and for what it is worthy I offer a hearty "Amen!"  My husband often says, "What you win them with is what you win them to!"




And what does he win them with? Does he go outside the church to win them? and if he does, exactly what does he do? I'd be interested in knowing how you'd go about it.


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## Banjo (Mar 30, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> And what does he win them with? Does he go outside the church to win them? and if he does, exactly what does he do? I'd be interested in knowing how you'd go about it.



We win them by boldly proclaiming the truth both corporately from the pulpit, and individually to those we may come in to contact with throughout our day to day routines.  We win them by having them in our home and developing relationships with them.  We win them by allowing Jesus to build His church.

Most of the families who come to our church.....stay and participate actively.  We are involved in each other's lives and are in one another's homes constantly.  Our children love each other and are growing up holding one another accountable.  I can't tell you the number of times I have heard an older child gently admonish a younger child explaining to them that in all our actions we must glorify the Lord Jesus.

Many churches who lure people in with things not found in the Bible seem to have a revolving door.....influx in and an influx out....


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## Jranger (Mar 30, 2009)

Here is my feeble attempt at derailment...
Do any of you believe that the resurrection actually occurred on a Sunday? Or even in March for that matter? explain your answer...


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## earl (Mar 30, 2009)

If I am not mistaken they are both correct. They evolved in different parts of the world by different populations. I will have to go back and reread on Pascha ,but I think It is Hebrew.


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## earl (Mar 30, 2009)

OK ,memory refreshed. It is indeed Hebrew . Passover  [OT/Torah] is a Jewish celebration . Pascha as describrd in your post is another example of christians using other folks holidays instead of coming up with something original.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 30, 2009)

Banjo said:


> We win them by boldly proclaiming the truth both corporately from the pulpit, and individually to those we may come in to contact with throughout our day to day routines.  We win them by having them in our home and developing relationships with them.  We win them by allowing Jesus to build His church.
> 
> Most of the families who come to our church.....stay and participate actively.  We are involved in each other's lives and are in one another's homes constantly.  Our children love each other and are growing up holding one another accountable.  I can't tell you the number of times I have heard an older child gently admonish a younger child explaining to them that in all our actions we must glorify the Lord Jesus.
> 
> Many churches who lure people in with things not found in the Bible seem to have a revolving door.....influx in and an influx out....



We do all that, too. We have small groups, too which help each other with family problems, or housing problems etc. I'm not talking about what we do with people that we know, or our friends.
I'm asking you where these people come from? Do you just walk up to people in the grocery store and invite them to your home or church out of the clear blue?

Food is found in the Bible....didn't Jesus feed the hungry folks before His sermon on mt. He knew they wouldn't pay that much attention if they were hungry.....He gave them loaves and fish....I don't get where you don't think we should do that....Jesus did it.

And you don't think I boldly proclaim things?


So when you invite them into your home, I hope you give them some water or something...I'm sure Jesus would.

If you think that a nonchristian will come into your home or come to your church for any reason, EVEN food, you're mistaken. 
Before I came back to the fold, I avoided all churches, all pastors, all Christian related anything, including free food, because I didn't want to be approached.

This eggdrop was an outside community gift, we didn't invite them to our church for free food...we wanted to make sure all children, especially underprivilaged that live in the nearby project would get some easter eggs dropped from the heavens...like manna.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 30, 2009)

Jranger said:


> Here is my feeble attempt at derailment...
> Do any of you believe that the resurrection actually occurred on a Sunday? Or even in March for that matter? explain your answer...



If we go by what it expresses in the Bible, then yes, because it brings up the sabbath as being the day between the crusifixion and the resurrection...which woulda been saturday. So from friday night until sunday woulda been the 3rd day.

Passover is in March or April depending on how it lines up. That has something to do with the date of Easter also.
The passover lamb was replaced with Jesus the Lamb of God...the spotless Lamb of God.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 30, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Many churches who lure people in with things not found in the Bible seem to have a revolving door.....influx in and an influx out....



Have you taken a poll on that many churches to conclude that? Most people with any sense at all stay in church because the pastor is a good Bible teacher....free food every other month won't keep them there....it just gives them a chance to meet other church members in a social environment 
And if they leave because they don't get free food or whatever then they weren't there for the right reason now were they?


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## Banjo (Mar 31, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> We do all that, too. We have small groups, too which help each other with family problems, or housing problems etc. I'm not talking about what we do with people that we know, or our friends.
> I'm asking you where these people come from? Do you just walk up to people in the grocery store and invite them to your home or church out of the clear blue?
> 
> Food is found in the Bible....didn't Jesus feed the hungry folks before His sermon on mt. He knew they wouldn't pay that much attention if they were hungry.....He gave them loaves and fish....I don't get where you don't think we should do that....Jesus did it.
> ...



These people come from everywhere.  I have met people at homeschool functions, the grocery store, the library  etc.  I tend not to meet a stranger and will strike up a conversation with just about anybody (which really used to get me in trouble when I was riding MARTA to Georgia State every morning).....

I am not against food....so not quite sure where this question is coming from.  My favorite times are found around my table with friends (new and old).  

We have had many nonchristians in our homes and have had them come to visit our church.   I have found that nonchristians are EXTREMELY interested in my family.  I think we are even viewed as an enigma at times.  The children excel and are actually pleasant to be around.  People are looking for answers, and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ has them.

Mtnwoman...I would be willing to bet that you do boldly proclaim the gospel; I think that is great.  Dropping eggs to underprivileged children sounds good, but unless the Gospel was given to these children and their parents, (and it may have been) it didn't really give them what they so desperately need.


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## pigpen1 (Mar 31, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Have you taken a poll on that many churches to conclude that? Most people with any sense at all stay in church because the pastor is a good Bible teacher....free food every other month won't keep them there....it just gives them a chance to meet other church members in a social environment
> And if they leave because they don't get free food or whatever then they weren't there for the right reason now were they?




 I know of a church close to were I live that has a archery shoot once a year to draw in people that normally wouldn't attend a church service. During that day they pass out cards with a questionnaire on them. One question that is asked is have you accepted Christ as your saviour today. Around a 100 sign those cards every year and they are not back at another service until next years shoot.
  I think they are doing more harm than good, they are giving people a false cloak of salvation that might be just enough to keep them from finding the real thing.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I know of a church close to were I live that has a archery shoot once a year to draw in people that normally wouldn't attend a church service. During that day they pass out cards with a questionnaire on them. One question that is asked is have you accepted Christ as your saviour today. Around a 100 sign those cards every year and they are not back at another service until next years shoot.
> I think they are doing more harm than good, they are giving people a false cloak of salvation that might be just enough to keep them from finding the real thing.



Ok that would include all church events....let's just not go out into the world and preach the gospel...let's just keep it real right in the church.

I'd think taking food to starving people in Africa is giving them a false cloak of salvation that they might not have to go hungry again, so why take the food in the first place? 
I know maybe because God said to cast your nets out into the deep....the unknown...
Some of us will and some of us won't....some of us will keep our hotdogs to ourselves under our own roofs and some of us won't.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Mtnwoman...I would be willing to bet that you do boldly proclaim the gospel; I think that is great.  Dropping eggs to underprivileged children sounds good, but unless the Gospel was given to these children and their parents, (and it may have been) it didn't really give them what they so desperately need.



Oh so there does have to be an alterior motive? Just like I thought....bait them with eggs then give them the gospel.
Or we can chase people around the grocery store one at a time with tracks that end up in the trash, ...invite them over, not for food, not for drink, but to preach to them....good luck on the cold calling with that. Sounds like Jehovah Witnesses taking tracks around and approaching people who may not want to be approached.
At least if the people know it's an egg drop from a church, they know what they are in for.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I am not against food....so not quite sure where this question is coming from.  My favorite times are found around my table with friends (new and old).  * Because you agreed with pigpen that food should be shared in the home and not at church.*
> 
> We have had many nonchristians in our homes and have had them come to visit our church.   I have found that nonchristians are EXTREMELY interested in my family.  I think we are even viewed as an enigma at times.  The children excel and are actually pleasant to be around.  People are looking for answers, and the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ has them.*Well of course that's the reason to call folks together. Do you think the people went to the sermon on the mount knowing exactly what to expect when they got there? No Jesus decided to feed them so they wouldn't leave and go home to eat their hotdogs....He wanted them to hang around. All I said was food is good bait, ya'll are saying it's fake bait. So I don't get your point....ya'll brought it up, the question of the food that is.*
> 
> Mtnwoman...I would be willing to bet that you do boldly proclaim the gospel; I think that is great.  Dropping eggs to underprivileged children sounds good, but unless the Gospel was given to these children and their parents, (and it may have been) it didn't really give them what they so desperately need.*Now use your wildest imagination and look at the video if you didn't...if you did look at it again....you might get a clue what the eggdrop was about....it was about Jesus, just a tool to fill the net to overflowing and feed the people in more ways than one.*



Feed the hungry, why how dare us...


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

> I am not against food....so not quite sure where this question is coming from. My favorite times are found around my table with friends (new and old). Because you agreed with pigpen that food should be shared in the home and not at church.



Nope....never did.  As a matter of fact, our church has a fellowship meal EVERY Sunday night after worship.....We've had all types of people eat it...including the homeless who come in off the streets.


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## leroy (Apr 1, 2009)

here you say.





Banjo said:


> This is well said...and for what it is worthy I offer a hearty "Amen!"  My husband often says, "What you win them with is what you win them to!"





then here you talk about using a meal once a week to draw people in so which is it?




> Nope....never did. As a matter of fact, our church has a fellowship meal EVERY Sunday night after worship.....We've had all types of people eat it...including the homeless who come in off the streets.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> here you say.
> 
> Ahhh....now I see.  Here is what I Amened...
> 
> ...



Nope...I NEVER said we use a meal to draw people in, because that is not why we have the meal.  The meal is most certainly not the draw.  The meal is after the WORSHIP SERVICE to provide a time of fellowship for the saints and any visitors who may have ventured into our church.  It is a time where two different families each week have a chance to minister to the body, providing hospitality to the church.  It is a time of great fellowship where friendship is strengthened and the love of the brethtren is portrayed.  IT IS NOT ABOUT ATTRACTING THE MASSES, although were some to visit they could be attracted because of the love that is evident among our families.


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## leroy (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Nope...I NEVER said we use a meal to draw people in, because that is not why we have the meal.  The meal is most certainly not the draw.  The meal is after the WORSHIP SERVICE to provide a time of fellowship for the saints and any visitors who may have ventured into our church.  It is a time where two different families each week have a chance to minister to the body, providing hospitality to the church.  It is a time of great fellowship where friendship is strengthened and the love of the brethtren is portrayed.  IT IS NOT ABOUT ATTRACTING THE MASSES, although were some to visit they could be attracted because of the love that is evident among our families.




Now IMO your splitting hairs. I see no difference in what you are doing than a Church, such as mine, having an egg hunt and having a message before the hunt. How do you know some are not coming sitting through the service and are just there for the meal.


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## celticfisherman (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> Now IMO your splitting hairs. I see no difference in what you are doing than a Church, such as mine, having an egg hunt and having a message before the hunt. How do you know some are not coming sitting through the service and are just there for the meal.



Then at least you have set thru the service and got a meal. Both being Biblical aspects of the church.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> Now IMO your splitting hairs. I see no difference in what you are doing than a Church, such as mine, having an egg hunt and having a message before the hunt. How do you know some are not coming sitting through the service and are just there for the meal.



Do you advertise the hunt or the service?  Our meal is never advertised....come to think of it, neither is our service, other than word of mouth.  

What does an egg hunt have to do with Jesus?


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## Madman (Apr 1, 2009)

Easter egg hunts, dancing, a little wine for the stomach, Saturday is the real Sabbath.  Sounds like cheap grace to me.

"Was man made for the Sabbath or the Sabbah for man?"


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## earl (Apr 1, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but it sounded like.... It is in the bible that you can sit through a service and then get a meal ,but you can't get a meal and then sit through a service ? Chapter and book please . Not just a verse or two because I don't want to get it out of context.


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## Mako22 (Apr 1, 2009)

Easter bunny = paganism/fertility
Santa Clause = Roman Church paganism
Halloween  = Roman Church blended Satanism
Valentines day = Roman Church fertility/Hall Mark holiday
Thanksgiven = the closest thing to a Biblical holiday


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## Huntinfool (Apr 1, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> Easter bunny = paganism/fertility
> Santa Clause = Roman Church paganism
> Halloween  = Roman Church blended Satanism
> Valentines day = Roman Church fertility/Hall Mark holiday
> Thanksgiven = the closest thing to a Biblical holiday



Easter bunny = fun for kids
Santa Clause = fun for kids
Halloween = fun for kids
V-Day= fun for kids (and for adults!)
Thanksgiving = fun for everybody

I promise you that there is not a single atheist out there who will make the following statement:

_"Well, I wanted to believe in Christ.  But they brought an Easter bunny to my church one year and we had an easter egg hunt.  I just couldn't reconcile that dang bunny with Christ...so I decided he must not be real either."_

Easter Bunny, Santa....NONE of that stuff turns people away from Christ folks.  It just doesn't.  

The reception they get from Christians when they walk in the door sometimes does.  What they see "Christians" doing sometimes does.  But, I promise you....the Easter Bunny is not even in the top 1000 reasons people turn away from Christ.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

well, only slightly.

My kids' b-days are around this time of easter and my mom sent them both b-day packages.  One of the items that came was an easter egg painting kit.  What was funny was it was a "christian" egg kit that had things such as crosses, churches and other christian symbols to paint on the eggs.

Thought is was truly a bringing together of the tradition of easter eggs and the true meaning of Easter


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## earl (Apr 1, 2009)

Might want to rethink V day . It's origins are not catholic . Go back to Eros ,Venus and Cupid. Almost all holidays go back to pagans,and greek mythology. One of the few is MLK day.


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## dawg2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> Easter bunny = paganism/fertility
> Santa Clause = Roman Church paganism
> Halloween  = Roman Church blended Satanism
> Valentines day = Roman Church fertility/Hall Mark holiday
> Thanksgiven = the closest thing to a Biblical holiday



Explain how a holiday (Thanksgiving) that celebrates the taking of a native people's land and committing  massacres against their women and children, and then forcing them into concentration camps (that many still live on) is "the closest thing to a Biblical holiday?"


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Explain how a holiday (Thanksgiving) that celebrates the taking of a native people's land and committing  massacres against their women and children, and then forcing them into concentration camps (that many still live on) is "the closest thing to a Biblical holiday?"



Hmmmm.....battle of Jericho?  Or maybe more like Ai since the Indians did get the best of the white folk early on.


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## earl (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Explain how a holiday (Thanksgiving) that celebrates the taking of a native people's land and committing  massacres against their women and children, and then forcing them into concentration camps (that many still live on) is "the closest thing to a Biblical holiday?"


Too easy . They killed most of those heathen injuns and imprisoned the rest. Standard operating procedures. If you can't convert 'em , kill 'em.


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## leroy (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Do you advertise the hunt or the service?  Our meal is never advertised....come to think of it, neither is our service, other than word of mouth.
> 
> What does an egg hunt have to do with Jesus?



yes it is advertised. I'm sure if you have a meal every Sun. night it is advertised also if only by word of mouth as you said. What does your meal have to do with Jesus? My point is you can no more tell the condition of the peoples heart that are sitting at your tables at your Sun night meals than we can the people that come to our egg hunt. We just have to pray that someones heart might be touched and they might follow it up by attending Church to continue to hear the word and this has happened with our egg hunts.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> yes it is advertised. I'm sure if you have a meal every Sun. night it is advertised also if only by word of mouth as you said. What does your meal have to do with Jesus? My point is you can no more tell the condition of the peoples heart that are sitting at your tables at your Sun night meals than we can the people that come to our egg hunt. We just have to pray that someones heart might be touched and they might follow it up by attending Church to continue to hear the word and this has happened with our egg hunts.



Our meals have everything to do with Jesus...It allows the brethren to serve one another in love.  

I am sorry, Leroy, I just don't care much for the ploys that many churches use to bring in the lost.  Ipod give aways, free gas or cash....I just think they make the church look desperate and cheapen the gospel in some way.  Poor Jesus is just sitting in heaven wringing his hands hoping someone will be coaxed into believing in Him....

Preach the Gospel unfettered in season and out, boldly proclaiming the Kingship of Christ....and let God build His church.  No need for gimmicks or tricks....


----------



## celticfisherman (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Explain how a holiday (Thanksgiving) that celebrates the taking of a native people's land and committing  massacres against their women and children, and then forcing them into concentration camps (that many still live on) is "the closest thing to a Biblical holiday?"



The first thanksgiving wasn't that.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Nope...I NEVER said we use a meal to draw people in, because that is not why we have the meal.  The meal is most certainly not the draw.  The meal is after the WORSHIP SERVICE to provide a time of fellowship for the saints and any visitors who may have ventured into our church.  It is a time where two different families each week have a chance to minister to the body, providing hospitality to the church.  It is a time of great fellowship where friendship is strengthened and the love of the brethtren is portrayed.  IT IS NOT ABOUT ATTRACTING THE MASSES, although were some to visit they could be attracted because of the love that is evident among our families.



But you agreed with pig about you should eat your hotdogs at home and give the people something they really need.....when you say Amen after someone's post that sorta means you agree.

yeah I wanna know which is it, too.....give the homeless some food or what you think they really need, which as you mentioned or your husband mentioned or pig mentioned that you amened to... would be 'real' bait (salvation) instead of fake bait, which supposedly is food.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> Now IMO your splitting hairs. I see no difference in what you are doing than a Church, such as mine, having an egg hunt and having a message before the hunt. How do you know some are not coming sitting through the service and are just there for the meal.



Exactly and that's exactly what's been said in this thread and by Banjo's husband, too.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Then at least you have set thru the service and got a meal. Both being Biblical aspects of the church.



Amen to that!


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

Last time.....

Here is what I "AMENED..."



> Many today are throwing artificial bait and artificial bait has no LIFE in it. When I was lost and my soul hungered, I was not looking for a Church that had something to fill my stomach, I was looking for the filling of my soul. Today Churches are using every thing under the sun to draw a big crowed except the SON, and most of the time the people are drawn to the flashy church services like a moth to a bug zapper. Just because it has church service in the title doesn't mean it is of God.
> 
> I put it like this, the Church is like a boat and the world is the water. Every thing works fine as long as it is that way, but when the water starts coming in the boat the boat looses power and begins to sink.
> 
> ...



Maybe I missed it...but I don't see anything about hotdogs....I placed in red the comments that I really dig.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I am sorry, Leroy, I just don't care much for the ploys that many churches use to bring in the lost.  Ipod give aways, free gas or cash*Easter eggs and hotdogs...sheesh...how did that turn into ipods....if you actually know a church that does that you ain't keepin' up with your boldness to run over there and steer them in the right direction....i've never heard of such a thing unless it was a fund raising bazaar.*....I just think they make the church look desperate and cheapen the gospel in some way.  Poor Jesus is just sitting in heaven wringing his hands hoping someone will be coaxed into believing in Him....*Now that's ridiculous, who said anything about that...grasping at straws are ya?*
> 
> Preach the Gospel unfettered in season and out, boldly proclaiming the Kingship of Christ....and let God build His church.  No need for gimmicks or tricks....*Then God don't need our help....we don't need to be fishers of men...God will send them to your house....but not for hotdogs.*



Help me Lord....


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> But you agreed with pig about you should eat your hotdogs at home and give the people something they really need.....when you say Amen after someone's post that sorta means you agree.
> 
> yeah I wanna know which is it, too.....give the homeless some food or what you think they really need, which as you mentioned or your husband mentioned or pig mentioned that you amened to... would be 'real' bait (salvation) instead of fake bait, which supposedly is food.





Banjo said:


> Last time.....
> 
> Here is what I "AMENED..."
> 
> ...



Hmmm...Banjo...did you go back and delete your "Amen"





I'm awaiting the response from MW.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Exactly and that's exactly what's been said in this thread and by Banjo's husband, too.



I'm looking for it but unable to locate where my husband has commented in this thread....He and I are usually on the same page about things so you are going to have to find it for me so that I can read it......


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Last time.....
> 
> Here is what I "AMENED..."
> 
> ...



Help me Lord...

Pig did and you agreed with his take on this thing about feeding people and said your husband did, too. Do you know pig personally? I think y'all are running around the same bush.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Help me Lord....



Now awaiting Banjo's response


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I'm looking for it but unable to locate where my husband has commented in this thread....He and I are usually on the same page about things so you are going to have to find it for me so that I can read it......



You obviously spoke for your husband, if I have to go find it, I will.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> You obviously spoke for your husband, if I have to go find it, I will.



You will have to find it...I do see where he "Amened" comments concerning the Regulative Principle of Worship....which would most certainly condemn Easter Egg Hunts during a worship service....

Still looking.....I did find my "Amen" thread...

I didn't speak for my husband but quoted him and will heartily do so again:

"What you win them with is what you win them to..."

Still no mention of hotdogs in that post.....


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo...
post 102 talks about hotdogs and we should eat at home and not the church..

you agree in post 103
and say your husband does too

then you change it up and say you do eat at church for fellowship...

I don't get your points at all....you talk in circles....
you tell others to eat at home or agree with pig about that, but have a fellowship at your church with food....which is it? so tell me again what your husband says about that?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> You will have to find it...I do see where he "Amened" comments concerning the Regulative Principle of Worship....which would most certainly condemn Easter Egg Hunts during a worship service....
> 
> Still looking.....I did find my "Amen" thread...
> 
> ...



Help me Lord 

pig said it (hotdogs) and you agreed with it.

I give up.
We're gonna have food and feed people, if it gets them to church and they get a seed then it was good bait....if they don't get a seed then they ain't hungry when they leave  and maybe they can think about later how Jesus provides food for them thru other people....including eggs.


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Now awaiting Banjo's response



Troublemaker....that is going to cost you on Mario Karts tonight.  We were feeling sorry for you after last week's stomping;  we were even thinking about letting you win this week so you didn't become too discouraged and give up Mario Karts.

Forget it now...It is on and the Paedo's will be out full force....


----------



## Jeff Phillips (Apr 1, 2009)

Paul would have held the Easter Egg hunt and shared the Word while he had a crowd.

1 Corinthians 9:

19 Even though I am a free man with no master, I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ. 20 When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. 21 When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,[d] I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.

   22 When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.

New Living Translation


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Troublemaker....that is going to cost you on Mario Karts tonight.  We were feeling sorry for you after last week's stomping;  we were even thinking about letting you win this week so you didn't become too discouraged and give up Mario Karts.
> 
> Forget it now...It is on and the Paedo's will be out full force....



You make it sound as if I was a distant last.

2nd place isn't so bad.  I'll never give up Wed Night Karts....it is what I look forward to every week


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## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Banjo...
> post 102 talks about hotdogs and we should eat at home and not the church..
> 
> you agree in post 103
> ...



Just saw this post....went back and checked #102 and #103......just don't see where I agreed to eating at home and not church...and still NO mention of hotdogs.  

No circumlocution from me....and I would appreciate it if you represent me correctly.  If you want to know what I think, just ask; I have no problem expressing my opinions.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> I have no problem expressing my opinions.



I'll give that an Amen



Bring it on tonight.  Just this time, I'd like to see you get first place and not your daughters


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Just saw this post....went back and checked #102 and #103......just don't see where I agreed to eating at home and not church...and still NO mention of hotdogs.
> 
> No circumlocution from me....and I would appreciate it if you represent me correctly.  If you want to know what I think, just ask; I have no problem expressing my opinions.



So in post 103 you aren't saying 'well said' to post 102? Why did you quote the whole thing if you didn't mean well said to the whole thing? 

I have ask you several questions, and you keep saying the same thing over and over about hotdogs. Let's just drop it, about the hotdogs, ok?  
I'm pretty sure it's clear by the posts that you agreed to the post about not having food at church and said that your husband did too, then when I ask you about that you start talking about meeting people at homeschool, and the grocery store, then it comes out that you too have food at church.

I ask you if you knew pig, I mean other than being on here,  you didn't answer that.


----------



## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I'll give that an Amen
> 
> 
> 
> Bring it on tonight.  Just this time, I'd like to see you get first place and not your daughters




HEYYYY!!!!!

Who do you think trained them?  MarioKart Homeschool 101


----------



## Banjo (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> So in post 103 you aren't saying 'well said' to post 102? Why did you quote the whole thing if you didn't mean well said to the whole thing?
> 
> I have ask you several questions, and you keep saying the same thing over and over about hotdogs. Let's just drop it, about the hotdogs, ok?
> I'm pretty sure it's clear by the posts that you agreed to the post about not having food at church and said that your husband did too, then when I ask you about that you start talking about meeting people at homeschool, and the grocery store, then it comes out that you too have food at church.
> ...



Mtnwoman.....I would have NEVER agreed with not having food at church....NEVER....because I do it every week.  That would have been extremely hypocritical.  I do agree with not using food to attract (or bait if you will) the masses......

Like Free BBQ and Baptisms....or such....

I do not know Pigpen or his lovely wife, Peach.  I wish that I did....If I don't meet them on this side of heaven, I fully expect to meet them on the other side!

Hope this clears it up.....


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Help me Lord...
> 
> Pig did and you agreed with his take on this thing about feeding people and said your husband did, too. Do you know pig personally? I think y'all are running around the same bush.



 Nope, she doesn't know me personally, we have never met. There are several times Banjo and I have disagreed on here and by the way Banjo I don't know who's under the bus on this one....lol

 I live in extreme North East Georgia, the bushes we have up here are different than the ones in Macon where Banjo is.

  And by the way I didn't say we couldn't eat or have fellowship, just not things like that to "Draw People".

 While we are on this kind of subject, should churches have yard sales, doughnut sales, car washes, or sale raffle tickets???


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> While we are on this kind of subject, should churches have yard sales, doughnut sales, car washes, or sale raffle tickets???



We send our youth to NYC every summer to minister to the kids in the streets and parks. We have fund raisers to send them. We also have fund raisers to send kids to a Christian summer camp that can't afford to go.

One kid got his bike stolen while he was in the park (NYC) with our youth. Our kids took up a collection from their spending money to buy this kid a new bike.  Maybe they wonder "what" our kids have that would convict them to do that....think that might leave an impression or sow a seed?

Why do you ask? I'm sure I'll be sorry I ask...


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> We send our youth to NYC every summer to minister to the kids in the streets and parks. We have fund raisers to send them. We also have fund raisers to send kids to a Christian summer camp that can't afford to go.
> 
> One kid got his bike stolen while he was in the park (NYC) with our youth. Our kids took up a collection from their spending money to buy this kid a new bike.  Maybe they wonder "what" our kids have that would convict them to do that....think that might leave an impression or sow a seed?
> 
> Why do you ask? I'm sure I'll be sorry I ask...



 Where in the Bible does it teach for the church to merchandise anything to raise money?


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## dawg2 (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Where in the Bible does it teach for the church to merchandise anything to raise money?



....this is a funny thread....


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## farmasis (Apr 1, 2009)

There is a direct correlation of the number of things Christians do in apostasy as the number of those present whose job is to point them out.

<SUP>31</SUP> Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-26408 value="32">32</SUP> And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-26409 value="33">33</SUP> They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How _can_ You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-26410 value="34">34</SUP> Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-26411 value="35">35</SUP> And a slave does not abide in the house forever, _but_ a son abides forever. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-26412 value="36">36</SUP> Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (John 8)

Go to church Easter Sunday, worship God, thank Jesus for coming and dying for your wretched soul, and as long as you do not feel that letting your kids search for Easter eggs is wrong, then let them have some fun after letting them know the real reason we are celebrating.

 <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28276 value="1">1</SUP> Receive one who is weak in the faith, _but_ not to disputes over doubtful things. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28277 value="2">2</SUP> For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats _only_ vegetables. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28278 value="3">3</SUP> Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28279 value="4">4</SUP> Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28280 value="5">5</SUP> One person esteems _one_ day above another; another esteems every day _alike._ Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28281 value="6">6</SUP> He who observes the day, observes _it_ to the Lord;<SUP class=footnote value='[a]'>[a]</SUP> and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe _it._ He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28282 value="7">7</SUP> For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28283 value="8">8</SUP> For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28284 value="9">9</SUP> For to this end Christ died and rose<SUP class=footnote value='[b]'>[b]</SUP> and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28285 value="10">10</SUP> But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.<SUP class=footnote value='[c]'>[c]</SUP> <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28286 value="11">11</SUP> For it is written: 


_“ As_ _I live, says the LORD,_
_Every knee shall bow to Me,_
_And every tongue shall confess to God.”_<SUP class=footnote value='[d]'>[d]</SUP>

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28287 value="12">12</SUP> So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28288 value="13">13</SUP> Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in _our_ brother’s way. (Romans 14)


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> ....this is a funny thread....



 Yep, and it ain't even about Catholics....


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> And by the way I didn't say we couldn't eat or have fellowship, just not things like that to "Draw People".



Just not hotdogs or hamburgers, eh? You have to eat those at home. 

I was talking about an easter egg drop at the Y when you commented to my post. 
Not a fellowship at church....you're the one that brought up the point that having food at church as a draw was not a good idea....I was not even talking about that but your post was directed to the egg drop for the community.
We don't have food at our church to draw people either....however we do have BBQ and it's paid for by donations, but it isn't to draw people from outside the church....hopefully one or two might drop by.(gosh that ain't a bad thing is it?)... We don't put up signs about it either, like those handmade spaghetti dinner signs on the side of the road...and there ain't nothing wrong with that either, that might be a fund raiser for  a family in need....sheesh.

This sure has been something to naysay about....geewilikers. Could you be any more negative and argumentative over an easter egg/candy drop for a community of people/kids out of love?

Where do you launch your net out and pull it back in full? If you don't try to draw people to church, where do you snag them? I mean other than using your powerfully joyful and positive attidute.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Yep, and it ain't even about Catholics....



Catholics ain't funny  Well unless you call burying a statue of St Joseph in the front yard to sell your house....now I don't care who you are....


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Just not hotdogs or hamburgers, eh? You have to eat those at home.
> 
> I was talking about an easter egg drop at the Y when you commented to my post.
> Not a fellowship at church....you're the one that brought up the point that having food at church as a draw was not a good idea....I was not even talking about that but your post was directed to the egg drop for the community.
> ...



 Calm down Mtn woman, I still love you...
  Even if you have this pagan ritual at your church...lol


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Where in the Bible does it teach for the church to merchandise anything to raise money?


Where in the bible does it say to eat hotdogs at home....

Where does it say to raise money for missionaries or to build houses in south america?
Doesn't it say to go thru out the world and preach the gospel...didn't it say the apostles would be provided for along their way?
Didn't God say the feed my sheep....how can we feed the sheeplets in NYC unless we can get there.
You are something else.
I guess you figure every kid can pay his own way to get there and whats wrong with kids getting out and having a car wash to earn their own money?????????????

I honestly hope you aren't serious that you are just trying to get my dander up....I don't have any dander.

Where does it tell us in the bible how to slaughter and prepare animals for food, or what bait catches what fish?


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## dawg2 (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Calm down Mtn woman, I still love you...
> Even if you have this pagan ritual at your church...lol



I LOVE eating some DEVILed eggs


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Calm down Mtn woman, I still love you...
> Even if you have this pagan ritual at your church...lol



I'm calm as can be.

I just don't get your reasoning.

I'm wondering how people help other people without money. I know people that need help, and am willing to help them, but I don't have the money. If I can't fund raise, I guess I won't help them??? Sounds reasonable to me.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> I LOVE eating some DEVILed eggs



Me, too. Yum

We don't eat the crushed ones though....eeeeeeeeeek. Pleeeeeeeeease don't throw the eggs, that's supper..


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## Mako22 (Apr 1, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Easter bunny = fun for kids
> 
> Halloween = fun for kids



I am always amazed that professing believers can so easily embrace a holiday that is so blatantly centered on the Devil.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> I LOVE eating some DEVILed eggs


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Where in the bible does it say to eat hotdogs at home....
> 
> Where does it say to raise money for missionaries or to build houses in south america?
> Doesn't it say to go thru out the world and preach the gospel...didn't it say the apostles would be provided for along their way?
> ...





  Jesus said not to merchandise the House of God...

  And He also said to sale all that you have and give it to the poor[just don't sale it at church]...


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Where in the bible does it say to eat hotdogs



 I don't think it does.....do you know what them things are made of???


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> I am always amazed that professing believers can so easily embrace a holiday that is so blatantly centered on the Devil.



What holiday would that be? I don't know about you but Easter for me is centered on the death and resurrection of Christ, always has been always will be. We don't teach our children anything about dying eggs, like it's of the devil or something. Just like I don't celebrate super bowl, that's a useless space of airtime in the kingdom of God. Shouldn't we avoid all that violance, and speaking of hunting.....didn't pagans eat meat too? That's makes about as much sense.

It's not embracing a holiday like easter or halloween, it's an alternative. When I was a kid and in church, I didn't think halloween was evil....maybe it is, but in my heart (that God knows) I didn't celebrate it as a devils holiday.

Your post reminds me of this....Jehovahs Witnesses excuses for not celebrating Christmas....no alternative for their kids, they get to look on while other kids get to enjoy the holiday.

http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-jehovahs-witnesses-must-shun.html


Why Jehovah's Witnesses Must Shun Christmas 
All my life, growing up as a JW in the 1950s and 60s, I was taught the standard reasons Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas (while claiming to be Christian).

1. Jesus Christ was not born on December 25. The Witnesses claimed that Jesus was born in October. They didn't celebrate Christmas then either.

2. The date of Jesus' birth is not found in the Bible. They claim the only event in Jesus' life that occurred on an identifiable date was The Last Supper which was followed by his death.

3. Christmas is the celebration of a birthday. JWs do not celebrate birthdays (and claim the early Christians did not celebrate birthdays either).

4. They assert that the customs associated with the celebration of Christmas (including the date) have a Pagan origin.
>>>>
So we as Christians should avoid the Christmas season like the plague?

Could people just think that GOD took the BAD and made it for the GOOD?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I don't think it does.....do you know what them things are made of???



No and please don't tell me, that's about all I can afford in the meat department 

Gotta be better than 'possum helper, or kitty cassarole, or squirrel pot pie


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> No and please don't tell me, that's about all I can afford in the meat department
> 
> Gotta be better than 'possum helper, or kitty cassarole, or squirrel pot pie



 Nope, lips and rectums.....


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Jesus said not to merchandise the House of God...
> 
> And He also said to sale all that you have and give it to the poor[just don't sale it at church]...




Oh bull...

I wonder if I give those kids a bunch of my clothes they can trade them for gas for the bus trip to NYC?
Gee we are under the law after all.
Besides we don't have a car wash at the church, it's down the 'skreet'.

Hey, I'm poor. Somebody ain't doin' their job.
Well salvation army paid my light bill for me.....oooops and they sold stuff in their store, oh no 

I guess you've sold everything an given it to the poor? So you don't hunt and fish no mo'?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Nope, lips and rectums.....



Oh great, guess I'll have to eat mustard sandwiches now


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> I guess you've sold everything an given it to the poor?



 I tried to but no one would buy my junk, and the poor said what they have was better than mine.......


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## Madman (Apr 1, 2009)

> I am always amazed that professing believers can so easily embrace a holiday that is so blatantly centered on the Devil. ... Woodsman69



It would appear you think halloween is of the devil, if so you need to do a little research.  Halloween is All Hallows Eve, the evening before All Saints Day.

I am always amazed at the cheap grace that abounds in Christ's church, don't drink, don't dance, don't trick or treat but we are having a party at the church and you can come to that, we will look the other way if we think it will raise attendence.  Oh don't forget upward basketball, and cheerleading.

Christmas is the co-opting of a pagan holiday??  So what God takes bad things and makes them good, I am living proof.


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## PWalls (Apr 1, 2009)

It is amazing to me that seasoned veterens on this forum will continue to hash the same tired subjects continually over and over year after year. If those same veterens would do a "search" they would find the same thread with the same people voicing the same opinions year after year.

I guess I'll try and remember this post I made and copy/paste it for the "Halloween" threads and the "Christmas" threads that will also pop up year after year.


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## dawg2 (Apr 1, 2009)

PWalls said:


> It is amazing to me that seasoned veterens on this forum will continue to hash the same tired subjects continually over and over year after year. If those same veterens would do a "search" they would find the same thread with the same people voicing the same opinions year after year.
> 
> I guess I'll try and remember this post I made and copy/paste it for the "Halloween" threads and the "Christmas" threads that will also pop up year after year.


I didn't do it!


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## PWalls (Apr 1, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> I didn't do it!



Amdro works great on fireants.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

PWalls said:


> It is amazing to me that seasoned veterens on this forum will continue to hash the same tired subjects continually over and over year after year. If those same veterens would do a "search" they would find the same thread with the same people voicing the same opinions year after year.
> 
> I guess I'll try and remember this post I made and copy/paste it for the "Halloween" threads and the "Christmas" threads that will also pop up year after year.



 Its amazing to me that the same ones on here that fuss about the same threads appearing over and over keep going in an posting their same complaints about those same threads over and over...


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## leroy (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> ".
> 
> While we are on this kind of subject, should churches have yard sales, doughnut sales, car washes, or sale raffle tickets???



Up untill last year we had a fundraiser every Nov. started off with breakfast plates in the morning along with a yard sale, then that afternoon we had a chicken-Q then that night an auction, all auction and yard sale items were donated by out Church members. It made for a long day but we always had fun and alot of good fellowship and drew a few in over the years Our GA's (young girls class) are having a doughnut sale now paid for a box tonight at Church. Our youth usually have a car wash every year to help fund some of their trips.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 1, 2009)

leroy said:


> Up untill last year we had a fundraiser every Nov. started off with breakfast plates in the morning along with a yard sale, then that afternoon we had a chicken-Q then that night an auction, all auction and yard sale items were donated by out Church members. It made for a long day but we always had fun and alot of good fellowship and drew a few in over the years Our GA's (young girls class) are having a doughnut sale now paid for a box tonight at Church. Our youth usually have a car wash every year to help fund some of their trips.




 And we wonder why the lost people think the church is just a money racket, between the preachers on T.V begging for their money and the merchandising the House of God by the members, I can see why......

 When we ask people to come to church they say no all they want is our money.......


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## Ronnie T (Apr 1, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> And we wonder why the lost people think the church is just a money racket, between the preachers on T.V begging for their money and the merchandising the House of God by the members, I can see why......
> 
> When we ask people to come to church they say no all they want is our money.......



Take a seat pigpen, I agree with you.
Here at home I want to make sure we don't do anything that will not be a good, positive example of Christ's church.  I've heard of churches sponsoring an enormous yard sale in the church parking lot.  They painted a large sign that read:  

"Help us remodel our church kitchen.  
"Support our church yard sale."

If the kids want to have a car wash I think it gives them a great opportunity to work.  But don't advertise as though the church had stuck their kids out there to get some money.
It just needs to be well thought out.
Best thing to do is give as you've been prospered and don't do things you can't afford.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> And we wonder why the lost people think the church is just a money racket, between the preachers on T.V begging for their money and the merchandising the House of God by the members, I can see why......
> 
> When we ask people to come to church they say no all they want is our money.......



Doesn't the Bible tell us to take our tithes and offerings to the storehouse? Now I hope you don't still give grain instead of money.  That is what God tells us to do, we didn't make it up.

And the people that think that the church doesn't need money for missions and to help the poor and to feed the hungry, are blind to why we need that just like they are blind to Christianity. That's satans little weapon he uses against us....all the church wants is money......yeah debil, money to help folk. It's sheer ignorance and an excuse, just like all the people at church are hypocrites. Yeah as a matter of fact we are all hypocrites, and one more ain't gonna hurt


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> It just needs to be well thought out.
> Best thing to do is give as you've been prospered and don't do things you can't afford.



What if all I can afford is time? What if all I can do is bake cookies for a bake sale? What if all I can do is wash a car or two?

Why do girlscouts sell cookies? for their troup? for craft stuff? for uniforms that some can't afford? for trips that some can't afford?
I see nothing wrong with doing other things rather than depend on church given money to support things.

We have sports teams? know why? fellowship. Some of the kids may get an opportunity to minister to another kid.
They do bible study and have prayer and they get to play ball. They are gonna play ball anyway, might as well be involved in a Christian group. No?

In every aspect of our lives there are times that we have the opportunity to witness.
I doubt most kids on school teams witness...whatcha think?

People need to know how to witness...kids need to learn how to witness and approach folks and be discipled as well.

I'm sorry I totally disagree seperating parts of our lives from the church. If everything I do can help or be part of a church group that helps someone learn to do something then I'm all for it.

If I'm going to a cookout why not be with a church group? If I'm gonna play softball, why not do it with church members.

It's sort of like how people seperate their businesses from the church...
they sell used cars during the week like typical used car salesmen do. Not honest and out for YOUR money, too.
Keep business out of the church or let the church flow over to your business.

I make and sell jewelry for a living. Business is bad. I make jewelry as a Christian. I do honest work and make things to the best of my abililty since I'm a Christian all week in all things.

I can't seperate parts of my life from church. If I have a cookout away from church, I don't have beer.(for example) At my daughters wedding she refused to have an open bar at the reception. Just as an example. I'm always concerned how things will affect others. I'm sure some people thought wow, what hypocrytes not allowing alchohol....ya know that's too bad what they thought....we weren't concerned with what they thought, if we were we would've added alchohol to accomodate them.  We can be an example, but are not called to accomodate those who don't have right thinking with God.

If we have the mindset that all we do is for the church, or for Christ or for others then we do the best that we can.
If I need to donate clothes for a yard sale to send some kids to camp, then I can do that better than I can give money. Or I can have a yardsale and give them the money....I'm still doing it for the church.

I'm sorry I just try not to do things that I consider wouldn't be good enough to do at church, even if it is eating hotdogs.....LOL.

If some of y'all will change your mindset to everything you do you do for Christ or thru Christ you'll become to understand some things that people do and why they do them. And if there's things you do at home that you wouldn't do at church, then you might reconsider those things.

Don't go to a church yardsale if you think they are raising money to better their church or make their church bigger if it bothers you. I've never been convicted of not helping someone, no matter what I judged them on. Lord, if we did that we'd all have excuses for not doing anything. I won't support a church group because donuts are fattening and we don't need all that sugar....always some lame excuse.

Our church grew from 200 people to 2000 in about 5 years.  We didn't have enough seating for all those people. People were standing all around the walls.
We built a gym and now that is used as the sancuary and the school and a gym. Did we need money for that? Did it keep people coming to church? is that what we want to happen? 
I'm sure some of the naysayers around the hood thought badly of us for making room for the sheep, by having yard sales, bakes sales, etc etc etc. They are simply ignorant of what Jesus says...."when you have done ALL you can do then I"..

I guess I'm just tooooooo positive on some of these things.

Acts 14:27
And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Acts 15:4
And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.


1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


1 Corinthians 14:40
Let all things be done decently and in order.

1 Corinthians 16:14
Let all your things be done with charity


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

When Jesus said to give to the poor, feed the hungry, did He give us examples of things to do or not to do? Did he expect us to only trade sheep? or grow corn and trade it?

No He gave us a brain to come up with something, and it might be different for all of us.

If you (personally) don't have enough money to fully fund something for the church, I'd like to see y'all's ideas on how you'd come up with that money.  Maybe I'll start a new thread about that, later on this morning.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> When Jesus said to give to the poor, feed the hungry, did He give us examples of things to do or not to do? Did he expect us to only trade sheep? or grow corn and trade it?
> 
> No He gave us a brain to come up with something, and it might be different for all of us.
> 
> If you (personally) don't have enough money to fully fund something for the church, I'd like to see y'all's ideas on how you'd come up with that money.  Maybe I'll start a new thread about that, later on this morning.



 You can have yard sales, bake sales, car washes, etc. Just leave the church out of it. What would be wrong with having a yard sale at your home and the take what you have earned and when the collecting plate comes around on Sunday, drop it in. The Church receives money, the lost has one less stumbling block and you get the satisfaction of being able to help.

  And by the way if Gods people would give to the Church as they have been prospered there will be more than enough for the needs of the Church, the problem is when most that go to Church spend more at the restaurant after Church for lunch than what they put in the collection...


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## Banjo (Apr 2, 2009)

> And by the way if Gods people would give to the Church as they have been prospered there will be more than enough for the needs of the Church, the problem is when most that go to Church spend more at the restaurant after Church for lunch than what they put in the collection...



Well....when you get rid of the Law, which includes 10% tithing, and replace it with just "offerings" many Christians don't feel led to offer anything.  

A healthy church has most, if not all, of its members tithing.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 2, 2009)

What about raffle tickets, how many of you sell them to win quilts or other donated items??


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> You can have yard sales, bake sales, car washes, etc. Just leave the church out of it. What would be wrong with having a yard sale at your home and the take what you have earned and when the collecting plate comes around on Sunday, drop it in. The Church receives money, the lost has one less stumbling block and you get the satisfaction of being able to help.
> 
> And by the way if Gods people would give to the Church as they have been prospered there will be more than enough for the needs of the Church, the problem is when most that go to Church spend more at the restaurant after Church for lunch than what they put in the collection...



Yep. Right on the money.



Banjo said:


> Well....when you get rid of the Law, which includes 10% tithing, and replace it with just "offerings" many Christians don't feel led to offer anything.
> 
> A healthy church has most, if not all, of its members tithing.



So true. Wonder why that is that way??? Could it be that we really need the law???


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> You can have yard sales, bake sales, car washes, etc. Just leave the church out of it. What would be wrong with having a yard sale at your home and the take what you have earned and when the collecting plate comes around on Sunday, drop it in. The Church receives money, the lost has one less stumbling block and you get the satisfaction of being able to help.
> 
> And by the way if Gods people would give to the Church as they have been prospered there will be more than enough for the needs of the Church, the problem is when most that go to Church spend more at the restaurant after Church for lunch than what they put in the collection...



Why the heck would you want to leave the church out of it?
Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to witness? Jesus is ALL things to me. I don't leave Him out of anything that I do.

If I were not a Christian, I might likely ask someone at a church sale about Jesus, rather than someone at their home having a yard sale.

I still stick to my opinion of using ANY and every opportunity to witness. 

When I came back to the fold I was inspired by a black preacher that came in twice a month to pay his phone bill. I finally had the opportunity to ask him about his church...which ended up being a wonderful storefront church in the middle of the hood and cracktown. 
There were some awesome things happen at that church of about 20 people. I'm sure Jesus sent that man to snatch me back...I have no doubt....not one bit.

I learned how to witness right outside the front door. We had walk ins right off the street wanting to know where they could get food and help...etc etc. And I'm talking about a bad part of town. I learned how to pray in public and not be nervous and participate and ask questions in bible study that I may have been to shy to ask in a mainstream church.

We were there for about a year. When we did find a regular church we wanted to attend we had a steady foot in the word...thanks to a black pastor in a teenie weenie street missions church.

I didn't ask everyone that paid their phone bill about Jesus, I ask the man that I knew that probably would have the answers. 

I think ANYTHING that gets a crowd together and gives you an opportunity to even just say the name of Jesus is a good thing. 

I much rather approach folks on holy ground than chase them down in the super market, and bother them while they are buying hotdogs...


Can I have a yard sale at home and give it to the church? yeah but I wouldn't have much of a draw with my little bit of stuff...however with a huge church yard full of my stuff and a bunch of other peoples stuff, I think we'd make more money. Group effort, isn't that what the church is for.
More bang for the time spent.

If I can have a yard sale at home for Jesus, then I can just have church service at home for Jesus... one can only slay 1000 but 2 can slay 10,000. I'll stick with the group effort...the church.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> And by the way if Gods people would give to the Church as they have been prospered there will be more than enough for the needs of the Church, the problem is when most that go to Church spend more at the restaurant after Church for lunch than what they put in the collection...



Ok so all the kids that have a car wash because they want to have money for their missions trip, should just learn that if they don't work for it that someone will/should just GIVE it to them? WOW.

So now you're condemning folks for eating at restaurants...you don't like people giving food away at church.....what do you like for folks to do? just eat hotdogs at home and invite  folks over from the super market that they chased down and handed a pamphlet. Talking about running around the mulberry bush, you are good at it.


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

Because there are things that are appropriate to Church and things that are not. Simple as that. The Worship of the Almighty God is appropriate at church. Not a yard sale. Not bingo. Not whatever someone's heart desires.

We should not be showing movies like Fireproof at church. A church right down the road from me is doing this tonight thru Saturday.

And the reason you can't have church at home is it is too dangerous. We had this discussion just last night. People baptizing their kids in the tub and having communion and being their own priest and holy man. The communion and worshiping together is why we gather together as a congregation to worship Him.

So if we take this to the logical conclusion of your statement. 

"I think ANYTHING that gets a crowd together and gives you an opportunity to even just say the name of Jesus is a good thing. " 

Can we offer free cell phone minutes? Cash? What about showing light porn instead of XXX to get those addicted to porn into the church (or rather there more often)? Free liquor on Friday night to get the alcoholics in? 

Where's the line? And who's to decide? 

That is why there is such a thing as the regulative principle of worship.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Yep. Right on the money.
> 
> 
> 
> So true. Wonder why that is that way??? Could it be that we really need the law???



So you agree to, that the church should provide everything everyone needs in the church. That the kids shouldn't have a car wash for their missions trip or whatever,  that the tithers will pay for it?

We don't teach our children that here....we teach them to work for their money.
If they want to go to camp...we let all the kids earn their money to go. 
Do we have wealthy people in our church that could pay for that, you betcha we do...but that won't teach the kids anything.

Help us Jesus....


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

Yes he should help you.

The people of the Church should provide for the workings of the church. Simple as that.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Yes he should help you.
> 
> The people of the Church should provide for the workings of the church. Simple as that.



Ok whatever.
Our church does have offerings and tithers, big tithers that's how we built our new gym/sactuary.

So the church should pay for the kids missions trips and their summer christian camps and the ladies retreats or men's retreats, or the couples retreats?

My daughter homeschools her children as many do at our church. Some others go to the Christian School, if they can't afford it then there is money taken from donations given to the school. 
We want to teach our children how to work in an honest way. Teach them to use that as a tool to witness. Wear tshirts with the name of our church, hopefully getting some questions as to what our church offers or what Jesus is about and how the kids think it's cool to love Jesus...and they are proud of it. They are not ashamed to do anything in the name of Christ, washing cars is not beneath them. Of course they don't have a car wash at the church they do it at a car wash....couldn't do it at my mobile home park, nor could I have a yard sale.

Like I said we want to teach our own children how to work and earn money for things they want, things they need, things other people need and things that less privilaged kids can be included. Doing that with all hope of witnessing thru that process.


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Ok whatever.
> Our church does have offerings and tithers, big tithers that's how we built our new gym/sactuary.
> 
> So the church should pay for the kids missions trips and their summer christian camps and the ladies retreats or men's retreats, or the couples retreats?



SHould have done it with the money you spent on a gym.


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## earl (Apr 2, 2009)

[The Worship of the Almighty God is appropriate at church. Not a yard sale. Not bingo. Not whatever someone's heart desires.]
quote 
Does that include an internet forum ?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> We should not be showing movies like Fireproof at church. A church right down the road from me is doing this tonight thru Saturday.



Why not the movie Fireproof?  What is wrong with showing that on a Saturday evening or a Sunday evening followed up by marriage counseling or someother type of outreach event?



mtnwoman said:


> Ok whatever.
> Our church does have offerings and tithers, big tithers that's how we built our new gym/sactuary.



Tithing....wow...that has to be one of my favorite discussions.

Mtnwoman....let me ask you this....is Tithing a NT concept or an OT concept?  What is the % that Tithing represents in the Bible?


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Why not the movie Fireproof?  What is wrong with showing that on a Saturday evening or a Sunday evening followed up by marriage counseling or someother type of outreach event?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why should it be shown?

Tithing... Now you have gone and done it!!!


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## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Why should it be shown?



It will help encourage baby making


No...in all seriousness...it lays out the gospel message as well as might help married couples re-evaluate their relationships.  Go read this thread.  Might help you understand what it can do.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=289990


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> It will help encourage baby making
> 
> 
> No...in all seriousness...it lays out the gospel message as well as might help married couples re-evaluate their relationships.  Go read this thread.  Might help you understand what it can do.
> ...



I still see no reason for it to be shown in church. I have no issue with the marriage counseling and maybe a marriage bible study. 

Not just picking on it because it was a baptist church who produced it. Just see no reason for it.


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## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

Here we go..............


Ok. TO MW defense. And no I would never advocate an anything goes method of winning the lost. That's God roll and He does it perfectly without manipulation. Nor am I for activities taken place on the Lord's Day that God hasn't warranted. 

BUT!! Since many on here claim to be history buffs you should also recognize that the church building was the in the center of town and was also the center of many civic meetings. 

If we place this huge wedge between the SACRED and SECULAR are we defeating what we state to believe which is the gospel is for all of life without dichotomy? What is wrong with using the property of the church for innocent and harmless functions taken place at other times than the Lord's Day. Careful we don't make a distinction scripture doesn't make in or zeal to be faithful. That would be Phariseeism.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Tithing....wow...that has to be one of my favorite discussions.
> 
> Mtnwoman....let me ask you this....is Tithing a NT concept or an OT concept?  What is the % that Tithing represents in the Bible?



We are not required to tithe as in the OT....especially with grain..
We are ask to give ALL we have in the NT.
Offerings to give out of what we have and what we can in the NT. Which leaves things wide open to interpretation.
Money out of what I have left? Money out of what I started with? Doesn't some of my taxes go for welfare which is what some of the tithes were used for in the OT?

I don't believe that the OT verse, 'bring your tithes and offerings into the storehouse' should be kicked under the rug either. I believe it's a great guideline for us.
It also says "IF you will bring your tithes and offerings to the store house, prove me if I will not pour out a blessing that you cannot contain"....I believe that verse is still valid, but not required.

Just like I believe that God restores us and gives us our life back, the part of our life that the devil stole...that's in the OT.  I don't think that's gone because we're NT now.

I don't want to get into tithing either, it's too drawn out and too many people are convicted of too many different things.
If you aren't diligent enough to give what you think God wants you to give then 10% is a good guideline as I said, if you don't know, I mean.

We have a lot of tithers at our church. My son in law for one. He gives a tithe and also an offering. They teach their children to do that out of their money, as a guideline.
My SIL is extremely prosperous and it's just been since he started tithing, too. He was offered a job a few years ago that doubled his income. That may not last forever...but God knows what He's doing so we won't worry about it.

I can only give an offering now. And sometimes it's not money, it's helping someone, or cooking for someone, or cleaning for someone. I might only have TIME to give. 
I did much better when I tithed as far as disciplining myself...it saved me from hearing a million different reasons to why we should or shouldn't tithe or why we don't have to now or what we should give.

My daughter has 3 jars for each girl. One to save, one for the church and one for them to spend. They are also taught that if someone else needs something that they may have to take out of their spending money and give to someone else.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> Here we go..............
> 
> 
> Ok. TO MW defense.*Thanks!* And no I would never advocate an anything goes method of winning the lost.*Me either.* That's God roll and He does it perfectly without manipulation. Nor am I for activities taken place on the Lord's Day that God hasn't warranted. *I agree. *
> ...



We don't only have people out of the church trying to tell us what we can't do in name of God, we have folks on the inside of the church telling us what we can't do in the name of God.

Nice post.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> SHould have done it with the money you spent on a gym.



As I posted in another thread, we needed seating for 2000 folks. And you must of read that IF you knew about the gym. Help me Lord...LOL. We only had seating for about 600 in the old sactuary. The old sanctuary is now sunday school rooms and the gym is the new sanctuary. The gym serves as the sanctuary, gym, fellowship hall, and the Christian school.

Or we could've done like you said and turn away the 1200 folks and used the money for something else rather than teaching our children how to work for money when they want something....that makes a lot of sense....  I think that's a brilliant idea....I'll tell the church officers you said they shoulda sent kids on a missions trip to get more people in the church so you can turn them away because there isn't enough seating...

We grew from about 200 folks and in 5 years have about 2000. We have a great bible teacher, and the church must be doing something right.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> We are not required to tithe as in the OT....especially with grain..
> We are ask to give ALL we have in the NT.
> Offerings to give out of what we have and what we can in the NT. Which leaves things wide open to interpretation.
> Money out of what I have left? Money out of what I started with? Doesn't some of my taxes go for welfare which is what some of the tithes were used for in the OT?
> ...



Alrighty....sounds good to me.  I won't  anymore...just frustrates me to hear preachers get up and get on the Tithing bandwagon when the only time it is mentioned in the NT it is shown negatively.  And in the OT, it was much great than 10% (actually closer to 25-30%).

Just a pet peeve of mine.  The ignorance of some Christians.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Just a pet peeve of mine.  The ignorance of some Christians.



Yeah well they'll get it if we say it over and over and over again....


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 2, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> I am always amazed that professing believers can so easily embrace a holiday that is so blatantly centered on the Devil.



Yep....be AMAZED my friend.

Here is Satan's most recent convert last night.  Doesn't she look evil?  I'm pretty sure we covered our church grounds with evil spirits last night.

I did my best to make sure her salvation was put in as much jeopardy as possible.

You people are ridiculous!!!!!

It's all in fun folks.  Get over yourselves.  It's only centered on the Devil if you ALLOW IT TO BE!!!!


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> Here we go..............
> 
> 
> Ok. TO MW defense. And no I would never advocate an anything goes method of winning the lost. That's God roll and He does it perfectly without manipulation. Nor am I for activities taken place on the Lord's Day that God hasn't warranted.
> ...



I would agree that the Church has been and should be the center of the community. I am from a small town. Shoot everything we did was at church. 

BUT I have an issue with stuff like fireproof being shown. It is fine if a group wants to go see it and discuss it but showing it in the church puts a certain stamp of approval on it. Not sure I am comfortable with that. Just my position at this time.

Same thing with charging for car washes and etc. The people of the church should pay for the actions of the church. This has been a tough one for me to learn. I have raised tens of thousands for CCA, DU (I still hold the record in SC for the largest amount raised in a silent auction. I sold a confederate battle flag to a yankee for $8,000.00), and other organizations so this in a Church is hard for me to not do. But I do not believe it is what we are called to do there.


----------



## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> As I posted in another thread, we needed seating for 2000 folks. And you must of read that IF you knew about the gym. Help me Lord...LOL. We only had seating for about 600 in the old sactuary. The old sanctuary is now sunday school rooms and the gym is the new sanctuary. The gym serves as the sanctuary, gym, fellowship hall, and the Christian school.
> 
> Or we could've done like you said and turn away the 1200 folks and used the money for something else rather than teaching our children how to work for money when they want something....that makes a lot of sense....  I think that's a brilliant idea....I'll tell the church officers you said they shoulda sent kids on a missions trip to get more people in the church so you can turn them away because there isn't enough seating...
> 
> We grew from about 200 folks and in 5 years have about 2000. We have a great bible teacher, and the church must be doing something right.



Where did I say turn them away??? 

You have an amazing gift of putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things I have never done nor said.

I said if you wanted to do those things then you should have spent the money on it. So you couldn't grow the church with church plants? Are all those people from right there? Can someone serve ALL of those people properly?


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

Huntinfool, what a lovely little angel. She is so cute. Thanks for letting her take joy in what Christ has done for us. She may not exactly understand it now. Keeping her attention on that might not always be so easily done...come as little children.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Yep....be AMAZED my friend.
> 
> Here is Satan's most recent convert last night.  Doesn't she look evil?  I'm pretty sure we covered our church grounds with evil spirits last night.
> 
> ...





Well...atleast she's wearing a dress and not pants


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Where did I say turn them away???
> 
> You have an amazing gift of putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things I have never done nor said.
> 
> I said if you wanted to do those things then you should have spent the money on it. So you couldn't grow the church with church plants? Are all those people from right there? Can someone serve ALL of those people properly?



Didn't you say instead of building a gym...wouldn't that turn people away if they didn't have a place to sit. Some of them have stood up for a year while construction was being done. And it's a metal building at that.

How would you not turn them away? Don't build the gym like you said would turn them away.

ALL those people....Good Lord...what are you talking about?...God can do ALL things thru us...
We have a pastor, 2 asst pastors, a youth pastor an assistant youth pastor, school teachers, and 2000 volunteers.


So you're saying we shouldn't have youth missions and build the gym or not build the gym and pay for youth missions when they can work and get their own money, as they should learn to do.

ETA we have 3 satellite churches, too. One in sylva, one at a cafe at the end of the road where the singles meet, and one at another small church. He's broadcast all the way from Asheville to Charlotte. He's a pretty funny guy, too.
He came from a country bunkin' to a great Bible teacher in a few years. 
Nothing like being in the main sanctuary though during praise and worship.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Well...atleast she's wearing a dress and not pants



stick your head down here....


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> BUT I have an issue with stuff like fireproof being shown. It is fine if a group wants to go see it and discuss it but showing it in the church puts a certain stamp of approval on it. Not sure I am comfortable with that. Just my position at this time.



So what in the movie would you not put your stamp of approval on?  Just wondering.

Okay...so the acting is a bit cheeeeezy at parts, but really, I don't know of any part of the movie that is questionable.


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## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Didn't you say instead of building a gym...wouldn't that turn people away if they didn't have a place to sit. Some of them have stood up for a year while construction was being done. And it's a metal building at that.
> 
> How would you not turn them away? Don't build the gym like you said would turn them away.
> 
> ...



When you are still and quiet for minute maybe you will READ what I write and not insinuate. 

#1- You missed the entire point of what I was asking. 

#2- You believe 3 pastors can minister to 2000 people? And I no longer wonder about some of your ideas...

#3- Teaching kids to work is one thing. Church functions are another. You want to ask for donations that's fine. Not charging $10 for a bad car wash. What does that teach them?


----------



## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> So what in the movie would you not put your stamp of approval on?  Just wondering.
> 
> Okay...so the acting is a bit cheeeeezy at parts, but really, I don't know of any part of the movie that is questionable.



It's not my stamp I am referring to. I have no issues with it. Never seen it never heard anything bad about it. I know the people who produced it. I've worked with that Church before. I am not saying I wouldn't benefit from seeing it or not like it. 

When it is in church though it is given the approval of the Church. I have an issue with that.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> When you are still and quiet for minute maybe you will READ what I write and not insinuate.
> 
> #1- You missed the entire point of what I was asking.
> 
> ...



You think all 2000 people are idiots? We have small groups and leaders of small groups. We have deacons.

Do you believe Billy Graham can minister to 2000 people at once?

And our kids don't do bad car washes....the preacher has warned them, don't do anything regarding N. Asheville Baptist Church that might be negative.

If you can't commend children for earning their own mission money so that they all appear to be equal, then you have a problem.

Don't worry nor judge my ideas.....YOU are not called to do that, now are you?

I don't even have to read your entire post (even though I do) to know that you will dis anything I have to say.


----------



## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> I would agree that the Church has been and should be the center of the community. I am from a small town. Shoot everything we did was at church.
> 
> BUT I have an issue with stuff like fireproof being shown. It is fine if a group wants to go see it and discuss it but showing it in the church puts a certain stamp of approval on it. Not sure I am comfortable with that. Just my position at this time.
> 
> Same thing with charging for car washes and etc. The people of the church should pay for the actions of the church. This has been a tough one for me to learn. I have raised tens of thousands for CCA, DU (I still hold the record in SC for the largest amount raised in a silent auction. I sold a confederate battle flag to a yankee for $8,000.00), and other organizations so this in a Church is hard for me to not do. But I do not believe it is what we are called to do there.



Sure, I understand. As a pastor I have to be so careful about the opinions of the folks. Meaning this persons wants this, and, that person wants that. Which is imperative that we maintain a biblical foundation so all have equal footing. We can do this because it doesn't violate scripture even though it will not please everyone. Or we can't do that because it does violate scripture and thats not going to please everyone. 

You do have to be careful about placing a wholesale stamp of approval on anything. This provides the leadership an opportunity to have open discussions about the differences and why they are important. 

Hey, we all know that churches are full of cowardly pastors who are not going to do anything to jeopardize  their pay check. But we also cannot let the opinions of the people rule either. Its Christ Church and he has the final say. I know must of us believe this.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> It's not my stamp I am referring to. I have no issues with it. Never seen it never heard anything bad about it. I know the people who produced it. I've worked with that Church before. I am not saying I wouldn't benefit from seeing it or not like it.
> 
> When it is in church though it is given the approval of the Church. I have an issue with that.



I kinda figured you hadn't seen it yet.  If you'd like to borrow my copy, your welcome to it.  Might change your opinion on it once you've seen it...and I can guarantee you that your wife will enjoy it too.

I have no problem with my church giving their approval to this movie.  Actually...according to you, our church has


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> So what in the movie would you not put your stamp of approval on?  Just wondering.
> 
> Okay...so the acting is a bit cheeeeezy at parts, but really, I don't know of any part of the movie that is questionable.



His stamp of approval goes on nothing.......

My daughter and son in law went to see it somewhere, not at church.
My daughter said it humbled her and her husband who is a chauvenistic pig...LOL....for real. He who has the money is in command, that's his motto.


----------



## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I kinda figured you hadn't seen it yet.  If you'd like to borrow my copy, your welcome to it.  Might change your opinion on it once you've seen it...and I can guarantee you that your wife will enjoy it too.
> 
> I have no problem with my church giving their approval to this movie.  Actually...according to you, our church has



Maybe I should clear this up again. It is not because it is a baptist movie. Not because it is whatever or even a good movie.

I don't believe it has any business in the church. Just that simple. Would say the same about A Man Called Peter. Also would say the same about the Passion.


----------



## celticfisherman (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> His stamp of approval goes on nothing.......
> 
> My daughter and son in law went to see it somewhere, not at church.
> My daughter said it humbled her and her husband who is a chauvenistic pig...LOL....for real. He who has the money is in command, that's his motto.



Great to see you openly bashing your son-in-law. Wow what a testimony to your daughter. 

I don't have a stamp of approval. Yours however must not have any ink left since it seems to go on everything and everyone. Well except me.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Great to see you openly bashing your son-in-law. Wow what a testimony to your daughter. *You're so dramatic....LOL....he's the one that says he is and I call him King David....I'm not trying to hide it.*
> 
> I don't have a stamp of approval. Yours however must not have any ink left since it seems to go on everything and everyone. Well except me.



I don't get the ink thing on my stamp??? if it doesn't have any ink how can it go on everyone or everything?
I've agreed with you many times on many things, at least until you started dotting my eye on everything I said...then I figured you just didn't like me.

I like you, but I don't like to be picked on, ya know?


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> Maybe I should clear this up again. It is not because it is a baptist movie. Not because it is whatever or even a good movie.
> 
> I don't believe it has any business in the church. Just that simple. Would say the same about A Man Called Peter. Also would say the same about the Passion.



I don't think most people in the church needed to see the Passion. It's the nonbelievers that need that movie.
I don't know about the one y'all are talking about, I haven't seen it. Didn't see the Passion either.

My grandmas, both of them, thought going to the movies was a bad thing, guess I'm too paranoid to go to movies now.....LOL...see how things can warp your brain.
I don't logically think it's wrong to go to the movies of course, I guess it's just that I didn't want to disobey them...really I don't know what it is, but I don't go. And I don't care or see anything wrong with other people going...even though I think some movies are just too uh, let's see, violent, sexual, etc.


----------



## earl (Apr 2, 2009)

In the old , old ,old days they used to feed the christians to the lions . It's a shame they didn't realize that it is much more entertaining to feed the christians to the christians.


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## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

earl said:


> In the old , old ,old days they used to feed the christians to the lions . It's a shame they didn't realize that it is much more entertaining to feed the christians to the christians.



Simply in poor taste.


----------



## Huntinfool (Apr 2, 2009)

I actually thought it was kind of profound....





Perhaps not more "entertaining"....but certainly more vicious.


----------



## leroy (Apr 2, 2009)

Give up mt woman. I knew I would get flamed for my posts on fundraisers but it dosent bother me at all my heart is clear on that, our easter egg hunts, our haloscene (alternate to haloween), and our showing of the Fireproof movie which I thought was a super movie and would be a great thing for any Church. As I have said on here multiple times coming on here and seeing how some think makes me realize how lucky I am for my Church.


----------



## leroy (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> Here we go..............
> 
> 
> Ok. TO MW defense. And no I would never advocate an anything goes method of winning the lost. That's God roll and He does it perfectly without manipulation. Nor am I for activities taken place on the Lord's Day that God hasn't warranted.
> ...




Good post Pastor!


----------



## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Alrighty....sounds good to me.  I won't  anymore...just frustrates me to hear preachers get up and get on the Tithing bandwagon when the only time it is mentioned in the NT it is shown negatively.  And in the OT, it was much great than 10% (actually closer to 25-30%).
> 
> Just a pet peeve of mine.  The ignorance of some Christians.



I think this is a prime example and application to differences that we have based on our interpretation of scripture. 

I would encourage you to look more closely at the OT tithe. The Lord has always required all, it is all His, He graciously gives to us so that we would use these resources in glorifying Him and advancing our own lives. That's not something the NT has over the OT. Plus, where we part ways is the use of the OT. When God gives commandments we are expected to keep them until He tells us other wise. You on the other hand, correct me if I am wrong, believe that God must repeat Himself in the NT in order for it to be binding on NT christians. 

This is a huge difference. I would like for you to give the verse that state the tithe in a negative light. Its sinful for a church to demand anything for its members that God hasn't demanded. Likewise,  its just as sinful for a church not to demand what God has demanded. God is gracious.


----------



## threeleggedpigmy (Apr 2, 2009)

oops! it got back o line.


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

earl said:


> In the old , old ,old days they used to feed the christians to the lions . It's a shame they didn't realize that it is much more entertaining to feed the christians to the christians.



Oh but we learn things this way. You'd be surprised at how I used to look at a lot of things, and after a good knock down drag out, came to the conclusion and conviction that the other person was right. It's sort of like giving birth or a labor of love...


----------



## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

leroy said:


> Give up mt woman. I knew I would get flamed for my posts on fundraisers but it dosent bother me at all my heart is clear on that, our easter egg hunts, our haloscene (alternate to haloween), and our showing of the Fireproof movie which I thought was a super movie and would be a great thing for any Church. As I have said on here multiple times coming on here and seeing how some think makes me realize how lucky I am for my Church.



I guess that was my point about going to the movies. Something I learned as a child has warped my thinking. Like you can't dance....yet David danced...wished I would've had that verse when my grandmas were alive...

One of my grandmas used to give us her leftover magazines, and that was after tearing out pages or marking out stuff that she didn't want my mother or us to read. Go figure, my mother was an adult, too. LOL..and the mags were better homes and gardens and stuff like that.

I think some people cling to old things from old people. Some of those things are good to cling to, but some aren't.
If it puts you in bondage to do or not to do something...we have to remember that Jesus set us free.
My grandmother would crawl to church because she thought it wrong to miss church....even when she had bone cancer she would go and suffer like a dog. Jesus doesn't put that kind of yoke on us. He knows our hearts. He would be mighty cruel if He was that kind of redeemer.

He knows our hearts about how to help others, maybe a churchyard sale isn't becoming to some, but it's an affair of the heart...that's what God looks at. Anyway I guess some like to put a heavy 'don't do that' yoke on us...but Jesus' yoke is light.


----------



## earl (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> Simply in poor taste.



Actually most leave a BAD taste.


----------



## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> I think this is a prime example and application to differences that we have based on our interpretation of scripture.
> 
> I would encourage you to look more closely at the OT tithe. The Lord has always required all, it is all His, He graciously gives to us so that we would use these resources in glorifying Him and advancing our own lives. That's not something the NT has over the OT. Plus, where we part ways is the use of the OT. When God gives commandments we are expected to keep them until He tells us other wise. You on the other hand, correct me if I am wrong, believe that God must repeat Himself in the NT in order for it to be binding on NT christians.
> 
> This is a huge difference. I would like for you to give the verse that state the tithe in a negative light. Its sinful for a church to demand anything for its members that God hasn't demanded. Likewise,  its just as sinful for a church not to demand what God has demanded. God is gracious.




No...that is not what I believe (what is in Red).  God has always required our all...OT and NT.  But when it comes to the tithe, that in the OT was a tax.  10% for the temple, 10% for the festivals and 10% every 3rd year for the poor.  23% per year.  Then add on the fact that you couldn't harvest the corners of your fields and the year of jubilee....gets you closer to 28%.  Here's a great message on tithing.  You can download it for free if you don't want to read.  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/42-208

Now...about the NT, don't have it off the top of my head, but if I recall, it was brought up twice and both times, Christ is showing the legalism of the Scribes/Pharisees of the day.  But, as you say, we need to give our all, like Christ pointed out with the story of the rich young ruler.

Actually, another great message on the Widow's mite is here.  Comes from a totally different perspective and I've never heard it preached this way before.  Another good one to listen to on giving.

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/42-251


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## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> No...that is not what I believe (what is in Red).  God has always required our all...OT and NT.  But when it comes to the tithe, that in the OT was a tax.  10% for the temple, 10% for the festivals and 10% every 3rd year for the poor.  23% per year.  Then add on the fact that you couldn't harvest the corners of your fields and the year of jubilee....gets you closer to 28%.  Here's a great message on tithing.  You can download it for free if you don't want to read.  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/42-208
> 
> Now...about the NT, don't have it off the top of my head, but if I recall, it was brought up twice and both times, Christ is showing the legalism of the Scribes/Pharisees of the day.  But, as you say, we need to give our all, like Christ pointed out with the story of the rich young ruler.
> 
> ...




I am going to post more on the tithe  but a question then I have to run. 

Since there is continuity between the OT and NT do you practice this according to your view of OT tithe?


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## farmasis (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> You on the other hand, correct me if I am wrong, believe that God must repeat Himself in the NT in order for it to be binding on NT christians.


 
If I may....

The OT was written to Israel and the Jewish people. It is of GREAT worth, even to the modern church. It reveals the character of God, it explains how gentiles recieved salvation, it establishes God's law, etc.
But, it is not written to the church today.
If you believe it is, do you observe the food laws?
Can we eat shrimp or clams?
<SUP>9</SUP> ‘These you may eat of all that _are_ in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers—that you may eat. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-3008 value="10">10</SUP> But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which _is_ in the water, they _are_ an abomination to you. (Lev. 11)

What about stoning your children for disobedience? 

<SUP>18</SUP> “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and _who,_ when they have chastened him, will not heed them, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-5467 value="19">19</SUP> then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-5468 value="20">20</SUP> And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-5469 value="21">21</SUP> Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear. (Deu. 21)

Do you observe the three feasts commanded?

<SUP>18</SUP> “The Feast of Unleavened Bread you shall keep. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, in the appointed time of the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt. 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2516 value="19">19</SUP> “All that open the womb _are_ Mine, and every male firstborn among your livestock, _whether_ ox or sheep. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2517 value="20">20</SUP> But the firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb. And if you will not redeem _him,_ then you shall break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. 
“And none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2518 value="21">21</SUP> “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; in plowing time and in harvest you shall rest. 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2519 value="22">22</SUP> “And you shall observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end. 
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2520 value="23">23</SUP> “Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-2521 value="24">24</SUP> For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year. (Ex. 34)

Yes, The NT comfirmed what gentile Christians should observe in the OT.


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## Banjo (Apr 2, 2009)

MTNWOMAN, MTNWOMAN, MTNWOMAN.....
(just making sure you see this)

I just found out what the families on snack duty are preparing for our fellowship meal after Sunday night's worship service.

Can you guess what it is?


HOTDOGS!!!!!


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## earl (Apr 2, 2009)

Here we go cherry picking again. Is it ok to eat cherry pie in church ?


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## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> I am going to post more on the tithe  but a question then I have to run.
> 
> Since there is continuity between the OT and NT do you practice this according to your view of OT tithe?



Yes....as it still applies.  I believe Jesus was asked a similar question by the Pharisees.  I'd respond the same way.

Luke 20

19  The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them. 

 20  So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, in order that they might catch Him in some statement, so that they could deliver Him to the rule and the authority of the governor. 

 21  They questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, we know that You speak and teach correctly, and You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. 

 22  "Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?" 

 23  But He detected their trickery and said to them, 

 24  "Show Me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have?" They said, "Caesar's." 

 25  And He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." 

 26  And they were unable to catch Him in a saying in the presence of the people; and being amazed at His answer, they became silent


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## reformedpastor (Apr 2, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Yes....as it still applies.  I believe Jesus was asked a similar question by the Pharisees.  I'd respond the same way.
> 
> Luke 20
> 
> ...



I guess i'm a little slow, please be patient with me. But I need you to help me connect the dots, ok? Jesus is referring to the Roman tax and Jesus simply answered with give what is lawful? Appropriate? Necessary? Required? To bath Caesar and God. Correct? 

I am trying to understand you use of this passage. If you are advocating this as implying tithe then is this one of those negative passages you were referring to earlier? 

Hope I am not confusing or frustrating the topic.


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## vanguard1 (Apr 2, 2009)

i think the goverment should pay for everything.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

reformedpastor said:


> I guess i'm a little slow, please be patient with me. But I need you to help me connect the dots, ok? Jesus is referring to the Roman tax and Jesus simply answered with give what is lawful? Appropriate? Necessary? Required? To bath Caesar and God. Correct?


Yup..I agree.



			
				reformedpastor said:
			
		

> I am trying to understand you use of this passage. If you are advocating this as implying tithe then is this one of those negative passages you were referring to earlier?



I used it based on your question in the post I quoted along with the passage....but I think we agree.

Tithing is an OT concept for paying for the temple, supplying for the poor and paying for the religious holidays/festivals.

Since we don't live in a religous state, the Tithe doesn't really apply to us in current times.  Do we need to give so the Pastor doesn't have to be bi-vocational?  Well, depends.  Look at Paul.  Should he be the example of every pastor?  

We need to give out of our hearts.  We need to give out of sacrifice.  Is that less than 10%?  Is it 10%? Is it more than 10%?  Depends.  No person or circumstance is the same.  If we don't give sacrificially, it isn't enough.


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## Madman (Apr 2, 2009)

> Tithing is an OT concept for paying for the temple,...RJ



The tithe is not to pay for the temple.  The tithe is for the Priests.

 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.
20   And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
21  =COLOR="Red"]And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.[/[/COLOR]
Num. 18:19

Back to Sunday School with you.

If you know the God of the Bible the Word makes more sense.


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## rjcruiser (Apr 2, 2009)

Madman said:


> The tithe is not to pay for the temple.  The tithe is for the Priests.
> 
> All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.
> 20   And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
> ...



You are correct.  I was writing short-hand and just put temple to get my thought across.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

Banjo said:


> MTNWOMAN, MTNWOMAN, MTNWOMAN.....
> (just making sure you see this)
> 
> I just found out what the families on snack duty are preparing for our fellowship meal after Sunday night's worship service.
> ...



Well I'd better copy pigs post about only eating hotdogs at home, and you saying how well he said it and send them a copy,....

Just kidding of course.


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## dawg2 (Apr 2, 2009)

Good Lord!  Talk about a HIJACK


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## earl (Apr 2, 2009)

A tag-a-long question for bi-vocational preachers. Any thoughts on a preacher being paid a percentage of what the church takes in ? I have heard rumors that a high profile mega church does this. Would have been nice for my dad since he had eight mouths to feed at home.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

vanguard1 said:


> i think the goverment should pay for everything.



I agree....
except then we'd be in bondage under their control....not that we already aren't. Look at what they just did with our children's future...they bailed out AIG...a buncha other crooks.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> Good Lord!  Talk about a HIJACK



I think it needed to be hijacked....


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

Didn't Jesus say something about the apostles being provided for? Wouldn't that apply to pastors?

I'm sure there are some folks that misuse church monies, that's on them though. Of course we are suppose to have wisdom on such things, but we all can be fooled. That's between them and God.
I wouldn't go to a church that I didn't trust.


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## pigpen1 (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> Well I'd better copy pigs post about only eating hotdogs at home, and you saying how well he said it and send them a copy,....
> 
> Just kidding of course.




 No, you had better send them my post about what them things are made of .....



  And by the way I sense your Dander has got up today.....


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## mtnwoman (Apr 2, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> No, you had better send them my post about what them things are made of .....*Now that I like...*
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way I sense your Dander has got up today.....


 *Nah, I can be pesky but I don't get my dander up easily.*


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