# what keeps you a believer?



## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2012)

what is that special something that happened between you and god ,that i or any  atheist have never experienced


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## centerpin fan (Aug 17, 2012)

I believe the Gospel is true.  Simple as that.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> I believe the Gospel is true.  Simple as that.



so nothing special happened or anything...just faith in the bible....ok thanks


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## centerpin fan (Aug 17, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> so nothing special happened or anything...



Nope.  No bolt of lightning, no burning bush, and no magic freeway sign:


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## hobbs27 (Aug 17, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> so nothing special happened or anything...just faith in the bible....ok thanks



Not faith in the bible, faith in Christ, and I did have an experience with grace.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 17, 2012)

I catch all the green lights, always have the right change, no seriously, I have pondered how I could even explain it to my children


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 17, 2012)

Faith and answered prayers. If I pray for saftey, I'm always kept safe. I pray for healing of my mind I guess you could say, or comfort, for relief of anxiety, and those prayers are always answered.

No other cause for life.. I see no way for us to appear and planets and everything to appear without there being a cause. Without someone or something doing it, I question things sometimes sure, but I always end up thinking "why is my dog here, those trees that pasture how do you just put something in the ground and it turns into a 50 foot tall tree or green re-growing grass? How would we be able to reproduce if we weren't designed in a PERFECT way to do so.. it isn't just luck, God is real.


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## jmharris23 (Aug 17, 2012)

To combine two answers already given, I have faith in the Christ of the bible. No magic here either.


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## vowell462 (Aug 17, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> I believe the Gospel is true.  Simple as that.



If its that simple please enlighten us. Why do you believe it as truth?


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## hobbs27 (Aug 17, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Not faith in the bible, faith in Christ, and I did have an experience with grace.



I have to clarify this. I do have faith in the bible, but it is the faith in Christ that I recieved his grace.


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## BreamReaper (Aug 17, 2012)

Not a thing in His word has been proven to be false. If youde like an example, umm when I started paying my tithes I began to prosper. I'm a firefighter (not exactly a wealthy profession) with a family of 6, and one income. The more i obey Christ, the easier my life is, the relationship w my wife is, and my children. We have a brand new home, some land, 2 vehicles that are payed for and every bit of it with the earnings of my two hands.

I have 2 twin boys that doctors said we should terminate the pregnancy because they'd never be born alive, and if by some miracle they did live, they'd be vegetables in sorts of words. Science says this type of pregnancy has a survival rate of less than 5%. -This morning they passed their swallow test and drink from a bottle and weigh 8 and 10 lbs-Prayer made this happen. Obedience made this happen.

Check out Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life" book and his bio. I think the man gives back like 90% of his income into ministry and he's a multi millionaire.

I've got an abundance of testimony.


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2012)

I tried to quit, and that made less sense.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 18, 2012)

I think that athiest ponder over if we have had some type of revelation that they were left out from. I think the lack of post and content here will give them answer to this thought. I have already attempted to write a response 2 other times. But after reading my own post, I terminated the post. Everything I can say has been experienced by a non beleiver. I have often pondered how I could explain these experiences with my children. No walking on the water, nobody born blind now seeing, no angels sent to speak to me. None of that stuff. But the sum of thousands of smaller things add up to one of these. It would be like one of these huge piggy banks full of dimes. No one cares much about a dime. And no one would wish to count them. But they add up to a great sum.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 18, 2012)

When I was a child, I was haunted with nightmares. Almost dreaded sleep because I knew that it would be nightmares from beginning to end. Somewhere around the age of 7 or 8, maybe older, before knowing much of anything about God, I prayed ever so earnestly to take those bad dreams away. He did, not another bad dream until I was around 18 years old. I lived everyday aware of this answered prayer. Pondering it at a very young age. It had an affect on me.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 18, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> It would be like one of these huge piggy banks full of dimes. No one cares much about a dime. And no one would wish to count them. But they add up to a great sum.



This reminded me of when I was a boy and watched Dad pick up a penny from the sidewalk. I asked him "why so happy to find a penny?" 
He would say, "Son, if I had enough of them, I would be a millionaire."


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## HoCoLion91 (Aug 18, 2012)

This reminded me of when I was a boy and watched Dad pick up a penny from the sidewalk. I asked him "why so happy to find a penny?" 
He would say, "Son, if I had enough of them, I would be a millionaire."

I love old sayings,  your dad was a wise man.


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## centerpin fan (Aug 18, 2012)

vowell462 said:


> If its that simple please enlighten us.



Enlighten yourself.  We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles (1 Cor 1:23.)


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## vowell462 (Aug 18, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Enlighten yourself.  We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles (1 Cor 1:23.)



Alrighty then.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> what is that special something that happened between you and god?
> 
> That's a question for God.
> 
> ...



the world wrote the bible ,it could be a lie(you believe that)....so nothing happened between you and god personally...mmmkkkay


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## centerpin fan (Aug 18, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> so nothing happened between you and god personally...



No, but I don't take it as a personal slight.  God is very busy.


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## hummerpoo (Aug 18, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> the world wrote the bible ,it could be a lie(you believe that)....so nothing happened between you and god personally...mmmkkkay



Sorry for my lack of clarity.

You didn't ask about the bible and I didn't mention it;
Nor did I say that nothing happened, it did and does.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> No, but I don't take it as a personal slight.  God is very busy.



he is all powerful and all knowing...even able to heal and cure people(lets just go with the one's without dr's,emt's,nurse's,and emergency personnel  help) ...he sure has missed out on a lot and still missing

not natural selection a presume!!!


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## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> what is that special something that happened between you and god ,that i or any  atheist have never experienced



It happens everyday (that special something).


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## jighead1 (Aug 19, 2012)

You need to belive in god, how else can you enjoy all he has giving us, you don't have to try to get every one else to think as you do but how are so many blessed and so many suffer. If not for Gods grace this world would be more - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - than we could handle.All things are possible with prayer, health,is one thing that is more imporant that all else.If not for faith what do we have?


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 19, 2012)

I have pondered over "belief" as not being a rational decission based on a careful observation of the facts, but more as though it were "built in". Strange, I know. But just as I like women, it is "built in". Why do I believe? Especially since no one seems to present any evidence. I don't know? I just do. As if it's "built in". But believing has an effect. It causes you to believe that God watches over you. "carried on eagles wings" is what I often thing of.


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## fish hawk (Aug 19, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> what is that special something that happened between you and god ,that i or any  atheist have never experienced



I'm the believer I am because I serve Jesus Christ!!!


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## StriperAddict (Aug 19, 2012)

No strength of mine (in the flesh), but "kept" by the Power of God


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## hobbs27 (Aug 19, 2012)

hummdaddy said:


> what is that special something that happened between you and god ,that i or any  atheist have never experienced



 I and others will call you out in prayer for an extended time that God may make your heart heavy, and if it is and you realize that He gave his life for you....not all Christianity but for you personally, and you believe and accept him, then you too will know.
 God Bless.


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## formula1 (Aug 20, 2012)

*Re:*

The 'special something' than happened is that I finally saw that I was separated from God because of sin and I could never satisfy Him, but I recognized that He left His throne to pay my sin debt in the form of Jesus Christ. When I recognized the depth of God's Love in that unconditional act, how could I not  turn from my way and live for Him?   It's like driving down a road and coming to the edge of a canyon, seeing the road on the other side as clear as day, but there is no way to get to it.  It is impossible for man to build a bridge across that impass (sin). But God chose to become my bridge.   It's like this, faith is something you find when run into the end of yourself. 

Will a man ever find it if he will not go?


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## ambush80 (Aug 20, 2012)

formula1 said:


> The 'special something' than happened is that I finally saw that I was separated from God because of sin and I could never satisfy Him, but I recognized that He left His throne to pay my sin debt in the form of Jesus Christ. When I recognized the depth of God's Love in that unconditional act, how could I not  turn from my way and live for Him?   It's like driving down a road and coming to the edge of a canyon, seeing the road on the other side as clear as day, but there is no way to get to it.  It is impossible for man to build a bridge across that impass (sin). But God chose to become my bridge.   It's like this, faith is something you find when run into the end of yourself.
> 
> Will a man ever find it if he will not go?



Wow.  You nailed the 'God of the Gaps'.


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## TheBishop (Aug 20, 2012)

If you read both of the "What makes you.." threads there is an obvious distinction.  One is a leap of the heart, the other is a leap of the mind.  Which is the more reliable organ?


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## JB0704 (Aug 20, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> One is a leap of the heart, the other is a leap of the mind.  Which is the more reliable organ?



Both are necessary.


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## TheBishop (Aug 20, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Both are necessary.



Which do you rely on most to make important decisions in your life?


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## ambush80 (Aug 20, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> If you read both of the "What makes you.." threads there is an obvious distinction.  One is a leap of the heart, the other is a leap of the mind.  Which is the more reliable organ?





JB0704 said:


> Both are necessary.





TheBishop said:


> Which do you rely on most to make important decisions in your life?



I'm sure you guys aren't talking about the actual organ called the heart.  What is this other 'heart' thing and where does it reside?


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## TheBishop (Aug 20, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> I'm sure you guys aren't talking about the actual organ called the heart.  What is this other 'heart' thing and where does it reside?



I'm talking about emotion.


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## ambush80 (Aug 20, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> I'm talking about emotion.



...which comes from your mind.  But I get what you're saying.


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 21, 2012)

TheBishop said:


> If you read both of the "What makes you.." threads there is an obvious distinction.  One is a leap of the heart, the other is a leap of the mind.  Which is the more reliable organ?



Does one's heart have Faith in God or does one's soul and mind? If I couldn't think, then how would I believe anything? I kind of see the heart as a symbol of having Christ in us, since the heart is in the middle of our chest, the center of our body..Christ should be our main focus, in the middle of everything that we do


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## Four (Aug 24, 2012)

Hmm i looked into this thread  because i hear so many people on the forums here talk about a personal relationship with god, and that they talk to god etc.

I was expecting more "i've seen / spoken with god" type answers.


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## JB0704 (Aug 24, 2012)

Four said:


> I was expecting more "i've seen / spoken with god" type answers.



Neither apply to me....outside prayer, but God has never "spoken" back.  

It's faith in the things we do see, and an explanation of the universe which makes sense to us.  Like I said initially in this thread, I tried to ditch faith.  A lot of that had to do with how I had been treated by Christians in my life.  In addition to that, the God I was taught was an angry God, and I didn't like him all that much when I was growing up.  But, existence, to me, requires an explanation beyond assigning infinite and creative properties to inanimate matter.

Also, I concluded that I don't want to believe there is no God.  The concept feels very sad to me.  I understand why y'all think the way you do, and I also understand the liberation that one would feel unrestricted by some universal code and a feeling of intellectual integrity one achieves when they feel they have outsmarted the majority of humanity.  

But, when I look at my kids, I don't want to see a random circumstance.  I would much prefer to see a creation.  Call that what you will.


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## ambush80 (Aug 24, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Neither apply to me....outside prayer, but God has never "spoken" back.
> 
> It's faith in the things we do see, and an explanation of the universe which makes sense to us.  Like I said initially in this thread, I tried to ditch faith.  A lot of that had to do with how I had been treated by Christians in my life.  In addition to that, the God I was taught was an angry God, and I didn't like him all that much when I was growing up.  But, existence, to me, requires an explanation beyond assigning infinite and creative properties to inanimate matter.
> 
> Also, I concluded that I don't want to believe there is no God.  The concept feels very sad to me.  I understand why y'all think the way you do, and I also understand the liberation that one would feel unrestricted by some universal code and a feeling of intellectual integrity one achieves when they feel they have outsmarted the majority of humanity.



This would be an ego issue if one were to feel this.



JB0704 said:


> But, when I look at my kids, I don't want to see a random circumstance.  I would much prefer to see a creation.  Call that what you will.



As is this.


All of the atheists here have come to their conclusions because they wanted to live truthfully and I can assure it does feel sad and lonely sometimes but it's worth it.


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## JB0704 (Aug 24, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> This would be an ego issue if one were to feel this.



I agree to some extent....but having an ego is a human condition.  I have the same problem.  When I step outside of traditional christian thinking I tend to be a bit arrogant about my "intellectual integrity."  I try to keep it in check to the extent that I can see it.

In Christian circles, the "contemporary" Christians think they have it all figured out because they realized they don't have to wear a tie to church.  I tend to think I have it all figured out because I am somewhat libertarian and beleive morality is personal, not political.  Traditional churches think they have it figured out because "contemporary" churches are conforming to secularism.  Atheists think they have it figured out because they "discovered" it was all a big joke.



ambush80 said:


> As is this.



Agreed.  But I don't see the harm in this one.


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## JB0704 (Aug 24, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> All of the atheists here have come to their conclusions because they wanted to live truthfully and I can assure it does feel sad and lonely sometimes but it's worth it.



I appreciate your honesty in that statement.


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## ross the deer slayer (Aug 24, 2012)

Its worth it feeling sad and lonely? I don't like those feelings


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## ambush80 (Aug 25, 2012)

ross the deer slayer said:


> Its worth it feeling sad and lonely? I don't like those feelings



You can find ways to deal with it.


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## gtparts (Aug 31, 2012)

While I was raised in a home where Christ was Lord, I think it comes upon every seeker of truth to question the foundational issues of his or her faith. For me, and I believe for everyone, the initial question is "Does God exist?". Long ago, I concluded that all that is or has ever been is the result of a creator. It goes beyond rational thought that the intricacies and interdependence of animate and inanimate matter and energy follow such rigid, systemic rules without someone to implement and control. Order on such a scale must be the result of control instituted and maintained by some power. If there are immutable rules of physics, chemistry, mathematics then some intelligence must be at the very cause of such order. Unbounded, unrestricted energy and mass does not, can not precipitate order, only chaos. If there are rules there is a rule-maker, a rule-sustainer. 

Does God exist? I can't see it any other way.

Science didn't create the rules. It (actually, mankind) has merely identified what already existed and gathered information to describe the static and dynamic components of the physical world. 

The obvious follow-up question is two-fold. 
1) "Why? What purpose does existence serve?" and 

2) "What can we know of this intelligent, creative power?

Science, even all of human intellect, cannot answer these questions. If they are answerable, the answer must originate with the creative power.

I have a problem with all other religions, simply because they are completely unsatisfying when it comes to answering those questions. Most, do not even address them or are so vague as to allow each seeker to find his "own way". 

The Bible, when taken as complete and true, not only addresses those questions, but gives explanation for much of why things are the way they are.

What is the personality, the very nature of this Creator?

Why do bad things happen to "good" people?

Is it possible to know the Creator intimately?

What pleases God? Can He be pleased?

How does He want us to relate to each other?

Does He even care about us beyond the creative process?

If we experience a barrier that separates us from Him, is there anything that can remedy that condition? What is that condition?

Honestly, start with those and let Him know what you found. 

P.S. It helps to have an open mind toward spiritual answers. That is how any Christ-follower came to know God... and the only way.


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## StriperAddict (Aug 31, 2012)

GT, great post.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 3, 2012)

Hmmmm....what keeps me a 'believer'?

although I was 'saved' when I was like 14-15, I don't think my heart could ever hold on to a belief that my mind constantly contradicted.    I'd have to say that science keeps me a 'believer'.    The more I learn about what science has discovered about the cell (e.g.   347 minimum genes for a cell to survive and reproduce) the stronger my faith becomes.  

Like Flew and Ordway, I've got to go where the evidence leads.


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## ross the deer slayer (Sep 3, 2012)

I agree bander


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## ambush80 (Sep 4, 2012)

gtparts said:


> Science, even all of human intellect, cannot answer these questions. If they are answerable, the answer must originate with the creative power.



No.


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## ambush80 (Sep 4, 2012)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> Hmmmm....what keeps me a 'believer'?
> 
> although I was 'saved' when I was like 14-15, I don't think my heart could ever hold on to a belief that my mind constantly contradicted.    I'd have to say that science keeps me a 'believer'.    The more I learn about what science has discovered about the cell (e.g.   347 minimum genes for a cell to survive and reproduce) the stronger my faith becomes.
> 
> Like Flew and Ordway, I've got to go where the evidence leads.



God of the Gaps?


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## BANDERSNATCH (Sep 4, 2012)

lol    More like a 'God of the astronomically improbable canyon'


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## ambush80 (Sep 4, 2012)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> lol    More like a 'God of the astronomically improbable canyon'



The Grand Canyon is just a gap from space.  Good thing a rocket scientist didn't heed the warnings about trying to reach for the Heavens.


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