# St Regis Paper Company, LLC - Beware!!



## DoeMaster

I contacted the Leasing Office at St Regis Paper Company, LLC last Thursday to ask if a tract of land that had been advertised on the Woody's "Lease" thread was still available.  I was informed that is was still available.  I informed the lease agent that I had only seen a map of the property and said that I'd like to see it in-person before agreeing to lease it.  The exact words of the lease agent were "no problem, I'll hold it for you until you contact me".  This conversation occured about noon.  The conversation was very brief.  The leasing agent provided no other details and sounded very nice and sincere.  Afterwards, I immediately took the afternoon off from my work and went to see the property.  It was 100 miles round-trip.  It was after dark when I returned home.  I immediately e-mailed the leasing agent and informed her that I wanted to lease the property.  I also called her cell phone that has a recording of available lease property and ask that you leave a message and someone will eventually return your call.  I left a message saying that I wanted to lease the property and would she please contact me to discuss the lease procedures.  The next morning (Friday) I received an e-mail message from her saying that she had already leased the property to someone else because I didn't get back with her before 6pm on Thursday afternoon.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.  I quickly e-mailed her back and told her that she never informed me that I had a 6pm deadline and asked if she would reconsider.  Her next response said that the deadline was final and that she would not have agreed to hold the property for me without a deposit.  This was a lie.  I sent a complaint about the incident to the St Regis Paper Company, LLC and here is the reply I received:

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Ralph Long <stregispaper@hotmail.com>
To: gatorfan262@yahoo.com; david.jones6@robins.af.mil
Cc: Brenda Thueson <bthueson@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:56:03 PM
Subject: FW: Leasing Office



Mr. Patterson:

I am sorry for your disappointment, but that is a fact of life.  When you asked Ms. Thueson if the tract was available and she replied that it was, you should have tied it up immediately.  I can’t imagine anyone inquiring about a tract for lease without some prior knowledge of that tract; according to your e-mail you asked about this specific tract.  Then instead of immediately leasing it, you take the afternoon off to watch butterflies and smell the flowers; you deserve to lose the tract.

St. Regis Paper Company, LLC has never held any tract for anyone without a deposit, that is company policy, and if she had done anything differently, she would have been in violation of company policy.

As for your attempted character assassination of Ms. Thueson, it didn’t work.  She has an excellent work ethic and is of the highest moral character.  If I were to try to find fault with her, the only criticism I can make is that she puts too much effort in working with hunters.  We have over three hundred hunters on our list looking for land to lease; she did the right thing leasing the tract.

Ralph Long


Is it just me........or is this response pretty immature and childish?  I assume that Mr Long is the leasing agent's boss/supervisor.  I find it hard to believe that a successful company like St Regis Paper, LLC would condone such an unprofessional response to a customer complaint.  If so, I guess the leasing agent did me a favor....LoL.

How about Mr Long's comment that his leasing agent's only fault is that she puts too much effort into working with hunters.  I would think that hunters are the primary people who lease timber land.......who else would she work with??


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## Sharpshooter

I would contact somebody above this buffoon. His comments in his response are way out of line. I would do this as soon as possible. He sounds like he could be an anti-hunter with the comment about  she puts to much effort working with hunters. Sounds to me that this is her job.


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## matthewsman

*A Floridian friend*

A floridian friend,turned me on to them,he has had good luck with them,and her as an agent in the past.I inquired about a tract that was locked that I wanted to see,and lease.I was assured it was available,but the earliest a forrester could open it for me was the next week.I called him back as planned and he told me it would be the next week before he was in the area...I called him the next week and he said it wasn't available.Sure enough,it had been leased sight unseen.....I did lease elsewhere...sort of left a bad taste in my mouth for them..I had the money,good to go,but.............I couldn't see it first?Oh well...

Good luck to you finding land in the future...St Regis is reasonably priced,but if you can't get it?...BTW I left my info with her and she promised she would notify me as other properties became available...Nothing yet


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## matthewsman

*Oh yeah*

About his comments,Mr Long...sounds like a jerk....


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## whitworth

*Must be*

a seller's market.  Someone puts the money on the table first, and the property is gone.


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## DLS

To bad about not getting the lease. I lost one from a private owner one time, same kind of story  . he said on the phone to me
               "You Snooze You Loose"


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## Tombuster

sounds to me like mr. Long needs to take a trip behind the woodshed.......


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## gordylew

A few weeks ago I had posted about a corporation called the Holland M ware Charitable foundation.  This Corporation is an animal rights group owned by Holland M Ware.  this individual is buying up forest property  and placing it in a trust that is tax exempt because its a charitable Organization.
  the kicker    St Regis manages his property for timber production and also leases it to "hunters".   So your money paying for leases through St Regis is helping an Animal rights group.  Since they don,t pay taxes on the property where do you think the money is going?

Now I could be wrong on some of the facts but research it yourselves and let me know your conclusion.


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## Gobblergetter

we had a timber cruiser from that company come to our school and talk about what he does..........he said hunters are the lowest people on their list,they  don't make enough money off of us I guess


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## CAL

Take your email responses and move on up the ladder.I think there are people in higher positions that would like to read them.Besides,when you buy a coke you don't start drinking it at the bottom!Send it all to the president of St.Regis.


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## sweatequity

*supply  and demand*

I have had several tracts leased before I could even look at it. A lot of hunters lease sight unseen.  Worse case scenario you give it up next year.

The guy sounds like a jerk but I am sure 300 were waiting in the wings.
Sorry about your luck!


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## Bruz

Well I was about to sign a check for a piece of property in Crawford County owned by St. Regis but this gentleman's litlle quip about "smelling the flowers" has made me have second thoughts.

That comment displays the leasing agents true character...or lack thereof....Think I will look elsewhere.


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## Just 1 More

> As for your attempted character assassination of Ms. Thueson, it didn’t work. She has an excellent work ethic and is of the highest moral character. If I were to try to find fault with her, the only criticism I can make is that she puts too much effort in working with hunters. We have over three hundred hunters on our list looking for land to lease; she did the right thing leasing the tract.


Brenda is a good friend of mine and a very, Very good person. I'm sorry things turned out the way they did but for you to come one here and attack her this way.. is wrong. 
She held that property for you at my request, thats why no deposit was asked for, or required, of you. 
I don't know the full story but I do know that Brenda has bosses and has to abide by their decisions.. 
Ralphs resonse to your attempted character assassination  is dead on.. 
I'm not going to get in an argument or discussion on this any further, honestly, because I don't have bot sides of the story and don't want to. I lease 3 tracts from her right now and will continue to lease from her any chance I get. And if the rest of you don't want to deal with St Regis because of this, you arn't going to hurt anyone but yourself.
Pat, Good luck in the future, I hope you find what you're looking for and wish you the most success in your hunting ventures.


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## General Lee

I know for a fact that they will hold the land for you. I currently have the maps for 6 of their tracts that are available for lease right now.And these are some awesome tracts...........


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## Bruz

Just 1 More said:


> Brenda is a good friend of mine and a very, Very good person. I'm sorry things turned out the way they did but for you to come one here and attack her this way.. is wrong.
> She held that property for you at my request, thats why no deposit was asked for, or required, of you.
> I don't know the full story but I do know that Brenda has bosses and has to abide by their decisions..
> Ralphs resonse to your attempted character assassination  is dead on..
> I'm not going to get in an argument or discussion on this any further, honestly, because I don't have bot sides of the story and don't want to. I lease 3 tracts from her right now and will continue to lease from her any chance I get. And if the rest of you don't want to deal with St Regis because of this, you arn't going to hurt anyone but yourself.
> Pat, Good luck in the future, I hope you find what you're looking for and wish you the most success in your hunting ventures.



Just 1 More,

You turned me onto these folks and I understand you have a good relationship with them but you have to admit that there was no call for this comment in a business Email....

"Then instead of immediately leasing it, you take the afternoon off to watch butterflies and smell the flowers; you deserve to lose the tract."

I spoke to Brenda and she seemed like a good person to deal with but if this man is her superior then that could be a problem.


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## Just 1 More

Bruz said:


> Just 1 More,
> 
> You turned me onto these folks and I understand you have a good relationship with them but you have to admit that there was no call for this comment in a business Email....
> 
> "Then instead of immediately leasing it, you take the afternoon off to watch butterflies and smell the flowers; you deserve to lose the tract."
> 
> I spoke to Brenda and she seemed like a good person to deal with but if this man is her superior then that could be a problem.



Ralph is not her superior.. he is the companies forester for that area... And he is a good man


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company, LLC - Mr Long*

I've already sent St Regis Paper Company, LLC another follow-up message concerning Mr Long's response.  I haven't heard back from anyone yet.  Leasing the land isn't really an issue anymore.  I just think people like Mr Long, who obviously believes he is some person of extreme importance and is on a real power trip, shouldn't be disrespectful to his customers.  Anyone with any business sense would have tactfully responded back to me with a short apology for any miscommunication that occured and would have smoothed things out with an offer to assist me personnally if another tract of land became available in the future that  I was interested in leasing.  Obviously, he has no business sense.  I just want his superiors at St Regis Paper Company to know how he treats people and to see how he feels about the hunters who they've given him the responsibilty to work property leases with.


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## General Lee

While I can't speak for Mr Long,I have dealt with Brenda and found her to be a very nice and professional lady.I just know that if I were in Mr Long's position,sitting in an office in Idaho, and my company had millions of dollars worth of timber in rural Ga ,the last thing I would be doing is making folks angry with snide remarks for fear that they may "accidentally" ride by one of my properties and flip a lit cigarette out the window..........


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## Just 1 More

DoeMaster said:


> I've already sent St Regis Paper Company, LLC another follow-up message concerning Mr Long's response. I haven't heard back from anyone yet. Leasing the land isn't really an issue anymore. I just think people like Mr Long, who obviously believes he is some person of extreme importance and is on a real power trip, shouldn't be disrespectful to his customers. Anyone with any business sense would have tactfully responded back to me with a short apology for any miscommunication that occured and would have smoothed things out with an offer to assist me personnally if another tract of land became available in the future that I was interested in leasing. Obviously, he has no business sense. I just want his superiors at St Regis Paper Company to know how he treats people and to see how he feels about the hunters who they've given him the responsibilty to work property leases with.



You couldn't be more wrong about Ralph or Brenda. And if you think you are a customer.. You're really not. There is a list of over 300 people standing in line to lease property,, SIGHT UN SEEN. She gave you the courtosy of time to go look at the property. 
Was there a problem with communication?? Maybe.. possibly.. I don't know.. 
Could it have anything to do with you wanting to try to knock $2.00 per acre off the asking price?? again, I don't know.. possibly.. 
I hope your crusade fulfills your needs,, but it will fall on deaf ears anywhere but here.


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## Bowhunter24

Well truth be known and its not all out in the open, her leaseing it out to another person in line probably had nothing to do with him trying to jew her down $2.00 and acre off the price, when that didnt happen he got mad and went on a pitty party because he didnt get the lease. Maybe someone should have took the lease when they had the chance espeically when u have a list of 300 people waiting in line to lease the property sight unseen.


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company, LLC - Beware*

Frank,

I have no problem with you.  I know you have a good relationship with these people.  That's fine.  Yes, I was a customer.  I became a customer once the St Regis Paper Company leasing office called me.  You are probably right, Brenda told me that she would hold the property until I contacted her as a favor to you because you refered me to her.  That doesn't change the fact that she lied.  She didn't wait.  I don't know anything about Mr Long, except that he sent me a degrading reply to my complaint.  I never mentioned you during this entire process.  I intentionally didn't mention you because I knew you have a good relationship with these people and I didn't want to do anything that would harm that relationship.  You really bring nothing to the table concerning this incident.  You weren't involved.  You don't know what was said.  I'm a little confused as to why you feel the need to chime in and defend these people.


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company - Beware*

Oh yea........what's wrong with asking if the price on a freshly clearcut tract of land could be reduced from $9.50 per acre to $7.50 for the first year and $8.50 for the second year and $9.50 after that.  You didn't think it was unreasonable when I asked you if they might consider it.  If you remember correctly......you asked the question for me!!


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## Ta-ton-ka chips

Just 1 More said:


> Could it have anything to do with you wanting to try to knock $2.00 per acre off the asking price?? again, I don't know.. possibly..
> .



Why the need for two threads to bash this company?

How about telling the whole story?

Maybe you should hire an attorney and sue them for $50 million


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company, LLC - Beware*

The property had just been clearcut.  They were asking $9.50 per acre.  I asked (actually Just 1 More asked for me) if they would consider $7.50 for the first year and $8.50 for the second year, and $9.50 after that.  I didn't think that was unreasonable.  They said no that the price was not negotiable.  I agreed and went on from there.  It wasn't an issue!


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company,LLC - Beware*

Actually it's three threads.  I wanted to warn as many people as possible.  As for trying to negotiate the lease price........it was discussed initially, they said it wasn't negotiable and we moved on.


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## westcobbdog

Mr Long w/ St Regis is not real sharp on his customer service skills...gave my buddy the run around on an important issue...did not seem to be concerned or helpful despite repeated phone calls


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## Confederate_Jay

Pat, the other thing that doesn't make sense is that if they close at 6:00 and that was "the deadline" for contacting her, how did she manage to lease it after hours before the open of business the next day? Either she didn't wait like she said would or she does business after hours and collected the deposit then (yeah right), becasue as Mr Long said, "St Regis doesn't hold property without a deposit for anyone"..... Sounds to me like maybe Mr Long had the  property earmarked for someone else and maybe that's why it wasn't listed to begin with.


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## Confederate_Jay

Bowhunter24 said:


> Well truth be known and its not all out in the open, her leaseing it out to another person in line probably had nothing to do with him trying to jew her down $2.00 and acre off the price, when that didnt happen he got mad and went on a pitty party because he didnt get the lease. Maybe someone should have took the lease when they had the chance espeically when u have a list of 300 people waiting in line to lease the property sight unseen.





Maybe you make it a habit of buying stuff sight unseen but I don't. Would you buy a house without walking through it or a truck without driving it? Why would you lease an unfamiliar  piece of land without looking at it?  
What difference does it make if he tried to negotiate? That's the smart thing to do especially since the land has been cut. Worst they can do is say no and sometimes they  will say yes. Oh yeah, or lease it to someone else while they are "waiting to hear back from you"

 Here is what I'm a little fuzzy on... She said she'd wait to hear back from him and that the property wasn't  even listed yet- He goes to check out the property that afternoon but doesn't make it back before the close of business. Even  though she expressed no sense of urgency, He emails her that evening and calls her office ( her Cell phone gives a recording) first thing the next morning. From they time he talked to her originally, 24 hours had not even passed. How did it get leased during that stretch of time (after the close of business)?  Seems to me she'd have to be working after hours.  How did she collect the deposit. Even thought she didn't give DoeMaster the deposit option to hold the property, her boss Mr Long states that they hold no property w/o money down. 

This lady might be a great person and good to work with  and it sounds like she was trying to work with DM. But for some reason she  went against what they talked about. furthermore she didn't originally give him the option to put a deposit on the property to hold it. So either she just blew him off thinking he wasn't really serious since he tried to negotiate, or other factors ( her boss?) became involved forcing her to do something else.  

At any rate this is typical of how these companies treat hunters. There is no excuse for Long's  smart response but his atttitude about us a hunters is obvious... " we have a waiting list of 300"-  translation we can treat you any way we want because we have an endless supply. He is pretty brave behind a computer screen to tell someone what "they deserve".


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## matthewsman

*Are you Mr.Long*



Bowhunter24 said:


> Well truth be known and its not all out in the open, her leaseing it out to another person in line probably had nothing to do with him trying to jew her down $2.00 and acre off the price, when that didnt happen he got mad and went on a pitty party because he didnt get the lease. Maybe someone should have took the lease when they had the chance espeically when u have a list of 300 people waiting in line to lease the property sight unseen.



Are you Mr Long or did you just graduate from the same school of etiquette?


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## westcobbdog

Doe, we tried to get Mr Long to talk to us about an access easement in writing for a established rd in place and used 25-30 yrs...repeated phone calls went unanswered..finally after 3-4 weeks he had an employee call my buddy back. We knew more than the employee, who was very nice. Most of Holland Ware's land(over 100k acres) is in a charitable trust. Mr Ware is the owner of St Regis. Probably won't matter much now but you could contact him .


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## 7Mag Hunter

When we questioned the increase of our lease cost every
year with Plum Creek, they said "Thats OK, if you don't 
want to release, as we have a list of folks who will lease
it SIGHT UNSEEN !!!!!

Sign of the times !!!!


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## Arrow3

I too have spoke to Ms. Thueson about some land...She was nothing but helpful and nice to me...Thanks to the help that Just 1 More and Ms. Thuseon gave me....On the other side of the plate the comment the gentleman made to you in your email was uncalled for....If she told you she was gonna hold it, then thats what they should have done..I understand she has a boss but people need to stick by their word...To many people don't these days...Like others have said though, we are only getting one side of the story here on the GON board....Id love to hear their side..


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## Handgunner

I merged both threads.

Hate that someone got screwed over, but it happens.  With today's lease holders and agreements, you are almost forced to buy unseen if you want it.

The waiting list is long, and there is always someone in line waiting to take your place.

Sad but true.

Y'all try to keep the personal insults out and just discuss the topic at hand.

Better luck on the next tract you persue.


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## outdoordon

*I think everyone is missing the point.*

I have been married for 20 years and have ran a factory for 23 years. "Remeber women should only get paid 3 weeks out of the month, The other week they are from venus and men are from mars.
Timber Corp. are hard to deal with unless you are in the loop.


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## LanceAH22

She may be a great person. blah , blah, blah. That doesn't matter. That's not the issue. That is no way to treat a customer. The forester or her boss or whoever it is has horrible customer service skills.  That's not judging him as a person but as a business person. Terrible....


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## Perry Hayes

I lease land from them and have not any problems with them at all.


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## Bowhunter24

Well mathewsman, i have had to learn the hard way from the good ol boy system thats in place up there, I got hosed on a tract last yr, but i didnt get on here crying the blues and bashing the company like a child. I took off and drove 7 hours last yr to look at a tract, and i had until 12 pm the next day to give them an answer. SO i drive up look at the property then actually drive to the leaseing ofice in person to write them a check at 10:30 am, and when i walked in the door, they told me they just leased it an hour ago to, after i was told it would be held for me till 12 that day. I was irate but what can u do, just live and learn. I would hate to see everyone on here complain when ever a company has done them wrong u would need a whole different forum. Doemaster i do not believe u were a customer yet as u had not purcahsed or leased any property at the time. When ur dealing with a paper company that has a list of people wainting in line do u actually really think that u can jew them down when they have the next person in line waiting to pay the full price, i know alot of u guys dont wanna relize that but unfortunatly thats the way things are now the days of hunting for free and for $2.00 an acre are pretty much gone on private land.  
Its real easy for everyone to start in on how bad that company is especially hearing the 1 side of the story, i personally know quite a few people that lease from them and have had never had any problems with them the rates were not jacked up each yr and were not charged for an arm and leg for camping, so before everyone passes judgement why not wait and here both sides


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## Jranger

*Don't waste your time trying to get anywhere with St. Regis...*

I also spoke with them regarding land leases and inquiring about the company. According to Ms. Thueson, this is a family owned company out of Iowa if I remember correctly. Ms. Thueson painted a picture of a very small close knit family business that was beginning to increase their land holdings in the Southeast. I am sure that all of your correspondence will be falling on deaf ears, especially after seeing the response you received.

I also know a few people people who have had the misfortune of leasing with St. Regis. From what I was told the entire process was nothing more less than having your teeth removed without anesthesia. They are focused on profit alone , and they are fully aware of the lack of land for lease lately in Georgia. Good luck with your struggles, I have been there.


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## matthewsman

Bowhunter24 said:


> Well mathewsman, i have had to learn the hard way from the good ol boy system thats in place up there, I got hosed on a tract last yr, but i didnt get on here crying the blues and bashing the company like a child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeap,same school of etiquette.........
> 
> Say what you want,but if you are desperate enough to lease from them after they promised you they would wait and let you drive all that distance with money in your hand,then more power to you...
> 
> I don't give my money to folks that act that way....
> 
> Franks a good guy and gave me the # last year for them...I apreciated it.I'm sure they mean well.I did ask them if they required a deposit,she said no,they were particular as to who they leased to,and that she had good luck with Frank and the folks he sent to her and that the land wouldn't be leased before I looked at it....
> 
> Notice..I said nothing about it to anyone publicly until it came up again.Looks as if some others have had similar experiences....Just buyer beware.
> 
> The "Long"character was out of hand in his answer...If you think that's an acceptable way to respond to folks also,it doesn't speak well for you either
Click to expand...


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## short stop

I read this whole thread --I lease land in various states including  Ga my Home state . This all could have been avoided  --by simply  giving a deposit of say $100  on the lease . If your set on looking  and obtaing land  I would never  drive that far  without   doing this first .  I've lost leases  before  like you did  but if you have a deposit on it ---theres no chance of the rug  getting pulled out from under you . Many people who  have  been on the land  ---aka  former club members or guests will just  hand over a credit card #  and leave a deposit  sight unseen   and  its gone . They dont need to look   at it   so it goes sight unseen . 
 Call it ------- good , bad or ugly thats  how todays  paper company's  leasing market works .  Its all about the $  and its first one with $ on the table  that  hunts the ground . 

 Worst case senerio :  You didnt like  the land and they would  give your deposit back or you  flip it on another tract .


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## one_shot

sounds like plum creek ,I imagine one of your forum buddies leased the tract!


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## Confederate_Jay

Bowhunter24 said:


> Well mathewsman, i have had to learn the hard way from the good ol boy system thats in place up there, I got hosed on a tract last yr, but i didnt get on here crying the blues and bashing the company like a child. I took off and drove 7 hours last yr to look at a tract, and i had until 12 pm the next day to give them an answer. SO i drive up look at the property then actually drive to the leaseing ofice in person to write them a check at 10:30 am, and when i walked in the door, they told me they just leased it an hour ago to, after i was told it would be held for me till 12 that day. I was irate but what can u do, just live and learn. I would hate to see everyone on here complain when ever a company has done them wrong u would need a whole different forum. Doemaster i do not believe u were a customer yet as u had not purcahsed or leased any property at the time. When ur dealing with a paper company that has a list of people wainting in line do u actually really think that u can jew them down when they have the next person in line waiting to pay the full price, i know alot of u guys dont wanna relize that but unfortunatly thats the way things are now the days of hunting for free and for $2.00 an acre are pretty much gone on private land.
> Its real easy for everyone to start in on how bad that company is especially hearing the 1 side of the story, i personally know quite a few people that lease from them and have had never had any problems with them the rates were not jacked up each yr and were not charged for an arm and leg for camping, so before everyone passes judgement why not wait and here both sides





I read the email from Mr. Long and it pretty much states what "their side" of the story is. Doesn't get much plainer. Only thing not explained is why the lady said one thing and did another. Sugar coat how you like but that's what happened. Given the option to give a deposit I'm sure he would have- remember this was all transacted by phone so even then he probably would have had to mail it in and they would have still been working based on a verbal agreement until the deposit arrived and she sent papers back to him to sign. So whats the difference? Customer or not,  300  person waiting list or not, big Corporation or not, He should have been treated with more respect. She should have done what she said she was going to do.  Their timeline of events doesn't add up If she gave him until the close of business how did it get leased overnite and how was that deposit ( required of ALL prospective  lease customers according to Ralph Long) transacted prior to start of business the next day?  Obviously  it wasn't, either she leased /promised it to another party earlier that same afternoon or she just arbitrarily decided to give to another party in spite of what she told DM. 

I haven't heard anyone crying on this thread except those that are already chummy with St. Regis an running to defend them. DM did everyone who reads this thread a service by relaying his experience and how they treated him. I don't see his actions as company bashing or character assination.  He acted in good faith and they did not - when he called them on it he was further abused and told he "deserved" his outcome of having the lease handed off to someone else. You are awful quick to come to their defense and be critical of DM for speaking out. You have made several posts in this vein, alluding to "the other side of the story"  etc etc.What's your connection? Do you work for them or maybe you're a stockholder. Maybe you got the lease he was looking at or are you just trying to gain favor with them.

 You and a couple other "insiders"  keep bringing up the fact that he tried to negotiate a better price since the land was a fresh cutover as a factor in his not getting the property. Again, if this is such a greivous offense in the eyes of this company then DM has done anyone that reads this forum  a great service if they decide to do business with St Regis. and maybe they won't make the same "mistake".  

Believe me, nobody knows better than a native Georgian that the days of $2.00 an acre leases are gone. Florida hunters, in part, have seen to that. By the way where'd you say your are from? I'm not sayin everyone from Fla is bad.... I have hunted with some great guys from across the state line,  but I've also seen several cases where a long time Georgia  lease holder who let Fla hunters in the club had to fend off a coup attempt from these same folks who went behind his back and tried to offer more money to the property owner/Timber Co. to take control of the lease. You actually further my position on that subject with your opinion that in order to aquire property to hunt, someone should lease property sight unseen, at any price asked, regardless of condition.  With folks like that running around, hunters have very little bargaining power and the cost to hunt will continue to skyrocket. Case in point -there are now leases in this months GON "hunting land issue" being offered for $20 an acre. 

Just for the record, while DM and I have been hunting buds for many years,  I had absolutely no interest in this particular piece of dirt. I didn't know anything about it until he related his "adventure" to me over the phone. He couldn't believe it and  neither could I until I saw the emails sent by the St Regis folks.
DM will  get by just fine without that 180 acres but it's the principal of the thing. That's why he posted his experience in the first place, to help others on these pages avoid the same pitfall with this group of people. I applaud him for standing up for himself and the rest of us as hunters who spend our money to trying to have a place to participate in this great sport.  St. Regis might be deaf and dumb but I bet the majority of the folks on this forum aren't.


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## Bruz

The thing that is truly confusing here is that ........

*THE PROPERTY IS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!*

It just so happens that this piece of property is the same one I'm looking at and the forrester left me a VM today that it's still available.

He offered to go take a look at it so I wouldn't have to drive down and he couldn't remember what the CT102 designation meant on the plat.......I am going to talk to him on Monday and will post the results of the conversation.


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## elfiii

St. Regis Paper Co. is owned by Holland Ware who lives in Hogansville GA. The two leases next to my property are both owned by St. Regis. Neither club has had too much difficulty dealing with them. Its' not all bad.


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## General Lee

Bruz said:


> The thing that is truly confusing here is that ........
> 
> *THE PROPERTY IS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!*
> 
> It just so happens that this piece of property is the same one I'm looking at and the forrester left me a VM today that it's still available.
> 
> He offered to go take a look at it so I wouldn't have to drive down and he couldn't remember what the CT102 designation meant on the plat.......I am going to talk to him on Monday and will post the results of the conversation.


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## Confederate_Jay

Bruz said:


> The thing that is truly confusing here is that ........
> 
> *THE PROPERTY IS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!*
> 
> It just so happens that this piece of property is the same one I'm looking at and the forrester left me a VM today that it's still available.
> 
> He offered to go take a look at it so I wouldn't have to drive down and he couldn't remember what the CT102 designation meant on the plat.......I am going to talk to him on Monday and will post the results of the conversation.



PM Doemaster, He spent half a day out there and can give a detailed report. Seriously , I'm sure he will tell you anything you might need to know if you are interested in leasing it.  He certainly doesn't want it anymore.
Good luck


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## LanceAH22

Confederate Jay couldn't have put it better!! No way to treat a customer. YES he is a customer. Doesn't matter if he's put money down or not! Do you think people that walk into Bass Pro aren't customers even if they don't buy anything. They treated him terrible. No way to treat a CUSTOMER!!!


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## Toby

SOMEBODY GOT SOME EXPLAINING TO DO!!!


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## Bruz

Confederate_Jay said:


> PM Doemaster, He spent half a day out there and can give a detailed report. Seriously , I'm sure he will tell you anything you might need to know if you are interested in leasing it.  He certainly doesn't want it anymore.
> Good luck



CJ,

I've already communicated with DM and that's how we figured out that it was the same piece of property. After this thread was started I even asked the lady if this piece was still available and she and the forrester confirmed that it was.

I am no longer interested (for obvious reasons) but want to see what they have to say on Monday.

Thanks,


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## Confederate_Jay

Bruz said:


> CJ,
> 
> I've already communicated with DM and that's how we figured out that it was the same piece of property. After this thread was started I even asked the lady if this piece was still available and she and the forrester confirmed that it was.
> 
> I am no longer interested (for obvious reasons) but want to see what they have to say on Monday.
> 
> Thanks,



Well,where ya at now, Bowhunter 24??


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## Bruz

FWIW....I made first contact on Thursday and didn't ask for a reduced rate......So I may have inadvertantly played a part in DM receiving the response he got....I never said that I would take it but they may have figured that since someone else was interested that they could disregard DM's offer.


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## Bowhunter24

Mathewsman, actually i had no clue they were gonna lease that out behind my back, and now i didnt lease from them,  I was actually going up for a friend of mine, heck i plenty of my own lease i have 3 in ga and 1 in ks.

confederate_jay  I am from fla and proud of it, and believe it or not its not us fla hunters driving up the prices, becuase i have been in the same situation as u my friend, have a great lease and a group from ga come and double to price and cost me the land, so open ur eyes its going on with everyone not just a single group of people. Im not saying all are bad becuase i hunt and share some fun time with some ga people where i hunt now, but on the same token there are also plenty of ga boys that do the same with the leaseing as the fla boys. I dont know why yall keep crying the blues that the fla hunters are taking all ur land, when there are plenty of chances for the land to be leased by ga boys.

Short stop, u had the best solution off all, i completly agree, if u wanna go look put ur money up instead of wasting these peoples time, a $100 is more than fair especially if there are people waiting in line


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## matthewsman

*It's funny now*



General Lee said:


>



It's funny now ,but wait 'til you find that the land you have first right of refusal on is leased out from under you while you're showing it to prospective members...


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## Confederate_Jay

Aha, the truth is slowly coming to the surface. This must be the "other side" of the story BH24 keeps talking about.

A Woodys member is helping fill their leases and it probably works out as a good arrangement for him. Maybe he gets a commission or a discount or maybe he just gets first shot at land coming available as an insider. I got no problem with that , sounds like a sweet deal. As long as it is done right. 

Handled correctly, it has the potential to be a great benfit for  for Woodys folks too.... but it didn't turn out that way this time. Looks to me  like the lease lady did just what DM said- she totally disregarded what she originally said,  and did not wait to hear back from him.   Sounds like the Woodys insider influenced her to bypass DM when another forum member contacted him about the  same property he had listed on the lease thread. Now we hear from the second guy that the property still has not had a deposit placed on it, and is basically being held for him till Monday which completely goes against what Ralph Long told DM in his letter. C'mon folks  this is sloppy work.  Then, to jump on DM for calling it like it it was, just adds insult to injury.

Regardless of who is helping who or doing the backscratching, there needs to be a little better communication and a lot more consistency. Maybe it bringing out in the open will  improve that.


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## lakelbr

My experience with St. Regis was much the same as DM.  I had leased a tract from International Paper for the last two years.  St. Regis bought it last Nov.  Apparently St. Regis was unaware the tract was leased and offered it out.  Ms. Thuesen told me she had committed to lease it out and I was out of luck, but she would give me first dibs if it came back up.  (I have a farm that wedges into this particular property).  Saw the lease up again here on Woody's, well after I had lost interest, and without ever hearing a word from Ms. Thuesen.


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## Confederate_Jay

lakelbr said:


> My experience with St. Regis was much the same as DM.  I had leased a tract from International Paper for the last two years.  St. Regis bought it last Nov.  Apparently St. Regis was unaware the tract was leased and offered it out.  Ms. Thuesen told me she had committed to lease it out and I was out of luck, but she would give me first dibs if it came back up.  (I have a farm that wedges into this particular property).  Saw the lease up again here on Woody's, well after I had lost interest, and without ever hearing a word from Ms. Thuesen.



Ahhh, another satisfied St. Regis  "pseudo- customer".


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## DYI hunting

Is this where deer hunting is going?  Arguments, deceit, bashing....


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## Just 1 More

Confederate_Jay said:


> Aha, the truth is slowly coming to the surface. This must be the "other side" of the story BH24 keeps talking about.
> 
> A Woodys member is helping fill their leases and it probably works out as a good arrangement for him. Maybe he gets a commission or a discount or maybe he just gets first shot at land coming available as an insider. I got no problem with that , sounds like a sweet deal. As long as it is done right.
> 
> Handled correctly, it has the potential to be a great benfit for  for Woodys folks too.... but it didn't turn out that way this time. Looks to me  like the lease lady did just what DM said- she totally disregarded what she originally said,  and did not wait to hear back from him.   Sounds like the Woodys insider influenced her to bypass DM when another forum member contacted him about the  same property he had listed on the lease thread. Now we hear from the second guy that the property still has not had a deposit placed on it, and is basically being held for him till Monday which completely goes against what Ralph Long told DM in his letter. C'mon folks  this is sloppy work.  Then, to jump on DM for calling it like it it was, just adds insult to injury.
> 
> Regardless of who is helping who or doing the backscratching, there needs to be a little better communication and a lot more consistency. Maybe it bringing out in the open will  improve that.



I'm glad you got it all figured out.. Because I still don't.. Thats what I have said from the beginning of all this.. I DON'T KNOW BOTH SIDES.. And I still do not know what happened.. I hate that Pat got shafted like he did.. I honestly do. I do not know why things happened the way thye did. I have my thoughts and opinions but i'm not going to air them here. 

And as far as bypassing another member.. NO WAY.. all maps and information was given to whoever asked for it when they asked.. AND THEN THE CONTACT INFO WAS GIVEN .. no one was given prefernce over anyone else.. 

And LETS GET ONE THING VERY CLEAR.. as far as kickbacks or commisions.. I GET NONE!!!!! ZERO!!!!!!!! 
Yes, I do get first shot at some of the better properties when they come available.. Other than that .. I GET NOTHING!!!!
When it comes down to leasing ,, you deal directly with the leasing agent for St Regis.


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## rex upshaw

Just 1 More said:


> She gave you the courtosy of time to go look at the property.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> isn't that her job?


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## bestbucks

DYI hunting says it right with the arguing,bashing, and deceit. I've read all the threads from this discussion and the plain truth about all of this, we already know. Companies are out to make money and go the path of least resistance. Conveniences and revenue are the name of the game. I'm opening doctor bills and hospital bills as we speak and no one has written me sympathy cards as to the outrageous charges they've tacked on. What I'm trying to say with all due respect to everyone who has comments on this, is let it go. Your intelligent individuals and you know why companies do what they do.


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## Bruz

This is my last post on this subject and everyone can take from this what they will......This is the series of events which I personally experienced.

1) I saw Just1More's post about the property and spoke to him. He gave me St. Regis' number as he was simply trying to help these folks lease some of their land. 

2) I made contact on Thursday about the property and was told it was still available. They then sent me a map of the property. 

3) I contacted the forrester and he said he knew little about the property but was going to go down on Saturday and said that he would just look it over for me and call me concerning the CT102 code on the Cruise Map. He left a VM for me on Saturday.

4) I returned his call this morning and he told me "several people are interested and it's probably going to lease in the next day or so so you better hurry" and "see what happened here is that the man that was leasing it is late on his dues and you DON'T want him to come up with his money before you"

Now...I'm sure the forrester was just trying to help me out so I could lease the property if I was really interested but what about the man who had been leasing the property?

If you add that last statement to DM's account of what happened as well as his Email response then you probably have a purty good idea of how this company operates. 

As several have said already....It's probably time to just move on.


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## Taylor Co.

Just 1 More said:


> Ralph is not her superior.. he is the companies forester for that area... And he is a good man



I agree, I know Ralph very well and when I was in the land business, did many deals w/them.


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## DoeMaster

*Re: St Regis Paper Company, LLC - Beware*

I appreciate everyone's interest and replies on this matter.  It's still very confusing to me.  I truely hope that these properties are being leased in a honest up-front manner to us hunters.   However, the evidence sort of points to something else.  Let's just say that "hypothetically" an insider at St Regis was jacking-up the lease price one or two dollars per acre for personal gain.  St Regis must own and lease hundreds of thousands of acres (maybe more).  One or two bucks per acre in someone's pocket is a pretty substantial amount of money.  Now remember, that would be earned annually....wow!!  I'm not saying that is what's happening here, but if it is......I bet the owner of St Regis Paper Company, LLC might be interested in hearing about it.  I've actually contacted them and suggested that an audit of their leasing office's books might be appropriate.  Oh yea, if this has been occuring (and I'm not saying that it is) I bet the state and federal income tax folks might be interested too.  Like I said, it's all very confusing and something just doesn't sound right.  That's all I'm going to say on this........it's time for this old illiterate Georgia redneck to get back out in the woods to watch some more butterfies and smell some more flowers....LoL


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## NGaHunter

What evidence?  Man are we grasping at staws now or what....Whay can't you just let it go?


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## Vernon Holt

I spent the best part of my life working for one of those dastardly paper companies.  Thirty seven years with the same employee, Union Camp Corporation out of Savannah.

I can tell you that a constant concern of my company as well as the entire industry (including St. Regis) was with our public personna.  We had an active Public Relations effort ongoing with every employee on board, even involving secretaries in field offices.

Union Camp Corp. owned a million and one quarter acres of timberland.  Rural settlements abounded throughout this land ownership.  Woods arson was a constant threat.  It is not difficult to understand that it was imperative that any industrial landowner get along favorably with his neighbors.

This was done by contributing to local fund drives, donating building sites for rural churches, giving cypress fence posts away to neighbors, plowing fire breaks and helping them burn their land, sending fire crews to assist in local fire suppression, sponsoring local hunts on our choice hunting lands, lease grazing land at 10 cents per acre, lease hunting rights for 25 cents per acre with emphasis on offering leases to our local people as opposed to advertising the land for lease to the highest bidder.

The 1980's began to bring about change in the industry.

By then virtually all of the lands had been leased to hunting clubs.  Public access to the lands was restricted by hunting club gates.  The number of wildfires declined drastically because of this restriction in access.

Companies became so at ease with the decline in woods arson that they no longer felt the need to keep the emphasis on public relations.

The rest of the story is well known.  Increase in demand for hunting leases awakened landowners to the potential for additional revenue from this source.  Hunters with their anxiety proved to all that they would pay whatever it takes to maintain a place to practice their sport.

With regards to this thread, I will say that a person with the attitude of Mr. Long likely would not have been hired by the company that I worked for.  Had he been hired, he would not have lasted one week with his approach to handling correspondence.


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## General Lee

matthewsman said:


> It's funny now ,but wait 'til you find that the land you have first right of refusal on is leased out from under you while you're showing it to prospective members...


Aw MM,I wasn't laughing at anyone,I was just laughing at how crazy this whole situation has been.I said Mrs Thueson was a nice lady to me and while Mr Long may be a fine gentleman himself,his reply to DM about the buttterflies was over the top IMO.I hope everyone finds the lease they are looking for and has an enjoyable season........


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## Bruz




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## Just 1 More




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## short stop

time to move on ------ 
      When you hook  2 mules up on back to back  you dont get much work done  and you sure dont get anywhere


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## fatboy84

short stop said:


> time to move on ------
> When you hook  2 mules up on back to back  you dont get much work done  and you sure dont get anywhere



Kinda harsh calling Bruz a mule, don't ya think?


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## Perry Hayes




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## short stop

It's  just a figure of speech  my  PoP's  used ta tell me as a child . --- lol .


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## thetrock

Man, I hope our timber company doesn't get sold to any of these companies!  Our prices are still reasonable and the company is very friendly to us.  But, if they start any of this stuff, I'm gone!  Hunting is supposed to be fun and when you have to put up with this type **, it's time to quit or hunt the free lands!  

I'm applaud DM for posting this info on these boards and hope people keep posting any issues with these companies.


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## bull0ne

DoeMaster said:


> I contacted the Leasing Office at St Regis Paper Company, LLC last Thursday to ask if a tract of land that had been advertised on the Woody's "Lease" thread was still available.  I was informed that is was still available.  I informed the lease agent that I had only seen a map of the property and said that I'd like to see it in-person before agreeing to lease it.  The exact words of the lease agent were "no problem, I'll hold it for you until you contact me".  This conversation occured about noon.  The conversation was very brief.  The leasing agent provided no other details and sounded very nice and sincere.  Afterwards, I immediately took the afternoon off from my work and went to see the property.  It was 100 miles round-trip.  It was after dark when I returned home.  I immediately e-mailed the leasing agent and informed her that I wanted to lease the property.  I also called her cell phone that has a recording of available lease property and ask that you leave a message and someone will eventually return your call.  I left a message saying that I wanted to lease the property and would she please contact me to discuss the lease procedures.  The next morning (Friday) I received an e-mail message from her saying that she had already leased the property to someone else because I didn't get back with her before 6pm on Thursday afternoon.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.  I quickly e-mailed her back and told her that she never informed me that I had a 6pm deadline and asked if she would reconsider.  Her next response said that the deadline was final and that she would not have agreed to hold the property for me without a deposit.  This was a lie.  I sent a complaint about the incident to the St Regis Paper Company, LLC and here is the reply I received:
> 
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Ralph Long <stregispaper@hotmail.com>
> To: gatorfan262@yahoo.com; david.jones6@robins.af.mil
> Cc: Brenda Thueson <bthueson@msn.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:56:03 PM
> Subject: FW: Leasing Office
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Patterson:
> 
> I am sorry for your disappointment, but that is a fact of life.  When you asked Ms. Thueson if the tract was available and she replied that it was, you should have tied it up immediately.  I can’t imagine anyone inquiring about a tract for lease without some prior knowledge of that tract; according to your e-mail you asked about this specific tract.  Then instead of immediately leasing it, you take the afternoon off to watch butterflies and smell the flowers; you deserve to lose the tract.
> 
> St. Regis Paper Company, LLC has never held any tract for anyone without a deposit, that is company policy, and if she had done anything differently, she would have been in violation of company policy.
> 
> As for your attempted character assassination of Ms. Thueson, it didn’t work.  She has an excellent work ethic and is of the highest moral character.  If I were to try to find fault with her, the only criticism I can make is that she puts too much effort in working with hunters.  We have over three hundred hunters on our list looking for land to lease; she did the right thing leasing the tract.
> 
> Ralph Long
> 
> 
> Is it just me........or is this response pretty immature and childish?  I assume that Mr Long is the leasing agent's boss/supervisor.  I find it hard to believe that a successful company like St Regis Paper, LLC would condone such an unprofessional response to a customer complaint.  If so, I guess the leasing agent did me a favor....LoL.
> 
> How about Mr Long's comment that his leasing agent's only fault is that she puts too much effort into working with hunters.  I would think that hunters are the primary people who lease timber land.......who else would she work with??



When demand far outweighs supply the potential customer becomes disposable. 

The people you were dealing with took the option of not  following through on a promise  and the second party chose to send a condescending email out as a reply.................with little or no consequences to their actions.


DM..........thanks for the warning.


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## Confederate_Jay

Disposable- as in, treated like trash. Well said BullOne


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## Bruz

fatboy84 said:


> Kinda harsh calling Bruz a mule, don't ya think?



Hey...How'd I get dragged back into this Fatboy? 

I made my last(well next to last) post in this thread earlier today......

If anyone can defend these folks actions and attitudes at this point then there is no reason to keep "discussin" it.


----------

