# Liberty's oppertunities?



## gordon 2 (Aug 29, 2012)

This tread idea got its genesis by reviewing the tread Does God punish churches and nations... and my reading scripture last night and Galations 5:13 was a bit of a light bulb moment ...

Galations 5:13

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

1. Can someone point to liberty used as an oppertunity for the flesh?

2. And can someone point to "How",with examples,we serve one another through love in the context here?

I know this is basic, fundamental even, or something we would ask and expect grade school children to respond to, but I'm wondering what example(s) we would give them if they asked us the above questions. 

Your thoughts ladies and gentlemen?


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## hummerpoo (Aug 29, 2012)

Originality fails me so I'll attempt to reply with an example from scripture, James 2:1-13.

1. The well-to-do individual is shown favor by the brothers because it would be a great coup for their group to be favored by an influential member of the community, while telling themselves that they are simply reaching out to an unbeliever and patting themselves on the back for allowing the down-and-out fellow to be associated with them.  The same liberty (to associate with sinners) being abused (to be seen by men) in both cases.
2. If, however, Mr. Well-to-do is being shown favor because he is a “neighbor”, with no regard for how the world will view them, they are doing well (vs 8).  This, of coarse, dictates that Mr. Down-and-out must be shown the same favor.

I grant that I have some liberty by adding unstated motivation to the actions of the characters in this passage.


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## gordon 2 (Aug 31, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> Originality fails me so I'll attempt to reply with an example from scripture, James 2:1-13.
> 
> 1. The well-to-do individual is shown favor by the brothers because it would be a great coup for their group to be favored by an influential member of the community, while telling themselves that they are simply reaching out to an unbeliever and patting themselves on the back for allowing the down-and-out fellow to be associated with them.  The same liberty (to associate with sinners) being abused (to be seen by men) in both cases.
> 2. If, however, Mr. Well-to-do is being shown favor because he is a “neighbor”, with no regard for how the world will view them, they are doing well (vs 8).  This, of coarse, dictates that Mr. Down-and-out must be shown the same favor.
> ...



Good examples. I was hoping for something outside of the church...something from the evening news or in the community at large...

I find it interesting that there is only one response... I am not loading the question...


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## hummerpoo (Aug 31, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> I find it interesting that there is only one response......



As do I, with my response being weak on the overall passage.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 31, 2012)

I've thought about answering this post a few times and even started typing and quit. It is a hard question for some reason. I don't even have any examples. Maybe it's reminding us that we are trying too hard to see what we can get out of this "liberty" thing for ourselves. Is it wrong to put ourselves & our family first? Should I drive a Corolla instead of a Lexus and give the difference to the poor? I think it might be stepping on peoples toes. My wife thinks rich people should give away their riches. I said then why don't we give away our's? She said we aren't rich. I said we are richer than others.(I drive a 94 Corolla by the way). Anyway you look at it most people could live without to help others who really need help. Not people who are more into drinking & socializing and not working. I feel if you are poor and not working at least 60 hours a week and spend money on booze and lottery tickets, don't come to me for help.
Okay back on track, with "liberty" the "help" shifts from the government to fellow men. I think this is the way it should be. This is a hard question to keep under religion and not politics. This may be way off base from what you are asking. 
Maybe when slaves were granted Liberty in the South would be a good example. It was probably hard on them to have this liberty without help of the local white and free people of color.
Sorta of a ramble, I guess that's why i was reluctant to respond in the first place.


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## gordon 2 (Sep 11, 2012)

On the Flesh Paul says this: Galatians 5 KJV

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

He also says this concerning those who would  want us to return to the law and the flesh: 12: I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
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Now concerning the serving of one another through love.

Paul says this: 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23. gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 

Sooooooo.... examples in our lives and communities (large and small)...would be? Hum.... how about items that would promote love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and that bug bear...self-control.

Sharing the message of the Good News yes...but in our day to day  how do we promote joy, love, gentleness, faithfulness, longsuffering, kindness.... not from and for an inward ( or our inner world) struggle ( as we are led by the Spirit and it should no longer be a great individual struggle according to Paul) but by the struggles we percieve and know in our outward world--or the community and relationships surrounding us?  

Paul says this: Galatians 6:10

Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.


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