# All Upfront



## newnature (Aug 10, 2014)

We need to understand that forgiveness was all upfront and all-inclusive, but when we accept this idea of conditional forgiveness/forgiveness on the installment plan; a little forgiveness here, a little forgiveness there, the need for new forgiveness for new sin, that is the atonement program of Israel, not the reconciliation program of the body of Christ. We are saved unto good works, we are saved for the purpose of good works, but we are not saved by our good works, or kept saved by our good works, or not upon any promise you might make along those lines, but upon Christ’s righteousness and your faith in Christ’s faithful sacrifice on your behalf.â€¨

God has set you apart and he calls you righteous based not upon what you do or what you abstain from doing, God decided to give a judicial decree of rightness apart from our behavior, apart from our practice based solely on our belief. The judicial decree of rightness God grants to those who believe is called justification, God alters your identity by removing you judicially in God’s mind from an identification with the first Adam and now you are judicially identified with the second Adam (Jesus Christ). That joining itself is where sanctification comes into play; God gifts every believer with a judicial decree of perfection, perfect righteousness.â€¨

Most have the idea that sanctification means to become progressively less sinful, therefore, progressively more holy down through the course of time through the avenue of either their promise or performance, their conduct or commitment. Relative righteousness comes into play as we try to sanctify ourselves according to what we perceive in our judicial minds, relative righteousness based, as to be righteous. Therefore, we stop doing some things, and we start doing some other things and we begin to believe that we are a prize package especially if we can relate and be connected to a large group doing the same thing. That is self-sanctification.


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## Day trip (Aug 13, 2014)

So you say, no matter what, We are all saved?  Well I'm going to go rob a bank and get some money so I can sit back and enjoy myself now that this religion thing is solved. Key west here I come!  
Now you did say that God calls me righteous no matter what I do or what I abstain from doing, right?  So this is ok, right?  

My point really being is that we do have choices and there is work to be done.   This idea of "we are all saved", shouldn't it be "Christ has provided us the opportunity to be saved by believing in him which means we listen to him and follow his directions?  Not sitting back and living for pleasures of the flesh because the work has been done for us."


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## Day trip (Aug 13, 2014)

And I guess my real question is, how do you believe in Christ?  It seems the first post assumes you are already a believer and on the path to righteousness.  In which case I agree with everything said.   But to make those statements to someone trying to discover God, it is very confusing.?.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 13, 2014)

Day trip said:


> And I guess my real question is, how do you believe in Christ?  It seems the first post assumes you are already a believer and on the path to righteousness.  In which case I agree with everything said.   But to make those statements to someone trying to discover God, it is very confusing.?.



It's the so-called Free Grace vs. Lordship Salvation Debate.
I was on that religious rollercoaster for years. I would say the Lordship Salvation statements are confusing to someone trying to escape the eternal death of their sins.  
Free grace is what God said it is, it's free to us paid by his Son. If we could live right without it, Jesus didn't need to die.
Shall we still sin just because free grace allows us to? The answer is, why would you want to? 
Who is worse than who? Who is better than whom? 

Luke 13:3-5
A Call to Repentance
3"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."


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## Day trip (Aug 13, 2014)

Art, thanks for tolerating my sarcasm to make a point.  Even in the verse from Luke that you quoted,  we are called to repent by Jesus or perish!  That doesn't sound at all like forgiveness up front and all inclusive to me. That sounds very much like we have to make a conscious effort to believe in Jesus and everything that goes along with it until it becomes natural to us.  Then when we totally submit to God....


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 14, 2014)

Day trip said:


> Art, thanks for tolerating my sarcasm to make a point.  Even in the verse from Luke that you quoted,  we are called to repent by Jesus or perish!  That doesn't sound at all like forgiveness up front and all inclusive to me. That sounds very much like we have to make a conscious effort to believe in Jesus and everything that goes along with it until it becomes natural to us.  Then when we totally submit to God....



Repent or change FROM believing you can save yourself TO believing Jesus can save you. This is a one time repentance for salvation. 

Now at this point, after salvation is the beginning of a new journey. I'm not sure what the correct name of the new journey is supposed to be called. I hope it's a progressive approach to Holiness.

This does bring up another question though, why ask for forgiveness daily or weekly if you know in your heart God has already forgave you?
Perhaps this daily or weekly repentance is confession and we do it out of honor and humbleness. It does remind us of our daily actions and how they affect our journey.


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