# .50 Cal basic load



## Deernut3 (Sep 5, 2014)

I just ordered a CVA Optima .50 Cal. After much reading and gleaning I have settled on starting out with 2- 50 gr pyrodex pellets and a 245 or 250 grain Powerbelt with the plastic tip. I may also try some of the Hornady bullets that are actually .45 cal in a sabot and  some 777 to try. Any other recommendations ?


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 5, 2014)

.50 caliber 350 grain T/C Maxi-hunter over 90-100 grains of loose pyrodex or other BP sub. Plastic has no place in muzzleloader projectiles. A solid chunk of lead hits a deer like Thor's hammer at ML velocities. And the loose powder touches off faster and more reliably, can be customized for the most accurate load much easier. I have sold most of my inline-shooting friends on this combo after they have tried all the "modern" projectiles and pellets. Because it works. Modern projectiles work best with modern rifles. I have done muost of my deer hunting with MLs for the last 20-25 years, killed many, many, many deer with them, and have found that nothing beats a heavy chunk of lead.


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## georgia_home (Sep 5, 2014)

i am also at 90g of ... trip 7, iirc. it's been a while since i broke out the bp guns. but that shot well. i was throwing the hornady bullets, forget the grain, sabots. somewhere in the 300-range.


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## dwinsor (Sep 5, 2014)

If I were you I would ditch the Power Belts, I have an Accura V2 and I couldn't get a 5" group with them.  If you load the powerbelts too light they will pencil thru a deer with no expansion, if you load them too heavy they will disentigrate.  The platimun bullets are for magnum loads of over 100 grain powder.  A lot of people swear by them, I hear they are accurate.

The best load I have sighted in to date is the hornady 250 grain  .45 cal SST/ML bullet, #45202, (same thing as a yellow tip thompson center, Hornady makes them for T/C.) use this bullet with a T/C super glide sabot, LG Outdoors has them, and also the bullets.  I use 100 grains of BH 209.  At 100 yards I can put 6 bullets in a 3/4" group.  Good for out to 200 yards.

    The next bullet I would recommend would be a Hornady .44 Cal 300 grain XTP #44280, I would shoot this bullit using a H15044GR harvester crush rib sabot (green), I use 100 grains of BH 209.  With this load I would keep my shots at a maximum of 100 yards.  At 100 yard my group was 1 1/2".

I don't think T7 as a powder would be that much difference from BH 209, except BH 209 I think has a little more power and you don't have to clean between shots if you don't want to.

     Here is a little more information, for BH 209, it could also apply to shooting T7 Powder.  I have to clean my barrel on the range between every shot,to keep 1st shot out of group occurances down.  Solvent, patch, then Lube, patch and load. Then  there are no first shot fliers.  You don't have to clean the flash channel every 2 shots and you don't have to remove the Breech Plug to clean the flash channel.  I streetch cleaning the flash channel out to every 6 shots.  Check this out at $15.95 a kit and free shipping it is a good deal and will last forever,   http://www.plugcleaner.com/    You adjust the collar on the drill bit, so the bit will be about .005 away from your flash hole, with this set up you will never damage the flash hole over time from too much pressure on the drill bit.  When you do clean your Breech Plug at the range, point your gun barrel up,  use the proper size drill bit, when you pull the bit out of the BP the carbon will fall out of the Breech Plug.   Otherwise you might get carbon in the flash hole of the breech plug.  Then you will need tool #2 out of the kit.   One other thing about the Breech Plug, I use 2 wraps of Teflon tape on the BP.  The only people on threads that have a stuck BP, are not using Teflon tape.  I am sure that grease and never seize works fine if you do it right, but I just did not like the messy cleanup of the barrel threads  If for any reason you have to push a charge out of your gun the grease in the threads will catch powder or contaminate pellets as you dump the powder charge.  Then cleanup is worse and you can't reuse your powder.  Using Teflon you just put the BP back in your gun if the Teflon looks good or remove old tape and put new tape on.  If you shot your gun I would definetly put new Teflon tape on after you clean the breech plug.  Nice shooting, if the kit from plug cleaner does not have a coller for the drill bit size you need, for a low price they will make a collar for your bit, if you do shoot BH 209 you will have to buy a BH 209 Breech plug from CVA or Western powders.  The CVA BH 209 Breech Plug needs a 1/8" drill bit.  The Western Powders Plug comes with a drill bit.  The OEM Breech Plug for my CVA Accura V2  takes a .116 or #32 drill bit, it is for mainly shooting pellet powder, that is what I have heard, I never shot the OEM Breech Plug.  The drill bits in the kit are .116 and a .120 drill bit.  The CVA Breech Plug is a little cheaper at about $32.00 and the Western Powders is suppose to have some internal improvements it is about $32.00. I shoot the CVA plug and have not had any problems related.  Hope all this helps, and good shooting.  Be sure to post back and let us know your setup and how she shoots.


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## collardncornbread (Sep 6, 2014)

dwinsor said:


> If I were you I would ditch the Power Belts, I have an Accura V2 and I couldn't get a 5" group with them.  If you load the powerbelts too light they will pencil thru a deer with no expansion, if you load them too heavy they will disentigrate.  The platimun bullets are for magnum loads of over 100 grain powder.  A lot of people swear by them, I hear they are accurate.
> 
> The best load I have sighted in to date is the hornady 250 grain  .45 cal SST/ML bullet, #45202, (same thing as a yellow tip thompson center, Hornady makes them for T/C.) use this bullet with a T/C super glide sabot, LG Outdoors has them, and also the bullets.  I use 100 grains of BH 209.  At 100 yards I can put 6 bullets in a 3/4" group.  Good for out to 200 yards.
> 
> ...



SO. Does this mean that I cant ,or shouldnt shoot Black Hawk 209 in my CVA optima unless I buy a different Breech plug?? I shoot it in my TC Omega and it shoots fine. actually shoots much better with BH209 than with pyrodex pellets.
Thanks for the teflon tip.
I have pushed a load out and it does make a mess.
CC


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## dwinsor (Sep 6, 2014)

You can't shoot BH 209 in a CVA Optima unless you buy the BH 209 breech plug from CVA or Western Powders.  If you try to shoot BH 209 in an OEM Optima you will experience erratic misfires.  It might shoot fine on the range and when you are deer hunting it may misfire, or vise versa.  To shoot BH 209 use a CCI 209 or a Winchester WW 209 Primer.  I hear a federal 209A primer is good to.  The CVA BH 209 plug cost about $32.00, this is what I use.  The Western Powders plug cost about $39.95.

    I have a OEM T/C Pro Hunter, it will fire any powder you put down the barrel, have never had a misfire, I think all other T/C's are the same, has to do with the breech plug design.  I don't fire pellets, they are to restrictive when developing a load, do your self a favor if you don't shoot BH 209, use a powder.

    My go to gun is my CVA Accura V2, one of the strongest muzzleloaders made, don't ask me how I know.  Takes a beating and maintains its pattern.

    Purchasing the BH 209 Breech Plug and shooting BH 209 is one of the best investments you can make.

    The CVA BH 209 breech plug takes a 1/8" drill bit to clean the Flash channel.  The Western Powders CVA BH 209 breech plug comes with the proper drill bit.  Clean your fire channel about every 6 shots.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 6, 2014)

Mine is simple. 

In my Plains percussion rifle, 70 grains of FFFg DuPont Goex blackpowder under a patched pure lead .490 round ball.

In my flintlock longrifle, 60 grains of FFFg DuPont Goex blackpowder under a patched pure lead .490 round ball.

Both rifles like a .10,000 thickness cotton patch. Both loads punch all the way through a deer and kill very effectively. Highly accurate too.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Sep 6, 2014)

I use 100-110 gr Pyrodex or 777 with MMP sabots and 45 cal
lead HP bullets or 45cal 250-300gr HP or SP with sabots,,,,,

Very accurate and blows right thru deer with heat shot...


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## 2dogs (Sep 6, 2014)

I have an older CVA Wolf 209 magnum rifle.  I have always used 2 50gr. 777 pellets and a powerbelt 295gr. bullet.  I have taken many deer with this load and then hunted in Illinois and shot a nice 10 point at about 40 yards away.  Deer bled like crazy, walked away, jumped the fence and the other side opened up on him.  I then upped my load to 3 50gr. pellets of 777 pushing a 245gr. powerbelt and the accuracy was all over the target.  I have now gone back to my original load of 2 50gr. pellets of 777 and a 295gr. powerbelt.  I will soon know if that was the right thing to do or not.  Season opens soon..Semper Fi...


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 6, 2014)

Nicodemus said:


> Mine is simple.
> 
> In my Plains percussion rifle, 70 grains of FFFg DuPont Goex blackpowder under a patched pure lead .490 round ball.
> 
> ...



You're wasting your breath, Nic. They'll never believe that a solid lead bullet will outperform these modern plastic things. You have to show them that blackpowder ain't smokeless. One of my best friends has been shooting solid lead bore-diameter bullets for several years out of his inline after I talked him into trying them, he's probably killed 50 deer with that setup so far, and will never go back to modern bullets in a sabot, or plastic-tipped light conicals. Nothing works at blackpowder velocities like a big, heavy chunk of lead.


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## Deernut3 (Sep 6, 2014)

NCHillbilly said:


> They'll never believe that a solid lead bullet will outperform these modern plastic things. You have to show them that blackpowder ain't smokeless.



    Out of respect for your opinion I would like to try these lead thingys but I can't seem to find them, no joke. I went to four different stores today and ALL they carry are copper plated / sabot type rifle looking bullets. Will I have to order them ?


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## tv_racin_fan (Sep 6, 2014)

Midway USA has a decent selection.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/53...d-hollow-point-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/96...int-lubricated-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/24...int-lubricated-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/57...ose-lubricated-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/96...ose-lubricated-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_99_311_313

I found most of what I have at the local Wal Mart, purchased them at the end of season when they went on sale.


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## dwinsor (Sep 6, 2014)

For the lead thingys here is a link to some T/C Maxie's.  I wouldn't recommend using them, as they have no expansion at all.  I know I killed a lot of deer with them.  Pencil in a little hole and pencil out a little hole.  Your shot has to be spot on, no room for error, never recovered a bullet over many years of hunting with them.  Well I won't keep you waiting:  http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=.50 cal Maxie bullets  One other thing track of the wolf lists to use as a lube #LUBE-SPG or #LUBE-BP-7H.  I am not familiar with either one of these.

You will need some lube with the T/C Conical here is the Lube used to lubricate the bullet:  http://www.jgsales.com/advanced_sea...0&main-search-btn.y=0&search_in_description=1
    What ever you do never get into the habit of lubing your bore with this T/C lube, you will be in trouble years down the road.  The old T/C natural lube ruined 2 of my guns and I didn't put too much on.  I dries hard between your rifling, you loose accuracy over the years, I was told I could put boiling water down the bore and us a wire brush to clean the barrel.  I cleaned my rifles with boiling soap and water so I figured if that didn't get it out, a brush wouldn't do much good either.  There are a lot of people using it that swear by it.  I think it aggravates them when I talk like this.  By the way T/C gave me 4 barrels for my Renegade because of bore butter and since they don't make traditional guns anymore and don't have parts for them I guess I don't have a warranty on the Cherokee.  In a round about way that is what they told me.  The only thing it is good for is to lube the maxie bullets, nothing else.  Then make sure you clean it out of the bore of your barrel.  This T17 lube might be better but I wouldn't trust it.  To lube your gun there are too many better products today.

    As far as anything else to lube your barrel with here it is:  http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_gunlube.php

    When I put it in my barrel if I am shooting at the range I patch it dry.  If I clean my gun to put it in the safe I do not patch it dry.
     Put Slip 2000 on your gun and in the bore of the gun, wait 10 minutes and patch the bore and wipe your gun down.  The gun will be dry to the touch but protected.  It won't gather dust.  It is a CLP but I am anal and still use Hoppe's Elite gun cleaner as a solvent, but it won't get plastic off.  Temp range is -130 deg to 1250 deg.  It cleans Powder Residue, carbon, copper, lead and plastic.  Works in rain, snow, sleet, whatever.  It will not react adversely on black powder, substitutes or modern fouling other than to clean stuff off.  It will not damage a camouflage finish.     Well I will quit talking about it, you have the link and all this is in it.


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## Deernut3 (Sep 6, 2014)

I bought 4 different bullets and intended to get a couple different powders but could only find 777. If you ask for Pyrodex they hand you triple 7, whats up with that ?  I'm going to get the Mloader bore sighted before I start shooting. I guess what I'm really looking for is the most consistent load that I can find. Thanks for all the advice, I may be leaning on ya'll some more before I get it right.


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## FrontierGander (Sep 6, 2014)

Factory made Maxiballs stink for expansion due to the harder lead they use but if you cast your own with soft lead, they do excellent. 

I personally have had the maxiballs fail on deer when using factory made. They are just to hard and it just did not shock the deer in any way.

I just got a 54cal maxiball mold in the mail yesterday to go along with the 50cal mold i already have.


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## FrontierGander (Sep 6, 2014)

By the way, if you want to spend money wisely on solid performing bullets, check out www.thorbullets.com they are a Barnes bullet but in full bore diameter size.

A CVA Optima I had, along with the rest of my CVA's LOVE them in 250 grains along with 100 grains Blackhorn209.

Optima @ 100 yards with this set up. 3 shots


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## dwinsor (Sep 6, 2014)

Frontier I agree with you, in 1984 it was the same way.  I got me a maxie 430 grain mold and made my own, you could tear a bullet up with your finger nail, my lead was that soft.  I hunted for years with them, 2" group at 100 yards, but they had no terminal balistics what so ever.  If OP gets Maxies or any other conical I don't think he will have good terminal ballistics. JMO


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## FrontierGander (Sep 6, 2014)

The Powerbelt Aerolite in 250 grains and 100gr Blackhorn209 is also a killer load.





















Camera man didn't get the right deer on camera but we got the blood trail along with some extras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-59NeE_OimM


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## GunnSmokeer (Sep 8, 2014)

*pellets or loose powder*

pre-formed pellets are so popular these days, and have largely replaced loose black powder or Pyrodex as propellant.  2 pellets for a standard load, and 3 pellets for a "magnum" load, if your rifle is rated for it.

But in this thread, it has been said that loose powder ignites more reliably.

QUESTION:

If you have a rifle that is rated for 3 powder pellets (magnum load), can you choose to dump a small amount of loose powder down the barrel first, for reliable ignition, and then two (just 2) pellets, then your projectile?    This should give you a slightly more powerful than standard load that is still not up to magnum levels, and it should be more reliable.

Is this safe?  Does anybody actually do this?


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## BEAN (Sep 11, 2014)

Who in the Newnan area sells Pyrodex pellets?


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## Kanook (Sep 12, 2014)

Get yourself a Lee REAL (rifling engraved at loading) mould and some pure lead and make your own. It's not hard to do at all and is very satisfying when done.


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## Stroker (Sep 15, 2014)

The Power Belts are a solid lead projectile coated with copper. My old CVA Lighting Bolt has taken probably 30+ deer in 20 years. Two 50 grain Pyrodex pellets and a 295 grain Power Belt HP has never failed to exit,never had a deer go more than 50 yards,many DRT. This load will shoot a 1-2 inch group@100 yards for the first 3 shots, plenty for deer out to 150-175 yards. For the one week of black powder season where 90% of my shots are 100 yards or less this load is simple, effective, and works for me.


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## ALB (Sep 16, 2014)

I stopped using the Power Belts because I couldn't keep a group and I lost a deer with them. Knocked here down but got up and ran with little blood. never found her. 
Now use a .44 with sabots. 2 50gr pellets.


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## merc123 (Sep 17, 2014)

I just sighted in mine with 200 grain T/C shockwaves with 100 grains of 777 pellets.  The 250 grain (black sabot) only shot about an inch lower at 100 yards so I know I can interchange.  The 295 powerbelts with 100 and 150 grains of pellets shot about 2 feet low at 100 yards.


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