# Hot, cold, or worse?



## Bob2010 (Oct 15, 2014)

What does it mean to be luke warm? How does this relate to salvation?  How does this relate to repentance?  Is it the same as the soil parable?  He said he will spit you out. That is the maximum amount of disgust!  Spit! So what is luke warm?

`He says, "I know what you do. I know that you are neither cold nor hot. And I wish that you were cold or hot.

16CensoredSo I will spit you out of my mouth, because you are only warm and not hot or cold.


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## formula1 (Oct 15, 2014)

*Re:*

This is a man with two faces, two Gods, two worlds to live in because wants the best of both! Every heard of 'straddling the fence'?  And God hates it!

James 1
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 

But it really boils down to this:

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me." 

As it relates to salvation, Does the man described above truly love and trust his Savior above all?


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## mtnwoman (Oct 15, 2014)

This country is becoming luke warm.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 15, 2014)

formula1 said:


> This is a man with two faces, two Gods, two worlds to live in because wants the best of both! Every heard of 'straddling the fence'?  And God hates it!
> 
> James 1
> 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
> ...



Of course I agree 100% with your outlook here formula1 especially this  "Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me." 


You would think that this was obvious... but just now I visit my facebook home page and someone posted this--- as if it was fundamental as a parental responsibility in life!

{Quote:}

no matter what happens
MY KIDS COME FIRST
it's that simple

Share if you agree.

{End Quote}

How easy it is to go from hot to luke warm without batting an eye.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 15, 2014)

mtnwoman said:


> This country is becoming luke warm.



From being hot or being cold?


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## mtnwoman (Oct 15, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> From being hot or being cold?



From being hotter to being colder.


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## formula1 (Oct 15, 2014)

*Re:*



gordon 2 said:


> How easy it is to go from hot to luke warm without batting an eye.



Indeed! And I resemble that as well.  But thanks be to God who rescues me from myself and insists on having me share in His riches, so much so that He will go to great lengths to insure that I stumble back onto His path!

What an awesome God we serve!!!


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 15, 2014)

Do you realize that this contradicts saved by grace. Paul preached hard that grace plus works disqualified the use of the word grace. But here we see what seemingly is someone who is not questioned as to his belief/standing, but is rather judged by his works. As if he is saved but still cast out. The book of revelation was added much later. It should not qualify for inspired


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## formula1 (Oct 15, 2014)

*re:*

Not about works but priorities. What if is belief but trust and what is trust but love and dedication to our Lord and Savior?

If one loves, what does one do? He serves out of Love and seeks to please the one who is loved! That is all!

There is no contradiction here.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 15, 2014)

formula1 said:


> Not about works but priorities. What if is belief but trust and what is trust but love and dedication to our Lord and Savior?
> 
> If one loves, what does one do? He serves out of Love and seeks to please the one who is loved! That is all!
> 
> There is no contradiction here.


So your saying we are saved by a priorty scale, some pass the mark... and others don't?


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## formula1 (Oct 15, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> So your saying we are saved by a priorpty scale, some pass the mark... and others don't?



No priority scale, just those who live for the One who bought them. Interesting that 'might' is included here. He knew that some would not!

Are you controlled by Christ?

2 Corinthians 5:15
14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 15, 2014)

formula1 said:


> No priority scale, just those who live for the One who bought them. Interesting that 'might' is included here. He knew that some would not!
> 
> Are you controlled by Christ?
> 
> ...


So how did the thief on the cross qualify?


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## formula1 (Oct 15, 2014)

*Re:*

Sorry I was at church!

The thief was transformed when he recognized who Jesus was (by faith), which is the same way you and I are justified.

Luke 23
40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

And what scripture have I posted that you are saved any other way?

If you love Jesus and you are the benefactor of His grace, you will love Him and others and serve them, not because you must, but because you want to!  You can call that works if you so choose, I'll call it gratefulness for the grace I received.

Had the thief survived, he would have followed Jesus for that same reason.


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## Bob2010 (Oct 15, 2014)

formula1 said:


> Sorry I was at church!
> 
> The thief was transformed when he recognized who Jesus was (by faith), which is the same way you and I are justified.
> 
> ...



Pastor tonight said obedience is something you have to do. A task that you are making yourself do. Surrender changes obedience into something that's a joy or privilege.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 15, 2014)

Bob2010 said:


> Pastor tonight said obedience is something you have to do. A task that you are making yourself do. Surrender changes obedience into something that's a joy or privilege.



Pastor is a smart dude.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 15, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> Pastor is a smart dude.



Amen!!


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> So how did the thief on the cross qualify?



Did He?  All we know for sure is that he died and went to paradise.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

Revelations was highly resisted upon being part of the canon. Probably the only reason it made it was that some assumed it was written by John. This is not proven. Actually much exist against such as writing style, grammer, content, and theology. It has many places where it contridicts saved by faith


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Revelations was highly resisted upon being part of the canon. Probably the only reason it made it was that some assumed it was written by John. This is not proven. Actually much exist against such as writing style, grammer, content, and theology. It has many places where it contridicts saved by faith



I think there is no doubt John penned Revelation and the only debate I've seen over it is the time it was written, also if Revelation need not be in the Canon because of style,then many other books need to come out too, such as Zechariah, Jeremiah, Isaiah....it's apacolyptic, symbolic language that was written to the first century church, they understood it perfectly.

On saved by grace not supported by Revelation, what do you make of this? :22:17 And the spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I think there is no doubt John penned Revelation and the only debate I've seen over it is the time it was written, also if Revelation need not be in the Canon because of style,then many other books need to come out too, such as Zechariah, Jeremiah, Isaiah....it's apacolyptic, symbolic language that was written to the first century church, they understood it perfectly.
> 
> On saved by grace not supported by Revelation, what do you make of this? :22:17 And the spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.


I don't know "writing styles" or greek grammar, etc, but the argument is there that by scholars that the book of John and Revelation don't look like they could have came from the same person. I realize everyone wants them to be the same, but I don't even believe John wrote John. He writes  in third person "the one whom Jesus loved". Or "this is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true". Or "this is the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper.." Now for a contextural point. How could John's and Acts debut of the Holy Spirit coming upon mankind be so different? As far as Revelations, The theology is different. It is no longer saved by grace/faith but in revelations, your are saved by works. More, And we know that everything will be destroyed in the end except God Holy Ones. But we see in Rev 22;15 "outside are the dogs". Trinitarians should have issue with this: I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God..... coming down from the heaven of my God. These are the words of the amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. I have no issue with this being Unitarian, but Trins should ask how does Jesus in heaven have a God????


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## barryl (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Revelations was highly resisted upon being part of the canon. Probably the only reason it made it was that some assumed it was written by John. This is not proven. Actually much exist against such as writing style, grammer, content, and theology. It has many places where it contridicts saved by faith


How bout' (faith&works)  Rev. Ch.13{Mark of the Beast}{Faith&Works in the Tribulations} Rev. Ch 14:8-12 KJV 1611 AV


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I don't know "writing styles" or greek grammar, etc, but the argument is there that by scholars that the book of John and Revelation don't look like they could have came from the same person. I realize everyone wants them to be the same, but I don't even believe John wrote John. He writes  in third person "the one whom Jesus loved". Or "this is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true". Or "this is the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper.."



 Not just John but all the Gospels are written like this. Why? I dont know, but that doesnt exclude John as author.






1gr8bldr said:


> Now for a contextural point. How could John's and Acts debut of the Holy Spirit coming upon mankind be so different?



 Are they? please explain, Im assuming your still in Johns Gospel?




1gr8bldr said:


> As far as Revelations, The theology is different. It is no longer saved by grace/faith but in revelations, your are saved by works. More, And we know that everything will be destroyed in the end except God Holy Ones. But we see in Rev 22;15 "outside are the dogs".



Exactly...Everything in Revelation is in our past for the exception of CH. 22,{ Not exactly the kind of end you were thinking of but again its apocalyptic language youre not accustomed to studying}  which is in our present and the worlds future. Which begs...Come! Take from the water of life freely.

 Those of us today that hears, and is athirst can take of the water of life freely and be saved. This puts us inside the gates of the kingdom with eternal life...on the outside of the gates are the dogs etc. etc. that die/perish.



1gr8bldr said:


> Trinitarians should have issue with this: I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God..... coming down from the heaven of my God. These are the words of the amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. I have no issue with this being Unitarian, but Trins should ask how does Jesus in heaven have a God????



 I see no issue in Revelation, Jesus being the lamb...and the alpha and omega, and so on.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Not just John but all the Gospels are written like this. Why? I dont know, but that doesnt exclude John as author.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured you believed Jesus to be the creator? And how does God have a God?


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I figured you believed Jesus to be the creator? And how does God have a God?



God is the father,son,and holy ghost. I still dont understand the problem.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I think there is no doubt John penned Revelation and the only debate I've seen over it is the time it was written, also if Revelation need not be in the Canon because of style,then many other books need to come out too, such as Zechariah, Jeremiah, Isaiah....it's apacolyptic, symbolic language that was written to the first century church, they understood it perfectly.
> 
> On saved by grace not supported by Revelation, what do you make of this? :22:17 And the spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.



My daughter just sent me Zephaniah 2....check it out, too.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> God is the father,son,and holy ghost. I still dont understand the problem.



Amen!!

When babes of the gospel ask me, I explain it this way.

I am Annie in the flesh, I am Annie in the soul, and I am Annie in the spirit.  My soul is what sets my flesh in motion, my thoughts, temptations etc. My spirit is the part of me that I let Christ and HS take over which 'tries' to control my soul. My spirit which satan cannot touch or destroy goes after my soul, my thought process, then in turn causes my flesh to act according. With my soul connected to the spirit in me, I have learned and tried to achieve how to change my soul. I go on from there....but basically that's how I show how there is 3 in 1 person.

Hope that makes sense.


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

mtnwoman said:


> My daughter just sent me Zephaniah 2....check it out, too.



Oh, how I wish people would look into these days of the Lord that have been prophesied and come to pass, then read Revelation. They were always exagerated, and God usually sent an army of real people to destroy a city of people.

 My mom used to tell me when she was mad that my _ _ _ was grass and she was a lawnmower.   I knew what she meant but I wonder if people thousands of years from now , speaking a different language would be able to decipher it...another one would be so and so kicked the bucket... I bet that would throw folks off not knowing our terminology.

 Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the marriage of the lamb to whosoever will take of the water of life freely. It's about the end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new. Not about a physical end to the cosmos.


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## hummerpoo (Oct 16, 2014)

mtnwoman said:


> Amen!!
> 
> When babes of the gospel ask me, I explain it this way.
> 
> ...



Make sense?  It's great!!

Although I don't believe we are capable of, or intended to, understand the relationships among the Godhead, I have never encountered a better way to help a "babe" get beyond, or past, the trinity teaching that they commonly encounter.  And as good an explanation of our being as I've heard to boot.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 16, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> Make sense?  It's great!!
> 
> Although I don't believe we are capable of, or intended to, understand the relationships among the Godhead, I have never encountered a better way to help a "babe" get beyond, or past, the trinity teaching that they commonly encounter.  And as good an explanation of our being as I've heard to boot.



It is indeed great wisdom. Thanks Annie.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> God is the father,son,and holy ghost. I still dont understand the problem.


If the Father is God and the son is God, why does Jesus have a God?  And the ruler of God's creation implies that Jesus was not the creator


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> If the Father is God and the son is God, why does Jesus have a God?  And the ruler of God's creation implies that Jesus was not the creator


Actually that word "ruler" is arche which is beginning. Which is worse than ruler of God's creation because it makes Jesus part of Gods creation.


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> If the Father is God and the son is God, why does Jesus have a God?  And the ruler of God's creation implies that Jesus was not the creator



And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,the beginning of the creation of God;

Colossians1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

 In Old Testament , the first born is heir to the estate.  I dont believe this shows Jesus as actual born of God, but the heir to the kingdom.. The ruler of the new testament.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,the beginning of the creation of God;
> 
> Colossians1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
> 
> In Old Testament , the first born is heir to the estate.  I dont believe this shows Jesus as actual born of God, but the heir to the kingdom.. The ruler of the new testament.


Either way, it contridicts Jesus as the creator


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## hobbs27 (Oct 16, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Either way, it contridicts Jesus as the creator



Didn't the Father speak creation into existence? Isn't Jesus the Word of God?


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Didn't the Father speak creation into existence? Isn't Jesus the Word of God?



The word of God revealed. He is the image of the invisible God. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen his Father.
Jesus said the Father is greater than I. Jesus said only his Father knows. Jesus prayed to his God. We are joint heirs, with Jesus to God's Kingdom.
Jesus taught about his Father's Kingdom. Jesus used the power of his Father. His Father raised him from the dead.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Didn't the Father speak creation into existence? Isn't Jesus the Word of God?



Yes...Jesus is God in the flesh.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Didn't the Father speak creation into existence? Isn't Jesus the Word of God?


No disrespect, but I find it interesting that someone who will disect the he11 theory, ponder every word, break free from traditional thinking, yet is not bothered by this issue. Does the sentence you posted actually make sense to you? That Jesus is the word? How can a person be a word or the word? Sure John 1 says that. But this denies that the word "word" has any meaning. If I said in the beginning was the hat and hat was God and the hat became flesh and dwealt among us, everyone would oppose it saying Jesus is not a hat. Yet they have no problem with him being a word because they deny that word has meaning. Another angle, If Jesus is the word of God, how is he then God. You would have Father, Son and HS and his word, making 4, not 3


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

We are joint heirs, with Jesus.


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## hobbs27 (Oct 17, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> No disrespect, but I find it interesting that someone who will disect the he11 theory, ponder every word, break free from traditional thinking, yet is not bothered by this issue. Does the sentence you posted actually make sense to you? That Jesus is the word? How can a person be a word or the word? Sure John 1 says that. But this denies that the word "word" has any meaning. If I said in the beginning was the hat and hat was God and the hat became flesh and dwealt among us, everyone would oppose it saying Jesus is not a hat. Yet they have no problem with him being a word because they deny that word has meaning. Another angle, If Jesus is the word of God, how is he then God. You would have Father, Son and HS and his word, making 4, not 3



Perhaps this is something the spirit has not intrigued upon me to investigate? Or perhaps I realize God is a spirit and not a person at all, and that for just one little speck of time in history God the son came to the earth in the flesh, being 100% man and 100% God. A concept that is no doubt confusing. A concept that is not of this world, nor has to obey the rules of this world


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## hobbs27 (Oct 17, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> We are joint heirs, with Jesus.



Yes, as His bride.


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## gordon 2 (Oct 17, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> If the Father is God and the son is God, why does Jesus have a God?  And the ruler of God's creation implies that Jesus was not the creator



If one says  God (Jesus) has the Father in himself, it does not mean that he had a God outside of himself--which is what we have even if we have Christ in ourselves.

 Because of the our sin natures which continues even after our salvation, and which still cleave's to desires foreign to our relationship with God, God the Father, God the Son and  God the Holy Spirit seem seperate from one the other in a questionable sort of way.

 Because of our outlook due to our lives with bodies destined to corruption we must fight the body with our spirit in Christ to know life from the perspective of Jesus according to God's will ( Jesus in us) as our born again spirit can know.

 Perhaps when Jesus ministers to sinners he uses the language of the reality of sinners which is also our reality today. If Jesus prayed to the Father it is perhaps that as a minister to man he identified with man who's relationship with God was injured, who's outlooks were fractured. 

The reality of all in all is a reality in faith. And for Christians it is faith in Christ. The reality of the trinity is closer to this faith reality than the reality of the one devine. The reality of the trinity is closer communion with God, a more intimate relationship of the spirit of man and God, than one God aloft ( in his high place apart) of our spiritual and physical existence. The ministry of Christ provides for " God with us" even if we are not yet totally with Him. 

So perhaps from the perspective of our redeemed spirits in Christ that God is One, because the trinity is One. Yet even from the perspective of the born again yet still with flesh-minds, which yet in faith and hope we wait with great desire for the general resurrection, we accept that for now, for us, One is a trinity. And this means that God is the Father ( in relationship) and God is Jesus the son ( in relationship and the word made flesh) and God is the Holy Spirit ( Christ in us, the Spirit of the Divine ministering to our spirit and our body and the world ( our soul).   


Perhaps, maybe.... the idea of One God comes about from two perpectives. God due to the Noah's flood is powerful as a spirit of mercy and correction. And also, for the christians it is perhaps an overreaching from our  present reality of imperfection to the promise of the general resurrection where all will be in all, where our physical bodies will not be separated of our spirit relationship with God.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Perhaps this is something the spirit has not intrigued upon me to investigate? Or perhaps I realize God is a spirit and not a person at all, and that for just one little speck of time in history God the son came to the earth in the flesh, being 100% man and 100% God. A concept that is no doubt confusing. A concept that is not of this world, nor has to obey the rules of this world


I realize that you guys believe this, which I respect, but instead of people saying that a particular verse does not fit well with their theology, they step across it as if it did not exist. There are a few verses that do not fit my theology. John, 20;28 for example. I don't understand how God having a God is not problematic


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## hobbs27 (Oct 17, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I realize that you guys believe this, which I respect, but instead of people saying that a particular verse does not fit well with their theology, they step across it as if it did not exist. There are a few verses that do not fit my theology. John, 20;28 for example. I don't understand how God having a God is not problematic



Maybe instead of saying what we believe doesn't fit scripture you could offer an alternative to what scripture is truly saying, and do so without claiming the scripture has been corrupted.

I have a lot of questions that would need to be answered to consider Jesus is not God, one such question is why would the Father be ok with the Son being worshipped?

I've had to learn in the past when explaining preterism to futurist it's best to show what scripture actually says, and why it says it. You're dealing with a lot of preconceived ideology...heck everyone is taught Jesus is coming back some day in our future, over 75% of the hymns sang mention it..but it's not biblical in its proper hermeneutic.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Yes, as His bride.



Then we'll become God ourselves?

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

Hebrews 2:11
So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have the same Father. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters.

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Galatians 4:12
Dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to live as I do in freedom from these things, for I have become like you Gentiles--free from those laws. You did not mistreat me when I first preached to you.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

I've always believed we would become co-heirs in the form of adopted sons and brothers with Jesus.  

Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

If becoming the bride of Christ is literal as  meaning more than an analogy of Christ and the Church, then as we become his bride and heirs, we gain divinity. 
We become one with Jesus as in a marriage and we'll know what Jesus knows. Knowledge will be gained in Heaven, not on the earth.


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## 1gr8bldr (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Maybe instead of saying what we believe doesn't fit scripture you could offer an alternative to what scripture is truly saying, and do so without claiming the scripture has been corrupted.
> 
> I have a lot of questions that would need to be answered to consider Jesus is not God, one such question is why would the Father be ok with the Son being worshipped?
> 
> I've had to learn in the past when explaining preterism to futurist it's best to show what scripture actually says, and why it says it. You're dealing with a lot of preconceived ideology...heck everyone is taught Jesus is coming back some day in our future, over 75% of the hymns sang mention it..but it's not biblical in its proper hermeneutic.


I do not wish to convert anyone. I just point these things out, out of interest of how people ignore them. When verses are presented to me on the subject, I try to show my reasoning, of the verse presented. Sometimes my reasonioning is a hard sell. But with trins, they never address the point but rather go to one of their proof texts. It is always like that. I find that interesting that they all do the same. So to clarify, I don't wish to convert anyone. I like discussions, but I can never get the verse I present into the discussion


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Yes, as His bride.



Will we inherit the throne of Jesus or God's throne?


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## hobbs27 (Oct 17, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Will we inherit the throne of Jesus or God's throne?



No. I think we are heirs to the kingdom, and very little if any of the analogies to Christ are to be taken literal, but metaphorical.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 17, 2014)

Hebrews 4:12

King James Version
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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## Artfuldodger (Oct 17, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> No. I think we are heirs to the kingdom, and very little if any of the analogies to Christ are to be taken literal, but metaphorical.



What about Jesus sitting next to God and us ruling the Kingdom with Jesus?


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