# Atheist trap topics?



## Artfuldodger (Feb 19, 2012)

What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians besides slavery? How and why are they trapping us?
I read some from a list but any Christian with just an inkling of faith would not be persuaded or trapped by any on the list. Here is an example:
Song of Solomon 7:1-9

New King James Version (NKJV)
Expressions of Praise
The Beloved

7 How beautiful are your feet in sandals,
O prince’s daughter!
The curves of your thighs are like jewels,
The work of the hands of a skillful workman.
2 Your navel is a rounded goblet;
It lacks no blended beverage.
Your waist is a heap of wheat
Set about with lilies.
3 Your two breasts are like two fawns,
Twins of a gazelle.
4 Your neck is like an ivory tower,
Your eyes like the pools in Heshbon
By the gate of Bath Rabbim.
Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon
Which looks toward Damascus.
5 Your head crowns you like Mount Carmel,
And the hair of your head is like purple;
A king is held captive by your tresses.

6 How fair and how pleasant you are,
O love, with your delights!
7 This stature of yours is like a palm tree,
And your breasts like its clusters.
8 I said, “I will go up to the palm tree,
I will take hold of its branches.”
Let now your breasts be like clusters of the vine,
The fragrance of your breath like apples,
9 And the roof of your mouth like the best wine.

I will admit that is a strange verse but it didn't in no way make me question my faith.


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## JB0704 (Feb 19, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians besides slavery??



The entire OT.



Artfuldodger said:


> How?



Demanding a literal interpretation.



Artfuldodger said:


> why are they trapping us?



Becuase they don't believe a single word of it.


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## ambush80 (Feb 20, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> The entire OT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would add that there is no "trap".  Believers assert something (the God of Abraham) then use the Bible to prove it.  

The "why" is to point out that it's not good enough proof and therefore not a good source in and of itself for making recommendations about very important life decisions.


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## Asath (Feb 20, 2012)

‘Trap topic’ – in a world that has seen, endured, suffered under, sacrificed to, and then discarded too many ‘Gods’ to be enumerated here, from Zeus and Odin to Osiris and Baal, what exactly makes anyone think we ought to fall for that trick again?

‘Trap topic’ – in a world that is filled with ‘Holy Books,’ from over forty different versions of the Bible to several versions of the Koran to endless disputes and factional separations over the Torah to the Upanishads and, once again, on and on with too many to mention, what exactly makes anyone think that we must choose among them and pick one or the other rather than doing the rational thing and rejecting them all as evidence once again of the trickery we already said we wouldn’t fall for again in Trap #1?

 . . . I have a whole bunch more . . .  but it is early in the thread, and I don’t want to use up all the good ones before everyone else gets a chance to play  . . .


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Asath said:


> ‘Trap topic’ – in a world that has seen, endured, suffered under, sacrificed to, and then discarded too many ‘Gods’ to be enumerated here, from Zeus and Odin to Osiris and Baal, what exactly makes anyone think we ought to fall for that trick again?
> 
> ‘Trap topic’ – in a world that is filled with ‘Holy Books,’ from over forty different versions of the Bible to several versions of the Koran to endless disputes and factional separations over the Torah to the Upanishads and, once again, on and on with too many to mention, what exactly makes anyone think that we must choose among them and pick one or the other rather than doing the rational thing and rejecting them all as evidence once again of the trickery we already said we wouldn’t fall for again in Trap #1?
> 
> . . . I have a whole bunch more . . .  but it is early in the thread, and I don’t want to use up all the good ones before everyone else gets a chance to play  . . .


The Intellectual - The Intellectual will attempt to tear Christians down by providing intellectual arguments.  The Intellectual will try to corner you into being able to say nothing.  Intellectual Atheists who are on the prowl will use anything you say against yourself in an attempt to throw you in a corner so he can hammer you.


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## bullethead (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Intellectual - The Intellectual will attempt to tear Christians down by providing intellectual arguments.  The Intellectual will try to corner you into being able to say nothing.  Intellectual Atheists who are on the prowl will use anything you say against yourself in an attempt to throw you in a corner so he can hammer you.




To have any hope of understanding Christian extremism, we must begin by reviewing the definition for Christian fundamentalism. What do we mean by Christian fundamentalism, and what criteria identify a Christian fundamentalist? Drawing on multiple scholarly sources, we can utilize the following criteria:

    Biblical Inerrancy/Literalism (at least with regard to creation)
    Evangelism
    Premillenialism (expectation of second coming, rapture, etc.)
    Separatism/Sense of Persecution

The Christian extremist shares each of these attributes with the fundamentalist but meets some additional criteria not met by the fundamentalist. That is, fundamentalism subsumes extremism so that all extremists are fundamentalists but not all fundamentalists are extremists. The following are the additional criteria met by Christian extremists:

    Exclusivity (conviction that those who do not share their religious viewpoint are not "real" Christians)
    Other-Condemnation (intolerance and condemnation of the other)
    Anti-Intellectualism (especially with regard to science)
    Social Conservatism and Anti-Liberalism
    Theocratic Strivings (biblical law takes precedence over secular law)
    Opposition to Modernism


Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1845492


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## ambush80 (Feb 20, 2012)

bullethead said:


> To have any hope of understanding Christian extremism, we must begin by reviewing the definition for Christian fundamentalism. What do we mean by Christian fundamentalism, and what criteria identify a Christian fundamentalist? Drawing on multiple scholarly sources, we can utilize the following criteria:
> 
> Biblical Inerrancy/Literalism (at least with regard to creation)
> Evangelism
> ...




Secular Humanist Heresy!


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Intellectual - The Intellectual will attempt to tear Christians down by providing intellectual arguments.  The Intellectual will try to corner you into being able to say nothing.  Intellectual Atheists who are on the prowl will use anything you say against yourself in an attempt to throw you in a corner so he can hammer you.


Why don't we counter them with Intellectual Christians? I read post on this forum and i've never been persuaded to lose my faith in God or have I ever felt like they were trying to trap me. 
If any Christian feels that they might get trapped, why even venture into this forum?


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## StriperAddict (Feb 20, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Secular Humanist Heresy!


Ye took the words right outta.....!


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## StriperAddict (Feb 20, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Why don't we counter them with Intellectual Christians?


Because eventually God will show Himself by revelation, not by the 'power of the flesh'. 
But even intellectuals have come to a place of belief out of their search for truth.  Ivan Panin studied the word of God all his life and it turned the tide on his unbelief.  
God says His word will not return void, but will accomplish what He sets it out for.  It sure did me


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Because eventually God will show Himself by revelation, not by the 'power of the flesh'.
> But even intellectuals have come to a place of belief out of their search for truth.  Ivan Panin studied the word of God all his life and it turned the tide on his unbelief.
> God says His word will not return void, but will accomplish what He sets it out for.  It sure did me



Amen!

And I like your siggy....deer chasing you  Biggest buck ever too, I bet....  Biggest buck ever is only for those of us who believe in fairy tales, of course...hehehe.

Why do they pick on Christians? because anyone else might dot their eye, they are just playing it safe with us. I've never killed any living thing and get tired of being compared to the middle/dark ages/crusades where everyone else was perfect except for the Christians...oh yeah and hitler was a so  called Christian, talk about satans deception taking root in someones heart/brain...and we all know hitler wouldn't lie about or use God for any reason to benefit his own self...  Speaking of needing proof of something...common sense might work on that one, eh?


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

oh Striper, my cat needs prozac....


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Intellectual - The Intellectual will attempt to tear Christians down by providing intellectual arguments.  The Intellectual will try to corner you into being able to say nothing.  Intellectual Atheists who are on the prowl will use anything you say against yourself in an attempt to throw you in a corner so he can hammer you.



Man do I have a good thing to add to this, but I won't go there. But what you just said proves there is a supernatural with good and evil forces driving it.


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> If any Christian feels that they might get trapped, why even venture into this forum?


For me it's simple.Atheism declares that there is no god. Christianity teaches that there is a God.


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Why don't we counter them with Intellectual Christians?



Anyone that read's and studies there  Bible enough can be a intellectual Christian.That's the good thing about Christianity,you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it....the Bible is the Book of Life!!!Im not convinced of my beliefs based arguments.Im convinced of my position based on faith,something they can never share in.Atheist's beliefs are based on science or self.I wish more folks would take a stand for God,but if your intimated easily it's probably best to stay away.


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## bullethead (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Anyone that read's and studies there  Bible enough can be a intellectual Christian.



When do I get my member card?


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

bullethead said:


> When do I get my member card?



P.M. me your address and I'll drop you one in the mail!!!


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## JFS (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Atheist's beliefs are based on science or self.



Are you contending that is a bad thing? 

Seems better than superstition and wishful thinking.


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## JFS (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> The Intellectual will attempt to tear Christians down by providing intellectual arguments.



The scoundrels!  Where's a good inquisition whe you need one.


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

JFS said:


> Are you contending that is a bad thing?
> 
> Seems better than superstition and wishful thinking.



I'll take my faith over science any day when it concerns biblical matters.So where does  your faith lie?How far does or will your faith take you?


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## Asath (Feb 20, 2012)

‘Trap topic’ – The Intellectual.  Ask if it is an accident that intelligence and learning is nearly first on the list of the things religions condemn, when a simply view of human history confirms that every brutal dictator in history has Also first purged the intellectuals as a threat to the ‘belief’ that is about to be imposed on the country. 

‘Trap topic’ – wonder aloud how someone can ask, “What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians,”  and then almost immediately assert, “ . . . and i've never been persuaded to lose my faith in God or have I ever felt like they were trying to trap me.”  Point out the contradiction, and then watch the rationalization machine go into high gear . . . 

‘Trap topic’ – ask the peaceful, serene people who are totally comfortable in their thoughts and beliefs why they are so paranoid, “Why do they pick on Christians? because anyone else might dot their eye, they are just playing it safe with us.”  Then ask them, as a follow-up to their self-assertion of non-violence, just why they think violence “ . . . might dot their eye,” is a response that would be either appropriate or to be feared.  Ask, further, why such peaceful, tolerant folks are armed to the teeth, waving their military credentials, and building quite impressive trophy rooms to proudly display the living things created by their God that they kill for sport.  (Bonus Topic: Ask if they truly believe that those who think differently are unable to produce the same credentials  . . . )

‘Trap topic’ – ask if they own a dictionary, or have read more than one Book.  “Atheist's beliefs are based on science or self.”   Ask if they understand that an ‘atheist,’ by definition, is one who has no ‘beliefs.’  (See also: ‘paranoia,’ referenced above in Trap topic #5.)

This is fun . . . I’m starting to like this game quite a lot . . .


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## JFS (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> I'll take my faith over science any day when it concerns biblical matters.



And so think the Taliban too.


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Asath said:


> ‘Trap topic’ – The Intellectual.  Ask if it is an accident that intelligence and learning is nearly first on the list of the things religions condemn, when a simply view of human history confirms that every brutal dictator in history has Also first purged the intellectuals as a threat to the ‘belief’ that is about to be imposed on the country.
> 
> ‘Trap topic’ – wonder aloud how someone can ask, “What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians,”  and then almost immediately assert, “ . . . and i've never been persuaded to lose my faith in God or have I ever felt like they were trying to trap me.”  Point out the contradiction, and then watch the rationalization machine go into high gear . . .
> 
> ...



WOW!!!Your on mighty early......Normally your post are between 11:00 pm to roughly 3 or 4 in the morning...You on vacation ?Good job!!!


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## JB0704 (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> WOW!!!Your on mighty early......Normally your post are between 11:00 pm to roughly 3 or 4 in the morning...You on vacation ?Good job!!!



Imagine how many directions these threads would go if he were on between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. when the rest of us are usually trolling around.....


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## Asath (Feb 20, 2012)

President's Day.  Abraham Lincoln accidentally freed me for a whole day so I can annoy folks while some of them are still awake . . .


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Imagine how many directions these threads would go if he were on between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. when the rest of us are usually trolling around.....



Dont know I'd be working at those times and any time after 11 I'll be sleeping???


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## fish hawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Asath said:


> President's Day.  Abraham Lincoln accidentally freed me for a whole day so I can annoy folks while some of them are still awake . . .



Party time!!!


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Imagine how many directions these threads would go if he were on between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. when the rest of us are usually trolling around.....



He talks way too deep and way too over my head for me to read his posts without spinning and twirling and getting all dizzy and falling out.....my adhd kicks in. And I'm not saying that in a bad way, I like the way he writes, I'm just not good at following certain kinds of posts. Like Israel, I have to read his posts 10 times to comprehend what he's saying and I also like the way he writes.

I've never been a good reader because of add. I've always had to learn by doing and seeing instead of reading. I don't mind if people say things over and over either, really, it usually takes that many times for me to get it.


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Party time!!!




Yeehaw!!


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## StriperAddict (Feb 21, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Like Israel, I have to read his posts 10 times to comprehend what he's saying and I also like the way he writes.


Same here, I wish I could write what's on my heart the way he, you and many others do.  I usually take 5 paragraphs to say what some of ya'll can put down in one! 



mtnwoman said:


> oh Striper, my cat needs prozac....


_NEEDS??_ Uh, ok...I'll see what I can find !  

Katnip anyone??


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## stringmusic (Feb 21, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Anyone that read's and studies there  Bible enough can be a intellectual Christian.That's the good thing about Christianity,you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it....the Bible is the Book of Life!!!Im not convinced of my beliefs based arguments.Im convinced of my position based on faith*,something they can never share in*.Atheist's beliefs are based on science or self.I wish more folks would take a stand for God,but if your intimated easily it's probably best to stay away.



Atheists have great faith, just not in the same thing you or I have faith in.

They have faith that we got to this exact point in time because a non-intelligent universe that somehow transformed inanimate matter into human beings, yet somehow, most would agree we have inherent rights, and morals, and we have purpose. Great faith indeed.


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## vowell462 (Feb 21, 2012)

JFS said:


> The scoundrels!  Where's a good inquisition whe you need one.



I just lost my coffee on this one!


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## JFS (Feb 21, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Atheists have great faith, just not in the same thing you or I have faith in.
> 
> They have faith that we got to this exact point in time because a non-intelligent universe that somehow transformed inanimate matter into human beings, yet somehow, most would agree we have inherent rights, and morals, and we have purpose. Great faith indeed.



I don't think that is the crux of the difference.  To me the big difference is the ability to accept purported revelation as a source of truth and the veracity of supernatural tales in scripture.    When you read the discussions in AAA there is some good give and take between different POVs and when left to solely reason and secular sources there is often more agreement than you might expect given peoples' starting points.  The differences are often a matter of the degree of certainty one can reach from the data and not necessarily wholsale rejection of alternate views.  It's when you introduce the biblical element that things blow up.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 21, 2012)

‘Trap topic’ – wonder aloud how someone can ask, “What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians,” and then almost immediately assert, “ . . . and i've never been persuaded to lose my faith in God or have I ever felt like they were trying to trap me.” Point out the contradiction, and then watch the rationalization machine go into high gear . .
Please point out the contradiction. My point is and i'll use the homophobia analogy . I'm not Atheistaphobic. From the stories i've read in the Bible, Satan needs no help from people, usually. He can use people, example Eve. But for the most part he has the ability to talk directly to Christians, he doesn't need an atheist middle man. Eve wasn't an atheist so even if he wants to use a third party he can use a Christian or a snake. Personally my encounters with Satan have been directly from the entity himself. The story of Jesus in the wilderness, Satan & Jesus, there was no atheist involved.


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

Trap topics.......These are certain topics atheist love to discuss with believers.They are normally always the same topics with rehearsed outcomes and canned responses.No matter what an Anti-Christian Atheist says, he cannot fight faith, but he can fight and deface everything else.Visit an atheist website and get the info for yourself AFTER THAT IT MIGHT NOT SEEM SO FUNNY!!!Or better yet visit an atheist chat forum,then your eyes will really be opened!!!


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> ‘Trap topic’ – wonder aloud how someone can ask, “What are some of the trap topics or verses atheist use to trap Christians,” and then almost immediately assert, “ . . . and i've never been persuaded to lose my faith in God or have I ever felt like they were trying to trap me.” Point out the contradiction, and then watch the rationalization machine go into high gear . .
> Please point out the contradiction. My point is and i'll use the homophobia analogy . I'm not Atheistaphobic. From the stories i've read in the Bible, Satan needs no help from people, usually. He can use people, example Eve. But for the most part he has the ability to talk directly to Christians, he doesn't need an atheist middle man. Eve wasn't an atheist so even if he wants to use a third party he can use a Christian or a snake. Personally my encounters with Satan have been directly from the entity himself. The story of Jesus in the wilderness, Satan & Jesus, there was no atheist involved.



Dont let these guys fool you....They my seem nice on the outside but they have to follow forum rules here or get booted.Take a gander at this atheist chat forum and draw your own conclusions.
http://www.atheistforums.com/viewforum.php?f=1


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## bullethead (Feb 22, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Dont let these guys fool you....They my seem nice on the outside but they have to follow forum rules here or get booted.Take a gander at this atheist chat forum and draw your own conclusions.
> http://www.atheistforums.com/viewforum.php?f=1



Each and every one of those darned atheists are actually the same person inside and out. Nothing like a good blanket statement. It is a wonder wireless internet can reach you so high up on that pedestal.


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## JB0704 (Feb 22, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Dont let these guys fool you....They my seem nice on the outside but they have to follow forum rules here or get booted.



I have seen more Christian posts and threads be removed than atheist's posts and threads on this forum.

We all might be crazy serial killers as far as the rest of us know, but if I had to guess I would say these guys are alright.


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## ambush80 (Feb 22, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I have seen more Christian posts and threads be removed than atheist's posts and threads on this forum.
> 
> We all might be crazy serial killers as far as the rest of us know, but if I had to guess I would say these guys are alright.



If I were to view your statement from a Fundamentalist's perspective I would say that Satan has got you right where he wants you.  

It's a corrupt position to operate from.


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## bullethead (Feb 22, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> If I were to view your statement from a Fundamentalist's perspective I would say that Satan has got you right where he wants you.
> 
> It's a corrupt position to operate from.



Can I get an AMEN!


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## stringmusic (Feb 22, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Can I get an AMEN!



No.

























You asked.


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## stringmusic (Feb 22, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> If I were to view your statement from a Fundamentalist's perspective I would say that Satan has got you right where he wants you.
> 
> It's a corrupt position to operate from.



Is part of Christian fundamentalism that you cannot converse with people of other faiths or of people with no faith at all in God? Because if not, that is not a very wise statement you just made.


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

bullethead said:


> It is a wonder wireless internet can reach you so high up on that pedestal.



I'll throw you a rope!!!


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I have seen more Christian posts and threads be removed than atheist's posts and threads on this forum.



Yea probably because they badger them to death about the post that irritate them!!!


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## ambush80 (Feb 22, 2012)

stringmusic said:


> Is part of Christian fundamentalism that you cannot converse with people of other faiths or of people with no faith at all in God? Because if not, that is not a very wise statement you just made.



Read anything that Fishhawk posts and you tell me.

It's not really a discussion if someone asks "How can a donkey talk?" and someone answers "Because God made him!"


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Read anything that Fishhawk posts and you tell me.



Im not hear to converse!!!


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## bullethead (Feb 22, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Im not hear to converse!!!



At least your honest!


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 22, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> For me it's simple.Atheism declares that there is no god. Christianity teaches that there is a God.


Does this mean you are here to witness? When it comes down to spreading the "Good News" their aren't too many groups left besides the Pagans & Atheist. Would you consider an Atheist to be lower than a Pagan? I'm using your definition of a Pagan meaning anyone who doesn't believe in our God. My answer is "Jesus it the only way to get to Heaven. You either believe in Jesus or you don't. I would not consider an Atheist to be more evil or "of the devil" than I would a Pagan or any other non-believer.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 22, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Read anything that Fishhawk posts and you tell me.
> 
> It's not really a discussion if someone asks "How can a donkey talk?" and someone answers "Because God made him!"



Just cause you don't believe in talking donkeys doesn't mean it is not a conversation.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 22, 2012)

Asath said:


> ‘Trap topic’ – The Intellectual.  Ask if it is an accident that intelligence and learning is nearly first on the list of the things religions condemn, when a simply view of human history confirms that every brutal dictator in history has Also first purged the intellectuals as a threat to the ‘belief’ that is about to be imposed on the country.



Correction, history teaches that the first act of a dictator is to disarm those he means to opress.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 22, 2012)

So if I, being a Christian, get caught in a "trap topic", what happens? Do I have to gnaw my leg off in order to escape? Or does a talking donkey have to "witness" to the trapper?


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Does this mean you are here to witness? When it comes down to spreading the "Good News" their aren't too many groups left besides the Pagans & Atheist. Would you consider an Atheist to be lower than a Pagan? I'm using your definition of a Pagan meaning anyone who doesn't believe in our God. My answer is "Jesus it the only way to get to Heaven. You either believe in Jesus or you don't. I would not consider an Atheist to be more evil or "of the devil" than I would a Pagan or any other non-believer.



I'm not hear to witness.....That road has been traveled many times.When it comes down to witnessing  to someone I dont think they have to belong to any certain group or fall into a category.There's a heap of folks out there like me who weren't raised in any kind of church or taught anything about God,but they do have a hunger to know God,they just need a spark to light the fire and if anyone ask I'll tell them,but I'm not the one marching up and down Main St. holding the sign that says repent or die.I didn't even step foot in a church unless it was for a funeral or wedding until my late 30's and i'm 45 now....I also wouldn't consider an atheist to be more evil than a non believer or anyone else ,even a Christian because evil lies within ones own heart and it's not up to me to judge a mans heart....but i do believe there's an agenda.....I've already been called a fundamentalist because I'm willing to stand up for my God.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 22, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> I'm not hear to witness.....That road has been traveled many times.When it comes down to witnessing  to someone I dont think they have to belong to any certain group or fall into a category.There's a heap of folks out there like me who weren't raised in any kind of church or taught anything about God,but they do have a hunger to know God,they just need a spark to light the fire and if anyone ask I'll tell them,but I'm not the one marching up and down Main St. holding the sign that says repent or die.I didn't even step foot in a church unless it was for a funeral or wedding until my late 30's and i'm 45 now....I also wouldn't consider an atheist to be more evil than a non believer or anyone else ,even a Christian because evil lies within ones own heart and it's not up to me to judge a mans heart....but i do believe there's an agenda.....I've already been called a fundamentalist because I'm willing to stand up for my God.


I'm not a fundamentalist and don't agree with you on a lot of topics. I thought your post above was "on the money" though. This forum includes Apologetics and is also a good place to increase your faith in God. I look at it as always being around a yes man. In this forum it's not all in your favor.


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## fish hawk (Feb 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> . This forum includes Apologetics and is also a good place to increase your faith in God. I look at it as always being around a yes man. In this forum it's not all in your favor.



Sometimes it's easy to forget about the other two A's,point well taken and thanks for the reminder!!!


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## ambush80 (Feb 23, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> Just cause you don't believe in talking donkeys doesn't mean it is not a conversation.



Let's have an in depth conversation then, shall we?  You're a scientist, right, Ted?  How do you imagine God would make a donkey talk?  Would he temporarily change the shape of its throat?  Maybe give it a temporary larynx? How about its lips?  How do you think he would reshape the donkey's lips in such a way that it could speak.  It was speaking to Baal so would it have spoken in Hebrew or Greek?  Do you think its mouth even moved when it talked?
This is a perfect opportunity to apply some apologetics.


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## ted_BSR (Feb 23, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Let's have an in depth conversation then, shall we?  You're a scientist, right, Ted?  How do you imagine God would make a donkey talk?  Would he temporarily change the shape of its throat?  Maybe give it a temporary larynx? How about its lips?  How do you think he would reshape the donkey's lips in such a way that it could speak.  It was speaking to Baal so would it have spoken in Hebrew or Greek?  Do you think its mouth even moved when it talked?
> This is a perfect opportunity to apply some apologetics.



No apologetics necessary. I am a scientist, by trade and education, and I know that science cannot explain everything. Your in depth conversation is a punt. There is no scientific explanation for God or His actions. That is why IT is so beautiful! Amazing Grace!!!

You can’t win an argument with a crazy man Ambush!


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## ambush80 (Feb 23, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> No apologetics necessary. I am a scientist, by trade and education, and I know that science cannot explain everything. Your in depth conversation is a punt. There is no scientific explanation for God or His actions. That is why IT is so beautiful! Amazing Grace!!!
> 
> You can’t win an argument with a crazy man Ambush!



Do you like science fiction?   Even if you don't I'm sure you are familiar with it in some form.  When they propose a technology in a science fiction, they often use concepts, be they actual or theoretical, to construct a scenario in which such technology might work.  Why should explaining how a talking donkey be any different?  Level with me, man to man, what is your reluctance to theorize on how a donkey might talk?  Is it against Biblical doctrine to speculate about such things and if so why?


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## fish hawk (Feb 23, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> theorize on how a donkey might talk?



Dang dude,God made him!!!


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## ted_BSR (Feb 23, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Do you like science fiction?   Even if you don't I'm sure you are familiar with it in some form.  When they propose a technology in a science fiction, they often use concepts, be they actual or theoretical, to construct a scenario in which such technology might work.  Why should explaining how a talking donkey be any different?  Level with me, man to man, what is your reluctance to theorize on how a donkey might talk?  Is it against Biblical doctrine to speculate about such things and if so why?



I am not reluctant; I just see it as fruitless. It is not against biblical doctrine to theorize how it could happen. Our theories are meaningless because they are based on science, which cannot answer all things. I just don't thing it is worth my time to scientifically theorize about how something so unscientific could come to pass.

For science fictions sake, there was an episode of Star Trek where a silicon based life form was encountered. I believe Bones said "darn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a stone mason!" So, darn it Ambush, I am a man, not a soothsayer.


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## ambush80 (Feb 24, 2012)

ted_BSR said:


> I am not reluctant; I just see it as fruitless. It is not against biblical doctrine to theorize how it could happen. Our theories are meaningless because they are based on science, which cannot answer all things. I just don't thing it is worth my time to scientifically theorize about how something so unscientific could come to pass.
> 
> For science fictions sake, there was an episode of Star Trek where a silicon based life form was encountered. I believe Bones said "darn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a stone mason!" So, darn it Ambush, I am a man, not a soothsayer.



Ok so lets throw out science and just use our own personal experience.  What's the difference between a pastor and a soothsayer?


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## fish hawk (Feb 24, 2012)

It's kinda like that sayin Auburn fans have....All in.......If God can create a whole universe and everything in it,it doesn't seem so strange or shock me that he can make an animal talk...your either all in or all out,no half steppin when it comes to God,that's where faith comes in!!!


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## fish hawk (Feb 24, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Ok so lets throw out science and just use our own personal experience.  What's the difference between a pastor and a soothsayer?



Thats a very poor comparison....A preacher  is a teacher and if he's a good one he teaches from the bible...A soothsayer is nothing more than a fortune teller who predicts your or the future.....Ive had fortune tellers at the fair when i was young tell me  I was gonna live a long and prosperous life,I've never had my preacher tell me that,he always said be prepared because no man knows the time or hour that Jesus will come back and that every mans days are numbered!!!Even your days are numbered ambush,thats something all the science in the world cant help you with.


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 24, 2012)

Our days being numbered just means we're not going to live forever. God is no respector of persons.


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## ambush80 (Feb 24, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> It's kinda like that sayin Auburn fans have....All in.......If God can create a whole universe and everything in it,it doesn't seem so strange or shock me that he can make an animal talk...your either all in or all out,no half steppin when it comes to God,that's where faith comes in!!!



Why the strong reluctance to discuss HOW He might have accomplished it?



fish hawk said:


> Thats a very poor comparison....A preacher  is a teacher and if he's a good one he teaches from the bible...A soothsayer is nothing more than a fortune teller who predicts your or the future.....Ive had fortune tellers at the fair when i was young tell me  I was gonna live a long and prosperous life,I've never had my preacher tell me that,he always said be prepared because no man knows the time or hour that Jesus will come back and that every mans days are numbered!!!Even your days are numbered ambush,thats something all the science in the world cant help you with.



What's the difference between a soothsayer and Jack VanImpe?

What makes you think that I don't know that my days are numbered? I might fall dead on my keyboard before I finish typing th....................................................................................................................


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## ted_BSR (Feb 24, 2012)

ambush80 said:


> Why the strong reluctance to discuss HOW He might have accomplished it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good one Ambush. Very Mel Brooksish.


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## Asath (Feb 25, 2012)

“Correction, history teaches that the first act of a dictator is to disarm those he means to opress.”

So which part did I get wrong?  You ‘peaceful’ types are the first into the fray with the ‘pen is mightier than the sword’ observation, so if one wishes to ‘disarm’ one’s opposition, simply taking away their weapons is nothing more than a stop-gap measure – taking away their thoughts is much more effective . . .  since it has always been, after all, those pesky ‘intellectuals’ who keep thinking up the better weapons . . . 

“So if I, being a Christian, get caught in a "trap topic", what happens?”

Just what HAS happened . . . one of your fellow Christians came down here to try to make the contention that unfair non-believers try to ‘trap’ poor innocent Christians, and he ended up trapping you . . . 

You’ll notice that none of us ‘nonbelievers’ have brought up a single ‘topic’ other than your own . . . 

Darn.


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## fish hawk (Feb 25, 2012)

Again,condensed version!!!!This poor old dumb hick redneck christian boy can barley keep up....you know down hear they didnt teach us to read!!!


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## Asath (Feb 26, 2012)

Ridicule is a very odd substitute for thought and education, but if it still makes one feel like the king of the playground then I guess it’s too late to ask more.

 But if one still thinks that pushing a kid down makes the only point that needs to be true, one is forced to ask, now that our playground days are over, why one finds oneself working for those same kids all these years later . . . Still think might makes right when they’re now signing the paychecks?


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## fish hawk (Feb 27, 2012)

Asath said:


> Ridicule is a very odd substitute for thought and education, but if it still makes one feel like the king of the playground then I guess it’s too late to ask more.
> 
> But if one still thinks that pushing a kid down makes the only point that needs to be true, one is forced to ask, now that our playground days are over, why one finds oneself working for those same kids all these years later . . . Still think might makes right when they’re now signing the paychecks?


Ha if your talking about me ....I have owned and operated my own business for the last 25 years....soooo i have signed a few paychecks myself.


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## Four (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't know if you could call these "trap topics" but they're scripture that i will sometimes bring up in order to provoke thought in a judao-christian theist.

1 Corinthians 11:14 (Men should not have long hair)
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (Women should remain silent in church)
Deuteronomy 13:6-16 (Death penalty for Apostasy)
Deuteronomy 20:10-14 (Attack city, kill all men, keep women, children as spoils of war)
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (Death penalty for a rebellious son)
Deuteronomy 22:19-25 (Kill non-virgin/kill adulterers/rapists)
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (Pay virgin’s parents for raping her)
Ecclesiastes 1:18 (Knowledge is bad)
Exodus 21:1-7 (Rules for buying slaves)
Exodus 35:2 (Death for working on the Sabbath)
Ezekiel 9:5-6 (Murder women/children)
Ezekiel 23:19-20 (A - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH - who had sex with men hung like donkeys)
Galatians 5:2-4 (If you are circumcised, Christ has nothing for you)
Genesis 1:3,4,5,11,12,16 (God creates light, night and day, plants grow, before creating sun)
Genesis 3:16 (Man shall rule over woman)
Jeremiah 19:9 (Cannibalism)
John 3:18 (He who believes in Jesus is saved, he that doesn’t is condemned)
John 5:46-47 (Jesus references Old Testament)
1 Kings 7:23 (Pi equals 3)
Leviticus 3:1-17 (Procedure for animal sacrifice)
Leviticus 19:19 (No mixed fabrics in clothing)
Leviticus 19:27 (Don’t trim hair or beard)
Leviticus 19:28 (No tattoos)
Leviticus 20:9 (Death for cursing father or mother)
Leviticus 20:10 (Death for adultery)
Leviticus 20:13 (Death for gay men)
Leviticus 20:15 (Death for bestiality)
Leviticus 20:18 (No sex with a woman on her period)
Leviticus 21:17-23 (Ugly people, lame, dwarfs, not welcome on altar)
Leviticus 25:45 (Strangers can be bought as slaves)
Luke 12:33 (Sell your possessions, and give to the poor)
Luke 14:26 (You must hate your family and yourself to follow Jesus)
Mark 10:11-12 (Leaving your spouse for another is adultery)
Mark 10:25-25 (Next to impossible for rich to get into heaven)
Mark 16:15-16 (Those who hear the gospel and don’t believe go to - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -)
Mark 20:21-22 (Sell your possessions and give to the poor)
Matthew 5:17-19 (Jesus says he has come to enforce the laws of the Old Testament)
Matthew 6:5-6 (Pray in secret)
Matthew 6:18 (Fast for Lent in secret)
Matthew 9:12 (The healthy don’t need a doctor, the sick do)
Matthew 10:34-37 (Jesus comes with sword, turns families against each other, those that love family more than him are not worthy)
Matthew 12:30 (If you’re not with Jesus, you’re against him)
Matthew 15:4 (Death for not honouring your father and mother)
Matthew 22:29 (Jesus references Old Testament)
Matthew 24:37 (Jesus references Old Testament)
Numbers 14:18 (Following generations blamed for the sins of previous ones)
Psalms 137:9 (Violence against children)
Revelation 6:13 (The stars fell to earth like figs)
Revelation 21:8 (Unbelievers, among others, go to - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -)
1 Timothy 2:11-12 (Women subordinate and must remain silent)
1 Timothy 5:8 (If you don’t provide for your family, you are an infidel)
Zechariah 14:2 (Women ravished when city is taken in battle)


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## ted_BSR (Feb 27, 2012)

Asath said:


> “Correction, history teaches that the first act of a dictator is to disarm those he means to opress.”
> 
> So which part did I get wrong?  1. You ‘peaceful’ types are the first into the fray with the ‘pen is mightier than the sword’ observation,   so if one wishes to ‘disarm’ one’s opposition, simply taking away their weapons is nothing more than a stop-gap measure –  2. taking away their thoughts is much more effective . . .  since it has always been, after all, those pesky ‘intellectuals’ who keep thinking up the better weapons . . .
> 
> ...



1. You don't know squat about me.

2. This is incorrect. India is still felling the repercussions of the British disarmament. Even Gandhi spoke out against it.

3. Quit whining. When someone agrees with me, it is no different than when someone agrees with you.

4. Write a 3 paragraph diatribe about this. You'll just sound foolish.


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## Asath (Feb 28, 2012)

Can someone sing, “Sequential Non-sequitur?”   In four part harmony?


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## fish hawk (Feb 29, 2012)

Asath said:


> Can someone sing, “Sequential Non-sequitur?”   In four part harmony?



Did you need a job???I can put you to work this summer!!!


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## ted_BSR (Feb 29, 2012)

Asath said:


> Can someone sing, “Sequential Non-sequitur?”   In four part harmony?



Asath wrote a very long post, about his O-PIN-ION, he then made some burned up toast and ate it with an ON-ION... everybody now!!!!!


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