# What a shame



## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2020)




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## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2020)

This is why we  (Public hunters) can't find ducks to hunt in Georgia


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## Gaswamp (Jan 28, 2020)

pathetic


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## Cmp1 (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm not a duck hunter, but wow,,,,


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 28, 2020)

Federal crime. Nail their butts to the wall...


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## WaterwackerSiah (Jan 28, 2020)

Wow those two guys got 19 ducks each! Good shooting.


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## across the river (Jan 28, 2020)

DRBugman85 said:


> This is why we  (Public hunters) can't find ducks to hunt in Georgia


No, public hunters in large part can’t find ducks because the second they land on a public body of water someone is running them up with there Excel with the non muffled mud buddy strapped on the back.   There have been corn ponds(legal and illegal) around the same public bodies of water for years.  The difference today is the public hunters, not the corn.   I’m not condoning baiting, but that isn’t what causes people’s lack of success on public water.


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## blood on the ground (Jan 28, 2020)

Sure hope they didn't just dispose of all those ducks. Hope they were given to folks that will eat them.


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## DRBugman85 (Jan 28, 2020)

across the river said:


> No, public hunters in large part can’t find ducks because the second they land on a public body of water someone is running them up with there Excel with the non muffled mud buddy strapped on the back.   There have been corn ponds(legal and illegal) around the same public bodies of water for years.  The difference today is the public hunters, not the corn.   I’m not condoning baiting, but that isn’t what causes people’s lack of success on public water.


I remember when Little St Simons was baited and hunted and till the bait was gone Retts,Champeny and Butler Island was VOID of ducks except for the day they hunted the ponds and THEY got busted by the Feds and local game Wardens.The ducks stayed on the ponds till the CORN was gone then and only then did we start to see ducks on the Altamaha WMA  start showing up. Mud boats don't help and the HORDES of DUCK COMMANDER WANT TO BE'S are worse running 7 days a week scouting and running every duck out from morning till dark.. I've seen the hunting on the Altamaha WMA decline do to poor management year after year for some time,in part to the Internet and proud ruddy duck shooting duck commander want to be's  (the hordes ) ruin what was once a DUCK MECCA. Not mudboats/Mud motors.


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## rnelson5 (Jan 28, 2020)

across the river said:


> No, public hunters in large part can’t find ducks because the second they land on a public body of water someone is running them up with there Excel with the non muffled mud buddy strapped on the back.   There have been corn ponds(legal and illegal) around the same public bodies of water for years.  The difference today is the public hunters, not the corn.   I’m not condoning baiting, but that isn’t what causes people’s lack of success on public water.


 
I agree this has a lot to do with it.


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## across the river (Jan 28, 2020)

DRBugman85 said:


> I remember when Little St Simons was baited and hunted and till the bait was gone Retts,Champeny and Butler Island was VOID of ducks except for the day they hunted the ponds and THEY got busted by the Feds and local game Wardens.The ducks stayed on the ponds till the CORN was gone then and only then did we start to see ducks on the Altamaha WMA  start showing up. Mud boats don't help and the HORDES of DUCK COMMANDER WANT TO BE'S are worse running 7 days a week scouting and running every duck out from morning till dark.. I've seen the hunting on the Altamaha WMA decline do to poor management year after year for some time,in part to the Internet and proud ruddy duck shooting duck commander want to be's  (the hordes ) ruin what was once a DUCK MECCA. Not mudboats/Mud motors.



I hunted Rhetts a bunch in college, so it is good to know that the times I wasn't very successful it was because someone had a pond baited with corn nearby.  I guess that means that there were never any baited ponds anywhere around the days we really killed them.


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## ucfireman (Jan 28, 2020)

WaterwackerSiah said:


> Wow those two guys got 19 ducks each! Good shooting.


Huh? they said 7 were charged. 
At least they got caught.


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## mizzippi jb (Jan 28, 2020)

Good hunt. Congrats..... Great table fare too


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## mizzippi jb (Jan 28, 2020)

DRBugman85 said:


> I remember when Little St Simons was baited and hunted and till the bait was gone Retts,Champeny and Butler Island was VOID of ducks except for the day they hunted the ponds and THEY got busted by the Feds and local game Wardens.The ducks stayed on the ponds till the CORN was gone then and only then did we start to see ducks on the Altamaha WMA  start showing up. Mud boats don't help and the HORDES of DUCK COMMANDER WANT TO BE'S are worse running 7 days a week scouting and running every duck out from morning till dark.. I've seen the hunting on the Altamaha WMA decline do to poor management year after year for some time,in part to the Internet and proud ruddy duck shooting duck commander want to be's  (the hordes ) ruin what was once a DUCK MECCA. Not mudboats/Mud motors.


Been posting other folks pics lately?


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## buckpasser (Jan 28, 2020)

ucfireman said:


> Huh? they said 7 were charged.
> At least they got caught.



It was a joke. The two green jeans look like they’re proud of their dead ducks on the tailgate.


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## dc1 (Jan 29, 2020)

OK I will say it cause no one else will.  7 hunters can take 6 ducks a piece.  That is 42 ducks.  They only had 38.  Yes it appears they were baiting.  So it is okay to shoot deer over bait?  It is okay to manipulate a dove field?  It is okay to flood a corn field? Moral: flood don't throw.  To me it is this simple: ALL baiting should be illegal or baiting should be legal and the limits strictly enforced.  $500 per bird over the limit and loose hunting privileges for 5 years.  WOULD THAT DETER YOU?  How many of us can afford to purchase tractors, planters, seed, fertilizer, and buy the land?  We know who benefits from the law that allows flooding corn fields, the plantation owners, the wealthy.  They have the resources and the connections.  So the rest of us, working class rednecks can pay these ridiculous lease prices and hope we have a good hunt maybe once or twice a season.  I choose not to bait, but at my age the number of birds taken is not the reason I go.  The whistling wings, the site of a wood duck dancing thru the trees, the cupped wings and feet down of a ring neck or bluebill.  And oh yea, these folks did not impact anybody's hunting season but their own.  Last couple of years nesting pairs are down and the projected migration numbers are down.


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 29, 2020)

I promis you there is a huge difference between planting corn and dumping corn. The birds act completely different.


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## dc1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Duckbuster82 said:


> I promis you there is a huge difference between planting corn and dumping corn. The birds act completely different.


Yep they have to stretch up to get to the ear of corn where they have to stretch down to get to the bottom.  But the end result is you are feeding the ducks corn.  Planting to lure birds is no different than throwing corn.


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## flatsmaster (Jan 30, 2020)

I imagine that’s close to the rationale they used to justify breaking the law


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 30, 2020)

dc1 said:


> Yep they have to stretch up to get to the ear of corn where they have to stretch down to get to the bottom.  But the end result is you are feeding the ducks corn.  Planting to lure birds is no different than throwing corn.



You would think, yet I bet these guys that got caught have shot more birds over bait than some corn ponds this year.


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## dc1 (Jan 30, 2020)

flatsmaster said:


> I imagine that’s close to the rationale they used to justify breaking the law


and that begs an answer, why is it legal to shoot deer over bait? Why is it legal to put water on corn, corn is not an aquatic plant.  I still say make all baiting illegal for all huntable species of wildlife, like it use to be.  this includes flooding corn fields.


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 30, 2020)

dc1 said:


> and that begs an answer, why is it legal to shoot deer over bait? Why is it legal to put water on corn, corn is not an aquatic plant.  I still say make all baiting illegal for all huntable species of wildlife, like it use to be.  this includes flooding corn fields.



So is a food plot baiting? Would moist soil ponds be baiting? What about filling a pond with grass would that be baiting?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 30, 2020)

Deer can eat at night. And they do. 
Ducks are a daytime critter. 
The flooded pond takes work and money. That’s how it got legal. 
Just pointing out some common sence. 
Y’all fire a way at me now. ?


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 30, 2020)

kmckinnie said:


> Deer can eat at night. And they do.
> Ducks are a daytime critter.
> The flooded pond takes work and money. That’s how it got legal.
> Just pointing out some common sence.
> Y’all fire a way at me now. ?



And a planted pond creates habitat that we are losing at a rapid pace.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 30, 2020)

Duckbuster82 said:


> And a planted pond creates habitat that we are losing at a rapid pace.


I’ll buy that.


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## flatsmaster (Jan 30, 2020)

No baiting is a reasonable debate if your against it ...but to say a bag of corn for $6 at Academy that can be poured out on private or public land is a far cry from prepping and turning the earth to plant ... and whomever does prep and plant and flood at the proper time at this point is doing it legally ... unfortunately with the way of the world liberals love to lump all outdoorsman into the category of that picture ... unlawful gun toting non conservationist ... complete opposite of what most are


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## killerv (Jan 30, 2020)

So these guys just happened by a baited pond on patrol while it was being hunted, somehow knew it was baited from the road and proceeded to let them shoot all these birds. Something tells me they knew about it, watched, and they could have stopped it after the first duck was shot. Talk about conservation...


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## kingfish (Jan 30, 2020)

Plus if those are woodies, you can only kill 3 per person so they re a mile over the limit


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## flatsmaster (Jan 30, 2020)

killerv said:


> So these guys just happened by a baited pond on patrol while it was being hunted, somehow knew it was baited from the road and proceeded to let them shoot all these birds. Something tells me they knew about it, watched, and they could have stopped it after the first duck was shot. Talk about conservation...


This statement assumes a lot followed up with the officers used bad judgement with almost certainty ... I’m glad they caught them and good luck catching anyone else that can’t follow the law


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## Core Lokt (Jan 30, 2020)

killerv said:


> So these guys just happened by a baited pond on patrol while it was being hunted, somehow knew it was baited from the road and proceeded to let them shoot all these birds. Something tells me they knew about it, watched, and they could have stopped it after the first duck was shot. Talk about conservation...




Tony Cox (Not pictured) will  go to his grave looking for baiters. As soon as duck season comes in he quits patrolling deer hunters and it's strictly all about the ducks on public and private.  I'd be willing to bet he learned of this spot from patrolling long before the day they caught them.


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## kevbo3333 (Jan 30, 2020)

you can bring water to corn but you can’t bring corn to water!


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## WaterwackerSiah (Jan 30, 2020)

I don't really understand people getting all up and arms about people putting out corn and acting all "holier than though". Like stated in this thread there is a double standard and inconsistencies when it comes to baiting (deers and ducks) and growing food vs putting it out.

I feel there is a lot of pride gained from DNR for catching "outlaws" who are baiting, but to me its just a group of guys who love hunting and probably have not had much success, and  just trying to have a good hunt. Yeah its against the rules, but I am not going to sit here and bash them and their character for breaking the rules. None of us is above anyone else.  

For me personally, I don't think it would be as satisfying to hunt birds coming in where I had baited. 
1. Because I am breaking the law
2. because its not "natural". Might as well be hunting pen raised mallards. 

There is nothing like a wild migratory bird coming into a "natural" swamp. But to each their own, I am not going to bash these guys who had a great ring neck hunt they will remember for a lifetime. 

Like Killerv said The DNR agent knew it was baited and proceeded to let them kill as many birds as possible to catch them in the act, if it was truly about "conservation" and saving the ring neck population they would have stopped them in the act. Not let them blast away. But this way they get a nice picture of all the birds lined up.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 30, 2020)

Maybe they where investigating a lot of shooting tip from a fellow duck hunter or something like that. 
A DNR officer asked my buddy if he heard a lot of shooting in a area this year. It was before the season to I believe. 
And he did hear shooting also. 

I’ll tell Quinn he takes a nice pic. ?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 30, 2020)

When does this ducky ? thing go out.


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## across the river (Jan 30, 2020)

dc1 said:


> and that begs an answer, why is it legal to shoot deer over bait? Why is it legal to put water on corn, corn is not an aquatic plant.  I still say make all baiting illegal for all huntable species of wildlife, like it use to be.  this includes flooding corn fields.


So if a corn field along the Mississippifloods, could you hunt it?  What about oaks trees you flooded intentionally would that be baiting?  If you planted banana water lily in a pond and hunted that,  would that be baiting?  The throwing out corn is the same as planting and flooding is dumb, because there is no rationale to it.   Ducks go somewhere to eat something that has typically grown from the ground or in the water.   Some is natural, some is agricultural, some was planted for the ducks.  In all cases, if it doesn’t grow in water, water has to be put where it is grown by man or Mother Nature.  That creates habitat for ducks and other creatures.  Toss 50lbs of corn in the shallow end of your farm pond doesn’t do anything but artificially congregate birds closely in a place they wouldn’t be otherwise.  If you think it is the same YouTube them banding ducks with a cannon net.   They pour a concentrated amount of corn in a row and shoot the cannon net over them when the congregate closely together in one spot.  That doesn’t happen in a flooded standing corn pond, which is why there is a huge difference.


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## kevbo3333 (Jan 30, 2020)

kmckinnie said:


> When does this ducky ? thing go out.


Tomorrow


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## WaterwackerSiah (Jan 30, 2020)

Duck depression going to hit hard tomorrow


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## Bubba_1122 (Jan 30, 2020)

kingfish said:


> Plus if those are woodies, you can only kill 3 per person so they re a mile over the limit


Those are ringnecks (and they’re mighty fun to shoot). 

Pretty sure the limit’s 6 apiece on those (times 7 is 42).

The issue wasn’t how many they killed (that woulda been less than the legal limit). The issue is that they kilt them over bait.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 30, 2020)

Bubba_1122 said:


> Those are ringnecks (and they’re mighty fun to shoot).
> 
> Pretty sure the limit’s 6 apiece on those (times 7 is 42).
> 
> The issue wasn’t how many they killed (that woulda been less than the legal limit). The issue is that they kilt them over bait.


They didn’t let them eat it. ?


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## jiminbogart (Jan 30, 2020)

Y'all help me out here. I ain't wasting precious time shooting flying chickens when Kroger has them all laid out for my old lady to fetch.

Do the ducks fly around looking at the ground from 500 feet in the air and say "Hey Donald, I see some little yeller cubes in that pond. Looks like corn. Let's fly down and take a look see."?

If so, how about using "fake" corn to "bait" them in. Toss a bunch of biodegradable not food yeller cubes in the pond and wait for them to do a fly by? I assume this would be legal. Decoy corn.

If this ideer ain't been used I call dibs on the fake corn invention. I'll be rich!


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## Bubba_1122 (Jan 30, 2020)

kmckinnie said:


> They didn’t let them eat it. ?


They caught a poacher this year where I hunt. They went to his house and took the deer he'd killed (but someone ate it - just not him). 

Same deal with ducks (that'd be kinda like catching a burglar and then letting him keep the TV he stole).


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## killerv (Jan 31, 2020)

Core Lokt said:


> Tony Cox (Not pictured) will  go to his grave looking for baiters. As soon as duck season comes in he quits patrolling deer hunters and it's strictly all about the ducks on public and private.  I'd be willing to bet he learned of this spot from patrolling long before the day they caught them.



And thats my point, the hunters, even as unethical as they are, could and should have been warned that dnr knows the pond is baited and they better not be caught hunting over it. DNR should have ended the stake out after the first bird was shot over an illegally baited pond.

I know someone who got busted for a bunch of doves over the limit. DNR sat there watching just knowing he would have a big bust when the hunt was over. The officer got scolded by the judge for not stopping it once he had counted 15 shot birds. The judge gave the guy a $25 fine for 1 bird over the limit since he believe the officer should have acted sooner.


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 31, 2020)

killerv said:


> And thats my point, the hunters, even as unethical as they are, could and should have been warned that dnr knows the pond is baited and they better not be caught hunting over it. DNR should have ended the stake out after the first bird was shot over an illegally baited pond.
> 
> I know someone who got busted for a bunch of doves over the limit. DNR sat there watching just knowing he would have a big bust when the hunt was over. The officer got scolded by the judge for not stopping it once he had counted 15 shot birds. The judge gave the guy a $25 fine for 1 bird over the limit since he believe the officer should have acted sooner.



Yes they should have stopped them earlier but like you said they could of been waiting for more. Most tickets are to repeat offenders and something like a baiting ticket is one that the officer has put a lot of time and effort into. They have documented the offendent putting the bait out and shooting over it. But they also believe that if the people are going to bait they will also break other laws shooting over the limit etc. When you get compounding offenses it can lead to a bigger ticket loss of license. I think these help deter others from doing the same when the word gets out.


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## killerv (Jan 31, 2020)

but these guys weren't over the limit. So you are saying it was worth 38 illegally killed ducks to keep these guys from hunting for the next few years? I'm not sure if the end justifies the means here. If its to a repeat offender, one illegal bird should have been enough to throw the book at them.


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 31, 2020)

killerv said:


> but these guys weren't over the limit. So you are saying it was worth 38 illegally killed ducks to keep these guys from hunting for the next few years? I'm not sure if the end justifies the means here. If its to a repeat offender, one illegal bird should have been enough to throw the book at them.



Well it’s up to the judge to determine penalty in Georgia. They may have only been able to kill 38, not  more which the officer may have been waiting on. And I don’t believe that a single baiting ticket takes a license away, I could be wrong. I Know that you can look it up in Sc and it does not.


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## Duckbuster82 (Jan 31, 2020)

I hunt with some game wardens time to time and the stories they tell are pretty intriguing. The amount of time and effort they put in is incredible. So yes it would be nice for them to stop it early but sometimes to secure the case they can not.


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## Core Lokt (Jan 31, 2020)

jiminbogart said:


> Y'all help me out here. I ain't wasting precious time shooting flying chickens when Kroger has them all laid out for my old lady to fetch.
> 
> Do the ducks fly around looking at the ground from 500 feet in the air and say "Hey Donald, I see some little yeller cubes in that pond. Looks like corn. Let's fly down and take a look see."?
> 
> ...




Most times coots and other birds find the bait first and they attract the ducks.


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## emusmacker (Feb 19, 2020)

dc1 said:


> OK I will say it cause no one else will.  7 hunters can take 6 ducks a piece.  That is 42 ducks.  They only had 38.  Yes it appears they were baiting.  So it is okay to shoot deer over bait?  It is okay to manipulate a dove field?  It is okay to flood a corn field? Moral: flood don't throw.  To me it is this simple: ALL baiting should be illegal or baiting should be legal and the limits strictly enforced.  $500 per bird over the limit and loose hunting privileges for 5 years.  WOULD THAT DETER YOU?  How many of us can afford to purchase tractors, planters, seed, fertilizer, and buy the land?  We know who benefits from the law that allows flooding corn fields, the plantation owners, the wealthy.  They have the resources and the connections.  So the rest of us, working class rednecks can pay these ridiculous lease prices and hope we have a good hunt maybe once or twice a season.  I choose not to bait, but at my age the number of birds taken is not the reason I go.  The whistling wings, the site of a wood duck dancing thru the trees, the cupped wings and feet down of a ring neck or bluebill.  And oh yea, these folks did not impact anybody's hunting season but their own.  Last couple of years nesting pairs are down and the projected migration numbers are down.


 

So are you against food plots also?  they are just legalized baiting.


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## across the river (Feb 19, 2020)

emusmacker said:


> So are you against food plots also?  they are just legalized baiting.




The food plots are legalized baiting arguments are ignorant.   There is only way that "food" can be grown in Iowa, and hunted over in Georgia, and that is via illegal baiting.  That is it.  Every type of food that can be legally hunted over, including moist soil, aquatic plants, agricultural left overs, green tree reservoirs, flood corn ponds, planted water lilly, japanese millet around a pond edge, and so on is hunted in the location in which it was grown. Every legal method has that in common regarding of whether is was hardwood bottom naturally flooded, a GTR intentionally flooded by Arkansas, or a person's own private "food plot" pond.  Baiting is completely different, and arguing otherwise is, again, ignorant.  It is also typically made by the guys stuck on public land somewhere who should spend more time worrying about getting their own private spot and less time complaining about someone else's.


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## chase870 (Feb 19, 2020)

killerv said:


> So these guys just happened by a baited pond on patrol while it was being hunted, somehow knew it was baited from the road and proceeded to let them shoot all these birds. Something tells me they knew about it, watched, and they could have stopped it after the first duck was shot. Talk about conservation...


They will sure enough let you kill more than one before they show up


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## chase870 (Feb 19, 2020)

kmckinnie said:


> Deer can eat at night. And they do.
> Ducks are a daytime critter.
> The flooded pond takes work and money. That’s how it got legal.
> Just pointing out some common sence.
> Y’all fire a way at me now. ?


Ducks feed and fly at night


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## kmckinnie (Feb 19, 2020)

chase870 said:


> Ducks feed and fly at night


Really wanna start hunting them now then


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## willie1971 (Feb 20, 2020)

just an observation - people with means/money have resources to plant impoundments and create great habitat for hammering game.  yet the same people who make these laws come from means and have the means to plant and hammer game.  but the average guy who doesnt own land or is able to hunt private may struggle. I dunno.... seems like a conversation worth while


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## across the river (Feb 21, 2020)

willie1971 said:


> just an observation - people with means/money have resources to plant impoundments and create great habitat for hammering game.  yet the same people who make these laws come from means and have the means to plant and hammer game.  but the average guy who doesnt own land or is able to hunt private may struggle. I dunno.... seems like a conversation worth while


What conversation is that, socialism?


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## king killer delete (Feb 21, 2020)

Scout and if that doesn’t work travel


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## Uptonongood (Feb 23, 2020)

I’ll tell you my experiences. Ducks going into and feeding on bait fly and flock up differently than non-baited birds. The LE guys know it, too. I joined a duck club in western Washington State back in 1996. Hunters were assigned their hunting partners and which pond they would be hunting. Well, that first hunt was incredible. i had great hunting there and mediocre hunting on other days at that club. I Couldn’t figure out why there was such variation between almost identical bodies of water. I quit the club, joined a different one that I managed. I noticed bird flight patterns that looked odd when birds bypassed our water and piled into the adjoining club. I Started watching how they bunched up on the water...Two LE Officers walked in to my club to check us. We had a discussion on baiting behavior by waterfowl.  The LE guys went in next door one night, found the bait and busted the hunters and the club owner The next hunt. Birds spread out better after that bust, too.

Nowadays,I’m betting LE will be using drones for stuff like baiting.  The LE guys told me they can tell some baited areas just by flying over in a plane.  Planes are expensive to operate, drones aren’t.


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## across the river (Feb 23, 2020)

Uptonongood said:


> I’ll tell you my experiences. Ducks going into and feeding on bait fly and flock up differently than non-baited birds. The LE guys know it, too. I joined a duck club in western Washington State back in 1996. Hunters were assigned their hunting partners and which pond they would be hunting. Well, that first hunt was incredible. i had great hunting there and mediocre hunting on other days at that club. I Couldn’t figure out why there was such variation between almost identical bodies of water. I quit the club, joined a different one that I managed. I noticed bird flight patterns that looked odd when birds bypassed our water and piled into the adjoining club. I Started watching how they bunched up on the water...Two LE Officers walked in to my club to check us. We had a discussion on baiting behavior by waterfowl.  The LE guys went in next door one night, found the bait and busted the hunters and the club owner The next hunt. Birds spread out better after that bust, too.
> 
> Nowadays,I’m betting LE will be using drones for stuff like baiting.  The LE guys told me they can tell some baited areas just by flying over in a plane.  Planes are expensive to operate, drones aren’t.





My first ever effort at planting for ducks was a little pond that was maybe 1/2 - 3/4 of an acre old cow watering pond that pretty much dried up completely or in large part in the summer.  We planted jap millet  and some corn, though it didn't make very well, around the edges in the summer.  The millet actually did well and we got some rain in time to actually put some water in the thing.   The black birds hit it pretty good, but there were a few wood ducks and even a few others species still using it before season.   I think we killed a 2 or 3 woodducks and a teal opening weekend between three of us, but by the time the season got there, that small pond was pretty much eaten up by all the birds and the few ducks that were using it.  By the second split, there wasn't a duck hardly using it, so we just went back to the lake.  We realized pretty quickly that you had to go bigger than that to have really any success.   By the same token, I know a guy that had a maybe 1/4 acre, if that, wet spot in some woods on his place where something had been dug out or dirt moved for some reason.  He killed ducks every week all season on that place with another guy over yellow acorns they dumped in the place every week.   Like I've said before, people who say there is no difference don't know what they are talking about.  The second scenario is what the regulation is intending to prevent.   You can bait a swimming pool size spot all year, where as planting something that size is pretty much a waste of time.


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## critterbait (Feb 24, 2020)

Illegal hunters caught. GOOD!! Game wardens did their job. Great that's what we pay them to do !! The ducks got eaten hopefully by a needy family.  Even better!! The hunters were in the wrong the wardens did there job if you don't want to worry about getting caught do things by the rules of the game their all written out for you to follow.


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## across the river (Feb 24, 2020)

willie1971 said:


> just an observation - people with means/money have resources to plant impoundments and create great habitat for hammering game.  yet the same people who make these laws come from means and have the means to plant and hammer game.  but the average guy who doesnt own land or is able to hunt private may struggle. I dunno.... seems like a conversation worth while




I keep reading this theory not just on here but on other places as the reason birds don't "migrate" south and people haven't has a much luck in reason years.   There is was more unharvested corn in the midwest this year than virtually any year on recording, and it was in large part due to wet weather.  What corn hunters plant isn't a drop in the bucket compared to what is planted across the country for agriculture.  

http://www.feedandgrain.com/news/harvest-slows-amidst-wet-weather-early-freeze
https://www.agriculture.com/crops/progress-maps/corn-harvest-progress


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## Duckbuster82 (Feb 24, 2020)

willie1971 said:


> just an observation - people with means/money have resources to plant impoundments and create great habitat for hammering game.  yet the same people who make these laws come from means and have the means to plant and hammer game.  but the average guy who doesnt own land or is able to hunt private may struggle. I dunno.... seems like a conversation worth while



Like I have said before the people who plant impoundment and create other forms of habitat do more for ducks than anyone. There is also a huge difference between dumping corn and planting corn. Most guys that can’t kill them on public will not kill them in a private corn pond. Even many corn ponds do not kill the number of birds you think that they do. But now you put a pile of corn in a swamp, pond, lake or wherever and anyone can kill them. You will not need decoys or to call birds will pile into that exact spot the corn is. In a corn pond they have many acres to land and can get food at any spot in the pond. Birds must still be convinced to come within gun range. I do not hunt corn ponds and actually do not want to hunt them. I Hunt 99% public but am completely behind people that spend their money to help the birds.


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## emusmacker (Mar 5, 2020)

across the river said:


> The food plots are legalized baiting arguments are ignorant.   There is only way that "food" can be grown in Iowa, and hunted over in Georgia, and that is via illegal baiting.  That is it.  Every type of food that can be legally hunted over, including moist soil, aquatic plants, agricultural left overs, green tree reservoirs, flood corn ponds, planted water lilly, japanese millet around a pond edge, and so on is hunted in the location in which it was grown. Every legal method has that in common regarding of whether is was hardwood bottom naturally flooded, a GTR intentionally flooded by Arkansas, or a person's own private "food plot" pond.  Baiting is completely different, and arguing otherwise is, again, ignorant.  It is also typically made by the guys stuck on public land somewhere who should spend more time worrying about getting their own private spot and less time complaining about someone else's.



So then if it's legal it's ok?  So please define the difference then other than being illegal.I own my own property. I also think that a food plot is just legal baiting. Which I'm fine with. Enforce the limits.  Once you get your limit, go home.


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## across the river (Mar 5, 2020)

emusmacker said:


> So then if it's legal it's ok?  So please define the difference then other than being illegal.I own my own property. I also think that a food plot is just legal baiting. Which I'm fine with. Enforce the limits.  Once you get your limit, go home.




I did in the post you quoted, but a simple way to remember it is "If you take the water to the corn, it is legal.   If you take the corn to the water, it is illegal."   If it grows in the spot you hunt it, it isn't baiting, nor should it be.  If it doesn't grown in the spot you hunt, and you transported it from somewhere else, it is baiting. I don't understand how people don't get that concept.



You have private land, so lets say you have a acre pond on your place.   You plant it in corn or millet, and that little bit of food doesn't last long once the ducks, black birds, etc... find it.  The number of ducks that you will be able to kill off of a place that small will be pretty low, because the food won't last.   Now if you take a 55 gallon drum of corn there grown in Iowa every week and keep replenishing it, you can hunt it all season.  The birds dive bomb a small area, you and two buddies kill 8 or 9 a weekended. You have taken a bunch of birds off of habitat that wouldn't support anywhere near that number of birds without baiting, and you wouldn't come close to that.  Baiting adds no habitat whatsoever.  Planting food plots does.

So what do you not consider baiting?   If I plant oak trees, smartweed that comes back year after year that I can manipulate, drain and control water to promote moist soil habitat, have harvested agricultural fields to hunt, have banana water Lilly that I planted and promoted, etc...., is all that baiting as well since it was"human induced".
No.

Again, hunting it where it is grown is, and should be legal.   Hunting food many miles from where it came out of the ground is not.


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## mattuga (Mar 5, 2020)

emusmacker said:


> So then if it's legal it's ok?  So please define the difference then other than being illegal.I own my own property. I also think that a food plot is just legal baiting. Which I'm fine with. Enforce the limits.  Once you get your limit, go home.



I think you are missing the point others have tried to make about baiting vs planting...but I'll try again.  Planted food provides habitat, it is not a swimming pool with corn in it.  A corn pile is there for you to kill ducks easily.  No one would plant or go thru the effort of planting to provide SEASON long food and cover for ducks if they could throw a pile of corn out and slay their limit.

I think pressure is a main mover of ducks during hunting season.  Corn piles, my word.

I get the point against farming for ducks with agriculture practices as a cover to what is going on, essentially unharvested food for ducks in water.  That ain't cheap but we are fighting against loss of wetlands for ducks so providing flooded crops along the flyway is essential.  That is a long discussion that can be had to the pluses and minuses.  I think weather pushes ducks, but not like it used to bc of free food up north (MS Flyway).  Bait piles would not help hunting ducks but for a brief period.


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## across the river (Mar 5, 2020)

mattuga said:


> I think you are missing the point others have tried to make about baiting vs planting...but I'll try again.  Planted food provides habitat, it is not a swimming pool with corn in it.  A corn pile is there for you to kill ducks easily.  No one would plant or go thru the effort of planting to provide SEASON long food and cover for ducks if they could throw a pile of corn out and slay their limit.
> 
> I think pressure is a main mover of ducks during hunting season.  Corn piles, my word.
> 
> I get the point against farming for ducks with agriculture practices as a cover to what is going on, essentially unharvested food for ducks in water.  That ain't cheap but we are fighting against loss of wetlands for ducks so providing flooded crops along the flyway is essential.  That is a long discussion that can be had to the pluses and minuses.  I think weather pushes ducks, but not like it used to bc of free food up north (MS Flyway).  Bait piles would not help hunting ducks but for a brief period.



The amount of unharvest n the United States and Canada this year that was specifically planted for ducks, likely doesn't equal the acreage that existed in a single county in North Dakota.   Well over half of the states corn wasn't harvest by December, and much of it got naturally flooded.  That is one state, one.  This notion that people "planting for ducks" is short stopping birds is ludicrous. It is such a minimal amount of acreage in the grand scheme of things, that it is essentially insignificant.  There was soooooo much food and habitat for ducks this year up north it was crazy, and much of it "never froze over."  Most ducks aren't leaving unless they have to.  The guys with corn ponds in the bootheel of Missourri had nothing to do with people not seeing ducks in Georgia.


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## mattuga (Mar 5, 2020)

across the river said:


> The amount of unharvest n the United States and Canada this year that was specifically planted for ducks, likely doesn't equal the acreage that existed in a single county in North Dakota.   Well over half of the states corn wasn't harvest by December, and much of it got naturally flooded.  That is one state, one.  This notion that people "planting for ducks" is short stopping birds is ludicrous. It is such a minimal amount of acreage in the grand scheme of things, that it is essentially insignificant.  There was soooooo much food and habitat for ducks this year up north it was crazy, and much of it "never froze over."  Most ducks aren't leaving unless they have to.  The guys with corn ponds in the bootheel of Missourri had nothing to do with people not seeing ducks in Georgia.



Not to get off topic from baiting but...

I think we are largely on the same page but large unhunted planted refuges areas are a problem keeping ducks localized and feeding at night knowing they have large areas to go between to be unhunted.  Heck, California rotates refuges, how do they have that right?  This goes for mainly public refuges.  Loss of overall habitat is a bigger issue than anything we are discussing so some private holes planted for ducks ain't gonna effect the flyway but multiple large duck refuges planted with unharvested food can hold a boat load of ducks all season.  That has its pluses and minuses but I am no expert to delve much further than than other than speculation. 

The lack of commercial harvest from flooding will always affect the middle flyways in bad years like the last 2, so much food left and no snow.  The Canada bred Mallards aren't coming too far south if they have open water and no snow covering food.  The small ducks aren't around like I recall, where did the shovelers go?  They avoid the pressure from the lower MS flyway (yes, I am part of that pressure)

I also do not think the duck counts are accurately presented.  They are made by companies that benefit financially from good news.  Just my 2 cents.  If the #'s were as high as claimed we'd be kiling more ducks.  They are roosting on refuges and feeding at night on easy to eat food nowadays.


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## across the river (Mar 5, 2020)

mattuga said:


> Not to get off topic from baiting but...
> 
> I think we are largely on the same page but large unhunted planted refuges areas are a problem keeping ducks localized and feeding at night knowing they have large areas to go between to be unhunted.  Heck, California rotates refuges, how do they have that right?  This goes for mainly public refuges.  Loss of overall habitat is a bigger issue than anything we are discussing so some private holes planted for ducks ain't gonna effect the flyway but multiple large duck refuges planted with unharvested food can hold a boat load of ducks all season.  That has its pluses and minuses but I am no expert to delve much further than than other than speculation.
> 
> ...




I have no problem with a refugee, public or private, and I think they are very beneficial.   I don't understand this thinking that they are "bad."    Is the Savannah NWR a good thing overall, absolutely, and if you gave me the option to build an impoundment to hunt close to the NWR, or the same one in the middle of nowhere, I'm picking by the NWR every time.  The more ducks you can draw to an area the better, and the more habitat overall the better. 

The FWS doesn't have a goal of getting limits for hunters.   They are there to manage  wildlife, and I would never have the expectation that they wouldn't build or maintain a refuge in Illinois, Minnesota, or Michigan because hunters in the Deep South don't think they are killing enough ducks.   The refuge benefits far more species than just the ones that get hunted, and I think they help hunters, especially the ones in the area of the refuge.    

As far as the surveys go, why would they lie.  Again, they don't really give a rip about hunters.   There is no benefit to the FWS or a state agency inflating the numbers. Do they inflate the woodcock, sandhill crane, and song birds surveys too?  A lot of state surveys were terrible this year, so there is not basis to the believe that they artificially inflating them.   As far as why you aren't seeing as many ducks as you expect, think if it like this.    There are tens of millions of people living along the coast of Georgia, Florida, and, South Carolina, and if you live in say Waycross or Albany, you really don't know that that many people exist.   However, you let a hurricane swing in toward the coast and people from everywhere will fill up every hotel and restaurant in the town.  The last couple of years, there haven't been any hurricanes, so the ducks have had no reason to leave the coast.   That doesn't mean they aren't there.


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## mattuga (Mar 5, 2020)

across the river said:


> #1
> Is the Savannah NWR a good thing overall, absolutely, and if you gave me the option to build an impoundment to hunt close to the NWR, or the same one in the middle of nowhere, I'm picking by the NWR every time.
> 
> #2
> As far as the surveys go, why would they lie.  Again, they don't really give a rip about hunters.   .



#1
*Yes, exactly my point.  A refuge concentrates ducks that know where they are unhunted.  I'm not saying open season on refuges, but hunt them on a rotation annually.  The WMAs can't do that because of $$ allocation, all the good $$ is spent on the refuge while the hunted land sucks.*

#2
*You answered your own question but left out "they still need their money and use outdated science that benefits their efforts and #'s".   The birds are more concentrated due to loss of habitat but the same areas are researched for the #'s.  *


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## across the river (Mar 5, 2020)

mattuga said:


> #1
> *Yes, exactly my point.  A refuge concentrates ducks that know where they are unhunted.  I'm not saying open season on refuges, but hunt them on a rotation annually.  The WMAs can't do that because of $$ allocation, all the good $$ is spent on the refuge while the hunted land sucks.*
> 
> #2
> *You answered your own question but left out "they still need their money and use outdated science that benefits their efforts and #'s".   The birds are more concentrated due to loss of habitat but the same areas are researched for the #'s.  *





Why is everything around ducks thought to be a conspiracy?  

A refuge is handled by the US Fish and Wildlife.  WMA's are managed by the state.  Again, the feds don't care what the hunter in Georgia killed last season, and they don't give a rip about your hunting opportunities here. That is not their purpose.  They are federally funded via the budget, and get nothing from you or anyone else's hunting hunting license. They don't get money for salaries or gas for the airplanes from duck stamps either.  Over half of the FWS's budget actually goes to the states to support state wildlife and conservation.  The money goes from the feds to the state, not the other way around.  You do pay for the federal surveys via your federal income tax, but they are going to get that money regardless of the what the duck numbers are or as Steve Harvey would say, "the survey says."  The amount of nesting habitat that they survey is primarily due to how wet the winter was, and numbers are numbers regardless.  They survey the same area each year, primarily via the air, and the land itself doesn't disappear even if the nesting habitat decreases.   They just fly over more fields and less ponds and count less ducks.

Your local public hunting opportunities, WMA's etc...are all state controlled.  The hunting and fishing opportunities that do exist on national refuges are generally run by the state they are in.   And news flash, the refuges don't hold birds because the* "good $$ is spent on the refuge while the hunted land sucks."   *The hunted land sucks because yahoos are constantly bothering the birds on the hunted land.   The birds are sitting on the refuges because the yahoos can't bother them there. The difference has less to do with money and more to do with idiots ( and the pressure they put on the birds).


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## Duckbuster82 (Mar 6, 2020)

What if I said duck counts were wrong and there were not as many ducks as they think?


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## across the river (Mar 6, 2020)

Duckbuster82 said:


> What if I said duck counts were wrong and there were not as many ducks as they think?



You or anyone else saying overall duck populations are down, because of what you see in you local area, is the equivalent of someone in some small town in Georgia saying the U.S. economy is in recession, because the local manufacturing plant closed down and they got laid off.  Everyone wants to draw a conclusion on something based on there own personal experience.  Just because the economy is down in one localized area, doesn't mean it is down overall across the country. Heck the company may be doing really well and  may have shut the plant down to build a newer more modern one somewhere else with a more skill labor pool, but the local guy still thinks the economy sucks, because he doesn't have a job.   In the same way, people in Georgia or Louisiana haven't seen as many ducks as they have in the past, so now of course the survey counts are wrong. Some of the best years I ever had were in years when the survey population were down in the 90's, where they wrong then too?   No, there were just other factors like the weather, hunting pressure, habitat, etc.... that made those really good years.


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## king killer delete (Mar 6, 2020)

across the river said:


> I have no problem with a refugee, public or private, and I think they are very beneficial.   I don't understand this thinking that they are "bad."    Is the Savannah NWR a good thing overall, absolutely, and if you gave me the option to build an impoundment to hunt close to the NWR, or the same one in the middle of nowhere, I'm picking by the NWR every time.  The more ducks you can draw to an area the better, and the more habitat overall the better.
> 
> The FWS doesn't have a goal of getting limits for hunters.   They are there to manage  wildlife, and I would never have the expectation that they wouldn't build or maintain a refuge in Illinois, Minnesota, or Michigan because hunters in the Deep South don't think they are killing enough ducks.   The refuge benefits far more species than just the ones that get hunted, and I think they help hunters, especially the ones in the area of the refuge.
> 
> As far as the surveys go, why would they lie.  Again, they don't really give a rip about hunters.   There is no benefit to the FWS or a state agency inflating the numbers. Do they inflate the woodcock, sandhill crane, and song birds surveys too?  A lot of state surveys were terrible this year, so there is not basis to the believe that they artificially inflating them.   As far as why you aren't seeing as many ducks as you expect, think if it like this.    There are tens of millions of people living along the coast of Georgia, Florida, and, South Carolina, and if you live in say Waycross or Albany, you really don't know that that many people exist.   However, you let a hurricane swing in toward the coast and people from everywhere will fill up every hotel and restaurant in the town.  The last couple of years, there haven't been any hurricanes, so the ducks have had no reason to leave the coast.   That doesn't mean they aren't there.


Exactly and on the coast there is so much water it is hard to find large concentrations of ducks.


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## Big7 (Mar 6, 2020)

blood on the ground said:


> Sure hope they didn't just dispose of all those ducks. Hope they were given to folks that will eat them.


That's what I was thinking. Someone should make use of the meat. Plenty of folks down there can't afford to eat. Much less something like that.. 

And yeah... Those fools need do some jail. And then some serious public service (or whatever it's called now) working on public land. Maybe they could learn a little about the damage they have done. Oh yeah.. Waterfowl license.... Kiss that goodbye for at least 5 years, maybe10.???


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## Duckbuster82 (Mar 6, 2020)

across the river said:


> You or anyone else saying overall duck populations are down, because of what you see in you local area, is the equivalent of someone in some small town in Georgia saying the U.S. economy is in recession, because the local manufacturing plant closed down and they got laid off.  Everyone wants to draw a conclusion on something based on there own personal experience.  Just because the economy is down in one localized area, doesn't mean it is down overall across the country. Heck the company may be doing really well and  may have shut the plant down to build a newer more modern one somewhere else with a more skill labor pool, but the local guy still thinks the economy sucks, because he doesn't have a job.   In the same way, people in Georgia or Louisiana haven't seen as many ducks as they have in the past, so now of course the survey counts are wrong. Some of the best years I ever had were in years when the survey population were down in the 90's, where they wrong then too?   No, there were just other factors like the weather, hunting pressure, habitat, etc.... that made those really good years.



I get around a little bit and have friends that hunt from Canada to Mexico, California to Carolina. Same report bird numbers are down. This year was one of the lowest number of birds that i saw for the year, but it was the highest number of birds I have killed In a year. I’m not saying bird numbers are up down or anything just saying maybe it’s a factor in the issues we see.


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## Mexican Squealer (Mar 6, 2020)

I just hope things get back to normal....lack of cold, duck numbers down or whatever is going on we all look forward to the ducks coming back.  Makes me think about the way “imprinting” depleates and how long that takes to become a factor..  I had a bunch of mallards on my place the past week. Was
A welcome site, season or not.


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## emusmacker (Mar 11, 2020)

LOL so planting a 1/2 acre plot of winter wheat is gonna really benefit the deer all year?  That's so much different than planting a small 1/2acre corn plot and flooding it?  lol that's funny.


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## Duckbuster82 (Mar 12, 2020)

emusmacker said:


> LOL so planting a 1/2 acre plot of winter wheat is gonna really benefit the deer all year?  That's so much different than planting a small 1/2acre corn plot and flooding it?  lol that's funny.



Who plants a half acre of corn for ducks? That’s not going to hold many birds or attract many birds. I don’t think that you can really compare deer to ducks. Since deer are already existing on a track of land. Food plots can help supply the right nutrition, it can also concentrate them but it’s not bringing them to the property. Now as far as impoundments are concerned I believe that they are becoming more and more important every year. With thousands of acres of natural wetlands being loss or stripped of vegetation there is an issue for migrating birds that rely on the nutrition that was natural. Now people that plant a true impoundments 30+ acres and multiple ponds they are helping. Now you may say that’s baiting ect. I Promis the average hunter would still struggle to take advantage of one if they had it. Unlike deer hunting over a half acre food plot that you can shoot the entire area, In an impoundment you still have to convince ducks to come within range. Now that’s where pouring corn out is not fair. They will dive into that specific area the corn has been placed, no calling, decoys or scouting needed.


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## across the river (Mar 14, 2020)

dc1 said:


> OK I will say it cause no one else will.  7 hunters can take 6 ducks a piece.  That is 42 ducks.  They only had 38.  Yes it appears they were baiting.  So it is okay to shoot deer over bait?  It is okay to manipulate a dove field?  It is okay to flood a corn field? Moral: flood don't throw.  To me it is this simple: ALL baiting should be illegal or baiting should be legal and the limits strictly enforced.  $500 per bird over the limit and loose hunting privileges for 5 years.  WOULD THAT DETER YOU?  How many of us can afford to purchase tractors, planters, seed, fertilizer, and buy the land?  We know who benefits from the law that allows flooding corn fields, the plantation owners, the wealthy.  They have the resources and the connections.  So the rest of us, working class rednecks can pay these ridiculous lease prices and hope we have a good hunt maybe once or twice a season.  I choose not to bait, but at my age the number of birds taken is not the reason I go.  The whistling wings, the site of a wood duck dancing thru the trees, the cupped wings and feet down of a ring neck or bluebill.  And oh yea, these folks did not impact anybody's hunting season but their own.  Last couple of years nesting pairs are down and the projected migration numbers are down.



Yet how many "working class rednecks" have a $40,000+ pickup towing a $20,000+ boat or a $15,000 Polaris, with a $30,000+ camper sitting in the yard. I know a bunch of them.  For what most guys spend on depreciable assists, and the interest the pay financing them, they could have easily bought their on piece of land with a beaver swap, built a pond on it, etc....., and had their own "plantation."


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