# Is this just a rock?



## KevChap (Jun 7, 2021)

It looked strange to me.. might just be a rock that's been broke but it looks like the edges might have been worked on


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## Nicodemus (Jun 7, 2021)

It`s been worked. Hard to tell what it was. Looks like a base of a point.


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## KevChap (Jun 7, 2021)

That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Yeah, definitely worked. Maybe a preform that was broken during manufacture?


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Yeah, definitely worked. Maybe a preform that was broken during manufacture?


Using the tools they had back then, how many you reckon would break out of getting a good one? Naturally it would consider the rock material they are working with.
I just read that in the Piedmont of North Carolina they used a lot of rhyolite. I had to google that but it doesn't look all that easy to knap. I guess they had to use what they had.
Here are some example and you can see the grain. Some of the best rhyolite is fine grain and close to obsidian.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Artfuldodger said:


> Using the tools they had back then, how many you reckon would break out of getting a good one? Naturally it would consider the rock material they are working with.
> I just read that in the Piedmont of North Carolina they used a lot of rhyolite. I had to google that but it doesn't look all that easy to knap. I guess they had to use what they had.


It depends on the material and the skill of the knapper, but I can tell you that I have myself broken thousands of preforms while knapping. I doubt if they were much different. There is a nearly knee-high pile of stuff that looks like the OP's find in the corner of my yard.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 8, 2021)

I may have it backwards, maybe the grainy rocks like rhyolite are easier to work than say chert.


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## KevChap (Jun 8, 2021)

There's a old clear cut and a landing that's still dirt at my hunting club. I've found about 6 or 7 in the same area since deer season. It's about 100 yards from a creek. I wanna get in that creek and walk so bad I can't stand it. I'm gonna make time to do that soon


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## KevChap (Jun 8, 2021)

I also wanna get down there when they till the food plots and look before they get planted. I've never found that much stuff in one area


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## Thunder Head (Jun 8, 2021)

When I was a kid and the lake was down. My grandmother would take me over to a big flat that is covered in quartz. There were literally hundreds of worked pieces of white quartz. I never found a intact piece.
 I always thought they must have came there to make points. Quartz being what it is. Lots broke during the process.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Artfuldodger said:


> I may have it backwards, maybe the grainy rocks like rhyolite are easier to work than say chert.


Lord, no. Rhyolite is a much tougher material, and harder to knap. It varies, too. There is some really good rhyolite, and some nasty, unknappable chert.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Artfuldodger said:


> Using the tools they had back then, how many you reckon would break out of getting a good one? Naturally it would consider the rock material they are working with.
> I just read that in the Piedmont of North Carolina they used a lot of rhyolite. I had to google that but it doesn't look all that easy to knap. I guess they had to use what they had.
> Here are some example and you can see the grain. Some of the best rhyolite is fine grain and close to obsidian.


I've knapped tons of rhyolite, from the nastiest to the best. The better grades are good knapping material, especially for tough applications like hunting points. I really like working it. But, the best of it is nowhere remotely even in the same ballpark as obsidian.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> I've knapped tons of rhyolite, from the nastiest to the best. The better grades are good knapping material, especially for tough applications like hunting points. I really like working it. But, the best of it is nowhere remotely even in the same ballpark as obsidian.


Yeah, but obsidian is just so boring.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> Yeah, but obsidian is just so boring.


It's also a guarantee of cutting yourself. I've always loved knapping the tough stuff like rhyolite and quartzite. You have to use big huge wooden billets and hit it like you're killing a snake. My hands hurt and cramp up so much these days that I hardly ever do much knapping, though.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> It's also a guarantee of cutting yourself. I've always loved knapping the tough stuff like rhyolite and quartzite. You have to use big huge wooden billets and hit it like you're killing a snake. My hands hurt and cramp up so much these days that I hardly ever do much knapping, though.


I don't do much anymore, but when I do, I use pneumatic chisel with fire sharpened tool. Fire sharpened will bite enough to work right, but carbide slips right off the rock.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> I don't do much anymore, but when I do, I use pneumatic chisel with fire sharpened tool. Fire sharpened will bite enough to work right, but carbide slips right off the rock.


Never seen anybody flintknap with pneumatic chisels or carbide tools? I use antler, wood, and copper hand tools.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Never seen anybody flintknap with pneumatic chisels or carbide tools? I use antler, wood, and copper hand tools.


Among other things, I am a journeyman syonecutter. Pneumatic is nice, but you have to have learned the tool doing other things like skulpting, raised letters, relief carving etc. 
Hold air tool and chisel in same hand at base of tool/top of chisel. Touch the chisel where you want the break, put a touch of pressure and it breaks easy. One of the old, old, stonecutters showed me how to do it.  He made a fortune on counterfeit indian artifacts.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> Among other things, I am a journeyman syonecutter. Pneumatic is nice, but you have to have learned the tool doing other things like skulpting, raised letters, relief carving etc.
> Hold air tool and chisel in same hand at base of tool/top of chisel. Touch the chisel where you want the break, put a touch of pressure and it breaks easy. One of the old, old, stonecutters showed me how to do it.  He made a fortune on counterfeit indian artifacts.


How do you run thinning and edging flakes with a chisel? It wouldn't look anything at all like a projectile point, except for the general outline.


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## Para Bellum (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> It's also a guarantee of cutting yourself. I've always loved knapping the tough stuff like rhyolite and quartzite. You have to use big huge wooden billets and hit it like you're killing a snake. My hands hurt and cramp up so much these days that I hardly ever do much knapping, though.



I have arthritis bad in my hands and knapping kills me.  Have to soak my hands in a Yeti cooler to numb em.


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## KevChap (Jun 8, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> I have arthritis bad in my hands and knapping kills me.  Have to soak my hands in a Yeti cooler to numb em.


I've never turned a rock into a arrowhead but I'll use any excuse to soak my hands in a cooler to grab another beer


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## JustUs4All (Jun 8, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> Among other things, I am a journeyman syonecutter. Pneumatic is nice, but you have to have learned the tool doing other things like skulpting, raised letters, relief carving etc.
> Hold air tool and chisel in same hand at base of tool/top of chisel. Touch the chisel where you want the break, put a touch of pressure and it breaks easy. One of the old, old, stonecutters showed me how to do it.  He made a fortune on counterfeit indian artifacts.



Wow.  I have never known the like of talent in anyone else.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 8, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> Among other things, I am a journeyman syonecutter. Pneumatic is nice, but you have to have learned the tool doing other things like skulpting, raised letters, relief carving etc.
> Hold air tool and chisel in same hand at base of tool/top of chisel. Touch the chisel where you want the break, put a touch of pressure and it breaks easy. One of the old, old, stonecutters showed me how to do it.  He made a fortune on counterfeit indian artifacts.




I`d like to see some of the points you`ve made with this technique.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`d like to see some of the points you`ve made with this technique.


Definitely.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 8, 2021)

Para Bellum said:


> I have arthritis bad in my hands and knapping kills me.  Have to soak my hands in a Yeti cooler to numb em.


That's the point I'm getting to now.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> How do you run thinning and edging flakes with a chisel? It wouldn't look anything at all like a projectile point, except for the general outline.


By hand near the tip. You are not cutting stone with the chisel. You are breaking it.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

JustUs4All said:


> Wow.  I have never known the like of talent in anyone else.


Yep. I have done a lot of different things. Worked at P.D/S.O. and always had a side hustle of some kind.


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## Ray357 (Jun 8, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`d like to see some of the points you`ve made with this technique.


I shall post you some pictures when I go to my shop where they stored. Maybe tomorrow.


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## kmckinnie (Jun 8, 2021)

Anyone can make them points with a air chisel, but hand carved bows and arrows are the trick !!


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## Pig Predator (Jun 8, 2021)

I cut mine out with a wet saw and finish em up with a 16 penny nail shoved in a corn cob.


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## Pig Predator (Jun 8, 2021)

Angle grinder with a diamond blade works well on the flutes.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 9, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> Anyone can make them points with a air chisel, but hand carved bows and arrows are the trick !!


I doubt it. At least not ones that look like points.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 9, 2021)

Pig Predator said:


> Angle grinder with a diamond blade works well on the flutes.


Except it doesn't look like a flute.


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Jun 10, 2021)

I want to see these power tool artifacts.  I've got chisels and grinders and cutters of all sorts.  I hate to think I've been missing out on an easy side hustle.


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## Pig Predator (Jun 10, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> I want to see these power tool artifacts.  I've got chisels and grinders and cutters of all sorts.  I hate to think I've been missing out on an easy side hustle.


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## mguthrie (Jun 20, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> I shall post you some pictures when I go to my shop where they stored. Maybe tomorrow.


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## Limb Walker (Jun 20, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> I shall post you some pictures when I go to my shop where they stored. Maybe tomorrow.



Get lost going home?   I am also interested in seeing what you have produced as well as tools used.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 21, 2021)

Pig Predator said:


>


That's not making points with power tools, per se. That's called "flake over grind." The ancient Egyptians and Danes were doing that long ago without the power tools. Basically, you cut the stone to the thickness you want as a slab, but you still have to use traditional pressure flaking techniques to shape it, sharpen it, notch it, and cover the surface with flake scars. It's a shortcut cheat, but you still have to have some flintknapping skills to do that.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 22, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> I shall post you some pictures when I go to my shop where they stored. Maybe tomorrow.




We`re still waiting.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 22, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's not making points with power tools, per se. That's called "flake over grind." The ancient Egyptians and Danes were doing that long ago without the power tools. Basically, you cut the stone to the thickness you want as a slab, but you still have to use traditional pressure flaking techniques to shape it, sharpen it, notch it, and cover the surface with flake scars. It's a shortcut cheat, but you still have to have some flintknapping skills to do that.




Yep, the "FOG" technique.  Those Gerzian knives were pretty blades.


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## NCHillbilly (Jun 22, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Yep, the "FOG" technique.  Those Gerzian knives were pretty blades.


And Danish daggers. I have a small ancient prismatic blade from Europe that somebody sent me from Germany a long time ago. It's one of my most prized possessions.


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## GeorgiaGlockMan (Jun 22, 2021)

ChapmanTree said:


> It looked strange to me.. might just be a rock that's been broke but it looks like the edges might have been worked onView attachment 1084187View attachment 1084188View attachment 1084191


I started finding broke morrow point and wondered the same thing till I found a whole one.

Like Nic said its a base.

Keep looking in that area wholes will turn up.


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## trad bow (Jun 23, 2021)

Y’all got more patience then me. I’m tired of waiting!!


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## Nicodemus (Jul 6, 2021)

Ray357 said:


> I shall post you some pictures when I go to my shop where they stored. Maybe tomorrow.




@Ray357 , you still with us?


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## kmckinnie (Jul 6, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> @Ray357 , you still with us?


Maybe try a PM and it will go to his email. 
Seems he’s on a drinking binge ! Ain’t been on here in a spell.


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## Thunder Head (Jul 6, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> And Danish daggers. I have a small ancient prismatic blade from Europe that somebody sent me from Germany a long time ago. It's one of my most prized possessions.




Can you post a pic?


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## NCHillbilly (Jul 6, 2021)

Thunder Head said:


> Can you post a pic?


If I can remember to take one. It's just a small prismatic microblade.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 23, 2021)

Hey, @Ray357 , we`re still waiting for those pictures of your work..


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 23, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Hey, @Ray357 , we`re still waiting for those pictures of your work..


He must be working on a giant Duck River sword.


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## Ray357 (Nov 23, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> He must be working on a giant Duck River sword.


No, an obelisk actually.


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