# Bird dog training help



## deerslayer1421 (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a Boykin spaniel that just turned one year old. I recently decided that I wanted to get into quail hunting this fall, and am in the process of building a flight pen so that I will have a ready supply of birds. My deer land has fields and hedgerows that would be a good place for training and hunting, so I have that part down.

I bought Tom Dokken's Retriever Training and read it cover to cover when I first got Bo and started his training according to the book. So far, he knows sit, stay, here, heel... He is a steady to retrieve and retrieves well on both land and water. I just ordered The Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog (Delmar Smith) and plan to use it to start training for this season. 

My question is, have I done more harm than good by training for strictly retrieves first? Also, I know that Boykins are flushing dogs, but can he be trained to point? I'm not too worried about his drive to hunt because he has a lot natural drive to retrieve and is really eager to please and has already been introduced to feathers. I'm just brand new to quail hunting and dog training and am looking for any information I can get.


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## TailCrackin (Aug 15, 2012)

This comes up all the time and its tough to give a nice answer because dogs like boykins are such incredibly intelligent animals with so much drive that nothing is impossible.

Can you drive a nail with the back side of a socket wrench...yes.  But why not reserve the socket wrench for cranking bolts and go buy a hammer?

Not what most folks want to hear but if I went to the waterfowl forum and asked about how to convert my english pointer into a goose dog I bet I would hear the same thing...get a lab or a boykin.  

Now some dogs can do it all....wirehair, shorhairs, lot of the german type breeds but if you get that boykin to pointing birds then PM me cause I would love to see it.  Seriously.

I believe with an intelligent dog that wants to please, has the drive, and plenty of time/work/patience in the handler anything is possible.  Good luck!


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## JML (Aug 15, 2012)

I've hunted preserve birds with my lab.  The way we do it is that she will sit to flush.  I started this with planted birds and just made sure than when we flushed the bird I gave a hard whistle sit.  I did this over the course of 3 weeks or so before I shot a bird.  From your retriever training, your boykin should be able to sit to whistle.  After several birds flushed this way, your dog should be expecting the whistle on flush.

Quartering the field should be done with the whistle as well.  Cast your dog out and then change directions and give a tweet tweet on your whistle.  Most learn this quickly, especially when you plant a bird or bumper for them to find.


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## Jim P (Aug 15, 2012)

I would say this, keep him as a retriever and use him as a flushing dog for your quail, as long as you can read him when he smells birds, you could have the best of both world's


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## Setter Jax (Aug 16, 2012)

Your Boykin will hunt just fine with the right training.  They are a versatile dog.  I've seen Boykin's blood trail deer in the morning and retrieve ducks or flush pheasant and quail in the afternoon.  They are also great in the dove field. They are a flushing dogs and not a pointing dogs.  Start your yard and field work and watch your pup.  Most will quarter nicely for you in short range.  You can tell when your pup is getting birdy, he will change up his pace and his little tail will  go about 1000 miles a second. He is meant to pounce on his game and flush the bird in the air.  There are some plantation hunt clubs out there that use a Boykin in combo with a pointer.  The pointer finds the birds and the Boykin's or English Cockers  flush and retrieve the bird.  If you have ever seen this combo in action you would want a brace of dogs like that. Buy a couple of books on training a spaniel for upland and have fun!!! .

SJ


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## TailCrackin (Aug 16, 2012)

Jim P said:


> I would say this, keep him as a retriever and use him as a flushing dog for your quail, as long as you can read him when he smells birds, you could have the best of both world's



x2 on this...my post was in reference to the pointing.


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## Setter Jax (Aug 16, 2012)

TailCrackin said:


> x2 on this...my post was in reference to the pointing.



I knew what you were saying. 

I've seen Boykins point, but if you try for AKC hunt quals or trials they will knock points off for pointing, they want to see that flush and pounce. lol

SJ


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## zzweims (Aug 16, 2012)

Sure you can teach your Boykin to point (stop/stand/stay), but why would you want to?  One of the main reasons for having a dog point game, is that it gives the hunter time to reach the dog who hunts out of gun range, before the bird flushes.  Most Boykins hunt within gun range.  Let him flush.  I promise, you and the pup will have a more enjoyable hunt if you encourage him to do what he was bred to do.

When you get your Delmar Smith book, skim/skip through the whoa training for now and focus on what he calls 'Happy Timing.'   Toss a few birds in a field and turn the puppy loose.  Let him have fun.  Let him bump and chase.  Let him figure it out on his own.  Don't shoot now.  Let him get excited first.  After a few 'Happy Time' sessions,  fire a blank or .22 from a distance while he's chasing, then move up to a 410 or 20ga.  

That will be enough training to take him hunting this first season.  You can teach hup now, but unless you are going to compete, I'd let him have a season of hunting under his belt first. 

Have fun.  Boykins are a blast in the birdfield.

Aline


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## deerslayer1421 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. After reading what y'all had to say, it does make sense to let him do what he's bred to do and just let him flush birds. Another question though: when I start the field training, if he does not work close enough to me, how do I correct that? Would I keep him on a check cord for a while to get him used to working closer?


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## gspowner (Aug 22, 2012)

A check cord is what I always revert back too in field training because that is where I start the dog from originally. I don't think you hurt anything at all by starting him with retreiver training. Good bred dogs can do both, I have two buddies that I took their duck dogs on their first time on a loaded quail field and they were flawless flushing. The reason being is it is 95 % genetics after he is seasoned and learns that you are guiding him where to hunt he will stay close to you while hunting. To reenforce this just put him on alot of birds and build confidence in him that you know which general area the birds are in and that he can't hunt on his on lol


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## gspowner (Aug 22, 2012)

Then when you get that fancy flight pen built just put him in there with a muzzel with the birds. This makes him bird crazy, and it will make your birds real skiddish and fly like the devil. I love having a flight pen when I have a young dog that flushes (don't use it on a pointing dog you will probably get a flagger lol)


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