# WRD says all licenses to be sold on the net



## Toffy (Feb 1, 2008)

Sportsmen will be paying an additional $2.75 to purchase hunting and fishing license by this time next year.

GON has learned that DNR has signed a contract with Central Bank to route all license and boat registration through the internet and through the sole seller of Georgia Hunting and fishing licenses and boat registration, Central Bank. A sportsman buyng a license will be charged a user fee in addition to the price of the licese. The user fee will be $2.75 per transaction the first two years. $2.50 each year thereafter paid to Central Bank.

The result of this change to a single vendor system is that all current license sellers in Georgia are going to be terminated by the state. 

Central Bank will offer a portion if these vendors — current estimates are 20 percent — an opportunity to sell license at the counter, but an estimated 80 pecent will not be offered the opportunity to sell licenses.

The state maintains that this new charge is not a license increase because none of the increase is paid to the state. Rather it is a user fee, similar to a fee paid by Parks users.

This change eliminates the need for seven WRD positions in license sales and close to a quarter of a million dollars of operating funds to run the system. These funds and the seven postions will be used in game management and fisheries rather than license sales.

The fee charged is for each transaction, not for each license purchased. For instance, if a fishing license and a trout stamp are purchased at the same time, that is only one transaction.

This change is expected to occur sometime late next fall.


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## Black Crowes (Feb 1, 2008)

Absolutely Ludicrious !!!


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## Darkhorse (Feb 1, 2008)

So my cash money is no longer any good? I assume all payment must be in the form of plastic?


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## Darkhorse (Feb 1, 2008)

Just thought of something else. What if I buy a license and a big game license to hunt turkeys. Then 7 months later I need a Primitive weapons or archery permit. Will I be charged $2.75 for "each" license purchase?


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## TANMAN (Feb 1, 2008)

There better not be a charge to get a harvest record for a lifetime license holder!


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## Randy (Feb 1, 2008)

There are some good and some bad things associated with this change.  We have been discussing this on some the sites for a few days now.

A little more info from another site:

Yes, it was in fact the division's desire and primary recommendation to have purchased a system and keep it in house. That being said, being a division, as presumably we can all appreciate, they don't get to make the final call on such 7 plus figure expenditures. The combined decision reached by the Commissioner and potentially the executive branch was the current privitization option now unfolding. Exactly WHY it was reached we can theorize about but it may be as simple as it was the most likely to pass budget muster or yes, something more nefarious. I leave those type guesses to those that have been closer to the fire. Moving on.... It is the assumption (and I hope not just far fletched hope) that the freed up dollars (approx. $600k) will be retained and materialize, as they are in the current proposed budget, in the very visible form of 7 new field personnel (agents, techs whatever). Assuming that happens, hopefully we can all agree that is at least one positive. If it does not, then yes, it's bad. (Thankfully there are more net gains in the budget but these 7 are directly related to this issue.) 
Also, regarding the $2.75 increase, please note SB382.
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/fulltext/sb382.htm
Relevant language copied below...
(10) Any resident or nonresident who purchases any hunting, fishing, hunting/fishing, or sportsman license, or any combination thereof, within 30 days prior to the expiration date of such license or combination of licenses held by him or her shall receive a $2.75 reduction of the combined fee for all annual licenses purchased in a single transaction during such period."

If you walk that through a few scenarios of folks who wait a few months to buy a license after expiration or skip a year etc., being motivated to keep their licenses current, then that is MORE revenue (ala federal) for Georgia. 

So, yes perhaps it's not's everyone's first choice and we are free to react and take action (and I hope we would) as we so deduce but at the end of the day, like all things we should make the best of the eventual outcome and hopefully GUIDE IT. 

If you believe SB382 to be worthy, make a call or shoot an eMail! If you have a better idea, take the same action. The contract is signed with Central Bank so I doubt the horse can be coralled but WHO PAYS FOR IT can certainly be impacted. 

Finally, I would like to once again mention that no matter who I have ever spoken with in any office under WRD has been nothing but professional, courteous, and genuinely interested in hearing from and doing what is best for the CONCERNED outdoorsmen & women in this state. Do not hesistate to be heard or ask questions. You might be pleasantly surprised how appreciative they are to know folks actually care!


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## Randy (Feb 1, 2008)

You can get more information by watching this.  Long but interesting: click on the video from 01/29/08

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/house/Committees/gameFishParks/gameArchives.htm


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## GA DAWG (Feb 1, 2008)

Darkhorse said:


> So my cash money is no longer any good? I assume all payment must be in the form of plastic?


 Good question.. Not everyone has plastic...


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## Randy (Feb 1, 2008)

It's change and everybody hates that.


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## robertyb (Feb 1, 2008)

Not in the least bit surprising to me. Don't forget, they already did computer only for draw hunts and they have had online sales of licenses available for several years.

I am glad I got a lifetime license


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## whitworth (Feb 1, 2008)

*TANMAN*

Similar thoughts, then I read your post.  

Maybe, the state will start to list purchasers and their credit card information on their internet site.  

Never understood why the state would list the quota hunts, the individual, and the probable day not to find him home.


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## Nicodemus (Feb 1, 2008)

And what about folks that don`t have computers? Or credit cards? Or don`t do busines like that over the computer? Sometimes I wonder about some of the things folks do.  

If my cash money is no good, you can bet your boots that I WILL NOT do business with that particular store.


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## Randy (Feb 1, 2008)

nicodemus said:


> And what about folks that don`t have computers? Or credit cards? Or don`t do busines like that over the computer? Sometimes I wonder about some of the things folks do.
> 
> If my cash money is no good, you can bet your boots that I WILL NOT do business with that particular store.


I hate to inform you and it may not happen in your lifetime, but this is the way it will be in the near future for everything.  The Bible even says so.  This is the begining of the MARK!  But we're off topic here.


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## potsticker (Feb 1, 2008)

I guess if u dont have a puter, you hunt for free!


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## Randy (Feb 1, 2008)

BTW, it's not too late for the sportsmen in the state to get up in arms and demand a different system.  But I suggest we really educate ourselves in what this really means first.  I do not believe it is, as in the original post "only sold on the net!"   Yes there may be more limited places to get them but since most of the sportsmen get their corn from wally world it might not be a big deal to pick up your liscense there when getting the corn.


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## robertyb (Feb 1, 2008)

nicodemus said:


> And what about folks that don`t have computers? Or credit cards? Or don`t do busines like that over the computer? Sometimes I wonder about some of the things folks do.
> 
> If my cash money is no good, you can bet your boots that I WILL NOT do business with that particular store.



Nick,

I feel your pain.

Did you apply for a quota hunt this year? It was computer only. I know a lot of folks that have to go use the puters at the library.


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## robertyb (Feb 1, 2008)

Randy said:


> BTW, it's not too late for the sportsmen in the state to get up in arms and demand a different system.  But I suggest we really educate ourselves in what this really means first.  I do not believe it is, as in the original post "only sold on the net!"   Yes there may be more limited places to get them but since most of the sportsmen get their corn from wally world it might not be a big deal to pick up your liscense there when getting the corn.



Wally World corn is 40 lbs. a bag, feedstore is 50 lbs. a bag at same price. I just got back.

Any idea how they will distribute the deer harvest tags as they are free?


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## Todd E (Feb 1, 2008)

I haven't researched anything at all on this.

My only concern is.............

if there is money saved by going this route, do we really believe that the money saved will be spent where it should be?

That is what I doubt will happen. It will get spent some where else and it won't be for sportsmen and sportswomen.......that's my guess.


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## Toffy (Feb 1, 2008)

*Randy's doubt aside*

Randy's doubts aside. all transactions at the stated price will be via the internet.

That said, about 20 percent of the current places where you can purchase a license over the counter may continue to offer the service. But the clerk will be typing in the information into the internet, rather than the purchaser typing it in.

Additionally, licenses will be sold over the phone but the price jumps to $4 the first year, $4.50 the second year and $5.00 after the second year.

Hard to use cash over the phone.


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## GA DAWG (Feb 1, 2008)

Why cant we up the lic fees the same amount. Do away with this STUPID thing and let those 7 people keep their jobs!!!!!!!!! Idiots I tell ya.Pure and simple..


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Feb 1, 2008)

robertyb said:


> Wally World corn is 40 lbs. a bag, feedstore is 50 lbs. a bag at same price. I just got back.
> 
> Any idea how they will distribute the deer harvest tags as they are free?



You can print them from the website. That's what I did this year. Stinks to print em on regular paper though


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## wildplaces (Feb 1, 2008)

Networker said:


> That said, about 20 percent of the current places where you can purchase a license over the counter may continue to offer the service.
> 
> Hard to use cash over the phone.



Referrring back to your original post, that would be an estimated 20 percent.  There is no way to tell at this point how many businesses would continue to sell licenses.

It will be rather easy to use cash at the places that continue to sell licenses and you can bet that places like Walmart and the DNR offices will be on board, which is where a large portion of the hunting population gets their licenses.

Of course, they may also have to add their own service charge for the convenince.

What you failed to inform everyone of is the fact that keeping the current system is not an option.  It is obsolete and you can not even replace a machine if it breaks down.  The state HAS to go to a new system.

Another system like the current one -- that would also be obsolete in 10 years (which is how long we have had the current system) -- would cost umpteen hundred thousand dollars that the state does not have.  This is how it has to happen.  I think everyone that figured this out where we could actually have more employees working for the wildlife resources that we love did a good job and have more foresight than I do.

We will pay more -- but we will get more -- more employees working for sportsmen.  

In addition, has anyone mentioned that the new system will not allow a poacher from an interstate violator compact state to purchase a license in GA?  Sounds like a good use of technology to me.  I don't want to be in the woods with those people.

The new system will also be used to register boats and evryone knows that it cannot be worse than what we have now for boat registration.


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Feb 3, 2008)

I purchased a lifetime license with the understanding that I would never again have to come out of pocket for a hunting/fishing license in the state of GA.  If I have to pay a $2.75 service charge to get my deer harvest record and my HIP permit, you better believe I'm gonna be ticked.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 3, 2008)

We've been discussing this in the Political Forum since the day of the House Committee meeting on 1/29.

Here is a cut and paste of the original post and link to that thread:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=169420

Our hunting and fishing license fees have been raised effective in just a few short months by $2.75 to $5.00 for each purchase.

Gov. Perdue, along with the Commissioner of DNR have turned down the recommendation of WRD that they purchase a new system for license distribution and opted to out source the job. The new private sector vendor will charge the sportsman/woman a surcharge for each license transaction. 

In short, we pay more and WRD likely does not get the benefit.

Also, as a result many small license vendors such as your local bait shop or sporting goods dealers will no longer be allowed to sell licenses. The decision on who may or may not sell licenses is being left up to Central Bank, the new vendor. It appears they will primarily look to big stores such as Walmart, passing on less profitable mom and pop stores.

Go to the link below to watch a presentation of the new system by WRD Director and Asst. Director to the House Game & Fish Committee. You may want to fast forward to 16:30 to get to the point where the info on the license presentation begins.

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2...meArchives.htm


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## whitworth (Feb 3, 2008)

*Pennsylvania hunters*

Some are complaining too.   Going to use the same company, I believe.  A lot of those folks, hold a couple of nickels together real tight, between their thumb and index finger.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 3, 2008)

Whitworth, with an increase of more than $2.2 million annually to sportsmen, this ain't about nickels.


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## GA DAWG (Feb 3, 2008)

2.2 million!!!!!!!! My gosh. The state has lost its mind. WHY is our current system outdated? Heck we have less hunters now than 10 years ago.If it aint broke dont fix it.


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## wildplaces (Feb 3, 2008)

GA DAWG said:


> WHY is our current system outdated?



Because technology has changed.  


It is the same reason that you do not see the big clunky phones and bag phones that you saw when cellular technology came out.


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## Joe r (Feb 3, 2008)

I Herd Around The Campfire The Gamewardins HAD No Gas Money.will This Help Get Them A Little Gas?


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 3, 2008)

Joe r said:


> I Herd Around The Campfire The Gamewardins HAD No Gas Money.will This Help Get Them A Little Gas?



No. 

None of the added fee stays in Georgia. It all goes to Central Bank of Missouri.


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## wildplaces (Feb 4, 2008)

Joe r said:


> I Herd Around The Campfire The Gamewardins HAD No Gas Money.will This Help Get Them A Little Gas?




But it will keep tham from having to spend what gas money they do have on a new license system.


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## Oldstick (Feb 4, 2008)

That's stupid and this is my official protest.  I still want the compact version printed on waterproof paper.  And I do not want to pay some contractor $3 to do the governments job.


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## JerryC (Feb 4, 2008)

My biggest problem with this is that you have to print your license out on regular paper. Regular paper just doesn't hold up the way the green licenses do.

And it is not the same laminating plain paper, because then it doesn't fold up right.

It will probably cut down on impulse license purchases too, if only 20% of the license outlets remain. -JerryC


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## Snakeman (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't buy anything "on line". 

I guess I won't be buying any more hunting/fishing licenses after this year.

The Snakeman


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 4, 2008)

Here is a link to the AJC's Outdoor writers blog on this subject. He wrote an article that ran in the AJC on 1/30.

You may leave comments at this site as well.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/s...008/02/01/need_a_license_expect_to_pay_m.html


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## Oldstick (Feb 4, 2008)

I admit I may be a little biased on a topic like this, since I work for Uncle Sam.

And I know there are plenty of examples of government agencies dealing with the public that are as sorry as the day is long, especially as the state level.  But the WRD/DNR is definitely not one of those.  

For every example of poor service I can come up with a dozen examples where a perfectly well run government function was contracted out to "save money".  In many cases, they were taken over by some bidder that didn't have a proper handle on who the customers were and there real needs and interests.  Customer service went downhill and money may or may not have been saved depending on who was doing the calculating.  

In the case above, it is plain to see the customer's out of pocket cost is going up.

In fairness though, when I first read this, I thought it said ALL retail outlets would close, which sounds like may not be the case.


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## huntfish (Feb 4, 2008)

robertyb said:


> Not in the least bit surprising to me. Don't forget, they already did computer only for draw hunts and they have had online sales of licenses available for several years.
> 
> I am glad I got a lifetime license



How are you (me) going to get your tags?


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## Randy (Feb 4, 2008)

greers57 said:


> In fairness though, when I first read this, I thought it said ALL retail outlets would close, which sounds like may not be the case.



It did.  That was a little bit of a lie.  It has since been changed since someone knew enough to call the source on his half truths.  Of course you can't do it with the editorials but that is another subject.


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## merc123 (Feb 4, 2008)

I "make" my own deer harvest tags, so when I get my lifetime license I won't need to pay another $2.75/transaction to get them...


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## potsticker (Feb 4, 2008)

Your dreaming pilgrim. The govmt is goint to make you jump hoops to get permission to hunt your own land. The handling fee will be rebaited back to the general assembly where it will be parked in front of 5 fatherless section 8 housing, pre crack selling, younguns!


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## NOYDB (Feb 4, 2008)

Is it just me that finds it amusing that people sit in front of a computer complaining about doing transactions online?

And for laminating your printed licence: http://www.shopbrodart.com/shop/cb/...&attvalueid=2974&attid=1709#prodGrid_bookmark

FYI, Librarians laminate the crap out of stuff. Their supply stores have the best prices. Also lots of useful "stuff".


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## NOYDB (Feb 5, 2008)

Times change.

You can still do things the manual way, but that's your problem to figure out how. The rest of the world doesn't have to stop for your nostalgia or obstinacy. 

I also find it amusing that people that will get up at 3:00 am drive hours to get to a hunting spot in 30 degree weather to sit for hours in the hope that something will happen. Can't come up with the energy to procure a hunting license. Or learn how to do so online, or ask a friend to spend the five minutes to help them do it (no friends, I guess).

Then act like there's some virtue in their unwillingness or inability to deal with current reality.

And if $2.75 is going to break the bank for buying a hunting licence. They don't need to be hunting, they need to be working a second job until they can improve their situation. And yes, I've been there, so I did that. Worked three jobs at one point until I could get to a better situation.

Get a checking account with a debit card. You don't even have to use it as your main account. Just get one for when you need it. You can still stuff money under your matress or in mason jars if that's what suits ya.

And a newsflash, get used to more fees and surcharges. Government has so overpromised what it is going to pay for in terms of pensions and benefits that they are already truly bankrupt. They are going to try to gouge you for money at every transaction you make.


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## basslure (Feb 5, 2008)

For lifetime lic. holders the tags will be free, for people without credit cards the lic. will be sold at some DNR offices. I'm just going to buy the sportsman so its only a one time fee. by the way georgia still has some of the cheapest licenses even with this fee added


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## Oldstick (Feb 5, 2008)

Now some of ya'll are jumping to conclusions.

Conducting business online is not the issue, most of the folks on here, including me do that almost every day.  It is just that this represents a failure (IMO) to recognize the desires of a large segment of the license buying public, their customers.  A very large number of folks have valid reasons for preferring the version you get at retail outlets.

Are ya'll trying to suggest "ignore significant and reasonable customer desires" is a successful way to operate a business entity?


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## NOYDB (Feb 5, 2008)

greers57 said:


> Now some of ya'll are jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Conducting business online is not the issue, most of the folks on here, including me do that almost every day.  It is just that this represents a failure (IMO) to recognize the desires of a large segment of the license buying public, their customers.  A very large number of folks have valid reasons for preferring the version you get at retail outlets.
> 
> Are ya'll trying to suggest "ignore significant and reasonable customer desires" is a successful way to operate a business entity?



Been to a full service gas station lately? There's may be a few left.

Sure there are people that would still like that service. But as usual in these cases, there aren't that many of them, and most important, they aren't willing to pay extra for the service. 

As to reasons for the "old"way? Those resistant to change always have reasons. But I can't think of a valid one. 

The world changes, change with it.


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## Snakeman (Feb 5, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Is it just me that finds it amusing that people sit in front of a computer complaining about doing transactions online?


There's a difference between sitting in front of a computer, and putting financial information into/onto the world wide web.

MYODB

The Snakeman


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## Milkman (Feb 5, 2008)

Some interesting opinions being shared here, good reading.

I was as reluctant to become computer active as anyone has ever been. 
But I read something one day about 15-20 years ago that made me think about it 
It said something like "Embrace technology or be left behind" I started embracing it.

Im still not up to snuff on all of it but, use the internet for purchases,  use my check card 50 times more than I write a check, and hardly ever have more than $5-$10 cash in my pocket. Lord knows life as I know it wouldnt exist without my cell phone. Online is a good way to meet new people too.  Technology is good IMO

Im gonna keep hunting long as I can walk, then I hope someone can push or pull me to the woods, and I will be still be buying a license  by what ever method they are being sold........... I hope.


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## Oldstick (Feb 5, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Been to a full service gas station lately? There's may be a few left.
> 
> Sure there are people that would still like that service. But as usual in these cases, there aren't that many of them, and most important, they aren't willing to pay extra for the service.
> 
> ...



Well there is a big difference if a change is driven by consumer demand or marketplace forces.  In the example of gas stations there was consumer demand and competition for lower fuel costs that drove it.

In this case we are not talking about a new technology, we are talking about hunting licenses, a document we are required to have in our possession while outdoors.  If it is truly demand driving this change, then I stand corrected, but I suspect there would be at least half of the license purchasers resistant to it.  And it seems like they are already admitting the driver is "cost savings" to the govt.


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## TANMAN (Feb 5, 2008)

*We take every card but American Express!*



huntfish said:


> How are you (me) going to get your tags?




Just record your Deer Harvest on a dollar bill!  Obviously we must have plenty of them in our wallets according to some of the posts! Then if you accidentally use that dollar bill at a store you get to start all over again on your Deer Harvest!  It's like you never harvested any deer! This will be especially useful when you tag out early in the season! Sweet! 

Oh, I did send the DNR an email in regards to my concern for Lifetime License holders obtaining a Deer Harvest record without a fee and they have yet to reply!


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## NOYDB (Feb 5, 2008)

Snakeman said:


> There's a difference between sitting in front of a computer, and putting financial information into/onto the world wide web.
> 
> MYODB
> 
> The Snakeman



Go to the bank of your choice. Open a personal checking account with whatever their minimum deposit is. Get your debit/check card. Put it in your sock drawer. Once a year buy your license on line. Make a deposit to bring the pot right. You can still do everything else how ever it suits you.

OR

You could just get with the program and quit listening to all the cassandras about how if you go online your life will be destroyed. Read up on what to do to minimize your risk and you will be safer than carrying cash.


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## Sylvan (Feb 5, 2008)

> It is the assumption (and I hope not just far fletched hope) that the freed up dollars (approx. $600k) will be retained and materialize, as they are in the current proposed budget, in the very visible form of 7 new field personnel



 I almost be willing to bet the DNR gets a budget cut for that same amount  the next time the budget is revised.


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## Ricochet (Feb 5, 2008)

Jeff Young said:


> No.
> 
> None of the added fee stays in Georgia. It all goes to Central Bank of Missouri.



What?  At least make these funds benefit a bank in Georgia!  BTW, I don't like the idea having to pay extra to get my license.  If this a high-tech answer to "improve" our system...shouldn't it cost the same or less.  In other words, why do we have to foot the bill for this change?


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## wildplaces (Feb 5, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Times change.
> 
> You can still do things the manual way, but that's your problem to figure out how. The rest of the world doesn't have to stop for your nostalgia or obstinacy.
> 
> ...



It looks as though you have stolen my brain.


Please continue to speak for me since I cannot put it into words as well as you have.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 5, 2008)

Ricochet said:


> What?  At least make these funds benefit a bank in Georgia!  BTW, I don't like the idea having to pay extra to get my license.  If this a high-tech answer to "improve" our system...shouldn't it cost the same or less.  In other words, why do we have to foot the bill for this change?



Because the DNR Commissioner and the Executive decided you should!

What? You didn't get advance notice that this was being considered? You are not alone!

It's a effectively a $2.2 million plus tax without legislative over sight.

Evidently a few here have no problem with the lack of voice in the matter.


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## Ricochet (Feb 5, 2008)

Jeff Young said:


> Because the DNR Commissioner and the Executive decided you should!
> 
> What? You didn't get advance notice that this was being considered? You are not alone!
> 
> ...



Well put, this is not cool!  I guess I will never understand why some think it is OK for government or their agencies to levy more fees & taxes on us unchecked/unopposed.  They must have money to burn...(newsflash) no matter how small it may be, it  adds up over time!


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## NOYDB (Feb 6, 2008)

Ricochet said:


> Well put, this is not cool!  I guess I will never understand why some think it is OK for government or their agencies to levy more fees & taxes on us unchecked/unopposed.  They must have money to burn...(newsflash) no matter how small it may be, it  adds up over time!



Don't know that anyone said it was OK. Just that it's reality deal with it.

This isn't the first or last. All the various levels of government have over-commited to entitlements, employee pensions and health care. All "discretionary" spending is going to be squeezed out and you are going to see more pay as you go type fees. 

As to online transactions, also get used to it. It's cost effective and if our regulators weren't so bought off we'd be even further along. You'll be buying your license with your cell phone soon enough.


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## NOYDB (Feb 6, 2008)

Woodswalker said:


> since we've chosen to fully embrace technology, i wonder why we can't step even further out on the limb and not be troubled by pesky paperwork at all?
> 
> i mean, once we pay by phone, we could receive a code number, etc., and use that as our "authorized" acceptance to hunt.
> 
> the rangers when they checked us, could simply verify that number with their handheld computer device. it'd be real simple, and perhaps save some paper?  whatdaya think, this is the post-modern world afterall, and a lot of posters are challenging us to keep up.



Coming to a cell phone near you.


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## Ricochet (Feb 6, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Don't know that anyone said it was OK. Just that it's reality deal with it.
> 
> This isn't the first or last. All the various levels of government have over-commited to entitlements, employee pensions and health care. All "discretionary" spending is going to be squeezed out and you are going to see more pay as you go type fees.
> 
> As to online transactions, also get used to it. It's cost effective and if our regulators weren't so bought off we'd be even further along. You'll be buying your license with your cell phone soon enough.



Well, I just don't think we should take it in the edit wallet so easily.  I would be fine with it, if it did not cost more...last time I checked technology is supposed to reduce a given burden not increase it.


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## 60Grit (Feb 6, 2008)

It is a plot with symbiotic effects.

You go with a contractor at inflated fees, after two or three years, with further micro incremental increases, you announce that the public will be better served by the State taking charge of the licensure process again.

The catch here, the State doesn't reduce the cost of the contractor back out of the fees, and all the little sheeple just go along with it, and take it in the back side like good little hunters and fishermen.....


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## Randy (Feb 6, 2008)

60Grit said:


> It is a plot with symbiotic effects.
> 
> You go with a contractor at inflated fees, after two or three years, with further micro incremental increases, you announce that the public will be better served by the State taking charge of the licensure process again.
> 
> The catch here, the State doesn't reduce the cost of the contractor back out of the fees, and all the little sheeple just go along with it, and take it in the back side like good little hunters and fishermen.....


I'd be happy to accept that.  I have alwasy said our fees were way too low.


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## 60Grit (Feb 6, 2008)

I'll be sure to let Sonny know that you'll be picking up the slack for all of us hunters that disagree with you.


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## Son (Feb 6, 2008)

Usually this type thing means jobs lost somewhere.
And big business connections makes more money.
"Nothing stays the same and only the rocks live forever" (Old Indian saying)
Over 65, glad I'm educated and computer knowledgable. But think of the many who are not. They'll certainly have to recruit somebody to help em through this.


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## Oldstick (Feb 6, 2008)

Let me put it this way.

I've spent years developing and testing safety critical software written in languages 99.9% have never even heard of.  

And if I am required to carry it with me, I still would like a license that is compact and durable without me having to buy office supplies and make it myself.

That goes for my drivers license too, in case they get any ideas about that.

As far as cost increase I will pay most any increase IF it goes directly to the DNR budget to benefit the outdoors.


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## Twenty five ought six (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't mind the fee if it would benefit Georgia, and create Georgia jobs. 

I share the skepticism about the freed up money staying in the DNR budget.

I'm not convinced that there isn't some off the shelf systems that would work.


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## Southernhoundhunter (Feb 6, 2008)

if only 20% of stores that sold licenses are able to sell them, doesn't mean that some of these stores lose money. If I go into the place where i usually buy my license. It's a gas station with fishing and hunting stuff. I usually don't stop in there very much. I walk in and see the boxes of buckshot on the shelf, bream busters in the corner, shirts and hats and such. I'll usually walk out of there with 2 or 3 boxes of buckshot, a shirt with the store name, usually it's still warm so i'll buy a few dollars worth of corks or a few baits. I usually walk out of there with at least $40 worth of stuff. Add to that I'll probably fill my truck up there and that's at least $60 at the least. I also will probably buy some drinks or snacks. some folks might walk in and see one of the few guns they have and make an impulse purchas. On average they will probably profit $10-$25. I know that might not seem like much but say that there are 50 people that go through the same scenario i just mentioned a year, roughly same amount of money maybe a little more maybe a little less. that could add up to over $1000 dollars very quickly. To some that might not be a lot but to the owner of this small station that is a pretty good bit. It might mean the difference whether they can afford to pay their bills or not. 
            I don't know how many of ya'll buy ya'll's license in a little country store, but i surely know that i want to buy mine there and not from a big name chain store


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## win280 (Feb 7, 2008)

Suppose this is the first"Outsourcing to save money by our state gov"t". Is drivers licence next. What about the people that live on a very low fixed income,disabled, grandpaw, out of work, everybody that isn't city rich. These are the people this will effect the most. Walmarts are around every corner in the big city. Not in the rest of georgia. Try asking about internet access in the county you hunt in and see the great praise they give ther one and only internet provider.(at a larger cost that Atlanta)The issue here is that one state employee decided to spend my hard earned money without checking with me first.


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## NOYDB (Feb 7, 2008)

Don't confuse fairness with reality.

Times change and even grandpa has to deal with it.

Seen any hitching posts in town lately?


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## win280 (Feb 7, 2008)

Reality is: 455,480  deer hunting licence sold in 2000 . 361605 sold in 2007,21% drop in hunting licence(not counting fishing,trapping)
@ 2.75 ea :total to bank:$994,413.75 . 7  WRD employees@ 75,000 with benefits+$250,000 computer support=$565,000. Assuming fishing and hunting Transaction total to be 350,000 . total hunting and fishing licence sold via bank @2.75 ea: $962,500.00
This  costs the licence holders $398,500 hard Dollars with less WRD employees. Solution : raise hunting licence By $2.75 ea across the board put that extra $398,500 toward a new state computer system. It would be paid for in 6 years. And all the money stays in the state without losing the 7 WRD office personnel.?????????


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 7, 2008)

win280 said:


> Reality is: 455,480  deer hunting licence sold in 2000 . 361605 sold in 2007,21% drop in hunting licence(not counting fishing,trapping)
> @ 2.75 ea :total to bank:$994,413.75 . 7  WRD employees@ 75,000 with benefits+$250,000 computer support=$565,000. Assuming fishing and hunting Transaction total to be 350,000 . total hunting and fishing licence sold via bank @2.75 ea: $962,500.00
> This  costs the licence holders $398,500 hard Dollars with less WRD employees. Solution : raise hunting licence By $2.75 ea across the board put that extra $398,500 toward a new state computer system. It would be paid for in 6 years. And all the money stays in the state without losing the 7 WRD office personnel.?????????



You're all over it!

Let's make it even simpler!

WRD says that they have about 800,000 license/boat registrations annually. If you use the least expensive fee of $2.75 X 800,000 = $2,200,000 on the fast track out of Georgia!

Of course the telephone fees and boat registration fees are considerable higher.

WRD already had the staff in place. While the equipment purchase to upgrade to the same machines that Central Bank would use would be approximately $4 million. Making the purchase via Bonds would result in very little outlay by the state. Even without the Bond method, they would be in the black in 2 years, own the system and keeping the fee going forward.

They could also continue to choose the outlets for these licenses and we would not lose 80% of our options.

Why was this decision made? 

Why was this decision made without legislative oversight?


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## win280 (Feb 8, 2008)

DNR director is appointed by the Governor and answers only to him.,With 10% budget cuts ordered by the Governor. DNR reduces part of the budget on paper.Makes the citizens pay more, send money out of state. Makes perfect Government sense to me.
P.S. to NOYDB And I do have a hitching post in my yard ! I don't know what fairness has to do with this issue. This issue is about 1 Gov't official making decisions without consulting the public that it affects.
At the very least a bank should have been considered within the state of Georgia. But I don't have that information . Maybe you can shed some light for the people. Was any other bank considered for this program? How long was this issue being considered? Did the DNR board put their stamp of approval on this? Or was this decision made solely by the director.


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## NOYDB (Feb 8, 2008)

win280 said:


> DNR director is appointed by the Governor and answers only to him.,With 10% budget cuts ordered by the Governor. DNR reduces part of the budget on paper.Makes the citizens pay more, send money out of state. Makes perfect Government sense to me.
> P.S. to NOYDB And I do have a hitching post in my yard ! <font color=red>Great! But grandpa has still had to upgrade from his buggy to a fliver. And if he lives long enough there's other changes he'll have to make too.</font>I don't know what fairness has to do with this issue. <font color=red> Exactly, thank you. Nothing, life and certainly govmt is not fair.</font> This issue is about 1 Gov't official making decisions without consulting the public that it affects.<font color=red>Like that's new</font>
> At the very least a bank should have been considered within the state of Georgia. But I don't have that information . Maybe you can shed some light for the people. <font color=red>They don't consult me either</font> Was any other bank considered for this program? How long was this issue being considered? Did the DNR board put their stamp of approval on this? Or was this decision made solely by the director.



Looks like you have a lot of research to do.

I'm not the one worried about it. I like doing things online. And I expect fees, get used to them, for the reasons stated before.

As to local banks???????? What local banks? Any big enough to handle the contract are going to be owned by someone from elsewheres anyways.

Much ado over $2.75 a year.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 11, 2008)

Y'all should have seen the expressions on the faces of the good folks that attended the Great Outdoor Show this weekend when they got word of this new fee!

Those folks down there don't seem to love their "Native Son" as much as they did a couple of years ago.

I tried to explain to them that this came to them from the DNR Commissioner's office but they weren't buyin' none of it!


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## win280 (Feb 11, 2008)

I called DNR today.
Here is an update.
The current computer system is 10 years old.

Veriphone who repairs the terminals at the retail outlet does not repair the devices anymore.
DNR has some of these in reserve but will need these as the terminals break down during the upcoming year.Thus the reason for fewer retail outlets that have low licence sales.
The current system has no way to verify duplicate licence,revokations,violations.(So you can have a suspended lic. and still buy a lic.)
The new system is a real time system that updates immediately instead of the once a week updates like the current system 
Currently the retailer charges a fee for the transaction.It does not show up as a separate fee.(.60  to 1.25)
We will buy licence in 3 ways online. walkin(wally world)
or telephone. Fees are 2.75 for the online and walkin
4.00 for the phone.
DNR will lose 7 positions in the office,However they say that the 7 office positions  should be replaced by 7 field personnel.
This should be in place around Oct-Dec 2008.
Senate Bill 382 would eliminate this fee IF you purchase
a new licence before your current licence expires.
There is no fee for lifetime licence holders to get your deer harvest tags.
Only fees would be on pay as you go licence sales.

Central Bank supports 20 states with the online licence sales. They were awarded the contract based on price and
prior history with other states.
Hope this helps clear up some questions as it did for me.


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## Twenty five ought six (Feb 11, 2008)

> Any big enough to handle the contract are going to be owned by someone from elsewheres anyways.



TSYS, which was spun off from Synovus, is the largest third party credit card clearing house in the world.  Somehow, I just suspect that they could have handled it if given the chance.



> DNR will lose 7 positions in the office,However they say that the 7 office positions should be replaced by 7 field personnel.



Want to bet that happens?


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 11, 2008)

win280,

We already knew all of that.

We also know that WRD employees will not complain about what has happened here. They can not openly share their feelings concerning these things. (Disclaimer: None of of them have privately shared their personal feeling with me either).

WRD made a proposal to purchase new equipment and keep the sales in house. The proposal did not include any fee increases for Georgia Sportsmen/women. It did provide the exact same level of service EXCEPT that we would not lose the bottom 80% of license sellers.

An effort to cut the size of State Government was made. In this case, it was made on the backs of the hunters and fishermen of Georgia to the tune of approximately $3.3 million per year! It also cost the "mom & pop" bait and tackle shops throughout Georgia a key device in drawing customers.

Also, this decision was made at the executive level and by-passed the legislature which means that the people of the state had no say in paying this new tax. This equals "taxation without representation". 

Some of you may remember from your history books about a little dust up we had with England over this sort of thing a while back. Of course times have changed, I suppose. We've grown to enjoy paying more for less.


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## virgil (Feb 11, 2008)

*how do you spell   IDIOTS ?*

just like gwinnett county. next year every homeowner will be told by the county who will be picking up their garbage. of course for a fee that the county gets. the trash bill and the fee will be now on my property tax bill. i really dont care who picks up my trash but i would like to have a choice and why is the county getting involved? people what is this world coming to? please get out and vote or all our rights will be given to the government!!!


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## deerman1 (Feb 11, 2008)

Interesting opinions. If most people would find out the facts before getting mad then they would be better off. Yes the DNR is going to a new license system. Yes the license will have $2.75 added to it. This is for each transaction. If you buy a fishing license and trout license at two different times, you will pay the fee two times. However their current system is out dated and cannot even be repaired. They have to do something. They cannot use the current system any longer. Many states have this same bank for licenses. If you watch the link provided in some posts above you would see that license will still be sold in stores. Not all stores. Some stores only sell a few a year anyway. They probably will get left out. If your store takes cash then you can buy them with cash.


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## Twenty five ought six (Feb 11, 2008)

> Many states have this same bank for licenses.



Which states?

Is there a list of states and the fees that are assessed.

I don't understand why I can go to an ATM in East Jesus, Texas, and withdraw a $100.00 for a fee of maybe $1.50, but to RE-register the boat I've registered for the last 15 years costs $8.00.

That ATM transaction has all of the safeguards and more that this new deal does.


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## deerman1 (Feb 11, 2008)

25-06 I'm not sure which states these are but I do know, there is around 10-15 other states. Didn't hear the state names just numbers. 

As for the boat reg. I don't know that. The same thing goes for the taxes on my truck every year. I paid sales tax for it.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 11, 2008)

deerman1,

I for one, did get the facts.

Yes, the system needs to be replaced. 

Yes, they had to do something.

No, they did not have to out source the job.

No, they did not have to increase our fees by $3.3 million per year.

No, the Central Bank of Missouri does not service 10-15 states. It is 20.

No, that does not make one bit of difference when it comes to making the right decision for Georgia.

Yes, some stores will be able to still sell licenses.

No, 80% of them will not have that right despite years of service for us. They lose that income and draw power simply because they are rural small businesses.

No, you did not pay a private enterprise in Missouri $8 for the right to purchase your truck tag last year though it is clear to see that you would not mind paying such a fee.

Personally, I don't follow your reasoning.

Again, these changes could have been made keeping the sales in state and without raising our fees. However, if the fee was going to be raised anyway, why not keep those millions here in Georgia to help losen the budget stranglehold on WRD?


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## K80 (Feb 11, 2008)

I think it needs to stay in house, I will refrain from futher comment on this!!!!

Who can we call or write about this.  Would it do any good if we got a petition up?


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## K80 (Feb 11, 2008)

Also, I know some folks see 2.75 and say big woopy but what I see is sportsmen forced by the government to make a company $$$$$$$$$.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

K80shooter said:


> I think it needs to stay in house, I will refrain from futher comment on this!!!!
> 
> Who can we call or write about this.  Would it do any good if we got a petition up?



K80,

The contract has been signed. There isn't anything I know of that can be done to reverse it. Perhaps it could be brought back in house as the contract expires but you know how making such "after the fact" changes can be.

I do suggest that you write your State Senator, Representative, Lt. Governor and Speaker of the House and let them know that you are not happy that the legislative process was circumvented.

To say nothing and take it silently is to approve of the action. That sends the wrong message.


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## dirtroad (Feb 12, 2008)

Southernhoundhunter said:


> if only 20% of stores that sold licenses are able to sell them, doesn't mean that some of these stores lose money. If I go into the place where i usually buy my license. It's a gas station with fishing and hunting stuff. I usually don't stop in there very much. I walk in and see the boxes of buckshot on the shelf, bream busters in the corner, shirts and hats and such. I'll usually walk out of there with 2 or 3 boxes of buckshot, a shirt with the store name, usually it's still warm so i'll buy a few dollars worth of corks or a few baits. I usually walk out of there with at least $40 worth of stuff. Add to that I'll probably fill my truck up there and that's at least $60 at the least. I also will probably buy some drinks or snacks. some folks might walk in and see one of the few guns they have and make an impulse purchas. On average they will probably profit $10-$25. I know that might not seem like much but say that there are 50 people that go through the same scenario i just mentioned a year, roughly same amount of money maybe a little more maybe a little less. that could add up to over $1000 dollars very quickly. To some that might not be a lot but to the owner of this small station that is a pretty good bit. It might mean the difference whether they can afford to pay their bills or not.
> I don't know how many of ya'll buy ya'll's license in a little country store, but i surely know that i want to buy mine there and not from a big name chain store



I have been selling liscense for 20 years at a little ole hardware store in Royston.You are the exception.Most people buy there liscense and leave.We can't put the fee on credit cards or take checks,YOU DO NOT MAKE ANYTHING(PROFIT)OFF OF LISCENSES.When we(GA) switched to the GOALS system,2 employees had to go to a 
school to run the verifone.We basically do it as a service for our customers.It want hurt my feelings at all,I would much rather pay 2.75 and not have to mess with selling liscense.Just my .02.


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## NOYDB (Feb 12, 2008)

dirtroad said:


> I have been selling liscense for 20 years at a little ole hardware store in Royston.You are the exception.Most people buy there liscense and leave.We can't put the fee on credit cards or take checks,YOU DO NOT MAKE ANYTHING(PROFIT)OFF OF LISCENSES.When we(GA) switched to the GOALS system,2 employees had to go to a
> school to run the verifone.We basically do it as a service for our customers.It want hurt my feelings at all,I would much rather pay 2.75 and not have to mess with selling liscense.Just my .02.



Stop that!

No real world experience allowed.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> Stop that!
> 
> No real world experience allowed.



At the show this weekend I did speak with another couple of small vendors that had the same point of view as dirtroad. I also spoke with several who were spitting mad. One poor fellow got so upset his eyes started sweating.


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## NOYDB (Feb 12, 2008)

Jeff Young said:


> At the show this weekend I did speak with another couple of small vendors that had the same point of view as dirtroad. I also spoke with several who were spitting mad. One poor fellow got so upset his eyes started sweating.



One size does not fit all.

No reason they can't work up a special paper template that will work in any printer. Even the small outlets are using a computer of some kind and could go online and print it out on waterproof paper for their customers. 

Of course there'd be an EXTRA fee for that option..........


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## deerman1 (Feb 12, 2008)

Jeff,
The $2.75 doesn't bother me. I have a lifetime license. I too wish that GA could have gotten the money if license were to be increased. The thing is that this option is not costing the DNR anything. It is costing the sportsmen. This type of license system would be very expensive if done by DNR. This would come out of DNR's budget and they can't pay for this without a license increase. The legislature probably will not pass laws for this. Don't get me wrong, I am not in support of all the small stores loosing their license machines, or the money leaving GA.  I would like to think that DNR did check for companies in GA before sending the money out of state.


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## K80 (Feb 12, 2008)

deerman1 said:


> Jeff,
> The $2.75 doesn't bother me. I have a lifetime license. I too wish that GA could have gotten the money if license were to be increased. The thing is that this option is not costing the DNR anything. It is costing the sportsmen. This type of license system would be very expensive if done by DNR. This would come out of DNR's budget and they can't pay for this without a license increase. The legislature probably will not pass laws for this. Don't get me wrong, I am not in support of all the small stores loosing their license machines, or the money leaving GA.  I would like to think that DNR did check for companies in GA before sending the money out of state.



Is this just your opinion or have you looked at the numbers to see what it would cost upfront and over the long haul?


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

NOYDB said:


> No reason they can't work up a special paper template that will work in any printer..



No reason except for that pesky contract the State has already executed.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

deerman1 said:


> This would come out of DNR's budget and they can't pay for this without a license increase. .



Yes they could.

You purchase the equipment using bonds. The manpower to operate the system was already in place.

However, let's say that it could not be done without the increase-why not purchase the equipment and keep it in house, increasing the fees by the same amount. Earning $3.3 million annually, how long would it take to pay off the $4 million cost of the system?

How much profit would WRD have made over the 10 year life expectancy of the equipment? The answer is about $29 million. 

Compare that to the $3.3 million annually going to Missouri with 0 return over the next 10 years and tell me which one is most attractive?

This is about tens of millions of dollars. It is not about $2.75.


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## win280 (Feb 12, 2008)

I'm with you Jeff.


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## Randy (Feb 12, 2008)

NO.  It is about decissions being made for the sportsmen/women of Georgia without representation.  This was a bad decission.


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## win280 (Feb 12, 2008)

So how do we get this fixed?Any suggestions?


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## Randy (Feb 12, 2008)

win280 said:


> So how do we get this fixed?Any suggestions?


As I understand it, it is too late.  The contract has been signed.


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

win280 said:


> So how do we get this fixed?Any suggestions?



While it might be possible to fix the problem when the contract expires, whenever that is, it has happened and I doubt it can be changed.

However, this is a shinning example of why we as a group (conservationist/sportsmen/women) must be vigilant in looking after our government. We pay the way for everyone else who enjoys the outdoors and usually it is our ox that gets gored when something needs cutting!

Please let this serve as a wake up call to join a group that will keep you abreast of what our elected officials are up doing under the "Gold Dome" and behind closed doors.

I suggest signing up today with the CamoCoalition at www.camocoalition.org or joining the GONNetwork or both!

They both advise sportsmen/women when our ox is being led to the slaughter house and usually alert us in time to take action to help stop the motion. 

This is proof positive that our government needs us to help them not make costly mistakes. 

This time it was a huge amount of cash. 

Last time it was Oakey Woods.

Next time?


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## Randy (Feb 12, 2008)

Jeff Young said:


> ...or joining the GONNetwork or both!


The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!


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## Mechanicaldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

Randy said:


> The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!



Randy,

That should serve as an indicator of just how seriously I take the involvement of Georgia's Sportsmen in our government process.

Sure I'd rather everyone join the almost 30,000 members of CamoCoalition (membership is free, BTW). However. if they'd be more comfortable with the Network, that is fine with me. 

It is simply that important that we all be involved!


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## Randy (Feb 13, 2008)

I know what you mean.  It is kind of like if you can't vote Republican just vote.


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## whitworth (Feb 16, 2008)

*Honorary License Holders*

"There better not be a charge to get a harvest record for a lifetime license holder!"

Old Fossils with Honorary Licenses will be required to have a computer and printer to get a free harvest record every year.   I'm sure some will use the old one, if it's not filled up.  

I once e-mailed an internet company and asked if they accept checks.  Never got a reply.  Nothing like the modern era. 


The Insanity of It All

"You don't have a credit card?"

No, that's why I don't have any credit card debt.


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