# Wassaw prototype development.



## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

I've shared so much with you folks, that I thought it silly to stop now! 

Here is my journey in developing a new model.  I started this yesterday.  Feel free to add your comments, cause all input is good.

All right folks, I'm in the prototyping phase again. I'm developing a shorter D/R, forward riser, three piece longbow. I'm thinking 58" nock-nock. I drew up a riser that is 14" long. The bow will be built with 1.5" stock. My limb wedges are 8.25" long. I roughed out a pine riser this morning, but forgot to take any photos. I'll get you guys caught up tonight! I've got one of the pirate riser/limb drilling jigs. I plan to lay the mock-up riser on a piece of butcher paper and start drawing limbs until I hit on what I think is right. I'm thinking around 3" deflex, and bring the string nocks back to just above the back of the riser in reflex. I don't know what my limb pad angles are, because I just drew it out until I thought it looked right. I will know more tonight when I start drawing limbs.

1. What kind of limb pad angle are you guys thinking on this? I'd like to be able to make recurve limbs for this model as well.

2. The holes in my drilling jig are spaced 2.5" on centers, but I was thinking of going 2" between the insert and alignment pin, since the longer spacing is crowding my grip area. What are your thoughts on 2" spacing?

3. How short can I go on the limb pads?

4. The riser will be action-wood from Kenny. I plan to lay up the riser with a 3/16" phenolic I-beam. The riser depth will be 1.25" where the limb bolt insert will be. Is this enough depth?

5. Any good tips in general regarding this project?

I should get me riser block, wedges, and take-down hardware today from Kenny, so I will probably answer some of my own questions when playing with the parts. I'll post some photos of my riser tonight.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

Allright folks, this is where I'm at.  I scrapped the 14" riser in favor of a 15" one.  More room for grip and sight window.  I have 10 degree limb pads.  Here is a rough riser with the critical elements only.












Using the jig hole locations that I have ruins the asthetics of the riser.  I refuse to make the ends any deeper.  I think I can just shift the hole jig over 1/2" and have enough meat for the insert.  Here is the jig location, and the modified insert location.  What do you guys have to say about using two bolts, instead of a bolt and a pin?
















Here is my first limb drawing.  The limb deflexes 1" behind the limb pockets and then reflexes 1/2" beyond the back of the riser.  That's 5" of curve.  The black line will represent a 60"AMO bow.  I plan to build a 58" as my mainstay on this form, so it will have the string grooves even with the back of the bow.
















That is a lot of curve to my eye, but what do you guys think?


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

Here is the latest.  I have incorporated several good suggestions into this third riser/limb profile.  I cut 6 deg limb pads on this one.  I left the limbs straight for a good portion, turned the reflex into a tighter radius, and reduced the net reflex by one inch.  The black line represents a 58" amo bow.  Here are the two risers side-by-side.





















Top profile is prototype #1, and bottom is #2.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

Bear with me folks, cause I got lots of irons in the fire right now.  I am also working on a customers bow.  On top of that, I have a bow coming from Chad at Holm-Made bows to finish out for the auction winner at the St Judes Children's Hospitol auction on another site.  I have to final shape the riser and finish.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 25, 2010)

95% of the "hottest" shootable recurve I have played with sport 11 degree limb pad angles Marty. But attaching them to the belly of the riser may make them perform better at 9. So 10 sounds dead center ball park.

2 bolts sound like twice as much screwing and tightening. But as it's no speed connection I don't think thats gonna sway someone AGAINST buyin the bow. It will truly make the connection way WAY stronger, but wouldn't you still need atleast one alignment pin to make sure you aren't having to use entirely to snug a fit of the bolt through the limb?? Othe rconcern would be to make darn sure you add an enforcement wedge on the limbbutt. Because with 2 bolts surely to goodness someones gonna mess around and tightened them too much and crack the limb.

I like the 15" riser idea. You're right most 14s really crowd site windows and grips, and 17s do not allow enough limb length for good force draw curves when you are using limb lengths to hit the 58-60" mark.


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## C.J. Pearson (Jun 25, 2010)

Looking good Marty.. I really like the idea of 2 screws per limb. To me it insures a couple of things. first of all, exact limb placement and alignment and secondly security if one should slip. Personally I like the 2.
I am really impressed with the R & D work you are doing. I am afraid with what you will eventually be offering this may become your day job. Good for you and us.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 25, 2010)

I don't think the 2 bolts will give exact alignment. Because in order to achieve that the holes would have to be drilled through the limb smaller in order for the bolt to have a very very tight fit. Most limb bolts have a bit of play as the bolt goes through the hole. This way you aren't forcing and roughing the bolt hole in the limb. Hence the need for alignment pins. Even with 2 bolts, the limb will still have a bit of "wiggle" in order for the bolts to go through the limbs without having to force them.

As Marty is about as persnickitty a bowyer as there is out there I'm sure there will be absolutely no more looseness in the bolt hole than is absolutely needed. but even with Marty's Tolerance the fact still remains, you do need a bit of room for the bolt to pass through the limb. Maybe not enough to matter. And probably never enough for us average shooters to even notice. But them bowyers like to gets so precise with their tolerances it aint funny.

One of THE most exacting tolerances and alignemnt of limb to riser bows I ever shot had no alignment pins. Instead it had a slice cut to the bolt hole like you would see on ILF limbs only thinner. It then had an aluminum "blade" that portruded from the riser that actually slid in to that slot. The bow was just about absolute zero on tolerances. And it was also the loudest bow I ever shot.


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## robert carter (Jun 25, 2010)

I ain`t smart but I would bolt down one limb bolt on each limb, then get perfect riser / limb alignment and drill through the pre drilled limb marking the riser for the next bolt. Seems like you would get near perfect alignment like that. 
  I shot a Habu Recurve and longbow built with bellyside limbs and they were built with the best fit and perfect tolerance of any bow I`ve seen. They shot just that good too. Only problem was they cost more than the truck I was driving at the time....RC


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## reviveourhomes (Jun 25, 2010)

Looking Good Marty! I am really interested in how this turns out, I have always liked the looks of a rear mounted riser with longbow limbs!


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## devolve (Jun 25, 2010)

15" riser
two limb bolts, but an alignment pin for sure


I am very excited for you marty. this is something I have been wanting as well. A 3 piece longbow to go with my 3 piece recurve. I cant wait to see and shoot the final product! You will have a new customer with this for sure....


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## Rare Breed (Jun 25, 2010)

Marty, looking good. I don't think I would put that 27/64 hole that far into the end of that riser, on that second limb bolt. The pins system will hold the limb very thight. The holes drilled for the limb bolts are usually wallowed out to make the limb bolts find the insert hole. And you will have one less hole through the limb with the pins. Good luck I know it will be right when your done.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm leaning towards one bolt and a pin on either side.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 25, 2010)

I think you'd be happier that way Marty. And look at it this way. *IF* you don't like it you can always remove the pin and place the 2nd bolt in it's place.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

Either that, or two bolts with one pin between them.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 25, 2010)

yep.... Just remember. It's alot easier to add another bolt hole than it is to try and remove one (he he he)


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## Barry Duggan (Jun 25, 2010)

Didn't Bob Lee have a problems with cracked limbs attributed to two limb bolts and overtightening?


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## hogdgz (Jun 25, 2010)

Cant wait to see the finished result.


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## longbowdave1 (Jun 25, 2010)

marty,
 i'm sure your bow will turn out great! have fun with designing it. i'm sure when you get things figured out it will live up to the quality of your longbows. looking forward to seeing you play around with it and the final product.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 25, 2010)

Barry Duggan said:


> Didn't Bob Lee have a problems with cracked limbs attributed to two limb bolts and overtightening?



yea. Palmer did as well. Hence the double uniweft enforcement and extra piece of glass lammed on to the butts.


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## Apex Predator (Jun 25, 2010)

I think I will laminate a phenolic pad on the face of the limb butts and counter sink the bolt heads.  The phenolic should prevent any glass cracks, and look good to boot!


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## devolve (Jun 27, 2010)

update? ;0)


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## Dennis (Jun 27, 2010)

Looks real good


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## markland (Jun 28, 2010)

Definitely on the phenolic pad, have seen many good limbs get cracked from some over zealous bolt tightening and that should help.
You trying to tease me with those belly mounted limbs, ain'cha???


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## Apex Predator (Jun 28, 2010)

Well my order is in with the machinist.  He is building me a drilling jig for riser limb pads and limbs.  I'll have two limb bolts and a pin in between the two.  This jig should enable me to make a set of limbs for a bow that's not infront of me.  We'll see!  Working on another bow in the mean time.  I'll update this periodically.  It's going to take a while, since I'm working other stuff.


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## markland (Jun 28, 2010)

Well I personally like the 2 bolt idea and with a center pin that will be a very solid mounting system.  Carry on!


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## Al33 (Jun 28, 2010)

OK Marty, I just have to ask; Why do you feel you need two limb bolts? The few take downs I have owed and shot only had one limb bolt and there never was a problem with alignment. One thing I especially like about longbows that are not take downs are their light weight. Limb bolts add a lot of weight and doubling that weight seems less attractive to me.


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## markland (Jun 28, 2010)

Al I have had the opposite, most of the takedowns I have owned and used have 2 bolts , like my Black Widows and Bob Lee bows and it does create a very secure, consistent attachment system.  With 1 bolt systems you have to use at least 2 pins to reduce any limb movement, so imagine how secure and consistent 2 bolts and a pin would be.  Personally I think just 2 bolts would be fine, but no harm in adding the additional pin as well.
Also adding a little mass weight to the riser does create a more stable, consistent shooting platform as well, so a little weight is not bad and keeps from having to add additional weight to the bow as well.


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## Al33 (Jun 28, 2010)

markland said:


> Al I have had the opposite, most of the takedowns I have owned and used have 2 bolts , like my Black Widows and Bob Lee bows and it does create a very secure, consistent attachment system.  With 1 bolt systems you have to use at least 2 pins to reduce any limb movement, so imagine how secure and consistent 2 bolts and a pin would be.  Personally I think just 2 bolts would be fine, but no harm in adding the additional pin as well.
> Also adding a little mass weight to the riser does create a more stable, consistent shooting platform as well, so a little weight is not bad and keeps from having to add additional weight to the bow as well.



Thanks Mark! My BW recurve had only one limb bolt per limb and the same goes for my Rivers Edge curve. I agree, a little weight is a good thing for stability.

I was wondering with this design where the limbs are mounted to the backside of the riser versus the front if that had something to do with wanting two bolts per limb.


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## hogdgz (Jun 28, 2010)

Why not use one bolt and 2 pins, I have seen alot of bows like this and they seem very secure.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 28, 2010)

Why not smoke em all and go with some sort of center groove/hinge/bolt system that means I aint gotta worry about fumblin but TWO piece sof bow instead of 3 when/if I ever take mine apart?? I got TD recurves here that aint been "TD"ed in 10 yrs!


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## Apex Predator (Jun 29, 2010)

I was wanting to develop my own model that isn't like what 100 other bowyers are building.  I'm still working on my two pieces.  I don't have any secrets folks.  I'll share what I doing along the way.


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## GregoryB. (Jun 29, 2010)

I like the rear mounted limb design. I have been working on a 3 piece longbow as well and I am just waiting on my drilling jig to come in. I may have to call Kenny and get a new riser block and see what I can do with some rear mounted limbs. Have you built a set of limbs yet to see how they look with the riser ?


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## LanceColeman (Jun 29, 2010)

Apex Predator said:


> I was wanting to develop my own model that isn't like what 100 other bowyers are building.  I'm still working on my two pieces.  I don't have any secrets folks.  I'll share what I doing along the way.



THATS when you and me need ta talk bro.


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## GregoryB. (Jun 29, 2010)

Marty, I have another question. Will you flip your limb wedge over and use the bottom side  so the flat side is against the riser or will you make the top flat longer on the wedge so that it fits the riser before it tapers down and mount it that way ?


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## Apex Predator (Jun 29, 2010)

I will custom build the wedges with the flat part the exact length of my limb pads.


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## GregoryB. (Jun 29, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing the progress of this bow.


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## markland (Jun 30, 2010)

Your right Al what was I thinking???  My older BW bows had 2 bolts but 1 was for tiller adjustments, but the center mounted bolt with 2 pins would be a good choice as well, but 2 bolts would definitely be very secure.


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## LanceColeman (Jun 30, 2010)

Mark don't you have or had one of those OLD actual BLACK black widows??


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## hogdgz (Jun 30, 2010)

I didnt know widow use to put 2 bolts on there bows, learn something new everyday!!!


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## markland (Jul 1, 2010)

I've got 2 of the HS short metal handle bows and 1 HF1225 with the skeleton metal handle, but none of the real early 1 piece bows.
Well actually it had 1 limb bolt and a smaller bolt that was a tiller adjustment for the limb, although my early model HS bow did have a actual 2 bolt attachment on it, just 1 bolt was smaller then the other.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 1, 2010)

markland said:


> I've got 2 of the HS short metal handle bows and 1 HF1225 with the skeleton metal handle, but none of the real early 1 piece bows.
> Well actually it had 1 limb bolt and a smaller bolt that was a tiller adjustment for the limb, although my early model HS bow did have a actual 2 bolt attachment on it, just 1 bolt was smaller then the other.



I shot one of those a long time ago,,,,,, but I think it may have been a long riser (or atleast it seemed that way) that was one of the easy to shoot bows I have ever shot.


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## markland (Jul 1, 2010)

Yep the HS bows shoot very nicely but that HF 1225 is a sweet shooter for sure, too bad they stopped making those bows, imagine what BW could do now with a machined metal riser and their new limbs, it would be very nice!


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## LanceColeman (Jul 1, 2010)

yea!! whatcha reckon that would be?? couldn't be ILF...... maybe WLF ha! 

But yea with todays metal riser fad?? widder would eat em up with that one.


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## markland (Jul 2, 2010)

Yep I think they have been approached many times to bring back the metal risers bows, but they refuse to do it, maybe someday!
I am going to keep an eye on Marty's developments, I know he builds a great bow and I am a sucker for certain bow geometries and lines and will definitely be watching this.  Hard to pull me away from my widows, but always willing to try something else.  I just love new toys anyway!


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## LanceColeman (Jul 2, 2010)

markland said:


> Yep I think they have been approached many times to bring back the metal risers bows, but they refuse to do it, maybe someday!
> I am going to keep an eye on Marty's developments, I know he builds a great bow and I am a sucker for certain bow geometries and lines and will definitely be watching this.  Hard to pull me away from my widows, but always willing to try something else.  I just love new toys anyway!



Mark,

ever fondled one of Martys bows?? One of the best fit and finishes in the bidness.


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## Dennis (Jul 2, 2010)

I agree and can't wait for my new one!


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## LanceColeman (Jul 3, 2010)

sshh!! Dennis!! Get out the way!! Aint none of them proty typies got the shelf on the wrong side.


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## BigJim Bow (Jul 3, 2010)

Marty- If you use two alignment pins, then you can drill the mounting bolt hole larger. The advantage here is that when using the bolt for alignment, it works on the finish inside the hole and can create an avenue for moister infiltration. The alignment pins are less likely to wear at the finish.
bigjim


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## markland (Jul 6, 2010)

Yep kinda liking the 2 pins and 1 bolt idea more as well, should be a very secure system.
Yes I have handled some of Marty's bows and like them, just hard to pull my BW out of my hand but am intrigued with his new design and anxious to try 1 out.
I heard they got some Predator bow action this past weekend and look forward to doing some of that myself, if I can ever get some of these trips off my schedule!!


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## 2wheelfoster (Jul 7, 2010)

This is good. Can't wait to see the final product!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 11, 2010)

I took a few hours today, in between the two other builds I have going on, and worked on my proto-type riser.  Ive got two layers of glass laminated in the riser and I plan to laminate at least two more on the risers back.  She has 1/8" phenolic limb pads.  Hopefully my drilling fixture will be done soon.  It will have three holes for drill inserts, so I can go with either two pins and one bolt, or two bolts and one pin.


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## longbowdave1 (Jul 11, 2010)

looking real good marty! what types of woods do you think you'll use on the limbs?

 this is fun to watch this bow rise from the saw dust!

dave


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## Apex Predator (Jul 11, 2010)

Dave, I plan to use actionwood cores and black glass until I get the design right.  I have a lot of each and got a good deal on them.


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## longbowdave1 (Jul 11, 2010)

cool stuff marty, gonna look like of of those air force experimental planes. your going to have to give a temporary name like the rc15, until you getter for sale.

i'm sure i will live it to your reputation!! i'm looking forward to seeing it done and hearing your review of how it shoots.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2010)

Has all the makings for an accurate bow in just the design!!! I am watching this VERY CLOSELY!!!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 20, 2010)

Had a little time yesterday and this morning to work on my form.  Plywood doesn't measure what it's supposed to, so I bought a sheet of MDF.  Three 1/2" pieces measure the 1 1/2" width I need.  I figure if I put a finish on it, the thing should hold up well enough.  Lot's of forms made out of this stuff.  We'll see!


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## reviveourhomes (Jul 20, 2010)

Getting Closer! I am really interested to see how this little gem turns out. Looking good Marty!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 22, 2010)

I got my form finished, my wedges built, and my lams cut to size and prepped.  I'm gonna glue up one limb in the am.  My drilling jig should be finished tomorrow. 

I am also working on Dennis' bow.  I've already built the riser and have been waiting on lams, but they arrived today, so I got to get on it.  I know he's anxious! 

Here is the wedge on top of one piece of black glass and two edge grain red elm lams.  Another piece of black glass goes on top, as seen in the other photos.  Each red elm lam is tapered .015 each, for a total of .003 limb taper.  My total lam stack is .316, which is a little more than most recommended, but I tend to need a little more than most others.  Besides I had them on hand already ground.  It's a W.A.G. at this point anyway.






With a little hand pressure the lams draw down nice and tight.  I think the glue up will go very smoothly!


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## hogdgz (Jul 22, 2010)

Cant wait to see some more pics marty!!!


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## devolve (Jul 22, 2010)

me too!!!!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 23, 2010)

Got my new drilling jig delivered this afternoon.  I will take down the riser and limbs until my jig fits snuggly, clamp and drill.  That will be right at 1.400".  The hardened inserts can be removed and/or swapped around depending on whether I am drilling alignment pin holes, limb bolt holes, or limb bolt threaded insert holes.

I still haven't decided whether or not to go with two bolts and a pin, or one bolt and two pins.


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## robert carter (Jul 23, 2010)

Good stuff Marty. My last longbow form was made from that stuff.Works very good and will never warp.RC


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## Apex Predator (Jul 24, 2010)

Got one limb cleaned up and the other in the oven.  This thing is starting to look like a one limbed bow now!  I think it may draw 80# though!  

My jig worked out well.  I drilled the riser and limb seperately and they fit right together.  The idea is to build a set of limbs without the bow, but there is a problem.  See down towards the bottom of my photos where I sanded the limb into the riser, so it all flows well.  That is where the riser needs to be in my possession in order to make it look good.


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## Slasher (Jul 24, 2010)

Apex Predator said:


> Got one limb cleaned up and the other in the oven.  This thing is starting to look like a one limbed bow now!  I think it may draw 80# though!



If that comes out to 80# that is okay, there are plenty of critters need that kind of killing power... Lets see:-  Moose, grizzly bear, Polar bear... Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Hippo....

Not my cup of tea, but there is always someone wanting one...

It is looking good though!!!


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## hogdgz (Jul 24, 2010)

Awesome Marty, keep the pics comeing!!!


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## Badddwithabow (Jul 24, 2010)

that thing is SHARP!!! keep em comin


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## ChrisSpikes (Jul 24, 2010)

If it comes out way heavy, send it to me.  I'll shoot it.


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## Barry Duggan (Jul 24, 2010)

Any chance of getting a CNC for an early Christmas present from your bride?


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## longbowdave1 (Jul 25, 2010)

looks good marty, getting closer to the finish line! everybody's waiting to see the finished product.


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## ChrisSpikes (Jul 25, 2010)

The more you blend them, the better they look.  But duplication is definitely a pain.


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## Apex Predator (Jul 25, 2010)

Well, I've learned alot today!  My jig would be the ticket if I had a drum sander to square up my riser block and limbs before drilling.  Everything lined up fine, as far as pins and bolts go, but the limbs are not quite straight!  I think I can work out the twist.  Another issue is my wedge bending at the end of the riser.  Doesn't look good to me, and I'm not sure how to avoid this shy of going with two bolts.  My wedge is 3/8" thick.  The hook in the limbs is too much, in my opinion.  What I have here is a semi-recurve, and will surely get some string slap.  There is no tip wedge.  My total stack has a .003 taper.  She is gonna finish around 54@28, but that is at 60" NTN, and I was shooting for 58".  The full draw photo looks kinda hingy, but she will probably be fast.  She seems to have very good early draw weight.  The limbs are kinda noodly at brace.  You can move them easily with your hand in the string direction.  Is that vertical instability?  What are your thoughts?


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## LanceColeman (Jul 25, 2010)

Thats called "zero lateral torsion" Marty. And some deem it a bad thing, others don't. ToM deputy's little Wolverine is a perfect case and point of this. The one I have here you can pull the string up and it will lay down on the upper limb making that limb look almost unstrung, pull down and get the same effect on the lower limb.
Lateral torsion is NOT the same thing as lateral instabilty. Lateral instability is what you get when your limb tiller is out of sync and or your bow center of balance  does not line out with the limbs tiller.

The good the bad the ugly....  Ugly first The Wolverine as I said is a prime example of this. And the bow is a bit finicky of grips and extremely touchy  about being torqued...If you don't hold it right? it doesn't shoot right. Being a slim lined one piece with no wieght, and a tiny long faded 18" riser she can be a bit touchy about how you hold her and is not what I consider a forgiving bow at all (you may be avoiding this with a 3 piece TD and some more mass wieght and more positive area for a grip)

The good; The bow smokes... no seriously it's as fast a little hybrid as I have ever shot. it runs 10gpp in the high 180s with a draw barely getting to 28". People can talk all the smack they want baout seeing 200fps with a 10gpp arrow but unless you have a 32" draw?? I aint never saw it. Anything propelling 10gpp over 180 is gettin on. *IF* your tiller is tuned right and the limbs are in sync?? It will smoke..... if ya got one limb just way stiffer and have to shave it thinner giving them a different mass of size?? ya gonna get lateral instabilty.

Whats the chances of placing your bolt farther towards the butt of the limb?? by placing it farther away from the edge it shuld remove any gaps between limb and riser because you are levering down on the far end instead of the middle.

Only thing is on release this may cause a bit of slap or uncontrolable limb to riser impact and wobble. you may actually either have to go to a double bolt system or a seriously thick wedge with a longer taper moving the working area out farther..

P.S. ever thought about splitting those two lams up and placing one on either side of the wedge?? That would stiffen the feather fade on the wedge tremendously as well as distribute the limb mass evenly.


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## devolve (Jul 25, 2010)

What??


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## HALOJmpr (Jul 25, 2010)

devolve said:


> What??



No kidding!   Lance I don't know if you're right but it sure sounded good


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## Dennis (Jul 25, 2010)

That sounds good, what it means i have no idea. That i guess is why i don't build bows


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## hogdgz (Jul 25, 2010)

Yea what Lance said, LOL!!!


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## LanceColeman (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't build em either. I just been rubbin shoulders with a whole lotta top bowyers for an awful long time working on designs and mainly... design versus performance and material versus performance. I've been blessed to stand beside some awful fine bowyers and soak up details....... I've just never sat down and tried my hand at it...... I'm a shooter notta bowyer.  I just know what makes em shoot better.


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## SOS (Jul 25, 2010)

Is that wedge actually parallel all the way to the end of the riser?  Or is it already tapering.   Hard to imagine getting that much deflection that close to the bolt.


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## Apex Predator (Jul 25, 2010)

It's parallel for the full length of the riser pad.  Unbraced it's all flush and a perfect fit.  The flat of the wedge is flexing.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 26, 2010)

Gonna hafta stiffen it up then ay Marty?? any uniweft, glass micarta or phenolic layin around the shop for overlays?


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## Apex Predator (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm gonna try and pull that outer alignment pin and sink a bolt insert in it's place.


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## Apex Predator (Jul 26, 2010)

Well I cropped this riser on each end back one inch.  I got rid of the outer alignment pin because it was in the way of my cut!    I drilled out the inboard pin hole and installed another insert.  So now I have two bolts and no pin.  I'll take some photos a little later after my latest laminate on the back of the riser sets up good.


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## reviveourhomes (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm wondering if maybe your wedge is a little bit on the long side and that is why it is causing that "Hinge" mid-limb.


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## Apex Predator (Jul 26, 2010)

That hinge is gonna make it smoke an arrow!

Well I cropped this riser on each end back one inch.  I got rid of the outer alignment pin because it was in the way of my cut!    I drilled out the inboard pin hole and installed another insert.  So now I have two bolts and no pin.  I'll take some photos a little later after my latest laminate on the back of the riser sets up good.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 26, 2010)

Apex Predator said:


> That hinge is gonna make it smoke an arrow!
> 
> Well I cropped this riser on each end back one inch.  I got rid of the outer alignment pin because it was in the way of my cut!    I drilled out the inboard pin hole and installed another insert.  So now I have two bolts and no pin.  I'll take some photos a little later after my latest laminate on the back of the riser sets up good.



You should be "got that right!" on that Marty. the first thing that comes to mind when one says "hinged look" is 21st century..... and they smoke.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 27, 2010)

Not that it matters Marty. But do ya have any idea how many high dollar top of the line recurves I've held and shot that have a limb to riser connection that look exactly like your pics?? As in gap and all??


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## Apex Predator (Jul 27, 2010)

Yep, yep, and yep!  I'm learning a lot with this one.  Here is my new limb.  And the new shortened riser.  I got some epoxy in my inboard inserts that I have to clean out, and then I'll show you some new photos.  I'm sorry I'm updating so slow, but have another build I'm in the middle of as well.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 27, 2010)

Wow Marty. izzat what I think it is?? Did you recess the bolt heads flush??


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## 2wheelfoster (Jul 27, 2010)

this is good.


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## Apex Predator (Jul 27, 2010)

Yes Lance.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 27, 2010)

Not gonna putta washer on her?? Sorta rules out speed knobs huh?

I mean YOU KNOW BETTER than to over tighten....MOST of us know better than to over tighten..... but you'll hafta really really really emphasis to customers that "once the bolt bottoms out?? STOP TIGHTENING!"


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## fountain (Jul 27, 2010)

LanceColeman said:


> Not gonna putta washer on her?? Sorta rules out speed knobs huh?
> 
> I mean YOU KNOW BETTER than to over tighten....MOST of us know better than to over tighten..... but you'll hafta really really really emphasis to customers that "once the bolt bottoms out?? STOP TIGHTENING!"



marty, he means people like me..cause i have a tendency to get a little wild when i tighten somethin..and breakage happens a lot around me.

looks great.


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## fountain (Jul 27, 2010)

or you can get the same limb bolts like big jim has now...i put my bow together with a nickel!


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## Dennis (Jul 27, 2010)

Looking good dang it. If he keeps this up i will have to have one of them also !!!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 27, 2010)

I do think the washers are a good idea.  I'm doing what ever I can just to shoot this one.  I've already decided I'm not going to like these limbs, but i want to shoot her anyway!    I've got a few changes in mind for the next one.


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## BigJim Bow (Jul 27, 2010)

very tough to get the flex out of the wedge without making them so thick for so far. Trace your riser while the bow is strung on the tillering board. then draw it to 28" and see how much your riser (big thick block of laminated wood and glass) flexes. you'd be very surprised.
Bigjim


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## missalot (Jul 27, 2010)

wow looking good!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 28, 2010)

Alright, it's starting to come around.  I'll shoot her at first light, and then lot's of sanding.  After I finish my other build that I'm working on, I'll finish this one out.


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## longbowdave1 (Jul 28, 2010)

wow, looking great marty! let us know how she shoots.


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## devolve (Jul 28, 2010)

nice, cant wait for a test report...


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## Slasher (Jul 29, 2010)

fountain said:


> marty, he means people like me..cause i have a tendency to get a little wild when i tighten somethin..and breakage happens a lot around me.
> 
> looks great.




I am one of those guys too.. Unless it says torque to ___in lbs or ___ ft lbs... TIGHTER IS BETTER!!! 

When things don't go as expected, the favorite drawer of the tool box consists of a regular hammer, a bigger hammer and a small sledge!!!

It is looking good, I don't really need another bow.... But am anxiously awaiting a test report!!!


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## Apex Predator (Jul 29, 2010)

Wow!  This thing has a couple of issues, but shoots better than anything I have built so far.  This thing has excellent potential!  I was stacking arrows at 28 yards.  The forward riser is the most pointable bow I have handled.  Both limbs on this one are twisted, due to my hard-headedness in relying on my drilling jig.  I can hardly wait to glue up another and drill it properly.  I will finish this one out and hunt with it.  She has wonderful manners, except for a slight limb buzz.  I attribute that to the string lying on the edge of both limbs.  No recoil, and as quiet as the quietest recurve I've ever owned.  Less noise than my pronounced R/D longbow.  If you can tell, I'm quite excited.  

Now to finish Dennis' bow!  Got her stringed up this morning buddy!


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## Hunting 4 Him (Jul 29, 2010)

Man, Marty you did it again...you put the shelf on the wrong side!!
I can't shoot that one.

Ward


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## Dennis (Jul 29, 2010)

Post a pic of mine please i cant wait to see it.


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## devolve (Jul 29, 2010)

very excited for you marty!

and dennis


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