# Building a hunting cabin



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

I am in the very early planning stages of building a permanent hunting cabin.  It will be built in a fairly remote place, over a mile from a public road, and will only be accessible by pickup, and probably a 4x4 pickup at that.  It will be essentially a dry cabin, w/ no water or electricity line.  However, I do plan to plumb it using rainwater and a little DC power using batteries and a solar panel.  The cabin will be on a piece of property that we will have long-term access to, so it is a permanent deal.  I want it to last.

My questions here will be about building the structure itself.  It will not need to meet code and there will be no building permits.

I feel like I can build this thing myself.  I do have some framing/building experience, and am otherwise fairly handy.  I may need some help with the roof install and stovepipe...i don't know, haven't researched that far.  

What I need input on is my thought process.  Am I looking at this the right way, is it way overbuilt, underbuilt, ect...Like I said, it's early planning stage, and I am very open to thoughts/opinions of those with more experience than me.

My thoughts are that the structure will be 20x12 with with a full loft.  It will be built on a post and beam foundation using precast concrete piers on a gravel-filled footing.  I have not yet researched how many piers I will need...anyone know?

The rim beams will be 6x6 pt to span the perimeter.  Attached to that will be 2x10 floor joists on 16" oc spanning the 12' length of the structure.  I will then subfloor with tongue and groove plywood.

Framing will be 2x4 on 16" centers.  Is there any reason to use 2x6?  Any reason to go to 12" oc?

Ceiling joists (floor joists for loft) I have penciled in as 2x8s on 16" oc to span the 12' length.  Any reason to stay with 2x10 for this?  Loft subfloor will be t&g plywood again.

Gable framing will be 2x4 on 16".  I'm having trouble finding out what size ridge beam I need.  I was thinking 2x12.  It will span the 20' length, plus some overhang.  I figure the beam will be 22' total.  Is 2x12 enough?  Should there be 2 2x12s?  Do I have to go to an engineered beam?  

The bottom of the ridge beam will be about 6' above the floor joists.  That puts the roof at a 12/12.  I picked 2x10 rafters on 16" oc to span the 6 lateral feet.  They will be about 10' long including the overhang, and about 9' to the bird mouth cut.  Roofing will be tin.  Do I need to collar tie?  Do I need any other structural supports?

The only load bearing walls are the perimeter walls.  This is a typical A frame style cabin.

I have built a scale model of the cabin in a 3D software program.  Here are some 2D images of it from various angles.

































So, I suppose I am asking for advice, comments, input, thoughts, etc.  Primarily on the structural soundness of this building, but I'm not against any other input you may have.

Thanks!


----------



## Huntinfool (Jan 27, 2010)

I have absolutely no advice for you whatsoever.  But those are very cool drawings.

Keep us updated on the progress as you build it.


----------



## rjcruiser (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm going to chime in only on the foundation part.  Make sure it is solid.  If one of those goes down, the whole thing will go down.  Everything else seems like it is built like the house I live in...so...you should be good.


----------



## deadend (Jan 27, 2010)

No 6x6 rim beams use 2x10 doubled on lb side.  2x8 ceiling joists are fine.  Rafters can probably be 2x6 or 2x8 at max.  2x8 ridge beam.  Go 24" on center for the roof and lath with 2x4's for the tin roof.  Collar ties are needed.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 27, 2010)

With no air circulation, it will be hotter than a dickens in the loft! What county?


----------



## Markn30135 (Jan 27, 2010)

IMO........pour the footings 2'X2'x2' use a short piece of rebar for the post anchors out 3" of the concrete, set them square from the batter boards, the posts then are notched for a shoulder beam and drilled to sit on the rebar, they will not move once the building weight is on them. The floor is framed using 2X12 doubled and bolted through the support beams spanning no more than 6' between posts, why skimp and sag. All the exposed flooring & frame work is to be PT. Glue and screw the sub-floor down. Frame the walls 2X4, 16" OC, second floor joist must be 2X10 minimum or they will sag, use barges to keep them centered for the sub flooring, same as first floor, screw and glue. 2X10 for the ridge board and 2X6 for the rafters 24" OC if using tin with perlins (1X4). Use a bottom cross board to support the rafters to the ridge board. Chimney flue out the side with a metal liner through the wall, clearing your roof line by 2' or 3'........Just my $0.02 worth.


----------



## rayjay (Jan 27, 2010)

Go to the liberry and git a book about building sheds and garages or house additions.


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

shakey gizzard said:


> With no air circulation, it will be hotter than a dickens in the loft! What county?



cherokee county, alabama.  that's why I put 2 windows that can be opened during warmer weather.

Y'all think there should be gable vents up there too?


----------



## JustUs4All (Jan 27, 2010)

X2 on the air flow.  
I do not know much about construction, but I think you need more windows for both light and  ventilation.  Downstairs I would want windows in every wall, the idea being to allow air to move in any wall and out any wall. In the attic I would put a window in each gable end and one or two operable sky lights near the center.


----------



## win280 (Jan 27, 2010)

You might check into a concrete slab if you can get a truck to the cabin site.
I would not use any lumber that is not pressure treated.Termites
Run your water line with a slope to a point that you can drain it in the winter,
Put a water tote in the air and gravity feed it to the faucets and water heater.
What about insulation in the floor/walls/ceiling?
What type of siding?
Interior walls ? wood/sheetrock


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

Markn30135 said:


> IMO........pour the footings 2'X2'x2' use a short piece of rebar for the post anchors out 3" of the concrete, set them square from the batter boards, the posts then are notched for a shoulder beam and drilled to sit on the rebar, they will not move once the building weight is on them.


I only vaguely understand what your saying here.  My knowledge of different types of foundations is not extensive.  I will look this stuff up, but do you have any links to pictures of foundations done this way or anything else that may be helpful in further explaining this to me?




Markn30135 said:


> The floor is framed using 2X12 doubled and bolted through the support beams spanning no more than 6' between posts, why skimp and sag.


Doubled 2x12s for the perimeter or for all of the joists?  And you recommend putting posts under every joist at the midway point?  Am I reading that correctly? 



Markn30135 said:


> All the exposed flooring & frame work is to be PT. Glue and screw the sub-floor down.


yep.  good call on PT floor joists...didn't think of that.



Markn30135 said:


> Frame the walls 2X4, 16" OC, second floor joist must be 2X10 minimum or they will sag, use barges to keep them centered for the sub flooring, same as first floor, screw and glue.


K.  Don't know what barges are but I can look it up.



Markn30135 said:


> 2X10 for the ridge board and 2X6 for the rafters 24" OC if using tin with perlins (1X4).


Is there any reason why not to go with something heavier?  Like 2x12 and 2x8?  Perlins are installed with the 4" side flush with the face of the rafter, right?



Markn30135 said:


> Use a bottom cross board to support the rafters to the ridge board.


Good idea.



Markn30135 said:


> Chimney flue out the side with a metal liner through the wall, clearing your roof line by 2' or 3'........Just my $0.02 worth.


I agree, it was just easier to draw it going straight up through the floor and roof.


Thanks!


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

win280 said:


> You might check into a concrete slab if you can get a truck to the cabin site.
> I would not use any lumber that is not pressure treated.Termites
> Run your water line with a slope to a point that you can drain it in the winter,
> Put a water tote in the air and gravity feed it to the faucets and water heater.
> ...




I don't think there's gonna be a way to get a concrete truck up there.

My idea for water is to catch roof water in a 55 gal drum and gravity feed one drum to a toilet and another drum to a sink, maybe a deep sink.  shower water will be pumped to shower head w bilge pump from 5 gal bucket of water that was heated on stove.

there will be insulation in floor, walls, and ceiling.  I am thinking insulation board and maybe fiberglass as well...?

Outside siding will be rough cut pine.  

Inside walls will be rough cut pine.  ceiling will either be rough cut pine or old weathered tin roofing.

floors will be t&g pine.


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

JustUs4All said:


> X2 on the air flow.
> I do not know much about construction, but I think you need more windows for both light and  ventilation.  Downstairs I would want windows in every wall, the idea being to allow air to move in any wall and out any wall. In the attic I would put a window in each gable end and one or two operable sky lights near the center.



I understand what you're saying.  May need to add some windows downstairs on either side of the stove.


----------



## tv_racin_fan (Jan 27, 2010)

Personally I'd build the cabin and a separate building for cooking cleaning if I were planning to use this in the warmer months. Way back in the day thats how houses were built in the south because the last thing you wanted was a fire going in the house in the summer.

I'd use a wood stove instead of a fireplace because you could take it out when you don't need it and have that floor space usable.

I'd probably pour piers/footers but it kinda depends on just how remote the place is, and how hard it is going to be to get material in to build site.

Depending on the insulation type I would go with 2x6 walls spaced at 24" because you can get the higher R factor (easier to cool/heat). I'd probably space everything at 24" except floor joists and I'd calculate what size off that spacing and go with the next size up for floor joists (I hate springy floors but a springy roof don't bother me).

All of that above said I'd be building what is known as an earth berm building myself.


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

tv_racin_fan said:


> I'd use a wood stove instead of a fireplace because you could take it out when you don't need it and have that floor space usable.



it is a wood stove.

also thinking about a propane range for cooking.  maybe even one out of an rv.  run it to a 100# propane tank.


----------



## Canuck5 (Jan 27, 2010)

*Maybe consider .....*

Putting in a ventilating skylight?  Something that will give you natural light and some added ventilation, when needed


----------



## Wahoo Creek (Jan 27, 2010)

One thought:  move the stove to the end of one side, preferrably on the other corner opposite from where your stairs come down.  This way, you will be sacraficing less space.   Also, you could then run your exhaust stack out the side wall instead of up through the roof.  Potential for leaks significantly lessened.

I've stayed in a similar house/shack before.  In the dead of winter, if anybody is sleeping up stairs, they will be very warm and typically open the window upstairs and gets comfortable.  Anybody sleeping downstairs then gets cold because of the heat loss going up the stairs and out whichever window.

For lights, you can find propane fixtures that stay in place. All you have to do is brind the tank in and out as needed.

For water, I like your ideas.  I have seen a setup where the catch tanks were about 30 yards away and out of sight.  They were also up a hill, so the end result was increased water pressure at the shack (I guess).

There are some websites that get into this sort of thing.  I have one bookmarked at home I think.  If I find it, I put up a link for you. 

Take some pics.  I live vicariously.


----------



## Dr_Science (Jan 27, 2010)

Hey Ryan,

Congrats on your plan, and welcome to this side of the 'Hooch. There's a fella named John Rabbe who lives in Washington state and has been helping people do what you describe above for several decades. He's got a lot of good ideas, particularly when it comes to post-and-pier foundations in remote locations. Check his website, www.countryplans.com for details. He has many build-ready predrawn plans, plus owner-builder forums, calculators, etc. which are all free to the public. I find his designs simple, functional, and kind of elegant in a utilitarian way, but keep going back to that site for the input from a variety of experienced folks. For a small structure such as this, I'd probably try to fabricate a lot of stuff at home and haul what I could to the site, not the least of which might be the components of your foundation. Take a look at the owner-builder gallery to see what some folks who had to deal with adverse conditions like frost heave approached their foundations. Also, a lot of folks have some good strategies for locking down their buildings when they're away. Two other quick things: I'd look into a waterless toilet, either manufactured or home-built. With a tin roof, you'll not have a problem catching sufficient water, but dealing with a conventional toilet in a building that's not regularly in use is an unnecessary hassle. If you get a second, Google the "Humanure handbook." This dude is kind of a hippie, and a little out there for my taste, but he does make some pretty good points. The state of Kentucky has also come up with some pretty good waterless solid waste management strategies that are designed to be low-cost and widely applicable. 
I'd recommend you search for "pillow" type roof top solar water heaters. These things are pretty popular throughout Asia because they're cheap and durable and don't require electricity, and if your design is good, you might be able to set up what amounts to a thermo-siphon. 

Oh, one more thing- If you do go with the post-pier foundation, think about keeping critters from chewing into your subfloor. Hardware cloth is pretty good for this.


----------



## Jim P (Jan 27, 2010)

Get you a generator for a small air conditioner, it would come in handy at nite.


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

Wahoo Creek said:


> One thought:  move the stove to the end of one side, preferrably on the other corner opposite from where your stairs come down.  This way, you will be sacraficing less space.   Also, you could then run your exhaust stack out the side wall instead of up through the roof.  Potential for leaks significantly lessened.
> 
> I've stayed in a similar house/shack before.  In the dead of winter, if anybody is sleeping up stairs, they will be very warm and typically open the window upstairs and gets comfortable.  Anybody sleeping downstairs then gets cold because of the heat loss going up the stairs and out whichever window.
> 
> ...




The stove pipe will run out of the wall.  It was just easier to draw it going through the ceiling and roof in the program.  I've thought about moving the stove to the corner too.  I put it in the middle for 2 reasons: 1) easier/more room to pull up a chair and a liquor drink on those cold winter nights to share camp time, and 2) the downstairs bed(s) will likely be immediately on the left as soon as you go in the door, so I worried about that area getting too warm for comfy sleeping...but with what you're saying about opening a window in the upstairs, maybe it would make more sense to sleep close to the stove downstairs.

Where you saw a cabin with catch tanks 30 yds away...what was used to funnel the water in?  they didn't pipe it from the roof that far, did they?


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

Dr_Science said:


> Hey Ryan,
> 
> Congrats on your plan, and welcome to this side of the 'Hooch. There's a fella named John Rabbe who lives in Washington state and has been helping people do what you describe above for several decades. He's got a lot of good ideas, particularly when it comes to post-and-pier foundations in remote locations. Check his website, www.countryplans.com for details. He has many build-ready predrawn plans, plus owner-builder forums, calculators, etc. which are all free to the public. I find his designs simple, functional, and kind of elegant in a utilitarian way, but keep going back to that site for the input from a variety of experienced folks. For a small structure such as this, I'd probably try to fabricate a lot of stuff at home and haul what I could to the site, not the least of which might be the components of your foundation. Take a look at the owner-builder gallery to see what some folks who had to deal with adverse conditions like frost heave approached their foundations. Also, a lot of folks have some good strategies for locking down their buildings when they're away. Two other quick things: I'd look into a waterless toilet, either manufactured or home-built. With a tin roof, you'll not have a problem catching sufficient water, but dealing with a conventional toilet in a building that's not regularly in use is an unnecessary hassle. If you get a second, Google the "Humanure handbook." This dude is kind of a hippie, and a little out there for my taste, but he does make some pretty good points. The state of Kentucky has also come up with some pretty good waterless solid waste management strategies that are designed to be low-cost and widely applicable.
> I'd recommend you search for "pillow" type roof top solar water heaters. These things are pretty popular throughout Asia because they're cheap and durable and don't require electricity, and if your design is good, you might be able to set up what amounts to a thermo-siphon.
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts.  I will check into those things.  That website you mentioned sounds like it may come in quite handy.

I live over here in GA, but spend some time over in NE AL...Jackson, Cherokee, Calhoun counties.  This cabin is going in a pretty spot in Cherokee...between piedmont and centre.


----------



## elfiii (Jan 27, 2010)

Sounds like a lot more work than you want to do, especially the gabled roof and the piers.

Here's mine - 4x8 cedar post and tenon construction with dovetail notches and a shed roof. Overall dimensions are 12x24 with the posts on 6' centers. 2x4's for the walls are on 24" centers. The floor joists are 2x8 cedar on 16" centers, the flooring is 13/16" plywood, the sheathing is 1/2" plywood.

The rafters are 2x4's on 24" centers.

There is a band of 4x8 cedar around the bottom supported on ledgers, as well as 4x8 mitred cross members between the posts to mount the floor system too and another 4x8 half mitred band around the top for the shed roof system. The roof decking is 1/2" plywood overlayed with felt and 20 guage steel roofing.

This way, you don't need footings or piers. Just sink your posts 12-18" on 6" of concrete footing and fill the holes for the posts with concrete.

My cabin is solid as a rock after 12 years. If a tornado comes through, it will pop the sheathing, roof and the 2x4's but the basic post and tenon frame should be good to go.

This type of construction is easy to do. Once you have the frame up, you can knock the rest out in a weekend. The 4x8 beams might set you back some on the $. Mine were all 16 footers and they aren't cheap. Cutting the dovetails is a trick, but if I can do it, anybody can. The beauty of the dovetails is the fact over time they pull the framed structure together more tightly.

As far as power goes, you can get a power invertor at Lowes or HD that will convert your 12v car battery to house current that will run several 12v lights or a laptop and speakers (for those first run movies).

We drag 6 gal jugs of water to camp. I keep 5 or 6 full at camp.

I'll be down there this weekend and take a few more pics of the construction detail for you.

Oh yeah, the structure on the left is my brick pit and the one on the right is the shower house.


----------



## funderburkjason (Jan 27, 2010)

Worked on a river house one time and they used tounge and groove 2x6 for the sub floor and finished floor. Screwed it down. Had a local sawmill mill them and was a cheap way for flooring. I would definately leave a gap on the roof where ridge vent is and cover with screen wire to keep out critters but let out hot air in summer.


----------



## tv_racin_fan (Jan 27, 2010)

Just all depends on how elaborate you want to get and when you intend to use it.

Elfiii I like that setup sir.

I'd do a ladder instead of stairs to conserve space and I prefer the stove in the center of a wall at least, people can sleep all around it if it is that cold. Also I'd put a trap door at the ladder to keep anyone from falling down it in the dark.


----------



## jimbo4116 (Jan 27, 2010)

Like elfiii's build it like a pole barn with 6x6x12' treated posts every 12 running foot of the perimeter.  Posts need to be minimum 30" below grade.   Then frame in between post.

Simplest construction. No need to pour footers or foundation.
Biggest be sure ofs are be square and plumb with the posts and check at the top of the posts for square and crossbuck if necessary to pull square before starting roof framing.

You can google plans for pole barns.

But check with local codes before you spend to much effort to see what is allowed.  Some counties allow ag buildings for "parking equipment and sheltering animals" without pulling permits.


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 27, 2010)

Where do you plan on running the toilet?


----------



## ryanwhit (Jan 27, 2010)

Elfiii, thanks for your input.  I'm interested in seeing some more pics of the detail of the framework of your cabin.  I have never heard of that style of framing before, but it makes sense.  If I understand you right, I could build an A-frame style cabin on the post foundation.



tv_racin_fan said:


> I'd do a ladder instead of stairs to conserve space and I prefer the stove in the center of a wall at least, people can sleep all around it if it is that cold. Also I'd put a trap door at the ladder to keep anyone from falling down it in the dark.



I agree, I think all these are good ideas. 



shakey gizzard said:


> Where do you plan on running the toilet?



There will be a small septic system


----------



## shakey gizzard (Jan 27, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> Elfiii, thanks for your input.  I'm interested in seeing some more pics of the detail of the framework of your cabin.  I have never heard of that style of framing before, but it makes sense.  If I understand you right, I could build an A-frame style cabin on the post foundation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its really going to come down to your budget! Elfiiis floor plan is the simplest. Stick framing and timber framing, 
 That'll come down to$ and skill. As for foundation, They have 4x4 concrete trucks!  A pic of the location would help.


----------



## Wahoo Creek (Jan 27, 2010)

ryanwhit said:


> Where you saw a cabin with catch tanks 30 yds away...what was used to funnel the water in?  they didn't pipe it from the roof that far, did they?



Its been probably 20 years since I saw it but for some reason it seems like it was spring or creek fed somehow.  Just can't remember that part.

By the way, I think your stairs will be more along the lines of a ladder but it will still work.


----------



## crackerdave (Jan 27, 2010)

If you can afford it,use cypress lumber.No rot,no bugs!


----------



## Wahoo Creek (Jan 28, 2010)

Here's the link I mentioned in my earlier post:

http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/


----------



## Sugar Creek Camp (Apr 6, 2010)

X3 on the loft.  Even with air conditioning our loft is unbearable until the winter months.  Something to think about.


----------

