# Deutsch Drathaar



## HookinLips (Sep 1, 2015)

I put a deposit down with a breeder on a deutsch drahthaar and I'm going to have the dog by the first of the year. Just wondering if anyone on here has had any personal experiences with these dogs and if so, what they were, positive or negative. I'm posting it here because I will be using him/her (not sure if it will be a male or female yet) primarily as a duck dog but will be using it for some upland bird hunting as well. Just looking to here some experiences with it. 
Thanks


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## MuXi115 (Sep 1, 2015)

I know there are a few guys on here with DDs. Which breeder are you using?


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## Granddaddy (Sep 1, 2015)

I have hunted with this breed for ducks and pheasant in SD.  These particular dogs were excellent, near tireless upland dogs but I found them to be very unenthusiastic water dogs.  My Labs worked circles around them in the water & were about as effective hunting pheasants as the DDs but probably lacked the endurance of a lengthy quartering hunt covering a large area over several hours as the DDs.  My observations were that DDs were mostly adequate in the water during the early season when water was relatively warm but poor and sometimes refused water retrieves later in the season.


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## HookinLips (Sep 1, 2015)

MuXi115 said:


> I know there are a few guys on here with DDs. Which breeder are you using?



Joe Lowry in NJ

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/breeders-new-jersey/vom-cohansey.html


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 1, 2015)

I have and hunt a DD she has passed  vjp and hzp hunt test. I blood track, point upland, but most of all retrieve. She has no quit but at the same time is the best pet I've had. You will be happy with your dog!


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 1, 2015)

Asta vom mountain creek


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## HookinLips (Sep 1, 2015)

Good deal Trad, that's what I like to hear.


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## HookinLips (Sep 1, 2015)

Granddaddy said:


> I have hunted with this breed for ducks and pheasant in SD.  These particular dogs were excellent, near tireless upland dogs but I found them to be very unenthusiastic water dogs.  My Labs worked circles around them in the water & were about as effective hunting pheasants as the DDs but probably lacked the endurance of a lengthy quartering hunt covering a large area over several hours as the DDs.  My observations were that DDs were mostly adequate in the water during the early season when water was relatively warm but poor and sometimes refused water retrieves later in the season.



I've actually heard the opposite about this breed. I've heard their cold tolerance is about the equivalent of a Lab's and I've heard that their heat tolerance isn't as strong as a lot of other breeds. Guess there will always be cases of both for every breed.


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## king killer delete (Sep 1, 2015)

You goin bird huntin take a bird dog.
You goin duck or goose huntin take a retriever.
You goin coon huntin take a coon hound
you goin rabbit huntin take a beagle
you goin people huntin take a Belgian Malinois
you goin dogin deer clean out the pound and put a hard runin walker hound up front.


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 1, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> You goin bird huntin take a bird dog.
> You goin duck or goose huntin take a retriever.
> You goin coon huntin take a coon hound
> you goin rabbit huntin take a beagle
> ...



Most DDs can hold their own in almost ever category! Can have all of them but you can get one that's good at most!


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## Joe Overby (Sep 1, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> You goin bird huntin take a bird dog.
> You goin duck or goose huntin take a retriever.
> You goin coon huntin take a coon hound
> you goin rabbit huntin take a beagle
> ...



TRUTH!!! I've never understood why people buy a bird dog to hunt ducks and then claim whichever breed it is "can hang" with the specialists...I mean my labs can quarter and trail "with the best of em"...except they can't. They're labs. They'll quarter and trail but I bought them to retrieve...cause that's what duck dogs do....retrieve....a lot...in the cold...and the ice...and bird dogs, ALL OF THEM, lack the double coat a lab, golden and a chessie have....therefore they don't tolerate the cold like the big 3.


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## HookinLips (Sep 2, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> You goin bird huntin take a bird dog.
> You goin duck or goose huntin take a retriever.
> You goin coon huntin take a coon hound
> you goin rabbit huntin take a beagle
> ...



Thanks for that. That was completely useless.   . While I don't disagree, I'm already getting the dog because like Trad said, it may not be perfect at everything but I know it will be GOOD at MOST. The whole point of this thread was just to hear experiences with the breed. Not what breed to take hunting in each scenario. Thanks everyone else who actually stayed on topic.


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## Mumpy (Sep 2, 2015)

My boy is from Joe, you will be hard pressed to find a better breeder out there. So, let me tell you about the dog I got from Joe. Knox is by far the most fun dog I've ever had the privilege to call my dog. He's smart as a whip and picked up on everything I taught him very fast. At just 6 months old he blood tracked a doe that I shot during Archery season. It wasn't a hard track, she ran maybe 100 yds or so, but with a little training when he was around 4 months old by just teaching him what the command "Track" meant, when I gave him the command in the "real" situation he slammed his nose to the ground and it took him less than 3 minutes to find the deer. (All of which I have on video)

In Knox's first hunting season I took him Dove hunting at 6 months of age where on his very first dove hunt retrieved 7 of the 11 dove I shot directly to my hand on command. The last three dove I didn't send him after because the temperatures were in the mid 90's and then there was one dove that my buddy's Draht retrieved because he said "I owed him one" lol. 

That November Knox was 8 months old and we hunted Chukar, Pheasant and Quail, all of which he excelled in and by Mid-November we were Duck hunting on Fort Benning where I didn't lose not ONE Wounded duck. That may have been a fluke, so we'll test that theory again this year. Either I'm a CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored good shot and I kill em or he was just good. Maybe it was a bit of both 

In January I took him to Louisiana for Woodcock and I took my limit each of the three days and on top of that Knox retrieved those birds (I heard dogs didn't like to retrieve woodcock) but he retrieved them to my hand, each and everyone of them. Now, with ALL Of that said, this is what I'm going to tell you.

As I said, Joe is one of the best Breeders you're going to find out there, when you purchase one of his dogs, it's like you have gained a new hunting buddy. He's going to help you with so much that you'll be calling him at night like "Jake from State farm" But, here is my FINAL Word...

You get the dog you deserve. I got the best dog I've ever owned because I put the time, effort and birds towards that. If you get a DD, especially one of Joe's, the bloodline is there. It's up to you to put in the time, effort and training to get the best dog you've ever owned.  PM me anytime, I have training days on Fort Benning quite often with our dogs and would love to have you down.


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## krazybronco2 (Sep 2, 2015)

HookinLips said:


> Thanks for that. That was completely useless.   . While I don't disagree, I'm already getting the dog because like Trad said, it may not be perfect at everything but I know it will be GOOD at MOST. The whole point of this thread was just to hear experiences with the breed. Not what breed to take hunting in each scenario. Thanks everyone else who actually stayed on topic.



question why are you asking about experiences about a breed of dog when you have already put the deposit down? i personally would not put a money down on anything unless i already knew i wanted it and had done my research. guess that is why im asking the question.


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 2, 2015)

I would imagine he knows what type of dog he wants just wanted to know what others thought about it. Kinda like buying a truck and asking your buddy what he thinks about it!


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## mschlapa (Sep 2, 2015)

Tradhunter, you are very wise for your young age grasshopper ? looks like you have done a great job with your dog and look forward to seeing what you guys get into this season. Maybe we can get together later this year after testing and judging season is over.


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## HookinLips (Sep 2, 2015)

krazybronco2 said:


> question why are you asking about experiences about a breed of dog when you have already put the deposit down? i personally would not put a money down on anything unless i already knew i wanted it and had done my research. guess that is why im asking the question.



This vv, more or less. I know what I want out of a dog and I've done a lot of research. This has been almost a 3 year process of narrowing it down and now that it's close to happening, I just wanted to here any personal experiences anyone on here cared to share. 



tradhunter98 said:


> I would imagine he knows what type of dog he wants just wanted to know what others thought about it. Kinda like buying a truck and asking your buddy what he thinks about it!


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## HookinLips (Sep 2, 2015)

Mumpy said:


> My boy is from Joe, you will be hard pressed to find a better breeder out there. So, let me tell you about the dog I got from Joe. Knox is by far the most fun dog I've ever had the privilege to call my dog. He's smart as a whip and picked up on everything I taught him very fast. At just 6 months old he blood tracked a doe that I shot during Archery season. It wasn't a hard track, she ran maybe 100 yds or so, but with a little training when he was around 4 months old by just teaching him what the command "Track" meant, when I gave him the command in the "real" situation he slammed his nose to the ground and it took him less than 3 minutes to find the deer. (All of which I have on video)
> 
> In Knox's first hunting season I took him Dove hunting at 6 months of age where on his very first dove hunt retrieved 7 of the 11 dove I shot directly to my hand on command. The last three dove I didn't send him after because the temperatures were in the mid 90's and then there was one dove that my buddy's Draht retrieved because he said "I owed him one" lol.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mumpy. That is very reassuring. I know it will be a lot of work but I am at a point in my life where I am ready for it. I will send you a PM later.


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## WOODIE13 (Sep 2, 2015)

You get out of them what you put into them, bottom line.  As long as they have drive, you can use it to your advantage.

Didn't poodles come out before labs?


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## king killer delete (Sep 2, 2015)

WOODIE13 said:


> You get out of them what you put into them, bottom line.  As long as they have drive, you can use it to your advantage.
> 
> Didn't poodles come out before labs?


yep sure did and I have seen several in duck blinds. I did not say that the dog breed was not good. I just made a good old observation.


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## WOODIE13 (Sep 2, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> yep sure did and I have seen several in duck blinds. I did not say that the dog breed was not good. I just made a good old observation.



Touche 

But I have seen some nice GWP, Griffins and DD in my time, I was just supporting him in my decision.  

Plus they can find some serious IEDs along with Mals, GS, GSP, Dutch Sheps, and labs.

Train them right, they will do you well.


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## mizzippi jb (Sep 2, 2015)

I've seen several standard poodles at hunt tests.....l have yet to see one pass a hunt test.


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## king killer delete (Sep 2, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> I've seen several standard poodles at hunt tests.....l have yet to see one pass a hunt test.


The ones I saw were meat dogs that would not have done well in a test but they did pick up the birds.


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## king killer delete (Sep 2, 2015)

Bottom line is if you want one get one and train it. But I stand by what I said.


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## Water Swat (Sep 3, 2015)

cutie pies


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## Granddaddy (Sep 3, 2015)

HookinLips said:


> I've actually heard the opposite about this breed. I've heard their cold tolerance is about the equivalent of a Lab's and I've heard that their heat tolerance isn't as strong as a lot of other breeds. Guess there will always be cases of both for every breed.



I'm only conveying what I saw, not what I've heard.  It was not warm when I hunted SD so I couldn't speak to the heat tolerance of DDs.  And one other point, DDs like other long haired breeds have a tough time with cockaburs & beggarlice.


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## Mumpy (Sep 3, 2015)

Granddaddy said:


> I'm only conveying what I saw, not what I've heard.  It was not warm when I hunted SD so I couldn't speak to the heat tolerance of DDs.  And one other point, DDs like other long haired breeds have a tough time with cockaburs & beggarlice.



I hunted Knox from Opening day of Dove season last year until the last day of Quail season. I have owned GSP's, Labs and Brittany's prior to Knox and I could not tell a difference in heat tolerance. It could be the coat as well. You're going to see that the DD you get from Joe is going to have a very nice sleek coat and you'll see other DD's out there that look like Wooly Boogers. Joe's DD's have very nice coats. 
Knox did pick up beggarlice and cockaburs on our hunts but I did nothing special to remove them, a simple brushing and they all came out, no pulling or picking, just brushed him. 

What Knox gives me is a truly Versatile dog, I hunted him in Mid-West Georgia every single weekend from the beginning of Sept till the end of Feb. We duck hunted on mornings that his entire head was a frozen ball of ice and he hit that water after my ducks with a forceful entrance. These dogs will do everything you want to do, as long as YOU put the time and effort into it.


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## Granddaddy (Sep 3, 2015)

Mumpy said:


> I hunted Knox from Opening day of Dove season last year until the last day of Quail season. I have owned GSP's, Labs and Brittany's prior to Knox and I could not tell a difference in heat tolerance. It could be the coat as well. You're going to see that the DD you get from Joe is going to have a very nice sleek coat and you'll see other DD's out there that look like Wooly Boogers. Joe's DD's have very nice coats.
> Knox did pick up beggarlice and cockaburs on our hunts but I did nothing special to remove them, a simple brushing and they all came out, no pulling or picking, just brushed him.
> 
> What Knox gives me is a truly Versatile dog, I hunted him in Mid-West Georgia every single weekend from the beginning of Sept till the end of Feb. We duck hunted on mornings that his entire head was a frozen ball of ice and he hit that water after my ducks with a forceful entrance. These dogs will do everything you want to do, as long as YOU put the time and effort into it.



Sounds like you have a nice hunting dog.  And the key is that your dog seems to fit your needs.  I run retriever field trials as a primary activity & have had several FC/AFCs.  I run a few HTs & have MH titled several.  But my favorite activity is duck hunting, so while the primary (meaning most of the time) activity is training for FTs, my dogs have to be good duck hunting companions  because I do those other things just to have time with my dogs throughout the year, & yeah I'm competitive too, so trials satisfy that appetite.  Point being, there's not the same best for everyone but rather the dog & dog breed that you prefer to be a companion & accomplish what you want is always the best for you.  Like I said in my first post in this thread, I was impressed with the DDs I hunted with in SD for pheasant & ducks - and if those two dogs were representative of the breed, they were excellent examples.  Some guys want a versatile dog to do the work different hunting scenarios present.  Others, like me prefer a specialist, like I use my retrievers primarily for duck hunting but who also make adequate (at least for my occasional pheasant & dove hunting) upland dogs too.


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## HookinLips (Sep 3, 2015)

Thanks for the info guys, I'm especially glad I got a first hand account from someone who has a dog from the same breeder as well.


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## Mumpy (Sep 3, 2015)

Granddaddy said:


> Some guys want a versatile dog to do the work different hunting scenarios present.  Others, like me prefer a specialist, like I use my retrievers primarily for duck hunting but who also make adequate (at least for my occasional pheasant & dove hunting) upland dogs too.



My wife wouldn't allow me to have a specialist dog in each type of hunting I do, hehe. I get you though and get where you're coming from.


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## Mumpy (Sep 3, 2015)

HookinLips said:


> Thanks for the info guys, I'm especially glad I got a first hand account from someone who has a dog from the same breeder as well.



Yea I spoke to Joe last night and told him I was trying to talk you out of it, hehe. You're going to be pleased. 

Those beards though, man, I can't even explain how much water they soak up and pour all over your floor, you have no idea what that thing can do. My wife asks me at least 3-5 times a week if we can cut it.


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## rvick (Sep 3, 2015)

My Drahthaar,  Pepper, will be on Mossy Oaks Gamekeepers this Tues., Wed. & Thursday. Pepper loves water more than I have seen. She points, retrieves, will trail, catch & kill wounded deer & small game. She finds sheds & would make a top dock dog with a little training. Well mannered & truly versatile dog. She is Effie vom Millerhause.


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## king killer delete (Sep 4, 2015)

Water Swat said:


> cutie pies


 Real men road marchin.


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## king killer delete (Sep 4, 2015)

Most of you guys are so hooked on your breed that you have blinders on when it comes to any other breed. I have used a lab for just about everything except hound work and pointing. Now that being said. Most dogs a waterfowler will  use will be a retriever. They do not make good guard dogs. I am not saying any other breed of dog is bad but when you comes to duck and goose hunting a retriever is what you want. Allot of dogs will retrieve but that does not  make him the best choice for job. Versatile does not mean equal. I think is great that some one has dog that will allot of things. But it is like this, Beware of a man with one gun, he will shoot it well. The man with ten guns does not shoot as well as the man with one gun.


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## willsmon (Sep 4, 2015)

Here's a question: how is the new versatile dog owner supposed to master training retrievers, pointers and trackers in time to apply this all to one dog? It takes years of focus on retrieving alone to be able to teach your first dog to consistently perform finished or master level work as a retriever.  Would I like to have a pointer to bird hunt with? Yes of course, and one day I will.  But why would it make sense for someone like me, training their first dog, to try and train a dog to reliably perform as a retriever and a pointer (and a blood tracker, hound, etc) without fully mastering one thing first?


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## Mumpy (Sep 4, 2015)

Why does it take a dog to perform at a master level of work as a retriever to make a good retriever? Let's not turn this thread into another one of these "THREADS".  The OP posted a question about DD's and the people that OWN DD's have given him insight on the breed. More specifically I have given him insight on what to expect from the Breeder he has chosen to purchase a DD from. Everyone else that is posting THEIR OPINION on the breed that have never owned one or spent more than a weekend hunting with one should really focus on your own dogs.


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## willsmon (Sep 4, 2015)

I don't understand why someone wouldn't want their retriever to be able to perform at a high level.  Tons of fun just trying to reach that goal, and I think the end product of that training is more enjoyable.  I also didn't post any opinion on DD's.  Actually think they are neat dogs, and genuinely wanted an explanation as to how someone new to dog training can train their dog to exceed at so many tasks.  Every thread I have seen about versatile dogs has focused on their ability to perform various tasks as well as specialist breeds.  I just wanted to look at the versatile discussion from a new point of view.


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## injun joe (Sep 4, 2015)

"High level" means different things to different hunters. A dog that performs at a high level on a duck pond and retrieves every bird shot may not be a "high level" dog to a guy who wants to run 400yd. blinds at a game setup.
The end training of that product may be more enjoyable to you but a well rounded dog that's fun to hunt different game with may be more enjoyable to a guy who likes variety.
To each his own!


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## HookinLips (Sep 4, 2015)

willsmon said:


> I don't understand why someone wouldn't want their retriever to be able to perform at a high level.  Tons of fun just trying to reach that goal, and I think the end product of that training is more enjoyable.  I also didn't post any opinion on DD's.  Actually think they are neat dogs, and genuinely wanted an explanation as to how someone new to dog training can train their dog to exceed at so many tasks.  Every thread I have seen about versatile dogs has focused on their ability to perform various tasks as well as specialist breeds.  I just wanted to look at the versatile discussion from a new point of view.



This V. "High level" in my eyes is probably different than it is for the guys that compete. I'm not a showboater and I don't need my dog to be perfect. Heck even the "high performing" retrievers aren't perfect. I just want a dog that's going to do what I want it to do, and I believe the dog we have chosen is it. 





injun joe said:


> "High level" means different things to different hunters. A dog that performs at a high level on a duck pond and retrieves every bird shot may not be a "high level" dog to a guy who wants to run 400yd. blinds at a game setup.
> The end training of that product may be more enjoyable to you but a well rounded dog that's fun to hunt different game with may be more enjoyable to a guy who likes variety.
> To each his own!


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## Luke0927 (Sep 4, 2015)

When I spent more time on some upland sites a guy that I talked with a lot had some jam up DD, good upland and waterfowl dogs.

When Its time for a new dog for me I'm probably leaning that way too.


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## Mumpy (Sep 4, 2015)

willsmon said:


> I also didn't post any opinion on DD's.  Actually think they are neat dogs, and genuinely wanted an explanation as to how someone new to dog training can train their dog to exceed at so many tasks.  Every thread I have seen about versatile dogs has focused on their ability to perform various tasks as well as specialist breeds.  I just wanted to look at the versatile discussion from a new point of view.



Others have posted exactly my thoughts on the first part of your post about "High Level" so I'll only say this. I have taken Knox step by step through the Force Fetch Program of Evan Graham, from start to finish. To ME he is where I want him, is he at a High Level?  Maybe, maybe not, depending on what YOUR High Level is, but to me, he and I are going to have a great many years of hunting together at the Level he is at right now.

Now to get to this second part of your post. You asked "how someone new to dog training can train their dog to exceed at so many tasks" To begin with on this, there are Organizations that you can join such as the Southeast Hunting Chapter of the VDD that have training days and will assist in your training. There is also NAVHDA that also has training days that can assist if you want. Honestly, my opinion from what I've seen is these versatile breeds don't need a LOT of training in each and every area. You'd be fairly amazed at what they'll pick up naturally if you simply just spend some time with the pup. For example, last year I took Knox Dove hunting prior to him entering the FF Program (against others suggestions) but I felt that Dove hunting was the closest thing Knox could come to Duck hunting minus the water. So, we dove hunted all season. Knox sat by my side, I shot doves, he went out and fetched them and brought them to my hand. When it came time for Duck season, everything to him was like dove hunting, minus the water which these dogs LOVE the water, so for him to jump into the pond and go grab that duck was nothing for him. By the end of Duck season, not only was he getting my ducks but at the end of the hunt I'd send him out for the decoys which he would bring back to me.

I guess what I'm getting at here is this. You don't have to spend an inordinate amount of time training for each and every single task that a versatile dog does, a lot of things will mesh with each other. Like tracking a rabbit and putting his nose down and tracking blood of a deer each will take some training, but each also helps the other.


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## HookinLips (Sep 4, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> Most of you guys are so hooked on your breed that you have blinders on when it comes to any other breed. I have used a lab for just about everything except hound work and pointing. Now that being said. Most dogs a waterfowler will  use will be a retriever. They do not make good guard dogs. I am not saying any other breed of dog is bad but when you comes to duck and goose hunting a retriever is what you want. Allot of dogs will retrieve but that does not  make him the best choice for job. Versatile does not mean equal. I think is great that some one has dog that will allot of things. But it is like this, Beware of a man with one gun, he will shoot it well. The man with ten guns does not shoot as well as the man with one gun.



And you don't think you're the least bit partial to the lab?

Nice analogy by the way.... so basically the man with ten dogs will not train as well as the man with one dog if we live by that analogy right? So I should hunt with just one dog...Thanks....


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## Mumpy (Sep 4, 2015)

king killer delete said:


> You goin bird huntin take a Deutsch Drahthaar.
> You goin duck or goose huntin take a Deutsch Drahthaar.
> You goin coon huntin take a Deutsch Drahthaar
> you goin rabbit huntin take a Deutsch Drahthaar
> ...




Fixed...


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## king killer delete (Sep 4, 2015)

Mumpy said:


> Fixed...




That's a good one


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## king killer delete (Sep 4, 2015)

HookinLips said:


> And you don't think you're the least bit partial to the lab?
> 
> Nice analogy by the way.... so basically the man with ten dogs will not train as well as the man with one dog if we live by that analogy right? So I should hunt with just one dog...Thanks....


 nope I got a beagle that retrieves to.


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## tradhunter98 (Sep 4, 2015)

I'm not saying my dog is the best retriever in the world... but pictures don't lie....


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## WOODIE13 (Sep 4, 2015)

My buddy had a BM that would retrieve and attack anyone that got within 300 yds of the set up  

With a will, there is a way, no FF required.


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## rvick (Sep 7, 2015)

Mumpy, you mentioned your DD retrieving the decoys. When we were filming we placed a camera on a shed antler that we had planted just for footage. Pepper made a blind retrieve on the shed and then went back and brought the camera to us.


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## king killer delete (Sep 7, 2015)

I'd send him out for the decoys which he would bring back to me.


No way I would allow this in any kind of duck dog or goose dog. This could set your dog up for failure.


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## Mumpy (Sep 8, 2015)

KKD - That's on you if you wouldn't do that, but personally I have done it with every hunting dog I've owned and it's never caused a problem. I can't explain WHY it's never caused a problem because honestly I don't know why, I can only tell you that after my dog's have been FF trained and after the day is done, I've always been able to give them a line towards a decoy and release them and they go out, bring me the decoy and we do it again, and again, and again until I have my decoys.

Maybe they've been able to figure out that when Daddy shoots it's a Duck and when Daddy is making me go out without shooting they grab the hard plastic thing.  I don't know, but I do know I've never had an issue.


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## Mumpy (Sep 8, 2015)

rvick said:


> Mumpy, you mentioned your DD retrieving the decoys. When we were filming we placed a camera on a shed antler that we had planted just for footage. Pepper made a blind retrieve on the shed and then went back and brought the camera to us.



hehe, That's awesome!


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