# Anyone remember pods?



## TJay (Oct 3, 2005)

I don't think it's legal anymore, but in MS years ago it was legal to use poison on your arrow.  It was a white powder that you rolled up in a rubber sleeve that would unroll when you hit a deer and release that powder which affected the central nervous system, there heart and lungs would just quit.  Just about any hit was a lethal hit.  Trouble was, it worked on people the same way.  If you happened to get some of this stuff in an open wound while you were preparing your arrows it was bad news.  Anybody remember that stuff?


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## huntnnut (Oct 3, 2005)

I remember it, though I believe it has always been illegal in GA because of it being so dangerous.


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## reylamb (Oct 3, 2005)

The use of pods is still legal in MS, although the possession of the poison itself is illegal.


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## frankwright (Oct 3, 2005)

A fellow showed me one many years ago and the best I remember, that is exactly what it looked like. It had a black rubber sleeve that rolled up over some white powder kind of poison or whatever it was.

It is hard to believe that was ever legal.


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## rip18 (Oct 3, 2005)

I grew up hunting in Mississippi.  The first couple of years I bowhunted, I hunted without them.  Then an older bowhunter in our club gave me a couple.  I carried them a couple of times & was always very scared that I would accidentally cut myself with one.  The next year, they were not legal.  I never did shoot a deer with pod, but saw several that had been shot.  It really didn't matter about shot placement, all you had to do was get the drug into the bloodstream.  I think we are better (& certainly safer) hunters for NOT having pods now.


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## Bow Only (Oct 3, 2005)

There were several different set ups you could use when shooting pods.  One was a commercially available pod and the other was using a cut balloon.  As for hitting the deer anywhere and it working, that's not totally accurate.  You do need to get sufficient quantities in the bloodstream for it to be effective.  A leg hit often wasn't fatal unless it passed thru the meaty part of the leg.  
I've never hunted with succinyl choline or tubocurarie, but I know people that did years ago.  It is illegal to possess these ingredients without a written prescription, unless you are licensed in the compounding and vending of medicines, drugs, and poisons.


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## gobble79 (Oct 3, 2005)

I used  anectine in MS.  It has to get into your bloodsteam.  Putting it on an open wound would not hurt you.  If I fell on the arrow, I would be ready to kick the bucket anyway.  I used a balloon at first and then went with a store bought syringe type deal.


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## Bow Only (Oct 4, 2005)

Brand name - Anectine
Generic name - Succinyl Choline


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## Mechanicaldawg (Oct 4, 2005)

Leave it to the Witch Doctor to keep us up to date on magic powders!


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## LJay (Oct 4, 2005)

Sounds like bad stuff. I don't think I would try that. I cut myself too much!


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## Harvester (Oct 4, 2005)

Wasn't there some type of antidote for any mishaps?


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## Bow Only (Oct 4, 2005)

They use this medicine all the time during surgery.  It's just a non-depolarizing muscularinic blocker.  Unfortuneately, if an accident occurred in a hunting situation, but best you could hope for would be for the funeral home director to put a little make-up on your cheeks to make your skin look a little better.  (reponse has nothing to do with your sig picture)


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## PWalls (Oct 4, 2005)

The deer still ran though when shot right? So, shot placement was still important to ensure a good blood trail right? Don't see the point.

Also, can you safely eat the deer meat when killed with this poison?


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## limbhanger (Oct 4, 2005)

*Tjay*

I lived in Florence Ms. and worked for a guy who had a patent on the syringe type pods. I made a ton of the things in the 80's. I still have one somewhere in my pile of junk.


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## satchmo (Oct 4, 2005)

*pods*

I remember pods. Though they were not legal in Alabama when I was there in the early 80s, I know that some people used them. From what I undrestand ,you could really be dressing a deer that is very much alive. Drugged with a non lethal hit. It was the talk of the time when I was younger.


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## Bow Only (Oct 4, 2005)

With a chest cavity or abdominal hit, the deer usually  won't make it out of sight.  As for the deer still being alive, the drug inhibits the contractility of the diaphram.  Once it stops, the brain can only continue for a few minutes without oxygen.


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## Inatree (Oct 4, 2005)

I hunted in Fayette Miss. and yes I used them.
Let me tell you guys about my wifes *** theiving cousin.
He found a my duffle with all hunting gear at her house (before we were married) in Snellville while visiting from Gulfport. It seems that something very bad had happened to him on the way home and doctors were about to draw spinal fluid from him to try to figure out what had happened to him. He is very lucky that I remembered what was in that bag. What erks me is that he never returned the rest of the contents of the bag after I saved his life and he's still a ***.


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## satchmo (Oct 5, 2005)

Bow Only said:
			
		

> With a chest cavity or abdominal hit, the deer usually  won't make it out of sight.  As for the deer still being alive, the drug inhibits the contractility of the diaphram.  Once it stops, the brain can only continue for a few minutes without oxygen.


I really don't know too much about the drug other than all the propaganda surrounding it when I was young. However,as a bowhunter for over twentyfive years, there is no way to convince me that any drug will put a gut shot deer down in front of me. A few minutes to a deer running through the woods is a mile! Now a muzzy throug both lungs will put one down in front of you, or just out of sight.


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## Deerhead (Oct 5, 2005)

I spent my teenage years in Meridian and started bow hunting there.  I used it a few years but was never able to connect.  The one deer I saw shot with an arrow that contained a pod was shot in the lungs and would have expired anyway.  

Doc correct me if I am wrong the Anectine is not lethal to humans “in small doses”.  I was always told what kills is the broad head.  After seeing what a modern broad head does to a deer I still believe that to this day.


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## Bow Only (Oct 5, 2005)

Oh, it's very lethal to humans, and any other animal that gets the powder in their bloodstream.  The weight of the animal and where they are hit has a lot to do with how far they go.  I had a friend that hit a couple does in the guts with pods and they didn't make it but 30 to 40 yards.  
The debate over pods being ethical is strange to me.  I don't believe they should be legal because of the danger to the user, but there is no doubt they would increase recovery rates.


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## Knothead (Oct 5, 2005)

The indian tribes in the Amazon dip their arrows in curare which paralyzes the central nervous system and diaphram so it is really nothing new.........It is just pretty sad that one would have to resort to this to take an animal. Evidently, they don't have much confidence in their shooting or tracking abilities. Plus, consider the source of which state legalized it........


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## reylamb (Oct 5, 2005)

Hey Knothead, we have to keep several things in mind when looking at the pods, along with where and when they were legalized.  They were legalized in MS back in the 50's and 60's prior to the advent of the compound.  Keep in mind that back then complete passthroughs were not as common, therefore the bloodtrails were harder to follow.  The idea was to allow the pods to make for higher recovery rates at that time.

Also keep in mind that one of the founding fathers of modern bowhunting, and a man that is considered by most bowhunters today to have been one of the greatest ever, Mr Fred Bear was a huge proponent of the use of the pods and helped to pass the legislation in MS making their use legal.  I would seriously doubt anyone would question his ethics, confidence, shooting ability, or tracking ability.  Different time, different equipment.


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## PAPALAPIN (Oct 5, 2005)

*Anectine-- SUCCINYL CHOLINE CHOLRIDE (SCC)*

We used the "sliding sleeve" as it was called.  It was the one made with the top of a syringe.  It was tapped to screw into the end of the arrow, and had a female end that the broad head screwed into.  the shaft was milled down in the center with an o-ring on each end that kept the powder in place.   When the arrow hit the deer, the base of the syringe end would be slid back on the shaft, releasing the powder.  I never saw a deer hit that did not go down.  60 seconds if the deer walked away, 15 seconds if he ran.  The key was to shoot for the kill zone.  IF hit right, the powder would spill into the body cavity and have little effect, but the broadhead would do the job.  If you made a bad hit into a meaty spot.  The powder did the job.  Of course, some guys just shot for a hip or butt shot.

Anectine-- SUCCINYL CHOLINE CHOLRIDE (SCC) is a chemical used in surgery.  A slow drip will keep any voluntary muscle from moveing.  The lungs are semi-voluntary muscle and SCC will shut them down.  The heart however, is an involuntary muscle, is not effectred by the drug, and will keep pumping it through the system until the deer sufficates.  First to go are the legs.  The deer drops, next are the lungs. suffication is imminent.  If the deer does not get enough of a dose, he will recover.  The drug dissapates in about 45 minutes and leaves no trace.  If the broadhead does not kill the deer, he will survive.

The meat is edible, SCC leaves not trace or effect after 45 minutes.

The POD was developed by a Mississippi doctor that pushed for legalization of it's use with SCC.  The interesting thing was that it became legal to buy and use the pod, but it was illigal to buy or sell the SCC.  However, if you had it, it was legal to use it.  I heard just recently that it was still legal in MS, but that may be wrong.

Another short lived product was the hypo-arrow.  It was actually a large bore hypodermic needle that screwd into the end of the arrow, and no broadhead was used.  It also used SCC but in a liquid form that was injectible.  You mixed the powder strongly in water. It had an even quicker effect than the pod since disolving time was not an issue.

Boy, this sure brings back memories of the good ole days.  Sitting around the campfire arguing about if the pod was ethicle or not.    

It was a very humane way to put a deer down, and very quick, but very controversial and most bowhunting associations condemmned it to be unsportsmanlike.  There were many articles written on it from both sides of the issue.

A lot of time has passed since it was introduced in the '60's, and lots of things have changed.  Back then compound bows were illigal.  The bow could not be "drawn, held, or released, by a mechanical device"  Also crossbows were illigal.  It is still illigal in most states (if not all) to hunt with poisoned tipped arrows.  Who knows, one day that may also change.  Whether it should or not be legal can open another very heated debate.

Right now a hot topic in Georgia is legalized baiting.  Many states already have it.  It is up for consideration in Georgia now,  Many hunters will oppose it.  Many will accept  it.  If it passes, some will bait, some will refuse to.  No different with the pod.  If it is considered for legalization in any state, some will oppose it, some will oppose it.  Look at the crossbow situation in Georgia.  Many bow hunters opposed them.  Some of the opposer are now shooting them.  Back in the early '70's it was the same with the compound bow.  They were iligal for hunting and opposed by may bowhunters.  Where are they now.  Time, and acceptance, change things


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## Knothead (Oct 5, 2005)

*Evidently There are Better Hunters in the great State of Georgia*

As I said before, them Mississippi hunters ain't very confident in their shooting or tracking ability if they have to poison a deer to kill it.......I haven't seen anything kill as quick as a razor sharp broadhead. These guys are hoping to kill the deer even if they don't make a lethal shot with an arrow. Not much incentive to practice regular or give the animal the respect that it deserves. Probably why it hasn't been legalized in the other states.....And I don't care if Fred Bear or George Herbert Walker Bush promoted it I still think it is unethical and my opinion of Fred Bear has taken a nose dive....I rate him right up there with poachers now!


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## PAPALAPIN (Oct 5, 2005)

*It Was A Different Time*

KNOTHEAD

Keep in mind that, at the time ,the pod was being conidered as a means of recovering, deer that would otherwie be lost, wasted, and die a slow painful death.  It was supported by many ethical hunters.  Just as in this thread, there were differing opinions on both side of the issue.  I used it on two deer in Mississippi.  One wa a good hit and the broad head did the job.  On the other, the deer jumped the string and spun around.  I hit it in the flank. He rand about ten yd and stopped, looked back to se what had hit him.  Within 20 second his legs got wobbly, he took one step and his leg gave out.  If I ha not had the pod, that deer would never have been found.  WASTED!!.

I ask if you hunt with a compound.  If you do, you would have been considered one of the most unethical, unsportsman bowhunters of the time.  That was the view point back then. But, times change.  If the pod had been legalized back then, by now, it would be considered a  common thing now in everyday bow hunting.  

It was not hunting ethics that kept it illigal.  It was the fact that it was a controlled substance, and thought to be to dangerous to hunter in case of an accident.  There were a few cases in Mississippi where hunters fell on an arrow and died, not from the broadhead damage, but from the effects of SCC.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect you for it.  However, back then, and still now, there were, and are a LOT of hunters that pick up a bow, do not learn how to shoot it accurately and head for the woods with dull razorheads, and could not hit the kill zone from 5 yds.  I would just as soon see these hunters using pods to be more humane to the deer.  Have you ever seen a doe running through the woods with 6 arrow sticking out of her, none lethal hits, with three teenagers chasing after her.  I have.  Not a pretty site.

Should the pod have been legalized? Should it be now?  Talk about a heated debate.  You have never een one as hot as that one would be; agiain!!


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## TJay (Oct 6, 2005)

Ease up on those MS guys there Knothead, I know a couple of them (Hank Hearn and Chris Ashley come to mind) and they ain't slouchy.  I just started the thread coz I thought pods where an interesting step in the evolution of bowhunting.  There are lots of deer in MS and lots and lots of bowhunters too.


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## PAPALAPIN (Oct 6, 2005)

*A Very Interesting Look Back Into Bowhunting History*

TJay

I agree that the thread is a very interesting look back.  If you had not started it, I have no doubt that there are many bowhunters that would have no idea what the pod is.

There are a lot of topics that we could look back on, but this one is probably one of the most interesting.  Back in the '60's, when it was a topic of debate, it was one of the hottest topic around, with diehard bowhunters taking both sides of the issues.  Back then, bowhunters were in an extreme minority.  We were very aware of our preceived negative image.  We were incorrectly accused of crippling and losing more game than we harvested.  Fred Bear was one of the biggest leaders in a PR campaign to improve the image of bowhunting; and he probably was the most effective.  We were the brunt of jokes from gun hunters, and a target to many sportsmen that were anti-bowhunting.  The image of bowhunting was very important to us.  The exploits of Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Jim Doughherty, Ben Pearson, Jack Howard, and many others were at the forefront of the campaign, promoting the effectiveness and efficiency of a well placed arrow with a razor sharp broadhead.  However, the rest of us, the lesser, or average bowhuntes, coupled with the image protrayed by careless, unethicle bowhunters that did do it the wrong way intentionally, was the amunition that the "antis" used to try to kill bowhunting.  It was a long uphill battle to get bowhunting seasons established and then expanded over the years to what it is today.  

The issue of the pod was only one thing looked at as a possible way to improve recovery ratios, and improve the image of bowhunting.  

So before anyone starts criticising those efforts, keep in mind that if these guys had not pioneered those issues, successes and failures, you just might not have the bowhunting opportunities that you have today.  Was the pod issue a failure?   Maybe, maybe not.  It may be considered a success it that it was tried and discarded, but at least it was considered.  The exact same thing happend with the advent of the compound bow, but with different results.  When Allen came out with the first compound, we all looked at is as a contraption that had no future.  The NFAA, the NAA, and other Archery Associations banned it from use.  States declared it as an illigal hunting weapon.
If it had not been for the same groups that tried to pioneer the pod into acceptance, compounds might well be illigal today, or at least very delayed in their development.  

We have to give KUDO's to those guys that worked so hard to promote the image of bowhunting, even if some of those endeavors are something the you or I disagree with. Many of these were from Mississippi, which early on was one of the bigest pioneer states when it came to bowhunting.

At least they looked at issues to achieve that goal.  You can look back on many products, theories, and practices that were visited over time.  The practical ones survived and flourished.  The impractical ones fell to the wayside.  In any case, the end result is the situation we all enjoy today.

So let's think a little before we start condeming any bowhunters, from any area or era, for their experimentation with things that could effect us , for good or bad.  Where would we be if people had take that attitude with Art Young, Saxon Pope, or Ishi.  Bowhunting would never have gotten off the ground.


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## PWalls (Oct 6, 2005)

Good post.


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## gabowman (Oct 8, 2005)

A couple of guys I used to work with used it a long time ago. One of the guys shot a deer in the lower front leg and the deer died inside of 100 yards. Musta been some bad stuff.


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## PAPALAPIN (Oct 9, 2005)

OR GOOD STUFF, depending on your point of view


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## bull0ne (Oct 9, 2005)

I had forgotten about pods until this thread came up.......back in the 80's we found then on the shelf at the local Freds stores,we had no idea what they were or how to use them until someone clued us in....we figured a shipment got sent to Ga. by mistake.

BTW....we did not purchase any.


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## Son (Oct 9, 2005)

*Pods*

Never used 'em, but did Ok anyway.
But get this, couple years back a landowner gave me permission to hunt his woods. So I went scouting for the best setups. I found someone had a loop of strong springy wire hanging just over ever major scrape. It appeared they figured on the buck getting lassoed by the wire, the spring of the overhanging limb would tire him out and be easy to dispatch in the morning. Snares for bucks, how low can one get? I removed all that I could find. So in return they took my stands. I gave up on the place, another group tried to hunt it, the snare guys took their stands. That was about six years ago in Seminole County Ga.


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## gabowman (Oct 9, 2005)

PAPALAPIN said:
			
		

> OR GOOD STUFF, depending on your point of view




EXACTLY! The guys using the pods thought they were cream of the crop and was exstatic over the deer they killed. I thought of them as poor archers. I even told them so and that with a well placed arrow the poison wasnt needed. I guess for them it was about the kill instead of the hunt.


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## PAPALAPIN (Oct 9, 2005)

*Some Had Different Ponts Of View*

Some thought of it as an edge against crippled and lost deer.  Some used it because they felt more confident of a quick humane kill than without it.   Some did use it as an excuse not to have to get  proficient witht their weapons.

If it was tried again today (which I doubt, and hope, it never will), we would have both ethical and unethical hunters lining up on both sides of a very heated debate.   As I aid before, in the early '70's the line was drawn over the compound bows, and was in some ways just as controversial and heated as the POD issue.  The difference is that eventually, the compound was accepted.   But, they both went through very semilar evolutions.  The compound survived and thrived, the POD did not.  

Look at the baiting issue goin on right now.  Same thing.  In some states it is already legal.  I fell that eventually, Georgia will be among them.  Then you and I get to make up our own minds if we bait or not.

As far as unethical hunters and poachers goes, they are going to do what they are going to do, no matter what the  law is.  Crossbow, once illigal. now legal.  Compounds, baiting, shooting does in gun season; all illigal at one time or another.  All legal now.  Times change and so does attitudes toward different thoughts.


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