# The Antichrist Identified ?



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

Most all presidents and World Leaders have being deemed to be the Antichrist at some time or other.
We even have another thread going on about this.
But Today's Obama's speech to the U.N. Calling for Israel to Stop and desist on building on what he called occupied territory by Jews and calling for the Divison of Jerusalem as a two Capital City and affirming " This will bring Peace and security, Remember that verse that says, when they say peace and security, then sudden destruction will come, This leaves no doubt in my mind , if he is not the Antichrist he is the Elijah of the false Messiah, I personally have never called anyone out like this, but this man my brother qualifies better than OJ's gloves fitted him, and this just 3 days from Yom Kippur ?
 And Ex UN senator Bolton just said," he wants to govern through the UN" this is the most anti semitic speech ever given by a US president (Surprised?)

Be in Constant prayer and supplication.
"Look up our Redemption Is at hand"
Shalom    

So Going Back to the OP, Barack Obama said "by dividing Israel as two nations and Jerusalem as a two Capital City, we would accomplish Peace and security"

Jesus says, when they say peace and security then Sudden Destruction will come"

3 days after Obama said that, today this happens;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/


----------



## ddd-shooter (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah. Do you follow Yom Kippur like traditional Jews? I would be interested to know how you observe the holiday.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Hmmm...how does that go along with Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

That hasn't happened yet...Having said that, I haven't listened to the speech myself.  

Lowjack, are you an Israelite?  

Do you still observe the Jewish traditions and holidays?  

I'm not trying to set you up for anything by asking, I'm just curious.  I have some close friends that are Messianic Jews and the teachings and traditions that they observe are very interesting to me.  Lots of good heritage to learn about for a gentile like myself who has been adopted into the kingdom.


----------



## biggtruxx (Sep 23, 2009)

He is something that's for sure. I dont trust him one bit.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Hmmm...how does that go along with Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
> 
> That hasn't happened yet...Having said that, I haven't listened to the speech myself.
> 
> ...



The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.There are hundreds of TV stations and Radio Proclaiming the gospel 24/7 heard in every language spoken.
Missionaries have reached even the deepest entrenched tribes in the few wild Jungles of the world, Now preaching the gospel and people accepting the gospel are two different things, Our Church supports 650 Missionaries around the World from different denominations, we don't care what the denomination is , if they are Preaching salvation Through Faith In Christ and His blood atonement, we support them.

So please don't tell me that even the Chinese don't know who Christ is, they do, we did a sidewalk poll in China and every Chinese we asked knew who Jesus was.

I'm what is called a Karaite Jew, or in other words we follow the Feasts according to the Torah, Not according to some Rabbi's Idea of how you should do things and get involved in fruitless traditions, such as the Pharisees did in Jesus' times and opposed him because of them.
I don't think you are setting me up because that would be impossible, I know in Whom I have believed. LOL


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

biggtruxx said:


> He is something that's for sure. I dont trust him one bit.





You're very wise, you will be wiser if you stop drinking beer, LOL


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> believed. LOL


so basically what you're saying is, "I pretty much know everything?  Well I'm glad to know that, if I have any more questions I would be sure to ask you...if you didn't come across like a KJV donkey, that is.

Lesson learned, no more serious conversations with you.  You don't seek peace and unity, you just want to be right...Good luck with that....


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

biggtruxx said:


> He is something that's for sure. I dont trust him one bit.



Ok, now this response makes sense... Thanks for the heads up.  I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Ta-ton-ka chips (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Most all presidents and World Leaders have being deemed to be the Antichrist at some time or other.
> We even have another thread going on about this.
> But Today's Obama's speech to the U.N. Calling for Israel to Stop and desist on building on what he called occupied territory by Jews and calling for the Divison of Jerusalem as a two Capital City and affirming " This will bring Peace and security, Remember that verse that says, when they say peace and security, then sudden destruction will come, This leaves no doubt in my mind , if he is not the Antichrist he is the Elijah of the false Messiah, I personally have never called anyone out like this, but this man my brother qualifies better than OJ's gloves fitted him, and this just 3 days from Yom Kippur ?
> And Ex UN senator Bolton just said," he wants to govern through the UN" this is the most anti semitic speech ever given by a US president (Surprised?)
> ...



Can't we just check him?

You know somebody hold him down, strip him, shave him, and the look for the "mark of the beast"

btw, he really is the antichrist


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

ddd-shooter said:


> Yeah. Do you follow Yom Kippur like traditional Jews? I would be interested to know how you observe the holiday.



He's a Karaite Jew, that's vastly superior to the traditional Jew...


----------



## Ta-ton-ka chips (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> He's a Karaite Jew, that's vastly superior to the traditional Jew...



Really? So some religions are better than others?
I'd understand that comment better if we were comparing any religion to the cult of Islam


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> so basically what you're saying is, "I pretty much know everything?  Well I'm glad to know that, if I have any more questions I would be sure to ask you...if you didn't come across like a KJV donkey, that is.
> 
> Lesson learned, no more serious conversations with you.  You don't seek peace and unity, you just want to be right...Good luck with that....



I guess I had you pegged right. Good luck !
God Said to Abraham , I will bless those who bless you and I will Curse those who Curse you and your seed.
I Told you couldn't set me up, I lived all my life among anti semites.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Ta-ton-ka chips said:


> Really? So some religions are better than others?
> I'd understand that comment better if we were comparing any religion to the cult of Islam



That was completely tongue in cheek, a reference to an earlier response by Lowjack.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I guess I had you pegged right. Good luck !
> God Said to Abraham , I will bless those who bless you and I will Curse those who Curse you and your seed.
> I Told you couldn't set me up, I lived all my life among anti semites.



Actually He made that covenant with Abram ( just nit picking since you've established yourself as superior to others here)...contextually, however, you couldn't miss the mark much farther than you did with that quote in response to my comments to you.

Your time spent among anti-Semites has left you with some baggage that you (apparently)  need to be set free from.


----------



## MustangMAtt30 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack, what do Karaite Jews believe about Jesus?  

Are you a believer that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God?

Not ripping you, just trying to understand.


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack: “But Today's Obama's speech to the U.N. Calling for Israel to Stop and desist on building on what he called occupied territory by Jews and calling for the Divison of Jerusalem as a two Capital City and affirming " This will bring Peace and security, Remember that verse that says, when they say peace and security, then sudden destruction will come, This leaves no doubt in my mind , if he is not the Antichrist he is the Elijah of the false Messiah . . . “

Okay, so let me get this right – Your reading of Scripture tells you that Obama is the Antichrist you’ve been breathlessly awaiting, because he is opposed to the aggressive, imperialistic, militarily enforced expansionist tactics of Israel?  But, is that just because of the position he holds, or would everyone (most thinking people) who oppose these tactics count also?  Can there be a few billion Antichrists?  I’m opposed to the tactics Israel employs also, and have the added attraction of being an atheist, where Obama is a Christian, so wouldn’t I be a better candidate for the job?  I think it would look pretty good on my resume . . . 

Then: “So please don't tell me that even the Chinese don't know who Christ is, they do, we did a sidewalk poll in China and every Chinese we asked knew who Jesus was.”    And?   Every Chinese polled knows who Mickey Mouse is too.  And Colonel Sanders.  So the point you make is that, in your opinion, you’ve adequately warned everyone that you believe in something, and so now they can all be killed and condemned to eternal suffering, by you, with a clear conscience?  

Is it just me, or does it seem like you are a little too eager to see this Godly  cataclysm, and look for ‘signs’ that it is imminent behind every bush?  Remind me not to try the Kool-Aid . . .


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> God Said to Abraham , I will bless those who bless you and I will Curse those who Curse you and your seed...



One more thing while we're here...do you believe that since I disagree with you and made the observation that you come across like a "king James donkey", that I'm under a curse from God?

If so, what does that say about the sufficiency of the work of the cross and the fact that my faith has been placed in Jesus and His blood shed for ALL of my sins?  Or is disagreeing with you now an unpardonable sin?

As a Jew, do you believe that your Jewish heritage gives you a superiority to the born again Gentile?  My Bible says that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ...


----------



## CaptainCraig (Sep 23, 2009)

Cant we all just get along


----------



## ddd-shooter (Sep 23, 2009)

I think its going pretty good considering... lol


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

It IS a debate forum after all...


----------



## Spotlite (Sep 23, 2009)

In all honesty, Lowjack may be on to something. Allot of things that Obama does or wants to do sounds just like the antichrist. Just read all about both, they compare just like twins. If he is or is not, we will see one day, but he sure can be mistaken for him.


----------



## Spotlite (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Hmmm...how does that go along with Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.



That has already happened. Even in the communist nations.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Spotlite said:


> That has already happened. Even in the communist nations.



I have a friend that is still going Island to Island in the south Pacific working with natives that have never heard of Jesus...Another is in Africa working to reach Swahili speaking Arabs who have no idea who Jesus is...I have another that sends teams to Taiwan every month...etc, etc.

I'm sure that most of the nations on the planet have had some exposure...does that count?  Or are we supposed to do something more to "preach the gospel of this kingdom"?

Not to minimize the efforts of those who have gone, but I've never met a missionary that said, "Nah, no need to go there, we've shared the gospel with everyone."...


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Spotlite said:


> In all honesty, Lowjack may be on to something. Allot of things that Obama does or wants to do sounds just like the antichrist. Just read all about both, they compare just like twins. If he is or is not, we will see one day, but he sure can be mistaken for him.



I'm not a fan of the guy, but I have heard him say he is a Christian.

1John 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 

I think at the time he was being accused of being a Muslim or something like that...I don't recall the exact context of the statement, but it did strike me as interesting enough to take note.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Actually He made that covenant with Abram ( just nit picking since you've established yourself as superior to others here)...contextually, however, you couldn't miss the mark much farther than you did with that quote in response to my comments to you.
> 
> Your time spent among anti-Semites has left you with some baggage that you (apparently)  need to be set free from.



You seem to be filled with some anger there friend, Because certainly you don't sound like a brother to me.
He made that promised to Abraham and to all his seed, if you care to tested go ahead.

Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.  Galatians 3:15-18


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> One more thing while we're here...do you believe that since I disagree with you and made the observation that you come across like a "king James donkey", that I'm under a curse from God?
> 
> If so, what does that say about the sufficiency of the work of the cross and the fact that my faith has been placed in Jesus and His blood shed for ALL of my sins?  Or is disagreeing with you now an unpardonable sin?
> 
> As a Jew, do you believe that your Jewish heritage gives you a superiority to the born again Gentile?  My Bible says that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ...


Where is this superiority baloney coming from ?
I don't remember saying that to you or anyone, I remember you inferring that I think I'm superior, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder with Jews, which is really the sin.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 23, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Lowjack: “But Today's Obama's speech to the U.N. Calling for Israel to Stop and desist on building on what he called occupied territory by Jews and calling for the Divison of Jerusalem as a two Capital City and affirming " This will bring Peace and security, Remember that verse that says, when they say peace and security, then sudden destruction will come, This leaves no doubt in my mind , if he is not the Antichrist he is the Elijah of the false Messiah . . . “
> 
> Okay, so let me get this right – Your reading of Scripture tells you that Obama is the Antichrist you’ve been breathlessly awaiting, because he is opposed to the aggressive, imperialistic, militarily enforced expansionist tactics of Israel?  But, is that just because of the position he holds, or would everyone (most thinking people) who oppose these tactics count also?  Can there be a few billion Antichrists?  I’m opposed to the tactics Israel employs also, and have the added attraction of being an atheist, where Obama is a Christian, so wouldn’t I be a better candidate for the job?  I think it would look pretty good on my resume . . .
> 
> ...



Apparently more than one failed comprehension in School ?
That s really a shame going to school 12 years, and not being taught to understand what someone writes.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 24, 2009)

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=4062945#post4062945


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 24, 2009)

Lowjack:  “Apparently more than one failed comprehension in School ?
That s really a shame going to school 12 years, and not being taught to understand what someone writes.”

Sir, I appreciate the insult concerning my comprehension, and I appreciate your assumptions concerning my level of education, but I’m afraid that you are wrong on both counts.  Gosh.  How shocking!  

If you associate agreement with comprehension, then perhaps it is your own education that has failed you.  You said quite clearly, though you now offer insult rather than explication, that there is,” no doubt in (your) mind” that,  “ if he (Obama) is not the Antichrist he is the Elijah of the false Messiah . . . “   and you said quite clearly that you reached that conclusion because of a speech the man made , “. . .  to the U.N. Calling for Israel to Stop and desist on building on what he called occupied territory by Jews and calling for the Divison of Jerusalem as a two Capital City. . . “

Apparently more than one failed logic classes in School, which is really a shame after going to school for 3 years, and not being able to explain what one writes.  I ask, again, and quite clearly, if everyone who disagrees with Israeli policy in this regard is also the Antichrist, or if it is only Obama that you currently have in your sights?

You also said, quite clearly, that, “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.”   Hubris and passion aside this is clearly hyperbole, which makes a fine stance in a bully pulpit, but will require a bit of support as a statement of fact.  Further, using a fiction to support a single verse (Matthew 24:14) in a single book as proof that all of the conditions you wish fulfilled have, in fact been fulfilled is more than laughable.  This sort of thing goes beyond reaching and falls rather more squarely into wishing.

Have you got anything other than your own conclusions to back up those thoughts?  Extra-worldly communications?  Extraordinary insights?  A private line to the supernatural?  Oneness with the gestalt of the Universe?  A tremendous stock-pile of tin foil?


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Where is this superiority baloney coming from ?
> I don't remember saying that to you or anyone, I remember you inferring that I think I'm superior, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder with Jews, which is really the sin.



Yeah, you nailed it...Nothing gets past you!  

Is there an attitude of superiority in this?
"Apparently more than one failed comprehension in School ?  That s really a shame going to school 12 years, and not being taught to understand what someone writes. "

That is demeaning at best!

In reality, your problem with me comes from another thread...and therein lies your problem.  For you, there's an anti-Semite under every rock, around every corner and in every person who disagrees with you.  That's sad...


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> He made that promised to Abraham and to all his seed, if you care to tested go ahead.
> 
> Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.  Galatians 3:15-18



Read further-
Galatians 3:26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is NOT exclusive to Jews, Gentiles or anyone...it's exclusive to those who are in Christ.

And when God made that covenant, his name was Abram...
Genesis 12:1 The LORD had said to Abram....
3 I will bless those who bless you,
       and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
       will be blessed through you." A promise of the salvation that would be freely offered through Jesus Christ.

 4 So Abram left...

Yeah, his name becomes Abraham later, still, my tertiary point remains.


----------



## dawg2 (Sep 24, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> I have a friend that is still going Island to Island in the south Pacific working with natives that have never heard of Jesus...Another is in Africa working to reach Swahili speaking Arabs who have no idea who Jesus is...I have another that sends teams to Taiwan every month...etc, etc.
> 
> I'm sure that most of the nations on the planet have had some exposure...does that count?  Or are we supposed to do something more to "preach the gospel of this kingdom"?
> 
> Not to minimize the efforts of those who have gone, but I've never met a missionary that said, "Nah, no need to go there, we've shared the gospel with everyone."...



If the "Swahili speaking Arabs" are Muslim, I can assure you they have heard of Jesus.  Jesus is in the Koran.


----------



## rjcruiser (Sep 24, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> If the "Swahili speaking Arabs" are Muslim, I can assure you they have heard of Jesus.  Jesus is in the Koran.



He might be in the Koran...but the Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible.  If He was, their wouldn't be a Koran.


----------



## Spotlite (Sep 24, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> I have a friend that is still going Island to Island in the south Pacific working with natives that have never heard of Jesus...Another is in Africa working to reach Swahili speaking Arabs who have no idea who Jesus is...I have another that sends teams to Taiwan every month...etc, etc.
> 
> I'm sure that most of the nations on the planet have had some exposure...does that count?  Or are we supposed to do something more to "preach the gospel of this kingdom"?
> Not to minimize the efforts of those who have gone, but I've never met a missionary that said, "Nah, no need to go there, we've shared the gospel with everyone."...


Im sure all Nations have been exposed. Of all the exploration gone on, not once in the last 50 to 100 years have they found a new place on earth that no one has been. There are people right here in the USA that claim they have never heard of Jesus

And I agree, I dont think you will ever find a true called missionary that will say no need to go. Look at how many Pastors get in the pulpit Sunday after Sunday.



eleuthros1 said:


> I'm not a fan of the guy, but I have heard him say he is a Christian.
> 
> 1John 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
> 
> I think at the time he was being accused of being a Muslim or something like that...I don't recall the exact context of the statement, but it did strike me as interesting enough to take note.



The same also admitted having a muslim background, a hater of Christ. A lie dont care who tells it

Of course you can call anyone that denies Jesus an antichrist, we have some on this forum, but its not the prophecy spoken of by Daniel and found in Revelation concerning the end time, etc.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

dawg2 said:


> If the "Swahili speaking Arabs" are Muslim, I can assure you they have heard of Jesus.  Jesus is in the Koran.



That's true, He is.  But He is depicted as a prophet and teacher.  Not as the Messiah.  That doesn't qualify as preaching the gospel in my book.  There are many who have heard of Jesus who have no idea who he is.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Spotlite said:


> The same also admitted having a muslim background, a hater of Christ. A lie dont care who tells it


To clarify, true Muslims do not hate Christ.  And devout Muslims have told me that anyone who hates Jesus is doomed to the judgement of Allah...I was pretty shocked to hear that for the first time!



Spotlite said:


> Of course you can call anyone that denies Jesus an antichrist, we have some on this forum, but its not the prophecy spoken of by Daniel and found in Revelation concerning the end time, etc.


yep, and that was my exact point too.


----------



## Spotlite (Sep 24, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> To clarify, true Muslims do not hate Christ.



I guess it just depends on who they and I consider would be Christ. allah is not even in my dictionary.


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Spotlite said:


> I guess it just depends on who they and I consider would be Christ.



I agree, and therein lies the distinction between those who know of Jesus and those who know who He truly is...and that's the gospel which Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:14.


----------



## speechless33759 (Sep 24, 2009)

Lots have said Clinton was the Antichrist...even Bush!


----------



## eleuthros1 (Sep 24, 2009)

speechless33759 said:


> Lots have said Clinton was the Antichrist...even Bush!



Yeah, do you remember people saying that Wilson Ronald Reagan was the AC?  Because each of his names has 6 letters...666, the number of the beast...

Now if Obama is raised from the dead and performs miracles claiming to be the Christ then we can revisit this theory with some validity.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2009)

My Claim That Gospel has being preached to the whole world is an old argument,Jesus said go the all The World and deliver this Gospel.
But is this truly the intent of Jesus' bold proclamation? "Of course", we say. What else could Jesus have meant by "throughout the whole world"? Let's pause for a moment to consider the idea of what "world" meant in a first century Jewish context.

At first glance this sounds like a rather simple issue until we consider the fact that there are 287 usages of "world" in the KJV. For example, in the case of John 3:16, "For God so loved the world", the word "world" was translated from the Greek word kosmos. Did you know that in Strong's Greek concordance there are more than 8 potential definitions of kosmos. For centuries this most famous verse has been used as a proof text against the doctrine of sovereign grace (election) because it appears rather obvious that God loves every person in the "world", not just the "elect". (As a sidebar check out this video for a more thorough understanding of John 3:16 and particularly Jesus' use of "world")
So if you read the KJV, remember that "world" may not necessarily mean exactly what you think it means. In the KJV, the "end of the world'" found in Matthew 24:3, should read "end of the age" because the Greek word "aion" was incorrectly translated "world".
Let's look at another example of "world" and how it may have added confusion to our understanding of the question at hand: Has the Gospel been preached to "all the world"?

Luke 2:1 (KJV) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. Is this passage suggesting that the entire world is under the taxing authority of Rome? Of course not. In this verse, Luke uses oikoumene as the Greek word for "world". The NASB translation gives us greater insight into the word's actual meaning.

Luke 2:1 (NASB) Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. Did the decree go out to South America or the Far East? The Scriptures are Jewish. The NT is an extension of the OT and therefore must be viewed in that context. Up until Acts 10, what had been Jesus' stated mission and to whom was the early church sent to proclaim the Gospel? In Matthew 15:24 Jesus said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." In Matthew 10:5-6 we read, These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

This is the reason for Peter's strange vision of unclean meat which he finally understood as the ministry to the Gentiles. "Rise Peter, kill and eat". The Gospel was to go out to "all the world" not just the lost sheep. In Romans 9:25-26 Paul wrote, As He says also in Hosea, "I will call those who were not My people, 'My people ,' And her who was not beloved , 'beloved.' " 26 "And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people ,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." 

It's clear that the trickle of living water flowing from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 was to eventually include the Gentiles, however, if the "all nations" exhortation of Matthew 28 (great commission) was at that time intended to include the Gentiles, then not only would Peter's vision have been unnecessary but these devout disciples of Christ were derelict in their duties for at least 10 years.





Sometimes forgetting that these prophetic words were spoken by and directed to the Jews, we can skew our perceptions such that we think these early commands were understood to be global in nature. As we hearken back to Caesar's decree, "world" or "inhabited earth" apparently did not intend to include every person on the planet. It should be noted that if we do not read the Scriptures with the understanding that they were written in the context of the Hebreic culture, then we will forever be confused therefore causing us to develop misguided conclusions.




Let's move on to the content of the chart below. Consider the following prophesied verses (chart's left grid) and their corresponding fulfillments (right grid). I think you may be shocked to find the answers clearly embedded in the Word of God. We don't have to venture into subjective conjecture. The evidence is found within the greatest offensive weapon ever created--the Sword of Hebrews 4:12. How miraculously inspired is God's Word? The object of each specific gospel proclamation prophecy contains a Greek word that shows its fulfillment using that same Greek word. For example, "world" is used as oikoumene in Matthew 24:14 and kosmos in Mark 16:15 and in their fulfillments in Romans 10:18 and Romans 16:25-26 respectively.





The bottom line is that, much like the rest of Jesus' prophetic words in the Olivet Discourse, "Truly I say to you [the disciples], this generation [not 'that' generation] shall not pass away until all these things take place" (Matthew 24:34) was fulfilled within the "this generation" 40 year time referent [30-70 AD] just as it had been predicted.





Some admit, after considering "audience relevance", that the components of Matthew 24 did indeed come to pass between 30 and 70 AD (resurrection to holocaust). However, they conjecture that it will be fulfilled again sometime in our future.





The first question we should ask is, "Why?" What's the point other than to meet our presuppositional expectations? What would lead any of us to believe that these fulfillments were mere shadows of future fulfillments? Is there one shred of Scriptural evidence to support this conclusion? We have developed a "Groundhogs Day" mentality without realizing that the revelations of the New Covenant are the spiritual manifestations of Old Covenant mysteries.





The ensuing questions should be, "How can the Gospel be preached to "all the world" again?" (Matt 24:14) A little repetitive redundancy seemingly just to preserve our paradigm? How can 'the end' come more than once? (Matt 24:14) And how can there be a two 'great tribulations', "such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be." (Matt 24:19)





It's vitally important to know that Jesus' promises are always on time, in spite of our sometimes faithless proclivities to perpetually and perhaps unintentionally believe otherwise! I'm not casting stones here. I was in the same eschatological boat not very long ago. However, when someone threw me a lifeline, I decided to use it. It's great to be back in the boat! Things are making a whole lot more sense. God's Word is truly amazing!

But is this truly the intent of Jesus' bold proclamation? "Of course", we say. What else could Jesus have meant by "throughout the whole world"? Let's pause for a moment to consider the idea of what "world" meant in a first century Jewish context.





At first glance this sounds like a rather simple issue until we consider the fact that there are 287 usages of "world" in the KJV. For example, in the case of John 3:16, "For God so loved the world", the word "world" was translated from the Greek word kosmos. Did you know that in Strong's Greek concordance there are more than 8 potential definitions of kosmos. For centuries this most famous verse has been used as a proof text against the doctrine of sovereign grace (election) because it appears rather obvious that God loves every person in the "world", not just the "elect". (As a sidebar check out this video for a more thorough understanding of John 3:16 and particularly Jesus' use of "world")





So if you read the KJV, remember that "world" may not necessarily mean exactly what you think it means. In the KJV, the "end of the world'" found in Matthew 24:3, should read "end of the age" because the Greek word "aion" was incorrectly translated "world".





Let's look at another example of "world" and how it may have added confusion to our understanding of the question at hand: Has the Gospel been preached to "all the world"?





Luke 2:1 (KJV) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. Is this passage suggesting that the entire world is under the taxing authority of Rome? Of course not. In this verse, Luke uses oikoumene as the Greek word for "world". The NASB translation gives us greater insight into the word's actual meaning.




Luke 2:1 (NASB) Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. Did the decree go out to South America or the Far East? The Scriptures are Jewish. The NT is an extension of the OT and therefore must be viewed in that context. Up until Acts 10, what had been Jesus' stated mission and to whom was the early church sent to proclaim the Gospel? In Matthew 15:24 Jesus said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." In Matthew 10:5-6 we read, These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

This is the reason for Peter's strange vision of unclean meat which he finally understood as the ministry to the Gentiles. "Rise Peter, kill and eat". The Gospel was to go out to "all the world" not just the lost sheep. In Romans 9:25-26 Paul wrote, As He says also in Hosea, "I will call those who were not My people, 'My people ,' And her who was not beloved , 'beloved.' " 26 "And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people ,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." 

It's clear that the trickle of living water flowing from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 was to eventually include the Gentiles, however, if the "all nations" exhortation of Matthew 28 (great commission) was at that time intended to include the Gentiles, then not only would Peter's vision have been unnecessary but these devout disciples of Christ were derelict in their duties for at least 10 years.





Sometimes forgetting that these prophetic words were spoken by and directed to the Jews, we can skew our perceptions such that we think these early commands were understood to be global in nature. As we hearken back to Caesar's decree, "world" or "inhabited earth" apparently did not intend to include every person on the planet. It should be noted that if we do not read the Scriptures with the understanding that they were written in the context of the Hebreic culture, then we will forever be confused therefore causing us to develop misguided conclusions.




Let's move on to the content of the chart below. Consider the following prophesied verses (chart's left grid) and their corresponding fulfillments (right grid). I think you may be shocked to find the answers clearly embedded in the Word of God. We don't have to venture into subjective conjecture. The evidence is found within the greatest offensive weapon ever created--the Sword of Hebrews 4:12. How miraculously inspired is God's Word? The object of each specific gospel proclamation prophecy contains a Greek word that shows its fulfillment using that same Greek word. For example, "world" is used as oikoumene in Matthew 24:14 and kosmos in Mark 16:15 and in their fulfillments in Romans 10:18 and Romans 16:25-26 respectively.





The bottom line is that, much like the rest of Jesus' prophetic words in the Olivet Discourse, "Truly I say to you [the disciples], this generation [not 'that' generation] shall not pass away until all these things take place" (Matthew 24:34) was fulfilled within the "this generation" 40 year time referent [30-70 AD] just as it had been predicted.





Some admit, after considering "audience relevance", that the components of Matthew 24 did indeed come to pass between 30 and 70 AD (resurrection to holocaust). However, they conjecture that it will be fulfilled again sometime in our future.





The first question we should ask is, "Why?" What's the point other than to meet our presuppositional expectations? What would lead any of us to believe that these fulfillments were mere shadows of future fulfillments? Is there one shred of Scriptural evidence to support this conclusion? We have developed a "Groundhogs Day" mentality without realizing that the revelations of the New Covenant are the spiritual manifestations of Old Covenant mysteries.





The ensuing questions should be, "How can the Gospel be preached to "all the world" again?" (Matt 24:14) A little repetitive redundancy seemingly just to preserve our paradigm? How can 'the end' come more than once? (Matt 24:14) And how can there be a two 'great tribulations', "such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be." (Matt 24:19)





It's vitally important to know that Jesus' promises are always on time, in spite of our sometimes faithless proclivities to perpetually and perhaps unintentionally believe otherwise! I'm not casting stones here. I was in the same eschatological boat not very long ago. However, when someone threw me a lifeline, I decided to use it. It's great to be back in the boat! Things are making a whole lot more sense. God's Word is truly amazing!


Pastor Cody


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Lowjack:  “Apparently more than one failed comprehension in School ?
> That s really a shame going to school 12 years, and not being taught to understand what someone writes.”
> 
> Sir, I appreciate the insult concerning my comprehension, and I appreciate your assumptions concerning my level of education, but I’m afraid that you are wrong on both counts.  Gosh.  How shocking!
> ...



Just my demon radar when I see things like this;

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video...alPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2009)

So Going Back to the OP, Barack Obama said "by dividing Israel as two nations and Jerusalem as a two Capital City, we would accomplish Peace and security"

Jesus says, when they say peace and security then Sudden Destruction will come"

3 days after Obama said that, today this happens;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/


----------



## BeenHuntn (Sep 25, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Just my demon radar when I see things like this;
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video...alPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/



ubelievable.... that teacher needs to be fired. she is an instrument of the devil.  instead of teaching the kids to praise God... they are praising a man that puts his stamp of approval on 5,000 abortions every day in this country... we live in unreal times...

oh, i forgot to add... this president makes me sick...


----------



## earl (Sep 25, 2009)

It looks like reading tea leaves or entrails is easier than reading a bible that is so simple a child can understand it. If LJ is correct,the practice of leading children to Christ has to be a myth. Unless said child is a bible savant.


----------



## Dominic (Sep 25, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Didn't your friend get banned for personal attacks.









Lowjack said:


> Apparently more than one failed comprehension in School ?
> 
> That s really a shame going to school 12 years, and not being taught to understand what someone writes.









> GENERAL: Posts appear on the Forum as they are entered. It is impossible to monitor each post in real time. The Forum will strive to ensure that all posts are polite, professional and conform to a "G" rating due to an absence of violence, sexual content and strong language. Furthermore, it is the intent of the Forum to provide an atmosphere where every member, regardless of age, nationality, race, creed, political persuasion, sex, or *level of education*, shall be treated with the respect due them. This concept will be enforced with vigor.





Talk about your personal attacks


----------



## christianhunter (Sep 25, 2009)

earl said:


> It looks like reading tea leaves or entrails is easier than reading a bible that is so simple a child can understand it. If LJ is correct,the practice of leading children to Christ has to be a myth. Unless said child is a bible savant.



Et tu earl,everyone is down on Lowjack.Lowjack is a true Believer,and I feel this with all of my heart.He is a Pastor of 1 Church,and 1 Synagogue.Total of 4,200 members.He is wise and well versed in Scripture.I admit that he has some differences in our western way of Teaching,that may be from his heritage,but not his belief.One would be wise to listen to his teaching sometimes.I don't think Obama is "The" anti-christ,but I certainly feel like he may be an anti-christ.Some of you have truly blessed him(Lowjack),For the LORD said,"Blessed are those,who are persecuted for MY NAMES Sake".Lowjack is my Brother,and a good man,you do have to get to know him,he doesn't back down.


----------



## BeenHuntn (Sep 25, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> Et tu earl,everyone is down on Lowjack.Lowjack is a true Believer,and I feel this with all of my heart.He is a Pastor of 1 Church,and 1 Synagogue.Total of 4,200 members.He is wise and well versed in Scripture.I admit that he has some differences in our western way of Teaching,that may be from his heritage,but not his belief.One would be wise to listen to his teaching sometimes.I don't think Obama is "The" anti-christ,but I certainly feel like he may be an anti-christ.Some of you have truly blessed him(Lowjack),For the LORD said,"Blessed are those,who are persecuted for MY NAMES Sake".Lowjack is my Brother,and a good man,you do have to get to know him,he doesn't back down.



he is a good man... and he looks just like Barney Miller...


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2009)

BeenHuntn said:


> he is a good man... and he looks just like Barney Miller...



Being stopped in many airports and asked for my Autograph , Mr. Hal Linden Please, LOL
Too Funny you guys, I think I look like me.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 25, 2009)

I don't think he looks like me, I'm more handsome I think, and alive !

Hal Linden
AKA Harold Lipschitz

Born: 20-Mar-1931
Birthplace: Bronx, NY


Gender: Male
Religion: Jewish
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Actor

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Barney Miller

Military service: US Army (Korean War)


----------



## earl (Sep 25, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> Et tu earl,everyone is down on Lowjack.Lowjack is a true Believer,and I feel this with all of my heart.He is a Pastor of 1 Church,and 1 Synagogue.Total of 4,200 members.He is wise and well versed in Scripture.I admit that he has some differences in our western way of Teaching,that may be from his heritage,but not his belief.One would be wise to listen to his teaching sometimes.I don't think Obama is "The" anti-christ,but I certainly feel like he may be an anti-christ.Some of you have truly blessed him(Lowjack),For the LORD said,"Blessed are those,who are persecuted for MY NAMES Sake".Lowjack is my Brother,and a good man,you do have to get to know him,he doesn't back down.



Let me clearup the et tu. That was not a slam on LJ. I was commenting on his explanation of how difficult the bible is to read accurately. Protestants,in general, feel that they can read and interpret the bible and preach because ''they were called''.They also claim a high rate of salvation of young children. What I was trying to get a cross was that the bible is a difficult document for an adult to understand.If you take LJ's statement at face value, how many American Christians could say ''I knew that'' ? I ,for one have to really think about some of his words. 
  It would help if ''Pastor Cody''was explained . I seldcom if ever question LJ's proficiency in Hebrew or  Greek. I do question his antichrist theory and some of his end of the world scenerios. And I will say that is based on English translations of the bible.


----------



## earl (Sep 25, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> Et tu earl,everyone is down on Lowjack.Lowjack is a true Believer,and I feel this with all of my heart.He is a Pastor of 1 Church,and 1 Synagogue.Total of 4,200 members.He is wise and well versed in Scripture.I admit that he has some differences in our western way of Teaching,that may be from his heritage,but not his belief.One would be wise to listen to his teaching sometimes.I don't think Obama is "The" anti-christ,but I certainly feel like he may be an anti-christ.Some of you have truly blessed him(Lowjack),For the LORD said,"Blessed are those,who are persecuted for MY NAMES Sake".Lowjack is my Brother,and a good man,you do have to get to know him,he doesn't back down.



Please reread my post and insert any ones name in lieu of LJ's. No slam to LJ intended. After reading his post ,it makes me even more incredulous that some folks think I put too much emphasis on education. Nothing personal to any one person on this forum , but when you get into the linguistics like LJ does, I just can't see how some good ole boy who got a calling could figure out some of the things that LJ brings out on their own. And then to claim that the bible ,as they understand it, is so simple a child can understand it. 
 I  am not convinced that some of the ''backwoods unedjimikated ''preachers are up to snuff.


----------



## BeenHuntn (Sep 25, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> I don't think he looks like me, I'm more handsome I think, and alive !
> 
> Hal Linden
> AKA Harold Lipschitz
> ...



i didnt know that Hal was not his birth name... but now i know what his birth name was... i can see why he changed it.   i cant even read his last name without feeling the need to repent...   

so, LJ, how much did your Glamour Shots photo set you back??


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 26, 2009)

BeenHuntn said:


> i didnt know that Hal was not his birth name... but now i know what his birth name was... i can see why he changed it.   i cant even read his last name without feeling the need to repent...
> 
> so, LJ, how much did your Glamour Shots photo set you back??



About .30 cents, LOL
We have a lot of young people in our church some are professional photographers and work in the Commercial art business, we are truly blessed to have people from all walks of life.
Besides that's a passport type photo.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 26, 2009)

MustangMAtt30 said:


> Lowjack, what do Karaite Jews believe about Jesus?
> 
> Are you a believer that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God?
> 
> Not ripping you, just trying to understand.


Karaite Jews Believe , if it is not in the Torah
Then it is not a doctrine and shouldn't be observe.
Karaite Jews are very Observant of the written word, most say "If Yeshua is the Messiah, then let him come back nd set the world straight" If he was not the messiah he has wasted a lot of time from people.

If he is then it is God's will.
Karaite Jews believe we have entered the time of the Coming of the Messiah in the year 5770 (2009-2010)
And people should be waiting for him.
So their view is more open than say Orthodox Jews or reformed Jews, certainly more than secular Jews who believe in everything except God.


----------



## christianhunter (Sep 26, 2009)

earl said:


> Please reread my post and insert any ones name in lieu of LJ's. No slam to LJ intended. After reading his post ,it makes me even more incredulous that some folks think I put too much emphasis on education. Nothing personal to any one person on this forum , but when you get into the linguistics like LJ does, I just can't see how some good ole boy who got a calling could figure out some of the things that LJ brings out on their own. And then to claim that the bible ,as they understand it, is so simple a child can understand it.
> I  am not convinced that some of the ''backwoods unedjimikated ''preachers are up to snuff.



earl,when a man is truley called of GOD the HOLY SPIRIT guides him,on what to say.Billy Graham once said in one of his books and I agree.In order to read Scripture Inspired by THE HOLY SPIRIT,and understand it fully,you must be helped to understand it,by the help of THE HOLY SPIRIT.I had an Aunt who my Grandmother took out of school in the third grade,to help tend to my mother,and aunt and uncles.She called me years ago,and asked me how could she understand it?(the KJV Bible)
I suggested she pray and ask THE LORD for wisdom,and understanding of The Scriptures.She called me a few weeks later,and said she could read it as well as anything else after she prayed.


----------



## earl (Sep 26, 2009)

I'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## christianhunter (Sep 26, 2009)

earl said:


> I'll have to agree to disagree.



I don't know which part you disagree with,but given our renewed relationship.I find it a little disconcerting,that you would blatantly refer to my testimony above as a lie.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 26, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> I don't know which part you disagree with,but given our renewed relationship.I find it a little disconcerting,that you would blatantly refer to my testimony above as a lie.



"To The Natural man the things of God are craziness", they cannot understand the word without the Holy Spirit, thus the unbelief, the mocking and insults.
We scare them.
Shalom


----------



## earl (Sep 27, 2009)

I disagree with the part about only needing the Holy Spirit to be able to understand the bible. I think I would have used PM's if I had a problem with the SUBSTANCE of your post . I fail to see where I used ''lie'' in a 6 word sentence. All that rain got you feeling grouchy ?


----------



## StriperAddict (Sep 27, 2009)

earl said:


> I disagree with the part about only needing the Holy Spirit to be able to understand the bible.


 
Sorry to hear that.  But openeing God's word without inspiration from the author is the main reason there is so much deception in the world.

It would be good of any of us to pray and ask for help with the scriptures every time we study.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Sep 27, 2009)

That link takes me to "Fed didn't police subprime loan abuses".  Is that your proof positive of President Obama's identity of the antichrist, really?


----------



## christianhunter (Sep 28, 2009)

*"I'AM That I'AM"*

The True NAME Of GOD is so Holy,a devout Jew will not utter or spell it.In this day of taking HIS name in vain,and using HIS name in parodies and jokes.There is no wonder,the state, that the world is in.While a devout Jew,does not recognize The NAME of JESUS yet(as far as being GOD),they will,as THE HOLY ONE Of Israel.No name has influenced or affected,the world,more than The Name of JESUS.No name ever will,as HIS NAME is above all names,in Heaven,and on earth.The NAME of JESUS,was,is,and will always be,The NAME of Salvation.HE divides the "wheat"and the "tares".Who really is the wheat,and who are really the tares?


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 28, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> The True NAME Of GOD is so Holy,a devout Jew will not utter or spell it.In this day of taking HIS name in vain,and using HIS name in parodies and jokes.There is no wonder,the state, that the world is in.While a devout Jew,does not recognize The NAME of JESUS yet(as far as being GOD),they will,as THE HOLY ONE Of Israel.No name has influenced or affected,the world,more than The Name of JESUS.No name ever will,as HIS NAME is above all names,in Heaven,and on earth.The NAME of JESUS,was,is,and will always be,The NAME of Salvation.HE divides the "wheat"and the "tares".Who really is the wheat,and who are really the tares?



A big Amen To that !


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 28, 2009)

Okay, I’ve seen it all now – This is positively Clintonian, and both asks and tries to explain what the definition of ‘is’ is.   Unbelievable rationalizations, strained beyond any measure of reason, usually require one to become so terribly verbose as to wear folks down – but still, let us synthesize:

LJ states: “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.”  (post #5)   Seems pretty clearly stated to me . . .   “every,”  meaning what it says,  “Human,” capitalized so there can be no misinterpretation, “on earth,” which is generally defined as a planet, and “as it is today,” clearly meaning currently.   So the statement stands as stated: “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.”  

But, wait!  Questions were raised concerning that statement (the heavens forfend!), and a sudden retreat was made into mealy-mouthed unsupportable nonsense aimed at defense.  To whit: “Let's pause for a moment to consider the idea of what "world" meant in a first century Jewish context.”   

No.  Let’s don’t.  You didn’t say ‘world,’ sir, you said ‘earth as it is today.’  Then, further running from the thought, we get this – “Sometimes forgetting that these prophetic words were spoken by and directed to the Jews, we can skew our perceptions such that we think these early commands were understood to be global in nature. As we hearken back to Caesar's decree, "world" or "inhabited earth" apparently did not intend to include every person on the planet. It should be noted that if we do not read the Scriptures with the understanding that they were written in the context of the Hebreic culture, then we will forever be confused therefore causing us to develop misguided conclusions.”

I’d think one might hesitate to so freely mix the Hebrew world view and the Judaic interpretations with a defense of Jesus and the Gospels, if only because the two views cancel each other.  The Judaic view is that the Savior of their fantasies has not yet arrived, while the Christian fantasy is that this has indeed occurred.  So, while you back away and scramble for coherence, do you really mean to say that, “these prophetic words were spoken by and directed to the Jews?”   Does this not say aloud that someone other than your god (i.e. the ‘Jews’) spoke the words you simultaneously quote as Biblical?           What gives?    Which was it?

And where is Caesar mentioned in the either book of the Bible?  From what possible bit of equivocating rationalization can some thought of his that the ‘world’ might have meant only the world he knew be extended to defend your statement that, “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today?”

And if the Scriptures can only be understood in the context of the Hebrew culture in which they were written, does this not further distance these writings from the hand of some God who purportedly wrote them Himself?  And does it not make these writings impossible for anyone other than someone such as yourself to understand, giving the automatic lie to the accessibility of these ‘Scriptures’ to any interpretation or reading other than your own?  You did just say, after all, that the actual meaning of the word ‘world,’ “apparently did not intend to include every person on the planet.”                        Wow.          Perhaps the word ‘world’ can be found in some other historic usage, such as the Zen usage for example, or in the Tao, to mean only your own personal view, thus defending the position that only you, personally, have access. 

But here we go again --   The nauseatingly extended lecture and defense did not address your assertion – it distanced you from it, and asked us to be dazzled by false and deliberately misdirecting erudition.  This is a fine rhetorical technique in the pulpit, especially when dealing with children and most especially when your positions are mutually exclusive, illogical, defy all theological thought, and are indefensible on every level.  But I must say, as rational, connected ideologies go, rhetorical excess is rather a poor substitute for actual thought.

(By the way – and a man of your learning certainly is aware – insulting a crowd such as this by bringing up the condescending idea of “ . . . after considering "audience relevance" . . .” is the sort of thing that is so transparently dismissive of those you deign to preach at that anyone with half a brain would walk out at the mention of the phrase . . .  Which part of your presumed ‘audience,’ Sir, do you deem to be relevant, and which do you not deem to be?) 

And finally:  “To The Natural man the things of God are craziness", they cannot understand the word without the Holy Spirit, thus the unbelief, the mocking and insults. We scare them.”        Why yes you do, but less by your beliefs, which we have learned to tolerate and make rational progress on this planet in spite of, than by your vehemence and persistence in making rash assertions and defending them with little more than smoke screens while you run from them and hide behind the skirts of your invisible defenders . . .


----------



## BeenHuntn (Sep 29, 2009)

sounds like socrates has been reincarnated as bertrand russell...


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 29, 2009)

BeenHuntn said:


> sounds like socrates has been reincarnated as bertrand russell...


Yep except Socrates wasn't


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 29, 2009)

Qed.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 29, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Qed.



Easily !


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 29, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> Okay, I’ve seen it all now – This is positively Clintonian, and both asks and tries to explain what the definition of ‘is’ is.   Unbelievable rationalizations, strained beyond any measure of reason, usually require one to become so terribly verbose as to wear folks down – but still, let us synthesize:
> 
> LJ states: “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.”  (post #5)   Seems pretty clearly stated to me . . .   “every,”  meaning what it says,  “Human,” capitalized so there can be no misinterpretation, “on earth,” which is generally defined as a planet, and “as it is today,” clearly meaning currently.   So the statement stands as stated: “The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.”
> 
> ...



Look up Olam and Eretz in Hebrew then you will see what I'm talking about and perhaps show your Ignorance even better.


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 29, 2009)

LJ:  Easily?

Quod Erat Demonstratum?  You mean to defend your thought by deflecting me to look  up “Olam and Eretz in Hebrew ?”   Sounds like a song lyric – Oh!  It is!  Cool!  Eretz Yisra'el : the Land of Palestine, oh, wait, no – the Land of Israel, which did not exist until 1948, and so was not actually referred to . . .  Before that it was Caanan, was it not, before the people of Moses returned and slaughtered their previously gracious hosts?   And which Olam?  Olam Haba, which is the world to come, or Olam Hazeh, which is the present age?  

So the Hebrew words for the land of Israel that are either to come or already exist are the proof of your contention that the Gospel of Jesus has already been preached to every human on earth as it is today?  Is the fact that the language contains those words your entire argument?  The English Language contains the words ‘charlaltan,’ ‘proselytizer,’ and ‘fraud.’  Go figure.        

I’m afraid that knife won’t cut.  Got anything other than a few mystical words in Hebrew that you alone see the significance of by way of argument or defense of that original contention?  That one, to go and look up some words in a foreign language,  was a non-sequitur of the first order, and I fail to see how your inability or unwillingness to defend your words in plain language and actual logic reveals someone else’s Ignorance.  Some of us are neither dazzled nor intimidated by your odd ability to dance around the issues you raise then alternately run away from, or, when cornered, seek to berate questioners with some strange form of unrelated erudition.  If you wish only to preach utter nonsense and be relieved of the responsibility to defend it then simply say so, and we will leave you in peace to impress the heck out of yourself.       

But be very careful with the accusations you make, Sir, and be even more careful about the directions in which you indiscriminately hurl them.  Some of us do not belong to worshiping flocks, seeking your wisdom as our shepherd, and we are given to asking inconvenient questions.  The bulk of your writings are internally inconsistent, contradictory, situational, intellectually and philosophically indefensible, dualistic at best and ill-considered at worst – So what say ye?

“The Gospel Of Jesus the Messiah has being preached to every Human on earth as it is today.” 

Your words.  Stand by them, or do not.


----------



## BeenHuntn (Sep 29, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Yep except Socrates wasn't



yeh but bertrand was crazy....


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 29, 2009)

Diogenes said:


> LJ:  Easily?
> 
> Quod Erat Demonstratum?  You mean to defend your thought by deflecting me to look  up “Olam and Eretz in Hebrew ?”   Sounds like a song lyric – Oh!  It is!  Cool!  Eretz Yisra'el : the Land of Palestine, oh, wait, no – the Land of Israel, which did not exist until 1948, and so was not actually referred to . . .  Before that it was Caanan, was it not, before the people of Moses returned and slaughtered their previously gracious hosts?   And which Olam?  Olam Haba, which is the world to come, or Olam Hazeh, which is the present age?
> 
> ...


If you belong to any kind of Flock called Christian you wouldn't be attacking me in such a way, your wisdom is like the wind, it has no substance, denying the existence of Israel won't get you very far , sir.
All that rhetorics about Palestine and Israel becoming Israel after 1948 shows , you flock or your teacher practice what is called " replacement Theology" a Theology sprung from the very gates of hades.
Eretz happens to be Not Just Israel but the word Found through out the OT to referred to Land, Dirt, Earth and in some verses mistranslated to mean "World"In Genesis Both Eretz and Olam are found, but I guess you wouldn't know that since your flock only cares about their interpretation of things, you have proved yourself worthy to be in my list alone with that ham feller in ignore.
Shalom


----------



## Diogenes (Sep 29, 2009)

I guess that means that you do not.


----------



## Lowjack (Sep 29, 2009)

This message is hidden because Diogenes is on your ignore list.


----------

