# A lost sheep



## spurrs and racks (Jun 20, 2019)

Matthew 18 12:14

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 20, 2019)

Here we goooooo


----------



## bullethead (Jun 20, 2019)

Jesus wanted to gather and keep the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus was a Jew. He was not out to start a new religion around him. He preached of apocalyptic consequences to those who did not keep and follow the Torah.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 20, 2019)

Maybe the sheep didn't "be gone astray".
Maybe the sheep purposely said "I'm outta here".


----------



## welderguy (Jun 20, 2019)

bullethead said:


> He preached of apocalyptic consequences to those who did not keep and follow the Torah.



Show me this.


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 20, 2019)

Is this the apologetics aisle or proselytization aisle?


----------



## bullethead (Jun 20, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Show me this.


Did you ever read Revelation?


----------



## spurrs and racks (Jun 20, 2019)

*John 10:10 “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.”*

The media and even family and friends, can tear us down and discourage us in our daily journey through life. Discouragement, sadness, and hopelessness permeate our society, and depression runs rampant as well. Jesus himself, though, reminds us in this verse that he came to give us abundant life. I believe that means that our walk with him can be fun, exciting and a daily adventure. The Lord gives us vision and purpose and power in our quest through life, and there is never a dull moment in the Kingdom of God.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 20, 2019)

Wrong Forum S&R


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 20, 2019)

If you don't have any plans to discuss/debate, you couldve just posted the link and we could have read it for ourselves.


> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/chris...top-7-bible-verses-to-share-with-unbelievers/


----------



## welderguy (Jun 20, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Did you ever read Revelation?



Yep.
Show me which part says what you stated about keeping and following the Torah.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 20, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Yep.
> Show me which part says what you stated about keeping and following the Torah.


Matthew 5:17-19

*17* Think not that I am come todestroy the law, or the prophets: Iam not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

*18* For verily I say unto you,Till heaven and earth pass, one jotor one tittle shall in no wise passf rom the law, till all be fulfilled.

*19* Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Torah is the Law


----------



## welderguy (Jun 20, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Matthew 5:17-19
> 
> *17* Think not that I am come todestroy the law, or the prophets: Iam not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
> 
> ...



Jesus fulfilled the law for us, because we could not keep it.
Do you see the mistake in your statement?


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 21, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Jesus fulfilled the law for us, because we could not keep it.
> Do you see the mistake in your statement?



Heaven and Earth are still here and revelation indicates all is not yet fulfilled. Unless you’re a preterist...


----------



## bullethead (Jun 21, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Jesus fulfilled the law for us, because we could not keep it.
> Do you see the mistake in your statement?


So when did all this happen? The entire world missed it.


----------



## welderguy (Jun 21, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> Heaven and Earth are still here and revelation indicates all is not yet fulfilled. Unless you’re a preterist...



All things are fulfilled. Just because we can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not.

Heb. 2:8-9
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


----------



## welderguy (Jun 21, 2019)

bullethead said:


> So when did all this happen? The entire world missed it.



At Calvary.....when He said "It is finished", He meant it.
...and not all missed it.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 21, 2019)

Welder, the earth, the world, humanity has gone on with nothing changed. The timeline in the bible has come and gone without anything happening.


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 21, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Welder, the earth, the world, humanity has gone on with nothing changed. The timeline in the bible has come and gone without anything happening.


Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean that it hasnt.
Therefore it has.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 21, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean that it hasnt.
> Therefore it has.


Yeah! 
I guess it is not hard to imagine the results you NEED when your entire belief system relies on the imagination of relationships,  conversations, Izzycourse with a dead guy, flying zombies,  AND an Invisible Sky Daddy


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 21, 2019)

welderguy said:


> All things are fulfilled. Just because we can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not.
> 
> Heb. 2:8-9
> 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
> ...



That’s funny because your religious text has a final book called Revelation that describes events most Christians expect to happen in the future in order to fulfill prophecy yet unfulfilled. Guess those Christians didn’t get the memo along with the rest of the world that all is fulfilled and heaven and earth have passed away. Even though we are still here on the earth.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 21, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> That’s funny because your religious text has a final book called Revelation that describes events most Christians expect to happen in the future in order to fulfill prophecy yet unfulfilled. Guess those Christians didn’t get the memo along with the rest of the world that all is fulfilled and heaven and earth have passed away. Even though we are still here on the earth.


He acknowledged that he is familiar with Revelation earlier when I asked. The events must have happened in imaginary land where it does not need to be seen, just believed.


----------



## welderguy (Jun 21, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> That’s funny because your religious text has a final book called Revelation that describes events most Christians expect to happen in the future in order to fulfill prophecy yet unfulfilled. Guess those Christians didn’t get the memo along with the rest of the world that all is fulfilled and heaven and earth have passed away. Even though we are still here on the earth.



Key here is it's spiritual, not so much physical. But even the physical is a done deal, when in the realm of timelessness.
For example, He was as a lamb slain before the foundation of the world.


----------



## bullethead (Jun 21, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Key here is it's spiritual, not so much physical. But even the physical is a done deal, when in the realm of timelessness.
> For example, He was as a lamb slain before the foundation of the world.


Good luck with that.
Spiritual Convenience..... I like that


----------



## welderguy (Jun 21, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Good luck with that.
> Spiritual Convenience..... I like that



No "luck" needed.


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 21, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Key here is it's spiritual, not so much physical. But even the physical is a done deal, when in the realm of timelessness.
> For example, He was as a lamb slain before the foundation of the world.



So the events predicted in Revelation won't be physical? If you say so.


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 21, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Good luck with that.
> Spiritual Convenience..... I like that



Was what I expected.


----------



## welderguy (Jun 22, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> So the events predicted in Revelation won't be physical? If you say so.



Many, if not most, of the things spoken of in the Revelation are for the here and now. It applies to us spiritually, while still in our physical bodies.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Jun 24, 2019)

spurrs and racks said:


> Matthew 18 12:14
> 
> 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
> 
> ...


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jun 24, 2019)

John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

I guess even a sheep that normally follows can occasionally go astray. Maybe they eventually hear the voice again when the Shepherd gets near.


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 24, 2019)

My sheep are all bound for the dinner table.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Jun 24, 2019)

atlashunter said:


> My sheep are all bound for the dinner table.


I could go for a nice Gyro! Not too crazy for Mutton though.


----------



## ambush80 (Jun 24, 2019)

spurrs and racks said:


> Matthew 18 12:14
> 
> 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
> 
> ...



An all powerful being need not let them.  But he do.  And he may even inflict needless suffering on them on Earth before he torments them forever.


----------



## ky55 (Jun 24, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> An all powerful being need not let them.  But he do.  And he may even inflict needless suffering on them on Earth before he torments them forever.



No big deal. They were worthless when they were born. 
They deserve it.


----------



## ambush80 (Jun 24, 2019)

ky55 said:


> No big deal. They were worthless when they were born.
> They deserve it.




But....red,yellow, black and white.  All are precious in His sight.

This is such low hanging fruit.  It's not even mildly amusing to debate.


----------



## redwards (Jun 24, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> But....red,yellow, black and white.  All are precious in His sight.
> 
> This is such low hanging fruit.  It's not even mildly amusing to debate.



A C. S. Lewis quote on pride.

"Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man... It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition is gone, pride is gone."


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 25, 2019)

Better pride where it is warranted than faith where it isn’t.


----------



## ambush80 (Jun 25, 2019)

redwards said:


> A C. S. Lewis quote on pride.
> 
> "Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man... It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition is gone, pride is gone."



Ridiculous.  Pride can be felt in a personal achievement, though it be sub standard compared to anyone else.

What's more prideful, to believe one has a mainline to God's ear or to claim agnosticism about things one doesn't have any real knowledge of?


----------



## welderguy (Jun 25, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Ridiculous.  Pride can be felt in a personal achievement, though it be sub standard compared to anyone else.
> 
> What's more prideful, to believe one has a mainline to God's ear or to claim agnosticism about things one doesn't have any real knowledge of?



Neither.
Both are just being who they truly are. No?


----------



## 660griz (Jun 25, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Neither.
> Both are just being who they truly are. No?


So, as long as you are truly prideful, that is ok?


----------



## welderguy (Jun 25, 2019)

660griz said:


> So, as long as you are truly prideful, that is ok?



By whose standard? And who judges?


----------



## 660griz (Jun 25, 2019)

welderguy said:


> By whose standard? And who judges?


You answering a question with a question.


----------



## welderguy (Jun 25, 2019)

660griz said:


> You answering a question with a question.



Why?


----------



## 660griz (Jun 26, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Why?


Really?


----------



## ambush80 (Jun 26, 2019)

welderguy said:


> Neither.
> Both are just being who they truly are. No?



Are you refuting the Lewis quote, too?


----------



## atlashunter (Jun 26, 2019)

welderguy said:


> By whose standard? And who judges?



Who is there to judge?


----------



## redwards (Jun 26, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Ridiculous.  Pride can be felt in a personal achievement, though it be sub standard compared to anyone else.
> 
> What's more prideful, to believe one has a mainline to God's ear or to claim agnosticism about things one doesn't have any real knowledge of?



"Well, the walls of pride are high and wide
Can't see over to the other side
It's such a sad thing to see beauty decay
It's sadder still to feel your heart turn away"

BOB DYLAN, "Cold Irons Bound", _Time Out of Mind_


----------



## WaltL1 (Jun 26, 2019)

redwards said:


> "Well, the walls of pride are high and wide
> Can't see over to the other side
> It's such a sad thing to see beauty decay
> It's sadder still to feel your heart turn away"
> ...


That's a song about a failed marriage.
Im not making the connection.
But if we want to cherry pick words in it, how about -

Up over my head nothing but clouds of blood
I found my own, I found my one in you
But your love just hasn't proved true
I'm 20 miles out of town, Cold Irons bound

But great tune


----------

