# The real facts on Pitts and Rottis



## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

Lee    its time you face the facts I too own a breed that has tendencies to be dangerous, I own a Rottweiler. My Rotti wouldn't hurt a fly but does that mean the breed doesn't have a tendency to be dangerous NO IT DOESN"T

According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/...-S-Canada-September-1982-to-December-22-2009\

From 1982 to 2006 in the US and Canada there were 345 deaths due to Dog attacks Pitt Bull Terriers were responsible for 153 of those deaths or roughly 44% and  Rottweilers which were responsible for 67 deaths or roughly 19% .So you've got 220 deaths or 63% of the total of 345 deaths were cause by PittBull Terriers and Rottweilers.
Does this mean that it is only Pitt Bulls and Rotti causing deaths of course not, any dog in the wrong sitution can cause death. What it does mean because of the strength and disposition of these 2 breeds they can be dangerous more so than all the other breeds combined.
You post endlessly to defend your choosen breed but when you look at the totals your arguements don't hold water. I think you are doing a diservice to the breed by convincing people these dogs are not dangerous and lead people to belive they do not need more precautions to keep others safe from these dogs. As more well intentioned but misinformed people obtain these breeds more people are hurt. WHEN 67% OF ALL HUMAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DOG ATTACKS ARE CAUSED BY JUST 2 BREEDS IN A 24 YEAR PERIOD THAT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
Now having had said all that do I think Pitts And Rottis should be outlawed, banned or restricted ? NO I DON"T
I do think your energy could be better spent educating owners and future owners of these breeds as to what the dangers are and how to better train these dogs so these tragedies don't happen with these breeds anymore than they do with all other breeds.


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## SouthernBeagles (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia.......This is what we have been saying to Lee all along. I don't think any of us want to see any breed banned. We have argued with Lee till we are blue in the face but he just doesn't seem to get it. These breeds cause more deaths and maulings than the other breeds and shouldn't be promoted as kid safe, loving, pooches. They are what they are and the people that choose these breeds should consider them a loaded gun. A loaded gun is safe in the right hands, but in the wrong hands or in the untrained persons hands, they are deadly.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

> the people that choose these breeds should consider them a loaded gun. A loaded gun is safe in the right hands, but in the wrong hands or in the untrained persons hands, they are deadly.



Well Said Beagles


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## kgo (Aug 22, 2010)

Well said,I used to own rottis now I have american bulldogs and facts are facts some dogs are more capable of these type things and to ignore that is wrong. That said in this day and age I  think a big dog is the best home protection you can have.K


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

this same thing was said about gsd and chows but you dont heart it any more why because they are not being over bred they are not the so call cool dog any more but in there day when every one had one they to were consider the dangerous breed and they were on bsl list then it was the rotties now it is the pit bull. the fact is behind every bad dog is a worse owner and that dont just go for people that abuse the dogs it go's for people that fail to mane Taine control of there dog 

the fact is  there are way more pit bulls then most any other breed so  it would stand to reason that you are more likely to have  a problem with a pit bull rather then another breed 


also how mean coon  dogs do you see living in the  see i dont know of any near me all my buddy's that have them live way back in the  sticks so they really dont  come in to contact with strangers very often


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## SouthernBeagles (Aug 22, 2010)

Lee Beagles are everywhere! House pets, hunting dogs, show dogs, they are at the top of the AKC registry. I would gamble to say that there are more beagles out there than Bulldogs. So why aren't we seeing these pack of beagles attacking and killing people? 
Size? Temperment? yep. You are still missing the point.
Oh and for the record, I don't trust a chow either.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Aug 22, 2010)

I don't trust any dog. Heck a Pom killed an infant not too long ago. But if you own a "pit" and say that you do not fight it then why do you pump it with steroids, weight/muscle gain??? Lee you have stated that you do that in the past.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> this same thing was said about gsd and chows but you dont heart it any more why because they are not being over bred they are not the so call cool dog any more but in there day when every one had one they to were consider the dangerous breed and they were on bsl list then it was the rotties now it is the pit bull. the fact is behind every bad dog is a worse owner and that dont just go for people that abuse the dogs it go's for people that fail to mane Taine control of there dog
> 
> the fact is  there are way more pit bulls then most any other breed so  it would stand to reason that you are more likely to have  a problem with a pit bull rather then another breed
> 
> ...



Ok LEE I'm calling you out where is your info to support those facts you just stated. Lets see some numbers to support your facts that the Pitt and Rotti have been breed in huge numbers and therefore there are 67% more of these 2 breeds  than all other breeds   to support your logic that is what your are saying


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

> the fact is there are way more pit bulls then most any other breed so it would stand to reason that you are more likely to have a problem with a pit bull rather then another breed



Lee here are more facts that shoot holes in your statments

2009 American Kennel Club list of favorite breeds
1. Lababor Retriever
2. German Shepard
3. Yorkshire Terrier
4. Golden Retreiver
5. Beagle
6. Boxer
7. Bulldog (English)
8. Dachshund
9. Poodle
10.Shih Tzu

So by your logic that they are way more Pitts bred every year than other breeds yet they are not even in the top ten in popularity....Ok Lee where are you getting your info..making it up to support your beliefs


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

Where are you at Lee???
Researching  more Pomeranian attacks I guess


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

call your  local shelter they are over ran with pit bulls

look on this form $100 pups all the time 

go to craigslist pit bull be pouring out tha hood

kijji pits pit bull all day every day  

most of these dogs are not register

i do rescue work and rehome dogs all the time i have even rehomed a few on here


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee here are more facts that shoot holes in your statments
> 
> 2009 American Kennel Club list of favorite breeds
> 1. Lababor Retriever
> ...



they probly based that off of there regester list and they  dont rester apbt


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

UKC Announces its Top Breeds for 2009
 Posted on 03/03/2010
Permanent Link



UKC Announces its Top Breeds for 2009



For more information, contact Tanya Raab at traab@ukcdogs.com
Kalamazoo, Michigan, March 1, 2010 – In carrying on a long-standing tradition, the United Kennel Club is pleased to announce its Top Ten registered purebred dog breeds for 2009. This list, based on UKC registration figures, identifies recent trends in purebred dog ownership and foreshadows what can be expected for purebred dog registration in the upcoming year. Each Breed represented in the Top Ten reflects the Total Dog philosophy that is the backbone of United Kennel Club. Truly – “Our Dogs Do Stuff!”
The Top Ten breeds include: 
1. Treeing Walker Coonhound (Scenthound Group)
2. American Pit Bull Terrier (Terrier Group)
3. Bluetick Coonhound (Scenthound Group)
4. English Coonhound (Scenthound Group)
5. American Black & Tan Coonhound (Scenthound Group)
6. Redbone Coonhound (Scenthound Group)
7. Plott Hound (Scenthound Group)
8. Beagle (Scenthound Group)
9. Labrador Retriever (Gun Dog Group)
10. Rat Terrier (Terrier Group


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> UKC Announces its Top Breeds for 2009
> Posted on 03/03/2010
> Permanent Link
> 
> ...



Ok those are facts now you got to cover the numbers you said that there are more Pitts than any other Breed so thats what breed that is encountered so by your logic
since Pitts and Rottis account for 67% of all human deaths due to dog attack and it's more about what breed you encounter and since  that would mean that of the 77.5 million  dogs in the US (fact from the Humane Socitey)  then 67% of 77.5 million is... 51,925,000 of them would have to be Pitts and Rottis for your Logic to hold true.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

So if there isn't 51.9 million Pitts and Rottis in the Us and Canada your agurment isn't worth spit


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## bkl021475 (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee    its time you face the facts I too own a breed that has tendencies to be dangerous, I own a Rottweiler. My Rotti wouldn't hurt a fly but does that mean the breed doesn't have a tendency to be dangerous NO IT DOESN"T
> 
> According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/...-S-Canada-September-1982-to-December-22-2009\
> ...



Well said by a responsible owner!


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Ok those are facts now you got to cover the numbers you said that there are more Pitts than any other Breed so thats what breed that is encountered so by your logic
> since Pitts and Rottis account for 67% of all human deaths due to dog attack and it's more about what breed you encounter and since  that would mean that of the 77.5 million  dogs in the US (fact from the Humane Socitey)  then 67% of 77.5 million is... 51,925,000 of them would have to be Pitts and Rottis for your Logic to hold true.



what


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

There is 4.5 million registered pit bull and a least that many that are not. There are about half of that number of rotts. Bite sats are at the best iffy. Pit bulls are the most missed id ed dog. A test given to AC officers show 90% of them could not pick a pit bull out in three trys. If you do not beleive my take a look and see if you can:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…
They say 90% of pits are put down. This is do to how misrepersnted pits are in the media. When a dogattack happens if it by one of the "warm and fuzzy" family breeds it is not reported or misreported as a pit attack quite often on purson to make the story better


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

man how long are we going to go at it


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

just go a head and say your mind is made up. and agree to diss agree


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## SouthernBeagles (Aug 22, 2010)

Wait a min..........
Explain this Lee 





> The United Kennel Club standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier is rather sparse. The dog is square and powerful with a blocky head, prominent cheeks and jaw, and taut, muscular body. He has a deep chest, and a short, glossy coat of any color. His ears may be cropped or not. Size can range from 30- 50 pounds for females and 35-60 pounds for males. Although they are from the same stock and meet the same criteria as the AKC American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terriers cannot be registered as an AmStaffs, but AmStaffs are admitted to the APBT registry



So are they the same dog or not? According to your UKC they are the same breed AmStaff and APBT). Akc just won't take a grade dog.

If they ARE the same dog.....then AKC has the AmStaffs WAY down the list unlike the UKC who has them at #2........Even still in your top 10 UKC list, 7 of the top 10 dogs are scent hounds. Why is it that coon hounds and beagles aren't on the dangerous breed list?


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

ok here we go again


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Wait a min..........
> Explain this Lee
> 
> So are they the same dog or not? According to your UKC they are the same breed AmStaff and APBT). Akc just won't take a grade dog.
> ...



no they are not the same. akc does not recognized apbt because  back in the day they were bred with more thought given to there working ability rather then  confirmation so people started breeding big bone apbt pretty much and called them am staffs ,then about 20 yrs ago they started breeding  the am bullies


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> There is 4.5 million registered pit bull and a least that many that are not. There are about half of that number of rotts. Bite sats are at the best iffy. Pit bulls are the most missed id ed dog. A test given to AC officers show 90% of them could not pick a pit bull out in three trys. If you do not beleive my take a look and see if you can:
> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…
> They say 90% of pits are put down. This is do to how misrepersnted pits are in the media. When a dogattack happens if it by one of the "warm and fuzzy" family breeds it is not reported or misreported as a pit attack quite often on purson to make the story better


Lee I agree with those  population numbers my research says between 5 and 10 million Pitts and about 1/2 that many Rottis that at best 15 million dogs compared to 77.5 million dogs total in the US. Your logic was that the Pitts were encountered more often that's why they were more Pitt attacks.... THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.... you are misleading people... Yes any dog can bite...Yes any dog can cause a human death....Yes there are bad owners....BUT NUMBERS DON'T LIE 67% OF FATAL DOG ATTACKS HAVE BEEN PITTS AND ROTTIS


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

am done with yall till you get  some proof what i say is back by the supreme court all the kennel clubs and  genetic research


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee I agree with those  population numbers my research says between 5 and 10 million Pitts and about 1/2 that many Rottis that at best 15 million dogs compared to 77.5 million dogs total in the US. Your logic was that the Pitts were encountered more often that's why they were more Pitt attacks.... THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.... you are misleading people... Yes any dog can bite...Yes any dog can cause a human death....Yes there are bad owners....BUT NUMBERS DON'T LIE 67% OF FATAL DOG ATTACKS HAVE BEEN PITTS AND ROTTIS



67% of hat how meany people

and a gain pit bull is not a breed it it a term that categorizes 20 + breeds of dog not to be confused with the apbt


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> am done with yall till you get  some proof what i say is back by the supreme court all the kennel clubs and  genetic research



Lee I'm not attacking you personally or Pitts like I've said I own a Rotti. The facts are the facts why not work within the facts and educate people who own or will own Pitts and Rottis rather than waste your energy trying mislead people. With the potential of a fatal outcome I think it's irresponsible and leads to more Pitt and Rotti attacks which leads to more bad news coverage and some hurt or worse people along the way.


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## SouthernBeagles (Aug 22, 2010)

yes but according the the UKC the amstaffs can be and are  registered as apbt????


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

the fact is and i think we can all agree is pit bull have more bad owners then any other breed


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> the fact is and i think we can all agree is pit bull have more bad owners then any other breed



I don't agree but if you feel that way Why as I have included in several posts don't you channel you're energy towards education of Owners and future Owners of Pitts and Rottis, instead of covering for the breed constantly


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

look man just call any vet and ask what breed gives them the most problem


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


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what about all the mike vic dogs that were being used for fighting  and turnd out to make good pets in the right hands


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> I don't agree but if you feel that way Why as I have included in several posts don't you channel you're energy towards education of Owners and future Owners of Pitts and Rottis, instead of covering for the breed constantly



ok what breed do you feel has most bad owners then


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> I don't agree but if you feel that way Why as I have included in several posts don't you channel you're energy towards education of Owners and future Owners of Pitts and Rottis, instead of covering for the breed constantly



ok what breed do you feel has most bad owners then and i would prefer you dont add the pit bull and rottie stats together i cant speak for or against rottie  i only had 1 she was grate.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> call your  local shelter they are over ran with pit bulls
> 
> look on this form $100 pups all the time
> 
> ...



that doesn't help your response....I love all bully breeds and true registered American Pit Bulls. I have a boxer pit mix and I am against dangerous dog bans but you really need to justify your responses not just copy and paste from another site


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 22, 2010)

I don't feel any breed can be singled out for having bad owners poor dogs of all breeds are subject to bad owners ,it goes back to one of my earler posts with the strength and disposition of Pitts and Rottis a bad owner can have tragic results. A bad owner of a Beagle
and someone gets a bite on the leg. Thus my point AGAIN why don't you aim at education of Pitt owners and future owners as to what can happen with poor training and poor control of your dog


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## sgmcmahon (Aug 22, 2010)

Georgia,

Agreed 100%.   I believe there are some great owners of pits, but the owners that neglect them are the dogs in the press.  Each breed of dog has a trait, and pits are no exception.  There are dogs that bite more often (pome, dalmations, etc), but the fact is that a pit has the power to kill.

They, like all dogs, have to be trained.  If not, then a pit has the potential to do some serious harm.  Your points have been dead on, in my opinion.


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## bkl021475 (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> ok what breed do you feel has most bad owners then



Pit bull or whatever dog that the general public deems a pit bull has the worst owners, and I'm speaking in general, not those of you that have them and are responsible owners, or hunters, you are not included. How many lab, pointer, beagle, spaniel,or hound fighting rings do you hear of? How many attacks of these lab, pointer,beagle,spaniel, or hound breeds do you hear of? Sure any dog will bite, but look in the mirror, you have a breed of dog that was born and bred to be aggressive, and if one, or even one of yours,ever jumps you don't be suprised!


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## kgo (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> what about all the mike vic dogs that were being used for fighting  and turnd out to make good pets in the right hands


Can't you here your self think,was he using beagles? no? why not? How many truly right hands do you think there is? You have to know that there are way more owners out there that are not prepared and do not have the skills to turn out a well balanced dog. So what are we gonna do to about it ? You got to stop the dog or stop the owner it's just that simple.


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

ok what do you think should be done to fix the problem


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> There is 4.5 million registered pit bull and a least that many that are not. There are about half of that number of rotts. Bite sats are at the best iffy. Pit bulls are the most missed id ed dog. A test given to AC officers show 90% of them could not pick a pit bull out in three trys. If you do not beleive my take a look and see if you can:
> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…
> They say 90% of pits are put down. This is do to how misrepersnted pits are in the media. When a dogattack happens if it by one of the "warm and fuzzy" family breeds it is not reported or misreported as a pit attack quite often on purson to make the story better


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

we dont need new laws we need the ones we have to be better enforced almost ever where has laws that say you have to keep your dog on your property but people dont so is it the dogs fault or the owner if the dog is out and bites some one its the owner


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## lee hanson (Aug 22, 2010)

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## kgo (Aug 23, 2010)

It is the dog and the owner. If your dog bites a human unprovoked ,by that I mean see them and run them down and bite, that dog should be put down and you should pay what ever it takes to make amends to the person bit.If you can't do that then you should not own a breed of dog that can hurt someone real bad real fast.Some of these big strong dogs that are not raised right think there hunting when they get out and they get what they can catch.They should be long jail time for people that let there aggresive dogs bite someone and double it if they bite a kid.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

'"Pit Bulls attack more people than any other breed.” 
Bite statistics are difficult to obtain accurately. Dogs that are referred to as “pit bulls” in statistical reports actually are a variety of breeds and mixes all lumped together under the “pit bull” heading. Also, many people have a difficult time properly identifying a true Pit Bull, so added to the statistics are those dogs that have been misidentified. Considering these factors, the actual number of attacks attributable to American Pit Bull Terriers is considerably lower than represented. Also important to understand is 
the extreme popularity of the Pit Bull and pit bull-type breeds. By some estimates, numbers-wise they are the most popular of all dog breeds.It is only logical to assume that the breed with the higher number of individual dogs would be represented with a higher number of bites.  Viewing older statistical reports for the Center of Disease Control, one will see that trends in breed popularity reflect in the number of bites attributed to a specific breed during a specific period of time."

http://www.realpitbull.com/linkus.html

SOURCE: http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html Paragraph 5!


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

That website explains alot of stuff very clearly. They are very wise individuals.

It is not a breeds fault for the actions of man. A breed is a breed as a race is a race. We are all taught to be a certain way, whether people believe it right or wrong.

And animals do not understand morals as we do. A human is just another creature to a dog. Man kills man far more than a pit will kill man. If this breed is to be condemned because they killed people, then why is it that humans get away with killing other creatures? Humans kill alot more than any animal will. Most animals kill for what they need... such as starvation or to please their owners. The 2nd reason would be due to the human's fault for teaching a dog to be a killer thanks to man. I do not believe, one bit, that a breed can be the only thing to blame.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

That is my opinion.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Please take the time, to read this list of facts involving pit bulls, GHH...

It debates all that you have argued in your orignal post. 

http://www.realpitbull.com/reality.html

My favorite part of their argument is # 11: "11.) For every pit bull who kills, there are hundreds of thousands that 
DON'T."


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

ghill4 said:


> Please take the time, to read this list of facts involving pit bulls, GHH...
> 
> It debates all that you have argued in your orignal post.
> 
> http://www.realpitbull.com/reality.html



Explain why 67% of Fatal Dog attacks in the last 24 years in the US and Canada are cause by Pitt Bulls and Rottweilers. You can't cover that up or explain that away.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Explain why 67% of Fatal Dog attacks in the last 24 years in the US and Canada are cause by Pitt Bulls and Rottweilers. You can't cover that up or explain that away.



A Dose of Reality


1.) Since 1992, the breed most involved in fatal attacks has been the 
Rottweiler, not the pit bull.

2.) Although there are no accurate or even near accurate census records 
for dogs in the U.S., in some populations pit bulls are estimated to 
comprise some 30-40% of the dog population, making it a very popular 
breed. Considering that there were an estimated 53,000,000 dogs in the 
U.S., and assuming that pit bulls make up 10% of that population, there 
would be approximately 5.3 million pit bulls in our society. In 2000, 13 pit 
bulls were involved in 8 fatal attacks. That is roughly ONE dog out of 
204,000 - or .000385 percent of the pit bull population.

3.) Over the 37-year period from 1965-2001, pit bulls have been blamed 
for an average of 2.48 human fatalities per year


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

10.) It is estimated that 5,000,000 dogs per year are killed in shelters. 
Since in many places pit bulls make up 30-50% of the shelter population, 
and are less likely to be considered for placement than any other breed, 
guessing that 25% of those dogs killed is a reasonable estimate. 
Therefore, it can be assumed that perhaps 1.25 million pit bulls are killed 
per year.

Therefore - it is at least a HALF MILLION TIMES MORE LIKELY that a pit 
bull will be killed by a HUMAN than the other way around.

11.) For every pit bull who kills, there are hundreds of thousands that 
DON'T


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

I wasn't attempting to cover it up, nor am I saying that they aren't the most affectively aggressive canine that has caused fatalities. My argument is for whom is to blame and it is not the breed. 

My argument is that people need to stop wasting time trying to point fingers at an animal with no grand morality and start putting their attention towards people killing people. 

 "Every year, more than 2,000 children in the U.S. are killed by their 
parents or guardians either through abuse or neglect. A child is more than 800 times more likely to be killed by their adult caretaker than by a pit bull."
http://www.realpitbull.com/reality.html

Not to mention all the doggies us human kill just because there is no home placement in shelters. 

If we are to condemn a breed such as a pit for a human fatality, when they have no morals like ours, then perhaps we should do the same to us humans.

In other words... if 67%  out of 100% of all dog fatalities can be placed on that breed, such as the pit bull, then (for example and not based off true statistics) what if 75% of those humans who murder other humans were (random choice) Italian, then we should also blame the whole Italian race for the deaths of humans and put a ban on them.... right? 

You are simply being a hypocrite if you believe this.

Chihuahuas are more aggressive than pits... If they had a bigger, stronger body, they would be far higher in that percentile than a pitbull. That is from Ceaser M.'s mouth on public television, but I have personal agreement with the belief due to how many of them lil boogers have bitten someone I knew compared to a pit.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

ghill4 said:


> I wasn't attempting to cover it up, nor am I saying that they aren't the most affectively aggressive canine that has caused fatalities. My argument is for whom is to blame and it is not the breed.
> 
> My argument is that people need to stop wasting time trying to point fingers at an animal with no grand morality and start putting their attention towards people killing people.
> 
> ...


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

I personally have been bitten by a rottie... a hispanic man sent his rotti after me when I was seven and it ripped my nose off... thankfully, my nose is back on and no visible scarring... by luck.  But I have been bitten 5x more by our Pekingese out of the several rotties that come up loving on me. I have had a bad experience with ever breed... but mostly with little, less harmful (bc they can't get to anywhere for a kill shot) small breed dogs.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee    its time you face the facts I too own a breed that has tendencies to be dangerous, I own a Rottweiler. My Rotti wouldn't hurt a fly but does that mean the breed doesn't have a tendency to be dangerous NO IT DOESN"T
> 
> According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/...-S-Canada-September-1982-to-December-22-2009\
> ...





lee hanson said:


> A Dose of Reality
> 
> 
> 1.) Since 1992, the breed most involved in fatal attacks has been the
> ...



it seem some dont agree plz show where you found the above


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

*Giving some credit to your arguement*



Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee    its time you face the facts I too own a breed that has tendencies to be dangerous, I own a Rottweiler. My Rotti wouldn't hurt a fly but does that mean the breed doesn't have a tendency to be dangerous NO IT DOESN"T
> 
> According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/...-S-Canada-September-1982-to-December-22-2009\
> ...



I will not argue at all with the highlighted statement you made and I am not saying that you are one who wants the breed to be blanned. Because the dog is LARGE with very powerful jaws, similar to the aggression of an Akita, I agree very much with you about educating the owners. If there was a way to truly enforce it out of the breeds protection. However, the same can be said about small breeds like chihuahuas. They are forgotten due to their size and their ineffectiveness to cause a fatality compared to a large breed such as a GSD or pit or a rottie.


EDIT
The most banning I believe should be done, is involving the amount of pitbulls in their population. The more there are of a breed, the higher the # of bites. I do believe there should be some form of controlling the breeding of pits and perhaps temporarily limiting breeding them to registered, approved breeders only for a time. There are far too many pits and pit mixes. This is an idea, not an argument. I have nothing to support how this would really help limit the breeding but its simply an idea.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

I am off to bed now   talk with yall tomarrow! Gnite yall!


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## Bugeye (Aug 23, 2010)

I think GHH is mainly trying to say that pit owners such as lee should be educating people of the dangers of pits if they are not willing to train them and control them.
not because they are more violent, but because they are more powerful.


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## fulldraw74 (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee    its time you face the facts I too own a breed that has tendencies to be dangerous, I own a Rottweiler. My Rotti wouldn't hurt a fly but does that mean the breed doesn't have a tendency to be dangerous NO IT DOESN"T
> 
> According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/...-S-Canada-September-1982-to-December-22-2009\
> ...



Best post on this topic EVER!!!


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## dgilles (Aug 23, 2010)

*pit bulls*

Lee, I don't condemn pitbulls, as a matter of fact I have owned a few and they have been very good dogs but if you have ever see them turn on anything then you should know of the awesome power and devastation they can deal out. Your avatar sends chills down my spine, it can happen in the blink of an eye.


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## fulldraw74 (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> it seem some dont agree plz show where you found the above



http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf


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## sea trout (Aug 23, 2010)

i get bitten by a pomeranian every time i visit my family. 
she may bite my boot 2 or 3 times in one assault!
fact is....she only weighs 4 pounds. she can only make us laugh.
fact is....if this happens with a 50 pound pitbull, the outcome is not so funny.
someone correct me if i'm wrong. these pit bulls were bred for holding, restraining, killing, immobilizing large animals. thats what they can do, right?


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## amstaff (Aug 23, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> yes but according the the UKC the amstaffs can be and are  registered as apbt????



They want Amstaffs to dual register. We make the breed prettier

Amer./Inter. Ch. Celtics Mortal Kombat of WR

Ringo. This dog was given to a lady as a pet due to he was not up to show standard

Amer./Inter. Ch. Kights It Ought To Be A Crime


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> A Dose of Reality
> 
> 
> 1.) Since 1992, the breed most involved in fatal attacks has been the
> ...



Lee I looked at the wesite where you copy the garbage it's the stupidest unrelated stuff I've seen like more children drown in 5 gal water buckets than are killed by Pitt Bulls. I see where you get the idiototic things you put on here

As far as the new misinformation of blaming Rottis
Here are the real facts once again from my very first post



> According the the ANIMAL PEOPLE report
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/D...ember-22-2009\
> 
> From 1982 to 2006 in the US and Canada there were 345 deaths due to Dog attacks Pitt Bull Terriers were responsible for 153 of those deaths or roughly 44% and Rottweilers which were responsible for 67 deaths or roughly 19% .So you've got 220 deaths or 63% of the total of 345 deaths were cause by PittBull Terriers and Rottweilers



Thats well over 2 to 1 in 24 years which tells the real picture.
You guys are morons. all this "shift the blame" "hide the truth" "mislead the people" "deny they were Pitts"

WHY NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION THAT I HAVE POSTED OVER AND OVER 

"WHY DON'T YOU SPEND YOUR TIME AND ENERGY TEACHING PITT OWNERS HOW TO TRAIN AND RESTRAIN THEIR ANIMALS INSTEAD OF IGNORING THE PROBLEM THAT BECAUSE OF THE STRENGTH AND TEMPERMENT OF THESE ANIMALS THEY CAN AND DO CAUSE SERIOUS DAMAGE WITH 44% OF ALL HUMAN DEATHS (153) CAUSED BY DOG ATTACKS IN THE LAST 24 YEARS BEING CAUSED BY PITT BULLS"

instead you give me garbage like "PITTS have more bad owners"

I kept putting Rottis back in the arguement to try to show you as a RESPONSIBLE owner I am concerned about the possibilities of what could happen. Thats what I'm really asking from you. Be responsible stepup do do something to help your breed and the people that do or will own them and the people they attack.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

Lee here is a site I use sometimes for information about my choosen Breed,Rottweilers

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/index.php

I post this as an illustration of responsible ownership and education of owners and potentional owners. On this site there is no cover up of the Breed's capitlities instead disscussions of how to control and train their dogs and their owners

Why not ban together with some of your like minded friends and go in this direction

ALSO UPON REREADING MY POSTS I DISCOVERED I MISQUOTED  MYSELF FROM MY FIRST POST I PRINTED THAT PITTS AND ROTTIS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR 63% OF HUMAN DEATHS IN THE LAST 24 YEARS SINCE THAT POST I HAVE LISTED THAT NUMBER AT 67% FOR THAT I APOLIGIZE


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## Bugeye (Aug 23, 2010)

** amstaff **  now that is a pretty dog. much more intelligent looking that your average pitbull.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

Lee
Here is the sourse of useless, misleading, and unrealated info that is put together not to help but to mislead and hide the problem


http://www.realpitbull.com/reality.html


1.) Since 1992, the breed most involved in fatal attacks has been the 
Rottweiler, not the pit bull.

2.) Although there are no accurate or even near accurate census records 
for dogs in the U.S., in some populations pit bulls are estimated to 
comprise some 30-40% of the dog population, making it a very popular 
breed. Considering that there were an estimated 53,000,000 dogs in the 
U.S., and assuming that pit bulls make up 10% of that population, there 
would be approximately 5.3 million pit bulls in our society. In 2000, 13 pit 
bulls were involved in 8 fatal attacks. That is roughly ONE dog out of 
204,000 - or .000385 percent of the pit bull population.

3.) Over the 37-year period from 1965-2001, pit bulls have been blamed 
for an average of 2.48 human fatalities per year.

4.) About 40 people (children) per year die by drowning in 5-gallon water 
pails. A person, during their lifetime, is 16 times more likely to drown in a 
5-gallon water pail than to be killed by a pit bull.

5.) Approximately 50 children in the US are killed every year by their cribs 
- 25 times the number of children and adults killed by pit bulls.

6.) Approximately 150 people are killed every year by falling coconuts. 
Therefore, you are more than 60 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be killed by a 
PALM TREE than a pit bull.

7.) Each year, 350 people drown in their bathtubs. You are 151 times 
more likely to be killed by your bathtub than you are by a pit bull.

8.) It is estimated that about 500 deaths per year are caused by aspirin. 
You are more than 200 times more likely to die from taking aspirin than 
from a pit bull attack.

9.) Every year, more than 2,000 children in the U.S. are killed by their 
parents or guardians either through abuse or neglect. A child is more 
than 800 times more likely to be killed by their adult caretaker than by a 
pit bull.

10.) It is estimated that 5,000,000 dogs per year are killed in shelters. 
Since in many places pit bulls make up 30-50% of the shelter population, 
and are less likely to be considered for placement than any other breed, 
guessing that 25% of those dogs killed is a reasonable estimate. 
Therefore, it can be assumed that perhaps 1.25 million pit bulls are killed 
per year.

Therefore - it is at least a HALF MILLION TIMES MORE LIKELY that a pit 
bull will be killed by a HUMAN than the other way around.

11.) For every pit bull who kills, there are hundreds of thousands that 
DON'T.


What the heck does how many children drown on a 5 gal bucket of water or how many children die in their cribs or anything else this web site lists.

The world is a dangerous place people are killed all the time by man/accident  but that still doesn't hide the fact that you and like minded people like you are refusing to be responsibile and educate people on how to better train and contol the Breed. 
BY DOING THIS YOU AND LIKE MINDED PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE DOING THE BREED A DISERVICE WHICH WILL ONLY LEAD TO MORE ATTACKS AND DEATHS, BUT BY YOUR LOGIC (AND THE ABOVE WEB SITE) THATS OK BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

have you ever been bit by a dog?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

> 11.) For every pit bull who kills, there are hundreds of thousands that DON'T




As for this statment it is true but by the meaning of the logic
thats a good thing, As far as I am concerned even 1 death that could have been prevented is too many. Education is how you prevent this WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THIS?

As far as you pointing this out ghill4  its your favorite
so it doesn't matter that a person was killed by a Pitt because there are thousands of other Pitts that didn't kill anyone

The fact is people are going to die in a multitude of ways wit hthe number of fatal Dog attacks being a miniscule fraction of the total. But the fact also is with proper Education that number can be reduced even more and the easiest way to effect that number is to go after the 2 biggest offending Breeds being 63% of fatal attacks are Pitts and Rottis. So Logicly Either control the dogs thru legislation or control the dogs thru education of the owners and better training for the dogs

NO MAN IS SO BLIND AS THE MAN WHO REFUSES TO SEE

The fact is people are going to


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

i see yall dont like that question but it works almost every time
i have never said pit bull dont bite i have never that when they do attack they they aren't effective all i keep saying is they dont bite people just because they are pit bulls is that so hard to under stand


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> have you ever been bit by a dog?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



Yes Lee I have been bitten many times in my life. The number 1 offender is my wife's fomer Pome bit me probly 50 times. And yes that is way more than any Pitt  would bite. But the bottom line is 50 Pome bites don't add up to 1/4 of a Pitt or Rotti bite. Its about the strength of the Dog these Dogs can do tragic amounts of damage, the worst I got from that Pome was a bloody knuckle. I don't feel Pitts or Rottis are more inclined to bite, I don't by into the "the dogs were breed to fight" I DO BELIVE THAT BOTH BREEDS HAS A NATURAL INSTICT TO PROTECT PROPERTY OR OWNERS. WHICH CAN LEAD TO TRAGIC ENDS. 
Also a new wrinkle most of the attacks from 1998 to 2006 involved Pitts, the attacking Pitts was a unaltered male over 80 % of the time


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

i dont refuse to see any thing if some one  dont keep there dog put up then  call the pound dont Waite till some thing happens  you never know the dog  could be  a trash eater  cat or man ect

where i live we have problems with coyotes eating chickens we dont Waite till it in the pen to deal with the problem that would be stupid

the same  with a dog

an when you see these  alleged attacks where are they at mostly in the city  subdivisions now how Meany coon  dog live in these type community's all my buddy's that hunt coon  and have 4-5 dogs live out in the sticks it hard for them to get the chance to bite some one in the middle of no where plus they keep their dogs put up


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> i see yall dont like that question but it works almost every time
> i have never said pit bull dont bite i have never that when they do attack they they aren't effective all i keep saying is they dont bite people just because they are pit bulls is that so hard to under stand


IT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL what fantsy land do you live in Lee

The facts that Pitt Bulls are involved in fatal attacks 44% of the time in a 24 year period FULLY ILLISTRATES THAT THE PROBLEM IS CENTERED AROUND THAT BREED OT LACK OF EDUCATION THAT THE OWNERS HAVE IN THE BREED


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## amstaff (Aug 23, 2010)

*Thanks and which one...*



Bugeye said:


> ** amstaff **  now that is a pretty dog. much more intelligent looking that your average pitbull.




All 3 of them are highly intelligent The 1st pic is also CGC and a licensed therapy dog. The last one was just CGC.

GHH, did not mean to hijack your thread. I was only stirring the pot a little with the dual register thing..


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> i dont refuse to see any thing if some one  dont keep there dog put up then  call the pound dont waite till some thing happens  you never know the dog  could be  a trash eater  cat or man ect
> 
> where i live we have problems with coyotes eating chickens we dont waite till it in the pen to deal with the problem that would be stupid
> 
> ...



lee this is just another feable attempt to divert attention away from the real problem that you choose to ignore that because of the size and strength of a pitt it can and has caused the deaths of 153 people in the us and canada in the last 24 years  LEE THATS 44% OF ALL FATAL DOG ATTACK.
And I know you're going to say that because of its bitting ability it bit less than a Pome THE BITING ABILITY IS MY POINT


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

hey  why dont you look up the breed temperment stander for black mouth cur


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TtGT2apOlKw?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TtGT2apOlKw?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l1ZCccf78Ck?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l1ZCccf78Ck?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

Lee another attempt to divert attention, a black mouth does not have the strength and body mass to cause damage like a Pitt and a Rotti do. Its about the potentional to cause harm and injury. I agree Pitts are WAY down the list in induce bites when compared by Breed BUT THEY ARE AT OR NEAR THE TOP OF THE LIST IN ABILITLY TO CAUSE GREAT BODILY HARM.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TtGT2apOlKw?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TtGT2apOlKw?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

Lee
We've been debating on here going on 2 days, and you have failed to ansewer 1 question time and time again so here it is again

DUE TO THE STRENGTH AND DISPOSTION OF THE BREED WHY DON'T YOU STOP WASTING YOUR ENGERY ON MISLEADING, AND DIVERTING ATTENTION AND START EDUCATING PITT OWNERS AND FUTURE OWNERS SO THE PITT BULL'S PUBLIC RELATION PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY OR A LEAST BE GREATLY REDUCES DUE TO LESS ATTACKS BECAUSE THE DOG WILL BE BETTER TRAINED AND BETTER CONTROLED


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

The bottom line for the future of Pitt Bulls is that the News media will continue to sensationize every Pitt attack they hear about this will only lead to one of 2 outcomes
1) the dog will be controlled thru Legislation ie banned ect.
2) the dog will be contolled thru the owners as I have suggested many times but you ignored Educating Owners as to what the possibilites can be and  better training of the breed


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm not in favor of banning or restricting Pitts you have made numerious post about this very subject I'm trying to help you see you are not helping your Breed by what you are doing. But if the majority of Pitt owners are iresponsible and choose to ignore what the problems are and choose to mislead and divert attention away from the Pitt and on to other problems that do not have the same potential to cause great bodily harm as a Pitt THEN THIS WILL ONE DAY LEAD TO THE LEGISLATIVE CONTROL OF YOUR BREED


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## bkl021475 (Aug 23, 2010)

I would love to have the 3:36 of my life back from watching that pit bull video. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO KILL AN ADULT, a freaking lap dog doesn't, that's everyones point! My gosh! I used to enjoy this forum for the hunting talk on everyone's dogs, now the whole forum is a pit bull peeing contest!


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## K9SAR (Aug 23, 2010)

bkl021475 said:


> I would love to have the 3:36 of my life back from watching that pit bull video. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO KILL AN ADULT, a freaking lap dog doesn't, that's everyones point! My gosh! I used to enjoy this forum for the hunting talk on everyone's dogs, now the whole forum is a pit bull peeing contest!



LOL seems as though the forum is in dire need of a pit bull section.


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## bkl021475 (Aug 23, 2010)

K9SAR said:


> LOL seems as though the forum is in dire need of a pit bull section.



That would be great!


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee
> We've been debating on here going on 2 days, and you have failed to ansewer 1 question time and time again so here it is again
> 
> DUE TO THE STRENGTH AND DISPOSTION OF THE BREED WHY DON'T YOU STOP WASTING YOUR ENGERY ON MISLEADING, AND DIVERTING ATTENTION AND START EDUCATING PITT OWNERS AND FUTURE OWNERS SO THE PITT BULL'S PUBLIC RELATION PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY OR A LEAST BE GREATLY REDUCES DUE TO LESS ATTACKS BECAUSE THE DOG WILL BE BETTER TRAINED AND BETTER CONTROLED



i do work with people trying help them be  better  owners do you know how Meany fences i have put up out of my pocket  or how Meany dog house i have built man i do every thing i can to help my breed you dont know what you are talking about your dog bite law site that is a group of lawyers correct  

the info i have post has  such as the genetic research has been done  by expert in their Field

then you keep say strenth there bite pressure is only 235 that less then gsd and rottie there wight less then a rottie and gsd you hae know i dael what you are talking about  and you still havent  told me if you have ever been bit by a dog


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

you refuse to tell me what breed has bit you


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## amstaff (Aug 23, 2010)

GHH, Yes you are right. As a person who owns this breed and has been involved in these types of animals for MANY years, I agree. The issue is not the amount of attention for what dog bites more, it is the amount of attention to which bite is worse. I know my dogs, do I think they would attack someone, NO. But is the possibility there,YES. It is up to me as a responsible owner to do everything in my power to prevent it. 

Lee, I think you posted on another thread one time that Labrador's are the breed with the most recorded bites, most likely true. And, GHH you posted here that out of dog bite DEATHS, 44% are due to Pits, also probably true. You have both proven your points. Pits, Rotties, Cane Corso, Argentine Dogo, etc. are not the dogs that will bite the quickest but when they do....it is more likely to be life threatening.

Lee you are right in the assumption that bad owners play a big role in the problem facing these breeds today. But to say that is the sole cause of such problems is naive. All things come into play. Take an individual who wants a dog strictly because they saw one on the cover of a rap CD, add in the fact this person is ignorant of the breed and doesn't have a clue how to control it or train it, lets said dog show aggression to other dogs,once this animal has established the alpha dog role, it is not a far step to attacking a human. 

Now take a dog that has been brought up properly, socialized, and someone buys him for a lot of money, now they are walking their dog with a harness or a big,wide spiked collar because its better for Fido. Guess what,they are bad owners too because they don't know how to handle a dog. This is the same person who lets their pet run up to another strange dog and the best he can say is "don't worry,he's friendly"or "don't worry my dog don't bite". Both cases, different circumstances same bad owners.

I see these things and I do my best to educate the individual about what they just did and how wrong it was. 

You both have valid points and both can be backed up with dozens of copy-paste studies. In this one though GHH, you sir are more correct. The argument of " well this breed does it too" doesn't hold water or help out a situation. The proper argument would be....

 Yes I know what I have, I know what it is capable of, and here is what I am doing to make sure my dogs are not part of the problem but part of the solution.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

Amstaff
You are what I would call a enlighted and responsible Dog owner and I appauld you


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee I looked at the wesite where you copy the garbage it's the stupidest unrelated stuff I've seen like more children drown in 5 gal water buckets than are killed by Pitt Bulls. I see where you get the idiototic things you put on here
> 
> As far as the new misinformation of blaming Rottis
> Here are the real facts once again from my very first post
> ...




Honestly, if it were possible, it would be done. But the problem isn't with those who are pet owners not having a way of being educated. Alot of pet owners understand they own a dog bred for hunting large game. But those who breed the pit for fighting are the biggest destruction of the breed. Educating them is definitely something they won't adhere to. They would rather be stupid and use an innocent animal for sport who has no power to make the decision to do so for themselves. Not to mention, there is hundreds of material covering teaching owners who own large breeds and on pits and rotties in general. "Educating owners" is already available. It's the fact people don't care to pay attention to it that you believe that something isn't being done. As a result, others who have the same idea are attempting to ban the breed when it isn't the breeds fault. I argue the blame because it is the owner who is to blame. For not educating themselves. But it appears the breed is blamed for this more than the owners who either fail to educate themselves or because they are abusing the breed themselves for profit or game.


That being said, there are lots of responsible pet owners out there. But it is the fool who thinks that just a pit or rottie should be socialized properly. All dogs should be properly socialized. Every dog has the potential to harm someone. Our pitbull is far from a ticking bomb. The safest dog I have ever met. She is properly socialized and has been from the beginning. Thats the most I can say for the owners whose pet pitbull or rottie has harmed someone.

As far as "MORONS" go... Just because we believe in something, doesn't mean you have to insult our intelligence.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

AKC MEET THE BREEDS®: Rottweiler
Robust and powerful, the Rottweiler is happiest when given a job to perform. His intelligence, endurance and willingness to work make him suitable as a police dog, herder, service dog, therapy dog, obedience competitor and devoted companion. An inherent protector, the Rottweiler is self-confident and responds quietly and with a wait-and-see attitude to influences in his environment. He must be medium in size and his coat is black with rust to mahogany markings.

A Look Back


 The Rottweiler's ancestors were the drover's dogs accompanying the herds the Romans brought with them when invading Europe. The controllable herding and guarding instincts were recognized by the Germans, and dogs were selectively bred for these traits. As need for its services diminished, the Rottweiler almost fell into extinction. In the early 1900s, a newly formed club established a breed standard. The breed has not appreciably changed since that time.

Right Breed for You?
Rottweilers love their people and may behave in a clownish manner toward family and friends, but they are also protective of their territory and do not welcome strangers until properly introduced. Obedience training and socialization are musts. Rottweilers must be exercised daily, but require minimal grooming maintenance


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

this what ukc says

Sometime during the nineteenth century, dog fanciers in England, Ireland and Scotland began to experiment with crosses between Bulldogs and Terriers, looking for a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the Bulldog. The result was a dog that embodied all of the virtues attributed to great warriors: strength, indomitable courage, and gentleness with loved ones. Immigrants brought these bull and terrier crosses to the United States. The American Pit Bull Terrier’s many talents did not go unnoticed by farmers and ranchers who used their APBTs as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. Today, the American Pit Bull Terrier continues to demonstrate its versatility, competing successfully in Obedience, Tracking, Agility and Weight Pulls, as well as Conformation.

The United Kennel Club was the first registry to recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier. UKC founder C. Z. Bennett assigned UKC registration number 1 to his own APBT, Bennett’s Ring, in 1898.

GENERAL APPEARANCE

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, solidly built, short-coated dog with smooth, well-defined musculature. This breed is both powerful and athletic. The body is just slightly longer than tall, but Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- may be somewhat longer in body than dogs. The length of the front leg (measured from point of elbow to the ground) is approximately equal to one-half of the dog’s height at the withers. The head is of medium length, with a broad, flat skull, and a wide, deep muzzle. Ears are small to medium in size, high set, and may be natural or cropped. The relatively short tail is set low, thick at the base and tapers to a point. The American Pit Bull Terrier comes in all colors and color patterns except merle. This breed combines strength and athleticism with grace and agility and should never appear bulky or muscle-bound or fine-boned and rangy. Above all else, the APBT must have the functional capability to be a catch dog that can hold, wrestle (push and pull) and breathe easily while doing its job. Balance and harmony of all parts are critical components of breed type.

Very Serious Fault: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.

CHARACTERISTICS

The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanPitBullTerrierRevisedNovember12008


 so dont compair the temperment  of  rotties to the apbt


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

Temperament of the Blackmouth Cur
The Black Mouth Cur is loyal, active, and even-tempered. They do best in a home with older children due to their propensity to herd. Black Mouth Cur's do well with other dogs provided they are not classified as a Toy breed. They are not recommended for homes with non-canine pets. The Black Mouth Cur is highly protective of their family, home, and territory and will fight to the death to defend those they love. This breed is exceptionally affectionate to women. 
The Black Mouth Cur is muscular, well-balanced, tenacious, and courageous. This breed is built for power, speed, and agility. Black Mouth Cur's are rugged, sturdy, and relentless. They are highly proficient at swimming, tracking, treeing, and baying


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> Lee
> We've been debating on here going on 2 days, and you have failed to ansewer 1 question time and time again so here it is again
> 
> DUE TO THE STRENGTH AND DISPOSTION OF THE BREED WHY DON'T YOU STOP WASTING YOUR ENGERY ON MISLEADING, AND DIVERTING ATTENTION AND START EDUCATING PITT OWNERS AND FUTURE OWNERS SO THE PITT BULL'S PUBLIC RELATION PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY OR A LEAST BE GREATLY REDUCES DUE TO LESS ATTACKS BECAUSE THE DOG WILL BE BETTER TRAINED AND BETTER CONTROLED



Unfortunately there are so many whom abuse the breed still today, that the problem seems it will never go away 


The point is, just as any large breed, they are dangerous. I am not arguing that pits can be dangerous. Their method of, grab-holdon-shake, is what makes them so effective when they attack. This is a predator and hunter we are speaking of. I have worked with and around many pits and haven't been bit by one. But I am not saying they won't. In my opinion, anything with teeth can bite.

I agree with you that OWNERS need to be educated. Unfortunately, no one takes the time to watch the shows, read the books, etc. and there is no way to enforce it


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Lee you have managed to lose me Lol



I am done arguing about this. We all have some valid points and people will not change their opinions. But, point blank, the fact is, if people would socialize their dog (whether it be pit or german shepherd or akita or just an all out mutt), then there would be less harm done to people and other animals whether its fatal or just a bite.

Before anyone should adopt a breed of any type, they should educate themselves. Akitas are a great example of a breed that will run you over and be aggressive if not properly handled. Like a pit, they are bred to hunt large game and carry aggression as well. That is one breed of many that people need to educate themselves. The problem is, pits are the most abused breed out there as far as fighting or inbreeding. With that being said, I am done for the day.




However, that makes none of us "MORONS" based off of any of our arguments.

 And it isn't like Lee is unaware that pits (like any angered or large breed) can kill someone. My fave breed is catahoula but I would trust my pit with my 3, 4 and 7 yr old nephews.


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## lee hanson (Aug 23, 2010)

i think if your dog bites some one unprovoked you should have a stiff punishment and the dog should be put down and if it happens with another dog that you own you should never be allowed to own a dog again  i also think before you can on a second dog you should have to take a class on the breed you chose to own


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

ghill4 said:


> Honestly, if it were possible, it would be done. But the problem isn't with those who are pet owners not having a way of being educated. Alot of pet owners understand they own a dog bred for hunting large game. But those who breed the pit for fighting are the biggest destruction of the breed. Educating them is definitely something they won't adhere to. They would rather be stupid and use an innocent animal for sport who has no power to make the decision to do so for themselves. Not to mention, there is hundreds of material covering teaching owners who own large breeds and on pits and rotties in general. "Educating owners" is already available. It's the fact people don't care to pay attention to it that you believe that something isn't being done. As a result, others who have the same idea are attempting to ban the breed when it isn't the breeds fault. I argue the blame because it is the owner who is to blame. For not educating themselves. But it appears the breed is blamed for this more than the owners who either fail to educate themselves or because they are abusing the breed themselves for profit or game.
> 
> 
> That being said, there are lots of responsible pet owners out there. But it is the fool who thinks that just a pit or rottie should be socialized properly. All dogs should be properly socialized. Every dog has the potential to harm someone. Our pitbull is far from a ticking bomb. The safest dog I have ever met. She is properly socialized and has been from the beginning. Thats the most I can say for the owners whose pet pitbull or rottie has harmed someone.
> ...



I am in aggrement with you I just feel that others, and everone on here know s who I'm refering to, should devote their engeries to shouting down the owners that are bad for your breed, the websites that do nothing but provide misleading facts and divert attention to the vicious  Chihuahuas with bite satistics  that really don't portray a clear picture, the people that promote the aggressive capalities of the breed, clubs which have trials that promote the biting ability of the breed, on and on.

Why waste time and engery defending the breed when the above is going on. Stop those people and you are helping the breed


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> i think if your dog bites some one unprovoked you should have a stiff punishment and the dog should be put down and if it happens with another dog that you own you should never be allowed to own a dog again  i also think before you can on a second dog you should have to take a class on the breed you chose to own



Lee I agree with you on this


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## Crubear (Aug 23, 2010)

My family has owned retired racing greyhounds for years - size does matter!! Want to see similar statistics, how many people are killed by (not in, by) big cars and how many by little cars?

The other thing that matters is the owner! If you can't make your kids behave you can't control a big dog, period!! They have to know you are boss, or they'll do what they want when they want.


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## bullfrog (Aug 23, 2010)

could not have put it any better


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> I am in aggrement with you I just feel that others, and everone on here know s who I'm refering to, should devote their engeries to shouting down the owners that are bad for your breed, the websites that do nothing but provide misleading facts and divert attention to the vicious  Chihuahuas with bite satistics  that really don't portray a clear picture, the people that promote the aggressive capalities of the breed, clubs which have trials that promote the biting ability of the breed, on and on.
> 
> Why waste time and engery defending the breed when the above is going on. Stop those people and you are helping the breed



Then why not make a new forum for individual methods on punishment, how they deal with aggressive dogs (w/o euthanasia) and tips and such on here instead of arguin bout doin somethin bout it... that way when people who own pits or rotties or any large breed that needs to be handled, you will be the first on GON forums to help them.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

Crubear said:


> My family has owned retired racing greyhounds for years - size does matter!! Want to see similar statistics, how many people are killed by (not in, by) big cars and how many by little cars?
> 
> The other thing that matters is the owner! If you can't make your kids behave you can't control a big dog, period!! They have to know you are boss, or they'll do what they want when they want.



amen! Its all about the alpha methods! If your not the boss, then the dog is. Doesn't mean a bad dog... just a tough dog to take back over.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 23, 2010)

ghill4 said:


> amen! Its all about the alpha methods! If your not the boss, then the dog is. Doesn't mean a bad dog... just a tough dog to take back over.



You are so right my wife and I disagree on my treatment of my Rotti, I am the Alpha and the dog knows it and I am consistent on my rules, the wife thinks no harm no foul, she just won't see that I'm teaching my Rotti to obey me verbally with out hesitation. Because of this I can walk my Rotti in public, I can call her off of anything be it a person or dog/cat. That is with out mistreatment just unyelding discipline . Having said all that I don't walk her in public without a leash but its nice to know I can call her off if the need arises. And my wife can't figure out why the dog doesn't mind her.


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## ghill4 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have dominance issue with my catahoula lately.... she was so good and now shes turned into a lil pain in the but  but thats another forum


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## Fatz (Aug 25, 2010)

Crubear said:


> My family has owned retired racing greyhounds for years - size does matter!! Want to see similar statistics, how many people are killed by (not in, by) big cars and how many by little cars?
> 
> The other thing that matters is the owner! If you can't make your kids behave you can't control a big dog, period!! They have to know you are boss, or they'll do what they want when they want.



Amen!!!!!!!!


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Aug 25, 2010)

Woman Killed By Pit Bull Pack
Posted: 1:53 pm EDT August 21, 2010
Updated: 12:07 pm EDT August 23, 2010

MACON, Ga. -- Authorities have concluded that a woman found in the backyard of a vacant home died after being mauled by a pack of pit bulls.

Police found Tracey Brazzell Payne's body on Thursday at about 2 p.m. Authorities said the same dogs that attacked the 46-year-old woman also attacked a man walking past the empty south Macon home the night before.

Coroner Leon Jones said Payne died of blunt force trauma and lacerations and that she had been dead six to eight hours.

Macon police spokeswoman Jami Gaudet said authorities have not yet determined whether foul play was involved or who may have been responsible for the dogs not being restrained.

Macon-Bibb County Animal Control picked up the dogs Thursday afternoon after Payne's body was found.
Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Just thought I would tell you lee I agree with you man, Pitts arent mean they are just hungry.  I know you will say that its the owners fault, but what if they were just a bunch of wild, roaming free dogs(strays).  If these had been another breed such as some beagles, or daschunds, or even some golden retrievers, I doubt they would have killed the woman.  I know you will have some answer and some statistic to back it up, or something about how they should be put in an animal shelter(and directly put to sleep maybe ), and I dont have the time to waste arguing with someone that can't type where I can comprehend it, but you cannot possibly believe that Pitts are not agressive animals, whether they were raised that way or not, they are more apt to turn.  DONT PM me either.........I aint arguing with you, I have to work for a living, not worry about whether a dog is going to be banned.  Just for the records I think they should be banned from the world, and I agree with K9sar, and Bkl0 this site used to be better b4 all the "My pitbull wouldn't even hurt a mice" crap, I think we need to vote on having a pitbull section, so they can all huddle up and talk about who has the sweetest pitbull......Keep on Georgia Hard Hunter, its an endless battle with lee, but good luck!


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## LonePine (Aug 26, 2010)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> Keep on Georgia Hard Hunter, its an endless battle with lee, but good luck!



I'm a little late to this party but X2


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## WolfPack (Aug 26, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> You are so right my wife and I disagree on my treatment of my Rotti, I am the Alpha and the dog knows it and I am consistent on my rules, the wife thinks no harm no foul, she just won't see that I'm teaching my Rotti to obey me verbally with out hesitation. Because of this I can walk my Rotti in public, I can call her off of anything be it a person or dog/cat. That is with out mistreatment just unyelding discipline . Having said all that I don't walk her in public without a leash but its nice to know I can call her off if the need arises. And my wife can't figure out why the dog doesn't mind her.



LOL....That is SO TRUE!!  My dogs mind me flawlessly.......but my wife has to scream and throw stuff to try and get their attention,  she let them get away with too much stuff.


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## BullyTek (Aug 26, 2010)

ghill4 said:


> Please take the time, to read this list of facts involving pit bulls, GHH...
> 
> It debates all that you have argued in your orignal post.
> 
> ...



I can't agree more.  I bred american bullies for the past 6 years and have never had a bad dog.  I take them to shows across the country, stand them right next to other males, take them to dog parks and have never had an agressive male or female.

It's all in how you raise them, how you socialize them, and how you discipline them.


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## lee hanson (Aug 26, 2010)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> Woman Killed By Pit Bull Pack
> Posted: 1:53 pm EDT August 21, 2010
> Updated: 12:07 pm EDT August 23, 2010
> 
> ...



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## lee hanson (Aug 28, 2010)

The manner in which you raise your dog ultimately determines what kind of dog you will have...good or bad, friendly or reclusive, gentle or aggressive. Genes alone do not make this determination, and as current scientific research confirms, it is nonsense to hold on to such a played out theory


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Aug 28, 2010)

Lee
Nobody has posted ON THIS THREAD since your last post from 8-28-10
That's 2 days ago..WHO ARE YOU DEBATING?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?  MAN YOU'VE GOT SOME ISSUES


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## PREACHER MAN (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the Video Mr. Hansen


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## lee hanson (Aug 30, 2010)

Banatics would like us to believe that the American Pit Bull Terrier as a breed, in general, possesses some sort of "dogfighting gene,” and for this reason, the APBT is not suitable for today’s society. For those who support this factually weak argument, its convenient to play the dogfighting card because it instills fear in those who are unaware. This argument assumes that if the American Pit Bull Terrier was bred to be used for dogfighting a hundred years ago, the APBT obviously must pose a danger to the public today. What the Banatics conveniently "forget" to include in this argument is that the APBT has always, from the beginning, been selectively bred to be excessively human friendly. Human aggression was culled - yes, even by those breeding dogs to fight hundreds of years ago - aggression towards humans is, and has always been, an unacceptable trait in the breed. The desire to please and the natural inclination for human companionship and affection have been bred into the APBT since the inception of the breed


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## lee hanson (Aug 30, 2010)

PREACHER MAN said:


> Thanks for the Video Mr. Hansen


thanks


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## CFGD (Aug 30, 2010)

The APBT has been bred throughout history based on performance. A well bred APBT has a steady temperament and is NOT inherently aggressive towards humans. In the past several years, an alarming number of local jurisdictions throughout the US have passed "breed specific" laws pertaining to "Pit Bulls" or "Dogs that are found to be of Pit Bull type". These laws are written in vague language and range from requiring the dog to be muzzled in public and forcing owner to take out a special insurance policy, to the outright banning of "Pit Bulls". These laws are unfair because they discriminate against a dog just because it is a certain breed, or that it "looks" like a certain breed. These laws fail to address the real problems of truly vicious dogs of any breed: IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS!!! 
When a person is attacked with a gun, which is responsible? The gun, the gun manufacturer or the handler?

~~~The handler of course.~~~
When a person is attacked with a knife, which is responsible? The knife, the knife manufacturer or the handler?

~~~The handler of course.~~~
When a person is attacked with a baseball bat, which is responsible? The baseball bat, the bat manufacturer, the sport of Baseball or the wielder of the bat?

~~~The wielder of the bat of course.~~~


 If a person is attacked by a German Shepherd who is responsible? The dog, the owner of the dog or the breed?

~~~The owner of course.~~~


If a person is attacked by a Labrador retriever who is responsible? The Lab, the owner of the dog, or the breed?

~~~The owner of course.~~~


Why would a German Shepherd or a Labrador attack humans? Either they where trained to attack or they were not trained at all. Now who is responsible? Is it the breed or the owner or the dog?

~~~The owner of course.~~~


If someone takes a gun and shoots another person, who is Irresponsible? The gun or the shooter?

~~~The shooter of course.~~~
Finally if an American Pit Bull Terrier attacks a person who is responsible?

~~~The owner, the dog or the breed? Of course it is still the owner, and the ONE dog, not the entire breed???? Why would it be any different from anything mentioned above?~~~


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## lee hanson (Aug 30, 2010)

ghh

Our Country was not founded on the restriction and punishment of the masses based on the actions of a few....when has this changed?

A five year study published in the Cincinnati Law Review in 1982, vol. 53, pg 1077, which specifically considered both Rottweilers and "pit bulls", concluded in part that:

"..statistics did not support the assertion that any one breed was dangerous, ..when legislation is focused on the type of dog it fails, because it is ... unenforceable, confusing, and costly. .. focusing legislation on dogs that are "vicious" distracts attention from the real problem, which is irresponsible owners


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## lee hanson (Aug 30, 2010)

ramfreak said:


> The APBT has been bred throughout history based on performance. A well bred APBT has a steady temperament and is NOT inherently aggressive towards humans. In the past several years, an alarming number of local jurisdictions throughout the US have passed "breed specific" laws pertaining to "Pit Bulls" or "Dogs that are found to be of Pit Bull type". These laws are written in vague language and range from requiring the dog to be muzzled in public and forcing owner to take out a special insurance policy, to the outright banning of "Pit Bulls". These laws are unfair because they discriminate against a dog just because it is a certain breed, or that it "looks" like a certain breed. These laws fail to address the real problems of truly vicious dogs of any breed: IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS!!!
> When a person is attacked with a gun, which is responsible? The gun, the gun manufacturer or the handler?
> 
> ~~~The handler of course.~~~
> ...


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## lee hanson (Aug 30, 2010)

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## Just BB (Oct 28, 2010)

Whatever! I'm a LEO and I have never been called out to a agressive Beagle, GSP, Lab, GS, G Retr, English BD, other the rest of the 99.99 percent of dogs in the city. Only and I mean only calls I've ever been called out to are AGRESSIVE PITTBULLS! Please explain this. Oh and I've had to draw iron on several that charged me.


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## bobman (Oct 28, 2010)

the woman died from "blunt force trama", the pitbulls used clubs??

Kind of a strange story IMO all big working class dogs are potentially dangerous, infact all dogs can be

I am intimidated by pitts and rotts and shepherds ( among others) if they act agressive, anyone with common sense would be.

I own a pit, I like him a lot, he takes management, much more than my other nine ( bird) dogs.

All breeds have inherent traits, thats the whole point of a breed.


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## GusGus (Oct 28, 2010)

bkl021475 said:


> Pit bull or whatever dog that the general public deems a pit bull has the worst owners, and I'm speaking in general, not those of you that have them and are responsible owners, or hunters, you are not included. How many lab, pointer, beagle, spaniel,or hound fighting rings do you hear of? How many attacks of these lab, pointer,beagle,spaniel, or hound breeds do you hear of? Sure any dog will bite, but look in the mirror, you have a breed of dog that was born and bred to be aggressive, and if one, or even one of yours,ever jumps you don't be suprised!



I know this post is old, but Im going to touch on this one. When pits were bred to fight way back when, they were not bred to be human aggressive. Animal aggressive, yes, but a fighting dog being human aggressive doesnt make sense. When these fights happened, many times the handlers were in the ring with these dogs. If the dogs locked up and had to be seperated each handler took his own dog. A dog that was human aggressive couldnt easily be controlled without harm to the handler. Therefore those dogs were generally eliminated from breeding stock so as not to pass that trait to future generations. 

I agree that more training should be available to the would be owners of any breed, not just APBT, that has the physical ability to do serious damage if a bite should occur. It start with the gangster culture that pits are often associated with. It has almost become to "in" thing to have a snarling slobbering pit on the end of a logging chain. Bad owner + bad breeding + powerful dog = bad idea.


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## builditbreakit (Nov 4, 2010)

*BTT for my opinion*

THIS BREED WILL HURT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and hey read the fine print SO WILL EVERY OTHER BREED.

This has been a discussion on the local radio this past week.
I listened for two days and could not take it any more.Had to call in and say :I see it this way if you cant handle it don't buy it.If you do have the courage to speak up and say I was to blame the dog was under my control.
Keep the OWNER responsible.
You say educated the owners well if they don't realize this is an ANIMAL then just blame our schools for that one.


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## ejs1980 (Nov 5, 2010)

I love pit bulls, but I'm not going to say they are flawless. A good pit has a potientally deadly combination of speed and power and has a good head on it's shoulders to control the speed and power. I have known several pits that so called snapped and bit or attempted to attack someone. Most of those I told the owners they needed to be put down long before anything happened. Alot of a dogs temperment is in the owners hand as a good dog can be ruined by neglect but most of it is in breeding. Another problem I have seen with the breed is seeing signs of aggression or un-warranted fear andd not taking the proper steps. A dog that shows aggression is easy to see and most people will get rid of them. The ones that "snap" lack confidence seem jumpy all the time even when just around it's family. They often seem like everyone wants to hurt them. They don't snap they were showing signs of it all along. 
They can be the best family dogs you will ever have. It really doesn't get any better than a good one. Then again it doesn't get much worse than a bad one.


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