# Brook Trout



## limbhanger (Oct 11, 2010)

Alright, who has the scoop on Native trout fishing in the TN/NC areas? I recently read an article in Garden & Gun magazine that many areas have reopened to native trout fishing above 3000'.  I spent my childhood to early teens fly fishing for Natives in Virginia and figured it was time to get back to my roots. Thanks!


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## limbhanger (Oct 12, 2010)

No takers, figures.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 12, 2010)

Most any little trout creek in the GSMNP and the national forest in western NC has some speckles if you go far enough up it, especially if you can get above a waterfall. Those little wild browns and rainbows will run the creeks all the way up if they can and will crowd out the specks. In the national park, they've poisoned all the non-native fish out of a few creeks, built fish barriers, and restocked with local specks from other nearby creeks. Not many people gonna give out precise locations. Too easy to fish those little creeks out.


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## Resica (Oct 12, 2010)

Come to Pennsylvania. Native Brookie streams all over the place!!


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Oct 12, 2010)

hey little hint...if ya want to catch brookies...also try the chestatee after stocking season ends...the natives explode


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## decoyed (Oct 12, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> hey little hint...if ya want to catch brookies...also try the chestatee after stocking season ends...the natives explode


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## Tightliner (Oct 13, 2010)

I will not post locations over the net, but I will tell you to get some good topos and look for areas well off the beaten path. Steep conture lines can mean barrier fall which you will be looking for. Without barriers, non-indigenous species move in and the natives simply cannot compete with introduced species. Another key is to check on logging activities over the past say...100 years. Uncontrolled logging devistated the habitat of our only indigenous species of trout (actually they technically are not trout, the are more closely related to char). Stands of virgin timber in high altitudes give a good chance that some of these painted fish still thrive. With lake turn over, fishing tailwaters is slow now. I spend this time of the year topo research and bush crashing. You are welcome to join me on my next trip (may have to blind fold you though!) Shoot me a PM. I'm headed up to the SoHo later this week to catch the baetis hatch, but after that will probably start hitting blue lines again.

Here are a couple from two weeks ago. Nothin big but well worth the effort!





Later.......................................


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## limbhanger (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks guys. If i could get back to Virginia, I know where a few streams are.


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## westcobbdog (Oct 13, 2010)

my Dad caught and mounted a 5lb brook trout caught out of the upper hooch years ago, nearly our state record. I have the mount now.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Oct 13, 2010)

decoyed said:


>



i love the ones who have only an icon to post....upper Chestattee and Frogtown are great places for brookies.....

these were caught in Frogtown a year or so ago...one rainbow and 2 Brooks. Spoke with local DNR Biologist who stated that Frogtown is only stocked with Browns and Rainbows.....


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## stev (Oct 14, 2010)

Coleman creek way in the woods holds a few natives & brookies .watch for the bears though .they like them too
Coleman creek is artifical only


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 14, 2010)

For the record, there is a huge difference between true native "speckled " brook trout and the typical brook trout that are found in the larger streams after being stocked. The native Southern Appalachian brook trout is a completely different genetic subspecies than the northern strain brooks which have been introduced to our creeks and can be found in nearly any trout stream, either newly stocked or streambred. A lot of mountain streams were restocked in the early 1900's with northern-strain "big" brookies after the native trout populations were destroyed by large-scale commercial logging at the turn of the century. The natives now live pretty much only in tiny headwater streams way back in the woods-creeks that you can jump across that don't have other types of fish in them. It's very rare to catch one more than 8-9" long, most are more like 4"-6" in length. The ones in Tightliner's pics are the natives. The ones in Chiefsquirrel83's pic are not the native type.


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## Huntervationist (Oct 14, 2010)

Topo, appalachian trail, and nice pack rod......the rest is up to you! clingamans dome has great parking.


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## Unicoidawg (Oct 14, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> For the record, there is a huge difference between true native "speckled " brook trout and the typical brook trout that are found in the larger streams after being stocked. The native Southern Appalachian brook trout is a completely different genetic subspecies than the northern strain brooks which have been introduced to our creeks and can be found in nearly any trout stream, either newly stocked or streambred. A lot of mountain streams were restocked in the early 1900's with northern-strain "big" brookies after the native trout populations were destroyed by large-scale commercial logging at the turn of the century. The natives now live pretty much only in tiny headwater streams way back in the woods-creeks that you can jump across that don't have other types of fish in them. It's very rare to catch one more than 8-9" long, most are more like 4"-6" in length. The ones in Tightliner's pics are the natives. The ones in Chiefsquirrel83's pic are not the native type.




Well stated and to the point. If you catch a brook trout down in the Chestatee anywhere down "low", it was stocked at one point or another. A native "brookie" is only in the upper most reaches of streams where rainbows and browns aren't. One of my friends works for the fisheries section and drives a stock truck out of the Burton Hatchery.... They do stock brook trout, but they ain't native brookies.


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## decoyed (Oct 14, 2010)

Unicoidawg said:


> Well stated and to the point. If you catch a brook trout down in the Chestatee anywhere down "low", it was stocked at one point or another. A native "brookie" is only in the upper most reaches of streams where rainbows and browns aren't. One of my friends works for the fisheries section and drives a stock truck out of the Burton Hatchery.... They do stock brook trout, but they ain't native brookies.


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## decoyed (Oct 14, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> i love the ones who have only an icon to post....upper Chestattee and Frogtown are great places for brookies.....
> 
> these were caught in Frogtown a year or so ago...one rainbow and 2 Brooks. Spoke with local DNR Biologist who stated that Frogtown is only stocked with Browns and Rainbows.....



caught several hundred of these little jewels in the last three months and PROMISE you that you are not catching native specks....


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## Unicoidawg (Oct 14, 2010)

Here are a few more true "brookies".

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=542056&highlight=


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## Resica (Oct 14, 2010)

Unicoidawg said:


> Well stated and to the point. If you catch a brook trout down in the Chestatee anywhere down "low", it was stocked at one point or another. A native "brookie" is only in the upper most reaches of streams where rainbows and browns aren't. One of my friends works for the fisheries section and drives a stock truck out of the Burton Hatchery.... They do stock brook trout, but they ain't native brookies.


There are many "native brookie" streams up this way that also contain wild brownies in some sections. That's  how you'll find an occasional  wild "tiger", female brown and a male brookie.


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## Resica (Oct 14, 2010)

Here's a Brookie web site. Don't know if it'll help. See if the Southern Appalachian GIS center has any maps.


http://www.wildtroutstreams.com/


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## 2bbshot (Oct 14, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> i love the ones who have only an icon to post....upper Chestattee and Frogtown are great places for brookies.....
> 
> these were caught in Frogtown a year or so ago...one rainbow and 2 Brooks. Spoke with local DNR Biologist who stated that Frogtown is only stocked with Browns and Rainbows.....



They may not be stocked by DNR in Frogtown but they were stocked someone. Go up to cherokee they stock some giant brooke trout up there. I caught a one up there last year that was 21in long and 16 inches in girth. Cool but not a native spec their special.


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## fishndoc (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, it for certain is not a "true native Brookie", but I've been looking for an excuse to post this picture of this hog-Brookie I caught on the Nantahala DH last week:


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## limbhanger (Oct 14, 2010)

Very nice Fishndoc.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 14, 2010)

That's a nice'un, been in there long enough to start coloring up. Resica, a lot of the little tiny creeks around here are full of beautiful little wild browns, too-one of the reasons that the specks are having a rough time.


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## Resica (Oct 14, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> That's a nice'un, been in there long enough to start coloring up. Resica, a lot of the little tiny creeks around here are full of beautiful little wild browns, too-one of the reasons that the specks are having a rough time.



I agree, the browns and wild bows( though fairly few and far between up here) aren't doing the brookies  any favors. All those wild fish are beautiful though.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Oct 14, 2010)

they do not stock brooks in Frogtown...verified today...


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## Resica (Oct 14, 2010)

Stocked trout can and will disperse a long way. Have fins , will travel.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 15, 2010)

I fish some creeks that haven't been stocked at all in thirty years, but the descendants of the stockers are still in there.


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## Unicoidawg (Oct 15, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> I fish some creeks that haven't been stocked at all in thirty years, but the descendants of the stockers are still in there.



Exactly.... If you catch a "native" rainbow or brown anywhere in north Georgia, it was stocked into that stream at one point or another. The only "native" trout to Georgia is a brook trout, which technically isn't a trout at all. It is a type of Char. 

http://fish.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/Salmonidae/brook_trout.html


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## Resica (Oct 15, 2010)

There are no native bows or browns in Ga. or Pa., wild maybe but not native.


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## Resica (Oct 15, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> I fish some creeks that haven't been stocked at all in thirty years, but the descendants of the stockers are still in there.


Plenty of streams up here that aren't stocked that hold trout other than brookies. Just have to put the feet on the ground. Plenty of streams that hold large trout that haven't been stocked in years or have  never been stocked.


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## olcowman (Oct 15, 2010)

Heck I'll throw out a couple of easy ones... Tellicoe in Tennessee. Park above the ranger station and start walking upstream. Walk till you can't walk no more then go a little further. As far as I can tell them up there are the real thing. And... if you want to stay in GA, follow the Hooch thru Helen and straight up the mountain towards its head. Lots of feeder streams and the Hooch itself has good populations of natives when you get past where all the yahoos fish. 

Both these are all day trips at the very least and cover some rough ground. But if you are really after some native brooks these are a couple I would give a shot.


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## fishinbub (Oct 15, 2010)

There are no creeks that get "official" stockings of brookies except the Tooga and Savanah (from SC) but there are some thrown in here and there. There are no known brookie populations in Lumpkin(doesn't mean they aren't there, but they are VERY small and in the EXTREME headwaters if they are there), so the odds of wild brookies in Frogtown or Chestatee are almost 0. It's not like they could have drifted down from a feeder (since that is rare on a stream with multiple brookie filled feeders, much less two in a day in a watershed not known to have brookies) There is a lot of private land on Frogtown, so odds are they were stocked privately. I've caught stocker brookies in Dicks (same watershed), and don't underestimate how far they will travel...


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## Tightliner (Oct 21, 2010)

NCHillbilly said:


> For the record, there is a huge difference between true native "speckled " brook trout and the typical brook trout that are found in the larger streams after being stocked. The native Southern Appalachian brook trout is a completely different genetic subspecies than the northern strain brooks which have been introduced to our creeks and can be found in nearly any trout stream, either newly stocked or streambred. A lot of mountain streams were restocked in the early 1900's with northern-strain "big" brookies after the native trout populations were destroyed by large-scale commercial logging at the turn of the century. The natives now live pretty much only in tiny headwater streams way back in the woods-creeks that you can jump across that don't have other types of fish in them. It's very rare to catch one more than 8-9" long, most are more like 4"-6" in length. The ones in Tightliner's pics are the natives. The ones in Chiefsquirrel83's pic are not the native type.



YEP.

If there is not a barrier fall and virgin timber, they are probably not indigenous. Southern App specs simply cant compete with introduced species. If brookies are caught in a "mixed bag" of fish, they were probably stocked or decendants of stocked Northern sub-species.

Later......................................


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## fishinbub (Oct 21, 2010)

Tightliner said:


> YEP.
> 
> If there is not a barrier fall and virgin timber, they are probably not indigenous. Southern App specs simply cant compete with introduced species. If brookies are caught in a "mixed bag" of fish, they were probably stocked or decendants of stocked Northern sub-species.
> 
> Later......................................



I think you'd be surprised by how resilient those natives are. I've caught wild brookies in places they weren't supposed to be, and there are a few streams where you can catch a mixed bag that includes true native brookies. But, the Chestatee is not one of those places... 

There is no need to go to NC/Tenn. Plenty of good native brookie fishing in Ga. Look for 2k+ elevation and a  barrier falls. HINT lots of elevation change on a topo map means the odds of a "barrier falls" are very good. Alot of times a stream will go through rapid elevation change, then flatten out up high where the brookies are...


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 21, 2010)

I know a few little creeks where I catch specks mixed with little wild browns or rainbows, but seems like there are less specks every year in those creeks, and they keep getting further upstream all the time.


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## limbhanger (Oct 21, 2010)

Wish I could go back in time and relive the many hours i fished behind my father. I know for a fact, that I was blessed to have fished some of the best Native trout streams in Virginia. I remember my father telling me that one day brookies would be be gone due to poor forestry and land management. My father, was half Cherokee Indian, native fishing I believe came natural for him.


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## Nitram4891 (Oct 25, 2010)

Caught a few wild rainbows this weekend but no brookies.  Those little rainbows sure were beautiful though.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Nov 4, 2010)

went further up Frogtown and finally caught some real Brookies last weekend none of those green pork fed ones in the pic....largest one was about 6 1/2 inches....it was COLD!!!!


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## GP Burdell (Nov 8, 2010)

olcowman said:


> Heck I'll throw out a couple of easy ones... Tellicoe in Tennessee. Park above the ranger station and start walking upstream. Walk till you can't walk no more then go a little further. As far as I can tell them up there are the real thing. And... if you want to stay in GA, follow the Hooch thru Helen and straight up the mountain towards its head. Lots of feeder streams and the Hooch itself has good populations of natives when you get past where all the yahoos fish.
> 
> Both these are all day trips at the very least and cover some rough ground. But if you are really after some native brooks these are a couple I would give a shot.




I'll echo that.  I've found a few small ones that appear to be natives way up in the hills of the Hooch watershed.  Had to hike a long way and at one point rappel down a cliff to access the stream but they were fun to catch on dry flies.  Can't say if they really were natives because I didn't run genetic tests but they sure didn't look like any rainbow or brook that I've ever seen.


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