# The Origin Of God



## Turkeypaw (Feb 8, 2014)

Where did god come from? Christians believe that a god created everything so who or what created the god?

I am an atheist but I am curious about your opinions on this. Most, if not all, Christians don't believe that the everything was created from "nothing". So, if a god created us and everything else, how was god created?

Not wanting to start an argument, just curious about the answer. I thought I would get a better answer here instead of the atheist forum.


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## gordon 2 (Feb 8, 2014)

Turkeypaw said:


> Where did god come from? Christians believe that a god created everything so who or what created the god?
> 
> I am an atheist but I am curious about your opinions on this. Most, if not all, Christians don't believe that the everything was created from "nothing". So, if a god created us and everything else, how was god created?
> 
> Not wanting to start an argument, just curious about the answer. I thought I would get a better answer here instead of the atheist forum.



Ask in the forum above maybe? Spiritual discussion and study might be a better place for your question. maybe.

I would suggest that the answer to your question, nevertheless, is God always was and a being outside and inside our physical realities capable of appreciation by man from the moment He said "Let there be..." and that, " it was good." 

There are, however, more classic answers by more classy folk...


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## 1gr8bldr (Feb 8, 2014)

Hello Turkey Paw, I think both sides of the argument, my own included, are unfoundational. We have nothing but speculation. The typical answer from both sides is "it just was". I can't speak for all the atheist or the Christians. Christians believe that God has always existed, he just was. Athiest believe that the universe has always existed, it just was. We neither have a foundation. As wise as man is, having figured out so many things, their will always be that which we don't know. I say this with "infinity" in mind. Where does the universe end, I can't comprehend infinity


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## gordon 2 (Feb 8, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Turkey Paw, I think both sides of the argument, my own included, are unfoundational. We have nothing but speculation. The typical answer from both sides is "it just was". I can't speak for all the atheist or the Christians. Christians believe that God has always existed, he just was. Athiest believe that the universe has always existed, it just was. We neither have a foundation. As wise as man is, having figured out so many things, their will always be that which we don't know. I say this with "infinity" in mind. Where does the universe end, I can't comprehend infinity




Yea, that's what I mean by more classy...


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## WaltL1 (Feb 8, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hello Turkey Paw, I think both sides of the argument, my own included, are unfoundational. We have nothing but speculation. The typical answer from both sides is "it just was". I can't speak for all the atheist or the Christians. Christians believe that God has always existed, he just was. Athiest believe that the universe has always existed, it just was. We neither have a foundation. As wise as man is, having figured out so many things, their will always be that which we don't know. I say this with "infinity" in mind. Where does the universe end, I can't comprehend infinity





> Athiest believe that the universe has always existed, it just was.


A more accurate Atheist position is "we don't know".
As you said anything else is just speculation.


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## Bpruitt (Feb 8, 2014)

I don't know is how I view it,His origin is past my comprehension level so I just go with faith even though I know I am not able to completely understand.


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## formula1 (Feb 10, 2014)

*Re:*

Genesis 1:1 'In the beginning God' whenever the beginning was. God himself also said of himself 'I am' according to scripture!

Now since I am one of faith, I have come to trust that and accept it. For this especially, I am quiet happy with what I don't know, for what I do know of the grace of God is sufficient in the revelation of His Son Christ!


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## Artfuldodger (Feb 10, 2014)

I believe God has no beginning or end. Jesus on the other hand was the Alpha & Omega. 
Jesus Christ is the beginning because he created the earth; he is the end because he is our advocate with the Father at the final judgment.


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## Lowjack (Feb 10, 2014)

We see beginning and we see the end to all things created in this tridimensional Universe , that is why we wonder so when was G-d created ? He wasn't ,he always is Was and will be that is why he is G-d and we are just a creation with a beginning and an end.
G-d is a reality not subject to the same laws that apply to us or anything physical.
G-d is Spirit so he is not subject to death he's eternal going back and forward.


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## Jeffriesw (Feb 11, 2014)

Here is some excerpts from the Westminster Confession of Faith with Scripture proofs. As an aetheist, I would guess you would not find it convincing, but here is a summary of what classically has been believed by by protestant Christians.

Sorry it is so long, it is a cut and paste from a website of my Church, The Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)

http://www.pcaac.org/

CHAPTER 2
Of God, and of the Holy Trinity

1. There is but one only, living, and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him; and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.

2. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things; and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleaseth. In his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent, or uncertain. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.

3. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.


For the sake of brevity, I did not post the scripture proofs fro the above, but they can be found here ~~~> http://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WCFScriptureProofs.pdf


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## PGP (Jul 24, 2014)

Turkeypaw,
Thanks for being wise enough to at least be willing to ask such a question.  I believe my God is an eternal being.  If "someone" had created him he would have to be something "less" than that someone and could not qualify to be called "God".  The very idea of God is that there is nothing greater, higher, wiser, stronger, etc.  In fact, in the scripture, the Israelites are scolded for being silly enough to "make" a god out of wood, stone or metal and then thinking that anything they could make would be worthy of being worshipped.  There is also a Bible verse speaking about a man named Melchisedek (who many Bible students believe to be a "theophany" or earthly appearance of God) that describes him as being without beginning and without end.  In that Melchisedek is without mother or father, has no beginning of days and no end of days he is like God.  Hebrews 7:3.  Just be willing to keep asking good questions.  If Christ is the truth, as he claims to be, then one day you will believe it as many others do.  I find that many people that deny the existence of God do it because if they ever come to realize that God is real then they also know that he should be the one in charge.  And they don't want anyone else to be in charge, so they resist.


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## WaltL1 (Jul 25, 2014)

PGP said:


> Turkeypaw,
> Thanks for being wise enough to at least be willing to ask such a question.  I believe my God is an eternal being.  If "someone" had created him he would have to be something "less" than that someone and could not qualify to be called "God".  The very idea of God is that there is nothing greater, higher, wiser, stronger, etc.  In fact, in the scripture, the Israelites are scolded for being silly enough to "make" a god out of wood, stone or metal and then thinking that anything they could make would be worthy of being worshipped.  There is also a Bible verse speaking about a man named Melchisedek (who many Bible students believe to be a "theophany" or earthly appearance of God) that describes him as being without beginning and without end.  In that Melchisedek is without mother or father, has no beginning of days and no end of days he is like God.  Hebrews 7:3.  Just be willing to keep asking good questions.  If Christ is the truth, as he claims to be, then one day you will believe it as many others do.  I find that many people that deny the existence of God do it because if they ever come to realize that God is real then they also know that he should be the one in charge.  And they don't want anyone else to be in charge, so they resist.





> And they don't want anyone else to be in charge, so they resist.


That's pretty interesting. As an Agnostic I have had lots of conversations with Atheists/Agnostics and never once was that the reason given for not believing in gods.


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## gordon 2 (Jul 25, 2014)

God sees good. God names. God sets the marks of time, sets  living creatures to produce, to be fruitful and increase. God creates and says. God creates man to his image: male and female. Sets man up at the top of the food chain with specific direction or responsibility.

God can seemingly stem from fallen man's need for a sure mark of what is good and good order and a need to be at the top of the food chain. But man stems from God's spirit before the fall where man's needs were taken care of and all was GOOD.

 Therefore we might attribute the origin of God to the designs and needs of fallen man who still wishes to forego his responsibilities as per his origins. However God's origin must be attributed to the first Adam's awareness of the Divine or man before the fall, when " And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed".

The Creator who was all good was the God of Adam and not because of Adam's need, but simply  because He was good, saw good, and created goodness. No human mind could have created Adam to be as innocent as God created him. Therefore the origin of God is quite out of man's possibility to originate Him.

Man's view of God is more than not a vision of the Devine out of man's need for innocence. It is only through prayer ( our rest from the world of good and evil)  that the source of this innocence can be apprehended and not out of our lives of selfish needs. In the selfless surrender to Christ, the second Adam and the Devine, it is ours to spiritually discern --the origin of this innocence as a calling out from what we think we need and that the calling out is not from us but originated from the relationship Adam had with his Father.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 25, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> That's pretty interesting. As an Agnostic I have had lots of conversations with Atheists/Agnostics and never once was that the reason given for not believing in gods.



Maybe their names aren't in the Book of Life or they haven't been given the gift to believe.

Ecclesiastes 6:10
Whatever has happened was foreordained, and what happens to a person was also foreknown. It is useless for him to argue with God about his fate because God is more powerful than he is.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 

(Satan has blinded them, they need God to open their eyes so they can see the light.)


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## WaltL1 (Jul 25, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Maybe their names aren't in the Book of Life or they haven't been given the gift to believe.
> 
> Ecclesiastes 6:10
> Whatever has happened was foreordained, and what happens to a person was also foreknown. It is useless for him to argue with God about his fate because God is more powerful than he is.


Or maybe there is no Book of Life or gift to receive.
Or maybe there is.
Or maybe it is all foreordained.
Maybe for some people they go with maybe yes and for some people they go with maybe no until its not a matter of maybe but a matter of fact.
Lots of maybes'.


> (Satan has blinded them, they need God to open their eyes so they can see the light.)


You just took foreordained out of the picture.


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## gemcgrew (Jul 25, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> You just took foreordained out of the picture.


Not if everything in his statement is foreordained.


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