# Crumbs



## formula1 (Jan 12, 2012)

What a glorious feast it is to dine on the crumbs from the Master's table!

Matthew 15
21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 12, 2012)

formula1 said:


> What a glorious feast it is to dine on the crumbs from the Master's table!
> 
> Matthew 15
> 21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.



 Ya got to Love dogs and goats pilgrim.


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## JB0704 (Jan 12, 2012)

Of everything we have on Jesus, verse 26 causes me the most confusion.  

Anybody have any thoughts on why he might have said that, or the purpose?


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## formula1 (Jan 12, 2012)

*Re:*



JB0704 said:


> Of everything we have on Jesus, verse 26 causes me the most confusion.
> 
> Anybody have any thoughts on why he might have said that, or the purpose?



To look for and find faithfulness in those He meets, though the bread was intended for His own people (or so it was thought)! I am sure Jesus knew exactly where He would find faithfulness and where He would not and this was an opportunity to showcase His awareness of His mission! What does John say?

John 1
11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 

The better question might be, 'Why does this woman have more faith than the men of Israel?'

Faith is born in the heart and spirit of the woman and not by flesh or inheritance.

So even if I am a dog, I would be content with these crumbs that the master provides. Crumbs for the spirit are eternal. Feasts of the flesh are temporal.


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## formula1 (Jan 12, 2012)

*Re:*



gordon 2 said:


> Ya got to Love dogs and goats pilgrim.



Indeed sir! Blessings to you by the Holy Spirit!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 12, 2012)

formula1 said:


> To look for and find faithfulness in those He meets, though the bread was intended for His own people (or so it was thought)! I am sure Jesus knew exactly where He would find faithfulness and where He would not and this was an opportunity to showcase His awareness of His mission! What does John say?
> 
> John 1
> 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
> ...



Amen.

and we the 'unclean dogs' (gentiles) were grafted in.
I, too, will take the crumbs.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 12, 2012)

formula1 said:


> What a glorious feast it is to dine on the crumbs from the Master's table!
> 
> Matthew 15
> 21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.



Every time I read vs. 28 I picture Jesus with a little smile on His face; like the one on my face many years ago when my 6 yr. old son walk up to me, having just come from visiting a 90+ yr. old lady a couple of houses up the street, and said "Dad, you just got to be cool to be a little old lady".

Like many of his gifts, God places His wisdom where we least expect to find it.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 12, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> Every time I read vs. 28 I picture Jesus with a little smile on His face; like the one on my face many years ago when my 6 yr. old son walk up to me, having just come from visiting a 90+ yr. old lady a couple of houses up the street, and said "Dad, you just got to be cool to be a little old lady".
> 
> Like many of his gifts, God places His wisdom where we least expect to find it.




Awwwwwwww that's such a sweet story. I wish we could stay as pure and 'simple' minded as children, we would get much more out of life and give much more life to others, wouldn't we?


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## gordon 2 (Jan 13, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Of everything we have on Jesus, verse 26 causes me the most confusion.
> 
> Anybody have any thoughts on why he might have said that, or the purpose?



I would find out what canaanites were to Jews and Christians in Matthews days. We know that in the days of Moses, and after, canaanites with their many Gods or idols were the cause of spritual corruption for some of the decendants of the hebrews.


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## WELLS8230 (Jan 13, 2012)

parables


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## RNC (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> What a glorious feast it is to dine on the crumbs from the Master's table!
> 
> Matthew 15
> 21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.






formula1 said:


> To look for and find faithfulness in those He meets, though the bread was intended for His own people (or so it was thought)! I am sure Jesus knew exactly where He would find faithfulness and where He would not and this was an opportunity to showcase His awareness of His mission! What does John say?
> 
> John 1
> 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
> ...


good stuff



mtnwoman said:


> Amen.
> 
> and we the 'unclean dogs' (gentiles) were grafted in.
> I, too, will take the crumbs.


As will I !!



hummerpoo said:


> Every time I read vs. 28 I picture Jesus with a little smile on His face; like the one on my face many years ago when my 6 yr. old son walk up to me, having just come from visiting a 90+ yr. old lady a couple of houses up the street, and said "Dad, you just got to be cool to be a little old lady".
> 
> Like many of his gifts, God places His wisdom where we least expect to find it.


awesome !



mtnwoman said:


> Awwwwwwww that's such a sweet story. I wish we could stay as pure and 'simple' minded as children, we would get much more out of life and give much more life to others, wouldn't we?


yes we certainly would 

I must say I enjoyed this thread this morning ...thanxz !


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> To look for and find faithfulness in those He meets, though the bread was intended for His own people (or so it was thought)!



Ok, so you believe it was a test?  Or am I mistaken what you are saying?


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*



JB0704 said:


> Ok, so you believe it was a test?  Or am I mistaken what you are saying?



I don't call it a test so much as I call it a 'bringing to light' or 'exposure' of where true faithfulness lies for all to see and learn from.  

I might add that the teachings of Christ cannot be understood intellectually, but rather spiritually.   But that's beyond the scope of your question.


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I don't call it a test so much as I call it a 'bringing to light' or 'exposure' of where true faithfulness lies for all to see and learn from..



Ok, so you see it as an example.  



formula1 said:


> I might add that the teachings of Christ cannot be understood intellectually, but rather spiritually.   But that's beyond the scope of your question.



Now I'm curious.  Would you explain the difference as you see it and how it is applicable?


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*

When you come to Christ, the Holy Spirit comes and makes his dwelling place inside you, in the innerman, the 'heart' or the spirit. God promised insight into His truth and understanding by His Holy Spirit. 

The intellectual or natural mind is said to be a detriment to the understanding the things of God.  

So using the passage you quoted as confusing from Jesus (V26), a intellectual understanding says Jesus said, 'You don't deserve the power I have for it is meant for my people'.  The spiritual understanding was returned by the woman in Verse 27, both accepting the Lord's decree yet also knowing and understanding the love gift resident in Christ. She portrayed confidence, respect, and loyalty to Christ and received a declaration of great faith and the answer from the Lord she desired. A purely intellectual response would not have received the blessing.

Intellectual faith, for another example, says one can believe in God because of a test based upon an accepted validity of evidence, like the historical record perhaps. But it is not a personal and intimate relationship with the Spirit of the Living God, therefore lacking much in its validity.

Saving faith by contrast says that I have met Him and know Him and He knows me, and further, that I am doing my part to understand Him by His Word through the Holy Spirit, build relationship with Him by prayer, and set Him on the throne of my life as Lord and Christ.

Now, I could have quoted a myriad of scriptures on this subject, but as you requested I tried to put it in my own words. I hope it helps!


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

Can one aid and assist the other?  Such as Ravi Zacharias building his career on apologetics.  That would appear to be an intellectual pursuit.


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*



JB0704 said:


> Can one aid and assist the other?  Such as Ravi Zacharias building his career on apologetics.  That would appear to be an intellectual pursuit.



So what is the purpose of apologetics in your view?


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> So what is the purpose of apologetics in your view?



Defense of the faith through reason.


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*

Therefore, if one is steeped in an intellectual position, then another man of faith makes an effort from the intellectual perspective to lead one to the understanding and acceptance of a position of faith, isn't that an effort to lead the intellectual to the spiritual?


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## hummerpoo (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> When you come to Christ, the Holy Spirit comes and makes his dwelling place inside you, in the innerman, the 'heart' or the spirit. God promised insight into His truth and understanding by His Holy Spirit.
> 
> The intellectual or natural mind is said to be a detriment to the understanding the things of God.
> 
> ...



Amen!

The natural mind can understand what is written, but the seeing, the knowing, and the abiding are not of this world.

If I may add scripture:
John 14
 16.  "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
 17.  {that is} the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
 18.  "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
 19.  "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you {will} see Me; because I live, you will live also.

The woman's "seeing and knowing" were reflected in her response.

F1, please correct any misunderstanding of your point on my part.


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*

Hummerpoo:

That's certainly one of the scriptures I was thinking of in my writing.  Very nice!

Here's a couple additional scriptures for your study:

John 16:12-14
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.  The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

God Bless!


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> Therefore, if one is steeped in an intellectual position, then another man of faith makes an effort from the intellectual perspective to lead one to the understanding and acceptance of a position of faith, isn't that an effort to lead the intellectual to the spiritual?



Yes, which is why I asked if one supports the other.  

I appreciate everything you and HP have said on the subject.


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