# Stairway To Heaven



## Buckmoses (Jan 6, 2009)

Brothers and sisters, 

I wanted to warn you all of evil that lurks right under our noses.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf0M1G1At28&feature=related


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## Ronnie T (Jan 6, 2009)

Buckmoses said:


> Brothers and sisters,
> 
> I wanted to warn you all of evil that lurks right under our noses.
> 
> ...




Well, I feel like I should say something after hearing that but I don't know what to say.

Could that be real?


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 6, 2009)




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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 7, 2009)

Awesome.  One of the best clips on youtube.


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## jason4445 (Jan 7, 2009)

Man if you have to spend hours playing rock songs backwards to find what you suspect is evil in this world, you really need to get out more.  Plenty of evil just outside your front door, you don't have to play songs backwards to find it.

People have been playing songs backwards since the 60's and claim to find all sorts of things even in the Popeye song and Mary Poppins.  It basically started with the Beatles. Here is a web page, warning contains bad language sometimes.

http://www.reversespeech.com/music_reversals.htm


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## pigpen1 (Jan 7, 2009)

I guess years ago they had to play groups like this backwards to find lyrics to Satan, now days you can play the modern songs forwards and hear the lyrics with no problem or question to what they are saying.....


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## Israel (Jan 7, 2009)

When I sang "Happy Birthday" at my daughter's party someone had a video recorder. When you play it backward you can hear me say "Pull my finger"

Just joking.

But yes, I remember when someone thought they were trying to give clues to Paul McCartney's death, I wonder how many Beatle albums were ruined by running them backwards.


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## THREEJAYS (Jan 7, 2009)

Israel said:


> When I sang "Happy Birthday" at my daughter's party someone had a video recorder. When you play it backward you can hear me say "Pull my finger"
> 
> Just joking.
> 
> But yes, I remember when someone thought they were trying to give clues to Paul McCartney's death, I wonder how many Beatle albums were ruined by running them backwards.


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## shawn mills (Jan 7, 2009)

I heard Kenny listened to "Country boy can survive " backwards and it said "start wearin dresses.


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## gordon 2 (Jan 7, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48iPqSA68VA&feature=related

There is backwards, but when backwards is on our side....we win every time.


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## BookHound (Jan 7, 2009)

Yep, and Queen thinks it is "fun to smoke marijuana".  Just play Another One Bites the Dust backwards and they'll tell you so.



Backmasking some tribute to Satan?  Whatever.


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## Lead Poison (Jan 7, 2009)

Backmasking or not, I want nothing to do with a song, or group that praises Satan, or mocks God.


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## Buckmoses (Jan 7, 2009)

israel said:


> when i sang "happy birthday" at my daughter's party someone had a video recorder. When you play it backward you can hear me say "pull my finger"
> 
> just joking.
> 
> But yes, i remember when someone thought they were trying to give clues to paul mccartney's death, i wonder how many beatle albums were ruined by running them backwards.


lmbo!!!!


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## BookHound (Jan 7, 2009)

Lead Poison said:


> Backmasking or not, I want nothing to do with a song, or group that praises Satan, or mocks God.



Are you suggesting Led Zeppelin or the song Stairway to Heaven praises Satan or mocks God?


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## Buzz (Jan 7, 2009)

I remember when some kooks showed up at my church in the 80s with this stuff.  I think they accomplished driving a bunch of teenagers away from church more than anything else.


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## Big7 (Jan 8, 2009)

To much time on your hands.

That is the best song EVER! Played forward of course!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 8, 2009)

Big7 said:


> To much time on your hands.
> 
> That is the best song EVER! Played forward of course!



For real!!


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

most all hard rockers (Paige, Plant, Jagger) are satanic. The lead guitarist for the Stone(r)s bought the castle in England that was owned by Alistair Crowley who was a famous satanist. He said that he wanted the "vibes" that was in Crowley's castle.. he meant satanic vibes...  being a past metal head (Crue, Maiden, Megadeth...) I can assure you that most of their music is satanic. I have heard of dozens of songs that when played backwards make the same type of satanic sounds...  Dont be fooled, you can also play backwards the sermons of Kenneth Copeland and also hear satans demons talking.... we dont realize how "spiritual" our world is... and just how satan influences just about everything...


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Are you suggesting Led Zeppelin or the song Stairway to Heaven praises Satan or mocks God?



most all of those rocker guys are satanic...


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## ToLog (Jan 8, 2009)

seems like a few years back a guy on the Art Bell Show, remember him? had developed a device that played politicians and others speeches backward. 

he would record them, and reverse them, and then he could "hear" all of the messages that appeared by way of the backward playing.

i must have had a bad radio, because i could never hear it as well as he claimed to.  i think he sold those machines for awhile.


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## fivesolas (Jan 8, 2009)

And then there is this one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1cRJruIljw


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 8, 2009)

Big7 said:


> To much time on your hands.
> 
> That is the best song EVER! Played forward of course!




Never could quite get into zep forwards or backwards .


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## BookHound (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> most all hard rockers (Paige, Plant, Jagger) are satanic. The lead guitarist for the Stone(r)s bought the castle in England that was owned by Alistair Crowley who was a famous satanist. He said that he wanted the "vibes" that was in Crowley's castle.. he meant satanic vibes...  being a past metal head (Crue, Maiden, Megadeth...) I can assure you that most of their music is satanic. I have heard of dozens of songs that when played backwards make the same type of satanic sounds...  Dont be fooled, you can also play backwards the sermons of Kenneth Copeland and also hear satans demons talking.... we dont realize how "spiritual" our world is... and just how satan influences just about everything...





LOL.  This from a guy whose location is listed as "Not of this world..."   

Regarding Crowley, being an occultist doesn't make him a Satan worshiper.   

Oh, and Crowley's place was purchased by Jimmy Page.


Take care.

Mark


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## earl (Jan 8, 2009)

There is some pure ignorance in this thread. I would like to see the back up for '' most all hard rockers ''.


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

BookHound said:


> LOL.  This from a guy whose location is listed as "Not of this world..."
> 
> Regarding Crowley, being an occultist doesn't make him a Satan worshiper.
> 
> ...



Jesus was "not of this world"... so i guess we have to dismiss everything He said...        

A.C. gave himself the name... "The Great Beast" and was fascinated with 666...  ?

Aleister Crowley, born Edward Alexander Crowley, was a British occultist, writer, mountaineer, philosopher, poet, and mystic. He was an influential member in several occult organizations, including the Golden Dawn, the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), and is best known today for his occult writings, especially The Book of the Law, the central sacred text of Thelema. He gained much notoriety during his lifetime, and was infamously dubbed "The Wickedest Man In the World." 

Crowley was a chess player, mountain climber, poet, painter, astrologer, hedonist, bisexual, drug experimenter, and social critic. Crowley had claimed to be a Freemason, but the regularity of his initiations with the United Grand Lodge of England has been disputed. 

the last time i checked, God hates the occult, hedonism, gay sex, mysticism, magic and astrology....  hmm.

heres a biography...  he sounds like a great man...
http://www.answers.com/topic/aleister-crowley


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

earl said:


> There is some pure ignorance in this thread. I would like to see the back up for '' most all hard rockers ''.



ignorance??  thats what a Christian should be calling another person...  

the lyrics of the rocker's songs says it all...

http://www.av1611.org/rock.html

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/devils_music.htm

http://radiosatan666.com/

http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/satanic-quotes.htm

why dont you people do some research on a particular topic before firing back at somebody who has done the research... what does God tell us about that?

Proverbs 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him...


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## Dogmusher (Jan 8, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


>



Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> ignorance??  thats what a Christian should be calling another person...
> 
> the lyrics of the rocker's songs says it all...
> 
> ...





Some scary stuff right there


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## BookHound (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> Jesus was "not of this world"... so i guess we have to dismiss everything He said...



Who said anything about dismissing something?  It was humorous is all I was stating.  Are you saying you are not of this world?  It was merely a humorous observation.



> A.C. gave himself the name... "The Great Beast" and was fascinated with 666...  ?
> 
> Aleister Crowley, born Edward Alexander Crowley, was a British occultist, writer, mountaineer, philosopher, poet, and mystic. He was an influential member in several occult organizations, including the Golden Dawn, the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), and is best known today for his occult writings, especially The Book of the Law, the central sacred text of Thelema. He gained much notoriety during his lifetime, and was infamously dubbed "The Wickedest Man In the World."
> 
> ...



Do you even KNOW what it means to be a satanist?  I agree he was no angel but too frequently people throw around the "satanist!" label without it being justified or without actually understanding what being a true satan worshiper means.


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Who said anything about dismissing something?  It was humorous is all I was stating.  Are you saying you are not of this world?  It was merely a humorous observation.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even KNOW what it means to be a satanist?  I agree he was no angel but too frequently people throw around the "satanist!" label without it being justified or without actually understanding what being a true satan worshiper means.



no, i am no expert an satanism...  dont want to be.
by reading up on A.C. i think its safe to assume that he would be considered a satanist. Jesus told a religious person..." you are of your father the devil..."... so if a religious person can be "of the devil"... i think its a safe bet that A.C. was of his father the devil, but since i never knew the guy who knows...     God I guess...


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## earl (Jan 8, 2009)

Based on your rhetoric ,would I be safe to say that most christian preachers are lying,adulterous people [Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker,et al ] Also please dont call me christian, the tag doesnt fit. When you say the lyrics say it all, does that mean you think thats what a person actually believes ? IMHO most singers will sing whatever makes the most money .


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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

earl said:


> Based on your rhetoric ,would I be safe to say that most christian preachers are lying,adulterous people [Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker,et al ] Also please dont call me christian, the tag doesnt fit. When you say the lyrics say it all, does that mean you think thats what a person actually believes ? IMHO most singers will sing whatever makes the most money .



most Christian preachers, adulterous?? no, but only God knows.  liars? yes. Jesus said, "you'll know them by their fruits..."...  and He said, that ALL men are liars, yes that includes me. i wont call you anything... 

yes, i do believe that if a singer writes a song, it comes from their heart and whatever is in these lyrics in in their heart.  they have no idea what "lyrics" or songs will get them rich... if they did, we'd all be writing songs to get rich... well, the people who are after "earthly riches", that is...

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also...

even Jesus confirmed this...

btw, if you're not a Christian, why are you here?


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## Ruger#3 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Jeesh...*



Big10point said:


> btw, if you're not a Christian, why are you here?



The reason for so many empty church pews could not have been more plainly put.

Dont drop by here to learn.......your not one of "us."


I fear the threat those folks on that stage are to the weak and vulnerable so much more than that slow turning backwards tape!


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## BookHound (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> btw, if you're not a Christian, why are you here?



You are new to the board so maybe you missed the title of this forum:

"Spiritual Discussions, Debate and Study"

Yeah, we even let non-Christians play here.  We're funny like that.


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## Buzz (Jan 8, 2009)

I honestly thought this was an attempt at humor.   I guess not.    Then again that makes it absolutely hilarious...


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## matthewsman (Jan 8, 2009)

*I don't mess around with it..*

I'll face big dogs and run through the woods at night with no light and fear no snake(as long as I see it first)

I might not obey or always live right,but I try not to blaspheme...I sure don't challenge Satan...

I do think we live in a more spiritual world than is readily apparent.

I remember seeing this too...in the 80's Buzz and it IS pretty obvious when you hear it on a reel to reel recorder with decent sound.

I remember the sayings " I live with Satan" "Jesus is the nasty one" He will give you 666"and the other parts that were sampled in that video...The story is that he wrote the song in a few minutes and had the sensation of another hand guiding his to write the words...Supposedly just "flowed"no struggle with the melody or anything...

I understand also he was a disciple of Anton Levay

Shrug at what you will,but some things I don't mess with or entertain..Demonic influence,spiritguides etc,get a wide berth from me...


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> He gained much notoriety during his lifetime, and was infamously dubbed "The Wickedest Man In the World."




I'm just curious, what out of those biographies would constitute him being dubbed the 'wickedest man in the world"?  From what I read, he didn't kill anyone, murder, rape or anything else like that. He wrote some books, had kinky sex and liked to shock and awe.  I personally wouldn't consider that 'wicked'.  In my opinion, Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahlmer are much more wicked than he was.


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## j_seph (Jan 8, 2009)

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## Big10point (Jan 8, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> I'm just curious, what out of those biographies would constitute him being dubbed the 'wickedest man in the world"?  From what I read, he didn't kill anyone, murder, rape or anything else like that. He wrote some books, had kinky sex and liked to shock and awe.  I personally wouldn't consider that 'wicked'.  In my opinion, Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahlmer are much more wicked than he was.



i didnt claim him as that... but he did call himself, "the great beast"...   hmmm... i wonder why?  

doesnt matter what i think anyway... but it does matter what God thinks. God calls men who dont accept Jesus, as being wicked. so in God's eyes, he was wicked.... unless he repented of course and accepted Christ.  my opinion means nothing, God's opinion is everything.


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## jawja_peach (Jan 8, 2009)

*What about today's music??*



Big10point said:


> ignorance??  thats what a Christian should be calling another person...
> 
> the lyrics of the rocker's songs says it all...
> 
> ...



Grrrr...sik'em boy sik'm!!! You are right in all the above. You have done your homework and I could never stand back and say anything about it other than if I hadn't seen that you have researched it, I would've researched it myself. I learned a long time ago, don't believe it just cause someone says it- even if that person is your 'Pastor', unless he can show it to you in the 'Word'. Not saying that this should be all swept under the rug or anything, but to keep beating this dead dog, ain't gonna kill it any worse. How bout take'n aim on some of these other pitbulls out there devouring our children right now as we speak. Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play??? Some people look at the Anti-Christ as a future being...Anti-Christ means NOT OF CHRIST....If you are not living for God, then your living for Satan. One or the other, black or white, cold or hot...not lukewarm as we know what is said about that...You can't keep one foot carnal and the other spiritual. Great work. Thanks...if anyone wants to check out some of these singers, give me a shout. Got two boys myself...very careful what they listen to...


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## earl (Jan 8, 2009)

BookHound... thanks. Ruger .. thanks i think.
Singer songwriters are few and far between. Maybe you should check who is writing the lyrics. 
I would be more leary of the numerous TV and radio preachers who are more interested in contributions than i would be of rockers whose influence is actually quite limited.
I am here to champion the minority here .
So ,is AC the only one or do you have more FACTS on the rest of ''most all hard rockers'' ?


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 8, 2009)

Big10point said:


> i didnt claim him as that... but he did call himself, "the great beast"...   hmmm... i wonder why?



And David Koresh thought he was Jesus... what's your point?


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## ronmac13 (Jan 9, 2009)

This thread makes me lol really hard.

Let me guess playing violent video games is going to make me a serial killer also?

You people who look at some goth kid and automatically assume they are a satanist probably believe this backwards music bull crap.

Musicians are going to sing about whats making money, plus when I listen to music i listen more to the instruments then what people are saying. And yes, I listen to music where you have to read the lyrics(and theres alot of times I dont agree with what they are signing about) to understand what they are saying.

Now I'm done with my rant, I'm off to listen to zeppelins greatest hits, forwards(BECAUSE THATS HOW IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED)


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## ronmac13 (Jan 9, 2009)

Big10point said:


> yes, i do believe that if a singer writes a song, it comes from their heart and whatever is in these lyrics in in their heart.  they have no idea what "lyrics" or songs will get them rich...



But guess what most songwriters write the song to be played one way, the way you hear it when you buy the tape/cd/record or whatever, they didnt mean for you to buy it and listen to it backwards.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 9, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play???



Yeah....  you probably hear "One Day At Time, Sweet Jesus"   

Reminds me of a song by Kid Rock.  "I'm Wrong, But You Ain't Right"

one of the best lines of the song (edited for this forum  )

You can save the environment with all your wit
But can you save your children from a world of bull poo?
You look at me with a loss for love
But if you took me out would your kids still do drugs
You wanna point your finger at the unclear
You wanna point your finger at the unclear
You wanna point your finger at the unclear
You outta point your finger in the mirror


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 9, 2009)

There is infinitely more evil via deception and greed alive and well in the church than there is in rock song written in the 70's.

Should we start burning our CD's now, just as they wanted us to do our 33 1/3's back then as well?


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 9, 2009)

scooter1 said:


> There is infinitely more evil via deception and greed alive and well in the church than there is in rock song written in the 70's.
> 
> Should we start burning our CD's now, just as they wanted us to do our 33 1/3's back then as well?



I don't buy CD's anymore... I'd have to burn my iPod


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## Buano (Jan 9, 2009)

Fear & ignorance is necessary for religious zealots to recruit more of the same. Every religion was created by mankind & every religion claims to be "the" religion. Only the ignorant, of other religions & human history, could buy that sales pitch.

And, YES, I know this will Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- many off, but the truth often has that effect.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 9, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Grrrr...sik'em boy sik'm!!! You are right in all the above. You have done your homework and I could never stand back and say anything about it other than if I hadn't seen that you have researched it, I would've researched it myself. I learned a long time ago, don't believe it just cause someone says it- even if that person is your 'Pastor', unless he can show it to you in the 'Word'. Not saying that this should be all swept under the rug or anything, but to keep beating this dead dog, ain't gonna kill it any worse. How bout take'n aim on some of these other pitbulls out there devouring our children right now as we speak. Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play??? Some people look at the Anti-Christ as a future being...Anti-Christ means NOT OF CHRIST....If you are not living for God, then your living for Satan. One or the other, black or white, cold or hot...not lukewarm as we know what is said about that...You can't keep one foot carnal and the other spiritual. Great work. Thanks...if anyone wants to check out some of these singers, give me a shout. Got two boys myself...very careful what they listen to...[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Very well said!
> ...


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## Lead Poison (Jan 9, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> I'll face big dogs and run through the woods at night with no light and fear no snake(as long as I see it first)
> 
> I might not obey or always live right,but I try not to blaspheme...I sure don't challenge Satan...
> 
> ...



I agree.


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## Lead Poison (Jan 9, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Grrrr...sik'em boy sik'm!!! You are right in all the above. You have done your homework and I could never stand back and say anything about it other than if I hadn't seen that you have researched it, I would've researched it myself. I learned a long time ago, don't believe it just cause someone says it- even if that person is your 'Pastor', unless he can show it to you in the 'Word'. Not saying that this should be all swept under the rug or anything, but to keep beating this dead dog, ain't gonna kill it any worse. How bout take'n aim on some of these other pitbulls out there devouring our children right now as we speak. Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play??? Some people look at the Anti-Christ as a future being...Anti-Christ means NOT OF CHRIST....If you are not living for God, then your living for Satan. One or the other, black or white, cold or hot...not lukewarm as we know what is said about that...You can't keep one foot carnal and the other spiritual. Great work. Thanks...if anyone wants to check out some of these singers, give me a shout. Got two boys myself...very careful what they listen to...



AMEN!


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## Big10point (Jan 9, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> And David Koresh thought he was Jesus... what's your point?



my point is that ALL people are deemed wicked by God UNLESS they are washed by the blood of Jesus. No sin can be in the presence of the Lord and we are all full of sin.  thats the whole need for a Savior.  someone who can "cover" us, so that we appear to God as being righteous even tho we are not.  read the Bible, its really clear.  ALL people are evil and wicked in God's eyes and if they are NOT covered by the blood of Jesus they can not ever be in the presence of God. thats called justice.  would you invite an evil wicked man into your home to live with you?  no, you would not.. same with God... he's not gonna bring a sinner into His home ever.  but since God loved us, He created (He's the Creator...) a way for us to live with Him forever... and His name is Jesus....  glory to God.

if you are "washed in the Blood" then you are a child of God... if not, then you're a stinch in His nostrils...   read your Bible...  KJ 1611av that is...  are you washed in the blood, dd?


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## dawg2 (Jan 9, 2009)

Bush must be in on it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GE4yeW8tLE&feature=related


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## Big10point (Jan 9, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Grrrr...sik'em boy sik'm!!! You are right in all the above. You have done your homework and I could never stand back and say anything about it other than if I hadn't seen that you have researched it, I would've researched it myself. I learned a long time ago, don't believe it just cause someone says it- even if that person is your 'Pastor', unless he can show it to you in the 'Word'. Not saying that this should be all swept under the rug or anything, but to keep beating this dead dog, ain't gonna kill it any worse. How bout take'n aim on some of these other pitbulls out there devouring our children right now as we speak. Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play??? Some people look at the Anti-Christ as a future being...Anti-Christ means NOT OF CHRIST....If you are not living for God, then your living for Satan. One or the other, black or white, cold or hot...not lukewarm as we know what is said about that...You can't keep one foot carnal and the other spiritual. Great work. Thanks...if anyone wants to check out some of these singers, give me a shout. Got two boys myself...very careful what they listen to...



being a past metalhead, i know a little bit about that kind of music and the lyrics. i used to sing right along with the lyrics to songs that were promoting satan and bashing Jesus and was going to church at the same time (wasnt saved th...).  

I get no credit, it all goes to the Lord, He's the One that opened my eyes and brought me out of that evil stuff.  its amazing what getting on your knees and crying out to God will do for a person...


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## earl (Jan 9, 2009)

Just as I thought. Lots of bible thumping , but no facts. Why is it that when you ask zealots a direct question , they start telling you where you are going ?


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 9, 2009)

earl said:


> Just as I thought. Lots of bible thumping , but no facts. Why is it that when you ask zealots a direct question , they start telling you where you are going ?




What facts are you looking for?

Whats a zealot?


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## BookHound (Jan 9, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> What facts are you looking for?
> 
> Whats a zealot?




zealot = a fanatical partisan 

I think the facts “earl” is looking for are a little more than “I used to listen to that music so I know everything about it.  Trust me, it is all EVIL I tell ya!”


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## Big10point (Jan 9, 2009)

earl said:


> Just as I thought. Lots of bible thumping , but no facts. Why is it that when you ask zealots a direct question , they start telling you where you are going ?



the lyrics of songs gives us all of the proof that we need... just as the Word of Scripture gives us all the proof that we need to know God....  and if you're calling me a Bible thumper....  thank you. i'll take that as a compliment...


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## earl (Jan 9, 2009)

It would be redundant on my part to repost my previous post in reply. GOOD NITE IRENE


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## christianhunter (Jan 9, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Grrrr...sik'em boy sik'm!!! You are right in all the above. You have done your homework and I could never stand back and say anything about it other than if I hadn't seen that you have researched it, I would've researched it myself. I learned a long time ago, don't believe it just cause someone says it- even if that person is your 'Pastor', unless he can show it to you in the 'Word'. Not saying that this should be all swept under the rug or anything, but to keep beating this dead dog, ain't gonna kill it any worse. How bout take'n aim on some of these other pitbulls out there devouring our children right now as we speak. Like Marilyn Manson, and his followers. Gosh as Anti-Christ as he is in his normal singing, could you imagine what he has hidden when in back play??? Some people look at the Anti-Christ as a future being...Anti-Christ means NOT OF CHRIST....If you are not living for God, then your living for Satan. One or the other, black or white, cold or hot...not lukewarm as we know what is said about that...You can't keep one foot carnal and the other spiritual. Great work. Thanks...if anyone wants to check out some of these singers, give me a shout. Got two boys myself...very careful what they listen to...



I was really thinking of just what to say,as I used to love "Stairway to Heaven".I don't own the album now,but listen to it when I hear it.I think you have said what I wanted to say,better than I would have said it.


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## ryano (Jan 9, 2009)




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## jawja_peach (Jan 10, 2009)

*Bible thumpers...lol...*



earl said:


> Just as I thought. Lots of bible thumping , but no facts. Why is it that when you ask zealots a direct question , they start telling you where you are going ?




 I do know a few 'Bible Thumpers' that will get up in your face and tell you/preach to you 'Your gonna bust H*** wide open....' and you (in general) may be. But please do not put all of us 'Bible Thumpers' in the same category. I have a few friends that are non-believers, and I don't get in their face, I get on my knees in prayer.  I am not any ones judge, that's God's job. Now the Bible does say that we shall know a tree by the fruit that it bears, that a corrupt tree can not bring forth  good fruit. (not word for word) But how this tree is pruned and cut back is not my place. I leave that up to the Master Gardener. We all need to clean up what's in our own garden and at our own door step before we go looking for cobwebbs and rotten fruit at someone else's dwelling place. And clean up can go by so much faster with a song in your heart...Like 'What a friend we have in Jesus'....this is a great one to hum while your cleaning the "Dawg" Poo off your porch left by an _uninvited_ very rude guest....All are welcome that show respect, and not snide remarks to those they do not know . Have a Blessed Day...


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## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

*Bible thumpers*

Seems like the inability to answer a question with fact instead of quoting scripture , preaching mini sermons, and telling folks where they are going is running amuck again.  
I found the smiley thing !


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## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

Did you actually expect rational discussion, earl?  You may give some folks too much credit.  

The mindset is like the grossly obese preacher who will pontificate about the evil of me drinking a single beer yet he can’t keep his fat, stubby sausage fingers out of the donut box.  Good luck having an educated, rational discussion with that.


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*Notice which forum you are in...*



earl said:


> Seems like the inability to answer a question with fact instead of quoting scripture , preaching mini sermons, and telling folks where they are going is running amuck again.
> I found the smiley thing !



We do have a forum for fact based answers...perhaps you would like to pose your question here..

http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=88

As it is,you are posting in the *Spiritualandreligious* discussions forum.

Any response you receive will likely have some sort of *spiritual*implication or *Biblical*reference.

There is a difference in having a discussion and being argumentative....


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*for your perusal too*



BookHound said:


> Did you actually expect rational discussion, earl?  You may give some folks too much credit.
> 
> The mindset is like the grossly obese preacher who will pontificate about the evil of me drinking a single beer yet he can’t keep his fat, stubby sausage fingers out of the donut box.  Good luck having an educated, rational discussion with that.



Seems as if you like/need to see this too..

We do have a forum for fact based answers...perhaps you would like to pose your question here..

http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.ph...aysprune=&f=88

As it is,you are posting in the Spiritualandreligious discussions forum.

Any response you receive will likely have some sort of spiritualimplication or Biblicalreference.

There is a difference in having a discussion and being argumentative....


----------



## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*here are facts and actual lyrics*

This is from the first link another member posted here.The *facts* are these are actual lyrics.

Many put them in upfront,others make casual references.
The life they live is not indicative of being followers of God.

Occultist or actual "Devil worshipper" is merely semantics.

Here is the cut and paste from the arcticle. 

According to the book The Emerging Generation, the average teenager consumes 6 hours a day of rock music! It is their most devoted companion. It's their teacher, preacher, and guiding light! It dictates every detail of their life — from what they wear . . . to what they believe! Dr. Alan Bloom, in the The Closing of the American Mind, writes:

"It is their passion; nothing else excites them as it does; they cannot take seriously anything alien to music." (The Closing of the American Mind, p.68) 

Rock music is more than just music — IT'S THEIR LIFE! 

I want to take you on a tour through today's rock music. And if think rock is still — "I Want to Hold Your Hand" — you're in for the shock of your life!

Homosexual rock star, David Bowie in Rolling Stone magazine (Feb. 12, 1976), stunned the music world, when he stated:

"Rock has always been THE DEVIL'S MUSIC . . . I believe rock and roll is dangerous . . . I feel we're only heralding SOMETHING EVEN DARKER THAN OURSELVES." (Rolling Stone, Feb. 12, 1976)



And something dark and evil is slithering under the ROCK! 

In the song "The Conjuring" by Megadeth, the REAL mission of rock is clearly heard:

"I AM THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE
A SALESMAN, if you will . . .
Come join me in my INFERNAL DEPTHS . . .
I've got your soul!"
At the end of the song — they chant "OBEY"!
Rocker Frank Zappa (who discovered the awful truth December 4, 1993 the second he died) proudly boasted: 

"I'm the devil's advocate. We have our own worshippers who are called 'groupies.' Girls will give their bodies to musicians as you would give a sacrifice to a god." (Peters Brothers, What About Christian Rock, p. 17)
The super group, Metallica, in the song "Jump In the Fire", commands young people to jump into Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----: 
"Follow me now my child . . .
DO JUST AS I SAY . . .
Jump by your will or be taken by force
I'll get you either way . . .
So reach down grab my hand walk with me through the land
COME HOME WHERE YOU BELONG
So come on JUMP IN THE FIRE."
In the cover song, "The Prince", Metallica openly sing: 

"Angel from below . . .
I WISH TO SELL MY SOUL . . .
DEVIL TAKE MY SOUL
with diamonds you repay
I don't care for heaven 
so don't you look for me to cry
AND I WILL BURN IN Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
from the day I die."
Rock star, Marilyn Manson, proudly boasts: 

"Hopefully, I’ll be remembered as the person who brought an end to Christianity." (Spin, August 1996, p. 34)
Manson, an ordained "reverend" in the Church of Satan, mutilates himself on stage (1 Kings 18:28), rips-up the Holy Bible, and spews "blasphemies" against the Lord Jesus Christ. Manson’s T-Shirts declare, "KILL YOUR PARENTS" & "I ¤ SATAN". Manson claims his album Antichrist Superstar came via "supernatural-inspiration": 
"I heard this album as finished, I heard it in dreams . . . It was like the revelations of John the Baptist or something." (huH, Oct. 1996, p.34)
Manson’s "hope" for Antichrist Superstar,: 

"I think every time people listen to this new album maybe God will be destroyed in their heads. . ." (huH, Oct. 1996, p.37)
Manson’s "blasphemy" is not just an act. Manson readily admitts there's more to the show than meets the eye: 

I don’t know if anyone has really understood what we’re trying to do. This isn’t just about shock value . . . that’s just there to lure the people in. Once we’ve got ‘em we can give ‘em our MESSAGE. (Hit Parader, Oct. 1996, p.28)
Manson admits his childhood longing for Satan: 

My mom used to tell me when I was a kid, ‘If you curse at nighttime, the devil’s going to come to you when you’re sleeping.’ I used to get excited because I really wanted it to happen . . . I wanted it. I wanted it more than anything . . .(Rolling Stone, January, 23, 1997 p.52)
Twisted Sister sings, "Burn in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----": 

"Welcome to the abandoned land
COME ON IN CHILD, TAKE MY HAND
Here there's no work or play
Only one bill to pay
There's just five words to say 
As you go down, down, down
YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----!" 
Bon Jovi sings in "Homebound Train": 

"When I was just a boy
THE DEVIL TOOK MY HAND
Took me from my home
He made me a man . . .
I'm going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN
On the homebound train."
In Smash Hits magazine, Bon Jovi says: 
" . . . I'd kill my mother for rock and roll. I WOULD SELL MY SOUL."

So would Tommy Sullivan of New Jersey — AND TOMMY DID! 
Tommy, your typical, all-American, fourteen-year-old, one Saturday night, slit his own mother's throat, and then gouged her eyes out. Tommy then slashed his wrists and cut his throat from ear-to-ear, with an intensity that nearly decapitated him. Mayor Fran Slayton said, "There's just something that's bothering me about this situation. It bothers me that a good kid like that can go in two weeks." Tommy's father said, all week his son had been singing a ROCK SONG, "about blood and killing your mother." 

Dr. Paul King, medical director of the adolescent program at Charter Lakeside Hospital, in Memphis Tennessee, says more than 80 percent of his patients are there because of rock music. He says, "the lyrics become a philosophy of life, a RELIGION." 

One of the most popular groups in rock history is Slayer. Slayer sing of themselves, as: "Warriors from the gates of Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- . . .
In lord Satan we trust." Slayer's albums sell in the millions! And song after song — IS PRAISE TO SATAN! Their song "Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- Awaits" says: 

"Jesus knows your soul cannot be saved
CRUCIFY THE SO CALLED LORD
He soon shall fall to me
Your souls are Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
Your God has fell to slave for me eternally
Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- awaits." 
The beginning of their song "Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- Awaits" contains an obvious backwards message. When played forward, nothing but garbled noise is heard, but when played backwards — you hear the real message — "JOIN US, JOIN US, JOIN US" — over and over! 



Does this music effect young people? 

A Slayer fan writes in Spin magazine (May 1989): 
"I hate your God, Jesus Christ. SATAN IS MY LORD. I sacrifice animals for him. My god is Slayer. Its THE WORDS of their music I BELIEVE IN." 
The group Acheron, has an album titled, "The Rites of the Black Mass". On the album Peter Gilmore, of the Church of Satan, actually reads the rites of a Black Mass, as the group Acheron, in hellish growls, sings such lyrics as: 

"Glory to thee almighty Satan . . .
We praise thee, we bless thee,
WE ADORE THEE . . .
THOU ART LORD, THOU ALONE,
OH MIGHTY SATAN."
The group Manowar, sings in "The Bridge of Death": 

"Dark Lord, I summon thee
Demanding the sacred right to burn in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- . . .
Take My lustful soul
Drink my blood as I drink yours . . .
LUCIFER IS KING
PRAISE SATAN!"
The group Morbid Angel, sings in "Vengeance in Mine": 

"Mote it be
Satan's sword I have become . . .
I burn with hate
TO RID THE WORLD OF THE NAZARENE!"
And to commit the ultimate blasphemy — they sing in the song "Blasphemy": 
"Chant the blasphemy
Mockery of the Messiah
WE CURSE THE HOLY GHOST . . .
Blaspheme the Ghost
BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY GHOST."
Trey Azagthoh of Morbid Angel claims to be a REAL vampire, and while playing onstage — he actually bites himself and then drinks his own blood! 
The song "Stairway to Heaven" by the group Led Zeppelin is the most popular song in rock history. One line of the song, says, "you know sometimes words have TWO MEANINGS." They should know — the song is drenched in satanic backmasking! One part when played forward, says: "Yes, their are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on." But when played backwards, you clearly hear: "IT'S MY SWEET SATAN . . . Oh I will sing because I live with Satan." This is the number one song in rock history! Just a coincidence — not hardly! Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is a devout follower of satanist, Aliester Crowley. One of Crowley's satanic teachings, learn to cast unsuspecting spells on people by saying them backwards! Zeppelin's song "Houses of the Holy", they sing, "Let the music be YOUR MASTER/ Will you heed the master's call/ Oh, Satan . . ." 

One of the top songs of the 70's was "Hotel California" by the Eagles. Most people have no idea the song refers to the Church of Satan, which happens to be located in a converted HOTEL on CALIFORNIA street! On the inside of the album cover, looking down on the festivities, is Anton Lavey, the founder of the Church of Satan and author of the Satanic Bible! People say, the Eagles aren't serious, they're just selling records. That's what you think! The Eagles manager, Larry Salter, admitted in the Waco Tribune-Herald, (Feb. 28, 1982) that the Eagles were involved with the Church of Satan! Not surprisingly, one of the Eagles's songs is titled "Have A Good Day in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----." 

The group Kiss leaped on stage as rock'n roll demons — puking blood, breathing fire and screaming — "God of rock'n roll, we'll steal your virgin soul." 

In their song "God of Thunder", they command young people to kneel before Satan: 

"I'm lord of the wasteland, a modern day man of steel
I gather darkness to please me
and I COMMAND YOU TO KNEEL
Before, The God of thunder, the god of rock'n roll
I'LL STEAL YOUR VIRGIN SOUL!"
Female rocker, Kat sings in the Simon-Says parody called, "Satan Says": 

"Hi, boys and girls!
We're going to play a game called Satan says! . . .
We're going to do everything that Satan says, Right? 
. . . Satan says, Follow me!
SATAN SAYS, GO TO Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----!"
The group Bow Wow Wow, in their song "Prince of Darkness", openly give an invitation to receive Satan, as they sing: 

"So open the door and LET SATAN IN, The Prince of Darkness."
The group Sad Iron, proudly sing their praise to the devil: 

"We all praise the devil
He is so fine
We all praise the devil
Till the day we'll die!"
The group W.A.S.P., who proudly admit W.A.S.P. stands for We Are Sex Perverts, sing in "Sleeping in the Fire": 

"Taste the LOVE,
THE LUCIFER'S MAGIC
That makes you numb
You feel what it does and you're drunk on love
YOU'RE SLEEPING IN THE FIRE!"
During their concerts, WASP would throw hunks of raw meat out in the audience and young people in a demonic frenzy, would actually eat the raw meat like a wild animal! On the back of their album reads: 
"The gods you worship are steel,
AT THE ALTAR OF ROCK AND ROLL YOU KNEEL."
Motley Crue sings in "Wild Side": 

"I carry my crucifix, under my deathlist
Forward my mail to me in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- . . .
OUR FATHER, WHO AIN'T IN HEAVEN
Be thy name on the wild side." 
The group Black Sabbath have actually given invitations during their concerts for young people to receive Satan. One of their albums, is truthfully titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock'n Roll". Their song N.I.B. (Nativity In Black) is one of the most openly satanic songs ever recorded. It is a love-song from Lucifer, in which Lucifer invites the listener to "please take my hand", the lyrics: 

"Some people say MY LOVE cannot be true
Please believe me, MY LOVE, and I'll show you
I will give you those things you thought unreal . . .
YOUR LOVE FOR ME has just got to be real . . .
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am 
MY NAME IS LUCIFER, PLEASE TAKE MY HAND!"
One of the most popular groups in rock is AC/DC. In the song, "Hells Bells", they sing: 

"I got my bell
I'm gonna take you to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
I'm gonna get ya
SATAN GET YA"
Their song "Highway to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----" rhey sing: 
"Ain't nothing I would rather do
GOIN' DOWN, PARTY TIME
My friends are gonna be there too . . .
Hey Satan, paid my dues . . .
I'm on the way to the promised land
I'm on the HIGHWAY TO Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----."
The satanist, Richard Ramirez, known as the "Night Stalker", who terrorized California, claims AC/DC's song "Night Prowler" compelled him to murder and sacrifice at least 14 people to Satan! 

The group Suicidal Tendencies, whose songs glorify suicide and have been linked to teen suicides, reveal a frightening truth in the song "Possessed": 

"I'M A PRISONER OF A DEMON . . .
It stays with me wherever I go
I can't break away from its hold
This must be my punishment
FOR SELLING MY SOUL!" 
The group Unleashed, in the song "Crush the Skull", blatantly sing of their hatred of Jesus Christ: 

"I gaze into his glassy eyes
And pluck him by the beard
I uplift a broadaxe
And split open HIS WORM EATEN SKULL
Crush the skull — Sacrifice
Crush the skull — DIE CHRIST!" 
Where did they get such disgusting lyrics? Straight out of the Satanic Bible — Book of Satan 1:10! 
Pink Floyd sings, in the song "Sheep", 

"The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want . . .
With bright knives he RELEASETH MY SOUL
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places . . .
For lo, he hath great power and GREAT HUNGER."
Their song, "Lucifer Sam", they sing: 
"LUCIFER Sam . . . Always sitting by your side
Always by your side." 
The group Possessed, in the suicide song, "No Will To Live" sing: "Drink the blood from my chalice
Come to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and my palace . . .
Take you to the evil land . . .
You can only live by death
WORSHIP SATAN WITH THE REST!" In their song "Tribulation", they proclaim their love for Satan as they sing: 

"IN LOVE WITH SATAN."
The song, "The Oath" by Mercyful Fate, is the actual oath a satanist takes during a Black Mass ritual! some of the lyrics: 

"I DENY JESUS CHRIST, THE DECEIVER
And I abjure the Christian faith
Holding in contempt all of it's works . . .
In this world I swear to give my full allegiance, to it's lawful master
TO WORSHIP HIM, OUR LORD SATAN, AND NO OTHER!" 
The song "Sympathy for the Devil" by the Rolling Stones, is the official anthem for the Church of Satan. In it, Lucifer speaks in the first person and asks sympathy for all who meet him. Lead singer, Mick Jagger claims that Anton Lavey, the founder of the Church of Satan and author of the Satanic Bible, help inspire their music! Their album titled, "Their Satanic Majesties Request", leaves no doubt to their allegiance!

The group Venom reveal the real reason for their music, as they sing: 

"We're not here to entertain you . . .
I PREACH THE WAYS OF SATAN
Answer to his calls!" 
Their song "Possessed", they sing: 
"I am possessed by all that is evil
The death of your God, I demand . . . AND SIT AT LORD SATAN'S LEFT HAND!"
These are some of the most popular groups in the world! And these are not isolated cases! These are just a drop in the bucket! This is dangerous and serious satanic worship — and rock music is filled with it! 



When you consider, the average young person ingests 6 hours a day of this 


What do you think this music is doing? 

According to the book, Satanism in America, which is endorsed by the National Criminal Justice Task Force on Occult Related Ritualistic Crimes, hard-core Satanism is, "the fastest-growing subculture among America's TEENS." 

Studies taken by the Georgia Police Academy revealed — 90% of those involved in satanism are TEENAGERS! 

Television personality, Geraldo Rivera, who explored the terrifying rise of Satanism said, "It exists AND IT'S FLOURISHING. IT IS TEENAGERS who are most likely to fall under the spell of satanism."

How serious are they? At the 1992 MTV Awards, the group Red Hot Chili Peppers, upon receiving their award and giving thanks, said: 
"FIRST OF ALL we want to thank Satan . . ."
These groups know perfectly well who they're serving and they are totally dedicated to their god! In Hit Parader magazine, Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden, says: 

"We can play with CONVICTION every night, because we TOTALLY BELIEVE in the music we're performing."
Like Iron Maiden's, song "The Number of the Beast", in which they direct young people to take the Mark of the Beast: 
"666 the Number of the Beast
666 THE ONE FOR YOU AND ME!"
The group Deicide, whose name means "death of God", sing of their devotion in the song "In Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- I Burn": 

"In Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- I burn, no questions remain
In Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- I burn for Satan."
Their song, "Oblivious To Evil" describes a satanic human sacrifice. It begins with an invitation to "join us&q a p: 
"Join us . . .
Sacrifice of the unborn child
Enter the kingdom of darkness
Sodomized for the ritual . . .
Infernal majesty, take this dead offering."
Deicide Vocalist Glen Benton, displaying his complete devotion to Satan, has an upside down cross actually branded into his forehead! 
The group Coven, sings in "Burn the Cross": 

"Son of God repent your sins
And pledge your soul to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
Pray that Satan will forgive
Once your God has failed . . .
YOUR GOD IS DEAD and now you die 
SATAN RULES AT LAST!"
To show their burning hatred of Jesus Christ, and blaspheme His death on the cross, they sing "Christsycle": 
"If you're looking for a Saviour
Then I've got the trick
Christsycle 
SALVATION ON A STICK."
The popular group, Danzig in their song, "Snakes of Christ", declare their hatred for Jesus Christ, as they sing: 

"SERPENT JESUS, SNAKES OF CHRIST
Gonna build you a world of lies."
Inside the album is Glenn Danzig, wearing the satanic upside-down cross, above him is proudly quoted, John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." One of their logos is a demon strangling Jesus Christ with blood gushing from His eyes! Johnny Cash, has included on his latest album — a song written by satanist Glenn Danzig


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*read these lyrics*

http://darklyrics.com/lyrics/slayer/hellawaits.html#1


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 10, 2009)

Nice post there matthewsman, The links were provided by big10point in the beggining of this thread. But I guess it wasn't the "facts" they were looking for.

Much easier to just call names aand speak in genralities

I guess I have seen enough of this thread, Good night, I'm done.


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*here's the video*

The backmasking(garbled language) is intenentional..It says " Join us,Join us"

Quoting the Lords prayer backwards and upside down crosses and such are Satanic rituals and symbols.It is common to hide messages like that backwards in songs,if the forward message isn't distasteful enough.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMEf7oF0iS0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMEf7oF0iS0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*Notice the names associated with this fellow*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Anger

Just the facts here...


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## jawja_peach (Jan 10, 2009)

Very well said!

Welcome to the forum Peach![/QUOTE]

 Thank you! It's nice to be here. I really like reading other people's opinions of things. But we must ALL remember that they are just "Opinions". Unless specified an actual "Quote" or "Fact". I have been reading and 'listening' for a while now, but finally decided to jump in. Thanks again, have a great weekend!


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## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> Seems as if you like/need to see this too..
> 
> We do have a forum for fact based answers...perhaps you would like to pose your question here..
> 
> ...




Your link is broken.

Who is being argumentative?  People make stupid comments without offering proof.  Other people question what the proof is and the response completely lacks fact.


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

http://redcat.org/season/0809/fv/anger.php

Read the third paragraph from the bottom...It tells of his association with Mick Jagger of the stones and him influencing Mick into writing "Sympathy for the Devil"

If you are so inclined you can do a "youtube search and some of his films are there including the one that Mick did the "Moog" soundtract too...He's credited in it.

I won't fool around with this anymore because it's starting to bore me...

But if a person wants to key various things into any search engine,it is well documented through various non"Bible" thumping sourcesThe influence of the occult,Satanism, and mind altering hallucinigenics in rock music from the 60's on...From "innocent" enough groups like the Monkees and beatles to the present.

Look at AC/DC and the occult for instance....Maybe google "he**s bells" and lyrics...

Unless Helen Kellar is searching it for you,you will find it....


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## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> http://darklyrics.com/lyrics/slayer/hellawaits.html#1



No doubt about Slayer and other groups like them singing about Satan, demons, etc.  The original post was about satanic messages in Stairway to Heaven when played backwards and I'm just not buying that.  As you and others have pointed out there are other artists who aren't exactly trying to hide messages in their music.

I think people playing Stairway backwards are hearing what they want to hear and nothing more.  People calling Led Zeppelin Satan worshipers (or at least suggesting they are anti-Jesus, anti-God, pro-Satan) have failed to provide anything I think could remotely be called proof.  Those are the facts I'm looking for.   

Oh, and just because lyrics mention Satan, demons, etc. they don't necessarily mean the band is making a statement about their religious beliefs.  That is hard for many people to understand I suppose.  For example, go read the lyrics to Disciple by Slayer if you really want your head to explode.  It is really an indictment of man’s inhumanity and hatred towards each other thanks to God giving us freewill.  Of course, it’s hard to see that when all you hear is “God hates us all!” in the chorus.  Kerry King who writes a lot of Slayer’s more “satanic” lyrics isn’t a Satan worshiper at all.  He is agnostic and is using questionable (“shock factor”) lyrics to point out what he thinks is silly in faith-base organized religion.  

Yeah, I’d worry more about kids listening to that than I’d worry about them possibly spinning their Zeppelin CD backwards (like that’s even possible LOL).  I was merely trying to keep focus on the original post.

Take care.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 10, 2009)

Somehow or another I don't think Slayer, Venom, Possessed, etc is everyday rock and roll and that has very little to do with "Stairway to Heaven."   

Some of the items and lyrics  in post #76 are taken grossly out of context and contain quite a bit of inaccurate info.  

*"One of the most popular groups in rock history is Slayer."   *LOL - that alone is enough to discredit anything else the author says. 

*How serious are they? At the 1992 MTV Awards, the group Red Hot Chili Peppers, upon receiving their award and giving thanks, said:
"FIRST OF ALL we want to thank Satan . . ."* 

It's called "Sarcasm" but apparently it went over many folks heads.  Bad Taste?  Certainly; however, it's hardly proof someone is into "devil worship."

*The group Black Sabbath have actually given invitations during their concerts for young people to receive Satan. One of their albums, is truthfully titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock'n Roll". Their song N.I.B. (Nativity In Black) is one of the most openly satanic songs ever recorded. It is a love-song from Lucifer, in which Lucifer invites the listener to "please take my hand",*

An absolute load of crap...  That sounds about like the people that came to my church in the 80s that told me that Ozzy Osbourne killed babies before his concert and drank their blood for power.   I kid you not, they really said that to us.  

FWIW - lyricist Geezer Butler (who wrote N.I.B) clarifies that "the song was about the devil falling in love and totally changing becoming a good person."    I'm inclined to believe the person that actually wrote the song.


I could go on, but you probably wouldn't care.


----------



## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*her's a link to a sticky in that section for you...*



BookHound said:


> Your link is broken.
> 
> Who is being argumentative?  People make stupid comments without offering proof.  Other people question what the proof is and the response completely lacks fact.



Maybe you can find it from there..if not maybe others of us "stupid" people can direct you...

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=196163

the proof is here..repeatedly,from non-Bible thumping sources..

I guess fact has a different meaning to you if it doesn't agree with you...

In just the links I've quaoted and provided..

Fact....Mick Jagger associated with a homosexual occultist/slash devil worshipper.
Fact.... Mick Jagger had Homosexual affairs.
fact....Mick Jagger wrote the sound tract for the man's
movie and "Sympathy for theDevil" at the man's urging.

Fact...He corraborated with a disciple of Anton LeVay's and was payed and influenced by him to produce popular music still enjoyed today.


Just like the Bible,some rock music has  underlying themes and allegorical references that some embrace and others deny.....


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

Here is a fun challenge for the Google crowd.  Read the lyrics to this song and tell me who you think sang it...


Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.




Okay, I'll tell you to save you the time.  BLACK SABBATH wrote and sang this pro-God, pro-salavation song!


----------



## ryano (Jan 10, 2009)




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## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> Maybe you can find it from there..if not maybe others of us "stupid" people can direct you...



I never called anyone stupid.  Reading is FUNDAMENTAL.  I said some people had made STUPID COMMENTS.


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> Just like the Bible,some rock music has  underlying themes and allegorical references that some embrace and others deny.....



I very much agree with you on this.  Does this make Mick a Satan worshiper though?

Now, can we get back to Led Zeppelin?


----------



## Buzz (Jan 10, 2009)

BookHound said:


> Here is a fun challenge for the Google crowd.  Read the lyrics to this song and tell me who you think sang it...
> 
> 
> Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
> ...




After Forever, is one of my favorite Sabbath Tunes.


----------



## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*load of crap?*

you say "load of crap" but the mental image is a 
wagon full of excrement.I think the reality is that the value of the thoughts of the people on this board is a little more than,or more appealing than that.

If it's not to you,if I were you,I wouldn't bother replying. 


OK..You're right.......There has never been the influence of any illegal drug in rock music,nor has Led Zep ever been anything other than Christlike in their rock n roll witness

It's all for shock value and none of them really believe in the lifestyle they pursue..

They edify God and long to witness to the groupy girls they take backstage.


Be serious.Back masking in some songs is as intentional as subliminal messages in old movie trailers..In  it's put there obviously and purposefully and others maybe considered coincidental to you and a work of the "Devil" to others.

By all means it's not a load of crap.

I enjoy many genres of music myself.I don't deceive myself into thinking that it is pleasing to God though.





Buzz said:


> Somehow or another I don't think Slayer, Venom, Possessed, etc is everyday rock and roll and that has very little to do with "Stairway to Heaven."
> 
> Some of the items and lyrics  in post #76 are taken grossly out of context and contain quite a bit of inaccurate info.
> 
> ...


----------



## Buzz (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> you say "load of crap" but the mental image is a
> wagon full of excrement.I think the reality is that the value of the thoughts of the people on this board is a little more than,or more appealing than that.
> 
> If it's not to you,if I were you,I wouldn't bother replying.
> ...



If that's the path you are taking, then you have totally changed the subject.    I don't disagree with you at all on their testimony or their love for sex / drugs / and rock & roll; however, that's not what this thread is about.



matthewsman said:


> Be serious.Back masking in some songs is as intentional as subliminal messages in old movie trailers..In  it's put there obviously and purposefully and others maybe considered coincidental to you and a work of the "Devil" to others.
> 
> By all means it's not a load of crap.



I think in most cases, it's a load - but certainly not all.   I think in most cases it's about the power of suggestion more than anything else.

The "load of crap" reference was to this (from your post) - "The group Black Sabbath have actually given invitations during their concerts for young people to receive Satan. One of their albums, is truthfully titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock'n Roll". Their song N.I.B. (Nativity In Black) is one of the most openly satanic songs ever recorded. It is a love-song from Lucifer, in which Lucifer invites the listener to "please take my hand"


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

MATTHEWSMAN... Thanks for providing your backup . The original poster on this thread did not provide any facts for his comments. While I dont agree with all your links ,at least you made an effort. Just in case you are not aware of it ,wikapedia is not always acurate . It is the current popular meaning and is subject to change as different people put their spin on it. All that being said, why would you direct me to another forum ? The statement I took exception to was ''most all hard rockers'' .Since I am sure there is no biblical reference to rockers, why do you feel I was out of line asking for the facts. Sorry if it offends ,but I learned long ago not to believe hear say. If I make an outlandish statement , I expect to get called on it.


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## pfharris1965 (Jan 10, 2009)

*...*

Does anyone from either side of the "issues" presented in this thread really and truly believe that listening to certain music will condemn someone to go to hades for eternity?

I mean if that is the belief here then I am shocked...I see WAY more in everyday living from the people that I encounter that will provide much faster results for that trip to hades...

Just remember, John 3:16 brothers and sisters...first and foremost I am making certain that my Salvation is solid before I will resort to judging others because of a taste in music of all things...

I mean I grew up hearing that KISS stood for Kings in Satan's Service and that Judas Priest was evil......that is a very complex prosect because I always just liked their tunes man...


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 10, 2009)

pfharris1965 said:


> Does anyone from either side of the "issues" presented in this thread really and truly believe that listening to certain music will condemn someone to go to hades for eternity?
> 
> I mean if that is the belief here then I am shocked...I see WAY more in everyday living from the people that I encounter that will provide much faster results for that trip to hades...
> 
> ...




Sometimes fearmongering is resorted to when certain sects can't effectively get God's message out to begin with.

Just think, if nothing from the Religious right had ever been said about the Harry Potter books they probably would have been a flop and never would have made it to the big screen.

Religious fanatics did more free advertising and curiosity building hype for that book than the publishing company ever could have.


----------



## pfharris1965 (Jan 10, 2009)

*...*



scooter1 said:


> Sometimes fearmongering is resorted to when certain sects can't effectively get God's message out to begin with.


 
Agreed completely......it has been going on since the beginning of time...if we cannot justify a blanket condemnation then let's try and make them all afraid... 



scooter1 said:


> Just think, if nothing from the Religious right had ever been said about the Harry Potter books they probably would have been a flop and never would have made it to the big screen.
> 
> Religious fanatics did more free advertising and curiosity building hype for that book than the publishing company ever could have.


 
A substantial amount of money was spent on marketing these books...great literary works IMHO...and yes the fanatics that condemned them did contribute to the hype but I seriously doubt they would have been a flop without the "assistance" of the fanatics...

The fanatics simply added a level of interest and fascination that I am sure sent Rowling laughing all the way to the bank...

I am sorry but I just do not buy into the alleged Satanic influence of music and literary works...I personally believe in God and am saved and I make my own choices out of free will as to what I want to listen to or read...anyone that does not and simply accepts a blanket statement of condemnation is a mere lemming...

BTW...you ain't called in a while...I promise not to tell you the same story more than once if you do...


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## jawja_peach (Jan 10, 2009)

Hey y'all go and watch this and see if you want to play it backwards, because it was to freaky fowards for me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JFyIaybXbU


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## pfharris1965 (Jan 10, 2009)

*...*



jawja_peach said:


> Hey y'all go and watch this and see if you want to play it backwards, because it was to freaky fowards for me..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JFyIaybXbU


 
Nice form with the deletion and repost...for positioning... 

I think Marilyn Manson rocks...but then I also think Santa rocks...


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## jawja_peach (Jan 10, 2009)

pfharris1965 said:


> Nice form with the deletion and repost...for positioning...
> 
> I think Marilyn Manson rocks...but then I also think Santa rocks...



 you're welcome..


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## Lead Poison (Jan 10, 2009)

pfharris1965 said:


> Nice form with the deletion and repost...for positioning...
> 
> I think Marilyn Manson rocks...but then I also think Santa rocks...



I would NEVER want my kids to listen too, dress like, look like, act, or talk like Marilyn Manson. He is such a terrible model and/or example for our kids. Obviously, I don't thank Marilyn Manson rocks.


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## Buzz (Jan 10, 2009)

Some of you might like the Johnny Cash version of the Depeche Mode song better than the Marilyn Manson version.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jQcNiD0Z3MU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jQcNiD0Z3MU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## pfharris1965 (Jan 10, 2009)

*...*



Lead Poison said:


> I would NEVER want my kids to listen too, dress like, look like, act, or talk like Marilyn Manson. He is such a terrible model and/or example for our kids. Obviously, I don't thank Marilyn Manson rocks.


 
Who said anything about kids?!?   As for kids, I prolly would not intentionally expose mine to Marilyn Manson as well as some of the self proclaimed "men of God" I have encountered in my day...all in the perspective I suppose...

By the same token I am glad you have your convictions and made your choice just as I have done......God I love the ability and freedom to make a choice......

Bottom line is, whilst we debate such topics as back masking and all the religously generated negative hype, how many people have starved to death in America alone?


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## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Johnny Cash did an awesome rendition of Nine Inch Nails HURTon his American album. I have nt played it backwards, now I m scared to. A bluegrass group redid a bunch of Modest Mouse that is great. I think the name of the album is Picking On Modest Mouse ,cant recall the name of the group. It is amazing what my kids turn me on to .


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## cujo (Jan 10, 2009)

This is so very interesting. I would appreciate it if someone who is in the know would enlighten me. Lets say I like the tune "Stairway To Heaven", it makes me pat my foot. Will that cause me to go to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----

I hope your mom and dad never listened to any Jerry Lee Lewis.


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## cujo (Jan 10, 2009)

TIME OUT!!!

Are we serious here? 
We are forbidden to use the word Hail (Alabama accent)
That's just stupid in a spiritual forum.


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## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> MATTHEWSMAN... Thanks for providing your backup . The original poster on this thread did not provide any facts for his comments. While I dont agree with all your links ,at least you made an effort. Just in case you are not aware of it ,wikapedia is not always acurate . It is the current popular meaning and is subject to change as different people put their spin on it. All that being said, why would you direct me to another forum ? The statement I took exception to was ''most all hard rockers'' .Since I am sure there is no biblical reference to rockers, why do you feel I was out of line asking for the facts. Sorry if it offends ,but I learned long ago not to believe hear say. If I make an outlandish statement , I expect to get called on it.





you said, "there's no Biblical reference for rockers...."... who do you think the Bible was written for? just Christians...  the Bible was written for everyone to find their way to God thru Christ.  saying there's no Biblical reference to rockers is like saying its ok to surf porn on the internet b/c God failed to mention that in the Bible.

I said "MOST" all hard rcokers... i didnt say "All"...  but most of those people do sell their souls for rock... they put their faith in "rock" instead of The Rock. but thats no different than the people who sell their souls for other things... sin mainly.

people are either "for" Christ or they are against Him.  If someone's in the middle, they are still "lukewarm", which is also not accepted by Christ..

Revelation 3:16
So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

we are not to judge the lost (rockers or anyone else) but to try and bring them to repentance and to the Lord's saving grace...  here's your Bible references....  but they're not for rockers...  

1 Corinthians 7:16
How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.

as you can see here, the Bible says that men can save men... not in the sense that Jesus saves.  men can save men by bringing them to the Truth of Jesus.  showing them the Bible, telling them about their need for a Savior, etc... once they do this, if the person truly repents and turns to Christ, they will be saved (thru Christ and faith alone)..

these hard rockers, as well as everyone else, needs to be saved.... whether stairway is satanic or not, these guys need to be brought to the Lord and repent.  instead of dedicating their lives to rnr, they need to dedicate their lives to Christ...

isnt it funny (not in a comical sense...)? that John Lennon made a comment that the Beatles were more famous then Jesus Christ... soon afterward Lennon was dead...  coincidental? i dont think so...  God cannot be mocked.

and is it just coincidence that the age of rockers when they die (on avg.) is about half of non-rockers...?  

http://www.av1611.org/rockdead.html

souls are worth way too much to give them to satan for any reason... especially rnroll.


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## letsgohuntin (Jan 10, 2009)

BookHound said:


> The original post was about satanic messages in Stairway to Heaven when played backwards and _I'm just not buying that_.
> 
> I think people playing Stairway backwards are _hearing what they want to hear _and nothing more.



So are you saying that you can not actually hear the messages when the song is played backwards?  

If one does not believe the hidden messages are satanic, what explanation could be given for their appearance in a song played backwards?


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## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

cujo said:


> This is so very interesting. I would appreciate it if someone who is in the know would enlighten me. Lets say I like the tune "Stairway To Heaven", it makes me pat my foot. Will that cause me to go to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----
> 
> I hope your mom and dad never listened to any Jerry Lee Lewis.



personally, i dont think listening to any rock song, or watching Friday the 13th (or all 76 of them...) will send anyone to helll... it just gets people on the wrong path, which is broad. few will find the Lord thru rock n roll.
although Dave Mustaine who played with Metallica and later founded Megadeth is now saying that he is a Christian...  i pray he is. when i was in darkness, he was my favorite musician for a long time...  

Matthew 7:13
 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it...


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## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Dude ,you are too much ! How many of your ex metalhead friends have you brought to church ,much less to god. Any one who cant remember the entire line of John Lennon s infamous statement and the reason for it must have gotten lost in the 60 s. Why do rockers die young ? Drugs had more to do with that than god . If you are not judging rnr and rockers , Iwould hate to hear what you really think. Again with the ''most'', at least MM gave some specifics that were pertinant . Considering that there are about 50 years worth of rockers out there ,I dont see the epidemic that you do. If you dont mind me asking, what faith do you belong to. I willl understand if you dont want to say.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

I think they are satanic forwards or backwards, especially people like Marilyn Manson, he is a priest in the church of Satan, go on YouTube and watch his interview with Bill O'Riely......people who think a maggot like that ''rocks'' I wonder about....I don't think their elevator goes to the top floor...


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## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

If rock is so terrible ,why are there christian singers who use rock music as the basis of their music ? Doesnt god say to shun all appearance of evil ? I m not as young as I used to be ,but I still cant understand half the words when they are played forward. Have any of you played them backwards to make sure there isnt anything there ?


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## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> If rock is so terrible ,why are there christian singers who use rock music as the basis of their music ? Doesnt god say to shun all appearance of evil ? I m not as young as I used to be ,but I still cant understand half the words when they are played forward. Have any of you played them backwards to make sure there isnt anything there ?



 I don't like them either....they can say its christian just like Benny Hinn says he is a preacher....I don't buy into either..


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## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> Dude ,you are too much ! How many of your ex metalhead friends have you brought to church ,much less to god. Any one who cant remember the entire line of John Lennon s infamous statement and the reason for it must have gotten lost in the 60 s. Why do rockers die young ? Drugs had more to do with that than god . If you are not judging rnr and rockers , Iwould hate to hear what you really think. Again with the ''most'', at least MM gave some specifics that were pertinant . Considering that there are about 50 years worth of rockers out there ,I dont see the epidemic that you do. If you dont mind me asking, what faith do you belong to. I willl understand if you dont want to say.



i've mentioned to all of them but few want to hear it... people dont want light they want darkness...

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...

i have a unbelieving metal head friend that has migraines... so i went and bought him a dvd by Dr. Don Colbert (who gives Biblical cures for ailments) and my friend dropped the dvd off in my mailbox... he wouldnt even watch it because it was biblically based...

its funny (like ) that MM gave "pertinent specifics" and i give you Scriptures... and i am not giving pertinent specifics...

i consider myself a Bible Christian... i dont adhere to any specific denomination, although my beliefs are close to old school Baptists...

the epidemic that exists are the millions of kids listening to satanic lyrics by the MM's, Sabbath, Nails, Ozzy and the million other rockers that are polluting the brains of these kids...


----------



## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*actually*



Big10point said:


> its funny (like ) that MM gave "pertinent specifics" and i give you Scriptures... and i am not giving pertinent specifics...



Actually it's even funnier because what I posted came off the links that you listed when you were accused of not giving facts....

Guys,click the rest of his links there is a ton of info there...


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## matthewsman (Jan 10, 2009)

*for what it is worth*

I don't think a person will suffer eternal distruction for listening to non-spiritual music,no matter what the genre..I listen to all types myself.I do think that for some people it is different and is an opening to other things,much like drugs or other excesses...

Depends on what triggers a person...


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## Lead Poison (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> personally, i dont think listening to any rock song, or watching Friday the 13th (or all 76 of them...) will send anyone to helll... it just gets people on the wrong path, which is broad. few will find the Lord thru rock n roll.
> although Dave Mustaine who played with Metallica and later founded Megadeth is now saying that he is a Christian...  i pray he is. when i was in darkness, he was my favorite musician for a long time...
> 
> Matthew 7:13
> “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it...



I agree 10 point! 

Well said and a very true statement brother!


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## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> If rock is so terrible ,why are there christian singers who use rock music as the basis of their music ? Doesnt god say to shun all appearance of evil ? I m not as young as I used to be ,but I still cant understand half the words when they are played forward. Have any of you played them backwards to make sure there isnt anything there ?



than those singers need to examine themselves in the light of Scripture to see if they're truly Christians...

they shouldnt combine the two...

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

yes, shun all evil.  its rediculous to say go play all songs backwards to see what sounds they make.  if a person would listen to spiritual songs, hymns and psalms, like God tells us to... you wouldnt have to worry about what sounds are made if played backwards.


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> isnt it funny (not in a comical sense...)? that John Lennon made a comment that the Beatles were more famous then Jesus Christ... soon afterward Lennon was dead...  coincidental? i dont think so...  God cannot be mocked.



Ummm... yeah...... 
“Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right and will be proved right. ... We’re more popular than Jesus now” (Newsweek, March 21, 1966).

He was shot December 8, 1980.   That's nearly 15 years later.  I would hardly call that 'soon afterward'... but then again Jesus said that he would be returning 'soon' and it's been 2000+ years, so I suppose in comparison, that would be 'soon afterward'.  



> and is it just coincidence that the age of rockers when they die (on avg.) is about half of non-rockers...?



Considering that the lifestyle of most rockers involves hard core drugs, ummm no, I don't find that difficult to believe, either.


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## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> i've mentioned to all of them but few want to hear it... people dont want light they want darkness...
> 
> John 3:19
> And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...
> ...



Amen! Amen! Amen!!!!!


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## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> Actually it's even funnier because what I posted came off the links that you listed when you were accused of not giving facts....
> 
> Guys,click the rest of his links there is a ton of info there...



i told you it was ..


you can give facts and Scripture all day long around here and some people will still refuse to accept anything that you provide them...

2 Timothy 3:7
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth


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## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> if a person would listen to spiritual songs, hymns and psalms, like God tells us to... you wouldnt have to worry about what sounds are made if played backwards.



Well now aren't you being a big hypocritical?
So basically you're saying that if a song doesn't say 'bad stuff' played forward then it doesn't matter what it says backwards.

Have you actually listened to the lyrics of Stairway to Heaven?


"Stairway To Heaven"

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold 
And she's buying the stairway to heaven. 
When she gets there she knows, if the stores are all closed 
With a word she can get what she came for. 
Ooh, ooh, and she's buying the stairway to heaven. 

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure 
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings. 
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings, 
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven. 
Ooh, it makes me wonder, 
Ooh, it makes me wonder. 

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west, 
And my spirit is crying for leaving. 
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees, 
And the voices of those who stand looking. 
Ooh, it makes me wonder, 
Ooh, it really makes me wonder. 

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune 
Then the piper will lead us to reason. 
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long 
And the forests will echo with laughter. 

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now, 
It's just a spring clean for the May queen. 
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run 
There's still time to change the road you're on. 
And it makes me wonder. 

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know, 
The piper's calling you to join him, 
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know 
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind. 

And as we wind on down the road 
Our shadows taller than our soul. 
There walks a lady we all know 
Who shines white light and wants to show 
How everything still turns to gold. 
And if you listen very hard 
The tune will come to you at last. 
When all are one and one is all 
To be a rock and not to roll. 

And she's buying the stairway to heaven.


How is that satanic?
You didn't actually answer the question he asked... what if there were 'satanic' lyrics when you played "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot"?  Would that change your mind?


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Ummm... yeah......
> “Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right and will be proved right. ... We’re more popular than Jesus now” (Newsweek, March 21, 1966).
> 
> He was shot December 8, 1980.   That's nearly 15 years later.  I would hardly call that 'soon afterward'... but then again Jesus said that he would be returning 'soon' and it's been 2000+ years, so I suppose in comparison, that would be 'soon afterward'.
> ...



God gave him a chance to repent, too bad he didnt accept God's offer... The Lord is merciful...


Genesis 19:16
And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Exodus 34:6
And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth
Deuteronomy 4:31
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. 
Deuteronomy 21:8
Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel's charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them.
Deuteronomy 32:43
Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. 
6.2 Samuel 22:26
With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright. 
7.1 Kings 20:31
And his servants said unto him, Behold now, we have heard that the kings of the house of Israel are merciful kings: let us, I pray thee, put sackcloth on our loins, and ropes upon our heads, and go out to the king of Israel: peradventure he will save thy life.
8.2 Chronicles 30:9
For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.
9.Nehemiah 9:17
And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.
10.Nehemiah 9:31
Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.
11.Psalm 18:25
With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
12.Psalm 26:11
But as for me, I will walk in mine integrity: redeem me, and be merciful unto me.
13.Psalm 37:26
He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
14.Psalm 41:4
I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.
15.Psalm 41:10
But thou, O LORD, be merciful unto me, and raise me up, that I may requite them.
16.Psalm 56:1
Be merciful unto me, O God: for man would swallow me up; he fighting daily oppresseth me.
17.Psalm 57:1
Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.
18.Psalm 59:5
Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.
19.Psalm 67:1
God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah.
20.Psalm 86:3
Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
21.Psalm 103:8
The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
22.Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.
23.Psalm 117:2
For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
24.Psalm 119:58
I intreated thy favour with my whole heart: be merciful unto me according to thy word
25.Psalm 119:76
Let, I pray thee, thy merciful kindness be for my comfort, according to thy word unto thy servant.
26.Psalm 119:132
Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.
27.Proverbs 11:17
The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh. 
28.Isaiah 57:1
The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
29.Jeremiah 3:12
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
30.Joel 2:13
And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
31.Jonah 4:2
And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
32.Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
33.Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
34.Luke 18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
35.Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
36.Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

there you go... there's over 30 reasons why God gave Lennon a chance to repent.... the Lord is merciful...


----------



## cujo (Jan 10, 2009)

I know that I'm not in the clique around here but has anyone taken it upon themselves to listen to any gospel tunes backwards? 

I'd still like to know why one of Gods creations- hail (please pardon the accent)  is deemed to be profanity and is unable to be spoken in the religion and debate forum. 

I'm just askin'.


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

letsgohuntin said:


> So are you saying that you can not actually hear the messages when the song is played backwards?
> 
> If one does not believe the hidden messages are satanic, what explanation could be given for their appearance in a song played backwards?



I hear the noise some people say are messages.  

I do not believe members of Led Zeppelin or their engineers backmasked satanic messages into Stairway to Heaven.  I think people are hearing what they want to hear in those “backwards messages”.  Most of the time people don’t “hear” the messages until someone tells them what they are hearing.

Take care.


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

cujo said:


> I know that I'm not in the clique around here but has anyone taken it upon themselves to listen to any gospel tunes backwards?
> 
> I'd still like to know why one of Gods creations- hail (please pardon the accent)  is deemed to be profanity and is unable to be spoken in the religion and debate forum.
> 
> I'm just askin'.



If you have a Windows operating system on your computer you can easily listen to any digital recording backwards.  Download a few hymns and have at it.


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> God gave him a chance to repent, too bad he didnt accept God's offer... The Lord is merciful...
> 
> there you go... there's over 30 reasons why God gave Lennon a chance to repent.... the Lord is merciful...



 Big10 didn't the Vatican forgive him about a month ago, I think I heard that on the news...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

matthewsman said:


> Bon Jovi sings in "Homebound Train":
> 
> "When I was just a boy
> THE DEVIL TOOK MY HAND
> ...



The author is completely missing the point of that verse, obviously.




> In Smash Hits magazine, Bon Jovi says:
> " . . . I'd kill my mother for rock and roll. I WOULD SELL MY SOUL."
> 
> So would Tommy Sullivan of New Jersey — AND TOMMY DID!
> Tommy, your typical, all-American, fourteen-year-old, one Saturday night, slit his own mother's throat, and then gouged her eyes out. Tommy then slashed his wrists and cut his throat from ear-to-ear, with an intensity that nearly decapitated him. Mayor Fran Slayton said, "There's just something that's bothering me about this situation. It bothers me that a good kid like that can go in two weeks." Tommy's father said, all week his son had been singing a ROCK SONG, "about blood and killing your mother."




Deanna Laney killed two of her sons and nearly killed the third one because 'God told her to'.

Lashaun Harris killed hers when she threw her three kids off of a pier, two of which their bodies were never recovered, because she said "God told her to'.

Andrea Yates drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub and later told the jail shrink that it was better because the way she had been raising them, they weren't righteous and would have been doomed to hades.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.





> Dr. Paul King, medical director of the adolescent program at Charter Lakeside Hospital, in Memphis Tennessee, says more than 80 percent of his patients are there because of rock music. He says, "the lyrics become a philosophy of life, a RELIGION."



And I wonder how many of those adolescents are children of religious zealots that turn to this 'rock music religion' because they are escaping the chains of the 'religion' they are being raised under?    There is always more than one side to a story.




> How serious are they? At the 1992 MTV Awards, the group Red Hot Chili Peppers, upon receiving their award and giving thanks, said:
> "FIRST OF ALL we want to thank Satan . . ."



And they laughed all the way to the bank from the extra publicity it brought, too.

Same thing with Marilyn Manson... he's got a great marketing niche, and the more outrageous he makes himself the more money it brings.




> These groups know perfectly well who they're serving and they are totally dedicated to their god!




And christians are totally dedicated to their god.  No difference.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> God gave him a chance to repent, too bad he didnt accept God's offer... The Lord is merciful...
> there you go... there's over 30 reasons why God gave Lennon a chance to repent.... the Lord is merciful...



How do you know that he didn't?  Are you God?  You think just because it wasn't published in a magazine that at some point he didn't say, wow, I'm sorry I said that, that was rude.  At one point Lennon did become involved in Christianity. Maybe you should do a little more research before you judge someone.  You don't know what is in anyone's heart, only God does.  How about you leave the judgement to him. I think he is more qualified than you are.

Here's a news flash for you.... ummm...  at some point in time, everyone dies    I know it may come as a shock... sorry about that.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

*forgot this one.....*



matthewsman said:


> Rocker Frank Zappa (who discovered the awful truth December 4, 1993 the second he died)



Wonder how the author knows this?  Did he get a postcard from hades from Zappa or something?


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Well now aren't you being a big hypocritical?
> So basically you're saying that if a song doesn't say 'bad stuff' played forward then it doesn't matter what it says backwards.
> 
> Have you actually listened to the lyrics of Stairway to Heaven?
> ...



big hypocritical  

not at all.  God told me to obey His commandments so thats what i am trying to do...  He told me to listen to psalms, spiritual songs and hymns... 

3.Ephesians 5:19
speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,

4.Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

so thats what i am doing...  forgive me for wanting to please my Savior... forgive me for wanting to please the One who is going to keep me out of eternal darkness...

14.1 Corinthians 10:33
just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

15.Galatians 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

16.Ephesians 6:6
not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,

17.Colossians 3:22
Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God.

Romans 8:8
So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Galatians 1:15
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace.

1 Thessalonians 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God;

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Big10 didn't the Vatican forgive him about a month ago, I think I heard that on the news...



yes, they did...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/21/vatican-forgives-john-len_n_145642.html

so instead of going straight to helll... he's burning in puragtory  now for either 1 or 100 million years... nobody really knows, not even God... the pope gets to make those decisions....



sorry, i couldnt resist...


----------



## Lead Poison (Jan 10, 2009)

cujo said:


> I know that I'm not in the clique around here but has anyone taken it upon themselves to listen to any gospel tunes backwards?
> 
> I'd still like to know why one of Gods creations- hail (please pardon the accent)  is deemed to be profanity and is unable to be spoken in the religion and debate forum.
> 
> I'm just askin'.



The reason is there is a censor for the word. Though some may use the word you're referring to in a non-profanity manner, others would not.


----------



## Lead Poison (Jan 10, 2009)

*"Deanna Laney killed two of her sons and nearly killed the third one because 'God told her to'.

Lashaun Harris killed hers when she threw her three kids off of a pier, two of which their bodies were never recovered, because she said "God told her to'.

Andrea Yates drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub and later told the jail shrink that it was better because the way she had been raising them, they weren't righteous and would have been doomed to hades.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point."*

Wrong, God didn't tell these people to do these things.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> why are you here again? to show everyone you're an antichrist?



Why shouldn't I be?  
I've been here for over 4 years now.  Get used to it.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Lead Poison said:


> Wrong, God didn't tell these people to do these things.



How do you know?

God told Abraham to go kill his son.

Maybe God did tell these people to do it, but somehow forgot to send the replacement like he did for Abraham? 

In fact the entire bible is FULL of God telling people to go murder others... including babies.  So really, it shouldn't be difficult to believe he would tell someone to kill, should it?

If you need biblical reference, just do a Google for something like 'murder in the bible' or something similar... I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of evidence.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> why are you here again? to show everyone you're an antichrist?



P.S.  why not answer the question instead of trying to shift the focus on to me?


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

DD , Asking folks why they are here when they dont buy into his spiels is rapidly becoming big10 s trademark. For him to say he is not judgmental in one post and then to call you the antichrist in another shows how great a witness for god he is. Notice how nimbly John went from being sent to hades by god to being sent to purgatory. Frank probably did send a postcard but only the true believers got to read it.
BIG10... YOU LOSE MORE CREDABILITY EVERY TIME YOU POST, SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK .


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

DD.... According to some you have to go to a different forum if you want facts , or so I was told.


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> P.S.  why not answer the question instead of trying to shift the focus on to me?



had he repented and gotten saved he would have started singing music that was pleasing to the Lord... and he didnt, so that how i know...


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> How do you know?
> 
> God told Abraham to go kill his son.
> 
> ...



 I know a man who a couple of years ago got locked up by our local sheriffs dept. they caught him cutting circles in a local city park. He told them God told him to go buy a six pack of beer and pour 4 in the floorboard and drink the other two and to cut circles in the park until the law came and for him to tell the sheriff's deputies that they needed to quit eating to many doughnuts.
   It was only a few years before that he was in a mental hospital and thought he was Batman....so not everyone who says God told them to do or say something is truly listening to God....


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> had he repented and gotten saved he would have started singing music that was pleasing to the Lord... and he didnt, so that how i know...



How do you know what music is pleasing to the Lord?


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's a couple for you... I don't have time for much more, I've got to study for a test... but I think this makes the point anyway....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ma4Tf9Y5diU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ma4Tf9Y5diU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fnpoOk8Zv4U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fnpoOk8Zv4U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> DD , Asking folks why they are here when they dont buy into his spiels is rapidly becoming big10 s trademark. For him to say he is not judgmental in one post and then to call you the antichrist in another shows how great a witness for god he is.



 HE did not call her THE antichrist, he called her AN antichrist... so here is the Biblical definition of an antichrist..1 John 4:3

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV
  so you be the judge of the definition.....


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I know a man who a couple of years ago got locked up by our local sheriffs dept. they caught him cutting circles in a local city park. He told them God told him to go buy a six pack of beer and pour 4 in the floorboard and drink the other two and to cut circles in the park until the law came and for him to tell the sheriff's deputies that they needed to quit eating to many doughnuts.
> It was only a few years before that he was in a mental hospital and thought he was Batman....so not everyone who says God told them to do or say something is truly listening to God....



And not everyone who says the devil told them to do or say something is truly listening to the devil.  Blaming things on the devil is the easy way out... just like absolving yourself from sin is easy by saying 'well it's ok, I'm not perfect, but I'm saved'. 

Religion is the ultimate crutch.  Takes all of the responsibility off of yourself for your own actions.   "It's not my fault, the devil made me do it."


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> DD , Asking folks why they are here when they dont buy into his spiels is rapidly becoming big10 s trademark. For him to say he is not judgmental in one post and then to call you the antichrist in another shows how great a witness for god he is. Notice how nimbly John went from being sent to hades by god to being sent to purgatory. Frank probably did send a postcard but only the true believers got to read it.
> 
> 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
> 
> ...


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> And not everyone who says the devil told them to do or say something is truly listening to the devil.  Blaming things on the devil is the easy way out... just like absolving yourself from sin is easy by saying 'well it's ok, I'm not perfect, but I'm saved'.
> 
> Religion is the ultimate crutch.  Takes all of the responsibility off of yourself for your own actions.   "It's not my fault, the devil made me do it."



 DO you like doughnuts????


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

LOL, DD.  That reminded me of this little gem.  Oh, the irony.  Here we find Ozzy Osborne himself poking fun at the dirty little religious zealot Mr. Swaggart:

I'm looking for a Miracle Man
That tells me no lies
I'm looking for a Miracle Man
Who's not in disguise
I don't know where he'll come from
And I don't know where he's been
But it's not our Jimmy Sinner
Because he's so obscene

Miracle Man got busted

Today I saw a Miracle Man
On TV cryin'
Such a hypocritical man
Born again, dying

He don't know where he's going
But we know just where he's been
'Twas our little Jimmy Sinner
That I saw on the screen

Miracle Man got busted
Miracle Man

A Devil with a crucifix
Brimstone and fire
He needs another carnal fix
To take him higher and higher
Now Jimmy, he got busted
With his pants down
Repent ye wretched sinner
Self righteous clown

Miracle Man got busted


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> And not everyone who says the devil told them to do or say something is truly listening to the devil.  Blaming things on the devil is the easy way out... just like absolving yourself from sin is easy by saying 'well it's ok, I'm not perfect, but I'm saved'.
> 
> Religion is the ultimate crutch.  Takes all of the responsibility off of yourself for your own actions.   "It's not my fault, the devil made me do it."



correct, that is what religion does but loving your Savior to the point of dying for Him is not a religion.  whats going on between me and Jesus is not religion.  its a born again servant who is doing everything that he can to show his love for His Savior...

True born-again, blood washed Chritsians do not blame the devil for anything... we are in control of our actions
even tho the devil does tempt us...  the devil has never forced anyone to steal, murder, etc,,,,  tempt ? yes but not force.  he cant force you to do anything...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> maybe try taking your Bible out of the wrapper and actually reading it.



I have.  Have you?
You ain't been around here too long, so maybe you should do a search on some of my past posts before you start making a fool out of yourself.  My posts ARE from the bible. I haven't seen you reply to any of those.

How about you dust off your bible and reply to something like this instead of worrying about why I'm here?

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=3017858&postcount=68


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> correct, that is what religion does but loving your Savior to the point of dying for Him is not a religion.  whats going on between me and Jesus is not religion.  its a born again servant who is doing everything that he can to show his love for His Savior...
> 
> True born-again, blood washed Chritsians do not blame the devil for anything... we are in control of our actions
> even tho the devil does tempt us...  the devil has never forced anyone to steal, murder, etc,,,,  tempt ? yes but not force.  he cant force you to do anything...



The devil tempts.
God tempts.
Seems not much difference in good and evil then, huh?
No black and white, just eternal shades of grey.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> DO you like doughnuts????



I try to stay away from them.  They are the pastry of the devil.


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> I try to stay away from them.  They are the pastry of the devil.



 Does he get mad if you eat'em ???


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

I havent seen any bashing or blaspheming . I  have seen cult like behavour on the part of some of the so called christians in this post. You evidently feel that you are capable of sitting in judgement thereby putting yourself on an equal basis with god ,if there is one. You aint god nor are you capable of judging me.


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> I havent seen any bashing or blaspheming . I  have seen cult like behavour on the part of some of the so called christians in this post. You evidently feel that you are capable of sitting in judgement thereby putting yourself on an equal basis with god ,if there is one. You aint god nor are you capable of judging me.



  Hey Earl, just one question for you do you like doughnuts???


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> Does he get mad if you eat'em ???


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> I have.  Have you?
> You ain't been around here too long, so maybe you should do a search on some of my past posts before you start making a fool out of yourself.  My posts ARE from the bible. I haven't seen you reply to any of those.
> 
> How about you dust off your bible and reply to something like this instead of worrying about why I'm here?
> ...


you're taking every chance you can get to show where the Bible is in error. denyin this verse, denying that worse...its obviously not good enough for you.  well its good enough for me and i love every word in the Word...


btw, i am not worrying about anything...


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Do you handle snakes like the bible says ? 
Do you cast the first stone ?
Do you wash your brother and sisters feet ? 
Shall we continue just to see who knows the most scripture ?
I garantee the devil can quote chapter and verse just like you do.
Hmmmm,makes you wonder.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Oh, by the way, I thought I might mention to some of you that this 'symbol' here    is considered a 'satanic' symbol, making the sign of the devil's horns and is used by pretty much all rock and rollers and their fans... so some of you may want to refrain from using that smiley in the future, just to be on the safe side


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Yes sir I do. And that ole devil just keeps puttin them in front of me.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> I garantee the devil can quote chapter and verse just like you do.



They already know that, earl....


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

HEY ! Wait a minute pigpen. Please tell me you are not the guy in the park !


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> HEY ! Wait a minute pigpen. Please tell me you are not the guy in the park !



 No! I am batman...


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

DANG ! Scared myself there for a minute. Well if you are the caped crusader ,i guess you cant be AN antichrist. I am relieved.


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> I havent seen any bashing or blaspheming . I  have seen cult like behavour on the part of some of the so called christians in this post. You evidently feel that you are capable of sitting in judgement thereby putting yourself on an equal basis with god ,if there is one. You aint god nor are you capable of judging me.



its funny, that Tiger Woods knows golf but nobody calls him a cult member (although they should sense he is a Buddahist)... but when someone who does know the Bible gives opinions based on Scriptures... ooohhhhh  that guy is in a cult...

and yes, I do know what in the hearts of Lennon and Manson, and all the rest... and here it is...
Geb 8:21
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth

Jeremiah 17:9  “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
      And desperately wicked;   Who can know it?

see i do know what was in Lennons heart b/c God just told me what was in his heart...  its the same thing in all mens hearts...

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one...              so yes, earl, you can be judged by a Christian who is not guilty of hypocrisy... that is how people are led to Christ.  if you cannot ever make decision about a lost person than nobody would ever get saved/...


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> DANG ! Scared myself there for a minute. Well if you are the caped crusader ,i guess you cant be AN antichrist. I am relieved.



 nope, just trying to over come the powers of darkness..but you should still be careful, some one might cut circles in your yard..


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Now thats just silly.....both of ya ll. Clairvoyants and closet trenchers. What will ya ll come up with next ?LOL & LMBO


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Oh, by the way, I thought I might mention to some of you that this 'symbol' here    is considered a 'satanic' symbol, making the sign of the devil's horns and is used by pretty much all rock and rollers and their fans... so some of you may want to refrain from using that smiley in the future, just to be on the safe side



actully, Kerry got this one correct...   its called the "el diablo".... and i wont ever use the sign myself... i dont wan to get a visit from that little guy...

http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0123.htm


dd, are you gonna refute my other post?


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> Now thats just silly.....both of ya ll. Clairvoyants and closet trenchers. What will ya ll come up with next ?LOL & LMBO



silly?  you want to see silly, look at your avatar...  who in their right mind would take a picture of someone else measuring a shrimp...

right pp1?


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> a Christian who is not guilty of hypocrisy



That's an oxymoron.

And before you get your panties in a wad, I didn't call anyone a MORON!!!


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> dd, are you gonna refute my other post?



Which one?


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> silly?  you want to see silly, look at your avatar...  who in their right mind would take a picture of someone else measuring a shrimp...
> 
> right pp1?



 yep, I wonder if he mounted it???


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> Now thats just silly.....both of ya ll. Clairvoyants and closet trenchers. What will ya ll come up with next ?LOL & LMBO



PigPen1, our names keep changing every week... last week were "maggots" and this week we're clairvoints and closet trenchers....  

i'll be the clairvoyant because i dont know what a closet trencher is....


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> actully, anichrist got this one correct...



Well of course I got that right....


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> PigPen1, our names keep changing every week... last week were "maggots" and this week we're clairvoints and closet trenchers....
> 
> i'll be the clairvoyant because i dont know what a closet trencher is....



 I think I will still be a caterpillar..


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

Once again you have struck gold big. That is actually my hand in my avatar. When you limit out on that size ,show em off.
On a more serious note you need to read the forum rules on personal attacks. I have never met DD but your continual calling her an antichrist or antichrist is uncalled for.  You are truly showing your ignorance.


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> its funny, that Tiger Woods knows golf but nobody calls him a cult member (although they should sense he is a Buddahist)... but when someone who does know the Bible gives opinions based on Scriptures... ooohhhhh  that guy is in a cult...
> 
> and yes, I do know what in the hearts of Lennon and Manson, and all the rest... and here it is...
> Geb 8:21
> ...





LOL.  So now another religion (Buddhism) is a cult to you?   

Regarding cults: Beware the cult of purity.  

That is actually from a Slayer lyric.  Fitting, however, so I appreciated the irony.  


For the record one of my best friends is a Buddhist and is one of the finest persons I know.  He is probably the most honest, compassionate, free-giving, loving, caring person I’ve ever met.  You could learn a lot from him.  We all could.

And NO you don't know the heart of ANYONE but yourself.


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> On a more serious note you need to read the forum rules on personal attacks. I have never met DD but your continual calling her an antichrist or antichrist is uncalled for.  You are truly showing your ignorance.



I agree.  And it isn't very becoming of a Christian.  He appears to be just another "holier than thou – look I’m better than you" type of – person.  I pray for him.


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 10, 2009)

good night...


----------



## BookHound (Jan 10, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> good night...



Sleep well, dude.  Have a blessed day tomorrow.  Spend it with your family.  That is what is important.


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> That's an oxymoron.
> 
> And before you get your panties in a wad, I didn't call anyone a MORON!!!



i actually wear boxers so i cant get them in a wad...  

are Christians sometimes guilty of hypocrasy? yes, a lot but not always.  if a non drinking Christian trys to help save a heavy drinking nonbeliever... then the Christian can say, "you have to stop drinking so much..."  that would not be hypocracy.  if the Christian was a heavy drinker too, that would be hypocritical...

if you were calling me a moron...  no problem. i welcome it...  it means that God is blessing me...

Matthew 5:11
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.


----------



## earl (Jan 10, 2009)

BookHound .....I think there is a thread on praying for the devil already. JK


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 10, 2009)

Big10point said:


> Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.



How ironic... that very thing was said to me as well!!


----------



## Big10point (Jan 10, 2009)

earl said:


> Once again you have struck gold big. That is actually my hand in my avatar. When you limit out on that size ,show em off.
> On a more serious note you need to read the forum rules on personal attacks. I have never met DD but your continual calling her an antichrist or antichrist is uncalled for.  You are truly showing your ignorance.



ok, if yall are gonna be a bunch of winers i wont call her that anymore, even tho she continually bashes the Bible, thereby bashing God....  i hope dd gets saved and lives her life for God.. if she ever comes  back here discussing how awesome the Word of God is.... we'll know!  

she fails to realize that theres millions of people out there who can see the perfection of the Bible...  She doesnt see that b/c that is not what she is looking for.  shes looking for anything to use in her favor to disprove the Bible... and make it look in error...  i am not pro catholicism but i dont go to their boards and start bashing the catechism...  most of the people on this board are seeking God in some kind of way in their life.  they are looking for help or answers from others who are in the same boat as them... then you have few other folks who come in here and start bashing Jesus, the Bible, church, etc....  it just doesnt do much for the folks here looking for info and a good debate...


----------



## earl (Jan 11, 2009)

I bet you dont like women wearing pants or getting out of the kitchen either. If you think we are whining PM a moderator and get their take on it. I know you ve been told once or twice about being a newbie here. IMHO you are quickly wearing out your welcome. It would  behoove you to get a dictionary and look up the word debate. If you look at the top of this forum it doesnt say BIG10 s personal rant. Other folks get to voice their opinion whether it falls in line with yours or not. Now.....go and sin no more.


----------



## Big10point (Jan 11, 2009)

earl said:


> I bet you dont like women wearing pants or getting out of the kitchen either. If you think we are whining PM a moderator and get their take on it. I know you ve been told once or twice about being a newbie here. IMHO you are quickly wearing out your welcome. It would  behoove you to get a dictionary and look up the word debate. If you look at the top of this forum it doesnt say BIG10 s personal rant. Other folks get to voice their opinion whether it falls in line with yours or not. Now.....go and sin no more.



Gal 4:16
 16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

didint you just call me a "clairvoyant" a couple threads ago???  i am new here so i may not know all of the rules yet... but you've been here 4 years so whats your excuse?


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 11, 2009)

Big10point said:


> ok, if yall are gonna be a bunch of winers i wont call her that anymore,



I really don't care what you call me... I'm finishing my bachelors in psychology, I know what it means when people have to divert from the topic at hand and resort to name-calling 




> i am not pro catholicism but i dont go to their boards and start bashing the catechism...  most of the people on this board are seeking God in some kind of way in their life.  they are looking for help or answers from others who are in the same boat as them... then you have few other folks who come in here and start bashing Jesus, the Bible, church, etc....  it just doesnt do much for the folks here looking for info and a good debate...



This isn't the 'christian forum'.  It's the spiritual discussion and debate forum.  Regardless of your understanding of the word, 'spiritual' doesn't just involve christianity. And it isn't only christians who look for God.


----------



## Buzz (Jan 11, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Here's a couple for you... I don't have time for much more, I've got to study for a test... but I think this makes the point anyway....
> 
> <object width="425" height="344">
> 
> ...





That's too good...  Maybe Allister Crowley showed Ozzy, Led Zeppelin, and Jimmy Swaggart all how to hide the devil in the music backwards.


----------



## Big10point (Jan 11, 2009)

BookHound said:


> LOL.  So now another religion (Buddhism) is a cult to you?
> 
> Regarding cults: Beware the cult of purity.
> 
> ...


http://www.eaec.org/cults/buddha.htm
http://www.gotquestions.org/Buddhist-Christian.html



yes buddhism is a cult.  sorry to break that to you... and i appreciate your buddy is a good person...  but that wont help him get to Heaven...

John 10:1
[ Jesus the True Shepherd ] “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way (buddhism), the same is a thief and a robber...

those arent my words but God's...  there is only 1 way into heaven and that is Jesus... last time i checked, buddhists do not accept Jesus as their Savior...   cult or not, unless your friend accepts Christ... he will be lost.  thats in the Bible.. you just have to read it...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 11, 2009)

Big10point said:


> yes buddhism is a cult.  sorry to break that to you...



So is christianity... sorry to break that to you 

cultâ€‚ â€‚/kÊŒlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [kuhlt] Show IPA Pronunciation  

–noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.  
3. the object of such devotion. 
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. 
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. 
7. the members of such a religion or sect. 
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific. 


Most people only consider a 'cult' to be #6 and #7 (and only pertaining to religions that aren't theirs  ) but really ALL religions are cults.

And now, I'm done for a while tonight because I really do need to study for a test on Monday.  I'm testing for part of my certification on my next level of hypnotherapy.  Yes... I am certified in making suggestive therapies in the minds of unsuspecting clients... be afraid, be very afraid!


----------



## thedeacon (Jan 11, 2009)

jason4445 said:


> Man if you have to spend hours playing rock songs backwards to find what you suspect is evil in this world, you really need to get out more.  Plenty of evil just outside your front door, you don't have to play songs backwards to find it.
> 
> People have been playing songs backwards since the 60's and claim to find all sorts of things even in the Popeye song and Mary Poppins.  It basically started with the Beatles. Here is a web page, warning contains bad language sometimes.
> 
> http://www.reversespeech.com/music_reversals.htm






You said it brother, I am more worried about what people are hearing when they play them forward than what they here when they are played backwards.

I just listened to  a John Prine song backwards and it says its bad to put regular gas in a big black buick. hehehehehe


----------



## Big10point (Jan 11, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> So is christianity... sorry to break that to you
> 
> cult   /kʌlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [kuhlt] Show IPA Pronunciation
> 
> ...



there is some truth to this... there are many Christian cults (sects) out there...  that are not in Truth... there is one Truth and a WHOLE bunch of error in the world...  the one thing that makes True Christianity not a cult is Truth.  the Word is God (John 1:1) and the Word is what i focus on... i do not need 1 extra writing to help me find God. not CS Lewis, Swaggert, Stanley, Smiley Osteen or anyone else...  Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God...  my faith is what it is b/c of the Word of God... i am not gonna show up in Heaven one day and have to tell the Creator of everything that He founded a cult...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 11, 2009)

Big10point said:


> there is some truth to this... there are many Christian cults (sects) out there...  that are not in Truth... there is one Truth and a WHOLE bunch of error in the world...  the one thing that makes True Christianity not a cult is Truth.  the Word is God (John 1:1) and the Word is what i focus on... i do not need 1 extra writing to help me find God. not CS Lewis, Swaggert, Stanley, Smiley Osteen or anyone else...  Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God...  my faith is what it is b/c of the Word of God... i am not gonna show up in Heaven one day and have to tell the Creator of everything that He founded a cult...




ALL Christianity is a cult, as defined by definition #1.
The word 'cult' has been given a bad rep thanks to the Hari Krishnas and Waco wackos etc.  But as defined, it is what it is. All religions fall underneath it.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Jan 11, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> And now, I'm done for a while tonight because I really do need to study for a test on Monday.  I'm testing for part of my certification on my next level of hypnotherapy.  Yes... I am certified in making suggestive therapies in the minds of unsuspecting clients... be afraid, be very afraid!




Does that mean we need to start wearing our tin foil hats again?

Good luck on your exam!


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 11, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> Does that mean we need to start wearing our tin foil hats again?




Nah, I prefer saran wrap, myself.  
Of course, what it probably does mean is that the Woody's members that I have created and sent hypnosis CD's to in order to help with weight loss and to stop smoking, should probably play them backwards to see what 'hidden' messages I've encoded in them.  



> Good luck on your exam!



Thanks!


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 11, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Nah, I prefer saran wrap, myself.
> Of course, what it probably does mean is that the Woody's members that I have created and sent hypnosis CD's to in order to help with weight loss and to stop smoking, should probably play them backwards to see what 'hidden' messages I've encoded in them.
> 
> 
> ...



 I did and it said for me to eat more doughnuts..


----------



## pigpen1 (Jan 11, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Yes... I am certified in making suggestive therapies in the minds of unsuspecting clients... be afraid, be very afraid!



 I thought all women were born with this certification...


----------



## christianhunter (Jan 11, 2009)

Lead Poison said:


> I would NEVER want my kids to listen too, dress like, look like, act, or talk like Marilyn Manson. He is such a terrible model and/or example for our kids. Obviously, I don't thank Marilyn Manson rocks.



When I was younger,as I stated I loved "Stairway to Heaven".Since I've been saved,I don't want to risk my walk with GOD over anything,porno,music,or anything else.That is contrary to GOD.I still find myself listening to Stairway to Heaven if I hear it playing.Guess I won't anymore music has lost it's zeal to me,as have movie stars.I no longer idolize them as I did in my teens through my early 30's.They are just misguided and cult ridden in a lot of cases.I still watch movies,not explicit sex movies,and still listen to mostly southern rock and easy listening rock.I was shocked when I heard about Ray Boltz the Contemporary Christian singer,as I listen to a lot of that now.I find myself since salvation 19 years ago,changing the station on the radio,and T.V. a lot more often.GOD help us to understand,and deliver us.My step-son brought home a Manson Biography book,I took it to the drive way and burned it.I had a DVD given to me by my wife"O brother where art thou"I heard Clooney say something blasphamus in it and destroyed it also.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 11, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I did and it said for me to eat more doughnuts..





pigpen1 said:


> I thought all women were born with this certification...


----------



## jawja_peach (Jan 11, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> When I was younger,as I stated I loved "Stairway to Heaven".Since I've been saved,I don't want to risk my walk with GOD over anything,porno,music,or anything else.That is contrary to GOD.I still find myself listening to Stairway to Heaven if I hear it playing.Guess I won't anymore music has lost it's zeal to me,as have movie stars.I no longer idolize them as I did in my teens through my early 30's.They are just misguided and cult ridden in a lot of cases.I still watch movies,not explicit sex movies,and still listen to mostly southern rock and easy listening rock.I was shocked when I heard about Ray Boltz the Contemporary Christian singer,as I listen to a lot of that now.I find myself since salvation 19 years ago,changing the station on the radio,and T.V. a lot more often.GOD help us to understand,and deliver us.My step-son brought home a  Manson Biography book,I took it to the drive way and burned it.I had a DVD given to me by my wife"O brother where art thou"I heard Clooney say something blasphamus in it and destroyed it also.



When I was younger I was a head-banger...lol...listened to it all, and loved it. Now looking back on those years I honestly don't see that listening to it changed me in anyway... or at least if it did, I can't see that it did/has. But I am strong-willed and don't fall into the same groove as others my age/generation. I also don't throw my hands up and squeal if I see a mouse in the house. (a lizard, maybe...or a frog...I LOATH THEM) But, I do my own thing, always have. But there are some that can't do anything without falling prey some sort of 'evil'. For instance, I can listen to music and hear a song. Others listen the same song and tell me that it was this or that...it said stuff about drugs, sex, etc....??? OK... I missed that. So now, I do try to 'censor' the music my kids listen to along with these new cartoons, it's getting worse every day. But I do think at times, like it was with me, if they would be 'changed' by it.


----------



## earl (Jan 11, 2009)

Any body that burns books


----------



## earl (Jan 11, 2009)

I dont even want to go there !


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 12, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> ALL Christianity is a cult, as defined by definition #1.
> The word 'cult' has been given a bad rep thanks to the Hari Krishnas and Waco wackos etc.  But as defined, it is what it is. All religions fall underneath it.



Oooh, i am gonna tell Jesus that you said He founded a cult...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 12, 2009)

1BigBuckDown said:


> Oooh, i am gonna tell Jesus that He founded a cult...



Doesn't he already know?  I thought that's what the whole "WWJD" thing was about... great marketing campaign!!   


And for those who are picking up stones now as they read this because they have no sense of humor and think I just blasphemed.... sorry


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 12, 2009)

earl said:


> I dont even want to go there !



thats because christianhunter is an fanatical zealot... right duke of earl?

:


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 12, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> Doesn't he already know?  I thought that's what the whole "WWJD" thing was about... great marketing campaign!!
> 
> 
> And for those who are picking up stones now as they read this because they have no sense of humor and think I just blasphemed.... sorry



yes that would be blasphemy...  i wouldnt want to be a fly on the wall in Heaven when you go before Jesus on judgement day and explain to Him your "idle" words and blaspheming of Him and His Word and His Church....


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 12, 2009)

1BigBuckDown said:


> Oooh, i am gonna tell Jesus that you said He founded a cult...





1BigBuckDown said:


> yes that would be blasphemy...  i wouldnt want to be a fly on the wall in Heaven when you go before Jesus on judgement day and explain to Him your "idle" words and blaspheming of Him and His Word and His Church....





1.  You're a hypocrite.
2.  No worries... I think it's only Hindu that believe you will come back as a fly in your next life........


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 12, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> 1.  You're a hypocrite.
> 2.  No worries... I think it's only Hindu that believe you will come back as a fly in your next life........



why am i a hypocrite?  do you have proof....? i'd love to see it.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 12, 2009)

1BigBuckDown said:


> why am i a hypocrite?  do you have proof....? i'd love to see it.



It's ok for you to mockingly say 'oooh I'm gonna tell Jesus you said he founded a cult!" but I can't make a joke? That's hypocracy.


----------



## earl (Jan 12, 2009)

I didnt think to put book burner in my definition of zealot because I didnt think that in this age of education and enlightenment that there was some one who would burn any book ,much less admit to it. There is no future in trying to have any dialouge with some one of this caliber.
Sorry DD,but you will have to carry on without me, this thread has gone beyond the realm of reality.


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 12, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> It's ok for you to mockingly say 'oooh I'm gonna tell Jesus you said he founded a cult!" but I can't make a joke? That's hypocracy.



i was simply trying to make a funny.... although, i dont think Jesus the Creator will appreciate anyone calling His plan of salvation a cult...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 13, 2009)

1BigBuckDown said:


> i was simply trying to make a funny....



So was I.


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 13, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> I do know a few 'Bible Thumpers' that will get up in your face and tell you/preach to you 'Your gonna bust H*** wide open....' and you (in general) may be. But please do not put all of us 'Bible Thumpers' in the same category. I have a few friends that are non-believers, and I don't get in their face, I get on my knees in prayer.  I am not any ones judge, that's God's job. Now the Bible does say that we shall know a tree by the fruit that it bears, that a corrupt tree can not bring forth  good fruit. (not word for word) But how this tree is pruned and cut back is not my place. I leave that up to the Master Gardener. We all need to clean up what's in our own garden and at our own door step before we go looking for cobwebbs and rotten fruit at someone else's dwelling place. And clean up can go by so much faster with a song in your heart...Like 'What a friend we have in Jesus'....this is a great one to hum while your cleaning the "Dawg" Poo off your porch left by an _uninvited_ very rude guest....All are welcome that show respect, and not snide remarks to those they do not know . Have a Blessed Day...




I missed this post before... it's a funny thing, those 'snide remarks to those they do not know'... isn't it? 

You are correct, it's not a good idea to judge things when you don't know all the facts.  For example, if someone has an intimate relationship with God, and then later down the road decides to turn away from it, are you able to judge how that person may be invited to rekindle that relationship?

If someone has an intimate relationship with God, and, let's say,  in their relationship they use music to worship and feel closest to God, is it beyond comprehension that God may use that music later to talk to their heart?  I don't mean just any music in general, but perhaps there was a specific song or songs that God knew if that person heard, it would speak to their heart and they would know it was Him speaking to them.  Now, to you, or to someone else, it may just seem coincidence, but since you were not in their intimate relationship, you really wouldn't know, would you?  There are some things that are between God and you that no one else knows or understands.  

And wouldn't you agree that God can use many ways to invite someone to have a relationship with Him?  Or do you believe it's all the same for everyone?  It is very possible that God gives out invitations for us to have a relationship with Him.  You just don't recognize them because they aren't your invitation.


----------



## 1BigBuckDown (Jan 13, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> So was I.



whats wrong with me? i should have known that being called a hypocrite was all in good fun...


----------



## Dixie Dawg (Jan 13, 2009)

1BigBuckDown said:


> whats wrong with me? i should have known that being called a hypocrite was all in good fun...



That wasn't the 'funny' I was talking about.  I was referring to my statement that you said was blasphemous.  Obviously we are not on the same page here.... although that's nothing new, I suppose


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## jawja_peach (Jan 13, 2009)

Dixie Dawg said:


> I missed this post before... it's a funny thing, those 'snide remarks to those they do not know'... isn't it?
> 
> You are correct, it's not a good idea to judge things when you don't know all the facts.  For example, if someone has an intimate relationship with God, and then later down the road decides to turn away from it, are you able to judge how that person may be invited to rekindle that relationship?
> 
> ...



 Hey Dixie Dawg you are very correct about the music and that intimate relationship with God. I have a few songs, a couple of them are hymns the others sang by a different Southern Gospel groups. These songs remind me when I hear them of how much I love God and how lowly I feel sometimes as I'm nothing in myself, but everything in HIM. It's so hard to explain the feelings that I have when I here these songs. Some tickle my heart of good memories, others of sad memories-- that remind me of my dad who past away in 1996. I also have a few that seem to always come on when I need that boost. And most of the time its when I'm getting ready for church. I am a very sick woman, have an 80yr. old body, and I'm only 33.  {I have Lupus, Ankolosing Spondylitis-Arthritis of the spine, and other forms of Athritis, and Fibromyalgia.} But when I'm getting ready struggling to move and running exceptionally late, one of those songs come on, and before I know it, I'm done full of the Spirit, shout'n and praising Him right in the middle of the bathroom.  (I haven't told but two people this until now...) A lot of people when they hear that some one was SHOUTING AND PRAISING GOD, others assume they were putting on a show--and they may have been. But not me. I was alone, with God and 'that song like those you spoke of'. I was there, felt the Spirit of God, and just let loose. Most people do not understand what I just said, nor what you said...but that's because they don't have that personal one on one relationship with God. I do. I am a born-again-Bible Believing- Spiritual Child of God and I'm not afraid to tell anyone. I'm not a religious fanatic like some. People need to get away from Religion and get Salvation. H*** is full and, increasing daily, with Religious people. I'm glad that you were able to get something out of the message I sent. So unto you, and what you said about music, Yes, I agree. Music plays a huge part in my walk with God and without it, I don't know if I'd be as close to Him. Sometimes the songs say what I feel, and with Him knowing my heart, He knows how much I love Him...with out saying a word. That's the type of relationship I have with my Heavenly Father...


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## gtparts (Jan 13, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> Hey Dixie Dawg you are very correct about the music and that intimate relationship with God. I have a few songs, a couple of them are hymns the others sang by a different Southern Gospel groups. These songs remind me when I hear them of how much I love God and how lowly I feel sometimes as I'm nothing in myself, but everything in HIM. It's so hard to explain the feelings that I have when I here these songs. Some tickle my heart of good memories, others of sad memories-- that remind me of my dad who past away in 1996. I also have a few that seem to always come on when I need that boost. And most of the time its when I'm getting ready for church. I am a very sick woman, have an 80yr. old body, and I'm only 33.  {I have Lupus, Ankolosing Spondylitis-Arthritis of the spine, and other forms of Athritis, and Fibromyalgia.} But when I'm getting ready struggling to move and running exceptionally late, one of those songs come on, and before I know it, I'm done full of the Spirit, shout'n and praising Him right in the middle of the bathroom.  (I haven't told but two people this until now...) A lot of people when they hear that some one was SHOUTING AND PRAISING GOD, others assume they were putting on a show--and they may have been. But not me. I was alone, with God and 'that song like those you spoke of'. I was there, felt the Spirit of God, and just let loose. Most people do not understand what I just said, nor what you said...but that's because they don't have that personal one on one relationship with God. I do. I am a born-again-Bible Believing- Spiritual Child of God and I'm not afraid to tell anyone. I'm not a religious fanatic like some. People need to get away from Religion and get Salvation. H*** is full and, increasing daily, with Religious people. I'm glad that you were able to get something out of the message I sent. So unto you, and what you said about music, Yes, I agree. Music plays a huge part in my walk with God and without it, I don't know if I'd be as close to Him. Sometimes the songs say what I feel, and with Him knowing my heart, He knows how much I love Him...with out saying a word. That's the type of relationship I have with my Heavenly Father...



God bless you, young lady! I have had two friends in recent years whose wives each suffered, 1 w/ lupus and i w/ fibromyalgia. Both had it tough. I can't imagine dealing with both plus arthritis. You will be in my prayers.

Grace, peace, and joy to you and yours.


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## christianhunter (Jan 13, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> When I was younger I was a head-banger...lol...listened to it all, and loved it. Now looking back on those years I honestly don't see that listening to it changed me in anyway... or at least if it did, I can't see that it did/has. But I am strong-willed and don't fall into the same groove as others my age/generation. I also don't throw my hands up and squeal if I see a mouse in the house. (a lizard, maybe...or a frog...I LOATH THEM) But, I do my own thing, always have. But there are some that can't do anything without falling prey some sort of 'evil'. For instance, I can listen to music and hear a song. Others listen the same song and tell me that it was this or that...it said stuff about drugs, sex, etc....??? OK... I missed that. So now, I do try to 'censor' the music my kids listen to along with these new cartoons, it's getting worse every day. But I do think at times, like it was with me, if they would be 'changed' by it.



I agree,I wasn't changed I still like to listen to the old songs,of the 70's and 80's.I never liked Black Sabbath,and that type music before I was saved.Certainly not now.Listening to Rock,takes me back to memories of my younger day's,not younger sins.I agree with you,I don't want to go out and sin,just because I listen to an older song,or a newer one for that matter.There are some groups out there today,that I will not allow their CD's in my house though.They have the blasphemy right up front,I will not allow that.Thanks for your post,and welcome.


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## jawja_peach (Jan 14, 2009)

gtparts said:


> God bless you, young lady! I have had two friends in recent years whose wives each suffered, 1 w/ lupus and i w/ fibromyalgia. Both had it tough. I can't imagine dealing with both plus arthritis. You will be in my prayers.
> 
> Grace, peace, and joy to you and yours.



Thank you so much for your sweet words. Yes, it's very hard...Especially when they found it, well, all three are in the severe stages. I was diagnosed w/ them on my 30th bday. (inheirted it from Daddy dearest..he suffered for years and we never knew what was wrong..He wouldn't go to the Doc @ all..)Dern, like I wasn't already emotional enough, hit'n the big 3-0!! I wasn't handle'n that too well, when all this other hit. That was back at the beginning of 05. I'm on a lot of meds, and two different kinds of chemo. But you know what?? Being sick like this sure has changed my life, of course - and my families lives, but it has changed my relationship with God. I rely on God so much more now, study His word more, and have witnessed to a lot of people I would never have had the chance to witness to. So, even though I get really sick with the pain and all, I do have to praise God, because it could be worse...And being able to plant just one seed, well, its worth it all...

Blessings be upon you and yours for your caring heart~


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## jawja_peach (Jan 14, 2009)

christianhunter said:


> I agree,I wasn't changed I still like to listen to the old songs,of the 70's and 80's.I never liked Black Sabbath,and that type music before I was saved.Certainly not now.Listening to Rock,takes me back to memories of my younger day's,not younger sins.I agree with you,I don't want to go out and sin,just because I listen to an older song,or a newer one for that matter.There are some groups out there today,that I will not allow their CD's in my house though.They have the blasphemy right up front,I will not allow that.Thanks for your post,and welcome.



  Glad to be here. Have set back and read for awhile before posting. Being sick, some times it makes me a little bit 'emotional', and its hard to keep my Southern Lady Temper under control...as some will twist my words and it makes me very upset...to say the least.  So...

I listen to a lost of different music, and locally we have an 'oldies/classic Rock' station that is AWESOME!! My boys came to me a while back and said, 'Mama, could you get us a couple AC/DC shirts...' I almost fell over. They love classic rock and I'm like...Yeah BBUUDDDDYY... They could be listening to worse. I mean, really...Have you read or heard the lyrics out there now. I mean, really. But, I can't protect them from everything, and I need to pick my battles ya know. So, being a mom I have let certain music in our lives, but not others. Where does the line start and stop...where ever I say it does...(in my family). Now what others do, that's their business. And to beat a dead dog that's been dead since the what, 70's , 80's??? Gosh, that's nothing compared to some of the music of today. We can't impress our beliefs and all on others, all we can do is say...it says this, it implies that, and then let it go and worry about you (general person)and yours, ya know. I'm not a Devil worshiper. I love the Lord and my boys do too..And I know He loves us. People need to quit preaching convictions. If your ok with it...and it's ok with your God, then the rest of the world can just...well....you get the point. Have a Blessed day friend, and thanks for the support and comment...


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