# Why Not Use 168 grain Match King BTHP for Hunting?



## GunnSmokeer

In a recent thread about a member here finding a good sale on .308 Winchester Federal Gold Medal ammo featuring the famous 168 grain .30 caliber boat-tail hollowpoint "Sierra Match King" bullet, the discussion turned to the merits (or lack thereof) of using that particular load for deer hunting.  Another member said that despite the tiny hollow point in the tip of these bullets, they were still classified as "non-expanding" and therefore both unethical to use for hunting AND illegal.

I dismissed that member's comments in a rather insulting way, but vowed to look deeper into it.

And what do you know, there's quite a bit of evidence that "MaBel" was right.  

Let's summarize the evidence here, and any contradicting evidence that indicates this round is legal for rifle hunting in Georgia, and ethical and effective for hunting.

If you're curious, here's the original thread.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=691750


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## GunnSmokeer

*Manufacturer's Explanation*

Sierra makes the MatchKing bullet.  Their own loading manuals and website caution against using that bullet for hunting, because a hunting bullet is supposed to be designed for an optimum balance of combination of expansion and penetration at various distances and velocities.  But Sierra says they engineered the MatchKing bullet ONLY for accuracy, with zero consideration of how it performs after striking the target. 

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=faq

YoteDog and MaBel brought this to our attention in the other thread, and I'm just summarizing it here.   Go to the other thread for more details and screen shots from the Sierra website.


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## GunnSmokeer

*Hague Convention Compliant*

According to this 1990 memorandum of law from the U.S. Army's Judge Advocate General,  the Sierra MatchKing bullet is not an expanding bullet. While it sometimes "fragments" after tumbling in soft tissue, such fragmentation is commonly observed in standard FMJ or "ball" rifle ammunition, in many calibers used by military forces of many nations.

The memo concludes that while the Hague convention bans expanding or "dum-dum" bullets in warfare, and the U.S. has always abided by the terms of this treaty even though we were not a party to it, the 168-grain Sierra Match King bullet is not really an expanding bullet since it functions like a full metal jacket round.

http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

This memo does not discuss the evidence showing this MatchKing bullet performs like a FMJ, other than a general citation to a study about how various military rifle bullets perform when striking tissue. That study is by Dr. M. L. Fackler, "Wounding Patterns for Military Rifle Bullets," International Defense Review, January 1989, pp. 56-64, at 63.)


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## GunnSmokeer

*Martin Fackler and Peter Kokalis*

Dr. Fackler's article is available here, along with some other commentary and a reprint of the Army memo about the Hague convention and expanding or dum-dum bullets.

Dr. Fackler's article here doesn't specifically address the 168 grain Sierra MatchKing, but a follow-up comment indicates that later in a different study he did test that specific load and found it to perform similarly to FMJ ball ammo.

Peter Kokalis, a well-traveled gunwriter who has had boots on the ground in a number of combat zones around the world as part of his work for Soldier of Fortune magazine, agrees that this 168 grain Sierra matchking .308 bullet is not a great choice for even sniper / countersniper applications, since it doesn't expand soon enough.

See Kokalis' comments about 75% of the way down this set of documents, just before the military memo:

http://bajaarizona.org/fklr/fklr.html


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## GunnSmokeer

*Evan Marshall*

Evan Marshall has written a number of books on how bullets perform when striking the human body. He also runs a website called StoppingPower.net.

In a thread about Sierra's 168 grain MatchKing bullet, he wrote:

_...on people, Federal's 308M often breaks at the cannuluture and often does not exit. I've seen head shots at 100 meter + ... where the bullet broke into two pieces and failed to exit. Our outfit uses the Fed 175gr Match ... _
This is after another moderator on StoppingPower.net had written: 

_If you have Evan's 3rd book, go to the chapter on rifle bullets.  The 168gr MK literally comes apart in Human tissue/Gelatin.
Critters are thicker,have thicker and tougher hides,and generally have a higher muscle density than us humans.

That said,I have seen 2 MK's recovered from large game... _[he goes on to say that both shots resulted in greatly fragmented bullets, no large pieces only small fragments. One deer ran "several hundred yards" before dropping. This poster's opinion is that the 168 grain Sierra MatchKing is not a good choice because of lack of penetration, NOT that it zips right through like a FMJ would]


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## GunnSmokeer

*Other experiences from Hunters*

I suppose we should consider anecdotal evidence.  After-action reports from hunters in the field. Or tactical users, for that matter.

I shot a deer with a 168 gr. MatchKing BTHP, and the deer died after running about 25 yards.  The exit wound was pretty big considering how tough deer hide is, and that helps hold down the exit hole. As we skinned it, the tissue damage under the skin was massive. My bullet did not perform like a FMJ.  I only saw one exit hole and it  was directly on the opposite side of the deer's body from the impact point (broadside shot to lungs). 

From what I read all over the internet, plenty of people use this round for hunting, and it kills deer. Some people report bullet fragmenting. Some people report less tissue damage than they were hoping for.  But they all get ther venison.  Nobody is leaving wounded game in the field to die hours or days later.   

From what I have observed shooting rifle bullets into stacks of newspaper and rows of plywood (similar to what they do at "Box-O-Truth" but with plywood instead of sheetrock), a bullet that fragments can be just as good as a bullet that expands. If it fragments the right way with the right number and size of pieces, you can get enough penetration while greatly increasing the damage in tissue and widening the wound cavity. 

But  I agree that IF the a bullet fragments violently within the first few inches of penetration, it may be desirable for sniper use (for fully exposed bad guys when no barriers need to be penetrated), but it won't be good for big game hunting.

I'm still looking for more well-documented reports of actual TESTS or USE IN THE FIELD showing blocks of ballistic gelatin, or actual meat. I want to see whether this 168 grain MatchKing BTHP is an over-fragmenter, or an over-penetrating clone of a F M J, or something in between.


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## Yotedawg

GunnSmokeer said:


> I want to see whether this 168 grain MatchKing BTHP is an over-fragmenter, or an over-penetrating clone of a F M J, or something in between.



This is my opinion as to why most manufacturers(sierra included) warn not to use match bullets for hunting applications is because their bullets may react on either end of the scale as well as the middle. They may overfragment and not penetrate or possibly zip right through with little to no expansion thus not producing a sufficient wound channel for clean, ethical kills. Plus, how these bullets act may very well vary from lot to lot.

I won't doubt that some people have gotten good clean kills with them. And I won't doubt that people have seen less than optimal performance. It's enough for me though to take the manufacturers advice and not use them to hunt with when there is a multitude of great bullets designed for hunting. 

I personally use a Sierra 117gr. gameking btsp that I reload for hunting deer in my .25-06 and it's a great bullet that has never failed me. In the 20+ years I've used this bullet it has been a very solid performer.

I guess what I'm trying to say is when that time comes and that boone and crockett eleventeen pointer comes out and gives me that perfect shot, I don't want to be questioning my bullet and wondering if it's going to perform as it should.


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## GunnSmokeer

*ATK's Jell-O  tests*

A company called ATK is in the business of performance testing military and LEO tactical ammo.

They shot some .308 Federal Gold Medal match BTHP's into blocks of ordnance gelatin. 
 They compared it to soft-point hunting ammo and some other specialty antipersonnel loads in the same caliber. There are pictures of each round of ammo, each recovered bullet or the pieces / fragments of it, before-and-after size and weight measurements. And there are good pics of the wound channel and disruption in the blocks of gelatin.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/223RifleDataBook.pdf

(they also tested various .223 / 5.56mm loads, but I'm focusing on the .308 / 7.62 x51mm loads for today).


THEIR  TEST RESULTS:   The "matchking" bullets fragment. Even the heavier 175-grain versions also fragment. The biggest hunks of lead left after they fragment are only half the weight of the unfired slug. However, because this is still a pretty big hunk of metal, it will still penetrate about 20 inches deep.  That's similar to the penetration of a well-mushroomed hunting or tactical load that retains 90% or better of its weight.

MY INTERPRETATION and my conclusions from this data:

The Sierra MatchKing bullets should be good for humanely killing deer. They have deep enough penetration (on par with conventional hunting loads) and leave a big wound channel.  Maybe I would not use them on a quartering-away shot, where a few extra inches of penetration might make all the difference.  Even they don't expand into the classic mushroom shape, they do deform. They transfer their energy to the target faster and more thoroughly than a FMJ would (if that FMJ didn't fragment or tumble).

That's what this gelatin test shows me, but of course this is just one test.   I'd like to see more tests.


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## godogs57

I have used the 168 MK on numerous occasions for culling deer. I culled does on a very large local plantation for years (Legally...with permits) and the 168 was one of many bullets used. I have an accurized, match M1A that was used in that case and the 168 is a deer killer.....when used correctly! 

The 168 will give great results if you have a rifle accurate enough (and you are a good enough shot) to consistently place the bullet in the mid to lower neck on a deer. I was not going to try for head shots or any of that foolishness. If you choose to shoot for the heart/lung area, you will eventually meet with disaster. 

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation that they give "deep enough penetration (on par with conventional hunting loads)". I'm sorry but they do not...and this observation is from 15 years of "real word" experience culling more does than I will mention on this forum, not from what I read on the internet. They are, indeed, a match bullet...and will behave like a match bullet. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it can be done consistently, but only under certain circumstances. 

Think neck shots like I stated before and it will work. Heart lung shots will eventually meet with failure when the bullet impacts a shoulder blade, etc. Even then it will work from time to time...but  you will eventually meet with failure. When is it gonna fail you??? Not on that 90# doe, but on that 140-class, 225# buck you have hunted so hard for!

I only used them for culling does...that was it...when I am hunting on my own for Mr. Big Shot, I only use bullets with Nosler in their name


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## deadend

I haven't put many SMK's into animals but Berger VLD, Hornady Amax, Lapua Scenars, and Hornady bthp all kill animals graveyard dead.  I've yet to have an animal go further than 20 yards after switching to match bullets.  .243 105 Amax kills just as dead as anything else I've ever used and even exits most of the time.  The .223 75's are deadly as well.  I was a naysayer until giving them an honest run after reading a bunch of results from John Barsness and others.  I can't see using any other bullets in the future.


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## godogs57

Berger VLD's (the hunting version) and SMK's are two entirely different bullet designs. Since you are quoting Barsness, log on to the 24 hour campfire and ask his opinion of SMK's vs. VLD's! He will be glad to enlighten you.


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## deadend

godogs57 said:


> Berger VLD's (the hunting version) and SMK's are two entirely different bullet designs. Since you are quoting Barsness, log on to the 24 hour campfire and ask his opinion of SMK's vs. VLD's! He will be glad to enlighten you.



Have long been enlightened by JB.


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## godogs57

Nice guy....


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## tcward

My question is with so many good bullets designed for big game, why would anyone want to use a questionable one?


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## deadend

tcward said:


> My question is with so many good bullets designed for big game, why would anyone want to use a questionable one?



The few SMK's I've used have performed flawlessly but all the other match bullets give better accuracy.  My criteria for questionable performance has changed.


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## SCDieselDawg

I watched a tv program one time and they were interviewing an engineer for a bullet company. he said most companies did not recommend their match grade bullets for hunting due to jacket construction.  They had no need to worry about expansion so they focused making it accurate so they ended up with either a thicker than normal or a thinner than normal jacket that may not perform well on game.


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## deadend

SCDieselDawg said:


> I watched a tv program one time and they were interviewing an engineer for a bullet company. he said most companies did not recommend their match grade bullets for hunting due to jacket construction.  They had no need to worry about expansion so they focused making it accurate so they ended up with either a thicker than normal or a thinner than normal jacket that may not perform well on game.



Walt Berger said the same about his own bullets until he learned John Burns and others were using them with much success.  He actually went and tested the VLD before marketing them as a hunting bullet.  Hornady for years also had the Amax listed as a deer bullet.  Weight retention and exits are not the end all.  Every TSX I've put into a critter has not caused DRT unless a direct CNS hit happens.  Most of the time there's a recovery distance involved.  Match bullets have changed that.


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## SCDieselDawg

deadend said:


> Walt Berger said the same about his own bullets until he learned John Burns and others were using them with much success.  He actually went and tested the VLD before marketing them as a hunting bullet.  Hornady for years also had the Amax listed as a deer bullet.  Weight retention and exits are not the end all.  Every TSX I've put into a critter has not caused DRT unless a direct CNS hit happens.  Most of the time there's a recovery distance involved.  Match bullets have changed that.



So true. In all no bullet creates a DRT everytime unless a CNS hit occurs. Which is why bullet engineers have pulled their hair out trying to develop the "Ideal" deer bullet.  I strongly believe in shooting the most accurate legal bullet I can afford then practice alot and only take shots that I am confident in.


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## don

I shoot both matchkings and gamekings  , they both kill them dead..period with no difference in entry or exit holes.


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## Philbow

Actually even Berger has Hunting bullets and target bullets. Two different purposes and two different jacket specifications. But what do I know, I think regular Remington Core-lokt kills stuff just fine.


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## woods&water

Never shot a deer with a SMK, but I've shot lots of them with Hornady BTHP Match in 30 cal 168 gr and 7mm 162 gr.  They are deadly, death in a copper jacket. No "hunting" bullet I have ever tried works any better and lots didn't work as well. Just don't use them in the woods, only on fields where there is no chance of  brush. These things hit like a grenade, not like a FMJ.


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## leoparddog

woods&water said:


> . Just don't use them in the woods, only on fields where there is no chance of  brush. These things hit like a grenade, not like a FMJ.



Ah but there you see is the rub so to speak.  At closer "woods" distances the higher velocity may turn the BTHP bullet into a grenade that detonates close to the surface and not penetrate to result in a quick kill.  At longer"field" distances the lower velocity at impact changes their impact performance.  As far as a bullet "bucking brush" there is no such thing whether the twig is at 20 yards or 100 yards.  


One of the prime manufacturing goals for a hunting bullet is consistent impact performance whether the impact distance is 20 yards or 300yards.  When they make match bullets they have no goals at all for impact performance.  The bullet may kill a deer just fine or it may not, the manufacturer doesn't care and didn't design for it.

This may be a bit harsh, but I would say if you care about humane and consistent impact performance you should be shooting a bullet designed for hunting when deer hunting.  If you don't care about humane kills then shoot whatever you want.  

I used to shoot a 260Rem with 120NBTs, a good deer  bullet under most circumstances.  I had one bad experience with that bullet and stopped using it.  Same thing for shooting deer with my .223, I broke both her shoulders with a 75gr HPBT at 150yards.  She was waiting for me with her head up when I found her to finish it.  Personally a very distasteful experience.  If I had the same shot placement with a hunting bullet in 308,280 or any of my other hunting rifles she would have been DRT or at least not have suffered until I found her.

Personally, I don't like to see a deer suffer and feel that my ethics require that the deer I shoot should die quickly and as humanely as possible.  For me that means, no match bullets.

To me that small fraction of an inch difference in accuracy means nothing if the bullet fails to perform as needed on impact.


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## Bucky T

I've been seeing dead deer from my old man's .308 using Federal Gold Match 168gr boat tail hollow points and before those, Winchester Ranger's version "For Law Enforcement Use Only" written on the old red and white boxes for 20yrs.

He's never lost a animal, and has had 100% pass through on all deer from 5yds to 150yds.  So we've never had a bullet to look at after the fact.

They're devestating, and if they do run, they don't go far at all.

I've killed a few with the rounds myself, and they perform fine on whitetails.

Here's a pic of a blood trail left by a doe killed with one of these rounds last season.  She went about 40yds.  30yd shot.

All the blood trails if they run, look this way.


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## woods&water

Buckyt's picture is very typical of a blood trail from these bullets, a blind man could follow it. You won't need it though cause they don't go far. As for long range making a difference, I've taken shots  from 50 to over 400 yards (yes I was prone and I regularly shoot a lot farther) and the results were the same. Never had to look for a deer with these bullets. Put it through the boiler room and they go down with everything inside blown apart.

I've been hunting deer for over 45 years and have seen far more deer lost from a heavily constructed hunting bullet than an explosive one. In my opinion, meat on the ground trumps laboratory tests every time. I have a number of loads that I hunt with and this is the one I choose to reach out and touch them.


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## deadend

leoparddog said:


> This may be a bit harsh, but I would say if you care about humane and consistent impact performance you should be shooting a bullet designed for hunting when deer hunting.  If you don't care about humane kills then shoot whatever you want.
> 
> Personally, I don't like to see a deer suffer and feel that my ethics require that the deer I shoot should die quickly and as humanely as possible.  For me that means, no match bullets.


These two statements are precisely why I DO shoot match bullets these days.  No blood trails are needed when they never move from the spot.


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## bigreddwon

We shoot the Hornaday 75g BTHP (223)..Its a match bullet. We have culled well over 100 does on permits and well over 1000 hogs during hunts. Its devastating. We regularly put large hogs down with shots through the shield. We get guys all year long who swear before the hunt that a lil 223 wont do the job, most of them are looking for a 223 or dusting off the one they have and using the same rounds we do. They work. They do come apart, but the wound channels are very traumatic. We shoot from 20 yards to 200 yards. They DO NOT perform like FMJ's, they DO expand. This isn't a 'theory' I have. My guides and I clean hundreds of hogs a year and retrieve a whole lot of bullets. Here are some of the pictures of wounds from match bullets. The same round in a 308 - 168g.. lets just say it _wouldn't_ be less devastating.


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## Old Texan

Hope some old PETA wacko don't stumble on to this thread.....They liable to drop quicker'n one a them hogs.


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## harryrichdawg

I found a box of the Sierra 168 Grain National Match BTHP in a box of reloading stuff at a yard sale years ago.  Not knowing any better, I loaded them up and hunted with them.  Every deer I shot with them died within sight and most were DRT.  I wouldn't hesitate to load up some more of them if I had any more.


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## Chase4556

I have been thinking about getting the federal premium gold medal 69gr Sierra Matchking BTHP in .223 to use for deer hunting. I neck shoot when I use this caliber on deer. Not sure if I should use it or not. May stick with the Hornady 75gr TAP's. They sure did a number on a hog...


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## bigreddwon

Chase4556 said:


> I have been thinking about getting the federal premium gold medal 69gr Sierra Matchking BTHP in .223 to use for deer hunting. I neck shoot when I use this caliber on deer. Not sure if I should use it or not. May stick with the Hornady 75gr TAP's. They sure did a number on a hog...



I like the TAP's, I just didn't see enough difference between those and the BTHP's to justify the expense. They are several times more expensive. I get the BTHPS's for 450$ per thousand and they last about a month. A fist sized holes a fist size hole. One just cost a bunch more. I like neck shots on hogs and deer when It presents itself. Boom, THUD, plop n flop...


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## BRANDYN

godogs57 said:


> I have used the 168 MK on numerous occasions for culling deer. I culled does on a very large local plantation for years (Legally...with permits) and the 168 was one of many bullets used. I have an accurized, match M1A that was used in that case and the 168 is a deer killer.....when used correctly!
> 
> The 168 will give great results if you have a rifle accurate enough (and you are a good enough shot) to consistently place the bullet in the mid to lower neck on a deer. I was not going to try for head shots or any of that foolishness. If you choose to shoot for the heart/lung area, you will eventually meet with disaster.
> 
> I respectfully disagree with your interpretation that they give "deep enough penetration (on par with conventional hunting loads)". I'm sorry but they do not...and this observation is from 15 years of "real word" experience culling more does than I will mention on this forum, not from what I read on the internet. They are, indeed, a match bullet...and will behave like a match bullet. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it can be done consistently, but only under certain circumstances.
> 
> Think neck shots like I stated before and it will work. Heart lung shots will eventually meet with failure when the bullet impacts a shoulder blade, etc. Even then it will work from time to time...but  you will eventually meet with failure. When is it gonna fail you??? Not on that 90# doe, but on that 140-class, 225# buck you have hunted so hard for!
> 
> I only used them for culling does...that was it...when I am hunting on my own for Mr. Big Shot, I only use bullets with Nosler in their name



I know im late in the conversation but i thought id jump in to anyway.  I killed a nice 8 point in 2011 with this load, as a matter of fact it was my first deer kill with my DPMS .308 AR?  When using my Savage .308 I always use Hornady 150 gr SST's but I use Federal 168 gr Sierra Matchkings in my AR so when I grabbed my rifle I naturally grabbed the same ammo I practiced with.  
Anyway I went on my hunt and right as the light was waning two nice bucks came out pacing each other and a fight was imminent but because I was losing daylight i didnt watch very long.  It was about 125 yards, perfect shot thru both Lungs, the deer ran approximately 25 yards and the piled up.  
Now what i found was was very weird not much of an entry wound and I could not find an exit wound until after i skinned the deer where i found a very small exit wound.   Hardly any blood on either side but when i opened up the body cavity it looked like a blender 
had been turned on.

Part of me says dont ever use those to hunt with again but then again it was a swift kill. 
I also hunt with the 6.5 Grendel Hornady 123 grain Amax match and its devastating on deer.  I killed 2 8 points and 3 does for my 2012 season with this round

Bottomline I wouldnt use the bthp matchking as my go to ammo but in a pinch i wouldnt worry about it either. 

Just my two cents.


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## Bucky T

Bucky T said:


> I've been seeing dead deer from my old man's .308 using Federal Gold Match 168gr boat tail hollow points and before those, Winchester Ranger's version "For Law Enforcement Use Only" written on the old red and white boxes for 20yrs.
> 
> He's never lost a animal, and has had 100% pass through on all deer from 5yds to 150yds.  So we've never had a bullet to look at after the fact.
> 
> They're devestating, and if they do run, they don't go far at all.
> 
> I've killed a few with the rounds myself, and they perform fine on whitetails.
> 
> Here's a pic of a blood trail left by a doe killed with one of these rounds last season.  She went about 40yds.  30yd shot.
> 
> All the blood trails if they run, look this way.



A little revision to this post after this deer season.

The old man dropped 4 does this season with the 168gr Gold Match.

One doe was dropped around the 300yd mark.

His longest shot on a deer to date.


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## NCummins

That's funny, I distinctly remember being issued hollow point 5.56 in Afghanistan and turning in all my green tip ball ammo. And I must say it worked wonders over the ball.


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## rosewood

I haven't used the SMK's, but I used to use the GA Arms 168bthp ammo (before I started reloading my own), I don't know what brand bullet it was, but myself and my brother put down several deer with that bullet and I think most of them were DRT.  It was defined as a match bullet and the hollow point wasn't much to speak of.  I think when you start looking at some of the thicker skin game as well as long shots, the bullet construction has a lot to do with it, but with white tails at 100 yds or less, just about any center fire rifle caliber will do the job (although maybe not as well as some think it should, myself including).


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## gemihur

Old thread but worthy of resurrection
Big Fan here of 168 BTHPs.
Accuracy is a far better insurance policy than the mushroom factor!
Pick a point, and poke it, man.


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## Jester896

I have used the same bullet as bigreddwon and they are devastating.  I think the key to their success is the speed they are traveling.  They are slowed down somewhat and they seem to hold together longer.  They don't seem to turn to shrapnel and penetrate much deeper if not a complete pass through.

I have seen deer shot with SMKs out to 600 yards that were DRT


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## transfixer

I have used 150gr BTHP match handloads in my .308 Rem 700 for years, and put many a deer down with them, I actually prefer them over ballistic tip type ammo,  they tear up less meat, I normally shoot high top of the shoulder, to clip the spine, they do come apart enough to do damage to the spine and top of the lungs. 
       Also use a .243,  shooting 87gr BTHP loads,   they seem to come apart more than the .308 rounds,  but they are travelling a good bit faster.  Never failed to put a deer down for good.   I've always known these aren't supposed to be hunting projectiles,  but they've always worked well for me.


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## Klondike

*A Max*

Know this about Sierras but if you insist on shooting a match bullet I think consensus is the Amax is a good game killer used properly (sub 2800 fps)


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## wareagle700

Klondike said:


> Know this about Sierras but if you insist on shooting a match bullet I think consensus is the Amax is a good game killer used properly (sub 2800 fps)



Yep. The AMAX and ELD expands rapidly so make sure you pick the right one. 168-178 for 308 and 30-06 works good. I've killed deer with the 155's but they don't exit and tend to make a mess.


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## bighonkinjeep

Why Not Use 168 grain Match King BTHP for Hunting?

Because my rifle shoots Game Kings better than Match Kings. Something about the ogive I guess, but the Game Kings go in the same hole time and time again. 
I shoot Game Kings for my accuracy loads, and Nosler Accubonds for hunting loads. Those who have shot game with an Accubond know why.


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## pdsniper

I am a Board Member for the American Sniper Association and I do a lot of Ballistic testing for Law Enforcement, years ago Federal Ammunition told us years ago that the Match 168 was never intended for anything other than punching holes in paper but some how or another it got adopted by the military and Law Enforcement, probably because its accurate, about three years ago I got tasked to do gelatin test on it because we had so many documented cases of over penetration in LE sniper shootings the round that the Association recommends for LE use is either the Hornady 155 gn TAP or the RUAG limited penetration round 

when I did the tests in the Gel it was clear the Sierra 168 match and 175 Match were not what we wanted they both went a full 18 inches in the gelatin block before they had any sign of expansion and did a complete threw and threw on the block and the wound cavity was very small, both the Hornady, RUAG and Black hills rounds were far different results they looked like mini hand grenades going of in the gelatin huge wound cavity and lots of fragmentation


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## rosewood

So, pdsniper, your saying from your test, the SMK acted like a FMJ and the Hornady BTHP acted like a varmint type HP?

That is good information, especially when externally, that look near identical.

Thanks,

Rosewood


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## Jester896

on the 600 yard shot I watched, a 142SMK was used, the deer was quartering away. It entered at the rear of the rib cage, a small piece fragged off and exited almost directly across from the entry.  The remainder went out the opposing shoulder then through both sides of the neck.  It was running about 3200 fps on tests with the LabRadar.  There was a large amount of tissue damage.


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## wareagle700

rosewood said:


> So, pdsniper, your saying from your test, the SMK acted like a FMJ and the Hornady BTHP acted like a varmint type HP?
> 
> That is good information, especially when externally, that look near identical.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rosewood



Not to speak for pdsniper, but I think the 155gr TAP load uses the AMAX bullet. Basically a thin jacketed ballistic tip. I think the tip provides a more controlled expansion rather than an open tip, which can close up or deform and cause little to no expansion at all.


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## Jester896

I thought it was an FTX type bullet in TAP


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