# Communion & Footwashing



## hobbs27 (May 21, 2012)

I've been to a few and they were real spiritual, and I've been to a few where people took communion and left as the footwashing started.
 What's your  idea on church sanctioned footwashings?
Anyone like footwashings, dislike them, what does the bible say about the church having them?


----------



## gemcgrew (May 21, 2012)

I have known some Primitive Baptist that footwash. They believe this commandment is to be followed literally and spiritually. 

"If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. (John 13:14,15)


----------



## hobbs27 (May 21, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I have known some Primitive Baptist that footwash. They believe this commandment is to be followed literally and spiritually.
> 
> "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. (John 13:14,15)



There's no primitive Baptist in North Ga that I know of, but I did attend a couple of their services in South Ga with my wifes family.It was really different from Baptist churches Ive gone to. There was no music, no altar invitation, and no young people.We attended homecoming services, and I don't think they do communion and footwashing at homecoming.

There's still a few Baptist churches in these hills of north Ga that have Communion and Footwashing, and most of these churches can really get in the spirit and act a little like Holiness.

My wife use to belong to a Methodist church and she says they had a Footwashing in their bible study group...They spent a couple of nights studying the scripture on footwashing and finished up with washing one anothers feet.

Is there any denominations that just rebuke the ritual?


----------



## gemcgrew (May 21, 2012)

I think CollinsCraft77 is Primitive and lives in Dawsonville. He may be able to shed some light on the subject. I am sure they consider it an ordinance. I do not find any instruction about this ordinance in the NT. I do not have issue with it either.

I sent him a PM. Maybe he will participate. I don't want to misrepresent their position.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 21, 2012)

I have never been involved in footwashing, but I wouldn't mind.

It seems to me that the Bible gives instructions of footwashing.  The same night that Jesus instituted the Lord's supper, didn't he also institute footwashing??


----------



## gemcgrew (May 21, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> There was no music, no altar invitation, and no young people.



I can agree with no musical instruments but I don't take issue with it. I agree with no invitation. The young people worship with the adults. I don't think the PB have separate training for children. I can agree with that as well.

Maybe I am more Primitive Baptist than I thought.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 21, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I have never been involved in footwashing, but I wouldn't mind.
> 
> It seems to me that the Bible gives instructions of footwashing.  The same night that Jesus instituted the Lord's supper, didn't he also institute footwashing??



Ronnie, it's a very humbling experience to wash your brothers feet.I've participated in a few that the whole church was involved in after communion. The preacher would read scripture pertaining to footwashing and it would begin as people prayed  God may put someone on your heart to ask if you could wash their feet. It was truly amazing to watch as God would couple folks that were usually at odds with one another.
 I think it would work great for mens groups too, if your Church has a mens ministry, maybe a little study on it and what the purpose is for then bring out the wash pans and towels.I hear the old folks talk about the Holy Spirit coming down and just blessing the socks off folks {pun intended} during footwashing.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 21, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> I can agree with no musical instruments but I don't take issue with it. I agree with no invitation. The young people worship with the adults. I don't think the PB have separate training for children. I can agree with that as well.
> 
> Maybe I am more Primitive Baptist than I thought.



Maybe you are. I know they believe in predestination, and they broke away from the regular Baptists many years ago because of Sunday School. That's another thing they are against is Sunday School.
 BTW, there were no young people there because it was all elderly people and their children and grandchildren had moved out of the church. Not saying all PB are that way, but the little one I visited was.


----------



## gemcgrew (May 21, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I have never been involved in footwashing, but I wouldn't mind.



Foot washing exhibits humility. Before I would be comfortable with it, I would have to have a pedicure. Pedicure exhibits vanity.


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (May 21, 2012)

There are lots of primitive Baptists churches in north ga. I can name 6 or 7 within 30 miles of me. 

It is practiced and yes it is humbling and yes they split over free will and missions. That's why they are called Old School Baptist or Hardshell Baptists. Because they wouldn't change to free will. Free will in the Baptist church is relatively a new thing. Lol! Better not start that or you get in trouble on here.

We wash feet.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 21, 2012)

We have communion every week, but we don't do foot washing.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 21, 2012)

Several years ago I pleaded with anyone in an adult Bible class to allow me to wash their feet.  No one would allow me to do it.
But they were all willing to wash someone elses feet.

I'm probably the same.  I don't think I'd like someone to wash these ol beat up feet of mine.

And there's the point!  It's easy to humble ourselves to wash someone elses, but not so easy to allow them to humble themselves at our feet.  Odd ain't it?


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> There are lots of primitive Baptists churches in north ga. I can name 6 or 7 within 30 miles of me.
> 
> .



Lots? I've lived in Cumming,Dahlonega, and Dawsonville my whole life and I've been all over these hills and never seen one. I have heard of the hardshell baptist and always wondered what that meant, so it's a primitive Baptist? 
Where's the closest PB to 400 &  53? 
Im interested too in how often you wash feet, and the rules, such as, can men wash womens feet? Their wives feet, or vice versa?


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Several years ago I pleaded with anyone in an adult Bible class to allow me to wash their feet.  No one would allow me to do it.
> But they were all willing to wash someone elses feet.
> 
> I'm probably the same.  I don't think I'd like someone to wash these ol beat up feet of mine.
> ...



Maybe it's a sign of the times.Are we becoming too proud of a people?If we are worried about how our feet look, just think of our clothes, I like to dress nice for the Lords day, but some churches are all suit and tie.
I've often wondered if every man in the church is suit and tie, well... what does that say about welcoming in "anyone"
I would hate to know my clothing made someone feel too uncomfortable to walk in to Gods house and hear the Gospel.


----------



## JB0704 (May 22, 2012)

I have witnessed a footwashing or two, and honestly, it was very uncomfortable to watch.  This was in a "contemporary" church, where folks are always looking to be the most "spiritual," as long as it's cool.  I knew the fella doing the washing, and wasn't a "humble" man.  Came across as an act (I know, I shouldn't judge people's heart).  Either way, we do not need foot washing like they did then, we all have socks and shoes.

I wonder if the Bible was set in modern times, what the contemporary equivalent of footwashing would be?


----------



## pstrahin (May 22, 2012)

I do not believe that footwashing was instituted as part of our Worship to God.  I believe it is a testiment of your love to the recipient.  It was also a cultural custom, such as, "greeted with a holy kiss".  Both very loving and humble acts, but not related to our Worship to God.


----------



## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2012)

How does the Great Commision  work with the "no invitation" of predestination?


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I have witnessed a footwashing or two, and honestly, it was very uncomfortable to watch.  This was in a "contemporary" church, where folks are always looking to be the most "spiritual," as long as it's cool.  I knew the fella doing the washing, and wasn't a "humble" man.  Came across as an act (I know, I shouldn't judge people's heart).  Either way, we do not need foot washing like they did then, we all have socks and shoes.
> 
> I wonder if the Bible was set in modern times, what the contemporary equivalent of footwashing would be?



I don't like (make believe) or spiritual entertainment. My God is real and needs no help from man.The Spirit will fall on us when God decides, not man.
You make an interesting point too on the modern equivalent to foot washing.
I would like to hear your opinion on anointing with oil, as referenced in James 5:14. Do you think this should be practiced in the Church today?


----------



## gemcgrew (May 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> How does the Great Commision  work with the "no invitation" of predestination?



We do not coax or coerce sinners into accepting Jesus. The Holy Spirit reveals the sinner and brings the sinner. Christ does not beg sinners for acceptance but sinners in need of mercy do beg him for acceptance. (Matt 8:2,3)

I was trained at an early age how to be a people saver. I did not have difficulty in getting professions of faith from folks. I convinced them that they were something they weren't and that they needed something they didn't. In my eagerness to save people, I ran out ahead of the Holy Spirit and tried to perform a miracle that I couldn't.

The result of this coercing is filling churches with goats that think they are sheep.


----------



## JB0704 (May 22, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> I would like to hear your opinion on anointing with oil, as referenced in James 5:14. Do you think this should be practiced in the Church today?



Well, my opinion is about worthless on any subject around here.  Your asking is much appreciated.....

I think we see a lot of cultural influence in some of the letters.  For instance, you can see Paul telling Timothy to bring his "cloak and scrolls" before winter.  In modern times, we have "coats and books."  That personal message has made it's way through generations and is now a picture of one Christian asking another Christian for help.  Even though a person today has likely never read a scroll, they get the general idea.

For me, I see much of the same with the annointing with oil.  I think it may have been a ceremonious act they did at the time.  For me, and I am known to be wrong about most things, I think the big idea is to get the Elders together and pray for the afflicted.  If we feel we are being told to wash feet or annoint with oil, then that is what we should do. But, I am not certain that is the primary point.



> *James 5:13 *Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. *14 *Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.


----------



## JB0704 (May 22, 2012)

2000 yrs ago, it would seem washing a person's feet was an unselfish act to show another believer, as in, I am here to help with anything.  Annointing with oil could have been seen as an act displaying reverence for the moment, remember, these folks dumped ashes on themselves when they were upset (we no longer practice that).  

Could it be that the principle is to be there for each other's needs as Christians?  Perhaps we are, when seeking God for the afflicted, supposed figure out how we demonstrate our reverence.  Wasn't oil expensive in the time of the NT?  I dunno......maybe it's asking for a little sacrifice to prove sincerity.


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (May 22, 2012)

There's a congregation in jasper and dahlonega. I will have to get their names as I don't remember them. There's three off McFarland road. Boiling springs, oak grove(?), Forsyth. There's one of hwy 20 right at hwy75. I will get the names tonight


----------



## gemcgrew (May 22, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> I would like to hear your opinion on anointing with oil, as referenced in James 5:14. Do you think this should be practiced in the Church today?



Where it is referenced in James 5:14, I do not see anything more than applying medicine to the sick. In the OT however, I see oil as a type or picture of the Holy Spirit.


----------



## Keebs (May 22, 2012)

There is even a difference in the "Hardshell" Primitive Baptists & Progressive Primitive Baptists............ Hardshell is no music and a bit more "stricter", Progessive (of which I am) has piano music but when we have Communion, we conduct the service without (mainly so the piano player can participate) and with candle light.  When it comes time to wash feet, the men move to one side & the women to the other, we have had guests, but they do not participate, you have to be a member (I think that's what I was told when I was a lot younger)....... it is a VERY humbling experience, most times it would be me with my Mama or maybe one of my sisters, on some occasions it was one of the other lady's of the church, but it is still a sweet, sweet ceremony.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> We do not coax or coerce sinners into accepting Jesus. The Holy Spirit reveals the sinner and brings the sinner. Christ does not beg sinners for acceptance but sinners in need of mercy do beg him for acceptance. (Matt 8:2,3)
> 
> I was trained at an early age how to be a people saver. I did not have difficulty in getting professions of faith from folks. I convinced them that they were something they weren't and that they needed something they didn't. In my eagerness to save people, I ran out ahead of the Holy Spirit and tried to perform a miracle that I couldn't.
> 
> The result of this coercing is filling churches with goats that think they are sheep.



I went to a church as a child that did things like this. There was 4 or 5 old ladies that would seek out kids that had never been saved and go to them at invitation and try to persuade them to the altar.I pushed them away several times and told them I was fine. One night in a revival meeting in a little Baptist church at the Forsyth,Cherokee,Pickens county line I heard preaching like I've never heard, and I felt something I had never felt.At invitation there was a drawing on me that I could not push away, I realized that night that if for no other person Jesus died for me, and made one step out into that aisle, and made my way down to that altar.After a little talk with Jesus my burden was lifted and I came up and saw the most beautiful people I've ever seen, the whole church looked new, and I've never felt so good and so close to God as I did that night.
 The next week back to the church I had been attending and here they came at altar call. The said to me, "God told me to come to you and tell you that your lost." I replied, " I don't know why He told you that because He just saved my soul the other night."  The ladies smiled and said, "Well that's great." and walked away.
 I think they mean well, but it's very dangerous to get in the way of God and a lost souls salvation.I have come to learn that churches like that are dead in spirit, and have no drawing power.Those people remind me of the story of Uzza when he reached his hand out to stop the ark from falling off the oxen. God struck him dead, God doesn't need our help, just our obedience.
To this day, I will not sit in a church that tries to coerce people into being saved, whether that is dragging someone to an altar, asking them to quote a prayer, or sign a card. Salvation has to be between the sinner and God, it is personal.


----------



## gemcgrew (May 22, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> To this day, I will not sit in a church that tries to coerce people into being saved, whether that is dragging someone to an altar, asking them to quote a prayer, or sign a card. Salvation has to be between the sinner and God, it is personal.



Well said. I have been to services where they have 20 minutes of singing, 15 minutes of preaching, 5 minutes of a sad story about a boy and his dog, followed by 20 minutes of invitation. 20 minutes of "I have decided to follow Jesus", "Will you decide now to follow Jesus?"


----------



## centerpin fan (May 22, 2012)

Regarding the OP, what does communion have to do with foot washing?  I've never seen the two linked before.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Regarding the OP, what does communion have to do with foot washing?  I've never seen the two linked before.



The two are linked in many churches.The last church I belonged to had communion and footwashing twice a year.


----------



## centerpin fan (May 22, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> The two are linked in many churches.The last church I belonged to had communion and footwashing twice a year.



Interesting.  

As I said:



centerpin fan said:


> We have communion every week, but we don't do foot washing.


----------



## Tim L (May 22, 2012)

CollinsCraft77 said:


> There's a congregation in jasper and dahlonega. I will have to get their names as I don't remember them. There's three off McFarland road. Boiling springs, oak grove(?), Forsyth. There's one of hwy 20 right at hwy75. I will get the names tonight



Your right; there are lots of primitive baptist churches in Georgia; most that I have seen are in older buildings built from 1900 to 1950.  Some are so old they still have the old outhouses on the edge of the yard.  I have alot of relatives buried in the Primitive Baptist Church outside Banning (Antioch PBC); last I checked they still had outhouses.  I suspect the PBC's numbers have declined from what it used to be; even when I was young they only had services at Antioch once a month; from what I understand today some PBC's only meet a few times a year....But from the number of old Primitive Baptist Churches that still maintain their buildings and cemetaries; lots of folks used to attend them.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 22, 2012)

Tim L said:


> Your right; there are lots of primitive baptist churches in Georgia;


IN GA probably, not in North GA. There's not one in all of Dawson county.


----------



## gemcgrew (May 22, 2012)

I thought Primitive Baptist considered foot washing an ordinance but I was wrong.

Ordinances
Primitive Baptists believe there are two ordinances necessary to be kept by all sister churches in order to maintain church fellowship; Baptism and the Lord's supper.
Baptism is by immersion only.  Baptism by scripturally ordained Primitive Baptist elders is the only baptism which is recognized or permitted in Primitive Baptist Churches.
The Lord's Supper (Communion) is served with unleavened bread and wine.  Unleavened bread and wine is used because that would have been the only bread and fruit of the vine available the night the Lord instituted the ordinance.
Washing the saints feet is commonly kept but is not generally considered a condition for inter-church fellowship, though it may be required for membership in a local church.
Women wearing a head covering is kept by a very small minority and is not considered a condition for church fellowship.

http://www.oldschoolbaptist.org/DoctrineAndPractice.htm#Primitive_Baptist_Practice


----------



## Artfuldodger (May 22, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> We do not coax or coerce sinners into accepting Jesus. The Holy Spirit reveals the sinner and brings the sinner. Christ does not beg sinners for acceptance but sinners in need of mercy do beg him for acceptance. (Matt 8:2,3)
> 
> I was trained at an early age how to be a people saver. I did not have difficulty in getting professions of faith from folks. I convinced them that they were something they weren't and that they needed something they didn't. In my eagerness to save people, I ran out ahead of the Holy Spirit and tried to perform a miracle that I couldn't.
> 
> The result of this coercing is filling churches with goats that think they are sheep.


 
I would agree not to use too much begging. I would think it is like getting an alcoholic into rehab. They have to want to get help otherwise it won't work.


----------



## mtnwoman (May 22, 2012)

gemcgrew said:


> We do not coax or coerce sinners into accepting Jesus. The Holy Spirit reveals the sinner and brings the sinner. Christ does not beg sinners for acceptance but sinners in need of mercy do beg him for acceptance. (Matt 8:2,3)
> 
> I was trained at an early age how to be a people saver. I did not have difficulty in getting professions of faith from folks. I convinced them that they were something they weren't and that they needed something they didn't. In my eagerness to save people, I ran out ahead of the Holy Spirit and tried to perform a miracle that I couldn't.
> 
> The result of this coercing is filling churches with goats that think they are sheep.



I agree, except for one thing. I'm the voice of the Holy Spirit who carries the great commission. I've never coerced or never was taught to coerce anyone. I was taught to tell them about Jesus and the Holy Spirit will do His work.

I also believe sinners in need of mercy, seek Christ, I don't believe they have to beg for a gift already given to them. Even though for my ownself, sometimes I do feel like I'm begging....not for salvation, but sometimes for deliverance.


----------



## mtnwoman (May 22, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I would agree not to use too much begging. I would think it is like getting an alcoholic into rehab. They have to want to get help otherwise it won't work.



I agree.


----------



## mtnwoman (May 22, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> I went to a church as a child that did things like this. There was 4 or 5 old ladies that would seek out kids that had never been saved and go to them at invitation and try to persuade them to the altar.I pushed them away several times and told them I was fine. One night in a revival meeting in a little Baptist church at the Forsyth,Cherokee,Pickens county line I heard preaching like I've never heard, and I felt something I had never felt.At invitation there was a drawing on me that I could not push away, I realized that night that if for no other person Jesus died for me, and made one step out into that aisle, and made my way down to that altar.After a little talk with Jesus my burden was lifted and I came up and saw the most beautiful people I've ever seen, the whole church looked new, and I've never felt so good and so close to God as I did that night.
> The next week back to the church I had been attending and here they came at altar call. The said to me, "God told me to come to you and tell you that your lost." I replied, " I don't know why He told you that because He just saved my soul the other night."  The ladies smiled and said, "Well that's great." and walked away.
> I think they mean well, but it's very dangerous to get in the way of God and a lost souls salvation.I have come to learn that churches like that are dead in spirit, and have no drawing power.Those people remind me of the story of Uzza when he reached his hand out to stop the ark from falling off the oxen. God struck him dead, God doesn't need our help, just our obedience.
> To this day, I will not sit in a church that tries to coerce people into being saved, whether that is dragging someone to an altar, asking them to quote a prayer, or sign a card. Salvation has to be between the sinner and God, it is personal.



OMGoodness. I went to an extremely beautiful but very boring church growing up. Southern Baptist Assoc. We had sunday school and training union by age groups, which is where I learned all the bible stories. I don't ever remember anyone 'pushing' me to do anything. I knew when it was time for me to walk the aisle and it took me a few weeks to go. I knew that I'd already been saved at the time I decided to do it, I was just too shy to go down there. I finally went and I guess it was just a public profession with witnesses and all. I always went to regular church with my mamaw after sunday school. But this was a decision I remember making alone. I didn't even tell her I was gonna go down. And I know it is just like baptism or communion just a profession of faith, and I don't see a thing wrong with it. Make fun if you like. But for me I remember the moment, the second, I stepped sideways in the aisle, I purposely sat on the end of the pew on that day. That was 51 yrs ago and I still remember how I felt, how I felt stepping out into faith or launching out into the deep, for as much as a 12 year old could.

What I learned in childrens church is invaluable to me, because I barely got a clue in regular church about anything, too much meat for someone to forcefeed a child who needed milk first.

I said boring in the beginning because I didn't realize how simple everything was then. I revisted after many many years gone astray. It was a perfect church to get the basics from, a good foundation with child size bible study instead of sitting in big church wishing you could hurry home and watch the 3 stooges because you certainly didn't know what was going on in here.

If you think your children don't need sunday school or childrens church, quiz them when they get home after sitting under a meatfeedin' preacher and see what the child got out of it.

I'm sorry for any or you who felt like you were coerced into loving Jesus, or coerced in performing a ritual of walking down the aisle, getting baptized or anything else and you didn't understand salvation.

That was never my experience and I'm thankful for it. I've been to quite a few churches since then and have never had old ladies seeking out my grandchildren to get them saved.

Most all churches I've been to in the past 20 years, don't do an alter call as such. I guess you wait until you're baptized to make it a public profession. I don't see anything wrong with either.


----------



## mtnwoman (May 22, 2012)

I always thought footwashing had something to do with washing the daily dirt (sin) off our feet. As Jesus feet were dirty because He wore sandals and His feet would be dirty every day.(not from sin) And our feet will be dirty every day with sin and that our brothers and sisters help us with our burden of sin by washing our feet....as a service, as our servant, for us to be a servant of not only Christ but a servant of man, too...and to be humble doing it.


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (May 23, 2012)

I live in Dawson of course and your right, they do not have one. But here is an interesting thing. Go to a lot of the oldest missionary baptist churches and pull their articles of faith. You will see that unless they were finally changed, they will read exactly like a primitive baptists. It's pretty funny.

I would consider myself an ultra progressive primitive baptist. However, I always did like the fa sa la singings whe I was younger. But maybe we should start one in Dawson County. However they are in Lumpkin, Cherokee, Pickens, Forsyth, and Fulton, and bartow counties.


----------



## CollinsCraft77 (May 23, 2012)

I live in Dawson of course and your right, they do not have one. But here is an interesting thing. Go to a lot of the oldest missionary baptist churches and pull their articles of faith. You will see that unless they were finally changed, they will read exactly like a primitive baptists. It's pretty funny.

I would consider myself an ultra progressive primitive baptist. However, I always did like the fa sa la singings whe I was younger. But maybe we should start one in Dawson County. However they are in Lumpkin, Cherokee, Pickens, Forsyth, and Fulton, and bartow counties.


----------



## jrmmh1215 (May 27, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> IN GA probably, not in North GA. There's not one in all of Dawson county.


We have two in gilmer county. My wife's family belongs there I couldn't tell you anything about them or their beliefs. However being a Baptist preacher I find foot washing extremely important it goes hand in hand with communion and all that they represent to me is christ him self. You know I think about that night of the Passover he was already preparing to sacrifice him self for our pardon and yet he still humbles himself to wash the feet of his servants,  to me that is love beyond measure and the least we can do is to perform these acts in rememberance of our lord and saviour Jesus christ. It just a small payment of a debt that we can never payoff


----------



## Mako22 (May 28, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Is there any denominations that just rebuke the ritual?



Most Independent fundemental baptist churches dissagree with foot washing. Foot washing had more to do with the cultural traditions of the day as it was customery to have a servant wash the feet of guest when they entered a house. This had to do with the fact that ones feet were covered in dirt after a good walk in sandles on the dirt roads of the day. Jesus used this common practice that they all observed as an illustration in humbleness. I believe that we have no command as an ordianance to foot wash in the church. I also believe that when we publicaly announce a foot washing service we loose any claim to humbleness that we may have had.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 28, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Most Independent fundemental baptist churches dissagree with foot washing. Foot washing had more to do with the cultural traditions of the day as it was customery to have a servant wash the feet of guest when they entered a house. This had to do with the fact that ones feet were covered in dirt after a good walk in sandles on the dirt roads of the day. Jesus used this common practice that they all observed as an illustration in humbleness. I believe that we have no command as an ordianance to foot wash in the church. I also believe that when we publicaly announce a foot washing service we loose any claim to humbleness that we may have had.




Now there's something to think about, and I think your comment has given me a different perspective on foot washing.

Foot washing was not the instituting of a ritual whereas people with clean feet came together so they could wash each others clean feet.

It was an example of how each person is to humble themselves and be willing to do the lowliest of tasks in order to help their neighbor.

Thanks for the good comment.


----------



## Bkeepr (May 28, 2012)

My mother in law goes to Bethany Primitive Baptist in John's Creek or Alpharetta??? led by brother Gus Harter.  I really like to hear him speak, he is very knowledgeable and went to Methodist Seminary before becoming a PB.  He really practices what he preaches, went away to the Philipines to start new churches and an orphanage before coming back here.  He and his wife are in their 70's and have at least 10 adopted kids.  I was raised Catholic and I enjoy seeing the differences and similarities between us.  And it is nice to go into another Christian church and not get called a heretic or non-Christian.


----------



## Bkeepr (May 28, 2012)

My mother-in-law has been a PB her whole life.  She grew up in rural south Alabama.  Back in the day any one particular PB church would only have service one Sunday a month due to farming, but you could go to other neighboring PB churches.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 28, 2012)

Bkeepr said:


> I was raised Catholic and I enjoy seeing the differences and similarities between us.  And it is nice to go into another Christian church and not get called a heretic or non-Christian.



I've seen this myself and felt it was out of place.I feel like anyone that comes into any Church should hear about Jesus and let the spirit take over from there.
 A few years ago I went to a revival meeting one week and watched as an entire family was saved during that week. They were all Catholic but confessed Christ had saved them and joined that Baptist Church and were Baptized.

BTW, buzz me anytime you want to talk bees.Im keeping about 25 colonies this year.


----------



## Mako22 (May 28, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Now there's something to think about, and I think your comment has given me a different perspective on foot washing.
> 
> Foot washing was not the instituting of a ritual whereas people with clean feet came together so they could wash each others clean feet.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ronnie, to define it a little further the custom of washing the feet was a servants job and so when Christ washed their feet he showed his humbleness. Imagine God himself doing the job of a slave by washing the feet of dirty sinners who should have been washing his feet.


----------



## Mako22 (May 28, 2012)

Bkeepr said:


> My mother-in-law has been a PB her whole life.  She grew up in rural south Alabama.  Back in the day any one particular PB church would only have service one Sunday a month due to farming, but you could go to other neighboring PB churches.



Most PB churches that I know about still only have service once a month or so.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 28, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Now there's something to think about, and I think your comment has given me a different perspective on foot washing.
> 
> Foot washing was not the instituting of a ritual whereas people with clean feet came together so they could wash each others clean feet.
> 
> ...




I need to add one more thing.  
I would never speak negatively about anyone who practices foot washing or attended a church who does it.
I would be more than willing to participate myself.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 28, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Most Independent fundemental baptist churches dissagree with foot washing. Foot washing had more to do with the cultural traditions of the day as it was customery to have a servant wash the feet of guest when they entered a house. This had to do with the fact that ones feet were covered in dirt after a good walk in sandles on the dirt roads of the day. Jesus used this common practice that they all observed as an illustration in humbleness. I believe that we have no command as an ordianance to foot wash in the church. I also believe that when we publicaly announce a foot washing service we loose any claim to humbleness that we may have had.




JB0704 brought up a similar idea of footwashing, saying it was a practice done by folks of that time for obvious reasons. I have no problem with that, and understand it well as The Bible is recorded for us to read but most of the book is written to the people of that time.
 A couple of issues I have right now as I'm asking for help to understand even more.
 In reference to the example of footwashing Jesus had just performed on His disciples  
 John 13: 17  If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

and

The reference in 1Timothy that the first churches must have practiced or atleast acknowledged the importance.

1Timothy5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children,if she have lodged strangers,if she have washed the saints' feet,if she have relieved the afflicted,if she have diligently followed every good work.

These were requirements of a widow to recieve church assistance, along with being 60 + years old, and not ordinances....but it does mention footwashing.

So...Im left awaiting an answer from the HS, but of all the things that are done in churches these days, I dont think the Lord would frown on Footwashing as an ordinance, and Im also not sure He blesses them anymore than He does in normal worship.


----------



## Madman (May 29, 2012)

*Luke 7: 44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.*
*Matthew 20: 24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. 25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”*

*John 13: 6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” 8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”*


My church offers a “foot washing” service on Maundy Thursday during Holy Week.

It is nothing more than an expression of servant hood.   Men wash men’s feet, women wash women’s.  I have washed the feet of both my sons more than once.  

“As husbands and fathers 
we should not lead with the paradigm of the sword and scepter,
but with the paradigm of headship with towel and basin.”					
Donald T. Williams


----------



## StriperAddict (May 29, 2012)

Madman said:


> *Luke 7: 44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.*
> *Matthew 20: 24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. 25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”*
> 
> *John 13: 6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” 8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”*
> ...


 
I've been to one and it was a profound experience.  Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## thedeacon (May 29, 2012)

Foot washing was never meant to be an act of worship, it was very simply an act of graciousness that was afforded to a visitor to your home. As in another post said, the roads were dusty and your feet were tired after journeys so the host would get you a pan of water and sometimes even wash your feet. It was a humbleing act.

I would not take part in a footwashing in a church service as part of the worship, it would be meaningless. If you wanted to do something for me when I visit your home I had much rather you wash my hair, it feels much better to have my head washed, my feet are tickleish.


----------



## Paymaster (May 29, 2012)

John.13
[1] Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
[2] And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
[3] Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
[4] He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
[5] After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
[6] Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
[7] Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
[8] Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
[9] Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
[10] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
[11] For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
[12] So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
[13] Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
[14] If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
[15] For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
[16] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
[17] If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
We have always had Communion and Footwashing in the same service. It has been carried on this way in our Association of Churches since September 27 1884 when our Assoc. was formed.
I am and have always been a Foot Washing Baptist. We have A Communion Service several times a year. I was in one this Past Sunday. We have the Communion Table set with unleavened bread and wine. Two Preachers sit at the table. Each one has a part.The first part is the bread.One of the Preachers stands and speaks of the symbolism of the bread which is served to the congregation by two Deacons after one of the Deacons kneels and Prays that the Lord would Bless it. Similarly the other Preacher stands and speaks of the meaning of the wine. A Deacon kneels and Prays for the Blessing of the wine and other Deacons then serve it.After all the congregation is served both the bread and the wine. A preacher stands and speaks of Jesus washing the Disciple's feet. He then wraps a cloth towel around his waist and pours water  into a basin and picks someone and asks to wash their feet. At this point the congregation pairs up and washes each others feet. It is one of the most Spiritual and humbling services we have. Never a dry eye in the house.


----------



## hobbs27 (May 29, 2012)

Paymaster said:


> [17] If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
> 
> It is one of the most Spiritual and humbling services we have. Never a dry eye in the house.



No matter what you think of footwashing. This is Good.


----------



## Ronnie T (May 29, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> No matter what you think of footwashing. This is Good.



I agree.
Very humbling.
But who's more humbled, the washer or the one having feet washed?  I have a feeling that both are very humbling.


----------



## Paymaster (May 30, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I agree.
> Very humbling.
> But who's more humbled, the washer or the one having feet washed?  I have a feeling that both are very humbling.



It has been my experience,that both being humbling,having your feet washed by another Brother is the most humbling. It is impossible to explain or for me to express the rich feeling that comes over you during this service. I can only say it is an intense Spiritual feeling of joy.


----------



## Artfuldodger (May 30, 2012)

The things Jesus required of his disciples might not be required of us but could still be practiced. It would help us in being more Christlike to follow the requirements of the disciples.


----------



## grouper throat (May 30, 2012)

If you asked me personally what I think of it as a Christian I wouldn't know what to say, but I would think it pertains more to an act of humbleness and kindness back in their time. 

Logically; Open sandals and alot of walking= dirty feet. Today that's not much of an issue with modern shoes. 

I'm kind of sticking to the requirements and it's not one of them. 

Anyway, there's still plenty of PBC churches around N Florida because of the scattered logging camps that use to populate the area. They meet rarely and all still have outhouses. I have been to several PBC churches as my great grandmother in South Ga was one and I went with her frequently when we visited her when I was a kid. Even to a kid back then, you could tell there was not many young to middle aged members. Most were older people. 

We actually have a PBC church in the middle of my dog hunting club.


----------



## rockman7 (Jun 14, 2012)

as full gospel we practise not only washing feet but annointing with oil.

we have no certain times or dates to do it. sometimes it just happens. other times if a message is on humility or something its a scheduled thing.

if we have a ordination service or elect a deacon the olive oil come out. this too is nothing planned.

if you have a problem with a brother or sister in Christ i promise you if you go to them and offer to wash thier feet your relationship with them will change. even if they don't accept you perception of them will change if done in true humility


----------

