# home protection hand gun



## fishingtiger

Not really hunting related but I am looking for a pistol to keep in the house. I live in downtown ATL and things seem to be heating up around here with the violent crime. 

I wanted to hear some recommendations. I shot a s&w 357 revolver this past weekend but i am not sure if i should get a revolver or not.


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## siberian1

I would get a revolver if you have never had formal handgun training. Autos can be messy at times.  The 357 is probably the best manstopper ever invented for handguns but A 38 would work just as nice with less noise/recoil.  Just make sure you take a safety course if this is your first experience with a handgun.


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## robertyb

For home protection it is hard to beat a 12 gauge shotgun. Cheaper than a handgun usually and hard to miss with. Get a Mossberg 500 pump and put a pistol grip on it.


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## dertiedawg

357 is too much if you live in an apartment.  You don't want anything going through any walls and hurting someone innocent in another apartment.  I prefer a handgun as it is easier to manuever in confined spaces and in the dark.  In a house I prefer a 357mag, or 44mag, you can run but you cant hide.  If your in my house (not apartment) and dont belong there, I want something that will get you from behind the wall.  Revolver is best for the inexperienced or someone who doesn't shoot often.  Its a simple point and shoot.  Pistol can be a little tricky in a high stress situation if you dont familiarize yourself with it often.  In an apartment you can use 38s in a 357 gun or 9MM.  Just be careful with shooting in confined spaces with 357 and up because permanent hearing loss is likely.  If your in a situation where you have to use it, hearing loss is the last thing on your mind.
DDawg


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## RBaldree

*best gun?*

I would think a riot control 12 gauge.  Nothing quite like the sound of someone racking a pump to change someone's mind about entry.

Keep in mind the 10 foot rule, in general someone with a knife can get to you before you can draw and shoot a pistol accurately from inside 10 feet, and that is if you are READY!  The other thing to consider is the passthrough of the rounds you are going to fire.  Is it going to pass through to the next apartment or house over?.


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## sweet 16

38 Revolver, 380 Auto. Hollow Point Bullets


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## boneboy96

Taurus Judge loaded with 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC in that order!


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## fishingtiger

*thanks for the input!*

I read a few other threads and it seems like a SW357 revolver is what I need. I shot one of these at the range last weekend and it felt pretty good. 

I already have a loaded 12 guage but that honestly feels a bit clunky inside. I would rather have something by my bed that I can get to quickly. 

Thanks again for the feedback! Hopefully I never have to use it for self defense.


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## Cleankill47

I would suggest a .357 Mag revolver with a 4" barrel, and you can use .38 loads in it. There is very little that can happen to a revolver to mess it up or make it unable to shoot when you need it. Plus, it's simple. Usually, there are no safeties, or they're all internal and you don't have to worry about them. If you want a semi-atuomatic pistol, I would say to go with a Glock. Some people enjoy talking down about Glocks, because they don't shoot as well as their match-grade full-sized 1911, but the simple fact is that they are the simplest and most user-friendly pistols you could ever use when you need to. All you have to do is chamber a round and you're ready to go.

There are several kinds of good self-protection rounds you can get, the one I would suggest would be some Speer Gold Dots, Hornady TAP, or some Cor Bon DPX rounds, although there are several others out there that people have tried and liked. Some, like the Glaser safety slugs and the ExtremeShock rounds are said to not penetrate walls as well, while at the same time having a devastating effect of soft tissue.


The most important thing to do is practice. Practice with cheap ammo, because if you do nothing but practice with your defense ammo, you won't be inclined to do it much because of the cost. But, you must familiarize yourself with how your particular handgun shoots with whatever defense ammo you select, so try it out from time to time. Whenever I practice, I shoot about 30 rounds of defense ammo, and I do it last, after the ball ammo. That way, the last thing I use is the defense ammo, and it tends to stick in my mind should I need to use it. I don't know about everyone else, but it works for me.

I am lucky enough that my Glock 21 shoots Winchester SXZ hollow points not only to the same point of aim as my ball ammo, but also with much tighter groups, so I know that I can practice with the ball ammo and not lose sleep over what my pistol will do when I need it. Make sure you know what your gun/ammo combination can and can't do. 

Good luck.


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## MustangMAtt30

RBaldree said:


> I would think a riot control 12 gauge.  Nothing quite like the sound of someone racking a pump to change someone's mind about entry.
> 
> Keep in mind the 10 foot rule, in general someone with a knife can get to you before you can draw and shoot a pistol accurately from inside 10 feet, and that is if you are READY!  The other thing to consider is the passthrough of the rounds you are going to fire.  Is it going to pass through to the next apartment or house over?.



That would be the 30 foot rule.


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## Doc_Holliday23

12 ga pump shotgun w/ 18-20" barrel and extended magazine.
.357 mag revolver with 4" barrel.

What make and model doesn't matter as long as you get something that reliably goes boom everytime.


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## dchfm123

dertiedawg said:


> 357 is too much if you live in an apartment.  You don't want anything going through any walls and hurting someone innocent in another apartment.  I prefer a handgun as it is easier to manuever in confined spaces and in the dark.  In a house I prefer a 357mag, or 44mag, you can run but you cant hide.  If your in my house (not apartment) and dont belong there, I want something that will get you from behind the wall.  Revolver is best for the inexperienced or someone who doesn't shoot often.  Its a simple point and shoot.  Pistol can be a little tricky in a high stress situation if you dont familiarize yourself with it often.  In an apartment you can use 38s in a 357 gun or 9MM.  Just be careful with shooting in confined spaces with 357 and up because permanent hearing loss is likely.  If your in a situation where you have to use it, hearing loss is the last thing on your mind.
> DDawg



I would get the .357 revolver, especialy if you are new to handguns.  They are failsafe and compact.  You can shoot .38's through it if you want and they are cheaper at the range.

Dont worry about the .357 going through the walls and into someone else's apt unless your apt is 30+ years old.  All multi family dwellings are required to be seperated by a minimum of 4.5 inches of shaft wall plus the drywall which the .357 wont penetrate.


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## rabbithound

You are saying a .357 will not penetrate drywall? I am thinking mine would go through several layers of it .....never tried it though honestly. But I am sure I wouldnt be on the other side of it when someone was testing your theory. Not trying to be smarty pants here ....but I seriously doubt that a .357 will get stopped by drywall. 

just my .02 ..... 

I will be trying this out on the next trip to the range or hunting club though. 

I gotts to know


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## dchfm123

rabbithound said:


> You are saying a .357 will not penetrate drywall? I am thinking mine would go through several layers of it .....never tried it though honestly. But I am sure I wouldnt be on the other side of it when someone was testing your theory. Not trying to be smarty pants here ....but I seriously doubt that a .357 will get stopped by drywall.
> 
> just my .02 .....
> 
> I will be trying this out on the next trip to the range or hunting club though.
> 
> I gotts to know



Boy, you sure are observant.

It will penetrate drywall but if your read my entire post you would see where I stated that there is 4.5 inches of shaftwall which is extremly dense and fiber re-enforced drywall that the bullet will not penetrate.


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## Cleankill47

I would love to know that for sure before assuming it. Seems like a test is in order! And it would seem that some types of ammo would have a better chance of breking through that than others.

Anybody have any shaftwall laying around that they wouldn't mind sending me for a test fire? I happen to have a 4" barrelled Taurus in .357 Mag that I wouldn't mind trying to put a few rounds through a test medium with.....


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## Sterlo58

*Either*

Springfield XDM 40
12 Gauge 000 buckshot


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## one_shot

Taurus Judge


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## dchfm123

Cleankill47 said:


> I would love to know that for sure before assuming it. Seems like a test is in order! And it would seem that some types of ammo would have a better chance of breking through that than others.
> 
> Anybody have any shaftwall laying around that they wouldn't mind sending me for a test fire? I happen to have a 4" barrelled Taurus in .357 Mag that I wouldn't mind trying to put a few rounds through a test medium with.....




I am saying this from experience.  It will not penetrate 3 pieces, it will go through 2 but not 3.  The walls in the individual apartment will however not stop them.  Use glaser safty slugs for in home self defence if you are worried about shooting someone in another unit.


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## OkieHunter

I have a 1911 in my bedside table but my favorite is an 870 Pump with extended tube that is in a rack attached to the side of the bed. Everyone knows the sound of a pump shatgun and you can't miss with one


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## Cleankill47

dchfm123, out of curiosity, what type of round were you using that didn't penetrate?


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## Nitro

MustangMAtt30 said:


> That would be the 30 foot rule.



21 Feet.

Not to pick nits, but you are referring to the "Tueller" drill. 

From a SWAT officer named Dennis Tueller's study on response times to  knife wielding attackers ability to cover distance. 

His study showed the average time to cover 21 feet was 1.5 seconds or less- thus the need to be able to draw and fire (repeatedly) and accurately in that amount of time.


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## dchfm123

Cleankill47 said:


> dchfm123, out of curiosity, what type of round were you using that didn't penetrate?



I am not sure on the grain but we used both hollow points an lead soft points, no ball ammo.  Standard ball might go through, but who uses that in a self defence gun.


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## shakey hunter

Nitro said:


> 21 Feet.
> 
> Not to pick nits, but you are referring to the "Tueller" drill.
> 
> From a SWAT officer named Dennis Tueller's study on response times to  knife wielding attackers ability to cover distance.
> 
> His study showed the average time to cover 21 feet was 1.5 seconds or less- thus the need to be able to draw and fire (repeatedly) and accurately in that amount of time.



This is what LEOs are taught during training. I know due to drills we did when I was a LEO.


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## Stu

.357 is a great handgun caliber. If you reload, get some wadcutters and load them backwards. When you shot them they will pancake. I have handguns shattered around the house. I have The Judge, the first two chambers are loaded with .410 shells and the last three cyclinders have Long Colt .45 shells. Personally, I do not use a 9MM, many have referred to it as the double-tap caliber. I also carry a Colt Defender in .45 auto.


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## money-dog

12 ga with 6's. If you have kids ? Interior walls WILL NOT stop a 357.


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## tv_racin_fan

IF you do not intend to go to the range often (like once a month or so), I'd suggest a revolver. Heck I'd suggest a Ruger GP100 357 with 4" barrel specifically in any event. Built like a tank and simple to operate (grips not overly large I know the wife can handle my 6 inch version).

If you get to the range often you will only be more prepared. Let someone else load for you and have them load in a snap cap now and again. Practice reloads. Find the HD ammo you like and then find a "range" (read that as cheaper) ammo that hits the same spot as your carry ammo. If you shoot four boxes of ammo at the range then carry three range ammo and one HD ammo. You need to know your HD ammo will feed reliably.

All this talk of hitting the range is killing me. I have been trying to get the wife to hit the range for almost a month (well even longer since I try to get her to hit the range as soon as we get home from the last trip...

IF you think you have to have semi auto for HD then by all means get one. I have a S&W Sigma that I would rely on for that with no issues. The only thing I don't like about it (well besides the polymer frame) is the dang trigger. I do not like a saftey mechanism on the trigger such that the trigger is two parts. It gave the wife trouble at the range her first trip until I showed her how it works. It shoots just fine and is rather cheap to buy. (The wife gave $309 for hers and got a $50 rebate and two extra mags) Nothing wrong with a Glock except it is polymer framed. Some people like that because it makes the gun lighter.

I suggest you find some one who has what ever you are interested in and shoot it before you buy or find a range that rents and rent whatever you are interested in. At the very least hold several handguns in your hand. Shut your eyes, aim and then see which one is pointing at the target you were aiming at. That is the gun that most naturally fits you. You will more than likely shoot it better than any other.


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## bankwalker

12 ga with 6's?  I am of the believe that you should always shoot to kill.  Dead people can't get back up and kill you.  Dead people also can't testify - that goes for victims as well as criminals, so make sure your intruder is D.A.A.D.

Shooting someone with 6's might stop the person long enough, but I'm not about to go into battle against a person with something that struggles to kill a goose.

I know someone who was shot point-blank in the chest with a .38 down off North Ave in Atlanta.  The crazy "sum you know what" chased the gunman down on adrenaline, anger, and stupidity.  He got lucky because the bullet didn't tumble or ricochet.  It lodged in his sternum and the doctors actually never removed the bullet.  Lucky for the criminal the guy didn't have a gun that he could fire back or he would have killed the gunman.


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## tv_racin_fan

bank, you don't generally try to kill geese at normal home defense range either.

I figure the perfect home defence setup is a short barreled 12 guage with side saddle and stock cuff (read that as one of those things that go on your stock that holds shells). I would load shot in the tube #6 seems a good size, buck shot in the side saddle and slugs in the stock cuff. Inside my home I'd be using the shot already in the tube. Should I need to address a target(s) outside the home then I have buck and slug right there with me ready to go. Then pattern your shotty at any range you are likely to need it. Be prepared to shoot as many times as it takes to stop the attacker. Pratice those reloads.


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## dapper dan

Pump SHotgun. If they break in at night, you wake up and hear it. You rack that shoutgun. Crooks will go out the door. It is a universal sound that someone is going to be getting shot at.


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## crbrumbelow

Got a 20 guage loaded with buckshot in the corner.  A S&W 629 44 mag on my bedside and a Ruger Security Six 357 mag on my wifes bedside.  Intruder doesnt stand a chance.  I dont live in an apartment so its open game.  Oh yea both pistols loaded with Speer Gold Dots.


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## GaDawgs79

IMHO, a youth 20 gauge with imp cylinder and #4 buckshot is the best home defense gun you can have.  Lightweight, easy to get around with and you don't need pinpoint shooting skills when you are in a panic to defend yourself.  Just my 2 cents.


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## RocketRider

12 gauge pump,short barrel,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## SSG

bankwalker said:


> 12 ga with 6's?  I am of the believe that you should always shoot to kill.  Dead people can't get back up and kill you.  Dead people also can't testify - that goes for victims as well as criminals, so make sure your intruder is D.A.A.D.
> 
> Shooting someone with 6's might stop the person long enough, but I'm not about to go into battle against a person with something that struggles to kill a goose.
> 
> I know someone who was shot point-blank in the chest with a .38 down off North Ave in Atlanta.  The crazy "sum you know what" chased the gunman down on adrenaline, anger, and stupidity.  He got lucky because the bullet didn't tumble or ricochet.  It lodged in his sternum and the doctors actually never removed the bullet.  Lucky for the criminal the guy didn't have a gun that he could fire back or he would have killed the gunman.



A load of 6,s at the range you would be shooting at inside your home will kill !!! and there will be less chance of penetrating interior walls.......To all those that think you cant miss with a shotgun. yall been watching too much TV, go to the range and shoot a target with 00 buck from 5 to 7 yds. It will have a pretty tight pattern at that range. My 590 will keep all 9 pellets on a silhouette target at 25 yds.


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## Handgunner

Here's my home defense handgun...

It's a Colt King Cobra, .357 with a 4" barrel.  I have it loaded with .38 special HP's, for the very reason someone mentioned previously... I don't want over penetration for fear of passing through a wall and hitting my niece or nephew, should the occasion ever arise for me to have to use it.

For home defense, IMO, a revolver is the way to go for someone not familiar with shooting a semi-auto.. With a revolver, there is no chance of a stove-pipe, jam, etc...

You just pull the trigger until empty... 

If you can't stop someone at close range with 6 shots, try to use only use 5 and save the last one for yourself.


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## tv_racin_fan

That is a nice HD handgun for sure.


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## bankwalker

#6 shot at close range might kill someone, but do you think it is more likely to kill someone than a .38 to the chest?  You might kill someone, but they are going to bleed out from being shot in the neck or stomach, and that's about it.   You aren't going to break bones.  Bird shot is not going to penetrate the sternum or ribs of an average adult male.  If you are waiting until they get within 5 or 6 feet of you so that the bird shot will be effective, well...good luck to you.

I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong to use #6 for home defense.  You are all free to use whatever you want.  I am simply suggesting there are MUCH better options for someone who has to ask about gun types than to have to worry about remembering how to cycle a pump shotgun, how many rounds to cycle before you get to the buckshot, etc.  Keep things as simple as possible for those who aren't intimately familiar with firearms.    Remember that the thread was a request for information regarding a potential life or death situation.  I'm not sure there is an answer one could absolutely term as being incorrect, but there are certainly better options than others.


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## tjl1388

one_shot said:


> taurus judge



+10,000


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## tv_racin_fan

Actually he was asking specifially about a pistol. Which generally means a semi auto handgun or a single shot handgun. In which case I suggested a Ruger GP100 4" 357 mag revolver. If he wants to make a trip in my direction I'll let him shoot anything I have and he can determine for himself which he likes better. The wife got herself a Kahr CW9 and I liked it so much I got a Kahr K9 for myself, they are nice small concealable 9mm handguns that are large enough for my hands to control.

BUT for someone who doesn't know alot about firearms a pump action shotgun is pretty simple to operate. I'm not one to advocate loading a mix of shells because the shell you need will envariably be not the next shell in line. Just the same I do like having a side saddle with buckshot and a stock cuff with slugs and having bird shot of #6 or bigger in the tube for home defence. It will depend on your particular home. BUT for MY home it should be just fine. I paced off ten paces from my "office" in one end of my home to my bed room in the other end so I wont be shooting anything longer than ten paces INSIDE my home. I dunno about you BUT I wouldn't want to take three shots to the chest with #6 shot in a 2 3/4" 12g shell. AND if three aint enough there are still two more left in the tube and 4 buckshot in the side saddle and 5 slugs on the stock. Whatever YOU have on hand and feel comfortable with is always better than anything I may suggest.


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## buckstoper

You guys need to check out hornady's new ammo critical defense line . This is really gonna be one of the best for 09 superb engineering and the dependable hornady name is wut i rely on ... This is what i use in my 38 and 9mm just waiting for the 40 cal. And 45 cal. This load is a must for home protection & personal defense !!!!


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## lostatsea

I agree with a 357 mag as the handgun of choice and I would put a Taurus Judge as #2 as a PD handgun.

A shotgun can be a devastating weapon for short range work, but remember that the longer barrel makes it more difficult to maneuver and aim in close quarters, but with that being said I also keep one close at hand. I prefer 00 buckshot. Lighter buck shot and heavy field loads do not give me the desired penetration, and I live in a world where might kill the bad guy that broke into my home is not an option. I want to be sure that I can eliminate the threat as fast as possible with as few shots as possible. I realize that nothing is 100% certain but a round of 00 buck shot to the chest is more likely to kill the attacker than heavy 6's or #6 buck shot.

As others have said Hornady, Gold Dot, Cor Bon, and Federal all make great HP's. I perfer Gold Dot because in my test and the test reviews from others I have seen and read it is always the top 1 or 2 in expansion and penetration.

If over penetration is a concern move to one of the other types of safety slugs given here.

I have no idea if a 357 will penetrate the shaft wall or not. Never tested it. I can say that it will penetrate the interior walls of a house or apt. unless it hits something very tough. I have performed some tests and have seen video showing some amazing penetration by bullets but if this shaft wall is 3 or 4 inches thick with tightly compressed fibers I can see it stopping some hollow points or at least slowing them down enough to minimize collateral damage.


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## Richard P

If you choose a 44m, remember that you can use 44spl in it.  If you dont live alone you might want to have something your partner can use if they must.  Additionally, buy one or a pair of the high intensity flashlights. They work well for identifying targets and blinding them. Dont go looking for intruders; let them come to you.  If you are on the floor at the bedroom door you dont present much of a target.  In these cases ''no shots fired'' is preferred as long as it solves the problem.


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## buckstoper

im here to say , if hornady comes out with a critcical defense load for your weapon . you will not want nothing more ,, ive shot almost every thing , in my 38 , 380 , and 9mm ... this bullet is by far the most dependable and trustworthy ive ever shot & with the new technology ,you will not be disapointed in the penetraiton & dependabilitty ... www.hornady.com  also check out joining team mornady awsome updates on new technology & magazines & stickers !!!!!!!!!


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## watashot89

if its just for home defense i would just go with a pump 12 ga. would sure as heck scare me away.


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## StikR

As mentioned above.....a shotgun with a #4 or #6 will kill someone dead as a hammer at close range, i.e <15 feet.  #8 bird shot will stone a deer at 20 ft if shot in the head.


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## fishingtiger

*made my purchase*

I went with a S&W 686 357 Revolver 4 inch barrel. Thanks for everyone's input. There are ton of knowledgeable folks here whose advice really helped.


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## Doc_Holliday23

fishingtiger said:


> I went with a S&W 686 357 Revolver 4 inch barrel. Thanks for everyone's input. There are ton of knowledgeable folks here whose advice really helped.



good choice.  the 686 is about as solid a gun as has ever been made.  its one you can definitely count on when it could mean your life.


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## pnome

Check out this website if you have concerns over penetration in your house / apartment www.theboxotruth.com


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## Luckybuck

Check out the new Ruger 327 with Federal ammo designed for this weapon.  Supposed to have firepower of 357 magnum but no recoil to speak of.   Have been watching results on sports programs and this baby looks sweet.


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## Doc_Holliday23

pnome said:


> Check out this website if you have concerns over penetration in your house / apartment www.theboxotruth.com



good link.  one gyp. board wall (2 layers of either 1/2" or 5/8" gyp) will not stop ANYTHING.


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## can"t wait

mossberg 500 pistol grip 12 ga is my best sellar you dont have to aim just point and shoot


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## MustangMAtt30

I'm glad all of you shotgun guys think that just by magically racking the slide you are going to frighten off all evildoers.......

I'm also impressed that at close range ya'll fellers don't have to aim.  You must have some kind of super duper spreader choke that really opens up quickly at living room distances.


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## Lindseys Grandpa

A shotgun loaded with birdshot will stop any intruder id a confined area such as a apartment. A 357 will kill someone 3 apartments away if it only passes thru drywall. Was involved in a shootout where our 9mm went throug 4 walls and were only stopped by the back exterior wall the drywall will plug a hollowpoint and it then becomes a full metal jacket. If using a pistol i agree with others on the Glazed Safety slugs test  have showed it has devastating results on soft  tissue targets but will not travel thru walls and kill neighbors, i carry Glazers in my personal weapons .


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## 5HwnBoys

*This is just what ya need*

Better hold on tight


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## Handgunner

5HwnBoys said:


> Better hold on tight


I bet that muzzle flash is a pain during low-light conditions!


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## TBynum

I personally prefer my Kahr PM45.   For someone not really familiar with the autos,  I would go with any good  .357 revolver with either magnums or 38 +Ps.   I also would recommend the first round being loaded with a 38 shotshell cartridge.  Why?   because in the haze of the night  a 38 shotshell shot in the general direction of an intruder will enable you to "make  contact"  with the first round and possibly end it by the second.    I would also encourage the investment of some good tritium night sights.    Being able to actually aim at night is a priceless advantage.


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## NDLucas

fishingtiger said:


> Not really hunting related but I am looking for a pistol to keep in the house. I live in downtown ATL and things seem to be heating up around here with the violent crime.
> 
> I wanted to hear some recommendations. I shot a s&w 357 revolver this past weekend but i am not sure if i should get a revolver or not.



Glock 29 with Doubletap ammo.....


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## 30 06

Glock 22-40 cal, with Crimson Trace Laser Grip.


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## Big7

one_shot said:


> Taurus Judge



They got the three inch now.
Good luck finding one though.

I got three shops "looking" for me!


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## Gote Rider

money-dog said:


> 12 ga with 6's. If you have kids ? Interior walls WILL NOT stop a 357.



A few years back me and my brother shot up a old house that he was going to tear down. We did it to see how how well the walls would stop bullets and shots from a shotgun. We shot 22lr,22mag,38sp,357mag,9mm,44mag and 12ga. The 22lr would shoot thru two walls if it did not hit a 2x4 stud. The 357 and 44 would would shoot thru two wall and exit the house. The shots were from 5 feet to 30 feet. The 12ga. loaded with 00 buck would shoot thur two wall and some pellets would exit the house. The 12ga. loaded with #6 shot would shoot thru one wall and scatter the second wall. The gun I found to be the best home protection gun is a 12ga loaded with Winchester Supreme 3in #4 shot. It would shoot thru one wall and scatter the second wall very good. You do not want to shoot at someone in your house thats trying kill you and kill somebody in the next room or the HOUSE across the street. All these shots were done on an old solid WOOD house.


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## NotaHunter

Talking about the Judge, a friend of mine bought one this weekend at Bo Barrow's in Butler. I got a chance to shoot it too. At 10 feet using #4 shot,  it made a 3'x3' spread. Not near the recoil you'd expect. This was a stainless model, not the ultralight ones they make as well.


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## NotaHunter

MustangMAtt30 said:


> I'm glad all of you shotgun guys think that just by magically racking the slide you are going to frighten off all evildoers.......
> 
> I'm also impressed that at close range ya'll fellers don't have to aim.  You must have some kind of super duper spreader choke that really opens up quickly at living room distances.



I don't need to rack the slide. The first warning will be the sound of already chambered round going off. And if that one doesn't get it done, one or two of the remaining seven should do the trick.


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## fj40

I would have to say that the Judge is probably best suited to home defense. It can be loaded with an assortment of ammo from .410 to 45 Colt.  The shot column spread is great up to 21 feet.  No 6 shot is great to use first then load with 2 rounds of buck shot and finish with some light loaded 45 colt.  With that setup its just point in the general direction until you get to the last two shots.  Not to mention it is easier to handle in tight spaces.


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## siberian1

J frame smith and wesson, 38 special. Its tried and true.


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## tv_racin_fan

Nothing wrong with a 38 that is true but for a HD handgun I would much prefer a 4 inch 357 over a snub nosed anything. That said I have a 6inch Ruger GP 100 I could use and a few smaller semi auto handguns as well. I am currently in the market for a shotgun.


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## Laman

bankwalker said:


> #6 shot at close range might kill someone, but do you think it is more likely to kill someone than a .38 to the chest?  Bird shot only goes into a bird an inch or so, and I've shot ducks at the same range as I would someone in my home plenty of times.  You might kill someone, but they are going to bleed out from being shot in the neck or stomach, and that's about it.   You aren't going to break bones.  Bird shot is not going to penetrate the sternum or ribs of an average adult male.  If you are waiting until they get within 5 or 6 feet of you so that the bird shot will be effective, well...good luck to you.
> 
> I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong to use #6 for home defense.  You are all free to use whatever you want.  I am simply suggesting there are MUCH better options for someone who has to ask about gun types than to have to worry about remembering how to cycle a pump shotgun, how many rounds to cycle before you get to the buckshot, etc.  Keep things as simple as possible for those who aren't intimately familiar with firearms.    Remember that the thread was a request for information regarding a potential life or death situation.  I'm not sure there is an answer one could absolutely term as being incorrect, but there are certainly better options than others.



I don't know what armored types of waterfowl you shoot but I have killed lots of ducks and geese and cleaned many more at our duck camp that had pass through wounds of 6's and particularly 4's.  
Also if anyone thinks that a 12 or even a 20 gauge loaded with 6's will not penetrate flesh and break bone at home defense ranges has never seen an animal shot with the same.  We had remote cattle pasture in La. at the end of a dirt road that was a common dropping off point for unwanted dogs.  Several times I had to dispatch these starving mangy dogs with the 12 gauge we always carried.  Out to 40-50 ft the wounds were always very deep and immediately fatal.  After experiencing this there is no doubt in my mind that at 20 ft. a load of 6's in the sternum would knock a man off his feet and if not cause immediate death would totally incapcitate him.
My first gun by the bed is a 12 ga. auto with 6 rounds of lead shot 4's.


----------



## tv_racin_fan

Laman I don't have any real experience in the area but I can not see anyone taking a shot to the chest area of #6s and not going down. AND if one doesn't cut it at 10 feet then I am surely going to give him as many as it takes or until my mag is empty wherein I will be attempting to reload.


----------



## bankwalker

LAMAN, Carry and shoot whatever you please.  I seriously doubt you've ever shot a duck or a goose with #6 birdshot, and you can't compare a malnourished dog's bones to a healthy human adult.  It's hard to find anything smaller than #4 in a store because the smaller stuff won't bring large birds down with regularity.   No sane hunter buys them.  Any firearm will work if the other party isn't carrying a gun.  Your plan also works if all the lights are on and you can see that the intruder isn't about to shoot you from the floor.  Otherwise, you are going to have to keep shooting in the dark or risk getting shot.  My philosophy is going to remain, "Finish with the first shot, if possible."  If I miss, I just miss.  What can I say?  I won't miss.

Unfortunately, I've seen a couple of dogs shot within 10 yards with #8's, which isn't terribly different than #6's.   The dogs yelled like muthas, but they didn't go down and I bet if they would have had opposing thumbs and a handgun they would have still been able to get off a shot.


----------



## Laman

bankwalker, you can't be serious if you think that aimed shot from a shotgun inside of 30 feet will not seriously injure, main, or kill a human and most probably very quickly.
A large dog shot at that same range with dramatic ugly fatal wounds is certainly comparable to a human.
Where in the heck did the question of whether the lights are on and the bad guy is on the floor come from?  Don't be obtuse, of course you can't kill what you don't hit with any weapon.
As for as the birdshot issue, I would bet that I have killed more waterfowl than you as I practically grew up at my uncles commercial duck camp in the marshes of La. and guided there till I was out of college back in the good old days of high limits.  Your probably a young whippersnapper that never got to shoot lead shot at waterfowl as I can assure you that give me a 12 gauge load of 4's lead I can kill any goose graveyard dead at 50 yards.  You can seriously doubt all you want to but the standard load for decoying ducks was always hi-brass 6's, we used to buy them by the case.

Oh by the way I have lead shot in my home defense gun and I can hit what I shoot at, can you?

To the OP, sorry for carrying on this hi-jacking of your thread, pistols can be effective, I am just not a pistol person even though I own several.


----------



## Bobhica

If you guys are going to argue, pm each other.  Some of us are actually interested in getting a solid idea on what a good home defense gun would be, not hearing you two swordfight in the shower over birdshot.


----------



## CrackerBoyd

*Home Protection Gun*

Bond Arms Snakeslayer (deringer) one barrel with 410 ooo buckshot the other with 45 long colt. It fits nicely in a side pouch of the mattress.


----------



## dertiedawg

The 4.5 inches of shaft wall between apartment units is there to slow the spread of a fire, not to stop magnum handgun loads.  If you live in an apartment, you really need to be careful to use a rapid expanding bullet that won't go through the wall and possibly kill a child next door.  The shaft wall may slow it down but also may not stop it.  There are different types and grades of shaft walls and some will most definitely NOT stop magnum loads.


----------



## siberian1

I do agree that the 357 magnum is probably the best manstopper out there. I would just choose a 38 special due to low recoil, would be easier for a wife or a child (if need be) to use and the muzzle flash/blast wont blind you for 2 days if you shoot it in a dark room at night.  There are plenty of choices though.  Find the one you like. Practice, practice, practice and become proficient with it. Run failure drills with a firearms instructor.  Know the laws, Know how to identify Ability, Opportunity, and Intent of an intruder. And learn how to avoid confrontations so that hopefully you will never have to use your weapon.


----------



## siberian1

PS. I think a 12 gauge with a Turkey load is one of the most destructive things you can have in a home defense shooting situation!!


----------



## bankwalker

Bobhica - Learn to scroll and skip my posts if you don't want to read them.  My point is that people shouldn't be telling other people looking for advice on home protection firearms to use a handful of BB's.  It's not responsible.  

LAMAN - Do you know anyone who has been shot?  I do, and I'm not talking in a bird field.  They were shot by a thug criminal and lived to tell about it.  I've also seen a golden retriever shot with bird shot out of a 12 gauge at close enough range that the pellets didn't spread out larger than a grapefruit.  It was at probably 15 feet.  It was a disgusting act, but nonetheless - the dog lived and wasn't even knocked off his feet.  Had it been a criminal carrying a pistol, the criminal would have definitely been able to fire back.  You can't say, "Well I would just keep firing the gun until he went down."  Yes, or until you got popped yourself.  What does the question of being in a dark room have to do with anything?  I am embarrassed for you that I would have to explain it.  We are talking about intruders to your home.  They don't usually knock on the door in the afternoon, or turn on your living room lights for you.  

You guys can all pretend to know that bird shot will stop a human all you want, but I know from the above experience that someone who relies on bird shot to defend the lives of their family is leaving the door open.  I've seen it with my own two eyes.  I'm not relying on something I read or any assumptions based on hunting experience.  I am right.  You are wrong.  Period. 

If you can't hit someone with buckshot, then how much damage do you think you are going to do with bird shot?  Wasn't that the reason given for using bird shot - because it creates a bigger pattern?  That is perhaps the most flawed logic I've seen applied to a firearm.


----------



## siberian1

bankwalker said:


> Bobhica - Learn to scroll and skip my posts if you don't want to read them.  My point is that people shouldn't be telling other people looking for advice on home protection firearms to use a handful of BB's.  It's not responsible.
> 
> LAMAN - Do you know anyone who has been shot?  I do, and I'm not talking in a bird field.  They were shot by a thug criminal and lived to tell about it.  I've also seen a golden retriever shot with bird shot out of a 12 gauge at close enough range that the pellets didn't spread out larger than a grapefruit.  It was at probably 15 feet.  It was a disgusting act, but nonetheless - the dog lived and wasn't even knocked off his feet.  Had it been a criminal carrying a pistol, the criminal would have definitely been able to fire back.  You can't say, "Well I would just keep firing the gun until he went down."  Yes, or until you got popped yourself.  What does the question of being in a dark room have to do with anything?  I am embarrassed for you that I would have to explain it.  We are talking about intruders to your home.  They don't usually knock on the door in the afternoon, or turn on your living room lights for you.
> 
> You guys can all pretend to know that bird shot will stop a human all you want, but I know from the above experience that someone who relies on bird shot to defend the lives of their family is leaving the door open.  I've seen it with my own two eyes.  I'm not relying on something I read or any assumptions based on hunting experience.  I am right.  You are wrong.  Period.
> 
> If you can't hit someone with buckshot, then how much damage do you think you are going to do with bird shot?  Wasn't that the reason given for using bird shot - because it creates a bigger pattern?  That is perhaps the most flawed logic I've seen applied to a firearm.



Inside of a small room why would you be concerned with the pattern from a shotgun.  I think bird shot would be an okay idea, not the best, but at 10 steps it will definitely stop an intruder.  I think the best idea is to stop the threat, not necessarily kill them.  That keeps you out of a lot of legal problems.   The bird shot would definitely be much safer in apts and homes with sheetrock walls anyways.  I dont want to be shot with it!


----------



## fishingtiger

"I think the best idea is to stop the threat, not necessarily kill them.  That keeps you out of a lot of legal problems."  

The way our legal system is set up, you would be better off killing the intruder.


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## siberian1

The way our legal system is set up, you would be better off killing the intruder.[/QUOTE]

Could be true


----------



## Laman

*Bankwalker I hate to carry this on*

and again apologies to the OP but let me set you straight on a couple of things;

1. read my posts, I did not say that a shotguns value is that you don't have to aim, I know very well how tight the pattern is on a shotgun, remember I have shot things with a shotgun.
2.  I am not trying to dissuade anyone from using a pistol, the real issue was over-penetration from a various pistol rounds and the use of birdshot at close range as an alternative.  I just related my experience with a shotgun, you can believe it or not
3.  No one brought up the issue of lights out, perpetrator moving etc., read my lips we all here know that you cannot kill what you do not hit.
4.  The only false information being is by yourself to indicate that "a handful of BB's" is worthless.
5. You seem to operate on the theory that we are using single shot shotguns.

There is no need to get in a peeing match over this (or swordfight)  The man asked a question and received some good answers, my input was to verify that a handful of BB's can really ruin a bad guys night.  I can imagine that there are a lot of experienced people on this site chuckling at the thought that a shotgun is useless for  defense.

Good night.


----------



## bankwalker

Never said a shotgun was useless for self defense.  Buckshot is deadly stuff.  The question which begs asking is, why in the world would you try to shoot someone if you didn't feel your life was in danger?  Why in the world would you try to shoot someone who was also armed with a firearm with any intent other than to kill?  I am of the belief that you should only use firearms against another human in a SURVIVAL SITUATION.  You aren't playing paintball where the other party is going to say, "Okay, you got me.  I"ll wait on the front porch until the police arrive."  Your survival plan involving bird shot was obviously made without any consideration as to what other variables might come into play in the event of a fire fight with an intruder, i.e. - darkness, the ability of an armed intruder to move after being shot, the ability of an armed intruder shoot his gun after being shot, etc.   

You are a terrible debater.  The 5 points you listed are not even worth addressing.


----------



## Laman

Hey bankwalker, one more time! Read my post and the others!  No one was discussing the points you are trying to bring into this, no one!  All of those points are of course considerations but what was discussed originally was pistol rounds, danger of over-penetration, buckshot and birdshot, not all the other variables that come into play in a SURVIVAL SITUATION.
Believe me old boy I am not trying to debate you, there is nothing to debate here.  Your are reading so many things into my responses that you are ignoring the facts and the obvious.

I will stand by my original premise, if you are worried about over-penetration (which I am) than an aimed shot from a shotgun loaded with 6's at room range will severely injure or kill an intruder and the reason for using a pump or auto is for multiple shots if needed.

BTW I am right and you are wrong, period!


----------



## bankwalker

LAMAN,

Your reading and comprehension skills are a little lacking, to say the least.  You are the one who needs to read the posts by others.  The thread is titled "HOME defense...".  The guy who started the thread didn't say a thing about living in an apartment, over penetration, or anything else you are now claiming.  Those concerns were raised by other posters, but do not necessarily change the topic of the thread.  In fact, after someone brought up the apartment, the guy posted that a revolver would be best for him.  I would take that to mean that the person who originated the thread lives in a HOME.  

All of the talk about shotguns and type of shot to use falls under

If it is alright to change the topic from handguns to shotguns(which is what you have basically done), then it should be alright to point out the other variables which could result in death by employing your flawed logic.   YOU sound like a democrat - "Hey, stop trying to bring facts into this discussion."  

You've seen bird shot work.  I've seen it fail, and heard about other instances where dogs were shot with bird shot and ran off.  That makes your plan far less than 100%, and probably somewhere around 50%.   Me?  I'm looking for better than a coin flip.


----------



## fishingtiger

*boxotruth*

After reading the boxotruth website about using birdshot for home defense, I would never consider it. 

I recommend you take a look at his study of this. He basically said birdshot is for birds, NOT self defense. You never know when you are going to get some guy all jacked up on Crystal Meth who could take multiple shots of birdshot without going down. It has been documented before. 

Nevertheless, as I posted previously, I ended going with a S&W 357.


----------



## zksailfish

how about the defender


----------



## bankwalker

fishingtiger said:


> After reading the boxotruth website about using birdshot for home defense, I would never consider it.
> 
> I recommend you take a look at his study of this. He basically said birdshot is for birds, NOT self defense. You never know when you are going to get some guy all jacked up on Crystal Meth who could take multiple shots of birdshot without going down. It has been documented before.
> 
> Nevertheless, as I posted previously, I ended going with a S&W 357.




     Come on down and get you some, LAMAN


----------



## Nitro

Buckshot only in my Home Defense guns- preferably #1 or 00 Buck.


----------



## Laman

bankwalker said:


> Come on down and get you some, LAMAN



I can give you more than you can take, besides you done called me a Democrat how dare you! 

To fishingtiger, good choice on the 357, I carry one in my truck.
Let's not ignore the fact that there are many cases of Meth'ed up or even regular bad guys abosrbing several hits from pistol rounds and continuing to fight.  The only solution with pistol or shotgun is to keep on shooting till they stop.

Hey my reading skills are just fine, good enough to know that six posters mentioned shotguns before I did and I believe 10 more after that.  

Again, once again, my postings are centered on your total disregard of 6's as being effective in self-defense and my offering evidence that they can be.  The best, maybe not but effective, yes and a little safer for the rest of the family.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh since you brought it up, I did know two people that were shot with shotguns accidently, neither survived.

We both have our opinions, if you want to continue this discussion why don't you do it with PMs. I am sure the rest of the forum is tired of this.


----------



## boothy

nice choice on the .357


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## tv_racin_fan

I agree very nice choice on the 357. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed mine.


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## bankwalker

fishingtiger said:


> After reading the boxotruth website about using birdshot for home defense, I would never consider it.
> 
> I recommend you take a look at his study of this. He basically said birdshot is for birds, NOT self defense. You never know when you are going to get some guy all jacked up on Crystal Meth who could take multiple shots of birdshot without going down. It has been documented before.
> 
> Nevertheless, as I posted previously, I ended going with a S&W 357.



I just hope you never have to use the gun in a real life situation.  Things are getting a little hairy in some parts of town right now.  

Call me crazy, but I think everyone should own at least 3 or 4 guns - a shotgun, a handgun, a rifle of some sort, and a .22 rifle for a doomsday scenario.  All of the above are worthless if you don't have enough ammo to last you a lifetime.

LAMAN, no need to continue the conversation.  The issue has been settled.  I was just enjoying having a big one pull on my hook for a little bit.  This was like hooking in to a big snapping turtle - you know the only way he could ever get the best of you is to try to bring him all the way in the boat.  Best to just play him up to the boat and then break the line.  Don't think for one second that the majority of people were upset about our conversation.  People who traffic forums LOVE this kind of thing.  It's THE reason they visit so often.


----------



## 4wheeling4life

I'm a pretty simple person. So I try to keep my carrying gun simple. 

1911 9mm.

 If I cant stop someone with that, guess I will have to go back to the ole Karate training......


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## siberian1

fishingtiger said:


> After reading the boxotruth website about using birdshot for home defense, I would never consider it.
> 
> I recommend you take a look at his study of this. He basically said birdshot is for birds, NOT self defense. You never know when you are going to get some guy all jacked up on Crystal Meth who could take multiple shots of birdshot without going down. It has been documented before.
> 
> Yeah I agree someone could take multiple shots from a shotgun and just keep coming. Remember in Terminator 2 when Arnold had to shoot that guy over and over and the guy just kept getting up!!!


----------



## Laman

Gosh Siberian you are right, I forgot about Zombies and Aliens.

I am not trying to make light of the situation, but I think it is entirely reasonable to believe that anyone that can absorb several shotgun blast from short range and then keep on coming will most likely soak up some 38's.  I distinctly remember seeing a video of a trooper shooting an attacking motorist twice with some type of 1911 auto (did not state caliber).  This guy was slight of build took two pistol rounds to the lower body, never fell, and ended up sitting on the tailgate of his truck complaining about why he got shot.  Fatal shots they were not but they also had no immediate debilitating affect.

Lets get real, it boils down to using a firearm of adequate power, getting very proficient with it, and being ready to shoot to kill and keep on shooting to its over.    

I feel very safe with my bedside rig and if I have to chase him outside there is an AR close by with two 30 round clips.


----------



## siberian1

There is a very high survival rate with those shot by handguns.  Thats not my opinion its a statistical fact!  I do think someone shot at Close range with even a low brass bird shot shell will have a greater wound surface area and will probably succomb to injuries faster than they would from a handgun.  Just do some target practice up close and see for yourself the damage those things do.


----------



## siberian1

PS The 357 is a great choice


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## mriver72

money-dog said:


> 12 ga with 6's. If you have kids ? Interior walls WILL NOT stop a 357.



I really never thought of that but now you mention it makes a lot of sense ...real good sense cause i have kids ..could make a bad situation worse..


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## camp314

everyone always says that a 12 gauge is the best for home defense beacuse the sound of the pump will scare them away. i disagree strongly. all your going to when you pump a shotgun at a door is let them know where your at and your more than likely toast then. i have a taurus 1911 as a home defense gun.


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## tv_racin_fan

My home defence guns are cocked and locked so to speak. I may rack the slide on a pump action shotgun but it will be after the first shot...


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## hawgrider1200

I too think the best home defense firearm is a 12 gauge. I don't think I'd load it with #6 low brass shells but, hydrostatic shock is what kills when hit with bullets. a 12 gauge at the ranges ya'll were talkin about definately has the potential to inflict serious damage by virtue of the hydrostatic shock. #6 pellets may not penetrate bone but the hydrostatic shock would break said bones. 

Even so, you do have to aim a shotgun at those ranges no matter if it's sawed off or 30"barrel length. the pattern from a sawed off 12 gauge don't open up at the ranges of 3-7 yards. Which ever weopon you decide to use make sure u practice with it regularly. I saw on tv where in a mock gun fight the adrenelin rush makes one less likely to shoot where one needs to. The mock gunfight was done with paintballs. Even though these would be gunslingers knew they would not be killing each other the adrinelin had their bloood pressure all elevated and pulse and respiration rates were also elevated. Effected the aim of these people really bad.


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## bobman

I know a guy that killed a charging grizzly in Montana with 6's out of his twelve guage while hunting pheasants. 

Killed the bear instantly and it wasnt a head shot. 

Nothing is meaner than a shotgun at "in the house" ranges. At twenty feet you have in effect, about a oz and a quarter chunk of lead and a pattern the size of your fist. 

Not many rooms in most houses are even 20 feet across. 

No handguns even come close.

I like the 357mag with 125 grain jacketed hollow points in a revolver


----------



## Fireman26

*Home Protection*

I agree, its hard to beat a shotgun!  I have a shotgun, .38 spl, and an XD9.  They are all great for home protection.  It all depends on what you like.  I like a revolver especially for a lady, but my XD can accomodate a light and laser and its automatic.  Check out www.advout.com and go to gun search and play around with all of the different firearms.  They have over 6,000 guns on display at their S. Cobb Dr. store.  Good luck.


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## chainshaw

I love how everyone thinks that a thug will run away at the sound of a shotgun slide racking. Too much TV.

A short shotgun would be decent, but a handgun can be maneuvered more easily. Whatever you get, go to the range and practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute for know your weapon and your capabilities.


----------



## Eddy M.

siberian1 said:


> PS. I think a 12 gauge with a Turkey load is one of the most destructive things you can have in a home defense shooting situation!!



MY thought also


----------



## fishingtiger

*follow up*

i initially started this thread and did go with a 357 revolver as my first handgun for home protection. I now keep that upstairs and am happy to say that yesterday I added a Springfield XDM9 for my downstairs protection. This handgun thing is addictive. Lets see...I think i need another one for kitchen protection next.


----------



## tv_racin_fan

fishing you need to keep one on you. No reason to stash any anywhere, someone who doesn't understand firearm safety may find it and someone could get hurt. Keep the spares in a safe of some sort.


----------



## Son

*Home*

I use shotguns.....hard to miss with them.


----------



## Wiskey_33

Remington 870 Super Mag loaded up with 00 Buck next to the dresser and a SP101 with 130 grain Hydrashok's in the night stand.

I used to pack the 870 with 3.5" turkey loads, but switched to buck when I moved to a house.


----------



## BuckHunter 34

We have S&W 38. special


----------



## RICANKING360

*Question?????*

I wanted to know what are the laws of shooting someone if they break into your house/apartment?? Can you shoot them if they dont even have a weapon? Please have knowledge on this..thanks


----------



## fishingtiger

the way I understand it is that if there is "forceful entry" with "intent" to cause harm, you can shoot them. 

In this current environment of fewer cops, more crime, i dont think there are going to be too many district attorneys who are going to prosecute a home owner in a situation like this. 

Cops I have talked to applaud those who defend their home and possessions.


----------



## hawaiian

12 gauge H/K Fabrm Turkey  Shotgun U/O with 3.5 4#5#7 NITRO.

AND YOU A'ULL HAVE A NICE DAY !!


----------



## Alex138

*Split the difference!!!*

In the clock by the door:  grandpa's old 4" Service Six w/Hydra-shocks.  By the bed:  Mossberg 590A1 w/ghost ring sights and seven 1 oz. super-x hollow points.  M-9 on the tip JIC.


----------



## 1776Flintlock

having both is even better


----------



## Kendallbearden

I keep my Bersa .380 in my bedroom. All my other guns stay in our safe. But a small, compact gun is a good choice. Revolvers are usually more simple if you are not experienced with firing pistols. I reccomend a small caliber revolver or pistol, such as a Glock 23, Bersa Thunder .380, or a S&W revolver with a 3 inch barrel.


----------



## 1776Flintlock

I also have a very LARGE Shepherd/Collie mix. I think a real dog is also a good deterrent to bad guys.


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## savethehooch42

Glock   glock   glock


----------



## 41bear

There are alot of good answers here but if I may I'd like to point out that pistol/revolver and rifle rounds will go thru walls. If you think differently then you aren't thinking properly, with all due respect. You can't ask a round to penitrate 12" into a human body while also asking it to not penitrate walls. Bullets are dumb and once fired take on a life of their own, sorry, and if they won't penitrate walls then they won't penitrate humans. 

The answer then, if you use a sidearm, is to practice, practice, practice, and then when you have some time practice. Because you had better hit what you are shooting at, remember there are NO free fire zones in this country! You can not get away with friendly fire. This also means that if you have several stashed you have to be great with ALL of them, remember the NO friendly fire rule!

I like a shotgun for my house gun and the only sound I want to make is the sound of it going off to kill the twrep trying to harm me or mine! I really do think that the best answer though is a good dog. You can't have a better friend, he/she won't stop until they are dead, what more could you ask?

Whatever you get though the first thing you MUST remember IMHO is that you have just added a new responsibility to your life thus you owe it, not only to yourself, but to those you care about to be the *very best* you can be at gun handling (think worse case and then work up). Don't be afraid to do it just be Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- good at it!  

Sorry mods insert Darn


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## braswellmtnman

Extreme shock ammo with the  air freedom  round is good for tight spaces.


----------



## 00Beau

boneboy96 said:


> Taurus Judge loaded with 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC in that order!



I second that motion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a judge and a mossberg stainless marine 8 shot loaded with buckshot beside my bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SlappyTomato

fishingtiger said:


> I went with a S&W 686 357 Revolver 4 inch barrel. Thanks for everyone's input. There are ton of knowledgeable folks here whose advice really helped.


Solid choice!


----------



## jatkin99

*10 foot rule?*

A recent study in Colorado has shown that if an assailant is within 23ft, he can get to you before you can draw and fire.  Consequently, Colorado has a personal defense law that allows a threatened citizen to fire at an armed assailant who is within 23ft and facing him.  It is nicknamed the "Make my Day Law".Of course, if he turns his back on you to run, he has disengaged.


----------



## 00Beau

fishingtiger said:


> i initially started this thread and did go with a 357 revolver as my first handgun for home protection. I now keep that upstairs and am happy to say that yesterday I added a Springfield XDM9 for my downstairs protection. This handgun thing is addictive. Lets see...I think i need another one for kitchen protection next.


XDM9 is an awsome pistol bought one last Dec.


----------



## Sting'em!

I seem to be in the minority here, but if you are new to handguns I would reccomend a pistol, NOT a revolver.  To me, a revolver takes a little more skill to shoot and if you factor in you only have 6 shots...well...18 is more than 6...and while a revolver is 100% reliable, lets be real guys...a Glock (for instance) is going to go BANG everytime you pull the trigger.  No need to get a hand cannon!

I have a Glock 22 (.40 cal) with a Glock tactical light/laser on it...the ultimate nightstand gun.

I'd reccommend either the Glock or the XD as they are very similar in my opinion.

Just saying, if I was going to get in a shoot out in an apartment and I wasn't very skilled with handguns, the last thing I would want is a 6-shot revolver.  
Better:


----------



## heels0303

It sure is hard to bypass a shotgun for home protection. You are almost guaranteed to be on the money with a spread that a tactical shotgun gives. Personally, I rely on my Glock G19 for personal protection. The main reason I rely on it is because I know that I am on the money when shooting it, I have 100% confidence that I can protect my family and be dead on every time with that gun. Just my opinion


----------



## tv_racin_fan

My 7 shot pistol bearly has more capacity than my 6 shot revolver and it sure wont deliver the energy down range. That said I wont be carrying my revolver concealed anywhere like I can my pistol.

As for the spread on a home defence shotgun I don't think it has all that much spread at 10feet and the longest shot I could conceivably take inside my home is 10 yards and I don't believe the spread would be all that at that range.


----------



## tmoore912

Just a thought for those of you who chose .357s.  That round going off in the middle of the night right after you have been awakened by the noise of someone breaking in, is going to be something like a flash bang going off right next to you.  I do realize it will be the same for the perp also.  Disorienting and loss of night vision will probably happen if you don't have the lights on, or a flashlight on.  It would seem to make follow up shots very difficult especially if your night vision was impaired by the first round going off.

There is a big diffence between a .38, 9mm, .45, .40 going off and a .357 going off IMO.


----------



## dertiedawg

tmoore912 said:


> Just a thought for those of you who chose .357s.
> There is a big diffence between a .38, 9mm, .45, .40 going off and a .357 going off IMO.



If you shoot a 357 mag inside close quarters, there is a very good chance there will be some permanent hearing loss as well.  Of course, if you NEED to fire your weapon in close quarters, hearing loss should be the last thing on your mind.  So if your set up for 38special, 9mm, 40, 45, etc... you may just save your hearing.  This is why I say 357 mag in the 340 for hunting backup and 38special for defense.


----------



## hawgrider1200

I once had a sigle shot 12 gauge shotgun that someone had given me or let me buy it really cheap. It had a split barrel and they had sawed it off. No Choke, U'd think that with no choke the dang thing would spread pellets everywhere. Not so. We had a pig in the yard once I walked up to it and shot it with that sawed off 12 gauge.  9 pellets of 00 buckshot left one huge hole. Probably 10 yards range. So for those u think u do not have to aim with a shotgun, Please take it out and see what it'll really do.


----------



## Outdooralm

Taurus Judge.
Go to the Taurus website and watch the videos they are so cool.


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## saltysenior

colt is due to come out with a  .357 ,10 shot revolver with a 
brass knuckle grip,an attached 7'' bayonet and an optional  mace releasing lower barrel...it' called ''the paranoia special''....


----------



## Handgunner

saltysenior said:


> colt is due to come out with a  .357 ,10 shot revolver with a
> brass knuckle grip,an attached 7'' bayonet and an optional  mace releasing lower barrel...it' called ''the paranoia special''....


Just because a person isn't paranoid, doesn't mean folks ain't out to get'em!


----------



## v1vrv2

I live down in Fayette county and watch the ATL news every night.  You need to get a gun ASAP!  I have had an S&W .357 magnum as my house gun for 24 years.  I almost got to use it when I lived in Memphis.  The only thing better would be the .357 with a Streamlight TLR-2.  Since it is possible you would have a home invasion at night it would be nice to have a flashlight on the gun as well as a laser sight.  I don't know if there is any way to attach one of these to a revolver.  Best of luck.


----------



## dertiedawg

Be very careful attaching any light to a gun.  If I was to shoot at someone in the dark I would aim for the light.  Just a heads up!  A flash light in the hand off to the side is much safer!!


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## Marlin_444

First thing I grab...  .25, .357, 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 Mag, or .460...  

12 Gauge, .444, 45/70 or 300 Win Mag...  Somebody is gonna lose more than just their hearing... 

Ron


----------



## wildcats

how many have actually been confronted with an intruder?  Not saying anyone has given poor advice just asking what have you done having been faced with it.  
I had a 12g in the closet (master bedroom), 22 in the night stand (again master)  my wife wakes me with a squeal of some sort I go to find out what is going on...Someone is trying to get in the door.  About the time I get her to the closest closet he gets through.  The closest thing is a wrench luckily he is only armed with ignorance.  He gets fed a good dose of wrench and while he's nursing a head wound I get the pistol. Hold him till the man shows up.
You never know when, you never get a script.  It happens and you are confronted.  How ready will you be?  How ready can you be?  I shoot often.  I now keep them closer but mostly I pray it never happens again for everyone's sake.


----------



## Nastytater

robertyb said:


> For home protection it is hard to beat a 12 gauge shotgun. Cheaper than a handgun usually and hard to miss with. Get a Mossberg 500 pump and put a pistol grip on it.



    I agree,not to mention the only shells you'll find on the shelves right now are pretty much shotgun shells....


----------



## Nastytater

wildcats said:


> how many have actually been confronted with an intruder?  Not saying anyone has given poor advice just asking what have you done having been faced with it.
> I had a 12g in the closet (master bedroom), 22 in the night stand (again master)  my wife wakes me with a squeal of some sort I go to find out what is going on...Someone is trying to get in the door.  About the time I get her to the closest closet he gets through.  The closest thing is a wrench luckily he is only armed with ignorance.  He gets fed a good dose of wrench and while he's nursing a head wound I get the pistol. Hold him till the man shows up.
> You never know when, you never get a script.  It happens and you are confronted.  How ready will you be?  How ready can you be?  I shoot often.  I now keep them closer but mostly I pray it never happens again for everyone's sake.


    I was forced into the delima when I was only 12....My parents and all my brothers left to go to my grandparents awhile back when i was 12...I was at the neighbors house playing when they had to leave....I went home and was sitting in front of my tv when the front door got kicked in,the closet thing to me was my dads 12 gauge....I chased the guy out of the house and fired a single shot over the mans head....By the time i loaded another round into the single shot 12 gauge,the man gathered himself up off the ground and was gone....


----------



## firebreather

Just put the 38 down and got my wife the new 40cal glock feel sorry for that intruder 2 high cap clips. And she likes the feel of it. Me I'm. A 10mm glock man I'm still gonna pump him after you've shot ur 6 and I've got 4 more to go love the glocks


----------



## dertiedawg

I had two guys try to get into my front door when I lived in Brooklyn.  Racked the slide of my 12 gauge to load one up and they took off (doesn't just work in the movies).  Was happy they did because I didn't want to have to go through the red tape.  NYC really sucks for that.  Hey, whats with all these Democrats voting pro gun lately?!?!  Think they finally realize we have the right to self defense or maybe they just dont want to lose office again?!?!  I think some of them are beginning to realize that gun control doesn't work, except when its in your hands.


----------



## jatkin99

*If you live in Atlanta*

I would suggest putting claymores around the perimeter with some bouncing betties beneath the windows!


----------



## 7 point

I like the judge dont have one yet but savin my pennys


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## kg4ghn

Check out http://www.theboxotruth.com/ if you haven't seen it.

Lots of interesting tests and reading on there.


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## pkroell

If you guys want something real cool for home protection then you need these cute little shot shells. They can be loaded with #3 shot or #6 shot and trust me from personal experience the person that comes in your home with the intent to do bodily harm is going out in a body bag and the shot does not go thru the walls. It is actually a mini shot gun in a revolver. I load a 357 smith with mine and the experience I had was sufficently deadly and worked very well. I load my own and love them


----------



## Coastie

fishingtiger said:


> Not really hunting related but I am looking for a pistol to keep in the house. I live in downtown ATL and things seem to be heating up around here with the violent crime.
> 
> I wanted to hear some recommendations. I shot a s&w 357 revolver this past weekend but i am not sure if i should get a revolver or not.



Will this be just for yourself or will your wife/girlfriend be using it as well? The reason I ask is that some situations call for different approaches. A person unfamiliar with weapons, handguns in particular can be very nervous around large frame revolvers and semi-autos and shotguns. If it is for you alone, then perhaps a shotgun would be the best PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) if you have some background and training in the use of larger caliber handguns then a magnum revolver or large bore semi-auto could be the answer, especially if you will have the oportunity to put in some time at the range and possibly get some training in the proper use of PDWs. Having said all of that, if there will be another person involved in the use of that PDW, and they do not share your interest in weapons, then a smaller gun may be better suited to the situation and by that I mean a .22 semi auto. Many people, women in particular that may not be familiar with guns can comfortably handle a .22 auto and can very successfully defend themselves with one. Home defense situations typically occur at in your face halitosis range so it is not a requirement that you be able to place every round in the space of a bottle cap at 25 yards, only that you get rounds down range into your opponent and cause them to stop doing whatever it is that has caused you to be in fear of your life. Ten rounds in the chest with a .22 will very effectively do that. If you should select that route, teach yourself and wife/girlfriend that if the situation should occur, simply get as many rounds as possible into your opponent in the shortest time possible and quit only when the attack stops or you run out of bullets. .22 autos can be noisy especially indoors, so take yourself and significant other to the range to at least know how much noise to expect if the situation occurs, the other side of that is that larger caliber weapons are even noisier and when used indoors are going to be deafening, believe it or not that can be a factor even in home defense situations if a person has never fired that weapon before.


----------



## Bill Mc

Someone else had posted this before but it deserves a 2nd look.

Test using 9mm, 45ACP, .223 and 12 gauge with buck and bird shot.

 Y'all decide.


----------



## shortround1

fishingtiger said:


> Not really hunting related but I am looking for a pistol to keep in the house. I live in downtown ATL and things seem to be heating up around here with the violent crime.
> 
> I wanted to hear some recommendations. I shot a s&w 357 revolver this past weekend but i am not sure if i should get a revolver or not.


it depends on if u have children in the house. if not why stop at one firearm. i have several loaded around the house in many positions. seems like now days a perp wants to catch someone at home so they can get money from atms.i have a firearm in all rooms of the house on top of alarm and a dog. can't be too careful!


----------



## MudDucker

boneboy96 said:


> Taurus Judge loaded with 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC, shotgun OOO buck, 45 LC in that order!



Good choice.  I recently purchased and F&N 5.7x28 pistol.  Clip holds 20, low recoil, light weight and excellent accuracy.

I am thinking about a judge for my wife.  Point and click for her.


----------



## jtexaslonestar

My wife has a .38 s&w snub nose, but just replaced it with a Colt Python .357 b/c the trigger pull was much easier for her. We just loaded it with .38 instead of .357. I have a shotgun (12 ga.) loaded with steel #6...getting buckshot for it. and in process of buying .40 cal Sigma.


----------



## Barry Duggan

Glock mod.22 in .40 S&W on the night stand, Kimber in .45 ACP between the night stand and the bed, and Rem. 870 riot gun in the corner. Couple of other pieces stashed in strategic locations around the house, since one might not be the the bedroom when a maggot tries to kick the door open. There are no small, or large for that matter, children in the house.  If you are not well versed in how a semi auto functions...how to clear jams and such, you are probably better off with a revolver and/or shotgun. By the way, a 12 gauge load of #6s will penetrate two layers of drywall and knock the bark off  a chest of drawers.


----------



## repoman34

For personal defense my choice is a .40 cal . You've get the best of both worlds with it. The velocity, distance,  and accuracy of the 9mm, with almost the equivelent knock-down power of a .45. You can't ask for a better self-defense weapon if you're going with a semi-auto. If you're looking more towards a revolver, hands down a .357 mag with a 4" barrel is the way to go. Not to big and bulky, but not so short as to take away from your accuracy. Whether you go with a semi-auto or a revolver is strictly based on personal preference, but you'll never have to worry about the revolver jamming.

Personally though, for "In-Home protection"; a nice 12 gauge with buckshot in it will definetely do the trick. Don't even really have to worry about aiming.....just point in the general direction, and squeeze the trigger. Problem solved.


----------



## Parker Phoenix

dchfm123 said:


> I would get the .357 revolver, especialy if you are new to handguns.  They are failsafe and compact.  You can shoot .38's through it if you want and they are cheaper at the range.
> 
> Dont worry about the .357 going through the walls and into someone else's apt unless your apt is 30+ years old.  All multi family dwellings are required to be seperated by a minimum of 4.5 inches of shaft wall plus the drywall which the .357 wont penetrate.



Your shaftwall observation will get you in alot of trouble.


----------



## DonArkie

in my business I carry a Taurus PT-145 Millennium Pro & used for a home defence gun & travel'n in the RV. I'm a fan of 45 cal.


----------



## Rich Kaminski

*If you shoot an intruder*

Make sure they die inside your house (even if you need to drag their corpse back inside).
Make sure they have a knife or other weapon on them (a hammer, screwdriver, knife, gun or other item that can be used as a weapon is fine) - I am sure we all have many of these items in our garages.
Do not call the police until the perp is dead. You don't want to be distracted if the perp is only unconscious.
If you shoot them, make sure you kill them - you do not want them or their relatives bringing a lawsuit against you for pain and suffering or anything else that the twisted legal system allows bad guys to do.


----------



## Nitro

Rich Kaminski said:


> Make sure they die inside your house (even if you need to drag their corpse back inside).
> Make sure they have a knife or other weapon on them (a hammer, screwdriver, knife, gun or other item that can be used as a weapon is fine) - I am sure we all have many of these items in our garages.
> Do not call the police until the perp is dead. You don't want to be distracted if the perp is only unconscious.
> If you shoot them, make sure you kill them - you do not want them or their relatives bringing a lawsuit against you for pain and suffering or anything else that the twisted legal system allows bad guys to do.



Any first year investigator will have a field day with a crime Scene that you have tampered with.....

Your advice will not be heeded by me. Good Luck if YOU shoot someone and follow your own advice posted here..


----------



## MustangMAtt30

Nitro said:


> Any first year investigator will have a field day with a crime Scene that you have tampered with.....
> 
> Your advice will not be heeded by me. Good Luck if YOU shoot someone and follow your own advice posted here..



We don't agree on anything but you are 110% correct with this reponse.

The whole drag them into the house suggestion will get you fried in court as will shooting the BG execution style to make sure he is dead.  If it is a good shoot then it is a good shoot whether it occured in your bedroom or outside in the front yard.


----------



## HandgunHTR

repoman34 said:


> Personally though, for "In-Home protection"; a nice 12 gauge with buckshot in it will definetely do the trick. Don't even really have to worry about aiming.....just point in the general direction, and squeeze the trigger. Problem solved.




You have never done this before, have you?


----------



## repoman34

Meaning what exactly?


----------



## MustangMAtt30

repoman34 said:


> Meaning what exactly?



Well here you go from one of my earlier posts on this thread:




MustangMAtt30 said:


> I'm also impressed that at close range ya'll fellers don't have to aim.  You must have some kind of super duper spreader choke that really opens up quickly at living room distances.


----------



## repoman34

ok, well let me clarify then. I didn't mean that you literally DON'T have to aim; but with a shotgun, you've got to put a lot less effort into aiming, than you would with a handgun. Meaning that basically if it looks like my barrel is pretty much in line with what I'm shooting at, there's a pretty good chance of hitting it.


----------



## HandgunHTR

repoman34 said:


> ok, well let me clarify then. I didn't mean that you literally DON'T have to aim; but with a shotgun, you've got to put a lot less effort into aiming, than you would with a handgun. Meaning that basically if it looks like my barrel is pretty much in line with what I'm shooting at, there's a pretty good chance of hitting it.




The exact same thing applies for handguns as shotguns at the ranges that are normally shot at inside the house.

The distances in most rooms of a house are between 10-20 feet.  At those distances with a shotgun, you are essentially shooting a slug.

And what I meant by my post was that, like most people who post stuff on the internet, you were basing your comment on what you "think" not actual practice.  Try shooting your shotgun at 20 feet and check your "pattern".  You will see one hole.  Guaranteed.
So, what I am saying is you have to aim.


----------



## dertiedawg

Rich Kaminski said:


> Make sure they die inside your house (even if you need to drag their corpse back inside).
> Make sure they have a knife or other weapon on them (a hammer, screwdriver, knife, gun or other item that can be used as a weapon is fine) - I am sure we all have many of these items in our garages.
> Do not call the police until the perp is dead. You don't want to be distracted if the perp is only unconscious.
> If you shoot them, make sure you kill them - you do not want them or their relatives bringing a lawsuit against you for pain and suffering or anything else that the twisted legal system allows bad guys to do.



Hey Rich, this is Georgia, all they have to do is break in your house and you have justifiable reason to believe they intend to do you or your family harm and therefore self defense via the castle doctrine is completely within the law. No need to drag or justify yourself to anyone!! They don't belong in YOUR house... take'm out!!


----------



## repoman34

actually, i think even that law has changed. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have to even be on your property anymore; you simply have to show reasonable cause that you were indeed in fear for your life.

Reasonable cause doesn't mean that the neighbor threatened to beat you up either. It means that he was actually coming after you with the ball bat, gun, golf club, cinder block, knife, meat cleaver, razor blade, etc., etc.


----------



## LTE

You need to read the book, "In The Gravest Extreme."

Should be required reading for anyone wanting a handgun for defense.


----------



## crackerdave

Wow - quite a discussion! Lots of good info - and some nonsense,for entertainment purposes.

It's not hard to see there's a great deal of interest in the topic of home defense. Not surprising,the way things are going these days. I'm ready,willin',and able!


----------



## dertiedawg

LTE said:


> You need to read the book, "In The Gravest Extreme."
> 
> Should be required reading for anyone wanting a handgun for defense.


Why are some people so ready to put requirements on a constitutional right.  I understand it may be a really good read for anyone with a handgun, but why a "required reading"?  It's just another reason to deny a permit to you... "well you didn't read the book!!"


----------



## tv_racin_fan

HA! You read the wrong book, no permit for you.


----------



## Nitro

dertiedawg said:


> Why are some people so ready to put requirements on a constitutional right.  I understand it may be a really good read for anyone with a handgun, but why a "required reading"?  It's just another reason to deny a permit to you... "well you didn't read the book!!"



The reason to read the book is to LEARN the contents inside. Pretty basic.

Better idea is this- why not read all you can on the subject and get some Real life training to prepare you - in case you ever are in a position to use a firearm to defend your self or someone else....


----------



## tv_racin_fan

Indeed, however I believe Dertie's point is there should be no such infringement on the right to keep and bear arms. A person who desires to keep and bear should do what he feels neccessary not have the govt decide what is neccessary. Those who are anti gun will come up with ever tougher restrictions, as evidenced by history.


----------



## Steve Thompson

Get one of those 410 pistols. Otherwise a 38 snub works fine for close range.


----------



## pathfinder52

The Judge. Enough said.


----------



## GiddyUpGo

I use a SW model 66 with 4 inch barrel.  Nice choice and you can use the .38 loads if you prefer.


----------



## dertiedawg

tv_racin_fan said:


> Indeed, however I believe Dertie's point is there should be no such infringement on the right to keep and bear arms. A person who desires to keep and bear should do what he feels neccessary not have the govt decide what is neccessary. Those who are anti gun will come up with ever tougher restrictions, as evidenced by history.



Thanks tvrf!


----------



## Win1917

> Otherwise a 38 snub works fine for close range.



That's what I keep close by. Simple and effective.


----------



## jicard3

Nitro said:


> The reason to read the book is to LEARN the contents inside. Pretty basic.
> 
> Better idea is this- why not read all you can on the subject and get some Real life training to prepare you - in case you ever are in a position to use a firearm to defend your self or someone else....



For the original topic, I have a 357 mag in my night stand. Prob gonna switch to a 20gauge pump though we just had a baby so now I have to be concerned with blowing through the walls into her room if the situation ever comes up.

Question off topic a little........Where in middle ga can I get the wife (and myself for that matter)some real life situational type defensive training? I prefer not going to Atl if I can help it. Wonder if the police departments ever offer this to the public? Be a good idea if they don't. Eagle gun range in Macon? I know you can go to the local Karate place and take what they offer, but I'm talking some REAL life dealing with a situation type stuff. Not knocking the Karate here just looking for something more along the lines of "Wednesday night at the range" off the Outdoor chan. Like the "Best home Defense" show.


----------



## FF-Emt Diver

jicard3 said:


> Question off topic a little........Where in middle ga can I get the wife (and myself for that matter)some real life situational type defensive training? I prefer not going to Atl if I can help it. Wonder if the police departments ever offer this to the public? Be a good idea if they don't. Eagle gun range in Macon? I know you can go to the local Karate place and take what they offer, but I'm talking some REAL life dealing with a situation type stuff. Not knocking the Karate here just looking for something more along the lines of "Wednesday night at the range" off the Outdoor chan. Like the "Best home Defense" show.



There was a guy on here from WR I belive that is an NRA instructor that does training.....I'll try to remember his screen name unless he pops up before I do!!

Now onto the topic.....For HD I go with a 9mm pistol with a TLR1, I understand the whole revolver is easier debate but if i'm going to use it for defending my family I would want to be proficient in using the weapon, meaning training and range time.....The pistol gives you more rounds, easier reloads (to me) with more rounds, Better sights, Ability to mount a light, (cant shoot what you cant see).....My wife had never handled weapons of any kind prior to our marriage and I bought her a G26 and took her for some extensive training and within 2 weeks she could make headshots at HD ranges.


----------



## 2_dawgs

*shotgun*

get an 18/26" shotgun.  it will be a panic shot, so pellets have better chance of hit.  good point about neighbors.   around town i highly rec a S&W airweight in an ankle holster.


----------



## burkehunter

All I have to say is that perps should get on here and read because I wouldn't want to break into any house in georgia after reading all this.


----------



## scoggins

12 ga 000 buck shot

Shoot first and then ask ?'S


----------



## ejs1980

Fishing, you asked a good question and got some good answers. Some are contradicting and there are reasons. If you want a good gun for clearing your house room to room a pistol is more maneuverable. For that I would go with one od the glocks with a tactical light with momentary on/off mode. If you are in one room and want to stop someone from entering it's hard to beat a turkey load like mentioned above. It will punch through your bedroom door but will not travel through many walls. This is where it gets a little scary. Any gun you have stashed by your bed or in your nightstand drawer will likely be in an intruders hand in the event you come home during a intrusion.  So I guess you should have a pistol you take with you when you leave then wear it into the house when returning. Lock your shotgun up until bed time then put it away in the morning. This will protect you from would be theives. If someone knows the layout of your house and wants to harm you you really need to go with the dog. A good one will let you know someones there long before they get to the door.


----------



## red dragon

i say you go get you a cheap little old double barrel 12ga from a pawn shop and saw the barrels off and but some 00 buck shot in it that will solve your problem


----------



## dertiedawg

red dragon said:


> i say you go get you a cheap little old double barrel 12ga from a pawn shop and saw the barrels off and but some 00 buck shot in it that will solve your problem


It may solve one problem but will also create a whole slew of others. Federal Law prohibits the possession of sawed off shotguns unless you are active LEO in the line of duty or it is registered with the federal gov't.

§ 16-11-122.  Possession of sawed-off shotgun or rifle, machine gun, silencer, or dangerous weapon prohibited 

   No person shall have in his possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer except as provided in Code Section 16-11-124.

§ 16-11-124.  Exemptions from application of part 

   This part shall not apply to:

   (1) A peace officer of any duly authorized police agency of this state or of any political subdivision thereof, or a law enforcement officer of any department or agency of the United States who is regularly employed and paid by the United States, this state, or any such political subdivision, or an employee of the Department of Corrections of this state who is authorized in writing by the commissioner of corrections to transfer or possess such firearms while in the official performance of his duties;

   (2) A member of the National Guard or of the armed forces of the United States to wit: the army, navy, marine corps, air force, or coast guard who, while serving therein, possesses such firearm in the line of duty;

   (3) Any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer which has been modified or changed to the extent that it is inoperative. Examples of the requisite modification include weapons with their barrel or barrels filled with lead, hand grenades filled with sand, or other nonexplosive materials;

   (4) Possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer by a person who is authorized to possess the same because he has registered the sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer in accordance with the dictates of the National Firearms Act, 68A Stat. 725 (26 U.S.C. Sections 5841-5862); and

   (5) A security officer employed by a federally licensed nuclear power facility or a licensee of such facility, including a contract security officer, who is trained and qualified under a security plan approved by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission or other federal agency authorized to regulate nuclear facility security; provided, however, that this exemption shall apply only while such security officer is acting in connection with his or her official duties on the premises of such nuclear power facility or on properties outside the facility property pursuant to a written agreement entered into with the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the facility. The exemption under this paragraph does not include the possession of silencers.


----------



## scoggins

dont saw it off too short keep it legal and i recomend #4 shot it scatters alot more and there are more pellets in a 3.5" shell


----------



## Nitro

This place is eat up with misinformation and general ignorance........


----------



## mikef61

Just do as suggested and get a Taurus Judge, as I did, and be done with it!


----------



## CUTT'EM 76

tv_racin_fan said:


> bank, you don't generally try to kill geese at normal home defense range either.
> 
> I figure the perfect home defence setup is a short barreled 12 guage with side saddle and stock cuff (read that as one of those things that go on your stock that holds shells). I would load shot in the tube #6 seems a good size, buck shot in the side saddle and slugs in the stock cuff. Inside my home I'd be using the shot already in the tube. Should I need to address a target(s) outside the home then I have buck and slug right there with me ready to go. Then pattern your shotty at any range you are likely to need it. Be prepared to shoot as many times as it takes to stop the attacker. Pratice those reloads.



I agree w/ this.Birdshot is devastating in most indoor ranges.I've seen to many dead bodies shot w/ it.


----------



## LEON MANLEY

red dragon said:


> i say you go get you a cheap little old double barrel 12ga from a pawn shop and saw the barrels off and but some 00 buck shot in it that will solve your problem



There is no such thing as a cheap double barrel.


----------



## hawgrider1200

I was watching tv the other day, one of those informative shows on the Outdoor channel, I forget the name of it right now but, the fellas on the show were actually testing different cartridges to determine what objects in ur house might act as cover. They were shooting holes in a refridgerator. The point was it's not the object but what u r shooting at it that determines if the object is good cover. They shot a 9mm, 357, 00buck all the way through the refidgerator. I think that if they'd had that freezer all the way full of frozen meat they would have had different results. Point is when they shot the birdshot at the freezer they made one big hole in the first layer of the metal and in the second layer of the  metal. The birdshot did not penetrate the third layer of metal. So if u r looking for a load that will kill but has limited potential for overpenetration #4 birdshot is a good answer, long as u remember that u do have to aim.


----------



## hawgrider1200

LEON MANLEY said:


> There is no such thing as a cheap double barrel.


No there is not any cheap ones, U can buy a new Mossberg500 and equip it with an 18 inch barrel for the same money as u might invest in a used double barrel.
U would have 5 in the magazine too instead of being limited to two shots b4 u reload.


----------



## Huntinfool

hawgrider1200 said:


> I was watching tv the other day, one of those informative shows on the Outdoor channel, I forget the name of it right now but, the fellas on the show were actually testing different cartridges to determine what objects in ur house might act as cover. They were shooting holes in a refridgerator. The point was it's not the object but what u r shooting at it that determines if the object is good cover. They shot a 9mm, 357, 00buck all the way through the refidgerator. I think that if they'd had that freezer all the way full of frozen meat they would have had different results. Point is when they shot the birdshot at the freezer they made one big hole in the first layer of the metal and in the second layer of the  metal. The birdshot did not penetrate the third layer of metal. So if u r looking for a load that will kill but has limited potential for overpenetration #4 birdshot is a good answer, long as u remember that u do have to aim.



I saw the same show and was SHOCKED at the "slug" type hole that the bird shot made at close range.

You definitely have to aim it and I'ver since re-thought my leaning toward buckshot in a home defense shotgun.  Birdshot all the way at this point.


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## bobman

All of you would learn some things by seeing actual arms tested

this site does just that and they keep adding excellent articles and film clips

I learned a few things ...hope this helps some of you

http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm


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## bobman

and for you Judge fans heres a five page test

makes a good snake gun but not much else

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm


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## Huntinfool

"bird shot is for little birds"....


I'll stick with little birdy shot.  If I hit you with a round at 10 feet and you don't "stop".....I'll hit you with four more.  Let's see how far you get.

I don't want buckshot going through every wall in my house in a crisis situation.  I want what I shoot to pretty much stay in the room I'm shooting in.  I'm pretty well convinced that bird shot will do the job I'm looking for it to do.


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## bobman

the test was pertaining to the judge with bird shot so if thats what your using the badguy will not be stopped and if he has a weapon you will regret that decision 

If you have a 12 ga another test on the site says you wil be ok at 10 feet with birdshot not much further

the result you want is an immediate stop to prevent return fire, bird shot in a judge wont do that and its puny with both OO buck and a slug as well 

the Judge is a good example of a weapon designed to take marketing advantage of stereotypical hollywood nonsense instead of science 


A good LEO friend of mine shot a hopped up maniac with a Ithica 12 ga and OO buck three times inside a pizzahut and the guy chased him outside shooting at him with his handgun. The perp died about 20 minutes later after taking many more shots, really shook his faith in shotguns.

the point is if you dont drop the guy with the first shot you may not get then next sho off if hes armed and if he kills you and your family and then dies 30 minutes later you've still lost

the FBI well documented statistics claim the 357 mag 125 grain HP has the best one shot stop percentages if anyone cares for facts

I am not saying a 12ga at 10 feet wont do the job quite the opposite but the judge is a bad joke


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## buckfever14

Hey fishintiger,

For home protection I'd recommend a firearm that you can be proficient with.  I'm prior Marine Corps and Law Enforcement and I can say without a doubt in my mind that a pistol/handgun will be your best bet for home defense!

I see a lot of people at the range with huge caliber weapons that they can’t control while shooting at paper targets let alone an angry crack head in the middle of the night.  A lot of people automatically think bigger is better and that’s clearly not so.  You don’t want something too small but something in your comfort zone that has plenty of stopping power.

I carry a 9mm and I use Golddot Luger+P 124 GR ammunition, and believe me it licks like a horse and it’s controllable!

I have several weapons that I keep in tactical positions throughout my home in case of a break-in; A Kahr PM9 9mm, Berretta 92-fs 9mm, Glock 40, and my Taser.

A shotgun is just too cumbersome to maneuver room to room in a single family home.  If your gonna choose to protect your home with a shotgun than use slugs not bird shot.  If your life is in danger and god forbid you do have to protect yourself then you have to shoot to kill.

The last thing you want is a perp that is just wounded, because he still may have a chance to defend himself which you don’t want.

The last bit of advice I have is go to the range and practice, practice, and then practice more!


Be Safe....


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## MR.BIGBUCK

I will stay with my glock20 in 10mm and they can pick him up in pieces i hope. As far as bird shot use ooo buck at close range bad meds lol. the 410 with 00 buck is not bad at all but i would use the 12 gauge. But if some one comes in your house use anything you can get at that time. Most people do not set in there home with a gun strapped on there side and do not have one at every turn so i hope you can see them before they get in your door.  It only takes seconds to brake in and have you on a floor.


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## MR.BIGBUCK

I will stay with my glock20 in 10mm and they can pick him up in pieces i hope. As far as bird shot use ooo buck at close range bad meds lol. the 410 with 00 buck is not bad at all but i would use the 12 gauge. But if some one comes in your house use anything you can get at that time. Most people do not set in there home with a gun strapped on there side and do not have one at every turn so i hope you can see them before they get in your door.  It only takes seconds to brake in and have you on a floor.


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## Chris S.

bobman said:


> the test was pertaining to the judge with bird shot so if thats what your using the badguy will not be stopped and if he has a weapon you will regret that decision
> 
> If you have a 12 ga another test on the site says you wil be ok at 10 feet with birdshot not much further
> 
> the result you want is an immediate stop to prevent return fire, bird shot in a judge wont do that and its puny with both OO buck and a slug as well
> 
> the Judge is a good example of a weapon designed to take marketing advantage of stereotypical hollywood nonsense instead of science
> 
> 
> A good LEO friend of mine shot a hopped up maniac with a Ithica 12 ga and OO buck three times inside a pizzahut and the guy chased him outside shooting at him with his handgun. The perp died about 20 minutes later after taking many more shots, really shook his faith in shotguns.
> 
> the point is if you dont drop the guy with the first shot you may not get then next sho off if hes armed and if he kills you and your family and then dies 30 minutes later you've still lost
> 
> the FBI well documented statistics claim the 357 mag 125 grain HP has the best one shot stop percentages if anyone cares for facts
> 
> I am not saying a 12ga at 10 feet wont do the job quite the opposite but the judge is a bad joke



Birdshot can be quite nasty when close but A 45 long colt is not a joke by any means......... it has killed many a "badguy" and very quickly.







AMMUNITION BALLISTICS FOR: .45 Long Colt (Revolver)

  BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE 
CARTRIDGE WT. TYPE MFG (INCHES) MUZZ. 50 YDS. MUZZ. 50 YDS. TRAIL 
.45 Long Colt (revolver)
                            AMMUNITION BALLISTICS FOR: .45 Long Colt (Revolver)

  BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE 
CARTRIDGE WT. TYPE MFG (INCHES) MUZZ. 50 YDS. MUZZ. 50 YDS. TRAIL 
.45 Long Colt (Revolver) 150 #9 Shot (C) 5 1000 - - - -
(bullet)         (bbl.)       (vel.)     (energy.) (Traj. 30yds.)
200 JHP (CB) 4     1100 1022   537 464     0.9 

200 FMJ (C)    5        1000 938    444 391      1.3 

225 JHP (S)   5.5       920 877    423 384      1.4

225 LSW (R)  5         960 890    460 395      1.3 

250 LRN (S)  5.5       860 820    420 380      1.6 

250 FMJ-FP (P) N/A 800 766   355 326      1.7 

255 LRN (W) 5.5     800 763     362 329     1.6


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## FL Boat Guy

The Taurus Judge,  loaded with 410 slug/00 buckshot/slug/00 buckshot That is one Bad MAMA A JAMMA !!  Some day take one to a range and shoot a target and see what the exit looks like! WOW !


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## fulldraw74

bobman said:


> and for you Judge fans heres a five page test
> 
> makes a good snake gun but not much else
> 
> http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm



Exactly......Its fine for snakes but there is NO WAY i'm trusting mine or my families life to a .410 shot out of a short barrel (6" or less ) Now a 45 LC is a different story. 
FWIW...i own a judge and have shot just about every type of .410 round it will take (slugs, buckshot ,all sizes of birdshot) its not suited for home defense UNLESS that is all you have.


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## Huntinfool

bobman said:


> the test was pertaining to the judge with bird shot so if thats what your using the badguy will not be stopped and if he has a weapon you will regret that decision
> 
> If you have a 12 ga another test on the site says you wil be ok at 10 feet with birdshot not much further
> 
> the result you want is an immediate stop to prevent return fire, bird shot in a judge wont do that and its puny with both OO buck and a slug as well
> 
> the Judge is a good example of a weapon designed to take marketing advantage of stereotypical hollywood nonsense instead of science
> 
> 
> A good LEO friend of mine shot a hopped up maniac with a Ithica 12 ga and OO buck three times inside a pizzahut and the guy chased him outside shooting at him with his handgun. The perp died about 20 minutes later after taking many more shots, really shook his faith in shotguns.
> 
> the point is if you dont drop the guy with the first shot you may not get then next sho off if hes armed and if he kills you and your family and then dies 30 minutes later you've still lost
> 
> the FBI well documented statistics claim the 357 mag 125 grain HP has the best one shot stop percentages if anyone cares for facts
> 
> I am not saying a 12ga at 10 feet wont do the job quite the opposite but the judge is a bad joke



There is an article on that site you referenced using a 12 gauge and birdshot.  He gives some examples of people being shot with birdshot and not being killed....and then concludes that means birdshot is not effective for home defense.


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## bobman

Bird shot is a poor penetrator thats well docmented proven fact, not my opinion.

I'm not saying its harmless far from it but there are better choices. If my life is on the line I want the best oneshot stop. Birdshot has a proven poor record in this regard. 


If I wanted a 45 colt for defense I would get a good handgun for one and I agree its a powerful round but there are more modern rounds that are better. The 45 colt has the same documented rating as a .38 special for one shot stops. You rarely hear people say a .38 special is a particularly powerful handgun.

Heres some info about stop ratings and they are comparable to other studies I've seen. see the link these are gather from many actual shootings and not opinion. The FBI has done alot of study in this regard.

If all I had was a .22LR I would use it but if you are going to buy a gun for this purpose do your home work. 

The .357 mag with 125 grain JHPs has the best rating on humans, even better than a 44 mag which I found suprising.

I think the judge a gimmick unless you need a gun for snakes AND home defense then maybe it makes sense.

The test data for 410 slugs and the measly three 3 00 buck shot pieces has a very poor rating. I wouldn't buy one for defense and use those loads.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm


I would use my bow if thats all I had but it wouldn't be my first choice. 

I keep reading peoples posts that think a judge with a slug or a 00buck load is an impressive defense load and it clearly isn't, not even close to the best choice.  

Thats why I posted in the first place.


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## Huntinfool

All I'm saying is that if I hit you with birdshot from 10-20 feet, you are GOING to stop long enough for me to pump and hit you again....and again...and again...and again if needed.

I have a wife and three kids in my house.  In a dark room situation in the middle of the night I may or may not know where all four of those are.  If I identify an intruder in one room, I want my shot to stay in that room (or most of it).  If I have to shoot you five times to make sure you stay down, so be it.  But one will be enough to immobilize you momentarily for a follow-up...or four.

From 20 yards, yes, I agree, it's likely ineffective.  But from 10-20 ft, it hits with the same force and pattern as buck.....it just won't go through 7 layers of sheetrock.  I will give you that there are more "effective" options to make sure an intruder is DRT with one shot.  But those studies do not factor in the safety of the other occupants of the house and that is also a major concern/factor for me when choosing home defense options.


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## bobman

We agree then and everything in life is a trade off. 

I was really knocking the judge not birdshot out of a shotgun


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## Huntinfool

Yep, I got ya.  I'd love to just hit 'em with a 357....but I just think it's dangerous given other considerations and I think that is the limitation of a lot of studies that study "effectiveness" of a given round.  For the most part, they are only concerned with what will put a person on the ground fastest.

While that's certainly a good thing to know, I just think other things need to be taken into the "score" of a given option.


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## tv_racin_fan

I tend to think the size of the birdshot comes into play as well. I believe anything larger than a 6 would be good within my home. After that I am thinking either 00 buck or slug.


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## Jester896

Huntinfool said:


> All I'm saying is that if I hit you with birdshot from 10-20 feet, you are GOING to stop long enough for me to pump and hit you again....and again...and again...and again if needed.
> 
> I have a wife and three kids in my house.  In a dark room situation in the middle of the night I may or may not know where all four of those are.  If I identify an intruder in one room, I want my shot to stay in that room (or most of it).  If I have to shoot you five times to make sure you stay down, so be it.  But one will be enough to immobilize you momentarily for a follow-up...or four.
> 
> From 20 yards, yes, I agree, it's likely ineffective.  But from 10-20 ft, it hits with the same force and pattern as buck.....it just won't go through 7 layers of sheetrock.  I will give you that there are more "effective" options to make sure an intruder is DRT with one shot.  But those studies do not factor in the safety of the other occupants of the house and that is also a major concern/factor for me when choosing home defense options.



Aguila makes some short shot shells, 71/2, a buck mix, and slugs.  Two of them will fit where a 2 3/4 shell does.  I do not think the bird or buck will shoot through sheetrock, check the buck I'm not certain, the slug will however.  You will have twice the rounds in your pump.  Do check and make sure the feed correctly.


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## tullisfireball

rabbithound said:


> You are saying a .357 will not penetrate drywall? I am thinking mine would go through several layers of it .....never tried it though honestly. But I am sure I wouldnt be on the other side of it when someone was testing your theory. Not trying to be smarty pants here ....but I seriously doubt that a .357 will get stopped by drywall.
> 
> just my .02 .....
> 
> I will be trying this out on the next trip to the range or hunting club though.
> 
> I gotts to know



The tv show Best Defense has done several test on how bullets react when they pass through walls. Everything will pass through but not as bad as most people think. The .223 actually did not pass through as many layers as the handgun loads. They had it set up at the distances that are common in a house. 

I hear a lot of people talk about the myth that the sound of a shotgun being racked is enough to "scare" people away... do people actually think that someone who has made up their minds they are coming into a house no matter what, will leave because of a sound? Get any gun you are comfortable with, and practice with it and remember a gun can not help you if you do not have it when you need it. In other words it is not that much security in the back of a closet, you have to have with you.

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/shows/BestDefense.aspx


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## hayseed_theology

Sting'em! said:


> I seem to be in the minority here, but if you are new to handguns I would reccomend a pistol, NOT a revolver.  To me, a revolver takes a little more skill to shoot and if you factor in you only have 6 shots...well...18 is more than 6...and while a revolver is 100% reliable, lets be real guys...a Glock (for instance) is going to go BANG everytime you pull the trigger.  No need to get a hand cannon!
> 
> I have a Glock 22 (.40 cal) with a Glock tactical light/laser on it...the ultimate nightstand gun.



Bad call.  It's a known problem that a .40 cal Glock (the 22 in particular) does not do well with a light mounted on it.  Some are fine, but I think this has been Glock's biggest issue as far a reliability.

Here's a thread on a law enforcement forum about it:

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=85284


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## RLFaler

1st choice:  Mossberg 500 12 ga pump .00
2nd.  My Dan Wesson .357 DA revolver.
3rd. My AR 15 Eotech Sites and a 30 Rd clip to take out the rest of the posse as they run across the front yard back to their Escalade.


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## Kendallbearden

fishingtiger said:


> Not really hunting related but I am looking for a pistol to keep in the house. I live in downtown ATL and things seem to be heating up around here with the violent crime.
> 
> I wanted to hear some recommendations. I shot a s&w 357 revolver this past weekend but i am not sure if i should get a revolver or not.



I stongly suggest a revolver. I keep a .357 mag. myself for home defense. Semi-autos can be unreliable sometimes, though I do carry a Bersa 380 acp sometimes.


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## rkwrichard

I keep a Coach Gun and a Glock ready to rock and roll.


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## Ohoopee Tusker

I know of a wild, grown, lioness that was shot and killed at close range with bird shot. The shot almost blew the head off. As for me I think the .357 is a great choice, just as the OP selected. Besides a handgun I keep a 20 ga. loaded with buckshot in the corner.


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