# Duck Hole Project



## BULL SPRIG 88 (Jan 28, 2013)

Wanted to get some input/feedback on a new duck hole I'd like to create on my farm.  In a nutshell, the existing area is a low cypress/tupelo area with no feeder creek, running water, etc.  It seems to hold shin deep water pretty close to year round.  We've mostly got wood ducks using adjacent swamps and we've been passing shooting a few here and there.  They have been flying over this area on the farm and I have seen a couple light in there.

I want to open up the trees (maybe an acre in size) with a chainsaw and would love to put in a plot but doubt the water will get low enough to allow for Jap millet.  I am guessing my options are transporting smartweed or possibly planting some rice.  I read where Pennington's duck rice can be planted in 6" of standing water.

Here's the question: Anybody opened up a similar type wood duck hole and what have you had success with (other than slinging corn)?  Here's a photo of the area:


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## Vmarsh (Jan 28, 2013)

ive worked on a few. just try to open up some holes, try to control the water in some fashion, and get plenty of food in there. its a fun endeavor. keep us updated.


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## swamprat93 (Jan 29, 2013)

I did alot of cutting on our swamp but have never planted anything. It was something fun to do, just make sure you go ahead and start if your going to so you dont have to worry about snakes as much


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## BULL SPRIG 88 (Jan 29, 2013)

Unfortunately, I don't think we're gonna be able to control the water so I was hoping someone may have experience working in an area that holds shin deep water year round.  Anyone have ideas on what to plant?

Oh...and the snakes...I agree I am not fond of Mr. No Shoulders either and have been wearing waders with snake chaps over them in that spot and will be doing so during the next couple of months of cutting!


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## waddler (Jan 29, 2013)

Stagnant areas can grow Duck Weed and Dollar Pads. There are micro organisms called Dapne ???, (or something like that ) which can be bought and put in the pond if it never dries up.

Selective cutting of trees around the area to favor Water Oaks will help. Woodies and Mallards will feed on acorns on dry land near water.


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## Killer Kyle (Jan 29, 2013)

Maybe a few duck boxes to get them in the area?!


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## BULL SPRIG 88 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah, we'll definitely be putting in some wood duck boxes this spring.  Might miss this year's breeding ducks but they'll be in place for next year.  The current schedule is to begin cutting trees in early March and clean up the fallen timber as best we can.  Our first goal is to open it up a bit so there is a landing area.

Since we can't control the water levels, I guess we're gonna have to work with what we've got.  We'll try to put in some Jap millet if the water level drops (but doubt it will).  I guess our only other option is to plant aquatic species like duckweed.  I have heard that it can overtake an entire area though.  

Anyone have any input on the best thing to put in this hole assuming the water level doesn't recede?  Rice (which I've heard requires a lot of manipulation and care)? Duckweed?


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## ThunderRoad (Jan 29, 2013)

Just plant corn around the edges of the water


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## labradoodle (Jan 29, 2013)

corn doesnt seem like it will work well there, not enough sunlight, the bagged variety yes. i vote millet'


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## Buckseye (Jan 29, 2013)

I used to hunt a beaver swamp that looked exactly like your picture. We got water that would come up to the waist but we cleared about a half acre in there and the wood duck numbers nearly doubled the following year and that is without planting. 

Not sure if you're planning on building a blind or not but we didn't have the resources to build one so we just cut the trees at chest height and would build up some brush and just stand close to them. It works if you are only hunting with a small group otherwise there's the risk of crossfire.

And another tip that took us a year to figure out. May not be a problem in only shin deep water but our swamp would dry up each summer so we cut down a boat load to open it up. Then come hunting season we had about 45 trees to climb over to get to our hole... Not exactly ideal for wanting to be in the blind by 6:15. So if you're consistently shin deep water no worries but on the off chance you get a little more rain one month, cut your trees up into manageable logs and make a path. Saves time and frustration. Keep us updated with pictures and best of luck with the planting. I never could get anything to grow well.


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## MudDucker (Jan 30, 2013)

Time and money cures all ills.  Clear a hole and bring in some smartweed and duckweed.


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## mbentle2 (Jan 30, 2013)

I have cleared out holes for more open water before and it will help. You could use the logs and limbs to make a blind. Also dont cut any oaks and you could thin the edges a little to help the oaks out but i wouldnt thin to much.


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## Flaustin1 (Jan 30, 2013)

Open it up, cut a ditch and build a gate.  plant it.  when whatever you plant matures, close the gate and pray for rain.  Its a risk but it can have great rewards.


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## hoytslanger87 (Jan 30, 2013)

Moist soil managment. Cut out some holes drain the water let the natural plants growthen flood it in the fall.


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## BULL SPRIG 88 (Jan 30, 2013)

The challenge with this area is twofold:

1) In total, it's about a 10 acre low area.  7 acres are on our farm that we own.  The other 3 acres is a finger onto someone else's property so I can't really manipulate the water to drain for planting.

2) There is no water source to flood with should the level drop enough to plant millet, sorghum, etc.  It is simply a low depressed area that catches groundwater runoff.  Not to mention it would be extremely difficult to even get a 4 wheeler in there to scratch the dirt.  Also doubt the soils are too good and are highly acidic.

Thanks for the ideas guys.  Sounds like our best bet is gonna be to open up a hole and maybe transplant some duckweed and smartgrass if possible.  We'll sling some millet around the edges of the little islands if possible.


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## bonecollector (Jan 30, 2013)

also if you get a good population of woodies they have a way of helping plant duck weed naturally by evertime they fly from there roost or wherever has it is attached to there body and wings cut a few trees open a hole and wait


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## carolinagreenhead (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm no expert but wouldn't part of what is keeping the water in there the current cover of the trees? If you take them out then the water will evaporate faster, especially in the summer months when rain gets a bit more scarce. I do agree you would have to open it up to get the ducks in there but without water control you might have an uncontrolled evaporation problem.


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## BULL SPRIG 88 (Jan 30, 2013)

I wondered about evaporation but think since we aren't opening up a huge area and since it is shin deep now and we haven't had too much rain in that area recently we should be ok. We will leave a lot of trees and plan on only opening up enough for passing ducks to see the decoys and a mojo for some motion.  If it does get real low...then we'll plant millet and pray for rain.


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## The Fever (Jan 30, 2013)

waddler said:


> Stagnant areas can grow Duck Weed and Dollar Pads. There are micro organisms called Dapne ???, (or something like that ) which can be bought and put in the pond if it never dries up.
> 
> Selective cutting of trees around the area to favor Water Oaks will help. Woodies and Mallards will feed on acorns on dry land near water.



Daphne are rotifers and are perfectly capable of surviving drought. They go into a stress induced form that can survive in dry soil for 60-80 years and expand quickly after water is reintroduced. Keep in mind that cutting the trees will affect the water levels in there. I would keep it simple. Open a one acre area. Do not plant. The increased sunlight will allow dollar weed to grow and if you want to increase this productivity then grab a 5 gallon bucket of the weed in water and pour it in. Also invest in the microorganisms. They will be important to help in the conversion of organic matter on the bottom of that slew into creating an environment suitable for ducks. This will give you a great start and keep investments at a minimum.


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## The Fever (Jan 30, 2013)

carolinagreenhead said:


> I'm no expert but wouldn't part of what is keeping the water in there the current cover of the trees? If you take them out then the water will evaporate faster, especially in the summer months when rain gets a bit more scarce. I do agree you would have to open it up to get the ducks in there but without water control you might have an uncontrolled evaporation problem.



The concept makes sense but he will have more water because there will be a lot of trees that will no longer be drinking from the soil. We are only talking about a surface area of 10 percent opened up and it will also help to have duck weed. This will insulate the water and protect it.


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## across the river (Jan 31, 2013)

BULL SPRIG 88 said:


> The challenge with this area is twofold:
> 
> 1) In total, it's about a 10 acre low area.  7 acres are on our farm that we own.  The other 3 acres is a finger onto someone else's property so I can't really manipulate the water to drain for planting.
> 
> ...



If you can clear out a big enough area in the middle  to get some sun light you can possibly look into planting banana water lilies.  I know they are usually planted a little deeper than a foot or two, but you could try a few and see how it goes.  Ducks will eat the lilliy parts and they create habitat for invertebrates.  Not being able to drain it would not be a problem.   You should be able to find some more information


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## fowl player (Feb 4, 2013)

will daphne the micro organism yall bring up hurt or in anyway alter a trophy bass pond? i have permission to hunt a pont but cant introduce weed into it because of the monster bass we catch out of it and dont get me wrong i dont want to hurt them but am looking for a safe alternative to increase the duck population. do ducks eat the daphne or does it just promote growth?


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## The Fever (Feb 5, 2013)

fowl player said:


> will daphne the micro organism yall bring up hurt or in anyway alter a trophy bass pond? i have permission to hunt a pont but cant introduce weed into it because of the monster bass we catch out of it and dont get me wrong i dont want to hurt them but am looking for a safe alternative to increase the duck population. do ducks eat the daphne or does it just promote growth?




no they consume primary producers.....a link up the food chain between bacteria and minnows....minnows feed bass....


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## across the river (Feb 6, 2013)

fowl player said:


> will daphne the micro organism yall bring up hurt or in anyway alter a trophy bass pond? i have permission to hunt a pont but cant introduce weed into it because of the monster bass we catch out of it and dont get me wrong i dont want to hurt them but am looking for a safe alternative to increase the duck population. do ducks eat the daphne or does it just promote growth?



Daphnia are microscopic organism and aren't eaten by ducks.  I think you are talking about scuds (fresh water shrimp).  You could put them in the pond, but the small fish would most likely eat them all before the ducks could get to them.  Unless you cultured them yourselves you would probably spend a fortune to get enough to amount to anything.  I personally think it would be a waste of time and money.


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## The Fever (Feb 6, 2013)

across the river said:


> Daphnia are microscopic organism and aren't eaten by ducks.  I think you are talking about scuds (fresh water shrimp).  You could put them in the pond, but the small fish would most likely eat them all before the ducks could get to them.  Unless you cultured them yourselves you would probably spend a fortune to get enough to amount to anything.  I personally think it would be a waste of time and money.



That is hardly the case. Daphnia are prolific and very quick reproducers. Chances are if there are small fish there are already daphnia present. They are a common freshwater bodies of water. Copepods are eaten by ducks for sure. However, I was making the suggestion that there may be a need to expedite the transition of peat on the bottom of that swamp into a food chain.


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## across the river (Feb 6, 2013)

The Fever said:


> That is hardly the case. Daphnia are prolific and very quick reproducers. Chances are if there are small fish there are already daphnia present. They are a common freshwater bodies of water. Copepods are eaten by ducks for sure. However, I was making the suggestion that there may be a need to expedite the transition of peat on the bottom of that swamp into a food chain.



Daphnia (water fleas) are present in most bodies of water. You could have a pond absolutely full of them and that isn't go in going to translate into high duck numbers.   They are not the same thing as fresh water shrimp (scuds), which ducks do specifically target.  They are more like small crayfish, and if there isn't ample cover or vegetation in the pond, the fish will eat most of them.  We are talking about two different things.


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## The Fever (Feb 7, 2013)

across the river said:


> Daphnia (water fleas) are present in most bodies of water. You could have a pond absolutely full of them and that isn't go in going to translate into high duck numbers.   They are not the same thing as fresh water shrimp (scuds), which ducks do specifically target.  They are more like small crayfish, and if there isn't ample cover or vegetation in the pond, the fish will eat most of them.  We are talking about two different things.



Dude, you need to think through the process. We start with a high organic dark water in the swamp. The first transition will be blue green algae and bacteria to colonize, after this they will be consumed by secondary organisms one such is known as Daphnia. Now suggest we have a pond full of organic matter with low secondary organisms, will that attract ducks. No. However introduce Daphnia which will consume the bacteria as they are filter feeders. Now we are going to attract scud, and these scud will attract ducks. My good sir look at the overall circle next time.


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## across the river (Feb 8, 2013)

The Fever said:


> Dude, you need to think through the process. We start with a high organic dark water in the swamp. The first transition will be blue green algae and bacteria to colonize, after this they will be consumed by secondary organisms one such is known as Daphnia. Now suggest we have a pond full of organic matter with low secondary organisms, will that attract ducks. No. However introduce Daphnia which will consume the bacteria as they are filter feeders. Now we are going to attract scud, and these scud will attract ducks. My good sir look at the overall circle next time.



Dude, you are confusing two different posts.  The original post showed water in dark water swamp.  Another guy asked about putting Daphnia in a fishing pond to attract ducks,and that was the post you and I were responding to at the time.   He asked if he could put Daphnia in the pond to attract ducks, he wasn't asking about the circle of life.   You can buy scuds to put into a pond for ducks, but it would probably be a waste of time if it has a lot of fish in it.  That was my response.   If you want to explain to the "overall circle", knock yourself out.   I was just trying to answer his question, good sir.


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## The Fever (Feb 10, 2013)

across the river said:


> Dude, you are confusing two different posts.  The original post showed water in dark water swamp.  Another guy asked about putting Daphnia in a fishing pond to attract ducks,and that was the post you and I were responding to at the time.   He asked if he could put Daphnia in the pond to attract ducks, he wasn't asking about the circle of life.   You can buy scuds to put into a pond for ducks, but it would probably be a waste of time if it has a lot of fish in it.  That was my response.   If you want to explain to the "overall circle", knock yourself out.   I was just trying to answer his question, good sir.



I stand corrected....A thousand apologies brother....


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