# Neuter or Not?



## one_shot_no_mor (May 16, 2011)

I'm debating getting my duck partner neutered.  Let's hear the pros and cons of how neutering can affect the performance of a trained retriever...


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## browning84 (May 16, 2011)

how old is the dog?


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## NGaHunter (May 16, 2011)

There is no difference in performance.  At least there wasn't in mine


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## meckardt (May 16, 2011)

Are you a 100% sure you will never want to breed him? There are tons of stories out there where people neutered and then a few years down the road said " I wish I didn't do it". Just a thought 

Read this other post
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68981&highlight=Neuter+male+dog


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## king killer delete (May 16, 2011)

*had mine done*

The only problem with my partner was not a dog.   My partner is Lance Miller


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## king killer delete (May 16, 2011)

*I dont think it will hurt his performance*



one_shot_no_mor said:


> I'm debating getting my duck partner neutered.  Let's hear the pros and cons of how neutering can affect the performance of a trained retriever...


 He may never forgive you.


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## B.Hud (May 16, 2011)

when a dog is neutered his metabolism decreases by 50% and his appetite increases by 50% so just be careful how you feed him otherwise he will get fat on you


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## king killer delete (May 16, 2011)

B.Hud said:


> when a dog is neutered his metabolism decreases by 50% and his appetite increases by 50% so just be careful how you feed him otherwise he will get fat on you


good info I never knew this


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## one_shot_no_mor (May 18, 2011)

browning84 said:


> how old is the dog?


He's nine months old.  *********** is training him.  He won't be finished until August - September.


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## one_shot_no_mor (May 18, 2011)

*Thanks...*

Thanks for the replies!
I'll probably wait awhile before making a decision.  I just don't want to see him get lazy and lose his drive if I decide to get him "fixed".


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## browning84 (May 18, 2011)

one_shot_no_mor said:


> He's nine months old.  *********** is training him.  He won't be finished until August - September.



I personally would wait until he is fully matured which IMO is 3-4 years


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## Woods Savvy (May 18, 2011)

browning84 said:


> I personally would wait until he is fully matured which IMO is 3-4 years



i agree with browning, unless theres something hes doing theres no reason.


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## meckardt (Jun 26, 2011)

Hahaha


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## gonehuntin (Jun 26, 2011)

*really*



B.Hud said:


> when a dog is neutered his metabolism decreases by 50% and his appetite increases by 50% so just be careful how you feed him otherwise he will get fat on you



Where did you get this info from?


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## DUhollywood1 (Jun 26, 2011)

one_shot_no_mor said:


> He's nine months old.  *********** is training him.  He won't be finished until August - September.



Regardless of the trainer the dog would have to be a freak of nature to be a "finished" dog at 11-12 months. And if he is finished at that age I would def wait until he was 2 and get his health clearances before I got him neutered.


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## B.Hud (Jun 26, 2011)

gonehuntin said:


> Where did you get this info from?



a man who put on a seminar about diabetic pets( it was a continuing education course) 

JNW may back me up... he was there too


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## gonehuntin (Jun 27, 2011)

B.Hud said:


> a man who put on a seminar about diabetic pets( it was a continuing education course)
> 
> JNW may back me up... he was there too



I was aware there was a possible increase in obesity, but i'm still speculative about an increase in appetite...

Here's a really interesting article on the subject...
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

I feel that most cases of obesity can be traced to the pet owner.

Were the numbers you were told about diabetic dogs?


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## B.Hud (Jun 28, 2011)

gonehuntin said:


> I was aware there was a possible increase in obesity, but i'm still speculative about an increase in appetite...
> 
> Here's a really interesting article on the subject...
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
> ...



i agree most cases of pet obesity can be traced to owners over feeding there dogs 

as far as the statistics, thats just what the guy told everyone who attended, wish i had some harder evidence but oh well. il look later tonight and see if i can find anything but for now its off to school


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## JNW (Jun 28, 2011)

B.Hud said:


> when a dog is neutered his metabolism decreases by 50% and his appetite increases by 50% so just be careful how you feed him otherwise he will get fat on you





gonehuntin said:


> Where did you get this info from?





B.Hud said:


> a man who put on a seminar about diabetic pets( it was a continuing education course)
> 
> JNW may back me up... he was there too





gonehuntin said:


> I was aware there was a possible increase in obesity, but i'm still speculative about an increase in appetite...
> 
> Here's a really interesting article on the subject...
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
> ...





B.Hud said:


> i agree most cases of pet obesity can be traced to owners over feeding there dogs
> 
> as far as the statistics, thats just what the guy told everyone who attended, wish i had some harder evidence but oh well. il look later tonight and see if i can find anything but for now its off to school



The information B.Hud received was from a continuing education course on PZI (an insulin based company).  The gentleman who gave the information regarding the decrease in metabolism and increase in appetite did not state any correlation between that and diabetic dogs alone.  One can only assume that he was speaking in general terms.

What B.Hud has said is accurate.  Even the article that you provided suggests it.  In the article, Laura Sanborn states that a dog is three times as likely to become obese after neutering.  This is partially due to a decrease in metabolism, yes.  However, other articles suggest that a change in appetite does occur, such as this one from the APSCA:

http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/45/How-Will-Neutering-Change-My-Dog.aspx

and this one from Dr. Holly Frisby, DVM, MS:

http://www.allaboutdogsandcats.com/Health/ObesityInDogsCauses.html

Both of the above articles state that an increase in appetite occurs.  And it makes sense.  After a dog loses the testosterone level he once had before being neutered, the drive to reproduce decreases.  So, what else is there to do if you can't reproduce besides eat.

Of course obesity can ALWAYS be traced back to the pet owner, whether the dog is neutered or not.  The owner is the one who controls how much food is put in the food dish and what kind of food is fed. 

Anyway, B.Hud suggested to the original poster to be cautious about how much he feeds his dog after neutering him.  The numbers he provided were from a continuing education course on canine obesity and diabetes that we both took.  Either way, it is true that once a dog is neutered, whether it be a metabolic change or change in appetite, you have to be very cautious about how much you feed him.   I assure you, the dog will eat whatever you put in his food dish.


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## tylerm94 (Jun 29, 2011)

in my opinion its not a good idea because we had our dog nuetered when he was young and after that he wanted nothing to with retrieving i dont know if turned him down to many notches or what but all he does now is lay around and EAT!


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## Killin Time (Jun 29, 2011)

Just a thought good male dogs are a gold mine why would you want to throw that away but then again if he was finished in 12 months I could see why......


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## Supercracker (Jun 29, 2011)

I got talked into it by my GF at the time. Now I wish I hadn't.


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## USMC0844 (Jul 4, 2011)

My wife made me get mine done before he went to training. I'm not sure about the 50% decrease in exercise and 50% increase in appetite, however I do have to monitor his eating (him being a lab). As far as training goes, he appeared to do fine. Tim1980 trained him and I was and still am very pleased with the results. I wish that I hadn't gotten it done for reasons of breeding but it does not appear to have affected his performance or drive in the least.


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## USMC0844 (Jul 4, 2011)

USMC0844 said:


> My wife made me get mine done before he went to training. I'm not sure about the 50% decrease in exercise and 50% increase in appetite, however I do have to monitor his eating (him being a lab). As far as training goes, he appeared to do fine. Tim1980 trained him and I was and still am very pleased with the results. I wish that I hadn't gotten it done for reasons of breeding but it does not appear to have affected his performance or drive in the least.



scuse me. 50%decrease in metabolism. I was thinking too fast for my fingers t type.


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## mdhall (Jul 6, 2011)

My dog was neutered as soon as he was old enough. He's a pure bred chocolate lab that is a trained retriever. Just don't over feed him and he won't get fat, they still require exercise and aren't going to give it to themselves even in a huge pen. I don't think it's affected his drive since he's all about ducks and anything else that flies. He even tracked a deer for me last year. He's also not aggressive at all toward other dogs or around his food. He doesn't like men around my wife or anyone around my truck though. He's 3 1/2 now and in good shape.


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## king killer delete (Jul 15, 2011)

*We know you cant count*



USMC0844 said:


> scuse me. 50%decrease in metabolism. I was thinking too fast for my fingers t type.


 With out your combat boots off.LOL/LOL/


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## BigCountry19 (Jul 15, 2011)

Had my dog done at 2 yrs.........still lean and eager to retrieve at 10 years old now.


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## BassHunter25 (Jul 15, 2011)

I had it done on my last lab when he was old enough because all my labs before him rambled and kept getting me fines.  I always regretted getting my last lab neutered because he was beautiful and smart.  But I will say I did not even have to shut the gate and he stayed at the house.  He was a bit on the lazy side.  He would go all out to get the bird, but took his time coming back, But he always came straight back and I couldnt complain.


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## RUTTNBUCK (Aug 3, 2011)

Folks if you had a post deleted here tonight consider it a Unofficial warning!! Comments were way off topic, and bordering on bashing.........Some were just collateral Damage for the Quote.........I encourage everyone to read the forum rules........Here is a link

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=350414

Hope I don't have to take this to the next level with anyone involved here tonight........It's up to you

Post wisely, and enjoy the forum


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## ChickInATree (Aug 3, 2011)

I haven't heard of this '50% decrease in metabolism' thing. My dog (see avatar) though not a lab, was fixed at 18mos, had no drop in activity level, he's still 15lbs UNDER weight (not for lack of trying to fatten him up!) and his drive to train is incredible. Any time we go to the dog park, he still plays the 'alpha dog', even if he has nothing to show.  
I completely agree with whoever said that canine obesity can be traced back to the owner, just be responsible with his feeding.


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## one_shot_no_mor (Aug 6, 2011)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for all the feedback...

....with the exception of the *********** bashing...

I have decided to definitely wait a couple of years to see how my dog does.  I may let him "stud" a couple of times and see how the pups turn out, as well.

I truly appreciate all the opinions (related to the original post) that you guys provided!


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## one_shot_no_mor (Feb 24, 2012)

*Update...*

My dog, Chase, is 18 months old now.  We had a good season and he "gets it" and loves it!
I think I will wait at least another season before I get him neutered.  Again, thanks for all the feedback...


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## across the river (Feb 24, 2012)

one_shot_no_mor said:


> I'm debating getting my duck partner neutered.  Let's hear the pros and cons of how neutering can affect the performance of a trained retriever...



Neutering the dog will not affect the dogs performance or reduce his drive to retrieve.  That is a genetic trait and not one based on hormones.  I don't see any negatives.  Obviously you want be able to breed him, but I personally think breeding is something best left to people who do it for a living.  Your looking for a hunting companion and not a stud, so like I said, I don't see any negatives.


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