# Any one running the 37efi mudbuddy?



## rnelson5 (Feb 17, 2015)

I am just curious as to your thoughts on how it compares to the standard carb ran motors. I just got my quote back from Prodigy and am debating between this and the 4500. Mud buddy is giving a free BPS Q muffler when you buy the EFI motor right now plus it is $1000 cheaper. It is just a thought.


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## wray912 (Feb 17, 2015)

carb motors are eaiser to work on imo if you work on your own stuff(why i have an older motor an plan on keepin it that way)


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## derek054 (Feb 17, 2015)

I have been on the debate of the 37efi mb but I would end up having to do some major modifications to my transom. I'm not sure my boat would hold up to the abuse of a big block plus the 315lbs of it.  I'm am going the route of the gtr25. lighter motor and from all the reviews on a 1648 and 1646 they are getting around the 25mph right where I want to be.

I like carbs because I can work on them if there is a problem but the hassle free of efi sounds nice too. It is alot to think about and it has drove me crazy. I will probably run the gtr25 for a yr or 2 and sale my whole rig and upgrade to a mb37 or the gtr37


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 17, 2015)

If I were to plan on a "forever stock" motor, I would go with the Efi.  The Briggs Efi isn't self mapping like the aftermarket one pro drive uses.  The Eco-tron Efi unit that PD uses will adjust itself when you add heads and/or a cam.  The factory Briggs is set to a certain rpm and will not adjust for any mods.


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## king killer delete (Feb 17, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> If I were to plan on a "forever stock" motor, I would go with the Efi.  The Briggs Efi isn't self mapping like the aftermarket one pro drive uses.  The Eco-tron Efi unit that PD uses will adjust itself when you add heads and/or a cam.  The factory Briggs is set to a certain rpm and will not adjust for any mods.


Please explain this to those guys that do not run mud motors.


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 17, 2015)

Carb motors are easily modded.  The jets and air/fuel mix screw are how you adjust for adding mods (like decking, porting, and polishing heads for more compression and adding a cam for more valve duration for opening/closing). The stock Briggs Efi, which is brand new on the market) uses a computer program for air/fuel mix, amount of fuel to injectors, etc. this program is set, and without a way to reprogram it, doing any mods are useless and possibly harmful to your motor.  
A lot of folks running mud motors add these mods to get more speed and load carrying capacity.


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## thompsonsz71 (Feb 17, 2015)

I plan on going with a gtr 37


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## king killer delete (Feb 17, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> Carb motors are easily modded.  The jets and air/fuel mix screw are how you adjust for adding mods (like decking, porting, and polishing heads for more compression and adding a cam for more valve duration for opening/closing). The stock Briggs Efi, which is brand new on the market) uses a computer program for air/fuel mix, amount of fuel to injectors, etc. this program is set, and without a way to reprogram it, doing any mods are useless and possibly harmful to your motor.
> A lot of folks running mud motors add these mods to get more speed and load carrying capacity.


Ok I understand. Thanks


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## rnelson5 (Feb 17, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> Carb motors are easily modded.  The jets and air/fuel mix screw are how you adjust for adding mods (like decking, porting, and polishing heads for more compression and adding a cam for more valve duration for opening/closing). The stock Briggs Efi, which is brand new on the market) uses a computer program for air/fuel mix, amount of fuel to injectors, etc. this program is set, and without a way to reprogram it, doing any mods are useless and possibly harmful to your motor.
> A lot of folks running mud motors add these mods to get more speed and load carrying capacity.


Makes sense on why they are not offering it on the 4500 then.


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## Barroll (Feb 17, 2015)

1. I would get a Gatortail over a mb (yes I have owned both)
2. I would get efi over carb and leave it stock


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 17, 2015)

thompsonsz71 said:


> I plan on going with a gtr 37



You won't be disappointed.  I've owned a mb, 2 pro drives, a copperhead, and 2 gtr's.  Until something new and much improved comes out, I'll stick with a gtr.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 17, 2015)

What makes the gtr so much better? It seems like a Ford Chevy thing to me. I know a guy that put over 700 hours on a mud buddy in about 7 years with only very minor problems. why do gtr guys hate mud buddy's so much? I am not biased  by the way because I have never owned either.


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## Barroll (Feb 17, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> What makes the gtr so much better? It seems like a Ford Chevy thing to me. I know a guy that put over 700 hours on a mud buddy in about 7 years with only very minor problems. why do gtr guys hate mud buddy's so much? I am not biased  by the way because I have never owned either.



mud buddy as a company has the worst quality control I have ever seen. I honestly feel like if they are out of a certain part and the motor can still function they will just send it out and hope for the best. They do not do any r&d on any of their products. They design and build it, market it, and sell it. Customers do the testing and often pay the price. Case and point, sport v and h. They collected deposits from paying customers years before the motors were actually ready for market. Heck, they don't even make the h anymore. The whole company is a "better than thou" mentality. I'm not about that. I am done with my rant on the company. 

For the motors: same power head we all know. I do think that Gatortail has thought out their electrical system a little more. If you get a mb, be ready to change out trim switches after a few years. They are not water tight. Breakers going bad. Trims going bad. I think Gatortail makes a simpler, more reliable unit. Not so sure about gatortails new cast outdrives, but their old ones are rock solid. 

Pro drive makes a solid unit also. 

I'm sure some folks will say they have had a mb and never had an issue, but these are my experiences.


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## drdarby45 (Feb 17, 2015)

Barroll said:


> mud buddy as a company has the worst quality control I have ever seen. I honestly feel like if they are out of a certain part and the motor can still function they will just send it out and hope for the best. They do not do any r&d on any of their products. They design and build it, market it, and sell it. Customers do the testing and often pay the price. Case and point, sport v and h. They collected deposits from paying customers years before the motors were actually ready for market. Heck, they don't even make the h anymore. The whole company is a "better than thou" mentality. I'm not about that. I am done with my rant on the company.
> 
> For the motors: same power head we all know. I do think that Gatortail has thought out their electrical system a little more. If you get a mb, be ready to change out trim switches after a few years. They are not water tight. Breakers going bad. Trims going bad. I think Gatortail makes a simpler, more reliable unit. Not so sure about gatortails new cast outdrives, but their old ones are rock solid.
> 
> ...



Looks like a mud buddy in your picture cuz !


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 18, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> What makes the gtr so much better? It seems like a Ford Chevy thing to me. I know a guy that put over 700 hours on a mud buddy in about 7 years with only very minor problems. why do gtr guys hate mud buddy's so much? I am not biased  by the way because I have never owned either.



I don't hate mud buddy, in fact their hyper motors are really solid.  But a gtr has reverse.....simple as that.  The sport models have it, but have had many problems and in my opinion are untested.  Is reverse a convenience?  Yes.  Is it so much of a convenience to where I will buy a brand that has it over one that doesn't?  Yes.


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## dom (Feb 18, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> You won't be disappointed.  I've owned a mb, 2 pro drives, a copperhead, and 2 gtr's.  Until something new and much improved comes out, I'll stick with a gtr.



i'm curious what you think about the boss drives. 

I'm interested to see how they hold up over the next few years but think they could be in a good position to be the best option on the market. potential downfalls are price (boy are they expensive) and longevity of the lower unit.


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## Barroll (Feb 18, 2015)

drdarby45 said:


> Looks like a mud buddy in your picture cuz !



Good observation pledge


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## Blue Petes (Feb 18, 2015)

Barroll said:


> Good observation pledge



lol


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## Gaducker (Feb 18, 2015)

dom said:


> i'm curious what you think about the boss drives.
> 
> I'm interested to see how they hold up over the next few years but think they could be in a good position to be the best option on the market. potential downfalls are price (boy are they expensive) and longevity of the lower unit.



I think when that mercury outdrive tears up outside of warranty its gona make the owner want to cry outloud AND slap his old lady for lettin him buy it.


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 18, 2015)

dom said:


> i'm curious what you think about the boss drives.
> 
> I'm interested to see how they hold up over the next few years but think they could be in a good position to be the best option on the market. potential downfalls are price (boy are they expensive) and longevity of the lower unit.





Gaducker said:


> I think when that mercury outdrive tears up outside of warranty its gona make the owner want to cry outloud AND slap his old lady for lettin him buy it.



Both of y'all sound about right IMO


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## dom (Feb 19, 2015)

Gaducker said:


> I think when that mercury outdrive tears up outside of warranty its gona make the owner want to cry outloud AND slap his old lady for lettin him buy it.



exactly why i'd give them some time to prove that it'll work.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 19, 2015)

It is not normal how much I have been obsessively looking at mud boats and motors!! I have to get rid of my boat first and then I will be getting one built. I think I am going to go with the MB 4500. Everyone that I have talked to that owns them has nothing bad to say about them and the extra power is worth more than the reverse to me. My wife was in another room last night and I clicked on a youtube video and just by the sound she says "how many mud boat videos can one one person stand to watch!!"........... But on a totally unrelated note she did call me a couple days ago all excited because she saw a group of birds go down in a pond on the side of the road. She turned around to see what they were and then goes...... ohh...... they are just hoodies....... Proud husband moment!!!


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## caver101 (Feb 19, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> If I were to plan on a "forever stock" motor, I would go with the Efi.  The Briggs Efi isn't self mapping like the aftermarket one pro drive uses.  The Eco-tron Efi unit that PD uses will adjust itself when you add heads and/or a cam.  The factory Briggs is set to a certain rpm and will not adjust for any mods.



You seem pretty knowledgeable about the two EFI systems. Can you shed some light on the Vanguard Power Code software for the Briggs EFI system?

It took me a week or so to get an answer from Briggs about the software and got a call back yesterday that the software and connecting cable will hit the market in about 2 months as a service part. Its my understanding that the software will allow re-mapping the ECU as well as code reading, ect. KP at prodrive was not sure what all the Power Code software would do, but offered to let me speak with this mechanic for specifics. It seems that its still so new even Briggs is not sure what all it will do, lol.

Any info on it is appreciated as I am about to sell my 27PD and order the new 37EFI-PD.


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## tgw925 (Feb 19, 2015)

Getting a boat built next month from prodigy, we decided to go without the mud motor. Gonna have a Yamaha 70 on the back with jack plate and electric trim. We do a lot of red/tarpon fishing so we wanted a do it all boat. It will be very similar to this boat but without the mud motor.


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## WhackemWilly (Feb 19, 2015)

I run one of the EFI Yami 70s that'll be put on your boat, tgw. Very sweet motor


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## tgw925 (Feb 19, 2015)

Can't wait to get her in the driveway. Sending deposit next week!


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 19, 2015)

caver101 said:


> You seem pretty knowledgeable about the two EFI systems. Can you shed some light on the Vanguard Power Code software for the Briggs EFI system?
> 
> It took me a week or so to get an answer from Briggs about the software and got a call back yesterday that the software and connecting cable will hit the market in about 2 months as a service part. Its my understanding that the software will allow re-mapping the ECU as well as code reading, ect. KP at prodrive was not sure what all the Power Code software would do, but offered to let me speak with this mechanic for specifics. It seems that its still so new even Briggs is not sure what all it will do, lol.
> 
> Any info on it is appreciated as I am about to sell my 27PD and order the new 37EFI-PD.


I honestly think that's the 100,000$ question haha.  The Eco tron that pd has been offering is a substantial up charge, and a lot of it had to do with the ability to remap with upgrades I do believe.  The Briggs is a whole lot cheaper (about a $500 upgrade I believe) and all I've heard is that it won't be reprogram able.  I had a 25 gtr with Efi (Subaru robin motor) and I tried everything possible to turn that motor up a little bit.  Me and another guy were gonna get somebody to make a programmer for it but it turned out not to be feasible for the initial cost to produce.  We looked at spending $3500, but then possibly selling 8-10 at most.  That little robin was a great design, it could've stood 5k rpm and held its own with a stock 35 if I could have put the juice to it.  I have a few buddies who have swapped a Briggs power head on a pro drive to a Kawasaki  with great results, but none of them went Efi because of the 4200 rpm limit and the inability to reprogram.
It's gonna be hard to convince anyone to write code to reprogram a mower engine, everyone cuts grass at 3500 lol.  The mud motor niche is very small, and an inventor of a programmer won't sell enough to make any real money.


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## derek054 (Feb 20, 2015)

mizzippi jb said:


> I honestly think that's the 100,000$ question haha.  The Eco tron that pd has been offering is a substantial up charge, and a lot of it had to do with the ability to remap with upgrades I do believe.  The Briggs is a whole lot cheaper (about a $500 upgrade I believe) and all I've heard is that it won't be reprogram able.  I had a 25 gtr with Efi (Subaru robin motor) and I tried everything possible to turn that motor up a little bit.  Me and another guy were gonna get somebody to make a programmer for it but it turned out not to be feasible for the initial cost to produce.  We looked at spending $3500, but then possibly selling 8-10 at most.  That little robin was a great design, it could've stood 5k rpm and held its own with a stock 35 if I could have put the juice to it.  I have a few buddies who have swapped a Briggs power head on a pro drive to a Kawasaki  with great results, but none of them went Efi because of the 4200 rpm limit and the inability to reprogram.
> It's gonna be hard to convince anyone to write code to reprogram a mower engine, everyone cuts grass at 3500 lol.  The mud motor niche is very small, and an inventor of a programmer won't sell enough to make any real money.




How did you like your gtr25? I just placed one on order 2 days ago. What was your likes and dislikes about it? Mine will have the new lower unit. What boat did you have it on and what was your speed with 2 guys and gear


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## Gaducker (Feb 20, 2015)

derek054 said:


> How did you like your gtr25? I just placed one on order 2 days ago. What was your likes and dislikes about it? Mine will have the new lower unit. What boat did you have it on and what was your speed with 2 guys and gear



That 25 gtr he had sounded like it would run with a 45 mag  because it would spin up like  a tightly wound small bock from idle to the rev limiter.  He had it on a go devil and I personaly think the boat was a tad to heavy.  Still it would run 25 with two guys in it in summer time trim.


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## derek054 (Feb 20, 2015)

That seems pretty impressive for a Lil motor. What size boat was it


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## mizzippi jb (Feb 20, 2015)

derek054 said:


> That seems pretty impressive for a Lil motor. What size boat was it



16-48.  I liked it. The motor is very well built, much more so than a Briggs motor.


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## derek054 (Feb 20, 2015)

rnelson5 said:


> It is not normal how much I have been obsessively looking at mud boats and motors!! I have to get rid of my boat first and then I will be getting one built. I think I am going to go with the MB 4500. Everyone that I have talked to that owns them has nothing bad to say about them and the extra power is worth more than the reverse to me. My wife was in another room last night and I clicked on a youtube video and just by the sound she says "how many mud boat videos can one one person stand to watch!!"........... But on a totally unrelated note she did call me a couple days ago all excited because she saw a group of birds go down in a pond on the side of the road. She turned around to see what they were and then goes...... ohh...... they are just hoodies....... Proud husband moment!!!



I got a buddy that had a 1751 v-rake with a mb 4500 from prodigy. I have rode in it a couple of times and that thing is a pretty sick setup!  First 2 times I rode in it was in deep water and the last time was on the river and man that thing will fly. I think we where running 28+ going up river He has nothing bad to say about it either.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 22, 2015)

derek054 said:


> I got a buddy that had a 1751 v-rake with a mb 4500 from prodigy. I have rode in it a couple of times and that thing is a pretty sick setup!  First 2 times I rode in it was in deep water and the last time was on the river and man that thing will fly. I think we where running 28+ going up river He has nothing bad to say about it either.


That is pretty much the exact set up I am looking at. Thanks for the review of the rig.


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## derek054 (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry i was wrong its a 1748. Here is a video of his boat.     

Prodigy 1748 V-Rake; Mud Buddy Blackdeath 4500:
_Video link deleted by Moderator. Video links must be embedded._


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## rnelson5 (Feb 22, 2015)

I have seen that video on youtube. I don't think there is one that I have not watched.......... Slick looking boat right there.


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## derek054 (Feb 22, 2015)

Buddy I'm right there with you. My wife can't stand when I come home and turn the TV on. We got a Chromecast and I send all the mud motor videos to the TV so she can't watch her shows. If you don't have one you need one makes YouTubin so much easier.


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## krazybronco2 (Feb 23, 2015)

saw a prodigy just south of elberton yesterday had a white tahoe pulling it.


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## MudDucker (Feb 23, 2015)

Like it has been said, if you are staying stock, EFI is the way to go. Much more reliable than a carb.  If you can get a programmable EFI, then again, that is the way to go.  If you can't get a programmable EFI and you are going to mod, then use a carb.  BTW, I hate carbs and have been looking for a reasonable EFI for a big block B&S.  I suspect someone will come out with one soon.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Feb 23, 2015)

*Prodigy Question*

  Does anyone know if the length of Prodigy boats are measured from the false transom to the bow or the back of the hunt deck to the bow?


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## rnelson5 (Feb 23, 2015)

Measured from the back of the hunt deck from what I understand. A 15 ft gator Trax would be like a 16 1/2 ft. Prodigy. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


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## flatsmaster (Feb 23, 2015)

I believe ur right the HD on prodigy in included in length while gator Trax is not ... Add 20 inches on GTrax


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## roadkill82 (Feb 27, 2015)

You are correct.  Gator Trax is measured from the and rated then the hutn deck adds 18" so like u said a 16 48 with a hunt deck is 17.5.  Prodigy measures overall baot length which includes the deck so a 16 48 is 16 foor from bow to the rear of the hunt deck


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