# Old gun id help



## Grover Willis (Oct 31, 2021)

This old gun was passed down to me from my great uncle. He knows of 3 generations before him of men that owned it in the family. Mid 1800's is the best I can guess from the ballground area.View attachment 1113279View attachment 1113280


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Pics not showing for me


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

Grover Willis said:


> This old gun was passed down to me from my great uncle. He knows of 3 generations before him of men that owned it in the family. Mid 1800's is the best I can guess from the ballground area.View attachment 1113279View attachment 1113280


Sweet old rifle! I'd guess mid-late 1800s from the half-stock and looks to be original percussion instead of converted. Most of the pre-war southern rifles were full stock. Likely made by one of the hundreds of independent gunsmiths that were in the southeast then. I would treasure that. Maybe someone will come along who can tell you more.


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## fishfryer (Oct 31, 2021)

Can’t view picture, don’t have permission


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> Pics not showing for me


Click on the attachment links.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 31, 2021)

I will be of little help.  Are there any legible markings other than the decorative ones?


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## fishfryer (Oct 31, 2021)

NCHillbilly said:


> Click on the attachment links.


Still won’t


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

fishfryer said:


> Still won’t


Hmm. Works for me.


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## Pig Predator (Oct 31, 2021)

Yeah, I cant see the pictures either.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

Let me try this:


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## Grover Willis (Oct 31, 2021)

No other markings I can see


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

How about a close-up of the whole lock and bolster?


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## kayaksteve (Oct 31, 2021)

Very cool. That is a piece of art and a treasure. Even more so with the family history


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

I'm by no means knowledgeable on the older ones like that and really hope someone who is chimes in.

What I do know is the period transitioning from flint to percussion prior to the advent of the self contained cartridges was about a fifty year window of some of the most fascinating developments in firearms.

If I had to guess I'd say that one was made by a local craftsman as opposed to a more commercial operation which were getting established at the same time period.
Some might call that a poor boy as it lacks the fancier brass inlays and patch boxes. Other than that it's a nice bit of family history. And I would just look to how best to keep it preserved and in the family.

BTW local made percussion guns were still being made well into the twentieth century. Kind of if it ain't broke why change.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Looks to be a swamped barrel where it has a slight flare towards the muzzle to add the right amount of forward balance so it "hangs" well in the hand for off hand shooting. Just one of those little subtle touches the old masters understood and one easily missed in our modern mass produced world.


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## Grover Willis (Oct 31, 2021)

What is this? Sorry not familiar with gun terms. Lock and bolster


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## Hillbilly stalker (Oct 31, 2021)

Very nice. Ive never seen a set trigger shaped exactly like that either.


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## Grover Willis (Oct 31, 2021)

I am uploading a video of if but this is the information my mom got from my grandmother.

Old gun info. Sam Montgomery,  Loy Montgomery, Frank Montgomery.                         Rifle was likely passed down to Uncle Loy which was passed to Frank. Mom said mid- late 1800’s.      …….Sam Montgomery decided to kill himself. He cut his throat. Then he changed his mine. He ran to a creek to try and stop  the bleeding . They found him dead in the creek.


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## fishfryer (Oct 31, 2021)

Grover Willis said:


> What is this? Sorry not familiar with gun terms. Lock and bolster


We need to see the lock area, it seems to be a cap lock. It was probably made after 1840,with no    Name or inscription it’s very hard to say. May have been made by an individual or unknown rifle maker. There is an online membership that has many experts and collectors. It cost nothing to join and they are really into old rifles. You could get a good opinion from them. AmericanLongrifles.org is them.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

Grover Willis said:


> What is this? Sorry not familiar with gun terms. Lock and bolster


The lock is the hammer and associated parts. The bolster is the tube going into the barrel in front of the hammer with the nipple attached to it that the cap rests on.


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## Grover Willis (Oct 31, 2021)




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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

Grover Willis said:


>


Yeah, from the cutout in the lockplate, it looks like original percussion. That is a fine rifle, likely locally made, and I would treasure it for the rest of my life. Do you know what caliber it is?


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Someone correct me here if I'm wrong.

Flint= pre 1830s
Percussion= 1830s on?


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> Someone correct me here if I'm wrong.
> 
> Flint= pre 1830s
> Percussion= 1830s on?


They commonly made flintlocks long after percussion guns were developed, and a lot of people still preferred them to percussion, because you can find flint in the ground, but you have to buy caps. You can still buy spankin' new flintlocks. A lot of folks in the mid-late 1800s had their flint guns converted to percussion.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

True, I understand one of the polar expeditions (Perry?) choose flint over percussion due to not having to haul and keep up with caps which might be a little fiddly to use in the cold.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Just from a mechanical stand point I would think a flinter would need better craftsmanship up front as far as tempering springs and hardening of the frizzen plus timing but if crafted well should stay in function quite well until the frizzen was completely worn away.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Lots of overlap of technologies during that period. The older was at it's very best of development with the new ideas of all sorts working through trial and error.
As I said a truly fascinating time. What I would give to visit the smithys of that time and learn from the great masters.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> Just from a mechanical stand point I would think a flinter would need better craftsmanship up front as far as tempering springs and hardening of the frizzen plus timing but if crafted well should stay in function quite well until the frizzen was completely worn away.


Yep. A good flintlock is good and reliable. A shoddy flintlock is horrible, and won't go off half the time.


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## Nicodemus (Oct 31, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> Lots of overlap of technologies during that period. The older was at it's very best of development with the new ideas of all sorts working through trial and error.
> As I said a truly fascinating time. What I would give to visit the smithys of that time and learn from the great masters.




There`s some smiths around now that are just as good. Some right here in Georgia.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

I've often wondered if the bad rap flinters carry is more often based on modern repros where mass production has forgotten the old ways?

Of course you could probably apply that to so many things today.


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## gawildlife (Oct 31, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> There`s some smiths around now that are just as good. Some right here in Georgia.



I'm glad someone is keeping that knowledge alive.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

gawildlife said:


> I've often wondered if the bad rap flinters carry is more often based on modern repros where mass production has forgotten the old ways?
> 
> Of course you could probably apply that to so many things today.


Definitely. Elk, bison, Indians, and whitetail deer weren't extirpated from the eastern US with crappy rifles that wouldn't go off.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 31, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> There`s some smiths around now that are just as good. Some right here in Georgia.


A few here around me too, Like Jim Chambers and the Rice brothers.


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## Grover Willis (Nov 1, 2021)

Thank y'all for all the great information. I will update this when I find out more info.


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