# Improving hunting



## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

Let's hear some ideas you have.

I have said it before and received a lot of grief. A noon cut off could help. Many are against it but what if you were able to hunt less but we're able to take more birds when you could hunt. 

A shell limit on public water. This would help limit sky busting, and would also reduce non duck deaths.

If there were refuge areas set up near or on public areas that were funded by donations to be planted. Would you support them? This could bring rest area and food to your area.

WMA's-  there is a lot to be done at these areas to improve hunting. I think that the areas could be split up into sections rotating what areas are shot each day.

There could also be areas that can be hunted every day, with one section being a limited to two or three days a week and be a pay area. These funds could go into paying for areas of the wma to be planted and for workers to manage the area.

Rules could also be stricter in these areas. I have hunted wma with a motor restriction, you can not run motors in certain areas, can not be on the property outside of shooting hours, a shell limit, an inforced minimum distance between parties, and maximum number of people on the area at a time.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 2, 2016)

I can get with the shell limits on WMAs, but the more i sit and think about the government telling me when i can and can't hunt even more than they already do, i don't like it. I think no matter what you do, GA will never be a duck hunting state that holds birds like true flyway states. I know first hand how good certain private areas of land can be here, but as a whole it can't compare and you know that as well as i do. States west of here get as much pressure as we do but the bird numbers are more sustainable to the amount of hunters. When you go out west and you hunt in the same general area for 5 days in a row and limit or come close every day, think about how much pressure that really is. It would be near impossible to go to a GA lake and do that. I say leave the number of days we can hunt alone and travel west when you can.


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## g0nef1sshn (Feb 2, 2016)

Shell limits would be easy to cheat and a short run back to the ramp for more. But the idea is a legit one dont get me wrong.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> I can get with the shell limits on WMAs, but the more i sit and think about the government telling me when i can and can't hunt even more than they already do, i don't like it. I think no matter what you do, GA will never be a duck hunting state that holds birds like true flyway states. I know first hand how good certain private areas of land can be here, but as a whole it can't compare and you know that as well as i do. States west of here get as much pressure as we do but the bird numbers are more sustainable to the amount of hunters. When you go out west and you hunt in the same general area for 5 days in a row and limit or come close every day, think about how much pressure that really is. It would be near impossible to go to a GA lake and do that. I say leave the number of days we can hunt alone and travel west when you can.



Everyone uses the excuse there are no ducks here just go west. But go look at private land or any well managed private impoundment or wma especially the sc ones. There are plenty of birds and quality ones. Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s. The hunting was as good here on public water as anywhere. They have taken the grass out of many of the lakes and rivers. Some of the refuge area use to be planted and hold piles of birds. Take away that and increase pressure and you only force birds away.


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## buzzbaithead57 (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Everyone uses the excuse there are no ducks here just go west. But go look at private land or any well managed private impoundment or wma especially the sc ones. There are plenty of birds and quality ones. Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s. The hunting was as good here on public water as anywhere. They have taken the grass out of many of the lakes and rivers. Some of the refuge area use to be planted and hold piles of birds. Take away that and increase pressure and you only force birds away.



Agreed


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Everyone uses the excuse there are no ducks here just go west. But go look at private land or any well managed private impoundment or wma especially the sc ones. There are plenty of birds and quality ones. Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s. The hunting was as good here on public water as anywhere. They have taken the grass out of many of the lakes and rivers. Some of the refuge area use to be planted and hold piles of birds. Take away that and increase pressure and you only force birds away.


This was true in the early 80s in Savannah. Salt water intrusion has hurt allot of hunting on the coast. Allot of the areas that were well managed in the past are not done well anymore.  This problem combined with the great influx of folks into the sport has had a negative impact for sure.


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## flatsmaster (Feb 2, 2016)

You cant compare private land to public land .... Merritt Island NWR has restrictions ... only hunt wed sat sun ... 25 shells and out by 1 ... and the duck hunting there is not like in the 90's .... they dont have the man power to enforce the laws they have now obviously ..... its a great thought though .... save ur money men and buy some good private land bc 10 yrs from now youll wish it was like it is today ...


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

flatsmaster said:


> You cant compare private land to public land .... Merritt Island NWR has restrictions ... only hunt wed sat sun ... 25 shells and out by 1 ... and the duck hunting there is not like in the 90's .... they dont have the man power to enforce the laws they have now obviously ..... its a great thought though .... save ur money men and buy some good private land bc 10 yrs from now youll wish it was like it is today ...


 10 years from now you will be lucky to hunt. Gun control and the bird watchers and the ASPCA, PETA, Defenders of wildlife,Center for Biological Diversity,Born Free USA, The Humane society of the USA,Defenders of Wildlife,Sierra club and in Defense of animals. Wants to stop you. Add to this Urban sprawl, habitat destruction, invasive species, poachers, disease, hunters lack of awarness of the these threats. A good example is Cecil the lion.
Wake UP!


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> 10 years from now you will be lucky to hunt. Gun control and the bird watchers and the ASPCA, PETA, Defenders of wildlife,Center for Biological Diversity,Born Free USA, The Humane society of the USA,Defenders of Wildlife,Sierra club and in Defense of animals. Wants to stop you. Add to this Urban sprawl, habitat destruction, invasive species, poachers, disease, hunters lack of awarness of the these threats. A good example is Cecil the lion.
> Wake UP!


We as a group have got to think out of the box. You guys all have good points and I am for more birds as you are. But you got look at the big picture. Call me old, call me crazy. when you have folks out to destroy our sport , they will stop at nothing. Do not take anything for granted.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

flatsmaster said:


> You cant compare private land to public land .... Merritt Island NWR has restrictions ... only hunt wed sat sun ... 25 shells and out by 1 ... and the duck hunting there is not like in the 90's .... they dont have the man power to enforce the laws they have now obviously ..... its a great thought though .... save ur money men and buy some good private land bc 10 yrs from now youll wish it was like it is today ...



Why can you not compare private to public?

What if they put a fee into hunting let's say 5-10 dollars a day per person? Then they could afford the extra man power to enforce the laws and help maintain the habitat.


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## wray912 (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Why can you not compare private to public?
> 
> What if they put a fee into hunting let's say 5-10 dollars a day per person? Then they could afford the extra man power to enforce the laws and help maintain the habitat.



the odds of something like that getting passed and then the money actually going to the lands that you paid to hunt are slim to none...good idea but the gov is greedy once they realize how much is to be made theyre gonna use that money where they want to not where you want them to


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

wray912 said:


> the odds of something like that getting passed and then the money actually going to the lands that you paid to hunt are slim to none...good idea but the gov is greedy once they realize how much is to be made theyre gonna use that money where they want to not where you want them to


They would use the money to buy votes. The Govt. will not follow the laws on the books or enforce them.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

wray912 said:


> the odds of something like that getting passed and then the money actually going to the lands that you paid to hunt are slim to none...good idea but the gov is greedy once they realize how much is to be made theyre gonna use that money where they want to not where you want them to



If each wma is set up as an independent business and all proceeds were to be collected by them and stay there it would work. If enough of the public speaks up it is possible. I am pretty sure other states have this already set up. There are public hearing all the time where you can go and voice your opinion. Talk to congressmen and there is a chance that it could happen.


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## C.Killmaster (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> If each wma is set up as an independent business and all proceeds were to be collected by them and stay there it would work. If enough of the public speaks up it is possible. I am pretty sure other states have this already set up. There are public hearing all the time where you can go and voice your opinion. Talk to congressmen and there is a chance that it could happen.



Why have government do this?  Any citizen could start such a business venture.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

C.Killmaster said:


> Why have government do this?  Any citizen could start such a business venture.



They do its called a hunting lease. With government funded lands already in existance such as the wma's already in existance a little extra funding could make it feasible for anyone to hunt there. 10 dollars a day verse 5000 a year.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

Government is broke, money wise and just broke other wise. I wish you luck.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 2, 2016)

You know good and well that GA will never have as many birds as say LA, Texas, OK, California, etc. I don't care if you shut hunting down completely, the birds just don't come here like they do in those states. 

As far as limiting hunting days, times, etc., do you really want that? With as much as you hunt during the week, weekends, afternoons, it would be a lot different if you could only hunt a couple days a week.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> You know good and well that GA will never have as many birds as say LA, Texas, OK, California, etc. I don't care if you shut hunting down completely, the birds just don't come here like they do in those states.
> 
> As far as limiting hunting days, times, etc., do you really want that? With as much as you hunt during the week, weekends, afternoons, it would be a lot different if you could only hunt a couple days a week.


this is dead on


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## jasper181 (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Everyone uses the excuse there are no ducks here just go west. But go look at private land or any well managed private impoundment or wma especially the sc ones. There are plenty of birds and quality ones. Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s. The hunting was as good here on public water as anywhere. They have taken the grass out of many of the lakes and rivers. Some of the refuge area use to be planted and hold piles of birds. Take away that and increase pressure and you only force birds away.



There is a lot of truth to this, I drove through the Savannah Wildlife Refuge on the SC side the other day and there were hundreds and hundreds of ducks of all species in the impoundments. A perfect example is Butler Island a few years ago when the place was actually being maintained they were killing nearly 2000 ducks a season .


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

I'm just spitballing ideas here. There a lot of people on this website that complain about issues on public water but never try and do anything about it. I think there are plenty of ideas that could help. I really think that the wma idea with pay areas would work with if enough people got behind it. The refuge idea too. Just need some of the people that complain about not killing birds because this or that need to step up. I kill my fair share each year but would like to see more birds here.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

jasper181 said:


> There is a lot of truth to this, I drove through the Savannah Wildlife Refuge on the SC side the other day and there were hundreds and hundreds of ducks of all species in the impoundments. A perfect example is Butler Island a few years ago when the place was actually being maintained they were killing nearly 2000 ducks a season .


The problem with the SAVNWR is that they will not allow anybody close to that impoundment to hunt waterfowl and the areas they allow hunting in are not managed and are poor duck areas for the most part.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> The problem with the SAVNWR is that they will not allow anybody close to that impoundment to hunt waterfowl and the areas they allow hunting in are not managed and are poor duck areas for the most part.



Go to public meeting bring your friends and let them know. The government is suppose to work for you. Without telling them your not happy with what's going on how will they know. Most of the draw hunt managers are critiqued by birds per hunter (most states do this). If they are not getting good numbers it must be that they are not doing their job reason for termination.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Go to public meeting bring your friends and let them know. The government is suppose to work for you. Without telling them your not happy with what's going on how will they know. Most of the draw hunt managers are critiqued by birds per hunter (most states do this). If they are not getting good numbers it must be that they are not doing their job reason for termination.


Been talking to the refuge folks since 1978 and it aint going to happen. One of those executive orders you hear so much about. You can no hunt with in 50 yard of the river front, back or middle. All you got is the marsh to hunt in unless your are in some creeks and they are full of hunters and have been since I came to Savannah since 1978.  Back in the day we at least had had a refuge manager that hunted.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 2, 2016)

I am talking about the draw hunts. I think the refuge is a good thing. It winters a lot of birds. We need more of them think if we had a refuge near every large body of water. Birds would winter there. Birds would then be in the area of hunting.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> I am talking about the draw hunts. I think the refuge is a good thing. It winters a lot of birds. We need more of them think if we had a refuge near every large body of water. Birds would winter there. Birds would then be in the area of hunting.


Not saying the refuge is a bad thing, Not at all but they do not provide the best areas for waterfowl hunting,Deer and hog are great.


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## andyparm (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Let's hear some ideas you have.
> 
> I have said it before and received a lot of grief. A noon cut off could help. Many are against it but what if you were able to hunt less but we're able to take more birds when you could hunt.
> 
> ...



Pretty much agree with every single point you make here. Not only are the managed impounds in my area (Darien) not managed well, but the refuge areas aren't either. They already have most of the limitations you suggest, and I don't necessarily want the man popping up in the middle of my hunt...but it would be nice to at least see the refuges planted and a limit on the amount of hunters in some of those areas. I would give a lot of money to see some of those areas planted. Start with the refuge areas to see how well it works. Eventually plant all the areas. At least the ones that are easily accessible for tractors, etc. Butler, Champney, Butler refuge. The entire coastal area would benefit from planting over the course of the next 5-10 years. Throw in the Savannah refuge and there's a lot more birds staying in GA that normally fly right past. Some people think improving the refuge areas is bad for hunting. Negative. NEGATIVE. Anything that attracts and keeps more birds in the area will eventually improve the entire areas hunting. Anyways, always love to put in my .02 on this subject.


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## Beta Tau789 (Feb 2, 2016)

Just my opinion here, but the problem with Butler, Champney and Rhetts is when DU got involved they went for the "natural" habitat and discontinued planting and instead just drain flood, drain flood, year after year. When the old timers like Killer where slaying ducks in there back in the day it was planted and flooded.


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## Beta Tau789 (Feb 2, 2016)

andyparm said:


> Pretty much agree with every single point you make here. Not only are the managed impounds in my area (Darien) not managed well, but the refuge areas aren't either. They already have most of the limitations you suggest, and I don't necessarily want the man popping up in the middle of my hunt...but it would be nice to at least see the refuges planted and a limit on the amount of hunters in some of those areas. I would give a lot of money to see some of those areas planted. Start with the refuge areas to see how well it works. Eventually plant all the areas. At least the ones that are easily accessible for tractors, etc. Butler, Champney, Butler refuge. The entire coastal area would benefit from planting over the course of the next 5-10 years. Throw in the Savannah refuge and there's a lot more birds staying in GA that normally fly right past. Some people think improving the refuge areas is bad for hunting. Negative. NEGATIVE. Anything that attracts and keeps more birds in the area will eventually improve the entire areas hunting. Anyways, always love to put in my .02 on this subject.



how funny that we had nearly the same post at the same time


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 2, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> I can get with the shell limits on WMAs, but the more i sit and think about the government telling me when i can and can't hunt even more than they already do, i don't like it. I think no matter what you do, GA will never be a duck hunting state that holds birds like true flyway states. I know first hand how good certain private areas of land can be here, but as a whole it can't compare and you know that as well as i do. States west of here get as much pressure as we do but the bird numbers are more sustainable to the amount of hunters. When you go out west and you hunt in the same general area for 5 days in a row and limit or come close every day, think about how much pressure that really is. It would be near impossible to go to a GA lake and do that. I say leave the number of days we can hunt alone and travel west when you can.



Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

Beta Tau789 said:


> Just my opinion here, but the problem with Butler, Champney and Rhetts is when DU got involved they went for the "natural" habitat and discontinued planting and instead just drain flood, drain flood, year after year. When the old timers like Killer where slaying ducks in there back in the day it was planted and flooded.


Yep sure were


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## across the river (Feb 2, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Why can you not compare private to public?
> 
> What if they put a fee into hunting let's say 5-10 dollars a day per person? Then they could afford the extra man power to enforce the laws and help maintain the habitat.



You can compare public land verse private land, or public housing verses private homes, and on and on, and as a whole, you will always get better results from private ventures than you will from public run entities.  The reasons are the same.  If someone owns the land or the house, that person has a vested interest in it.  They are typically going to do what needs to be done to maintain and keep up their property values,just like the guy with private land will do everything he can to make sure it holds ducks.  In large part, people in public housing and people hunting public ground, have little motivation to worry about the future and have a get what I can get now attitude. They have nothing to really lose in the situation. Why do you think people ride a round and shoot at ducks out of boats or sky bust.  They figure it they don't the next guy will.  It is simple to understand.  There is a reason, as a whole, private schools perform better than public schools.  The kids aren't necessarily smarter, but why will a private school have a 100% graduation rate while many public schools have dropout rates 25% or higher.   Because if you are forking out thousands for you kid(s) to go to school, you are going to make sure they behave and do their work.  If you are sending them to school for free to get them out of your hair and get a free lunch, then the results will generally be much less positive.  The same reason applies to public land hunting where there is heavy demand for the resource.   The population in Georgia has nearly doubled since 1990, and there isn't more land to duck hunt.  By simple statistics there would be more pressure, and with the whole DD popularity, you get a lot of public pressure.   I admire your zeal for this, but you will never dramatically improve the hunting by planting, noon cutoff, or any of this other stuff, because the demand will still outpace the supply. There will still be to many people trying to hunt to few places. Similarly, you could build 100,000 more public housing units, but it still won't be enough, because the demand will still outpace supply.   The only way you can truly make it better is to reduce the "demand" or the number of people hunting.  The only way you could realistically do that is to raise the duck stamp fee to the point it is prohibitive for a large number of people to buy it.  At that point you essentially have one big hunting club, and you are "essentially" back to a private land type situation. That will never happen, so public land is what it is.  Honestly, if you are that serious about it, form a non-profit and start raising money.  Then you could buy land with beaver ponds, swamp land, or that you could create habitat on and go that route. The organization could control hunting, the habitat etc... Members could go plant, donate time, resources, etc....  You would be far more successful creating opportunities that way than you will ever be trying to get the government to do it.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 2, 2016)

WOODIE13 said:


> Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it



I asked to leave it the same sooo  i guess for now i have it.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 2, 2016)

across the river said:


> You can compare public land verse private land, or public housing verses private homes, and on and on, and as a whole, you will always get better results from private ventures than you will from public run entities.  The reasons are the same.  If someone owns the land or the house, that person has a vested interest in it.  They are typically going to do what needs to be done to maintain and keep up their property values,just like the guy with private land will do everything he can to make sure it holds ducks.  In large part, people in public housing and people hunting public ground, have little motivation to worry about the future and have a get what I can get now attitude. They have nothing to really lose in the situation. Why do you think people ride a round and shoot at ducks out of boats or sky bust.  They figure it they don't the next guy will.  It is simple to understand.  There is a reason, as a whole, private schools perform better than public schools.  The kids aren't necessarily smarter, but why will a private school have a 100% graduation rate while many public schools have dropout rates 25% or higher.   Because if you are forking out thousands for you kid(s) to go to school, you are going to make sure they behave and do their work.  If you are sending them to school for free to get them out of your hair and get a free lunch, then the results will generally be much less positive.  The same reason applies to public land hunting where there is heavy demand for the resource.   The population in Georgia has nearly doubled since 1990, and there isn't more land to duck hunt.  By simple statistics there would be more pressure, and with the whole DD popularity, you get a lot of public pressure.   I admire your zeal for this, but you will never dramatically improve the hunting by planting, noon cutoff, or any of this other stuff, because the demand will still outpace the supply. There will still be to many people trying to hunt to few places. Similarly, you could build 100,000 more public housing units, but it still won't be enough, because the demand will still outpace supply.   The only way you can truly make it better is to reduce the "demand" or the number of people hunting.  The only way you could realistically do that is to raise the duck stamp fee to the point it is prohibitive for a large number of people to buy it.  At that point you essentially have one big hunting club, and you are "essentially" back to a private land type situation. That will never happen, so public land is what it is.  Honestly, if you are that serious about it, form a non-profit and start raising money.  Then you could buy land with beaver ponds, swamp land, or that you could create habitat on and go that route. The organization could control hunting, the habitat etc... Members could go plant, donate time, resources, etc....  You would be far more successful creating opportunities that way than you will ever be trying to get the government to do it.



Very well thought response.


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## king killer delete (Feb 2, 2016)

across the river said:


> You can compare public land verse private land, or public housing verses private homes, and on and on, and as a whole, you will always get better results from private ventures than you will from public run entities.  The reasons are the same.  If someone owns the land or the house, that person has a vested interest in it.  They are typically going to do what needs to be done to maintain and keep up their property values,just like the guy with private land will do everything he can to make sure it holds ducks.  In large part, people in public housing and people hunting public ground, have little motivation to worry about the future and have a get what I can get now attitude. They have nothing to really lose in the situation. Why do you think people ride a round and shoot at ducks out of boats or sky bust.  They figure it they don't the next guy will.  It is simple to understand.  There is a reason, as a whole, private schools perform better than public schools.  The kids aren't necessarily smarter, but why will a private school have a 100% graduation rate while many public schools have dropout rates 25% or higher.   Because if you are forking out thousands for you kid(s) to go to school, you are going to make sure they behave and do their work.  If you are sending them to school for free to get them out of your hair and get a free lunch, then the results will generally be much less positive.  The same reason applies to public land hunting where there is heavy demand for the resource.   The population in Georgia has nearly doubled since 1990, and there isn't more land to duck hunt.  By simple statistics there would be more pressure, and with the whole DD popularity, you get a lot of public pressure.   I admire your zeal for this, but you will never dramatically improve the hunting by planting, noon cutoff, or any of this other stuff, because the demand will still outpace the supply. There will still be to many people trying to hunt to few places. Similarly, you could build 100,000 more public housing units, but it still won't be enough, because the demand will still outpace supply.   The only way you can truly make it better is to reduce the "demand" or the number of people hunting.  The only way you could realistically do that is to raise the duck stamp fee to the point it is prohibitive for a large number of people to buy it.  At that point you essentially have one big hunting club, and you are "essentially" back to a private land type situation. That will never happen, so public land is what it is.  Honestly, if you are that serious about it, form a non-profit and start raising money.  Then you could buy land with beaver ponds, swamp land, or that you could create habitat on and go that route. The organization could control hunting, the habitat etc... Members could go plant, donate time, resources, etc....  You would be far more successful creating opportunities that way than you will ever be trying to get the government to do it.


 Best post in this thread


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## MudDucker (Feb 2, 2016)

The eastern flyway is being artificially altered by the government.  There are huge sloughs in Virginia where the government feeds the ducks to stop them from migrating to Cuba.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> The eastern flyway is being artificially altered by the government.  There are huge sloughs in Virginia where the government feeds the ducks to stop them from migrating to Cuba.


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## Gaducker (Feb 3, 2016)

So where would the raised stamp cost become effective? 500.00?  1000.00?


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## HookinLips (Feb 3, 2016)

across the river said:


> You can compare public land verse private land, or public housing verses private homes, and on and on, and as a whole, you will always get better results from private ventures than you will from public run entities.  The reasons are the same.  If someone owns the land or the house, that person has a vested interest in it.  They are typically going to do what needs to be done to maintain and keep up their property values,just like the guy with private land will do everything he can to make sure it holds ducks.  In large part, people in public housing and people hunting public ground, have little motivation to worry about the future and have a get what I can get now attitude. They have nothing to really lose in the situation. Why do you think people ride a round and shoot at ducks out of boats or sky bust.  They figure it they don't the next guy will.  It is simple to understand.  There is a reason, as a whole, private schools perform better than public schools.  The kids aren't necessarily smarter, but why will a private school have a 100% graduation rate while many public schools have dropout rates 25% or higher.   Because if you are forking out thousands for you kid(s) to go to school, you are going to make sure they behave and do their work.  If you are sending them to school for free to get them out of your hair and get a free lunch, then the results will generally be much less positive.  The same reason applies to public land hunting where there is heavy demand for the resource.   The population in Georgia has nearly doubled since 1990, and there isn't more land to duck hunt.  By simple statistics there would be more pressure, and with the whole DD popularity, you get a lot of public pressure.   I admire your zeal for this, but you will never dramatically improve the hunting by planting, noon cutoff, or any of this other stuff, because the demand will still outpace the supply. There will still be to many people trying to hunt to few places. Similarly, you could build 100,000 more public housing units, but it still won't be enough, because the demand will still outpace supply.   The only way you can truly make it better is to reduce the "demand" or the number of people hunting.  The only way you could realistically do that is to raise the duck stamp fee to the point it is prohibitive for a large number of people to buy it.  At that point you essentially have one big hunting club, and you are "essentially" back to a private land type situation. That will never happen, so public land is what it is.  Honestly, if you are that serious about it, form a non-profit and start raising money.  Then you could buy land with beaver ponds, swamp land, or that you could create habitat on and go that route. The organization could control hunting, the habitat etc... Members could go plant, donate time, resources, etc....  You would be far more successful creating opportunities that way than you will ever be trying to get the government to do it.



Yup and that's the justification for people shooting 1.5 yr old and 2.5 yr old bucks on public land. "If I don't, the next guy will". 

I think like you have said and rnelson said earlier, it all boils down to way too many people hunting way too few ducks. I have said this many times about most of the public places I hunt: they have the potential to be awesome but the amount of people hunting what few birds there are in the areas have ruined them. Would all of the regulations that the op proposed help? Maybe a little bit... Maybe... But I think the real problem is the hunter-duck ratio. There are areas I've hunted for years where you may have seen another group on a Saturday and you could kill birds at pretty easily that you now see four groups at on a random Wednesday and you really have to do your homework to kill ducks there. I have now found better, less pressured areas to hunt but I suspect it's only a matter of time before the "secrets" get out.  If we had a way to limit the number of people hunting public land I think hunting would improve dramatically.


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## HookinLips (Feb 3, 2016)

Going back to the Op's ideas though,,, Rotating sections on WMA's, limiting the number of days per week areas can be shot, motor restrictions, enforcing distances between hunting parties, and a maximum number of people on certain areas at a time are all good ideas that limit the people and pressure IMO. While I am not in favor of more and more regulations pushed on us, there comes a time when something needs to be done about the number of people. 20 years ago this didn't even need to be discussed. Now with the increased amount of pressure and people, it might be something we need to think about.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

across the river said:


> You can compare public land verse private land, or public housing verses private homes, and on and on, and as a whole, you will always get better results from private ventures than you will from public run entities.  The reasons are the same.  If someone owns the land or the house, that person has a vested interest in it.  They are typically going to do what needs to be done to maintain and keep up their property values,just like the guy with private land will do everything he can to make sure it holds ducks.  In large part, people in public housing and people hunting public ground, have little motivation to worry about the future and have a get what I can get now attitude. They have nothing to really lose in the situation. Why do you think people ride a round and shoot at ducks out of boats or sky bust.  They figure it they don't the next guy will.  It is simple to understand.  There is a reason, as a whole, private schools perform better than public schools.  The kids aren't necessarily smarter, but why will a private school have a 100% graduation rate while many public schools have dropout rates 25% or higher.   Because if you are forking out thousands for you kid(s) to go to school, you are going to make sure they behave and do their work.  If you are sending them to school for free to get them out of your hair and get a free lunch, then the results will generally be much less positive.  The same reason applies to public land hunting where there is heavy demand for the resource.   The population in Georgia has nearly doubled since 1990, and there isn't more land to duck hunt.  By simple statistics there would be more pressure, and with the whole DD popularity, you get a lot of public pressure.   I admire your zeal for this, but you will never dramatically improve the hunting by planting, noon cutoff, or any of this other stuff, because the demand will still outpace the supply. There will still be to many people trying to hunt to few places. Similarly, you could build 100,000 more public housing units, but it still won't be enough, because the demand will still outpace supply.   The only way you can truly make it better is to reduce the "demand" or the number of people hunting.  The only way you could realistically do that is to raise the duck stamp fee to the point it is prohibitive for a large number of people to buy it.  At that point you essentially have one big hunting club, and you are "essentially" back to a private land type situation. That will never happen, so public land is what it is.  Honestly, if you are that serious about it, form a non-profit and start raising money.  Then you could buy land with beaver ponds, swamp land, or that you could create habitat on and go that route. The organization could control hunting, the habitat etc... Members could go plant, donate time, resources, etc....  You would be far more successful creating opportunities that way than you will ever be trying to get the government to do it.



Yes this all makes since. But you can go to private imooundments and see the same thing happen as public. This is why if we could do something with wma land where it is easier to control public interaction you would see an increase in ducks. Then if you could get a refuge system going in all the key areas we would winter birds here not up north or further south. That would then allow us to have the birds here and work with them. The next issue is getting people to change their mentality of public water. They need to care and want change. We need to get the power lakes to stop releasing grass carp and spraying the grass. There is a reason birds have left the area other than pressure. If we can get natural vegetation back birds will come. But to do that we as hunters have to be heard. Now the only people voicing an opinion are those who don't like the grass because it gets in their jet ski motor or floats up on their beach. 

There are so many of you who just want to argue with me yet have no other options or input. Just want to say oh this is Georgia and we will never have ducks. Why can Florida and North Carolina have birds and not South Carolina an Georgia?

You say there's not enough land to hunt, and too many people. Why is it that I can kill birds and not hear or see another boat here? 

I also blam part of the issue on dnr if they would get out and make a presence felt then maybe some of those with a little repeat for the law would change their actions. I hunted around 50 days this year and was checked one time on the water and one time on land. That's 4% of the time. I hunt some very public areas and feel as though you should see them more often.

As far as getting a private organization to start up yea that is cool and all but why not get involved with dnr and the wma program that is suppose to do just that?


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## king killer delete (Feb 3, 2016)

HookinLips said:


> Yup and that's the justification for people shooting 1.5 yr old and 2.5 yr old bucks on public land. "If I don't, the next guy will".
> 
> I think like you have said and rnelson said earlier, it all boils down to way too many people hunting way too few ducks. I have said this many times about most of the public places I hunt: they have the potential to be awesome but the amount of people hunting what few birds there are in the areas have ruined them. Would all of the regulations that the op proposed help? Maybe a little bit... Maybe... But I think the real problem is the hunter-duck ratio. There are areas I've hunted for years where you may have seen another group on a Saturday and you could kill birds at pretty easily that you now see four groups at on a random Wednesday and you really have to do your homework to kill ducks there.  If we had a way to limit the number of people hunting public land I think hunting would improve dramatically.


How are you going to do that? I have hunted twice if not three times longer than most of the folks who post here. 
Duck hunting as a sport has changed. 
When I got back from Nam I was stationed in Kansas. No body duck hunted. We could go for weeks and not see another hunter. 
If you hunted ducks about the only thing you could buy for duck hunting was decoys and waders. 
If you had a fishing boat you painted it camo and built your blind.
You did everything. You worked the off season on your gear to be ready.
Now if you have the money and you have watched a couple of TV shows you can buy a boat with blind installed, shotgun, decoys that are rigged, waders and a trained dog in a week . The only hold up maybe your hunter safety card. Something I do not have to have.
No we always say be careful what you wish for. You might be the one not allowed to hunt.
Anybody can go west and kill ducks. But thats even getting harder.


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## triton196 (Feb 3, 2016)

Georgia does not and will not have the ducks no matter what we are not in a fly way worth even calling it a fly way. no matter what you build reglate ect it not going to happen because the amount of ducks just dont come thru to make it worth while. the same jack legs will be skybuting on you til 12 with their 25 shells. in fact with limited days it may be worse. I hate it that ga isnt like the delta but it is what it is the grand passage just isnt so grand here. ive hunted private land that is planted flooded ect and for ga the hunt was awesome but it doesnt even compare to a average public hunt in a flyway as far as bird numbers.


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## HookinLips (Feb 3, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> How are you going to do that? I have hunted twice if not three times longer than most of the folks who post here.
> Duck hunting as a sport has changed.
> When I got back from Nam I was stationed in Kansas. No body duck hunted. We could go for weeks and not see another hunter.
> If you hunted ducks about the only thing you could buy for duck hunting was decoys and waders.
> ...



To answer your question... The Op's ideas of rotating sections on WMA's, limiting the number of days per week areas can be shot, motor restrictions, enforcing distances between hunting parties, and a maximum number of people on certain areas at a time will limit the people and pressure. I am not necessarily "wishing" for it but like I said above, when does the time come and how bad does it have to get before we step in to start doing something about the crowds and pressure? 

Yeah I realize you have been hunting for 50 years and you pee excellence and invented the Labrador retriever and all that stuff we've all heard you say a million times and yes, us younger guys are "lucky" in the sense that we are in an era where there are advances in technology and gear which makes it easier to get what you need to hunt. NOW the challenge in duck hunting public land is finding un-pressured birds, which we all can agree is not as easy as it used to be no matter where you go.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

triton196 said:


> Georgia does not and will not have the ducks no matter what we are not in a fly way worth even calling it a fly way. no matter what you build reglate ect it not going to happen because the amount of ducks just dont come thru to make it worth while. the same jack legs will be skybuting on you til 12 with their 25 shells. in fact with limited days it may be worse. I hate it that ga isnt like the delta but it is what it is the grand passage just isnt so grand here. ive hunted private land that is planted flooded ect and for ga the hunt was awesome but it doesnt even compare to a average public hunt in a flyway as far as bird numbers.



Please go to the coast and look at the plantations of South Carolina look at the draw hunts in South Carolina, go to North Carolina and look at the hunting, go to Florida and look at the hunting and tell me there are no birds here. Look at the birds in Alabama or reel foot lake in Tennessee. There are birds in the area, no food and no where to rest will not keep them here. There are plenty of imooundments up and down the Savannah river that hold birds.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Feb 3, 2016)

Two things you need to consider that have already been mentioned in some form or fashion here:

1. Nature deals the cards, nurture plays the hand.
2. You cannot legislate intelligence.

1. The fact remains there aren't the number of ducks in Georgia as there are in the flyway states. I don't care if you saw one well managed sanctuary or two on the east coast with 1000-5000 ducks. That doesn't compare to the millions upon millions that travel the major flyway states. You are drawing your conclusions about Georgia's potential based on a very narrow sample size rather than considering the total number of ducks nationwide relative to Georgia. You can pass restrictive laws in Georgia all day long to nurture the ducks that move through here but a pair of fours is a pair of fours in poker, no matter how good of a poker player you are. Yes, you might win with that hand on occasion (limit out hunting one day), but even a bad poker player (land not well managed) can win the game if they are dealt a full house, straight, four of a kind, etc...(the flyway states). So I commend your thoughtful efforts to want to make duck hunting better here in Georgia, but there is little you can do when nature deals you a bad hand of cards and your efforts will be futile in the grand scheme of things.

2. You can pass restrictive laws all day long, but that won't stop the idiots from being idiots on public land.


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## LukeSkybuster (Feb 3, 2016)

Season should go into February and not start in November. By the time any ducks get here it's over. Change that.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

LukeSkybuster said:


> Season should go into February and not start in November. By the time any ducks get here it's over. Change that.



Why me, start a petition go get some facts. Look at refuge numbers, birds taken off wma's ect show where the migration is not peaking till later. Get people to share it sign it send it off to senators, congressmen, anyone with power.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

WhiteStoneGuy said:


> Two things you need to consider that have already been mentioned in some form or fashion here:
> 
> 1. Nature deals the cards, nurture plays the hand.
> 2. You cannot legislate intelligence.
> ...




But why have suck a negative out look on it. If you could make changes and raise your average by one bird a day would it not be worth it. Years ago there were just as many birds on the east coast. You have to start somewhere. We are only getting worse. It might not be Arkansas next year but if we start now and build on it who knows in 10 years maybe we will have the birds that we did in the past.


Let's look at the guys who had small beaver swamps and went in and manipulated them a little and how much they benefited from that. If we did that on a grand scale wma's maybe add some refuges, contact the Audubon society get them to delegate some land towards ducks who knows what kind of influx we could see. 

And if there was more of a presence from law men enforcing rules already in place some of the idiots would stop doing things they do.


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## HookinLips (Feb 3, 2016)

LukeSkybuster said:


> Season should go into February and not start in November. By the time any ducks get here it's over. Change that.





Woodsedgefarm said:


> Why me, start a petition go get some facts. Look at refuge numbers, birds taken off wma's ect show where the migration is not peaking till later. Get people to share it sign it send it off to senators, congressmen, anyone with power.



I'm sure everyone agrees that we would be more successful if the season was later but I'm pretty sure that's the reason the seasons are set that way, so the late migrators make it back to the breeding grounds. I don't think that anyone in power cares about changing the seasons that have been the same for years and years so that we can hunt in the peak of the migration and kill more.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

HookinLips said:


> I'm sure everyone agrees that we would be more successful if the season was later but I'm pretty sure that's the reason the seasons are set that way, so the late migrators make it back to the breeding grounds. I don't think that anyone in power cares about changing the seasons that have been the same for years and years so that we can hunt in the peak of the migration and kill more.



The reason for the date is that the believe most ducks have already paired up for breeding season. They don't care about number of ducks killed that is why they have a limit, they do not want breading pairs split.

My point was everyone wants to complain and do nothing.


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## HookinLips (Feb 3, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> The reason for the date is that the believe most ducks have already paired up for breeding season. They don't care about number of ducks killed that is why they have a limit, they do not want breading pairs split.
> 
> My point was everyone wants to complain and do nothing.



Makes sense, thus I don't ever see this changing, as much as we'd like it to.


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## LukeSkybuster (Feb 3, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> The reason for the date is that the believe most ducks have already paired up for breeding season. They don't care about number of ducks killed that is why they have a limit, they do not want breading pairs split.
> 
> My point was everyone wants to complain and do nothing.




That wasn't directed at you. I threw the idea out there which is what you asked for. Please don't become an Emu and assume everything is about you.


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## lancek742 (Feb 3, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> How are you going to do that? I have hunted twice if not three times longer than most of the folks who post here.
> Duck hunting as a sport has changed.
> When I got back from Nam I was stationed in Kansas. No body duck hunted. We could go for weeks and not see another hunter.
> If you hunted ducks about the only thing you could buy for duck hunting was decoys and waders.
> ...



You have no doubt been hunting much longer than me. I am fairly new to the sport of duck hunting and get just as annoyed as everybody else with rude and unethical hunters on public land. We usually have a few private areas to hunt and only hunt public land to give those spots a break. Quick question for you though. As I have only been in the sport for a few years I have already seen a big increase in our are on the number of duck hunters. So my question is this. Do you think it will ever get bad enough to where DNR makes duck hunting quota only. just curious if they limited the number of hunters that could hunt each year if it would help. Again very new to this and have no idea what it was like years ago. My adult son invited me to go a few years back and I absolutely loved it. We might always get the spot we want or kill as many birds as we would like, But we always see birds and always enjoy the day no matter the amount of birds we shoot.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Feb 3, 2016)

> But why have suck a negative out look on it. If you could make changes and raise your average by one bird a day would it not be worth it.



I think the entire point of my response went straight over your head.



> Years ago there were just as many birds on the east coast.



This is a blanket statement by you, not backed by statistics or facts. In 1989, El Nino forced a significant number of teal down the east coast jet stream and the east coast saw an influx then. A hundred years ago there were significantly more birds on the east coast, but there were still millions more in the major flyways. 



> Let's look at the guys who had small beaver swamps and went in and manipulated them a little and how much they benefited from that. If we did that on a grand scale wma's maybe add some refuges, contact the Audubon society get them to delegate some land towards ducks who knows what kind of influx we could see.



Again, I applaud your enthusiasm, but I feel you have a romanticized view of Georgia's public land potential. You want hunters/sportsman, state lawmakers, etc... to be willing to invest millions of dollars and man hours to create the ideal habitat for ducks in this state as well as hire more government agents to police these habitats. This would be a terrible waste of resources as you would not yield a strong return on your investment. The time, effort, and money would be much better spent on something that could yield a great return in this state like bigger bucks, fish, etc... It's like wanting to invest millions to grow more palm trees in Georgia when only a small part of the state even has a suitable climate to grow palm trees. Would you have more palm trees? Sure! But not many more.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

WhiteStoneGuy said:


> I think the entire point of my response went straight over your head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



https://migbirdapps.fws.gov/mbdc/databases/mwi/statezone.asp
Go to this site enter in year and look at bird numbers and tell me there were not more ducks.

If you get more natural vegetation on the lakes it will provide for the ducks as well as fishermen. The more vegetation the more baitfish can thrive as well as young game fish. So now we have included a whole other group into our efforts. So money is not wasted. But something as simple as showing up to meetings when they discuss vegetation management plans can do a number to help out.


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## WhiteStoneGuy (Feb 3, 2016)

> https://migbirdapps.fws.gov/mbdc/dat.../statezone.asp
> Go to this site enter in year and look at bird numbers and tell me there were not more ducks.



What a nifty website. But it only proves the point I'm trying to make to you. Pick any year for Georgia and compare it to Arkansas in that same year. Arkansas had 1000+% more birds than Georgia most every year, so no, there was never just as many birds years ago. I can't explain it any other way to make you understand that your ideas of increasing government involvement in Georgia to improve duck numbers is futile. The opportunity cost of your liberty is too high compared to the return on the investment. You are throwing a small pebble into a calm ocean and expecting a tsunami to be the result. 

My outlook on this is not negative, it's realistic. I do not want more government in my life on the hope that I might kill one more wood duck in the swamp, one more bufflehead on the coast, or possible one more puddle duck on the "honey" hole every time I go hunting in Georgia.


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## across the river (Feb 3, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Yes this all makes since. But you can go to private imooundments and see the same thing happen as public. This is why if we could do something with wma land where it is easier to control public interaction you would see an increase in ducks. Then if you could get a refuge system going in all the key areas we would winter birds here not up north or further south. That would then allow us to have the birds here and work with them. The next issue is getting people to change their mentality of public water. They need to care and want change. We need to get the power lakes to stop releasing grass carp and spraying the grass. There is a reason birds have left the area other than pressure. If we can get natural vegetation back birds will come. But to do that we as hunters have to be heard. Now the only people voicing an opinion are those who don't like the grass because it gets in their jet ski motor or floats up on their beach.
> 
> There are so many of you who just want to argue with me yet have no other options or input. Just want to say oh this is Georgia and we will never have ducks. Why can Florida and North Carolina have birds and not South Carolina an Georgia?
> 
> ...




There is as much, and in some cases more, grass in a number of lakes now than there was 20 years ago, and far fewer ducks.  More food doesn't equate to more ducks if they don't have a chance to sit down and eat.  You can ride miles on a lake full of hydrilla and see 10 ducks, and then go to a pond up the road that is less than .00001% the size and see a hundreds on it.   There isn't a lack of food problem on many places.  It is pressure.
As far as why I would prefer a private entity over the DNR, just look at the ducks unlimited projects that have been done in Georgia over the years.  Dams blown out ad not repaired, nothing planted, water levels not maintained properly, etc....   They can't even manage the duck mecca in Darien properly.   I'm not necessarily knocking DNR's effort, but when you have no money to manage anything, you can manage it. Why would anyone put a bunch of time and money into something that you know won't be maintained, and even if some ducks show up will get abused by yahoos.  You could put that same money and effort into private land you could control, and I promise you would get better results.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 3, 2016)

across the river said:


> There is as much, and in some cases more, grass in a number of lakes now than there was 20 years ago, and far fewer ducks.  More food doesn't equate to more ducks if they don't have a chance to sit down and eat.  You can ride miles on a lake full of hydrilla and see 10 ducks, and then go to a pond up the road that is less than .00001% the size and see a hundreds on it.   There isn't a lack of food problem on many places.  It is pressure.
> As far as why I would prefer a private entity over the DNR, just look at the ducks unlimited projects that have been done in Georgia over the years.  Dams blown out ad not repaired, nothing planted, water levels not maintained properly, etc....   They can't even manage the duck mecca in Darien properly.   I'm not necessarily knocking DNR's effort, but when you have no money to manage anything, you can manage it. Why would anyone put a bunch of time and money into something that you know won't be maintained, and even if some ducks show up will get abused by yahoos.  You could put that same money and effort into private land you could control, and I promise you would get better results.



Yes there is grass on some lakes but is it the grass that the ducks want. Hydrilla is alright it's not native. But better than nothing. Now food is just a part of the equation I also said there needs to be refuge areas. 

Other states are able to afford planting vast areas even using airial planting. I believe that with the current system the wma's are useless. If they were made to the way I suggested earlier with pay areas extra revenue could be taken up and then pay for itself. The idea of a private organization will bring about nothing more than a club and be too expensive for most. 

This is the last response I will have on the subject it has little affect. But maybe for there is enough interest a group can get together and work on it.


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## MudDucker (Feb 3, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


>



Nope smarty.  I have personally flown over and seen the sloughs and talked to guys who worked there.


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## MudDucker (Feb 3, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> How are you going to do that? I have hunted twice if not three times longer than most of the folks who post here.
> Duck hunting as a sport has changed.
> When I got back from Nam I was stationed in Kansas. No body duck hunted. We could go for weeks and not see another hunter.
> If you hunted ducks about the only thing you could buy for duck hunting was decoys and waders.
> ...



You and I have hunted about the same number of years.  Georgia has always had a fairly large number of duck hunters.  The numbers held strong until the flyway changed and numbers fell off.  I saw hunting shift from puddle ducks to black jacks when the feds interfered. 

The number of hunters has dramatically increased again with all the media attention.

It is way easier to do now than back in the day.  They just don't know.  Biggest change is mudmotors.  Mudmotors take us places today that you really had to work hard to get to back in the day.


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## king killer delete (Feb 3, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> You and I have hunted about the same number of years.  Georgia has always had a fairly large number of duck hunters.  The numbers held strong until the flyway changed and numbers fell off.  I saw hunting shift from puddle ducks to black jacks when the feds interfered.
> 
> The number of hunters has dramatically increased again with all the media attention.
> 
> It is way easier to do now than back in the day.  They just don't know.  Biggest change is mudmotors.  Mudmotors take us places today that you really had to work hard to get to back in the day.


x2 on the mud motors and you are exactly right on all points.
You and I know back in the day hunting ducks was ten times the work. You built your on blind. You came up with your on camo pattern for your boat. We did it all. I bought a brand new 870 Wingmaster and painted it flat black out of the box.  Choke tubes did not exist. You bought another barrel. Load up the lead shot. I hated the point system.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> Nope smarty.  I have personally flown over and seen the sloughs and talked to guys who worked there.



Why in the world would the government spend money on baiting ducks in Virginia to keep them from flying to Cuba??


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> You and I have hunted about the same number of years.  Georgia has always had a fairly large number of duck hunters.  The numbers held strong until the flyway changed and numbers fell off.  I saw hunting shift from puddle ducks to black jacks when the feds interfered.
> 
> The number of hunters has dramatically increased again with all the media attention.
> 
> It is way easier to do now than back in the day.  They just don't know.  Biggest change is mudmotors.  Mudmotors take us places today that you really had to work hard to get to back in the day.


In a place like LA i could see the mud motor issue. Back in the day they had to use pirogues when they got off of the main channel. In GA, besides a few coastal areas and maybe a SW lake i don't see it. You can get to most any place with an outboard you need to be in GA (assuming you are hunting our lakes and river systems) In my part of the state a mud motor is almost more of a burden than anything. It makes it nice on trips though.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 3, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Everyone uses the excuse there are no ducks here just go west. But go look at private land or any well managed private impoundment or wma especially the sc ones. There are plenty of birds and quality ones. Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s. The hunting was as good here on public water as anywhere. They have taken the grass out of many of the lakes and rivers. Some of the refuge area use to be planted and hold piles of birds. Take away that and increase pressure and you only force birds away.



I love this, "Ask the older guys and ask about the hunting up through the 90s"...I started hunting ducks in the mid-70s and we had a lot of ducks here.  I hunted (and still hunt) in the part of the state that is heaviest in agriculture, the south western portion.  There were days that we would literally see hundreds of mallards, I have actually seen a mallard "tornado" in SOWEGA before. I remember hunting Seminole and you did not have to camp out to have a spot to your self.  Here are a few observations.  One the nature of agriculture has changed, drastically.  More grains were grown then and soybeans were also more common.  With the rebirth of high dollar cotton things changed towards ducks.  Fields were ditched better so there was no standing water in them like there used to be, peanuts were pulled and combined long before hunting season and the fields were left fallow from the beginning of hunting season through the spring.  You had more standing water with residual peanuts in the field, ducks had more resting and feeding areas here.  Same could be said about soybeans and the various grain crops that were grown.  Now, every inch is ditched and planted in cotton and those areas tend to be animal dead zones.  Cotton stubble just isn't attractive to ducks. The demise of the family farm and older farming practices also has changed.  There are larger farms now that rely on large areas of leased land and the small working family farm has gone the way of leaded gasoline.  This is important, many farmers don't own the land they farm and don't have the hunting rights so they farm from fence to fence, they use really good herbicides now that take care of all weeds, to include smartweed, etc...that benefited ducks during the off season and once again, the fields are ditched better now than they were. Cover crops are planted now that offer no benefit to waterfowl also, there just is not much for them to eat in a fence row to fence row field of three inch high winter wheat or rye.  In the 70s every small family farm in SOWEGA was teeming with quail, rabbits and if there was any water, ducks.  There were few deer or turkeys outside the "plantation areas".  What WMAs there were, small game and waterfowl ruled, it is a different story now, piney woods goats rule and the state manages accordingly. Silvaculture practices have changed too, hardwood bottoms are clear cut and planted with pine, those areas are ditched, sight prepped and what water there is standing is not attractive to ducks because there is nothing there for them to eat.  

What I am going to say now will probably upset some people, starting in the 90s the qualities of the duck hunters themselves changed.  Having hunted large waters in the 70s onwards I have seen the change. On Seminole people respected others when they were hunting, nobody would have thought of setting up near another hunter, nor would they have been "scouting" during the morning during hunting season.  None of the other big water hunting areas even had duck hunters or if they were there they were so few sportsmanship was not an issue.  This is going to sound counter intuitive, but the growth of D.U. chapters on campuses and D.U. becoming the cool thing led to an increase in "self taught" young duck hunters that ruined hunting on public lands.  Duck hunters became "selfish" and started doing things that my grandfather and some of the older men I hunted with would have tanned my hide for doing.  We would go out and set bamboo out in the water a day or so before opening day (nothing permanent, just poles pushed into the mud) and people respected that. Now go out there opening morning and for an hour into shooting light, boats would pull up into our decoys and start setting up or you have literally dozens of boats getting out there camping out before opening day, it does no good to "mark" your spot either.  I know, it is public land, but back in the day, people used to build permanent blinds on big water and people respected it, now a days....well, you can't build blinds and people certainly won't respect temporary blinds.  It is illegal now to do it on Corps lakes, but back in the day....

There are ducks that come here, they just all go to private land now. I know of one old D.U. site that is now owned by a group of hunters in a county down here that is not near a major river or lake and it gets loaded with both puddle ducks and divers.  I know of places where small creeks are now a series of old beaver ponds and irrigation ponds that are loaded with woodies, mallards, gadwalls, teal and every now and then pintails and widgeon.  The state has limited funds, those funds are going to go to the groups that have the most clout the deer and turkey hunters, which by the way, are species that are easier for the state to manage.  Some solutions are get 10 or so of your buddies together, buy a small piece of land under 100 acres and build duck ponds and then manage them intensively, this can be real expensive or if some of the people in your group are farmers and have access to heavy equipment it can be a wee bit cheaper.  This is going to have to be the trend if you really want good duck hunting, basically make duck clubs similar to the ones that existed back at the turn of the 20th century. GA actually had a goodly number of these on the coast in old rice fields, just like there are in SC now. Leasing land for duck hunting is an option, but in the long run not a good one.  It cost money to improve land for ducks and you alter the landscape in doing so, which many land owners are not going to appreciate.  If they do allow it, you run the danger of once you get it right, you increased the value of the land and you loose your lease and the land owner sells that particular piece. Land with waterfowl ponds and water control features becomes attractive for duck hunters and they will pay premium dollars for it.  If you already own the land, you can form a club and use the proceeds to create waterfowl impoundments, the only way this would work is long term though. Equipment and labor can cost and getting the permits if it is considered wetlands can be time consuming.  You can get around this by putting in impoundments in old fields, if you are lucky they already have an irrigation well, and just make dikes and flood the field, plant it with whatever grains you desire and encourage natural foods to eventually take over.

In the 80s my hunting buddy's family owned some land on the Flint River, in a bend just below Lake Blackshear, we had over a dozen duck impoundments we made out of beaver ponds and low areas over the years, his father was a Georgia Power executive and we took people from Georgia Power hunting there all the time.  We once had a group that had just come back from Arkansas, and you can believe me or not, they said the hunting for mallards was better at our place ( I called it ours, it was my buddies family but I helped manage it) than out in Arkansas, they got a limit every time we took them, all drakes.  That is also where I saw a  "tornado" of at least a thousand mallards come in at one time.  The only one I have ever personally seen.  Unfortunately in the 90s a group of FLA deer hunters offered them a price well over market value at the time so it was sold, (Worth Co on the Flint was just becoming known as a trophy deer area) I still drive by it on 300 all the time and think back fondly on those days.  It can be done in GA, but it won't be done on public land and it is not cheap. You think about the money you spend per duck is high now, start managing land and you better enjoy your duck meals, because they will be the most expensive thing you ever ate.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

Having easier access to "pre made" duck hunting products like camoed boats, store bought blinds, etc. does NOT make it easy for a new guy to kill ducks. Putting camo on a duck boat is more for the human eye imo and i would rather ditch the boat when possible than to hunt out of it.(i know that is not always an option) A guy still has to be a good hunter and figure out how to fool the birds. The guy who buys a new camo boat and goes and sets it up against a mud bank on the Hill with his bright yellow blind is NOT going to kill many birds. All the fancy gadgets in the world are going to do no good if they are not in the right persons hands. The biggest disadvantage i can see from guys hunting backnin the day compared to now is the lack of technology. Modern day GPS and the internet are HUGE factors to my success that you older hunters did not have. If you know how to use social media, forums, and google correctly you can gather priceless info on places to hunt across this country. It still takes a hunter to get in his truck drive 10-20 hours and figure out how to kill them though.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

No camo boat and no blind...


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 3, 2016)

WhiteStoneGuy said:


> What a nifty website. But it only proves the point I'm trying to make to you. Pick any year for Georgia and compare it to Arkansas in that same year. Arkansas had 1000+% more birds than Georgia most every year, so no, there was never just as many birds years ago. I can't explain it any other way to make you understand that your ideas of increasing government involvement in Georgia to improve duck numbers is futile. The opportunity cost of your liberty is too high compared to the return on the investment. You are throwing a small pebble into a calm ocean and expecting a tsunami to be the result.
> 
> My outlook on this is not negative, it's realistic. I do not want more government in my life on the hope that I might kill one more wood duck in the swamp, one more bufflehead on the coast, or possible one more puddle duck on the "honey" hole every time I go hunting in Georgia.


When I started duck hunting in SOWEGA, we had a potentially higher limit than Arkansas which was on a point system.  We limited on mallards more often than not.  I don't know the statistics, but I know what we had in my part of the state.  If the land was managed, you had plenty of mallards. Many of the old plantations in my part of the state had duck impoundments, many still do, and they have stellar duck hunting, though quail hunting is what they are mainly managed for.  Like I said in my previous response,  I know of a duck club in SOWEGA, privately owned, that has as good duck hunting as most experience in Arkansas, limits and a much larger variety of ducks, every hunt. Back before agricultural changes in the early 20th century the Atlantic Flyway had as many, if not more ducks, than the Mississippi fly way, the whole ethos of duck hunting in the US was developed in large eastern duck clubs.  They are here, just urbanization and lack of habitat has changed, make the habitat, YOU WILL have much better duck hunting.  I have heard this...go west, etc...for more than 30 years, since the rise of DU and all the self taught duck hunting experts.  I have seen thousands of mallards in a day in SOWEGA, and to hear the old timers talking about back in the 50s and such, mallards ruled here, they were as common as dove. I will tell you a cute story, we had a swimming pool when I was a kid, I had a pet hen mallard, had her for years, the Albany Herald even did a couple of stories on her, this was in the early mid-70s.  One early Jan. morning I went outside and there were fifty or more ducks in my pool that my hen called down, and this was in a suburb area at the time around Albany GA.


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## emusmacker (Feb 3, 2016)

LukeSkybuster said:


> That wasn't directed at you. I threw the idea out there which is what you asked for. Please don't become an Emu and assume everything is about you.



Lukie, dude I don't make it all about me. I'm not the one that wants MY LAKE less pressured and more birds.  I think it's good like it is. 

I do like the idea of having a quota system. Especially on the more pressured waters.  

There have been some good ideas mentioned. I personally don't think the duck hunting will improve to the extent as it was in the 80's. And personally I don't have the money to spend to "improve" the land for a chance to kill just one more duck. Duck hunting as it is gets very expensive and I certainly don't want it to turn into a rich man's sport. That will definitely ruin it.
But Lukie, please don't cry and bring my name into a conversation without asking. Thanks.


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## emusmacker (Feb 3, 2016)

woodsedgefarm, not trying to be smart or sarcastic but why don't you get up a group of guys and fund a sanctuary. I think it's a great idea, and agree a sanctuary will help, but do you think a lake like Clark Hill gets hunted every single day of the week to the extent that the birds leave?


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

redneck_billcollector said:


> When I started duck hunting in SOWEGA, we had a potentially higher limit than Arkansas which was on a point system.  We limited on mallards more often than not.  I don't know the statistics, but I know what we had in my part of the state.  If the land was managed, you had plenty of mallards. Many of the old plantations in my part of the state had duck impoundments, many still do, and they have stellar duck hunting, though quail hunting is what they are mainly managed for.  Like I said in my previous response,  I know of a duck club in SOWEGA, privately owned, that has as good duck hunting as most experience in Arkansas, limits and a much larger variety of ducks, every hunt. Back before agricultural changes in the early 20th century the Atlantic Flyway had as many, if not more ducks, than the Mississippi fly way, the whole ethos of duck hunting in the US was developed in large eastern duck clubs.  They are here, just urbanization and lack of habitat has changed, make the habitat, YOU WILL have much better duck hunting.  I have heard this...go west, etc...for more than 30 years, since the rise of DU and all the self taught duck hunting experts.  I have seen thousands of mallards in a day in SOWEGA, and to hear the old timers talking about back in the 50s and such, mallards ruled here, they were as common as dove. I will tell you a cute story, we had a swimming pool when I was a kid, I had a pet hen mallard, had her for years, the Albany Herald even did a couple of stories on her, this was in the early mid-70s.  One early Jan. morning I went outside and there were fifty or more ducks in my pool that my hen called down, and this was in a suburb area at the time around Albany GA.


That is all good and well the mallards were here like that 30-40 years ago, but they are not now. Not saying they don't get killed, even in decent numbers in some areas but you even said it is not like that anymore. Nowadays if you want to kill mallards in numbers north and west is your best bet. I am far from a mallard purist and more of a numbers guy myself though. I have been fortunate to see the good side of GA hunting, but to say it holds a candle as a WHOLE (in the present) to other states is a joke.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

emusmacker said:


> woodsedgefarm, not trying to be smart or sarcastic but why don't you get up a group of guys and fund a sanctuary. I think it's a great idea, and agree a sanctuary will help, but do you think a lake like Clark Hill gets hunted every single day of the week to the extent that the birds leave?


 The birds that are on the Hill get chased to private property for the most part that is near the lake and river. Same can be said probablly for most of the lakes and river systems that get many birds.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 3, 2016)

For what people spend on duck hunting boats and some of the other stuff, you could get 10 people, with 20k each and put together a decent little private duck club, buy 70 to 80 acres (or more if you want to spend the money) near one of the bigger lakes, Seminole, Blackshear or Eufaula in my area and put in 30 or 40 acres of flooded fields or other forms of impoundments and have a heck of a duck club with a goodly number of birds and in the long run it is a decent investment.  You sell stock in it, and control the hunting hours and such, even have a draw for blinds on the mornings you decide to hunt it. Run it like a deer hunting club to some extent. This is going to be the trend and for people who don't already own lots of rural land in decent areas it will be the only way to have decent duck hunting without the pressure.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 3, 2016)

redneck_billcollector said:


> For what people spend on duck hunting boats and some of the other stuff, you could get 10 people, with 20k each and put together a decent little private duck club, buy 70 to 80 acres (or more if you want to spend the money) near one of the bigger lakes, Seminole, Blackshear or Eufaula in my area and put in 30 or 40 acres of flooded fields or other forms of impoundments and have a heck of a duck club with a goodly number of birds and in the long run it is a decent investment.  You sell stock in it, and control the hunting hours and such, even have a draw for blinds on the mornings you decide to hunt it. Run it like a deer hunting club to some extent. This is going to be the trend and for people who don't already own lots of rural land in decent areas it will be the only way to have decent duck hunting without the pressure.


I agree and know it can happen, but if i am spending 20k plus on land to manage for a duck club i would look elsewhere than GA but that is just me. There are still places to get away from some pressure and have plenty of birds, it just requires more effort and time.


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## tradhunter98 (Feb 3, 2016)

emusmacker said:


> Lukie, dude I don't make it all about me. I'm not the one that wants MY LAKE less pressured and more birds.  I think it's good like it is.
> 
> I do like the idea of having a quota system. Especially on the more pressured waters.
> 
> ...


Providing you're talking about the same lake you have before? I'd like to see it change ALOT, I'm not sure if we know anyone who wouldn't like to see it change.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 3, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> That is all good and well the mallards were here like that 30-40 years ago, but they are not now. Not saying they don't get killed, even in decent numbers in some areas but you even said it is not like that anymore. Nowadays if you want to kill mallards in numbers north and west is your best bet. I am far from a mallard purist and more of a numbers guy myself though. I have been fortunate to see the good side of GA hunting, but to say it holds a candle as a WHOLE (in the present) to other states is a joke.



Last year, right after the close of duck season, I was quail hunting on that duck club I mentioned, it is just inside Early Co. near the Calhoun Co. line, I must have kicked up more than a thousand ducks that day, yeah, most were ringers and woodies, but there were also a good number of large puddle ducks like mallards and such.  Is it as good as it once was, no, but it can be much better, you just got to be willing to do so.  Someone in another post said something about duck hunting becoming a rich man's sport.  Well along the Atlantic coast in the early and mid-20th century it was simply because it was rich men who purchased and managed the land for ducks.  Those clubs died with those men, their children did not like to hunt.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 3, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> I agree and know it can happen, but if i am spending 20k plus on land to manage for a duck club i would look elsewhere than GA but that is just me. There are still places to get away from some pressure and have plenty of birds, it just requires more effort and time.



In GA you can reasonably hunt it through out the season, you do it somewhere else, well, it becomes too much of a burden to travel there and back every week.  The club I know, it is mainly SOWEGA musicians (a couple are rather successful and well known) that own it, is hunted every week and limits are had every time, not always limits of just mallards and grey ducks, but plenty of them. I am on the waiting list, next in line, for buying into the club.  You can't get up at 4 in the morning, go hunting out of state, and be back home in the afternoon to spend with the family every weekend ..... you can if your duck club is an hour or less away.  Not to mention the off season work on dikes, ditches and planting that needs to be done.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 4, 2016)

Point taken.


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## MudDucker (Feb 4, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> x2 on the mud motors and you are exactly right on all points.
> You and I know back in the day hunting ducks was ten times the work. You built your on blind. You came up with your on camo pattern for your boat. We did it all. I bought a brand new 870 Wingmaster and painted it flat black out of the box.  Choke tubes did not exist. You bought another barrel. Load up the lead shot. I hated the point system.



I couldn't bring myself to paint my gun, but I had some tape that an old Marine in the neighborhood gave me that was camo'd.  Had to take it off every so often and use mineral spirits to get the gum off the gun so I could clean it.  Learned to shoot well, because I usually only carried my full choke barrel.  When a bird was hit with a full choke lead load, it was a dramatic exit from flight.  I remember when compen-chokes came out with an adjustable choke that had to be permanently mounted to the barrel.  I waited to get one and saw several disintegrate.  So, you won't find that on my older guns.

I used to motor with an outboard where I could.  A weedless 3hp evinrude and then paddle, push pole or wade pulling the boat to the holes.  Some were several miles of that type of wrestling.

It was a challenge, but man was it fun when the orange lets came in.

Yea, I hated the point system too.  Although I had fun with a federally one morning.  I had a suzie.  She surprised me or I would have passed.  My bag was legal only if I shot her last.  The federally asked me in sneaky way what order I shoot my ducks.  I laughed and asked him ... really ... do I look stupid.  He was not pleased.


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## MudDucker (Feb 4, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> Why in the world would the government spend money on baiting ducks in Virginia to keep them from flying to Cuba??



Were you alive during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  I was.  It was the most intense time I've ever experienced in this Country.  We had drills for what to do in the case of a nuclear attack.  Door to door salesmen selling bomb shelters.  Only thing close was 9/11.

The US did everything it could to boycott and shut down Cuba's economy and farm system.  When the US learned that Cuban farmers were dynamiting fields to kill ducks for fertilizer, a huge project was undertaken to stop the bulk of the migration.  It worked very well for the Atlantic seaboard.


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## MudDucker (Feb 4, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> In a place like LA i could see the mud motor issue. Back in the day they had to use pirogues when they got off of the main channel. In GA, besides a few coastal areas and maybe a SW lake i don't see it. You can get to most any place with an outboard you need to be in GA (assuming you are hunting our lakes and river systems) In my part of the state a mud motor is almost more of a burden than anything. It makes it nice on trips though.



I hunt mostly in South Georgia/North Florida.  Every other mile there is a swamp.  It is not as vast as LA's swamps, but we have a bunch.  I had an old cypress boat that was similar to a pirogue for this purpose.  I would love to see you run what I've run with an outboard.


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## king killer delete (Feb 4, 2016)

I think we need to bring back the to point system.
Wood duck 35 points per bird
Teal Green /Blue wing 20 points per bird
Canvas Back 100 points
Red head 55 points
Black duck 100 points
Mallard drake 33.5
Mallard hen 100 points
Blue bill 70 points
Ring Neck 20 points
Canada goose 20 points
Snow goose 10 points
Mergansers 15 points Except hooded 70 points
Once you  have reached a hundred points or any combination of you are done at 100 plus.
Example 2 blue bills for day not other duck can be killed that day.
One ring neck and a mallard hen your done. 
If the mallard hen is killed first you are done.
This would cause novice hunters to ID birds and protect lower numbers of ducks and increase fines.
I know I missed some other breeds of duck ,but we can add them in.
Lets go back to the old days. When game wardens carried thermometers.
This would improve bird numbers. And stop allot of the killers .


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## king killer delete (Feb 4, 2016)

Only die hards would put up with this.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 4, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> I think we need to bring back the to point system.
> Wood duck 35 points per bird
> Teal Green /Blue wing 20 points per bird
> Canvas Back 100 points
> ...



I never liked the point system, I was so glad when it went the way of the wooly mammoth.  It would be interesting to have a required class to obtain a waterfowl stamp, duck identification, ranging ducks in flight, and conservation, courtesy amongst hunters.....and last but not least, safety in the blind and on the water.


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## jritchey65 (Feb 4, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> I think we need to bring back the to point system.
> Wood duck 35 points per bird
> Teal Green /Blue wing 20 points per bird
> Canvas Back 100 points
> ...



I had no idea that it used to be like this.  I gotta admit that would be tough to hunt like that, but like I said in another post earlier this week, its not ALL about killing birds.  But this would definitely reduce the number of duck hunters in GA, people would drop out like flys I think.


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## GADawg08 (Feb 4, 2016)

GA will never be a waterfowl state such as AR, MS, LA, etc.....some guys will have good success, some will have mediocre seasons, and some guys will complain every year about not killing birds. I'm sure every one of us can place ourselves in one of those three categories. It all comes down to what YOU can do to separate yourself from others.....these guys that have good seasons year after year in GA are adapting to the changes in the sport and finding ways to kill birds. I suggest all the folks complaining about duck hunting in GA do the same


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## king killer delete (Feb 4, 2016)

jritchey65 said:


> I had no idea that it used to be like this.  I gotta admit that would be tough to hunt like that, but like I said in another post earlier this week, its not ALL about killing birds.  But this would definitely reduce the number of duck hunters in GA, people would drop out like flys I think.



One year legal shooting time was from sunrise to sun set and I dont think Georgia had the point system. But I sure did in Kansas in the early 70s.


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## king killer delete (Feb 4, 2016)

When you go down this road more is always better. So like some of the old timers have said be careful what you wish for.


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## wray912 (Feb 4, 2016)

you want to see a change...quit worrying about limiting days, food sources, refuges...figure out a way to get all the yahoos that started hunting 4 and 5 years ago(not saying everybody that just started is part of the problem)that scout by running up groups of birds, shootin birds out of the boat runnin wide open, skybustin with 3 boxes of shells at every bird that comes within 150 yds of them, and just generally antagonizing the birds day in and day out just for their next profile pic on social media...you figure that out and the hunting will be 10 fold what it is now with out spending a dime its not a resource problem its a people problem


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 4, 2016)

king killer delete said:


> One year legal shooting time was from sunrise to sun set and I dont think Georgia had the point system. But I sure did in Kansas in the early 70s.



We didn't I went to Arkansas one year and it was not any fun what so ever....It depended on the order you shot birds as to when you had to stop...The early (if I recall October) wood duck season was always fun, the limits made it worth while to go on it if you liked to eat woodies like I do.


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## antiguoRojo3 (Feb 4, 2016)

wray912 said:


> you want to see a change...quit worrying about limiting days, food sources, refuges...figure out a way to get all the yahoos that started hunting 4 and 5 years ago (not saying everybody that just started is part of the problem)that scout by running up groups of birds, shootin birds out of the boat runnin wide open, skybustin with 3 boxes of shells at every bird that comes within 150 yds of them, and just generally antagonizing the birds day in and day out just for their next profile pic on social media...you figure that out and the hunting will be 10 fold what it is now with out spending a dime its not a resource problem its a people problem



No kidding.  We all know that already.  You can't do the red without modifying how the blue is currently being managed...


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## ThreeAmigos (Feb 4, 2016)

GADawg08 said:


> GA will never be a waterfowl state such as AR, MS, LA, etc.....some guys will have good success, some will have mediocre seasons, and some guys will complain every year about not killing birds. I'm sure every one of us can place ourselves in one of those three categories. It all comes down to what YOU can do to separate yourself from others.....these guys that have good seasons year after year in GA are adapting to the changes in the sport and finding ways to kill birds. I suggest all the folks complaining about duck hunting in GA do the same



It doesn't get any clearer than this. Well said.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

GADawg08 said:


> GA will never be a waterfowl state such as AR, MS, LA, etc.....some guys will have good success, some will have mediocre seasons, and some guys will complain every year about not killing birds. I'm sure every one of us can place ourselves in one of those three categories. It all comes down to what YOU can do to separate yourself from others.....these guys that have good seasons year after year in GA are adapting to the changes in the sport and finding ways to kill birds. I suggest all the folks complaining about duck hunting in GA do the same



And the guys that are Usually trying to change things for the better are the ones that are successful and know what it takes to make a difference.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

GADawg08 said:


> GA will never be a waterfowl state such as AR, MS, LA, etc.....some guys will have good success, some will have mediocre seasons, and some guys will complain every year about not killing birds. I'm sure every one of us can place ourselves in one of those three categories. It all comes down to what YOU can do to separate yourself from others.....these guys that have good seasons year after year in GA are adapting to the changes in the sport and finding ways to kill birds. I suggest all the folks complaining about duck hunting in GA do the same



And the guys that are Usually trying to change things for the better are the ones that are successful because they understand what the ducks need.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 4, 2016)

MudDucker said:


> I hunt mostly in South Georgia/North Florida.  Every other mile there is a swamp.  It is not as vast as LA's swamps, but we have a bunch.  I had an old cypress boat that was similar to a pirogue for this purpose.  I would love to see you run what I've run with an outboard.



Again you are talking about a very small portion of the state.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 4, 2016)

This thread is starting to make my head spin. The bottom line is that there will be guys who will find a way to get their birds. Whether it be on private GA land, public GA land, out of state, or a combination of the three. If it means enough to you and you spend enough effort, you will get them.


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## antiguoRojo3 (Feb 4, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> Again you are talking about a very small portion of the state.



Like the bottom 25%-33% of it? lol.


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## ThreeAmigos (Feb 4, 2016)

antiguoRojo3 said:


> Like the bottom 25%-33% of it? lol.



This is true but I still like using my MM regardless. While I could get to most everywhere with an outboard, I'm at the age where I don't enjoy getting out in certain places and pushing/walking the boat.


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## antiguoRojo3 (Feb 4, 2016)

ThreeAmigos said:


> This is true but I still like using my MM regardless. While I could get to most everywhere with an outboard, I'm at the age where I don't enjoy getting out in certain places and pushing/walking the boat.



I agree.  I love my MM.


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## king killer delete (Feb 4, 2016)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...n-occupier/ar-BBoPAl8?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=SL5BDHP

Here is your tinfoil buddy. This I think happen on a national wild life refuge. They had a reason that they did not like what the feds were doing. And the guy that died for what ever reason he had is still dead. You may think I got tin foil on my head. Your are uniformed.
These are the very folks that are in charge. Right or wrong , The man is still dead. I think they took his gun.
This is what I am trying to tell you folks you as a hunter we as group are same as a street thug in the eyes of the uniformed anti hunters. The LIBs do want you to hunt. Most people in this country do no hunt and the media does like hunting.
You need to be thinking about protecting what we have. Not limiting it.
I know I lost my tin foil.


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## wray912 (Feb 4, 2016)

antiguoRojo3 said:


> No kidding.  We all know that already.  You can't do the red without modifying how the blue is currently being managed...



i disagree...you can have the best place in the world to hunt if you start putin sky busters every 100 yds and people riding around runnin birds all mornin the birds are goin to leave there are some areas west of here that are gettin worse due to pressure alone and its supposed to be some of the best grounds on the planet


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## rnelson5 (Feb 4, 2016)

Just go make the most of it and kill ducks. That is what i do.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 4, 2016)

antiguoRojo3 said:


> Like the bottom 25%-33% of it? lol.



I am not against MM. Heck i have one.


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## HookinLips (Feb 4, 2016)

wray912 said:


> i disagree...you can have the best place in the world to hunt if you start putin sky busters every 100 yds and people riding around runnin birds all mornin the birds are goin to leave there are some areas west of here that are gettin worse due to pressure alone and its supposed to be some of the best grounds on the planet



That's true...so...what do you do about it? Just let it be and watch it get worse or do we do something about it. Limiting the people and eliminating the idiots, yeah that would be nice but how do you suggest we do that without implementing the suggested regs?


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## emusmacker (Feb 4, 2016)

I have a serious question. if the lakes were regulated, how will it keep the idiots from still hunting. If the days are only Wed fri and Sats, then do you really think the idiots will say" dang, can't hunt except for Fridays and Saturdays and Wednesday. But I have to work Friday and Wednesdays so I guess I'm gonna have to only hunt Saturday."  yea I'm sure they will stay home. 

Sure they may not travel 5 to 7 hours to hunt the precious Seminole but they will still be out o an other lake being idiots. So therefore the hunters on that lake will have to deal with them. 
So tell me a fool proof way to stopm idiots from hunting public water.

Even in Bayou Meto where they have restrictions there are still idiots there.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

This is my idea of an obtainable solution with the right group of people pushing it.
-create a refuge area. Birds need to rest.  Get birds to stop here and be in the area.

- manipulate wma to better accommodate waterfowl. Using some portion as a pay area. This can raise funds to support the cost do running them the right way.

-on public water alter aquatic management plans. Stop releasing of carp and spraying of vegetation. Return the water to natural sav's. 

-dnr step up their presence on the water. Help deter negative actions of hunters. Harassing birds, rallying etc.

If you provide the habitat for the birds it will help the birds and the fishing on the lakes and rivers.

If the wma's become better and are more accommodating for success some of the hunters with less skill may choose to hunt here where they have better chance of success than public water. This will reduce pressure on the lakes and rivers.

I know there's issues with accomplishing these feats but I do believe that it would work over time. I know y'all say use a private interest group for improving the land verse wma. But why our money is already going to them for us to use. They should be managed the right way.

If you are interested in getting together to try and start working towards improving the habitat and duck hunting in Georgia or South Carolina send me a message. If there is enough interest we can move forward.


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## across the river (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> This is my idea of an obtainable solution with the right group of people pushing it.
> -create a refuge area. Birds need to rest.  Get birds to stop here and be in the area.




You have refuges now.  Seminole has a refuge area.  Savannah NWR.  I assume there is still the refuge area at Altamaha.  The used to be one at Juliette I assume is still there.  DD and Bulter only get hunted once per week. Phinizy is twice per week and there is essentially a refuge at the park area you can't hunt.  You have refuges now around hunt able areas, that don't help.  How is adding more going to help.  The refuges don't help the Santee lakes much, but they sure enough slaughter ducks on the private corn ponds up at the upper end of the lakes.  The public water guys just watch birds fly between the refuge and the private corn ponds all morning.  



> - manipulate wma to better accommodate waterfowl. Using some portion as a pay area. This can raise funds to support the cost do running them the right way.





Lets say two wardens salaries plus benefits are $100,000 total.  That doesn't include the cost for equipment, diesel, fertilizer, seed, etc...  Even if you managed an area the size of butler where lets say 100 people could hunt each Saturday for 10 weekends (for the sake of round numbers), you would have to charge $100 per person each weekend just to cover two wardens.  Probably well over twice that once you include other costs.   If you try to do this on a 10 or 20 acre impoundment that only a few people could hunt (which would be more realistic for multiple sites) the cost would far more prohibitive.  It wouldn't work.




> -on public water alter aquatic management plans. Stop releasing of carp and spraying of vegetation. Return the water to natural sav's.




Far more people use lakes in Georgia for boat riding and recreation than hunting or fishing.  They don't like vegetation in there houseboat motor or jet ski.  If you think this would happen, you are dreaming.




> -dnr step up their presence on the water. Help deter negative actions of hunters. Harassing birds, rallying etc.



They don't have the money to afford more than one warden per county (if that) and each one of them can't get enough gas money to make it through the month.  How are they going to step up patrols.



> If you provide the habitat for the birds it will help the birds and the fishing on the lakes and rivers.
> 
> If the wma's become better and are more accommodating for success some of the hunters with less skill may choose to hunt here where they have better chance of success than public water. This will reduce pressure on the lakes and rivers.
> 
> ...





I'm not trying to argue, but you just have to look at this from the real world and realize it ain't gonna happen.   Just like there won't be world peace, the government won't be able to forgive you student loans, failing public schools won't get better if you throw more money at them, and there aren't enough rich people out there to tax to make all the poor people's live better.  It is what it is.  Put your time and effort somewhere where you will actually see some results.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

How can they afford it and not Georgia?

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/wetlands.htm


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

How many people are active member do ducks unlimited? At your meetings do you discuss anything about improving habitat? No you socialize and plan a party to raise money to go towards du's goal. What if 10, 20, 30 percent of this money stayed here?


In 2014 ducks unlimited raised 1.36 million dollars in Georgia. If 25% stayed it could do a lot. If 350,000 dollars each year was put back into Georgia what could be accomplished. That is just one organization. How about flyway foundation and private donors. There is money there just need motivated people to go out there and direct it to the right things.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

During the 2011-2012 duck season 40,000 duck stamps were sold. At $5 each that's an additional $200,000 a year. Add that to the 350 from du and another let's say 200,00 from other organizations and private investors  and your looking a three quarter of a million a year. Tell me we couldn't do something with that and you are a liar. 

Renovate wma with pay areas. Let's say each accommodates only 50 hunters and we start with 10 wma's. At $10 a hunter and 3 days a week, and 10 weeks That's another 150,000 a year.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

A lot of this is nothing but greed.  Some do not have the chance to hunt certain days, but in the end, you may regulate yourself right out of it as well.

Want to improve hunting?  Scout, BLUF


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

WOODIE13 said:


> A lot of this is nothing but greed.  Some do not have the chance to hunt certain days, but in the end, you may regulate yourself right out of it as well.
> 
> Want to improve hunting?  Scout, BLUF



The pay areas on wma would be set to certain days. You know some wma's already have set days to hunt. I kill more birds a year than a vast majority here so don't say it's gread, or go scout. It's called being a CONSERVATIONIST.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

But public water, WMAs paid for by ALL hunters, next try


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

WOODIE13 said:


> But public water, WMAs paid for by ALL hunters, next try



What? 

I will take a stab at what I think you may be talking about. Let's say wma x is 100 acres. Well maybe 60 will be open to anyone anytime, or certain days a week dependent upon the wma and how it is set up already. Then maybe a small buffer zone. Then maybe 20-30 acres of planted/managed area. This area would be first come first serve with a fee to hunt.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> What?



They pay for it with license purchases and some matching funds under the Pittman Robertson act



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman–Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act

So it is their's as much as your's or mine


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> What?
> 
> I will take a stab at what I think you may be talking about. Let's say wma x is 100 acres. Well maybe 60 will be open to anyone anytime, or certain days a week dependent upon the wma and how it is set up already. Then maybe a small buffer zone. Then maybe 20-30 acres of planted/managed area. This area would be first come first serve with a fee to hunt.



With my argument, the lands should be open always


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

its still open to public. It doesn't say you can't charge money for addition options only that the money is directed towards making habitat better. And nowhere in what is available there states that it must me open to public. So you need more detail for an argument. And my option is available in other states so I guess it fits the rules. Sorry


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## emusmacker (Feb 4, 2016)

The public already pays for wmas don't they?


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

Yes, there is a wma licens you must buy to hunt them.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

emusmacker said:


> The public already pays for wmas don't they?



Sounds like my argument is sound...even if they buy a license to hunt WMAs


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

Here is a blurb from a wma with a pay section.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Conservation ended opening day, just to be clear.


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

WOODIE13 said:


> Conservation ended opening day, just to be clear.



Do you know what a conversationits does or is? And you talk about the antis wanting to take the rights away. You are ammunition for them.

Link removed by Moderation. No Links to youtube Allowed by forum rules. Embeding required


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## emusmacker (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Here is a blurb from a wma with a pay section.



Sounds like areas already utilizing this.

Again, I ask how will that keep the idiots at home?


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

emusmacker said:


> Sounds like areas already utilizing this.
> 
> Again, I ask how will that keep the idiots at home?



They also have rules for the wma requiring 200 yards between groups for the whole wma. And they limit days to be there. The wma has a rule of noon cut off and you can not come on the property after noon at all or days of non hunting. She'll limits keep sky busting down. There is a game warden that patrols and will sneak into hunting areas to watch. Keeps the extracaricular activities down.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Here is a blurb from a wma with a pay section.



They have a few like that for our OCT season (draw or lottery), after that, it is wide open


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

So you have them so now your argument is totally mute.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> They also have rules for the wma requiring 200 yards between groups for the whole wma. And they limit days to be there. The wma has a rule of noon cut off and you can not come on the property after noon at all or days of non hunting. She'll limits keep sky busting down. There is a game warden that patrols and will sneak into hunting areas to watch. Keeps the extracaricular activities down.



Yet again, government coming in...


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## Woodsedgefarm (Feb 4, 2016)

No it's rules for the wma not public water. So it's not law.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> Do you know what a conversationits does or is? And you talk about the antis wanting to take the rights away. You are ammunition for them.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyFxaKMYGdQ



I am pretty sure I do and I do know what greedy hunters are too, just to be totally clear, haves and have nots, yep, been there


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

I like your signature too, not.  Epic


Signature
If you are not cheating you are not trying. - Tom Brady


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## across the river (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> How can they afford it and not Georgia?
> 
> http://onlinetopomaps.net



They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, so I will try that route. Click on the link below to the map.  Select the HERE map topo from the drop down and look at the map.  All of the well know waterfowl areas, Mississippi Delta, prairie pothole region, eastern NC, califorina valley, eastern maryland, etc..., are all light green.  When people go west to hunt they never say I'm headed to Starkville, MS or Hot Springs, AR, because there aren't a lot of ducks there,even in states known for ducks.  Notice they are in the dark green area.  So the bottom line is no matter where you are or what you do, the dark green areas will never be heavily used by waterfowl.  The light green areas have more agriculture, more surface water, and are therefore the areas waterfowl frequent.  Look at Georgia.  There is very little light  green, and the light green that does exists has very little surface water comparatively speaking. Other than the rivers that flow through they are no natural lakes or other habitat.  Just from a lay of the land standpoint, Georgia not only has less habitat, but it would be prohibitive expensive in most areas to even try to create habitat.  Drive through Mississippi and tell me where the catfish ponds, rice fields, and waterfowl habitat is.  It isn't in the dark green areas I can assure you. You keep trying to compare Georgia to other states, but you are comparing apples and oranges.  Oklahoma has more ducks and better habitat in large part because of how God made it.   It also has 1/3 the number of people of Georgia.   We are back to supply verses demand.  The costs to even move the needle in terms of creating habitat and increasing the overall number of ducks in Georgia  would be prohibitively expensive just simply due to the layout of the land in Georgia.  Therefore Georgia DNR will never make it a high priority, and I completely understand that.


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## WOODIE13 (Feb 4, 2016)

Did not work, but appreciate it


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## emusmacker (Feb 4, 2016)

Woodsedgefarm said:


> No it's rules for the wma not public water. So it's not law.



But isn't a wma considered public? And if the rule is broken will the warden aka LAW enforcement officer give you a citation?  If so would that be considered breakin the law or breaking a rule?


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## emusmacker (Feb 4, 2016)

I like the idea of some WMA's having that type of rules.  Also think it would be good to put those restrictions on some lakes. 
I could possibly even go with a noon cut off on the WMA's too.


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## bradleyjanes06 (Feb 5, 2016)

Would love to see more planted impoundments and nesting areas for ducks.


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## king killer delete (Feb 5, 2016)

bradleyjanes06 said:


> Would love to see more planted impoundments and nesting areas for ducks.



This^^^^^^


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## king killer delete (Feb 5, 2016)

Alright lets us calm down just  a bit. This is a good debate and lets stop the name calling.


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## rnelson5 (Feb 5, 2016)

bradleyjanes06 said:


> Would love to see more planted impoundments and nesting areas for ducks.



In GA? The only real impact in GA you could make is putting out wood duck boxes and maybe improving some habitat along the coast for mottled ducks and tree ducks. Other than that it would be a waste of resources.


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## andyparm (Feb 5, 2016)

rnelson5 said:


> In GA? The only real impact in GA you could make is putting out wood duck boxes and maybe improving some habitat along the coast for mottled ducks and tree ducks. Other than that it would be a waste of resources.



I know of several areas that would definitely not be a waste of time to improve habitat. Obviously the coastal impounds, but also several other public areas that could easily be made into high quality duck habitat. The ducks would come if the money and resources were made available to plant/manage the habitat. Unfortunately instead of slowly improving all I seem to be seeing is a steady decline in quality of habitat and management in my area of the state. 

How do we go about getting something started? A letter to DU? A letter to our politicians? The main thing we all complain about on this forum is more hunters and less habitat. The only good thing about more hunters is...there's more of us. Someone on here has some political intelligence. I do not. I don't know how these things work. I'm not talking about all of the negative keyboard warriors either. Someone who legitimately knows what they're talking about and has a few connections could get something started. Get in the right person's ear...

I'm working on winning the lottery so I can have more pull. Money talks


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## rnelson5 (Feb 5, 2016)

I was talking about nesting habitat not the inpoundments


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