# power belts are horrible!!!!!!! (sorry kinda long)



## jimmystriton (Nov 30, 2009)

I shoot a .45 with 100 gr of pyrodex. The gun shoots great and shoots very accurate. Here is the problem. Shot a deer in the shoulder (right behind) deer runs 35 yds and lays down. All i can see is her rump. I reload and watch about ten min later she gets up and walks off i shoot her again (both shots around 65 yds) she jumps in the air and then walks off. NO BLOOD AT ALL. My sister shoots .50 cal with power belts she shoots a deer in the neck (as not to ruin any meat) at 10 yds. Deer drops and is flopping and she wants to put it out of her misery. Shoots again in the neck at ten yds. deer flops around for a few more seconds and lays out flat. No issue dead deer..... after about 5 min deer stands up and walks away. found very little blood. Then i shoot a buck at ten yds. get no blood and no pass through. He went 150 yds. Bow no issue, rifle or shotgun no issue. I am stupmed on this muzzleoading stuff. I think it is the bullets. I found the bullet in the buck on the far side. There was 0 blood anywhere around him even where he died. I am thinking about trying the barnes bullets any ideas???


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## miles58 (Nov 30, 2009)

People re4port accuracy problems with powerbelts fairly often, but I have never heard of issues with terminal performance.

If you do go with the Barnes, I have found that throwing away the sabot they come with and using a TC sabot makes loading much easier and does not hurt accuracy.


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## DonArkie (Nov 30, 2009)

my buddy uses them in CVA  Optma, 223 gr. Aero Tip's and drops them dead.


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## FrontierGander (Nov 30, 2009)

short shots, heavy powder charges, light weight powerbelt bullets often result in poor results.

My advice would be to get some loose powder, start off at 70gr and slowly go 5 to 10 grains increments until its shooting tight. 

A custom tipped 362 grain powerbelt shot at a doe in Sept. with 100gr pyrodex RS @ 125 yards.

Entrance,






Exit,





I've been making these for almost a year now, they are a Anti-Over Expansion Insert for the powerbelt bullets. As the soft lead bullet mushrooms, it grabs onto the Threaded Insert which is cast from Hard lead.


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## FrontierGander (Nov 30, 2009)

Heres one of my Custom Tipped Powerbelts (Far left) VS two regular 245gr Powerbelt Aerotips.





Custom tipped 362 grain with 100gr Pyrodex. 





Here you can see the insert with the powerbelts soft lead tightly hugging the hard lead insert,





Another.









Regular 348gr Powerbelts with the same charge,


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## FrontierGander (Nov 30, 2009)

As for the barnes, check out the fullbore projectile,  www.thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net  Check out the Thor Bullets section.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 30, 2009)

Ya`ll are way ahead of me. I only shoot patched round ball. I have good luck with them.


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## tbrown913 (Nov 30, 2009)

i have never had any problem with these bullets, but, i have only shot 2 deer.  one at about 40 yards, and one at 170 yards.  the close deer ran 30 yards, and the hail marry shot dropped in its tracks.  but, since i am out of these bullets, your posts make me think twice about these bullets.


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## shadow2 (Nov 30, 2009)

Cletus i have never been real happy with the performance of  them.  the only real reason i shot them is they were recomended to me when i got my first smokepole.  no that i am about out of them i will be going with TC or barns bullets next year.


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## chicken cow (Nov 30, 2009)

I used to shoot the powerbelts aero tips, killed 3 lost 2...and all 5 never had a blood trail. sound crazy i know for a .50 cal..I have read a ton of reveiws and everybody that shoots blackpowder says accuracy is poor. It makes sense cuz the bullet loads so easy, it rattles down the barrel, love the t/c shockwave, they dont load easy, but my groups are really tight and finally getting a blood trail.


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## ETK (Nov 30, 2009)

I shot a deer Saturday at 225 yards with my 50 caliber Encore using 245 grain T/C EXPRESS hollow points. I was well propted with a great rest on my ladder stand. The deer jumped straight up and ran off the powerline into the woods.  I waited for about an hour before I went to get her. We found blood as the deer entered the woods and tracked it for about 100 yards and then we could not find anymore blood. We searched in circles for over an hour and did not find anymore blood or the deer. I am very confused but I think I may have it her a little low.   By the way my gun will shoot a one inch group at 200 yards with the Leupold Ultimate Slam BDC Scope.  I was not just holding high and guessing at that distance.  Any opinions are welcome. Just trying to figure out what may have happened.


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## LanceColeman (Nov 30, 2009)

Power belts are way way too soft. As in they are actually designed shaped and made softer than a roundball.

My bro in law shoots a 150gr charge behind 348gr power belts and does NOT GET EXIT WOUNDS. My WIFE shoots 100grs behind a TC shockwave and gets HUGE exit wounds.

I shoot 80grs of 3F real black powder behind a .530 round ball in a 54 cal and get massive wound channels and nasty exit wounds (like nicodemus..... if it aint broke?? don't fix it)

Hollow point rounds set in sabots are merely pistol bullets and are designed to go terminal and mushroon up too fast. Hollow points with tip inserts or ballistic regulators tend to be jacketed a bit harder like the barnes rounds TC shockwaves and Hornady XTPS (same thing as a shockwave) or hornadys sst tips.

You start jacking massive charges behind a round deisgned to splatter fast and it's merely going to splatter even faster. If it's designed with a jacket swaged around a creamy lead center for extreme terminal effects?? more than likely it's going to FRAGMENTat super high velocities on hard bone impact.

Some western states such as Colorado and Montana are in the works to ban scoped inlines from elk hunting because even though a solid inline can group a good saboted round with 150grs of powder behind it at 200yds, does not mean it's carrying efficient kinetic energy at that range to gain desired penetration on big game animals. especially where hard bone is impacted.

Gotta keep in mind that even though they blow massive holes through deer at 50yds.... shockeys gold, 777, BH209, they're still an inferior charge to modern smokeless cartridges. And your sabot isn't a corelokt.

I blew through several several several deer with TC shockwaves and they always did their job. Even out at 150yds. But when I tried to  send one through a shield on a big boar at 100?? totally different story. The bigger harder the critter?? the farther away they are?? the more the limit of primitive arms are pushed.

At 100yds my 54 cal loaded with roundballs explodes 5 gallon buckets full of water with a round ball. At 200yds it just knocks a hole in the front of the bucket and the water leaks out. 

News flash. I get the exact same results with my encore, shockeys gold, and 250TC shockwaves.

My suggestion would be if you pan on shooting such long ranges with inlines to actually do some research and get you some actual bullets and put them in your own sabots. Sierra bullets makes 45 and 44 caliber rounds in both kieth flatnose, a spitzer blazer type, and even a game king. These are harder rounds designed to be shot at higher velocities from pistols for hunting. They'll stay together better. HOWEVER what you will gain in penetration you will lose in kersplat mode. meaning a harder round will penetrate deeper than todays soft muzzle loader projectiles, but they won't expand like todays modern muzzle loader projectiles. I believe barnes has one specifically designed from muzzle loaders for bigger heavier boned game. This would mean as harder round that will stay together and penetrated better.


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## swamp hunter (Nov 30, 2009)

Them Folks about just about covered it all , And way better than me. but I don,t get total pass thru with Power Belts either. I just like the way they slide down the barrel. And they group good at 75 yards. Think maybe some of you Folks are tryin to make a Muzzle Loader into a Carolina Bean Field gun???.


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## FrontierGander (Nov 30, 2009)

if you like the way they slide down the barrel but are unhappy with the performance,  www.thorbullets.com are awesome. Ive shot and tested a few hundred so far and if i ever stop shooting powerbelts completely, the Thors will take their place.


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## FrontierGander (Nov 30, 2009)

Heres a report from one of my members from this evening. He just posted........









Great opening day for me!  

 Today was cloudy with temperatures in the 40â€™s coupled by rain and drizzle.  I was in the woods by light and had three sits in the morning without any sightings.  On my fifth sit of the day at around 3:00 p.m. I started calling.  After about ½ hour I had this button buck take an interest in my doe estrous bleat call and came-in to within about 35 yards of me.  Before I could get my crosshairs on him he bounced off back into the scrub pine.  I waited about 10 minutes then began calling again.  Determined to hook up with a late hot doe, he came back to my estrous bleat call a second time!  He stopped at about 60 yards and gave me a slight, uphill quartering away shot.  The 275 grain Powerbelt Hollow point hit its mark and passed through him like a hot knife on butter.  He immediately tumbled, got back up, did a few drunken side steps, then collapsed again and was down for the count.  The 275 grain bullet was backed by 90 grains of Pyrodex (three - 30 grain pellets). 

 [FG, I still didnâ€™t get your custom .45 inserts in the mail for todayâ€™s hunt, so I had stuffed the Hollow Point with Forney solder].  I donâ€™t think this deer knew what hit him.





bullet entrance








Bullet exit

Time to dig out my recipes!!


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## ETK (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks Lance.  Very informative.  Do you think 200 yards is too far to shoot a deer with a muzzleloader? I was so hung up and impressed on the accuracy that I forgot about the actual killing abilty.  Thanks again.


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## urdaddyjeep (Nov 30, 2009)

i use 100gr of powder and 300gr hollow points... never had an issue.. went to 100gr powder and powerbelts and now I am 0-1 so I am not sure... find out this weekend...


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## LanceColeman (Nov 30, 2009)

I dunno man. It is pushing it pretty hard @ 200yds. I can't say for certain because I've never shot a deer at 200yds with a muzzle loader. I've shot them over 600 with a centerfire but my farthest muzzle loader was around 140 with an encore. 

But you're absolutely right. When you can HIT something that far the accuracy does make you wish to try it. *IF* you can keep murphy at bay and everything goes according to plan and you manage that perfect broadside rib only double lung?? then yes I do believe I would wiegh heavily on the "oh yes sir!" side. But all it's going to take is a shoulder hit on a big solid buck or less than desirable angle to change that scenerio. It's like bowhunting. accuracy is going to be the most vital part of the equation. And In my broadhead testing I can tell you now although we're comparing kinetic energy and momentum here, its definately harder to get something through a 5 gallon bucket than it is a deers rib cage.  


I just came back from Louisiana visiting with the folks and hunting swamps,  long shooting lanes and bean fields. While there I did some "play time" in a 300 acre hey field with my sidelocks. It's pretty cool to hear the guns report shatter the air, the smoke be almost completely gone and then hear the actual impact of a 54 caliber roundball. I was shooting iron sights and could consistantly hit my target at 150 yds (thats "HIT"... NOT GROUP!). And manage a pretty fair average at 175yds. But for the life of me couldn't manage but 3 out of 12 at 200yds. Granted 200yds is making me raise that front sight so far above the groove in the rear I sometimes lose left right windage in my site picture.

With my encore and a bdc Nikon it was no trouble at all. But again if thats what I was looking for?? I would chrono some heavier harder bullets and adjust on my bdc for it.


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## tv_racin_fan (Nov 30, 2009)

Lance, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Seems to me folks are tryin to push that soft lead projectile like it was a hard cast or core lokt or Nosler Partitian. It wont work the same. Now run that power belt at the speeds it was designed for (round ball speeds) and I bet you get exactly what you are looking for. Run it just a tad faster and I bet you get the results you want out to 200 yards,  careful; at 200 yard speeds it is going to explode on an up close shot. Round ball has been known to kill at longer range than that. Slow those hollow points down a bit and I bet you get good results out to 125 or so. Or like you mentioned sub those hollowpoints for a good heavy Keith nosed hard cast or some jacketted soft point and I bet you again got a 200 yard MLer. Pretty much the same type of projectile you would use in a 45/70.

Something like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=2046216224

Or this jacketted soft point:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=193158


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## polaris30144 (Dec 1, 2009)

Anyone hating their powerbelts, send them to me. I love them and have no issue with them. I shoot them at round ball velocities and have never had a failure. I don't want a pass through shot since that means the bullet wasted energy down range after passing through. I guess I pick my shots more careful since I am not in a contest to see how many or how far. I shoot them at 15-150 yards and they work for me. So if anyone has some they don't want, send them on over to me, I will use them.


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## chicken cow (Dec 1, 2009)

polaris30144 said:


> Anyone hating their powerbelts, send them to me. I love them and have no issue with them. I shoot them at round ball velocities and have never had a failure. I don't want a pass through shot since that means the bullet wasted energy down range after passing through. I guess I pick my shots more careful since I am not in a contest to see how many or how far. I shoot them at 15-150 yards and they work for me. So if anyone has some they don't want, send them on over to me, I will use them.



dont want a pass through??...wasting energy


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## FrontierGander (Dec 1, 2009)

ive only ever had one powerbelt not exit and the blood trail it left was awesome. The other time i didnt have a pass through was with an elk i shot from 140 yards with a .54cal sidelock and .530 round ball. The blood trail it left was also awesome. A pass through may offer 2 blood trails, depends on the shot placement more than else.

A gut shot wont bleed much if at all. 

Penetration,penetration,Penetration!


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## Capt Gary (Dec 1, 2009)

Shoot Barnes or Hornady SST's. No problems.


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## polaris30144 (Dec 1, 2009)

chicken cow said:


> dont want a pass through??...wasting energy




I guess you must know more than the people that design bullets as far as terminal performance. Bullet manufacturers design bullets to expend all of their energy within the target. The ideal bullet is not designed to pass through like a broad head. Using a bullet that blows through an animal causes more lost animals than ones that stay inside. Read a little history about hunting bullet design and effectiveness. Most hunters use way to much gun and too heavy a bullet to make up for marginal shot placement. White Tail deer in Georgia are not "super deer", people have been hunting and all but killing deer into extinction far longer than you or I have been alive without all of the "super, blow trees down beyond the deer" bullets. Pass through shots give better blood trails for inexperienced hunters. Every hunter that loses a deer blames the bullet, caliber or gun, they never take credit for a bad shot.


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## 30-338 (Dec 1, 2009)

Unlike with my centerfire rifles, I have not put much effort into developing a load for my muzzleloader.  I shoot a fifty cal Knight disc rifle.  I use 150 grains (3) fifty grain pellets of pyrodex and a 200 grain Hornady XTP pistol bullet.  I use the same bullets when reloading my .44 mag for deer hunting.  I bought the sabots by themselves and the gun shot about 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards.  I have shot several deer from about 10 yards to about fifty yards.  I lost a deer one time when I shot it at about 100 yards.  I think I shot low because the deer ran off and then went out of sight.  I went to where I last saw the deer and it got up and ran off, but I could tell its front leg was injured.  I have seen no reason to change.


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## Skyjacker (Dec 2, 2009)

I have had a couple of bad experiences with Power Belts.  In one case I was using them on a Kansas hunt and the Power Belts just didn't get optimal expansion and penetration.  I've heard of accuracy issues with them as well from a few people.  There's a muzzleloader forum on accuratereloading.com and most of the hard core inline muzzleloader people hate them too.

I have since switched to Thompson Shockwaves and have been very pleased.


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## clayfish (Dec 2, 2009)

I've shot 2 deer with powerbelts. The first was a doe at about 50 yards. The shot knocked her down and rolled her over. She kicked a few times then got up and ran off the field leaving absolutly no blood trail. I never found her. The other was a small buck that I shot at 15 yards. He ran about 40 yards and died but left no blood trail. There was no exit wound. I'm just glad he died before he got in the thick stuff or I would have never found him.

I don't shoot powerbelts any more for this reason alone. They shoot great and are very accurate in my CVA optima but if they won't kill the deer then they're worthless.


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## CRT (Dec 2, 2009)

clayfish said:


> I've shot 2 deer with powerbelts. The first was a doe at about 50 yards. The shot knocked her down and rolled her over. She kicked a few times then got up and ran off the field leaving absolutly no blood trail. I never found her. The other was a small buck that I shot at 15 yards. He ran about 40 yards and died but left no blood trail. There was no exit wound. I'm just glad he died before he got in the thick stuff or I would have never found him.
> 
> I don't shoot powerbelts any more for this reason alone. They shoot great and are very accurate in my CVA optima but if they won't kill the deer then they're worthless.



Just wondering, how much powder/pellets were you using?

I currently use PBs but I'm thinking about switching to something else.

Thanks


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## Skyjacker (Dec 2, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> Just wondering, how much powder/pellets were you using?
> 
> I currently use PBs but I'm thinking about switching to something else.
> 
> Thanks



I used to use 150 grains of powder pellets and I believe the 245 grain Power Belt.   Switch before you lose a nice buck.


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## clayfish (Dec 4, 2009)

> Just wondering, how much powder/pellets were you using?
> 
> I currently use PBs but I'm thinking about switching to something else.
> 
> Thanks



The first was using 100g of loose pyrodex and the other was 150g pellet 777.


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## ejs1980 (Dec 4, 2009)

I think you could do ok with the heavier powerbelts. I hunted with 90 grains of pyrodex under a hornandy 240 xtp for years and bought some 195 grain powerbelt hollow points a couple years ago and went with 100 grains. Accuracy was fine but the first time I pulled the trigger on a deer I was dissapointed. Broadside shot on a doe at 20 yards. I lost sight of her at about forty yards. There were eight deer beside her at the shot and they all ran in the same direction. Didn't hear anything crash. Got down found one drop of blood. Crawled around for an hour trying to find another spec of blood. Drove the four wheeler around in the brush making long sweeping passes in the direction she dissapeared. By now it's a couple hours after dark and I've already spooked a couple deer so I gave up. Two days later I see buzzards start circling and keep an eye on them. They found her for me about 100 yards from where I shot. So technically they performed well on the killing part. I hit her just behind the shoulder a little high but at the angle the bullet should have exited low on the other. The belt was lodged in the entrance wound a little blackened but still identifiable. There was anough blood there to stick a couple hairs together but that was it. The bullet was low on the other side just under the skin in two pieces that looked like someone had flattend it out with a hammer and cut it in half.  I lost more blood in the briers trying to find the deer than the deer lost with a double lung shot. SO I have about 10 powerbelts someone can have If they want to try them on varmints.


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## Robk (Dec 5, 2009)

I shoot the Platinum PB's in 270 gr in front of 150gr of 777 pellets.   drops them in thier tracks everytime.  just got to find what works for your gun.  I've yet to have one carry more than 30 yards.


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## HuntNut (Dec 14, 2009)

I shoot the 300gr Platinum in 45cal and 50cal.  with 100gr and 150gr depending on where I am hunting and how far I am shooting and have not had a problem. The Platinum's are made of a little harder lead and designed to pass thru. Although I have had pass thrus with regular Powerbelts with the right charge behind them.


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## Davexx1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Many report very poor terminal performance and lost deer with the PB bullets.

Dave


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## FrontierGander (Dec 14, 2009)

after a 5 day elk hunt with a  30-06, my brother in laws nephew lost a cow elk. Wasnt bullet failure, It was poor shot placement. If you cant recover the deer, you cant exactly say it was the bullets fault. Shoot off hand like you do during hunting season and see how well the accuracy is.


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Dec 16, 2009)

I've killed 3 deer with 50 caliber 295 grain Copper Clad Hollow Points.  2 have dropped in their tracks, and the other left a 40 yard blood trail that a blind man could follow.  All but one exitted.  The one that didn't exit was a straight-on shot that dumped all it's energy into the heart before lodging in the sternum.  She was dead before the smoke cleared and never even kicked.  That was 30 yards with 150 grains of Pyrodex.  I will continue to use pellets (for convenience) and Powerbelts.


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