# Toys for bird dogs?



## SeanandBrice (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm getting ready for Charlee's home coming in about three weeks. She's the little lady in my avatar. Went on a little shopping spree and spent a small fortune getting her set up for our home. New kennel, mattress, dishes, grooming stuff, etc. Well, I've read a little about proper toys to keep her from getting hard mouthed. So far she has a kong, a hard ball you hide treats in, pig ears, and a couple tennis balls to fetch. I'm just wondering if there's something out there they really love to play with.

So here's my question: What is your retrievers favorite toy?


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## 243Savage (Nov 12, 2011)

SeanandBrice said:


> So here's my question: What is your retrievers favorite toy?



Mine has always really liked those knotted rope toys from the very first day we brought him home.  He's about a year old now and has a rather large one he slings all over the house and it's about time to be replaced.  They are supposed to be good for their teeth also as it sort of "flosses" when they chew on them.  He carrys his everywhere.


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## shakey gizzard (Nov 12, 2011)

pigeons!


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 12, 2011)

shakey gizzard said:


> pigeons!



She's got 87 quail eggs in the incubater so hopefully we got that covered. I'll have to get her a rope too. That pup in that pic sure seems to like'm. I had a pup when I was a kid that carried a tennis ball like that. Everywhere she went, that tennis ball was in her mouth. She'd lay down and put it between her paws while she ate or drank.


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## shakey gizzard (Nov 12, 2011)

SeanandBrice said:


> She's got 87 quail eggs in the incubater so hopefully we got that covered. I'll have to get her a rope too.



 Beware on the rope toy with unsupervised play/chewing! Many O dogs have gone to the ER for intestinal blockage.


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 12, 2011)

shakey gizzard said:


> Beware on the rope toy with unsupervised play/chewing! Many O dogs have gone to the ER for intestinal blockage.



Thanks, that's good to know. I'll make sure to get a quality one and keep that one out of the kennel. Gotta make sure the kids don't pluy tug-o-war with it too.


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 12, 2011)

shakey gizzard said:


> Beware on the rope toy with unsupervised play/chewing! Many O dogs have gone to the ER for intestinal blockage.



I was doing some google research on this and it led me to reading about the "Greenie" chews. Apparently those things are potential disasters too. They break off in large pieces. They will not dissolve in acid or enzymes, even with high levels of acid and agitation. There's some litigation allegedly going on against the makers. I'll be sure to stay away from those!


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## Strych9 (Nov 13, 2011)

tennis balls, and deer antlers seem to be a favorite of mine.


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## buckhunter3987 (Nov 13, 2011)

I made the mistake of knotting up a couple of old socks to start mine fetching in the house as a pup, now he thinks all socks are toys. Luckily he dosen't like to tear them up just slobbers all over them.


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## bobman (Nov 15, 2011)

SeanandBrice said:


> I'm getting ready for Charlee's home coming in about three weeks. She's the little lady in my avatar. Went on a little shopping spree and spent a small fortune getting her set up for our home. New kennel, mattress, dishes, grooming stuff, etc. Well, I've read a little about proper toys to keep her from getting hard mouthed. So far she has a kong, a hard ball you hide treats in, pig ears, and a couple tennis balls to fetch. I'm just wondering if there's something out there they really love to play with.
> 
> So here's my question: What is your retrievers favorite toy?



google pigs ears and salmonella, then throw them away

don't leave a pup with anything ever that they can possibly chew a hunk off and swallow unless its a digestible product like a milk bone, because they will

don't play tug of war with your pup thats about the only thing that will make them hard mouthed

DO take the pup for walks as often as possible in as many different safe places as possible to get it socialized 

if you cannot watch the pup to keep it from chewing up stuff, kennel it or crate it 

the pup should be burning off energy running around outside WITH YOUR SUPERVISION not chewing on toys

 pups have no way of discerning an allowed chew thing with one thats not allowed. I discourage chewing ( they all do it especially when they are teething so you have to be real careful about what they have to chew) 

a tired pup is a good pup pointers need a lot of exercise especially when they are pups

just my opinion with 40 years experience training and raising pointing dogs all my dogs stay in my house FWIW


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## Setter Jax (Nov 15, 2011)

Sean,

I love this company Gundogsonline.  Good products and fast shipping.  I get about 90% of my stuff from there.

I like using the quail, pheasant and grouse dummys, get some small bumpers. I also use the quail harness and wing pigeon harness.  If you have an Academy Sporting good, Bass Pro, Gander mountain store they all have upland dog supplies.  Go check them out to.

Here is the link

http://www.gundogsonline.com/great-gift-ideas/pointer-gifts/

I also go to thrift stores and pick up small stuffed animals.  You can get them for less then a buck.  Just be careful and watch her.  She is going to chew them up.  Only let her play with them if supervised.

Watch ebay and they have good stuff too.

P.M. me your mailing address and I will send you some pheasant and quail wings.  Use a long fishing pole and let your pup point and chase the wing.  Don't overdue the wing.  I also have a good book to send you by Walters. I have two sets.

Good luck and post pics as she gets bigger.  I want to see how her coloring comes out. 

Read the book I'm going to send you and watch the tapes while you are waiting for her. Start your training right away as soon as you get her home. Work her all summer and if you want to do a hunt next year I will be glad to take you out.

Start saving up for an e-collar.  It's not for discipline, it's for her safety and to be used as a training aide. I found one cheap on craigslist, they have a life time warranty and you get  parts if needed cheap.  Read up on them on gundogsonline, he rates the different brands.

Thanks and good luck.

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Nov 15, 2011)

bobman said:


> google pigs ears and salmonella, then throw them away
> 
> don't leave a pup with anything ever that they can possibly chew a hunk off and swallow unless its a digestible product like a milk bone, because they will
> 
> ...



Good advice X 2

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Nov 15, 2011)

Sean,

Another word of advice I was a bad doggy daddy for years.  I fed them cheap dog food, now I know better. Feed your dog a good quality dog food.  I can really see the difference in the dogs. Less health issues and trips to the vet, high energy levels, their coats look shining and there is less dog waste to clean up.  It really makes a big difference.  I went with a four star dog food, 4 Health at tractor supply, you feed less and it's better for them.  It's cheaper in the long run.  Check out this link on the Upland forum.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=647695&highlight=dog+food+supplements

Here is the link to a non bias rating of dog food.  Feed your new dog the best dog food you can afford.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

SJ


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 15, 2011)

bobman said:


> google pigs ears and salmonella, then throw them away
> 
> don't leave a pup with anything ever that they can possibly chew a hunk off and swallow unless its a digestible product like a milk bone, because they will
> 
> ...



Thanks, bobman! Great advice! She'll be an inside dog. She will be crate trained and someone is always home. I'm on the fence with chewing myself. I understand it is a normal part of puppy behavior and don't mind giving them something while they have the puppy teeth. I believe they can be trained what they can chew if they are crate trained. She'll have plenty of room to play on her own, and with three yardapes I'm sure she'll stay tired too. 



Setter Jax said:


> Sean,
> 
> I love this company Gundogsonline.  Good products and fast shipping.  I get about 90% of my stuff from there.
> 
> ...



Great video! I'll watch it a few times more before she comes home. The kids have donated a pile of stuffed toys that don't have eyes and things that can come off. We are supposed to be getting an Academy here in Hiram in 2012. We have one back home in Chattanooga so I know all about them. I can't wait to get one here. I'll swing by the one back home over the holiday while we're there. I'm trying to figure out which collar Hickox is using in the video. I figure I'll get the same one. Do you know which one he is using? It has the double collar feature for the belly and neck setup with the low level stimulation. I didn't realize how much stuff I will need to build (table/fetching bench, silouette, etc.) The video is a great help. Sure answered alot of questions. 





Setter Jax said:


> Sean,
> 
> Another word of advice I was a bad doggy daddy for years.  I fed them cheap dog food, now I know better. Feed your dog a good quality dog food.  I can really see the difference in the dogs. Less health issues and trips to the vet, high energy levels, their coats look shining and there is less dog waste to clean up.  It really makes a big difference.  I went with a four star dog food, 4 Health at tractor supply, you feed less and it's better for them.  It's cheaper in the long run.  Check out this link on the Upland forum.
> 
> ...



Yes, I agree. We had a Newfoundland that we did rescue training with. He taught us the value of good dog food several years ago. He ended up needing a primarily fish diet and was allergic to corn. Pretty simple to figure out when you study his ancestry, but it made for a learning experience for us. We switched to a quality fish based food and problem solved. I'll do some research and figure out what she'll be fed. I don't mind the cost as much as I do going out of the way to get it. I'm wondering about that no preservative stuff at Wal-Mart. They have a cooler there in the pet section now with this stuff in it. I haven't read about it yet, or read the ingredients. I'll do some research and make sure whatever she gets is meat based good stuff.


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 16, 2011)

I figured out that Hickox is using the D.T. Systems 2400 collar. He uses the 2-dog set-up with one collar for the neck and one for the belly with the low level settings. DAGGUM!!! That collar is $500.00!!! I'm going to look around and see what's comparable. Does that collar system have anything besides the low level setting and two dog set-up that you need to use his training system? I can bite the bullet if I have to, but we're talking college tuition prices here!

Here's a link to the collar he uses. Add $120 for the two dog set-up.

http://www.gundogsonline.com/dog-tr...tems/dt-systems-spt-2420-training-collar.html

...and here's that food I was talking about. It's called Freshpet Select slice'n serve. 
http://freshpet.com/our-brands/
The puppy food version lists the ingredients as follows; Chicken, Eggs, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Brown Rice, Peas, Rice Bran, Carrageenan, Salt, Natural Flavors.

What appeals to me is that it lists meat as the first ingredients, doesn't have preservative chemicals, comes in a variety to keep the dogs diet more natural, and is available at grocery stores and Wal-Mart which I have within a mile from me. Opinions?

By the way, http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-select-slice-serve/, gives it a 5 star rating and lists it as "enthusiastically recommended".


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## Setter Jax (Nov 16, 2011)

I will try and answer some of your questions.  You don't need a silhouette for backing and honoring.  When she is old enough to hunt, just find some hunting buddies with trained dogs.  9 times out of 10 she will learn to back and honor on her own.  

For the force fetch training, you might not need it.  Her first few months should be play time training.  Start her playing fetch right away and you might not need to do the force fetch training at all.  You want to avoid force fetch if you can. If you do have to do the force fetch, you can use a long fold up table instead and make the rest.  You really don't need a 16 foot table to train force fetch.

I wouldn't train force fetch until after her second year on birds or the summer after her first year on birds.  The first year you just want her to have fun and be bird crazy.  Do not over correct her here first year.  Second year of hunting is when you get serious with the training.

She will let you know when she is ready for the next stage of training.  It's not hard it's just repetitive, over and over again. The book I'm sending you says if you do this training method 15 minutes every day you will have a trained gundog in 6 months.  It was made for the weekend warrior. lol 

I like all the fancy stuff but can't afford it. I figure out how to make it myself.  The force fetch is a onetime use, so unless you are thinking about getting another dog or training pointers I don't think it's worth the cost and time to build the table.

Training Collars.  I went with the Sport Dog 800, it's not the best collar but not the worse and it's rated well.  It's the biggest bang for your buck and affordable. I found one on craigslist for 75.00 bucks.  You will see a lot of gear on sale after the hunting season. Check craigslist and eBay.

Additionally, there are different opinions about teaching whoa.  I have never used the second collar in whoa training. You can start whoa training from the start. 

When you feed her, tell her whoa, she has to stop and freeze before she can eat.  If she is an inside dog, tell her whoa at the door, you go through the door first and then release her.  

As far as the dog food, I would start her out on a quality dry food. Here is my reasoning.  When I go hunting I feed the dogs before we go.  I feed them again after the hunt and again when I get home.  Your dog is going to run for 5 to 6 hours non-stop for you probably over 10 or 15 miles. They are going to burn up a lot of energy.  I know guys when they go out west switch their dogs back to a puppy food for the extra protein and stuff. Taking wet food in the field could be a problem.  Same thing if you go up north to a grouse camp, or out west for Pheasant and chucker hunt.  Just something to think about.


SJ


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## Setter Jax (Nov 16, 2011)

Training........

Here are a few things to think about concerning training.  What are you looking to accomplish?

Example, my gundogs are family pets and hunting companions. They are also spoiled, they eat healthier and better than I do, have comfy pillows in there creates and spend 8 months out of the year just loafing around. In the summer they lay around in the back yard and swim in my pool while I’m at work.  lol

I do not do the field trial stuff, or the AKC hunt test.  I'm not knocking it, I've gone to a few and I like to watch, but in my opinion, unless you are going to be a breeder or your main goal is competition I don't see the point in training your dog to not move on point and steady to wing and shot.  What you want to accomplish will play a big part on how you will train your dog.

My main goal is a gundog.  I train my dogs to come, whoa, easy, and to quarter with hand signals and whistle commands.  My dogs point, back, honor, retrieve (still working on that), change direction on the quarter and are steady to wing. They break on shot.  This is not a bad thing because my male setter is the best at crippled and downed birds. You just don't want them to chase and bust the bird after it lands.  I call them back in if I miss the shot.  

Some train not to move at all on point. But if you are hunting wild birds, a wild bird is not going to stay still for long, they run and they try to escape, i.e. the pheasants (they are roadrunners lol).  My dogs will relocate, and re-point and trap birds.  If I tell them whoa they will stay locked on point, I tell them easy and they will relocate and pen the birds.  Does this make since???

Read as much material as you can get your hands on.  Decide on what you want out of your new gundog and train that way.  If you run into problems during training ask other people on the upland page.  There are a ton of guys on there that have been doing this for a long time.

Also there are a ton of opinions about training.....  lol  Good luck and have fun and enjoy spending time with your new pup. With a 1/4 of retriver in her I don't think you will have problems with the fetch.  My dads best dog is 1/2 Brit and 1/2 GSP.  Some mixes make the best gundogs.

SJ


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the great advice! 





Setter Jax said:


> Training........
> 
> Here are a few things to think about concerning training.  What are you looking to accomplish?
> 
> SJ



She will be a family pet who loves to go hunting like my son and I do. I'm kinda looking at it like she will be in training while I am too. I know I enjoy training, love dogs, and love hunting, so it just seems like something I should try. As for the trials, maybe in the future. But I don't think Charlee qualifies being 3/4 English Setter and 1/4 Lab, does she? I know there is a group that she could get special permission to test with, but they're located a good ways from me. I have no plans on trials for her. If it turns into something I'm passionate about, then we'll see about getting a dog for that purpose. Seeing her training pay off, getting on the birds, and having fun doing it will be satisfaction plenty enough for me. She's gonna be a spoiled house dog like you described yours, except I hope to keep her out of the pool. It's above ground and I'd have to build something so she can get in and out of it without tearing up our liner. I hope your right on the fetching. We have a hallway and I've told the kids about playing fetch with her and how to do it, so hopefully they help with that. Good point on the dry food, I never thought of that. I stopped and checked the price on the Freshpet, and found out it's $3 a pound. I can do a raw diet cheaper than that anyway, although not as convenient. I did that before and the dog loved it, but what a pain! I'll do some more research. There's a place right down the road from me called "Red Bandana Natural Pet Foods". I may swing in there and see what they're all about. Thanks again for all your help. It seems every answer to a question raises another. As for the training aids, I have a wood shop and probably have most of the stuff to build what I need. It's good to know she may not need the force fetch, as that looked like no fun at all. The silouettes, that sounds fun to build anyways. I'm sure the kids would get a kick out of painting a bunch of Charlee's. And I'm thinking the breaking on shot like you're doing is what I should probably do as well. I have awhile to think about it before we get there.


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## Scotsman (Nov 16, 2011)

All good points, here. As I mentioned to you before, the instinct to hunt and point is already there within the dog. Each dog is different. I have had dogs that, as SJ stated, will back and honor point on their own. You do want a disciplined dog, so that is what has to be taught. SJ has it covered.....come, whoa, heel, easy.  Each dog or breed of dog has characteristics inherent of their breed. The setter bloodline of these pups was bred for a close foot-hunting dog, such as might be used for grouse in very thick cover. Max has in his lineage, Ryman, Pinecobble and DeCoverly. 

BTW, we like tennis balls for fetch.  

Good luck, and I wish you the best. Charlee Mae is bigger now and looking great!


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## Setter Jax (Nov 16, 2011)

Scotsman,

Your setter is a good looking boy and if I didn’t have four dogs all ready I would have picked up one of your pups.  Lol  I really liked Max Jr. I like his looks and his bloodlines. 

Sean, 38% of having a great gundog  is bloodlines, so your are half way there.  The rest is up to you and training.  Good luck, she is a good looking pup and reminds me of my Brigit.

SJ


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## SeanandBrice (Nov 16, 2011)

Scotsman said:


> SJ has it covered.....come, whoa, heel, easy.



OK, stupid question. What is "easy"?


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## Setter Jax (Nov 17, 2011)

A dog will go on point and the bird might be several feet or even yards away. You give the command whoa, and the dog is locked on point (shouldn't move) You go out in front of your dog for the flush, but nothing flushes.  Easy is a command to release your dog from point, but you don't want him or her to rush in at 1000 miles an hour.  Lol You give the command easy, and the dog will creep in and relocate the birds and go back on point.

Another example would be one of my Setters goes on point.  The other setter honors the point but is 10 or 15 yards back.  I can give the command easy to the setter that is honoring and the dog will creep in closer for the backing.


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