# 500 Christians Slaughter By Machete In Nigeria



## Lowjack (Feb 27, 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...venge-attacks-Christian-villages-Nigeria.html


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## hayseed_theology (Feb 27, 2011)

Heartbreaking.


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## FX Jenkins (Feb 28, 2011)

This event is actually about a year old...and interestingly enough, Nigerian police recently killed one of the local Muslim financiers...


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## atlashunter (Apr 6, 2011)

hayseed_theology said:


> Heartbreaking.



As is Nigerian Christians murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches.


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## gtparts (Apr 10, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> As is Nigerian Christians murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches.


"Murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches" is purely from Satan. Even Christians can be deceived, if they are not taught the Word. Such ignorance is indeed heartbreaking.

Meanwhile, the number of saints in heaven grows with each passing moment. Praise God that they have been saved for His glory and honor.


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## stringmusic (Apr 11, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> As is Nigerian Christians murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches.



As is my dog getting hit by a car. Nobody stated the fact that Nigerian Christians murdering their children was not heartbreaking.


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## thedeacon (Apr 11, 2011)

The whole matter is heartbreaking.


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## pbradley (Apr 11, 2011)

from this month's issue of the Church of God Evangel magazine, an article called 'Too Good for This World' by Bill George.

George quotes Antonio Socci's book, "The New Persecuted: Inquiries Into Anti-Christian Intolerance in the New Century of Martyrs."

"Reputable researchers agree that at least 70 million have died for the faith since the time of Christ. Remarkably, some 45 million, or two-thirds of all Christian martyrs, died in the 20th century."

and

"A conservative estimate of the number of Christians killed for their faith each year is somewhere around 150,000." Ron Csiliag in the Dec. 4, 2010 Toronto Star newspaper.

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight...bly-the-most-persecuted-religion-in-the-world



> Virtually every human rights group and Western government agency that monitors the plight of Christians worldwide arrives at more or less the same conclusion: Between 200 million and 230 million of them face daily threats of murder, beating, imprisonment and torture, and a further 350 to 400 million encounter discrimination in areas such as jobs and housing.
> 
> A conservative estimate of the number of Christians killed for their faith each year is somewhere around 150,000.


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## atlashunter (Apr 11, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> As is my dog getting hit by a car. Nobody stated the fact that Nigerian Christians murdering their children was not heartbreaking.



Nor was that claimed. 

Just pointing out that both victims and perpetrators of religious violence are not exclusive to any single religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yelwa_massacre

People kill and get killed because of their religious views and that includes Christians.


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## atlashunter (Apr 11, 2011)

gtparts said:


> "Murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches" is purely from Satan. Even Christians can be deceived, if they are not taught the Word. Such ignorance is indeed heartbreaking.



Funny, I thought it was purely from Exodus.

http://bible.cc/exodus/22-18.htm


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## TTom (Apr 12, 2011)

Read the article, noted it was over a year old, March 2010.

Also noted that it mentions earlier violence in the area for which this attack was supposedly revenge. Went back and looked for the earlier story and found that in January 2010, 2 months before, 200 Muslims were killed in attacks pretty much just like this round only 200 Muslims instead of 500 Christians.


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## gtparts (Apr 12, 2011)

gtparts said:


> "Murdering their own children out of the belief they are witches" is purely from Satan. Even Christians can be deceived, if they are not taught the Word. Such ignorance is indeed heartbreaking.
> 
> Meanwhile, the number of saints in heaven grows with each passing moment. Praise God that they have been saved for His glory and honor.





atlashunter said:


> Funny, I thought it was purely from Exodus.
> 
> http://bible.cc/exodus/22-18.htm



And you would be correct. 

There are problems, however, with pulling one passage (particularly from the OT) and relying on that to guide the actions of a Christian. A Christian that acts strictly on that basis does not have the mind of Christ. A Christian is to think and act under the New Covenant, which supersedes the Old Covenant.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 12, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Funny, I thought it was purely from Exodus.
> 
> http://bible.cc/exodus/22-18.htm




Now what is your comment suppost to mean exactly????

"Purely from Exodus".


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## TTom (Apr 12, 2011)

Ronnie T

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." 

The passage was used to justify the hanging of the Salem Witches, and more than a thousand women in Europe during the middle ages, and it is used today in places like Africa to justify killing. Jus as atlas mentioned.

SOME Christian groups have grown beyond taking the passage as literal. But there are many places in the world of Christendom where it is still a justification for execution.

GT you can say it's from Satan, if we assume that is true then Satan has guided the churchs people into thousands of murders for Christ through that passage. Complete with the Preachers whipping up the fever to burn them at the stake directly from the pulpit. History of this is plain, and even though many would and will deny it or at best say, that's old news.


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## gtparts (Apr 12, 2011)

TTom said:


> Ronnie T
> 
> "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
> 
> ...



You will not hear or read of me denying the plain truth, that Christians can and have been mislead, confused, and just plain ignorant in their personal conduct, acting outside of the will of God. 

I guess it bears repeating, though it should be obvious to all, but Christians are not perfect and too often they are guilty of thinking and behaving in ungodly ways.

However, it should be noted that regardless of their religious beliefs or claimed affiliation, such actions and thinking are not consistent with the teachings of Christ. While it is entirely appropriate to place the responsibility for such things on the one carrying out the action, blaming it on Christ is simply fallacious reasoning. 

It is important to understand to whom that instruction was given. Taking things out of context has lead to many misapplications.... and tragedies.


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## atlashunter (Apr 12, 2011)

GT that is your interpretation. Other Christians have and continue to take the bible including the OT quite literally.


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## gtparts (Apr 12, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> GT that is your interpretation. Other Christians have and continue to take the bible including the OT quite literally.



Are you suggesting that the entire Bible is literal? If so, you and those who hold that position need to study up on the various literary forms used throughout Scripture. I am reminded of visions and dreams that seemed rather symbolic(not literal), requiring spiritual insight and interpretation. There are dozens of examples of metaphors and the use of hyperbole all through the Bible. 

Besides, you don't believe the Bible any way. Why would you choose to take literally, something you don't believe in?

That is just strange!


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## atlashunter (Apr 12, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Besides, you don't believe the Bible any way. Why would you choose to take literally, something you don't believe in?
> 
> That is just strange!



Which is why I referred to how other Christians read the scripture about killing witches. I rarely, in fact I've never, heard a Christian say that the 10 commandments aren't to be taken literally or that they no longer apply because they are from the OT. And there are more than a few of your brethren out there who love to point out the biblical position on homosexuality. In fact Christians in Uganda would like to make it an offense punishable by death. And it wasn't that long ago that sodomy was illegal in many states right here in the US.

Maybe there is some context that you can point out that tells us when the bible said "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." it didn't really mean to kill them. And if you can that is fine, I won't argue the point with you. That is your take on the scripture. All I am saying is that there are other Christians who don't share your view and there was a time when your view would have been a minority view amongst Christians. We shouldn't lose sight of that and we shouldn't brush it off as having no biblical basis. When Christians kill someone because they think they are a witch they aren't doing it in complete contradiction of what scripture says under some satanic influence, they are doing it precisely because scripture instructs them to and they believe they are following the scripture.


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## gtparts (Apr 12, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Which is why I referred to how other Christians read the scripture about killing witches. I rarely, in fact I've never, heard a Christian say that the 10 commandments aren't to be taken literally or that they no longer apply because they are from the OT. And there are more than a few of your brethren out there who love to point out the biblical position on homosexuality. In fact Christians in Uganda would like to make it an offense punishable by death. And it wasn't that long ago that sodomy was illegal in many states right here in the US.
> 
> Maybe there is some context that you can point out that tells us when the bible said "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." it didn't really mean to kill them. And if you can that is fine, I won't argue the point with you. That is your take on the scripture. All I am saying is that there are other Christians who don't share your view and there was a time when your view would have been a minority view amongst Christians. We shouldn't lose sight of that and we shouldn't brush it off as having no biblical basis. When Christians kill someone because they think they are a witch they aren't doing it in complete contradiction of what scripture says under some satanic influence, they are doing it precisely because scripture instructs them to and they believe they are following the scripture.



You've stumbled on to one of the sad truths about some Christians. Many don't read Scripture regularly, don't study Scripture very much, if at all, and don't understand Scripture in its' full context. Most know nothing of hermeneutics or exegesis. They are usually referred to as "nominal Christians"..... Christian in name only.

A lot of half-baked ideas come out of this bunch of folks, and all Christians get lumped into the same pot, including those "witch killers" you mentioned.


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## atlashunter (Apr 12, 2011)

gtparts said:


> You've stumbled on to one of the sad truths about some Christians. Many don't read Scripture regularly, don't study Scripture very much, if at all, and don't understand Scripture in its' full context. Most know nothing of hermeneutics or exegesis. They are usually referred to as "nominal Christians"..... Christian in name only.
> 
> A lot of half-baked ideas come out of this bunch of folks, and all Christians get lumped into the same pot, including those "witch killers" you mentioned.



We aren't talking about just some small fringe groups like WBC. This was the understanding of scripture for the largest and oldest Christian organization in the world. And it wasn't exclusive only to catholics. To suggest that they didn't read or study scripture regularly or understand it in it's full context is really failing to own up to a stain on the history of Christianity that was and still is biblically motivated. The scripture in Exodus didn't change, people did, and I'm very glad for it. The same thing needs to happen in Islam. But let's not minimize what happened, what continues to happen to a much lesser degree than in the past, and the reasons why.


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## gtparts (Apr 13, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> We aren't talking about just some small fringe groups like WBC. This was the understanding of scripture for the largest and oldest Christian organization in the world. And it wasn't exclusive only to catholics. To suggest that they didn't read or study scripture regularly or understand it in it's full context is really failing to own up to a stain on the history of Christianity that was and still is biblically motivated. The scripture in Exodus didn't change, people did, and I'm very glad for it. The same thing needs to happen in Islam. But let's not minimize what happened, what continues to happen to a much lesser degree than in the past, and the reasons why.



For the record, I am not Catholic. I am sure there are things in their history of which today's Catholics are not proud. They also have a great deal to commend them. This isn't about Catholicism.

It is about holding people responsible for their own actions. It is simply wrong to assert that the Bible is at fault because some Christians disregard (or are ignorant of) the teachings and example of Christ, but wrongly follow an injunction specifically given to Israel, in their desert wanderings, for the purpose of keeping them pure and focused on God. It was intended for them, in the time it was given. Because of Christ, it is no longer valid, but has been superseded. 

I do not expect you to agree, but those are the facts of the issue. Angry, scared, and ignorant people take angry, scared, and ignorant action and you want to give them a pass? Right, blame it on God's Word.

The other matter not fully explored is the fact that many in third world countries that are "converted" actually blend their new religion with their old religion. It is not really clear whether the actions taken may have originated from the "old ways of dealing with witches".


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## atlashunter (Apr 13, 2011)

gtparts said:


> For the record, I am not Catholic. I am sure there are things in their history of which today's Catholics are not proud. They also have a great deal to commend them. This isn't about Catholicism.



I agree. It's about Christianity and the bible.




gtparts said:


> It is about holding people responsible for their own actions. It is simply wrong to assert that the Bible is at fault because some Christians disregard (or are ignorant of) the teachings and example of Christ, but wrongly follow an injunction specifically given to Israel, in their desert wanderings, for the purpose of keeping them pure and focused on God. It was intended for them, in the time it was given. Because of Christ, it is no longer valid, but has been superseded.
> 
> I do not expect you to agree, but those are the facts of the issue. Angry, scared, and ignorant people take angry, scared, and ignorant action and you want to give them a pass? Right, blame it on God's Word.



Yes hold people responsible for their own actions. But when those actions are motivated by scripture that scripture deserves scrutiny as well. The 9/11 hijackers and planners are personally responsible for their actions. I don't hold all muslims responsible for their actions any more than I would blame you for what some Nigerian Christians have done. But I'm also not willing to deny the role the scriptures played in their actions. Scripture is open to interpretation. Fortunately for all of us, you and most other Christians have found a theological way to disregard certain parts of your holy book that instruct people to commit murder. Not everyone is going to agree with your interpretation and therein lies the problem. It's the same in Islam. The fact of the matter is if these books didn't say some of the things they say we would have fewer people committing murder on what they believe is God's behalf.


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## gtparts (Apr 15, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I agree. It's about Christianity and the bible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You get credit for getting some of that right. However, I don't believe that  most Christians disregard parts of Scripture. On the contrary, we make an effort to understand all of Scripture in light of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Let's face it! Some information is included for historical context alone, such as references to kings of neighboring countries. The portion of the OT that are commonly called the "begats" is a genealogical listing that was of great importance to the people that followed. It indicated family groups and confirmed property rights. In the theological arena, it establishes the lineage of Jesus and identifies covenant people. There are true stories included to teach principles, yet the specific details may not be relevant to our lives in the 21st century. We may not make animal sacrifices today, but we do not disregard their significance to the people of that day or our need to repent and make restitution where necessary. 

I do not dismiss the role that Scripture may play, but clearly the problem rests with a poor grasp of what the Bible was intended to reveal. To take a verse or passage out of the context of the New Covenant, the gospel of Jesus Christ and use it to justify stoning ones own children as witches is a complete misuse of that verse or passage. There is just no way around it!

Do some folks just not get it? Obviously, so. But it is the result of ignorance on the part of those parents. Such actions can not be justified against the life and complete teachings of the Son of God.


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## atlashunter (Apr 15, 2011)

Well we've been over the issue of interpretation on the other thread so I won't rehash it here. But as hawgjawl has said before, a little consistency would be nice. Christians for centuries followed the commandment to kill witches when they had the political power to do so. Now it's "out of context". Yet other OT commandments that aren't as brutal are enshrined and others that foster hate like the verses concerning homosexuality aren't seen as only applying to a different people at a different time. I guess it's nice to pick and choose the morally decent biblical mandates from the evil ones. It's inconsistent and hypocritical IMO but at least it's better than following the scriptures to the letter.


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## gtparts (Apr 15, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Well we've been over the issue of interpretation on the other thread so I won't rehash it here. But as hawgjawl has said before, a little consistency would be nice. Christians for centuries followed the commandment to kill witches when they had the political power to do so. Now it's "out of context". Yet other OT commandments that aren't as brutal are enshrined and others that foster hate like the verses concerning homosexuality aren't seen as only applying to a different people at a different time. I guess it's nice to pick and choose the morally decent biblical mandates from the evil ones. It's inconsistent and hypocritical IMO but at least it's better than following the scriptures to the letter.



I have to ask this. Are you just too ignorant to grasp that some of the things mandated in the OT were not meant to have application beyond the theocratic nation of Israel, circa 4000 - 1 B.C.? Are you too ignorant to understand that laws are subject to change and that Jesus clarified many traditional misunderstandings about the Mosaic law and effectively voiced a superseding mandate for mercy and grace? When Christ said to "love your enemies", he was speaking of those involved in witchcraft, as well as people like yourself.

Have you failed to notice that Christians are not in the business of stoning writers of fortunes for fortune cookies? That those who produce, distribute, and use tarot cards, Ouija boards, and horoscopes; that read palms, tea leaves, and bumps on people's heads are in no real danger from any but the most confused, foolish, and deluded of so-called "Christians"? More likely, they are in danger from disgruntled customers they have bilked.

OR

Is there some other reason these facts don't seem to register with you?

Intelligent, reasoning minds want to know!


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## atlashunter (Apr 15, 2011)

gtparts said:


> I have to ask this. Are you just too ignorant to grasp that some of the things mandated in the OT were not meant to have application beyond the theocratic nation of Israel, circa 4000 - 1 B.C.? Are you too ignorant to understand that laws are subject to change and that Jesus clarified many traditional misunderstandings about the Mosaic law and effectively voiced a superseding mandate for mercy and grace? When Christ said to "love your enemies", he was speaking of those involved in witchcraft, as well as people like yourself.
> 
> Have you failed to notice that Christians are not in the business of stoning writers of fortunes for fortune cookies? That those who produce, distribute, and use tarot cards, Ouija boards, and horoscopes; that read palms, tea leaves, and bumps on people's heads are in no real danger from any but the most confused, foolish, and deluded of so-called "Christians"? More likely, they are in danger from disgruntled customers they have bilked.
> 
> ...



Now GT that's not very nice. Let me just say this and I'll be done with it. The scriptures are the same today as they were when Christians were burning people alive for witchcraft and as already pointed out it wasn't just some small fringe group that was doing it. They did it according to how they understood those scriptures. Now you're saying they got it wrong. That's cool. It is a bit curious to me that if a Christian's understanding of scripture is guided by the Holy Spirit why it took centuries for them to figure out they got it wrong. The scriptures are still the same. They haven't changed. What's changed are the people. Their interpretation of scriptures has evolved so that they can behave more like a civilized human being. That process continues even now despite the unchanging nature of the scriptures. If Christians of previous generations were ignorant as you put it, perhaps the day will come when future generations of Christians will consider some of the current mainstream doctrines ignorant. In the end, it's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it?

The floor is yours.


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## gtparts (Apr 15, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Now GT that's not very nice. Let me just say this and I'll be done with it. The scriptures are the same today as they were when Christians were burning people alive for witchcraft and as already pointed out it wasn't just some small fringe group that was doing it. They did it according to how they understood those scriptures. Now you're saying they got it wrong. That's cool. It is a bit curious to me that if a Christian's understanding of scripture is guided by the Holy Spirit why it took centuries for them to figure out they got it wrong. The scriptures are still the same. They haven't changed. What's changed are the people. Their interpretation of scriptures has evolved so that they can behave more like a civilized human being. That process continues even now despite the unchanging nature of the scriptures. If Christians of previous generations were ignorant as you put it, perhaps the day will come when future generations of Christians will consider some of the current mainstream doctrines ignorant. In the end, it's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it?
> 
> The floor is yours.



Well, I'll say this much for you. You are right about people changing. Changing lives is what Christianity is about. That some would claim Christ in one breath and deny Him with their actions with the next one is beyond me. How can anyone study and commit to following Christ while behaving in a manner that disavows Him. Obviously there is a problem with the supplicant. I would not begin to contend for them having any sense of the Holy Spirit. It comes down to this. Some people have not been changed by whatever association with Christ they may claim. It is evident then, they are deceived and lost, still acting on the part of their true "father", Satan. 

Finally, for my part, I still care about the lost and am committed to fulfilling the calling on my life. I am confidant that God is faithful and will resolve any misconceptions or doubts, whether yours or mine. But, for the record, anyone that rejects the existence of God and the authority of His Word has no credibility in judging the truth of Scripture or in giving interpretation as to what is means. You can fault the individuals who take the name of Christian, but understand, any criticism is theirs to bear, as any criticism of me is mine to bear. God has got "it right", even if nobody else has.


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