# Female and gay preachers



## Free Willie (Feb 3, 2009)

Anybody here watch the service at the National Cathedral the day after Obama was sworn in? I was amazed at all of the female preachers and the one gay preacher. The first reading was done by a woman, Dr. Cynthia Hale,  she is the senior pastor at Ray of Hope Christian Church. Then Dr. Sharon Watkins gave the Homily. She is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Desciples of Christ). Then we had Eugene Robinson who is an openly gay bishop in the Episcapal church. The closing prayer was delivered by the Most Reverend Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop and Primate of The Episcopal Church. The Reposorial prayer was given by Rev. Carol Wade of the National Cathedral. The closing prayer was given by Bishop Katherine Jefferts-Schori, Presiding Bishop, Episcopal Church USA. 

OK...here is my deal: What about 1 Corinthians 13: 34-37? What about 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11? Or 1 Timothy 1:9-10?

I just do not understand how someone can read the Bible and then reconcile that it is ok for Homosexuals to be bishops and women to be preachers.

What say you?


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

WOW... Not beating around the bush today are we...

Can't in any way justify the homosexual bishops and etc...

Women in the Ministry... I don't have as big an issue here as some because I believe that God will call the best qualified to do the job. In some cases because of the lack of Godly men that may be Women. And even in some cases they are chosen. Christ appeared first to women after the Resurrection and sent them to tell the others.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

Dominic said:


> From Fr. Z


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## rjcruiser (Feb 3, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Anybody here watch the service at the National Cathedral the day after Obama was sworn in? I was amazed at all of the female preachers and the one gay preacher. The first reading was done by a woman, Dr. Cynthia Hale,  she is the senior pastor at Ray of Hope Christian Church. Then Dr. Sharon Watkins gave the Homily. She is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Desciples of Christ). Then we had Eugene Robinson who is an openly gay bishop in the Episcapal church. The closing prayer was delivered by the Most Reverend Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop and Primate of The Episcopal Church. The Reposorial prayer was given by Rev. Carol Wade of the National Cathedral. The closing prayer was given by Bishop Katherine Jefferts-Schori, Presiding Bishop, Episcopal Church USA.
> 
> OK...here is my deal: What about 1 Corinthians 13: 34-37? What about 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11? Or 1 Timothy 1:9-10?
> 
> ...



FreeWillie,
We don't agree on much, but on this...I'm 100% in agreement with you.  Actually, I drive by Ray of Hope Church on my way to the post office when I'm at work.  You should check out their website and it might give you an idea as to how they can skip over parts of the Bible.



celticfisherman said:


> Women in the Ministry... I don't have as big an issue here as some because I believe that God will call the best qualified to do the job. In some cases because of the lack of Godly men that may be Women. And even in some cases they are chosen. Christ appeared first to women after the Resurrection and sent them to tell the others.



I just can't agree with this.  You need to study your OT more.  Remember what Samuel told Saul when the Israelites had conquered the Amalekites?

TO OBEY IS BETTER THAN SACRIFICE.

How often do we justify our actions when we sin against our Holy God.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 3, 2009)

The female pastors thing has been debated to death around here.  I am not of the opinion that there is a justification for restricting male or female....

I'm actually kind of shocked that everybody would put "female" and "gay" in the same context.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> The female pastors thing has been debated to death around here.  I am not of the opinion that there is a justification for restricting male or female....
> 
> I'm actually kind of shocked that everybody would put "female" and "gay" in the same context.



I agree.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 3, 2009)

Christ's church is filled with many very wise and godly women.  They are at times able to teach certain subjects in ways that men only wish they could.  They are devout and powerful in the church. But, alas, they should not seek to be preacher or elders.  Not because I don't respect women, but because God's word leads us away from that possibility.

Practicing homosexuals being given leadership in the church is proof that many churches and denominations have invented their own religion.


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## Randy (Feb 3, 2009)

At the risk of sounding like both a male chovinist and a homophob, and as much as I like to hear Joyce Myer talk, I agree with Willie on this!

Joyce does claim to do it under the authority of her husband but I am not sure how far that goes.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
 12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

 14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.


Seems like all in context to me RJ.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Christ's church is filled with many very wise and godly women.  They are at times able to teach certain subjects in ways that men only wish they could.  They are devout and powerful in the church. But, alas, they should not seek to be preacher or elders.  Not because I don't respect women, but because God's word leads us away from that possibility.
> 
> Practicing homosexuals being given leadership in the church is proof that many churches and denominations have invented their own religion.



You could say the same about churches who allow men and women living together without being married to be in positions of leadership too. 

We agree yet again Ronnie!!!


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## 5HwnBoys (Feb 3, 2009)

*The WORD*

It seems to me that someone preaching the WORD should actually be setting an example by abiding by its laws. Not just taking certain phrases out of context and calling it good. It's either/or and no in-between. At least that's what I believe. I never saw anyone who was just half pregnant.  She was or wasn't cut and dry.

Of course it's just my belief.

And just because you can do it don't make it right!!!!!


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## Banjo (Feb 3, 2009)

I am a woman....a woman who loves to read and discuss Theology, yet I have no trouble whatsoever with never being behind a pulpit, or ordained in a leadership role.

The scriptures forbid it, and that is enough for me.  

If women are to be subject to their own husbands in the home...do you think they can usurp his authority in a public role?  That would be like God saying...I know your husband is the head of your home, but since you have been ordained, you are his authority in the ecclesiastical realm....


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## Huntinfool (Feb 3, 2009)

OR...you're ok with it because you've not been called to it.


What am I doing???  I don't want to get this discussion started again!


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## Ronnie T (Feb 3, 2009)

Randy said:


> At the risk of sounding like both a male chovinist and a homophob, and as much as I like to hear Joyce Myer talk, I agree with Willie on this!
> 
> Joyce does claim to do it under the authority of her husband but I am not sure how far that goes.



As a Christian motivational speaker for Christian women and couples, Joyce is a great teacher.  But she doesn't have to be a pastor to do that.


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## Randy (Feb 3, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> You could say the same about churches who allow men and women living together without being married to be in positions of leadership too.
> 
> We agree yet again Ronnie!!!


And I would.


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

Randy said:


> And I would.



You and me both Bubba!!! 

To bad you got to be at Macon this weekend. If we don't run rabbits I got a new squirrel dog that is going to hit the woods...


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## Free Willie (Feb 3, 2009)

Randy said:


> At the risk of sounding like both a male chovinist and a homophob, and as much as I like to hear Joyce Myer talk, I agree with Willie on this!
> 
> Joyce does claim to do it under the authority of her husband but I am not sure how far that goes.



Have you seen the size of that woman?!?!?!? Who do YOU think has the authoratative role in her marriage? I'd bet if she got into a ring with Evander Holyfield, she could go a few rounds. Plus, she makes a LOT of money with her preaching. Of course she will say she is under her husband's authority. He reaps the benefits. Scripture doesn't say they should not tell people about their faith, but it DOES say to keep SILENT in the church and Joyce is not doing that.


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## Banjo (Feb 3, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> OR...you're ok with it because you've not been called to it.
> 
> 
> What am I doing???  I don't want to get this discussion started again!




Huntin...I am experiencing deja vu....

Let me clarify....I do not believe God calls women to be ordained in the church... A woman's highest God-given calling is to be a wife and mother.  THAT is her mission field.  

I love what R.L. Dabney...a fine Southern Presbyterian....wrote about Christian women after the devastation of the South in the War of Northern Aggression:

"...never before was the welfare of a people so dependent on their mothers, wives and sisters, as now and here.  I freely declare that under God my chief hope for my prostrate country is in their women.  Early in the war, when the stream of our noblest blood began to flow so liberally in battle, I said to an honored citizen of my State, that it was so uniformly our best men who were made the sacrifice there was reason to fear that the staple and pith of the people of the South would be permanently depreciated.  His reply was:  "There is no danger of this while the women of the South are what they are.  Be assured the mothers will not permit the offspring of such martyr-sires to depreciate."

But since, this river of generous blood has swelled into a flood.  What is worse, the remnant of the survivors, few, subjugated, disheartened, almost despairing and, alas, dishonored, because they have not disdained life, on such terms as are left us; are subjected to every influence from without, which can be malignantly devised to sap the foundations of their manhood and degrade them into fit material for slaves.  If our women do not sustain them they will sink.  Unless the spirits which rule and cheer their homes can reanimate their self-respect, confirm their resolve, and sustain their personal honor, they will at length become the base serfs their enemies desire.  Outside their homes, everything conspires to depress, to tempt, to seduce them.  Only within their homes is there, beneath the skies, one ray of light or warmth to prevent their freezing into despair.

There in your homes, is your domain.  There YOU rule with the scepter of affection, and not our conquerors.  We beseech you, wield that gentle empire in behalf of the principles, the patriotism, the religion, which we inherited from our mothers.  Teach our ruder sex that only by a deathless love to these can woman's dear love be deserved or won.  Him who is true to these crown with your favor.  Let the wretch who betrays them be exiled forever from the paradise of your arms.  Then shall we be saved, saved from a degradation fouler than the grave.  Be it yours to nurse with more than a vestal's watchfulness, the sacred flame of our virtue now so smothered.  Your task is unobtrusive, it is performed in the privacy of home, and by the gentle touches of daily love.  But it is the noblest work which mortal can perform, for it furnishes the polished stones, with which the temple of our liberties must be repaired.  Such is your work; the home and fireside are the scenes of your industry.  But the materials you shape are the souls of men, which are to compose the fabric of our church and state.  The politician, the professional man, is but the cheap, rude, day laborer, who moves and lifts the finished block to its place.  You are the true artists, who endue it with fitness and beauty; and therefore yours is the nobler task...

Discussions, Vol. IV, pp. 120-122

I have heard it said that "She who rocks the cradle rules the world."  There is much truth in that.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 3, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> 9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
> 12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
> 
> 14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
> ...




You are right...the message is in sharing the gospel.  Men and women and children are called to share their faith with others.  

Be in leadership of the church, pastors, elders, bishops, popes required to be men.  Women are also told not to teach men, but other women.



You know...in bringing up the OT story of Saul and the Amalekites, I was really hoping to show DixieDawg that not all Baptists are ignorant of the OT.  I'm trying hard at building bridges around here


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## Huntinfool (Feb 3, 2009)

I know Banjo....I was just seein' if I could get you riled up.  I agree that wife and mother are extremely important for a woman.

Where we disagree is that I don't believe those callings are any different than husband and father and yet men are able to do "be" those and still pastor.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 3, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> I know Banjo....I was just seein' if I could get you riled up.  I agree that wife and mother are extremely important for a woman.
> 
> Where we disagree is that I don't believe those callings are any different than husband and father and yet men are able to do "be" those and still pastor.



Amazing how simple it is when you believe 100% of what the Bible says.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 3, 2009)

When did I ever say I only believed 99%?  It never has been a question of whether it's true...just a question of whether you read it like a robot or not.


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## Randy (Feb 3, 2009)

celticfisherman said:


> You and me both Bubba!!!
> 
> To bad you got to be at Macon this weekend. If we don't run rabbits I got a new squirrel dog that is going to hit the woods...



I am not going.  But I think I am going fishing!!!


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

Randy said:


> I am not going.  But I think I am going fishing!!!



You need to be chasing bunnies... We only got till the 28th...


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## jason4445 (Feb 3, 2009)

Oh, Yes - the bondage Scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, man how the "don't read the Bible just read the verse" conservatives love this one.

And it is no less paradoxical that the Conservative Christians change the word "speak" to mean preach.  In even the most Conservative Bible hammering, verse slinging church I have been in women speak - they also pray out loud, sing, talk to each other - so it is overlooked that women speak (although the verse says not to) but indeed because of this verse they cannot preach or be a member of any organizational body that runs the church.

In this book, Corinthians, as well as other books where these bondage concepts are formed, Paul often reiterates what others have written him in his attempt to unify the church - he is not preaching it is acceptable. 

In other words, 1Corinthians 14:34-35 never originated with Paul. It originated with the Corinthians. Paul only reiterates what the Corinthians said as a rebuke to the Corinthian church in the letter we now read (believe) as Scripture. The Corinthians originally wrote about how women cannot speak in their church to Paul, and Paul told them how absurd it was for them to say that the law commands women to be silent in the church ─ The women are the church says Paul. Paul said that what the Corinthians were teaching were not  commandments from the Lord.  

This is shown in 1 Corinthians 11:4 notice that Paul jumps right in about the "head covering" and says, "Every man (this means male in the Greek) praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonors his head." But then in verse 5 he says, "But every woman (female)  that prays or prophesies (preaches) with her head uncovered dishonors her head..." notice that the women are praying and prophesying (preaching).  The whole section of 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 is to establish that women (in their culture) when they pray or prophesy (preach) in church need to have their heads covered, not that they can't pray or preach at all. And all this head convering business, although it is scripture, is igored in today's church.

To show that Paul means all members of the church can speak (of course in Conservative Christianity that means preach) Paul in this book talks about spiritual gifts.  Notice that "the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, speaking in tongues and the interpretation" all require speaking in the church, and the speaking is done by both men and women.

So it is the Corinthians that are saying women cannot speak (preach) in the church not Paul, and most certainly not God.


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Feb 3, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Anybody here watch the service at the National Cathedral the day after Obama was sworn in? I was amazed at all of the female preachers and the one gay preacher. The first reading was done by a woman, Dr. Cynthia Hale,  she is the senior pastor at Ray of Hope Christian Church. Then Dr. Sharon Watkins gave the Homily. She is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Desciples of Christ). Then we had Eugene Robinson who is an openly gay bishop in the Episcapal church. The closing prayer was delivered by the Most Reverend Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop and Primate of The Episcopal Church. The Reposorial prayer was given by Rev. Carol Wade of the National Cathedral. The closing prayer was given by Bishop Katherine Jefferts-Schori, Presiding Bishop, Episcopal Church USA.
> 
> OK...here is my deal: What about 1 Corinthians 13: 34-37? What about 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11? Or 1 Timothy 1:9-10?
> 
> ...



They're both creations of God.......


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## Branchminnow (Feb 3, 2009)

I ve got a banny rooster out back.....he is more of a preacher than either a homosexual or a woman. 

I like to hear him early in the morning.


scripture wont back up a woman or a wanna be woman....or man.


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## PWalls (Feb 3, 2009)

Yep, that whole "Husband of one wife" comment sure is misleading and hard to interpret. Just like those "masculine" pronouns "he" and "him" and "his".

I can easily see where a woman would logically fit those roles.


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## pigpen1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Free Willie said:


> Have you seen the size of that woman?!?!?!? Who do YOU think has the authoratative role in her marriage? I'd bet if she got into a ring with Evander Holyfield, she could go a few rounds. Plus, she makes a LOT of money with her preaching. Of course she will say she is under her husband's authority. He reaps the benefits. Scripture doesn't say they should not tell people about their faith, but it DOES say to keep SILENT in the church and Joyce is not doing that.



 I think I am having a heart attack, This is the first time since I have been on this forum that I can agree with Free Willie....

 I have a question though, would it be appropriate for the woman preachers to wear pants and the gay preacher to wear a dress in church???????


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## celticfisherman (Feb 3, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> I think I am having a heart attack, This is the first time since I have been on this forum that I can agree with Free Willie....
> 
> I have a question though, would it be appropriate for the woman preachers to wear pants and the gay preacher to wear a dress in church???????





Oh no you didn't!!!!


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## Lead Poison (Feb 3, 2009)

NO homosexual preachers...period!

Also, I believe men should be the leaders of churches.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 3, 2009)

jason4445 said:


> Oh, Yes - the bondage Scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, man how the "don't read the Bible just read the verse" conservatives love this one.
> 
> And it is no less paradoxical that the Conservative Christians change the word "speak" to mean preach.  In even the most Conservative Bible hammering, verse slinging church I have been in women speak - they also pray out loud, sing, talk to each other - so it is overlooked that women speak (although the verse says not to) but indeed because of this verse they cannot preach or be a member of any organizational body that runs the church.
> 
> ...





I just went back and reread the scripture you referenced above.  I disagree with your statement that it was the Corinthian church that was wrong and Paul was simply trying to correct their error.  Paul says nothing to make me believe that.

I do agree with you that Paul speaks of women praying and teaching.  I wish more women would be willing to teach.


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## jason4445 (Feb 4, 2009)

The whole book of Corinthians is Paul's letter to them telling them where he believes they need to change their ideas and belief's to unify Christianity.  It is the theme of the whole book.  If you do not recognize that theme as you read, then the whole book is just babble.

Teaching - preaching - is there a difference?  Everyone called Jesus Rabbi which in Hebrew means Teacher.


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## pigpen1 (Feb 4, 2009)

Branchminnow said:


> I ve got a banny rooster out back.....he is more of a preacher than either a homosexual or a woman.
> 
> I like to hear him early in the morning.
> 
> ...



 How do you know that your rooster is not gay???????


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## Ronnie T (Feb 4, 2009)

jason4445 said:


> The whole book of Corinthians is Paul's letter to them telling them where he believes they need to change their ideas and belief's to unify Christianity.  It is the theme of the whole book.  If you do not recognize that theme as you read, then the whole book is just babble.
> 
> *I agree.  That's why he told them that women should keep silent in church and that they should not be speaking in tongue during church.
> They had been doing it, he didn't think they should.*
> ...



*Yes, there's a difference.*


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## Branchminnow (Feb 4, 2009)

pigpen1 said:


> How do you know that your rooster is not gay???????



I got little hacthlings to prove it.......and the way that little fella crows.............aint no softness nor back down in that boy's crow!


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## jawja_peach (Feb 4, 2009)

*Another Novel as hubby says! Sorry.*

I'm a woman, (duh right) and although I'm a Pastor/Preacher wife, teacher, woman's speaker I still follow what the Bible says about women and their role in the church. 

1 Tim 2:12-15

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
KJV

Now it *does* say, that the younger women are to learn from the older women. (not in the above scripture..) So, to me, if I go to a Ladies Day or something out side church, pastor/preacher, it doesn't matter as far as that goes, as I'm not listening to preacher/pastor, I'm listening to another woman I can learn from. If I was asked if I considered them a preacher/pastor, I would have to say that because of my belief, No, I don't, but that is between them and God. Now for a woman to preach a sermon/service I *will not *attend. I Love to go to ladies retreats and listen to the different women, who are not and will tell you they are not preachers. 

Many people say, well there is no difference in preaching/teaching. There is a *BI*G difference. Preaching and Teaching are different, well, in my church and sister churches they're different. (Ind. Bible Believing Baptist) What other women do, I can not help. All I can do is stick to my beliefs and try to teach others what the Bible says. I can not tell a woman she's not a preacher, that's between her and God. Now I know some denoms don't agree with me on that and they can pull scripture out of context and say, 'this is what it means'...I don't have to pull scripture out of context as it's plain in Black and white. 

*There is a huge place in Gods church for women*. If it weren't for women I know the church would not be near where it is now. I remember the time when 90% of the congregation was women. Men would not attend church. And the women were the ones that have paid the bills and kept the local assemblies going. Women, although the Men are the head of the Church/home, are the neck. And the Head can not turn, nor fully function without the neck. I thank God for the older women that hit the altar's praying, calling out names to God, for their family and others that are lost and going to He11. If you want a good Pastor, don't only look at him, and his qualifications or his reputations, also look at his wife. If she's with him when he's called to preach somewhere. If she stands by him through all of life's changes. And mostly that she is submissive and although she may have not agreed with her husband 100%, she stood beside him in his decision, knowing that God has made Him head of the house/marriage because she is the weaker vessel. And by being weaker, I mean that at times we don't see things what our husband sees as God may have revealed something to him that we don't know. Also note that in my marriage, which is absolutely as close to perfect that one can get (in my eyes), my hubby doesn't 'pull rank' over me as God has made me the weaker vessel. He always asks me how I feel about things, and I give him my prayerful thoughts on the subject. He always takes what I say into consideration. We walk together hand in hand, and beside each other. Not one ahead or behind the other.

Again, my beliefs, my opinion..do have Bible to back it up, which is left in context. Don't mean to offend and pray I haven't. Have an awesome Wed. Don't forget about church/bible study tonight!!


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## jawja_peach (Feb 4, 2009)

*hu?*

Teaching - preaching - is there a difference?  Everyone called Jesus Rabbi which in Hebrew means Teacher.[/QUOTE]


Um, we are *not* Jesus. There were a lot of things He was called that we are not. That was a question with out thought, I hope. *There is a difference friend.*


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

Teaching vs. Preaching?  Actually there is not much difference IMO.

I think you guys are mistaking "Preacher" for "Pastor".  There is a big difference in the two.  Preaching is simply teaching the Bible.  Neither men nor women are forbidden to do that.  

"Pastor" is an entirely different animal.


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## Banjo (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Teaching vs. Preaching?  Actually there is not much difference IMO.
> 
> I think you guys are mistaking "Preacher" for "Pastor".  There is a big difference in the two.  Preaching is simply teaching the Bible.  Neither men nor women are forbidden to do that.
> 
> "Pastor" is an entirely different animal.



Preaching is proclaiming the gospel.  It is different than teaching or a lecture....although one should learn from a sermon.

In many churches today, these "talks" pass for sermons...I call them sermonettes.  We have removed the pulpits from many churches and opted for a "coffee shop" feel.  After all, we don't want to make any one think they are being spoken down to...or at, and we certainly don't want to offend...

Can you see Moses or Elijah giving a "talk?"


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

So women are not allowed to proclaim the gospel?


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## Banjo (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> So women are not allowed to proclaim the gospel?



They are commanded to do so....but not from behind the pulpit in a leadership position.  Not as a teaching elder or ruling elder.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

So preaching is preaching whether it's from behind a pulpit or not?  So then, it's ok for a woman to be a preacher....right?

Just not a teaching preacher?  This is all getting very confusing!

So we've established that it's ok for women to preach...just not from a pulpit.  So remind me again where it says women can't teach or preach from a pulpit?  I was under the impression that a pulpit was a fairly recent phenomenon.

Like I've said before, I do think that men are more often called to this position.  But, I cannot interpret these verses the same way you guys do.  It's not as clear as you make it out to be.  In the end, it's not a deal breaker.


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## Randy (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> So preaching is preaching whether it's from behind a pulpit or not?  So then, it's ok for a woman to be a preacher....right?
> 
> Just not a teaching preacher?  This is all getting very confusing!
> 
> ...



It is never ok for a woman to preach to or teach men.  They are allow to teach women.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeh....that's been posted.  I'm not buyin' yet though.  It's been discussed to death.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Teaching vs. Preaching?  Actually there is not much difference IMO.
> 
> I think you guys are mistaking "Preacher" for "Pastor".  There is a big difference in the two.  Preaching is simply teaching the Bible.  Neither men nor women are forbidden to do that.
> 
> "Pastor" is an entirely different animal.



Banjo,
You must remember....Huntin goes to one of those new fangled seeker sensitive churches with guitars and drums up on the stage.  At his church teaching and preaching are the same thing.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 4, 2009)

jawja_peach said:


> I'm a woman, (duh right) and although I'm a Pastor/Preacher wife, teacher, woman's speaker I still follow what the Bible says about women and their role in the church.
> 
> 1 Tim 2:12-15
> 
> ...




Amen.  Thank God for women in the church.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Banjo,
> You must remember....Huntin goes to one of those new fangled seeker sensitive churches with guitars and drums up on the stage.  At his church teaching and preaching are the same thing.



Ouch!  I'm hurt RJ....I'm really hurt.

You're officially not allowed to play paintball at my church anymore.


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## rjcruiser (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Ouch!  I'm hurt RJ....I'm really hurt.
> 
> You're officially not allowed to play paintball at my church anymore.



You know...I wonder if paintball is considered a seeker friendly activity.

Sign me up...


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## jawja_peach (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> So women are not allowed to proclaim the gospel?




I don't know if this has been said or not and if it has I'm sorry for being outta the loop, had to go get my boys..but..women are suppose to proclaim the gospel. But there are other places she can. Have you read 1st.Tim. where it gives you the qualifications for a Preacher/Pastor/Bishop????? HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE....a woman can't be a HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, unless we start a new thread up about Lesbians and saying that the 'male' partner could preach....I'm sorry but somethings get so outta control on here I wouldn't doubt that someone would start a thread as such. 

1 Tim 3:2

2 A bishop then must be *blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;*KJV


A Preacher can teach. He should be able to teach as that is also a qualification to be a Preacher/Bishop/Pastor. What is a Pastor??? _*A PREACHER VOTED IN TO PREACH THE GOSPEL*_, among other things... A Preacher is as high in the latter so to speak as one can get. Therefor should be apt to teach. BUT, and a big one there, a Teacher is to teach. Now I have been in some churches where there was no difference in the preacher and the Sunday school teacher. And, well, I can just say in our church, and sister churches, you can tell the difference. Our teachers, teach, and do a great job. And our Pastor he PREACHES. My husband PREACHES.... Hellfire/Brimstone as the saying goes. But for some, I can really see where they can't tell the difference. Mona-tone, (sp?) No change in voice, put you to sleep, and you wake up with an amen and may have amened yourself to ****ation.


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

Again, this has been discussed to death.  But....

Let's look at 1 Tim 3.

Verse 1 - Whoever aspires to be an overseerer (non-gender specific).  Yes, it continues on in the masculine.  One could conclude that Paul was not in the habit of writing "he/she, or 'he or she'" and, instead, chose to use the masculine as it was the most normal case in the day.  But we don't know.

Verse 8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect, not indulging in much wine, etc., etc.....(no gender mentioned)

Verse 11 - In the same way (i.e. if women are to be considered for these positions...or deacons wives....we do not know), the women are to be worthy of respect, etc. etc.

There is also evidence that the church Paul was writing to had particular issues with some of the women in the congregation and so he was specifically encouraging them to put men in positions of authority in order to quell some of those issues.

Earlier in the book Paul says "I" do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority.  Why not just say God doesn't permit it if that's the case.  Could Paul be interjecting personal preference into the letter?  

My point is that you can read and try to figure out what the intent was or you can read as a robot would....literal and with no context or interpretation. 

I've said this before.  I don't know for sure whether women preachers are ok.  But I can say with certainty that it is NOT as clearly stated as many would try to tell you it is.

Now I've opened this all up again.  My apologies.  I'll stop now.  It's a discussion that will never be ended with certainty.


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## Banjo (Feb 4, 2009)

Huntinfool said:


> Ouch!  I'm hurt RJ....I'm really hurt.
> 
> You're officially not allowed to play paintball at my church anymore.



RJ....You played paintball with the Seekers...

I am shocked... 


Mario Karts with the Presbyterians and paintball with the Seekers....

You are quite ecumenical in your activities...  

I hope all is still on for tonight.  The girls and I have been practicing this week.  Tell your sweet wife that it is "ON!"


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## Huntinfool (Feb 4, 2009)

I gotta get a Wii!!!!!!!


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## rjcruiser (Feb 4, 2009)

Banjo said:


> RJ....You played paintball with the Seekers...
> 
> I am shocked...
> 
> ...



I'm sure my wife will be there...I'm not sure if I'll make it tonight...my radiator blew this morning...however, I might have to take an hour long break.

Anyone want to help me put a new one in tonight on a '94 toyota pickup?


When it comes to paintball and mariokart...I'll no matter what your denomination is.


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## Banjo (Feb 4, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> I'm sure my wife will be there...I'm not sure if I'll make it tonight...my radiator blew this morning...however, I might have to take an hour long break.
> 
> Anyone want to help me put a new one in tonight on a '94 toyota pickup?
> 
> ...






Take the hour off and vent your frustration on Mariokarts...

I give you my permission (as if you need it) to push me in to lava, shoot me with turtles, run over me...or whatever other torture in which you and your wife seem to excel.


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## gtparts (Feb 4, 2009)

Banjo said:


> Take the hour off and vent your frustration on Mariokarts...
> 
> I give you my permission (as if you need it) to push me in to lava, shoot me with turtles, run over me...or whatever other torture in which you and your wife seem to excel.



Aaaaaaahh? Reform Masochist?


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## celticfisherman (Feb 4, 2009)

gtparts said:


> Aaaaaaahh? Reform Masochist?



That's what I was thinking... Kind of scared of Banjo now...


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## gtparts (Feb 4, 2009)

Sounds like a new twist on, "Beat me. Beat me. Make me write bad checks."

Wish I knew where she lived so I could avoid the neighborhood.

Way too tough for me.... Wimp is my middle name.


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## gtparts (Feb 4, 2009)

Talked me out of wanting a Wii or playing Mariokarts. Guess I'll just sprint furiously over to the thread on puppies and kittens and hide...I mean..check it out.


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