# Do predestiny believers get Colonoscopies?



## Artfuldodger (Mar 2, 2012)

If your days are numbered then it would seem pointless. If there is no way to add days to your time on earth, why eat healthy or exercise? Why teach your kids gun safety?


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## gordon 2 (Mar 2, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> If your days are numbered then it would seem pointless. If there is no way to add days to your time on earth, why eat healthy or exercise? Why teach your kids gun safety?



Ya, but when they numbered the days cheeze burgers were not on the menu.


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## JB0704 (Mar 2, 2012)

Very funny point.  If I believed in predestiny, I would be upset that such a thing was written into the script.  And that would be okay too, because it would be God making me be mad about him making me get a colonoscopy.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 3, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Very funny point.  If I believed in predestiny, I would be upset that such a thing was written into the script.  And that would be okay too, because it would be God making me be mad about him making me get a colonoscopy.



So either way you look at it, there's no way out of it!


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## fish hawk (Mar 3, 2012)

Everyone's days are numbered,believer and unbeliever alike,because we all got a date with death.....Psalm 90:12 So teach us to number our days,That we may gain a heart of wisdom......God wants us to use our time on earth wisely.Not taking care of yourself is not wise!!!Go see the Doc.Ive also come to the assumption that arguing with a bunch of atheist is pointless and not very wise at all!!!Yall have at it and rock on


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## centerpin fan (Mar 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> If your days are numbered then it would seem pointless. If there is no way to add days to your time on earth, why eat healthy or exercise? Why teach your kids gun safety?



Several years ago, I read some biographies of Confederate generals.  Stonewall Jackson was one.  Many of those guys were staunch Presbyterians who absolutely believed this.  That's why they could be amazingly calm in the midst of a heated battle.


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## JB0704 (Mar 3, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Many of those guys were staunch Presbyterians who absolutely believed this.  That's why they could be amazingly calm in the midst of a heated battle.



That is fascinating, and it makes a lot of sense when I think about it. 

Still doesn't change the fact that I would be pretty upset about the colonoscopy, and feel justified because my emotions would be just what God wanted.

Heck, a predestination worldview pretty much excuses anything we do, because we can't really do anything "outside the script."  We could exchange "the devil made me do it" for "God made me do it."


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## WELLS8230 (Mar 3, 2012)

ultimately it will still be your decision


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## gordon 2 (Mar 3, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Several years ago, I read some biographies of Confederate generals.  Stonewall Jackson was one.  Many of those guys were staunch Presbyterians who absolutely believed this.  That's why they could be amazingly calm in the midst of a heated battle.



Yah, and he got shot by his own men and died from pneumonia caused by said wound!

Local guy ( young man) here has been fighting lymphoma for three yrs died in a car crash last week!

Oh, and when they numbered the days life expectancy was a lot shorter and  the earth spun faster...so numbers are deceiving. When people lived 400yrs for example a day was six hours. Florida wagged like a turtle tail.

There are MRI colonoscopies now, but I bet you pay an arm and two legs for those.


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## Asath (Mar 4, 2012)

And here it turns out that March is Colorectal Cancer Awareness Month!  

Did the CDC put you up to this Dodger?

I, for one, will take the Awareness Month seriously, and plan to wear a brown ribbon and pay studious attention to my nether region.  (BTW, a colonoscopy isn’t as gruesome as the barroom talk makes it out – as any of us old guys can tell you.  It’s a lot weirder than, say, having to turn your head and cough, but the docs make a compelling case – not knowing kills more folks than AIDS does, by far.)

I would suspect that this fact alone – that problems of this sort can be found early, and corrected before they kill you – would endorse the progress of science and toss any ‘predestination’ argument into the gutter.

Trying to stretch the point – that the God of the Bible, who at that point presided over an average life-span for his precious humans of less than 40 years, somehow knew that we’d be able to cure most of the diseases that He also Created for no better reason than to kill us, and had it all PREORDAINED into a two-thousand-odd year PLAN that involved killing, crippling, maiming, and causing His Creations to suffer until THEY, by themselves, discovered stuff like penicillin, vaccines, and heart surgery -- is going to be a tough row to hoe.

That’s one hard claim to back up with a ‘predestination’ argument.  I wish you gentlemen the best of luck, if you really want to try that one in this forum.  

(And no – the Earth never spun much faster, and a ‘day’ was never six hours – the overall mass and orbital and angular momentum of the planet hasn’t changed in any really significant way since it formed.  That is just silly to contend and completely unsupported—if the planet was spinning four times faster at any time it would have been unable to support an atmosphere, let alone liquids, which would have made the four-hundred year old man quite thirsty, as well as terribly dizzy and unable to breathe.  The rotational speed of the planet IS gradually slowing, on the order of several seconds every few hundred thousand years, and the molten, nuclear core of the planet IS gradually using up the available fuel to keep it burning, so in a few million years it will lack a magnetosphere sufficient to keep the atmosphere from simply eroding away into space – but I trust that SOMEWHERE in the Bible, this is also explained . . .   )


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## Six million dollar ham (Mar 4, 2012)

gordon 2 said:


> Oh, and when they numbered the days life expectancy was a lot shorter and  the earth spun faster...so numbers are deceiving. When people lived 400yrs for example a day was six hours.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 9, 2012)

I, too, believe our days are numbered.  I also believe that God can and will lead us to the pathway of our healing.

I guess you could say I see it like this:

Say I'm gonna die at 70 yrs old, I'd rather have a happy and healthy life rather than suffer with colon cancer for my last 10 yrs or 3 yrs or whatever. I'd rather be able to function, walk, talk, comprehend all the days of my life, rather than to be sick and unhealthy because I didn't wanna get a colonostopy (or any test). I can live healthy until I'm 70 or I can live in misery and pain until I'm 70.


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## bullethead (Mar 9, 2012)

Cancer. Is that God's self destruct button?


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## mtnwoman (Mar 9, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Cancer. Is that God's self destruct button?



My dad died from lung cancer from smoking. I'm pretty sure that wasn't God's fault. Even though I believe my dad died when his number was up. I just wished he hadn't suffered so much the last years of his life, not sick and not dependent on oxygen everywhere he went. So in my dad's case, cancer was the self destructive button and he pushed it for many years.


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## bullethead (Mar 9, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> My dad died from lung cancer from smoking. I'm pretty sure that wasn't God's fault. Even though I believe my dad died when his number was up. I just wished he hadn't suffered so much the last years of his life, not sick and not dependent on oxygen everywhere he went. So in my dad's case, cancer was the self destructive button and he pushed it for many years.



A very good customer in my shop died of lung cancer and never smoked one cigarette. We can go on and on. Cancer Cells are in each and every one of us. Our bodies fight them every second of every day. How did those cancer cells get in each of us?


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 9, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I, too, believe our days are numbered.  I also believe that God can and will lead us to the pathway of our healing.
> 
> I guess you could say I see it like this:
> 
> Say I'm gonna die at 70 yrs old, I'd rather have a happy and healthy life rather than suffer with colon cancer for my last 10 yrs or 3 yrs or whatever. I'd rather be able to function, walk, talk, comprehend all the days of my life, rather than to be sick and unhealthy because I didn't wanna get a colonostopy (or any test). I can live healthy until I'm 70 or I can live in misery and pain until I'm 70.


So I have the power to change some of my destiny just not all of my destiny? Why do we have a built-in "getting scared" process? It's not to prevent death just to prevent damage?


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## mtnwoman (Mar 9, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> So I have the power to change some of my destiny just not all of my destiny? Why do we have a built-in "getting scared" process? It's not to prevent death just to prevent damage?



Not sure exactly what you mean but I tend to believe that someone who chooses to drink for 50 years or smoke for 50 years or does drugs for 50 years or over eat for 50 years, on the average, is less healthy than someone who doesn't do those things. Not always. My grandmother never did any of that stuff but died of colon cancer, my other grandmother died from cancer from second hand smoke.

My sister is a diabetic and has been since she was 12....if she chooses not to take care of her disease(she does) but if she chose not to, then she is chosing not to, knowing that it will cause her problems. So she is in charge of her destiny as far as health issues go in that area....because God gave some of us some common sense. She has been in groups for a long time and many many folks her age have already passed....so she and I both know that she's been healed from things that she don't even know she's been healed from...thank you God!!

And I'm not saying everyone in every case brings sickness or ill health on themselves. I'm just saying if we do something that we know will hurt us, then it's our own fault when eventually our 'carelessness' catches up to us.

And like bullet says, if we in fact all have cancer cells in our bodies, why raise our chances of it taking over by doing things or consuming things that we know will up the chances? That's why God tells us not to do this or eat that, etc, for our health, not because He doesn't want us to enjoy life.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 9, 2012)

bullethead said:


> Our bodies fight them every second of every day. How did those cancer cells get in each of us?



red dyed koolaide?

I had my share.


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## bullethead (Mar 9, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> red dyed koolaide?
> 
> I had my share.



??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 9, 2012)

I guess what I was getting at is, If i'm predestined to die on a certain day, why do I get scared when i'm camping and there is a grizzly bear outside my tent? I'm more scared that he is going to eat me than mangle me for life.


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 9, 2012)

fish hawk said:


> Everyone's days are numbered,believer and unbeliever alike,because we all got a date with death.....Psalm 90:12 So teach us to number our days,That we may gain a heart of wisdom......God wants us to use our time on earth wisely.Not taking care of yourself is not wise!!!Go see the Doc.Ive also come to the assumption that arguing with a bunch of atheist is pointless and not very wise at all!!!Yall have at it and rock on


 
Days being numbered just means our days are LIMITED.
We do all have a date with death and you can rush it along if you have a mind to. I think you have more control of your destiny than some Churches tell you you have.
The following is from Dick Innes of ACTS International.

http://www.actsweb.org/articles/article.php?c=2&d=2&i=1233


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## Asath (Mar 9, 2012)

Dodger – I can’t thank you enough for that link.

Quote (from Mr. Innes):  “On the other hand, there is no doubt that we can shorten our life by not living in harmony with God's ways, through an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, nursing grudges, an unforgiving spirit, unresolved super-charged repressed negative emotions, impaired relational conflicts, too much stress and anxiety, addictive behaviors and/or substances, and any of a score or more of other unhealthy habits and ways of living.”

Yikes.  Who knew that God prescribed a healthy diet (whatever that means this week); exercise (which I’m still looking through the Good Book for); resolving super-charged repressed negative emotions (is that done by stuff like, say, getting cheesed off and drowning all of Creation, or is it as simply resolved as just smiting a few cities and civilizations and turning a few folks into pillars of salt?); having ‘unimpaired’ relational conflicts (define that one, I dare you); avoiding stress and anxiety (in the context of a Book that condemns you before you are born, as though that alone might not be a little stressful as an unearned precondition); and avoiding addictive behaviors (like a lifetime of adhering to ritualized nonsense) and substances (which were also Given to you, like your free will, whether you liked it or not.)

The answer we’re getting here seems to be that one is absolutely endowed with the ability to wholly embrace whatever excuse one finds convenient or popular for whatever circumstance might arise, as well as the ability to argue the veracity of that excuse no matter how many new words, terms, concepts, facts, and doctrines need to be invented on the fly to back up that excuse.

I would expound on that a little, and quote everyone from Lucretius to Hume and back again, but I can’t, because the dog ate my homework.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 10, 2012)

bullethead said:


> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



ie vacation bible school.

When I was like 7,8,9,10, I got a ride on a neighborhood truck, it was a green panel truck, chevy I think, with windows and it was dark green... about 10 kids in neighborhood, ok all the kids in the neighborhood. We all went to bible school thanks to the kindness of a man we didn't hardly know....that way we could get free snacks, cookies, see our friends and drink punch... and our mamas well at least mine made us deviled egg sandwiches, strawberry kool aid and tater chips when the bus dropped all of us back off.

I thought maybe you knew about red dye number something...it was kind of a joke....sorry, my bad.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 10, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> I guess what I was getting at is, If i'm predestined to die on a certain day, why do I get scared when i'm camping and there is a grizzly bear outside my tent? I'm more scared that he is going to eat me than mangle me for life.



"Fear Not".....I just pray that my death is painless for me and for all my loved ones. My days are numbered. Everyone is scared. That is the 'us' part of us...our soul. My spirit is ready right now, this moment, to fly away.

Oh yeah and stay away from grizzlys, or grizzlies..?


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## Artfuldodger (Mar 10, 2012)

Proverbs 3:2 Lets us know that following God's commandments will lengthen our life.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Jesus said his body was a temple. The Bible tells us our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. It's kinda scary comparing ourselves to Jesus huh? 
The mind, body, spirit living in harmony is very important to our health. Stress causes lots of medical problems.


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## mtnwoman (Mar 10, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> Proverbs 3:2 Lets us know that following God's commandments will lengthen our life.
> King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
> For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
> 
> ...



Absolutely!!


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