# gobbler guns final strut chokes



## mattlewis (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi new to the forum just wondering if anyone has used one of these chokes or had this company do any custom work.


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## dwills (Feb 23, 2009)

I had considered letting them do work on my benelli m2 but chose to buy a primos choke and nitro ammo instead. Now my shotgun is shooting the best patterns that I have ever seen. The pattern is almost too tight. I would save the money that you'd spend letting them fix your gun up and go with nitro ammo...i promise you won't be disappointed!


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## mattlewis (Feb 23, 2009)

I have a benelli m2 also with a rhino choke and a primos choke and neither one has patterned very well at 40 yards but I have not tried the nitro ammo.


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## head buster (Feb 23, 2009)

Or you could go the route of a jelly head and extented range ammo. Haven't tried the Nitro but after Sunday doing some shooting I'll stick with what I got.


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## straightshooter (Feb 24, 2009)

I will begin this by saying that my post will seem biased, and in many ways it is.  I don't work for or get paid by this company, but Rob Roberts and Keith Anderson have been doing my custom choke, barrel and trigger work for about 15 years.  These guys have been developing custom turkey, waterfowl and sporting clays guns for more than two decades, and I will tell you that you won't find anyone with more knowledge and experience when it comes to turkey guns than these two guys.  I can tell you that some of today's standard features found on some well known factory models were once custom aftermarket products and services developed by these guys.

Rob formed Rob Roberts Custom Gunworks and Gobbler Guns a couple of years ago, and Keith is his operations manager.

They currently have choke and load development technology that their competitors don't have.  Their two computerized pattern analysis machines are on the cutting edge, and they can develop a combination that matches the bore of the barrel, choke and load for optimum performance.  In case after case after case, they are able to make what you think is phenomenal performance from your gun even better.  

You will find that their goal is not to see how many pellets the Gobbler Guns choke will put in a 10 inch circle.  Rest assured, the number will be staggering.  If I was shooting Nitros with those hundreds and hundreds of #7 shot, there's no telling how many pellets I'd put in that 10 inch circle.  Try shooting straight 4, 5 or 6 shot and see what you've got.  That will tell you how good your gun really is.    

It seems to me that the goal here is to cleanly harvest a gobbler, and squeezing all of your pellets into that 10 inch circle will one day cause a miss since you're not shooting at a stationary paper target in the wild.  A gobbler can move his head just a few inches as you're taking a shot, and you've got a miss or a wounded bird.    

In fact, the Gobbler Guns pattern analyzer factors in 171 positions a gobbler can move his head within a 15 inch circle, and their choke/load development for your gun will be geared so that the gun scores as close to 171 as possible.  In other words, any place a gobbler moves his head in that larger than 10" magical circle would still result in a very dead bird.  My Gobbler Guns SuperX-2 scores a 171 at 40 yards, and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a bird at 60+ yards.  Fortunately my package gives me some help in that 15 inch circle when the bird is much closer than 40.     

I know that many on this board have talked about how certain new loads don't seem to pattern as well as older loads from the same company.  I think you'll find that the newer ammo is probably better than it's predecessor, but it no longer matches the choke you've been shooting.  You'll find that to get the best performance from your gun, you've got to perfectly match the bore, choke and load.  This is what these guys can do.

They have shot thousands of patterns through virtually every brand of gun, barrel length and choke restriction using various brands of ammo (lead and heavier than lead).  You won't find them chasing the Still Target World Championship.  They're all about killing turkeys.  I will tell you, however, that I heard that one of Rob's chokes did set a 20 gauge world record at the shoot even though he didn't build it for that purpose.  It was the same choke you'd buy for your 20. 

So there, I told you it would sound biased.  Guys, if you're happy with what you've got, the Gobbler Guns' folks can't help you.  But if you aren't happy with your gun's performance or if you'd like to make what you've got better, get in touch with them.  You don't have anything to lose and you just might have a lot to gain.


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## rutandstrut (Feb 24, 2009)

dwills said:


> I had considered letting them do work on my benelli m2 but chose to buy a primos choke and nitro ammo instead. Now my shotgun is shooting the best patterns that I have ever seen. The pattern is almost too tight. I would save the money that you'd spend letting them fix your gun up and go with nitro ammo...i promise you won't be disappointed!



I do not see how you are saving money by using Nitro Shells and a Primos Choke Tube. You may have saved a few dollars on a Primos Choke (45 as oppose to 50-60). The Nitro Shells are 7-8 Dollars a shot and that is if you buy the 25 shell box. If you buy smaller quantities they are close to $10 per shot. 

I have had Rob work on both of my Turkey Guns. Both of my guns now have a 169-171 True Turkey Factor Rating using the "Lucky Weasel" Software to match a shell and choke to my Shotguns. With that said, everyone that has visited Rob's shop with the same opinion about using a Rhino Choke and Nitro Ammo or some other Choke and Nitro Ammo. Has left shooting one of Rob's "Final Strut" Choke Tubes and shooting off the shelf readily available, less expensive ammo. You would be surprised at the people that use Rob's stuff! If you talk to Rob and ask he will tell you who's guns he has worked on. The list is very impressive! 

The way I see it is you can spend $100 for a Rhino Choke and $155 for a box of Nitro Shells or you can spend approx. $235 to have Rob work on your Gun. He will lengthen the Forcing Cones, Polish out the Barrel, shoot the Shotgun will several different choke sizes and brands of shells and provide all the targets so you can choose the one you prefer. Of course he will recommend that you use one over another, but he will give you several options. He will then ship your Turkey Killer back to you shooting the best possible pattern that it can shoot from 10-50+ yards!

Here are the pattern targets from my Mossberg 835:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=204435&highlight=835+patterning

Here are the pattern targets from my Stoeger M2000:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=204433&highlight=m2000+patterning


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## dwills (Feb 24, 2009)

I appreciate the input but I actually saved a bunch of money by shooting the nitros. I paid $45 for a primos jellyhead choke and $70 for 10 nitro sells. I used 5 of those shells to pattern my gun at various yardages and was shocked at the results. So I spent a total of $80 in all to pattern my gun without having to send it off. In my opinion, I spend about $200 less to get a pattern that is just as good as the one you paid much more for. If you send your shotgun to off, you still have to turn around and buy shells, which aren't exactly cheap either. The winchester extended range are running forty something dollars a box now.


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## rutandstrut (Feb 24, 2009)

dwills said:


> I appreciate the input but I actually saved a bunch of money by shooting the nitros. I paid $45 for a primos jellyhead choke and $70 for 10 nitro sells. I used 5 of those shells to pattern my gun at various yardages and was shocked at the results. So I spent a total of $80 in all to pattern my gun without having to send it off. In my opinion, I spend about $200 less to get a pattern that is just as good as the one you paid much more for. If you send your shotgun to off, you still have to turn around and buy shells, which aren't exactly cheap either. The winchester extended range are running forty something dollars a box now.



I know I can't convert everyone and appreciate your opinion. I am very high on the Gobbler Guns System and am convinced that it is the way to go until something better come along. I do not think Rob will rst on his laurels or sit on his hands, he is always striving to make what he does better! I am convinced that if you or anyone else sent their gun to Rob and had it worked on they would be as sold as I am!


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## mattlewis (Feb 24, 2009)

the reason i posted this thread was to get some feedback on robs custom work i live within driving distance of another wellknown custom choke builder but the custmer service is not what it should be after reading these replies and talking to gobbler guns (rob) on the phone i shipped my gun to him this afternoon. I would love to try the nitro shells and may do so but i dont want to be limited to this option since these shells take a while to get i like the idea of knowing all of my options without having to buy lots of different types of shells and knowing there was no human error involed when patterning the gun. thanks for all the info i will post results when i get the gun back.


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## rutandstrut (Feb 24, 2009)

When you get the gun back let us know what you think! I am sure you will be extremely happy with the way it shoots! Rob does great work!


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## straightshooter (Feb 24, 2009)

There is a huge difference in the total number of pellets in a load of 8s and 9s as opposed to a load of 4, 5 or 6.  There are hundreds of more pellets in the shell, so they should put more holes in the target.


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## mattlewis (Feb 25, 2009)

Gadget said:


> Most Benelli's have a chrome lined cryogenic barrel, doing any barrel work will ruin it, it already has a chrome mirror finish, doesn't need any polishing. There are other guns that don't respond well to barrel work too. I read on either Rhino's website or Nitro where they don't recommend lengthening the forcing cone on any gun.
> 
> C&P
> 
> ...



I also read on the nitro site where they do not recommend to lengthen the forcing cone on any shotgun, But rhino recommends that you do lengthen the forcing cone so i went to the choke builders shop to ask why he recommends to lengthen the forcing cone but nitro does not and yet they promote each others products and the only answer i could get was "bring me the gun and ill make it shoot better" all i wanted was for him to explain why he recommended it and nitro didn't this is when i decided to find someone who would answer this question. I found gobbler guns on the web and after hearing the reviews on this forum i called him he spent 45 minutes on the phone with me explaining what he would do and why he would do it. I was also concerned about lengthening the forcing cone wondering if it could cause damage to the barrel gobbler guns (rob) assured me it would not damage my barrel and that it would improve the performance and lessen the recoil of my gun. when it comes to shooting custom ammo i have nothing against it i might try one of them but my goal is for my shotgun to shoot well with common easy to find ammo out to 45-50 yards.


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## gobble157 (Feb 25, 2009)

Since we're showing patterns I guess I'll throw mine up as well. 

Browning Gold 
Nitro 4x6x7 heavyshot 3.5"
40 yards


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Feb 25, 2009)

We have quite a few people here that has done quite a bit of shooting and research and some of this stuff can get quite scientific.  I don't care to do the research so I just get advice from the experts.  But, like any science, you are going to have opposing view points and it's easy to get confused.

Both Marty and Tim have used  Gobbler Guns and it's apparent that they are quite pleased with their gun's performance.  When I talked to them I told them that I was pleased with my gun's performance and they didn't try to push anything on me.  Most folks would have kept pressing and pressing trying to convince me.  I get a pretty good pattern with my berretta/rhino combination, I put a Burris holo on it to make sure it shoots straight.  But, the season is too close for me to send my gun anywhere, but I just might check them out before next season.


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## straightshooter (Feb 25, 2009)

Exactly right David.  I shoot straight #5 Winchester Extended Range, and that's what my gun was set up for.  My gun/choke combination does not shoot other ammo brands as well as it does Winchester.  The next best was Hevi-13.  But I'm not going to go through the process of testing Winchester, Federal, Hevi-Shot, Remington and other specialty loads to find out what my gun shoots best.  
I let someone else do it, since they know far more about the process than I do, and they've got access to tools and equipment that I don't have.  

Guys who shoot shells filled with 7, 8 or 9 shot will always have patterns with lots of holes in them.  They've got hundreds of more pellets in a load than my straight #5s.  You'll find that in the Nitro 457 loads, the vast majority of pellets is the small #7.  That gives you that impressive pattern, and guys claim that the little pellets will kill gobblers at 60 yards and beyond.  Maybe they will.

The bottom line of this thread is that there's a new option for turkey hunters who want to maximize the performance of their turkey gun (they do the same for waterfowl and clays guns too).  Some guys will want those services and some will do their own testing.  The good news is that turkey hunters tend to care about shotgun performance.  That's a good thing.  I wish waterfowl hunters shared that concern, but that's another thread for a different category.


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## Gadget (Feb 25, 2009)

mattlewis said:


> I also read on the nitro site where they do not recommend to lengthen the forcing cone on any shotgun, But rhino recommends that you do lengthen the forcing cone so i went to the choke builders shop to ask why he recommends to lengthen the forcing cone but nitro does not and yet they promote each others products and the only answer i could get was "bring me the gun and ill make it shoot better" all i wanted was for him to explain why he recommended it and nitro didn't this is when i decided to find someone who would answer this question. I found gobbler guns on the web and after hearing the reviews on this forum i called him he spent 45 minutes on the phone with me explaining what he would do and why he would do it. I was also concerned about lengthening the forcing cone wondering if it could cause damage to the barrel gobbler guns (rob) assured me it would not damage my barrel and that it would improve the performance and lessen the recoil of my gun. when it comes to shooting custom ammo i have nothing against it i might try one of them but my goal is for my shotgun to shoot well with common easy to find ammo out to 45-50 yards.




I wonder if they would recommend lengthening the forcing cone on a SBEII with a chrome lined barrel ? Maybe I'll call and ask, curious what they'd say.


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 25, 2009)

But most of us arent cool enough to get those loads. 




Gadget said:


> Most Benelli's have a chrome lined cryogenic barrel, doing any barrel work will ruin it, it already has a chrome mirror finish, doesn't need any polishing. There are other guns that don't respond well to barrel work too. I read on either Rhino's website or Nitro where they don't recommend lengthening the forcing cone on any gun.
> 
> C&P
> 
> ...


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## Gadget (Feb 25, 2009)

TurkeyManiac said:


> But most of us arent cool enough to get those loads.




Based on your avatar, I'd say you need to stick with lead loads........definitely not cool enough for hevishot......


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## TurkeyManiac (Feb 25, 2009)

Gadget said:


> Based on your avatar, I'd say you need to stick with lead loads........definitely not cool enough for hevishot......



Ouch man. Dang.   I'll go back to the Atalatal I guess...
I know Hevishot. I have him as a friend here at Woody's.


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## straightshooter (Feb 25, 2009)

Right on Gadget.  My pattern seems to be a bit more consistent than Tim's.  The Gobbler Guns pattern analysis process factors in a 15 inch kill area, with a 10 center being the focus.  What you want is to kill that bird anywhere within that 15 inch area in case he moves his head as you pull the trigger.  I've also got plenty of pellets to do the job in the 20 inch ring as well, since my gun patterns 99.8% at 40 yards.

I will say this.  Guys who are only concerned with the 10 inch pattern at 40 will wind up missing birds inside of 40 from time to time because the bird moved.


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## straightshooter (Feb 25, 2009)

Believe it or not, I left the pattern analysis sheets that Gobbler Guns sends you when they finish the gun (see Rut-N-Strut's photos) in my stepson's truck.  They have now disappeared.  I'll have to see if Gobbler Guns has a copy on file.


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## mattlewis (Feb 25, 2009)

Gadget said:


> I wonder if they would recommend lengthening the forcing cone on a SBEII with a chrome lined barrel ? Maybe I'll call and ask, curious what they'd say.



I called gobbler guns and asked this question and they told me that the forcing cone is not chrome lined only the barrel is chrome lined they only lengthen and polish the cone they do nothing to a chrome lined barrel thanks for bringing this to my attention i hope this answered your question.


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## rthill (Feb 25, 2009)

I have a m1 with a kick's tube constricted down to .665  . I shoot the black box winchester 1 3/4  5's and 6's that are pushing 1300 at the muzzle. I am very pleased with my guns killing ability. I am sure I could spend the money and get something a little better but hey, if it works why fix it right? I am currently getting a nice dense even pattern. I have left a buch of hens lonely and widowed with this gun between 30 and 40! I can do without a brusied shoulder and cheek, but I do need the meat!!


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## rthill (Feb 25, 2009)

By the way Gadget, mad props to the hooks!


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2009)

mattlewis said:


> I called gobbler guns and asked this question and they told me that the forcing cone is not chrome lined only the barrel is chrome lined they only lengthen and polish the cone they do nothing to a chrome lined barrel thanks for bringing this to my attention i hope this answered your question.




Thanks!  I tried to call them twice yesterday, message said out till 4pm. I've never heard that before, about the forcing cone not being chromed, news to me. I will definitely research this further and will be giving them a call.

I took my SBEII and one of my Browning BPS's to gun docc a few years ago. Only ended up doing a trigger job on my SBE, didn't want to mess up the barrel, but on the BPS I had him do the barrel work. It helped the pattern some but the biggest difference was switching to hevi-shot.

I'll pull the barrel out tonight and have a look and see if I can tell where the chrome lining starts.


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2009)

rthill said:


> By the way Gadget, mad props to the hooks!







 killed him about 4 yrs ago.


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## mattlewis (Feb 26, 2009)

Gadget said:


> Thanks!  I tried to call them twice yesterday, message said out till 4pm. I've never heard that before, about the forcing cone not being chromed, news to me. I will definitely research this further and will be giving them a call.
> 
> I took my SBEII and one of my Browning BPS's to gun docc a few years ago. Only ended up doing a trigger job on my SBE, cause I didn't want to mess up the barrel, but on the BPS I had him do the barrel work. It helped the pattern some but the biggest difference was switching to hevi-shot.
> 
> I'll pull the barrel out tonight and have a look and see if I can tell where the chrome lining starts.



Let me know once you look at it tonight I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to how the barrels are made I have shot several different types of shells through the gun and it just would not hold a good even pattern out to 40 yards I've killed turkeys with it the way it is out to about 25 yards but I just want to know that I'm good out to about 50 yards with it I will probly end up shooting some sort of heavy shot but I really wanted a pro to look at it for that's why I sent it to gobbler guns.  Where do you get the tss shells you are talking about I would like to read about them


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## long beards (Feb 26, 2009)

just step it up and get a real gun http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=187002&highlight=


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## Gadget (Feb 26, 2009)

mattlewis said:


> Let me know once you look at it tonight





I pulled the gun apart, gave it a through cleaning and inspected the barrel, they were right, the chrome lining starts at the end of the forcing cone. The barrel is stainless so you have to look close to see where the chrome lining starts. I had always thought it went all the way back to the receiver, that's what I had been told so I never questioned it.


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## mattlewis (Feb 26, 2009)

Gadget said:


> I pulled the gun apart, gave it a through cleaning and inspected the barrel, they were right, the chrome lining starts at the end of the forcing cone. The barrel is stainless so you have to look close to see where the chrome lining starts. I had always thought it went all the way back to the receiver, that's what I had been told so I never questioned it.



Good deal thanks for letting me know since I have already sent my gun off. I have read about the nitros on there website but where do you get the tss shells?


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## mattlewis (Feb 27, 2009)

Gadget said:


> Based on what I've seen I'm sure they'll have your gun tuned right, will be money well spent. Did you send ammo with it or are they gonna provide it?
> 
> The TSS can only be hand loaded at this time, no one sells it.



They will provide the ammo for me he said they will shoot a little bit of everything for me that should let me know what does the best without me having to buy it all they probably wont shoot any custom ammo just factory lead and heavy shot i have shot winchester hv lead and remington heavy shot myself and the winchester lead patterned the best the way the gun was when i sent it to them so hopefully after they are done with it i will know what does the best thanks for all of your info and knowledge you and this forum really helped with all of my questions


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## Gadget (Feb 27, 2009)

mattlewis said:


> They will provide the ammo for me he said they will shoot a little bit of everything for me that should let me know what does the best without me having to buy it all they probably wont shoot any custom ammo just factory lead and heavy shot i have shot winchester hv lead and remington heavy shot myself and the winchester lead patterned the best the way the gun was when i sent it to them so hopefully after they are done with it i will know what does the best thanks for all of your info and knowledge you and this forum really helped with all of my questions




Be sure to post the results when you get the patterns back, I'd like to see them.


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## rutandstrut (Feb 27, 2009)

straightshooter said:


> Right on Gadget.  My pattern seems to be a bit more consistent than Tim's.  The Gobbler Guns pattern analysis process factors in a 15 inch kill area, with a 10 center being the focus.  What you want is to kill that bird anywhere within that 15 inch area in case he moves his head as you pull the trigger.  I've also got plenty of pellets to do the job in the 20 inch ring as well, since my gun patterns 99.8% at 40 yards.
> 
> I will say this.  Guys who are only concerned with the 10 inch pattern at 40 will wind up missing birds inside of 40 from time to time because the bird moved.



Here are my Patterns from both of my Guns. I called today and talked to Gobbler Guns and he assured me that the circles that are shown on these targets are the 20 and 30 inch circles. They do not print out the 10 inch circle on the pattern targets. I think both of these throw a pretty consistent pattern in a 20 Inch Circle! 

Stoeger M2000 Turkey Gun







Mossberg 835 Thumbhole 21" Barrel Turkey Gun


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## Gadget (Feb 27, 2009)

rutandstrut said:


> Here are my Patterns from both of my Guns. I called today and talked to Gobbler Guns and he assured me that the circles that are shown on these targets are the 20 and 30 inch circles. They do not print out the 10 inch circle on the pattern targets. I think both of these throw a pretty consistent pattern in a 20 Inch Circle!





Based on what Marty said I figured those to be 10 and 15 inch circles.......

This is a 10 and 20 inch ring on my target, didn't have enough room to draw the 30 but I counted only 62 pellets outside the 20 inch circle, would be around a 98% pattern @ 40yds if I could.


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## rutandstrut (Feb 27, 2009)

Gadget, That is a very impressive pattern! Which is not available to the Average Turkey Hunter. I will not debate that. 

There are however several drawbacks that I see in using this Shot in your shotgun: 

#1 - Availability (as you stated above they are not available to the general public)

#2 - The second is the cost per round of these shells (Nitros are 7-10 per shell!) What is the cost of these shells in quantities of 10, 25? 

#3 Very little data has been complied on what this shot will do to your Barrel and or Choke. I have been told by several Licensed Gun Smiths that they have removed Rhino Chokes that had been worn oval by shooting Nitro Shells through them. 

What is this doing to the inside of your Barrel over time. Chrome has a Rockwell Hardness of 68-74, Tungsten Carbide has a Mohs hardness rating of 7.5 which falls between Quartz and Topaz on this Scale. This is equivalent to a Rockwell Hardness of 70+. Since these TSS Pellets are harder than the Chrome Lining in the Barrel, I do not see how the company that poduces them can claim that it will not do any damage to your barrel!


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