# Another Lever Gun Project **Update 8/23/15**



## hayseed_theology

Since I finished up the Lever Gun Project, I have been hunting a new victim.  I decided my next project would be another lever action or a revolver.  Hours of scouring the marketplace, Gunbroker, and every gun/pawn shop in the state have finally paid off.  I happened upon a Revelation Model 205 in .30-30 Winchester.

When I first laid eyes on it, I thought it was a Marlin 336.  While it’s almost a dead ringer, you Marlin guys will notice that the extractor, lever retaining screw, tang shape, and trigger location are different.  It appears that some small parts might be interchangeable, but the internals are quite different.  So who did manufacture it?  O.F. Mossberg and Sons!  Yep, it is essentially a Mossberg 472 that was made sometime in the 70’s.  It was made for Western Auto and sold under their Revelation brand.  All parts interchange with the Mossy 472.  A little reading on the internet revealed that this model is generally accurate and reliable, but the most common failure was a cycling issue caused by a worn/broken/missing carrier spring.

Mechanically, what kind of condition is it in? Inoperable. The gun DOES NOT FIRE.  That was the first thing the salesman told me when he handed it to me.  I inspected it and noticed that it appears to be missing the striker portion of the firing pin assembly.  That would explain why it wouldn’t fire.  It cycles snap caps flawlessly, so I think $10 worth of parts will have it shooting again.  Bore is in good shape.

Cosmetically, what kind of condition is it in?  Rough.  Blueing is worn off in places.  There is surface rust scattered all over the gun with some light pitting in places.  The furniture is heavily scratched, but there are no chips or cracks.  I believe the wood is salvageable.

So what’s on tap for this project?  The first step will be to getting it shooting again.  Next step will be to repair or replace any broken parts (like the barrel band screw with the head broken off).  Next, I will have to decide if I want to return to iron sights or scope it.  That will either entail replacing the sights and/or figuring out what kind of scope to put on it.  Next, the fit and condition of the recoil pad is poor so that will be replaced.  After that, I will refinish the wood.  Finally, I want to make my first attempt at slow rust blueing to refinish the metal.

So I need some input from y’all, particularly some of our resident experts.  
- Should I leave the barrel at 20” or cut it down to 18”? Or 16.5”?  I am leaning towards leaving it alone, but since it’s not a JM stamped Marlin or a classic Winny, it would be a good candidate for a chop.
- Iron sights or scope?  I would love to keep the scope that is on it, but it has a good bit of rust on it.  The scope is an old steel tube Weaver K4-1 with a tapered post and fine crosshair reticle.  It’s a classic scope with a relatively unique reticle, which makes it pretty cool to me.  The glass is sufficiently clear.  Is it possible to reblue a scope without ruining the seals?  If not, maybe it needs a peep sight.
- Is the furniture walnut or birch?  The buttstock looks like walnut to me, and the forend looks like birch.  On a rough, old gun like this, I still struggle to tell the difference sometimes.  If the pics aren’t clear enough, I’m sure I will figure it out after I strip the finish.
- I plan on using Pilkington’s Classic American Rust Blue.  This is will be my first attempt at it, and I am concerned about the frame and lever accepting blueing.  They appear to be more of a plum color while the barrel, magazine tube, and base plate appear to have a traditional dark blue color.  It doesn’t translate well in the pics, but the frame and lever have a strong purple hue.  Does this mean that they are a different alloy and may not blue well?

I have noticed a funny thing while taking pictures of guns.  A beautiful gun never looks as good in a photo as it does in real life, and a roughed up gun never looks as bad in a photo as it does in real life.  Here are the “Before” pics.  I took a bunch so you could get a good idea of what the starting point is.


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## Sharps40

There is almost no value, beyond parts, without functionality.  Get it running...should be easy if you are only missing the aft firing pin...might even be able to make one from lasalle steel for a dollar2nintyfive.

Then have at it.  Its a fine project.


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## Sharps40

The aft striker is part 53 at the link.  Available for $7.95 and shipping.

Get er done!

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Mossberg-33399/Rifles-37442/472PCA-39401.htm?page=4

Ya may also need part 54, striker retracting spring....total should be unner 20 bucks if thats all it needs.


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## Sharps40

The plumb color on the steel means the original bluing is now turning into patina....i.e. collectalble rust.  Sand it off and blue it.

Your wood is nice quality walnut.  Treat it well.


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## The Longhunter

hayseed_theology said:


> - I plan on using Pilkington’s Classic American Rust Blue.  This is will be my first attempt at it, and I am concerned about the frame and lever accepting blueing.  They appear to be more of a plum color while the barrel, magazine tube, and base plate appear to have a traditional dark blue color.  It doesn’t translate well in the pics, but the frame and lever have a strong purple hue.  Does this mean that they are a different alloy and may not blue well?
> .



All is steel, probably slightly different alloys of same.  The color difference is more likely due the heat treatment of the frame and lever, which can affects how those parts take the blue, especially as they age.

How that will affect the blue you intend to use, I don't know.  You could always case finish those parts.


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## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> The aft striker is part 53 at the link.  Available for $7.95 and shipping.
> 
> Get er done!
> 
> http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Mossberg-33399/Rifles-37442/472PCA-39401.htm?page=4
> 
> Ya may also need part 54, striker retracting spring....total should be unner 20 bucks if thats all it needs.



Thanks!  Got the striker, striker retaining pin, barrel band screw, and a hammer spur extension on order from Numrich.  We should have her back slinging lead in no time.


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## Sharps40

Very cool.  I thought it interesting that this little known firearm had a nearly complete bin of parts up there at numrich.  Must not be much call for spares.  Gonna make a nice refinish whatever direction ya decide to go.  No paint though.  Paint is for fences and walls and trucks and such....not guns.


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## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> Very cool.  I thought it interesting that this little known firearm had a nearly complete bin of parts up there at numrich.  Must not be much call for spares.  Gonna make a nice refinish whatever direction ya decide to go.  No paint though.  Paint is for fences and walls and trucks and such....not guns.



No paint.  I really want to do the rust blue.  Part of the reason for even doing the project is so I can learn how to do it.  I will have to buy a tank.  I am thinking this one: black iron tank.  Will my 3 burner gas grill be enough to bring a 40" tank to boil?


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## Sharps40

That's the tank I have and it should boil but prolly slow w/o a lid.  I cover with tinfoil.  test it first about 2/3 full it'll hold more than 4 gallons of water full up....

Any lil stove, even a coleman fuel stove will melt a 10 lb pot o lead for casting.  

Practice on scraps first.....get yer technique afore ya rip the old blue off the gun.

PS....yer gun already has the "hot ticket super custom folks worrie bout it too much way cool bragging rights look at how much I spent on my marlin 336" accurizer modification.....A stock thru bolt!


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## hunterofopportunity

i have one just like it, shoots accurate enough but mine has the notorious cycling problem


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## Sharps40

All marlins cycle terrible!


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## hayseed_theology

hayseed_theology said:


> Thanks!  Got the striker, striker retaining pin, barrel band screw, and a hammer spur extension on order from Numrich.  We should have her back slinging lead in no time.



Parts came in last week.  Got the striker and retaining pin installed last night.  It looks like that will take care of the problem.

One of the many small things that make this gun different from a 336 is the lever retaining pin.  The 336 uses a screw.  The Mossy 472 uses a large pin with a groove cut in the center for a detent that holds it in place.  It pops out with a light tap from a punch and a hammer.  On side eject lever guns, it seems to me that the easiest way to remove the bolt is to open it about halfway.  Make sure hammer is cocked. Remove pin or screw holding lever in place.  Lever comes down.  Pull bolt out from the rear.  Be careful not to lose the ejector when removing the bolt.

Here are a couple videos showing the disassembly and reassembly of this gun:





I also checked the scope with my bore sighter.  It was way off.  But, it adjusted smoothly.  So, the glass, crosshairs, elevation, and windage adjustments seem to be in good working order.  If I can figure out what to do with the finish, I think I can salvage the scope.

While I had the bolt out, I ran a few patches down the bore to give it a quick clean.  Always best to clean from the breech end, but that doesn't normally happen with a lever action.  Man, the inside is gunked up big time.  It will get a good cleaning after I test fire.

Also added the hammer spur extension to aid in cocking and lowering the hammer.

Tools:  Lyman deluxe hammer and punch set, gunsmith screwdriver set, Tipton gun vise, gun cleaning kit, laser bore sighting tool

Cost:  $15 for striker, retaining pin, and hammer spur extension


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## Sharps40

Post up targets!


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## hayseed_theology

*Range Report 5/5/14*

Got to test fire the rifle on Saturday – good news and bad news.

First, the good news – it now goes BOOM when the hammer falls!  I took a few shots at 25 yds to adjust the scope.  Then I took 3 shots at 100 yds to get a baseline group to see what we are working with.

Now, for the bad news – 100 yd group measured 6”.  See the last pic.  We are gonna have to do something about that.  I could blame it on a number of things:  
-	Maybe it didn’t like the ammo.
-	The crown shows some wear and nicks, perhaps recrowning will take care of accuracy.  
-	Trigger pull is ridiculously heavy!  Bad trigger = poor groups.
-	Bore probably needs a deep clean.
-	Could just be shooter error.

Whatever the case, I will try to eliminate some of these issues.  I don’t expect to shoot sub-MOA groups with a beat up lever action and an old 4x scope, but I’d like to cut that group size in half.

The goal for Saturday was to get it shooting again.  Now, I can work on accuracy.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update 5/7/14*

Well, it's in a bunch of pieces now.

I had a couple hours free last night so I listened to the Braves win and disassembled the Revelation 205.  It was dirty.  No telling how many years of gunk are built up on the inside of the receiver.  Judging by some of the screws, it looks like somebody else tried to take it apart without using the proper screwdriver.  This can't be emphasized enough - if you are going to tinker with guns, don't use your Craftsman screwdrivers.  Get a set of gunsmith screwdrivers bits.  I will add that I got a Tipton gun vise for Christmas.   Boy howdy! Cleaning, disassembly, and reassembly are 10 times easier with a gun vise.  Trying to hold a gun still on the table or my lap while trying to break loose a struck screw is for the birds.  The gun vise is worth the small investment.

Disassembly went pretty much as described in the videos I posted, so I won't rehash all that.  I will say, he had trouble getting the hammer down and out through the receiver, and I had trouble too.  There is some trick to it, and I am not sure what it is.  You Marlin guys will notice another difference.  Pretty much the entire action, including hammer and loading gate, comes out with the bottom plate.  Nifty idea, but I think it makes it tougher to get everything apart.

The rear barrel band screw was broken off at the head, and I have been concerned about how I would remove it without damaging the barrel band.  I got a new screw from Numrich, but they were sold out of the band.  Havlin Sales is the other go to source for parts on these puppies, but they only had the brass barrel band in stock.  Unlike the Marlins, this one threads on the opposite side from the head (like a normal screw).  I started oiling the screw several weeks ago hoping that it would penetrate the threads and loosen up.  There was a small portion of the screw sticking out the backside.  I decided to put a cutting wheel on the Dremel and cut a groove in the exposed portion of the screw in hopes that I could turn it with a flat head bit.  That way, I could unscrew it from the backside.  And... much to my surprise, it worked!  At one point, I got too close to the band with the Dremel and cut it a little.  Live by the Dremel, die by the Dremel.  It's a great tool, but is second only to rust when it comes to ruining decent guns.  I think some sanding and the reblue will take care of my blemish.

It appears that recoil had bent the screw.  You can see the screw and the spot on the barrel where it made contact (not exactly where it was supposed to).  Based on the fact that both sides of the head popped off the screw, I would guess that after a shot the recoil bent the screw and popped the head off.  Pieces are probably laying on a range or below a deer stand somewhere.  Because of the way it broke, I doubt there’s a screwdriver to blame.

There were a couple of surprises.  Masking tape on the scope rings?  Never seen that before, but apparently it was an old trick to keep the scope from slipping.  I’ve never thought of that as a huge problem for a .30-30, but I suppose the steel tube Weaver is a little heavier than today’s aluminum stuff.  It appears that the tape contributed to rust under the rings, but it’s no surprise that masking tape held moisture.  I was going to junk the rings anyway, but I had been kicking around the idea saving the scope.  The other surprise was that the bottom plate is aluminum.  Didn’t see that coming.  Not really sure why either.  So, rust bluing will not work for it.  The finish is pretty good but has a few scratches here and there.  I may leave it alone.

I’ve been chewing on this project for a while trying to figure out what direction to go.  The fact that it has no collector value and that the crown is a bit roughed up were pushing me toward cutting the barrel down to 16.5”.  If it shot a beautiful group, I was going to leave it alone.  Well, it didn’t.  The other problem with chopping it down was what kind of sights/optic to use.  I had wanted to keep the cool steel tube Weaver, but I just don’t think it will work.  I could throw a cheap 3-9x40 that I have laying around on it, but I don’t feel like that really improves the gun (if I am gonna scope it, I want it to be quality glass that really adds to the gun). Plus, I don’t like the way the scope mount sits on it.  It just looks awkward.  No one makes a scout rail for it.  It’s missing the rear sight, so even if I wanted factory irons, I would have to buy the rear sight.  Then I had an idea – how bout I chop it down to 16.5” and pair a Skinner Lo Pro on the receiver with a classy, gold bead dovetail front sight.  Yessir, I think we might be able to turn this dirty ole junker into a sweet shootin’ looker.

Tools: gun vise, gunsmith screwdriver set, gunsmith hammer and punch set, stainless steel picks of varying shapes, Dremel and accessories 

Cost:  2 hours of my time


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## Sharps40

When you get ready...after cleaning and repairs...

---try shooting it (single loaded) with no magazine tube and no forend 

---or forend but no mag tube.

Could be that between the bent forend screw and the front magazine band the barrel might walk a bit screwy under a variety of tensions and pressures from other parts. 

If it smooths out after cleaning and repairs with no no mag tube, try it fully assembled.  Ya might find its simply a bound band, possibly the front.


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## Sharps40

Ya may be able to peen and reshape that rear barrel notch back down at the lip for the new screw install....might also wrap a thin brass shim, say 1 or 2 thousands stock (or what ever it needs for a snugster fittin sleeve) around the screw as a shim to tighten it up a bit, keep it from slippin forward and bending another screw.

When ya roll up the brass into a sleeve, super glue/contact cement the edge to keep it that way and a dab of auto silykone will hold it in the groove till yer able to assemble.....  Just need to have a sort section that goes in the groove and stays there till ya slip on the band and install the screw threw it.


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## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> When you get ready...after cleaning and repairs...
> 
> ---try shooting it (single loaded) with no magazine tube and no forend
> 
> ---or forend but no mag tube.
> 
> Could be that between the bent forend screw and the front magazine band the barrel might walk a bit screwy under a variety of tensions and pressures from other parts.
> 
> If it smooths out after cleaning and repairs with no no mag tube, try it fully assembled.  Ya might find its simply a bound band, possibly the front.



If I keep having trouble with it after I get done, I will try that.  



Sharps40 said:


> Ya may be able to peen and reshape that rear barrel notch back down at the lip for the new screw install....might also wrap a thin brass shim, say 1 or 2 thousands stock (or what ever it needs for a snugster fittin sleeve) around the screw as a shim to tighten it up a bit, keep it from slippin forward and bending another screw.
> 
> When ya roll up the brass into a sleeve, super glue/contact cement the edge to keep it that way and a dab of auto silykone will hold it in the groove till yer able to assemble.....  Just need to have a sort section that goes in the groove and stays there till ya slip on the band and install the screw threw it.



That sounds like a great idea.  I was trying to think of some sort of sleeve for it.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 6/8/14*

I finally got the chance to tinker around with the gun some more.  Sunday night I played around with my new crown facing tool.  I wanted to practice using the crown cutter so I worked on the muzzle.  It was rusted, pitted, and had a couple nicks in it.  The tool worked well.  I could feel when it was cutting well and when it was chattering.

It's the 3/4" 79 Degree Muzzle Crowning Cutter from Brownell's. You buy the handle and bore specific pilots separately.  You apply some cutting oil.  Slide it in the bore.  Apply a little pressure and turn.  Simple as that.  Stop frequently to clean up chips.  I am gonna practice some more on scrap pieces of barrel before I use it on the actual gun.

Tools:  Gun vise, crown cutting tool w/ handle, .30 cal brass pilot, cutting oil, small paint brush for removing chips

Cost:  $90


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #2  6/8/14*

I also measured the barrel on Sunday night to prepare it for cutting.  There are a number of way to do this.  I used the cleaning rod method.  With the bolt closed, slide the cleaning rod down the muzzle until it contacts the face of the bolt.  I put a little blue tape on the cleaning rod to mark the depth.  Then use a tape to measure from the end of the cleaning rod to the tape.  Why is this so important? Rifle barrels have to be at least 16", and I want to make sure the gun is legal after I cut it down.

Numrich lists the Revelation 205 barrels at 20.5".  Measuring from the muzzle to the receiver gives you 19.5".  Using the cleaning rod method (the correct way to measure), I come up with 20.25" on the dot.

Here's a good video from Larry Potterfield on how to measure all sorts of barrels:


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## hayseed_theology

I cut the barrel down tonight.  Will post pics and write up tomorrow on my lunch break.  Too tired to do it tonight.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 6/12/14*

Well, I cut down the barrel last night.  I have to admit, even though I've done it before, the first few strokes of the hacksaw require a lot more courage than effort.

Last time I cut down a barrel, I simply used adjustable clamps to hold it down.  That worked, but not well.  I have a vise now, so I wanted to use it.  But, a vise is a good way to mar and even crush a receiver or barrel.  The best way to hold a barrel in a vise is with properly cut wood blocks.

I cut a couple equal size blocks out of a 2"x8" chunk that I had sitting around.  Clamp them together.  Using a spade bit, drill down between them in the center.  11/16" would have worked best for this barrel, but the closest I had was a 5/8".  I used a wood rasp to open it up a little more.

Works great for clamping the gun in the vise.

Tools:  scrap wood, saw, drill, spade bit, c-clamp, wood rasp, tape measure, vise

Cost: Free


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #2  6/12/14*

I decided to take 3 7/16" off the barrel.  That should put the barrel length just a shade over 16.75".

I start by re-measuring the barrel using the cleaning rod method.  I am paranoid about measuring and re-measuring after I took too much off the stock on my last project.  The old saying rings true, "You can always take more off, but it's a lot harder to put it back."

I measure 3 7/16" and  wrap the barrel with a piece of blue painters tape.  This serves several purposes: 1) mark the spot, 2) protect the gun from unnecessary scratches, and 3) if I am very careful in applying and lining it up, it should give me a near perfectly even reference line around the barrel.

I used the collars again to help guide the hacksaw.  This isn't necessary, but it's cheap insurance.  I feel like it helps keep the cut square to the bore so you have less work to do afterward.  I used the backside of my caliper to measure from the muzzle to the collar to make sure that it is square to the bore.

Throw it in the vise using our freshly made clamp blocks.  Take a deep breath, and start cutting.  It doesn't take very long to cut.  Obviously, the cut is pretty rough.  I started cleaning it up by touching it up against the belt/disc sander.  Belt is 120 grit.  Disc is 220 grit.  These are just used to clean it up initially.  It will take more work with files and sandpaper, but those help keep it square and remove saw marks.  When using power tools on guns, always be careful.  You can mess stuff up in a hurry.  It can all be done by hand, but power tools make it a little quicker.

And of course, we will use the crown cutting tool on it later.

Tools: vise, wood vise blocks, painters tape, 2 piece collars, hacksaw, belt/disc sander

Cost:  Free


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## mark-7mag

Man I love reading your post Hayseed! Thanks for sharing...I have a Marlin 336  .35 that I want to dissasemble, clean and then reblue and re stain the stock. Ive saved your post from when you did yours. I'm afraid I want be able to put it back together.lol


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## Sharps40

Very nicely done.   Gettin to be more fun with each try and lots more ideas buzzin round in there too huh?


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## hayseed_theology

mark-7mag said:


> Man I love reading your post Hayseed! Thanks for sharing...I have a Marlin 336  .35 that I want to dissasemble, clean and then reblue and re stain the stock. Ive saved your post from when you did yours. I'm afraid I want be able to put it back together.lol



Thanks!  Get yourself a little gunsmith screwdriver set and watch a bunch of youtube videos!  I guarantee you can take it apart and put it back together.  If you run into a snag, take some pics and post 'em here in the Gunsmith section.  I'm sure Sharps40 could tell you how to get it back together.  Some of his old threads have great explanations and pics of reblueing and refinishing stocks.



Sharps40 said:


> Very nicely done.   Gettin to be more fun with each try and lots more ideas buzzin round in there too huh?



Man, that's the worst part of it!  So many ideas, so little time and money.  I've got 3 or 4 build ideas rolling around in my head right now, and that's just for 336's!


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## mark-7mag

hayseed_theology said:


> Thanks!  Get yourself a little gunsmith screwdriver set and watch a bunch of youtube videos!  I guarantee you can take it apart and put it back together.  If you run into a snag, take some pics and post 'em here in the Gunsmith section.  I'm sure Sharps40 could tell you how to get it back together.  Some of his old threads have great explanations and pics of reblueing and refinishing stocks.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's the worst part of it!  So many ideas, so little time and money.  I've got 3 or 4 build ideas rolling around in my head right now, and that's just for 336's!


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## hayseed_theology

The next step is filing and sanding the crown.  I want the crown flat and smooth before I use the cutting tool.  Then, I will polish the crown with some 600-800-1000 grit sandpaper.

Here is another video from Larry Potterfield that gives a quick overview of the process:



So I have learned some stuff about files in the past year.  I learned enough to know that I had screwed all mine up.  #1 rule is don't saw back and forth with the file.  It only cuts one direction - on the forward stroke.  Pulling the file back across your work will bend the teeth over and dull the file in a hurry.  

I've never been gentle with my files.  Why would you?  They are hardened metal, right?  Well, what you have is the equivalent of a hundred little knife blades that cut metal away.  Even though the file is very hard, all those little edges are fragile.  If you mistreat it, you will ruin those sharp edges and dull your file.

Use chalk to coat the file and keep it from clogging.  Also, clean out the file often to keep the chips from gouging your work.  It turns out that I was doing everything wrong.  When I hold my file up to the light at the right angle, I can see the flattened teeth, gouges, and dings.  All those things translate into a poor finish on the metal.

I've got a new 10" smooth cut mill file on order so I can finish cleaning up the crown and possible do some drawfiling on the receiver to remove pitting.

This video is a good primer on files:


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## ted_BSR

Nice work Hayseed. Those "before" pics actually look pretty rough. She must have been a real pig when you started. I can't wait to see the end product.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update 7/7/14*

Man, it's been almost a month since I've had a chance to work on the Revelation.  June was a busy month.  Hopefully, July isn't as bad.  I did a little work last night.

Shortening the barrel obviously necessitates shortening the magazine tube.  I want it to end up about 1/2" shorter than the barrel.  Normally, I would cut off the mag tube on the receiver side.  This leaves the barrel band relief notch and holes for end cap screw still intact.  However, I don't like how far back the forward barrel band sat on this gun.  It wouldn't look good with the shortened barrel.  So I cut off from the muzzle end of the mag tube.

I used the same wood blocks in the vise, but the barrel was slightly larger than the mag tube so it wasn't a great hold.  I took up the extra space with a shop paper towel.  I used one of the collars and kept the hacksaw right up against it.  After cutting it off, I used a couple files to clean up and deburr the cut.

After that, I decided to use the cut off blank from the mag tube to practice drilling the new holes for the mag tube end cap screw.  For that screw you need two holes (one larger than the other) located perfectly across from each other.  I decided that the best way to do that was to start with a center punch.  Clamp the piece in the vise on the drill press.  Start with the smaller drill bit and cross drill through both sides.  Then, without moving the piece, switch to a larger bit.  The bit should still be centered over the hole and should pretty much follow the already drilled hole.

It sounds pretty simple, especially on a drill press - you just cross drill a round tube, and then open up the top hole with a larger bit.  So far, I have found it nearly impossible.  I have tried about a dozen times, and I have yet to get it right.  The holes just don't line up right.  I had no idea it would be so hard to get two centered holes.   I am really glad I decided to practice on the cut off first!  I have done some reading on the net, and it sounds like it's actually pretty tricky to get it right without some sort of jig.  So, it looks like the best solution for me is to order the Williams sight/scope drilling jig.  I had planned on ordering one at some point, but I hadn't planned on needing it so soon.  With that, I should be able to cross drill a perfectly centered hole.


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## Sharps40

Yep. Drill bit walking over a concave then convex surface and outta line holes.  

The jug will help with the top hole.   The bottom hole not so much since there is still a long bendy length in the tube unsupported.  

After drillin top-back out bit - leave jig on- center punch lower hole thru jig-drill back thru jij and drill slow thru the second hole.  Both holes should line up well enough now.  (

Ya can make a home centering jig.  Metal bar or round W/3 holes.  Center hole to guide bit/punch.   Evenly spaced outer holes with pins.  Place on tube- twist till pins bare on sides- centerpunch and or drill. Functional if a bit harder to clamp or level up.  

But you will also LOVE the scissors jig.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update 7/11/14*

Today, I worked on a sleeve for the barrel band screw that goes through the forend.  This screw was broken when I bought the gun.  I ordered a replacement from Numrich.

It appears that there was lot of play between the screw, wood, and notch in the barrel.  It appears that under recoil the screw would slam forward which ultimately bent the screw and misshaped the barrel relief.

It seemed that the best way to ensure a better fit and take out all that play was with some sort of shim or sleeve.  I decided to make a sleeve out of a brass drift punch I had laying around (it came with the scout rail that I put on the original Lever Gun project).

The screw measured .120" exactly so a #31 drill was the right choice.  The hole in the forend measured just over .180".  When I started out, the punch measured .253" in diameter.  So what I needed to do was drill a hole dead center for a couple inches with the #31 drill bit.  Then turn the brass rod down to .180" to fit in the wood snug.

Getting a hole drilled dead center length wise in a piece of round stock can be tricky.  I began by cutting a piece of 2"x6" that was about 3.5" long.  I locked it in the drill press vise.  I then drilled a hole in the wood about 3" deep with a 1/4" drill bit that measured .251".  This was to hold the brass rod.  I wanted it to be a pretty snug fit.  WITHOUT MOVING ANYTHING (that's the key to this whole deal), I removed the 1/4" drill bit.  Dropped the already center punched brass rod into the 1/4" hole in the wood.  I started the hole with a center drill bit, then switched to the #31 bit.  All the while, I made sure nothing moved.  I then drilled down 2" with the small drill bit.  This gave me a hole the correct size centered and drilled length wise down the rod.  You can see in the pics where I am drilling the small hole and then checking the screw in it.

Now that I had my hole, I needed to reduce the overall diameter of the the rod.  I chucked it in the drill press and started turning it at 3000 rpm.   I used a couple files to remove the material.  I was constantly chalking, filing, cleaning the file with a wire brush, and rechalking.  Finally I got it down to about .175".

I cut it at about an 1" long and tested it in the forend.  It was very close and required just a little bit of filing to make it fit just right.  I cleaned off all the burrs and test it.  It turned out great!  The hole is pretty well centered through the entire sleeve.  It's not perfect but that's about as good as I can do with the equipment that I have.

It is a little larger than the barrel notch, so I will have to widen it just a smidge just to make it fit a little better.  But, it fits close enough to go together even now.  A little more work and it will be perfect.

The whole thing took me about 2 hours.  Replacing the screw would have been a short term fix, but I think this will last for a long time.

Tools:  Drill press and vise, files, digital caliper, brass rod, chalk, brush, scrap wood, various drill bits

Cost: $14 because I had to order a small set of center drills


----------



## Sharps40

Cool!


----------



## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> Yep. Drill bit walking over a concave then convex surface and outta line holes.
> 
> The jug will help with the top hole.   The bottom hole not so much since there is still a long bendy length in the tube unsupported.
> 
> After drillin top-back out bit - leave jig on- center punch lower hole thru jig-drill back thru jij and drill slow thru the second hole.  Both holes should line up well enough now.  (
> 
> Ya can make a home centering jig.  Metal bar or round W/3 holes.  Center hole to guide bit/punch.   Evenly spaced outer holes with pins.  Place on tube- twist till pins bare on sides- centerpunch and or drill. Functional if a bit harder to clamp or level up.
> 
> But you will also LOVE the scissors jig.



Thanks for the tip.  I don't have a center punch narrow enough to fit through the jig.  Reckon I can just grind a point on a regular ole punch?


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## Sharps40

Yep. That'll work.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 7/13/14*

Quick post while on lunch break...

I opened up the screw relief notch in the barrel a little using a 3/16" round file.  The brass sleeve for the barrel band screw fits perfect now.  There is no back and forth play in the forend, but it is not under any pressure.  Hopefully it performs well when I get the chance to do some shooting.

Next, I worked on cutting the crown on the muzzle.  I used the 79 degree crown facing tool that I had purchased from Brownell's a while back.  I wanted to be able to apply even downward pressure, but I was struggling to figure out how to clamp it.  I ended up using a hole saw to drill hole in my workbench.  Using the drill press vise and my wooden blocks, I am able to clamp the gun vertically where it is easy to work on the muzzle.  I filed a little more then started using the cutter.

The cutter is not a slow process, but it's not a fast one either.  I stopped to clean up the chips and reapply oil ever 1-2 turns.  It came out pretty well.  I will take some 800 and 1000 grit paper to it later to polish it up.

A muzzle radius cutter from Brownell's should be arriving in the mail this week along with the Williams sight/scope jig.  That will finish off the outside edges of the muzzle.

I wanted to work on cutting the dovetail for the front sight.  I had bought a Nicholson 6" slim, smooth cut triangular file from Sears a few weeks ago.  For sight work, it is best to have at least one safe side (no cutting teeth) on the file . So, I put a grinding bit in the drill press and went to work.  Go slow when grinding off the teeth.  It needs to be even, and you don't want to over heat the file because it will change the temper.  Just to make sure I didn't overheat it, I dipped it in cool water occasionally, but I think I was ok because it never got too hot to touch.

I will post about cutting the dovetail after I get off work this evening.


----------



## Sharps40

Dayum.  I hadda pay for my safe sided file.  Ya grind one side or two?


----------



## tree cutter 08

Looking good Chris, lots of time involved I know.


----------



## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> Dayum.  I hadda pay for my safe sided file.  Ya grind one side or two?



Ha.  I couldn't afford the Brownell's safe sided file!  They want almost $50 for it!  That Nicholson file was 6 bucks.  I just ground one side off.  I figured I could always turn it to where just one side was cutting.

Here's the bad part.  I should have gone back and read your posts on cutting the dovetail BEFORE I tried it.  I killed a fresh hacksaw blade and my brand spankin' new custom safe sided triangular file on that stinkin' hardened jig.  So I gotta make me a new one!  It absolutely destroyed that file.  



tree cutter 08 said:


> Looking good Chris, lots of time involved I know.



Thanks, man.  It does take some time, but I really enjoy it.  Just wish I had more time for it.  How's life?  I heard y'all were gonna be moving.


----------



## Sharps40

Yeah, files and hacksaw blades dont last too long when yere tryin to get all the way to the bottom and into the corners of that there jig.  Sure makes the tools sing and takes the cut right out of em!  One to three dovetailes and ye'll be tired and out gettin new files and saw blades!  Cheeper than a mill or lathe and cross slide though.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update #2  7/13/14*

I had more time to work on the gun this past weekend than I have had in the past 2 months combined.

I worked on cutting the dovetail for the front sight.  I figured a dovetail was easier for a beginner than drilling and tapping a couple blind holes.

I have a Wheeler Engineering scope leveling kit.  It includes two levels.  One is a small magnetized piece that sits on the top of the frame(or other flat surface).  The other clamps to the barrel and then is adjusted to match the first level.  The clamped one stays put allowing for a scope to be mounted or, in my case, the magnetized level to be put on the dovetail cutting jig.  All that said, you want the jig to be aligned and properly centered, and the best way to do that is by leveling the gun and leveling the jig.

I started by cutting with the hacksaw to remove as much metal as I could that way.  Then, I used my little safe sided triangular file to do the rest.  That was a mistake.  I should have used the edge of a larger file to remove some more material.  It took me forever with that little file!  My thumbs are still sore today.  I made a mistake using a new hacksaw blade and new file for roughing in the cut.  They are completely dull after making a little contact with that hardened jig.

The jig works fine.  The dovetail cut in the jig is a little rough as you can see in the 4th pic.  I wish it was a little cleaner. The jig is supposed to be undersized, but I feel it's a little too undersized.  A standard dovetail is supposed to be .375".  The jig is supposed to cut .360"-.370".  It's good to have the cut a little undersized.  Then, you just take a little off the sight, and you have a great fit.  But, my cut is .330" which means I have a long ways to go before I get close to even getting the sight started.  The cut is a bit shallow too.  I think some careful work with a new file will have it in good shape.

I think it will turn out fine though.  I haven't screwed anything up.  It just needs a little more work.

Tools:  vise, wheeler engineering scope leveling kit, safe sided smooth triangular file, dovetail cutting jig, chalk, wire brush, hacksaw

Cost: $46 for jig and file


----------



## Sharps40

Consider a one sided triangular file to lengthen the foot of the dovetail front to back.  Just be careful in any event so you don't angle around the barrel.  Its about 360 wide, you just can't get calipers in there to measure it due to the pinching.  

A dovetail sight with a slight lead (many press in R to L when your behind the gun) cut into the base should be a snug fit one third of the way in and then require drift/pusher to move it further.


----------



## tree cutter 08

We're busy how about y'all? Yea moving but not far, got a little more room to stir around on. How did you like that crown cutting tool. Been thing of buying on for cleaning up some crowns on some 22. Rifles.


----------



## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> Consider a one sided triangular file to lengthen the foot of the dovetail front to back.  Just be careful in any event so you don't angle around the barrel.  Its about 360 wide, you just can't get calipers in there to measure it due to the pinching.
> 
> A dovetail sight with a slight lead (many press in R to L when your behind the gun) cut into the base should be a snug fit one third of the way in and then require drift/pusher to move it further.



I will grind the next one with two safe sides for opening it up a little.  The sources I've checked say the depth should be .090".  Mine measures .081".  It just seems small all the way around.  I am gonna be very careful opening it up.  I will still leave it a little undersized and take the rest off the sight base.  Thanks for continuing to follow the thread and help me out.



tree cutter 08 said:


> We're busy how about y'all? Yea moving but not far, got a little more room to stir around on. How did you like that crown cutting tool. Been thing of buying on for cleaning up some crowns on some 22. Rifles.



Yeah, we've been pretty busy too.  The crown cutting tool works well.  Pretty pleased with it.  I like it better than the models sold by MidwayUSA.  I bought the 3/4" diameter cutter so I could work on .45 cal stuff too, but if I had it to do again, I might go with the 1/2" cutter so I could do a recessed crown.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update 7/28/14*

I haven't gotten a chance to post lately, but I did some more work on the dovetail a week or so ago.  Front sight is in.

I bought a couple new files and ground one down so that it only cut on one side.  I smoothed out the bottom of the dovetail a little, and then carefully widened it.  I removed a good bit of material, then I moved to the sight base.  It must have been a really hard alloy because I filed on it forever.  It ended up at .365" with a slight lead on the left side.  It took me about 2 hours to open the cut and remove enough off the sight base to get it to fit.

It came out decent.  The sight would push in about 1/3 of the way by hand, and I tapped it in the rest of the way with a brass hammer.  I oiled it up before pushing it in to help it slide.  It appears to be pretty straight.  The bottom of the cut didn't come out perfectly flat because the jig isn't near straight.  So if I hold it just right, I can see a just a hair of daylight (see 2nd pic).

I am planning on buying a different front sight, so this is just a tester to see what height I need to go with the Skinner Lo-Pro.  I will have the chance to level it out some more when I put a different front sight on it.

Tools:  vise, woodblocks, safe sided file, brass hammer, chalk, wire brush, gun oil

Cost: $6 for a new file


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update 9/2/14*

After not working on the lever gun for a month, I finally had some time yesterday to work on it.  I will post on it later this week.

Here's what's been taking up my time in August: I decided to go back to school and get a little more education.  It started up this month.  Unfortunately, it's not gunsmith school.  Needless to say, school has taken up a lot of my time.  Also, I had a friend drop off a BAR that wasn't shooting where it was supposed to.

I started by doing a complete cleaning on his gun.  Anytime a gun doesn't shoot where it's supposed to, cleaning it is the place to start.  It is a Belgium made BAR in .270 WIN.  I'd never disassembled a BAR before, but it wasn't too bad.  There are some tricks to it, but there are some good videos on youtube.

I also switched out the scope mounts for him.  It had the old style Leupold/Redfield base and rings with adjustable rear windage screws.  That's a fine system.  I have it on my 7 Mag, but not the best option for this gun.  This gun is his truck gun (Yes, a Belgium BAR for a truck gun!).  He farms and this stays in his truck all the time.  It gets bounced around and knocked around quite a bit.  For a gun like that, the fact that the Leupold base and rings have moving parts makes them less desirable.  I know, I know, they have worked for umpteen million years on your deer rifle, but there are better options available today for this gun.  We went with a solid one piece DNZ mount to totally eliminate the possibility of the base/rings shifting.

It took a while of soaking the ring/base screws in penetrating oil before they broke loose.  No loctite on them, just been cranked down for years.  Got to break in my new FAT Wrench.  It works great.  Awesome tool.  The DNZ mounts get torqued down to 25 in/lbs on rings and base, and NO LOCTITE per DNZ's instructions.  Also tried a new Bushnell magnetic boresighter.  We'll see if it got me on paper.  Got 3 boxes of ammo to try in it this weekend to see what it likes and sight it in.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 9/5/14*

As I mentioned in the previous post, after a month of not getting to work on the gun, I spent a good portion of Labor Day tinkering with it.

The first order of business was to drill out the holes for the screw at the end of the mag tube.  You will remember that this had proven near impossible to do.  It seems simple - drill two holes straight through the round tube, but it was not simple.  I had ordered a Williams scissor jig to help me drill the holes.  That turned out to be the right tool for the job.  I did a practice round on the old cut off section, and it came out perfect on the first try.  So I got brave and tried it in the mag tube.

I used a c-clamp to hold the jig on the tube and then put it all in the vise.  A little oil.  A #31 drill bit.  3000 rpms.  And we have our first hole.  I took Sharps40's suggestion and ground down a punch to use as a center punch in the jig.  Center punched the bottom hole.  Lined everything back up and sent it through.  Then I pulled the jig off and used the #31 bit that was still in the drill press to recenter the hole under the drill press.  I clamped it in with the vise and made sure the #31 bit would slide up and down through the holes with no resistance, then I changed over to a 1/4" bit and drill the large hole for the screw head to recess into.

The holes lined up perfectly.  It took a little cleaning up with a needle file, and the screw fit perfectly.  But, you will notice in the pics that the mag tube end cap did not line up perfectly.  This was intentional.  I left some extra metal on the end of the tube so that I didn't have to be as precise with the location of the holes.  I knew the holes were lined up with each other, so all I had to do was remove a little metal from the end of the tube until the end cap lined up.  A few times of holding it up to the disc sander and it was perfect.  Note how bad the end cap screw looks.  Somebody chewed it up.  That somebody wasn't me, but I will have to fix it cuz it looks terrible.

Tools:  drill press, drill bits, Williams Sight/Scope Drilling Scissor Jig, center punch, c-clamps, vise, screw driver, disc sander

Cost:  $125 for the jig


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update #2  9/4/14*

The next job was opening up the forward barrel band.  I have used a Dremel before to do this, but I thought I'd try something different this time.  I took the cut off blank from the barrel and lathered it up with course valve grinding compound.  I ran a long screw through it and chucked it in the drill press.  Turned it at about 3000 rpms.  I ran the barrel band up and down on the blank as it turned, making sure to not let it get too hot.  Opening up the barrel band is a slow process.  Remove a little metal.  Clean it up.  Test it.  Remove a little metal. Clean it up. Test it.

I finally got it to where it would easily slide to the point I wanted it to.  I put the mag tube on the gun with the forward barrel band in place.  I then marked a hole where the mag tube end cap screw sits in the barrel.  I used the scissor jig again to drill a shallow hole for the screw to ride into.    Let me say, that jig is great.  I love it already.

With the forward barrel band in place, I slide a piece of braided wire through the screw hole.  I used a sawing motion back and forth on the wire to create marks for the location of the screw relief notches on both the barrel and mag tube.  It didn't leave a large mark, but it wore off a small patch of blueing which was just enough to get me on target.

I cut the relief notches with a small chainsaw file.  I went slow removing the material.  I was constantly checking for alignment and fit.  After a few minutes, everything went together.

Tools:  scissor jig, #31 drill bit, cordless drill, c-clamp, valve grinding compound, drill press, braided wire, small round smooth cut file, screwdriver

Cost:  none


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## Sharps40

I been usin my scissors jig for bout 20 years now.  Somma the best money I ever spent.  Even sawed one leg off short so I can get up closer to actions and frames with it.  

And, learned something new....two things.  Valve grinding in the band and marking the cross bolt location with wire instead of by eye.  Neat!


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update #3 9/4/14*

I have mentioned before that the trigger pull on this gun was atrocious.  At times, it felt like I was trying to pull a train with my trigger finger.  There is only so much that you can do with this trigger.  It is a slightly different design than a Marlin.  I think it's an overall poor design, but nobody asked me when they made it.

When the trigger moves with the lever, the sear remains in the frame and in contact with the hammer.  There is a spring that keeps the sear in contact with the hammer.  When the trigger is pulled, you are working directly against this spring.  This spring adds a good bit to the trigger pull weight.  Now this spring could be bent to reduce the force exerted(and thus the trigger pull), but then there is the risk of not maintaining solid contact with the hammer notches.  That is a recipe for an AD when dropped or bumped.  So, I did not touch that spring.  I just don't think it's safe or wise to do so.  So, I am really limited by that spring.

I did take a little 800 and 1000 grit sand paper to the engagement surfaces of the hammer, sear, and trigger.  I didn't change the shape of anything, just smoothed some things out.  

I take a little bit off the hammer mainspring with a Dremel and cut off wheel.  Just one coil on each side. They were short coils, not full width.  In my opinion, this spring was far too stiff.  The hammer had actually slipped on me a couple times while lowering it with my thumb because of the stiffness of this spring.  It was outrageous.  I think that might be why the striker portion of the firing pin was missing.  I think the hammer was striking it too hard and probably broke the retaining pin.  The hammer still seems to fall with plenty of authority.  I am going to test it with an array of ammo tomorrow.  If I have any light strikes(but I don't expect any), I will order a replacement spring and leave it alone.  Cutting the spring will reduce the trigger pull a bit, but it will also increase lock time (the time between when the trigger breaks over and when the firing pin ignites the primer).  Normally, I would leave the hammer spring alone, because a fast lock time is preferable.  So, cutting the spring is probably a wash as far as accuracy - lighter pull but longer lock time.

I used the muzzle radius cutter from Brownells to round off the edges of the muzzle.  The tool works good. Works pretty quick.  I took some 400, 800, and 1000 grit to the muzzle.  Then hit it with a little Oxpho Blue for now.

I chunked a cheap 3-9x40 scope on it to shoot with tomorrow to see what kinda ammo it likes, and see if we can get a decent group out of it.  Hopefully we will beat that 6" group from last time.

Once I figure out what it likes, I am gonna pull the scope off and put the Skinner Lo-Pro on and see where it shoots with the front sight I have on it.  I plan on putting a Williams fiber optic front sight on it, but this will help me determine what height to order.

Tools: Dremel, sandpaper, cordless drill, muzzle radius cutter, cutting oil, 

Cost:  $30 for muzzle radius tool


----------



## Sharps40

Predicting the 170s will shoot best.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update 9/6/14*

Well, I had a good morning.  Shot the Revelation 205, the ole Marlin 30 AW, and the .270 BAR.

I got them on paper at 25 yds and moved out to 100 yds with the Rev 205 and BAR.  I was disappointed with the BAR.  I may not have been letting the barrel cool down enough, I don't know.  It shot 1.75"-2.25" groups.  It is a sweet shooting gun.  I just think it should be more accurate than that.

The Marlin 30 AW did great with my hand loads.  You can read about it at the end of the original Lever Gun Project thread.  I shot it at 50 yds because of the scout scope.

The Revelation shot much better than it did before.  You will remember that the first group I shot with it came out to be around 6".  I tried several different kinds of ammo.  Without exception, it shot better.  The second best group came from Hornday LeverEvolution 160 gr.  That group was a round 1.5". The best group came from 170 gr Winchester PowerPoints.  Sharps40 called it.  That group was around 1 1/8".  That's a pretty dang good group from a cheap lever action with a cheap scope at 100 yds.  I'll take it.

The trigger is better but it is still stiff.  It registers between 6.5 - 9 lbs on my Lyman Trigger Pull Gauge.  That's pretty dang heavy.  It breaks pretty crisp, but it is heavy.  If the trigger was better, I could get even better groups.  I believe I shot about 20 or so rounds through this gun. Several different manufacturers.   No light hammer strikes, so I think our hammer spring mod is good.

The action on this thing is smooth.  I am happy with the way everything is turning out.  I ran out of time and didn't get to try to the Lo-Pro yet.  That'll be the next job.


----------



## Sharps40

Sure is nice when a plan and good basic hand smithing skills come together.  Welcome to the world of middle intensity home gunsmithing.  Once the basics are down, and the two leveractions show they are, you find out that the advanced home gunsmithing is mostly about making good jobs better and good cosmetics better.  Advanced home gunsmithing is about approaching with confidence (knowing it'll be accurate/reliable despite the armchair naysayers) and moving from slappin it cute to flogging it beautiful.  I'd say yer pretty much in the Advanced stage!  Nice work.  Go slay something juicy and tender with each of em.


----------



## hayseed_theology

Sharps40 said:


> Sure is nice when a plan and good basic hand smithing skills come together.  Welcome to the world of middle intensity home gunsmithing.  Once the basics are down, and the two leveractions show they are, you find out that the advanced home gunsmithing is mostly about making good jobs better and good cosmetics better.  Advanced home gunsmithing is about approaching with confidence (knowing it'll be accurate/reliable despite the armchair naysayers) and moving from slappin it cute to flogging it beautiful.  I'd say yer pretty much in the Advanced stage!  Nice work.  Go slay something juicy and tender with each of em.



Thank you, sir.  I enjoy it more and more.  Just wish I had more time for it.


----------



## hayseed_theology

*Update 12/2/14*

Man, it has been way too long!!!  I haven't worked on this gun in a while, and it has been driving me crazy.  Free time has been hard to come by, and what little I get has been spent deer hunting(aka squirrel watching).

I still need to sight the gun in with the Skinner sight to see what height front sight I need.  I figured I could do that without a magazine tube or forend, so I started pulling her apart again.

The next step is preparing the wood and metal to be refinished.  It is going to involve quite a bit of sanding as there is a good bit of pitting all over the metal, and the wood looks very rough.  I wanted to try draw filing the sides of the receiver to get them smooth, but the serial number is located on one side of the receiver.  Not allowed to file that off.

I started tonight out by sanding on the barrel bands and magazine tube.  You will remember that I nicked the forend barrel band with the Dremel cutoff tool.  Sanding that little mistake out took the longest time.  I worked on it for a while with 220 gr.  All the other parts got some 320 then 400 to prep them.  They will need to be prepped again before bluing, but the goal for this sanding was to get all the major pitting out.  Mission accomplished.  

You can clean up the head of a boogered-up screw a little bit by spinning it on some sandpaper.  They aren't "good as new," but it is a marked improvement.

I needed a dovetail fill block for the rear sight.  When I bought the gun, it was missing the rear sight.  Since I am using a receiver mounted rear sight, I needed something to go in that slot.  I had an old rear sight off my Marlin laying around.  It was missing the elevator and was removed to make room for the scout scope rail.

I took the Marlin rear sight and cut it off right in front of where it splits.  After a little filing, it was pretty well squared up and free of rust pitting.  A little filing on the dovetail portion of the sight and it was ready to slide into the gun.  It's not the prettiest thing ever, but it does the job.  And, it was free.


Tools: Magna-Tip Screwdriver set, hammer, brass drift punch, cutting tool, sandpaper (220, 320, 400 gr), sanding block, safe sided triangular file, flat file

Cost:  Free


----------



## hayseed_theology

Finally got around to taking a couple shots with the Skinner Lo-Pro installed.  It shot a little high even with the Lo-Pro down as low to the receiver as possible.  That means we are going to need a taller front sight.  That's not a surprise given that receiver mounted peep sits higher than a standard barrel mounted rear sight.  Also, this front sight was from a different gun.  

There are a number of formulas out there to help you calculate front sight height.  Google is your friend.  To figure the change needed, I multiplied the desired shift in impact in inches by the sight radius in inches and then divided by the distance of the shot in inches.  You will need to take precision measurements for this, not a tape measure or eyeball.  

My front sight was .500" tall, and by my calculations, I needed something about .040" taller.  I ordered a Williams Fire Sight from Midway.  It's backorder, but should be here relatively soon.


----------



## wranglerjoe1968

I have a rookie question.  Why would you chop a barrel?


----------



## bullgator

Great read! Thanks.


----------



## hayseed_theology

wranglerjoe1968 said:


> I have a rookie question.  Why would you chop a barrel?



It's a legit question.  There are several reasons, but the main one is that it makes the rifle much handier.  All other things being equal, a shorter rifle is lighter, quicker pointing, and more maneuverable.  I don't think I have measured the overall length of this gun yet, but it is probably 35-37" total.  My 7mm Rem Mag bolt action is about 47".  So this thing is almost a foot shorter than my primary deer rifle.  In a ground blind, a lock-on stand, in the woods, carried on the person or in a truck, a shorter gun is better.  The .30-30 isn't a hot load with a bunch of powder to burn so it does ok in a short tube.  Yes, I am sacrificing some velocity, but the old dirty-thirty is not a long range cartridge anyway.  Believe it or not, a shorter barrel is stiffer and will often improve accuracy.  I think the shorter barrel is one of the reason my groups improved so much on this gun.

When using iron sights, a shorter barrel reduces the sight radius and thus the shooters ability to place shots accurately, but since I have moved the rear sight to the receiver, I have gained a few inches of sight radius so I should be able to shoot it more accurately than before.  If you slap a scope on it, sight radius is not an issue either way.

Why chop a barrel down?  Honestly, it's a feel thing.  If you spend a day in the woods with a handy little carbine like this, you can't help but fall in love with it.


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## Sharps40

+1 on that.  Chopped fer the right reasons.


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## hayseed_theology

When I refinish the furniture on this gun, I will try to improve the wood-to-metal fit and finish.  As it stands, it is pretty poor.  I wanted to take some "before" pics that really showed how far off some of the wood is.  The fit of the recoil pad is pretty bad too.  It seems to me that the white spacers always shrink up on these old guns.  Is that the case?  If so, what causes them to shrink?

A new Pachmayr grind-to-fit 500B recoil pad and Pachmayr 1/16" white spacer came in the mail today from Midway along with a few other tools for an upcoming Remington 700 project.


----------



## roperdoc

That stock fit up is really poor!
Either a replacement or a really bad day for qc when it left the factory


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## Sharps40

Given the age, the wood has shrunk.  

If its not oil soaked, glass bedding with dyed acra gel will restore the fit and will not look objectionable when finished.

A fancier option, if there is meat enough in the wood for small pins.....fit brass shims to the endgrain of the wood, pin and glass in place (countersink the pin hole in the shim) then trim the brass shim down to the surface of the wood during refinish.

Either will ensure better fit and last for many years to come.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 2/2/15*

School and work have been keeping me pretty well tied up, but I finally got some time to pick this project back up.  I hadn't planned on it being a year long deal, but it is looking like it will be.

I wanted to work on the fit between the buttstock and tang.  The tang on this thing is different than a Marlin, and it uses a through bolt.  I decided to start trimming the wood down using a rasp.  I taped off the receiver so that the rasp would cause any major scratches.  I knew the tape would last long once I switched to sandpaper.  I wasn't worried about the sandpaper scratching the metal because it will get sanded a little before bluing anyway. I got the wood close with the rasp then switch to 120 gr and then 220 gr using a sanding block.  I was able to get the fit much closer.  I little more work while I am finishing it, and it should be in pretty good shape.

Tools:  rasp, 120 & 220 gr sandpaper, sanding block, painters tape, elbow grease

Cost:  Free


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #2 2/2/15*

I also got the chance to work on the front sight.  I cleaned up the dovetail cut in the barrel a little more.  I am happier with it now.  It is level across the bottom.  It is slightly undersized and a little shallow, which is what I believe you want.

The front sight comes a little oversized, so you have to trim it down with the file.  Do not open up the dovetail to fit a new sight!  Make the new sight fit the existing dovetail.

When filing on the sight, try to remove material from only one side of the base.  If you file on both sides, you run a greater risk of getting it crooked.  Because my dovetail was shallow, I was able to remove some material from the bottom of the base by passing the sight over a 10" Mill file sitting flat on the table.  Go slow on removing material and check it often.  When you think it's close, a little gun oil can help it slide right in.  

Generally, dovetail sights should press in from right to left, but mine decided it liked sliding in from left to right better.  Go figure.  I must not have cut the lead in correctly.  The sight sits just a little crooked on the barrel.  I think that's because I didn't have the cutting jig shimmed to account for the barrel taper when I cut it originally.  Live and learn.  It does not affect the sight picture at all, but I know it's not perfect, which bothers me.

The combination of the peep sight and fiber optic front sight is incredible!  It points so naturally!  I am really pleased with my choice on that.  I didn't shoot it yesterday.  In fact, I am not going to shoot it before bluing, because I went ahead and tore it all the way apart.  I am just hoping my math was right when I calculated the proper sight height.

By the way, that nicely cut dovetail in the barrel can also double as knife blades.  I drew blood on 3 different digits while fitting that front sight. Tap the sight back out when testing the fit, don't push it out with your thumb even though you can.

Tools:  Mill file, small hobby files, safe-sided triangular file, chalk, digital caliper, hammer, brass punch

Cost: $20 for the Williams Fire Sight


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## devilchild

Thanks for the post. I like to tinker with older or beat up firearms(not expensive or collectables lol) and appreciate the time and effort put in to documenting what you are doing. I learned a good bit and can't wait to see the finished product.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 8/19/15*

It has been way too long.  Life has been incredibly busy.  School destroyed my spring.  Work took my summer.  We are about to welcome our firstborn child into the world in the next week, so I have been spending my spare time on nursery projects.  This lever gun project is going on a year and a half.  That was not the plan.

Finally got a little time to work because a case of the shingles has forced me to slow down a little.

Just to catch up, the next steps are refinishing the wood and refinishing the metal.  I did some sanding on the smaller parts to prep them.  From what I have read, 320 to 400 grit sandpaper is about as fine as you want to go for a rust blue project. I was able to sand out some minor pitting on the small parts, but some of the spots actually appear to be casting voids rather than rust pitting.

The receiver shows minor but widespread pitting. Rather than sand it out, the best place to start is filing.  Draw filing is the recommended technique for filing out pits on a flat surface.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #2 8/19/15*

I used a Single Cut 10" Smooth Mill file for draw filing.  It's very important to have the right type of file for this, don't just use any old file.  This is my first time trying this technique, and I have some learning to do.  I got impatient and did a little cross filing which appears to have helped remove the pits, but it put scratches on it that will have to be worked on.  I think I am going to regret the cross filing. Draw filing leaves a smoother, more even finish.

I was afraid to do too much filing for the sake of the serial number.  Filing off a serial number is kinda frowned upon (read: ILLEGAL).

You can see that the receiver is far from perfectly flat on the right side.

The ejection and loading ports had some noticeable dings in them.  I decided to use a half-round needle file to sort of chamfer the openings and remove the dents.

I have some more draw filing to do, then it will be time for some finish sanding.  Then moving on to the barrel.


Tools:  vise, chalk, 10" Smooth Mill File
Cost: Free


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #1 8/23/15*

I continued draw filing the receiver over the weekend.  I wish I hadn’t done any cross filing.  I had to work a long time to get the filing scratches out.  Lesson learned.  The Pilkington’s Rust Blue solution recommends sanding to a 320 grit.

I tried sanding the receiver with 320 gr on a sanding block, but I don’t think the sanding block was very even.  Wrapping the sandpaper around the file gave a more even surface.  I sanded back and forth the same direction as I had been draw filing.  The 320 gr doesn’t damage the stamped numbers and letters.   So it is safe to go over the serial number with this sandpaper.  I went over the rest of the receiver with some 320 gr.  This sanding is not the final prep, so it is ok to leave some bluing behind.

Next I moved on to the barrel.  Here’s a good video from Larry Potterfield on polishing a barrel: 


The barrel had a fair amount of minor rust pitting towards the muzzle.  To sand it out, I began with 220 grit cloth backed abrasive.  This type of sandpaper comes in a roll.  I got mine from Brownell’s.  I used the 220 gr in a shoe shine motion moving back and forth down the barrel.  The factory bluing shows me where I have sanded.  I was able to get most of the pitting out with the 220.  There were some dings and pits that just aren’t going to be sanded out.  They are too deep.


Tools: vise, chalk, 10" smooth mill file, 220 & 320 grit cloth back abrasive, 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper, sanding block, sharpie
Cost: Free


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #2  8/23/15*

Once the whole barrel received a round with the 220, I moved onto 320 grit wet/dry sand paper.  Before I began sanding, I drew rings on the barrel with a Sharpie.  These rings will show me where I have been sanding.  For this round of sanding, I sanded lengthwise using a sanding block.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #3 8/23/15*

For the final round of sanding, I used 320 grit cloth backed abrasive.  For this round, I drew lines down the length of the barrel with the Sharpie.  As I polish with a shoe shine motion, these lines show me where I have been and where I haven’t.  If you aren’t careful with the sanding, you will flat spot the barrel or make it wavy.  I think I might have gotten the end of the barrel a little wavy, but we will see how it comes out after bluing.

I am not able to rust blue it anytime in the next couple weeks, so I put a very generous coat of oil on it and put it in the safe.  When it is time to blue, it will need to be rubbed down with bluing and rust remover then carded with a wire wheel and steel wool.


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## hayseed_theology

*Update #4 8/23/15*

I also worked on the grip cap.  Sometimes plastic grip caps and butt plates develop a sort of mildew, oxidation, or build up in the checkering or grooves.  I used synthetic safe gun scrubber and a dull pocket knife to clean out the checkering.  I cleaned up the edges of the white line spacer with some 800 grit sandpaper.  Everything looks as good as new.

Tools: pocket knife, 800 grit sandpaper, Synthetic Safe Gun Scrubber
Cost:  Free


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## hunterofopportunity

Mine had the broken barrel screw but the biggest problem I have is a problem with loading it won't cycle correctly, hangs repeatedly. Did yours have any loading issues, and if it did how did you correct it?


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## hayseed_theology

hunterofopportunity said:


> Mine had the broken barrel screw but the biggest problem I have is a problem with loading it won't cycle correctly, hangs repeatedly. Did yours have any loading issues, and if it did how did you correct it?



Mine did not have the feeding issue, but it is not uncommon in these rifles.  From what I've read, it is normally related to the elevator/carrier that lifts the cartridge up.  There is a plunger, spring, and e-clip that help the elevator function properly. From what I've read on the net, the issue is often with one of those small parts.  

Marlin lever actions can develop a similar problem, but the design is a little different.

That said.  I have not personally encountered the issue.  Just repeating what I've read elsewhere.


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## hunterofopportunity

Thanks for replying I'll check these parts next time I pull it down.


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## Sharps40

Looks great


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## guesswho

Hayseed, what file did you use for the draw filing of the receiver?  I'm going to redo my old Winchester and will be rust bluing it too.


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## hayseed_theology

I used a 10" smooth mill file.  I think it's a Nicholson, but I can't remember.  It is a single cut, which is designed for finish work.  That's what I others recommend.  Worked for me.  I will say that it would be better with safe sides and beveled edges to reduce scratching.


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## one hogman

NEAT project, I would not have the patience to draw it out that long, I want it to be done too soon mhope to see more it is entertaining and informative, thanks for posting this.


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