# Believers that don't go to church



## bullethead (Sep 19, 2016)

Who believes but does not attend church or official services, and why?


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## JimD (Sep 19, 2016)

Here are some of my reasons for having difficulty finding a church.

http://www.christianwarriorministries.com/index.php?itemid=9#more

http://www.christianwarriorministries.com/index.php?itemid=3#more

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?111054-When-did-Christians-become-pacifist

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?111226-On-submission-to-authority

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?91557-quot-The-Creation-of-a-Wimpy-Jesus-quot

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012...econd-amendment-and-the-duty-of-self-defense/

No wonder you guys down here think "we" as believers are crazy.


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## bullethead (Sep 19, 2016)

JimD said:


> Here are some of my reasons for having difficulty finding a church.
> 
> http://www.christianwarriorministries.com/index.php?itemid=9#more
> 
> ...


The last link is possibly the most brutal.


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## jmharris23 (Sep 20, 2016)

This oughta be a good thread. Feel free to post in the other forum if you think you'd get more answers.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 20, 2016)

I believe there is a higher power out there. I don't believe, however, that it conforms to the beliefs of most mainstream religions. In fact, I think if it is God, it would be impossible for me or anyone else to know what it thinks or wants. 

I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.


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## Bucky T (Sep 20, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I believe there is a higher power out there. I don't believe, however, that it conforms to the beliefs of most mainstream religions. In fact, I think if it is God, it would be impossible for me or anyone else to know what it thinks or wants.
> 
> I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.


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## bullethead (Sep 20, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I believe there is a higher power out there. I don't believe, however, that it conforms to the beliefs of most mainstream religions. In fact, I think if it is God, it would be impossible for me or anyone else to know what it thinks or wants.
> 
> I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.


I can appreciate that.


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## 660griz (Sep 20, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.



Amen!
I have had "spiritual" moments in nature.


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## kmckinnie (Sep 20, 2016)

*Preach on brother*



NCHillbilly said:


> I believe there is a higher power out there. I don't believe, however, that it conforms to the beliefs of most mainstream religions. In fact, I think if it is God, it would be impossible for me or anyone else to know what it thinks or wants.
> 
> I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.



That was great. Thanks for sharing that idea.


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## Natty Bumppo (Sep 20, 2016)

I think it'd be hard to be a true believer and not to want to attend church, at least once in a while, if for no other reason than to gain knowledge and understanding of the word of God with other believers. If you're attending a place where members are pointing critical fingers at one another, I'll suggest you visit another church.  There's plenty of choices and most will make you feel welcome.


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## shotgun (Sep 21, 2016)

I believe that one can worship in a deer stand or in a jon boat as well as in a church. Its not where you go but the intent and purpose of why. My problem with some churches is the waste and checks and balances of the money given by the congregations. Poor money management by unqualified people bothers me. I am not a Saint but I try everyday.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 21, 2016)

Natty Bumppo said:


> I think it'd be hard to be a true believer and not to want to attend church, at least once in a while, if for no other reason than to gain knowledge and understanding of the word of God with other believers. If you're attending a place where members are pointing critical fingers at one another, I'll suggest you visit another church.  There's plenty of choices and most will make you feel welcome.



I would be more of the opinion that if you wanted to learn more about God  as God actually is, you might want to try some personal interaction instead of relying solely on a 2,000 year-old book written on the other side of the world by uneducated folks, or going by other peoples' stereotyped opinions that they learned from other people. 

This is not a criticism of church. I grew up as the son of a preacher going to church every time the doors were open. Church has its purpose, and is a good thing for many people. Maybe it's not the answer for everyone, though. Church can be either a positive or a negative influence.

If there is a higher power out there, I would think of it more as a force that can manifest itself in many ways rather than just an old angry bearded gentleman sitting on a cloud, or a pleasant young bearded gentleman in a white robe toting a lamb under his arm.

Perhaps most of the organized religions are only seeing one aspect of God and forming their whole belief system around that, much like the proverbial group of blind men in a room each trying to describe what an elephant is by feeling only one part of it. I only know that any experience I have ever had that I could describe as spiritual has not been scheduled at 11 AM in a building full of other people. I don't know who or what God is, but I know where and when I feel like I have possibly encountered it.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

bullethead said:


> Who believes but does not attend church or official services, and why?



Me.  I don't go to church for a lotta reasons, many of which have been debated a bunch on here.  I find other ways to express my faith through giving and service.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

Sorry I missed this thread for 2 days, btw.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> ..... in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.



Nah, they have fixed this problem.  The modern church is all about the lights and the band, and folks wear shorts n t shirts to attend.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

Natty Bumppo said:


> I think it'd be hard to be a true believer and not to want to attend church, at least once in a while, if for no other reason than to gain knowledge and understanding of the word of God with other believers. If you're attending a place where members are pointing critical fingers at one another, I'll suggest you visit another church.  There's plenty of choices and most will make you feel welcome.



After having been heavily involved in church for a very long time, I threw in the towel about 7 years ago.  The further away I get from the local congregation the more comfortable I am with my decision.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

shotgun said:


> Poor money management by unqualified people bothers me.



A lot of these folks get a theology degree, or a seminary degree, then go out and try to run a church like a business.  This is where elders come in, and should be chosen based on qualifications.  However, I have seen elders chosen more based on their relationship with the head pastor then qualifications.


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## bullethead (Sep 21, 2016)

NChillbilly, your experiences, thoughts and words echo many of mine that I've shared in here over the years. Very relatable.


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## bullethead (Sep 21, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Me.  I don't go to church for a lotta reasons, many of which have been debated a bunch on here.  I find other ways to express my faith through giving and service.


I have always found you to be genuine and honest. Thanks


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

bullethead said:


> I have always found you to be genuine and honest. Thanks



I appreciate it bullet


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## Gaswamp (Sep 21, 2016)

I will say that when I was just a believer that church attendance wasn't important to me.  However, when I decided to become a follower church attendance became vital


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

Gaswamp said:


> I will say that when I was just a believer that church attendance wasn't important to me.  However, when I decided to become a follower church attendance became vital



Interesting.  I find a little of the opposite.  Not exactly, but, the more serious I got about finding the truth, the more frustrated I became with the local church.


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

More specifically, it was the local church's indifference that frustrated me.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 21, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Interesting.  I find a little of the opposite.  Not exactly, but, the more serious I got about finding the truth, the more frustrated I became with the local church.



I agree with this in the fact that the more you get closer to true Biblical Christianity, the more you see how un-Biblical most churches are.

It is hard to find a church that is true to the Word of God.


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Sep 21, 2016)

Churches often lament the lack of church attendance from teens and college students, often pointing the finger at parents for failing to properly train their children to show up and dutifully warm the seats.

Some things are seldom discussed:

1. In the last few years, some churches ...

Why Christian Parents are Losing Trust in the Church


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## JB0704 (Sep 21, 2016)

rjcruiser said:


> I agree with this in the fact that the more you get closer to true Biblical Christianity, the more you see how un-Biblical most churches are.
> 
> It is hard to find a church that is true to the Word of God.



Lols, when I saw that you replied I was a little worried......had some flashbacks from 6 years ago  

I know we disagree on my results, but I appreciate you pointing out common ground


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## Natty Bumppo (Sep 21, 2016)

Gaswamp said:


> I will say that when I was just a believer that church attendance wasn't important to me.  However, when I decided to become a follower church attendance became vital


This is very well said and expresses many of my thoughts on this subject.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Lols, when I saw that you replied I was a little worried......had some flashbacks from 6 years ago
> 
> I know we disagree on my results, but I appreciate you pointing out common ground





Let's just say, I'm trying to be more positive.  It is easy to criticize...everything has something wrong with it...especially churches/christian organizations.  I'm trying to do a better job of being positive.  I don't want my kids growing up to be critical of everything...and I feel that for the first 8-10 years of their lives, I've been too critical.


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## JB0704 (Sep 22, 2016)

Good insight RJ.  I think I could apply some of that wisdom myself.


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## rjcruiser (Sep 22, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Good insight RJ.  I think I could apply some of that wisdom myself.


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## StriperrHunterr (Sep 22, 2016)

NCHillbilly said:


> I believe there is a higher power out there. I don't believe, however, that it conforms to the beliefs of most mainstream religions. In fact, I think if it is God, it would be impossible for me or anyone else to know what it thinks or wants.
> 
> I know that if I was to go looking for God, I would feel much, much more likely to meet him/her/it on top of a mountain by myself or out in the middle of the woods or on a creek bank than I would in a stuffy building full of people dressed in suits passing a collection plate around and pointing critical fingers at each others' behavior.


This was my view for a while. Jesus' ministry only required a group of fellows and a campfire, who am I to demand, or expect, better? 

But then I lost all faith, so...but, hey, I still love hanging around a campfire in fellowship.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 22, 2016)

I am a bit perplexed by the term believer here.  How are you defining believer?  Is is someone who just has an intellectual knowledge, or is it someone who has a relationship?

There is a world of difference between the two


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## centerpin fan (Sep 22, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> How are you defining believer?



Believer = Micky Dolenz


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## bullethead (Sep 22, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I am a bit perplexed by the term believer here.  How are you defining believer?  Is is someone who just has an intellectual knowledge, or is it someone who has a relationship?
> 
> There is a world of difference between the two



Someone who believes that Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour as told by the stories in the Bible and worships him as such.
Or
Anyone that believes there is a higher power such as a Deity that responsible for all of creation and does not use an organized practice of worship.

I think "someone who has a relationship" needs some defining.


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## bullethead (Sep 23, 2016)

NE GA Pappy?
What do you mean by "someone who has a relationship"?


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## bullethead (Sep 24, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I am a bit perplexed by the term believer here.  How are you defining believer?  Is is someone who just has an intellectual knowledge, or is it someone who has a relationship?
> 
> There is a world of difference between the two


Inquiring minds want to know....


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## drippin' rock (Sep 24, 2016)

bullethead said:


> Inquiring minds want to know....



I know the answer.  What he means is you can't just believe. You have to believe believe.


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## Rich M (Sep 25, 2016)

A scripture comes to mind, 1 Corinthians 13:11

"When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

Gotta be careful with the whole judging one another thing.  

We are at at different levels and the only one we answer to is God.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 25, 2016)

there are varying degrees of believe.   Some people believe they will hit the lottery, so they buy a ticket. 

Some folk believe that the Grump will win in a landslide, or so they say.  From the odds I am seeing, there is a 72% probability that he will lose.  If they are true believers, they should go out and bet every penny that they can lay their hands on that  he will win.  I mean, borrow all you can, hock the car, the house, the retirement, every gun that they own. Everything.  They will be set for life if Trump wins.

That is true believe. When you are willing to gamble it all on the outcome.  When I use the term relationship, I am talking about someone who you can be personal with them.  Not just a passing knowledge or an acknowledgment of who they are or claim to be.

You have a relationship with your children, but you may know hundreds of kids on the little league team with them.  You have that relationship because you sought to develope it. To get to know your child, to know their interest, their likes and dislikes, and what their wishes are.  That is the kind of relationship I am speaking of here.


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## bullethead (Sep 25, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> there are varying degrees of believe.   Some people believe they will hit the lottery, so they buy a ticket.
> 
> Some folk believe that the Grump will win in a landslide, or so they say.  From the odds I am seeing, there is a 72% probability that he will lose.  If they are true believers, they should go out and bet every penny that they can lay their hands on that  he will win.  I mean, borrow all you can, hock the car, the house, the retirement, every gun that they own. Everything.  They will be set for life if Trump wins.
> 
> ...



So if people who really believe Trump will win bet Everything they are worth and more that they don't even have.....belief aside...where does that leave them if Trump does not win?
Belief isnt worth a nickel. 
I can only guess you have bet all+ in the Jesus candidate and are willing to accept much less odds than 28% chance of winning?

I agree with your own children vs other children analogy but how does that compare to a relationship with Jesus?
Are you claiming to know what Jesus likes and dislikes?
Are you claiming you know what Jesus's wishes are?
Are you saying here that you know Jesus, a figure that you have never met, never talked to, never have even been within 1900+ years of bumping into, as well as you know and believe in your children?

If yes to any of those questions, can you please explain to us how that can be? I... and I am sure we... would love to hear details about what your conversations are like, what his voice sounds like, what he even looks like would be incredible information.


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## NE GA Pappy (Sep 25, 2016)

I have no desire to play your game.  You asked me for a definition, which I did. 

It is my choice to believe.  It is yours to not believe. You will never convince me that I can't know what I know, and I will never convince you that I know it. I see no need for further discussion on this topic with you


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## drippin' rock (Sep 25, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I have no desire to play your game.  You asked me for a definition, which I did.
> 
> It is my choice to believe.  It is yours to not believe. You will never convince me that I can't know what I know, and I will never convince you that I know it. I see no need for further discussion on this topic with you



And this is always how these conversations end.


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## 1gr8bldr (Sep 25, 2016)

Hey Bullet, several things, mostly because my beliefs don't resemble any churches in my area. I would like to find like minded believers. That belief that the Trinity is not the belief that was first entrusted to the saints. However, "church" based on the 40 years of being in a baptist church, there almost every time the doors were opened, I am turned off on the fact that "church" often becomes a soap box to display our good deeds. It became to much to bear in lieu of what Jesus  has done. Everything is done for men to see, the church being the worst, making sure they exploit every aspect of everything done. It's human nature, I should not be surprised, only disgusted, having seen it in my own life, appalled at the site of it.


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## bullethead (Sep 25, 2016)

NE GA Pappy said:


> I have no desire to play your game.  You asked me for a definition, which I did.
> 
> It is my choice to believe.  It is yours to not believe. You will never convince me that I can't know what I know, and I will never convince you that I know it. I see no need for further discussion on this topic with you


I don't play games. All I ask is for claims to be backed up by proof. If you cannot honor that then I understand why you bow out.
A game to me would be "I have a relationship with an invisible friend, and he is the best hider in hide and seek. It is a game only he and I can play because I am the only one that can find him."
The game ends when you are asked about your friend.
Yeah you gave a definition, but your definition of relationship just differs from what the normal is. Life is much easier when you make up your own to fit. 

I totally agree it is an individuals choice to believe in anything they want to believe in.
I am not questioning your beliefs, I am holding you to your claims that take belief many steps further only because YOU made them.
I figured since you made them You would be the best person to ask about them. Why is the truth so hard for believers to provide?


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## bullethead (Sep 25, 2016)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hey Bullet, several things, mostly because my beliefs don't resemble any churches in my area. I would like to find like minded believers. That belief that the Trinity is not the belief that was first entrusted to the saints. However, "church" based on the 40 years of being in a baptist church, there almost every time the doors were opened, I am turned off on the fact that "church" often becomes a soap box to display our good deeds. It became to much to bear in lieu of what Jesus  has done. Everything is done for men to see, the church being the worst, making sure they exploit every aspect of everything done. It's human nature, I should not be surprised, only disgusted, having seen it in my own life, appalled at the site of it.


Very relatable 1gr8.


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## Israel (Sep 26, 2016)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hey Bullet, several things, mostly because my beliefs don't resemble any churches in my area. I would like to find like minded believers. That belief that the Trinity is not the belief that was first entrusted to the saints. However, "church" based on the 40 years of being in a baptist church, there almost every time the doors were opened, I am turned off on the fact that "church" often becomes a soap box to display our good deeds. It became to much to bear in lieu of what Jesus  has done. Everything is done for men to see, the church being the worst, making sure they exploit every aspect of everything done. It's human nature, I should not be surprised, only disgusted, having seen it in my own life, appalled at the site of it.



That "pickle" is so sour, is it not? Almost makes a man to consider "who then can be saved?" That seeing the "worst" of myself so easily in others, so prevalent, so undisguised and plain. It's almost as bad as seeing the "best" of myself, too.


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