# Might be confirmed panthers in Ga. soon.



## redneck_billcollector

In looking for the links to post about the studies with the released Texas cougars in north Florida that wandered up into Ga. back in the late 80's and early 90's I stumbled across this link.  It refers to the studies and talks about how the USFG might be transplanting some to south east Ga.      

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/02/02/panthers0202.html

The reason I am looking for the links, it would explain some of the panther sightings back in the late 80s and especially in the early 90s, the cats in the later study seemed to travel all over south Ga. with one making it to Screven Co. (up above Statesboro) and one making it to the central chattahoochee valley.  One also took up over in Grady Co for a little while.

http://blogs.augusta.com/node/2153

There is another link from Augusta about the same recent study in which Ga. looks like an area that is going to have Florida panthers before long.

Heck, maybe in my son's life time he won't have to go out west to hunt "lions" if the transplants (proposed ones that is) are successful.  It does bring up a couple of interesting questions though.  One I am sure that is on most folks minds is the effects on our deer population.  The imediate knee jerk response will probably be that our heards will be decemated, I personally don't think so.  I would imagine it would actually lead to a healthier heard, there are only a few areas in Ga. that the heard has not reached or exceeded the carrying capacity.  The panthers would no doubt take some healthy deer, however, I imagine the majority would be deer in a less than healthy condition.  Already there are thousands of deer/ car collisions in Ga. each year and the population hasn't suffered drastically because of them.  Panthers from Florida would also eat as many hogs as deer (in parts of Fla. hogs make a larger percentage of their prey than deer) and a deminished hog population would only help the deer, especially in the mountains where there is some serious competition between hogs and deer for the acorns.  I would imagine over time it would alter how we hunt deer, I imagine deer would react by being more active during the middle of the day, simply because that is when panthers are the least active and less likely to be hunting theirselves.

For those that think panthers would be a safety issue for those of us in the woods, I wouldn't be concerned.  Until cougars were voted off the list of animals you could hunt in California, there were only 2 confirmed lion attacks on folks out there for the prior 100+ years.  It was only after they were protected and their population grew to where there were more cougars than habitat did they become a problem.  I personally don't see that happening in Ga. or anywhere else in the south east, us crackers love to hunt, and I do feel that once there is an established, healthy population in the south, everyone and their brother will have a pack of hound dogs so they can hunt panthers, and I imagine the DNR will allow it at some point in time.  We hunt the fla black bear in Ga. down in south east Ga., with hounds yet they can't hunt them in Florida anymore.  

Those are just some of my thoughts.  I personally hope they do, we have some habitat in my part of Ga. that I am sure would be good for panthers, and quiet frankly just knowing (not speculating) that there is a viable population of them in the river swamps of the flint river would be neat.  It would make the woods seem a little bit more wild.  A little bit more interesting.


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## robbie the deer hunter

i have hunted for over 30 years and i hunt alot. i have never seen, heard, or talked to anyone that has seen one here in georgia. however, it is very possible that there could be panthers. it just seems like with all the people that hunt there would be more sightings plus how about all the motorist on the highway. shouldnt people be hitting them or at least seeing them?? i think the panther thing is just something for folks to talk about at this point!!


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## Nicodemus

robbie the deer hunter said:


> i have hunted for over 30 years and i hunt alot. i have never seen, heard, or talked to anyone that has seen one here in georgia. however, it is very possible that there could be panthers. it just seems like with all the people that hunt there would be more sightings plus how about all the motorist on the highway. shouldnt people be hitting them or at least seeing them?? i think the panther thing is just something for folks to talk about at this point!!





The program that Redneck Billcollector is talkin` about, is 100 percent credible. Those cougars were realeased in the Osceola National Forest in north Florida. A couple of them made their way up here. It`s no big secret, do a little research and you can read all about it.


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## robbie the deer hunter

*o.k. ?????????????*



Nicodemus said:


> The program that Redneck Billcollector is talkin` about, is 100 percent credible. Those cougars were realeased in the Osceola National Forest in north Florida. A couple of them made their way up here. It`s no big secret, do a little research and you can read all about it.


i understand that we might have 4 cougars in the entire state but what i am saying is that they are not an abundant wildlife animal in this state. no way!!! if so someone somewhere would see them on a semi regular basis!!


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## redneck_billcollector

robbie the deer hunter said:


> i have hunted for over 30 years and i hunt alot. i have never seen, heard, or talked to anyone that has seen one here in georgia. however, it is very possible that there could be panthers. it just seems like with all the people that hunt there would be more sightings plus how about all the motorist on the highway. shouldnt people be hitting them or at least seeing them?? i think the panther thing is just something for folks to talk about at this point!!



If I recall, one was killed on one of the highways over in s.e.ga. and either one or two was killed by hunters near the Okefenokee.  They know for a fact where the cats went, they all had radio transmitter collars on.  The one that I found most interesting was the one that hung out over in Grady Co.  that is in a part of the state that is heavily agricultural, one also followed the flint river on up past Albany.  This isn't based on folks seeing them, this is based on tracking them with radio collars.  I would imagine that these cats are what lead to many of the sightings that folks are claiming to have had during that time frame.  If you read the two articles I have posted links to, they mention their wanderings in Ga.  It was this study that has lead the USFW to present a study showing that the habitat is available in the south east.


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## Nicodemus

robbie the deer hunter said:


> i understand that we might have 4 cougars in the entire state but what i am saying is that they are not an abundant wildlife animal in this state. no way!!! if so someone somewhere would see them on a semi regular basis!!



And you would be correct. They are not abundant, even in Florida.


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## Rockett

I don't know how abundant they are now and I hate even saying this on here but I saw a black one in the headlights of our truck about 20 years ago in ambrose georgia on the back side of a farm.  The think cleared a 5 foot fence after standing there in our lights for 30 seconds.  Haven't seen one since but I saw that one!


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## jonkayak

http://www.floridaconservation.org/panther/pdfs/reintroduction.pdf


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## redneck_billcollector

That is the paper I was looking for jonkayak, I would be willing to bet alot of the sightings that folks talk about on this forum were some of those cats, heck, a couple of them wandered all over south ga.  That T-46 apparently hung out in Seminole Co. for awhile, that area seems to have been a hot spot for panther sightings on this forum too.


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## jonkayak

Hope it helps!


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## Ytka

The comparison between panthers and bigfoot seems pretty ignorant to me. I have know quite a few people that I completely trust (myself included) that have seen black panthers and/or cougars. I don't know a single person that claims to have seen bigfoot. The one I saw was no more than 20 feet in front of my truck, right in the headlights. My wife, mother-in-law, and I all saw it plain as day. 

I've hunted in this state for pretty close to 20 years and have never once seen a black bear. I guess they don't exist either.


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## bubbaofga

I saw one back in 88 or 89 here in South Ga. However I am literally right on the Georgia Florida line. And yes there was one that was killed in this area.
The idiot that shot it threw the radio collar in the river and then went around bragging about it. He got caught naturally.


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## longears

you should research the term black panther, before you post a thread.


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## bubbaofga

He wasn't saying black panthers, he said panther. I agree with longears.
Their is no scientific evidence of "black panthers" other than the ones Obama pardons.


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## redneck_billcollector

longears said:


> you should research the term black panther, before you post a thread.



If you are talking about me, I didn't say black panther, I said panther, big difference....like Florida Panther.  Panther is just a regional term for cougar, mountain lion, catamount, painter, etc....

There has never been one single documented instance of a cougar that had a melanistic phase.  Leopards and Jaguars do, but not cougars.  There have been some dark ones down in south america, but they werent black. Bout the only place you will find them (black panthers) are in big cities like atlanta.

If it was as prevalent as folks seem to think, you would think that at least one would have been killed or captured somewhere, especially where it is legal to hunt them (most western states), but there hasnt been one, ever.


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## NCHillbilly

I don't think people started thinking of panthers as being black until they saw melanistic leopards on TV and movies. The old people of my grandparents generation around here in the Smokies grew up when panthers were still fairly common here. They never for a moment thought that panthers were black-they knew what they looked like. It's the younger generations who grew up after the panthers were pretty much wiped out and formed their ideas of what they looked like from TV instead of the woods who see black panthers- or more like see black housecats, labrador retrivers, black coyotes, and bears. Like has been mentioned, there has never been a single wild black cat documented in the US. There was one black panther confirmed in Missouri a few years ago-it was a small tame declawed melanistic leopard that had escaped from its cage during a tornado and walked up on someone's porch and stayed there until it was killed. It's funny that Indians, early explorers, and settlers in the southeast lived for generation after generation without ever seeing a black panther, but in recent years, they suddenly appeared and are seen everywhere by the hundreds, but are never photographed, killed, or caught in a trap?


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## patchestc

Ytka said:


> The comparison between panthers and bigfoot seems pretty ignorant to me. I have know quite a few people that I completely trust (myself included) that have seen black panthers and/or cougars. I don't know a single person that claims to have seen bigfoot. The one I saw was no more than 20 feet in front of my truck, right in the headlights. My wife, mother-in-law, and I all saw it plain as day.
> 
> I've hunted in this state for pretty close to 20 years and have never once seen a black bear. I guess they don't exist either.




I'll be 50 in September, got my first shotgun at age 15.
have hunted ever since.  I have seen a black bear, and one
big black cat.  both on dixon memorial forest in ware county.

i wasn't fast enough to get a picture of the cat, but i saw it.


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## riskyb

here kitty kitty kitty


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## Quercus Alba

I've read a good bit about the study you mentioned. I believe that due to the results(wandering, shootings, etc.) all the cats were re-captured.


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## borknone

On Nov. 16, Dave Adams of Newnan was deer hunting with a muzzleloader on U.S. Army Corps of Engineers property along West Point Lake when he shot and killed a male cougar that weighed 140 pounds. The property was south of Hwy 109 near the Abbottsford community west of LaGrange.


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## jkoch

If the cats will help control the "song dogs" then bring them on!


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## mightymikehedman

I know we've had panthers in Laurens County since the seventies. At one time, they were eating a buddy of mine chickens and were getting pretty bold cause their favorite eating spot was on his hay rolls right near the road where he could easily see them. As far as them being a threat to people, I don't think an adult would have a problem, but I would worry about my kids and pets!


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## SgtMajMVJ

*Panther in Washington Co. circa 1995*

In the Feb. of 1995 a friend and I were hog hunting along the edge fo a swamp in Washington Co. about halfway bewteen Millegeville and Sanders Georgia along the river.
Many hogs, big problem for our hunting lease. Along a hard packed ATV trail we came across a freshly dead large adult doe that had no signs of blood or bullet wounds. The does neck just below the jaw bone looked to be mangled and wet with saliva and the does upper hip area on both side had what looked to be claw marks and ripped fur. To me and my friend it looked like the doe had been taken down to the ground from behind and then something bit it right on the wind pipe. We saw no tracks because the ground was hard dried and packed. No deer tracks or boot tracks either. I'm from Florida and figured it was a panther kill.
The doe was as limp and not stiff just like having been freshly shot. We did a visual look over the body and saw no other wounds. We left the doe there and proceeded to sucessfully hog hunt. The doe kill kinda added to the thrill since we felt we were not the only predators in the woods.
Large cats do take game down from behind and then go for the throat to cut off the breathing. Sure looked that way to me. I hunted that land for 5 years hard and never saw cats tracks etc. But what possibly could kill a large adult doe like that? Coyotes don't kill that way. A bear I doubt also.

Mike,

 Semper Fi!


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## BobKat

Iv never seen a panther but i know people that have. they are here but there probably arent enough of them to be saw on a daily basis. People have seen black ones also, if there are dark deer, and other animals why not a black panther? Although from what i have been told all of teh black panthers are in florida.


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## mightymikehedman

Normally, we hear them and rarely see them...I've only seen two, the first one back in the seventies. Back in the old days when I was a kid, we had an old run down shack in a creek bottom that the ole timers told us was haunted. They told us that a woman was hung to death in the front yard and you could still hear here screaming from time to time...LOL! Yep, we could hear the screams and untill I got up of age, I sho nuff believed it to be TRUE! Then one day I seen this cat...so much for the wise tales! LOL!
I seen my second one in 1990 coming back late one night, from a race near Augusta. He was on the side of the interstate, feasting on a deer. He was either very bold or pretty hungry cause traffic didn't seem to bother him!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been told that black ones are males & the brown ones are females...is this true? The one that my buddy seen was brown!


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## greene_dawg

Never seen one but my step dad swears he saw one between statesboro and swainsboro. I've never known the man to be a liar and he's not the type to make stuff up for the heck of it. There was also a write up in the Robins AFB newspaper while I was stationed there about one jumping the fence on the back side of the base. I don't claim either as gospel but I don't simply discout them either. Several years back I was hunting on the edge of a swamp in Hancock  County (near Mayfield) and I heard a cat scream and then pigs squeeling just on the other side of the ridge. I've never actually heard a cougar other than on television and that is exactly what it sounded like. Could it have been a bobcat. Sure, but it spooked me enough to get down out of my stand during the last hour of the hunt during a cold snap in the first week of November. I wasn't walking back to the truck in the dark that night...


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## dwhee87

I watched a documentary (I'll try to find it and post a link) that said there is no possible gene arrangement/sequence for a north American cougar/panther/mt. lion that will produce a black coat.


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## caseyb

I seen a big black cat and i mean big one whether it be panther or cougar it jumped a two lane road in front of me and my wife and father in law seen it on two more separate times and it was about a half mile from their house every time and this was in terrell county ga


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## Bob Shaw

Back in the 90's I had a cougar run across in front of my car on US411 near White. Yes, I'm sure what it was. I've also seen cougars in Florida, one was in the median on the Sunshine State Parkway.


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## BRIAN1

Who cares? If there are some in the woods then so be it. I am tired of all these posts with fake trail cam pics and stories of hunters seeing them under their tree stands. Some studies are probally credible, but in the whole scheme of things, who is really that interested in shooting them. I think they are endangered and should be left alone anyway. Just my opinnion.

Brian1


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## kbh123

I know for sure, back in 1999, in lafayette, ga, walker county, i witnessed two sets of tracks, one of which were as big as my fist, and a smaller set, about half that size. they were in the soft muddy area that had since frozen. i was deer hunting and was near am old dump site. they were for sure, without a doubt, a big cat of some kind.


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## crbrumbelow

An older cousin of my step dad had pics of one from about 1987-88.  It was in his driveway and "buzzard" (thats what we called him) said he had seen the cat on several different occasions.  Not sure how he got the pic but it left no doubt what it was or where it was taken.  We looked for that picture for a long time and cant find it.  During that same time a couple of calfs were found killed and looked like something tried to cover them up.  One in a overgrown ditch and one near where we dumped dead chickens from the chicken house.  My step dad swore there was a bear or two around also.  Never really heard of either around this area.


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## BuckysPro

kbh123 said:


> I know for sure, back in 1999, in lafayette, ga, walker county, i witnessed two sets of tracks, one of which were as big as my fist, and a smaller set, about half that size. they were in the soft muddy area that had since frozen. i was deer hunting and was near am old dump site. they were for sure, without a doubt, a big cat of some kind.



Was that old dump site near camp road? I have seen the same tracks around 1999.My grandfather swears he saw a big cat drink water from his pond back in the early eighties.I have also talked to a guy before that lives on camp rd. and told me of the old dump site and said he lives there.Also years ago in trenton at the walking track they put up lights because a big cat had been spotted.That made the news and paper back in the nineties.So who knows.One thing for sure something big is making those tracks.


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## wonderfvl

patchestc said:


> I have seen .....one big black cat.
> 
> i wasn't fast enough to get a picture of the cat, but i saw it.



1+

I saw one last month.  Not huge, but a sizable 40-50 lbs.  It did a 180 so fast, there would have been no way to get a pic.  

http://georgiamysteries.blogspot.com/2009/03/are-there-black-panthers-in-georgia.html

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/georgia/84002-big-black-cats-ga.html

http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=2107&cid=158

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2007/feb/25/big-cats-sighted-dnr-still-wants-proof/


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## wonderfvl

...and a video from someone in Alabama.

http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/black-panther.htm

Pretty spectacular footage.


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## Swamprat

Rockett said:


> I don't know how abundant they are now and I hate even saying this on here but I saw a black one in the headlights of our truck about 20 years ago in ambrose georgia on the back side of a farm.  The think cleared a 5 foot fence after standing there in our lights for 30 seconds.  Haven't seen one since but I saw that one!



Some folks need to lay off the juice....or Jimmy just left the corn out and went right for the crack.

I will concede that Georgia might have had a few running around from the  N. Florida experiment but I would think there never was a successful breeding population so those cats originally released are way past dead. 

Even in South Florida where there is somewhat of a fragile but breeding population you will probably find less people who have seen them in the wild than all of these folks in Georgia who claim to have seen them.

I have land surveyed pretty much all over Florida and I have only seen one wild one and that was in West Central Florida during the population expansion programs. Never have seen sign of them anywhere else.


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## Swamprat

dwhee87 said:


> I watched a documentary (I'll try to find it and post a link) that said there is no possible gene arrangement/sequence for a north American cougar/panther/mt. lion that will produce a black coat.



I had always thought South American jaquars were the only cats that produced a true black coat, while in the feline species they are not the same as our panthers or cougars or whatever you want to call them.


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## NCHillbilly

Jaguars and leopards both have a black/melanistic  phase, but they are not really true solid black-you can still see the spot pattern up close. And these are generally really rare even in areas where there is a large population of jaguars or leopards. Cougars/panthers/pumas/catamounts do not have a black phase, they are all tawny tan colored. Housecats are the only cats with a true black color phase.


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## daisy102998

I never saw the animal but I called the game warden back in the 80's to show him some tracks from a large cat he said they had release some panthers and that what it was was.  the track was in Dothan, Al.


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## Luke.Deer.Commander

Say what you want, but probably two or three years ago driving down Pine Level Road in Grady County near Shiver School one evening, a deer dead on the side of the road was being feasted on by some big cat and say what you want but i saw that cat jump into a tree on limb about 8 foot up... The cat was a blackish brownish color..


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## Poppy D

Okay I will jump into this, I myself have seen 2, 1 just past the bridge going away from the Coopers creek camp ground, My Dad and I were headed to work it was day light we crossed the bridge and as I started up the hill the Black cat came of the hill to the left and jump into the road and crossed within 20 feet of the truck, crossed and went to the edge of the woods, then turned and easied on up into the woods. The cat looked like it would easily go 125 lbs. Beautiful animal. 
2nd one was in Jefferson County, quick glimpse crossed in front of me and a uncle, on our hunting club.
I know what I saw. I have been a church going person all my life.


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## mattl5860

Back about '90 I was in a club near Thompson Ga. Deer season was in. The DNR came in to camp after dark and told us not to go back in the woods til we heard back from them. They had a pack of hounds in a dog box with them. They left and soon we could hear the hounds running and then baying. They came back 'bout midnight, didn't let us see it but they said they had darted a radio collared cat that had been released in mid FL 4 days earlier. They said it had never stopped traveling after being released.


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## fishinbub

I can tell you first hand there are plenty of places for them to hide out and plenty of food. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to hear that they are hear.


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## Throwback

Black panthers are everywhere. 
Black panthers coming out of my hair. 
Black panthers are after  me. 
Why won't the DNR believe?

Never seen an otter, or a bobcat, 
black coyote or feral cat. 
But black panthers I've seen two or three,
on the ground and in a tree. 

I saw one just the other day, 
in a barn sleeping on the hay, 
it took off before I could get a pic, 
man I tell you them things are slick. 

Last night I heard a woman scream, 
in the yard or so it seemed,
went and looked and didn't see a thing, 
It was a panther--not just my drunk neighbor Irene. 

Black panthers are everywhere. 
Black panters coming out of my hair. 
Black panthers are after  me. 
Why won't the DNR believe?


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## shakey gizzard

Throwback said:


> Black panthers are everywhere.
> Black panthers coming out of my hair.
> Black panthers are after  me.
> Why won't the DNR believe?
> 
> Never seen an otter, or a bobcat,
> black coyote or feral cat.
> But black panthers I've seen two or three,
> on the ground and in a tree.
> 
> I saw one just the other day,
> in a barn sleeping on the hay,
> it took off before I could get a pic,
> man I tell you them things are slick.
> 
> Last night I heard a woman scream,
> in the yard or so it seemed,
> went and looked and didn't see a thing,
> It was a panther--not just my drunk neighbor Irene.
> 
> Black panthers are everywhere.
> Black panters coming out of my hair.
> Black panthers are after  me.
> Why won't the DNR believe?



Has'nt DNR already darted a few?


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## Throwback

shakey gizzard said:


> Has'nt DNR already darted a few?



no


T


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## emtguy

read this months GON, great article in there....i have seen one panther on our farm years ago and by the way there are no black panthers...they are dark brown and may look black from a distance but up close they are all brown/tan color.


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## steve woodall

The only cougar im interested in.


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## emtguy

Poppy D said:


> Okay I will jump into this, I myself have seen 2, 1 just past the bridge going away from the Coopers creek camp ground, My Dad and I were headed to work it was day light we crossed the bridge and as I started up the hill the Black cat came of the hill to the left and jump into the road and crossed within 20 feet of the truck, crossed and went to the edge of the woods, then turned and easied on up into the woods. The cat looked like it would easily go 125 lbs. Beautiful animal.
> 2nd one was in Jefferson County, quick glimpse crossed in front of me and a uncle, on our hunting club.
> I know what I saw. I have been a church going person all my life.



What does going to church have to do with anything? Satan/lucifer/devil whatever he's called by can quote scripture, he did it with jesus 3 times and with eve once( even though he added one word...the word added was " not")
Heck he even went to a meeting in heaven and God ask him in lay terms " where have you been, watcha been up to lately?" 
So going to church dont mean a thing cause the devil goes to!

I do believe you though, im just givin you greif and its great you are a christian man...i go every sunday to.Need alot more men to get involved with church. ever notice how many women are in the churchs and how many men are in the prisons? LOL
Really i do know what you were trying to convey in your post, im JuST MESSING WITH YOU


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## Bowyer29

steve woodall said:


> The only cougar im interested in.



That's what I'm talkin about!!!!!


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## Tim1980

I know plenty of old timers that used to hunt cougars up in northern alabama.  Real rocky up in those mountains.  They raised BMC mixed with bulldogs.  I don't know how many they found, but enough to keep hunting.


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## smalljawbasser

on this thread alone there are 20 "people" (some are cousin's buddies or whatever) who have seen cougars, and 4 of them were black panthers.

ya'll need to open a season on them.  especially the black ones, you've got 400% more than any other place in the history of the USA...


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## HALOJmpr

They usually say they "believe" the panthers are in the everglades.  Simple fact is that I've never seen one in GA.  But I hunt and live just south of the GA line and I and others have seen them in N FL in just the last couple of years.  I'm willing to bet money the panthers don't know where the state line is if they are hungry.


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## Fat Daddy

I've never seen one but my wife and a neighbor have both seen one in Berrien County.
I would guess that a dark brown or even a tawny brown cat would look black in a low light situation.

Just watched a documentary on large bears in the north where a polar bear was killed in Alaska(maybe northern Canada).  This was supposedly hundreds of miles south from their normal territory.
Why's it so far fetched that a few cats can come up from Fla?
They don't know the difference between a GA swamp and a Fla swamp.  With all the development of once forested land who's to say where a native species will decide the grass looks greener.

Like I say, I've never seen one but I wouldn't be that suprised if I did.


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## Son

Early 1950's, saw my one and only Florida panther. I was a just a kid and was with my Dads hunting party. We were working our way into the Big Cypress and saw it running along the edge of a cypress strand. Every one of em said, it was a very rare sighting, even back then. In the 1960, had two run past me in palmettos in Central Florida. Richloam area. I didn't see em, but a friend at the truck saw both cross the road, and showed me the tracks. When I heard em running thru the palmettos, I thought it was a couple hogs. Havn't had a panther encounter since.


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## Supercracker

I've seen two. One in a WMA near Okeechobee and what I am absolutely convinced was one crossing the road here in Jacksonville. Everyone I spoke to insisted it had to have been a bobcat. But I've never seen a bobcat that would stretch all the way across a lane in a road and with a long tail.

A couple/three years before that I was shown a trail cam pic of a Panther from about a mile away. But it was before I knew there weren't supposed to be cats here so while I thought it was interesting I didn't get too overly excited. The guy who had it and his trailer are gone now. So....


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## 2011GADawg

few years ago I was hunting in shellman, GA and i shot a good sized hog  when me and my buddy went looking for it we heard that awful screaming noise and it scared the crap out of us we were back at the camp in a lot less time than it would have normally taken us later that night when my buddies dad got back he said he saw a panther getting after my wounded hog while he was in his climber across the bottom from my stand


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## redneck_billcollector

Here is a link from WALB-TV in Albany about a possible panther attack on a horse near Valdosta.  http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=12939604
I reckon it is a young male, I give them a few more years before a female makes it on up into north Florida, once a few do, we will have them here for good.  There was a female with cubs in Volusia County a few years back.


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## redneck_billcollector

I have been reading through the panther threads for fun this morning and one of the constants with folks who have seen plenty or heard plenty is that they stay in one small place, either in the woods behind their homes or on their hunting club.  Panthers in good habitat have huge home ranges, it stands to reason, they will take down a deer a week, if they were confinded to a small home range, such as the woods behind the house, there would be NO other wildlife there, they would have all been turned into panther poop.  In good habitat a male cougar, panther, mountain lion, etc... has a home range of over 100 square miles and a females range is slightly smaller.  With all that being said, the Florida population has more than doubled in the past 15 or so years, young males have been forced to move, cougars, panthers, mountain lions or whatever you prefer to call them are very protective of their home range, and more young males are killed by older males than by any other way, and this is counting cars too in Florida (between 10 and 15 are killed a year by cars down there).  There is no doubt that some young males are moving north and have even made it to Georgia, one has been killed here now, after extensive DNA work on the west point panther, there is now no doubt it came from the SWFla. population.  We are not going to have a resident population though until there is sufficient pressure on the female population and they start to head this way.

Other than food abundance, the major reason a male will establish a home range is that there is a female or two in the neighborhood so the can make some baby panthers. Study after study has shown that young male panthers will roam far and wide and show up in some unexpected places, BUT they also show that they do not set up home ranges because they are not finding females and they head on back down south in the hopes of finding love, but they tend to end up killed by an older, stronger male panther.  If a female shows up in north Florida or south Georgia, then we will start having home ranges here and panthers will once again be a regular part of our piney woods and river swamp ecosystems. My gut tells me it won't be too far off in the future, but just not now.  The furthest north a female has been reported is in south Volusia County Fla.  The Florida panther population is one of the most studied animal populations in the southeast and there is literally thousands of papers written about it and they just ain't got the females this far north yet, but maybe someday.


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## northgatrapper

how many bobcats do you see hit on the side of the road?


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## Nicodemus

northgatrapper said:


> how many bobcats do you see hit on the side of the road?





Not as many as possums, coons, or dillers, but probably about as many bobcats as coyotes. 

This year alone, I`ve seen close to a dozen gators spread out on the roads around here.


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## Throwback

northgatrapper said:


> how many bobcats do you see hit on the side of the road?



probably 6 to 8  a year. seriously. probably see that many live ones during the year while roaming around, too. 

So many (dead ones) I don't stop and look at them any more. in the last 6 months I can think of three off the top of my head just sitting here. 


seen two mink this calender year, too. 

T


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## redneck_billcollector

Dead bobcats on the roadways of south west Georgia ain't that uncommon.


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## shakey gizzard

Cougars are way to smart to get hit by cars! Even ALL the black ones!


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## dc410n1

*This one from  Monroe County!*

Monroe County


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## Nicodemus

That one has been around a while. Plus, there are no mule deer in Georgia. That is somewhere out west.


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## Throwback

dc410n1 said:


> Monroe County



It has to be true. It's on the internet. 



T


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## shakey gizzard

Throwback said:


> It has to be true. It's on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> T



So its confirmed?


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## Steve Thompson

In the 80's I had a very smart friend who lived in Shadydale - Charlie Nelson a retired engineer. He saw two lions moving around a field with unabstructed and good view. Charlie was very serious about this. My mother saw one crossing her yard on lick creek in putman county, called me ever excited and in shock.
 I have not heard of any sightings in either county since.


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## Backlasher82

redneck_billcollector said:


> Dead bobcats on the roadways of south west Georgia ain't that uncommon.



Must be those flat roads and higher speeds in South Georgia that gets bobcats flattened. I've seen quite a few bobcats roaming around up here in the mountains, I have yet to see one turned into a sail-cat on the road. 441 is about the only place you can get up any speed in Rabun County, I guess they just avoid it. Or maybe y'all have more traffic than we do. Except in the Fall of course.

I'm betting on the higher speeds though. I know for a fact that we have deer, bobcats, bear and pretty much every critter up here that all of Georgia has, except armadillos, and all I ever see dead on the road is squirrels. As I get onto flatter roads I start seeing deer,  coons, coyotes, etc.
Even possums are extremely rare to see squashed in Rabun.  

Point being, just because you don't see the road littered with dead critters doesn't mean they aren't in the woods.


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## struttinsouthern

thats a mule deer in the picture so im pritty sure last time i checked we dont have mule deer in Georgia or in Monroe county ...just sayin


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## redneck_billcollector

I reckon I need to be lookin' for a lease in Monroe Co. so I can harvest me one of those Jawja blacktailed deer, those things are rare as hen's teeth down here.


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## Just Jeff

I guess y'all ain't heard, The mulies are migrating south


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## Throwback

redneck_billcollector said:


> I reckon I need to be lookin' for a lease in Monroe Co. so I can harvest me one of those Jawja blacktailed deer, those things are rare as hen's teeth down here.




Don;t laugh, I have had people tell me that they saw them on their lease, as well as mule deer. one guy swears "dnr" stocked mule deer back in the 80's or whenever as a test. 


T


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## Nicodemus

Throwback said:


> Don;t laugh, I have had people tell me that they saw them on their lease, as well as mule deer. one guy swears "dnr" stocked mule deer back in the 80's or whenever as a test.
> 
> 
> T





T, there were rumors floatin` all over south-central Georgia back in the 70s, of all the mule deer that were stocked. I reckon we killed em all at night and just didn`t recognize em. They were delicious.


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## HALOJmpr

dc410n1 said:


> Monroe County



Monroe, Oregon maybe


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## NCHillbilly

Nicodemus said:


> T, there were rumors floatin` all over south-central Georgia back in the 70s, of all the mule deer that were stocked. I reckon we killed em all at night and just didn`t recognize em. They were delicious.


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## redneck_billcollector

I have heard those rumors too, had a buddy that swears they stocked them in Lee Co. back in the 70s.  He would dang near get in a fight when folks didn't believe him.  I would just sit back and think to myself that his belief about mulies ain't hurting nothing and just let him be.  He ain't computer literate and when I tell him I aply for the Kentucky elk hunt he thinks I am crazy.  Funny really, believes there are mulies hiding in the woods of Lee County yet thinks I am high when I talk about elk in Kentucky. Back when I used to mess with him though, I would ask him why the Hunting Regs didn't mention mulies he would never have an answer, I mean if the state spent all that money getting them here, wouldn't they address them in the regs?  Like becareful, don't shoot one or something?


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## BigBrett

I understand people are hesitant to accept panthers exist in any other fashion than escaped pets. that being said my grandmother was and still is the most honest, christian and straight shooting person i have ever known and she saw several. One her father shot in the 19teens'or 20s. She said they had chickens and turkeys in the yard, they had a high roof coop the turkeys roosted up top and the chickens lower. the roof she guessed was 8 feet tall. One night something got after the chickens and turkeys and her dad shot it, on top of the coop. It was a panther, she called it broomsage colored. She said it weighted 80-100lbs. People came to see it until it rotted.

The rest she saw where like everyone else brief and in a hurry. My Dad, Mom, 2 Uncles and many more I can't even remember have seen these animals in tan, brown and black colors. These sightings have occured in Glascock, Jefferson, Washington and Warren counties.

I have never seen one. My dad took me deer hunting one evening when I was 7 or 8 and at prime time when the sun was setting we heard a scream I can not describe. My dad always taught me move, breathe and walk quite in and out of the woods. When we heard that, he stood up real quick and said unusually loud "On you feet, boy. Its time to make tracks."


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## AccUbonD

I was just cruising youtube and came across this video about a horse being attack by something in Michigan and also a couple of folks talk about how the DNR up there says there is no cougars. I just thought it was kinda weird DNR is the same down here. Looks like it was posted in 2008 opinions might have changed since then.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/R3TMoOgI-yw?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R3TMoOgI-yw?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Hairtrigger

You guys see the trail cam pics on cover page of GON page?


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## redneck_billcollector

Yep, that were a bobcat, did you notice the markings on its ears?  Cougars don't have those markings, but bobcats do. GON even said it was determined to be a bobcat.


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## Hairtrigger

I did see the markings on the ears. Besides that, I didnt see anything that resemelbed a bobcat.


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## Throwback

Dino said:


> I did see the markings on the ears. Besides that, I didnt see anything that resemelbed a bobcat.



have you ever seen a live bobcat? 


T


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## Throwback

*The Black Panther Song*

The black panther song by Throwback (all rights reserved) 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(chorus) 
Black panthers, they're everywhere
Black panthers coming out of my hair
black panthers, they're after me..
Why won't the DNR believe?


Never seen an otter or a bobcat, 
a black coyote or a feral cat, 
but black panthers I've seen two or three, 
on the ground and in a tree. 

(chorus)

I saw one just the other day, 
in a barn sleeping on the hay, 
it ran off before I could get a pic, 
MAN I tell you them things are SLICK! 


Black panthers, they're everywhere
Black panthers coming out of my hair
black panthers, they're after me..
Why won't the DNR beeee-----lieve?


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## Hairtrigger

Yes sir T, alive and dead. Also saw one of those FL panthers they released a long time ago (in FL) in Fargo area.  Was on a bear hunt on the border of the Okefenokee swamp.They had biologist out there trying to get info on. (long time ago) Everyone bobcat I have shot in the last 20 years has had color variationlike pictured below. Do the bobcats in central and north GA have tan coats with little or no color? Might explain why they came to this conclusion


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## Throwback

I personally also think most of the "black panthers" seen are actually bobcats. I saw a B-I-G bobcat in the city limits of mexico beach a couple of years ago that was very dark in color. They will readily eat a deer. 

and the pics in GON were a little  more blurred than the actual pics. 

T


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## Hairtrigger

I agree T..most tan animals with their winter coat appear to be black IMO. I see above where this got off topic to "black" panthers and mule deer. Didnt see where anyone posted this link for original post.

http://panthersociety.org/sum.html


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## Miguel Cervantes

robbie the deer hunter said:


> i understand that we might have 4 cougars in the entire state but what i am saying is that they are not an abundant wildlife animal in this state. no way!!! if so someone somewhere would see them on a semi regular basis!!


 
We have more than 4, unless I'm just lucky and have managed to see two of them. One on a lease off of 441 near Rock Eagle, and one on the the river south of Macon, not too far from the Middle Ga. Airport.


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## Crispy

caseyb said:


> I seen a big black cat and i mean big one whether it be panther or cougar it jumped a two lane road in front of me and my wife and father in law seen it on two more separate times and it was about a half mile from their house every time and this was in terrell county ga


I believe it because I've seen the same. It was incredible how much distance it could cover in one bound. Black too.


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## Throwback

can someone please explain to me (using logic and scientific facts) how these black panthers exist here in such large numbers and not one single melanistic phase cougar has been EVER known to exist in captivity or in the areas that they are know to be? 

T


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## Crispy

Throwback said:


> can someone please explain to me (using logic and scientific facts) how these black panthers exist here in such large numbers and not one single melanistic phase cougar has been EVER known to exist in captivity or in the areas that they are know to be?
> 
> T


Can't explain it scientifically but know what I saw. Of the two black ones that I've seen, one was dead and laying on the edge of I-75 between Sarasota and Venice, Fl. It was pure black (could see a blue sheen coming off of the fur in the sunlight) and way too big to be a house cat. One thing that really sticks in my mind is how long and densely furred it's tail was. I wanted to stop and either retreive it or phone it in to the DNR but I was on my way to work, the traffic was too heavy and I didn't have a phone with me.

I wonder if it is possible that we are seeing Jaguar? I seem to remember reading somewhere that, in the past, Jaguar did inhabit parts of North America. Not sure though.
Bill


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## redneck_billcollector

Crispy said:


> Can't explain it scientifically but know what I saw. Of the two black ones that I've seen, one was dead and laying on the edge of I-75 between Sarasota and Venice, Fl. It was pure black (could see a blue sheen coming off of the fur in the sunlight) and way too big to be a house cat. One thing that really sticks in my mind is how long and densely furred it's tail was. I wanted to stop and either retreive it or phone it in to the DNR but I was on my way to work, the traffic was too heavy and I didn't have a phone with me.
> 
> I wonder if it is possible that we are seeing Jaguar? I seem to remember reading somewhere that, in the past, Jaguar did inhabit parts of North America. Not sure though.
> Bill



As for the dead one on the side of the road, especially one as heavily traveled as that one, it would have been reported somewhere.  Every panther killed on the highways in florida are collected by the DNR and a necropsy is done, if it were in fact a "black" panther or a melenistic jaguar it would have been all over the news and you would be able to find mention of it in at least one journal.  The florida panther  is probably one of the most studied large mammal populations in the world and were there EVER any melenistic ones born that would be huge news, while I am not saying the biologist see every one born, they do survey the vast majority of the litters and take DNA samples and other vitals.

Jaguars do occur from time to time in the southwest, namely Arizona and New Mexico.  There are historical records of them being found as far north as the grand canyon and as far east as western Louisianna (the later in the 19th century).


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## redneck_billcollector

Dino said:


> Yes sir T, alive and dead. Also saw one of those FL panthers they released a long time ago (in FL) in Fargo area.  Was on a bear hunt on the border of the Okefenokee swamp.They had biologist out there trying to get info on. (long time ago) Everyone bobcat I have shot in the last 20 years has had color variationlike pictured below. Do the bobcats in central and north GA have tan coats with little or no color? Might explain why they came to this conclusion



Trapped many a bobcat in South Georgia(up in the 100s over the years) and plenty of them had very faint spots and some were without spots at all.  Also hunted bobcats in northwest Florida with hounds all during the 70's with my grandfather (he hunted them at least 4 or so times a week for the last 25 or so years of his life) and killed many a cat that was weakly spotted or no really visible spots and tan in color.  Alot of cats that aren't prime have weak spots.  (for years and years I trapped for my extra money and even did it professionally back in the late 70s and cats and otter were my primary targeted animals for fur).


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## mauk trapper

I've got a panther that lives a few doors down.


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## mauk trapper

Wait she's a cougar


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## Crispy

redneck_billcollector said:


> As for the dead one on the side of the road, especially one as heavily traveled as that one, it would have been reported somewhere.  Every panther killed on the highways in florida are collected by the DNR and a necropsy is done, if it were in fact a "black" panther or a melenistic jaguar it would have been all over the news and you would be able to find mention of it in at least one journal.  The florida panther  is probably one of the most studied large mammal populations in the world and were there EVER any melenistic ones born that would be huge news, while I am not saying the biologist see every one born, they do survey the vast majority of the litters and take DNA samples and other vitals.
> 
> Jaguars do occur from time to time in the southwest, namely Arizona and New Mexico.  There are historical records of them being found as far north as the grand canyon and as far east as western Louisianna (the later in the 19th century).



Evidently, they didn't find it because I know it was there. It was laying on the outside edge of the road. I was riding passenger. We were on the outside lane and I got a real good look at it. The only other animals that it could have been are a dog, hog, deer, otter, bobcat or a house cat and I know for a fact that it was none of those animals. In case anyone is wondering....no, I have never seen an alien or a sasquatch but I have seen two black panthers or Jaguar  
I won't mention it again.....


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