# Children and lords supper



## dixie706 (Apr 2, 2012)

My question is should or can a child be allowed  to  partake in  the lords supper at church?


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## JB0704 (Apr 2, 2012)

What are the qualifiers listed for participation?  It confuses me.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 2, 2012)

What do you mean by "child"?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 3, 2012)

I've always practiced, you can take communion when you get saved and have been baptized, no matter the age.

We, as baptists (some of us), don't use wine though.


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## dixie706 (Apr 3, 2012)

Im refering to a child that you are raising in your home that is unsaved but prolly believes in jesus more than some adults, the bible says in 1 corith that no one unworthy can partake but who is really worthy, and last jesus said let all children come unto me,, i was just told it was wrong in church just seeing what yall think


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2012)

The Lord's supper is for baptized believers only and so if a child is saved and baptized then yes they can participate. The Lord's supper is a memorial done to remember the shed blood and Christ broken body for our sin debt.


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## Mud Minnow (Apr 3, 2012)

My daughter is 7 and attending Catechism classes at the Catholic church. In my faith there are 7 holy sacraments. She will do her first communion next year. Right now she does not recieve the Body and Blood at church and will not until she completes her sacrament of the Eucharist. My wife is Baptist and we also attend a Baptist Church. When they hold Communion I ask my daughter to not take part in recieving the body and blood until she has completed her Sacrament in the Catholic church.


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## allenww (Apr 3, 2012)

> Im refering to a child that you are raising in your home that is unsaved but prolly believes in jesus more than some adults, the bible says in 1 corith that no one unworthy can partake but who is really worthy, and last jesus said let all children come unto me,, i was just told it was wrong in church just seeing what yall think
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mud Minnow (Apr 3, 2012)

So you were told by people in a church that it was wrong? You need to focus on YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Christ. Do the best you can, read your Bible and follow your heart to raise you children the best way you know how.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 3, 2012)

Do as your Church asks, and if you disagree search for another church.Contact a Deacon if there is any confusion as to what the Church believes.


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## dixie706 (Apr 3, 2012)

Well it is not so much as i disagree but this is something that just came up and i never thought about it and can see both sides to the question . I have 3 children ages 11,8 ,6 and if they were to ask about it i want to be able to give the correct biblical answer


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## JB0704 (Apr 3, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> I have 3 children ages 11,8 ,6 and if they were to ask about it i want to be able to give the correct biblical answer



Everybody is different when it comes to raising their kids.  You are the only expert on your children.  For me, I have an 11 yr old and a 3 yr old.  The 3 yr old is obviously too young to understand faith.  The 11 yr old is somewhat of a zealot (I think he is rebelling against me by doing that).  I let him decide for himself as far as the timing of his faith is concerned.  If he wanted communion I would make sure he read and understood it, the implications, etc.  But it is his choice, not mine.  But again, that is just my approach as I believe it is an individual exercise and his faith must be his own.


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2012)

Just to make a point here but not start an argument: Catholic and Baptist communion have absolutely nothing in common. To try to compare the two is like comparing apples with oranges.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Just to make a point here but not start an argument: Catholic and Baptist communion have absolutely nothing in common. To try to compare the two is like comparing apples with oranges.



What is the difference other than Baptist using grape juice instead of wine. I never unstood why they do that. It's not biblical. We use to only have communion once a month in my Baptist church. I think Catholics have communion every Sunday.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What is the difference other than Baptist using grape juice instead of wine. I never unstood why they do that. It's not biblical.


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## JB0704 (Apr 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What is the difference other than Baptist using grape juice instead of wine. I never unstood why they do that. It's not biblical.



I have sat through classes where well respected and highly educated theology professors insisted that Jesus' wedding wine was non-alcoholic.  People all have reasons for believing the way they do.  Apparently the professors were Baptists.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What is the difference other than Baptist using grape juice instead of wine. I never unstood why they do that. It's not biblical. We use to only have communion once a month in my Baptist church. I think Catholics have communion every Sunday.



Many Baptist churches use real wine....and a lot of them don't because their could be alcoholics in the congregation that wouldn't be able to participate....but the answer to your question as to the difference, I'm sure someone will come along and answer that..I have no interest in that discussion.


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## Mud Minnow (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Just to make a point here but not start an argument: Catholic and Baptist communion have absolutely nothing in common. To try to compare the two is like comparing apples with oranges.



If that was in reponse to my post... i'm not comparing the two. IMO Jesus had wine at the last supper, that's what the bible says, not a non-alcoholic drink. Sorry to drift from the point here.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 3, 2012)

With regard to frequency of Communion, there is no argument that Christians received It more frequently in the early centuries of Christianity than in recent centuries. The question, then, is: is this because there has been a falling away from the early, correct practice? Or are there good reasons why the Church has modified the practice of the Early Christians?

The above is a quote from a historical perspective of the frequency of Communion.
1st thru 4 century historians wrote of communion being practices each and every Lord's day within the church.

Can there possibly be a valid reason to not do it as often today?
We sing ever Lord's day, we preach the word every Lord's day!


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## groundhawg (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> The Lord's supper is for baptized believers only and so if a child is saved and baptized then yes they can participate. The Lord's supper is a memorial done to remember the shed blood and Christ broken body for our sin debt.



Please share where you received this information and where it is backed up in the Bible.
Thanks.


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## dixie706 (Apr 3, 2012)

I to would like to read where it says you have to be baptized and saved,,the only passage i found is 1 corinthians 11/ 27 tru 29 where it speaks of doing unworthily. I talked to a friend today who made a good point where if the child is old enough and wanting to know about the meaning then that child may be ready to know what jesus did on the cross and why and that may be the first step to that childs salvation,,thanks for all the replys it has been a interesting topic


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2012)

groundhawg said:


> Please share where you received this information and where it is backed up in the Bible.
> Thanks.



1st Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 

In remembrance indicates a memorial. Now if you are Catholic you think totaly different about what the Lord's supper means.


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## Mako22 (Apr 3, 2012)

Mud Minnow said:


> If that was in reponse to my post... i'm not comparing the two. IMO Jesus had wine at the last supper, that's what the bible says, not a non-alcoholic drink. Sorry to drift from the point here.



Yes it was spurred by your post but I never said anything about wine or grape juice and that was not the focus of my post. All I was saying is that Baptist and Catholics hold to two completely different views of what communion means, they are not any where near the same. Now I am Baptist and I know for a fact from studying the bible that Jesus never drank or used wine. If you would like to argue the point with me then go back threw my 4000+ post and find one of the post where I argued the point because at this point on this site I am done with the subject.


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## BrowningFan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP .... Great question. I'm a Baptist and never really thought about it. I say explain why you take communion and maybe your kid will understand and want to get saved. If they are not saved I say explain to them why they shouldn't. I just wouldn't my child walking around thinking they are saved because they go through some memorial act. 


As far as wine vs grape juice ????? That's a whole other topic but I will say I don't agree with 99% of the bretheren.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 3, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> Well it is not so much as i disagree but this is something that just came up and i never thought about it and can see both sides to the question . I have 3 children ages 11,8 ,6 and if they were to ask about it i want to be able to give the correct biblical answer



I didn't allow my daughers to partake until they were saved.They never asked why or why not, so I guess I was lucky with the first two.I have a four year old that may ask that one day, and I'll GET to explain about the body and the blood and what Jesus did for us and what it means to really commune with Him.
 Just curious...Any of you have footwashing with communion?


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## Ronnie T (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> Yes it was spurred by your post but I never said anything about wine or grape juice and that was not the focus of my post. All I was saying is that Baptist and Catholics hold to two completely different views of what communion means, they are not any where near the same. Now I am Baptist and I know for a fact from studying the bible that Jesus never drank or used wine. If you would like to argue the point with me then go back threw my 4000+ post and find one of the post where I argued the point because at this point on this site I am done with the subject.



I believe I disagree with your facts.
I believe Jesus drank wine. John came eating weird food and no wine, and they called him a demon..  They called Jesus a drunkard because he drank wine and performed miracles.

Matthew 11:
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”


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## groundhawg (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodsman69 said:


> 1st Corinthians 11:25
> After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
> 
> In remembrance indicates a memorial. Now if you are Catholic you think totaly different about what the Lord's supper means.



Sorry but nothing in the above about requirements such as being baptized, or even saved for that matter.....


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## groundhawg (Apr 3, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> I to would like to read where it says you have to be baptized and saved,,the only passage i found is 1 corinthians 11/ 27 tru 29 where it speaks of doing unworthily. I talked to a friend today who made a good point where if the child is old enough and wanting to know about the meaning then that child may be ready to know what jesus did on the cross and why and that may be the first step to that childs salvation,,thanks for all the replys it has been a interesting topic



I agree.  Once the child understands what is being done and why then I feel they should be allowed to receive the "Lord's Supper".


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## mtnwoman (Apr 3, 2012)

Artfuldodger said:


> What is the difference other than Baptist using grape juice instead of wine. I never unstood why they do that. It's not biblical. We use to only have communion once a month in my Baptist church. I think Catholics have communion every Sunday.



Well if you are saved and 14, then drinking alcohol is illegal....God says to also abide by the law of the land.

It's a representative of the blood, whether it be grape juice or wine, it isn't blood.....just a symbol of.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 3, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> I to would like to read where it says you have to be baptized and saved,,the only passage i found is 1 corinthians 11/ 27 tru 29 where it speaks of doing unworthily. I talked to a friend today who made a good point where if the child is old enough and wanting to know about the meaning then that child may be ready to know what jesus did on the cross and why and that may be the first step to that childs salvation,,thanks for all the replys it has been a interesting topic



Well where I get that from, is all the disciples were saved and baptized.....I'm going by that just following suit. I guess besides Jesus, I follow what the disciples went thru and try to follow their examples also, after all they were Jesus first students...should we follow what they do, too, as we read their writings in the Bible?


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## Whiteeagle (Apr 4, 2012)

Just my opinion, You try to teach a child to believe something it cannot see, and forbid it to participate in something it can see....kind of a hyprocisy to me. Jesus said "as often as you do this, do in remembrance of ME". What is left for the child to remember? My King James Bible says "suffer the little children and forbid them not" and teaches us to "have the FAITH of a CHILD"! No, I am not a Preacher, but I love Christ and believe he died for "ALL" of us, not just adults!


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## hobbs27 (Apr 4, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Well where I get that from, is all the disciples were saved and baptized....



This brings up an interesting question...Were they saved before the blood was shed, and if so are you including Judas which Jesus allowed to partake in the last supper knowing he had a demon?


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## allenww (Apr 4, 2012)

*Were they saved?*

Yes, and yes. 

I can find nothing that says Judas was posessed when Jesus called him for service. 

wa


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## hobbs27 (Apr 4, 2012)

allenww said:


> Yes, and yes.
> 
> I can find nothing that says Judas was posessed when Jesus called him for service.
> 
> wa




So you believe there is another way to salvation other than the shed blood of Christ?


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## groundhawg (Apr 4, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Well where I get that from, is all the disciples were saved and baptized.....I'm going by that just following suit. I guess besides Jesus, I follow what the disciples went thru and try to follow their examples also, after all they were Jesus first students...should we follow what they do, too, as we read their writings in the Bible?



Nothing Biblical to support the idea that the disciples were baptized.  We know of course that John baptized our Lord Jesus Christ but prior to the last supper nothing was ever said about any of the disciples being baptized.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 4, 2012)

groundhawg said:


> Nothing Biblical to support the idea that the disciples were baptized.  We know of course that John baptized our Lord Jesus Christ but prior to the last supper nothing was ever said about any of the disciples being baptized.



The Bible doesn't say they went to the toilet out in the desert either.  But I bet they did.


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## barryl (Apr 4, 2012)

1 Cor. 11 KJV 1611 should answer about any question concerning who is or isn't worthy to take part in the Lords supper.


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## Madman (Apr 4, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> My question is should or can a child be allowed  to  partake in  the lords supper at church?



Great question, I have waxed and waned for several years.  Part of me looks to the Holy Scriptures and the church for the perfect answer, another part of me tried to be more …I don’t know something else.

My denomination teaches that any baptized Christian is welcome at the Lord's table. The baptism part has never been a problem in my family as both of my sons were baptized as infants.  I struggled with whether someone who has not made their own confession, i.e. confirmation, should receive.

I yield to my church; only baptized Christians should be communicated.


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## dixie706 (Apr 4, 2012)

This whole question started, when the sunday school leader brought up that people was allowing the children to do it and it was wrong. Im the type of person who wants to know what the bible says. I always try to trust in the lord and not man.


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## Madman (Apr 4, 2012)

dixie706 said:


> This whole question started, when the sunday school leader brought up that people was allowing the children to do it and it was wrong. Im the type of person who wants to know what the bible says. I always try to trust in the lord and not man.



Well my friend it appears you have a problem.  I see nowhere that the Holy Scriptures say one way or another.

So either way you are following the view of man.

God's peace.


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## groundhawg (Apr 4, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The Bible doesn't say they went to the toilet out in the desert either.  But I bet they did.




Oh my gosh, if I had only thought of that.  Guess that proves just how wrong I was.


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## thedeacon (Apr 4, 2012)

Here again we are overstudying and overthinking a simple subject. The scriptures have already been stated here so no need to repeat them.
The Lords Supper is for a specific reason, A Memorial to the death, the offerage of the blood and body of Jesus Christ. We all know that. 
Now, who parttakes of it? Anyone who is worthy to partake of it is the answer. 
Is a child worthy? Could be, like someone said, moreso than most adults.
I don't think God is in heaven looking down on a child for taking the Lords Supper.
Although!!!! I am a member of the Chruch of Christ and we do partake of the Lords Supper every sunday, I feel lost if I do not have the oppertunity to take it. But, a few Sundays ago someone in front of me made a game out of making sure each one of his young kids got a little sip out of the cup.
To me that is wrong and it is disrespecful to God to dole out his blood to young kids that don't understand what is going on. Not wrong for the child but for the adult that is not teaching his kids a strong lesson about God and his sacrifice.
The Lords Supper is sacred and not to be taken lightly.[/COLOR
The plate is passed to every single soul in the building and we do not moniter who does and who does not take it, we will not question anyone that does. That is something that has to come from your own heart. It is not left to us to decide who takes and who does not. 
If you child takes the Lords Supper it is left to you to teach the meaning of what that child is doing and yours alone.[/COLORGod Bless


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## Madman (Apr 6, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> The Lords Supper is for a specific reason, A Memorial to the death, the offerage of the blood and body of Jesus Christ. We all know that.



Here in lies the problem.  Some of us see it differently.


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## thedeacon (Apr 6, 2012)

Madman said:


> Here in lies the problem.  Some of us see it differently.



In what way?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 7, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> This brings up an interesting question...Were they saved before the blood was shed, and if so are you including Judas which Jesus allowed to partake in the last supper knowing he had a demon?



They were all baptized, yes.  Judas was an 'elect' (puppet) of God. I don't doubt that Judas was forgiven and is in heaven. Judas was used like Moses, or Jonah, that's all or Simon Peter.

If Judas hadn't kissed Christ would everything else have fallen in place as predestined? Would things have been eternally different, or do you believe that was God's plan for Jesus to die on the cross? and Judas was just the catylist?


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## mtnwoman (Apr 7, 2012)

Mud Minnow said:


> If that was in reponse to my post... i'm not comparing the two. IMO Jesus had wine at the last supper, that's what the bible says, not a non-alcoholic drink. Sorry to drift from the point here.



Ok let's say it is wine. You have a 12 yr old child that is saved and wants to receive communion. You gonna give that child wine, being against the law? Do you believe that buried with Christ in baptism is not really baptism unless you are buried in a place where someone has to roll the stone away? It's all symbolic....it's of the heart, not of the flesh.

Am I really crusified with Christ or am I dunked in the water and then risen with Christ, in baptism? in a pool, in a tank, in a river, in a tomb? It's only symbolic.....it's nothing of the flesh.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 7, 2012)

groundhawg said:


> Nothing Biblical to support the idea that the disciples were baptized.  We know of course that John baptized our Lord Jesus Christ but prior to the last supper nothing was ever said about any of the disciples being baptized.



The disciples were baptized. Why wouldn't they be? They baptized other people. It's in Matthew.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 7, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The Bible doesn't say they went to the toilet out in the desert either.  But I bet they did.



Behind a bush, or a tree, or a cactus.....forty years in  the desert? Yep they went.

Tell us about your hunting trip....well let's see....I sneaked up on the tree stand, slide on up in there, (unwashed camos for about 4 yrs lol) then I ate some deer jerky, and a couple of brewskys. Then I had to go, so I went as quietly as I could. But I was only there for 45 minutes before I had to go, not forty years.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 7, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> They were all baptized, yes.  Judas was an 'elect' (puppet) of God. I don't doubt that Judas was forgiven and is in heaven. Judas was used like Moses, or Jonah, that's all or Simon Peter.
> 
> If Judas hadn't kissed Christ would everything else have fallen in place as predestined? Would things have been eternally different, or do you believe that was God's plan for Jesus to die on the cross? and Judas was just the catylist?



Baptism is a nice public gesture, but is not necessary to salvation.Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord, when He decides to offer the grace and you decide to accept it. Once this is done you become one piece of the body that makes up the Bride of Christ that will be claimed one day.
 The bride for Adam was taken from his rib...God put a sleep on Adam and took a rib from his side.
 Christ died on the cross and the Roman soldiers pierced Christs side and out poured the blood and water....That was the birth of the New Testament church...or the beginning of the bride of Christ. It was not until Christ died on the cross that the blood could be accepted, and us pitiful people could mustar up enough faith to become betrothed to Jesus...engaged as a bride.
 God has no respect of persons so we all had to accept the blood, even those saints that had passed on, were in paradise of the OT awaiting Christ, he said, As Jonas was in the whales belly for three days and three nights so must the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights....I don't believe he was in the tomb, but was in Paradise preaching the shed blood to those that died before him...The old man Simeon, that held the Christ child, and John the Baptist probably got to tell those saints "Just hold on a little longer he will be here soon!
The ressurection of Christ was so strong and was such an event that in Matthew we are told of the earth quaking and those saints coming up from the graves and walking around among the living.
 We are also told there will be many that did great works, healed in his name, worked miracles in his name, yet they never were saved and they will spend an eternity in -heII-.
 So we shouldn't look to the walks of other men...even the disciples as examples, but to the example that Christ left...then we will all be exposed of our shortcomings.

As for Judas, I cannot judge him and if he ever accepted Jesus.I do know he committed suicide, but I'm not one that puts people in - heII- for suicide, Gods word tells me there is but one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit...which I  believe is nothing more than turning away God when you are convicted.

God Bless..Hope you have a great Easter.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 7, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> The Bible doesn't say they went to the toilet out in the desert either.  But I bet they did.



Just for fun.....1Sam 25:22,1Sam 25:34,1Kings 14:10,1Kings16:11,1Kings21:21, and 2kings9:8 in the KJV gives us proof that men in the desert tried to hold it until they could find a wall!  
 Have a great Easter.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 7, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Just for fun.....1Sam 25:22,1Sam 25:34,1Kings 14:10,1Kings16:11,1Kings21:21, and 2kings9:8 in the KJV gives us proof that men in the desert tried to hold it until they could find a wall!
> Have a great Easter.



Very very interesting!


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## StriperAddict (Apr 7, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Just for fun.....1Sam 25:22,1Sam 25:34,1Kings 14:10,1Kings16:11,1Kings21:21, and 2kings9:8 in the KJV gives us proof that men in the desert tried to hold it until they could find a wall!
> Have a great Easter.





Ronnie T said:


> Very very interesting!



Indeed!

Who sez God doesn't have a sense of humor??


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## dixie706 (Apr 7, 2012)

I think thedeacon made a very good point in his post, and i think it is very important that we as parents teach our children the meaning of the lords supper. Im sure there is alot of parents that doesnt, take for instence good friday and easter how many children do you think can tell you the real importance of those days? But thers lies a whole other topic ,,!!


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## mtnwoman (Apr 8, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Baptism is a nice public gesture, but is not necessary to salvation.Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord, when He decides to offer the grace and you decide to accept it. Once this is done you become one piece of the body that makes up the Bride of Christ that will be claimed one day.
> The bride for Adam was taken from his rib...God put a sleep on Adam and took a rib from his side.
> Christ died on the cross and the Roman soldiers pierced Christs side and out poured the blood and water....That was the birth of the New Testament church...or the beginning of the bride of Christ. It was not until Christ died on the cross that the blood could be accepted, and us pitiful people could mustar up enough faith to become betrothed to Jesus...engaged as a bride.
> God has no respect of persons so we all had to accept the blood, even those saints that had passed on, were in paradise of the OT awaiting Christ, he said, As Jonas was in the whales belly for three days and three nights so must the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights....I don't believe he was in the tomb, but was in Paradise preaching the shed blood to those that died before him...The old man Simeon, that held the Christ child, and John the Baptist probably got to tell those saints "Just hold on a little longer he will be here soon!
> ...



I know baptism is not a requirement of salvation. But you or whoever ask me if the disciples were baptized and I just said yes.

I don't believe suicide is an unforgiveable sin either. And I agree blaspeming the HS is the only unforgiveable sin, which is nearly impossible to do if you are saved. You can be angry and curse God, but that isn't unforgivable especially since you're human and if you have a child that dies.....God certainly understands your anger....as He lost one, too, for everyone's salvation, yet they choose to laugh and mock at resurrection.

Nice post you wrote there, and I agree.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 8, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Who sez God doesn't have a sense of humor??



Amen, bro!


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## BrowningFan (Apr 12, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Baptism is a nice public gesture, but is not necessary to salvation.Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord, when He decides to offer the grace and you decide to accept it. Once this is done you become one piece of the body that makes up the Bride of Christ that will be claimed one day.
> The bride for Adam was taken from his rib...God put a sleep on Adam and took a rib from his side.
> Christ died on the cross and the Roman soldiers pierced Christs side and out poured the blood and water....That was the birth of the New Testament church...or the beginning of the bride of Christ. It was not until Christ died on the cross that the blood could be accepted, and us pitiful people could mustar up enough faith to become betrothed to Jesus...engaged as a bride.
> God has no respect of persons so we all had to accept the blood, even those saints that had passed on, were in paradise of the OT awaiting Christ, he said, As Jonas was in the whales belly for three days and three nights so must the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights....I don't believe he was in the tomb, but was in Paradise preaching the shed blood to those that died before him...The old man Simeon, that held the Christ child, and John the Baptist probably got to tell those saints "Just hold on a little longer he will be here soon!
> ...



Great Post ..... The only people that were saved by water in my Bible AV1611 was Noah and his family.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 12, 2012)

BrowningFan said:


> Great Post ..... The only people that were saved by water in my Bible AV1611 was Noah and his family.



I sometimes wonder why baptism was even mentioned in the writing of the New Testament.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 14, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I sometimes wonder why baptism was even mentioned in the writing of the New Testament.



Maybe you should run with that thought. Study it for yourself and you will have some good material to teach a Sunday school or Bible study class.Im sure many other people have an interest in it.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 14, 2012)

BrowningFan said:


> The only people that were saved by water in my Bible AV1611 was Noah and his family.



Amen!


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## StriperAddict (Apr 14, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I sometimes wonder why baptism was even mentioned in the writing of the New Testament.



Interesting. It's one of the critical core doctrines in scripture, especially where the bible talks about the Holy Spirit's work in redemption, justification, and bringing us into the body of Christ.  

*1 Corinthians 12:13*
For we were all _*baptized* by  one Spirit_ so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Notice the believer is baptized by the Spirit, and no mention of water. If the Spirit doesn't bring us into life, we are none of His. It's His work, not ours...

*Romans 6:1-4*
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-28070">
1</sup> What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-28071">
2</sup> May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-28072">
3</sup> Or do you not know that all of us who have _been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death_? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-28073">
4</sup> Therefore we have been _buried with Him through baptism into death_, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

The verse makes it clear our 'baptism' into Christ's death/our death, was a work of the Holy Spirit.  So was being raised up with Christ to newness of life. This is where we get the power and grace for living in obedience to the Lord. 

*Galatians 3:27*
for all of you who were *baptized* into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

The great news is that since _the Spirit baptized us into Christ,_ we are dead to the power of sin, and alive in the power of God, in Christ.  

I am getting off topic, but Spirit baptism is an excellent study topic in scripture. Actually I find most talks about baptism and water miss the main point God wants to show us about it's meaning and strength in the Spirit.

And for those who just have to include the 'water' part (ad nausem, sorry), I went joyfully to my water baptism because it stood for the baptism which was _already done_ by God when I came to the cross and trusted the Name above all names to save my spirit and soul. 

PAX,
~Walter


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## Ronnie T (Apr 14, 2012)

StriperAddict said:


> Interesting. It's one of the critical core doctrines in scripture, especially where the bible talks about the Holy Spirit's work in redemption, justification, and bringing us into the body of Christ.
> 
> *1 Corinthians 12:13*
> For we were all _*baptized* by  one Spirit_ so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
> ...



Then why do so many Christians and churches speak of it nonchalantly, as though it doesn't mean anything, doesn't do anything, and was never required in the New Testament.
It was "required" by the apostles.  
There is no record in the Bible of an apostle discussing salvation with a single individual without mentioning and completing New Testament baptism.

Today, people spend more time telling what it doesn't do than they spend teaching what it does.

I agree with you, God connects us with many of His graces through baptism.
We are clothed in Christ in baptism.
We receive the Holy Spirit in baptism.
We express our faith in baptism.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 14, 2012)

BrowningFan said:


> Great Post ..... The only people that were saved by water in my Bible AV1611 was Noah and his family.



Odd that you mention Noah and water in regard to us.
What does the 1611 say at this verse.

1Peter 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."


*I agree with you that no one is saved by the water, but water baptism is clearly taught as being a part of salvation.  "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you"


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## StriperAddict (Apr 14, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Then why do so many Christians and churches speak of it nonchalantly, as though it doesn't mean anything, doesn't do anything, and was never required in the New Testament.
> It was "required" by the apostles.
> There is no record in the Bible of an apostle discussing salvation with a single individual without mentioning and completing New Testament baptism.
> 
> ...



Ok, but are you only speaking of water baptism? I'd add that the Spirit's baptism work is far greater than H2O, and it must come as a revelation of the Spirit by faith. Perhaps we have not that revelation, and go on sprinkling or dunking ourselves ... in obedience, yes, but in many cases b/c it's the "church" thing to do.
I wouldn't want someone under the water unless they knew how they are joined to the Lord, in death & resurrection, etc.  Again, I'd urge any reader to look at the verses where baptism mentions nothing of water, but the work of the Spirit.

Gotta go, outdoors awaits. 
 I doubt I'll come back to this one if all it gets back to is the duty of water baptism.  But thanks, Ronnie for getting me to consider some deeper stuff.  Not a bad thing, as wife and I will do some yakin', praying on it.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 14, 2012)

Just my simple little mind on water Baptism...There's two covenants in the Bible, an old covenant between God and the Jews that was fulfilled by Jesus, and the New Covenant between God and whosoever will, but between these Covenants we have the Gospels, which explain the Jews failing to keep the old Covenant with God, and explains God making a New Covenant with whosoever will.
In the Old testament scriptures we read of physical actions by God but in the Church age these actions are spiritual...
 God physically saved Noah and his family....today he spiritually saves us...In the Gospel, John the Baptist physically baptised with water....In the Church age we are spiritually baptised by the Holy Spirit....which is a cleansing of sin. We then give a public testimony of our new birth which is also what water baptism is "publicly confessing to be a believer".....but let us not forget....we MUST be born again...I never read in the book where it says we MUST have water baptism.
 I don't believe water baptism gets you there, I dont believe signing a card gets you there, and I dont believe quoting a prayer and raising a hand gets you there. I believe the Holy Spirit beckons, and your faith answers.It's between you and God.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 14, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Maybe you should run with that thought. Study it for yourself and you will have some good material to teach a Sunday school or Bible study class.Im sure many other people have an interest in it.



There is no shortage of baptism debates on this forum.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 14, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Then why do so many Christians and churches speak of it nonchalantly, as though it doesn't mean anything ...



I actually had a guy tell me once that water baptism was no more important than the color of carpeting the church chose for the sanctuary.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 14, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> I actually had a guy tell me once that water baptism was no more important than the color of carpeting the church chose for the sanctuary.



Then he was dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ronnie T (Apr 14, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Just my simple little mind on water Baptism...There's two covenants in the Bible, an old covenant between God and the Jews that was fulfilled by Jesus, and the New Covenant between God and whosoever will, but between these Covenants we have the Gospels, which explain the Jews failing to keep the old Covenant with God, and explains God making a New Covenant with whosoever will.
> In the Old testament scriptures we read of physical actions by God but in the Church age these actions are spiritual...
> God physically saved Noah and his family....today he spiritually saves us...In the Gospel, John the Baptist physically baptised with water....In the Church age we are spiritually baptised by the Holy Spirit....which is a cleansing of sin. We then give a public testimony of our new birth which is also what water baptism is "publicly confessing to be a believer".....but let us not forget....we MUST be born again...I never read in the book where it says we MUST have water baptism.
> I don't believe water baptism gets you there, I dont believe signing a card gets you there, and I dont believe quoting a prayer and raising a hand gets you there. I believe the Holy Spirit beckons, and your faith answers.It's between you and God.



I just try to leave my simple little mind out of the equation and trust the simple words of God's message to me.

And it isn't about what you believe.
It's about what the Bible says.

You said:  "I never read in the book where it says we MUST have water baptism".
I agree.  But you have read what the book says will happen when you are baptized.  And it says a lot.

In Acts 2:38 Peter didn't say those people MUST repent and be baptized.  But he told them what it would accomplish.

I don't want to get into the discussion again either.
Ignore it, adulterate it, minimize it, but the words are still there - and they are clear and concise.

Colossians 1 even compares baptism to the requirement of circumcision for the Jews.  Valid, concise, simple, yet so easily trampled upon.
The end.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 14, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> I just try to leave my simple little mind out of the equation and trust the simple words of God's message to me.
> 
> And it isn't about what you believe.
> It's about what the Bible says.
> ...



Apparently people have had this discussion before and some toes were stepped on.Sorry I haven't gone through all the past discussions and read the expressed passions of doctrine that some may have.The word is very clear.
John the baptist came as the head servant, just as Abraham sent his head servant out to find a bride for Issac, John the baptist was sent ahead of time to find and prepare the way for a bride for Jesus. The Jewish people were still under the old testament when John started his ministry and began to water baptize...Jesus had yet to shed his blood.But John said in Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and fire:....
.. fire not only cleanses it consumes that which is evil.

I do believe you are correct when you say water baptism is symbolic of circumcision. But even those old saints of the old testament, that had been circumsiced, had to await the shed blood of Christ before they could enter in..Matt 50:51-53.
Water Baptism is important, heck I've been dipped twice...but I've only been saved once...and I can take any of you to that exact spot where Jesus saved me, I have to take ole Satan there from time to time to prove a point to him that I belong to Jesus.
 I've known folks to get salvation on their deathbed where a water baptism was impossible to get, and I know a lady that has given me the most awesome testimony of God saving her...she' s Catholic and doesn't understand what happened other than she was heavily burdened and asked God to come into her heart and a change was instantly made....She had the faith, and he blessed her with the grace!. Gods work supersedes mans doctrines, and anyone that is beckoned by the spirit, has the faith that Jesus is lord, can be blessed with Gods grace...whosoever will...

As Christians we are failing people by not teaching enough Grace! 
You can be drug down to an altar and told you were saved
You can be given a piece of paper to sign and told you are saved.
You can be told to quote this prayer, and told you are saved. 
 You can be dunked in water and told that's all you need.

I'm glad I have heard the many testimonies of folks that finally got it right with God...I am not glad that of those many testimonies man interfered somewhere and confused people that all they had to do was some kind of symbolic something or another and they were ok....It would be better a man have a millstone around his neck and cast into the sea as hinder Gods work in salvation.

Symbolic rituals are works...we are not saved by works.
God bless you all.


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## centerpin fan (Apr 14, 2012)

hobbs27 said:


> Apparently people have had this discussion before and some toes were stepped on.



The baptism threads were long and involved, and nobody was budging on their position.  In other words, it was like any other thread.  I would say both sides got frustrated with the other.

If it's any consolation, we even had a poll, and "your side" won.


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## hobbs27 (Apr 14, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> The baptism threads were long and involved, and nobody was budging on their position.  In other words, it was like any other thread.  I would say both sides got frustrated with the other.
> 
> If it's any consolation, we even had a poll, and "your side" won.



No consolation. God is great and will overcome mans doctrine just has he did the Pharisee and Sadducees!


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