# Look here please. romans 8:13



## gordon 2 (Dec 2, 2013)

Romans 8:13

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


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Romans 8:13

King James Version (KJV)


13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
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So here 's my question(s). How do we know when the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body or the flesh as opposed to the body or the flesh ( our own minds and will , or our own desires to be righteous or  for other personal motivations) restraining itself?

And please note that it does not say to mortify or put to death the flesh, it says to moritfy _the deeds of the flesh_--- through the Spirit. 

So how do I know when the deeds of the flesh are put aside through the Spirit as opposed to through the an individual's own willful restraint for such and such motivation (s)?

I'm am thinking this might be important regards sheparding a flock. Maybe. Perhaps.


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## Artfuldodger (Dec 2, 2013)

I think the key word is "Ye" or "you". If "you" through the Spirit, using the grace and assistance of the Spirit. I would think the effort begins with the individuals willfull restraint guided by the Spirit. I don't believe you can completely seperate your will to mortify the deeds of the flesh from the Spirit's help.
That is an interesting question. Somehow "regeneration" is part of the process.


For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


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## Ronnie T (Dec 2, 2013)

gordon 2 said:


> Romans 8:13
> 
> New American Standard Bible (NASB)
> 
> ...



Not just the Spirit, and 
Not just you(the individual).

"but if,  by the Spirit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, YOU ...........are putting to death..


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## BT Charlie (Dec 2, 2013)

For me brother Gordon, there are two extremes that indicate to me when the Spirit has or has not put down my deeds of flesh. 

My own desire is central in knowing the Victory is in Christ.  

On one extreme, if I had a particularly virulent sin obsession the fact that I'm still obsessing on it demonstrates to me that more prayer and self mortification must occur.  Into the closet, alone, earnestly repenting, earnestly renouncing that sin, focusing on what is good and excellent.  At times, I literally feel as if my body burns in this process.  Active imagination or such a grip by the enemy? Don't know.  But the proof of dropped rebellion and Victory is that the once obsessed upon thing is no longer sought, no longer desired, is made repulsive to me.  That happens and that is when I think the Spirit prevails in my life.  I would be interested to hear what others say on this point as well. 

At the other extreme, I just keep on sinning -- whether it is coveting, envy, anger, same old thought processes, whatever -- I know I'm in rebellion and trying to self-struggle out of whatever sin it is.  Ain't never worked; ain't never gonna work.  Sure, I might stop ... for the millionth time.  But the heart thing is still there.  I have some real old ones that are just weird barnacles in my life. Go away man... . But one by one it seems they are presented in His perfect order for my opportunity to let the Spirit prevail upon them. For they are surely apparent to the Lord. When these arise, see step number one.

The middle ground between these extremes is tough.  It's "below the radar" territory.  I'm in sin, but I'm ignoring it.  My male brain has compartmentalized some or a lot of big stinking sin hunks in my life.  I'm quite content with this rotten flesh stinking up the place, apparently. In my contentment, I forget about it and go on with my self completely unaware of my rotting flesh deeds -- so it seems.  I become blind and can't smell to this sin.

My idea here is as Forumla advocates -- daily, disciplined self-evaluation and repentence.  Reveal through my planks Lord what you will, and take it all, every ounce of my sin.  I spent some time  this weekend, going through a series of prayers and renunciation of the spirits or mindsets of mine contributing to or causing problems.  I think Forumla is on to something here.


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## gordon 2 (Dec 2, 2013)

Ronnie T said:


> Not just the Spirit, and
> Not just you(the individual).
> 
> "but if,  by the Spirit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, YOU ...........are putting to death..



Yes. Very good point.  So maybe I could rephrase the question: How do I know that "I" am killing the deeds of the flesh with the Spirit as opposed to the flesh bitting it's own mouth and deeds for its own fleshy self-preservation?

How about this: I am not going to commit adultry because  I don't want the witch to get her share of the 5.5 million "I" have in coffee cup shares.


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## formula1 (Dec 2, 2013)

*Re:*



BT Charlie said:


> My idea here is as Forumla advocates -- daily, disciplined self-evaluation and repentence.  Reveal through my planks Lord what you will, and take it all, every ounce of my sin.  I spent some time  this weekend, going through a series of prayers and renunciation of the spirits or mindsets of mine contributing to or causing problems.  I think Forumla is on to something here.



Why thank you!  But it is not my idea, believe me!  Glory to God!

The idea is the Holy Spirit knows our weaknesses and the battle is already won, for God sees us clothed in the righteousness of Christ! But to the extent we do not know or are not able to overcome and apply that truth to our earthly life (as men we still see God very dimly),  He gives us the Power to defeat it by daily, disciplined self-evaluation and repentence.

Keep being transformed by the renewing of your mind by the Spirit and eventually maybe we will all believe what we already have in Christ!

I long for that day where the struggle is no longer! How wonderful that day will be when life's battlefield is destroyed and our flesh is totally in the hands of our heavenly Father!

Keep getting well and God Bless!


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## gordon 2 (Dec 2, 2013)

BT Charlie said:


> For me brother Gordon, there are two extremes that indicate to me when the Spirit has or has not put down my deeds of flesh.
> 
> My own desire is central in knowing the Victory is in Christ.
> 
> ...



Firstly, you write very well and your thoughts are well organized. I know, I might sound like our grade 5 teacher, but what I mean is if you don't know it by now, your writing skill is a little above average and the messages you convey are appreciated  with out many re-reads. However, what you say is so important that I will re-read.LOL


Let me make a short comment on this for now:  Quote:"But the proof of dropped rebellion and Victory is that the once obsessed upon thing is no longer sought, no longer desired, is made repulsive to me."

Is "repulsive" the right word?  For me if I said that I would have said "of no good purpose". But that is me. Maybe being a nurse I am not repulsed by sores and the obsessed-- in myself or in others. 

And what Formula says about repentance should not be regarded as just from a mere ant hill-- as I think it is rather from the massiveness of a mountain range he speaks from. And I would say this of him even if I was his enemy, and not because I need or cherish his friendship--which of course I do. In other word I say this without any need to be on his good side.

Your observations are very interesting. Will be back to them. 

Peace bros.


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## BT Charlie (Dec 2, 2013)

gordon 2 said:


> Let me make a short comment on this for now:  Quote:"But the proof of dropped rebellion and Victory is that the once obsessed upon thing is no longer sought, no longer desired, is made repulsive to me."
> 
> Is "repulsive" the right word?  For me if I said that I would have said "of no good purpose". But that is me. Maybe being a nurse I am not repulsed by sores and the obsessed-- in myself or in others.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your kind words, brother.

You make a very good point, Gordo.  I am interested in hearing more of your view of it.  

From my perch, if a particular sin has come crashing into painful notice, and it's because I really, really, want to roll in the rebellion it represents, like a border collie in a cow pie, well then it takes some serious renunciation to eliminate the thought.  I mean, this is the kind of sin that sounds like a cyber Monday shopper "I just HAVE to pursue that... whatever it is."  And "that" may be perfectly fine, but it's my pursuit that is usually the issue.  My heart longing for something other than Christ.

Sin renunciation and avoidance gets easier once Christ has made it clear to me how sickening is such misguided pursuit.  

Like the thought of Kentucky bourbon causing a gag reflex.   Not saying anything against Kentucky bourbon.  But a person may have just had to been there to understand when a mere whiff of it puts you on a tight rope between survival and death.  Better to avoid the whiff altogether, and not bank on the gag reflex as your lips part.  In this instance, the gag reflex at the first thought of it helps one avoid even the whiff, which can lead to death.

I take no prisoners here.  (ha ha. Oh if it were only so. Forgive me, again, Lord.) Let me trutfhfully urge you all to take no prisoners here.  Flee from sin like a gazelle from the lion.  

In my case, the gazelle up-chucks some cud just before he bolts from the death in the long grass.


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## gordon 2 (Dec 2, 2013)

BT Charlie said:


> Thanks for your kind words, brother.
> 
> You make a very good point, Gordo.  I am interested in hearing more of your view of it.
> 
> ...



The blue is what I was trying to say. LOL....

 I see now. As for me it was not the rum itself that was gona kill me physically, it was  the lack of inibition combined with loneliness that almost killed me spiritually.

 Also, I like your african hunting references. If you ever meet up with M'bogo or daggaboy, give him one extra for me.


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## clayservant (Dec 3, 2013)

formula1 said:


> Why thank you!  But it is not my idea, believe me!  Glory to God!
> 
> The idea is the Holy Spirit knows our weaknesses and the battle is already won, for God sees us clothed in the righteousness of Christ! But to the extent we do not know or are not able to overcome and apply that truth to our earthly life (as men we still see God very dimly),  He gives us the Power to defeat it by daily, disciplined self-evaluation and repentence.
> 
> ...



Amen.....
I know that I was saved but I was bound by alcohol for over 25 years, I have been free now for 2 years and 133 days Glory to God, my struggle is over but I had to keep seeking and repenting and trying to fight it, it came down to where God asked me if I wanted to die or did I want to live ,I wanted to live and serve him more than anything in the world, so I gave up trying to stop drinking and told God I want to be free and if he would set me free I would serve him for the rest of my life, he did and I am..


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## BT Charlie (Dec 4, 2013)

clayservant said:


> Amen.....
> I know that I was saved but I was bound by alcohol for over 25 years, I have been free now for 2 years and 133 days Glory to God, my struggle is over but I had to keep seeking and repenting and trying to fight it, it came down to where God asked me if I wanted to die or did I want to live ,I wanted to live and serve him more than anything in the world, so I gave up trying to stop drinking and told God I want to be free and if he would set me free I would serve him for the rest of my life, he did and I am..



Awesome.


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