# Plastics on The Fly Rod



## Randy

My latest blog: Plastics on the Fly Rod

http://georgiariverpirate.blogspot.com/2011/08/plastics-on-fly-rod.html


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## centerpin fan

Good tips.  The idea has been around for awhile, but not many people do it.  (At least, they won't admit to it.  )

Jack Ellis wrote about this in his book, _Bassin' with a Fly Rod_, but the real pioneer was Tom Nixon.  He wrote about fishing plastic worms on the fly rod in _Fly Tying and Fly Fishing for Bass and Panfish._

BTW, this also works great for bluegill.  They love the little plastic trout worms and 1-2" curly tail grubs.  They're not difficult to cast on lighter rods.


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## kirby999

Randy, if you enjoy fishing that way ; that's great . I can see your point . I'm not crazy about nymphing  with a flyrod . Two or three flies strung together  with a couple of split shot ; topped off with an "indicator" ,  and you spend the day "chucking and ducking" .  Why not just use an UL spinning outfit with a small float . So many ways to get the same result .  I say to each his own and have fun fishing . kirby   Edit : BTW , If you're looking for an opinion as to if it is flyfishing to use plastics on a flyrod ; IMO no , but IMO neither is nymphing , but  it doesn't have to be called flyfishing either IMO .


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## Nitram4891

Why not use a spinning rod?


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## Randy

A fly rod is MUCH more efficient.  I can cast the lure to a spot, strip it once or twice, pick it up and hit another spot before the lure no the lightweight spinning rod even hits the bottom.  I can hit five spots as i am floating along where with a spinning reel i could only hit one.  On top of that I have no loops in my line like you get with light weight spinning and the fly rod is a lot more accurate and casts further.


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## Nitram4891

This to me just means that we need better shoal bass flies.


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## Randy

Nitram4891 said:


> This to me just means that we need better shoal bass flies.



I'll agree with that.


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## injun joe

Good article. Before you found the keeper hooks, did you ever super glue the baits to a standard hook?


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## cpowel10

I'll give this a shot next time I go.

I'm new to flyfishing to excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be easy to hit yourself with a big ole plastic bait?  I've his myself a time or two with bream getters, I can't imagine throwing a heavier plastic.  But I'll try it!


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## cpowel10

I'll give this a shot next time I go.

I'm new to flyfishing so excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be easy to hit yourself with a big ole plastic bait?  I've hit myself a time or two with bream getters, I can't imagine throwing a heavier plastic.  But I'll try it!


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## Randy

injun joe said:


> Good article. Before you found the keeper hooks, did you ever super glue the baits to a standard hook?



The glue is messy and they get the claws a lot so you are replacing baits often.

As for throwing these big plastics, they weigh no more than a clouser and they are soft rubber.  They hurt less than those dumbbell eyes on a clouser.


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## Paymaster

Randy said:


> T
> They hurt less than those dumbbell eyes on a clouser.




I still have a knot on my head from one that hit me. 
Now as to the plastics,I never knock how one legally fishes or hunts but that said, flyfishing to me is casting a fly. I don't consider plastic lures flies. But I can see how they would be effective on a flyrod. For shoalies and small bass, I will use my craws or Stealth Bombers.


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## Randy

Paymaster, I understand where you are coming from.  I posted this Link on several forums last night and this morning.  As expected I have had many comments that this is not fly fishing.  I am sure, especially to those who enjoy tying their on flies, this does not seem to be fly fishing.  Many have commented that they like to trick fish into biting flies they tie.  I am certain there is a lot of satisfaction in that.

I use flies also, even some tied by you.  But my main thing is catching fish.  That is why I fish, that is why I guide.  Yes I enjoy just kayaking on the river but I fish to catch fish.  As a result I am always looking for an advantage.  I honestly did not think this fly rod would be an advantage but since I started with it in January I have caught more fish and more big fish than any year previously.  

This may not be fly fishing but it catches fish.  Others may not enjoy it.  Heck others may not even be as successful at it.  But I wrote this Blog article to share a technique that has really added to my success on the river.  It would be fine with me if nobody tries it.  That makes it easier to find these Yum Crawfish.


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## Paymaster

Randy said:


> Paymaster, I understand where you are coming from.  I posted this Link on several forums last night and this morning.  As expected I have had many comments that this is not fly fishing.  I am sure, especially to those who enjoy tying their on flies, this does not seem to be fly fishing.  Many have commented that they like to trick fish into biting flies they tie.  I am certain there is a lot of satisfaction in that.
> 
> I use flies also, even some tied by you.  But my main thing is catching fish.  That is why I fish, that is why I guide.  Yes I enjoy just kayaking on the river but I fish to catch fish.  As a result I am always looking for an advantage.  I honestly did not think this fly rod would be an advantage but since I started with it in January I have caught more fish and more big fish than any year previously.
> 
> This may not be fly fishing but it catches fish.  Others may not enjoy it.  Heck others may not even be as successful at it.  But I wrote this Blog article to share a technique that has really added to my success on the river.  It would be fine with me if nobody tries it.  That makes it easier to find these Yum Crawfish.


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## allenww

*Small lure "flyfishing"*

I enjoy fishing with most anything with a fly rod, especially if wading (plenty of backcast room).

That said, I use baby zebcos, three to five # test,  and very light spincast rods built from the top halves of fly blanks, for the type fishing you describe.  Especially in tight quarters, and/or tough footing or low water, I have better luck because I can "work" the lure easily and maintain water contact for a longer period.  

It is also easier to me to maintain line tension (better strike retention) in the above conditions.

The downside is that a large fish will beat me two thirds of the time. 

wa


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## centerpin fan

Randy said:


> As expected I have had many comments that this is not fly fishing.



That's not surprising, and it's why Jack Ellis titled his book, _Bassin' with a Fly Rod_, and not _Fly Fishing for Bass_.

Did you post this on the Warmwater fly site?  They're a pretty "plastic friendly" bunch. 




Randy said:


> This may not be fly fishing but it catches fish.



That was Tom Nixon's reasoning.  He actually won a bass tournament casting plastic worms and his special fly rod spinnerbaits.


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## centerpin fan

allenww said:


> That said, I use baby zebcos ...



Why the Zebcos?  I do the same thing a lot and much prefer spinning reels.


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## injun joe

Randy said:


> Paymaster, I understand where you are coming from.  I posted this Link on several forums last night and this morning.  As expected I have had many comments that this is not fly fishing.  I am sure, especially to those who enjoy tying their on flies, this does not seem to be fly fishing.  Many have commented that they like to trick fish into biting flies they tie.  I am certain there is a lot of satisfaction in that.
> 
> I use flies also, even some tied by you.  But my main thing is catching fish.  That is why I fish, that is why I guide.  Yes I enjoy just kayaking on the river but I fish to catch fish.  As a result I am always looking for an advantage.  I honestly did not think this fly rod would be an advantage but since I started with it in January I have caught more fish and more big fish than any year previously.
> 
> This may not be fly fishing but it catches fish.  Others may not enjoy it.  Heck others may not even be as successful at it.  But I wrote this Blog article to share a technique that has really added to my success on the river.  It would be fine with me if nobody tries it.  That makes it easier to find these Yum Crawfish.



If you think that fishing plastics with a fly rod blows them up, you should mention fishing live bait on one. My grandfather taught me to fly fish when I was a kid and he was a great caster as well as a great roll caster. When the fish wouldn't cooperate on a fly, he would roll cast night crawlers and crickets.
It was amazingly effective and we caught tons of fish that way. In the early '80's, a fellow from Louisiana showed me a way to "thread" night crawlers on a hook with a home made threader. You could then use a conventional fly cast with them. I wish my Pawpaw had have lived long enough to see that.


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## dawgcpa

I'm going to have to try this with a larger rod.  Randy was kind enough to share this with me last week when I PM'd him about fly suggestions for a river kayak trip this past weekend.  I bought the baits but it did not work very well with my 6 weight.  I even tied big leaders thinking that would help but it did not.  It was managable but not very easy.  I don't have a 7 weight but I do have an 8.  I think I'm going to rig it up for this kind of fishing.  I got frustrated this weekend and eventually I just went to my old zebco 33 with a spin dandy beetle spin baited with a live cricket.  It worked extremely well for big bream and small bass.  It was a ton of fun to fish as well.

BTW, I love the idea of using hand tied flies but when I only get on the water a few times a year, I want to catch fish.  Thanks again Randy for the help.  I'll be looking for more hot tips in the future!


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## allenww

*Zebcos and light line fishing*

"Why the Zebcos?  I do the same thing a lot and much prefer spinning reels."

    I choose the baby Zebcos for light weight; simplicity of construction; ease of maintenance, and reliability.

I like their one piece drag mechanism and the fact that the reel can be field stripped, cleaned and greased faster than I can type this sentence. 

I like the look on a kid's face when he and I are using the exact same equipment.  

I like it when  its time to go home and he hands me back the rod, and I can say "Keep it - you earned it"

Building the rods is like tieing flies - keeps me out of trouble in the wintertime. 

 Also, I am cheap and baby Zebcos are cheap. 

     wa


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## MadDawg51

allenww;6221090.....
I like the look on a kid's face when he and I are using the exact same equipment.  

I like it when  its time to go home and he hands me back the rod said:
			
		

> That sorta sums up the quality of folk on GON.  I know not every one is great.  But, we've got some great folk on the forum.  Allen, thanks for the smile it brings to my face.


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## kenmorrow

Fishing plastics on a fly rod always seems to ruffle some feathers.  If you enjoy it, who cares?

My old friend (and I do mean old in the sense that we've been friends a long time AND that he's an old man) Fox Statler, a well known fly fishing innovator who was one of the original fly guides on Arkansas' White River, has written extensively about fishing ultra-light plastics for bass and pan fish on fly rods.  Fox lives on the Spring River, which is likely AR's best remaining smallmouth bass fishery.

Personally, I sort of scratch my head about all the "that's not fly fishing" stuff.  Here we are in the days of all sorts of Clear Cure Goo, Tuffleye, Gummy Minnow, etc. soft plastic saltwater flies that nobody fusses about at all.  In fact, the creators of these patterns are hailed as some of the greatest names in fly tying:  Bob Popovics ring any bells?  The we've got Enrico Puglisi and his 100% synthetic fly tying revolution for mostly bait fish flies.  He's all the rage and considered one of the greatest things to hit fly tying since the invention of head cement.  Mylar tubing, stretch tubing, fly foam, ...should I go on?

I love bamboo rods and all natural material flies as much as the next fella.  I'm an historian and linguist by academic training (and professional credentials).  That's pretty "old school."  But I'm a pretty big fan of modern advances in technology when they work better.  I mean, I wouldn't want to take a spin in a space shuttle if they were using blown asbestos for the re-entry heat shield, or go for a drive across the Serengeti in a car without air-conditioning.


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## Randy

Ken,
I know we have bumped heads on other subjects, but I appreciate you comments.


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## kenmorrow

Randy,

I am not threatened or offended by differences of opinion.  My goal is to treat others with the same level of respect and courtesy they show me.  I think everyone is entitled to both have and express their own ideas about things.  We all benefit from free and fair competition, and that is true in the arena of ideas too.

Let me ask you this:

What's the difference between a bucktail jig and a Clouser Deep Minnow?  Both have a weighted head, upturned hook point, and bucktail body materials.  They produce a very similar if not identical action and silhouette.  I submit that the only real difference is that they jig head comes as a pre-weighted hook while the fly tier has to tie on weighted dumbell eyes to tie his Clouser fly.  Well, the bucktail streamer just so happens to be one of the oldest types of flies in the history of fly fishing.  Yet, you will hear/read guys saying that if you fish with mini-jigs on a fly rod you're not fly fishing.  But they have no problem tying on a Clouser Deep Minnow, Lefty's Deceiver, etc.  Then you get the ones who think only a dry fly properly presented in a upstream manner is REAL fly fishing.  But as I pointed out, the earliest fly fishing (nearly all fly fishing for a millenium or two) until about 150 years ago at the most was all sub-surface with wet flies.  In an attempt to demonstrate their snobbishness, they've actually displayed their ignorance of the sport they desire to seem so on top of.

But...in the end...the whole freakin' deal is about having fun.  It's just fishin'.  The fish don't get smarter or suddenly develop a sophisticated set of social sensibilities just because you picked up a fly rod.  But some fellas have to justify all that loot they left at the Orvis shop.


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## Randy

I am with you.  Some of my fly fishing friends who I really look up to like Henry Cowan and Kent Edmonds say if you can throw it on a fly rod you are fly fishing.  They are highly respected and if they say it I am good wiht it.  But in the end I don't really care what it is called.  I am catching fish and having fun.  That is what matters to me.


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## centerpin fan

kenmorrow said:


> My old friend ... Fox Statler,



That's interesting.  I stumbled onto his website a few years ago -- really liked his articles.  He's a colorful fellow. 

He's got a couple of Youtube videos of fishing plastics on the fly rod for smallies.  He mentions he got the idea from Charlie Brewer, one of my fishing heroes.


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## fishndoc

> Some of my fly fishing friends who I really look up to like Henry Cowan and Kent Edmonds say_ if you can throw it on a fly rod you are fly fishing_.



Absolutely.  If you read some of the FF literature, there are purists (not the word I use to describe them) who say using Wooly Buggers is not fly fishing - some even say anything other than a dry fly _fished upstream_ is not fly fishing.

What's the old saying about everyone having the right to an opinion, and what it's worth?

Also, FWIW, I even know some scoundrels who occasionally use Trout Magnets on a fly rod at Dukes Creek - works pretty darn well, and they go home convinced they had a great day Fly Fishing.


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## kenmorrow

I've been practicing casting an M-80 on a Skagit head and a 12 wt switch rod with a short tapered leader.  I figure that if I get my timing down and use waterproof fuses, it should be a very effective technique.  I'm glad to know I've got Kent Edmonds' endorsement!  LOL


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## Randy

kenmorrow said:


> I've been practicing casting an M-80 on a Skagit head and a 12 wt switch rod with a short tapered leader.  I figure that if I get my timing down and use waterproof fuses, it should be a very effective technique.  I'm glad to know I've got Kent Edmonds' endorsement!  LOL


OK that is probably stretching it....lol


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## Paymaster

fishndoc said:


> Absolutely.  If you read some of the FF literature, there are purists (not the word I use to describe them) who say using Wooly Buggers is not fly fishing - some even say anything other than a dry fly _fished upstream_ is not fly fishing.
> 
> What's the old saying about everyone having the right to an opinion, and what it's worth?
> 
> Also, FWIW, I even know some scoundrels who occasionally use Trout Magnets on a fly rod at Dukes Creek - works pretty darn well, and they go home convinced they had a great day Fly Fishing.




I tied some Buggers last year for a member here. He wanted propellers in front of the bead head. They spun good and it is still flyfish'n.The whole point is having fun IMO. And if effective while having fun,so much the better.


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## kenmorrow

Ah-ha, Randy!  You see?  At some point we _all_ become "snobs."  LOL

Personally, I draw the line wherever the law dawgs do.  I mean I have my own _preferences_ that are often stricter than the law for _me_, but I support everyone's right to enjoy fishing the way they want to within the regulations and the general confines of good manners and common consideration for others.

For example, I was in my kayak staked out sight-casting to a couple of rolling juvenile tarpon a couple of weeks back in FL when this older fella with his kids and grandkids in a pontoon boat putters right in to my casting zone smack dead in front of me and casts a bait net.  _We're talking 40' off my bow._  And they had seen me cast to a rolling fish.  That was perfectly legal for him to do, but perfectly unsportsman-like, too.  I politely told him he was setting a poor example for his grandkids.  He threatened to capsize my kayak, which was _not_ legal.  I calmly explained that the reason I packed iron while fishing was because of jerks like him, and that I'd prefer not to have to defend myself from a potentially deadly assault in front of the children.  He decided that finding his bait elsewhere was probably a better idea.


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## kenmorrow

Paymaster said:


> I tied some Buggers last year for a member here. He wanted propellers in front of the bead head. They spun good and it is still flyfish'n.The whole point is having fun IMO. And if effective while having fun,so much the better.



That is called a Pistol Pete, and was first introduced by a fly shop of sorts in Trinidad, Colorado.  They use them a lot in southern CO and NM for catching stocked trout and bass in lakes.


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## MadDawg51

kenmorrow said:


> .....I calmly explained that the reason I packed iron while fishing was because of jerks like him, and that I'd prefer not to have to defend myself from a potentially deadly assault in front of the children....



Now, that is funny.

I'm sure it was less funny as it happened.  But, it is a great one for around the campfire....or beside the fish fryer.


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## yaknfish

Originally Posted by kenmorrow  
".....I calmly explained that the reason I packed iron while fishing was because of jerks like him, and that I'd prefer not to have to defend myself from a potentially deadly assault in front of the children...."

So that's what lanyard loops on the base of the grip are good for (for those of us not in the cavalry)!


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## Georgia Hard Hunter

Hey I'm a "Live and let Live" kinda of guy. Do what turns you on but for me...... its over the line. Why use flies at all just get a plastic molded stonefly or cricket and have it painted to be exact in detail.....


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## kenmorrow

MadDawg51 said:


> Now, that is funny.
> 
> I'm sure it was less funny as it happened.  But, it is a great one for around the campfire....or beside the fish fryer.



No, I actually thought it was funny while it was happening.  Please refer to my avatar for more insight into my twisted personality.  And sitting dead in the water about 5' apart and his motor off on a pontoon boat and me in a kayak about 100' from the bank, his threat was pretty hollow.  He was getting mad and lashing out because he knew he was wrong and he was embarrassed.  So he lashed out instead of apologizing, which was the last thing I said to him...

As he started the motor and put the boat in gear I said, "_Real_ men can admit when they've made a mistake and just apologize.  Apparently, you sir can do neither."


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## chef

NEAT!!! ive always used a zoom super fluke at the family lake and it has been very productive. i have just recently started tying flies and tried to mimic a fluke with a white clouser minnow , and others to try and match the smaller fish.here is some pics of the ones ive tied and caught bass on. there not that great im still learning!


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## Paymaster

They catch fish Chef! I think they look good as well!


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## Randy

OK all you fly tieing snobs  can tie your own plastics now:
http://www.feather-craft.com/wecs.php?store=feacraft&action=display&target=TB066


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## kirby999

That looks pretty neat .  I missed the middle of the video ,  I kept falling asleep while he was wrapping the yarn around the legs .  kirby


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