# Witness Schemes



## hobbs27 (Aug 11, 2014)

I would like to hear about failed attempts and annoying forms of how Christians have attempted to convert non-believers. Tell me what is sure not to work for you. Thanks.


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## centerpin fan (Aug 11, 2014)

When I was in college, we had a designated "free speech area" outside of the student center.  Anybody could stand up and talk about whatever they wanted.  Almost nobody did -- except traveling evangelist Jed Smock.  I see he's still in business:

http://brojed.org/cms/

I don't think he converted many people, but he was interesting and drew big crowds.


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## ambush80 (Aug 11, 2014)

Turn or burn.

If you believe and you are wrong you've lost nothing.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 11, 2014)

I dont know what it is like to an atheist. Im a bit aggravated by folks that threaten he11 to folks if they dont believe as they do. To me Christianity should be liberty and freedom from the corrupt world. Folks should desire it and not be scared into it.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 11, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> Turn or burn.
> 
> If you believe and you are wrong you've lost nothing.



Exactly!


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## swampstalker24 (Aug 11, 2014)

One time I saw what looked like a dollar bill laying on the ground... picked it up and to my suprise it was a million dollar bill!! I was a bit disapointed when I read "Where will you go when you die?  That is the million dollar question" HA!  I just threw it back down for the next guy to find it....


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## WaltL1 (Aug 11, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I dont know what it is like to an atheist. Im a bit aggravated by folks that threaten he11 to folks if they dont believe as they do. To me Christianity should be liberty and freedom from the corrupt world. Folks should desire it and not be scared into it.





> Im a bit aggravated by folks that threaten he11 to folks if they dont believe as they do.


Its pretty silly isn't it? They know they are talking to someone who doesnt believe that he11 exists yet the best they got is to tell the Atheist they are going there.
What that says to the Atheist is the only reason to believe is out of fear. Many Christians are not qualified to try to convert someone and only succeed in pushing that person farther away.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 11, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Its pretty silly isn't it? They know they are talking to someone who doesnt believe that he11 exists yet the best they got is to tell the Atheist they are going there.
> What that says to the Atheist is the only reason to believe is out of fear.



Walt---they even do it to their own kind, because they believe differently. Many denominations believe they are the only ones that are going to make it to heaven.

 I was told a joke once I thought was funny. There was a man that died and made it to heaven and upon arrival he met some friends that had passed on before him. He told his buddies. " Wow heaven is more beautiful than I ever thought it would be, but I never imagined there would be a huge wall running through it". His buddies said, " shhh, The Baptists are on the other side of that wall and they think they are the only ones here".


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## WaltL1 (Aug 11, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Walt---they even do it to their own kind, because they believe differently. Many denominations believe they are the only ones that are going to make it to heaven.
> 
> I was told a joke once I thought was funny. There was a man that died and made it to heaven and upon arrival he met some friends that had passed on before him. He told his buddies. " Wow heaven is more beautiful than I ever thought it would be, but I never imagined there would be a huge wall running through it". His buddies said, " shhh, The Baptists are on the other side of that wall and they think they are the only ones here".


 That is funny. And makes a very good point.


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## Israel (Aug 11, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I dont know what it is like to an atheist. Im a bit aggravated by folks that threaten he11 to folks if they dont believe as they do. To me Christianity should be liberty and freedom from the corrupt world. Folks should desire it and not be scared into it.


gee, that's funny, I believe I deal with my own atheism every day.
God tells me something, shows me something, reveals something of perfect sense and reason...and off I go, later finding myself like I didn't hear a word.
And then I see the only reason I see that is cause someone was looking for me...to continue the conversation.
I didn't find myself, I got found.
Out.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 11, 2014)

Anyone ever been to one of those wild game dinners sponsored by a church? I hear they offer a prayer you can quote and be saved by repeating the speakers words.


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## JB0704 (Aug 11, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Anyone ever been to one of those wild game dinners sponsored by a church? I hear they offer a prayer you can quote and be saved by repeating the speakers words.



YEa, they are a pretty big thing in churches.  Generally, the food is awful at these things.  

The old school "pot luck" lunches on Mother's day and Father's day, however, were the best meals I have ever eaten.  That is a culture that is almost gone, and it's a shame.

And, there probably isn't a person posting here who hasn't heard, and probably repeated, the speaker's words.

I'm a believer, so my response is most likely not what you were looking for, but, those tracts that people used to put on car windows were generally awful.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 11, 2014)

College - I had a two hour French class on North Campus at UGA.  We had a half hour break and half the class would go to "Munchies" at the corner of Lumpkin and Broad for beers.

One our classmates was a member of the "Campus Crusade for Christ" and took it upon himself to stand on the stairs of the building one day and berate us for going off drinking (the prof went with us, most days).  

He asked if anyone had even been raised in the Christian church - I said "Sure, I was raised in the Presbyterian Church, but I saw the light and left".  

He asked me if that was even a Christian faith - well - I went off on the fool and ended up by saying that if he was so ignorant as to not even educate himself about the world's religions that he didn't even know that the Presbyterian Church was ANOTHER PROTESTANT FAITH, JUST LIKE HIS - then he could go and well, pound sand. (those aren't exactly the words I used) 

Nothing angers me more than zealous religious idiots who think theirs is the "one true religion" and refuse to educate themselves about all the rest.  I'll sit and debate all day with someone who has educated themselves and wants to engage in a true debate, but if "all you got" is this is the way I was raised, then don't waste my time, I'm going to make a fool of you.


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## drippin' rock (Aug 12, 2014)

Around here, someone keeps slipping those tracts in with the 12packs of beer.


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## Israel (Aug 12, 2014)

A witness has no scheme, no ulterior motive.
He simply appears when summoned to testify to what he has seen and heard.
Now a witness who appears and discovers he has remaining charges, or outstanding warrants against him may give a corrupt testimony, trying to "please" the court.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me.

There is a time to speak, a time to be silent. There are times we are _provoked_ to self incrimination. We needn't be.


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## JB0704 (Aug 12, 2014)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> One our classmates was a member of the "Campus Crusade for Christ" and took it upon himself to stand on the stairs of the building one day and berate us for going off drinking (the prof went with us, most days).



As I read this story, what occurs to me is that this guy probably would have accomplished a lot more of value, if nothing more than a conversation, if he had gone and drank with ya.

I don't understand the aversion to beer.  It seems like that is a remnant of our puritan roots still playing out in certain segments of our faith.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> As I read this story, what occurs to me is that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great point JB. Im not sure how to put this in words but many Christians reinforce the attitude that they are "different". Not just different beliefs but almost a different species. I am a good species and you are a bad species. When in fact we are all people. The quickest way to shut somebody's mind down to what you have to say is to reinforce that you have nothing in common. If the dude mentioned above had joined them and even just had a sweet tea, it would have been a starting point of commonality and not separation.
Christians are directed to go out and share the word. Unfortunately they aren't taught the smart way to do that. 
99% of the time a nonbeliever is looking at you and not so much what you have to say. Once over that hurdle is when he starts listening.


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## 660griz (Aug 12, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Tell me what is sure not to work for you. Thanks.



Nothing works on me and they are all annoying to various degrees. From knocking on my door to yelling on street corners.


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## JB0704 (Aug 12, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> Great point JB. Im not sure how to put this in words but many Christians reinforce the attitude that they are "different". Not just different beliefs but almost a different species. I am a good species and you are a bad species. When in fact we are all people. The quickest way to shut somebody's mind down to what you have to say is to reinforce that you have nothing in common. If the dude mentioned above had joined them and even just had a sweet tea, it would have been a starting point of commonality and not separation.
> Christians are directed to go out and share the word. Unfortunately they aren't taught the smart way to do that.
> 99% of the time a nonbeliever is looking at you and not so much what you have to say. Once over that hurdle is when he starts listening.



I understand your perception, and I come from a culture where "sinners" were looked down on.  Honestly, I was taught that gay folks were demon possessed   Alcohol was the debil, and even tobacco users were banging on the gates of hades.

As an adult, after I returned to fatih, I read about Jesus on my own.  The part of his story that got to me, at that stage in life, was that he got in trouble with religious folks for being friends with the "wrong crowd."  

In fact, it was the religious crowd of his day that persecuted him the most.  I know you are not a believer, but, that part of the story always seemed so ironic to me, given my background.....and made it much more understandable to myself, given I had a "rebel" mentality.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> I understand your perception, and I come from a culture where "sinners" were looked down on.  Honestly, I was taught that gay folks were demon possessed   Alcohol was the debil, and even tobacco users were banging on the gates of hades.
> 
> As an adult, after I returned to fatih, I read about Jesus on my own.  The part of his story that got to me, at that stage in life, was that he got in trouble with religious folks for being friends with the "wrong crowd."
> 
> In fact, it was the religious crowd of his day that persecuted him the most.  I know you are not a believer, but, that part of the story always seemed so ironic to me, given my background.....and made it much more understandable to myself, given I had a "rebel" mentality.


Yes.
You are a good example of this -


> If the dude mentioned above had joined them and even just had a sweet tea, it would have been a starting point of commonality and not separation.


You are a "regular guy" and a Christian who basically just says "heres what I believe and how its affected my life". The End.
Because a nonbeliever can identify with you that causes them to be open about what you say and in turn causes them to think about what you are saying.
In the end the nonbeliever may still not believe but you caused them to think. Thinking is what can cause change in beliefs or attitudes.
And that's the whole point of "spreading the word".


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## centerpin fan (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> Alcohol was the debil, and even tobacco users were banging on the gates of hades.



Don't drink, smoke or chew or hang out with girls who do.


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## JB0704 (Aug 12, 2014)

centerpin fan said:


> Don't drink, smoke, cuss or chew or hang out with girls who do.



You left one out 

But, I always got a kick out of that phrase. Funny stuff.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 12, 2014)

The moment the utterance of "truth" occurs. Or any on its synonyms. 

You can know the Bible, it's quite another to claim to know God, IMO.


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## hobbs27 (Aug 12, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> The moment the utterance of "truth" occurs. Or any on its synonyms.
> 
> You can know the Bible, it's quite another to claim to know God, IMO.



 I see a lot of Christians claim to know the bible, but soon as they start talking they disprove their claim. That doesn't mean they don't have a personal relationship with the Lord.

 I believe Tim Lahaye is one of the biggest frauds in Christianity today in his interpretation of the bible. I think he has done great harm to Christianity with his fictional left behind books, but that does not qualify me to say he knows the Lord or not   That's the difference in opinion from me, being of faith and you (not)? I know my Lord, but I can't prove Him to you or anyone else. He proved Himself to me, and someday He could prove Himself to you, that's what it would take, isn't it?

 A reason I started this discussion was to allow my brothers to see how bad witnessing doesn't help. Many want to go out and carpet bomb the world with Jesus. I just want to wait for Him to convict and use me however He sees fit. I trust He will add to the church and man will have faith in Him, not some kook on the corner.


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## formula1 (Aug 12, 2014)

*Re:*

Good topic, so I'll make a rare appearance over here. 

Do smokers go to heaven? Yes, faster than the rest of us. Ok, I know its a bad joke but I tried.

I am a Christian but I didn't get there easily and had to go through a bout with alcoholism before I finally got there. But you cannot see how I live on here other than the few words I post, so you wouldn't know whether I'm real or counterfeit.  I understand that.

For me, I would have rejected the church, God and the Scriptures because of the never ending legalism I experienced in several churches I attended.  For example, to this day don't understand why it's so unconscionable to have a beer with someone.  I abstain though, so I might have a sweet tea while you have a beer, but I still would enjoy the company. As to the reason I abstain, well, I want others to know Christ through example and when I meet someone, I don't know if they will think less of me, more of me, or nothing at all of my example if I partake. So I abstain for their sake even though I absolutely love the taste of Killian's on draft!

Anyway, to me, their is an irreligious way approach life (as many are here) and there is a religious but legalistic way to approach it.  Then there is what I would consider the right way which is to live for Christ and allow Him to change you from the inside out.  But that's a little beyond the scope of the OP!

My bout with alcoholism eventually was defeated by the never-ending love of my Mother and an eventual encounter that I am sure was with God.  I'll leave it at that!  

But let's look at witnessing honestly!  If someone believed something as I do and refused to tell or better yet, show you(given a real opportunity), wouldn't that be very selfish of them?  In my mind it's the equivalent of a child drowning and you refused to help them.  Now I am not the pushy type nor do I speak on street corners to strangers, but if you ask, I'll give the reason for my hope! 

I wish you all the best!


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## hobbs27 (Aug 12, 2014)

formula1 said:
			
		

> But let's look at witnessing honestly!  If someone believed something as I do and refused to tell or better yet, show you(given a real opportunity), wouldn't that be very selfish of them?  In my mind it's the equivalent of a child drowning and you refused to help them.  Now I am not the pushy type nor do I speak on street corners to strangers, but if you ask, I'll give the reason for my hope!
> 
> I wish you all the best!



Perfect, thanks for the input and testimony. We all have some kind of vex or weakness to overcome. I'm glad you found the Way.

From what I'm hearing here, no one would reject a Christian witnessing when asked to, and I believe that is the way our Lord prefers.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 12, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Anyone ever been to one of those wild game dinners sponsored by a church? I hear they offer a prayer you can quote and be saved by repeating the speakers words.



Been to several.  Never saw it.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 12, 2014)

formula1 said:


> Good topic, so I'll make a rare appearance over here.
> 
> Do smokers go to heaven? Yes, faster than the rest of us. Ok, I know its a bad joke but I tried.
> 
> ...



As always, Well Said.


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## JB0704 (Aug 12, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Never saw it.



Anywhere, or just at wild game feasts?


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> Anywhere, or just at wild game feasts?



Well to be honest I can't say I've ever seen it period except on TV.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 12, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I see a lot of Christians claim to know the bible, but soon as they start talking they disprove their claim. That doesn't mean they don't have a personal relationship with the Lord.
> 
> I believe Tim Lahaye is one of the biggest frauds in Christianity today in his interpretation of the bible. I think he has done great harm to Christianity with his fictional left behind books, but that does not qualify me to say he knows the Lord or not   That's the difference in opinion from me, being of faith and you (not)? I know my Lord, but I can't prove Him to you or anyone else. He proved Himself to me, and someday He could prove Himself to you, that's what it would take, isn't it?
> 
> A reason I started this discussion was to allow my brothers to see how bad witnessing doesn't help. Many want to go out and carpet bomb the world with Jesus. I just want to wait for Him to convict and use me however He sees fit. I trust He will add to the church and man will have faith in Him, not some kook on the corner.



I'm agnostic. I hope to one day find belief, but that won't come for me from leaps of faith. He would have to demonstrate himself in such a way that I couldn't question it for me to come back into the fold, at least as far as Christiandom goes. 

For me it's much more likely that I will one day say, "There is a great Creator," than there is that I will say, "There is a Christian God." 

I think the earth is too dilute with other religions to hold any stock in the notion that Christianity got it right, without being confronted with some amazing evidence. Everything from World Turtles to Shiva to Jesus has shown me that pretty much every quasi intelligent society has manufactured gods to explain away their mysteries and relieve the fear they feel by living in an unknown, and very dangerous, universe. Gods give them a measure of understanding, and semblance of control in the form of prayer even if the answer turns out to be no. 

It's a very appealing image, but the universal lack of consistency, along with the straight parent/child borrowing relationships of rites and rituals, paint a bleak picture for the truth of our understanding of God. 

I hope for the day where I can look at something and be assured that there is a Creator, but I seriously doubt that day will come with any deeper understanding of their motives or desires for us. I liken our existence to a science experiment played out on cosmic scales. 

E=mc^2 here
A dash of energy there
Gravity= X
Electromagnetic Weak force = Y
An expanding existence to mix it all in.

Bake in a cooling universe for ~14 billion years and you might get life. We're just the eventuality of that experiment in my eyes, so there may be a creator, but I seriously doubt he cares what his sea monkeys are doing to themselves, IMO.


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## JB0704 (Aug 12, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well to be honest I can't say I've ever seen it period except on TV.



????  I can't tell you how many times I saw it in church when I was a kid, youth group, then repeated during the altar call in a service as an adult.....the "sinner's prayer."  I thought everybody who had spent some time in church had heard it......heck, I've heard it at about half the funerals I ahve ever attended.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 12, 2014)

Someone once had a construction site porta john ministry. LOL, new tracks each week. Being a Christian, LOL, my version of it, I can see how offensive it must be. Christians approaching athiest as if something were wrong with them. The attitude that I am right in my thinking and you are wrong. That you are incapable of correct reasoning, that you should take note of what says a stranger. The annoyance of them not realizing that they are perceived just like they perceive the JW crowd. The annoyance of them not realizing how they would respond to a Muslim trying to convert them. The assumption that a book is assumed true and the world must acknowledge this. The annoyance of quoting scripture as every response. The offense of believe as I do or burn which also implies that someone you may know, family or other may be suffering at the hands of your loving God. The assumption that if you could only be like me.... all your troubles will be over. etc, etc, etc. Sorry guys. I am embarrased that Christianity has become this. I believe it has strayed greatly from a simple message.


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## drippin' rock (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> ????  I can't tell you how many times I saw it in church when I was a kid, youth group, then repeated during the altar call in a service as an adult.....the "sinner's prayer."  I thought everybody who had spent some time in church had heard it......heck, I've heard it at about half the funerals I ahve ever attended.



Every head bowed, every eye closed, if you are here today and don't know Jesus, and want too, just quietly lift your hand.  Nobody's looking...... That's it, yes sir.... Yes sir.... There in the back.... Good. Now if you raised your hand pray with me this simple prayer.  Lord, I am empty. I need you in my life. I open my heart and invite you in. I want to live for you. Amen. 

Stand as we sing all 6 stanzas of Just as I am. (Twice if someone actually comes down)


Something like that?


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 12, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> ????  I can't tell you how many times I saw it in church when I was a kid, youth group, then repeated during the altar call in a service as an adult.....the "sinner's prayer."  I thought everybody who had spent some time in church had heard it......heck, I've heard it at about half the funerals I ahve ever attended.



I have too and feel it shouldn't be a part of funerals.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 12, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Every head bowed, every eye closed, if you are here today and don't know Jesus, and want too, just quietly lift your hand.  Nobody's looking...... That's it, yes sir.... Yes sir.... There in the back.... Good. Now if you raised your hand pray with me this simple prayer.  Lord, I am empty. I need you in my life. I open my heart and invite you in. I want to live for you. Amen.
> 
> Stand as we sing all 6 stanzas of Just as I am. (Twice if someone actually comes down)
> 
> ...


We must have gone to the same Baptist church. Our preacher would usually tell a sad story about a boy and his dog, just before the invitation. I almost always missed the first quarter of the Dallas Cowboy's game because of "Just as I am" over and over and over...


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 12, 2014)

The average man on the street believes that Christianity is a religion that imposes a particular morality with specific ethical behavior. He has concluded that "a Christian is one who lives by certain rules and regulations imposed upon him by divine or ecclesiastically dictated 'thou shalts' and 'thou shalt nots,' and that behavioral conformity to these moral codes of conduct is what the Christian strives to perform in order to please and/or appease God." The tragic part of this misconception is that Christian religion has "faked" the world into believing that such is the essence of Christianity.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotmor.html


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 12, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> We must have gone to the same Baptist church. Our preacher would usually tell a sad story about a boy and his dog, just before the invitation. I almost always missed the first quarter of the Dallas Cowboy's game because of "Just as I am" over and over and over...



Almost like the motivational force is the song instead of God.
I went to the same Church too!


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 12, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Someone once had a construction site porta john ministry. LOL, new tracks each week. Being a Christian, LOL, my version of it, I can see how offensive it must be. Christians approaching athiest as if something were wrong with them. The attitude that I am right in my thinking and you are wrong. That you are incapable of correct reasoning, that you should take note of what says a stranger. The annoyance of them not realizing that they are perceived just like they perceive the JW crowd. The annoyance of them not realizing how they would respond to a Muslim trying to convert them. The assumption that a book is assumed true and the world must acknowledge this. The annoyance of quoting scripture as every response. The offense of believe as I do or burn which also implies that someone you may know, family or other may be suffering at the hands of your loving God. The assumption that if you could only be like me.... all your troubles will be over. etc, etc, etc. Sorry guys. I am embarrased that Christianity has become this. I believe it has strayed greatly from a simple message.



I think I mentioned this before but my sister tried to convey to our cousin, after losing a daughter, that if God was a part of her life(our cousin), her troubles would be over.
This went terribly wrong. My sister's heart was in the right place but her timing & delivery was wrong. Like someone suggested, maybe more education is needed in how to witness properly.


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## JB0704 (Aug 13, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> Every head bowed, every eye closed, if you are here today and don't know Jesus, and want too, just quietly lift your hand.  Nobody's looking...... That's it, yes sir.... Yes sir.... There in the back.... Good. Now if you raised your hand pray with me this simple prayer.  Lord, I am empty. I need you in my life. I open my heart and invite you in. I want to live for you. Amen.
> 
> Stand as we sing all 6 stanzas of Just as I am. (Twice if someone actually comes down)
> 
> ...




Yep, that's the one, almost verbatim.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 13, 2014)

JB0704 said:


> ????  I can't tell you how many times I saw it in church when I was a kid, youth group, then repeated during the altar call in a service as an adult.....the "sinner's prayer."  I thought everybody who had spent some time in church had heard it......heck, I've heard it at about half the funerals I ahve ever attended.



I have trouble with that whole concept I guess.  I know it's based off Romans 10:9 but it's a heart confession more so than a verbal one in my opinion, and a very personal one.


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## formula1 (Aug 13, 2014)

*Re:*



Artfuldodger said:


> The average man on the street believes that Christianity is a religion that imposes a particular morality with specific ethical behavior. He has concluded that "a Christian is one who lives by certain rules and regulations imposed upon him by divine or ecclesiastically dictated 'thou shalts' and 'thou shalt nots,' and that behavioral conformity to these moral codes of conduct is what the Christian strives to perform in order to please and/or appease God." The tragic part of this misconception is that Christian religion has "faked" the world into believing that such is the essence of Christianity.
> 
> Art, a lot of Christianity has done this, but not all.  We come to Jesus not to live a moral life, but rather to fall in love with Him, and allow Him to live His life through us.  In short, the purpose is for Christ to make your heart look like God's heart.  When you are there, you are complete in Him. I'm not there yet but hopefully He will continue working on me. God Bless!
> 
> ...


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 13, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Someone once had a construction site porta john ministry. LOL, new tracks each week. Being a Christian, LOL, my version of it, I can see how offensive it must be. Christians approaching athiest as if something were wrong with them. The attitude that I am right in my thinking and you are wrong. That you are incapable of correct reasoning, that you should take note of what says a stranger. The annoyance of them not realizing that they are perceived just like they perceive the JW crowd. The annoyance of them not realizing how they would respond to a Muslim trying to convert them. The assumption that a book is assumed true and the world must acknowledge this. The annoyance of quoting scripture as every response. The offense of believe as I do or burn which also implies that someone you may know, family or other may be suffering at the hands of your loving God. The assumption that if you could only be like me.... all your troubles will be over. etc, etc, etc. Sorry guys. I am embarrased that Christianity has become this. I believe it has strayed greatly from a simple message.



Excellent post and excellent points. 

I heard on the radio, a shock jock show so I took it with a grain of salt, that anyone who is an atheist is mentally defective. That since they don't worship God they must worship themselves and, as a result, are narcissistic in addition to mentally defective. He repeated it saying it was his true opinion and that he wasn't trying to be offensive, so I doubt he was just doing it to stir the pot.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> I heard on the radio, a shock jock show so I took it with a grain of salt, that anyone who is an atheist is mentally defective. That since they don't worship God they must worship themselves and, as a result, are narcissistic in addition to mentally defective. He repeated it saying it was his true opinion and that he wasn't trying to be offensive, so I doubt he was just doing it to stir the pot.


The Apostle Paul taught this as well. It is Biblical doctrine.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 13, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> The Apostle Paul taught this as well. It is Biblical doctrine.



Where? I don't recall seeing it. Is it another one of those interpretation thingys?


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Where? I don't recall seeing it. Is it another one of those interpretation thingys?


Both questions are answered in 1 Corinthians 2:7-16.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 13, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> Both questions are answered in 1 Corinthians 2:7-16.



Thankya, sir. 

I would consider that an interpretation to say that non-believers are "mentally" deficient. You could say we're "spiritually" deficient, sure, since we don't understand Him and understanding supposedly comes from the spirit, but I don't see the leap to mental deficiency.


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## 660griz (Aug 13, 2014)

I guess saying atheist are mentally deficient/defective is one way of putting it. 
I have said the same for folks that don't think like me. Of course, mentally defective is not exactly the correct verbiage. I think, 'wired' differently, is much better.
I think that folks that surf off the coast of South Africa are 'mentally defective'. Cuz' I wouldn't do it.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 13, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> Thankya, sir.
> 
> I would consider that an interpretation to say that non-believers are "mentally" deficient. You could say we're "spiritually" deficient, sure, since we don't understand Him and understanding supposedly comes from the spirit, but I don't see the leap to mental deficiency.


I see the "shock jock" as saying that Atheist are too mentally deficient to worship God. Paul, I believe, is saying that man is too mentally deficient to know or discover God. He already said this in 1:21, "Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe." (NLT)


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 13, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> I see the "shock jock" as saying that Atheist are too mentally deficient to worship God. Paul, I believe, is saying that man is too mentally deficient to know or discover God. He already said this in 1:21, "Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe." (NLT)



That could be what he meant, but either way it's intellectually dishonest to just leave it as that, in my opinion. 

I guess it did what it was supposed to do, and shocked me that a shock jock who's about as vulgar as you can get on open airwaves these days not only believes in God but also believes me to be mentally deficient for not believing in his God. 

It just left a very bad taste in my mouth considering that A) if I wanted to listen to testimony on God then I would listen to gospel stations, and B) his vitriolic statements towards those who don't believe like he does, since he even acknowledged that I rate lower than people who believe in a different God, made me change the station from a show I otherwise like very much. 

I guess I'm a little but like the guy who played Chef on South Park, right now, since all was well and good making fun of people up until he made fun of his people. Not saying I'm an atheist, I just don't think that this guy was joking, nor do I think he makes a distinction between atheists and agnostics. 

We'll see what tomorrow holds I guess.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 13, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> That could be what he meant, but either way it's intellectually dishonest to just leave it as that, in my opinion.
> 
> I guess it did what it was supposed to do, and shocked me that a shock jock who's about as vulgar as you can get on open airwaves these days not only believes in God but also believes me to be mentally deficient for not believing in his God.
> 
> ...


I'm kind of surprised that got under your skin.
It makes me chuckle. Why? Because his statement proves he is mentally deficient.

And Im glad Chef didn't marry the wife from he11. She wasn't worth tree.fiddy.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 13, 2014)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm kind of surprised that got under your skin.
> It makes me chuckle. Why? Because his statement proves he is mentally deficient.
> 
> And Im glad Chef didn't marry the wife from he11. She wasn't worth tree.fiddy.



It made me change the channel. I just don't feel like being insulted on the way to work. I get enough of that from 9-5. 

Then they mocked the people who call for all religions to co-exist, and have the nerve to call people who don't believe self-centered and mentally deficient. 

It was more irony, ignorance, and bigotry than I could stand pre-8AM.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 13, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> The Apostle Paul taught this as well. It is Biblical doctrine.


Hmmm, I can't agree because Paul is referring not to atheist but rather those who think they have obtained a righteousness that is deserving of heaven. We rarely see anything in the bible referring to athiest


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## hobbs27 (Aug 13, 2014)

The mentally deficient claim comes from both sides. It is a mute argument and childish. Every believer at one time or moment was a non-believer.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 13, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> I see the "shock jock" as saying that Atheist are too mentally deficient to worship God. Paul, I believe, is saying that man is too mentally deficient to know or discover God. He already said this in 1:21, "Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe." (NLT)



I guess that could be another way of saying totally depraved but mentally deficient is a little harsh. I'll have to think about that one.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> Hmmm, I can't agree because Paul is referring not to atheist but rather those who think they have obtained a righteousness that is deserving of heaven. We rarely see anything in the bible referring to athiest


You are probably right, just don't include me in your "We". All Atheist are unbelievers. When Paul is addressing the condition of unbelievers, this would include the condition of the Atheist.


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 14, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> You are probably right, just don't include me in your "We". All Atheist are unbelievers. When Paul is addressing the condition of unbelievers, this would include the condition of the Atheist.



But not all non-believers are atheist.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> The mentally deficient claim comes from both sides. It is a mute argument and childish. Every believer at one time or moment was a non-believer.


And every believer at one time was mentally deficient, mentally blind or retarded, and could not discover or know God while in this condition.


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## gemcgrew (Aug 14, 2014)

StripeRR HunteRR said:


> But not all non-believers are atheist.


So what? Did I say otherwise?


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## StriperrHunterr (Aug 14, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> So what? Did I say otherwise?



No, you didn't. It's a distinction that matters, though.


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## 1gr8bldr (Aug 14, 2014)

gemcgrew said:


> You are probably right, just don't include me in your "We". All Atheist are unbelievers. When Paul is addressing the condition of unbelievers, this would include the condition of the Atheist.


But Paul was addressing those unbeliever of Christ, addressing mostly those who believed in God, just not in his Messiah. What they did not believe was that the law would not save them


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