# Suppressors now legal



## elmer_fudd (Aug 7, 2014)

Just picked up a copy of the new regs, and it says suppressors are now legal for hunting on private land!

I never thought seriously about getting one before, but will look into one for my AR.


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## Ajohnson0587 (Aug 7, 2014)

better start looking for one now! I bought mine last yr in sept and have been waiting on my tax stamps since then. hopefully they will be showing up ay day now!


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## RamblinWreck (Aug 7, 2014)

Yeah, my Saker 7.62 suppressor tax stamp went "pending" in July, so I probably won't see it until Feb "15. I do have a .223 can and will use that soon on some piggies. Just need to get written permission from my lease owner to be legal first.


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## Ytka (Aug 7, 2014)

I'm just waiting for them to put Form 4's back on the efile system. I heard from a guy the other day that had an efile Form 1 for an SBR come back in 39 days.


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## GunnSmokeer (Aug 7, 2014)

*pressure DNR*

the actual law says that silencers or suppressors are legal on private land with the owner's permission.

They're also legal on those public lands designated as approved for silencer use by DNR, but so far the Department has not approved of any WMAs or other public hunting lands for suppressor-equipped firearm hunting.

I think we should pressure DNR to change that and name some public hunting areas as silencer-legal.


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## lbzdually (Aug 8, 2014)

I've never browsed suppressors before, but since they are legal for hunting, I am really looking into it because I want my kids to be able to hunt without killing their hearing and having this awful ringing.  I saw a place in Georgia that makes them, and they want nearly $600 for a basic one.  You can get entire AR-15 for that, with tons of moving parts.  Does anyone else feel they are taking advantage of the whole hard to get aspect to artificially drive up prices?


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## biker13 (Aug 8, 2014)

$200 tax stamp,register,and a long wait.Heck no I never want one


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## Ajohnson0587 (Aug 8, 2014)

Mine was $650 its a AAC 556SD.


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## Ytka (Aug 8, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> I've never browsed suppressors before, but since they are legal for hunting, I am really looking into it because I want my kids to be able to hunt without killing their hearing and having this awful ringing.  I saw a place in Georgia that makes them, and they want nearly $600 for a basic one.  You can get entire AR-15 for that, with tons of moving parts.  Does anyone else feel they are taking advantage of the whole hard to get aspect to artificially drive up prices?



It's called capitalism and the free market. They charge what they have to charge to make a profit. If the number of sales went up, you'd see the prices come down. How many people do you personally know that own a suppressor? I know quite a few hardcore gun guys and only know a handful that own suppressors. If they charged $200 per suppressor, they couldn't stay in business. 

How could the manufacturers be taking advantage of the "hard to get" situation. They're not the ones causing the wait and I'd bet you anything you want to bet that they wish you could walk in and walk out with one. They'd sell a lot more of them that way.


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## bronco611 (Aug 9, 2014)

ear plugs $.50 and no tax stamp. ear muffs with electronic noise cancellation $19 at wally world and no $200 tax stamp required. I know it requires an extra second to put them on. I guess that some people just gotta have it cause it is out there.


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## Ytka (Aug 9, 2014)

bronco611 said:


> ear plugs $.50 and no tax stamp. ear muffs with electronic noise cancellation $19 at wally world and no $200 tax stamp required. I know it requires an extra second to put them on. I guess that some people just gotta have it cause it is out there.



Hunting with night vision is where you really see the difference. The suppressor cuts the muzzle flash way down and confuses the hogs enough to give you a little more time for follow-up shots.


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## Ajohnson0587 (Aug 9, 2014)

bronco611 said:


> ear plugs $.50 and no tax stamp. ear muffs with electronic noise cancellation $19 at wally world and no $200 tax stamp required. I know it requires an extra second to put them on. I guess that some people just gotta have it cause it is out there.



No different then someone who buys a base model pickup truck compared to the guy who buy the top of the line with all the bells and whistles. If you want it and can afford it, then buy it and the same goes for the guy that wants the base with crank windows and cloth seats. 
I bought mine before there were talks of allowing them for hunting, I bought it because #1 I wanted it and #2 because the idea of having a suppressed AR15 is AWESOME!! Now that I can use it for hunting is just a bonus...


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## munchie3409 (Aug 10, 2014)

Are you able to use suppressor on military bases such as Ft Stewart?


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## Ytka (Aug 10, 2014)

munchie3409 said:


> Are you able to use suppressor on military bases such as Ft Stewart?



I don't know for sure, but it will probably be left up to the command.


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## lbzdually (Aug 10, 2014)

Ytka said:


> It's called capitalism and the free market. They charge what they have to charge to make a profit. If the number of sales went up, you'd see the prices come down. How many people do you personally know that own a suppressor? I know quite a few hardcore gun guys and only know a handful that own suppressors. If they charged $200 per suppressor, they couldn't stay in business.
> 
> How could the manufacturers be taking advantage of the "hard to get" situation. They're not the ones causing the wait and I'd bet you anything you want to bet that they wish you could walk in and walk out with one. They'd sell a lot more of them that way.



So you think a market in which the government decides who and when someone can get something is free-market?  The ones selling them know this and they know they can charge whatever they want.  How do you know they couldn't stay in business at $200 per suppressor?   There are only 2 costs involved, the raw material and labor.   Since you can get a 6 ft long piece of 1" stainless rod for $231, that's less than $40 for a foot long piece to mill.  Here's a whole stainless barrel for an AR-15 for $269.  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/794051/ar-stoner-barrel-ar-15-223-remington-wylde-medium-contour-1-in-8-twist-18-fluted-stainless-steel

So I'm supposed to believe that a full 18" stainless barrel, completely rifled is cheaper to make than a 12 inch suppressor?


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## rosewood (Aug 11, 2014)

RamblinWreck said:


> Yeah, my Saker 7.62 suppressor tax stamp went "pending" in July, so I probably won't see it until Feb "15. I do have a .223 can and will use that soon on some piggies. Just need to get written permission from my lease owner to be legal first.



My permission slip I made up states that I can hunt, bait, trap during any season pursuant to the current in effect Georgia Hunting Regulations.  I am covered.


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## Pavy (Aug 11, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> So you think a market in which the government decides who and when someone can get something is free-market?  The ones selling them know this and they know they can charge whatever they want.  How do you know they couldn't stay in business at $200 per suppressor?   *There are only 2 costs involved, the raw material and labor.*   Since you can get a 6 ft long piece of 1" stainless rod for $231, that's less than $40 for a foot long piece to mill.  Here's a whole stainless barrel for an AR-15 for $269.  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/794051/ar-stoner-barrel-ar-15-223-remington-wylde-medium-contour-1-in-8-twist-18-fluted-stainless-steel
> 
> So I'm supposed to believe that a full 18" stainless barrel, completely rifled is cheaper to make than a 12 inch suppressor?



Do you know how a suppressor works?  Do you know how to design/construct one and make sure the baffels are correctly tuned in order to cause the sound wave to become inverted in order to cause a phase cancellation with the original sound wave?  You state only 2 costs involved...right there that shows you have no idea...Do you know how much research and developement costs went in to to figuring all this out?

If so, please provide that information here and then we can have a discussion on how much a company has invested in the developement of a product and how much they should be charging in order to recoup their investment and to actually make a profit.  (after that, we can all build our own suppressors with the technical expertise you have provided for us) 

Also, do not forget there are many other costs involved besides materials and labor...overhead (rent for manufactuing facility, power bill, water bill, insurance, employee benefits, obama care requirements  ,etc.), marketing, advertising, legal counsel, continuing R&D funding for product improvement and future products and the list goes on...


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## Ytka (Aug 11, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> So you think a market in which the government decides who and when someone can get something is free-market?  The ones selling them know this and they know they can charge whatever they want.  How do you know they couldn't stay in business at $200 per suppressor?   There are only 2 costs involved, the raw material and labor.   Since you can get a 6 ft long piece of 1" stainless rod for $231, that's less than $40 for a foot long piece to mill.  Here's a whole stainless barrel for an AR-15 for $269.  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/794051/ar-stoner-barrel-ar-15-223-remington-wylde-medium-contour-1-in-8-twist-18-fluted-stainless-steel
> 
> So I'm supposed to believe that a full 18" stainless barrel, completely rifled is cheaper to make than a 12 inch suppressor?



It's government influence hindering the free market, but the process of the manufacturers producing and selling the suppressors are the closest we can get to free market. How does your question impact the reality of the situation? The manufacturer builds a product and wants to sell the product. That manufacturer has to compete with other manufacturers to sell the product. Their cost, quality, reputation, etc influences buyers. 

AR parts are nowhere near a good comparison to suppressors. The AR market is flooded with parts and complete weapons. The suppressor market is nothing like that. It's called supply and demand. Lots of people want to, are capable of, and are willing to buy AR parts but there is an excess of parts. If there is more of a product than there is a demand for it, prices go down. Fewer people are willing or able to buy suppressors, but they are willing to pay for it. The manufacturer has to balance the number of actual customers against their manufacturing and administrative costs. If they were so cheap to make, you'd have someone come in and undercut everyone else to go for a quantity of sales profit over a max profit per sale. Now if the actual demand for suppressors went through the roof, you'd see the prices fall as low as they could reasonably fall.


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## lbzdually (Aug 11, 2014)

Pavy said:


> Do you know how a suppressor works?  Do you know how to design/construct one and make sure the baffels are correctly tuned in order to cause the sound wave to become inverted in order to cause a phase cancellation with the original sound wave?  You state only 2 costs involved...right there that shows you have no idea...Do you know how much research and developement costs went in to to figuring all this out?
> 
> If so, please provide that information here and then we can have a discussion on how much a company has invested in the developement of a product and how much they should be charging in order to recoup their investment and to actually make a profit.  (after that, we can all build our own suppressors with the technical expertise you have provided for us)
> 
> Also, do not forget there are many other costs involved besides materials and labor...overhead (rent for manufactuing facility, power bill, water bill, insurance, employee benefits, obama care requirements  ,etc.), marketing, advertising, legal counsel, continuing R&D funding for product improvement and future products and the list goes on...



All those costs you listed, well anyone who builds a complete barrel has to do each one of those things also.  I guess all an AR barrel manufacturer has to do is make a barrel a certain length and rest just takes care of itself, right?  Research of how to make a suppressor work right should be repeatable, correct?  Meaning if you make one for a 18 inch barreled rifle in .223 caliber at (X) velocity in FPS, then the physics will remain the same of each corresponding baffle to attain a certain decibel in sound muffling ability.  Unless you're saying the laws of physics doesn't apply equally and is in an ever-fluctuating limbo, but that doesn't correspond to what other suppressor owners have said.  They say to buy one that is at least a .30 cal so you can use it in several different guns, instead of buying one for just a .223.  So if the suppressor was so specific that it could only work with one particular gun and one particular bullet and powder load, why are other owners saying that is not the case.

I'm thinking you either work for a suppressor manufacturer or you have bought one and seek to justify your poor financial decision by saying I don't understand supply and demand economics.  No, I simply have enough sense to question where I will put right at $1000 of my hard earned money.  I refuse to buy something that is way overpriced just to say I have one.   That is economics in it's simplest- let the other poor shlub pay out the nose so those of us who have enough sense to ask why and then wait for the right deal, don't have to.  That's why some will pay $1500 for that new HDTV, when those with patience and a sense of value will wait until it's $500.


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## lbzdually (Aug 11, 2014)

Ytka said:


> It's government influence hindering the free market, but the process of the manufacturers producing and selling the suppressors are the closest we can get to free market. How does your question impact the reality of the situation? The manufacturer builds a product and wants to sell the product. That manufacturer has to compete with other manufacturers to sell the product. Their cost, quality, reputation, etc influences buyers.
> 
> AR parts are nowhere near a good comparison to suppressors. The AR market is flooded with parts and complete weapons. The suppressor market is nothing like that. It's called supply and demand. Lots of people want to, are capable of, and are willing to buy AR parts but there is an excess of parts. If there is more of a product than there is a demand for it, prices go down. Fewer people are willing or able to buy suppressors, but they are willing to pay for it. The manufacturer has to balance the number of actual customers against their manufacturing and administrative costs. If they were so cheap to make, you'd have someone come in and undercut everyone else to go for a quantity of sales profit over a max profit per sale. Now if the actual demand for suppressors went through the roof, you'd see the prices fall as low as they could reasonably fall.



How can the market catch up, when the government is taking upwards of 4 months to approve the tax stamp for each one?  Then, why aren't manufacturers of suppressors pushing to repeal the whole ATF bureaucracy  to allow for a higher volume of sales?


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## Ytka (Aug 12, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> How can the market catch up, when the government is taking upwards of 4 months to approve the tax stamp for each one?  Then, why aren't manufacturers of suppressors pushing to repeal the whole ATF bureaucracy  to allow for a higher volume of sales?



It's actually closer to 10 months these days. Maybe this question will help you understand. Do you think the manufacturers really care how long it takes you to get your hands on the suppressor after you pay for it? Other than the NFA being a deterrent, anyway. It doesn't affect them. You don't pay for a suppressor when you get it. You pay for it when you start the process. 

If you don't think manufacturers have been trying to get the NFA repealed or amended, you're crazy. The problem is no one, and I mean no one, will touch it. No one is brave enough to be "the Congressman who tried to put machine guns and silencers on the street".

For the record, I don't have any affiliation with any suppressor manufacturer nor do I own one.


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## Pavy (Aug 12, 2014)

I too have no affiliation with any supressor manufacturer nor have I ever bought one or owned one.

You are the only one comparing AR parts to suppressors, but I will tell you that no, someone making an AR barrel does not have to do any R&D...the specs for a barrel are public knowledge and are available to just look up...so if you are a machinist and have the proper tools and the raw material, you can just crank one out.  Not so with suppressors.  Manufacturers keep a tight lid on the specifics of their products as they have invested a lot of money in developing them and want to protect them (ie file a patent).  Now there are companies out there that buy a product from another company and reverse engineer and then try to recreate that product and make enough changes as to not have a patent infringment so they can try to sell for less that the company they are basically stealing from, but that occurs across all industry and is not unique to suppressors. And they usually are producing an inferior product.

And yes...once one particular design is complete, the manufacturing process is repeatable...but I do not understand what point you are trying to make there.  So that now the R&D stage of the product development is done, the company should just write off that money and not recoup through sales??? That is not how industry works my friend.  Also, sales of existing products have to help fund R&D for product improvment and development of new and unique products.  This is the only way to continue to stay competitive in any type of market.

In regard to buying a .30 cal can for use with a 5.56/.223...yes, that is doable, but using a .30 cal can for a 5.56/.223 may not be as effective as using a can made specifically for the 5.56/.223...also the .30 cal can will be larger/heavier than a 5.56/.223 can...there are trade offs for everything and as long as you are willing to live with them, that is no one's business but your own.

Bottom line is that no one is forcing you to buy a suppressor.  Yes, it is your choice.  If the price point ever reaches a level you are comfortable with I hope you give it shot (pun intended).


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## Ajohnson0587 (Aug 12, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> I'm thinking you either work for a suppressor manufacturer or you have bought one and seek to justify your poor financial decision by saying I don't understand supply and demand economics.  No, I simply have enough sense to question where I will put right at $1000 of my hard earned money.  I refuse to buy something that is way overpriced just to say I have one.   That is economics in it's simplest- let the other poor shlub pay out the nose so those of us who have enough sense to ask why and then wait for the right deal, don't have to.  That's why some will pay $1500 for that new HDTV, when those with patience and a sense of value will wait until it's $500.



I am a suppressor owner, but do not work for a manufacture. I don't need to justify my purchase to anyone because I paid for it with my hard earned money and in my opinion it wasn't a poor financial decision in my book but to each his own! people always want to say what others should and should do or what they think is best option for someone. which is fine if someone ask for an opinion, most people though do the opposite.

the same could be said for someone that smokes, dip's, or drinks alcohol everyday after work. is it any of my business no, and even though I feel these things are a complete waste of money A.K.A a "Poor Financial decision" its not my money nor did I earn it so who am I to say its a Poor financial decision on someone else's income that I know nothing about. If some chooses to purchase a $1500 TV, $1000 suppressor, or a $5.00 pack of smokes. either way its only a poor financial decision if the person purchasing the suppressor, TV, Beer, Smokes, and ETC... says it was a poor decision on their part 

everyone is entitled to their own opinion though...


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## GADAWGS (Aug 15, 2014)

lbzdually said:


> I've never browsed suppressors before, but since they are legal for hunting, I am really looking into it because I want my kids to be able to hunt without killing their hearing and having this awful ringing.  I saw a place in Georgia that makes them, and they want nearly $600 for a basic one.  You can get entire AR-15 for that, with tons of moving parts.  Does anyone else feel they are taking advantage of the whole hard to get aspect to artificially drive up prices?



If you are talking about Advanced Armament in Norcross, that is about the going price and theirs are top of the line. All of our sniper rifles where I worked were outfitted with them. Impressive cans


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## Hunter-Steve (Aug 22, 2014)

I paid $4300 for the hearing aids I need due to all the shooting I have done. There are times that stopping to put on hearing protection was not an option. So it was easy to justify purchasing a good suppressor at 1/4 the cost of a new set of hearing aids that only last a few years. 

There are added benefits to the suppressor. Besides just reduced the sound. You will have reduced recoil, higher muzzle velocity and a more accurate weapon. 

If you get a chance to shoot one I highly recommend it. But do your research. Not all suppressors are made equal. There are also some very good inexpensive ones (HunterTown) but they are heavy. 

If you want very quiet, lightweight and serviceable version,  you should check out Templar Tactical. I have one and when at a range with others that have suppressors they always comment on how much quieter this can is.


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## RamblinWreck (Aug 22, 2014)

Suppressors will neither increase muzzle velocity nor reduce recoil. That is physically impossible to have both. An increase in muzzle velocity will result in increased recoil due to the laws of physics, specifically the conservation of momentum. 

As for increased (or decreased) accuracy, anytime you hang a mass on the end of the barrel it is going to change the harmonics and can definitely affect barrel whip, possibly resulting in a zero shift. This is demonstrated by barrel tuning devices such as the Browning B.O.S.S.

I have several suppressors and shoot them a lot so these effects are what I have personally observed, not just theory.

Another fact I have observed is pigs will skedaddle just as fast from a suppressed rifle shot as they do an unsuppressed one - sometimes right at you.

Off to hopefully get some sausage tomorrow night using my thermal scope on a farm field near Milledgeville. Still waiting for my .308 suppressor stamp, so I'll be shooting unsuppressed. Good luck to all the hunters.


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## Dusty Roads (Sep 16, 2014)

I remember repacking my old MX bike silencer with fiberglass when it wore out,it worked.HEY-I wonder if the Honda 125 Elsinore silencer would work!!!
 Lots of livestock near me like to run full bore at the sound of a rifle.....squirrels too.Would be nice to have a silencer just for that.
 Wonder if it's cheaper to get a manufacture liscense and make your own....


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