# Should Christians own and carry Guns?



## vanguard1 (Nov 20, 2010)

this should be a good topic for all of us,  I believe in having and carrying guns, i have a georgia weapons license. and until i was layed off i was a gun collector. how do you guys feel? and please only serious responces , we do not need to start a problem with this thread.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 20, 2010)

Well, since the King Jimmy doesn't specifically mention firearms of any kind...it must be OK.


----------



## Lowjack (Nov 20, 2010)

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)


----------



## The Original Rooster (Nov 20, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> this should be a good topic for all of us,  I believe in having and carrying guns, i have a georgia weapons license. and until i was layed off i was a gun collector. how do you guys feel?



Christians should only carry guns when they're drinking and speeding.


----------



## The Original Rooster (Nov 20, 2010)

And now for my serious answer: This Christian does carry.


----------



## DS7418 (Nov 20, 2010)

I have a GA. CCP permit,, because I live around a bunch of church-goers and don't trust them as far as I can throw em..


----------



## Ronnie T (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm not a carrier but I will be in the near future.
Boat ramps at 8 pm can be kinda dangerous.


----------



## DS7418 (Nov 20, 2010)

My opinion on shooting thugs is simple,, I will send them to God,, and if he sends them back then I won't shoot them again,, he knows who is guilty...


----------



## **k9** (Nov 20, 2010)

Stupid people,  non-Christian or Christian should not carry a gun.  Also, there are others that it would be better if they did not carry for other reasons. 

That being said, back to the subject of should Christians carry.  If a person is stupid before they become a Christian, just are just a stupid Christian and most probably should not carry.

If the Christian can handle it mentally, safely, not violating the word of God or man's laws, and  it does not go against their conscience  and they would only use a weapon for protection as a last resort, then their decision should be respected.


----------



## DS7418 (Nov 20, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Stupid people,  non-Christian or Christian should not carry a gun.  Also, there are others that it would be better if they did not carry for other reasons.
> 
> That being said, back to the subject of should Christians carry.  If a person is stupid before they become a Christian, just are just a stupid Christian and most probably should not carry.
> 
> If the Christian can handle it mentally, safely, not violating the word of God or man's laws, and  it does not go against their conscience  and they would only use a weapon for protection as a last resort, then their decision should be respected.



 I agree 100% with what he said.. You can't fix STUPID!!


----------



## apoint (Nov 20, 2010)

What ever happened to turn the other cheek croud that use to hang out here?? I guess we can forgive a perpetrator after we shoot them. I for one am a very forgiving person but I do advocate carrying gun's and I never leave home without a knife also.
 If I can help it, my family wont loose their provider because of a crack head needing a fix.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 20, 2010)

apoint said:


> What ever happened to turn the other cheek croud that use to hang out here?? I guess we can forgive a perpetrator after we shoot them. I for one am a very forgiving person but I do advocate carrying gun's and I never leave home without a knife also.
> If I can help it, my family wont loose their provider because of a crack head needing a fix.



I agree, Cheeks you can turn and that for a slap.  You should not take a life for a slap, you should turn the other cheek (or forgive that).

BUT, HOW MANY LIVES DO YOU HAVE? If someone is attempting to take your life, you are not asked to turn the other cheek.

You should compare a cheek with a cheek and a life with a life when considering what to do.


----------



## ronpasley (Nov 20, 2010)

I own a gun but I do not carry it. I hope and pray and believe if something comes to the point of a gun needed I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will take care of the situation. There have been men that carry gun's and have lost there lifes, there have been men with out gun's that are still here today.


----------



## MX5HIGH (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes, and I do.


----------



## CAL (Nov 20, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> I own a gun but I do not carry it. I hope and pray and believe if something comes to the point of a gun needed I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will take care of the situation. There have been men that carry gun's and have lost there lifes, there have been men with out gun's that are still here today.



I believe the Lord gave me a brain to use not only to provide for my family but to protect them also.I believe this is what Jesus was speaking of when he said to "sell your cloak and go buy a sword".I believe Jesus was telling his disciples to be ready should the need arise .I hope the Lord will give me the correct decision if the need to protect my family should arise.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 20, 2010)

I am very thankful that when that point came that a gun was needed to take care of the situation at: Auschwitz-Birkenau Extermination and labor camp, Alderney, Amersfoort, Arbeitsdorf, Banjica, Bardufoss, BeÅ‚Å¼ec Extermination camp, Bergen-Belsen, Berlin-Marzahn, Bernburg, Bogdanovka, Buchenwald, CheÅ‚mno
(Kulmhof) Extermination camp, Jasenovac concentration camp Extermination camp , Majdanek(KZ Lublin) Extermination camp, Maly Trostenets Extermination camp, Natzweiler-Struthof Sobibór(Struthof) extermination camp, Sajmiste Extermination camp,   Treblinka Extermination camp, too many more to list all here; that many Christians knew what to do with a gun, cannons, swords, and other weapons they had and did it!!
At least some of my people were saved from the fiery furnaces, and delivered from the hands of the Nazis.

Anyone can point to a story where someone died even though they used a seatbelt, airbag, helmet, or a handgun, etc.   War is like that  too.  Some people refused to fight or to pick up the weapons of war, even to help deliver millions from a sure death! But thank God for those who did. 
Ec 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
 Ec 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 Mr 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. 


 Lu 11:21 *When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace*:


----------



## **k9** (Nov 20, 2010)

*Jesus is NOT the WIMPY person as taught by many today!  Rather, He is the MIGHTY God!*

There are some that think since Jesus humbled himself as the Lamb of God and allowed himself to be beaten, mocked, spit upon, and to die on a cross,  that the world can treat him like that now. Jesus suffered and died in my place once.

Jesus Christ is NOT the WIMPY Jesus that is portrayed in some church buildings by some WIMPY,  delicate men or silly women.
Jesus is a man of war, captain of the Lord's host, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Mighty God, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Ex 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Ps 144:1  Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and Re 19:11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

 Re 19:12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Re 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
 Re 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 Re 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 my fingers to fight:
 Re 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Re 17:14  *These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings:* and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Re 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Isa 42:13  The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.


----------



## Georgia Hard Hunter (Nov 20, 2010)

God helps those you help themselves


----------



## apoint (Nov 20, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> God helps those you help themselves



I guess you know thats not in the bible?


----------



## apoint (Nov 20, 2010)

They dont call Him the LION OF JUDA for nothing.


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 21, 2010)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> God helps those you help themselves



?


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> this should be a good topic for all of us,  I believe in having and carrying guns, i have a georgia weapons license. and until i was layed off i was a gun collector. how do you guys feel? and please only serious responces , we do not need to start a problem with this thread.



I think God would frown upon it if he were real.


----------



## The Original Rooster (Nov 21, 2010)

Christ used this analogy to explain his second coming. Why use this analogy if he wasn't also condoning the use of force for self defense?

"Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.  But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.  Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Matthew 24:42-44, NKJV


----------



## **k9** (Nov 21, 2010)

*God said, "I am" you said, "If he is were real"*



Six million dollar ham said:


> I think God would frown upon it if he were real.



I thought this was a Christian forum, but obviously there may be some who don't believe there is a God.

Here is a verse from the word of God (I know you probably don't believe the Christian bible is the word of God).  I certainly want argue with you, believe or don't believe.

 Lu 11:21 When a strong man *armed *keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I think God would frown upon it if he were real.


 
Based on what?


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

**k9** said:


> I thought this was a Christian forum, but obviously there may be some who don't believe there is a God.



You're confusing this forum with the Christianity and Judaism forum.    That's where everyone agrees and e-pats each other on the back.  Here in the Spiritual Discussions and Study forum, most everyone agrees and e-pats each other on the back and then gets bent out of shape when somebody disagrees.  



**k9** said:


> Here is a verse from the word of God (I know you probably don't believe the Christian bible is the word of God).  I certainly want argue with you, believe or don't believe.
> 
> Lu 11:21 When a strong man *armed *keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:



That's fine.  

Please keep in mind that I have no plans to respond to you in the future if you insist on using odd fonts and random colors.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Based on what?



Based on my conversation with a JW one day.  They were very explicit in their conviction that under no circumstances are you to harm another human being.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 21, 2010)

*Watch*



RoosterTodd said:


> Christ used this analogy to explain his second coming. Why use this analogy if he wasn't also condoning the use of force for self defense?
> 
> "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.  But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.  Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Matthew 24:42-44, NKJV



The key word is Watch and we are to be on Watch for the Lord's coming and be ready at any hour of the day or night. We should be looking for our Lord's coming at all times and are ready for His coming.

However, in the example to Watch, He used, a thief trying to break into a house and not knowing what hour the thief would come (In order to show that he should Watch at all times).

 Note this part: he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.  Sometimes the only way it is NOT ALLOWED is by the strong man of the house being ARMED. That is why the thief was Not Allowed to break into the house in Luke 11:21.

That is where this verse comes in:
 Lu 11:21 When a strong man *armed *keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

A strong man WILL protect his house and note by being armed (probably with a sword or spear during bible times), but possibly a firearm in our time. Also notice it was to protect against a thief/thug today.

Being armed is biblical, that is in the Authorized King James Holy Bible. 
Also, the apostle Peter carried a sword and cut off an ear, though the Lord healed it.  There is a time for the sword and there is a time to let the unbelieving ear hear the Lord. 

Now, let every man be fully persuaded in his own heart.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 21, 2010)

*reply*



Crubear said:


> Well, since the King Jimmy doesn't specifically mention firearms of any kind...it must be OK.



Authorized King James Version Holy Bible says in Luke 11:21:

Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 

Armed in bible times would probably mean a sword or spear, today, maybe a firearm of some type. 

I don't know a King Jimmy, but my King James Holy Bible is a tried, tested and true sword. The Spirit of God has used the word of God from the King James Holy Bible to save my rotten soul, and I am greatly thankful.    

Now who is your King Jimmy or was that a way of showing disrespect?

Stir on


----------



## **k9** (Nov 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Based on my conversation with a JW one day.  They were very explicit in their conviction that under no circumstances are you to harm another human being.



Some listen to a JW while others follow the word of God for their belief.  It everyone's choice who to listen to or follow. 
Ask that same JW if a thief/thugs today brpke into their home and was trying to rape and kill his family would he harm them in order to protect his family or not.

The word of God is very clear on this as what to do.

Some use the JW's reasoning to try to justify being a draft dodger too, and did during the Viet Nam war.

I normally would not give a reply to such, however, I need 100 posts in order to post free.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

**k9** said:


> Ask that same JW if a thief/thugs today brpke into their home and was trying to rape and kill his family would he harm them in order to protect his family or not.



Well duh, anybody would ask that right away.   They were quite consistent on their position.  I was impressed by that.  I think it's crazy, but that sort of dedication is noteworthy.  Much more dedicated than the average, run of the mill Christians I've encountered.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well duh, anybody would ask that right away.   They were quite consistent on their position.  I was impressed by that.  I think it's crazy, but that sort of dedication is noteworthy.  Much more dedicated than the average, run of the mill Christians I've encountered.



That's the problem, the run of the mill (Just like the world) and who is to say they were truly saved Christians.  It sounds like they were Christian in name only, but not walking Holy or departing from iniquity so the difference would be easy to see.  The Lord is able to deal with them.

2Ti 2:19 * Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.*


*Hast thou considered  Jesus, there is  none like him in the earth, a perfect an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?*

 Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
 Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God is very real to me, he lives within my heart.  He loved me while I was his enemy and gave himself for me.  He is now become my Salvation, my God, my friend, my brother, my Father, my comforter, my Lord, and many other things . Christ Jesus my life and my hope. The words that he speaks they are spirit and they are life.

Would you say that the true belief and dedication to the word of God, the love of God, and the gospel is noteworthy?


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

**k9** said:


> That's the problem, the run of the mill (Just like the world) and who is to say they were truly saved Christians.  It sounds like they were Christian in name only, but not walking Holy or departing from iniquity so the difference would be easy to see.  The Lord is able to deal with them.
> 
> 2Ti 2:19 * Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.*
> 
> ...



Here you go posting like that again.  Here I go not reading it.


----------



## apoint (Nov 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well duh, anybody would ask that right away.   They were quite consistent on their position.  I was impressed by that.  I think it's crazy, but that sort of dedication is noteworthy.  Much more dedicated than the average, run of the mill Christians I've encountered.



 All due respect Hammy, If ya listen to those dedicated JW, as you put it.  You will be misguided. JW are poly theist as in Father, Son, and Holy spirit are 3 Gods, and Jesus is a created being. Jesus did not teach this so it is a false religion. Mormons are a similar belief. They also think they will be Gods in the after life. Same reason Lucifer was thrown out of heaven. Wrong and false doctrine not taught by Jesus. Wrong doctrin will put you into the wrong after life.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 21, 2010)

apoint said:


> All due respect Hammy, If ya listen to those dedicated JW, as you put it.  You will be misguided. JW are poly theist as in Father, Son, and Holy spirit are 3 Gods, and Jesus is a created being. Jesus did not teach this so it is a false religion. Mormons are a similar belief. They also think they will be Gods in the after life. Same reason Lucifer was thrown out of heaven. Wrong and false doctrine not taught by Jesus. Wrong doctrin will put you into the wrong after life.



That's fine and dandy apoint, but I don't see one as being more correct than the other.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 21, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Based on my conversation with a JW one day. They were very explicit in their conviction that under no circumstances are you to harm another human being.


 
What does a JW have to do with a Christian's view of arming and protecting themself?


----------



## Bottle Hunter (Nov 21, 2010)

Funny how no ones mentioned "beating their swords into plowshares." Then we preceive that  scriptue as a national issue not an individual one. Then in those times all men had a sword, not for personal protection at home, but for when the king called ya up to fight his enemy.  

 Then when your on a pro gun/pro hunting forum, what other answer would expect other than in the affirmative?


----------



## FritzMichaels (Nov 21, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> i have a georgia weapons license. .



I need to know everything about this license. Was your accrediting school a valid school? did you pass the test? I need to see credentials of your teacher, please. We need to see this license or i wont go shooting with you.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 22, 2010)

Bottle Hunter said:


> Funny how no ones mentioned "beating their swords into plowshares." Then we preceive that  scriptue as a national issue not an individual one. Then in those times all men had a sword, not for personal protection at home, but for when the king called ya up to fight his enemy.
> 
> Then when your on a pro gun/pro hunting forum, what other answer would expect other than in the affirmative?



The time for beating the swords into plowshares and the lam to lie down with the lion is not yet,  but will come in the future, as the Lord will return.

Until then you might want to consider being armed to protect your family, or not.


----------



## Bottle Hunter (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh, I am armed and got two really bad dogs, plus the fact I'm 6'3 230 and have a collection "big sticks" I really don't worry about people getting me. Heck I don't even lock my doors at night.

 To the original question. Nothing wrong w/ owning guns.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 22, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> That's fine and dandy apoint, but I don't see one as being more correct than the other.



And the sad part is that you may never see.

As you stated if he were real indicates that you don't believe God is real, so read the verses:

 Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


----------



## Gabassmaster (Nov 22, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> I need to know everything about this license. Was your accrediting school a valid school? did you pass the test? I need to see credentials of your teacher, please. We need to see this license or i wont go shooting with you.



someone who dont know how to use a gun is more dangerous than someone who dosent!  but yes i own a gun its fine. I wont even go to the movies without a knife....to many gangsters there always startin fights i dont trust em.


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 22, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> I need to know everything about this license. Was your accrediting school a valid school? did you pass the test? I need to see credentials of your teacher, please. We need to see this license or i wont go shooting with you.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm confused here,
Jesus has legions of angels at his command
He could have called them to save him
Yet he allowed himself to die

He talked about being a peacemaker and merciful
He commanded us to love our enemy

Now, explain how what you're saying you'll do in self-defense complies with the example given?


----------



## Ronnie T (Nov 22, 2010)

Crubear said:


> I'm confused here,
> Jesus has legions of angels at his command
> He could have called them to save him
> Yet he allowed himself to die
> ...


----------



## formula1 (Nov 22, 2010)

*Re:*

I have  a CC license and I do carry. But having said that, I have no desire to ever use in a defensive situation. But I would use it if absolutely necessary to defend my life, that of my family, or that of the innocent in such a situation.

I am compelled to also believe that it is God Almighty who is in charge of defending the Gospel of Christ and I have no right to carry out deadly force for that purpose.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 22, 2010)

Crubear said:


> I'm confused here,
> Jesus has legions of angels at his command
> He could have called them to save him
> Yet he allowed himself to die
> ...



You were the same person confused about King Jimmy instead of the Authorized King James Holy Bible, weren't you.  You seem to be confused over very simple things.

OK, here goes,

The Lord came as the Lamb of God , to suffer the shame, the pain, the rejection, the beatings, the mockings, the judgment, the death on the cross, God the Father turning his back on him, then the flam of h-e-l-l and why?  For you and me, that is why. So that we would not have to go to that horrible place, tormented for eternity in a place of darkness, made for the Devil and his angels.

He suffered all of that once, never again, it is finished.  Now to your question:

 Ro 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Why, the youngest bible student should be able to understand that.  If thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink.....

Please see that verse did not say it thine enemy is attempting to rape wifes and daughters and trying to kill you and your family to feed him and give him drink. NO, NO

  God does not expect you to allow this to happen.  

What is the problem beliving the verse below?

Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 

Remember this part:.. he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.  
The Lord has shown great mercy and is long suffering not willing that any should perrish, as he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
But, knowing the terror of the Lord, I will give the same warning as the apostle Paul:
 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Now, please reread this previous post.  The Lord will return, but his enemies won't be shown any mercy at that time, no, now is the day of mercy and grace, but then it will be too late.  The world will have sinned away the day of grace. 

There is still time to be saved from the day of the Lord (the day of the wrath of God)  and God gave the invitation:

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Previous and last post on the matter: believe what you will.

Jesus Christ is NOT the WIMPY Jesus that is portrayed in some church buildings by some WIMPY, delicate men or silly women.
Jesus is a man of war, captain of the Lord's host, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Mighty God, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Ex 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Ps 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and Re 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Re 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Re 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Re 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Re 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
my fingers to fight:
Re 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Re 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Re 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Isa 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

This was my last post on this matter. Thank you for your patience in reading the post. May the Lord Bless and Keep you.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 22, 2010)

As a veteran, I had no problem defending my country. Jesus told the soldiers to do their job.

As a husband and father I will defend my family.

I will not kill someone over stuff. Period, it's stuff.

I find it a challenge as I continue to read, study, ponder, and grow in my faith to continue to believe that I would kill someone to save my own life. The example I follow is a high one.


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 22, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> What does a JW have to do with a Christian's view of arming and protecting themself?



Don't know.  They read the same bible though don't they?


----------



## Ronnie T (Nov 22, 2010)

formula1 said:


> I have  a CC license and I do carry. But having said that, I have no desire to ever use in a defensive situation. But I would use it if absolutely necessary to defend my life, that of my family, or that of the innocent in such a situation.
> 
> I am compelled to also believe that it is God Almighty who is in charge of defending the Gospel of Christ and I have no right to carry out deadly force for that purpose.[/QUOTE]
> 
> I agree.


----------



## davidstaples (Nov 23, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> this should be a good topic for all of us,  I believe in having and carrying guns, i have a georgia weapons license. and until i was layed off i was a gun collector. how do you guys feel? and please only serious responces , we do not need to start a problem with this thread.



The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill".  It doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless you're being attacked".  If you're not going to kill in the event that you need to protect your life then what's the point of having the gun?  That being said, I'm not a Christian and would have no problem putting a few rounds in someone aiming to attack me.


----------



## **k9** (Nov 23, 2010)

If you study you would see that " Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
" refers to not murdering someone.
 Mt 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

The same God that said thou shalt not kill had Israel wipe out their enemies. Therefore, if you do not study this out, then you to will be confused.
 De 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Also consider King David, a man after God's own heart, he killed thousand of his enemies. He was in the will of God destroying them. 
Thou shaly not kill when studied out refers to Thou shalt do no murder.

I know, I said I was through posting on this subject...


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 23, 2010)

davidstaples said:


> The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill".  It doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless you're being attacked".  If you're not going to kill in the event that you need to protect your life then what's the point of having the gun?  That being said, I'm not a Christian and would have no problem putting a few rounds in someone aiming to attack me.



no the bible does not say thou shalt not kill it says thou shalt not murder.


----------



## Big7 (Nov 23, 2010)

Crubear said:


> Well, since the King Jimmy doesn't specifically mention firearms of any kind...it must be OK.







RoosterTodd said:


> Christians should only carry guns when they're drinking and speeding.



 some more!



RoosterTodd said:


> And now for my serious answer: This Christian does carry.



Me too..


----------



## Big7 (Nov 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Don't know.  They read the same bible though don't they?



Not the same as mine.. Ref. first quote in post #54


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Nov 23, 2010)

Big7 said:


> Not the same as mine.. Ref. first quote in post #54



Gimme a link if you will.   I use hybrid view so the post # doesn't work for me.


----------



## Big7 (Nov 23, 2010)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Gimme a link if you will.   I use hybrid view so the post # doesn't work for me.



Sure..

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=5534946&postcount=54

" Originally Posted by Crubear View Post
Well, since the King Jimmy doesn't specifically mention firearms of any kind...it must be OK."

No KJV for me..


----------



## Lead Poison (Nov 24, 2010)

Of course Christians should own and carry guns!

There is nothing ungodly about owning and carrying a gun.  

Christians should even use deadly force to protect themselves, their family members or someone else if necessary!


----------



## Lead Poison (Nov 24, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> no the bible does not say thou shalt not kill it says thou shalt not murder.



Amazing and sad how many people don't know the difference!


----------



## Ronnie T (Nov 24, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> no the bible does not say thou shalt not kill it says thou shalt not murder.



Exodus 20:13 (kjv)
Thou shalt not kill.


Sorry folks, I didn't write it, but thar it is.


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 24, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> this should be a good topic for all of us,  I believe in having and carrying guns, i have a georgia weapons license. and until i was layed off i was a gun collector. how do you guys feel? and please only serious responces , we do not need to start a problem with this thread.



Well considering Jesus and his crew were in fact armed, with the modern day equivalent of "guns" then yes.

"Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus."

So why were they carrying swords?


----------



## Gabassmaster (Nov 24, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> no the bible does not say thou shalt not kill it says thou shalt not murder.



it dosent say to not blow their knecaps off


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> it dosent say to not blow their knecaps off



good point


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Exodus 20:13 (kjv)
> Thou shalt not kill.
> 
> 
> Sorry folks, I didn't write it, but thar it is.



com,on ronnie you of all people should know this, the hebrew word is (ratsach) meaning murder. if this was not true then God himself broke his own command and told others to do so too when he told them to kill the enemys of israel.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 24, 2010)

Dawg2, I don't normally tell anyone they're flat out wrong, but that's a horrible way to use scripture...you left out the most important part of the whole passage there.

From Matt 26 
50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”

   Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 

   52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 24, 2010)

Crubear said:


> Dawg2, I don't normally tell anyone they're flat out wrong, but that's a horrible way to use scripture...you left out the most important part of the whole passage there.
> 
> From Matt 26
> 50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”
> ...



I think you missed the point.  They were CARRYING swords.  Why?


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> I think you missed the point.  They were CARRYING swords.  Why?



good point


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 24, 2010)

Crubear said:


> Dawg2, I don't normally tell anyone they're flat out wrong, but that's a horrible way to use scripture...you left out the most important part of the whole passage there.
> 
> From Matt 26
> 50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”
> ...





dawg2 said:


> I think you missed the point.  They were CARRYING swords.  Why?


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> I think you missed the point. They were CARRYING swords. Why?


 
There you go interjecting facts again...


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 24, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> There you go interjecting facts again...



I've been told it "was a horrible way to use scripture"


----------



## Crubear (Nov 24, 2010)

Is that like asking why Judas had 30 pieces of silver? Or Simon would deny Jesus three times that night?

Well, as I read it...this was before Pentecost, when the gathered Apostles received the Holy Spirit and finally got what it meant to be a follower. Before Pentecost they seem to have had a very hard time getting it.

They had a sword because they weren't disciples yet, just believers.


----------



## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 24, 2010)

Crubear said:


> Is that like asking why Judas had 30 pieces of silver? Or Simon would deny Jesus three times that night?
> 
> Well, as I read it...this was before Pentecost, when the gathered Apostles received the Holy Spirit and finally got what it meant to be a follower. Before Pentecost they seem to have had a very hard time getting it.
> 
> They had a sword because they weren't disciples yet, just believers.


 

So,,,,,,,this entire Country is based on, and was founded by Heathen principles??? We should have just stayed in our native countries and submitted to the will of the kings.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 24, 2010)

MC, you missed the point entirely and completely. And I'm not going down the path you're trying to lead. Most of those who came here did so with the permission of their leaders. Your question just doesn't apply and I'm not going there.

My response was to Simon having a sword as a justification to carry a firearm. Simon carried a sword because he was Simon. Why are you cherry picking that part and entirely ignoring what Jesus told Simon/Peter and all the others right then and there?


----------



## Crubear (Nov 24, 2010)

MC, I am going to go there. How do you read  Hebrews 13:17?

And while you're at it, the question works both ways... they were with Jesus, why were they carrying swords? I don't ever remember reading anywhere where Jesus told them to do it?


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 25, 2010)

Crubear said:


> MC, you missed the point entirely and completely. And I'm not going down the path you're trying to lead. Most of those who came here did so with the permission of their leaders. Your question just doesn't apply and I'm not going there.
> 
> My response was to Simon having a sword as a justification to carry a firearm. Simon carried a sword because he was Simon. Why are you cherry picking that part and entirely ignoring what Jesus told Simon/Peter and all the others right then and there?



Crubear I respect your view on the subject, however the only reason Jesus told simon to put away the sword and not fight is because that was the REASON JESUS CAME, the same reason he rebuked simon peter before when Jesus was telling them how he must die and peter said never Lord, Jesus said get behind me satan, because that is why Jesus came, was to die and rise the third day. simon was trying to stop the plan of God.

Matthew 24:43 (Amplified Bible)
43But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [a]night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be *undermined and broken into.*


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 25, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> Crubear I respect your view on the subject, however the only reason Jesus told simon to put away the sword and not fight is because that was the REASON JESUS CAME, the same reason he rebuked simon peter before when Jesus was telling them how he must die and peter said never Lord, Jesus said get behind me satan, because that is why Jesus came, was to die and rise the third day. simon was trying to stop the plan of God.
> 
> Matthew 24:43 (Amplified Bible)
> 43But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [a]night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be *undermined and broken into.*


*

ding ding ding....we have a winner

The fact is they WERE armed and Jesus ALLOWED it.  He intervened only when the plan of God was being altered.*


----------



## Crubear (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm not arguing against having weapons, I'm armed to.

I'm arguing against using a piece of scripture completely and totaly out of context to prove your point.


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Crubear said:


> I'm not arguing against having weapons, I'm armed to.
> 
> I'm arguing against using a piece of scripture completely and totaly out of context to prove your point.


It is not out of context if they were carrying swords.  Please explain.


----------



## Crubear (Nov 25, 2010)

At this point, I'm no longer sure I can. I read it as Peter drawing the sword, attacking a man, Jesus performing a healing miracle and then telling Peter (and the rest of the Apostles) to put away the weapons of this world.

I find it wrong to justify having a "Sword" because Peter had one, when the next thing Jesus says is put it away and don't use it again. (Implied ever - live by the sword, die by the sword)

To me it's like justifying living in sin because everyone else does.


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 26, 2010)

Crubear said:


> At this point, I'm no longer sure I can. I read it as Peter drawing the sword, attacking a man, Jesus performing a healing miracle and then telling Peter (and the rest of the Apostles) to put away the weapons of this world.
> 
> I find it wrong to justify having a "Sword" because Peter had one, when the next thing Jesus says is put it away and don't use it again. (Implied ever - live by the sword, die by the sword)
> 
> To me it's like justifying living in sin because everyone else does.



No, it is very different.  His followers were carrying swords and he allowed it.  He wasn't allowing them to run around and sin.  Very different.


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 26, 2010)

i guess david should have let goliath kill everyone he chould then? or do you think he would have used a 44 magnum if he had one


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 26, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> i guess david should have let goliath kill everyone he chould then? or do you think he would have used a 44 magnum if he had one



OK, that doesn't make sense.  You lost me there.


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 26, 2010)

if killing in defence is wrong then david was wrong for killing goliath,

and one of the weapons of davids day was a sling, if he had a gun i,m sure he would have used it. ok dawg2 you get it? stay with me.


----------



## dawg2 (Nov 26, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> if killing in defence is wrong then david was wrong for killing goliath,
> 
> and one of the weapons of davids day was a sling, if he had a gun i,m sure he would have used it. ok dawg2 you get it? stay with me.


OK, gotcha.


----------

