# Can you agree or disagree with this explanation of GOD



## piratebob64 (May 22, 2013)

THE EXPLANATION OF GOD 
God is nothing but a person’s use of their imagination to explain something that is a "mystery" to them. When one person decides their explanation is the correct explanation, that belief is then used to persuade others that the originator of that thought (explanation of the mystery) is above everyone else’s thought. Thus elevating that person in his/her mind to a higher status, first to themselves then to others, in order to hold sway over the opinion of others. It is the creation of power over at first one person and then others. With power come special privileges in many forms. Gift giving freely, gift giving for special treatment of taking away mysteries (evil spirits). Sacrifices which release one’s own self-worth and transferring it to another person. Religions in primitive form show evidence of the scheme to take away objects such as food and clothing in return for special treatment /protection/good hunting/fertility /etc. Creating cures in simple incantations and then actually stumbling across real cures with the use of plants and minerals and up the chain to modern medicine. Science explains, while religion goes all the way back to the origin of ...one person’s imagination creating the myth of a god that satisfies their need for explanation.

There is no spoken or written history that mentions God or jesus prior to mankind becoming hunter/gathers as oppossed to hunters only. Only when mankind started to live in communities did this belief in a God start!

           The GOD rule and how it affected mankind:
Without the idea of a GOD setting rules and a religion to support and teaching those rules mankind would have destroyed itself due to the natural destructive nature of humans


                    Not trying to start a war here!
             Just an honest open discussion of the possibillities as discribed above.


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## hobbs27 (May 22, 2013)

I have no problem disagreeing with the above explanation. God is not mystery to Christians. The what,when,and how this current Kingdom operates and the next level..now that's a mystery, but God is real.


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## centerpin fan (May 22, 2013)

Disagree


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## jmh5397 (May 22, 2013)

piratebob64 said:


> There is no spoken or written history that mentions God or jesus prior to mankind becoming hunter/gathers as oppossed to hunters only. Only when mankind started to live in communities did this belief in a God start!



And this little "fact" you got from..... where?


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## Ronnie T (May 22, 2013)

Nope.


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## Dr. Strangelove (May 23, 2013)

If you believe in one god, then how can you not believe in the existence of others? In other words, how is one religion "right" while another is wrong?  

Do you think the Vikings had any less fervent beliefs in Odin, Thor, etc. than people believe other religions today? Or any other group in history with their gods? No.

I have no issue with religion until someone attempts to force their beliefs on others.


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## jmh5397 (May 23, 2013)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> If you believe in one god, then how can you not believe in the existence of others? In other words, how is one religion "right" while another is wrong?
> 
> Do you think the Vikings had any less fervent beliefs in Odin, Thor, etc. than people believe other religions today? Or any other group in history with their gods? No.
> 
> I have no issue with religion until someone attempts to force their beliefs on others.



I believe the Vikings had a devout belief in their gods, however, the God of the Bible tells us that there are no other gods before Him.  Where are the Vikings?  Where are their gods?  Gone, defeated by a Irish warrior that was Christian (maybe not the best example of a Christian, but Christian nonetheless).  Could the fact that they no longer exist be the proof that you are looking for that maybe, just maybe, the Vikings worshipped false gods?  As far as your "force their beliefs on others" comment, I am not aware of any Christian faith that "forces" anyone to do anything.  If you're being "forced" to do something, it's probably not Christianity.


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## formula1 (May 23, 2013)

*Re:*

Disagree!

The thing about a god that man creates is that it fits into a mold that is acceptable to that man. If this were true about God, I would make him what I want him to be.

The One true God and Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ doesn't operate or work in my life or in the earth in the way I want Him too. But He moves and works and interacts with me in a way that brings Him Glory. That is at least one attribute that I know of that tells me He is not created by this man.  He is above all!


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## gordon 2 (May 23, 2013)

hobbs27 said:


> I have no problem disagreeing with the above explanation. God is not mystery to Christians. The what,when,and how this current Kingdom operates and the next level..now that's a mystery, but God is real.



How does this current Kingdom operate is a REAL good topic for another tread...as well as the "next level".


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## gordon 2 (May 23, 2013)

piratebob64 said:


> THE EXPLANATION OF GOD
> God is nothing but a person’s use of their imagination to explain something that is a "mystery" to them. When one person decides their explanation is the correct explanation, that belief is then used to persuade others that the originator of that thought (explanation of the mystery) is above everyone else’s thought. Thus elevating that person in his/her mind to a higher status, first to themselves then to others, in order to hold sway over the opinion of others. It is the creation of power over at first one person and then others. With power come special privileges in many forms. Gift giving freely, gift giving for special treatment of taking away mysteries (evil spirits). Sacrifices which release one’s own self-worth and transferring it to another person. Religions in primitive form show evidence of the scheme to take away objects such as food and clothing in return for special treatment /protection/good hunting/fertility /etc. Creating cures in simple incantations and then actually stumbling across real cures with the use of plants and minerals and up the chain to modern medicine. Science explains, while religion goes all the way back to the origin of ...one person’s imagination creating the myth of a god that satisfies their need for explanation.
> 
> There is no spoken or written history that mentions God or jesus prior to mankind becoming hunter/gathers as oppossed to hunters only. Only when mankind started to live in communities did this belief in a God start!
> ...



-------------------------
a) God is nothing but a person’s use of their imagination to explain something that is a "mystery" to them. (Quote)

This is true concerning idols and false gods. The temporal experience of creation is enough for us to sense a creator and conciousness as part of that creation.


b.)Thus elevating that person in his/her mind to a higher status, first to themselves then to others, in order to hold sway over the opinion of others.(quote)

 You are describing a cult. Control.  Holy Seers and Holy persons are servants of what is good and  of people, by intuition if not by reason itself and that what is good is from the creator. They are not to be served, but to serve. Some are even reluctant to walk out their call to serve--as Jonah is an example. Coming down from the Holy Mountain and after seeing and handling the dress of God does not elevate a person higher...if anything it cuts them down to size. You should not confuse the store people put in saints with their estimation of that store they have in themselves.

And this is the difference between cult leaders and saints who are closely intimate with the devine.


c)Religions in primitive form show evidence of the scheme to take away objects such as food and clothing in return for special treatment /protection/good hunting/fertility /etc( Quote)

Yes primitive religions do this... ( today people have a 5 day supply of essentials in case of emergencies) and hope in Hail Marys.... Ancient religions often have essential parts that defined cultures...and peoples... The craving for the devine stems even from and along and added to with the basic needs of man... food, shelter, nurturing, security, integrity, purpose, work, relationships...

d)Without the idea of a GOD setting rules and a religion to support and teaching those rules mankind would have destroyed itself due to the natural destructive nature of humans(quote)

Yes exactly, only man did destroy himself in the account of Adam and Eve. What ever intimate religion was back then they trashed it..because....: Adam and Eve did deny God as just an idea, and it is only through the grace of the Devine that for Jesus and Christianity nature is gradually returning to its original created purpose and as witness our ever increasing freedoms from oppression from cults, deceptions and false Gods and religions which is the science, the genius of faith.

Note: If someone is moved to seek in scripture due to this bit, and not haveing done it in a while, I suggest you crack open Matthew 5-6-7 and next read the Acts of the Apostles. You might find out why it was so easy for Adam to give a rib to Eve...as  a new beating heart does feel like getting a chest to bursting.


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## groundhawg (May 24, 2013)

Disagree!

Not even close to a real explanation of God.


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## gordon 2 (May 25, 2013)

groundhawg said:


> Disagree!
> 
> Not even close to a real explanation of God.




LOL...you just don't have my pupils that's all.


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## Dominic (May 28, 2013)

piratebob64 said:


> There is no spoken or written history that mentions God or jesus prior to mankind becoming hunter/gathers as oppossed to hunters only. Only when mankind started to live in communities did this belief in a God start!



There is archaeological evidence which show Neanderthals had religious rituals to go along with burials, which could denote a belief in God.

Also mankind has always lived in "communities" which traveled from place to place depending the seasons.

There is no evidence that man was ever a "hunter only". The fact is dental examination of the fossil record shows that man was more gather then hunter for a long time. Eventually man started hunting to supplement diets. Man then moved on to planting crops which would be available the next time they traveled through a particualar area, then man began to stay in one place to practice agriculture, and finally they started to practice animal husbandry. Throughout this entire time archaeologist find evidence of religious goods, which could denote a belief in God.


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## rjcruiser (May 28, 2013)

Dominic said:


> There is archaeological evidence which show Neanderthals had religious rituals to go along with burials, which could denote a belief in God.
> 
> Also mankind has always lived in "communities" which traveled from place to place depending the seasons.
> 
> There is no evidence that man was ever a "hunter only". The fact is dental examination of the fossil record shows that man was more gather then hunter for a long time. Eventually man started hunting to supplement diets. Man then moved on to planting crops which would be available the next time they traveled through a particualar area, then man began to stay in one place to practice agriculture, and finally they started to practice animal husbandry. Throughout this entire time archaeologist find evidence of religious goods, which could denote a belief in God.




Welcome back old friend


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## Dominic (May 28, 2013)

rjcruiser said:


> Welcome back old friend



Hey man!!!

Thanks for the welcome.


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## bigdawg25 (May 28, 2013)

piratebob64 said:


> THE EXPLANATION OF GOD
> God is nothing but a person’s use of their imagination to explain something that is a "mystery" to them. When one person decides their explanation is the correct explanation, that belief is then used to persuade others that the originator of that thought (explanation of the mystery) is above everyone else’s thought. Thus elevating that person in his/her mind to a higher status, first to themselves then to others, in order to hold sway over the opinion of others. It is the creation of power over at first one person and then others. With power come special privileges in many forms. Gift giving freely, gift giving for special treatment of taking away mysteries (evil spirits). Sacrifices which release one’s own self-worth and transferring it to another person. Religions in primitive form show evidence of the scheme to take away objects such as food and clothing in return for special treatment /protection/good hunting/fertility /etc. Creating cures in simple incantations and then actually stumbling across real cures with the use of plants and minerals and up the chain to modern medicine. Science explains, while religion goes all the way back to the origin of ...one person’s imagination creating the myth of a god that satisfies their need for explanation.
> 
> There is no spoken or written history that mentions God or jesus prior to mankind becoming hunter/gathers as oppossed to hunters only. Only when mankind started to live in communities did this belief in a God start!
> ...



In effect yeah, you could be correct in that whatever religious writings we have are timed at about 3000-5000 BC, and before that we dont have any written documentation. That time period roughly also equates to rise of organized civilization which started cropping up at bunch of places at the same time. That's the same time period (roughly) if you calculate biblical age of earth by going back each generation, and counting the age of each ones.

However, That in no way means that there is no God. that just means stating some facts and then inferring wrong conclusions from it. BTW, the way you explained God, it seemed to me that we need him to be MORE then he needs us (whether real or fictional). a good question would be why every human culture seems to have beliefs in God, and why so many people *feel a personal relationship to God* ? the last reason is the one I consider myself to be "non religious" but spiritual, and in no way an atheist.


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## piratebob64 (May 29, 2013)

A good question would be why every human culture seems to have beliefs in God - Ahh you are right! every  human culture "DID" and  "DOES" have a belief in "A" GOD. Norse- Odin, Asian Budda, Ntive American great spirt ect, so on and so on. They may not have been a christian based god(which acording to the bible is puting a false god ahead of the christian God)but at least it was God. Do gooders travel the world teaching the that the christian bible and the word of GOD as the one true god and religion in the world, while condeming all other religions and beliefs as wrong and evil! How can every religion other than christianity be wrong! Just because a book written by "men" says so! 

Why so many people feel a personal relationship to God - We as humans need!  Need companionship, need answers to questions, need questions to answer, need rules to follow, seek out acceptance. I find it ludicris when someone claims Jesus stopped them from from being a drug addict!  The fact that people claim that Jesus did it ( he healed me) !  
I can recall nothing in bible about Jesus doing nothing more than healing the sick, raising the dead, sight to the blind. 
For Jesus to stop you from smoking, drugs or whatever goes against the big gift we were given "FREEWILL"  meaning we have the choice to stop!  I stopped smoking! me myself! I decided to stop! God and Jesus did nothing but give me the ability to stop thru free will!  For some the belief in Jesus helps one to stop! but he does not control you to stop that is against the what is preached!    

Last reason is the one I consider myself to be "non religious" but spiritual, and in no way an atheist -  Being that I believe in "A" God  kinda excludes me from the atheist club!  
Not believing in organized religion kinda excludes me from the christians
Which if we have to classifiy me would put me somewhere in asian/native american spritual beliefs! 
I tend to cringe and feel for my wallet when people claim to be christians, just been my expeience!


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## Israel (Jun 7, 2013)

There is a God who has mercy upon man's endless consumptive, convulsive, strivings to be right.
He even sends his son to tell us...this relationship is not for the purpose of satisfying that overblown need you have to dominate by being right"est" in the sight of others...and gaining the benefits thereof (many of which the OP rightly described).
Nope...this is not only "deeper" but contrary to that.
All those things we have endorsed as the demonstration of "rightness" amongst men...craving success, craving power, craving acceptance, come precisely from the corruption growing out of the broken fellowship with our maker. So the Lord tells us straight out..."this" is not for the gaining of that...and indeed...to regain the very thing lost that has caused you to mistake all those things for God...may...often and will indeed cost you those very things. 

You will most often not look like a success...you may not even seem sane to many, you will not have any more than I give you for your material needs...but the guaranteee is ALWAYS that you will be sufficiently supplied to make it to the day of your being relieved of your ambassador duties and call home.

God has, for his purposes, and to undo the complete malignancy of sight that causes us to mistake light for dark...and dark for light, evil for good, and good for evil...placed our ultimate success in the place of the most seeming abysmal failure...the cross. 


Reagrdless of how much the mind and emotions rebel against it..."it's just "not right" that the pure one should be called a blasphemer...it's just not "right" that the Holy one should be called a liar, it's just not right that the one who is above all...would subject himself to such humiliation...before all"...but see...regardless of its distaste...the disciple has the inward gift of knowing...it could never be any other way...in short...it is the truth...and there is no denying it. Men are, all men are...all of us are...so corrupted in heart that we don't even recognize the maker of men when he comes to us in Jesus Christ...and there could always only be one outcome from our own malignant hearts to the truth...kill it!

Seeing this in ourselves...the truth of ourselves...is a gift...a gift so precious...it cause us to "re" think everything...top to bottom in repentance. It totally upsets all of "our" earth...as it must...as it should...as it has been willed.
And then we begin to see...this relationship is far more than I expected...more real...more intense...more of everything I didn't want...because I couldn't accpet the thing required to make it happen of my own will power...I am a complete and total loser.

When you see how much the reality of this inward knowledge...too terrible to face head on apart from the gift of God through Christ...then you will se the engine that has driven so many words and works from the beginning. All of our own efforts spring from one thing...trying to cover our tracks...so the One we abandoned won't find us as we are.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't agree with the explanation you gave in the OP and can assume you don't either since you do believe in a God.
You do bring up some good points to the discussion.
A Lot of Christians, and clubs(Boy Scouts,Freemasonry) believe it is better to believe in any God than no God. What are your feelings on this?

I too believe in Freewill so I agree that when you quit smoking, it was you who did it. Maybe the only disagreement we might have is that you could have been helped or hindered by the Holy Spirit or Satan. You still have the final say so.


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## Israel (Jun 8, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't agree with the explanation you gave in the OP and can assume you don't either since you do believe in a God.
> You do bring up some good points to the discussion.
> A Lot of Christians, and clubs(Boy Scouts,Freemasonry) believe it is better to believe in any God than no God. What are your feelings on this?
> 
> I too believe in Freewill so I agree that when you quit smoking, it was you who did it. Maybe the only disagreement we might have is that you could have been helped or hindered by the Holy Spirit or Satan. You still have the final say so.




The truth of the matter is everyone has a "god" they believe in.

The Lord Jesus has a wonderful way of revealing which god we serve...that of self...or someone true.

The seeing of this does not make us good, better, or worthy of any note. Neither is the power to "put" off the one to cling to the other, of ourselves.
All, at best, any man is...is a man who sees, and seeing... chooses to his own benefit.
Would a man see life? 

It's right here...no higher than our lips, no lower than our hearts.


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## piratebob64 (Jun 11, 2013)

Artfuldodger said:


> I don't agree with the explanation you gave in the OP and can assume you don't either since you do believe in a God.
> You do bring up some good points to the discussion.
> A Lot of Christians, and clubs(Boy Scouts,Freemasonry) believe it is better to believe in any God than no God. What are your feelings on this?
> 
> I too believe in Freewill so I agree that when you quit smoking, it was you who did it. Maybe the only disagreement we might have is that you could have been helped or hindered by the Holy Spirit or Satan. You still have the final say so.



I do believe in "A" God!  Is it the one as discribed in the bible? Is the one presented to me as a student in catholic school? Don`t know dont care?  I march to my own drum beat which I admit is very off beat to say the least! 
It is nice and refreshing to see someone who is not afraid to go HMMMMMMMMM well lets see instead of "GOD WROTE THE BIBLE AND HE SAID WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN IT AND HIM OR WE ARE DARNED TO ETERNAL SIN!"


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## centerpin fan (Jun 11, 2013)

piratebob64 said:


> "GOD WROTE THE BIBLE AND HE SAID WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN IT AND HIM OR WE ARE DARNED TO ETERNAL SIN!"



Nobody on this forum believes that.  In fact, I've never met anybody who believes that.


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## bigdawg25 (Jun 11, 2013)

centerpin fan said:


> Nobody on this forum believes that.  In fact, I've never met anybody who believes that.



cut him some slack, maybe he meant that bible is inspired by God


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