# jake, jenny, hen or tom?



## hawglips (Oct 2, 2007)

Anybody want to guess what this turkey is?  (Warning: This is another one of those ID technique things that I enjoy discussing but some aren't interested in...)


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

Come on guys -- I know I'm not the only one around here absolutely eat up with turkey-on-the-brain 24/7, 365 days of the year.  

Its OK to guess wrong.  

And those interested might learn a pretty cool (and I think interesting) ID technique.


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## SimpleMan (Oct 3, 2007)

I'll jump in.
A domesticated hen.
The white tips on the tail feathers says it ain't a wild turkey.


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## SELFBOW (Oct 3, 2007)

I say its a jake based on the color. hens are browner.
it is also a young bird based on leg color.


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## ABAC33 (Oct 3, 2007)

it aint got no spurs, i said hen even though the coloration on feathers look like tom toms.


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## larpyn (Oct 3, 2007)

That there is a North American Concrete Pecker. beaks of steel I tell ya'!

I voted "jenny". But I imagine it's a plain old hen.


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## skeeterbit (Oct 3, 2007)

Hen! But it does look like a young bird!


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

> Hen! But it does look like a young bird!



Skeeterbit, what do you say makes it look like a young bird to you?


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

buckbacks said:


> I say its a jake based on the color. hens are browner.
> it is also a young bird based on leg color.



buckbacks, can you flesh out your comment a little?  What feathers about hens do you feel are browner than this turkey?  And what about leg color makes you think its a young bird?


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

SimpleMan said:


> I'll jump in.
> A domesticated hen.
> The white tips on the tail feathers says it ain't a wild turkey.



SimpleMan, this is a 100% pure wild turkey.  It just ain't an eastern.  Its a rio.

But what subspecies it is makes no difference with this ID technique.


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## dawg2 (Oct 3, 2007)

Looks like a cross between a bronze and a white domesticated.  Head is really light.  I'm guessing Jenny.


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

Alright, here's the first visual clue.

Notice the speckled or mottled small feathers -- the ones that look almost like a hen mallard's feathers -- spread around all over?  These are poult feathers that they lose as the adult colored feathers start to grow in.

And notice the light brown feathers on its wings, up high on the back.  These are also poult feathers that come out as the adult wing feathers come in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




These are easy to see with binoculars if you're checking out turkeys in the field or something and want to know which ones are poults, when they've grown to the point (around this time of year) that size  is not so easily distinguishable.

So, this rio turkey is either a jake or a jenny.  (But again, these two kinds of poult feathers look the same on all wild subspecies.)


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## SELFBOW (Oct 3, 2007)

the irisdecents of the feathers make me think male.Hens are duller in color for better concealment.
the legs are gray/brownish. older birds have pinkish to red in their legs.
hens tend to have more hair on their heads.


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

Now that we know its a poult, is it a jake, or a jenny?

At this young age, it can be difficult to tell by looking at the head and neck on pure wild birds. 

So, here's a clue on the surefire way to know.

Here's a couple pictures showing the difference to look for. Estrogen comes into play here.











Can you see the buff tipped underbelly and breast feathers on a female bird?  Contrast that with the black tipped and greater iridescence on a male bird's underbelly. 

So, look again at the original poult.  You will notice that he is just starting to get his adult underbelly feathers growing in.  They are the irridescent ones that show up well in the second picture right above his right leg.  (Buckbacks was right.)  I count six of these feathers so far grown in on this bird.  

That's how you know the bird is a male and not a female!


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## SimpleMan (Oct 3, 2007)

I knew something was up but I thought Rio's were smaller, maybe I'm thinking Merriman.
The only birds I've seen personally are Easterns so I base everything on that.
All I know is I look for spurs and a Waddle. I came too close to wacking a hen one time cause it had a little tuft of feathers that looked like a beard. Luckily I looked for spurs and a knot on top the head, nothing, so I did not shoot it.
I do need more edumacaiting though.
I still say the bird in the picture is female. If I am wrong its the first mistake I ever made


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

This particular ID technique won't help anyone too much during hunting season.  Its just a neat way to determine sex, and to determine whether the bird is this year's poult or not.  Just wanted to share that for those that are eat up with it like me.


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## skeeterbit (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the lesson hawglips!


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## hawglips (Oct 3, 2007)

Mighty welcome skeeterbit!  Thanks for participating in the thread!  I enjoy discussing this kind of stuff.  My wife and 4 year old daughter just don't have much interest in the nuances of turkey-dom, so its nice to have folks to talk turkey with.


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## turk2di (Oct 5, 2007)

Jenny was my guess.


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## lilbassinlady (Oct 5, 2007)

Looking at the head, the colors to me looks like a jake or tom. I have killed a few grown toms that didn't have spurs and have had short beards from mites.  But what do I know?  THey're all purddy!


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## discounthunter (Oct 8, 2007)

if this is truly a male he should have at least spur "buds".im also curious as to why a truly wild bird would let someone get so close for not one but several photos.


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## hawglips (Oct 8, 2007)

discounthunter said:


> if this is truly a male he should have at least spur "buds".



Not at such a young age.  Since the adult breast feathers were just starting to come in, he couldn't be more than 3 months old or so.


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