# Game Management Criteria used to extend deer Season



## Meat Hunter (Dec 23, 2017)

Can anyone please tell me why the Georgia Department of Natural resources, Game Management Division decided to extend the deer season in Georgia? Was there a study done that I am not aware of where they discovered an over abundance of deer? Also what was the criteria used to extend the buck only season in both Chestattee and Coopers Creek WMA's i.e. Dec 27-Jan 1?


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## Meat Hunter (Jan 5, 2018)

*I guess not*

You mean none of the DNR employees who regularly monitor this site can give an explanation? Your silence speaks volumes......


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 5, 2018)

As far as "extending" the season in general, all they did was make it a statewide season rather than a north-south difference and that meant that the south half of the state got a little shorter season and the north half got a little longer one.

This was done after MANY public hearings and MUCH discussion that you apparently missed...sorry.  It was discussed heavily here on the GON forum.  You had the same opportunity as the rest of us to give them your opinion before the change was made.


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## PappyHoel (Jan 5, 2018)

It's taking longer to fill 12 tags for subsistence hunters.  Therefore the season needed to be extended in north Georgia too.


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## Meat Hunter (Jan 6, 2018)

Again other than public opinion which is usually pretty subjective, what science was used if any at all? I mean hunting public land specifically in the N Georgia mountain region, i.e. Coopers Creek and Chestatee WMA's. Did anyone conduct a study on these areas? I guess many of you guys don't get out of the office that much, but the numbers are down up there. As far as private lands have at it.  If those hunters haven't figured out that most does have been bred by January and they are killing next years bucks, well as Forrest Gump once said stupid is as stupid does......


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## Gaswamp (Jan 6, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> Again other than public opinion which is usually pretty subjective, what science was used if any at all? I mean hunting public land specifically in the N Georgia mountain region, i.e. Coopers Creek and Chestatee WMA's. Did anyone conduct a study on these areas? I guess many of you guys don't get out of the office that much, but the numbers are down up there. As far as private lands have at it.  If those hunters haven't figured out that most does have been bred by January and they are killing next years bucks, well as Forrest Gump once said stupid is as stupid does......



the same science that gave southern zone baiting.


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## Crakajak (Jan 8, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> Again other than public opinion which is usually pretty subjective, what science was used if any at all? I mean hunting public land specifically in the N Georgia mountain region, i.e. Coopers Creek and Chestatee WMA's. Did anyone conduct a study on these areas? I guess many of you guys don't get out of the office that much, but the numbers are down up there. As far as private lands have at it.  If those hunters haven't figured out that most does have been bred by January and they are killing next years bucks, well as Forrest Gump once said stupid is as stupid does......


It doesn't matter when you kill the does...you are killing future generations of the deer herd.


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## tree cutter 08 (Jan 8, 2018)

I'd rather them close it on January 1st, AND close the cnf on the same day also instead of the 26th. Not enough deer killed that that week to hurt anything since its buck only. Swallows was open also that week too and I bet there was only a handful of deer killed on all three places. Just another chance to hunt thousands of acres that's only open for rifle season few days out of the season. Most bucks on these wmas are killed during peak rut and outside of peak rut you would think deer don't exist. Also they removed doe days on these wmas thankfully, which should have been done years ago.


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## elfiii (Jan 10, 2018)

cowhornedspike said:


> As far as "extending" the season in general, all they did was make it a statewide season rather than a north-south difference and that meant that the south half of the state got a little shorter season and the north half got a little longer one.
> 
> This was done after MANY public hearings and MUCH discussion that you apparently missed...sorry.  It was discussed heavily here on the GON forum.  You had the same opportunity as the rest of us to give them your opinion before the change was made.



This. ^ There were all kinds of public hearings and opportunities for input. It was also a recommendation of almost all of the regional subcommittees that participated in formulating the new 10 year deer management plan.


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## j_seph (Jan 10, 2018)

Crakajak said:


> It doesn't matter when you kill the does...you are killing future generations of the deer herd.


^^^^^^this^^^^^^


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## Rulo (Jan 11, 2018)

elfiii said:


> This. ^ There were all kinds of public hearings and opportunities for input. It was also a recommendation of almost all of the regional subcommittees that participated in formulating the new 10 year deer management plan.



Can someone enlighten me on what .."This.^" and what ^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^ means?   Are you in agreement or in disagreement?


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## Meat Hunter (Jan 16, 2018)

So from the response here "cowhorned spike" I gather that there was no real science used in the setting of these dates? I mean no study of deer populations in these WMA-s just uninformed public opinion?  I have hunted many of theses WMA-s this past season and I have to tell you there are fewer deer every year. I believe that as Georgia hunters we are being short changed by the miss management of theses WMA-s. I truly wonder what the real reason was for the increased days? Maybe the Georgia Insurance lobby? I mean like in example, the deer baiting policy in south Georgia, who pray tell benefited from feeders being legalized down there? I mean like certain deer feeder companies etc. in that region? What happened to the idea of spreading disease such as chronic wasting i.e "mad cow" disease or hoof and mouth disease?


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## PappyHoel (Jan 16, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> So from the response here "cowhorned spike" I gather that there was no real science used in the setting of these dates? I mean no study of deer populations in these WMA-s just uninformed public opinion?  I have hunted many of theses WMA-s this past season and I have to tell you there are fewer deer every year. I believe that as Georgia hunters we are being short changed by the miss management of theses WMA-s. I truly wonder what the real reason was for the increased days? Maybe the Georgia Insurance lobby? I mean like in example, the deer baiting policy in south Georgia, who pray tell benefited from feeders being legalized down there? I mean like certain deer feeder companies etc. in that region? What happened to the idea of spreading disease such as chronic wasting i.e "mad cow" disease or hoof and mouth disease?



The Georgia house of reps sets the day's based on recommendations from DNR.  DNR has meetings with all the old retired statists that have nothing but time on their hands and they complain loudly.  The complainers get relayed to the Georgia house reps, who then make law.  

You can also go complain at the input meetings.  I have a job and family so I don't have time to go complain, instead I complain here.  Maybe when I'm an old curmudgeon I will participate in the "my way is the right way" Deer complaint sessions with DNR?


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 16, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> So from the response here "cowhorned spike" I gather that there was no real science used in the setting of these dates? I mean no study of deer populations in these WMA-s just uninformed public opinion?  I have hunted many of theses WMA-s this past season and I have to tell you there are fewer deer every year. I believe that as Georgia hunters we are being short changed by the miss management of theses WMA-s. I truly wonder what the real reason was for the increased days? Maybe the Georgia Insurance lobby? I mean like in example, the deer baiting policy in south Georgia, who pray tell benefited from feeders being legalized down there? I mean like certain deer feeder companies etc. in that region? What happened to the idea of spreading disease such as chronic wasting i.e "mad cow" disease or hoof and mouth disease?





PappyHoel said:


> The Georgia house of reps sets the day's based on recommendations from DNR.  DNR has meetings with all the old retired statists that have nothing but time on their hands and they complain loudly.  The complainers get relayed to the Georgia house reps, who then make law.
> 
> You can also go complain at the input meetings.  I have a job and family so I don't have time to go complain, instead I complain here.  Maybe when I'm an old curmudgeon I will participate in the "my way is the right way" Deer complaint sessions with DNR?



LOL no use discussing facts with you.  "A man convinced against his will remains a man unconvinced still"

Bye


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## tonyrittenhouse (Jan 16, 2018)

I to have a problem being able to go to these meetings. I work second shift and there is never really a meeting really close to were I live. So, I send my comments in by computer. But, I can't help but feel that my words  would have more impact if they could be heard than read on a computer. Anyway I have really complained about one specific WMA close to were I live ( JOHNS MTN. WMA ) and nothing seems to be done. It gets worse every year as far as deer hunting goes and nothing seems to be done. I see comments people write on Facebook and other places on the computer about how bad the deer population has gotten on the wma and a lot of people thinks it needs shut down for a few years to deer hunting. I am one that agrees it should be shut down but, then again nothing is going to be done so I give up.


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## Rulo (Jan 17, 2018)

I went to the meetings (2 of them), a lot of my fellow rabbit hunting people went, I wrote letters, voiced my concerns,,,,,spoke to my state rep....dont extend the deer season......DNR didn't listen.....the fix was in......between insurance companies and a pro deer hunting DNR staff..who are on this very forum everyday....we didn't stand a chance......

Now that its in place and were looking at deer season being extended to January 31st.........its easy to start questioning why we need game management period.

What do they do other than set game dates and post little yellow Wildlife Missing Area (WMA) signs on trees?  

I am not talking about Game Wardens....we need them...........I am talking about Game Management..............why do we even pay for them?  DO we need  people like this on state payroll?

If the deer population is so stable .........that we can have a deer season that runs from September 9th through January 14th, much of it either sex.....   and soon to be January 31st......and we are a one game animal state (deer) why do we need game management?   

It would be so much cheaper if the state simply contracted with a private entity for recommendations on the condition of the deer herd and all but eliminated game management............


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## Meat Hunter (Jan 18, 2018)

*Drain the swamp*

I'm with you Rulo and Tonyritten, the WMA's really should be called Wildlife missing areas! Unless you go to the crowned jewel Charlie Elliot WMA, which looks like a model WMA, most of the WMA-s in this state are grossly over hunted, not managed at all other than the ever increasing obsession with killing deer. Forget small game rabbits, bobbed white quail, ruff grouse, they worry about the red cockadded woodpecker ! They used to say that they had 40 deer per square mile, I doubt it seriously. You might have ten in the Piedmont region and maybe 5 in the mountain WMA-s.  Like I said in my earlier post, these goverment employees don't get out of their offices much. They like their jobs but hate their positions. Where is the science behind your changes in the deer seaason, wheres the beef boys? I don't buy it and i'm out there all the time. There are large areas in these WMA-s that have little or no wildlife at all.


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## Rulo (Jan 18, 2018)

PappyHoel said:


> The Georgia house of reps sets the day's based on recommendations from DNR.  DNR has meetings with all the old retired statists that have nothing but time on their hands and they complain loudly.  The complainers get relayed to the Georgia house reps, who then make law.
> 
> You can also go complain at the input meetings.  I have a job and family so I don't have time to go complain, instead I complain here.  Maybe when I'm an old curmudgeon I will participate in the "my way is the right way" Deer complaint sessions with DNR?



Yes they do (The Georgia house of reps sets the day's based on recommendations from DNR) The same guys(DNR Game Management......) who are on this very forum with disclaimers stating that there opinions expressed on here don't reflect those related to their job, or whatever... are the ones making recommendations to the legislators....how convenient.....you work for DNR, get on GON, tell us how deer hunting is your passion.....push deer hunting....and then make recommendations for an extended season and then bump it up a week every year until January 31st....

as for the rest of us.....oh its go talk to your representative....he will listen.....well I did....he works in my office complex....and described the process as this......the committees make recommendations, and based on the recommendations.......yea or nay on a bill..........everybody votes for it.........regardless of what constituents think......or want done......

and thats whats going on with this deer season extension stuff.....DNR staff...on here.....push for the extended season.....under the guise that there is a hidden 2nd rut in the northern zone.......so we need to extend the deer season......thus the extended season......

in the meantime you have people who run dogs that get there season cut now by 2 weeks because deer clubs don't want you running dogs period when deer season is in.....

and you wonder why some of us don't care for DNR?

especially when a lot of there staff is on here pushing for an extended deer season...talk about a conflict of interest.....


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## cowhornedspike (Jan 19, 2018)

Show me where the DNR staff members are pushing for the season to continue to the end of January.  Don't believe you can.


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## Meat Hunter (Jan 20, 2018)

Show me the study they used to increase the deer season????? Crickets=chirp, chirp!


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## Rulo (Jan 20, 2018)

cowhornedspike said:


> Show me where the DNR staff members are pushing for the season to continue to the end of January.  Don't believe you can.



I would but don't want to name specific GON Forum Members on here and turn this into a bannable conversation/moment.   

Now about the criteria used to extend the deer season........


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## C.Killmaster (Feb 17, 2018)

Wow, I just saw this.  Since I don't directly manage WMAs anymore, I don't frequent the public land section as much.  

Rulo I know you're talking about me, don't ever worry about calling me out by name.  I respect your opinion just like anyone else, but I can't always make everyone happy.

Personally, I could care less about when deer season ends as it's plenty long enough as it is.  However, for years a substantial number of folks complained about the southern zone getting 2 extra weeks of deer season.  Looking back at the last few season extensions, there was no significant increase in deer harvest and the average number of days people deer hunted did not increase.  Because there was a majority support for the change and there were no negative biological implications, a change was needed.  To seek a compromise between both zones, the decision was made to end the season the second Sunday in January.  Each year the season would end between January 8th and 14th.  In doing so, a contingent of hunters in deep southwest Georgia felt like there ability to hunt the rut, which is later than the rest of the state, was impacted by that decision.  As such, they contacted their representatives and a bill was introduced to extend the season.  This was totally independent of me and I had zero involvement or discussion on the subject with those legislators.

I know some of you think that I only care about deer hunters, which is far from the truth, but it really is the simple fact that a majority of hunters supported it and there was no biological justification to not do it.

Meat Hunter, I'm sorry, but I can't address your concerns on individual WMAs.  I recommend you call the region office and speak with the biologists for those areas to see why the changes were made.

Consider this an open invitation to have a one-on-one conversation about these issues.  Shoot me a PM and I am more than happy to chat on the phone or you can come by my office.  You may realize we have a lot more in common than you think.


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## C.Killmaster (Feb 22, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> You mean none of the DNR employees who regularly monitor this site can give an explanation? Your silence speaks volumes......



Looks like you don't check this thread that often either.


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## Meat Hunter (Feb 26, 2018)

You know I feel like trying to get things changed in this state  i.e. from the department of natural resources or legislators  is like yelling into the wind! For instance Charlie, Redland's WMA or even Cedar Creek both of which had great deer populations twenty years ago, and both through gross mismanagement from both the US forest Service and the Georgia department of Natural resources are mere shadows of what they once were. I know I have have complained about both for years. Now I don't even hunt them anymore. And no we really don't have much in common, if we did we would see you out there in the weeks of the rut deer hunting in these WMA's but If I had to guess you probably hunt private land and not these dismal WMA-s in this state. Tell me how we can re direct the budget of your massive Department to get back to having Game Wardens and Wildlife resources officers who were assigned to individual WMA-s who knew the hunter and bad guys and knew their WMA's. Guys like Coley Paskel, Mallory or even Carl Deletorre.  But I guess like a lot of things in life, all good thing must come to end. For you young guys who never saw a covey of quail flushing, the rustle of a flushing Ruff Grouse in the Georgia Mountains, or seeing white tails darting across the forest service roads at almost every bend. The days when  Game wardens that would help you drag a deer out from the forest and were glad to see a father and his sons in the hunting tradition and not looking at you like you were some one they could check out for a possible violation, Oh those were the days.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Feb 26, 2018)

The WMA's I hunt have abundant deer populations.


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## C.Killmaster (Feb 26, 2018)

Meat Hunter said:


> You know I feel like trying to get things changed in this state  i.e. from the department of natural resources or legislators  is like yelling into the wind! For instance Charlie, Redland's WMA or even Cedar Creek both of which had great deer populations twenty years ago, and both through gross mismanagement from both the US forest Service and the Georgia department of Natural resources are mere shadows of what they once were. I know I have have complained about both for years. Now I don't even hunt them anymore. And no we really don't have much in common, if we did we would see you out there in the weeks of the rut deer hunting in these WMA's but If I had to guess you probably hunt private land and not these dismal WMA-s in this state. Tell me how we can re direct the budget of your massive Department to get back to having Game Wardens and Wildlife resources officers who were assigned to individual WMA-s who knew the hunter and bad guys and knew their WMA's. Guys like Coley Paskel, Mallory or even Carl Deletorre.  But I guess like a lot of things in life, all good thing must come to end. For you young guys who never saw a covey of quail flushing, the rustle of a flushing Ruff Grouse in the Georgia Mountains, or seeing white tails darting across the forest service roads at almost every bend. The days when  Game wardens that would help you drag a deer out from the forest and were glad to see a father and his sons in the hunting tradition and not looking at you like you were some one they could check out for a possible violation, Oh those were the days.



Actually I hunt both public and private land, the private I hunt shares a border with Cedar Creek.  I killed a buck on Cedar Creek a couple of years ago and turkey hunt on several areas, so I am out in the woods on WMAs.  Cedar Creek and Redlands have deer populations that are commensurate with the habitat conditions, both could be much better with more active timber harvest.  Regarding the technicians, it's a staffing issue.  We have fewer technicians than we had then and considerably more land to manage. 

Prior to the license fee increase that happened mid last year, we were operating on the same level of funding as the mid-1990s.  The value of the dollar today is worth almost half of what it was back then.  You were basically seeing the budget gradually decrease by almost half over that time period.  You should start seeing an improvement across the state as we start to hire some more folks over the next couple of years.

I was there when we transitioned from one man, one area to the team concept.  No one liked it, but what else can you do when you're steadily losing positions?


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## DAVE (Aug 5, 2018)

I started hunting deer in Ga. in the sixties, I think the season was 1 maybe 2 weeks at the most, buck only. The deer population was only a small percentage of what it is today. From the efforts of the DNR game managers the herd grew out of control and had to be reduced,  now thanks to the managers at DNR, Georgia has a million plus deer herd, a very long season, liberal limits and plenty of opportunity public and private for hunters regardless if they work or not or even if handicapped. A big Thanks goes out to all the DNR biologists, technicians, office staff and enforcement officials.


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## Rulo (Aug 8, 2018)

Maybe if your only outdoor interest is DEER HUNTING. Otherwise,,,,,,Nope,  I disagree. DNR has failed miserably.   DNRs whole focus is one species.......whitetail deer. The deer season is 4 1/2 months long. DNR has done little to nothing to promote anything but DEER HUNTING.  

Theres more to game management and public relations than simply setting regulations, more to public land management than posting little yellow signs on trees with "wma" on them and doing nothing more.

DNR leaves a lot to be desired.


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