# The AJC interview with "Oversigning Nick"...



## LanierSpots (Jan 21, 2011)

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-b...sabans-dance/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog


I know a good any teams are doing this.  But it is so wrong it is pathetic.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 21, 2011)

And yet fans go on and on about how much tougher the SEC is. Notice how all the top oversigning schools are out of this conference? Kinda easy to be the best when you practice this, you always have room for the best recruits. This is also one of the reasons why Coach Bobby Dodd elected to pull Georgia Tech out of the SEC.

http://oversigning.com/testing/


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> And yet fans go on and on about how much tougher the SEC is. Notice how all the top oversigning schools are out of this conference? Kinda easy to be the best when you practice this, you always have room for the best recruits. This is also one of the reasons why Coach Bobby Dodd elected to pull Georgia Tech out of the SEC.
> 
> http://oversigning.com/testing/


Sorry Jody,...Money and inflated estimation of Tech's/Dodd's importance pulled Tech out of the SEC, worst move for Tech in it's history(athletically/financially)

One questions for all of you guys that bemoan this practice,...(Madsnooker you can't answer, we've covered this ground before)

In Business, School,  life, athletics...little league...what happens to non performers? sub-performers? attitude problems? etc.?

And, sorry , one more question,...where does it say that a Scholarship is full term? is it conditional? it sure is ir regard to academic scholarships,...you don't make the grade...you are gone.
Get over your 
mamby-pamby self righteousness...this is not a new issue,...and if it was such a big deal, it would have been chnged many, many seasons ago.
It simply makes good controversy to sell "news"


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 21, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Sorry Jody,...Money and inflated estimation of Tech's/Dodd's importance pulled Tech out of the SEC, worst move for Tech in it's history(athletically/financially)



While I agree that it was Tech's worst move ever, Dodd was concerned about the oversigning in the SEC even back in the 60s along with his feud with Bear Bryant.


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## tjl1388 (Jan 21, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> And, sorry , one more question,...where does it say that a Scholarship is full term? is it conditional? it sure is ir regard to academic scholarships,...you don't make the grade...you are gone.



I don't agree with the practice if done knowingly but I do agree with the above statement.

Back in the 80's Jimmy Johnson would tell his players that scholarships were renewed yearly so go out and earn it.


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

tjl1388 said:


> I don't agree with the practice if done knowingly but I do agree with the above statement.
> 
> Back in the 80's Jimmy Johnson would tell his players that scholarships were renewed yearly so go out and earn it.



Absolutely.


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## LanierSpots (Jan 21, 2011)

If you dont see or if your too shallow to admit how "unethical" this practice is, no argument on it would make sense.   

If you cant see what kind of chaos would happen if every NCAA team started to have "Summer tryouts", and what would happen to the kids from that point, once again, no discussion would be needed.

There is a big difference in signing more players that you can keep.  IE. counting to last years scholarships (IE South Carolina this year).  Than it is to try players for the summer to see how good they are or signing players that you know  you are eventually going to cut to keep them from other teams (I.E. Da Bear).  

In my opinion, this issue will come to a head in the next few years.   No, it is not against the rules but unethical it is..


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 21, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> If you dont see or if your too shallow to admit how "unethical" this practice is, no argument on it would make sense.
> 
> If you cant see what kind of chaos would happen if every NCAA team started to have "Summer tryouts", and what would happen to the kids from that point, once again, no discussion would be needed.
> 
> ...



Good post. You are right, it is nothing more than "tryouts".


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## Madsnooker (Jan 21, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Sorry Jody,...Money and inflated estimation of Tech's/Dodd's importance pulled Tech out of the SEC, worst move for Tech in it's history(athletically/financially)
> 
> One questions for all of you guys that bemoan this practice,...(Madsnooker you can't answer, we've covered this ground before)
> 
> ...



Although I agree you are technically correct, I will refrain from commenting further becuase I get worked up about this topic as I will more than likely be dealing with this in a few years with my oldest son and basketball(not sure if it is a s big an issue in basketball or not). I really don't want to inadvertantly offend someone here as that is what I have always tried not to do here at the campfire.
I'm going to try and stay out of the oversigning debates from here forward.


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> If you dont see or if your too shallow to admit how "unethical" this practice is, no argument on it would make sense.
> 
> If you cant see what kind of chaos would happen if every NCAA team started to have "Summer tryouts", and what would happen to the kids from that point, once again, no discussion would be needed.
> 
> ...



Ah, we now hear from the self anointed minister of ethics
How about enlightening us on the Ethics of Cam newton?

Your "opinion" has nothing to do with ethics...I'm not sure that you could explain "ethics" to a room full of lawyers.

As long as the Coaches disclose fully the responsibility of the player to perform, then there is no problem with ethics,...by the way, you assume that a sophmore, junior or senior is replaced by a new scholarship player of greater talent...site one example of _*this*_ .

As usual the issue is oversimplified to elicit a response from those prone to jump in half-cocked...guess what, it works.

I assure you that no scholarship athlete who gives 100% and stays in good standing will be "robbed" of his scholarship.


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

Madsnooker said:


> Although I agree you are technically correct, I will refrain from commenting further becuase I get worked up about this topic as I will more than likely be dealing with this in a few years with my oldest son and basketball(not sure if it is a s big an issue in basketball or not). I really don't want to inadvertantly offend someone here as that is what I have always tried not to do here at the campfire.
> I'm going to try and stay out of the oversigning debates from here forward.



I understand your point.
good luck with your son


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## LanierSpots (Jan 21, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Ah, we now hear from the self anointed minister of ethics
> How about enlightening us on the Ethics of Cam newton?
> 
> Your "opinion" has nothing to do with ethics...I'm not sure that you could explain "ethics" to a room full of lawyers.
> ...



Like I said before.  If you do not see or are not solid enough to admit the practice is very unethical, or you decide to turn the conversation away,  then this discussion is useless.  

End of my comments as well.


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

I assure my spotted friend I have a solid foundation in the practice of ethics,...and I know how to discern "ethics" from opinion.
you sir, are attempting to imply that your "feelings"
are fact, and further you state that if I (or anyone ) disagrees or does not share your"feelings", then we are not "solid enough"
 Hold tight to your opinion  no problem with that, but don't confuse your view with the whole picture.


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Jan 21, 2011)

I see both sides of the issue.  I'm not sure that I see it as unethical as long as the coach is up front with the players in telling them that they have to earn the right to keep their scholarship.  Evidently CMR isn't doing enough of it, because UGA never has an overabundance of talent.


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## BROWNING7WSM (Jan 21, 2011)

*oversigning..*

Who cares.

Sounds like its just something else for crybabys to cry over.


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## golffreak (Jan 21, 2011)

Just another thread about Alabama started by an Auburn fan.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 21, 2011)

Dead Eye Eddy said:


> Evidently CMR isn't doing enough of it, because UGA never has an overabundance of talent.



CMR on oversigning ........
"I don't want to oversign, then tell one of the kids we've already got, 'You've got no value to us and toss him aside. I'm not going to do that."


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## tjl1388 (Jan 21, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> CMR on oversigning ........
> "I don't want to oversign, then tell one of the kids we've already got, 'You've got no value to us and toss him aside. I'm not going to do that."



While I agree with Mr. Nice guy Richt, I don't think it is any coincidence that the majority (not all) of the schools on the above list are perennial top 15 schools.

Unfortunately in this world nice guys finish last.  Not saying I agree with any of it...  Just sayin.


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## Georgia Hard Hunter (Jan 21, 2011)

The NCAA needs to do something about this. If a young athlete signs with a School as long as he keeps the grades and stays out of legal trouble it should be good for a degree regardless if this kid is a superstar of never plays a second.


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## riprap (Jan 21, 2011)

Just goes to show you, college football is corrupt as any other big business. 

If the student goes to class and stays out of trouble, he should be able to keep his scholarship. If he is not performing as well as you thought, you should have done a better job recruiting.


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## 00Beau (Jan 21, 2011)

golffreak said:


> Just another thread about Alabama started by an Auburn fan.



Not just an Aubum fan, an Aubum fan obsessed with Saban!!!  Aubum wins the NC, and all he wants to do is talk about Bama.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 21, 2011)

Gee, does this have anything to do with our 13 NCs vs Au's 2?????

What gets me is the finger pointing at CNS over an issue of ethics; etnics are normally outlined in some sort of written "rules of conduct"; things that aren't really against the rules but somehow violate law of humanity.

Then again, if so many are doing it, why do some people (those who do not like Bama) use St Nick as the poster child.  Though Alabama does over-sign, I believe there are a few teams that are worse.  Whay don't some of you point a finger at them?


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

Georgia Hard Hunter said:


> The NCAA needs to do something about this. If a young athlete signs with a School as long as he keeps the grades and stays out of legal trouble it should be good for a degree regardless if this kid is a superstar of never plays a second.


Many players do exactly this...


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> CMR on oversigning ........
> "I don't want to oversign, then tell one of the kids we've already got, 'You've got no value to us and toss him aside. I'm not going to do that."



That is his take on it, not how it happens


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

Someone mentioned "da Bear" let me tell you from first hand experience that "da Bear" allowed a good friend of mine to leave the team...AND keep his scholly...Bear's second season at BAMA and a HUGE  rebuilding year.


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## Stonewall83 (Jan 21, 2011)

To heck with scholly's........180K should get you just about any degree you want in the SEC....With a little bit extra to boot!!!


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## gin house (Jan 21, 2011)

its dirty to oversign,  its dirty to build up a bank full of recruits then pick thru them at the last minute and cast them aside.  that really a waste of the kids time and messes with his plans, sports and school.  if you dont plan to accept their commit then dont offer.  it is really a moral issue, i agree with lanier.  stockpiling recruits to pick and choose and trash, thats wrong.  if a school is going to publicly offer and the kid accepts they should have to honor their commit to him. IMO


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## RipperIII (Jan 21, 2011)

gin house said:


> its dirty to oversign,  its dirty to build up a bank full of recruits then pick thru them at the last minute and cast them aside.  that really a waste of the kids time and messes with his plans, sports and school.  if you dont plan to accept their commit then dont offer.  it is really a moral issue, i agree with lanier.  stockpiling recruits to pick and choose and trash, thats wrong.  if a school is going to publicly offer and the kid accepts they should have to honor their commit to him. IMO


Sorry Gin,...but you don't know what you are talking about, recruits or signees are not "stock piled" and picked through...you should do a little more research.


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## Jody Hawk (Jan 22, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Sorry Gin,...but you don't know what you are talking about, recruits or signees are not "stock piled" and picked through...you should do a little more research.



So all the countless stories that I've read on this subject, all the allegations I've read about and even the above quote from Coach Mark Richt are all bogus? It's all made up to sell news?


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## LanierSpots (Jan 22, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> So all the countless stories that I've read on this subject, all the allegations I've read about and even the above quote from Coach Mark Richt are all bogus? It's all made up to sell news?



"There is way too much that doesn't make sense, even a bammer should be able to see it. But no, they hold Saban up almost as a diety."

Famous quote by one of the great bama posters here from another thread.  I just applied it to the appropriate place


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> "There is way too much that doesn't make sense, even a bammer should be able to see it. But no, they hold Saban up almost as a diety."
> 
> Famous quote by one of the great bama posters here from another thread.  I just applied it to the appropriate place


Please ignore my statement where I said "Though Alabama does over-sign,,,,,,".

When I stated that barners hold Newton up as diety, the statement was not directed at you and I don't believe you can point to anything that even faintly indicates that it does.  If you would like, you can access my facebook and see where a bunch of barners were just gushing over him and it's epidemic.  The kid is a good ball player but he does have a lot of dirt on him.  I grew up in Alabama, still have a lot of friends there, many of which are AU fans.


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## AccUbonD (Jan 22, 2011)

Problem seems to be more at LSU and Alabama in the SEC. I posted a video a few weeks ago on this subject. It talked more about LSU and a kid getting the shaft after Miles run his numbers. The thread didn't have much popularity as this one.


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## LanierSpots (Jan 22, 2011)

AccUbonD said:


> Problem seems to be more at LSU and Alabama in the SEC. I posted a video a few weeks ago on this subject. It talked more about LSU and a kid getting the shaft after Miles run his numbers. The thread didn't have much popularity as this one.



The oversigning problem is a problem throughout the SEC.  Ole Miss, may end up being the worse at it.  The difference in them and Bama, is that Ole Miss is not going to be a contender or will contend for the recruiting wars.. So, you dont hear as much about it by the big 10 or other fans.

I know Tubberville had some shady recruiting techniques.  I never liked that part of his game.   His were a little different but in the end, it is no different than what Nick Saban is doing now.   He is sorting kids out and picking the ones he wants.   Plain and simple.  He is holding try outs.

AS far as Cam goes, I don't necessarily defend him and I certainly do not defend his father.  My initial response to this topic has not changed since the first day it came out.  Until there is some proof that AUBURN UNIVERSITY did something wrong, I will just sit idle.


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## AccUbonD (Jan 22, 2011)

Dooley kinda worries me since he coached under Saban for so long. Hopefully he didn't pick up this practice from Saban. Only time will tell because Tennessee first has to make it to a full roster.


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## paddlin samurai (Jan 22, 2011)

When Spurrier first took over he announced that kids who were not comitted to the program would have their schollys taken away.  High school coaches in south carolina threw a fit and threaten to bar our coaches from visiting their schools.  We had kids who were spending more time at Bojangles than in the class or weight room and to top it off they would drive a golf cart instead of walk to Bojangles.  You get a free ride and thats for giving it your all in the classroom and the playing field.  If we did that in the real world we would be out of a job in no time.  Add up 5 years of tuition, books, and housing- i ve paid that bill 3 times at Carolina and it aint cheap.  College football is a big business and its intertainment too.  As a fan and alumni i expect those kids on scholly to earn that free ride anually.  Carolina over signs and we make the numbers add up.  Heck these kids coaches and school officials will tell u the kid is academically sound then u find out he is not or that some of his classes are not recognized by the NCAA clearinghouse - or the kid had a major injury in the high school playoffs and needs major surgery and wont be ready for the fall.  Most of ours is the grade issue therefore we send them to Georgia Military.  Over signing can be unethical but sometimes its neccessary- it is what it is.


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## fairhopebama (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> The oversigning problem is a problem throughout the SEC.  Ole Miss, may end up being the worse at it.  The difference in them and Bama, is that Ole Miss is not going to be a contender or will contend for the recruiting wars.. So, you dont hear as much about it by the big 10 or other fans.
> 
> I know Tubberville had some shady recruiting techniques.  I never liked that part of his game.   His were a little different but in the end, it is no different than what Nick Saban is doing now.   He is sorting kids out and picking the ones he wants.   Plain and simple.  He is holding try outs.
> 
> AS far as Cam goes, I don't necessarily defend him and I certainly do not defend his father.  My initial response to this topic has not changed since the first day it came out.  Until there is some proof that AUBURN UNIVERSITY did something wrong, I will just sit idle.



I read an article on Trooper "thug" Taylor the other day that referenced his history as a recruiter and previous recruiting jobs. It talked about how dirty of a recruiter he is. Everything from slamming other schools to paying players. I don't know how much truth there is to the story but the whole Bama oversigning issue, I am sure is being used to his advantage. It all goes back to if you don't have a good story to tell about your own program, slam someone elses. Most of the recruits are hearing that because of the depth at Bama, they will not play. These kids need to realize that in fact he is telling them that they are not good enough to play at Bama.


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

Jody Hawk said:


> So all the countless stories that I've read on this subject, all the allegations I've read about and even the above quote from Coach Mark Richt are all bogus? It's all made up to sell news?



Jody, I've done a fair amount of research on this too, and I have not found a single legitimate case where a player had a scholly pulled because  "better player was signed"...can you?
Go to ESPN and check out Feldman's latest article on this topic.


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## LanierSpots (Jan 22, 2011)

fairhope said:


> I read an article on Trooper "thug" Taylor the other day that referenced his history as a recruiter and previous recruiting jobs. It talked about how dirty of a recruiter he is. Everything from slamming other schools to paying players. I don't know how much truth there is to the story but the whole Bama oversigning issue, I am sure is being used to his advantage. It all goes back to if you don't have a good story to tell about your own program, slam someone elses. Most of the recruits are hearing that because of the depth at Bama, they will not play. These kids need to realize that in fact he is telling them that they are not good enough to play at Bama.



Im not really sure what Trooper "Thug" Taylor has to do with Bama oversigning and sending players packing after their "tryouts".   

If Saban does not want to be short of GREAT players, he should just do a better job of evaluating talent instead of holding tryouts.


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

Oh, and as another point,...since Saban is reported to be the "worst offender"...if this were the case(dropping schollies to make room for better players) just how many kid's would take that chance?...BAMA does not seem to have any problem getting players to sign...so what does that mean? Would you sign if you knew you could be dropped simply because a "better player" was signed?


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## fairhopebama (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> Im not really sure what Trooper "Thug" Taylor has to do with Bama oversigning and sending players packing after their "tryouts".
> 
> If Saban does not want to be short of GREAT players, he should just do a better job of evaluating talent instead of holding tryouts.



Not sure that they are holding tryouts, but I could be wrong. However, I would rather them hold tryouts than getting players because they were the highest bidder.


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/blog?name=feldman_bruce&id=6045571

all you little "tryouts are bad"  you aren't even close ...but what should  I expect


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> "There is way too much that doesn't make sense, even a bammer should be able to see it. But no, they hold Saban up almost as a diety."
> 
> Famous quote by one of the great bama posters here from another thread.  I just applied it to the appropriate place




Can't speak for any other BAMA fan,. but I'm not defending Saban, I'm pointing out the silliness of several of your post.


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## LanierSpots (Jan 22, 2011)

fairhope said:


> Not sure that they are holding tryouts, but I could be wrong. However, I would rather them hold tryouts than getting players because they were the highest bidder.




Yea, not way you guys would ever do that

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2002-02-01-alabama-violations.htm

The problem with you guys is, your homerism will not let you be objective.  Its a useless debate.   You know holding tryouts is wrong.  You know Saban is one of the coaches who do it and you either dont care or dont have the backbone to say it.

I know we have had some bad recruiting practices in the past and I by no means support any of them.


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## gin house (Jan 22, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Sorry Gin,...but you don't know what you are talking about, recruits or signees are not "stock piled" and picked through...you should do a little more research.



ripper i know exacly what im talking about.  when theres ten to fifteen recruits that have to be cut, why is it all the time mostly the first to commit?   reason being is the better or higher ranked players will hold out till near the end of the process as to where an average player will commit to ensure he has a spot in time.  research what im saying and you'll see it.   this will sound stupiud but really this is the way it works.  you are a kid picking a dodge ball team, you can only keep ten but most the kids want to be on your team, well, you pick fifteen  while in the meantime the other guy is picking the better players are in your 15.   how do you get rid of five?  by judging the better player? or by number you selected them?  its really simple, and dirty but the fact is it happens.  i know exactly what im talking about.


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## fairhopebama (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> Yea, not way you guys would ever do that
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2002-02-01-alabama-violations.htm
> 
> ...




Homerism? Coming from you I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or an insult. You sir are assuming that the kids that leave the program are asked to leave, don't have medical issues, academic issues or another circumstance that removes them. You can argue with the medical staff all you want whether  it is safe to play football again after an injury and I am sure that you would do it well, but UA and Saban would rather be on the cautious side and do what is right rather than having the liability of a kid falling out on the field. Don't know if you remember Zeke Knight who was to be a superstar on the Defense for Bama. He had a heart condition and the medical staff at Bama would not clear him so Saban would not let him play. He went North and got clearance and played and did okay. Saban listened to the medical staff even though what they were saying is probably not what Saban wanted to hear about a star in the making.
I am sure you will dig something up about a player that was asked to leave because of lack of performance, but surely you understand that these kids have huge egos and sometimes the damage to their ego will lead them to say things.
A scholarship is a contract and when someone can not live up to their side of the contract the risk of that contract being stripped is there. Just as a kid coming out and getting a full ride for academics has an obligation to make good grades, if he or she doesn't, do you think that the school owes it to them to continue to pay their way? Keep in mind that maybe the school was just not the right fit for that child which lead to the bad grades.


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

gin house said:


> ripper i know exacly what im talking about.  when theres ten to fifteen recruits that have to be cut, why is it all the time mostly the first to commit?   reason being is the better or higher ranked players will hold out till near the end of the process as to where an average player will commit to ensure he has a spot in time.  research what im saying and you'll see it.   this will sound stupiud but really this is the way it works.  you are a kid picking a dodge ball team, you can only keep ten but most the kids want to be on your team, well, you pick fifteen  while in the meantime the other guy is picking the better players are in your 15.   how do you get rid of five?  by judging the better player? or by number you selected them?  its really simple, and dirty but the fact is it happens.  i know exactly what im talking about.



Gin, sight one example as you describe it.
If it worked that way, then no one would commit to that program til the last day,...if at all.

Bottom line is this, some of you guys on here sound lke a bunch of hysterical women, sitting around their knitting circle fretting about the end of the world.

Did you read any of the links that I posted?
Your analogy is simple and not close to the reality of the situation.
I had friends at BAMA who were walk ons, scout team only, part time players, starters and all conference.
I never once heard of a player run off for anything other than a legitimate reason.
I am sure that there exist a few isolated instances and I do not pretend that there aren't more than a few unscrupulous coaches, head or other wise, but if the scenario played out as you describe, then no-one of any caliber would sign with that program...at least not without being willing o take that risk.


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## AbbaDab (Jan 22, 2011)

AccUbonD said:


> Dooley kinda worries me since he coached under Saban for so long. Hopefully he didn't pick up this practice from Saban. Only time will tell because Tennessee first has to make it to a full roster.



Did you approve of Kiffin's recruiting tactics during his long career with the Vols?


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## LanierSpots (Jan 22, 2011)

i will not try and argue if they are injured or forced to grey shirt or what ever.   But If Im not mistaken, Bama had 12 grey shirts last year.  You are already 10 over the 85 limit with what you have committed this year and still recruiting.  We all know you will pick up atleast 3 or 4 more.   

Care to offer how those numbers will work out?


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## RipperIII (Jan 22, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> i will not try and argue if they are injured or forced to grey shirt or what ever.   But If Im not mistaken, Bama had 12 grey shirts last year.  You are already 10 over the 85 limit with what you have committed this year and still recruiting.  We all know you will pick up atleast 3 or 4 more.
> 
> Care to offer how those numbers will work out?



Several will not make their grades and I hear that at least two are discipline problems...


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 23, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Gin, sight one example as you describe it.
> If it worked that way, then no one would commit to that program til the last day,...if at all.



Here's an example.



> "I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."





RipperIII said:


> I never once heard of a player run off for anything other than a legitimate reason.



I sure have.



> Four players hadn't been invited back to the program because they had "violated some type of team rule."
> 
> "These guys all did something," Mr. Saban continued, without elaborating. "It doesn't make them bad people.…These guys didn't do what they were supposed to do here, whether it was for academic reasons or whatever. They're not going to be part of the program."
> 
> In interviews with The Wall Street Journal, three of the players Mr. Saban mentioned that day—cornerback Alonzo Lawrence, running back Jermaine Preyear and linebacker Prince Hall—said Mr. Saban's statement about their departures wasn't accurate.



Call us hysterical women all you like.  This stuff's just dirty, as is so much of college football.


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 23, 2011)

Violation of team rules is not a legit reason??????????


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 23, 2011)

David Mills said:


> Violation of team rules is not a legit reason??????????



Sure it is.  But read the article and you'll see that's not what happened, even though Saban's claiming it is.  When asked what rule they broke, he's saying he can't comment due to privacy laws.  Just like when the other article mentions medical scholarships....they can't comment, conveniently, due to HIPAA stipulations.


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## gin house (Jan 23, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Gin, sight one example as you describe it.
> If it worked that way, then no one would commit to that program til the last day,...if at all.
> 
> Bottom line is this, some of you guys on here sound lke a bunch of hysterical women, sitting around their knitting circle fretting about the end of the world.
> ...



fairhope, my post was simple and thats really how it is.  im not bitter or like an old woman knitting or whatever, this has been the case at bama and other big schools for a long time, look at bryant and how the rules changed to keep him in check, cant blame the guy he was a smart man and knew how to win.   it is pick up a bunch of guys then pick thru them and kids are gonna do it to get on the roster at bama for the simple fact they might get a NC.   bama has what 12 NC titles?  that will make kids take the risk to make the roster.   im not bitter about it, i have no dog in the fight im just saying its wrong in so many ways to the kid and other teams.    i also wonder why auburn is picking up these great recruits this year with the possibility of the ncaa coming in next season and ruling against auburn, why would they want to be on a team that possilly could be in sanctions the whole time theyre in college?  that may not happen but its a decent possibility that it could, if i was a recruit it would cross my mind quite a bit but like you posted you dont think they would come if that was the case, i really dont know that these kids think a whole lot past where they want to go and why.   im not bitter at anybody, it is in my opinion wrong but the ncaa has to stop it, griping about it does no good.


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## RipperIII (Jan 23, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Here's an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you Sir...you prove my point.
Each Instance you (and WSJ) present represents legitimate reasons, medical.... many players want to continue to play regardless of doctor's advice, violation of team rules ...not passing a drug test maybe? discipline problems?     
Lack of effort, or poor attitude...you don't think these are legitimate reasons?
I do.
I had to "compete" academically to get into college, "try-out"
I had to maintain my grades to stay in College (performance) 
I had to act in a disciplined and responsible manner to stay in ...University rules (by the way I got one warning)
No one, or few who are kicked off a team, or do not have their scholly continued (one contract) will say that they deserved it.


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## RipperIII (Jan 23, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Sure it is.  But read the article and you'll see that's not what happened, even though Saban's claiming it is.  When asked what rule they broke, he's saying he can't comment due to privacy laws.  Just like when the other article mentions medical scholarships....they can't comment, conveniently, due to HIPAA stipulations.



I'm sure you would like the press and everyone that you know, including possible future employers that you failed a drug test, cheated on exams, got caught stealing, or any number of other team rules...


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## RipperIII (Jan 23, 2011)

gin house said:


> fairhope, my post was simple and thats really how it is.  im not bitter or like an old woman knitting or whatever, this has been the case at bama and other big schools for a long time, look at bryant and how the rules changed to keep him in check, cant blame the guy he was a smart man and knew how to win.   it is pick up a bunch of guys then pick thru them and kids are gonna do it to get on the roster at bama for the simple fact they might get a NC.   bama has what 12 NC titles?  that will make kids take the risk to make the roster.   im not bitter about it, i have no dog in the fight im just saying its wrong in so many ways to the kid and other teams.    i also wonder why auburn is picking up these great recruits this year with the possibility of the ncaa coming in next season and ruling against auburn, why would they want to be on a team that possilly could be in sanctions the whole time theyre in college?  that may not happen but its a decent possibility that it could, if i was a recruit it would cross my mind quite a bit but like you posted you dont think they would come if that was the case, i really dont know that these kids think a whole lot past where they want to go and why.   im not bitter at anybody, it is in my opinion wrong but the ncaa has to stop it, griping about it does no good.



Gin,
just a point of fact...the rule changes limiting scholarships was done to spread out the talent to the many smaller schools,...not aimed at Bryant, All of the traditional top ten schools did it...because it was allowed.
I'm glad they did it, makes for more competition.

The other key point that you make validationg my point is this,...the kids are "willing to take the risk" and _THAT_ is the crux of the issue.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 23, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> Thank you Sir...you prove my point.
> Each Instance you (and WSJ) present represents legitimate reasons



Okay, you're just seeing what you want to see.  There's no real reason for me to go any further with this.  Frankly I feel it reflects poorly on you.


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## RipperIII (Jan 23, 2011)

Sounds to me like you sir are just seeing what you want to see.

You guys never address the above stated issues, namely this issue of ...if this practice is well known, then why does the athlete take the risk?...Because he wants to.

How about the flip side? what about the kid who receives the "new" scholarship?...maybe he doesn't get the chance at his chosen University with out a "new" scholarship?

You guys never answer these questions,...or the fact that the scholarships are 1-year "renewable".

How long do you coddle these"kids"?
No other student is guaranteed a full scholarship that does not come with stipulations?


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 23, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Sure it is.  But read the article and you'll see that's not what happened, even though Saban's claiming it is.  When asked what rule they broke, he's saying he can't comment due to privacy laws.  Just like when the other article mentions medical scholarships....they can't comment, conveniently, due to HIPAA stipulations.


 We had a kid suspended the whole year last year (Robbie Green) and no one (public) knows why to this day.  It's common for Saban to keep things under wraps.  

Robbie will be returning this upcoming season.


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## whitworth (Jan 24, 2011)

*Football is a brutal sport*

The one problem is coaches are paid fantastic salaries to do one thing-win games and championships.   Many fans are worried about one thing.  Getting expensive tickets to watch their  "alma mater" team win.  Having taken one credit course at the campus isn't required.  

Yes, there are rules that limit the number of football players at a school.  In the old days, it was possible for some schools to stockpile players.  Some never played.  They had scholarships and some majored in -4th string guard.   Going to class was up to them. 

Many football scholarships are not given to "academic scholars."    And some just won't make it through two or three years of a scholarship, because of academic problems.   No one knows that better than a football coach.  He knows some on scholarship will not make the academic grade; a necessity for staying on scholarship.  Get a poor marginal student who is under performing  on the football field and in class, and you have a built in reason for some players to "drop out of school."  Not many young people can pay that double exacting price.

Football is a brutal sport.


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## fairhopebama (Jan 24, 2011)

gin house said:


> fairhope, my post was simple and thats really how it is.  im not bitter or like an old woman knitting or whatever, this has been the case at bama and other big schools for a long time, look at bryant and how the rules changed to keep him in check, cant blame the guy he was a smart man and knew how to win.   it is pick up a bunch of guys then pick thru them and kids are gonna do it to get on the roster at bama for the simple fact they might get a NC.   bama has what 12 NC titles?  that will make kids take the risk to make the roster.   im not bitter about it, i have no dog in the fight im just saying its wrong in so many ways to the kid and other teams.    i also wonder why auburn is picking up these great recruits this year with the possibility of the ncaa coming in next season and ruling against auburn, why would they want to be on a team that possilly could be in sanctions the whole time theyre in college?  that may not happen but its a decent possibility that it could, if i was a recruit it would cross my mind quite a bit but like you posted you dont think they would come if that was the case, i really dont know that these kids think a whole lot past where they want to go and why.   im not bitter at anybody, it is in my opinion wrong but the ncaa has to stop it, griping about it does no good.


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## Jay Hughes (Jan 25, 2011)

Just one question for you all.  If I am understanding right, most people here feel like a scholarship should be honored for four years or five if they red-shirt by the University.  If that is true, why should the University let someone enter the draft after only giving three years to the program?


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## AccUbonD (Jan 26, 2011)

If scholly's are renewed on a yearly basis, then kids should beable to transfer without so much legal stuff.


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## RipperIII (Jan 26, 2011)

AccUbonD said:


> If scholly's are renewed on a yearly basis, then kids should beable to transfer without so much legal stuff.



"legal stuff"
are you referring to the year off, if transferring w/n the same conference?


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## fairhopebama (Jan 26, 2011)

Jay Hughes said:


> Just one question for you all.  If I am understanding right, most people here feel like a scholarship should be honored for four years or five if they red-shirt by the University.  If that is true, why should the University let someone enter the draft after only giving three years to the program?



Great Question. I can see a few guys scraching their heads right now. I am sure you will get no response here. The sound of Crickets is going to be deafening.


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## riprap (Jan 26, 2011)

Jay Hughes said:


> Just one question for you all.  If I am understanding right, most people here feel like a scholarship should be honored for four years or five if they red-shirt by the University.  If that is true, why should the University let someone enter the draft after only giving three years to the program?



If the athlete leaves then he should have to pay the university an average tuition rate for the years he/she has left to achieve the diploma they were attempting to achieve. If the university lets you go, then they are out of luck until your scheduled time is up. Either way, if it's your fault or theirs for not living up to their expectations they are out four years of scholarship. This will assure everything is done to keep the athlete in school and try to work out any shortcomings he has on the field. It will also make the coaches decision more difficult in recruiting.


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## DDD (Jan 26, 2011)

I find it classic posting that an Auburn guy is lecturing Bammers and the rest of the SEC about ethics.  I guess you back your way into a NC with a one year player, not paid to play of course,  now twice removed from UF, and you have earned the right to preach to everyone else.  

Yeah, UGA is not far down that list, but I am not preaching ethics to everyone.  

I also love how someone who always takes the "high road", in truth likes to dish it out, but very obviously can't take it.  You say anything bad about Auburn, you are a hater.  Ryan says anything bad about your team and he is just "making a point".  

Championships has it's priveledges, somewhere there is an American Express comercial just waiting for Cam.

What's that old saying if you can't take it, don't dish it.  

But I am sure I am a hater.  Wonder if #8 is right around the corner?  There is a church on the south side of Atlanta that might be part of #8.  That church is looking good too.


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## AbbaDab (Jan 26, 2011)

DDD said:


> I find it classic posting that an Auburn guy is lecturing Bammers and the rest of the SEC about ethics.  I guess you back your way into a NC with a one year player, not paid to play of course,  now twice removed from UF, and you have earned the right to preach to everyone else.
> 
> Yeah, UGA is not far down that list, but I am not preaching ethics to everyone.
> 
> ...



And a Colonial Bank Debit card for every other player on the Plains that is now useless


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## RipperIII (Jan 26, 2011)




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## Fletch_W (Jan 26, 2011)

What really surprises me isn't that schools do this, and hide it, but when made public, people/fans actually try to defend it. 


I understand why Saban does what he does, and it isn't just Saban. But for regular people to jump on the wagon and condone it is just weird.


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## fairhopebama (Jan 26, 2011)

I must be missing something. I don't see Bama on that list. With all that has been spewed out on this forum alone about Bama this list of Cheaters has to be a misprint.


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## DDD (Jan 26, 2011)

fairhope said:


> I must be missing something. I don't see Bama on that list. With all that has been spewed out on this forum alone about Bama this list of Cheaters has to be a misprint.



Yeah, statistics hurt sometimes.


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## RipperIII (Jan 26, 2011)

wow, 4 hrs and not a single Auburnite has chimed in...


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## rhbama3 (Jan 26, 2011)

RipperIII said:


> wow, 4 hrs and not a single Auburnite has chimed in...



The Warden said lights out at 8pm.


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## RipperIII (Jan 27, 2011)

12hrs and still silent as a mausoleum...


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## DSGB (Jan 27, 2011)

Ole Miss and Auburn leading the way in the SEC.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/01/24/oversigning/index.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/01/24/oversigning-data/index.html


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## paddlin samurai (Jan 27, 2011)

Nick the weas snooping in South Carolina- guess hiring Rumph from clemtech aint working in getting our boys to go to Low Tide.


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## Bruz (Jan 27, 2011)

It's wrong. Everyone knows it. Justify it however you wish but you're talking about a young Man's education and future. 

If it happened to your kid and you couldn't afford to pay his way your response would be much different. I saw this happen to friends who were good people. They couldn't help the fact that this years Freshman was a better athlete so they had to leave school. 

It is wrong. 

Bruz


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## RipperIII (Jan 27, 2011)

DSGB said:


> Ole Miss and Auburn leading the way in the SEC.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/01/24/oversigning/index.html
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/01/24/oversigning-data/index.html



Holy Cow?! BAMA is averaging 1 and a half more signees per class than is allowed,...1 and a half??? 

Awful!, just Awful!

But, yet the AUBURN TIGERS, NATIONAL CHAMPS  are avg. 2.88 or 3 more per class? ...and yet Saban is a fiend
Chizick's class doesn't even count the salaried players

...and yet again, there are those on here who swear that Saban conducts massive "try-outs" to eliminate underperforming athletes...


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## BROWNING7WSM (Jan 27, 2011)

DDD said:


> I find it classic posting that an Auburn guy is lecturing Bammers and the rest of the SEC about ethics.  I guess you back your way into a NC with a one year player, not paid to play of course,  now twice removed from UF, and you have earned the right to preach to everyone else.
> 
> Yeah, UGA is not far down that list, but I am not preaching ethics to everyone.
> 
> ...



Well,  that pretty much sums things up..


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## fairhopebama (Jan 27, 2011)

did someone put a Barner Gag order in effect for this thread..... Did someone turn on a light? The roaches seamed to have crawled back into the woodwork...


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 27, 2011)

fairhope said:


> did someone put a Barner Gag order in effect for this thread..... Did someone turn on a light? The roaches seamed to crawl back in the woodwork...



So much for facts,,,,,


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## golffreak (Jan 28, 2011)

fairhope said:


> did someone put a Barner Gag order in effect for this thread..... Did someone turn on a light? The roaches seamed to crawl back in the woodwork...



No...that's the normal reaction when they are proven to be wrong.


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## 00Beau (Jan 28, 2011)

OOPS!  Roll Tide!!!


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## Dudley Do-Wrong (Jan 29, 2011)

OK, why are some of you pointing your crooked fingers at CNS considering the below.  This thread was started by a barner whose team is worse than Bama!!!!!


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## AbbaDab (Jan 29, 2011)

David Mills said:


> OK, why are some of you pointing your crooked fingers at CNS considering the below.  This thread was started by a barner whose team is worse than Bama!!!!!



Maybe the Barners thought the players they signed and also gave their parents $$$ did not get included in this tally....Just saying


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## hotdawg (Jan 29, 2011)

David Mills said:


> OK, why are some of you pointing your crooked fingers at CNS considering the below.  This thread was started by a barner whose team is worse than Bama!!!!!



it reminds me of what one auburn fan said about ga. fans hiding??

maybe this is a form of hiding????

they seem easily irritated so go easy on them wah eagas!


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## yellowduckdog (Jan 29, 2011)

hotdawg said:


> it reminds me of what one auburn fan said about ga. fans hiding??
> 
> maybe this is a form of hiding????
> 
> they seem easily irritated so go easy on them wah eagas!



Not hiding , last week of duck season & admiring NC, no time to argue with no it alls..

However TT was bad about oversigning but was relieved of his duties in 08 we signed 32 last year of which 5 went back a year to fill the shortage we had with the leaving of a coach.So they enrolled early..We did not make kids medical scholly or ask them to transfer, now scurry away cockroaches yall are like the national enquirer 


Oh Yeah WDE


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## LanierSpots (Jan 29, 2011)

There are different levels of oversigning and why they are done.  Most of them are bad reasons but some are legit.   The biggest issue with this is ending up with more than your 85 allowed scollys which in turn makes teams have to grey shirt or give unnecessary medical hardships to players or just pull scholarships which is also being done.  I do find it "interesting" that Nick Saban at Alabama has had 13 kids with a "medical hardship" over the past three years and the rest of the SEC combined (11 teams) has had 13.  Odd.  Maybe he just works his kids harder?  

I would in no way take up for illegal recruiting techniques for Auburn or  any other team.  Tommy Tubberville was not the cleanest recruiter for us which was documented.   He had a habit
of bringing in players that would not qualify and send them to Juco.  Some would eventually rejoin the team and some never were able to get their grades up to do so.  Some say that is a good thing but it is shady. 

Last year we signed over our 25 limit but we were 10 players under the 85 cap from 2009 so we had some early enrollees which counted back against those numbers.  We send no one packing and actually ended up under the 85 max and gave three walk ons scollys during the season. 

Its all about the final numbers.  Will you be able to keep your players or will you have to cut them in some illegal form or fashion?  If your team has 85 scolly players and you lose 15 of them as seniors or NFL, you can only offer 15 more.  Its easy math.  

There are plenty of articles on this subject and just check them all.  You will see who the poster child is for oversigning.  

Its a old argument and no way to solve it.  You can just see what is going on and make up your own mind until rules are implemented to stop it.  I said it before, if you look at it and think it is not unethical, this discussion is useless. No matter what team is doing it.


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## LanierSpots (Jan 29, 2011)

I do however love this list.  Its funny how some UGA fans love to flash this list up everytime something Auburn is discussed.  Does Auburn's ONE more infraction make you feel so much better about UGA that you use it as a staple of cheating?  LOL .


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## AbbaDab (Jan 29, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> I do however love this list.  Its funny how some UGA fans love to flash this list up everytime something Auburn is discussed.  Does Auburn's ONE more infraction make you feel so much better about UGA that you use it as a staple of cheating?  LOL .



Probably just wondering why Barners try to get on everyone else when they lead the SEC in this category. Pot, meet kettle. Just saying...


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## DDD (Jan 31, 2011)

LanierSpots said:


> I do however love this list.  Its funny how some UGA fans love to flash this list up everytime something Auburn is discussed.  Does Auburn's ONE more infraction make you feel so much better about UGA that you use it as a staple of cheating?  LOL .



No, the UGA fans are not in here preaching ethics, but you are.  

Pot calling the kettle.

Again, backing into the latest National Championship and every cow tipper is out telling the rest of the SEC how bad they are and how clean Auburn is.  Give me a break.


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