# Drill with interesting base



## QSVC (Sep 6, 2014)

I'm inexperienced but I've never seen a drill with a base other than in a cross shape. Like if you turned it upside down it would look like a "t". Found this today. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks!


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## dtala (Sep 6, 2014)

drill made from an exhausted Dalton point, Early Archaic. 7000BC er so....very nice


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## KentuckyHeadhunter (Sep 6, 2014)

Yup...Dalton.  Great find!!!!


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## Willjo (Sep 6, 2014)

yup what dtala said


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## Bow Only (Sep 6, 2014)

Playing the Devil's Advocate,  I'm going to disagree.  No one knows for sure, but I've got to go with my gut and my gut is saying it's not Dalton.   We have all held a lot of points before and sometimes, my brain just tells me things that don't seem right at first glance.  It looks like a Dalton, but my brain overrides what it looks like.  I may be wrong, but I'm saying it's a Woodland point.


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## Nicodemus (Sep 6, 2014)

I wonder if the base and sides where it was hafted are heavily ground?


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## KentuckyHeadhunter (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes if Dalton period the base should be ground and often the sides.  Something is odd about it for sure but I just initially thought Dalton.  Look rough chipped though and not as precisely made as an early Dalton.  In my opinion, the later periods such as woodland became sloppier and took less effort in their finished products than earlier native peoples.  The most beautiful and well made points are paleo, transitional, and early archaic.  A perfect Cumberland point is an amazing piece of art and craft and my personal favorite


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## Bow Only (Sep 6, 2014)

Nicodemus said:


> I wonder if the base and sides where it was hafted are heavily ground?



Auricles don't look ground on either side to me.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 7, 2014)

KentuckyHeadhunter said:


> Yes if Dalton period the base should be ground and often the sides.  Something is odd about it for sure but I just initially thought Dalton.  Look rough chipped though and not as precisely made as an early Dalton.  In my opinion, the later periods such as woodland became sloppier and took less effort in their finished products than earlier native peoples.  The most beautiful and well made points are paleo, transitional, and early archaic.  A perfect Cumberland point is an amazing piece of art and craft and my personal favorite



Oh, they could still do it just as well as the Paleo guys when they took a notion to. Ever saw some of those big Ross blades, or the foot-and-a-half-long thin, perfectly flaked Duck River swords, or those little perfect Cahokia points, or the soda-cracker thin Turkeytail points as wide as your hand with cortex still on each tip? They are some of the hardest styles to replicate. I just think that after the introduction of the bow and arrow, which ran best with small triangular points, there was not much need to do fancy knapping, except for those big ceremonial pieces.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 7, 2014)

It looks very,  very, very Dalton, just not very finished-like a Dalton before grinding. Maybe a quickie drill made from a Dalton that broke during manufacture? I also doubt if they had point inspectors that came around and made sure that every individual point produced by thousands of individual knappers over a couple thousand years matched exactly to the official textbook standard for the convenience of future archaologists and point collectors. ("Did you hear about poor old Torgu?  He got kicked out of the tribe because he didn't grind all his drill bases. When somebody finds one of 'em ten thousand years from now, they'll argue on the internet what type it was, and it'll just look bad on our culture as a whole.")  I've seen quite a few Hardaway/Dalton points made from tough material that were pretty crude looking.


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## KentuckyHeadhunter (Sep 7, 2014)

Yes I would agree with those exceptions NCH.  But the Mississippian people's had smart phones compared to those ole boys. I am huge fan of later period lithics although mostly the pipe and pottery making traditions.  The Cahokia points are a wonder to behold and ceremonial items are the top pieces. The SECC stuff still blows me away.  I wonder how many languages changed in ten thousand years.... You would NOT want to run into one of these dudes in the woods. They were the masters of their universe. I love talking about this stuff. I am glad other members on here are as fascinated as I am with the early American "ancestors".


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 7, 2014)

KentuckyHeadhunter said:


> Yes I would agree with those exceptions NCH.  But the Mississippian people's had smart phones compared to those ole boys. I am huge fan of later period lithics although mostly the pipe and pottery making traditions.  The Cahokia points are a wonder to behold and ceremonial items are the top pieces. The SECC stuff still blows me away.  I wonder how many languages changed in ten thousand years.... You would NOT want to run into one of these dudes in the woods. They were the masters of their universe. I love talking about this stuff. I am glad other members on here are as fascinated as I am with the early American "ancestors".



Yep, the Paleos are still my favorite types. I've always had an affinity for Daltons and all affiliated points like Hardaways, too. I'm amazed every time I look at some of those big Sloan and Olive Branch Daltons. I would give a right arm to be able to go back and sit and watch some of those Savannah River people work our local quartzite, though. They did some amazing stuff with a very un-userfriendly material.


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## Bow Only (Sep 8, 2014)

It has one straight side and one excurvate side.  I'm by no means a Dalton expert, but is that common for a Dalton?


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 8, 2014)

Bow Only said:


> It has one straight side and one excurvate side.  I'm by no means a Dalton expert, but is that common for a Dalton?



I think variation is common in all point types. Here is a group of authenticated Dalton drills from the same Dalton site locality. Notice that no two are exactly alike, and notice that some of those are quite raggedy and unground/unfinished looking:


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## Bow Only (Sep 8, 2014)

NCHillbilly said:


> I think variation is common in all point types. Here is a group of authenticated Dalton drills from the same Dalton site locality. Notice that no two are exactly alike, and notice that some of those are quite raggedy and unground/unfinished looking:


Great examples!  They make me think my original opinion is accurate.


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 8, 2014)

Hard to say one way or the other for sure on that one. I sure wouldn't say it couldn't possibly be a later type, but I certainly wouldn't rule out it being a Hardaway-Dalton base, either. A lot of their points were nowhere near as refined as the classic Daltons. Some are really well-made, and look almost like classic Daltons, but many of them are pretty rough-looking, too. It's a cool find, whatever it is.


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## florida boy (Sep 8, 2014)

NCHillbilly said:


> It looks very,  very, very Dalton, just not very finished-like a Dalton before grinding. Maybe a quickie drill made from a Dalton that broke during manufacture? I also doubt if they had point inspectors that came around and made sure that every individual point produced by thousands of individual knappers over a couple thousand years matched exactly to the official textbook standard for the convenience of future archaologists and point collectors. ("Did you hear about poor old Torgu?  He got kicked out of the tribe because he didn't grind all his drill bases. When somebody finds one of 'em ten thousand years from now, they'll argue on the internet what type it was, and it'll just look bad on our culture as a whole.")  I've seen quite a few Hardaway/Dalton points made from tough material that were pretty crude looking.



I totally agree......but it is like arguing religion or politics


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