# Wow - kayaks sure have become popular!



## Hoot (Apr 30, 2016)

Put on at Rope Mill today, on my SUP, to paddle down to Toonigh Creek Falls.  Saw a ton of kayaks going there.  Saw more tons going back up.  Flotillas.  I'm talking dozens of boats. 

Apparently, the secret(s) is (are) out.  Kayaks are fun.  SUPs are even more fun.  Oh, and my hidden secret (the only falls on the 'Toona) is something that apparently everyone knows about now.  As a kid, I used to ski up to those falls, then jump off of the "cliffs" next to them (merely tall rocks, with a very shallow landing, which is why this fat ol' man did not jump off of said rocks).  I don't much cotton to broken ankles, but the young kids there sure did have their fun.

Also, Rope Mill used to be an extremely cool place, back before it became a city park and everyone knew about it.  Back when you could go there and explore the old ruins, and walk across the old dam (which is now forever gone, thanks to the '09 floods).  It's a nice park now, but like Kennesaw Mountain, it is being "loved to death".  The place was absolutely jam-packed today.  Too bad the outskirts of metro Atlanta has become absolutely flooded with peeps.


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## Anvil Head (May 1, 2016)

Yeah, used to be a good place to squirrel hunt and catch the spring crappie run. I still remember the thrill of driving my old '51 DeSoto across the old iron bridge. Got more exciting every year until they closed it. Last time I crossed it, we (brother and I) had to leapfrog planks to get across in a little old Ford Falcon. Good times back then.


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## T-N-T (May 1, 2016)

Kayaks are in every other suv comercial.  If you pay attention to your TV, they are showing up everywhere.  Every bug box sporting goods store has a section that seems to be growing by the month.

I guess it's better to be on the water with 2 dozen other kayaks than 2 dozen 18ft bass boats.


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## pesce (May 1, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> it's better to be on the water with 2 dozen other kayaks than 2 dozen 18ft bass boats.



That right there. Any day of the week. 

Also, read an article this week that metro Atlanta will expand it's population by anther 2.5 million. So if you want some solitude, you'll need to head even farther out of the city.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 1, 2016)

Hoot said:


> Put on at Rope Mill today, on my SUP, to paddle down to Toonigh Creek Falls.  Saw a ton of kayaks going there.  Saw more tons going back up.  Flotillas.  I'm talking dozens of boats.
> 
> Apparently, the secret(s) is (are) out.  Kayaks are fun.  SUPs are even more fun.  Oh, and my hidden secret (the only falls on the 'Toona) is something that apparently everyone knows about now.  As a kid, I used to ski up to those falls, then jump off of the "cliffs" next to them (merely tall rocks, with a very shallow landing, which is why this fat ol' man did not jump off of said rocks).  I don't much cotton to broken ankles, but the young kids there sure did have their fun.
> 
> Also, Rope Mill used to be an extremely cool place, back before it became a city park and everyone knew about it.  Back when you could go there and explore the old ruins, and walk across the old dam (which is now forever gone, thanks to the '09 floods).  It's a nice park now, but like Kennesaw Mountain, it is being "loved to death".  The place was absolutely jam-packed today.  Too bad the outskirts of metro Atlanta has become absolutely flooded with peeps.



I'm not advocating for more government but a "paddler's license" system is sounding better and better every day.  It wouldn't cost that much (20ish bucks) but boy would it raise some money to help keep the rivers clean and it might keep some of the unwanted *ahem* riff raff out.


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## OwlRNothing (May 2, 2016)

hey, maybe we can get the government to license individual paddle blades, too. You know, for a good cause like pollution or donuts for hippies.


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> I'm not advocating for more government but a *"paddler's license" system is sounding better and better every day.*  It wouldn't cost that much (20ish bucks) but boy would it raise some money to help keep the rivers clean and it might keep some of the unwanted *ahem* riff raff out.


No Thanks


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

OwlRNothing said:


> hey, maybe we can get the government to license individual paddle blades, too. You know, for a good cause like pollution or donuts for hippies.



Hey, yea, because that's exactly what i was talking about.  It's kinda like how those pesky hunting and fishing license go to pay for "hippie stuff" like the DNR planting food plots, putting in boat ramps, or stocking fish.  That gosh dern gov'ment.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> No Thanks



Any reason why not?  I hate it but something is gonna have to be done.  I float a lot of rivers around Atlanta and they are exponentially getting more crowded and more trashed.


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## Anvil Head (May 2, 2016)

Remove the pavement, park benches, toilets, and hiking trails and you'll cut the yak crowd by 2/3rds as well as the "public pollution" - Enforcement of existing laws and ordinances would take care of our waterways instead of greasing the palms of the corrupt with more money. We're already paying enough, but you are welcome to double up if you want to.


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> Any reason why not?  I hate it but something is gonna have to be done.  I float a lot of rivers around Atlanta and they are exponentially getting more crowded and more trashed.


I dont live close to the  Atlanta metro  and dont care about fishing anywhere near it or even going anywhere close to it so you dont have to worry about me intruding into your area.Why should i have to pay?My area is not overrun with people. *Seems like the Atlanta metro uses up most of the states resources so maybe they can require a paddlers license for the Atlanta metro area*. There's plenty of places in the state that are not overcrowded or overrun with people you just chose to live and fish in a place that  is,so dont punish those of us who dont.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

Anvil Head said:


> Remove the pavement, park benches, toilets, and hiking trails and you'll cut the yak crowd by 2/3rds as well as the "public pollution" - Enforcement of existing laws and ordinances would take care of our waterways instead of greasing the palms of the corrupt with more money. We're already paying enough, but you are welcome to double up if you want to.



I don't WANT to pay anything.  In fact, I'd like to not pay a dime for anything but I'm just saying something has to be done. Enforcement of existing laws and ordinances cost $.  Yes, we pay enough but I'm talking about a system similar to our hunting and fishing licenses and the money goes right back into the waterway you are paddling.  Probably a pipe dream but just a suggestion.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> I dont live close to the  Atlanta metro  and dont care about fishing anywhere near it or even going anywhere close to it so you dont have to worry about me intruding into your area.Why should i have to pay?My area is not overrun with people. *Seems like the Atlanta metro uses up most of the states resources so maybe they can require a paddlers license for the Atlanta metro area*. There's plenty of places in the state that are not overcrowded or overrun with people you just chose to live and fish in a place that  is,so dont punish those of us who dont.



Is it hard fishing from up there on that high horse of yours?


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> I don't WANT to pay anything.  In fact, I'd like to not pay a dime for anything but I'm just saying something has to be done. Enforcement of existing laws and ordinances cost $.  Yes, we pay enough but I'm talking about a system like our hunting and fishing licenses where the money goes right back into the waterway you are paddling.



What if i only fish or paddle a private pond or lake?Do i still have to buy a $20.00 paddlers license.If I fish my own private pond I dont have to have a fishing license but you want me to by a $ 20.00 paddlers license?


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> Is it hard fishing from up there on that high horse of yours?



It has nothing to do with high horses it has everything to do with choices.If you choose to fish in a area with a million plus people than thats something YOU have to deal with but dont be trying to make me pay extra taxes because of it!!!


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> What if i only fish or paddle a private pond or lake?Do i still have to buy a $20.00 paddlers license.If I fish my own private pond I dont have to have a fishing license but you want me to by a $ 20.00 paddlers license?



Well, seeing how I haven't written out any details to present to congress yet and was just making a suggestion, I'm not sure how it would work.  I'd imagine it would be probably be separated out by watershed so that you are only paying for what you use.  I just threw $20 out there.  And nobody said anything about raises your taxes.  

The patronizing tone isn't necessary by the way.  We are all on the same side here.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> It has nothing to do with high horses it has everything to do with choices.If you choose to fish in a area with a million plus people than thats something YOU have to deal with but dont be trying to make me pay extra taxes because of it!!!



And no it's not about ME.  It's about the health of our state's waterways.  I'm glad you live in a great place of Georgia where nobody litters or overcrowds the rivers but what happens upstream will affect the whole watershed so it's a problem for everyone not just me.


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## soccerdad (May 2, 2016)

I think the issue TRG, or at least a key issue, is that gov, in the form of both politicians and bureaucrats, will tell you one thing and do another. So they may say that your rivers and streams will be cleaner if everyone throws in a few dollars, bit it simply will not happen.

It is a very delicate balancing act .. Georgia has some of the most wonderful aquatic resources of all the 50 states .. and we SHOULD allow the citizens access and participation. No doubt. I want better access for both you and I.  But people are pigs .. they will mess their own space in a heartbeat.

Neither money nor government will change that IMHO.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

soccerdad said:


> I think the issue TRG, or at least a key issue, is that gov, in the form of both politicians and bureaucrats, will tell you one thing and do another. So they may say that your rivers and streams will be cleaner if everyone throws in a few dollars, bit it simply will not happen.
> 
> It is a very delicate balancing act .. Georgia has some of the most wonderful aquatic resources of all the 50 states .. and we SHOULD allow the citizens access and participation. No doubt. I want better access for both you and I.  But people are pigs .. they will mess their own space in a heartbeat.
> 
> Neither money nor government will change that IMHO.



I can definitely see where you're coming from and I agree with that mosly.  The only possible exception in my opinion, are fish and wildlife agencies, i.e. the Georgia DNR.  They aren't perfect but are generally run by lovers of hunting and fishing.  Our hunting and fishing license $ goes to their budget for management and conservation.  There's laws against using it for anything but.  It doesn't go to the treasury like other "taxes."  Sure, there may be some funny business but it's much better than other parts of our government.

As an example,this state once had an extremely low population of deer and turkey.  Now, its great for both.  How did we fix it?  Money, government, and licensing systems.


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## j_seph (May 2, 2016)

pesce said:


> That right there. Any day of the week.
> 
> Also, read an article this week that metro Atlanta will expand it's population by anther 2.5 million. So if you want some solitude, you'll need to head even farther out of the city.





fish hawk said:


> I dont live close to the  Atlanta metro  and dont care about fishing anywhere near it or even going anywhere close to it so you dont have to worry about me intruding into your area.Why should i have to pay?My area is not overrun with people. *Seems like the Atlanta metro uses up most of the states resources so maybe they can require a paddlers license for the Atlanta metro area*. There's plenty of places in the state that are not overcrowded or overrun with people you just chose to live and fish in a place that  is,so dont punish those of us who dont.




Read pesce post, they coming to a river near you soon. Lula Bridge area is now getting ate up by kayaks as well


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

j_seph said:


> Read pesce post, they coming to a river near you soon. Lula Bridge area is now getting ate up by kayaks as well



I did read it and as stated before I don't live in the Atlanta metro area.Why tax kayakers? If your gonna do that just raise the cost of a fishing lisense to $30.00 that way everyone can share and charge non fisherman a $ 30.00 fee just to use the river


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## lonesome dove (May 2, 2016)

It cost $5 to park at Buford Dam. Another $3 to park at Settles Bridge. Honestly - I've been on the Chattahoochee since the 70's. There isn't that much more trash in that stretch now than there was then. I think there is less. 

I disagree with being forced to pay a tax to help clean up after others


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## T-N-T (May 2, 2016)

Most the trash has nothing to do with the guys in boats.
It has to so with the idiots throwing stuff out the window as they drive.  And throwing trash as they walk.
Stuff runs down hill.

As for crowded waterways, everyone has a right to get outdoors.  It is America .


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## j_seph (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> I did read it and as stated before I don't live in the Atlanta metro area.Why tax kayakers? If your gonna do that just raise the cost of a fishing lisense to $30.00 that way everyone can share and charge non fisherman a $ 30.00 fee just to use the river


I must buy a tax for my boat trailer, register it as well. Why not?


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## Miguel Cervantes (May 2, 2016)

Anvil Head said:


> Remove the pavement, park benches, toilets, and hiking trails and you'll cut the yak crowd by 2/3rds as well as the "public pollution" - Enforcement of existing laws and ordinances would take care of our waterways instead of greasing the palms of the corrupt with more money. We're already paying enough, but you are welcome to double up if you want to.



^^^This^^^


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

fish hawk said:


> If your gonna do that just raise the cost of a fishing lisense to $30.00 that way everyone can share and charge non fisherman a $ 30.00 fee just to use the river



How is that different than what I suggested?


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

TopherAndTick said:


> Most the trash has nothing to do with the guys in boats.
> It has to so with the idiots throwing stuff out the window as they drive.  And throwing trash as they walk.
> Stuff runs down hill.
> 
> As for crowded waterways, everyone has a right to get outdoors.  It is America .



I've literally seen trails of trash behind groups of kayakers on several different rivers.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 2, 2016)

lonesome dove said:


> It cost $5 to park at Buford Dam. Another $3 to park at Settles Bridge. Honestly - I've been on the Chattahoochee since the 70's. There isn't that much more trash in that stretch now than there was then. I think there is less.
> 
> I disagree with being forced to pay a tax to help clean up after others



Fair enough, but do you consider a fishing license tax?


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## ripplerider (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> I've literally seen trails of trash behind groups of kayakers on several different rivers.



Me too. Usually frat boy types. If we all set an example, bring a trash bag and fill it up, maybe it will shame some of these litterers. Ive had em tell me "well its just gonna sink". Not if they dont fill it with water first, they usually wash ashore. Sinking its not the answer either you should bring back all the trash you packed.


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## T-N-T (May 2, 2016)

Well, if you see a guy litter just tell them they are scum of the earth and their mommas heart would cry if she saw the piece of crap they grew up to be.  Then pick it up in front of them.
Other than that, you are not going to stop litter.  With a liscense to paddle or anything else.


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## ripplerider (May 2, 2016)

What kills me are these people who ride around with their Wal-mart kayaks strapped to their roof ALL the time not just when theyre going to the lake or river. Theyres a couple like that in my area that seem like theyre just proclaiming that theyre kayakers. I feel like pulling up next to them and asking if they know what continious exposure to the sun does to plastic but they can find out for themselves.


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## elfiii (May 2, 2016)

lonesome dove said:


> It cost $5 to park at Buford Dam. Another $3 to park at Settles Bridge. Honestly - I've been on the Chattahoochee since the 70's. There isn't that much more trash in that stretch now than there was then. I think there is less.
> 
> I disagree with being forced to pay a tax to help clean up after others



Yep. Settles Bridge to McGinnis Ferry is almost clean as a whistle and most times I'm all alone when I fish that stretch.


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## fish hawk (May 2, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> How is that different than what I suggested?



Because everyone can share in the cost not just someone paddling a kayak


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## fish hawk (May 3, 2016)

elfiii said:


> Yep. Settles Bridge to McGinnis Ferry is almost clean as a whistle and most times I'm all alone when I fish that stretch.


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## lonesome dove (May 3, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> Fair enough, but do you consider a fishing license tax?



it is a form of a tax. And I can be ticketed if I don't have one. I may not agree that I need one, but that's the law. 

If you are all for additional taxes to clean up the rivers - why don't you just donate your money or time and clean them yourself?

Every river or lake that I paddle - we try to pick up any trash we see. 

I remember breaking a bottle when I was little and my Grandpa got on to me. He said that glass NEVER goes away. My grandchildren may cut themselves on a bottle I broke when I was 7. 

I think your heart is in the right place. I just need for you to keep your hand out of my wallet


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## soccerdad (May 3, 2016)

ripplerider said:


> What kills me are these people who ride around with their Wal-mart kayaks strapped to their roof ALL the time not just when theyre going to the lake or river. Theyres a couple like that in my area that seem like theyre just proclaiming that theyre kayakers. I feel like pulling up next to them and asking if they know what continious exposure to the sun does to plastic but they can find out for themselves.



This made me laugh. No offense RR, but it almost seems like folks are proposing a Home Owners Association for kayak owners.  No boats under $500 retail. No boats atop your car for more than one hour after leaving the water nor for more than one hour prior to entering the water. No kayak unless you can garage it. 

From May to September my kayak spends more time atop the car than it does in the backyard (I confess - no garage) .. it fishes every other day and it makes no sense to schlep it around when unnecessary. What others do with their boats is clearly none of my business - and probably not anyone else's either.


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## Randy (May 3, 2016)

Kayak fishing is the fastest growing segment of the fishing industry.  And it is pushing the recreational kayaking industry as well.  I have been doing this nearly 18 years now and I never dreamed the sport I have such a passion for would grow so fast.  A couple years ago the Predator Kayak that I helped design won both "Boat of the year" and "Best Of Show" at ICAST.  The largest fishing related show in the world.  That's when it hit me that kayaks are mainstream.


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## TheRiverGiveth (May 3, 2016)

lonesome dove said:


> it is a form of a tax. And I can be ticketed if I don't have one. I may not agree that I need one, but that's the law.
> 
> If you are all for additional taxes to clean up the rivers - why don't you just donate your money or time and clean them yourself?
> 
> ...



I can definitely understand not wanting to pay more to the gov't, they've squandered enough already.  But next time you find yourself at a boat ramp, deer hunting, or catching a stocked trout, you might want to rethink not agreeing that you need to pay for a license.

I've spent a lot of time cleaning up after folks and have contributed $ so although it's not enough, I have done something.  

Having our hearts in the right place isn't going to get anywhere, we need to get our brains in the right place. There are just going to be more and more people on the water.


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## Gold Ranger (May 4, 2016)

This is just my 4th year kayaking, and I can tell a huge difference in just these past 4 years.


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## ripplerider (May 9, 2016)

soccerdad said:


> This made me laugh. No offense RR, but it almost seems like folks are proposing a Home Owners Association for kayak owners.  No boats under $500 retail. No boats atop your car for more than one hour after leaving the water nor for more than one hour prior to entering the water. No kayak unless you can garage it.
> 
> From May to September my kayak spends more time atop the car than it does in the backyard (I confess - no garage) .. it fishes every other day and it makes no sense to schlep it around when unnecessary. What others do with their boats is clearly none of my business - and probably not anyone else's either.



If youre going fishing, or just paddling,  every couple of days I understand perfectly. But I happen to know one of these families and they rarely use their kayaks. Its more a conversation- starter (look at me- I paddle!) or status symbol thing with them. I didnt mean to sound like a snob. Theres nothing wrong with a Wal-Mart kayak whatever, you can have a great time with one. However theres a reason they're cheap and unnecessary exposure to the sun will degrade plastic that much quicker. Having bought and sold quite a few kayaks I know the first thing a knowledgeable buyer does is flip it over take his foot and press down on the bottom to check for "oil-canning"; a kayak that deforms easily to foot pressure is not worth as much as one that doesnt and prolonged exposure to the sun upside down is the main culprit for this. You're right, it's none of my business.


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## pesce (May 16, 2016)

Wow, this turned into an interesting debate. I kinda figure that I'll just take that (proposed) $20 and buy some trash bags now, 'cause from the looks of what I saw at Dick's SG today, it's about to get crowded on the water. There were literally hundreds of plastic boats stacked like firewood there today.


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## OwlRNothing (May 17, 2016)

I never can understand fishermen upset about other people fishing. I guess everyone needs an excuse to gripe about something these days. PS - I've seen more "bank trash" from people sitting on buckets than I've ever seen from kayak anglers. (Note: ANGLERS). 
kayakers have the same right to be on the water as anyone else. If you don't like them being in your way, my suggestion is that you find some way to get away from all the other people. 


You know what's good for that? 

A kayak.


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## fish hawk (May 17, 2016)

This^^^^^


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## pesce (May 17, 2016)

Didn't notice anyone in this thread complaining about other kayakers fishing. They complained about nearly everything else, but not other kayakers fishing. And if you're looking at my last post thinking I don't like kayaks on the water, maybe squint a little and look closer at my avatar and notice the plastic boat behind that behemoth of a fish. That's one of my fleet of 3 kayaks that sees water as often as possible. All I'm saying is that more people = more trash, so I pick it up. Every time I'm on the water, I come back with trash I've picked up somewhere. Also, wow was that a lot of kayaks at DSG. I've never seen so many in one place. This sport is really heating up.


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## silverrubicon (May 17, 2016)

Fishing from a kayak is fun.  Fishing from a paddle board is fantastic.  If you want to stay ahead of the curve, get a paddle board. 

If it's crowded now it will only get worse with the paddle board explosion.  Water sports in Georgia and specifically the Atlanta area are on the rise.  With that comes the good and the bad.  I wouldn't be against a watercraft license to keep the water clean.  Although when I first read this thread that was far from my initial thought.  It does make sense in the grand scheme of things.


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## obligated (May 18, 2016)

TheRiverGiveth said:


> Any reason why not?  I hate it but something is gonna have to be done.  I float a lot of rivers around Atlanta and they are exponentially getting more crowded and more trashed.



Fine the polluters and cut politicians pay to fund it.Government is a parasite now.You squeeze parasites till they pop.Not feed them.We have a bunch of idiots with positions of power wasting money on THEIR donors and pet projects.Time for them to tighten their belts and budget.


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## elfiii (May 24, 2016)

pesce said:


> Didn't notice anyone in this thread complaining about other kayakers fishing.



You're right. If there's a complaint it's about the "plain" yakers that just paddle and supposedly trash the waterways.

Personally I haven't noticed any yakers dumping trash in the water. It's the float tubers and rafters that do that. If you want to charge somebody some money charge the guilty parties. That still isn't going to make the lakes and rivers any cleaner.


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