# Atheists and ghosts?



## dirtnap (Sep 27, 2019)

Just out of a personal curiosity, where do most atheists stand on ghosts or paranormal activities in general?


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## Turpentine (Sep 28, 2019)

Watching this thread


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## Bobby Linton (Sep 28, 2019)

In the absence of evidence I do not perceive things that are unexplained to be somehow supernatural.  I'm ok with just saying I don't understand.  I would think that most atheists see organized religion as another form of "ghost and paranormal activity" aka an attempt to explain our own observations and existence without a complete understanding of the underlying reality at play.  I'm not saying atheists have a complete understanding of reality, they just don't try and explain it via supernatural means.


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## WaltL1 (Sep 28, 2019)

Technically, Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of deities.
Ghosts/goblins/Santa Claus etc etc are not deities so I would think technically an Atheist could believe anything else exists, other than deities.
But, I would guess most Atheist would apply the same thought process - need proof/preponderance of evidence.
Would probably be interesting though to hear how an Atheist could reject deities but yet accept ghosts etc.


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## bullethead (Sep 28, 2019)

I am far more of a skeptic than anything and because of it I get labeled an Atheist.
I cannot grasp a Heaven/H3ll thing and Ghosts or Spirits who operate outside of either. So it is another reason why I do not believe in religious tales of what happens after death. That being said, I think there is more of a possibility of having Time waves overlap and create a scenario where two different times are happening in the same space which creates what seems as abnormal activity. And again, the Skeptic in me has a hard time giving credit to a ghost, spirit, or entity even though I have experienced things that I just cannot explain.
Einstein's Special Relativity is fascinating but way over my head.


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## WaltL1 (Sep 28, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I am far more of a skeptic than anything and because of it I get labeled an Atheist.
> I cannot grasp a Heaven/H3ll thing and Ghosts or Spirits who operate outside of either. So it is another reason why I do not believe in religious tales of what happens after death. That being said, I think there is more of a possibility of having Time waves overlap and create a scenario where two different times are happening in the same space which creates what seems as abnormal activity. And again, the Skeptic in me has a hard time giving credit to a ghost, spirit, or entity even though I have experienced things that I just cannot explain.
> Einstein's Special Relativity is fascinating but way over my head.





> I think there is more of a possibility of having Time waves overlap and create a scenario where two different times are happening in the same space which creates what seems as abnormal activity.


That's a really interesting subject. But every time I try to read about it my eyes glaze over and my mind wanders off to hunting, fishing or womens 
And considering there are several Star Trek episodes about it we know its a legitimate possibility.


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## ambush80 (Sep 28, 2019)

I'm intrigued by the Paranormal which is one of the reasons that I find religious belief so interesting.  I classify miracle claims are paranormal.  That's why I ask believers "What did God's voice sound like?" so often.  I want the details of a paranormal experience; I want to know what the ghost was wearing and what it smelled like if it had any odor.

I'm compelled by the explanations of ghosts that refer to "wrinkles in time" as Bullet suggested,  or "recording of events" in the substrate of the material world, like grooves on a record.

My neighbor and friend believes in ghosts (though I think I may have started swaying him away from it).  He has a EVP app on his phone.  I aksed him how it woks.  He didn't know and up until that time he didn't care.  He's a church planter.  I only mention that because I have observed him to be _very_ selectively skeptical .  He doesn't trust the govt. and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories, particularly around 911, yet he hadn't researched explanations that contradicted his beliefs.  We sat around on his couch one night and watched videos about 911.  I told him to find ones that were the most compelling to him and we watched them.  I then asked him to find a video that contradicted the last one.  We were streaming Youtube to his TV.  There were no contrary videos in his algorithm, only ones that reinforced his ideas.  People say that this echo chamber phenomenon is new but it's not really.  Going to church and hanging out with believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.


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## bullethead (Sep 28, 2019)

The various Ghost Hunters on tv  crack me up. Early on the shows were pretty boring but also genuine. They would be locked up over night or investigating for a few hours and other than grunt or a groan captured on a  small recorder or an "orb" that zoomed by there wasn't much action.
Now, I guess since the competition increased from more ghost hunters wanting in on the action and equipment evolved they suddenly all have conversations,  flying objects, they feel emotional swings, sickness,  banging, shadow figures, evil entities and on and on and on. It actually got more Unbelievable to me.


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## ambush80 (Sep 28, 2019)

bullethead said:


> The various Ghost Hunters on tv  crack me up. Early on the shows were pretty boring but also genuine. They would be locked up over night or investigating for a few hours and other than grunt or a groan captured on a  small recorder or an "orb" that zoomed by there wasn't much action.
> Now, I guess since the competition increased from more ghost hunters wanting in on the action and equipment evolved they suddenly all have conversations,  flying objects, they feel emotional swings, sickness,  banging, shadow figures, evil entities and on and on and on. It actually got more Unbelievable to me.



I can believe that people feel hot, cold, nauseous, at peace, terrified, etc. when they feel like they're in the presence of a supernatural force.  Why does society have a tendency to discount people who say they felt a ghost grab them by the soul but unconditionally accept someone saying they felt that God pricked them in the heart?


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## 4HAND (Sep 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I'm intrigued by the Paranormal which is one of the reasons that I find religious belief so interesting.  I classify miracle claims are paranormal.  That's why I ask believers "What did God's voice sound like?" so often.  I want the details of a paranormal experience; I want to know what the ghost was wearing and what it smelled like if it had any odor.
> 
> I'm compelled by the explanations of ghosts that refer to "wrinkles in time" as Bullet suggested,  or "recording of events" in the substrate of the material world, like grooves on a record.
> 
> My neighbor and friend believes in ghosts (though I think I may have started swaying him away from it).  He has a EVP app on his phone.  I aksed him how it woks.  He didn't know and up until that time he didn't care.  He's a church planter.  I only mention that because I have observed him to be _very_ selectively skeptical .  He doesn't trust the govt. and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories, particularly around 911, yet he hadn't researched explanations that contradicted his beliefs.  We sat around on his couch one night and watched videos about 911.  I told him to find ones that were the most compelling to him and we watched them.  I then asked him to find a video that contradicted the last one.  We were streaming Youtube to his TV.  There were no contrary videos in his algorithm, only ones that reinforced his ideas.  People say that this echo chamber phenomenon is new but it's not really.  Going to church and hanging out with believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.


What's a church planter? I've never heard that phrase before.


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## bullethead (Sep 28, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I can believe that people feel hot, cold, nauseous, at peace, terrified, etc. when they feel like they're in the presence of a supernatural force.  Why does society have a tendency to discount people who say they felt a ghost grab them by the soul but unconditionally accept someone saying they felt that God pricked them in the heart?


Yes, energy is in us and all around us in many forms so I can see how people's senses may be effected.
My point above was the increase in activity as competition arose, almost to up the ante in order to constantly give the viewers something to tune in to.

To your point, believers in one diety have no problem telling others who have different beliefs how nonsensical they are so it is no surprise they can also dismiss the same feelings that they claim to have.
How do the religious deal with a ghost sighting when that dead person, especially a loved one, should be somewhere else?


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 28, 2019)

I know the question was asked of Atheist but wanted to note that many Christians don't believe in ghost as well. They think that all ghost are either in Heaven or He!!. Then some believe that Satan has no army of ghost or spirits. I don't think or have I ever felt the presence of a ghost other than the Spirit of God. I guess a spirit could be different from a ghost.


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## dirtnap (Sep 29, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> I know the question was asked of Atheist but wanted to note that many Christians don't believe in ghost as well. They think that all ghost are either in Heaven or He!!. Then some believe that Satan has no army of ghost or spirits. I don't think or have I ever felt the presence of a ghost other than the Spirit of God. I guess a spirit could be different from a ghost.


I don’t believe in “ghosts” per say, but I do believe there’s demons and angels all around us. To what degree they can physically manifest, I don’t know. But as far as little Susan looking for her head that got cut off, no, I dont believe in that. I believe the ghost hunters you see are just like the Bigfoot you see, little crazy


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## WaltL1 (Sep 29, 2019)

4HAND said:


> What's a church planter? I've never heard that phrase before.


Me either.
Short answer =
*Answer: * Church planting is the establishing of an organized body of believers in a new location. The process of church planting involves evangelism, the discipleship of new believers, the training of church leaders, and the organization of the church according to the New Testament model. Usually the process also includes writing a church charter and/or doctrinal statement and finding a place to meet or buying property and erecting a new building. 
More detail =
https://www.gotquestions.org/church-planting.html


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## WaltL1 (Sep 29, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> I don’t believe in “ghosts” per say, but I do believe there’s demons and angels all around us. To what degree they can physically manifest, I don’t know. But as far as little Susan looking for her head that got cut off, no, I dont believe in that. I believe the ghost hunters you see are just like the Bigfoot you see, little crazy





> but I do believe there’s demons and angels all around us.


Is that your belief because of religious reasons or other?


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## oldfella1962 (Sep 29, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I can believe that people feel hot, cold, nauseous, at peace, terrified, etc. when they feel like they're in the presence of a supernatural force.  Why does society have a tendency to discount people who say they felt a ghost grab them by the soul but unconditionally accept someone saying they felt that God pricked them in the heart?



indeed!  "In for a penny, in for a pound" as the saying goes. Either there is a spiritual world that occasionally interacts with us or there isn't.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 29, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> I don’t believe in “ghosts” per say, but I do believe there’s demons and angels all around us. To what degree they can physically manifest, I don’t know. But as far as little Susan looking for her head that got cut off, no, I dont believe in that. I believe the ghost hunters you see are just like the Bigfoot you see, little crazy


We are watching Psychic Kids on A&E. Kind of makes you think about demons and angels vs ghost. Interesting concept difference. Most of the kids encounter human ghost, but just now one has encountered a non-human spirit or demon.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 29, 2019)

Some Atheist believe in Ghost but not demons. So in that belief, a human who dies does still exist but only as a ghost or spirit but demons are associated with the devil or religion.


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## dirtnap (Sep 29, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Is that your belief because of religious reasons or other?


I’m a believer. I believe just like there was instances of demon possession in Jesus’s day, there still is today


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 29, 2019)

I can remember when the Holy Ghost became the Holy Spirit. Meaning God's third persona is his spirit, not the ghost of a dead person.
Which makes me wonder if the man part of Jesus had a ghost when he physically died. Then did that ghost re-inter his body at resurrection?

Off topic, but maybe related to the various beliefs.


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## Artfuldodger (Sep 29, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> I’m a believer. I believe just like there was instances of demon possession in Jesus’s day, there still is today



Do you believe angels are present on the earth? My sister who is Christian doesn't. She doesn't believe in anything pertaining to ghost, spirits, or angels on the earth except God and Satan. Maybe all paranormal activity ended at Cross or at the Pentecost or something.


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## dirtnap (Sep 29, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> Do you believe angels are present on the earth? My sister who is Christian doesn't. She doesn't believe in anything pertaining to ghost, spirits, or angels on the earth except God and Satan. Maybe all paranormal activity ended at Cross or at the Pentecost or something.


I do believe angels are present, but like I said earlier, how much they have the ability to be in the physical realm, i don’t know


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## WaltL1 (Sep 29, 2019)

Artfuldodger said:


> I can remember when the Holy Ghost became the Holy Spirit. Meaning God's third persona is his spirit, not the ghost of a dead person.
> Which makes me wonder if the man part of Jesus had a ghost when he physically died. Then did that ghost re-inter his body at resurrection?
> 
> Off topic, but maybe related to the various beliefs.





> the Holy Ghost became the Holy Spirit.


Found this. (no clue if its completely accurate or not)
https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-Ghost.html


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## NCHillbilly (Sep 29, 2019)

I am not a practicing Christian, but I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, I have absolutely no belief in ghosts, demons, angels, or deities as described in the literature in most mainstream organized religions. I do believe there is likely some kind of higher power/energy out there that can be felt at times, but I doubt if it's understandable. Spirits of some sort may be possible, I don't know, but I have never seen any reason to believe they do. There are many things that we don't understand.


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## Bobby Linton (Sep 29, 2019)

If an ant tried it's best to understand a human, I can only imagine we would appear to be supernatural. I will continue with the assumption that my inability to explain an experience or observation is in no way proof of the supernatural. Our minds may be too limited to ever fully comprehend the true nature of reality.  For example mathematics proves there is no limit to theoretical dimensions in space.  You dont have to stop at three, you can have a fourth dimension and fifth and so on.  This isn't just theoretical, multiple dimensions are used to make real world calculations now, but our brain has no compasity to visualize an object with more than three dimensions.  Its literally beyond the limits of our understanding.  Still doesn't mean additional dimensions aren't real or that they are supernatural.


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## ambush80 (Sep 30, 2019)

Bobby Linton said:


> If an ant tried it's best to understand a human, I can only imagine we would appear to be supernatural. I will continue with the assumption that my inability to explain an experience or observation is in no way proof of the supernatural. Our minds may be too limited to ever fully comprehend the true nature of reality.  For example mathematics proves there is no limit to theoretical dimensions in space.  You dont have to stop at three, you can have a fourth dimension and fifth and so on.  This isn't just theoretical, multiple dimensions are used to make real world calculations now, but our brain has no compasity to visualize an object with more than three dimensions.  Its literally beyond the limits of our understanding.  Still doesn't mean additional dimensions aren't real or that they are supernatural.



I'm guessing an ant is incapable of that kind of analysis but I get what you're saying.  I imagine one day it might be possible to "dial down " our consciousness to the level of any animal we like.  We would just "turn off" all the functions that are specific to us.  That might be interesting to know what it feels like to operate only on instinct.  I wonder how good our memory would be of that experience.  It might only remain as a weird feeling.

I sometimes wonder if the intellectual impulses that fuel ideas like God and the supernatural might be latent properties of our minds that developed when we were less complex organisms.  Maybe that's why most people's sense of the supernatural seem to be based on feelings.


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## 660griz (Oct 1, 2019)

No, I don't believe in ghosts. Growing up, I would hear tales of places that were haunted down around my neck of the woods. Probably similar stories everywhere. I would go there TRYING to see a ghost. Nothing.


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## j_seph (Oct 1, 2019)

Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.

Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 1, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I'm guessing an ant is incapable of that kind of analysis but I get what you're saying.  I imagine one day it might be possible to "dial down " our consciousness to the level of any animal we like.  We would just "turn off" all the functions that are specific to us.  That might be interesting to know what it feels like to operate only on instinct.  I wonder how good our memory would be of that experience.  It might only remain as a weird feeling.
> 
> I sometimes wonder if the intellectual impulses that fuel ideas like God and the supernatural might be latent properties of our minds that developed when we were less complex organisms.  Maybe that's why most people's sense of the supernatural seem to be based on feelings.


Have you ever read about the bicameral mind theory? Pretty interesting stuff, and it explins some things.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.
> 
> Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.


I'll go ahead and take that story as being 100% true.


> This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.


So the event is unexplained yet believers believe they know who/what god is responsible for the unexplainable event.
I have trouble buying that.


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## PopPop (Oct 1, 2019)

I believe I saw my Grandfathers Ghost, shortly after he committed suicide. I did not know at the time that he took his own life. It was a frightening experience for a 7 year old.
I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is. If proof is required as a precursor, so much would have never been learned. I have a scientific mind but am keenly aware, always observing as much as I can. I am just smart enough to know that I can not know what many claim with an absolute certainty.


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## j_seph (Oct 1, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I'll go ahead and take that story as being 100% true.
> 
> So the event is unexplained yet believers believe they know who/what god is responsible for the unexplainable event.
> I have trouble buying that.


Price was paid on Calvary, you don't have to buy anything. 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## bullethead (Oct 1, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.
> 
> Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.


I can understand unexplained. 
I wonder though,  are there rules for the spirits and ghosts? Do they break those rules?

I ask myself a lot, if I was a ghost/spirit and could "do" things in the non spirit realm, would I do cheap parlor tricks?
If I could make foot steps, why not tap out morse code so there is no doubt?
If I could move things, why not write out who I am on a foggy bathroom mirror or dusty shelf right there in front of witnesses so there is an explanation?
If human mediums can talk to the dead, why not as a dead person BE SPECIFIC ? If I can convey that I am a fatherly figure and my name begins with an M, or P or something....why not say ,Hey my name is "....." and tell my son/wife/whoever this "......."?
And if I am a Son and could sit on a swing and make that swing move in the exact same pattern as I did when alive, why wouldn't I go over 4 more feet and give Mom a hug that she could feel?


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## j_seph (Oct 1, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I can understand unexplained.
> I wonder though,  are there rules for the spirits and ghosts? Do they break those rules?
> 
> I ask myself a lot, if I was a ghost/spirit and could "do" things in the non spirit realm, would I do cheap parlor tricks?
> ...


I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.


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## bullethead (Oct 1, 2019)

j_seph said:


> I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.


True, and using that logic it could have been because of dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of different possibilities.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

PopPop said:


> I believe I saw my Grandfathers Ghost, shortly after he committed suicide. I did not know at the time that he took his own life. It was a frightening experience for a 7 year old.
> I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is. If proof is required as a precursor, so much would have never been learned. I have a scientific mind but am keenly aware, always observing as much as I can. I am just smart enough to know that I can not know what many claim with an absolute certainty.





> I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is.


That ^ makes sense to me. "We cant see what we don't want to see".
But I also think the flip side is undeniably accurate too -
"We see what we want to see".
I think, kind of in a nutshell, thats why AAs require "proof".
If we are denying it because we cant see it because that we dont want to.... the proof will expose that. If something is in fact "true"... it can be proven regardless if we cant see it or not.
If someone else is telling me that in fact it is true.... but they cant prove it..... odds just went way up that they are on the "We see what we want to see" side of the album.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Price was paid on Calvary, you don't have to buy anything.
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry j_seph, I'll take you word/their word on the unexplainable event, and I have no doubt it was exactly that - unexplainable.
I don't think the video addresses how one could logically know that a god and specifically their god or any god at all for that matter could be responsible for it.


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## PopPop (Oct 1, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> That ^ makes sense to me. "We cant see what we don't want to see".
> But I also think the flip side is undeniably accurate too -
> "We see what we want to see".
> I think, kind of in a nutshell, thats why AAs require "proof".
> ...



We do see what we want to see. That can also make it hard to see. My Sister lives in an enclave of upper middle class, successful people. She seldom ventures outside, except for vacation/ travel. She can not fathom how dysfunctional society is just minutes away from what she can see.
Again, I think disproving/proving “God” or ghost or angels is ambitious at the minimum.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

j_seph said:


> I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.


Could have been God, could have been a ghost that had nothing to do with God or any god, could have been a lost spirit that was taking a break could have been this could have been that could have been anything we want to imagine or believe.


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## ambush80 (Oct 1, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Have you ever read about the bicameral mind theory? Pretty interesting stuff, and it explins some things.



No.  I'll look into it.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 1, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> No.  I'll look into it.


Basically, there's a theory that humans haven't always thought like we do now, and that up until about 3,000 years ago, folks' brains were more split into two separately operating parts; and they heard voices in their heads telling them what to do, which they attributed to deities.


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## bullethead (Oct 1, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Basically, there's a theory that humans haven't always thought like we do now, and that up until about 3,000 years ago, folks' brains were more split into two separately operating parts; and they heard voices in their heads telling them what to do, which they attributed to deities.


Does it give any indication of what percentage of *people that have never evolved from that?

* this is a joke meant for entertainment purposes only. No people in here were thought of as examples and no one was harmed during the typing of this.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 1, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Basically, there's a theory that humans haven't always thought like we do now, and that up until about 3,000 years ago, folks' brains were more split into two separately operating parts; and they heard voices in their heads telling them what to do, which they attributed to deities.


They medicate you heavily for that now.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 1, 2019)

jollyroger said:


> You've never talked to yourself? Subconsciously or otherwise? I think there could be something to it, admittedly I've only read the wiki article on it.
> 
> I know you were being facetious, but it makes a good segue.
> 
> I like Graham Hancock's idea of consciousness arising from psychedelics. Hancock posits that primordial "man" developed consciousness through the accidental (at least at first) use of psychedelic substances. At some point we were able to disssociate our selves from the world around us. If we can do this for our selves, doesn't it stand to reason we could do this for the rest of the natural world? Could we not create an image of a god? Perhaps in our own image?


Of course I talk to myself... But I have never answered myself. Shut up! He wasn't talking to you!


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

jollyroger said:


> You've never talked to yourself? Subconsciously or otherwise? I think there could be something to it, admittedly I've only read the wiki article on it.
> 
> I know you were being facetious, but it makes a good segue.
> 
> I like Graham Hancock's idea of consciousness arising from psychedelics. Hancock posits that primordial "man" developed consciousness through the accidental (at least at first) use of psychedelic substances. At some point we were able to disssociate our selves from the world around us. If we can do this for our selves, doesn't it stand to reason we could do this for the rest of the natural world? Could we not create an image of a god? Perhaps in our own image?





> You've never talked to yourself? Subconsciously or otherwise? I think there could be something to it, admittedly I've only read the wiki article on it.


Not sure this is going to make sense but.....
I think, in a way, we talk to ourselves constantly. I see it as basically when we think (about anything) we are, in effect, "talking to ourselves".
When you talk to someone else we use our voice so they can hear us. But we already had a conversation/compared options, worked out in our head what it is thats going to come out of our mouth.
We "hear" our own thoughts but just in a different way than speaking them out loud.

And if that doesnt make a lick of sense Im blaming it on the psychedelic substances that I took as primordial man. Otherwise known as the '70s


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## WaltL1 (Oct 1, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Basically, there's a theory that humans haven't always thought like we do now, and that up until about 3,000 years ago, folks' brains were more split into two separately operating parts; and they heard voices in their heads telling them what to do, which they attributed to deities.


That theory strikes me as making a lot of sense.
I also think we still do it but often attribute it to other things and for some its deities.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 2, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> That theory strikes me as making a lot of sense.
> I also think we still do it but often attribute it to other things and for some its deities.


Unless it can be recorded, or heard by others, yeah... it's likely just in your head. If it is recorded, that makes it harder to deny.


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## 660griz (Oct 2, 2019)

jollyroger said:


> You've never talked to yourself? Subconsciously or otherwise? I think there could be something to it, admittedly I've only read the wiki article on it.


Talking to ones self and hearing 'voices', in my opinion, are not the same thing.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 2, 2019)

660griz said:


> Talking to ones self and hearing 'voices', in my opinion, are not the same thing.


I get the point you are making but I think they can be the same thing at times.
I often think about my grandfather. I "hear" his voice perfectly. I can even smell him. Garlic and sweat from him working in his garden.. Sounds gross but for me its the most comforting smell in the world.
He's not there. Its my brain producing the conversation, his voice, his smell, the whole shebang. Its me talking to me about how much I miss him etc.
I would imagine the vast majority of the "God talked to me" folks are doing the exact same thing. The difference is whether we recognize its us talking to us or not.


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## PopPop (Oct 2, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I get the point you are making but I think they can be the same thing at times.
> I often think about my grandfather. I "hear" his voice perfectly. I can even smell him. Garlic and sweat from him working in his garden.. Sounds gross but for me its the most comforting smell in the world.
> He's not there. Its my brain producing the conversation, his voice, his smell, the whole shebang. Its me talking to me about how much I miss him etc.
> I would imagine the vast majority of the "God talked to me" folks are doing the exact same thing. The difference is whether we recognize its us talking to us or not.



I can smell my grandfather too, viceroys and Aqua Velva, but it takes a conscious effort on my part.
But I can not prove that either.


----------



## WaltL1 (Oct 2, 2019)

PopPop said:


> I can smell my grandfather too, viceroys and Aqua Velva, but it takes a conscious effort on my part.
> But I can not prove that either.


I'm not sure which is worse - garlic and body odor or Viceroys and Aqua Velva


----------



## PopPop (Oct 2, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm not sure which is worse - garlic and body odor or Viceroys and Aqua Velva



They are fond memories yet not so clear anymore. It is was Old Spice and Viceroys. Not sure how I got that confused.


----------



## Dialer (Oct 2, 2019)

I’m NOT an Atheist, but have to say that I don’t understand. Spirits, scents, and sounds experienced along with a near death experience from an entity that matched the description of a lady that committed suicide in our home in early 70’s.  My mother was nearly suffocated by the entity the night before we left the house.  A personal investigation proved a lady had killed herself in the north bathroom in July of 1961. When we moved in, that bathroom was neatly boarded up, and we were warned not to open it up. We did open it, and thats when entities began appearing from all eras. 
   I was told by Georgia Haunt Hunt team that this was a simple case of opening a “portal” to the dead. Wandering spirits could come and go thru this portal since it had been disturbed and opened during renovations. Seemed to be exactly what was happening. We left....


----------



## bullethead (Oct 2, 2019)

Dialer said:


> I’m NOT an Atheist, but have to say that I don’t understand. Spirits, scents, and sounds experienced along with a near death experience from an entity that matched the description of a lady that committed suicide in our home in early 70’s.  My mother was nearly suffocated by the entity the night before we left the house.  A personal investigation proved a lady had killed herself in the north bathroom in July of 1961. When we moved in, that bathroom was neatly boarded up, and we were warned not to open it up. We did open it, and thats when entities began appearing from all eras.
> I was told by Georgia Haunt Hunt team that this was a simple case of opening a “portal” to the dead. Wandering spirits could come and go thru this portal since it had been disturbed and opened during renovations. Seemed to be exactly what was happening. We left....


Sooo many questions but no way to give or get the right answers.
Very Intriguing,  I would love to be on a case like that.


----------



## Capt Quirk (Oct 2, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Sooo many questions but no way to give or get the right answers.
> Very Intriguing,  I would love to be on a case like that.


Hauntings are often like mystery car issues, they never happen when the mechanic is there. But, just wait till you buy "one of those" houses. Interesting stuff for sure.


----------



## bullethead (Oct 2, 2019)

Capt Quirk said:


> Hauntings are often like mystery car issues, they never happen when the mechanic is there. But, just wait till you buy "one of those" houses. Interesting stuff for sure.


In the story above regarding evil ghosts that can do physical things in the physical world, Why would a wall or door, or boards be able to contain something or things that do not operate within our laws of physics and time/place constraints?
A woman committed suicide in a bathroom. The bathroom is sealed off by less than magical means. All is good until the physical barrier is opened and then the dead lady and a host of other ghouls are now suddenly freed to run amok in the physical world and they actually have powers to interact and cause physical harm to the living? But those powers didnt work for many many many years because of some sheetrock?

Like I said, I cannot think of a legitimate answer for any of it. Nobody will be able to explain it using any sort of evidence.
So I wish I was there to witness it to compare my experience with someone else who was also there.

As of right now we have,: a dead lady's spirit locked away in a closed room and unable to escape because ?____? Is suddenly released because ?____? and also before her release somehow more bad spirits got in there because ?___?  and they were also trapped in there because ?____?  And they could get in there but couldn't get out because ?____? But once they got out they are all of a sudden able to use powers, which they could not use previously, to cause harm to people who are not dead...
Simply saying that a portal was opened is a claim or an assertion that has no proof. It is an excuse. I have a hard time being convinced that the sectioned off room became a gathering spot for numerous spirits who did not have the powers to defy physics and logic to get beyond a wall, then all of a sudden can defy physics and logic once the room was opened.


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## Dialer (Oct 2, 2019)

bullethead said:


> In the story above regarding evil ghosts that can do physical things in the physical world, Why would a wall or door, or boards be able to contain something or things that do not operate within our laws of physics and time/place constraints?
> A woman committed suicide in a bathroom. The bathroom is sealed off by less than magical means. All is good until the physical barrier is opened and then the dead lady and a host of other ghouls are now suddenly freed to run amok in the physical world and they actually have powers to interact and cause physical harm to the living? But those powers didnt work for many many many years because of some sheetrock?
> 
> Like I said, I cannot think of a legitimate answer for any of it. Nobody will be able to explain it using any sort of evidence.
> ...


  All I remember is that the bathroom in question was always ice cold and implemented a distinct sense of dread. It is well known that the renovation process somehow “disturbs”, or “awakens” the portal, almost shining a light that has just been switched on, to the other dimension where lost souls wander, perhaps not aware of their death... The lady that killed herself was a retired RN that was 77 years old at death. Not necessarily the soul or spirit that appeared face to face that had no eyes and dressed in a long flowing gown. I could write a book, but who has time?


----------



## Capt Quirk (Oct 2, 2019)

bullethead said:


> In the story above regarding evil ghosts that can do physical things in the physical world, Why would a wall or door, or boards be able to contain something or things that do not operate within our laws of physics and time/place constraints?
> A woman committed suicide in a bathroom. The bathroom is sealed off by less than magical means. All is good until the physical barrier is opened and then the dead lady and a host of other ghouls are now suddenly freed to run amok in the physical world and they actually have powers to interact and cause physical harm to the living? But those powers didnt work for many many many years because of some sheetrock?
> 
> Like I said, I cannot think of a legitimate answer for any of it. Nobody will be able to explain it using any sort of evidence.
> ...


You are asking the wrong person, I don't have the answers, just more questions.


----------



## 660griz (Oct 3, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> I get the point you are making but I think they can be the same thing at times.
> I often think about my grandfather. I "hear" his voice perfectly. I can even smell him. Garlic and sweat from him working in his garden.. Sounds gross but for me its the most comforting smell in the world.
> He's not there. Its my brain producing the conversation, his voice, his smell, the whole shebang. Its me talking to me about how much I miss him etc.
> I would imagine the vast majority of the "God talked to me" folks are doing the exact same thing. The difference is whether we recognize its us talking to us or not.


I don't think of hearing voices you are familiar with and hearing 'voices' are even close to the same. No one could be familiar with the voice of God or their dog, etc.


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2019)

Dialer said:


> All I remember is that the bathroom in question was always ice cold and implemented a distinct sense of dread. It is well known that the renovation process somehow “disturbs”, or “awakens” the portal, almost shining a light that has just been switched on, to the other dimension where lost souls wander, perhaps not aware of their death... The lady that killed herself was a retired RN that was 77 years old at death. Not necessarily the soul or spirit that appeared face to face that had no eyes and dressed in a long flowing gown. I could write a book, but who has time?



No eyes as in empty eye holes or no eye holes?


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## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2019)

660griz said:


> I don't think of hearing voices you are familiar with and hearing 'voices' are even close to the same. No one could be familiar with the voice of God or their dog, etc.



Great point.  The answer to that will be "I just knew it was him/her" or "It was unmistakably him/her".


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## Dialer (Oct 3, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> No eyes as in empty eye holes or no eye holes?


 She just said the apparition had no eyes, and was right in her face when She woke up...


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2019)

I used to meditate allot.  Often I would concentrate on my breathing.  Sometimes I would try to focus on a single sensation.  Some times I would try to recreate a sensation, like the taste of a strawberry.  I got good enough at it where I couldn't distinguish the thought of eating a strawberry from the experience of actually eating one.

On more than one occasion I have been awakened from sleep (or I might have been on the verge of waking) by voices or touches.  One time I heard a woman's voice say "hey" and I felt the sheets pulled off my legs and a hand grab my right calf.  I snapped up and the sheets were off my legs and I had the lingering sensation of having been groped. 

Two things, and this is in no way meant to explain anybody else's experience:

1.  Weird things happen in the state of sleep or semi-sleep.
2.  I am able to create experiences with my mind that are indistinguishable from the actual experience. 

Those two facts give me a different way to analyze some kinds of paranormal experiences.


----------



## j_seph (Oct 3, 2019)

bullethead said:


> In the story above regarding evil ghosts that can do physical things in the physical world, Why would a wall or door, or boards be able to contain something or things that do not operate within our laws of physics and time/place constraints?
> A woman committed suicide in a bathroom. The bathroom is sealed off by less than magical means. All is good until the physical barrier is opened and then the dead lady and a host of other ghouls are now suddenly freed to run amok in the physical world and they actually have powers to interact and cause physical harm to the living? But those powers didnt work for many many many years because of some sheetrock?
> 
> Like I said, I cannot think of a legitimate answer for any of it. Nobody will be able to explain it using any sort of evidence.
> ...


Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay


----------



## bullethead (Oct 3, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay


Maybe.
Or maybe the spirits were allergic to wallpaper glue? Or.....X1000


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2019)

j_seph said:


> Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay



Who can close a portal?  A Catholic priest?  A Wiccan?  A Buddhist monk?  A Navajo shaman?  Could I do it if I read a book of spells?


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## 660griz (Oct 3, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I used to meditate allot.  Often I would concentrate on my breathing.  Sometimes I would try to focus on a single sensation.  Some times I would try to recreate a sensation, like the taste of a strawberry.  I got good enough at it where I couldn't distinguish the thought of eating a strawberry from the experience of actually eating one.
> 
> On more than one occasion I have been awakened from sleep (or I might have been on the verge of waking) by voices or touches.  One time I heard a woman's voice say "hey" and I felt the sheets pulled off my legs and a hand grab my right calf.  I snapped up and the sheets were off my legs and I had the lingering sensation of having been groped.
> 
> ...


To sum up 1 and 2, the mind is a powerful thing. 
The reason placebos and prayer have the illusion of working sometimes.


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 3, 2019)

660griz said:


> To sum up 1 and 2, the mind is a powerful thing.
> The reason placebos and prayer have the illusion of working sometimes.



https://wgntv.com/2017/08/31/woman-...live-as-rare-condition-causes-blisters-sores/

_“She will literally feel the heat come up and it will blister and develop to sores,” Dr. van der Merwe said. _

Real physical bodily manifestations caused by a mental state.  How much more likely is it to be able feel "The loving warmth and presence of God" than to think you're on fire and have blisters and sores appear.  How about all those scratches and welts that appear on people "attacked by demons"?  I'm sure she doesn't care if the pain is all in her head anymore than a believer feeling the loving warmth and peaceful presence of God does. It's real enough to them.


----------



## bullethead (Oct 3, 2019)

Our bodies are vessels of energy. For most people the things work as they are seemingly supposed to. For others, that energy manifests itself in different ways. There are always exceptions to the rule. I really doubt that all the "normal" people are actually normal as it seems that our bodies and minds are as unique as the individual. I cannot imagine that with over 7 billion humans in the planet that there are even two alike in every way. We each take in, use, and interpret energy in various ways.


----------



## WaltL1 (Oct 7, 2019)

660griz said:


> I don't think of hearing voices you are familiar with and hearing 'voices' are even close to the same. No one could be familiar with the voice of God or their dog, etc.


Unless..... mentally…… you have assigned them a voice and therefore recognize it as being them.
Are you a pet owner? I'll bet dollars to donuts your family have assigned Fido a "voice".
I completely understand the distinction you are making though. Im just throwing out tid bits to maybe show it can be a little more complicated.
As for God's voice, I'm going with like Charlton Heston in the old movies as opposed to say PeeWee Herman.


----------



## bullethead (Oct 7, 2019)

I watched the Joker movie over the weekend. Not gonna spoil anything and I am definitely not saying anyone specifically in here with a belief in a god or spirits, ghosts etc is in any way mentally unstable.
But, the movie made me think about how people with mental conditions have completely different versions of reality than people who do not and how they can be influential to others. I am sure these conditions range from mild to wild and their experiences also fit in that range. I also dont think that there is a perfect human specimen on the planet and we all are a unique in our own ways. I DO think people hear, see, and experience things that to them are indiscernible from reality. Some may be more in tune with another dimension that possibly exists and others may be way out of tune with the reality that exists around them. Some can tap into parts of their brain that others may never know exists while others do not seem to be able to access the common areas. I just am not able to fully relate to everything others claim about the paranormal and religious experiences and it may be something on my end as well as theirs. But I can totally see how see how someone else interprets things differently from me and I always try to get them to put in in ways I can understand or if they say things are true to back them up with proven examples and facts.


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## 660griz (Oct 8, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Unless..... mentally…… you have assigned them a voice and therefore recognize it as being them.
> Are you a pet owner? I'll bet dollars to donuts your family have assigned Fido a "voice".
> I completely understand the distinction you are making though. Im just throwing out tid bits to maybe show it can be a little more complicated.
> As for God's voice, I'm going with like Charlton Heston in the old movies as opposed to say PeeWee Herman.


I have a dog, a cat, 5 goats, and 6 chickens. All pets. I have not assigned a 'human' voice to them.  I guess I am weird. They each have their own sounds. I do talk to them like they are human though.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 8, 2019)

660griz said:


> I have a dog, a cat, 5 goats, and 6 chickens. All pets. I have not assigned a 'human' voice to them.  I guess I am weird. They each have their own sounds. I do talk to them like they are human though.


Yep, you are weird 
Ive never met a pet owner that didn't vocalize for their pets to other family members etc using a particular voice for that pet.
Well I do know a guy that owns some serious coon dogs that hasnt but his dogs aren't really "family pets".


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## 660griz (Oct 9, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Yep, you are weird


I am not surprised. I am an atheist voting 'conservative'.


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## WaltL1 (Oct 9, 2019)

660griz said:


> I am not surprised. I am an atheist voting 'conservative'.


Good luck. Im not sure there is actually a conservative to vote for.
But thats a whole other conversation.


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Yep, you are weird
> Ive never met a pet owner that didn't vocalize for their pets to other family members etc using a particular voice for that pet.
> Well I do know a guy that owns some serious coon dogs that hasnt but his dogs aren't really "family pets".



All my pets have voices.  It's fun.


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

Im a believer in God who doesn't believe in ghosts.  I always use a quote from Ambush when discussing such with those who believe they exist......."how did their clothes, swords, etc pass through to the spirit world."  It's interesting to me how all ghosts seem to be a snapshot in time of a certain person or thing..........if you became a ghost, what age ghost would it be?  Teenage you?  infant you?  Adult you?  Old you?

I may have missed a few pages of discussions on these things, just thought I would throw it out there for old times sake.  Miss debating with you guys.


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## bullethead (Oct 9, 2019)

I have dreamed things that seemed as real as anything that has happened while I was awake. I can believe instances can and do occur where the brain can blend dreams with reality. It seems to happen quite often in elderly and or people with illnesses so why could it not happen with younger/healthy people where they would be 100% sure they saw something or someone that was locked away in their brain somewhere?? Could be perceived as a ghost or a god....


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## WaltL1 (Oct 9, 2019)

JB0704 said:


> All my pets have voices.  It's fun.


Brent!
Of course your pets have voices. How else would they talk to us 
And I saw your pics of your new little slice of Shangri-La.
To borrow a phrase - you certainly seem to be blessed!


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Brent!
> Of course your pets have voices. How else would they talk to us
> And I saw your pics of your new little slice of Shangri-La.
> To borrow a phrase - you certainly seem to be blessed!



Thanks my friend!  FYI.......that little pond is full of bass, some good'ns too.  Come down fishing with me anytime!  I will also have a dove hunt or two if you like that sorta thing as well.  I'll send a PM sometime, and see if I can't get you down for a visit.


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I have dreamed things that seemed as real as anything that has happened while I was awake. I can believe instances can and do occur where the brain can blend dreams with reality. It seems to happen quite often in elderly and or people with illnesses so why could it not happen with younger/healthy people where they would be 100% sure they saw something or someone that was locked away in their brain somewhere?? Could be perceived as a ghost or a god....



My FIL, in his last days, began seeing things.  They were as real as day to him.  One of them was he kept complaining that the burgers on the ceiling were dripping grease on his forehead.  It's possible the brain's inner workings can get crossed in healthy folks as well.  I have heard some very normal people explain very real circumstances to them.  The mind playing tricks is prolly the best explanation.


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 9, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I have dreamed things that seemed as real as anything that has happened while I was awake. I can believe instances can and do occur where the brain can blend dreams with reality. It seems to happen quite often in elderly and or people with illnesses so why could it not happen with younger/healthy people where they would be 100% sure they saw something or someone that was locked away in their brain somewhere?? Could be perceived as a ghost or a god....





JB0704 said:


> My FIL, in his last days, began seeing things.  They were as real as day to him.  One of them was he kept complaining that the burgers on the ceiling were dripping grease on his forehead.  It's possible the brain's inner workings can get crossed in healthy folks as well.  I have heard some very normal people explain very real circumstances to them.  The mind playing tricks is prolly the best explanation.



I've induced those kinds of experiences on purpose occasionally



480 × 204


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## ambush80 (Oct 9, 2019)

WaltL1 said:


> Brent!
> Of course your pets have voices. How else would they talk to us
> And I saw your pics of your new little slice of Shangri-La.
> To borrow a phrase - you certainly seem to be blessed!




Where's the pics?


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Where's the pics?



Facebook.  I bought a 30 acre farm with a small pond n a 10+ acre dove field.  I’m livin the dream!  I’ll post some for ya if u ain’t on Facebook


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## ambush80 (Oct 9, 2019)

JB0704 said:


> Facebook.  I bought a 30 acre farm with a small pond n a 10+ acre dove field.  I’m livin the dream!  I’ll post some for ya if u ain’t on Facebook



I do not have the Facebook.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 9, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I do not have the Facebook.


I could let you borrow mine...


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## JB0704 (Oct 9, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I do not have the Facebook.



Most my pics won’t load, I’ll resize n send........n I don’t wanna derail the haint thread too much


----------



## oldfella1962 (Oct 17, 2019)

Dialer said:


> All I remember is that the bathroom in question was always ice cold and implemented a distinct sense of dread. It is well known that the renovation process somehow “disturbs”, or “awakens” the portal, almost shining a light that has just been switched on, to the other dimension where lost souls wander, perhaps not aware of their death... The lady that killed herself was a retired RN that was 77 years old at death. Not necessarily the soul or spirit that appeared face to face that had no eyes and dressed in a long flowing gown. I could write a book, but who has time?



"All I remember is that the bathroom in question was always ice cold and implemented a distinct sense of dread." - anybody entering my bathroom in the morning within 30  minutes or so of me....."functional checking" my digestive system..... would have a similar sense of dread.


----------



## oldfella1962 (Oct 17, 2019)

bullethead said:


> Our bodies are vessels of energy. For most people the things work as they are seemingly supposed to. For others, that energy manifests itself in different ways. There are always exceptions to the rule. I really doubt that all the "normal" people are actually normal as it seems that our bodies and minds are as unique as the individual. I cannot imagine that with over 7 billion humans in the planet that there are even two alike in every way. We each take in, use, and interpret energy in various ways.



good point! Science claims all matter is a form of energy. And when you get right down to it what is "your body?" There is more of what isn't solid than what is solid. We are made of atoms of various types that all are structured similarly. Electrons orbiting a nucleus, much like planets orbiting a sun. Between the electrons and nucleus is a whole lot of empty space - a whole lot of nothing. Just like between planets and their sun there is a great space with basically nothing. So we feel solid, but thousands of radio waves and cell phone waves can pass through our bodies at any one time. Place a transistor radio in the middle of a group of people - the signal gets through just fine. Waves are zipping through all that empty space within the atoms of our bodies. If you could compress all the "solid" parts of my 170 pound body into one area it would probably be a microscopic sub-atomic 170 pound particle. The force from the electrons in constant motion in orbit around a nucleus keeps everything "solid" from getting inside the atom, kind of how earth's electromagnetic field keeps out the deadly radiation from the sun. 

My point here is if types of energy (such as radio waves carrying data) can pass through the vast empty space of atoms in our body, walls, doors, bricks, etc. who know what other types of energy can also pass through without detection?


----------



## oldfella1962 (Oct 17, 2019)

JB0704 said:


> My FIL, in his last days, began seeing things.  They were as real as day to him.  One of them was he kept complaining that the burgers on the ceiling were dripping grease on his forehead.  It's possible the brain's inner workings can get crossed in healthy folks as well.  I have heard some very normal people explain very real circumstances to them.  The mind playing tricks is prolly the best explanation.



oh my goodness I could write a book about all the incredible delusions/hallucinations my wife had during her two separate month-long mental breakdowns. And much like being blackout drunk, the part of the brain that lets you remember it all shuts down while your brain malfunctions. When I told her all the crazy things she was saying and doing she was amazed. She remembers bits & pieces here and there and some of it comes back to her, but her entire thought processes were disrupted and she was literally another person. It's something I hope never happens to her again. Some kind of brain chemistry thing with the dosages and interactions of various medications she was taking were most likely the cause. I have no doubt that hundreds/thousands of years ago before medical science was advanced, everyone would swear evil spirits were the cause of it, especially since it came and went seemingly over night. 

This is why I get so upset when people use strong "recreational" drugs that take them out of their normal reality. There are people who would love to be grounded in reality and rational normal thought, but cannot due to severe mental illness and brain malfunction often due to faulty brain chemistry. People do these drugs to get "out of their mind" loopy but they don't appreciate just how precious & important sober rational though is.


----------



## Madman (Oct 17, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> I'm intrigued by the Paranormal which is one of the reasons that I find religious belief so interesting.  I classify miracle claims are paranormal.  That's why I ask believers "What did God's voice sound like?" so often.  I want the details of a paranormal experience; I want to know what the ghost was wearing and what it smelled like if it had any odor.
> 
> I'm compelled by the explanations of ghosts that refer to "wrinkles in time" as Bullet suggested,  or "recording of events" in the substrate of the material world, like grooves on a record.
> 
> My neighbor and friend believes in ghosts (though I think I may have started swaying him away from it).  He has a EVP app on his phone.  I aksed him how it woks.  He didn't know and up until that time he didn't care.  He's a church planter.  I only mention that because I have observed him to be _very_ selectively skeptical .  He doesn't trust the govt. and is prone to believe in conspiracy theories, particularly around 911, yet he hadn't researched explanations that contradicted his beliefs.  We sat around on his couch one night and watched videos about 911.  I told him to find ones that were the most compelling to him and we watched them.  I then asked him to find a video that contradicted the last one.  We were streaming Youtube to his TV.  There were no contrary videos in his algorithm, only ones that reinforced his ideas.  People say that this echo chamber phenomenon is new but it's not really.  Going to church and hanging out with believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.


Hey ambush!!  When you coming down for lunch?  

You are right. 

Going to church Atheists websites and hanging out with believers non-believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.

Take care.


----------



## ambush80 (Oct 17, 2019)

Madman said:


> Hey ambush!!  When you coming down for lunch?




I plan on hunting in Athens in a couple of weeks.  If I camp I could swing by your side of town sometime, maybe for lunch or dinner. 



Madman said:


> You are right.
> 
> Going to church Atheists websites and hanging out with believers non-believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.
> 
> Take care.



I'd rather talk to believers about these kinds of things than non-believers.  That's where the action is.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Oct 21, 2019)

JB0704 said:


> Im a believer in God who doesn't believe in ghosts.  I always use a quote from Ambush when discussing such with those who believe they exist......."how did their clothes, swords, etc pass through to the spirit world."  It's interesting to me how all ghosts seem to be a snapshot in time of a certain person or thing..........if you became a ghost, what age ghost would it be?  Teenage you?  infant you?  Adult you?  Old you?
> 
> I may have missed a few pages of discussions on these things, just thought I would throw it out there for old times sake.  Miss debating with you guys.


Yeah, I've always wondered why ghosts aren't all nekkid. I can buy the idea of people having souls, but not a dress or pair of blue jeans.


----------



## Capt Quirk (Oct 21, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> Yeah, I've always wondered why ghosts aren't all nekkid. I can buy the idea of people having souls, but not a dress or pair of blue jeans.


Just memories of the way they were. There have been stories of ghosts walking several feet off the floor. After research was done, there used to be a higher floor back then. Some ghosts are nothing more than memories replaying, it is the intelligent ones that are interesting.


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## BassMan31 (Oct 22, 2019)

I believe in God. I believe is ghosts. They're memories of simulation past replaying as a kind of glitch.


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## bullethead (Oct 22, 2019)

BassMan31 said:


> I believe in God. I believe is ghosts. They're memories of simulation past replaying as a kind of glitch.


What memories would a person have of someone or something they never knew?


----------



## BassMan31 (Oct 22, 2019)

bullethead said:


> What memories would a person have of someone or something they never knew?



I don't believe they're memories of a person but memories of, we might as well call it "reality," that manifest themselves as physical phenomena. They're projections from the past and/or future. In higher dimensions this makes some sense.


----------



## Spotlite (Oct 22, 2019)

bullethead said:


> What memories would a person have of someone or something they never knew?


I can see / hear (not literally but in my mind and thoughts) my own Dad every day with a lot of things I now do. I pass those stories down to my youngest nephew that never met my Dad and sometimes he will mention things he dreamed or day dreamed about the Pawpaw he never met. If someone ever heard him talk about it not knowing that he only knows what he’s heard from us or saw in pictures, I imagine they’d think he saw his “ghost”.


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## bullethead (Oct 22, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> I can see / hear (not literally but in my mind and thoughts) my own Dad every day with a lot of things I now do. I pass those stories down to my youngest nephew that never met my Dad and sometimes he will mention things he dreamed or day dreamed about the Pawpaw he never met. If someone ever heard him talk about it not knowing that he only knows what he’s heard from us or saw in pictures, I imagine they’d think he saw his “ghost”.


I can understand that, but what would explain Me describing your dad? 
Would it be like Bassman describes above? And if they are manifested memories or people we may or may not know why would the ghost do "new" things like hover over a person, drag chains, close doors, touch a person...and all the things credited by ghosts??


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## ambush80 (Oct 22, 2019)

BassMan31 said:


> I don't believe they're memories of a person but memories of, we might as well call it "reality," that manifest themselves as physical phenomena. They're projections from the past and/or future. In higher dimensions this makes some sense.



Where and how do you suspect they're "recorded"?


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## Spotlite (Oct 22, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I can understand that, but what would explain Me describing your dad?
> Would it be like Bassman describes above? And if they are manifested memories or people we may or may not know why would the ghost do "new" things like hover over a person, drag chains, close doors, touch a person...and all the things credited by ghosts??


Definitely interesting, but not having any dealings with anything such as that - I don’t have a concrete answer.


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## bullethead (Oct 22, 2019)

Spotlite said:


> Definitely interesting, but not having any dealings with anything such as that - I don’t have a concrete answer.


That is why they are mysterious. 
Strange happenings that seem to have lots of questions and no explanations. 
Those things keep the brain from rusting tight!!


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 22, 2019)

I have lived on earth for over half a century. I have never seen a haint.


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## BassMan31 (Oct 23, 2019)

ambush80 said:


> Where and how do you suspect they're "recorded"?



Don't confuse a remnant or projection with a "recording." It may well be that some apparition phenomena are simply projections from previous times presenting themselves as physical "ghosts" in the present. It's all happening simultaneously (_from our perspective_). They're not recordings. I don't believe there is a mechanism for saving and storing universal or temporal memories.


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## bullethead (Oct 23, 2019)

BassMan31 said:


> Don't confuse a remnant or projection with a "recording." It may well be that some apparition phenomena are simply projections from previous times presenting themselves as physical "ghosts" in the present. It's all happening simultaneously (_from our perspective_). They're not recordings. I don't believe there is a mechanism for saving and storing universal or temporal memories.


I understand what you are saying as far as it is the past being seen in the present. How then would the past be able to interact and seemingly communicate with the present?  Basically how can projections of things that have been do new things if they (the projections) are just visions of what has already happened?


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## BassMan31 (Oct 23, 2019)

bullethead said:


> I understand what you are saying as far as it is the past being seen in the present. How then would the past be able to interact and seemingly communicate with the present?  Basically how can projections of things that have been do new things if they (the projections) are just visions of what has already happened?



In higher dimensions, things can "be at the same place at the same time." If this is true it follows (to me, anyway) that disturbances within the EM field of yester-year (a civil war battle) can be seen by us in the present as if it were happening now, because, in a way, it is. Time is relative. It's a projection only because that's how we perceive it. I'm just spit-ballin'.
This only accounts for ghostly things that look to be a kind-of "repeat" of historic events (people walking on floors that don't exist, etc.). But the ones that interact with the world around them... i dunno.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 23, 2019)

There are 3 basic types of paranormal encounters, according to the ghost crowd- residual, which is nothing more than a replay of the past. Intelligent, which means the spirit has some sense of it's surroundings, and can sometimes interact with people or things. Then you have Demonic, which is an intelligent entity, not human, not nice. There may be other things as well, but nothing is known for sure. It is, how they say, above our pay grade.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 23, 2019)

jollyroger said:


> You might be interested in a YT channel called The Ghosts of Carmel Maine. The guy is a ghost hunter, but he's "legit" in terms of not being sensational and dramatic. Basically it's a guy that does it for the love of it, and not for TV ratings. No glitz and glam, but some really nice captures. I'm not here to comment on whether or not it's real, all I'm saying is that my son and I find it to have a high entertainment value. A lot of residual contacts in what we've seen so far. Episodes are long, usually over an hour long.


 I hate YouTube, but I might check it out.


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## Capt Quirk (Oct 23, 2019)

There was one ghost Hunter show, I forget the name, but they were some Bubba MacGuyvers. Built a ghost trap out of a shop vac.


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## JB0704 (Oct 24, 2019)

NCHillbilly said:


> I have lived on earth for over half a century. I have never seen a haint.



Me neither.  But, I just hung a deerstand on the neighbors property right next to 5 old graves.......we calling it the graveyard stand and very much hoping it don’t get changed to the “haint stand.”

Landowner sez he was never able to figure out who was buried there.


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## ambush80 (Oct 24, 2019)

JB0704 said:


> Me neither.  But, I just hung a deerstand on the neighbors property right next to 5 old graves.......we calling it the graveyard stand and very much hoping it don’t get changed to the “haint stand.”
> 
> Landowner sez he was never able to figure out who was buried there.



While digging fence holes I punched through what I believe to have been an old grave with the auger. We were told that there might be some unmarked graves in that location.  We moved the fence line a bit.


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## atlashunter (Oct 29, 2019)

Just another superstition.


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## PopPop (Oct 29, 2019)

What I know is that I don’t know and you don’t either. Our Brains are only idling, who knows what lies beyond.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 27, 2020)

There is some interesting stuff on this board related to this topic. I started a thread about it earlier and then realized this one already existed.

I guess I believe in ghosts in a sense I just tend to think they are either angels or demons.  I really don’t know where else to put them as far as a category.

My grandma had two very odd occurrences happen to her that I’m aware of.  One was before I was born and one was around fifteen years ago.  The first happened one day when she was on her porch shelling peas.  Something made her look up from her work and she was shocked to see my great granddaddy standing next to a tree just out in front of the porch.  He said, “I just came to make sure everything was alright.”  She was too surprised to do anything besides nod her head in affirmation and he was gone.  Not like he faded away or really disappeared.  The way she described it was that he just wasn’t there anymore.  My grandma was not a strange person who was into things like ghost stories etc.  She didn’t tell tales or exaggerate.  

The second instance she told about was far more recent.  She had been sick and couldn’t do much for herself.  My momma and aunt took turns seeing about her during the day and early evening but she was there alone at night.  She told of a couple different instances of being visited by two people.  That was what she called them whatever they were.  She said they visited her during the night but she talked about this in a positive way.  She said it was comforting and these two “people” were very kind.  Some might say she just suffered from some sort of spell while she was sick and her mind created what she saw.  That’s possible.  All I know for sure was she believed it was real right up until the day that she died.

My wife had an experience staying in a cabin in North Carolina that she really won’t even tell me about.  She will only tell me that she saw what she believes had to be a ghost or something from the spiritual world.  That’s all she is willing to tell me.  When I’ve asked for more details she has told me, “I don’t want to talk about it.”  My wife is as level headed a person as you will ever meet.

And finally I’ve had two separate instances that I can’t explain.  Both were while I was laying in the bed at night.  My dad died in May of 2018.  About six months after he died I woke up in the middle of the night.  I was laying on my back and when I opened my eyes I saw what I can only describe as a light above me about a foot below the ceiling.  It was just kind of there is the best way I can describe it.  It was about the size of a softball roughly but didn’t have sharply defined borders.  I was trying to figure out what I was seeing but it was only there for a few more seconds.  It moved toward the ceiling and was just gone.  Now as weird as that is I didn’t feel the least bit put off by it and it actually had a real pleasant feeling about it.  The light was really soft but still bright if that makes sense.  I didn’t tell my wife about it but about two months after that almost the exact same thing happened again.  I woke up in the middle of the night but was laying on my side facing the wall this time.  Same type of light was between me and the wall.  I was glad to get to see it again as nuts as that sounds and it did something very similar to what it had done before.  It was there for a few seconds, moved toward the wall and was gone.  This may be wishful thinking on my part but I tend to think it was my dad’s spirit.  Why or how, I don’t know.  I didn’t think I saw this.  I wasn’t dreaming.  I saw it.  Now a person might say that I imagined it and there is nothing I can say to make them think otherwise.  But why did it just happen those two times if that were the case?

I’m not a weirdo who is obsessed with ghosts or goes around talking about this stuff and I’m sure not one of those ghost hunter people.?. I can’t explain this stuff but I can tell you for a fact that those two instances happened to me and I believe my wife and grandma.

A coworker of mine told me a weird and not so nice story about something that happened to him one time but I’ll tell that one later if anybody cares to hear about it.


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## lagrangedave (Jan 27, 2020)

Bring it!!!!!!


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## Danuwoa (Jan 27, 2020)

lagrangedave said:


> Bring it!!!!!!


Alright, man.  Here you go.  I’m an iron worker by trade.  You run into some interesting characters in this line of work.  Probably one of the most interesting as well as one of the toughest and smartest guys I’ve ever met is the guy who is my foreman now.  He is not a one to tell wild tales and I’ve never even known him to exaggerate.  He told me a story a few years ago about a house he had rented briefly.  I can’t prove this is true but I can just say I am pretty good at detecting bull crap and I know this guy pretty well and he’s not the type to make things up and I believe this story is true.

I’m an odd ball on my crew at work.  All of my coworkers are daily drug users (marijuana) and several of them are functioning alcoholics.  The highest level of education among most of them is a high school diploma.  Most of them can’t remember the last time they attended church. And most of them have been in jail.  I’m Marine Corps veteran.  A college graduate.  I’ve only had one speeding ticket in my life and never been to jail.  I hardly ever even drink a beer anymore except for maybe one with a steak when my wife and I go out to eat.  I’m at church every Sunday.  I say none of this to say that I’m better than any of them.  I love these guys and they are like family members to me.  I’m just illustrating the contrast between myself and them.

I don’t beat them over the head with my Christianity.  That’s not my style.  I try to live out a good sermon although I fail miserably most of the time.  But they know where I stand and we get into some good conversations about life and spiritual matters.  One day about three years ago we got into one of these conversations and started talking about faith.  That eventually lead to the matter of the existence of hades (the forum won’t let me type the other word) and satan and of course demons and that lead to ghosts.

My foreman’s name is Chris.  Chris shocked me by telling me he knew ghosts or haints or whatever a person might call them were real because he had seen one.  Of course that got everybody’s attention and he told the story.

Chris and his then wife found what they thought was a great deal renting an old but well cared for farm house outside of Smithville, Ga.  He said there was a nice old barn out back as well as a shop.  The rent was cheap and everything was in good condition and it was out in the country.  He got some chickens not long after they moved in and they could let their dogs roam free.  His two boys were around twelve and ten at the time.  They loved the new place and asked Chris if they could use the barn as their clubhouse.  He told them he was going to keep the chickens out there but that was fine if they also wanted to use it as a clubhouse.  His boys were excited and everybody loved the place.  He liked the fact that his boys were able to live the country life.  

Chris said they had been living there for a little over a month when he noticed that his boys didn’t go in the barn anymore.  He didn’t think much of it at first and figured they would get back to it eventually.  Another week or so went by and he finally decided to ask why they didn’t play in the barn thinking maybe his wife had told them not to do it.  He he asked they both told him that they didn’t like to go out there anymore because there was a boy out there that didn’t want them there.  Chris told them that this was their home and they had better not let some kid run them out of their clubhouse.  He figured some kid from down the road had been playing in the barn while the property stood vacant and had begun to think of it as his own and didn’t want to share it or give it up to the new occupants.

Chris said about a week later he was out in his barn just after dark.  He had a flashlight and was gathering eggs.  He was ready to go back to the house when he saw somebody standing over near the letter that lead to the loft.  He shined the light over there and there stood a boy of around eleven or twelve.  He was dressed in a pit of jeans and a red jacket.  I forgot to mention above that his sons had described the boy that way.  With his flashlight shining on the kid Chris called out to him in a friendly way, “Boy what are you doing?”  thinking he would tell the kid he was welcome to play in the barn by he couldn’t run his sons out.  He said as soon as he asked, the kid turned toward the latter leading up to the loft and shot straight up the latter.  He didn’t climb.  He ascended the latter without touching it.  Chris stood there thinking “There ain’t no way I just saw what I think I saw.”  He climbed the latter into the loft and shined his flashlight all around.  There was nobody there.

He climbed down and went in the house confused and pretty weirded out but not ready to abandon rational explanations.  But more strange things began to happen.  Chris started seeing a black cat around the place.  He didn’t think too much about it but noticed the cat would always keep its distance.  One day he was inside and noticed the cat walking from one room to another.  He said to his wife, “Did you let this dang cat in the house?”  She told him she didn’t know what he was talking about.  He told her about the black cat and said he had just seen it in the house.  She said she had seen it before but hadn’t let it in.  He figured the boys had done it and went to put the cat out but couldn’t find it.  He and his wife looked all over the house and never found it.

A few nights later he woke up and the cat was in his bed room.  He got up and went after it only to have it run into another room.  Again he couldn’t find it.  A few days later his youngest boy saw the cat outside.  He went inside and got his 22.  He shot the cat and nothing happened.  I know Chris’s son who is now twenty four years old and works with us.  I’ve watched him shoot.  He can shoot.  He does not miss.  And this was about a twenty yard shot.

A few nights later something happened that convinced Chris they had to leave. His youngest son got up in the night and got his 22 and walked to his brother’s bead and aimed the gun at him as if to shoot him.  The older brother yelled and Chris jumped up and ran into the room.  He snatched the gun from his youngest boy’s hand and it was like waking him up.  The boy didn’t know what he was doing in his brother’s room or why he had the gun.  He had no history of sleep walking and has never done it since.

They moved out immediately.  Chris said the property stood vacant for a long time.  Then somebody moved in only to move about a month later.  He said that happened a few more times and the house and barn were eventually torn down and later the property was sold.

Again, I can’t prove this is true.  I can just tell you that it was told to me by a guy that I’ve never known to lie or even exaggerate.


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## lagrangedave (Jan 27, 2020)

Thanks. Spooky stuff right there.


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## bullethead (Jan 27, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> Alright, man.  Here you go.  I’m an iron worker by trade.  You run into some interesting characters in this line of work.  Probably one of the most interesting as well as one of the toughest and smartest guys I’ve ever met is the guy who is my foreman now.  He is not a one to tell wild tales and I’ve never even known him to exaggerate.  He told me a story a few years ago about a house he had rented briefly.  I can’t prove this is true but I can just say I am pretty good at detecting bull crap and I know this guy pretty well and he’s not the type to make things up and I believe this story is true.
> 
> I’m an odd ball on my crew at work.  All of my coworkers are daily drug users (marijuana) and several of them are functioning alcoholics.  The highest level of education among most of them is a high school diploma.  Most of them can’t remember the last time they attended church. And most of them have been in jail.  I’m Marine Corps veteran.  A college graduate.  I’ve only had one speeding ticket in my life and never been to jail.  I hardly ever even drink a beer anymore except for maybe one with a steak when my wife and I go out to eat.  I’m at church every Sunday.  I say none of this to say that I’m better than any of them.  I love these guys and they are like family members to me.  I’m just illustrating the contrast between myself and them.
> 
> ...


In your opinion,  what place does a ghost serve in the afterlife and how does their existence conflict with your religious beliefs?


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## Danuwoa (Jan 27, 2020)

bullethead said:


> In your opinion,  what place does a ghost serve in the afterlife and how does their existence conflict with your religious beliefs?


No idea what place they serve.  If the “ghost” is benign or the experience is positive I have to believe that is an angel.  If the opposite is true the I have to think it’s a demon.  As far as what purpose they serve it’s tough to say other than demons are there to lead people astray and confuse them.  There are also stories of angels helping people.  I don’t know how many of those stories are true but I think happens.


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## 660griz (Jan 28, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> <snipped>
> 
> They moved out immediately.  Chris said the property stood vacant for a long time.  Then somebody moved in only to move about a month later.  He said that happened a few more times and the house and barn were eventually torn down and later the property was sold.
> 
> Again, I can’t prove this is true.  I can just tell you that it was told to me by a guy that I’ve never known to lie or even exaggerate.



Just an FYI for anyone with this type information in the future. I am always on the lookout for property for cheap. I bet I could have gotten a great deal on this one.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 28, 2020)

Wonder why the idea of ghost freaks everyone out? Hollywood? The way in which they are perceived as hiding or lurking? Of course, I to would be freaked out by a barn kid who does not climb stairs. However, I wonder about if anyone might perceive a ghost as a neutral thing, possibly as a protector from bad ghost? Like a dolphin against sharks... or a king snake against other snakes, etc. LOL, like Casper, the friendly ghost. I had much rather have Casper than that scary purple character. LOL, how did clowns ever evolve into being scary. In a few years, are we to think Santa will be a scary man? Crazy world we live in


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## Danuwoa (Jan 28, 2020)

1gr8bldr said:


> Wonder why the idea of ghost freaks everyone out? Hollywood? The way in which they are perceived as hiding or lurking? Of course, I to would be freaked out by a barn kid who does not climb stairs. However, I wonder about if anyone might perceive a ghost as a neutral thing, possibly as a protector from bad ghost? Like a dolphin against sharks... or a king snake against other snakes, etc. LOL, like Casper, the friendly ghost. I had much rather have Casper than that scary purple character. LOL, how did clowns ever evolve into being scary. In a few years, are we to think Santa will be a scary man? Crazy world we live in


Yeah it’s weird what scares people.  I’ve always wondered why the idea of aliens scares people.  Is it because they aren’t supposed to be real?  I don’t know if they are or not but I really don’t care.  The idea doesn’t seem scary to me.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 28, 2020)

660griz said:


> Just an FYI for anyone with this type information in the future. I am always on the lookout for property for cheap. I bet I could have gotten a great deal on this one.


You wouldn’t have gotten it cheap if you were of a mind to buy it.  There’s a Dollar General there now.?


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## Spotlite (Jan 28, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> You wouldn’t have gotten it cheap if you were of a mind to buy it.  There’s a Dollar General there now.?


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## Danuwoa (Jan 28, 2020)

Spotlite said:


> View attachment 1000628


??Right?


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## killerv (Jan 29, 2020)

Interesting topic. I personally believe in ghosts. I'm a Christian. Old buddy of mine grew up in an 1800s era house near Old Clinton in Gray. Said he had a ghost kid that would come stand by his bed and try to get him up to play with him. His mother said she had seen them too. They moved.

And if you haven't seen Babadook, its the best ghost movie I think I've ever seen.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 29, 2020)

This is a topic I would have to experience for myself to be able to buy into it 100%.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> This is a topic I would have to experience for myself to be able to buy into it 100%.


And that’s how you should feel.


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## Madman (Jan 29, 2020)

ambush80 said:


> There were no contrary videos in his algorithm, only ones that reinforced his ideas.  People say that this echo chamber phenomenon is new but it's not really.  Going to church and hanging out with believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.



This can be applied to the vast majority of humanity. Unless we intentionally delve into a particular topic one is inclined to discount those ideas/arguments that go against our beliefs and pursue those that reinforce.  

Hanging out with non-believers all day will "screw up your algorithm", too.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 29, 2020)

South GA Dawg said:


> And that’s how you should feel.


I'm certainly not "against" the idea - lots of unexplainable things have happened to folks. Its just one of those things I would have to experience for myself to be able to totally wrap my head around it.


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## Madman (Jan 29, 2020)

Is there anything we know of that would make ghosts/spirits/etc. impossible?

Mathematically, Physics, chemistry, philosophically?


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## WaltL1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Madman said:


> Is there anything we know of that would make ghosts/spirits/etc. impossible?
> 
> Mathematically, Physics, chemistry, philosophically?


Impossible?
That would be a pretty bold claim to say its impossible.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm certainly not "against" the idea - lots of unexplainable things have happened to folks. Its just one of those things I would have to experience for myself to be able to totally wrap my head around it.


Absolutely.  The story I told about what happened to me sounds like bull crap.  I know it does.  But I saw what I saw.  I can’t say for a fact it was a spirit but I sure can’t explain it.


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## 660griz (Jan 29, 2020)

1gr8bldr said:


> how did clowns ever evolve into being scary.


"IT"--Stephen King's fault. 
There is a scary Santa movie too. "Silent Night, Deadly Night". and others..


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## bullethead (Jan 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I'm certainly not "against" the idea - lots of unexplainable things have happened to folks. Its just one of those things I would have to experience for myself to be able to totally wrap my head around it.


I have had a few unexplainable things happen and being an extremely skeptical person and wanting to know the hows and whys, I have still only come up with Unexplained as answers.


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## Madman (Jan 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> Impossible?
> That would be a pretty bold claim to say its impossible.



 Then they are possible, so far as I know.  Never seen one, but they seem to be possible.


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## WaltL1 (Jan 29, 2020)

bullethead said:


> I have had a few unexplainable things happen and being an extremely skeptical person and wanting to know the hows and whys, I have still only come up with Unexplained as answers.


I wonder what my final analysis would be -
1. I actually saw a ghost/spirit/entity/whatever
2. My last marble just rolled out of the bag and I am officially nuts
3. Flashbacks are cool


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## bullethead (Jan 29, 2020)

WaltL1 said:


> I wonder what my final analysis would be -
> 1. I actually saw a ghost/spirit/entity/whatever
> 2. My last marble just rolled out of the bag and I am officially nuts
> 3. Flashbacks are cool


I think about them often.
Each one different.
I can make an excuse for what I think happened or why I think I saw what I saw for one instance, but I really do not have an explanation that says That Is What Happened, PERIOD.
Truly unexplainable.


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