# Can happiness exist...



## drippin' rock (Apr 23, 2013)

without God?


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## stringmusic (Apr 23, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> without God?



No.


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## drippin' rock (Apr 23, 2013)

Ok. That is a good place to start I suppose. I know folks that do not believe in God, or any god for that matter, that seem fine with their place in life.   I listen to many different ideas from people from all walks of life that are agnostic or atheist and seem perfectly at peace with their place in this universe. 

Are they mistaken?  Are they unhappy and just don't know it?


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## gtparts (Apr 23, 2013)

In this life, 'happiness' is just an emotion tied to ones circumstance. If what we are experiencing is more positive than negative, we are, to some degree, 'happy'. The 'feeling is transient, a temporary state of mind.

The concept diverges at the point where one determines that temporal life is the only life or that there exists an 'afterlife' on a different plane. If there is a God (and I most certainly do, based on personal experience), then what we consider happiness in this life is far less tolerable than the perfect joy that God offers. In fact, the contrast is beyond the extremes our minds are capable of comprehending.

The 'happiness' that this world offers is less than a shadow of God's gift of His grace, His joy, or His peace.


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## bullethead (Apr 23, 2013)

stringmusic said:


> no.


?



gtparts said:


> in this life, 'happiness' is just an emotion tied to ones circumstance. If what we are experiencing is more positive than negative, we are, to some degree, 'happy'. The 'feeling is transient, a temporary state of mind.
> 
> The concept diverges at the point where one determines that temporal life is the only life or that there exists an 'afterlife' on a different plane. If there is a god (and i most certainly do, based on personal experience), then what we consider happiness in this life is far less tolerable than the perfect joy that god offers. In fact, the contrast is beyond the extremes our minds are capable of comprehending.
> 
> The 'happiness' that this world offers is less than a shadow of god's gift of his grace, his joy, or his peace.



???!


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## stringmusic (Apr 23, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> Ok. That is a good place to start I suppose. I know folks that do not believe in God, or any god for that matter, that seem fine with their place in life.   I listen to many different ideas from people from all walks of life that are agnostic or atheist and seem perfectly at peace with their place in this universe.


I'm sure they are "happy" with their place in this universe, I just don't think they know what true happiness really is.

And I'm not saying I fully know what it is to experience true happiness, I don't think I'll find that out until I am in the presence of the living God, but, I do feel like I get a small taste of what it is by having the Holy Spirit in my life on this earth. 



> Are they mistaken?  Are they unhappy and just don't know it?



Basically, yes, they are mistaken. I don't know that I would classify it as unhappy, but more along the lines of not really knowing what true happiness is.


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## bullethead (Apr 23, 2013)

With an Omniscient Being involved there is no choice in it for a mere human. Ultimately the ones that are supposed to be happy will be happy and the ones that are meant not to be happy cannot change the cards they have been dealt.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 23, 2013)

I would say yes. Only because I know some unhappy Christians and a few unhappy Muslims. The Ekankar folks always appear happy.


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## TheBishop (Apr 23, 2013)

I think a definition of happiness is in order. Is it a euphoric state? Something akin to being high or buzzed? A moment without saddness? Is it temporary or continuous?  Is it something recognizable to others or only to oneself? Is happiness defined by our success or is somehow success a vehicle to happiness? 

I think you get my point. Happiness, is one of those many things like religion, morality, and even reality. It is subject to individual interpretation and it's definition varies widely, even among those living in the same culture.

After defining happiness we then would have to define or at least set the parameters for a god.  Is it any god or the christian god? What about gods, plural? Ect..

It is a loaded question that has absolutley no possible right answer.


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## drippin' rock (Apr 23, 2013)

What I could ask is, does one have to believe in the God of the bible to have a truly fulfilled life?  I know the Christian answer is yes, but in a world of 7 billion people, only 2.1 billion are Christian.  That seems awfully presumptuous to tell the other 4.9 billion they are sadly mistaken.


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## bullethead (Apr 23, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> What I could ask is, does one have to believe in the God of the bible to have a truly fulfilled life?  I know the Christian answer is yes, but in a world of 7 billion people, only 2.1 billion are Christian.  That seems awfully presumptuous to tell the other 4.9 billion they are sadly mistaken.



Pre-Xactly!


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## stringmusic (Apr 23, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> What I could ask is, does one have to believe in the God of the bible to have a truly fulfilled life?  I know the Christian answer is yes, but in a world of 7 billion people, only 2.1 billion are Christian.  That seems awfully presumptuous to tell the other 4.9 billion they are sadly mistaken.



Truth, by definition, is exclusive. 

As it pertains to the number of humans on this planet, the majority are not on the side of truth.


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## Steve Thompson (Apr 23, 2013)

gtparts got it right. No human can even come close to understanding how our creator has this place wired. Or how this energy is recycled to another place.  Give up & have faith.


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## Ronnie T (Apr 23, 2013)

I've read of criminals in prison who are happy.  Drug addicts who've lost all their friends and family still claim to be happy.

I've also known at least a couple of people who have known of Christ since childhood, yet I doubt they have found much of a spark of happiness in life.  One is a 66 year old lady who's known Christ since her teens, but she has few, if any, happy days.  She creates misery for herself and others around her.

"True" happiness belongs to those who've put their trust in the Lord.  No worries; no enemies; no negativity; no regrets; no wishing for things not found.

Some people lie about their happiness.


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## WTM45 (Apr 23, 2013)

Depression and mental illness are not exclusive of religious belief systems.  Or, of Agnositcs and Atheists too.

One makes their happiness.  Many do not have the ability simply due to mental health issues.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 24, 2013)

I think you can be happy without God....or at least you think you are happy. Been there.....but not joy.....there's always the day after that you think you are happy that you realize that 'happy' is living in the moment. Now I have joy all the time and I'm 'happy' with that in everything I do and now it's everlasting joy...not just for the moment.


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## mtnwoman (Apr 24, 2013)

Ronnie T said:


> I've read of criminals in prison who are happy.  Drug addicts who've lost all their friends and family still claim to be happy.
> 
> I've also known at least a couple of people who have known of Christ since childhood, yet I doubt they have found much of a spark of happiness in life.  One is a 66 year old lady who's known Christ since her teens, but she has few, if any, happy days.  She creates misery for herself and others around her.
> 
> ...



I guess sometimes a ciggy will make you happy, or a joint or a beer...but it's temporary. God makes me feel happy all the time. Not saying I don't indulge sometimes, but it's short lived, whatever it is.....especially an angus burger from McDonalds....lol....that turns from happy to unhappy. I never feel unhappy when I'm with my Saviour!


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## mtnwoman (Apr 24, 2013)

drippin' rock said:


> What I could ask is, does one have to believe in the God of the bible to have a truly fulfilled life?  I know the Christian answer is yes, but in a world of 7 billion people, only 2.1 billion are Christian.  That seems awfully presumptuous to tell the other 4.9 billion they are sadly mistaken.



Well I think many people can be happy in many ways without believing in the God of the Bible.  Many people are capable of creating their own happiness...perhaps like bill gates....Personally I don't think all people of God are always happy, because of trials and tribulation, but I think in the long run everlasting fulfillment is more important than a short lived fulfilled life...just my opinion though. It's sort of like your Father telling you what to do and how to be all your life....ya know?...sometimes not so happy. But there is a deep joy that we have no way of explaining, and knowing Someone loves you, no matter how you fail.


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## Four (Apr 24, 2013)

TheBishop said:


> I think a definition of happiness is in order. Is it a euphoric state? Something akin to being high or buzzed? A moment without saddness? Is it temporary or continuous?  Is it something recognizable to others or only to oneself? Is happiness defined by our success or is somehow success a vehicle to happiness?
> 
> I think you get my point. Happiness, is one of those many things like religion, morality, and even reality. It is subject to individual interpretation and it's definition varies widely, even among those living in the same culture.
> 
> ...



You the man!  

I came in just to say this, Define your terms! It's all meaningless otherwise. Happyness, true happyness, joy, etc.

Also felt like dropping a Socrates Quote



			
				Socrates said:
			
		

> "The unexamined life is not worth living."


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## gtparts (Apr 25, 2013)

Since this appears in the A/A/A forum, I take it that we are not referring to endorphins, the 'warm fuzzies', or the lack of inhibitions due to drug and alcohol use. The wording of the OP also leads one to disregard the idea of transient emotions.

That pretty much leaves a more substantial, permanent foundation for the term 'happiness/happy'.

My observation is that those not engaged in Christ (or the living God, as some might call Him) are essentially adrift in an attempt to achieve and secure for themselves the underlying state of being that we call peace. 

The peace that God provides through the work of Christ on the cross is a reward for our faith. There is a completely different nature between the peace that God gives and the peace that the world offers.

Those who have not placed their faith in Christ and trusted his Word are necessarily excluding themselves from His peace and joy. It need not be so, but it is the choice each must make.


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## TheBishop (Apr 26, 2013)

gtparts said:


> Since this appears in the A/A/A forum, I take it that we are not referring to endorphins, the 'warm fuzzies', or the lack of inhibitions due to drug and alcohol use. The wording of the OP also leads one to disregard the idea of transient emotions.
> 
> That pretty much leaves a more substantial, permanent foundation  (please eloborate about such foundation) for the term 'happiness/happy'.
> 
> ...



Please eloborate on your definitions of peace, joy, and happiness.  

Your generalization above is broad, and is extrememly polluted with self righteousness. You make your statement as if being some authority on the subject of the human psyche and have the ability read minds.


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## ted_BSR (Apr 28, 2013)

gtparts said:


> Since this appears in the A/A/A forum, I take it that we are not referring to endorphins, the 'warm fuzzies', or the lack of inhibitions due to drug and alcohol use. The wording of the OP also leads one to disregard the idea of transient emotions.
> 
> That pretty much leaves a more substantial, permanent foundation for the term 'happiness/happy'.
> 
> ...



Well said.


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## mickbear (Apr 29, 2013)

i'm very happy,i have a wonderfull wife (of 23 years)great neighbors,friends and co-workers.a good full time job (of over 30 years),a good small business,nice house,boat,motorhome Ect..and have never been to church a day in my life.never once have i beleived in any religion,even though i'v read the most of the bible,some of the koran and some of the hindu Vedas i'v never felt anything inspiring from any of them .they are just books,thats all nothing more.none any more truthfull than the other.
 with that said,we have had several friends an neighbors over the years who are very religious and they are some of the most miserable people i have known.they allways have something going on in their lives that borders on chaos.they are allways telling us about how bad their lives are and all the bad things going on with them.its sad,but when you talk with them they say "its gods will".realy? was it gods will that your wife ran off with someone in your church,was it gods will that your husband had an affaire with one of his co-workers or that you lost your job  then your house,car and allmost everything you own?these and other stories i could tell are ture and happened to friends neighbors and co-workers.one of the most often asked questions of my wife and i is "how come ya'll are so happy,do everything together,never fuss and fight,get along so well and have done it sence high school" we tell them "we never let anyone or anything tell us how to be happy,we allready know how to be happy" you can be happy with out any god or other religious figure in your life.some people need to be told how to be happy,need to be told what happiness is,need someone to hold them by the hand and tell them how to be happy.
   i know what ture happiness is --- its a 55 year old 4' 11" brown eyed girl.


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## TripleXBullies (Apr 29, 2013)

That's a lie.. I Could never be happy with a girl that short!!

Just kidding Mick


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## jmharris23 (Apr 29, 2013)

Absolutely it can


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## gtparts (Apr 30, 2013)

> Originally Posted by gtparts View Post
> Since this appears in the A/A/A forum, I take it that we are not referring to endorphins, the 'warm fuzzies', or the lack of inhibitions due to drug and alcohol use. The wording of the OP also leads one to disregard the idea of transient emotions.
> 
> That pretty much leaves a more substantial, permanent foundation (please eloborate about such foundation) for the term 'happiness/happy'.
> ...



I'll try to elaborate.

Point 1: Emotions are temporary. The foundation I refer to is not based on feeling one way or another. It (the foundation I refer to) is based on a relationship. And not just a temporal one, but an eternal one. 

Point 2: My qualifications to be an observer of human action and expression are based upon several of my senses; sight, hearing, and touch. Most of daily life gives little insight into which persons are truly happy and which are not, yet do a credible job of concealing it. The most revealing test is how a person responds when he or she hits bottom. The crisis peels away the facade. "Squeeze" a person and see what comes out.

Point 3: The peace of God is unshakable and eternal. The peace that the world offers is predicated on circumstance and is temporary.

My definitions:
Peace - is contentment in spite of circumstance.

Joy - is a positive state of being that is based on a relationship with God.

Happiness - is a positive, but temporary, emotional response to favorable circumstances.

For the record, there is nothing about me that is righteous, but as a matter of God's grace, I am covered with the righteousness of Jesus. Can't boast in myself, but I will most certainly boast in Him.

Finally, I have seen Christians, atheists, and others in crisis and in most every case there is a distinct difference in the way they respond. The anomalies are few and usually can be attributed to Christians new in there faith.


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## TheBishop (Apr 30, 2013)

gtparts said:


> I'll try to elaborate.
> 
> Point 1: Emotions are temporary. The foundation I refer to is not based on feeling one way or another. It (the foundation I refer to) is based on a relationship. And not just a temporal one, but an eternal one.
> 
> ...



What other super powers do you posses?


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## gtparts (May 1, 2013)

_I'll try to elaborate.

Point 1: Emotions are temporary. The foundation I refer to is not based  on feeling one way or another. It (the foundation I refer to) is based  on a relationship. And not just a temporal one, but an eternal one. 

A relationship usually entails some sort of  interaction.  What interaction do you have with this diety? How can you  show it, so that a casual observer may witness?  

Before I answer, it may be that, beyond the obvious differences between you and me, it would worthwhile to admit that our beliefs and our acceptance of spiritual things are light years apart. Most of that relationship is a matter of spiritual communion, apparently beyond your experience. It usually centers on worship. It is evidenced in my life and that of others in many ways, including answered prayer, another thing you know little of, experientially,... and you deny, even in face of millions of personal testimonies.
Simple observation assumes that spiritual things can be apprehended by those who may not be equipped to do so. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. In short no, that is not generally how God works. (Any lack of understanding on your part is not unexpected on my part.) 




Point 2: My qualifications to be an observer of human action and  expression are based upon several of my senses; sight, hearing, and  touch. Most of daily life gives little insight into which persons are  truly happy and which are not, yet do a credible job of concealing it.  The most revealing test is how a person responds when he or she hits  bottom. The crisis peels away the facade. "Squeeze" a person and see  what comes out.

How do you go about such "squeezing" so you can pass  judgment?  I too, have the same qualifications that you noted, and  disagree with your premises, how do we place weight on each others view?   What traits do the responses to hitting bottom do people with a  "relationships" UNIQUELY posses? 

Squeezing is not my job, but life in a fallen world brings into most lives, at one time or another, some pressurized circumstances that reveal character or the lack thereof, some spiritual strength or the lack thereof. Further, judgment involves rendering a punishment. Not my job either. I do have the authority to assess the spiritual condition of others and seek to move them to a relationship with God. I use the same criteria to examine my own standing before God. As for unique traits, the most obvious is relying on God, based on a personal relationship with him. The redeemed behave differently. 


Point 3: The peace of God is unshakable and eternal. The peace that the  world offers is predicated on circumstance and is temporary. Sounds like something out of the diary of Jim Jones.

Actually, Jones lifted what is true and good from Scripture and twisted it to accomplish what his deranged mind sought to do.


My definitions:
Peace - is contentment in spite of circumstance.
Many posses that without beleiving as you do.

Never said it was unique to a group or individual. Transcendentalists and those in meditation sometimes experience some measure of peace, but it falls short of God's peace.


Joy - is a positive state of being that is based on a relationship with God.
How do we know the voices in your head are god?

'We' don't. The 'voices in your (my)head' don't exist. What you refer to is a mental schism. The communion of spirits is NOT physical perception (again, something you are not familiar with).

Happiness - is a positive, but temporary, emotional response to favorable circumstances.
Then a simple yes to the OP would have worked.

You are the one who asked for my definition. Just elaborating as you requested.  

 For the record, there is nothing about me that is righteous, but as a  matter of God's grace, I am covered with the righteousness of Jesus.  Can't boast in myself, but I will most certainly boast in Him.
No,no, its not me really, its Jesus being righteous through me.... 

Wondered when you would start mocking Him. Again, you lived down to my expectations. No problem,... Scripture says to expect it.


Finally, I have seen Christians, atheists, and others in crisis and in  most every case there is a distinct difference in the way they respond.  The anomalies are few and usually can be attributed to Christians new in  there faith.
Example please.

You seem to be somewhat biased, but why don't you  take a stab at describing any difference between Christians and  non-Christian responses to crisis. Can you set aside your bias and be objective? Perhaps it might be interesting to tell what a non-believer does when he or she finds themselves in over their heads, can't quite come up with a solution to a crisis situation, or is just confused about a major decision that has crucial implications.


_
 			 		 	 	 What other super powers do you posses? 		
Really? Checked back on my post and saw no claim to having superpowers of any description.You seem to be somewhat biased, but why don't you take a stab at describing any difference between Christians and non-Christian responses to crisis. Can you set aside your bias and be objective?


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## TheBishop (May 2, 2013)

> _Before I answer, it may be that, beyond the obvious differences between you and me, it would worthwhile to admit thatour beliefs and our acceptance of spiritual things are light years apart. Most of that relationship is a matter of spiritual communion, apparently beyond your experience. It usually centers on worship. It is evidenced in my life and that of others in many ways, including answered prayer, another thing you know little of, experientially,... and you deny, even in face of millions of personal testimonies.There are millions of testimonies about space aliens and werewolves, I don't believe them either, how about you?Simple observation assumes that spiritual things can be apprehended by those who may not be equipped to do so. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. In short no, that is not generally how God works. (Any lack of understanding on your part is not unexpected on my part.) _


_ 


Self righteous piety aside, there is so much wrong with this statement its laughable. It so easy to say to call my doubt of your un-provable "relationship", and your personal knowledge of the unknowable, lack of understanding. 





Squeezing is not my job, but life in a fallen world brings into most lives, at one time or another, some pressurized circumstances that reveal character or the lack thereof, some spiritual strength or the lack thereof. Further, judgment involves rendering a punishment.No it doesn't, judgment is merely making an assessment.  Not my job either. I do have the authority to assess the spiritual condition That's hilarious.  Were do you get such authority? Just because you say so, please. of others and seek to move them to a relationship with God. I use the same criteria to examine my own standing before God. As for unique traits, the most obvious is relying on God, based on a personal relationship with him. The redeemed behave differently.  

Click to expand...


What are the tell tales signs of a Christian under those circumstance Vs everyone else?





Actually, Jones lifted what is true and good from Scripture and twisted it to accomplish what his deranged mind sought to do.

Click to expand...


How do we know your not the one twisting?





Never said it was unique to a group or individual. Transcendentalists and those in meditation sometimes experience some measure of peace, but it falls short of God's peace.

Click to expand...


Subject to individual interpretation, unless you have gtparts authority. 




'We' don't. The 'voices in your (my)head' don't exist. What you refer to is a mental schism. The communion of spirits is NOT physical perception (again, something you are not familiar with).

Click to expand...


Again confusing doubt, lack of understanding.




Wondered when you would start mocking Him. Again, you lived down to my expectations. No problem,... Scripture says to expect it.


Click to expand...


Make no mistake, I am mocking you, not him. 




You seem to be somewhat biased, but why don't you  take a stab at describing any difference between Christians and  non-Christian responses to crisis. Can you set aside your bias and be objective? Perhaps it might be interesting to tell what a non-believer does when he or she finds themselves in over their heads, can't quite come up with a solution to a crisis situation, or is just confused about a major decision that has crucial implications.  

Click to expand...



I am not the one claiming special insight to the emotions of my fellow man.  That is something you stated.  I am not being bias when I say you are full it. I being honest as an objective observer.  You have used nothing but broad generalizations and make statements of fact based on belief. 





Really? Checked back on my post and saw no claim to having superpowers of any description.You seem to be somewhat biased, but why don't you take a stab at describing any difference between Christians and non-Christian responses to crisis. Can you set aside your bias and be objective?  

Click to expand...



I think you need to go back and read and see who is truly being bias here. Your so bias you can't even see the broad range of the qualifications of the question your asking. Who do you consider Christian? All denominations? (that would beg the question why the need for denominations). Do all non-your idea of a Christian, act differently in the face of a crisis? Muslim act the same as atheist? 

I think people are different. I think people that consider themselves of the same belief are different.  They ALL will act different under, different circumstances.  To claim to see a difference between them just because of what you believe is pompous and absurd. The first clues to this are the different denominations, and the different views on what it means to be Christian, just look at the varying views of "Christians" on this board._


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2013)

Without God? Sure. But what about without leprechauns? That's the real mystery.


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## ambush80 (May 3, 2013)

atlashunter said:


> Without God? Sure. But what about without leprechauns? That's the real mystery.



You'll never know REAL happiness without leprechauns.


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## JB0704 (May 3, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> You'll never know REAL happiness without leprechauns.



....and beer.


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## ambush80 (May 3, 2013)

JB0704 said:


> ....and beer.



U mean leprechaun pee?


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## JB0704 (May 3, 2013)

ambush80 said:


> U mean leprechaun pee?



.....no, that comes after he drinks the beer.


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## SemperFiDawg (May 3, 2013)

Can happiness exist without God?  Of course it can.  Can man live without God.  Of course he can.  I think the better question is What does God add, if anything, to ones life?  The answers to that question is more challenging and sure to be more profound.


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## atlashunter (May 3, 2013)

Added two dead children to that couples life who decided it was a better idea to depend on prayer than doctors. I'd suggest sticking with the leprechauns. Much more benign.


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## StriperAddict (May 3, 2013)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Can happiness exist without God? Of course it can. Can man live without God. Of course he can. I think the better question is What does God add, if anything, to ones life? The answers to that question is more challenging and sure to be more profound.


 
Very well said.


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