# Plot Watcher?????Pros and Cons



## albridges (Aug 21, 2010)

Whats the groups thoughts of this Cam


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## 2tines (Aug 21, 2010)

a friend bought one friday, i am going to play with it monday and let you know then.


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## farmasis (Aug 21, 2010)

Cons: I wish I could cut a longer snipet of shots. 200 pics are the most to save as a seperate file for uploading/emailing. That is all I can think of as a negative so far.

Pros: super easy set up, so many uses, great pic quality, the software that comes with the camera is awesome and so user friendly


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## billyblob (Aug 22, 2010)

great tool need longer battery life


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## wmahunter (Aug 24, 2010)

Poor battery life. 
Camera has good potential but don't like the "one button" control...is hard to tell for sure if it is recording.
Mounting pole that comes with it is about useless.


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## farmasis (Aug 24, 2010)

I did not list poor battery life...because when I think of poor battery life, I feel I am faulting the product for inefficiency. I typically get 9000+ pics/day and at least 5 days out of 4 AA batteries. My 8 gig drive only holds about that anyway, so I am limited to that.

I guess it is all about perspective and application. I can put 4 D's in my trail cam and get 600-800 pics in 2-3 weeks or 4 AA in my plot watcher and get 50-60,000 pics in 5-6 days. I don't think you can ask much more from 4 AA's.


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## wmahunter (Aug 25, 2010)

farmasis said:


> I did not list poor battery life...because when I think of poor battery life, I feel I am faulting the product for inefficiency. I typically get 9000+ pics/day and at least 5 days out of 4 AA batteries. My 8 gig drive only holds about that anyway, so I am limited to that.
> 
> I guess it is all about perspective and application. I can put 4 D's in my trail cam and get 600-800 pics in 2-3 weeks or 4 AA in my plot watcher and get 50-60,000 pics in 5-6 days. I don't think you can ask much more from 4 AA's.



I get similar battery life in my Plotwatcher but I am comparing that to my Bushnell Trophy Cam which gets 1 full year from 8 AA batteries (just changed them after 11-1/2 months). Almost all of the BTC pics have game in them and almost all of the PW pics do not. 

I realize that the cameras have very different purposes and methods to achieve those purposes but I still am not happy having to replace batteries each week....those $'s will add up faster than you think. I actually went ahead and modified mine to connect to an external 6v battery. The PW folks NEED to add that option if they want to keep happy customers IMO.

I like the PW camera though and expect to get a lot of useful information from it.


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## bowtie (Aug 25, 2010)

i like the concept....just hard to spend that for what it is....i already know where they coming and going to...i just put up my homebrew...


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## shdw633 (Aug 25, 2010)

I would like to see more timing options.  5 and 10 second intervals is fine but I wouldn't mind 20 and 30  second intervals as well as I would be able to get more pics and a longer time frame out the the camera.  That way I could leave the camera and see what has happened over a month as opposed to just one week.


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## LETMGRO (Aug 25, 2010)

wmahunter said:


> I get similar battery life in my Plotwatcher but I am comparing that to my Bushnell Trophy Cam which gets 1 full year from 8 AA batteries (just changed them after 11-1/2 months). Almost all of the BTC pics have game in them and almost all of the PW pics do not.
> 
> I realize that the cameras have very different purposes and methods to achieve those purposes but I still am not happy having to replace batteries each week....those $'s will add up faster than you think. I actually went ahead and modified mine to connect to an external 6v battery. The PW folks NEED to add that option if they want to keep happy customers IMO.
> 
> ...



I'm one of the PW folks, and let me tell you, we hear you regarding the external power source. It's the number 1 requested addition when speaking to folks who've purchased the cameras.  I have 4 prototypes in the field now with this addition. It could be available before the rut gets here, but based on my experience in manufacturing anything, it'll take longer than that.

In the meantime, there are several things you can do that may dramatically improve the battery life you're currently getting.  First....Use one of the recommended USBs from our website. USBs have dramatically different data transfer rates. (I didn't know any of this during field tests last year. I just happened to buy good USBs from Walmart and Office Depot to do the testing.)The faster the camera can transfer the image to the USB, the faster the camera can shut down between pics and save power.  Second...Upgrade your camera to the newest firmware via a download from our website.  With the new firmware, the camera is capable of removing that slow USB variable from the equation 6 out of 7 times it cuts on. This will significantly improve your battery life without any external power. In fact, in our tests the new firmware increased picture counts by 60 - 100% compared to the original firmware, using the same cameras, batteries and USB. The only change was the uploaded firmware.

For the guy who wants the camera to take pics at a longer interval,  it can take pics every 30 seconds if you want it to, using the custom setting. It can also take pics every 3 seconds on the same setting...... You choose.

We're trying our best to give folks the very best product for the money on the market.  In an effort to do that, we will always offer free upgrades to both the firmware and the software, if we create an improvement for either. Routinely check our website for current versions available, and if your version is older than the one online then upgrade it and make your unit better. The only way you'll ever pay for an upgrade is if there's an actual component change like a different lens.
This camera will change how you hunt if you use it. My trailcams have never directed me to or away from a particular stand. They have directed me to a particular property though. If you own one, ask yourself this season, "How many times did I sit or not sit in a stand I'd planned to hunt b/c of the videos I saw on that PlotWatcher?".  It altered my plans on just about every hunt last year and I had my best season ever.

Thanks to all of you who have already got one. Don't ever hesitate to call our office if you have an idea for an improvement (706-256-2578). I'm not the smartest guy, so I won't think of all the things that thousands of you will.


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## farmasis (Aug 25, 2010)

LETMGRO said:


> I'm not the smartest guy,


 
I can vouch for him....


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## Bighunt37 (Aug 25, 2010)

I got two of them at the buckarama 2 weeks ago and i love them both the only thing i dont like is the one button control to hard to tell if your turning it on and off sometimes but overall very pleased love the software


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## bowtie (Aug 25, 2010)

what is the price of one?


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## Grimes25 (Aug 25, 2010)

Here is the link to the firmware letmgrwo was writing about. http://www.day6outdoors.com/content/plotwatcher_tlv/software.php

Bowtie suggested is $199.99, we got in our second batch and down to 8 left at $174.

Great reports form our clietns so far.  They work well for what they are advertised to do.  They are for hunting, not for aging or scoring a buck.  You see movement in a larger field of view than ever before with a trail cam.  It is nto replacing a trail cam for survey.  However if you have questions what tree that deer is walking into the field under- this is worth its weight in gold.


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## j_seph (Aug 25, 2010)

I have used mine once in a boxstand and got several vehicles coming in. I had it set on 3 sec shots to run all day. I put it near my trail camera to verify that the shots of deer I was getting were coming from where they appeared to be in the still pics on my moultrie. Here's a pro, they were not coming from the direction that I thought they were. Once again it was set on 3 sec, all day. The batteries lasted about 2 1/2 days tops. Hated to go that quick and all day but I got a good buck that has shown at daylight, noonish, and 3PM. Would love to see an external power source or a hack for one.
Would also like to have better clarity when zooming in. Close pics are crisp and clear. When I put it in my stand I could see the liscence plate but there was no way to clear it up to read at 15 yards.
All though I love it


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## shdw633 (Aug 26, 2010)

Here is another of these types of cameras on the market.  They will run between $60 and $80 and I am not sure of the side to side comparaisons at this point.

http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=151

It also seems that this camera can have an external battery used with it as well.


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## Grimes25 (Aug 26, 2010)

http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=153
this is the side by side comparision.  The plotwatcher software is much different and superior to the garden cam.


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## j_seph (Aug 26, 2010)

Is there any way to set the quality of the pictures


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## shdw633 (Aug 26, 2010)

Grimes25 said:


> http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=153
> this is the side by side comparision.  The plotwatcher software is much different and superior to the garden cam.



How so?  I am not being condesending as I am in the market for a couple of these cameras and I am trying to figure out which way to go.  I am trying to see the value difference's between the two (i.e. bigger camera 4.0 as opposed to 1.5, how is the software superior, zoom, etc) and can find little to no information about these cameras.  Even if you go out to the websites they offer little information as to what the makeup of these are.  It appears to me that the Windscape Plantcam has the same to offer as the Plotwatcher and yet it is only $60 shipped to your door!  So if you could explain how the Plotwatcher outperforms it that would be fantastic information for me.  I have read all three of the reviews for the PW, the PWClone and the plantcam and they all seem to perform well but they still seem to be under review.


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## Grimes25 (Aug 26, 2010)

from reading the review "The Game Finder software (included) is a big plus for this device. It was easy to install and during my initial tests was a big plus over the Brinno Garden cams version."  

Letmgrow you have any comments?  I apologize still learning myself I just made sure to get my hands on them for my clients and save them some money.  So far all good reports.  CLient in Indiana is pumped using it to see his goose patterns.  He is booked solid on early goose season and now knows how they fly in and where they land and at what time. 

I do not think you can change the pic quality.


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## j_seph (Aug 26, 2010)

j_seph said:


> Is there any way to set the quality of the pictures


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## wmahunter (Aug 26, 2010)

shdw633 said:


> How so?  I am not being condesending as I am in the market for a couple of these cameras and I am trying to figure out which way to go.  I am trying to see the value difference's between the two (i.e. bigger camera 4.0 as opposed to 1.5, how is the software superior, zoom, etc) and can find little to no information about these cameras.  Even if you go out to the websites they offer little information as to what the makeup of these are.  It appears to me that the Windscape Plantcam has the same to offer as the Plotwatcher and yet it is only $60 shipped to your door!  So if you could explain how the Plotwatcher outperforms it that would be fantastic information for me.  I have read all three of the reviews for the PW, the PWClone and the plantcam and they all seem to perform well but they still seem to be under review.



PW cam has slightly easier controls on the viewer software but as far as I can tell it actually does only one thing that the Brinno GardenWatch cam viewer won't do.  It lets you draw a box around the area you want scanned for movement and then will run through the entire video only stopping when there is movement detected in the box. The gardenwatch camera also scans for movement but looks at the whole picture rather than just the area inside a box. It is useful to be able to "box out" the trees at the top of the pictures because they move alot in the wind and will trip the "movement sensor" in the viewing software. If you watch the entire video then this difference does not come into play.

PW folks claim that the picture quality is better but I have not found that to be the case.  My PW cam pics are possibly slightly lower quality than my Gardenwatch pics but hard to tell...certainly not better on the PW.

BTW, I got my GW cam new on ebay for less than $130 including shipping. The GW cam also comes with a 2g thumb drive and batteries while the PW comes with neither.  IMO there needs to be more difference in the two to justify the difference in price.


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## shdw633 (Aug 26, 2010)

Grimes25 said:


> from reading the review "The Game Finder software (included) is a big plus for this device. It was easy to install and during my initial tests was a big plus over the Brinno Garden cams version."
> 
> Letmgrow you have any comments?  I apologize still learning myself I just made sure to get my hands on them for my clients and save them some money.  So far all good reports.  CLient in Indiana is pumped using it to see his goose patterns.  He is booked solid on early goose season and now knows how they fly in and where they land and at what time.
> 
> I do not think you can change the pic quality.



I can say for certain that you have the least expensive PW on the net.  The cheapest I have found one for other than you is $189 and that was on ebay.


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## j_seph (Aug 26, 2010)

Here is a recent video taken at close range in the woods as well as a picture off of the PW camera. I had another deer come across the hill just behind the clump of trees at the top right and could not zoom in to tell what it was.






<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ncc9il3K5BQ?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ncc9il3K5BQ?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Walkin Hunter (Aug 27, 2010)

Seems it is all depending on your taste. Just like any other new camera, they will work out the kinks. Then it all depends on what you like. Gotta weigh the pros and cons and get the camera to fit your taste. I personally like the way it works for the price.


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## callaway (Aug 27, 2010)

I love mine.  I need 2 more.


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## Possum (Aug 29, 2010)

I only get four days battery life using Energizer rechargables. Thats set on 5 second intervals and 4 hour mid-day shut off. Picture quality is good out in open but hard to see in darker thicker woods. I am happy with camera but wouldnt buy another unless they improve features. Night video would be a huge plus and longer battery life.


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## farmasis (Aug 29, 2010)

Possum said:


> I only get four days battery life using Energizer rechargables. Thats set on 5 second intervals and 4 hour mid-day shut off. Picture quality is good out in open but hard to see in darker thicker woods. I am happy with camera but wouldnt buy another unless they improve features. Night video would be a huge plus and longer battery life.


 
night video seems impossible...and not really what this camera was designed for...IMO.


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## Grimes25 (Aug 30, 2010)

sdw633 thanks for the comment.  I make a little money on these products.  I really trying to get folks to recognize what we do.  Im not a store you can walk into and hold the product.  However if you do your own research let us know what you want then I can get you a price.  Most cases saves you over big box store.  Our website is very basic. www.swlci.com  it is general in what  we can get. thanks Callaway contact us if you like. Im down to 5 in inventory at the moment. 

I will continue to do my research on the PW vs. others.  I got 8 days this last run with 5 hour delay and 10 sec.  I also just downloaded recent firmware update. Again here is the link to the update. http://www.day6outdoors.com/content/plotwatcher_tlv/firmware.php


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## solocamslayer (Aug 30, 2010)

thx for posting Grimes, you do have the best prices around. these will become more popular as more people hear about them.


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## albridges (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback gonna save up some money and get one


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## Possum (Sep 5, 2010)

farmasis said:


> night video seems impossible...and not really what this camera was designed for...IMO.



I dont know why you say night video would be impossible. A buddy of mine has an inferred surveillance camea that takes night video just fine. I think he paid 100 dollars for it. And just what is camera designed for in your opinion? Wouldnt night video be an improvement? 

BTW I sent my Plot Watcher back. Only got one day of battery life last two times I put it out and Im using good batteries so thats not the problem.  I think that I just got a bad apple since I dont hear anybody else saying they have similar experience with battery life.


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## wmahunter (Sep 5, 2010)

I would like night pics also.  No reason it couldn't be included but would need better battery life or external battery to make it a reality.  Could even use an external led flash so they wouldn't even have to change the case shape (although there is nothing special about this shape other than it was already in production)

Fact is, this camera is simply a camo version of the garden camera with some fancy tweeks to the viewing software. Obviously not developed from the ground up or I bet it would have included some night pic capability. Garden cameras don't need night pics since flowers are out in the daylight and don't have higher activity in the "majic hours" at dawn and dusk.

LETMGRO, I like the general theory of these cameras but you guys would be smart to be working on another version actually developed for deer hunters.

If you don't come out with a model with that feature then I bet someone else will and give you a run for your money.


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## j_seph (Sep 5, 2010)

Don't know about night pics cause these are deer that I can't shoot legally, however it would be nice for the camera to come on an hour before and stay on an hour after daylight and dark. I got pictures of a decent deer on trail cam at 8:10 but the plotwatcher had done quit hunting for the evening.


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## farmasis (Sep 6, 2010)

Possum said:


> I dont know why you say night video would be impossible. A buddy of mine has an inferred surveillance camea that takes night video just fine. I think he paid 100 dollars for it. And just what is camera designed for in your opinion? Wouldnt night video be an improvement?
> 
> BTW I sent my Plot Watcher back. Only got one day of battery life last two times I put it out and Im using good batteries so thats not the problem. I think that I just got a bad apple since I dont hear anybody else saying they have similar experience with battery life.


 
This camera was designed to scout large areas. It would be impossible to have enough IR to shoot an area 100's of yards long and 100's of yards wide.

I think this camera was designed to help pattern deer and scout their movement during legal shooting hours.


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## wmahunter (Sep 6, 2010)

farmasis said:


> This camera was designed to scout large areas. It would be impossible to have enough IR to shoot an area 100's of yards long and 100's of yards wide.
> 
> I think this camera was designed to help pattern deer and scout their movement during legal shooting hours.



Problem with that is this camera doesn't start filming until a while after legal hours start and stops filming before legal hours end.  My other regular trail cameras switch to the "night lens" when the light gets too low for daylight pics and still take good pics for a while in the low ambient light before the flash is needed.  These dim light minutes seem to be when there is the most daylight game activity....but of course the most overall activity is still after dark.

I could live with a lesser field of view after dark and would sure love to have the camera still shooting in those early and late hours/minutes around dark.

Please understand, I am not bashing this camera. I like the overall theory of this camera, have 3 of them, and find them very useful however I still don't think there is anything wrong with improving a good thing to make it even more useful.  I don't think I am asking for anything that the average deer hunter and trail camera owner would not like. 

Like I said before, if they don't do it someone else will (and will get my business)


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## shdw633 (Sep 7, 2010)

wmahunter said:


> Problem with that is this camera doesn't start filming until a while after legal hours start and stops filming before legal hours end.  My other regular trail cameras switch to the "night lens" when the light gets too low for daylight pics and still take good pics for a while in the low ambient light before the flash is needed.  These dim light minutes seem to be when there is the most daylight game activity....but of course the most overall activity is still after dark.
> 
> I could live with a lesser field of view after dark and would sure love to have the camera still shooting in those early and late hours/minutes around dark.
> 
> ...



It would be great if they could put out remote IR's with motion sensors that you could distribute throughout your viewing area.  Keep in mind I am just trying to think outside the box as I understand what WMAhunter is referring too.  It should not be difficult to blend two cameras into one.  A plotwatcher by day and an IR trail camera by night.


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## farmasis (Sep 7, 2010)

wmahunter said:


> Problem with that is this camera doesn't start filming until a while after legal hours start and stops filming before legal hours end. My other regular trail cameras switch to the "night lens" when the light gets too low for daylight pics and still take good pics for a while in the low ambient light before the flash is needed. These dim light minutes seem to be when there is the most daylight game activity....but of course the most overall activity is still after dark.
> 
> I could live with a lesser field of view after dark and would sure love to have the camera still shooting in those early and late hours/minutes around dark.
> 
> ...


 
I hear ya..an hour or so before and after, even limited, would be a benefit.


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## LETMGRO (Sep 11, 2010)

First of all, thanks to all you guys for helping us have a successful first year with the PlotWatcher. Like someone said, we're working to make this camera better and work out any kinks we find along the way.
wmahunter....I hear you regarding the use of a combo type camera. timelapse by day and PIR by night. I think you're right. That's where this is headed IMO. It'll most likely be separate components b/c of the power constraints. 
I disagree with you on one thing. This camera was designed for deer hunters by a life-long deer hunter of 35 years. I know you're referencing the gardencam b/c  it's the platform we started with. That plastic lens in the GW cam didn't suffice for me b/c when the weather turns colder the quality of the pic declines. You haven't had a chance to see that yet since it's still 95 degrees. You also need the pic interval well below what the GW cam allows. When you put the GWcam in thick woods, you might get 3 pics of a buck moving thru and you'll never know if it's a buck b/c every pic has him behind brush or trees. The PW allows that interval to be significantly shorter to multiply your pic count of that animal to give you a better chance of determining what it is.
Regarding the software comparisons, I'd still argue there's no comparison. I analyzed thousands of hours of video last year during the prototyping phase of development using the GW software b/c we were developing our software. Being able to play the video back at speeds up to 30 frames / sec  significantly shortens video review time as compared to the GW software. Being able to stop the video by just clicking the large image will save you from blowing by what you're looking at as opposed to having to have your cursor over that small pause button of the GW software. Being able to scroll thru pic-by-pic by rolling that wheel on your mouse is so much faster than clicking the forward and reverse button of the GW software. The list goes on and on at how our software will make the user experience better with our video. It's still my opinion that you could give the cameras away and sell the software. 
Regarding the Wingscapes camera, just wait to till you use Windows Media Player to analyze an entire day of video. It'll frustrate the heck out of you. There's a big difference in resolution as well. Because it's a higher MP camera, it records in VGA resolution so that the files sizes aren't enormous. VGA isn't as effective if the subject is over 50 yards from the camera. You really need HD resolution.
Keep in mind that I'm biased towards the PlotWatcher. But this thing is incredibly effective at doing what it's designed to do and it is designed for hunters.


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## wmahunter (Sep 11, 2010)

LETMGRO said:


> That plastic lens in the GW cam didn't suffice for me b/c when the weather turns colder the quality of the pic declines. You haven't had a chance to see that yet since it's still 95 degrees. You also need the pic interval well below what the GW cam allows. When you put the GWcam in thick woods, you might get 3 pics of a buck moving thru and you'll never know if it's a buck b/c every pic has him behind brush or trees. The PW allows that interval to be significantly shorter to multiply your pic count of that animal to give you a better chance of determining what it is.
> Regarding the software comparisons, I'd still argue there's no comparison.  Being able to play the video back at speeds up to 30 frames / sec  significantly shortens video review time as compared to the GW software. Being able to stop the video by just clicking the large image will save you from blowing by what you're looking at as opposed to having to have your cursor over that small pause button of the GW software. Being able to scroll thru pic-by-pic by rolling that wheel on your mouse is so much faster than clicking the forward and reverse button of the GW software.



Lens quality:  I will wait for cold weather to pass judgment on that but for now both cameras seem to take equal quality pics...Neither are as good as I would like but both are usable.

Pic interval:  The GWC allows any interval setting I wish to use with the custom setting. I normally run them at 10 sec. but have run them as low as 5 second intervals.  There is no mid-day sleep setting on the GWC but I don't use that setting on yours anyway because deer move then also.

Player software:  Yours is easier to use and the larger control buttons are nice. That said, they both still do the same things other than the GW viewer doesn't let me box out unwanted areas for scanning.  Also, you are incorrect on the scrolling...I absolutely can scroll frame by frame with the mouse wheel in the GW viewer. 

I realize you are biased toward the PW and you should be. It is a good product and I hope you get rich selling them!  I just think you need to offer quite a bit more than nicer buttons on the viewer to justify the price difference...you see, the rest of us aren't biased toward the PW and we are the ones who will be spending our hard earned money on the product that we feel gives us the most bang for the buck.  The jury is still out on that one IMO but by making a few upgrades you could make that decision much easier for us.


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## shdw633 (Sep 12, 2010)

LETMGRO said:


> First of all, thanks to all you guys for helping us have a successful first year with the PlotWatcher. Like someone said, we're working to make this camera better and work out any kinks we find along the way.
> wmahunter....I hear you regarding the use of a combo type camera. timelapse by day and PIR by night. I think you're right. That's where this is headed IMO. It'll most likely be separate components b/c of the power constraints.
> I disagree with you on one thing. This camera was designed for deer hunters by a life-long deer hunter of 35 years. I know you're referencing the gardencam b/c  it's the platform we started with. That plastic lens in the GW cam didn't suffice for me b/c when the weather turns colder the quality of the pic declines. You haven't had a chance to see that yet since it's still 95 degrees. You also need the pic interval well below what the GW cam allows. When you put the GWcam in thick woods, you might get 3 pics of a buck moving thru and you'll never know if it's a buck b/c every pic has him behind brush or trees. The PW allows that interval to be significantly shorter to multiply your pic count of that animal to give you a better chance of determining what it is.
> Regarding the software comparisons, I'd still argue there's no comparison. I analyzed thousands of hours of video last year during the prototyping phase of development using the GW software b/c we were developing our software. Being able to play the video back at speeds up to 30 frames / sec  significantly shortens video review time as compared to the GW software. Being able to stop the video by just clicking the large image will save you from blowing by what you're looking at as opposed to having to have your cursor over that small pause button of the GW software. Being able to scroll thru pic-by-pic by rolling that wheel on your mouse is so much faster than clicking the forward and reverse button of the GW software. The list goes on and on at how our software will make the user experience better with our video. It's still my opinion that you could give the cameras away and sell the software.
> ...



I have the Wingscape Plant Cam and use it with the Moultrie Solar Battery (never change batteries) and an 8 gb card and get thousands of pics that I simply load into the free, downloadable, Microsoft Windows Movie Maker and I have watched 6 hours worth of pics in less than 20 minutes and it too allows me to stop and see individual pics.  

The camera is not HD but does have 4 settings for different resolutions.  I have just started using the camera and so far am extremely happy with it as it does exactly what I would hope it would do.  

I only have $110 in both the solar battery pack (amazon) and the PlantCam (also Amazon).  I have tried to see the $130 difference between the Plotwatcher ($190+/-) and the PlantCam ($60 +/-, Amazon) and can't see the software being that much better than Windows Movie Maker.  I realize you have motion detection but with the trees moving that kinda nullifies that function.  With all the features the Plantcam has (external battery capability, 4 levels of resolution and multiple time settings) someone will really have to show me where the extra $130 is at in the Plotwatcher, again I just put 5000 pics in Windows Movie Maker and it did the same thing that you are saying your software does short of the motion detection.  

As far as VGA vs HD I don't agree with the need for the HD as most of the pics are more than likely going to be at a distance and therefore definition of the animal is going to be minimal at best for either camera.

As WMAHunter stated I appreciate you are trying to sell the plotwatcher to everyone but as I stated I can't see paying $130 more for a camera that for all intensive purpose does the same thing that the PlantCam does.


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## farmasis (Sep 12, 2010)

I love the ability to zoom and play the vids in a zoom setting. As far as image quality of HD not being necessary because the animals are often far away...would not that be the reason HD would be important? Seems the closer the animal is would make less difference.







I had 3 does pass through this creek bottom and was able to zoom and play video and identify them all as does.

I am glad you are happy with yours and feel you got a bargain. I am with mine and feel I got a great scouting tool that is worth the money.


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## shdw633 (Sep 13, 2010)

farmasis said:


> I had 3 does pass through this creek bottom and was able to zoom and play video and identify them all as does.



So can I with mine.  Believe me I am not faulting anyone who has one, I think if your happy with it then that is great, I don't expect anyone who has paid for one to jump on here and say they made a mistake in buying one.  I also know that there is a lot of PR spin going on in this thread with the people who are involved with the Plotwatcher and no doubt his friends and sales reps are helping as well.  I just want everyone who is reading these posts to have as much information as possible in order to make an informed decision, especially in this economy where every dollar counts and as the original poster asked the pros and cons it is my opinion that the biggest con of the plotwatcher is the price, not that I am thinking the price should be in line with the Plantcam but at nearly $200 it needs to bring more to the table than it currently is otherwise it is my opinion that it is way overpriced and I would think the people behind the plotwatcher would want this type of input as well, but then again you know what they say about opinions.


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## Grimes25 (Sep 13, 2010)

I would have to disagree with the statement about PR.  The answers have been very honest and forthcoming.  The discussions on a cheaper option are well stated but when one tries to openly answer to defend the cam and justify the added cost it appears as PR- not true. It is hard to describe in writing all of the advantages of the PW.  However how about some credit how often can you get a developer to chime in with informative discussion.  Lets thanks letemgrow for the information.  One thing to consider is your time in this matter both in viewing the video and learning how to use it.  The Plotwatcher is so simple to use.  Also consider not everyone sells this system at $200 so not a completely fair comparison.   To each his own but please do not try to mention this as simply PR spin and scare away the guy with the most information.


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## shdw633 (Sep 13, 2010)

Grimes25 said:


> I would have to disagree with the statement about PR.  The answers have been very honest and forthcoming.  The discussions on a cheaper option are well stated but when one tries to openly answer to defend the cam and justify the added cost it appears as PR- not true. It is hard to describe in writing all of the advantages of the PW.  However how about some credit how often can you get a developer to chime in with informative discussion.  Lets thanks letemgrow for the information.  One thing to consider is your time in this matter both in viewing the video and learning how to use it.  The Plotwatcher is so simple to use.  Also consider not everyone sells this system at $200 so not a completely fair comparison.   To each his own but please do not try to mention this as simply PR spin and scare away the guy with the most information.



So what you are saying is that you and Letemgrow have nothing to gain by the information you have given?  And I didn't say $200, I said $190 and isn't that what you are selling them for?  Instead of PR would sales pitch be a better wording?  Why is it so hard to put it in words what this camera can do more than what it's competition can do, business does that everyday.  I am not dishing the product, I think the product has a lot to offer but I am trying to be forthright in my opinions, HD camera and a slightly better than Movie Maker software doesn't add up to $130.  Plus, you have to say that some of those that have responded here have a personal gain in it's success and that's okay because it's a forum, just like any other means of communication when you are trying to get your product out, but to say it is not PR, please.  As far as the developer chiming in, that's great, but again wouldn't it be in his interest to do so since that's how he is making money?

You want a downright, honest opinion, then send me one to try side by side with my Plantcams and I will try them side by side and send you back the unit when I am done.  I will then get on this board and give you my honest opinion as to the worth of the Plotwatcher over the Plantcam, otherwise I gotta tell you I am not spending the extra $130 just to find out.


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## wmahunter (Sep 13, 2010)

Grimes25 said:


> I would have to disagree with the statement about PR.  The answers have been very honest and forthcoming.  The discussions on a cheaper option are well stated but when one tries to openly answer to defend the cam and justify the added cost it appears as PR- not true. It is hard to describe in writing all of the advantages of the PW.  However how about some credit how often can you get a developer to chime in with informative discussion.  Lets thanks letemgrow for the information.  One thing to consider is your time in this matter both in viewing the video and learning how to use it.  The Plotwatcher is so simple to use.  Also consider not everyone sells this system at $200 so not a completely fair comparison.   To each his own but please do not try to mention this as simply PR spin and scare away the guy with the most information.



I agree and have no problem with the developer plugging his product. He has been very open in discussing the comparisons with other similar cameras.




shdw633 said:


> You want a downright, honest opinion, then send me one to try side by side with my Plantcams and I will try them side by side and send you back the unit when I am done.  I will then get on this board and give you my honest opinion as to the worth of the Plotwatcher over the Plantcam, otherwise I gotta tell you I am not spending the extra $130 just to find out.



I did spend the money on the PW after I already owned one of the GW cams. I have compared them side by side and have tried to be fair in my discussions of the similarities and differences between the two.  I still honestly don't see the price difference vs value but I appreciate LETMGROW being willing to discuss it.  Hope he makes some changes and sells them by the millions!


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## shdw633 (Sep 13, 2010)

wmahunter said:


> I agree and have no problem with the developer plugging his product. He has been very open in discussing the comparisons with other similar cameras.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you on this.  It is this kind of input that I feel turns a great product into a superior product and I hope the developer is looking at this kind of input as such, anyone can get a "yes" man.  I hope he does not feel that I am not knocking his product because in essence I am using a very similar product with success, and I know his product will do the same thing (having not owned or worked a PW I cannot say better or worse) that is not to say that I wouldn't switch if I felt the value presented itself in the future and only hope him this most success in his endevour.


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## farmasis (Sep 13, 2010)

Would like to see a side by side...but if website this is any indication of the quality of the Plant Cam..I am not impressed.

http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=151

If the 20 marker is 20 yards..that is pretty low quality deer pic at that range. Also..the picture gets really dark toward the end and it is saying 7pm in May. If that is the case..then low light dawn and dusk quality appears even worse.

now...look at the review at the same sight for the PW. The quality is much better..even when viewing the deer at 100 yard clip and that is 5X the distance..you can't tell me there is not a huge difference in quality. Also..the video is available to playback in TLV and to save in TLV or AVI. The TLV is much better than the AVI clips that are posted and sent. I dont think you can post the TLV format to show you the difference. They also commented that the quality and software makes this camera worth the extra money.
http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=153

But, it boils down to what you want and what you want to spend.


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## shdw633 (Sep 14, 2010)

farmasis said:


> Would like to see a side by side...but if website this is any indication of the quality of the Plant Cam..I am not impressed.
> 
> http://www.chasingame.com/index.php?id=151
> 
> ...



I will conceed that the Plotwatcher does have a better pic quality but again for what the camera is designed to do I don't see that as being enough to warrant the extra $$$$ but again as you say it boils down to what you want and what you want to spend.


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## Grimes25 (Sep 15, 2010)

Sorry you said "but at nearly $200".  Im not going to post anymore what I sell it for but it is less than $190- see your pm from awhile back it has your cost.  I figured you might take it this way and hope to not lose sale out of my comments but needed to clear the air. Im not one to stir the pot and shy away from forums/threads when I see bickering.  I did not mean to cause a controversy. 

I just think it refreshing you're not getting PR/sales pitch your getting honest answers.  Yes we both stand to gain if we sell the product. The developer and myself both think the product is far superior to the competetiors and overall a great value.  sdw you mentioned to me I shoudl sell this other product.  It is not something I wish to explore because my research shows inferior product.  I wish to sell quality and not wish to deal with complaints.  None of this changes the facts on what is being discussed.  Lets hear any questions or conerns but please dont bash someone for giving an honest answer back.


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## shdw633 (Sep 15, 2010)

shdw633 said:


> I only have $110 in both the solar battery pack (amazon) and the PlantCam (also Amazon).  I have tried to see the $130 difference between the *Plotwatcher ($190+/-)* and the PlantCam ($60 +/-, Amazon) and can't see the software being that much better than Windows Movie Maker.  I realize you have motion detection but with the trees moving that kinda nullifies that function.  With all the features the Plantcam has (external battery capability, 4 levels of resolution and multiple time settings) someone will really have to show me where the extra $130 is at in the Plotwatcher, again I just put 5000 pics in Windows Movie Maker and it did the same thing that you are saying your software does short of the motion detection.



First you need to read all the posts Grimes as this is what I stated originally and I 'm sure that once you add tax and/or shipping you are at or near $200.

Second, since when is an opinion considered bashing.  I haven't bashed the product nor have I have bashed anybody for having or selling the product, quite the opposite, I agreed in my prior post that the picture quality was better!  Are we to the point now on this board that if you don't agree with something it is automatically bashing?  The OP asked for pro's and con's and I gave my OPINION and the only OPINION was the price was too high, then I gave another OPINION stating an alternative, the only bashing that has been done is by you in stating you wouldn't sell an "inferior" product that I purchased.  Yes I did state to you that you should consider selling the Plantcam, but I did it in a private PM to you, not on this open forum and you have taken that and turned it into a PR move by bringing that comment out in the open and bashing the Plantcam and I guess me for suggesting it (sorry for trying to boost your business).   I have never downgraded your product, I simply pointed out that you and letemgrow have a financial stake in the product and that people should know that your comments have bias behind them, again that is not bashing it is informing those reading so they can gauge the comments accordingly.  Seriously, I am sorry if you take what I am saying as bashing but the last time I checked this wasn't a "How great is the Plotwatcher" thread, it was a Pro's and Con thread.  Believe me this is all a mute point as I am sure Bushnell and others are most likely figuring out how they can upgrade their current trailcam models to include this feature as it really isn't going to take them much to modify their current cameras to do this.

Finally, I just want to let everyone know that you can download Photoscape off CNET for free, download all your pictures into the AniGif File and you can control the speed you wish to view your footage down to 1/100th of a sec per pic.  Watched 5000 photos in just a few minutes, plus was able to stop and see individual photos as well as turn it into a seemless movie in a GIF file that is emailable as well.


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## farmasis (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't get a dime for the selling of a Plotwatcher camera, and I think the Plant Cam may be an alternative for someone who can't or doesn't want to spend the money for the PW.

I have stated the reasons why I think the PW is worth the difference, but some might not think so.

To me it is kinda like the difference between a Cuddleback and a Wildview camera. Both may do the same job..but the Cuddleback may be of higher quality, faster trigger speed, etc. The purchaser must decide if the extra money is worth the extra features. It is great to have options.


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## shdw633 (Sep 15, 2010)

farmasis said:


> To me it is kinda like the difference between a Cuddleback and a Wildview camera. Both may do the same job..but the Cuddleback may be of higher quality, faster trigger speed, etc. The purchaser must decide if the extra money is worth the extra features. It is great to have options.



Good analogy!!


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## Grimes25 (Sep 15, 2010)

ok I will not provide anymore insight into this conversation.  I do not sway my opinion to make a buck was my point and you still argue I do.  Therefore any opinion I have is frowned upon. If anyone has questiosn feel free to contact and I wil do my best to answer.  You have a strong desire to be right.  I quoted you directly what you said in a quote and argue I need to read more.  You state $60 +/- it actually is $68.97.  THe PW from me would be $105 more not the $130 you keep quoting.  

I will bow out you win not going to argue with someone in a public forum. I hope consumers do their research and ask questions.  I fell strongly they will see the difference.    
Agree good analogy farmasis.


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## LETMGRO (Sep 15, 2010)

Guys, I love reading the good and bad stuff about the product. I'm not so niave as to think that it can't be improved upon. My partners and I talk about improvements everyday. What each costs will be and what potential it may have. We do our best to measure what's really worth investing in. Your discussions are a part of our development discussions. 
For those that love it and see the value, thank you for speaking up. For those that like it but question the value, thanks for saying so. For those that don't see the value, speak up so we can figure out how to possibly earn your business as well.
I wish I had more time to be a part of the discussion so that when I weigh-in, it's more timely to the discussion. It may be staring me in the face, but I don't see any PR or "spin" or what have you. I may have a bunch to gain by speaking about the positives, but I'll never knowingly mislead anybody. This world is too small. This industry is too small and I'm building a brand for the company as well as the products and "spin" isn't part of the brand.
This brings me to my next point. WMAHunter....I stand corrected about my statements about the pic interval and scrolling with the mouse of the GW camera. Your post earlier was perfect timing. You see...... when I used the original GW camera in order to see what developments were required to start the PlotWatcher prototypes, you couldn't do those 2 things. We just happened to have the Brinno folks in-house the day after I read your post. I confirmed that they must not have felt as though those developments were requested and paid for by us b/c they decided to use them for themselves. I'll admit it's our fault for not contractually preventing this. Rest assured, it won't happen again. There will be development but you won't buy it in a neon green housing.  Frankly, it still chaps my butt. 
I'd love to know if your GW camera continues to try and video in the dark. It should. We also paid for engineering changes that cause our camera to convert to an every 5 minute cycle during night. Ours comes on every 5 minutes at night to check for light. The GW should continue to run all night at whatever interval you have it set for. That extra 10,000 wake-ups all night that don't produce a video is why you should get double the battery life with the PlotWatcher as compared to the GW cam when using the same picture interval. 
Our new firmware has really helped the battery life. I know it's still not where it needs to be, but it's a start.
Thanks again for all the input. I appreciate being able to be a part in the discussion. I still see this forum as I did before I ever started Day 6. A place to learn and share ideas and stories.


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## farmasis (Sep 19, 2010)

I heard a HUGE (160+) buck was killed using a PW to aid in setting up the stand location...does anyone have any info on that story?


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## SlipperyHill Mo (Sep 26, 2010)

I love mine, had a little problem making sure it was on. Software is very user friendly. Not sure how to save the clips, may take me a while. External power supply would be nice.

The Cuddeback Wildview analogy is good one. My cheaper Moultrie does not hold a candle to a Cuddy.


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## alvishere (Sep 28, 2010)

Question.....I Upgraded my Plot Watcher to a external 6 volt battery...I also put in a larger 16 gb drive.

The 16gb would not work, the eight works great.
Does anyone use a 16gb???


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## alvishere (Oct 2, 2010)

alvishere said:


> Question.....I Upgraded my Plot Watcher to a external 6 volt battery...I also put in a larger 16 gb drive.
> 
> The 16gb would not work, the eight works great.
> Does anyone use a 16gb???


anyone using 16gb???


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## mdhall (Oct 5, 2010)

I don't think it is designed to hold but up to an 8 gb card alvishere. Because from the factory the batteries would die before it filled it up anyway. But, the website does say "8 gb or higher" I think I've got a "4gb" in mine and it lasts all week.


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## SlipperyHill Mo (Oct 5, 2010)

It is my understanding the 8GB is the maximum, not sure where I heard that. Please tell me how to set up with 6 volt rechargable?


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## farmasis (Oct 5, 2010)

I talked with LETMGRO and 16g should work, but some may need to be formatted. I would contact Day6 if you need technical help with a 16g drive.


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## alvishere (Oct 5, 2010)

farmasis said:


> I talked with LETMGRO and 16g should work, but some may need to be formatted. I would contact Day6 if you need technical help with a 16g drive.


I talked with them today,  said it should work,
I formatted it...didn't work....I might have got a lemon! (16gb that is)
If I get time ...I'll try to post a pic of the 6 volt setup


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## shdw633 (Oct 7, 2010)

Natchezss.com has the Plotwatcher on sale right now for $159.99, that's not bad for what the camera can do.


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## Jim C (Oct 7, 2010)

I just found out about this a few months ago and would love to have a few.  For this reason I looked for something more reasonable and found the garden cam for $60.  So I read deeper because my plan would be to use the largest card possible and rig it to a 6v bat (as mentioned earlier) with a solar charger.  (I already have this for my regular cams.

I have yet to buy either.  My hesitation on the plant cam is that I may be a cpl wks between getting to the woods.  Once the card is full the plot watcher drops off the oldest/first pictures and keeping the latest, so if I were a while getting back, I would have the latest pics which would be far more useful than if the cam stopped a week before I got back.  The plant cam stops when the card is full.

It seems to me that it should be easy for the manufacturers of the regular trail cams to add this feature to their platform?


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## soopadoopa (Oct 9, 2010)

Jim C said:


> I just found out about this a few months ago and would love to have a few.  For this reason I looked for something more reasonable and found the garden cam for $60.  So I read deeper because my plan would be to use the largest card possible and rig it to a 6v bat (as mentioned earlier) with a solar charger.  (I already have this for my regular cams.
> 
> I have yet to buy either.  My hesitation on the plant cam is that I may be a cpl wks between getting to the woods.  Once the card is full the plot watcher drops off the oldest/first pictures and keeping the latest, so if I were a while getting back, I would have the latest pics which would be far more useful than if the cam stopped a week before I got back.  The plant cam stops when the card is full.
> 
> It seems to me that it should be easy for the manufacturers of the regular trail cams to add this feature to their platform?



Can anyone confirm this as true? I'm interested in the PW mostly for use in surveillance. We've had several items go missing this year, and this type setup would mean that I could set it up and leave it, if using a continuous power supply.


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## Grimes25 (Oct 12, 2010)

I suggest getting a larger GB card if going with this setup.  The PW software would be an advantage when going through video for surveillance.

Natchezzs does not have the PW any longer.  We are expecting another shipment and can ship asap for $8 anywhere in the state and offer GON members a good discount on the plotwatcher if interested.   Good Luck out there.


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## shdw633 (Oct 19, 2010)

Grimes25 said:


> Natchezzs does not have the PW any longer.  We are expecting another shipment and can ship asap for $8 anywhere in the state and offer GON members a good discount on the plotwatcher if interested.   Good Luck out there.



Is Plotwatcher cutting them off for selling them so low because I just ordered one from there today and they are shipping it out so evidently they still have some in stock at the $159 price.


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## Jim C (Oct 21, 2010)

Jim C said:


> Once the card is full the plot watcher drops off the oldest/first pictures and keeping the latest, so if I were a while getting back, I would have the latest pics which would be far more useful than if the cam stopped a week before I got back.  The plant cam stops when the card is full.





soopadoopa said:


> Can anyone confirm this as true? I'm interested in the PW mostly for use in surveillance. We've had several items go missing this year, and this type setup would mean that I could set it up and leave it, if using a continuous power supply.



Page 10 in the manual (go to site, click resources upper right corner, then click on product manuals)  Yes, I had to go back and search the site, I knew I had read it somewhere. 

"Managing Time Lapse Video files
The PlotWatcher TLV camera records one HD video file for each day of operation. Each daily
file uses around 300Mb of disk storage space. When the USB flash drive begins to fill up (about
10 days on a 4 Gb drive, or 20 days on an 8 Gb drive), the oldest file will be deleted to make
room for the newer file. This way, you always have the most recent time lapse video available to
review, even if you have collected more video than your USB drive will hold."


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## alvishere (Oct 24, 2010)

alvishere said:


> I talked with them today,  said it should work,
> I formatted it...didn't work....I might have got a lemon! (16gb that is)
> If I get time ...I'll try to post a pic of the 6 volt setup


Here is the way I have mine set up....If any one is interested here is the company that converted mine.

http://www.eagleshoals.com/\plotwatcher\


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