# I might need a hard hat?....Joel Osteen



## mtnwoman (May 8, 2011)

Many here don't like Joel..I know...duck


I like a lot of the sermons that Joel Osteen Teaches. He definately has the fruit of joy.  I need to be taught how to be joyful in spite of whatever......we are called to be a witness for that fruit of the spirit...if we are joyful that is.  Joel is also pretty funny in a cornball kind of way.  I can see the spirit of joy, longsuffering with joy, patience with joy...etc. with what he teaches, he makes me smile.

I like what I get from his teachings sometimes.


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## formula1 (May 9, 2011)

*Re:*

God always gives you what you need...and sends someone to give it. And all good things come from God. And everyone has their gift to the body of Christ.  Perhaps you have received it.  So praise the Lord!


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## Ronnie T (May 9, 2011)

I do also Annie.
He speaks to inspire people to rise above anything that doesn't bring joy to the person.  That's a good thing.
But I do have some concerns about his seldom taught doctrinal issues.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 9, 2011)

He is a great motivational speaker. But lacks the knowledge to deliver anyone. He Knows how to improve the flesh but the flesh was never meant to be cleaned up, but to be crucified. I have heard opposing religions say that they love to listen to him.


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## Rob (May 9, 2011)

I do like the positive tone to his sermons.  I also like to listen to him.


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## mtnwoman (May 10, 2011)

I do believe we get the 'word' we need when we need it, whether it comes from a small child or a billboard.

I need uplifting now and a joyful attitude. I've lost my job and haven't finished fixing my mobile home, but hey I still wanna dance like David danced, to the tune of 'joy'. 

I don't follow Joel consistantly just maybe a few times a month... maybe. I like the sound of his voice and with that smile, he's a good witness for joy. He practices what he preaches on that.


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## 1gr8bldr (May 10, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> I do believe we get the 'word' we need when we need it, whether it comes from a small child or a billboard.
> 
> I need uplifting now and a joyful attitude. I've lost my job and haven't finished fixing my mobile home, but hey I still wanna dance like David danced, to the tune of 'joy'.
> 
> I don't follow Joel consistantly just maybe a few times a month... maybe. I like the sound of his voice and with that smile, he's a good witness for joy. He practices what he preaches on that.


I have some friends who love to listen to him. Mostly for the encourgement. He is good at that.


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## crackerdave (May 10, 2011)

Prayers from here for your job and home situation,Annie.

I agree - Joel's a great encourager.


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## Six million dollar ham (May 10, 2011)

1gr8bldr said:


> He is a great motivational speaker. But lacks the knowledge to deliver anyone. He Knows how to improve the flesh but the flesh was never meant to be cleaned up, but to be crucified. I have heard opposing religions say that they love to listen to him.



This.  

Both because he says almost nothing based on the Bible.


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## Six million dollar ham (May 10, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> I do believe we get the 'word' we need when we need it, whether it comes from a small child or a billboard.
> 
> I need uplifting now and a joyful attitude. I've lost my job and haven't finished fixing my mobile home, but hey I still wanna dance like David danced, to the tune of 'joy'.
> 
> I don't follow Joel consistantly just maybe a few times a month... maybe. I like the sound of his voice and with that smile, he's a good witness for joy. He practices what he preaches on that.



I'm very sorry and I admire your outlook.  I just hope you're not sending any money in to keep his 'ministry' afloat.


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## Hunter Haven (May 10, 2011)

Joel Osteen along with many others make me a better person....

No matter who you are in Life, someone will find a fault in something you do, as with many about Mr. Osteen. But I for one know for a FACT  that he helps make me a better person and in absolutely no way does he create a negative impact on my Life.....


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## 7mm REM MAG (May 11, 2011)

Perhaps you need to look at his statements of faith before you put too much stock in him.

On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation. 

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Notice, he praises the pagan, false-religion of India as "I know they love God." Unbelievable. . . 

I’m sure some reading this are thinking, "Well, maybe Larry caught Joel Osteen flat footed. Maybe Osteen wasn’t prepared." If Osteen only had been given another chance to testify of the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ, he’d get it straightened out. 

Osteen did get another chance. . . 

After Larry King opened the phone lines, a concerned Christian asks Joel to clarify his previous statement (which we just viewed). Again Osteen could easily clear this up. 

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth. 

OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that. . .

KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven? 

OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only God can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the Bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...

KING: But you believe your way. 

OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart. 

KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he? 

OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let God be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know. 

KING: So you make no judgment on anyone? 

OSTEEN: No. But I...

And here Larry really tosses Joel a soft-ball. How about a God-defying atheist? And again, Osteen will not confess that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation. 

KING: What about atheists? 

OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only God knows that. 

Friend, the Bible is clear. There is one, and only one way out of an eternal Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and that is the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not simply "a relationship with Jesus Christ." Judas Iscariot had a "relationship" with Jesus Christ, walking and talking with the Lord, and even "kissing" the Lord (Luke 22:47), but Judas went to Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- (Acts 1:25). Revelation 2:15 reads, "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," 

What can wash away my sins – NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!

The teaching professed by Osteen that ". . . God’s got to look at your heart. . ." for salvation is wrong. It is grossly wrong. It is deadly wrong. God has already "looked at you heart." In Jeremiah 17:9, the Lord says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Proverbs 28:26, says, "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool. . ." The Lord Jesus says, in Matthew 15 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"


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## crackerdave (May 11, 2011)

I believe Osteen is right,when he says only God can judge a man's heart. I also believe John 14:6
 Jesus saith unto him "I am the way,the truth,and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me."
 I consider that one of the most important statements made by Jesus Christ.He said this to Thomas,who had asked how to get to where Jesus was going.
I'll be there one day,thanks to Jesus.There simply is no other way.


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## JFS (May 11, 2011)

crackerdave said:


> I am the way,the truth,and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me.



Could Jesus save someone even if they didn't profess belief in their lifetime on earth?   Does he have that power?  If so, how do we know he would not ever exercise it?


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## The Foreigner (May 11, 2011)

7mm REM MAG said:


> Perhaps you need to look at his statements of faith before you put too much stock in him.
> 
> On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:
> 
> ...



Amen brother.

Don't mistake a nice smile, nice suit and nice hair for joy. I'd have all those too if I took the amount of money from congregants that he takes.

The fact he keeps equivocating between "there is truth" and "i don't know the truth" tells me he is a false teacher. A true teacher of the word can be trusted to represent God accurately, and not squirm like he did when asked if Christ is the only way.   It's not about feeling good, or being a motivational speaker - it's about preaching Jesus Christ and him crucified, to the exclusion of every other false god man invents as a savior.  Stay clear of the man.


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## crackerdave (May 11, 2011)

JFS said:


> Could Jesus save someone even if they didn't profess belief in their lifetime on earth?   Does he have that power?  If so, how do we know he would not ever exercise it?





The Foreigner said:


> Amen brother.
> 
> Don't mistake a nice smile, nice suit and nice hair for joy. I'd have all those too if I took the amount of money from congregants that he takes.
> 
> The fact he keeps equivocating between "there is truth" and "i don't know the truth" tells me he is a false teacher. A true teacher of the word can be trusted to represent God accurately, and not squirm like he did when asked if Christ is the only way.   It's not about feeling good, or being a motivational speaker - it's about preaching Jesus Christ and him crucified, to the exclusion of every other false god man invents as a savior.  Stay clear of the man.


If he has said "I don't know the truth," I would agree - he's a false teacher.

JFS, only God knows what's in a person's heart when they draw their last breath. My sister was shot in the head by her husband, and died in the hospital she was born in. I wasn't there when she died,but her last words were "I love you." Only she and God know who she was talking to.


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## formula1 (May 11, 2011)

*Re:*

I saw this interview and the truth is, Joel Osteen was struggling with spelling out truth at the expense of grace. This was precisely because he expected his audience on this show to be secular in nature.  He did not want to judge or alienate people from the gospel because of his heavy slant toward grace.  This is the flaw I see in him per this interview. But I won't demean him because he slants toward the grace aisle, because that is precisely why the OP got joy from his words.  Grace does that!

What Joel is missing is a heavier dose of Truth. If grace in his message was balanced more with Truth, I'd bet he would be a far more effective minister of Christ.

Here are quotes on the subject from a book that I have recently read:

"Truth-oriented Christians love studying Scripture and theology. But sometimes they're quick to judge and slow to forgive. They're strong on truth, weak on grace." 

"Grace-oriented Christians love forgiveness and freedom. But sometimes they neglect Bible study and see moral standards as "legalism." They're strong on grace, weak on truth."

We need both Grace and Truth to be the most effective for the Gospel of Jesus. I hope as we discuss J.O., we will consider our own board!


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## rjcruiser (May 11, 2011)

JFS said:


> Could Jesus save someone even if they didn't profess belief in their lifetime on earth?



No.




			
				JFS said:
			
		

> Does he have that power?


God is omnipotent.



			
				JFS said:
			
		

> If so, how do we know he would not ever exercise it?



Because it would be contrary to His Character.

Kinda like asking if God can do all things?  Does that mean He can Sin?  Of course not, because it isn't in His Nature.


JFS...you just another troll looking for a biscuit?


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## JFS (May 11, 2011)

Nope.  But I think it is one of the great inconceivables of Christianity that someone who never heard the Gospel is somehow condemned for eternity.   When I read that quote, I don't see a clear meaning.  It merely says to get to God you have to go through Jesus.  I don't see how that requires a current profession of faith.  It could mean a lot of things, at least one of which may be reconcilable with the idea that Jesus could intermediate or intercede after death.  I'm sure some bible adherents have something to point to as to why Jesus can't do that.


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## rjcruiser (May 11, 2011)

JFS said:


> Nope.  But I think it is one of the great inconceivables of Christianity that someone who never heard the Gospel is somehow condemned for eternity.   When I read that quote, I don't see a clear meaning.  It merely says to get to God you have to go through Jesus.  I don't see how that requires a current profession of faith.  It could mean a lot of things, at least one of which may be reconcilable with the idea that Jesus could intermediate or intercede after death.  I'm sure some bible adherents have something to point to as to why Jesus can't do that.



Acts 14

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 15"Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. 16In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. 17Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness." 


All have been given a witness and an opportunity.  There will be no one without excuse at the judgement throne of God.


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## JFS (May 11, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness."
> 
> All have been given a witness and an opportunity.  There will be no one without excuse at the judgement throne of God.



Look, I know I'm coming at this from a more skeptical angle then you are, but there is no way everyone has heard the gospel before they die.  Having witness of god by receiving rain and fruitful seasons isn't going to be enough to lead someone to accept christ as their savior if they have never heard of him.

In fact, this may cut against you if the point is everyone who receives these things has enough to get right with god, in which case some people have enough to get right with god without the gospel.


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## The Foreigner (May 11, 2011)

JFS said:


> Look, I know I'm coming at this from a more skeptical angle then you are, but there is no way everyone has heard the gospel before they die.  Having witness of god by receiving rain and fruitful seasons isn't going to be enough to lead someone to accept christ as their savior if they have never heard of him.
> 
> In fact, this may cut against you if the point is everyone who receives these things has enough to get right with god, in which case some people have enough to get right with god without the gospel.



Romans 1 - everyman knows God through creation, the law of God is written on the heart of man (his conscience) and so all are without excuse. General revelation (creation) is enough to know God - man should then seek him out, according to his special revelation, the Scriptures, which contain the gospel. However, man chooses not to, surpressing the truth in unrighteousness- and for that he is condemned.

So the idea that not everyone has heard the gospel simply won't do. They haven't, but that is not where God starts with them. They are condemned for ignoring his revelation about himself, and failing to look further.


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## ambush80 (May 11, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> Romans 1 - everyman knows God through creation, the law of God is written on the heart of man (his conscience) and so all are without excuse. General revelation (creation) is enough to know God - man should then seek him out, according to his special revelation, the Scriptures, which contain the gospel. However, man chooses not to, surpressing the truth in unrighteousness- and for that he is condemned.
> 
> So the idea that not everyone has heard the gospel simply won't do. They haven't, but that is not where God starts with them. They are condemned for ignoring his revelation about himself, and failing to look further.



Those Indians in the Amazon?


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## rjcruiser (May 12, 2011)

JFS said:


> In fact, this may cut against you if the point is everyone who receives these things has enough to get right with god, in which case some people have enough to get right with god without the gospel.





The Foreigner said:


> So the idea that not everyone has heard the gospel simply won't do. They haven't, but that is not where God starts with them. They are condemned for ignoring his revelation about himself, and failing to look further.



Well said Foreigner.




ambush80 said:


> Those Indians in the Amazon?



What about them?


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## 1john4:4 (May 12, 2011)

7mm REM MAG said:


> Perhaps you need to look at his statements of faith before you put too much stock in him.
> 
> On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:
> 
> ...





Amen!


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## The Foreigner (May 12, 2011)

Yes those Indians in the Amazon - who are surrounded by God's creation, not closeted away as many in the western world are - are culpable for ignoring God, to whom creation witnesses. As I said, the "haven't heard the gospel" argument, is not why men are condemned! It's for ignoring the God that is before their very eyes, who's law is on their hearts by creation.


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## JFS (May 12, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> Yes those Indians in the Amazon - who are surrounded by God's creation, not closeted away as many in the western world are - are culpable for ignoring God, to whom creation witnesses. As I said, the "haven't heard the gospel" argument, is not why men are condemned! It's for ignoring the God that is before their very eyes, who's law is on their hearts by creation.




You haven't addressed the point at all.  If you were raised in the Amazon or on an island with no scripture, there are plenty of ways you could take notice of god's creation and try to follow god's law and still not come anywhere close to being a christian.   You could worship god as best you could, but you would almost certainly not choose to accept someone you have never heard of as your savior.

If you have no knowledge of scripture but you do worship god and do your best to obey god's law, why would god condemn you to he11?


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## rjcruiser (May 13, 2011)

JFS said:


> You haven't addressed the point at all.  If you were raised in the Amazon or on an island with no scripture, there are plenty of ways you could take notice of god's creation and try to follow god's law and still not come anywhere close to being a christian.   You could worship god as best you could, but you would almost certainly not choose to accept someone you have never heard of as your savior.
> 
> If you have no knowledge of scripture but you do worship god and do your best to obey god's law, why would god condemn you to he11?



God would provide a way....somehow, the gospel would get to this indian.  Kinda like the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts.  I've never known God to reject anyone who opened the door to His knocking.


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## ambush80 (May 13, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> God would provide a way....somehow, the gospel would get to this indian.  Kinda like the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts.  I've never known God to reject anyone who opened the door to His knocking.



Somehow.......  All those American Indians who came and went without ever seeing a white man or a Bible had heard of Jesus?  That's quite a stretch.


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## Turkey Trax (May 13, 2011)

The Foreigner said:


> I'd have all those too if I took the amount of money from congregants that he takes.



I agree that he is very shallow in his teachings, doesn't preach the bible much, and messed up on the larry king show. but how do you know what he "takes" as you put it from his congregants? what should a man that Pastors literally 10's of thousands of people make for a living? And how much do you think it costs his church to keep that building open and running on a weekly basis?


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## JFS (May 13, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Somehow.......  All those American Indians who came and went without ever seeing a white man or a Bible had heard of Jesus?  That's quite a stretch.



It's an absurd proposition. There are places to this day where people have not heard of Jesus.


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## polkhunt (May 14, 2011)

interesting take on joel


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## rjcruiser (May 16, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Somehow.......  All those American Indians who came and went without ever seeing a white man or a Bible had heard of Jesus?  That's quite a stretch.





JFS said:


> It's an absurd proposition. There are places to this day where people have not heard of Jesus.



Well...you can think of it however you want to.

I guess the main question for you is have you heard the gospel?  What is your excuse going to be?


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## JFS (May 16, 2011)

If there is a god, which seems unlikely, I don't think it would exercise random judgment.  If it was random there isn't much you could do to plan for it anyway then.  So let's assume it's rational.  If that's the case no rational god would punish someone for rejecting the paucity of evidence for and the logical absurdity of orthodox chrisitan superstitions.   In fact, maybe it's the "christians" who are going to get whacked upside the head by god for not using the good sense god gave them in the first place while they were here on earth.


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## rjcruiser (May 16, 2011)

JFS said:


> If there is a god, which seems unlikely, I don't think it would exercise random judgment.  If it was random there isn't much you could do to plan for it anyway then.  So let's assume it's rational.  If that's the case no rational god would punish someone for rejecting the paucity of evidence for and the logical absurdity of orthodox chrisitan superstitions.   In fact, maybe it's the "christians" who are going to get whacked upside the head by god for not using the good sense god gave them in the first place while they were here on earth.



Well then....seems like you and the natives that have never heard the gospel have nothing to worry about.

So then...why are you so worried about them and work so hard to find an answer to questions you already seemingly know the answer to?


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## formula1 (May 16, 2011)

*Re:*



JFS said:


> If there is a god, which seems unlikely, I don't think it would exercise random judgment.  If it was random there isn't much you could do to plan for it anyway then.  So let's assume it's rational.  If that's the case no rational god would punish someone for rejecting the paucity of evidence for and the logical absurdity of orthodox chrisitan superstitions.   In fact, maybe it's the "christians" who are going to get whacked upside the head by god for not using the good sense god gave them in the first place while they were here on earth.



Lord, I pray for this one, that first you forgive because he doesn't know what he is saying, that you may as of this moment, begin Your work to show him Your power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that he may open his eyes, repent and follow You.  In the precious name of Jesus, Amen.


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## JFS (May 17, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> why are you so worried about them and work so hard to find an answer to questions you already seemingly know the answer to?



Because it's more interesting than the work on my desk.

And it's relevant to the discussion of Joel's comments.  It seems inconceivable that a god of justice would determine people's post-mortem destination based on geography.  So rather than fabricate a notion that somehow everyone on the planet since the year 33 AD heard the gospel, maybe Joel's ideas aren't that outrageous.


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## JFS (May 17, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Lord, I pray for this one, that first you forgive because he doesn't know what he is saying, that you may as of this moment, begin Your work to show him Your power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that he may open his eyes, repent and follow You.  In the precious name of Jesus, Amen.




Thanks f1!


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## rjcruiser (May 17, 2011)

JFS said:


> Because it's more interesting than the work on my desk.



Isn't that the truth



			
				JFS said:
			
		

> And it's relevant to the discussion of Joel's comments.  It seems inconceivable that a god of justice would determine people's post-mortem destination based on geography.



Interesting that you utilize the characteristic of Justice.  Usually, an argument like that utilizes God's characteristic of Love.  When looking at Justice, we all deserve eternal separation from God due to sin.  There's no one who is perfect.  We all fail at some point in our lives.  We are all guilty.  

And it has nothing to do about geography.  We all have access to the gospel.  Refer back to my earlier post.



			
				JFS said:
			
		

> So rather than fabricate a notion that somehow everyone on the planet since the year 33 AD heard the gospel, maybe Joel's ideas aren't that outrageous.



33AD?  What about all those folks before 33AD?  You should read the book of Hebrews for that explanation  

I'll add in the cliff's notes version though....they were saved by Faith as well


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## JFS (May 17, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> 33AD?  What about all those folks before 33AD?  You should read the book of Hebrews for that explanation
> 
> I'll add in the cliff's notes version though....they were saved by Faith as well




I'll take your word for it, but the big beef people seemed to take with Joel was his statement he didn't know if Jesus was the only path to salvation.   You guys take some narrow views but I didn't think you hung that on pre- 33 AD folks.   

And sorry, I just don't buy that all the Aborigines and Native Americans in 34 AD had heard the gospel.


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## rjcruiser (May 17, 2011)

JFS said:


> I'll take your word for it, but the big beef people seemed to take with Joel was his statement he didn't know if Jesus was the only path to salvation.   You guys take some narrow views but I didn't think you hung that on pre- 33 AD folks.
> 
> And sorry, I just don't buy that all the Aborigines and Native Americans in 34 AD had heard the gospel.



Jesus is the only path to salvation....those who were pre-33 AD were saved via faith as well.  Their's was a faith in what was to come, while ours is a faith in what has come.

As far as the Aborigines/Native Americans...not sure when they all got to their respective areas.  But look at the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts.  Someone from the heart of Africa had writings from the OT at his disposal.  Also, all people came from Adam and Eve.  All people also came from Noah and his 3 sons.  At one point, all people had been taught by God.  That teaching was passed down to all.  It doesn't take much to look outside and realize...there has to be a higher being that orchestrated this all.


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## wild1 (May 24, 2011)

"Lamb slain before the foundation of the world". JESUS


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## Core Lokt (May 25, 2011)

JO is what I call a "feel good" preacher.


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## mtnwoman (May 27, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I'm very sorry and I admire your outlook.  I just hope you're not sending any money in to keep his 'ministry' afloat.



He has plenty of support. You think those sheep in his flock don't get fed well? They do and that's why he has the support he does. 
I send my money where I get fed every sunday, just because of all the things my church does. If I could send to everywhere I got fed, I would. 

His ministry doesn't stay afloat by money, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.....preach it, they will come.


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## mtnwoman (May 27, 2011)

Core Lokt said:


> JO is what I call a "feel good" preacher.



He balances out the heck and brimstone preachers....lol


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## Gabassmaster (May 27, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> Many here don't like Joel..I know...duck
> 
> 
> I like a lot of the sermons that Joel Osteen Teaches. He definately has the fruit of joy.  I need to be taught how to be joyful in spite of whatever......we are called to be a witness for that fruit of the spirit...if we are joyful that is.  Joel is also pretty funny in a cornball kind of way.  I can see the spirit of joy, longsuffering with joy, patience with joy...etc. with what he teaches, he makes me smile.
> ...




joel has the form of god but denies the power thereof he teaches there is more than one way to heaven and its not only Jesus christ The bible tells us to run from those... the devil does have his ministers of light doing nothing but leading people away from Jesus Christ


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## Gabassmaster (May 27, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> He has plenty of support. You think those sheep in his flock don't get fed well? They do and that's why he has the support he does.
> I send my money where I get fed every sunday, just because of all the things my church does. If I could send to everywhere I got fed, I would.
> 
> His ministry doesn't stay afloat by money, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.....preach it, they will come.



they dont get fed they get their eras tickled


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## rjcruiser (May 27, 2011)

Gabassmaster said:


> they dont get fed they get their eras tickled



Well...maybe they get a little milk in there.  

I Cor 3:1-2
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.  I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready


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## Gabassmaster (May 27, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Well...maybe they get a little milk in there.
> 
> I Cor 3:1-2
> But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.  I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready



amen RJ


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## CAL (May 27, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> He has plenty of support. You think those sheep in his flock don't get fed well? They do and that's why he has the support he does.
> I send my money where I get fed every sunday, just because of all the things my church does. If I could send to everywhere I got fed, I would.
> 
> His ministry doesn't stay afloat by money, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.....preach it, they will come.



Amen,sorta hard for me to find fault with a preacher what can gather this many people just to hear what he has to say.He must be doing something right.One thing I like about his preaching is he smiles when he talks.


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## we_dig_it (Sep 2, 2011)

Joel Osteen is a false phrophet.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 2, 2011)

we_dig_it said:


> Joel Osteen is a false phrophet.



Hey!  I like me a little Joel every once in a while.


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## we_dig_it (Sep 2, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> Hey!  I like me a little Joel every once in a while.




Its not about what we like. Its about Gods truth, and its no where to be found in Osteens ministry.....


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## mtnwoman (Sep 2, 2011)

I get plenty of other bible teaching, I just like Joel on the joy part. I need to tend my garden of fruit and sometimes a few tips here and there helps me. I also listen to John Hagee sometimes who will give me a good beatin' over the head. I need that, too...heck fire and brimstone.

Like I said, I pray for the answers and sometimes it comes from someone who may not preach or teach everything that I stand on. I take the grain I need and let the chaff blow away.

I've never found a pastor that I agreed with on every message.

Like for example submit to your husband and especially if he isn't saved....yeah ok, what if he's a cocaine dealer and he wants you to be the patsy...submit anyway....?


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## Ronnie T (Sep 2, 2011)

I think all pastors should be fired anyway.
Everybody's smarter than we are...... And no one listen to us.
Fire us.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 3, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I think all pastors should be fired anyway.
> Everybody's smarter than we are...... And no one listen to us.
> Fire us.



No, we need you! You help me all the time.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 3, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> No, we need you! You help me all the time.



I suspect you do me, and the others here, the most good.
You have you're own particular way of explaining things that makes an awful lot of sense.


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## Israel (Sep 4, 2011)

If God can use me, Osteen is a cake walk.
Now...we'd both be liars if either of us ever said this "Everything we do or say is always of the Lord, and everyone better pay heed"
Now, that's funny right there, no matter who you are!
It is never about the smallness of the instrument, but always about the bigness of our God.


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## truthfulhawk (Sep 5, 2011)

*uh oh*

I didnt read all the posts before I replied purposefully. I like to add my own thoughts without influence when possible.

Now peopel may not like me saying this but,..here it goes:

Osteen is the devil's own prophet. He teaches enough to make you like to hear it...that sucks people in. Now here is the problem: He won't preach on sin adn will not call Jesus the ONLY way to the Father. to leave out sin leaves out the truth of man and the hope of the ressurection which is Christ. To not teach and preach Jesus as the ONLY way to salvation is a lie and erodes any foundation that the rest of Osteen's teachings may be based on. 

This is nothing new. Jehovah Witness "faith" grew out of the desire to dismiss Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. Crazies like Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc can only claim a few people because of the obvious craziness and holes in their tenets. However, someone like Osteen uses the Holy Word as a basis to blind good people. The devil tried the same thing when he tried to tempt Christ. 

You cannot explain salvation without explaining sin. You cannot get to the Father (Heaven) except through Christ!


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## Mako22 (Sep 5, 2011)

truthfulhawk said:


> I didnt read all the posts before I replied purposefully. I like to add my own thoughts without influence when possible.
> 
> Now peopel may not like me saying this but,..here it goes:
> 
> ...



X2


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## mtnwoman (Sep 5, 2011)

I like this short sermon....it's about how God's grace is sufficient for us. I'm saved and I don't need a message on sin every week, I've been hammered in the head with that many times in church, sometimes I need this....and this is why I like Joel...I already know about sin, I need to know about how God's grace works for me. Joel is discipling people who are saved already and need something besides hearing about sin every sermon. In my opinion that puts too much guilt on people constantly...we are saved by grace, not by being perfect and sinless.

Please consider listening for just a few short minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOlb6RJKs7s&feature=related

...


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## StriperAddict (Sep 5, 2011)

There is a presumption with the preaching of J.O. that I'm not too happy about, in spite of the "joy". Sorry, but anyone giving my flesh a free pass doesn't pull me in the right spiritual direction.  I'll try to  explain.  
I have a friend who has the idea some miracle will soon come and offer hope, to herself and others. I won't go into details, but lets just say it is a concrete contradiction to the word of God.  The friend is nearly convinced, in spite of the contradiction, that this new thing will be the answer to the woe of many.  She said got the inspiration from J.O. (indirectly).
Now, let me stop and say that anyone hearing the gospel preached can, of their own reason (sorrow, loss, failure, sin, etc) make a choice about the truth of the Word that contradicts the preaching.  They do this the sake of taking something else along, some false miracle/promise, etc., to asuage the pain and bring "happiness".  We have to guard against this type of presumption everyday, and can't allow our hurts to take us away from the One who certainly meets ALL our needs in Christ Jesus.

The point I have to  make with every fiber of my being, is that it is Christ in you, not your own wishful thinking, that will make the way through life and it's sorrows and sins.  I won't let a supposed "joyful" preacher put me in a position to put ANY confidence in the flesh to meet my needs or that of others.  In spite of some good points, that is what I see Joel doing, and when I hear him, I'm tossing out a lotta bathwater while keeping the baby.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 5, 2011)

StriperAddict said:


> There is a presumption with the preaching of J.O. that I'm not too happy about, in spite of the "joy". Sorry, but anyone giving my flesh a free pass doesn't pull me in the right spiritual direction. *So you think people only need to be pulled in the right direction by preaching on sin and salvation and only being pulled in the right direction? What if you're already going in the right direction, you just need a little help from the rest of God's word, He didn't give us grace for nothing, did He? I need grace even in my spiritual walk with Christ.* I'll try to  explain.
> I have a friend who has the idea some miracle will soon come and offer hope, to herself and others. I won't go into details, but lets just say it is a concrete contradiction to the word of God.  The friend is nearly convinced, in spite of the contradiction, that this new thing will be the answer to the woe of many.  She said got the inspiration from J.O. (indirectly).*You don't think the womans story is pretty horrorfying? Watching the Jews be killed? That's pretty heavy stuff to me. If she can find God's grace beneficial even in all the losses and hurt and pain she has been thru, then I should receive grace even in the much smaller things I have to endure. Your friend should except "My grace is sufficient for thee, no matter how bad it gets...that's all Joel is saying. I need to be reminded of that daily, maybe that would help your friend. No, I don't expect a miracle in every bad thing that happens to me, in no way. But God's grace will see me thru it. I'm sorry you don't see the correlation in that. *
> Now, let me stop and say that anyone hearing the gospel preached can, of their own reason (sorrow, loss, failure, sin, etc) make a choice about the truth of the Word that contradicts the preaching.  They do this the sake of taking something else along, some false miracle/promise, etc., to asuage the pain and bring "happiness".  We have to guard against this type of presumption everyday, and can't allow our hurts to take us away from the One who certainly meets ALL our needs in Christ Jesus.
> 
> The point I have to  make with every fiber of my being, is that it is Christ in you, not your own wishful thinking, that will make the way through life and it's sorrows and sins.  I won't let a supposed "joyful" preacher put me in a position to put ANY confidence in the flesh to meet my needs or that of others.  In spite of some good points, that is what I see Joel doing, and when I hear him, I'm tossing out a lotta bathwater while keeping the baby.*He didn't say anything about your own wishful thinking that I heard....he's saying that no matter how bad things are, His grace is sufficent for thee...Joel didn't make that up, God said it. *



I guess we all don't need the same thing. But when it comes to God's grace, He gives us all grace in all areas, even if we don't understand why we go thru what we have to go thru. I do believe that God's grace is a miracle, even though I don't deserve it and don't understand it totally, but I pray a lot for God's grace even in situations that I don't believe that I cannot deal with. And much to my amazement later, even years later, I will say now I see why God let that happen.

I guess with Joel I like storytellers, I like people to express God's word in stories, like David and Goliath, and I've prayed many times for God to let me overcome or slay the giants in my life because of the 'milky' bible story. It's powerful to me. Even though God may not send a miracle He gives me grace to overcome it, and sometimes that is enough and sometimes it isn't, then I start praying for mercy.....and  grace is a free pass, it sure is, just like the cross is a free pass, given freely whether we understand it or even accept it...it was freely given.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 5, 2011)

we_dig_it said:


> Joel Osteen is a false phrophet.



I've never heard him prophesy, only simple teachings from the bible, and yes it may seem like milk, but ya know, new babes in Christ need milk just like us older folk. Could you tell me why you say that? Who told you that and what matter is it based on....sermon, etc or whatever.


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## Ronnie T (Sep 5, 2011)

First, in all honesty, I probably have no business commenting on something another church and it's pastor it teaching, unless they are teaching false doctrine.  And I certainly cannot know all that occurs and is taught at the church where Bro Osteen serves the Lord.

I think a preacher needs to proclaim the Gospel of Christ.  In season or out.  In other words, he needs to preach what needs to be heard, not necessarily what you want to hear.  

And Bro. Osteen needs to do that same thing.  Things that Israel and MountainWoman said make perfect sense to me.  The church in question has 20 minutes a week.  What should it proclaim to the millions that appear to be watching?  The Holy Spirit?  The Lord's Supper?  The birth of Jesus?  Judgment day?
They've chosen to tell of the greatness of being in Christ.  And what could be better to spend 20 minutes a week doing?

Worship time on the Lord's day is not Bible study class.  We all did that from 10 till 11.  From 11 to 12 it's time to praise God.  Maybe many of us preachers have it all wrong(talking to myself).  Maybe we should be doing more to get people to praise God rather than wanting to stomp our feet most of the time.

I know the media picks on this man a lot.  That might mean he's doing okay.

1 Corinthians 1:21
 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.


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## we_dig_it (Sep 5, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> I've never heard him prophesy, only simple teachings from the bible, and yes it may seem like milk, but ya know, new babes in Christ need milk just like us older folk. Could you tell me why you say that? Who told you that and what matter is it based on....sermon, etc or whatever.




read truthfulhawks response above.


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## Throwback (Sep 5, 2011)

I'll pass on Osteen. 

We were sent a "sermon" of his by a family member that just looooves him. he spent the entire sermon and didn't hit a bible verse one till he was closing and then it was a generic reference to it in passing. 

But boy we sure did "feel good" after hearing the honey dripping from his lips....


T


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## jmharris23 (Sep 6, 2011)

I am going to take a little different stance than RonnieT here. I also don't care to pick at another church or their pastor. 

But I will say this about Osteen. Be very very careful and stack him and everything he says/writes against the Bible.


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## Bama4me (Sep 6, 2011)

There are some things said in this thread that bear out a few truths.  First, we often lack "positive preaching" in the church.  Using heavy guilt to cause people to change lives usually works for a while, but then people usually either become hardened of heart or get frustrated with the constant "feel good/feel bad" cycle.  For folks who have grown up in that atmosphere, JO is very appealing.  

Second, preachers have a responsibility to declare to the people "the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27)... and to speak the oracles of God (1 Peter 4:11).  People like JO who stand before people & preach bear a responsibility to honor God by faithfully proclaiming ALL His word... not just the parts and pieces that aren't confrontational.  Never in the times I've watched JO have I seen the side that discusses negative things... yet my Lord addressed many of them in the gospel accounts.

The key, IMO, is balance.  Not all positive and not all negative... but including everything God has included for His people to teach and live by.


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## grouper throat (Sep 6, 2011)

I like Joel's sermons although I think he is lacking depth of content and strays away from the bible's teachings as some of you already suggested. That was easy  for me to see even as a young believer. 

I do like the 'feel good' sermons and have a 6 cd set of his sermons that I listen to often while commuting. It tends to put me in a great mood.


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## truthfulhawk (Sep 6, 2011)

*oh no*

This is the last comment I will make on this, I dont desire to fuss.

First, my original comment for some reason was edited due to filtering..it did NOT have anything obscene but I will preview from now on to make sure I get everything in it lol.

Secondly, it sounds to me like a couple of people here want their ears tickled. How can anyone possibly say that they know what sin is so it is ok for Osteen to skip it...he isn't preaching to just one person, He is preaching to a congregation of 100,000+ and 100,00s more. 
Moreover, how can one say that you know Osteen lacks depth and strays from Biblical precepts but that is ok....at least two posts here included "he makes me feel good" or some paraphrase.

If I know a preacher is straying from the "Truth" then that is it for me, I am outta there. I will not devote my time, memory, or heart to a false teacher because he makes me feel good. Why not find someone who preaches concrete doctrine who includes hope as well. I know that I enjoy listening to sermons on joy, forgiveness, hope, love...But when I understand that weeping may last for a night, but joy comes in the morning(Psalm 30:5)...how much sweeter is that joy. Can I understand the depth of forgiveness if i myself dont understand how I am forgiven in Christ (2 points here...Christ as the way and forgiveness of sin)...what is hope if everything is always smiles and giggles and swell...why then should I hope? love...love is many things other than syrup...it can be reproof and reproach..such as what the scriptures are used for...love is sacrifice..as what Christ did for us on the cross as the Only way to Heaven. love is often telling the truth in order to open the eyes of others...even when they dont want to hear it. Love is NOT being a liar and tickling ears as Osteen proves to do.

This post isn't meant as an angry outburst, on the contrary, I am more concerned than anything. I am also not interested in point counterpoint on this subject, I just needed to clarify these things as I see them. Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to share and respecting me as a person as I do you, even if we disagree.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 6, 2011)

How do we understand and learn about the fruit of the spirit? Nobody needs discipling on those? And I'd hesitate to call the fruit of the spirit being tickled....I need joy....peace....and I need to reminded of that also.


Like I said I've already been thru the heckfire and brimstone sermons and am saved, but I need to be reminded of the other parts of God's word. Maybe y'all have already fully developed all the fruit of the spirit and don't need to be discipled on it, but myself, I need to learn how to tend my garden and like some teaching on that once in a while. 

Do we need to hear the gospel, of course, but not every sermon with nothing else to go along with it. I get what I need in a lot of various places. And are all preachers totally perfect, no and correct? NO. After listening to a heckfire and brimstone preacher like John Hagee I need some joy and mercy teaching. And no I don't listen to Hagee all that much unless I'm wanting to get into remembering the wrath of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 



Make fun and mock whoever you will, but you'd better be careful in doing so.
God will send me what I need even if He has to use a billboard to do so.
I like me some meat but I like a little sweet milk every once in a while. I want to be prepared to enjoy the land of milk and honey.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 6, 2011)

Bama4me said:


> There are some things said in this thread that bear out a few truths.  First, we often lack "positive preaching" in the church.  Using heavy guilt to cause people to change lives usually works for a while, but then people usually either become hardened of heart or get frustrated with the constant "feel good/feel bad" cycle.  For folks who have grown up in that atmosphere, JO is very appealing.
> 
> Second, preachers have a responsibility to declare to the people "the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27)... and to speak the oracles of God (1 Peter 4:11).  People like JO who stand before people & preach bear a responsibility to honor God by faithfully proclaiming ALL His word... not just the parts and pieces that aren't confrontational.  Never in the times I've watched JO have I seen the side that discusses negative things... yet my Lord addressed many of them in the gospel accounts.
> 
> The key, IMO, is balance.  Not all positive and not all negative... but including everything God has included for His people to teach and live by.



Amen!


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## StriperAddict (Sep 6, 2011)

mtnwoman said:


> *So you think people only need to be pulled in the right direction by preaching on sin and salvation and only being pulled in the right direction? What if you're already going in the right direction, you just need a little help from the rest of God's word, He didn't give us grace for nothing, did He? I need grace even in my spiritual walk with Christ.*




Annie, I understand from your responses that I didn't make my point.  

There is nothing wrong with grace teaching, and I said nothing of only sin/salvation teaching to heal us and set us free.  It is because of grace, and... "Christ in you, the hope of glory" that we can be made whole.  All our needs are met in Christ, that is what we can reckon to be so.  Just like we can reckon sin to be dead to us, because the Word says so, not because of what we "feel" or how "well" (in our own strength) we are doing.  I'll say it again, our flesh profits nothing. So, any preacher that tells me I can have monetary prosperity or instant healing has some presumption going on that I can't and shouldn't abide.  There are no guarantees from the scriptures for these things. 
I find my sufficency in Christ alone, and when I look to ANY external (money, fame, etc) God will gently tap on my hearts door and say them things gotta go.  God is in the "self-crucifixion" business.



mtnwoman said:


> I guess with Joel I like storytellers, I like people to express God's word in stories, like David and Goliath, and I've prayed many times for God to let me overcome or slay the giants in my life because of the 'milky' bible story. It's powerful to me. Even though God may not send a miracle He gives me grace to overcome it, and sometimes that is enough and sometimes it isn't, then I start praying for mercy.....and grace is a free pass, it sure is, just like the cross is a free pass, given freely whether we understand it or even accept it...it was freely given.


I'm not disagreeing with you at all here.  In fact, 'grace to help' is what I cling to many times.


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## grouper throat (Sep 6, 2011)

truthfulhawk said:


> This is the last comment I will make on this, I dont desire to fuss.
> 
> First, my original comment for some reason was edited due to filtering..it did NOT have anything obscene but I will preview from now on to make sure I get everything in it lol.
> 
> ...



Straying was a bad word choice on my part. How about glazing over? lol I'm not here to argue about it.

Joel is more of a Christian based motivational speaker in my book and it's his niche. Maybe Joel interepts God's word differently than many other pastors? I don't know and only he can answer that.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 6, 2011)

grouper throat said:


> Straying was a bad word choice on my part. How about glazing over? lol I'm not here to argue about it.
> 
> Joel is more of a Christian based motivational speaker in my book and it's his niche. Maybe Joel interepts God's word differently than many other pastors? I don't know and only he can answer that.



yes!

I sure need some motivation sometimes and if Joel only has crumbs here and there to offer, this ol' gal will take that if'n a crumb will help me.


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## mtnwoman (Sep 6, 2011)

Here's two more things that has stuck strong in my heart from not so well liked preachers.

Tempation will never die. We have to die to tempation. Joyce Meyers.  When I heard that I quit beatin' myself up everytime I had a temptation, as if you think it, you've committed it.  satan will always try to trip us up and continue to throw darts until we die. I stayed guilty all the time, and wondered about my salvation, I thought gee, if I'm saved why am I thinking that. That little line of hers, set me free.


Answer that one phone call that you've longed for and waste another year of your life.
On bad relationships by TD Jakes.

I have an umpire in my soul, the Holy Spirit. If i'm out of bounds, He'll call me on it. If'n I'm wantin' to hookup with junebug to party, my Holy Spirit, says oh no you don't....turn around and walk the other way.  Hold up wait a minute, don't go there cause God ain't wid it!
Juanita Bynum.

Just like the wheat and the chaff, I take what's worth taking and let the rest blow away.

Maybe I have a learning disability, but this works for me. I learn by hearing, and so does my youngest granddaughter
who has dyslexia. The Holy Spirit rightly divides the word for us, so's we all can get it, no matter our handicaps in learning.


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## we_dig_it (Sep 13, 2011)

Osteen's messages give zero mention of the depravity of man, the wrath of God against sin, and the Cross of Christ by which man is reconciled to God. I dont understand why anyone would listen to this false prophet.


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