# .410 Turkey Gun



## GLS (Mar 13, 2014)

This is the second .410 by Yildiz that I have rigged out as a turkey gun.  I had it put together for a lifelong friend and hunting buddy.  My first was fine without the need for choke work.  I nailed two birds with it last spring.   It is a bona fide 40 yard turkey gun with 13/16 oz. of TSS shot in a 3” shell.  The second gun, however, was marginal at best with 74 pellets in a 10” circle at 40 yards.  Having been more than satisfied with Sumtoy’s work on my MP-18 single-shot Baikal 20 gauge, I asked William what he could do to improve the second gun.  He has built “target” turkey barrels in .410.  He thought the best route was to sleeve a choke into the barrel and secure it with the most stubborn grade of Loctite.  He has made competition target “turkey” guns and hundreds of rounds are shot through these epoxied-in chokes without a problem.  The choke can be removed if necessary by direct heat applied by a torch.  I don’t anticipate removal as the gun won’t have that many rounds shot through it in its life as a wild turkey gun.   William called to let me know the gun was ready last weekend.  On test firing Saturday, the pattern wasn’t what we hoped for.  He thought it might have been over-choked.  He opened it up.  That didn’t do it.  He then shortened it, thinking that might help.  That didn’t do it either.  He then decided it would be best to start from scratch and make a new choke and alter the internal geometry which he did.   I left the gun with him and went back yesterday to test fire it.  Bingo!  I was happy with the results, 110 in the 10” circle in a gusty wind.  The circle, as originally drawn, enclosed 102 shot.  After redrawing, it brought in 20 more, but lost 8.
These guns are available at Academy Sports locations, but not online, for about $130.00.   They are rarely in stock as they sell fast.   The feature that I find most fascinating about these guns is the lightweight.  The gun as depicted is 3 lbs., 5 oz.   I have received requests on occasion to supply hand loads.  I am not licensed to do so by the Feds.  I am in no position to fulfill requests for hand loads.  I will, however, point you in the right direction for the necessary supplies to do so yourself.  Thanks.


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## hawglips (Mar 13, 2014)

That'll work!


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## Reminex (Mar 13, 2014)

Love it!  been calling academy of macon for months and cant get one.  I decided to wait one more year but thanks for your poat and info.


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## J Gilbert (Mar 13, 2014)

I wish Yildiz would sell the same gun in 20ga- I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  Can't find a 220A that I can afford, and I hate hammers on guns, but man I'd kill for a nice single-barrel 20.


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## Core Lokt (Mar 13, 2014)

I like it! 40 yds and in is a plenty. If I can't get him any closer he won that match until we meet again.


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## GLS (Mar 13, 2014)

J Gilbert said:


> I wish Yildiz would sell the same gun in 20ga- I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  Can't find a 220A that I can afford, and I hate hammers on guns, but man I'd kill for a nice single-barrel 20.



The Baikal MP-18 is a hammerless gun in 20 gauge.  It's 5 lbs., 5 oz.  It comes with 3" chambers with switchable extractor/ejector.  Bud's or Cheaperthandirt has them.
Here’s my Baikal MP-18 project gun:
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,26715.0.html


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## J Gilbert (Mar 13, 2014)

GLS said:


> The Baikal MP-18 is a hammerless gun in 20 gauge.  It's 5 lbs., 5 oz.  It comes with 3" chambers with switchable extractor/ejector.  Bud's or Cheaperthandirt has them.
> Here’s my Baikal MP-18 project gun:
> http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,26715.0.html



That's an option I've considered, but I don't like where lever is to break the action- I've got an Encore that I hunt deer with and it's fine because of the thumbhole stock, but I don't think I'd like it as much with a straight stock.  

It looks like the market has leveled out on the 220's, might be able to pick one up this summer- I know when I looked a few years ago they were $300-400 if I recall correctly.


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## GLS (Mar 13, 2014)

I have a 220a (20) and a 220b (.410).   While they are great guns, the availability of parts on the MP-18 sold me on it--that and the beefy barrel steel.  I have recently picked up a sweet looking Beretta Brevattato (folder) single-shot 20  made in 1957.   I may run some rounds through it soon to see how  it shoots as is.  4 lbs., 14 oz. I've read one complaint about the potential for the underlever on the Baikal for pinching fingers.  The complaint was from someone who has never held, much less shot one. That's been a non-issue for me.  I got lucky on the 220a--got it for $150 on gunbroker about 2 years ago.  The .410 was more.  The .410 weighs 14 oz. more than the 20.  It sits on the same frame as the 20 but to match the firing pin location on the action, the .410 barrel is overbuilt.


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## Toddmann (Mar 13, 2014)

William has my recently acquired yildiz .410 right now. I also have a savage 220a 20ga and a 220b .410. Love those hammerless single shots.


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## GLS (Mar 13, 2014)

Toddmann said:


> William has my recently acquired yildiz .410 right now. I also have a savage 220a 20ga and a 220b .410. Love those hammerless single shots.



He mentioned having another to mount a base on.  Must've been yours.  Is your .410 220B a little on the "tubby" side compared with the 20 gauge 220A?


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## sman (Mar 13, 2014)

I saw it in person and dropped one off just like it for a buddy.  Nice looking rig!


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## Toddmann (Mar 13, 2014)

GLS said:


> He mentioned having another to mount a base on.  Must've been yours.  Is your .410 220B a little on the "tubby" side compared with the 20 gauge 220A?



Yeah I know what you mean.  The yildiz is way lighter and its POI was right on so I decided to rig it 1st. I sent my 220a 20 ga barrel to Rob Roberts gobblin guns and had the chamber lengthened to 3" and barrel polished. Will problem add a choke system to it one day when I get around to it.


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## Killdee (Mar 13, 2014)

Toddmann said:


> Yeah I know what you mean.  The yildiz is way lighter and its POI was right on so I decided to rig it 1st. I sent my 220a 20 ga barrel to Rob Roberts gobblin guns and had the chamber lengthened to 3" and barrel polished. Will problem add a choke system to it one day when I get around to it.



Are you the Todd B. I pm'ed and emailed you last year or so re a 220-20 gauge? 
Kd


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## Gadget (Mar 13, 2014)

nice set up!


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## Bucky T (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm already in the process of getting my Stevens Mod 94 Series P setup for turkey killing.


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## Toddmann (Mar 13, 2014)

Killdee said:


> Are you the Todd B. I pm'ed and emailed you last year or so re a 220-20 gauge?
> Kd



Yes sir. I B the same Todd B.


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## Killdee (Mar 14, 2014)

Glad your getting that 220 going, I'm still looking. Great job on the .410, William will go the extra mile to get folks satisfied.


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## Gadget (Mar 14, 2014)

There's a 12ga 220A for sale on Gun Doc's website


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## Killdee (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks, I'm still wanting a 20, I like the new guns but I still prefer the old stuff like me


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## Gaswamp (Mar 14, 2014)

Killdee said:


> Thanks, I'm still wanting a 20, I like the new guns but I still prefer the old stuff like me



If you don't mind a hammer gun but still like the nostalgia of having an old shotgun, then look at a Stevens 94.  They are more readily available.


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## Killdee (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks I have a fine H-R 20 hammer gun from right around 1940-50 but it was my Pappys and I dont really want to tinker with it,.... but I might!!! It is a modified choke and I'm about to roll up some 2-3/4 Tss so I may see what it will do stock.I do love the look and feel of the hammerless 220 but have only found rough ones or a bit out of my wallet at the time. Todd has a nice 1 and I should have bought it when he had it for sale but I got distracted and built the yuth 870 instead.


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## Toddmann (Mar 14, 2014)

Shot my 220B .410 today. It's POA & POI are dead on. Put a recoil pad on it today to increase its LOP. I got some .410 TSS #9 a friend loaded for me. Gonna give the Yildiz a try and maybe the 220B as well if I can get a good pattern out of them.


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## Gaswamp (Mar 14, 2014)

Killdee said:


> Thanks I have a fine H-R 20 hammer gun from right around 1940-50 but it was my Pappys and I dont really want to tinker with it,.... but I might!!! It is a modified choke and I'm about to roll up some 2-3/4 Tss so I may see what it will do stock.I do love the look and feel of the hammerless 220 but have only found rough ones or a bit out of my wallet at the time. Todd has a nice 1 and I should have bought it when he had it for sale but I got distracted and built the yuth 870 instead.



yeah I think the HR wud be cool.  I've got a friend who had the same dilemma as you, except his pappy's gun was a Winchester Model 37.  He ended up getting Curtis to work on it and hopes to kill his first turkey this spring with it.   Said it was just collecting dust otherwise.


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## swamppirate (Mar 14, 2014)

Look for a model 37 Winchester....fine little single barrels.


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## Gaswamp (Mar 15, 2014)

GLS said:


> I have a 220a (20) and a 220b (.410).   While they are great guns, the availability of parts on the MP-18 sold me on it--that and the beefy barrel steel.  I have recently picked up a sweet looking Beretta Brevattato (folder) single-shot 20  made in 1957.   I may run some rounds through it soon to see how  it shoots as is.  4 lbs., 14 oz. I've read one complaint about the potential for the underlever on the Baikal for pinching fingers.  The complaint was from someone who has never held, much less shot one. That's been a non-issue for me.  I got lucky on the 220a--got it for $150 on gunbroker about 2 years ago.  The .410 was more.  The .410 weighs 14 oz. more than the 20.  It sits on the same frame as the 20 but to match the firing pin location on the action, the .410 barrel is overbuilt.



post up a pic of the Beretta sometime Gil.


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## GLS (Mar 15, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> post up a pic of the Beretta sometime Gil.



Joe, here you go. I will shoot it this afternoon to see if it has potential for a turkey gun.  Otherwise, it will be fine for dog training. 4 lbs., 13 oz. (not 14 oz. as I misstated above).  The last photo is a comparison of the Yildiz vs the 220B barrels.  If one is looking for lightweight in a sub gauge single shot, the Savage .410 is not the answer.  The Savage 220A in 20 gauge is a almost a full pound lighter.  Gil


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## Gaswamp (Mar 15, 2014)

Hope it has potential Gil.  I like the looks of it.


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## GLS (Mar 15, 2014)

Billy sighted it in today.  William Lambert at Sumtoy has always said that the patterns get better the more you shoot through a choke.  Well, the proof was in the pudding.  Billy put 131 in the 10” ring at 40 yards.



The wood is not the only nice touch to this gun.  Here are internals:


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## Gadget (Mar 16, 2014)

Looks good Gil

I've got a 220b 20ga if your still looking killdee.


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## Randy (Mar 16, 2014)

Gadget said:


> There's a 12ga 220A for sale on Gun Doc's website



What is his web site?  PM if necessary.


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## Killdee (Mar 17, 2014)

Gadget said:


> Looks good Gil
> 
> I've got a 220b 20ga if your still looking killdee.



PM me please


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## GLS (Mar 17, 2014)

Killdee, here's what my factory choked 220A does with 1 oz. of TSS 9's.  Even at 1235 fps,  it's a heckuva lot more pleasant to shoot out of a 5 lb. gun than anything heavier.  It's the old Kyle Smith unbuffered load but  I substituted 9's for 7's as he published it at his defunct website.  A trimmed 28 gauge wad holds the shot and is nestled inside a 20 gauge wad.


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## Toddmann (Mar 17, 2014)

Awesome pattern Gil.


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## Killdee (Mar 17, 2014)

Dang, that is fine for a 1oz load!!! Handloading gives you so many better options than all the hard to find factory shells dont it.What is the difference in a 220a 220b and is your gun a full choke?


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## ryanwhit (Mar 17, 2014)

GLS said:


> Billy sighted it in today.  William Lambert at Sumtoy has always said that the patterns get better the more you shoot through a choke.  Well, the proof was in the pudding.  Billy put 131 in the 10” ring at 40 yards.
> 
> 
> 
> The wood is not the only nice touch to this gun.  Here are internals:




That's the yildiz pattern?  That's real nice, I'd be very happy with that.  Mine is not yet sleeved, I'm at just under 100.


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## GLS (Mar 17, 2014)

ryanwhit said:


> That's the yildiz pattern?  That's real nice, I'd be very happy with that.  Mine is not yet sleeved, I'm at just under 100.


Yes, it's the depicted sleeved Yildiz.  Mine is un-sleeved. 
If the above gun had patterned in the 100 range, I wouldn't have had it sleeved.  It was about 25 pellets less.  My personal gun has shot as low as 88 up to 110 when I was patterning it.  I would probably not have yours sleeved if it were mine.  It's a 40 yard gun as is and probably is more forgiving at 25-30-35 yards than one that shoots 130+ in the 10 ring at 40. 30-35 yards is the sweet spot for most of my kills and my preferred range.  I don't like them too close.   Just keep in mind that a 10" circle is 78 square inches and 1 pellet every square inch isn't too shabby provided evenly distributed.


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## Timber1 (Mar 17, 2014)

Saw an ad yesterday 12,16,20,28,410 Savage 220, $1200.


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## Gadget (Mar 17, 2014)

Killdee said:


> Dang, that is fine for a 1oz load!!! Handloading gives you so many better options than all the hard to find factory shells dont it.What is the difference in a 220a 220b and is your gun a full choke?





my Savage 220b has 28" fixed full choke barrel, all stock. The b is slightly different than the a in how the trigger and ejector work. The two I have built into turkey guns are 220a's; a 20 and 12ga. All I want is another 20ga barrel for my A's; that's what I bought the 220b for, but after I got it found the barrel would not work on my A's, the attachment is slightly different.

Any more Q's send me a pm.


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## harryrichdawg (Mar 17, 2014)

Saw 2 break action .410's at Academy today.  I think we were in Loganville or Snellville, just passing through.  Price point was $129, so these may be what ya'll are looking for.


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## GLS (Mar 18, 2014)

harryrichdawg said:


> Saw 2 break action .410's at Academy today.  I think we were in Loganville or Snellville, just passing through.  Price point was $129, so these may be what ya'll are looking for.


Bet they don't stay there past sundown today.


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## Gadget (Mar 18, 2014)

GLS said:


> Bet they don't stay there past sundown today.




need to go check the Academy by me, pick me up one of those 410's. Was thinking of getting another barrel for my 220a's in 410 but can't find any out there. For that price I'll just pick up a new.


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## gobblinglawyer (Mar 18, 2014)

Sweet looking set up.


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## Killdee (Mar 18, 2014)

Gadget said:


> need to go check the Academy by me, pick me up one of those 410's. Was thinking of getting another barrel for my 220a's in 410 but can't find any out there. For that price I'll just pick up a new.



Your PM mailbox is full G.

I may have to build up 1 of those just to aggravate the 3.5" 12 gauge shooters!!!!


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## Gaswamp (Mar 18, 2014)

Gadget said:


> need to go check the Academy by me, pick me up one of those 410's. Was thinking of getting another barrel for my 220a's in 410 but can't find any out there. For that price I'll just pick up a new.



Rick, just get you a barrel off of a Stevens 94
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=400510714


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## Gadget (Mar 19, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Rick, just get you a barrel off of a Stevens 94
> http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=400510714




Your sure it will lock up properly? I'll call and ask Curtis. The 220b will not fit the 220a and the guns with just "220" can be either like an "A" or "B". Even among guns that are of the same designation some will not lock up without doing some mods.


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## Gaswamp (Mar 19, 2014)

Gadget said:


> Your sure it will lock up properly? I'll call and ask Curtis. The 220b will not fit the 220a and the guns with just "220" can be either like an "A" or "B". Even among guns that are of the same designation some will not lock up without doing some mods.



Seems like I remember Curtis telling me it would work...let me know what he says


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## Gadget (Mar 19, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Seems like I remember Curtis telling me it would work...let me know what he says




your right..... in most cases, but sometimes will not lock up he said. some just need a little work to make lock but they do have the same type connection as 220a.


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## GLS (Mar 20, 2014)

The first time I fired my 220A and opened the action I was startled when the hull ejected over my shoulder.  I expected to extract, not eject.  Savage's single-shot had models in 220, 220A, B, C and D.  I saw drawings online of the various internal differences. In addition, Savage  had the same gun designated as 219 with a shotgun barrel and a rifled barrel in various calibers.  All and all, a very nice gun for the money.  At another forum someone remarked that my 220A 20 gauge has a non-standard, larger trigger guard.  I dunno whether it does or not.  The trigger is light and crisp.


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## Killdee (Mar 20, 2014)

From  the photos and guns I have looked at, I have never noticed one with that little extra detail on the back of the guard. Looks nice on it,good looking gun.


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## Gadget (Mar 20, 2014)

Think I'm the one that told you about the trigger guard, don't think that's stock. They were probably trying to prevent the finger jam, but that seems like it would make it worse for me. On my 220's with the smaller guard it's my middle finger on the back side of the guard which gets bruised from shooting, not the trigger finger. Seems like a bigger trigger guard would make it worse on the outside fingers but maybe not.


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## GLS (Mar 20, 2014)

Rick, I haven't noticed any finger discomfort in shooting.  I suppose if the guard is custom, it was well made and fitted and would allow gloves to be worn.  It's not a gun one would want to fire at a pattern board all day with turkey loads.    Gil


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## Gadget (Mar 20, 2014)

Happens with one shot while hunting, not while patterning. I pattern with a lead sled DFT. That's why Gun Docc has a mod for it, many ppl have complained about it.


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## GLS (Mar 20, 2014)

I pattern off the shoulder on bench with left hand holding forend and right hand holding pistol grip, but I am well protected with an Evoshield shooting shirt and Limbsaver slip-on when doing so.


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## Toddmann (Apr 22, 2014)

Well I finally got it finished.  170 TSS #9.5 pellets in a 10" @ 30yds. Love this little gun.


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## nrh0011 (Apr 22, 2014)

slick looking set up!


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## ryanwhit (Apr 22, 2014)

Toddmann said:


> Well I finally got it finished.  170 TSS #9.5 pellets in a 10" @ 30yds. Love this little gun.



Nice!  Haven't shot mine w 9.5s yet, but I do have some loaded.  I'm 90-110 in the 10 at 40 and 270 in the 10 at 20 with #9s.  9.5s should boost it a little.


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## GLS (Apr 22, 2014)

Todd, Ryan, those are really good numbers.  Good luck with it in the woods.  It's a real treat to carry compared to my old 835 or SBE.  Nice looking wood...Gil


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## Gaswamp (Apr 22, 2014)

Toddman, whats up with the recoil pad on the .410?


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## Killdee (Apr 22, 2014)

Is that through the stock choked barrel or is it screw in. Nice!!


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## Gadget (Apr 22, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Toddman, whats up with the recoil pad on the .410?



That's what me was thinking.....but hey the softer the kick the better right. 

Nice, plan on setting one up myself.


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## Toddmann (Apr 22, 2014)

Gaswamp said:


> Toddman, whats up with the recoil pad on the .410?



Mainly to increase LOP.  Those custom TSS loads do pack a little more punch. I am gonna set up a Savage 220B next.


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## Toddmann (Apr 22, 2014)

Killdee said:


> Is that through the stock choked barrel or is it screw in. Nice!!



Stock full choke. Does not have screw in choke system.


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## Gadget (Apr 22, 2014)

Toddmann said:


> Mainly to increase LOP.  Those custom TSS loads do pack a little more punch. I am gonna set up a Savage 220B next.




What size 220 you doing? Did grind to fit limbsavers on my 220A's, lengthened the LOP some, maybe an inch.


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## GLS (Apr 22, 2014)

While weight of the gun  is an important factor in recoil, it is not nearly as significant to recoil as is the payload.  I mistakenly thought the two factors were on equal footing, but the .410's felt recoil wasn't nearly as bad as the 20 gauge.  I  initially thought that the  recoil of the 3 lb., 3 oz .410 shooting .8125 oz. (13/16) would be similar to what a 6 lb. 20 gauge would be shooting twice the .410's payload weight which would be the 1 5/8 (1.625) oz. load (assuming the same velocity).  After running the numbers through an online calculator, disregarding powder and wad weights of each load, the .410 generated 12.1 foot pounds compared to the 20 gauge's 26.7 foot pounds of energy.  Go figure.  Which I did.


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## Toddmann (Apr 22, 2014)

Gadget said:


> What size 220 you doing? Did grind to fit limbsavers on my 220A's, lengthened the LOP some, maybe an inch.



.410 & it has a really short LOP even with the recoil pad I added.  May have to create some kind of spacer btn the wood & recoil pad. I also have another Savage 220A. It's a 20 ga.  Another project as well.


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## Killdee (Apr 22, 2014)

I put a limbsaver slip pad I found at Walmart on that 220b 20 before I shot it, glad I did, it barked me a bit.


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## nrh0011 (Apr 22, 2014)

this is going on my list of needs, love what you've done with the gun.


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## Toddmann (Apr 22, 2014)

nrh0011 said:


> this is going on my list of needs, love what you've done with the gun.



Thanks. It was a fun project.


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## ryanwhit (Apr 22, 2014)

I didn't get to tote mine much this year...killed one with it and missed one clean at 18 yards with it.  Thus how I know my 20 yard pattern...checked it that afternoon.  Look forward to using it again next year.  It really is a sweet little gun.


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## GLS (Apr 23, 2014)

ryanwhit said:


> I didn't get to tote mine much this year...killed one with it and missed one clean at 18 yards with it.  Thus how I know my 20 yard pattern...checked it that afternoon.  Look forward to using it again next year.  It really is a sweet little gun.


How distant was the kill?
I completed an all guage slam this year (excepting 16 and 28 gauges).  I had done it with 10, 12, and 20 gauges, but never with a .410.  I had worked a bird for 3.5 hours and he finally was in range at about 30 steps.  I flat missed him and have yet to figure out why.  This was my first miss with the .410.  Gil


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## ryanwhit (Apr 23, 2014)

GLS said:


> How distant was the kill?
> I completed an all guage slam this year (excepting 16 and 28 gauges).  I had done it with 10, 12, and 20 gauges, but never with a .410.  I had worked a bird for 3.5 hours and he finally was in range at about 30 steps.  I flat missed him and have yet to figure out why.  This was my first miss with the .410.  Gil



The kill was at 24 or 26 yards.






The miss was nice and close.  The bird was walking a roadbed up a small ridge.  I was set up off one side of the ridge, so when he was on the backbone of it in the roadbed, I could only see his upper half - maybe less.  He gobbled 200 times on the roost, most of which I was watching, then he flew down, gobbled a few times, and then came the 30 or 40 yards he needed to.  I had a small window to shoot through as he was walking, and I'm pretty sure I lifted my head to watch him fall.  That, or I just plain shanked it.  That's why I patterned it at 20 yards that afternoon - to make sure the sight was still good and to see how big the pattern was.  Nearly all of the shot load was in the circle - I think it would be very hard to wound one at that distance...it's either a dead turkey or a clean miss.


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## GLS (Apr 23, 2014)

Nice photo.


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## Toddmann (Apr 23, 2014)

ryanwhit said:


> The kill was at 24 or 26 yards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a sweet photo. I put a sightmark on my gun I got second hand. So far it is working great. Been shooting carpenter bees with it in the after noon with some cheap 2.5" #9 loads. Lots of fun. I got a burris FF2 I am gonna put on the the Savage 220B.


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## GLS (Apr 23, 2014)

I wish that my 220B .410 wasn't  as heavy as it is.  Mine is almost a full pound heavier than my 220A 20.


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## hawglips (Apr 23, 2014)

GLS said:


> I wish that my 220B .410 wasn't  as heavy as it is.  Mine is almost a full pound heavier than my 220A 20.



Yeah, I'd carry my 1100 .410 a lot more if it wasn't so heavy.  It's almost like a 12 gauge, so I just carry the CZ 28 instead.


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