# Our Minimalization of doctrine.



## Ronnie T (Nov 15, 2014)

Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
Are they even important today?

Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. (1 Timothy 4:16)


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## centerpin fan (Nov 15, 2014)

I think there's a strong correlation between the minimization of doctrine and turning a worship service into a Hollywood production.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 15, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
> Are they even important today?
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?
> ...



Excellent topic, particularly with the focus you have given.
I must be a little cautious, as doctrine is not a word that I understand.
But freedom…for us is that not the absence of slavery to anything and everything other than our Lord?  Isn’t that what the Law, the Prophets, Christ, the Apostles, and the Spirit teach?


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## hobbs27 (Nov 15, 2014)

Paul taught freedom from law, sin, and death. I dont care anything at all about returning to what Jesus brought us out of....but I know that's probably not your intention either.


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## Day trip (Nov 15, 2014)

Life in the United States is too easy to need God today.  Just remember when we were kids, when toys were special because they were rarely received. When we ate what was on the plate or we didn't eat.  Nowadays, you can buy toys cheap at every store so we not only have them, we expect them.  Food is so readily available that we push our dinner plates back and go get something else out of the fridge.  And we stop praying because quite simply, things happen and it doesn't seen to help to pray.  We can still make it on our own without God, without prayer, without the doctrines of Christ because we mistake Being alive and getting by for truely living.  We are living in a free country, we can do what we want.  We see others with nice things and we need, we deserve nice things.  Not realizing that we have not done the work and put forth the effort to afford nice things.   It's ok, we can run up credit cards and there is no penalty.  We can declare bankruptcy and get a fresh start and still afford cell phones and HD television, even though we can never purchase a house again but it's ok, it doesn't take much to have a crappy apartment and buy new clothes but not pay our debts.  Heck, if it gets really bad the government will pay you to sit at home.  Who needs doctrine?  Who needs truth?  We can live a lie and still get by just fine.  

The doctrines of Christ are not separable from daily living.  But in this country we don't need to follow doctrines of a society or of Christ because we can still make it on our own.  This is exactly why so many people are so miserable and constantly complain.  "Oh pray for me y'all, life is so hard".  And yet life is not hard in the United States.  It is easy and if you work the system you can get by.  These folks want prayers, they want to win the God lottery so they can continue to live a lie, never seeing that the reason they are miserable is not because they can't make payments but because they are failing to live according to the doctrines of Christ.  
So the doctrines of Christ are secondary to those living a lie,  they are "free" and can do what they want.  That is the root of all the misery, whining and complaining in the U.S. today.  So yes, we can live our entire lives, distracted from the doctrines of Christ because we are free.  Buying what we can't afford, living a standard that many in other countries would give anything for, while we complain about our lives because our neighbor has a new car and we can't get one too.  But the doctrines are just as pertinent today as they were 2000 years ago,  it's just that its too easy to get by living a lie to put forth the effort to live the truth.  Not knowing that the only pathway to peace, to happiness is through God and those doctrines.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 15, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Paul taught freedom from law, sin, and death. I dont care anything at all about returning to what Jesus brought us out of....but I know that's probably not your intention either.



I do not want to undo anything which Jesus did, nor do I think that Paul taught anything incorrectly.  What men teach about both often leaves me shaking my head, which may relate to my failure to understand the word doctrine.


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## gordon 2 (Nov 15, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
> Are they even important today?
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?
> ...




In these few words on doctrine there grows the seed of doctrine itself, which is to my view " you will save both yourself and those who hear you." The seed of " save yourself by doing X" be it your choice must certainly form part of salvific doctrine itself ---as it was ever fundamental! Amen.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 15, 2014)

Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. (1 Timothy 4:16)

What doctrine was Paul referring  in this Pastoral Epistle? The Good News or rules? What was Paul relating to in Timothy saving himself and others from? 
What spiritual gift did Timothy receive by the laying of the hands of the elders? 

I believe the ancient teaching of the "Good News" has not become secondary. I believe my freedom from sin has been preserved.
I do believe that I must save myself and others from false teachings. We must endure to the end.


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## hobbs27 (Nov 16, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> I do not want to undo anything which Jesus did, nor do I think that Paul taught anything incorrectly.  What men teach about both often leaves me shaking my head, which may relate to my failure to understand the word doctrine.



 Doctrine ( teaching) in itself is not bad. It's false doctrine we are warned of, and doctrine is proved false by the scriptures which are given to us for that purpose 2Timothy 3:16.

 I have found that many of us prefer the comforts of what we have been indoctrinated in by family and church vs scripture. To me scripture and the spirit supercedes any man's sermon, teaching, and church doctrine.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 16, 2014)

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Has this time come or did it happen in Timothy's lifetime? I guess history does repeat itself but what was the time of Paul's prophesy? If in our time, why did Paul warn Timothy?


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 16, 2014)

Perhaps we all have itching ears and need our Pastors to reel us back to the correct doctrine. I guess if one is so inclined, he'll just find a Church that satisfies regardless of the doctrine they teach.

I do agree with what Hobbs said "many of us prefer the comforts of what we have been indoctrinated in by family and church vs scripture."
Many believe their Church's doctrine is correct without comparing it to God's doctrine.


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## gordon 2 (Nov 16, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> 2 Timothy 4:3
> For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
> 
> Has this time come or did it happen in Timothy's lifetime? I guess history does repeat itself but what was the time of Paul's prophesy? If in our time, why did Paul warn Timothy?



It was happening then as it will ever happen.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 16, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
> Are they even important today?
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?
> ...


That verse in it's context if I recall is basically about false teaching, not directions for living. A big argument from this verse could be that one could loose his salvation??? Maybe another thread. But for the wording of your OP. I see freedom as freedom of the "have to's" for exchange of the "want to's". I explain it like this. A family member works his family's farm to better his own future. A slave does it because he had to.


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## 1gr8bldr (Nov 16, 2014)

I believe in an unteachable doctrine. Life in the Spirit which is in direct opposition to todays modern day "how to white wash a tomb". Self help books are 95% of Christian book sales. One of my last preachers spent his entire ministry trying to teach people how to act . He read every self help book known to man. And he intended to teach it. As if he were the HS himself. Blasphemy of the HS will not be forgiven. It directly opposes God's new covenant, as if 1000's of years recorded in the OT had not already proven that man could not change his nature.... but needed a new nature, one where man no longer teaches his neighbor but puts to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Doctrine ( teaching) in itself is not bad. It's false doctrine we are warned of, and doctrine is proved false by the scriptures which are given to us for that purpose 2Timothy 3:16.
> 
> I have found that many of us prefer the comforts of what we have been indoctrinated in by family and church vs scripture. To me scripture and the spirit supercedes any man's sermon, teaching, and church doctrine.





> Paul taught freedom from law, sin, and death.



"Romans 7:
 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful."

Would Paul teach freedom from that which is good; that which he claims as a tool, used by the Spirit, in his personal sanctification? (Rm. 7:7-11)

"Romans 8:
1.Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (or law of sin and death)."

“law of sin and of death” or “law of sin and death”, not “law, sin, and death”

There is no reference here to the Law of God given through Moses (including "law of the Spirit...").  Rather, law is used in the figurative sense; a precept, or perhaps a doctrine.

Alternative Translation:
"2. For the law of the Spirit of life [a]has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death."

Nothing here to change the comments above.


But my post had to do with the nature of our freedom in Christ.



hummerpoo said:


> But freedom…for us is that not the absence of slavery to anything and everything other than our Lord?


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## Israel (Nov 16, 2014)

If you want someone's eyes to glaze over with the "veil"...simply tell them what _you think_ they need to know.
If you're after a heart, because yours has been captured, you may see something else.


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## hobbs27 (Nov 16, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> Would Paul teach freedom from that which is good; that which he claims as a tool, used by the Spirit, in his personal sanctification? (Rm. 7:7-11)



I'd like to answer this Question without getting too deep or derailing the subject. The answer is Yes.  It wasn't the law in itself but man's inability to follow. Christ freed us from the death brought on by sin, that was a result of our inability to follow the law.
 Now through freedom in Christ grace abounds. I think that is Paul's message, maybe I'm wrong but I'm giving my opinion here and not indoctrination.


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## gordon 2 (Nov 16, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> Excellent topic, particularly with the focus you have given.
> I must be a little cautious, as doctrine is not a word that I understand.
> But freedom…for us is that not the absence of slavery to anything and everything other than our Lord?  Isn’t that what the Law, the Prophets, Christ, the Apostles, and the Spirit teach?



I think oppression in all forms is the anti of our Lord. The love from God is not oppressive, it is freeing to what the purpose of our origin is meant to be. That love in us not only frees us, it frees the people surrounding us.

 However what freedom often means to us is freedom to worship, ( that is perhaps our wild doctine) which was from the beginning competition for individual spirituality and material property and the roots of our quarrelsome democracy. The forge of the man called "us".   And in some ways I don't think  that this "us" is what Jesus has in mind as the zenith of what man is meant to be. But I might be wrong. 

Maybe, perhaps, kinda.... etc.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 16, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> I'd like to answer this Question without getting too deep or derailing the subject. The answer is Yes.  It wasn't the law in itself but man's inability to follow. Christ freed us from the death brought on by sin, that was a result of our inability to follow the law.
> Now through freedom in Christ grace abounds. I think that is Paul's message, maybe I'm wrong but I'm giving my opinion here and not indoctrination.



Sin is not “a result of our inability to follow the law” (Rm. 5:13a) but the result of “the fall” (Rm. 5:12).  The Law reveals sin (Rm. 5:13b)
“Grace abounds” because of the transgressions revealed by the Law (Rm. 5:20).
These verses do not stand alone.

If  the purpose of the Law were to bring about salvation (regeneration, justification, sanctification), then man’s inability to follow the Law would be something from which freeing would be beneficial; the objective being that creation will glorify the Creator, which He accomplishes by revealing Himself to His creatures through the creation itself, and  through His people as He blesses them. (Ezekiel 36 reveals the framework, along with a bunch of others)

But the purpose of the Law is not salvation; it is to reveal sin so that God will be glorified before His creation by the resulting mercy shown by grace.  Isn’t it great that we are such prolific sinners?  No. (Rm. 6)


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## hummerpoo (Nov 16, 2014)

gordon 2 said:


> I think oppression in all forms is the anti of our Lord. The love from God is not oppressive, it is freeing to what the purpose of our origin is meant to be. That love in us not only frees us, it frees the people surrounding us.
> 
> Maybe, perhaps, kinda.... etc.



Voluntary servitude.

Sorta, Kinda...


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## hobbs27 (Nov 17, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> Sin is not “a result of our inability to follow the law” (Rm. 5:13a) but the result of “the fall” (Rm. 5:12).  The Law reveals sin (Rm. 5:13b)
> “Grace abounds” because of the transgressions revealed by the Law (Rm. 5:20).
> These verses do not stand alone.



Sin is indeed breaking commandment of God, and until Christ atonement and the new covenant man died as a result of sin exposed by Law even sin from the fall, but Christ restored the fall and through faith in Him we have everlasting life! <<<---  Now that's doctrine I'll stake my life on. John 3:16





> If  the purpose of the Law were to bring about salvation (regeneration, justification, sanctification),



 It wasn't.


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## hobbs27 (Nov 17, 2014)

http://advaita.proboards.com/thread/168/crucified-christ-galatians-20-number


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## formula1 (Nov 17, 2014)

*Re:*

When I read this scripture, I see:

1) His divine power
2) All things that pertain to life and godliness
3) Precious and very great promises
4) Partakers of the divine nature
5) having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire

It seems that God completed His work and did it very well, giving each everything they need in Christ.  The trouble seems to be that we still want to inject our will into it all.  And 'our will' is the rub, the issue with doctrine following, as it always is.  The heart must come to say as scripture repeats, 'For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God'!

In the Spirit, we just need reckon ourselves dead!  Think about it! Following Christ doctrine is not very difficult if we are truly dead!

Admittedly, I am still dying!

2 Peter 1
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which He has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


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## hobbs27 (Nov 17, 2014)

No Jesus, no life. Know Jesus, know life!!!


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## SemperFiDawg (Nov 18, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?.......
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?




In a word;Yes.


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## EverGreen1231 (Nov 18, 2014)

People seem to think that Freedom and "religious experience" are inversely proportional to the adherence of doctrine; this is dangerous and untrue.

F = k (1/D)

The more doctrine you follow, the less freedom you have. This makes a lot of sense: it's logical (kinda like God is Love, but Love is not God. One of the many places where scripture deviates from our perception of what is logical.); however, it is not what the scripture teaches. The scripture says the more doctrine you follow the more freedom you have: a more abundant life.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 18, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
> Are they even important today?
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?
> ...



The teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the apostles are far more important to us than just historical data.

More from the same chapter.


7 But [c]have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; 8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. 10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

11 Prescribe and teach these things. 12 Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example [e]of those who believe. 13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. 14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. 15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all. 16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

In Christ, we have been freed from that which could prevent discipleship.


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## gordon 2 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> The teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the apostles are far more important to us than just historical data.
> 
> More from the same chapter.
> 
> ...



I like this, I like this alot.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 18, 2014)

EverGreen1231 said:


> People seem to think that Freedom and "religious experience" are inversely proportional to the adherence of doctrine; this is dangerous and untrue.
> 
> F = k (1/D)
> 
> The more doctrine you follow, the less freedom you have. This makes a lot of sense: it's logical (kinda like God is Love, but Love is not God. One of the many places where scripture deviates from our perception of what is logical.); however, it is not what the scripture teaches. The scripture says the more doctrine you follow the more freedom you have: a more abundant life.



God is indeed DIRECT.
F=kD

And how awesome that He creates each of us with a different "k" and the Spirit guides accordingly when "S" (self) isn't in the equation.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 18, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> The teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the apostles are far more important to us than just historical data.
> 
> More from the same chapter.
> 
> ...



Ronnie, please forgive my messing with a great post.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 18, 2014)

hobbs27 said:


> Sin is indeed breaking commandment of God, and until Christ atonement and the new covenant man died as a result of sin exposed by Law even sin from the fall, but Christ restored the fall and through faith in Him we have everlasting life! <<<---  Now that's doctrine I'll stake my life on. John 3:16



God has created a record of His creation which we call the Scriptures or the Bible. How we view that record influences, or maybe even determines, our relationship with God.

Two, not accurate, and only roughly representative examples:

The Law and the Prophets is a record of a bunch of mostly bumbling men and women who messed everything up so badly that a loving God had to send his Son to change the management of creation so that those who believe can be saved.

The Law and the Prophets is a record of a loving God who continually works with a bunch of mostly bumbling men and women, leading them toward understanding of the management of creation, even sending His Son as an example to be followed.

No variant of these representative views changes the truth of the highlighted portion of your post.



Quote:
"If the purpose of the Law were to bring about salvation (regeneration, justification, sanctification)," 


> It wasn't.


I should not have included sanctification in the parentheses.

Not as far as I can tell.  To the previous we can add Rm. 3:28-4:25 where Paul explains that justification by faith precedes the Law, and that the promise to Abraham and his descendants was not for his descendants in the flesh, but for his descendants in the faith.

I wanted to respond to this because I am fascinated by our conversation’s backward walk through Romans.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 19, 2014)

I guess one could say God created a perfect world but man(Adam) messed it up. If not Adam then Artfuldodger would have or some other less than perfect individual. We can't even blame Adam or the Jews because it would be impossible to live a sinless life.
This is why the "Word" is so important. God knew from the beginning he would need to send his Son and thus the reason for the "Word."
Yes God created a record of his creation but he didn't stop there. His "Word" is a record of his beginning, middle, and ending or should we say; our beginning, middle, and end?


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 19, 2014)

Back to the OP; do Christians use their freedom from sin, to sin?
Yes.


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## Israel (Nov 19, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Back to the OP; do Christians use their freedom from sin, to sin?
> Yes.




If the above is true, then "those" christians in particular, have no need of ever wondering about the shortcomings of their first parents after the flesh. They need simply to look to themselves for understanding of such, if they so desire it.


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 19, 2014)

Israel said:


> If the above is true, then "those" christians in particular, have no need of ever wondering about the shortcomings of their first parents after the flesh. They need simply to look to themselves for understanding of such, if they so desire it.



This is why the washing is so important. With my new birth I am no longer yoked with my sin. 
I don't use this as an excuse to sin but to explain why I still sin. I don't use my freedom to distant myself from God's doctrine of loving him and others. In fact it actually strengthens my desire to love God and others.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 20, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Back to the OP; do Christians use their freedom from sin, to sin?
> Yes.





Israel said:


> If the above is true, then "those" christians in particular, have no need of ever wondering about the shortcomings of their first parents after the flesh. They need simply to look to themselves for understanding of such, if they so desire it.



I've asked myself a question:  If Christ has died for me, and if I have been touched by Him, then who gets the fault for all my future sins??????????

The truth.  God has equipped me to live a sinless life.  I get the blame for my sin.  Except, the blood of Jesus will cleanses me from my sin.  

Sounds like a good excuse to sin.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 20, 2014)

Artfuldodger said:


> Back to the OP; do Christians use their freedom from sin, to sin?
> Yes.





Ronnie T said:


> I've asked myself a question:  If Christ has died for me, and if I have been touched by Him, then who gets the fault for all my future sins??????????
> 
> The truth.  God has equipped me to live a sinless life.  I get the blame for my sin.  Except, the blood of Jesus will cleanses me from my sin.
> 
> Sounds like a good excuse to sin.





hummerpoo said:


> But freedom…for us is that not the absence of slavery to anything and everything other than our Lord?





hummerpoo said:


> Isn’t it great that we are such prolific sinners?  No. (Rm. 6)



1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! 

6 … so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 … For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I have posted a chopped up version of Romans 6 to shorten the post, hoping that it will excite to a more thorough study.


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## Israel (Nov 20, 2014)

A relationship takes as long as ordained. Finding out I am not God in this place where the temptation is so strong to "take the reins...direct...toward "my own ends"...and bumping into my Lord standing rightly in the way, at first seems a sorrow...till I awake and see who I have ignorantly bumped into. Of course...he is Lord! He shows again what I, in meagerness of understanding, proclaim...and by grace, brings me to be glad. He shows roots severed, but in some way holding an influence, a bent of "my own" to have "my own" way. But...HE is the way! He reminds, again, in and by grace, it will not always be so...all the seems will disappear in the instant his appearing is manifest...fully...and the patience he shows this weakest disciple...will bring about the perfection he desires...even as he waits...for me...I too will be made, as shall we all, soon and very soon, made perfect in our patience for the one for whom our soul longs, for whom we are made. His singleness of eye...upon us for our good...will soon show through us, the singleness of eye...that both obscures, and delivers us from the very impoverished bent we have toward our own will.
The most insidious thing, is also the most completely vanquished thing he demonstrates in his glorious triumph over the world, the flesh, and the devil...that a thing once convinced love as a means to an end, is revealed as the very end...and beginning of all things.


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## hummerpoo (Nov 21, 2014)

Israel said:


> A relationship takes as long as ordained. Finding out I am not God in this place where the temptation is so strong to "take the reins...direct...toward "my own ends"...and bumping into my Lord standing rightly in the way, at first seems a sorrow...till I awake and see who I have ignorantly bumped into. Of course...he is Lord! He shows again what I, in meagerness of understanding, proclaim...and by grace, brings me to be glad. He shows roots severed, but in some way holding an influence, a bent of "my own" to have "my own" way. But...HE is the way! He reminds, again, in and by grace, it will not always be so...all the seems will disappear in the instant his appearing is manifest...fully...and the patience he shows this weakest disciple...will bring about the perfection he desires...even as he waits...for me...I too will be made, as shall we all, soon and very soon, made perfect in our patience for the one for whom our soul longs, for whom we are made. His singleness of eye...upon us for our good...will soon show through us, the singleness of eye...that both obscures, and delivers us from the very impoverished bent we have toward our own will.
> The most insidious thing, is also the most completely vanquished thing he demonstrates in his glorious triumph over the world, the flesh, and the devil...that a thing once convinced love as a means to an end, is revealed as the very end...and beginning of all things.



What seems obscure is brought to clarity when passed through the sieve of wisdom.

Well said.


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## Jeffriesw (Dec 29, 2014)

Ronnie T said:


> Have the ancient teachings (Christ and His apostles) become secondary?
> Are they even important today?
> 
> Or are we so 'eat up' with the notion of 'freedom' (whatever one might believe freedom really is), that we care little about the preciseness of God's teachings?
> ...



Yes, and I think we (speaking collectively) do not understand the freedom that Christ bought for us.


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