# Winchester Long Beard XR



## klemsontigers7

Who has shot this stuff?  When I walked up to the paper this sunday after shooting at 40 yds I went  .  

In my gun it patterns better than Hevi.  Also, there is more muzzle energy per pellet than Hevi #6.  I still need to figure out how much energy is retained down range as the Hevi will tend to catch up a little bit.  I shot the 3.5" and the 3" and the 3.5" did better in my M3500.  I tried many different combinations (6 different chokes, 6 different shells as well) and the LongBeards came out on top.

I'm sure people will come in here and fault Winchester for saying this extends the killing range.  I, for one, don't think it extends the range as far as energy, just pattern density.  The patterns looked pretty evenly spread but I've got one more choke to try them in.  I'm looking for about 170-180 in the 10" circle at 40 yds but want more out in the 10-15" circle and I think I have the ticket.

My best pattern out of the Stoeger M3500 was with Long Beard 3.5" #6 out of a Primos TightWad.  I shot the Tightwad, Kicks, Truglo, Comp-n-choke XX Full, Comp-n-choke XXX Full, and Rhino.  The $20 Tightwad out performed the $109 Rhino.


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## stringmusic

Wow, very interesting. I shoot a M3500 too and have shot Hevi #6's in the past through a Primos Jellyhead with fantastic results, but I might have to give these LB's a try.


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## mossyoakpro

These shells may make Hevi consider a price change....Well done Winchester, well done!!

The only issue I have with them is the marketing strategy of saying they shoot out to 70 yards or whatever it is....Hevi does the same thing with Mag Blend so you get some yahoo taking shots and crippling birds at these crazy ranges because the box says it will do it.

Other than that it appears to be great ammo and just what we needed to make turkey hunting more affordable again.


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## SCDieselDawg

They are going to put a hurt in' on Hevi's profits for sure. And the Turkeys don't stand a chance! My Mossy. 935 patterns the 3.5" LongBeard #4s exactly the same as Winchesters XX  3.5" #5s.

I wish they would come up with a load for the 20s also!!


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## klemsontigers7

mossyoakpro said:


> These shells may make Hevi consider a price change....Well done Winchester, well done!!
> 
> The only issue I have with them is the marketing strategy of saying they shoot out to 70 yards or whatever it is....Hevi does the same thing with Mag Blend so you get some yahoo taking shots and crippling birds at these crazy ranges because the box says it will do it.
> 
> Other than that it appears to be great ammo and just what we needed to make turkey hunting more affordable again.



Yep.  I had 12 boxes of Hevi and was so excited about the Longbeard that I sold every box I had.  At 1/3 of the price it's hard not to use it.  Now, I have no problem paying $6/shell when the turkey is standing there, but it really adds up when you pattern different loads and shells.  The price goes up every year.  I think I saw Hevi #6 is $33 at Cabela's this year.


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## Bucky T

I still have about 9 Winchester Extended Range 3.5" #5s

They are the best shell I've ever fired.  Absolutley Wicked!  They pattern great out of my Kick's .665

Think I'm going to get an Indian Creek choke and try some Nitro 7's too this season.


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## hawglips

klemsontigers7 said:


> Also, there is more muzzle energy per pellet than Hevi #6.  I still need to figure out how much energy is retained down range as the Hevi will tend to catch up a little bit.



The Hevi 6s will carry more penetration energy than Longbeard 6s even though they are 100+ fps slower out of the muzzle.

Here's the penetration energy (measured by penetration depth in ballistics gel, at 32 deg and sea level, per KPY Shotshell Ballistics) of the Longbeard 6s vs Hevi 6s:

10 yds:  LB 6s - 2.65" ; Hevi 6s - 2.73"
20 yds:  LB 6s - 2.23" ; Hevi 6s - 2.33"
30 yds:  LB 6s - 1.87" ; Hevi 6s - 1.98"
40 yds:  LB 6s - 1.56" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.67"
50 yds:  LB 6s - 1.28" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.40"
60 yds:  LB 6s - 1.04" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.16"

And against hard substances, like bone, the difference in real life penetration will be greater, due to the hardness of the Hevishot, which hardness isn't taken into account with the math.



klemsontigers7 said:


> I, for one, don't think it extends the range as far as energy, just pattern density.



As far as energy per pellet, I'd say you're exactly right.  The pellets are still carrying the same energy.  But the difference comes in with the cumulative energy of more pellets hitting the target.

But it's a crying shame they are marketing these as 60 yd plus shells.


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## WFL

I think they will kill on paper at the 60 yard rang.  Now real world have a problem with it at the 60 mark.  Now 40 yards it fine inside 30 you better aim big or miss big. lol


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## Gadget

hawglips said:


> The Hevi 6s will carry more penetration energy than Longbeard 6s even though they are 100+ fps slower out of the muzzle.
> 
> Here's the penetration energy (measured by penetration depth in ballistics gel, at 32 deg and sea level, per KPY Shotshell Ballistics) of the Longbeard 6s vs Hevi 6s:
> 
> 10 yds:  LB 6s - 2.65" ; Hevi 6s - 2.73"
> 20 yds:  LB 6s - 2.23" ; Hevi 6s - 2.33"
> 30 yds:  LB 6s - 1.87" ; Hevi 6s - 1.98"
> 40 yds:  LB 6s - 1.56" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.67"
> 50 yds:  LB 6s - 1.28" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.40"
> 60 yds:  LB 6s - 1.04" ;  Hevi 6s - 1.16"
> 
> And against hard substances, like bone, the difference in real life penetration will be greater, due to the hardness of the Hevishot, which hardness isn't taken into account with the math.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as energy per pellet, I'd say you're exactly right.  The pellets are still carrying the same energy.  But the difference comes in with the cumulative energy of more pellets hitting the target.
> 
> But it's a crying shame they are marketing these as 60 yd plus shells.




yep, yep, and yep. The marketing claims are a real turn off, a shame they have to resort to such outlandish claims; anything to make a buck, even at the expense of more wounded game. Tells you something about a company willing to do that.


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## Reminex

My impression is the Longbeard will be very good for those guys that KNOW what it does and what its for.  Im afraid there will be a lot of people "missing" at 60.  And even more folks "flat out MISSING at 20."  I think this shell is for 35-50 yard shots, if that's the case you should buy hevi or heavyweight. If you are maxing your shots at 35 yards then any $10 a box lead that patterns well will work.  I shot all three of my birds at 15-25 yards last year so yes I waisted some money...but im glad I didn't have this stuff loaded up cause there is a good chance id have missed at least one bird.
Like so many others I don't understand why you wouldn't buy the best shells available at $5 each instead of this longbeard.  Once your sighted in and you have an acceptable pattern I don't see the need in patterning again the next year.   I suspect ill shoot a total of 6 times this year now that im all patterned up in 3 guns.  1 practice round each and 3 dead birds.  Lets go out on a limb and say you shoot 20 times a year just to repattern... dont know why anybody needs that many but ok, thats $100.  20 longbeards would be 40.   Ill spend that much opening weekend on gas.  If you can afford a shotgun you can afford heavy or hevi.  Ill buy the best I can and it aint like I make a bunch of money either.


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## SCDieselDawg

Reminex said:


> My impression is the Longbeard will be very good for those guys that KNOW what it does and what its for.  Im afraid there will be a lot of people "missing" at 60.  And even more folks "flat out MISSING at 20."  I think this shell is for 35-50 yard shots, if that's the case you should buy hevi or heavyweight. If you are maxing your shots at 35 yards then any $10 a box lead that patterns well will work.  I shot all three of my birds at 15-25 yards last year so yes I waisted some money...but im glad I didn't have this stuff loaded up cause there is a good chance id have missed at least one bird.
> Like so many others I don't understand why you wouldn't buy the best shells available at $5 each instead of this longbeard.  Once your sighted in and you have an acceptable pattern I don't see the need in patterning again the next year.   I suspect ill shoot a total of 6 times this year now that im all patterned up in 3 guns.  1 practice round each and 3 dead birds.  Lets go out on a limb and say you shoot 20 times a year just to repattern... dont know why anybody needs that many but ok, thats $100.  20 longbeards would be 40.   Ill spend that much opening weekend on gas.  If you can afford a shotgun you can afford heavy or hevi.  Ill buy the best I can and it aint like I make a bunch of money either.



Why?

If they will do they same thing why spend $6+ on a shell that'll do the same as a $2-3 shell. I like to put as many pellets in a turkeys head as possible. I don't purposely shoot farther than 40yds. So for me the old lead was not quite up to my standards while the price of HTL is no longer justified by its increase of performance, for me! 

I agree the LongBeards will pose problems on up close shots, and will give a false sense of security to some folks. But we shouldn't discredit its abilities because of the laziness of the hunter/shooter.


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## Reminex

SCDieselDawg said:


> Why?
> 
> If they will do they same thing why spend $6+ on a shell that'll do the same as a $2-3 shell.



Because from everything I see hevi or heavy has a more open pattern at <25 yrds and better penetration with just as good pattern denisity where it counts beyond 40.  So yeah itll do a great job from 25-45.  If you know that going in its no different than any other loads limitations.  I have shot fed 7's in a 12 and 20 gauge and their pattern is much more open at 20 yards than the pics ive seen from sumtoy's testing.  At the same time im getting a great kill pattern at 40 and if I mess up on yardage estimation they will still pattern well enough to kill at 50+.
Also the price of Fed heavy is subject to how much shopping around you do.  I can get 3.5" #6 for $4.00 each.  3" #6 for 3.20 each.

I guess my best question is why if someone has invested into hevi and knows its a proven killer and which is at least a little better by all accounts than longbeard would they then drop everything for a new miracle lead load to save 15-50 buck a year.  Im all for trying it, sounds like a great innovation.  I just don't get the money saving aspect of it all, and am very worried people will get false sense of security out of marketing and word of mouth.

If shooting lead over hevi cost me even one bird in the next 30 years it would have been worth it to shoot the hevi in my opinion.


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## The mtn man

Wow! you are really worried about this aren't ya.If you like the heavy loads good, I would keep using them if I were you.


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## klemsontigers7

Reminex said:


> Because from everything I see hevi or heavy has a more open pattern at <25 yrds and better penetration with just as good pattern denisity where it counts beyond 40.  So yeah itll do a great job from 25-45.  If you know that going in its no different than any other loads limitations.  I have shot fed 7's in a 12 and 20 gauge and their pattern is much more open at 20 yards than the pics ive seen from sumtoy's testing.  At the same time im getting a great kill pattern at 40 and if I mess up on yardage estimation they will still pattern well enough to kill at 50+.
> Also the price of Fed heavy is subject to how much shopping around you do.  I can get 3.5" #6 for $4.00 each.  3" #6 for 3.20 each.
> 
> I guess my best question is why if someone has invested into hevi and knows its a proven killer and which is at least a little better by all accounts than longbeard would they then drop everything for a new miracle lead load to save 15-50 buck a year.  Im all for trying it, sounds like a great innovation.  I just don't get the money saving aspect of it all, and am very worried people will get false sense of security out of marketing and word of mouth.
> 
> If shooting lead over hevi cost me even one bird in the next 30 years it would have been worth it to shoot the hevi in my opinion.



"From everything I see..." Have you shot your gun?  I know what my gun does and the Long Beard out performed it as far as pattern density.  I honestly don't care what a shell costs as I don't see $6 as being a big deal when a gobbler is standing there at 30 yds.  If Hevi would make a #6 or #7 that shoots 1200 fps I may reconsider but the difference in energy just isn't there as the Long Beard has more at the muzzle anyways.  Yes I'm sure the Hevi catches up down range as it loses its energy at a slower pace.  I've tried Mag Blends which are 1200 fps and I have never had a good pattern with them.  I know some people post great results, but I think a 6x7 load would be a lot better than a 5x6x7 since the 5 shot are too big for Hevi.


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## The mtn man

klemsontigers7 said:


> "From everything I see..." Have you shot your gun?  I know what my gun does and the Long Beard out performed it as far as pattern density.  I honestly don't care what a shell costs as I don't see $6 as being a big deal when a gobbler is standing there at 30 yds.  If Hevi would make a #6 or #7 that shoots 1200 fps I may reconsider but the difference in energy just isn't there as the Long Beard has more at the muzzle anyways.  Yes I'm sure the Hevi catches up down range as it loses its energy at a slower pace.  I've tried Mag Blends which are 1200 fps and I have never had a good pattern with them.  I know some people post great results, but I think a 6x7 load would be a lot better than a 5x6x7 since the 5 shot are too big for Hevi.



I tried the #7 heavy last year, 2 birds got a way wounded shot at 50 yds,with good pattern, I have dropped birds that far with lead #5s before, so extra money not justified there, also the heavy 13 loads, I could never be confident from lot to lot what kind of pattern I was gonna get, I really had the best results from the win. ext range #5, but I just never can find them, The nitro company loads are just awesome, but I'm not paying $10 per shot,so after hearing testimonies from the longbeard loads from folks like you, I have ordered some, this may be a cost effective way to get them 50 yard birds, but that has pretty much been my limit all along 50yds.I can't wait to try them.


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## klemsontigers7

cklem said:


> I tried the #7 heavy last year, 2 birds got a way wounded shot at 50 yds,with good pattern, I have dropped birds that far with lead #5s before, so extra money not justified there, also the heavy 13 loads, I could never be confident from lot to lot what kind of pattern I was gonna get, I really had the best results from the win. ext range #5, but I just never can find them, The nitro company loads are just awesome, but I'm not paying $10 per shot,so after hearing testimonies from the longbeard loads from folks like you, I have ordered some, this may be a cost effective way to get them 50 yard birds, but that has pretty much been my limit all along 50yds.I can't wait to try them.



I like that the Nitro loads are 1200 fps with like 2 7/16 oz of shot  I don't, however, see the need to take up room in the shell with 4 and 5 MegaWeight.  2x5x7, 4x5x6, and 4x5x7 Hevi-Shot just doesn't make sense to me.


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## The mtn man

klemsontigers7 said:


> I like that the Nitro loads are 1200 fps with like 2 7/16 oz of shot  I don't, however, see the need to take up room in the shell with 4 and 5 MegaWeight.  2x5x7, 4x5x6, and 4x5x7 Hevi-Shot just doesn't make sense to me.


I will be honest, I kind of liked the maga weight shot, for reasons that will make some cringe, I have body shot a few birds with them with DRT results. I have even dropped a couple that spooked bad on the wing.I mean every bird I shot at were dead, however my cutoff is 50yds, and 25 yds for body shot.Now I'm ready for the artillary to start coming in after saying that, LOL.I would have to try a penetration test with the #4 long beards I order before I would try this with them.


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## Reminex

klemsontigers7 said:


> "From everything I see..." Have you shot your gun?  I know what my gun does and the Long Beard out performed it as far as pattern density.  I honestly don't care what a shell costs as I don't see $6 as being a big deal when a gobbler is standing there at 30 yds.  If Hevi would make a #6 or #7 that shoots 1200 fps I may reconsider but the difference in energy just isn't there as the Long Beard has more at the muzzle anyways.  Yes I'm sure the Hevi catches up down range as it loses its energy at a slower pace.  I've tried Mag Blends which are 1200 fps and I have never had a good pattern with them.  I know some people post great results, but I think a 6x7 load would be a lot better than a 5x6x7 since the 5 shot are too big for Hevi.



I have not shot it through my gun, but I have been there to see someone shooting it.  I dont need to shoot it to know what itll pattern like as Ive seen it first hand and at least a hundred pattern pics of it at various yardage. So shooting it would be for fun as what ive seen from pattern testing tells me it will not outpattern what im shooting now at less than 25 yards.  Does your gun pattern better at 20 yards for you with longbeard than hevi?  If it does then I stand corrected, I know what ive seen and it aint close to a good pattern at 20.   I also know it will not kill better at 40 or 50 than what im shooting now.  Cause dead is dead as people say.  I know for a fact any bird less than 50 will die when I pull the trigger with fed heavy.  So if I can have a shell that patterns good from 0-50, I dont see why anyone would save a few dollars and sacrifice so much in the 0-25 yrd range which I know most of the birds I kill are.


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## Reminex

cklem said:


> Wow! you are really worried about this aren't ya.If you like the heavy loads good, I would keep using them if I were you.



Not worried, just bored and just saying is all.  So far the only reason I can gather to use longbeard over hevi is price, not performance.  Just saying those few dimes are a drop in the bucket as far as turkey hunting is concerned.  Ill let yall have at it and just cringe when all the "I missed with Longbeard" threads start popping up.


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## klemsontigers7

Reminex said:


> Not worried, just bored and just saying is all.  So far the only reason I can gather to use longbeard over hevi is price, not performance.  Just saying those few dimes are a drop in the bucket as far as turkey hunting is concerned.  Ill let yall have at it and just cringe when all the "I missed with Longbeard" threads start popping up.



Didn't see any of those threads last year, and plenty of people were using it.


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## icdedturkes

I have not seen a new shell get this much attention on the boards in a long long time..


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## Reminex

klemsontigers7 said:


> Didn't see any of those threads last year, and plenty of people were using it.



I didnt know it was available to anyone who frequents our boards until recently.  I didnt know anyone who actually hunted with it last year either.


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## Reminex

icdedturkes said:


> I have not seen a new shell get this much attention on the boards in a long long time..



For sure!  Ill say it has its place and will be a proven killer, and itll take down some long range gobblers for a good price.  Huge step up from regular turkey loads as far as the beyond 35 range is concerned.


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## Brad C.

I thinks somebody needs to try some different  Hevi-13 loads to lay claims this stuff will out shoot it.  Lead loads with the same size loads won't beat out Hevi-13 loads.  Nor will they have the penetration of Hevi-13 in the same size shot.


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## mossyoakpro

icdedturkes said:


> I have not seen a new shell get this much attention on the boards in a long long time..



Especially lead loads...


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## WFL

Well it is a hunters shell.  It is one of the best things out for the guys  that want to kill birds.  (now not the oh I see him lets shoot guy and HWT is not for them either)   This load will stand toe to toe with the HTL stuff as in patterns and at 40 yards kill a bird all day long. (How dead is dead)  It is going to come in at less money and do the job. Now one thing I ask is folks spend 1000 on gun have bag full of calls  (money ?) all the time and gas to find a place then not want to spend few buck on a shell.


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## Gadget

I handload and shoot all types of of shot at turkey, TSS, TS, Heavyweight, Hevishot, lead, RSI. In last few years I've been carrying some type of HTL load and lead loads with me in the vest all the time, depending on the setup I'll switch between them. I've killed 5 or so with lead #7's in the 20ga, furthest shot was about 35yrds.

Here's my pattern at 30yds, #7 lead, 20ga; plenty to get the job done.








Here's one at 40 with same load


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## klemsontigers7

Gadget,

What kind of velocities are you getting out of 20 gauge #7 lead?


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## Gadget

klemsontigers7 said:


> Gadget,
> 
> What kind of velocities are you getting out of 20 gauge #7 lead?



1150, could push em much faster if wanted but there's no need as long as I shoot less than 40yds; run my HTL loads slower. One thing I've learned over the years of handloading, you don't need to push shells near as fast as people think to kill a turkey; hype and marketing by the manufactures.


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## SCDieselDawg

WFL said:


> Well it is a hunters shell.  It is one of the best things out for the guys  that want to kill birds.  (now not the oh I see him lets shoot guy and HWT is not for them either)   This load will stand toe to toe with the HTL stuff as in patterns and at 40 yards kill a bird all day long. (How dead is dead)  It is going to come in at less money and do the job. Now one thing I ask is folks spend 1000 on gun have bag full of calls  (money ?) all the time and gas to find a place then not want to spend few buck on a shell.





This is a common amongst hunters. Just go ask the Deer Hunting forum which bullet thy prefer to shoot at deer with. ( bet you'll see Coreloct,power points, blue box Federals)


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## klemsontigers7

SCDieselDawg said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> This is a common amongst hunters. Just go ask the Deer Hunting forum which bullet thy prefer to shoot at deer with. ( bet you'll see Coreloct,power points, blue box Federals)



SCDieselDawg, how did that JellyHead work out?


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## SCDieselDawg

klemsontigers7 said:


> SCDieselDawg, how did that JellyHead work out?



Haven't tried it yet, may not for a while with this cold windy weather. But its day is coming. I've got a couple boxes of mag blends and hopefully a few H-13 #6s to run through it. Also got some lead 5s that'll get run through it as well.


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## The mtn man

I got mine in the mail and tried them this morning, shot the #4 through a .670 custome choke, all I can say is wow!!!, I didn't bother counting but deffinatly dead at 40yds, also it appeared that all the shot went through 1/2" plywood with no problem, I will be confident at 50yds, also shot the #6 through my sons gun .655 kicks choke, pattern was very dense, only thing was the pattern seems to be a little bit below aim point, no problem, if he holds on the head instead of the neck.Both loads definatly have a more dense and uniform pattern than heavy 13, or fed heavy weight, I compared them all.I would think if shot goes through 1/2" plywood with no problem, it will make jelly.


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## klemsontigers7

Reminex, I dailed my FF3 in at 20 yds and the Longbeards weren't much tighter than a buddy's 835 with Federal Turkey Thugs.  I'm still not sure why you're trying to say they would be too tight at 20 yds.


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## Reminex

Wow, thought everyone left this thread alone.  
I do say it is to tight at 20.  BTW I would love to see anyones pattern results at 20.  Im interested to see what everyone else is getting.  I read all the time how federal hw with the flight control shoots to tight at 20, that may be the case but none of my guns shoot HW as tight as what ive seen longbeard shoot both in person and on the web.  In fact its not even close,  and if I can ever get my hands on some more longbeard 5 or 6 ill be happy to put up the evidence.  Longbeard so far has proven to be a far superior load at long range to generic plated turkey loads.  It is a great new innovation and will kill the mess outta some birds this year.  It will reduce the number of crippled birds at the 40-50 yard mark and itll allow a few extra to walk that were at 20.


My whole purpose of responding to this thread is not to judge anyones desicion on hunting with longbeard, it is to question why so many would abandon a perfectly great shell that is in all respects better at killing turkeys than longbeard and they spent years to perfect in their guns *just to save 10-20 bucks a year.*  I just really want to know if im missing something.  I like to gather as much info as possible so any insight would be great.  If money really is that big of a concern bulk target 7 1/2s will kill a turkey dead at 30 yards for 20 cents a piece.
Ive yet to see anyone say longbeard is better than hevi or heavy.  In fact most willingly admit longbeard is not better, and not even equal.  If your results show Longbeard is better than no question thats what I would go with.


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## klemsontigers7

I've spent the time with Hevi in 3 different guns.  My best pattern was with Hevi #6 169 in 10" with Remington 870.  My Super Black Eagle that I had last year didn't pattern Magblends or #6's worth anything.  I tried them again this year with the M3500 and again, the Longbeard kills them as far as patterns go.  I shot 6 different chokes this year.


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## klemsontigers7

klemsontigers7 said:


> I've spent the time with Hevi in 3 different guns.  My best pattern was with Hevi #6 169 in 10" with Remington 870.  My Super Black Eagle that I had last year didn't pattern Magblends or #6's worth anything.  I tried them again this year with the M3500 and again, the Longbeard kills them as far as patterns go.  I shot 6 different chokes this year.



Hevi is a great load.  The first year I switched to it I limited out in SC by April 12.  A couple years after that, I killed 8 (5 in SC, 1 in Ga, and 2 in KS).  Last year I downed 4 birds with it.  I'm as excited about carrying Longbeard with me as I ever was with Hevi.


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## ChristopherA.King

Why would you even have to worry about a turkey being farther than 30 yards if you gots skills.....


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## Tom Talker

Gadget said:


> 1150, could push em much faster if wanted but there's no need as long as I shoot less than 40yds; run my HTL loads slower. One thing I've learned over the years of handloading, you don't need to push shells near as fast as people think to kill a turkey; hype and marketing by the manufactures.



I do not handload but have had good luck with the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant nickel plated lead under 40 yrds. They push 1200 FPS and are hard hitting. Still love those FED HWT 7's too.


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## CC RAMBLER

I will use it this year


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## hawglips

Here's a new lead-tungsten duplex shell that will significantly reduce misses at close range, while giving bonafide 60 yd + range at the same time....

20 yds







40 yds


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## boothy

That is straight nasty!  Best of both worlds.


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## stringmusic

hawglips said:


> Here's a new lead-tungsten duplex shell that will significantly reduce misses at close range, while giving bonafide 60 yd + range at the same time....



What's the name of the shell?


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## strutlife

That will sure nough give one a HEADACHE! Im curious too.


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## hawglips

stringmusic said:


> What's the name of the shell?



I was thinking of calling it "In-n-Out Dilemma".  "Dilemma" for short.

It's 2-1/4 oz so it kicks too much for me, even if I wasn't going to be shooting a small bore.


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## antnye

That's awesome Hal! What are the shot sizes?


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## hawglips

antnye said:


> That's awesome Hal! What are the shot sizes?



#7 NP lead with #9 TSS


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