# Winchester Longbeard XR



## strutlife (Dec 26, 2013)

Was wondering if anyone has tried these shells and how much they are?


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## icdedturkes (Dec 26, 2013)

Sum Toy has been shooting them with incredible results.. Price is about 18 bucks for 10...


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## SCDieselDawg (Dec 26, 2013)

icdedturkes said:


> Sum Toy has been shooting them with incredible results.. Price is about 18 bucks for 10...



Yeap!! I saw some pics the other day over on Old Gobbler. I seriously thinking of sending my 870SM down there to see about getting it fitted with one of their chokes.


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## Kwaksmoka (Dec 26, 2013)

I was looking at the same thing. When will they be available? Hopefully this will bring down the price of the HTL loads. Can't wait to try them though.


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## strutlife (Dec 26, 2013)

18.00 for 10 is CHEAP. HTL is either gonna go down or Longbeard XR going up. Better stock up on them. Probly gonna buy quiet a few boxes now from what I've been reading and seeing on OG.


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## strutlife (Dec 26, 2013)

They are available. Think Cabela's has them.


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## RUNnGUN (Dec 26, 2013)

icdedturkes said:


> Sum Toy has been shooting them with incredible results.. Price is about 18 bucks for 10...



Been having good results, but not as good as the Hevi shot shoots.. It is cheaper though.


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## WFL (Dec 26, 2013)

It is a very good load for the money.   It has a pattern that will turn the HTL world up side down if they keep the $$$ in the 18 to 20 a box.  I have not been told the release date on them but must be soon.  I got the go ahead to release all the test stuff.


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## icdedturkes (Dec 26, 2013)

RUNnGUN said:


> Been having good results, but not as good as the Hevi shot shoots.. It is cheaper though.



Can you please show me a Hevi load of 2oz 6s that produces 250 in a 10 inch circle....


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## RUNnGUN (Dec 26, 2013)

icdedturkes said:


> Can you please show me a Hevi load of 2oz 6s that produces 250 in a 10 inch circle....



No, not 6s, but 7s which is what I shoot. Go look at SumToy Facebook page and you will see the picture of 3" Hevi 7s with 309 in 10" @ 40 yards. I'm throwing about the same thing give or take a little with my VersaMax, SumToy, and Hevi 7s 3.5" but I don't take pictures of my pattern. I should've said IMO because, with my setup it'll be real hard to beat the Hevi shot.


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## SCDieselDawg (Dec 26, 2013)

Gonna be hard to compare 7s to 6s when it comes to total #s. But a $20 box of 10 that puts 250 in the 10" trumps 300 plus, that cost $30+ for a box of 5. After all a dead turkey is a dead turkey!


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## Dallen92 (Dec 27, 2013)

icdedturkes said:


> Can you please show me a Hevi load of 2oz 6s that produces 250 in a 10 inch circle....



I was able to get over 250 with 3.5 inch 2.25 oz magblends (5,6,7) at 40. Which i can tell you from experience is absolutely devestating on a turkey at 40 yards because of the knockdown the htl produces. I was able to get my cost on these shells down to less than $3 last year with the rebate hevi shot ran last year so that is why i do shoot them.  I will agree that those are impressive numbers for the win longbeard shells at that price no matter how you look at it.


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## RUNnGUN (Dec 27, 2013)

SCDieselDawg said:


> Gonna be hard to compare 7s to 6s when it comes to total #s. But a $20 box of 10 that puts 250 in the 10" trumps 300 plus, that cost $30+ for a box of 5. After all a dead turkey is a dead turkey!



I couldn't agree with you more! I'm going to stick with what I know will kill one though. Plus, not real sure about those Long beards. Could just be me, or maybe it was explained to me wrong, but the way it was explained tells me that if everything doesn't go just right there could be a disaster.


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## icdedturkes (Dec 27, 2013)

See and thats where one cannot compare 7s or MBs to anything really, nobody knows the compilation of 7s or smaller pellets in each.. 

Before the 7s when everyone shot 6s at 2oz load most would settle in a range of 180-200.. Heck the 2.25oz load of Hevi 6s would struggle to reach 250.. Gotta compare apples to apples.. 56.9% efficiency is getting it done..


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## WFL (Dec 27, 2013)

Well shells are like guns.  You shoot $20 a box of 10 or 
$30 to $40 a box of 5.  Shoot a $300 (870) or a $1500 (SBEII).  Both are dead birds if you do your part (40 yards and in).  It comes down to how much money do you want to spend.  

Now I like the HV13 but not the money they ask for them.  Plus they very form lot to lot at times.   I have seen some of them shoot like junk and some be smoking hot patterns.  


As always how dead is dead.  If you one of them that gets into numbers pick HV13 if you want a dead bird just pick up the lead shell.


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## hawglips (Dec 27, 2013)

WFL said:


> As always how dead is dead.  If you one of them that gets into numbers pick HV13 if you want a dead bird just pick up the lead shell.



It's the ones that don't die that hunters should worry about.  About every survey you look at will show about a 20-25% "miss" rate.  I figure most of those "misses" are birds that are hit.  A couple years back there was a survey on another forum that asked how many guys missed.  It was a percentage in that range.  Then another survey was done that was limited to guys who loaded their own shells - the vast majority of who loaded HTL shot.  The miss rate among those guys was 1/2 the rate of the survey that included everybody. 

So, if you want a dead bird, shoot the best performing ammo you can, and make sure you can put the pattern where you want it.


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## hawglips (Dec 27, 2013)

SCDieselDawg said:


> Gonna be hard to compare 7s to 6s when it comes to total #s. But a $20 box of 10 that puts 250 in the 10" trumps 300 plus, that cost $30+ for a box of 5. After all a dead turkey is a dead turkey!



Actually, to be fair, you have to compare the Longbeard #6s with Hevi-13 #7s in the MagBlend- because those have approx the same penetration energy.   

IMO, from 30-50 yds, the Longbeard is going to be a big improvement over any other lead loads. But inside of 30 yds, it's going to be an increased liability due to the tight pattern coming out of that resin it's encased in at close ranges.

Here it is at 20 yds (3" shell)...






Compared to a Hevi-13 #6 at 20 yds (10" circle)...





Compared to a typical lead load at 20 yds (10" circle)...





So, except for those for whom saving a few dimes takes precedence over increasing your chances per turkey, seems to me you're still going to be better off with the Hevi-13 shells....


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## WFL (Dec 27, 2013)

hawglips said:


> It's the ones that don't die that hunters should worry about.  About every survey you look at will show about a 20-25% "miss" rate.  I figure most of those "misses" are birds that are hit.  A couple years back there was a survey on another forum that asked how many guys missed.  It was a percentage in that range.  Then another survey was done that was limited to guys who loaded their own shells - the vast majority of who loaded HTL shot.  The miss rate among those guys was 1/2 the rate of the survey that included everybody.
> 
> So, if you want a dead bird, shoot the best performing ammo you can, and make sure you can put the pattern where you want it.



Don't think it is the shell in that case.  The guys that hand load are the guys that spend more time getting to know the gun.  I was surprised at the folks that stop by that have NO CLUE the  POA/POI of the gun they had.  The guy that gets into the numbers game I don't think have a better choke, gun or shell.  I think they have learned the gun.  50% is equipment and 50% is hunter


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## icdedturkes (Dec 27, 2013)

hawglips said:


> Actually, to be fair, you have to compare the Longbeard #6s with Hevi-13 #7s in the MagBlend- because those have approx the same penetration energy.



I do not after shooting the 7s for two years and pulling numerous pellets out of breasts near side skin and pallets it is hard to compare Hevi on an equal plane with anything do to the floor sweepings in every shell.. I had fly specks called pellets wedged between layers of cardboard. 

In my best Forrest Gump voice "hevi shot is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what your gonna get"

The Hevi 7s are a fantastic 40 yd load but one would have to measure each individual pellet to get some form of average penetration.


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## boothy (Dec 27, 2013)

William have you had a chance to run any 5s down the pipe?


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## hawglips (Dec 27, 2013)

WFL said:


> Don't think it is the shell in that case.  The guys that hand load are the guys that spend more time getting to know the gun.  I was surprised at the folks that stop by that have NO CLUE the  POA/POI of the gun they had.  The guy that gets into the numbers game I don't think have a better choke, gun or shell.  I think they have learned the gun.  50% is equipment and 50% is hunter



No question that guys who load their own spend more time at the range and therefore are surely going to do a better job performing well when they pull the trigger, compared to the average Joe who is looking to buy the cheapest stuff he can find and then starts shooting at turkeys.  

I am not sure exactly what your definition of the "guy who gets into the numebers game" is, but I can say with confidence that the ammo makes a huge difference in performance when it comes to whether a turkey lives, is crippled, or dies when the guy pulls the trigger.  It gives the biggest bang for one's turkey hunting buck.   I can only speak for myself, but I can't see the point of spending thousands of dollars to hunt every year, and then skimping when it comes to the moment of truth, just to save a few dimes. 

IMO, whatever one shoots, just make sure you know what the pattern of shot is doing out there, and then keep within the shell's limitations.  As ethical hunters, it should be our goal to have a dead turkey, every time we point the gun at one and pull the trigger.  And since most hunters don't play the numbers game enough to know better, I'm afraid a lot of hunters are going to fall for the deceptive 60+ yard marketing job Winchester is doing.


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## hawglips (Dec 27, 2013)

icdedturkes said:


> I do not after shooting the 7s for two years and pulling numerous pellets out of breasts near side skin and pallets it is hard to compare Hevi on an equal plane with anything do to the floor sweepings in every shell.. I had fly specks called pellets wedged between layers of cardboard.
> 
> In my best Forrest Gump voice "hevi shot is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what your gonna get"
> 
> The Hevi 7s are a fantastic 40 yd load but one would have to measure each individual pellet to get some form of average penetration.



I won't shoot the Hevi-13 7s, for that reason.  And I won't be shooting the Longbeard 6s either, for the same insufficient energy reasons.  

But the Hevi-13 size issue goes both ways - smaller and larger.  

I suspect the Longbeard shells are also going to be a fantastic 40 yd load - but not a fantastic 20 yd or 60 yd load.  Due to the laws of physics, it's going to have a more narrow range where it give high performance, compared to the HTL stuff.


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## WFL (Dec 27, 2013)

Hawglips what was saying is they spend the time looking for numbers they are spending time learning the gun.   It shoots this way clean that way dirty.  It likes this shell that choke.   I know the old school guys walk up shoot paper walk out look at it say that is a dead bird and walk off.   Most them you hang paper with 2 inch square at 50 feet tell them blow hole in it they can.   I see both sides of this. Get guys come around they look at you like you from outer space when you ask when have you cleaned the gun.  Guy buy a choke or gun then say it not put up the numbers other guy did.  A lot more to it then plug and play.  That is why I ask if someone calls with TSS who's load are you shooting.

Now as in short rang of the new long beard it is going to be a bad shell because the guy that looks at the patterns.  Got to have that and don't realize A lot more work to it when it comes to this load.   This liad is like the Fed FCW HW in the 20.   Good load 30 to 40 yards but need to be on your a game if bird is at 20 yards


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## turkeykirk (Dec 27, 2013)

I see in the Winchester ad that the Drury brothers are bragging about a gobbler they shot at 66 yards. Said the load was so effective they were going to move their decoys out further! No telling how many wounded gobblers this type advertising will cause this Spring.


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## SCDieselDawg (Dec 27, 2013)

RUNnGUN said:


> I couldn't agree with you more! I'm going to stick with what I know will kill one though. Plus, not real sure about those Long beards. Could just be me, or maybe it was explained to me wrong, but the way it was explained tells me that if everything doesn't go just right there could be a disaster.



I understand the sticking with what you know works. That's why if I get to try the Longbeards this spring I will have my Hevi-choke and a couple MagBlends in my pocket in case I need to revert back.


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## hawglips (Dec 27, 2013)

turkeykirk said:


> I see in the Winchester ad that the Drury brothers are bragging about a gobbler they shot at 66 yards. Said the load was so effective they were going to move their decoys out further! No telling how many wounded gobblers this type advertising will cause this Spring.



Take a look at the 20 yard pattern and you'll see the real reason they need to move their decoys out farther.


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## M Sharpe (Dec 27, 2013)

Must of had the decoys out pretty far if they shot him at 66 yds. Unless he was fixing to turn tail and run!!!

If it ain't broke, why fix it???


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## klemsontigers7 (Feb 11, 2014)

hawglips said:


> Take a look at the 20 yard pattern and you'll see the real reason they need to move their decoys out farther.



Have you shot it at 20 yards?  I have, it's no more dense at 20 than other similar loads.  Its not "too tight" at 20... pattern one and you'll see... or keep bashing it, that works as well.


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## strutlife (Feb 11, 2014)

I still have some testing to do with different shells, however, with my setup, the longbeard xr #6 in 3.5 shot the best pattern I have ever witnessed in person and with my gun. Was very well pleased with the results of the longbeards. So impressed I bought 2 more boxes and will be stocking up on some more shortly.


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## icdedturkes (Feb 11, 2014)

strutlife said:


> I still have some testing to do with different shells, however, with my setup, the longbeard xr #6 in 3.5 shot the best pattern I have ever witnessed in person and with my gun. Was very well pleased with the results of the longbeards. So impressed I bought 2 more boxes and will be stocking up on some more shortly.



I would not waste my money on any other shells to try.. If your into counting 10 inch circles there is most likely no other factory shell gonna produce better patterns.. If you keep all your shooting inside 40 that load is gonna do it every single time if you do your part.. 

I would stock up.. Environmetal is more notorious for changing components but even with Win who knows when or ever something will change in this loading.


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## Timber1 (Feb 13, 2014)

hawglips said:


> I won't shoot the Hevi-13 7s, for that reason.  And I won't be shooting the Longbeard 6s either, for the same insufficient energy reasons.



So ...are you saying heavy 13 7's and Longbeard 6's dont have sufficient energy to kill at 40 yards? 50 yards? At what yardage do they start lacking killing power?


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## cowhornedspike (Feb 13, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Have you shot it at 20 yards?  I have, it's no more dense at 20 than other similar loads.  Its not "too tight" at 20... pattern one and you'll see... or keep bashing it, that works as well.



You obviously just skipped right past post #17 above.


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## sman (Feb 13, 2014)

Ripped a hole at 20. Decapitation or humiliation!


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## WFL (Feb 13, 2014)

Well I will say that 95% of the guns and shells we shoot at 20 blows a hole like that one did.  Now we do everything but blow hole with walmart 8's at 20.


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## klemsontigers7 (Feb 14, 2014)

WFL said:


> Well I will say that 95% of the guns and shells we shoot at 20 blows a hole like that one did.  Now we do everything but blow hole with walmart 8's at 20.



Yep, light dove loads blow a hole at 20.

These Long Beards are no tighter at 20 than other similar shells.


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## Nannyman (Feb 15, 2014)

sman said:


> Ripped a hole at 20. Decapitation or humiliation!





klemsontigers7 said:


> Yep, light dove loads blow a hole at 20.
> 
> These Long Beards are no tighter at 20 than other similar shells.



Ok now in post #17 there is photo evidence that the LB is tighter at 20 than others. Do you have evidence to disprove this.


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## gregg (Feb 15, 2014)

I mean really......If you can't hit his head/neck at 20 yards with the pattern shown then go practice a little.


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## icdedturkes (Feb 15, 2014)

I think my Fed HW 7s in the 20 are tighter than that at 20.. After learning, I aim just above the beard.


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## boothy (Feb 15, 2014)

If he is close aim low.  Simple as that.    I would rather body shoot him a hair than send my pattern wizzing by his head.


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## Nannyman (Feb 15, 2014)

Ok. Having read most posts on multiple forums I have tested the 3" #6 longbeard shells. The 1st thing I noticed that no one had mentioned is they are "Roll" crimped with a black scored OSC. 
I shot them in a 23" 870SM with a 660 JellyHead. I shot at 40yds and 20yds. I did not find it to be too tight at 20. 






Now after the 20yd test I went to 40. The patterns are all tight, but for Me, too tight. 190 in 10 is just fine but 150 in the 20 is too thin for me. They may well work better in more open chokes. I also feel the gaps are too numerous. I think as most do that this is and will be the best lead shell out there.


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## Nannyman (Feb 15, 2014)

Now. This shell can in no way take the place of the HTL loads. Lead loads lose pattern density rapidly at greater distances, but also penetration and energy. Lead 6 will pattern best but really run out of steam at 40. 5s will have more punch yet a thinner pattern. Some will kill birds at greater than 40 but only with "The Silver Bullet. You can say all day you only shoot to 40 but turkeys are routinely misjudged. If one chooses to use lead this is a fine ammo choice. Don't be fooled into thinkin this shell is an "Over 40" load cause it isn't.
I shoot HTL for 1 reason. It will kill, not wound, a turkey when "I" make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes.


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## Reminex (Feb 15, 2014)

Yall are doing something im not if your 20 yard patterns are not to tight.  I have now seen it shot out of 5 guns at 20 with comparible results.  Super tight patterns.  the 870 with rem extra full choke i shot today had 11 pellets outside of 10" ring.  By comparison hevi 6 had 95 from same gun/choke.  this is a fairly open choke as far as turkey chokes go.  40 yard with LB #5 had 128 hits at 40 with a ugly pattern.  Step up from lead from still nothing like Hevi-shot.


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## Nannyman (Feb 15, 2014)

A 660 in Remington is pretty tight. It's too tight at 40 but at 20 it's just not too bad. It's lead. It is what it is.


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## Reminex (Feb 15, 2014)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Yep, light dove loads blow a hole at 20.
> 
> These Long Beards are no tighter at 20 than other similar shells.



I hate to keep 
However Ive yet to see that longbeard aren't tighter.  Maybe all the guns ive seen in person are the tightest shooting guns ever made  Nannyman above showed the best 20 yard pattern ive ever seen from longbeard.  The longbeard I shot today blew some serious holes, and looked nothing like nannyman's.  

Also I shot several dove loads today from 3 guns at 15 and 20 yards as this is how I double check my scopes...No blown holes.

Shot hevi #6 with no blown hole and a pattern that's much better at 20.

Shot fed 7 at 20 from 2 different 20 gauges and once again no blown hole.


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## Reminex (Feb 15, 2014)

Nannyman;
No one ever mentions the roll crimp like you said, I really like it.  Id like to see other turkey loads roll crimped to help keep the buffer in.


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## Nannyman (Feb 16, 2014)

Yep. One of the reasons I roll all mine. I did pattern the #6 while in the other thread you patterned #5s. May be some diff.


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## Reminex (Feb 16, 2014)

Yeah the #6 does seem to be the ticket.  Thanks for your pics and info!


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