# Indian "War" in Georgia



## SarahFair (Mar 12, 2013)

More specifically, Monroe, Ga

My oldest has been driving me absolutely insane about finding arrow heads. 
Ive heard of people finding them in plowed fields and sifting through creek beds and actually asked a man that has lived here his entire life (and many generations before him) if hes ever found any. 
He said 'well sure I have. My daddy said that spot on the creek bank back on the property is where they would sit and carve out the weapons for that war they had here. Dont know if its just one of my daddys stories or not..'

I have got to take this kid somewhere to find something, preferably close by.. 
But I dont want to take him over there if there is no chance in finding anything (I understand it takes time and patience, but if they arent there, they arent there).. 

Was there a war here in Monroe or even a high population of N.A.?
Where is the best place to look in and around walton county?


----------



## White Horse (Mar 12, 2013)

Stone points mostly date to long before the Europeans came. Within just a few years after contact the Natives were using metal arrow points and firearms.

Among the earliest images of Indian people in Georgia were the ones painted by Von Reck at the Salzburger community up the river from Savannah in 1735. Among other scenes Von Reck pictured the Yuchi going hunting. One hunter is armed with a bow, and another a gun. Unfortunately it's impossible to tell whether the arrow points Von Reck depicted are stone or metal, but I'd be very surprised if they were not trade points.

The Yuchis were already wearing cloth clothing at that early date. 

All that is to say that locations of historic groups won't give much of a clue about where to find stone artifacts. Asking the elders in the area for productive spots that they remember is a good idea.


----------



## SarahFair (Mar 14, 2013)

Okay, so basically that is just a "story" because any war that would have recently happened around here would have used metal?
interesting..

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Nicodemus (Mar 14, 2013)

Sarah, the native people lost the art of flintknapping within one generation after the introduction of iron and metal tools and weapons from the Europeans. A large portion of the stone points we find today were made long before the white man got here.


----------



## Whiteeagle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sarah, Nicodemus is right, sadly, however there were MANY Native American Indians in the Southeast and in Georgia. I still find LOTS of artifacts looking in areas that have been cleared and plowed. Take your son out after it has rained and settled the topsoil around areas that had water and flat plains and see what you can find. Lots of quartz and flint "pieces" are often overlooked, so keep all you find and ask for help IDing some. Happy hunting and GOOD LUCK! Remember, If you don't HUNT - you don't FIND!!!.........Doug


----------



## SarahFair (Mar 14, 2013)

The SO is on a job right down the street AND on a river.. I might have to do some poking around


----------



## matthewsman (Mar 14, 2013)

*try this.*

You may find them anywhere, plowed fields, roadbeds, firebreaks etc. I like clear-cuts and logging decks especially.

But, if you can, narrow it down. Look for an east facing hill or knoll above a feeder stream off a larger river. I have one small hill in Greene  county where we have found 25+  quartz points and pieces in a small 40yd dia food plot on a spot like I described.

Kick a lot of rocks, he'll turn one up eventually. A lot of the quartz will be chunky, clunky, and opaque on the ground. Don't ignore it out of hand, but pay close attention to any that seems to glint, or is especially glass like or milky clear. Most of my points seem to stand out like that.


----------



## LEON MANLEY (Mar 14, 2013)

SarahFair said:


> The SO is on a job right down the street AND on a river.. I might have to do some poking around



They sell them from time to time at the Eatonton Auction House and General store on Friday and Saturday nights. You could buy some and plant them for him to find.No No:


----------



## SarahFair (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks for the advice! 
I took the SO lunch today and he said the superintendent stays glued to the job and doesnt want anyone poking around during operational hours, but he leaves everyday at 5..

The job actually sits on the hill of the Apalachee river


----------



## Nicodemus (Mar 14, 2013)

Sarah, unless you are lookin` for artifacts on your own land, be sure you have written permission of the landowner before you start. As for public land, it`s against the law to collect there. This includes national forests, state parks, and WMAs.


----------



## TimBray (Mar 17, 2013)

matthewsman said:


> You may find them anywhere, plowed fields, roadbeds, firebreaks etc. ...



The only one I have found (entirely by accident- I never have looked for them) was in a freshly plowed field just outside Buckhead. I just happened to look down and see it laying on top of a furrow. 

Tim


----------



## JustUs4All (Mar 17, 2013)

All good advice.  They might be found anywhere, some I have even refound.  I found three broken points where my Granddad, Dad or one of his siblings dropped them by the doorway to the barn.  I found a good one in the smokehouse when I redid the dirt floor and put in pavers.

When you are looking you will have more luck in places from which soil is being eroded instead of where soil is being washed in.  You will also have more luck in places where the soil has been disturbed, plowing is perfect.  A rain after plowing will make artifacts stand out as it washes them off.

Look carefully for shapes like corners, points, straight lines, and things that just look a little different.


----------



## ThePaleRyder (Mar 17, 2013)

JustUs4All said:


> All good advice.  They might be found anywhere, some I have even refound.  I found three broken points where my Granddad, Dad or one of his siblings dropped them by the doorway to the barn.  I found a good one in the smokehouse when I redid the dirt floor and put in pavers.
> 
> When you are looking you will have more luck in places from which soil is being eroded instead of where soil is being washed in.  You will also have more luck in places where the soil has been disturbed, plowing is perfect.  A rain after plowing will make artifacts stand out as it washes them off.
> 
> Look carefully for shapes like corners, points, straight lines, and things that just look a little different.



Indeed!

And, Civil War relic hunters like to go in where a new subdivision or parking lot is being made, right after it's been dozed (and particularly after a rain).  That is about the best way to go about looking for any artifacts!


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Apr 22, 2013)

They are not that hard to find at all, any rise next to flowing water will almost always be good for some.  Nic was right about what you need to look for them on others property.....written permission.  Back before the laws came into being, I would find a mess of them on right of ways by bridges.....but you can't do that now.  If your youngun and you are down this way, I'll get you permission to look for them on some land along the flint in Mitchell Co.  

As for the wars, there were indians fighting whites in GA from the time DeSoto came through here to the early 1840's....and off and on for all those years.  The last battles in GA tend to have been in SOWEGA (what are now Stewart, Terrell, Calhoun, Early and Baker Co.s ) with the exception of a skirmish or two around the okefenokee.  Interestingly, a good many of the indians that fought the whites were probably as much scotts as they were indians, with blue eyes, red hair, etc.....The creeks were not adverse to marrying whites and vice a versa.  They really started mixing it up with the deer hide trade early on in colonial times......scotts traders taking on creek wives.


----------



## Nicodemus (Apr 22, 2013)

Sarah, I`d take him up on that if I was you. Where ol` Jay is talking about has some mighty fine artifacts. Shark, mammoth, camel, and horse teeth too. An offer like that don`t come by everyday.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (May 16, 2013)

White Horse said:


> Stone points mostly date to long before the Europeans came. Within just a few years after contact the Natives were using metal arrow points and firearms.
> 
> Among the earliest images of Indian people in Georgia were the ones painted by Von Reck at the Salzburger community up the river from Savannah in 1735. Among other scenes Von Reck pictured the Yuchi going hunting. One hunter is armed with a bow, and another a gun. Unfortunately it's impossible to tell whether the arrow points Von Reck depicted are stone or metal, but I'd be very surprised if they were not trade points.
> 
> ...



The spanish had established missions all along the Sea Islands and even up in extreme south and southwest GA from the Apalachi Mission district long before GA was a colony....these missions became sites of indian towns and there was a big trade for european goods that took place.  I have found spanish beads, bells and other artifacts over the years that came from these missions or from European coastal traders that would ply the coastal waters trading with the indians.....there was a decent trade in European goods in GA for more than a 100 years before Oglethorpe settled here.  The french also traded in this area out of Mobile....in the upper coastal plain of SOWEGA I have seen some french trade goods that were found, clay pipes and such.....The carolina colonist also traded in GA before it was a colony for indian slaves and deer hides.....There was a big battle on the banks of the flint in what is now Worth Co. between militia and its indian allies from south carolina and spanish and its indian allies from florida in the first years of the 18th century called "the battle of the blankets".  It took place on a bend in the Flint river on what used to be the Davis Farm between Oakfield and Warwick.  I was friends with one of the family members that owned it and he found some artifacts from that battle before they realized that it was the site of the battle (historians debated where its location was for years some thought it was under present day lake chehaw).


----------



## Sterling (Jul 29, 2013)

redneck_billcollector said:


> They are not that hard to find at all, any rise next to flowing water will almost always be good for some.  Nic was right about what you need to look for them on others property.....written permission.  Back before the laws came into being, I would find a mess of them on right of ways by bridges.....but you can't do that now.  If your youngun and you are down this way, I'll get you permission to look for them on some land along the flint in Mitchell Co.
> 
> As for the wars, there were indians fighting whites in GA from the time DeSoto came through here to the early 1840's....and off and on for all those years.  The last battles in GA tend to have been in SOWEGA (what are now Stewart, Terrell, Calhoun, Early and Baker Co.s ) with the exception of a skirmish or two around the okefenokee.  Interestingly, a good many of the indians that fought the whites were probably as much scotts as they were indians, with blue eyes, red hair, etc.....The creeks were not adverse to marrying whites and vice a versa.  They really started mixing it up with the deer hide trade early on in colonial times......scotts traders taking on creek wives.



Case in point my great grandmother was full blooded creek, but I don't look like it at all.


----------



## rayjay (Aug 2, 2013)

SarahFair said:


> Okay, so basically that is just a "story" because any war that would have recently happened around here would have used metal?
> interesting..
> 
> Thanks for the info!



"Indians" came to the north American continent app 15,000 years ago via the Bering Sea land bridge during an ice age. They relatively quickly crossed the continent and migrated down  into Mexico and beyond. They been fighting each other ever since and hunting and farming. And there were millions of them .  

White men only been here about 500 years.

We have a nice collection from my wife's grandfather. He found them plowing. Their age is staggering.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Aug 4, 2013)

*I*



rayjay said:


> "Indians" came to the north American continent app 15,000 years ago via the Bering Sea land bridge during an ice age. They relatively quickly crossed the continent and migrated down  into Mexico and beyond. They been fighting each other ever since and hunting and farming. And there were millions of them .
> 
> White men only been here about 500 years.
> 
> We have a nice collection from my wife's grandfather. He found them plowing. Their age is staggering.



It is true that the Indians fought each other prior to there being Europeans here. I think she was talking about historical wars (she refers to them as recent).  The huge majority of the artifacts found in my part of the state are archaic, when they did not live in villages/towns and there were not really tribes as we think of them.....it was small groups of hunter gatherers that followed the food, both plant and animal and agriculture was not one of their skills.  Agriculture came to the americas later than it did in the old world.  I find some woodland and mississippian artifacts but nowhere near as many as I do archaic (sites).  And way....way less paleo.  When you find woodland and mississippian artifacts you tend to find troves of them at one spot....those are the periods when they became more settled in one spot, hence much more artifacts.  I have found a couple of good historical spots too, one on the muckalee where we have permission to look, it also has a decent prehistorical spot on the same location, lots of really nice points made from exotic material, interesting pottery and other not so common finds.

I am interested in the warfare that took place here during the revolutionary war (not as much material written about these fights) and shortly there after....the government gave pensions for being revolutionary war veterans for indian fighting in GA during the 1790s yet there is little written about that campaign.  I find petition applications which were granted, militia rosters, etc...but not much at all about the actual campaigns.  The english were stirring the natives up until well after the war of 1812, that is how FLA became an american state eventually, Ol Andy invading it because of problems in my neck of the woods with indians.  The spanish did the same thing but not to the extent that britain did.  

It is funny, we have threads on here about "what did R. E. Lee eat for breakfast on July 2, 1863" that leads to debate and speculation as to the outcome of Gettysburg, but no one knows or talks about on here what happened around what is now Macon GA in 1791.  There was fighting that impacted all Georgians during the revolutionary war here that apparently is of little intrests to most of the people on this board.  

It is a miscarriage of history to ignore those years in the deep south.  When people think of the revolutionary war they think of Concord, New York, Boston, etc...the war was fought more so in the south and won because of the defeat of the British southern campaign.  The british could care less about the northern and new england colonies, they did not make them much money (they actually were money losers), they were willing to give them up by the last couple of years of the 1770s, but they wanted to keep its southern colonies, two of them did not even rebel and remained loyal, british east florida and british west florida...(your average student or Georgian doesn't even know that) the fact those territories remained loyal led to some really nasty fighting in GA, yet no one ever talks about it, let alone writes about it.  It was whites fighting whites, whites fighting indians and indians fighting indians. Literally a civil war down here, with brother against brother, and father against son in many cases.  In the few writtings I have seen it has been refered to as the first and real civil war in America.  My family is a good case in point.  I have both loyalist ancestors and rebel ancestors that fought in GA.; hence me having alot of fla. cracker blood, they moved to FLA during the revolution because they were loyalist and kept getting burned out...The war in GA is what led to the first white migration of families to FLA, long before the snow birds, yankees and other disreputable folk....  

I have tried to start a thread on this period of GA history before but little was added by folks, I don't know why.  maybe it is because alot of georigans came to Ga after the revolution (there was a huge migration here from the Carolinas after the war) and have no knowledge of family history in Ga during that time.  Strangely enough, both sides of my family were represented in GA at this time so I grew up with some of the stories by the older generations left in my family when I was a child, lots of   Sons and Daughters of the Revolution and Confederacy in my family.  There was a time when being in those organizations was a big to do down here.  I used to be a member in both of the Sons groups, but they started to get too political (Sons of the Confederacy, when I joined the army in 81 and came back home later there was no Sons of the Revolution anymore down here, most of the guys had died or got to old)  so I am inactive now....it doesn't seem to be about history or heritage that much any more.  (Case in point, I was the only member of my chapter of the sons of the revolution who's ancestor fought in GA with the militias as opposed to in different areas with other militias or the army.)  I don't even know if there is a chapter in South GA anymore...this was way back in the 70s.......I do know there is a DAR chapter though, but whether it is active or not I don't know.  One of my Grandmothers and a couple of my Great Aunts were members....they are all gone now.  

Dang. sorry for getting so off subject, but the lack of intrest in this period of history about GA really is one of my pet peeves......


----------



## rayjay (Aug 4, 2013)

I have read a LOT about 20th century wars in my life. Mostly got started reading about the air war as I am a warbird nut. Then I started reading more about land and sea stuff. A few years back I decided I wanted to know more about early life on my own continent and started reading about indian stuff and spanish exploration, etc. 

Still know very little about civil war and even less about the revolutionary war as compared to my other knowledge [ WWI, WWII, Chinese civil war, Korea, Arab - Israeli wars, VN, Falklands, Afghanistan, Iraq, .....


----------



## Nicodemus (Aug 7, 2013)

rayjay said:


> "Indians" came to the north American continent app 15,000 years ago via the Bering Sea land bridge during an ice age. They relatively quickly crossed the continent and migrated down  into Mexico and beyond. They been fighting each other ever since and hunting and farming. And there were millions of them .
> 
> White men only been here about 500 years.
> 
> We have a nice collection from my wife's grandfather. He found them plowing. Their age is staggering.





There is a very good chance that Neolithic Europeans came here 12,000 to 15000 years ago too. Maybe even earlier. From the Atlantic side. Story in the stone.


----------



## rayjay (Aug 7, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> There is a very good chance that Neolithic Europeans came here 12,000 to 15000 years ago too. Maybe even earlier. From the Atlantic side. Story in the stone.



http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news168.htm


----------



## Nicodemus (Aug 7, 2013)

rayjay said:


> http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news168.htm





Compare Solutrean stone working styles to Clovis stoneworking styles. Especially core preparation.


----------



## fish hawk (Aug 7, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> Compare Solutrean stone working styles to Clovis stoneworking styles. Especially core preparation.



There stoneworking styles are the same.....The only way to really tell the difference is by the material?


----------



## Jeff Raines (Aug 7, 2013)

redneck_billcollector said:


> Dang. sorry for getting so off subject, but the lack of intrest in this period of history about GA really is one of my pet peeves......



I love studying local,early history.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Aug 8, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> There is a very good chance that Neolithic Europeans came here 12,00015000 years ago too. Maybe even earlier. From the Atlantic side. Story in the stone.



You are getting....."non-politically correct" because heaven help anyone who says it weren't the cross Bering sea folks,,,,who made it this country....however, I am a follower of your theory.....


----------



## White Horse (Aug 8, 2013)

Many American Indians do not buy the Bering Strait theory. They say they have always been here. I think they may be right. I keep an open mind, anyway, about the idea that mankind may have originated in more than one place.

Even if their ancestors did migrate here from somewhere else shortly after the end of the last Ice Age, somewhere in the range of 20,000 to 15,000 years ago, well, that's pretty close to "always."


----------



## David Parker (Aug 9, 2013)

Not a perfect time for it but Clarks Hill Lake, when the pool is low, has been ideal for finding all types of artifacts.  They built the lake ontop of an old town.  I've seen a nice spread of points and primitive items mixed in with a bunch of old metal hand tools that were found along the bank when the water recedes.  Bet that's the case for most of the man-made reservoirs as well.


----------



## Nicodemus (Aug 9, 2013)

David Parker said:


> Not a perfect time for it but Clarks Hill Lake, when the pool is low, has been ideal for finding all types of artifacts.  They built the lake ontop of an old town.  I've seen a nice spread of points and primitive items mixed in with a bunch of old metal hand tools that were found along the bank when the water recedes.  Bet that's the case for most of the man-made reservoirs as well.




Just don`t get caught.


----------



## turkeykirk (Aug 9, 2013)

Try to stop and talk to some farmers if you see them plowing in the fields. If you stop and ask, especially if you have your son with you and tell them what you want to do, you probably will get permission to look. Most people are always willing to help out a young person.


----------



## David Parker (Aug 10, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> Just don`t get caught.



i'm talkin about Ken Riddleberger's collection.  He set up a kiosk of it all in the Oelrich Memorial Park back in the '80's.  The Gracewood facility in Augusta is closing so the park will be redesignated and I've no idea what ever became of that collection.  Probably still sittin out there.  State property though.


----------



## BubbaFett (Aug 10, 2013)

1812-1830's Indian War history is really neat stuff. I like to  read  up on the South GA Indian fighting during the 1830's.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Aug 12, 2013)

BubbaFett said:


> 1812-1830's Indian War history is really neat stuff. I like to  read  up on the South GA Indian fighting during the 1830's.



If I recall , I think I have posted some links to articles about the fighting in So. GA during this time.....Chickasawhatchee, the battles in what is now Stewart, Quitman and Randolph Co.s and a battle down near present day Valdosta....If I remember correctly, a party of surveyors were ambushed on the Flint River around present day Bainbridge and this was the excuse for the first invasion of FLA and the 1st Seminole war.


----------



## BubbaFett (Aug 12, 2013)

redneck_billcollector said:


> If I recall , I think I have posted some links to articles about the fighting in So. GA during this time.....Chickasawhatchee, the battles in what is now Stewart, Quitman and Randolph Co.s and a battle down near present day Valdosta....



I will try and search those out. I am near the Battle of Brushy Creek and some of the other fights near Lakeland and Nashville.


----------



## billy62green (Aug 13, 2013)

BubbaFett said:


> 1812-1830's Indian War history is really neat stuff. I like to  read  up on the South GA Indian fighting during the 1830's.



Check out the 1836 Creek War. The Creeks had been forced out of Georgia at that time, but still had some lands and were allowed to stay in eastern Alabama, in the region west of the river from Columbus, Ga. They attacked and burned (the no longer existing town of) Roanoke, Ga. and burned it. Roanoke was on the east side of the Chatthoochee in Stewart County, and I think the actual site of the town is now under Lake Walter F. George. There were a number of skirmishes between the Creek and the Georgia Militia in the Stewart County area and most of the settlers fled for the safety of larger towns like Columbus. There are also some roadside historical markers along the highways in Stewart County commemorating these event. I think this 1836 event pretty much finished off the Creek Nation east of the Mississippi as those in Alabama were then forced to leave and join the Creek from Georgia who had already gone on to Oklahoma.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Aug 13, 2013)

billy62green said:


> Check out the 1836 Creek War. The Creeks had been forced out of Georgia at that time, but still had some lands and were allowed to stay in eastern Alabama, in the region west of the river from Columbus, Ga. They attacked and burned (the no longer existing town of) Roanoke, Ga. and burned it. Roanoke was on the east side of the Chatthoochee in Stewart County, and I think the actual site of the town is now under Lake Walter F. George. There were a number of skirmishes between the Creek and the Georgia Militia in the Stewart County area and most of the settlers fled for the safety of larger towns like Columbus. There are also some roadside historical markers along the highways in Stewart County commemorating these event. I think this 1836 event pretty much finished off the Creek Nation east of the Mississippi as those in Alabama were then forced to leave and join the Creek from Georgia who had already gone on to Oklahoma.



There was still some scattered fighting in NW FLA after Roanoke associated with the creeks as opposed to the Seminoles.....the Jackson Co. (or Washington Co....can't remember....I posted the links in another thread on here) Militia was hunting down and killing anyone who had creek blood in them. There was an incident where a widowed tavern / pub keeper in NW FLA was killed by creeks, that was never proved but lead to the afore mentioned militia actions in the panhandle...There is also a story of a Creek outlaw that was killed on the shore of either St. Andrews Bay or Philip's inlet in Bay Co. (can't remember which it was) in the 1840s.  There was also an interesting battle near Shellman that lasted most of a day between militia and creeks around the time of Roanoke, or just before.... 

One thing that is really interesting is that the Creek Confederation is the only Indian grouping that had an actual navy with a flag and everything (even a gunship).....Of all the indian groups in the US the creeks have the most interesting history by far and probably have one of the longest histories of conflict with white people....especially if you include the Seminoles in that grouping, which you almost have to do to some extent.


----------



## billy62green (Aug 13, 2013)

redneck_billcollector said:


> There was still some scattered fighting in NW FLA after Roanoke associated with the creeks as opposed to the Seminoles.....the Jackson Co. (or Washington Co....can't remember....I posted the links in another thread on here) Militia was hunting down and killing anyone who had creek blood in them. There was an incident where a widowed tavern / pub keeper in NW FLA was killed by creeks, that was never proved but lead to the afore mentioned militia actions in the panhandle...There is also a story of a Creek outlaw that was killed on the shore of either St. Andrews Bay or Philip's inlet in Bay Co. (can't remember which it was) in the 1840s.  There was also an interesting battle near Shellman that lasted most of a day between militia and creeks around the time of Roanoke, or just before....
> 
> One thing that is really interesting is that the Creek Confederation is the only Indian grouping that had an actual navy with a flag and everything (even a gunship).....Of all the indian groups in the US the creeks have the most interesting history by far and probably have one of the longest histories of conflict with white people....especially if you include the Seminoles in that grouping, which you almost have to do to some extent.


Right, I didn't even know about the 1836 Creek Indian incidents until one day when I was in Stewart County and saw the roadside markers. I started doing some checking then. Before that, I thought the Battle of Horseshoe Bend had about done the Creek Nation in. We've got a County Park here in my home county along the banks of the Chattahoochee at the old Chief McIntosh Reservation. He signed away the last Creek lands in Georgia at the Treaty of Indian Springs in 1825 and in 1826 a Creek War party from Alabama came over and killed him at his home. He led a Creek Bank that fought with Jackson at Horseshoe Bend against the other Creeks. He was supposedly a first cousin of Governor George M. Troup, and I think I read that his mother was an Indian Princess named Senoia, for whom Senoia, Ga. is named for. Interesting history in our backyard!


----------



## joedublin (Sep 17, 2013)

Were there any battles, or Indian camps, around the Grady County, Cairo, Whigham areas ?


----------



## ironhead7544 (Oct 27, 2013)

I live in Bainbridge, moved here some time ago.   Almost everyone has some arrowheads they found.   It seems the weapon/tool makers moved to where their supplies could easily be found.   Thats why the Flint river has its name.   Since flint was used from way, way, back the traces are still here.   See if you can find some collectors in your area.   They should be able to tell you where you can look.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Jan 28, 2014)

joedublin said:


> Were there any battles, or Indian camps, around the Grady County, Cairo, Whigham areas ?



I know there was an attempt at a spanish mission in Thomas County on the banks of the Ochlockonee.  I have seen a small spanish pintle mounted cannon and a mission bell that was found on a plantation in Thomas Co. along with trade beads and spanish glass and pottery. The early spanish kept alot of their activites quiet because they were worried about the James town and later Charles town authorities finding out about them.  The Ochlockonee was a major river in the spanish apalachi mission district and alot of travel and trade was carried out on it.  Same can be said about the chattahochee and the flint (the spanish called it rio pedrenal). 

Other than Florida, GA has the longest history of continuous white/indian interaction of any other state in the union, it starts with De Salazar(1514 in GA) shortly followed by de Soto (1540 in GA) followed by spanish missions and goes on through almost the mid-19th century.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Dec 12, 2014)

ironhead7544 said:


> I live in Bainbridge, moved here some time ago.   Almost everyone has some arrowheads they found.   It seems the weapon/tool makers moved to where their supplies could easily be found.   Thats why the Flint river has its name.   Since flint was used from way, way, back the traces are still here.   See if you can find some collectors in your area.   They should be able to tell you where you can look.



The very first Battle of the 1st Seminole War was fought near present day Bainbridge.  Around 1813 or 1814 a band of Lower Creek warriors and their families moved from a creek town around Albany (Ben, speak up if you know which town it was) after they were on the loosing side of the Battle of Uchee fought against William McIntosh and the warriors of Cowetta during the Creek civil war which was also part of the War of 1812. McIntosh was a US ally so I am assuming this band was allied to the British.  The leader of the band was named Neamathia or "Fat Warrior",  they settled on the land of an abandoned creek town called  Tutalosi Talosa or "Fowltown", just south of present day Bainbridge on the banks of the Flint.  (It apparently had been abandoned prior to the American Revolution)

The British apparently aided Neamathia after they landed in Apalachicola in 1814 and sent arms and supplies to him through 1815 when the British abandonded the Apalachicola river, the extreme lower Flint and Chattahochee rivers after all the treaties ending the War of 1812 started to be enforced.  In 1817 or there abouts, the US Army started to build Ft. Scott on the western banks of the Flint about 12 or so miles from Fowltown, this ticked ol Neamathia off.  Neamathia and Major Twiggs, the fort's commander had words on many occassions, leading Major Twiggs to send a party to arrest Neamathia, a short, relatively nominal battle took place where one US soldier was killed and and estimated 8 or so creeks were killed (US estimate). *This battle took place on November 23, 1817, a prior attempt to arrest him took place on Nov. 21, but all the creeks hid in the surrounding swamp and nothing happened.* The soldiers went on to take all the indian cattle and their corn stores.....in and of itself, the battle would have been nothing but a little foot note in American history, but for what happened next.  

The raid on Fowltown really upset the Redstick Creeks, Seminoles and run away slaves (who were living with the Seminoles in the area), they wanted revenge.   Ft. Scott was supplied via water from Apalachicola, the Creeks, Seminoles and Africans (that is what they called themselves) set up an ambush near present day Chattahoochee FLA. on the banks of the Apalachicola river.  A party under the command of Lt. Scott (a coincidence) numbering 39 men (around half of which were unarmed), 7 women and 4 children were ambushed on   Nov. 30 1817.  The ambushing party numbered somewhere between 300 to 500 warriors under the command of Homathlemico, a redstick leader who fled to Florida after their defeat at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend at the hands of o' Hickory.  The Battle that resulted became known as the "Scott party massacre" only 5 men and one woman survived.  (Lt. Scott was wounded and captured and eventually tortured to death) The woman was taken prisoner and freed the following spring.  This battle set into motion a series of events that forever changed America.

Because of the uproar resulting from the massacre, Andy raised an army of allied creeks, GA and Tenn militia and some US regulars in the spring of 1818 and invaded FLA.   In the course of the campaign Jackson captured two british agents and executed them, which almost led to war with britian again.  Because of all this, the US ended up owning Florida de facto, even though Spain had a nominal rule over Florida, they could not defend against the US and settled on selling FLA to the US shortly after Jackson's invasion of Florida.  That was basically the first seminole war.  

That same spring, GA's Governor Rabun was worried about indians in SOWEGA and dispatched some militia to keep peace.  They ended up attacking the one real friendly Lower Creek town in the area, Cheahaw Town, which a number of their warriors were away, in the service of Jackson on his FLA invasion.  Ironicially there were a couple of creek towns that were not friendly and they went unattacked.  This was known as the "Cheahaw Affair" and led to some legal action on behalf of the survivors and they ultimately won in Court.


----------



## Scrapy (Dec 13, 2014)

"The Yemassee" a "romance" novel by William Gilmore Simms of Bamberg County SC written in the 1800s. A "romance novel" as declared by Simms himself, because he had taken many " ? liberties" in the telling. He must have done a great deal of research of the location geography of which he wrote. However , I know the area well and believe I can pick out certain spots on the Coosawhatchie and Pocataligo Rivers and inland flats and bogs referred to in the book. So not entirely historically accurate but dang close.

The book is based on the Yemassee War of 1715. 

After their defeat, In later studies it seems that the remnants went back to their original Yucchi tribes, some went to Florida and incorporated into the Seminoles and some went near Augusta GA and and coagulated (if you will)  into confederations of many tribes near Augusta.

My book report critique  on it says it is interesting. It is the best late night reading material I have ever read. Reason being, Simms' use of long , very complicated sentences always knocked me out in a paragraph - sentence or two. That old writing is hard to read but I got at least two years worth of getting to sleep early because of it. If you can read the whole thing in a sitting or two, either you are on an Upper or you need to see the Doc about getting on a sleep aid.

My writing style takes after his, long winded ramblings. So be careful if you read it, future writers. Be forewarned.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Dec 13, 2014)

Scrapy said:


> "The Yemassee" a "romance" novel by William Gilmore Simms of Bamberg County SC written in the 1800s. A "romance novel" as declared by Simms himself, because he had taken many " ? liberties" in the telling. He must have done a great deal of research of the location geography of which he wrote. However , I know the area well and believe I can pick out certain spots on the Coosawhatchie and Pocataligo Rivers and inland flats and bogs referred to in the book. So not entirely historically accurate but dang close.
> 
> The book is based on the Yemassee War of 1715.
> 
> ...



The story of GA's "Pocahontas",  Cousaponakeesa or Mary Musgrove is tied into the Yamasees revolt in a round about way.  She was apparently born around 1700 in Coweta (not the western one, but one on the Oukmulgee river) to a South Carolina trader and an "Indian Princess", the sister of the Creek leader "Old Bream". She was taken to SC at an early age to be "christianized" and educated. She married an "Indian Agent" from SC by the name of Col. John Musgrove in 1716 she met when she traveled with his party to Coweta to effect one of the treaties at the end of the Yamasees revolt. (She spoke the native dialects and english). 

Mary and her husband set up a trading post on Yamacraw Bluff in 1732, a year before the arrival of Oglethorpe.  When Oglethorpe arrived a year later Savannah was located where their trading post was.  This ticked the natives off, the treaties ending the Yamasees revolt made the Savannah river the southern boundry of white settlement, well, Oglethorpe changed all that.  Mary played a large part in keeping the peace between the early GA settlers and the local natives because of her influence due to her maternal uncle who was a revered "king" and leader amongst the creek nation at this time.  Her story is an interesting one.  The Methodist on this board might find it interesting that she was a good friend of John Wesley and acted as his interpreter in his dealings with Tomo-Chichi, so it could be argued that she help establish the Methodist Church in GA. 

 She eventually had three husbands, a large plantation and was a "spy" for the colonial government due to various trading posts she and her numerous husbands ran along the Altamaha river keeping an eye on the Spanish and indians in Florida.  She was also invaluble in getting land concessions from the natives for the Golden Isle areas on the South GA coasts.  It would be interesting if someone made a movie about her.....oh yeah, she also had the self proclaimed title of "Queen of the Creeks" at one time.


----------



## redneck_billcollector (Dec 13, 2014)

Nicodemus said:


> There is a very good chance that Neolithic Europeans came here 12,000 to 15000 years ago too. Maybe even earlier. From the Atlantic side. Story in the stone.



According to a relatively recent find in Virginia Nic, your time line might be off.  A mastadon kill sight with a perfect bifacial Solutrean style blade has been dated to around 23,000 years, that is around 10,000 years before the Bering land bridge was clear of ice and open for travel.  

However, there was a genetic study this year on a "clovis" boy that showed both European and Siberian genetic materials, and that 80% of the native peoples of the americas have his genetic material.  Some are arguing that it was Europeans who migrated through Siberia mixing with locals on the way, whereas others argue that the two peoples met in the interior of North America and mixed....It appears that the "clovis" people were infact the genetic forefathers of most american natives contrary to earlier theories.  I tend to fall within the minority view, the two peoples met in the middle of North America.  

This debate has actually become politically charged recently with traditonalist (Bering landbridge first crowd) claiming the Solutrean first people (which I belong to) are nothing more than neo-nazis pushing a European supremecy agenda.  The traditionalist are saying the recent genetic studies disprove the Solutrean theory, but from what I have read of the study I don't see it.  I haven't read the article published by the researchers simply because it is not available on line without a cost....however I have read many responding to it.


----------



## Scrapy (Dec 14, 2014)

JUst cause you find a Point needs not anybody get to fantasizing that this is the one that killeded up great great graet greayut  grand daddy . Ugh? 
Finding a Point is likely better odds than finding a point22 bullet,shot by none other than me.


And  missed.


----------

