# Clovis Points: They might have originated from the Southeast. Read this.



## godogs57 (Jan 18, 2016)

I usually post on the deer hunting and homemade forums, but this caught my eye. I love my artifacts like you fine folks do, and have found one honest to goodness Clovis in my life...right here in SWGA. This article, if proven to be true,  turns upside down all we ever thought about the Clovis culture. And it now seems to have the  peer support of an awful lot of archaeologists. 

Figured you'd get a kick out of at least reading this. Be forewarned, its a long read, but I digested every word of it.

http://m.charlestoncitypaper.com/ch...ng-the-history-of-mankind/Content?oid=4092912

Here's some highlights of the article (this is just a small part of the article):

 MARTIN, S.C. – At a depth of about four feet, 13,000-year-old artifacts emerge from the floor of a hole known as HS-N207E66 in such dense profusion that they leave the volunteers little room to work.

Like others who've dug here since the 1980s, the crew assigned to HS-N207E66 has reached the Clovis layer at the Topper-Allendale archeological site. Excavations there tell different versions of the same story: Near the end of the last ice age, America's first great artisans came to this hillside to quarry a prized stone tool-making material called chert. The artifacts suggest the intense period of Clovis-era activity begins a few centuries before 11,000 B.C. and fades away roughly 500 years later.


"It used to be, 'Were (the Clovis) the first?'" he says. "Now it's who were they, where did they come from, and where did they go? Now they're real people."


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## Lightnrod (Jan 18, 2016)

Great read!


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 18, 2016)

There have been many archaeologists saying this for a couple decades. Topper and the Meadowcroft Rock Shelter in PA opened up a few cans of worms. Dr. Bruce Bradly has been saying for over a decade that the Clovis culture not only originated in the Southeast, but that the Clovis people were the descendants of Solutrean people who came to North America from Europe. He has submitted some pretty convincing evidence to back up his claim, and I tend to believe it.


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## apoint (Jan 18, 2016)

This info has been around for several years. There are many more clovis points found in the east than the west. There are also many other older artifacts fond in the east. Only thing is the history books are slow to up date. Some points such as the 
"Redstone" point is to be even older and found in the east.
 If my memory serves, a few years back,  a cave in Carolina was found articles dated like 15k yrs old or some of the oldest stuff to date.


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## Bow Only (Jan 19, 2016)

What many people often don't consider is that the pre-Paleo and Paleo peoples lived in an environment that was not static.  There was much more movement of peoples than realized and there were eradication of entire groups of people.  Yes, there were many migrations of people that made up early man in North America but that does not mean that those migrations of people were what made the Paleo culture.  Those people could have moved to other areas or could have died and had no effect on the genetics of Native Americans.  The genetics won't lie, but they also don't tell the entire story.  Genetics says that Native Americans are of Asian decent, but I say the Solutrean influence is what led to the Paleo period and those people didn't survive.  
IMO, the Paleo period of Clovis point production in FL was at different times compared to other areas, like GA for instance.  There seems to be a gap of over 500 years were artifacts were made, people relocated to survive, and then people came back.  This happened in other places as well.  Younger Dryas had a major impact as did other events before it.  Variable food supplies led to variable survival rates.  People have been in North America for a long time, but that doesn't mean those people formed the Paleo culture.


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## Chum (Jan 19, 2016)

I don't have time to read the entire article right now, but I wanted to mention the works of Randall Carlson (an architect who lives right outside of Atlanta) while I was thinking about it.  He does a great job tying in events in our past with a civilization rocking meteor impact that occurred 12-13,000 years ago over the northern ice sheet which would have dramatically altered the Clovis culture of the time (a time we shared with 100's of other megafauna that did go extinct like the giant ground sloth and the woolly mammoth).  He has some great interviews on Youtube.


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## apoint (Jan 19, 2016)

I believe the Americas were inhabited from the west coast and also from the east coast. In other words, people were traveling in every direction hunting food, and the earliest dating is a guess.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 19, 2016)

I`ve never found even a broken Clovis, but I can make one. 

I`m a believer in the Solutrean camp too. Especially from a stoneworking perspective.


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## fish hawk (Jan 19, 2016)

The Monte Verde site in Southern Chile has been dated at 14,800 years B.C.that predates the clovis culture in the Americas by roughly 1,000 years


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## NCHillbilly (Jan 19, 2016)

butter" 





Nicodemus said:


> I`ve never found even a broken Clovis, but I can make one.
> 
> I`m a believer in the Solutrean camp too. Especially from a stoneworking perspective.



Yep. The only flintknapping known in the archeological record that even remotely resembles the Clovis technology is from the Solutreans. Those "pound of butter" cored that the Solutraeans knocked those long blades from look almost exactly like a Clovis/Cumberland preform. And it's from just a little earlier than Clovis in the record. 

Not to mention the pics that Scott Silsbey showed me of a large point dredged up a few miles off the Virginia coast in a trawler net (in an area that would have been dry land during the Pleistocene.) It looked exactly like a Solutrean Laurel Leaf point, except it was made from Pennsylvania rhyolite.

I think there were all kinds of folks here back in the day. If the Vikings could build a boat and float across the ocean, you know the Egyptians, Phoenicians and other could have, too. How about those big stone heads in South America around the pyramids there that look just like black folks?


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## apoint (Jan 19, 2016)

I may be ignorant but I don't see how people get DNA samples from people that died 17k yrs ago.
 So I stick with the facts. The oldest and most of the oldest points were mostly found on the eastern side of the USA, as I understand it would be a solid fact for somebody made it across the Atlantic to be first and oldest.


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## Bow Only (Jan 23, 2016)

apoint said:


> I may be ignorant but I don't see how people get DNA samples from people that died 17k yrs ago.
> So I stick with the facts. The oldest and most of the oldest points were mostly found on the eastern side of the USA, as I understand it would be a solid fact for somebody made it across the Atlantic to be first and oldest.



They use DNA from current Native Americans to see where they are originally from.  

The ones that became extinct or relocated to other countries aren't around now and their DNA doesn't get looked at.


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## apoint (Jan 23, 2016)

Bow Only said:


> They use DNA from current Native Americans to see where they are originally from.
> 
> The ones that became extinct or relocated to other countries aren't around now and their DNA doesn't get looked at.



Yes exactly.  They look at apples to see where watermelons came from.  Maybe they could try Ancestry.com or Angies list or eHarmony or just Google 17k yr old Georgia.
   When all else fails just go with the tangible evidence.
 They get all tied up in using technology and forget about common sense. We shouldn't let the tangible facts confuse the wise but that's just dumb.


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## apoint (Jan 23, 2016)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm
 The above is 50k yr old man in S Carolina.

I break the mold by saying man lived with the dinosaur by the texas "Glen Rose" findings where man's foot print is fossilized in the same stone as a dino.
 I also say carbon dating is vastly wrong on its dating.


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