# covington drag strip



## insanehunter

they are having a support meeting for the drag strip next tuesday 1/28/10 at the commuity center in jersey at 7 pm please show up and show your support this would be a great thing for newton and walton co


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## dragracer

Are they talking about reopening the dragstrip at the old sped shop?


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## erniesp

They are talking about building a new one at hwy 278 and I-20.


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## erniesp

You can also click on the link to sign the petition against the drag strip. 
http://www.ccosc.com/


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## rjcruiser

Seems like a really nice facility that would boost property values and commercial access to the area.

I will say, the little dirt bike race they had 2 weeks ago off of Hwy 11 @ I-20 did a whole bunch of damage to the drag strip effort.  Now...people who weren't even close to the drag strip are wanting to keep it from coming to town.


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## 01Foreman400

That would be great.  1/8 or 1/4 mile?


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## rjcruiser

From the map, I believe it is only 1/8 mile track.


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## insanehunter

it will be a 1/8 mile and its will have a skatebord park,a bmx track, a rodeo arena, and a campground  and would provide a lot of jobs and tax revenue we dont need to let this oppertunity pass by. please come to the meeting and support donnie clack getting this done


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## nosfedgta

Its going to be an 1/8 and 1/4 track. It needs all tthe support it can get to be built. It will bing a lot to the economy in that area. I have some people are just opposing it for no reason. I guess people cant look into the long term effect it will have. They just think noise and traffic. I have and will support this place! I race all over and would love another place to go!


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## nosfedgta

You can check it out here.

citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com


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## erniesp

insanehunter said:


> it will be a 1/8 mile and its will have a skatebord park,a bmx track, a rodeo arena, and a campground  and would provide a lot of jobs and tax revenue we dont need to let this oppertunity pass by. please come to the meeting and support donnie clack getting this done



So how many jobs is this gonna create?


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> So how many jobs is this gonna create?



Who knows...but after driving through Downtown Social Circle this past weekend, it can only help.

My goodness....that place is becoming a ghost town.  Seems like the only business' doing well are the Ace Hardware and the Blue Willow.

Hope the thing gets built.  Will only help in creating more opportunities for development and growth in that area.


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## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> Who knows...but after driving through Downtown Social Circle this past weekend, it can only help.
> 
> My goodness....that place is becoming a ghost town.  Seems like the only business' doing well are the Ace Hardware and the Blue Willow.
> 
> Hope the thing gets built.  Will only help in creating more opportunities for development and growth in that area.



It's a quiet little town. That is why a good majority of the people live there.


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## insanehunter

donnie sayed there could be up to 100 people working at some of the bigger events and it will be just a 1/8 mile track


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## erniesp

insanehunter said:


> donnie sayed there could be up to 100 people working at some of the bigger events and it will be just a 1/8 mile track



I was just asking because I hear how it is gonna create so many jobs. From what I heard he told the officials at Social Circle it was only like 15-20 part time employees. So I was just trying to get some facts.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> It's a quiet little town. That is why a good majority of the people live there.



Okay...not that I live in Social Circle, but from this, it sounds like you like the fact that Brenda's is closed, a cheap motel looks like a scene out of a horror movie and half the shops around the wishing well are empty.

Funny thing is that the drag strip is no where close to the downtown area.  I will say, the dirtbike race that was held a couple of weekends ago did more damage to this project than anything else.

So many think that that is what the motocross track is going to be doing everyday...when in fact the proposed sight isn't even close to hwy 11.  I've got no bone in this whole thing.  Nope...don't race cars...don't live in Social Circle.  But as I look at this thing, I don't understand why people are willing to let their "quite little town" turn into a ghost town, when they've got the opportunity to keep the mom & pop shops thriving.

Hmmm...ever think where people are going to eat when they come into town for a Saturday race?  Ever think where they're going to fill-up with gas?


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## erniesp

Brenda's closed because Brenda is no longer with us. Had nothing to do with anything else. Man that was a great breakfast. Since this sight is not anywhere near Social Circle. I guess they will buy there gas and food on the way either in Covington or Madison if they are coming either way on I 20. There are some new projects in the works for the downtown area. The citizens are discussing new things with the officials about this area.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> Since this sight is not anywhere near Social Circle. I guess they will buy there gas and food on the way either in Covington or Madison if they are coming either way on I 20. There are some new projects in the works for the downtown area. The citizens are discussing new things with the officials about this area.



So...since the sight is no where near SC, why are the citizen's raising such a stink about it?  And how are the citizens going to pay for these new things?


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## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> So...since the sight is no where near SC, why are the citizen's raising such a stink about it?  And how are the citizens going to pay for these new things?



No you said it was not anywhere near Social Circle. Sorry I should have quoted you from your previous post. 

The people that support this complex keep saying the tax revenue will be so great, then they turn around and say it will be barely used.


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## Jim P

With the economy the way it is, you better wake up and support the strip, it's nothing but revenue for the county and it's people.


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## erniesp

Jim P said:


> With the economy the way it is, you better wake up and support the strip, it's nothing but revenue for the county and it's people.



Oh. I'm up...... How much revenue are we talking about?


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> There are some new projects in the works for the downtown area. The citizens are discussing new things with the officials about this area.





rjcruiser said:


> And how are the citizens going to pay for these new things?



So are you going to answer that question?

Oh..and btw...since you do think that the dragstrip is close to downtown...don't you think that the increased "traffic" will be good for the restaurants/shops downtown?

I will say, I do know how much revenue the track will bring in if they don't build it.  $0  During today's economy, anything is better than $0.


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## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> So are you going to answer that question?
> 
> Oh..and btw...since you do think that the dragstrip is close to downtown...don't you think that the increased "traffic" will be good for the restaurants/shops downtown?
> 
> I will say, I do know how much revenue the track will bring in if they don't build it.  $0  During today's economy, anything is better than $0.



Sure I will answer the question. How about revenues from good business ventures that are in place. Goodyear, CSX Railroad, ADF, Freshway, Standridge. You want me to keep going. Have you seen the new General Mills. That place is impressive. Solo is a great company also. How about a grant to revitalize the old mill. 

Now answer my question about how much revenue the complex will bring us?

Who will provide security? Our off duty officers in our tax payed cars and gas? What about EMS? He says no alcohol sales. Hah. How are you going to police people and there own coolers? How about the drug dealing at tracks? Gambling? Ever been to Talladega, Bristol, Atlanta, Darlington? I have. Wouldn't want to see the cost of picking up all the trash left over from those.

Before you give me this about oh I've never been to a track. I will tell you I used to frequent tracks often. Helped on a team or two when I was younger helping out where I could. I know what goes on at tracks.


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## tiger1996

Might want to check out the mans previous ventures in racetracks and see how they turned out.Sometimes people need a business like a racetrack(cash) and do not care about the people at it or who live around it.I do not know Donnie,but I know a lot about racing and he owned Lavonia and Lanier raceways.Both nearly went under during his running of them.What seems good today may not be tomorrow.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> Sure I will answer the question. How about revenues from good business ventures that are in place. Goodyear, CSX Railroad, ADF, Freshway, Standridge. You want me to keep going. Have you seen the new General Mills. That place is impressive. Solo is a great company also. How about a grant to revitalize the old mill.



So are you going to tax them more?  Or are you going to continue with the tax incentives that brought them there?



			
				erniesp said:
			
		

> Now answer my question about how much revenue the complex will bring us?


Already did.  You can read it a couple posts above.



			
				erniesp said:
			
		

> Who will provide security? Our off duty officers in our tax payed cars and gas? What about EMS? He says no alcohol sales. Hah. How are you going to police people and there own coolers? How about the drug dealing at tracks? Gambling? Ever been to Talladega, Bristol, Atlanta, Darlington? I have. Wouldn't want to see the cost of picking up all the trash left over from those.



Security?  I'm sure the facility will be gated and their will be hired security.  Other than that, I'm sure it will be similar to the rest of the business' in Social Circle.  

Alcohol?  Who cares if someone brings a cold one to the race on Saturday.  It is perfectly legal to drink alcoholic beverages in the USA.  Drug dealing?  Really?  If a person wants drugs in Social Circle...they visit the meth houses out in the middle of Walton County.  Why would they go to a public race track where there are tons of people and private security?  Actually, the last person that was found dead out in Social Circle was killed by Meth users....and it wasn't due to a race track.  Trash pick up?  Who cares...again, that is something that would be paid for by the race track.  I doubt they'll have the neighbors picking it up.



tiger1996 said:


> Might want to check out the mans previous ventures in racetracks and see how they turned out.Sometimes people need a business like a racetrack(cash) and do not care about the people at it or who live around it.I do not know Donnie,but I know a lot about racing and he owned Lavonia and Lanier raceways.Both nearly went under during his running of them.What seems good today may not be tomorrow.



I doubt that Donnie doesn't care about anything or anybody in the community..considering that he is a member of the community.


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## erniesp

That was a great number you gave me. Glad you have researched it. Apparently you have not heard the the things Donnie has been saying. He wants to hire off duty officers. I drink beer with the best of them. I am just pointing out that he states no alcohol on premises. You and I both know that is a joke. Actually the last person found dead was a lady that was shot over a family dispute.
You also said who cares twice. I care that is why I am trying to get some answers.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> You also said who cares twice. I care that is why I am trying to get some answers.



Nice way of misquoting. 

Do you care who provides security for the Blue Willow?  Do you care about who cleans up the trash at the First Baptist Church?  Do you mind an off duty cop coming to the HighSchool Football game in his squad car?

Why is it, that when you don't like the idea of a drag strip, all of the sudden, things that you don't care about...all of the sudden matter?


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## erniesp

I am trying to get on board. Come on give me some answers....All I have seen from the supporters is how much money it is going to bring, but not one of them can even start to give you a number.

There is no security at the Blue Willow. Don't see the church people throwing trash out in the parking lot. No I do not care if they have 2 squad cars escorting the buses. I wish they would have done it when I was in school in De Kalb County. We would have rocks thrown at our bus when we went to play baseball at SWD and Southside.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> There is no security at the Blue Willow. Don't see the church people throwing trash out in the parking lot. No I do not care if they have 2 squad cars escorting the buses. I wish they would have done it when I was in school in De Kalb County. We would have rocks thrown at our bus when we went to play baseball at SWD and Southside.



Then...why are you worried about off-duty cops making some money in their off time?  Why are you worried about Trash?  Don't you think that a business will clean up their own trash?

I have no idea as to $$.  I wonder how much revenue Road Atlanta has brought to Braselton.  How many businesses have benefited from that race track.  I don't know.  I don't care enough to research it.  I do know, however, that it is more than $0 and again, anything during this economy is better than nothing....especially when it isn't being paid for by the tax-payer.


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## erniesp

It is not on their off time. It is on the tax payer dime when they are with the buses. Protecting the youth of Social Circle. I know just about all of the police officers and I have no problem with them making money on the side. I just don't like the fact that they will be in our tax payed cars and using tax paid fuel.

You use Road Atlanta that has nationally sanctioned events. Doubt any national events will be coming to a 1/8 mile strip. 

I'll tell you the tax revenue is minimal to what everyone thinks.


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## insanehunter

look at how many people show up for friday nite drags at atlanta moter speedway they make a lot of money there is 1000s of folks there every weekend  its just 1/8 mile its just a good time i race and would rather spend my money in sc and we go out to eat and buy fuel before every race


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## ultramag

I live very close to where the dragstrip would be..I hunted there this past season..and i would not get back in that club for other reasons...so no that is not why i oppose it..I would be able to hear the noise from my house..and it will not be good for the community..we like it quiet around here..i like the fact that social circle has one red light...I will fight it


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## nosfedgta

erniesp said:


> You use Road Atlanta that has nationally sanctioned events. Doubt any national events will be coming to a 1/8 mile strip.
> 
> I'll tell you the tax revenue is minimal to what everyone thinks.



Road atlanta has friday night drags which is not a national event, but draws a bigger crowd that some national racing events.

Im not sure if you race or not, but there are some major events that go down at 1/8 mile dragstrips that you probably never hear about. 

If you are wondering where I got my info from, I have been racing for many years. I attend many races at many different tracks every year.  I have been in the racing community for a long time and know many people. There will be more good than bad to come out of this in the long run. As with any new thing it will have its kinks in the beginning.


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## Backlasher82

nosfedgta said:


> Road atlanta has friday night drags which is not a national event, but draws a bigger crowd that some national racing events.



OK, I have to admit this is the first I've heard of this and I've been following all the changes at Road Atlanta fairly closely.

When did Road Atlanta put in a drag strip? 

And how long have they been running Friday night drags?


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## nosfedgta

They actually run down one of the pit roads. The have a flagger and a guy at the end. They started it last year and have had over 5000 attend some weekends


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## rjcruiser

ultramag said:


> I would be able to hear the noise from my house..and it will not be good for the community..we like it quiet around here..i like the fact that social circle has one red light...I will fight it



Finally...the first valid reason someone has to opposing this track.  And if I lived right next door, I wouldn't like the noise either.

However, that being said, I'd realize that my property value was about to go up and I'd be re-zoning my house to mixed use and putting it up on the market. $$$$


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> It is not on their off time. It is on the tax payer dime when they are with the buses. Protecting the youth of Social Circle. I know just about all of the police officers and I have no problem with them making money on the side. I just don't like the fact that they will be in our tax payed cars and using tax paid fuel.



Hmmm...so when the off-duty cop drives his patrol car to his son's HS football game or BB game, do you have a problem with it?


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## erniesp

If he is off duty. Yes


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## erniesp

And yes I will be able to hear it from my house. Property values around places with high decibel levels drop 18-19%.


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## Gaducker

However, that being said, I'd realize that my property value was about to go up and I'd be re-zoning my house to mixed use and putting it up on the market. $$$$[/QUOTE]

You are a cup half full kinda guy Huuuuu???????????

I couldnt see anybodys property value going up anytime soon. If campgrounds and bmx tracks and rodeo arenas are in the mix thats somekinda money involved, My bet is the dragstrip will go in and all the other stuff will fall to the wayside when the dragstrip fails to turn a profit. Do yall have any idea how much it cost to build a bmx track????


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## AQHARoper

I race in a LARGE organization. Most races are 500+ miles away. Having a track close by to Test and Tune would be great.  Most "true" drag racers are responsible and have families. Most eat before or after a race. The economy in surrounding towns will also be helped. Before I get to a track I buy fuel for my generator, ice for the cooler, Gatorade, and food. I usually bring 2 people with me as well. My avg trip to a local track for a test and tune, including entry, race gas, gas for gen and pit vehicle (4wheeler/golf cart) runs me about $250. This is only to Test and Tune. A race will cost me about anywhere from $500 to $1000. That money goes to pay people working, and the places I support on the way there.

I can see it creating jobs. There will be part time for track officials, part time for police officers, then the trickle effect on surrounding businesses. While it may not bring in millions- if the local part time people working these jobs have a little more money to spend they will spend it in their own community. Wonder is someone needs a part time job to get help pay bills-hmmm part time job opportunity or another foreclosed home in Walton Co.??  Police Officers that work security are usually paid by the track. So this person will have extra money to spend in town as well.

Most drag strips have ordinance times set by the county/city. They need to be done at a certain time. Plus they don't run year around.


On the other side I rodeo some as well. Rodeo's and horse shows bring in allot of money. A good rodeo will pack the stands as will a drag race.  Georgias revenue from Horses was about 160 million last year down from 245 million. Now I know the economy has allot to do with it but so does the fact that subdivisions take up all the land so the horse people have moved away to find more suitable areas. Something needs to be done to draw people to an area to sustain a balanced economy. I am all for it. It can only help.


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## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> And yes I will be able to hear it from my house. Property values around places with high decibel levels drop 18-19%.





Hmmm....I wonder how much property values drop when their's no one in town or no one to buy them?  

Again...these statistics are worthless and show only one side of the story.  Look at how much land is going for around Road Atlanta.  Look at how much land is going for around Atlanta Motor Speedway?  $$$$$$

Commercial property always sells for more than residential.


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## rjcruiser

Gaducker said:


> However, that being said, I'd realize that my property value was about to go up and I'd be re-zoning my house to mixed use and putting it up on the market. $$$$



You are a cup half full kinda guy Huuuuu???????????

I couldnt see anybodys property value going up anytime soon. If campgrounds and bmx tracks and rodeo arenas are in the mix thats somekinda money involved, My bet is the dragstrip will go in and all the other stuff will fall to the wayside when the dragstrip fails to turn a profit. Do yall have any idea how much it cost to build a bmx track????[/QUOTE]

Guess so.  You must be a cup half empty kinda guy Huuuuuuuu?

How much does it cost to build a bmx track?  Really...can't be much.  All it is is moving a bit of dirt.  Half the times, you don't even have to move dirt....did it all the time as a kid.


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## Gaducker

Guess so.  You must be a cup half empty kinda guy Huuuuuuuu?

I wouldnt call it that, more just a realistic kinda guy.



How much does it cost to build a bmx track?  Really...can't be much.  All it is is moving a bit of dirt.  Half the times, you don't even have to move dirt....did it all the time as a kid.[/QUOTE]


You aint gona build a bmx track with a tonka toy and a shovel.  
After you pay someone who is someone to design the track then you got to get the equipment in.   I


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## Backlasher82

rjcruiser said:


> Finally...the first valid reason someone has to opposing this track.  And if I lived right next door, I wouldn't like the noise either.
> 
> However, that being said, I'd realize that my property value was about to go up and I'd be re-zoning my house to mixed use and putting it up on the market. $$$$



Probably never occurred to you that he might just like where he's living and has no desire to move. Lots of folks like quiet country living and move to places Like Social Circle because they like it exactly the way it is. I love motorsports as much, if not more, than the next guy but I can certainly see why folks living in a quiet peaceful place like Social Circle wouldn't want a drag strip moving into town.


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## DeepweR

i know alot of folks that live in and around gwinnett co. that go to eatonton alot to race. if theres a track closer, they will be there!


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## Hunter/Mason

Why worry about what it will cost, if Donnie is paying for it. I'm sure he dosen't care what anyone has in their projects. It will boost economy in the development and building industry. There are tons of us in the grading business right now just sitting around the house w/ nothing to do and equiptment rusting away. Also it would keep local kids from racing on the streets. I understand the opposition from the true neighbors of the track, but, I belive there will be more supporters than neighbors.


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## insanehunter

friday night drags is at atlanta moter speedway not road atlanta we go there alot and spend alot of $ in hamton! there is another support meeting this thursday in jersey at the commuinty center at 7 pm please show up and show your support


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## ultramag

Backlasher82 said:


> Probably never occurred to you that he might just like where he's living and has no desire to move. Lots of folks like quiet country living and move to places Like Social Circle because they like it exactly the way it is. I love motorsports as much, if not more, than the next guy but I can certainly see why folks living in a quiet peaceful place like Social Circle wouldn't want a drag strip moving into town.



Thank you...I like where i live and like it just the way that it is now..and there are alot of people around here that think the same as I do..We do not need a drag strip in Social CircleWhen i step outside at night ...I dont want to here racing..I want to hear peace and quiet..I deal with a dragstrip everyday fighting traffic around 285 everyday in the watermelon 500..when i come home..i want peace and quiet


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## erniesp

ultramag said:


> Thank you...I like where i live and like it just the way that it is now..and there are alot of people around here that think the same as I do..We do not need a drag strip in Social CircleWhen i step outside at night ...I dont want to here racing..I want to hear peace and quiet..I deal with a dragstrip everyday fighting traffic around 285 everyday in the watermelon 500..when i come home..i want peace and quiet



Thanks Ultramag. We moved here for the samll town, easy living, peace and quiet. Plus a great school to send our kid to.


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## nosfedgta

I understand about the noise thing and agree, but look at it like this too. It will be 2 days a week at most.


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## ultramag

erniesp said:


> Thanks Ultramag. We moved here for the samll town, easy living, peace and quiet. Plus a great school to send our kid to.



I understand ernie...my property butts up to stanton springs across the interstate from the proposed dragstrip..It is not very far at all..I can hear the interstate from my house..so i know that the dragstrip would be loud..There are alot of petitions going around fighting it and i am signing every one i can


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## ultramag

nosfedgta said:


> I understand about the noise thing and agree, but look at it like this too. It will be 2 days a week at most.



2 days a week is too much..i am sorry sir


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## ultramag

nosfedgta said:


> I understand about the noise thing and agree, but look at it like this too. It will be 2 days a week at most.



yall have a dragstrip in eatonton right?? we dont want one here


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## erniesp

ultramag said:


> I understand ernie...my property butts up to stanton springs across the interstate from the proposed dragstrip..It is not very far at all..I can hear the interstate from my house..so i know that the dragstrip would be loud..There are alot of petitions going around fighting it and i am signing every one i can



I will be in going door to door with one Saturday.


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## ultramag

erniesp said:


> I will be in going door to door with one Saturday.



good...let me know how i can help


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## erniesp

It is also odd that the city has a ordinance against tractor trailers Jake Braking because of noise, but is considering a drag strip....


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## The Bell Man

I will definately go to the track often if it opens. I would trade the track for the guy that lives behind me who bangs on a drum set 24/7


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## erniesp

The Bell Man said:


> I will definately go to the track often if it opens. I would trade the track for the guy that lives behind me who bangs on a drum set 24/7



Well maybe you can get with Donnie and you two can go in on a business venture together. You both live in Loganville. Put it there. Then I will come.


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## The Bell Man

erniesp said:


> Well maybe you can get with Donnie and you two can go in on a business venture together. You both live in Loganville. Put it there. Then I will come.



We thought about it but decided against it when we learned we would have drug dealers throwing trash in our yards.


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## erniesp

The Bell Man said:


> We thought about it but decided against it when we learned we would have drug dealers throwing trash in our yards.



Good to see you got my point.


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## NOVI FED COUPE

For those of you not seeing where this is going to create jobs and bring in revenue...just look at Commerce now. Commerce was nothing before the drag strip. They came in and built a top notch facility and now look at commerce...it has the Tanger Outlets, hotels, mulitiple gas stations, many nice places to eat. It takes people to run all of that (JOBS). Its a great place to take the whole family for car shows and drag races (REVENUE). Walton, Newton, Morgan, Jasper, Rockdale counties would all majorly benefit from this track and facility!!!


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## erniesp

NOVI FED COUPE said:


> For those of you not seeing where this is going to create jobs and bring in revenue...just look at Commerce now. Commerce was nothing before the drag strip. They came in and built a top notch facility and now look at commerce...it has the Tanger Outlets, hotels, mulitiple gas stations, many nice places to eat. It takes people to run all of that (JOBS). Its a great place to take the whole family for car shows and drag races (REVENUE). Walton, Newton, Morgan, Jasper, Rockdale counties would all majorly benefit from this track and facility!!!



Commerce is also a 1/4 mile track with NHRA sanctioned events. Eatonton sure got Tanger outlets and all that other good stuff too when they built that track.


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## aa136

I agree with loving the county as I live in Monticello. The funny thing is that Newton County's governing body came out against this as have a small portion of Walton Co. but no one has thought of what might be going into the tri-county industrial park just down the road. I guess thats ok since it is Govt. owned. Thats the reason that Newton Co. is broke is the fact that they have run every business they can off with high taxes and impact fees. They are furlowing and laying off everyday, but the ran off Home Depot and Walmart, both which are built in the same place they were gonna build but anexed into the city. Yall better think about the revinew that will be generated with this track. I have been racing for years and most of the tracks I have been there is business around them only there because the track is, not to mention the track employeeing people. I believe you have to look at the total impact. If the track is built right with buffers in place then the train running through downtown will cause a whole lot more noise that the track will, but I dont here anyone complaining about the train. WE  NEED TO GET BACK TO THE OLD DAYS WERE YOU COULD USE YOUR LAND FOR WHAT YOU WANTED NOT WHAT THE GOVT. WANTS


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## nosfedgta

erniesp said:


> Commerce is also a 1/4 mile track with NHRA sanctioned events. Eatonton sure got Tanger outlets and all that other good stuff too when they built that track.



guess you have not seen the plans for the track then... Plus if you only knew how much money the eatonton track brings the local businesses you would be amazed. All the local gas stations, waffle houses, etc are packed before and at the end of race night.

I see both points of view trust me. I am just also stating points for the track because nobody sees them. 

In englishtown NJ the have noise rules. They can only run certain nights of the week without mufflers and most days they have rules that require your car to be under a certain decible. It gets verified by meters.

There are many things to look at. A compromise would be the best way to get it done.


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## rjcruiser

ultramag said:


> Thank you...I like where i live and like it just the way that it is now..and there are alot of people around here that think the same as I do.



Dragstrip or not, things change and Social Circle is changing.  Nothing ever stays the same.



erniesp said:


> Thanks Ultramag. We moved here for the samll town, easy living, peace and quiet. Plus a great school to send our kid to.



How does a dragstrip affect the local school?



ultramag said:


> I understand ernie...my property butts up to stanton springs across the interstate from the proposed dragstrip..It is not very far at all..I can hear the interstate from my house..so i know that the dragstrip would be loud..There are alot of petitions going around fighting it and i am signing every one i can



You moved next to the Interstate and an Industrial park and you're concerned about the noise from a drag strip 2 days a week?


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## Backlasher82

At a rally for the dragstrip it was noted that the cars are required to have mufflers and noise won't be a problem for folks living close by, it'll only be 127db for crying out loud!

http://waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=847664e4d02c1412

Of course 127db is past the pain threshold and is roughly equivalent to being within 100 feet of a jet taking off so I guess having that 2 days a week won't be too bad, as long as you don't live in Social Circle.


----------



## Doc_5729

NOVI FED COUPE said:


> For those of you not seeing where this is going to create jobs and bring in revenue...just look at Commerce now. Commerce was nothing before the drag strip. They came in and built a top notch facility and now look at commerce...it has the Tanger Outlets, hotels, mulitiple gas stations, many nice places to eat. It takes people to run all of that (JOBS). Its a great place to take the whole family for car shows and drag races (REVENUE). Walton, Newton, Morgan, Jasper, Rockdale counties would all majorly benefit from this track and facility!!!



Folks around here don't see things that way bud. They scream and holler not in my back yard but when their property taxes go up and they have to ride 45 miles to shop they complain complain and complain some more.

Newton County has been upside down on the tax base for years, 66-68% residential, 32-34% commercial,  completely opposite from where it should be.

Budget shortfalls are hitting the $4 MILLION mark now and that money has to come from somewhere. 

Without commercial development, which is highly unlikely in this depressed economy, property tax increases are inevitable this year.

So these folks that are moaning and groaning will really have something to moan and groan about when they get their tax bills around September and see a HUGE increase.


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## Doc_5729

rjcruiser said:


> Dragstrip or not, things change and Social Circle is changing.  Nothing ever stays the same.
> You moved next to the Interstate and an Industrial park and you're concerned about the noise from a drag strip 2 days a week?



That's what we said when they started developing this land out here. NOOOOOO not in our back yards. It's peaceful and quiet and we don't need those folks moving in here messing things up.

But they allowed it anyway.

Now we have to listen to their dogs yapping 24/7 and young'uns riding 4 wheelers and motorcycles without mufflers up and down the roads at all hours of the day and night and all weekend.

But they oppose something that will generate revenue.

Scarism OFF!!!



> How does a dragstrip affect the local school?



You know they always gotta throw something about the children in the argument.


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## erniesp

That was not in the argument. Just stating why I moved here. I know the drag strip will not affect the school.


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## AQHARoper

I would rather live near a drag strip, church or some other venue that is only 1 or 2 days a week than have a neighborhood come in behind me that is 24/7.


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## ultramag

rjcruiser said:


> Dragstrip or not, things change and Social Circle is changing.  Nothing ever stays the same.
> 
> 
> 
> How does a dragstrip affect the local school?
> 
> 
> 
> You moved next to the Interstate and an Industrial park and you're concerned about the noise from a drag strip 2 days a week?



when i moved here the county land was peach state hunting club...It was not an industrial park..and it is not now..but the county owns it now...The interstate is about a mile away..but i can hear it...so there is nothing confusing about my post


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## Doc_5729

ultramag said:


> when i moved here the county land was peach state hunting club...It was not an industrial park..and it is not now..but the county owns it now...The interstate is about a mile away..but i can hear it...so there is nothing confusing about my post



Well everything the county owns over there is designated to become and industrial park at some point in the future.

WHEN that happens is unknown now, so you should be safe for a while at least.

HOWEVER, on the other hand, be forewarned.

Morgan County has a vested interest in that park as well and they are in negotiations with some corp guru's on a rather large tract towards the back in the UN-developed areas.

Now don't ask how I know that, or who it is, because that's something they are keeping tight lipped about, but RUMOR has it that it's possibly a company relocating from the State of California. High Tech stuff......

If they work this deal out you may have a whole lot of noise in your back yard before you know it............


----------



## rjcruiser

Doc_5729 said:


> Well everything the county owns over there is designated to become and industrial park at some point in the future.
> 
> WHEN that happens is unknown now, so you should be safe for a while at least.
> 
> HOWEVER, on the other hand, be forewarned.
> 
> Morgan County has a vested interest in that park as well and they are in negotiations with some corp guru's on a rather large tract towards the back in the UN-developed areas.
> 
> Now don't ask how I know that, or who it is, because that's something they are keeping tight lipped about, but RUMOR has it that it's possibly a company relocating from the State of California. High Tech stuff......
> 
> If they work this deal out you may have a whole lot of noise in your back yard before you know it............



Yup...Stanton springs is no hunting club.  Although I do know folks that live over there hunting the property 

It is a "mixed use" property that was supposed to provide huge tax revenues for the 3 counties involved.  Lots of good that has done.

But the funny thing is..Ultramag...you talk about peace and quiet and wanting to keep it that way in one breath, and in the next say you can hear the interstate if you try to.  So if an interstate doesn't bother you, why would a dragstrip?  Just doesn't make sense to me.

Actually, went over to a friend's house this evening that lives on the polar opposite side of SC as the proposed strip.  Talked to him and he said he is opposed.  Doesn't want it.  No reason why, just doesn't want it.  I respect the man, so I won't put the rolleyes face, but I just don't understand it.  Confusing to me to see people who stand in the way of progress...especially when it isn't their property.


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## AnotherRacingFan

I think Clack has some good ideas for a venue.  Problem is, he bought up property right smack in the middle of residential developments.  I think his supporters may think there's a couple yards full of chickens that are holding back progress.  The fact is that there are upscale neighborhoods surrounding the site.  Literally hundreds of families would be subjected to godawful noise and traffic.  Surry Chase is adjacent to the proposed strip.  Luxury homes directly face it from over Hwy 11.  All of these families risk having their homelife damaged, & risk not being able to sell for fair value, if at all.  Clack disregarded all of these SC citizens when he proposed this spot for a drag strip.  And it's not a matter of having to hold their hands over their ears for a brief time here and there.  Clack has plans to hold concerts, there, too.  That's a late-night proposition.  I haven't even mentioned the traffic burden.  Exit #98 -- Hwy 11 into Social Circle -- can't handle it.  There are already traffic accidents all the time at the Surry Chase entrance alone.


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## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I think Clack has some good ideas for a venue.  Problem is, he bought up property right smack in the middle of residential developments.  I think his supporters may think there's a couple yards full of chickens that are holding back progress.  The fact is that there are upscale neighborhoods surrounding the site.  Literally hundreds of families would be subjected to godawful noise and traffic.  Surry Chase is adjacent to the proposed strip.  Luxury homes directly face it from over Hwy 11.  All of these families risk having their homelife damaged, & risk not being able to sell for fair value, if at all.  Clack disregarded all of these SC citizens when he proposed this spot for a drag strip.  And it's not a matter of having to hold their hands over their ears for a brief time here and there.  Clack has plans to hold concerts, there, too.  That's a late-night proposition.  I haven't even mentioned the traffic burden.  Exit #98 -- Hwy 11 into Social Circle -- can't handle it.  There are already traffic accidents all the time at the Surry Chase entrance alone.



It is obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The proposed sight isn't close to Surrey Chase....it isn't in the middle of neighborhoods....it isn't even off of Exit 98 Hwy 11.


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## erniesp

One good thing for us SC citizens is the SC Downtown Development Authority has asked the city to deny this request.


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## AnotherRacingFan

rj, you're right about the location.  I was looking at a highlighted part of a map of the site & surrounding area, thinking it was highlighted because it was part of the site.  Surry Chase is not physically adjacent.  But as the crow flies -- and as sound carries -- those subdivisions will be affected.  And if the promised growth and tourism do come about, Hwy 11 will still be burdened with even heavier traffic.  It cannot handle it.  I expect a lot of the promised tax revenue will have to go toward repairing and widening the roads leading to/from the track & downtown (again, if the promised extra business actually happens), adding signal lights, etc.  

Social Circle is not the place for this venue.  It sounds like it could be great, but not where so many people will be affected.  There isn't enough need to justify it.  There are racing venues elsewhere, at least one that Clack already owns.  There's a drag strip at Eatonton, which is not far away.  Clack suggested horse shows as well -- but there's already a top-notch horse park in nearby Conyers.  Concerts would cause noise and traffic problems like the drag strip would.  I would wish Clack the best with his venture, if he would locate it elsewhere.  The site he chose is not appropriate.

Edited to add:  I have since learned that several property owners of land surrounding the track were involved with Donnie Clack in the initial plans to annex and rezone land from 278 to 11.  While the proposed site is only on Clack's land, it is my belief that his partners have always had in mind to develop related businesses.  Hwy 11, I believe, will most _definitely_ be involved.  I don't know why this has not been acknowledged.


----------



## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> One good thing for us SC citizens is the SC Downtown Development Authority has asked the city to deny this request.



SCDDA?  Are you serious?  You should tell them to clean up the old motel and try and get 10% of the shops on the square rented out



AnotherRacingFan said:


> rj, you're right about the location.  I was looking at a highlighted part of a map of the site & surrounding area, thinking it was highlighted because it was part of the site.  Surry Chase is not physically adjacent.  But as the crow flies -- and as sound carries -- those subdivisions will be affected.  And if the promised growth and tourism do come about, Hwy 11 will still be burdened with even heavier traffic.  It cannot handle it.  I expect a lot of the promised tax revenue will have to go toward repairing and widening the roads leading to/from the track & downtown (again, if the promised extra business actually happens), adding signal lights, etc.
> 
> Social Circle is not the place for this venue.  It sounds like it could be great, but not where so many people will be affected.  There isn't enough need to justify it.  There are racing venues elsewhere, at least one that Clack already owns.  There's a drag strip at Eatonton, which is not far away.  Clack suggested horse shows as well -- but there's already a top-notch horse park in nearby Conyers.  Concerts would cause noise and traffic problems like the drag strip would.  I would wish Clack the best with his venture, if he would locate it elsewhere.  The site he chose is not appropriate.



Interesting that a person from Birmingham knows what's best for Social Circle and how close Eatonton is.  

You don't understand...the people that will use this track aren't going to be from Social Circle.  That is why it benefits SC and the surrounding community so much.  It sucks dollars away from elsewhere and lands those dollars in the businesses of Social Circle.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Looking at the 278 side of the site, there are a lot of homes right there.  The Hancock / Willow Springs area, in particular.  My family's homes are in the Hwy 11 area, so that's the part that's personal to me.  But there are many, super-nice houses adjacent to the other side.  I doubt they are excited about this kind of venue practically next door. 

I hope Mr. Clack can find some other business to set up on his property that will be profitable for him and would be actually beneficial to Social Circle.  I also hope he scouts out some suitably remote area that would still be near I-20, as he wants, for his venue.  It really could be an awesome place that a lot of people could enjoy, if his ideas pan out.  But he just can't put it where so many people would be hurt by it.  If it is true, as he says, that his main concern is to help out Social Circle, then he shouldn't want to do something that would be so harmful to so many citizens.  You know?  He just shouldn't even want to.


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## erniesp

Yes I am serious. We are working on the hotel. Last time I looked only three spots were open in town.


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## AnotherRacingFan

I live in Birmingham now.  All the rest of my family still live in Social Circle.  We had a place on Lake Sinclair many years before that.  I'm in Social Circle at least once a month, and will be tonight.  

Look, I love racing.  And living in B'ham is probably why I'm hoping for the best so far as the proposed venue goes.  Are you familiar with Barber Motorsports Park?  I love it!  If Clack has something like that in mind, it could be a wonderful thing.  But not where it will harm the homelife of so many people.  I don't know if there was similar controversy when Barber built his track.  I don't live in Leeds, so it never much worried me.  Just like the quality of life in Social Circle probably doesn't worry you.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> like the quality of life in Social Circle probably doesn't worry you.



You'd be surprised how much this little venture affects me.

Oh...and btw...like I said before, if it was another battle of Atlanta motorcross venue, I'd be against it as well.  That affected me...and having dirtbikes going on Sunday morning was not a pleasant experience.  If this project gets sunk...Donnie can thank the organizers of that motocross race as the reason.  Most of the opposition didn't occur until after that weekend....and most citizens of SC don't have a clue that that race wasn't involved with Clack.  They're being fed all sorts of stuff just to get them to sign a petition form.

Kinda reminds me of what happened with the Obama election.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> You don't understand...the people that will use this track aren't going to be from Social Circle.  That is why it benefits SC and the surrounding community so much.  It sucks dollars away from elsewhere and lands those dollars in the businesses of Social Circle.



What? The people who use this track won't be from Social Circle?  But one of the arguments was that it will keep the Social Circle kids off the streets, give them something to do, keep them from burning up the town roads because they'll be at the track instead.   

Another argument was that it would draw new homeowners because Social Circle would finally no longer be a "podunk" area; new settlers wouldn't have to drive so far to enjoy the excitement of a drag strip (all the way to Eatonton) or "drive three hours to go to a concert."  (Btw, NO ONE from Social Circle has to drive 3 hours to attend a concert.  Downtown Atlanta is about 45 mins. away; the Gwinnett venue takes about an hour.  Again, no real need for it to be in SC.)

But now your argument is that I don't understand:  The benefit to Social Circle is that no one who actually lives in Social Circle will use it.

You're right.  With these arguments going every which way, I _don't_ understand.


----------



## Backlasher82

rjcruiser said:


> You'd be surprised how much this little venture affects me.



Obviously you would be surprised at how much this little venture DOES effect people who actually live in Social Circle or you wouldn't be arguing so hard for this track. 

It's really pretty simple, NOBODY wants to live next to a racetrack. Period. Exclamation point. Nobody.

You keep saying their property values will go up because it will all go commercial and sell for more. That's incorrect, at least in the next 20 years or so. In the meantime the bottom will fall out of the value of their homes because nobody wants to live next to a racetrack.
No new housing will be built because of the racetrack, the folks that live there now won't be able to give their houses away and move to a residential area because there is no shortage of land around Social Circle so the types of businesses that can survive will buy the undeveloped land.
And the folks that live there will have to put up with the noise, traffic and lower quality of life unless they can afford to sell their home for a loss.
And whoever used Commerce as an example of how great a dragstrip is for a community doesn't know the history of that very well. The only reason that area got built up was because Tanger Outlet opened up. The area flourished in spite of the racetrack, not because of it. The dragstrip had been there for 20 years and the only thing around there were a few gas stations and fast food places, pretty much what you'll find at most exits off I85. When Tanger opened up, more shops opened and restaurants followed. The widening of 441 between Commerce and Athens helped greatly too. But the dragstrip didn't. As a matter of fact, traffic is so bad on race weekends that getting to Tanger, Home Depot and other shopping is such a hassle that most folks avoid it like the plague.

But the bottom line is that the dragstrip and other venues in that complex would be the worst thing that could happen to the people who live in Social Circle.

And if the zoning is approved, you can bet your bottom dollar that somebody got paid off.


----------



## aa136

There are already traffic accidents all the time at the Surry Chase entrance alone. 


Wow I work for Newton Co. and work that area. I see a few minor wrecks there from time to time but not much. This track should not affect that area at all. And we never work any wrecks at the 278 exit


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## AnotherRacingFan

Maybe I bring bad luck with me when I come in from out of town.  (Safe passage here tonight, though, thank goodness.)  I've seen two myself, just in the past year or so.  One in the daytime when a resident was turning left into Surrey Chase & a car came along at too high a speed, swerved to miss her, & smashed into the telephone pole at the entrance, snapping it in half.  Another after a football game one night this fall -- a car was run off the road & down the slight embankment on the other side, right across from the Surry Chase entrance.  No one was seriously hurt, but there were many police cars there and several fire trucks, and a lot of teens milling about the wreckage.    Like you said, there are minor wrecks, too.

I wouldn't know about wrecks at 278.

One night I came onto Hwy 11 by way of downtown SC & was stopped with a whole string of cars at DUI roadblock.  Must have been a dozen police cars there.  That wasn't fun.  Is there need for that often?

If the track brings in tourism & revitalizes the downtown area as promised, there will be a lot of traffic on 11.  Say folks went into town for a bite to eat after an event; if they came from Atlanta, they won't go home by way of 278, back by the track.  They'll go home via 11.  And if it's as successful as anticipated, sooner or later there might be call for an access road along 20, connecting 278 & 11.  Possibly Mr. Clack will have purchased the buffer land by then.  Just speculation on my part, of course.


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## AnotherRacingFan

Btw, aa, if you are an officer of the law, I salute you.



This little emoticon is winking, but I am serious.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Maybe I bring bad luck with me when I come in from out of town.  (Safe passage here tonight, though, thank goodness.)  I've seen two myself, just in the past year or so.  One in the daytime when a resident was turning left into Surrey Chase & a car came along at too high a speed, swerved to miss her, & smashed into the telephone pole at the entrance, snapping it in half.  Another after a football game one night this fall -- a car was run off the road & down the slight embankment on the other side, right across from the Surry Chase entrance.  No one was seriously hurt, but there were many police cars there and several fire trucks, and a lot of teens milling about the wreckage.    Like you said, there are minor wrecks, too.
> 
> I wouldn't know about wrecks at 278.
> 
> One night I came onto Hwy 11 by way of downtown SC & was stopped with a whole string of cars at DUI roadblock.  Must have been a dozen police cars there.  That wasn't fun.  Is there need for that often?
> 
> If the track brings in tourism & revitalizes the downtown area as promised, there will be a lot of traffic on 11.  Say folks went into town for a bite to eat after an event; if they came from Atlanta, they won't go home by way of 278, back by the track.  They'll go home via 11.  And if it's as successful as anticipated, sooner or later there might be call for an access road along 20, connecting 278 & 11.  Possibly Mr. Clack will have purchased the buffer land by then.  Just speculation on my part, of course.



For The Record, YES I DO live in the area and NO it ain't a shack. As the crow flies, less than 2 miles, about the same as the folks you mention and worry about in Surrey Chase. I have a substantial investment here and have already took a huge beating on the downfall of the housing market. (So if you're looking for a deal, come see me, I'll take the hit and write off the loss.)

I DO support Clack's right to develop his land and build this complex.

No offense meant, but some of the residences of Surrey Chase aren't the brightest light bulbs in the box. Their driving habits re-enforce my statements. Those folks think they own the road and people are suppose to yield to their every move. I could have taken several out at their fault, including a car full of teenagers, but choose an evasive measure instead.

But that's an argument for another time.

Now that that's out of the way...... Let's set the record straight on what is and isn't out here in the boonies.....

A lot of "stuff" has happened in this area the past 10 years or so that a few of us tried to stop. Primarily that industrial park. But even you know a hand full of folks in a pickup ain't gunna stop a freight train running wide open.

As far as the Hwy 11 Interchange goes (Exit 98), when it was redesigned and rebuilt several years ago it was designed on a 25 year plan and to handle over 100,000 trips per day in anticipation of the Perimeter College expansion that would eventually house 15-25,000 students. 

The only additional requirements would be the widening of Hwy 11 to the Hub Junction at Hwy 278 and the bypass around historic Social Circle which is still in the planning stages. (Those Surrey Chase folks are opposing that as well and it'll actually make Hwy 11 safer. Go figure) 

And of course traffic lights on the North side of the bridge. (However at a later date they discussed moving Alcovy Trestle and merging it with Harris Springs Road.)

The plan also included a NEW township being built from the ground up called Mt Pleasant adjacent to the college. Mt Pleasant would be modeled and promoted as a mini Athens Ga.  

You can contact a guy named Randy Vinson in Covington about a copy of the plans. They have them all. Everything from the infrastructure, to the homes and businesses themselves.

Randy is a professor for UGA and runs an urban design class in Covington. Those kids get OJT while working on projects and spending a semester at the Covington studio campus. Mt Pleasant was his brainchild.

He was also the Newton County special projects coordinator and later the Head Administrator of Planning and Zoning when all this was still in the conceptual stages.

Now he works as the Chief Planner for the City of Covington. 

Likewise, the Hwy 278 (Exit 101) interchange was designed to handle just as much traffic for that new super duper industrial park the multi-county jurisdiction built that isn't needed. 

All the county leaders swore they had companies lined up by the dozens to purchase land and relocate there.

All the while the reasons were politically motivated by one persons dream of building a new reservoir, which also wasn't/isn't needed and an excuse to do so. Did they ever pull the wool over everyone's eyes and even sucked 3 other counties into the deal.

Politics at it's finest.

And that my friend is the shortened Paul Harvey version on what is and ain't on Hwy 11 and Hwy 278.

So here we sit now with MILLIONS of tax payer funds tied up in a waste land with no tenants in sight, well maybe one, but who knows and MILLIONS more spent on purchasing land for a reservoir that was never needed,and MILLIONS more spent on the Interstate Interchanges with NO traffic and is it's being used as an excuse not to allow a land owner his rights to develop his property in a manner he sees fit.

Like I said, Politics at it's finest.

Now as far as people going to Atlanta from the proposed race track, why would anyone travel to Hwy 11 and go through Social Circle if they were going to Atlanta? Isn't the closest distance between two points a straight line? And I-20 goes STRAIGHT to Atlanta.

When you visited from Alabama did you travel through Social Circle and Monroe to get back to Atlanta and eventually to Alabama?

On the other hand, anyone wanting something to eat, or those traveling North towards Monroe, Winder and Athens would likely travel on Willow Springs Road to the Hightower truck route by pass and into Social Circle the back way, which would be about 8 miles closer. And they would by pass Social Circles downtown area, which has nothing to offer to begin with as well. 

OH yeah, there's that over rated place that serves canned beans and such at $20 per plate. Whoopie!!!!!!!!! Other than that, all Social Circle has to offer is a Checkers hamburger, a sorry excuse for a pizza and those wings that are just as horrific. (Well I kind of retract that statement, the wings are OK if Jack's there, but those young'un's in the evening they could care less.)

You're probably right that this race complex won't bring a lot of development with it, but it's a start and those folks will spend money which in turn will generate tax revenue. Not to mention the taxes on the property will increase from bare land to a commercial development.

Who knows how this will shake out now. 

Like I've said before, I know Clack and wish him well. Maybe he can pull this off. Guess we'll see in the future.


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## pete56

i lived next to southeastern dragway in dallas and then 1/2 mile from a new super walmart give me the drag strip anytime because the traffic is not all night.


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## Jody Hawk

I am against the drag strip because it would wipe out some dang good rabbit hunting !!!!!!!! I've hunted this property as a guest the past couple of years and it is a rabbit paradise. Besides, I'd rather hear beagles race than cars race anyday !!!!!!


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## AnotherRacingFan

Doc, I'm not sure if your whole answer was directed at me.  I'm really puzzled by most of it.   You quoted my whole post but I didn't bring up many of the points you are making.

You seem really angry, & if my post is the cause, then please know my intention was not to anger you.  I didn't ask if you live in the area nor did I ask what kind of house you own.  I don't think I asked you any personal questions.

All I know of you is what you've posted on threads in this forum.  I can tell that you are very intelligent, mostly good-natured, & probably a man I'd be proud to know.  I just disagree with you on this issue is all.  You and I have different irons in this fire.   I can respect and sympathize with your position, even if you are not willing to consider mine.

I see I was not clear enough in my post about return traffic on Hwy 11.  I was talking about the route they would take back to I-20 -- I meant that, from downtown, there would be additional traffic on Hwy 11 past Surry Chase, because that's the route they'd take _back to 20_.  Aa was saying that Hwy 11 wouldn't come into play at all.  The scenario I mentioned was a response to that.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Doc, I'm not sure if your whole answer was directed at me.  I'm really puzzled by most of it.   You quoted my whole post but I didn't bring up many of the points you are making.
> 
> You seem really angry, & if my post is the cause, then please know my intention was not to anger you.  I didn't ask if you live in the area nor did I ask what kind of house you own.  I don't think I asked you any personal questions.
> 
> All I know of you is what you've posted on threads in this forum.  I can tell that you are very intelligent, mostly good-natured, & probably a man I'd be proud to know.  I just disagree with you on this issue is all.  You and I have different irons in this fire.   I can respect and sympathize with your position, even if you are not willing to consider mine.
> 
> I see I was not clear enough in my post about return traffic on Hwy 11.  I was talking about the route they would take back to I-20 -- I meant that, from downtown, there would be additional traffic on Hwy 11 past Surry Chase, because that's the route they'd take _back to 20_.  Aa was saying that Hwy 11 wouldn't come into play at all.  The scenario I mentioned was a response to that.



Nah bud, there's no anger in my post and if it came across as such I do humbly apologize to you and the board members.

I don't normally read "tones" into postings as I don't know the posters intent.

My post was to illustrate I do have a vested interest in the area and am well aware and informed of the plans about the area.

There's a lot of MIS-information out there from those against this project.

In your original post, you did stress people would be using Hwy 11 as an exit point, which isn't true at all. Hwy 11 may be used by some, but not many.

This area is slated for major expansion that was slowed to a crawl by the housing bust and banking crash.

It may be 20 years now, but these projects will eventually be built and the folks around here will be screaming about those as well.

I'm of the nature a person should be able to use his land as he see's fit.



> "A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."  - General George Patton Jr



Like I said, no offense meant towards anyone, we can agree to disagree and still be friends.



> "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr


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## Doc_5729

Jody Hawk said:


> I am against the drag strip because it would wipe out some dang good rabbit hunting !!!!!!!! I've hunted this property as a guest the past couple of years and it is a rabbit paradise. Besides, I'd rather hear beagles race than cars race anyday !!!!!!



I love to hear some good dogs run Jody and I know how you feel. We used to rabbit hunt, deer hunt and camp in areas that are now under water on what became Lake Oconee.

Likewise there's areas around here now that have schools and shopping centers on them. Some of our best land in Morgan County was ate up by sub-divisions.

Progress is inevitable.

But the next time Henderson's has chitterlings I'll let ya know. That's something that'll never change. And you can have my share as well.


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## hevishot

rjcruiser said:


> Seems like a really nice facility that would boost property values and commercial access to the area.
> 
> I will say, the little dirt bike race they had 2 weeks ago off of Hwy 11 @ I-20 did a whole bunch of damage to the drag strip effort.  Now...people who weren't even close to the drag strip are wanting to keep it from coming to town.



a drag strip full of rednecks is going to BOOST property value?....not a chance.  Make it drop like a rock.  Only a "few" in this world would like hearing that horrible racket from their house and having that crowd in their town.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rj, did you say Donnie had nothing to do with that dirt bike race?


----------



## rayjay

Race tracks need to be out in the boondocks so they don't negatively impact the adjoining land owners. If people choose to move close to an existing track then they have no right to whine. Dallas dragstrip fit this scenario perfectly. It used to be the boondocks when the track was built.

If a person wants to build a new track where it will negatively impact significant numbers of neighbors then the local government has an obligation to keep it from happening imo. 

Clack's 'right' to do as he pleases with his property can't negatively impact the enjoyment of the neighbor's property.


----------



## murf

We have a oval track in downtown Antioch at the fairgrounds. They run 360 and 410 sprints on Saturday nights right in the middle of housing neighborhoods. The cars are required to run mufflers and no one complains. They use a db meter to check the cars. I've even seen people sitting on their roofs in lawn chairs-aka cheap seats-enjoying the racing.

My son drag races a fox mustang. If you go to Sacramento raceway for Friday night racing your required to run mufflers and pass a db test. As far as I know they have no noise complaints so it can be done leaving everyone happy.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> rj, did you say Donnie had nothing to do with that dirt bike race?



It's my understanding Clack had nothing to do with the event that was held on John Penland's property a few weeks ago.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> It's my understanding Clack had nothing to do with the event that was held on John Penland's property a few weeks ago.



I don't mean to be rude, so please don't misunderstand me.   I have to wonder how you know that, though...?  How can you be sure?


----------



## rjcruiser

hevishot said:


> a drag strip full of rednecks is going to BOOST property value?....not a chance.  Make it drop like a rock.  Only a "few" in this world would like hearing that horrible racket from their house and having that crowd in their town.



When it comes to money...I'm not prejudiced by who it comes from, as long as it is coming to me.



AnotherRacingFan said:


> rj, did you say Donnie had nothing to do with that dirt bike race?



Yup.



rayjay said:


> Race tracks need to be out in the boondocks so they don't negatively impact the adjoining land owners. If people choose to move close to an existing track then they have no right to whine. Dallas dragstrip fit this scenario perfectly. It used to be the boondocks when the track was built.
> 
> If a person wants to build a new track where it will negatively impact significant numbers of neighbors then the local government has an obligation to keep it from happening imo.
> 
> Clack's 'right' to do as he pleases with his property can't negatively impact the enjoyment of the neighbor's property.



rayjay....this track is out in the boondocks.



Doc_5729 said:


> It's my understanding Clack had nothing to do with the event that was held on John Penland's property a few weeks ago.



That's it.



AnotherRacingFan said:


> I don't mean to be rude, so please don't misunderstand me.   I have to wonder how you know that, though...?  How can you be sure?



It was in the local paper....see here.  http://www.covnews.com/news/article/10506/



			
				Covington News said:
			
		

> Concerns at the meeting were heightened after a motorbike race called the Battle of Atlanta at Social Circle was held on private property off Highway 11 over the weekend. The race allegedly brought in several hundred spectators, as well as many riders, who proceeded to race motorbikes for eight hours.
> 
> The race brought to the forefront the concerns that already exist about the proposed drag strip: noise, crowds and dust. Donnie Clack, the man who proposed the re-zoning for the drag strip, was not associated with Saturday’s race



It is funny to me how this group CCOSC formed right after this Motorcross race.  Like I've said before, that little race did more damage to Clack than anything else.  And the funny thing is, it wasn't the first time that race had been held.

Then you got shirts like this.    Reminds me of all the Obama shirts on kids at school.  They have no clue what or why...they just follow someone mindlessly to look cool.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> rayjay....this track is out in the boondocks.



Not far enough in the boondocks.  Homes all along 278 on the one side, neighborhoods also affected along Hwy 11.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> rjcruiser said:
> 
> 
> 
> rayjay....this track is out in the boondocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not far enough in the boondocks.  Homes all along 278 on the one side, neighborhoods also affected along Hwy 11.
Click to expand...


The neighborhoods are closer to I-20 than they are to the dragstrip.  Also, like mentioned above, the dragstrip is going to require mufflers etc etc.

Yup...exit 101 is in the boondocks.  If there isn't a gas station or a traffic light...is it the boondocks.

However, with the mixed use community of Stanton Springs going up any day now....maybe I should re-consider what is boondocks.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> The neighborhoods are closer to I-20 than they are to the dragstrip.  Also, like mentioned above, the dragstrip is going to require mufflers etc etc.
> 
> Yup...exit 103 is in the boondocks.  If there isn't a gas station or a traffic light...is it the boondocks.
> 
> However, with the mixed use community of Stanton Springs going up any day now....maybe I should re-consider what is boondocks.



Come on.  Drag races with mufflers are still painfully loud.  It'll be a lot louder for those folks than I-20 is.  It will be an unbearable nuisance for many.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> It was in the local paper....see here.  http://www.covnews.com/news/article/10506/
> 
> It is funny to me how this group CCOSC formed right after this Motorcross race.  Like I've said before, that little race did more damage to Clack than anything else.  And the funny thing is, it wasn't the first time that race had been held.



That article lists no source for the assertion that Donnie wasn't involved.  How do you know for sure he wasn't, in one respect or another?

Why is it "funny" that the group formed right after that?  I don't know if it was coinicidental or not, what with the race and hearings being in pretty much the same time frame.  But it makes sense.  It pointed out how horrible it would be to have to suffer noise from race vehicles of any kind.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> That article lists no source for the assertion that Donnie wasn't involved.  How do you know for sure he wasn't, in one respect or another?



Geez.....to you and the CCOSC, it is a conspiracy.  I'm sure the Covington News is in with Donnie about hiding the truth.  I wonder.....is Rahm helping out the CCOSC with getting this thing stopped?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

No need to be insulting, RJ, though I sure am impressed that you can upload cute pictures.  Jazzes up the page.  

But I sure never suggested the paper was conspiring to hide the truth.  

Although someone may be.  ;-)

Maybe the reporter asked Donnie, was it you?  And Donnie said, Nope, wasn't me.


----------



## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> The neighborhoods are closer to I-20 than they are to the dragstrip.  Also, like mentioned above, the dragstrip is going to require mufflers etc etc.
> 
> Yup...exit 103 is in the boondocks.  If there isn't a gas station or a traffic light...is it the boondocks.
> 
> However, with the mixed use community of Stanton Springs going up any day now....maybe I should re-consider what is boondocks.



So where exactly is exit 103. Never seen that one. They must have added this new exit this weekend.


----------



## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> So where exactly is exit 103. Never seen that one. They must have added this new exit this weekend.



101.  fixed it.  Good catch.


----------



## Backlasher82

rjcruiser said:


> The neighborhoods are closer to I-20 than they are to the dragstrip.  Also, like mentioned above, the dragstrip is going to require mufflers etc etc.



Mufflers or not, 127db is past the pain threshold and that's what the folks backing the dragstrip claim the noise levels will be.


----------



## rjcruiser

Backlasher82 said:


> Mufflers or not, 127db is past the pain threshold and that's what the folks backing the dragstrip claim the noise levels will be.



127db?  Can you point me to where that is coming from?  I've searched the news sites and can't come up with any claim other than it won't be a problem from the Clack side to it will be too much from the CCOSC side.


----------



## erniesp

This is whatt I have found. None to 127 but they are up there.
Bassani Street 83 96 120 
Bassani Real Street 84 96 Max. 
Borla XS 80 90 110 
Borla XR1 83 96 118 
DynoMax Ultra Flo 83 94 113 
Edelbrock RPM 84 93 118 
Flowmaster 82 93 115 
Flowtech Afterburner 86 94 115 
Flowtech Terminator 86 94 119 
Flowtech Warlock 83 92 112 
Hooker Aerochamber 87 94 114 
Hooker MAXflow 80 90 120 
MAC 87 98 119 
MagnaFlow 82 91 114 
SpinTech 87 97 116 

The last number is the db at WOT. Tested on a Ford Mustang


----------



## Backlasher82

rjcruiser said:


> 127db?  Can you point me to where that is coming from?  I've searched the news sites and can't come up with any claim other than it won't be a problem from the Clack side to it will be too much from the CCOSC side.



Here you go:http://waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=847664e4d02c1412


----------



## rjcruiser

Backlasher82 said:


> Here you go:http://waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=847664e4d02c1412



Interesting.

Found this  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

Has a chainsaw at 1M at 110 Decibels.  Wonder if the CCOSC are going to ban those too

Another thing that I thought was interesting about the article was that it mentioned the direction of the cars and that they would be driving away from I-20.  In other words, the sound would be pushed away from neighbors towards I-20.  

When you think of a chainsaw...is that too loud?  That would surely be drowned out by the traffic on I-20.


----------



## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Found this  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
> 
> Has a chainsaw at 1M at 110 Decibels.  Wonder if the CCOSC are going to ban those too
> 
> Another thing that I thought was interesting about the article was that it mentioned the direction of the cars and that they would be driving away from I-20.  In other words, the sound would be pushed away from neighbors towards I-20.
> 
> When you think of a chainsaw...is that too loud?  That would surely be drowned out by the traffic on I-20.



Just curious.... Why are you for the drag strip?


----------



## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> Just curious.... Why are you for the drag strip?



So I can try and sell my 3 wheeler to some guy as a pit bike

No..really...all kidding aside.  I guess I'm for it as I see it as a way to help develop Newton County.  I look at some of the reason's that people are against it and I think that most of them are unfounded. 

I see a lot of good commercial things coming to this area because of it.  I look at Madison and see how that town used to be nothing at I-20.  Then a truckstop.  A superWalMart.  A Lowes.  A Starbucks.  All this where there was nothing.  And to think, Covington has nothing...well, we got the SuperWalMart and HD now.

Like Doc has said before, it will only help the property tax issue and with that, help property values as well.  So far...this master plan for Newton County hasn't come to fruition, so anything to help with it.  Seeing some of the responses above make it seem like a great option (people spending $1k or more in a weekend at a track).

The more commercialization...the more jobs...the more money in the local economy.  Even if they are hourly jobs, they help out.


----------



## erniesp

Fair enough.


----------



## insanehunter

rj cruiser you are a smart man!


----------



## Backlasher82

rjcruiser said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Found this  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
> 
> Has a chainsaw at 1M at 110 Decibels.  Wonder if the CCOSC are going to ban those too
> 
> Another thing that I thought was interesting about the article was that it mentioned the direction of the cars and that they would be driving away from I-20.  In other words, the sound would be pushed away from neighbors towards I-20.
> 
> When you think of a chainsaw...is that too loud?  That would surely be drowned out by the traffic on I-20.



Here is something else pretty interesting:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99405.htm

This study puts chainsaw noise at 100db, and yes I say a chainsaw is pretty loud. 

However, the interesting thing about the physics site listed above is that it it lists a Jet plane takeoff at 100 yards.........120 dB.

You ever heard a jet take off from 100 yards? 

I've heard them take off from a lot further away than 100 yards and it was WAY past tolerable.

So, you think that's the kind of noise you'd like to hear from your front porch?

You keep making fun of the folks from Social Circle and ridiculing them for opposing the dragstrip because according to you it will make their property values go up and make their lives so much better?

It's one thing to move next to a dragstrip or airport because the house was super cheap, it's another thing to buy a house in a quiet place and have a dragstrip or airport move in next door. As soon as the dragstrip opens up the people who actually live in Social Circle will take a huge loss in the value of their homes.

So, why don't you try to think what your reaction would be if you heard they were going to open a second Atlanta Airport in Covington a couple of miles from your house.


----------



## ultramag

Jody Hawk said:


> I am against the drag strip because it would wipe out some dang good rabbit hunting !!!!!!!! I've hunted this property as a guest the past couple of years and it is a rabbit paradise. Besides, I'd rather hear beagles race than cars race anyday !!!!!!



Thank you Jody..I am sorry i have not been able to hunt with you this year..I am just trying to keep my crews busy this year...but you know that i would rather be hunting with you and brandon and lil bit..and i agree with you ...i would rather hear beagles running than a bunch of cars racing any day !!!!!!!!


----------



## ultramag

rjcruiser said:


> So I can try and sell my 3 wheeler to some guy as a pit bike
> 
> No..really...all kidding aside.  I guess I'm for it as I see it as a way to help develop Newton County.  I look at some of the reason's that people are against it and I think that most of them are unfounded.
> 
> I see a lot of good commercial things coming to this area because of it.  I look at Madison and see how that town used to be nothing at I-20.  Then a truckstop.  A superWalMart.  A Lowes.  A Starbucks.  All this where there was nothing.  And to think, Covington has nothing...well, we got the SuperWalMart and HD now.
> 
> Like Doc has said before, it will only help the property tax issue and with that, help property values as well.  So far...this master plan for Newton County hasn't come to fruition, so anything to help with it.  Seeing some of the responses above make it seem like a great option (people spending $1k or more in a weekend at a track).
> 
> The more commercialization...the more jobs...the more money in the local economy.  Even if they are hourly jobs, they help out.



well i still say no......put the track in MadisonI dont want to hear it from my house


----------



## ultramag

erniesp said:


> Fair enough.



dont listen to him ernie...we dont want a race track here in social circle!!!!


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I don't mean to be rude, so please don't misunderstand me.   I have to wonder how you know that, though...?  How can you be sure?



It was in the local papers, but I'll call Donnie and/or John today and make it a point to find out if the papers were correct or not.


----------



## Doc_5729

ultramag said:


> dont listen to him ernie... "I"  dont want a race track here in social circle!!!!



Fixed. 

No offense bud, but don't speak as if everyone is against this.


----------



## Doc_5729

ultramag said:


> well i still say no......put the track in MadisonI dont want to hear it from my house



I'm not slamming you bud, but I'd like to ask you a couple of questions....

What about that Industrial Park behind you? What are you gunna do when they start building and running factories 24/7? 

And btw, did you  know that the Fuch's property (Fox Winery)  between Hwy 11 and 229 is zoned as yet another Industrial Park complex?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> It was in the local papers, but I'll call Donnie and/or John today and make it a point to find out if the papers were correct or not.



It's cool, Doc.  I'm just trying to make a point, clumsy though it may be.  I don't have reason to think that Donnie was _directly_ involved.  He says he wasn't, and you supporters sure are upset that the race happened.  Yes, I think it hurt his cause a lot.  All the folks who are opposed were already opposed, but from the Hwy 11 side, I'm sure it sealed the deal.  It was horrible.  The organizers seem like real nice folks, and Penland's lot was a perfect setting from a racer's point of view, BUT Penland's lot is located along residential neighborhoods.  People I talked to wayyyy back in River Cove were plagued by the noise. Hate to think what Penland and Bettis will do with their land if the track is approved.

The fact is, though, Donnie is _indirectly_ involved with the event, even if the race happened without his approval.  If I were him, I'd be ticked that a partner's kid went rogue on me.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> It's cool, Doc.  I'm just trying to make a point, clumsy though it may be.  I don't have reason to think that Donnie was _directly_ involved.  He says he wasn't, and you supporters sure are upset that the race happened.  Yes, I think it hurt his cause a lot.  All the folks who are opposed were already opposed, but from the Hwy 11 side, I'm sure it sealed the deal.  It was horrible.  The organizers seem like real nice folks, and Penland's lot was a perfect setting from a racer's point of view, BUT Penland's lot is located along residential neighborhoods.  People I talked to wayyyy back in River Cove were plagued by the noise. Hate to think what Penland and Bettis will do with their land if the track is approved.
> 
> The fact is, though, Donnie is _indirectly_ involved with the event, even if the race happened without his approval.  If I were him, I'd be ticked that a partner's kid went rogue on me.




Don't you mean Surrey Chase?

Oh...and about them getting so upset about the motocross race...funny thing about it is that I've witnessed neighbors riding on the land back there on more than one occassion.  Hmmm...maybe they just don't want to see land they've always trespassed on be developed

Lastly...you keep driving that Donnie was involved with the race.  I posted the pic about the foil as a joke...but I'm starting to think you might really need some


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> Don't you mean Surrey Chase?
> 
> Oh...and about them getting so upset about the motocross race...funny thing about it is that I've witnessed neighbors riding on the land back there on more than one occassion.  Hmmm...maybe they just don't want to see land they've always trespassed on be developed
> 
> Lastly...you keep driving that Donnie was involved with the race.  I posted the pic about the foil as a joke...but I'm starting to think you might really need some



No, sir.  I mean what I said.  Obviously, Surrey Chase residents were outraged about the race (with one notable exception).  I'm saying it was SO LOUD that the folks wayyyyyyy, wayyyyyyyyyyy back in the River Cove area were disturbed by the noise.  And those motocross bikes are wind-up toys compared to what's coming to the drag strip.  (That's not even addressing the mess of the sand drags being considered.  I don't think most of the Social Circle folks know about that.  Donnie sure hasn't announced it in any hearings or newspaper articles that I know of.)

Regarding Donnie's involvement, please re-read the last two sentences of my post.  

You know, you and many of Donnie's other supporters perplex me a little.  I've never heard any opponents overtly insult any individual involved with the drag strip, even though they oppose it.  But most of Donnie's supporters' comments have been, at best, disrespectful toward the town and its citizens.  At worst, sarcastic and insulting.  Even as he claims to want to help Social Circle, Donnie keeps referring to the town as "podunk."  I tell you, friend, that went over like the proverbial t*rd in a punchbowl.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> No, sir.  I mean what I said.  Obviously, Surrey Chase residents were outraged about the race (with one notable exception).  I'm saying it was SO LOUD that the folks wayyyyyyy, wayyyyyyyyyyy back in the River Cove area were disturbed by the noise.  And those motocross bikes are wind-up toys compared to what's coming to the drag strip.  (That's not even addressing the mess of the sand drags being considered.  I don't think most of the Social Circle folks know about that.  Donnie sure hasn't announced it in any hearings or newspaper articles that I know of.)



Sand bags?  Please enlighten us all.



			
				AnotherRacingFan said:
			
		

> You know, you and many of Donnie's other supporters perplex me a little.  I've never heard any opponents overtly insult any individual involved with the drag strip, even though they oppose it.  But most of Donnie's supporters' comments have been, at best, disrespectful toward the town and its citizens.  At worst, sarcastic and insulting.  Even as he claims to want to help Social Circle, Donnie keeps referring to the town as "podunk."  I tell you, friend, that went over like the proverbial t*rd in a punchbowl.



Really...no insults...just insinuations of conspiracy.

Oh..and about Social Circle being "podunk."  The town citizens can say they want to keep their town a quite little quaint town with only one traffic signal (aka podunk), but when someone else calls it the same, they get offended.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> Sand bags?  Please enlighten us all.
> 
> 
> 
> Really...no insults...just insinuations of conspiracy.
> 
> Oh..and about Social Circle being "podunk."  The town citizens can say they want to keep their town a quite little quaint town with only one traffic signal (aka podunk), but when someone else calls it the same, they get offended.



Sand drags, not sand bags.  Sand drags and mud bogging.  Ask _Donnie_ to enlighten us all.  He really should have already.  

Or are you saying that he has never considered these activities for the new drag strip?

No insinuations of conspiracy.  You implied it, I denied it.  But if I had "insinuated conspiracy," that would be a far cry from what has been said to us, and what we have been called.  

As for your defense of name-calling, you just proved my point.


----------



## erniesp

ultramag said:


> dont listen to him ernie...we dont want a race track here in social circle!!!!



I was just seeing if he was here just to argue or had a valid point in the matter. You are right we don't want a drag strip in Social Circle.


----------



## rayjay

I found this while do a search on DB :

A doubling of the sensed volume (loudness) is equivalent 
 to a level change approximately between 6 dB and 10 dB.

So using the earlier chainsaw at 110 DB at 1m as an example.

Lets say you took off the muffler and it was exactly twice as loud. Now what would the DB go up to ???? The new DB reading would be between 116 and 120 db at 1m.

What this means is that a little difference in the DB number is a huge difference in the noise.

Also a DB number doesn't mean anything without having a distance specified.  Is the 127 DB measured at 1 meter or is that in the neighbor's living room ?


----------



## rjcruiser

rayjay said:


> I found this while do a search on DB :
> 
> A doubling of the sensed volume (loudness) is equivalent
> to a level change approximately between 6 dB and 10 dB.
> 
> So using the earlier chainsaw at 110 DB at 1m as an example.
> 
> Lets say you took off the muffler and it was exactly twice as loud. Now what would the DB go up to ???? The new DB reading would be between 116 and 120 db at 1m.
> 
> What this means is that a little difference in the DB number is a huge difference in the noise.
> 
> Also a DB number doesn't mean anything without having a distance specified.  Is the 127 DB measured at 1 meter or is that in the neighbor's living room ?



Not sure on the doubling...but going from 6dbs to 10dbs is an increase of 165%.

So does that mean that every 4 db is doubling?  or does that mean at 110DB, you'd have to increase that 110DB by 165% to effectively double the sound?  (in other words, 181.5DB is twice the noise of 110DB).

Just an honest question RayJay.


----------



## rayjay

What I can find says that 116 to 120 DB is twice as loud as 110 db


----------



## rjcruiser

rayjay said:


> What I can find says that 116 to 120 DB is twice as loud as 110 db



Interesting.  Just googled it and found this table as well.

150 Firecracker 
120 Ambulance siren  
110 Chain saw, Rock concert  
105 Personal stereo system at maximum level  
100 Wood shop, Snowmobile  
95 Motorcycle 
90 Power mower  
85 Heavy city traffic  
60 Normal conversation  
40 Refrigerator humming 
30 Whispered voice  

boy...why can't decibels be easy to measure

seems like every website has a different view of loudness.  oh well...carry on...carry on.


----------



## firebiker

*Build it,they will come !
Build it, I can't see it or hear it from my House !*


----------



## erniesp

firebiker said:


> *Build it,they will come !
> Build it, I can't see it or hear it from my House !*



Stop it. They can go to Eatonton.


----------



## Doc_5729

erniesp said:


> Stop it. They can go to Eatonton.



You know Ernie, I could say move to Buckhead and it won't be a problem for you either way.  But I won't do that bud.

But I will say at over 4 miles away, which you stated is where you live in proximity to this property, it will have little or no affect on you or your property.

At 4 miles, you're either below Rutledge or well North of Social Circle and buffered by millions of trees.

But I'd be willing to bet you have neighbors busting lose on 4-wheelers and dirt bikes and all sorts of other noise making stuff around you now that generates more nuisance than this track will.

I know it happens because there was an idiot that just went down the road I live on on a 4-wheeler without a muffler. Or if he had one it was gutted. Shook my desk.

But there's one thing for sure, it's just a matter of time before they are stopped and it'll be so expensive they'll never ride these roads again.


----------



## erniesp

Doc_5729 said:


> You know Ernie, I could say move to Buckhead and it won't be a problem for you either way.  But I won't do that bud.
> 
> But I will say at over 4 miles away, which you stated is where you live in proximity to this property, it will have little or no affect on you or your property.
> 
> At 4 miles, you're either below Rutledge or well North of Social Circle and buffered by millions of trees.
> 
> But I'd be willing to bet you have neighbors busting lose on 4-wheelers and dirt bikes and all sorts of other noise making stuff around you now that generates more nuisance than this track will.
> 
> I know it happens because there was an idiot that just went down the road I live on on a 4-wheeler without a muffler. Or if he had one it was gutted. Shook my desk.
> 
> But there's one thing for sure, it's just a matter of time before they are stopped and it'll be so expensive they'll never ride these roads again.



Nope neither. No one rides 4 wheelers or dirt bikes up our road. There are a few golf carts that go by. You can't hear them though. 

You know you talk about this secret company coming in from California. How are they going to make so much noise making their computer chips. I think you know enough to be dangerous, but that is ok. 

I would love to live in the real Buckhead. If I didn't have to travel an hour already for work I would go. I think I will stay and see this project get denied.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> It's cool, Doc.  I'm just trying to make a point, clumsy though it may be.  I don't have reason to think that Donnie was _directly_ involved.  He says he wasn't, and you supporters sure are upset that the race happened.



Wrong again bud. That race didn't bother me in the least. 

I had no idea it was even going on until I just happen to ride by on my way to visit relatives in Monroe. I saw those cops when they attempted to shut it down. Heard they left a lot quicker than they got there. Not sure if that's true or not, just what I was told...

And for the record, I support Clack's right to develop his land as he see's fit, just like I support your right to develop yours.

It's so screwed up around here now that WE have to ask for PERMISSION from the county just to build a shed in our yards. A DOG GONE SHED for crying out loud. 

That's absurd bud. Where's our Freedoms and Liberties?

Since that land is currently zoned Agricultural, if SC turns this down, I hope Clack puts 10,000 hogs out there and starts a farming operation. Or maybe 20 chicken houses would be better.


----------



## erniesp

One more thing. My hunting property is about 6 miles from Durhamtown. Millions of trees between me and them. Sitting in a stand at 9 am you can hear them fire those bikes up and go around the track like they are just down the street. I could imagine what a drag car or sand drag buggy will sound like at 4 miles.


----------



## Backlasher82

Doc_5729 said:


> You know Ernie, I could say move to Buckhead and it won't be a problem for you either way.  But I won't do that bud.
> 
> But I will say at over 4 miles away, which you stated is where you live in proximity to this property, it will have little or no affect on you or your property.



That is not true.

I used to live outside of Winder, about 6 miles from the WB Speedway as the crow flies and I could hear the cars just like they were right down the road from me. 

And it does seem like a folks on here are quick to tell the folks from Social Circle to just buy a new house and move if they don't like the idea of living next to a dragstrip. Never mind the money they will lose on their home, if they can even find a buyer at all, or uprooting their family and moving their kids away from their friends.

It'll all be worth it as long as nobody has to drive that extra 30 miles to the existing track in Eatonton. 

Well, it'll be worth it for the people who don't live in Social Circle and that's all that matters right?


----------



## Doc_5729

erniesp said:


> I think you know enough to be dangerous, but that is ok.
> 
> I would love to live in the real Buckhead. If I didn't have to travel an hour already for work I would go. I think I will stay and see this project get denied.



You'd be surprised at who I know Ernie. Seriously.  BUT I won't post my sources here on this board. If you'd like to meet and discuss it face to face let me know.

Honestly, I think they'll turn it down too......

Hate to see it happen, but it'll probably never fly. Kind of like that regional airport a few years back. Died a quiet slow death.

Speaking of Buckhead, I grew up in Buckhead. Still have relatives and property out that way. And a few friends. Nice place it is.

I sort of miss deer, rabbit and turkey hunting. Shooting ducks, doves and such. But when I think I may want to get out and go again........ I suddenly remember how easy it is to just run to the grocery store.


----------



## aa136

Its funny everyone is against this but that park right accross the interstate could potentially have a plant that makes more noise than the track would. I hear traffic on I-20 from a half a mile away and that train is as noisy as anything . Also I really dont believe anyone living on Hwy 11 or is Social Circle will be effected. I believe it will impact some people as any large business does wether its noise or traffic or smell its all an impact. I believe these people in the group against the track are misinformed and most are house wives living off of there husbands with nothing else to do. I can understand the people in the immediate area being concerned and making sure that sound barriers and proper traffic control is in place but not people in town. And if you have even been to a track  you would know most of the noise is at the starting line and mostly behind the car, and thats the way the sound will travel. Right toward I-20


----------



## erniesp

aa136 said:


> Its funny everyone is against this but that park right accross the interstate could potentially have a plant that makes more noise than the track would. I hear traffic on I-20 from a half a mile away and that train is as noisy as anything . Also I really dont believe anyone living on Hwy 11 or is Social Circle will be effected. I believe it will impact some people as any large business does wether its noise or traffic or smell its all an impact. I believe these people in the group against the track are misinformed and most are house wives living off of there husbands with nothing else to do. I can understand the people in the immediate area being concerned and making sure that sound barriers and proper traffic control is in place but not people in town. And if you have even been to a track  you would know most of the noise is at the starting line and mostly behind the car, and thats the way the sound will travel. Right toward I-20



Really? How many plants have you been to that you could hear 4-6 miles down the road. 

What is wrong with a house wife? I wish I had the means so my wife could stay home. 

You say most of the noise is at the starting line. I guess when they take off they automatically hit the kill switch and coast the rest of the way.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Wrong again bud. That race didn't bother me in the least.
> 
> I had no idea it was even going on until I just happen to ride by on my way to visit relatives in Monroe. I saw those cops when they attempted to shut it down. Heard they left a lot quicker than they got there. Not sure if that's true or not, just what I was told...



Sorry, Doc, I shouldn't have put words in your mouth.  I should have said SOME supporters rather than YOU supporters.  I meant they were upset about the race for Donnie's sake, not for the noise or anything like that.  It's been said by supporters about 3 times on here that the race damaged Donnie's cause.  Not said by you, though.

I didn't know that there was an attempt to shut it down.  Not sure what you mean by what you posted.  What did you hear happened, that caused the police to leave quickly?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

aa136 said:


> Also I really dont believe anyone living on Hwy 11 or is Social Circle will be effected.



Aa, I'm griping about Hwy 11 because that's where my interests are.  We believe we will be adversely affected with noise and traffic.

But if anyone was here from the 278 side, you'd be hearing more desperate complaints.  For those homeowners, this would just be the end.  No question about it.

As for no effect on Hwy 11...  Do you think for a moment that the landowners between the track and Hwy 11 aren't planning to develop track-based or track-related businesses ASAP?  One brings the other.  I argue that the track by itself will be damaging enough.  When the other comes, yes sir, there will be a lot more commotion and traffic than 11 can handle.

The exit bridge has been revamped, yes.  But I don't believe the narrow highway will hold up to the kind of traffic all this could bring.  As has been pointed out, there aren't even traffic signals for a far piece from I-20 toward downtown SC.  Watch and see.  Not only will we have massive construction on Hwy 11 there, before long we will need tax-paid signal lights, road repair, widening, you name it.  That's going to cost the city.

But again, there's no debate at all as to how badly the track will hurt the folks on 278.  And that's a goodly number of people.


----------



## Doc_5729

Backlasher82 said:


> That is not true.
> 
> I used to live outside of Winder, about 6 miles from the WB Speedway as the crow flies and I could hear the cars just like they were right down the road from me.
> 
> And it does seem like a folks on here are quick to tell the folks from Social Circle to just buy a new house and move if they don't like the idea of living next to a dragstrip. Never mind the money they will lose on their home, if they can even find a buyer at all, or uprooting their family and moving their kids away from their friends.
> 
> It'll all be worth it as long as nobody has to drive that extra 30 miles to the existing track in Eatonton.
> 
> Well, it'll be worth it for the people who don't live in Social Circle and that's all that matters right?



You missed my analogy, which was a response to Ernie's suggestion about moving the track somewhere else.

As seen, it's easy to make those suggestions and if you had read mine, you would have seen where I said; 





> You know Ernie, I could say move to Buckhead and it won't be a problem for you either way.  But I won't do that bud.



I live here too, actually closer than Ernie. 1.5 miles as the crow flies. I DO have a vested interest here.

So because I support this project my voice shouldn't count huh?


----------



## Duramax

If they get the ok to build the dragstrip and it is built.  I would support it 100%! I would also be one of the ones with a loud car drag racing at this strip.  If you don't want to hear it go inside. 

I bet alot of you go and watch NASCAR, but you never compalin about how loud that is now do you? Lets see here 2 cars running side by side for a few hours 10 seconds at a time or 43 cars running  together at the same time for a few hrs? That's a no  brainer to me?

I currently live roughly ten miles form AMS in Hampton, GA and I can hear the cars very well...do I complain no. Hammer down boys!

So how can a community claim 127db, when there have been no cars racing there to actually prove such a point?


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Aa, I'm griping about Hwy 11 because that's where my interests are.  We believe we will be adversely affected with noise and traffic.
> 
> But if anyone was here from the 278 side, you'd be hearing more desperate complaints.  For those homeowners, this would just be the end.  No question about it.
> 
> As for no effect on Hwy 11...  Do you think for a moment that the landowners between the track and Hwy 11 aren't planning to develop track-based or track-related businesses ASAP?  One brings the other.  I argue that the track by itself will be damaging enough.  When the other comes, yes sir, there will be a lot more commotion and traffic than 11 can handle.
> 
> The exit bridge has been revamped, yes.  But I don't believe the narrow highway will hold up to the kind of traffic all this could bring.  As has been pointed out, there aren't even traffic signals for a far piece from I-20 toward downtown SC.  Watch and see.  Not only will we have massive construction on Hwy 11 there, before long we will need tax-paid signal lights, road repair, widening, you name it.  That's going to cost the city.
> 
> But again, there's no debate at all as to how badly the track will hurt the folks on 278.  And that's a goodly number of people.



I've seen detours off of I-20 because of accidents that lasted for almost a day on Hwy 278 and Hwy 11 on several occasions and they will handle the traffic.

Besides that, the track entrance is less than 1/2 mile from the 278 exit entrance ramps. So traffic won't be traveling far on Hwy 278 coming to or from. So those great numbers of people affected are minuscule at the least.

Traffic lights on Hwy 278 were planned in the redesign. Whether it's now or later, they will eventually be installed.

Now back to Hwy 11.

That's a State Hwy and any improvements will be funded by the GA DOT.

And there will be NO cost to the City of Social Circle because....... the downtown area is a historic district and there's no room for "Right of Way" acquisitions inside the district.

The plan, going back several years ago was to RE-route Hwy 11 AROUND Social Circle and out of the historic district of downtown Social Circle.

Most of the traffic problems you mentioned in earlier post at the Surrey Chase entrance would have been solved, because it would have been diverted before it reached Surrey Chase. Running behind the sub-division and tying into Hightower.

HOWEVER, the preliminary DOT plan faced much opposition from Guess WHO? 

The Surrey Chase residences. Those folks over there squawk more than a flock of geese. 

btw, some of this "planning" stuff goes back 10-12 years or more.......


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Sorry, Doc, I shouldn't have put words in your mouth.  I should have said SOME supporters rather than YOU supporters.  I meant they were upset about the race for Donnie's sake, not for the noise or anything like that.  It's been said by supporters about 3 times on here that the race damaged Donnie's cause.  Not said by you, though.
> 
> I didn't know that there was an attempt to shut it down.  Not sure what you mean by what you posted.  What did you hear happened, that caused the police to leave quickly?



No problem bud.......

Yup the cops were there in full force. Saw the cars myself....... the rest of that story is rumors at this point, so I won't post it here until I verify what I was told. 

I do know the cops didn't stay there long.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Duramax said:


> If you don't want to hear it go inside.



I don't even know what to say about this.  Unbelievable attitude.  Not the first example of it.  Saw a comment to an online article that said, "Go inside and turn on your radio."  Right.  During all the time that the races, concerts, and other attractions are going on, everyone should be content to just stay indoors.  Your desire for entertainment naturally trumps the homeowners' right to live peacefully and enjoy themselves outside on their own property, property they owned before all this controversy.  If the strip was here before them, then that would be different.  This is flat-out wrong.



> I bet alot of you go and watch NASCAR, but you never compalin about how loud that is now do you? Lets see here 2 cars running side by side for a few hours 10 seconds at a time or 43 cars running  together at the same time for a few hrs? That's a no  brainer to me?



Well, of course a lot of us go to NASCAR and other races, and of course we don't complain about the noise.  Some of us are great fans of racing.  I am.  The noise is part of the excitement when you go to a race.  The difference is that attending is our choice, in that case.  It's not being forced on us.  The noise from a drag strip/concert venue/ whatever would be forced on the homeowners, preventing them from enjoying their own homes, and they would have no power over what days and times they would be bombarded by it.  As has been stated before, this is going to be a lot more than drag racing 2 days a week.  Donnie tells us he has many diverse plans for the property.

I love going to races.  I just wouldn't want races coming to me.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Now back to Hwy 11.
> 
> That's a State Hwy and any improvements will be funded by the GA DOT.
> 
> And there will be NO cost to the City of Social Circle because....... the downtown area is a historic district and there's no room for "Right of Way" acquisitions inside the district.



Well this, at least, is music to my ears.   ;-) 
Thanks, Doc.


----------



## Backlasher82

Doc_5729 said:


> You missed my analogy, which was a response to Ernie's suggestion about moving the track somewhere else.
> 
> As seen, it's easy to make those suggestions and if you had read mine, you would have seen where I said;
> 
> I live here too, actually closer than Ernie. 1.5 miles as the crow flies. I DO have a vested interest here.
> 
> So because I support this project my voice shouldn't count huh?



Sorry, but if you were trying to draw an analogy between folks driving an extra 30 miles to an existing dragstrip in Eatonton and Ernie selling his home and moving so that a new dragstrip could open up, you failed miserably. Not even close.

And I don't recall saying your voice didn't count, do you mind pointing that out for me?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Wonder if there's going to be flea-market-type events, and other things some of us would rather not have next door.  Swap meets, stuff like that.  Usually goes on at fairgrounds and race tracks.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Wonder if there's going to be flea-market-type events, and other things some of us would rather not have next door.  Swap meets, stuff like that.  Usually goes on at fairgrounds and race tracks.



I want to ask a question if you don't mind. You say you visit this area a good bit, but have you actually been in the area of the proposed site?

The reason I ask is because Flea Markets already exist in the area just down the road at the Oasis. Take a ride out there sometime.

Right across the road from the old abandoned Cowboy's Restaurant buildings.

Man, it's a shame seeing that just sitting there rotting away. Just think, at one time folks were lined up just waiting to get a seat.

Glory Days.


----------



## rjcruiser

Doc_5729 said:


> I want to ask a question if you don't mind. You say you visit this area a good bit, but have you actually been in the area of the proposed site?
> 
> The reason I ask is because Flea Markets already exist in the area just down the road at the Oasis. Take a ride out there sometime.
> 
> Right across the road from the old abandoned Cowboy's Restaurant buildings.
> 
> Man, it's a shame seeing that just sitting there rotting away. Just think, at one time folks were lined up just waiting to get a seat.
> 
> Glory Days.



Never got a chance to eat there.  

Talking about Glory Days...I took my first deer on property where the Solo Plant is now.  Took my second deer on that same property the following year.

Now...it is just a big plant.  

What a waste  Now I have to actually pay to hunt somewhere and I have to drive further than before.  Amazing how progress gets in the way of our personal lives.

Problem is, when people remember the "glory days" they only remember the good parts and not the bad.  

I wonder how much tax revenue that Solo plant has given the town of SC?  Wonder how many people have jobs there?  Wonder how many of the wage dollars have been recycled into that community?

Hmmm...and to think, I just wanted to keep my hunting spot.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> I want to ask a question if you don't mind. You say you visit this area a good bit, but have you actually been in the area of the proposed site?
> 
> The reason I ask is because Flea Markets already exist in the area just down the road at the Oasis. Take a ride out there sometime.
> 
> Right across the road from the old abandoned Cowboy's Restaurant buildings.
> 
> Man, it's a shame seeing that just sitting there rotting away. Just think, at one time folks were lined up just waiting to get a seat.
> 
> Glory Days.



Doc, nah, I don't know my way around too much on the 278 side, if that's where it is.  Hwy 11 is about as east as I've ever gotten on my own.  When I come back "home", I'm making the rounds of relatives' houses in Social Circle, Covington, Conyers, Loganville, and Snellville.  We usually eat at the Blue Willow and shop at the gift-y places in downtown Social Circle.  It's always been that way for me.  

I tried to google the flea market locations but needed more specific search terms.  Can you help me out?  I've never come across any flea markets on the western side of this area.

Man, I was sick at losing Cowboys.  It was one of my favorite restaurants, but we didn't often go there because it was a bit of a drive from exit 98.  Anytime I went, it was night, and someone else was driving.  My family often went to the rodeos, though, and they loved it.  Then one night, we drove out there and it was gone.  Broke our hearts. I always wondered what happened.  I read recently that noise complaints shut it down.  Is that true?  On my list of loud, obnoxious events, a rodeo wouldn't even have occured to me.  But I was just visiting there and don't know what it was like for people close by.

Still, even if the rodeo shut down, why did the restaurant?  It was fantastic.

So I take it that you're cool with flea markets/swap meets at the drag site?


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Still, even if the rodeo shut down, why did the restaurant?  It was fantastic.



Hmmmm...maybe people who came for the rodeo ate at the restaurant

Maybe with the rodeo gone, not enough people came out there

Just a thought.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> Hmmmm...maybe people who came for the rodeo ate at the restaurant
> 
> Maybe with the rodeo gone, not enough people came out there
> 
> Just a thought.



Maybe so.  I was never there during a rodeo event, and it was still always busy whenever we went.  The food was the best, whether it was steak, fried oysters, you name it.  I never had oysters that good north of the Florida panhandle.  

Atmosphere was great, as was the live entertainment.  Store was nice, too.   I miss it.


----------



## DawgFan

*Just a fact*

"Clack said the complex would be open 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday, Tuesday and Thursday; 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Wednesday; 10 a.m. to 11 p.m. Friday and Saturday; and noon to 6 p.m. Sunday, to avoid church traffic and interrupting services."

Copied and pasted from The Walton Tribune Jan. 27, 2010


----------



## rjcruiser

DawgFan said:


> "Clack said the complex would be open 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday, Tuesday and Thursday; 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Wednesday; 10 a.m. to 11 p.m. Friday and Saturday; and noon to 6 p.m. Sunday, to avoid church traffic and interrupting services."
> 
> Copied and pasted from The Walton Tribune Jan. 27, 2010



Interesting article.

thought this quote would help others as well as the majority seem to cite noise as the principle issue



			
				Walton Tribune said:
			
		

> Clack said the class of cars that would race at the complex’s drag strip would produce around 90 decibels at the property line and was confident with buffers and sound barriers the project could meet any noise regulations.



http://waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=2303dd3b94c56821


----------



## erniesp

Duramax said:


> If they get the ok to build the dragstrip and it is built.  I would support it 100%! I would also be one of the ones with a loud car drag racing at this strip.  If you don't want to hear it go inside.
> 
> I bet alot of you go and watch NASCAR, but you never compalin about how loud that is now do you? Lets see here 2 cars running side by side for a few hours 10 seconds at a time or 43 cars running  together at the same time for a few hrs? That's a no  brainer to me?
> 
> I currently live roughly ten miles form AMS in Hampton, GA and I can hear the cars very well...do I complain no. Hammer down boys!
> 
> So how can a community claim 127db, when there have been no cars racing there to actually prove such a point?



This has got to be the most ignorant post in this thread. You have no clue.


----------



## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> This has got to be the most ignorant post in this thread. You have no clue.



Cmon ernie...it was a great post

Now...you don't want to be a name caller like all us evil supporters...


----------



## erniesp

Some of you I can debate with, but when he is just.... nevermind. Ya'll go ahead with this thread. I have said my peace. What i say on here isn't going to change what they do. Or how much Clack tries to pay them....


----------



## Backlasher82

Duramax said:


> I bet alot of you go and watch NASCAR, but you never compalin about how loud that is now do you? Lets see here 2 cars running side by side for a few hours 10 seconds at a time or 43 cars running  together at the same time for a few hrs? That's a no  brainer to me?



I'll admit it's been a few years since I went to a drag race but it's hard to believe things have changed that much.

So what you're saying is the 2 cars racing at that time are the only ones running? And that they quietly push the cars to the line, fire 'em up, stomp the gas for 10 seconds then it's all over until the next 2 cars get pushed up to the line?

Seems like I remember a whole bunch of cars in the pits being revved to the moon all day long, burnouts to warm the tires, etc.

Your description sure doesn't sound like any drag race I've ever been to or even heard about.


----------



## buckmanmike

I keep hearing from the people that race that its all about the competition. Then why don't ya'll put mufflers on your drag cars so people 4-5 miles away can't hear your noise. Everyones muffled so equal competition. Time for drag racing and all racing to catch up with today. Racers will spend thousands of dollars to lower their times by a hundreth of second but don't give consideration to the people that live around a track.
  If a track will pay for all road improvements for access, security, clean up and keep noise pollution in check I'm all for it. Racing is a great family experience,but I am tired about hearing how good this is going to be for the local economy when there have been no credible surveys taken to be able to make a decision on such claims.
  As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want to do on your property as long as it doesn't effect the use/enjoyment of my property.


----------



## insanehunter

i have mufflers on my drag car when i run a car with out mufflers i cant even here my car running! i have had drag cars with out them and my neighbors complained about it but no one has a problem with it now! i am all for mufflers i dont want to make people mad i just want a good safe place to race and eatonton is a gardrail track that isnt safe!


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Doc, nah, I don't know my way around too much on the 278 side, if that's where it is.  Hwy 11 is about as east as I've ever gotten on my own.  When I come back "home", I'm making the rounds of relatives' houses in Social Circle, Covington, Conyers, Loganville, and Snellville.  We usually eat at the Blue Willow and shop at the gift-y places in downtown Social Circle.  It's always been that way for me.
> 
> I tried to google the flea market locations but needed more specific search terms.  Can you help me out?  I've never come across any flea markets on the western side of this area.
> 
> Man, I was sick at losing Cowboys.  It was one of my favorite restaurants, but we didn't often go there because it was a bit of a drive from exit 98.  Anytime I went, it was night, and someone else was driving.  My family often went to the rodeos, though, and they loved it.  Then one night, we drove out there and it was gone.  Broke our hearts. I always wondered what happened.  I read recently that noise complaints shut it down.  Is that true?  On my list of loud, obnoxious events, a rodeo wouldn't even have occured to me.  But I was just visiting there and don't know what it was like for people close by.
> 
> Still, even if the rodeo shut down, why did the restaurant?  It was fantastic.
> 
> So I take it that you're cool with flea markets/swap meets at the drag site?



Cowboy's was just a hop skip and jump from Exit 98. Eight minutes or so taking your time. And those rodeos did get a little rowdy sometimes.

The Bruce's operated that place with no problems. After they sold out and leased the buildings the County shut them down because of fire protection when some bars in other jurisdictions had problems. (remember the news reports?)

The Flea Market is right across from the restaurant so you'll have no trouble finding it. Never stopped in there and didn't pay a lot of attention to the name. Flea Markets aren't my cup of tea so to speak.

As far as what they do at Clack's place, I don't reckon that'll be any worse than those yard sales over in Surrey Chase. More power to them.


----------



## Doc_5729

rjcruiser said:


> I wonder how much tax revenue that Solo plant has given the town of SC?  Wonder how many people have jobs there?  Wonder how many of the wage dollars have been recycled into that community?



The Solo building is a warehouse. It covers roughly a little over 35 acres. We worked on a lady's car that worked as a job recruiter for Solo and she said they employed 125 people there.

Not sure on demographics though, we never discussed that.

Tax Revenue is $0 for something like 10 years. Social Circle gave away the farm lock stock and barrel just to get the facility.

Solo wanted to build that warehouse in Conyers behind their existing manufacturing plant on land owned by the Talmage family. 

But Herman's son and daughter had a huge falling out over the price and Solo took them to court. Then the son threatened to kill the sister in front of a Judge in Conyers and all sorts of stuff went on. 

Herman's brother was involved some which of way and it was a mess. A real Family Feud right there in the court room. 

The son wound up spending a week in the State pen in Jackson just to show him what prison was like. The only reason he didn't do serious time is because of who he was and knew. Politics you know.

Solo finally told them to go jump and just built in SC.



General Mills is building a 45 acre warehouse close to Solo on a 230 acre tract.

Pretty much the same deal as far as taxes go. It will create around 175 jobs when completed.

Construction is pretty much 24 hours per day and most of the construction workers are from out of State. Laborers are brought in from Atlanta.

Now both of those companies asked for and received Tax relief to locate there. And we're talking MILLIONS of revenue annually.

Where's the out rage for that? Where's those Surrey Chase citizens now? Especially when their tax dollars paid for infrastructure improvements for billion dollar corporations....

Clack isn't asking for anything but a RE-zoning. No tax relief at all.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Cowboy's was just a hop skip and jump from Exit 98. Eight minutes or so taking your time. And those rodeos did get a little rowdy sometimes.-w



There were two ways to get there, by I-20 or a back way.  Seems like it always took 15 mins. or more, either way.  It takes about 8 minutes just to get to downtown SC; we usually went there because it was much closer than Cowboys.  Maybe it just seemed longer to Cowboys because we were hungry on the way.  ;-)    

I read a racer's post about Cowboys, saying it was noise that shut the place down.  He was comparing our complaints to the ones that supposedly did Cowboys in, and he was resentful.  That's why I asked about it.  I wasn't around for news reports about any of it.  



> The Flea Market is right across from the restaurant so you'll have no trouble finding it. Never stopped in there and didn't pay a lot of attention to the name. Flea Markets aren't my cup of tea so to speak.



I don't have a clue where it is.  I never drove there, and whoever drove me at any given time invariably got us lost on the way home.  What street is it?  I would like to take a look on mapquest's aerial view.  Flea Markets for sure aren't my cup of tea, either.  I'm not real excited about 2-day events every month that close by.



> As far as what they do at Clack's place, I don't reckon that'll be any worse than those yard sales over in Surrey Chase. More power to them.



Doc, you are cracking me up with the Surrey Chase stuff.  Are you just trying to get my goat?  LOL

Just as AA has hardly ever seen a wreck at Surrey Chase, I have never, ever seen a yard sale there in all my years.  I know there must be some now and then; most neighborhoods have them.  I never thought about it until you mentioned it.  Honestly, I have never happened upon one there myself.  So yeah, I think you and I both know it'll be a bit worse than those yard sales in Surrey Chase.  ;-)


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc, I am enjoying your background on local issues and events.  Your posts are very interesting.  I mean that sincerely and w/o sarcasm.

One day, will you tell us the history of the planned development of Clack's enterprise?  Meanwhile, may I ask when you first learned he was going to develop it?  Will you move from your land once all this begins?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

insanehunter said:


> i have mufflers on my drag car when i run a car with out mufflers i cant even here my car running! i have had drag cars with out them and my neighbors complained about it but no one has a problem with it now! i am all for mufflers i dont want to make people mad i just want a good safe place to race and eatonton is a gardrail track that isnt safe!



IH, what is planned at Clack's track that will make it better?  Besides it being a new facility, what all will make you want to race there?

I really do wish it was going to be built somewhere else where it wouldn't make folks mad.  It's not your fault for showing up to race at a track.  I'd really enjoy this place, I think, if it just wasn't around already existing homes.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

buckmanmike said:


> If a track will pay for all road improvements for access, security, clean up and keep noise pollution in check I'm all for it. Racing is a great family experience,but I am tired about hearing how good this is going to be for the local economy when there have been no credible surveys taken to be able to make a decision on such claims.
> As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want to do on your property as long as it doesn't effect the use/enjoyment of my property.



I'm pretty much with you on all this.  

But what further ticks me off is that we're only recently hearing about the track, when Donnie set all this in motion several years ago.  What we still haven't heard about is the development plans of the landowners that pitched in with him from the beginning.  It won't just be Donnie's parcel that will be razed for construction, I can pretty much bet you.  I believe the impact will be seen, felt, and heard from 278 straight to 11.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I read a racer's post about Cowboys, saying it was noise that shut the place down.  He was comparing our complaints to the ones that supposedly did Cowboys in, and he was resentful.  That's why I asked about it.  I wasn't around for news reports about any of it.



I'm not sure about any noise complaints, but the county used the Life Safety code and fire protection to eventually shut it down.

A friend was head of security when it all went down.

$150k for a sprinkler system, not including the cost of several miles of new water line, was a little much for a building your leasing and the Bruce's weren't interested in footing the bill. 



> I don't have a clue where it is.  I never drove there, and whoever drove me at any given time invariably got us lost on the way home.  What street is it?  I would like to take a look on mapquest's aerial view.  Flea Markets for sure aren't my cup of tea, either.  I'm not real excited about 2-day events every month that close by.



The Flea Market is directly across from Cowboy's. There's a few sheds in the field, must be 40 feet wide or so and maybe 300 - 400 feet long. You can't miss it if you ride down there.



> Doc, you are cracking me up with the Surrey Chase stuff.  Are you just trying to get my goat?  LOL



I'm glad you're laughing because I am too. I honestly believe you like in Surrey Chase. No offense and I ain't calling you out, but I find it kind of odd you have such concerns over this living in Alabama and your a racing fan against a racing venue.



> Just as AA has hardly ever seen a wreck at Surrey Chase, I have never, ever seen a yard sale there in all my years.  I know there must be some now and then; most neighborhoods have them.  I never thought about it until you mentioned it.  Honestly, I have never happened upon one there myself.  So yeah, I think you and I both know it'll be a bit worse than those yard sales in Surrey Chase.  ;-)



And yes, there are yard sales over in Surrey Chase. 

I saw an ad on craigslist or somewhere on a piece of furniture a while back I was interested in. The owner was having a huge yard sale, heck I think they were selling everything they had. But any way, it wasn't what it was made out to be so I passed.

Must have been neighborhood yard sale day that day because we stopped at several on the way out.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Doc, you are cracking me up with the Surrey Chase stuff.  Are you just trying to get my goat?  LOL
> 
> Just as AA has hardly ever seen a wreck at Surrey Chase, I have never, ever seen a yard sale there in all my years.  I know there must be some now and then; most neighborhoods have them.  I never thought about it until you mentioned it.  Honestly, I have never happened upon one there myself.  So yeah, I think you and I both know it'll be a bit worse than those yard sales in Surrey Chase.  ;-)



ARF...you crack me up.  You talk about all this info about the area that you know about, yet don't have a clue about garage sales in Surrey Chase  Either you really do live in Birmingham, or you live in Surrey Chase/River Cove and are just out to sink the track.

They have a neighborhood yard sale at least once a year.  My wife loves to go to garage sales and we hit it up every year.  Then, there are always the one offs that happen throughout the summer months.

Funny...how you joined this board about the time this thread got started...and 99% of your posts are in this thread



Doc_5729 said:


> I'm glad you're laughing because I am too. I honestly believe you live in Surrey Chase. No offense and I ain't calling you out, but I find it kind of odd you have such concerns over this living in Alabama and your a racing fan against a racing venue.



You and I are on the same page with this one.

It is a conspiracy I tell you.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> I'm not sure about any noise complaints, but the county used the Life Safety code and fire protection to eventually shut it down.
> A friend was head of security when it all went down.
> $150k for a sprinkler system, not including the cost of several miles of new water line, was a little much for a building your leasing and the Bruce's weren't interested in footing the bill.
> 
> The Flea Market is directly across from Cowboy's. There's a few sheds in the field, must be 40 feet wide or so and maybe 300 - 400 feet long. You can't miss it if you ride down there.



I think the racer was blowing smoke.  He was mad at us fuddyduddies and decided we were to blame for ruining Cowboy's, too.  Then he posted it as fact.  I'm glad to know the true details because I always wondered what happened.  I hope the Bruces try again somewhere (though not adjacent to the track).  I loved that place.

I did finally find a map of the place.  It's a little further than you thought & a little closer than I thought.  Also realized why we always got lost taking the back way home.  There's pretty much NOT a back way home!  My bro-in-law and his shortcuts... sheesh.

Found the flea market, too, though the aerial photo was snapped when no people were there.  Even so, it really doesn't merit the argument that Clack might as well host his 2-day events because there are already swap meets/flea markets nearby.  Sounds as if there's just the one, and it's not that close.  And I didn't see a campground inviting the vendors and buyers to spend the night during the weekend, as there will be available at Clack's track.  Probably most of those folks are good, fine people, but it's a fact that there's always a certain element.  I'd fear for my property or worse if I lived as close to that as some of the 278 people do.  I don't like it even where my family is (families are?).



> And yes, there are yard sales over in Surrey Chase.  [...]Must have been neighborhood yard sale day that day because we stopped at several on the way out.



It very well could have been Social Circle's annual, city-wide yard sale day.  I didn't know they had those, either.  I just found a reference to it a couple days ago.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

LOL, rj just backed me up on the yard sale thing.  Thanks, bud.  We were typing at the same time.

I never noticed that my initials are ARF.  Dang.  



> I'm glad you're laughing because I am too. I honestly believe you like in Surrey Chase. No offense and I ain't calling you out, but I find it kind of odd you have such concerns over this living in Alabama and your a racing fan against a racing venue.



I'm glad to know you really are being good-natured about Surrey Chase.  After the last barb, I thought, awww, he is just ribbing me.   ;-)     I take no offense at your suspicion that I'm not from out-of-state and really live in Surrey Chase.  Don't call me out on it, though, because not only would you be wrong, you'd be calling me a liar.  I may be wrong sometimes, but I'm not dishonest.  Maybe we'll meet sometime before this is all over.  I wouldn't mind saying my name on here, because I have nothing to lose by it.  But then my words would reflect on my family, and they didn't sign up to run their yap on a message board.

Being a racing fan is what called me into this.  My dad was shaking with rage when he told me about this in December.  I rolled my eyes and calmed him down and said this all was ridiculous.  No one would try to put a track by all these houses, I said.  It's absurd.  I didn't take it seriously until some of my old racer friends emailed me, asking me to support the new motorsports park.  As if it had already happened!  

We all frequented Road Atlanta when I was a teen, and now I have the Barber park and Talladega to visit.  Yeah, I love racing.  But I don't want a track right by my family's homes.  I watch, but my old friends actually race.  None of them chose to live anywhere near a track, I notice.  So when some of them wrote me about this, I about fell out.  They mostly live in North Georgia now and didn't know I had ties to this area.  I wrote them back, explained the situation, and asked them to withdraw their support.   

I didn't find out the worst of it until after I started posting on this thread.  Ha, I apologized for my first post because I misread a map and believed the race development would go right up to Hwy 11.  Some continued to argue with me that 11 would not be affected in the least.  Yet some of these good folks knew darn well that 11 will be affected, and that some of the property there will be developed in relation to the track's construction. Penland was one of the first to sign on with Clack, back when it seemed like they and their other partners were implying this would be a multi-use business park.  I do feel there's some dishonesty in this situation, but it for darn sure isn't coming from me.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> Either you really do live in Birmingham, or you live in Surrey Chase/River Cove and are just out to sink the track.



RJ, I really do live in Birmingham, really do have family in these neighborhoods, and really would love to sink the track.

Have I been too subtle?


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Penland was one of the first to sign on with Clack, back when it seemed like they and their other partners were implying this would be a multi-use business park.  I do feel there's some dishonesty in this situation, but it for darn sure isn't coming from me.



No...no...Clack isn't wanting a multi-use business park.  That is just across the interstate already on Hwy 278.  Oh...and if you are worried about Hwy 11, you should've been against Georgia Perimeter coming in.  You should see what was planned for the "Hub" intersection and area.

There's a reason that land was selling for $80k for 1/4 acre.

The only reason that you and your family haven't noticed anything yet is because the real-estate market tanked and the current economy ain't so great for manufacturing biz.

You should really do a little research on Stanton Springs.  Then you'd realize why the counties don't want to mess up any potential deals they have with this thing.  Oh...and the noise, traffic and pollution from an 1/8 track...that will pale in comparison to 1,800 acre mixed use site.

www.stantonsprings.com

enjoy


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> No...no...Clack isn't wanting a multi-use business park.



Exactly, rj.  It's my belief that he never intended a mixed-use business park.  But that sure is what it looked like he was implying when he filed forms about that property in 2006.  

Who knew besides his partners that a drag strip was really what was planned?  And how long have they known it?  

Even Donnie's name was kept on the low-down for most of this.

I think he and all the landowners knew the resistance he would face.  If they didn't think any homeowners would be adversely affected, I don't think they would have anticipated a fight.  And if they didn't anticipate a fight, I think they'd all have been more forthright and open about these plans that have been going on for over four years. Instead, it appears to me that he waited until the last important neighbor was safely annexed before filing forms for a track in the past couple months.  I don't think anyone in Social Circle -- other than its brand-new citizens and maybe the council -- had any idea what was going on until December.

I had no idea how intricate this scheme was until last week.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Exactly, rj.  It's my belief that he never intended a mixed-use business park.  But that sure is what it looked like he was implying when he filed forms about that property in 2006.
> 
> Who knew besides his partners that a drag strip was really what was planned?  And how long have they known it?
> 
> Even Donnie's name was kept on the low-down for most of this.
> 
> I think he and all the landowners knew the resistance he would face.  If they didn't think any homeowners would be adversely affected, I don't think they would have anticipated a fight.  And if they didn't anticipate a fight, I think they'd all have been more forthright and open about these plans that have been going on for over four years. Instead, it appears to me that he waited until the last important neighbor was safely annexed before filing forms for a track in the past couple months.  I don't think anyone in Social Circle -- other than its brand-new citizens and maybe the council -- had any idea what was going on until December.
> 
> I had no idea how intricate this scheme was until last week.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong.





I don't understand how you think it is a scheme.  Like Doc posted above...if you think this is a scheme...you should look into the business dealings that SC has done in the past.

You seem to enjoy your ignorance on this one...so that you can continue to oppose the project.  You talk of sand drags and mud bogs and access roads that are all hidden under the table.  All these conspiracies that are "going" to happen once Clack pays off the council and gets this thing approved.

You bring up swap meets as a problem...only to find that there's already one in the area.  You bring up traffic as a problem...only to find that the state & county roads have been upgraded to handle additional traffic for other projects that have been approved (GPC and Stanton Springs).

Keep burrying your head further in the sand.  Maybe then you won't be able to hear the noise of I-20, the railroads going through town and this track.

Erniesp...I'm with you.  There are some reasonable folks on here with legitimate concerns...and then there are those that don't have a clue and refuse to have a clue.

Doc...thanks for all the info.  Amazing how small town politics work.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> I don't understand how you think it is a scheme.  Like Doc posted above...if you think this is a scheme...you should look into the business dealings that SC has done in the past.



I infer that you agree as to the facts but disagree with the word.

What good would it do me to look up SC's past business dealings, ones you apparently consider more deserving of the word "scheme" than what Clack has pulled?  Are you saying SC's leaders have been involved in "schemes"?  




> You seem to enjoy your ignorance on this one...so that you can continue to oppose the project.



That line doesn't even make sense to me.  I've been ignorant of what's going on, yeah, and I'm kicking my own tail over it.  I opposed the project before I found this out, and I still do for the same reasons.  This is just something more on which to base my belief that Clack is not concerned with the well-being of the city as he says he is.  I do not believe in the slightest that he has any regard for the city.  From what I've read, I believe he has contempt for Social Circle -- although that impression may be compounded by the behavior of some of his supporters



> You talk of sand drags and mud bogs and access roads that are all hidden under the table.  All these conspiracies that are "going" to happen once Clack pays off the council and gets this thing approved.



Buddy, you had darn well better re-read my words before you put words of your own in my mouth.  I never said a thing was hidden under the table.  Don't you dare say that I accused either Clack or the council or anyone of anything illegal.  Don't you DARE.



> You bring up swap meets as a problem...only to find that there's already one in the area.



I don't at all like the idea of swap meets or flea markets or the sort on Clack's property.  I gave my reasons, which are valid.  I don't feel the one over in Morgan County is comparable, or close by, or presents any problem for me or mine.



> You bring up traffic as a problem...only to find that the state & county roads have been upgraded to handle additional traffic for other projects that have been approved (GPC and Stanton Springs).



I've since learned it's a bit more complicated than Doc suggested.



> Keep burrying your head further in the sand.  Maybe then you won't be able to hear the noise of I-20, the railroads going through town and this track.



I don't hear the noise of I-20, but then again, that would be nothing like the sound of race engines.  So far as the railroad:  No one living by the railroad bought their house before the rails were put in.  See the difference?

Everything I've said, you have jumped on, and even claimed I said things that I didn't.  But about the background I posted, you haven't said a thing aside from saying you wouldn't consider it a scheme.  

That interests me.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I'm glad to know you really are being good-natured about Surrey Chase.  After the last barb, I thought, awww, he is just ribbing me.   ;-)     I take no offense at your suspicion that I'm not from out-of-state and really live in Surrey Chase.  Don't call me out on it, though, because not only would you be wrong, you'd be calling me a liar.  I may be wrong sometimes, but I'm not dishonest.  Maybe we'll meet sometime before this is all over.  I wouldn't mind saying my name on here, because I have nothing to lose by it.  But then my words would reflect on my family, and they didn't sign up to run their yap on a message board.



I think you misunderstood what I was a saying bud. I'd never call you a liar, but the point was meant as  a lill fun. Good nature ribbing as you first thought.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> What good would it do me to look up SC's past business dealings, ones you apparently consider more deserving of the word "scheme" than what Clack has pulled?  Are you saying SC's leaders have been involved in "schemes"?



I've known Clack for many a year and he doesn't scheme anything. He may have a plan when he buy's a piece of property, then again, he may not. Then again, sometimes plans change.

As with one property that was purchased for a shopping center. That didn't work out so he built conditioned space mini warehouse units instead.

I know many folks who have bought property without a clue as to what they were going to do with it when they did. But they eventually figured something out in the end.



> I don't at all like the idea of swap meets or flea markets or the sort on Clack's property.



Have you seen the development plans for this property yet? I didn't see any Flea Markets or room for Flea Markets anywhere......

As far as swap meets, what the problem with those? I've been to many Fly-In's (aviation) with swap meets going on and never had or seen a problem with them. Folks making a little money buying and selling stuff. I think it's called Capitalism...



> I've since learned it's a bit more complicated than Doc suggested.



Which part ? The relocation of the Hwy 11 bypass? Or something else? And can you cite your sources? 

Was the information from an individual or a goobermint employee?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> I think you misunderstood what I was a saying bud. I'd never call you a liar, but the point was meant as  a lill fun. Good nature ribbing as you first thought.



Ah.  Good to know.


----------



## Doc_5729

rjcruiser said:


> Erniesp...I'm with you.  There are some reasonable folks on here with legitimate concerns...and then there are those that don't have a clue and refuse to have a clue.



I agree with that RJ. And Ernie for what it's worth bud, remember, we can agree to disagree and still be friends.



> Doc...thanks for all the info.  Amazing how small town politics work.



No problem bud. Small town politics, corruption at it's finest.


Maybe we can meet one day and I'll enlighten you with a story about a project that got turned down a few years ago on the opposite end of the county on I-20. There's no telling how many MILLIONS we lost because of it.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Have you seen the development plans for this property yet? I didn't see any Flea Markets or room for Flea Markets anywhere......



I didn't say it was going to happen.  I said I wondered if it would.  All I've seen of the property plan is the basic sketch on Donnie's site. 

 As for there being room for one thing or another, I wonder about that factor with a lot of the things Donnie's considering.   Maybe he's worked something out with some of the landowners he got on board with him in 2006.

I do think this is interesting, though:

_http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Good-...rag-Strip-Form-Group-to-Fight-Opposition.html

Written by Brad54 
Jan 20 2010
Holy Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, I need to read the newspaper more! Donnie Clack, the guy who is trying to get that deal started, is the owner of Lanier National Speedway in Braselton--the facility I rent for my NE Georgia Swap Meet every month. 

I just called him--he's in a meeting now, but said to call him back this evening and he'll fill me in. 

I run a business and rent his facility. I bring people into Braselton that use the gas stations, the McDonalds and Cracker Barrel at the I-85 exit, and the restaurants, gas stations and ATM machines the other direction in Oakwood. I boost other businesses by renting additional port-o-johns, hiring a security guard to stay overnight at my 2-day shows, and buy advertising in the 5 county and city newspapers. I think I might actually have something worth while to say regarding this drag strip and how it can benefit the city and county in ways they probably don't think about. 

Looks like I'll be heading to Social Circle for the meeting.

-Brad_


----------



## Doc_5729

> I run a business and rent his facility. I bring people into Braselton that use the gas stations, the McDonalds and Cracker Barrel at the I-85 exit, and the restaurants, gas stations and ATM machines the other direction in Oakwood. I boost other businesses by renting additional port-o-johns, hiring a security guard to stay overnight at my 2-day shows, and buy advertising in the 5 county and city newspapers.



Wow, a true capitalist I'd say. Making money as well as boosting the local economies. Nothing wrong with making money.

How much is unknown, but every little bit helps.

Which made me think of something else...........

About 4 or 5 times a year, the Square of Covington is completely shut down. Blocked off in all directions for an entire day for the old classics car shows.

They block it again a few times a year for parades. And during those parades there will be vendors everywhere selling something. Peddling their goods or services.

No one in Covington seems to mind and folks come from everywhere to browse around and those folks spend money.

Now one would think that shutting down the entire downtown district would draw much opposition from the merchants there, but they support it.

Now ARF has me thinking that maybe me and RJ should get together and put a stop to all that non-sense. Shutting down and entire city and making us take a detour should be against the law. Not to mention the folks making money doing it. 

It's a crime I'd say. Lock'em up and throw away the keys!!!!


















Have I made my point yet?


----------



## Doc_5729

Now if'n you'll excuse me, I'm gunna go do something constructive.

You know, make some money so I can pay more taxes.


btw, here's the plans for the track

http://citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com/


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Now ARF has me thinking that maybe me and RJ should get together and put a stop to all that non-sense. Shutting down and entire city and making us take a detour should be against the law. Not to mention the folks making money doing it.
> 
> It's a crime I'd say. Lock'em up and throw away the keys!!!!



Are you and RJ a tag team?

You Covington folk can do as you see fit:  Keep it or fight it.

Or are you a recent Social Circle citizen?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

You asked what I'd learned about the road situation.  I have zero expertise, so I'll just paste what was sent to me by a poster.  I don't know him any more than I know you, so I'm not going to argue who's more right than the other.  As I said, I now believe it is more complicated than previously presented.  

You, RJ, and I seem to have run off all the other posters, so I don't expect any constructive debate.  The lurkers can read and decide for themselves:

_"Just to give you a little back information for future reference. Hwy 278 and Hwy 11 are state highways which fall under the jurisdiction of the Georgia Department of Transportation for mainentance and ownership purposes. That, however, does not mean Social Circle tax dollars can't/won't be used to make necessary improvements to either Hwy for those portions of the Hwy which transverse the City limits. Typically the city or county (whoever has jursidiction in the area identified for an improvement) is responsible for the design of said improvement (traffic light, extra lane, etc.) and once the design is approved by GDOT the jurisdiction is responsible for acquiring the necessary right of way to construct the improvement, usually through transportation improvement program funds raised by the local jurisdiction.

Funding has to be set aside to construct the improvement by GDOT and is done so through a process where all state projects are evaluated and if your project rates high enough it gets placed on a list of improvements and is subject to change at any given moment. This is where it pays off to have a really good state representative to lobby the GDOT to keep the projects in their areas high on the 'honey do list.'

Usually when a transportation project is identified it takes 7 to 10 years to build because of all the steps it has to move through and by that time the approved design may very well be under-designed. This is the reason the exit/entrance ramps to Hwy 278 are so vast, to anticipate the need for additional lanes during peak traffic times once businesses and residence begin moving to Stanton Springs."_

Stanton Springs seems to push some people's buttons.  It's mentioned here because, for better or worse, that seems to have been the purpose for construction. I'm not interested in debating it.  Start your own thread about Stanton Springs, if you like.


----------



## AQHARoper

hevishot said:


> a drag strip full of rednecks is going to BOOST property value?....not a chance.  Make it drop like a rock.  Only a "few" in this world would like hearing that horrible racket from their house and having that crowd in their town.



Rednecks huh? Funny I have been Drag Racing for more than 25 years and I don't see that many "rednecks" at the strip. 

Oh the uninformed!! You probably plan your weekends around a NASCAR race.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Taking another look at the site map, I found something I don't understand.
In the lower right corner, there is a legend box with a shape in it that I guess refers to a specific land parcel.  It says, "120.0+/- acres applied for GC conditional use rezoning."
What does this mean (generally, and specific to the track)?  
I can't figure out the location on the map that this legend refers to.  Where is it?  

http://citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com/


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> You asked what I'd learned about the road situation.  I have zero expertise, so I'll just paste what was sent to me by a poster.  I don't know him any more than I know you, so I'm not going to argue who's more right than the other.  As I said, I now believe it is more complicated than previously presented.
> 
> You, RJ, and I seem to have run off all the other posters, so I don't expect any constructive debate.  The lurkers can read and decide for themselves:
> 
> _"Just to give you a little back information for future reference. Hwy 278 and Hwy 11 are state highways which fall under the jurisdiction of the Georgia Department of Transportation for mainentance and ownership purposes. That, however, does not mean Social Circle tax dollars can't/won't be used to make necessary improvements to either Hwy for those portions of the Hwy which transverse the City limits. Typically the city or county (whoever has jursidiction in the area identified for an improvement) is responsible for the design of said improvement (traffic light, extra lane, etc.) and once the design is approved by GDOT the jurisdiction is responsible for acquiring the necessary right of way to construct the improvement, usually through transportation improvement program funds raised by the local jurisdiction.
> 
> Funding has to be set aside to construct the improvement by GDOT and is done so through a process where all state projects are evaluated and if your project rates high enough it gets placed on a list of improvements and is subject to change at any given moment. This is where it pays off to have a really good state representative to lobby the GDOT to keep the projects in their areas high on the 'honey do list.'
> 
> Usually when a transportation project is identified it takes 7 to 10 years to build because of all the steps it has to move through and by that time the approved design may very well be under-designed. This is the reason the exit/entrance ramps to Hwy 278 are so vast, to anticipate the need for additional lanes during peak traffic times once businesses and residence begin moving to Stanton Springs."_
> 
> Stanton Springs seems to push some people's buttons.  It's mentioned here because, for better or worse, that seems to have been the purpose for construction. I'm not interested in debating it.  Start your own thread about Stanton Springs, if you like.



 I don't think they could handle the heat in the kitchen or the beating a dead horse. To be honest I'm getting tired of it my self.

In regards to this posters comments, in a round about way that's pretty much what I said with all the "details"



> once the design is approved by GDOT the jurisdiction is responsible for acquiring the necessary right of way to construct the improvement, usually through transportation improvement program funds raised by the local jurisdiction.



Those funds usually come from the DOT along with some trickle down Federal money as well. It's very rare that locals spend any locally generated funds on these projects.



> This is where it pays off to have a really good state representative to lobby the GDOT to keep the projects in their areas high on the 'honey do list.'



Exactly....



> Usually when a transportation project is identified it takes 7 to 10 years to build because of all the steps it has to move through



Projects now and for the past 5 years, typically take 9-14 years for funding. The GA DOT has been under a lot of stress with funds for the past 5 years or so. They (we) are virtually broke now.

And because of that, most of the road projects currently being completed are with Federal stimulus money. 

One such project that has been on the books is Hwy 142 in Covington. It died dead in it's tracks even after work had begun because of lack of funds, but Federal Funding revived it and it begins this month. It's a $12-14 million, 2 year project. And even with Federal money, only a portion will be completed.


----------



## Doc_5729

I'm going to be as adamant and serious as I can here bud, with no disrespect what so ever. Honest straight forward answers...



AnotherRacingFan said:


> Are you and RJ a tag team?



No, I've never met RJ, but wouldn't mind shaking his hand one day and having a glass of sweet tea. Same to you, an open invitation, just let me know when.



> You Covington folk can do as you see fit:  Keep it or fight it.



Even though I support the development, what's more important to me is a private citizens right to do as he see's fit with his property and private property rights.

I've seen more and more of my freedoms and liberties lost in my lifetime than you can imagine.

In Newton County if I want to build anything, doesn't matter if it's a shed, a house, a workshop or what, I must go and ASK FOR PERMISSION through an application process at MY EXPENSE. 

For a simple shed to park my lawn mowers or a tractor under, I must submit a full set of building plans alone with an architectural rendering of what I plan to build. For a freaking shed mind you.

This application can be denied for almost any reason, which results in additional expense. The set backs have become so burdensome, some folks can't even build a back yard shed anymore.

Then there's impact fees. Now what impact is my shed gunna have on this county?

And to top that off, beginning either this year or next, we're going to be charged a "Stormwater Run Off Fee", commonly know as a rain tax. It's assessed at $0.08 per square foot of impervious surface on my land.

The City of Covington already charges these fees and btw, it's mandated by the EPD that ALL GA counties collect these taxes by and no later than 2012.

We're losing more and more freedoms bud with no end in sight. I hope you see my point.




> Or are you a recent Social Circle citizen



I lived in this area (with a SC address) for quite a number of years. However I sold that place and did move away for a number of years.

I ran across a deal 5-6 years ago or so, jumped on it and moved back. My plans are/were to stay here for a long long time.

But then again, plans are subject to change if someones willing to sign a check. Everything has a price and money can wipe out sentimental value in a heartbeat.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> In regards to this posters comments, in a round about way that's pretty much what I said with all the "details"



I didn't say I'd learned you were wrong, Doc.  I said I had learned that it's a bit more complicated.

You had said:


> Now back to Hwy 11.
> 
> That's a State Hwy and any improvements will be funded by the GA DOT.



Aside from your specific info about downtown SC, I thought that was the definitive answer about highway 11, with no further conditions.  This guy added background and details that show the issue to be a bit more complicated than the answer above.  It adds to your answer; it doesn't necessarily negate it.

Taken with your rebuttal, I have a better picture now.  My thanks to you both.

I admit I half-way expected an argument over what this guy said.  It would have been lost on me.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> No, I've never met RJ, but wouldn't mind shaking his hand one day and having a glass of sweet tea. Same to you, an open invitation, just let me know when.



One of these days, I'd be pleased to take you up on it.



> Even though I support the development, what's more important to me is a private citizens right to do as he see's fit with his property and private property rights.



I agree up to a point.  Like an earlier post said, I agree with your right to do whatever you want on your land, so long as it doesn't harm me or encroach on my right to enjoy my own land.



> In Newton County if I want to build anything, doesn't matter if it's a shed, a house, a workshop or what, I must go and ASK FOR PERMISSION through an application process at MY EXPENSE.
> 
> For a simple shed to park my lawn mowers or a tractor under, I must submit a full set of building plans alone with an architectural rendering of what I plan to build. For a freaking shed mind you.
> 
> This application can be denied for almost any reason, which results in additional expense. The set backs have become so burdensome, some folks can't even build a back yard shed anymore.
> 
> Then there's impact fees. Now what impact is my shed gunna have on this county?



It's the same where I live.  I agree:  It's aggravating as heck.  We get regulated to death.  The intent is to protect everybody but sometimes the application of that intent seems to go past the line of reason.  Seems sometimes to protect everyone but the property owner, who gets red-taped to death.  Some places, you can't paint your door but a certain color.  Others you can't even put up a birdhouse.  You saw that story about the war hero who's getting sued by his neighborhood over his flagpole?  I can totally sympathize with your frustration.



> And to top that off, beginning either this year or next, we're going to be charged a "Stormwater Run Off Fee", commonly know as a rain tax. It's assessed at $0.08 per square foot of impervious surface on my land.
> 
> The City of Covington already charges these fees and btw, it's mandated by the EPD that ALL GA counties collect these taxes by and no later than 2012.



Sheesh.  I never heard of a rain tax.  Wow.   I'd have to get someone to explain the reasoning on that.  Impervious surface -- like rock?  That's rugged terrain up there near the site, so I imagine that won't be cheap.  



> We're losing more and more freedoms bud with no end in sight. I hope you see my point.



Well, I do and I don't.  That is, I see your point but I'm not sure you see mine.  Again, I don't mind whatever someone does with their property so long as it doesn't damage the value or enjoyment of mine.  That's where we differ on the drag race issue.  I, and the other homeowners, believe we'll suffer from the plans for that property.  

Again, if it were built somewhere that didn't impact my family, I'd be pretty excited about that complex.  It's a good idea, but it's the wrong location.



> But then again, plans are subject to change if someones willing to sign a check. Everything has a price and money can wipe out sentimental value in a heartbeat.



Doc.  That's about the saddest thing I ever heard.    :-(


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Taking another look at the site map, I found something I don't understand.
> In the lower right corner, there is a legend box with a shape in it that I guess refers to a specific land parcel.  It says, "120.0+/- acres applied for GC conditional use rezoning."
> What does this mean (generally, and specific to the track)?
> I can't figure out the location on the map that this legend refers to.  Where is it?
> 
> http://citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com/



That is an architectural rendering what was submitted to the City of SC and is reference to what Clack is asking of a rezoning or "General Commercial Conditional Use" on.  

It's limited to 120 +/- acres. He may need say 5-10 acres or 5-10 acres less. But that would be the limits to the development. The +/- is pretty common in plan submitting.

If you exit I-20 on Hwy 278 and turn left across the bridge, you'll travel about 3/4 of a mile or so and Willow Springs Church Road will angle into 278 on the left. Just beyond that, Willow Springs Church Road has a short right angle tie in on the left as well.

The angular section (which is a safety hazard,) of that road will be moved back, widened and improved. The entrance will be used for Willow Springs Church Road and  to the complex. (Those improvement's will be paid for by Clack.)

Try this link, http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

or use Google maps and search

14501 Hwy 278, Social Circle Ga 30025

When you zoom in tight you'll see the actual property lines.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Taking another look at the site map, I found something I don't understand.
> In the lower right corner, there is a legend box with a shape in it that I guess refers to a specific land parcel.  It says, "120.0+/- acres applied for GC conditional use rezoning."
> What does this mean (generally, and specific to the track)?
> I can't figure out the location on the map that this legend refers to.  Where is it?
> 
> http://citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com/



bump

Doesn't refer to the actual site, does it?  I'm looking for a lot that's the same shape as the illustration...


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Sheesh.  I never heard of a rain tax.  Wow.   I'd have to get someone to explain the reasoning on that.  Impervious surface -- like rock?  That's rugged terrain up there near the site, so I imagine that won't be cheap.



Impervious surface is classified as anything man made that sheds water. The house, driveway, sidewalks, out buildings such as sheds, work shops, barns, etc, etc.

IE: My home is around 2300 sq. ft. with a 240 sq ft covered porch on front and a 576 sq. ft. patio on the back for a total of 3116 sq. ft. That's $249.28 per year in storm water tax on the house alone. 

That doesn't include the sidewalks - front and rear, the driveway, my storage buildings and that lawn mower shed I built that I didn't ask permission to build or my mailbox.

By my rough calculations, my stormwater tax bill will be close to $650.00 when everything is added up.

They claim the funds will be used to "protect" our streams and rivers. It's more like bureaucrats justifying their agency and jobs to me.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> bump
> 
> Doesn't refer to the actual site, does it?  I'm looking for a lot that's the same shape as the illustration...



Yup, the actual "lot" is within the boundaries of his property. Which isn't being subdivided.


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## AnotherRacingFan

Doc, I bumped my question before I saw you had answered it a few posts back.  The info is very helpful; thank you.
But I'm still confused!  The site map on the track's web site is pulled in so  tight, I can't figure out the dimensions within Donnie's actual parcel.  And neither the track site nor the lot shown on Google maps is the same shape as the legend illustration.  ?
The site map doesn't show where Willow Springs or the cut-across road fit in.  I can't figure it out.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Doc, I bumped my question before I saw you had answered it a few posts back.  The info is very helpful; thank you.
> But I'm still confused!  The site map on the track's web site is pulled in so  tight, I can't figure out the dimensions within Donnie's actual parcel.  And neither the track site nor the lot shown on Google maps is the same shape as the legend illustration.  ?
> The site map doesn't show where Willow Springs or the cut-across road fit in.  I can't figure it out.



Hover over the Site map and click, it'll load as a pdf.

Then you can increase the size as large as you wish. The "cut-across" will be on the upper right side.


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## AnotherRacingFan

Thanks, that worked.       Now I see better.  When you zoom in on the google map, the red pointer looks like the address is the small lot north of the site.  I used the cemetary road for perspective.

I still don't understand the shaded shape on the legend, though.  {:-\


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## AnotherRacingFan

Going back a ways...

Doc wrote:


> I've known Clack for many a year and he doesn't scheme anything. He may have a plan when he buy's a piece of property, then again, he may not. Then again, sometimes plans change.
> 
> As with one property that was purchased for a shopping center. That didn't work out so he built conditioned space mini warehouse units instead.
> 
> I know many folks who have bought property without a clue as to what they were going to do with it when they did. But they eventually figured something out in the end.



Serious question (not meant as a "gotcha"):  Is that what happened this time?  The property wasn't bought with a drag strip in mind, and the neighboring landowners didn't sign on with that intent?  They really did intend to put in a mixed-use business complex?  And if it changed from that to a drag strip, none of the partners objected, but were fine with it?  When would the change of heart have happened?


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Going back a ways...
> 
> Doc wrote:
> 
> 
> Serious question (not meant as a "gotcha"):  Is that what happened this time?  The property wasn't bought with a drag strip in mind, and the neighboring landowners didn't sign on with that intent?  They really did intend to put in a mixed-use business complex?  And if it changed from that to a drag strip, none of the partners objected, but were fine with it?  When would the change of heart have happened?



I think the development you're speaking of is the 1200 acres that involved John Penland, Clack and several other land owners.

Newton County sued over the annexation and development and won in court with Rep Douglas Holt (D - socialist) leading the way. They don't want any competition in the area with the county owned properties and the Stanton Springs park. 

Holt also later introduced legislation that was passed that prevents land from being annexed unless certain conditions are met with a ton of hoops to jump through.

It's almost impossible to annex across county lines now.

More infringements upon landowners rights.

But all of that fell apart several years ago...... and with the economy the way it is now, I doubt very seriously it could/would happen now.

Dude, I'm telling ya, this is small town politics at it's finest. Corruption from hades, but they always cover their behinds and go about it legally.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

I'm not quite sure if that's the same deal or not.  Your response is informative, but I'm not sure it answers my questions.

The deal I mean is the 2006 one where Clack (cloaked as Little River Ventures), Penland, Bettis, Thompson (and Burt, aka MAB Holding Co.) -- can't remember if there were others -- signed on together for annexation & rezoning w/ application for mixed-use business.  

After legal hassles, these pursued actions individually or in smaller groups, right?  My question is, was a drag strip in mind at the beginning?  If not, when did it become the goal?  I don't hear any complaints from any of those families -- the ones closest in proximity & the ones that would suffer most from noise -- so I assume they support the drag strip now, even if the original venture was different (though I'm not sure it was).

My assumption is that once the track complex goes in, at least some of these landowners will develop track-related businesses: maybe a hotel, restaurant, gas station/truck stop, or sell more lots to Clack if he needs room for expansion.  Is this why they joined Clack from the beginning -- to facilitate development on their own land, via annexation & rezoning?

Donnie seemed to try to keep his personal name from surfacing with this until recently.  Why is that?


----------



## Doc_5729

I'm going respond to these, and then that's going to be about it for this thread. I'm tired of beating this dead horse. And everyone on this board is tired of this debate.



AnotherRacingFan said:


> I'm not quite sure if that's the same deal or not.  Your response is informative, but I'm not sure it answers my questions.



Everything I've posted in regards to these properties and the Hwy information is accurate as to what has occurred here in the past few years.

Thanks for the compliment, and no offense, but I'm being to wonder if anyone can answer your questions.

They seem to be repeating, as if you're looking to "entrap" someone. If that's the case you need to be talking to Clack instead.



> The deal I mean is the 2006 one where Clack (cloaked as Little River Ventures), Penland, Bettis, Thompson (and Burt, aka MAB Holding Co.) -- can't remember if there were others -- signed on together for annexation & rezoning w/ application for mixed-use business.



That is the 1200 acres that was annexed...... It had business/warehouse, light industrial, residential and recreational all in one development.  I believe it was modeled after the Windward development and several others around John's Creek north of Duluth.




> After legal hassles, these pursued actions individually or in smaller groups, right?  My question is, was a drag strip in mind at the beginning?  If not, when did it become the goal?  I don't hear any complaints from any of those families -- the ones closest in proximity & the ones that would suffer most from noise -- so I assume they support the drag strip now, even if the original venture was different (though I'm not sure it was).



The legal "hassles" were the lawsuit filed by Newton County, but that was against the City of Social Circle with the land owners (Little River Ventures) caught in the middle.

IMHO this project came about because Clack has a piece of land without a use after Newton County and Doug Holt screwed them over and found something to build on it.



> My assumption is that once the track complex goes in, at least some of these landowners will develop track-related businesses: maybe a hotel, restaurant, gas station/truck stop, or sell more lots to Clack if he needs room for expansion.  Is this why they joined Clack from the beginning -- to facilitate development on their own land, via annexation & rezoning?



I'm sure that after being overlooked when the multi-county jurisdiction was purchasing land, some of these surrounding land owners are looking for the golden opportunity to sell at a HIGH profit like their former neighbors and move on. 

That's what this entire country has been built on. It's called Capitalism.

But what their intentions are is unknown to me so me speculating wouldn't be a fair assessment of their intentions.

We could go ask them, but they might tell us where to go and one or two of them might even shoot you.



> Donnie seemed to try to keep his personal name from surfacing with this until recently.  Why is that?



I don't think he was intentionally hiding from anyone if that's what you're implying. 

As most businesses operate, he was operating under his Corp name and when it was necessary, he stepped forward.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

http://www.covnews.com/news/article/11017/
Letters to the editor - Too Close to Home


POSTED  Feb. 12, 2010 12:01 a.m. 

Dear Editor: My family is very opposed to the drag strip that is to be built in Social Circle because the location surrounds many residents. I have read several comments in newspapers from people who live close to existing drag strips.  People state they live three, four, or five miles away.  Mind you, they say miles.  Not once have I read, heard, or know of anyone whose kitchen table is within 100 feet of the proposed strip.  Yes, I said feet.  Ten or more of my neighbors live within 100 yards.  One hundred, more or less, of my neighbors live within one-half mile.  The developer states that operating hours of his venue will be 75 hours per week.  What kind of ready made 100 foot natural buffer can he plant to help us from the noise, as well as fumes and dust that are dangerous to our health?  Can you buy trees that large, and will they survive?
 I am baffled how our county officials, the people we elected into office, ignore our pleas and say they do not want to get involved.  How can they treat our citizens this way?
I ask this for my own infant grandchildren, and my neighbors’ children and grandchildren that we see playing outside when we drive down the road.  Anyone who lives this close to a drag strip, please contact me and give me advice on how we can protect ourselves and still allow our children to play outside.  So whoever out there that lives within 100 feet of this sort of nightmare, I’ll bring coffee and doughnuts if you let me and my husband visit your home during race times so we can get an understanding of what we may have to live with.  God willing we won’t have to, because we can’t just pack up, leave and give our home away.  Could you?

Jesse and Theresa Camp
Social Circle


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## bluejonesbrothers

erniesp said:


> It is not on their off time. It is on the tax payer dime when they are with the buses. Protecting the youth of Social Circle. I know just about all of the police officers and I have no problem with them making money on the side. I just don't like the fact that they will be in our tax payed cars and using tax paid fuel.
> 
> You use Road Atlanta that has nationally sanctioned events. Doubt any national events will be coming to a 1/8 mile strip.
> 
> I'll tell you the tax revenue is minimal to what everyone thinks.




I work in public service,  and using a car is minimal in cost.  Actually it would be more than paid for with the taxes and permits that would be paid by the complex.


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## AnotherRacingFan

bluejonesbrothers said:


> I work in public service,  and using a car is minimal in cost.  Actually it would be more than paid for with the taxes and permits that would be paid by the complex.



Doubt it.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

> _http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/newt...442.html?storySection=comments#commentSection
> 
> Posted by: Anonymous Location: Social Circle on Dec 15, 2009 at 06:49 PM
> 
> To Sarah have you actually been to a racetrack if not then you don't know what you're talking about I live not far from this property and I would like to have something to do. One of the people on here made a comment that they have nothing to do here and I would have tio agree with them. Also thereare already drunk drivers ont he roads as is its not like people go to these events just to drink they go there to have fun watching racing and also if he is saying these things I don't think he's just saying them to get approval I think he's very sincere about all of it. And I think *he's also wanting to put in an outlet mall too *would you like to go shopping and not have to go to conyers, or covington to do your shopping? Think about it its not just for guys its for the WHOLE FAMILY women included and please people stop talking about the noise I'm sure he'll do everything to make it so you won't be able to hear it I've been to these events and i can't hear the cars until i right in the stands _



Outlet mall?  Where's that going?  Why is it we hear from other people or places about what's going into/near the complex without it being mentioned in the proposal?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Here's another one:



> Posted by: Anonymous Location: Social Circle on Dec 15, 2009 at 06:33 PM
> 
> I think that for the people who opposing it are thinking of other drag strips, they have in mind Eatonton and the other unsafe backwoods dragstrips but that isn't it at all those are not nice ones where as Reynolds, commerce, lanier and atlanta are the good, nice, clean, well-run ones where they don't sell alcohol but yes people do bring their own but you can't tell them not to. Also dragstrips don't kill people its people acting stupid that kill people. So i think i've made my point in this If not well I say I'm all for it. *PLus he wants to try and get a outlet mall there* that means more business and more jobs for people duh I could use another job i've got a family to raise and feed. Also one more thing they have medical services at these events whereas if you're streetracing there aren't any immediately. I'd rather keep my kids off the roads racing wouldn't you.



Thought this was interesting, too:

_"...good, nice, clean, well-run ones where they don't sell alcohol but yes people do bring their own but you can't tell them not to."_

This from a supporter.  Hmm.


----------



## Horns

Another RacingFan, you need to give it a rest. All of your posts say the same thing. The easiest way to stop the development on this property (drag strip) is for you to buy the property. He is a business man and would probably sell for the right price. And yes, I am a resident of Social Circle.


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## AnotherRacingFan

Thanks, but no thanks.

Horns, no one is forcing you to read my posts.  Scroll right on by, sir.


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## DAWG1419

I say let him build it.But if he gets 10 noise complains then he must shut it down. I bet he wouldn't build it you think.I live in Social Circle also and I could care less what he builds their. Hopefully my neighbors and those that will be living next to the development will get what they want.


----------



## The Bell Man

Horns said:


> Another RacingFan, you need to give it a rest. All of your posts say the same thing. The easiest way to stop the development on this property (drag strip) is for you to buy the property. He is a business man and would probably sell for the right price. And yes, I am a resident of Social Circle.





DAWG1419 said:


> I say let him build it.But if he gets 10 noise complains then he must shut it down. I bet he wouldn't build it you think.I live in Social Circle also and I could care less what he builds their. Hopefully my neighbors and those that will be living next to the development will get what they want.



This is interesting- 2 residents of Social Circle who don't sound overly concerned about the drag strip, and a man from Alabama who acts like it will ruin his life.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

I've stated several times my ties to Social Circle.  My family has lived there for many years now.  I'm sure there are many folks in Social Circle who aren't overly concerned about it, and they are entitled to their opinions.  But the ones that this affects the most deserve to be heard, too.  

There are people who stand to lose a lot if the track comes in, and those who stand to lose a lot if it doesn't.

In my opinion, we need to consider most the ones who invested in Social Circle by making it their home, and who do not deserve to have their quality of life damaged by a venture that was proposed long afterward.

Clack didn't have to buy this particular parcel of land for a venture that isn't suited to the residential areas surrounding it.  His choice, his risk.  The neighborhood residents didn't choose to live by a race track when they made this area their home.  I feel it is unfair to force on them the noise, traffic, and general nuisance that this kind of project can bring.  

I do not believe the town itself will profit enough from tax revenue to justify betraying its long-time residents (or losing the goodwill of the folks on the 278 side).  And by those, I'm not referring to the half-dozen landowners who stand to profit from selling out their other neighbors.

As for me, you need not make any assumptions whatsoever.


----------



## DAWG1419

I'm not really concerned because the if the county lets him build it there is nothing I will be able to do. I live about 6-8 miles from the property and really feel sorry for the people close to it. But really what am I or my wife going to do to change it.I own my own landscape company and would be out raged if I had bought property to put my company on and be told no because of some of the neighbors don't want it.Me and Horns have deer hunted the property which the strip is supposed to be built on so we are familar with the land. I KNOW the noise CAN"T be dampend  with anything planted.This property has been sitting there vacant for I know of 7-8 yrs. and don't see anything coming in the near future. Will this drag strip effect me dirrectly NO.Will the strip improve my property value NO. If built will my taxes go down LOL A BIG NO. Will Social Circle gain great economical spending in it's little town MAYBE. . So I could care less.. But if they build it please go there and enjoy it. I proly will


----------



## Horns

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I've stated several times my ties to Social Circle.  My family has lived there for many years now.  I'm sure there are many folks in Social Circle who aren't overly concerned about it, and they are entitled to their opinions.  But the ones that this affects the most deserve to be heard, too.
> 
> There are people who stand to lose a lot if the track comes in, and those who stand to lose a lot if it doesn't.
> 
> In my opinion, we need to consider most the ones who invested in Social Circle by making it their home, and who do not deserve to have their quality of life damaged by a venture that was proposed long afterward.
> 
> Clack didn't have to buy this particular parcel of land for a venture that isn't suited to the residential areas surrounding it.  His choice, his risk.  The neighborhood residents didn't choose to live by a race track when they made this area their home.  I feel it is unfair to force on them the noise, traffic, and general nuisance that this kind of project can bring.
> 
> I do not believe the town itself will profit enough from tax revenue to justify betraying its long-time residents (or losing the goodwill of the folks on the 278 side).  And by those, I'm not referring to the half-dozen landowners who stand to profit from selling out their other neighbors.
> 
> As for me, you need not make any assumptions whatsoever.



As a 36 plus year resident of Social Circle, I have some roots planted here. I know that as a city grows, it ruffles feathers. Therefore, some will agree with new ventures and others will disagree. I do not live close to this property, so I do not really care if it is passed or denied. I just do not see how people can complain about noise and traffic when they live right beside I-20. As Dawg1419 said, I have hunted this area in the past and was amazed at how loud the current traffic is on I-20. If the proper noise buffers are utilized, I do not think the noise level will be a significant reason for denial. As far as traffic goes, the entrance will be approximately 1 mile from I-20. I don't see how this could be a major factor for denial as well.

Also, all the property owners close to Penland need not think that his property will be the same for years to come. He is a business man as well and likes money.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Yes, we know something is coming to Penland's land.  Not a thing we can do about it if it's compatible with zoning and with residential living in the neighborhoods nearby.  

A drag strip (with or without related business) is something else entirely.

Clack came after Social Circle after the county denied his plans, Dawg.  And the county residents over near 278 are messed up big time if the strip goes in.  Their quality of life will be ruined.  Over in Social Circle, by Penland's land, quality of life -- and home values -- will be much impaired.  

As the Thompson/Bettis/Penland tracts are developed, the strip noise will become louder and louder.  I've seen complaints about that near existing tracks; as time went by and the tree buffers came down, tract by tract, the noise got worse and worse. 

 As these landowners near Clack's strip originally were partners of a sort in the annex/zoning scheme, I think there's ample reason to believe that once the drag strip complex goes in, a lot of those trees are coming down.  And noise and traffic of an additional nature will be coming in.

Dawg, I don't know the full history of Clack's parcel.  But since 2006 at least, it's been vacant while he's been putting wheels in motion (with help from the neighboring landowners).  The county turned him down, so they seem to have gotten around that by slipping over into Social Circle one or two parcels at a time.  That takes a lot of time.

It could certainly be said that Clack is a shrewd businessman.  But I feel like these twisting approaches are downright sneaky.  And not saying from the beginning that Little River Ventures is himself -- well, that's perfectly legal.  But I again, I feel that he was trying to put something over on us.

I appreciate your post, Dawg.  Even if we don't agree 100%, you make good sense.  

Btw, Horns, I have people in River Cove and and Surrey Chase.  They don't hear the noise of I-20.  They wouldn't have moved there if they did.  But again, a drag strip is something else entirely, and it's more than the Social Circle residents who will be affected.  I think it's wrong to disregard the 278 folks by just slipping into Social Circle under the radar, which is what I feel they did.


----------



## Horns

I personally do not believe that someone can not hear the noise from the traffic on I-20 in either subdivision mentioned above. Let's spin it a different way: one would think that there are more trees between Surrey Chase and the proposed drag strip site than between I-20 and either subdivision mentioned above. You said that you can not hear the noise from I-20 at either subdivision. If this is the case, why should noise be a problem????


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Well, Horns, if you personally do not believe me on the one thing in this that is a concrete fact, then I don't think my arguments are going to sway you in any way.  I do invite you to drive into either one of these neighborhoods & see for yourself if you hear the traffic on I-20.  (We don't.)

As for why I fear that we would hear noise from the drag strip if we don't hear I-20, that's a fair question.  But as has been pointed out before, the engines on the cars moving steadily down I-20 are very different than the kind that are going to be warming up, revving up, & screeching down a drag strip.  

Would you agree that a NASCAR oval track is louder than I-20?  Well, a drag strip (even with sound barriers) is louder than a NASCAR oval track.  That's not even mentioning the different kinds of racing on the dirt track Clack has planned.  

Did you see the posts at the beginning of the thread about the motocross race a few weeks ago on the Penland property?  Well, that's about 2 miles from the deep parts of the River Cove development.  And I can tell you, the noise bothered the fool out of them that day.  Clack's strip is about 2 miles from Surrey Chase, and will have much louder activity.  It's going to be a heck of a problem.  

The folks near 278 are much closer and will have an even worse time of it.

As for the concerts planned, all I can go on is the amphitheater across town from me.  I'm glad I don't live over there, because you can hear it for miles around.  Not the good part, though, like hearing a concert for free.  Mostly it's just the bass that you hear, an irregular booming.  Not pleasant.


----------



## cwill

All i am hearing is noise,dust and fumes.I personally live less then 1 mile from atl motor speedway.I go there for some of the friday night drags.Even when i am home for the friday night drags.But even if i am at home Ican't even here them.Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- for that matter during the nascar weekends if i have the tv on i can't even hear them.People just want to complain and bash something they just don't beleave in.But this always has been a free country even when people have no idea what they are talking about.


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## Horns

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Well, Horns, if you personally do not believe me on the one thing in this that is a concrete fact, then I don't think my arguments are going to sway you in any way.  I do invite you to drive into either one of these neighborhoods & see for yourself if you hear the traffic on I-20.  (We don't.)
> 
> As for why I fear that we would hear noise from the drag strip if we don't hear I-20, that's a fair question.  But as has been pointed out before, the engines on the cars moving steadily down I-20 are very different than the kind that are going to be warming up, revving up, & screeching down a drag strip.
> 
> Would you agree that a NASCAR oval track is louder than I-20?  Well, a drag strip (even with sound barriers) is louder than a NASCAR oval track.  That's not even mentioning the different kinds of racing on the dirt track Clack has planned.
> 
> Did you see the posts at the beginning of the thread about the motocross race a few weeks ago on the Penland property?  Well, that's about 2 miles from the deep parts of the River Cove development.  And I can tell you, the noise bothered the fool out of them that day.  Clack's strip is about 2 miles from Surrey Chase, and will have much louder activity.  It's going to be a heck of a problem.
> 
> The folks near 278 are much closer and will have an even worse time of it.
> 
> As for the concerts planned, all I can go on is the amphitheater across town from me.  I'm glad I don't live over there, because you can hear it for miles around.  Not the good part, though, like hearing a concert for free.  Mostly it's just the bass that you hear, an irregular booming.  Not pleasant.



Is the first road on the left after you turn on River Cove Road not part of the subdivision? I do not know the name of this road in particular as I do not regularly travel it. In the past couple of years more houses have been built on this road. It is no more than 400 yards from I-20. A person would have to be deaf not to hear the tractor trailors running up and down the road. Therefore, I do not agree with the noise factor.

As for the question of a Nascar race being louder than I-20, I agree. These vehicles have no mufflers with 800 HP running in circles for approximately 4 hours continuously. A drag strip race is complete in less than 10 seconds. 10 seconds versus 4 hours? That is like comparing apples to oranges.

What about the CSX railroad in your family's back door? Do you protest everytime a train comes up and down the tracks? Is it not loud? Does your house not shake and rumble about?

As I said before, I have no dog in this fight. I have no allegiance with any party (for or against) this proposed project. I also think it does no good to beat a dead horse.


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## Backlasher82

Horns said:


> A drag strip race is complete in less than 10 seconds. 10 seconds versus 4 hours? That is like comparing apples to oranges.



You really should attend a drag race at least once in your life just to understand what you're talking about, here's a hint: the noise lasts significantly longer than 10 seconds. As a matter of fact, when it comes down to the length of time the race noise continues, that 4 hour long NASCAR race is going to be a WHOLE lot less time than the time drag cars spend racing, warming up, tuning, revving up, burnouts, etc. 

If you honestly think all is quiet at a drag race except for that 10 second run, you REALLY need to actually attend a race!


----------



## GATREE

build it and they will come


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Horns said:


> Is the first road on the left after you turn on River Cove Road not part of the subdivision? I do not know the name of this road in particular as I do not regularly travel it. In the past couple of years more houses have been built on this road. It is no more than 400 yards from I-20. A person would have to be deaf not to hear the tractor trailors running up and down the road. Therefore, I do not agree with the noise factor.



Well, I don't know about that road, I admit.  I only drive down it to get to my family's house.  From there we often take long walks around the neighborhood.  Never heard a sound from I-20.  So the argument doesn't hold that we moved there knowing we would be bothered by the highway noise.  I don't know about that one road, but I've never heard it in the River Cove area.  I guess our house is deep enough in the neighborhood so that we can't hear I-20.  (Yet they all sure could hear that motocross race at Penland's.)



> What about the CSX railroad in your family's back door? Do you protest everytime a train comes up and down the tracks? Is it not loud? Does your house not shake and rumble about?



The train's not an argument, either.  Nah, it doesn't shake our houses, but we do hear it.  Difference is, it was there before we were.  It was our choice to move where we sometimes hear a train rumble by in the far distance.

The train doesn't run continually for hours every day and night.



> As I said before, I have no dog in this fight. I have no allegiance with any party (for or against) this proposed project. I also think it does no good to beat a dead horse.



For having no dog in this fight, you sure seem to be fighting hard against the residents' interests, in favor of the drag strip.

I do have a dog in the fight, so I'm going to keep fighting.

As far as I know, this horse isn't dead yet.


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## erniesp

GATREE said:


> build it and they will come



You just stay up there where you belong....


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## insanehunter

i got a dog in it and i am still getting pettions signed for it i am not trying to make any one mad but it would be great to have somting to do in newton co


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## AnotherRacingFan

Well, if I didn't have folks living around there, I might not care so much about it.  I just hate that Clack is trying to put it where it is, with houses around it.  Seems like there must be more suitable land around there somewhere.

Like I said before, _if he put it somewhere else, _I'd be very happy to see it go up.  I'd go there a lot.  

*But I don't want it in my family's backyards. * And there are about 200 homeowners who probably feel the same way about this location.


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## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> And there are about 200 homeowners who probably feel the same way about this location.



Amazing how 200 people are trying to force a decision that will affect thousands.

The squeaky wheel gets all the grease.


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## insanehunter

i dont care where he put it you would still have people complain about it i go to eatonton alot and hwy 441 is 1/2 mile from the track and its not loud up there!


----------



## Horns

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Well, I don't know about that road, I admit.  I only drive down it to get to my family's house.  From there we often take long walks around the neighborhood.  Never heard a sound from I-20.  So the argument doesn't hold that we moved there knowing we would be bothered by the highway noise.  I don't know about that one road, but I've never heard it in the River Cove area.  I guess our house is deep enough in the neighborhood so that we can't hear I-20.  (Yet they all sure could hear that motocross race at Penland's.)
> 
> 
> 
> The train's not an argument, either.  Nah, it doesn't shake our houses, but we do hear it.  Difference is, it was there before we were.  It was our choice to move where we sometimes hear a train rumble by in the far distance.
> 
> The train doesn't run continually for hours every day and night.
> 
> 
> 
> For having no dog in this fight, you sure seem to be fighting hard against the residents' interests, in favor of the drag strip.
> 
> I do have a dog in the fight, so I'm going to keep fighting.
> 
> As far as I know, this horse isn't dead yet.



Noise is noise is noise. Whether it comes from a plane, tractor trailer, or drag car. One of your most reasons against this is noise.

How can you have a dog in this fight personally? Your family is different as they may be affected. You live in Alabama. 

You said you would go to it a lot if it were somewhere else. All this means is yeah I'm for it as long as I am not affected by it in any way. That is the old mentality of not in my backyard.

The beating the dead horse is what I used as an analogy of repeating yourself as against the strip. I am aware that it is not over. Clack has to bring it in front of a work session.

I am not trying to argue with you. It just seems to me that if someone disagrees with you in the slightest degree, you are offended. I do not have an opinion as I am not affected either way.


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## AnotherRacingFan

Horns said:


> You said you would go to it a lot if it were somewhere else. All this means is yeah I'm for it as long as I am not affected by it in any way. That is the old mentality of not in my backyard.



LOL, exactly!   That's exactly my point.

And that's pretty much _everybody's_ point.  The ones that are for it are mostly the ones that won't be affected adversely by it.  Not counting the half-dozen who will profit from it.


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## Horns

insanehunter is directly affected, and he is for it.  Why do you keep on talking about the people making a profit? I thought the whole world revolved around money. Some people say that they are not hung up on it, but everything in your life is directly related to money or lack of it.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Horns said:


> insanehunter is directly affected, and he is for it.  Why do you keep on talking about the people making a profit? I thought the whole world revolved around money. Some people say that they are not hung up on it, but everything in your life is directly related to money or lack of it.



Yes, well I did say _mostly_;  I didn't say _all_ of the people affected will be against it. 

I think it's sad to think everything revolves around money.  :-(     

But if you have to make it a money issue, rather than a quality of life issue, then there's the matter of investment.  Most of these people are totally invested in their homes.  Some of them wanted this to be the last place they ever live.  Now if they do want to move -- because some won't be able to stand it -- then they will find their investment has been blown.  House values are for sure not going to hold or increase when a drag strip is constructed nearby.  If they _can _sell, it will be at a loss.   In the current market, when buyers can buy for a song almost anywhere, most of them are sure not going to choose a house by a drag strip.

But I mean no offense, nor am I offended.


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## SpringfieldChampion

there used to be a drag strip in front of the sharp middle school!


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## Horns

I have spoken my peace on this subject.


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## GoldDot40

For what it's worth, "IF" the dragstrip gets built and opens....it won't last.....not in this economy. You can ask anyone affiliated with Atlanta Dragway. Their attendance numbers were WAY DOWN from last year. I deliver to EVERY restaurant at Banks Crossing (Commerce) that sells beer. The restaurant management will even tell you that their numbers are way down. Every time there was a 'big' event planned at the drag strip, the restaurants would double their orders....expecting to do double business. That's the way they've always done it in the past years. Last year was horrible. Even the Southern Nationals, Super Chevy, and Fun Ford Weekend didn't bring the business to the area that it has in the past.

My guess is......that unless Clack has a lot of money to pour (waste) into this thing to keep it operating, it'll be closed before it gets going. I don't think it'll survive this economy. Any business owner that owns multiple locations knows that each location will only survive under its own revenue. 

Same goes for any purposed Outlet Malls. Ride up to Tanger in Commerce and look at all the empty suites. It's just not a good time to open anything in lines of a racetrack OR shopping mall right now. If the ones that are already here are struggling, you know a brand new one is destine to fail.

......and another thing. The last place I lived in Commerce was just several hundred yards from the starting line of Atlanta Dragway. The noise isn't as bad as some of you people think it is. Yes, when the 'big boys' were in town....I usually got a rude awakening on the weekends they were here. The 'test-n-tune' weekly races? I barely even noticed.....


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## insanehunter

this drag strip will make it in this economy there are 100s of cars running at atlanta moter speedway friday night drags and 1000s in the stands every weekend and there will be no top fuel dragsters at this track !build it and we will come!


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## crossbreed

see the thing they are not looking at is it will get a lot of kids off the street racing scene. which there is a lot of. and I live 5mi from the eatonton track and it would be nice to have another place to go that is close. I say build it. if eatonton can make money any track can!


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## AnotherRacingFan

I just don't think those arguments are valid in the face of the opposition.  The surrounding homeowners have a lot to lose, and the "benefits" of a track between these neighborhoods on 278 and 11 don't carry enough weight by far.

The Eatonton track hasn't gotten kids off the street-racing scene?  There's a track that close to Social Circle already, yet still "there is a lot of" kids street-racing?  Doesn't sound very effective.

These homeowners should have to suffer so some of the race fans will have the convenience of ANOTHER track to go to near Eatonton?

Nope.  If Clack's track were going somewhere else, somewhere that wouldn't harm existing neighborhoods, I'd be all for it, too.  But not in this location.

As for any track being able to make money, that's not really true.  Tracks have been hurting pretty badly over the past year or so.  This really isn't the time for a risky venture.  If it fails, any accompanying new businesses will fail also.  You've seen areas with shuttered businesses, right?  Not really great for the surrounding neighborhoods.

But even if he does make a profit, not enough tax revenue is going to make its way into Social Circle for it to be worth the misery for long-time residents.


----------



## GoldDot40

crossbreed said:


> see the thing they are not looking at is it will get a lot of kids off the street racing scene. which there is a lot of. and I live 5mi from the eatonton track and it would be nice to have another place to go that is close. I say build it. if eatonton can make money any track can!



I lived in Commerce for 23 years.....I grew up there. Having a dragstrip in town will barely put a dent in illegal street racing. I know because I 'WAS' one of them. It wasn't uncommon for a small group to head down an old country road to settle a dispute of who had the faster car. We had about 3 different roads where there were 1/4 mile marks painted on the ground.

Sure a dragstrip would give some youngsters something to do.....but when it's over, I've seen a lot of kids 'go racing' because they just got done watching a night of it.


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## bluejonesbrothers

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Doubt it.



Man I hope you know how much of a moron you sound like.  It seems you have no concept of what your quaint little town is headed for financially.  Its in the HOLE!  Most stores are gone in downtown and the police and fire are under one chief to be able to financially afford it.  You have a sewer line put in two years ago the city is having to pay to be fixed now due not being inspected at the time of installation.  Yes you do have a few large commercially owned structures, but more is needed.  There's a term that I once heard that you seems to fit you: you are swallowing camels, but choking on gnats.  You arent worried about the land or environmental stuff, just what a sunday afternoon might be like.  You might as well give up your pity little fight.  We are coming to RACE!


----------



## erniesp

bluejonesbrothers said:


> Man I hope you know how much of a moron you sound like.  It seems you have no concept of what your quaint little town is headed for financially.  Its in the HOLE!  Most stores are gone in downtown and the police and fire are under one chief to be able to financially afford it.  You have a sewer line put in two years ago the city is having to pay to be fixed now due not being inspected at the time of installation.  Yes you do have a few large commercially owned structures, but more is needed.  There's a term that I once heard that you seems to fit you: you are swallowing camels, but choking on gnats.  You arent worried about the land or environmental stuff, just what a sunday afternoon might be like.  You might as well give up your pity little fight.  We are coming to RACE!



So we are in the HOLE.... Ha. Have you seen the budget. Social Circle is running in the black. One chief because we can't afford it, sounds like you ar misinformed. Since you say most stores are gone, tell me how many shops are actually empty. This isn't a pity little fight. DOubt you will race in Social Circle.


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## AnotherRacingFan

It's interesting to me that the kind of people who support the track in newspaper articles and message boards often resort to insults and name calling, and have nothing but disdain and sarcasm for the town of Social Circle.

Make of that what you will.  I know what I make of it.


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## AnotherRacingFan

> You arent worried about the land or environmental stuff



I am plenty worried.  Thanks for bringing it up.  You're right, that's also what we should be worried about.

I am extremely worried about the proposed waste processing center at the corner of the site.  

I'm plenty worried about the above-ground fuel tanks, but Clack says it will be within the law.  

I'm worried about the clear-cutting of land for the track and for the other businesses; a lot (eventually most?) of those trees are coming down when the buildings and parking lots go in.  But that is  never mentioned by the landowners or Clack when it's publicized that the site won't impact the surrounding areas.

As for the "quaint little town" -- which you call it sarcastically -- it's going to profit very little from tax revenue from the track.  

The damage wrought to this town by this proposal isn't worth the meager benefits it supposedly will bring in.


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## Horns

bluejonesbrothers said:


> Man I hope you know how much of a moron you sound like.  It seems you have no concept of what your quaint little town is headed for financially.  Its in the HOLE!  Most stores are gone in downtown and the police and fire are under one chief to be able to financially afford it.  You have a sewer line put in two years ago the city is having to pay to be fixed now due not being inspected at the time of installation.  Yes you do have a few large commercially owned structures, but more is needed.  There's a term that I once heard that you seems to fit you: you are swallowing camels, but choking on gnats.  You arent worried about the land or environmental stuff, just what a sunday afternoon might be like.  You might as well give up your pity little fight.  We are coming to RACE!



I said I was done with this post, but you do not know everything you think that you do. Yeah, a lot of the shops in Social Circle are closed. In the 36 plus years that I have been here, it has always been like that. The city has not mandated any salary decreases or days off. The city has not taken away any paid holidays. I remember Winder had a rough time with their budget and laid off. The little antique shops that everybody wants but never profits and eventually closes is what comes to mind. 
There is only one chief as you said, but there is a reason for that. We have a department of public safety. In this organization, there is one chief who is responsible for police and fire. 
I think I know about the sewer line you are speaking of. It did screw up at Christmas time and the road was torn up as it was repaired. I know for a fact that there was an inspector on site daily as it was installed. 
The large commercial buildings you speak of are in fact what we need. A municipality can make a lot more tax revenue off of a commercial building zoned industrial than homes. Some people on here want to think that the city gave the away the farm so to speak to lure these commercial buildings here. This is plain lunacy. They get a tax abatement program. Yeah, the city supplies water lines, sewer lift stations, and gas lines for them free. Hard to swallow I know, but the industry has to start paying the taxes on these buildings at a rate of 10% every year and increased by 10% every year until it is 100% taxed. This is normal. Check with any city and you will see. Do you think a company that has spent $50 to $70 million will just leave after that capital investment? I think not.


----------



## erniesp

Horns said:


> I said I was done with this post, but you do not know everything you think that you do. Yeah, a lot of the shops in Social Circle are closed. In the 36 plus years that I have been here, it has always been like that. The city has not mandated any salary decreases or days off. The city has not taken away any paid holidays. I remember Winder had a rough time with their budget and laid off. The little antique shops that everybody wants but never profits and eventually closes is what comes to mind.
> There is only one chief as you said, but there is a reason for that. We have a department of public safety. In this organization, there is one chief who is responsible for police and fire.
> I think I know about the sewer line you are speaking of. It did screw up at Christmas time and the road was torn up as it was repaired. I know for a fact that there was an inspector on site daily as it was installed.
> The large commercial buildings you speak of are in fact what we need. A municipality can make a lot more tax revenue off of a commercial building zoned industrial than homes. Some people on here want to think that the city gave the away the farm so to speak to lure these commercial buildings here. This is plain lunacy. They get a tax abatement program. Yeah, the city supplies water lines, sewer lift stations, and gas lines for them free. Hard to swallow I know, but the industry has to start paying the taxes on these buildings at a rate of 10% every year and increased by 10% every year until it is 100% taxed. This is normal. Check with any city and you will see. Do you think a company that has spent $50 to $70 million will just leave after that capital investment? I think not.



Good post Horns. I said I was done too, but when people spew stuff like he did I can't help myself. I think I remember in December Winder laying off like 20 people. So maybe Winder needs the track more than Social Circle does. He should call Clack and get him to move the venue to Winder so they can get out of their HOLE...


----------



## rjcruiser

Horns said:


> I said I was done with this post, but you do not know everything you think that you do.





erniesp said:


> Good post Horns. I said I was done too, but when people spew stuff like he did I can't help myself.



Well... I said I was done...and like a man of my word...I'm not going to say anything more.


just kidding Ernie & Horns.  Trying to bring a little fun to the fray...y'all keep at it.  I've enjoyed reading some of the stuff here over the past couple of days



btw...now that SC has a pet policy...at least the drag cars won't have to worry about hitting any stray dogs or cats


----------



## DAWG1419

bluejonesbrothers said:


> Man I hope you know how much of a moron you sound like.  It seems you have no concept of what your quaint little town is headed for financially.  Its in the HOLE!  Most stores are gone in downtown and the police and fire are under one chief to be able to financially afford it.  You have a sewer line put in two years ago the city is having to pay to be fixed now due not being inspected at the time of installation.  Yes you do have a few large commercially owned structures, but more is needed.  There's a term that I once heard that you seems to fit you: you are swallowing camels, but choking on gnats.  You arent worried about the land or environmental stuff, just what a sunday afternoon might be like.  You might as well give up your pity little fight.  We are coming to RACE!




BJB or anyone that supports the track.Just tell me the answer if you and three buddies roll into social circle and spend $40 on gas at the shell. Another $25 for beer (or COKE) and ice.Stop by checkers and spend another $20. That's a total of $85. How much of the $85 will the city see of that money.You know the revenue the city will get out of that??? That seems what everyone is talking about outside Social Circle the revenue the city will get.  Just curious


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## GATREE

build it and they will come with lots of money


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## erniesp

GATREE said:


> build it and they will come with lots of money



Like I said before..... Stay up there where you belong...


----------



## bluejonesbrothers

Just to set you straight I dont work for winder, and they actually have a better insurance rating than most in the surrounding area.  As far as having a track here I welcome it.  I live in up scale neighbor hood that is really close to a dirt track.  All we might here is the national anthem and some motor noise.  Racing is as american as apple pie. People have been racing since the dawn of time.  Everyone is scared of change, but if nothing would have ever been built due to opposition where would you work?  Where would you go for entertainment.  I dont think that the location of the track is going to affect too many houses as far as noise and traffic go.  Its a smaller venue!  Its not like they are going to hold the Fram nationals. But what I would like to hear is one person give me a hard number for negative impact.  All Ive heard is DRUGS, NOISE, and TRAFFIC.  Those of you in opposition want to ask how much $$$$, well tell me what is it going to cost?  I think you'll see the answer is 0!


----------



## GATREE

what you dont want to watch any good drag racing close to home


----------



## Backlasher82

bluejonesbrothers said:


> Just to set you straight I dont work for winder, and they actually have a better insurance rating than most in the surrounding area.  As far as having a track here I welcome it.  I live in up scale neighbor hood that is really close to a dirt track.  All we might here is the national anthem and some motor noise.  Racing is as american as apple pie. People have been racing since the dawn of time.  Everyone is scared of change, but if nothing would have ever been built due to opposition where would you work?  Where would you go for entertainment.  I dont think that the location of the track is going to affect too many houses as far as noise and traffic go.  Its a smaller venue!  Its not like they are going to hold the Fram nationals. But what I would like to hear is one person give me a hard number for negative impact.  All Ive heard is DRUGS, NOISE, and TRAFFIC.  Those of you in opposition want to ask how much $$$$, well tell me what is it going to cost?  I think you'll see the answer is 0!



Actually, for the people living in Social Circle the biggest negative impact would the huge loss in the value of their homes. While that may not be any concern for someone living 40 miles away in Winder, it's a very big concern for the people who will actually be affected by a dragstrip/motocross track/whatever Clack can think of venue operating virtually all day every day except for Sunday mornings and Sunday evenings to appease church folks.

At the point such a complex opened in Social Circle the residents could expect not only an instant huge devaluation of their homes but also a very serious problem finding anyone to buy at any price. Too bad for them but at least you wouldn't have to drive that extra 20 miles to the existing track in Eatonton so they should be happy.


----------



## bluejonesbrothers

Backlasher82 said:


> Actually, for the people living in Social Circle the biggest negative impact would the huge loss in the value of their homes. While that may not be any concern for someone living 40 miles away in Winder, it's a very big concern for the people who will actually be affected by a dragstrip/motocross track/whatever Clack can think of venue operating virtually all day every day except for Sunday mornings and Sunday evenings to appease church folks.
> 
> At the point such a complex opened in Social Circle the residents could expect not only an instant huge devaluation of their homes but also a very serious problem finding anyone to buy at any price. Too bad for them but at least you wouldn't have to drive that extra 20 miles to the existing track in Eatonton so they should be happy.



You speak of homes losing this great value.  Give me one case of such.  Plus the tract we are speaking of is right beside  the interstate, not in the center of town.  I wish it was coming to winder,  I'm not the one who said I would like it if it wasn't right beside my house.  I on the other hand wouldn't mind.  The tract is large and there isn't a house "right beside it!"  I will be surprised if it doesn't get built sooner or later.  But if it doesn't maybe he will look this way.  I could only hope. 

Well Im not going to argue any more just do my part in helping the park get opened!  Hope to see you there!


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

> Plus the tract we are speaking of is right beside  the interstate, not in the center of town... The tract is large and there isn't a house "right beside it!"



Go to the site on Google Maps.  Click on aerial view.  Zoom out & count the houses within two miles.  There are about 200 of them.

The closest ones are on 278.  On the highway 11 side, looks as if there is a large buffer of trees, although according to noise studies of similar sites, the houses are still close enough to be impacted by the noise.  Plus, that entire section is owned by Clack's development partners.  We can assume that's the site of the "outlet mall he's trying to bring in," as well as related businesses.  

If you really didn't know that there are neighborhoods right beside all this, then now you do.


----------



## Doc_5729

> Some people on here want to think that the city gave the away the farm so to speak to lure these commercial buildings here.



I made the comments concerning "giving away the farm" and I stand beside those. HOWEVER, I do agree that something drastic measures are NEEDED AND SHOULD be taken to attract buiness..

NOT picking apart your post, but here's why and my reasoning.


The large commercial buildings you speak of are in fact what we need.  A municipality can make a lot more tax revenue off of a commercial building zoned industrial than homes, so I agree 100%, We DON'T need more houses and subdivisions.

For every dollar generated in tax revenue from a private residence, it cost $1.45 to provide services and infracture to the residence. 

For every dollar generated in tax revenue from a commericial/business, it cost $0.68 to provide services and infracture to the business. That's a NET PROFIT of 32 cents and the very reason the tax base in any county should be 65-70% commercial and 35% or so residential.

Walton County is in a correction state now and close to achieving that but Newton is completely upside down and will take decades to correct due to the idiots in high places.



> They get a tax abatement program.  but the industry has to start paying the taxes on these buildings at a rate of 10% every year and increased by 10% every year until it is 100% taxed. This is normal.



The first 5-10 years is USUALLY tax free (sometimes there's an additional 10 years on inventory and equipment.) 

I don't have a problem with tax abatement, I have a problem with years of NO tax payments. You nor I got a 10 tax free period on our homes when we build or bought them. Nor did we get a progressive tax rate of annual increases of 10%

But even with that factored in, I say build it, at least the future generations will benefits IF it last that long.



> Check with any city and you will see. Do you think a company that has spent $50 to $70 million will just leave after that capital investment? I think not.



Think again. 

Maxell - Conyers Ga - $95 MILLION Investment- closed and Gone
Denon Corp - Madison Ga - $125 MILLION - closed and Gone
Wellington Mills and Sports - Madison Ga 
Lithonia Lighting - Conyers Ga - most operations relocated to Mexico, in the process of shutting down
Williams Bros - Covington Ga - Gone
J Williams - Covington Ga - Gone
Harland - Conyers Ga - gone
Stanley Proto - Covington Ga - Gone
Ace Hardware - SE Distribution center - Conyers Ga - Gone
John Deere - Conyers Ga - Gone

General Motors - Doraville - $400 MILLION Invested - Gone
General Motors - Lakewood - $225 Million invested - Gone
Ford Motor Company - Hapeville Ga - $375 Million Invested - Gone




> Yeah, the city supplies water lines, sewer lift stations, and gas lines for them free. Hard to swallow I know,



Mercedes Benz - SE Georgia - $275 million PLUS invested in STATE funds at taxpayer expense on infrastructure improvements and then they announced they would not build a plant here.

YUP, that's hard to swallow.


On another note concerning tax revenue..... The State is about to lay off and eliminate 5000 positions.

I talked with a friend Friday who works for Newton County. He said his department is slap BROKE with no money in the current budget and the County Administrators are asking for an additional 10-15% to be cut from this years budget, which was already cut 18% to the bear bones.

He said he bought legal pads and pens out of his pocket last week.

They are already working on next years budget which begins July 1st.

Looks like Newton County employees will be forced to take another 10-12% pay cut on top of the 10% they took last year, with additional furlough days. Even with those cuts, some will still lose their jobs and positions.

How many isn't known yet, but they are looking for at least ONE in every department.

My point is, as I said before, IF someone is willing to invest his money and build in this economy, BUILD IT.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I am plenty worried.  Thanks for bringing it up.  You're right, that's also what we should be worried about.
> 
> I am extremely worried about the proposed waste processing center at the corner of the site.



Those are called septic tanks for sewage from the restrooms and concession stands. There's one on EVERY HOUSE in your subdivision called Surrey Chase. Guess we should tear those homes down too.



> I'm plenty worried about the above-ground fuel tanks, but Clack says it will be within the law.



They're as safe or safer than the propane tanks in racks outside convenience stores.



> I'm worried about the clear-cutting of land for the track and for the other businesses; a lot (eventually most?) of those trees are coming down when the buildings and parking lots go in.  But that is  never mentioned by the landowners or Clack when it's publicized that the site won't impact the surrounding areas.



Again, all those streets in Surrey Chase at one time were forest land. There's MORE land in Surrey Chase without trees than there will be on this development.



> As for the "quaint little town" -- which you call it sarcastically -- it's going to profit very little from tax revenue from the track.
> 
> The damage wrought to this town by this proposal isn't worth the meager benefits it supposedly will bring in.



Can we just go ahead and drop the nuclear warhead now and get it over with.

Daggum dude, it ain't the end of the world. It's a drag strip for crying out loud.


And btw, YOU should have been with me Saturday. Dude it was awesome.

One bad lill Mustang, ready to roll. Pushing 950 PLUS HP on the juice. 

And you know what was so amazing?

You could stand beside it, in front of it or behind it, WITHOUT earplugs. It's set up to run on tracks like Clack is purposing.

It had 4 mufflers installed and was actually quieter than my 78 Chevy PU with the 350.


----------



## insanehunter

they are having one more meeting march 10th at 7pm at the old city hall building in social circle before it goes to the planning and zoning pleaes show up and show your support


----------



## andrew_dial

i gotta put my 2 cents in this...i see its calmed down but i cant help myself.  i skimmed through, didnt read every post but got the just of the argument.  i live in oxford off exit 93 so not too far from where this track is proposed to be.  ive been around racing my whole life....litterally took my first steps at a track.  the people that are opposed to this are way off base.  first of all the noise isnt going to be terrible.  its not like nascar where its 30 cars constantly running wide open for 4 hours.  its two cars periodically running for a few seconds at a time.  second point is the traffic.  its going to be an 1/8 mile, meaning its not going to be a big time track.  the first few weeks after it opens it will of course have a lot of hype but that will die off eventually and there will be the regular hundred or so cars that want to come run.  unless they have an amazing surface that just hooks like crazy and is clean and STAYS THAT WAY which is hard to find on smaller tracks, most people around here will be spending their saturdays at commerce.  back when the speed shop was open right down the road from SC my grandfather used to help manage the track and my dad was a saturday regular.  they are ray and mike dial.  some of the covington locals will probably know them.  that track never hurt anybody.  the only reason it was shut down is because they built neighborhoods around it and the new residents started complaining.  the only difference is that in this case the track will be coming in on top of existing residents.  i may be wrong but it was my understanding that it would be on the east side of 278 right off i20.  well if thats correct there really arent a whole lot of residents around that location.  
im not sure about the dirt tracks and all ive heard a lot of noise about if they would or wouldnt put in motocross stuff but that is a mute point compared to the main attraction of the drag strip.  it really wont be as big of an issue as some are making it out to be.  like i said...its not going to be something you can compare to commerce or adel or reynolds.  traffic would only back up first thing in the morning when racers are coming in and signing waivers and paying. throughout the day racers loose and go home at different times and most spectators are friends and family of racers so they would leave after whoever theyre with gets knocked out typically....so the evening traffic wouldnt be that bad.  
i just dont know what all the fuss is about.  let little ole social circle have a coming attraction besides the blue willow!! it could be a good change!


----------



## Backlasher82

andrew_dial said:


> that track never hurt anybody.  the only reason it was shut down is because they built neighborhoods around it and the new residents started complaining.  the only difference is that in this case the track will be coming in on top of existing residents.



People started moving in around an existing track and complained to the point that the track was shut down, yet you can't understand why people already living in SC would be opposed to a track coming in on top of them?


----------



## andrew_dial

i can understand where your concern is with the noise.  but have you ever been around a dragstrip? take commerce for instance....you can be out of 441 about 3/4 of a mile from it and unless the southern nationals are going on and top fuelers are running you would never know that track was there.  
i dont really understand the point of making the property values go down if thats what youre worried about.  increasing businesses in an area drives property UP!


----------



## Backlasher82

Yes, I've been around dragstrips. As a matter of fact I've been around most types of motorsport tracks at one time or another because I love racing. Even though I love racing, I can see how living next to a track would get old in a hurry. 

And I find it hard to believe that all the people on here trying to convince the Social Circle folks how much better their lives would be with a racetrack next door can't imagine how it would feel to be in that position.

I enjoy going to the track for the day, it's a blast. But as much as I enjoy visiting, I wouldn't want to live there.


----------



## erniesp

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdLffNBIFfo&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdLffNBIFfo&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>


----------



## GATREE

thats not too bad quit whining


----------



## Backlasher82

A few years back there were some friends of mine living in older neighborhoods that developers wanted the land so they could do something else with it and make money off the deal.

The homes in the neighborhoods were all in the $80-100K range in value, yes it was a few years back, but the developer offered them $250,000 each for their homes. It took a while because the folks with the $100K homes thought they should get more than the rest but finally realized they were still getting 2 1/2 times what their home was worth and the deal went through. 

Everybody was happy. 

The developer was able to finish his project and made money. The homeowners got 2 1/2 - 3 times what their homes were worth and bought nicer homes and still put money in the bank.

So, all of you folks that are convinced that this complex in Social Circle is going to be great for the town and property values will skyrocket, here is your chance to get rich and put your money where your mouth is!

Get down there and buy out all the homeowners in Social Circle. 3 times the appraised value, give or take a little, should get the job done.

The homeowners will be happy because they can move someplace nice and quiet, like SC is now.

 Clack will be happy because he can open his complex and make lots of money.   

You folks who think it would be great to live next to a racetrack/ concert venue/ whatever will be happy because it will be right in your own back yard.

It's a win/win/win!

I say go for it! Your dreams of living next to a racetrack can come true! Live the dream!

Don't let this opportunity pass you by!


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

erniesp said:


> <object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdLffNBIFfo&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdLffNBIFfo&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>



Ernie, thanks so much for posting this.  That's from a half-mile farther from a track than the neighborhoods I'm worried about, and much closer than some of the homes on 278.  

This noise would be INTOLERABLE.


----------



## The Bell Man

The link posted is a 2.25 mile road track in New Jersey where open wheel and arca cars run, not a local drag strip.
Here is their website with overview.   http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/overview.html





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----------



## AnotherRacingFan

The Bell Man said:


> The link posted is a 2.25 mile road track in New Jersey where open wheel and arca cars run, not a local drag strip.
> Here is their website with overview.   http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/overview.html



Not a drag strip, but runs all kinds of races, not just open wheel / arca.   



Quite a development up there, 700 acres, including such existing and proposed features as:

• Karting track with eight alternative configurations
• VIP suites
• Trackside villas
• ATV, MX, BX, Offroad Experience course
• Restaurants and related retail
• Multiple hotels
• Research and development campus/speedplex
• Hotel with conference center
• garages, warehouses/ storage facilities as needed 

Do Clack and partners plan a drag strip, mini-version of this sort of development?  Is the published site plan the extent of it, or is it just Phase I?


----------



## erniesp

That video was posted as showing the same db level that will be at the drag strip. I didn't say if it was a drag strip or 5 mile oval. Just posted a video. Thanks for being Mr. detective Bell man


----------



## erniesp

GATREE said:


> thats not too bad quit whining



I'm not whining near as bad about this, as you were when I shot that buck in my avatar.


----------



## The Bell Man

erniesp said:


> That video was posted as showing the same db level that will be at the drag strip. I didn't say if it was a drag strip or 5 mile oval. Just posted a video. Thanks for being Mr. detective Bell man



Your welcome, not sure about the same db level though.


----------



## DAWG1419

DAWG1419 said:


> BJB or anyone that supports the track.Just tell me the answer if you and three buddies roll into social circle and spend $40 on gas at the shell. Another $25 for beer (or COKE) and ice.Stop by checkers and spend another $20. That's a total of $85. How much of the $85 will the city see of that money.You know the revenue the city will get out of that??? That seems what everyone is talking about outside Social Circle the revenue the city will get.  Just curious



Now this question is 2 weeks old and still no response.I guess the real answer is ZERO. I keep hearing all the revenue that the city is going to make.What a joke some of you are.You must think us here in SC are just plan stupid. Like I said before I don't care if it goes in or not I just feel for the people close to the track. Pick another compeling arguement next time.


----------



## rjcruiser

DAWG1419 said:


> You must think us here in SC are just plan stupid.  Pick another compeling arguement next time.



Well...to start....your sentence structure and spelling need some work

As far as your question about the money going to the city....I don't know how much of the state tax revenue SC gets.  So...on $85, tax rate of 7%, the state gets $5.95.  Probably a tiny piece of that goes to SC.

Where the City and the County make the money is off of the property taxes, usage tax, utilities etc etc.  Also, as more people come through town, the $85 that is spent at the local stores goes to pay the locals who work there.  That money is recycled within the community.  More jobs...allow for more growth.

You can see this happening on more global scale at our National level.  Look at cities that have no jobs or high unemployment and it is a 3rd world country.  It is a spiral downward that is very difficult to get out of.  At this time, I'd be happy for any type of growth or business that wanted to make a home in the area.


----------



## insanehunter

please show up for the meeting 3/10 at 7pm at the old city hall building in social circle we need all the support we can get ! they will make a decsion soon!


----------



## bluejonesbrothers

DAWG1419 said:


> Now this question is 2 weeks old and still no response.I guess the real answer is ZERO. I keep hearing all the revenue that the city is going to make.What a joke some of you are.You must think us here in SC are just plan stupid. Like I said before I don't care if it goes in or not I just feel for the people close to the track. Pick another compeling arguement next time.




RJ cruiser is right.  You need to do the homework yourself.  Even if it was $1, thats more than the current 0.  You cant tell me that you dont think any money will be generated for SC.


----------



## bluejonesbrothers

erniesp said:


> That video was posted as showing the same db level that will be at the drag strip. I didn't say if it was a drag strip or 5 mile oval. Just posted a video. Thanks for being Mr. detective Bell man




I have to say you and the guy up in Rabun whine the most.  Do you understand Db levels, obviously not because its not a good point to argue. Tractor trailers rolling through town have levels as well as police cars and fire trucks, and what about that farmer on his tractor, or cutting up a tree with a chainsaw.  Everything makes some form of noise and Im pretty sure you have no idea on the actual db levels.  Its a poor point of argument, then you talked a about a deer you killed as a come back on your next post.  Thats just plain pitiful.


----------



## Doc_5729

erniesp said:


> That video was posted as showing the same db level that will be at the drag strip. I didn't say if it was a drag strip or 5 mile oval. Just posted a video. Thanks for being Mr. detective Bell man



That video and those levels are no where near what will be in SC. More propaganda and misinformation in opposition of the track. Those cars aren't running muffler's and complete exhaust systems.

Systems that cost thousands of dollars to keep the noise levels below a certain threshold.


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Not a drag strip, but runs all kinds of races, not just open wheel / arca.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a development up there, 700 acres, including such existing and proposed features as:
> 
> • Karting track with eight alternative configurations
> • VIP suites
> • Trackside villas
> • ATV, MX, BX, Offroad Experience course
> • Restaurants and related retail
> • Multiple hotels
> • Research and development campus/speedplex
> • Hotel with conference center
> • garages, warehouses/ storage facilities as needed
> 
> Do Clack and partners plan a drag strip, mini-version of this sort of development?  Is the published site plan the extent of it, or is it just Phase I?



Instead of posting a bunch of misinformation and TOTAL speculation of what you "think" Clack is going to do, why don't you call him personally and ask him what his plans are.

Donnie is a well respected business man and has NO reason to lie and nothing to gain by doing so.

OH and he will answer or return your call.


----------



## Doc_5729

FWIW - I talked with the owner of the shop that built the 950 HP Mustang I mentioned in my previous post.

He has extended an invitation to anyone that thinks noise will exceed unbearable levels to visit his shop during normal business hours and witness this car running.

Not only will he run the car, but he will provide all records and spec sheets including the dyno analyst.

Keep in mind this Mustang is pushing the upper limits of the track, so this is the extreme side and not many cars of this caliber will be ran there.

My Point???

IF this is the extreme, everything else will be milder.

So here's your chance, skeptic or otherwise.

PM me for details.


----------



## erniesp

bluejonesbrothers said:


> I have to say you and the guy up in Rabun whine the most.  Do you understand Db levels, obviously not because its not a good point to argue. Tractor trailers rolling through town have levels as well as police cars and fire trucks, and what about that farmer on his tractor, or cutting up a tree with a chainsaw.  Everything makes some form of noise and Im pretty sure you have no idea on the actual db levels.  Its a poor point of argument, then you talked a about a deer you killed as a come back on your next post.  Thats just plain pitiful.



Me and the guy in Rabun are friends and we are just picking at each other. That deer was 10 feet from him and busted him and ran down the creek about 500 yards and I shot him.  That is why I said he was whining.

I do believe I understand db levels. I rent construction tools. Especially generators. Customers need small db levels when working in certain situations. 

Yes we have people running chain saws around here. We have fire trucks here (when we have fuel for them since SC is so broke). They are not making noise every weekend all weekend. So get back to me when you have a valid point.


----------



## Doc_5729

DAWG1419 said:


> Now this question is 2 weeks old and still no response.I guess the real answer is ZERO. I keep hearing all the revenue that the city is going to make.What a joke some of you are.You must think us here in SC are just plan stupid. Like I said before I don't care if it goes in or not I just feel for the people close to the track. Pick another compeling arguement next time.



We're the joke? 

I figured if we had to explain it you probably wouldn't understand it.........

But the answer is, that money generated revenue for jobs.
MANY jobs beyond just SC. And people with jobs spend even more money.

Simplified version for complex equation......

Someone works at that store
Someone delivered the fuel
Someone delivered and stocked the beer
Someone delivered and stocked the chips

But someone made those chips, probably in another county

And someone processed the fuel, most likely in another state

Someone brewed the beer, but they bought the ingredients from various farmers to make it.

Those farmers had to have tractors and equipment so there's more jobs.

Parts for the equipment when it breaks down

And don't forget the delivery trucks.

They require tires to.

What about insurance?

That money will be deposited into a bank.

Someone has to print checks.

Someone somewhere has to print the money 

Utilities

Utility workers

Satellite systems for credit and debit cards

Aerospace engineers

Computer guru's to write software

Computer equipment to process sales

Gas pumps

Coolers to chill the beer

I think you get the point now, it's a never ending process created by consumers simply buying some beer and gas....


----------



## andrew_dial

doc....excellent break down for the narrow minded people!!!!


----------



## Doc_5729

andrew_dial said:


> doc....excellent break down for the narrow minded people!!!!



Thanks Andrew, and I didn't even begin to scratch the surface. We both know that list could be several pages long in the process. It is a rather complex economic equation.


----------



## Doc_5729

Thanks to another member for bringing this to my attention. Seems Mr Holt has a conflict of interest in this project. 

Hopefully this will be the ONE that finally gets him kicked out of office.




> Drag strip land targeted by Holt
> 
> By Stephen Milligan
> The Walton Tribune
> 
> Published March 10, 2010
> SOCIAL CIRCLE — A new wrinkle has appeared in the battle over the proposed motorsports complex along Interstate 20 in Social Circle, as a local state representative is taking the fight to the capitol.
> 
> Rep. Doug Holt, R-Social Circle, is looking to propose legislation to the state assembly to amend the city charter to de-annex the land owned by Donnie Clack, who has been pushing for months to get his property re-zoned and his application approved to begin construction on a motorsports complex, including an 1/8-mile drag strip.
> 
> “It’s mainly to put an option on the table to resolve this drag strip issue,” Holt said. “We could put a permanent end to this discussion.”
> 
> Holt’s District 112 covers primarily Newton and Morgan counties, but he said the portion of Social Circle within Newton — including Clack’s property — is of great concern to him right now.
> 
> “(The drag strip) is dramatically out of character with that region,” Holt said. “It would dramatically undermine the tech park at Stanton Springs.”
> 
> Social Circle City Manager Doug White said de-annexation was a drastic step that would negatively impact the city.
> 
> “We think we have a vested interest in that area,” White said. “We hope to see it develop as a gateway to our community. We would hope it can be resolved without resorting to legislation.”
> 
> Holt, however, sees little alternative to stop the motor sports complex from winning approval with the planning and zoning board.
> 
> “The city almost can’t say no to it,” Holt said. “We could cure the problem through de-annexation.”
> 
> Clack said his first reaction to the possible legislation was “shock,” and said legislative action was premature and misguided.
> 
> “I’d like to see what studies he’s done or seen to convince him this was the best action,” Clack said. “Does he have all the public in mind or just the elite few?”
> 
> Holt has not formally presented any legislation to the house and said no action would be taken until he has full approval from the entire local delegation, including Rep. Jeff May, R-Monroe, and Sen. John Douglas, R-Social Circle.
> 
> “We need to try everything to resolve this,” Holt said.


----------



## 95g atl

I'm a resident of North Gwinnett.  LOVE the idea of another local 1/8th mile dragstrip.  Great place to meet people, have some legal and friendly racing.


----------



## Doc_5729

For some reason I can see million dollar lawsuits on the horizon.

Something about a politician with a personal agenda using the powers of government for personal reasons.

I think everyone should just sit back, watch and wait. 

This could get real nasty before it's over.


----------



## Backlasher82

bluejonesbrothers said:


> I have to say you and the guy up in Rabun whine the most.  Do you understand Db levels, obviously not because its not a good point to argue. Tractor trailers rolling through town have levels as well as police cars and fire trucks, and what about that farmer on his tractor, or cutting up a tree with a chainsaw.  Everything makes some form of noise and Im pretty sure you have no idea on the actual db levels.  Its a poor point of argument, then you talked a about a deer you killed as a come back on your next post.  Thats just plain pitiful.



No whining, just facts. The decibel levels were covered earlier in this thread, read up and educate yourself.


----------



## rjcruiser

Doc_5729 said:


> For some reason I can see million dollar lawsuits on the horizon.
> 
> Something about a politician with a personal agenda using the powers of government for personal reasons.
> 
> I think everyone should just sit back, watch and wait.
> 
> This could get real nasty before it's over.



It isn't too hard to connect the dots.

When you got politicians saying..."Its for the people"  you've got to watch out.


----------



## DAWG1419

I understand the point DOC but everyone here said it would generate revenue for SC.Not the guy the made the gas,beer,ice,etc.That is the point I was making. I understand how the system works. But the city will get 0 money from it. Yea they are going to stay in business but not just because they build a track.I will just sit back and see what happens next. Hey cruser my teachers didn't pass me because I was good in school kinda wanted me to leave LOL. Good luck to all in what you want for our little run down broke quite town.God save us all


----------



## bluejonesbrothers

Backlasher82 said:


> No whining, just facts. The decibel levels were covered earlier in this thread, read up and educate yourself.




 I have read and am educated, unlike others on here in pure opposition.  I will say this discussion has made me laugh on more than one occasion due to some peoples sheer stupidity!  I would also like to say thanks to DOC, your post are great, not because we are have the same view point but due to the intelligence seen in your post.  To the people opposing the idea I wish the best for you.  As for me I still have my fingers crossed it will happen, and I have nothing to loose or gain if it does or doesn't.


----------



## Doc_5729

bluejonesbrothers said:


> I would also like to say thanks to DOC, your post are great, not because we are have the same view point but due to the intelligence seen in your post.



Thank you Sir for the compliment. I appreciate that. .


----------



## Doc_5729

Breaking News!!!!!! 

Clack has withdrawn his petition. It's over!!































But don't get overly excited yet because his plans are to RE-submit a new design at a later date.


----------



## Doc_5729

> Drag strip petition to be withdrawn
> 
> Petitioner Donnie Clack plans to reintroduce petition upon completion of more research.
> 
> By Lee Sandow
> News Editor
> lsandow@covnews.com
> 678-750-5013
> POSTED  March 10, 2010 8:43 p.m.
> 
> Donnie Clack announced at a meeting held Wednesday night in Social Circle that he is withdrawing his request to petition for the building of a drag strip from the planning and zoning committee.
> 
> Clack also unveiled a redesign of the site, which would place the drag strip further back in the property and help insulate better against noise. The new plan also abolished the controversial camp site.
> 
> Clack stated that more studies would be done and more information would be prepared, and that he would reintroduce the petition at a later date.
> 
> Representative Doug Holt (R-Social Circle) has also stated his intention to introduce legislature that would de-annex Clack's property and several adjoining lots from the city of Social Circle, thus making the drag strip site a Newton County decision. Clack advised he planned to introduce the petition at a later date regardless of whether the property stays in Social Circle or returns to Newton County jurisdiction.
> 
> For more on this story and to see a map of the redesigned site, please see Friday's edition of The Covington News.








I wonder if Doug Holt is paying attention????? .........



> Clack advised he planned to introduce the petition at a later date regardless of whether the property stays in Social Circle or returns to Newton County jurisdiction.






I have to admit this caught me completely off guard. I had no idea it was coming. I talked with a mutual friend on Tuesday and he reminded me of the meeting and everything was moving ahead as planned.


----------



## Doc_5729

> Property owner to submit new drag strip plans
> 
> Reporter: By Aimee A. Jones,
> Staff Correspondent
> Posted: 10:29 PM Mar 10, 2010
> 
> SOCIAL CIRCLE — The property owner seeking rezoning that would permit a drag strip in Social Circle said he plans to withdraw his rezoning request and seek to reapply in 30 to 45 days with amended site plans that should address many residents’ concerns.
> 
> During a public meeting Wednesday called by property owner Donnie Clack, Michelle Battle, the attorney representing Clack’s interests in this matter, said she will seek to withdraw the rezoning request without prejudice, which means that the request can be resubmitted at a later date.
> 
> Battle said this would give Clack time to create a “tighter and cleaner package,” as well as to see how proposed legislation by state Rep. Doug Holt, R-Social Circle, that would de-annex the property from Social Circle is resolved.
> 
> Clack, who is seeking to rezone more than 320 acres situated between Interstate 20 and U.S. Highway 278 from agricultural use to general commercial, plans to construct a motorsports complex that would include a 1â�„8-mile drag strip on about 120 acres of the land. Most of this property is in Newton County and was annexed into the city of Social Circle in 2008.
> 
> Clack’s plans have drawn sharp opposition from homeowners whose properties abut Clack’s land. Their primary concerns are that the drag strip would bring noise, traffic and pollution to the otherwise rural area.
> 
> The Social Circle Planning and Zoning Commission asked Clack in January to present several specific details about noise and environmental impacts before it would consider recommending approval of special conditions necessary to approve the rezoning request.
> 
> Clack organized Wednesday’s meeting in order to present an alternative site plan for the proposed motorsports complex.
> 
> Battle told the group of drag strip supporters gathered in the Community Room that while she believes the drag strip would bring positive economic growth to the community, she also believes it is “our responsibility to hear the concerns of the community and respond to it.”
> 
> According to the first draft of the revised site plan, the drag strip would be repositioned away from Willow Springs Church Road further west to the interior of the property. Instead of accessing the drag strip directly from U.S. 278, a four-lane parkway would be constructed connecting the highway to the drag strip.
> 
> Furthermore, plans for a campground would be eliminated and replaced with softball fields or some other athletic fields to attract families and youth.
> 
> “We are responding to (opponents’) concerns,” Battle said. “My question to them is, what are they willing to do to bend on this issue?”
> 
> http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/newtonhome/headlines/87298562.html








> plans for a campground would be eliminated and replaced with softball fields or some other athletic fields to attract families and youth.



Now I wonder if the Surrey Chase folks will object to this? Probably so....


----------



## GATREE

erniesp has been a friend for many years i am just pulling his chain and he nows that and take it from some one who has a motorcross track 2 miles from there house sometimes the noise gets old


----------



## insanehunter

donnie is having a meeting with state rep doug holt this week hopefully we can get this thing going soon!


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Clack said he was withdrawing... but has he?  If not, I wonder why the delay.


----------



## insanehunter

he withdrew then renewed it he is making several changes to it he is putting in ballfields up front and putting the track all the way in the back of the property he isnt giving up!


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Clack said he was withdrawing... but has he?  If not, I wonder why the delay.



It's a conspiracy.  He's modifying the track so that it will run 1/4 mile rather than 1/8 mile so that they can have grandnationals there and run cars with no mufflers.


----------



## erniesp

rjcruiser said:


> It's a conspiracy.  He's modifying the track so that it will run 1/4 mile rather than 1/8 mile so that they can have grandnationals there and run cars with no mufflers.



Did you have to.....


----------



## rjcruiser

erniesp said:


> Did you have to.....



Sorry...I couldn't help myself.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

I am curious, though.  Why tell everybody he's withdrawing, and yet as of the past meeting, he still hasn't?  That's the way I hear it, anyway.  He came to the city meeting, didn't talk, but didn't withdraw, either.  I just don't know what to make of that.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> I am curious, though.  Why tell everybody he's withdrawing, and yet as of the past meeting, he still hasn't?  That's the way I hear it, anyway.  He came to the city meeting, didn't talk, but didn't withdraw, either.  I just don't know what to make of that.



How's that commute from Birmingham to all these meetings


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

_AnotherRacingFan wrote:  _
*That's the way I hear it, anyway.*



rjcruiser said:


> How's that commute from Birmingham to all these meetings





What didn't you understand?


----------



## rjcruiser

Another update from the local paper.

Amazing how SC goes through all heck to get more land from Newton County...now wants to give it all back  

I'm kinda split on this one...as a resident of Newton County...the extra land would be nice...but I think Clack should be able to do as he pleases with his land.  Also, anything that happens quickly in politics is usually only good for the politicians and bad for the people.

http://www.covnews.com/news/article/11614/


Petition to circulate for Social Circle de-annexation
Rep. Holt wants to introduce legislation to bar drag strip

Rep. Doug Holt (R-Social Circle) spoke to the Concerned Citizens of Social Circle on Thursday night about his proposed legislation that would de-annex land in Newton County from the city of Social Circle.

 After much deliberation and discussion, a vote was taken by the members present, and the CCOSC narrowly elected to support Holt's proposed legislation. The group has formed a new committee to start collecting signatures to send to other local representatives, whose support Holt will need in order to present the final bill to the governor.

 "You already have my support," Holt said. "It's Sen. Douglas and Rep. May you need to speak to."



Under Holt's bill, all Newton County land that was currently under Social Circle's jurisdiction would be returned to Newton County, and in accordance with state law, the two – Social Circle and Newton County -- would have to come to agreements in the future if any more land would be annexed between them. Under the current law, residents whose property borders on Social Circle land can apply for annexation without needing approval from Newton County.



Social Circle was grandfathered into a new policy which began in 2000, having first acquired Newton County land in 1987.



He encouraged people to mail or call with their comments, stating that this makes the process easier to verify the residents calling were Newton, Walton or City of Social Circle residents.



Holt said that this was a "permanent" solution to the problem, due to the land-use plan Newton County drew up several years ago. The Board of Commissioners has also stated in a letter that was sent to the City of Social Circle that they do not endorse the plans for Donnie Clack's proposed motorsports complex, and would not approve the rezoning of Newton County land to accommodate the project.



Holt explained that there were only 13 more days of the General Assembly remaining, and for the bill to be passed before the house went into recess, the group would need to act quickly. He stated that the group had approximately two and a half weeks to convince Rep. Jeff May (R-Loganville) and Sen. John Douglas (R-Social Circle) to vote with him so he could present it to the governor.



"So long as (the governor) doesn't veto it, it will pass," Holt said.



Social Circle Mayor James Burgess, who stated on Tuesday at the monthly city council meeting that the city should try to hold onto annexed property for future growth, will be speaking at the CCoSC's next meeting. Many CCoSC members voted that they were undecided on Holt's legislation, wanting a chance to hear Burgess' points before any official position was decided. CCoSC founder Jenny Cole, and several of the other founders, shared this belief.



Many members of the CCoSC, though, believed the drag strip needed to be stopped by any means necessary.



"We will absolutely not have this in our town," one said. "There is no way we will let this happen. N-O."



Clack was present at the meeting to hear Holt's presentation. He declined to speak formally or take questions from CCoSC members at the meeting.



The Concerned Citizens of Social Circle meet every Thursday at 6:30 p.m. at the First Baptist Church of Social Circle. For information on the group, visit www.ccosc.com.


----------



## Doc_5729

Some more interesting FACTS have surfaced the past few days.

One of the founders and leaders of the "Concerned Citizens of Social Circle", a very vocal one I might add, owns a motocross track, in or around Social Circle.

AND

Her son races motocross. He's been riding since a very early age.

hhmmmmmmmmmmm, did I say interesting?????????

Or is it just a coincidence?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Some more interesting FACTS have surfaced the past few days.
> 
> One of the founders and leaders of the "Concerned Citizens of Social Circle", a very vocal one I might add, owns a motocross track, in or around Social Circle.
> 
> AND
> 
> Her son races motocross. He's been riding since a very early age.
> 
> hhmmmmmmmmmmm, did I say interesting?????????
> 
> Or is it just a coincidence?




Cue RJ to say, "It's a CONSPIRACY, I tell ya!"   ;-)


Just kidding, no offense meant.  As for the motocross thing, I don't even understand your point.  Are you suggesting that the person who owns a motocross track (you'd have to clue me in on it) is opposing Clack because she thinks that a drag strip is competition to her motocross business?  

For real?

What does her son's motocross racing have to do with anything?  

I'm lost, Doc.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> As for the motocross thing, I don't even understand your point.  Are you suggesting that the person who owns a motocross track (you'd have to clue me in on it) is opposing Clack because she thinks that a drag strip is competition to her motocross business?
> 
> For real?
> 
> What does her son's motocross racing have to do with anything?
> 
> I'm lost, Doc.




wow...

umm....let's see.  I own a business.  There's a competitor that is about to move in down the street.  Why would I want to keep it from moving in down the street?

It is all about the $$$..


ARF....if you can't understand the above post from Doc,   well...I just better leave it at that.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> wow...
> 
> umm....let's see.  I own a business.  There's a competitor that is about to move in down the street.  Why would I want to keep it from moving in down the street?
> 
> It is all about the $$$..
> 
> 
> ARF....if you can't understand the above post from Doc,   well...I just better leave it at that.



LOL, are you both saying that a motocross track is direct competition to a drag strip?  

Seriously, what is the deal with the woman and the motocross track?  I don't know about any of this.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> LOL, are you both saying that a motocross track is direct competition to a drag strip?
> 
> Seriously, what is the deal with the woman and the motocross track?  I don't know about any of this.



ARF...you need to keep better track of the lies you've told in this thread....you claim ignorance when it comes to the link between Clack's develpment and this motocross lady....but earlier in this thread, you've said this.



AnotherRacingFan said:


> Taking another look at the site map, I found something I don't understand.
> In the lower right corner, there is a legend box with a shape in it that I guess refers to a specific land parcel.  It says, "120.0+/- acres applied for GC conditional use rezoning."
> What does this mean (generally, and specific to the track)?
> I can't figure out the location on the map that this legend refers to.  Where is it?
> 
> http://citizensforthemotorsportscomplex.com/



You study the plans, yet you don't see the 8 shape Motocross track in them?

Then, you claim that Clack is going to build something like this...which would be direct competition to another Motocross track.



AnotherRacingFan said:


> Not a drag strip, but runs all kinds of races, not just open wheel / arca.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a development up there, 700 acres, including such existing and proposed features as:
> 
> • Karting track with eight alternative configurations
> • VIP suites
> • Trackside villas
> • ATV, MX, BX, Offroad Experience course
> • Restaurants and related retail
> • Multiple hotels
> • Research and development campus/speedplex
> • Hotel with conference center
> • garages, warehouses/ storage facilities as needed
> 
> Do Clack and partners plan a drag strip, mini-version of this sort of development?  Is the published site plan the extent of it, or is it just Phase I?





From Sir Walter Scott's long poem, Marmion

''Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive''


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Look, bud, I don't appreciate name calling in any circumstance.  But I sure as heck don't appreciate you calling me a liar.  Come back and talk to me when you get some manners.

Meanwhile, I'm not even sure what you are accusing me of.  Are you saying I claimed to not know what a motocross track is?   Come on.

Yeah, I see that Clack has a motocross track in his plans as well as the drag strip, but obviously the main opposition is to the drag strip.  Apples and oranges, friend (just loud ones).

Do I give two hoots whether or not this gal's track suffers if Clack's drag strip goes in?  NO.    If I could hear noise from her track, I'd vote to send her packing, too.  

Do you really think we are all up in arms to protect some woman's business that we never heard of before this?  

I still don't know who or where you're talking about, so it's clearly not a problem for me.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Yeah, I see that Clack has a motocross track in his plans as well as the drag strip, but obviously the main opposition is to the drag strip.  Apples and oranges, friend (just loud ones).
> 
> Do I give two hoots whether or not this gal's track suffers if Clack's drag strip goes in?  NO.



You say you know Clack has a motocross track in his plans.

But earlier, you said this about the correlation between this CCOT lady's track.  See below



AnotherRacingFan said:


> Are you suggesting that the person who owns a motocross track (you'd have to clue me in on it) is opposing Clack because she thinks that a drag strip is competition to her motocross business?
> 
> For real?
> 
> What does her son's motocross racing have to do with anything?





AnotherRacingFan said:


> LOL, are you both saying that a motocross track is direct competition to a drag strip?
> 
> Seriously, what is the deal with the woman and the motocross track?  I don't know about any of this.





Call it what you want, but where I come from, when you say one thing, then you say another...you're called a politician


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> Call it what you want, but where I come from, when you say one thing, then you say another...you're called a politician



Well, the joke is funny, at least.   ;-)


----------



## Doc_5729

Here's MY point ARF......

The ring leader of the "Concerned Citizens of Social Circle" is opposing the Drag Strip because of NOISE!!!!!

HOWEVER, she owns a motocross track which generates lots of NOISE!!!!!!

Now for what it's worth, in my younger days I rode and raced dirt bikes. I had one very bad Suzuki that moved and moved quickly, with or without you. If you get my drift. 

That was about the time Motocross broke out and became popular. I remember the very first race held in Atlanta at the old Fulton County Stadium and I was there.

Those bikes EXCEED the very dB ratings she and all her friends and your friends are complaining about and those bikes are louder than the cars that will be ran on the drag strip.

And PRIOR TO the drag strip proposal, those bikes were ridden regularly in the Surrey Chase subdivision............. 


Interesting huh? 

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

That's my point.


----------



## Backlasher82

There is a motocross track in Social Circle?  Where is it and what's the name of it?


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Backlasher, that's what I would like to know.  Wonder why folks are being so coy.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc, I don't know who you're talking about or what the specifics are.  If you feel this one gal is a hypocrite, more power to you.

Doesn't affect the reasons that my folks are opposed to the drag strip one bit.


----------



## insanehunter

i just went down hwy 11 from i 20 to monroe and there were a lot more signs in social circle for the drag  strip than those that opposed it !


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

insanehunter said:


> i just went down hwy 11 from i 20 to monroe and there were a lot more signs in social circle for the drag  strip than those that opposed it !



The signs for the drag strip are available for free from Clack (and maybe from his "friends with deep pockets," as he describes them).  The signs opposing were distributed at cost & then sold out.  And funny thing:  Last time I drove in for a visit, there were several newly planted, anti-track signs along Hwy 11 between I-20 & Surrey Chase.  By the time I left, all had disappeared.  Makes you go "hmmmm."  Or maybe it's so obvious, you don't even have to go "hmmmmm."

(In case I need to clarify, I didn't take them with me.)


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> The signs for the drag strip are available for free from Clack (and maybe from his "friends with deep pockets," as he describes them).  The signs opposing were distributed at cost & then sold out.  And funny thing:  Last time I drove in for a visit, there were several newly planted, anti-track signs along Hwy 11 between I-20 & Surrey Chase.  By the time I left, all had disappeared.  Makes you go "hmmmm."  Or maybe it's so obvious, you don't even have to go "hmmmmm."
> 
> (In case I need to clarify, I didn't take them with me.)



Interesting I'd say, in many ways.

I travel that road daily and I've yet to see an opposition sign along that stretch, probably because......

1. Mr John Penland owns EVERYTHING between I-20 and Surrey Chase and everyone knows he has a track in his front yard and around that lake.

So it's highly unlikely Mr Penland would allow or tolerate such signs to be placed ILLEGALLY on HIS property. 

And because......

2. That section of Hwy 11 is located in NEWTON COUNTY and NC ordinances do not allow roadside signs of any type ON right of ways.


And YES, NC Code Enforcement works 7 days per week.


----------



## Doc_5729

Backlasher82 said:


> There is a motocross track in Social Circle?  Where is it and what's the name of it?



Privately owned and operated as such. Basically a practice track tucked away in a wooded area. Invitation only from what I understand. (Kind of like a track I had behind my house back in the '70's. No one knew except those we wanted to know.)

Gotta know somebody so to speak. 

They make or made a lot of noise from what I understand.

I wonder if the owners son raced in that "Battle of Atlanta" event Mr. Penland hosted a while back.....


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Interesting I'd say, in many ways.
> 
> I travel that road daily and I've yet to see an opposition sign along that stretch, probably because......
> 
> 1. Mr John Penland owns EVERYTHING between I-20 and Surrey Chase and everyone knows he has a track in his front yard and around that lake.
> 
> So it's highly unlikely Mr Penland would allow or tolerate such signs to be placed ILLEGALLY on HIS property.
> 
> And because......
> 
> 2. That section of Hwy 11 is located in NEWTON COUNTY and NC ordinances do not allow roadside signs of any type ON right of ways.
> 
> 
> And YES, NC Code Enforcement works 7 days per week.



Well, maybe Mr. Penland removed some of them, with perfect right to do so.  

All the same, he doesn't own the land right in front of Surrey Chase, does he?  I don't think he does.  One of the signs I saw was a bit back from the corner as you turn into the neighborhood, & another was further down, ALMOST to Penland's land but not quite.  Up one day, down the next.  Hmmm.

I'm not sure if these particular signs fell within the county right-of-way bordering Hwy 11 or if they were on private property.  

Are you saying Newton County immediately sent out the police to measure the distance and remove the signs?

Wonder which individual might have lent the police a helping hand, if they didn't consider that a priority?

InsaneHunter, where are the pro-track signs along Hwy 11 that you saw?  The farther from the Surrey Chase, the less likely the sign-planters would be adversely affected by the nuisance of the drag strip.  And closer to Surrey Chase, apparently you can't put any sign up at all.  

In any case, IH was going by number of signs, & the fact remains that Clack is handing his out for free, while as far as I know, there are no more anti-track signs available.  Numbers mean nothing so far as the signs go.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

Doc_5729 said:


> Privately owned and operated as such. Basically a practice track tucked away in a wooded area. Invitation only from what I understand. (Kind of like a track I had behind my house back in the '70's. No one knew except those we wanted to know.)
> 
> Gotta know somebody so to speak.
> 
> They make or made a lot of noise from what I understand.
> 
> I wonder if the owners son raced in that "Battle of Atlanta" event Mr. Penland hosted a while back.....



But RJ said:


rjcruiser said:


> wow...
> 
> umm....let's see.  I own a business.  There's a competitor that is about to move in down the street.  Why would I want to keep it from moving in down the street?
> 
> It is all about the $$$..
> 
> 
> ARF....if you can't understand the above post from Doc,   well...I just better leave it at that.



Did RJ not understand your post?  It's not about money, after all; it's strictly the noise factor that you're arguing about?

Does this tucked-away, invitation-only track operate all-day, 7 days a week?  

If not, I don't think you have a valid comparison there.

And again, while a commercial motocross track would contribute significantly to the overall noise pollution from Clack's complex, the main opposition is to the _drag strip. _ And you know very well that a private bike track is no comparison to a drag strip.


----------



## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> One of the signs I saw was a bit back from the corner as you turn into the neighborhood, & another was further down, ALMOST to Penland's land but not quite.  Up one day, down the next.  Hmmm.



To be able to observe signs up one day and down the next...you must enjoy your daily commute to Birmingham  




On a side note, there was an article in the paper the other day about why the Mayor of SC didn't want to annex the property out of City Limits and back to Newton County....just as raw land, the city still gains $75k in annual tax revenues.

No wonder Rep Holt wants the land back  And to think, some of these anti-drag strip residents would want to hand $75k off just to ensure it doesn't get built.


----------



## insanehunter

rj most of the signs were back towards sc


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

rjcruiser said:


> To be able to observe signs up one day and down the next...you must enjoy your daily commute to Birmingham



I guess you are just poking fun.  The post stated this was during my last visit.

I'm more interested in how the lady with the tucked-away-in-the-woods, private track is so afraid of competition, she started this whole opposition thing to keep Clack from stealing her business.  You know, 'cause you understood Doc's post perfectly and I didn't.    
(Just poking fun with you, too.)


----------



## Doc_5729

AnotherRacingFan said:


> Are you saying Newton County immediately sent out the police to measure the distance and remove the signs?
> 
> the fact remains that Clack is handing his out for free, while as far as I know, there are no more anti-track signs available.  Numbers mean nothing so far as the signs go.



YES, Newton County aggressively enforces the sign ordinances. The Code Enforcement department runs 7 days per week. They are commonly known as the sign gestapos.

A real nightmare for Real Estate agents and yard sales. (Of course I know a couple of those guys that can be a real nightmare when it comes to other issues too.)

You ever noticed there are no billboards in Newton County? There's like 3 in the City of Covington, but NONE along the Interstate in the County.

Ever noticed that??? 

Wonder why?

As far as Clack's signs go, he's spending his money and advertising support. And there is strength in numbers, however the minority usually prevails.


----------



## AnotherRacingFan

If Newton County is as rigorous as you (& others) say regarding Code Enforcement  -- in that it is much more so than Social Circle is capable of -- then I think it is best to leave the enterprises on Mr. Clack's property under the county's watchful eye (IMHO).

That factor sways my opinion regarding de-annexation.


----------



## Doc_5729

Last weeks article in the Newton Citizen



> Social Circle mayor: Deannexation not a fix
> 
> Reporter: Aimee A. Jones, Staff Correspondent
> Posted: 11:29 PM Mar 25, 2010
> http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/newtonhome/headlines/89242792.html
> 
> 
> SOCIAL CIRCLE — Mayor Jim Burgess said proposed legislation to deannex a portion of Social Circle from Newton County would not necessarily resolve a conflict over a rezoning application to bring a drag strip to the city, but could actually cause more harm than good.
> 
> After reviewing a history of how Donnie Clack’s 322 acres came to be annexed into the city limits in 2008, Burgess told a gathering of residents opposed to Clack’s plans to build a motorsports complex Tuesday why he believes it is important to keep the city limits intact.
> 
> Clack has requested to rezone his property between U.S. Highway 278 and Interstate 20 from agricultural to general commercial with special conditions. His plans are to build a motorsports complex with a 1⁄8-mile drag strip as the anchor. Clack recently submitted a letter through his attorney to the city asking to withdraw his petition without prejudice, meaning he can resubmit his plans at a later date.
> 
> Clack has an alternative site plan that repositions the drag strip that he is considering presenting as part of his rezoning application. The Social Circle City Council will consider his withdrawal request during its April 20 meeting.
> 
> The issue has polarized the community, with most homeowners whose properties surround the land in question opposed to the plans. Many of those property owners live in Newton or Walton counties but are not within the defined boundaries of Social Circle.
> 
> Walton County resident Shirley Cooley lives near Clack’s property but is not in the city limits. She told Burgess she contacted Kevin Little, chairman of the Walton County Board of Commissioners, about the rezoning petition.
> 
> “He told me there is nothing he can do. We are asking for your help,” Cooley said. “If we’re not in Social Circle and we’re not in Walton County, then where are we?”
> 
> Newton Countian Betty Bledsoe lives in Social Circle, and she said this property is in a watershed district and the current zoning category is in place to protect the watershed and the Little River.
> 
> “A motorsports complex is just not according to our zoning … there is a proper place for everything. I’m not against a drag strip, but not in the middle of residential neighborhoods,” Bledsoe said. “Why are we not protecting the Little River?”
> 
> Jim Hickock said he worked with Newton County on developing the overlay district for the Hub Junction near the intersection of Ga. Highway 11 and U.S. 278. He said that overlay is a major reason Georgia Perimeter College located there.
> 
> “This motorsports complex is very, very detrimental to that and to the Little River,” Hickock said. “Deannexation is probably the smartest thing to do for the city of Social Circle.”
> 
> Burgess disagreed and said that deannexation would, in fact, be harmful to Social Circle.
> 
> He outlined six reasons for his opinion:
> 
> • Deannexing the Newton County portion of Social Circle would “retard future growth and economic development because our growth is to the south, not to the north,” Burgess said. He said without growth, cities will deteriorate. He pointed to the city of Monticello, which is operating in a deficit and recently had to disband its police department.
> 
> • Ga. 11 is “the city’s gateway and I think it should be under our control.” The reason, Burgess said, is “because Newton County has not acted responsibly.” He said Newton County has spot-zoned 20 acres along Ga. 11 for commercial use that was to be developed into a supermarket.
> 
> “I prefer that that kind of development should be to the north,” the mayor said.
> 
> • Social Circle is more oriented to Covington and Newton County than to Monroe and Walton County. “More of our residents shop, exercise, eat in Covington,” he said. “It’s hard for me to understand why Newton County thinks we’re not good enough for Newton County.”
> 
> • Deannexation would cause Social Circle to lose a valuable tax base. Burgess said that even in its undeveloped state, that property brings in about $75,000, or 1⁄2 mill, in property taxes for the city and the Social Circle School System.
> 
> “Can you imagine what this property would do for the school system once revenue starts coming in,” Burgess asked.
> 
> As a point of comparison, he said that Solo Cup brings in about $250,000 a year to schools and once the General Mills distribution facility comes online it will bring in about $500,000 a year. The two industries do not have to pay city taxes for five to 10 years, but once those tax abatement periods expire, the city will realize that income as well.
> 
> • Social Circle could lose potential sales tax revenue through local option sales taxes, special purpose local option sales taxes or education local option sales taxes.
> 
> “We don’t know what that amount is, but it could be substantial money,” the mayor said.
> 
> • Finally, Burgess said, if the property is deannexed, Clack would have the right to request rezoning from Newton County, so the issue would not go away.
> 
> Burgess stressed that the Planning Commission and the City Council must make any rezoning decisions free from prejudice or bias and the burden lies with the city to justify why they approved or denied a petition.
> 
> Joyce Hull said she and her husband moved to River Cove Meadows subdivision a few years ago because of the small-town, quiet nature of Social Circle.
> 
> “You talked about ‘retardation of growth,’ but that’s exactly what would happen (if drag strip approved),” she said. “People won’t move here.”




We don't need more people, we need more BUSINESS and commercial growth.

Private residences are a drain on the system and COST the county tax revenue. Of course most folks lack the intelligence to comprehend that.

I also think the Mayor is telling Holt to go mind his own business and leave SC alone.


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## Doc_5729

Today's Walton Tribune



> Burgess addresses drag strip concerns
> 
> By Stephen Milligan
> The Walton Tribune
> Published March 28, 2010
> 
> SOCIAL CIRCLE — With the debate on de-annexation still heated among opponents against a proposed motorsports complex, Mayor Jim Burgess laid out his own case against the controversial move.
> 
> Speaking to the Concerned Citizens of Social Circle, Burgess refrained from offering any opinion on the complex — owned by Donnie Clack, who hopes to build a drag strip along Interstate 20 — but argued de-annexing all Social Circle property within Newton County would hurt the city.
> 
> “It would retard our future growth,” Burgess said. “Our growth is to the south, in Newton County, not in the north in Walton County.”
> 
> Rep. Doug Holt, R-Social Circle, plans to propose local legislation to de-annex all of Social Circle within Newton County with intent to stop the construction of the motorsports complex.
> 
> De-annexation, Burgess argued, would negatively impact the city’s control over the Highway 11 corridor entering the city to the south, as well as detract from future tax revenue.
> 
> “We’re talking about what could be a substantial amount of money,” Burgess said.
> 
> The city already receives roughly $75,000 in tax revenue from the undeveloped land south of the Walton County border, an amount that would increase with development and could provide additional sales tax revenue to both the Special Purpose Local Option Sales tax and the Education Local Option Sales tax.
> 
> “Our financial situation in Social Circle is sound, but it’s only sound because of growth,” Burgess said. “It’s hard for me to understand why Newton County thinks we’re not good enough to be a part of it — why the county line should be a barrier we cannot cross.”
> 
> Some of the Concerned Citizens members remained convinced the de-annexation was the best way to prevent not only the drag strip, but other adverse developments from impacting the nearby Little River and the Stanton Springs development.
> 
> “De-annexation would probably be the smartest thing Social Circle could do,” said Jim Hickok, of Newton County.
> 
> But Burgess said de-annexation was no magic bullet against the complex.
> 
> “If the land is de-annexed, the petitioner’s legal standing would remain the same,” Burgess said. “He’s got just as much right to request it from Newton County as to request it from us.”
> 
> Scott Simpkins, of Social Circle, said the drag strip was beginning to seem a foregone conclusion.
> 
> “It feels like this decision has already been made to let in the drag strip,” Simpkins said.
> 
> Burgess reiterated no decision had been made, as the application had not been presented to the city council. Clack, in fact, will withdraw his application at the April 20 council meeting, although he has said he intends to re-apply with a revised plan.
> 
> “We just have to see the evidence,” Burgess said on making any decision on the complex. “As elected officials, we cannot prejudge. We need solid legal evidence to support our decision. A zoning decision cannot be made based on a popularity contest.”
> 
> Despite worry from some of the Concerned Citizens, organizer Jenny Cole said she remained confident the burden of proof favored opposing the drag strip.
> 
> “The ordinances we have in Social Circle will support our findings,” Cole said.
> 
> While the Concerned Citizens are still supporting Holt’s de-annexation proposal, Rep. Jeff May, R-Monroe, said he has yet to see a draft of the legislation.
> 
> May, along with Sen. John Douglas, R-Social Circle, would have to approve the local legislation as part of the local delegation.
> 
> “I believe that this is a local issue,” May said. “I believe the city council, the citizens, the local planning board and others have more information than us state legislators and can make the best decisions.”
> 
> Without having seen the legislation, May would not commit to a stance on the issue, but said it was one that deserved everyone’s full attention.
> 
> “I have received numerous phone calls and e-mails both for and against the drag strip,” May said. “I just don’t believe it’s a decision I should make or I’m best qualified to make.”
> 
> http://waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=af6da315334b2cbd


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## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> If Newton County is as rigorous as you (& others) say regarding Code Enforcement  -- in that it is much more so than Social Circle is capable of -- then I think it is best to leave the enterprises on Mr. Clack's property under the county's watchful eye (IMHO).
> 
> That factor sways my opinion regarding de-annexation.



You know...this is probably the only thing we agree on.

I'd love to have the property de-annexed.  That just means $75k more in property taxes that is coming to NC and not SC


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## AnotherRacingFan

It is a complex issue.  I was leaning toward supporting the mayor in wanting to hold the property in SC.  But for me, that would only be in the case of SC banning the drag strip.  The proposed motorsports complex has so many attractions planned, and it seems as though not all of them have been properly mentioned in the application or publicized.  They seem as changeable as the weather.  How will the small city forces respond if something previously unplanned starts up in the future?  How will they respond if something, either in the physical facilities or in the procedures implemented, isn't up to code or expectation?

If Social Circle approves the project but does not have the capability to stay right on top of it and respond quickly to reported or suspected code violations in the future, then that's a huge reason to turn the property over to another government that can.

If I could be assured that the Social Circle government would do right by its citizens and neighbors -- meaning the rejection of this project -- THEN I would change my opinion.


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## rjcruiser

AnotherRacingFan said:


> If I could be assured that the Social Circle government would do right by its citizens and neighbors -- meaning the rejection of this project -- THEN I would change my opinion.





And how do you know that the rejection of this project is doing what is right for the citizens and neighbors of SC?


You know...I hope they de-annex the property and then Clack still gets to build his complex.  That would allow even more revenues for Newton County  Maybe they'll hire off-duty NCSOs rather than off-duty SCPD officers instead as well.


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## Doc_5729

*as expected.....*

Drag strip rezoning withdrawn, may come back

By Aimee A. Jones, Staff Correspondent
Apr 21, 2010
Newton Citizen

SOCIAL CIRCLE — A proposed drag strip in Social Circle is off the table, at least for now.

The Social Circle City Council unanimously accepted Tuesday a request by land owner Donnie Clack to withdraw his rezoning petition without prejudice.

Clack sent a letter to the council through his attorney, Michele Battle, in March requesting the withdrawal.

Because he withdrew his request without prejudice, Clack can reapply for rezoning at a later date.

Social Circle resident Karen Paules asked the City Council Tuesday to insist that Clack have all the documentation necessary before it schedules any public meetings should he reapply for rezoning.

“Before the first hearing is called, I would ask that you make sure his application is complete,” Paules said. “It’s a waste of the city’s time and … taxpayer dollars to have these meetings when the information is not complete. … I would venture to say that we who are against (the drag strip) have provided more documentation to Planning and Zoning that Mr. Clack did. It’s a waste of time.”

Clack had sought to rezone more than 320 acres between Interstate 20 and U.S. Highway 278 from agricultural use to general commercial with special conditions to construct a motorsports complex. The anchor of the motorsports complex — and the most polarizing aspect — would be a 1â�„8-mile drag strip.

Clack’s rezoning request has been met with opposition from many in the community since the Planning and Zoning Commission took up the issue in November. The City Council was slated to take action on his request in December, but it referred the matter back to the Planning and Zoning Commission to define the special conditions.

Many homeowners in the area — most of whose property and neighborhoods abut Clack’s land — contended the drag strip would adversely impact their properties with increased noise, traffic and pollution.

A group of residents has come together to form Concerned Citizens of Social Circle, whose goal is to build opposition to the drag strip and urge the Social Circle City Council to deny the rezoning request.

The group has established a Web site, disseminated petitions, gathered information about other drag strips and held monthly meetings.

On the other side, Clack has helped organize Citizens For the Motorsports, which has also put out yard signs, posted a Web site and held a couple of informational meetings.

A state legislator has also gotten involved in the debate.

Clack’s property in question lies in both Walton and Newton counties, although most of it is in Newton County and was annexed into the city of Social Circle in 2008. State Rep. Doug Holt, R-Social Circle, said he heard from a number of Newton County residents who were unhappy about the proposed drag strip. As a result, he crafted legislation that would have de-annexed the Newton County portion from Social Circle. In order for the legislation to have made it through the Legislature, the other two state legislators representing Social Circle — Rep. Jeff May of Monroe and Sen. John Douglas of Social Circle — would have had to sign on. A contingent within the Concerned Citizens of Social Circle expressed interest in pursuing the de-annexation, but they were unable to generate enough momentum before the end of this year’s General Assembly.

In January, a committee consisting of Planning Commission members, CCOSC members and Clack, met for a work session dedicated to discussing citizens’ concerns about Clack’s plans. During that meeting, Planning Commission members tasked Clack with presenting more specific details about his business plan, how he will address concerns about increased traffic, air and water pollution, as well as the mitigation of excessive noise and light from the drag strip.

In March, Clack announced he would withdraw his request and was willing to revise his site plans, moving the drag strip further toward the interior of his property and constructing a separate road connecting U.S. 278 with the drag strip.

http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/newtonhome/headlines/91778579.html


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## Doc_5729

*interesting.........*



> Clack had sought to rezone more than 320 acres between Interstate 20 and U.S. Highway 278 from agricultural use to general commercial



Zoned "agricultural".

Now that makes me wonder......................


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## erniesp

Doc_5729 said:


> Zoned "agricultural".
> 
> Now that makes me wonder......................



Why are you wondering Doc?


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