# thats it am calling you out



## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

show me one fact that supports your claim that my breed is more unstable  untrustworthy  are less  of  a family pet than your dog or any dog but i don't want what news told are this mama said stuff i want fact from a good kennel club  are some that can back up there research come on lets see it


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## maker4life (Jun 23, 2010)

Well I'm not anti pit bull or any bull dog , any dog for that matter . And I certainly don't agree with banning ANY breeds . But since you asked ....

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

i may be wrong if i am am sorry all i saw that you may have been talking about or referring to is the blog that a few bad case not to be confused with a bad breed choice as a child  i was bitten  once  buy my  grand fathers duck dog a husk i grew up with then  my buddy lab mix but the worst one was a rottweiler none of these breed are bad to me  in ever case there was some thing that a owner should have done


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

also i asked for research  and no news  i am looking for some thing  that has been done in a lab by some way over payed  that supports that one breed is more dangerous then the next Lindsy lohan/britney spear make head lines all the  time  guess there America top ten crimenals  the truth is they are not but the new runs it time after time why because of  at thing called ratings  the same is true with pit bulls


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## SGADawg (Jun 23, 2010)

Sorry Lee, but that report is real-world info which is much more reliable than lab studies.  Any scientific research progresses from what is observed in a lab to how it plays out under real-life conditions.  A report that puts Pitt attacks several times more numerous than breeds that outnumber Pitts by several times is quite conclusive.

The simple fact is that any dog can bite.  Few dogs have the strength in their jaws to break bones.  Pitts do.  Pitts have been bred to be aggressive catch and guard dogs for hundreds or thousands of years.  The fact that your sweet baby has never been taught aggression or has shown aggressive tendencies can't overcome instinct.  If surprised, hurt or scared, instinct will take over.  Most dogs will bite just to get away, aggressive dogs will continue the attack until the victim is down or dead.


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed


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## HALOJmpr (Jun 23, 2010)

Hey Lee,   I can't speak to the validity of that paper but it's 24 years of data compiled on dog attacks etc.  No lab test for whatever brief time can ever hope to be as accurate as a compilation of real world data.  I have a problem with them calling Bull Mastiffs the same as Presa Canarios because they aren't the same dog.  I agree that a lot of opinions of people are formed by news that they hear but that's just a fact of life.  I've owned a pit and a lot of other breeds but I believe like most that most dogs are fine if they are raised and treated right.  I think that enjoying your dogs, raising them responsibly and taking the high road when it comes to making statements will always win more respect and followers than arguing any point.


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

i dint ask if in some cases . i asked  if just because of it's breed  you show me were they are genetically different cause if there not then it must be some thing else that sets them apart from other dogs i tell you what it is people owners  not the dog  a dog is that a dog it is  what you make it or let it be if  a dog shows human aggression and you don't correct it or put the dog down and it bites some then its your fault we are the humans we bring pets in to are life's an are community  so we are responsible for make sure are pets are safe friendly or secured can yall agree


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

HALOJmpr said:


> Hey Lee,   I can't speak to the validity of that paper but it's 24 years of data compiled on dog attacks etc.  No lab test for whatever brief time can ever hope to be as accurate as a compilation of real world data.  I have a problem with them calling Bull Mastiffs the same as Presa Canarios because they aren't the same dog.  I agree that a lot of opinions of people are formed by news that they hear but that's just a fact of life.  I've owned a pit and a lot of other breeds but I believe like most that most dogs are fine if they are raised and treated right.  I think that enjoying your dogs, raising them responsibly and taking the high road when it comes to making statements will always win more respect and followers than arguing any point.



thank  for your  post but it trooubles me that theonly people speaking  are the uninformed people and i  love my dog and it  would  be ugly if some  came out to take them because of some law that gets passed


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## JustUs4All (Jun 23, 2010)

You will never convince the non-believers, Lee.  I have never owned a Pit, but I do have a Rottie.  The vast majority of Pitts and Rotties are great dogs, but both of these breeds have a potential that frightens some people.

The problem with Pits seems to lie in the dogged nature of the breed which allows it to ignore pain and adversity.  When one does decide to attack, for whatever reason, they are very difficult to dissuade from the attack.  

The problem with Rotties seems to lie in the bite power and the physical strength of these dogs.  When one does decide to attack, for whatever reason, they are very difficult to deal with.


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## good33 (Jun 23, 2010)

thats what everybody is saying it is the owners, its all about what you teach your dog


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## good33 (Jun 23, 2010)

i aint got a problem with pits or any other dog but nobody talks about chows and they are worse in my opinion


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

JustUs4All said:


> You will never convince the non-believers, Lee.  I have never owned a Pit, but I do have a Rottie.  The vast majority of Pitts and Rotties are great dogs, but both of these breeds have a potential that frightens some people.
> 
> The problem with Pits seems to lie in the dogged nature of the breed which allows it to ignore pain and adversity.  When one does decide to attack, for whatever reason, they are very difficult to dissuade from the attack.
> 
> The problem with Rotties seems to lie in the bite power and the physical strength of these dogs.  When one does decide to attack, for whatever reason, they are very difficult to deal with.



i agree  i think dogs are like guns some people shouldn't have them but how do you go about that you know your dang if you do and dang if you don't even thou some people don't need guns am not willing to vote for more gun laws  but i do support tuffer punishment  the same with the dogs am i the only one that  feels this way


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

HALOJmpr said:


> Hey Lee,   I can't speak to the validity of that paper but it's 24 years of data compiled on dog attacks etc.  No lab test for whatever brief time can ever hope to be as accurate as a compilation of real world data.  I have a problem with them calling Bull Mastiffs the same as Presa Canarios because they aren't the same dog.  I agree that a lot of opinions of people are formed by news that they hear but that's just a fact of life.  I've owned a pit and a lot of other breeds but I believe like most that most dogs are fine if they are raised and treated right.  I think that enjoying your dogs, raising them responsibly and taking the high road when it comes to making statements will always win more respect and followers than arguing any point.



it hard to just sit back when some thing i love so much is under attack but thanks for the advice


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## DYI hunting (Jun 23, 2010)

I don't have any hunting dogs, but my 8 year old pitbull is a big baby and has never tried to hurt anyone.   It has a lot to do with the way they are raised. 

But, I have seen coyote mixes that were babied by their owners and still turned into dangerous dogs around other people.  It has to do some with breeding.


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## JustUs4All (Jun 23, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> i agree  i think dogs are like guns some people shouldn't have them but how do you go about that you know your dang if you do and dang if you don't even thou some people don't need guns am not willing to vote for more gun laws  but i do support tuffer punishment  the same with the dogs am i the only one that  feels this way



Many of us agree with you.


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## maker4life (Jun 23, 2010)

Well like I said , I'm not anti any breed and think the whole breed specific legislation is rediculous but you asked for facts and that what the paper had . 

I'm not going to argue it because I'm not an anti , just presenting the facts .


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## bawlingtall (Jun 23, 2010)

well ya don't see what the kid or person as done to the dog in the past. ya can pester anydog and its going to bit ya. any dog will. I love my pits and wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. and i be danged if somebody comes to my house to get my dog. they will be caring me out in a bodybag. or in cuffs. I ant giving up my dogs.


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## maker4life (Jun 23, 2010)

I also think that some of the numbers might be skewed because a certain type of person is more apt to have certain breeds . It's like a bad apple spoiling the bunch . Some folks are drawn to those breeds just to see how bad they can make them .


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## bawlingtall (Jun 23, 2010)

i agree with ya on that


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## lee hanson (Jun 23, 2010)

maker4life said:


> Well I'm not anti pit bull or any bull dog , any dog for that matter . And I certainly don't agree with banning ANY breeds . But since you asked ....
> 
> http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf



Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent. A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.) Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds. 

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)


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## bawlingtall (Jun 24, 2010)

holy crap. poms are crazy. mom has had a few. they will bit your ankels. and will protect there master. my grandma has one and you go to huge her the pom grawels. and as bit some to..... me. lol


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## MesquiteHeat (Jun 24, 2010)

http://www.atts.org/statistics.html

  And to whoever said that Pit Bulls have been bred for thousands of years as guard dogs, I'm sorry but that's wrong.  Breed hasn't even been around for a thousand years much less used as a guard dog.  Please go to www.apbtconformation.com and learn something without speculating with a bunch of wives tales


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

is your dog on in this list                                              pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. pomeranian Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

MesquiteHeat said:


> http://www.atts.org/statistics.html
> 
> And to whoever said that Pit Bulls have been bred for thousands of years as guard dogs, I'm sorry but that's wrong.  Breed hasn't even been around for a thousand years much less used as a guard dog.  Please go to www.apbtconformation.com and learn something without speculating with a bunch of wives tales



thank you


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## bawlingtall (Jun 24, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> is your dog on in this list                                              pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. pomeranian Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds



ya i got two on the list right there. The rotty and the pit.


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

In Canine homicides and the dog bite epidemic: do not confuse them, it has been pointed out that the dog bite epidemic as a whole involves all dogs and all dog owners, not just the breeds most likely to kill. 

In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that: 

■Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous. 
■An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above). 
■Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

There is much in the scientific literature of animal behavior that sheds light on the causes of dog attacks. As you review the literature, it is interesting to note that a dog owner is directly responsible for the presence or absence of most factors that determine whether a dog will bite


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## bawlingtall (Jun 24, 2010)

o. and i have warned everybody around and got beware of dog up 2. so it is there folt if the get bit in my yard. thats the way i see it. the rotti is very well traned. i can sit with th door open and she will not come in to the house unless i tell her to. sits and is house trained. i have had a dog if ya came into my room at night it would go after ya. lol. i miss that dog........ always mad me late for school though. lol


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## Tuffdawg (Jun 24, 2010)

No body reports chihuahua bites because they think its funny.Now add about 50-70 lbs and give em big prominent jaws and they would consider that breed to be lethal to mankind as we know it.


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## bawlingtall (Jun 24, 2010)

yea. i agree with ya.


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## SarahFair (Jun 24, 2010)

I sometimes wonder if police dogs are included in the GSD bites. 

Ill admit.. While I dont think that every pitbull is bad I dont trust a stray one running up in my yard. Ive had about 3 in the past year. I can usually tell by body language if they are gonna be up to no good. I havent had a problem out of the 3 that have wondered up. I was cornered by a poorly trained pit bull once. It had me in the corner growling and barking and slowly creeping up to me. This happend 3x during the corse of the night till _I_ had to ask the owners to put it up (and it wasnt their house either..).
If you see your dog is not good in certain situations DO NOT put them in that.

I have a femals GSD that was trained by a ex cop. Shes an awesome family dog that listens to every command. The man we got her from made her super paranoid about _everything_. 'Oh I dont let people touch my dogs! Your best friend is the one thatll steal from you' is what he told us. My female has a FIT if someone comes in the house.
To keep her life safe and other adults, children, dogs safe I put up a $2,000 fence and have worked with her on her skitso ways.
On the other hand my male GSD is sweet as can be. Love people and other dogs.

I think a lot of it has to do with temperment and training..


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## vonnick52 (Jun 24, 2010)

I think a lot has to do with an individual dog's genetics too.  i.e. How much inbreeding has occured? What were the traits selected to pass on? etc.

For example, dog aggression was a desirable trait when dogfighting was prevalent.  It hasn't been that long, so not all of those dogs' bloodlines are gone....the genetics are still present, and in some cases it affects the individual dog. 

Sorta how many of the working dogs are now being bred for show and are ending up genetically inferior and no longer a good representation of the original breed standard.  

While I don't think that every dog of "dangerous" breeds is prone to or even inclined to attack, I do think that there are breeds that are more prevalent to attack.  An owner of such breed must realize that they have a potential bomb in their hands and that they have a responsibility to others to properly train the pup.  

That all being said, I grew up with a couple German Shepherds which were guard dogs, owned a lab/chow mix (most gentle dog I've ever met), and now currently have a cur dog.  I hunt with quite a few of my buddy's pits, and I trust his dogs completely.


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## grouper throat (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm not anti-pit or any breed for that matter. Alot of dogs can be aggressive, few dogs can snap a grown man's arm in half like a pit. Pits belong as catch dogs for hog hunting and there's not much other use for them IMO. Dogs are individual and some are docile while others are aggressive. I've been around both types of pits. 

The only dog to ever snap at me was a red nose, and he was nice and friendly to me most of the time. He died by jumping through a window to go after the new mailman.    

Lee- please use puncuation and sentence structure as in your last few posts and more people might take you seriously in what you have to say.


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## The AmBASSaDEER (Jun 24, 2010)

good33 said:


> i aint got a problem with pits or any other dog but nobody talks about chows and they are worse in my opinion



I was bit by a chow

All the pits that I have come into contact with have been sweet babies, unless they were fighting dogs.

My beagle(charlie) plays with a 88lbs pit mix(rocky), goes slap off on him, and Rocky just goes with the flow.

I think its how you raise them.


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## KDarsey (Jun 24, 2010)

I got beat up by a dominical chicken once..like to have pecked me to death, clawed me and whooped me with his wings..


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## dawg2 (Jun 24, 2010)

Here you go

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

bawlingtall said:


> well ya don't see what the kid or person as done to the dog in the past. ya can pester anydog and its going to bit ya. any dog will. I love my pits and wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. and i be danged if somebody comes to my house to get my dog. they will be caring me out in a bodybag. or in cuffs. I ant giving up my dogs.



that right if the news said that a  dog  killed a kid because the parents was not watchint the child then some of the blame would be were it belongs


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## hoghunter007 (Jun 24, 2010)

i think alot of it has to do with what happens when a pit attacks. i dont think that they are the most aggressive dog out there but they do get the most press when they attack because they dont tend to bite someone one time on the leg, they tend to eat the leg off. also with all the dog fighting that has gone on over the years alot of people dont know what they are getting when they get a pit puppy. i have pits that i use for hog hunting and so do all of my buddies and none of my dogs or theirs have ever bitten anyone but i dont let my kids take them out of the kennels when i am not around. i say better safe than sorry. to be fair though if i had a rott or doverman i wouldn't let them out with the children when i wasn't around because the one thing you can't do is trust a dog 100 percent of the time. they all have there days just like people. i guess the bottom line is a owner has to be responsible for what he or she has and take the steps needed to try and keep the chances for an incident to a min.


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## Sargent (Jun 24, 2010)

A machete can kill you.
So can a butter knife.

Both are cutlery.

However, the effort it takes to turn the butter knife into a deadly weapon is far greater than the effort it takes to turn the machete into a deadly weapon.

Both are harmless if handled safely.

Due to its physical attributes (sharper blade and longer cutting area), the machete needs an increased level of safety when handling.

When accidentally misused (IE: waving the item of cutlery around), the machete has a higher propensity to do harm than the butter knife.

If someone wanted to do harm to another individual... say, a burglar, that person would choose to defend themselves with the machete rather than the butter knife.

If someone wanted a utility tool to eat a bologna sandwich with, the butter knife would be the more logical choice.


Pit bulls and other traditional "bully" dogs (Why do they call them "bully" dogs, anyway?) can make wonderful, harmless pets.  

If not handled in a careful manner, One can deduce from the report listed above that bully dogs are quicker to do severe harm than non bully dogs.  You just can't outrun that.

If you want to have a pit bull, so be it.  The pit bull should be trained more than a basset hound.  The handler should be stronger (one could argue they should have lots more experience with dogs).

....And if not trained correctly, you cannot fault anyone who takes action against the animal (legal or other methods) in order to maintain their (and their family's) level of safety.


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## duckdawgdixie (Jun 24, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> i dint ask if in some cases . i asked  if just because of it's breed  you show me were they are genetically different cause if there not then it must be some thing else that sets them apart from other dogs i tell you what it is people owners  not the dog  a dog is that a dog it is  what you make it or let it be if  a dog shows human aggression and you don't correct it or put the dog down and it bites some then its your fault we are the humans we bring pets in to are life's an are community  so we are responsible for make sure are pets are safe friendly or secured can yall agree



Everybreed is genetically different to some extent that's why they look. Different and act different from other breeds, but I agree that one of the main reasons pitts get a bad rap is the type of people who predominantly own them, atleast I've never heard of a hog hunters dogs killing a person







lee hanson said:


> Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent B-5.)



But this doesn't help your argument


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

some of ya have made grate points thanks for your input i respect you view's even if they are not the same as mine but this post  asked facts back up by research and supported by a group like akc,ukc,national temperament testing society not  the new not from what you heard not a lawyer  come a lawyer will say anything to win in fact in any court case just about there are two lawyer in the room  that stronly dissagree  thanks for  stoping and posting and plz give this breed a chance


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## Tuffdawg (Jun 24, 2010)

KDarsey said:


> I got beat up by a dominical chicken once..like to have pecked me to death, clawed me and whooped me with his wings..


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

duckdawgdixie said:


> Everybreed is genetically different to some extent that's why they look. Different and act different from other breeds, but I agree that one of the main reasons pitts get a bad rap is the type of people who predominantly own them, atleast I've never heard of a hog hunters dogs killing a person
> 
> 
> 
> ...


am not going to come on here and lie  are leave the facts out they have attacked people but why . why in the last few year have they came in to the spot light ill tell you why it  the same reason  the small town i grew up on  don't fell like home no more the community has changed new people came old ones left  the same is true with the dogs look at the owners to day compared to 30 yrs ago keep in mind  am only 26  and most people my age don't tie there shoes or pull there pants up and these are the new people that own this wonderful breed that what the differences is between then and know is


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## Sargent (Jun 24, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> some of ya have made grate points thanks for your input i respect you view's even if they are not the same as mine but this post asked facts back up by research and supported by a group like akc,ukc,national temperament testing society not the new not from what you heard not a lawyer come a lawyer will say anything to win in fact in any court case just about there are two lawyer in the room that stronly dissagree thanks for stoping and posting and plz give this breed a chance


 
Your organizations don't employ attorneys?


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

Sargent said:


> Your organizations don't employ attorneys?



here we go you  you cant find proof that supports this breed is less of  a family dog so yall go i never said lawyer are bad


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.

The action in Alabama was brought by the Washington Animal Foundation (WAF) against the city of Huntsville, which had claimed that American Pit BullTerriers were genetically dangerous.

The case centered on four pit bulls held in an animal shelter and adopted by three local women. The dogs were survivors of a group of over 50 pit bulls seized in a raid on a dog-fighting ring in April 2000. Half of the dogs died from injuries or disease, whilst the remainder including four puppies - were held at the City pound and put up for adoption.

Sheila Tack, an emergency room nurse at Crestwood Hospital, adopted two of the puppies that she named Justice and Elizabeth. Whilst they remained impounded, she visited them twice a week.

The other puppies, David and Nellie, were adopted by Kay Nagel, a military officers wife and resident of Redstone Arsenal, and Loyce Fisher, a civil service worker from Cullman.

However, the City Council refused to release the dogs, stating that they were a potential danger to human beings, although none had apparently displayed any aggression. The matter was referred to court for a legal decision on the dogs' fate. During a hearing last year, lawyers representing the city, Michael Fees and Greg Burgess, told Madison County Circuit Judge Joe Battle the animals were vicious and should not be re-homed.

The women, who did not have a lawyer, argued the animals were never trained to fight and conditioning can suppress any vicious tendencies the dogs might have.

Judge Battle agreed and on Nov 13 2001, declared the four young pit bulls were not dangerous because they were never trained to fight. The court allowed the city to destroy 21 adult pit bulls which had been used for fighting.

However, the City appealed Battle's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court and asked the court for an order preventing the women from taking custody of the dogs. At this point, Seattle-based WAF became involved in the case and appointed Huntsville lawyer Mike Seibert to fight their case, based on evidence they gathered to counter the City lawyers claims that all Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous.

The foundation hired veterinarian Dr. Alan Jones of Hazel Green to examine the dogs. But the officers at the shelter do not allow anyone to have physical contact with the pit bulls, even vet Jones.

"They looked fat and happy," he said. "They seemed starved for attention and not aggressive at all"

Glen Bui, spokesman for WAF told a local newspaper that the dogs should be released.

"I believe that the City of Huntsville is wasting thousands of taxpayers' dollars attempting to destroy innocent dogs that were already given by the circuit court to the three women,' he said.

WAF filed an Amicus (third party) submitting genetic proof that Pit Bulls are not dangerous.

The city of Huntsville were backed by the extremist animal rights organization PETA that Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous, with evidence provided by veterinarians, none of whom was an expert in any specific canine or genetic field.

WAF cited case laws under Due Process of the law, and stated that it was unconstitutional to rule a specific breed of dog as dangerous in this way. They also claimed it was genocide to try to eradicate the pit bull breed.

WAF submitted evidence to the Supreme Court that they were able to provide:

1. Identification of expert treatises regarding the genetics of the breed in question

2. Testing and studies regarding genetics verses environment as the catalyst for a specific dog breed's aggression 

3. Social contributions made by the American Pit Bull Terrier (i.e. as Assistance Dogs, Search and Rescue Dogs etc.)

4. The associations brief assisted the court as it had substantial knowledge concerning the issue before the court

5.The briefs filed by the City were insufficient to adequately address the far reaching issues involving genetic breed bias

6. The Foundation read all briefs and believed that innocent pet owners and innocent pets were not represented by either brief.

WAF co-founder Glen Bui told OUR DOGS this week: "The court granted WAF's petition and allowed us seven days to file amicus curiae (disinterested adviser). Myself along with Attorney Mike Seibert worked on the amicus long hours into the night, while WAF members Kay Nagel and Sheila Tack proofread and added input. It was finished with less than one hour before the deadline to file and Sheila raced to the US post office and sent it certified mail.

"Huntsville's entire case rested on affidavits from veterinarians claiming they examined the four pit bull pups and that they would pose a danger to the community because pit bulls are genetically dangerous. They also claimed the women had no legal right to adopt the pups, this was also addressed in the amicus brief."

On Friday, August 30, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in WAFs favour and ordered that the dogs should be released for adoption, accepting the evidence but forward by WAF that no breed of dog is genetically dangerous. "This is fantastic news," said Bui. "The city could appeal against the ruling, but Id like to think theyll give way and release the dogs to their new owners so that they can enjoy a good life. Two of them will be trained as Search and Rescue Dogs; the other two will become pets. The pit bulls have been evaluated and temperament tested before they are released, they are being spayed and neutered. The city did tell the media that the dogs would be released, so lets hope they keep their word."

Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous."


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## Sargent (Jun 24, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> here we go you  you cant find proof that supports this breed is less of a family dog so yall go i never said lawyer are bad


 
You did, however, discount the research posted in previous posts as (paraphrased) 'made up by lawyers'.  

So, it is actually part of this topic.


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## NGaHunter (Jun 24, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> show me one fact that supports your claim that my breed is more unstable  untrustworthy  are less  of  a family pet than your dog or any dog but i don't want what news told are this mama said stuff i want fact from a good kennel club  are some that can back up there research come on lets see it



Heres a few Links to read

http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-06-23/news/17379548_1_dog-bites-pit-bulls-dog-attacks

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/pgs/stats.html

http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-statistics.htm

I really believe that all the blame should be placed on the dogs owner.  They are the ones that should be responsable.


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## Tuffdawg (Jun 24, 2010)

NGaHunter said:


> Heres a few Links to read
> 
> http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-06-23/news/17379548_1_dog-bites-pit-bulls-dog-attacks
> 
> ...



 nuff said.


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## dawg2 (Jun 24, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> Here you go
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## K9SAR (Jun 24, 2010)

Starting multiple threads with the same topic is poor forum etiquette, and it doesn't really help get any points across (especially when they are the same points.)


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

i  dint try to start multiple  post i made one  about american bullies and ever one started talking about pitbull there not the same


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## SarahFair (Jun 24, 2010)

I thought it was about bully breeds in general


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## lee hanson (Jun 24, 2010)

SarahFair said:


> I thought it was about bully breeds in general



i had a post that saked what to you think about am bullies they are a pitbull staff cross that been around for 20+ years that i know of


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## ABAChunter (Jun 24, 2010)

Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. That's better than the popular Border Collie (a breed who scores 79.6%).


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## lee hanson (Jun 26, 2010)

ABAChunter said:


> Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.
> 
> Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. That's better than the popular Border Collie (a breed who scores 79.6%).


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jun 26, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed


 


HALOJmpr said:


> Hey Lee, I can't speak to the validity of that paper but it's 24 years of data compiled on dog attacks etc. No lab test for whatever brief time can ever hope to be as accurate as a compilation of real world data. I have a problem with them calling Bull Mastiffs the same as Presa Canarios because they aren't the same dog. I agree that a lot of opinions of people are formed by news that they hear but that's just a fact of life. I've owned a pit and a lot of other breeds but I believe like most that most dogs are fine if they are raised and treated right. I think that enjoying your dogs, raising them responsibly and taking the high road when it comes to making statements will always win more respect and followers than arguing any point.


 
With the exception of a rare case or two, in general, a dogs behavior is dictated by it's owners training, or lack there of.

I'd rather see owners of malicious dogs do time. That way the breeds are not singled out.


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## lee hanson (Jun 26, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> With the exception of a rare case or two, in general, a dogs behavior is dictated by it's owners training, or lack there of.
> 
> I'd rather see owners of malicious dogs do time. That way the breeds are not singled out.



that's  right punish the deed not the breed


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## Bkeepr (Jun 27, 2010)

I like Cesar Milan and his way of dealing with the unique and individual behaviors of dog breeds.  And his Daddy dog was a great ambassador for bully breeds; Junior is following in his footsteps very nicely.

Cesar says, when faced with a situation a dog reacts first as an animal, then as a dog and finally as its particular breed.  A good owner takes control of the situation and prevents their dog from going into breed mode in an inappropriate situation.  For example, a blue heeler should not be heeling toddlers!  He refers to pits and bull dogs as gladiators, and the owner should put a stop to things before the dog feels that it has to go into gladiator mode.

It seems like every decade or so a dog breed is demonized.  Dobermans, GSDs and rottweilers, now pits.  What will be next?


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## OlAlabama (Jun 27, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> thank  for your  post but it trooubles me that theonly people speaking  are the uninformed people and i  love my dog and it  would  be ugly if some  came out to take them because of some law that gets passed



I have a shotgun. Had it most a my life. Joe down the street also has one and used it to kill somebody. Is the shotgun to blame? Some people would say yes. Ban guns. Regulate. Big dog's are like shotguns. You can have un for your whole life. Joe down the street trains um to kill. People wan a blame the dog. No one in their right mind buys into this kind a thinking!


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## lee hanson (Jun 27, 2010)

OlAlabama said:


> I have a shotgun. Had it most a my life. Joe down the street also has one and used it to kill somebody. Is the shotgun to blame? Some people would say yes. Ban guns. Regulate. Big dog's are like shotguns. You can have un for your whole life. Joe down the street trains um to kill. People wan a blame the dog. No one in their right mind buys into this kind a thinking!



i was told once that if a gun is to blame for killing then a pencil to to blame for misspelled words


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## lee hanson (Jun 27, 2010)

Bkeepr said:


> I like Cesar Milan and his way of dealing with the unique and individual behaviors of dog breeds.  And his Daddy dog was a great ambassador for bully breeds; Junior is following in his footsteps very nicely.
> 
> Cesar says, when faced with a situation a dog reacts first as an animal, then as a dog and finally as its particular breed.  A good owner takes control of the situation and prevents their dog from going into breed mode in an inappropriate situation.  For example, a blue heeler should not be heeling toddlers!  He refers to pits and bull dogs as gladiators, and the owner should put a stop to things before the dog feels that it has to go into gladiator mode.
> 
> It seems like every decade or so a dog breed is demonized.  Dobermans, GSDs and rottweilers, now pits.  What will be next?


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## lee hanson (Jun 27, 2010)

the problem with this breed is rap video,the news,bad owners,ect


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## lee hanson (Jun 28, 2010)

hope  yall are geting this and thanks for the posts


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## bawlingtall (Jun 28, 2010)

Btt


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## bawlingtall (Jun 28, 2010)

Btt


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## dawg2 (Jun 29, 2010)

OlAlabama said:


> I have a shotgun. Had it most a my life. Joe down the street also has one and used it to kill somebody. Is the shotgun to blame? Some people would say yes. Ban guns. Regulate. Big dog's are like shotguns. You can have un for your whole life. Joe down the street trains um to kill. People wan a blame the dog. No one in their right mind buys into this kind a thinking!



You can not compare an inanimate object, incapable of action without an "operator" to a living, breathing, thinking "animal."  There is no comparison nor likeness between a "dog" and a "firearm."


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

If there was a manual describing ideal Pit Bull temperament, it would 
probably read something like this: "The Pit Bull is goofily friendly towards 
people - family, friends, and strangers alike. Known for its sound 
character, strong nerve, and great intelligence, the breed makes an ideal 
companion for households with children, while remaining strong and 
vigilant enough to protect its loved ones if need be. It is never necessary 
to embark on guard or attack training with this breed, as they are 
naturally attuned to their environment and intuitive about real threats. 
Although never aggression towards people without real need, the Pit Bull 
may show dog-directed aggression, but sensitivity to other dogs will vary 
from dog to dog. The properly socialized and trained Pit Bull should not be 
an instigator, yet it is unlikely for the breed to shy away from a challenge. 
The breed is known for its high prey drive, and so due caution should be 
exercised when cats, rabbits, domestic fowl, and other such animals are 
present. Dog-sensitivity and high prey drive should not be viewed as a 
fault, although excessive, uncontrollable aggression is neither desired nor 
correct. Aggression towards humans should be viewed as a serious fault."


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

go to you tube and watch coon dog on a roll cage  all hunting dog have some animal aggression but i believe it only comes out when human teach it. if you don't believe that true go buy you a hunting dog keep in crate ,cage or your home till it grown then when it a bout 2-3 years old take it to the woods and  see how it works out.e


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## NGaHunter (Jun 29, 2010)

Define your "hunting dog"...I believe I have a hunting dog infact 2 and they are not agressive...except maybe "lick agressive"

On a side note I need a little help from you...you ask what people thought of the American Bulldog...I only have Labs so I looked on the AKC Website and UKC but do not find that breed...can you point me in the right direction to learn about them?


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

its american bully it is a cross between a pit bull and am staff go to bbkc,abkc, they are not game bred at all. when i say hunting dogs i mean coon dogs...........rabbit dogs........hog dog dogs.......these dogs are not chasing  these animals to talk with them   lol. i dont mean there just wild and crazy i like all dogs for the most part


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

i have seen these dogs when they catch the game


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## grouper throat (Jun 29, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> go to you tube and watch coon dog on a roll cage  all hunting dog have some animal aggression *but i believe it only comes out when human teach it*. if you don't believe that true go buy you a hunting dog keep in crate ,cage or your home till it grown then when it a bout 2-3 years old take it to the woods and  see how it works out.e



Think again. It's genetic in all (if bred correctly) but some it needs to be coaxed and encouraged. I've seen alot of terriers chase/tree squirrels that were never taught. I've seen beagle pups put in a rabbit pen for the first time that run a rabbit like they are tied to it. I've had quite a few deer pups introduce to a hot track and would run it. Down at a friend's river house they have a female bluetick that will tree coons, also never taught. Stick to your pits


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

ya and we had a husky when i was about 12 that woould track deers


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

i guess German shepherds just catch a cab up to the sheriff department to get a job they need no training


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## lee hanson (Jun 29, 2010)

bryant1 said:


> Think again. It's genetic in all (if bred correctly) but some it needs to be coaxed and encouraged. I've seen alot of terriers chase/tree squirrels that were never taught. I've seen beagle pups put in a rabbit pen for the first time that run a rabbit like they are tied to it. I've had quite a few deer pups introduce to a hot track and would run it. Down at a friend's river house they have a female bluetick that will tree coons, also never taught. Stick to your pits



so then if Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- all genetic why then when a animal is raised in captivity can it not just be turned out in to the wild things like tigers huh you are telling me  that lions and things are not genetically bred better then  a coon dog come on man when you beed you do it for  thing that make you breed better at it job like tracking dogs big ear lose skin help push scents up to there nose


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## grouper throat (Jun 29, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> so then if Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- all genetic why then when a animal is raised in captivity can it not just be turned out in to the wild things like tigers huh you are telling me  that lions and things are not genetically bred better then  a coon dog come on man when you beed you do it for  thing that make you breed better at it job like tracking dogs big ear lose skin help push scents up to there nose



Once you learn some semblance of proper communication/writing skills I will read your post again and reply. It is a headache to try and decipher this jibberish. I"m not trying to insult you, it's just a suggestion.


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## bawlingtall (Jun 30, 2010)

Btt


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## bawlingtall (Jul 7, 2010)

Btt


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## bearpugh (Jul 10, 2010)

the fact that pits are always making the news, and their owners are always trying to "convince" the world they're good dogs, tells me all i need to know. most incidenses come from not keeping them put up. a person or child walking down the street or in their own yard is not at fault.


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## golffreak (Jul 10, 2010)

I was going to respond regarding all of the Pit attacks, but you've made your mind and nothing will change that.


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## lee hanson (Jul 10, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> the fact that pits are always making the news, and their owners are always trying to "convince" the world they're good dogs, tells me all i need to know. most incidenses come from not keeping them put up. a person or child walking down the street or in their own yard is not at fault.



i dont think any one said it was the victums fault it is all on the owners


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## lee hanson (Jul 10, 2010)

grouper throat said:


> Once you learn some semblance of proper communication/writing skills I will read your post again and reply. It is a headache to try and decipher this jibberish. I"m not trying to insult you, it's just a suggestion.



what am saying is if the genetics then why cant you just turn animals such as tiger that have been raised in captivity out in to the when they are grown  want  its genetics  tell him how to survive


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Jul 10, 2010)

Yall need major help, anyone that actually is ignorant enough to say that pits shouldnt be "classified" as mean dogs needs to watch the dern news.  What about all these dogs that get out and bite kids, oh let me guess the kids shouldnt have woke them up from their nap??? Anyone that puts ANY animal on the same level as humans is a nutcase.  I have had many, many dogs, and if any of my dogs ever get aggresive towards people and act like the want to eat people, I dont have a problem "putting them to sleep" go ahead and call peta on me, I dont care yall said yalls opinion Im tellin u mine. Yall keep saying that its the owner, that aint true either.  I have a blue heeler that I never tried to make mean or aggressive, and about 2 years ago I had her bred every since then she has become very territorial over my house and the yard, she will get tore up if anyone comes to the house, and would probably bite if you get her in a corner, and I never wanted her to be like that, cause now I have to constantly put her up if vistors are coming.  She is about 7 and I raised her as a pup, and she goes to work with me, and anywhere else with me, but If she starts biting people, I dont see a problem with ending her life before she ends someones.  Dogs become aggresive for a lot more reasons that just the owners.  Good luck trying to prove your reasons to the judge when your dogs eat a little kids arm


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## lee hanson (Jul 10, 2010)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> Yall need major help, anyone that actually is ignorant enough to say that pits shouldnt be "classified" as mean dogs needs to watch the dern news.  What about all these dogs that get out and bite kids, oh let me guess the kids should have woke them up from their nap??? Anyone that puts ANY animal on the same level as humans is a nutcase.  I have had many, many dogs, and if any of my dogs ever get aggresive towards people and act like the want to eat people, I dont have a problem "putting them to sleep" go ahead and call peta on me, I dont care yall said yalls opinion Im tellin u mine. Yall keep saying that its the owner, that aint true either.  I have a blue heeler that I never tried to make mean or aggressive, and about 2 years ago I had her bred every since then she has become very territorial over my house and the yard, she will get tore up if anyone comes to the house, and would probably bite if you get her in a corner, and I never wanted her to be like that, cause now I have to constantly put her up if vistors are coming.  She is about 7 and I raised her as a pup, and she goes everywhere with me, but If she starts biting people, I dont see a problem with ending her life before she ends someones.  Dogs become aggresive for a lot more reasons that just the owners.  Good luck trying to prove your reasons to the judge when your dogs eat a little kids arm



 I have had many, many dogs, and if any of my dogs ever get aggresive towards people and act like the want to eat people, I dont have a problem "putting them to sleep" go ahead and call peta on me, I dont care yall said yalls opinion Im tellin u mine..................................why anit she died then now you say if she bites some one


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 11, 2010)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> Yall need major help, anyone that actually is ignorant enough to say that pits shouldnt be "classified" as mean dogs needs to watch the dern news.


 
Usually because of the severity of the attack by a mistrained dog owned by an ignorant person. If every dog bite incident were reported by the biased media then Pits would be in the minority, I assure you. 

I have been around dogs all of my life and the only time I've ever been bitten in an unprovoked situation was by a German Shepard. The only other breed that made me uncomfortable was a Rottweiler. But even in that situation I made sure the dog understood that if it crossed the line it would die, immediatly. 

Establishing dominance with any species is important, but kids don't have that advantage. IMHO ankle biters are the most likely to attack unprovoked.


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

he





Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> Yall need major help, anyone that actually is ignorant enough to say that pits shouldnt be "classified" as mean dogs needs to watch the dern news.  What about all these dogs that get out and bite kids, oh let me guess the kids shouldnt have woke them up from their nap??? Anyone that puts ANY animal on the same level as humans is a nutcase.  I have had many, many dogs, and if any of my dogs ever get aggresive towards people and act like the want to eat people, I dont have a problem "putting them to sleep" go ahead and call peta on me, I dont care yall said yalls opinion Im tellin u mine. Yall keep saying that its the owner, that aint true either.  I have a blue heeler that I never tried to make mean or aggressive, and about 2 years ago I had her bred every since then she has become very territorial over my house and the yard, she will get tore up if anyone comes to the house, and would probably bite if you get her in a corner, and I never wanted her to be like that, cause now I have to constantly put her up if vistors are coming.  She is about 7 and I raised her as a pup, and she goes to work with me, and anywhere else with me, but If she starts biting people, I dont see a problem with ending her life before she ends someones.  Dogs become aggresive for a lot more reasons that just the owners.  Good luck trying to prove your reasons to the judge when your dogs eat a little kids arm



hey ill tell you what call up any news chanel and tell them  you wher just ataced by you friend boarder collie and see if they care then let us know what they say


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## bigtall (Jul 11, 2010)

A suggestion. The points that you are trying to make would come across much clearer with the use of punctuation and capitalization. It takes too much time to try and decipher these posts so I have skimmed across them and come to the same conclusion that I usually do; Personality traits and qualities of people are directly related to, and reflected in their choice of pets. The guy walking down the road with a pit bull, I don't want anything to do with him and I am going to keep my kids away. (on a side note, the title "American Staffordshire Terrier" was adopted in lieu of "Pit Bull" to help try to improve the image and change all the negative publicity that the breed was recieving.)


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## Bamafan4life (Jul 11, 2010)

Pitbulls are not bad dogs they are just more likely to have bad owners, i am not scared of any pit it is good at fighting other dogs but they are to small to reach my neck which is where they could kill me and not strong enough to bring me to the ground. if you notice the worst case in pitbull attacks is always on children or the elderly, now the pits big brother the rott has the potential to inflict serious injury or death to me same thing with shepherds and dobermans.


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

•	Pit Bulls were created by crossing bulldogs and working terriers.  The breed was originally created to be used in then-popular dog fighting matches in Great Britain and the U.S. but was also simultaneously used as a catch and working dog and family companion.

•	Today, the Pit Bull is widely recognized as a loving family companion, and regularly competes in weight pull, obedience, agility, and conformation shows.

•	The Pit Bull is a medium sized breed, generally between 40 – 60 pounds.  They come in all colors except merle. 

•	There are some awful myths surrounding the Pit Bull breed.  All of these myths are unfounded or grossly exaggerated.  

•	The Pit Bull does not have bite pressure that is higher than any other breed.  In fact, the Pit Bull has very average or below average bite pressure for a dog of its general size.  The average bite pressure of a dog is 320 pounds, and Pit Bulls fall at or below that average.

•	The jaws of Pit Bulls do not lock, and in fact are the same as any other dog of comparable size.  They work the same way any other breed’s jaws work, as well.

•	Pit Bulls do not ‘snap’, their brains do not swell, and their skulls are not too small for their brains. All of these myths were originally told about Dobermans, but were transferred onto Pit Bulls when Dobermans lost favor as the ‘demon dog de jour’.


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 11, 2010)

Hey Lee,
You never responded to Dawg2's CDC link. Here ya go, just in case you missed it. I think this is the proof you were asking for.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 11, 2010)

Only dog that ever has given me stitches was a dang Pomeranian!  And sure enough...the list in Post #2 reads that a Pom has killed someone....they are like gremlins!!!


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 11, 2010)

Lee Hanson!!! Come one man....these threads are getting old! I am a pit owner.....their are no winners and no losers!!!!....I love my dogs! But all dogs snap....even rat terriers, poodles, etc.....but you are serious beating a dead horse everytime you start the threads


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> Lee Hanson!!! Come one man....these threads are getting old! I am a pit owner.....their are no winners and no losers!!!!....I love my dogs! But all dogs snap....even rat terriers, poodles, etc.....but you are serious beating a dead horse everytime you start the threads



hey every one told me to lay off i did  i think i went a day or two with out posting on my own post people kept posting so some must still want to chat............iunder stan what you are saying but these people have it all wrong .i never said  that abpt where perfect  but any fool should see as over bred as they  are if they was such a bad breed then  thier would be way more atacks


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 11, 2010)

So you claim that the dog in your avatar is a registered American Pitbull Terrier????


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

"It is estimated that up to 200 Pit Bulls are killed EVERY DAY in Los Angeles County, CA, shelters alone because there are not enough homes for them. Imagine the number across the entire United States...


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> So you claim that the dog in your avatar is a registered American Pitbull Terrier????



he is ukc,abkc,bbkc registered  and hes only 6 months


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 11, 2010)

akc???


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

no abkc american bully kennel club  bbkc  (www.bullybreedkennelclub.com)


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 11, 2010)

all i see is staffordshire....unless you have him dual registered.


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

i just told you he is registered with  3 kennel clubs none of them are am staff


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

how can i send you a copy of his papers


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jul 11, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> but any fool should see as over bred as they are if they was such a bad breed then thier would be way more atacks


 
Exactly. Heck even my 40 lb. Boykin Spaniel can draw blood when I get to rough housing with him. He gets all wild eyed and has the intent to do harm in his posture.

A dog is only what you train him to be, regardless of the breed.


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## lee hanson (Jul 11, 2010)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Exactly. Heck even my 40 lb. Boykin Spaniel can draw blood when I get to rough housing with him. He gets all wild eyed and has the intent to do harm in his posture.
> 
> A dog is only what you train him to be, regardless of the breed.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

Hey yall google police dog bites  or atacked a kid it will suprise you


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## ofcford (Jul 12, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> Lee Hanson!!! Come one man....these threads are getting old! I am a pit owner.....their are no winners and no losers!!!!....I love my dogs! But all dogs snap....even rat terriers, poodles, etc.....but you are serious beating a dead horse everytime you start the threads


 
I was an animal control officer for five years. Never did I work a pit bite.
I used to explain the situation to frightened people like this. If you had Hulk Hogan and PEE WEE Herman, and you treated them both badly from birth. Which one would you be more scared of. Now treat them nicely from birth...now I would only be scared of one of them. (Pee Wee cause he is a sex offender...dummy)


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

ofcford said:


> I was an animal control officer for five years. Never did I work a pit bite.
> I used to explain the situation to frightened people like this. If you had Hulk Hogan and PEE WEE Herman, and you treated them both badly from birth. Which one would you be more scared of. Now treat them nicely from birth...now I would only be scared of one of them. (Pee Wee cause he is a sex offender...dummy)



thanks  for your post. i tell people all the time that think pit bulls or bad to call their local animal control office ask them how many bite cases they have for pit bulls.but some people are just to lazy to do they rather watch the  news.


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 12, 2010)

Lee? Why won't you respond to the CDC link? It IS what you asked for after all. You just seem to be ignoring it.....as if to say, if I don't respond, it doesn't exist??


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## K9SAR (Jul 12, 2010)

Because I believe in 1005 factual, educational, and professional information...



SouthernBeagles said:


> Lee? Why won't you respond to the CDC link? It IS what you asked for after all. You just seem to be ignoring it.....as if to say, if I don't respond, it doesn't exist??



Actually, the CDC study has been proven to be skewed and inaccurate, and if you notice the information found as to where they got their information: 

Data for human DBRF identified previously for the period of 1979 through 1996 were combined with human DBRF newly identified for 1997 and 1998. *Human DBRF were identified by searching news accounts and by use of The Humane Society of the United States’ registry databank.*

"By searching news accounts" ... when we already know that the majority of media outlets couldn't tell the difference between a pit bull and a bulldog.  I don't think "searching news accounts" is any sort of educational or valid research technique.  

“..to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed.” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000, p. 838).

In addition to breed misidentification, the CDC statistics are inaccurate because they are not based on “reliable breed-specific population data” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000, p. 838). 

“…it is imperative to keep in mind that even if breed-specific bite rates could be accurately calculated, they do not factor in owner-related issues. For example, less responsible owners or owners who want to foster aggression in their dogs may be drawn differentially to certain breeds” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000, p. 839).

The CDC concurs:

“Breed-specific legislation does not address the fact that a dog of any breed can become dangerous when bred or trained to be aggressive. From a scientific point of view, we are unaware of any formal evaluation of the effectiveness of breed-specific legislation in preventing fatal or nonfatal dog bites. An alternative to breed-specific legislation is to regulate individual dogs and owners on the basis of their behavior” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000 Vet Med Today: Special Report 839-840).

Even "DogBiteLaw.org" says there are problems with statistics such as CDC's report:

http://dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/danger.htm#statistics

"The conclusions that we draw about dangerous canines is derived from what we know about them...Less often, we are exposed to media accounts, governmental studies, lawmakers' arguments, reports from organizations such as the Centers for Disease Control, and the opinions of experts who have conducted original research.  Unfortunately, however, there are serious gaps in the data on this subject, leaving our assumptions and conclusions open to doubt."

Consider five fatal attacks included in the CDC statistics:


A man was bitten in the forearm by a Pit bull. The bite was not serious but introduced into the wound was a virulent and fast spreading bacteria. The man died 4 days later from this virulent bacterial infection.

A teenage girl give birth to a infant, distraught and frightened, she tossed the hours-old infant into a neighboring-junk-strewn yard where two Pit bulls resided. The dogs killed the newborn.

A German shepherd mixed breed dog went into a bedroom, lifted a newborn out of a crib and carried the infant (by the head) into the living room  where the adults were seated.

A man restrains his girlfriend, while ordering his Pit bull to repeatedly attack her.  He is eventually convicted of murder and is serving a 20-year sentence.

An elderly man attempts to stop his German Shepherd dog from fence fighting with his neighbor's dog, the dog turns on his owner, severely mauling him, inflicting fatal head and neck wounds.

The CDC was right, in that five people died as a result of a dog bite. But were all these bites the result of aggression? Were they the same type or level of aggression? Which behaviors initiated the attack, human or canine? So the number of deaths by dogs (as per the CDC) cannot be used to define aggression, or the aggression of certain breeds, as aggression is not defined or qualified. 
(JAVMA: Journal of the American Veterinary Medicine Association.)


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## K9SAR (Jul 12, 2010)

ABAChunter said:


> Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. That's better than the popular Border Collie (a breed who scores 79.6%).



June 12, 2010 - APBT - 86% ATTS


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Lee? Why won't you respond to the CDC link? It IS what you asked for after all. You just seem to be ignoring it.....as if to say, if I don't respond, it doesn't exist??[/Q                                                                                                                                                                                                                         because that study is usless in the very beging  it saids pit bull and pit bull  a like breed  you got  so happy because you thought  was right that you did not take in what you was reading...........have you ever seen  a bsl  bill if not look  at one befor  you get cocky they dont just say pit bull  they normaly say any thing that look like a pit bull .do you remeber that game find the pit bull  that was posted. it had 24  different breed on it only one dog  was a apbt. ya well any time one of those 24 other breeedsdo something thehy say pit bull so  i dint  see the pointe in responding to a usless study that was based third party ideals  not facts


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Lee? Why won't you respond to the CDC link? It IS what you asked for after all. You just seem to be ignoring it.....as if to say, if I don't respond, it doesn't exist??



  because that study is usless in the very beging  it saids pit bull and pit bull  a like breed  you got  so happy because you thought  was right that you did not take in what you was reading...........have you ever seen  a bsl  bill if not look  at one befor  you get cocky they dont just say pit bull  they normaly say any thing that look like a pit bull .do you remeber that game find the pit bull  that was posted. it had 24  different breed on it only one dog  was a apbt. ya well any time one of those 24 other breeedsdo something thehy say pit bull so  i dint  see the pointe in responding to a usless study that was based third party ideals  not facts


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

that would be like say  john comits most of the crime in my town about 2/3 of it. then say studys are based john and ever one that looks a littel like john.facst based  what some  one told my brother then he told my mom , my told my wife then she told me ect


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 12, 2010)

> that would be like say john comits most of the crime in my town about 2/3 of it. then say studys are based john and ever one that looks a littel like john


If it isn't the Pit Bulls that are prone to attack (and giving your breed a bad reputation).....which breed of bulldog is it? Before you answer, please be prepared to show scientific proof or studies in your answer and not just opinion.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> If it isn't the Pit Bulls that are prone to attack (and giving your breed a bad reputation).....which breed of bulldog is it? Before you answer, please be prepared to show scientific proof or studies in your answer and not just opinion.



my proof  go to your local shelter a willing to bet most ever mixed mutt is called a pit mix..........then read house bill 78 from 2005 you will see people us the if walk like a apbt look like a apbt it must be a pit bull why is this so hard for you to under stand  did  take the find the pit bull test how did you  do some plz re post it  on here it will speak for it self


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

see if you can find the pit bull...........http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

If you really want to know which dogs you need to watch out for get a service job like a cable guy or telephone guy or just ask one.I know when I was doing cable we ran into every breed their is every day.Not just in peoples yards but on the streets to.You can say what you want but you try being treed up a ladder 30 feet in the air or chased
To your truck by a growling pit every other week.And see if thats enough real world facts for you.Sure they were a few thag woukd do the Same thing+but+no+where+as+many+as+the+pits.+


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> If you really want to know which dogs you need to watch out for get a service job like a cable guy or telephone guy or just ask one.I know when I was doing cable we ran into every breed their is every day.Not just in peoples yards but on the streets to.You can say what you want but you try being treed up a ladder 30 feet in the air or chased
> To your truck by a growling pit every other week.And see if thats enough real world facts for you.Sure they were a few other dogs that would do the+same+thing+but+no+where+as+many.


 hey tell me what a apbt looks like...........then look at this my pointe will be made http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

Do you really think you are the only one on here that knows what one looks like?


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> Do you really think you are the only one on here that knows what one looks like?



that what i thought ......seeing as how they  come in all shape size and color they some times are mistaken for other breed. that all i was trying to say, never said you dint now what they look like. so here ill try this again look at this and you willsee what i mean  http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

That was funny like any body is going to think any of those were pits in real life.I cant stop laughing about the Jack Russell.  Next thing you know they will have a Puddle on there.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> That was funny like any body is going to think any of those were pits in real life.I cant stop laughing about the Jack Russell.  Next thing you know they will have a Puddle on there.



ya let me guees you got the first time.................not


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

And how many times have you been out with your dog and some one says oh what a cute Jack russell you have.If the angle and light is right you can make a cow look like a pit.So all those pics don't mean any thing.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

right light has nothing to do  with structure . i cant count the times people have came up to me  and said man  i like your boxer. or the time's we been out at the flea market or a park  and some one stopped to pet  my dogs  and talk for awhile then they  what kind of dog they are  then when tell them they are surprised. some people are so dun they start saying what  bad dogs  they are even thou a few minutes earlier they was peting them and say how they like to take them home. they have a saying for people like that, i think it's you cant fix stupid


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> And how many times have you been out with your dog and some one says oh what a cute Jack russell you have.If the angle and light is right you can make a cow look like a pit.So all those pics don't mean any thing.



so how many try did it  take for you to get the right one


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## bearpugh (Jul 12, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> so how many try did it  take for you to get the right one



why'd you start this thread. your the kind that wouldn't see any evidence no matter what it is. you're right and the whole world is wrong. i just hope none of your family gets hurt. i've seen this stuff 1 st hand. by the way, most reputable ins. companies won't sell you homeowners ins if you own one. i've seen pits as swwet as babies. seen the same ones turn like you flipped a switch.


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

Like I said before those pics don't mean any thing.They are on there to try to trick people into picking the wrong dog.If you have to trick people than what good is it?Theres no way you could make any one think of takeing that trick pic thing serious.Do you really think you could sit a pit and a jack russell side by side in real life and people wound't know which is which.Or the lab or any of the other ones on there.Do it that way and see how many get it right.But don't try to trick them. Every one has+the+right+to+like+which+ever+kind+of+dog+they+want+or+not+like+them.You+happen+to+like+apbt+and+thats+fine+with+me+but+your+not+going+to+make+every+body+think+their+perfect+little+angels.I+know+theres+good+ones+out+there+and+I+also+know+theres+alooootttt+of+bad+ones.It+just+so+happens+that+the+bad+out+number+the++good.


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Jul 12, 2010)

90% of all people who claim to have a pit have a mut! I'll even admit that my 2 dogs are boxer pit mixes.....they are not "pits"....


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## bearpugh (Jul 12, 2010)

lol, they're mits


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> Like I said before those pics don't mean any thing.They are on there to try to trick people into picking the wrong dog.If you have to trick people than what good is it?Theres no way you could make any one think of takeing that trick pic thing serious.Do you really think you could sit a pit and a jack russell side by side in real life and people wound't know which is which.Or the lab or any of the other ones on there.Do it that way and see how many get it right.But don't try to trick them. Every one has+the+right+to+like+which+ever+kind+of+dog+they+want+or+not+like+them.You+happen+to+like+apbt+and+thats+fine+with+me+but+your+not+going+to+make+every+body+think+their+perfect+little+angels.I+know+theres+good+ones+out+there+and+I+also+know+theres+alooootttt+of+bad+ones.It+just+so+happens+that+the+bad+out+number+the++good.



you say they try to trick you . then so say you can easily tell the differences between  a apbt and a jack Russel. i think you just couldn't  identify the apbt  in a few tries  which  mean you now know  you may have mistaken some  of those dog  for pit bulls. dont fell bad it happens more often then you think.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

chiefsquirrel83 said:


> 90% of all people who claim to have a pit have a mut! I'll even admit that my 2 dogs are boxer pit mixes.....they are not "pits"....



that right  theres no telling how many dogs in heat get left  out side to  get hung up with  your local stray then get passed off as pure breeds


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> why'd you start this thread. your the kind that wouldn't see any evidence no matter what it is. you're right and the whole world is wrong. i just hope none of your family gets hurt. i've seen this stuff 1 st hand. by the way, most reputable ins. companies won't sell you homeowners ins if you own one. i've seen pits as swwet as babies. seen the same ones turn like you flipped a switch.



most  ins company will take you paymen for 20 yrs then when you make a clamie try not to give you  your money to dont they...................................... an i am very open to others just haven't found  any one  with facts that are worth the paper they are printed on


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> why'd you start this thread. your the kind that wouldn't see any evidence no matter what it is. you're right and the whole world is wrong. i just hope none of your family gets hurt. i've seen this stuff 1 st hand. by the way, most reputable ins. companies won't sell you homeowners ins if you own one. i've seen pits as swwet as babies. seen the same ones turn like you flipped a switch.



You made me what I am today, courage at its best. 
You wanted me to know no fear, a cut above the rest. 
Not only did I master that, I've thrown in loyalty, too. 
Look past my eyes into my soul, you know I'd die for you. 
I'll watch your kids, I'll watch your house. Your praise will be my crown, 
ask what you will-I'll do my best. I'll even be your clown. 
But some of you don't like me, I'm sure I don't know why. 
The only thing I'm guilty of is courage, love, and try. 
But still they want to see me go, they want my breed to end. 
Will I see you sitting idly by? You, whom I call a friend? 
You made me what I am today, you never saw me waiver. 
I've done my best to keep you safe. Won't you please return the favor.


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## bearpugh (Jul 12, 2010)

how sweet. your dog write that?


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

i love all my dog i have 5 now. at one time i had 9 i  also have 3 kids  and have never had aproblem with humans some i have had dint  like chickens.............but i tell what try google police dog bites kid it has happen way more than once unprevoked


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

It doesn't matter what kind of bull crap spin you try to put on what every body says.You can't change what these dogs are known for.It's a rep they earned and you can't change that either.And see if you can come up with something better than no body knows what they look like.I don't know where you live but in most places there common.


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## wabbithunter (Jul 12, 2010)

*Pits*

It doesn't matter what kind of bull crap spin you try to put on what every body says.You can't change what these dogs are known for.It's a rep they earned and you can't change that either.And see if you can come up with something better than no body knows what they look like.I don't know where you live but in most places there pretty common.


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 12, 2010)

Well I admit I took the test and got the first choice wrong......But I got it right the second try.  
It is like trying to pick out the dobermann Pinsher from this mess.
1.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



3. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



4.


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## bearpugh (Jul 12, 2010)

true story. a dear friend of mine had a beautiful grey pit. great dog, always friendly and playful. they had owned him for 9 years. he played with the kids, other dogs, and my friend. never an issue. they had a big fenced in back yard for him to rome. everyday like clockwork, my friend as soon as he came home everyday, would step out back and toss a frisbee or tennisball with the dog. sometimes they'd just wrestle. the dog was always gentle. for some reason one day he gets home, walks out back to play with the dog . the dog charges and grabs his hand. he trys to pull away but the dog won't let go. finally tears off a finger and loses his grip. my friend runs for the back door. just as he reaches the door the dog gets him again . grabs the same hand and starts shaking. finally in a panic, my friend reaches inside the door and grabs a 22 rifle he keeps there. he shoots the dog to get him off. in the end he loses use of the hand permanently and loses 3 fingers on that hand. but the worst was the trauma of killing his own beloved dog. its been 10 years and he still won't own another dog. just the mention brings tears to his eyes. we will never understand. the dog was loved and had a great life. but something went very wrong. he was just greatful it was him and not one of the kids.


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## ThaDuck (Jul 12, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> true story. a dear friend of mine had a beautiful grey pit. great dog, always friendly and playful. they had owned him for 9 years. he played with the kids, other dogs, and my friend. never an issue. they had a big fenced in back yard for him to rome. everyday like clockwork, my friend as soon as he came home everyday, would step out back and toss a frisbee or tennisball with the dog. sometimes they'd just wrestle. the dog was always gentle. for some reason one day he gets home, walks out back to play with the dog . the dog charges and grabs his hand. he trys to pull away but the dog won't let go. finally tears off a finger and loses his grip. my friend runs for the back door. just as he reaches the door the dog gets him again . grabs the same hand and starts shaking. finally in a panic, my friend reaches inside the door and grabs a 22 rifle he keeps there. he shoots the dog to get him off. in the end he loses use of the hand permanently and loses 3 fingers on that hand. but the worst was the trauma of killing his own beloved dog. its been 10 years and he still won't own another dog. just the mention brings tears to his eyes. we will never understand. the dog was loved and had a great life. but something went very wrong. he was just greatful it was him and not one of the kids.



That’s awful.  Luckily it was him and able to defend himself and not a child. Glad he’s ok.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> true story. a dear friend of mine had a beautiful grey pit. great dog, always friendly and playful. they had owned him for 9 years. he played with the kids, other dogs, and my friend. never an issue. they had a big fenced in back yard for him to rome. everyday like clockwork, my friend as soon as he came home everyday, would step out back and toss a frisbee or tennisball with the dog. sometimes they'd just wrestle. the dog was always gentle. for some reason one day he gets home, walks out back to play with the dog . the dog charges and grabs his hand. he trys to pull away but the dog won't let go. finally tears off a finger and loses his grip. my friend runs for the back door. just as he reaches the door the dog gets him again . grabs the same hand and starts shaking. finally in a panic, my friend reaches inside the door and grabs a 22 rifle he keeps there. he shoots the dog to get him off. in the end he loses use of the hand permanently and loses 3 fingers on that hand. but the worst was the trauma of killing his own beloved dog. its been 10 years and he still won't own another dog. just the mention brings tears to his eyes. we will never understand. the dog was loved and had a great life. but something went very wrong. he was just greatful it was him and not one of the kids.



am really sorry to hear that.but that type stuff happen with all breeds and all animals be cuase they are animals.then agin some people live good lifes for years then one day  they go crazy . they  are just dogs nothing else  some good some not so good they are not a bad bred are any  more dangerous then any other breed . i trust my dog with my kids more then i do with most people i meet


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## ThaDuck (Jul 12, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> am really sorry to hear that.but that type stuff happen with all breeds and all animals be cuase they are animals.then agin some people live good lifes for years then one day  they go crazy . they  are just dogs nothing else  some good some not so good they are not a bad bred are any  more dangerous then any other breed . i trust my dog with my kids more then i do with most people i meet



Yeah but I’d have to say, thinking back, the stories I’ve heard like this involve that breed.  

I have a Chihuahua mix and can relate to this type of unpredictable behavior from a dog. That being said, the difference is obvious.


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> It doesn't matter what kind of bull crap spin you try to put on what every body says.You can't change what these dogs are known for.It's a rep they earned and you can't change that either.And see if you can come up with something better than no body knows what they look like.I don't know where you live but in most places there common.



what they are known for ok i dont think you can begin to tell me  what they are known for every  1 bad thing you have  heard i can  name 5 good things............only in the  past 10-20 year's have they been even consider a problem so you tell me what  changed it was not the breed its the owners and society ,,,,,,,,,,just like 20 years ago you dint hear of kids going to school  killing large groups of people i a gree there is some thing wrong with this world to day . and pit bulls are  one of the victims. if you  take the  time to right down all  the problems in the world to day the common denominator is people we are the only thing on this planet attached are involved with every thing wrong to day


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## ngacoons (Jul 12, 2010)

to me one of the worst dogs that are prone to attack or bite is a dalmation they are some of the worst tempered dogs i have seen they just dont have the numbers as a pit to have the chance to score as high on the temperment test


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

ok may be pit bulls are bad. have you heard what they have done lately. ok here we go, they caused and oil spill, started a war caused global warming,rob stores,cheat on their spous,make ans sale drugs,a bandon their kids,kill for money,smoke drugs in the white house,steal your identy, brake in your home,burnn churches, are you geting the pointe it sound like the ones that brealy do the thing should be ban or fixed so they cant breed  just  in case you dont get it people are the problem . it was people that made this breed


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

ngacoons said:


> to me one of the worst dogs that are prone to attack or bite is a dalmation they are some of the worst tempered dogs i have seen they just dont have the numbers as a pit to have the chance to score as high on the temperment test



my best freinds got  a dalmation for his littel girl .3 years later  the dog bit her on the face  from the  top of her eye to the botom of her jaws.


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## ngacoons (Jul 12, 2010)

what are you referring to when ya say smoke drugs in the white house


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

ngacoons said:


> what are you referring to when ya say smoke drugs in the white house



bill clinton ...weed  or does that not count since he dint inhale  lol.....................and he had the highest postion it the country but i know we should exspect more from are dog then we do are selfs......


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## ThaDuck (Jul 12, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> ok may be pit bulls are bad. have you heard what they have done lately. ok here we go, they caused and oil spill, started a war caused global warming,rob stores,cheat on their spous,make ans sale drugs,a bandon their kids,kill for money,smoke drugs in the white house,steal your identy, brake in your home,burnn churches, are you geting the pointe it sound like the ones that brealy do the thing should be ban or fixed so they cant breed  just  in case you dont get it people are the problem . it was people that made this breed




I’m not sure I follow you here.  You agree the breed has a bad reputation and say it’s because of the owners (people).  What do you suggest should be done?


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## lee hanson (Jul 12, 2010)

ya  they  get a bad rep not from being bad dogs it come from movies rap vedios news not telling the hole  story in that post when  i said ok may be they are bad i thought yall would get   i dint know i would have to brake every thing down......................i think when people do wrong they should pay for what they did people like mike  vick should have been drug behind  a truck threw town for all the things he did to those dog.. i think if you   dont keep your dog put  up and it bits  some one off your property un prevoked you should go to  jail that dogg should be put down


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## bearpugh (Jul 13, 2010)

i've never seen a pit in a movie or video that i recall. i do see them on the news tho. but thats all a conspiracy. after a kids attacked by a poodle, newscrew arrives with the stunt pit. paint on some fake blood, and start taking pics.


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## shakey gizzard (Jul 13, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> i've never seen a pit in a movie or video that i recall. i do see them on the news tho. but thats all a conspiracy. after a kids attacked by a poodle, newscrew arrives with the stunt pit. paint on some fake blood, and start taking pics.


Is'nt a stunt pit a Staffordshire?


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## K9SAR (Jul 13, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Well I admit I took the test and got the first choice wrong......But I got it right the second try.
> It is like trying to pick out the dobermann Pinsher from this mess.
> 1.
> 
> ...



1. Doberman Pinscher 
2. German Pinscher (? - if I had to guess)
3. Miniature Pinscher
4. Manchester Terrier


Not that hard...if you're a dog nerd


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 13, 2010)

.......or if you are a computer nerd and know how to right click and check the properties


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> .......or if you are a computer nerd and know how to right click and check the properties



now they wouldnt google some thing then claime to known it be for you posted it would they ..........


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## K9SAR (Jul 13, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> .......or if you are a computer nerd and know how to right click and check the properties



I guess, but it's pretty easy to tell the difference among the dogs if you have experience with Doberman Pinschers and know that people have mistaken your dog or dogs like it for another breed (or people misname them as "Miniature Dobermans.")












Kind of like people mistake this breed shown below for being a Doberman/German Shepherd mix or GSD mix:


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> i've never seen a pit in a movie or video that i recall. i do see them on the news tho. but thats all a conspiracy. after a kids attacked by a poodle, newscrew arrives with the stunt pit. paint on some fake blood, and start taking pics.



you have never seen  a pit bull in a movie you must spend a lot of time on here........i under  stand if  you haven't seen  a  rap video so google dmx ruff riders , where the hood at any  of the crap  he put out the video will have pit bull in  that where they the image they have come from . i think any one that make these  video then allows young kids or teens to watch it should be  charged  . ifell the same about  people that use the confederate flag as a  hate symbol .do you think that ever one that still fly a battle flag, bonnie blue, stars and bars ect is a racist  .cause that is what the new  and most people would have you to beleave


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

K9SAR said:


> I guess, but it's pretty easy to tell the difference among the dogs if you have mistaken your dog or dogs like it for another breed (or people misname them as "Miniature Dobermans.")experience with Doberman Pinschers and know that people have
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats the pointe most people have littel or no  experience with any breed that how apbt get misidentified


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## firemanseth3 (Jul 13, 2010)

*pitbulls*

I used to be one of those people who fell into beleiving that all pitbulls were horrible dogs and that they should all be killed. Then When i was in college i for some reason bought my first one, with the intentions of having a catch dog. He never became a catch dog because he became my baby boy. He is now 7 Years old and i Have anopther pitbull in the house as well. What i have learned over the past 7 years of pitt ownership is simply that they are the best breed of dog there is , hands down. They are the most loving, loyal, intelligent breed i have ever come across. They truly can do anything. Any person who would disagree with this is either very ignorant or has never owned one. Do you know that pitbulls are actually in the top 8% of all breeds for best temprement. Yes there are cases of pitbulls biting, but the top three dogs reported in incidents of bites/attacks are golden retreivers, chows, and labs. Pitbulls axctually came in 5th. Also there are around 18 different breeds associated as being pitbulls type, so the APBT is often confused and media sensationalized as being this horrible killer. Yes duo to there great love loyalty and drive there are people who use this in a negative way to train them to do harm to other dogs or people, doesn't mean they're a bad dog or breed though. Did you know every single one of michael vicks dogs were adopted out except one, and it had to be put down for health reasons not because of agression. Pitbulls can tend to have dog aggression but very very seldom do they have human aggresion, and so much of it depends on training and the owner. People please don't be stupid., know what you're talking about before you make ignorant statements about a breed you know nothing of


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

ThaDuck said:


> I’m not sure I follow you here.  You agree the breed has a bad reputation and say it’s because of the owners (people).  What do you suggest should be done?



i think the punishment  should fit the crime. did you know  up till  about 2  years  ago  a first time child molester  was eligible for just probation i think these people should  be tied up  and left  deep out in the swamp  the same should apply to people that hurt dogs after they lose a fight but i guess  the dog tourcher their self cause people just wouldnt don that we as  humman are  just  wondering threw a pit bull infested  danger zone  trying not to be am bushed by  them lol.......it this simple a pit bull is millone time more likely to be hurt by a humman rather then a humman by a pit can you  agree  with that......ill brake  down  what am saying is they  or way  more people that mistreat pitbulls then they are pit bull that bite people


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 13, 2010)

That looks like a dog my brother used to have. Is it a Bauceron (sp?)??? Not sure if I spelled it right.


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

firemanseth3 said:


> I used to be one of those people who fell into beleiving that all pitbulls were horrible dogs and that they should all be killed. Then When i was in college i for some reason bought my first one, with the intentions of having a catch dog. He never became a catch dog because he became my baby boy. He is now 7 Years old and i Have anopther pitbull in the house as well. What i have learned over the past 7 years of pitt ownership is simply that they are the best breed of dog there is , hands down. They are the most loving, loyal, intelligent breed i have ever come across. They truly can do anything. Any person who would disagree with this is either very ignorant or has never owned one. Do you know that pitbulls are actually in the top 8% of all breeds for best temprement. Yes there are cases of pitbulls biting, but the top three dogs reported in incidents of bites/attacks are golden retreivers, chows, and labs. Pitbulls axctually came in 5th. Also there are around 18 different breeds associated as being pitbulls type, so the APBT is often confused and media sensationalized as being this horrible killer. Yes duo to there great love loyalty and drive there are people who use this in a negative way to train them to do harm to other dogs or people, doesn't mean they're a bad dog or breed though. Did you know every single one of michael vicks dogs were adopted out except one, and it had to be put down for health reasons not because of agression. Pitbulls can tend to have dog aggression but very very seldom do they have human aggresion, and so much of it depends on training and the owner. People please don't be stupid., know what you're talking about before you make ignorant statements about a breed you know nothing of



  ........... http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

people hurt pit bulls  way more then they have ever hurt us


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## wabbithunter (Jul 13, 2010)

*News*

Hey bearpug you could have seen another one on news channel 12,3 and 9 last night and this morning.


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> Hey bearpug you could have seen another one on news channel 12,3 and 9 last night and this morning.



 There are an estimated 74.8 million owned dogs in the United States;[5] however, the number of pit bull-type dogs has not been reliably determined.[6] Animal shelters in the United States euthanized approximately 1.7 million dogs in 2008; approximately 980,000, or 58 percent of these were assessed to have been pit bull-type dogs      do the math if all those dogs died how many are left ad those two to gether then think of how many atacks you hear of. the good far out way the bad


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## wabbithunter (Jul 13, 2010)

Lee I didn't say why it was on the news.But you automaticly think its about a pit attacking some one.And you want to talk about others  giveing them a bad rep.It was my buddys dog following him and his horse in the wagon train parade they have down town every year in Chatsworth.


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> Lee I didn't say why it was on the news.But you automaticly think its about a pit attacking some one.And you want to talk about others  giveing them a bad rep.It was my buddys dog following him and his horse in the wagon train parade they have down town every year in Chatsworth.



ya because most people have enough  respect for others to i m there person conversation and not post them on other  people post now i see what you are all bout  you don't care about the topic  you just want to argue  it may be  a good thing  for all that  you don't like this breed based off what i have learn on here about you  your dog would surly  be doomed  this is based off your self righteous attitude


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## wabbithunter (Jul 13, 2010)

Lol I haven't had a personal converson with any one on here.why did you say that?All I really wanted to know is why you automaticly thought it was about a apbt attack.Could it because even you know they are pron too.


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## bearpugh (Jul 13, 2010)

your free to do as you please. i speak from life experiences not just news and hearsay. these dogs are like carrying a gun. they require certain care. if you don't see it your a fool. just like my friend in the earlier story. there was nothing he ever did wrong to that animal. never mistreated in any way. but it happened. you only get 1 chance to be wrong at this. in your avatar i see 2 beautiful children. could you ever forgive yourself if they were hurt. i'm not saying no one should have them. but they require extra care and diligence. same goes for several large breeds. i've also  had run ins with rotts, german sheps,and bulldogs. lots of breeds are meaner, but when these breeds lose it you can't stop them. too big and powerful. granted, my overweight bassett is pretty intimidating.lol


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## K9SAR (Jul 13, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> That looks like a dog my brother used to have. Is it a Bauceron (sp?)??? Not sure if I spelled it right.



Yeah - it's a Beauceron.


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## Scolopax (Jul 13, 2010)

my vote for thread of the year!


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

wabbithunter said:


> Lol I haven't had a personal converson with any one on here.why did you say that?All I really wanted to know is why you automaticly thought it was about a apbt attack.Could it because even you know they are pron too.



because  all threw this post people refer to the new then  you bring the news am sure no one else had aclue as to what you was talking about


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> your free to do as you please. i speak from life experiences not just news and hearsay. these dogs are like carrying a gun. they require certain care. if you don't see it your a fool. just like my friend in the earlier story. there was nothing he ever did wrong to that animal. never mistreated in any way. but it happened. you only get 1 chance to be wrong at this. in your avatar i see 2 beautiful children. could you ever forgive yourself if they were hurt. i'm not saying no one should have them. but they require extra care and diligence. same goes for several large breeds. i've also  had run ins with rotts, german sheps,and bulldogs. lots of breeds are meaner, but when these breeds lose it you can't stop them. too big and powerful. granted, my overweight bassett is pretty intimidating.lol


 i grew up in the stick an  have had  a lot of pets  all types of dogs i have seen good hores just lose their mind[snap] and throw  people for no reason,  we have labs that bit people , a husky that goy me and the insuance  man my kids are as safe with my dog


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

the news have shown  a lot of bad officers  in the past 2 years .for everything from child porno,selling drug out of their police cars,o  ya they killed an old black lady then lied to cover it up.guess all them are bad to..... the fact is there is good and bad in every thing people, dogs ect but genetics have nothing to do with it  so far no one  has  shown me one single study that  saids that pit bull are any more dangerous then any other breed due solely to their breed but i have shown y'all study that support my claim that a dog is a dog


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.

Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.

The action in Alabama was brought by the Washington Animal Foundation (WAF) against the city of Huntsville, which had claimed that American Pit BullTerriers were genetically dangerous.

The case centered on four pit bulls held in an animal shelter and adopted by three local women. The dogs were survivors of a group of over 50 pit bulls seized in a raid on a dog-fighting ring in April 2000. Half of the dogs died from injuries or disease, whilst the remainder including four puppies - were held at the City pound and put up for adoption.

Sheila Tack, an emergency room nurse at Crestwood Hospital, adopted two of the puppies that she named Justice and Elizabeth. Whilst they remained impounded, she visited them twice a week.

The other puppies, David and Nellie, were adopted by Kay Nagel, a military officers wife and resident of Redstone Arsenal, and Loyce Fisher, a civil service worker from Cullman.

However, the City Council refused to release the dogs, stating that they were a potential danger to human beings, although none had apparently displayed any aggression. The matter was referred to court for a legal decision on the dogs' fate. During a hearing last year, lawyers representing the city, Michael Fees and Greg Burgess, told Madison County Circuit Judge Joe Battle the animals were vicious and should not be re-homed.

The women, who did not have a lawyer, argued the animals were never trained to fight and conditioning can suppress any vicious tendencies the dogs might have.

Judge Battle agreed and on Nov 13 2001, declared the four young pit bulls were not dangerous because they were never trained to fight. The court allowed the city to destroy 21 adult pit bulls which had been used for fighting.

However, the City appealed Battle's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court and asked the court for an order preventing the women from taking custody of the dogs. At this point, Seattle-based WAF became involved in the case and appointed Huntsville lawyer Mike Seibert to fight their case, based on evidence they gathered to counter the City lawyers claims that all Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous.

The foundation hired veterinarian Dr. Alan Jones of Hazel Green to examine the dogs. But the officers at the shelter do not allow anyone to have physical contact with the pit bulls, even vet Jones.

"They looked fat and happy," he said. "They seemed starved for attention and not aggressive at all"

Glen Bui, spokesman for WAF told a local newspaper that the dogs should be released.

"I believe that the City of Huntsville is wasting thousands of taxpayers' dollars attempting to destroy innocent dogs that were already given by the circuit court to the three women,' he said.

WAF filed an Amicus (third party) submitting genetic proof that Pit Bulls are not dangerous.

The city of Huntsville were backed by the extremist animal rights organization PETA that Pit Bulls were genetically dangerous, with evidence provided by veterinarians, none of whom was an expert in any specific canine or genetic field.

WAF cited case laws under Due Process of the law, and stated that it was unconstitutional to rule a specific breed of dog as dangerous in this way. They also claimed it was genocide to try to eradicate the pit bull breed.

WAF submitted evidence to the Supreme Court that they were able to provide:

1. Identification of expert treatises regarding the genetics of the breed in question

2. Testing and studies regarding genetics verses environment as the catalyst for a specific dog breed's aggression 

3. Social contributions made by the American Pit Bull Terrier (i.e. as Assistance Dogs, Search and Rescue Dogs etc.)

4. The associations brief assisted the court as it had substantial knowledge concerning the issue before the court

5.The briefs filed by the City were insufficient to adequately address the far reaching issues involving genetic breed bias

6. The Foundation read all briefs and believed that innocent pet owners and innocent pets were not represented by either brief.

WAF co-founder Glen Bui told OUR DOGS this week: "The court granted WAF's petition and allowed us seven days to file amicus curiae (disinterested adviser). Myself along with Attorney Mike Seibert worked on the amicus long hours into the night, while WAF members Kay Nagel and Sheila Tack proofread and added input. It was finished with less than one hour before the deadline to file and Sheila raced to the US post office and sent it certified mail.

"Huntsville's entire case rested on affidavits from veterinarians claiming they examined the four pit bull pups and that they would pose a danger to the community because pit bulls are genetically dangerous. They also claimed the women had no legal right to adopt the pups, this was also addressed in the amicus brief."

On Friday, August 30, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in WAFs favour and ordered that the dogs should be released for adoption, accepting the evidence but forward by WAF that no breed of dog is genetically dangerous. "This is fantastic news," said Bui. "The city could appeal against the ruling, but Id like to think theyll give way and release the dogs to their new owners so that they can enjoy a good life. Two of them will be trained as Search and Rescue Dogs; the other two will become pets. The pit bulls have been evaluated and temperament tested before they are released, they are being spayed and neutered. The city did tell the media that the dogs would be released, so lets hope they keep their word."

Bui also told OUR DOGS this week: "For years the American Pit Bull Terrier has been alleged to be dangerous because of its genetics. Never has WAF found any genetic research proving that. When we were asked by three Huntsville women for help, they told us nobody else would help them, they had contacted everyone who fights BSL. We knew the women had to face the Supreme Court and this was a very serious case. We knew we had the genetic proof that no breed of dog is dangerous.

"We knew we also had statistics which proved the APBT has one of the best temperaments out of 185 dog breeds along with a strong legal defence. Being aware that never in the past had anyone ever argued the point, after contemplating the outcome if the women lost, I decided to bring WAF into the case, on the last day before the deadline for filing briefs in the Supreme Court WAF petitioned for Amicus Curiae.

"This case set a standard for future cases concerning BSL and genetics. We put several years of research into genetics and due process. We will use the statistics in Ohio; we have received assistance from state agencies in Ohio to investigate the Lucas County Dog Warden rulings on BSL in that State, as Ohio is totally BSL-controlled. Dog owners in Ohio really could use support right now. "It was a long battle and now we have proved the American Pit Bull terrier is not genetically dangerous


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## bearpugh (Jul 13, 2010)

since you know everything and refuse to listen to anyone, maybe stop starting threads just to simply argue. i'm done.


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

i dont want to argue i have listen to ever thing yall have said.its not my fault the only thing any one can show is a few bad cases not a bad breed


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## K9SAR (Jul 13, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> Good News from Ala. Supreme Court........... BREED SPECIFIC Legislation (BSL) was dealt a savage blow last week in an historic victory for American campaigners when the Supreme Court in Alabama ruled that there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.



I don't know if you remember or not, but you've posted this already.  If not in this thread, then one of the others (?)


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> show me one fact that supports your claim that my breed is more unstable  untrustworthy  are less  of  a family pet than your dog or any dog but i don't want what news told are this mama said stuff i want fact from a good kennel club  are some that can back up there research come on lets see it



this is the oregnal post


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## bearpugh (Jul 13, 2010)

over 160 posts in your last pit argument thread here.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=546890&highlight=


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## lee hanson (Jul 13, 2010)

i want every one to know that even  if i dont agree  with you. i respect   your opinion's and your  right to chose what breed is best for you and/or your family.i now that every breed is not for every one


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## shakey gizzard (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you!


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## lee hanson (Jul 14, 2010)

Life through a Pit Bull’s Eyes
You breed me to be strong,
Now you think you were wrong.
I am man's best friend, 
Now you want me to meet my end.
I live to protect the ones that I love,
I'm the best of my breed a step above.
I'm as good as you raise me to be,
I was not born evil can't you see. 
I come in different shapes, sizes, and colors,
I'm here to serve my master just like all the others.
My master loves me as if one of their own, 
When I walk by there side or fetch a bone.
Here is a little history about my kind,
Always keep these facts in the back of your mind.
I lived in the white house with a President named Teddy,
During the 1st World War, I was an American symbol can’t you see.
Sgt. Stubby was the most decorated war dog and this is no lie.
I even lived with the little Rascles once upon a time,
I’ve lived with the brightest man ever known,
Thomas Edison he created the light bulb,
Now that I’ve given you some history about my kind,
Let me get back to what’s been on my mind.
I feel for people, who have been attacked,
But you can't put all the blame on my back. 
For I'm a creature put on God's great earth,
No knowledge of love or hate before my birth.
Why do you blame us all for a few bad ones? 
Do you hate your children because of a few bad sons?
One day I hope you’ll realize,
For it’s you that has hate in your eyes.
It’s not up to you to wipe out a breed,
For only God has the power to do that deed.
So just remember as I run along,
It’s not my breed, but your perception that’s all wrong


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## Scolopax (Jul 14, 2010)

that just brought a tear to my eye....


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## Nerf Warrior (Jul 14, 2010)

Ive been a medic on an ambulance now for 17 yrs and have treated numerous dog bites.  With the majority of the bites I can treat the victim with band aids and have them follow up with a Dr.  With bites from a pit (and Ive had several) they all required hospitalization for reconstruction.  I thought about this thread 3 days ago when we transferred a 7 yr old to a childrens hospital for surgery due to  severe abdominal injury from an attack from neighbors pit..


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## K9SAR (Jul 14, 2010)

Great.  Just when I thought this thread had died.  *sigh*


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## lee hanson (Jul 14, 2010)

Nerf Warrior said:


> Ive been a medic on an ambulance now for 17 yrs and have treated numerous dog bites.  With the majority of the bites I can treat the victim with band aids and have them follow up with a Dr.  With bites from a pit (and Ive had several) they all required hospitalization for reconstruction.  I thought about this thread 3 days ago when we transferred a 7 yr old to a childrens hospital for surgery due to  severe abdominal injury from an attack from neighbors pit..



here look at these dog and tell me  wich dog look like the one that atacked that person each dog has a number plz post the number so we can all see ..  http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## Nerf Warrior (Jul 14, 2010)

K9SAR said:


> Great.  Just when I thought this thread had died.  *sigh*


LOL....sorry


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## dawg2 (Jul 14, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> here look at these dog and tell me  wich dog look like the one that atacked that person each dog has a number plz post the number so we can all see ..  http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html



holy cow....dude EVERYONE HAS THE LINK


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 14, 2010)

dawg2 said:


> holy cow....dude EVERYONE HAS THE LINK


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## lee hanson (Jul 14, 2010)

if  you don't like the  post why do you open it. you already know what you are going to read petty much so do just pick on me much like you do the pit bulls???????????? the emt  made a statement i asked a question that's how this thing works. so what is the problem .if some  thing come on tv you don't like you turn the Chanel   you  just sit there an watch the show an come plainer a bout whats on you don't turn the Chanel then come right back  so if you don't like this post why do you return???????is because of what i said before you just like to pick on the under  dog it doesn't mater if it a person or dog as long as it a under dog you  are game for picking on them...even thou i strongly disagree with some of you i  have shown yall respect why is it hard for y'all to do the same i thought this was gon  i thought there would  alot of ga folks aka southern people that  where raised to treat other the way they wanted to  be treated........


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## lee hanson (Jul 14, 2010)

Nerf Warrior said:


> Ive been a medic on an ambulance now for 17 yrs and have treated numerous dog bites.  With the majority of the bites I can treat the victim with band aids and have them follow up with a Dr.  With bites from a pit (and Ive had several) they all required hospitalization for reconstruction.  I thought about this thread 3 days ago when we transferred a 7 yr old to a childrens hospital for surgery due to  severe abdominal injury from an attack from neighbors pit..



did you see the dog  your self  or where you told it was a pit...........and when you say pit do you mean one  of the 20 breed consider to a pitbull type breed as listed in (bsl) or do you mean a true apbt do you  you even know the difference the  large number of breeds called pits as to true apbt after looking at that link can you see how the can and do get misidentified


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## SouthernBeagles (Jul 14, 2010)

Easy Lee. All he is saying is you already posted that link several times already. You seem to want to indicate that every time someone says there is a pit bull attack that it is a mistaken identity and you want to try to make your point by posting that link with all of those pictures where the secrete pit bull doesn't even have his ears or tail docked and mix it in with a bunch of short haired muscled dogs! 
Maybe we have this all wrong....or maybe you are in denial??
Nobody is picking on you as a person and like I said before, I admire your passion for your breed. God knows I have gotten into MY share of debates defending my beloved beagles and the hunting style I prefer......yeah there are fast, med, slow, super slow beagles in all different colors and there is always someone out there thinking if you don't like what they like, you are just stupid and wrong. It isn't always easy hearing negetive about something you care so much about but you have to take it just like you give it. Didn't you call me a smarty pants a few posts back??


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## bearpugh (Jul 14, 2010)

i swear, if i read one more pit bull poem! geez.


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## Nerf Warrior (Jul 14, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> if  you don't like the  post why do you open it. you already know what you are going to read petty much so do just pick on me much like you do the pit bulls???????????? the emt  made a statement i asked a question that's how this thing works. so what is the problem .if some  thing come on tv you don't like you turn the Chanel   you  just sit there an watch the show an come plainer a bout whats on you don't turn the Chanel then come right back  so if you don't like this post why do you return???????is because of what i said before you just like to pick on the under  dog it doesn't mater if it a person or dog as long as it a under dog you  are game for picking on them...even thou i strongly disagree with some of you i  have shown yall respect why is it hard for y'all to do the same i thought this was gon  i thought there would  alot of ga folks aka southern people that  where raised to treat other the way they wanted to  be treated........


You never ask me a question.  You pm'd me with the same link that has been posted numerous times thru this thread.  But for your satisfaction or dissatisfaction (whichever way you take it) My brother raised pits for a number of years so I am familiar with the breed and I dont need to go around taking test to prove any kind of point.  As for as the maulings I referred to,  I dont care if it was a poodle,  if the folks say it was a pit then as for as Im concerned it was a pit.  The one a couple of months ago that attacked the 63 year old neighbor lady, I saw the 3 dogs (pits).  Fire dept was holding them at bay with water hoses so we could gain access to the victim.  All the way to the hospital she kept asking, why did she (the dog)do that she has always been so sweet.   Had to reattach the ladies calf muscle.  All three dogs were dispatched at the scene.   Not saying that pits attack any more frequently than any other breed but more times than not the damage is much more devastating.   As Forest Gump says "Thats all I got to say about that".


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Easy Lee. All he is saying is you already posted that link several times already. You seem to want to indicate that every time someone says there is a pit bull attack that it is a mistaken identity and you want to try to make your point by posting that link with all of those pictures where the secrete pit bull doesn't even have his ears or tail docked and mix it in with a bunch of short haired muscled dogs!
> Maybe we have this all wrong....or maybe you are in denial??
> Nobody is picking on you as a person and like I said before, I admire your passion for your breed. God knows I have gotten into MY share of debates defending my beloved beagles and the hunting style I prefer......yeah there are fast, med, slow, super slow beagles in all different colors and there is always someone out there thinking if you don't like what they like, you are just stupid and wrong. It isn't always easy hearing negetive about something you care so much about but you have to take it just like you give it. Didn't you call me a smarty pants a few posts back?? [/QUO  i neve said wernt some bad pit bulls i know ther are just as ther are bad dogs in every breed


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

SouthernBeagles said:


> Easy Lee. All he is saying is you already posted that link several times already. You seem to want to indicate that every time someone says there is a pit bull attack that it is a mistaken identity and you want to try to make your point by posting that link with all of those pictures where the secrete pit bull doesn't even have his ears or tail docked and mix it in with a bunch of short haired muscled dogs!
> Maybe we have this all wrong....or maybe you are in denial??
> Nobody is picking on you as a person and like I said before, I admire your passion for your breed. God knows I have gotten into MY share of debates defending my beloved beagles and the hunting style I prefer......yeah there are fast, med, slow, super slow beagles in all different colors and there is always someone out there thinking if you don't like what they like, you are just stupid and wrong. It isn't always easy hearing negetive about something you care so much about but you have to take it just like you give it. Didn't you call me a smarty pants a few posts back?? [/QUOTE                i know all breed   have some bad  apples even mine i just know that the good ones far out way the bad ones...........and it don't bother me near as much when people say they don't like my dogs as it does when people come complaining about my like i force it on them if you don't like it are don't want to read it simply don't open it that's all am saying


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

AND NOT ALL PIT BULL HAVE THEIR EARS DONE MOST OF MINE DONT AND NONE OF THEM ARE SHOULD HAVE THEIR  TAIL DOCKED THAT WOULD NOT BE A CORRECT DOG WITH ANY KENNEL CLUB THE EAR  ARE optional it doesn add or  take a way


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

ANIMAL VICTIMS / HUMAN VICTIMS: REPORTS FROM POLICE CASE FILES

Russell Weston Jr., tortured and killed 12 cats: burned and cut off their tails, paws, ears; poured toxic chemicals in their eyes to blind them; forced them to ingest poison, hung them from trees (the noose loose enough to create a slow and painful death.) Later killed 2 officers at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, DC.

Jeffery Dahmer staked cats to trees and decapitated dogs. Later he dissected boys, and kept their body parts in the refrigerator. Murdered 17 men.

Kip Kinkle shot 25 classmates and killed several in Springfield, Oregon. He killed his father and mother. Said he blew up a cow once. Set a live cat on fire and dragged the innocent creature through the main street of town. 
Classmates rated him as "Most Likely to Start World War 3."

As a boy, Albert De Salvo, the "Boston Strangler," placed a dog and cat in a crate with a partition between them. After starving the animals for days, he removed the partition to watch them kill each other. He raped and killed 13 women by strangulation. He often posed bodies in a shocking manner after their murders.

Richard Allen Davis set numerous cats on fire. He killed all of Polly Klaus' animals before abducting and murdering Polly Klaus, aged 12, from her bedroom.

11-year-old Andrew Golden and 13-year-old Mitchell Johnson tortured and killed dogs. On March 24, 1998, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, Golden and Johnson shot and killed 4 students and 1 teacher during a fire drill at their school.

After 16-year-old Luke Woodham mortally stabbed his mother, killed 2 classmates and shot 7 others, he confessed to bludgeoning his dog Sparkle with baseball bats and pouring liquid fuel down her throat and to set fire 
to her neck. "I made my first kill today," he wrote in his court-subpoenaed journal. "It was a loved one...I'll never forget the howl she made. It sounded almost human." In June 1998, Woodham was found guilty of 3 murders and 7 counts of aggravated assault. He was sentenced to 3 life sentences and an additional 20 years for each assault.

Theodore Robert Bundy, executed in 1989 for at least 50 murders, was forced to witness a grandfather who tortured animals. Bundy later heaped graves with animal bones.

At 4-years-old, Michael Cartier dislocated the legs of rabbits and hurled a kitten through a closed window. He later shot Kristin Lardner 3 times in the head, before shooting himself.

Henry Lee Lucas killed numerous animals and had sex with their corpses. He killed his mother, common law wife, and an unknown number of people.

Edward Kemperer cut up 2 cats. He later killed his grandparents, mother and 7 other women.

Richard Speck threw a bird into a ventilator fan. Killed 8 women. 

Randy Roth taped a cat to a car's engine and used an industrial sander on a frog. Killed 2 of his wives and attempted to kill a third.

David Richard Davis shot and killed 2 healthy ponies, threw a wine bottle at a pair of kittens and hunted with illegal methods. Murdered his wife, Shannon Mohr Davis, for insurance money.

Peter Kurten, the Dusseldorf Monster, tortured dogs, and practiced bestiality while killing animals. Murdered or attempted to murder over 50 men, women and children.

Richard Trenton Chase, "The Vampire Killer of Sacramento," bit the heads off birds, drained animals for their blood, killed animals for their organs, and later killed 6 people in random attacks. One police officer present at 
the scene of the first murder, confessed to having nightmares about the crime for months afterwards.

"The Kobe Killer", an as yet unnamed 15-year-old boy in Japan, beheaded a cat and strangled several pigeons. Decapitated 11-year-old Jun Hase, and battered to death a 10-year-old girl with a hammer, and assaulted 3 other 
children in separate attacks.

Richard William Leonard's grandmother forced him to kill and mutilate cats and kittens when he was a child. He later killed Stephen Dempsey with a bow and arrow. He also killed Ezzedine Bahmad by slashing his throat.

Tom Dillion murdered people's pets. He shot and killed Jamie Paxton, aged 21; Claude Hawkins, aged 49; Donald Welling, aged 35; Kevin Loring, aged 30; and Gary Bradely, aged 44.

At 9-years-old, Eric Smith strangled a neighbor's cat. At 13, he bludgeoned 4- year-old Derrick Robie to death. Smith lured the little boy into the woods, choked him, sodomized him with a stick, then beat him to death with a 
rock.

David Berkowitz, "Son of Sam," poisoned his mother's parakeet out of jealousy. He later shot 13 young men and women. 6 people died and at least 2 suffered permanent disabilities.

Arthur Shawcross repeatedly threw a kitten into a lake until the kitten drowned from exhaustion. Killed a young girl. After serving 15-1/2 years in prison, he killed 11 more women.

Michael Perry decapitated a neighbor's dog. Later killed his parents, infant nephew and 2 neighbors.

Jason Massey's killing resume began with cats and dogs; at 20 he decapitated and disemboweled a 13-year-old girl and fatally shot a 14-year old boy. He claims to have killed 37 cats, 29 dogs and 6 cows.

Patrick Sherrill stole neighborhood pets, tethered them with baling wire and encouraged his dog to mutilate them. He killed 14 co-workers and himself in 1986.

Keith Hunter Jesperson, "Happy Face Killer," bashed gopher heads and beat, strangled and shot stray cats and dogs. He is known to have strangled 8 women. He said: "You're actually squeezing the life out of these animals...Choking a human being or a cat--it's the same feeling...I'm the very end result of what happens when somebody kills an animal at an early age."

Carroll Edward Cole, executed in 1985 for an alleged 35 murders and reputed to be one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history, confessed that his first act of violence was to strangle a puppy under the porch of his house.

Robert Alton Harris murdered two 16-year-old boys, doused a neighbor with lighter fluid and tossed matches at him. His initial run-in with police was for killing neighborhood cats.

    how would you like it if we was judged but other of are kind in sted of being judged inadvisedly by our onw atcion......


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

bearpugh said:


> i swear, if i read one more pit bull poem! geez.



why do the poems bother you


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## bigtall (Jul 15, 2010)

"how would you like it if we was judged but other of are kind in sted of being judged inadvisedly by our onw atcion......"

This thread has gone from apathetic to down right dumb. Ya'll have fun.


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

the  thing is people cant handel the truth and the  truth is thier some bed pitbulls  but people are the monster in this world


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Jul 15, 2010)

And you know everything, you just cant spell it where anyone else can read it......so how will we ever know the truth, oh and dont pm.... say it where everyone can try to help me decipher what your actually trying to say.  Actually, dont even worry about writing back, it takes 15 mins just to figure out what the heck you meant, and thats more time that I'm willing to waste......


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> And you know everything, you just cant spell it where anyone else can read it......so how will we ever know the truth, oh and dont pm.... say it where everyone can try to help me decipher what your actually trying to say.  Actually, dont even worry about writing back, it takes 15 mins just to figure out what the heck you meant, and thats more time that I'm willing to waste......



i think you know what you can do


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

A spirited Pit Bull
Shares my days,
And makes my life complete.
Intelligent and protective,
Yet affectionate and sweet.

A strong willed dog,
So fast and quick-
With courage and self pride.
I can’t imagine life without 
My Pit Bull by my side.

Active and adventurous,
A dog that loves to play-
My Pit Bull puts the sunshine
Into each and every day.


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## bearpugh (Jul 15, 2010)

you what to do? who


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## Scolopax (Jul 15, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> A spirited Pit Bull
> Shares my days,
> And makes my life complete.
> Intelligent and protective,
> ...



and here I was thinking those trophies were for dog shows....you never told us you won those in a poetry fair!

save your time on the PM...I still can't figure the last one out.......


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

Helen Keller (Pit Bull Named - Sir Thomas)
Anthony Robbins
Molly Price (Actress)
General George Patton
Jan Michael Vincent
Fred Astaire
Stephany Kramer
President Woodrow Wilson
Pink (the singer)
Ashley Olsen
Jan Michael Vincent
Alicia Silverstone
Humphrey Bogart
Ananda Lewis
Linda Blair 
John Steinbeck
Fatty Arbuckle
Malcolm - Jamal Warner
Mary Tyler Moore
Steve & Terri Irwin (Pit Bull Named - Sui)
Mo Vaughn (NY Mets)
James Ellroy (Author)
Amy Jo Johnson (Actress)
Jack Johnson (Hawaiian singer)
Sinbad
Barbra Eden
Rosie Perez
Kelli Williams (Actress from The Practice)
AJ Mclean
Rachel Ray (from Food Network) (Pit Bull Named - Isaboo)
Orlando Bloom
James Caan
Shaquille "Shaq" O'Neal
Judd Nelson
Barbara Eden
Veronica Mars
Walter Scott (Author)
Ken Howard (Father in Crossing Jordon - his Pit Shadow saved his life)
Usher (Singer)
Michael J. Fox
Thomas Edison
Mel Brooks & Anne Brancroft
Julian schnabel
Jessica Alba
John Stuart
Jesse James and (Pit Bull Named - Cisco)
Stephan Jenkins (Singer)
Madonna
Jack Dempsey
Brad Pitt
Theodore Roosevelt
Bernadette Peters
Stephan Jenkins
Tamika Dixon (Athlete)
Singer Rick Springfield
Actor Vin Diesel
Barbra Ede
Cassandra Creech
Sir Walter Scott (Poet)
Shannon Elizabeth
Earl Holliman
David Spade
Robert Ferguson (Green Bay Packer)
John Stewart (from the Daily Show)
Bill Berloni (Broadway show dog trainer who has said that the Pit is the breed of choice for training),
Roy Jones Jr.
Serena Williams
Justin Miller
Cozy Coleman
Veron Haynes
Hugh Douglas
Kamal
Jermaine Dupri
Richard "Rip" Hamilton
50 Cent
Young Buck
Lloyd Banks
Jordan Babineaux
Jonathan Babineaux
Maurice White
Andrew Vachss
Ira Glass
Rosie Perez
Kelli Williams
Judd Nelson
Thomas Edison
Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft
Julian Schnabel
Stephan Jenkins
Jon Stewart
Tamika Dixon

Well known sports figures who own Pit Bulls include:

Tennis Star Serena Williams (Pit bulls Name - Bambi)
Professional Basketball Players Desmond Mason (Pit Bulls Named - Zane & Capone)
Rashard Lewis (Pit Bull Named - Cookie, Angel & Ginger)
Amare Stoudemire (Pit Bull Names - JT, Ace & Deuce)
Alton Ford (Pit Bull Names - Mischif, Rosy, Spicey, Diable +3 pups with names unknown)
Tamika Dixon and Mo Vaughn....................................................................................................................................................                  this is  list of  some famous people that on pit bulls


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## Scolopax (Jul 15, 2010)

oh....well if Michael J. Fox owned one then they certainly must just be misunderstood!

Didn't see that old Falcons quarterback on the list...what was his name again???


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

Facts and Myths
Fact (fakt)
  1.) A concept whose truth can be proved.
  2.) A statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has        happened.

Myth (mith)
  1.) An invented story, fictitious person, etc.
  2.) A belief or set of beliefs, often unproven or false, that have accrued around a person,        phenomena orinstitution


Fact
Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs. The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California. Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard - working Search - and - Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California. They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff. In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Fact
Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull. He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

Fact
There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including: Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.

Fact
Pit Bulls are heroes! America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House. The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four - year - old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida. Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Fact
Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!


Don't Some Dogs Have Aggressive Temperaments?
"Aggression is a Behavior, not a Temperament."


Will a Pit Bull that Shows aggression towards other animals go after People next?
No. Aggression towards other animals and human aggression are two totally different things. We've heard this frightened quote, "He went after a dog (or cat) and our kids might be next!" This is one big MONSTER of a myth that has generated a host of damaging anti - Pit Bull hysteria. It is perfectly 'normal' for a Pit Bull to be wonderfully affectionate and friendly with people, while at the same time not 100% trustworthy around other dogs. Like any breed of dog that we see in family homes today, a properly raised, well socialized, responsibly owned Pit Bull should never be human aggressive. Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.

Many people like to throw around the terms "good" and "bad" temperaments, but these labels are meaningless. A dog of so-called "good" temperament could easily become aggressive if abused or neglected. Dogs labeled as having "bad" temperaments are routinely rehabilitated by experienced, successful trainers. Labels like "good" and "bad" truly are meaningless, in that they are wholly relative to the environment in which the dog is kept.

Doesn't playing tug-o-war or any tugging or pulling activity make Pit Bulls aggressive?
No! It's actually fun for Pit Bulls. But if you're going to play with them like that you should invest in softer materials, such as soft ropes for tug-o-war or burlap sacks for a spring pole that way its a lot easier on your dog's teeth. They don't do it to be aggressive, they do it because they're very playful and fun loving animals and they always want to play. It's also a leftover trait from when they used to work on farms. Grabbing onto bulls' noses as a butcher's dog. Pulling and tugging games allow them to exercise this trait while having fun and conditioning while doing it.

If a Pit Bull has scars does that mean he/she has been fought?
No! Pit Bulls are active dogs that, like kids, can do stuff that can get them hurt. Like chasing animals into bushes or trees. The point is that Pit Bulls can get scratched just as easily as a kid can playing around. So before you go assuming that all dogs with scars have been fought, just remember accidents do happen.

Myth
Pit Bulls are Mean and Vicious.
No more vicious than golden retrievers, beagles or other popular dogs! In a recent study of 122 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Association (ATT), APBTs achieved a passing rate of 81.7%. That's as good or better than beagles (78.7%), and golden retrievers (81.1%). In these tests, a dog is put through a series of confrontational situations. Any sign of panic or aggression leads to failure of the test. The achievement of the APBTs in this study disproves once and for all the old tired belief that pit bulls are inherently aggressive to people.

Myth
Are Pit Bulls aggressive towards other dogs in general?
The short answer is no. Developed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, most Pit Bulls are dog aggressive, At least to some degree. Some Pit Bulls will simply not tolerate any other dogs, regardless of sex. Some Pit Bulls will remain dog friendly their entire lives. Other Pit Bulls are at least same sex aggressive and as adults will not do well with other dogs of the same sex or those that are "pushy" with them, although as pups they may get along fine (this can be very misleading to a novice Pit Bull owner). Pit bulls will commonly start developing signs of dog aggression between the ages of 8 months and 2 years, although it can develop at any age and can come on either gradually or quite suddenly. It is important to note that many pit bulls do not display the "typical" signs of dog aggression before a fight. They may not growl, bark, or posture at all, but simply alert and raise up on their toes. Owners of dog aggressive Pit Bulls learn to "read" their dogs and recognize the subtle signs indicating impending dog aggression. Training will not eliminate dog aggression in the Pit Bull but, when combined with responsibility and vigilance, training can bring these natural tendencies under control in on-leash situations. Where housemates are concerned, if one is a Pit Bull, extra care should be taken to prevent tension over food, desirable treats (like bones), and favored toys. These items are often "triggers" for spats or fights between dogs sharing the same house and owners should be very aware of them. This is also the reason that an adult Pit Bull should NOT be left alone with housemates or other dogs. Due to their fighting heritage, many Pit Bulls do not recognize signs of submission given by a dog they are fighting and, if they are unsupervised, the results can be disastrous. It should be noted that many breeds have dog aggressive tendencies, and leaving any such breed unsupervised with another dog, especially a dog of the same sex, can lead to a tragedy. Although you should never leave any dogs alone together no matter the breed. A fight can break out between any dog breed.

Myth
The only people that own Pit Bulls are criminals, and the only thing the breed is good for is dog fighting.
The majority of Pit Bulls are owned by normal dog - loving folk. Pit Bulls are kept as companions; they're used as working dogs involved in search and rescue, therapy, and police service; they compete in obedience, conformation, agility, tracking, and schutzhund; the list goes on and on. Plus, although pit fighting was the main activity the breed was originally created for and involved in, there were also many other functions the breed was used for during it's development. This breed is truly a jack - of - all - trades.

Myth
Pit Bulls have locking jaws.
There is nothing about a Pit Bull's jaws that would physiologically distinguish them from the jaws of any other breed. The breed's jaws can't lock any more than a Poodles can. In fact, there is no animal -- domestic or wild -- with jaw - locking capability. Pit Bulls do have a lot of jaw-strength, however.

Myth
Pit Bulls can hold on with their front teeth while chewing with their back teeth.
Another physical impossibility. Pit Bull jaws are constructed in the same way any other breed's jaws are.

Myth
All Pit Bulls are vicious or born mean.
No one breed as a whole is bad, the same as no one race of humans is bad. Much has to do with the individual, it's genes, upbringing, and training. In the case of Pit Bulls, a breed that was created to be especially gentle with people, all of the human aggressive dogs are victims of one or more of the following: poor breeding, bad training, or irresponsible upbringing. There are thousands upon thousands of Pit Bulls that are loving, loyal, safe pets, who will live and die without ever having bitten a human. They are the proof that this "born bad" idea is fiction, pure and simple.


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## bearpugh (Jul 15, 2010)

spending way too much time spooning with your dog.


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## wabbithunter (Jul 15, 2010)

*Pits*

A list of people that have been hurt by them would not fit on here.


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

ok yall don't like them. i  just ask yall to show me 1 study done by or back by a creditable group or specialist. you have failed to prove thay are more dangerous then other breeds......... i  fully under stand you fill they are dangerous  and am ok  with  that.this  is the  usa you are entitled to be  wrong if you choose to be .  i have supplied you  with Meany  of study that support my claim that dogs  are equally dangerous  ever thing  i have given has been supported by every kennel club........the supreme court of Meany states......national temperament testing society.........ect so that pretty much  clears every thing...........facts are facts .......and myths are myths


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

Scolopax said:


> oh....well if Michael J. Fox owned one then they certainly must just be misunderstood!
> 
> Didn't see that old Falcons quarterback on the list...what was his name again???



hey why dont you look up how meany pit bulls have  lived in the white house..........................................................       Fact (fakt)
  1.) A concept whose truth can be proved.
  2.) A statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has        happened.

Myth (mith)
  1.) An invented story, fictitious person, etc.
  2.) A belief or set of beliefs, often unproven or false, that have accrued around a person,        phenomena orinstitution


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## vonnick52 (Jul 15, 2010)

You realize you aren't helping the "Pitbull Cause" by acting incoherent and sounding like a broken record, right?  No one takes you seriously because of your lack of grammar, punctuation, spelling, and logic....


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## lee hanson (Jul 15, 2010)

vonnick52 said:


> You realize you aren't helping the "Pitbull Cause" by acting incoherent and sounding like a broken record, right?  No one takes you seriously because of your lack of grammar, punctuation, spelling, and logic....



hey i dint do the study.  i think every one has had plenty off time to show me some research that states  pit bulls are any more dangerous then a lab .   they have not  would you agree?


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## vonnick52 (Jul 15, 2010)

Wow.  I am pretty sure I am able to communicate with my curdog more effectively.  

I never said anything negative about pitbulls, I just pointed out that you aren't helping anything.  

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?


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## cgarmon001 (Jul 15, 2010)

Look here at my ferocious brittany....hear him ROAR!!!


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## Nerf Warrior (Jul 15, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> ok yall don't like them. i  just ask yall to show me 1 study done by or back by a creditable group or specialist. you have failed to prove thay are more dangerous then other breeds......... i  fully under stand you fill they are dangerous  and am ok  with  that.this  is the  usa you are entitled to be  wrong if you choose to be .  i have supplied you  with Meany  of study that support my claim that dogs  are equally dangerous  ever thing  i have given has been supported by every kennel club........the supreme court of Meany states......national temperament testing society.........ect so that pretty much  clears every thing...........facts are facts .......and myths are myths


As I posted earlier, 17 yrs of witnessing numerous dog bites,  Pit Bull attacks required hospitalization and on several occasions reconstructive surgery.  2 of these maulings within the past 6 months, 1 in the last week.  The other dog bites were treated at the ER and sent home.  I did have a run in with a Doberman once.  A man cut his foot off with a lawn mower and we tried to retrieve the foot for possible reattachment but the dog got it and we chased him for a long time before we were able to get the guys foot.  (guess he thought we were playing football...sorry)  Anyway I dont need any more of your statistics cut and pasted on here to tell me the experiences Ive had with Pit Bulls were just misunderstandings.   And to answer your question earlier,  yes on most of the occasions I did visualize the dog.  This one this week no I didnt.  The 63 yr old a few months ago yes.  The owner was a breeder and these dogs were registered APBT..


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## NGaHunter (Jul 15, 2010)

lee hanson said:


> hey i dint do the study.  i think every one has had plenty off time to show me some research that states  pit bulls are any more dangerous then a lab .   they have not  would you agree?



Well here it is from your own website...ATTS
Breed Name 	           Tested 	Passed 	Failed 	Percent

LABRADOR RETRIEVER	763 	   704	  59	          92.3%

Breed Name 	           Tested 	Passed 	Failed 	Percent

AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER	772 	664	108	86.0%

So if I read the website that YOU keep asking people to go look at, out of the 700 and some of each tested, the PIT had 49 more than the Lab that Failed.  Looks like they are more dangerous that the lab.  Now can we let this thread die


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