# Ancient man



## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jun 24, 2017)

we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?


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## welderguy (Jun 24, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



KILLER BOOTS MAN !!!!!




curious...does your back itch alot. 
btw, I'm pretty sure you badly misspelled neanderthal.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 24, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



Adam


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## centerpin fan (Jun 24, 2017)

welderguy said:


> KILLER BOOTS MAN !!!!!



Hat tip to any "Dumb and Dumber" reference.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 24, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Hat tip to any "Dumb and Dumber" reference.



You have a photographic memory maybe... awesome.


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## centerpin fan (Jun 24, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> Who was created in God's image?



Ric Flair

Woooooooo!


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## welderguy (Jun 24, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Hat tip to any "Dumb and Dumber" reference.




Yeah I actually thought of you when I wrote that, wishing I knew how to embed a video clip of it.


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## centerpin fan (Jun 24, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> You have a photographic memory maybe... awesome.



We all have our gifts.


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## centerpin fan (Jun 24, 2017)

welderguy said:


> Yeah I actually thought of you when I wrote that, wishing I knew how to embed a video clip of it.



I am honored.  

Embedding is not hard.  Below the video, you'll see an option to "share".  Just click on "embed", copy the code, and paste into your reply.


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## welderguy (Jun 24, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> I am honored.
> 
> Embedding is not hard.  Below the video, you'll see an option to "share".  Just click on "embed", copy the code, and paste into your reply.



Thanks CPF.

fixed it.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 24, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



WE were.  What else do you need to know, because the implications of that are staggering.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 24, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> Ric Flair
> 
> Woooooooo!




The wrasler?


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 24, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Adam



Was Adam chosen from the present stock of humans to begin the Jewish lineage? Perhaps chosen to be the first in "covenant" with God?

If so this leads me to believe a whole bunch of Gentiles living in the Americas etc., were not in covenant with God.

This could also explain why the whole world was not flooded. God needed only to punish/destroy those who were under a covenant with him.


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## kmckinnie (Jun 24, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



Neanderthal man  

 Scientists say that a great percent of the world has Neanderthal DNA


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## hobbs27 (Jun 24, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> Was Adam chosen from the present stock of humans to begin the Jewish lineage? Perhaps chosen to be the first in "covenant" with God?
> 
> If so this leads me to believe a whole bunch of Gentiles living in the Americas etc., were not in covenant with God.
> 
> This could also explain why the whole world was not flooded. God needed only to punish/destroy those who were under a covenant with him.




Yes,  I think so.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 24, 2017)

SemperFiDawg said:


> WE were.  What else do you need to know, because the implications of that are staggering.



Did all of "we" have souls? Considering that "we" did, and that the only way to God is through Jesus, and the only way to Jesus is from God, would you agree with this from the Catholic Church?

"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."

Let's say that somehow people wandered away from Adam who had a covenant with God and became Gentiles or that Adam was a Gentile and his ancestors were not under covenant. Perhaps the lineage before or not related to Abraham.

Was there ever a man born without a soul? Was Neanderthal from Adam and therefore under covenant? Perhaps knowing God by his creation and therefore since he knew God he knew Jesus. His salvation would have been based on knowing the promise of Jesus. Yet he didn't know of Jesus because his ancestors lost the knowledge given to Adam? Assuming Adam knew of the promise of Jesus. I would think he did since the Word was with God. 

Unless Neanderthal wasn't from Adam and was just a closely DNA related  animal like a chimp. 

I'm just trying to tie all of this together or maybe separating it from each other. Perhaps maybe we're not all from Adam. Maybe Neanderthal wasn't.
Maybe Gentiles were not as well.

Especially if there were humans who were at that time separate from God and without hope. Who were strangers to the Commonwealth of Israel. Maybe Neanderthal were the first Gentiles and Adam was the first Jew.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 24, 2017)

We do know there was pagan worship before Abraham. We do know that God considered it a sin. Maybe even Abraham worshiped pagan gods before he was called/chosen. 

This leads me to believe Abraham was chosen/elected. He did what God told him. He had faith and obeyed.

His family were pagans. They served other gods. So even one out of all of this early pagan worship was elected or chosen to begin the Jewish lineage. It had to begin somewhere.

Yet now we know that lineage didn't really mean anything. So that being said, maybe Neanderthal did have souls and knew Jesus by knowing God by his creation. 
They became adopted Jews by believing in God and heirs to the commonwealth of Israel.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

kmckinnie said:


> Neanderthal man
> 
> Scientists say that a great percent of the world has Neanderthal DNA



Yes, what I understood also and that it is very rare in people of African descent...


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## lagrangedave (Jun 25, 2017)

My Neanderthal DNA was traced to caves in Germany. Interestingly the most common characteristic is no back hair.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jun 25, 2017)

Farming started around 10,000 bc. Adam was a farmer and the other homids were extinct at that time.


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## centerpin fan (Jun 25, 2017)

kmckinnie said:


> Scientists say that a great percent of the world has Neanderthal DNA



This thread makes that abundantly clear.


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## Nicodemus (Jun 25, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> This thread makes that abundantly clear.




Actually, you just gave everyone a compliment. Not sure if you realize it or not.

Think about it, and then I`ll clarify it.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> Farming started around 10,000 bc. Adam was a farmer and the other homids were extinct at that time.



10000 yrs ago puts it right at the cusp of the last ice age! 

Perhaps there is something to the saying, "Necessity is the mother of invention." For yrs after this date...there was lots of free tilled land for anyone with seeds. From delta to mountain-coastal valley... there was a surplus supply of organically rich soil and fish and less squirrels, wild grapes, buffalo etc... then in the old days...


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



Here's a simple question that may help you understand.. What does it mean to be created in God's image?


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 25, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> 10000 yrs ago puts it right at the cusp of the last ice age!
> 
> Perhaps there is something to the saying, "Necessity is the mother of invention." For yrs after this date...there was lots of free tilled land for anyone with seeds. From delta to mountain-coastal valley... there was a surplus supply of organically rich soil and fish and less squirrels, wild grapes, buffalo etc... then in the old days...



Maybe the last ice age was like a great flood that killed everything. Perhaps in that episode all man was killed.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 25, 2017)

Nicodemus said:


> Actually, you just gave everyone a compliment. Not sure if you realize it or not.
> 
> Think about it, and then I`ll clarify it.



I think they were one of the first to have religion. They believed in a sacred world and buried their dead. I wonder if they believed in an afterlife?

Anyway, interesting to see where you are going with this.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> Maybe the last ice age was like a great flood that killed everything. Perhaps in that episode all man was killed.



Nope. Canadians put on their parkas and rode the ice to Virginy. Jigged for strippers of the ice flows of Carolina, dug clams and scallops off Chesapeake and then when the Brits hit the coast they beat their way back to Ottawa....  by way of Montana...


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jun 25, 2017)

There is a gap in time before Adam  the bible doesn't address.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think they were one of the first to have religion. They believed in a sacred world and buried their dead. I wonder if they believed in an afterlife?
> 
> Anyway, interesting to see where you are going with this.


 How do you know this is what the enigmatic thinks? Did you private message or sumtin.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> There is a gap in time before Adam  the bible doesn't address.



Yea... it does address it but it is mostly cloudy--as in vapored H2O. It is just suspended out there.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ]And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light..

It is an edit... but it is there... the period is covered by :

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Like a good news reporter (Breitbart et al... and Fox...)  ... Moses edited  to show up what he deemed most important for his audience...


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Yea... it does address it but it is mostly cloudy--as in vapored H2O. It is just suspended out there.
> 
> 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
> 
> ...



So 2  or 3 questions come to mind...

1.  How could there have been plant life, animal life or any life without light before day 1?

2.  How could there have been light without creation of the sun and moon?

3.  How do you clarify the existence of the earth, water, etc with Genesis 20.11?


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> So 2  or 3 questions come to mind...
> 
> 1.  How could there have been plant life, animal life or any life without light before day 1?
> 
> ...



Good point. Your thinking photosynthesis which is good thinking. But Gordo thinks the light here is a type of light which will become evident as not the light of photosynthesis at all, or sunshine, but a light emanating from God Himself... as is explained in the last chapters of Revelations.

But Gordo could be all mixed up... on this. It has happened in the past. But Gordon thinks that creation was not only a physical creation but also a spiritual one....  but alas! I could be incorrect... But if I'm correct the light is more than radiation from the sun. I take the poets in this: Light! The sun makes plants and apples green, and the deer with them unseen and seen,  and seen and unseen the hunter dreams day and night.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jun 25, 2017)

Was there a human existence before Adam?


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> There is a gap in time before Adam  the bible doesn't address.




The one above is good, but this is the one I meant to post.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> So 2  or 3 questions come to mind...
> 
> 1.  How could there have been plant life, animal life or any life without light before day 1?
> 
> ...



20:11? I'm not getting your point...


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> Was there a human existence before Adam?



Could be, but they were not souls. Maybe, kinda... perhaps...? Eve definitely wanted to move to a new neighbourhood...


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> Was there a human existence before Adam?



you are going to get several different answers on this question.  It is for sure and certain, that most will be wrong, and possibly all of them could be wrong.

The only way I can come down on this question is to refer back to the Bible, as I hold the Bible to be true and correct in every area it addresses.  Having said that, the Bible simply doesn't address some issue.

This question boils down to whether you believe what is plainly spelled out in the Bible, or if you wish to make the words of the Bible match up with "science" of today.

If you take the Bible to be the authority, and you look at Genesis 20:11, then read Genesis 1 and 2 with the thought that Genesis 20:11 must be true, there is only one conclusion

There was nothing here, not time, space, or matter. God spoke it all into existence, and created everything in 6 literal 24 hour days.  There was no human or humanoid species on earth before that creation, because there was no earth.


Now that is where I come down, but someone will be along shortly to explain how simple I am to believe what is written, and how if you torture the original text enough, you can see how the earth is millions and millions of years old, and all this other stuff was here before God "recreated" the earth for humans.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> 20:11? I'm not getting your point...



your earlier post said there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3 where Gods spirit moved on the waters.

Genesis 20:11 doesn't allow for any time span that was not accounted for between 1:1 and today.

20:11 says all things were created in 6 literal days, with no time gap.

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

You can't have creation in 1:1, a gap of time, and then finishing of creation if there is only 6 days, and those 6 days are accounted in the text.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jun 25, 2017)

it's speculation


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> it's speculation



It's not speculation, it is all in who you choose to believe.

You can take scripture and believe that God is big enough and powerful enough to convey to us how He created things, or you can believe that God had to hide, shadow and deceive the facts from us so what we could only believe a bit of what He said in scripture, and that we have to depend on the ever changing opinions of science to come to the right conclusions as to what really happened.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 25, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> How do you know this is what the enigmatic thinks? Did you private message or sumtin.



I think he lives around Albany somewhere, not Enigma! I'm not sure what this was about, just guessin'.


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> your earlier post said there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3 where Gods spirit moved on the waters.
> 
> Genesis 20:11 doesn't allow for any time span that was not accounted for between 1:1 and today.
> 
> ...



True, yes.  However a day for the Lord... might not be fixed to the... 1000 mile per/hr spin of our top. Was not the earth created on the 3ed day... What was the gauge of days before this? I warn you I'm not the brightest tac in the classroom...when it comes to where science and spirituality intersect. I won a pen knife in grade five for the highest average in science. It was all down hill from that yr regards academics. And I gained our Kingdom when I was a grown man and it has all been down from heaven ever since.  I don't have much more to contribute...


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

Day 6 if forced into a 24hr day must have been the longest day any man has lived. 

Adams first day Gen. 1:27
He is created.

God plants trees which grow in the garden. 

God tells Adam to tend and keep the garden. 

God formed the animals for companionship for Adam. 

God then brought all the animals before Adam to name them. 

Adam then realizes the deficiency in the animals as a suitable help meet for himself. 

God puts him to sleep and removes a rib. 

God then goes away and forms a woman. 

God eventually brings the woman to Adam. 

Wow!  I bet he was glad the next day was a day of rest, can you imagine tending trees and plants that grow faster than kudzu?


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> your earlier post said there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3 where Gods spirit moved on the waters.
> 
> Genesis 20:11 doesn't allow for any time span that was not accounted for between 1:1 and today.
> 
> ...



Well is creation being re-created now through Christ? If it is the case... then the days of the gentiles...span centuries? Why would a day in the first days of the original creation be different? I don't know... Peter says that a day or time for the Lord is not exactly as we account days for man... or am I incorrect?

And besides, many books in the Bible are poetic ie: not meant to be literal only... why would the creation account be different from one of the bible's poetic books?


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Well is creation being re-created now through Christ? If it is the case... then the days of the gentiles...span centuries? Why would a day in the first days of the original creation be different? I don't know... Peter says that a day or time for the Lord is not exactly as we account days for man... or am I incorrect?
> 
> And besides, many books in the Bible are poetic ie: not meant to be literal only... why would the creation account be different from one of the bible's poetic books?



except that in Genesis, the word used for day is used through out the remainder of scripture to mean a literal 24 hour long day.  And every other time the Bible uses the term evening and morning were a day, it means a literal 24 hour day.  Why is Genesis 1 and 2 different???

Why do we need the term day, evening and morning to mean something besides 24 hour day?  The only reason is we don't have faith enough to believe God is capable of creating all He did in that time frame.  The reason for the unbelief?  Science looked at some rocks and fossils and said that looks like it is 100 million years old to me, and Christians bought the story.  The whole bait, hook, line and sinker.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

Actually..young earth creationism is very new to Christianity.  It comes from Ellen G White,  a false prophetess of the seventh day Adventist... Even Schofield the dispensationalist uses old earth references in his Bible notes.


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## welderguy (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> except that in Genesis, the word used for day is used through out the remainder of scripture to mean a literal 24 hour long day.  And every other time the Bible uses the term evening and morning were a day, it means a literal 24 hour day.  Why is Genesis 1 and 2 different???
> 
> Why do we need the term day, evening and morning to mean something besides 24 hour day?  The only reason is we don't have faith enough to believe God is capable of creating all He did in that time frame.  The reason for the unbelief?  Science looked at some rocks and fossils and said that looks like it is 100 million years old to me, and Christians bought the story.  The whole bait, hook, line and sinker.



^^^This^^^


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## gordon 2 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> except that in Genesis, the word used for day is used through out the remainder of scripture to mean a literal 24 hour long day.  And every other time the Bible uses the term evening and morning were a day, it means a literal 24 hour day.  Why is Genesis 1 and 2 different???
> 
> Why do we need the term day, evening and morning to mean something besides 24 hour day?  The only reason is we don't have faith enough to believe God is capable of creating all He did in that time frame.  The reason for the unbelief?  Science looked at some rocks and fossils and said that looks like it is 100 million years old to me, and Christians bought the story.  The whole bait, hook, line and sinker.



Well all of scripture perhaps except in the case of Peter regards a 24 hr day.

I can equally say that the only reason that some believe that the term day means a literal 24 hr earth day in Genesis, is because we don't have faith enough to believe that God is able to reveal his truth via spiritual understanding of scripture other than its literal meaning...

It has noting to do with what science says or does not say. I has to do with what Jesus says to the saints regards understanding his parables, such as: 
" Whosoever has ears, let them hear."

So perhaps a day in scripture in some cases depends of having ears and not having ears--which might not mean having or not having ears at all, but simply those handed to Jesus by the Father can understand and those who are not can't.... If an ear can be something else than an ear, why can't a day be something else than an earth day?


Do we have cause to understand that our Lord's kingdom, the one Jesus will hand over to the Father is other than a literal  kingdom as some of the Jews understood it be,--- that is a political kingdom ? And if we have a good cause, why would a day in Genesis not be similar to one in Christ? ---That is being one thing to those yet in the world, or Carnal Christian and something else to a saint in a sincere and determined relationship with God? 

Is it possible that a saint can feed on God's revelation directly from His hands and from scripture?

What about if we let the saints individually chew their own foods; would the nutrients ingested be the same as if pre-chewed as in this?:


Ezekiel 34:10
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.

You have to ask, "Where is God going with this...?"


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

Here's the scofield reference and shows his support for the gap theory. 

Gap Theory

The gap theory was made popular by the Scofield Reference Bible (1909), which more than any other single edition of Scripture swept through this country and informed the theology of an entire generation of evangelicals. It became the principal instrument for propagating dispensational theology throughout America. In this Bible, Genesis 1:1 reads, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,” and verse 2 reads, “And the earth became without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Other Bibles read, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Verse 2 describes what most scholars consider to be the as-yet-unordered, basic structure of the universe—darkness, emptiness. Then the Holy Spirit hovers over the waters (v.2) and God says, “Let there be light” (v.3). Thus came the light and then the creation of the heavens, fish, birds, animals, and so on.

The Hebrew word in verse 2 translated “was” is the very common verb hayah, which ordinarily means “to be.” Hayah means “to become” only in special circumstances, which are not present here. The Scofield Reference Bible translates verse 2 as “became” instead of “was” in order to facilitate the gap theory


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Actually..young earth creationism is very new to Christianity.  It comes from Ellen G White,  a false prophetess of the seventh day Adventist... Even Schofield the dispensationalist uses old earth references in his Bible notes.



Dake came up with  the old earth / gap theory while he was serving time for violation of the Mann act.  Transporting a child across state lines for sexual gratification.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Dake came up with  the old earth / gap theory while he was serving time for violation of the Mann act.  Transporting a child across state lines for sexual gratification.



From what I've read so far.. Scofield beat him to it,  but I'll look into it. The early church didn't make much of it from what I've read so far.  Augustine seemed to disagree with 24hr days.. But he didn't know the earth was round at the time.  

 I think there's like five different theories I've read so far.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 25, 2017)

http://www.reasons.org/articles/how...-core-tenet-of-american-fundamentalism-part-2

This guy is considered the Father of new earth creationism ..a follower of Ellen G white.

Endnotes:

Seventh-Day Adventism was founded on the “revelations” of Ellen G. White, who took the Genesis creation account literalistically and even claimed that in one of her visions she was “shown the first week of creation” in which “God performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day.” White also taught “flood geology,” the theory that Noah’s flood was a worldwide catastrophe that reshaped the planet’s surface and buried all the fossils. See Frank M. Hasel, “Ellen G. White and Creationism: How to Deal With Her Statements on Creation and Evolution: Implications and Prospects,” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society 17 (Spring 2006): 232.2.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jun 25, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> From what I've read so far.. Scofield beat him to it,  but I'll look into it. The early church didn't make much of it from what I've read so far.  Augustine seemed to disagree with 24hr days.. But he didn't know the earth was round at the time.
> 
> I think there's like five different theories I've read so far.



if he had read Job who talks about the circle of the earth and light boundrys.  Also in Job 26, he speaks of the earth hanging in space on nothing...  Wonder how Job traveled into space and saw that...

You know it had to be a revelation from God. He couldn't have seen it.  Even Psalms talks of the earth being a sphere with no support system under it.


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## SemperFiDawg (Jun 26, 2017)

I get the feeling it's still early in this one.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 26, 2017)

I wonder how we should view a water firmament as described in Genesis?

Job 26:10 talks about this. It also could be a circle and not a sphere between the upper and lower waters.

Isaiah 40:22
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

"The earth with its surrounding ocean is conceived as a flat disc, on which the arch of heaven comes down."

I don't see how Augustine or anyone else who grew up believing the earth was flat could gather that it was a sphere instead of a round flat circle from reading Job and Isaiah. Their mindset was that it was flat. They wouldn't gather that it was a sphere from scripture.


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## Artfuldodger (Jun 26, 2017)

If we must assume that a day is a day in scripture then we must assume we think with our heart and have matters of the heart. 
The heart is the center of our thinking and not our brain.
Isn't this what scripture teaches? 

If we believe science that now says we use our brains, we're falling hook, line, and sinker for science over scripture. Right?

Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Looks like everything was created in "one" day. That's what scripture says.


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## hobbs27 (Jun 26, 2017)

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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jul 13, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> It's not speculation, it is all in who you choose to believe.
> 
> You can take scripture and believe that God is big enough and powerful enough to convey to us how He created things, or you can believe that God had to hide, shadow and deceive the facts from us so what we could only believe a bit of what He said in scripture, and that we have to depend on the ever changing opinions of science to come to the right conclusions as to what really happened.



I find it interesting when science unlocks the mysteries of God.   God never told us the building blocks to life  considering the physics and chemistry of what we are surrounded by.  He  left it up to society to figure it out.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jul 13, 2017)

One can't bring these questions up in Sunday School or a Church Bible study because people will mark you as a unbeliever. However, Paul directed us to debate the scriptures.


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## Artfuldodger (Jul 13, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> I find it interesting when science unlocks the mysteries of God.   God never told us the building blocks to life  considering the physics and chemistry of what we are surrounded by.  He  left it up to society to figure it out.



I believe God used science in his creation and left it up to man to discover this. Some people believe  God didn't use science and that it is just man's way of trying to explain God's creation.

If they believe this to be true, why do they use science in their daily living to include medical care? Why do they allow their kids to take science class in school? You'd think they would find a Christian school that doesn't teach science.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jul 14, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I believe God used science in his creation and left it up to man to discover this. Some people believe  God didn't use science and that it is just man's way of trying to explain God's creation.
> 
> If they believe this to be true, why do they use science in their daily living to include medical care? Why do they allow their kids to take science class in school? You'd think they would find a Christian school that doesn't teach science.



That is because of ignorant preachers.


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## Fuzzy D Fellers (Jul 14, 2017)

Science is the study of God's creation.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 14, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> One can't bring these questions up in Sunday School or a Church Bible study because people will mark you as a unbeliever. However, Paul directed us to debate the scriptures.



some churches, and you would be right.  Other churches encourage people to question and search the scripture.  Most of us are dead set on what we believe and it takes a tractor trailer load of offsetting evidence to make us change our minds.  

a man is not an unbeliever just because he questions what he is being taught or was taught


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## oldfella1962 (Aug 14, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



interesting point! If Jesus had come 30,000 years sooner would there be a Neanderthal crucified? 
I'm not being funny, it's a valid question. Even for those who don't believe in carbon 14 dating (I wouldn't let a carbon atom date until they were at least 16 but I'm old fashioned) no matter how you age fossils if the oldest homo skulls have a smaller brain capacity and bigger/stronger jaw bones more and the skulls get more "human" the newer they get then it's obvious that there is a long line of progression from our proto-human ancestors and homo sapiens. Factor in an average of 2.5 percent Neanderthal DNA in many of us, and it's obvious we aren't the first attempt and won't be the last (assuming we don't blow ourselves up first). 

Creating two humans "off the cuff" out of clay might fly if you don't know anything about science. Hmmm.....when the bible was written even the best & brightest minds didn't know a fraction of what we know now, and the bible sure illustrates that IMO.


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## oldfella1962 (Aug 14, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> There is a gap in time before Adam  the bible doesn't address.



with no written record oral stories can only be told over and over so many times until they are forgotten. Civilizations are wiped out, languages are wiped out, etc. 
That gap in time goes back from civilization/farming (10,000 or so years) to 500,000 years or so when proto-humans started to emerge. 

Some scientists think when humans migrated from asia to north America they were trapped in berengia (bering straits area) for 5,000 years until the glaciers receded enough for full-scale migration! That's enough time for several (or many) complete cultures to develop and die out or morph into other cultures.....wow!


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## oldfella1962 (Aug 14, 2017)

Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> Was there a human existence before Adam?



most certainly - Adam was a farmer and humans were hunter/gathers long before farming. Matter-of-fact the archeological/paleontology record shows humans were bigger & stronger & healthier in the glacial times than they were once farming got established. 

Rapid environmental changes (not just glaciers but other changes too) forced humans to adapt and use our superior brains and athletic advantages to survive and get even smarter and more skilled - thus women will always be hard-wired to be attracted to men who are "winners" or at least look like winners - tall, strong, confident, smart, etc.


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## welderguy (Aug 15, 2017)

oldfella1962 said:


> most certainly - Adam was a farmer and humans were hunter/gathers long before farming. Matter-of-fact the archeological/paleontology record shows humans were bigger & stronger & healthier in the glacial times than they were once farming got established.
> 
> Rapid environmental changes (not just glaciers but other changes too) forced humans to adapt and use our superior brains and athletic advantages to survive and get even smarter and more skilled - thus women will always be hard-wired to be attracted to men who are "winners" or at least look like winners - tall, strong, confident, smart, etc.



Good thing there's grace for us losers.


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## Nicodemus (Aug 15, 2017)

oldfella1962 said:


> with no written record oral stories can only be told over and over so many times until they are forgotten. Civilizations are wiped out, languages are wiped out, etc.
> That gap in time goes back from civilization/farming (10,000 or so years) to 500,000 years or so when proto-humans started to emerge.
> 
> Some scientists think when humans migrated from asia to north America they were trapped in berengia (bering straits area) for 5,000 years until the glaciers receded enough for full-scale migration! That's enough time for several (or many) complete cultures to develop and die out or morph into other cultures.....wow!





I`m just about convinced that the Solutrean People from Europe were on this continent first. The knapping and stoneworking techniques the Clovis People used is too much alike to be a coincidence.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 15, 2017)

Nicodemus said:


> I`m just about convinced that the Solutrean People from Europe were on this continent first. The knapping and stoneworking techniques the Clovis People used is too much alike to be a coincidence.



I pretty much agree. And Clovis concentrations are much heavier in the east than in the west to boot. 

I would say that many types of people from many different places have called this continent home over the years.


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## Harbuck (Oct 15, 2017)

*Created man...... Formed man*




Fuzzy D Fellers said:


> we have homoerectus  and nethanderthols then us. Who was created in God's image?



John 4:24King James Version (KJV)

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If God is a spirit , perhaps our spirit is what is in the image of God.

Genesis 1:26-31King James Version (KJV)

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Notice in chapter 2 of Gen. That it says that God "formed" man from the dust of the ground, Because "there was no man to till the ground." How could this be? God "created" man on the sixth day. 
  But if man was at this point still only a spirit being as God is "in the image of God" then it makes since. God had not yet "formed" man "the vessel- physical being" and breath the spirit"life" into it. Up until this point perhaps the "created- image of" only existed in a spiritual form/place.

Genesis 2:1-8King James Version (KJV)

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit

Spirit means breath/wind

http://1000petals.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/sahaja-yogaspirit-means-breath-or-wind/


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## swampstalker24 (Oct 16, 2017)

NE GA Pappy said:


> if he had read Job who talks about the circle of the earth and light boundrys.  Also in Job 26, he speaks of the earth hanging in space on nothing...  Wonder how Job traveled into space and saw that...
> 
> You know it had to be a revelation from God. He couldn't have seen it.  Even Psalms talks of the earth being a sphere with no support system under it.



Or maybe he just assumed that since the stars, moon, and sun all seemed to "hang in space", then maybe the same was true of the earth?


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## jrickman (Oct 16, 2017)

2 things...

1. A wise man once said to me, "Son, the Bible doesn't say that it contains everything there IS to know about creation. It simply contains everything you NEED to know about God. He gave you a brain for the rest."

2. When people talk about reconciling modern science with the story of the creation from Genesis, they most often are talking about geology and biology, which are far from settled science, and our knowledge and understanding of them evolve with the generations. What is often mysteriously overlooked when discussing the 6 day literal vs. interpreted timeline is the science of physics. Do some research on the concept of time dilation from the theory of relativity. Time dilation has been demonstrated and proven. Put simply, time dilation is the difference in time as observed from 2 points caused by either a difference in velocity of motion or proximity to a large gravitational field.

For the purpose of this post, let's focus on some known examples. Gravity literally slows down the passage of time, as measured by our methods. Clocks on many satellites run faster than clocks on the ground, for instance. This is due to their proximity to the earth. Meanwhile, clocks on the space shuttle have been shown to run faster due to its orbital speed. Now for a moment, lets imagine the potential gravitational force of either God Himself, or any physical body He is present on, somewhere way out there in space. For the skeptics, let's just imagine a grey bearded old man standing on a planet several thousand light years away that is many times larger than earth. It is entirely plausible that a day in that location is equivalent to 1000 years here on Earth, as referenced in the New Testament. Add in the potential difference in velocity between the two objects and this can increase further. Bottom line, time is not a universal constant. It is different based on where you're standing and where you're going. 

There is much we do not understand about creation and personally I believe that those who try to box God in, whether by insisting on a literal 6 day timeline and thus supposing that God is somehow bound by the law of physics, as well as those who adamantly refute the 6 day timeline, based on some conclusions literally drawn from the dirt, are all failing to acknowledge the simple reality that God has no obligation to break things down for us kindergarten style, or to prove Himself to us. The pride and arrogance of man is on full display on both sides of this argument, among believers as well as skeptics.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 16, 2017)

It really doesn't matter. 

What does matter is that after all of the time man has been on earth he has yet to figure out the "big picture" and how to live in harmony with each other. 

In terms of species, we are indeed one of the dumbest.


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## swampstalker24 (Oct 16, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> It really doesn't matter.
> 
> What does matter is that after all of the time man has been on earth he has yet to figure out the "big picture" and how to live in harmony with each other.
> 
> *In terms of species, we are indeed one of the dumbest*.



I wonder if this is by "design" or rather a failure on the part of the creator?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Oct 16, 2017)

swampstalker24 said:


> I wonder if this is by "design" or rather a failure on the part of the creator?



The creator gave us all free will. Supposing all creatures were given the same I would surmise we have not used ours wisely.


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## centerpin fan (Oct 16, 2017)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> The creator gave us all free will.



Uh oh.  Prepare for ...


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## Israel (Oct 20, 2017)

I don't think any have contended that man does not have a will.
Nor do I believe any disciple would contend that God does not.

But _whose_ is of _all_ liberty?


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## marketgunner (Nov 21, 2017)

*God Imge*

God is a Spirit,

Those made in God's image are living spirits in fleshly vessels.

The flesh is not in God's image, the eternal living spirit is


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## Artfuldodger (Nov 21, 2017)

marketgunner said:


> God is a Spirit,
> 
> Those made in God's image are living spirits in fleshly vessels.
> 
> The flesh is not in God's image, the eternal living spirit is



Yet somehow it's related to humanity. The Word was with God.


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