# smokepole problems !



## PopPop (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a TC renegade 50 cal and cannot hit anything with it! I have tried several loads using pyrodex powder and several different bullets and just cannot get a decent group. I also am thinking of putting a TC peep sight on and wonder if anyone has tried one. The factory sights will not adjust low enough for any load tried, all shots are at least 6 inches high at 100 yds. Any help is appreciated.


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## schreck_1 (Oct 13, 2009)

PopPop,

I'm wondering if the pyrodex doesn't burn hotter than traditional black powder.  I've  got  a TC hawken caplock that was shooting really high when I tried 2 pyro pellets out of it.  I don't think the pellets were a good idea, so I'm gonna try the pyro powder this afternoon and see how it shoots.  I'm gonna try 90 grains of powder since thats what I always shot of FF black powder.

As for the peepsight, my dad put one on his hawken flintlock a couple years ago and likes it.


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## kingfish (Oct 13, 2009)

The only thing that shoots straight in my Thompson is a ball and patch with 70 grains of FFF powder.  I've tried everything else and nothing else works other than putting a scope on it.


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## tv_racin_fan (Oct 13, 2009)

PopPop:  Have you tried .490 round ball with a .015 lubed patch? Seems to me the Renegade has a 1-48 twist barrel and it should be plenty accurate with Patched Round Ball or the lead conicals, might not give decent accuracy with any sabbotted load, then again it might. Start at 60 grains of powder and work up until the accuracy falls off. The 1-48 twist barrel is a compromise so you can supposedly shoot PRB or lead conicals with reasonable accuracy.

TC gives these loads.

Renegade & Hawken, 50 caliber
Round ball loads (.490", 175 grains):
50 grains FFg - 1357 FPS - 761 ft.lbs
60 grains FFg - 1434 FPS - 850 ft.lbs
70 grains FFg - 1643 FPS - 1115 ft.lbs
80 grains FFg - 1838 FPS - 1396 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 1950 FPS - 1571 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 2052 FPS - 1739 ft.lbs
110 grains FFg - 2135 FPS - 1883 ft.lbs

Maxi-Ball loads (370 grains):
80 grains FFg - 1271 FPS - 1328 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 1344 FPS - 1484 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 1418 FPS - 1652 ft.lbs


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## Slayer (Oct 13, 2009)

try this

90gr pyrodex powder
.490" round ball
.10" patch

try the same powder load with one of the big pre-lubed buffalo bullet "maxi-hunter" bullets....my T/C hawkens loved them..and would raise the dust on one when I hit them!!!


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## schreck_1 (Oct 14, 2009)

PopPop,

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm having the same problem.  As I said yesterday, I tried the pyro powder and am still hitting the same as you.  6" high with the rear sight cranked all the way down.  Its the same with 245 gr powerbelts or .490 round balls.  I never had this problem with my CVA frontier.  My good friend that gave me this hawken never had a problem either.  Just not sure what is going on or what to do.  It groups the conicals really well, so for right now I'm just sitting the deer on top of the front sight.  Sure would be nice not to apply any kentucky windage though.


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## 7Mag Hunter (Oct 14, 2009)

PopPop...Your Ball/patch combo should be tight going down the
barrel !!!!   If it is easy to load you are not going to get good
accuracy....
Moderate powder charges also yield the dest results...75-90 gr
is plenty ...Excess powder will not burn completely and just cause
more fouling of the barrel....
I would try 75 gr Pyrodex and a TIGHT round ball/patch combo...
Slow twist barrels will not stabilize conical very well, as they were designed for round balls


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## PopPop (Oct 16, 2009)

Hey, Thanks for all of the tips , I have tried most of these things and can get some decent groups. I really like the round ball and patch. I have been shooting a.490 Ball and .10 patch w 90 grs of pyrodex. This appears to be a formidable load for our deer out to 100 yds. I have filed the notch down on my rear sight and am able to make the hit. Anyone used this load with success on deer.


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## dawg2 (Oct 16, 2009)

PopPop said:


> Hey, Thanks for all of the tips , I have tried most of these things and can get some decent groups. I really like the round ball and patch. I have been shooting a.490 Ball and .10 patch w 90 grs of pyrodex. This appears to be a formidable load for our deer out to 100 yds. I have filed the notch down on my rear sight and am able to make the hit. Anyone used this load with success on deer.



Always file down the FRONT SIGHT first


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## DrifterBob (Oct 17, 2009)

Dumb question for me to ask I guess but have you tried adjusting the rear sight ramp up? Seems that's how we did the ole M-16, rear sight up , front sight down to raise, opposite to lower. That is correct isn't it? Been 36 years, way to long ago for this old head.

Bob


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## Bernard goldsmith (Oct 17, 2009)

Your right!! That old head is still working.


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## garndawg (Oct 19, 2009)

To answer the original question, I have a T/C tang peep on my T/C Hawken and I prefer it to the blade/notch.  If your T/C has three screws on the tang, it'll drop right in.  Else, you'll have to drill'n'tap one more hole.

Note the following, as the included instructions suck.

Leave the rear ramp sight on for starters.  Use it to boresight the peep.  Then take it off and put in filler screws for the holes.

To mount the peep, oil lightly the bottom of the sight and the top fo the tang.  Use the top two screw holes (closest to the lock).  Use the package-included screw for the middle, and reuse the original (long) screw for the top.  Use blue loctite on both screws.  Let it sit for about half an hour for the loctite to cure.

To adjust the peep:
Up/down: Loosen the back hex (lock) screw, then turn the top hex (adjust) screw.  When finished, tighten the back hex (lock) screw.

Side-to-side: loosen the front flatblade (lock) screw and slide the sight with your fingers.  Tighten the front lock screw.

Note that when the two lock screws are backed out, the sight is pretty loose.  When the lock screws are in, it tightens up nicely.  Do NOT use loctite, even the blue, on the lock screws, as the material is pretty soft and even the hexscrew will strip.  If you must lock them down, I'd recommend using your wife's clear fingernail polish over the top, and just a little bit of that.  (Like, what'll fit on the tip of a toothpick.)

Some people like to drill out the little hole in the aperture to a larger size, but I find that I can unscrew the aperture and use it as a ghost ring until there's enough light.

I'm happy with mine.  Minute of pie-plate out to about 100 yards...


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## tommy jacobs (Oct 19, 2009)

*patch & ball*

I shot a doe Friday with my trusty thompson side lock, I have killed 10 deer with it over the years, I had the same problem till i started using 85 grains of FFG, with a 490 ball and patch, it has shot the same for 10 years


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## Darkhorse (Oct 20, 2009)

Rifles shooting low; File the front sight because your tilting the rifle down to get a sight picture.
Rifles shooting high; I would build a new higher front sight or file the top of the rear blade. Filing the notch won't help. But it must be brought down relative to the top of the blade.

Best idea yet; Get one of those peep sights. They really improve shooting a great deal. And offer more adjustability.
A couple more years and these (getting) older eyes will give up on the rear blade and I'll fit peeps to my hunting  longrifles.


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