# Braves Free Agent Signings



## James12 (Nov 13, 2019)

....is it safe to say Donaldson isn’t coming back?  It’s looking like others will pay.  Is Austin Riley the next option for the Braves?  

Any other huge news?


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## HermanMerman (Nov 13, 2019)

Kris Bryant wants out of Chicago. I say go trade for him. Plenty of pitching talent in the minors and Chicago has a bunch of pitchers getting older by the day.


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## James12 (Nov 13, 2019)

Bryant wants out of Chicago?


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## biggdogg (Nov 13, 2019)

Cubs will want a kings ransom for Bryant and the Braves won't be the ones to give it to them. Not for one season. If the Braves don't get Donaldson back, and I'd say that's a big if, they'll most likely go after Moustakas. He puts up similar offensive numbers, but doesn't have quite as good a glove. Yasmani Grandal and Mad-bum are also primary targets. The Braves may be active on the trade market, but if they trade any upper tier prospects, it will be for someone with multiple years left on their contract.


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## biggdogg (Nov 13, 2019)

James12 said:


> Bryant wants out of Chicago?



No. Cubs are looking at a mild rebuild and want to get under the luxury tax. They want to move Bryant to load the farm system. They're also supposedly shopping Contreras as well.


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## Horns (Nov 13, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> Cubs will want a kings ransom for Bryant and the Braves won't be the ones to give it to them. Not for one season. If the Braves don't get Donaldson back, and I'd say that's a big if, they'll most likely go after Moustakas. He puts up similar offensive numbers, but doesn't have quite as good a glove. Yasmani Grandal and Mad-bum are also primary targets. The Braves may be active on the trade market, but if they trade any upper tier prospects, it will be for someone with multiple years left on their contract.


And his agent is Boras. Braves don’t have a good relationship with him. He overprices his clients


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## HermanMerman (Nov 13, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> No. Cubs are looking at a mild rebuild and want to get under the luxury tax. They want to move Bryant to load the farm system. They're also supposedly shopping Contreras as well.



Chicago apparently is giving him issues with his MLB service time. Has to do with when they brought him up from the minors. Of course the Braves won’t pony up for someone like that, but I’m tired of watching them underachieve.


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## riprap (Nov 13, 2019)

Braves are all about bragging about how cheap they got somebody and how much money they've made. They don't really care what the fans think. That was evident in taking away the tomahawks for the last game.


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## biggdogg (Nov 14, 2019)

HermanMerman said:


> Chicago apparently is giving him issues with his MLB service time. Has to do with when they brought him up from the minors. Of course the Braves won’t pony up for someone like that, but I’m tired of watching them underachieve.



That's a labor contract issue. The Braves did the same thing with Acuna. Teams typically don't bring their top prospects up out of spring training. If they wait until the end of April, the team gets an extra year of control. Pete Alonso of the Mets is one of the rare times you'll ever see a top prospect make the ML team out of spring training.


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## James12 (Nov 14, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> That's a labor contract issue. The Braves did the same thing with Acuna. Teams typically don't bring their top prospects up out of spring training. If they wait until the end of April, the team gets an extra year of control. Pete Alonso of the Mets is one of the rare times you'll ever see a top prospect make the ML team out of spring training.




Correct, and I think this often ends up sending a message to the player that rarely is welcomed.  Acuna being the exception.

However Acuna and Albies will both be re-upping their contracts before 22’ I’m sure.  If they keep this pace.

On the Donaldson front, I think it’s a forgone conclusion he’s not back.  Too many teams willing to pay the 3yrs I’m afraid.


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## biggdogg (Nov 14, 2019)

To be quite honest, I'm fine letting him walk and signing Moustakas for 2-3 years at $10 mil a year. AA is going after a starter regardless of who signs up to play 3B, but that $15 mil difference per season would come in mighty handy in contract talks with Grandal.


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## doenightmare (Nov 14, 2019)

Braves signed closer Will Smith from the Giants. 34 saves last year.


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## Duff (Nov 14, 2019)

doenightmare said:


> Braves signed closer Will Smith from the Giants. 34 saves last year.


Like!


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## westcobbdog (Nov 14, 2019)

Good move and a local guy.


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## mizzippi jb (Nov 14, 2019)

Yup!   Coweta county.   Northgate HS.   Still comes around and throws some At the school.


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## biggdogg (Nov 14, 2019)

Greene, Melancon and Smith makes for a mighty formidable back end of the pen.


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## dirtnap (Nov 14, 2019)

As much as I like Donaldson last year, no way I’d sign him to a multi-year contract. It’s a million wonders he made it through last year without an injury


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## DannyW (Nov 15, 2019)

Will Smith is an excellent start. Could still use another bullpen piece or two but those can be backfilled later this off season.

Need a catcher and 3rd baseman now. I still hold faint hope that Donaldson comes to his senses and realizes that he already has enough money to buy what ever he may possibly want, and decides to sign with the Braves at a home town discount....maybe 3 years at $45-50 million. The Braves are a good situation for him careerwise, a young team going places.

But he will likely get a 3-4 year offer @$60-80 million from a baseball purgatory like Detroit and make a decision based entirely on who offers the most money...regardless of whether he needs more money or not. That's the way it usually plays out.


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## biggdogg (Nov 15, 2019)

My guess is Donaldson winds up in Arlington, or maybe DC after Rendon cashes in. As much as I like Donaldson, I think Moustakas makes more sense. And from what I've been reading, AA is exploring that option.


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## elfiii (Nov 15, 2019)

I hope AA snags Donaldson. He has proven himself. He’s closer to the end of his career than the middle so this would be a good time for him to make a deal and play with a contender to finish up.


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## Throwback (Nov 15, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> As much as I like Donaldson last year, no way I’d sign him to a multi-year contract. It’s a million wonders he made it through last year without an injury


I’d take the 23 million and go fishing


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## Throwback (Nov 15, 2019)

It would be cool to have markakis and moustakis  on the same team


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## biggdogg (Nov 20, 2019)

AA is putting a lot of focus on the pen it seems. Re-signed Chris Martin to a 2 year deal. That puts the pen at Melancon, Smith, Greene (pending arbitration), O'Day and Martin. Pretty solid at this point.

Not sure what the plan is at catcher yet. I'd love to see Grandal signed, but I don't know that they go after him, or any other catcher until 3B is addressed, although there has been talk of possibly trading for Contreras from the Cubs. AA has been pretty adamant that they will go out and get a 3B and not count on Camargo or Riley at this point. Looks like Bumgarner is still a priority as well.


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## James12 (Nov 20, 2019)

Wish Donaldson would take a 2 year deal with a 3 year club option.  But don't see it happening if someone will give him 3 now.


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## biggdogg (Nov 20, 2019)

James12 said:


> Wish Donaldson would take a 2 year deal with a 3 year club option.  But don't see it happening if someone will give him 3 now.



There will be an AL team that gives him 4 knowing he can DH on a regular basis, and Texas has been mentioned a lot in that regard. My money says Moustakas gets a 3 year deal from the Braves for roughly 1/3 of what a 3 year deal would cost to get Donaldson back.


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## elfiii (Nov 20, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> There will be an AL team that gives him 4 knowing he can DH on a regular basis, and Texas has been mentioned a lot in that regard. My money says Moustakas gets a 3 year deal from the Braves for roughly 1/3 of what a 3 year deal would cost to get Donaldson back.



I say pay Donaldson. 3rd base ain't broke and it don't need no fixin'.


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## KyDawg (Nov 20, 2019)

Hope Hamilton is not another Mike Upson deal.


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## biggdogg (Nov 20, 2019)

KyDawg said:


> Hope Hamilton is not another Mike Upson deal.



I assume you mean Billy Hamilton. He's already gone. His option was declined the same day Julio was cut loose.


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## KyDawg (Nov 20, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> I assume you mean Billy Hamilton. He's already gone. His option was declined the same day Julio was cut loose.



My bad. Had a senior moment. I meant Josh Smith.


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## Duff (Nov 20, 2019)

Like the move so far. Keep it up AA!


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## DannyW (Nov 20, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> AA is putting a lot of focus on the pen it seems. Re-signed Chris Martin to a 2 year deal. That puts the pen at Melancon, Smith, Greene (pending arbitration), O'Day and Martin. Pretty solid at this point.



Agreed. And don't forget Newcomb...he had a solid year in the pen last year (3.16 ERA), plus he can pitch multiple innings or be a starter if the team needs a pinch-starter.

The pen looks much improved over the group that started in 2019....MUCH improved!


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## biggdogg (Nov 20, 2019)

AA has said the plan with Newcomb is to stretch him out with the intent to go into Spring Training as a part of the rotation.


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## James12 (Nov 20, 2019)

Think AL is probably where JD ends up. Makes sense with the DH.  NL may have it soon too though.


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## KyDawg (Nov 20, 2019)

But at the end of the day, they are still the Braves. Ted Turner and Bobby Cox not waling in the door down there,


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## DannyW (Nov 21, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> AA has said the plan with Newcomb is to stretch him out with the intent to go into Spring Training as a part of the rotation.



Interesting...I have wondered if the Braves had given up on Newcomb as a starter. He is the guy who started the 2018 season with a 2.71 ERA over his first 16 starts through the end of June, and also came within one out of no-hitting the Dodgers in July.


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## elfiii (Nov 21, 2019)

DannyW said:


> Interesting...I have wondered if the Braves had given up on Newcomb as a starter. He is the guy who started the 2018 season with a 2.71 ERA over his first 16 starts through the end of June, and also came within one out of no-hitting the Dodgers in July.



Newcomb's pitching has been all over the place. Consistency is his problem as a starter. He got better in the bullpen close to the end of the season but he still needs a lot of work if he's going to be a starter.


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## biggdogg (Nov 21, 2019)

Guess now we wait and see what AA finds on the trade market to address catcher. Grandal signed a 4 year deal with the White Sox...


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## Raylander (Nov 21, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> Guess now we wait and see what AA finds on the trade market to address catcher. Grandal signed a 4 year deal with the White Sox...



They can have him for that kinda $$..
Need to do something though, Flowers is horrible..


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## fireman1501 (Nov 21, 2019)

They has to be something else out there to talk about than the Braves.


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## biggdogg (Nov 21, 2019)

worleyburd86 said:


> They can have him for that kinda $$..
> Need to do something though, Flowers is horrible..



Agree on both counts. The ChiSox over payed in my opinion. As bad I would have liked to see him in Atlanta, not for that kind of money. If I had to guess, they start looking into what it would take to get the elder Contreras from the Cubbies.


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## elfiii (Nov 21, 2019)

worleyburd86 said:


> They can have him for that kinda $$..
> Need to do something though, Flowers is horrible..



Maybe they should have kept Suzuki? Nah. What am I thinking? This is the Braves we're talking about here.


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## Duff (Nov 21, 2019)

elfiii said:


> Maybe they should have kept Suzuki? Nah. What am I thinking? This is the Braves we're talking about here.



Time to bring in a old veteran now that BMac is gone. Idk, maybe Javy Lopez?


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## Browning Slayer (Nov 21, 2019)

If the Braves sign any Dawgs, Throwback will stop watching.


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## elfiii (Nov 21, 2019)

Duff said:


> Time to bring in a old veteran now that BMac is gone. Idk, maybe Javy Lopez?



I bet he would be better than Flowers.


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## antharper (Nov 21, 2019)

fireman1501 said:


> They has to be something else out there to talk about than the Braves.


Depends...... quite a few other threads u could look at !


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## Lindseys Grandpa (Nov 22, 2019)

mizzippi jb said:


> Yup!   Coweta county.   Northgate HS.   Still comes around and throws some At the school.


He comes by it honest. I caught his daddy in Little league and had to fold a handkerchief in my mitt and it still hurt like rip.


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## fireman1501 (Nov 22, 2019)

antharper said:


> Depends...... quite a few other threads u could look at !


Yes sir they is no doubt.


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## biggdogg (Nov 25, 2019)

Catcher has been addressed. Travis d'Arnaud for two years. Second best available catcher on the market. I assume the Cubs wanted a fortune for Contreras. I also read the the Liberty Media will be allowing AA to spend a little more judiciously than in years past. Guess we'll see. Still need a front end starter and a third baseman. And it seems a corner outfielder is on AA's shopping list as well.


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## James12 (Nov 25, 2019)

Kris Bryant


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## biggdogg (Nov 25, 2019)

AA will pay Donaldson before he sells the farm for Bryant.


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## elfiii (Nov 25, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> AA will pay Donaldson before he sells the farm for Bryant.



He needs to pay Donaldson.


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## biggdogg (Dec 2, 2019)

Braves non-tender Culberson, making him a free agent, and Moustakas signs a 4 year $64mil deal with Cincinnati. With Moustakas signing that big of a deal, it likely pushes Donaldson's price up and out of the Braves range.


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## James12 (Dec 2, 2019)

I don’t think Donaldson is coming back.


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## elfiii (Dec 2, 2019)

James12 said:


> I don’t think Donaldson is coming back.



Big mistake if they let him go.


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## James12 (Dec 2, 2019)

elfiii said:


> Big mistake if they let him go.



If he’d sign for 2 years it’d make sense.


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## westcobbdog (Dec 2, 2019)

Sux being a prisoner to our own tight cheap budget minded NY types controlling the purse strings.


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## elfiii (Dec 3, 2019)

James12 said:


> If he’d sign for 2 years it’d make sense.



The Braves could sign him for any length of time they want. They don't have a problem with that. They have a problem with paying people.


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## biggdogg (Dec 3, 2019)

With Moustakas signing for 4 years at $17 mil a year, Donaldson WILL get 4 years and more like $25-27 a year. The Braves payroll is already at +/- $125 mil for 2020. Liberty has alluded to the payroll likely being in the neighborhood of $150 mil for 2020. Braves opening day payroll has NEVER been over $120 mil. Not even old Ted spent like that. Assuming Ender gets traded to free up his $7 mil, that doesn't leave much room to sign Donaldson and a GOOD veteran pitcher. Probably going to be some trades made to add offense either at 3B or OF, but Moustakas contract, and teams with more money needing a 3B means Donaldson won't be a Brave next season.


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## biggdogg (Dec 4, 2019)

Braves sign starting lefty Cole Hammels for 1 year $18 mil. Can't say I saw that one coming. Good veteran with a lot of post season experience to mentor the young kids.


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## dirtnap (Dec 4, 2019)

maybe he won’t be another Keuchel


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## westcobbdog (Dec 4, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> Catcher has been addressed. Travis d'Arnaud for two years. Second best available catcher on the market. I assume the Cubs wanted a fortune for Contreras. I also read the the Liberty Media will be allowing AA to spend a little more judiciously than in years past. Guess we'll see. Still need a front end starter and a third baseman. And it seems a corner outfielder is on AA's shopping list as well.



Travis D combined with Flowers may be adequate, but lets hope the version of Flowers is the one from 2 seasons ago vs last season's.


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## biggdogg (Dec 5, 2019)

westcobbdog said:


> Travis D combined with Flowers may be adequate, but lets hope the version of Flowers is the one from 2 seasons ago vs last season's.



I agree, although I don't see him playing as much since d'Arnaud is more of an everyday type catcher still.


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## westcobbdog (Dec 5, 2019)

so maybe he can regain his stroke offensively by being fresher. Plus less passed balls because he wont be behind the dish as much.


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## elfiii (Dec 5, 2019)

westcobbdog said:


> so maybe he can regain his stroke offensively by being fresher. Plus less passed balls because he wont be behind the dish as much.



He had to be near the top on that statistic last year. I can't remember a game he played where he didn't have one. There probably are a few but I can't remember them.


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## biggdogg (Dec 5, 2019)

Hopefully last season was more of an outlier as opposed to the norm for Flowers. He has always been regarded as one of the best defensive catchers and pitch framers in the game. But yeah, he was very bad in the passed ball department.


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## DannyW (Dec 12, 2019)

Okay...now that the Braves have filled their "aging veteran who still can pitch a little" spot with Cole Hamels , a position formerly held by Dallas Keuchel, what's next?

There are lingering rumours they are still interested in Madison Bumgarner. He is a decent choice....a mostly durable (2 seasons he was limited to injury)  200+ inning and 30+ starts guy who holds his own with the bat. A fierce post-season competitor and unlike Hamels/Keuchel, at 30 YO he still has a few years left in the tank.

So for starting pitching they will have Soroka, Fried, Hamels, Folty, Newcomb, Wright, and maybe Bumgarner to choose from. And some of those other young arms (too many to name) may step forward...for one, Ian Anderson seems close.

Now that Moustakas (Reds) and Rendon (Angels) are signed, who's on third? By virtue of the Moustakas/Rendon signings, Josh Donaldson just got a battlefield promotion in terms of a deal and likely is beyond the Braves financial reach...assuming he signs based on best offer. He will now probably command a 4-year deal in the $90 million range.

Kris Bryant is reportedly available. Big bat, hits for average with a good glove, and can play multiple positions if needed. The downside is that the Cubs will want value in terms of prospects and a lot of it. Plus he is only under club control for two more seasons and will likely command a Rendon type of deal (7 years at $35 million each) when he goes to free agency in 2022. So any trade for Bryant will have to be considered as having a 2-year sunset.

I am beginning to think the Braves are resigned to handing 3rd base to either Carmargo or Riley...or maybe a platoon situation. I had hoped that Riley would become our regular 3rd baseman for the next several years but - in my opinion - he has not yet proven that he can consistently hit MLB pitching.

Outfield I am not so worried about. Between Inciarte, Markakis, Acuna, and Duvall, they can cobble together a respectable and productive outfield. Plus Pache is waiting in the wings.

Bullpen? Who the heck knows but on paper they are much improved over last year.

So far the Braves have been the busiest team in the off season. AA is really settling into the role of GM.


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## Coenen (Dec 12, 2019)

The Rendon deal was an eye-popper. 

Too many folks writing Riley off too soon, IMHO.

Donaldson gotta be looking for 4/120 this morning. If teams are going to be stupid, he's going to capitalize.


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## HermanMerman (Dec 12, 2019)

Kris Bryant....


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## dirtnap (Dec 12, 2019)

I believe they’re going with a Riley, Camargo competition at third. As far as a starter goes we’ve already added by releasing Teheran. Bumgardner is interesting but I think we’ve got enough old used to be’s


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## elfiii (Dec 12, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Donaldson gotta be looking for 4/120 this morning. If teams are going to be stupid, he's going to capitalize.



It's pro ball so playing for the money on a losing team or one that's not going to contend is no big deal if you're at the back end of your career. I wish he had the fire in his belly and was willing to make a concession to stay with the Braves. I'm willing to bet AA has not been greenlighted to go after him though in spite of the rumors Liberty has loosened up the purse strings some.


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## Coenen (Dec 12, 2019)

elfiii said:


> It's pro ball so playing for the money on a losing team or one that's not going to contend is no big deal if you're at the back end of your career. I wish he had the fire in his belly and was willing to make a concession to stay with the Braves. I'm willing to bet AA has not been greenlighted to go after him though in spite of the rumors Liberty has loosened up the purse strings some.


...and he still might. 

I saw him getting about what he got last season; 23-25mil/year for 2 years, plus a couple of option years. This Rendon deal really threw that thinking of out whack though. That truly is "stupid money," as our friends in Philthadelphia might say. If someone is gonna give him well North of  25mil/season for 3+ seasons, let them. That's a bad contract, and they can deal with it.


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## biggdogg (Dec 13, 2019)

Oddly enough, the Rangers, who were expected to drive a Brinks truck to his house, have apparently backed out of the Donaldson sweepstakes because they feel his price is too high. And yet the Braves are still at the table. I think all he is waiting for is a 3 year guarantee with an option for a 4th year that includes a hefty buyout from AA.

As for Bryant, a package for him would undoubtedly have to include Riley. And there are rumblings that they want Folty or Fried in the deal. No thanks. You're giving up your 3B of the future and all but guaranteeing yourself that you'll be looking for a 3B in two years. I could possibly see moving Folty, but Fried is a hard pass.


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## DannyW (Dec 13, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Too many folks writing Riley off too soon, IMHO.



I haven't written him off yet. But while he flashed the first couple months after his call-up, the last two months he looked over matched and like he didn't belong. In pitchers parlance he was an "out"...all you had to do is get two strikes and then throw a slider down and away. Strike three. His pitch recognition has to improve.


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## Coenen (Dec 13, 2019)

DannyW said:


> I haven't written him off yet. But while he flashed the first couple months after his call-up, the last two months he looked over matched and like he didn't belong. In pitchers parlance he was an "out"...all you had to do is get two strikes and then throw a slider down and away. Strike three. His pitch recognition has to improve.


Rookies often struggle, I'm told. They also often improve.


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## dirtnap (Dec 13, 2019)

I think Camargo is underrated as an every day 3b. Last year he struggled off the bench but lots of guys struggle off the bench. Some guys makeup is better that way


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## elfiii (Dec 13, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> I think Camargo is underrated as an every day 3b. Last year he struggled off the bench but lots of guys struggle off the bench. Some guys makeup is better that way



He looked pretty good at the start of the season last year when he was getting regular reps. I just don't know if he's got the "next level" stuff inside him or not. His D is excellent but his hitting dropped way off as the season progressed.


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## elfiii (Dec 13, 2019)

Coenen said:


> ...and he still might.
> 
> I saw him getting about what he got last season; 23-25mil/year for 2 years, plus a couple of option years. This Rendon deal really threw that thinking of out whack though. That truly is "stupid money," as our friends in Philthadelphia might say. If someone is gonna give him well North of  25mil/season for 3+ seasons, let them. That's a bad contract, and they can deal with it.



I hope so. Donaldson's still got some real good years left in him. It would be great to settle 3B for the next 3-4 years.


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## Coenen (Dec 13, 2019)

They signed some guy to a minor league deal today, dude sort of looks like Dansby Swanson, Charles E. Somethingorother.


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## dirtnap (Dec 13, 2019)

?


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## Patriot44 (Dec 14, 2019)

Coenen said:


> They signed some guy to a minor league deal today, dude sort of looks like Dansby Swanson, Charles E. Somethingorother.


It was the signing of Albies, Dansby and Accuna that was the demise of Simmons being with the Braves.

I am a HUGE fan of farm systems and the Braves are back to doing the way that they did in the early 90's. The days of having one or two superstars that eat up all of the payroll are over and I for one am glad.

Having said that, 'Clutch' will be back in the Major's by June.


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## Coenen (Dec 14, 2019)

Hopefully he's able to come back 100% from his injury. Hard to believe he didn't get a more substantial offer from another team. Good player, and a good guy. He'll have a chance to play his way back onto the field at his own pace; That said, I agree with your timeline.


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## James12 (Dec 14, 2019)

Still possible the Braves overpay for a .259 avg and for 4 years.


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## DannyW (Dec 20, 2019)

Internet rumor has Donaldson signing over the next few days, and certainly before the end of the year. The teams in the hunt are Washington and Atlanta, and Texas as a long shot.

A four year guaranteed contract seems to be the sticking point. Best guesses seem to be he is holding out for 4 years and around $100 million. Apparently both the Braves and Nationals are reluctant to give a 4 year guarantee to a 34 YO 3rd baseman.

One article I read stated that Donaldson is protecting his financial future by holding out for 4 yr and $100 million. I chuckled. He has already made over $70 million in his career, and if he needs $100 million more to protect "his financial future" I would argue that he needs a good accountant worse....geez.


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## westcobbdog (Dec 20, 2019)

Without a big stick behind Freddie we are in trouble.


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## James12 (Dec 20, 2019)

westcobbdog said:


> Without a big stick behind Freddie we are in trouble.



Blows my mind that most of Braves Country seem ok with this level production for that price and tenure.


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## biggdogg (Dec 20, 2019)

There are also rumblings that the Braves are also checking in on the market for Francisco Lindor and Nolan Arrenado should Donaldson sign elsewhere.


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## dirtnap (Dec 20, 2019)

No way I’d give him 4 years. His legs are a ticking time bomb


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## biggdogg (Dec 20, 2019)

Honestly, if given a chance to get Arrenado without gutting the farm, I'd take him over Donaldson in a heartbeat and take a chance that he doesn't opt out of his contract in 2 years.


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## elfiii (Dec 20, 2019)

dirtnap said:


> No way I’d give him 4 years. His legs are a ticking time bomb



It's that 4th year that's a problem. If he wants a 4 year deal he's gonna have to back down on the money.


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## DannyW (Dec 21, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> There are also rumblings that the Braves are also checking in on the market for Francisco Lindor and Nolan Arrenado should Donaldson sign elsewhere.



Saw some of the same stuff...even adjusting for the Coor's Field effect, Arenado would be a huge upgrade over Donaldson. As a player I would probably choose Arenado over Rendon...maybe. But I just don't see Liberty Media taking on a long term $30+ million AAV contract.

As for Lindor, he would also be an upgrade over Donaldson...assuming his skillset transfers from SS to 3rd base. But he would be a 2-year rental as he is a free agent after 2021. And as a 28 YO free agent he will get one of those monster contracts like Harper, Machado, etc.

And of course AA would have to include a pile of prospects to get either player....Arenado and Lindor are two of the best position players in MLB.

Riley could make this easy if he learns to lay off down and away sliders.


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## Coenen (Dec 21, 2019)

Arenado's Home/Away splits are eye opening; OPS - .995/.799 ouch.


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## elfiii (Dec 21, 2019)

DannyW said:


> Riley could make this easy if he learns to lay off down and away sliders.



He can't hit 'em and he can't lay off of them. It got to the point it was almost depressing when he came to bat. He was a for sure out for the opposing pitcher.


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## James12 (Dec 21, 2019)

elfiii said:


> He can't hit 'em and he can't lay off of them. It got to the point it was almost depressing when he came to bat. He was a for sure out for the opposing pitcher.



After a few weeks of tape on him, they figured him out and shut him down


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## DannyW (Dec 21, 2019)

James12 said:


> After a few weeks of tape on him, they figured him out and shut him down



Like I have said before, the pitchers adjusted and he didn't. Not a good sign.

It got to the point that when he had two strikes, I knew, the pitcher knew, Snitker knew, and the beer guy in Aisle 302 knew, that he was going to get a down and away slider...yet he still swung...and missed.

Don't misunderstand me....I have NOT given up on him. But I have taken the attitude of "prove me wrong"....hopefully he does.


----------



## Coenen (Dec 22, 2019)

Keuchel to the White Sox, 3/$55.5mill with a 4th year option that would drive the total value to $74mil. GM's all around Baseball have gone and lost their collective minds. 

AA looking [more] like a genius for getting Acuña and Albies done last season.


----------



## DannyW (Dec 22, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Keuchel to the White Sox, 3/$55.5mill with a 4th year option that would drive the total value to $74mil. GM's all around Baseball have gone and lost their collective minds.
> 
> AA looking [more] like a genius for getting Acuña and Albies done last season.



That's insane...Keuchel has had 3 great seasons out of 8 years in MLB. The other 5 years his ERA hovered between 3.75 and and 5.27. And frankly he looked like a back end of the rotation pitcher last year.


----------



## Horns (Dec 22, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Keuchel to the White Sox, 3/$55.5mill with a 4th year option that would drive the total value to $74mil. GM's all around Baseball have gone and lost their collective minds.
> 
> AA looking [more] like a genius for getting Acuña and Albies done last season.


No way I would give him anything close to that. He’s like Glavine was. He has to locate or it’s gonna be a long day for the home team


----------



## Coenen (Dec 22, 2019)

Horns said:


> No way I would give him anything close to that. He’s like Glavine was. He has to locate or it’s gonna be a long day for the home team


Glavine's bugaboo was the first couple innings, once he got a lathered up a bit and settled in he was really solid. Not a lot of pitchers have that anymore; hence all of the analytics saying not to let a starter see the lineup too many times.


----------



## Patriot44 (Dec 22, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Glavine's bugaboo was the first couple innings, once he got a lathered up a bit and settled in he was really solid. Not a lot of pitchers have that anymore; hence all of the analytics saying not to let a starter see the lineup too many times.


Pitch counts have killed the art of pitching.


----------



## Coenen (Dec 22, 2019)

Patriot44 said:


> Pitch counts have killed the art of pitching.


Throwing hard has killed the art of pitching.


----------



## James12 (Dec 31, 2019)

If the Braves added a 4th year to the option, they may be as ridiculous as the previous regime.  Good grief.

https://atlallday.com/2019/12/30/atlanta-braves-rumored-added-4th-year-josh-donaldson/


----------



## James12 (Dec 31, 2019)

Coenen said:


> Keuchel to the White Sox, 3/$55.5mill with a 4th year option that would drive the total value to $74mil. GM's all around Baseball have gone and lost their collective minds.
> 
> AA looking [more] like a genius for getting Acuña and Albies done last season.



Both Acuna and Albies will re-up soon if they keep trending up.


----------



## biggdogg (Dec 31, 2019)

It's a gamble one way or the other. Either you're giving up several high end prospects for 2 years of Kris Bryant, or hoping Donaldson is still productive at 37.


[QUOTE="James12, post: 12064983, member: 130356"]Both Acuna and Albies will re-up soon if they keep trending up.[/QUOTE]

Freeman is the next to be re-signed. Albies is signed through 2026, Acuna through 2029...


----------



## James12 (Dec 31, 2019)

biggdogg said:


> It's a gamble one way or the other. Either you're giving up several high end prospects for 2 years of Kris Bryant, or hoping Donaldson is still productive at 37.
> 
> 
> [QUOTE="James12, post: 12064983, member: 130356"]Both Acuna and Albies will re-up soon if they keep trending up.



Freeman is the next to be re-signed. Albies is signed through 2026, Acuna through 2029...[/QUOTE]

....and you think Acuna will show up for the next 9 yrs playing at this level for 10mil?  Not a chance, they’ll have to re-up him sooner than later.


----------



## James12 (Dec 31, 2019)

Donaldson will be 38 at the 4th year.  He batted .259, and is injury prone.  It just doesn’t make sense to me.  Just my opinion though....


----------



## Raylander (Dec 31, 2019)

Bad deal if they pay him 4 years.

Wouldn’t even entertain Bryant.. I’d get Arenado, and then re-sign Fred this offseason. Acuña, Albies, FF, Arenado would’ve the best 1-4 in MLB. It’d be nice to have a perennial GG/MVP candidate at both corners..


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Dec 31, 2019)

> James12, post:
> 
> If the Braves added a 4th year to the option, they may be as ridiculous as the previous regime. Good grief.
> 
> https://atlallday.com/2019/12/30/atlanta-braves-rumored-added-4th-year-josh-donaldson/





> *Atlanta Braves Rumored To Added 4th Year For Josh Donaldson*
> 
> *22 hours ago*





> With the Nationals and Twins both offering four-year deals, reportedly, Donaldson was keeping the Braves alive in hope of returning to Atlanta with a four-year deal from the Braves. Reportedly, the Braves have added that extra year for the star free agent.





> Jim Bowden, a former GM and now of The Athletic, is reporting that the Braves have stepped up their offer by adding the fourth year onto the deal. While this isn’t confirmed by anyone else in the baseball universe, don’t be shocked to learn that this could be true.



Thanks for the heads up on the latest rumor.

Tons of competition for desperate sports nuts to be the 1st to report improved potential chances of Donaldson re-joining the Braves with a deal for the next several years.

Lots of sports reports this month were expecting Braves to eventually move out of their comfort zone to offer a 4th year deal if other offers are close enough.

I can see being able to make a case for Braves going either way, but Donaldson's slow start last season & falling off batting production the last part of the season hurt his deal negotiations, to go obviously with his older age considerations in potentially the last stages of his career. Of course, none of us no what the future holds or if Josh can stay healthy.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28307993/predicting-where-mlb-top-remaining-free-agents-sign



> *Predicting where MLB's top remaining free agents will sign*



Dec 29, 2019



> but I'll go with a return to the Braves. They'll have to go outside their payroll comfort zone to re-sign Donaldson, and it probably will take a four-year contract, but the front office shouldn't let that be a deterrent. This is a really good team that needs a cleanup hitter




AND 


https://tomahawktake.com/2019/12/30...y-now-offering-four-years-for-josh-donaldson/ 



> *Atlanta Braves reportedly now offering four years for Josh Donaldson*



1 day ago



> Bowden weighed in with multiple nuggets about Donaldson this morning during The Leadoff Show on MLB Network Radio





> “I have a source on the Donaldson side that has told me the Braves have gone to four years…. But my understand is that both the Nationals and the Braves along with the Twins have gone to four [years]”





> *Bowden also raised the specter that the ceiling for Donaldson’s services isn’t the $25 million annual rate that seems to have been assumed.* He’s suggesting that something even higher is likely at this point.





> “I had originally thought 3 years and 75 [million]. I quickly pivoted and went 4 at $100 [million] and then I went to 4 at $112, and now I’m not sure it isn’t more than that.”


----------



## biggdogg (Dec 31, 2019)

As much as I would love to see Arenado in Atlanta, AA would have to gut the farm system for just two years of his services. He has an opt-out in his contract after 2021, not to mention a full no-trade clause. And I just don't see AA ponying up the $35 mil a season for him. And whether they trade for Bryant or Arenado, Riley will be part of the deal, leaving the Braves without a third baseman in two years. IF they don't re-sign Donaldson (which would cost ZERO prospects), Bryant will more than likely be the target just on the difference in salary assumed and prospects given up to get him.


----------



## James12 (Jan 2, 2020)

It does appear the Braves have offered a 4-year contract along with Minnesota and Washington.  Man.... that’s a long time and a lot of money.  Hope he works out.  I think it’s a certainty he chooses the Braves if it’s a matter of just where now...


----------



## Raylander (Jan 2, 2020)

Riley sucks. That’s why we’re in this situation. We don’t have 3 years to see if he can hit a breaking ball (ala Francouer).. It is time to win now! Go get Arenado! Colorado doesnt expect a haul unless we require them to eat summa that $$. 

Who is gonna be excited when we are unable to retain Fried and/or Soroka bc we have a 38 year old 3B hitting .250 @ 25MM/yr??


----------



## James12 (Jan 2, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Riley sucks. That’s why we’re in this situation. We don’t have 3 years to see if he can hit a breaking ball (ala Francouer).. It is time to win now! Go get Arenado! Colorado doesnt expect a haul unless we require them to eat summa that $$.
> 
> Who is gonna be excited when we are unable to retain Fried and/or Soroka bc we have a 38 year old 3B hitting .250 @ 25MM/yr??



I think JD was an incredible addition to the lineup and team.  But thinking about locking up that kind of money for 4yrs does seem odd.  They don’t give up prospects by signing him though which I’m sure is weight in his negotiations.


----------



## Raylander (Jan 2, 2020)

James12 said:


> I think JD was an incredible addition to the lineup and team.  But thinking about locking up that kind of money for 4yrs does seem odd.  They don’t give up prospects by signing him though which I’m sure is weight in his negotiations.



I agree with JD being a great addition. I’d pay him handsomely for 2 years with an option for a 3rd. However I would not guarantee him a $100MM contract..

Prospects are just that, prospects. Most don’t pan out. Sell high while they have value. Another year of Riley swinging at balls and he aint worth bag of peanuts..


----------



## elfiii (Jan 2, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Another year of Riley swinging at balls and he aint worth bag of peanuts..



He sure didn't get better as time wore on. I don't know how much time he spent in batting practice but it wasn't enough. I hope he's worked on that during the off season.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 2, 2020)

Come on home Josh Donaldson with the Braves where you belong & keeping cleanup batter spot warm for you, & closer to your family.

C'mon & rejoin the team "for the children". 

C'mon & do it for Freddie, too.



12-seconds

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211446682065526785


15-seconds

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212237176865460225


6-seconds 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209843740623474688


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 2, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Riley sucks. That’s why we’re in this situation. We don’t have 3 years to see if he can hit a breaking ball (ala Francouer).. It is time to win now! Go get Arenado! Colorado doesnt expect a haul unless we require them to eat summa that $$.
> 
> Who is gonna be excited when we are unable to retain Fried and/or Soroka bc we have a 38 year old 3B hitting .250 @ 25MM/yr??



You do realize Arenado makes $35 mill a year with 7 years left on his deal, right? If he decides not to opt out in two years, you still face not having the money for Fried or Soroka (or Freeman for that matter...). If he does opt out, you gave up most likely 3 of the 4 best prospects in your system in Ian Anderson, Drew Waters, Wilson Contreras and Cristian Pache along with Riley, since Colarado will want a third baseman in return. Are you willing to bet that none of those come back to bite you? And then in two years you still have no third baseman? I'd love to see Arenado in Atlanta as much as the next guy, buy with Colorado not needing to dump salary or rebuild, you will have to sell the farm. That's why Frank Wren got fired.


----------



## James12 (Jan 2, 2020)

I’m calling a Braves signing here soon


----------



## Raylander (Jan 2, 2020)

elfiii said:


> He sure didn't get better as time wore on. I don't know how much time he spent in batting practice but it wasn't enough. I hope he's worked on that during the off season.



I’m hoping he is gone. Cut the fat. We just won the division back to back while in a ‘rebuild’ - as some folks call it.


biggdogg said:


> You do realize Arenado makes $35 mill a year with 7 years left on his deal, right? If he decides not to opt out in two years, you still face not having the money for Fried or Soroka (or Freeman for that matter...). If he does opt out, you gave up most likely 3 of the 4 best prospects in your system in Ian Anderson, Drew Waters, Wilson Contreras and Cristian Pache along with Riley, since Colarado will want a third baseman in return. Are you willing to bet that none of those come back to bite you? And then in two years you still have no third baseman? I'd love to see Arenado in Atlanta as much as the next guy, buy with Colorado not needing to dump salary or rebuild, you will have to sell the farm. That's why Frank Wren got fired.



Melanon comes off this year, hes @ 14mm
Hamels is @ 18mm

Neither of those fellas will return

I don’t think CO commands anywhere near that much unless they eat ALOT of that salary. I think Riley, Wright, and another mid level would get it done.. 

Frank Wren got fired for signing up players to egregious contracts. BJ Upton, Chris Johnson, among others..

No one will whine when we have rings..


----------



## James12 (Jan 2, 2020)

What was worse? Uggla’s, Upton’s or Mike Hampton’s?


----------



## Horns (Jan 2, 2020)

James12 said:


> What was worse? Uggla’s, Upton’s or Mike Hampton’s?


All 3 were atrocious


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 3, 2020)

Time for Donaldson to make a decision soon with spring training starting in several more weeks, mid-Feb. 

Several sports news folks still thinking Braves have a good chance at landing Josh on a 4-year deal. 



http://www.680thefan.com/2020/01/02...roster-moves-with-spring-training-in-6-weeks/ 



> Josh Donaldson is said to be seeking a four year commitment, with the Braves, Nationals and Dodgers remaining the most likely landing spots. The Rangers had been seeking to make a splash, but appear to have balked at a deal of that length. I’ve thought all along the Braves will find a way to make a Donaldson return a reality





> Nolan Arenado, whom the Rockies just signed to an eight year deal in 2019





> hard to believe Colorado would part ways with Arenado so quickly after inking that eight year, $260 million dollar deal





> I’ll predict Donaldson returns to Atlanta on a four year deal in the $110-$120 million dollar range.


----------



## James12 (Jan 3, 2020)

“I’ll predict Donaldson returns to Atlanta on a four year deal in the $110-$120 million dollar range.”

Wooooow


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 3, 2020)

James12 said:


> “I’ll predict Donaldson returns to Atlanta on a four year deal in the $110-$120 million dollar range.”
> 
> Wooooow


 Just thinking about that hurts me to my soul. Josh Donaldson did a great job for us this year it should be his last year. We need to go very big time player. Mediocrity is getting old


----------



## Coenen (Jan 4, 2020)

Allegedly...






treemanjohn said:


> Just thinking about that hurts me to my soul. Josh Donaldson did a great job for us this year it should be his last year. We need to go very big time player. Mediocrity is getting old


lolwut? Two seasons in the postseason and you're already tired of it? After a half dozen in the cellar?


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 4, 2020)

> 7:16 PM - 3 Jan 2020
> 
> #*Braves* will announce Josh Donaldson signing on Monday evening.
> 4 yrs/105 million guaranteed. Terms were agreed to around 3:00pm today. Contract is being finalized now.
> ...




Thanks for the potential good news or latest rumor which can fire fans up.

Nice having Braves stay in the hunt for JD.

Twins were supposed bowing out of the bidding last I heard.

No mention of the Dodgers this time being interested in offering a deal.

Like any rumor, this is still very questionable. 

Looking forward to more credible, reputable, well known sources leaking news out that support the rumor.

Will only believe it when it happens.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213298027219341317


----------



## Duff (Jan 4, 2020)

Man, idk. I got mixed feelings  about this. I sure hate for him to hit .210 and average 80 games per, the next 4 years. 

On the other hand, we definitely need him (healthy), hitting behind Freeman. If they have enough confidence to pay him that much, I guess I’m good with it. 

Go Braves!


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 4, 2020)

Coenen said:


> Allegedly...
> 
> 
> View attachment 997875
> ...


1999 was the last time the Braves were in the series.  Since then there's been 18 to 20 different teams in the series.  I call that mediocre especially considering the huge fanbase and new stadium....

The Braves could go after some talent, they can afford to. In Donaldsons biggest fan. I wouldn't have given him 4 years.  I would've sold the farm for Bryant, Arrenado, Betts....


----------



## Coenen (Jan 5, 2020)

If you're looking that long term, yes. I was thinking you were meaning just this most recent teardown and rebuild cycle.

Look around at all of the big-time franchises, and how their player procurement strategies have changed. Even the Yankees went back to a model more centered on growing their own talent. Selling the farm for a guy you might not retain risks not just the present, but the future as well.


----------



## James12 (Jan 5, 2020)

34yrs/.259
4/100+M ....daaaaadgum.


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 5, 2020)

James12 said:


> 34yrs/.259
> 4/100+M ....daaaaadgum.


Haha .259 average with 155 strikeouts!!!!  That's not good at all.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 5, 2020)

Reckon it's been fun pondering Donaldson's potential future.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213682943820017664


----------



## Patriot44 (Jan 5, 2020)

I am ok with this for one reason. Albies, Comargo, Swanson and Accuna along with a LOT of pitchers are all very young. We saw some immaturity at times last year with each of them and having another veteran out there for a few more years will go a long way.


----------



## Duff (Jan 5, 2020)

That’s a good point 44. I have very  few concerns if he is in the line up every day. Just concerned, especially in a couple of years


----------



## Patriot44 (Jan 5, 2020)

Duff said:


> That’s a good point 44. I have very  few concerns if he is in the line up every day. Just concerned, especially in a couple of years


I think we will be ok and this is the right move at the right time, IMO. (Note: this is why we are discussing, baseball is a thinking mans sport, not a Neanderthal thug sport ). This deal may not workout but I am a numbers guy- The youth of the Brave's also elevated his game from a few down years with the Blue Jays and Injuns (top row of the chart). Look at the right side of the chart, that is pretty darn consistent. You are going to get a .255-.275 hitter with a good glove and the youth are only going to push him to his best as we saw last year and vise versa. I'll take consistency all day long- Trout, Jeter, Chipper are anomalies. As a youth baseball coach in All-Star and Travel (and I know this is the Major's), nothing is worse than having an inconsistent player on the field. This is why the big $$$ teams of the 2000's while having had some success, most ended up with less rather than more, IMO. Think Uggla, Upson brothers, etc, etc.


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 5, 2020)

Hello Chicago this is the Braves. We want Bryant.  You can pick any 3 prospects you want. 

Hello Colorado this is the Braves.  We want Arenado. You can pick any 5 prospects you want


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 5, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Hello Chicago this is the Braves. We want Bryant.  You can pick any 3 prospects you want.
> 
> Hello Colorado this is the Braves.  We want Arenado. You can pick any 5 prospects you want



Considering you're willing to give up Pache, Waters and Anderson for a two year rental, all I can say is thank goodness you're not the GM.


----------



## mizzippi jb (Jan 5, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Hello Chicago this is the Braves. We want Bryant.  You can pick any 3 prospects you want.
> 
> Hello Colorado this is the Braves.  We want Arenado. You can pick any 5 prospects you want


SMH


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 6, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Considering you're willing to give up Pache, Waters and Anderson for a two year rental, all I can say is thank goodness you're not the GM.


How many "prospects" pan out? In Major League Baseball only 15 players contribute significantly. Acuna is an anomaly and even he had 188 strikeouts. Donaldson and Acuna combine for almost 350 strikeouts 

Arenado is signed through 2025 Bryant will have to do a trade and sign


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 6, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> How many "prospects" pan out? In Major League Baseball only 15 players contribute significantly. Acuna is an anomaly and even he had 188 strikeouts. Donaldson and Acuna combine for almost 350 strikeouts
> 
> Arenado is signed through 2025 Bryant will have to do a trade and sign





treemanjohn said:


> How many "prospects" pan out? In Major League Baseball only 15 players contribute significantly. Acuna is an anomaly and even he had 188 strikeouts. Donaldson and Acuna combine for almost 350 strikeouts
> 
> Arenado is signed through 2025 Bryant will have to do a trade and sign



Arenado makes $35 mil a season with an opt-out clause in his contract that he is all but certain to excercise after the '21 season, and he also has a full no-trade clause. Bryant is a Scott Boras client. Boras does not do extensions. Ever. Bryant can and will be a free agent after the '21 season. Both are guaranteed two season rentals. Both will command contracts along the lines of Rendon who the Braves made NO attempt to offer a contract to.

As far as prospects not panning out. Yes, a great many don't. Trading your best prospect for players you know will be short-term propositions is just bad business. But by all means, sell the farm for two years and then let's do another rebuild, because the last one was so much fun to watch.

And by the way, about half of the Braves starting lineup and two of the five starting pitchers were all top 20 prospects...


----------



## Dustin Pate (Jan 6, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Acuna is an anomaly and even he had 188 strikeouts. Donaldson and Acuna combine for almost 350 strikeouts



Very few people care about strike outs anymore. It has been the way the game has shifted in the last 10 years. Home runs are the way to score runs and these power hitters are going to have high strike out numbers getting those runs.


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 6, 2020)

Even Kris Bryant averages 150 K's a season...


----------



## elfiii (Jan 6, 2020)

Dustin Pate said:


> Very few people care about strike outs anymore. It has been the way the game has shifted in the last 10 years. Home runs are the way to score runs and these power hitters are going to have high strike out numbers getting those runs.



Yep because home runs put butts in the seats. I wish they would go back to playing baseball but there aren't enough people who like baseball to fill the seats.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 6, 2020)

Will not bother me if Braves can sign Donaldson to another 1-year deal for $23M again or even $25M to see if his bat can produce from start to finish for a whole season, instead of like last year when his bat did not heat up until approx. mid-June & dropped off the last part of the season, then let him have another go as a free agent next season in 2021.



https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-donaldson-rumors 

January 5, 2020



> _He is tied to Draft-pick compensation if he signs with a new team after being one of 10 players to receive the $17.8 million qualifying offer._



or 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rumors-trades-and-signings 



> *Are Braves the Donaldson favorites over Nats, Twins?*





> _Jan. 4:_ What was shaping up to be a three-team race for Josh Donaldson could be narrowing fast.





> The Nationals, Twins and Braves are the three clubs to offer Donaldson a four-year deal, sources confirmed to MLB.com. Meanwhile, the *34-year-old Donaldson has been waiting for a team to meet his asking price, which is believed to be in the $110 million range*, according to MLB Network insider Ken Rosenthal.


----------



## Raylander (Jan 6, 2020)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1918886/amp

I don’t believe Arenado commands anything near what some of y’all think. The Rockies desperately need to to cut payroll. Plus that opt-out weighs heavy in the minds of suitors. Obviously this article is pure speculation- however, if you wouldn’t send those players (or similar package) in trade for Arenado. You are stoned..


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 6, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1918886/amp
> 
> I don’t believe Arenado commands anything near what some of y’all think. The Rockies desperately need to to cut payroll. Plus that opt-out weighs heavy in the minds of suitors. Obviously this article is pure speculation- however, if you wouldn’t send those players (or similar package) in trade for Arenado. You are stoned..


 Smart man! Also no trade clauses is can be turned on and off like a light switch.

 Nolan is a very special player. They don't come along except every 3 or 4 years. I have no problem dumping a hot prospect or 5 for his talent. Every farm club has hot prospects, but getting a rubber to hit the road or having the ability to open up a roster spot to check them out is an easy


----------



## Raylander (Jan 6, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Smart man! Also no trade clauses is can be turned on and off like a light switch.
> 
> Nolan is a very special player. They don't come along except every 3 or 4 years. I have no problem dumping a hot prospect or 5 for his talent. Every farm club has hot prospects, but getting a rubber to hit the road or having the ability to open up a roster spot to check them out is an easy



IMO Waters is the only hot prospect on that list..


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 6, 2020)

I could see a package like that being ok. I've not seen anywhere where the Rockies are actively shopping him though. If they truly are desperate to move him, then theoretically it wouldn't take as much to land him. The caveat is that they hold all the cards. There will be more than a few teams desperate for a top end third baseman once Donaldson signs. The Rockies will get what they want if they decide to deal him.

And I don't see Colorado touching Toussaint with a ten foot pole. A fly ball pitcher that's prone to the long ball is a disaster waiting to happen in Coors...


----------



## James12 (Jan 6, 2020)

“If” it’s true and both Washington and Minnesota are bowing out, then that most likely means it’s down to the Braves and Braves... Sounds like JD’s agent did his job with the other teams, and got the Braves to spend and extend more than anyone would’ve ever thought they should’ve for this deal.  Win the Series, one of the boldest moves ever, lose and it’s another mediocre  day in Atlanta sports of a miss.  I say go get Nolan!  The taxpayers and fans for these Braves, they DESERVE IT.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 7, 2020)

Discussions this morning on sports radio with Jeff Francoeur, Dimino, & Cellini sounds encouraging for Braves landing Donaldson.  Also, wondering what Brian McCann knows about what's going down, which was hinted at.

Not sure how AA can justify paying Donaldson more than Freddie on a per year basis, in case this happens which could also bring problems to the team unless AA also restructures Freeman's new contract early now before he starts free agency after the season. 



https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-donaldson-likely-destinations-ranked 

*The Josh Donaldson suitor power rankings*

11:20 AM EST

*1. Atlanta Braves* 



> Donaldson’s reported asking price of four years, $110 million is quite a hike from what the Braves paid him for one year, and it would immediately make him the highest-paid player





> Ronald Acuña Jr., Ozzie Albies and Freddie Freeman signed club-friendly long-term extensions well before reaching free agency





> Braves are clearly trying to wait out Donaldson





> question may be one of who blinks first


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 9, 2020)

Still expecting Donaldson to choose the highest paid, longest contract deal he can get like most players would, but here's a bit of encouragement on best fit for Josh below.  

Also with the important Braves dates below, wonder if Donaldson will make it to the upcoming Chopfest event. 

Sounds like workers are in the process of renaming Braves' Suntrust Park. 



Time = 1:28 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213161873295720448


https://www.mlb.com/braves/news/braves-2020-season-important-dates 

*What awaits Braves in '20? Key dates and info*



> *When is Chop Fest?*
> The two-day event will begin with the Chop Fest Gala, which will be held on Jan. 24
> Chop Fest will resume on Jan. 25, when the Braves stage numerous activities within SunTrust Park and The Battery Atlanta





> Braves have until Jan. 10 to exchange salary figures with their arbitration-eligible players -- Shane Greene, Mike Foltynewicz, Adam Duvall, Dansby Swanson, Luke Jackson, Grant Dayton and Johan Camargo.





> *Spring Training dates*
> Pitchers and catchers will report on Feb. 12 and stage their first workout the following day. Position players will report on Feb. 17





> This will be the Braves’ first season in North Port, Fla. They will begin their 33-game exhibition season by welcoming the Orioles to CoolToday Park on Feb. 22





> *Opening Day*
> The Braves will travel to Arizona to open the 2020 season against the D-backs on March 26





> returning to Atlanta for their April 3 home opener against the Marlins





> *Who will bat cleanup?*
> Josh Donaldson remains the primary target. But the division-rival Nationals are also showing strong interest, and it remains to be seen whether the Braves will be willing to offer the fourth guaranteed year





680 The Fan retweeted: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1214990323887280129

6-seconds 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215024918397628417


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 10, 2020)

Reckon we have some recent activity.

Looks like the option to replace Donaldson with Cubs' Kris Bryant is off the table with his new 1-year contract for $18.6-Million.

Dodgers may be back after Donaldson.

Dansby Swanson & Folty agreed to their new deals & skipping arbitration.



https://www.mlb.com/news/kris-bryant-cubs-avoid-arbitration

or

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28458690/sources-kris-bryant-cubs-reach-1-year-186m-deal

*Kris Bryant, Cubs reach 1-year, $18.6M deal*

12:52 PM ET




https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-donaldson-rumors

*Could Dodgers jump back in on Donaldson?*

January 9, 2020



> _Jan. 9:_ Although Donaldson has received four-year offers from three teams (Braves, Nationals, Twins), the market for the veteran third baseman has reached a standstill. That could give the Dodgers an opening to jump back into the mix, MLB Network insider Ken Rosenthal writes





> Rosenthal previously noted that Donaldson was holding out for a team to offer him $110 million. However, based on recent reports, Washington might be the only club close to that mark.





> Mark Bowman, some industry sources have expressed doubt that the Braves have come close to making the top offer for Donaldson





> Darren Wolfson gets the sense that the Twins' offer is closer to the $80 million to $85 million range





> Nats' additions of infielders Starlin Castro, Asdrúbal Cabrera and Eric Thames make it unlikely they'll increase their offer from a reported $100 million over four years





> Washington is known to utilize deferrals in its big-money contracts






https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-2020-arbitration-roundup

*Foltynewicz, Swanson avoid arbitration*

12:05 PM EST



> Braves avoided arbitration with right-hander Mike Foltynewicz ($6.425 million) and shortstop Dansby Swanson ($3.15 million) before Friday's 1 p.m. ET deadline






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215657646918918146


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 10, 2020)

Looks like there are more updates on Braves player agreements below . . .

Looks like Shane Greene is the only player going to arbitration in Feb.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215720713044271106



https://www.mlb.com/news/topic/braves-press-releases

*Braves Press Releases *

*Braves agree to terms with six players*

2:45 PM EST



> salary arbitration on one-year, *non-guaranteed contracts* for the 2020 season





> Braves agreed to terms with pitchers LHP Grant Dayton ($655,000), RHP Luke Jackson ($1.825 million), and RHP Mike Foltynewicz ($6.425 million), infielders Johan Camargo ($1.7 million) and Dansby Swanson ($3.15 million), and outfielder Adam Duvall ($3.25 million)






https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28457943/2020-mlb-arbitration-tracker-follow-january-10-deadline

*2020 MLB arbitration tracker: Follow along at January 10 deadline*



> *Atlanta Braves:*
> 
> Contract agreements: Dansby Swanson ($3.125 million), Mike Foltynewicz ($6.425 million); Johan Camargo ($1.7 million); Adam Duvall ($3.25 million); Grant Dayton ($655,000); Luke Jackson ($1.825 million)






https://www.mlb.com/braves/news/braves-2020-arbitration-roundup

*Folty, Dansby among 6 Braves to agree to deals*

*Reliever Greene exchanges arbitration figures with club *

an hour ago



> Adam Duvall, Johan Camargo, Luke Jackson and Grant Dayton also reached agreements. But because an agreement was not reached with right-handed reliever Shane Greene, it appears he will have his 2020 salary determined during an arbitration hearing.





> Greene’s request and the Braves’ offer have not yet been revealed





> Foltynewicz’s salary will rise from $5.475 million to $6.425 million





> Swanson’s salary rises from $585,000 to $3.15 million





> Duvall’s salary will rise from $2.875 million to $3.25 million





> Camargo agreed to a $1.7 million deal





> Jackson will make $1.825 million





> Dayton made 14 appearances for the Braves in 2019, his first action since undergoing Tommy John surgery in '17. The left-handed reliever agreed to a $655,000 salary.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215737448908689409


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 10, 2020)

Bryant was going to get that money whether he was traded or not. All that one year deal does is keeps him and the Cubs from going through an arbitration hearing. The only reason he's still a Cub right now is that grievance hearing about his eligibility for free agency. Once that's settled, he'll be filling out change of address forms.


----------



## James12 (Jan 10, 2020)

Looks like AA is good at poker.


----------



## Dustin Pate (Jan 14, 2020)

Looks like Donaldson to Minnesota. We are a month from spring training without a cleanup hitter or third baseman.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 14, 2020)

Dustin Pate said:


> Looks like Donaldson to Minnesota. We are a month from spring training without a cleanup hitter or third baseman.



Just saw that.  Gonna be tougher without his level of team contributions.  Gotta hope younger talent can developer quicker to sustain good performance. Here's a few more details below.



https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-donaldson-deal-twins

*Donaldson, Twins agree to 4-year deal*

15 minutes ago



> deal is worth *$92 million* and includes a *fifth-year option* that can increase the* total value of the contract to $100 million*




or


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28485986/3b-josh-donaldson-agrees-4-year-deal-twins-source-says

*3B Josh Donaldson agrees to 4-year, $92M deal with Twins*

7:59 PM ET



> will pay him $84 million over the first four years and includes a $16 million club option with an $8 million buyout. In total, the deal includes $92 million in guaranteed money, with a chance to increase to $104 million in value if Donaldson hits escalators on the option


----------



## Duff (Jan 14, 2020)

Dang


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 14, 2020)

I'm glad the Braves offered no counter. 4 years guaranteed for $82 mil with an option for a 5th year at $16 mil with an $8 mil buyout. So he essentially got $90 mil guaranteed.

Curious to see how much attention turns to Bryant now...


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 14, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> I'm glad the Braves offered no counter. 4 years guaranteed for $82 mil with an option for a 5th year at $16 mil with an $8 mil buyout. So he essentially got $90 mil guaranteed.
> 
> Curious to see how much attention turns to Bryant now...



Too late, Cubs' Kris Bryant already signed a 1-year $18.6 Million deal last week.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28458690/sources-kris-bryant-cubs-reach-1-year-186m-deal 

*Kris Bryant, Cubs reach 1-year, $18.6M deal*


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 14, 2020)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Too late, Cubs' Kris Bryant already signed a 1-year $18.6 Million deal last week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not so. All that did was keep the Cubs and Bryant from going to arbitration. Had he been traded before the agreement, the team acquiring him would have either had to come to terms or gone through arbitration. That is a formality. He will still likely be traded once the grievance on his service time is settled. Should he win the grievance (highly unlikely) he's a free agent at seasons end. Should the Cubs win (highly likely) he won't be a free agent until after next season. He'll be eligible for his final year of arbitration and will sign one more one year deal before hitting the open market (and he's a Boras client,  so he WILL hit the open market...). It's the same thing the Braves just did with Folty and Dansby. Just settled on a paycheck for the season.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 14, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Not so. All that did was keep the Cubs and Bryant from going to arbitration. Had he been traded before the agreement, the team acquiring him would have either had to come to terms or gone through arbitration. That is a formality. He will still likely be traded once the grievance on his service time is settled. Should he win the grievance (highly unlikely) he's a free agent at seasons end. Should the Cubs win (highly likely) he won't be a free agent until after next season. He'll be eligible for his final year of arbitration and will sign one more one year deal before hitting the open market (and he's a Boras client,  so he WILL hit the open market...). It's the same thing the Braves just did with Folty and Dansby. Just settled on a paycheck for the season.



Thanks for offering a bit of hope.

Yep, unlikely Bryant wins grievance, likely Cubs win.

Agent Boras has a great track record with great players getting great deals as we've seen recently the last few months, but also over past years.

Freddie Freeman needs to be a Boras client to get his well deserved great deal after this coming season in his free agency or during the season with Braves' AA to extend his contract, but as in the past Freddie tends to lean towards team friendly lesser deals.  I would not like to see him leave the Braves, but I prefer players get the best deal they can with whatever team they choose.


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 15, 2020)

No one in sports is unattainable.  Everyone and everything has a price


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 16, 2020)

Not expecting, but with JD gone here's some thoughts below about Braves & Nolan Arenado . . . 



https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-arenado-potential-trade-teams 

*3 hypothetical Arenado deals: TEX, STL, ATL*

January 15, 2020



> *THE CASE FOR THE BRAVES*





> *THE BRAVES’ OFFER:*





> *THE VERDICT*





> Nolan, thanks for everything you've done for us ... and we hope you enjoy your time in Atlanta.





> But ultimately, we’re choosing the Braves because . . .


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 16, 2020)

IF Arenado would be willing to waive that opt-out, then trading Anderson wouldn't that hard to take. Heck, if he won't waive it, then give them Contreras (or Wright if they insist on a pitcher) in Anderson's place... still a good deal.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 16, 2020)

Braves sign more infield help from last season . . . 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217951277369393153


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 17, 2020)

I'd like to see Matt Joyce come back and round out the bench.


----------



## elfiii (Jan 17, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> I'd like to see Matt Joyce come back and round out the bench.



He's a great clutch pinch hitter and his D is solid.


----------



## Patriot44 (Jan 17, 2020)

I am actually pretty ticked about JD. I think that he brought leadership to a team that he was having fun with that lacked older players. 

Call me cray-cray, but I think that was a bad move. 

My son does BP with Camargo's hitting coach and I don't think Camargo is all that and a hot bowl of grits. He may be a bowl of grits, but outfield grits. I hope that I am wrong.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 17, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> I'd like to see Matt Joyce come back and round out the bench.



Lots of us expect him back as long as he continues going with him being a more lower budget item. Will not surprise me if lots of these lower budget deals have been done for a while but just not announced so as to spread the annc'ts over time to give the fan base something to be happy about, especially after disappointments happen like the losing JD news which was a bit offset by Braves shortly afterwards announcing the good news in keeping Hechavarria.


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 17, 2020)

The Braves lowballed JD.  It makes me think something else is in the works and JD was considered an"in the pocket" player


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 18, 2020)

Appears Braves trying to rehab a struggling lefty in the minors bringing in DFA-ed 33-YO Colorado Chris Rusin.  

Wonder if this hints at Rockies having other deal discussions with Atlanta, maybe even about Arenado.



https://www.mlb.com/braves/news/chris-rusin-signs-minor-league-deal-with-braves 

*Braves agree to Minors deal with Rusin*

1:38 PM EST



> Braves have agreed to a Minor League deal with left-hander Chris Rusin, according to a report from MLB Network insider Ken Rosenthal. The club hasn't confirmed the deal, which is said to include a Spring Training invite.





> Rusin, 33, made just two appearances in the Majors with the Rockies last season, as he opened the year on the injured list with a mid-back strain and was designated for assignment -- and subsequently outrighted to Triple-A Albuquerque -- in June.


----------



## James12 (Jan 18, 2020)

He did an interview with WSBTV from the golf event he’s at, says Braves didn’t offer until a day or so before he decided.  Amazing how media reports can skew what’s real.


----------



## westcobbdog (Jan 18, 2020)

Liberty Media screwed all the Braves fans royally, cheapskates


----------



## James12 (Jan 18, 2020)

I wouldn’t say they made a mistake because they didn’t need 4yrs locked up, but a fair 2-3yr offer with a 4th yr club option would’ve been nice!


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 18, 2020)

I can't see a scenario where Donaldson stays healthy for 4 years.  Braves did it right.  Also Freeman is coming up for a bunch of commas.  

I would like to see the Braves steal Moran from the Pirates.  He would be an excellent acquisition. 

Come on Mookie!!!!!


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 18, 2020)

Yep, saw that Josh Donaldson interview yesterday or Friday with WSB-TV sports while he was at a Florida golf course LPGA pro-am  tournament.  Just found that content along with another interview with 11Alive sports that I'll post below.



https://www.wsbtv.com/sports/mlb/at...re-not-same-realm/O7QOVDIQ3NHN5NE7TUBTSMSBGA/

*Donaldson on leaving Braves: *
*Other offers were not in ‘same realm’*


> Donaldson spoke to Channel 2′s Alison Mastrangelo after an LPGA pro-am event in Orlando on Friday.




61-seconds

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218264742499901442

57-seconds

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218282791928057856

AND


Time = 6:22





*Josh Donaldson talks about time spent with Braves as he heads to Minnesota Twins*

11Alive

Jan 17, 2020


> Donaldson spoke with 11Alive's Maria Martin about his baseball career and his love for another sport - golf.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 20, 2020)

Not coming across a Donaldson public thank you to the Braves yet this last season to help him rehab & restart his career after 2 seasons of injuries when he was only able to play a third of the games each year.



Appears Braves will attempt to rehab struggling 33-YO (turns 34 in April) Seattle Mariners RHP Felix Hernandez by signing him to a 1-year $1-Million Minor League deal (if he is added to Atlanta’s 40-man roster) with an invite to Spring Training.



https://www.mlb.com/news/felix-hernandez-deal-with-braves

*King Félix agrees to deal with Braves*

26 minutes ago



> Braves have signed Hernández to a Minor League deal that includes an invitation to big league Spring Training, and the 2010 American League Cy Young Award winner will draw a $1 million salary if he is added to Atlanta’s 40-man roster





> Hernández earned six All-Star selections while producing an AL-best 2.83 ERA over the 230 starts made for the Mariners from 2009-15. The 33-year-old right-hander posted a 3.83 ERA in 2016. But he lost his elite status while constructing a 5.42 ERA over just 60 appearances (59 starts) over the past three seasons.





> Multiple injuries have plagued Hernández over the past few years. He missed two months in 2017 with right shoulder inflammation and was sidelined for three months this past summer with a right shoulder strain. His decline led him to be briefly moved to Seattle’s bullpen in 2018.











OR


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28525234/felix-hernandez-gets-minor-league-deal-braves

*Felix Hernandez gets minor league deal with Braves*

5:52 PM ET



> right-hander would get a $1 million, one-year contract if added to Atlanta's 40-man roster





> coming off his worst season in the majors





> lost his place in the rotation





> Hernandez was among the best and more durable pitchers in the majors for more than a decade, a stretch that included six All-Star selections and the 2010 AL Cy Young Award




AND


https://www.mlb.com/player/felix-hernandez-433587

or

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/6194

*Félix Hernández*


----------



## Horns (Jan 20, 2020)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Not coming across a Donaldson public thank you to the Braves yet this last season to help him rehab & restart his career after 2 seasons of injuries when he was only able to play a third of the games each year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know last year was his worst ever but this is a no brainer to sign him. He was the best pitcher of his era


----------



## KyDawg (Jan 20, 2020)

They did not risk anything on him. Probably for a good reason. As the article said he is a shell of his former self.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 20, 2020)

Arenado does not sound like a happy camper with the Rockies.  Reckon the Braves could make a happy home for him.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28526169/nolan-arenado-says-had-lot-disrespect-people-rockies

8:34 PM ET



> general manager Jeff Bridich





> "There's a lot of disrespect from people there that I don't want to be a part of. You can quote that," he told MLB.com.





> Arenado didn't specify why he feels disrespected, but did tell MLB.com that he isn't upset at the trade rumors, which linked him to the Atlanta Braves and St. Louis Cardinals, among others, this offseason.





> "With the season coming up and spring training on the horizon, we are going to start focusing on that," Bridich told the Post. "We have listened to teams regarding Nolan and really nothing has come of it. We are going to move forward pretty much as we expected -- with Nolan in the purple and black and as our third baseman.





> Asked by MLB.com about Bridich's comments, Arenado continued: "You ask what I thought of Jeff's quotes and I say I don't care what people say around there. There is a lot of disrespect."





> A five-time All-Star and a seven-time Gold Glover, the 28-year-old Arenado hit .315 with 41 home runs and 118 RBIs in 2019.




OR


https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-arenado-responds-to-trade-rumors

*Nolan not happy with current situation*

39 minutes ago



> Arenado, who is due $35 million in 2020





> Other clubs first approached the Rockies about Gray, then turned their attention to Arenado during the Winter Meetings. Bridich said at the time the talks were more due diligence than momentum toward a deal.





> “Look, this is the time of year where those conversations happen. This is the time of year where we at least listen to teams and go, 'OK, well, should we try to investigate and put something together?' That's what these jobs are. We have people to do those sorts of things. I can't sit here and go, 'No, never, ever.'”


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 21, 2020)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


>


Don't be surprised if the Braves pull this off.  Like I said.  Rockies you want prospects? Send me a Bluebird bus. I'll load it for you just send me Nolan and his gear


----------



## James12 (Jan 21, 2020)

Nolan is done in COL.  He’s claiming disrespect now, publicly.


----------



## westcobbdog (Jan 21, 2020)

Well the Braves ( liberty media ) just dissed Josh and all us fans, offering Josh Donaldson nothing until 1-2 days before he signed with the twins, clearly illustrating they are not “all in” instead on a budget looking for budget deals, ticks me off. This is coming straight from JD in today’s al jazeera constitution.


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

Considering his injury history and the fact he and his agent made it clear that the Braves would have the opportunity to make the final offer, there really wasn't any reason to present a deal to his agent until he actually had legitimate offers on the table. The Twins didn't even enter the conversation until the last few weeks. And they came out of the gates at 4 years. The Braves were pretty up front that they had no reservations about a two or three year deal. Four years was iffy from the get-go and five was obviously a deal breaker.

Minnesota over paid in my opinion.


----------



## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 21, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Don't be surprised if the Braves pull this off.  Like I said.  Rockies you want prospects? Send me a Bluebird bus. I'll load it for you just send me Nolan and his gear



I like your positive outlook & optimism which helps give me some hope, but I'll believe it when I see it. 

This would be one of the few things left to help AA save face after losing JD to the Twins which appears to most I know that they went overboard as a bad deal for the team in the long term, but I'm usually pulling for the player to get biggest, longest deal they can get so I'm glad for Donaldson while being disappointed for the Braves.  Hope he can stay healthy & can stay away from past leg injuries.

Seems like buyers remorse (with a few exceptions) sets in shortly like after a year or two or three when their budgets usually appear to be out of control or over extended in their commitments & they start dumping or trading players.

We've seen what AA usually does which is not making long term deals (except for young lower budget talent like Acuna & Albies), not trading away top talent, etc., but somehow finding & acquiring needed talent to fill holes on the team, which I expect most of us are hoping for on that last item.

Of course, none of us knows all the details, but sometimes we get surprised by deals made by teams.

Here's Part 2 of the previous Arenado news items below. Seems like there is plenty of motivation by Nolan & the team to find a way to move him in a deal with another team.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...do-ire-rooted-rockies-inactivity-71-91-season

*Nolan Arenado's ire rooted in Rockies' inactivity after 71-91 season*

2:22 AM ET



> Executives involved in the discussions told ESPN that Colorado's demands were excessive enough that no deal has come close to being finalized. The Rockies, sources said, have sought a significant return for Arenado, despite the size and structure of his contract.





> He holds both a full no-trade clause and an opt-out clause that allows him to void the deal after the 2021 season. Currently, Arenado is owed $234 million over the next seven years. Were he to opt out, he would leave $164 million on the table and reach free agency at 30 years old.





> Rockies spent a franchise-record $178.9 million on payroll last year; and with a payroll that currently would exceed $170 million





> Rockies' disastrous forays into free agency in 2017 and 2018 -- . . . -- have hamstrung them financially


----------



## elfiii (Jan 21, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Minnesota over paid in my opinion.



My thoughts too. The problem is Liberty is not going to get off their wallet to put a premier team on the field. I don't know why they even bought the team. They aren't serious about winning it all and it's obvious.


----------



## James12 (Jan 21, 2020)

Nolan is ready to leave for sure.  He has spoken.


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

Nolan is ready to leave Colorado. But he won't be headed to Atlanta. Bet on it. These guys that are willing to sell the farm for him must have really enjoyed that last rebuild...


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

Marcell Ozuna is your new power bat. I'm betting either Ender or Duvall will be filling out change if address forms in the near future. If not both...


----------



## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

Braves just inked Ozuna to 1 yr@ 18MM. We now have a cleanup hitter that batted .241 last year  $10 and a cold beer says Fred leads the league in walks this year.

Watch the Nats pick up Arenado @ the deadline. Then we can watch him smash us for 18 games a year.


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Braves just inked Ozuna to 1 yr@ 18MM. We now have a cleanup hitter that batted .241 last year  $10 and a cold beer says Fred leads the league in walks this year.
> 
> Watch the Nats pick up Arenado @ the deadline. Then we can watch him smash us for 18 games a year.



Freeman probably will lead the league in walks. He was 8th in the league WITH Donaldson behind him. So what's your point.

At this point, nothing AA can do will appease anyone...


----------



## Duff (Jan 21, 2020)

I like it. At least their not sitting on their hands. Good get!


----------



## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Freeman probably will lead the league in walks. He was 8th in the league WITH Donaldson behind him. So what's your point.
> 
> At this point, nothing AA can do will appease anyone...



My point is 1st is higher than 8th. Taking the bat outta the hands of our best hitter seems counterproductive..

Let me know how winning in AAA and filling up the ‘top prospect’ lists goes for you. I’d prefer a ring.. Being mediocre sucks buddy


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 21, 2020)

Ozuna is a great glove and has a killer arm when his shoulder isn't coming unhinged.  His bat is hot and cold. Lots of strikeouts and a low batting average.  He hits it a ton when he gets a hold of it. I'm not excited......


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

I hear a lot of the exact same things being said now that was said when AA signed Donaldson a year ago. Folks hate mediocrity, but can't wait to sell the farm so we can celebrate mediocrity in another 5 years. How many rings does Colorado have with Arenado? Let's go get Arenado and in two years complain because Freeman walks. And then Fried and Soroka get traded two years later because they get $15-20 mil each in arbitration. Mediocrity sucks buddy, so by all means, leats bring it back...


----------



## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> I hear a lot of the exact same things being said now that was said when AA signed Donaldson a year ago. Folks hate mediocrity, but can't wait to sell the farm so we can celebrate mediocrity in another 5 years. How many rings does Colorado have with Arenado? Let's go get Arenado and in two years complain because Freeman walks. And then Fried and Soroka get traded two years later because they get $15-20 mil each in arbitration. Mediocrity sucks buddy, so by all means, leats bring it back...




We are mediocre, look at the results..

I don’t know who you were talking to last year this time but JD was a clear upgrade from the 3B we didn’t have at that time. You know who started the previous year as our triple bagger? Flaherty

Here’s a lesson bud. When you fall short, you look for ways to get better. You don’t put a stop gap in place. Buy low sell high. I suggest we let some else prospect while we win!

I do hope AAA can repeat though. It must mean a lot to you.


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 21, 2020)

Arrenado is the best 3 bag in baseball and arguably one of the top 2 or 3 offensive players. Hes a duel threat player in his prime.  Prospects are just that.  Prospects.  If they were great players they would be playing now.  Prospects are everywhere

Mookie would be another one to work a deal for.  Moran would be a good pick


----------



## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

Well, y'alls formula did work for the Marlins a couple times...


----------



## treemanjohn (Jan 21, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Well, y'alls formula did work for the Marlins a couple times...


And the Red Sox.  They traded the #1 rated prospect in baseball Moncado as part of a deal for Chris Sale


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## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

The Sox traded for an ace, to add to an already stout pitching staff. Apples to oranges. The vast majority of titles have been won by great pitching and timely hitting. Not by a great 3B. Trading your best prospects for a deGrom, Bauer, Clevinger or Strasburg is a much different conversation than trading for an Arenado. 

I get it, prospects are just that, prospects. But last I checked, Ozzie, Dansby, Freddie and Soroka were top prospects. I would much rather see Pache and Waters on either side of Acuna and Anderson in the rotation with Soroka and Fried for the next 10 years than have Arenado for two seasons, or worse cripple the team finacially for seven. Sorry, that albatross of a contract is a deal breaker. And the only way to get Colorado to eat a chunk of it is to completely gut the farm system. Having Arenado around is worthless without anyone coming up in the ranks to replace other key parts that you will lose by not having the money to re-sign them or any other potential free agent additions. Sure, Arenado might cost several prospects now, but he'll also cost you Freeman, Soroka and Fried within the next 5 years. You're hoping the Braves play ball with Red Sox money. Ain't happening.


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## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

I say we keep falling short and claim success next year.. ??‍

It wouldn’t take 10 players to get Arenado. Maybe just 3 or 4 of the ‘right’ players- 2 of which could be on the big league roster and might just clear some space for some of those prospects to actually contribute where it counts. 

We’ve got 50 M coming off the books this off season. That’s just in 3 contracts (Melancon, Hamels, and Ozuna). None of those 3 will be coming back for that $$. Plenty of $$ to go around if they really wanted to win..


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## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> . I would much rather see Pache and Waters on either side of Acuna



Your saying with those three manning the OF, you would play Acuña in CF?


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## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Your saying with those three manning the OF, you would play Acuña in CF?



Ok, Pache in center. Acuna has proven he can play center though, so I doubt you lose anything defensively either way to be honest.


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## Raylander (Jan 21, 2020)

He doesn’t call balls off. For every great play he made in CF last year, he made 5 bad ones. A lot of them were simple too.


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## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

By the way, Arenado wants out of Colorado because they did zero in free agency to improve the roster. Arenado to Atlanta puts the Braves less than $5mil under the luxury tax threshold. Make it kinda hard to keep him happy at the deadline or next offseason.


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## biggdogg (Jan 21, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> He doesn’t call balls off. For every great play he made in CF last year, he made 5 bad ones. A lot of them were simple too.


True. That's inexperience. And Pache is a true cf.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 22, 2020)

Nice potential in Atlanta's new addition, but not surprising either & seems to fit the deals to expect from AA.  Good to have another bat that delivers in post-season.  Glad there's not a big hole now in the batting lineup.  Hope the Braves can stay in the hunt & be competitive.



https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-braves-sign-of-marcell-ozuna?t=braves-press-releases

*Braves Sign OF Marcell Ozuna*




http://www.680thefan.com/2020/01/22/braves-announce-signing-of-outfielder-marcell-ozuna/ 

*Braves Announce Signing of Outfielder Marcell Ozuna*



> He hit .324 (12-for-37) in nine postseason games, including .429 (9-for-21) with two home runs in St. Louis’ five-game NLDS win over Atlanta.
























https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...na-gets-one-year-deal-braves-worth-18-million

7:10 PM ET




https://www.mlb.com/news/marcell-ozuna-deal-with-braves

January 21, 2020




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219772378466738176



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219784732055146498



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219791218885918720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219792235509821440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219792888529408000


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## elfiii (Jan 22, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> My point is 1st is higher than 8th. Taking the bat outta the hands of our best hitter seems counterproductive..
> 
> Let me know how winning in AAA and filling up the ‘top prospect’ lists goes for you. I’d prefer a ring.. Being mediocre sucks buddy



Simple. Move Freeman to cleanup.


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## Raylander (Jan 22, 2020)

elfiii said:


> Simple. Move Freeman to cleanup.



Thats an option; but not one I like. That would cost him at minimum 50 PA. I’d move him up before back. Statistically, your 2 hole hitter gets the most opportunities to score and/or drive in runs. I think our best hope is to get Ozuna back on the ‘roids. Or maybe Camargo is good. The second half of ‘18 he played very well as the everyday 3B. 

I suppose that why they play the games. I’ll still watch.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 22, 2020)

Braves Spring Training is getting closer with more details revealed today below. 

Wonder if that's it, or if there's more free agent deals coming for Atlanta??? 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220052118817705985



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220025819910823936


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## elfiii (Jan 22, 2020)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Braves Spring Training is getting closer with more details revealed today below.
> 
> Wonder if that's it, or if there's more free agent deals coming for Atlanta???
> 
> ...



I predict they will resign Markakis if he is recovered and has a good year. He's cheap and he's good.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 22, 2020)

elfiii said:


> I predict they will resign Markakis if he is recovered and has a good year. He's cheap and he's good.



That sounds like the mode of operation for AA, but you already know Markakis is resigned so let's hope he has another good season & stays healthy.

Still wondering if or when they will resign Matt Joyce who had a good season, but we have not heard about him since last season.


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## biggdogg (Jan 22, 2020)

I don't see any fee agent additions, but Ender and/or Duval have become expendable. Especially if Waters and/or Pache are ready sooner than expected...


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## elfiii (Jan 22, 2020)

BornToHuntAndFish said:


> Still wondering if or when they will resign Matt Joyce who had a good season, but we have not heard about him since last season.



That's a good question. He is a solid off the bench guy who can play several positions and a decent hitter too.


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## Twiggbuster (Jan 22, 2020)

Ozuna hit in the playoffs right?
Seems like he was on base a lot. 
I’m a fan on JD and hated to see him go but he let us down in post season ( so did FReddie). Time will tell but like Braves making moves.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 22, 2020)

elfiii said:


> That's a good question. He is a solid off the bench guy who can play several positions and a decent hitter too.



Even though the roster may be full with other up & comers possibly arriving in the majors & he's older like Markakis, last season he had better numbers than many may know & played in 80% of the games with decent backup potential.  Since he's still not signed, was thinking we still might see him on the non-roster spring training invitee list. 



http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/29124/matt-joyce 

*Matt Joyce Stats*


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## treemanjohn (Jan 22, 2020)

Meh Joyce.

Ozuna was red hot during the playoffs.  That's very common though.  Teams pitch around horses.  That's how Mark Lemke and Jim Leyritz made their fortunes. 

Ozuna has a huge upside if he can stay healthy and tuned in


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 23, 2020)

treemanjohn said:


> Ozuna was red hot during the playoffs.  That's *very common* though.



Yes, during last season playoffs, Ozuna hit well with a fine batting avg. which can be good & needed for the Braves. 

Very UNcommon or NOT common at all for players to hit well & have good batting averages during the playoffs, except for some or a few players on teams that regularly make it to the post-season.  

Let's hope the Braves can continue to improve, gain experience, & get back to being a decent, respectable playoff team like lots of years ago in the past, but unfortunately they continue have problems winning in the post-season & lots of trouble moving past the 1st round in recent years.


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## biggdogg (Jan 23, 2020)

Well Joyce for sure won't be coming back. With the Ozuna signing, there's no room on the roster for another outfielder. Rarely does a team carry five outfield only players, so I'd imagine someone gets traded before or during Spring Training.


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## biggdogg (Jan 27, 2020)

I read an interview with AA this morning where he was told by Terry McGuirk that if there is a noticeable need or an addition to the roster that will put the team over the top, the he has the reigns to go for it. Me personally, I'm hoping for a deadline (or sooner) deal for a true #1 starter. A controllable ace is something I would move top prospects for.


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## Patriot44 (Jan 27, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> I read an interview with AA this morning where he was told by Terry McGuirk that if there is a noticeable need or an addition to the roster that will put the team over the top, the he has the reigns to go for it. Me personally, I'm hoping for a deadline (or sooner) deal for a true #1 starter. A controllable ace is something I would move top prospects for.


I listened to an interview with him on MLB Radio headed to the deer woods yesterday. He doesn't think like GM's of yesteryear. In particular, his comments on using lesser talent more through the regular season to keep the players healthy and have them ready for the post season. This was evident in the lead up to a 100W year last year.

He didn't come out and say it, but he eluded to every position on that field is up for grabs. The best man will win the job.

I think we are going to see more loses but a also a team better positioned for the post season.


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## DannyW (Jan 28, 2020)

It's tough losing Donaldson in the off-season but AA has managed to minimize the overall effect on the team by signing Ozuna. Left field last year was by committee...Riley, Culberson, Duvall, and Ortega. Arguably Ozuna is stronger defensively than any of those players except maybe Duvall, and offensively he is probably the equal of the sum of their production. In other words they have upgraded left field.

Third base...not so much. I would argue Carmargo, if he gets the nod, is the defensive equal of Donaldson but his bat probably isn't close. But...he did get some big hits in 2018 producing a .272 average with 19 HR's and 76 RBIs in just 134 games. So he is not defenseless at the plate.

Overall better in left field and not as strong at 3rd base....maybe it doesn't even out but perhaps it's not bad as it seems.

Bigger question...who hits clean-up to protect Freddie's at bats? Ozuna? Acuna?


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## elfiii (Jan 28, 2020)

DannyW said:


> Bigger question...who hits clean-up to protect Freddie's at bats? Ozuna? Acuna?



There's the rub of losing Donaldson. There are no other power hitters on the Braves roster. You have to think in terms of cleaning down, not up.


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## Raylander (Jan 28, 2020)

Flowers bats cleanup


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## treemanjohn (Jan 28, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Flowers bats cleanup


Just thinking about that makes me hurt in my soul


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## elfiii (Jan 28, 2020)

worleyburd86 said:


> Flowers bats cleanup





treemanjohn said:


> Just thinking about that makes me hurt in my soul



Like I said - clean down, not clean up.


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## Raylander (Jan 28, 2020)

I heard he was gonna work out at 3B some during the spring. They’re hoping to keep his glove and bat hot


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## biggdogg (Jan 28, 2020)

Snitker has already said Acuna stays in the lead off spot. I assume Ozuna is 4th.


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## biggdogg (Jan 29, 2020)

Just announced that Bryant lost his grievance against the Cubs meaning he won't be a free agent until after the 2021 season. So hopefully AA has another trick up his sleeve...


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## elfiii (Jan 29, 2020)

It's looking like the Braves have taken two steps backwards instead of one step forward. I am not surprised.


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## James12 (Jan 29, 2020)

biggdogg said:


> Just announced that Bryant lost his grievance against the Cubs meaning he won't be a free agent until after the 2021 season. So hopefully AA has another trick up his sleeve...




The GM sharks have been waiting on this decision.  Someone is going to sell their farm for the two years on Bryant.
Btw, if I were Bryant I wouldn’t even speak to the Cubs again - such a shady move on their behalf. Well within the rules, but not right.  Hopefully the grievance rules get changed during the new bargaining agreement in 21’.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Jan 30, 2020)

Not expecting the Braves to bust a move, but some MLB teams still have needs on their teams.  Bryant filing grievances does not help generate more interest by other teams which is not a positive history for him.  No telling what's in his future or even the Braves future.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...-took-long-kris-bryant-losing-grievance-means

*Will Cubs trade him now? *
*What took so long? *
*What Kris Bryant losing grievance means*



> if there's a deal to be made, the date on the calendar won't prevent it from getting done





> Braves, Nationals, Rangers and Dodgers, among others, still have questions at third base and/or elsewhere on their rosters





> a Bryant trade could very well still happen despite February's rapid approach


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## biggdogg (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm probably in the minority, but I believe this years team is set up better than last years just with the bullpen additions. The rotation should be pretty much equal to last season's, if not slightly better (Julio is pitching for someone else after all...), and I don't see the offensive production falling off all that much either.


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## Dustin Pate (Feb 12, 2020)

https://tomahawktake.com/2020/02/12...mels-experiences-shoulder-discomfort-workout/ 

Not looking like a great start for Hamels. Hope this isn't a lingering issue to cause issue all season.


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## elfiii (Feb 12, 2020)

Dustin Pate said:


> https://tomahawktake.com/2020/02/12...mels-experiences-shoulder-discomfort-workout/
> 
> Not looking like a great start for Hamels. Hope this isn't a lingering issue to cause issue all season.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Feb 12, 2020)

Yep, not good & hope it's not a sign of things to come.  Gonna need less injuries this season & for Cole to do well in his relatively old age as a pitcher. Can only make excuses for a limited time.  

Got Tomlin back for the Braves in the minors.  Hope he can get good things going.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227628148055035904


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28688349/braves-agree-minor-league-deal-josh-tomlin 

*Braves agree to minor league deal with Josh Tomlin*

4:00 PM ET


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Feb 14, 2020)

Nope, not the Alonso some may be thinking.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...eteran-1b-yonder-alonso-minor-league-contract

*Braves sign veteran 1B Yonder Alonso to minor league contract*

10:54 AM ET




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228329848449437697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228329857181999106

Atlanta Braves Retweeted below:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228325791303446530


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228326208494063616


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## LEGHORN (Feb 14, 2020)

Hamels here in ATL will be more negative than positive, guaranteed.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Feb 25, 2020)

Braves new free agent addition, Marcell Ozuna plays in his 1st Spring Training game today batting 4th. 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232282155843227653


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232283192620658690


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## biggdogg (Feb 25, 2020)

If Inciarte shows he can hit again and Riley learns to lay off that slider, this should be a pretty good lineup.


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## DannyW (Feb 26, 2020)

I have seen one at bat of Riley's this spring. He did not offer at ANYTHING on the outer half of the plate. Deep in the count, with two strikes, he got a pitch that he could handle. He popped out but at least he did not strike out swinging on down and outside pitch. Progress...

Inciarte can hit, he has a .286 BA over nearly 3,000 at bats, but he is too streaky. He will hit .159 for 6 weeks and then go on a tear where he hits .370 for a month. Everyone has their hot/cold streaks, even Freddie, none seem to be as extreme as Ender's. Hopefully he can even out those highs and lows because his defense is Gold Glove caliber (he has 3 GG's in the 5 full seasons he has played.)

I agree with biggdogg...this might be a good lineup even without Donaldson.


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## biggdogg (Feb 26, 2020)

Riley also has an HOF'er in his corner working with him too. Chipper has been a constant with Riley this off season.


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## elfiii (Feb 26, 2020)

DannyW said:


> I agree with biggdogg...this might be a good lineup even without Donaldson.



Defense should be good to go. We'll miss Donaldson's bat.


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## BornToHuntAndFish (Feb 26, 2020)

New free agent acquisition catcher d'Arnaud starting today. 

Ozuna not starting, but does anyone know if he wore his good luck, neon arm sleeve in yesterday's game??? 

Inciarte's 2019 batting avg. = .249 & turns 30-years-old in Oct. while Freddie turns 31 in Sept.

Newcomb starts today's game. 

Sports radio news says Freddie is shut down with no games 'til next Mon. or Tues. while resting & treating inflamed, irritated, post-surgery, right elbow.


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