# Atheism in Saudi Arabia



## SemperFiDawg (Apr 4, 2014)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

I don't get it?  Atheism is already punishable by death in Saudi and many other Muslim countries.  What do they gain by labeling it as terrorism.


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## TripleXBullies (Apr 4, 2014)

Looks like more evidence that religion helps public order... is used to help public order... which gives support to it being created for public order.....


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## bullethead (Apr 4, 2014)

SemperFiDawg said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html
> 
> I don't get it?  Atheism is already punishable by death in Saudi and many other Muslim countries.  What do they gain by labeling it as terrorism.





> In a string of royal decrees and an overarching new piece of legislation to deal with terrorism generally, the Saudi King Abdullah has clamped down on all forms of political dissent and protests that could "harm public order".





> Article one of the new provisions defines terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based".



It is another way to keep religion in power with the government. If they can't get you on one charge they can get you on another..or both..and make an example of you for the next person that is on the cusp of thinking freely.


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## 660griz (Apr 4, 2014)

Christians don't have it made in Saudi either. Oh, and women. 
A female christian...forget it.


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 4, 2014)

660griz said:


> Christians don't have it made in Saudi either. Oh, and women.
> A female christian...forget it.



Yeah I know.  They won't spend a minute taking an ax to your neck, but that still doesn't explain why they added atheist as terrorist.  I mean you already know that if you are an atheist that you are a dead man.  Makes no sense to say "Not only are we going to decapitate you,  but then we are gonna label you a terrorist too.   Now what do you think about that? ".


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## bullethead (Apr 4, 2014)

From the article:



> The new laws have largely been brought in to combat the growing number of Saudis travelling to take part in the civil war in Syria, who have previously returned with newfound training and ideas about overthrowing the monarchy.
> 
> To that end, King Abdullah issued Royal Decree 44, which criminalises "participating in hostilities outside the kingdom" with prison sentences of between three and 20 years, Human Rights Watch said.



I guess not all atheists get put to death???

Found this at the end of article..


> The organisation said the new "terrorism" provisions contain language that prosecutors and judges are already using to prosecute and convict independent activists and peaceful dissidents.



It allows the govt to lump em all together. No separation. of church and state over there


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## drippin' rock (Apr 4, 2014)

I bet you're upset you didn't think of it first.


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 4, 2014)

drippin' rock said:


> I bet you're upset you didn't think of it first.



DR you really got the wrong impression.


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## drippin' rock (Apr 4, 2014)

It doesn't matter what I think. I had nothing monumental to add to this story and then I thought how some fundamentalists over here foam at the mouth at the mention of atheism, and in my head I thought about a bunch of white dudes clinging to their Bibles and guns *snicker* wishing they had thought of the whole atheist as terrorist thing. Just amusing myself. Carry on.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 4, 2014)

What is the Muslim countries definition of Atheism? Is it any religion other than Islam?
It is strange to me how Christians or Muslims view Atheist as being worse than a belief in any God. Freemasonry and the Boy Scouts are  examples. One only need believe in any God to join as if this is better than Atheism. 
Religious freedom is supported in some countries more than Atheism. I don't think Islamic countries care. Christian or Atheist means the same to them.
I think American Christians are more tolerant of someone believing in any God than an Atheist. It's like believing in a God is a common denominator vs believing in no God. So to some Christians believing in the wrong god is better than not believing in any God.


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## SemperFiDawg (Apr 5, 2014)

hummerpoo said:


> Given that atheism is usually ametaphysical, and man sits atop the physical hierarchy as we know it, does that not then default to man as god?
> 
> When Islamists institute laws which universally place man in the seat of judgment, does not man supplant God?
> 
> ...



Very, very, thoughtful post.  As to your last question, I would say this: 

Man is only usurping God if he chooses to live outside of God's purpose for him.  What is the difference between an atheist who is unabashedly sole ruler of every aspect of his life(as you said he is in fact his own de facto god) and the man who calls himself a Christian, goes to church as a social statement each Sunday, but also totally lives his life with no regard what-so-ever to what the Scriptures say.  In reality is his choice any different than that of the atheist?  They each conduct their lives according to their individual desires.   The only difference is that at least the atheist isn't a hypocrite.

These two verses come to mind.

James 2:14

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my* works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

To me this says the one who is Christian in name only shares the same fate as the atheist, and there's no doubt in my mind there's more like that than there are atheist, but I think the choice is theirs.  

P.S.  I did not really mean to turn this into a predestination discussion (wrong sub-forum), but I wanted to respond to your last point for this reason.  There are many Agnostics here who say they have and still look for God and talk to God yet have not a reason to believe in God.  I believe them on this, and I don't think it's helping them(or anyone else for that matter) to hear that God has predestined some to Heaven and others to He11.  If I was in their shoes I would be thinking "Maybe that's why I haven't heard from him.  I must be one of the ones he predestined to He11." And I would be both angry and discouraged about it wondering "What the heck did I do to deserve being predestined to He11?"   That's just one of the problems I have with the whole unconditional predestination doctrine.  I know it has it's followers, and y'all have beat it to death upstairs, but I think it flies in the face of common sense and is unscriptural to boot.*


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