# Hunting Grouse in the Winter?



## Savage19NRA (Nov 21, 2016)

I have a question for other Grouse Hunters. 

1.  Have you hunted when snow was on the ground in late Nov. through end of season?  
2.  Does snow and cold temps. change the type of habitat that you hunt?  
3.  What is their primary food during winter, Aspen buds, Poppel berries?
4.  Is Oct. the most productive time?

I look forward to your answers,  Thanks!!


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## Bird Hunter (Nov 21, 2016)

1. Have you hunted when snow was on the ground in late Nov. through end of season?
Yes, when I lived in Wisconsin.

2. Does snow and cold temps. change the type of habitat that you hunt? 
Most definitely.  The birds tend to move into cover that provides more protection, such as pine trees.  Look for evergreen trees near food sources (aspens).

3. What is their primary food during winter, Aspen buds, Poppel berries?
Is this a trick question seeing as how an Aspen tree is the same thing as a "popple"?  Aspen buds are definitely the preferred food up north.  I'm not sure what you mean by "popple berries"?  Do you mean the red berries (winterberry) that you sometimes find in a popple stand?  Like most other berries, these will be gone by winter.  In winter, grouse pretty much survive on buds ... if not aspen (popple), then hazelnut, birch, maple, etc.

4. Is Oct. the most productive time?
The most productive time is probably right after the leaves fall.  It's then that you can see well to shoot, and you still have some young & dumb birds around.


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## Savage19NRA (Nov 21, 2016)

Yes I meant Winterberries, just didn't know the proper name

So mid October is the best time.


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## Killinstuff (Nov 21, 2016)

Grouse can be anywhere they can find something to eat.  They ain't picky.  The snow hasn't been like it was 20 years ago so the birds can still get ground food but they will be eating any and all buds off the trees. Tracks in the snow just start from here and go to there for no rhyme or reason but they are picking at this or that as they go. They spend the nights in a cedar and some times a pine. In a cedar they can grab breakfast without moving far.  If the snow is deep enough the bird dive into it and it's a hoot to have the dogs pointing "nothing" and a few kicks and a bird blows out of the snow. 

The best time for me for grouse is late October/ early November.  Leaves are down and most guys are bow hunting or duck hunting. Less folks in the woods helps plus the dogs know the deal and how to work the birds.  The ferns are down too so walking is easier for me.  Walking puts birds in the pot no matter the season.


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## ronnem (Nov 22, 2016)

*?*

3. What is their primary food during winter, Aspen buds, Poppel berries?
Is this a trick question seeing as how an Aspen tree is the same thing as a "popple"?  Aspen buds are definitely the preferred food up north.  I'm not sure what you mean by "popple berries"?  Do you mean the red berries (winterberry) that you sometimes find in a popple stand?  Like most other berries, these will be gone by winter.  In winter, grouse pretty much survive on buds ... if not aspen (popple), then hazelnut, birch, maple, etc.

You claim aspen buds are definitely the preferred food up north."  But aspen buds are not what you will find in the majority of  grouse crops shot in December. You will find wintergreen in 90% of the crops shot in december.  You do realize that by biologist own pen, Aspen trees in any state(buds, leaves, or catkins) have *zero nutritional value* to the ruffed grouse.  This is a fact, as a food source, aspen trees are useless to the ruffed grouse.  If you look at the facts, straight from biologist, aspen is literally useless to the ruffed grouse as a food source period.  Secondly, you claim the berries from the wintergreen are not present in winter, this is not correct.  Wintergreen(an evergreen) will have berries straight through winter, and wintergreen in its natural native ecosystem can be reached by grouse all winter long even if there is 14 ft of snow, in a natural native ecosystem bare ground will still be present in the dead of winter in 14 ft of snow(you may have to crawl to get to it).  

The whole "aspen and its importance to grouse thing" is a total myth, based on theory (there isn't a single FACT proving this theory). The myth has been perpetuated over the past 4 decades and somehow has now become truth(repeat a lie long enough and it somehow becomes the truth???).  Grouse don't need aspen to survive or exist, just look at the applacian grouse population that existed without aspen.

The most important food source for winter grouse is one family of plants.  Without this food source grouse cannot exist in any area.  Yes it is the family of plants that wintergreen is in, The Heath family.  Remove the heath family from any woods and you remove the ruffed grouse.  Just look to the Appalachian mountain chain, remove 99% of the Laurel(Heath family) and you remove the grouse, but since the heath family requires a semi ecosystem to survive, and will not tolerate large scale clearcutting or long periods of direct sunlight, it is not even studied or talked about.  The Heath family is part of old mature wood lots and actually considered bad, you know "old growth bad, clearcutting good".  But don't tell that to the grouse.  

Answer me one question: If Aspen trees are so great and so important to ruffed grouse, why is it that currently Michigan has more individual aspen trees than ever before and less grouse than ever before?  and FYI, The *range* of the ruffed grouse in Michigan is about half of what it was 50 years ago. 

Ron


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## Killinstuff (Nov 23, 2016)

Ron the reason for the decline in grouse numbers across the midwest the past 50 years is because of recycling. Paper companies need fewer trees for paper.  Less cutting of trees, the older the aspens which make for a lower the stem density, less edges and openings and less plant diversity in the grouse woods.  I have 50 spots that used to produce but have grown old and hold no birds now in the past 27 years I've lived in northern MI. They still cut trees but not like before. I might have lost 50 places to hunt but I find new ones all season long.  Saturdays are my days drive dirt roads and two tracks looking for new spots and more times than not my most productive day of the week.


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## NCHillbilly (Nov 24, 2016)

I used to grouse hunt a good bit here in winter, and we usually have snow on the ground a lot of the time from December to March. I always found the most winter grouse around hemlock thickets and mountain laurel, usually on the south or west-facing slopes. The hemlock wooly adelgids have devastated the hemlocks in much of the mountains, so that probably affects the grouse, too. 

As for food, aspen/popple is not a factor anyway, because it doesn't even grow in Georgia, and only in a few widely scattered spots in western NC. Most western NC winter grouse that I have cut their stomach open had lots of sweet birch buds, wintergreen leaves and berries, partridgeberry, and other stuff that I couldn't identify.


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## ruff hunter (Nov 27, 2016)

Aspen/ Popple in western NC????....I have never seen aspen/ popple until northern West Virginia......


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