# Kent Hovind



## ricksconnected (Feb 17, 2017)

whats you guys opinion on his theory?
not what do you think about him personally, but his
theory and the bible.


----------



## formula1 (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re:*

Admit I had to do a little research to find out some information.

I'm going to assume you mean his young earth creation theory. I don't have an issue with it at all though I might not accept every aspect of it absolutely.  To me, the bible is not really about creation theory but rather faith in the God of creation.  The focus should be on God's provision for each one of us individually, that is, salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. And in that truth is where faith begins and is best lived out.  The gospel is good news after all.

I consider him a brother whom God has called to suffer for His sake.  God calls us all to suffer for His sake in one way or another.  Why?  Because if we are going to belong to Him and give our lives over to Him, we must come to the end of ourselves.  Sometimes that just hurts!


----------



## centerpin fan (Feb 18, 2017)

His theory about not paying taxes?


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

centerpin fan said:


> His theory about not paying taxes?




his theory on creation and the dinosaur's.
the tax thing isn't a biblical issue as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

formula1 said:


> Admit I had to do a little research to find out some information.
> 
> I'm going to assume you mean his young earth creation theory. I don't have an issue with it at all though I might not accept every aspect of it absolutely.  To me, the bible is not really about creation theory but rather faith in the God of creation.  The focus should be on God's provision for each one of us individually, that is, salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. And in that truth is where faith begins and is best lived out.  The gospel is good news after all.
> 
> I consider him a brother whom God has called to suffer for His sake.  God calls us all to suffer for His sake in one way or another.  Why?  Because if we are going to belong to Him and give our lives over to Him, we must come to the end of ourselves.  Sometimes that just hurts!



I agree with you but the earth age in his theory is very important. if hes correct it defies what science has been trying to convince us of for a very long time. 
it would seem that the battle of science VS the bible these days is extremely tilted in sciences favor.


----------



## centerpin fan (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> his theory on creation and the dinosaur's.
> the tax thing isn't a biblical issue as far as I'm concerned.



Did not know that.  I'm a CPA, so I know him as a tax protester.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

It's about the same as the resurgence of flat Earthers.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> It's about the same as the resurgence of flat Earthers.



explain please.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> explain please.



Young earth creationists are making the same mistake the church made in the past by demanding the earth was flat.

Strict literalism always causes errors in comprehending God's word.  Even today as we all know how silly the flat earth theory was,  some are trying convince folks of this again,  just like this guy is trying a new tactic to a false theory


----------



## gordon 2 (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Young earth creationists are making the same mistake the church made in the past by demanding the earth was flat.
> 
> Strict literalism always causes errors in comprehending God's word.  Even today as we all know how silly the flat earth theory was,  some are trying convince folks of this again,  just like this guy is trying a new tactic to a false theory




Hum. Did the church of the past make the mistake that the earth was flat and also that the earth was the center of the universe? Both or just one of these?


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

gordon 2 said:


> Hum. Did the church of the past make the mistake that the earth was flat and also that the earth was the center of the universe? Both or just one of these?



Now that you mention it,  I do seem to recall a church making both those errors.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Young earth creationists are making the same mistake the church made in the past by demanding the earth was flat.
> 
> Strict literalism always causes errors in comprehending God's word.  Even today as we all know how silly the flat earth theory was,  some are trying convince folks of this again,  just like this guy is trying a new tactic to a false theory




how is his theory false? 
seems he has some pretty good points
and a ton of evidence to prove his thoughts.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> how is his theory false?
> seems he has some pretty good points
> and a ton of evidence to prove his thoughts.



Total bolonga can be made up to look really good,  I'll demonstrate below. 

This seems to have some good points with a ton of evidence.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Total bolonga can be made up to look really good,  I'll demonstrate below.
> 
> This seems to have some good points with a ton of evidence.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat




the earth being flat never caught my attention.
it has never made sense to me. 
I'm pretty sure circumnavigation proved this theory wrong a long time ago. besides, from the pics ive seen
the earth looks round. 

yet ive never read anything in the bible that contradicts kents theory. not saying that there isn't but.....
I'm more concerned with kent's idea as to how old the earth really is. 

Job 26:7 as being suspended over empty space, implying a spherical figure. This notion is further entertained in Isaiah 40:21-22, which refers to “the circle of the earth.” This is further supported by Proverbs 8:27 (NKJV).


----------



## Big7 (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> Young earth creationists are making the same mistake the church made in the past by demanding the earth was flat.
> 
> Strict literalism always causes errors in comprehending God's word.  Even today as we all know how silly the flat earth theory was,  some are trying convince folks of this again,  just like this guy is trying a new tactic to a false theory



And so do those think they can interpret The Bible
alone..

Just sayin' 

And I can get you some detail on that if you promise to read it if I post.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

post it and i'll read it too.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

Big7 said:


> And so do those think they can interpret The Bible
> alone..
> 
> Just sayin'
> ...




Just me and the Holy Spirit have unraveled some mysteries to myself. I certainly dont need any man in an organization,  that has a certain position to help me. Just saying.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> the earth being flat never caught my attention.
> it has never made sense to me.
> I'm pretty sure circumnavigation proved this theory wrong a long time ago. besides, from the pics ive seen
> the earth looks round.
> ...



The earth is way older than 6,000 years. Man is way older than 6000 years...yet every word of the scriptures are true. ...not literally,  but in their proper context.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

Can man think from his heart as mentioned in the Bible? Should we take scripture to mean we literally think with our heart even if science proves we use our brain instead?

Yes, the Heart Really Can “Think” and Have Emotions!

http://www.ukapologetics.net/biblicalheart.htm


----------



## gemcgrew (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> the earth being flat never caught my attention.
> it has never made sense to me.


You were never taught it. 


ricksconnected said:


> I'm pretty sure circumnavigation proved this theory wrong a long time ago.


According to the flat earth map, circumnavigation proves the theory to be correct.


ricksconnected said:


> besides, from the pics ive seen
> the earth looks round.


A picture is not the earth, so at best you've seen a picture.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

THE FIRMAMENT AS THE DOME OF HEAVEN;

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> The earth is way older than 6,000 years. Man is way older than 6000 years...yet every word of the scriptures are true. ...not literally,  but in their proper context.




how do you/we know this? the same science that teaches this is the same science that is trying to prove wrong
the "creation theory".


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

gemcgrew said:


> According to the flat earth map, circumnavigation proves the theory to be correct.





but the word "Circum" means "round" or around  (latin)


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> but the word "Circum" means "round" or around  (latin)



Couldn't one navigate in a round flat circle just as easy as around a sphere? One could circumnavigate a lake.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

sure he could but that wouldn't really be
 circumnavigation actually.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

you did miss my post where the bible already had told us the earth was round in the scriptures I mentioned.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> you did miss my post where the bible already had told us the earth was round in the scriptures I mentioned.



Job 26:7
He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.

(I can't see this verse implying a sphere.)

Isaiah 40:22
International Standard Version
He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in,

NET Bible
He is the one who sits on the earth's horizon; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

(From reading the scripture, I picture a disk with a flat curtain over it.)

Cambridge Bible;
upon (rather: above, R.V. marg.) the circle of the earth] i. e. the horizon, where earth and heaven meet (see Proverbs 8:27), “at the confines of light and darkness” (Job 26:10). The earth with its surrounding ocean is conceived as a flat disc, on which the arch of heaven comes down. The rendering “on the vault of the earth” (see Job 22:14, “vault of heaven,” the same word) is possible, though not so good.

Proverbs 8:27
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

Pulpit commentary;
When he prepared the heavens, I was there. When God made the firmament, and divided the waters above it and below (Genesis 1:7), Wisdom cooperated. When he set a compass upon the face of the depth. ×—×•Ö¼×’ (chug), "circle," or "circuit" (as Job 22:14), means the vault of heaven, conceived of as resting on the ocean which surrounds the earth...

Chug; vault, horizon, circle, circuit, or compass.
The Hebrew word Chug (×—×•×’) means a flat-circle like a coin. The Hebrew word for a sphere like a ball is Dur (×“×•×¨).


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

so you believe the world is flat then yes?


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> so you believe the world is flat then yes?



No, what I'm showing is scripture can be read with different eyes. If I didn't know the earth was a sphere, and someone handed me a Bible, I wouldn't gather from reading it that the earth was  a sphere. 

I would also gather from reading the Bible if I had been born in the days of yore that I think with my heart and that my emotions were from the heart.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 18, 2017)

but the bible tells you all over that the earth is round.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> but the bible tells you all over that the earth is round.



Proverbs 3:1-2
My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you peace and prosperity.

The Bible also tells us emotions come from our heart. Not just one verse but many.

Do you keep God's commandments in your heart?


----------



## gemcgrew (Feb 18, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> but the bible tells you all over that the earth is round.


Both the flat-earthers and the ball-earthers agree that the earth is round.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> Proverbs 3:1-2
> My son, do not forget my teaching,
> but keep my commands in your heart,
> for they will prolong your life many years
> ...



doing my best but remember we all fall short of the glory. 
I guess I can say I slip up a bunch, but I pick myself up and keep trying. I do have that little voice inside that tells me that I just messed up big time or that I shouldn't do this or say that because its against the Lords word.
I just pray that that little voice never falls silent in me.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> doing my best but remember we all fall short of the glory.
> I guess I can say I slip up a bunch, but I pick myself up and keep trying. I do have that little voice inside that tells me that I just messed up big time or that I shouldn't do this or say that because its against the Lords word.
> I just pray that that little voice never falls silent in me.





I can't pick myself up,  I'm thankful for the One that carries me through.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

hobbs27 said:


> I can't pick myself up,  I'm thankful for the One that carries me through.



you will be able to one day.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> you will be able to one day.



No... He will always be with me,  never forsake me.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

you don't hope to ever be able to pick yourself up with the strength the Lord has given you? that's sad really.
I'm pretty sure he takes great delight in watching his people doing things with the gifts he has given us
w/o calling on him for every little thing under the sun. 
take great care with the gifts already given to you and use them often.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> doing my best but remember we all fall short of the glory.
> I guess I can say I slip up a bunch, but I pick myself up and keep trying. I do have that little voice inside that tells me that I just messed up big time or that I shouldn't do this or say that because its against the Lords word.
> I just pray that that little voice never falls silent in me.



You missed my point. I was asking if you keep God's commandments in your heart or in your brain?

When you do slip up, was it a decision of your heart or your brain? 
The Bible uses heart. I guess because back in the day folks thought the heart did such things. Through science we now know it comes from the brain. Should we dismiss this same science because it's the same science that teaches us evolution?
God left the rainbow as a sign the earth would never be flooded by water. Later we learned this rainbow is caused by light refraction in the water vapor. Should we ignore this science since it's the same science that teaches evolution?


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> You missed my point. I was asking if you keep God's commandments in your heart or in your brain?
> 
> When you do slip up, was it a decision of your heart or your brain?
> The Bible uses heart. I guess because back in the day folks thought the heart did such things. Through science we now know it comes from the brain. Should we dismiss this same science because it's the same science that teaches us evolution?
> ...


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> God left the rainbow as a sign the earth would never be flooded by water. Later we learned this rainbow is caused by light refraction in the water vapor. Should we ignore this science since it's the same science that teaches evolution?



so now we know what God used to design and build the rainbow yes? the way I see it.
not all science is against the creation story, just most it seems.


----------



## hobbs27 (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> you don't hope to ever be able to pick yourself up with the strength the Lord has given you? that's sad really.
> I'm pretty sure he takes great delight in watching his people doing things with the gifts he has given us
> w/o calling on him for every little thing under the sun.
> take great care with the gifts already given to you and use them often.



My Lord is not distant. If my Lord gives me the tools to do... Then I have done nothing on my own.  Why would I want to do without Him?

 I can,  but that which I have done alone is always a mess.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> so now we know what God used to design and build the rainbow yes? the way I see it.
> not all science is against the creation story, just most it seems.



Would you say that God, the creator, uses science for his creations or that it's just man's way of explaining God's creation?

I like to think God created science and used it for his creations. Like our body systems of pumps, supply and return pipes, filters, valves, pressures, flows, metering devices, orifices, etc. 
                                                                                                                                        I think there is more to it than just man making up all of this stuff to explain what the Great Architect of the Universe did. I think that over the years man just discovered and continues to discover God's use of science in his creation.

Therefore as we learn more about DNA, etc. we see that  things in the Bible were explained in a way that the present generation understood them. God knew that we think with our mind and that the earth wasn't flat. He presents things to man so that he can see it. Then as man discovers God's science, he can see it a bit differently as once explained.

Just as we learned about the rainbow, we could learn about other creations. Perhaps the Ark of the Covenant would be a big battery that would kill someone the instant they touched it. I'm not saying that God has to use science to make such a thing. What I'm suggesting is, he chose to do so.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

ok that post I agree with. I think God invented science.
if that makes sense. he was/is the greatest scientist/engineer the world will ever see. its just taking us this long to try and catch up our understanding of it all, or get as close as we have anyways. 

the thing that gets me is people are also trying to use science to disprove the creation of man and trying to destroy our faith and using sciences to try and do so.


----------



## Israel (Feb 19, 2017)

"God invented science"?
Do you mean God has purposed man to see an order in His creation that he may (or may not) acknowledge through the scientific method?

Do some think of God as if saying (and acting according to) "this time I won't use magic, I'll use science"?
God is the mind of all "science", let your mind be set in order of the things in which you speak. Discover in the science of God the effects of righteousness on the material. 
One could start with the resurrection, or anywhere, really for that matter, it all leads eventually, to the resurrection.


----------



## Big7 (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> post it and i'll read it too.



It's pretty long and it's all there.

You said you would read it so, here it is.

If you want to go to USCCB website, there is a lot more
but it is way more complicated. Not that you are not smart enough to weed through it. 

Just thought this one cut to the chase. 

http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/discern.htm

Then go HERE:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

It is long. If you don't want to read it all which I suggest you do, skip down to: IN BRIEF


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

I don't think any one person has it together enough to 
read stuff like this and get it all on the first few trips honestly.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

Israel said:


> "God invented science"?
> Do you mean God has purposed man to see an order in His creation that he may (or may not) acknowledge through the scientific method?
> 
> Do some think of God as if saying (and acting according to) "this time I won't use magic, I'll use science"?
> ...



I don't think God used "magic" anywhere,
but I honestly don't understand what your saying (asking) in this post.


----------



## Israel (Feb 19, 2017)

Science is not a way of creation. It's been used (to my understanding) many times in several posts over the years in that context. As in "sometimes God uses science", as opposed to, let's say, what would then appear (in distinction) as His sovereign will.
Science, in whatever form, relates only to knowledge. It is not a process, except of mind, to acquire information. The sperm fertilizing the egg is not "exercising science", nor is the antibiotic killing pathogens, science as such simply seeks to know the hows based on prior information. The products of such information, though scientifically discovered..."what happens to this wire when the current gets higher?" could lead to the light bulb, but the light bulb itself, and what is taking place therein is not science.

We are told God upholds all things by the word of His power. The observed wire reacts to current only because of this. We needn't speculate as to alternatives being possible that have not been observed...but we do know this as believers, all things are possible with God. 
In the strictest sense God does use "His science" of perfect knowledge in all things, but His is not a knowledge come to by observation, hypothesis, theory or need of demonstrable repeatability. 
That knowledge is what the believer is called to, and not what parades itself, as Paul wrote 

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

i think maybe you missed my thoughts when I said what I said or maybe I just didn't word it correctly. 
now I don't know how to word what I was meaning to say lol. 

let me try this,
its through Gods works that we have science to start with. 
he gave us the human body, after that there came the sciences there of. 
he gave us the earth and all things upon it that creep and craw. there again after that came the sciences of that creation. 
not saying that God was a scientist or a magician.
I didn't mean to come across that way if I did. 
if it weren't for the Lord Gods creations would be even have science to the degree that we do today? probably not. 
I don't even know if this post helps get my point/thoughts across either.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> ok that post I agree with. I think God invented science.
> if that makes sense. he was/is the greatest scientist/engineer the world will ever see. its just taking us this long to try and catch up our understanding of it all, or get as close as we have anyways.
> 
> the thing that gets me is people are also trying to use science to disprove the creation of man and trying to destroy our faith and using sciences to try and do so.



I agree and changed my post #42 to reflect this. I had said that God knew about science and used it for creation. Actually he created science and used it for creation.

I would say he is the Great Scientist and Architect of the Universe.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Feb 19, 2017)

ricksconnected said:


> i think maybe you missed my thoughts when I said what I said or maybe I just didn't word it correctly.
> now I don't know how to word what I was meaning to say lol.
> 
> let me try this,
> ...



I think you explained yourself well.


----------



## ricksconnected (Feb 19, 2017)

Artfuldodger said:


> I agree and changed my post #42 to reflect this. I had said that God knew about science and used it for creation. Actually he created science and used it for creation.
> 
> I would say he is the Great Scientist and Architect of the Universe.




A-men.


----------



## Israel (Feb 20, 2017)

No, I think its me who is not being clear.
Science is knowledge. 
It is not "how a thing works"...science (really, the scientific method) may seek to tell us that, but that's another discussion altogether. Science (really scientists) may explain it in certain terms we call "science"...so that we say "they are explaining it in scientific language". And here is where the confusion may lie.


But the creation itself is not subject to our most precise description of it. We create the language, and by those create explanations, and (in borrowing scientific terms) our minds get easily infected (per a design) in seeing things through that adopted scientific lens. 

If we do not yet see how control of language affects control of thought...we yet may. And if we do not understand control of thought to be the battleground...in which each man takes his stand "in his earth" equipped either with only natural thoughts (infected, as it were by lesser things) or enlightened of Christ (to which the natural is always subject, as He, its author; and is only upheld by His word), well, we may yet still come to see.

One man hated his birthright and exchanged it for the lie. He hearkened to the voice of creature.
Another, did not.


----------

