# Homosexual Day of Silence



## toddboucher (Mar 24, 2008)

www.afa.net/emails/transform.asp?x=dos_031308&s=browser&y=2008&m=03

Homosexual Day of Silence - Is Your Child's School on the list? 


Because of the action of concerned parents, hundreds of schools have removed their school as a listed participant in the pro-homosexual "Day of Silence." You can join the fight for your children too! 

On, Friday, April 25, several thousand schools across the nation will be observing "Day of Silence (DOS)." DOS is a nationwide push to promote the homosexual lifestyle in public schools. 

When AFA alerted parents of this public school classroom disruption by homosexual student activists, many took action immediately! If you haven't gotten involved, it's critical that you do so today! 

A simple phone call or letter to school administrators, telling them your child will not attend school the day it observes DOS, may be enough to cause some participating schools to change their plans. Sample letter here. 

Please listen to a 60-second radio ad warning parents about Day of Silence, then forward this email to your local Christian or conservative radio station. Ask them to broadcast it as a Public Service Announcement (PSA)! MP3 file or WAV file 

Click here for Frequently Asked Questions about the Day of Silence. 

In the past week alone, over 200 schools have announced they are dropping plans to participate. Please, get involved for the sake or your children, and all children, today! 


Take Action!


What should parents do? Check with your local school principal to see if your child's school will be participating in DOS. If the school is participating, notify other parents about DOS and ask them to join in keeping their children out of school on that day. 
Here is a partial list of schools which are expected to participate in DOS: If your school is listed, call your local school and ascertain whether they officially or passively allow students to observe "Day of Silence." If your school is listed, please double-check with your local school to see if the school is actually sponsoring DOS. Sometimes the "participation" turns out to be a handful of kids who are saying they have a homosexual club and are observing this protest day, but without school endorsement. We sincerely hope your school, if listed, is not actually an official sponsor. If it is not, we will take them off the list, if a school official asks us to do so. Please e-mail your correction to webmaster@missionamerica.com. 

Some tips:

Be sure of the date that DOS is planned for your school. (The national date is April 25, but some schools observe DOS on a different date.) 
Inform the school of your intention to keep your child home on that date and explain why. Click here for a sample letter. 
Explain to your children why you're taking a stand: Homosexual behavior is not an innate identity; it is a sinful, unnatural and destructive behavior. No school should advance a physically, emotionally, and spiritually destructive sexual lifestyle to students. 
Schools do not have to tolerate students remaining silent in class. Schools can adopt policies that require parental consent for students to attend any club, including those premised on sexual orientation or gender identity. Click here for more information from Attorney Mat Staver with Liberty Counsel who provides free information to parents, students, and schools regarding their rights associated with noncompliance on the Day of Silence. 


Georgia school involved

BERKMAR HIGH SCHOOL 
CAMPBELL HIGH SCHOOL 
DRUID HILLS HIGH SCHOOL 
DULUTH HIGH SCHOOL 
DUNWOODY HIGH SCHOOL
GRADY HIGH SCHOOL 
KENNESAW MOUNTAIN HIGH SCHOOL 
NORCROSS HIGH SCHOOL 
NORTH GWINNETT HIGH SCHOOL 
NORTH SPRINGS HIGH SCHOOL 
PAIDEIA SCHOOL 
PEBBLEBROOK HIGH SCHOOL
SOUTH COBB HIGH SCHOOL 
SOUTH GWINNETT HIGH SCHOOL 
THE GALLOWAY SCHOOL 
WHITE COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL 


folks ask why when the time comes I will not send my son to public schools.


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## The AmBASSaDEER (Mar 24, 2008)

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=182748&highlight=dos


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## Lowjack (Mar 24, 2008)

That is really sickening


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## 60Grit (Mar 24, 2008)

As if I had to look.....

No, my childs school is not on the list....


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## dawg2 (Mar 24, 2008)

redneckcamo said:


> serious double standard around here ......cliik clik click clique


Pretty clever ther Cliquer

My kids schools aren't either!


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## pfharris1965 (Mar 25, 2008)

*...*

I have looked at a lot of the schools listed and there is nothing about this on their officially published calendars and there is nothing on the Gwinnett County School Calendar...for a school to have such an event it has to be sanctioned at the administrative level...what is your source other than the afa?

I mean if that is the only site publicizing it then there may not be more here than nra style scare tactics to drum up more non tax deductible donations...

I would really like to know more but will not act based purely on an extremist organization like the afa...

Thanks for any additional info...


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## toddboucher (Mar 25, 2008)

I was shocked about White county I think they stood against that girl a few years ago who wanted to form some gay group( don't know much about it but its what I remember). 

As far as the AFA they are a trusted family group and I only recieved the email and passed it along, I can check to find it elsewhere.


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## pfharris1965 (Mar 25, 2008)

*...*



toddboucher said:


> I was shocked about White county I think they stood against that girl a few years ago who wanted to form some gay group( don't know much about it but its what I remember).
> 
> As far as the AFA they are a trusted family group and I only recieved the email and passed it along, I can check to find it elsewhere.


 
Thanks for checking...I Googled and did not find much substance about the event...

Any info is appreciated...I do not think the school system could legally sanction such an event...


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## Spotlite (Mar 25, 2008)

not on the list, but if it was it would be a day of absence for us. Not only that, our school board would get a ear full.


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## PJason (Mar 25, 2008)

From my understanding some schools are allowing students to participate without academic penalty for the day, and some are not. Whether or not a student chooses to participate is completely up to them, however I do not agree with them getting of Scot free. Part of protest is the risk of punishment for what you believe. As a protester you should be more then willing to except punishment due for your actions. Say I am protesting at an abortion clinic and chain myself to the door blocking women from getting in, I am fully aware that I not only could I but I will more then likely be arrested for my actions, that is the courage  of the protester. Any student that chooses to participate in this knowing full well that nothing will happen to them is a coward in my opinion.

Now let me make a suggestion to those who want to keep their children out of school that day. DO NOT KEEP THEM OUT OF SCHOOL. I would organize my own protest on the same day. How about a day of silence for the Millions of Aborted/Murdered Babies? Take the DOS action plan and change it too a Pro-Life cause. A Day of Silence for the Millions that have been silenced by abortion. Send your kids to school with notes explaining what they are doing. Send them with shirts, pins, and posters of dead aborted babies. Do everything the DOS people would only with a Pro-Life message. Only do not expect them to not receive academic punishment for their actions, not like the DOS cowards.


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## Lowjack (Mar 25, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaLm2J8qw7g


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## Twenty five ought six (Mar 26, 2008)

I work in a couple of middle schools, and if those students want to practice a day of silence, I'm all for it.

Maybe it will grow to a whole week.

I'll being the tape.


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## Lead Poison (Mar 26, 2008)

A homosexual day of silence-how absurd, wrong and totally inappropriate. No school district should allow this and no parent should accept it.

I appreciate any parent who chose to keep their kids home from school. I appreciate even more those who also called their schools and told them exactly why they kept their kids home.


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## TTom (Apr 20, 2008)

Still shocked to see folks worried about a volentary student lead, protest mostly about acknowledging the bigotry displayed against homosexuals. The "Homosexual Adjenda"????? That they be accepted as a human being allowed to live their lives without fear of being attacked verbally or physicaly or legally for being homosexual.
OMG what a horrid thing to have for an agenda.

From the Web Page of the National Day of Silence

"The National Day of Silence brings attention to anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools. This year’s event will be held in memory of Lawrence King, a California 8th-grader who was shot and killed Feb. 12 by a classmate because of his sexual orientation and gender expression. Hundreds of thousands of students will come together on April 25 to encourage schools and classmates to address the problem of anti-LGBT behavior."

When you protest the murders of these folks as vigorously as you now protest the Day of Silence maybe I can buy that you're comming from a spiritual place when doing so. Until then the protest you hold will fall on deaf ears here. Would Jesus advocate the behaviour that this protest is against? Would he stand by and ignore the fact that there are folks being bullied and even murdered because of their homosexuality? Or would he be protesting the murders and bullying first and worrying about the sexual orientation of the victims later.


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## SBG (Apr 20, 2008)

TTom said:


> Would Jesus advocate the behaviour that this protest is against? Would he stand by and ignore the fact that there are folks being bullied and even murdered because of their homosexuality? Or would he be protesting the murders and bullying first and worrying about the sexual orientation of the victims later.



He would do both. He would call the homosexuals sodomites and an abomination, and he'd call the murderers murderers.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Apr 20, 2008)

I'm glad my grandson goes to a Christian school.
His school is run by a bunch of right wing religious fanatics like the ones that scare Rosie O'Donnell.


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## dixie (Apr 20, 2008)

No. GA. Mt. Man said:


> I'm glad my grandson goes to a Christian school.
> His school is run by a bunch of right wing religious fanatics like the ones that scare Rosie O'Donnell.



Good for his Parents!!! shows they were raised right NGMM


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## fishbone2149 (Apr 20, 2008)

If my daughters school was on the list and it is not by the way, I would definitely keep her home regardless of the problems that could arise from doing so.  I think this week will be the beginning of testing throughout the state such as graduation tests, crct testing among others state mandated tests, so most kids will have to be in school.  I wonder what the schools would do if some of the "straight" kids protested at the same time?  Probably call the cops and have them expelled.  Dang what is the world coming to when our children are exposed to such perversion.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Apr 20, 2008)

toddboucher said:


> I was shocked about White county I think they stood against that girl a few years ago who wanted to form some gay group( don't know much about it but its what I remember).
> 
> As far as the AFA they are a trusted family group and I only recieved the email and passed it along, I can check to find it elsewhere.



I thought they had a gay group at White County. I hope I'm wrong.


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## Lead Poison (Apr 20, 2008)

TTom said:


> Still shocked to see folks worried about a volentary student lead, protest mostly about acknowledging the bigotry displayed against homosexuals. The "Homosexual Adjenda"????? That they be accepted as a human being allowed to live their lives without fear of being attacked verbally or physicaly or legally for being homosexual.
> OMG what a horrid thing to have for an agenda.



Give me a break, I can't believe what I just read! 

Are we to accept pedophiles, murders, rapists, and theives and not speak out against them too? 

Yes, there is an agenda. 

Call homosexuality what it really is, sin.


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## TTom (Apr 21, 2008)

Funny when folks take the word someone has about what the protest is about instead of going to the source and actually reading it for themselves had someone done the same to you you'd be insensed.

A protest against bullying, and murders of someone for the sole reason of their sexual orientation. To me it takes a very small closed mind to not see that what the protest is against is something any feeling person christian or not should be able to see is wrong MURDER and BULLYING.

The message I'm getting here is Oh their just gay people they can and maybe should be murdered and just remain quiet about it.

Pedophiles Rapists Theives all CRIMES against the state and yet the idea that Homosexuals (which in the eyes of the LAWS is not a crime) should be bullied or murdered without a trial should be foreign to anyone who loves the idea of the Constitution.

What happened to Love thy enemy, Doing good towards those who would do you evil. Or are those just Christian ethics and morals when they are convienient?

Nobody's saying you have to accept homosexuality in his protest as not being aa "sin" This protest is about people being assaulted and sometimes murdered just because they are homosexual.

AS for the sin aspect that can be debated and has been, but that is beyond the point of this debate. The debate is are homosexuals asking too much when they ask that they not be murdered or bullied because of it?


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 21, 2008)

man shall not lie with another man ,woman shall not lie with another woman, nor man or woman lie with a beast.----can't remember the exact verse, think its in romans or corinthians, but its in there somewhere. i am a sinner as well but come on this is a sin of pleasure, and one who does it has no intention of stopping for religons sake. god is a loving god, and he is also a god of rath.sure we can remember those fallen, but not advocate or celobrate something else in the process.


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## Lead Poison (Apr 21, 2008)

TTom said:


> Still shocked to see folks worried about a volentary *student lead*, protest mostly about *acknowledging the bigotry displayed against homosexuals.* The "Homosexual Adjenda"????? *That they be accepted **as a human being allowed to live their lives without fear of being attacked verbally *or physicaly or *legally for being homosexual.*
> *OMG what a horrid thing to have for an agenda*.



This is the statement I have a major issue with. You were not totally referring to the murder and/or bullying of homosexuals. You are in fact, supporting their way of life and even going so far as to want it recognized and protected by law. 

Homosexuality should never be "accepted" either "verbally" or "legally". Homosexuality is called an abomination by God.  Support it if you wish; I for one will not, nor will most of the other good folks here.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 21, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> This is the statement I have a major issue with. You were not totally referring to the murder and/or bullying of homosexuals. You are in fact, supporting their way of life and even going so far as to want it recognized and protected by law.
> 
> Homosexuality should never be "accepted" either "verbally" or "legally". Homosexuality is called an abomination by God.  Support it if you wish; I for one will not, nor will most of the other good folks here.



a-men brother ,thats why the congregation at my church has decided as a whole, not to support mcdonalds or any other org. that supports homosexuality. we're all about spreading christianity, not satanism,and that is what it is---satanism


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## TTom (Apr 21, 2008)

However my own desription ran the Orginal source, The Day of Silence group. specificly has the goal that I listed, I even gave you the original source documentation. The Day of Silence is specificly prptesting bullying, assault and murder of students for their sexual orientation. Want the proof, all you have to do is google them up, and read their own words.

I provided the quotation about who this year's dedication of the day is to. An eight grader murdered because someone didn't like that he was gay. Had the orientations been reversed. Had the student been straight and murdered by a gay student for being straight what would this board's response have been?

Widowmaker the man shall not lie with a man thing,
You'll find that in the OLD Testament along with all the other jewish Levidican Laws. Lev 18:22.


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## gasman26 (Apr 21, 2008)

TTom said:


> However my own desription ran the Orginal source, The Day of Silence group. specificly has the goal that I listed, I even gave you the original source documentation. The Day of Silence is specificly prptesting bullying, assault and murder of students for their sexual orientation. Want the proof, all you have to do is google them up, and read their own words.
> 
> I provided the quotation about who this year's dedication of the day is to. An eight grader murdered because someone didn't like that he was gay. Had the orientations been reversed. Had the student been straight and murdered by a gay student for being straight what would this board's response have been?
> 
> ...



Romans 1

27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

that is the new testament if i am right


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## tcward (Apr 21, 2008)

TTom said:


> Still shocked to see folks worried about a volentary student lead, protest mostly about acknowledging the bigotry displayed against homosexuals. The "Homosexual Adjenda"????? That they be accepted as a human being allowed to live their lives without fear of being attacked verbally or physicaly or legally for being homosexual.
> OMG what a horrid thing to have for an agenda.
> 
> From the Web Page of the National Day of Silence
> ...



Their National Day of Complete Silence will come at judgement day.


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## TTom (Apr 22, 2008)

The difference is I'm willing to let God be the only one judgeing them, and I'm not advocating removing their free will by passing laws to force on them what God may or may not wish them to do.

I'm not reverting to middle school name calling towards them, I'll not advocate violence towards them and am happy to stand with them in protesting the wrongs visited on them, as much as I am willing to stand beside anyone else who is victimized by their fellow man. BTW I catch just as much grief defending christians on other sites I spend time on.


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Apr 22, 2008)

I go to white county high school, where one of the queer clubs are and i aint proud to say that but its funny how their was so much of a fight to get that dern queer club and after it got passed the majority of the girls ended up pregnant, one Kerry Pacer lost scholarship due to her being pregnant.  I say we send all the queers to one island and if they are true queers all the queers will eventually die out, everytime a new queer "comes out of the closet" send 'em to queerville TTom Do you think that people are born gay???


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## TTom (Apr 22, 2008)

Gay Concentration camps. Hmm where have we heard that idea before? Oh yeah that Adolph guy.


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Apr 22, 2008)

well your more than welcome to go with em, do you think that they are born that way or they chose to be that way??


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## usmcvet (Apr 22, 2008)

If you think GA is bad, you aint seen nothing yet. The radical homosexuals practically run the MA legislature and the school system.  David Parker has been arrested for taking a moral stand against the propaganda pushed onto his elementary school age son.  Anyone who really buys in to the so-called bullying and "hate" crimes perpetrated on homos, is sorely misinformed.  The haters are the homos who refuse to allow Christians the freedom to speak.  Check out the web site by Mass Resistance who try to stand against this outrageous immorality. http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08b/day_of_silence/ma_schools.html

I stopped counting at 100+ and that's just to the m's.
Heaven help us all.


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## TTom (Apr 23, 2008)

Gee appreciate the offer to join the concentration caps of your 4th or 5th reiche (sp) Powerstroke.

USMCvet I'll gladly stand in protest for christians right to free speach as firmly as I stand for the idea behind the Day of Silence.

However I guess the facts of the murders documented to have been committed because of someones sexual orientation are all just fabricated out of whole cloth. Mathew Shepard never existed, Lawrence King, just went into hiding not the grave. 
This is starting to sound more and more like Phelps and the God Hates Fags group which really sickens me.


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## Lead Poison (Apr 23, 2008)

TTom said:


> This is starting to sound more and more like Phelps and the God Hates Fags group which really sickens me.



God actually hates...the sin.

However, he loves the sinner.


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## usmcvet (Apr 23, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> God actually hates...the sin.
> 
> However, he loves the sinner.



Amen, brother.


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## toddboucher (Apr 23, 2008)

TTom said:


> Gee appreciate the offer to join the concentration caps of your 4th or 5th reiche (sp) Powerstroke.
> 
> USMCvet I'll gladly stand in protest for christians right to free speach as firmly as I stand for the idea behind the Day of Silence.
> 
> ...



Can you answer the question asked- do YOU feel they are born that way or is it a choice?


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## usmcvet (Apr 23, 2008)

TTom said:


> Gee appreciate the offer to join the concentration caps of your 4th or 5th reiche (sp) Powerstroke.
> 
> USMCvet I'll gladly stand in protest for christians right to free speach as firmly as I stand for the idea behind the Day of Silence.
> 
> ...



As I recall the facts, Shepard was killed due to a drug deal gone bad and not as the sodomite lobby would claim.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 23, 2008)

how about all the peopl who get killed because they are in gangs.  lets have a day of silence for the crips.


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## fishbum2000 (Apr 23, 2008)

is it just me or does it strike anyone else as odd that these schools are willing to have an entire day of silence for homosexual rights but as a Christian we can barely have a moment of silence for God?
i dont feel as if the school system should allow this, or at the least we should be allowed to have a day of silence for Jesus. how much hair would that proposal raise.
i am thankful that my childs school is not on the list, but i can truly say if it ever is he will stay home and read his bible that day


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## TTom (Apr 24, 2008)

Well I'll answer the born question simply by turning the question around. Are we born heterosexual or do we choose to be heterosexual.

And if we choose then please provide the date you made the concious choice to find the opposite gender attractive sexually.

(My answer is obviously that it is something people are born with moreso than choose. )

I will however stand up for the idea that there should be permitted student led days of silence for christianity or most any other cause the students lead. The key word being student lead, because I sure don't want an adult in a possition of power forcing the issue on a kid.


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## Lead Poison (Apr 24, 2008)

TTom said:


> Well I'll answer the born question simply by turning the question around. Are we born heterosexual or do we choose to be heterosexual.
> 
> And if we choose then please provide the date you made the concious choice to find the opposite gender attractive sexually.
> 
> (My answer is obviously that it is something people are born with moreso than choose. )



I disagree, homosexuals are not born that way. When did you choose to walk, when did you choose to be a nice guy, when did you choose to be a safe driver? 

No, some things in life you are taught, or learn from watching others. However, there are some things people allow Satan to lure them into, like homosexuality.


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## TTom (Apr 24, 2008)

Yet you avoid my question, so I'll ask it again please discribe th day you made the choice to be heterosexual.
How hard was the choice to make? What pros and cons did you weight out? Was there really ever any doubt in your mind which way you would turn out?


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 24, 2008)

TTom said:


> Yet you avoid my question, so I'll ask it again please discribe th day you made the choice to be heterosexual.
> How hard was the choice to make? What pros and cons did you weight out? Was there really ever any doubt in your mind which way you would turn out?



this cant be----the day i was born with a reproductive organ!!! god gave us 2 different types of reproductive organs to procreate.  my stepbrother is a homosexual, his father wasnt around much so all he received was feminine influence, thats why hes gay--wasnt born that way.


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## Chadx1981 (Apr 24, 2008)

Hey Widow lets get out of here


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 24, 2008)

gone


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Apr 24, 2008)

TTom you say that you are born that way sayin that God created you that way, well all i can say to you is 1 cor 14:38 KJV says that if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant and i believe you classify as being ignorant because i think if ""God made"" people gay then Why did Sodom and Gomorrah get destroyed. and no i aint sayin God hates fags so dont put words in my mouth or put me in the Phelps' crew all i am telling you is KJV Bible and if you can back your side up with book then i will take a look at it other wise i think your opinion comes from preference instead of the Bible. One more question you seem to take a lot of offence here so are you gay??? and dont beat around the bush and not answer this question asked


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 24, 2008)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> I go to white county high school, where one of the queer clubs are and i aint proud to say that but its funny how their was so much of a fight to get that dern queer club and after it got passed the majority of the girls ended up pregnant, one Kerry Pacer lost scholarship due to her being pregnant.  I say we send all the queers to one island and if they are true queers all the queers will eventually die out, everytime a new queer "comes out of the closet" send 'em to queerville TTom Do you think that people are born gay???


So, what?  The gay boys all started getting girls pregnant?  The lesbians started having unprotected sex with boys?

Nice to see the venomous hatred of gays at this site is still prevalent.


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## No. GA. Mt. Man (Apr 24, 2008)




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## Lead Poison (Apr 24, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> So, what?  The gay boys all started getting girls pregnant?  The lesbians started having unprotected sex with boys?
> 
> Nice to see the venomous hatred of gays at this site is still prevalent.



I totally disagree! 

Most folks on this forum are very fine, God fearing people and do not hate. The members here make this the best forum to be found.

They love the sinner, but hate the sin. That's what everyone should do. 

However, they don't endorse or approve of the sin in any way, shape, fashion or form. Nor should they!


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 24, 2008)

Keep telling yourself that, if that makes you happy.  I got called all sorts of names here in the past, was called "sick" and even had at least one poster saying I should just die.  Doesn't sound too loving to me.


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## mens ex machina (Apr 24, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> However, they don't endorse or approve of the sin in any way, shape, fashion or form. Nor should they!


Except the handful that want to round up all the "queers" into a concentration camp.

http://www.thefuturejew.com/image/belsen01.jpg

Great idea.... and yes, homosexuals WERE included in the Holocaust.


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Apr 24, 2008)

well machina you think some ppl can take sarcasim you not being one of them obvisiouly, and in concentration camps the were tortured and gassed and killed, i never once said to kill any of them so i dont see how it was anything like holocaust.  Lead poison said it all most of us arent saying that they should be killed, or abused or anything like that.  Biggest reason is because sin is sin, and i sin everyday but God forgives. but I don't understand why some ppl try and take what someone says and turn it around to make something to argue about??


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## mens ex machina (Apr 24, 2008)

Powerstroke_4x4_08 said:


> in concentration camps the were tortured and gassed and killed, i never once said to kill any of them so i dont see how it was anything like holocaust.


You clearly said you'd like to put them on an island so they can die out. 

"I say we send all the queers to one island and if they are true queers all the queers will eventually die out, everytime a new queer 'comes out of the closet' send 'em to queerville"

I don't see how that is any different from killing them directly. Which I know you wouldn't do. Nothing about what you said is sarcastic or funny. It's malicious and hateful.


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## TTom (Apr 25, 2008)

#1 I am heterosexual, so I am not claiming I was born homosexual, just to keep the facts straight. I do however believe that homosexuality is a condition that is born coded into a person's DNA.
Scientific experiments with fruit flies have lately given quite a bit of evidence backing the idea up.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

As to the why of Sodom and Gamora
Go back to your KJV and read again why Sodom and Gamora were destroyed, 

They were slated for destruction BEFORE the angels arrived.
Wickedness was charged by God and Abraham plead for mercy, God started the negotiation off with find me 50 rightious men, then 40 then 30 then 20 and finally 10. But the city was slated for destruction before the investigation. 

Even if we look only at the encounter with the angels at Lot's house. It has been interpreted two ways and only one of them has it as a homosexual issue.
The other way is to interpret "so that we might know them" in the more simple context of these strangers are inside the city after dark bring them out that we might learn who they are. (Interogation, thus lack of hospitality)

I lean towards a lack of hospitality as being the correct interpretation, for a simple reason it displays a finding much more in common sense with how people in general act. Bring forth a crowd of folks and the odds are pretty low that all of them will be homosexually inclined, even assuming they are all drunk.
However the odds that people will get paranoid and mean spirited about stangers in their city, has had so many examples through history that it is almost commonplace behaviour especially if you assume drunkeness. 

Another question that follows If the sin was homosexuality then why were the wives and daughters of the Sodomites also killed? Are we to believe that the entire population of the city was guilty of homosexuality? 

Additionally Ezekiel tells us the sins of Sodom were:
Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it. 

Next we find Deuteronomy 29:22-26 Why has the LORD done thus to this land? What means the heat of this great anger?' Then men would say, 'It is because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt, and went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they had not known and whom he had not allotted to them.

Finally the argument of If the men were homosexual what would have possessed Lot to offer up his daughers, they would have been of no interest and thus a pretty poor bribery attempt? 

Thus I am convinced that the sins of Sodom and Gamora were more about not taking care of the poor even though they had the means to do so, violating the laws of hospitality, Pride, and Idolitry.
Because the sriture tells me exactly so in multiple places.


----------



## 60Grit (Apr 25, 2008)

Boy,,,,,,,,,,this thread certainly has evolved.......

op2:


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## SBG (Apr 25, 2008)

60Grit said:


> Boy,,,,,,,,,,this thread certainly has evolved.......
> 
> op2:



...or adapted.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 25, 2008)

mutated...


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## redwards (Apr 25, 2008)

TTom,
You certainly have the right to your opinion, as do we all.
Perhaps what you state is a very big part of the reason we find ourselves in the predicament we are in this day and time.



TTom said:


> .........
> I lean towards a lack of hospitality as being the correct interpretation, for a simple reason it displays a finding much more in common sense with how people in general act. Bring forth a crowd of folks and the odds are pretty low that all of them will be homosexually inclined, even assuming they are all drunk......


 
Left to himself, man is more likely going to depend on his own common sense.
When in actuality, man should be depending on God sense!


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## TTom (Apr 25, 2008)

Thus why I use both my God given common sense combined with God's sense to mentioning the reasons for destroying Sodom and Gamora in the scriptures in multiple places.

I certainly don't believe I have all the answers, those will only come after I no longer have questions. Until then I trust that God knows my heart and soul are seeking the right place, and the right thing. That I seek to understand his will to the best of my ability. I always have trouble with the idea that any of us should have too much faith in OUR ability in this area (knowing the truth about his will for all people).

Compassion for my fellow man being a commandment, I simply work my way though reconciling the scriptures with a very personal relationship with God.


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## Dana Young (Apr 25, 2008)

White county is not taking part in this.


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## PWalls (Apr 25, 2008)

God is not the author of sin or evil. He calls homosexuality an abomination and a sin. To say that you are "born" that way or that you are genetically coded that way is telling yourself that God created someone that way. That means that God created one with the full knowledge that they would be an abomination to Him. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Homosexuality is a choice. Heterosexuality is also a choice. God's design is for procreation between man and woman. Therefore, we are all programmed for heterosexuality (no need to find a day you chose to accept that because it is wired into you since the dawn of Creation) and some people CHOOSE homosexuality.


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## TTom (Apr 25, 2008)

So PWalls then please pick up the question mentioned and lft unanswered by all so far.

Please describe the day you made the choice to be heterosexual.
Was it a difficult decission, did you wiegh the options? What was the factor that decided the issue of which gender was going to cause you sexual attraction?

Ah I see the cop out of Heterosexuality is natural but Homosexuality is choice. Sorry can't buy into that one because sexual attraction is either hard wired OR choice, it cannot be one and the other.
Seeing that it happens in animals without higher brain function as well as with animals with higher brain function Fruit Flies, Dolphins, Man etc. I contend it is hard wired like many other genetic issues that perplex the mind and fall into the catagory of We cannot know God's mind entirely some things just are beyond our understanding (God works in mysterious ways)


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 25, 2008)

TTom said:


> So PWalls then please pick up the question mentioned and lft unanswered by all so far.
> 
> Please describe the day you made the choice to be heterosexual.
> Was it a difficult decission, did you wiegh the options? What was the factor that decided the issue of which gender was going to cause you sexual attraction?
> ...



i did answer that question---it was the day i was old enough to see that i had a male reproductive organ.. he is correct..why would god let what he considers abomination to be a natural occurance in the life of his creation.....
   god made adam and eve---not adam, eve,and bill--then told adam to pick one, eve or bill.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 25, 2008)

and ttom you havent answered my question---should we have a day of silence for the crips..think of all those poor people who die due to gang violence


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 25, 2008)

PWalls said:


> God is not the author of sin or evil.


You might want to rethink that statement:


			
				Isaiah 45:7 said:
			
		

> I form the light, and create darkness: *I* make peace, and *create evil*: I the LORD do all these things.





PWalls said:


> Homosexuality is a choice. Heterosexuality is also a choice. . . . Therefore, we are all programmed for heterosexuality (no need to find a day you chose to accept that because it is wired into you since the dawn of Creation) and some people CHOOSE homosexuality.


Heterosexuality is both a choice _and_ pre-programmed but homosexuality is a choice?  Something that is programmed is most definitely _not_ a choice.



widowmaker1 said:


> i did answer that question---it was the day i was old enough to see that i had a male reproductive organ..


That is the day you noticed you had a penis and nothing more.  In order for choice to be involved, you would have had to been attracted to both females and males and chosen one over the other.  So, when did that happen?  When did you consciously decide to _stop _wanting to have carnal relations with other males and stick to females only from that point forward?



widowmaker1 said:


> should we have a day of silence for the crips..think of all those poor people who die due to gang violence


A day of silence for thugs and murderers is hardly comparable to a day of silence for _victims_ of abuse and murder.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 25, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> You might want to rethink that statement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
thats what i'm saying--it's not ment to be a choice, never have i lusted for another man, and NATURALLY iam attracted to females---ah-ha thus the penis


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## mens ex machina (Apr 25, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> thats what i'm saying--*it's not ment to be a choice*, never have i lusted for another man, and *NATURALLY* iam attracted to females


Right. It's not a choice. Glad you see that!

And yes, a day of silence for victims of anything is not even close to a day of silence for victimizers. But you're entitled to extend your own personal thoughts to whoever you want.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 25, 2008)

im definetly pro hetro-i believe, like the bible says-homosexuality is an abomination.--- the gang thing is a sarcasm,just symbolizing that there are victims of lots of wrong doings, so why in the world would i want homosexuality to be the one  that i want my children to experience,,,when i try to teach them that it is wrong.


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## PWalls (Apr 25, 2008)

TTom said:


> So PWalls then please pick up the question mentioned and lft unanswered by all so far.
> 
> Please describe the day you made the choice to be heterosexual.
> Was it a difficult decission, did you wiegh the options? What was the factor that decided the issue of which gender was going to cause you sexual attraction?
> ...



I answered it. Read my post. I am programmed by God to be heterosexual. That is His plan. I didn't have to make a choice to be heterosexual. I just am.


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## Hooty Hoot (Apr 25, 2008)

I`m not a homosexual nor have I had any homosexual experiences..............but, like you other heterosexuals, I probably know everything there is to know about it. If there are any parts that y`all are not sure about, I`ll be glad to clear it up for you.


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 25, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> thats what i'm saying--it's not ment to be a choice, never have i lusted for another man, and NATURALLY iam attracted to females---ah-ha thus the penis


Correct.  It is not a choice.  _You_ did not choose to be heterosexual; _I_ did not choose to be homosexual.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Would you tell a left-handed person that everyone is born right-handed but they've chosen to leave the natural use of the right hand for the abomination of the left?

Speaking of abominations:

Many varieties of seafood are an abomination, per Leviticus 11.  So are many birds and things that creep or fly. 

A twice-divorced woman is an abomination, per Deuteronomy 24.  So is a woman divorced by her first husband and widowed by her second.  A man should marry neither, due to their abomination.

Women wearing trousers (i.e., men's garments) is an abomination, according to Deuteronomy 22.

Isaiah 1 indicates incense is an abomination.


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## mens ex machina (Apr 25, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> im definetly pro hetro-i believe, like the bible says-homosexuality is an abomination.--- the gang thing is a sarcasm,just symbolizing that there are victims of lots of wrong doings, so why in the world would i want homosexuality to be the one  that i want my children to experience,,,when i try to teach them that it is wrong.


You should be teaching them that violence and hate is wrong, be it from a gang or homophobes.


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## Big Texun (Apr 25, 2008)

This may surprise some... but I am ALL FOR a "DAY OF SILENCE FOR HOMOSEXUALS."

If they can indeed remain silent for a day, I'll be both surprised and happy.

Sorry, couldn't resist. If the obvious joke has already been taken, forgive me... I came in late.

Big Tex


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 25, 2008)

Then it can be followed by a week of silence from all the heterosexuals who constantly condemn us.  There's more of you, so you need more quiet time to balance things.


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## Big Texun (Apr 25, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> Then it can be followed by a week of silence from all the heterosexuals who constantly condemn us.  There's more of you, so you need more quiet time to balance things.



Fair enough. Problem solved.

Big Tex

PS: Was that "condemn us" a Freudian slip or, are you really one of THEM? I still love ya, even if you are.


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 25, 2008)

No Freudian slip


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (Apr 25, 2008)

well Widow these people dont take sarcasim on here, and i might have over looked some of the other normal ones on here but so far its Pwall Big texun and Widow seem to be the only normals left.  As i said before the Bible backs me up if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant and its pretty easy for me to see God intended us to be straight, other wise why even make a woman???? Why not make a man that could have a baby.  Oh my goodness its that easy to understand.  All yall "wanna be" science nerds that talk about all these smart monkeys and friut flies that are gay, and your comparing yourselves to monkeys, maybe yall are a little off.  Its just like knowing that birds are made to fly and dogs are made to run on four legs to me, but each to their on, i just dont see why God made woman if he knew that it would work another way???? Or shoot south of the mason maybe some of "yall" have had a baby through your man parts wouldnt suprise me after all that ive read on here. SURE AM GLAD I GOT MY BOOTS ON


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 25, 2008)

I don't recall anyone making any claims that men could get pregnant.

I do, however, recall people who don't have the faintest clue about sexual orientation other than roughly seven verses in The Bible telling gay folks how _wrong _they are to be gay while conveniently ignoring many, many laws, both Old Testament and New, from that same Bible.

Some will claim that OT law is no longer relevant due to the coming of Christ yet will still repeat three OT verses that condemn sexual relations between men.  If those are still relevant, how is it that laws regarding things like children born out of wedlock not being allowed to enter the congregation, nor their descendents for _ten generations_ (we're talking _centuries _here, folks), are no longer deemed appropriate?  I mention that one specifically as many people try to make the excuse that making cloth of mixed fiber or males not shaving off the corners of their beards are laws of ritual and symbol whereas the gay one is morality-based and so is still in force.  Having a child out of wedlock would definitely be a morality issue, so how is it that Deuteronomy 23:2 is let off the hook?

As for NT law, the only words possibly condemning homosexual behavior come from Paul, not God.  Further, Jesus himself makes it quite clear that a man who divorces his wife and remarries is an adulterer.  So where is the outcry regarding divorce and remarriage?  Thou shalt not commit adultery is one of Ten Commandments.  Where are the demands that marriage be restricted not just to one man and one woman but also to _one time_?  Since the major reason given for banning same-sex marriage is God allegedly doesn't approve, how can you in good conscious fight to deny gays the right to marry while allowing straights to divorce and remarry again-and-again-and-again-and-again, like Newt Gingrich, for example, a "good Christian man" and serial adulterer?


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## PWalls (Apr 26, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> As for NT law, the only words possibly condemning homosexual behavior come from Paul, not God.



See there's your problem and where your "interpretation" loses all credibility and worth.

The entire Bible was inspired by God. Period. End of Story. Man wrote it but they wrote what they were told to write. If you don't understand and comprehend and more importantly "know and believe" that, then the Bible is nothing to you. Inerrancy and Infallibility of the Word of God is something no Christian should ever doubt.


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 26, 2008)

If that is your belief, do you stand at the door of your church and bar dwarves from getting close to the altar?

Does your churh allow someone whose great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was born out-of-wedlock to join the congregation?

Does your church allow a man to remarry his first wife if she had been married again in the interim?

In fact, does your church allow _any _man or woman who has been divorced to marry in the church?

Those are all unnacceptable to God as written in The Bible.  Was he mistaken to say those things?  Did he later change his mind?  Or do you just ignore them?

In addition, God quite clearly states that he creates evil in Isaiah 45:7 yet you made the claim he does not.  Who is mistaken?  You?  God?  The author of Isaiah?


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 26, 2008)

you are right , it is not a choice----you are OBLIGATED to GOD to function as he created you. when you choose to to lust for the same sex, then you have made a choice ---influenced by satan


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## SouthOfTheMasonDixon (Apr 26, 2008)

You don't get it.  You never will, apparently.  I hope none of your children or relatives turns out to be homosexual and has to go through the pain of rejection by and hostility from you.


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## Big Texun (Apr 28, 2008)

Back from the weekend...

Why is it that we Christians feel obligated to convict people of their sins? Isn't that God's job?

I personally think that SouthoftheMasonDixon has made some very good points. To add one, how many Christians smoke? Do we still allow them to attend church, even though they clearly continue to live in sin?

Big Tex


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## Big Texun (Apr 28, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> You don't get it.  You never will, apparently.  I hope none of your children or relatives turns out to be homosexual and has to go through the pain of rejection by and hostility from you.



My older sister and her husband (who still live in Texas) are extremely active in their church. As a matter of fact, they just sold their home and bought another so that they could be closer to their church.

They have two children. Their daughter and her husband are in full time Christian ministry. After high school, their son just kinda dropped off the face of the planet. When I'd talk to my sister on the phone, she'd talk a lot about her daughter... and I'd always have to ask, "How's Cory? What he up to these days?"  She'd say something like, "Oh, Cory's moved to Seattle... or Orlando..." and that's about all she'd say. This went on for twenty years or so.

Two years ago, after my oldest son got married, I was driving my sister and her daughter to the airport for their return flight home. When I asked them the usual "What's Cory up to?" question, they finally mustered up the courage to tell me that Cory is gay. She was petrified to tell me, I could tell.

They have decided, through much prayer and quiet study, to love Cory as he is. I can only assume that it took them years to reach this decision... and, since they made it, their son has since moved back to his hometown, and he and his partner are attending church with them.

I wish they had made the same decision a lot sooner. 

What would you do, if it happened to you?

Big Tex


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## Lead Poison (Apr 28, 2008)

It's a sin that is unnatural, disgusting, and an abomination, and should never be accepted, or supported...period!

I WOULD NEVER WANT MY CHILD BE A HOMOSEXUAL!

A homosexual lifestyle does NOT honor or please God, I assure you!


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 29, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> You don't get it.  You never will, apparently.  I hope none of your children or relatives turns out to be homosexual and has to go through the pain of rejection by and hostility from you.



your'e right.in fact you dont get it either. my step brother is gay. i show no hostility toward him, i still treat him as family ,but he knows how i feel. i never said -a homosexual couldnt get into heaven either, only god can can be the judge. i have only expressed my beliefs ,and why i believe this way.


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## Big Texun (Apr 29, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> It's a sin that is unnatural, disgusting, and an abomination, and should never be accepted, or supported...period!
> 
> I WOULD NEVER WANT MY CHILD BE A HOMOSEXUAL!
> 
> A homosexual lifestyle does NOT honor or please God, I assure you!



You could also be talking about smoking, or dipping, or or or.

To God, ALL sin is ugly. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Big Tex


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 29, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> Judge not, lest ye be judged.
> 
> Big Tex


 

That has to be the most misused quote in The Bible.

DB BB


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## Lead Poison (Apr 29, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> You could also be talking about smoking, or dipping, or or or.
> 
> To God, ALL sin is ugly. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
> 
> Big Tex



It's not judging! It's about not accepting or supporting it.

By the way, I don't want them smoking or dipping either. They are nasty and disgusting too.


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## Big Texun (Apr 29, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> That has to be the most misused quote in The Bible.
> 
> DB BB



Okay, try this one

"And why do you point out the spec in your brother's eye before removing the log from you own?"

Big Tex


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## fishbum2000 (Apr 29, 2008)

wether or not homosexuality is a choice, a lot of homosexuals make the choice to advertise the fact that this is thier way of life.the rainbow bumperstickers for example. in this country you have the right to put one of these on your car, but then when you make this choice you must realise there may be consiquinces for your actions. like it or not most people dont approve of this way of life and in trying in everyway possible to make sure people know you are gay you will bring persicution on yourself. 
i am a married heterosexual  however i have been propisitioned by gay men who knew this and thought it would be fun to try change me. if i had been a different person they may have been hurt or shot or beat with in an inch of thier life, as it is i just walked away after telling them off.
i guess my point is if you dont want to be persicuted by people then stop trying to force your lifestyle on them. if you want to be different thats fine but stop bellyaching when the "straight" majority tell you we are tired of hearing about it.


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## Big Texun (Apr 29, 2008)

Agreed. Kinda like spitting tobacco on another man's boots.


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 30, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> Okay, try this one
> 
> "And why do you point out the spec in your brother's eye before removing the log from you own?"
> 
> Big Tex


 
That is a good one!

"VI. Those who take upon them to rebuke and reform others are concerned to look to it that they be themselves blameless, and harmless, and without rebuke, v. 41, 42. 1. Those with a very ill grace censure the faults of others who are not aware of their own faults. It is very absurd for any to pretend to be so quick-sighted as to spy small faults in others, like a mote in the eye, when they are themselves so perfectly past feeling as not to perceive _a beam in their own eye._ 2. Those are altogether unfit to help to reform others whose reforming charity does not begin at home. How canst thou offer thy service to thy brother, to _pull out the mote from his eye,_ which requires a good eye as well as a good hand, when thou thyself hast a _beam in thine own eye,_ and makest no complaint of it? 3. Those therefore who would be serviceable to the souls of others must first make it appear that they are solicitous about their own souls. To help to pull the mote out of our brother’s eye is a good work, but then we must qualify ourselves for it by beginning with ourselves; and our reforming our own lives may, by the influence of example, contribute to others reforming theirs." -Matthew Henry

So when you see a brother doing wrong, you won't confront them?

Doesn't the Bible teach us that if we see a brother stumbling that we should go to him in love and talk with him about it and try and help him not stumble again?

"Those that are led by the common opinion, course, and custom, of this world, are themselves blind, and are led by the blind, and will perish with the world that _sits in darkness._ Those that ignorantly, and at a venture, _follow the __multitude to do evil,_ follow the blind in the broad way that leads the many to _destruction." - Matthew Henry_

DB BB


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## Big Texun (Apr 30, 2008)

Double Barrel BB said:


> Doesn't the Bible teach us that if we see a brother stumbling that we should go to him in love and talk with him about it and try and help him not stumble again?



Yes, it sure does. However, in the context of this forum, I think there are two problems with your logic.

1. Not all of the participants in this forum are indeed brothers in Christ. If he or she is not yet a brother in Christ, they are not yet experiencing the very personal conviction that starts to come from the Holy Spirit. How did Jesus approach the prostitute? Did he judge her?

2. All two often, people remember the "going to the brother" part.... but, forget the all important "in LOVE" punchline. 

Happy Trails,
Big Tex


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## fishndinty (Apr 30, 2008)

There is a mountain of scientific evidence not proving, but STRONGLY suggesting that there are specific genetic traits that wire some people toward homosexuality.  In fact, there have been studies in mice where a gene has been turned on and off causing mice to switch sexual orientation!

If you want to ignore scientific evidence, that's your business; God gave us minds and the ability to use them to glorify Him.  But to hold to a belief that being gay is a choice just because it "can't" be any other way if God is righteous and loving is an affront to a God more complex than any of us can fully understand.  

I am not saying homosexuality is right either; I am just saying it isn't a choice.  Those of you who struggle with your waistlines, do you feel like it was your choice to always struggle with your weight, or have you just always been that way?  Those of you with anger problems, did you choose to have a short fuse or have you just always been quick to anger?  We all have shortcomings from the moment we're born.  It's called being "born into sin".  I dunno....might have read that phrase somewhere before.


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## Double Barrel BB (Apr 30, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> Yes, it sure does. However, in the context of this forum, I think there are two problems with your logic.
> 
> 1. Not all of the participants in this forum are indeed brothers in Christ. If he or she is not yet a brother in Christ, they are not yet experiencing the very personal conviction that starts to come from the Holy Spirit. How did Jesus approach the prostitute? Did he judge her?
> 
> ...


 
<DL><DT>*John 8:1-11* <DD>*1* Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. *2* And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. *3* And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, *4* They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. *5* Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? *6* This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. *7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. **8* And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. *9* And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. *10* When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? *11* She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. </DD></DL> 
1. I believe that at that moment Jesus did Save the adultress and She felt that conviction I am sure. She then was a Sister in Christ.

Do I think we can judge "the world"? Yes, but only by using God's handbook, The Bible, and not our own personal feelings. What God says is wrong, is wrong, and if the person that you are witnessing to doesn't believe it is wrong after you have showed them, we are told to leave them and let them be.

Too often I have heard people say that God would not condemn that person so why should we... Well, God flooded the entire earth and only saved a handful of people, God destroyed Sodom and Gemorrah for their sinfulness and rejection of God. I am sure that God would not want us to condone a lifestyle in which he had destroyed long ago. He would want us to Love them and witness to them, but not to condone or accept their lifestyle.

2. If we don't go to a brother/sister "in Love" then we should not expect them to hear us, because we have not done it in the right way. So yes, a lot of Christians have a problem with the "in Love" part and I would hope that if a fellow Christian saw me stumble that they would come to me "in Love" because if they don't I am sure I would take offense to it. The "in Love" part is very very important.

DB BB


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## PWalls (Apr 30, 2008)

fishndinty said:


> I am not saying homosexuality is right either; I am just saying it isn't a choice.



It is a sin. Sin is a choice.

Must be nice to have a crutch to fall back on. "I didn't choose to do it, I was made that way".


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## fishndinty (Apr 30, 2008)

So I guess you don't believe in the germ theory of disease either...or the fact that people can have chemical imbalances in their brains that can cause them to be violent or suicidal.  Those are all just choices people make.


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## widowmaker1 (Apr 30, 2008)

fishndinty said:


> So I guess you don't believe in the germ theory of disease either...or the fact that people can have chemical imbalances in their brains that can cause them to be violent or suicidal.  Those are all just choices people make.



what does that have to do with being gay. i know people right now who were straight, then tried being homosexual,and are now straight again.mostly females. choice-choice -choice


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## PWalls (Apr 30, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> what does that have to do with being gay.



Nothing really. Just another attempt to rationalize or explain away a choice. Homosexuality is more acceptable or it's more palatable if it can be rationalized away as something other than a choice. Looking at something and seeing shades of grey is still wrong. It's either black or white.


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## mens ex machina (May 1, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> what does that have to do with being gay. i know people right now who were straight, then tried being homosexual,and are now straight again.mostly females. choice-choice -choice



Um, no CRAP. People experiment, but in the end you're either gay or straight! You can CHOSE to have a homosexual experience/perform homosexual acts, but that doesn't make you a homosexual unless you are actually ATTRACTED to the same gender! Lord almighty!



			
				fishbum2000 said:
			
		

> rainbow bumperstickers for example. in this country you have the right to put one of these on your car, but then when you make this choice you must realise there may be consiquinces for your actions. like it or not most people dont approve of this way of life and in trying in everyway possible to make sure people know you are gay you will bring persicution on yourself.


Does a stupid sticker really aggravate you that much?  It's just a sticker! People have those Jesus fish things on their car, you don't see non-Christians kicking the crap out of them! (not in American anyway)


EDITED TO REMOVE PROFANITY...JIM


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## fishbum2000 (May 1, 2008)

mens ex machina said:


> Does a stupid sticker really aggravate you that much?  People have those Jesus fish things on their car, you don't see non-Christians kicking the crap out of them! (not in American anyway)



no it dosent agrivate me at all. as i stated i am not the type to get violent about a persons choice in sexual  preference. all i am saying is if you chose to advertise this way of life then you bring attention to yourself and in doing so you may have to live with the conciquinces(sp?) of your choices. like it or not thats a fact of life i am not saying its right i am only saying if you do the research i think you will find that over half of the violence towards gays happened after an unsolicited advance was made. as a christian i wouldnt go into a satanic worship place and start preaching the Gospel without weighing the pros and cons. if i did i would probably get beat up or maybe even become the nights sacrifice. same type of thing if a man hits on a drunk redneck he might get beat up


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## Powerstroke_4x4_08 (May 2, 2008)

Well i am just going to stick with what i said before if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant, cause all yall that sympathize with homos are still goin to sympathize with homos no matter what is said yall are goin to remain ignorant.  I still dont understand why God made adam and eve?? I just have a hard time understanding why God would do that if he had intended for it to be man and man or woman and woman.  Yall keep goin back to yalls crutch trying to make us look bad for not agreeing with it, i dont believe i have read anyone saying that you couldnt go to heaven if you were or had been gay, so tex why do you keep getting hung up on all these other sins, i believe i already said if you would go back and read that God sees sin as sin, so your not telling me nuthin i dont already know all that i think most of us are saying is it aint right and the argument is that it is alright with God, so why get off subject by saying smoking is a sin right>? oh yeah as pwalls said it makes yall feel better if yall have a way to make it right.  Well i am here to tell you if you think about anything long enough and you want it to be right or wrong you can make it the way you want it as long as you have a way to back it up, but if you really want to find the truth out trying praying about it you will always get a more clear answer.


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## tcward (May 3, 2008)

SouthOfTheMasonDixon said:


> If that is your belief, do you stand at the door of your church and bar dwarves from getting close to the altar?
> 
> Does your churh allow someone whose great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was born out-of-wedlock to join the congregation?
> 
> ...



I would invite a homosexual to my church in hope that he or she could get right with the lord, because where they are going there ain't no air conditioning!


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## StriperAddict (May 5, 2008)

Article on "DOS":

Enough with the 'gay' stuff! Matt Barber - Guest Columnist - 5/5/2008 1:40:00 PM


<STORYLEAD>
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





On April 25, adult homosexual activists with the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network (GLSEN) held their annual "Day of Silence" (DOS) propaganda push. During DOS, teachers and students in roughly 3,000 middle schools, high schools and colleges across the country are cynically used as culture war pawns in an effort to legitimize conventionally immoral, objectively deviant and demonstrably high-risk sexual behaviors.
</STORYLEAD>


<STORYBODY>Kids and teachers are encouraged on DOS to disrupt the school day by refusing to speak in class as a show of support to students who self-identify as "GLBT" (No, GLBT has nothing to do with bacon, lettuce and tomato; it's liberalese for "gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender").

DOS purports to confront the alleged systematic harassment and bullying of sexually confused students who consider themselves "GLBT." Naturally, where there is _actual_ bullying, anywhere, anytime, for any reason, those responsible should be firmly disciplined. However, the reality is that DOS has very little to do with "bullying" and has everything to do with pro-homosexual, anti-Christian indoctrination.

Consider that during DOS, many kids who hold time-honored traditional values relative to sexual morality (i.e., that human sexuality is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife within the bonds of marriage) are frequently and ironically tagged as "hateful," "bigoted," and "homophobic." (Who's doing the bullying?)

But this year, something extraordinary happened on the way to the brainwashing. Kids at schools all over the country stood tall and said, "Enough is enough!" Untold thousands of students participated in a peaceful, pro-family counter effort called the "Day of Silence Walkout."

In unyielding defense of God's design for natural human sexuality, marriage and family, these gutsy kids stayed home from school on DOS (with their parents' permission) and let school officials know why. Some of them even participated in peaceful prayer rallies outside school in support of sexual morality and purity.

The DOS Walkout was an overwhelming success and far exceeded the expectations of the dozens of participating pro-family organizations, such as Concerned Women for America (CWA).

Take the Seattle area's Mount Si High School for instance. Out of 1,410 students, nearly half (638) reportedly walked out of school on DOS with a unified voice saying, "No! We're here to learn. We refuse to be subject to radical homosexual indoctrination at school or anywhere else!"

The Rev. Ken Hutcherson, a former pro-football player, current pro-family champion and pastor of Antioch Bible Church, led the charge in defense of God's moral standard at Mount Si. He organized a prayer rally outside the school -- which his daughter attends -- and was joined by hundreds of parents, children and community members.

This year's DOS Walkout was an amazing triumph for righteousness and is terrific news indeed. But better news is yet to come. God has a wonderful way of taking that which is intended for evil -- such as the upside-down promotion of sexual sin through DOS -- and turning it right-side up for good.

Christians, and others who value light over darkness, are often deeply discouraged to watch, with a feeling of helplessness, as moral gangrene sets in to our nation's cultural fabric. We're overwhelmed as standards of decency and morality seem to rot away around us.

Well, take heart. With kids like those at Mount Si High School -- and elsewhere around the country -- taking such a bold stand for truth, we should all be encouraged. The next generation of leaders is clearly not as completely lost as many believe. We're witnessing a shift in the tide, and I submit that this great nation is ripe for redemption.

Over the next few years, don't be surprised when, as people hear mention of the so-called "Day of Silence," they immediately think, "Oh, yeah, isn't that the day when tens of thousands of freethinking kids come together in defense of that which is good, and stand firm against the promotion of evil?" Don't be surprised when the "Day of Silence" is no longer considered a day which mocks God's standard of sexual morality, but rather, is deemed a day which wholeheartedly glorifies it.

Yes, take heart. God's truth will fill the silent void. His children will take back America for Christ.
</STORYBODY>

<SMALL>_<EDITORSNOTE>Matt Barber is an attorney concentrating in constitutional law and serves as policy director for cultural issues for Concerned Women for America.​_</SMALL>


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## huntmstr (May 6, 2008)

I can agree that DOS, as it is so innocuously called, has no place in the public school system.  It has no more place there than a liberal agenda by a socialist teacher, or educating non-Christian children about the Bible.  I say what's  good for one group is good for all groups. If you want to promote homosexual harmony in the schools, send your gay kid to a gay school.  If you want your children to learn about religion, send them to a faith based school.  However, while religious freedom is a choice, homosexuality is not.

I have a cousin who is gay.  I knew he was gay from about the time he was age 4.  It was obvious to all of us.  He liked girly things.  He played with girls toys rather than the boy toys his parents bought for him.  He was extremely efeminate in all manners.  He had no choice in it, he was born that way.  He is openly gay, but not overbearing about it.  He does not hide that he is gay, but by the same token, he does not try to convert the masses in to becoming gay.  Nor does he live his life by some gay agenda. He is gay and likes other gay men.  He makes no bones about his personality.  He's also a feaking braniac and a very skilled surgeon.  We are two years different in age and I love him as anyone would love their family members. I had a hard time coming to terms with his homosexuality early in life.  I have since grown up and realized he is a person first.  His sexual orientation is part of who he is.  He was born that way just as a I was born to be bald and fat.

I am not homosexual.  I do not associate with homosexuals in my social life.  But I am not affraid of them either.  And I do know quite a few because of work and professional associations. We're not buddies outside of work, but I respect them as people and as professionals in their fields. 

They had no more choice in being gay or lesbian than I did in being born male, hispanic, fat, or from Florida.  So please, quit fooling yourselves that being gay is a choice.  It's not a choice.  No one would choose to be ostracised from society, ridiculed for their sexual proclivity, and belittled for their natural condition, any more than you would want to be called ignorant, backwards or obstinant.  

Stop trying to mold the world into your perfect little ideal of what _should be_ and accept it for what it is. Not everyone is the same.  And calling it a sin doesn't change the fact that they are born like that.  There are a whole group of people in the world that are homosexual.  Just like there are many different races of people in the world.  You don't have to like them or associate with them, but you better accept the fact that they exsist and have as much right to do so under law and in God's eyes.  

God made us all.  He made us different sizes, different colors, different races and religions.  He even made some of us defective in physical ability and mental capacity.  Would you love your child any less if he was born  retarded, blind or deaf?  Would any of you who think homosexuality is a choice disown your own flesh and blood if they were born homosexual?  Answer those questions and then pass judgement on the lesbians and gays.  The premise for the argument that homosexuality is a choice is preposterous and hypocrytical.


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## widowmaker1 (May 6, 2008)

what makes you right and not i....just my OPINION........
      CHOICE....CHOICE...CHOICE


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## huntmstr (May 6, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> what makes you right and not i....just my OPINION........
> CHOICE....CHOICE...CHOICE



That is exactly what makes you wrong and me right in this case... CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE.  

At least in this case, you are choosing to be wrong about something that no one has a choice in  making for themselves.

Was it your choice to be born male?  Or White?  How did you know you liked girls and not boys?  Did you try kissing both and figured you just liked girls better?  Or was it something born in you that pulled you towards girls and away from boys. 

Who chooses to be born a minority?  Who chooses to be born fat?  How about retarded?

You can choose to ACT retarded, but that does not mean you can not function on a normal level.  You can not choose to become what you are not already, without going against all that God has already made you.    

If you were born a man, you could choose to become a woman, but that is not what God made you.

If you are born black, you can choose to have your skin lightened, but that is not what God made you.

If you are born gay, you can choose to live a lie and pretend to like the opposite gender, but that is not how God made you.

If you are born with intellect and reasoning, you can choose to be ignorant and un-educated, but that is not how God made you.

I'm not saying you have to like or associate with homosexuals.  But you can not deny them the same inalienable rights that you and I were born with?  Those rights endowed to them by their Creator, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  

I do not believe in allowing homosexuals to adopt children or to marry one another.  But if they want to live as they were made, who are we to deny them that liberty.  Are you speaking for God now?


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## widowmaker1 (May 8, 2008)

huntmstr said:


> That is exactly what makes you wrong and me right in this case... CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE.
> 
> At least in this case, you are choosing to be wrong about something that no one has a choice in  making for themselves.
> 
> ...



like i said in an earlier post on this thread- i have a gay family member, we get along fine-he agrees with me that the lack of his real father being around much resulted in him being raised by women, resulting in his CHOICE to be gay.he was born with a penis like i was, wich told me --hey according to god im suppose to be with women.
  i don't want to take any ones liberties or happiness away,,, but dont give me this--i was born this way crap


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## Big Texun (May 8, 2008)

widowmaker1 said:


> like i said in an earlier post on this thread- i have a gay family member, we get along fine-he agrees with me that the lack of his real father being around much resulted in him being raised by women, resulting in his CHOICE to be gay.he was born with a penis like i was, wich told me --hey according to god im suppose to be with women.
> i don't want to take any ones liberties or happiness away,,, but dont give me this--i was born this way crap



The TRUTH is, it is really not up to either of you to make this judgment. I don't know if being gay is a choice or not... and I'm glad I don't have to make that call. I'll leave it between God and the person that is living that lifestyle... for WHATEVER reason.

In the meantime, I think He expects us to show "them" the love of Christ.

Just my 2 cents,
Big Tex


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## PWalls (May 8, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> In the meantime, I think He expects us to show "them" the love of Christ.



But, He doesn't expect us to roll over and accept the agenda of that sinful practice and do nothing either.


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## Big Texun (May 8, 2008)

PWalls said:


> But, He doesn't expect us to roll over and accept the agenda of that sinful practice and do nothing either.



I agree. I just urge all to remember that God hates ALL sin. He who is without sin, well, let him cast the first stone.

Big Tex


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## Boudreaux (May 8, 2008)

TTom said:


> Widowmaker the man shall not lie with a man thing,
> You'll find that in the OLD Testament along with all the other jewish Levidican Laws. Lev 18:22.


 
The way you have phrased this seems to indicate that you belive the OLD Testament should be generally ignored.  Is that an accurate assessment?  If not, what is your point in highlighting that is in the OLD Testament?  Is there a verse in the NEW Testament that states that it is ok for man to lie with man?

Public schools should not endorse a movement.  The government should stay out of it.  Can you imagine the uproar if the NRA convinced schools to have a day to celebrate gun ownership in America?  Schools should educate our children on a core education and leave the values to the parents and activism to the activists.


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## Lead Poison (May 8, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> The TRUTH is, it is really not up to either of you to make this judgment. I don't know if being gay is a choice or not... and I'm glad I don't have to make that call. I'll leave it between God and the person that is living that lifestyle... for WHATEVER reason.
> 
> In the meantime, I think He expects us to show "them" the love of Christ.
> 
> ...



Using your logic, pastors have no right to preach on Sunday. 

Not accepting homosexuality is NOT judging. Christians who speak out against sin are no different than a pastor preaching from the pulpit. Christians who witness are trying to help someone turn away from a sin, which is what we are called to do; it's called witnessing. 

Judging is basically telling someone there is no hope for them because of who and what they are doing. Witnessing to a homosexual by telling them what they are doing is sin, is no different than telling some other person living in sin they should stop, ask for forgiveness and turn toward God.


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## Big Texun (May 9, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> Using your logic, pastors have no right to preach on Sunday.



Pastors are, for the most part, preaching to people that are already saved... Christians on the street... are not. Big diff. There's more, read on.



Lead Poison said:


> Not accepting homosexuality is NOT judging. Christians who speak out against sin are no different than a pastor preaching from the pulpit. Christians who witness are trying to help someone turn away from a sin, which is what we are called to do; it's called witnessing.



Your life bears far more meaningful witness than anything you ever say. If you have ever been actively involved in any church, you know that the pastor's life is lived pretty much under a microscope... if you haven't, you'll just have to take my word for it because I have. Anyways, if that "zoomed in view" of the pastor's life sees sin, the pastor, and his message, is rendered essentially useless.  I'll boldly proclaim that most Christians are rightfully described as hypocrites because they openly condemn one sin, while accepting other sins in their own lives.



Lead Poison said:


> Judging is basically telling someone there is no hope for them because of who and what they are doing. Witnessing to a homosexual by telling them what they are doing is sin, is no different than telling some other person living in sin they should stop, ask for forgiveness and turn toward God.



I completely disagree. Witnessing is telling a homosexual that God loves them right where they are. Once they've turned toward God, they will come under conviction to change the things that God wants changed. It is God's place to provide that conviction; not yours or mine. It is the new Christian's place to obedient to His conviction; not the conviction doled out by you or I.

Using your logic, any bible believing church would not allow anyone that smokes cigarettes to place their membership. Smoking is a sin; is it not? Since smoking is a LOT more socially acceptable than homosexuality, we kinda look the other way on that one. Smoking is but ONE example... there are COUNTLESS others. 

Happy Trails,
Big Tex


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## Fishinatdawn (May 9, 2008)

*Sins*

Don't just pick and choose. Buying that scratch-off lottery ticket, drinking a few beers and eating lobster are also "sins."  I beleive in God, and I know He makes things happen for a reason. I am also educated enough to realize things change over time as needs of the world changes. In case some of you haven't realized it yet, the day is about a moment of silence for VICTIMS. People are gay for many reasons, one of the reasons is that they were molested by straight males. The molestation if not properly handled will turn into a growing cycle sometimes, especially if the victim grows up to be straight. Most gay men are not interested in children, but have grown a bond early on with another male, resulting in later feelings. Of course, I think most people realize some were born that way. We all know not everyone who is victimized victimizes either. The bottom line is, you can't change who people are, and there is no shortage of human life due to gay people. No one can make anyone you know gay by being gay. It is more likely to be your average joe straight guy who has the possibility to ruin a child's life. Ever think maybe some are born gay as a form of population control? We are not God and should not be the judges.


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## widowmaker1 (May 9, 2008)

what---drinking a few beers is a sin.....


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## Lead Poison (May 9, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> Pastors are, for the most part, preaching to people that are already saved... Christians on the street... are not. Big diff. There's more, read on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're right about one thing. We do completely disagree on the topic.


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## Big Texun (May 9, 2008)

Lead Poison said:


> You're right about one thing. We do completely disagree on the topic.



I'd ask you to read John 8:3-11. I'll put it below, in case you have a hard time finding it:

3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

   But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

 9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

 11"No one, sir," she said.
      "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Did Jesus first condemn the woman's lifestyle or, did he first show her His love? 

If you still completely disagree with me, I would very much like to understand the basis for your disagreement.

Happy Trails,
Big Tex


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## ambush80 (May 9, 2008)

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


Why will no one touch this?  Can someone try to explain what this means?


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## TTom (May 11, 2008)

GA_Hunter said:


> The way you have phrased this seems to indicate that you belive the OLD Testament should be generally ignored.  Is that an accurate assessment?  If not, what is your point in highlighting that is in the OLD Testament?  Is there a verse in the NEW Testament that states that it is ok for man to lie with man?
> 
> Public schools should not endorse a movement.  The government should stay out of it.  Can you imagine the uproar if the NRA convinced schools to have a day to celebrate gun ownership in America?  Schools should educate our children on a core education and leave the values to the parents and activism to the activists.





My quote of it is for a simple reason, the idea that Levidican Law was cretaed for a reason, fullfillled for a reason, and currently holds no power. My opposition is not to the Old Testament as a whole, Thus I limited it to the Levidican Laws, why you can't make that distinction I'm not sure.
Was not the specific citation of it being Levidican Law sufficiently clear?

If not, let me made it as clear as I possibly can.
Levidican Law, has been fullfilled and as such holds no power over a Christian. If one insists on continueing to use one aspect of Levidican Law, then to not be seen as cherry picking hypocracy they must also hold to the whole of Levidican Law.


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## Boudreaux (May 12, 2008)

TTom said:


> My quote of it is for a simple reason, the idea that Levidican Law was cretaed for a reason, fullfillled for a reason, and currently holds no power. My opposition is not to the Old Testament as a whole, Thus I limited it to the Levidican Laws, why you can't make that distinction I'm not sure.
> Was not the specific citation of it being Levidican Law sufficiently clear?
> 
> If not, let me made it as clear as I possibly can.
> Levidican Law, has been fullfilled and as such holds no power over a Christian. If one insists on continueing to use one aspect of Levidican Law, then to not be seen as cherry picking hypocracy they must also hold to the whole of Levidican Law.


 
So your belief is that it is permissible by God for man to lie with man because Levidican Law has been fullfilled?  That God no longer sees this as a sin?


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## Big Texun (May 12, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> I'd ask you to read John 8:3-11. I'll put it below, in case you have a hard time finding it:
> 
> 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
> 
> ...



Still waiting for an answer?

Big Tex


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## PWalls (May 12, 2008)

Big Texun said:


> Still waiting for an answer?
> 
> Big Tex



Those people wanted to kill her because that was the law. Jesus did not "condemn" her to physical death which is what they wanted to do.

He specifically told her to leave her life of sin. He showed her love, true, but he also in no way showed acceptance of her sin. That is all we are called to do. Pretty straight forward example of love the sinner and hate the sin.

What's your point?


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## dawg2 (May 12, 2008)

Just out of curiosity...why is it OK for a divorced and remarried man to attend or join a "church" but not a gay man?  Just curious....


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## cobbstein (May 12, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Just out of curiosity...why is it OK for a divorced and remarried man to attend or join a "church" but not a gay man?  Just curious....



Because Chuck Norris said so!!!


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## dawg2 (May 12, 2008)

cobbstein said:


> Because Chuck Norris said so!!!



I didn't know he was gay  Guess I'll hav eto break the news to my sons.


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## cobbstein (May 12, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> I didn't know he was gay  Guess I'll hav eto break the news to my sons.



It'lll break their hearts!


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## PWalls (May 12, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> Just out of curiosity...why is it OK for a divorced and remarried man to attend or join a "church" but not a gay man?  Just curious....



Repentence?

Divorce and remarriage is OK under certain conditions. We have hashed that one out before.

A "gay" man or woman can join a church if they repent. We are all sinners prior to and after joining a church. If after they join and they continue in that sin, then the Bible has a formula for dealing with that as well.


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## dawg2 (May 12, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Repentence?
> 
> Divorce and remarriage is OK under certain conditions. We have hashed that one out before.
> 
> A "gay" man or woman can join a church if they repent. We are all sinners prior to and after joining a church. If after they join and they continue in that sin, then the Bible has a formula for dealing with that as well.



OK, let's say those conditions are not "OK."  Does your church have a questionaire for new members and ask the circumstances of their divorce before allowing them to join?  Not defending either position, just asking a question.


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## PWalls (May 12, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> OK, let's say those conditions are not "OK."  Does your church have a questionaire for new members and ask the circumstances of their divorce before allowing them to join?  Not defending either position, just asking a question.



You do not "join" unless you are a Christian. If just new and the Pastor was involved in witnessing, then that is sufficient to demonstrate the repentence through the salvation. There is no "grace" period. If already a Christian, then a transfer of "letter" from another Church signifying Christianity. Or, by rededication/reaffirmation of faith (maybe by re-baptism).


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## dawg2 (May 12, 2008)

PWalls said:


> You do not "join" unless you are a Christian. If just new and the Pastor was involved in witnessing, then that is sufficient to demonstrate the repentence through the salvation. There is no "grace" period. If already a Christian, then a transfer of "letter" from another Church signifying Christianity. Or, by rededication/reaffirmation of faith (maybe by re-baptism).



Fair enough.


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## Big Texun (May 12, 2008)

PWalls said:


> Those people wanted to kill her because that was the law. Jesus did not "condemn" her to physical death which is what they wanted to do.
> 
> He specifically told her to leave her life of sin. He showed her love, true, but he also in no way showed acceptance of her sin. That is all we are called to do. Pretty straight forward example of love the sinner and hate the sin.
> 
> What's your point?



My point, and my question, was really directed to Lead Poison... who seemed to suggest that witnessing is all about helping people turn from sin.

I submit that witnessing is about leading people to Christ. There is, in my view, a very big difference.

I think that Christians, all too often, forget to love first and foremost... and do it sincerely. 

On a personal level, I have to admit that homosexuality repulses me... probably more than just about anybody on these pages. It gives me the weebs.... kinda like seeing a rattlesnake.

However, to God, ALL sin is repulsive. If I seem to have sided with the gay movement in my postings on the topic, it is only because I perceive that many in our ranks are "prioritizing" the sin of homosexuality to be much worse than the plethora of other more socially acceptable sins that are committed in most churches on a seemingly endless basis.

Quite frankly, it makes those of us that do that... seem a bit "pharasee-like."

Big Tex


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## TTom (May 13, 2008)

GA_Hunter said:


> So your belief is that it is permissible by God for man to lie with man because Levidican Law has been fullfilled?  That God no longer sees this as a sin?



AS much a sin as eating pork, having contact with a women during her mensus, and eating catfish. All of which are part of the same body of Levidican Law.


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## PWalls (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> AS much a sin as eating pork, having contact with a women during her mensus, and eating catfish. All of which are part of the same body of Levidican Law.



Your logic assumes that sexual perversions (fornication, homosexuatlity, etc) was not addressed as sin in the New Testament. You are wrong. You are trying to justify that sin instead of realizing what it is, an abomination.


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## TTom (May 13, 2008)

I've addressed the other aspects of my thought process multiple times, addressing thevarious, places people have read into the bible their, and continued to teach the common beliefs on where it says homosexuality is a sin. You're not buying and niether are many here.
As mentioned in the other thread. I see it more as a reflection of the common beliefs being a human error in gathering meaning.
Much like the human error in the Sun revolving around the Earth, that was a Jewish and later Christian belief for 16+ centuries of common thought.

And I'm not trying to justify anything, you might see it as something like that but it is not the fact of the matter. I am allowing for and contending that the common interpritation of homosexuality being a sin is a human error in understanding.


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## PWalls (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> I am allowing for and contending that the common interpritation of homosexuality being a sin is a human error in understanding.



Well, I guess I will allow that your "opinion" is completely wrong and that you are entitled to have it and leave it at that.


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## jmharris23 (May 13, 2008)

So TTom according to your logic, is anything a sin?


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## cobbstein (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> AS much a sin as eating pork, having contact with a women during her mensus, and eating catfish. All of which are part of the same body of Levidican Law.



Are you serious???


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## dawg2 (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> AS much a sin as eating pork, having contact with a women during her mensus, and eating catfish. All of which are part of the same body of Levidican Law.



So do you have a "mensus hut" for your woman?


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## widowmaker1 (May 13, 2008)

i have planted my seed here already guys, now i'll just dust my feet and walk away. [u are arguing with a brick wall-ttom]


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## TTom (May 13, 2008)

PWalls and I have a slightly different conclussion, that I have an opinion that could be right, could be wrong, open to either possibility due to the falable nature of men including me.

Rather than being so sure I have the ONE TRUE WAY figured out, I continue to study with an open mind.

cobbstien plenty serious, but then again the shellfish in your Icon would also be forbidden in Levidican law (poke poke)

dawg2 My possition has been pretty plain that I don't believe homosexuality in and of itself to be sinfull. (thus the mensu hut etc are not forbidden to me) I believe that the conventional wisdom that claims it is is simply man's mistake in comprehension. (Like the conventional wisdom that sent men to jail for telling folks the truth that the Earth revolved around the Sun based on scripture that said the Earth could not be moved.

jmharris As to Sin existing yes I believe it exists and have mentioned several instances that you obviously chose to ignore. Adultery (unfaithfullness to partner, Sex as sport, etc) My contention that the sin read as simple homosexuality, by many is really based on the use of pagan temple prostitutes speaks to my belief in the sin of Idolitry. So the strawman argument fails to impress. Asking if I  hold a possition which I have obviously and repeatedly already spoken to is just silly.

Whatsoever a man does with offense (intent or personal belief that it is wrong) is sin be it listed in a law or not Whatsoever a man does without offense is not sin.
(paraphrase: Romans 14:12 if memory serves me)


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## cobbstein (May 13, 2008)

All i hear is blah blah blah...


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## PWalls (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> PWalls and I have a slightly different conclussion, that I have an opinion that could be right, could be wrong, open to either possibility due to the falable nature of men including me.



Yes, you are basing your opinion on your own fallible nature. I am basing my opinion on Scripture which is infallible as discerned by the Holy Spirit.


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## Vernon Holt (May 13, 2008)

TTom:  Since you continue to refer to the term "levidian law", please, for your own credibility sake learn to spell it correctly.  

The term is used in reference to the _Levitican Law _since it was administered by the Levites, the priestly family which descended from Aaron.

Thank you.


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## jmharris23 (May 13, 2008)

About all I can say here lately is may God have mercy on some of the souls in here


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## dawg2 (May 13, 2008)

Vernon Holt said:


> TTom:  Since you continue to refer to the term "levidian law", please, for your own credibility sake learn to spell it correctly.
> 
> The term is used in reference to the _Levitican Law _since it was administered by the Levites, the priestly family which descended from Aaron.
> 
> Thank you.



Thanks, I wanted to say it, but glad a MOD did


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## shawn mills (May 13, 2008)

I'm all for a homo silence day!!!!!!


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## TTom (May 13, 2008)

No I'm basing it on the fallible nature of man including the church scholars and myself interpreting the infallible scriptures. While it seems you have faith that the church scholars have not interpreted them wrongly in this case. I have on my side the beyond doubt history that man has wrongly interpreted them for centuries (Cite Galleleo, and Copurnicus), in at least one case.


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## PWalls (May 13, 2008)

TTom said:


> While it seems you have faith that the church scholars have not interpreted them wrongly in this case.




I am not relying on any "man" to interpret those Scripture for me.

That is where your problem lies. Not mine.


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## redwards (May 13, 2008)

Seems as though this thread has evolved somewhat, so I would just like to interject a little perspective here.

The original post basically was about school systems allowing students to have a "day of silence" in order to show support, respect, etc. to those who live an alternative lifestyle, right?

Well, what about this...
A university official decides to make a public editorial statement regarding "alternative lifestyles"...
Gay rights and wrongs: another perspective

Another university official (higher ranking) makes a public editorial statement about the lower ranking officials editorial statement...
UT protects gay rights

Then apparently has followed up by firing the lower ranking official...
*Crystal Dixon no longer UT employee*


So, it appears those who choose to live an "alternative lifestyle" are not the only ones who are ostracized in today's society. 

But, we Christians always are the ones who are made out to be so condemning and intolerant! And, actions taken against Christians are largely ignored by mainstream media and others.


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## ambush80 (May 14, 2008)

shawn mills said:


> I'm all for a homo silence day!!!!!!




wow....


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## ambush80 (May 14, 2008)

PWalls said:


> I am not relying on any "man" to interpret those Scripture for me.
> 
> That is where your problem lies. Not mine.



Just out of curiosity,  how many people here think they hear god speaking to them directly, telling them how to interpret scripture?  And, why do y'all disagree so much if y'all are getting "revealed words" from the same source?


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## ambush80 (May 14, 2008)

redwards said:


> But, we Christians always are the ones who are made out to be so condemning and intolerant!





If the shoe fits......


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## shawn mills (May 14, 2008)

ambush80 said:


> wow....



my first response was a "light hearted" attempt at a joke. Probably a little too much... I know what the bible  says regarding homosexuality as well as the wages of all sin. I'm not here to judge anyone for their actions here on earth. Jesus said it best when he said "He who is without sin, cast the first stone".  Everyone will judged in the end, didnt mean to offend by joking...


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## huntmstr (May 14, 2008)

Vernon Holt said:


> TTom:  Since you continue to refer to the term "levidian law", please, for your own credibility sake learn to spell it correctly.
> 
> The term is used in reference to the _Levitican Law _since it was administered by the Levites, the priestly family which descended from Aaron.
> 
> Thank you.






While we're at the misuse of verbage, the correct term for your wife's time of the month is menstrual cycle, not mensus.

Mensus sounds like a head count for all the male persons present, Let's see who's at the meeting tonight.  has anyome taken a mensus of those present?

Or perhaps a feminine hygiene company.  

"Not feeling fresh?  Need that extra _spurt_ to get you through the day ladies?  Try SPRUNT by Mensus.  The only all day feminine hygiene spray you can take anywhere and apply anytime.  SPRUNT, all day freshness in a 4 oz spray can."


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## huntmstr (May 14, 2008)

dawg2 said:


> So do you have a "mensus hut" for your woman?



Shouldn't that be a Mensa Hat, not a mensus hut?

Sorry.  That was very erudite of me....


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## TTom (May 15, 2008)

Sorry if the misspell confused you I'll take the heat on spelling. However menses would be the corrected spelling. It's in every dictionary I have checked so far. So the term is correct the spelling in error.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/menses
http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=54196
http://medical.merriam-webster.com/medical/menses

Spelling has neer been a strong suit for me. Big deal for some folks, If I were writting a report submitted to a client, I'd run a check and correct the errors. Sorry folks but online really just doesn't warrant a spellcheck in my book. If it draws correction I'll happily correct myself like here.


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## jmharris23 (May 15, 2008)

Just FYI.

IMO when someone constantly misspells their words, it tends to make them look less credible. So it's one thing to misspell in the "Around the Campfire" forum. It's another when you come in here to debate and impress everyone with your vast knowledge of Levitican Law and temple prostitutes. 

It's not nearly as impressive if you can't spell it.


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## dawg2 (May 15, 2008)

jmharris23 said:


> Just FYI.
> 
> IMO when someone constantly misspells their words, it tends to make them look less credible. So it's one thing to misspell in the "Around the Campfire" forum. It's another when you come in here to debate and impress everyone with your vast knowledge of Levitican Law and temple prostitutes.
> 
> It's not nearly as impressive if you can't spell it.



I have to agree 100%...


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## huntmstr (May 15, 2008)

jmharris23 said:


> Just FYI.
> 
> IMO when someone constantly misspells their words, it tends to make them look less credible. So it's one thing to misspell in the "Around the Campfire" forum. It's another when you come in here to debate and impress everyone with your vast knowledge of Levitican Law and temple prostitutes.
> 
> It's not nearly as impressive if you can't spell it.



100% correct; couldn't agree with you more.



TTom said:


> Sorry if the misspell confused you I'll take the heat on spelling. However menses would be the corrected spelling. It's in every dictionary I have checked so far. So the term is correct the spelling in error.
> 
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/menses
> http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=54196
> ...




While you are correct that menses (pronounced _men- sees_ and plural of _mensis_ pronounced _men-sus_) is synonymous with menstruation, it is like using the term _cataminia_.  It's much less common and rarely used except by professionals in the fields of gynocology and medical research, or persons who enjoy the use of archaic or antiquated words.  

More common phraseology could have been used, while maintaining a modecum of decorum thereby refraining from upsetting the sensors.  It would have also made your choice of words more clear to those who have no idea what menses means.

In other words, speak plainly and to the point and no one will misunderstand you or accuse you of being ignorant.


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## ambush80 (May 15, 2008)

PWalls said:


> I am not relying on any "man" to interpret those Scripture for me.
> 
> That is where your problem lies. Not mine.



Who interprets scripture for you?


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## ambush80 (May 15, 2008)

huntmstr said:


> More common phraseology could have been used, while maintaining a modecum of decorum thereby refraining from upsetting the sensors.  It would have also made your choice of words more clear to those who have no idea what menses means.
> 
> In other words, speak plainly and to the point and no one will misunderstand you or accuse you of being ignorant.




I knew what he was talking about.  If you don't know what a word is, just look it up.

By the way, you spelled "modicum" wrong.


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## huntmstr (May 15, 2008)

Dude, I think we all knew what he was talking about.  I was being facetious, hence the big smiley.  And yes, I did spell modicum incorrectly. Please forgive.


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