# SC proposes to tighten flounder limits



## lampern (Feb 23, 2021)

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/bills/3957.htm

SC is the latest state to restrict their flounder harvest limits


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## pottydoc (Feb 23, 2021)

Gotta say, I agreed with Florida reducing our limit.


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## lampern (Feb 23, 2021)

Theres a short season anymore for taking flounder now in NC and anglers are squealing in outrage.

People want to keep flounder


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 24, 2021)

lampern said:


> Theres a short season anymore for taking flounder now in NC and anglers are squealing in outrage.
> 
> People want to keep flounder


Do you ever fish?

Or do you just constantly worry about what others do?

We don’t care what NC does. I have plenty of Flounder in my freezer. I don’t know a single person “squealing”...

Just one person. You. How many saltwater fish in GA have you caught? Do you even have a current saltwater license for GA?


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## Fletch_W (Feb 24, 2021)

Although I live in GA, I saltwater fish mainly in SC and I do target flounder. This story affects me, and I thank lampern for posting it.


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## lampern (Feb 24, 2021)

Browning Slayer said:


> Do you ever fish?
> 
> Or do you just constantly worry about what others do?
> 
> ...



Yes I do fish. This is in the saltwater fishing forum, not the Ga coastal forum.

You do realize Georgia has no choice but to change their flounder limits?

_Its going to happen, just a question of when._

Southern flounder been declared overfished and flounder cross state lines.

Georgia is a member of several interstate fishery commissions and compacts.

The days of keeping 12 inch immature flatfish are over.


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## lampern (Feb 24, 2021)

https://sccoastalresources.com/home/2019/12/16/state-of-the-flatfish-flounder-numbers-are-low

http://portal.ncdenr.org/c/document...=32670395&name=DLFE-140092.pdf&p_l_id=1169848



> North Carolina has taken the lead on addressing overfishing, but their actions alone will not ensure the recovery of southern flounder. Because flounder ignore state boundaries, a lasting solution will require similar action in each state across the region.



Every state in the southern flounder range has made or is making changes to the flounder regs except Georgia.

Even Louisiana is going to make changes:

https://www.louisianasportsman.com/...rn-flounder-management-options-to-commission/


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## Redbow (Feb 24, 2021)

NC would do much better with the Flounder and other species of fish if they would stop the netting in the nursery areas. But the NC legislature is not about to address that issue with any favorable outcome.


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 24, 2021)

lampern said:


> The days of keeping 12 inch immature flatfish are over.


Not in my world.

Those 12’ immature flat fish have made many of dinners for me and my family.

When’s the last time you caught a flat fish?

I would be willing to bet my 12 year old has caught more then you in the last 5 years... but folks like you know what’s best..

I’ll be catching them in a couple weeks.

Have you ever shared a fishing pic on this forum?


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## jdgator (Feb 24, 2021)

lampern said:


> https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/bills/3957.htm
> 
> SC is the latest state to restrict their flounder harvest limits



Thanks for sharing this. I’m glad states are taking this seriously


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## lampern (Feb 24, 2021)

> but folks like you know what’s best.



Respectfully, no.

The fisheries managers and biologists know whats best.

And they are requesting state and federal agencies restrict the flounder harvests.

You're upset at the wrong person.


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## Redbow (Feb 25, 2021)

lampern said:


> Theres a short season anymore for taking flounder now in NC and anglers are squealing in outrage.
> 
> People want to keep flounder


I can assure you people are keeping flounder and lots of them. Don't think for one minute that everyone obeys the laws that govern fishing I am sure you know that also. And getting caught by the marine fisheries man is just about nill. In over 18 years of fishing here on the NC coast I have been checked 4 times by law enforcement. I see people keeping undersized fish just about every time the Wife and I go out they know they are very unlikely to get caught. Illegal netting at night by people who live on the waterfront is happening also. My barber was bragging about that a while back with his brother, set the nets at night and don't worry about getting caught. Take them up before daylight. I call that poaching but it will never stop. People will be people no matter where you live.


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## lampern (Feb 26, 2021)

https://www.postandcourier.com/news...cle_2294bdb0-4472-11eb-9fab-5775388d9fb7.html


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## pottydoc (Feb 26, 2021)

lampern said:


> Respectfully, no.
> 
> The fisheries managers and biologists know whats best.
> 
> ...


Gotta majorly disagree with fisheries managers and biologists knowing what’s best. Does ARS ring a bell for you? I do think flounder need stricter limits, but don’t trust what any of the fishery guys say. They might know what is best, but what they say is what they’re told to say by their employers.


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## lampern (Feb 26, 2021)

Regardless with flounder the science and data shows changes are needed.

Georgia will eventually be dragged along whether the state wants to or not, just like with bluefish.

If the fishery commissions got liberal on ARS limits they’d be cleaned out in no time like they were before

Longer season in Atlantic federal waters? Sure


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## jdgator (Feb 26, 2021)

pottydoc said:


> Gotta majorly disagree with fisheries managers and biologists knowing what’s best. Does ARS ring a bell for you? I do think flounder need stricter limits, but don’t trust what any of the fishery guys say. They might know what is best, but what they say is what they’re told to say by their employers.




That is true. Fisheries council is owned by the restaurant industry. If they want snapper or flounder they will get it.


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## pottydoc (Feb 26, 2021)

lampern said:


> Regardless with flounder the science and data shows changes are needed.
> 
> Georgia will eventually be dragged along whether the state wants to or not, just like with bluefish.
> 
> ...


Uh no, they wouldn’t. There are too many places where you can’t get a bait to the bottom without refs eating it. I promise there’s way more of them than there is gags or red grouper, but both have seasons much longer than the 40 days in the GOM, and 3-5 days in the Atlantic. There is absolutely no reason we couldn’t have longer seasons and a reasonable bag limit (one is not reasonable). Neither NOAA or the Gulf Council has any evidence that ARS are endangered.


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## lampern (Feb 26, 2021)

I disagree. I think the limits need to remain 1-2 fish per person until the data shows you can keep your 10 snapper limit of ARS.

A longer season in the Atlantic? Absolutely


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## Browning Slayer (Feb 27, 2021)

lampern said:


> Respectfully, no.
> 
> The fisheries managers and biologists know whats best.
> 
> ...



Upset at the wrong person? No. Again, I ask. how many flounder do you catch and/or fish for a year?


lampern said:


> I disagree. I think the limits need to remain 1-2 fish per person until the data shows you can keep your 10 snapper limit of ARS.
> 
> A longer season in the Atlantic? Absolutely



A picture, fishing report or ANYTHING would be nice from you.

All you do is stir the pot from the deer hunting forum to the fishing forum. And yet you never post a fishing pic or a deer hunting pic.

You don't hunt in GA or anywhere! but harass the DNR like you actually hunt here. Same thing with fishing. You post all kinds of garbage against our state but you are nothing more then a non resident. You contact our DNR like you live here. Why don't you tell them you are a non resident?

EVERY single argument of your ends with "I stayed at a "Holiday Inn Express" and now an expert.

We don't need your help nor want you help. Focus on the state you live in. The one you actually fish in. Quit trying to change things in our state which you NEVER participate in. And 2 to 3 trips a year makes you nothing more then a "guest"...


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## lampern (Feb 27, 2021)

I really don't care what Georgia does with flounder.

I'm just pointing out flounder have been declared overfished from NC-FL and states are making regulation changes because the stock crosses state lines.


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## pottydoc (Feb 27, 2021)

lampern said:


> I disagree. I think the limits need to remain 1-2 fish per person until the data shows you can keep your 10 snapper limit of ARS.
> 
> A longer season in the Atlantic? Absolutely


Can you come up with any data to back up
that statement? The science being “used” by fisheries managers are nothing but wild guesses. You obviously don’t bottom fish or dive where there are ARS.


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## lampern (Feb 27, 2021)

Don’t we pay the fishery managers to tell us when we can harvest lots of ARS?

In Georgia state waters you can fish for ARS year around


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## lampern (Mar 1, 2021)

Florida approves changes to flounder limits

https://www.wptv.com/news/protectin...lations-for-flounder-after-population-decline



> Starting March 1, 2021 the following changes will go into effect for flounder:
> 
> Extending ALL Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission(FWC) flounder regulations into federal waters.
> Increasing the minimum size limit from 12 inches to 14 inches total length (recreational and commercial.)
> ...


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## pottydoc (Mar 1, 2021)

lampern said:


> Florida approves changes to flounder limits
> 
> https://www.wptv.com/news/protectin...lations-for-flounder-after-population-decline


Old news. They came out with that several months ago. Went into affect today. You notice that the commercials don’t have any closed season, and they added a by catch limit that didn’t exist before, and allows commercials to still keep by catch during the closed season. While I believe we need the lower bag limit,  and a larger minimum size, it was still business as usual for the commercial guys.


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## lampern (Mar 1, 2021)

Yes went into effect today


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 3, 2021)

lampern said:


> Yes went into effect today


You sure do skirt questions. When is the last time you caught a Flounder? When is the last time you caught one in South Carolina? You say numbers are declining but my time on the water says you are wrong.

Just like you are wrong about the ARS.

It’s overharvest by commercial fishing as normal and folks like you and the .gov just want to punish us recreational fisherman cause you guys (people that never fish) know what’s best.

You should start calling and harassing them over commercial fishing.


http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/statistics/comstat/floundersou


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## lampern (Mar 3, 2021)

I never said flounder are declining.

The scientists, fisheries biologists and managers are saying they are declining and overfished.


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## Fletch_W (Mar 3, 2021)

This is just ridiculous. 

Rod and Reel recreational fisherman couldn't put a dent in saltwater fish populations if they tried. They could break every rule and keep every fish they ever caught and it would be a drop in the bucket to the populations. What Browning Slayer alluded to above, these "declining numbers" are garbage, the data is garbage. These biologists have mathematically sound models, but their data samples are so small as to be statistically worthless. It would be like me interviewing my culdesac and 4 families voted republican so therefore the whole country must be republican. 

The government experts say YOU can't go catch a red snapper. But the commercial guy can go out there with his electric reels and bring in 100 of them, and you can go buy some at Kroger. But you can't go catch it yourself. It's total garbage policy. 

The government says YOU can't go catch that 11 inch flounder. If you want to eat an 11 inch flounder, you have to go buy it from Kroger where it came from a commercial fisherman (likely shrimp boat bycatch) who was allowed to keep 1000 of them. But don't you dare go catch it yourself. It's total garbage policy. 

It's arrogance on the part of a lot of fishermen too, the fishermen who try to target flounder in this example, and they try and try, don't have any luck, and they are too arrogant to think they aren't doing it right, they just assume it's a population problem. Meanwhile a local who knows the spots, tides, weather, baits, techniques, has no problem bringing home his limit. The arrogant failed fishermen can't accept the fact he needs to change what he's doing. He wants the government to change what everyone else is doing. And then these government open-forum input events they put on, it's all the frustrated fishermen that show up in support of new limits, and then the government runs the line "our best source of data is the community of local fishermen and we praise them". Garbage data.

That point applied to redfish for me when I lived in SC. I was very good at catching redfish. But I was horrible at catching trout and can't catch a flounder to save my life. When I'd complain about population I was met with 'I caught my limit of trout/flounder this morning" and when I'd see someone complain about "ain't no redfish" then I'd return the favor. In particular, when I lived there, the big debate was the redfish slot limit. People constantly complained they could only catch small ones or oversized ones, they just couldn't catch any keepers, and they were all mad. They thought the population was in big trouble because you didn't have any of those "teenaged" fish to replace the older dying population, yada yada. But in fact, those mid-sized fish simply hang out in different places than the little ones or the big ones. People fishing in the wrong spots. Arrogance and garbage data drives this crap. 

For clarity- I'm talking saltwater. This opinion doesn't apply to landlocked bodies of water that absolutely can get fished out without some management.


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## lampern (Mar 3, 2021)

The other issue is fish stocks cross state lines 

So feds can step in and regulate


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## Fletch_W (Mar 4, 2021)

Not without lawsuits. And GA coast being uniquely undeveloped compared to the neighors, it would be a great case for GA


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## doomtrpr_z71 (Mar 4, 2021)

So how are they overfished in the south atlantic but not the mid-atlantic since fish cross state lines, which by the way the  south atlantic fisheries council doesnt even have a stock assessment for flounder... But look at that, Sc says georgia is minor in it's harvest


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## lampern (Mar 4, 2021)

Mid Atlantic flounder regulations:

Virginia: 16 1/2 inches min, 4 per person

New Jersey: Open and closed seasons. Limit is 3, size limit varies between 16-18"

Maryland: limit 4, 16.5 inches minimum size

Delaware: limit 4, 16.5 inches minimum size

New York summer flounder: open and closed season, limit 4, 19 inch minimum size



So Mid Atlantic states have restrictive regs on flounder also, even more so than the South Atlantic states.

All higher size limits allowing flounder to mature and spawn


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## asc (Mar 6, 2021)

jdgator said:


> That is true. Fisheries council is owned by the restaurant industry. If they want snapper or flounder they will get it.


no, not really, you just spouting that same old garbage..


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## asc (Mar 6, 2021)

doomtrpr_z71 said:


> So how are they overfished in the south atlantic but not the mid-atlantic since fish cross state lines, which by the way the  south atlantic fisheries council doesnt even have a stock assessment for flounder...View attachment 1070136 But look at that, Sc says georgia is minor in it's harvest
> 
> View attachment 1070137


you wrong for florida and possibly more..

https://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/flounder/


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## doomtrpr_z71 (Mar 6, 2021)

asc said:


> you wrong for florida and possibly more..
> 
> https://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/flounder/


By all means, show me the data for the stock assessment for florida to disprove me


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## Fletch_W (Mar 7, 2021)

How many shrimp boats per mile of coast in the mid Atlantic? I will hang up and listen.


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## lampern (Mar 7, 2021)

At least for Georgia:



> (1) Georgia manages southern and summer flounder jointly under an aggregate bag to regulate daily limits. Changing regulations to be southern flounder specific would require anglers to differentiate species, requiring an additional educational component to management.
> (2) Based on the 2019 coastwide assessment which was conducted by North Carolina, Georgia accounts for only 3% of coastwide landings.
> (3) Georgia does not have a commercial fishery targeting flounder and the use of gillnets has been prohibited in state waters since the 1950s.
> (4) The sounds have been closed to commercial shrimp trawling since the late 1980s which has reduced the amount of bycatch in these important nursery areas for a number species, including flounder.
> (5) Southern flounder are not one of the top species targeted by anglers fishing in Georgia.



Source- GA DNR

According to the DNR flounder fishing isn't big in GA like the Carolinas or Florida.

If you trust the data and surveys


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## asc (Mar 13, 2021)

wrong as far as regs for florida, your posted regs are outdated and florida has changed..

for the good IMO.


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## pottydoc (Mar 14, 2021)

Who is wrong? Several of us posted the new regs that went into effect 3-1-21. The limit is 5 per person, size limit of at least 14”. Closed season October-November. Except for the commercial by catch. They get to keep killing fish.


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## lampern (Mar 14, 2021)

Update: South Carolina is on the verge of going to a 16-20 inch keep range slot for flounder with one fish in excess of 20 inches allowed per day.

Bill is on the move.

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/prever/3957_20210311.htm


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## asc (Mar 15, 2021)

was aimed at D as his intial post was wrong on Fl. regs.

the 50 fish was to address shrimp boat bycatch, if you were at the least bit informed you would understand this.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 15, 2021)

lampern said:


> Update: South Carolina is on the verge of going to a 16-20 inch keep range slot for flounder with one fish in excess of 20 inches allowed per day.
> 
> Bill is on the move.
> 
> https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/prever/3957_20210311.htm


Yep. Just got back from 4 days on the coast. You are right. We need a new flounder reg. Just don't have the discussion I had with a flounder bow fishing guide at Fish Camp on Saturday Night.


But hey... you guys that NEVER fish for these fish sure do like to push your regs on recreational fisherman...

Do me a Favor. Push a Reg on Goliath Grouper. I had multiple game fish stripped from my line over one fish on one wreck on Saturday. Maybe we should put a sign on that wreck. No Goliath Grouper allowed...

The BIGGEST Threat to recreational fisherman are folks that don't fish, folks that THINK they know what's best and COMMERCIAL fisherman.


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## lampern (Mar 15, 2021)

Goliath grouper in Georgia or elsewhere?


Edit:

I'm not pushing for changes. The biologists (everywhere but Georgia) are

I just find size limits on flounder ridiculous if they don't actually do anything.


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## doomtrpr_z71 (Mar 15, 2021)

asc said:


> was aimed at D as his intial post was wrong on Fl. regs.
> 
> the 50 fish was to address shrimp boat bycatch, if you were at the least bit informed you would understand this.


The post had absolutely nothing to do with regs, if that's what you got out of that chart you need to look at it again. The prior regs just happened to be on the power point slide.


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## lampern (Mar 20, 2021)

https://www.carolinasportsman.com/f...arolinas-flounder-regulations-are-on-the-way/


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 25, 2021)

I love me some 12 inch Flounder...


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 25, 2021)

Got to love that 70% commercial catch... god forbid I catch fish and feed my family with our catch...


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## asc (Mar 30, 2021)

what 70%, not in Florida..


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## asc (Mar 30, 2021)

backpeddle much?


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## lampern (Mar 30, 2021)

Don't bother going to SC.

The bill increasing the size limit on flounder to 16 inches is moving towards being law.


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## Ray357 (Mar 30, 2021)

lampern said:


> https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/bills/3957.htm
> 
> SC is the latest state to restrict their flounder harvest limits


Well, well. More Gubmit meddelin.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 31, 2021)

asc said:


> what 70%, not in Florida..


Guess you didn't read the article..



> One point of contention brought up by Coastal Conservation Association-NC is the commercial/recreational split of the harvest being set at 70/30.


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## Browning Slayer (Mar 31, 2021)

asc said:


> what 70%, not in Florida..


Nope. Not in Florida. Commercial Flounder fishing in Florida was UNLIMITED! Now they have a 150 fish per day per vessel. And the season closure doesn't stop them from fishing.


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## asc (Mar 31, 2021)

slayer why don't you look up catch data for florida.

get back to me when you are done..lol


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## lampern (Apr 28, 2021)

Looks like SC will lower the limit to 5 per day, increase the minimum size limit to 16 inches and increase saltwater fishing license fees to fund a flounder stocking program.


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## lampern (May 14, 2021)

Louisiana hears update on declining southern flounder

https://www.louisianasportsman.com/...update-on-problems-with-the-flounder-fishery/


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## lampern (Jul 24, 2021)

Louisana study on southern  flounder reg changes

https://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/asset...021/southern_flounder_mgmt_scenarios_2-21.pdf


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## lampern (Mar 15, 2022)

Louisiana changing regulations

https://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/...l-and-recreational-closed-season-for-flounder


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## lampern (Apr 5, 2022)

https://www.dnr.sc.gov/news/2021/nov/nov23-flounder.php

SC flounder stocking program


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## NCHillbilly (Apr 5, 2022)

lampern said:


> Looks like SC will lower the limit to 5 per day, increase the minimum size limit to 16 inches and increase saltwater fishing license fees to fund a flounder stocking program.


Which effectively ends recreational flounder fishing for a good while. It was already hard enough to catch legal keepers in the area of SC I fish when the size limit was 15."


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## lampern (May 27, 2022)

Approved NC flounder regs:



> The commission also gave final approval to the Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan Amendment 3. The amendment contains the following measures:
> 
> Annual harvest quotas for the commercial fisheries divided by gear categories and by harvest areas.
> Optional commercial trip limits.
> ...


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