# Tim Tebow



## rjcruiser (Jan 13, 2012)

There's been a ton of talk of Tim Tebow...God's grace and divine power being placed upon the Denver Bronco's and how Tim's success is due to God.

Lots of different thoughts...lots of articles written.

Thought I'd post this article here...and the link.  It is written by a very good friend of mine.

http://thecripplegate.com/tebow-time-10-thoughts-a-cloud-of-dust/

Tebow Time: 10 Thoughts and a Cloud of Dust 
Even though I didn’t grow up in Colorado, I have been a Denver Broncos fan for as long as I can remember. It’s a love I inherited from my father, and one I hope to pass on to my own kids.

I remember cheering for the Broncos when they lost the Super Bowl in 1987 (to the Giants); another Super Bowl in 1988 (to the Redskins); and yet another in 1990 (to the 49ers). They finally pulled off back-to-back Superbowl wins in 1997–98. But after those final two seasons with John Elway, the Broncos slipped into the oblivion of mediocrity.

Until this year … when unexpectedly, the last place Broncos went on a dramatic run to win their division, led by second-year quarterback Tim Tebow. As a Broncos’ fan, I’ve been thrilled to see Denver start winning. I have been cheering for “Team Tebow” all along the way (even though I’m often not able to watch the games).

Just this last weekend, the entire nation was mesmerized as the Broncos’ quarterback threw a game-winning touchdown pass in the first 11 seconds of overtime. Even some of the biggest Tebow detractors were impressed. (The victory was even sweeter for me because several of my close friends are Pittsburgh Steeler fans.)

But the Tebow phenomenon has grown larger than football.

As an outspoken Christian, Tim Tebow has sparked a much bigger discussion in the American media about faith, sports, and the relationship between the two. The debate has so polarized the country that there seems to be no middle ground left. Express even the mildest appreciation for Denver’s quarterback, and you’re labeled a “Tebow-lover” by his detractors. Offer but the most measured criticism, and his supporters will categorically denounce you as a “hater.”
So here’s my attempt to do the impossible: stake out some middle ground.

The “Tim Tebow phenomenon” has garnered so much media buzz — especially this week when it almost broke Twitter — that I think it warrants a closer look from a Christian point of view. Obviously, a lot has been written about Tebow, mostly focused on his unconventional style of play and the media splash his short career has generated.

But as believers, what are we supposed to think about the cultural phenomenon that centers around this young quarterback? At the risk of offending someone (and possibly everyone), here are ten thoughts in answer to that question.

Five Reasons I Like Tim Tebow:

1. For His Christian Earnestness. I should start by making it clear that I like Tim Tebow as a person, even though I don’t know him personally. From all I can tell, his Christian testimony is genuine. I believe he is absolutely sincere in professing his love for the Lord — and I applaud that sincerity without reservation.

In a November 22, 2010 interview with ESPN’s Skip Bayless, Tebow said this about his Christian testimony:

[M]y relationship with Jesus Christ is … the most important thing in my life. So any time I get an opportunity to tell Him that I love Him or [get] an opportunity to shout Him out on national TV I’m going to take that opportunity. So I look at it as a relationship that I have with Him, that I want to give Him the honor and glory any time I have the opportunity. And then, right after I give Him the honor and glory, I always try to give my teammates the honor and glory. And that’s how it works, because Christ comes first in my life, and then my family, and then my teammates.

2. For His Well-Rounded Perspective. In interviews with the secular media, Tebow has repeatedly noted that there are more important things in life than playing football. That may sound obvious, but it’s good to hear, especially from a professional athlete. In the same interview cited above, Tebow explained:

I know that no matter what happens on the football field, win or lose, that God is in control and He has a plan for my life. And I think the greatest thing that gives me perspective is that I know that no matter what happens on the football field, that’s not what defines my life. That’s not what defines Tim Tebow as a person. But what it does give me, is it gives me a platform and an opportunity to try to be a great role model for this next generation. … At the end of the day, if all we’re doing is winning and losing football games and scoring touchdowns, then we really haven’t done a lot with our lives.

3. For His Off-the-Field Activities. Tim exemplifies a disciplined work ethic, a heart of compassion for those in need, and a zeal for missions work. All of those are noble pursuits. In a February 22, 2011 interview with the St. Augustine Record, Tim talked about the foundation he started to help needy children.

My No. 1 heart is with orphans. The foundation supports 600 orphans in different places around the world. That’s what I want to do for a long time and make it bigger. I want to support kids that not a lot of people believe in. Give them an opportunity to do good in school, play sports and get scholarships.

4. For His Clear Pro-Life Message. It is pretty amazing to consider that Tim’s mother — who was told by doctors that she should have an abortion — instead gave birth to a son who is now leading a professional football team into the playoffs. According to the Flordia Times-Union:

Because they believed the baby would not survive, doctors recommended an abortion so that Pam Tebow’s life would not be risked. … She refused the abortion because of her faith; she prayed that she and her husband would have a healthy son.

The Lord wonderfully answered her prayer.

5. For the Conversations He Sparks. Finally, Tim’s testimony has given believers everywhere additional opportunities to talk about the gospel with their unsaved friends, family members and co-workers. Starting a conversation about eternal things is now as easy as asking, “So, did you see the football game last week?” I’m glad for those kind of opportunities, and I hope people are making the most of them.

As those five points demonstrate, I appreciate Tim Tebow for many reasons (beyond his winning season with the Denver Broncos). But I also have some concerns about the larger cultural phenomenon surrounding him.

I call it “Tebow-Mania.”

Five Concerns I Have about Tebow-Mania

By “Tebow-Mania” I’m referring to the pop-culture hype that has been stirred up largely by the American media. While I certainly don’t fault Tim Tebow for all (or even most) of the media buzz, I do wonder if perhaps he could do more to correct some of the following misperceptions that I fear are a growing part of Tebow-Mania.

1. The Perception That God Gives Tebow Special Help to Win. The media has turned Tebow-Mania into the NFL’s version of the Prosperity Gospel—making it sound as if spiritual blessing and divine favor come in the form of touchdown passes, division titles, and postseason play. Tebow-Mania has turned Denver’s QB into “God’s Quarterback,” and the Broncos into Heaven’s favorite team. (They are, after all, a mile closer to Heaven in Denver.)

But what about the players on the other side of the ball — the ones who lose the game, including Christians on the other team? Is God not helping them? What about other professing Christian quarterbacks in the NFL (such as Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers)? Some of them have had success on the field this year, others not so much. Maybe most importantly, what about the games that the Broncos have lost with Tebow under center? Was God’s power insufficient in those contests? Obviously not.

Because of Tebow’s unexpected success, non-Christians have understandably taken notice. But, like the unbelieving crowds in Jesus’ day, their superficial interest in spiritual things will fade as soon as the “miracles” cease. The reality is that crediting God for specific touchdown scores and football wins can actually become an obstacle for the gospel when a team starts to lose. (It can also lead to taking well-known Bible verses out of context.)

Insofar as Tebow-Mania is responsible for this misperception, I think it is doing more harm than good.

2. The Perception That Tebow’s Statistics Have Supernatural Significance. This last week, I have repeatedly cringed to see the hoopla made about Tebow’s 316 passing yards — as if it were a divine pointer to John 3:16. Don’t get me wrong, John 3:16 is a marvelous verse. The more attention that is drawn to it, the better.

But, fellow Christian, please don’t apply the mystical techniques of misguided numerologists (like the Bible code folks) to Tim Tebow’s stats column. It is bad hermeneutics on every level.

As ESPN’s D. J. Gallo sarcastically quipped:

Yes, even a coincidental stat has become evidence of Tebow’s heavenly favor. And 316 yards is specifically a reference to John 3:16, of course, not any of the 3:16s in the other 66 books of the Bible, such as Leviticus 3:16. … Nope. Totally John 3:16.

Gallo was trying to be funny. But in all seriousness, he made a valid point.

3. The Perception That “Tebowing” Is a Good Thing. I think it’s wonderful that Tebow is committed to public prayer. But I cringe over the fact that his iconic prayer position is now the object of mockery and scorn from the watching world.

At best, “tebowing” has become Denver’s version of Pittsburgh’s “terrible towel” or Green Bay’s cheese-wedge hats. At worst, it has spawned a blasphemous cult following on the part of fans who are more interested in imitating a celebrity-quarterback’s prayer posture than they are in actually addressing God in heartfelt petition. That may sound harsh, but I personally think the “Tebowing” craze is an absolute travesty that turns prayer into a joke and greatly dishonors the Lord.

Having said that, is it Tim’s fault that non-Christians mock his prayer position? No.

But could he do more to put a stop to it? I think he could.

Even something as simple as temporarily using a different prayer posture before games (like standing or sitting) would probably put an end to what’s quickly become a sacrilegious fad.

4. The Perception That Christianity Needs Celebrities to Be Relevant. When it comes to Tebow-Mania, I wonder if evangelicalism is once again falling into the trap of “celebrity Christianity.” It feels great to have an evangelical Christian at the height of athletic popularity in our nation. It feels even better when he wins; because — in some small way — it feels as though evangelicalism is winning through him.

Epidemic in the American evangelical psyche is the idea that celebrity status is essential to reaching our society for the sake of the kingdom. We can be tempted to think that the more superstars we have on our side (whether from sports or politics or Hollywood), the better equipped we will be to advance God’s work — as though cultural popularity were the key to effective gospel proclamation.

Again, I don’t lay the blame for this celebrity-mindset at Tim Tebow’s feet. His celebrity status has been thrust upon him by the media. Moreover, I applaud his desire to use the platform he’s been given to exalt Christ.

However, insofar as Tebow-Mania contributes to evangelicalism’s infatuation with the cult of celebrity or the myth of influence, I do not believe it is helpful.

5. The Perception That Christianity Consists of Clichés. Walk into just about any Christian bookstore and you’ll quickly see that popular American evangelicalism loves clichés: pithy little slogans of feel-good spirituality. They are printed on t-shirts, bumper stickers, and motivational posters. They litter the pages of bestselling Christian books and are permanently etched into trinkets like key-chains and money clips. The roadside marquis of the average evangelical church contains new editions of these short little sayings every week — from messages like “Need a Faith Lift?” to “C H _ _ C H. What’s Missing? U R.”

I fear Tebow-Mania highlights this sappy side of mainstream evangelicalism more than it showcases the arresting truth of the biblical gospel. When discussing the Tebow phenomenon, media outlets often talk about faith in a cheesy “just-believe-in-yourself-and-make-your-dreams-come-true” kind of way. Numerous pundits have suggested that the Broncos’ sudden success should be made into a movie. One article joked that, if it were a screen play, the Tebow story would be too sentimental even for Disney.

To be fair, my concern in this final point again has much more to do with popular evangelicalism as a whole than with Tim Tebow as an individual. (As I noted earlier, I believe Tim to be a young man of great personal integrity and sincerity.) Nonetheless, the phenomenon that is Tebow-Mania has cast the public spotlight on American evangelicalism; and mainstream evangelicalism is often more wide than it is deep.

So those are my ten thoughts. I’m sure the cloud of dust will come in the comments section below.

As you can see, most of my concerns have less to do with Tim Tebow as an individual, and more to do with the larger media-driven craze that has exploded around him. (I have tried to affirm Tim Tebow, the person, while also wanting to think carefully about Tim Tebow, the cultural phenomenon.) On a personal level, I wish God’s best for Tim’s future  — both as a professional football player and as a devout Christian man in his early twenties.

As a Denver Broncos’ football fan, I hope he wins the Super Bowl. More importantly, as an evangelical Christian, I am thankful for his personal testimony and integrity.

At the same time, I cannot embrace everything that popular culture has come to associate with Tebow-Mania. And I sometimes wonder if perhaps Tim himself could do more to offset some of the negative by-products that come from all the media hype.

Does articulating my concerns make me a “hater”? I certainly hope not.

But if it does, rest assured that this hater will be heartily cheering for Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos when they face the New England Patriots on Saturday.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2012)

Tebow is in a tough spot.  The media is going to be watching every move he makes.  Hopefully, his Christian character will stand up to the task.

He's going to always have detractors, that's just the world we live in.  He should probably just ignore it all because the more he tries to defend his faith through the microphone the more detractors he'll attract.

But he surely is getting some attention isn't he?  That's good.
God bless him.


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## stringmusic (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks for posting RJ, enjoyed the article.

Oh and Gooooooooo Tebow!


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## rjcruiser (Jan 13, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Tebow is in a tough spot.  The media is going to be watching every move he makes.  Hopefully, his Christian character will stand up to the task.
> 
> He's going to always have detractors, that's just the world we live in.  He should probably just ignore it all because the more he tries to defend his faith through the microphone the more detractors he'll attract.
> 
> ...



I agree with you Ronnie



stringmusic said:


> Thanks for posting RJ, enjoyed the article.
> 
> Oh and Gooooooooo Tebow!





I enjoyed the article as well...but didn't necessarily agree with it 100%.  I have to say, I thought the direction or link between Tim Tebow and Tebowmania was maybe too strong in the article.

What I fear is that some on the conservative Christian blogs are targeting Tim based on their perception of his theology/life.  This perception is not based upon their actual knowledge of Tebow, but rather the 30 second blurbs they see on Sportscenter or ESPNews.  After reading Tebow's autobiography this week, I feel that I have a much better understanding of his faith, his mission and his actions.  I too was a bit of a skeptic, but after reading his book, I realize that I was looking at him based on my limited knowledge of him.  Getting to know him better through his book changed a lot of my misconceived notions about him.

I do think that the Lord is blessing Tebow....with both wins and losses.  I do think that it is more than chance that he had 316 yards of passing against the Steelers...after all, God knows all things and predestines all things to occur right?  I'm not saying that there are hidden meanings in all numbers, but I do know it was a tool used for people to search scripture as it caused so much buzz.

Like you said String...goooo Tebowwwwwwww


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## WTM45 (Jan 13, 2012)

There has not been this much attention paid to a white bronco since OJ Simpson.


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## RNC (Jan 13, 2012)

WTM45 said:


> There has not been this much attention paid to a white bronco since OJ Simpson.


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## BANDERSNATCH (Jan 13, 2012)

I prophecy that the Broncos will lose with Tebow as the quarterback some time in the future.    

reminds me of what I told me son when he got upset the first time he ever struck out playing baseball.    I told him "get used to it, because it will happen A LOT more"   Even the best baseball players fail 7 out of 10 trips to the plate     No one in their right mind can expect the Broncos to win every time Tebow is under center.   

Personally, I think he has proven himself enough.   He has confounded the wise...


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## JB0704 (Jan 13, 2012)

BANDERSNATCH said:


> reminds me of what I told me son when he got upset the first time he ever struck out playing baseball.    I told him "get used to it, because it will happen A LOT more"   Even the best baseball players fail 7 out of 10 trips to the plate   ...



Great baseball wisdom, I use that with my boy as well.



BANDERSNATCH said:


> No one in their right mind can expect the Broncos to win every time Tebow is under center.
> 
> Personally, I think he has proven himself enough.   He has confounded the wise...



I don't know if God has anything much to do with football, but I have enjoyed watching the kid win.  I did not like him at all when he was in college (I'm a Bama fan), but after hearing him get trashed in the press for a couple of years I started rooting for him as the under dog.


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## formula1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Re:*

I hope you guys take the time to look at Tim behind the scenes a little more and this article is a great example.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7455943/believing-tim-tebow


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## shaftinfection (Jan 13, 2012)

I think hes a good kid and a good role model for kids. You just give it your all and the good LORD will do the rest. And thats coming from a GA. BULLDOG fan. Go TEBOW


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## Ronnie T (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I hope you guys take the time to look at Tim behind the scenes a little more and this article is a great example.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7455943/believing-tim-tebow



That's an eye opening article.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 13, 2012)

There are so many kids that think it is uncool to be a Christian, as well as many adults. I believe God put Tebow in the position to be a good witness because He(God) knew that he(TT) had what it took to be a great witness...and Tim is not ashamed...and God backs him up....316 yards...alrighty then. Here's your sign.

I've read quite a bit about Tebow and I don't believe that's it's football that God is interest in, it's the position that Tebow is in to witness and God placed him there.....Glory be to our God!!!

He does a lot behind the scene to help and encourage people who have been dealt a bad deal in life. Like that kid he is going to see before the big game tomorrow. 

From what I understand he's a missionary kid, too. 

Use me Lord, use me!!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 13, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Tebow is in a tough spot.  The media is going to be watching every move he makes.  Hopefully, his Christian character will stand up to the task.
> 
> He's going to always have detractors, that's just the world we live in.  He should probably just ignore it all because the more he tries to defend his faith through the microphone the more detractors he'll attract.
> 
> ...



He's standing on solid ground and has God as his defense.
Launch out into the deep!


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## rjcruiser (Jan 13, 2012)

formula1 said:


> I hope you guys take the time to look at Tim behind the scenes a little more and this article is a great example.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7455943/believing-tim-tebow



formula1...I agree with you.

and again, I think the writer of the article above....along with a few others that I run into on the conservative Christian blogosphere, have failed to do their homework on Tebow before writing about him.



I'll say it again....read his book.  It is very very encouraging.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 13, 2012)

My opinion of him is the same as ever.  Not good.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 13, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> My opinion of him is the same as ever.  Not good.





that is probably a good thing.  if you have a bad opinion of someone, means they're probably on the straight and narrow.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 13, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> My opinion of him is the same as ever.  Not good.



Why?
I'm not into football at all, except maybe a little bit of NC State and that's only cause my girls are into it. I don't watch it.

Just wondering why your opinion of him is not good?


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## jason4445 (Jan 13, 2012)

I greatly admire Tebow and his talent and his ability is his own doing.  I don't think God has much to do with it and I surely hope that with all that is going on in the world my God has something else to do than decide who is going to win a silly football game.


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## TimB (Jan 13, 2012)

I like the fact that Tebow is stirring so much conversation and providing so many opportunities for Christian sports fans to witness that they wouldn't ordinarily have. 

 Tebow has made it clear that he is not praying to win but simply for God to help him do the best job he can do in life and on the field. 

 He has shown extraordinary faith in putting himself and his faith on the line for all to see and I think God honors that. I don't think God cares about football or about the Broncos as a team per se but he does care about his name and the name of his son and how it is presented and I believe he will show his mighty works in many ways through Tim and possibly through the Broncos. 

 Doesn't mean necessarily they'll go to the Super Bowl or even win their next game but whatever happens God will be in it somewhere. 

 As to the author of the above piece's concerns about the media and how they're blowing things out of perspective and about people mocking "The Tebow", I don't worry about that stuff. Tebow can handle it and so can God, he's been mocked before. 

 I've heard some sports announcers I never thought would have a positive thing to say about Tebow have to backtrack and admit he has "something" special going on.  Others of course are not so kind but who cares? God is getting the glory.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Jan 14, 2012)

jason4445 said:


> I greatly admire Tebow and his talent and his ability is his own doing.  I don't think God has much to do with it and I surely hope that with all that is going on in the world my God has something else to do than decide who is going to win a silly football game.



Seriously? That's all you got out of the article and links here within?


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## polkhunt (Jan 14, 2012)

I think God has more important stuff to do than worry be concerned about Tebow winning a game but Tebow not hiding the fact he is a Christian is a good thing. I don't know the man so I can't say if he is a good role model or not. He may be a terrible person at home I no idea and neither does anyone else.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 14, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> My opinion of him is the same as ever.  Not good.



We're all certainly shocked to hear that?


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 14, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> that is probably a good thing.  if you have a bad opinion of someone, means they're probably on the straight and narrow.



Yeah because you know what an immoral, evil person I am.  Maybe if I was a Christian I could be more respectable.  Wonder if I could be like Jimmy Swaggart or Eric Rudolph?


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 14, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Why?
> I'm not into football at all, except maybe a little bit of NC State and that's only cause my girls are into it. I don't watch it.
> 
> Just wondering why your opinion of him is not good?



Mtnwoman I'm feeling generous and have decided to indulge you.  First, I'm a Georgia fan so TT and I got off on the wrong foot from the get-go.  Now that doesn't mean it's irrevocable...I have a lot of respect for Danny Wuerffel and the good works for which he is responsible.  But Danny wasn't an emotional infant who cried every time bad things happened on the football field.  Bad things happen for me at work, I don't cry about it.  DW didn't answer interviewers with religiosity every 4th word either.  Just football.  I'm happy for the guy but I'm sick of hearing about him and having to endure every detail of his life on every tv and radio channel.  

I would post a motivational picture of him crying that was very popular a few years ago, but I'm apparently no longer allowed to insert jpeg's for some reason.


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## WTM45 (Jan 14, 2012)

Genuflecting in the batters box, kneeling on the sidelines, praying on the field, crotch grabbing, chest pounding, pointing at the sky, dancing and the like are nothing to me but the actions of a "look at me" self absorbed athlete.
One action is no worse than another.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 14, 2012)

I do believe that God blesses those who revere and honor him, I do, but football, God does not care who wins. If that were the case, instead of practice, they should have a prayer meeting. Then the winner would be the one who has the most praying fans. I'm sorry. Edit- I should clarify that my response has nothing to do with Tim T, I'm sure he is a great guy with a great faith.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> I do believe that God blesses those who revere and honor him, I do, but football, God does not care who wins. If that were the case, instead of practice, they should have a prayer meeting. Then the winner would be the one who has the most praying fans. I'm sorry. Edit- I should clarify that my response has nothing to do with Tim T, I'm sure he is a great guy with a great faith.



I don't think God cares about football and neither do I. But I am delighted to hear about Tim Tebow and his witnessing and I'm sure God put him in a place for all to hear and that is the reason for it....all for the glory of God.  It is encouragement for those who look up to football players, and most kids have their super heros to look up to. I'm happy they are hearing the word of God since they are sitting in the front of the tv for hours watching football and probably not even going to church in fear of missing a play.

I think it also impresses on kids who think it's uncool to be a good guy, that it's ok and a good thing to be a good guy.

God will use whoever He chooses to, in whatever way He wants to, even if it confounds the 'wise'. And I think it's awesome even though i've never even watched him play, I have been drawn to all the other good things that Tim Tebow does for people, and am glad to see a good guy for a change influencing our young'uns.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

TimB said:


> I like the fact that Tebow is stirring so much conversation and providing so many opportunities for Christian sports fans to witness that they wouldn't ordinarily have.
> 
> Tebow has made it clear that he is not praying to win but simply for God to help him do the best job he can do in life and on the field.
> 
> ...



Amen!!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

jason4445 said:


> I greatly admire Tebow and his talent and his ability is his own doing.  I don't think God has much to do with it and I surely hope that with all that is going on in the world my God has something else to do than decide who is going to win a silly football game.



I can agree with one thing, football games are silly...

But God knows millions of silly people are watching the games and so He uses whoever He chooses to get in a Word here and there. Perhaps church is a better place to be or at nursing homes with the sick, but since most guys I know do watch these silly games, then maybe they'll get a clue.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Mtnwoman I'm feeling generous and have decided to indulge you.  First, I'm a Georgia fan so TT and I got off on the wrong foot from the get-go.  Now that doesn't mean it's irrevocable...I have a lot of respect for Danny Wuerffel and the good works for which he is responsible.  But Danny wasn't an emotional infant who cried every time bad things happened on the football field.  Bad things happen for me at work, I don't cry about it.  DW didn't answer interviewers with religiosity every 4th word either.  Just football.  I'm happy for the guy but I'm sick of hearing about him and having to endure every detail of his life on every tv and radio channel.
> 
> I would post a motivational picture of him crying that was very popular a few years ago, but I'm apparently no longer allowed to insert jpeg's for some reason.



Gee I'm so surprised you'd feel that way.... 
Who's Danny Wuerffel? never heard of him....guess cause I'm not into football. So obviously TT is reaching out beyond the boundaries of a game, because I have heard about him....sorta proves the point, doesn't it?


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 14, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> I don't think God cares about football and neither do I. But I am delighted to hear about Tim Tebow and his witnessing and I'm sure God put him in a place for all to hear and that is the reason for it....all for the glory of God.  It is encouragement for those who look up to football players, and most kids have their super heros to look up to. I'm happy they are hearing the word of God since they are sitting in the front of the tv for hours watching football and probably not even going to church in fear of missing a play.
> 
> I think it also impresses on kids who think it's uncool to be a good guy, that it's ok and a good thing to be a good guy.
> 
> God will use whoever He chooses to, in whatever way He wants to, even if it confounds the 'wise'. And I think it's awesome even though i've never even watched him play, I have been drawn to all the other good things that Tim Tebow does for people, and am glad to see a good guy for a change influencing our young'uns.


A good influence indeed


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## olcowman (Jan 14, 2012)

If you think God is exerting his influence into Tebow's on field performances... flip the channel over to your local CBS station right now and check out the score... if God indeed does have anything to do with the outcome of fooball games, then he obviously put his money on the Pats this week?

On a more serious note, I for the life of me just cannot see how anyone can hate on Tebow... the man, not the ball player. This is the kind of kid that you'd want your own son to turn out to be... no doubt, a role model possessing morals and character that far exceed any pro-athlete that has come along in decades... perhaps ever? You may hate his throwing motion, you may cringe every time he scrambles out of the pocket, and his wobbly passes may be giving you nightmares... but if you seriously have problems with the public displays of his relationship with Christ or question the sincerity of his humanitarian efforts... you've got some issues then. Serious issues... I really feel sorry for anyone who fails to recognize and appreciate the positive impact of this young, Christain man currently in the spotlight. It is heartlifting and a source of celebration for us who have sat silently by as thug after thug has made the sports headlines for years. From the standpoint of a christain... well it's nice to see God has got himself such a high profile pitchman now!


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

olcowman said:


> If you think God is exerting his influence into Tebow's on field performances... flip the channel over to your local CBS station right now and check out the score... if God indeed does have anything to do with the outcome of fooball games, then he obviously put his money on the Pats this week?
> 
> On a more serious note, I for the life of me just cannot see how anyone can hate on Tebow... the man, not the ball player. This is the kind of kid that you'd want your own son to turn out to be... no doubt, a role model possessing morals and character that far exceed any pro-athlete that has come along in decades... perhaps ever? You may hate his throwing motion, you may cringe every time he scrambles out of the pocket, and his wobbly passes may be giving you nightmares... but if you seriously have problems with the public displays of his relationship with Christ or question the sincerity of his humanitarian efforts... you've got some issues then. Serious issues... I really feel sorry for anyone who fails to recognize and appreciate the positive impact of this young, Christain man currently in the spotlight. It is heartlifting and a source of celebration for us who have sat silently by as thug after thug has made the sports headlines for years. From the standpoint of a christain... well it's nice to see God has got himself such a high profile pitchman now!



Amen!! Great post!!
I agree has nothin' at all to do about a win in a game!!


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 14, 2012)

olcowman said:


> a role model possessing morals and character that far exceed any pro-athlete that has come along in decades... perhaps ever?



How did you measure this exactly?  You seem pretty sure of yourself with this bold statement.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 14, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Gee I'm so surprised you'd feel that way....
> Who's Danny Wuerffel? never heard of him....guess cause I'm not into football. So obviously TT is reaching out beyond the boundaries of a game, because I have heard about him....sorta proves the point, doesn't it?



Not really.  The media are just obsessing over him and he is seriously overexposed.  I provided a link that gives you all the info you'd ever want on DW.  I guess you didn't notice it.  He's like TT but without the lisp and he never cried.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Not really.  The media are just obsessing over him and he is seriously overexposed.  I provided a link that gives you all the info you'd ever want on DW.  I guess you didn't notice it.  He's like TT but without the lisp and he never cried.



So what's the deal about crying....Jesus wept, ya know? Without the lisp?...gees...that's sad that you even bring that up. I bet he got bullied by boys like you when he was young. I know my daughter did....I don't think highly of a person who finds that important about someones character....
I'm not interested in reading about run of the mill heros in football, if they don't have the guts to stand up to what they believe then, oh well, I'm not interested in what they do on the field....as I'm not interested in just the game.
If they don't have anything to say that might touch the hearts of people when they have the chance on tv...then 
whatever, carry on with the game....that's what it's about to them.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 14, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> How did you measure this exactly?  You seem pretty sure of yourself with this bold statement.



I measure it by.....I never remember or even notice other players....for me to notice a football player is pretty rare.
We measure it by the measure of faith that God has given him and us.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 14, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> So what's the deal about crying....Jesus wept, ya know? Without the lisp?...gees...that's sad that you even bring that up. I bet he got bullied by boys like you when he was young, like you. I know my daughter did....I don't think highly of a person who finds that important about someones character....


It was a distinction, not a topic for ridicule.  Point being, Tebow and Weurffel are very similar.  Relax.



mtnwoman said:


> I'm not interested in reading about run of the mill heros in football, if they don't have the guts to stand up to what they believe then, oh well, I'm not interested in what they do on the field....as I'm not interested in just the game.
> If they don't have anything to say that might touch the hearts of people when they have the chance on tv...then
> whatever, carry on with the game....that's what it's about to them.



Okay, since you won't go through the trouble....Danny Weurffel is just as fervent a Christian as is Tebow.  He pretty well has devoted his life to charity work in New Orleans.  He lost all his buildings in Hurricane Katrina and came right back.  The only difference, besides the lisp and the lack of crying, is that he didn't constantly harp on Jesus on tv.  It was a private matter and he kept it that way, which I respect very much.

At any rate, I won't be answering your questions in the future.  I was just trying to converse.


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## bullethead (Jan 14, 2012)

olcowman said:


> This is the kind of kid that you'd want your own son to turn out to be... no doubt, a role model possessing morals and character that far exceed any pro-athlete that has come along in decades... perhaps ever?



I have two of them at home right now with all of those qualities, yet they achieved those things without adding in the religious hoopla that seemingly gives bonus points.


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## jmharris23 (Jan 15, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> It was a distinction, not a topic for ridicule.  Point being, Tebow and Weurffel are very similar.  Relax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you this uptight in real life? Just wondering, though I am sure you wont't indulge me to answer my question


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## Mako22 (Jan 15, 2012)

Im raising my boys to worship the Lord in church every Sunday not play football on the Lords day.


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## formula1 (Jan 15, 2012)

*Re:*



Woodsman69 said:


> Im raising my boys to worship the Lord in church every Sunday not play football on the Lords day.



That's a great start, but 1/7 is not enough.  God wants it all!


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## olcowman (Jan 15, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> How did you measure this exactly?  You seem pretty sure of yourself with this bold statement.



Simple... I just can't recall an athlete off the top of my head who spends his off-seasons on missions to Africa to spread the gospel of Christ to AIDS patients, nor one who devotes his personal time both before and after a game to spend some quality time with an individual in need... you know as well as I do that I can go on and on... and on here. Granted that there is and has been some devout christians in pro-sports over the years... the very fact that Tebow is so open about sharing his faith and that the media has often ridiculed his expressions of faith is what makes him so polarizing... along with garnering him a lot of attention. 

You view this attention and his actions in a bad light, I'm just the opposite... it's refreshing, not only for the sport but also for christains as a whole. It's fine and dandy what your boy Danny is doing down in New Orleans, but until you posted it on this board... I don't think too many folks knew it (maybe a couple of other Weurfful obsessers or die hard gator fans?) but you can mention Tebow right about now and folks who have never watched a ball game in their lives recognize the name... whether you agree with his devotion and how he portrays it or not... he's garnering some attention.

I have no idea if you are just a christian that's wound a little tighter than normal or an outright non-believer... but from my viewpoint, Tebow is doing just as instructed by the word of the Lord. God grants us everlasting live and the joy of his love... and I'm pretty sure he ain't told us to 'keep it on the down-low' either... I thinks he's saying spread the message best you can... well that is simply Tebow doing as he was instructed? 



Woodsman69 said:


> Im raising my boys to worship the Lord in church every Sunday not play football on the Lords day.



I'm purty sure some of them Seventh Day Adventists folks can help you out if this gets to be a real problem for ya'll?


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 15, 2012)

olcowman said:


> Simple... *I just can't recall an athlete* off the top of my head who spends his off-seasons on missions to Africa to spread the gospel of Christ to AIDS patients, nor one who devotes his personal time both before and after a game to spend some quality time with an individual in need...



Well let me help you out.  Read up on Manute Bol.  He blew the fortune he earned in the NBA with his charity work in his native Sudan.  Wound up dying as an indigent patient in a hospital.  Like Weurffel, he did so humbly.



olcowman said:


> I don't think too many folks knew it (maybe a couple of other *Weurfful obsessers* or die hard gator fans?)



No need for that.  Please keep it respectful.


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## jmharris23 (Jan 15, 2012)

olcowman said:


> I'm purty sure some of them Seventh Day Adventists folks can help you out if this gets to be a real problem for ya'll?


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## olcowman (Jan 15, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well let me help you out.  Read up on Manute Bol.  He blew the fortune he earned in the NBA with his charity work in his native Sudan.  Wound up dying as an indigent patient in a hospital.  Like Weurffel, he did so humbly.



I just asked my wife what she thought about Manute Bol... she said she hoped they found a cure for it. You just made my point for me... thanks. As far as being humble... if you think Tebow isn't humble please look up the definition of the word and get back to me. Your arguments against Tebow just don't hold water Ham... I'm happy you think so much of an ex-gater QB and that tall fellow who used to play b-ball. They sound like great folks... too bad more people don't know about their faith and contributions to their fellow man... wish they had been more open about their actions and perhaps been even more of a role model for up and coming young athletes? I may be wrong but I think folks are going to be talking about Tim Tebow for a long time...

All I see are positives from his demeanor and displays of faith... I have no idea what you see and feel? Jealously? Spite? Ridicule? That is the angle many in the media have taken... it would be real easy for a pretender or individual seeking unwarranted attention to give in and take the same old path as others, as the life of an NFL thug appears to be quite entertaining. The expectations heaped on him with this attention have to be a tremendous burden? His success or failure would go by much less noticed in the league if he was just another pro-athlete drawing a check. Tebow ain't playing for the cameras, or putting on some show here... this is the real deal here... at least I am 100% convinced.

The media is playing the entire Tebow story out for us... in both a bad and good light it seems. He doesn't run out to the 50 yard line a dancing and waving to get the camera's attention before assuming his 'now famous' prayerful pose. I haven't seen him dragging any cripple kids out on the field following a game hoping to get on the post game show. He don't even have a Tebow touchdown dance!

I see a young man who answers all detractors as honest as he can, a pro-athlete who is 100% willing to both share the credit for wins and accept blame for losses, a christian who has absolutely no reservations in sharing his faith and witnessing for Christ whenever the opportunity presents itself, just as instructed by the Bible. I find this refreshing and a great positive in more ways than I can express in this format... you seem to find it disgusting and in poor taste? You and I must be polar opposites when it comes to values and what we consider as positive influences in today's culture. 



Six million dollar ham said:


> No need for that.  Please keep it respectful.



Okay, I just got caught up in the spirit of your posting following your references to Tebow's lisp and his show of emotions after a loss during his college career. Didn't realize we had to follow different standards when posting than you follow yourself? I'll watch myself from now on...


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 15, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Well let me help you out.  Read up on Manute Bol.  He blew the fortune he earned in the NBA with his charity work in his native Sudan.  Wound up dying as an indigent patient in a hospital.  Like Weurffel, he did so humbly.
> 
> 
> 
> No need for that.  Please keep it respectful.


A sign of a true, motive is when it is done when no one else knows. So much good that we see today is done to make a name for oneself. The bible says, Be careful, not to do your acts of righteous before man, to be seen by them... My point is that it is a thin line seperating the two. Thanks for the info, I learned something today [Manute Bol]


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 15, 2012)

olcowman said:


> I just asked my wife what she thought about Manute Bol... she said she hoped they found a cure for it. You just made my point for me...



So your wife didn't know him.  Not sure how that's relevant to anything.



olcowman said:


> You and I must be polar opposites when it comes to values and what we consider as positive influences in today's culture.



Probably not really.  I just don't believe in your deity.  



olcowman said:


> Okay, I just got caught up in the spirit of your posting following your references to Tebow's lisp and his show of emotions after a loss during his college career. Didn't realize we had to follow different standards when posting than you follow yourself? I'll watch myself from now on...



Actually go back and read further about the lisp where I explained why I mentioned it.  If you think it's okay to cry on national tv because you lost a football game, that's your prerogative. I just don't agree with it.  This may just be one example of the differences in what we consider positive influences though.  No biggie.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 15, 2012)

1gr8bldr said:


> A sign of a true, motive is when it is done when no one else knows. So much good that we see today is done to make a name for oneself. The bible says, Be careful, not to do your acts of righteous before man, to be seen by them... My point is that it is a thin line seperating the two. Thanks for the info, I learned something today [Manute Bol]



You betcha.  Always glad to shine a little light on things.


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## TimB (Jan 15, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> I
> Okay, since you won't go through the trouble....Danny Weurffel is just as fervent a Christian as is Tebow.  He pretty well has devoted his life to charity work in New Orleans.  He lost all his buildings in Hurricane Katrina and came right back.  The only difference, besides the lisp and the lack of crying, is that he didn't constantly harp on Jesus on tv.  It was a private matter and he kept it that way, which I respect very much.



Christians are just as different and varied as any other group of people. Different strokes for different folks  you know?  Tebow just has a very fervant love of the Lord and wants to give him all the glory he can. He draws his strength from his relationship with the Lord kind of like some old biblical characters. 

 You know not all of God's servants danced in the street to celebrate a victory but King David did when they brought the ark of the Lord into the city of David. 



> 2Sa 6:14	 	And David danced before the LORD with all [his] might; and David [was] girded with a linen ephod.



He didn't do it to draw attention to himself he just did it out of joy for what God was doing.  And I don't think Tebow is trying to draw attention to  himself he just happens to have cameras on him whenever he is on the field and he doesn't let that stop him from praising the Lord. 

 DW just has a different way of approaching his walk with the Lord, it's not better or worse than TT's it's just different. 

 As far as the lisp, frankly I've never noticed it. And btw, I'm Georgia Dawg fan myself. Certainly never cared for the Gators all that much but I can certainly appreciate the accomplishments of individuals like TT, and yes DW too. And again they're just different. 

 A lot of people didn't like the antics of "Prime Time" Dion Sanders, I wasn't crazy about them either but I sure liked watching him play especially when he was with the Falcons and Braves. 

 With all the sports figures out there who are getting caught in sex scandals, murders, shootings, violence and drugs frankly I'm happy to have a Tim Tebow out there being a good example for the youth and giving them something decent to look up to.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 16, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> It was a distinction, not a topic for ridicule.  Point being, Tebow and Weurffel are very similar.  Relax.*I was relaxed when I posted and I'm still relaxed.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Peace out.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 16, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> So what's the deal about crying....Jesus wept, ya know? Without the lisp?...gees...that's sad that you even bring that up. I bet he got bullied by boys like you when he was young. I know my daughter did....I don't think highly of a person who finds that important about someones character....
> I'm not interested in reading about run of the mill heros in football, if they don't have the guts to stand up to what they believe then, oh well, I'm not interested in what they do on the field....as I'm not interested in just the game.
> If they don't have anything to say that might touch the hearts of people when they have the chance on tv...then
> whatever, carry on with the game....that's what it's about to them.



I'm sorry Hammy, I can see why this post seems argumentative. I guess I just think God is A number 1 in everything. When I do well at a jewelry party or show, I thank God because He provides for me in something that I love doing, making jewelry....and if I get a chance I will witness, that's always in the forefront of everything I do. I don't use Christianity to seem like a good jewelry maker/seller. I use the jewelry business for a chance to witness, whether I'm teaching jewelry making or using it to make money to live on....I even ask God to send me people to witness, too, even when I go the supermarket...use me Lord, use me.

And if I don't score big at a jewelry show, I'm still thankful to God. He doesn't always provide what we want, but He does provide what we need even when we're losers.....joy and peace in all things.


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## thedeacon (Jan 16, 2012)

I am not much of a football fan but I am a fan of anyone who stands up for what they believe. We could all do more of that but we use the excuse that we don't have the same oppertunity.

I had the oppertunity to meet Tim and his family and I was very impressed. I am a Tim fan and I wish him all the success in the world. We all need his attitude.


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## olcowman (Jan 16, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> So your wife didn't know him.  Not sure how that's relevant to anything.



Well that was kinda the point I wanted to make, she doesn't even know who Joe Montana is, or Jim Brown. ( i know... bless her heart) She doesn't know who Favre played for but she knows he cheated on his wife... she knows that TO is a thug and that Namath used to be a drunk... My point was that the Tebow phenomenom extends well beyond just football fans, and unlike the ones I mentioned, this time it is positive. Well it's a good thing in my opinion.

As far as getting personal, that was just because I've been waiting for years to chime in and be mean to you on this forum... but unfortunately, and this part hurts, I found that I mostly agreed with you? I wasn't going to let this opportunity slip by...


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## mtnwoman (Jan 16, 2012)

olcowman said:


> Well that was kinda the point I wanted to make, she doesn't even know who Joe Montana is, or Jim Brown. ( i know... bless her heart) She doesn't know who Favre played for but she knows he cheated on his wife... she knows that TO is a thug and that Namath used to be a drunk... My point was that the Tebow phenomenom extends well beyond just football fans, and unlike the ones I mentioned, this time it is positive. Well it's a good thing in my opinion.



Amen!! I can totally relate to your wife....and she knows more than I ever did about any of these fellas.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 16, 2012)

olcowman said:


> Well that was kinda the point I wanted to make, she doesn't even know who Joe Montana is, or Jim Brown. ( i know... bless her heart) She doesn't know who Favre played for but she knows he cheated on his wife... *she knows that TO is a thug *and that Namath used to be a drunk... My point was that the Tebow phenomenom extends well beyond just football fans, and unlike the ones I mentioned, this time it is positive. Well it's a good thing in my opinion.



This is a little off topic, but T.O. is a thug?  Gee olcowman, what leads her to that opinion?  Specifics if you don't mind.  What characteristics would make him so well known as a thug to someone who doesn't follow football at all?



olcowman said:


> As far as getting personal, that was just because I've been waiting for years to chime in and be mean to you on this forum... but unfortunately, and this part hurts, I found that I mostly agreed with you? I wasn't going to let this opportunity slip by...



Good for you.  Sleep well tonight knowing you've accomplished something.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 16, 2012)

thedeacon said:


> I am not much of a football fan but I am a fan of anyone who stands up for what they believe.



I appreciate that.  Take care.


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 16, 2012)

jmharris23 said:


> Just wondering, though I am sure you wont't indulge me to answer my question


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## Six million dollar ham (Jan 16, 2012)

TimB said:


> A lot of people didn't like the antics of "Prime Time" Dion Sanders, I wasn't crazy about them either but I sure liked watching him play especially when he was with the Falcons and Braves.



Interesting you bring him up in conversation this way.  Frankly he's one of the more respectable outspoken Christian athletes you'll find out there.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 16, 2012)

Six million dollar ham said:


> Interesting you bring him up in conversation this way.  Frankly he's one of the more respectable outspoken Christian athletes you'll find out there.



Yes, he is. I watch Christian TV sometimes and saw Dion Sanders on several different shows. I really like him a lot, too.  I think he has the ability to draw attention to himself which draws attention to Christ, and  lot of younger males look up to him....I'm happy about that. Plus he plays well, too.

Did you read my other message to you Hammy?


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## Cottontail (Jan 17, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Yes, he is. I watch Christian TV sometimes and saw Dion Sanders on several different shows. I really like him a lot, too.  I think he has the ability to draw attention to himself which draws attention to Christ, and  lot of younger males look up to him....I'm happy about that. Plus he plays well, too.
> 
> Did you read my other message to you Hammy?



Dion does'nt play he's a commentator on the nfl channel ?


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## Israel (Jan 17, 2012)

we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power might be of Christ, not of us.


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## formula1 (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re:*



Israel said:


> we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power might be of Christ, not of us.



A very large Amen is appropriate here!


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## gordon 2 (Jan 17, 2012)

Israel said:


> we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power might be of Christ, not of us.



And also this for many:



"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped each time a man stands up for an ideal or acts to improve the lot of others or strikes out against injustice he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest wall of oppression and resistance." R. Kennedy

And so somewhere between these two poles--a young football player runs his race--the two poles remaining, sentinels, when all our jeering and cheering and he is done.


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## thedeacon (Jan 17, 2012)

Israel said:


> we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power might be of Christ, not of us.



True, True, True!!!!!

Now that is Gospel,
and what a treasure it is. 
I pray that we all consider it a TREASURE
worth fighting for.

God Bless


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## mtnwoman (Jan 17, 2012)

Cottontail said:


> Dion does'nt play he's a commentator on the nfl channel ?



Really? He used to play didn't he? 
I know he doesn't play now. I guess I shoulda said he 'played well', my bad.


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## Cottontail (Jan 17, 2012)

mtnwoman said:


> Really? He used to play didn't he?
> I know he doesn't play now. I guess I shoulda said he 'played well', my bad.



He played football for the falcons and baseball for the braves. He had a touchdown and a homerun in the same day !! He went on to play for diffrent teams. They called him primetime and he loves fishing !!!


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## speedcop (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank the Lord that Tebow follows his faith and not the world. I just hope that if I make it to heaven his mansion aint to far up the hill from mine. Cant wait to chat with the man.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 17, 2012)

Who was it that said  "don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing????? Cameras going into the hospital with him?? Beeee Carefulllllll, not to do your works before men, to be seen by them.....


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