# A Proverb Worth Discussion



## formula1 (Feb 12, 2011)

Proverbs 13:12 
Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

To the question in brings up in me today:

How do you battle through the sickness of heart even though you sense the end of the story?


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## StriperAddict (Feb 12, 2011)

*Thanks for posting this question.*

Brother, if you don't mind me saying so, this is a great question in Christian "recovery".   

The first answer that comes to mind? ... One small step at a time.

My wife and I have been through some serious trials in our life, and I just took the time to discuss this question with her.

We have been through serious "heart-aches" over family issues, loss of work, loss of property and income, and even betrayal.  Some of these journeys have been short, some long.  We don't know how long the trial will last, that is up to God and He has His reasons, but God will make the way out.  

I'm not going to lie and say that in all trials we "get" it. Sometimes the bitterness (sickness of heart) comes in and stops the work of God in our lives.  When we begin to see the true condition of our heart without His understanding and then turn our eyes on Him again, He graciously gives us the inner help we need to endure, a strength we know we need so desperately.

But what we both agree about and have seen with our lives is that the  blessing we have come to know by _going through a heavy trial with God by our side_ has given us a peace, strength and JOY we would not come to know otherwise.  
Because, like the scripture says, the end "desire" fulfilled will be a spring, or "tree" of life.


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## formula1 (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re:*

Beautiful StriperAddict! An absolutely accepted friend, BTW.

This is a subject that many struggle with (as I do today) and no one who is dedicated to Christ is immune from.  I hope it will cause us to reflect and to serve each other by showing each other how we might battle and win, if you will. I want to hear more from others as well.  Your response was spot on and I thank you!

P.S. The space-time continuum has driven me mad at times.


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## Ronnie T (Feb 13, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Proverbs 13:12
> Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
> 
> To the question in brings up in me today:
> ...



I've spent a little time during the past three days visiting over in the atheist/AA forum.  It saddens me miserably to see the the hearts and minds of people who think Christ, His church, and His disciples are fakes, phoney's and and subjects to be laughed at.
It's so disheartening that I'm not sure I'll go over there again.

But even more troubling for me is the fact that there are so many people in the world that have looked the powerful Gospel of Christ in the face, and laughed at it.

They believe their lives are already as fullfilled as anyone's could be.  But in truth, they are disrespecting God Almighty and He will punish them for it.  
It is set in stone that those who will not accept, will be cast down.  And that is troubling me.  But I can't do anything about it.


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## formula1 (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re:*



Ronnie T said:


> And that is troubling me.  But I can't do anything about it.



I understand this Ronnie, more than you know. But two questions:
1) How do you lay down that which is troubling you?
2) Are you so sure that you can't do anything about it? I asked it that way for a purpose, but let me restate that: Are you so sure that God can't use you to do anything about it? Are you sure he hasn't already done so?


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## crackerdave (Feb 13, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Proverbs 13:12
> Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
> 
> To the question in brings up in me today:
> ...


For me,it is often the prayers of my Christian brothers and sisters that sustain me in the really rough times.You know - those times when it seems your own prayers aren't "getting off the ground."


StriperAddict said:


> Brother, if you don't mind me saying so, this is a great question in Christian "recovery".
> 
> The first answer that comes to mind? ... One small step at a time.
> 
> ...


VERY well said,Walt!


formula1 said:


> Beautiful StriperAddict! An absolutely accepted friend, BTW.
> 
> This is a subject that many struggle with (as I do today) and no one who is dedicated to Christ is immune from.  I hope it will cause us to reflect and to serve each other by showing each other how we might battle and win, if you will. I want to hear more from others as well.  Your response was spot on and I thank you!
> 
> P.S. The space-time continuum has driven me mad at times.



Me,too!


Ronnie T said:


> I've spent a little time during the past three days visiting over in the atheist/AA forum.  It saddens me miserably to see the the hearts and minds of people who think Christ, His church, and His disciples are fakes, phoney's and and subjects to be laughed at.
> It's so disheartening that I'm not sure I'll go over there again.
> 
> But even more troubling for me is the fact that there are so many people in the world that have looked the powerful Gospel of Christ in the face, and laughed at it.
> ...


I feel that too,Ronnie. I'm sure Jesus Himself felt it at times - even with His chosen apostles.God help us if we ever become too callous to feel that sadness!


 ormula1 said:


> I understand this Ronnie, more than you know. But two questions:
> 1) How do you lay down that which is troubling you?
> 2) Are you so sure that you can't do anything about it? I asked it that way for a purpose, but let me restate that: Are you so sure that God can't use you to do anything about it? Are you sure he hasn't already done so?



The serenity prayer always rings true for me. As for being sure of God's working in and through me - yes,I have doubts sometimes.But not in _Him_ - just my ability to listen and understand. It makes me feel like this sometimes:


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## Ronnie T (Feb 13, 2011)

formula1 said:


> I understand this Ronnie, more than you know. But two questions:
> 1) How do you lay down that which is troubling you?
> 2) Are you so sure that you can't do anything about it? I asked it that way for a purpose, but let me restate that: Are you so sure that God can't use you to do anything about it? Are you sure he hasn't already done so?



Don't you think that we sometimes have to just lay an issue into God's loving and powerful hands?
There are things that we cannot fix.
There are things that we cannot make right, in a real sense.

These words come to mind:  Rom. 9:21  "does not the potter have a right over the clay".

Paul prayed that a thorn be removed from his life.  But it wasn't.
There are things in this life that are just going to be.  You and I can't change them.  And sometimes we can't save them.
In some ways, it's comforting to know that.  In other ways, its tormenting.
In other words:  "What do I know".


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## formula1 (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re:*



Ronnie T said:


> Don't you think that we sometimes have to just lay an issue into God's loving and powerful hands?



Absolutely and always! That is in fact the point of the discussion. 

I am at the 'comma' but I am headed to the period! But if I stay at the 'comma' I could allow bitterness to creep in. I choose not too. And I encourage others to stand firm in trial until you get there. God is sufficient!

Hebrews 12:15
See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

2 Corinthians 12:9
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Thanks for all the great discussion!


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## gordon 2 (Feb 13, 2011)

formula1 said:


> Proverbs 13:12
> Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
> 
> To the question in brings up in me today:
> ...



The sickness of heart here is it not "depression"? Hope is the opposite of depression or excessive discouragement. To much hope is manic...which is equally a "sickness of heart".

I can only hope LOL that I'm correct and if I am this is what I suggest as a remedy.

One "battles through" by making lemonaid from the lemon. Just as a compressor ( reversed air conditioning) gets hot air out of very cold air so can a person get positives from being discouraged or depressed. One must figure out why one or someone is feeling hopeless and look at it objectively.

For example if one is destined to minister ( which is positive) and is afflicted by doubt or hopelessness( depression) or find they need to repent of a previously held outlook, than it is a chance to grow in one's humanity and understanding and hopefully minister to others similarly affected--- with empathy and understanding and achieve good results.



I have a lot more to say about this but... I might be off track to what is asked. I can only hope that your desire is met. LOL

Generally in this case remember this. Battling is best by twisting the lemons into lemonaids. Excellent lemon twisting mixes :  Jonas and Job.


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## StriperAddict (Feb 13, 2011)

Gordon, I think as each of us comes to a question like this... that there isn't any right or wrong answer.  I think, like a good bible study (or Christ centered Recovery meeting) we will all get truth as we come together as the body of Christ and pour over our hard issues.  This is something you have well done here, and I appreciate your input.  

The 11th chapter of Hebrews comes to mind, so I will also take more time to consider these things and share later. 


Thanks folks for some great thoughts and discussion.  You do realize we won't be done with this thread ...

until we are "home"  !


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## christianhunter (Feb 14, 2011)

I have went through anger,resentment,betrayal,depression,worry,doubt,and just about every other negative feeling.THE LORD is always there.I have found this out so many times in hind site.I have a problem right now in my finances,that seems never ending,even though my pay rate has doubled.Just this past Saturday,I was almost at my wits end.Car trouble again,with no money to repair it.I got to work and just sat there in silence for several minutes.A customer came up that I have gotten to know a little.We started talking about THE LORD.I told him I was having a pity party,and I was angry,depressed,and felt hopeless.All of a sudden,I started sharing with him what Paul had said.My afflictions were minor,and not so bad compared to so many others.There are many on their death beds,homeless,and all other afflictions who would gladly trade places with me.My/our focus should always be on our LORD JESUS.HE carries us through the dark times,and sees us through this trial of life.


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## formula1 (Feb 14, 2011)

*Re:*



gordon 2 said:


> Battling is best by twisting the lemons into lemonaids.



Thanks for your input g2!  I'd call that statement 'hitting the nail on the head'! I even found scriptural reference for it:

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God ALL things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose.

All things...even lemons...our Father knows... and I praise Him this day for it!


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## gtparts (Feb 14, 2011)

Second wind, my friend. When I get a little weary, I look to God first and to my fellow Christian friends second. The words of Paul speak to the matter of perseverance.

Philippians 3 : 1 - 16
 1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

 2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

 3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

 5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

 7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

 9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 


Now, I love the KJ above, but it expresses a simple principle of Christian living, not some deep theological concept that requires great scholarship to understand. So, I offer you the same from the Message. Sometimes I find it comforting when I receive God's Word as spoken by a contemporary.

 1 And that's about it, friends. Be glad in God! I don't mind repeating what I have written in earlier letters, and I hope you don't mind hearing it again. Better safe than sorry—so here goes.

 2-6Steer clear of the barking dogs, those religious busybodies, all bark and no bite. All they're interested in is appearances—knife-happy circumcisers, I call them. The real believers are the ones the Spirit of God leads to work away at this ministry, filling the air with Christ's praise as we do it. We couldn't carry this off by our own efforts, and we know it—even though we can list what many might think are impressive credentials. You know my pedigree: a legitimate birth, circumcised on the eighth day; an Israelite from the elite tribe of Benjamin; a strict and devout adherent to God's law; a fiery defender of the purity of my religion, even to the point of persecuting the church; a meticulous observer of everything set down in God's law Book.

 7-9The very credentials these people are waving around as something special, I'm tearing up and throwing out with the trash—along with everything else I used to take credit for. And why? Because of Christ. Yes, all the things I once thought were so important are gone from my life. Compared to the high privilege of knowing Christ Jesus as my Master, firsthand, everything I once thought I had going for me is insignificant—dog dung. I've dumped it all in the trash so that I could embrace Christ and be embraced by him. I didn't want some petty, inferior brand of righteousness that comes from keeping a list of rules when I could get the robust kind that comes from trusting Christ—God's righteousness.

 10-11I gave up all that inferior stuff so I could know Christ personally, experience his resurrection power, be a partner in his suffering, and go all the way with him to death itself. If there was any way to get in on the resurrection from the dead, I wanted to do it.

 12-14I'm not saying that I have this all together, that I have it made. But I am well on my way, reaching out for Christ, who has so wondrously reached out for me. Friends, don't get me wrong: By no means do I count myself an expert in all of this, but I've got my eye on the goal, where God is beckoning us onward—to Jesus. I'm off and running, and I'm not turning back.

 15-16So let's keep focused on that goal, those of us who want everything God has for us. If any of you have something else in mind, something less than total commitment, God will clear your blurred vision—you'll see it yet! Now that we're on the right track, let's stay on it.

Just stay focused on the goal!


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## mtnwoman (Feb 20, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> I've spent a little time during the past three days visiting over in the atheist/AA forum.  It saddens me miserably to see the the hearts and minds of people who think Christ, His church, and His disciples are fakes, phoney's and and subjects to be laughed at.
> It's so disheartening that I'm not sure I'll go over there again.
> 
> But even more troubling for me is the fact that there are so many people in the world that have looked the powerful Gospel of Christ in the face, and laughed at it.
> ...



They sure spend a lot of time on something they don't believe in. That's why I don't stop at every fortune teller I pass along the broken road cause I ain't got a second to even wonder if they could be right, I know they ain't.... been there done that...ya know? brother/sisterhood confession eh?


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## Ronnie T (Feb 20, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Second wind, my friend. When I get a little weary, I look to God first and to my fellow Christian friends second. The words of Paul speak to the matter of perseverance.
> 
> Philippians 3 : 1 - 16
> 1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
> ...



Good words and scripture GT.


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## formula1 (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re:*

As an added tool to help fight through the trials of life, I offer this scripture, which when put into practice, will yield its fruit in due season.  I am a living witness of its powerful words! God Bless!

Phillipians 4
 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; 6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


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## gtparts (Feb 21, 2011)

Life is a marathon, not a sprint. Settling in to God's pace and strategy He has designed specifically for each of us is key to peace and contentment. You can't run another man's race and finish where God wants you.


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