# Primitive Fire Makin`



## Nicodemus

Before you can sit around the fire, you have to make the fire. This is a hand drill fire set. The wood is the center stalk from a Yucca plant. The short piece with the holes in it is called the hearth board. It is imperative that the hole is cut exactly as shown. The long piece is called the spindle, or drill. The leather is to catch the wood dust that will form into an ember when it reaches around 900 degrees, and what looks like a birdnest is dried roughed up pine straw which is the tinder.


----------



## Nicodemus

Here the spindle is bein` spinned rapidly between my hands. After about 10 seconds smoke is startin` to rise and wood powder from the friction is formin` on the pad.


----------



## Nicodemus

Here is the ember that was made from all this spinnin`. Make sure at this point that the wind doesn`t take it away from , or you`ll have to start over and this was the hardest part of the procedure.


----------



## Nicodemus

Usin` the leather pad, the ember is placed in the tinder, which is called a birdnest.


----------



## Nicodemus

The birdnest is held above your head so smoke won`t get in your eyes and you  won`t set all that hair on fire and teased into a flame.


----------



## Jorge

Nick, that's awesome. You almost make it look easy. I'll have to give it a try.

So you don't use a bow for the friction stick?


----------



## Nicodemus

And here`s your fire. Needless to say, you need to already have your small twigs laid into a pyramid shape with an openin` in one side so you can place the burnin` birdnest under it. Total time from start to finish was about one minute.There`s no magic or mysticism involved in this and anyone can do it with the proper materials and instruction.


----------



## Nicodemus

Jorge, I use a bowdrill sometimes, especially when I`m tired. Usin` the handrill will really wear you out beacuse of the concentation and hard downward pressure you have to put on the drill. You`ll work up a sweat in 20 degree doin` this! With the bowdrill you can have a fire in ten seconds or less and it won`t wear you out makin` it.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg

Awesome instructions Nick!

You should package and sell kits!  

Very good thread!


----------



## Nicodemus

Also when I`m usin` a bowdrill I want my spindle to be no more than 7 inches long. I like my handrill spindle 24 inches long, any longer and it wants to whip around your head and will jump out of the hole in the hearth board. If this happens you lose all the heat and have to start over.


----------



## Nicodemus

Jeff, the good thing about this procedure is that everything involved is probably growin` within a mile of everbody in the South. People even have Yucca plants as ornamentals growin` in their yards. Good idea though, I never even thought about that!


----------



## HuntinTom

Now THAT'S something that's simply amazing to me Nick!  great thread bro...  Give us more....


----------



## Jorge

nicodemus said:
			
		

> ...Total time from start to finish was about one minute...


Wow! I saw a group of idiots on a Survivor show going at if for about an hour and nothing happened.  

Thanks for sharing Nick.


----------



## Al33

*Great thread Nick,*

I would like to give this a try. Do you cut the Yucca when it is green then let it dry? Will you please elaborate regarding making the holes?

Thanks,


----------



## Beehaw

Great thread and photos!  I was reading about this very thing a while back and the article explained that the aborigines (sp?) in Austrailia carry a kit similar to this all the time.  They use a bow that is very small (maybe 6") and can have a roaring fire going in just minutes; although it looks as if they have nothing on you!

I am also curious about the drying of the yucca wood.  What other woods are suitable for this?


----------



## Nicodemus

Al, you can cut them green and dry them or you can get them now while they are dry. If you get em now they might have a few tiny holes in them where the grubs from the moth that has a symbiotic relationship with the Yucca has bored out. It won`t hurt anything. The hole in the hearthboard needs to start out as a small dent and the end of the spindle needs to be a fairly sharp point so it doesn`t jump out as bad. MAKE SURE THAT YOU CUT A SMALL SLOT AT LEAST HALFWAY ACROSS THE HOLE IN THE HEARTHBOARD FROM THE BOTTOM. This is why most folks that try this fail. The slot allows the wood dust to fall right where the most heat is bein` generated. While you are spinnin` the drill watch the smoke and dust and you can actually see the ember form.

While you are spinn`, your hands are goin` to move down the drill, when your hands get close to the bottom, let go with one hand while holdin` the drill with the other, all the while keepin`the drill tip in the hole. Grab the top of the drill with the free hand, then move the other hand up with the other in one smooth motion and continue drillin`. And be gentle with the ember while transferin` it to the birdnest, it`s fragile and will fall apart purty easy. This ain`t no joke here--while doin` this endeaver, don`t forget to breath. You tend to hold your breath while doin` this and you will fall out from exhaustion before you complete the chore if you don`t breath!


----------



## Mechanicaldawg

I bet a dozen Woodyites will have yucca splinters in their hands before the sun goes down!


----------



## Nicodemus

Beehaw, Basswood, Mares` Tail (we call it horseweed), and Yucca are the woods I know work well as spindles. I prefer Yucca as my hearthboard with all these woods. And all grow in Georgia too. No matter what kind of wood you use for a spindle, make sure you scrape it SMOOTH. If not it will tear every callous off of your hands and the blood will run down the spindle and put your ember out before you can stop it. Plus, it hurts.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg

nicodemus said:
			
		

> If not it will tear every callous off of your hands and the blood will run down the spindle and put your ember out before you can stop it. Plus, it hurts.



Sounds like fun!


----------



## Nicodemus

This next series of pics is an easier way, flint and steel fire. Here is my flint and steel kit. It consists of a piece of flint, a steel striker blacksmith-made, charred cotton, a colonial tin box to hold this stuff, and a buckskin pouch for it and the tinder for a birdnest. The tin and steel stiker is a close copy of the one George Washington used.


----------



## Randy

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> Sounds like fun!



Sounds like WORK.  What ever happened to the old fashion cigarett lighter.  One flick and poof fire!

JK, great information.


I know another way to start a fire.  Give a kid a match.  He'll have your recliner buring in no time.  Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## Nicodemus

Here I`m holdin` the flint and char in my left hand gettin` ready to showere sparks on the char.


----------



## Randy

nicodemus said:
			
		

> The tin and steel stiker is a close copy of the one George Washington used.



I thought he was a president?  Surely he had aids to start his fire?


----------



## Nicodemus

Strikin` the steel against the flint and char.


----------



## Nicodemus

Char has caught a spark and is smolderin. This can`t flame up, but will only smolder.


----------



## Nicodemus

Char is placed in birdnest.


----------



## Nicodemus

Makin` fire.


----------



## Randy

And the "char."  What is it and where does it come from?


----------



## Nicodemus

And fire. Total time for this was 7 to 8 seconds, little faster than rubbin` two sticks!


----------



## Nicodemus

Randy, this works when the lighter is lost, out of fuel,  or wet. George Washington was a soldier and scout in the French and Indian War in the 1750s. Everybody carried a flint and steel back then. Your life did depend on it. Char is any scorched material like cotton or rotten wood, all it does is catch the spark.

Woodswalker, Iron pyrites work just as well as any manufactured steels that the blacksmiths were turnin` out, and were used as such back in the later Stone Age.


----------



## Randy

Why couldn't you "shoot" the sparks straight into the birds nest?


----------



## Nicodemus

Another method that was used was to brush the primin` powder out of the pan on your flintlock, plug the flash hole with a feather, put a piece of char cloth in the pan, close the frizzen, and shoot the gun. The shower of sparks would ignite the char for you.


----------



## Nicodemus

Randy, you can do it that way but you have more control over where the sparks go by holdin the works in your hand. It also helps to have callouses for all this, because you will be holdin` that fire for a few seconds.


----------



## Randy

nicodemus said:
			
		

> It also helps to have callouses for all this, because you will be holdin` that fire for a few seconds.



That leaves me out.  I don't do any manual labor so callouses are out of the question.  Don't get me wrong.  This is great and interesting information but I hope I never need it.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg

Nick,

We are going to try to pull together a Spring Cookout and Turkey Calling contest in late Feb or early March. I'm sure everyone would love to see an up close exhibition!


----------



## Nicodemus

Jeff, I would surely enjoy comin` to that and would be glad to bring my toys and play. Early March would be good for me as well. Reckon ya`ll can get Dutch to come too and bring his cookin`gear? I`ll even furnish some of the meat and fixins` for him.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg

That'll be great! We always do eat good and from what I hear Dutch will just add great things to the pantry.

We'll try to set a date later this week so everyone can get it planned!


----------



## Nicodemus

Jeff Young said:
			
		

> I bet a dozen Woodyites will have yucca splinters in their hands before the sun goes down!


   Yea, everybody that does try, how bout postin` a pic of your hands tonight!!


----------



## dutchman

nicodemus said:
			
		

> Jeff, I would surely enjoy comin` to that and would be glad to bring my toys and play. Early March would be good for me as well. Reckon ya`ll can get Dutch to come too and bring his cookin`gear? I`ll even furnish some of the meat and fixins` for him.



Count me in, brother. I'll just need you to start the fire for me.


----------



## Holton

I enjoyed that .    Good pictures too.


----------



## Nicodemus

dutchman said:
			
		

> Count me in, brother. I'll just need you to start the fire for me.



I think I can do that Dutch. I`ll bring my appetite as well!!


----------



## Killdee

Very interesting


----------



## Raven

Great thread Nick, I have always wondered how starting a fire in that fashion was correctly undertaken. Thanks again for the good info., and I can't wait to get my point from you as well.


----------



## dutchman

nicodemus said:
			
		

> I think I can do that Dutch. I`ll bring my appetite as well!!



I got me one of them "drawer pulls" and a little piece of rock, too, Nic. I do need the charred cloth, though. Ain't got around to making that yet.


----------



## CAL

That was a great post Nick and very interesting to say the least.The cook out last spring was awsome as well.Looking forward to another one next spring too Jeff.Need to be thinking about a date so all can plan!


----------



## Nicodemus

Dutch, just holler if you need any char. I got plenty.


----------



## dutchman

nicodemus said:
			
		

> Dutch, just holler if you need any char. I got plenty.



Is there an easier way to make it than the tin can method?


----------



## Nicodemus

Not that I know of. Did you poke a couple of tiny holes in the lid of the can?


----------



## dutchman

nicodemus said:
			
		

> Not that I know of. Did you poke a couple of tiny holes in the lid of the can?



I haven't tried it yet. I guess I was hoping there was an easier way.

How about elaborating on how to prepare the can and how to go about making the char?


----------



## Nicodemus

Get you a large tin snuff can. With an ice pick, job 3 or 4 small
(1\8 inch diameter , give or take) holes in the lid. Cut your cotton cloth ( I like worn out blue jean material) in 1x2 inch squares. Only fill the can half full and throw it in the fire. Watch it closely, in a minute or two it will start smokin`. As soon as it quits smokin` (another minute or two) take the can out of the fire. Leave the top on until the can is cooled down enough to hold in your bare hand. Then check the char. If it has brown places in it, then recap and throw back in the fire for another minute or two. Proper char is uniformly black all over and will tear between your fingers with very little pressure. Give it a try, it`s not hard to do.


----------



## dutchman

Alright. Now I know what kind of can I need. Thanks, Nic.


----------



## Nugefan

very cool .........

can you give us some pointers on making the arrow heads ?

you are a talented man Nick ......


----------



## Nicodemus

Nuge, it`ll be easier for you to watch in person . Pics probably wouldn`t help. I`ll be bringin` my stuff to the Spring Cookout though and doin` some playin` around. If you are there, I`ll be glad to show you some tricks.


----------



## Handgunner

Neat thread, Nick!  Cool pics as well!

In a sure enough pinch, where you didn't have a birdnest, could you pull and handful of that beard off and use it?  

J/K  Thanks for sharin'!


----------



## brandon

Great thread!


----------



## Dub

The gift of the flame.........very cool.  

Thanks for sharing the process.


----------



## Beehaw

QUICK, SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW TO PUT THE FIRE OUT!!!   I didn't think it would be this easy and now the den is on fire!!    

Just kidding.  Great thread!


----------



## 243Savage

Beehaw said:
			
		

> QUICK, SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW TO PUT THE FIRE OUT!!!   I didn't think it would be this easy and now the den is on fire!!
> 
> Just kidding.  Great thread!



You should run very quickly now.  Hairspray is extremely flammable!!!


----------



## Nicodemus

Delton, now that you mention it, I have singed them whiskers more`n once. But these old calloused hands can put out a brushfire!


----------



## deedly

Nic  When you  use a bowdrill to turn the spindle, do you use a nut rock or something like it to steady the top of the spindle?


----------



## Nicodemus

Deedly, right now I have three different type spindle blocks that I use. From left to right, elk antler, deer ankle bone, and hickory block. The ankle bone already has a narural dimple in it. The bow is made from a cow rib. A wooden bow will work fine too. It`s important to keep the spindle shaft short, I prefer a 4 to 5 inch spindle. The hearth board is basswood, and the spindle is yucca. Yucca on yucca works well too. Pay close attention to the notch in the hearthboard, very important that it`s cut like the one shown.


----------



## deedly

Thanks Nic,,  I found a nut rock that I think has been used for nuts and a spindle block as it has one large depression on one side, and flip it over and there is a smaller depression that looks like a spindle hole, or could be for smaller nuts. I'll try to post pics later


----------



## dawg2

I was watching "Survivor Man" this week and he started a fire with the bow method.  Thanks for the info Nic, It's always fun watching that process.  Makes you appreciate the fire even more.


----------



## k_g_b

nicodemus said:


> Get you a large tin snuff can. With an ice pick, job 3 or 4 small
> (1\8 inch diameter , give or take) holes in the lid. Cut your cotton cloth ( I like worn out blue jean material) in 1x2 inch squares. Only fill the can half full and throw it in the fire. Watch it closely, in a minute or two it will start smokin`. As soon as it quits smokin` (another minute or two) take the can out of the fire. Leave the top on until the can is cooled down enough to hold in your bare hand. Then check the char. If it has brown places in it, then recap and throw back in the fire for another minute or two. Proper char is uniformly black all over and will tear between your fingers with very little pressure. Give it a try, it`s not hard to do.



Another way and you most likely have what you need laying around the house. Use aluminum foil instead of the tin. I used gun cleaning patches. Put 20 or so patches in the foil and wrap it up. Flip it over and rewrap with foil( you might not need to do this but it was how I was told). Punch a couple small holes thru the foil to the patches( I used a sewing needle), place in fire or even your grill. Watch the smoke as nicodemus said. If you see flames coming out the holes blow them out, you want them to cook not burn. I had alot of fun trying this and was surprised that it worked the first time for me.

I placed my char cloth in a tin that York mints come in. You can get them at the checkout at most grocery stores. It will also work to make char in. I wasn't worried about being period correct just another trick up my sleeve.


----------



## Branchminnow

Well with the title of the thread I thought ole nic needed someone to teach him how to start a fire??


----------



## Nicodemus

Branch, I still do when tryin` that aggravatin` fire plow method. I ain`t got so much as a wisp of smoke tryin` it that way!


----------



## danmc

nicodemus said:


> No matter what kind of wood you use for a spindle, make sure you scrape it SMOOTH. If not it will tear every callous off of your hands and the blood will run down the spindle and put your ember out before you can stop it. Plus, it hurts.



He speaks the truth here.  Its amazing how quickly you can tear up your hands!


----------



## danmc

nic,

have you had any luck with dog fennel (the E. capillifolium one) as a spindle when making fire with a hand drill?  I tried some a month or two back because it was growing all over the place.  I used a princess tree hearth which proved to be too soft.  I got smoke almost immediately but never made it to a coal in the dust.  I have some yucca and mullein stalks drying in my garage for my next try.  Just as soon as these blisters go away...


----------



## Nicodemus

Dan, I`ve never had any luck with dog fennel either. Mullein, as well as horseweed (Mares Tail), make an excellent spindle.


----------



## Nicodemus

Hugh, the hearthboard can be the sane as the spindle. I probably use yucca-on-yucca more than any of the others combined. 

Sorry for the late reply. Been in the Seminole County swamps since Saturday.


----------



## crackerdave

That's great,Nick - and a great way to teach kids [and some adults!] to be patient and listen.
I saw where y'all are going to be at Chehaw - if I can,I'll be there.


----------



## Woodscrew

Ya,ll got me wanting to try it now but I just can't figger out what this Yucca wood is. Guess I just don't know all my trees and plants that well.


----------



## danmc

woodscrew:  see the picture here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca

When those flowers come off, you're left with a woody stalk up the middle.  Just don't poke your eye out bending over to cut out the stalk.

The leaves have fantastic fibers for rope.  If you take the time to get all the green part off, you can end up with some really nice looking stuff.   I just haven't figured out how to be fast at that though.

-Dan


----------



## Outdoorsnole

this is a great thread.  I'm gonna have to try a few of these.  I might have to make a bow out of a deer antler and give it a try.  I like the way you use primitive materials like the cow rib and the deer ankle bone.


----------



## FERAL ONE

nick, are you gonna bring your firestartin' stuff to the get together ? i have shown ethan using a modern flint and steel with steel wool but this would be great for both of us to learn !!!


----------



## BoxCallWillie

*Very Good Thread Nic*

I have witnessed this fire maken skills 
at severial different pow wows and at the Battle of Dade
re inactment.  But have not ever tried this myself.
Well now my gears are a turnin , but I will try the steel I
believe first and see if I can do that .
Nic  where would a feller get the steel and things needed
to get started ?

I will look at around the internet and see , but if you
can.. point me in the right way I sure would appreciate it.
Thanks for this thread Nic its a good en...
BCW


----------



## GAnaturalist

google it. Try Crazy Crow Trading Post, etc. Most carbon steel should work, and your don't always need charred cloth to get it started, the pile of dust that comes off the fire by friction gizmo will catch a spark, as well as some fungus, and dry white or brown rot wood.

I just collected some huge asian bamboo from Wilson Shoals WMA to use for the fire saw method.


----------



## GAnaturalist

danmc said:


> woodscrew:  see the picture here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca
> 
> When those flowers come off, you're left with a woody stalk up the middle.  Just don't poke your eye out bending over to cut out the stalk.
> 
> The leaves have fantastic fibers for rope.  If you take the time to get all the green part off, you can end up with some really nice looking stuff.   I just haven't figured out how to be fast at that though.
> 
> -Dan



Also yucca flowers are edible, and the root makes real soap, quite easy too.

I have tried several dozen different spindles (for hand drill), and my favorites are wingstem, crownsbeard, primrose, goldenrod. BUT none of them are worth a dooky if they are cut at the wrong time of year. I cut them in October when the seeds are falling off, and let them dry for two weeks. They need to be cut green, yet not have moisture inside them. If cut to early they will fold in on themselves. If cut to late, they have been weakened by internal rot starting at the base. It is all in the time of year that they are cut that makes the difference, and not as much the species, unless you just go way off with dog fennel. 

For bow drill I prefer basswood, willow/cottonwood, then tulip popular. Those woods too are best if cut green and then wait until seasoned. 

The best base board I have ever tried for both is trumpet creeper, period. 

In the winter hickory root bark is usually all that is available for me to make cordage for the bowdrill, other than my frayed shoelaces. 

Once you get better you can practice with wood that is out of season, wood that is bent, or wood that is just plain ugly.


----------



## Daddyboy

OK so I'm just asuring myself here. Yall say a softwood is best for this endeavor not hard wood? Just sorta cofused. Been trying this for a few weeks. Wife & kids think I'm nuts. Web said soft, scout leader said hard and I know they both have made it work. I've had plenty of soke but the online version said to have the cut in the hole a lot smaller. perhaps that were my real problem. Can I get a comment please. I ain't looking forward to sneeking to my neighbors yard to get any yucca.


----------



## GAnaturalist

Jamesotis said:


> OK so I'm just asuring myself here. Yall say a softwood is best for this endeavor not hard wood? Just sorta cofused. Been trying this for a few weeks. Wife & kids think I'm nuts. Web said soft, scout leader said hard and I know they both have made it work. I've had plenty of soke but the online version said to have the cut in the hole a lot smaller. perhaps that were my real problem. Can I get a comment please. I ain't looking forward to sneeking to my neighbors yard to get any yucca.



Soft wood, yes. Only when you become Jeti master do you seek the hardwood. 

I guess your using the bowdrill. The pie cut out should be 1/8 of a pie cut out, and cut it to the center of the circle that has burned out. If you cut to far the head of the spindle will have a nipple effect. If you do not cut far enough, then the spindle head will start to hollow out. 

Try some willow, cut green and let dry for a week, or two. If you don't want to wait, find a branch that is dead on the tree, or died recently. I say willow because you know where they live, and most people can identify them. It is number 2 or 3 for me as far as a favorite in GA. So it works. Try long strokes, pacing, and moderate/good downward pressure. After trying that post a pic of your baseboard and I can tell you what you are doing wrong by looking at the baseboard, but then again you may not have problems later. 

I would cut the willow green and let dry, best to try everything in the most "prime" conditions when you are starting out. 

Looking at someones baseboard is like looking at a track or fingerprint. After doing this for a while you can tell a lot by seeing those "tracks".


----------



## BoxCallWillie

GAnaturalist said:


> google it. Try Crazy Crow Trading Post, etc. Most carbon steel should work, and your don't always need charred cloth to get it started, the pile of dust that comes off the fire by friction gizmo will catch a spark, as well as some fungus, and dry white or brown rot wood.
> 
> I just collected some huge asian bamboo from Wilson Shoals WMA to use for the fire saw method.



Crazy Crow was purty good, alot of things I could use too.
Thanks ...
Here is another one 
www.Trackofthewolf.com


----------



## Daddyboy

Will pine work? Haven't heard it mentioned or missed it. Will it or should I just wait tilI can get out and find something more suitable. I got a couple stips of bamboo, if split can I work it?


----------



## GAnaturalist

Any wood that is dry will work, but some are much more difficult than others.  Even pine will work, but it is difficult and not worth your time right now. The southern pines are probably some of the hardest pine wood in North America. Generally Northern pines are softer. 

We have only one type of Northern pine in Georgia, the white pine (Pinus strobus). It lives in the mountains, unless planted somewhere else. If any pine would work for you, then it would be white pine. It is soft, good grain, just stay away from the knots. BUT all pines have resin, and you have to cut them now, or December, then let dry for a month. 

Start with willow.

Yes, bamboo will work for the fire saw.


----------



## Nicodemus

60Grit said:


> Soooo, softer woods are better???



Yep. Try yucca-on-yucca. It works very well.


----------



## GAnaturalist

Maybe i should have wrote marginal and good in the captions below.


----------



## GAnaturalist

Eastern red cedar is not soft. ahaaaaa, how about willow, it grows literally anywhere theres water in Georgia, sooooo you might not find any, lol. 

collect the bark, good tinder

Man, do my hands look dark in the last pic or what?

Yes, it is green/white, and let to dry. He had already cut the two flat pieces, or found the bamboo recently dead. 

My hand drills look the same way, green, but dry. That should be a rule of thumb for best results.

A fire "plow" is a little different than a fire saw.

I will post some of my pics later, I have to borrow a friends camera


----------



## SWAMPFOX

This is truly fascinating. I really enjoy this kind of stuff. Nick, is there going to be a primitive get-together any time soon in southern Georgia? Thanks.


----------



## FERAL ONE

swampy, check the gathering section. we are planning a get together at priveyes!!!


----------



## danmc

Jamesotis said:


> Will pine work? Haven't heard it mentioned or missed it. Will it or should I just wait tilI can get out and find something more suitable. I got a couple stips of bamboo, if split can I work it?



White pine will.  The others tend to have too much resin.  Of course white pine is only in the N. Ga mountains if you're looking in GA.

-Dan


----------



## danmc

GAnaturalist said:


> Also yucca flowers are edible, and the root makes real soap, quite easy too.



I find the taste fairly mild so that if I were faced with eating a big handful it wouldn't be that bad.  

-Dan


----------



## danmc

*Woohoo*

Here's a picture of a genuine handmade fire!  It is my first successful solo hand drill fire.  I've managed to get 2 started before working with one or two others but this is my first solo one.  The crazy guy in the foreground is me trying to decide if the neighbors will call the police if I do a loud "I made fire" dance in my back yard at midnight...

The spindle was yucca and the hearth was juniper (I think you call it eastern red cedar around here).

Nicodemus, I still haven't had a chance to learn to recognize horseweed/mares tail.  That'll be a goal for some hikes this summer.

-Dan


----------



## schleylures

*when to pick yuca*

they are blooming now give us more insite. on how this is done, how long they last. we would thank you millions.


----------



## Nicodemus

Wendell, one of my yucca plants will be bloomin` any day now. When it does, I`ll post up some pics for you.


----------



## schleylures

*yucca blooming*

I know where there is hundreds.  When do I pull the center steam?   After they bloom? November? When?


----------



## danmc

I've seen lots of yucca blooming around here this week.

The spindle I used for fire making was harvested sometime after the flowers dropped.  I've lost track, but I think I used one I picked up on a hike around thanksgiving time.  Its also possible it was one I picked up a few months earlier.  The thing to watch out for is if you leave it too long before harvesting the stalks, they'll be crumbly.  Maybe from insects?  Maybe just rot?  As near as I can tell, keeping the stalk in my garage for 6+ months left it in pretty good shape.  I'd say leave it alone until all the flowers have dropped and then just cut off the stalk near where it leaves the leaves.  Be careful as you lean down to get your knife in.  You can poke an eye out on those things!

I wouldn't do it until the flowers have all dropped just because I don't see a reason to lose the pretty flowers.

We'll see if Nic has more insight here.  He's been doing this way longer than I have.


----------



## Nicodemus

I`d let the flowers bloom and go to seed first. A couple of weeks after that , go ahead and cut it and let it dry. As sson as its dry apply a little heat to the entire stalk to kill those little bugs that are gonna be in there.


----------



## danmc

Nicodemus said:


> Pay close attention to the notch in the hearthboard, very important that it`s cut like the one shown.



Hi Nic.  I see that your notch is less V shaped and more U shaped.  Do you find the U shape to be better with a bow drill?  Or did it just end up that way after using that notch for a bit?

I've been working on fire by friction each night for the last week or 10 days.  My hands are sore, I have blisters, but have managed to get 2 hand drill fires and 1 bow drill fire going.  I've also had some really frustrating tries that just produced smoke and no coal.  My first bow drill fire went really fast and gave a really solid coal.  My next try was a bust.  

Thanks.
-Dan


----------



## Nicodemus

Dan, that notch is U shaped because I normally use a flint knife to make that notch. I like it better than a v notch because it allows more wood dust and air to get where it needs to be. Give it a try and see how you like it.


----------



## Daddyboy

I gotta bragg now cause I had witnesses, albeit they was my younguns. After finally getting some yucca stalks and making me a shaft about 7 inches and taking about 18 inshes of stalk to make a starter indention with the cutout wedge I began. I used a bow that I'd made before using a length of clothesline and put a small piece of cotton under the hearthboard and then went to spinning. Took about 90 seconds of spinning (seemed a lot longer) and the cotton was smoldering and glowing. Took some pine straw and wraped it up and started blowing. My daughter kept saying it looked like a birds nest. Then it burst into a small fame . I put it out and soaked with water to apease the marital unit and gave several of my best Tim "The Toolman" grunts to the amuzement of my kids only.
But I told her that now I would not be stranded anywhere and wonder how or if I could do it. Rember the family that got lost when they were looking for the christmas tree and were lucky enough to find a drain pipe to holdup in for a few day but had no fire. I know now that if it happened to me I might be confused of my location but darn if I'd be cold for more than a few hours.
Thanks Nic and others for your info and I hope that I never am required to do this to survive but now I know that I CAN!!!!!!!!


----------



## danmc

Nicodemus said:


> Beehaw, Basswood, Mares` Tail (we call it horseweed), and Yucca are the woods I know work well as spindles. I prefer Yucca as my hearthboard with all these woods. And all grow in Georgia too. No matter what kind of wood you use for a spindle, make sure you scrape it SMOOTH. If not it will tear every callous off of your hands and the blood will run down the spindle and put your ember out before you can stop it. Plus, it hurts.



ok, finally figured out that horseweed is that stuff growing between my tomatoes and jerusalem artichokes.  Guess I didn't have to go far!  Now that I know what it is, I see it all over.  I don't see much basswood in places I go.

I'm up to 3 successful hand drill fires and a whole pile of blisters and failed tries.  Smoke is easy, a coal still isn't.  The times it has worked it really hasn't taken long.  I've been experimenting a little with how I cut the notch to see if I can find a sweet spot there.  When I get a little more consistent at home it'll be time for some fire quest hikes to see if I can do it in the woods with stuff I find on the same hike.

-Dan


----------



## slightly grayling

*Thanks*

for posting this Nic.  I just harvested some Yucca and I think this may be my 9 year old's science project this year (friction!).
-SG


----------



## 7 point

Nicodemus said:


> Here the spindle is bein` spinned rapidly between my hands. After about 10 seconds smoke is startin` to rise and wood powder from the friction is formin` on the pad.



I was searching for old threads on friction fire and came across this one how'd you get the holes so nice and round?


----------



## Nicodemus

7 point said:


> How'd you get the holes so nice and round?





Because the spindle is naturally round, and as it spins against the hearthboard, it "drills" the hole in that shape.


----------



## 7 point

Ok so you just get the hole started then the spindle shapes it I got


----------



## Jeff C.

Made a bow drill today Nic. I only had cedar, which I read was ok, but not yucca. 

Anyway, I got plenty of smoke so it was working great, but no fire. I think where I failed was not trying to catch the ember on something like a leather patch. I had the hearth board sittin directly on the tinder at the drill hole.

I'll go at it again in the near future. I will get Fire!

Great thread, btw.


----------



## Nicodemus

Jeff C. said:


> Made a bow drill today Nic. I only had cedar, which I read was ok, but not yucca.
> 
> Anyway, I got plenty of smoke so it was working great, but no fire. I think where I failed was not trying to catch the ember on something like a leather patch. I had the hearth board sittin directly on the tinder at the drill hole.
> 
> I'll go at it again in the near future. I will get Fire!
> 
> Great thread, btw.





Always have something for the coal to form on. Keep at it, I expect to see fire in your hands.


----------



## RBM

I agree with Nic. Always have some kind of coal catch. Its actually better to have the burn hole directly on the tinder like you did so there is no need to transfer the coal. Coals can get lost between a separate coal catch and the bundle. Drop it, knock it, or wind blows it off. But it would be better if there was a catch under the burn hole while sitting on the bundle so the dust has a place to collect and the coal has a place to form. You still eliminate the transfer step while still having a coal catch in the bundle.

Hmm. I've talked about it before in my vids but maybe I better do a video on it.


----------



## Corey J

Ok I tried for 3 hours this evening and all I got was enough smoke to make the neighbors call the fire depot! I'm using a bow drill with red cedar as my drill that I cut behind the house and commercial sold pine wood for my base. (Leftover from when we finished our basement) I planned on doing cedar on cedar but the baseboard wasn't dry enough yet. I think the pine is my problem. Hopefully the cedar baseboard will dry out soon!


----------



## RBM

Corey J said:


> Ok I tried for 3 hours this evening and all I got was enough smoke to make the neighbors call the fire depot! I'm using a bow drill with red cedar as my drill that I cut behind the house and commercial sold pine wood for my base. (Leftover from when we finished our basement) I planned on doing cedar on cedar but the baseboard wasn't dry enough yet. I think the pine is my problem. Hopefully the cedar baseboard will dry out soon!



I hope you don't have any sap in the cedar and I hope you are not using "treated" pine.No No: Either one of those and you are just "spinning" your wheels. 

Use seasoned or dead standing, solid, dry, and sap free cedar. If commercial hardware pine, use the untreated stuff only. For locally grown pine, same as for the cedar above, just seasoned pine. Keep at it, you will get it.


----------



## Jeff C.

Nicodemus said:


> Always have something for the coal to form on. Keep at it, I expect to see fire in your hands.



I will go at it again when my _BAD _shoulder quits hurtin  I had a lot of smoke, just never got a solid ember I reckon. 



RBM said:


> I agree with Nic. Always have some kind of coal catch. Its actually better to have the burn hole directly on the tinder like you did so there is no need to transfer the coal. Coals can get lost between a separate coal catch and the bundle. Drop it, knock it, or wind blows it off. But it would be better if there was a catch under the burn hole while sitting on the bundle so the dust has a place to collect and the coal has a place to form. You still eliminate the transfer step while still having a coal catch in the bundle.
> 
> Hmm. I've talked about it before in my vids but maybe I better do a video on it.



May have been my tinder then. I had some fine Cedar shavings(almost like string) and really roughed and crushed up pine straw. I thought it was a good catch.


----------



## RBM

Yeehaw. Today, actually late this afternoon was the first time I got a coal using Cabbage (Sabal) Palm stems. That stuff has been a real bugger for me. I probably have around three or four sets and filled with burn holes I have been through with that stuff and no telling how many hours put in. I did learn two things or it might not have happened. One, force dry (light pre-spinning at the burn hole to just generate heat for drying) the board and spindle. Two, use the thickest part of the stem for the board because there needs to be enough board to get down far enough for enough friction to build. I think a video might be in the near future.


----------



## RBM

Jeff C. said:


> I will go at it again when my _BAD _shoulder quits hurtin  I had a lot of smoke, just never got a solid ember I reckon.
> 
> 
> 
> May have been my tinder then. I had some fine Cedar shavings(almost like string) and really roughed and crushed up pine straw. I thought it was a good catch.



I use leaves mostly. Ready made coal catches. Just put a leaf under the burn hole while on the tinder bundle. Then all you have to do when you get the coal is turn the leaf over to dump out the coal in the bundle.


----------



## Grey Fox

You guys inspired me.  I came home, improved my set, and made my first bow drill fire.  I've been practicing and have made several since.


----------



## RBM

Grey Fox said:


> You guys inspired me.  I came home, improved my set, and made my first bow drill fire.  I've been practicing and have made several since.



Awesome. Feels great doesn't it? Knowing you don't need any modern fire starters. Keep practicing. Practicing might not make it perfect but it will make it better. More efficient, less effort, less time, more confident, and more consistent. Use different woods to get a feel for different densities. Keep your first set for a keepsake.


----------



## jcinpc

I have always used either my steel and some of my coral or my fire piston. I traded someone years ago for this and it has always worked great . I make a big batch of char cloth at one time using a tin canister and poke 1 small hole in the top, fill it with a cut up cotton t shirt and put it on the fore or the stove and when smoke an then the flame come out I take it off and have plenty to last me


----------



## 7 point

I played with fire today I had A pine hearth board and dog finnel spindle my hearth board hole kept getting deeper should I use a different kind of wood for the hearth board?


----------



## RBM

7 point said:


> I played with fire today I had A pine hearth board and dog finnel spindle my hearth board hole kept getting deeper should I use a different kind of wood for the hearth board?



Might be the pine board. If I don't have the "right" pine (solid, dry, and sap free) I will have problems. If the pine density is off, meaning that the pine has begun to degrade so it becomes a soft solid then I will have problems so if I want to use pine then I will have to get another board that is hard solid. So density can be a problem (the wood may not be optimal or the best) with not just pine but a lot of woods. Sometimes its better for me just to make a new set of the same wood but different density if that makes any sense. If the Dogfennel is too far gone and degraded then that might also be another problem but from what you describe as the hole getting deeper its probably that you just need another pine board that is hard solid. Doesn't sound to me like you have a sap in the wood or moisture problem (still would not rule that out) but I would make sure its dry and sap free. Pine can be tricky. Or yes you can just use a different fire board. Bay wood also works fairly good with Dogfennel, at least it has for me. Willow might work also with Dogfennel. Hope this helps.

Kind of hard to explain what I mean by soft solid and hard solid. In my experience soft solid pine is pine that is solid but the wood pores are noticeable while hard solid pine the wood pores are not as noticeable. Meaning try to pick seasoned pine that has not gone soft.


----------



## 7 point

Robert I will be going out to the woods in the morning I will look for some more wood for my hearth board I will keep you posted how I do with the new wood.


----------



## RBM

7 point said:


> Robert I will be going out to the woods in the morning I will look for some more wood for my hearth board I will keep you posted how I do with the new wood.



Will do. I would be interested in how it works out. With Dogfennel I have done good with Bay wood, Willow, and Grapevine. Probably a lot more kinds of wood that may work with it but I have only gotten coals with those above that I tried. I have tried some that did not work but I don't recall all of them. Funny how I only recall the ones that do work for me but I suppose that is normal.

BTW, I will be away most of tomorrow so I will not be on the web probably until tomorrow evening/night or the next day.


----------

