# Blackhorn 209 Powder



## buttplate (Feb 27, 2010)

Ok, I have checked the retail locations that are anywhere close to me and none of them have any Blackhore. BassPro in Macon had 2 jugs last week but would not transfer to the Atlanta store. Price at BP was $45 or so + tax. The Army Navy store in Stockbridge doesn't have any in stock and doesn't see getting any soon.

Now Cabelas on the, on the other hand, has or had it for $29.99 + $20 Haz Mat fee.

Got an idea, I live in Monroe, would anyone in my area be interested in going in on an order with me from Cabelas and splitting the HazMat fee? This could bring the cost well below what BP is charging and we would have it in hand before BP ever restocks.

This is not for profit. Each person would pay the $29.99 plus their portion of the fee. If you want one jug you would pay one part of the fee. If you want two jugs you would pay two parts of the fee and so on and so on. Just an idea, anyone interested?

I don't think this is against any laws or anything and I would like to shoot some of this stuff soon.


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## buttplate (Feb 27, 2010)

*Price*

Ok, I'm back. I just made the call to Cabelas and they have it in stock. The details are as follows:

1. $29.99 each
2. $20.00 HazMat for the entire order
3. No shipping if order ='s $150. or more
4. I must order 6 to = more than $150
5. If I order 6 the total will be $179.94 + $20 HazMat =$199.94 divided by 6 = $33.33 each
6. There is no sales tax if sent to Georgia.

That is more than $10 below what BP gets for it, when and if they have it in stock!! 

Is anyone interested? I want one so I need five more who are interested.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2010)

buttplate, do a search on here.  someone else was wanting to do the same recently.  maybe yall can get a few folks up


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 28, 2010)

here it is http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=467388&highlight=cabelas


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## buttplate (Feb 28, 2010)

*Blackhorn 209*

Thanks Jim,
I will hit him with a pm to see if he is interested. I thought a bunch of folks would be interested. Guess it is the wrong time of the year.


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## SmokyMtnSmoke (Mar 1, 2010)

Yeap, that was me but Monroe is still a long way from my 'roaming area'.

One thing I didn't notice till later is that the bottle is only 10oz, 284 Grams or 4383grains. If your average load is 100grains then that's only 43 shots per bottle. That's some dang expensive black powder substitute. If my math is wrong here please come and set me straight as it has been a long time since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

Why is is sold in this odd weight? All smokeless powder is sold by the 1lb or 7000grains and averages about $25/lb. i know this is some what apples and oranges but when your use to buying loose powder buy the pound $35+ for 10oz seems extreme no mater how good the stuff is.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 1, 2010)

SmokyMtnSmoke said:


> Yeap, that was me but Monroe is still a long way from my 'roaming area'.
> 
> One thing I didn't notice till later is that the bottle is only 10oz, 284 Grams or 4383grains. If your average load is 100grains then that's only 43 shots per bottle. That's some dang expensive black powder substitute. If my math is wrong here please come and set me straight as it has been a long time since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.
> 
> Why is is sold in this odd weight? All smokeless powder is sold by the 1lb or 7000grains and averages about $25/lb. i know this is some what apples and oranges but when your use to buying loose powder buy the pound $35+ for 10oz seems extreme no mater how good the stuff is.



smokey, after everything to do with the shot is calculated it is a hair more expensive to shoot.  

I definitely dont have a clue why western sells it in 10 oz jugs though???


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## BWCA (Mar 1, 2010)

Because it is the best powder and they know it.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 2, 2010)

BWCA said:


> Because it is the best powder and they know it.



lol well there's that too

in general I dont mind spending a lil extra on it since I love the performance so much


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 2, 2010)

It's convenience. It may or may not b the best. I reckon that's a matter of preference. It is the convenience that ur getting charged for just like when u go to the quick trip and pick up milk u pay more cuz u did not have to drive over to the walmart and stand in line. It is more convenient to buy the 209 powder cuz u do not have to clean after each shot.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 2, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> It is more convenient to buy the 209 powder cuz u do not have to clean after each shot.



AND its faster and its cleaner burning and its more accurate (in my set up and it seems most that try it) and it cleans like a regular rifle.


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 2, 2010)

*do not wanna start a contest on here*

Can u further articulate on the position u r taking? When u say faster r u talking about muzzle velocities?


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 2, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Can u further articulate on the position u r taking? When u say faster r u talking about muzzle velocities?



yep, although I have not chronyd my personal setup, many folks have and it is faster velocity wise than 777.

as far as accuracy...when I changed from 777 to BH209 my groups shrunk from 2-3" to 1" and the powder and primer is all I changed at the time.  I have later changed the sabot as well, but cant honestly say that I have seen a difference since.

now quit using big words like "articulate" you know slow folks like nicodemus use this place right???


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 2, 2010)

*aight den*



Jim Thompson said:


> yep, although I have not chronyd my personal setup, many folks have and it is faster velocity wise than 777.
> 
> as far as accuracy...when I changed from 777 to BH209 my groups shrunk from 2-3" to 1" and the powder and primer is all I changed at the time.  I have later changed the sabot as well, but cant honestly say that I have seen a difference since.
> 
> now quit using big words like "articulate" you know slow folks like nicodemus use this place right???



I don't think Nic is slow. I did not think that u'd think that articulate was such a big word. U say that BH209 develops more muzzle velocity than 777. Does 777 powder develop much more muzzle velocity than the Swiss Black powder? i understand the Swiss will develop more velocity grain for grain than Goex.  I have not seen ballistic charts on the substitute powders. Probably cuz I have not had an interest. I did actually purchase some BH209 to try it out, but I have not had a chance to do so yet.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> I don't think Nic is slow. I did not think that u'd think that articulate was such a big word. U say that BH209 develops more muzzle velocity than 777. Does 777 powder develop much more muzzle velocity than the Swiss Black powder? i understand the Swiss will develop more velocity grain for grain than Goex.  I have not seen ballistic charts on the substitute powders. Probably cuz I have not had an interest. I did actually purchase some BH209 to try it out, but I have not had a chance to do so yet.




if you dont think nico is slow you have yet to meet the old fella....he is real real slow, I'm talking short bus here!  ok so I'm just picking on nic. he and I are good friends and go way back, plus I think he owes me a beer so I cant talk too bad about him 

no idea on swiss BP cause I havent seen claims, either advertised or individual reports from anyone using it.  I personally only compare the BH209 to 777 and pyrodex because thats my only experience.


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 3, 2010)

Jim Thompson said:


> if you dont think nico is slow you have yet to meet the old fella....he is real real slow, I'm talking short bus here!  .




Well, I have met nic, We had breakfast at the Cracker Barrel in maconga. He seems to me to be the kinda guy that is very intellegent and talented. I'd sure want him on my side if the chips were down.


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## SmokyMtnSmoke (Mar 3, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Well, I have met nic, We had breakfast at the Cracker Barrel in maconga. He seems to me to be the kinda guy that is very intellegent and talented. I'd sure want him on my side if the chips were down.



AMEN to that! Nic is THE MAN!

I sent Western Powders and email asking why the 10oz bottle and extraordinarily high cost. If they respond I'll post it here.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

hawgrider1200 said:


> Well, I have met nic, We had breakfast at the Cracker Barrel in maconga. He seems to me to be the kinda guy that is very intellegent and talented. I'd sure want him on my side if the chips were down.





SmokyMtnSmoke said:


> AMEN to that! Nic is THE MAN!
> 
> I sent Western Powders and email asking why the 10oz bottle and extraordinarily high cost. If they respond I'll post it here.




I dont agree with yall about ol nico...fact is I sent him this link just to prove it

folks I am kidding with ya about nico.  he and I are great friends and go wayyyyyy back.  I consider him one of my very few friends...well that is if he would ever buy that beer he keeps promising


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

also concerning the price per shot of BH209...

I am not this technical and would never have broken this down, but here is some calculations from one of my favorite smokepole sites.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9191&highlight=bh209+price+per+shot



> I've been disengaged from Modern Muzzle for a period, but with the purchase today of 2 containers of BH, I'm back in the game. I'm guessing somebody has posted the cost per shot, but cob's corny calculations show the following:
> 
> 10 ounces BH 209 with tax = $32.00
> 110 grains by volume = approx. 80 grains by weight
> ...


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

and this from the same referenced thread 



> 110 grV BH209 = 76 grW tapped, settled, scraped level, on my beam scale. Powder measures can vary up to 5 grV on a 100 grV charge, in my experience. Also as BIGT mentioned, tapping and settling can also add another 1-2 grV.
> 
> So if you averaged BIGT and my weight, you would have 75 grW.
> 
> ...


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

one more calculation from another member there.  once again I am not this technical, I just tend to like shooting it.  if it went away tomorrow I would prolly just go back to shooting 777 and life would go on

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/p...r=asc&highlight=bh209+price+per+shot&start=25


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## Nicodemus (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey!!! I resemble some of them remarks!!! Plus I`m sensitive, and my feelins` get hurt real bad!! Comes from breathin REAL BLACKPOWDER fumes most of my life!!!!!! 

Ya`ll go easy on my old buddy, JT! He don`t mean no harm! This summer, JT you and me!!


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Hey!!! I resemble some of them remarks!!! Plus I`m sensitive, and my feelins` get hurt real bad!! Comes from breathin REAL BLACKPOWDER fumes most of my life!!!!!!
> 
> Ya`ll go easy on my old buddy, JT! He don`t mean no harm! This summer, JT you and me!!




REAL BLACKPOWDER will get you blown up


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## Nicodemus (Mar 3, 2010)

Jim Thompson said:


> REAL BLACKPOWDER will get you blown up



Real quick too!!!  One of these days a stray spark in gonna land in my whiskers, and uh oh!!!


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## buttplate (Mar 4, 2010)

*Blackhorn*

Well I have had no takers on the offer to do the order, HOWEVER, I think I will put in my order this weekend for six jugs in order to get them for $33 or so a jug. I am ready to shoot and want to get my Encore ready for some hogs. 

I saw the thread for the Talley mounts on here also so if anyone wants a set of those let me know and you will save ALL the shipping. NOW that will be a deal.

Happy smokepoles to all.


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## buttplate (Mar 10, 2010)

*Blackhorn*

Placed my order Monday. Hope it gets here by Friday. I will have plenty now for sure. Not sure how long six jugs will last me but should not have to buy any powder for a while.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 11, 2010)

buttplate said:


> Placed my order Monday. Hope it gets here by Friday. I will have plenty now for sure. Not sure how long six jugs will last me but should not have to buy any powder for a while.




good job on stepping up brother!

now dont forget...

1.  regular primers such as winchester 209s or some of the CCIs or remington sts.  if you use dedicated smokepole primers like those made for 777 you will get hangfires.

2.  do not swab between shots.  accuracy and loading will stay the same throughout the shooting session...maybe even get a hair better as it goes on.

3.  during cleaning, watch the breechplug for carbon buildup.  as long as you catch it during every cleaning it is no problem.  a 1/8" drill bit works great for loosening it.    besides price, this is in my opinion the only downside to BH209.

hope it works out well for you!


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## FrontierGander (Mar 11, 2010)

i fired blackhorn209 off yesterday in my CVA Accura. Its worth every penny.


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## creation's_cause (Mar 11, 2010)

This was a great initiative & very kind of you to try to save us some money...I am deployed right now & even though Mornroe is a drive from WR, I get up to Milledgeville and Sinclair from time to time if you ever want to get rid of some of it.  After I shot it a couple months ago, I treat that stuff as "gold"...it shot GREAT out of my Triumph!!!  You will probably want to hang on to it if/when you have similar results.  Hopefully, if Western gets a better supply flowing it will become easier to find and less expensive?


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 11, 2010)

FrontierGander said:


> i fired blackhorn209 off yesterday in my CVA Accura. Its worth every penny.



FG, this wasnt your first try with it was it?  I saw your posts for a year or so on modern muzzleloading and thought you tried it back when it first rolled out?


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## FrontierGander (Mar 11, 2010)

nope, never tried it before until yesterday. its super hard to find here in colorado. i did get 2 cans of it though. need warmer weather for a good day of load development


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 11, 2010)

FrontierGander said:


> nope, never tried it before until yesterday. its super hard to find here in colorado. i did get 2 cans of it though. need warmer weather for a good day of load development




sounds good, keep us informed on what ends up working in the CVA


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## buttplate (Mar 11, 2010)

*Blackhorn*

WOW, can't wait for my six, yes SIX, jugs to get here from Cabela's. My Encore wants a taste of the good stuff!! Got a buddy who wants to go hunt hogs soon and I plan to use the Encore with Blackhorn and power belts. 

I am going to the gun show this weekend with the intention of bringing home a SS Ruger Old Army revolver. Wish me luck. If I get it I will post pictures and show it off!!


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 11, 2010)

buttplate said:


> I am going to the gun show this weekend with the intention of bringing home a SS Ruger Old Army revolver. Wish me luck. If I get it I will post pictures and show it off!!


Good luck with the purchase of your Ruger Old Army. Have you got plenty of the "real" gunpowder for it? I have a pair of them. I love mine. u will need .457 balls or conicals to load on top of that Goex. I got some extra I can send you if u need em.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 12, 2010)

dear lord hawg, that is a fine pistol!  I keep talking myself out of buying one.

buttplate, although I know frontier will not agree with me...but keep some saboted bullets on hand when you go to the range...just in case you cant get the pbs to group.


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## buttplate (Mar 12, 2010)

*Sabots vs Power Belts*

I plan to take some of both Jim, thanks.


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## hawgrider1200 (Mar 12, 2010)

for hunting I bought some Hornady FPR bullets. If I can get em to group well, that's what I intend to try on deer this next season. at 350 grains they oughta have plenty of energy to knock em down.


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## buttplate (Mar 13, 2010)

*Blackhorn IS HERE*

One thing you have got to say about Cabela's is that they have an outstanding delivery time. Ordered it Monday and had it on Friday.

Headed to the gun show now to look for my new Ruger, wish me luck!!


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## SmokyMtnSmoke (Mar 13, 2010)

Well I stumbled into two bottles of BH209 @ The Bargain Barn for $29.99 ea.  Must of been living right today 

Jim, can you link me to those tubes you found on ebay that you put your charges in? 

I look forward to dialing in the load fro my CVA Hunterbolt .50


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## buttplate (Mar 13, 2010)

*No Ruger*

Well, I just got home from the gun show and no Old Army. I  tried but could not pick one up.

I am still looking if anyone has one for sale.


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## Jim Thompson (Mar 13, 2010)

SmokyMtnSmoke said:


> Jim, can you link me to those tubes you found on ebay that you put your charges in?



http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/lanes-powder-tubes-f6/lane-s-powder-tubes-t395.htm


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