# Long Range Muzzle-Loader



## GunnSmokeer (Oct 18, 2016)

Does anybody make a modern .50 cal black powder muzzle-loading rifle (inline ignition) made specifically for long, heavy bullets wrapped in a sabot, with the correct rifling twist rate for magnum-class 3-pellet loads that push a 300-grain .45 caliber jacketed bullet?

I'm thinking the ideal twist rate would be 1: 20 to the 1: 30 range. Basically twice as fast as the same caliber rifle would have if it were made to use with round balls of bore diameter.


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## deast1988 (Oct 18, 2016)

Maybe the Remington Ultimate rifle not sure caliber but hear it can shoot distance


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## GunnSmokeer (Oct 19, 2016)

*yeah*

yeah, that's what I'm talking about!

Remington says it's rated to take 200-grain powder charges, and can push a saboted 250-grain bullet at 2,400 f.p.s. muzzle velocity.

And the barrel (.50 caliber) has a fast twist rate to stabilize the long bullets. 
It's 1:28.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/05/remington-model-700-ultimate-muzzleloader/


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## stabow (Oct 19, 2016)

You mean 50 yards isn't long range ......


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## BarnesAddict (Oct 19, 2016)

If you're looking for a TRUE long range muzzleloader, capable of ranges much further than possible with mass produced muzzleloaders, then there is one out there and  better than the Remington Ultimate.

Its the *Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress*.
http://ultimatefirearms.com/modelsprices.php

The RU is the little brother to the UF rifle.  Remington purchased the rights to UF's patented ignition system.  Remington made the breech plug slightly different in hardness and threads, but still use production barrels.

*NOTE: BOTH THE RU AND THE UF RIFLES ARE CAPABLE OF MUCH HIGHER CHARGES AND BARREL PRESSURES THAN MASS PRODUCED MUZZLELOADERS.  DO NOT SHOOT LOADS DESIGNED FOR THE RU OR UF IN PRODUCTION RIFLES.*

The Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress has a much higher quality Lothar Walther barrel, with a 1:26 twist, with a muzzle brake.  Its built using the Remington 40X action.  It will send a 300gr bullet down range at 2,300fps, EXCEPTIONALLY ACCURATELY, using 3-T7M pellets (180grs).  It will shoot loose propellant as well, but it is NOT recommended for shooting BH209.  The heavy charges these rifles are capable of, are not for the recoil shy.
The Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress is extremely accurate, more accurate than most shooters are capable of shooting.  To get the most from the UF rifle, top quality STURDY mounts and rings, with a high quality scope is a must.  The recoil the rifle produces, will destroy lessor quality mounts, rings and scopes.

I purchased one myself and have had it for three years.  It is definitely different than what modern inline shooters are used to.  It uses a Winchester .45 magnum brass case as a primer carrier, and magnum rifle primers.  There's no fumbling around trying to prime the rifle.  You just drop the brass into the action and close the bolt.  Open the action and remove the brass to unload for transport.  However it is a rifle built one at a time and the cost is prohibitive to many.  It is a high quality hunting muzzleloader, built specifically for long range hunting.  UF rifles have harvested many large game animals, including brown bear and African game.

How accurate can they be?  Here's a couple target photos shot from my BP Xpress:





My first attempt at 500yds.  Witnessed and signed.


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## stabow (Oct 19, 2016)

That's the one I was thinking of but couldn't remember the name.


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## Darkhorse (Oct 19, 2016)

This is one I've seen make some really long shots on TV. It cost a little more than the remington though. Starting price is $5,750. before options.

https://www.gunwerks.com/


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## Nicodemus (Oct 19, 2016)

stabow said:


> You mean 50 yards isn't long range ......





Kenton was documented to have made some long shots.


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## SASS249 (Oct 19, 2016)

Nicodemus said:


> Kenton was documented to have made some long shots.



Just curious:  How many of you know who Nicodemus is referring to?


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## stabow (Oct 19, 2016)

I do.......:}


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## BarnesAddict (Oct 19, 2016)

Darkhorse said:


> This is one I've seen make some really long shots on TV. It cost a little more than the remington though. Starting price is $5,750. before options.
> 
> https://www.gunwerks.com/



Those rifles shoot with bullets that cost $2.50 each.


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## Darkhorse (Oct 19, 2016)

I do also....another one who is said to have made at least one long shot at just the right time is Timothy Murphy. He was known as the Saratoga rifleman having killed Brigadier General Simon Frazier and his aid just as he was rallying the british troops. Earning Timothy the name "Sure Shot Tim."
This shot is much more noteworthy than a 500 yard shot by a modern ML.


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## basshound72 (Oct 19, 2016)

SASS249 said:


> Just curious:  How many of you know who Nicodemus is referring to?



I know also


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## GunnSmokeer (Oct 22, 2016)

Not me.  I had to Google around until this came up:

http://touringohio.com/profiles/simon-kenton.html


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## SASS249 (Oct 24, 2016)

Simon Kenton was the real deal.  I think a lot of the stories we har about Boone were actually a blending of Kenton's advantures with the Boone legend.

Alan Eckert's book "The Frontiersmen" is a really good telling of the Kenton story.  Eckert's books are a good read for anyone interested in that period.  They are classed as historical fiction, but are really well documented.  In fact the one thing I do not like about them is that Eckert is in love with footnotes.  There are pages and pages of footnotes providing historical details etc.  Every time I read on of his books i swera I am going to just read the book and ignore the footnotes, but I get sucked into them every time.


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## GunnSmokeer (Oct 28, 2016)

what are some of the best long-range shots he did?

I've never seen muzzle-stuffers used for precise accuracy at distance before, EXCEPT...

... except one guy was at a range shooting 12-ounce paper cups filled with water, at 100 yards, standing, unsupported. Iron sights on a traditional flintlock rifle and a patched round ball.   

He was splattering those cups with almost every shot.

I can't reliably hit Coke cans at 100 yards offhand with even a modern scoped .223 rifle.  2 liter bottles, yeah. Not 12 oz cans or cups.


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## SASS249 (Oct 28, 2016)

The Official 100 yard  offhand "big bull" target used by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association has a 10 ring 2 inches in diameter, with a 1 inch X ring.

To be competitive in national matches you need to score in the high 40's on this target with one or more X's.

I cannot do that anymore, but at one time when I shot a lot more and could still see well I could.  It does take a lot of practice.


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## SASS249 (Oct 28, 2016)

The Official 100 yard  offhand "big bull" target used by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association has a 10 ring 2 inches in diameter, with a 1 inch X ring.

To be competitive in national matches you need to score in the high 40's on this target with one or more X's.

I cannot do that anymore, but at one time when I shot a lot more and could still see well I could.  It does take a lot of practice.


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## BarnesAddict (Oct 29, 2016)

http://nmlra.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Sept-Scores-2016.pdf


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