# DNR Turkey Season Survey...



## HD28 (Jan 15, 2021)

I just received and completed Ga DNR Turkey Season Change Survey. 

I voted for: 
1. Delay season opener 
2. Reduce bag limit to 2 gobblers per season. (I know....not popular.)

I am glad they recognize the decline and are willing to try some things.


----------



## Gut_Pile (Jan 15, 2021)

Did you get it in the mail, or was it sent by email?


----------



## GAHUNTER60 (Jan 15, 2021)

I voted the same way.  I usually find that peak gobbling is later than the opener, anyway (at least it is in the areas I hunt).  Maybe this way, the birds won't be call shy when they are really reved up!


----------



## HD28 (Jan 15, 2021)

It came in an email.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 15, 2021)

Mine came by email.


----------



## sjmauldi (Jan 15, 2021)

Email for me also


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

I didn't get an email. Very interesting. 

Is there a link to participate?


----------



## Gut_Pile (Jan 15, 2021)

I didn't get one either. Someone post a link


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

I wonder if it didn't go out to people who have a sportsman's permit. And only to people who held the individual big game tag?


----------



## beretta (Jan 15, 2021)

I received it and I have the Sportsman license.


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

Maybe we are blacklisted. lol

I called them. I want the right to complain openly. So I need to partake in the "decision making" lol

They arnt even going to listen to public input anyhow.


----------



## lampern (Jan 15, 2021)

You can email comments to this address:

gm.comments@dnr.ga.gov. 
*The deadline to provide comments is January 22, 2021*:

Mailed comments:

Georgia DNR Wildlife Resources Division
ATTN: Tina Johannsen
2067 US Highway 278 SE
Social Circle, GA 30025


----------



## deermaster13 (Jan 15, 2021)

email for me about 30 minutes ago


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)




----------



## bilgerat (Jan 15, 2021)

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...umZm5uLOpYNoyh1U46jwisQA-xZ01FI71s_VYgQmbSBu8


----------



## mike1225 (Jan 15, 2021)

I got mine by email. I have the sportsman license.


----------



## MesquiteHeat (Jan 15, 2021)

Notice on Mallards picture of the second question..... You can't put 1-5 on all the questions, you can only use one of the span for each proposal.  Unreal. Survey needs to be sent again, this one is useless


----------



## MesquiteHeat (Jan 15, 2021)

Email, Lifetime license


----------



## Deerhead (Jan 15, 2021)

I voted. Hope he get some positive changes.  The turkey population is so low we can keep going as we have been.


----------



## Silver Britches (Jan 15, 2021)

I got mine by email, but I do not turkey hunt. Not sure if they'd want my input or not, but I'd happily give it, if so. I know I see a heck of a lot of turkey here in my part of the state. In fact, I'd say the population is doing extremely well around here. 

I'll ask Charlie and see what he suggests I do before I fill it out. @C.Killmaster


----------



## cbradley11 (Jan 15, 2021)

I would like to see no taking of Jake's unless you are a youth. And it would also be nice to see them quit burning WMAs while hens are sitting.


----------



## tr21 (Jan 15, 2021)

filled mine out and also forwarded it to 3 friends


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 15, 2021)

Silver Britches said:


> I got mine by email, but I do not turkey hunt. Not sure if they'd want my input or not, but I'd happily give it, if so. I know I see a heck of a lot of turkey here in my part of the state. In fact, I'd say the population is doing extremely well around here.
> 
> I'll ask Charlie and see what he suggests I do before I fill it out. @C.Killmaster



The survey was supposed to go out to all big game license holders that had a valid email address.  If you have an opinion, voice it!


----------



## tr21 (Jan 15, 2021)

cbradley11 said:


> I would like to see no taking of Jake's unless you are a youth. And it would also be nice to see them quit burning WMAs while hens are sitting.


now you know there aint no hens sittin when they burn, because they burn before the season and they aint been breed yet thats why we need the season to start later


----------



## tr21 (Jan 15, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> You get the option of 1 through 5 for each question.  You can put all ones or all fives or any combination.


you sure about that i tried to put a 2 on 2 questions and it erased the 1st 2 answer automatically ....


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 15, 2021)

tr21 said:


> you sure about that i tried to put a 2 on 2 questions and it erased the 1st 2 answer automatically ....



Oops, you're correct.  I didn't realize it was doing that, it's a priority ranking question to see what you value the most versus the least.


----------



## Silver Britches (Jan 15, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> The survey was supposed to go out to all big game license holders that had a valid email address.  If you have an opinion, voice it!


Done!


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 15, 2021)

Just did my survey.


----------



## cbradley11 (Jan 15, 2021)

tr21 said:


> now you know there aint no hens sittin when they burn, because they burn before the season and they aint been breed yet thats why we need the season to start later


Lol. Wish that was true


----------



## Sixes (Jan 15, 2021)

I did mine today.

 I don't get the concept of no more than 1 gobbler a day. A limit is a limit however long it takes to shoot 3 birds. 1 day or 6 weeks, it is the same number of dead birds.

I've shot 2 before in one hunt but not anymore, but there is nothing wrong with killing one early and hunting a different bird on the same day or during the evening hunt.


----------



## bullit (Jan 15, 2021)

I've not gotten the survey but if I do I believe I would support a change. Based on a podcast I listened to last year by Michael Chamberlin, THE turkey biologist... it makes sense to reduce the season. I hate it but it makes sense. Just wish I could find a lease.


----------



## six (Jan 15, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I don't get the concept of no more than 1 gobbler a day. A limit is a limit however long it takes to shoot 3 birds. 1 day or 6 weeks, it is the same number of dead birds.


That was one of the changes I voted for.  I agree, I see no issue with killing your limit in one day if you can do it on different hunts.  I voted for 1 a day to eliminate the scenario where three come into a setup and none leave.   I've never been a fan of multiple kills on a single hunt.  I won't even double with someone.  I understand why people do it, and have no issues with it.  But I never cared for one person killing 2 or 3 with one shot, or one sit.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I did mine today.
> 
> I don't get the concept of no more than 1 gobbler a day. A limit is a limit however long it takes to shoot 3 birds. 1 day or 6 weeks, it is the same number of dead birds.
> 
> I've shot 2 before in one hunt but not anymore, but there is nothing wrong with killing one early and hunting a different bird on the same day or during the evening hunt.



On small properties it is a good change. It may give the twelve year old kid next door a chance at a Tom instead of the 56 year old Facebook like junky rolling those three two year olds that charged his food plot ground blind setup.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

Opening later is moronic. The state is not zoned and having a later start on the FL line will not be observed by many, I can assure you. A pile don’t wait for it as it is now. Heck, I may have to be an outlaw to eat any turkey nuggets. 

If there is a change, I’ll just observe Alabama season dates from now on...


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 15, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I did mine today.
> 
> I don't get the concept of no more than 1 gobbler a day. A limit is a limit however long it takes to shoot 3 birds. 1 day or 6 weeks, it is the same number of dead birds.
> 
> I've shot 2 before in one hunt but not anymore, but there is nothing wrong with killing one early and hunting a different bird on the same day or during the evening hunt.



The problem is that breeding is being disrupted by removing too many birds prior to peak nesting.  These are all just different ways to reduce the number of birds killed prior to peak nesting.


----------



## Sixes (Jan 15, 2021)

six said:


> That was one of the changes I voted for.  I agree, I see no issue with killing your limit in one day if you can do it on different hunts.  I voted for 1 a day to eliminate the scenario where three come into a setup and none leave.   I've never been a fan of multiple kills on a single hunt.  I won't even double with someone.  I understand why people do it, and have no issues with it.  But I never cared for one person killing 2 or 3 with one shot, or one sit.





buckpasser said:


> On small properties it is a good change. It may give the twelve year old kid next door a chance at a Tom instead of the 56 year old Facebook like junky rolling those three two year olds that charged his food plot ground blind setup.




I get what y'all are saying but I would hate to be on a several day hunt on great land and call one straight off the roost, kill it and be done for an entire day.

I know some guys that routinely tag out within the first few days, so one  a day isn't going to change those hunters.

As far as moving the opener, I would leave that up to the experts, but there is a big variance from southern GA to Northern GA in how far along the turkey breeding times are happening. I am not sure how a date is picked without splitting the state into zones again.


----------



## antharper (Jan 15, 2021)

I voted no change ! I would rather see decoys and the killing of jakes illegal. To many turkeys where I hunt


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I get what y'all are saying but I would hate to be on a several day hunt on great land and call one straight off the roost, kill it and be done for an entire day.
> 
> I know some guys that routinely tag out within the first few days, so one  a day isn't going to change those hunters.
> 
> As far as moving the opener, I would leave that up to the experts, but there is a big variance from southern GA to Northern GA in how far along the turkey breeding times are happening. I am not sure how a date is picked without splitting the state into zones again.



If someone calls one straight off the roost, kills him, and considers that anything other than a great day, with or without being able to kill another one, IN THAT SAME DAY, I have no respect for them and suggest they get into golf or fishing.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> The problem is that breeding is being disrupted by removing too many birds prior to peak nesting.  These are all just different ways to reduce the number of birds killed prior to peak nesting.



I’ve listened to the turkey doc, and I know that you guys are the experts, but has there ever been even one hen that was found to not be bred?  I know he believes the mating ritual to be fairly advanced, but I believe turkey girls to be a bit looser.  Just seems like barking up the wrong tree to me.  I like changes in the name of more hunter opportunity, but not in the name of “fixing” a problem that may not be real.


----------



## Sixes (Jan 15, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> If someone calls one straight off the roost, kills him, and considers that anything other than a great day, with or without being able to kill another one, IN THAT SAME DAY, I have no respect for them and suggest they get into golf or fishing.




I guess we can have differing opinions.  I just love to hunt, if I kill one in the morning, I don't sit out the evening hunt, I hunt just as hard and enjoy it just as much as the morning. Each hunt is a different chapter.

Same as killing a deer early in the morning. Just because I kill one, doesn't mean that I am done hunting for the day.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I guess we can have differing opinions.  I just love to hunt, if I kill one in the morning, I don't sit out the evening hunt, I hunt just as hard and enjoy it just as much as the morning. Each hunt is a different chapter.
> 
> Same as killing a deer early in the morning. Just because I kill one, doesn't mean that I am done hunting for the day.



But would it really ruin your day?  Even on a paid hunt?


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 15, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’ve listened to the turkey doc, and I know that you guys are the experts, but has there ever been even one hen that was found to not be bred?  I know he believes the mating ritual to be fairly advanced, but I believe turkey girls to be a bit looser.  Just seems like barking up the wrong tree to me.  I like changes in the name of more hunter opportunity, but not in the name of “fixing” a problem that may not be real.



I'm not going to claim to be a turkey expert, but I will put my faith in science.  The latest science says the season starts too early, so I think a change is warranted.  Only time and additional research will tell if that's what will fix the problem.  The only other option is to let the turkey population continue to decline.


----------



## Sixes (Jan 15, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> But would it really ruin your day?  Even on a paid hunt?


You are going to have to show me where I said it would ruin my day.  What I said was I would hate to be done for that day.

I'm not saying I would have to kill another that day, I would hate not to get to hunt. I work a lot of days and do not get that many off and I am only off 2 out of 5 weekends, so when I go hunting, I try and maximize my time in the woods.

I've only been on one paid hunt and that was for Rios in Texas. I killed one and kept on hunting that day.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> I'm not going to claim to be a turkey expert, but I will put my faith in science.  The latest science says the season starts too early, so I think a change is warranted.  Only time and additional research will tell if that's what will fix the problem.  The only other option is to let the turkey population continue to decline.



That’s assuming “we” are in control enough to LET them do anything.


----------



## Timber1 (Jan 16, 2021)

They changed my answers. Survey done by Dominion.


----------



## Mechanicaldawg (Jan 16, 2021)

I think they should keep it completely closed for 1 or 2 years and let all the Turkey hunters focus on furbearers.


----------



## strothershwacker (Jan 16, 2021)

Remember the buffalo


----------



## fountain (Jan 16, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> I'm not going to claim to be a turkey expert, but I will put my faith in science.  The latest science says the season starts too early, so I think a change is warranted.  Only time and additional research will tell if that's what will fix the problem.  The only other option is to let the turkey population continue to decline.


So what you’re saying without saying it, is it’s going to be changed next year either way we go here?   Kinda like the boss at work asking your opinion and then you tell him, but in turn, he replies with how it’s going to be.   
In other words, it doesn’t matter if we all voted to leave the start date alone, it’s still going to change.   I’m against it, but if it would help the overall population then I guess it’s a good thing
No disrespect to you Charlie.   I know the decisions go a little higher than we realize when it comes to making changes.   It is what it is.   
Now the thing will be to get the game wardens out and on patrol during the weeks leading up to season because I can guarantee you there will be many out there already killed 4 or 5 before legal season ever comes in the second weekend in April


----------



## Mattval (Jan 16, 2021)

What is the science about putting off opening day?


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 16, 2021)

Mattval said:


> What is the science about putting off opening day?


https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/d...g Turkey Harvest and Reproduction Handout.pdf


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 16, 2021)

fountain said:


> So what you’re saying without saying it, is it’s going to be changed next year either way we go here?   Kinda like the boss at work asking your opinion and then you tell him, but in turn, he replies with how it’s going to be.
> In other words, it doesn’t matter if we all voted to leave the start date alone, it’s still going to change.   I’m against it, but if it would help the overall population then I guess it’s a good thing
> No disrespect to you Charlie.   I know the decisions go a little higher than we realize when it comes to making changes.   It is what it is.
> Now the thing will be to get the game wardens out and on patrol during the weeks leading up to season because I can guarantee you there will be many out there already killed 4 or 5 before legal season ever comes in the second weekend in April



No, they probably wouldn't delay the opening without public support even though that's what really needs to happen.


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 16, 2021)

I haven’t gotten one either.  I’m for reduced limit to two and delayed opener. Reduction to one seems excessive.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> No, they probably wouldn't delay the opening without public support even though that's what really needs to happen.



And IMHO that would be a shame IF that lack of support for something that was based on scientific study and evidence was based on a sense of selfishness and shortsightedness. " I can`t be bothered to have to wait a couple of weeks because I can`t wait to get in the woods and kill something" may well be an attitude that`s  incompatible with the long term welfare of the birds. And before I get attacked, no, I don`t think that season start dates is the only factor involved in restoring the populatio. But it is one that we can control.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

Mechanicaldawg said:


> I think they should keep it completely closed for 1 or 2 years and let all the Turkey hunters focus on furbearers.



You might well see this come to pass if we don`t do something now. It`s interesting to me that some , certainly not all by any means, complain about DNR being do nothing and overly influenced by politics, then when they DO propose changes that happen to inconvenience these same people, they get assailed. You can`t have it both ways. If we support action NOW, we`ll be able, and our kids and grandkids will be able to hunt these magnificent birds in the future.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> I haven’t gotten one either.  I’m for reduced limit to two and delayed opener. Reduction to one seems excessive.



I could support that.


----------



## antharper (Jan 16, 2021)

fountain said:


> So what you’re saying without saying it, is it’s going to be changed next year either way we go here?   Kinda like the boss at work asking your opinion and then you tell him, but in turn, he replies with how it’s going to be.
> In other words, it doesn’t matter if we all voted to leave the start date alone, it’s still going to change.   I’m against it, but if it would help the overall population then I guess it’s a good thing
> No disrespect to you Charlie.   I know the decisions go a little higher than we realize when it comes to making changes.   It is what it is.
> Now the thing will be to get the game wardens out and on patrol during the weeks leading up to season because I can guarantee you there will be many out there already killed 4 or 5 before legal season ever comes in the second weekend in April


We desperately need some type of tagging system as other states have . And with hefty consequences if your caught without a tagged bird . Because the 4-5 before season and 8-10 during the season happens a lot


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

Some here are going to be so disappointed when a summer time start date and reduced limit only result in a less fun season for them. At some point they’ll realize that we don’t and never have shot hens in our spring season. Then “the science” might realize that hens really weren’t going unbred.  

Meanwhile, here are what the faces of the poachers will look like:


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

antharper said:


> We desperately need some type of tagging system as other states have . And with hefty consequences if your caught without a tagged bird . Because the 4-5 before season and 8-10 during the season happens a lot



I could personally support that as well. And the sun will come up on the day when those 4-5 and 8-10 guys will wake up one morning, say, “ Where the heck did all the turkeys go? “ and never for one iota of a second think about the role they played. Actually, they’d probably be among the first to start whining about  the “ Do nothing DNR”.  Just weren’t raised right, I think.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Some here are going to be so disappointed when a summer time start date and reduced limit only result in a less fun season for them. At some point they’ll realize that we don’t and never have shot hens in our spring season. Then “the science” might realize that hens really weren’t going unbred.
> 
> Meanwhile, here are what the faces of the poachers will look like:
> 
> ...


No question that poaching plays a role. There always have been and always will be ignorant, selfish and self centered idiots that don’t give a seconds thought to what they’re doing and could care less about anyone or anything else.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> No question that poaching plays a role. There always have been and always will be ignorant, selfish and self centered idiots that don’t give a seconds thought to what they’re doing and could care less about anyone or anything else.



And they’ll love not having any competition for a couple months of good gobbling. It’s a dream come true.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> And they’ll love not having any competition for a couple months of good gobbling. It’s a dream come true.



Should we assume that you`re referring to a delay in the season beginning? If so, I`d anticipate a couple of weeks as opposed to a couple of months. Also, would you be asserting the actions of outlaws should somehow prevent the rest of us from doing something that`s in the best interest of the birds?


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Should we assume that you`re referring to a delay in the season beginning? If so, I`d anticipate a couple of weeks as opposed to a couple of months. Also, would you be asserting the actions of outlaws should somehow prevent the rest of us from doing something that`s in the best interest of the birds?



With the past opening days’ schedule, they are already tearing it up in extreme south GA for several weeks. Adding more weeks to that will create a scenario for a lot of turkey action for months before they can legally be hunted.  For the record, I seriously doubt we’re going to “help” any birds because we don’t shoot hens and I’ve not heard any definitive proof that there are hens going unbred or not having success laying viable eggs. When it comes to poachers, yes, they should effect our thinking because there aren’t nearly enough officers to enforce game laws.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> With the past opening days’ schedule, they are already tearing it up in extreme south GA for several weeks. Adding more weeks to that will create a scenario for a lot of turkey action for months before they can legally be hunted.  For the record, I seriously doubt we’re going to “help” any birds because we don’t shoot hens and I’ve not heard any definitive proof that there are hens going unbred or not having success laying viable eggs. When it comes to poachers, yes, they should effect our thinking because there aren’t nearly enough officers to enforce game laws.


Oh, I completely agree that poaching should effect our “ thinking “. I’m just not a proponent of their illegal actions dictating what we might do to try to help the turkey population. If you believe that the start date of the season has no impact on the breeding cycle, then there’s probably little that anyone , including wildlife biologists, will be able to do to convince you. I do believe that it is a legitimate question to put before the DNR if you wish to take the time and trouble to do so.


----------



## six (Jan 16, 2021)

I'm all for the DNR trying something.  But I'm not convinced moving the opening date back will have any impact.  I've spent more than my fair share of time in the turkeys woods scouting before the season over the years.  I have seen countless gobblers mount hens in late February.  And I see poults every year toward the last couple of weeks of April.  So I'm not sure how much of a disruption in breeding the current opening date has.  

I've seen turkey hunting dumbed down so much over the years to the point where a person who has never turkey hunted before stands a chance of tagging out 30 minutes after sunup on opening day, no matter what date that may be on.


----------



## Quackmasterofgeorgia (Jan 16, 2021)

The quote that sticks out to me about these changes (and any hunting changes) is "If you voluntarily give it up, you might as well plan on not getting it back."


----------



## chrislibby88 (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> You might well see this come to pass if we don`t do something now. It`s interesting to me that some , certainly not all by any means, complain about DNR being do nothing and overly influenced by politics, then when they DO propose changes that happen to inconvenience these same people, they get assailed. You can`t have it both ways. If we support action NOW, we`ll be able, and our kids and grandkids will be able to hunt these magnificent birds in the future.


A lot of folks are with you, sadly, a lot of folks are too selfish and stuck in the mud to wrap their minds around sacrificing a small piece of their short term turkey hunting experience so future generations have it as good or better than us.


----------



## Quackmasterofgeorgia (Jan 16, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> A lot of folks are with you, sadly, a lot of folks are too selfish and stuck in the mud to wrap their minds around sacrificing a small piece of their short term turkey hunting experience so future generations have it as good or better than us.


Predator management and habitat management geared specifically for turkey will be more beneficial than a delayed season.


----------



## chrislibby88 (Jan 16, 2021)

Quackmasterofgeorgia said:


> Predator management and habitat management geared specifically for turkey will be more beneficial than a delayed season.


My local WMAs have pretty dang good turkey habitat. They have a very aggressive burn and logging schedule. Tons of successional growth and edge. I’m pretty sure if the DNR thought habitat improvement was a more realistic option they would pursue before they cause a riot over adjusting limits or season dates.


----------



## Quackmasterofgeorgia (Jan 16, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> My local WMAs have pretty dang good turkey habitat. They have a very aggressive burn and logging schedule. Tons of successional growth and edge. I’m pretty sure if the DNR thought habitat improvement was a more realistic option they would pursue before they cause a riot over adjusting limits or season dates.


We should cut the back half off of quail season and drop the limit to 8 and watch the population rebound while we're at it.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

Or make quail hunters shoot only roosters.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

Quackmasterofgeorgia said:


> Predator management and habitat management geared specifically for turkey will be more beneficial than a delayed season.[UOTE
> 
> That`s a very definitive statement. Is it based on opinion or scientific evidence and data? I would wager that wildlife biologists would agree that good land management practices and predator control will have a beneficial impact on turkey populations. I`ve personally seen no statements that land management and predator control are any more or less impactful than timing the season to better maximize the breeding of a larger number of hens bred by dominate toms, thereby increasing nests and poults.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Oh, I completely agree that poaching should effect our “ thinking “. I’m just not a proponent of their illegal actions dictating what we might do to try to help the turkey population. If you believe that the start date of the season has no impact on the breeding cycle, then there’s probably little that anyone , including wildlife biologists, will be able to do to convince you. I do believe that it is a legitimate question to put before the DNR if you wish to take the time and trouble to do so.



I know I’ve already overstated it, and for that to every reader here, I’m sorry. That said, can anyone show me PROOF that there are hens out there losing the opportunity to breed based on a season opener that’s too early?  I don’t think it’s too much to ask if we’re proposing change. Where they did the WMA “test runs” are they now overrun with jakes and jennys?  I kinda doubt it.

Wouldn’t that be the proper scientific way to implement change?  Use a test area to prove results. The current mistake that we’re on the cusp of will see a state wide change, a natural population rebound that was inevitable, and undue praise to the turkey doc for single handedly saving the wild turkey from the brink of extinction by early hunting.


----------



## lampern (Jan 16, 2021)

Outlaw decoys instead?


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

Quackmasterofgeorgia said:


> We should cut the back half off of quail season and drop the limit to 8 and watch the population rebound while we're at it.



I would hazard a guess that quail reproductive biology does not parallel that of the eastern wild turkey.


----------



## Quackmasterofgeorgia (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> I would hazard a guess that quail reproductive biology does not parallel that of the eastern wild turkey.


But the decline arguably does


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I know I’ve already overstated it, and for that to every reader here, I’m sorry. That said, can anyone show me PROOF that there are hens out there losing the opportunity to breed based on a season opener that’s too early?  I don’t think it’s too much to ask if we’re proposing change. Where they did the WMA “test runs” are they now overrun with jakes and jennys?  I kinda doubt it.
> 
> Wouldn’t that be the proper scientific way to implement change?  Use a test area to prove results. The current mistake that we’re on the cusp of will see a state wide change, a natural population rebound that was inevitable, and undue praise to the turkey doc for single handedly saving the wild turkey from the brink of extinction by early hunting.



A fair


buckpasser said:


> I know I’ve already overstated it, and for that to every reader here, I’m sorry. That said, can anyone show me PROOF that there are hens out there losing the opportunity to breed based on a season opener that’s too early?  I don’t think it’s too much to ask if we’re proposing change. Where they did the WMA “test runs” are they now overrun with jakes and jennys?  I kinda doubt it.
> 
> Wouldn’t that be the proper scientific way to implement change?  Use a test area to prove results. The current mistake that we’re on the cusp of will see a state wide change, a natural population rebound that was inevitable, and undue praise to the turkey doc for single handedly saving the wild turkey from the brink of extinction by early hunting.



That`s fair. You might want to google " Notes on Spring Turkey Harvest and Reproduction ". If you scroll down three or four entries, there`s one from DNR under Georgiawildlife.com entitled " Notes on Spring Turkey Harvest and Reproduction". Pretty interesting.


----------



## trad bow (Jan 16, 2021)

Get rid of the fire ants would be the first thing that needs accomplished for ground nesting birds. It will be the hardest to achieve but deliver the best results.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 16, 2021)

I agree there should be a test run on a few wma' s instead of messing up our season and changing limits.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 16, 2021)

#5, The season and limit is fine, cry baby's are going to cry. The harvest recorded shows that the TURKEYS is Georgia are in good shape, What a joke to change the dates and limits for cry baby's.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 16, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> #5, The season and limit is fine, cry baby's are going to cry. The harvest recorded shows that the TURKEYS is Georgia are in good shape, What a joke to change the dates and limits for cry baby's.



If the majority of the people who respond to the survey believe as you, I hope you’re right and the professional and trained wildlife biologists are wrong.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 16, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> If the majority of the people who respond to the survey believe as you, I hope you’re right and the professional and trained wildlife biologists are wrong.


Cry baby's cry LOUD when they can harvest a TURKEY


----------



## rolltidefan (Jan 16, 2021)

Well, I believe that DNR is targeting the wrong issue with declining turkey numbers. A small portion is attributed to hunters but let me say this. Georgia has more privately-owned timberland than any other state (22 million acres!) and produces more timber volume than anywhere else in the country. That means that there is timber cutting from thinning to clear cutting and then on top of that spraying and burning. While the spraying and burning are done primarily during non nesting times, these practices does harm the turkeys as well as other animals. Also, when you get a notification about spraying and to not access the property for a few days after they have done it, what do you think it does to the animals if it is so bad for people? Think about that number of acres that is used for pine farming. Cutting and thinning is a 365 day a year activity. So during nesting season, trees are being cut, dragged and heavy equipment ran through the areas where nesting is occurring. However, DNR and no one else is going to address that problem, it is easier to target the hunters and hope that changing the turkey reg's for the unforeseeable future will fix the problem. Well, there goes the buzzer because that is not the fix. So, I do not disagree that the turkey numbers are low. I do not disagree that the issue needs to be addressed. If it is a true concern, then explore all issues and determine the best resolutions to fix the problem.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 16, 2021)

If we lose hunting days and reduced limit we will never get it back.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 17, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> If we lose hunting days and reduced limit we will never get it back.


AMEN


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 17, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> I agree there should be a test run on a few wma' s instead of messing up our season and changing limits.



They have done this on Cedar Creek already.  Should have a great population now if this is the answer...Anyone know the results???


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/d...g Turkey Harvest and Reproduction Handout.pdf
If this isn’t good enough, there’s really not much else to be said, is there?


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 17, 2021)

rolltidefan said:


> While the spraying and burning are done primarily during non nesting times,



I must hunt farther south in GA than you do.   I have found many burnt up nests full of eggs and while I know the authorities will say that the hens will renest, most don't do so successfully on the second try. Hard to renest when there is not a blade of un-scorched grass left on 500 acres.

However as you mentioned, most of the timber land is private so the DNR has its hands tied if it were to try to change this.  Also, much of the WMA land is private as well and the DNR can't control what is done on there as well...example: the raping of BF Grant in recent years.


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 17, 2021)

I have no idea why I saw so many poults running around in mid May. Or why gobblers had so many hens in late Feb and early March.


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/default/files/wrd/pdf/research/Spring Turkey Harvest and Reproduction Handout.pdf
> If this isn’t good enough, there’s really not much else to be said, is there?



Obviously WE are the enemy!  Might as well go ahead and shut down turkey season for the forseable future since us hunters are disrupting the population so badly!


----------



## strothershwacker (Jan 17, 2021)

I love turkeys and Turkey hunting. If making a few sacrifices on my part will help, I'm all in. I quit after 2 birds last year. Could I have kilt my third, certainly. But I liked knowing i did what i could. I began to question myself after going to Nashville a few years ago at the NWTF show. I seen a young man with what looked like hundreds of spurs around his neck. At his age he must have kilt a limit of birds from 35 different states starting at bout ten years old. Is this what we're about? Is this the new Turkey hunter? We holler conservation then cry like 12 year old girls at a justin bieber concert when we have to drop one bird from our limit in order to try to turn the declining population around. Logging, I can't control. Burning, I can't control. Spraying, I can't control. Predation, I'm very limited. Roll with season & limit changes in order to help the situation, I'm all in!


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 17, 2021)

Anyway, here's my survey. No use in me filling out a form. A few clips 10 yards in front of 1 camera on thousands of acres. Hope to run 3 or 4 this year. Plant some white clover. Prep the habitat before hatch. Walk them before you mow. Connect the woodlots by bushhogging thinned pine rows. Wait to have your season shortened because the entitled want to kill everything and do nothing.


----------



## KentuckyHeadhunter (Jan 17, 2021)

Ban the use of decoys and the shooting of jakes.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> Obviously WE are the enemy!  Might as well go ahead and shut down turkey season for the forseable future since us hunters are disrupting the population so badly!


DNR is not saying that the season opening dates is the SOLE reason for the  declining numbers. I think Dr. Mike Chamberlain from UGA, a recognized authority on turkey biology and fanatical turkey Hunter, put it best when describing it as “ Death by a thousand cuts “. Weather, land management practices, predators, bag limits, season dates, disease, all play a part. Some we have more control over, obviously, than others.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> Anyway, here's my survey. No use in me filling out a form. A few clips 10 yards in front of 1 camera on thousands of acres. Hope to run 3 or 4 this year. Plant some white clover. Prep the habitat before hatch. Walk them before you mow. Connect the woodlots by bushhogging thinned pine rows. Wait to have your season shortened because the entitled want to kill everything and do nothing.


Good land management and practices can definitely make a difference! Congrats and thanks.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

strothershwacker said:


> I love turkeys and Turkey hunting. If making a few sacrifices on my part will help, I'm all in. I quit after 2 birds last year. Could I have kilt my third, certainly. But I liked knowing i did what i could. I began to question myself after going to Nashville a few years ago at the NWTF show. I seen a young man with what looked like hundreds of spurs around his neck. At his age he must have kilt a limit of birds from 35 different states starting at bout ten years old. Is this what we're about? Is this the new Turkey hunter? We holler conservation then cry like 12 year old girls at a justin bieber concert when we have to drop one bird from our limit in order to try to turn the declining population around. Logging, I can't control. Burning, I can't control. Spraying, I can't control. Predation, I'm very limited. Roll with season & limit changes in order to help the situation, I'm all in!


My buddy and I self impose a 1 bird/ season/ hunter limit on his 600 acres. He plants, manages and control burns. We’ve had birds every year. BUT ITS JUST ONE RELATIVELY SMALL PARCEL and does not represent an entire state!


----------



## CF2015 (Jan 17, 2021)

I'd like to see an archery season, just like deer hunting. Maybe for the first week or two of the season.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 17, 2021)

I see no proof that the trial run they did on Cedar Creek has increased the turkey population.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> They have done this on Cedar Creek already.  Should have a great population now if this is the answer...Anyone know the results???



I`ll be the first to admit that I don`t know how long experimentation has been underway at Cedar Creek. Like most things in nature, instant gratification may not be in the cards. Because a multiplicity of factors can impact dramatically a given year`s reproductive success for any species, weather being a primary one, it will take more than a season or two, or three, to begin to get averageable data.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> I see no proof that the trial run they did on Cedar Creek has increased the turkey population.



You may well not have. I don`t personally know, nor have I seen, data produced by the wildlife biologists conducting the studies at Cedar Creek. The measurement gold standard for turkey populations is poults/hen. That is what has been declining, not just in Georgia, but throughout the South and Southeast. My friend and I have lots of turkeys on the land we hunt. That in no way is an indication of the health of the entire statewide population.


----------



## tr21 (Jan 17, 2021)

yall if it wasn't for the burning the poor turkeys would have nothing and i mean nothing to eat ! how many turkey's have you seen eat pine cones and needles, none ? i know they try to burn early in the year but weather dictates when they can burn, if ground and humidity isnt right it does no good. plus if they burn in the spring in a few weeks everything sprouts up and gives them atleast SOMETHING to eat. maybe they should stop burning say after March 1st on the wma's. that might help from burning early nesters on our normal weather years


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

tr21 said:


> yall if it wasn't for the burning the poor turkeys would have nothing and i mean nothing to eat ! how many turkey's have you seen eat pine cones and needles, none ? i know they try to burn early in the year but weather dictates when they can burn, if ground and humidity isnt right it does no good. plus if they burn in the spring in a few weeks everything sprouts up and gives them atleast SOMETHING to eat. maybe they should stop burning say after March 1st on the wma's. that might help from burning early nesters on our normal weather years



Well, it`s not that they won`t have ANYTHING to eat ( turkeys are quite omnivorous ! ), but you`re spot on as far as the benefit of control burning is concerned. Control burning helps EVERYTHING in nature , with a not insignificant additional benefit of controlling the understory and thereby limiting wildfires. If landowners would marry up control burning ( you have to plan it and leave appropriate cover ) with some planting, we`d be further along on the way to healthy turkey, quail, etc. populations.


----------



## tr21 (Jan 17, 2021)

well if after 3 or 4 yrs they see a improvement in populations they could get the forestry dept. to either not issue or limit the number of permits for controlled burns during peak nesting times


----------



## Backcountry (Jan 17, 2021)

I'm willing to bet the areas seeing a decrease in turkey population has seen an increase in predator population.  Hunters aren't the only thing hunting turkeys.  Along with everything else mentioned, it's take a toll.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

tr21 said:


> well if after 3 or 4 yrs they see a improvement in populations they could get the forestry dept. to either not issue or limit the number of permits for controlled burns during peak nesting times



My impression, which may not be entirely accurate, is that burning is ordinarily done in the fall and winter. That would not impact nesting of any ground nesting birds. Again, that could be inaccurate. That’s when my buddy , who’s a trained forester, control burns his lease and owned property.


----------



## tr21 (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> My impression, which may not be entirely accurate, is that burning is ordinarily done in the fall and winter. That would not impact nesting of any ground nesting birds. Again, that could be inaccurate. That’s when my buddy , who’s a trained forester, control burns his lease and owned property.


the only burning on wma's that i know of in the fall is the dove field's, i could be wrong. most burning is done from January til the start of turkey season


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

tr21 said:


> the only burning on wma's that i know of in the fall is the dove field's, i could be wrong. most burning is done from January til the start of turkey season



Ok, well, if it does end in March, it should miss the vast majority of the nesting season. Matter of fact, that would probably be pretty good because fresh growth and insects, which are the primary early poult food, should have a good chance to be plentiful, LOL, if we get just the right amount of rain!


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> My impression, which may not be entirely accurate, is that burning is ordinarily done in the fall and winter. That would not impact nesting of any ground nesting birds. Again, that could be inaccurate. That’s when my buddy , who’s a trained forester, control burns his lease and owned property.



You would be somewhat wrong. Places like Tall Timbers actually encourage burning late and even summer burning. An extended quail season has put burning late in plantation country.  I burn for deer and turkeys so mine occur well before the hens lay, but it’s not at all uncommon to see rx burns in south GA occur in April/May.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> I`ll be the first to admit that I don`t know how long experimentation has been underway at Cedar Creek. Like most things in nature, instant gratification may not be in the cards. Because a multiplicity of factors can impact dramatically a given year`s reproductive success for any species, weather being a primary one, it will take more than a season or two, or three, to begin to get averageable data.



Any gratification may not be in the cards if it’s a stupid idea, which it may well be.


----------



## six (Jan 17, 2021)

Years ago there were a few turkey hunters who dabbled in deer hunting during the fall.  Then along came the NWTF, TV hunting shows, the internet, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube etc.    Now thousands of deer hunters use every available dumb down crutch and dabble in turkey hunting during the spring.   And now there’s a problem?   Who would have ever seen that coming?


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> If the majority of the people who respond to the survey believe as you, I hope you’re right and the professional and trained wildlife biologists are wrong.


Professional and trained wildlife biologist are told what is to be none by who cry the LOUDEST to  Politicians who pass unnecessary rules and regulations for the hunting public because the cry baby's cannot HUNT, I've hunted turkeys all my life all over Georgia and there are more turkeys than I've seen in past years,  Predator control will have more impact on turkey numbers than anything. Season date and 3 gobbler limits are fine in Georgia and remember once its taken away it want come back as easy as it was taken. JMO after hunting turkeys over 50 year's


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 17, 2021)

six said:


> Years ago there were a few turkey hunters who dabbled in deer hunting during the fall.  Then along came the NWTF, TV hunting shows, the internet, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube etc.    Now thousands of deer hunters use every available dumb down crutch and dabble in turkey hunting during the spring.   And now there’s a problem?   Who would have ever seen that coming?


Never could h


six said:


> Years ago there were a few turkey hunters who dabbled in deer hunting during the fall.  Then along came the NWTF, TV hunting shows, the internet, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube etc.    Now thousands of deer hunters use every available dumb down crutch and dabble in turkey hunting during the spring.   And now there’s a problem?   Who would have ever seen that coming?


Good old INTERNET is what HAPPENED


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> Professional and trained wildlife biologist are told what is to be none by who cry the LOUDEST to  Politicians who pass unnecessary rules and regulations for the hunting public because the cry baby's cannot HUNT, I've hunted turkeys all my life all over Georgia and there are more turkeys than I've seen in past years,  Predator control will have more impact on turkey numbers than anything. Season date and 3 gobbler limits are fine in Georgia and remember once its taken away it want come back as easy as it was taken. JMO after hunting turkeys over 50 year's




Understood and appreciate that opinion. Good luck this Spring.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> You would be somewhat wrong. Places like Tall Timbers actually encourage burning late and even summer burning. An extended quail season has put burning late in plantation country.  I burn for deer and turkeys so mine occur well before the hens lay, but it’s not at all uncommon to see rx burns in south GA occur in April/May.



Good for you on the burn timing. Burning in April and May will probably get some nests and young poults. That`s a shame.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 17, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> Professional and trained wildlife biologist are told what is to be none by who cry the LOUDEST to  Politicians who pass unnecessary rules and regulations for the hunting public because the cry baby's cannot HUNT, I've hunted turkeys all my life all over Georgia and there are more turkeys than I've seen in past years,  Predator control will have more impact on turkey numbers than anything. Season date and 3 gobbler limits are fine in Georgia and remember once its taken away it want come back as easy as it was taken. JMO after hunting turkeys over 50 year's



Maybe you're God's gift to turkey hunting, but several of us in north Georgia have realized you can't KILL something that's not THERE.  The mountain turkey population has crashed.  It's a shadow of what it once was.  I'll take the biologist's suggestions over someone else's observation of a narrow slice of the state.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Maybe you're God's gift to turkey hunting, but several of us in north Georgia have realized you can't KILL something that's not THERE.  The mountain turkey population has crashed.  It's a shadow of what it once was.  I'll take the biologist's suggestions over someone else's observation of a narrow slice of the state.



The DNR certainly recognizes that there are POCKETS of relative abundance in the state. Extrapolating that to the state as a whole is not scientifically sound. Other areas are not so. Long term data shows a regional decline as measured by poult/hen ratio. Those who either cannot or choose not to acknowledge or accept the data are certainly entitled to their position. If, however, those positions govern wildlife regulations and practices ( those pertaining to turkeys, in this case ), we can only hope and pray that those positions, as opposed to those of wildlife biologists, are correct. Personally, in addition to being an avid turkey hunter, I was trained in biological sciences and the scientific method. I know what path I`ll follow.


----------



## Beagler282 (Jan 17, 2021)

If folks would get out and trap right now during trapping season they will find themselves during more good for the turkey population than some survey taking things away from them.


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 17, 2021)

Beagler282 said:


> If folks would get out and trap right now during trapping season they will find themselves during more good for the turkey population than some survey taking things away from them.



I don't doubt that, but to run a trap line takes a daily routine that most working men can't commit to.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

Predator control is certainly one tactic that can have a positive impact in a given area, at least for a given period of time.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 17, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> I don't doubt that, but to run a trap line takes a daily routine that most working men can't commit to.



More working men could pay trappers if they so chose. It’s not a priority.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Jan 17, 2021)

northgeorgiasportsman said:


> Maybe you're God's gift to turkey hunting, but several of us in north Georgia have realized you can't KILL something that's not THERE.  The mountain turkey population has crashed.  It's a shadow of what it once was.  I'll take the biologist's suggestions over someone else's observation of a narrow slice of the state.


Then change the seasons in the mountains and leave us flat landers alone,No Im not gods gift to turkey hunting be we take care of our lease's and do not over harvest the land.


----------



## antharper (Jan 17, 2021)

I seen 70+ a few days ago at one time , and I truly believe it’s due to my trapping efforts , y’all keep arguing , I got to go to bed ... got traps to check in the morning ! And I work a full time job


----------



## antharper (Jan 17, 2021)

Turkeys number one enemy in my eyes , and they are easy to catch !


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 17, 2021)

antharper said:


> Turkeys number one enemy in my eyes , and they are easy to catch !View attachment 1061139



Trapping is impactful, fun, and affordable (even when hired out), but let’s wait on the .gov to fix the problem in a gobbler only spring only state...


----------



## northgeorgiasportsman (Jan 18, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> Then change the seasons in the mountains and leave us flat landers alone,No Im not gods gift to turkey hunting be we take care of our lease's and do not over harvest the land.


 I've long advocated for different seasons in different parts of the state.


----------



## MesquiteHeat (Jan 18, 2021)

Y'all never thought the Telecheck system would bring positives did you?  Now they have their 'data'.  Policy changes over incorrect information, I bet 3 out of 5 turkeys killed were registered and maybe not that high.  And we need to listen to ANYBODY that's hunted them 50 years, he can probably recall a time a man couldn't hear two gobbles in a week.  Lot of Facebook rookies could learn a lot from the old timers and how low numbers in the state ACTUALLY were....not estimated to be now.


----------



## goshenmountainman (Jan 18, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> I'm not going to claim to be a turkey expert, but I will put my faith in science.  The latest science says the season starts too early, so I think a change is warranted.  Only time and additional research will tell if that's what will fix the problem.  The only other option is to let the turkey population continue to decline.


I have lots of friends that live in Missouri, they have a really late starting season. Every one of them hates the new late season start date, they say the gobbling is already over by the time season starts, I for one will not kill a turkey if he is not gobbling, I don't care for the deer hunting style of turkey hunting, you want to fix the turkey population, make the limit one per person and enforce it! The turkey population has went the way of the deer population, to many tags for both, simple science!


----------



## Nicodemus (Jan 18, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Y'all never thought the Telecheck system would bring positives did you?  Now they have their 'data'.  Policy changes over incorrect information, I bet 3 out of 5 turkeys killed were registered and maybe not that high.  And we need to listen to ANYBODY that's hunted them 50 years, he can probably recall a time a man couldn't hear two gobbles in a week.  Lot of Facebook rookies could learn a lot from the old timers and how low numbers in the state ACTUALLY were....not estimated to be now.




I`ve been fooling with those birds for 60 years now, and I still learn something from every hunt. There really has been a lot of changes. Folks that hunt turkeys now talk a lot more than turkey hunters did back then. A lot more.


----------



## JonathonJEB (Jan 18, 2021)

Ga  could become like a lot of other states where all animals are a quota and you have to draw a tag. Tag numbers change every year and in every unit based off of the specific unit's biologist. Most states out west do this and they seems have a pretty good handle on populations and (opportunities - especially for residents). It seems to me there has been a huge increase in Turkey hunters over the years. I dont think harvest numbers tell the whole story.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 18, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ve been fooling with those birds for 60 years now, and I still learn something from every hunt. There really has been a lot of changes. Folks that hunt turkeys now talk a lot more than turkey hunters did back then. A lot more.


LOL!!! If one thing in this thread is true and accurate, those last two sentences are, I’m sure!


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 18, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Trapping is impactful, fun, and affordable (even when hired out), but let’s wait on the .gov to fix the problem in a gobbler only spring only state...


True. Then there are those of us, who don't wait on .gov, and do things ourselves to fix problems, but will end up paying the price for .gov's fixes in hunting days. The baiting alone creates enough coons to wipe out every egg for miles. Trapping or not.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 18, 2021)

goshenmountainman said:


> I have lots of friends that live in Missouri, they have a really late starting season. Every one of them hates the new late season start date, they say the gobbling is already over by the time season starts, I for one will not kill a turkey if he is not gobbling, I don't care for the deer hunting style of turkey hunting, you want to fix the turkey population, make the limit one per person and enforce it! The turkey population has went the way of the deer population, to many tags for both, simple science!





XIronheadX said:


> True. Then there are those of us, who don't wait on .gov, and do things ourselves to fix problems, but will end up paying the price for .gov's fixes in hunting days. The baiting alone creates enough coons to wipe out every egg for miles. Trapping or not.



Now there`s a thought. Talk about unintended consequences! Now you really want to see heck raised? Take the bait away from the deer hunters!


----------



## six (Jan 18, 2021)

Don't get me wrong.  I appreciate the DNR and what they do, especially the LEO's. But my faith in those who vote on and implement rules and regulation changes started to deteriorate when they turned hunting into shooting.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 18, 2021)

If some of these folks get there way we will get one week of turkey season with a 1 bird limit.Or a quota system ,If you folks that are having such a tough time killing turkeys will just quit we won't have a problem or a so called problem.


----------



## Resica (Jan 18, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Y'all never thought the Telecheck system would bring positives did you?  Now they have their 'data'.  Policy changes over incorrect information, I bet 3 out of 5 turkeys killed were registered and maybe not that high.  And we need to listen to ANYBODY that's hunted them 50 years, he can probably recall a time a man couldn't hear two gobbles in a week.  Lot of Facebook rookies could learn a lot from the old timers and how low numbers in the state ACTUALLY were....not estimated to be now.


Sounds like my experiences recently.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 18, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> LOL!!! If one thing in this thread is true and accurate, those last two sentences are, I’m sure!





deerpoacher1970 said:


> If some of these folks get there way we will get one week of turkey season with a 1 bird limit.Or a quota system ,If you folks that are having such a tough time killing turkeys will just quit we won't have a problem or a so called problem.



I personally haven’t seen anyone on the board proposing a one week season with a one bird limit(?). Who might that be?


----------



## Resica (Jan 18, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> I personally haven’t seen anyone on the board proposing a one week season with a one bird limit(?). Who might that be?


Debbie Downer.


----------



## fountain (Jan 18, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> I`ve been fooling with those birds for 60 years now, and I still learn something from every hunt. There really has been a lot of changes. Folks that hunt turkeys now talk a lot more than turkey hunters did back then. A lot more.


That and post them Facebook kills....


----------



## Jack Flynn (Jan 18, 2021)

I really think it's just the normal cycle of things and dumb hunters think it's supposed to be like on Youtube, then they complain and voice their inexperienced opinion on why the hunt didn't go well. All the while the really stupid thing is, the state is burning the pee out of properties and telling us they will just nest again at what should be prime breeding time, February and the first of March. That's a contradiction in itself. Heck burn in January. Now here's the major problem. I'm sure all of you remember several years ago, some of the long time members here saying the roads around some of the public places they have hunted are like I 285 on the weekends now during the season. There's the issue in itself. Heck DNR, don't effect the whole state with something you're not controlling on the public lands. You want to make a difference? Make the whole state 5 inch or longer beard to be legal no matter what. That will make a difference.


----------



## Darkhorse (Jan 18, 2021)

The property I hunt has regular fluctuations in the turkey population, but I've seldom seen it crash like it did a few years ago. With what little data I have I blame the predators. Put out some corn and a hundred coons will be on it in just a couple of days. Think how many eggs that many coons will eat.
We also have a healthy population of Bobcats and Coyotes. I know they eat a lot of turkey breast. I have personally seen a coyote catch and kill a gobbler who was coming to my calls.
My area and surrounding properties are all private land. I know of only one other turkey hunter. I never hear any shots during turkey season. Never see another hunter. Hunting pressure has little or no effect on the population.
However human encroachment has become a major problem. Humans are moving into what was prime turkey land at an alarming rate. And there is nothing I can do about that.
I hunt turkeys with a .40 caliber flintlock rifle. Most of my kills are within shotgun range as I like to watch hen and gobbler interaction.
I only take one gobbler a year during these slack years.
I don't think I'm hurting the population much but every year I hear less gobbling.
One year soon I won't hear any.


----------



## Dupree (Jan 19, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> I'm not going to claim to be a turkey expert, but I will put my faith in science.  The latest science says the season starts too early, so I think a change is warranted.  Only time and additional research will tell if that's what will fix the problem.  The only other option is to let the turkey population continue to decline.


I asked at the newnan public meeting how much the poult per hen ratio had increased on cedar creek wma since it had been delayed for the last two years and was told no noticeable increase, so what science, in our state is showing this to be a viable option?


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> I asked at the newnan public meeting how much the poult per hen ratio had increased on cedar creek wma since it had been delayed for the last two years and was told no noticeable increase, so what science, in our state is showing this to be a viable option?



Unlike predator animals which will fluctuate more gradually, prey animals such as turkeys should bounce back quickly once the problem is "fixed".  Why didn't it if delaying the season is the "fix"?


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> I asked at the newnan public meeting how much the poult per hen ratio had increased on cedar creek wma since it had been delayed for the last two years and was told no noticeable increase, so what science, in our state is showing this to be a viable option?



Another great source of information is Dr. Mike Chamberlain, Warnell Sch


cowhornedspike said:


> Unlike predator animals which will fluctuate more gradually, prey animals such as turkeys should bounce back quickly once the problem is "fixed".  Why didn't it if delaying the season is the "fix"?



That`s because it`s not solely a season date issue. Optimizing the number of hens bred and poults produced is ONE beneficial step. DNR has never stated that it is the " fix ", it`s just one controllable factor as opposed to those far more difficult or impossible to impact ( weather, predators, poachers, disease, etc ).


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> I asked at the newnan public meeting how much the poult per hen ratio had increased on cedar creek wma since it had been delayed for the last two years and was told no noticeable increase, so what science, in our state is showing this to be a viable option?



A very legitimate question and one best posed to the DNR wildlife biologists. Also, a good source of information is Dr. Mike Chamberlain. Mike is on the faculty at UGA Warnell School of Forestry, is a recognized authority on turkey biology and an avid turkey hunter. He is on some fascinating podcasts. Although it may take him a while, he welcomes questions from concerned hunters. He`s never failed to respond to me.

mchamberlain@ warnell.uga.edu


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 19, 2021)

If there had been no noticeable difference in pouts per hen on Cedar Creek with their later start why are they thinking about doing it state wide,that is just stupid .The fact is they don't know what to do and are grasping at straws.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> If there had been no noticeable difference in pouts per hen on Cedar Creek with their later start why are they thinking about doing it state wide,that is just stupid .The fact is they don't know what to do and are grasping at straws.



At least they are searching for answers to the decline. Of course, for anyone who feels that there`s no decline in the first place, the point is moot. This is not a population crash, at least not for the entire state. However, if comments from the boys in the mountains are any indication, they would beg to differ.  Turkey populations in Georgia and the Southeast have been on a downward trajectory for a good decade. That`s a fact. People can deny it all they want. Where I hunt in Georgia, we`ve got plenty of birds, but it`s only one relatively small piece of land. It would be unscientific and arrogant of me to extrapolate my experience to the entire state. As far as Cedar Creek is concerned, I`m not a wildlife biologist, but with the uncontrollable variables that are in play such as weather, disease, predators, etc., that may be present on a WMA, I`m not at all sure that a two year sample is adequate to conclude anything about season delays. That would be the determination of the wildlife population biologists.


----------



## Dupree (Jan 19, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> A very legitimate question and one best posed to the DNR wildlife biologists. Also, a good source of information is Dr. Mike Chamberlain. Mike is on the faculty at UGA Warnell School of Forestry, is a recognized authority on turkey biology and an avid turkey hunter. He is on some fascinating podcasts. Although it may take him a while, he welcomes questions from concerned hunters. He`s never failed to respond to me.
> 
> mchamberlain@ warnell.uga.edu


I will email him, but I questioned the biologist that was doing the speaking at the meeting I attended. I’m not totally against delaying the season until April 1, but they are calling for the second weekend in April on all wmas. 
If they are going to delay the season on public lands, they need to do it statewide and not “punish” the public land hunter. Public lands are only a fraction of the land in the state, and if the test subject (cedar creek wma) hasn’t shown an increase of ppp, then why the push for delayed season?


----------



## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

antharper said:


> Turkeys number one enemy in my eyes , and they are easy to catch !View attachment 1061139





Ive got turkeys too! I'm not buying this new 'science.' Tens of thousands of acres of designated 'wilderness' in the mountains that never see a turkey hunter means the turkey populations are not impacted by hunters!

We are predator heavy right now IMO.


----------



## jbogg (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> I will email him, but I questioned the biologist that was doing the speaking at the meeting I attended. I’m not totally against delaying the season until April 1, but they are calling for the second weekend in April on all wmas.
> If they are going to delay the season on public lands, they need to do it statewide and not “punish” the public land hunter. Public lands are only a fraction of the land in the state, and if the test subject (cedar creek wma) hasn’t shown an increase of ppp, then why the push for delayed season?



I don’t look at the proposed changes as punishing public land hunters. The fact is, public land receives more pressure than most pieces of private property. As a result, public lands may require more drastic measures than private.  I’m glad the state is implementing some changes before it’s too late, but I’m not a fan of the one-size-fits-all policy.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

Dupree said:


> I will email him, but I questioned the biologist that was doing the speaking at the meeting I attended. I’m not totally against delaying the season until April 1, but they are calling for the second weekend in April on all wmas.
> If they are going to delay the season on public lands, they need to do it statewide and not “punish” the public land hunter. Public lands are only a fraction of the land in the state, and if the test subject (cedar creek wma) hasn’t shown an increase of ppp, then why the push for delayed season?


Dupree, did the biologist not answer your question as to why propose expansion of season delay considering the Cedar Creek results to date?


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I don’t look at the proposed changes as punishing public land hunters. The fact is, public land receives more pressure than most pieces of private property. As a result, public lands may require more drastic measures than private.  I’m glad the state is implementing some changes before it’s too late, but I’m not a fan of the one-size-fits-all policy.



Differences in pressure public vs. private is a perspective that I had not considered.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 19, 2021)

I think they need to try trapping for several years before they shorten season and cut limits,maybe NWTF could raise money for trappi g.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> I think they need to try trapping for several years before they shorten season and cut limits,maybe NWTF could raise money for trappi g.[/
> 
> Certainly not anti- trapping, but does the size of your average WMA make that impractical? I truly don’t know.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> At least they are searching for answers to the decline. Of course, for anyone who feels that there`s no decline in the first place, the point is moot. This is not a population crash, at least not for the entire state. However, if comments from the boys in the mountains are any indication, they would beg to differ.  Turkey populations in Georgia and the Southeast have been on a downward trajectory for a good decade. That`s a fact. People can deny it all they want. Where I hunt in Georgia, we`ve got plenty of birds, but it`s only one relatively small piece of land. It would be unscientific and arrogant of me to extrapolate my experience to the entire state. As far as Cedar Creek is concerned, I`m not a wildlife biologist, but with the uncontrollable variables that are in play such as weather, disease, predators, etc., that may be present on a WMA, I`m not at all sure that a two year sample is adequate to conclude anything about season delays. That would be the determination of the wildlife population biologists.



Maybe they should finish the search before implementing change.  It’s not really rocket science. I manage a 2000 acre hunting property for a living. I trap, burn right, feed right, and we don’t try to kill every legal animal. We’re absolutely loaded. Some strutters hardly get out of my way anymore. 

The places I personally hunt are not under strict management. They go up and down in population and are tough hunting. There is 10x the hunting competition there was 20 years ago and 100x more than when I was a kid. As long as we don’t shoot hens (and we don’t), it boils down to the fact that not everyone will tag out every year. They are welcomed to quit turkey hunting, or learn to be competitive and a woodsman (impossible for some).


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 19, 2021)

If you removed the hunter from the equation, I can't see much of a difference if everything else in the woods remains the same. More skilled predators hunt 365 and 24/7.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Maybe they should finish the search before implementing change.  It’s not really rocket science. I manage a 2000 acre hunting property for a living. I trap, burn right, feed right, and we don’t try to kill every legal animal. We’re absolutely loaded. Some strutters hardly get out of my way anymore.
> 
> The places I personally hunt are not under strict management. They go up and down in population and are tough hunting. There is 10x the hunting competition there was 20 years ago and 100x more than when I was a kid. As long as we don’t shoot hens (and we don’t), it boils down to the fact that not everyone will tag out every year. They are welcomed to quit turkey hunting, or learn to be competitive and a woodsman (impossible for some).



Well, I guess we`ll see over time. One way or the other.


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 19, 2021)

Lot of reading here but I just hope changes are made (for the better of all of us and the turkeys) and people on this site have to eat their own words.

"Learn to be competitive and a woodsman"....What a statement. lol


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> Lot of reading here but I just hope changes are made (for the better of all of us and the turkeys) and people on this site have to eat their own words.
> 
> "Learn to be competitive and a woodsman"....What a statement. lol


Competitive is what cracks me up.  I hunt for me.  I hunt for my own enjoyment.  I don’t hunt for the approval of others so I do t care whether or not anyone likes my methods.  There are some small people in this turkey forum.  I would bet most of them haven’t even been hunting turkeys very long and have probably not killed many big gobblers.  But they are going to tell other people how they need to hunt.??


----------



## mallardsx2 (Jan 19, 2021)

I agree.

Like a few select individuals on here, I was practically raised by wolves in the wild.

I have been roaming the woods my entire life but I will try to be more of a "competitive woodsman" this spring. That's so funny I'm in tears. lol


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Like a few select individuals on here, I was practically raised by wolves in the wild.
> 
> I have been roaming the woods my entire life but I will try to be more of a "competitive woodsman" this spring. That's so funny I'm in tears. lol


??


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> Competitive is what cracks me up.  I hunt for me.  I hunt for my own enjoyment.  I don’t hunt for the approval of others so I do t care whether or not anyone likes my methods.  There are some small people in this turkey forum.  I would bet most of them haven’t even been hunting turkeys very long and have probably not killed many big gobblers.  But they are going to tell other people how they need to hunt.??



Fellows, I don’t mean competitive like “I’m better than you”. I mean competitive like there’s a flock between us and I make sure I’m at least as good at turning them into nuggets as you are.  I personally don’t offer much instruction, so as to be “competitive”. Another term that may have been in better taste is “relevant”. If you aren’t changing and improving constantly, you can quickly get yourself into the “not enough turkeys” crowd.


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Fellows, I don’t mean competitive like “I’m better than you”. I mean competitive like there’s a flock between us and I make sure I’m at least as good at turning them into nuggets as you are.  I personally don’t offer much instruction, so as to be “competitive”. Another term that may have been in better taste is “relevant”. If you aren’t changing and improving constantly, you can quickly get yourself into the “not enough turkeys” crowd.


Man hunt how you want to.  You should.  But other people can do the same.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> Man hunt how you want to.  You should.  But other people can do the same.



I wish, but their whining has forced a coming change for all of us.  I don’t care how you hunt, and never have.


----------



## Danuwoa (Jan 19, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I wish, but their whining has forced a coming change for all of us.  I don’t care how you hunt, and never have.


Not everyone is going to be happy no matter what.  Somebody is going to complain regardless.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

I’ll be helping the flock either way...just like today.


----------



## Buckman18 (Jan 19, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> Lot of reading here but I just hope changes are made (for the better of all of us and the turkeys) and people on this site have to eat their own words.
> 
> "Learn to be competitive and a woodsman"....What a statement. lol



Did you read the rest of his post?

@buckpasser mentioned one property that is managed has plenty of birds, and another property that is not has fewer birds.

I think that was a very credible post, and changing the decades old season regs will have no positive impact on his properties.


----------



## jbarron (Jan 19, 2021)

I voted none of the above.

Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.


----------



## antharper (Jan 19, 2021)

jbarron said:


> I voted none of the above.
> 
> Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.


I think this would help more than anything , and it wouldn’t have to be a lot . Heck I already do it for free but I plan on getting paid in the long run


----------



## stonecreek (Jan 19, 2021)

jbarron said:


> I voted none of the above.
> 
> Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.


North Dakota put a bounty on predators last year. Worked great and also introduced a bunch of kids to trapping.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 19, 2021)

stonecreek said:


> North Dakota put a bounty on predators last year. Worked great and also introduced a bunch of kids to trapping.



That would be awesome.


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 20, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> As far as Cedar Creek is concerned, I`m not a wildlife biologist, but with the uncontrollable variables that are in play such as weather, disease, predators, etc., that may be present on a WMA, I`m not at all sure that a two year sample is adequate to conclude anything about season delays. That would be the determination of the wildlife population biologists.



Spoken like anyone who didn't get the intended results from a study ...


----------



## MesquiteHeat (Jan 20, 2021)

Would love to see our state offer a serious trapping incentive, like a full refund of your trapping license for a quota of catch.  I caught 23 yotes and 4 bobcats between deer and turkey season in 2 clubs last year, imagine if 15 more people in my county did the same.


----------



## Turkeytider (Jan 20, 2021)

cowhornedspike said:


> Spoken like anyone who didn't get the intended results from a study ...



Not really. Sample size and uncontrolled variables are always elements to be considered in any scientific study, whether in the laboratory or in the field. Wildlife population biology was not my area of study, therefore I`m not qualified to assess if the length of the study or the variables I mentioned are significant in this particular study. As I stated, that would be for the wildlife biologists to determine, not me or you ( unless, of course, you`re one of the biologists who conducted the study ).


----------



## across the river (Jan 20, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> The problem is that breeding is being disrupted by removing too many birds prior to peak nesting.  These are all just different ways to reduce the number of birds killed prior to peak nesting.



I have read all of the studies done, so I understand the concept.  However, if there is only so much nesting cover on a place, how does it help?  The season was the same for years, and there were plenty of turkeys.  There were also fences rows, grown up fields, a lot of habitat diversity, etc.... Other GPS studies at Miss State have shown a huge dependency on habitat with a mixture and ~30% hardwoods holding the highest population.   If you have 1000+ acres of pine plantation with little nesting habitat, it makes no difference.  Those with good habitat will have turkeys, those without will not.  I get that is really the only card you have to play, but the changes seem like grasping at straws.  Especially considering other states have already made similar changes, without any statistically significant improvements that I’m aware of.  I guess I just don’t get punishing the dude that has worked hard to have good habitat and turkeys because the guy with poor habitat is complaining when you consider the changes are based on “theoretical” management and not something that has been proven to work at this point.


----------



## across the river (Jan 20, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Well, I guess we`ll see over time. One way or the other.


 
Considering very few state actually start the season in March, and the populations have continued to decline in those states as well, I really don’t think there is much to “see.”


----------



## hrstille (Jan 20, 2021)

Fire ants & folks spraying chemicals do 100 times more damage on turkeys than hunters.


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 20, 2021)

across the river said:


> I have read all of the studies done, so I understand the concept.  However, if there is only so much nesting cover on a place, how does it help?  The season was the same for years, and there were plenty of turkeys.  There were also fences rows, grown up fields, a lot of habitat diversity, etc.... Other GPS studies at Miss State have shown a huge dependency on habitat with a mixture and ~30% hardwoods holding the highest population.   If you have 1000+ acres of pine plantation with little nesting habitat, it makes no difference.  Those with good habitat will have turkeys, those without will not.  I get that is really the only card you have to play, but the changes seem like grasping at straws.  Especially considering other states have already made similar changes, without any statistically significant improvements that I’m aware of.  I guess I just don’t get punishing the dude that has worked hard to have good habitat and turkeys because the guy with poor habitat is complaining when you consider the changes are based on “theoretical” management and not something that has been proven to work at this point.



From what I understand there are many factors at play including things like nesting habitat.  These proposed changes can only address the factors that are related to harvest from a regulatory perspective.  You can't improve habitat on private lands with regulations and Georgia is 93% privately owned.


----------



## stonecreek (Jan 20, 2021)

Feral hogs also do a fair amount of damage to turkey nest. I hunted a small maybe 180 tract for a guy that was infested with hogs and the turkeys vacated the property but after 2 years of shooting, dogging and trapping we put a decent dent in them and the birds returned.


----------



## across the river (Jan 20, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> From what I understand there are many factors at play including things like nesting habitat.  These proposed changes can only address the factors that are related to harvest from a regulatory perspective.  You can't improve habitat on private lands with regulations and Georgia is 93% privately owned.



That is my point.   You guys could reduce the quail limit to zero and eliminate the season all together, and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, people who manage habitat will have more turkeys than those who don't.   Outside of Georgia, South Carolina, Bama, and Florida, most of the "eastern" turkey states have April 1st or later openings already.  Many have similar climates and habitats, yet they have experienced similar declines, and I haven't heard of any outliers.  You've got Chamberlin at UGA and Collier, at I believe LSU, leading these studies that are leading to this reduction, but I haven't even heard either of those guys say (correct me if I'm wrong) that it will make any difference in the population. They think it "could" help or "may" contribute, but don't know for sure.  Heck, the Bevil guy at South Carolina did a study 40 plus years ago before GPS, that stated basically the same thing these GPS studies showed, but populations were rising at that time even though the season came in "before hens went on the nest."  What everyone knows, without question, is that habitat is the main factor in terms of recruitment.  Studies have shown this as well, including the GPS study at MSU.  I say all that to say, this all comes across as some Hail Mary by you guys to do something just to say you did something.  I get it on WMAs, and I have no problem pushing it back on public places where pressure it heavy and all or most of the mature gobblers could be "killed off" before all of the hens are breed.  In that localized situation where there is adequate habitat it makes sense due to pressure.  I just don't get it on other places.   If a guy burns, manages his habitat, selectively harvests, etc..... I don't get reducing his season or limit when he will have birds regardless.   In the same sense, moving the season or reducing the limit for a guy who is hunting marginal habitat isn't going to increase his population above what the habitat can carry anyway.   If all the hens are trying to nest in marginal habitat, then how does it matter?  I understand you guys don't have a lot of options at your disposal to address the issue, but it seems like it is more of a case of doing something just to say you are doing something because people are complaining, rather than doing something that has been proven to work.


----------



## C.Killmaster (Jan 20, 2021)

across the river said:


> That is my point.   You guys could reduce the quail limit to zero and eliminate the season all together, and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, people who manage habitat will have more turkeys than those who don't.   Outside of Georgia, South Carolina, Bama, and Florida, most of the "eastern" turkey states have April 1st or later openings already.  Many have similar climates and habitats, yet they have experienced similar declines, and I haven't heard of any outliers.  You've got Chamberlin at UGA and Collier, at I believe LSU, leading these studies that are leading to this reduction, but I haven't even heard either of those guys say (correct me if I'm wrong) that it will make any difference in the population. They think it "could" help or "may" contribute, but don't know for sure.  Heck, the Bevil guy at South Carolina did a study 40 plus years ago before GPS, that stated basically the same thing these GPS studies showed, but populations were rising at that time even though the season came in "before hens went on the nest."  What everyone knows, without question, is that habitat is the main factor in terms of recruitment.  Studies have shown this as well, including the GPS study at MSU.  I say all that to say, this all comes across as some Hail Mary by you guys to do something just to say you did something.  I get it on WMAs, and I have no problem pushing it back on public places where pressure it heavy and all or most of the mature gobblers could be "killed off" before all of the hens are breed.  In that localized situation where there is adequate habitat it makes sense due to pressure.  I just don't get it on other places.   If a guy burns, manages his habitat, selectively harvests, etc..... I don't get reducing his season or limit when he will have birds regardless.   In the same sense, moving the season or reducing the limit for a guy who is hunting marginal habitat isn't going to increase his population above what the habitat can carry anyway.   If all the hens are trying to nest in marginal habitat, then how does it matter?  I understand you guys don't have a lot of options at your disposal to address the issue, but it seems like it is more of a case of doing something just to say you are doing something because people are complaining, rather than doing something that has been proven to work.



I'm not in a position to argue the finer points of this since turkeys aren't my area of expertise. I'm just trying to share information and recommendations from our turkey biologist and the researchers working on this.  I can tell you that Dr. Chamberlain does firmly believe that the seasons open too early and that it's negatively impacting breeding along with several other factors, he's told me that directly.


----------



## across the river (Jan 20, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> I'm not in a position to argue the finer points of this since turkeys aren't my area of expertise. I'm just trying to share information and recommendations from our turkey biologist and the researchers working on this.  I can tell you that Dr. Chamberlain does firmly believe that the seasons open too early and that it's negatively impacting breeding along with several other factors, he's told me that directly.



Point taken.  Like I said, I understand the move, because you guys have no other hand to play.   However, as you and I both know, having and negative impact and having a significant impact are two separate things.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 20, 2021)

Just spitballing here, but I wonder how many hens and eggs get smashed in the new way of farming. A lot of these guys are turbo filling after harvest and getting into the cover crop program. That results in pretty good nesting habitat that many times is then no till planted about the time hens are locked down. Just a thought.


----------



## Dupree (Jan 21, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Just spitballing here, but I wonder how many hens and eggs get smashed in the new way of farming. A lot of these guys are turbo filling after harvest and getting into the cover crop program. That results in pretty good nesting habitat that many times is then no till planted about the time hens are locked down. Just a thought.


A lot of hens are killed in hay fields every spring around here.


----------



## Son (Jan 21, 2021)

In my area of SW Ga, the problem is loss of habitat. Hurricane Michael took out much needed wooded areas, that are now cow pasture or crop land. We also see an explosion of coyotes and raccoons. Redtailed hawks take their quota too. Wild hogs and Raccoons destroy nest each year, we find where that has happened while turkey hunting.


----------



## Roy S (Jan 21, 2021)

six said:


> I'm all for the DNR trying something.  But I'm not convinced moving the opening date back will have any impact.  I've spent more than my fair share of time in the turkeys woods scouting before the season over the years.  I have seen countless gobblers mount hens in late February.  And I see poults every year toward the last couple of weeks of April.  So I'm not sure how much of a disruption in breeding the current opening date has.
> 
> I've seen turkey hunting dumbed down so much over the years to the point where a person who has never turkey hunted before stands a chance of tagging out 30 minutes after sunup on opening day, no matter what date that may be on.



Ronnie, does this mean that u think outlawing dekes and blinds would have the best impact for the conservation of birds?  I do like the idea of closing season for a year and let the turkey hunters put a dent in yotes and coons.


----------



## Ben1100Mag (Jan 21, 2021)

I do not support delaying the opener on only WMA lands.  Public land opportunities should not be reduced without reducing private lands also.

If the goal is to provide more breeding then it should be state wide not just on state land which are far less than the amount of private lands. If WMA seasons are reduced are the Jeepers, Horse back riders and others going to be kept out to let the birds breed in peace?

I could support a 2 bird limit and only one per day. I just can not see supporting reduced Public land opportunities.

A 3 zone season starting in South Georgia, then Central Georgia and then North Georgia maybe beneficial.......


----------



## six (Jan 21, 2021)

Roy S said:


> Ronnie, does this mean that u think outlawing dekes and blinds would have the best impact for the conservation of birds?  I do like the idea of closing season for a year and let the turkey hunters put a dent in yotes and coons.


I don’t know how much of an impact it would have on the overall population.  But I do think it would spare some gobblers.  Anything you take away to make it more difficult to kill a gobbler would have some impact on gobbler populations.   I’m not saying ban anything, but it would have an impact.   But the problem isn’t just  gobblers, so overall I don’t think it would have a huge impact on the population.   The real culprit is whatever is reducing hen populations.    And that’s anything from predators, nest robbers, land management techniques and loss of habitat.


----------



## Buckman18 (Jan 21, 2021)

Ben1100Mag said:


> I do not support delaying the opener on only WMA lands.  Public land opportunities should not be reduced without reducing private lands also.
> 
> If the goal is to provide more breeding then it should be state wide not just on state land which are far less than the amount of private lands. If WMA seasons are reduced are the Jeepers, Horse back riders and others going to be kept out to let the birds breed in peace?
> 
> ...



Why should my time and opportunity be limited on the private land I hunt? I have birds. I have birds because I plant productive plots and implement a predator control program. And the land has been control burned.

Some other folks do nothing, claim they have no birds, and then want me to change what I do? Yeah right.


----------



## cowhornedspike (Jan 21, 2021)

Ben1100Mag said:


> I do not support delaying the opener on only WMA lands.  Public land opportunities should not be reduced without reducing private lands also.
> 
> If the goal is to provide more breeding then it should be state wide not just on state land which are far less than the amount of private lands. If WMA seasons are reduced are the Jeepers, Horse back riders and others going to be kept out to let the birds breed in peace?
> 
> ...



Many things are handled differently on WMA and private land... deer baiting, open dates, quota hunts, etc so why should this be different...sounds like misery loves company to me...

Public open hunting land gets hit much harder than the average private ground and may need more restrictive management than general statewide land.  That seems pretty obvious to the average guy.


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 21, 2021)

Ben1100Mag said:


> I do not support delaying the opener on only WMA lands.  Public land opportunities should not be reduced without reducing private lands also.
> .



When public hunters spend endless time working on habitat, tearing up equipment, and throwing money at the wildlife, that could hold water. Punishing the conservationist in favor of redneck EBT cards won't solve much. Maybe we already have enough sense to limit ourselves. Heck, maybe we even give a generous donation to the state for biologists opinions.


----------



## across the river (Jan 21, 2021)

Ben1100Mag said:


> I do not support delaying the opener on only WMA lands.  Public land opportunities should not be reduced without reducing private lands also.
> 
> If the goal is to provide more breeding then it should be state wide not just on state land which are far less than the amount of private lands. If WMA seasons are reduced are the Jeepers, Horse back riders and others going to be kept out to let the birds breed in peace?
> 
> ...



You have obviously not read or researched any of the studies that have lead to moving the opener to a later date.  Next time I would recommend doing that before you comment.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 21, 2021)

across the river said:


> You have obviously not read or researched any of the studies that have lead to moving the opener to a later date.  Next time I would recommend doing that before you comment.



ATR, you are one grumpy son of a gun, but on this thread, I’m so thankful you’re here!


----------



## tr21 (Jan 21, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> When public hunters spend endless time working on habitat, tearing up equipment, and throwing money at the wildlife, that could hold water.


ok i've done over 1000hrs of volunteer work ( subsoiling, plowing, bushhogging etc) the past 15 yrs including over 250 in 2020, 3 times drove 160 miles each way to plow 30 acres of dove fields (and i dont even dove hunt) and donated 100's of pounds of chufa. SO LETS NOT GO THERE ! i know i'm not the only one


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 21, 2021)

tr21 said:


> ok i've done over 1000hrs of volunteer work ( subsoiling, plowing, bushhogging etc) the past 15 yrs including over 250 in 2020, 3 times drove 160 miles each way to plow 30 acres of dove fields (and i dont even dove hunt) and donated 100's of pounds of chufa. SO LETS NOT GO THERE ! i know i'm not the only one


I went there. And it obviously didn't apply to you did it?


----------



## Jack Flynn (Jan 22, 2021)

You know the delaying of the season on WMA's here in Ga could help several problems we have right now. There's way more people than you think from out of state that come and hunt our opener as it's not open in their state. Two weeks would push most of that company back to where their states are open respectively. We all know the guy that hunts like a banshee opening weekend then won't hit a stick at it after that as the crappie and bass are going crazy. That's more pressure off. Those guy's will be fishing most of them. Pressure is the problem period. The surrounding lands of all the WMA's around here are ate up with birds. The WMA's were also until this huge influx of people.


----------



## Ben1100Mag (Jan 22, 2021)

across the river said:


> You have obviously not read or researched any of the studies that have lead to moving the opener to a later date.  Next time I would recommend doing that before you comment.


I have read up on this subject and I am in no way infavor of loosing oppurtunutes on public / WMA lands.


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 22, 2021)

I honestly don't care if it all got shifted forward a tad. I have no desire to lose days. My old tail will go sit in the swamp at 90 degrees. There's been some cold turkey hunting the last few years compared to a few decades before. Other than that, 15 hens just walked in front of the cell cam about an hour ago.


----------



## six (Jan 22, 2021)

XIronheadX said:


> Other than that, 15 hens just walked in front of the cell cam about an hour ago.


I bet if the season had been delayed a week or two, 16 hens would have walked in front of it.


----------



## XIronheadX (Jan 22, 2021)

six said:


> I bet if the season had been delayed a week or two, 16 hens would have walked in front of it.


 Led by 6 coons. I'm just going to use reverse pyschology from now on. Say the opposite of what I mean.


----------



## buckpasser (Jan 22, 2021)

six said:


> I bet if the season had been delayed a week or two, 16 hens would have walked in front of it.



Next we’ll have the gobbler\hen ratio too high and “the science” will show us that the population is further decreasing from increased male on female harassment during the breeding season, leading to poor poult recruitment...


----------



## 3chunter (Feb 1, 2021)

Sixes said:


> I guess we can have differing opinions.  I just love to hunt, if I kill one in the morning, I don't sit out the evening hunt, I hunt just as hard and enjoy it just as much as the morning. Each hunt is a different chapter.
> 
> Same as killing a deer early in the morning. Just because I kill one, doesn't mean that I am done hunting for the day.


Can’t get on a hot streak of you got to sit at home for a week before you play again.


----------



## 3chunter (Feb 1, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> I’ve listened to the turkey doc, and I know that you guys are the experts, but has there ever been even one hen that was found to not be bred?  I know he believes the mating ritual to be fairly advanced, but I believe turkey girls to be a bit looser.  Just seems like barking up the wrong tree to me.  I like changes in the name of more hunter opportunity, but not in the name of “fixing” a problem that may not be real.


These changes won’t do anything for population.  I don’t know why people have to listen to agencies that control state lands that are the worst managed properties in the state.    Why am I going to listen to people who burn in April and then turn around and try to limit hunters more?


----------



## turkey2728 (Feb 1, 2021)

A broken clock is right twice a day.  A one size fits all season is like that broken clock--right for very few.  I understand that some areas have problems.  But I don't see it where I hunt in south Ga.  I know that they will break up soon, but right now I've got a flock of 14 longbeards and another flock of 8 jakes coming to a food plot.  A little early yet, but I've often been able to watch turkeys actively breeding in early March.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Feb 3, 2021)

turkey2728 said:


> A broken clock is right twice a day.  A one size fits all season is like that broken clock--right for very few.  I understand that some areas have problems.  But I don't see it where I hunt in south Ga.  I know that they will break up soon, but right now I've got a flock of 14 longbeards and another flock of 8 jakes coming to a food plot.  A little early yet, but I've often been able to watch turkeys actively breeding in early March.



AMEN friend,We seen large numbers of Turkeys here in South Georgia,As has been the case for years so WHY change the Limits and season dates all over Georgia,There may be problems with Turkey numbers in places so study those areas and change what it takes to bring the numbers up And leave us in South Georgia alone we have no problem here. Heard more gobbling last year than in the past and expect the same this year with what we have seen all winter. I've seen breeding happen in late February and early March for years.


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Feb 3, 2021)

For all these folks who think we need changes in turkey season,just change yourself and leave everybody else alone ,you can make a difference.


----------



## XJfire75 (Feb 3, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> For all these folks who think we need changes in turkey season,just change yourself and leave everybody else alone ,you can make a difference.



Exactly!!! It’s the same song and dance in the deer forums. We’re given fairly liberal regulations and limits but no one is making any person kill the full limit. If I didn’t have birds on my farm I wouldn’t be out there trying to kill 1 much less 3! I have a dozen in my yard almost daily through the spring so I hunt here and take 1 or 2 _and see more each year it seems. I work to improve my property’s habitat and it repays me with game. I’ll do my part to bring in more turkeys and deer and only take what I feel can be replaced. _

I’ve managed properties with almost no deer and didn’t pull the trigger on everything I saw and then whine I didn’t see deer. Same on properties I don’t have turkeys.


----------



## DRBugman85 (Feb 6, 2021)

We had a Pheasant shoot this AM and on the way we seen over a hundred turkeys along the Highway in the Felds we passed on a 55 mile trip,1 group of GOBBLERS(we turn around to see them) had 11 GOBBLERS and a few 2year olds that were just standing in the field looking at us, less than 5 miles up the road a flock of 20 plus feeding mixed with Jake's and hens,Good seeing that the Turkey population in South Georgia is in great condition, had other shooters tell us the same story as they were driving from the west to the shoot. More turkeys than last year for sure, can't see any PROBLEMS with the population way down South in DIXIELAND. So I'm for ZERO CHANGE IN dates or limits in our area of Georgia And never will


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Feb 6, 2021)

DRBugman85 said:


> We had a Pheasant shoot this AM and on the way we seen over a hundred turkeys along the Highway in the Felds we passed on a 55 mile trip,1 group of GOBBLERS(we turn around to see them) had 11 GOBBLERS and a few 2year olds that were just standing in the field looking at us, less than 5 miles up the road a flock of 20 plus feeding mixed with Jake's and hens,Good seeing that the Turkey population in South Georgia is in great condition, had other shooters tell us the same story as they were driving from the west to the shoot. More turkeys than last year for sure, can't see any PROBLEMS with the population way down South in DIXIELAND. So I'm for ZERO CHANGE IN dates or limits in our area of Georgia And never will


Are you sure those we're turkeys,to hear some of these morons we ain't got no turkeys they are all gone.I think they are just pushing to get our season shortened and lowering limits and using low turkey populations as an excuse.


----------



## buckpasser (Feb 6, 2021)

If you stop and think about it, and Dr. Chamberlain is correct, wouldn’t that be very evident in south GA being a strong or stronger flock than north GA?  The current uniform opening day in such a huge state north to south is interesting.  It would literally be like opening south GA in late February.  My mountain buddies seem to really still be in killing mode into May. Down here May is sometimes identical to July in Turkey behavior in that’s its long over.  If there is any merit to his theory, we should have proof staring is in the face. If it’s garbage, that too should show up.  Thoughts?


----------



## DRBugman85 (Feb 6, 2021)

deerpoacher1970 said:


> Are you sure those we're turkeys,to hear some of these morons we ain't got no turkeys they are all gone.I think they are just pushing to get our season shortened and lowering limits and using low turkey populations as an excuse.


Well my eyes are not what they used to be BUT yes Sir Turkeys and on the road back more flocks in fields my Buddy was truly amazed how many gobbler that are still flocked up,and there was plenty, BTW  we were late getting home


----------



## deerpoacher1970 (Feb 7, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> If you stop and think about it, and Dr. Chamberlain is correct, wouldn’t that be very evident in south GA being a strong or stronger flock than north GA?  The current uniform opening day in such a huge state north to south is interesting.  It would literally be like opening south GA in late February.  My mountain buddies seem to really still be in killing mode into May. Down here May is sometimes identical to July in Turkey behavior in that’s its long over.  If there is any merit to his theory, we should have proof staring is in the face. If it’s garbage, that too should show up.  Thoughts?


I am curious how many wet springs in a row we have had in a row,I just think this is a knee jerk reaction and once these changes are made we will never get things back that they take away.They need to target worst wma' s first and see if it does any good.


----------



## Son (Feb 7, 2021)

Just saw the first sign of flocks breaking up in Miller Co at the Early Co line. Single hens wandering the woods roads.  We don't have the numbers we once had. Two reasons. The property was cleared different years and replanted. It's too thick for turkeys now. Plus, most of the land around us has been cleared for pasture and farms. Huge problem for turkey nest is the numbers of coons in our area. The hogs don't help much either.


----------

