# T/C Shockwave terminal performance



## Dutch

Anybody using the T/C Shockwave experience problems with bullet expansion with them on a deer? I read some mixed reviews on them...good accuracy, so-so terminal performance on deer.

Just wondering, I have some 250gr to try with my new .50 M/L, I have been using 225gr P/B in my .45 M/L with no issues, even though I have read mixed reviews on them as well.

I think alot of the bad reviews have to do with shot placement not the bullet.


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## Jim Thompson

dutch I use 250gr bonded shocks without issue.  some pass through and some dont.  never really paid much attention to the actual expansion since the deer are always laying dead real close by


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## wtailchaser

I use the 250 gr. also.  I have not had one that I could check out after a successful hunt.  Like Jim said, there has been a dead deer close by.


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## FERAL ONE

dutch, i am new to the shockwaves but i was very pleased with the blood trail left by the one deer i shot with them.


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## HandgunHTR

I have been using the Shockwaves for about 5 years now.  I have yet to lose a deer that was hit by them and it turns the insides to jelly.
I was thinking about going to the bonded bullets for my bear hunt but decided against it.  I will make sure to update this if I shoot one this weekend.


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## mr4shootin

With a .50 caliber hole, who needs expansion?


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## captainhook

Shockwaves are the best muzzleloader projectile I have ever used. They always seem to expand and leave an exit wound about twice the entrance. Great blood trail and always a dead deer.  Powerbelts are the worst, I have had point blank kills and shots to 100 yds with the powerbelt with no exit. The first ones that came out are the ones I used. No exit, little blood. The pbs overexpanded and underpenetrated. The pbs and shockwaves are both very accurate and I can easily hit my target at 200 yds easily with my 209 x 50 Encore (first years production). I only shoot 100 gr of 777 with either projectile as this is the most accurate. Even with this load I achieve pass throughs at over 100 yds on broadside targets consistently. The only shockwave I ever recovered struck the buck in the front shoulder and lodged on the skin of the opposite ham after traversing the entire animal. Upon recovery It looked just like a projectile fired from a high powered rifle. I was sitting on the ground and grunted the buck in to 60 yds hence the shot angle. For best accuracy I use 777 patches to clean between shots which enables consistent bullet seating. 

Good luck and best wishes!


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## ultramag

captainhook said:


> Shockwaves are the best muzzleloader projectile I have ever used. They always seem to expand and leave an exit wound about twice the entrance. Great blood trail and always a dead deer.  Powerbelts are the worst, I have had point blank kills and shots to 100 yds with the powerbelt with no exit. The first ones that came out are the ones I used. No exit, little blood. The pbs overexpanded and underpenetrated. The pbs and shockwaves are both very accurate and I can easily hit my target at 200 yds easily with my 209 x 50 Encore (first years production). I only shoot 100 gr of 777 with either projectile as this is the most accurate. Even with this load I achieve pass throughs at over 100 yds on broadside targets consistently. The only shockwave I ever recovered struck the buck in the front shoulder and lodged on the skin of the opposite ham after traversing the entire animal. Upon recovery It looked just like a projectile fired from a high powered rifle. I was sitting on the ground and grunted the buck in to 60 yds hence the shot angle. For best accuracy I use 777 patches to clean between shots which enables consistent bullet seating.
> 
> Good luck and best wishes!



Just what Captain Hook said...That is exactly what i experienced also


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## Jay Hughes

I just switch from the regular super slicks to the bonded super slicks.  The bonded has the blue tip.  It should get better penetration as far as a shoulder shot is concerned!


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## LanceColeman

never had an issue out of TC shockwaves. It's basically a hornady XTP with a different color tip and packaged in a TC package. outstanding round for 50 cals.


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## jdrawdy

Shiockwaves worked great this weekend, two of the guys i was hunting with killed something this weekend using them.  One was using the same load i shoot (200 grain shockwave with 120 grn 777) shot a doe at 30 yards.  Clean pass through with an exit hole about the size of a 50 cent piece.  The other shot a hog at 90 yards right behind the ears using a 250 grn with 100 grn of 777.  Both were recovered within minutes, the doe went about 20-yards and the hog dropped in her tracks.  Great performance imo.


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## devolve

killed one deer with the shockwave, bullet went through WITHOUT EXPANSION!! broadside, 90 yards in the shoulder, 180+lb buck. Had to shoot him again while he layed there flopping around trying to get up. The farthest I could get away from him and still see him while he was on the ground was 15 yards. I had to shoot him the 2nd time in the spine at 15 yards with a 50 cal!!!! I will NEVER shoot that bullet again. 

since then, 7 deer with the XTP and ALL of them went down for the count. Ridiculous expansion and dug every single bullet out of all 7 deer.


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## HandgunHTR

devolve said:


> killed one deer with the shockwave, bullet went through WITHOUT EXPANSION!! broadside, 90 yards in the shoulder, 180+lb buck. Had to shoot him again while he layed there flopping around trying to get up. The farthest I could get away from him and still see him while he was on the ground was 15 yards. I had to shoot him the 2nd time in the spine at 15 yards with a 50 cal!!!! I will NEVER shoot that bullet again.
> 
> since then, 7 deer with the XTP and ALL of them went down for the count. Ridiculous expansion and dug every single bullet out of all 7 deer.



So, the deer dropped where it stood and because it didn't die immediately, it was the bullet's fault?

If you hit it in the shoulder and it didn't expire in 30 seconds, but it dropped, you must have hit it high shoulder.  The fact that the deer didn't die immediately was a shot placement issue, not a bullet issue.

And BTW, the Shockwave is made by Hornady and is the same construction as the XTP with a plastic tip put in the hollow-point.


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## devolve

HandgunHTR said:


> So, the deer dropped where it stood and because it didn't die immediately, it was the bullet's fault?
> 
> If you hit it in the shoulder and it didn't expire in 30 seconds, but it dropped, you must have hit it high shoulder.  The fact that the deer didn't die immediately was a shot placement issue, not a bullet issue.
> 
> And BTW, the Shockwave is made by Hornady and is the same construction as the XTP with a plastic tip put in the hollow-point.



wrong there bud, You missed everything I said and read what you wanted to. *THE BULLET NEVER EXPANDED*. SAME SIZE ENTRY AND EXIT HOLE. And after a lengthy conversation with greg ritz about it at the shot show that year he agreed something was wrong with the particular run of bullets. all were sent back and they sent me the xtp's to try out because in t/c's own words "the xtp bullet design has been more effective in ballistic gel tests than the shockwave".

have a nice day.

--c--


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## devolve

HandgunHTR said:


> And BTW, the Shockwave is made by Hornady and is the same construction as the XTP with a plastic tip put in the hollow-point.



O' forgot to mention,

According to t/c and hornady the shockwave and sst are the same. there are differences between both aforementioned bullets and the xtp, including down range ballistics and kenetic energy retention.


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## HandgunHTR

devolve said:


> wrong there bud, You missed everything I said and read what you wanted to. *THE BULLET NEVER EXPANDED*. SAME SIZE ENTRY AND EXIT HOLE. And after a lengthy conversation with greg ritz about it at the shot show that year he agreed something was wrong with the particular run of bullets. all were sent back and they sent me the xtp's to try out because in t/c's own words "the xtp bullet design has been more effective in ballistic gel tests than the shockwave".
> 
> have a nice day.
> 
> --c--



No I didn't read it wrong.

I made an inferrence based on what you wrote that you hit the deer high shoulder.  Was this correct or incorrect?

As for the "no expansion" part, how can you be certain of this without recovering the bullet?  I highly doubt that the exit and entry wounds were the same size, and even if they were, it could be explained by the petals of the bullet being sheared off by bone, leaving only the base to exit.  It is very difficult to tell the difference between .45" and .65" on a hide that is flexible and movable, let alone one that is covered in hair, blood and meat.

I refuse to pass judgment on anything with only one data point as "proof".


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## LanceColeman

*Warning graphic pictures*

My wife made it possible for me to do a little illustration for TC shockwaves this morning.






This is the entrance wound side of a doe shot with 100grs of shockeys gold and a 250gr TC shockwave from a distance of about 60-70yds. It centered a rib and put a fairly large wound opening in the ribcage.






Now here's a deceptive picture of the exit wound, doesn't seem like much damage or wound from the outside. Notice she pretty much centered the shoulder on exit.






But a look underneath shows not only the actual size of the exit wound but also the internal damage done. Notice all the blood thats flown from beneath the shoulder muscles and down in to the fat (yes she was an extremely fat doe as well, lots of that clear bubbly fat all down her sides.)






Although her shot was a little high and the angle not perfect (I sure aint gonna tell my wife that!) the deer only went 40yds and piled up dead.


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## devolve

HandgunHTR said:


> No I didn't read it wrong.
> 
> I made an inferrence based on what you wrote that you hit the deer high shoulder.  Was this correct or incorrect?
> 
> As for the "no expansion" part, how can you be certain of this without recovering the bullet?  I highly doubt that the exit and entry wounds were the same size, and even if they were, it could be explained by the petals of the bullet being sheared off by bone, leaving only the base to exit.  It is very difficult to tell the difference between .45" and .65" on a hide that is flexible and movable, let alone one that is covered in hair, blood and meat.
> 
> I refuse to pass judgment on anything with only one data point as "proof".



not high shoulder, *in the shoulder*. 

I knew I shouldn't have even posted anything on here. To many people know more than everyone else. I guess your one of those people. You weren't there when it happened but I guess you know better than I would huh? 

I merely posted my results and findings which is what the original poster wanted. 

Have fun arguing with yourself on the internet you win im done on this one...


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## mi.sabot

I have a bit of mixed emotions regarding the shockwaves.

I was shooting the 250 gr easy glides over 85 gr of loose 777 using the 25ACp ignition.
Accuracy was outstanding!

Now within our hunting group over the last 2 years, 7 deer have been taken with 7 shots all using the 250 gr. easy glides.
Can't complain with the success ratio.  6 of the 7 have been bang flops.  Again not a bad ratio.

But the 2 kills that I have personally been involved with didn't convinve me that this is the bullet I will stick with.

Case 1: I was in the blind with my son 2 yrs ago and he decided to take a relatively small doe at a relatively close range.  I was ok with this as it was going to be the first deer he was attempting to harvest.  A perfectly placed shot behind the shoulder resulted in a relatively long tracking job.  Fortunately there was snow on the ground to follow what I would considered to be a very very light blood trail.

Case 2:  Last year I bang flopped a nice doe standing broadside at 130 yds.  Entrance wound in the front shoulder, exit wound near the rear on the opposite side.  Bullet ran right thru the tenderloins.  Hmmmm? Could she have started to turn as I squeezed the trigger, possibly, but I really don't think that was the case.

I really can't argue with the end results but nonetheless  I'll be taking some Barnes T-EZs into the woods this season.






Two hit with Shockwaves, the other by a Ford F-150!


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## Public Land Prowler

Have not lost a single hog or deer since using t/c 250gr shockwaves,and 150 gr pyrodex pellets..In my old T/C Omega,and currently in my t/c triumph...proofs in the pictures..

















































































Even for the wife..lol


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## FERAL ONE

sweet evidence plp !!!!   i got to put one to the test this eve. i was 24 hours from having a deerless year and a small 7 and a unicorn stepped out at 138 yards. i have seen these same deer 4 times and decided today with 5 minutes of light left to take the shot. it was raining so no evaluation on the blood trail, but the deer made it 25 yards with massive damage. i am still pleased and kept my goal of no centerfires this year !!!


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## LanceColeman

Geez Prowler!! why dontcha just shoot ALL the big pigs!! Lotsa them boys got some serious  dawg stabbers!! Thats some mighty fine evidence ya got there man.


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## hawgrider1200

*shoot em all*



LanceColeman said:


> Geez Prowler!! why dontcha just shoot ALL the big pigs!! Lotsa them boys got some serious  dawg stabbers!! Thats some mighty fine evidence ya got there man.



Don't matter how many u shoot there will be more to take their place in a few months. Shoot all you can!!! Trap some too!


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## Jim Thompson

FERAL ONE said:


> sweet evidence plp !!!!   i got to put one to the test this eve. i was 24 hours from having a deerless year and a small 7 and a unicorn stepped out at 138 yards. i have seen these same deer 4 times and decided today with 5 minutes of light left to take the shot. it was raining so no evaluation on the blood trail, but the deer made it 25 yards with massive damage. i am still pleased and kept my goal of no centerfires this year !!!



congrats on the last minute success feral!


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## Public Land Prowler

congrats feral one!


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## Davexx1

The terminal performance (expansion, exit, etc.) of a hunting bullet depends upon its construction, the speed it is traveling when it hits the animal, and what it encounters on and after impact.  Bullet manufacturers try to make a bullet that will perform well at a wide range of velocities and situations, but the truth is that no one bullet will perform perfectly at all speeds and situations.

A shot thru the shoulder, that hits the shoulder blade and heavy leg bone is less likely to exit the far side than a shot behind the shoulder where only ribs and internals are encountered.  Closer range shots at higher velocities with higher powered guns are usually more likely to produce exit wounds, but not always.  Muzz bullets are big, heavy, and slow compared to modern rifle calibers, may not produce the massive shock and tissue destruction of the modern and faster calibers, but they are effective if used with good judgement and within a conservative and effective range.

PB's are known to be constructed of soft lead with only a base seal which makes them easy to load in muzz gun, but because of the softer lead composition they have a reputation for quick over expansion, lack of penetration in some instances, break apart, etc.

I think it is safe to say that no one bullet is perfect for all game and hunting situations so we try to find one that performs well at average distances, speeds, etc.  I have used the 250 grain TC Shockwave with excellent results.  Some shots were pass thrus, others were not.  Many experienced muzz shooters/deer hunters have said the 300 grain bullet is better and has much more likelyhood of complete pass thru (better blood trail if needed), but they have higher recoil.  Generally speaking the 250 Shockwave bullet in my 50 cal muzz gun is very accurate and has done a good job for me when I do my part.

Dave


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## GEORGIA-HAMMER64

I hunted all deer season with my muzzleloader killed 5 deer with it 3 doe's and 2 good bucks.I got complete pass throughs on all of them with 250 grain shockwaves and 100 grains of blackhorn 209.But there was no blood at all where they were standing when i shot them but after about 20 to 30 yards plenty of blood.Had no problem tracking them and there was a dead deer 30 yards from first spot of blood im satisfied with them.


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## Public Land Prowler

Got something to show you about how the 250gr T/C shockwaves penetrate..Out of my T/C Triumph with 150gr of pyrodex pellets..

Shot this 110# sow at 65yds..1/4 towards..Straight on shot...Entrance wound was between the center of the chest and right shoulder White arrow..







Close up pic..entrance is (red arrow),went under the shoulder,and entered the chest (yellow arrow)






Went through the entire body damaging the lungs,and top of heart,and came out of the abdomen just before going into the Left ham(aqua blue arrow),went into the left ham (purple  arrow),then the bullet hung up just under the hide after exiting the ham.Green arrow is pointing at bullet..So it went all the way from front right  to back left...4 1/2 foot of hog..  That's penetration..lol.. Hog went 40yds or so..maybe less...Thinks it's safe to say it will take out an elk.


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## Jim Thompson

dead piggie!


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## Public Land Prowler

Had a request for a close up of recovered bullet.Keep in mind it actually did not hit any bone except for a rib or 2 on the way in..I have seen them after they hit bone,and they flatten out a little more,but not like a Power Belt.This is the standard T/C shockwave,not the bonded,which would not expand as much as the original.











I'm going to see if I can find one of my shockwaves,that hit bone,and post it.


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## Public Land Prowler

Here is a 250gr T/C shockwave that I recovered out of a hog last season.Hit both front shoulders,and hung up on the hide.Hog was DRT.

The one from yesterday that didnt hit bone,and the one that hit solid,and expanded..






Front view






Back view..you can see the petals are wrapping around nicely.


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## Mtns2hunt

Davexx1 said:


> The terminal performance (expansion, exit, etc.) of a hunting bullet depends upon its construction, the speed it is traveling when it hits the animal, and what it encounters on and after impact.  Bullet manufacturers try to make a bullet that will perform well at a wide range of velocities and situations, but the truth is that no one bullet will perform perfectly at all speeds and situations.
> 
> A shot thru the shoulder, that hits the shoulder blade and heavy leg bone is less likely to exit the far side than a shot behind the shoulder where only ribs and internals are encountered.  Closer range shots at higher velocities with higher powered guns are usually more likely to produce exit wounds, but not always.  Muzz bullets are big, heavy, and slow compared to modern rifle calibers, may not produce the massive shock and tissue destruction of the modern and faster calibers, but they are effective if used with good judgement and within a conservative and effective range.
> 
> PB's are known to be constructed of soft lead with only a base seal which makes them easy to load in muzz gun, but because of the softer lead composition they have a reputation for quick over expansion, lack of penetration in some instances, break apart, etc.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that no one bullet is perfect for all game and hunting situations so we try to find one that performs well at average distances, speeds, etc.  I have used the 250 grain TC Shockwave with excellent results.  Some shots were pass thrus, others were not.  Many experienced muzz shooters/deer hunters have said the 300 grain bullet is better and has much more likelyhood of complete pass thru (better blood trail if needed), but they have higher recoil.  Generally speaking the 250 Shockwave bullet in my 50 cal muzz gun is very accurate and has done a good job for me when I do my part.
> 
> Dave



Excellent and accurate post IMO. 

I wish more individuals would realize that there are many variables to bullet performance and no one bullet will be perfect in every situation. I believe knowledge about the bullet you are shooting is important i.e. how it expands at different velocities, knowing a deer's anatomy and how the bullet will perform in different areas i.e. shoulder vs chest shot. 

I have killed many deer with the TC Shockwave some expand well (shoulder shot), some pencil through (chest or no contact with bone), others leave a big blood trail (low chest shot), high chest shot little or no blood trail for 20 - 30 yards.

Shot placement IMO is everything - I believe one should practice with their rifle to be proficient but should also use their preferred bullet enough to know how it performs: not just once or twice and then declare poor bullet performance.

Finally, I enjoy reading everyone's experiences about the shockwaves or Hornady SST"S please keep posting. I am happy to see the shockwaves are performing well on hogs. I have not had an opportunity to hunt them yet but I am looking forward to it.


Shooting a TC Pro Hunter 50 Cal, Leopold, Ultimate Slam scope, 200g shockwave (40 cal) with 110g BH and a 209 CCI primer.


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## icdedturkes

I will never shoot another shockwave/SST non bonded muzzleloader bullet on an animal again.. I know alot of folks love them but IME they are a ticking time bomb in terms of fragmentation in some cases and lack of expansion in others.


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## Mtns2hunt

icdedturkes said:


> I will never shoot another shockwave/SST non bonded muzzleloader bullet on an animal again.. I know alot of folks love them but IME they are a ticking time bomb in terms of fragmentation in some cases and lack of expansion in others.




Could you expand a bit on why you dislike the Shockwave so strongly? I have always felt that a pass through is good because it leaves a heavy blood trail. But that a bullet not passing through is also good because it is dumping all its energy inside a deer, even if there is some fragmentation. 

Are you currently using the bonded shockwave? If so what have been the results: does it perform better then the regular shockwave?

I respect all opinions and I am trying to learn from the experience of others.


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## Okie Hog

> According to t/c and hornady the shockwave and sst are the same.



Well, they ain't the same.  The SST has a soft plastic tip.  The Shockwave has a hard plastic tip.   Therein lies the problem; the Shockwave may not expand as quickly as the SST.  Under some conditions the Shockwave may not expand at all.  

i've killed about 25 deer and dozens of wild hogs using the SST and Shockwave bullets; never lost an animal:  Many  were bang flops.    

Unless i blew it and shot an animal in the guts, it died within 100 yards.  Few animals went over 50 yards after being hit.    The hog that is my avater went about 100 yards after being double lunged with a 250 grain SST.   Bullet broke ribs coming and going.  It was found under the skin on the off side.


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## Chase4556

I shot 2 deer this year with the Shockwaves(yellow tip). My buddy shot one with my rifle, same setup, and the yellow tips. 

All three deer left little to no blood trail for the first 20-30yds. Two of them went from one end of the deer to the other with a complete pass through, and the entrance and exit wounds looked exactly the same. The third was a double lung shot, and it appeared again that the bullet did not expand much. 

All three deer were recovered, but the lack of initial blood was very unsettling to me. For me, 20-30yds is a good distance to be trying to pick up a blood trail and makes me worry about loosing a deer.

With that said, halfway through the season I swapped to hornady xtp loads. I shot 2 more deer with those. One was a double lung pass through with TONS of blood. My inexperience with tracking(have always neck shot with centerfire hunting) led to me pushing the deer and I never recovered her. However, the blood trail she left made me wonder how on earth she still had any blood left. The second deer I shot was at about 200yds, low chest, and had blood instantly and the deer ran 20yds before piling up. 

The shockwaves are VERY accurate out of my CVA Wolf over two 50gr pellets of 777. I can get clover leaf groups if I sand bag the rifle and do my part. The XTPs shoot a slightly larger group, about 1.5in, at 100yds but the terminal performance is tremendously better than what I have experienced with the shockwaves. Plus, the XTPs are $10 for a box of 20. Hard to beat that.


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## Mtns2hunt

Okie Hog said:


> Well, they ain't the same.  The SST has a soft plastic tip.  The Shockwave has a hard plastic tip.   Therein lies the problem; the Shockwave may not expand as quickly as the SST.  Under some conditions the Shockwave may not expand at all.
> 
> i've killed about 25 deer and dozens of wild hogs using the SST and Shockwave bullets; never lost an animal:  Many  were bang flops.
> 
> Unless i blew it and shot an animal in the guts, it died within 100 yards.  Few animals went over 50 yards after being hit.    The hog that is my avater went about 100 yards after being double lunged with a 250 grain SST.   Bullet broke ribs coming and going.  It was found under the skin on the off side.



Sounds as if you have good experiences with the Shockwave and Hornady SST's. I agree that shot placement is very important along with knowledge of the animals anatomy to insure quick and humane kills.


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## dwinsor

I use the T/C shockwaves  if you use the yellow tip 250 grain bullet, use 100 gr and lower of powder.  If you use the Blue tip 250 grain bullet, use 100 gr or higher powder, the Blue tip is a bonded bullet.  Have never shot the 300 grain shockwave.


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## Mtns2hunt

I have never shot the 250 grain shockwaves: either in yellow or blue tips (I have shot the Hornady version). 

I have heard the blue tips (bonded) penetrate better then the yellow tips. Always thought that the blue tip is more suitable to hunting hogs as it does not take much to skewer a deer.

I am a bit surprised that you recommend less then 100 grains of powder for a 250 grain shockwave. But perhaps that is what your rifle prefers. 

I shoot a TC Pro hunter and it loves 110 grains of BH 209 powder behind a 200 grain (40 cal.) Shockwave. Accuracy is incredible although I am still trying to tighten groups by weighing charges.

The 200 grain with 110 grains of BH 209 is a deer hunters dream.


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