# Read this book, tell me what ya think?



## Phoelix (Apr 14, 2011)

Got an interesting book the other day at a yard sale, called "Heaven is for Real", and actually read it in under 3 hours...I would like a few of you guys to read it, if you already have'nt, and tell me what you think...It's about a little boy that actually "dies" in the operating room for only a few minutes, at a very young age (about 3). His parents are in another room, of coarse, but he tells them exactly what they were doing at the time (Dad was in a secluded room breaking down, crying, and Mom was in another room on a cell phone). Said he could see them as he left his body on the operating table, then the book goes on to describe incidents the child experienced, the people he met there that he did'nt even know (like his grandfather), and descriptions of heaven strait from the scriptures....Check it out, and share your thoughts...No surprises to me!


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## Phoelix (Apr 15, 2011)

Or not.......Hard to explain some of the things this 3 year old seen on his visit...Met his grandfather, his still born sister (that he was'nt even aware of) and described things in scripture to a tee. He also scrutinized all photos of Jesus, simply saying "No, that's not right" everytime his family asked if that was Jesus. Another little girl, quite the artist, had a similar experience, and did a painting of the Jesus she met, and he quickly pointed out that this painting WAS the Jesus that held him in his lap. 
   I simply can't see how a 3 year old boy could have an experience like this, and heaven NOT be real. You would have to read it to fully appreciate it....would like to hear other peoples explanations to this little fellas experience. Simply no other explanation.


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## stringmusic (Apr 15, 2011)

Sounds like a great read, I am in the middle of another book now, but I might check this one out afterwards!


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## atlashunter (May 1, 2011)

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Jesus has sea blue eyes and God is a really big guy that can fit the planet in his hand. You don't find it just a bit suspicious that this is coming from the child of a pastor? How many blue eyed middle easterners have you seen?


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## gtparts (May 2, 2011)

atlashunter said:
			
		

> Jesus has sea blue eyes and God is a really big guy that can fit the planet in his hand. You don't find it just a bit suspicious that this is coming from the child of a pastor? How many blue eyed middle easterners have you seen?



Suspicious? No. 
Surprising? Somewhat. 

After all, a four y.o. who can articulate things that occurred during his surgery; things that he could not know because they had never been discussed in his presence; identifying a relative that passed before his birth.... well, that is pretty amazing!

Blue eyes? Perhaps a matter of genetics? 
Being a recessive trait does not make blue eyes impossible, just unlikely. Even so, it is not impossible ... or entirely unknown.

Or, maybe the transformed, glorified Son of God DOES have blue eyes? Or, maybe we see, in Him, that which we most easily can relate to, particularly as children?

Are you suggesting that a four y.o. child could fabricate such deceitful stories, some of which could be subsequently verified (the stories about the sisters, for example)? 

Or, are you suggesting that a pastor would use a lie, manipulate his son, and fraudulently represent the package to further the Kingdom of God? 
If so, call him on it and prove your allegations.

The role of skeptic is an uncomfortable one.... like having one foot in one boat and the other foot in another boat, as they drift apart. One will continue to float and is "true". The second will sink and is "untrue", but you just can't be certain which is which.


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Are you suggesting that a four y.o. child could fabricate such deceitful stories, some of which could be subsequently verified (the stories about the sisters, for example)?
> 
> Or, are you suggesting that a pastor would use a lie, manipulate his son, and fraudulently represent the package to further the Kingdom of God?
> If so, call him on it and prove your allegations.



I'm suggesting that both are possible and both are more likely to be true than that the claims are true. The pastor has motive to lie and kids aren't above making up stories, especially when it garners them the kind of attention from family and others that this has. That he describes a blue eyed Jesus indicates that he more than likely is going off of western pictures of a blue eyed white Jesus and descriptions of God he was told in church of how big God is rather than that he had a real experience.


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## JFS (May 2, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> descriptions of God he was told in church of how big God is rather than that he had a real experience.




All together now, starts in C....


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## gtparts (May 2, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> I'm suggesting that both are possible and both are more likely to be true than that the claims are true. The pastor has motive to lie and kids aren't above making up stories, especially when it garners them the kind of attention from family and others that this has. That he describes a blue eyed Jesus indicates that he more than likely is going off of western pictures of a blue eyed white Jesus and descriptions of God he was told in church of how big God is rather than that he had a real experience.



That doesn't address the information he provided about what was happening while he was in surgery or his knowledge of his mother's previous conceptions.

Well?

The other suggestion, that the pastor lied, seems like an incredible stretch....... lying in order to further the truth. Kind of like cheating to win an award for Personal Integrity.


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## bullethead (May 2, 2011)

The mind is very powerful and it's limits are unknown. Plus, people lie.


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2011)

gtparts said:


> That doesn't address the information he provided about what was happening while he was in surgery or his knowledge of his mother's previous conceptions.
> 
> Well?



The kid before any of this happened had a preconception of what happens after death. The family had the same preconceptions of what can happen in these kind of scenarios. Not exactly far fetched to think that they might have asked the kid questions afterward or yes even made some of this up to sell a story. Happens all the time.





gtparts said:


> The other suggestion, that the pastor lied, seems like an incredible stretch....... lying in order to further the truth. Kind of like cheating to win an award for Personal Integrity.



Yeah because preachers never lie right? Are you serious? Somehow I doubt if the kid had claimed to have met Allah and his prophet Mohammed you would be very convinced and even less so if his father was a muslim cleric. Funny how you only have the blinders on when it is a story that lends credence to your own religion.


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## TripleXBullies (May 2, 2011)

The pastor is now selling this book... and likely has higher attendance at his church... cha-ching.


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## TripleXBullies (May 2, 2011)

My mind is powerful too.. Last night I put one of my dogs in her welping box.. I had a dream that she put her welping box up on some post in my basement... I also dreamed some crazy stuff when I was out for surgery last year. My mind with stress and I dream crazy stuff.


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## bullethead (May 2, 2011)

The BEST dreams I've ever had were when I was under anesthesia.


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## gtparts (May 2, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> The kid before any of this happened had a preconception of what happens after death. The family had the same preconceptions of what can happen in these kind of scenarios. Not exactly far fetched to think that they might have asked the kid questions afterward or yes even made some of this up to sell a story. Happens all the time.




Your skepticism is based on your preconceptions and personal prejudices







atlashunter said:


> Yeah because preachers never lie right? Are you serious? Somehow I doubt if the kid had claimed to have met Allah and his prophet Mohammed you would be very convinced and even less so if his father was a muslim cleric. Funny how you only have the blinders on when it is a story that lends credence to your own religion.



You suggest that I would not accept this out of hand and, of course, I would not. I would certainly expect the information to be somehow vetted. But the hypothetical you offered has not occurred, while the original story of this thread has occurred. 

I have the same reservations about Pope John Paul II's beatification miracle. I have no doubt that at some point someone will claim that while making supplication and petition to or through PJP II, that another miracle has happened and he will be accorded sainthood. I do not believe that after having entered the heavenly realm, those who have passed can or would be able to effect miracles or deserve credit for what God has done. (Just my opinion; not picking an argument.)

Considering the personal testimony on several news programs over the last year or so (I've seen two), of the father, mother, and young man, they certainly appear to be sincere and honest, as well as consistent while answering questions posed to them.

It is for each to accept it or doubt it. That is basically how the book presents it. It would be difficult to refute.


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2011)

gtparts said:


> Your skepticism is based on your preconceptions and personal prejudices



The only difference in my skepticism and yours is that I apply it consistently. You don't. Or do you believe every anecdotal account you hear from children and their adult coaches?




gtparts said:


> You suggest that I would not accept this out of hand and, of course, I would not. I would certainly expect the information to be somehow vetted. But the hypothetical you offered has not occurred, while the original story of this thread has occurred.



What vetting? You have no idea what went on between this kid and his parents behind closed doors. There is no story of this sort testifying of some other religion that you would find convincing. I can't disprove the story any more than you can prove it but what I can say is that the story is self serving for both the kid and his dad.

PT Barnum was right!


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## atlashunter (May 2, 2011)

Here's another interview. Jesus horse is white with rainbow colored hair and almost everybody there has wings. Of course he had to think about it for a second to remember if he had wings. Bit odd that this also never came to light until months after the event. Dad says he was really sick and as to how close to death we're not really sure. Yeah sounds solid. It's not like he couldn't have heard any of these things from other family members recounting the time at the hospital, or the miscarriage, no pics of pop would be in the house despite how close he was to dad.

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But... I guess if it comes from a kid it MUST be true!

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## pnome (May 3, 2011)

Read this book, tell me what you think....

http://www.amazon.com/Messages-Worl...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304437611&sr=1-1


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## JFS (May 3, 2011)

atlashunter said:


> Jesus horse is white with rainbow colored hair



No one would make that up.


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## TripleXBullies (May 3, 2011)

Unbelievable... Now if he had a 4 year old math proficiency and his dad was Steven Hawking.. MAYBE



pnome said:


> Read this book, tell me what you think....
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Messages-Worl...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304437611&sr=1-1


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## holton27596 (May 3, 2011)

I would have to say from the vast majority of preachers Ive known that the ones who would NOT lie to "further the truth" are rare in deed!


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