# 1911 Match Bushing and Barrel questions



## TripleXBullies (Jun 24, 2009)

Can anyone point me to a video of how to remove a match bushing? I can't seem to find one. 

My SA A1 has a match bushing and stock barrel. The barrel is a little worn where it shows through the ejection port. The SA is parked and I think it would look good with a SS barrel. I'd like a match barrel as well. Any recommendations?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

You remove it the same way you do any other bushing.  It may be a little tighter and require a bushing wrench, but it comes off the same way.

If you want true match grade accuracy, you can't just drop in a "match" barrel.  To do a barrel install correctly and get the improvement in accuracy you're wanting, the barrel has to be fit properly.  That means fitting the link, hood, lug engagement, and fitting an oversize bushing to that barrel.

As with pretty much everything else on a 1911, if it drops in, it's crap and you're wasting your money.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

Ok.. So I think I still want a new barrel, as the one I have is worn. So any old (or new rather) barrel will do?


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## EMC-GUN (Jun 25, 2009)

Get a Kart!


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> Ok.. So I think I still want a new barrel, as the one I have is worn.



Worn how?  Finish only, or is there actually wear to the rifling, lugs, etc.?



			
				TripleXBullies said:
			
		

> So any old (or new rather) barrel will do?



No, it still needs to be fit to your gun.  Otherwise you'll likely have a plethora of issues to contend with.



			
				EMC-GUN said:
			
		

> Get a Kart!


Excellent suggestion.  More specifically, if you want a new barrel and want to do it yourself, get a Kart EZ Fit.  It will come with a pre fit bushing, and instructions to help you fit the barrel correctly.  As long as you're somewhat mechanically inclined and take your time, it's not that difficult of a task.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

I put an AR lower together. Does that mean that I am fairly mechanically inclined? 

So any old full size barrel won't work right? What if it was taken from a GI A1?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> I put an AR lower together. Does that mean that I am fairly mechanically inclined?



Take your time and I'd imagine you won't have much trouble.  On the other hand, do you really want to put a $225 barrel into a $550 gun?  It's definitely a nice upgrade, but may not be worth it, depending on what you're wanting to achieve.



> So any old full size barrel won't work right? What if it was taken from a GI A1?



It may "work", but it certainly won't be right.  Timing will be off, lockup will be off, you'll see accelerated and uneven wear to both gun and barrel, the list goes on and on. The odds of a barrel that was fit for one gun dropping into another are about as good as me swearing off 1911's and carrying a Glock.


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## mike bell (Jun 25, 2009)

You got your Glock yet?   How many gov. issued 1911s do you think there were put out?   Those barrels came in crates and droped into gun by the thousands if not millions.  _Mil-spec_......


Awhile ago I built up a 1911 using a Norinco gun.  I used all Wilson Combat parts.  The barrel was fitted but not to tight as I wanted a shooter that worked because tight guns jam more.  It was the best shooting pistol Ive ever owned.  At 20 yards it shot a clover leaf one hole group from sand bags.


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

mike bell said:
			
		

> Those barrels came in crates and droped into gun by the thousands if not millions.



First of all, no they didn't.  Each manufacturer shipped fully fit and assembled weapons that had to pass an inspection process  before being sent out.  Barrels and other parts were however swapped between guns during maintenance, rebuilds, etc.  The difference is, military specifications called for much looser tolerances than those used by most manufacturers today, giving more leeway to "hot swapping".  There also wasn't much thought given to what that did to the weapon, as when one wore out it was scrapped and replaced.  That still didn't make them fit right.  I agreed that it would likely work, I said it wouldn't be right.



			
				mike bell said:
			
		

> tight guns jam more.



One of my favorite 1911 myths.  Tell that to the Les Baers I shoot and carry daily that most shooters will agree are the tightest 1911 on the market.  Besides, being fit "right" doesn't necessarily mean being fit "tight".


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## mike bell (Jun 25, 2009)

they didnt what?     We are talking about two different guns here.   Comparing a match gun to a military side arm is like compairing apples to oranges.


The military specifications are the same. The parts are made to one controlled print that is copied and sent to all venders under contract to manufacture those parts.  We made them to drop into any frame/slide.  

I understand that it aint "right"    and I agree.




> being fit "right" doesn't necessarily mean being fit "tight".


 I agree on that also.


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

Military specifications haven't changed, and for those manufacturers who produced military 1911's your statement is correct, they were all made the same, and tolerances were quite loose by design. 

 That's not the case anymore however. They're usually close, but not exact. Try putting a Taurus hammer into any other 1911 for example.  There are minor variances between modern commercial 1911 parts.  That's why I was saying you could do it but it wasnt a good idea.   

I think were actually on the same page, just going about from different directions.


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## mike bell (Jun 25, 2009)

yup we are pretty much on the same page....



> There are minor variances between modern commercial 1911 parts.



You would be suprised.  We still make them the same way and when we due contract work, they prints are within .002 normally.

Im making barrel bushings as we speak for a well known company.  They are almost idintical to the ones we make and sell for our selves, except for the OD is different by .001 only because when heat treated it slightly expands or so they claim..


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

Valid point, and not one I'm arguing. I've been speaking about parts in general, but since we're specifically on bushings, take a barrel bushing from Brown, one from Wilson, and one from EGW and tell me they'll all fit exactly the same in every 1911. Not gonna happen.  Now, some of these are designed to be "drop in" and some are designed oversize to be fit, but that just further illustrates the point. To fit right, they need to be fitted to the individual gun. 

Again, I think we're getting at the same point, we're just getting there from different sides.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

So what you're both trying to say is I COULD drop in any barrel, but it will likely be a little looser or tighter which may cause any sort of problems, or may not at all. If I am looking for increased accuracy, I shouldn't do it this way. 

So let's say I want a run of the mill barrel... Just a new one. Do I still NEED to have it fitted by a gun smith?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> Do I still NEED to have it fitted by a gun smith?



You can probably get by without it.  However, didn't you say you wanted to replace it because you were seeing some wear on the barrel hood?  The most likely issue you're going to see is accelerated and even excessive wear on both the new barrel and the gun.  Other issues could range from reliability problems and poor accuracy to as extreme as a dangerous weapon if there serious enough issues with lockup.

Is there something wrong with the current barrel?  If you just want a stainless look there are several companies out there that do polishing on barrels and other parts.  That may be a better option and probably no more expensive.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

It's really just the wear on the hood that I don't like to look at, so I have to assume there is ware on the rifling also. I thought I needed a wrench to take it out, so I haven't taken it out to inspect it yet. 

Will a poor/worn barrel have notches or nicks in the rifling?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

Wear on the hood isn't anything to worry about, and if you replace the barrel every you see wear there, you're going to go through a lot of barrels.

As for the bore, it takes a LOT of rounds to wear out a barrel.  I have several 1911's with over 10,000 rounds through them with no barrel issues, and two with over 20,000.

Nicks in the rifling would be odd, but pits aren't uncommon if the weapon hasn't been properly maintained.


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## mike bell (Jun 25, 2009)

ditto on what he said,

But I think you need to figure out exactly what you want first.  Do you really want a new barrel ?  I high polish the part of the barrel you are talking about. It just looks better to me.  


Think of it like when you had your first car.  Are you going to fix it up your self a little at a time, or are you going to save up and go all out by sending it to the pro shop for a new race motor.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

I prefer getting the best stuff in the first place... lol... I just can't at this moment.

Ok, so how do I high polish the barrel?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm sure you could Google techniques on polishing it, sounds like mike bell could help as well.  You could also talk to fastgun1962, I believe he does it for a living.

Personally, I don't worry about wear.  My guns are tools, they get used and they show it. I tried to get a pic of normal wear on the barrel hood.  Tough to get it to show in a pic, but you can see it.

This is my daily carry, it's at about 4,000 rounds give or take.  I'd consider this to be very typical, and absolutely nothing to worry about.  Every barrel is going to show wear. It happens.


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## mike bell (Jun 25, 2009)

if you dont have access to a buffer...you can do it by hand with some emory cloth.(2 inch wide sand paper on a roll)  Shoe shine it till you see yourself  when you look at it. Start with 280 grit if its a rough finish and work your way up.  320 grit can do it if you use it till it wears out.  sometimes I'll use 500 or 600 grit, but its not really needed. But it does look purdy

hey Vhinch good picture.   thats its right there

Tomorrow I'll post a picture of a "project gun" I got where the the barrel is not fitted right


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

mike bell said:


> hey Vhinch good picture.   thats probly about a 320 finish



Can't take credit for the finish.  Came that way from the factory.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

I guess mine is like that, but it's blued.. Won't I rub all of the blueing off if I do that?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> Won't I rub all of the blueing off if I do that?



Yes.  It's also going to start showing wear again the first time it's fired after you polish it.  No way to keep them perfect unless you don't use them.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

Yeah.

I don't shoot often. I carry anywhere I go but work, but don't have a lot of time to shoot for fun.. It's not like I need a match barrel and bushing for a match or anything. I haven't shot either of the two I have at all yet.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

You can just barely see the wear here.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

One more thing for you two 1911 fellas... How do I tell what # the spring is?


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

You can't really tell, but it's probably a 16#.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

Well I have 2.. that are supposedly different.


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## VHinch (Jun 25, 2009)

The 2 standard weights for a full size gun are 16# and 18.5#.  Either one is fine, though I personally prefer the 16.  They should be replaced about every 2500 rounds or so.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 25, 2009)

The 18.5# being stiffer which would reduce recoil, but make the action tighter?


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## mike bell (Jun 26, 2009)

By action tighter are you asking about lock up or stiffer cycling?

heavy springs will increase the stiffness and on weak or reduced loads cause problems also.

Does your blued barrel look like this?







heres a project gun I have. I got the gun because the previous owner/gunsmithing noob failed to properly fit the barrel.  I havent done anything to it as of yet. But Im getting the urge to swap/scrap out the 10mm barrel for a 45acp.
 Heres the gun, Para Ord. frame, Colt Combat Commander slide, threaded Clark 10mm ramped barrel, some big stupid compensator,  ambi safety, ext slide stop beaver tail grip safety, Meprolights sights, full length guide rod.

The gun shoots, but the firing pin strikes are off center (clue #1)

The slide is not fully in battery as seen in the picture (clue #2)





The guy was shooting this thing! 

One of these days I'll buy a new link and fix'er up.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 26, 2009)

I mean stiffer cycling that may result in jams I guess, maybe not? I'm a noob at these obviously.

Yes, my barrel looks something like that. 

Is that frame a full size with a commander barrel and slide?


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## VHinch (Jun 26, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> I mean stiffer cycling that may result in jams I guess, maybe not? I'm a noob at these obviously.



Shooting normal loads, you won't see a difference in the 16lb and 18.5lb springs as far as reliability goes.  The lighter the load goes, the lighter the recoil spring needs to go.


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## mike bell (Jun 26, 2009)

yea I think the guy cut the frame length down for the commander slide


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't think you have to cut them... but what do I know. It just doesn't fit right like you can see in that pic.

Thanks guys for all of your help. I consider myself a little bit more knowledgeable on 1911's now.


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## VHinch (Jun 26, 2009)

TripleXBullies said:


> I don't think you have to cut them


If you want to put a commander length slide on a government frame and do it the right way, there is some cutting to do, mainly on the rails and dustcover.  It can be done, there's just no good reason to do it when real commander frames are readily available.



TripleXBullies said:


> It just doesn't fit right like you can see in that pic.



The fit issue you're seeing there has nothing to do with the frame.  As mike bell mentioned, it's an issue with the barrel fit, and a good example of one thing that can happen when you drop a barrel in and don't fit it correctly.


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## TripleXBullies (Jun 26, 2009)

Barrel LENGTH causes that? Or barrel diameter?


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## VHinch (Jun 26, 2009)

Combination of things.  Hood length and lug engagment are the key factors.

Fitting a barrel doesn't have anything to do with diameter, you'd have to have a seriously out of spec barrel for than to be a consideration, and if it was that bad you wouldn't want it anyway.  If you want a tight barrel to bushing engagement you fit the bushing to the barrel, not the other way around.


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