# Ave Maris Stella



## gordon 2 (Dec 22, 2010)

This is a prayer that is most fitting at Christmas time, I believe. It is the National Anthem of my culture. It is  also a prayer to Mary, but not in the way you might think, in that it really praises God and places, praises motherhood and the faith of a woman, to a wonderful spiritual hight. Mothers are highly esteemed in my culture and in many ways the culture is matriarcal. For those who have a difficulty in seeing that catholics do not worship Mary, although she is in our prayers, my hope is that if you can get into the "cuture" of this song, of this prayer, you will be far better for it and your assessment might change. Note that as we indentify with God our Father, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Mary is the spritual mother of us all. It is to her table, to her kitchen and to her arms that Jesus was and all of us are consoled and encouraged day in, day out.

This  humble prayer is said to have been written in the 9th century. You will be able to read and understand it due to latin/english translation provided. My people sing it in latin to this day ( the first verse only)... Merry Christmas.





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Now this is sort of a postcard of what the men do to earn their living where I live. The sea is the the economic engine of the local communities here. Note the "cajun" accents...LOL These guys are all locals... If you notice the yellow star on the blue,white and red standard, well that is there due to the Prayer Ave Maris Stella. That flag is our cultural flag...it indicates our link to our european heritage in the french flag and the star, our indentity as christians.

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## vanguard1 (Dec 22, 2010)

"Mary is the spritual mother of us all. It is to her table, to her kitchen and to her arms that Jesus was and all of us are consoled and encouraged day in, day out"


to you maybe but not to me, mary is not more specical than anyone else, we must not place her any higher than anyone else, she was a vessel that God used just like he uses people everyday on earth.


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## OntheFlyTyer (Dec 22, 2010)

Nice post Gordon



vanguard1 said:


> "Mary is the spritual mother of us all. It is to her table, to her kitchen and to her arms that Jesus was and all of us are consoled and encouraged day in, day out"
> 
> 
> to you maybe but not to me, Mary is not more specical than anyone else, we must not place her any higher than anyone else, she was a vessel that God used just like he uses people everyday on earth.



I for one would not be willing to tell Christ, that His Mother was nothing special, or just some empty bucket God had lying around. 

I guess you wouldn't say that about your own either would you? 

Maybe you would.

Do that for her at Christmas, "Hi Mom, you're nothing special, no more important to me then, the mailman or the dog catcher."


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## formula1 (Dec 22, 2010)

*Re:*

I appreciate Mary as who she is, the vessel that God chose to birth our Savior Christ Jesus.  It is inherently obvious that she found much favor with God and she deserves our deepest respect as the instrument of the Father she became. She is truly blessed among women.

But God and God alone is who we must worship and serve and I ask anyone to read these very words of Mary and see if you can come to any other conclusion:

Luke 1
46 And Mary said: “ My soul magnifies the Lord, 
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 
48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; 
 For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 
49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name. 
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him From generation to generation. 
51 He has shown strength with His arm;  He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. 
52 He has put down the mighty from their thrones, And exalted the lowly. 
53 He has filled the hungry with good things, And the rich He has sent away empty. 
54 He has helped His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy, 
55 As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.


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## vanguard1 (Dec 22, 2010)

OntheFlyTyer said:


> Nice post Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hey do not twist what i said, I SAID SHE IS NO MORE SPECIAL THAN ANYONE ELSE.
the BIBLE SAYS she was blessed among women. and if you read deuteronomy 28:1-14 you will see everyone that obeys GOD is blessed. i think she is ashamed at the way people put her above others.


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## OntheFlyTyer (Dec 22, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> hey do not twist what i said, I SAID SHE IS NO MORE SPECIAL THAN ANYONE ELSE.
> the BIBLE SAYS she was blessed among women. and if you read deuteronomy 28:1-14 you will see everyone that obeys GOD is blessed.



Mary was especially blessed by God, she was given the honor of being the Mother of Mercy.

She was honored by her Son; He did perform His first miracle at her behest.



vanguard1 said:


> i think she is ashamed at the way people put her above others.



I thought you said those who are in Heaven don't care what goes on here?

You change your mind about that one?


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## Big7 (Dec 22, 2010)

OntheFlyTyer said:


> Mary was especially blessed by God, she was given the honor of being the Mother of Mercy.
> 
> She was honored by her Son; He did perform His first miracle at her behest.
> 
> ...



He's _REALLY_ bad about that..


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## Big7 (Dec 22, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> hey do not twist what i said, _I SAID SHE IS NO MORE SPECIAL THAN ANYONE ELSE._
> the BIBLE SAYS she was blessed among women. and if you read deuteronomy 28:1-14 you will see everyone that obeys GOD is blessed. i think she is ashamed at the way people put her above others.


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## gordon 2 (Dec 22, 2010)

Play nice please... and ....

I have always found the description of the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth in the first chapter of  Luke very interesting. It reminds me of a description that we could perhaps call charismatic today.

Luke 1: 41 And it occurred that when Elizableth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit.

42.And she cried out with a loud cry, and then exclaimed, Blessed above all other women are you! And Blessed is the fruit of your womb!

43. And how be granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How could Elizabeth know that Mary was pregnant...? How could Elizabeth know that Mary was to be the mother of her Lord? We know that Zachariah, Elizabeth's husband was a priest. We know that Mary stayed three months with Elizabeth. We know that Zachariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied( Luke 1: 67) that God had indeed come and provided "deliverance  and redeption to his people" 68.
And of course we are told that the angle Gabriel spoke with  Mary about God's will and that she agreed.

All this chapter reminds me, as I have said, of charismatic people who know to get filled with the Spirit, who do not flinch that an angel of the Lord informs them of Good News. I have often wondered what sect these people belonged to that made them so favored of God?


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## OntheFlyTyer (Dec 22, 2010)

gordon 2 said:


> Play nice please...



In deference to my Acadian brother, I will promise to play nice.


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## vanguard1 (Dec 23, 2010)

OntheFlyTyer said:


> Mary was especially blessed by God, she was given the honor of being the Mother of Mercy.
> 
> She was honored by her Son; He did perform His first miracle at her behest.
> 
> ...



well let me re word that then for you ,( IF SHE KNOWS.)    and what does it prove that he did his first miracle at her request? see that is the whole problem, when you have a teaching that is not founded on the word of God only, instead of building your faith around the bible you try to build the bible around your faith. Mary was a good person and a loving lady, but to build statues of her is against Gods command.

Exodus 20:4 (King James Version)


 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

mary would be against anything that took away glory from Jesus and put it on someone else .

Revelation 22:8-9 (King James Version)

 8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 

 9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.


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## Tim L (Dec 23, 2010)

gordon 2 said:


> This is a prayer that is most fitting at Christmas time, I believe. It is the National Anthem of my culture. It is  also a prayer to Mary, but not in the way you might think, in that it really praises God and places, praises motherhood and the faith of a woman, to a wonderful spiritual hight. Mothers are highly esteemed in my culture and in many ways the culture is matriarcal. For those who have a difficulty in seeing that catholics do not worship Mary, although she is in our prayers, my hope is that if you can get into the "cuture" of this song, of this prayer, you will be far better for it and your assessment might change. Note that as we indentify with God our Father, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Mary is the spritual mother of us all. It is to her table, to her kitchen and to her arms that Jesus was and all of us are consoled and encouraged day in, day out.
> 
> This  humble prayer is said to have been written in the 9th century. You will be able to read and understand it due to latin/english translation provided. My people sing it in latin to this day ( the first verse only)... Merry Christmas.
> 
> ...



Almost makes me want to go to midnight mass over at Prince of Peace rather than our midnight communion service..


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## vanguard1 (Dec 23, 2010)

Rouster said:


> Almost makes me want to go to midnight mass over at Prince of Peace rather than our midnight communion service..



wow.


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## jason4445 (Dec 23, 2010)

It has always been a shame and detriment to Protestantism that they shoved Mary back to where she is just a mention in the Christmas Story, and again briefly mentioned at Jesus grave.  In fact she wrote a Gospel which was rejected for Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as well was about 130 others.  In importance she is just under Jesus and she was as important as Paul in spreading Christianity in the early days.

Another thing is her immaculate conception is the most compelling idea in all the Bible to argue against abortion, but many Protestants hate any Catholic doctrines so much they refuse to use it as such.


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## Disciple1st (Dec 23, 2010)

Mary was a chosen vessel to carry the savior of the world and she gave birth to him as an example to all humans that birth is a gift from God. His mother had a task as we all do to serve God as he calls and when he calls. Now hers was a greater task than I have ever been given but she said yes to the same God that all Christians must serve. None greater than the one she carried and bore, she is not to be placed as equal or higher than Christ. God the father, holy spirit, and Christ (the trinity if you will) must be held as almighty and all powerful in order for the birth, death, and resurrection of Christ to be what God intended it to be. A way for all our sins to be paid in full as we cant possibly pay them or clean ourselves up only the blood of Christ not Mary, not Moses, nor any other name only Christ our lord.


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