# CCI 209M & Federal 209A



## tmarchant87 (Aug 5, 2014)

I have searched high and low for CCI and Federal shot shell primers for my CVA. I use Blackhorn 209 and that is the recommended primer. Everywhere I look is out of stock or they just dont carry it. Any Ideas where it can be found?


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## BarnesAddict (Aug 5, 2014)

What I would recommend is, if you know someplace that does sell them, camp out there until it gets there.  You're not the only one having a hard time.

I find a case every once in awhile and I snatch the case right up.


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## trial&error (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm not using the recommended brand of primer, and it still goes boom.


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## Nannyman (Aug 6, 2014)

Do they have any Fiocchi or Cheddite primers. Not the brands you listed but better than ML primers.


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## tmarchant87 (Aug 6, 2014)

All I have seen around Tallahassee are Winchester shot shell primers.


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## shdw633 (Aug 6, 2014)

Cabelas has the Federal in stock, I just don't need 1000 primers. 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Federal-Shotgun-Primers/741167.uts


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## harryrichdawg (Aug 6, 2014)

If you were closer, I've got all of the above on my reloading shelf.


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## tmarchant87 (Aug 6, 2014)

I may order the federals from cabelas. I just hate to pay the $20 surcharge for hazardous shipping.


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## shdw633 (Aug 6, 2014)

tmarchant87 said:


> I may order the federals from cabelas. I just hate to pay the $20 surcharge for hazardous shipping.



That is what I am having a hard time swallowing!!  I could live with the price, it's the shipping and hazard charge I can't seem to stomach.  I am going out this weekend to a couple of shops to see if I can find some around Orlando.


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## BarnesAddict (Aug 6, 2014)

It happens every year around here.  Once the season gets really close, hunters are scrambling all over trying to find primers.  I keep telling the guys, BUY THEM NOW, when ever you find them.  You may not need 1,000 primers but, the day before the season and you have none, that shipping and HAZMAT fee will seem trivial.

I know guys that will end up spending $150 in gas just running around looking for them, only to come up short and ask to buy a box of mine.  I NEVER SELL A BOX OF PRIMERS.  I'll give them a box, with the understanding that when they find a box, they replace it.  Have yet to get burned..........


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## Chase4556 (Aug 6, 2014)

I have been using the winchester blue box primers with BH209... worked fine for me. The winchester 777 primers however, caused hang fires. 

These work great:
http://www.basspro.com/Winchester-209-Primers-for-Shotshells/product/35469/

So do these:
http://www.basspro.com/Remington-Kleanbore-209-Primers/product/68711/


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## shdw633 (Aug 6, 2014)

Chase4556 said:


> I have been using the winchester blue box primers with BH209... worked fine for me. The winchester 777 primers however, caused hang fires.
> 
> These work great:
> http://www.basspro.com/Winchester-209-Primers-for-Shotshells/product/35469/
> ...



The buckhorn 209 website explicitly states not to use those Remington Kleanbore 209 that you have listed on your second link.


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## Nannyman (Aug 6, 2014)

Talk to your local shop. They should be ordering ML powder products. They require Haz Mat fee. Have them order your primers at that time. No extra charge.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 7, 2014)

shdw633 said:


> The buckhorn 209 website explicitly states not to use those Remington Kleanbore 209 that you have listed on your second link.



" DO NOT use 209 muzzleloading primers such as Winchester Triple 7, Remington Kleenbore, Federal Fusion, or CCI In-Line MZL."

That is fine and dandy, I'm just saying what works for me. The Winchester Triple 7s do not work, and I would assume the hang fire issue is why they are on this list. The kleanbore primers work great for me though.


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## BarnesAddict (Aug 7, 2014)

Regular WIN209 primers will work and ignite BH209.

However...... if you intend to hunt someplace cold, I highly recommend the CCI209M or the Federal 209A.


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## Nannyman (Aug 7, 2014)

Chase4556 said:


> " DO NOT use 209 muzzleloading primers such as Winchester Triple 7, Remington Kleenbore, Federal Fusion, or CCI In-Line MZL."
> 
> That is fine and dandy, I'm just saying what works for me. The Winchester Triple 7s do not work, and I would assume the hang fire issue is why they are on this list. The kleanbore primers work great for me though.



I know what this is gonna sound like and I mean no disrespect. Hear goes. 
I am as much a "Redneck" as many. At some point in life you need to do some things right. Especially when it comes to firearms. BH209 is very good stuff. You need to use the proper primer. 
"Duh, ______ works for me" is just foolish. 
I do a fair amount of custom loading. Shortcuts are dangerous. Don't do it. 

JD


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## Chase4556 (Aug 7, 2014)

Nannyman said:


> I know what this is gonna sound like and I mean no disrespect. Hear goes.
> I am as much a "Redneck" as many. At some point in life you need to do some things right. Especially when it comes to firearms. BH209 is very good stuff. You need to use the proper primer.
> "Duh, ______ works for me" is just foolish.
> I do a fair amount of custom loading. Shortcuts are dangerous. Don't do it.
> ...



I said I use regular winchester 209 primers, but that the kleenbore primers have worked for me in the past. The winchester 777 did not. 

Maybe I am just ignorant here, but what danger is present from using a certain primer? Its a 209 primer. Without knowing any better, I would say the Muzzleloader specific primers are not as hot as a regular 209 primer, and that is probably what causes the hang fires with BH209 and why they say to not use them.

So, with that possibly being the case, what danger is present in using a primer that is arguably less dangerous than the primer that is reccomended? Other than a hang fire, which could cause you to miss your target. 

Not being rude, just honestly asking what you mean by "Shortcuts are dangerous" and "At some point in life you need to do some things right" in regards to using a Kleenbore 209 primer, as opposed to a Federal 209a.


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## BarnesAddict (Aug 8, 2014)

Chase4556 said:


> I said I use regular winchester 209 primers, but that the kleenbore primers have worked for me in the past. The winchester 777 did not.  Maybe I am just ignorant here, but what danger is present from using a certain primer? Its a 209 primer. Without knowing any better, I would say the Muzzleloader specific primers are not as hot as a regular 209 primer, and that is probably what causes the hang fires with BH209 and why they say to not use them.
> So, with that possibly being the case, what danger is present in using a primer that is arguably less dangerous than the primer that is reccomended? Other than a hang fire, which could cause you to miss your target.  Not being rude, just honestly asking what you mean by "Shortcuts are dangerous" and "At some point in life you need to do some things right" in regards to using a Kleenbore 209 primer, as opposed to a Federal 209a.



Magnum 209 primers have much more pressure than designated muzzleloader primers, as do regular strength 209 shotgun primers.  Designated muzzleloader primers were developed to reduce the pressures created when shooting pellets, which eliminated the movement of the pellets and bullet in the barrel prior to complete and total ignition, improving accuracy.  The properties of BH209 require more pressure to instantly ignite it, while BH209 should also be packed TIGHT by the bullet.  Although some regular shotgun 209 primers will sufficiently ignite BH209, some may not 100% of the time.  Thus the reasons stated by the manufacturer of BH209, use the MAGNUM PRIMERS, such as the CCI209M or the Federal 209A.

Hang fires are more than just a possible miss of the target or game.  They are dangerous, with many well meaning muzzleloader shooters injuring or worse, themselves or others.  They should be avoided at all costs.  Certainly if the manufacturer of the propellant says use magnum primers, that's what should be used.


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## shdw633 (Aug 9, 2014)

I just got back from talking with a gentleman that owns a muzzleloader gun store in Orlando and has been dealing specifically with them for over 35 years.  I posed this very question to him and he agrees with Chase4556 and uses Winchester and Remington Kleenbores himself and has the pictures and wall hangings to back up what he says.  He only muzzleloader hunts with an Encore and he does it in Georgia, Alabama, Illinois and the Carolinas and has never had a hang fire or problem with those primers.  He went on to say he has had problems with the shotgun primers because they actually launch the load before all the powder is burned.  He indicated he was more accurate and had less troubles with the Winchester and Kleenbores than any other primer made and that he runs tests regularly from his shop, plus his experiences in the field before he comes to any of his conclusions.  Just passing that on, as for myself, I am going with the Winchesters as I already have them and may try the Kleenbores as I can get them easily at Bass Pro.


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## BarnesAddict (Aug 9, 2014)

shdw633 said:


> I just got back from talking with a gentleman that owns a muzzleloader gun store in Orlando and has been dealing specifically with them for over 35 years.  I posed this very question to him and he agrees with Chase4556 and uses Winchester and Remington Kleenbores himself and has the pictures and wall hangings to back up what he says.  He only muzzleloader hunts with an Encore and he does it in Georgia, Alabama, Illinois and the Carolinas and has never had a hang fire or problem with those primers.  He went on to say he has had problems with the shotgun primers because they actually launch the load before all the powder is burned.  He indicated he was more accurate and had less troubles with the Winchester and Kleenbores than any other primer made and that he runs tests regularly from his shop, plus his experiences in the field before he comes to any of his conclusions.  Just passing that on, as for myself, I am going with the Winchesters as I already have them and may try the Kleenbores as I can get them easily at Bass Pro.



Noticing in your post, no mention of him shooting BH209.  If he's shooting other propellants, that's a fair assumption.  However, right from the manufacturer

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/primers/


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## Chase4556 (Aug 9, 2014)

BarnesAddict said:


> Noticing in your post, no mention of him shooting BH209.  If he's shooting other propellants, that's a fair assumption.  However, right from the manufacturer
> 
> http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/primers/



Yeah, but its hard to argue with results.


Again, I dont suggest the Winchester Triple 7 primers, they didnt work so well.


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## shdw633 (Aug 9, 2014)

BarnesAddict said:


> Noticing in your post, no mention of him shooting BH209.  If he's shooting other propellants, that's a fair assumption.  However, right from the manufacturer
> 
> http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/primers/



My apologies, I just assumed that we knew that we were talking about blackhorn 209 and the primers needed to be used for it as that is what we were discussing on this thread.  That is all he uses is Blackhorn 209.  Everyone can use what the want but I've been looking all over the place on the internet and in the Orlando stores and the only place I found it was at Cabelas and I'm not paying nearly $70 when I have an expert in the field telling me I can use Winchester and Remington Kleenbore primers and they will work just fine and I can find them anywhere for less than $10.  But that is just me.


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## Nannyman (Aug 9, 2014)

It would be my expectation that the manufacturer would be most expert. There is a reason they have made these recommendations. 
A guy who has gone against those expert recommendations for all that time is just lucky. I like being lucky but not that kind luck.


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## The Longhunter (Aug 13, 2014)

If you are near a skeet club, contact them.  A lot of them order components for their members (no haz mat), or keep some in stock, or can put you in touch with a member who has some. A lot of skeet shooters buy primers 10,000 at a time, so they might could spare a box or two.


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## tmarchant87 (Aug 19, 2014)

*found some*

I was driving back from Tampa this weekend and stopped at the Gander Mountain outside Ocala. Had all the federal 209A primers I would need for the next few years and then some.


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## shdw633 (Aug 19, 2014)

And yet the Gander Mountain in Lake Mary didn't have any???  I went with the Winchester primers this weekend while sighting in my new scope and trying the Blackhorn 209 for the first time.  I loved all of them!!  The knight fired off well every time, I had no issues with accuracy or consistency and am pleased with the outcome.  I won't have a problem using the Winchester primers this year.


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## dwinsor (Aug 19, 2014)

I have used winchester primers since 1975 shotgun shells and Muzzleloaders, never had one issue with them.


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