# Change is coming!!



## mallardsx2 (Dec 21, 2020)

A little reputable birdy told me that there are changes coming. 

Not what I hoped for. But its a start.

Thank god. 

More to follow.


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## Duff (Dec 21, 2020)




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## ucfireman (Dec 21, 2020)

You're a big ole tease


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## deerpoacher1970 (Dec 21, 2020)

We don't need any changes in regulation just better habitat and less predators.


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Dec 21, 2020)

I believe we are getting the season moved back a hair, a lowering of the limit, and no more jake kills but who knows?


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## northgeorgiasportsman (Dec 21, 2020)

Don't be a tease.  Spill the beans.


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## twoheartedale (Dec 21, 2020)

It will be 2022 season.


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## 1eyefishing (Dec 21, 2020)

Nothing can stop what is going to happen. 
 Nothing.


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## Ratrzcer1991 (Dec 21, 2020)

.


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## Kwaksmoka (Dec 22, 2020)

This should be interesting!


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## Timber1 (Dec 25, 2020)

If they only want us to kill 3 gobblers why do they put 10 shells in a box?


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## deerpoacher1970 (Dec 25, 2020)

Timber you are buying the wrong box,your suppose to buy them high dollar boxes of 5 that will fill your  shotgun up now that they have changed the law and you don't have to have a plug.


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## six (Dec 25, 2020)

Timber1 said:


> If they only want us to kill 3 gobblers why do they put 10 shells in a box?


For people like me, er, I mean my buddy.  He has been known to shoot 3 or 4 times at the same turkey.


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## Buckman18 (Dec 25, 2020)

Folks be campaigning for season and bag limit changes that'll have a net 0% impact on their turkey population. 

Habitat improvements and predator control are the only tickets to more turkeys.


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## lampern (Dec 25, 2020)

Not what turkey biologists in any state will tell you.

Spring season timing and length absolutely affect turkey populations.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Dec 25, 2020)

All they are going to do is screw our turkey hunting up.


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## antharper (Dec 25, 2020)

Buckman18 said:


> Folks be campaigning for season and bag limit changes that'll have a net 0% impact on their turkey population.
> 
> Habitat improvements and predator control are the only tickets to more turkeys.


I truly believe this , I know the piece of property that I have that I can control the habitat and predators always has turkeys . Actually seen about 20 this afternoon , they were enjoying digging in my chufa patch . Actually I think they were doing it to try to get warm


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## Buckman18 (Dec 25, 2020)

lampern said:


> Not what turkey biologists in any state will tell you.
> 
> Spring season timing and length absolutely affect turkey populations.



Georgia's turkey season dates have been the same for decades. There are fewer turkey hunters today in Georgia than 20 years ago. If the turkey season dates were the issue, turkeys would've been in trouble back in the 80's.

Georgia also has 1000's and 1000's of acres in designated wilderness that NEVER sees a turkey hunter. Turkey populations are no different inside the wilderness vs the areas surrounding the wilderness.  If hunter impact were a primary issue, the wilderness acres would be crawling with more turkey.

Poult recruitment is the issue. In the 80's there were 3 and 4 poults per hen. In the 2010's it floated between 1.1-1.5, if my memory serves correctly.

Poult/Egg predation are the turkey problems. Hunter impact is not. The current trend with some of the biologists will be proved wrong in the future, in my opinion.


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## strothershwacker (Dec 26, 2020)

I first turkey hunted in the 90s. Hunted a farm that was 1700 acres. A few big hardwood ridges and cattle pastures in the bottoms. All of the pine had been logged out over a slow spell of bout 8 years. The logged stuff was an obstacle course of limbs, tree tops and briers. (Great nesting). The dried cow patties where a buggy treat to the turkeys. Fenced off clover chocked hayfield here and there. The owner had unintentionally created what I believe to be the best turkey habitat that can be held in north Georgia. If I told you the number of birds I've seen in one day you would not believe me. I've not stepped foot on that place in over 20 years. Wonder what it's like now. You could ride down the roads round here in those days and see flocks in every field. There wasn't that many before then and theres not that many now. Why where there so many in the mid to late 90s?


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## Thunder Head (Dec 26, 2020)

My county was the same in the late 90s early 2000s. Big flocks in lots of fields around here. Most of those fields dont have any turkeys in them these days.

I can tell you this. Our population crashed. It was not gradual. It happend in 2-3 years. Over time its gotten even worse.

 Habitat is not an issue in most of the county.

Predators may be holding them down now. We didnt get here because of them though.


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## Resica (Dec 26, 2020)

Happened here too. Same time frame. The bubble burst.


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## lampern (Dec 26, 2020)

I can't speak to why changes are being made in Georgia or if they are necessary but its a fact that changing season timing and length can have a positive effect on the turkey population.

More than just habitat management and trapping, which are impractical or not allowed in some areas.


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## Nicodemus (Dec 26, 2020)

Best thing that could happen to turkeys is for coon and possum fur prices to go back up.


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## tr21 (Dec 26, 2020)

Nicodemus said:


> Best thing that could happen to turkeys is for coon and possum fur prices to go back up.


and armadillo shell's to become collector items !


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## Nicodemus (Dec 26, 2020)

tr21 said:


> and armadillo shell's to become collector items !




I don`t think dillers have that much of an impact on the eggs. At least I haven`t found any proof of it. Big oak snakes do a number on them and biddies though.


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## NCHillbilly (Dec 26, 2020)

I will say that our season doesn't open until mid-April here, with a two-bird limit, and I see flocks of 50-100 pretty regular here.


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## XIronheadX (Dec 26, 2020)

No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to mess up a good thing. They just need to hire some gigolo gobblers, and kill all the blow up turkeys.


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## antharper (Dec 26, 2020)

Thunder Head said:


> My county was the same in the late 90s early 2000s. Big flocks in lots of fields around here. Most of those fields dont have any turkeys in them these days.
> 
> I can tell you this. Our population crashed. It was not gradual. It happend in 2-3 years. Over time its gotten even worse.
> 
> ...


I’m gonna say not near as many coyotes , and all predators were kept in check by trappers , 15-20 years ago you could sale a Coon hide for $20 and $50-$75 for bobcat and fox . Now there not worth a 22 bullet . I’m sure habitat is a problem in some areas but a lot is the same as it was then . Raccoon and opossum are probably the number 1 threat to nest , not just turkey , quail also.


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## antharper (Dec 26, 2020)

NCHillbilly said:


> I will say that our season doesn't open until mid-April here, with a two-bird limit, and I see flocks of 50-100 pretty regular here.


If this is the plan in Ga I hope I’m wrong and it helps


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## Thunder Head (Dec 27, 2020)

We had coyotes county wide by 1995.

I moved here in 1985. I have never known anyone who trapped for fur.

Like i said predators did not make us loose 70% of our turkeys in 2-3 years. Its quite possible they are keeping it from rebounding.

If they biologist say we need to move the dates. Im willing to give it a shot. They could always move it back if it proves ineffective.


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## Timber1 (Dec 27, 2020)

Yep, all the easy birds have been killed. Now you will actually have to go hunt them.


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## Whit90 (Dec 27, 2020)

Oughta be interesting.


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## glynr329 (Dec 27, 2020)

Up until 3 or 4 years ago I had plenty of turkey. Now you can’t find a bird and it is not habitat. Habitat is better than ever. Have plenty of yotes  and not sure if armadillos has anything to do with it but plenty of those too.


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## 1eyefishing (Dec 27, 2020)

glynr329 said:


> Up until 3 or 4 years ago I had plenty of turkey. Now you can’t find a bird and it is not habitat. Habitat is better than ever. Have plenty of totes and not sure if armadillos has anything to do with it but plenty of those too.



Armadillo=egg sucker.
Bad as coons?


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## kmckinnie (Dec 27, 2020)

My numbers are picking up again.


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## Nicodemus (Dec 27, 2020)

1eyefishing said:


> Armadillo=egg sucker.
> Bad as coons?




No.

If dillers and coyotes were as bad as folks make them out to be, there wouldn`t be a ground nesting bird of any species in Texas. Turkeys included.


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## SwampMoss (Dec 27, 2020)

What about birds of prey?  The numbers have increased since the 80’s it seems.


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## Nicodemus (Dec 27, 2020)

SwampMoss said:


> What about birds of prey?  The numbers have increased since the 80’s it seems.




They have, but they`ve coexisted with Red shouldered and Cooper`s hawks since life began, and all are still here. Just about any time there is an imbalance, you can put the blame on mankind.


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## six (Dec 27, 2020)

SwampMoss said:


> What about birds of prey?  The numbers have increased since the 80’s it seems.


I think that's one of several factors.  Increase in predators equals less prey for competing predators.   I think with the abundance of yotes, bobcats etc. it has caused birds of prey to expand there normal food chain.  They have always gotten their share of poults, but I have personally witnessed a hawk attack a full grown hen on two occasions in the last three years.  And I had never seen that the previous 50 or so years.   And I have also found two headless turkeys in the last two years, the rest of the carcass was untouched.  I had never seen that before either.  I'm not saying birds of prey are the problem, but I think they have been forced to expand their menu, which adds to the turkey populations problem.    Someone mentioned poult recruitment.  Birds of prey could directly contribute to that.


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## six (Dec 27, 2020)

Nicodemus said:


> Just about any time there is an imbalance, you can put the blame on mankind.


Bingo!


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## Turkeytider (Dec 28, 2020)

six said:


> I think that's one of several factors.  Increase in predators equals less prey for competing predators.   I think with the abundance of yotes, bobcats etc. it has caused birds of prey to expand there normal food chain.  They have always gotten their share of poults, but I have personally witnessed a hawk attack a full grown hen on two occasions in the last three years.  And I had never seen that the previous 50 or so years.   And I have also found two headless turkeys in the last two years, the rest of the carcass was untouched.  I had never seen that before either.  I'm not saying birds of prey are the problem, but I think they have been forced to expand their menu, which adds to the turkey populations problem.    Someone mentioned poult recruitment.  Birds of prey could directly contribute to that.



Headless turkeys with essentially no other damage is a signature for great horned owl predation. They are flying wolves and will knock an adult turkey out of a roost.

Studies of coyotes, some of the most thorough in the South, has been conducted by Dr. Mike Chamberlain from UGA. His team`s results have shown that coyotes are not a major predator of adult turkeys. That`s based on scat analysis. Bobcat, different story.


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## Turkeytider (Dec 28, 2020)

Nicodemus said:


> I don`t think dillers have that much of an impact on the eggs. At least I haven`t found any proof of it. Big oak snakes do a number on them and biddies though.



Snakes are a major nest threat, probably the most significant. Not that other things can`t be threats.


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## Turkeytider (Dec 28, 2020)

six said:


> Bingo!


Yes sir. Given enough time, there`s not much we can`t screw up. Nature`s an amazing thing though. Given half a chance, things CAN come back, or at least significantly improve. After the Deep Water Horizon blow out and spill in the Gulf, the fisheries were temporarily closed. Populations exploded.


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## Timber1 (Dec 28, 2020)

Back on the early 90's they took a portion of Fort Mtn. Park and put it back into nat. forest land. That was a turkey hunting paradise for about 6 or 7 years. It got hunted to death and now I'd rate it just average for turkey hunting. The only predator that changed was the two legged one.


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## Thunder Head (Dec 29, 2020)

The only dead turkey i have found was killed by a bobcat. Feathers along pasture edge. I stepped into the woods. The hen carcass was laying in a sandy spot along the creek. It was half eaten and surrounded by cat tracks. I got the impression i had just interrupted it.


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## Resica (Dec 30, 2020)

mallardsx2 said:


> A little reputable birdy told me that there are changes coming.
> 
> Not what I hoped for. But its a start.
> 
> ...


What's the word?


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## Sixes (Dec 31, 2020)

Unless someone figures out what killed/is killing all the hens through a lot of middle Georgia, the population can never come back.

7-8 years ago, you could drive through a plantation that we hunt and see 60-80 bird flocks in the late deer season, early spring time period. During turkey season, gobbling was everywhere and hens were all over the land.

For the last 3-4 years, you're lucky to find one gobbling bird in a week long long.

Now this property is 25% Ag fields with the rest in plantation pines cut in rows for quail with some hardwood drains in the mix. It's close to 10K is size and the turkey hunting pressure consisting of around 6-8 hunters a year.

The turkeys just disappeared. ALL of them, not just gobblers.

And another thing is that the land is on a strict trapping routine, so predators are at a minimum.


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## Sixes (Dec 31, 2020)

The odd things is that on this same property and from what I can see through middle GA, armadillos have disappeared also.

Not sure they can be related in any way, but it seems odd that both went from everywhere in the area to non existent


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## Nicodemus (Dec 31, 2020)

Was chicken litter spread on any of the ag fields?


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## mallardsx2 (Dec 31, 2020)

Say goodbye to killing three gobblers per season. (Starting spring of 2022)

Don't shoot the messenger, but I heard from a reputable source that its coming.

I will not mention the second part because it seems like some people will be out of jobs soon because of it. That is all I will say about it because it is a VERY big rumor to spread.


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## lampern (Dec 31, 2020)

Any justification given?


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## mallardsx2 (Dec 31, 2020)

No, I was just told there are major changes coming.


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## Turkeytider (Dec 31, 2020)

lampern said:


> Any justification given?


If it`s anything other than declining turkey numbers, at least as a major factor, I would be surprised. Just re-read that. Sounds kind of smart aleck, but I didn`t mean it that way. having said that, lower populations WOULD be the main reason for any changes I would think. If we`re looking at substantive changes, it`s hard to imagine that season dates aren`t included.


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## gobble79 (Jan 1, 2021)

FYI:  Can’t figure out how to post link. O’Neal outside had the turkey biologist Emily Ruskin on his radio podcast 12-19 discussing about possible changes, etc that are coming. Fast forward to about the 50 minute mark to hear what she has to say.


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## lampern (Jan 1, 2021)

O'Neill Outside talking with the turkey biologist


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## lampern (Jan 1, 2021)

OK claims hunting "might be" disrupting birds during their breeding season more than thought.

Well no kidding.

Birds next to Florida don't breed at the same time as birds next to Tennessee.

Managing the largest state in the east with one single season north to south.

DNR looking at:

Lower bag limit- 1 or 2 birds per season? 

Daily bag limit (1 per day?)


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## Nicodemus (Jan 1, 2021)

lampern said:


> OK claims hunting "might be" disrupting birds during their breeding season more than thought.
> 
> Well no kidding.
> 
> ...





There`s nothing to worry about. The program is in good hands. 

As time goes on, you`ll come to understand.


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## Sixes (Jan 1, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Was chicken litter spread on any of the ag fields?


Yes. All thru the area.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 2, 2021)

lampern said:


> O'Neill Outside talking with the turkey biologist



Unfortunately, they didn’t discuss how peak breeding time corresponds with season dates. If you take out the dominant gobbler before he has a chance to breed a max number of hens, you’ve short circuited the poult production. Hen turkeys don’t just immediately breed with the next available gobbler. That’s the argument for delaying the season opening based on biology. It would be better to do that and tack on time on the back end. You’ve given the dominant toms more time to breed a larger number of hens. The


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## lampern (Jan 2, 2021)

Is the peak breeding time the same for south georgia as it is for north georgia?


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## Resica (Jan 2, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Unfortunately, they didn’t discuss how peak breeding time corresponds with season dates. If you take out the dominant gobbler before he has a chance to breed a max number of hens, you’ve short circuited the poult production. Hen turkeys don’t just immediately breed with the next available gobbler. That’s the argument for delaying the season opening based on biology. It would be better to do that and tack on time on the back end. You’ve given the dominant toms more time to breed a larger number of hens. The



Interesting. Never heard that before.


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## antharper (Jan 2, 2021)

lampern said:


> Is the peak breeding time the same for south georgia as it is for north georgia?


No , not in my experience


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## lampern (Jan 2, 2021)

https://www.gon.com/hunting/setting-regs-spring-wild-turkey-season



> Unfortunately, many states use neither approach, and simply set seasons based on social and political pressures that often result in seasons opening well before peaks in incubation. Biologists years ago noted the importance of opening hunting seasons after laying and incubation had begun, so this is the most biologically sound approach given what we know about turkeys and their mating system (more about this below).





> So, if many dominant toms, and many toms in general, are removed early in the breeding season (March), it creates problems in the turkey world.



Looks like the push is to get rid of the March segment of the Georgia turkey season.


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## Danuwoa (Jan 3, 2021)

I don’t care all that much if they want to shorten the season if it means we will have better turkey hunting.  What I do find puzzling is we have a four page thread discussing why bird numbers are down overall and nobody has mentioned hogs.  If you don’t believe they’ve hurt our turkey population let me tell you they have.  Hogs eat turkey eggs.  And the beginning of the decline in turkey numbers and the rise of hog numbers in Georgia is almost a mirror image.  Like I said I’m fine with shortening the season and reducing the limit if it will give us better turkey hunting.  But until we get serious about doing something about the hog problem in this state I don’t know how much difference it will make.


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## jbogg (Jan 3, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> I don’t care all that much if they want to shorten the season if it means we will have better turkey hunting.  What I do find puzzling is we have a four page thread discussing why bird numbers are down overall and nobody has mentioned hogs.  If you don’t believe they’ve hurt our turkey population let me tell you they have.  Hogs eat turkey eggs.  And the beginning of the decline in turkey numbers and the rise of hog numbers in Georgia is almost a mirror image.  Like I said I’m fine with shortening the season and reducing the limit if it will give us better turkey hunting.  But until we get serious about doing something about the hog problem in this state I don’t know how much difference it will make.



The biologists say that hogs do not have nearly as much of an impact as many people think. Look no further than Texas, or even Fort Stewart in South Georgia. Both of those areas are absolutely covered up with hogs and the turkey populations are strong. Michael Chamberlain has done a few excellent podcasts describing the leck and how an early season disrupts breeding to the point were many hens will not end up laying a clutch. There are lots of factors involved, many of which we cannot control. Wet Springs, nest predators…. We can control season dates and bag limits. I am willing to listen to the science and give it a chance.


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## Cmcharles (Jan 3, 2021)

We used to have abundant turkeys on our lease, I mean a bunch. Six years ago the farmer used chicken litter, along with most other farmers in the area. The next deer season and each year since until this one we had no turkeys. I saw two hens this year.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 4, 2021)

Cmcharles said:


> We used to have abundant turkeys on our lease, I mean a bunch. Six years ago the farmer used chicken litter, along with most other farmers in the area. The next deer season and each year since until this one we had no turkeys. I saw two hens this year.



Somebody educate me about " chicken litter ". Is it toxic for turkeys? What`s the deal?


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## Turkeytider (Jan 4, 2021)

jbogg said:


> The biologists say that hogs do not have nearly as much of an impact as many people think. Look no further than Texas, or even Fort Stewart in South Georgia. Both of those areas are absolutely covered up with hogs and the turkey populations are strong. Michael Chamberlain has done a few excellent podcasts describing the leck and how an early season disrupts breeding to the point were many hens will not end up laying a clutch. There are lots of factors involved, many of which we cannot control. Wet Springs, nest predators…. We can control season dates and bag limits. *I am willing to listen to the science and give it* *a chance*.



As am I. In addition to being a wildlife biologist who has specialized in turkey biology and predation (done a great deal of work with coyotes ), Dr. Chamberlain is an outdoorsman and absolute fanatic when it comes to hunting in general and turkey hunting in particular. He is most definitely *not *some ivory towered intellectual. He is most assuredly one of " us ". We would all do well to listen and consider. Unfortunately, sometimes scientific evidence and fact is inconvenient on a personal level. We all want to hunt turkeys, not just for the next couple of years, but into the far future. We may well have to take relatively short term sacrifice to ensure that. I`m personally for whatever benefits the birds.


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## Gut_Pile (Jan 4, 2021)

From the video with O'Neill, Emily says changes could be coming for the 2021 season. I know the regs have been set for that season, so I'm guessing she misspoke on that? Or could we have a change before season comes in?


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## twoheartedale (Jan 4, 2021)

My observations over the past month reveal a good crop of poults made it through! I've seen 16- 20 in a flock in 3 different tracks I hunt.  Heard 4 gobblers gobbling their fool head off a few weeks ago.   Good news, because I have not seen this many birds in several years.


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## Dustin Pate (Jan 4, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Was chicken litter spread on any of the ag fields?




I have heard this argument, but my experience doesn't show it to be an issue. My in-laws have houses and have spread litter for 30+ years. Plenty of turkeys around. The population does ebb and flow, but has never crashed.


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## Cmcharles (Jan 4, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Somebody educate me about " chicken litter ". Is it toxic for turkeys? What`s the deal?



Not sure, maybe transmits disease? I talk with landowners and farmers that comprise about 20k acres around us. The chicken litter was used by farmers for two years and we all lost our turkey population. From seeing birds all the time to zero. the chicken litter was the only common denominator.


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## scottyd917 (Jan 4, 2021)

The transmission of Avian Pox?



Turkeytider said:


> Somebody educate me about " chicken litter ". Is it toxic for turkeys? What`s the deal?


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## Turkeytider (Jan 4, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> From the video with O'Neill, Emily says changes could be coming for the 2021 season. I know the regs have been set for that season, so I'm guessing she misspoke on that? Or could we have a change before season comes in?



Guess it`s possible that we could have changes for this year. The fact that the regs for this year have been published and made public makes that more difficult, I would think.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 4, 2021)

twoheartedale said:


> My observations over the past month reveal a good crop of poults made it through! I've seen 16- 20 in a flock in 3 different tracks I hunt.  Heard 4 gobblers gobbling their fool head off a few weeks ago.   Good news, because I have not seen this many birds in several years.


That`s great to hear! Good luck this Spring. That bodes well for the future in that area, hopefully.


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## antharper (Jan 4, 2021)

I’ve also seen more turkeys this deer season than in a long time . I’m gonna blame it on the 14 coyotes and truck load of coons and opossum I caught this time last year


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## Timber1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Somebody educate me about " chicken litter ". Is it toxic for turkeys? What`s the deal?


If you were getting ready to eat and someone scattered chicken poop all over your food, would you eat it? Lol.


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## Resica (Jan 4, 2021)

Danuwoa said:


> I don’t care all that much if they want to shorten the season if it means we will have better turkey hunting.  What I do find puzzling is we have a four page thread discussing why bird numbers are down overall and nobody has mentioned hogs.  If you don’t believe they’ve hurt our turkey population let me tell you they have.  Hogs eat turkey eggs.  And the beginning of the decline in turkey numbers and the rise of hog numbers in Georgia is almost a mirror image.  Like I said I’m fine with shortening the season and reducing the limit if it will give us better turkey hunting.  But until we get serious about doing something about the hog problem in this state I don’t know how much difference it will make.


We've had the same decline in the same time frame, more or less. We don't have hogs, at least in the vast majority of the state.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 4, 2021)

Timber1 said:


> If you were getting ready to eat and someone scattered chicken poop all over your food, would you eat it? Lol.


No. Are you saying that the turkeys are starving to death because somebody is spreading chicken droppings all over their food?


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## Timber1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> No. Are you saying that the turkeys are starving to death because somebody is spreading chicken droppings all over their food?


No, evidently they do eat it and it is thought certain kinds of chicken poop are toxic to them. I think the jury is still out on that one.


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## Timber1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Maybe they will take away in the spring and give back in the fall.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 4, 2021)

I’ve seen more turkeys this year too. The habitat is changing here. From fresh planted pine clear cuts to pines mature enough for turkeys to use the land again. Young pines are just to thick. last time I checked the hens sit the nest. 3bird limit and the season seems fine. most hunters never kill 3 birds. A few kill 2 and not all even kill 1bird. I would say it’s a high number that never kill one.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 5, 2021)

Instead of changing the season ,and changing the limit on birds.Maybe they should change the rules to where you actually have to be a turkey hunter again no decoys no blinds no tss.


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## carlan (Jan 5, 2021)

Is there something new in chicken litter than in years past that harms turkeys?  We had a healthy population back in 90’s-early 2000’s & they were spreading litter then too. Now they are nearly nonexistent in the area & far less litter being spread than years ago. We don’t have hogs either.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 5, 2021)

Timber1 said:


> Maybe they will take away in the spring and give back in the fall.



I would think it more likely, if they don`t just shorten the season,  that they would tack onto the back of the season what they take off the front. After the dominant toms have bred a maximum number of hens, biologically they become superfluous. Mind you, not that we should kill them all! A reduced bag for a couple of years would mean more birds carrying over.


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## lampern (Jan 5, 2021)

If most hunters never kill 3 birds why change the bag limit?

Just change the season dates  so max breeding happens before they are killed


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## Turkeytider (Jan 5, 2021)

lampern said:


> If most hunters never kill 3 birds why change the bag limit?
> 
> Just change the season dates  so max breeding happens before they are killed



I would agree that a delay in season start ( 2 -3 weeks ) would probably be more significant in the long run.


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## kmckinnie (Jan 5, 2021)

All the hens I seen had poults. everything seemed just fine. but what do I know. Someone set these dates with data and a bag limit. I think they did a fine job.


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## XIronheadX (Jan 5, 2021)

Y'all quit stepping on the eggs.


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## lampern (Jan 5, 2021)

kmckinnie said:


> All the hens I seen had poults. everything seemed just fine. but what do I know. Someone set these dates with data and a bag limit. I think they did a fine job.



Nobody wants to manage turkeys like deer with different seasons for different areas depending on the population.

Is there even a state in the southeast that sets spring turkey seasons that way?


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## kmckinnie (Jan 5, 2021)

lampern said:


> Nobody wants to manage turkeys like deer with different seasons for different areas depending on the population.
> 
> Is there even a state in the southeast that sets spring turkey seasons that way?


 From what I seen on deer hunting sence u mentioned it. If any part of the state is different even if it’s for the best. Hunters complain. One way or another. so then you would have why do they get to hunt earlier. Why is there’s open later. Even if the number of days are the same. 
These dates now cover it all.


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## chrislibby88 (Jan 8, 2021)

lampern said:


> If most hunters never kill 3 birds why change the bag limit?
> 
> Just change the season dates  so max breeding happens before they are killed


The hardcore addicts kill 3 birds the first two weeks of season then call birds in for all their buddies to shoot.


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## Thunder Head (Jan 8, 2021)

Yes if a bird disease ran thru the poultry houses. It could be spread to wild birds thru the spreading of litter.

I don't have any proof that that's what happened. You never used to see do not enter signs and foot wash stations at chicken houses around here. That started 10 - 15 years ago and is the case at lots of them now.


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## Tail Chaser (Jan 10, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> From the video with O'Neill, Emily says changes could be coming for the 2021 season. I know the regs have been set for that season, so I'm guessing she misspoke on that? Or could we have a change before season comes in?


I believe the changes will be effective in 2022. April opener and lower bag limit per WMA. There have already been a few WMA’s restricted to one gobbler this spring.


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## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

I get that there is pressure to do something because of Turkey numbers across the state, but I don’t care if I you are talking about deer, quail, turkeys, or rabbits, it all comes down to habitat.  I can show you places with good turkey habitat and plenty of nesting habitat, and there are turkeys everywhere.   I can show you other places with poorer habitat and little to no nesting cover, and there are few birds.  This even occurs in places that are a few miles apart.  The season has been March to May for years, and “killing off toms early” wasn’t impacting anything back then when turkeys were everywhere.  It isn’t going to do anything now, but at least the DNR can say they are “doing something.”  The real issue is the DNR has no impact on the habitat and management of 99.9% of the state, and you can’t overcome poor or changing habitat with regulations.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 11, 2021)

across the river said:


> I get that there is pressure to do something because of Turkey numbers across the state, but I don’t care if I you are talking about deer, quail, turkeys, or rabbits, it all comes down to habitat.  I can show you places with good turkey habitat and plenty of nesting habitat, and there are turkeys everywhere.   I can show you other places with poorer habitat and little to no nesting cover, and there are few birds.  This even occurs in places that are a few miles apart.  The season has been March to May for years, and “killing off toms early” wasn’t impacting anything back then when turkeys were everywhere.  It isn’t going to do anything now, but at least the DNR can say they are “doing something.”  The real issue is the DNR has no impact on the habitat and management of 99.9% of the state, and you can’t overcome poor or changing habitat with regulations.



No biologist worth his/her salt will say that it`s only one factor. Death by a thousand cuts. What can we control? Is it taking out toms before they`ve bred a max number of hens? I think so. Is it weather? Some years, yes. Predators? Sure. Habitat management (or the lack thereof )? Absolutely. Bag limits? In concert with everything else? Probably. This is not a population crash. It`s been a downward trend for a number of years. To say that " "killing off toms early " wasn`t impacting anything....." may not be an accurate statement from a biological standpoint.


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## Gut_Pile (Jan 11, 2021)

across the river said:


> I get that there is pressure to do something because of Turkey numbers across the state, but I don’t care if I you are talking about deer, quail, turkeys, or rabbits, it all comes down to habitat.  I can show you places with good turkey habitat and plenty of nesting habitat, and there are turkeys everywhere.   I can show you other places with poorer habitat and little to no nesting cover, and there are few birds.  This even occurs in places that are a few miles apart.  The season has been March to May for years, and “killing off toms early” wasn’t impacting anything back then when turkeys were everywhere.  It isn’t going to do anything now, but at least the DNR can say they are “doing something.”  The real issue is the DNR has no impact on the habitat and management of 99.9% of the state, and you can’t overcome poor or changing habitat with regulations.



While I 100% agree that habitat has a ton to do with it, the state and the bird are losing habitat year after year. With less habitat, the killing of gobblers too early could now have an impact on the turkey population.


----------



## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

Gut_Pile said:


> While I 100% agree that habitat has a ton to do with it, the state and the bird are losing habitat year after year. With less habitat, the killing of gobblers too early could now have an impact on the turkey population.



If you believe it keep telling yourself that.  Just like the deer guys with a hunter per every 20 acres thinks the 10 doe limit is their problem. Are there less turkeys than there were 30 years ago? Yes. Did hunting them in March cause the decline, no.  I don’t think that is debatable.  Do the DNR really have any options they can control other than the limit and season dates?  No, which is why it will change.  It won’t do anymore to improve Turkey number overall, than reducing the quail limit would do to bring quail back across the state.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 11, 2021)

across the river said:


> If you believe it keep telling yourself that.  Just like the deer guys with a hunter per every 20 acres thinks the 10 doe limit is their problem. Are there less turkeys than there were 30 years ago? Yes. Did hunting them in March cause the decline, no.  I don’t think that is debatable.  Do the DNR really have any options they can control other than the limit and season dates?  No, which is why it will change.  It won’t do anymore to improve Turkey number overall, than reducing the quail limit would do to bring quail back across the state.


We`re all entitled to our opinions. I`ve based mine in large measure on the studies of wildlife biologists like Dr. Mike Chamberlain from UGA. Personally, I`d like for you to be correct in your rather definitive statement concerning the March season, even if it doesn`t match the reality of the breeding timing and peaks for the Eastern wild turkey in Georgia. Sometimes scientific facts are very inconvenient when it comes to our own personal beliefs.


----------



## saltysenior (Jan 11, 2021)

across the river said:


> I get that there is pressure to do something because of Turkey numbers across the state, but I don’t care if I you are talking about deer, quail, turkeys, or rabbits, it all comes down to habitat.  I can show you places with good turkey habitat and plenty of nesting habitat, and there are turkeys everywhere.   I can show you other places with poorer habitat and little to no nesting cover, and there are few birds.  This even occurs in places that are a few miles apart.  The season has been March to May for years, and “killing off toms early” wasn’t impacting anything back then when turkeys were everywhere.  It isn’t going to do anything now, but at least the DNR can say they are “doing something.”  The real issue is the DNR has no impact on the habitat and management of 99.9% of the state, and you can’t overcome poor or changing habitat with regulations.



if habitat is the major factor , please explain how turkey and deer populations seem to be doing very well in suburban areas in many states...


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## lampern (Jan 11, 2021)

I still don't see how reducing the bag limit from 3 birds to 2 birds will have much of an impact, at least at a statewide level


----------



## lampern (Jan 11, 2021)

https://forum.gon.com/threads/public-meetings.985209/


----------



## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> We`re all entitled to our opinions. I`ve based mine in large measure on the studies of wildlife biologists like Dr. Mike Chamberlain from UGA. Personally, I`d like for you to be correct in your rather definitive statement concerning the March season, even if it doesn`t match the reality of the breeding timing and peaks for the Eastern wild turkey in Georgia. Sometimes scientific facts are very inconvenient when it comes to our own personal beliefs.



I know all about Brett Collier and Mike Chamberlin's GPS studies. Chamberlin noticed hens nesting later than they thought in the studies.  Turkeys mate using an exploded lek system, so the thought is killing the dominant males *could* cause lowerpoult recruitment by pushing out the hen's nesting.  In theory, if you don't allow hunting until after all the turkeys were bred, then poultry recruitment will increase because you will have hens nest earlier and have more successful first nests.  Some states have already changed the dates, but even Chamberlin says it is an experiment at this point.   He doesn't have any idea if it will work.  Since you follow him so closely, I am sure you also caught on to the work the did within burned tracts in LA, and the hens preference for tracts that had been recently burned and the advantages of early succession habitat.  Even Chamberlin talks about the importance of brood cover and access to nesting habitat, and both will tell you that predation has little influence in turkey populations, other than in areas where there is poor nesting and brooding habitat. Collier has even talked about the flags that went up for bobwhite quail and the similarities between the declines of both due to habitat loss. Like I said, they have to do something, because people are complaining.  Sort of like reducing the doe days in the mountains, which isn't going to do anything either until the feds start cutting trees.

Since you like research studies, look up Guiming Wang from Mississippi State.  They found that diverse habitat with a combination of different types in close proximity maximized turkey production.  You can't have continuous acres of monotonous pines, or a fractured up landscape and maximize production.  If the carrying capacity of and area goes down due to habitat change and fragmentation, you can eliminate hunting all together and the population will still go down to meet the carrying capacity of that tract.  The same issue that faces turkeys has decimated quail, and it isn't hunters, limits, or season dates in either case.


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## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

lampern said:


> I still don't see how reducing the bag limit from 3 birds to 2 birds will have much of an impact, at least at a statewide level



It won't.


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## tr21 (Jan 11, 2021)

we need 1000's of more acre's of the illustrious long leaf pines. everything needs the long leaf's. cut down every other tree so we can plant more. i hunt Blanton CREEK WMA and we used to be covered up with turkey's. you couldn't drive from the front to the back without seeing at least a dozen running across the road. now if you see one your lucky, but hey the state is giving GA Power tax breaks to plant the illustrious long leaf, so their cutting everything just to plant them. yea i know killmaster tell me how great they are ! you cant clear 3000 acres off a 5000 acre place and replant it in pines, we have plenty of tree rats though....


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## Whit90 (Jan 11, 2021)

It’s already been proven on this forum many times that there is absolutely NO chance that any change in the regulations would positively impact the turkey population. It would be a dang shame and waste of time if we even considered such a thing. What we need to do is hope and pray that our fearless government pays up the big bucks to restore habitat state wide to bring back our magnificent turkey!! Contact your senators.


----------



## hoytman308 (Jan 11, 2021)

It ain’t just coons, coyotes, and possums.  Fire ants don’t help those poults the day they hatch either but there is also hawks.  There are so many things against them it’s not even funny. It should be mandatory for ALL public land to be planted with different things to help turkeys and deer to thrive.  It should also be mandatory for trapping to happen on ALL public lands as well.   You can trap until your blue in the face on your private tract but when it butts up to 10,000 acres of cedar creek not much damage you can do because other predators will just assume the new vacated wood lot.   Yes I know the money aspect of it but my goodness the government makes people billion and trillionaires.  How come some crooked DNR employee can’t employe those tactics for wildlife.


----------



## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

saltysenior said:


> if habitat is the major factor , please explain how turkey and deer populations seem to be doing very well in suburban areas in many states...


Deer and turkey both thrive in edge habitat, and turkeys numbers do best in areas that are ~30% hardwoods and a mixture of habitat.  The "burbs" are a large swatch of edge habitat with a multitude of different habitats, plenty of food, and typically a lower   number of predators.  As long as there are some travel corridors and it isn't high fragmented, the surburban areas can typically support a lot of animals because there is plenty of food and good habitat. There is a lot more to eat in 1000 acres scattered through the burbs than there is 1000 acres of 12 or 15 year old pines with nothing but pine needles on the floor, or even a 1000 continuous acres of old growth hardwoods for that matter.  They both thrive in a mixture of habitats, and the burbs is that in many areas.


----------



## across the river (Jan 11, 2021)

whitney90 said:


> It’s already been proven on this forum many times that there is absolutely NO chance that any change in the regulations would positively impact the turkey population. It would be a dang shame and waste of time if we even considered such a thing. What we need to do is hope and pray that our fearless government pays up the big bucks to restore habitat state wide to bring back our magnificent turkey!! Contact your senators.



The government can't restore habitat, that is the point. You take a 2000 acre tract that 20 or 30 years ago was a mix of fields, fence rows, pines and hardwoods, it was very likely loaded with turkeys.  It likely got clearcut 15 years ago, and is now a single continuous pine plantation outside of the stream buffers.  The carrying capacity of that land for both deer and turkey is a fraction of what it was years earlier.   That has played out all across the state.   I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying "It is what it is."  They are going to cut the limit and likely move the dates, but my point is there is zero evidence from other states that have done it that it will make any difference. The land can only carry what it can carry, and if you never kill a turkey on a place, the number of birds it will hold is limited primarily by nesting (or fawning) habitat. If a place has few birds due to habitat and too many people hunting it, reducing the limit from 3 to 2 does nothing.  It sounds good though, so keep thinking it will make a difference.  I myself will continue to improve  what habitat I have, and kill what they allow me to kill, all while the turkey numbers seem to remain high.


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## C.Killmaster (Jan 11, 2021)

Turkeytider said:


> Somebody educate me about " chicken litter ". Is it toxic for turkeys? What`s the deal?



Uncomposted litter from layer and breeder chickens can potentially transmit histomoniasis (blackhead) to wild turkeys.  Broilers don't live long enough to complete the life cycle of the worm that transmits it.  Here's everything you didn't want to know about it, enjoy the pictures!

https://www.mdwfp.com/media/4006/blackheaddisease.pdf

This has never been documented to cause major declines in turkeys in Georgia though.


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## Cmcharles (Jan 11, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> Uncomposted litter from layer and breeder chickens can potentially transmit histomoniasis (blackhead) to wild turkeys.  Broilers don't live long enough to complete the life cycle of the worm that transmits it.  Here's everything you didn't want to know about it, enjoy the pictures!
> 
> https://www.mdwfp.com/media/4006/blackheaddisease.pdf
> 
> This has never been documented to cause major declines in turkeys in Georgia though.



I can tell you we lost 90% + of our turkey population over a 2 year period while chicken litter was used as fertilizer. This was in Bleckley county over miles and miles of farmland. Everyone I’ve talked to lost them over the same time period and we are just now starting to see turkeys again. I saw the first two hens this year that we’ve seen since 2016. Before that it was normal to see 6-8 gobblers together during deer season and large groups of hens. The funny thing is we don’t turkey hunt this farm.
The common denominator between all landowners was the use of chicken litter.


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## Whit90 (Jan 12, 2021)

@across the river I was being sarcastic. Also my argument on this whole issue is on the public land side, which makes it a very different argument. It is impossible for public land hunters to do any thing about the habitat.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 12, 2021)

across the river said:


> I know all about Brett Collier and Mike Chamberlin's GPS studies. Chamberlin noticed hens nesting later than they thought in the studies.  Turkeys mate using an exploded lek system, so the thought is killing the dominant males *could* cause lowerpoult recruitment by pushing out the hen's nesting.  In theory, if you don't allow hunting until after all the turkeys were bred, then poultry recruitment will increase because you will have hens nest earlier and have more successful first nests.  Some states have already changed the dates, but even Chamberlin says it is an experiment at this point.   He doesn't have any idea if it will work.  Since you follow him so closely, I am sure you also caught on to the work the did within burned tracts in LA, and the hens preference for tracts that had been recently burned and the advantages of early succession habitat.  Even Chamberlin talks about the importance of brood cover and access to nesting habitat, and both will tell you that predation has little influence in turkey populations, other than in areas where there is poor nesting and brooding habitat. Collier has even talked about the flags that went up for bobwhite quail and the similarities between the declines of both due to habitat loss. Like I said, they have to do something, because people are complaining.  Sort of like reducing the doe days in the mountains, which isn't going to do anything either until the feds start cutting trees.
> 
> Since you like research studies, look up Guiming Wang from Mississippi State.  They found that diverse habitat with a combination of different types in close proximity maximized turkey production.  You can't have continuous acres of monotonous pines, or a fractured up landscape and maximize production.  If the carrying capacity of and area goes down due to habitat change and fragmentation, you can eliminate hunting all together and the population will still go down to meet the carrying capacity of that tract.  The same issue that faces turkeys has decimated quail, and it isn't hunters, limits, or season dates in either case.



You seem to think that I’m a proponent ONLY of season opening date alteration. If I gave that impression, it’s not what I intended at all. On the private land that I hunt, I’ve seen personally the impact of excellent land management practices ( planting, cover management, controlled burning, etc. ). I merely advocate a position that emphasizes a multiplicity of factors, only one of which centers around maximizing the numbers of hens that are bred by dominant toms by adjusting the start date of the season. While I disagree with the opinion that this would be of no benefit to the population, I respect the right of those who would hold it.


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## chase870 (Jan 12, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> Best thing that could happen to turkeys is for coon and possum fur prices to go back up.


This /\ /\ I'm afraid the days of fur are over, that said if its a nest predator I kill it when I can.


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## lampern (Jan 14, 2021)

Online DNR meeting tonight on book of faces


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## Turkeytider (Jan 14, 2021)

lampern said:


> Online DNR meeting tonight on book of faces



Have you seen an agenda?


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## lampern (Jan 14, 2021)

Nope

But in the deer hunting forum somebody mentioned they discussed turkey changes


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## Ihunt (Jan 14, 2021)

Google Black head disease. A good friend of mine has a buddy that sent a turkey Caracas to UGA. It came back positive as Black head. He had found dead turkeys and walked up on one that was stumbling around like she was drunk. 

There is only one thing that can wipe out a population the way it happened in some areas. DISEASE! Predators, ants and hogs have always been present where I hunt in Dooly. 

I, like someone above, hunt a groomed track of land that was a turkey paradise. In a 2 year span, the population went from great to nonexistent. You’ll never convince me it was anything other than disease.


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## lampern (Jan 14, 2021)

Proposed changes:

Enact a daily bag limit of 1 turkey statewide • 

One of the following 3 options for turkeys:
 • Allow only 1 gobbler/1st 10 days and reduce bag limit to 2 
• Reduce turkey bag limit from 3 to 2
• Allow only 1 gobbler during the 1st 10 days of the statewide season 

WMA Changes:

Delay start of Turkey Season on all state managed lands until the second Saturday in April 
• One Gobbler per WMA season limit 

https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/d...ulations/Public Meetings 2021-2023 online.pdf


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## Turkeytider (Jan 14, 2021)

lampern said:


> Proposed changes:
> 
> Enact a daily bag limit of 1 turkey statewide •
> 
> ...



So, there would be a different start date on private land? I`m not real sure I understand that from a biological standpoint. In toto, the majority of turkeys ( and everything else! ) is on private land. If the purpose of delaying the start is to have more hens bred prior to taking the dominant toms, why limit it to WMAs?


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 14, 2021)

There were discussions about male decoys being banned as well, or at least fanning


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## lampern (Jan 14, 2021)

They apparently wanting to test a later start date on WMAs.


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## sjmauldi (Jan 15, 2021)

Got the survey this morning.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 15, 2021)

JMHO, but I think everyone who cares about having the privilege to hunt these magnificent creatures, both now and in the future, and who cares about the birds themselves, should participate in this survey.


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

I didnt get the survey e-mailed to me. Very interesting.


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

I was finally able to watch the video. 

I love how she says that people need to "pay attention to their harvest". So in other words they are admitting that the limits are too high and birds are being overshot in specific areas.

The "problem" and I quote "It was years in the making"....meanwhile the DNR let the hunters just kept on marching towards doom and gloom days. Shame on the DNR for letting it get to this point. As it is THEM who make the decisions and set the bag limits. This should have been adjusted YEARS ago. At least they are finally addressing it now.

Interesting conversation but it sounds like just another lackadaisical conversation on her behalf.  

I realize there is red tape to get new regulations passed but this issue should have been taken care of years ago.


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## Turkey dog (Jan 15, 2021)

Just a thought, Until there’s more LE.To go out and enforce the rules and laws and stop the illegal stuff that goes on now baiting,and killing over the limit ,Not much will change!


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

Unfortunately, poachers are something that is never factored into the equation.


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## Whit90 (Jan 15, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> I was finally able to watch the video.
> 
> I love how she says that people need to "pay attention to their harvest". So in other words they are admitting that the limits are too high and birds are being overshot in specific areas.
> 
> ...



Do you every have anything positive to say? Can you not be happy that something is happening now and stop with the shoulda woulda coulda scenarios? We all know it’s about time.


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

You have a nice looking dog, a great beard and congratulations on your buck. Satisfied?


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## Turkeytider (Jan 15, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> I didnt get the survey e-mailed to me. Very interesting.



I wonder how DNR knew who to e-mail the survey? Obviously they want to survey turkey hunters. Maybe they sent the survey to those on record as having registered a turkey(?).


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 15, 2021)

Survey is terrible, on the second part you cant put 1-5 for all of the questions..... you have to put 1 for one, 2 for another, 3 for another and all the way to 5.  Not how that was supposed to be setup I'm assuming, data from this will be useless immediately


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## mallardsx2 (Jan 15, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Survey is terrible, on the second part you cant put 1-5 for all of the questions..... you have to put 1 for one, 2 for another, 3 for another and all the way to 5.  Not how that was supposed to be setup I'm assuming, data from this will be useless immediately



I agree with you and this is our DNR doing its "outreach" to its hunters to get their opinion. 

I hope you didn't expect more from them.


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 15, 2021)

I know what to expect from the Gub'ment.  Just hate that this survey is now useless and its data a waste of time because of the error. Only two questions and they couldn't handle that. Sure hope someone is informed of the mistake and its at least sent out again


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## antharper (Jan 15, 2021)

I just done the survey. I’m sure gonna miss the cool weather at the beginning of the season . And I don’t think it matters how we vote ... the decision has already been made . Hopefully it helps for the areas that don’t have any turkeys . I guess it will give me more time to trap before I turn my attention to turkey hunting


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## Athos (Jan 15, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Survey is terrible, on the second part you cant put 1-5 for all of the questions..... you have to put 1 for one, 2 for another, 3 for another and all the way to 5.  Not how that was supposed to be setup I'm assuming, data from this will be useless immediately



I’m pretty sure that’s how they meant for it to be set up.

Basically, rank these 5 options from best to worst. Take the lowest total number and that the general winner.


----------



## Resica (Jan 15, 2021)

mallardsx2 said:


> I agree with you and this is our DNR doing its "outreach" to its hunters to get their opinion.
> 
> I hope you didn't expect more from them.


When did you move from Pa. to Georgia?


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## tr21 (Jan 15, 2021)

it's sure going to be nice dressed in long sleeve camo when it's 95 deg. out. maybe they should cancel the spring season and we can only have a fall season . that way we dont interrupt them when their


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## antharper (Jan 15, 2021)

tr21 said:


> it's sure going to be nice dressed in long sleeve camo when it's 95 deg. out. maybe they should cancel the spring season and we can only have a fall season . that way we dont interrupt them when their


Maybe we should change deer season also


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## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

tr21 said:


> it's sure going to be nice dressed in long sleeve camo when it's 95 deg. out. maybe they should cancel the spring season and we can only have a fall season . that way we dont interrupt them when their



They do realize we shoot males only in GA, right???


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## buckpasser (Jan 15, 2021)

Everybody beats me up for saying this, but I’m tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot as hunters.  I feel that most of the complaining that has become the driver of this whole mission for “hope and change” has come from lazy, spoiled, whiney butt hunters that used to be able to sit on this one tree and kill three a year, now they can’t kill nothing!  “Something needs to be done!!!”  Well, the season worked well for many years.  Turkey populations cycle up.  Turkey populations cycle down. Man up, start burning, start planting, start trapping, and quit your belly aching!  Now you crybabies are gonna get your way and the trends up and trends down will continue, but we’re stuck with crummy regs and lower limits. Thanks a lot!


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## fountain (Jan 16, 2021)

Is the season delay for wma only or all lands?


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## MesquiteHeat (Jan 16, 2021)

Legalizing deer baiting has made things worse just like fanning, lot of men that wouldn't and couldn't all of a sudden could scratch a limit once they were slinging corn. I know people that said they didn't know they had strong populations of turkey until they were baiting for deer.....an usually empty club in the Spring the next year had 'turkey hunters' and has been that way since


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## buckpasser (Jan 16, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Legalizing deer baiting has made things worse just like fanning, lot of men that wouldn't and couldn't all of a sudden could scratch a limit once they were slinging corn. I know people that said they didn't know they had strong populations of turkey until they were baiting for deer.....an usually empty club in the Spring the next year had 'turkey hunters' and has been that way since



Plus, spin feeders and regular bait locations in the woods result in turkeys dying more often to predators in my experience.  It’s been a negative all the way around. Beginning turkey season on the 4th of July should turn it all around quickly, so just hang in there.


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## deerpoacher1970 (Jan 17, 2021)

If later start date is only for public lands,sounds like the public land turkey hunter is screwed ,if you have to work you are only going to get a limited time to hunt and if we have any bad weather.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

MesquiteHeat said:


> Survey is terrible, on the second part you cant put 1-5 for all of the questions..... you have to put 1 for one, 2 for another, 3 for another and all the way to 5.  Not how that was supposed to be setup I'm assuming, data from this will be useless immediately


Thought there was something funny about that. May need to re-send.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 17, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Everybody beats me up for saying this, but I’m tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot as hunters.  I feel that most of the complaining that has become the driver of this whole mission for “hope and change” has come from lazy, spoiled, whiney butt hunters that used to be able to sit on this one tree and kill three a year, now they can’t kill nothing!  “Something needs to be done!!!”  Well, the season worked well for many years.  Turkey populations cycle up.  Turkey populations cycle down. Man up, start burning, start planting, start trapping, and quit your belly aching!  Now you crybabies are gonna get your way and the trends up and trends down will continue, but we’re stuck with crummy regs and lower limits. Thanks a lot!



It’ s an absolutely accurate statement that turkey populations , along with all wildlife , cycle. There are many factors involved. That’s why wildlife population biology data is trended over periods of time. That’s how determination of the steady decline in poult/ hen ratios came about.


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## buckpasser (Jan 17, 2021)

You realize “science” and data is used to force all sorts of change on us, right?  We’re trending towards a fiery meltdown world temperature wise “they” say.  To stop this and hopefully reverse it, “they” tell us we must change our ways. Slow the carbon emissions, stop pollution, pay more taxes, etc. 

That’s nifty, but how many combustion engines did it take to melt the glaciers off of North America?  Oh, that’s right, none were in use then. The warming trend had already begun.  In this case, the science is gonna save us again. Late start date, less hunting, less pressure, and viola!  Glory, glory!  They’re gonna save us all!


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## Jack Flynn (Jan 22, 2021)

Tell you what I watched on several occasions this past year. Crows giving turkeys tee total **** a bunch and for long periods of time. You don't think a crow will grab a poult and eat it think again. The whole brood would be gone in a matter of seconds.


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## BASS1FUN (Jan 26, 2021)

My take on all of this is that the areas that populations have plummeted are not going to be fixed by a statewide change. I read many years ago that the turkey breeding kicks in with longer days and when the time started going back earlier beginning in 2007 I was elated. I was limiting out and having a blast and I hunt public land 98% of the time. I talked to a hunter that hunts in SW Georgia and he said that he was seeing gobblers breeding hens in late January. I have been seeing eggs the second week in April and poults the 3rd week when I used to see them in late May thru June. From 2014-2017 hardly heard any gobbling but I was seeing them and their sign, but I observed more hawks,owls and eagles in the area also. I have hunted our family land 4 times since 2012 and should have killed that many birds(only got 2, gun wouldn't fire on the other 2) and my cousin hasn't shot any coyotes and other predators that roam the property. Last year (probably because of COVID) we saw an increase in harvest but who is to say that when we started game check-in hunters just neglected to report their harvest. I also hunt Kansas and they took a tag from us last year but the properties we hunt are overrun with turkeys my take is if its a predator problem its got to be the ones with wings in which we can do anything about except a crow, also on our family land it butts up to a chicken farm that has been operating since the 70's and he's always spraying the fields with chicken manure. Just my take everyone please have a BLESSED season but most important a safe one.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 26, 2021)

It`s always been my understanding that a hen doesn`t have to be bred but once to lay a fertile clutch of eggs. If this has been found out to be false, I haven`t heard anything about it.


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## Resica (Jan 26, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> It`s always been my understanding that a hen doesn`t have to be bred but once to lay a fertile clutch of eggs. If this has been found out to be false, I haven`t heard anything about it.


That's what I've heard as well. Nesting after losing the first clutch.


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## Turkeytider (Jan 27, 2021)

Nicodemus said:


> It`s always been my understanding that a hen doesn`t have to be bred but once to lay a fertile clutch of eggs. If this has been found out to be false, I haven`t heard anything about it.


I`ve not seen or heard anything to the contrary. Hen can store sperm for 30 days in a special internal pouch.


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## Permitchaser (Jan 28, 2021)

I've hunted Turkeys long enough in Georgia to remember a 1 gobbler limit


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## tr21 (Jan 29, 2021)

well all this is obviously upsetting the turkeys ! just saw on the news where the last turkey left is attacking the police cars!


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## DRBugman85 (Jan 29, 2021)

buckpasser said:


> Everybody beats me up for saying this, but I’m tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot as hunters.  I feel that most of the complaining that has become the driver of this whole mission for “hope and change” has come from lazy, spoiled, whiney butt hunters that used to be able to sit on this one tree and kill three a year, now they can’t kill nothing!  “Something needs to be done!!!”  Well, the season worked well for many years.  Turkey populations cycle up.  Turkey populations cycle down. Man up, start burning, start planting, start trapping, and quit your belly aching!  Now you crybabies are gonna get your way and the trends up and trends down will continue, but we’re stuck with crummy regs and lower limits. Thanks a lot!


AMEN


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## HD28 (Jan 29, 2021)

Starting the first of March thru the end of May, kill all the jakes, gobblers and hens you see. Find the nests and stomp the eggs.  After that, shoot the poults later in the year!


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## twoheartedale (Jan 29, 2021)

HD28 said:


> Starting the first of March thru the end of May, kill all the jakes, gobblers and hens you see. Find the nests and stomp the eggs.  After that, shoot the poults later in the year!



Turkey eggs make great omelets.   Only second to eagle eggs!


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## Turkeytider (Jan 29, 2021)

HD28 said:


> *Starting the first of March thru the* *end of May, kill all the jakes, gobblers and hens you see.* Find the nests and stomp the eggs.  After that, shoot the poults later in the year!



The sad thing is that there are no doubt cretins out there that will do precisely that, particularly the first sentence.


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## HD28 (Jan 29, 2021)

....and only after all of them are officially eradicated....then....begin to whine and try to figure out a way to bring them back!


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## antharper (Jan 29, 2021)

Permitchaser said:


> I've hunted Turkeys long enough in Georgia to remember a 1 gobbler limit


When I first started the county I lived in didn’t have a season


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## rolltidefan (Jan 30, 2021)

Well I can honestly say that in my 35 years of turkey hunting, I have never and I mean never, shot over my limit of turkeys. Ever. I do know of several hunters who does shoot well over the limit. That is a serious problem. While I have personally observed numerous hens while hunting, there are only a few gobblers. A lot less than the hen numbers. So, if the turkeys are over hunted and hunters kill more than the limit, you will see a dramatic reduction in gobbler numbers then a reduction in overall turkey numbers if they can not reproduce. I do not know how to fix this other than being called a "rat" and squeal on the ones over hunting the gobblers but it is apparently clear that the current process is not working. Changing the length of the season, reducing tag numbers from 3 to 2 or 3 to 1 does nothing while the above mentioned problem continues. Baiting? I really do not care if you do or not. To me it is no different than baiting for deer. Turkeys have a harder time adapting to their surroundings compared to deer. So when you factor in, timber forest management that destroys nesting areas, poaching or killing over your limit, coyotes, bobcats, coons, etc., they have a lot against them than that of deer. If turkeys are really that important as DNR is declaring this to be and to explore changes in the season and the number of tags allowed, then it should go farther to also include state mandates as to when timber harvesting can be allowed that explores the reduction or pause of harvest during mating season and to put stiff consequences in place to those who take more than the limit. To me this is bull and I do not see the reduction in tags nor a shorten season fixing anything, but I will have to say told you so another day down the road if that happens.


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## redneck_billcollector (Jan 31, 2021)

Buckman18 said:


> Georgia's turkey season dates have been the same for decades. There are fewer turkey hunters today in Georgia than 20 years ago. If the turkey season dates were the issue, turkeys would've been in trouble back in the 80's.
> 
> Georgia also has 1000's and 1000's of acres in designated wilderness that NEVER sees a turkey hunter. Turkey populations are no different inside the wilderness vs the areas surrounding the wilderness.  If hunter impact were a primary issue, the wilderness acres would be crawling with more turkey.
> 
> ...


Not near as many coon hunters now as there were back then and at least the last time I checked, you can hardly give a coon pelt away.  Back in the late 70s a south GA coon hide was bringing anywhere from 20 dollars or more, depending on the size and the quality.  I put up my steel when the prices fell and have not broken it out since.  Well, I did when otter rose a while back.  Never liked killing animals just for the sake of killing them. Coons are the major nest raiders in GA and probably count for 80% or more of the nest destructions. The only predator I have ever seen take a Turkey other than man, was a bobcat.  Watched one take down a turkey that was working to my call the first year we had a Turkey season in Mitchell Co. I imagine wild/feral hogs will put a hurting on a turkey nest too. As for in the 80s, that is when a good bit of SOWEGA got their first turkey seasons during modern times.


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## twoheartedale (Feb 1, 2021)

antharper said:


> When I first started the county I lived in didn’t have a season



I killed the first turkey on my uncles farm in 1994.  They have owned the land since the late 1700's.


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## redneck_billcollector (Feb 1, 2021)

twoheartedale said:


> I killed the first turkey on my uncles farm in 1994.  They have owned the land since the late 1700's.


Turkey hunting in modern times in GA is a relatively new thing in my neck of the woods. I hunted them before they were legal in most of my part of the state in other areas and in Florida.  Ironically, many of the turkeys used by the DNR to stock  large parts of the state came from a county in the middle of an area of the state that did not have a season until the 80s...due to most of the land in Baker County being owned by wealthy sportsmen and being intensively managed for quail, Turkey always did good there. What is good for quail is normally good for turkeys.  My family's property is in Mitchell Co. on the banks of the Flint river, bordering Baker Co.  The plantation across the river is one of the plantations that allowed the DNR to trap turkeys for transplant.  We always had a large number on our land, and when we finally got a season in the late 80s it was "game on" for a bunch of birds that had never been talked to by a hunter. I only take kids turkey hunting now and call for them, though I did recently get an old L. C. Smith that I would like to harvest a turkey with, hence a post in this forum about low pressure turkey loads and if they exist out there. I want to try it old school, no head to toe camo, a box call or wing bone call and an old double barreled shotgun, even considering wearing a neck tie like in my avatar photo like the gentlemen sports did in days gone by.


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## DRBugman85 (Feb 1, 2021)

redneck_billcollector said:


> Turkey hunting in modern times in GA is a relatively new thing in my neck of the woods. I hunted them before they were legal in most of my part of the state in other areas and in Florida.  Ironically, many of the turkeys used by the DNR to stock  large parts of the state came from a county in the middle of an area of the state that did not have a season until the 80s...due to most of the land in Baker County being owned by wealthy sportsmen and being intensively managed for quail, Turkey always did good there. What is good for quail is normally good for turkeys.  My family's property is in Mitchell Co. on the banks of the Flint river, bordering Baker Co.  The plantation across the river is one of the plantations that allowed the DNR to trap turkeys for transplant.  We always had a large number on our land, and when we finally got a season in the late 80s it was "game on" for a bunch of birds that had never been talked to by a hunter. I only take kids turkey hunting now and call for them, though I did recently get an old L. C. Smith that I would like to harvest a turkey with, hence a post in this forum about low pressure turkey loads and if they exist out there. I want to try it old school, no head to toe camo, a box call or wing bone call and an old double barreled shotgun, even considering wearing a neck tie like in my avatar photo like the gentlemen sports did in days gone by.


Well GETRDUN


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## antharper (Feb 27, 2021)

twoheartedale said:


> I killed the first turkey on my uncles farm in 1994.  They have owned the land since the late 1700's.


What county if you don’t mind sharing , I grew up in Coffee and I’d guess it was in the 80’s when we got a season


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## Sautee Ridgerunner (Feb 27, 2021)

twoheartedale said:


> I killed the first turkey on my uncles farm in 1994.  They have owned the land since the late 1700's.



Your uncle is over 200 years old?  Jeez, he looks fantastic.


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