# Problem sighting in my M/L



## mlmathis123 (Oct 8, 2008)

I need some advice. My wife bought me a M/L from walmart as a gift. Traditions Yukon .50cal I'm shooting 245 grain Hornady Sabots , Triple 7 Pellets and winchester 209 primers. The load I tried to sight-in with was 100 grain Triple 7 Pellets at 100 yards. At 25 yards the group looked  fair I just wanted to get on paper and then move out to 100 yards. I cleaned after every shot including the breech plug and fired every round from a rest to make sure I was steady. All I seemed to get is flier's all over the place, nothing consistent at all. Here is a pic of what the grouping looked like. Any thoughts please  ?


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## aaronward9 (Oct 8, 2008)

i tried shooting several different types of loads out of my CVA Kodiak and what I have found to work best is:

100 gr 777 loose powder
winchester 209 primer
295 hollow point powerbelt bullet

i shot mine the other day twice at 100 yards and the holes were about 1 in apart. i'm going back tomorrow to get it in the crosshairs.  i'll let you know the results.


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## mlmathis123 (Oct 8, 2008)

I haven't tried the loose powder. Maybe thats a option I need to try. Let me know how it shoots.

Mike


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## will hunt 4 food (Oct 8, 2008)

The loose powder isn't as convenient but is always better. IMO.


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## stevetarget (Oct 8, 2008)

heres a couple things to check
1) if you are using the new Hornady slick sabots try some of the older black ones. MMP makes them. the slick sabots are so slick that they won't shoot well in one of my guns. the primer is apparently moving the sabot/bullet down the bore before the powder ignites. this causes eratic shots.
2) if your sabots are losing petals it will also cause the same thing.
3) if your scope has a problem with mounting or is broken you might see something similar.


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## Gote Rider (Oct 8, 2008)

Are you shooting open sights or a scope?


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## Eyeluv2hunt (Oct 8, 2008)

Unfortunately each muzzleloader is different. Provided your rest is sound, your scope is tight and your aim is true, then its most likely a matter of finding the right load for your gun. I shoot a .45cal CVA Optima Pro and I went through 5 different types of bullets using both 100gr and 150 gr 777 pellets. It finally liked 100gr with 180gr T/C Super 45 XR Sabots with XTP Magnum bullets. But that is just what my gun likes. This sabot is fairly hard to load. 2 of the others I tried were easily loaded, but shot poorly. Not sure if the fit had anything to do with it, but it is what it is. If everything is tight then it looks like you should try a different sabot/bullet and vary the powder load and see how it shoots in your gun. Good Luck with it


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## Dead Eye Eddy (Oct 8, 2008)

If you're using a scope, I'd check all the screws in the rings and bases to make sure they're tight.  Try some 295-grain Powerbelt Copper Plated Hollow Points.  I've shot them in 3 different guns now on top of both 100 and 150 grain loads of pyrodex pellets, and they shot well in every gun.  If changing bullets doesn't help, then you've probably got a bad scope.  I have one of the $60 Walmart Simmons 4-12x40's on my ML, and it holds zero and stands up to 150 grain loads well.


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## BSMER (Oct 9, 2008)

*muzzle loader*

Try this. Don't clean the gun until you have fired around 10 shots then only swab the bore. All guns aren't as accurate as they can be until the muzzle is slightly fowled. It is always a good idea to shoot one round out of a cleaned muzzleloader to fowl the bore before sighting in or hunting. This clears out any water or cleaning solution from the nipple, breech plug and the bore.


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## OkieHunter (Oct 9, 2008)

Myself I shoot 2 or 3 Pyrodex pellets under a 240 grain XTP handgun bullet in mag express sabots in my Encore and I get clover leaf groups with either load. And like you I always clean between every round as The first shot you shoot while hunting is from a cold clean barrel


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## Mistrfish (Oct 9, 2008)

I had the same problem until I switched to powerbelt for my 54cal.  They are more money but are worth every penny.


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## Jim Thompson (Oct 9, 2008)

when you first show up at the range you should shoot a primer just as a fouling shot so to speak.

dont do a full clean between shots.  leave the breech plug in and run one wet patch down the barrel (I use patches wet with cleaner, some use spit and others use alcohol) and then a dry patch.

shoot again.

swab again

shoot again etc

make sure to let the barrel cool between shots.

trying different combinations of bullet and powder might help. when I was shooting 777 my encore liked 100 grains and 250 grain TC shockwaves best.  it didnt pattern worth a flip with the powerbelts.  but like others have said each ML is a hair different.

let us know the results


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## yellowhammer (Oct 9, 2008)

*smokepole problem*

The best advice by far is switch to POWERBELTS.They even shoot good in traditional MLs.I would remove the scope,if there`s one on it,and remove each screw,then reinstall with blue Lok-Tite.(not nail polish).Then start over.You can`t try to  wiggle a scope with your hand and confirm that it`s tight.What I`m saying comes from personal experience.Rings may be tight on the gun but not on the scope,and vice-versa.


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## gobblehunter (Oct 9, 2008)

*Cheap advice*

All of the replies contain some good advice and unfortunately you will have to sort through it and conduct what could be some extensive and expensive trial and error, but trust me, in the end it will be worth it. I have been shooting frontloaders for quite a few years now, and I will offer you my opinion from the details that you provided, along with probably the CHEAPEST advice that may be the most important. This is based on extensive testing with T/C and CVA muzzleloaders.
It looks like your gun does not like a "squeaky clean" barrell, or needs a heavier bullet.Try this: 
1. Change your cleaning solution to a
    50/50 mix of Windex and alchohol. Run a wet patch 
    down (1) time, turn it over, and run it down again. 
    Follow with a dry patch (1 run). ** Important - make
    sure you clean EXACTLY the same way each time.
2. If you are using any kind of "lube" w/ the sabots - stop.
    This causes inconsistent gas pressures and will adversely
    affect your accuracy.
3. I am assuming that your primers are 209A shotshell 
    primers. Try switching to some of the 209 primers
    made specifically for muzzleloaders. There IS a 
    difference, but it depends on your gun as to
    whether or not it will make a difference. My T/C loves
    CCI MZ primers, but my CVA shoots great w/ 209A's.
4. After trying #1-3 (which will cost you less than $10), and
    if you are still having prob.'s, switch to a different brand
    of bullet. For your gun, I would suggest trying 295 gr.
    Powerbelts. 
 I would be glad to share much more advice w/ you if
 you want. I'm almost certain that you will see a    difference with the suggestions I've offered, without shooting a hole in your wallet. You can PM me if you continue to have prob's, and I'll be glad to try and help you. Good luck!


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## mlmathis123 (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks guys for all the advice and help. It really means a lot to have someone that is willing to share their knowledge. I will let you know how it works out.

Once again thanks for all the help 

Mike Mathis


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## Craig Knight (Oct 12, 2008)

My T/C Black Diamond loves 245 gr XTP's and 130 grains of loose Triple 7 209 primers from Winchester. But shoots 2 times tighter groups if I dont clean it at all till after about 15 ,17 shots. The shots around 8 thru 13 or 14 are the best ones.


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## bevills1 (Oct 14, 2008)

My TC Black Diamond shoots very well with sabots and 100 grains of fresh Pyrodex pellets which is powder that was tried first, but 1 year old Pyrodex pellets gives results very similar to mlmathis123.  Last year I tried fresh Jim Shockey's Gold FFG powder with identical similar mlmathis123 results.  Last week I tried the new Blackhorn 209 powder and got bullet holes touching size groups.  

I suspect this is due to some black powder substitutes absorption of moisture thus causing inconsistent propellant charges.  The new Blackhorn 209 does not absorb moisture and is more powerful as well as much easier to clean and may be cleaned just like guns firing smokeless powder loads.  Note Blackhorn 209 is for use with 209 shotsehll primers and in inline guns only.


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## Jim Thompson (Oct 14, 2008)

bevills1 said:


> My TC Black Diamond shoots very well with sabots and 100 grains of fresh Pyrodex pellets which is powder that was tried first, but 1 year old Pyrodex pellets gives results very similar to mlmathis123.  Last year I tried fresh Jim Shockey's Gold FFG powder with identical similar mlmathis123 results.  Last week I tried the new Blackhorn 209 powder and got bullet holes touching size groups.
> 
> I suspect this is due to some black powder substitutes absorption of moisture thus causing inconsistent propellent charges.  The new Blackhorn 209 does not absorb moisture and is more powerful as well as much easier to clean and may be cleaned just like guns firing smokeless powder loads.  Note Blackhorn 209 is for use with 209 shotsehll primers and in inline guns only.




did I mention I USED to shoot 777?  man I love my BH209 !!!


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## mlmathis123 (Oct 15, 2008)

Been working 12 hour swing shift. I'm going tp Bass pro on friday and pick up some BH209 and head to the range to try it out. I want to thank everyone for all the wealth of information.'
Have a good opening day on Saturday and shoot straight.

Mike Mathis


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