# Arrow Tuning Head Explosion



## Trad Matt (Dec 19, 2016)

Hello all. Trying to get my setup ready to hunt with and I have a feeling I'm over thinking it but at this point I can't tell which arrows to prepare. Bow is a Morrison ILF 15" with super short limbs 47# @26. I draw about 27.5 and backed the bolts most of the way. I can't verify exactly what I'm shooting but it is more than 40 and less than 50. The arrows I have both oddly shoot the same: GT Trad 1535s (600 spine) 30" 125gr head ; Cabelas Carbon Stalker 45/60s (500 spine) 30" 125gr head. 

I'm tempted to take the 600s and have an inch cut off though both bareshaft weak. I'm lead to believe that the 500 shows a false weak and perhaps the 600 is an accurate one. I can't imagine 500 would be weak in my bow and am told going 400 would be overspined. I guess I can take both to have an inch cut off and see what happens.

Open to thoughts I can shoot both fletched well. Need to take one set hunting in a few days. Thanks!

Edit: Keep getting a token error on photos...


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## Barry Duggan (Dec 19, 2016)

An inch is a whole lotta arrow to cut off at one time.
Cut 1/4" at a time and sneak up on it. Keep in mind you can't cut them too long, but you can cut them too short, in the blink of a eye.
I've got a fairly decent size box containing cut 'em too shorts.


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## Clipper (Dec 19, 2016)

I agree with Barry about 1" being to drastic.  Before you cut you can go to a lighter head and if your arrow is too weak it should show improvement.  You can also shoot a fletched arrow through paper at 12'-15' to tell what it is doing as well.  Don't believe the articles that tell you to paper tune at 6'.  From my experience you won't get true results.

Are you bare shaft tuning based on nock left or right or based on where bare shafts group in relation to where fletched shafts group.  I would do it both ways because errors in form or release can affect how a bare shaft flies and give false readings   The comparison of bare shaft group to fletched shaft group will give you more reliable tuning info.  The article at the link below explains how to do this if you don't know.  Click on the link for bare shaft planing.
http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html

Good luck and good hunting.


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## KevinK (Dec 19, 2016)

If your bow is listed 47#@ 26" and your DL is 27.5 then you are pulling approximately 50#, maybe just a tad higher. I hesitate to say both arrows are weak for fear of the spine troll attacking me (Oh wait that's another board, lol). No seriously I think you are a little weak spined with both arrows. The GT arrows definitely, the others hard to say since it is a store brand. Here's my advice. For a starting point use Stu Miller's spine calculator. Enter info correctly, use 13.5 for a GT insert (what mine weight with low temp hot melt glue), 11.5-12 grains for a GT nock (I use Easton super nocks which are 12.9 and all pretty close), Don't forget the weight of any wrap used for fletching weight (typically 1 grain per inch in length unless thick) and 3 grains per 4 inch feather or 4 grains per 5 inch feather. Don't forget the thickness of your striker plate. 
http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller/V2 Dynamic Spine Calculator Rev 12-25-10 v2.xls


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## KevinK (Dec 19, 2016)

Forgot to mention don't forget the minimum grain per pound for your bow. I think the GT 1535 you mention only weighs around 400 grains with what you listed, maybe a little less, 400/50=8gpp, is that acceptable per the bowyer's recommendation? You might want something heavier for hunting as well (at least weight wise).


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## Stump Shooter (Dec 19, 2016)

I would watch the Ken Beck arrow tuning video on YouTube. This pretty much laid it out for me. Make changes and see what effect the changes have on the bare shaft then you can start to understand what is happening. Like Barry said no more than 1/4" at a time. South Georgia and North Georgia Traditional have shoots coming up don't get frustrated show up to one of these  and by the time you leave you will have it figured out, lot of knowledge at these shoots. I shoot a Das Dalaa set at 45lb about a 27" draw. Gold Tip 3555 cut to about 28 and 1/4" with 50gr insert and 125gr head, this bare shaft flies pretty straight.


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## Trad Matt (Dec 19, 2016)

The bow is backed off a little. I doubt it's 50# because I have a hard time pulling my 50# Martin. I've heard people hunting from 8 to 12 it comes in at 8.6 GPP I really don't think it's going to have a hard time getting through a whitetail. At least not what I have read elsewhere. 

I have watched a lot of the videos and read that's why I show I said it looks weak as its nock left / but relatively flat showing it isn't a nock issue. I plan on going to the 3d shoot in January. It's pretty close to me.


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## Stump Shooter (Dec 20, 2016)

That type bow will fool you it shoots pretty hard I could not shoot the 1535 in My Das at 45lbs because they were to weak, but I can shoot them in my Big Jim longbow at 48lbs. I am betting you are going to need to step up in spine  a 3555 maybe. Don't break the bank just buy one arrow and work with it.


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## Trad Matt (Dec 20, 2016)

It's under the advice of an experienced gentlemen I am giving the 1535s a try. I have a 500 spine Cabelas Stalker Xtreme that is also shafting weak. The 1535s make a heavier arrow slightly. I'm going to have both trimmed today and see if I can get any straighter flight. Sadly without there being stores near me it's hard for me to get any other arrows. Going to South GA to hunt with family and am trying to be prepared. I'm the only one who shoots trad arrows.


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## Mudfeather (Dec 20, 2016)

My experience has been to get a bare shaft flying straight like a dart it takes a to stiff arrow. Black Widows fly well with a to stiff arrow because they are cut so far past center. Odcock use to say for get the way the arrow sticks in the bale and focus on where it hits. If it hits in the right place you are there. I have some that will stick in the bale showing weak but hit the right spot. They fly great with fletches and broadheads. An arrow that is slightly weak will be more forgiving of grip issues than one that is slightly stiff.


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## Barry Duggan (Dec 20, 2016)

If I don't leave mine a skid mark weak...they usually find their way into the cut too short box.


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## Jake Allen (Dec 20, 2016)

If those are Morison Limbs, (aka Border), they could be weight rated on a 19" riser. If so, with the bolts in the middle, you may be looking at 53#'s at your draw.
But, it can be hard to calculate, as Bob has in the past changed the limb pocket angles on his risers.
Also, those limbs may be starting to stack at 27 1/2".
I would think Medium length limbs would be a better fit for your draw.

A trick to cut carbon shafts that I used before I got a saw:
Wrap 2 layers of a good quality masking tape around the shaft where you want to cut. Take a 24 tooth per inch hack saw blade and put it into the saw frame backwards.
Secure the shaft where it will not vibrate. (I uses a vise with wood blocks, being careful not to crush the shaft, leaving only about 1/8" extending from the jaws)
Cut all the way thru the shaft. Remove the tape and block the end with 320 or finer sandpaper. Then, rub a little CA glue on the cut end.
I bet I have successfully cut several hundred carbons this way.


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## pine nut (Dec 20, 2016)

You are getting a right smart of great advice from some very experienced folks here, and all of them are very good.  Al Chapman posted a post  about Ben-T-Bows  and I found it very helpful for a simplified, understandable video on the "how tos" of bow and arrow tuning.  Dennis also helped me by telling me to mark my target with a vertical line and line up shooting on that line.  Styrofoam is best but I used a foam bale, ( it's what I had),  Ben-T-Bows, mentioned above, recommended a new Bag target.  They have several videos at that site and even I could understand it by watching !LOL.  Al's post had a link, and I think his post was titled, " I'm liking this site I just found", I believe.  I'll look for it and see if I can post it for you.


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## pine nut (Dec 20, 2016)

Try this, or copy and paste in your browser, and it should get you close!  Link worked for me.

https://vimeo.com/170908495


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## Trad Matt (Dec 20, 2016)

Definitely a plethora of information! I think I need to post a photo or two for reference here. My arrow is doing the same Mud - hits essentially where I want it just wonky. The 1535s are flying better for me after looking at photos I took last night I seem to be more consistent with them than the stiffer Carbon Stalkers. 

Jake- I believe Bob rates his limbs on a 15" or 17" riser. I know he personally shoots a mini and I'm almost positive he doesn't rate them on the 19" but you bring a good point. Without a proper scale I only have myself. I had TT 40#  wood/glass shorts on it briefly before these and these are slightly heavier but overall more smooth in the draw. I talked with Bob extensively about wanting the SS and draw length concerns he told me his limbs usually don't stack until around 29" or so. Either way I get a smooth draw all the way through with how I have it set up. Unless the smoothness of the limbs are just that great I can't believe I can pull this bow with relative ease in comparison to my 50# Martin. 

I guess I really need a bow scale or something because that seems to be a huge factor. I'll add pictures to the OP.


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## sawtooth (Dec 20, 2016)

Mudfeather said:


> My experience has been to get a bare shaft flying straight like a dart it takes a to stiff arrow. Black Widows fly well with a to stiff arrow because they are cut so far past center. Odcock use to say for get the way the arrow sticks in the bale and focus on where it hits. If it hits in the right place you are there. I have some that will stick in the bale showing weak but hit the right spot. They fly great with fletches and broadheads. An arrow that is slightly weak will be more forgiving of grip issues than one that is slightly stiff.



Thank you. Now I don't have to type all that.  I think this tuning thing is way more time consuming than it needs to be. A few grains here and a few grains there- IT DOES NOT MATTER! A post it note weighs 6 grains. So adding up components grain for grain is a waste of time. Nobody here can shoot good enough to tell the difference. Stop chasing a "perfect" bare shaft. Find an arrow that is slightly WEAK- put feathers on it- go enjoy your hunt.


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## Trad Matt (Dec 20, 2016)

Great Dicks in my area fired their only bowtech. I found that out after waiting an hour. Now I have no way to cut these and I just don't trust myself to do it how Jake does nor do I even have a saw or vice. Guess I'll make due.


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## Dennis (Dec 20, 2016)

Where in Ga. are you located if your close I can help and cut arrows if needed. I have all the stuff for tuning you might need


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## pine nut (Dec 20, 2016)

Dennis said:


> Where in Ga. are you located if your close I can help and cut arrows if needed. I have all the stuff for tuning you might need



Including the know how!


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## Trad Matt (Dec 20, 2016)

Dennis said:


> Where in Ga. are you located if your close I can help and cut arrows if needed. I have all the stuff for tuning you might need



I live in Alpharetta. Not sure how close you are. I may end up going to Cabelas to tune my bow. You may be closer.


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## Barry Duggan (Dec 21, 2016)

Dennis said:


> Where in Ga. are you located if your close I can help and cut arrows if needed. I have all the stuff for tuning you might need



Yeah, you need to get on up there and see Dennis. He'll have you hitting a foot on either side of where you are looking, in no time flat.

Just kidding, It would be well worth the trip.


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## AllAmerican (Dec 21, 2016)

Arrow tuning: don't think the Native Americans did that, just get three spines within your bow weight, shoot til one of then sticks straight (after cutting 1/4 " at a time, but staying with 3/4" from your shelf) fletch, shoot.


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