# GSP's first quail hunt. Advice



## JohnBenoit09 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have an 8 month old German shorthaired pointer that is a great dog. I have introduced him to gun shots, e-collar training, and have done no work with live birds yet. Well, this weekend I am taking him to hunt quail on a friend's plantation. We have an English Cocker that is an excellent hunter with MANY championship titles to his name that will serve as the flush/retriever dog. We have 125 pen raised quail that are going to be planted throughout the plantation for several of us to hunt. My dog, Ruger, has pointed several wild quail on my private farm and locked up on point perfectly. I have done no whoa training as of now since I am progressing slowly into each training command. He does well on all of my commands, but I haven't had the chance to put him on any live birds. What would you suggest me to do or keep an eye out for? I am going to have him on a check cord as well as his shock collar at first to make sure he does well at first. Say he does excellent and point’s great at the first few quail, can I let him off the check cord for him to work freely given he knows my commands? He loves the sound of guns and knows that when a gun fires, he is to retrieve. I hope he does well this weekend and I will post several pictures after our hunt. So is there any advice for me when hunting these quail since he hasn’t hunted yet? I am mostly intending to not shoot any and just use this opportunity to work with Ruger on training. -Thanks


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## Jim P (Feb 8, 2012)

The people that are going with you should  know that your dog is a pup and he will make mistakes, my own opinion is I think he is to young for the e-collar he needs to be a puppy first, he more then likely will bust birds just having fun, be easy on the guy and let him grow up a little.


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## Nitram4891 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well, first thing to hope for is some cooler weather.  I wouldn't be too hard on your dog but one thing that hunts with friends sometimes do is put a lot of pressure on you to ensure that your dog delivers.  125 birds is a lot of money and they are going to want to kill them all.  Problem is, if your dog is picking up bad habits, or just having an off day (they all do), you will want to keep going and sometimes it's in the dog's best interest to just pull him off for the day.  If you haven't worked your dog on pen birds before, 125 the first day is insane.  Those birds will run, they will flush in your dogs face, they will fly low, and your dog will probably end up catching some.   If your dog is ready, you know it then turn him loose, if he isn't ready to be off a check cord, you are going to hurt him by turning him loose on 125 birds.  You mentioned that there will be a flushing dog, if your dog has any drive, and it is his first time working with a flushing dog, I promise you he is going to break the first time that cocker runs by him.


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## wilber85 (Feb 8, 2012)

Have fun!  

Be mindful of how well the birds fly.  You dont want him to catch one.  A lot of times pen raised birds want to run or dont fly very far.  I think the cc is a good idea.


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## JohnBenoit09 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks alot! I am very mindful of making sure he is healthy and hydrated at all times. I have seen him run at our farm from 7am-6pm and boy does he have TONS of energy. If he is having an off day we have 60+ other bird dogs as back up. He possibly may be working with other pointers, but I have no doubt he will perform well. I introduced him to the e-collar at a young age, but I have used it only as a back-up tool and never abused it. I have him on a strict training program and he is on top of his command's for an 8 month old pup. Thanks again and I will post pictures after the hunt. Cant wait to hear them flush and his dog bell in the brush!


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## Nitram4891 (Feb 8, 2012)

JohnBenoit09 said:


> Thanks alot! I am very mindful of making sure he is healthy and hydrated at all times. I have seen him run at our farm from 7am-6pm and boy does he have TONS of energy. If he is having an off day we have 60+ other bird dogs as back up. He possibly may be working with other pointers, but I have no doubt he will perform well. I introduced him to the e-collar at a young age, but I have used it only as a back-up tool and never abused it. I have him on a strict training program and he is on top of his command's for an 8 month old pup. Thanks again and I will post pictures after the hunt. Cant wait to hear them flush and his dog bell in the brush!



Does he back naturally or did you teach him?


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## wilber85 (Feb 8, 2012)

I am sure the day will have ups and downs.  Be proud of him and take mental notes of what you need to work on. Introducing birds can have interesting effects on a dogs discipline.  Like Nitram said, 100+ birds for his first day is a lot of birds.  I would run him by himself.  Usually a dog is introduced to birds only a couple at a time over a couple months.  I might take him out for a couple, see what you are working with, and then put him up.  Its not a matter of energy as much as keeping the drive up for the dog and not letting him get bored or make too many mistakes.  End on a good note.

Oh and take some pics and post them up so we can see him.


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## StevePickard (Feb 8, 2012)

Since this is his first time on birds, let him be a puppy and have fun.  If he points and holds great,  and if he points then runs up birds and chases, that is fine too. Some may disagree, but the first season, I do not discourage the pup from chasing birds  when they flush...especially on his first outings, but I do try, at all cost, to keep him from catching a bird if the planted birds are not good flyers.  The chasing actually, IMO, help develop drive and desire and after a little while, if the birds are good flyers, it will help him understand that he cannot catch the birds and his job is to point the birds....instinct will kick in.  The most important thing is to introduce him to the birds and let him have fun.
I would refrain from hunting your pup with the Cocker just from the fact that the Cocker is a flushing dog and your dog is a pointing dog.  At your pups young and impressionable age, you don't want him to get the idea that he should do as the Cocker does and flush birds by following the Cocker's lead.  When he's older and steady to wing and shot then the pointers and flushers can work together, but if it were me, I'd hunt the dogs seperately.
Unless you have been using the e-collar to re-enforce come/here, I'd leave the collar off of him.  I can't think of anything, other than come, that you would want to use the e-collar for on this outing.  It would make a very bad impression on him during his first outing on birds if he received stimulation if he did something you perceived as something a pointer should not do. He's probably going to make mistakes the first time out, but this outing should be about letting him have fun.  Don't take a chance that he might associate birds and stimulation on his first outing.  
Hope for the best, but do not expect it...he's a pup and on his first introduction to bird and the main objective is to let him have fun and learn these are the critters he was born to hunt with no pressure! There will be plenty of time for pressure in the future when he has more experience.  This first outing will help you learn his strengths and weaknesses so just have fun watching your dog and see what kind of natural ability he has.
Steve


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## tom turkey 2x2 (Feb 8, 2012)

*1 st hunt*

whatever you do , please do not use the shock collar on  him for anything that a bird is involved or he might associate with a bird!


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## GLS (Feb 9, 2012)

I am a rookie bird dog trainer and have been coached by Steve and the Hickcox dvd.  This is the "happy time" as Hickcox calls it for a puppy discovering birds and guns.  This is no time for the e-collar as has been pointed out--you don't want him associating birds with shock because nothing will chill his desire for birds worse.  With that many birds, you'll have a lot of pressure on you for your pup to be good and that is not fair for you or the dog.  I have been fortunate to have the help of friends with birds.  Abby, my pup, has been on birds 12 days this season and she just turned one.  She has had very good days and very bad days.  I have used varying lengths of check cords to keep her from chasing poor flyers--sometimes it works. 
Our routine is to let my buddy work his older Britt  on 5 planted birds, he handles the dog, I shoot.  We put him up, plant 5 more birds and work Abby; he shoots, I handle Abby.  We then let out the trainees and his 7 year old Quail Vacuum Britt, Snap, to mop up escapees.  I use the check cord on Abby to teach her to back.  It has been a fun experience and with a summer to train her further on obedience, next year should be better.  The team approach is useful, especially since Floyd is a skilled dog trainer who is very gentle with his dogs and has had a lifetime of birddogs.  He understands the usefulness of one, but has never used an e-collar on his dogs.  Good luck.


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## Sam H (Feb 9, 2012)

As Steve , tom turkey and others have said.....LAY OFF the ecollar ,on this being his introduction to birds...You DO NOT want him to associate the ecollar with birds , at this point , in any shape ,form or fashion!.......
Second and extremely important....make sure or make a serious attempt to NOT let him catch birds...I KNOW this first hand , as I am having to break my 21mo old Britt this season from breaking on birds , because she caught them as a pup...Its a heck of a job to keep her steady now , but she is finally starting to get it...But has taken this entire season to get her corrected...it ain't fun and aggrevating....so as Steve said , if your birds are good flyers and he has no chance of catching the birds , just let him chase and yall have a bunch of fun!!

Also....What GLS has posted , is some extremely good advice...work as a team for introduction to birds...it will make the introduction to birds , alot more productive for the future


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## maker4life (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm a little confused . If he's pointed several wild quail then this won't be his first live bird work . 

I'd go ahead and use the collar , you're going to need to control him . Just don't be nicking him if he starts creeping on scent . That's how you can cause blinking .

Let him chase but you'll have the collar on to keep him reeled in . Also you never know what else you may come across and if he's running after a deer headed towards  Irwin county you'll be glad he's wearing it .


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## JohnBenoit09 (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks for the responses! I know not to abuse the e-collar and have used it strategically only as a training enforcement tool. He is used to the collar and knows that there is no negative relation when it is on. I would only use the e-collar if I let him off the check cord depending on his actions to enforce the "here" command if he was to run off. He knows that "here" means here, so the e-collar will more than likely never be used. I have read tons of material on dog training and watched the PS/PF DVD series as well as many other videos so I have the basic knowledge of dog handling, but know that there is never too much information to know. 

When stated that I've never trained him on live birds, I rather meant that I have not planted, launched, or hobbled a pen raised bird for us to solely work on whoa, etc. On my farm we are lucky to have several wild coveys throughout the land. It was a sight to see Ruger accomplish his first point on a wild covey at 4 months of age and acted like he was trained champion. My grandfather used to quail hunt our farm growing up each day after school with his bird dog. The thought of me being able to experience this on the same land he used to hunt really dedicated me to train Ruger. Over Ruger's life, (only 8 months) he has come in contact with several wild quail and naturally pointed as if he was trained to work birds. I know that the natural instinct of his breed is the sole purpose of this. Although I have not trained Ruger with "planted" birds, he has been in contact with quail, but just not to the extent as I would want for me to take him on his first real hunt. I am mostly using this opportunity as a way to introduce Ruger to hunting quail and know that he may act up and not perform as a trained dog, which I am completely happy with. As long as Ruger has a fun and eventful day running through the woods, I will be very happy and proud of him! Thanks, -John


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