# Chicken for a dog



## red neck richie (Jul 13, 2017)

My lab is afraid of gun fire, thunder, fireworks. Whenever she hears it she takes off and hides. Any suggestions to break her of her fear? I started shooting around her when she was a pup to try to get her use to the noise but she is still afraid. She turned into more of a family pet than a hunting dog. I had to put the vest on her because she will take off after birds in the lake and wear her self out trying to catch them.


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## tucker80 (Jul 13, 2017)

Maybe take some 22 blanks out. When she goes after the birds, let her get some distance and then shoot. She'll be distracted by the bird, but all the while putting 2 & 2 together. You have to be careful, her pace not yours. May work, may not. Keep her inside around fireworks. Teach her guns = birds Good luck


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## red neck richie (Jul 13, 2017)

tucker80 said:


> Maybe take some 22 blanks out. When she goes after the birds, let her get some distance and then shoot. She'll be distracted by the bird, but all the while putting 2 & 2 together. You have to be careful, her pace not yours. May work, may not. Keep her inside around fireworks. Teach her guns = birds Good luck



Thanks for the tip I will give it a try.


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## atlashunter (Jul 13, 2017)

Much easier to avoid a gun shy dog than to cure one of it. What I did with my lab when I had one and he was a pup was I would feed him outside. While he is occupied with the food walk off a good ways and fire a single 22 round. The first time it happens it will startle them and they will look up. Don't pay them any attention, don't even look at them and definitely don't console them as if there was something to be afraid of even if they react more strongly to it. Just go about your business like nothing happened. Repeat that every day and gradually get closer to them as they adjust to it. You have to go at their pace. With mine it didn't take him long and I could fire right over him and it didn't phase him. It was associated with something pleasurable. With yours being gun shy you may have to use something even more muffled like a subsonic 22 or even some other pop that she can handle. Maybe that's a popping balloon. Maybe it's a loud clap or a cap gun. Find what she can handle and start there. Be consistent and gradually work your way up. It's not guaranteed to work but that is probably your best shot at getting her over it.


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## king killer delete (Jul 14, 2017)

take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.


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## flatsmaster (Jul 14, 2017)

go to gun dog supply .... theres a 2 dvd set system that deals with gun shy dogs and it sounds like with some success ... or call Steve at gun dog supply and get his feedback on it ... like said its easier if it never happened but it has so it maybe a option for you ... good luck


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## red neck richie (Jul 14, 2017)

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.


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## atlashunter (Jul 14, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.



Hope you're joking.


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## Water Swat (Jul 14, 2017)

Really much easier to let this one be your riding buddy and buy a new hunting dog.


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## tucker80 (Jul 14, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.



Then you'll be able to add "box shy" to the list. Tell her to load up and she'll be "hands up don't shoot" !!! Lol


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## GLS (Jul 16, 2017)

I bought a couple of one dollar cap pistols that I would shoot in the kitchen when the dogs were about six months old and feeding.  Before then, it was clanking pots and pans with a spoon.  Annoyed everyone but the dogs in the house.  After a few weeks of cap pistols, I took them to a buddy's place with live birds and a .410.  He discharged at 100  yards when the pup flushed the bird.  He closed in 25 yard increments and shot when the bird flushed with the dog in pursuit.  The dogs never reacted adverse to the shot and the final shot was behind the dog when the flush occurred.  I cringe when I hear that someone is going to gun break a dog with a 12 gauge by shooting it near the dog for the first time it hears gunfire.


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## wildlands (Jul 16, 2017)

I started mine while distracted with food also having some fire a good distance off and working closer over a couple of weeks to slowly introduce the noise. Then I worked with mine during squirrel season. By dropping a few squirrel in front of them they quickly realized the shot meant something good was fixing to drop from the tree. Problem is they now run to the shot.


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## jerry russell (Jul 17, 2017)

flatsmaster said:


> go to gun dog supply .... theres a 2 dvd set system that deals with gun shy dogs and it sounds like with some success ... or call Steve at gun dog supply and get his feedback on it ... like said its easier if it never happened but it has so it maybe a option for you ... good luck



This is good advice.   Take it.  

Some of the other post here are not something you should even consider.  The dog got this way by not being properly conditioned to gun fire.  It is not impossible to repair the damage but it is very difficult.  
It will take patience and doing it right.


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## onedude (Jul 17, 2017)

Seems like some dogs are just that way. We had a dog (not a lab) that was afraid of thunder when I was growing up. My dad thought it had been shocked by lightning. 
I have a lab now that has no interest in retrieving anything. Cant get it interested either. Don't know what the deal is with that.
doug
Jn. 3:16


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## jerry russell (Jul 17, 2017)

flatsmaster said:


> go to gun dog supply .... theres a 2 dvd set system that deals with gun shy dogs and it sounds like with some success ... or call Steve at gun dog supply and get his feedback on it ... like said its easier if it never happened but it has so it maybe a option for you ... good luck



This is good advice.   Take it.  

Some of the other post here are not something you should even consider.  The dog got this way by not being properly conditioned to gun fire.  It is not impossible to repair the damage but it is very difficult.  
It will take patience and doing it right.


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## RacinNut (Jul 17, 2017)

I agree with Water Swat, get another Lab. and made sure it does not get scared,  seems to me once a Lab. get scared its scared, but he could be the best Lab even,  Labs are such good dogs, 2 is better than 1, I have always had 2, just love the Lab for what it is, a good dog, I have never had a bad Lab. just different Labs.


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## NE GA Pappy (Jul 17, 2017)

Water Swat said:


> Really much easier to let this one be your riding buddy and buy a new hunting dog.



here's your answer


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## rvick (Jul 19, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.



    Someone might think you are serious


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## treemanjohn (Jul 27, 2017)

Start as a pup but you can break them sometimes as an adult. Put about an inch of gravel in a clorox bottle. Shake it loudly to startle them. Pretty soon they'll ignore it. THEN work up to blanks or gunshots. Puppies will pay no attention to it after a few days


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## king killer delete (Jul 27, 2017)

rvick said:


> Someone might think you are serious



Delmar Smith a famous bird dog trainer in Texas talked a type of oil well that would pop off the natural gas. He would take a gun shy dog and put the dog on a pen with food and water. The well poped off continually. When he would return the dog would be cured of his gun shyness


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## king killer delete (Jul 27, 2017)

http://www.gundogsupply.com/gunshycure.html


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## king killer delete (Jul 27, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> Delmar Smith a famous bird dog trainer in Texas talked about a type of oil well that would pop off the natural gas. He would take a gun shy dog and put the dog on a pen with food and waterlocated near the well .The well poped off continually. When he would return the dog would be cured of his gun shyness


Same concept. Better to not create the problem. Just like throwing a puppy into extreme cold water on a freezing day. That will break a true water dog from loving the water.


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## atlashunter (Jul 28, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> Delmar Smith a famous bird dog trainer in Texas talked a type of oil well that would pop off the natural gas. He would take a gun shy dog and put the dog on a pen with food and water. The well poped off continually. When he would return the dog would be cured of his gun shyness



That's interesting because Bill Tarrant wrote the book on the Delmar Smith method as well as many other books on retriever training. In those books he chided those who recommend putting a dog on a firing line and instead recommends the method of gradual introduction others here have described. Maybe from the dogs perspective that pop on an oil well is far less traumatic than a firing range.


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## tucker80 (Jul 28, 2017)

The oil well is 24 7, becoming the norm. That's a huge difference from a 60 min shell shock trip to a range.


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## king killer delete (Aug 4, 2017)

tucker80 said:


> The oil well is 24 7, becoming the norm. That's a huge difference from a 60 min shell shock trip to a range.



The shell shock has already been done. I trained dogs as a pro for many years. Never had a gun shy lab. You know why? Because when I introduced gunfire to a puppy I did it the right way. The dog is already a wreck. What have you got to loose. As long as you protect the dog so the he can not run off I do not think he has any thing at this point he he can try to fix his dog. I would try anything to try to keep my  dog in the game. Chance is the dog is not Fixable.
No gun shy dogs here. Gun shy dogs are made.


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## atlashunter (Aug 17, 2017)

What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.


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## Para Bellum (Aug 18, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.



Agree 100% atlashunter.  Cruel and unusual to say the least.  There are much better ways to go about.


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## Jack Ryan (Sep 7, 2017)

I'm always afraid of my dogs going deaf because they all run TOWARD the gun fire and look for what ever you are shooting at.

I have to put them in a pen if I shoot much on the range of have company to shoot with.


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## king killer delete (Sep 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.


No I am not. This situation was created. I have trained many more gun dogs than most. Delmar Smith used this method to fix gun shy dogs. If the dog was exposed to gunfire continually it might fix the problem. Like I said might. The best way to prevent a gun shy dog is by proper conditioning. Its just like you create a Lab that does not want to go in the water . Take a puppy to a pond on a cold day and then when he does not want to go in the water because it is freezing and  you make him go . Guess what you just created a problem.


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## king killer delete (Sep 12, 2017)

Jack Ryan said:


> I'm always afraid of my dogs going deaf because they all run TOWARD the gun fire and look for what ever you are shooting at.
> 
> I have to put them in a pen if I shoot much on the range of have company to shoot with.


That is because your dog or dogs associate gun fire with something good. Proper conditioning. It tells you how to do this in about every gun dog training video or book out there.


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## king killer delete (Sep 12, 2017)

Metro Trout said:


> Agree 100% atlashunter.  Cruel and unusual to say the least.  There are much better ways to go about.


Yea by avoiding the problem to start with. Just like an e collar in the hands of some one who just bought it and has no idea how to use it. That happens every day.


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## Big7 (Sep 12, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.



That would make it worse.

If it won't hunt, it just won't. 

They make good pets and stick chaser's though.


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## king killer delete (Sep 12, 2017)

Big7 said:


> That would make it worse.
> 
> If it won't hunt, it just won't.
> 
> They make good pets and stick chaser's though.



What is your fix? For the problem . The man wants to try to fix his dog.


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## king killer delete (Sep 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> That's interesting because Bill Tarrant wrote the book on the Delmar Smith method as well as many other books on retriever training. In those books he chided those who recommend putting a dog on a firing line and instead recommends the method of gradual introduction others here have described. Maybe from the dogs perspective that pop on an oil well is far less traumatic than a firing range.


What would you do? To help this man? Tarrant is a writer. Never saw him at hunt test or a field trial. His methodology  is very dated just like Richard  Wolters and Richard and I were friends.


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## red neck richie (Sep 12, 2017)

Big7 said:


> That would make it worse.
> 
> If it won't hunt, it just won't.
> 
> They make good pets and stick chaser's though.



This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?


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## Big7 (Sep 12, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> What is your fix? For the problem . The man wants to try to fix his dog.



I have posted my "fix". 

How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.



red neck richie said:


> This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?




Probably will. Not really worth the risk. IMO.

king killer didn't get the memo. 

Sorry about the dog. If you are that into it, get
another one that is gun broke from a registered breeder.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2017)

red neck richie said:


> This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?


Birds might help with your old dog. I would try to get her interested in birds . dont fire a gun . just try some ducks and pigeons. Get her going on birds. 
Then see if you can introduce her at distance with a cap gun. Blow a duck call and use a bird boy to get the loud noise away  from her. Do give up. The other thought is make her a blood trail dog for downed and lost deer. just dont give up.
Make sure you have her on a check cord.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2017)

Big7 said:


> I have posted my "fix".
> 
> How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.
> 
> ...



No fix here just a wash out . Never heard of a registered breeder. If you get a puppy get a pup out of gun dog stock and go find a pro to help you with your puppy. When did you become expert on Gun shy dogs? A Gun broke puppy. Give me a brake. They got to be trained.


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## Big7 (Sep 13, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> No fix here just a wash out . Never heard of a registered breeder. If you get a puppy get a pup out of gun dog stock and go find a pro to help you with your puppy. When did you become expert on Gun shy dogs? A Gun broke puppy. Give me a brake. They got to be trained.



Prolly a BUNCH of stuff you never heard of. 

Try This:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=gun+br...-23&sk=&cvid=519A146DF7BA45658A06832C640DEB0D

Then try here: No shortage of breeder's and dogs.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=huntin...BAAFC6B14B464A88A210F9B23794D5&FORM=QBRE&sp=1

And to answer your other question:
About 40 years ago. 

To the OP. #3 is local if you want to check them out.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2017)

I think you are talking bird dog and I am talking retreiver. The dog pictured is a yellow lab not a bird dog. I am looking at it through a retreiver trainers eyes. Your talking apples and I am talking oranges. Training method and concepts are totally different.
A Arthur is good
http://www.findretrievers.com/search/ownerresults.php?PeopleID=19
This is local to and I know Al and Hugh. They are straight shooters.
Water Swat is on here and he is good to on Boykins.
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=113576
Here is some one that give you some good info on good blood lines in the retreiver world.    
RUTTNBUCK
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=1365
Joe Overby
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=91188

Someday I will show my National Retreiver club pin. 1985 National Retreiver championship pin. 
40 years for you means that I was already grown . Killed my first duck when I was ten in 61 and had been in the Army ten years when your 40 years started. LOL I will be 66 in November. I started in Retreiver Field trials in the mid seventys long before hunt test.


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## Big7 (Sep 13, 2017)

So, you are only twelve years older than me and got a late start.

And your point is?

Mine is there is no way to "break a gun shy" dog of
any breed, no matter the quarry.

Some will hunt, some won't.

Thank you for your service.
My late Father went in at 17 and retired with 42+ years.


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## tucker80 (Sep 13, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> Birds might help with your old dog. I would try to get her interested in birds . dont fire a gun . just try some ducks and pigeons. Get her going on birds. <
> Then see if you can introduce her at distance with a cap gun. Blow a duck call and use a bird boy to get the loud noise away  from her. Do give up. The other thought is make her a blood trail dog for downed and lost deer. just dont give up.
> Make sure you have her on a check cord.



Hmmm... seems like I said that in post 2
And to the OP. You asked about influence from another dog. The competition factor may help but it'll be by distraction and that's what the birds are doing. Distraction is the prey drive. And stay away from the fireworks.


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## king killer delete (Sep 13, 2017)

Big7 said:


> So, you are only twelve years older than me and got a late start.
> 
> And your point is?
> 
> ...


Yea I was in in 69 and retired in 90. I don't disagree. When I trained gun dogs it was hard to explain to owners that some would and some won't. In the Retreiver breeds gun shyness is created most times. I have seen skidish dogs brought round. My recommendations as far as the prey drive worked for me on several dogs.But I would say that this condition is created by folks not knowing how to introduce a puppy to gunfire. Now I am not saying this happened in this case. As far as going to the firing range at this point what have you got to loose? I don't think it would make the dog worse. Leave the dog in a dog box . Maybe just maybe you could recondition the dog not to care. The OP  has not much to loose at this point. I have dogs that refused to train but when you got them in a stick pond with feathers and birds falling it was a different story.
Not every dog is the same and not every program will work on every dog. Some are soft, some are tuff , some are just plain stupid and some seem to know what to do before you do.


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## atlashunter (Oct 10, 2017)

king killer delete said:


> I think you are talking bird dog and I am talking retreiver. The dog pictured is a yellow lab not a bird dog. I am looking at it through a retreiver trainers eyes. Your talking apples and I am talking oranges. Training method and concepts are totally different.
> A Arthur is good
> http://www.findretrievers.com/search/ownerresults.php?PeopleID=19
> This is local to and I know Al and Hugh. They are straight shooters.
> ...



If bird dogs and retrievers are apples and oranges then why were you citing a method by Delmar Smith who was a bird dog trainer not a retriever trainer?


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## atlashunter (Oct 10, 2017)

Big7 said:


> I have posted my "fix".
> 
> How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.
> 
> ...



Same here. I gave my fix. I agree with the others it may just be better to get another dog but I'll say this much. If that dog can't adjust to a moderate noise at a distance and gradually work up from there you sure as heck aren't going to get the dog over it by taking it to a firing range and exposing it to a barrage of gunfire. A lot of dogs have been made gunshy by ignorant owners doing that.


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## atlashunter (Oct 11, 2017)

Here you go Richie.

http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=9

This is from Rick Smith, the son of Delmar Smith who as KKD noted is a renowned (now retired) trainer. Echoes a lot of the advice you've received here. Keep the dog away from the gun range and try the method in this article if you are really dedicated to making this one a gun dog. Good luck.


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## red neck richie (Oct 12, 2017)

atlashunter said:


> Here you go Richie.
> 
> http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=9
> 
> This is from Rick Smith, the son of Delmar Smith who as KKD noted is a renowned (now retired) trainer. Echoes a lot of the advice you've received here. Keep the dog away from the gun range and try the method in this article if you are really dedicated to making this one a gun dog. Good luck.



Good article thanks for sharing.


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