# Is Joe Kurz worth it?



## ABBYS DAD (Jul 26, 2021)

Another WMA I've never hunted and would like to try out. Anyone recommend it? Thanks


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## Stickemdeep (Jul 26, 2021)

Is it worth what? The headache? not imo


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## Bowdawg (Jul 27, 2021)

Definitely my favorite. When you scout you usually see deer and you rarely get skunked at Joe Kurz. You usually see deer every time you hunt. I highly recommend the bow hunt in November. It has good genetics and is surrounded by farms. It would be nice to see the 100 inch to 110 inch bucks that get smoked every year get a pass but thats not going to happen on any wma .


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## ABBYS DAD (Jul 27, 2021)

Stickemdeep said:


> Is it worth what? The headache? not imo


What's the headache about it?


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## Dustin Pate (Jul 27, 2021)

It is still an above average WMA. I agree with Bowdawg that the potential is there for it to be amazing.


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## Stickemdeep (Jul 27, 2021)

ABBYS DAD said:


> What's the headache about it?


Waterfowl hunting it with all the recent changes to whats considered private water it is very challenging to hunt the river


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## ABBYS DAD (Jul 27, 2021)

Dustin Pate said:


> It is still an above average WMA. I agree with Bowdawg that the potential is there for it to be amazing.


Well with it being close to metro Atlanta and in a good county, I may have to try it. Haven't been on a quota hunt in almost a dozen years.


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## toolmkr20 (Jul 30, 2021)

Plenty of deer there. I enjoy going when I get drawn. I wished they’d go back to the old rules though. Lots of 2.5y/o 8pts get killed now on that WMA.


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## ABBYS DAD (Jul 31, 2021)

toolmkr20 said:


> Plenty of deer there. I enjoy going when I get drawn. I wished they’d go back to the old rules though. Lots of 2.5y/o 8pts get killed now on that WMA.


Did they have the spread and main beam rule at one time?


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## toolmkr20 (Jul 31, 2021)

ABBYS DAD said:


> Did they have the spread and main beam rule at one time?



Yes


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## Bowdawg (Aug 19, 2021)

Just picked up some regs and the weeks have changed for this years hunts. The second bow hunt is Oct 31 - November 7. Usually the second bow hunt follows the second gun hunt and runs November 7-15. The second gun hunt is earlier this year . This is a  big deal. Most of the bucks that are harvested come from the second gun hunt . In theory a large percentage of 2 year olds that usually get smoked will make it to next year.


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## BamaGeorgialine (Aug 20, 2021)

I liked it a lot a couple of years ago before they cut so many roads through the property. Their aren't many places that are hard to get to anymore


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## Gl4di4torRr (Aug 23, 2021)

Has anyone seen poisonous snakes on joe kurz?


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## Bowdawg (Aug 24, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> Has anyone seen poisonous snakes on joe kurz?





Gl4di4torRr said:


> Has anyone seen poisonous snakes on joe kurz?


I have seen pics of some huge Rattlers killed near Joe Kurz so go ahead and assume they are there.


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## kevin17 (Aug 24, 2021)

It’s very crowded. Wish they would drop the quota down to at least 75 per hunt.


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## gawildlife (Aug 24, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> Has anyone seen poisonous snakes on joe kurz?



Nope, they are all perfectly safe to eat.


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## Big7 (Aug 24, 2021)

kevin17 said:


> It’s very crowded. Wish they would drop the quota down to at least 75 per hunt.


75 city folk with high powered rifles?

I'll pass.


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## 1982ace (Aug 24, 2021)

I do too wish they would trim the quota down but I will say the place hunts big the way it’s laid out. Have to figure out a way to save the 2 yr old 8 points from getting blasted would be great


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## Goatman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

I used to hunt it pretty regular during bow season. Never many people there during the week. The quota hunts for me ended up like quota hunts anywhere else, but I've always seen deer.


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## ABBYS DAD (Sep 2, 2021)

Got drawn for the first hunt.


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## cam88 (Sep 13, 2021)

Got drawn for second hunt!!


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## Gl4di4torRr (Sep 14, 2021)

cam88 said:


> Got drawn for second hunt!!


See you there!


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## NickDeer (Sep 14, 2021)

I went on the October hunt last year. It was alright. I freezed in the tent saturday night though lol. I used to hunt a club that was the bordering property across the river. There is a lot of potential due to the clubs and farms around the area. The only thing I don't like is how much open area's there are. Wish there was more timber.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 15, 2021)

toolmkr20 said:


> Plenty of deer there. I enjoy going when I get drawn. I wished they’d go back to the old rules though. Lots of 2.5y/o 8pts get killed now on that WMA.



Looking at a data set from 2003 to present, I averaged the age of all the antlered bucks killed on Joe Kurz before the change in antler restrictions and after the change. Here are the average ages:

2003-2011=3.35 years old
2012-2020=3.24 years old

Number of bucks killed:
2003-2011= 104 bucks 3.5 or older
2012-2020= 103 bucks 3.5 or older


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## toolmkr20 (Sep 15, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> Looking at a data set from 2003 to present, I averaged the age of all the antlered bucks killed on Joe Kurz before the change in antler restrictions and after the change. Here are the average ages:
> 
> 2003-2011=3.35 years old
> 2012-2020=3.24 years old
> ...



Guess I need to brush up on my age judging based on eye sight. There’s been several bucks I’ve seen that supposedly came from Kurz that looked awfully small to be 3.5+.


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## C.Killmaster (Sep 15, 2021)

toolmkr20 said:


> Guess I need to brush up on my age judging based on eye sight. There’s been several bucks I’ve seen that supposedly came from Kurz that looked awfully small to be 3.5+.



Those are averages, so there were a number of 2.5 year olds in the harvest and you probably did see them.  There were a number of 2.5s killed before and after the regulation change, but the bottom line is that the impact from the regulation change on overall age structure was minimal.


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## ABBYS DAD (Sep 17, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> Looking at a data set from 2003 to present, I averaged the age of all the antlered bucks killed on Joe Kurz before the change in antler restrictions and after the change. Here are the average ages:
> 
> 2003-2011=3.35 years old
> 2012-2020=3.24 years old
> ...


Thanks for the data Charlie. Hope to add to that data this coming October.


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## Bowdawg (Sep 30, 2021)

toolmkr20 said:


> Guess I need to brush up on my age judging based on eye sight. There’s been several bucks I’ve seen that supposedly came from Kurz that looked awfully small to be 3.5+.


Year before last I went to the check station and watched a guy( who said he wasnt a biologist ) age 4 bucks that came in. 3 out of the 4 were barely 100 inches if that and he aged all of them in the 3 to 4 year range. I know im arm chair quarter backing here but theres no way any of the bucks I saw were over 2 1/2 . In that county with those genetics and the surrounding properties mainly being trophy clubs a 4 year old is a hoss that rarely is seen during daylight hours.


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## dang (Oct 1, 2021)

I’ll be on the first hunt in two weeks. Haven’t made it down there yet this year. Hopefully in the next week or so I’ll wander down that way


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## sweatequity (Oct 11, 2021)

ABBYS DAD said:


> Got drawn for the first hunt.


I got drawn for the first hunt. Havent had time to make it down to scout either. I hope to wing it and avoid as many hunters as possible.  Something different.


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## dang (Oct 11, 2021)

sweatequity said:


> I got drawn for the first hunt. Havent had time to make it down to scout either. I hope to wing it and avoid as many hunters as possible.  Something different.


I’ll be there


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## kevin17 (Oct 11, 2021)

Good luck and leave some bucks for the second hunt. Let us know how the first hunt goes.


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## Gl4di4torRr (Oct 13, 2021)

Best of luck to everyone the next 3 days for the first hunt!


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## kevin17 (Oct 16, 2021)

How was the hunt?


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## Gl4di4torRr (Oct 16, 2021)

kevin17 said:


> How was the hunt?


I just stopped by the check station to see. Lots of does seen but not a lot of bucks.


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## gawildlife (Oct 16, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> I just stopped by the check station to see. Lots of does seen but not a lot of bucks.



Still a little to warm for major movement yet. Maybe this evening temps will get them to moving.


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## dang (Oct 16, 2021)

Yesterday around noon I talked to the biologist and there was only one buck killed to that point. Only deer checked in. Not sure what happened since


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## kevin17 (Oct 17, 2021)

They keep moving the hunts earlier father away from the rut. The second gun hunt is now when the first gun hunt used to be.


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## Long Cut (Oct 31, 2021)

The WMA has potential to be very good, the serious problem is that the deer are getting “high graded” meaning the best genetically 1.5-3.5 YO are either getting killed or run off the property from all the small game/ big game hunting pressure. 

When all the basket 8’s and 10’s get shot at 2.5 YO, you allow the 4pt and 6pt’s that are the same age to grow where their genetic antler peak might only be 120” as opposed to +140”... 

It’s a shame, a lot of folks get greedy and feel they used priority points so they’re going to kill something. I’ve scouted Kurz heavily and found many dead basket 6’s I feel hunters left to rot because they wouldn’t make the antler reg cut...


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## BamaGeorgialine (Oct 31, 2021)

Long Cut said:


> The WMA has potential to be very good, the serious problem is that the deer are getting “high graded” meaning the best genetically 1.5-3.5 YO are either getting killed or run off the property from all the small game/ big game hunting pressure.
> 
> When all the basket 8’s and 10’s get shot at 2.5 YO, you allow the 4pt and 6pt’s that are the same age to grow where their genetic antler peak might only be 120” as opposed to +140”...
> 
> It’s a shame, a lot of folks get greedy and feel they used priority points so they’re going to kill something. I’ve scouted Kurz heavily and found many dead basket 6’s I feel hunters left to rot because they wouldn’t make the antler reg cut...


While I agree with you to some degree, it is a WMA and they are legal. I'm not interested in a basket rack 8 pointer myself but, I completely understand that most folks who sign up to hunt them are going to shoot the first legal buck they see.


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## Long Cut (Oct 31, 2021)

BamaGeorgialine said:


> While I agree with you to some degree, it is a WMA and they are legal. I'm not interested in a basket rack 8 pointer myself but, I completely understand that most folks who sign up to hunt them are going to shoot the first legal buck they see.



It’s not illegal by any means, moreso frustrating that you’re going to use 2-4 priority points and no longer have the opportunity to kill a 140” buck anymore. I remember seeing pictures of amazing deer come off the Kurz rifle hunts. Now, you’re looking at average 100-110” deer... Sad to see a wonderful wma decline the way it has. 

Oh well, that’s why I prefer hunting private land nowadays because at least I know myself along with a majority of my neighbors will let bucks age.


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## BamaGeorgialine (Oct 31, 2021)

Long Cut said:


> It’s not illegal by any means, moreso frustrating that you’re going to use 2-4 priority points and no longer have the opportunity to kill a 140” buck anymore. I remember seeing pictures of amazing deer come off the Kurz rifle hunts. Now, you’re looking at average 100-110” deer... Sad to see a wonderful wma decline the way it has.
> 
> Oh well, that’s why I prefer hunting private land nowadays because at least I know myself along with a majority of my neighbors will let bucks age.


Yeah man. When it first opened it was awesome. I love hunting there during the archery week because I feel like since there is so much private property around that you just never know what might follow a doe over there. Even the archery week is getting crowded now since they legalized crossbows some years ago


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## dang (Oct 31, 2021)

Long Cut said:


> It’s not illegal by any means, moreso frustrating that you’re going to use 2-4 priority points and no longer have the opportunity to kill a 140” buck anymore. I remember seeing pictures of amazing deer come off the Kurz rifle hunts. Now, you’re looking at average 100-110” deer... Sad to see a wonderful wma decline the way it has.
> 
> Oh well, that’s why I prefer hunting private land nowadays because at least I know myself along with a majority of my neighbors will let bucks age.


The deer records seem to tell a different story. There is only one deer over 140 all time? Not pointing that out to spark argument, it’s obviously a popular WMA for a reason…but it does beg the question, what does one need to do to get a deer listed in the records? Do big bucks killed on these check in’s get scored and listed automatically or is it up to the hunter to go get an official score and submit through some process to list it? I spent 3 points on the first hunt this year and was less than impressed with the place. Very few bucks killed…probably had higher expectations than I should have in hindsight


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## B. White (Oct 31, 2021)

I would not be expecting to kill 140" deer on a Georgia WMA.  Not saying at all it won't/doesn't happen, but you will spend a lot of your life in disappointment, if this is your expectation.


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## dang (Oct 31, 2021)

B. White said:


> I would not be expecting to kill 140" deer on a Georgia WMA.  Not saying at all it won't/doesn't happen, but you will spend a lot of your life in disappointment, if this is your expectation.


Definitely not my expectation. Just saying the deer records for joe kurz seem to be pretty similar to just about any of the other 6 wma’s I frequent.


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## Long Cut (Oct 31, 2021)

dang said:


> The deer records seem to tell a different story. There is only one deer over 140 all time? Not pointing that out to spark argument, it’s obviously a popular WMA for a reason…but it does beg the question, what does one need to do to get a deer listed in the records? Do big bucks killed on these check in’s get scored and listed automatically or is it up to the hunter to go get an official score and submit through some process to list it? I spent 3 points on the first hunt this year and was less than impressed with the place. Very few bucks killed…probably had higher expectations than I should have in hindsight
> View attachment 1113384



There’s a buck mounted inside the little hut next to the sign in kiosk. Take a look at him if the Wardens/biologists are there. 

I won’t say anymore on a public forum.


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## Long Cut (Oct 31, 2021)

B. White said:


> I would not be expecting to kill 140" deer on a Georgia WMA.  Not saying at all it won't/doesn't happen, but you will spend a lot of your life in disappointment, if this is your expectation.



They absolutely exist. The time and effort required to find and hunt them down is more than the average guy is willing to put fourth.


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## C.Killmaster (Oct 31, 2021)

Long Cut said:


> The WMA has potential to be very good, the serious problem is that the deer are getting “high graded” meaning the best genetically 1.5-3.5 YO are either getting killed or run off the property from all the small game/ big game hunting pressure.
> 
> When all the basket 8’s and 10’s get shot at 2.5 YO, you allow the 4pt and 6pt’s that are the same age to grow where their genetic antler peak might only be 120” as opposed to +140”...
> 
> It’s a shame, a lot of folks get greedy and feel they used priority points so they’re going to kill something. I’ve scouted Kurz heavily and found many dead basket 6’s I feel hunters left to rot because they wouldn’t make the antler reg cut...



We actually looked at that specific thing to see if genetic high-grading was occurring, but it's not.  The specific WMA's are not mentioned in the abstract but it included all the WMAs with antler restrictions compared to those without in this study. 

Let me emphasize here that antler restrictions and what deer a hunter chooses to shoot will not influence the genetics of a local population.  This has been thoroughly debunked in several experiments, and many I have first hand knowledge and experience with.

https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wsb.973

This was one of the most comprehensive studies on the subject:

https://www.proquest.com/openview/f...baba6/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y


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## Long Cut (Oct 31, 2021)

C.Killmaster said:


> We actually looked at that specific thing to see if genetic high-grading was occurring, but it's not.  The specific WMA's are not mentioned in the abstract but it included all the WMAs with antler restrictions compared to those without in this study.
> 
> Let me emphasize here that antler restrictions and what deer a hunter chooses to shoot will not influence the genetics of a local population.  This has been thoroughly debunked in several experiments, and many I have first hand knowledge and experience with.
> 
> ...



I’m not saying that pulling a trigger will alter a wild deers genetic makeup or potential. I’m simply stating these hunters are “picking fruit before they’re ripe, because they’re larger in size”. 

The reputation of Kurz is out. You’ll see 200-500 hunters sign in to hunt the 7 day archery hunt. Folks coming from Florida, South GA... you name it. The caliber of deer this property once produced is a thing of the past, in my experience. It’s bitter sweet as I grew up hunting there, but there’s nothing I can do about it.


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## buckshed (Nov 1, 2021)

Anybody know how the 2nd gun hunt turned out?


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## Gl4di4torRr (Nov 1, 2021)

buckshed said:


> Anybody know how the 2nd gun hunt turned out?


If I remember correctly, I think there were 6 bucks taken Thursday and Friday. Three 8 pointers and three 9 pointers. I harvested a doe saturday morning.


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## kevin17 (Nov 1, 2021)

I would like to see them go back to the old antler Restrictions.


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## kevin17 (Nov 1, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> If I remember correctly, I think there were 6 bucks taken Thursday and Friday. Three 8 pointers and three 9 pointers. I harvested a doe saturday morning.


Last year the second hunt they killed 24 bucks and The hunt was one week later. This year we did not see any bucks chasing at all. In years past when the hunt was in November they were rutting. The hunting wasn’t as good this year but it may let some of the older buck survive.


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## Gl4di4torRr (Nov 1, 2021)

kevin17 said:


> Last year the second hunt they killed 24 bucks and The hunt was one week later. This year we did not see any bucks chasing at all. In years past when the hunt was in November they were rutting. The hunting wasn’t as good this year but it may let some of the older buck survive.


What were the old antler restrictions? Started hunting public two years ago.


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## kevin17 (Nov 1, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> What were the old antler restrictions? Started hunting public two years ago.


Pretty sure it was 15” wide or 16” main beam. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.


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## Dustin Pate (Nov 1, 2021)

dang said:


> Definitely not my expectation. Just saying the deer records for joe kurz seem to be pretty similar to just about any of the other 6 wma’s I frequent.



The genetics of the county as a whole say the potential is there for Kurz to be something very special. I've said this before, but there is a reason it used to take 4-5 years to get picked to hunt there. People knew what was possible. I have never pulled the trigger there and have let some very nice deer walk. I don't feel any regret not pulling the trigger there. I have other WMA's that are non-quota where I can routinely go and kill 2-3 year old deer. 

Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can implemented that is really going to change the outcome. Plenty of deer were getting ground checked under the rules.


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## Long Cut (Nov 2, 2021)

kevin17 said:


> Pretty sure it was 15” wide or 16” main beam. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.



It was 4 points on one side AND 15” minimum inside antler spread.

Now it’s 4 points OR 15” inside spread. A lot of the bucks you see getting shot now are 7-9pt basket racks with a 12-13” spread.


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## buckshed (Nov 2, 2021)

Nope it was 15 inch inside spread or 16 inch main beams..I've hunted there since it opened...saw a huge 6 pt back in the day checked in aged 6 and 1/2 years


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## buckshed (Nov 2, 2021)

Well I could be wrong because that buck might have been shot after changes cause he was really wide


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## Gl4di4torRr (Nov 2, 2021)

Long Cut said:


> It was 4 points on one side AND 15” minimum inside antler spread.
> 
> Now it’s 4 points OR 15” inside spread. A lot of the bucks you see getting shot now are 7-9pt basket racks with a 12-13” spread.



I am fairly new to public land... I was pretty nervous about making sure I shot a legal buck. I just wonder how many illegal bucks were shot with these rules and the buck was left to rot. Personally, if I shoot an illegal buck, I will go tell the DNR and face the consequences, but I know not everyone will do that.


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## kevin17 (Nov 2, 2021)

We were there for the second hunt and stayed till Saturday around noon. There sure sounded like there was a lot more shooting than for just the 6 deer that was checked out when we left. My buddy found a 5 point skull that looked like from last year. I guessing ground checking a lot of bucks.


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## 6mm Remington (Nov 7, 2021)

Hunted the second hunt on Joe kurz. Seen a lot of small bucks but no shooters. Place is loaded with deer but I do think they hurt it when they changed the regulations.


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## Dustin Pate (Nov 10, 2021)

Gl4di4torRr said:


> I am fairly new to public land... I was pretty nervous about making sure I shot a legal buck. I just wonder how many illegal bucks were shot with these rules and the buck was left to rot. Personally, if I shoot an illegal buck, I will go tell the DNR and face the consequences, but I know not everyone will do that.



A bunch! I was on a hunt one time and one evening there had to have been 20+ shots that you could tell were on the WMA. I think there were less than a dozen deer checked in. I'm sure a few could have been misses, but I would bet many were left to rot.


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## dang (Nov 10, 2021)

Dustin Pate said:


> A bunch! I was on a hunt one time and one evening there had to have been 20+ shots that you could tell were on the WMA. I think there were less than a dozen deer checked in. I'm sure a few could have been misses, but I would bet many were left to rot.


 sad reality


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## bfriendly (Nov 16, 2021)

Yeah that’s no bueno. I’d prefer a no restriction hunt so I don’t mess up, but I’d never let one rot.


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## Wolfman9 (Dec 6, 2021)

have any quail been seen on Joe Kurz recently?


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## kevin17 (Dec 6, 2021)

Didn’t see any while I was there


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## 1982ace (Dec 29, 2021)

Are they done cutting timber there? They had cut a bunch year before last and was wondering if they planted behind it let it grow up


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## Gl4di4torRr (Jan 6, 2022)

1982ace said:


> Are they done cutting timber there? They had cut a bunch year before last and was wondering if they planted behind it let it grow up


I haven't seen anything planted.


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