# What do I do with this??



## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

This is my intention of this thread!
Many believers tell us "de-converted" uns, that we never really had a relationship with anything.. that we never really knew the god we thought we did. 

I've got this ONE tattoo. A few months before I turned 18 I wanted a tattoo. I spent 6 months trying to figure out what to get. I still feel that I definitely understood what having a tattoo meant. I didn't want something I'd regret. I didn't want something "in the moment." I wanted something that would always be me. I thought about a Chevy bow tie... that's about all I can remember specifically. Then I went to what I knew I'd never lose. This was not split second decision. This was NOT just because everyone else had one. This was NOT just to get a tattoo I thought would look cool. It was 100% what would ALWAYS be ME. 

You see what it is.. You see the cross, but it's not just a cross. I wanted my own cross, my own cross. I wanted to take up my own cross, so I made this one my own. I specifically liked how it was weathered and worn. I probably drew and re-drew it 50 times. I finally had what I really liked. The artist told me it wasn't perfectly symmetrical, so he re-drew it and it looks pretty much the same as mine.

There's also a crown of thorns that to me represented the pain that Jesus endured for me more so than just hanging on the cross. The cross was the execution but the crown of thorns was just icing on the cake in the form of pain and humiliation.

Now, 9 years later I still think it's a good looking design and a well done tattoo. However,  it doesn't represent me at all anymore. I obviously never thought I'd be where I am today. I now realized what I was doing was not what I thought I was doing. I also now realize why I was doing what I did.

It doesn't bother me really. It's obviously not visible on a daily basis. I don't hate it. I actually rarely even think about it. Recently, one time I did think about it.. And after a couple minutes of thinking it came to mind the old peein' on bumper stickers. That would be rude and insensitive though, and that's not me either. I stated my intention of this thread, and it's not really for ideas of what to do with my tattoo, although respectful ideas are welcome.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

Here are a couple of pictures from just after I first showed my mom. We were going to the beach and I knew she'd see it.. She was as ok as she could have been with her son getting a tattoo because of what it was.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

Not really sure what your intention is, but I will respectfully say that a good tatoo artist could recommend a bigger tatoo to cover it up.

I have seen a large swastika covered up by a portrait of Jimi Hendrix.

I have seen some removal pictures, and I wouldn't want to do that!


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

I thought I clearly expressed my intention. I was trying to show in some way my complete devotion to god. I am sure most of the people that have said it before still believe that I never really had a relationship with anything. I feel I was in no different boat than many of you. I would have held my faith just as the guys here do.

What I should physically do with my tattoo was just a bi-product.


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## TTom (Aug 16, 2011)

What you do with it is simple. You respect it as a marking of your life's journey. Representing the man you were at 18.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I thought I clearly expressed my intention. I was trying to show in some way my complete devotion to god. I am sure most of the people that have said it before still believe that I never really had a relationship with anything. I feel I was in no different boat than many of you. I would have held my faith just as the guys here do.
> 
> What I should physically do with my tattoo was just a bi-product.



It is clear now.

I would not/could not pass judgement on your relationship with God past or present. I have read those posts of believers saying those things you describe, and that ain't me.

I meant no disrespect.

I thought I had a respectful suggestion of what you could do with the bi-product without opening the other can of worms. You have my apology.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

No worries ted, I felt no disrespect, just thought I had made myself clear. Your position on what/who/where I was as a believer is different from what I have heard. Aside from the typing I have seen here, I was taught the same way while I was believer.

I don't really want to pay to do anything with my tattoo. It's covered for the most part of my life.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

TTom said:


> What you do with it is simple. You respect it as a marking of your life's journey. Representing the man you were at 18.



I can live with that because it is absolutely true.

My question is, does it make you feel that my devotion to what I feel was nothing but an idea, what's real at all?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> No worries ted, I felt no disrespect, just thought I had made myself clear. Your position on what/who/where I was as a believer is different from what I have heard. Aside from the typing I have seen here, I was taught the same way while I was believer.
> 
> I don't really want to pay to do anything with my tattoo. It's covered for the most part of my life.



I also have a tatoo that represents the past that is no longer a part of my life. Do I regret the tatoo? No, I regret the choices it represents though. (The worst 7 years of my life). I keep it to remind me of how important some choices are.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 16, 2011)

I have no worst years of my life... There were ups and downs, but being a believer wasn't a horrible time of my life.. I still fell that it can remind me of my past. I definitely feel that you wouldn't like me to feel that this tattoo represents how important the worst times of my life are to me, or at the very least, since I don't feel they were horrible, how I regret my choices to follow what I was told all my life.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 16, 2011)

You've got nothing to lose,,,, From time to time I'd think about that cross and what you believed the day you chose it.  One day you might believe the same way you did back then.
That wouldn't be so bad would it?


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## ted_BSR (Aug 16, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I have no worst years of my life... There were ups and downs, but being a believer wasn't a horrible time of my life.. I still fell that it can remind me of my past. I definitely feel that you wouldn't like me to feel that this tattoo represents how important the worst times of my life are to me, or at the very least, since I don't feel they were horrible, how I regret my choices to follow what I was told all my life.



You are right, I wouldn't want it to remind you of bad times.

My tatoo reminds me of my ex-wife though!!!!


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry to say it, but lol, ted. From others I can see how that might happen. Not saying it will or won't happen to me.. just not from this tattoo or portion of my life.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 17, 2011)

Ronnie T said:


> You've got nothing to lose,,,, From time to time I'd think about that cross and what you believed the day you chose it.  One day you might believe the same way you did back then.
> That wouldn't be so bad would it?



Completely agreed. From this tattoo, I have nothing to lose. I doubt it but just as how I doubted that it was the wrong decision before. I think the main reason I have nothing to lose is just because it's a tattoo. You may have seen Forgetting Sarah Marshal. Plenty of people get tattoos of things that have never meant anything, just cuz.

This tattoo had a very certain cause and meaning. Not a cause that I wanted a tattoo, but that I wanted a tattoo that was 100% me. 

I guess I didn't expect anything else, but how can the majority of the believers that try to witness to us non believers, here at least, logically try to tell me that I wasn't in what I was always told (and 100% BELIEVED) was a real relationship with a god? The same god a lot in this country hold to be real, holy and the center of their lives and complete reason for being?


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## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 17, 2011)

Eh, the tattoo represents what the 18yr old you held true and dear and truly believed.  Today, seen through different eyes, it serves to remind you of a different time in your life, when you thought and believed differently. Neither is wrong, or right, just your outlook on life has changed.  Look at the tattoo as a reminder of what once once was, not a negative thing to be hidden.

As far as arguing with those who believe, you can't. You can discuss and discuss all day long, but in the end it all comes down to faith vs rational arguments.  The believers come up with explanations all day long that make no sense if looked at outside a "faith" context.  If I show someone that a fossil has been in the ground for 100 million years, and he says "God makes it look like that", I can't argue with that, it's not a rational argument.

You can't argue with someone whose beliefs involve their entire being and way of life, they just will never see reason.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

> I guess I didn't expect anything else, but how can the majority of the believers that try to witness to us non believers, here at least, logically try to tell me that I wasn't in what I was always told (and 100% BELIEVED) was a real relationship with a god? The same god a lot in this country hold to be real, holy and the center of their lives and complete reason for being?



I would say that you WERE in what you were TOLD and BELIEVED was a real relationship with God.

Let me ask you this (and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here)...

Think back.  When you were in middle school and had a "girl friend"...did you 100% believe that you were in a real relationship?  You did, right?  You were convinced in 7th grade that you had found "the one" and you'd be together forever.

No, I'm not comparing that to what you felt with Christ 9 years ago.  But what I'm saying is that you were in what you were told and believed was a real relationship with Christ.  At that point in your life and in the maturity you had then, you were in what you understood to be a deep relationship.  Perspective changes as we mature.

When you are truly committed to a relationship and are deeply invested in it and truly believe that you are in a real relationship, you simply do not walk away from it.  

Did you believe in Christ back then?  That is not for me to say.  But very clearly that relationship was not deep enough to cause you so stay.  That much is evident, no?


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## dawg2 (Aug 17, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> This is my intention of this thread!
> Many believers tell us "de-converted" uns, that we never really had a relationship with anything.. that we never really knew the god we thought we did.
> 
> I've got this ONE tattoo. ...I wanted something that would always be me. I thought about a Chevy bow tie... that's about all I can remember specifically. Then I went to what I knew I'd never lose. ....
> ...



Sounds like you fell in love with the "book" and not the message.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 17, 2011)

Yeah, I get the maturity level thing...

I think my relationship was as deep as it could have been. I don't think it was the relationship that couldn't keep me there. It was who the relationship was with. It ended up being no one. I matured and that is what I realized... that there was no one on the other end other than my imagination.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

If you want my opinion....nobody discipled you and that is why you got to where you could on your own (i.e. "as deep as it could have been).

But I get that you don't think that.  Just telling you what I think.


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## jmharris23 (Aug 17, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> My question is, does it make you feel that my devotion to what I feel was nothing but an idea, what's real at all?



It doesn't really make me feel anything. The bible says that there will be plenty who "felt" something that was nothing and ultimately would walk away from Christ. 

Why this happens is probably for several different reasons.


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## TheBishop (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> If you want my opinion....nobody discipled you and that is why you got to where you could on your own (i.e. "as deep as it could have been).
> 
> But I get that you don't think that.  Just telling you what I think.





Nothing like a good ol'e disciplinin to keep the fear O god in ya! 

I think what you meant was his indoctrination wasn't strong enough to nullify his logic.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 17, 2011)

I had my family and my church to keep me in a straight line. I was active in my youth group and a small group after I graduated high school as well. I surrounded myself with like minded people for a long time.


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## stringmusic (Aug 17, 2011)

TheBishop said:


> Nothing like a good ol'e disciplinin to keep the fear O god in ya!
> 
> I think what you meant was his indoctrination wasn't strong enough to nullify his logic.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

Try to read slowly Bishop....


Disciple....Discipline...As the AJC asks...can you spot the difference?


In highly cynical athiest parlance...yes, this is correct:



> I think what you meant was his indoctrination wasn't strong enough to nullify his logic.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I had my family and my church to keep me in a straight line. I was active in my youth group and a small group after I graduated high school as well. I surrounded myself with like minded people for a long time.



So, then, what happened?  

Strong believer, surrounded by strong believers does not just up and realize "hey...this is all fake".  Something happened.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 17, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> but how can the majority of the believers that try to witness to us non believers, here at least, logically try to tell me that I wasn't in what I was always told (and 100% BELIEVED) was a real relationship with a god? The same god a lot in this country hold to be real, holy and the center of their lives and complete reason for being?



They can't. You can tell someone how fine a christian you are, try and show them how deep your devotion is by the application of tattoo's, fish on your car, crosses hanging from your mirror etc etc etc. None of which proves you are who  you are saying you are. This is only evidenced by how you live your life, and how you interact with the world around you.

Just because you are at a point in your life where you don't feel the same as you did when you were 18 has no bearing of where you will be or what you may feel or believe next  year, or 10 even 20 years from now.

One thing is a certain, you believed, you had faith and now perhaps are not of that mindset, but the foundation is laid, and if one day you tear down the mental house you are living in, for the purpose of seeking out a new one, you will always have that foundation of faith  to rebuild from, should you choose to do so.

Good looking tattoo by the way. You did a good job on the artwork.


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## rjcruiser (Aug 17, 2011)

Just as an outsider...an internet armchair monday morning QB....it shows the rebellion that you already had in your heart at the time.

Why'd you get it?  Why'd you get it on the middle of your back right before going to the beach?  Seems you were already on a path of trying to get away with as much as you could.

I've been there before.  Two paths come out from that position.  I'd say you chose the more traveled path.


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## JB0704 (Aug 17, 2011)

Is a tatoo really rebellion?  I got my kid's names tatoo on my arms way after I was passed rebelling against things.  I knew folks get cross tatoos after watching the passion, which illustrates conformity more than rebellion.


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## TheBishop (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Try to read slowly Bishop....
> 
> 
> Disciple....Discipline...As the AJC asks...can you spot the difference?



Either way its still laughable.


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## TheBishop (Aug 17, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> I'd say you chose the more traveled path.



If he doesn't have free will how can he choose?


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## pnome (Aug 17, 2011)

Keep it.

You've put religion behind you.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> I would say that you WERE in what you were TOLD and BELIEVED was a real relationship with God.
> 
> Let me ask you this (and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here)...
> 
> ...



you mean he was not completely brain washed yet?


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## rjcruiser (Aug 17, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> Is a tatoo really rebellion?  I got my kid's names tatoo on my arms way after I was passed rebelling against things.  I knew folks get cross tatoos after watching the passion, which illustrates conformity more than rebellion.



Not always....no.  But from the OP, it appears as though his mom did not approve and he did it knowing she probably wouldn't really like it....but would accept it based on it being a cross.

Again, that is my through the internet, monday morning QB opinion.  No offense is meant to the OP.



TheBishop said:


> Either way its still laughable.



What is laughable is that you read HF's post through your tinted glasses....reading what you wanted to believe, not what was actually written.



TheBishop said:


> If he doesn't have free will how can he choose?





You continue to reference an issue you don't understand and have no desire to study or learn about.  At what point does ignorance become stupidity?


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 17, 2011)

pnome said:


> Keep it.
> 
> You've put religion behind you.



Constantly adhering to a policy of railing against a single issue is still a religion..


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> So, then, what happened?
> 
> Strong believer, surrounded by strong believers does not just up and realize "hey...this is all fake".  Something happened.



he probably started thinkin for himself


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## stringmusic (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> you mean he was not completely brain washed yet?





hummdaddy said:


> he probably started thinkin for himself



Could you stop?...... please?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Could you stop?...... please?



why?logical answers


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## pnome (Aug 17, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> Constantly adhering to a policy of railing against a single issue is still a religion..



Yay!  So I'm NOT on your ignore list after all!  

So, your definition of religion is railing against a single issue?


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## JFS (Aug 17, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> respectful ideas are welcome.



How quick are you these days?  I think that would make a sweet paintball target.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> you mean he was not completely brain washed yet?



As I said....in very cynical athiest parlance....that's how I would assume you would understand it.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> why?logical answers



Logically...if you are 100% committed to something and you surround yourself with others who are also 100% committed to the same thing...you don't just all of a sudden turn 180 deg.  Something causes that turn.  Just "he started thinking for himself" is not a logical explanation.  Either he wasn't 100% committed or something else caused him to question to the point of a complete turn away from it.

Now, think logically, post logical answers and we'll be glad to address you logically.  What you posted isn't logical....but it is consistent with your normal posting pattern.


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## ambush80 (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Logically...if you are 100% committed to something and you surround yourself with others who are also 100% committed to the same thing...you don't just all of a sudden turn 180 deg.  Something causes that turn.  Just "he started thinking for himself" is not a logical explanation.  Either he wasn't 100% committed or something else caused him to question to the point of a complete turn away from it.
> 
> Now, think logically, post logical answers and we'll be glad to address you logically.  What you posted isn't logical....but it is consistent with your normal posting pattern.



Are you talking about an "Ah Ha!" moment where the appropriate response would be "By Jove! I think he's got it!"?


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## ambush80 (Aug 17, 2011)

TTom said:


> What you do with it is simple. You respect it as a marking of your life's journey. Representing the man you were at 18.



I agree.  Think of it like a metal plate in your head you got from doing something crazy on a motorcycle.


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

> Are you talking about an "Ah Ha!" moment where the appropriate response would be "By Jove! I think he's got it!"?




I asked him a specific question.  I would expect him to answer and others not to sarcastically speculate.

But...what I'm talking about is that if you are 100% committed to something, then you are (to use christian-eze) "sold out" to that something.  You don't just all of a sudden realize that it's wrong.  Something or someone convinced you otherwise.

Was is a slow degredation of that 100%?  Was it an event?  What I asked was "what happened"?


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## bullethead (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Logically...if you are 100% committed to something and you surround yourself with others who are also 100% committed to the same thing...you don't just all of a sudden turn 180 deg.  Something causes that turn.  Just "he started thinking for himself" is not a logical explanation.  Either he wasn't 100% committed or something else caused him to question to the point of a complete turn away from it.
> 
> Now, think logically, post logical answers and we'll be glad to address you logically.  What you posted isn't logical....but it is consistent with your normal posting pattern.



Actually "thinking for myself" is EXACTLY the reason I started to get away from religion. When surrounded by people that are 100% committed all of the time, it is time to start thinking outside of the box.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Logically...if you are 100% committed to something and you surround yourself with others who are also 100% committed to the same thing...you don't just all of a sudden turn 180 deg.  Something causes that turn.  Just "he started thinking for himself" is not a logical explanation.  Either he wasn't 100% committed or something else caused him to question to the point of a complete turn away from it.
> 
> Now, think logically, post logical answers and we'll be glad to address you logically.  What you posted isn't logical....but it is consistent with your normal posting pattern.



so praying to a mythical god is logical...i think he found how silly this was and started thinkin for himself...


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## Huntinfool (Aug 17, 2011)

Praying to a mythical god is illogical.


Praying to a real one....



Keep up man.  You're falling behind.


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## stringmusic (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> so praying to a mythical god is logical...i think he found how silly this was and started thinkin for himself...



So _everyone_ that thinks for themselves will come to his conclusion?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Praying to a mythical god is illogical.
> 
> 
> Praying to a real one....
> ...



prove it
nothing but books that a bunch of schizophrenics wrote to further their own agenda


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> So _everyone_ that thinks for themselves will come to his conclusion?



when they think for themselves , they will come to their own conclusion....


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## stringmusic (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> when they think for themselves , they will come to their own conclusion....





You stated that the reason he came to the conclusion he did was because he started thinking for himself, so, I will ask again, would everyone who decided to think for themselves come to the same conclusion in his situation?


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

for the op , i have my own tattoo of a Celtic cross /battle ax with a viking face and headgear on my shoulder . i think it is a nice piece of art ,  part of who my ancestors were and where i came from.  it does not say who i am today.most tattoo's tell story's of our past,so i would leave it and do as the other member said . look at it as religion is behind you.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> You stated that the reason he came to the conclusion he did was because he started thinking for himself, so, I will ask again, would everyone who decided to think for themselves come to the same conclusion in his situation?



everyone has a different knowledge base and set of beliefs .


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## bullethead (Aug 17, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> when they think for themselves , they will come to their own conclusion....



EXACTLY!
Off all the believers on here there are not two that vision Heaven exactly as the other does, or God, or anything.... I am positive that while even their beliefs are very close, they can find one thing to disagree on(and THE reason why there are so many off-shoots within the Christian denomination)

What is in a person's heart or mind is unique to THAT person and it is what makes them an individual


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## bullethead (Aug 17, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> You stated that the reason he came to the conclusion he did was because he started thinking for himself, so, I will ask again, would everyone who decided to think for themselves come to the same conclusion in his situation?



String, the answer you were given says it all. The OP came to HIS conclusions based off of HIS own personal thoughts. Don't be ridiculous thinking that everyone would come to the same conclusion.


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## ambush80 (Aug 17, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Actually "thinking for myself" is EXACTLY the reason I started to get away from religion. When surrounded by people that are 100% committed all of the time, it is time to start thinking outside of the box.



I will play Devil's advocate.

I imagine that many Christians would say that here is where you fell off the wagon.  From what I've seen, this kind of thinking is forbidden.  I think many Christians would say that this is the point where Satan started working on you, telling you to listen to reason.  The Bible clearly states that understanding God cannot be done with a "Natural Mind" ( meaning Reason).  

Who you gonna believe?  The Bible or your lying eyes?


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## TheBishop (Aug 17, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> At what point does ignorance become stupidity?



There is nothing more stupid or ignorant, then a display of contradiction in which the offender persists, spewing contradiction on top of contradiction. Then in a desperate act of inferior intellect, dodges the blatant contradictions, insisting on their ingenuity, insulting those who highlight their falsehoods.


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## hummdaddy (Aug 17, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> I will play Devil's advocate.
> 
> I imagine that many Christians would say that here is where you fell off the wagon.  From what I've seen, this kind of thinking is forbidden.  I think many Christians would say that this is the point where Satan started working on you, telling you to listen to reason.  The Bible clearly states that understanding God cannot be done with a "Natural Mind" ( meaning Reason).
> 
> Who you gonna believe?  The Bible or your lying eyes?



i am going to believe what i see or have seen , not what some human wrote thousands of years ago that's been interpreted  many times.not to mention its from what some mythical being said... sounds more like schizophrenia


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## Six million dollar ham (Aug 17, 2011)

See below for the solution.

You're welcome.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

rjcruiser said:


> Just as an outsider...an internet armchair monday morning QB....it shows the rebellion that you already had in your heart at the time.
> 
> Why'd you get it?  Why'd you get it on the middle of your back right before going to the beach?  Seems you were already on a path of trying to get away with as much as you could.
> 
> I've been there before.  Two paths come out from that position.  I'd say you chose the more traveled path.



I didn't get it right before I went to the beach. I just hadn't had a reason to show my mom before that. It was almost a year later. I got it there because that's where I wanted it. Although I knew my parents wouldn't have approved it wasn't really rebellion.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

JFS said:


> How quick are you these days?  I think that would make a sweet paintball target.



I've never played pb and doubt I ever would with my shirt off


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Nice.



six million dollar ham said:


> see below for the solution.
> 
> You're welcome.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Try to read slowly Bishop....
> 
> 
> Disciple....Discipline...As the AJC asks...can you spot the difference?
> ...



Disciple sounds to me more like indoctrination. Discipline sounds like I should be getting in trouble for a tattoo or a sin? Was someone supposed to be putting me in the corner for sinning?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:


> They can't. You can tell someone how fine a christian you are, try and show them how deep your devotion is by the application of tattoo's, fish on your car, crosses hanging from your mirror etc etc etc. None of which proves you are who  you are saying you are. This is only evidenced by how you live your life, and how you interact with the world around you.
> 
> Just because you are at a point in your life where you don't feel the same as you did when you were 18 has no bearing of where you will be or what you may feel or believe next  year, or 10 even 20 years from now.
> 
> ...



I'm not saying I was a fine Christian (whether you meant to say it seemed that way or not). Then this goes for everyone in this thread that claims to be believers.


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## gtparts (Aug 18, 2011)

The only thing I take away from the OP is that some are still confused concerning the terms "religion" and "relationship". When someone comes into relationship with Jesus, religion goes out the window. 

A tat is not a relationship and your original post indicates a strong desire to do as you please. Look back and see how often you used the word "me" and "my" in that post. Might be worth a second look.

Btw, nice art work.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> So, then, what happened?
> 
> Strong believer, surrounded by strong believers does not just up and realize "hey...this is all fake".  Something happened.



I had an ah-ha moment that sealed the deal and made me certain, but there were years before that, even while still in church and around everyone when I was still suspicious.


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## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> String, the answer you were given says it all. The OP came to HIS conclusions based off of HIS own personal thoughts.* Don't be ridiculous thinking that everyone would come to the same conclusion*.



My point exactly!

Tell that to ol' hummdaddy. Not everyone who starts thinking for themselves will come to the conclusion that God is not real, which is the assertion he was making.


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I had an ah-ha moment that sealed the deal and made me certain



Was it one piece of evidence or a combination of many factors?  I had an ah-ha moment in the opposite direction when I was close to where you are.

It is a cool tat, and your concern with being respectful in reference to the "peeing on" addition is appreciated.  I have an atheist friend that has "Jesus Saves" across his chest, it's his way of flipping "us" off.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

gtparts said:


> The only thing I take away from the OP is that some are still confused concerning the terms "religion" and "relationship". When someone comes into relationship with Jesus, religion goes out the window.
> 
> A tat is not a relationship and your original post indicates a strong desire to do as you please. Look back and see how often you used the word "me" and "my" in that post. Might be worth a second look.
> 
> Btw, nice art work.



If it was all about me doing as I pleased I would have capitalized my own pro-nouns. 

Everyone does as they please. I was at church, but that's not what I'm saying I had a relationship with. Anyway. I see I'm getting what I expected. I didn't get a tattoo to prove my love for god. When I thought about a tattoo that was going to last forever that was the only choice really. Even after showing the thought process I had, it still doesn't matter. Whatever I had in my mind obviously wasn't right. It wasn't what any of the believers here have. How could it be? If that were the case, any one of you could still come to the conclusion that I have one day and you'd all hate to think that based on the ideas you live by today. I felt the same way. As it has been stated everyone thinks in their own way, but not everyone thinks different in fundamental ways.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> Was it one piece of evidence or a combination of many factors?  I had an ah-ha moment in the opposite direction when I was close to where you are.
> 
> It is a cool tat, and your concern with being respectful in reference to the "peeing on" addition is appreciated.  I have an atheist friend that has "Jesus Saves" across his chest, it's his way of flipping "us" off.



It was the combination of all of the factors.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

gtparts said:


> The only thing I take away from the OP is that some are still confused concerning the terms "religion" and "relationship". When someone comes into relationship with Jesus, religion goes out the window.


  Yep, that seems to happen alot in here.



> A tat is not a relationship and your original post indicates a strong desire to do as you please. Look back and see how often you used the word "me" and "my" in that post. Might be worth a second look.



I read the same thing, just wasn't sure how to put it into respectable words as you did.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> My point exactly!
> 
> Tell that to ol' hummdaddy. Not everyone who starts thinking for themselves will come to the conclusion that God is not real, which is the assertion he was making.



I see where it could be confused, but I think with the "indoctrination" that kids go through it makes it VERY hard for people to think for themselves.


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> My point exactly!
> 
> Tell that to ol' hummdaddy. Not everyone who starts thinking for themselves will come to the conclusion that God is not real, which is the assertion he was making.



I agree, in fact, if everybody was an atheist the outside the box thinkers would ponder the existence of a God.  I believe nothing like what I was taught, but that did not lead me to believe there is no God.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

hummdaddy said:


> prove it
> nothing but books that a bunch of schizophrenics wrote to further their own agenda



Angry little athiest ain't ya? 


Tell me...what agenda, exactly, was furthered?

I don't need to prove it to you.  We're both in the same position.  Niether of us is able to prove to the other that we are right.  I'm just not angry at you for what you believe.  That's the only difference.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I read the same thing, just wasn't sure how to put it into respectable words as you did.



Another reason why I used the words me and my so much was because there was nothing else involved in my relationship. It was all just me. I was trying to relate back to my relationship with god, but it's hard to describe it the way I would have back then. There was no He, It, Him, Them. It was ALL Me and my Head.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

gtparts said:


> The only thing I take away from the OP is that some are still confused concerning the terms "religion" and "relationship". When someone comes into relationship with Jesus, religion goes out the window.
> 
> A tat is not a relationship and your original post indicates a strong desire to do as you please. Look back and see how often you used the word "me" and "my" in that post. Might be worth a second look.
> 
> Btw, nice art work.



It is all relative and personal. Because you have a relationship with Jesus then you assume others that have had a relationship with Jesus have to feel exactly as you do. Because they do not feel that way now then their relationship was somehow inferior to yours. In your mind it is inconceivable that everyone who has had that experience cannot feel anything but exactly as YOU do. You cannot accept that it did not work out and the only explanation in your mind is that "well, your belief, acceptance, relationship with Jesus was not what it should be...especially like mine!" When you wear the #1 Fan T-shirt, look around, there are many people wearing them and plenty sitting on the store shelves. It's not that exclusive of a club.


----------



## vowell462 (Aug 18, 2011)

Six million dollar ham said:


> See below for the solution.
> 
> You're welcome.



I swear, this dude always puts the funniest stuff on here. As for the OP, I have a cross tattoo on my arm that I got about 10 years ago when I believed. Its still there, havent covered it up, but I do look at is a milestone in my life. 

HF. No significant event happened to me to turn me from religion but logic.I thought for myself, and it doesnt make sense. So Im not sure where your logic is coming from. Since everyone I associate myself with believes one thing, I have to as well? Sounds rather cultish.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I see where it could be confused, but I think with the "indoctrination" that kids go through it* makes it VERY hard for people to think for themselves.*



Which is very sad in many ways. Reminds me of Islamic countries in the middle east, at least our families can't legally murder us for disgracing the family.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> My point exactly!
> 
> Tell that to ol' hummdaddy. Not everyone who starts thinking for themselves will come to the conclusion that God is not real, which is the assertion he was making.



Oddly, because I started thinking on my own, I came to that same conclusion.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> I had an ah-ha moment that sealed the deal and made me certain, but there were years before that, even while still in church and around everyone when I was still suspicious.



Exactly...and this is what I was trying to get to.  You were saying (I think you said this, right?) that you were 100% committed.  Suspicion does not equal 100%.  That's all I was getting at.

It's not a judgement one way or the other.  I figured you had doubts the entire time and eventually just gave into them.  But, I had the impression from your posts that it was like 100% one day, 0% the next.  Sounds like that wasn't the case, right?


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Oddly, because I started thinking on my own, I came to that same conclusion.



That just means y'all are like minded.  It doesn't mean logic will lead everyone to the same place.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> Which is very sad in many ways. Reminds me of Islamic countries in the middle east, at least our families can't legally murder us for disgracing the family.



Reminds me of North Korea.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

JB0704 said:


> That just means y'all are like minded.  It doesn't mean logic will lead everyone to the same place.



Correct. It is a two sided coin though.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Another reason why I used the words me and my so much was because *there was nothing else involved in my relationship.* It was all just me. I was trying to relate back to my relationship with god, but it's hard to describe it the way I would have back then. *There was no He, It, Him, Them. It was ALL Me and my Head.*



I completely understand why you do not believe today, you never had the relationship to begin with. Believing and having the relationship are worlds apart..... even the demons believe.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Exactly...and this is what I was trying to get to.  You were saying (I think you said this, right?) that you were 100% committed.  Suspicion does not equal 100%.  That's all I was getting at.
> 
> It's not a judgement one way or the other.  I figured you had doubts the entire time and eventually just gave into them.  But, I had the impression from your posts that it was like 100% one day, 0% the next.  Sounds like that wasn't the case, right?



No. I was 100% in my teens and early 20's. Let's say 23-26 I was in the middle somewhere. I was at least 75% certain I had the wrong ideas when the last thing happened. Of course, I don't really know because I never thought about it in terms of ratios.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

> I see where it could be confused, but I think with the "indoctrination" that kids go through it makes it VERY hard for people to think for themselves.



I may be the only Christian you ever speak to who will own the "indoctrination" accusation that you keep putting out there.

Absolutely.  I indoctrinate my kids into the faith.  That's what I'm commanded to do.  I teach them when they are young so that they will not depart from it.  I teach them when they rise, when they eat and when the lie down.  That is what I'm supposed to do as a follower of Christ.  Anyone who denies that is just flat out not doing their job.

But don't fool yourself...you do it too.  We all indoctrinate our children into what we are convinced is truth and what we know is best for them.  

There are a few folks in this particular part of the forums (no names necessary...a search will show it) who fully believe that they do not indoctrinate their children in any way, shape, manner or form.  

The are lieing to themselves and to us.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

> No. I was 100% in my teens and early 20's. Let's say 23-26 I was in the middle somewhere. I was at least 75% certain I had the wrong ideas when the last thing happened. Of course, I don't really know because I never thought about it in terms of ratios.



I don't suppose you want to share what "the last thing" was, huh?  Not so I can pick it apart.  I'm just curious what particular thing sends someone over that particular edge.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Oddly, because I started thinking on my own, I came to that same conclusion.



I had the option of thinking for myself as well, my brother is an atheist. My parents didn't force me to believe, yes I went to church, so did my brother. The whole point of my first responce to hummdaddy was that not everyone who thinks "outside the box" or for themselves will become an atheist.


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> Correct. It is a two sided coin though.



I agree.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I completely understand why you do not believe today, you never had the relationship to begin with. Believing and having the relationship are worlds apart..... even the demons believe.



It was way more than believe. In the middle part maybe it was more religion and church I didn't trust or believe in, but I still believed there was a god. My MIL (NEW MIL, but the way. She didn't really know me... long story) asked me one day about 3 years ago if I believed in god. I just instinctively said yes.. It scared me that it was just an automatic response.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I had the option of thinking for myself as well, my brother is an atheist. My parents didn't force me to believe, yes I went to church, so did my brother. The whole point of my first responce to hummdaddy was that not everyone who thinks "outside the box" or for themselves will become an atheist.



You are right, but don't forget that while many will not be an Atheist, many will separate a God and the organized religion. They very well might continue to believe in a God, but not the one as described in the Bible or Christianity.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> You are right, but don't forget that while many will not be an Atheist, many will separate a God and the organized religion. They very well might continue to believe in a God, but not the one as described in the Bible or Christianity.



This is something that I do not understand fully, I am not sure I would call it a struggle, I just don't understand it. Not in the sense of "how can everyone not see it the way I do". I think mankind has gotten itself in a major perdicament...... 1 million different options, and only one is truth.


----------



## JB0704 (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> This is something that I do not understand fully, I am not sure I would call it a struggle, I just don't understand it. Not in the sense of "how can everyone not see it the way I do". I think mankind has gotten itself in a major perdicament...... 1 million different options, and only one is truth.



And how many different interpretations of that one truth are there?  That is my confusion with adhering to any "organized" religion.  I try to seek truth on my own, and act accordingly.  Otherwise, I will get a whole bunch of contradictory opinion.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> This is something that I do not understand fully, I am not sure I would call it a struggle, I just don't understand it. Not in the sense of "how can everyone not see it the way I do". I think mankind has gotten itself in a major perdicament...... 1 million different options, and only one is truth.



One truth in your mind, as even compared with the next believer, yours will differ slightly somehow.

I'd rather think there are many truths that could get you to the same place in the end.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> This is something that I do not understand fully, I am not sure I would call it a struggle, I just don't understand it. Not in the sense of "how can everyone not see it the way I do". I think mankind has gotten itself in a major perdicament...... 1 million different options, and only one is truth.



One truth? What if not a single religion has THE truth. And many religions are different based on details. Fundamentally, they are the same thing.


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

LOTS O deer trails lead to the watering hole.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

...but there is only one watering hole.

...and definitely only one that is filled with living water.

...just had to throw that christian response out there.  You lobbed it...I was required to hit it.  Know what I mean?


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> One truth in your mind, as even compared with the next believer, yours will differ slightly somehow.
> 
> I'd rather think there are many truths that could get you to the same place in the end.



Truth is exclusive, everybody is not right. As far as beliefs differing slightly, I don't find this to be a problem, as long as the fundamentals of those beliefs are coherent.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> ...but there is only one watering hole.
> 
> ...and definitely only one that is filled with living water.
> 
> ...just had to throw that christian response out there.  You lobbed it...I was required to hit it.  Know what I mean?



Solid double in the left field gap.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> ...but there is only one watering hole.
> 
> ...and definitely only one that is filled with living water.
> 
> ...just had to throw that christian response out there.  You lobbed it...I was required to hit it.  Know what I mean?



This is all still just according to what you believe to be true.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

I know man....it just had to be done.  You understand.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> I completely understand why you do not believe today, you never had the relationship to begin with. Believing and having the relationship are worlds apart..... even the demons believe.



So I didn't give details of the kind of relationship that I had. I think it was fairly dumb of me. I had my quiet time where I would just talk to god. At an earlier part of my life I was told you wouldn't hear him or know it was him talking unless you knew him and knew what he sounded like. I didn't believe it at first, but realized what it meant a little later. I obviously don't believe that now.

What I'm getting to though is that it doesn't matter what any non-believer can say or show about what kind of belief they used to have. Any believer will discredit it in at least some way. Why? Because that's the way it has to be. Their beliefs won't work if believing completely and having everything that they have is disposable. There can't be any way that anyone could be in the situation they are in and possibly turn a 180 and not believe.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 18, 2011)

I think what you just posted is pretty much correct.


Biblically speaking, God is too attractive to turn from.  If you are truly in relationship with him and abide in him, you will not turn.  

Call it an argument of convenience.  It lines up with scripture.  But I'm sure somebody just put that in there so I wouldn't turn away and they could keep control over me.


----------



## stringmusic (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> So I didn't give details of the kind of relationship that I had. I think it was fairly dumb of me. I had my quiet time where I would just talk to god. At an earlier part of my life I was told you wouldn't hear him or know it was him talking unless you knew him and knew what he sounded like. I didn't believe it at first, but realized what it meant a little later. I obviously don't believe that now.
> 
> What I'm getting to though is that it doesn't matter what any non-believer can say or show about what kind of belief they used to have. Any believer will discredit it in at least some way. Why? Because that's the way it has to be. Their beliefs won't work if believing completely and having everything that they have is disposable. There can't be any way that anyone could be in the situation they are in and possibly turn a 180 and not believe.


see below, my thoughts exactly.


Huntinfool said:


> Biblically speaking, God is too attractive to turn from.  If you are truly in relationship with him and abide in him, you will not turn.
> 
> Call it an argument of convenience.  It lines up with scripture.





> But I'm sure somebody just put that in there so I wouldn't turn away and they could keep control over me.



Paul's got you right where he wants you.


----------



## dawgforlife (Aug 18, 2011)

Just an option


----------



## bullethead (Aug 18, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> This is all still just according to what you believe to be true.



Walk Off Home Run!


----------



## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2011)

stringmusic said:


> My point exactly!
> 
> Tell that to ol' hummdaddy. Not everyone who starts thinking for themselves will come to the conclusion that God is not real, which is the assertion he was making.



why are you trying to put words in my mouth?i said he used his brain and did not believe the bible that  man wrote.we don't know where we came from and neither do you. i certainly don't believe this mystical god made adam and took a rib and made eve.then all these people came from them.


----------



## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> Angry little athiest ain't ya?
> 
> 
> Tell me...what agenda, exactly, was furthered?
> ...



well for many years ya'll killed people who did not worship your god or do as he had said .made some non believers into believers back then by force .so i guess to brain wash the world to think only your way is the only way , just as ya'll think now!


----------



## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2011)

bullethead said:


> You are right, but don't forget that while many will not be an Atheist, many will separate a God and the organized religion. They very well might continue to believe in a God, but not the one as described in the Bible or Christianity.



exactly!!!! there is a creator of some sort... mother nature/evolution or maybe aliens who knows .nobody knows the answer.


----------



## hummdaddy (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> ...but there is only one watering hole.
> 
> ...and definitely only one that is filled with living water.
> 
> ...just had to throw that christian response out there.  You lobbed it...I was required to hit it.  Know what I mean?



you said it (living water)!!! if you have water and sunlight you have life , that's evolution


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 18, 2011)

Huntinfool said:


> I think what you just posted is pretty much correct.
> 
> 
> Biblically speaking, God is too attractive to turn from.  If you are truly in relationship with him and abide in him, you will not turn.
> ...



I like olives.  Lots of people like olives.  You don't like olives?  Have you tried them?  Several times?  You still don't like them?

Must be something wrong with your mouth.


----------



## crsdos (Aug 18, 2011)

once again in your life you have to make a decision on what to do, its no one choice but yours.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 18, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> I like olives.  Lots of people like olives.  You don't like olives?  Have you tried them?  Several times?  You still don't like them?
> 
> Must be something wrong with your mouth.



Got you a bad olive.


----------



## Huntinfool (Aug 19, 2011)

> I like olives. Lots of people like olives. You don't like olives? Have you tried them? Several times? You still don't like them?
> 
> Must be something wrong with your mouth.



I am not sure I understand how this relates.

It is not a preference issue (speaking biblically...I'm just explaining the Christian perspective..not asking you to accept it).


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 19, 2011)

crsdos said:


> once again in your life you have to make a decision on what to do, its no one choice but yours.



I'm not specifically asking what to do with the tattoo...


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 19, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> Got you a bad olive.



I've tried almost all of them, Ted.



Huntinfool said:


> I am not sure I understand how this relates.
> 
> It is not a preference issue (speaking biblically...I'm just explaining the Christian perspective..not asking you to accept it).



Oh, but it is a preference issue.  It's also a cultural issue, just like taste preferences.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 19, 2011)

Your preferences are what appeals to you. The beliefs you have regarding gods and the afterlife are the ones that appeal to you. If they didn't appeal to you they'd be down there with atheism and scientology.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 19, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> I've tried almost all of them, Ted.
> 
> 
> Oh, but it is a preference issue.  It's also a cultural issue, just like taste preferences.



I mean it was putrid, or not taken care of well, or bug ridden. You ever eat a bad clam or mussel? Whew, it will take your breath away and you would swear off of them for a good while.


----------



## 1gr8bldr (Aug 19, 2011)

Your right, I have noticed that to be true. A deconverter always gets accused of not having the real thing. When they are not accussing each other of not having the real thing. All the different "faiths" out there claim to have the real thing. Major religions, whether Islam, Mormons, JW's, etc and different denominations such as Catholics, baptist, etc all claim this real experience. But common sense tells us that someone is deceiving themselves. But then they claim that it's not them because they are backed up by the book. But they have different books and different translations of those books. So, I suspect that those accusing you of not ever as having had that relationship as highly probable of not having what they themselves proclaim. So, I don't have an answer for you, just an observation of what seems funny to me [how they all, being different, make the same claim]


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 19, 2011)

ted_BSR said:


> I mean it was putrid, or not taken care of well, or bug ridden. You ever eat a bad clam or mussel? Whew, it will take your breath away and you would swear off of them for a good while.



Keep dancing.  You know what I'm talking about and the truth of what I say is undeniable.  Some people have given your brand of God every chance; immersed themselves honestly and wholeheartedly and found the experience lacking or distasteful.  You are being insulting to tell them that the fault lies with them just because it didn't take.


----------



## Thanatos (Aug 19, 2011)

This is no different than getting Thelma (the love of your life at 17) tattooed on your back and then breaking up with her a year or two later.


----------



## TripleXBullies (Aug 19, 2011)

COMPLETELY different.. Did you really read any of it. I'd say 14-22 were years of loving god in a close way. That's not a crush. 

But since you can not care about any of the details and go straight to that, just shows that you don't care to think about it beacuse there's no possible way.. just because you think there's no possible way for it to happen to you.. because you have the real relationship.


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanatos said:


> This is no different than getting Thelma (the love of your life at 17) tattooed on your back and then breaking up with her a year or two later.





TripleXBullies said:


> COMPLETELY different.. Did you really read any of it. I'd say 14-22 were years of loving god in a close way. That's not a crush.
> 
> But since you can not care about any of the details and go straight to that, just shows that you don't care to think about it beacuse there's no possible way.. just because you think there's no possible way for it to happen to you.. because you have the real relationship.



Thanatos' response is just more of the same.  "It's not the product, it's the user".

"Banjo minner will catch some fishes!"


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Aug 20, 2011)

vowell462 said:


> I swear, this dude always puts the funniest stuff on here. As for the OP, I have a cross tattoo on my arm that I got about 10 years ago when I believed. Its still there, havent covered it up, but I do look at is a milestone in my life.



I'm serious man...it can be done.


----------



## ted_BSR (Aug 20, 2011)

ambush80 said:


> Keep dancing.  You know what I'm talking about and the truth of what I say is undeniable.  Some people have given your brand of God every chance; immersed themselves honestly and wholeheartedly and found the experience lacking or distasteful.  You are being insulting to tell them that the fault lies with them just because it didn't take.



Whoa there fella, I didn't say it was "their" fault that they got a bad olive. Bad olives exist through the fault of no man, they just exist.

I have no idea why it "doesn't take" for some people. I reckon the Devil plays a hand in that business (he makes bad olives).

I cast no stones, or insults for that matter. And the next comment is not one either.

Your post expresses the smell of bad olives on your breath.

We may disagree, but this is just an internet forum, and I don't rightly know you at all, yet you appear to have real resentment towards me and my God.

The fact that you trouble yourself to "discuss" the existence of God with believers points to this resentment. If you really didn't care, you would not even bother.


----------



## Thanatos (Aug 20, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> COMPLETELY different.. Did you really read any of it. I'd say 14-22 were years of loving god in a close way. That's not a crush.
> 
> But since you can not care about any of the details and go straight to that, just shows that you don't care to think about it beacuse there's no possible way.. just because you think there's no possible way for it to happen to you.. because you have the real relationship.



It did happen to me. Instead of taking a right at the fork in the road, like you did, I took a left. 

The example is the same. You loved a woman so much you thought y'all would be together forever. You got a tattoo of her name on your back. You then realize the relationship wasn't what you thought it was. 

You loved God and you thought God loved you. You got that tatt because you thought God would not let you down. Several years later in  your perspective God has let you down and is not visible in  your life anymore. What to do now? I think it would be ironic if you could make it Marlyn Manson's face or something....


----------



## G5BONECRUSHER (Aug 30, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> Completely agreed. From this tattoo, I have nothing to lose. I doubt it but just as how I doubted that it was the wrong decision before. I think the main reason I have nothing to lose is just because it's a tattoo. You may have seen Forgetting Sarah Marshal. Plenty of people get tattoos of things that have never meant anything, just cuz.
> 
> This tattoo had a very certain cause and meaning. Not a cause that I wanted a tattoo, but that I wanted a tattoo that was 100% me.
> 
> I guess I didn't expect anything else, but how can the majority of the believers that try to witness to us non believers, here at least, logically try to tell me that I wasn't in what I was always told (and 100% BELIEVED) was a real relationship with a god? The same god a lot in this country hold to be real, holy and the center of their lives and complete reason for being?



That is a tough question, Jesus said in John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Jesus said here that no one can  snatch them from his hand.

 Hebrews 6:4 says For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

I cannot make a judgement about your salvation. However from your description of events. I feel that either your relationship wasn't real, or something has happened and you are either angry or disappointed with God right now and could possibly change your mind later.

I have a sister who fir all intensive purposes disowned  my parents, but they were still her parents, after over ten yrs and events that none of my family expected she has reconciled and Loves them very much. 

Something happened to draw you away... Can you rule out something drawing you back to be reconciled?


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanatos said:


> This is no different than getting Thelma (the love of your life at 17) tattooed on your back and then breaking up with her a year or two later.



Then there should also be no difference in loving your lord. He's just a flavor.. of the week, year, or may lifetime.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanatos said:


> It did happen to me. Instead of taking a right at the fork in the road, like you did, I took a left.
> 
> The example is the same. You loved a woman so much you thought y'all would be together forever. You got a tattoo of her name on your back. You then realize the relationship wasn't what you thought it was.
> 
> You loved God and you thought God loved you. You got that tatt because you thought God would not let you down. Several years later in  your perspective God has let you down and is not visible in  your life anymore. What to do now? I think it would be ironic if you could make it Marlyn Manson's face or something....



I was using this topic as an illustration or evidence of my faith. I can just as easily say the same for you and your god. At any point you may realize your god is as repulsive as Manson.


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## TripleXBullies (Aug 30, 2011)

A pointer - in the AAA forum, most that are targeted here, don't care anything about scripture. You have provided some other sources which is commendable, but no scripture is needed without something else to confirm this.

Of course, you HAVE to say those things about the faith I had, because it can't work for you any other way.  And by comparing me as you did, you have judged, not heaven or he11, but you have made your judgment. Sorry. It's fine though, we all do it all the time.



G5BONECRUSHER said:


> That is a tough question, Jesus said in John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
> 
> Jesus said here that no one can  snatch them from his hand.
> 
> ...


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## G5BONECRUSHER (Aug 31, 2011)

TripleXBullies said:


> A pointer - in the AAA forum, most that are targeted here, don't care anything about scripture. You have provided some other sources which is commendable, but no scripture is needed without something else to confirm this.
> 
> Of course, you HAVE to say those things about the faith I had, because it can't work for you any other way.  And by comparing me as you did, you have judged, not heaven or he11, but you have made your judgment. Sorry. It's fine though, we all do it all the time.



It's OK with me if others  reading the forum don't care about scripture, however you asked  "how can the majority of the believers that try to witness to us non believers, here at least, logically try to tell me that I wasn't in what I was always told (and 100% BELIEVED) was a real relationship with a god?"

You are absolutely right. We all make Judgments or deductions every day, but you are wrong if you think I have judged you. 

I made no statement referencing your Faith or the Faith you had ... but I do know it takes faith to believe or disbelieve...

You asked a question about the logic of the way believer's  have responded to you regarding the  life experience you have explained...

My response was simply intended to give a response to where that logic comes from a believers perspective. I didn't make any kind of judgment about you...

 I thought it was clear that based on my logic and belief there were two options and there may be more options here that I don't fully understand. The interpretation of scriptures about falling away and once saved always saved are debatable within the Church itself.  

 I find it amusing that you ask a question directed toward believers specifically and you expect a response that doesn't include scripture. I believe there is always a need for scripture. It is where much of my "logic" comes from.


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