# Pit bulls, Amstaff, SBT.............



## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

Are they truly one in the same? Or are they really seperate breeds? 

http://www.florencehumane.org/amstaff.htm

Other than that as far as an information link..... Theres not a whole lot of info. I know there are a few of you that are bulldog lovers in general. I dont want this to become ANY SORT of controversy. I just want to know the origin..... of all three breeds. And why they are recognized by different registeries. If this does get out of hand, I will delete this thread. 

This is my new girl.............. She is AKC registered, and an Amstaff..........


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## ejs1980 (Aug 30, 2008)

If she is AKC registered as an amstaff she can also be registered as an APBT in UKC. They are recognized as a seperate but are more like a different bloodline within one breed. That link you posted had about as good of information as I've been able to find on the subject if you look through some of their links also. There's so many bloodlines in all the bull breeds. She's a good looking amstaff.


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## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

ejs1980 said:


> If she is AKC registered as an amstaff she can also be registered as an APBT in UKC. They are recognized as a seperate but are more like a different bloodline within one breed. That link you posted had about as good of information as I've been able to find on the subject if you look through some of their links also. There's so many bloodlines in all the bull breeds. She's a good looking amstaff.



Thats what I was wondering. Thanks for the reply. 

Anyone care to elaborate as to why she was raised with other dogs, but when I got her home, she wants to eat all of mine? I know she is probaly VERY stressed. So she has a crate in my room, all other dogs have been moved out to kennels at the moment, except for my brit pups. They are in a safe zone. 

She melts around the children, and LOVES attention. Shes really a great dog. I guess too the fact that she is in heat doesnt help her attitude, as well as moving into a new home.  I just want to do right by her.


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## UGA hunter (Aug 30, 2008)

A Staffy Bull Terrier is a completely different breed. They were once known as the "nanny dog."


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## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

UGA hunter said:


> A Staffy Bull Terrier is a completely different breed. They were once known as the "nanny dog."



Well see, thats the problem. Everytime I try to research, it all ends up as the same dog.


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## ejs1980 (Aug 30, 2008)

Most pits make good nanny's also. She may warm up to your other dogs with time but I'd wait a while before I left them unsupervised. The other dogs were part of her pack and yours aren't yet. She will have a strong desire to be top dog so as long as the others will submit to her you shouldn't have any problems.  Amstaffs are less aggressive than most of the game bred pit lines but they still have a strong prey drive so don't let anyone run from her if you can help it.  They are great around kids and can take the pain that most small kids will dish out just sitting there wagging their tail while some kids about to rip their ear off.


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## Davans (Aug 30, 2008)

The bully breeds are known to be great with people/kids....not so good with other animals.
mine can be trusted with kids from new born up, there is nothing a kid can do that would cause her to defend herself or harm them, but she will not tolerate any other living creature around her. Cats, dogs, birds, butterflys, bees......she wants to kill them all!


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## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. I have just decided that When my other dogs are out, she will be crated, and vice versa. I would rather be safe than sorry.


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## Gabby (Aug 30, 2008)

The difference is _more_ than skin deep.  It would be like saying that the English Bulldog is just a different bloodline in the "bulldog breed".  The original dogs were from the English Islands (Irish, Scottish, English) and were blood sport dogs - mainly pit fighters after bull baiting was banned.  Smaller dogs were used because the were faster, easier to raise and conceal, and feed. They were esentually the old fassion straight legged bull dogs bred to game little terriers (that were used to extinguish vermin and win their owners money in the rat pits).  These dogs were the begining of the Pit Bulldogs.  Some of the dogs came over to America with their emigrant owners and started the American lines of Pit Bull Terriers. The English Staffordshire Terrier was the result of many years of breeders breeding out much of the "Pit" and making it a suitable family dog ... known to many as the "nany dog" for it's good nature around children. 
    The Pit Bull was originally _registered_ as the American Pit Bull terrier by the United Kennel Club (U.K.C.). It kept track of pedigrees, fight schedules, fight wins and losses, and ran adds for the breeder/owners. The U.K.C. eventually cleaned up their act and refused to take adds for/or mention anything to do with pit fighting.  So for many years the U.K.C. dogs and the American Kennel Club dogs have been essentually the same. (There were even some dogs allowed to be cross-registered within both clubs for a while.)
The American Kennel Club started registering the "American" Pit Bulls under a different name to try and loose the "Pit" stigma, and give ligitimacy to the breed as a family dog before the U.K.C. cleaned up their act.   So the U.K.C.  "American Pit Bull Terrier" and the A.K.C. "American Staffordshire Terrier" are the same thing.
The American Dog Breeder's Association A.D.B.A. was established to take the place of the U.K.C. and catered to the dog fighting world.  It was taken over by Ralph Greenwood (an old time dog fighter) who eventually made the effort to legitimise the regisration by having dog shows with standards for the breed and also weight pulling. 
    The American Pit Bull Terrier of today is comprised of what I would consider three main components :
  The U.K.C. and A.K.C. dogs who are many - many generations from the "Pit" and bred down to be less dog aggressive, more manageable, larger/heavier bred conformation dog.  I.E.  the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
  The other registrations such as the A.D.B.A. having dogs that are anywhere from 30years (the federal anti dog fighting legislation of 1976) to just a couple of generations out pit fighting dogs. (Most of these are untested/unfought dogs.)
  The other American Pit Bull Terriers are the "Game Bred" dogs that are not bred unless they are fought or tested.  I would say that 90% of these dogs that get bred are "tried and true" , with only a very few not being tested and used  for breeding only to preserve a rare/almost extinct  _line_ .  A lot of people claim to have and advertise "game bred" dogs or lines but VERY few actually are!!!

Gabby


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## dog man (Aug 30, 2008)

Gabby said:


> The difference is _more_ than skin deep.  It would be like saying that the English Bulldog is just a different bloodline in the "bulldog breed".  The original dogs were from the English Islands (Irish, Scottish, English) and were blood sport dogs - mainly pit fighters after bull baiting was banned.  Smaller dogs were used because the were faster, easier to raise and conceal, and feed. They were esentually the old fassion straight legged bull dogs bred to game little terriers (that were used to extinguish vermin and win their owners money in the rat pits).  These dogs were the begining of the Pit Bulldogs.  Some of the dogs came over to America with their emigrant owners and started the American lines of Pit Bull Terriers. The English Staffordshire Terrier was the result of many years of breeders breeding out much of the "Pit" and making it a suitable family dog ... known to many as the "nany dog" for it's good nature around children.
> The Pit Bull was originally _registered_ as the American Pit Bull terrier by the United Kennel Club (U.K.C.). It kept track of pedigrees, fight schedules, fight wins and losses, and ran adds for the breeder/owners. The U.K.C. eventually cleaned up their act and refused to take adds for/or mention anything to do with pit fighting.  So for many years the U.K.C. dogs and the American Kennel Club dogs have been essentually the same. (There were even some dogs allowed to be cross-registered within both clubs for a while.)
> The American Kennel Club started registering the "American" Pit Bulls under a different name to try and loose the "Pit" stigma, and give ligitimacy to the breed as a family dog before the U.K.C. cleaned up their act.   So the U.K.C.  "American Pit Bull Terrier" and the A.K.C. "American Staffordshire Terrier" are the same thing.
> The American Dog Breeder's Association A.D.B.A. was established to take the place of the U.K.C. and catered to the dog fighting world.  It was taken over by Ralph Greenwood (an old time dog fighter) who eventually made the effort to legitimise the regisration by having dog shows with standards for the breed and also weight pulling.
> ...


That pretty much said it all.


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## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

Gabby said:


> The difference is _more_ than skin deep.  It would be like saying that the English Bulldog is just a different bloodline in the "bulldog breed".  The original dogs were from the English Islands (Irish, Scottish, English) and were blood sport dogs - mainly pit fighters after bull baiting was banned.  Smaller dogs were used because the were faster, easier to raise and conceal, and feed. They were esentually the old fassion straight legged bull dogs bred to game little terriers (that were used to extinguish vermin and win their owners money in the rat pits).  These dogs were the begining of the Pit Bulldogs.  Some of the dogs came over to America with their emigrant owners and started the American lines of Pit Bull Terriers. The English Staffordshire Terrier was the result of many years of breeders breeding out much of the "Pit" and making it a suitable family dog ... known to many as the "nany dog" for it's good nature around children.
> The Pit Bull was originally _registered_ as the American Pit Bull terrier by the United Kennel Club (U.K.C.). It kept track of pedigrees, fight schedules, fight wins and losses, and ran adds for the breeder/owners. The U.K.C. eventually cleaned up their act and refused to take adds for/or mention anything to do with pit fighting.  So for many years the U.K.C. dogs and the American Kennel Club dogs have been essentually the same. (There were even some dogs allowed to be cross-registered within both clubs for a while.)
> The American Kennel Club started registering the "American" Pit Bulls under a different name to try and loose the "Pit" stigma, and give ligitimacy to the breed as a family dog before the U.K.C. cleaned up their act.   So the U.K.C.  "American Pit Bull Terrier" and the A.K.C. "American Staffordshire Terrier" are the same thing.
> The American Dog Breeder's Association A.D.B.A. was established to take the place of the U.K.C. and catered to the dog fighting world.  It was taken over by Ralph Greenwood (an old time dog fighter) who eventually made the effort to legitimise the regisration by having dog shows with standards for the breed and also weight pulling.
> ...





dog man said:


> That pretty much said it all.




And thank you. That was definately the answer to my question.


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## Tanner boyzz (Aug 30, 2008)

good lookin dog thee pal


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## tuffdawg (Aug 30, 2008)

Tanner boyzz said:


> good lookin dog thee pal



 Thank you. She really is a doll. She has just been thru alot of changes these last few weeks. And I believe her new home here was just the icing on the cake for her nerves.


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## southern_pride (Aug 31, 2008)

What Gabby, purdy much sums it up. they all have common ancestry, but started becoming "different" bloodlines when they started being bred for different reasons(ie; companionship, show rings, and the original game bred versions, which is the original version). 
A rule of thumb,
Am Staffs were bred for show ring.(AKC registered)
Pit bulls were bred for performance.(UKC to an extent, and ADBA registered).
    As far as the reason your female is acting different;
She was taken out of her pack.
   First off she doesn't know any of the dogs, so she's unsure if they'll try to attack her.
   She has no pack ranking, so she'll eventually try to establish herself somewhere in the pecking order.(usually more so with dogs of the same sex).


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## JNG (Sep 5, 2008)

Davans said:


> The bully breeds are known to be great with people/kids....not so good with other animals.
> mine can be trusted with kids from new born up, there is nothing a kid can do that would cause her to defend herself or harm them, but she will not tolerate any other living creature around her. Cats, dogs, birds, butterflys, bees......she wants to kill them all!



Yours must be related to my staffordshire. . . 

When my dog was 4, we tried to incorporate another puppy into the home.  They got along--sort of--so we kept them seperate and supervised their together time (at least 2 hours a day) for six months, waiting for the older dog to accept the younger as part of her pack.  After six months, we finally thought it had happened, so we let them play without close supervision, and didn't keep them seperated any more.  About three days later, the male pup tried to mount our (spayed) older dog . She didn't take to it very well, and we had to clean some blood off the walls and give that poor little fella to someone else.


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## Marty2009 (Feb 25, 2009)

Visual comparison of top-winning UKC, AKC & ADBA dogs

This was something that I've always kinda wanted to see done. There are people who insist that the APBT and the AmStaff are the same dog, and that if you slim down an AmStaff, you'll get an ADBA-ready APBT. And there are others who feel like although both breeds come from common heritage, the last 70+ years have caused them to diverge sufficiently so that they're not the same breed anymore. And then there is the sticky situation that is the UKC ring, where AmStaffs are registered as APBTs and are more prevalent than dogs resembling the old gladiators.

Anyway. I went through and located as many pictures as I could of the current top-winning dogs from each of the big 3 registries. (Disclaimer: The comparisons are not exact -- ie, while the first set are all #1 dogs, the 2nd set might not all be #2s, and so on. The UKC only gives a top 10, and when I couldn't find one of them, I had to use a winning dog from 2007.) I think the side-by-side comparison is rather eye-opening. Conditioning and ring training versus type? Also note the color bias. The ADBA dogs are varied in color (and the only registry with rednose represented in the top numbers), whereas blue fawn seems to be the big thing in UKC, and fawn or brindle in the AKC.  Also interesting to note that all the UKC/AKC dogs are cropped, while the ADBA dogs are largely natural.

(Bear with the load times. I wanted to keep the pics as clear as possible, so I used PNG format, which is larger.)










































Hope you all find this as interesting as I did.


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