# Dress code for church?



## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

Inspired by the thread about shoes, I was reminded about one of my pet peeves about many churches I've visited.  

Do you think there should be a dress code for church?


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## gtparts (Oct 28, 2009)

Chalk me up as Pro-clothes, if one has any to wear......but in any event, I am Pro-attendance.


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## ~becky~ (Oct 28, 2009)

Hard question to answer...i have saw some churches that frown upon people that wear jeans to church...but I say if they have nice jeans and a nice shirt on it's ok..we are all there to do the same thing and that's worship..I really like a church that welcomes everyone no matter what they wear..


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## jmharris23 (Oct 28, 2009)

We don't have one at mine? People typically dress "nice," but nice might mean jeans, khakis or a suit. Just depends on the person but no one cares what someone else is wearing. Not why we're there!


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## rolltide730 (Oct 28, 2009)

I wear dress clothes, either khakis and a shirt, tie and jacket or suit and tie. but as long as someone goes thats what is most important.


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## Randy (Oct 28, 2009)

jmharris23 said:


> We don't have one at mine? People typically dress "nice," but nice might mean jeans, khakis or a suit. Just depends on the person but no one cares what someone else is wearing. Not why we're there!



I think I like your church?


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## gtparts (Oct 28, 2009)

On that note, I have attended worship in the countryside of Haiti and the inner city of Guatemala City, Guatemala. If we are focused on the apparel of others, we might just as well have stayed home.


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## rjcruiser (Oct 28, 2009)

Doesn't God deserve our best?


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

Sweats?


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Doesn't God deserve our best?



What does He consider our "best"?


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## Sargent (Oct 28, 2009)

No.


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## shadow2 (Oct 28, 2009)

go with what you feel comfortable in.


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## CRT (Oct 28, 2009)

A general rule of thumb (no law or code by any means) is, "If your clothes draw attention to your face, God is pleased. If your clothes draw attention to your body, that is sensual and God is not pleased."

I personally think that God looks at the heart rather than the clothes, therefore He knows why you are wearing what you are wearing. 

As for sweats, shorts, flip-flops, and any other clothing that covers the body (at or below the knee and nothing low cut for women), but isn't formal, business casual or the like, I'm not concerned with.

Ambush,
The lady in your avatar would, imo, be too distracting at a church service. But the guy wouldn't have to put shoes on if he didn't want to.


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## Lowjack (Oct 28, 2009)

Says so right over the door at my church," NO NAKED PEOPLE ALLOWED"


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## earl (Oct 28, 2009)

Considering that God never clothed Adam and Eve, they covered their nakedness, I don't think he notices. Cal , that is scripture aimed at the Jews and their laws, I believe.


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## CRT (Oct 28, 2009)

earl,

And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them. 
(Genesis 3:21)

God did clothe Adam and Eve after they had sinned and I didn't quote any scripture in the post you referenced.


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## Randy (Oct 28, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> Ambush,
> The lady in your avatar would, imo, be too distracting at a church service.



Church?  Heck she is too distracting to be on here.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> A general rule of thumb (no law or code by any means) is, "If your clothes draw attention to your face, God is pleased. If your clothes draw attention to your body, that is sensual and God is not pleased."
> 
> I personally think that God looks at the heart rather than the clothes, therefore He knows why you are wearing what you are wearing.
> 
> ...



I agree.  What you wear is often a reflection  of how you feel about yourself.  If someone goes around in baggy clothes they might not feel good about their body.  Likewise, if someone enjoys being fashionable or "well put together" they might feel the need to project something else. If someone wears clothes like the Amazon in my avatar, they might have low self esteem about themselves and try to overcompensate by being "sexy".  That being said, if someone showed up at church wearing some skimpy outfit, perhaps empathy toward them might be a better response than disgust.

Why is sensuality a forbidden part of church service?  Its part of who we are and "right as rain".


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## CRT (Oct 28, 2009)

Randy said:


> Church?  Heck she is too distracting to be on here.



LOL, true dat!


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## Sargent (Oct 28, 2009)

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## BBQBOSS (Oct 28, 2009)

I don't believe in dress codes for church.  Seems materialistic and judgemental.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

BBQBOSS said:


> I don't believe in dress codes for church.  Seems materialistic and judgemental.



Seems totally against the spirit of a religious experience.  Unless one's religion is materialism.


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## Randy (Oct 28, 2009)

ambush80 said:


> Why is sensuality a forbidden part of church service?  Its part of who we are and "right as rain".



It is part of us but ther is a time and a place and church is not a place to cause a man to "think about being sensual."


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## Ronnie T (Oct 28, 2009)

BBQBOSS said:


> I don't believe in dress codes for church.  Seems materialistic and judgemental.




Me to.
I have my own dress code, but I have no expectations of anyone else.  
Not my business.
I would expect folks to dress modestly.  But that goes for all times.
I wonder if the 1st century Christians wore suits and ties.


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## CRT (Oct 28, 2009)

ambush80 said:


> I agree.  What you wear is often a reflection  of how you feel about yourself.  If someone goes around in baggy clothes they might not feel good about their body.  Likewise, if someone enjoys being fashionable or "well put together" they might feel the need to project something else. If someone wears clothes like the Amazon in my avatar, they might have low self esteem about themselves and try to overcompensate by being "sexy".  That being said, if someone showed up at church wearing some skimpy outfit, perhaps empathy toward them might be a better response than disgust.



Wow, well put and I agree.



> Why is sensuality a forbidden part of church service?  Its part of who we are and "right as rain".



Because Christians are commanded to flee from sensuality and what it leads to, sexual immorality.


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## ALLBEEF (Oct 28, 2009)

I say wear your best - If overalls are your best wear overalls - If its clean and its your best wear it.


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## earl (Oct 28, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> earl,
> 
> And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
> (Genesis 3:21)
> ...



I must have been thinking of the fig leaf. I may have to review Genesis again.


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## Huntinfool (Oct 28, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Doesn't God deserve our best?



All the time.....but I worship him every day.  Should I wear a suit every day?


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## earl (Oct 28, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> Wow, well put and I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Because Christians are commanded to flee from sensuality and what it leads to, sexual immorality.





My wife strikes me as being over the top sensual, strange how that has lead to a lot of things ,but immorality hasn't been one.  Who's wife or daughter are YOU looking at in church ?


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## Huntinfool (Oct 28, 2009)

You'd be surprised.....I've seen it happen and it ain't pretty.


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## FLdeerHunter25 (Oct 28, 2009)

This is a very touchy subject. I say you have to have a bit of both. I believe that as visitors or sinners coming to church then they should have the freedom and feel comfortbale enough and be accepted and welcomed. 

As far as church members I believe they should have a respect for God's house. I think women wear dresses, skirts, etc and men dress decent, but again it should be dressed appropriate and their are varying circumstances and things.


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## Jeffriesw (Oct 28, 2009)

I typically do not wear Jeans to church. I either wear Khacki's and a polo or a sport coat and occasionally a full blown suit.
Although I will wear jeans tonight, because after work, I will not time to go home, I will go straight to church from here.


People who dress like crap, when I know they could and do dress better to go to the store, I have a bit of a problem with.

Don't guess it is any body else but but my problem. I have to noodle it around a bit.


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## Melissa (Oct 28, 2009)

Not really, the only thing we should be worried about is seeing souls saved.  If some hobo off the street comes in to hear the word of Lord then he's just as welcomed as the next.

But also, if you are able to dress "nice" for church I believe you should, I would want to look my best if I were to met Jesus that day because He deserves it.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 28, 2009)

I think it would be appropriate to wear whatever one would want to be wearing when meeting one's maker.


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## Tim L (Oct 28, 2009)

rjcruiser said:


> Doesn't God deserve our best?



EXACTLY!  It is not a better of being materialistic, however it is without question a matter of respect...Who should you have more respect for than god!  God EXPECTS our best!  And if all that person has is a tee shirt, shorts, and flip flops, well their doing the best they can...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him!  The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner!  Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!


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## FLdeerHunter25 (Oct 28, 2009)

Melissa said:


> Not really, the only thing we should be worried about is seeing souls saved.  If some hobo off the street comes in to hear the word of Lord then he's just as welcomed as the next.
> 
> But also, if you are able to dress "nice" for church I believe you should, I would want to look my best if I were to met Jesus that day because He deserves it.



That's how I see it as well. Its different if its someone who has never been before or not a active member. But for those who are there everytime the door opens they should dress to the best of their ability, of course like I said circumstances like comin from work are different


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## CRT (Oct 28, 2009)

earl said:


> My wife strikes me as being over the top sensual, strange how that has lead to a lot of things ,but immorality hasn't been one.  Who's wife or daughter are YOU looking at in church ?




Nice twist, but once again, I expect nothing less from you.


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## Dominic (Oct 28, 2009)

If you can't bother to dress up , a small task, for Godhow important is He to you.

Just for information I attend a TLM Church, I've never seen them turn someone away for the way they are dressed, but then I've never seen anyone attend who needed to be asked to leave.


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## MYCAR47562 (Oct 28, 2009)

What scripture says you should wear your best?


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## Huntinfool (Oct 28, 2009)

Rouster said:


> well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him!  The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner!  Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!



That's real nice.....just really nice.  




Bet your church is just a JOY to attend.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 28, 2009)

Lots of good points. 
But, believers are the church. Jesus is the head. We are "in church" all the time.


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## Dominic (Oct 28, 2009)

MYCAR47562 said:


> What scripture says you should wear your best?


 
 ‘Friend, how did you come in here not wearing wedding clothing?’


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 28, 2009)

I think Jesus would say the same thing about a 'wardrobe' as well

Luke 11:
39And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.


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## THREEJAYS (Oct 28, 2009)

jmharris23 said:


> We don't have one at mine? People typically dress "nice," but nice might mean jeans, khakis or a suit. Just depends on the person but no one cares what someone else is wearing. Not why we're there!



The leadership at ours are asked not to wear shorts and most all wear dress pants ,dresses and many w/ ties.We don't have a formal code but tank tops etc. would not be something that would make the wearer feel comfortable.



rjcruiser said:


> Doesn't God deserve our best?



I agree that we should dress as good as we can without that being our main focus


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## MYCAR47562 (Oct 28, 2009)

See i have never understood the dressing up thing i have never felt comfortable in dress clothes i fell comfortable in jeans and a t shirt some times shorts i go to church to learn, praise and hang out with good people. I feel and learn better in my normal clothes.... But to each his own and i can respect yourside of it im just better off my way


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## MYCAR47562 (Oct 28, 2009)

threejays said:


> i agree that we should dress as good as we can *without that being our main focus*



ahhhh a even bigger can of worms


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## Ronnie T (Oct 28, 2009)

MYCAR47562 said:


> See i have never understood the dressing up thing i have never felt comfortable in dress clothes i fell comfortable in jeans and a t shirt some times shorts i go to church to learn, praise and hang out with good people. I feel and learn better in my normal clothes.... But to each his own and i can respect yourside of it im just better off my way



We can dress up all we want but we'll never hide the filth of our mortal lives that's under our clothes.
I presume that God would be more please if we lived with one suit of clothes and rather use our money for the needy and untaught.
Some of you sound a little stuffy to me.  Talking about what someone else should wear to your church.

I've never known of anyone wearing anything to church that I would consider inappropriate.  Except the occasional miniskirt or low-cut blouse.


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## Havana Dude (Oct 28, 2009)

God cares about your soul. If he cared about the vessel it resides in, you would take it with you, and the clothes that cover it. I dress nice for church, but not a suit and tie. I hate them.


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## hevishot (Oct 28, 2009)

mamma n diddy should have taught you the right way to dress for Church....


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## stev (Oct 28, 2009)

God dosent care what you wear .As long as you go to church.


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## Jeffriesw (Oct 28, 2009)

Dominic said:


> If you can't bother to dress up , a small task, for Godhow important is He to you.
> 
> Just for information I attend a TLM Church, I've never seen them turn someone away for the way they are dressed, but then I've never seen anyone attend who needed to be asked to leave.



Dom, Forgive my ignorance, what is a TLM Church?

Thanks, Bill J.


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## jmharris23 (Oct 28, 2009)

Randy said:


> I think I like your church?



You should come some time. There is at least one person there I think you know. Might be a little drive, but worth trying one time anyhow.


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## thedeacon (Oct 28, 2009)

A young man walked into a very well-to-do church, his clothes we old, torn, ragged and dirty, he himself was in bad need of some hot water and soap. As he walked up the isles no one slid over to let him sit down so he walked to the front of the church, over to the wall and sit down with his back to the wall. 

When an old man (probably one of the elders) saw what he had done he got up and walked toward the young, dirty man and everyone in the church was glad to see him make the move to ask the young man to leave.

When the old man approached the young man the old man turned his back to the wall and slid down the wall bones creaking all the way down and sit on the floor. He looked at the young man and said. I hope you don't mind me sitting here with you while we worship God togather.

Who in the church was dressed best and suited to worship God?


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

FLdeerHunter25 said:


> This is a very touchy subject. I say you have to have a bit of both. I believe that as visitors or sinners coming to church then they should have the freedom and feel comfortbale enough and be accepted and welcomed.
> 
> As far as church members I believe they should have a respect for God's house. I think women wear dresses, skirts, etc and men dress decent, but again it should be dressed appropriate and their are varying circumstances and things.



Women in pants?



Swamp Runner said:


> I typically do not wear Jeans to church. I either wear Khacki's and a polo or a sport coat and occasionally a full blown suit.
> Although I will wear jeans tonight, because after work, I will not time to go home, I will go straight to church from here.
> 
> 
> ...



People that dress nice to go to the store do it because they care about what other people might think of them.  When someone dresses for church, I would think that should be furthest from their minds.



Melissa said:


> Not really, the only thing we should be worried about is seeing souls saved.  If some hobo off the street comes in to hear the word of Lord then he's just as welcomed as the next.
> 
> But also, if you are able to dress "nice" for church I believe you should, I would want to look my best if I were to met Jesus that day because He deserves it.



He might be appreciative of the sentiment but I imagine he might pat you on the head and say "That's not really at all what I'm about."



JustUs4All said:


> I think it would be appropriate to wear whatever one would want to be wearing when meeting one's maker.



A sword?



stev said:


> God dosent care what you wear .As long as you go to church.



That's what I would think.  But it seem that people have varying ideas about what God would want us to do, not just about clothes either.  It seems that people will take how they personally feel and use it to construct their personal image of God.  I know I do (God as a concept, mind you).  If I were prudish I imagine that I would think God prudish as well.  If I were warlike I would make God fierce; in my mind.  If I were impressed by clothing I imagine that I would think God was as well.


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## JustUs4All (Oct 28, 2009)

I don't own a sword, but will probably be wearing an assisted opening knife and a gun, both to meet my maker in worship at church and on the body I will leave on the way to the final meeting.


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## Melissa (Oct 28, 2009)

ambush80 said:


> Women in pants?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course He doesn't care, but it is about the sentiment and thought you put into what you wear to His house.  I mean I'm pretty sure He wouldn't want me walking into a house of worship wearing a mini skirt and halter top  Not only would I feel awkward but it would be distracting to others though they should be listening to the preaching, we're only human


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## MYCAR47562 (Oct 28, 2009)

Why dress differntly than normal? Why try and hide what you are to god? Wouldn't that be like adam and eve hiding behind the rock from god?

I feel if you wanna come and fellowship(hang out) with friends then you should be comfortable.


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## ambush80 (Oct 28, 2009)

Melissa said:


> Of course He doesn't care, but it is about the sentiment and thought you put into what you wear to His house.  I mean I'm pretty sure He wouldn't want me walking into a house of worship wearing a mini skirt and halter top  Not only would I feel awkward but it would be distracting to others though they should be listening to the preaching, we're only human





MYCAR47562 said:


> Why dress differntly than normal? Why try and hide what you are to god? Wouldn't that be like adam and eve hiding behind the rock from god?
> 
> I feel if you wanna come and fellowship(hang out) with friends then you should be comfortable.



If you don't think God doesn't mind you wearing a halter top and miniskirt anywhere else on his Creation, then why would he care about you wearing it in his "house"?  

What are clothes for?  Biblically, as I understand it, they were given to us by God to cover our nakedness because we were ashamed (after gaining the knowledge of good and evil).   Then there's the practical aspect of clothing.  Fire suits are for fighting fires, hard hats for construction sites, or for warmth and protection from the elements, etc.

Once a garment performs its major (Biblical) functions : hiding nakedness and protection from the elements then it can be used for other purposes.  For example: displaying wealth, titillation, identification with a group (uniform), etc...

The concept of a dress code may be directly related to the first function of clothing: covering nakedness, but it seems more often that it is related to "secondary functions" of clothing.

Biblically, God wanted us to be naked.  The shame part seems more cultural than universal.


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## Melissa (Oct 28, 2009)

People feel comfortable in different clothes for different situations or locations, I feel most comfortable in blue jeans and tshirts but at church I feel more comfortable in a nice shirt and skirt.

If at the beach, most people feel better in swim suits, but you wouldn't wear that to church.

It's just all preference...I personally could care less what anyone wears, I'm at church to hear the word not see what everyone's wearing...


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## 371V (Oct 28, 2009)

Obviously styles of dress change through out time, so there is and should not ever be a "standard" dress for ALL churches. He instructs us in Romans 14 not to do things that would cause someone else to stumble... So as a Christian, if you’re going to attend a church where every man wears a tie and every woman wears a dress, do so as well so that the attention is on the Lord and not yourself. After all, there's plenty of contemporary churches that don't bat an eye at shorts, t-shirts, flip-flops, ect. Go to one of them if that's your thing.

But no matter where you go, even if it's allowed, your wife/daughters should not wear something that would specifically cause a man to lust. Even the strongest of men's heads are turned to a mini skirt and the weak don't have a prayer...

Everything should be done to keep it Christ centered.... all He ask is we don't  

And if you're reading this and you've not accepted Christ as your Lord and personal Savior. God accepted each and every one of us no matter what we were wearing and He will you too. If you visit or have visited a church and they don't or did not accept you as you are, then they have done a poor job reflecting His perfect unconditional love.. And that's something we have all been guilty of at one time or another, but that is not in His character. So I'll be the first to ask forgiveness and invite you to become part of an awesome, awesome, awesome life with Him.

Jon


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## madpegtod (Oct 28, 2009)

Personally, I wear at least dress pants, shirt and tie to church. On the flip side, I could pretty much care less what someone else wears as long as it's not a distraction from worship. I don't dress to be flashy or anything. I was raised in a small country church. During the weekdays, you would see the farmers in their overalls and nasty from head-to-toe. On Sunday, however; they would be dressed in a suit no matter how hot it was outside. They were strong men of God and I remember how it impressed me then that they would be at their absolute best dressed in God's house. I just hope I make that same impression (both physically and spiritually) on the children of our church. These kids are watching our every move even though it doesn't seem like it sometimes.

On a side note....I teach Adult Sunday School and I told our class that I would rather have them there in church wearing shorts and sandals than at home dressed up.  I welcome all people warmly no matter how they are dressed. Every person at church represents a soul. Some pastors (and members) prefer to have their "fresh fish" already cleaned before they walk in the door. Start with cleansing the soul and everything else will follow suit.

"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."


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## Branchminnow (Oct 28, 2009)

Lowjack said:


> Says so right over the door at my church," NO NAKED PEOPLE ALLOWED"


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## pigpen1 (Oct 28, 2009)

I think if we dress better or more modest to go to a persons funeral than we do to the House of God, then we show more reverence to man than we do God....

 I say wear the best you have, if that is overalls wear that, but we should dress our best.


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## Dominic (Oct 28, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> Dom, Forgive my ignorance, what is a TLM Church?
> 
> Thanks, Bill J.


 

Traditional Latin Mass or Traditional Mass


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## BeenHuntn (Oct 28, 2009)

nuthin wrong with nice attire but

"who can fool God?"

Jesus spoke often of the pharisees being whitewashed tombs.  worrying about the exterior (to be seen by other men) and not taking care of the heart (interior)...


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## PRUDOG (Oct 28, 2009)

It is my humble opinion that GOD really doesn't care what we look like or how we dress, because he has a purpose for us all and we are all trying to live up to it!!!!!


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## pbradley (Oct 28, 2009)

my rule for ME: I dress nice when I visit my God's house.


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## Six million dollar ham (Oct 28, 2009)

ambush80 said:


> What does He consider our "best"?


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## Branchminnow (Oct 28, 2009)

pbradley said:


> my rule for ME: I dress nice when I visit my God's house.



I do as well......


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## fishnguy (Oct 28, 2009)

I have two suits, 4 pair of "khakis", and some jeans. I mix it up, but am always modest. I do attend on a regular basis also, not just Sunday morning. I don't "dress up" on Sunday night or Wednesday night. It'll be jeans or my work uniform.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 28, 2009)

I am God's temple. 
I have his Holy Spirit everywhere I go. 
Don't think I can fool him on Sundays...


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## Dawgy_Daddy (Oct 28, 2009)

Nobody dresses for church any more.  I remember when Easter was the best dressed day of the year.   Always had to go shopping for an Easter outfit.  Now its a pair of clean jeans.  Nothing wrong with that, just showing how much things have changed over the years.  The women dont even dress for Mothers Day anymore.  I remember when we had to dress up to go to a restaurant ( Im talking Capt. Ds or Shoneys.


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## gtparts (Oct 29, 2009)

OK, now.

So the point of this whole thing is????


Oh yeah.......appearances.

Well, I say, "Always look your best!"


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## earl (Oct 29, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> earl,
> 
> And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
> (Genesis 3:21)
> ...



Gen. 2:25 was more what I had in mind. This was how GOD made them...
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.


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## CRT (Oct 29, 2009)

earl said:


> Gen. 2:25 was more what I had in mind. This was how GOD made them...
> 25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.




Yea, that was before they sinned.


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## earl (Oct 29, 2009)

I assume God had nothing to do with their sinning, other than providing the temptation. Why do you think he would be concerned enough with their state of dress ,or undress, to provide clothing ?
I also presume there is some symbolism between the killing involved in clothing them in skins.


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## mtnwoman (Oct 30, 2009)

When I first came back to the fold, I would dress up and take my time to look as nice as I could, just the same as I did when I used to go out to a club, etc etc. (not the same clothes). But I felt that I needed to change one type of pride to another. I felt God at least deserved what I thought the guys or other peeps in the clubs got, my best.

As I'm farther down the road, I usually wear nice comfy clothes. Some of my great looking clothes made me way to uncomfortable in church, trying to hold in the flab....

So I go 'just as I am' and usually it's some nice black baggy pants, my keen shoes and a dressy top. I updo my hair and wear makeup so's I feel good about myself but comfortable. 

I think people look good all dressed up in their best clothes, dresses and suits etc and I'm happy to see the ones there in their jeans, especially the youth group.

I judge no one by what they wear. For me in the beginning it was sort of a thought process I had to work thru. 

Ramblin' Rose.


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## Israel (Oct 30, 2009)

mtnwoman said:


> When I first came back to the fold, I would dress up and take my time to look as nice as I could, just the same as I did when I used to go out to a club, etc etc. (not the same clothes). But I felt that I needed to change one type of pride to another. I felt God at least deserved what I thought the guys or other peeps in the clubs got, my best.
> 
> As I'm farther down the road, I usually wear nice comfy clothes. Some of my great looking clothes made me way to uncomfortable in church, trying to hold in the flab....
> 
> ...



I see that.
Somehow it seems that almost all of our spiritual progress works its way from the outside in, and vice versa.
We go through all these observances about how we look, talk, act outwardly to try and conform to what we believe God is asking of us...but it's always very unsatisfying, isn't it? 
Finally we come to the place...or maybe not finally, but eventually touch upon a truth..."What is there I can possibly 'do for God'?" 
And we at last discover that every bit of spiritual/scriptural admonition, instruction, warning, chastisement, correction and discipline is for this one purpose only...so that God can give and "do" for us the one thing he has always wanted...a clear vision of him... in which our joy is fulfilled in him, his joy fulfilled in us.
God does more with one  moment of an unfiltered, unclouded, unimpeded view of  him than all of our soul (and often likewise scripture) searching attempts to try and "figure him out".


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## Ronnie T (Oct 30, 2009)

Two of the best comments in a long time.


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## CRT (Oct 30, 2009)

earl said:


> I assume God had nothing to do with their sinning, other than providing the temptation. Why do you think he would be concerned enough with their state of dress ,or undress, to provide clothing ?
> I also presume there is some symbolism between the killing involved in clothing them in skins.



I always thought He provided them clothing because they were ashamed of their nakedness. The fig leaf was probably a little drafty. And you're correct about the symbolism.


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## The Original Rooster (Oct 30, 2009)

5pointCal said:


> I always thought He provided them clothing because they were ashamed of their nakedness. The fig leaf was probably a little drafty. And you're correct about the symbolism.



I think that you and earl have a pretty reasonable explanation there. I've been to church in everything from diapers to a tuxedo, the important thing is that I went.


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## Mako22 (Oct 31, 2009)

If you don't go to my church it doesn't matter what you wear because you are just wrong!


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## Mako22 (Oct 31, 2009)

gtparts said:


> OK, now.
> 
> So the point of this whole thing is????
> 
> ...



Nice looking young man.


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## atgolfer (Oct 31, 2009)

Rouster said:


> EXACTLY!  It is not a better of being materialistic, however it is without question a matter of respect...Who should you have more respect for than god!  God EXPECTS our best!  And if all that person has is a tee shirt, shorts, and flip flops, well their doing the best they can...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him!  The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner!  Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!



I think God is more interested in how we respect each other; not by how we dress but how we treat each other. If you dress in a high dollar suit and then verbally treat a person like crap... does the respect of the high dollar suit override how he treated the other person?


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## Israel (Oct 31, 2009)

Rouster said:


> EXACTLY!  It is not a better of being materialistic, however it is without question a matter of respect...Who should you have more respect for than god!  God EXPECTS our best!  And if all that person has is a tee shirt, shorts, and flip flops, well their doing the best they can...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him!  The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner!  Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!



Woo Hoo...you must have some mighty inneresting meetings.

Sounds like my kinda place...ceptin' o'course for the theomological disputational hermeneutical aphoresis and exegesis wha's gone take place as to who gets the first shot... be it deacon or elder.


Rouster, I  feered you dun opened a whole new dispensationalistic can o' woims dere brother. Mebee we could... in keepin wid da topic look at that concordat referenced by that esteemed open can and see who does get the firs' lick in. Not that I mysef be wantin to lick on a can o' woims, so don't be confussing the argument wid personal dining preferences.


Rouster bro, I hope you're about as serious as I am.


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## Tim L (Oct 31, 2009)

atgolfer said:


> I think God is more interested in how we respect each other; not by how we dress but how we treat each other. If you dress in a high dollar suit and then verbally treat a person like crap... does the respect of the high dollar suit override how he treated the other person?



Well you must not understand what I said, so I'll help you out Bud....the cost of what you wear has nothing to do with it.....Its a matter of having RESPECT for the lord, is that something that is really that difficult for you to understand???  Again cost of the clothes has nothing to do with it!  Is the concept of going into the house of THE LORD dressed in a respectful manner that alien and offensive to you or so different from what your used too ???  

Sir when you are going to a church service you are entering the HOUSE OF GOD!! dress is a respectful manner!!  That shouldn't be hard to understand!  If all you you have is a pair of jeans or shorts, and an old tee shirt that's fine!  But if just want to be a "sport" or want folks to stare at you and come in grining with big sunglasses on, a hat with a feather in it, a big ol chain around your neck, a tank top and pair of gym shorts......well....that may be an extreme case, but maybe you get the point now!   

Its not about "haves" and "have not's", big fine suits vs plain clothes.....no ol boy.... its about having RESPECT FOR THE LORD when your in the HOUSE OF GOD!!


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> If you don't go to my church it doesn't matter what you wear because you are just wrong!





X2


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## ddd-shooter (Nov 1, 2009)

I keep seeing this...



Rouster said:


> Its not about "haves" and "have not's", big fine suits vs plain clothes.....no ol boy.... its about having RESPECT FOR THE LORD when your in the HOUSE OF GOD!!



...and I keep thinking this...1 Corinthians 6
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 

   20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


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## mtnwoman (Nov 1, 2009)

Our deacons wear either suits, dress pants shirt and tie, or dress pants and a nice casual golf type shirt on wednesday nights.

I think we should wear what we are convicted to wear. Sometimes it's a learning lesson on obedience or a learning lesson on pride. But I think if you pay attention God will direct your paths...no I don't think, I know He will.

Tank tops, short shorts, short skirts with spiked heels, etc is ixnay. If you are wearing what you wear for a reason, like to attract a man, or to be cool, to show off your tats or piercings or whatever, then you've got the wrong focus.

That's exactly how I interpret the text about not wearing jewelry, makeup, etc....it's not that you can't wear it, it's the reason you're wearing it. Having nice things is not a sin, but if you wear it to look hoity toity, or to look hot...ruh roh...wrong reason.

I'm up way to early.
Love
Ramblin Rose


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## Mako22 (Nov 1, 2009)

earl said:


> X2



I was being serious Earl.


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## Israel (Nov 1, 2009)

What is the "house of God"?

I have little respect for what man does...or builds.
God knows the disrespect we do to his house when we elevate our own. 

Regardless of how we may dress.


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## NightOwl (Nov 1, 2009)

earl said:


> My wife strikes me as being over the top sensual, strange how that has lead to a lot of things ,but immorality hasn't been one.  Who's wife or daughter are YOU looking at in church ?


If you are a male and a woman is dressed provocative or sensuous and  doesnt draw your attention then I would say you are superman of control or your sexual preference may not be for the opposite sex.  Point is church is to concentrate on worshiping our Father in heaven and i disagree in dressing in a manner that would make the attention draw away from that.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> If you are a male and a woman is dressed provocative or sensuous and  doesnt draw your attention then I would say you are superman of control or your sexual preference may not be for the opposite sex.  Point is church is to concentrate on worshiping our Father in heaven and i disagree in dressing in a manner that would make the attention draw away from that.





It is so much easier to blame the women. What kind of clothing makes a man provocative to a woman ? I certainly haven't a clue.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

Woodsman69 said:


> I was being serious Earl.





I didn't doubt that for a minute. I ,on the other hand, am poking fun . Just in case you thought I was serious.


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## NightOwl (Nov 1, 2009)

earl said:


> It is so much easier to blame the women. What kind of clothing makes a man provocative to a woman ? I certainly haven't a clue.


Call it blaming the woman if you like.  Why does a woman dress provocative?  Is it to show her unwavering love of our Lord or is to be attractive? Most likely thye answer is to be attractive.  Being sexually attractive is simply ATTRACTING attention.  Attention that should be on the Lord.

Couldn't tell you what makes a man provocative to a woman but surely a shirt and pants would not be it.  Maybe a tank top showing off muscles?  But there again I wouldnt wear a tank top showing off muscles (not that I have much) or showing off tatoos.  Why?  Because it is distracting from the attention that should be on the Lord.

And lets be honest here.  Woman arent as sex minded as men anyway.  And in my opinion, which is mine and mine alone, I feel women who dress provocative to church are being selfish and self-centered.  I dont feel they are any less of a person, just a little mis-guided. Am I wrong?  Most will probably say yes and thats fine.  Thank God we live in a country where we can at least speak our views!


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

Maybe I am just over sexed. I find a woman dressed in her best or even just nicely dressed just as distractive as one in a lowcut blouse and mini skirt. IMO it has more to do with where your mind is than on how a woman is dressed. Are you sure your mind is on God ?


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## NightOwl (Nov 1, 2009)

earl said:


> Maybe I am just over sexed. I find a woman dressed in her best or even just nicely dressed just as distractive as one in a lowcut blouse and mini skirt. IMO it has more to do with where your mind is than on how a woman is dressed. Are you sure your mind is on God ?


I am sure I am not in denial my friend.  My mind is defiantly on God but I am not going to try and convince someone that I am not human.  Glad you are above the temptations Satin puts in front of us.  I am still new at this I guess cause I can resist the tempations but still the distractions are there for me.  I will keep trying to get better though!


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## sidekicks409 (Nov 1, 2009)

well im a biker and i feel that our best is our leathers so this is what we wear to church to us it doesnt matter what u wear its the unsaved soul that you have invited in with you from the bar or street run you did last night and he walks out a child of God so to me what you wear on the inside and on your attitude is more important than what is on your back just wanted to get it off my mind sorry for speaking out of place if i did


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 1, 2009)

sidekicks409 said:


> well im a biker and i feel that our best is our leathers so this is what we wear to church to us it doesnt matter what u wear its the unsaved soul that you have invited in with you from the bar or street run you did last night and he walks out a child of God so to me what you wear on the inside and on your attitude is more important than what is on your back just wanted to get it off my mind sorry for speaking out of place if i did


EXACTLY!!!!!  At my church, if you show up in a suit you're obviously a guest...and that's no problem at all.  Our volunteers are given T-shirts to wear with their jeans.  

On another note- what's all this stuff about entering God's house???? Someone come up with some exegesis of scripture to explain that concept.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

sidekicks409 said:


> well im a biker and i feel that our best is our leathers so this is what we wear to church to us it doesnt matter what u wear its the unsaved soul that you have invited in with you from the bar or street run you did last night and he walks out a child of God so to me what you wear on the inside and on your attitude is more important than what is on your back just wanted to get it off my mind sorry for speaking out of place if i did




We need more bikers .Here too. Never apologize for speaking what you believe.


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## Havana Dude (Nov 1, 2009)

Shook hands this morning with a young man wearing a Florida Gators t-shirt. I would much rather do that than read about him robbing a convenience store, etc., etc.. Way too much concern for what people are wearing. Shows where folks priorities are. I really don't think there were any suits 2000+ years ago.


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## earl (Nov 1, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> I am sure I am not in denial my friend.  My mind is defiantly on God but I am not going to try and convince someone that I am not human.  Glad you are above the temptations Satin puts in front of us.  I am still new at this I guess cause I can resist the tempations but still the distractions are there for me.  I will keep trying to get better though!





I was messing with you because you always hear about the women titillating the men, but seldom the opposite.


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## RackNBeardOutdoors (Nov 1, 2009)

I haven't read all the post on here, but I will tell you about something I did, and I'm still ashamed of it.

I went to my inlaws church one time, and the guy sat in front of me in a red tank top and blue shorts and tennis shoes. 
I thought to myself "Man, does that guy have any respect for God?" Then, I completely felt like the biggest idiot in the world. I thought, how can I judge this man for wearing what he's wearing in a church or anywhere, when that might be all he has. No matter what, he is going to heaven, and by me thinking about him, that would mess my chances of heaven up.

Personally, I don't wear a suit and tie, but I don't wear blue jeans either. I do like to dress up for the Lord though, but I think to each his own. 

I'd rather serve in the house of the Lord with someone in a tank top and shorts versus him/her not being there at all.

I wish I would have went up to him and told him that I was sorry for judging him, but I have no clue who the guy is now.

So, nah, I don't think it really matters what you wear. I don't think God cares either.


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## NightOwl (Nov 1, 2009)

earl said:


> I was messing with you because you always hear about the women titillating the men, but seldom the opposite.


I agree with you on seldom the opposite.  But I cant help but think if women were as sex minded as men we would not have the society we have.  We would all still be wearing furs living in caves procreating all day.  Women are the model of self control!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 2, 2009)

Havana Dude said:


> Shook hands this morning with a young man wearing a Florida Gators t-shirt. I would much rather do that than read about him robbing a convenience store, etc., etc.. Way too much concern for what people are wearing. Shows where folks priorities are. I really don't think there were any suits 2000+ years ago.



Anyone wearing a Gator teeshirt should be seated in the nursery.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 2, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> I agree with you on seldom the opposite.  But I cant help but think if women were as sex minded as men we would not have the society we have.......  Women are the model of self control!



That's because men ((especially in the church) and this is a generalization) do not understand their role in the kingdom of God.  The Biblical example of how a man is to conduct himself can be seen in The Song of Solomon 2:7, 3:5.  The woman is actually the aggressor romantically before they are married but the man tells her they must wait.  

This is how it is supposed to be, but the mindset of our society has permeated the Church and it is now accepted that "boys will be boys" or "I'm just a man..." etc.

Women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 2, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> That's because men ((especially in the church) and this is a generalization) do not understand their role in the kingdom of God.  The Biblical example of how a man is to conduct himself can be seen in The Song of Solomon 2:7, 3:5.  The woman is actually the aggressor romantically before they are married but the man tells her they must wait.
> 
> This is how it is supposed to be, but the mindset of our society has permeated the Church and it is now accepted that "boys will be boys" or "I'm just a man..." etc.
> 
> Women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.



This is also why some churches get legalistic about women and their dress.  I'm not advocating suggestive dress, but just saying that the idea seems to be, "Since men won't take on the mind of Christ, we need to make the ladies dress so that we are not as likely to be tempted."  The extreme example of this would be the Burk-ah for Muslim women.


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## Israel (Nov 2, 2009)

I think we have exchanged life for ceremony, the household of God for the "house" of some other god,  worship for some form of entertainment with which we seek to fulfill ourselves...and the truth for a lie.
But we are often like that, and God is not weary of us...He just keeps working.


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## Double Barrel BB (Nov 2, 2009)

Israel said:


> I think we have exchanged life for ceremony, the household of God for the "house" of some other god, worship for some form of entertainment with which we seek to fulfill ourselves...and the truth for a lie.


 

*This is TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

*AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 2, 2009)

Israel said:


> I think we have exchanged life for ceremony, the household of God for the "house" of some other god,  worship for some form of entertainment with which we seek to fulfill ourselves...and the truth for a lie.
> But we are often like that, and God is not weary of us...He just keeps working.



Absolutely!


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## earl (Nov 2, 2009)

''Women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control. ''

All my wife has to do is wink.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 2, 2009)

earl said:


> ''Women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control. ''
> 
> All my wife has to do is wink.



And that's the way it's supposed to be Earl!  She's your wife and that is Gods plan for marriage, we are to enjoy our spouses and they are to enjoy us.

The perversion of that is a church full of men that can't control themselves if any woman has so much as her ankles exposed....  In that way, women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.


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## earl (Nov 2, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> And that's the way it's supposed to be Earl!  She's your wife and that is Gods plan for marriage, we are to enjoy our spouses and they are to enjoy us.
> 
> The perversion of that is a church full of men that can't control themselves if any woman has so much as her ankles exposed....  In that way, women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.





Well said !


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## NightOwl (Nov 2, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> The perversion of that is a church full of men that can't control themselves if any woman has so much as her ankles exposed....  In that way, women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.


The bible says we are to run from temptation.  Does that not also imply that we are not to be tempters?  The way you talk it should be OK for women to come into church topless and we as Godly men should have no desire to look at them?  If we had this kind of self control would we not be able to be sinless?  Therefore not ever needing a Savior?  Come on man, lets be realistic.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 2, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> The bible says we are to run from temptation.  Does that not also imply that we are not to be tempters?  The way you talk it should be OK for women to come into church topless and we as Godly men should have no desire to look at them?  If we had this kind of self control would we not be able to be sinless?  Therefore not ever needing a Savior?  Come on man, lets be realistic.


Are you trying to engage in a serious conversation here????  How in the heck did you arrive at that conclusion?!?!?

Where did I EVER imply...even in the slightest way, that women should be able to walk into a church topless and that it would be okay?  As you said, come on man, let's be realistic..

Are you tempted by exposed ankles???


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## mtnwoman (Nov 2, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Anyone wearing a Gator teeshirt should be seated in the nursery.


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## thedeacon (Nov 3, 2009)

*Who's house?*

I keep hearing about God's house in referance to brick, stone, wood or morter. There is no building material in Gods house.

You can't build God a house of God from anything you get at home depot or ace hardware. There is not sanctity in floors or walls, and certeinly not in hard pews.

Your dress is your own business, and Gods. The way I dress when I go to where the saints meet is no business of any mortal person. None whatsoever, none. Did I mention its none of anyone business what I wear to worship. As long as I am morally respectful. Not lude.

I have attended worship services streight from work and looked like a broke pulpwooder. 

Respect comes from inside the heart not in the outside appearance. We are to busy trying to conform to the whem of men and not the will of God. A cup clean on the outside but dirty on the outside is not fit to drink out of, "thats scripture".

I would love to see a preacher pull off his coat and tie during a sermon and just start preaching. Oh wait a minuite I just saw that this past Sunday morning. Wow I'm glad I didn't miss it.


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## NightOwl (Nov 3, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Where did I EVER imply...even in the slightest way, that women should be able to walk into a church topless and that it would be okay?



I guess after rereading below post I read too much into what you were saying.  Also after reading all of your posts I understand what you are saying.  My bad bro if I am wrong about your views on dressing provocatively.



eleuthros1 said:


> "Since men won't take on the mind of Christ, we need to make the ladies dress so that we are not as likely to be tempted."  The extreme example of this would be the Burk-ah for Muslim women.


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## Jeffriesw (Nov 3, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> And that's the way it's supposed to be Earl!  She's your wife and that is Gods plan for marriage, we are to enjoy our spouses and they are to enjoy us.
> 
> The perversion of that is a church full of men that can't control themselves if any woman has so much as her ankles exposed....  In that way, women are not supposed to be the leaders in self control.






See it everywhere you turn, a lot of men have become nothing more than leg hounds. Truly pathetic to see some of them with no more self control than the neighborhood stray.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 3, 2009)

thedeacon said:


> I keep hearing about God's house in referance to brick, stone, wood or morter. There is no building material in Gods house.
> 
> You can't build God a house of God from anything you get at home depot or ace hardware. There is not sanctity in floors or walls, and certeinly not in hard pews.
> 
> ...


Your church sounds like one I could go to!  And that was well stated, I've never seen a building worthy of the glory of The Most High God!  Just good community gathering places for Jesus followers and broken people trying to find The Truth.  Unfortunately, many are consumed with appearance (of structures and people) and other legalistic distractions that keep the body of Christ occupied with disputable matters rather than Kingdom business.

Anyway, well stated!


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## chiefsquirrel83 (Nov 3, 2009)

Church I use to go to...the guys that hunted on a Sunday mornin' would show up in their camo!!! thats devotion!!!! I personally believe you are there for a message and HIM not to impress other people!


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 3, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> I guess after rereading below post I read too much into what you were saying.  Also after reading all of your posts I understand what you are saying.  My bad bro if I am wrong about your views on dressing provocatively.



No problem my friend, it's easy to do in a forum like this.  Thanks for being willing to bring peace.  Also, sorry if my response was brash.

blessings...


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 3, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> See it everywhere you turn, a lot of men have become nothing more than leg hounds. Truly pathetic to see some of them with no more self control than the neighborhood stray.



It truly is a sad situation...especially when it breeds legalism.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 3, 2009)

Rouster said:


> ...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him!


What if this guy is packing heat and decides he doesn't want to get jumped by a pack of church members?  If he suddenly puts a .44 muzzle in your earhole, would you then cease with the lord's work?  I'd argue he'd have every right to defend himself at that point.

As for the women....maybe they should just go burqa because it sure sounds like another religious body I know of that assumes the authority to mete out justice.








Rouster said:


> The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner!  Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!


You assume he'd come back at all.  Are you really serious with this post?


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 3, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> What if this guy is packing heat and decides he doesn't want to get jumped by a pack of church members?  If he suddenly puts a .44 muzzle in your earhole, would you then cease with the lord's work?  I'd argue he'd have every right to defend himself at that point.
> 
> As for the women....maybe they should just go burqa because it sure sounds like another religious body I know of that assumes the authority to mete out justice.
> 
> ...


If he's serious, he may be a new believer that has much more zeal than maturity...or, he could have just had some really unbiblical and legalistic teaching....


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## Jeffriesw (Nov 3, 2009)

Six million dollar ham said:


> What if this guy is packing heat and decides he doesn't want to get jumped by a pack of church members?  If he suddenly puts a .44 muzzle in your earhole, would you then cease with the lord's work?  I'd argue he'd have every right to defend himself at that point.
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that, if I didn't dress well enough to suit someone and they asked me to leave I would do so right then, But for someone to think they would take me behind the woodshed... Trust me, that AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. My wife is quicker with Her piece than I am and she would have someone backed to the wall with Her .357 lickety split crying for their momma
> ...



Why would he, I would assume he was looking for a Church that represents Christ and obviously still hasn't found it yet.


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## Tim L (Nov 5, 2009)

Swamp Runner said:


> Why would he, I would assume he was looking for a Church that represents Christ and obviously still hasn't found it yet.



Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever, I'm dropping it..


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## gtparts (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever, I'm dropping it..



I'm not sure being "identified with Christ" is a matter of dress, at least not in many countries and many churches world-wide (the U.S. included). $800.00 suits and $500.00 shoes with perfectly white teeth and impeccably coiffed hair does not make you a follower of Christ, even if you are standing in St. Peter's Basilica. And I am reasonably certain that Jesus recognizes His own, regardless of dress, as He looks on the inside. True worship places no requirements  on the attire of the supplicant.


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## gtparts (Nov 5, 2009)

BTW, ham, is that the Blue Burqa Group? I think I remember them from an Intel commercial.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever,
> 
> I'm dropping it..



the Pharisees were concerned about appearance...not Jesus.  He compared them to white washed tombs....beautiful on the outside and dead inside.  He also compared them to cups clean in appearance but full of filth.  He wasn't impressed with appearance then and He isn't impressed with it today.  

We are to be set apart from the world by love, not appearance or performance.


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## Ronnie T (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever, I'm dropping it..




I wear a suit to church every Sunday Morning.  At least a sports coat on Sunday evenings.
But in my heart I know its a phony attempt to make me look good.  To make me look like everyone would expect me to look.
In many ways, that suit hides what I really am.  God will not bless me because of what I wear.  People who are impressed with the way I dressed will miss the real purpose of Christian example.

God said when you worship Him to come in humility.  Not with a 149.00 JC Penny suit.

That suit is not me.  And that suit could become a stumbling block for me, and maybe for others.

I'd rather be clothed with Christ.

Sunday afternoon's and Monday-Saturday I'll be wearing my jeans and Justin Ropers.


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## Tim L (Nov 5, 2009)

Well like I said, no one has gotten it yet.....its not about how you look it about RESPECT for the lord...Fella for the last time, its not about the JC Penny Suit; it's about having RESPECT for the LORD.....I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, really I'm not, but I'm just amazed that no one can grasp that....GOD expects the best out of all of us!  I have run into attitudes like this in western Europe, but here; but someone will start whining and squilling its not what you wear to church and will just take it in another direction.....yea, the lord just said well lets all get along when the isrealites had Aaron build a golden calf right; he just said thats alright....right?....and christ just wrung his hands and said well thats alright when he saw the money changers in the temple..... right?.....Its not about the clothes, it's having enough respect for the lord to dress the best you can (and I know there are exceptions like coming from work, being so poor you don't much, etc) but thats not what I'm talking about....Its about dressing in a respectful manner; not looking like you just crawled out of bed and are running to hit the head!   Again respect!!   And yes, Yahweh is a God that loves us, but demands our respect!!   I've run into these watered down, christian lite attitudes in Europe and I know in the northeast and out west its pretty grim, but to find it HERE??..


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## Jeffriesw (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever, I'm dropping it..





Rouster, I get it. I do dress nice for Church, I usually wear either a suit or Khakis as I pointed out in an earlier post.

My Problem with the post I responded to that you got this post from was that the gentlemen I responded to made mention of taking someone behind the woodshed if they didn't dress nice enough. (I'm paraphrasing) I have a HUGE Problem with that.


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## ambush80 (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Well like I said, no one has gotten it yet.....its not about how you look it about RESPECT for the lord...Fella for the last time, its not about the JC Penny Suit; it's about having RESPECT for the LORD.....I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, really I'm not, but I'm just amazed that no one can grasp that....GOD expects the best out of all of us!  I have run into attitudes like this in western Europe, but here; but someone will start whining and squilling its not what you wear to church and will just take it in another direction.....yea, the lord just said well lets all get along when the isrealites had Aaron build a golden calf right; he just said thats alright....right?....and christ just wrung his hands and said well thats alright when he saw the money changers in the temple..... right?.....Its not about the clothes, it's having enough respect for the lord to dress the best you can (and I know there are exceptions like coming from work, being so poor you don't much, etc) but thats not what I'm talking about....Its about dressing in a respectful manner; not looking like you just crawled out of bed and are running to hit the head!   Again respect!!   And yes, Yahweh is a God that loves us, but demands our respect!!   I've run into these watered down, christian lite attitudes in Europe and I know in the northeast and out west its pretty grim, but to find it HERE??..



Bible Belt loosening too many notches for you, huh?


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## Ronnie T (Nov 5, 2009)

All I can tell you Rouster is that I try to be overly respectful of my heavenly Father.
And my intent is to always dress in a respective manner.  Respectful to God, and respectful to those around me.

And I do understand what you're saying.
And I appreciate you feeling that way.


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## dc02 (Nov 5, 2009)

I think one should dress as well as they can.  I think it's a matter of attitude toward God and dressing nice shows you care.

Of course if someone doesn't have the nicest clothes, I don't want to look down on them.  And if they don't believe that the way they dress has any reflection on their relationship with God, I can't really fault them for that.

I'd rather see someone in a loin cloth that is worshiping honestly than someone in an Armani suit that's just there for the show or to network. -But I don't believe my opinion is really relevant when it comes to others' relationship with God.  I don't know what's in the guy with the Armani suit's heart(unless he tells me).


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster-
You said, "...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him! The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner! Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!

Please tell me, by scriptural exegesis, how you equate Jesus' reaction to people turning the temple into a marketplace with someone who can afford nice clothes showing up to church in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt. 

Do you understand the scriptural position of an Elder or a Deacon in the church?  It sounds like you think they're the secret service sent by God to weed out the "riff-raff".

Is the Church a building or is it a body of followers of Jesus?  

It seems that yours in an extreme adventure of missing the point...you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!


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## leroy (Nov 5, 2009)

Threads such as these make me realize how much I love my Church and Church family!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 5, 2009)

leroy said:


> Threads such as these make me realize how much I love my Church and Church family!



Me too.  At mine people wear what that want, and they don't worry too much about what someone else is wearing.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 5, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Man....I can't believe no one gets it...it's not about legalism, fancy clothes, plain cloths; etc., just plain ol respect for your maker...if you don't have enough respect for God.....it's not a question ....well no one gets it; that's sad and it says alot about the inroads that Satan has made in diluting our churches..... The bible says that you should be able to tell christians apart from the world, but.....Sad that just inheriently knowing that you should honor God with your best, whatever your best is, has become such an alien and distasteful idea to some that they know longer can relate or even understand what it means....all I can say is wow, sometimes you really can't tell the world from christians anymore.....but whatever, I'm dropping it..



So you WERE serious about ganging up on somebody that doesn't dress to your standards.   

So do you own a tux?  If so, do you wear it to church?  I consider that to be the pinnacle of fine attire.  I'm not religious but if I ever start a church everyone (male) will be required to have a tux each week.


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## Six million dollar ham (Nov 5, 2009)

gtparts said:


> BTW, ham, is that the Blue Burqa Group? I think I remember them from an Intel commercial.



No, it's how the Taliban require women to dress in Afghanistan.  They are the religious body that tells everyone what they can and can't do of course.  Much like the scenario Rouster described earlier, they will deliver a swift beating (or worse) if you don't conform to their rigid standards.


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## Israel (Nov 6, 2009)

Somehow we have missed the role and the importance of the Holy Spirit's leading when we congregate...in addition to his continuing role in every area of our lives.
I have been to meetings where men not only imagine they have been given more authority than to lead by example, but will easily think they can dominate others in every other aspect.
Sit, stand, worship louder, kneel, do this do that...does anyone really imagine God is glorified in such monkey business?
When will the church realize she has only one head, that he is in absolute control of every member...and those who may come together for some reason than the Lord's glory will easily be identified by him and chastened, rebuked, and set in order by his hand alone?
Religion kills the soul, and brings no glory to the God of all grace.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

I agree Israel, and one thing I've come to see recently is that most o the new testament letters to the churches are corrective in nature. So it would appear that the church that we tend to idolize in Acts had issues of it's own.  The subsequent letters were sent to try to get the focus back on Jesus and the kingdom of God and off of tertiary matters.... I say that to say this.  Many churches don't get it today, they get caught up in disputable matters rather than kingdom business.  It's just like the new Church 2000 years ago....we still tend to miss the point today.  

In spite of that fact, Paul still addressed them as brethren....fellow followers of Jesus.  Perhaps misguided to some extent, but followers nonetheless.  So their silly legalism didn't separate them from their salvation or their citizenship in the kingdom.

I'm not sure if this is making sense or not, my point is, if the church was missing the point 2000 years ago I should not be surprised to see the church missing it today.  I have grown in Christ since the day of salvation, but I'm sure I still have some religious hang-ups.

I think the body of Christ should begin leading it's weaker members like Paul did, displaying the fruit of the spirit.  The world, the flesh and the devil say,"beat the crap out of em'!". We should not look like the world...set apart by love. Jesus said they would know we are His disciples by our love.

Sounds mushy, but Jesus was a heck of a man and He displayed this in His life. 

Ok, I'm rambling...it's too early for me to be thinking clearly.


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## stevo15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Our church has a ministry to people that suffer from various addictions.  Some of these don't have money to afford anything other than the jeans they wear every day, shorts, and whatever else they may have.  The members in our church have actually started dressing down more so that everyone can be comfortable and not feel out of place.  Suits and ties are more rare than a pair of jeans.  This is not a small church either.  No one was told to do this, but it was just a natural occurence.  Dress codes have nothing to do with a relationship with Christ, so I can't see how having one could be part of a true churches rules.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

stevo15 said:


> Our church has a ministry to people that suffer from various addictions.  Some of these don't have money to afford anything other than the jeans they wear every day, shorts, and whatever else they may have.  The members in our church have actually started dressing down more so that everyone can be comfortable and not feel out of place.  Suits and ties are more rare than a pair of jeans.  This is not a small church either.  No one was told to do this, but it was just a natural occurence.  Dress codes have nothing to do with a relationship with Christ, so I can't see how having one could be part of a true churches rules.



Jesus is the central focus.  If He is the one common denominator in our churches then we are all brothers an sisters in Christ.  If we are all (Jesus followers) in Christ then even if we have allowed ourselves to be distracted by tertiary matters we are still in the kingdom....a church that gets caught up in this legalism is no less a church, it's still the body....just perhaps a bit dysfunctional due to poor exegesis of scripture.  And to some degree, we all suffer from it.  From the most Godly and kingdom minded followers and churches to the most reliously distracted and dysfunctional.


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## Madman (Nov 6, 2009)

Who cares what "we" think about our dress during worship?  Why don't we look at what God says?

Just a thought.


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## dc02 (Nov 6, 2009)

I think there is some importance to the sit, stand, kneel part of church.  I don't think of it as someone telling me what to do, but rather sitting is the neutral position so we aren't all beat from standing.  Kneeling symbolizes your humility.  And you stand when you sing so you can sing well.

I also value the ritual because without it, people tend to free-form.

There are also meditative elements that are good for your mind and allow you to reflect, clear your head of daily matters, etc.

I look at the world considering everyone is in a different place with their relationship with God.  Some are far away, some have turned away, some go through the motions, some have a strong connection and live to honor God.  I strive to honor God in my daily life, but I've fallen down, turned away, gone through the motions, etc.  

I think if you think you have the perfect spiritual life, you're setting yourself up for a fall.  -But I reckon that's part of your journey.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

dc02 said:


> I think if you think you have the perfect spiritual life, you're setting yourself up for a fall.  -But I reckon that's part of your journey.


yes sir, everytime I think I have things sorted out God shows me how much I don't know still.


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## stevo15 (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Jesus is the central focus.  If He is the one common denominator in our churches then we are all brothers an sisters in Christ.  If we are all (Jesus followers) in Christ then even if we have allowed ourselves to be distracted by tertiary matters we are still in the kingdom....a church that gets caught up in this legalism is no less a church, it's still the body....just perhaps a bit dysfunctional due to poor exegesis of scripture.  And to some degree, we all suffer from it.  From the most Godly and kingdom minded followers and churches to the most reliously distracted and dysfunctional.



No doubt they are still brothers in Christ.  The problem is that is' hard to win others to Christ when you are stuck in your ways and not willing to accept people as they are.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

stevo15 said:


> No doubt they are still brothers in Christ.  The problem is that is' hard to win others to Christ when you are stuck in your ways and not willing to accept people as they are.



I agree 100%...


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## Israel (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> I agree Israel, and one thing I've come to see recently is that most o the new testament letters to the churches are corrective in nature. So it would appear that the church that we tend to idolize in Acts had issues of it's own.  The subsequent letters were sent to try to get the focus back on Jesus and the kingdom of God and off of tertiary matters.... I say that to say this.  Many churches don't get it today, they get caught up in disputable matters rather than kingdom business.  It's just like the new Church 2000 years ago....we still tend to miss the point today.
> 
> In spite of that fact, Paul still addressed them as brethren....fellow followers of Jesus.  Perhaps misguided to some extent, but followers nonetheless.  So their silly legalism didn't separate them from their salvation or their citizenship in the kingdom.
> 
> ...



You are spot on...
The issues every generation have dealt with are the issues and pitfalls this generation deals with. You are entirely correct, this depsite our "pride of life" which lets us look back in the scriptures at our first brothers and imagine that in some way we have surpassed them.
The call is always back to liberty and the simplicity of devotion to Christ...many are willing to beguile us of both.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Israel said:


> You are spot on...
> The issues every generation have dealt with are the issues and pitfalls this generation deals with. You are entirely correct, this depsite our "pride of life" which lets us look back in the scriptures at our first brothers and imagine that in some way we have surpassed them.
> The call is always back to liberty and the simplicity of devotion to Christ...many are willing to beguile us of both.



Discussions on these issues are a good thing.  I know some folks get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are questioned, but that's just human insecurity.  Hopefully some will stop and think when they read these threads and as a result become more conformed to the image of Christ.


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## Tim L (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Rouster-
> You said, "...however if someone comes into the church (assuming its a man; if its a lady then its up to the women of the church to do what needs doing) dressed the same way just because he doesn't care.....well the elders and deacons should drag his fanny out behind the church and beat the living crap out of him! The next sunday, he will come to church dressed in a respectful manner! Remember what Jesus himself did to the disrespectful money changers in the temple!
> 
> Please tell me, by scriptural exegesis, how you equate Jesus' reaction to people turning the temple into a marketplace with someone who can afford nice clothes showing up to church in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt.
> ...



Alright, that was a rhetorical statement about dragging people out of the church and beating the crap out of them because of their dress.  ...I do not know if that has ever happened anywhere and I wouldn't condone it...And just to satisfy your curiosity, elders ARE responsible for the spritual well being of the church (mostly senior members), while deacons ARE typically younger adults responsible for physical matters....But it saddens me to say, at least from your response, it still appears that you have no idea or grasp about what my point was.....respect sir, God expects and demands our respect....but you went back to the same old liberal whinning and squilling about fine cloths vs the t shirt....Sometimes I have a bad habit of being blunt and telling the truth; sometimes it's good; sometimes well...folks whine and cry and sometimes I'm flat wrong ...but one thing I have exposed here is a lack of understanding and what Gods expects from us....50 years ago, 40 years ago, 20 years ago this wouldn't even be an issue or a question.  Christains understood respect....but as seen here, some just can't see past materialism....keep going back to "fancy cloths" vs tee shirt" or whatever instead of grasping a concept as simple as reverence for God and respect.....I know it's not politically correct to be blunt and to tell the truth, but I would have expected better...


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## Israel (Nov 6, 2009)

Rouster said:


> Alright, that was a rhetorical statement about dragging people out of the church and beating the crap out of them because of their dress.  ...I do not know if that has ever happened anywhere and I wouldn't condone it...And just to satisfy your curiosity, elders ARE responsible for the spritual well being of the church (mostly senior members), while deacons ARE typically younger adults responsible for physical matters....But it saddens me to say, at least from your response, it still appears that you have no idea or grasp about what my point was.....respect sir, God expects and demands our respect....but you went back to the same old liberal whinning and squilling about fine cloths vs the t shirt....Sometimes I have a bad habit of being blunt and telling the truth; sometimes it's good; sometimes well...folks whine and cry and sometimes I'm flat wrong ...but one thing I have exposed here is a lack of understanding and what Gods expects from us....50 years ago, 40 years ago, 20 years ago this wouldn't even be an issue or a question.  Christains understood respect....but as seen here, some just can't see past materialism....keep going back to "fancy cloths" vs tee shirt" or whatever instead of grasping a concept as simple as reverence for God and respect.....I know it's not politically correct to be blunt and to tell the truth, but I would have expected better...



Rouster...perhaps your assumption is that you are addressing teenagers. I believe many that have responded are brothers and sisters that have been in the Lord for at least a "little while" and the issue of 20/30 years ago is not lost on them.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ah, so rhetorically speaking, the role of the elders and deacons is to dole out discipline to those who show a lack of respect for God by what they wear?  Again, show me that in scripture.

Elders are older? Are you thinking elder-ly...the root word being elder so therefore they're older?  Again, where does the Bible say that?

Deacons younger???? Same question.

You're doing a great job of making my point...

Again, respect And reverance has NOTHING to do with what a person is wearing.  The good ol' days ended in the Garden of Eden, not 50, 40 or 20 years ago.  They'll return with Jesus.

I hope you're dressed properly when He comes back!


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## ddd-shooter (Nov 6, 2009)

Can a person be respectful in a t-shirt? 
Is a persons spiritual well-being determined by their dress? 

How about David? He danced himself out of his clothes and was naked. Do you think God thought he wasn't respectful?
2 Samuel 6
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod....

....20Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! 

   21And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

1samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."


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## NightOwl (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Discussions on these issues are a good thing.  I know some folks get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are questioned, but that's just human insecurity.  Hopefully some will stop and think when they read these threads and as a result become more conformed to the image of Christ.


Right on!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 6, 2009)

I have plans to present a very unusual sermon one Sunday morning.  I'm gonna wait until I'm willing to be fired before I do it.

I'm going to begin the lesson wearing a fine black suit and tie.  During the lesson, which will deal heavily with God's saving grace, I will take off my coat and reveal a longsleeved white shirt that is ripped, torn, and dirty.  So ragged its barely staying on my shoulders.  Later I'll remove my shoes to display my socks that have holes in them so my toes poke through.  Next, my trousers.  My extra pair of boxer shorts will be ripped to shreds.

The Lesson:  I'm not what I appear to be..  You're not what you act like you are.

I've been thinking about this lesson for twenty years or more.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> I have plans to present a very unusual sermon one Sunday morning.  I'm gonna wait until I'm willing to be fired before I do it.
> 
> I'm going to begin the lesson wearing a fine black suit and tie.  During the lesson, which will deal heavily with God's saving grace, I will take off my coat and reveal a longsleeved white shirt that is ripped, torn, and dirty.  So ragged its barely staying on my shoulders.  Later I'll remove my shoes to display my socks that have holes in them so my toes poke through.  Next, my trousers.  My extra pair of boxer shorts will be ripped to shreds.
> 
> ...


Do you think you would really be fired for that?  That sounds like a GREAT illustration!  Mind if I "borrow" that from you?


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

ddd-shooter said:


> Can a person be respectful in a t-shirt?
> Is a persons spiritual well-being determined by their dress?
> 
> How about David? He danced himself out of his clothes and was naked. Do you think God thought he wasn't respectful?
> ...


That's a great scriptural example...thanks ddd-shooter!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> Do you think you would really be fired for that?  That sounds like a GREAT illustration!  Mind if I "borrow" that from you?



Be my guest.
As a matter of fact, you go first.

I'm concerned about the 3 little ladies that are going to have a hissy fit when I disrobe in front of everyone.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Be my guest.
> As a matter of fact, you go first.
> 
> I'm concerned about the 3 little ladies that are going to have a hissy fit when I disrobe in front of everyone.



Seriously, in the next few weeks I'm going to do exactly that...at my church it'll be no problem.  I'll PM you about it when I do it.  Thanks!

And good luck with those 3 little ladies...it probably won't be their first or last hissy fit...


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## ddd-shooter (Nov 6, 2009)

eleuthros1, 
I would love to know how that goes over as well...


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 7, 2009)

Actually, they'll know something is up when they see me there in a suit!  Once I start taking it off to reveal tattered clothes underneath they'll get it.  The thing is, even dressing in jeans and T-shirts, people can still hide their real issues and play the "church game".


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## Israel (Nov 7, 2009)

dc02 said:


> I think there is some importance to the sit, stand, kneel part of church.  I don't think of it as someone telling me what to do, but rather sitting is the neutral position so we aren't all beat from standing.  Kneeling symbolizes your humility.  And you stand when you sing so you can sing well.
> 
> I also value the ritual because without it, people tend to free-form.
> 
> ...




Since I was the one that mentioned the sit/kneel/stand instructions, I'll take your post as a response to that.

I think if you reread what I'd written you may find I didn't say anything about having an issue with any of those at all...just with the instruction/command of it.

The heart of what I did propose and with which I remain in staunch support is this...there is no authority given to any, from seasoned apostle to the newest convert coming up from the water to instruct beyond that which he demonstrates out of his life by example.

(Now, it is nonetheless almost laughable that I, the least and weakest of all the saints, would be writing this.)
But I will not insult God's good humour by being too timorous to speak.

But, that being said, there is no more powerful spiritual impetus to conformity to Christ than what is worked into and through a disciple as he himself submits to the Holy Spirit. Understand this in no way diminishes the primacy of our Lord, he alone is preeminent in all things, and indeed, he alone is the One to which the Holy Spirit testifies. Likewise, he alone is the one to whom the scripture speaks...as the one who went about, as our brother records..."both to do and to teach". Acts 1:1.

It would do well for any of us who profess the Lord to consider what our brother Paul wrote as to instruction when we come together. Especially any and all that believe they have been called as leaders in the Lord's house.
We may disagree about many things in those instructions, may indeed have many opinions regarding appropriateness and applicability, but I have no reluctance in categorically stating that if there is any instruction it is certainly this: it is neither a "one man show", nor is anyone in charge except the Holy Spirit.

You say you like ritual...you are free to enjoy that to the depths of your being, you are free to sit, kneel, stand, stand/kneel/sit, choose whatever order, keep or discard whatever order you so desire. What you, nor anyone else is free to do, nor instruct (except again, by example), is the imposition of such on others as the "way" in which God is worshiped. 
Forbid not speaking in tongues. 
But no where are we told..."everyone must".
 Let the prophets speak...two or three... 
"Let" everything be done decently and in order surely again does not mean this...make sure someone takes "control" to ensure it does. 
We think we know something of Uzzah

We have a world full of the best order man can devise, likewise religious institutions that are no less devoted to hiding the glory of God and the liberty of Christ.

Making way for the Holy Spirit may seem awkward, no, definitely will seem awkward to the carnal mind that is used to man's imposition of will and consequence. 
Likewise, there are more than enough wolves willing to order God's people about as though they are chattel.

Some seemed to like Paul's preaching over Apollos', and vice versa...so be it. The issue came when those same ones were willing to identify themselves according to such...for Paul well saw (as a lookout in a crows nest) precisely where that was headed...and thus he saw far ahead to us today...long ago split off and derailed "I follow Luther" "I follow Calvin" "I follow Rome" "you must always speak in tongues"  "you must never speak in tongues"...and on and on. 
As for free form it would seem it then requires us each to deal with one another as individuals, and likewise free to address (if, and when, need be) the form as being from the Holy Spirit or not... 
The choice is imposition of our own order to preclude discomfort, but smooth going does not always mean progress.

But as you say, this is our journey...and there is only One who can see us all safely home.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> Be my guest.
> As a matter of fact, you go first.
> 
> I'm concerned about the 3 little ladies that are going to have a hissy fit when I disrobe in front of everyone.



I'm trying to find it, but I understand that David Ring did this at Liberty University years ago...it was a big hit!


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## Ronnie T (Nov 13, 2009)

eleuthros1 said:


> I'm trying to find it, but I understand that David Ring did this at Liberty University years ago...it was a big hit!



I don't know him.
Maybe there's a video.


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## bigbrannew (Nov 13, 2009)

stev said:


> God dosent care what you wear .As long as you go to church.




AMEN, X2 i don't care what someone wears to church. the important thing is that you're there praising the lord.


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## eleuthros1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Ronnie T said:


> I don't know him.
> Maybe there's a video.



He has cerebral paulsey and he's a bit difficult to understand at first, but once you pick up what he's puttin' down you quickly find out he is a great speaker...I'm sure a google search would do it.


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## coonhunter1975 (Nov 24, 2009)

*clothes*

i think the women of the church want dress codes so there husbans wont be trying to sneak a peek at the young lady in a tank top. and the men want dress codes so the wifes  wont be trying to sneek a peek and the  cowboy jeans     lol


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## NightOwl (Nov 24, 2009)

coonhunter1975 said:


> i think the women of the church want dress codes so there husbans wont be trying to sneak a peek at the young lady in a tank top. and the men want dress codes so the wifes  wont be trying to sneek a peek and the  cowboy jeans     lol


Then there is the Bible instruction but who remembers why this thread was started?


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## ambush80 (Nov 24, 2009)

NightOwl said:


> Then there is the Bible instruction but who remembers why this thread was started?



Because I wanted to see discernment in action.


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## HuntinTom (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmmm...  When I sleep, I go naked - When I go to the beach, I wear a swimsuit - When I hunt, I put on camo fatigues - When I run, I wear my running shorts and a technical shirt (Except on hot summer days when I go topless) - In the winter, I wear a coat - Summer, short sleeves - In the rain I wear a hat and raincoat - When sunny, I put on my sunglasses...  

Maybe I'm just pragmatic, but, with all of these, and the many other place I might go, my dress is contextual...  

When I go to church I wear what I think is appropriate for the day -- If I'm in a formal church as a pastor and they are accustomed to robes, I'll wear a robe - When I'm in one of our more contemporary settings as a pastor, I'll typically wear something typical of that particular congregation  - jeans, etc...  I feel equally comfortable in both.

So, when I'm in a church as a pastor, I'm going to try to be sensitive and honoring to the culture just as any good missionary would - If I were with an indigenous tribe in the Amazon, I'd gladly and willingly don the loincloth (Course' somebody might have to tell me which was the front, and which was the back, if there is, in fact, any difference...)  

When I'm able to go to church as just a congregant, I still, typically, try to stay similar to the culture of that particular church in dress.    But - What ever ANOTHER chooses to wear - That's your business, and I'm not bothered in the slightest one way or the other.

All that said, though,  if you came in dressed like a chicken - It would definitely get my attention, and prompt me to try to figure out how I might best meet you right there in your chicken suit...    Maybe in the "time of greeting one another" I'd just shake your wing and cluck out a "Good to see you today Penny-Henny.."

But, I rather doubt God is all wadded up on the throne calling a troop of angels together fretting over what too many of us, and others, are wearing to church on any particular Sunday - I'd think, rather, God's concern just might be more on the _lack of_ clothing, food, shelter, education and opportunities that poor guy we all passed on the side of the road might be enduring...


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## gtparts (Dec 2, 2009)

Appreciate the contribution. You really stuck the landing!


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## MX5HIGH (Jun 21, 2014)

1 Sam 16: 6-7 pretty much sums it up for me. 

 6 When they came, he looked on Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord's anointed is before him.” 7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


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## Phillip Thurmond (Jun 21, 2014)

My church is come with what ever you want.  Heck I do parking lot duty each week and I wore shorts last week.  Our pastor wore jeans and a nice long sleeve shirt not tucked in.  If your worried about clothes I dont think your heart is in the right place.  Got is interested in our hearts not our clothes.  If he was worried about our clothes he would have dressed Adam and eve in clothes.


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## gemcgrew (Jun 21, 2014)

Phillip Thurmond said:


> If he was worried about our clothes he would have dressed Adam and eve in clothes.


You may have just defeated your own argument.


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## ambush80 (Jun 21, 2014)

I remember this one.  It was back when we had to all play in the same room.

What would you say to someone who came in wearing a miniskirt just a weeee bit too small?


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## 1gr8bldr (Jun 21, 2014)

ambush80 said:


> I remember this one.  It was back when we had to all play in the same room.
> 
> What would you say to someone who came in wearing a miniskirt just a weeee bit too small?


I would say, wonder why the Holy Spirit does not dress everyone the same..... Kind of like ... wonder why Santa likes rich kids


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## 1gr8bldr (Jun 21, 2014)

We have come a long way from "women keeping their head covered" to women dressing as if they were trying to be the hottest woman at church


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## ambush80 (Jun 21, 2014)

1gr8bldr said:


> I would say, wonder why the Holy Spirit does not dress everyone the same..... Kind of like ... wonder why Santa likes rich kids



He does pretty well with the Amish, and the Muslims.


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