# Do you really think God is going to allow Islam to take over His world?



## crackerdave (Aug 24, 2010)

If you do,I pity you.


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## possum steak (Aug 24, 2010)

Not at all


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## THREEJAYS (Aug 24, 2010)

Not His world , but he can sure allow the bad to bring about his purpose.


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## crackerdave (Aug 24, 2010)

THREEJAYS said:


> Not His world , but he can sure allow the bad to bring about his purpose.



Yes - I'm living proof of _that!_


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## jkoch (Aug 24, 2010)

No, but I think he would like to see us mortals take a STAND. If we are not willing to stand up for God why would we think he would protect us?


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## Lowjack (Aug 24, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> If you do,I pity you.



Whom Do you think the False Prophet is ?
Or don't you believe the Bible ?


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## Roberson (Aug 24, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Whom Do you think the False Prophet is ?
> Or don't you believe the Bible ?


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## apoint (Aug 24, 2010)

If your luke warm he will spew you out..
  So fight the good fight,.


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## formula1 (Aug 24, 2010)

*Re:*

I don't think so.  Can islam take away the Spirit of God in you?


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## ronpasley (Aug 24, 2010)

formula1 said:


> I don't think so.  Can islam take away the Spirit of God in you?



No



apoint said:


> If your luke warm he will spew you out..
> So fight the good fight,.



Amen


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## Jeffriesw (Aug 24, 2010)

I have no Idea what God's sovereign plan for the future is..

He used babylon and other nations to smack the tar out of Israel numerous times, He allowed John the Baptist to sit in prison and then be beheaded at the supposed whim of a girl, He let a crowd stone Stephen to death, Tradition tells us all but 1 Apostle were martyred, His own Son was hung on a cross at His divine decree...
If you could ask any of them if God would allow something like that to happen to us, what do you think their response would be? 

Why would we be any different?

Again, I have no idea what His sovereign plan is, But I know he is Sovereign and it's His will, not ours that will always be done.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 24, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> I have no Idea what God's sovereign plan for the future is..
> 
> He used babylon and other nations to smack the tar out of Israel numerous times, He allowed John the Baptist to sit in prison and then be beheaded at the supposed whim of a girl, He let a crowd stone Stephen to death, Tradition tells us all but 1 Apostle were martyred, His own Son was hung on a cross at His divine decree...
> If you could ask any of them if God would allow something like that to happen to us, what do you think their response would be?
> ...




Those are very important comments in this thread.


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## ronpasley (Aug 24, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Those are very important comments in this thread.



I agree


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## christianhunter (Aug 24, 2010)

Swamp Runner said:


> I have no Idea what God's sovereign plan for the future is..
> 
> He used babylon and other nations to smack the tar out of Israel numerous times, He allowed John the Baptist to sit in prison and then be beheaded at the supposed whim of a girl, He let a crowd stone Stephen to death, Tradition tells us all but 1 Apostle were martyred, His own Son was hung on a cross at His divine decree...
> If you could ask any of them if God would allow something like that to happen to us, what do you think their response would be?
> ...



Great post my Brother.


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## crackerdave (Aug 25, 2010)

So - when the final day comes,and God finally gets fed up with our foolishness and sends His Son to get the believers,_Islam_ will be the reigning power in this world? May be. I don't know,either - that's why I asked.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 25, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> So - when the final day comes,and God finally gets fed up with our foolishness and sends His Son to get the believers,_Islam_ will be the reigning power in this world? May be. I don't know,either - that's why I asked.



God will destroy them.  God will repay.


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## Jeffriesw (Aug 25, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> So - when the final day comes,and God finally gets fed up with our foolishness and sends His Son to get the believers,_Islam_ will be the reigning power in this world? May be. I don't know,either - that's why I asked.



Who knows, maybe he will not show up here to get us, but show up to condemn them. 
Two men walking up the hill, one is taken, one is left...

I guess it depends on you end times view.

Either way, He is Sovereign and wins in the end.


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## packrat (Aug 25, 2010)

*Islam*

Who knows exactly what the future holds other than the Lord?
No one.

Should we continue to keep the faith and live for God?
Yes

Should we worry ourselves with this false "teaching"?
No, but we should do our part to spread the good news.

The battle will be waged, a victory has "already" been claimed. The victory is ours, through the mercy of God who gave it to us through his precious son Jesus. To believe otherwise amounts to watching a "re-run" of a football game and thinking the score will change the second time. When we see these things come to pass we must continue to fight the good fight while rejoicing in our hearts that "HIS KINGDOM" is at hand.

Feel free to shout if you wish, I just did!


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## Diogenes (Aug 27, 2010)

I’m not sure that God didn’t also create these Islamic folks that seem to strike such terror into so many.  Seems like they equally recoil in horror at the thought of living on a planet run entirely by you folks . . . 

Perhaps my resistance to all religions is rooted in that thought.  It seems ludicrous to conceive that you can bargain your way into an ‘eternal reward’ of any kind, as though  applying for an eternal, interest-free loan.  If you adhere to the right book, believe in the right deity, and observe the right rituals you can put all of this up as collateral to get into the heaven of your choice.  And as for everyone else – well . . . you warned them, right?

Poppycock.  Rather a prim, narrow-minded and homogenous place this heaven must turn out to be, populated entirely by carbon copies of yourselves.  What will you do for all eternity then?  Continue to hunt the ghosts of all those you killed or condemned, all the while agreeing with each other?  

Or worse, could some of the rest of us end up in heaven by accident?  Forced to spend eternity in a club the likes of which we never wished to join?  Maybe that ends up being the point – that heaven and Hades are the same place, distinguished only by whether you wanted to be there or not.

Wouldn’t it be a hoot if this heaven turns out to be real, and after living an exemplary and perfect life (as many of you certainly are), you arrive just in time for God to hand you 72 virgins?  Boy would there be egg on your face . . . Huh?

Or is there one heaven for you, and another for them?  If belief is the sole criteria, then I’d figure you fellas are running neck-and-neck, since their zealousness at least equals your own.  And if you maintain that there is only One God, and only One heaven, are you completely sure that God isn’t a bit queasy about the prospect of having YOUR side take over His world?  Seems to me that, in terms of enforcing ancient doctrines and strictures as literally and as brutally as the God of your OT did, they are doing a much better job of it than you guys are. 

Just saying – from the perspective of the God of the OT, these guys are serious, and y’all are watered-down rationalizers.  From your NT perspective – well, you just keep on changing the rules for your own on-going convenience, and that can hardly sit well if this God is actually the thundering and jealous fella you often propose from your co-opted OT sources.

Wouldn’t it be a bit more accurate, really, to express your fears in rather more temporal terms, and leave all of the proposed ‘Gods’ out of it?  If you fear that your hard-won freedoms and well-earned lifestyle might be threatened by outsiders, then just say so.  It is a perfectly defensible position, and has nothing at all to do with any supernatural belief.


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## MudDucker (Aug 27, 2010)

packrat said:


> who knows exactly what the future holds other than the lord?
> no one.
> 
> should we continue to keep the faith and live for god?
> ...



amen!


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## packrat (Aug 27, 2010)

*I'll bite*

Although I pretty much know the basis of your post, I'll bite in hope that it may help you as well as others. You are of the mindset that you don't need any help from imaginary characters, but, you're wrong.



Diogenes said:


> I’m not sure that God didn’t also create these Islamic folks that seem to strike such terror into so many.  Seems like they equally recoil in horror at the thought of living on a planet run entirely by you folks
> 
> Correct, God did make them & sin is keeping them from enjoying the blessings that God has laid aside from them.
> God sent his Son so that NO MAN shall perish, but ALL can have eternal life. And I fear them no more than rush hour traffic.
> ...



Well, my posting time is up. There is ONE TRUE AND LIVING GOD. I hope someone or anyone may get a blessing from knowing that there is a way and it is through the blood of JESUS.


John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.​


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## Thor827 (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't think he'll allow it, but that doesn't mean they won't try......


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## crackerdave (Aug 27, 2010)

Thor827 said:


> I don't think he'll allow it, but that doesn't mean they won't try......



They are definitely trying,and if we continue in our complacency,they just _might_ succeed - for a time.
You don't have to look far to see countries where Christians are executed for being Christians _right now._ It would be foolish to think it could never happen here.


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## apoint (Aug 27, 2010)

islam is a pawn that satan uses. Satan respects no religon, but only uses the misguided false religions to do his work.  I believe Russia, china, and the islamic nations will have an unholy trinity in the end to do the antichrist job for him, but in the end when he rules the world he will respect no religon but him alone. We already see this unholy trinity coming together in the nightly news. Gods rain falls on everyone, the good and the bad.
 Good news is a believer knows the prince of peace will be along shortly. God protect us. Amen


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## ted_BSR (Aug 28, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> I’m not sure that God didn’t also create these Islamic folks that seem to strike such terror into so many.  Seems like they equally recoil in horror at the thought of living on a planet run entirely by you folks . . .
> 
> Perhaps my resistance to all religions is rooted in that thought.  It seems ludicrous to conceive that you can bargain your way into an ‘eternal reward’ of any kind, as though  applying for an eternal, interest-free loan.  If you adhere to the right book, believe in the right deity, and observe the right rituals you can put all of this up as collateral to get into the heaven of your choice.  And as for everyone else – well . . . you warned them, right?
> 
> ...



They are already defeated.  No terror.  None.


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## jason4445 (Aug 28, 2010)

Well since Christians and Muslims worship the same God and if both sides are praying to this same God for one or the other to win - I figure God will probably stay out of the situation.  Both religions are his children.  Satan uses Islam as a tool - Fundamentalist poppy cock.  Anything they can't really figure out or understand or contradicts what they wish were true - here comes Satan, or well its going to change but we don't know where or when.

I don't know but if I were an uninterested by stander looking back in history I would say Muslims under Saladin pretty much  whooped  the Christians - and if I look at things now on the Holiest Spot in Jerusalem God has let the Muslims put a big ole Mosque there, so off hand I might think if one side or the other were winning, Islam would be champ.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 28, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> *Well since Christians and Muslims worship the same God* .


 
Who told you this non-sense??


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## Ta-ton-ka chips (Aug 28, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> .....
> 
> I don't know but if I were an uninterested by stander looking back in history I would say Muslims under Saladin pretty much  whooped  the Christians - and if I look at things now on the Holiest Spot in Jerusalem God has let the Muslims put a big ole Mosque there, so off hand I might think if one side or the other were winning, Islam would be champ.




So we should all diet and start working out so we can be champs? 


.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 28, 2010)

*Do you really think God is going to allow Islam to take over His world?*

God has allow some devastating things to happen to His nation and children in the past.  The desert............ Babylonians.


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## farmasis (Aug 28, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> So - when the final day comes,and God finally gets fed up with our foolishness and sends His Son to get the believers,_Islam_ will be the reigning power in this world? May be. I don't know,either - that's why I asked.


 

Are you starting to pity yourself?


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## tomtlb66 (Aug 28, 2010)

I do not know the answer to the question. I believe in this time we live in, your either right with God or not. Will we suffer for Christ? yes we will. Will we be here when all the stuff hits the fan, no we won't. Our main focus to to worship our Lord and Savior, spread the good news, fight the good fight, and do our very best to let The Holy Spirit guide us in every direction of our lives. Thats my take on things. I don't have a clue to all of it, I just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and pray to Him on a regular basis for strength and guidance. My thoughts are not His thoughts, I am trying to have my thoughts on Him all the time.


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## ted_BSR (Aug 28, 2010)

miguel cervantes said:


> who told you this non-sense??



x2!


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## crackerdave (Aug 28, 2010)

farmasis said:


> Are you starting to pity yourself?



Why do you ask that?


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## farmasis (Aug 28, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Why do you ask that?


 
seems you had a change of heart between post #1 and #15...just asking.


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## jason4445 (Aug 28, 2010)

You go to any fully accredited Seminary or Theological School, not one of those fundamentalist ones or three months and you are a man of the cloth ones,  and besides how to raise money one of the first courses you take is the History of God.  In that course you find out, using secular and Biblical references that the God we worship, the God of Abraham, is the God of three religions, Jews, Christians and Islamic.

Go to any Jew and ask them and they will agree, go to any mainstream Islamic Mosque and you will find no argument there, and go to any mainstream Christian Church and it is the truth.

Now go to a fundamentalist Mosque and tell them they worship the same God as Jews or Christians and they will want to know what filthy flea off a camel's back told you that - go to any fundamentalist Christian Church and referring to the above posts you will get a similar response. 

If nothing else it will show you that the fundamentalist of both the Christian and Islamic faith have a lot in common.


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## apoint (Aug 29, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> You go to any fully accredited Seminary or Theological School, not one of those fundamentalist ones or three months and you are a man of the cloth ones,  and besides how to raise money one of the first courses you take is the History of God.  In that course you find out, using secular and Biblical references that the God we worship, the God of Abraham, is the God of three religions, Jews, Christians and Islamic.
> 
> Go to any Jew and ask them and they will agree, go to any mainstream Islamic Mosque and you will find no argument there, and go to any mainstream Christian Church and it is the truth.
> 
> ...



Geeeesh. I'm glad I dont go to the schools your talking about. They ought to be closed down for false teaching.
 I just went thru this last week. Short version, their not the same God. Not even vaguely close, not to mention islam is a fairy tail of mixed notions.


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## jason4445 (Aug 29, 2010)

Can we find some fairy tales in Fundamental Christian belief's?

 It is commonly believed that all saved go directly to heaven yet the Bible tells us they don't.

Jesus is suppose to come for the second time that is unknown yet Jesus said out his mouth that he would reappear within a generation.

Jesus main theme of teaching was to love and accept, yet if by nothing than the posts in here fundamentalist constantly spew hate and vengeance.  Sometimes I think they belong to the Church of I hate everything.

Fundamentalist believe God is in control, everything comes from God and God and since they are saved God and Jesus will protect them with their love, yet they fill their houses and cars with guns to protect themselves from the burglar that under their belief God sends to their house of person to rob them.

SThey believe that God loves them but believe that God won't put more troubles on them than they can bear - I still have not figured that fairy tale out that if God loves them then why do they think God will cause them trouble.

And the whole Rapture myth comes right out of  a human being named Darby, yet they tink it is God's plan.

In Luke the Bible says for Christians to hate their brothers, yet in  John it says Whoever hates their brother cannot have eternal life and that is if saved or not.

In John it is said that Man judged and saved by faith but in Psalm 62:12, Proverbs 24:12, Matt 7:21 it says that Man judged and saved by works and lifestyle 

In Luke it is said that Believers not to worry about providing for family however in  Timothy 5:8 it says believers must provide for family.

in John 3:35 it says that God has given all things into Jesus' hands, but in Matt 20:23 and John  5:19 it is said that God has not given all things into Jesus' hands.

And I won't even get into Noah and other Old Testament tales and contradictions.

Fundamentalist ought to start cleaning their windows about fairy tales before worrying about the ones in Islam.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Aug 29, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> You go to any fully accredited Seminary or Theological School, not one of those fundamentalist ones or three months and you are a man of the cloth ones, and besides how to raise money one of the first courses you take is the History of God. In that course you find out, using secular and Biblical references that the God we worship, the God of Abraham, is the God of three religions, Jews, Christians and Islamic.
> 
> Go to any Jew and ask them and they will agree, go to any mainstream Islamic Mosque and you will find no argument there, and go to any mainstream Christian Church and it is the truth.
> 
> ...


 
So where did you earn your divinity? What theological institution of advanced learning taught you all of this wisdom?


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## WTM45 (Aug 29, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> If nothing else it will show you that the fundamentalist of both the Christian and Islamic faith have a lot in common.



The biggest commonality...
EXCLUSIVISM.


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## packrat (Aug 29, 2010)

*?????*



jason4445 said:


> Can we find some fairy tales in Fundamental Christian belief's?
> 
> 
> Fundamentalist believe God is in control, everything comes from God and God and since they are saved God and Jesus will protect them with their love, yet they fill their houses and cars with guns to protect themselves from the burglar that under their belief God sends to their house of person to rob them.
> ...



Allow me to say this "with love"
There is a fine line between faith and foolishness.
I think you have a hard time distinguishing one from the other.
God gives us "common sense" to help us separate the two.
I've come to find lately, "common sense" is far from common.
Your posts in several of the forums has helped bring me to this conclusion.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 29, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Can we find some fairy tales in Fundamental Christian belief's?
> 
> It is commonly believed that all saved go directly to heaven yet the Bible tells us they don't.
> 
> ...



I see that you are a studier of the Holy Scriptures.
It will help if you'll pray for guidance before your next study period.


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## jason4445 (Aug 29, 2010)

You know when you bring up contradictions that rip holes in the thin fabric of the Fundamentalist belief system of a mish mash of scriptures, vague interpretations,  and the statement "well it says that but it really means this" you are met with three basic responses. It is another ironic thing that the responses you receive from Fundamentalist of both Christian and Islamic believers are always so similar.  

From those that feel to be right is far more important than to actually practice the theme of peace and love you find in both religions you get -"You are wrong and definitely not a true Christian/Islamic and since I want all my friends to be true believers, which by the way is the exact way I believe, I wish that you would go away - you are no friend of mine.

The next response is the immature one from the person who won't totally reject your presence, but instead when you state your arguments they just stick their heads in the sand and reply - "You are stupid and any arguments  are idiotic so there - sticking tongue out."

The third general response is what I call the soft fur glove slap in the face. These are the ones who at least outwardly wish to act in the spirit of peace and love you find in Christianity/Islam so they put on the act of "Well you are wrong and I am right which makes me better than you since I am going to heaven and you are obviously not, but since I am a true believer I am still going to love you although I am still better than you.  So I will pray (the slap in the face) that one day you will see my specific belief system is the only true way to heaven and through your studies God will (another slap) show you the correct path.


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## apoint (Aug 29, 2010)

The One and only true God has only one way and its his way alone.
 He is a jealous God that shares not his glory because he created all things in the universe. Its his mercy alone that saves us under his grace and love.
 As I have said earlier, Islam is a fairytail dreamed up 500 years after christ.


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## earl (Aug 29, 2010)

''As I have said earlier, Islam is a fairytail dreamed up 500 years after christ.''



How odd. Thats almost the same thing the  Jews say about Jesus Christ. And they have more than 2010 years of history to back them up. A lot more.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 30, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> You know when you bring up contradictions that rip holes in the thin fabric of the Fundamentalist belief system of a mish mash of scriptures, vague interpretations,  and the statement "well it says that but it really means this" you are met with three basic responses. It is another ironic thing that the responses you receive from Fundamentalist of both Christian and Islamic believers are always so similar.
> 
> From those that feel to be right is far more important than to actually practice the theme of peace and love you find in both religions you get -"You are wrong and definitely not a true Christian/Islamic and since I want all my friends to be true believers, which by the way is the exact way I believe, I wish that you would go away - you are no friend of mine.
> 
> ...



But where does the Bible say Christ was suppose to have already returned??????????????

Where where where.  
You're the one who made the statement.


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## crackerdave (Aug 30, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> You know when you bring up contradictions that rip holes in the thin fabric of the Fundamentalist belief system of a mish mash of scriptures, vague interpretations,  and the statement "well it says that but it really means this" you are met with three basic responses. It is another ironic thing that the responses you receive from Fundamentalist of both Christian and Islamic believers are always so similar.
> 
> From those that feel to be right is far more important than to actually practice the theme of peace and love you find in both religions you get -"You are wrong and definitely not a true Christian/Islamic and since I want all my friends to be true believers, which by the way is the exact way I believe, I wish that you would go away - you are no friend of mine.
> 
> ...



Since when is Islam a religion of peace and love? Do you think the men who flew those planes into the WTC were peaceful and loving?


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## crackerdave (Aug 30, 2010)

farmasis said:


> seems you had a change of heart between post #1 and #15...just asking.



In post 15, I was referring to all the folks who seem to think the Muslims are out to take over the world.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 30, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> You know when you bring up contradictions that rip holes in the thin fabric of the Fundamentalist belief system of a mish mash of scriptures, vague interpretations,  and the statement "well it says that but it really means this" you are met with three basic responses. It is another ironic thing that the responses you receive from Fundamentalist of both Christian and Islamic believers are always so similar.
> 
> From those that feel to be right is far more important than to actually practice the theme of peace and love you find in both religions you get -"You are wrong and definitely not a true Christian/Islamic and since I want all my friends to be true believers, which by the way is the exact way I believe, I wish that you would go away - you are no friend of mine.
> 
> ...



You pretend to be one thing when you are actually quite the opposite.
The information contained in your first post is garbage and I suspect you know it............................
well, maybe you don't.


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## Diogenes (Aug 31, 2010)

Ronnie asked Jason: “But where does the Bible say Christ was suppose to have already returned??????????????

Where where where.”

Um, right here –

Matthew 16:28 
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 
Matthew 24:34 
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

That is pretty unambiguous.  Unless, of course, Matthew got it wrong, and Jesus didn’t actually say what it says that he said.  

I, for one, will allow of that possibility . . .


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## jason4445 (Aug 31, 2010)

But where does the Bible say Christ was suppose to have already returned??????????????

Matthew 16:28, in which he says "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Another example is found at Luke 21:32, where he says "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." He makes similar statements in Luke 9:27 and Mark 9:1.  Paul says the same thing when asked when Jesus will return but I'll let you look those up.

DO I think the men who flew the planes were full of peace and love?

No, neither were those Christians who belonged to the KKK, and seems like some Christians in here are not filled with to much peace and love either. I always said of the extremest I will take a liberal over a conservative any day.  A liberal may tie himself to a tree to save a owl, but the conservative will kill a abortion doctor cause God told him to do it.

You pretend to be one thing when you are actually quite the opposite.
The information contained in your first post is garbage and I suspect you know it............................
well, maybe you don't. 

Typical Christian fundamentalist response type #2.


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## Ronnie T (Aug 31, 2010)

Matthew 16:28 
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 
Jesus came into His kingdom as soon as He rose from the dead and His gospel was preached and responded to in Acts 2.
Jesus' kingdom is already here.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
According to the difinition of the original text this word generation is not speaking of the generation of an individual, but of a nation.  Most likely the Jews.  Could refer to the church I guess.


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## Diogenes (Sep 1, 2010)

I guess it gets easier if you get to redefine the words themselves to mean only what you wish them to mean, but the word is pretty unambiguous, unfortunately.

“Generation, n. :1. the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time.  2. the term of years, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.”

In general usage, both ancient and modern, nations are not said to have been ‘generated.’  Often they are referred to, rhetorically, as having been ‘Born,’ as in the ‘Birth of a Nation,’ or of having been ‘created,’ as in the ‘Creation of Israel,’  but references to a usage such as the ‘generation of a nation’ are lacking, mainly because such a phrase would be awkwardly meaningless.

And as for the first bit – “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. “  Well, good luck with the zealots if your take on it is that the Second Coming already happened upon the mythical ‘resurrection.’  Do you really mean to tell THEM that they are actually awaiting the Third Coming with such vehement and zealous anticipation?  Yikes!

This ought to get good . . .


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## hayseed_theology (Sep 1, 2010)

I think Ronnie T is dead on with Matt. 16:28. 




Diogenes said:


> I guess it gets easier if you get to redefine the words themselves to mean only what you wish them to mean, but the word is pretty unambiguous, unfortunately.



I'm not really satisfied with the redefinition of "generation" either.  The most common interpretation I've seen is that "generation" means "age," and Christ is talking about the "church age."  Not too sure about that. I suppose it could be, but for all the reasons you mentioned (and others within the text), I find that unlikely.  There seems to be a lot of hermeneutical gymnastics that goes on with Matt. 24.  I don't really have a good answer though.  I still struggle with that one.


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## Inatree (Sep 1, 2010)

It seems to me that sharia law would be the perfect vehicle to bring about the persecution of Christians described in Revelations.


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## FritzMichaels (Sep 2, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> If you do,I pity you.



well pity me pity me...

what makes you think that God aint using mohammmmads
flock for full take over the world?   I think that could be possible...


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## jason4445 (Sep 2, 2010)

This "generation" thing is just what I was talking about. When the fundamentalist's  book says something that contradicts their belief's then the inerrant word of God all the sudden becomes open to interpretation, metaphorical, and symbolic and finally if those don't really work, then they issue the statement - well it does say that, but it really means this and they start arguing definitions.


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## earl (Sep 2, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> This "generation" thing is just what I was talking about. When the fundamentalist's  book says something that contradicts their belief's then the inerrant word of God all the sudden becomes open to interpretation, metaphorical, and symbolic and finally if those don't really work, then they issue the statement - well it does say that, but it really means this and they start arguing definitions.[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## crackerdave (Sep 2, 2010)

Guilty as charged, yer honor. I admit - I've done that before,in times past. 

I like to think I'm a little wiser now.


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## crackerdave (Sep 2, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> well pity me pity me...
> 
> what makes you think that God aint using mohammmmads
> flock for full take over the world?   I think that could be possible...



For how long, do ya think? This "full takeover," I mean.


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## farmasis (Sep 2, 2010)

<SUP id=en-NKJV-23697 class=versenum>*28*</SUP> Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Matt. 16)

Ok..who was there?

The disciples..see verse 24.

Now..where was Jesus's kingdom? Was it on earth?

*<SUP>36</SUP>* Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” 
(John 18)

The key word to me is NOW!!! That will preach!

 <SUP id=en-NASB-24888 class=versenum>*14*</SUP>Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table.... <SUP id=en-NASB-24893 class=versenum>*19*</SUP>So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. (Mark 16)

Just as predicted...and guess what...one of them did taste death before he entered his kingdom.


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## Inatree (Sep 3, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> I guess it gets easier if you get to redefine the words themselves to mean only what you wish them to mean, but the word is pretty unambiguous, unfortunately.
> 
> “Generation, n. :1. the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time.  2. the term of years, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.”
> 
> ...



Thank you for that 2010 modern English definition of a 400 hundred year old English word.

In old-through-early modern English the word generation means "race". as in the "Jewish people" and has absolutely nothing to do with any span of time.

As for the last part of your post, Famasis addressed it above


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## Tugboat1 (Sep 3, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> If you do,I pity you.



Me thinks not God but politicians that should be feared. Just ask a European. And we ain't that far behind.


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## Diogenes (Sep 3, 2010)

Inatree states: â€œThank you for that 2010 modern English definition of a 400 hundred year old English word.â€�

Um?  Perhaps the few words learned along the way did not include the word â€˜etymologyâ€™ â€“ but just the same, allow me to offer the following â€“

Generation â€“ an Anglicization derived from the Old English, generacioun, the French, génération, and the Latin. generatio.  From â€˜Generate,â€™ as a derivative, from the Latin â€˜generatus,â€™ perfect passive participle of â€˜generoâ€™ (â€œbeget, procreate, produceâ€�). 

So the word is only 400 years old?  How in the heck did those clever folks who wrote that Bible manage to include a word that is only 400 years old?  In your opinion?

Iâ€™m guessing that education is also a priority where you grew up, and that the public paid to send you to school.  Iâ€™m guessing that you also have a public library nearby, which the taxpayers also provide for free.  What is the problem with this idea of learning things?


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## Inatree (Sep 3, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> Inatree states: “Thank you for that 2010 modern English definition of a 400 hundred year old English word.”
> 
> Um?  Perhaps the few words learned along the way did not include the word ‘etymology’ – but just the same, allow me to offer the following –
> 
> ...




400 years is not the age of the word it is the age of the word that we are discussing and the date that it was penned.
The King James Bible was written 400 years ago, that's when they chose to use the word "generation"in it. If you want to know what the word "generation" meant in the year 1610 and knowing that English has been an ever evolving language then it is best not to reach for the dictionary that your mom gave you.
This is easily researchable 

It's interesting that you brought up the etymology of the word "generation". I dont guess you took the time to look up the meaning of the words.

The word "generation" in the years that the King James Bible was translated meant "race" or "breed" or "lineage" and in no way meant what you posted.

For someone criticizing my level of education you are displaying a lot of ignorance.


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## farmasis (Sep 3, 2010)

Inatree...I wish you would stop posting...your avatar makes me hungry!


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## Diogenes (Sep 5, 2010)

“400 years is not the age of the word it is the age of the word that we are discussing and the date that it was penned.”

I see.  

“The King James Bible was written 400 years ago,”

Thank you.

“The word "generation" in the years that the King James Bible was translated meant "race" or "breed" or "lineage" and in no way meant what you posted.”

Really?  Please substantiate the above contentions, if you would be so kind?  I would be quite interested to be enlightened by an interpretive etymology that refutes the actual, and presents each word selected as having been wholly invented in meaning upon the writing of the King James approved language, some 400 years ago.  I never realized that King James actually had the power to not only write the Bible in his own name but also had the ability to redefine the entire language.  Your sources for this bit of revelation would be of major academic interest to many of us, and I beg you to please be exhaustive in your citing of references.    

I’m especially interested in the age of the Bible – 400 years, you say?  And the contention that the words, then, meant different things than they mean currently.  Does this mean that ALL of the words had different meanings back then?  Or only a few?  Or most?  Or only some?  And which ones?  

This is important to any meaningful reading, if the words didn’t mean what they apparently say, and if you possess this information, it would be unfair to the cause of scholarship and proper interpretations not to share such insights and secrets with the rest of us.

“For someone criticizing my level of education you are displaying a lot of ignorance.”  

Sir, I am merely asking – If I am completely wrong, then please provide your corrections – in the form required by the minimum standards of academic rigor.  I provided the known etymology, academically accepted, of the word that was at issue.  If it is your own contention that the academic community is completely wrong, then please feel free to refute them according to the same standards.  I did not simply invent the etymology, as you appear to have done, but merely related same.  If you hold superior knowledge, then please, by all means, lay it out for us . . .


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## crackerdave (Sep 5, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> “400 years is not the age of the word it is the age of the word that we are discussing and the date that it was penned.”
> 
> I see.
> 
> ...



Hey,bubba - them standards don't apply around these parts!

Why don't you take your academic standards and go play somewhere else? Perhaps you haven't noticed,but this is no longer a "debate" playground. Your superior attitude and arrogance make me wanna puke......sir.


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## jason4445 (Sep 5, 2010)

Proverbs 19

“If you are sensible, you will control your temper. When someone wrongs you, it is a great virtue to ignore it.” “The king’s anger is like the roar of a lion, but his favor is like welcome rain.”


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## crackerdave (Sep 5, 2010)

jason4445 said:


> Proverbs 19
> 
> “If you are sensible, you will control your temper. When someone wrongs you, it is a great virtue to ignore it.” “The king’s anger is like the roar of a lion, but his favor is like welcome rain.”



Which verses are those in Proverbs 19?

If you mean that for me,I can assure you: My temper is under control.If someone wrongs _me_ - no big deal. If someone wrongs God - very big deal.


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## CAL (Sep 5, 2010)

I don't argue the scriptures with anyone whatsoever.I know without a doubt there is a Great Spirit who controls all things.Should I be wrong in my belief and there is no God or Great Spirit,I have lost nothing whatsoever.If you doubters and unbelievers are wrong,you will have all eternity to celebrate being wrong.Think about it,nobody even knows or has a clue how long eternity is! I am told it is forever!


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## crackerdave (Sep 5, 2010)

I'm not much for arguing Scriptures,either,Cal. Or about which version of the Bible to use.Or this or that - a hundred petty things are sweated here,over and over,but the only important question is: "Does God exist? Can you _prove it?_" 

Some things - especially faith - can't be "proven" in the sense of "here it is - right here in my hand." It gets kinda frustrating to me,and makes me act in an un-Christlike way sometimes.

There's an awful lot of arguing that goes on here about whether or not God exists,though.


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## earl (Sep 5, 2010)

''There's an awful lot of arguing that goes on here about whether or not God exists,though.''

IMHO  there is more arguing about who's version of their God is correct or more holy . 
Out of all the folks who post here ,I don't know of but two or three who claim to be atheists .


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## CAL (Sep 5, 2010)

Dave,I don't have to prove it!Gods word says I only have to have the Faith of a mustard seed and I have way more than that.I can tell all that I have seen 2 happenings that without a doubt only God or the Holy Spirit could have accomplished no man living could have done this as it was out of any man's hand's.

I already had the Faith before hand,the 2 happenings just reinforced it more.God is very real in my life!


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## Spotlite (Sep 5, 2010)

CAL said:


> I don't argue the scriptures with anyone whatsoever.I know without a doubt there is a Great Spirit who controls all things.Should I be wrong in my belief and there is no God or Great Spirit,I have lost nothing whatsoever.If you doubters and unbelievers are wrong,you will have all eternity to celebrate being wrong.Think about it,nobody even knows or has a clue how long eternity is! I am told it is forever!


 


CAL said:


> Dave,I don't have to prove it!Gods word says I only have to have the Faith of a mustard seed and I have way more than that.I can tell all that I have seen 2 happenings that without a doubt only God or the Holy Spirit could have accomplished no man living could have done this as it was out of any man's hand's.
> 
> I already had the Faith before hand,the 2 happenings just reinforced it more.God is very real in my life!


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## one_shot_no_mor (Sep 5, 2010)

*I'll weigh in on this one...*

God blessed Isaac just as He did Ishmael...

"GOD has ALWAYS been GOD. GOD is God. Allah is Allah. The God of Abraham (and his son Isaac) was the Allah of Ishmael...Isaac and Ishmael were brothers. Ishmael was the father of the twelve tribes of Islam (Genesis 25:13) just as Isaac was the (Grand) father of the twelve tribes of Israel. Genesis tells of Ishmael's blessing, exile, and "curse" and sheds light on why the nation of Islam is (and always WILL be) a violent people...(Genesis 16:11-12) So...the God of Abraham IS the God of Ishmael (Islam) IMHO...
I'm no theologian. This is only my personal opinion. I don't care to debate it... "

See this thread...

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=299449&highlight=ishmael

The difference between Abraham's two sons is that God also CURSED Ishmael.  

Islam's crusade to rid the world of infidels is no different than the Christian's crusade to "go and make disciples of all the nations"...what we call "the Great Commission".  BOTH of these opposing theological ideals come from God and SOMEHOW play a role in His great purpose.  We'll understand what that role is when He allows us to...


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## earl (Sep 5, 2010)

There were 5 count em, 5 banned Christians on that thread .  Just saying ...


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## Lowjack (Sep 5, 2010)

This will be the end Of Islam:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UPKURouMExg?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UPKURouMExg?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## ted_BSR (Sep 6, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Hey,bubba - them standards don't apply around these parts!
> 
> Why don't you take your academic standards and go play somewhere else? Perhaps you haven't noticed,but this is no longer a "debate" playground. Your superior attitude and arrogance make me wanna puke......sir.



ROFL 
CD- you rock!!!


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## gtparts (Sep 6, 2010)

The Bible tells me of a new heaven and a new earth. I have no problem with God reducing the present world to less than a cinder. I believe the rise of Islam brings that prophesy closer to fulfillment with every single breath. Those who have humbly given themselves wholly to Christ in worship and praise have no cause for fear. 

Since it can only hasten the return of the King of Kings, my interest is two-fold: 

Spreading the Gospel and being prepared.


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## WTM45 (Sep 6, 2010)

CAL said:


> I don't argue the scriptures with anyone whatsoever.I know without a doubt there is a Great Spirit who controls all things.Should I be wrong in my belief and there is no God or Great Spirit,I have lost nothing whatsoever.If you doubters and unbelievers are wrong,you will have all eternity to celebrate being wrong.Think about it,nobody even knows or has a clue how long eternity is! I am told it is forever!



Pascal's Wager... again.


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## gtparts (Sep 6, 2010)

WTM45 said:


> Pascal's Wager... again.


Truly wish you would stop beating your head against a brick wall. First of all, it merely illustrates the individual outcomes of two decisions, one made by a Christian and the other by an atheist. Of course, the flaw is that logically there may be other positions besides the two offered, but interestingly enough, I have never grasped why an atheist is more comfortable with his or her possible outcomes than any theist.

Atheist possibilities are:

1) if they are correct,..... absolutely nothing

2) if they are wrong, the best that they can hope for is some kind of reincarnation (a "do over") or perhaps a god of the "free pass"

3) if they are wrong, the worst they can expect is eternal punishment

4) if they are wrong, they could wind up with something between  possibilities 2) & 3)



The Christian faces  a different set of possible outcomes.

1) if they are correct, they spend eternity in heaven

2)  if they are wrong, the best that they can hope for is some kind of reincarnation (a "do over") or perhaps a god of the "free pass"

3)  if they are wrong, the worst they can expect is eternal punishment

4) if they are wrong, they could wind up with something between  possibilities 2) & 3)

Note that 2), 3), and 4) are the same for both, so the only position that really matters is 1).

The question then becomes this.

Why would anyone consciously choose nothing over heaven?  Being so completely committed to atheism offers nothing in the long term,...... zero, zip, nada, goose egg ! 

How is that preferable to heaven?

 Even if Christianity was one chance in a million million, wouldn't it be worth stepping out in faith than clinging to the possibility of there being nothing? (Yeah, I know this crosses the line from possibility to probability, but we have no way of really determining probability.)

For me, viewing from an atheistic perspective, even possibility 2) has a better outcome than 1).

Comparing the two 1) possibilities should be a no-brainer.

The second point is that virtually smacking your head creates no problems, but it sure doesn't resolve anything either. I'm almost certain that it will leave a virtual mark though.


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## Lowjack (Sep 6, 2010)

crackerdave said:


> Hey,bubba - them standards don't apply around these parts!
> 
> Why don't you take your academic standards and go play somewhere else? Perhaps you haven't noticed,but this is no longer a "debate" playground. Your superior attitude and arrogance make me wanna puke......sir.



LOL 

By the way, Hebrew Biblical Generatios means 10 Years,40 Years and 70 Years.
And that's by the Hebrew Biblical Academic standards, LOL


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## WTM45 (Sep 7, 2010)

gtparts said:


> Truly wish you would stop beating your head against a brick wall. First of all, it merely illustrates the individual outcomes of two decisions, one made by a Christian and the other by an atheist. Of course, the flaw is that logically there may be other positions besides the two offered, but interestingly enough, I have never grasped why an atheist is more comfortable with his or her possible outcomes than any theist.
> 
> Atheist possibilities are:
> 
> ...



All of that to say mankind has an uncontrollable desire to live or exist forever.
Like gods.

Hmmmmm......

Let's use "faith" as a concept to believe in an imagined outcome that is appealing.
Then, let's condemn those who will not follow our concept to an outcome that is as un-appealing as we can imagine.

So, simply believe in this concept in order to receive the favorable outcome.  Is it really true belief?
Pascal dug much deeper into the concept.  
The constant use of the ideal of belief in order to gain something favorable by believers is the frustration.

Sorry for the derail Dave.


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## crackerdave (Sep 7, 2010)

WTM45 said:


> All of that to say mankind has an uncontrollable desire to live or exist forever.
> Like gods.
> 
> Hmmmmm......
> ...



No apology needed,neighbor. I kin "derail" with th' best of 'em!

I'm sho glad this ol' world's not all there is.


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## crackerdave (Sep 7, 2010)

earl said:


> ''There's an awful lot of arguing that goes on here about whether or not God exists,though.''
> 
> IMHO  there is more arguing about who's version of their God is correct or more holy .
> Out of all the folks who post here ,I don't know of but two or three who claim to be atheists .



Those two or three are very.........um...... "prolific" posters.Maybe even a little long-winded.


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## Diogenes (Sep 7, 2010)

“Hey,bubba - them standards don't apply around these parts! 

Why don't you take your academic standards and go play somewhere else? Perhaps you haven't noticed,but this is no longer a "debate" playground. Your superior attitude and arrogance make me wanna puke......sir.”

Yes . . . I’m beginning to understand . . . even the more relaxed academic standards of, say, elementary school don’t seem to have taken hold ‘around these parts’ . . . and many of the social standards seem to be lacking as well  . . . even at the ‘No Child Left Behind’ level  . . . 

Thoughtful, informative commentary, as usual there . . . I stand properly chastened  . . .


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## crackerdave (Sep 8, 2010)

Diogenes said:


> “Hey,bubba - them standards don't apply around these parts!
> 
> Why don't you take your academic standards and go play somewhere else? Perhaps you haven't noticed,but this is no longer a "debate" playground. Your superior attitude and arrogance make me wanna puke......sir.”
> 
> ...



Yeah - we're so far beneath you and your "standards" that I have no idea why you honor us with your Presence.


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## Diogenes (Sep 10, 2010)

Same reason you do, Cracker  . . . 

Oh.  Darn.  Sorry.  I forgot.  You have me on ‘Ignore’ . . .


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## crackerdave (Sep 11, 2010)

No,I think we work for different "bosses."

It's useless to put anyone on ignore.When they are quoted,ya gotta read it anyway. I've learned to just skim over your drivel.


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## apoint (Sep 11, 2010)

Back to the orig post brothers and nonbrothers what ever side you may take..

 Satan will use every false religion[ islam] and athiest to do his work to his end of taking over the world. Before total destruction Jesus will return with His saints to end the destruction and do away with the evil doers. this will start the 1000 years of peace with the king Jesus as ruler over all. 7 year trib is almost here.


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## earl (Sep 11, 2010)

apoint said:


> Back to the orig post brothers and nonbrothers what ever side you may take..
> 
> Satan will use every false religion[ islam] and athiest to do his work to his end of taking over the world. Before total destruction Jesus will return with His saints to end the destruction and do away with the evil doers. this will start the 1000 years of peace with the king Jesus as ruler over all. 7 year trib is almost here.





It will be interesting to see how many Christian denominations will be shown too be false religion.


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## apoint (Sep 11, 2010)

earl said:


> It will be interesting to see how many Christian denominations will be shown too be false religion.



 Another reason why I dont believe in denominations!
  Earl you wont be around to see because your a nonbeliever.


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## earl (Sep 12, 2010)

apoint said:


> Another reason why I dont believe in denominations!
> Earl you wont be around to see because your a nonbeliever.




You never know where I might show up . I didn't realize that YOU got to make the decision .Should I pray to you ?


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## Inatree (Sep 12, 2010)

earl said:


> You never know where I might show up . I didn't realize that YOU got to make the decision .Should I pray to you ?


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## Diogenes (Sep 13, 2010)

“Satan will use every false religion[ islam] and athiest to do his work to his end of taking over the world. Before total destruction Jesus will return with His saints to end the destruction and do away with the evil doers. this will start the 1000 years of peace with the king Jesus as ruler over all. 7 year trib is almost here.”

Huh?  You mean the end is near?  Darn.  Not again . . . 

So let me get this right – everybody OTHER than the few of you guys are actually being used by this other invisible evil Being you dreamed up, and they have all ganged up on you poor, few, truly saintly and benevolent folks to ‘take over the world.’  But before this ‘total destruction’ of the rest of them actually taking over the world, your own ‘good’ invisible Being is going to pop in and actually save everything by destroying it?  

Are you sure about that?  And your guy is going to create ‘1,000 years of peace’ by using hostile, bigoted, single minded zealots as the tools and messengers of his desire to be the sole ruler of everyone and everything? 

This story is starting to sound disturbingly familiar . . .

Yeeks.  Learning history is such a burden sometimes . . . 

So, are you completely sure that this evil Being you thought up isn’t actually using YOU few control-minded and all-too-easily controlled folks to drive wedges between the rest of us in an attempt to destroy US?  And if you are sure, why is that?  Because you have a Book, and deeply-held feelings on the matter?

That sounds pretty familiar too . . . 

You see, when someone hands me drivel to the effect that standards of intelligence, thought, and education mean nothing ‘around these parts,’ I have to include a statement like that in my own personal definition of just what ‘evil’ means . . . 

History, for those who didn’t read it, tends to agree . . .


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