# Dual Survival



## applejuice (Nov 2, 2011)

Anybody seen this show?

I watched some last night and the guy made some arrows and made an arrow point out of a glass bottle then killed a wild turkey, pretty awesome. 


http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dual-survival-salmonberry-arrow-shaft.html
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dual-survival-fresh-turkey.html
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dual-survival-glass-arrowhead.html


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## dtala (Nov 2, 2011)

I'd change that to "killed a turkey"...........


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## woods-n-water (Nov 2, 2011)

dtala said:


> I'd change that to "killed a turkey"...........



 I bout spit drink all over my screen.....they were a long way from wild.


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## RBM (Nov 2, 2011)

What dtala said. All of these "survival" shows have been prearranged to a certain degree, the site and the choreography at least but many times the gear involved whether man-made or natural has been set up, altered, or given. Let's face it, the shows are made to be entertainment, not instructional. Their ultimate goal is to make money. Some of it is laughable. Much of it is not realistic in the real world. Trick photography is a wonderful thing. lol There are some things that are good but there are also a lot that are bad.

The best show of all them I have seen (Don't take that as an endorsement for any of them) was Les Stroud and that was the guy that said you should do this and then he does the opposite. Like the doctor that says don't smoke while he lights up. It cost him too with his health and his show. Drinking straight from a jungle stream is not good for your health. At the very least if he had nothing else, he could have used a stick to scratch out a well next to it. This is far from satisfactory treatment also. Dehydration is bad and can kill but "any" water treatment is always better than no water treatment because pathogens can permanently damage your body. The idea is to decrease your risk to pathogens as much as possible at the moment in your position with what is available. Never did know whether or not any of the stuff he did that he shouldn't have done was intentional.


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## applejuice (Nov 3, 2011)

I realize they have a camera crew with him.
I thought it was cool the way he made the arrow and point. That turkey could have been leashed for all i know, but its a cool show.

I was watching a few of the episodes on netflix , I never saw it on cable when it was on. I guess Man vs Wild took their spot.


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## wilber85 (Nov 3, 2011)

Staged or not, these guys know their stuff.  They both come from survivalist backgrounds, both teach wilderness skills for a living.  Things get a little far fetched on their show sometimes for entertainment value, but if I was lost in the woods I would choose Dave Canterbury over Bear Grills any day.


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## doenightmare (Nov 3, 2011)

I don't take the  life or death part of the shows serious but they are fun to watch. 

Les was the man -  I wish he would come back and make some new episodes. On a side note, I heard a radio interview recently where he was talking about a bigfoot encounter he had doing a show in Alaska.


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## slip (Nov 3, 2011)

I like Dual Survival, its a good show for the most part.
A lot of the stuff they do can be seen as far fetched, and in the end its just TV ... but there are some things you can learn from them also.

I liked "survivorman" and "Les Stroud Beyond Survival" was good too.

Didnt care for "Man vs Wild" at all ...


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## slightly grayling (Nov 4, 2011)

Bear Grills takes risks that I find border on irresponsible.  The average outdoorsman would be foolish to attempt some of the stunts that guy pulls.  The other shows Dual Survival and the Les Stroud series are much more realistic in application.


wilber85 said:


> Staged or not, these guys know their stuff.  They both come from survivalist backgrounds, both teach wilderness skills for a living.  Things get a little far fetched on their show sometimes for entertainment value, but if I was lost in the woods I would choose Dave Canterbury over Bear Grills any day.


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## fishfryer (Nov 4, 2011)

applejuice said:


> I realize they have a camera crew with him.
> I thought it was cool the way he made the arrow and point. That turkey could have been leashed for all i know, but its a cool show.
> 
> I was watching a few of the episodes on netflix , I never saw it on cable when it was on. I guess Man vs Wild took their spot.



I remember seeing that episode, and thinking that that bird was tied/leashed to that log. The arrow point was neat though,wasn't it? The old Arizona hippy could probably do a good job of survival in a real situation,especially in a desert locale. Bear Grylls is very strong, and seemingly knowledgeable in many situations,but the boy takes way too many chances for the camera. Bear and Steve Irwin were both foolhardy to an extent,but put them together and Steve would have had a problem with Bear eating all the cute little animals. Old Ohio Ranger is hard headed, and after making a decision will knock you out of the way to get it done. As previously stated it's all for entertainment,but some of the scenery is first rate.


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## applejuice (Nov 4, 2011)

fishfryer said:


> I remember seeing that episode, and thinking that that bird was tied/leashed to that log. The arrow point was neat though,wasn't it? The old Arizona hippy could probably do a good job of survival in a real situation,especially in a desert locale. Bear Grylls is very strong, and seemingly knowledgeable in many situations,but the boy takes way too many chances for the camera. Bear and Steve Irwin were both foolhardy to an extent,but put them together and Steve would have had a problem with Bear eating all the cute little animals. Old Ohio Ranger is hard headed, and after making a decision will knock you out of the way to get it done. As previously stated it's all for entertainment,but some of the scenery is first rate.




My girlfriend kept asking why he didnt have shoes on,

He is a strange dude, but someone that I would want with me in the wilderness.


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## Jerk (Nov 4, 2011)

You guys see where Bear was caught staying in a hotel every night on his "survival" adventures?


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## RBM (Nov 4, 2011)

doenightmare said:
			
		

> Les was the man - I wish he would come back and make some new episodes.



Won't happen with Les. It is a good bet that the pathogens from contaminated water have ravaged his body. I heard through a source that "supposedly" talked to him that this health  reason was why he gave it up.



			
				Jerk said:
			
		

> You guys see where Bear was caught staying in a hotel every night on his "survival" adventures?



Regardless of whether BG goes to a motel during filming and all the other things we do not know because we can only see the drama that they want to show, it is evident just watching what they do show that he is surely receiving help and materials that are not there on the scene. Rope that miraculously appears and more rope thereafter when rope has been cut up or is not retrievable. Steel traps do have an anchor chain attached but do not have a brand new rope attached to them after being there for "many" years. If it did, at the very least it would be rotted and unusable and certainly not yards upon yards of it. I mean these are simply common sense things that are shown that they obviously think the viewer does not notice or believes their phony story. Fire piston trick photography, convenient animal carcasses on every show, and so on. Regardless of the methods that BG uses, no one in the same situation will have help and materials provided for them on the spot and this does a serious disservice to the public. No wonder Ray Mears says harsh things about BG. I think my criticism of BG is a lot milder than most but that is because I know his military methodology of high risk survival which I will not discredit. But that method is something the "average" person without training should not attempt. But he has simply become an entertaining showman and endorser of products. Money is the bottom line to maintain his extravagant lifestyle.


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## Ballplayer (Nov 5, 2011)

Jerk said:


> You guys see where Bear was caught staying in a hotel every night on his "survival" adventures?



 Yep and eating candy bars,  always seems to have too much energy with all that runnung and jumping when the average man would be dragging.


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## slip (Nov 5, 2011)

Ballplayer said:


> Yep and eating candy bars,  always seems to have too much energy with all that runnung and jumping when the average man would be dragging.



I think if the average man did what he does, and we were really alone .... we'd be dead.


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## Nicodemus (Nov 5, 2011)

I would take my chances on my own.


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## RBM (Nov 5, 2011)

What Nic said.

Not too many folks talking about Ray Mears. He is one of the better ones at practical bushcraft skills. If you get a chance, take a look at his Country Tracks and Bushcraft BBC series on youtube. Not endorsing him but he does have some good sensible stuff.


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## deadgame (Nov 5, 2011)

I'd rather take chances by myself than me n bear grylls , for sure. A sharp knife n a rock, calm, beats hype n a camera crew anyday


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## jkk6028 (Nov 5, 2011)

i don't make it a point but if scanning the channels and its on i might watch it....kinda entertaining


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## chehawknapper (Nov 7, 2011)

I met Cody about 14 years ago at Rabbitstick Rendezvous in rexburg Idaho. I was one of the instructors along with Cody at this week long primitive skills gathering which also included Steve Watts, Scott Jones, David Wescott, Jim Riggs, Matt richardson and a whole lot of others who have been in this a long time. Cody is what you see, period. He doesn't wear shoes. He is incredibly good in the desert and really knows his stuff. His main gig is survival, so hunting is not that high on his list of skills. However, his ability with traps and snares in the desert environment is more than capable of giving him all the protien he needs. I would follow his lead in the desert any day.


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## deadgame (Nov 8, 2011)

I like that Mora knife around codys neck, shoot he's kinda cool all the way around


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## RBM (Nov 8, 2011)

deadgame said:
			
		

> I like that Mora knife around codys neck, shoot he's kinda cool all the way around



The Mora is the laminated one. That is why it sparks on flint. I have two of the larger laminated.

I call them the Dueling Dual Duo. An Ohio redneck and a California bush hippie. Military survival vs. primitive. I get a real kick out of both of their lunacy. Dave's bee hive in DR was "entertaining". lol Bear Grylls bee hive and polecat episode was also stupid but entertaining. Dave really pays for almost all of his food. lol Gives meaning to the words, weigh the risks and rewards. He has to take in a lot of food energy to replace what he puts into getting food energy. He is fortunate that he has not yet suffered a debilitating injury or injuries. There are "some" things that just are not worth it. I really don't want to belabor the barefoot Cody thing but it is evident by viewers of the show that it is more of a liability than a benefit given the changing terrains and climates. But doing those stupid things that are high risk is entertainment. I don't know if its a lesson on what not to do or just a case of bad examples. Take your pick. I just hope no one follows any of the bad examples in some situations of these shows that could result in injury or worse. Some things on these shows should be taken as entertainment rather than "expert" examples. Its a case of knowing the difference between the two.

If I had to follow anyone out in the woods, it would be the McPhersons. They have been doing it and living it longer than any of the new crowd.


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## chehawknapper (Nov 9, 2011)

I met John and Geri Mcpherson at Rivercane Rendezvous in 1991 when they came as fellow instructors to this week long primitive skills event. Great Folks! John was our first editor for the Society of Primitive Technology. Steve Watts is a past president of the Society, works at the Schiele Museum in Gasonia, N.C. and has been active in Primitive Technology across the world his entire adult life. Jim Riggs' book "Blue Mtn. Buckskin" is the end word on dry scrape and has been in this field since his college days. Larry Dean Olson's book "Outdoor Survival Skills" was first published in the '60's and is considered by folks, who have been in the field long enough to know, as the Father of the the primitive skills movement. David wescott is the editor of the Society. Scott Jones is the current predident and has been involved his entire life. There are many others that have been around this field for over 40 years myself included. My comments regarding Cody are simply based on my knowledge of his capabilities in the desert. His ability to go barefoot is because he does it every day and has developed very tough feet. He doesn't  have to wear shoes everyday like most of us who work a job. Going barefoot is a liability even for Cody. But don't underestimate his knowledge and skills of the desert because he goes barefoot.


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## Miguel Cervantes (Nov 9, 2011)

doenightmare said:


> I don't take the  life or death part of the shows serious but they are fun to watch.
> 
> Les was the man -  I wish he would come back and make some new episodes. On a side note, I heard a radio interview recently where he was talking about a bigfoot encounter he had doing a show in Alaska.



Just had to go there didn't you?

On another note, don't remember the show, or the couple, but there was a "survival" show on with a husband and wife team last year. Kind of hokey, but they put themselves through heck in an effort to produce as real a show as possible, and eventually failed on one Rocky Mountain winter survival show and had to call in for help. They were done.

I kind of liked that they were genuine, but I guess the lack of theatrics and staged drama made them unappealing to most viewers. 

The worst of all of them is Bear Gryllis, if someone tried 10% of what he proposes they wouldn't last a day in the wilderness.


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## RBM (Nov 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> Larry Dean Olson's book "Outdoor Survival Skills" was first published in the '60's and is considered by folks, who have been in the field long enough to know, as the Father of the the primitive skills movement.



Absolutely. Not saying that others have not been there for a long time. I did say, "the new crowd." But a lot of us out here don't have the benefit of going to the schools, gatherings, and such so we typically come from one of three lines of thought or a combination of them. Olson, McPherson, and Brown. They have been published nationally and are known as practicing experts. There are many that have published works and are just writing about what has come before or what was written before and do not practice it (this is obvious by what they write when put into practice). The books give folks the knowledge to practice the skills at home that otherwise may not be able to afford the cost of travel, events, and personal instruction. The same goes for web-sites.



			
				chehawknapper said:
			
		

> But don't underestimate his knowledge and skills of the desert because he goes barefoot.



Not saying anything against his knowledge and experience. Just that these shows are entertainment value and are made to make money. They are not instructional shows or most folks would not watch them as has been stated earlier.


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## chehawknapper (Nov 9, 2011)

I could not agree with you more in regard to all of the new shows out there. I do watch them for entertainment value, much to the dismay of my wife. I am usually laughing my butt off at the rediculous situations they put themselves in. There was one with Les in southern Utah where he supposedly made a bowdrill fire. He did not have his spindle hand properly braced and was bouncing all over the place. The tape was miraculously cut and the next scene was him blowing the ember in the tinder bundle to flame. Now that was entertaining - I laughed for 5 minutes. At the beginning of the show he gave David Holladay a 3 second cameo appearance. David is one of the overall best primitive skill practitioners in the country.


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## RBM (Nov 9, 2011)

chehawknapper said:
			
		

> At the beginning of the show he gave David Holladay a 3 second cameo appearance. David is one of the overall best primitive skill practitioners in the country.



I saw a photo somewhere of Holladay running Les through some Southwest hand drill practice. But I am sure Les had plenty of that when he was out at the McPherson's place in Kansas. I did see the test show called "Summer" that Les did just before the Survivorman series started. He had all kinds of problems and those were not edited out. I think he did everything that shouldn't be done and that in itself was a lesson. It was on youtube but not sure if its still there.


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## RBM (Nov 9, 2011)

Miguel Cervantes said:
			
		

> On another note, don't remember the show, or the couple, but there was a "survival" show on with a husband and wife team last year. Kind of hokey, but they put themselves through heck in an effort to produce as real a show as possible, and eventually failed on one Rocky Mountain winter survival show and had to call in for help. They were done.
> 
> I kind of liked that they were genuine, but I guess the lack of theatrics and staged drama made them unappealing to most viewers.



That would be the Hawkes. Man,Woman,Wild or some such. Myke is another military survival vet from Kentucky I think. Like most, they have either a survival school or survival trip schedule for those that want to pay their price when they are not doing their show. BTW, the show is still on. There is some good things and bad things just like the rest.


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## Derek Edge (Nov 20, 2011)

applejuice said:


> I realize they have a camera crew with him.
> I thought it was cool the way he made the arrow and point. That turkey could have been leashed for all i know, but its a cool show.
> 
> I was watching a few of the episodes on netflix , I never saw it on cable when it was on. I guess Man vs Wild took their spot.



Look really close, that turkey was tied out and you will notice it right after the shot.  I lost all respect for this show after watching this episode.


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