# gas engine for pulling Fifth wheel camper



## WildcatHunter (Feb 12, 2013)

Got a friend looking at a 35 foot long fifth wheel camper.  Salesman told him that in no way any truck with a gas engine could handle this camper.  he has a 2010 dodge ram 2500 4x4 with a hemi.  It may not have as much pulling torque but as far as handling the load in stability wise i wouldnt think it wouldnt be much different than a diesel truck.  What do you guys think?


----------



## bluemarlin (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd never even consider using a Dodge Hemi to pull a 35' fifth wheel. Sure it will pull it but try and stop... Trade the Hemi for a diesel. They are designed to pull that type rig.


----------



## billy336 (Feb 12, 2013)

Think he needs a Duramax


----------



## WildcatHunter (Feb 12, 2013)

how will having a diesel stop better than a gas?


----------



## safebuilder (Feb 12, 2013)

only with engine brake


----------



## merc123 (Feb 12, 2013)

bluemarlin said:


> I'd never even consider using a Dodge Hemi to pull a 35' fifth wheel. Sure it will pull it but try and stop... Trade the Hemi for a diesel. They are designed to pull that type rig.





safebuilder said:


> only with engine brake



A 2010 year model 2500 Hemi vs. 2500 Diesel makes no nevermind on stopping as I'm assuming both are built on the same frame so same brakes would be used.   You put up my '00 Powerstroke against the new ones with "engine brake" and still isn't that much diffference if any from a gas vs. diesel standpoint other than downhilll braking.  



Here's a link to a comparison of 2010 Hemi vs. Diesel:  http://www.trucktrend.com/features/...0_heavy_duty_crew_cab_tech_specs/viewall.html

The problem with gas over diesel is longevity.  The diesel was designed to tow.  Gas was not.  You will be unimpressed with the Hemi's 400 torque vs. the 650+ of the diesel.  Horsepower is great...when you're doing 80 but torque gets you going from the stop sign.  Also, look at the RPM for the ratings of the 383 HP/400 Torque from the Hemi.  Nearly redline.  The diesel's are more like idle RPM to get the 350/650 ratings.  That makes a difference.  Are you going to floor it at every stop sign to get going at 400 foot pounds of torque or ease down and drive normal at 650 foot pounds of torque?  The other things is transmission.  The diesels have a different transmission a little more built for towing.   

I think it is more worthwhile to get the diesel for pulling something that big.  A little pop up or 15 footer, get the Hemi.  Anything bigger and you'll want the diesel.  Also your trailer load rating for a Hemi is only around 9k.  An empty 35' camper is about 7k+.  You're gonna load stuff in it and that gets heavy.  I'd say a loaded out 35' camper is closer to 12k+.


----------



## bluemarlin (Feb 12, 2013)

WildcatHunter said:


> how will having a diesel stop better than a gas?



Engine brake, trans that's built to haul heavy loads, extra leaf springs and heavy duty suspension you'll find on HD trucks. But to answer your question, brakes heat up and stop working. The downhill exhaust brake is a huge help that saves brake pads. It also runs your transmission in a tow mode.  You ever get in a bad crosswind pulling a 35' trailer you'll wish you had a dually as well. 
Can a Hemi do it? sure.
How long will it last? that's the question... There's a reason you don't see Hemi or gas trucks pulling heavy loads. merc123 brings up several valid points.


----------



## bull0ne (Feb 12, 2013)

merc123 said:


> A 2010 year model 2500 Hemi vs. 2500 Diesel makes no nevermind on stopping as I'm assuming both are built on the same frame so same brakes would be used.   You put up my '00 Powerstroke against the new ones with "engine brake" and still isn't that much diffference if any from a gas vs. diesel standpoint other than downhilll braking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Strong post. Can't dispute a word of it. 

The hemi would suffice for limited duty, at 2 lane road speeds, on flat ground. Past that, it takes a diesel to pull a 35 footer like it needs to be pulled without using the engine or transmission up real quick.  

I've been hooked to a 30 foot bumper pull Camper with a 5.7 GM powerplant in a 2500 series truck.  I found out real quick what I was lacking under the hood. The hemi is rated a little higher in torque, but not enough difference to think it would do much better with a 35 footer behind it.


----------



## merc123 (Feb 13, 2013)

bull0ne said:


> I've been hooked to a 30 foot bumper pull Camper with a 5.7 GM powerplant in a 2500 series truck.  I found out real quick what I was lacking under the hood. The hemi is rated a little higher in torque, but not enough difference to think it would do much better with a 35 footer behind it.



Yep.  A guy I race with had a GM 2500 with the 5.7.   He used his to pull his race car.  There was one hill we had to climb to go home.  It was a long, steep hill and it was curvy so speed wasn't the greatest.  

He was only able to do 20 MPH up the hill and had his floored.  I was able to do 30 MPH up the hill in my powerstroke and but I had 1/2 throttle the whole way.  My issue was my exhaust gas temps were getting up there trying to follow him at such a slow speed.  When the turbo would spool up and give me boost it would make my EGTs soar so I had to back off which lost my momentum.   If I was in front I would pull away from him at 1/2 throttle and him at full.  It was all about throttle finesse on that hill to keep my EGTs down. Our loads weighed about the same.  Even now with my 24' enclosed trailer and about 4k pounds more load than him I can keep up with him on that same hill.  Try addking 4k to a gas burner and keeping up the same.


----------



## jesnic (Feb 13, 2013)

My brother has a 1995 Suburban with the 454. He used to pull a 35' camper with it. Pulled fine, but gas mileage and power were very low. He now has a 05 cummins and pulls the same camper easily and gets twice the fuel mileage and doesn't have to floor it to go up hills. I have an 02 cummins and a 01 powerstroke. I have a 32', triple axle flatbed trailer that I can pull easily with the cummins. My younger brother's 06 hemi struggles with it and only gets about 8 miles a gallon when pulling it loaded with the tractors. I get about 16 mpg when pulling it loaded with the cummins. Even the powerstroke struggles a little, being stock.


----------



## Inthegarge (Feb 13, 2013)

Don't overlook the gear ratios.....It doesn't help to have highway gears to try and pull around town loads....Diesels are geared to pull loads while pickups are geared for fuel economy..Unfortunately you can't really get good mileage with any full size truck today...


----------



## stratos201 (Feb 13, 2013)

Never thought I would buy a diesel... I took a test drive and it took all of 10 minutes to make my decision. First time I pulled with it I immediately said I'll never own another gas truck! I pull a 36ft fifth wheel and I truly don't think my old 2004  2500 GMC gasser could handle it. I know for a fact that I would NOT attempt to pull it over the mountains with the gasser but the Duramax pulled it with no problem!


----------



## merc123 (Feb 13, 2013)

stratos201 said:


> never thought i would buy a diesel... I took a test drive and it took all of 10 minutes to make my decision. First time i pulled with it i immediately said i'll never own another gas truck! I pull a 36ft fifth wheel and i truly don't think my old 2004  2500 gmc gasser could handle it. I know for a fact that i would not attempt to pull it over the mountains with the gasser but the duramax pulled it with no problem!



yes!


----------



## Broncobird (Feb 13, 2013)

Does anybody know anything about pulling with a ford ecoboost from what i hear it is the next best thing to a diesel without all the expense?


----------



## merc123 (Feb 14, 2013)

Broncobird said:


> Does anybody know anything about pulling with a ford ecoboost from what i hear it is the next best thing to a diesel without all the expense?



Google it.  Shows some pretty good results.  Here's probably the reason why:

2011â€“ Ford F-150
365 hp (272 kW) @5500 rpm, 420 lb·ft (569 N·m) @2500 rpm 

420 lb feet of torque at 2500 RPM.  My diesel has 500 and something at about 1600 RPM but I'm at 12 MPG 

The standard V8's without the ecoboost are say 420 but at 4500 RPM.  The higher torque at the lower RPM is better for towing.  The higher the horsepower the better highway passing you'll have because you're in the higher RPM range especially if downshifting. 

If you could get 500# of torque at 1200 RPM it will tow better than something with 2,000# of torque at 6500 RPM.  This is another reason the diesel outperforms a gas burner on hills.  The gas burner produces torque but at higher RPM's.  If you're pulling a hill at 2500 RPM you're not getting the most power out of your engine.  

This is also where the continous variable transmissions come in.  I was in a Hybrid Focus.  When you floored the car the car never shifted and the RPM's stayed at the "optimal" RPM the whole time all the way up to 80 MPH.  If you can keep the vehicle at the optimum RPM the entire time you're accelerating you are using the max amount of HP/TQ available.  Shifting and losing RPM causes you to lose HP/TQ.


----------



## Poleclimber15 (Feb 16, 2013)

The thing is he said the salesman said 
"Salesman told him that in no way any truck with a gas engine could handle this camper."  That salesman is full of crap.  What everyone is saying about diesel vs. gas engine is true.  However, saying a gas engine truck can't handle it is false.  My dad years ago had a '78 Ford F-250, and he pulled a 40' Coachman fithwheel.  The truck handled it just fine.  It's all in knowing what you are pulling and what you truck can do.  Then adjust your driving style.  
All that being said, when he Bought a Dodge dually, with a 5.9 cummins, never knew the trailer was back there, and the fuel mileage was alot better, too.


----------



## merc123 (Feb 16, 2013)

But the salesman was honest and accurate.  

Look at that new Toyota commercial pulling the space shuttle. Can it do it?  Yep. Should it?  NOPE!


----------



## FROGSLAYER (Feb 16, 2013)

Poleclimber15 said:


> The thing is he said the salesman said
> "Salesman told him that in no way any truck with a gas engine could handle this camper."  That salesman is full of crap.  What everyone is saying about diesel vs. gas engine is true.  However, saying a gas engine truck can't handle it is false.  My dad years ago had a '78 Ford F-250, and he pulled a 40' Coachman fithwheel.  The truck handled it just fine.  It's all in knowing what you are pulling and what you truck can do.  Then adjust your driving style.
> All that being said, when he Bought a Dodge dually, with a 5.9 cummins, never knew the trailer was back there, and the fuel mileage was alot better, too.



X2    My 35 footer with my 2500hd 6.0 Eats the gas but no issue pulling it. If the OP listed what kind of camper I missed it ... the older ones are much heavier. That being said ... if I were gonna replace the truck for the camper I would go dually and more than likely diesel.


----------



## zigzag3337 (Feb 26, 2013)

I have the 2010 Dodge 3500 2WD CC dually and pull a 2012 Cyclone 3950 HD 42' toyhauler. Let me first say, this thing is bad heavy (pushing 18k loaded). My truck is the same as the 2500 other then the extra suspension and the dual wheels. One of the major benefits of the Cummins is the exhaust brake and the trans brake combo that Dodge has. I can almost stop my rig even without getting on the brakes just by letting the truck work as it should. 

As far as pulling it, it will all depend on your gearing and the UVW of your camper. My old 32' camper had a dry weight of 9k pounds and I pulled it with my 2500 with no issues, but I was running 4:10 gears. I pulled about 40k miles with this setup.  Other then the chucking that comes with pulling a fiver, you would forget it was back there. 

I suggest you pull the towing specs of your truck and see what the capacity is. Find out what the UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) is of the camper, then add 2,000 lbs to the UVW. If the camper number is less then the trucks capacity, then you will be fine. 

Your fuel mileage is going to suck for sure. Probably around 6-7 MPG using the Hemi verses 12 with the Cummins. 

I averaged 15.6 on our Yellowstone trip, but my truck was tuned.


----------



## Michael F. Gray (Feb 26, 2013)

"Jesnic" hit the nail on the head. If you are going to pull something that large, it's best to obtain a vehicle designed for that kind of size, weight, and the torgue to handle it. Duel wheel diesel with turbo & jake brake. Fuel mileage and service life will be much more attractive than a gasoline engine.


----------



## CrazyCatfish (Mar 21, 2013)

*hmmmm.*

never owned a diesel so i guess my dog does not really hunt but my 1994 dodge ram 2500 with a 360 has hard times pulling my little 14ft beauty!!!!


----------

