# Finally a Moustache Simpson!



## QSVC (Oct 9, 2013)

Not found by me unfortunately. A guy found this on Lake Blackshear. Image from an article in the most recent issue of "Georgia Forestry Today." There is hope ladies and gentlemen.


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## Nicodemus (Oct 9, 2013)

Dadgum....

How many does that make total found? 15, 20 maybe? 

Unless I`m mistaken, that`s about as far north that one has been found too.


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## NCHillbilly (Oct 9, 2013)

Looks like it's in pretty great shape, too. I've always wondered about those and what the advantage to that shape is and what they were used for?


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## QSVC (Oct 9, 2013)

Chehawknapper (Ben) has a pretty solid theory that they were used to hunt turkey. The idea is that they hit the turkey but don't penetrate past the hafted point ("mustache" barbs"). This would slow the turkey down. Plus turkey feathers absorb blood and can making tracking a nightmare if hit with a "regular' point. If hit with a mustache simpson the wound stays open and bleeds more thereby aiding tracking. I'm sure he can elaborate.


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## David Parker (Oct 9, 2013)

very cool .   THink it would take down a wooly mammoth?  with the right shot right?


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## chehawknapper (Oct 9, 2013)

The major problem with my thought is I don't even know if turkeys were running around then but it would still be effective for any large bird. Just a thought strictly out of the air. The one shown is the widest I have ever seen by far.


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## diamondback (Oct 9, 2013)

Ive never held one before or even saw one in real life but I have always thought that it was just a unhafted knife that was hand held with the point and cutting edge sticking out between the index and middle finger kinda like some of the skinning knives today.


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## Whiteeagle (Oct 9, 2013)

I thought they were "drill tips" for making holes in bark, soapstone, etc. I have see several sizes through the years. Maybe somebody can research and post what they find out.


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## oyster (Oct 9, 2013)

that's awesome!


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## Forest Grump (Oct 9, 2013)

*Holy cow!*



NCHillbilly said:


> Looks like it's in pretty great shape, too. I've always wondered about those and what the advantage to that shape is and what they were used for?



Me too! Always struck me as a rather bizarre concoction; never could see the utility in those "ears"... & you guys tell me those folks were all about utility. Why in the world?...

Were there even turkeys in the post-Glacial era? Maybe in the hardwood forest that supposedly occupied the coastal plain, not likely in the Piedmont spruce/Savannahs of the transitional times.

Regardless, that find is beyond cool!!! More folks have won the Nobel prize or been to space than have found one of those...Wow...


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## Bow Only (Oct 10, 2013)

Whiteeagle said:


> I thought they were "drill tips" for making holes in bark, soapstone, etc. I have see several sizes through the years. Maybe somebody can research and post what they find out.



They would exhibit the typical wear for such a tool.  They weren't for drilling.

It is such a rare find, but I have a friend that found one earlier this year with one part of the barb broken.  Why would the barb break?


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## Forest Grump (Oct 10, 2013)

The description in my edition of Overstreet says this about them:

" _A small to medium size, narrow knife form with large up-turning ears & a convex, indented base. Very rare in the type area. Fluting is absent. Only about 40-50 including broken ones are known. Lateral edges were not resharpened and show extreme edge wear that extends over and into the dorsal and ventral blade faces on most examples."_

I find them fascinating, with that outrageous base
Admittedly, what little I know about them is from pictures & descriptors in books; never actually seen a real one. I suppose that one will make it into the Paleo database that was suggested in the Clovis thread recently?

Regular Simpson points were ground in the hafting area: where is the grinding on those? Did they dull the barbs, or are they sharp?


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## Ranger1276 (Oct 10, 2013)

Is it possible that there was an artistic bent to some of the knappers, just like there is today? No reason for them to make a lot of different stone items, like the statues from Ga, or paintings, totems, ect, some might possibly be for decoration., like for a necklace.


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## QSVC (Oct 10, 2013)

Well, we know they were:

1. Paleo timeframe

2. Would not penetrate past the barbs (made for this specific purpose, though?)

3. Very rare

I wonder if #2 lends itself to hunting any paleo-era fauna?

Or maybe #3 indicates they were a bad idea and relatively useless


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## Nicodemus (Oct 10, 2013)

In the immortal words of my old buddy, Chehawknapper, "Swiss Army Rock". 

Just kiddin`, but there are several different tools on a Mustache Simpson.


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## White Horse (Oct 11, 2013)

Ladies and gentlemen, the skeptic in me asks: how do we know that the point in the picture wasn't made 10 minutes before the photo was taken?

Also, what stone does that appear to be?


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## Forest Grump (Oct 11, 2013)

White Horse said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, the skeptic in me asks: how do we know that the point in the picture wasn't made 10 minutes before the photo was taken?
> 
> Also, what stone does that appear to be?



No idea, although if he did wish to sell such a valuable point it would need authenticating. 

One thing about it, it looks to me to have been resharpened almost to exhaustion, which would go along with people who generally lived further south exploring up the river, & carrying curated tools until they were of little use or they found some high quality chert to make a replacement. 

Things got a pretty color, maybe agatized coral?


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## HossBog (Oct 17, 2013)

Allow someone who is old but knows hardly anything at all about anything give an idea - boys, was that an ancient hand fighting thingamajig? Hold it between ye fingers and hitting a bloke would do some hurt. Hey, I don't know nothin! Not brass, but rock knuckles.


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## slightly grayling (Oct 21, 2013)

Is it sharp along the edge from the point to the moustache tips?  It looks too thick in the photo, but the shape  resembles a skinning tool that prevents cutting the stomach of a deer.


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## Forest Grump (Oct 21, 2013)

slightly grayling said:


> Is it sharp along the edge from the point to the moustache tips?  It looks too thick in the photo, but the shape  resembles a skinning tool that prevents cutting the stomach of a deer.



The one pictured above has either been worn or resharpened to the point that it almost has a drill-form; in its original state, it must've been huge, looking at those "handlebar moustache" auricles. 

I tried to find a picture of an early stage one; most of what I could find on google images were reproductions, which are often shaped according to a knapper's whim; but here is a page from Overstreetid.com with a couple of more typical, less used ones:

http://typology.overstreetid.com/details.php?time=1&&region=GC&&shape=1&&arrowhead_id=1235

For some reason I've never figured out, Paleo knives seem to have most-always been irregular, (I presume they were) typically hand-held (from their ovoid to crescent shapes & lack of hafting), & often unifacial. It almost seems as though they crafted these marvelous weapons to bring the game down, then turned to utilitarian flakes to process the carcass.

.


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## fish hawk (Oct 21, 2013)

I showed this pic to some folks and some have came to the conclusion that the piece has some heavy restoration.I'm not saying it does or doesn't but notice the area below the black lines,sure looks like it to me.If you go to the web site you can really blow the pic up big and when you do it becomes even more evident.Maybe not even a moustache at all but a drill with the ears added.....Most all MS that I have known about have come from only one area in the Suwanee river basin


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## fish hawk (Oct 22, 2013)

*Update*

From a very,very reliable source,Quote:"I have seen that point and know that gentleman. Hes really a good guy, just likes to "fix" them. It does have extensive repair".........We've been had!!!


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## QSVC (Oct 22, 2013)

Indeed, oh well. I wonder what the original looked like?


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## runswithbeer (Oct 23, 2013)

Also looks like brier creek altered chert


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## twtabb (Oct 23, 2013)

Nicodemus said:


> Dadgum....
> 
> How many does that make total found? 15, 20 maybe?
> 
> Unless I`m mistaken, that`s about as far north that one has been found too.



Always wonder about the original maker when I find a point.  Nic you think the 15 or 20 found could be by the same person or persons?


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## Nicodemus (Oct 23, 2013)

twtabb said:


> Always wonder about the original maker when I find a point.  Nic you think the 15 or 20 found could be by the same person or persons?





As unique as this point type is, I would hazard that if one person didn`t make them, there`s a good chance they knew of each other. 


As for that material on the point shown, some high grade Coastal Plains chert looks like that when heat treated.


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## runswithbeer (Oct 31, 2013)

if its treated chert wouldnt that throw a snag in the whole thing?


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## dug714 (Oct 31, 2013)

i have a (ax) just like the other pic i found at clarks hill


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## deerstand (Dec 6, 2013)

one article said they were usually worn from the tip to the curve, the thinking being this was the used area.. could it be possible it was smoothed in this area on purpose, woven into a ropes or leather strap. the long point narrowing into the rope section with the two "barbs" sticking out of each side..this arrangement could be used as a swinging weapon, possible used as hook for fishing or even trapping..? i may have to make one and experiment with uses...


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## Lukikus2 (Dec 6, 2013)

HossBog said:


> Allow someone who is old but knows hardly anything at all about anything give an idea - boys, was that an ancient hand fighting thingamajig? Hold it between ye fingers and hitting a bloke would do some hurt. Hey, I don't know nothin! Not brass, but rock knuckles.



I can see that.


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## Son (Dec 20, 2013)

I doubt they are Simpsons. In fact, everything written is conjecture.


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