# flintlock rifle...



## Pablo (Jun 21, 2010)

I have a friend who had Bob Watts build him a flintlock rifle back in 1979. I believe he said he paid nearly $1000.00 for it back then. Well as happens to many hard times fell upon him and he decided to sale this beautiful .50 rifle with a full curled maple stock. He never fired it, kept it spotless all these years, but it had nice patina from just being handled. Well some so-n-so offered him $1000.00 for it, and my friend being near 80 years old and not knowing well enough to have it appraised sold it. It would definitely be worth more than that, plus Bob Watts died a few years back... would make it even more vauble. Anybody out there have any idea what that rifle would be worth?


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## Nicodemus (Jun 22, 2010)

I would have given him considerable more than that for it.


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## majg1234 (Jun 22, 2010)

shame some S&S took advantage of him,that rifle was worth a lot more than that....you know though that guy will get his eventually


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## Darkhorse (Jun 22, 2010)

Have any photos of the rifle? There is absolutely no way to put a price on a rifle without starting with photos. Just a builders name won't neccessarily bring more money. Unless someone knew the builder and just wanted a rifle built by him.
$1000. in 1979 would have been a good bit to pay. Perhaps the rifle was highly decorated?  Around 76 when I was going to Rondy's and BP matches around the state most prices quoted to me were in the $350. to $500. range.
In 1979 suppliers of quality locks and barrels were scarce. Most rifles that I was aware of had a lock from Dixie gun works.   Quality wise it was tops for the day but compare it to the function and form of a Chambers lock now.
I don't know Mr. Watts work so I can't place a value his name would bring. What is boils down to is this $1000. could of been a steal or too much to pay. Without the rifle to examine its all speculation.
Personally if I was buying a rifle for use in woods or on the line I'd prefer one built today, simply because the components today are superior to what we could get back then. And more has been learned about the fine points of longrifle building and design. I've seen rifles that were considered excellent 30+ years ago, that when viewed today had glaring faults.   FWIW


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## Darkhorse (Jun 22, 2010)

I stand corrected. After writing the above post I started remembering the name Bob Watts. (excuse me. my mind is getting that way)   So a quick google search turned up a couple of things.

Some guy bought a Bob Watts rifle in 1977 for $470. he has recently been offered $3000. and turned it down.....

Bob Watts was written up in Foxfire 5 along with Hershal House, and Jim Chambers.   (That is very distinguished company)

So it seems his rifles were of the quality and workmanship to withstand the test of time.  All I can say is; I wish I had one.

Another rememberance; Back  in the day a lot of fella's from N. Ga. and Tennessee were shooting some very accurate and fine looking flintlocks. I don't know who built them or where they got the components but they were fine rifles. But I was a very young shooter then just trying to get by and my building and learning days were a few decades into my future.


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## Flintrock (Jun 22, 2010)

I knew Bob Watts. He was an excellent gun smith , rifle maker and shooter. He owned and opereated Stone Mountain Armory for many years. You can also look him up , there is a section written about him in the FOX FIRE # 5 book.
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He used quality parts to built his guns and were of the southern style. His rifles were works of art and would increase in value.
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To give you an idea of value. I have a rifle from another rifle maker,Frank Bartlett. .Purchased in  1986 for $ 1200. . I called him in in the mid 1990s and he was asking 2k with a 2 year waiting list.
He passed away. Dixie Gun Works has one of his rifles listed on line for over  $ 10,000 . I think this is over priced.
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Knowing the type of rifle he made, I would guess that a unshot Watts rifle would START in the $ 5,000 range
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I am assuming the rfle is signed. He would have put his name on the top flat near the breech. If his name is not on it then it may a copy from one of his apprentices.
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Hope this helps


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## Flintrock (Jun 22, 2010)

Also,
Bob made up a few of his own rifle kits. He was getting about $700 for one in the early 1980s. They were shaped up just like the ones he made and he used the same quality parts but they were UNSIGNED and unfinished. The signature makes a major difference on a custom rifle. Just  like a painting with out a  signature


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## dawg2 (Jun 22, 2010)

Your friend was swindled IMO.  It's a shame how some folks are.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jun 22, 2010)

Flint, was his place on the main street in Stone Mountain? I may have bought my first BP rifle from him. He had some fine rifles in the shop when I was there. I never could have afforded one of them then. I bought a CVA kit from him that was pretty fine in my opinion. Seemed much better than newer stuff from CVA, wish I still had that one.


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## SASS249 (Jun 22, 2010)

Yes, Bob's place was on Main Street in Stone Mountain.  He did build very fine rifles for the time.  He made a lot of his own parts and furniture for his rifles.  As Flintrock said, the rifle must be signed to have the value that a Watts rifle should have.  Bob had a number of apprentices at least one of whom was prone to build guns and pass them off as one of Bob's.  His rifles are pretty distinctive in style.  I would believe a true Bob Watts should bring an easy 5k.  There are a few people who collect his guns.  Thing is his guns were usually excellent shooters.  Bob himself was one of the best shooters I have seen.  He would sometimes bring a rifle in the white to a match, win the match and end up selling the gun.  He was a fine craftsman.


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## Pablo (Jun 29, 2010)

To all those who replied to this message about the Watts Rifle. Thank you, I really appreciate your replys and your time. I guess whats done is done, and I cant undo it. I havn't told my buddy what that rifle might have been worth... probably never will. Makes me sick to my stomach... and it might kill that old man if he knew. I may go find that fellow that bought it and give him a piece of my mind though. Anyhow y'all take care. Easy- Pablo


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## CraigS1001 (Jun 30, 2010)

Did your friend have his beloved rifle offered for sale on some website or something? How did the buyer find out it was for sale?  Perhaps the buyer had no clue who built the gun or what it is worth...just saying!  I have been looking for a quality flint lock for my son and it seems 1K is about the going price for most of them that are of any quality.


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## LanceColeman (Jul 5, 2010)

nah........ go to trax man. second hand flinters from reputable skilled smiths average 12-1400 bucks.

You shouldn't touch a house or a  watts for less than 3 without whacking somebody over the head!


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## TGUN (Aug 18, 2010)

Agree. I knew Bob personally. I never got one of his guns (he was always backlogged and I was always broke) but he took the time to tune and harden the lock/frizzen on my Hatfield flinter and made it shoot like one of his own. He never charged me a dime. He said I could pay him back when I had the money to by one of his. He got me hooked on hand made flintlock guns. Great man and one heck of a good gunsmith. I would love a chance to get one of his originals.

Bill


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## John Travis Snider (Apr 24, 2011)

I knew Bob Watts, his brother Jack, and his Mother, (we all called her "Grandma Watts".  Bob was a very good shot. I competed with him a couple of times at the MS State Match held at Byrom,MS , about 10 mi south of Jackson. He is the first man I ever saw shoot off hand with a full extended support arm. He shot the entire match on Sunday morning,shooting two or three targets per relay. He carried on a full blown conversation with friends and family as he loaded, then,stepping to the firing line, raising that little .32 flinter to his shoulder and firing quickly, ----so he could get back to the conversation. I WAS impressed. I'd seen and competed against some of the best shooters in the south, but no one as quick and smooth as Bob was that day. I remember that class act vividly. He won handily. That was about 35 yrs ago. 
I had Bob build me a fine .45 cal, 7/8" across the flats barrel, special order slip breech flinter in 1976. I got it on the 3rd of July  and carried it in the Springhill, LA Bi-cenntinial Parade on the 4th of July. I won the LA State ML Championship in Baton Rouge that fall with that Watts rifle and several other matches over the next 10 yrs. 
I haven't shot black powder since 1986 and was looking for some idea of what my rifle was worth now. I paid just shy of $800 for it in 1976. I'm interested in selling, but am not sure how the best way to find values and actually do it. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John T


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## CAL (Apr 24, 2011)

You might go to GunsAmerica  and do a search for Watts flintlock rifles and see if any are there and what they are selling for.


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## Buckskinner (Jun 24, 2011)

*Robert "Bob" Watts*

I knew Bob Watts and used to work in his shop a couple on nights a week after my regular job. I did some lathe work, fileing barrels, making short starters and such. I was also learning restoration from him. 
 Bob made me a 45 cal southern flinter stocked in cherry.
It has a Green Mtn barrel, Davis double-set triggers,and a Siler lock.It has a set of his sights [which are higher] because I was compeating and they cut down on barrel mirage.                                                                                            I got "the family discount" on the rifle as I was working for the experience. I believe I paid $1800 over time as he completed the gun. I have a long length of pull and that rifle fits me like no other.
 This gun was my 1st flinter so Watts took me to a range and taught me" Zen and the art of flintlock shooting." I also have a patch knile that he made from a straight razor blade and a small antler crown. He told me he would make it as soon as he found those razor blades. 10 years later he found them and I got the knife. I made him initial it on the bolster.
 He was a great friend and I miss his counsel.


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