# Dog Hunt News



## jbogg (Oct 4, 2021)

Anybody know how it’s going?


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## Whit90 (Oct 6, 2021)

Curious as well.


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## chuckNwind (Oct 8, 2021)

I was thinking about calling next Monday to see if I could get harvest numbers.


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## EyesUp83 (Oct 8, 2021)

Are there any bears left after the dog hunts? They seem to kill so many I can't help but think it would be a waste of time to hunt either of those places without a set of hounds anymore.


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## jbogg (Oct 8, 2021)

EyesUp83 said:


> Are there any bears left after the dog hunts? They seem to kill so many I can't help but think it would be a waste of time to hunt either of those places without a set of hounds anymore.



I don’t believe there have been many bears killed immediately following the dog hunts for the past two years. The number of bears killed combined with the number that leave the area probably doesn’t leave a whole lot left. However, it seems that they do fill back in over time, and by the following archery season there are plenty to hunt.


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## chrislibby88 (Oct 8, 2021)

EyesUp83 said:


> Are there any bears left after the dog hunts? They seem to kill so many I can't help but think it would be a waste of time to hunt either of those places without a set of hounds anymore.


There has been no shortage of bear sign the past two years on the early rifle hunts before the dog hunts. And there was a handful of guys getting bears tagged with me the second day of the hunt. I’ve seen bears both years too. Think I’m gonna try Cohutta next year and see how much greener the grass is on the other side, but I doubt I will ever stop hunting Chestatee.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 8, 2021)

Talked to a guy hunting yesterday. I think he said 18 had been killed. Their group had killed two I think. 

I know this, it has flat out rained this week. Seriously.


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## Professor (Oct 8, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> There has been no shortage of bear sign the past two years on the early rifle hunts before the dog hunts. And there was a handful of guys getting bears tagged with me the second day of the hunt. I’ve seen bears both years too. Think I’m gonna try Cohutta next year and see how much greener the grass is on the other side, but I doubt I will ever stop hunting Chestatee.


No. You got a thing with Chestatee. Keep hunting it.


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## GAoutdoor (Oct 11, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> Think I’m gonna try Cohutta next year and see how much greener the grass is on the other side, but I doubt I will ever stop hunting Chestatee.


Take my response with a grain of salt, as I've only hunted one spot, one time in each place and went in blind. I hunted similar elevation (3,000' +/-) in both places. Chestatee was wet and I didn't see any sign where I was, but saw a bear cub and doe. Cohutta was much drier, saw tons of bear (oaks that were frequently climbed, scat) and deer sign (scrapes, well used trail) but no animals. When I hunted Cohutta yesterday, acorns littered the ground in the heavy mast area I found, so no real reason for them to be climbing I'd guess. I think the spot I found in Cohutta would be much better earlier in the season. I could see in a lot of oaks, but given how steep it was, they could have been eating at the base of a close tree down the slope and I wouldn't have known.

Additionally, it seemed most everywhere I was in Chestatee was thick with something. There seemed to be more open forest in Cohutta (once I fought through the thick stuff), but again, I have very limited experience in both places.


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## Professor (Oct 11, 2021)

Up high at Chestatee can be very thick. Lots of laurel. The same stuff is at Cohutta, but up high I hav found blowdown to be a bigger challenge. But, there is a lot of open forest there as well.


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## Corleone85 (Oct 11, 2021)

EyesUp83 said:


> Are there any bears left after the dog hunts? They seem to kill so many I can't help but think it would be a waste of time to hunt either of those places without a set of hounds anymore.



There are currently over at least 3000 bears in north Georgia alone, with the population increasing every year. Central Georgia is hard estimate as there has not been a thorough study recently. In south Georgia there are at least 800 bears. 

I can understand everybody's concern after seeing the harvest numbers from the dog hunts but let's get real guys they only have one week out of the entire season and it's not like they're allowed to kill an unlimited amount.


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## jbogg (Oct 11, 2021)

Corleone85 said:


> There are currently over at least 3000 bears in north Georgia alone, with the population increasing every year. Central Georgia is hard estimate as there has not been a thorough study recently. In south Georgia there are at least 800 bears.
> 
> I can understand everybody's concern after seeing the harvest numbers from the dog hunts but let's get real guys they only have one week out of the entire season and it's not like they're allowed to kill an unlimited amount.



There are plenty of bears on the National Forest,  but I think the poster was asking specifically about the dog hunts impact on Chattahoochee and Chestatee WMAs.  If the preliminary harvest numbers regarding this year‘s dog hunt are accurate, then those harvest numbers are fairly strong circumstantial evidence that the high harvest rates from the past two years worth of dog hunts have had a significant impact on bear numbers on those WMAs.


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## Corleone85 (Oct 11, 2021)

jbogg said:


> There are plenty of bears on the National Forest,  but I think the poster was asking specifically about the dog hunts impact on Chattahoochee and Chestatee WMAs.  If the preliminary harvest numbers regarding this year‘s dog hunt are accurate, then those harvest numbers are fairly strong circumstantial evidence that the high harvest rates from the past two years worth of dog hunts have had a significant impact on bear numbers on those WMAs.



I will try to post some scientific or at least credible sources tomorrow, but alot of bears notice right away when the hound season starts. They have home ranges that span hundreds of miles. Do some stick around? Sure, of course the harvest numbers reflect this. But many more get the **** out of dodge and come back roughly 6 weeks later. We know much of this information to be true because of recent GPS collar data collected by some of the top bear biologist in the tri state area including bear biologist Adam Hammond right here in Georgia. 

These are Wild Life Management Areas. They are pieces of land specifically set aside to help encourage the population growth of plant and animal species. Of course they don't have trail cameras shoved up the *** of every bear but the department of natural resources has a much clearer and better picture of what goes on in these areas in comparison to the other areas of the national Forest. 

If anything the high harvest numbers should be encouraging for bear hunters! There plenty of bears harvested every year in both of these areas with no decline on the horizon. 


The DNR certainly are not all powerful gods that get it right every time but they know how to count bears. There are plenty of bears for us and the guys who run hounds. Don't lose any sleep guys.


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## jbogg (Oct 11, 2021)

I have no doubt that the DNR knows how to count bears, but how do you explain this year‘s harvest being less than half of the previous two years. I think that’s the definition of a decline.  At least that is what game check was showing as of this morning.  I really don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that the dog hunt is having an impact on bear numbers on those two WMAs. I guess we will know for sure when the final tally is published


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## Corleone85 (Oct 11, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I have no doubt that the DNR knows how to count bears, but how do you explain this year‘s harvest being less than half of the previous two years. At least that is what game check was showing as of this morning.  I really don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that the dog hunt is having an impact on bear numbers on those two WMAs. I guess we will know for sure when the final tally is published
> View attachment 1109160


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## Corleone85 (Oct 11, 2021)

I will agree that we should let the final tally be counted. Until then it's premature to assume either one of us is correct. Can we agree on that?


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## jbogg (Oct 11, 2021)

Corleone85 said:


> I will agree that we should let the final tally be counted. Until then it's premature to assume either one of us is correct. Can we agree on that?



Welcome to the bear forum!  @EyesUp83 was simply asking if it made sense to hunt either of those WMAs  during any of the rifle hunts following the dog hunt.  I think we can count on one hand the number of bears killed on the rifle hunts following the dog hunt during the past two seasons on both Chestatee and Chattahoochee combined.  Point being, if it is bear he is seeking then he would probably be better served hunting somewhere other than these two WMAs for the remainder of the season.


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## ddd-shooter (Oct 12, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I have no doubt that the DNR knows how to count bears, but how do you explain this year‘s harvest being less than half of the previous two years. I think that’s the definition of a decline.  At least that is what game check was showing as of this morning.  I really don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that the dog hunt is having an impact on bear numbers on those two WMAs. I guess we will know for sure when the final tally is published
> View attachment 1109160


Also, it flat out rained ALL week during the hunt. That will impact number of hunters and their success as well. I’m not saying it’s either/or, but certainly both have their place in the discussion.


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## Joe Brandon (Oct 12, 2021)

Let’s all keep in mind two that there was only 2 good days of hunting that week. It rained hard all week.


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## jbogg (Oct 12, 2021)

ddd-shooter said:


> Also, it flat out rained ALL week during the hunt. That will impact number of hunters and their success as well. I’m not saying it’s either/or, but certainly both have their place in the discussion.



I agree, the rain is definitely a consideration. The latest rumors I am hearing this morning suggest the final tally is a good bit more than what was shown on game check yesterday, but still lower than the past two seasons. My feeling is that there is likely a substantial short term impact on bear populations on those two management area as evidenced by the rifle hunt harvest numbers following each of the dog hunts, but a much less significant impact in the long term since the Bears are clearly filling back in over the course of the year following the dog hunt.  I’m actually relieved to learn this, and glad there is space for everybody. I definitely appreciate the DNR moving the dog  hunt back a little bit.


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## EyesUp83 (Oct 12, 2021)

Hey Fellas. 


jbogg said:


> Welcome to the bear forum!  @EyesUp83 was simply asking if it made sense to hunt either of those WMAs  during any of the rifle hunts following the dog hunt.  I think we can count on one hand the number of bears killed on the rifle hunts following the dog hunt during the past two seasons on both Chestatee and Chattahoochee combined.  Point being, if it is bear he is seeking then he would probably be better served hunting somewhere other than these two WMAs for the remainder of the season.



Yes, @jbogg  has been correct in the scope of my post. It is good to see that over the course of the 11-12 months following the dog hunts the bears migrate back in. Unfortunately, the numbers are also showing that to hunt for bear on either of these two WMA's post-dog hunt has a very very slim chance of being productive. 
  As somebody who gets excited about bear hunting north Georgia its good to see that our numbers are strong as a whole. However, when it comes to numbers on these WMA's, well ya'll see my point. I just think it stinks because I used to look forward to hunting Chestatee specifically and I just won't go there anymore unless I can manage the early rifle hunt.

  I'm looking forward to seeing the numbers again this year and after (what I assume will be) a full 5 years to get a bigger picture of impact.


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## chrislibby88 (Oct 13, 2021)

EyesUp83 said:


> Hey Fellas.
> 
> 
> Yes, @jbogg  has been correct in the scope of my post. It is good to see that over the course of the 11-12 months following the dog hunts the bears migrate back in. Unfortunately, the numbers are also showing that to hunt for bear on either of these two WMA's post-dog hunt has a very very slim chance of being productive.
> ...


Hunt the national forest around chestatee and hooch. No real perk to hunting a WMA specifically for bear other than the early hunts. National forest follows general seasons too rather than only opening for firearms for a few days twice a year.


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## EyesUp83 (Oct 14, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> Hunt the national forest around chestatee and hooch. No real perk to hunting a WMA specifically for bear other than the early hunts. National forest follows general seasons too rather than only opening for firearms for a few days twice a year.


I am looking for a couple NF locations to hunt for long weekend coming up soon. I haven't managed to get my hands on a 2021 NF map yet so not sure where I'll end up.


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## splatek (Oct 14, 2021)

Seems like the data for public lands is dominated by female harvests as much as 65%
Private land the opposite. 
Overall 186 dead bears (that have been reported) and 53% female, as of game check today. 
@EyesUp83 get you an electronic map - iPhone/phone app or GPS - it'll tell you were the NF is, where the WMA boundaries are, shoot, even GA DNR website interactive maps do that I think, but I can't ever get internet in the woods. 

It would be great if the DNR could/would share this collar data with some of the hunting community. Sort of what we pay for, I think. I would be interested to see actual data instead of just taking someone's word for it. Plus, as a scientist, I would like to do some states if the data allow it.


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## Heath (Oct 14, 2021)

splatek said:


> Seems like the data for public lands is dominated by female harvests as much as 65%
> Private land the opposite.
> Overall 186 dead bears (that have been reported) and 53% female, as of game check today.
> @EyesUp83 get you an electronic map - iPhone/phone app or GPS - it'll tell you were the NF is, where the WMA boundaries are, shoot, even GA DNR website interactive maps do that I think, but I can't ever get internet in the woods.
> ...



It will be published when the project is complete.


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## Corleone85 (Oct 14, 2021)

Heath said:


> It will be published when the project is complete.


?


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## jbogg (Oct 14, 2021)

Heath said:


> It will be published when the project is complete.



Where’ve you been Heath?  Did you get to participate in the Dog Hunt?


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## Heath (Oct 15, 2021)

Nope, didn’t get to hunt it this year.  The way I understood her was that she would complete her research project after next years hunt.  I don’t think she meant this years.  She said she would have it completed and hopefully published shortly thereafter.  There were 35 killed as far as I know.  Day 3 and 4 were wash outs and last year those were the 2 days that kill numbers jumped drastically.  Only 12 of the 15 groups showed to hunt from what I’ve heard.  There’s more to the numbers than what some would like to believe.  I’ve heard multiple groups treed 15-20 bear but only let some youngsters kill a few small ones as that was mostly what was being caught.  I know there was one 394lb boar killed that was collared.  Point being,  the bear were there.  Maybe we just had groups that were more selective in what they killed now that they were only allowed 5 bear instead of 20.


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## splatek (Oct 15, 2021)

Heath said:


> Nope, didn’t get to hunt it this year.  The way I understood her was that she would complete her research project after next years hunt.  I don’t think she meant this years.  She said she would have it completed and hopefully published shortly thereafter.  There were 35 killed as far as I know.  Day 3 and 4 were wash outs and last year those were the 2 days that kill numbers jumped drastically.  Only 12 of the 15 groups showed to hunt from what I’ve heard.  There’s more to the numbers than what some would like to believe.  I’ve heard multiple groups treed 15-20 bear but only let some youngsters kill a few small ones as that was mostly what was being caught.  I know there was one 394lb boar killed that was collared.  Point being,  the bear were there.  Maybe we just had groups that were more selective in what they killed now that they were only allowed 5 bear instead of 20.



That sounds like a reasonable analysis. I wasn't aware that they had reduced the limit. 
Thanks for the insight.


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## Heath (Oct 16, 2021)

Splatek,  at the meeting with DNR and Biologists we were all in unanimous agreement that the tags be dropped from 20 to 5 as we felt certain that decision would cut down harvest numbers.  Goal achieved, with a little help from Mother Nature and human nature.

The goal was not to harvest a bunch of bear.  It was to study the interactions of bear and dogs when using that method.  They ramped up the collared bear by almost double this year because they were not getting enough information.  Total bear harvest for the state was no more than usual and Adam Hammond said his nuisance complaint load hadn’t changed at all.  The only 2 groups I knew that hunted this year treed 40+ bear combined.  Didn’t sound at all like numbers were lower by any account I heard.  They did say since they only had 5 tags they were letting kids shoot and other people that wanted a first bear.


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## jbogg (Oct 16, 2021)

Heath said:


> Splatek,  at the meeting with DNR and Biologists we were all in unanimous agreement that the tags be dropped from 20 to 5 as we felt certain that decision would cut down harvest numbers.  Goal achieved, with a little help from Mother Nature and human nature.
> 
> The goal was not to harvest a bunch of bear.  It was to study the interactions of bear and dogs when using that method.  They ramped up the collared bear by almost double this year because they were not getting enough information.  Total bear harvest for the state was no more than usual and Adam Hammond said his nuisance complaint load hadn’t changed at all.  The only 2 groups I knew that hunted this year treed 40+ bear combined.  Didn’t sound at all like numbers were lower by any account I heard.  They did say since they only had 5 tags they were letting kids shoot and other people that wanted a first bear.



My initial issue with the dog hunt had to do with the timing of it.  I will admit that it appears I was wrong about the long term impact of the hunt as the bears are filling back in to that space over the course of the year.  The short term impact is more significant though, as I am not aware of any Bear harvested on any of the rifle hunts following the dog hunts on either WMA.  I don’t have a problem with that, and it’s to be expected, but if someone is looking for a late season bear their time is likely better spent elsewhere.


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## chrislibby88 (Oct 17, 2021)

jbogg said:


> My initial issue with the dog hunt had to do with the timing of it.  I will admit that it appears I was wrong about the long term impact of the hunt as the bears are filling back in to that space over the course of the year.  The short term impact is more significant though, as I am not aware of any Bear harvested on any of the rifle hunts following the dog hunts on either WMA.  I don’t have a problem with that, and it’s to be expected, but if someone is looking for a late season bear their time is likely better spent elsewhere.


I know for a fact at least one bear was killed on the Chestatee December hunt two or three years ago after they did the dog hunt. That’s the only one I know about.


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## Heath (Oct 17, 2021)

Yes, there was one killed after the hunt on Chestatee.  Small world ain’t it.


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## Heath (Oct 17, 2021)

If you’ll take your prejudice cap off and put on your thinking cap you would see that bear are notoriously sparsely killed the later winter gets.  Actually, few bear are ever killed after October.  There is always a surge late October into early November in kills.  That is not a reflection of bear, it is a reflection of the exponential increase of hunter numbers when gun season opens the second half of October.


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## splatek (Oct 17, 2021)

Heath said:


> Splatek,  at the meeting with DNR and Biologists we were all in unanimous agreement that the tags be dropped from 20 to 5 as we felt certain that decision would cut down harvest numbers.  Goal achieved, with a little help from Mother Nature and human nature.
> 
> The goal was not to harvest a bunch of bear.  It was to study the interactions of bear and dogs when using that method.  They ramped up the collared bear by almost double this year because they were not getting enough information.  Total bear harvest for the state was no more than usual and Adam Hammond said his nuisance complaint load hadn’t changed at all.  The only 2 groups I knew that hunted this year treed 40+ bear combined.  Didn’t sound at all like numbers were lower by any account I heard.  They did say since they only had 5 tags they were letting kids shoot and other people that wanted a first bear.



@Heath thanks man. 
That's a good analysis. I am glad to hear that the groups were letting newbies and kids hunt. I like that. 
Sounds like bears are bears and are here to stay, no matter what happens - 
I am not that good of a bear hunter, yet, but I am trying. The data and Adam's correspondence, coupled with this forum has helped me learn a lot. 
I bet there is a lot to be learned following a dog around that's for sure and those kids are lucky to have had that experience. 

As for late season, I tend to agree with a bunch of you - rifle season opens, more hunters, more pressure, possibly less game to be seen after that pressure impacts the animals. That being said I had bears moving on cams late into last season, so weather, or lack there of cold weather must play a little role. 

Anyhow, looks like we are all getting along again... at the end of the day, we are all bear hunters.


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## jbogg (Oct 17, 2021)

Heath said:


> If you’ll take your prejudice cap off and put on your thinking cap you would see that bear are notoriously sparsely killed the later winter gets.  Actually, few bear are ever killed after October.  There is always a surge late October into early November in kills.  That is not a reflection of bear, it is a reflection of the exponential increase of hunter numbers when gun season opens the second half of October.



Dang, I forgot that I was wearing my prejudice hat.  Thank you for finally resurfacing and pointing that out.  Seriously, every disagreement doesn’t have to be personal.


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## Heath (Oct 17, 2021)

Definitely not personal Jbogg.  I didn’t mean that in a negative way.  We all have opinions and I’m well aware of where you stand as you are where I stand.  I was trying to point out that bears are easier to kill early and get increasingly harder as the season changes.  We’ve ran those same bear on NF land for years and years for an entire month before bow season and harvest numbers are actually higher now than they were before we were allowed a training season.  I would guess that’s because we have a large and ever growing bear population that is not being set back enough by harvest numbers to overcome yearly recruitment.  I believed a lot of the same things you are saying early in my life.  So I poke at you a little because I know your mindset as I once felt similarly.


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## jbogg (Oct 17, 2021)

Heath said:


> Definitely not personal Jbogg.  I didn’t mean that in a negative way.  We all have opinions and I’m well aware of where you stand as you are where I stand.  I was trying to point out that bears are easier to kill early and get increasingly harder as the season changes.  We’ve ran those same bear on NF land for years and years for an entire month before bow season and harvest numbers are actually higher now than they were before we were allowed a training season.  I would guess that’s because we have a large and ever growing bear population that is not being set back enough by harvest numbers to overcome yearly recruitment.  I believed a lot of the same things you are saying early in my life.  So I poke at you a little because I know your mindset as I once felt similarly.



No worries, and I’m not really disagreeing with you. One thing that we can all agree on, and that is beyond debate is the fact that October is the peak of hyperphagia for the Bears in our mountains. They are on their feet feeding for more hours a day than any other time of year. Yet with all that feeding activity there has been very little in the way of bear harvest during the late October rifle hunt on Chattahoochee WMA for the past two seasons. I can only draw the conclusion that the Bears have not filtered back in to the WMA at that point so soon after the dog hunt. A month after that and the sows are starting to den, so  I agree with you and understand why the late season bear harvest numbers are much lower than early-season.

I’m glad guys are getting to hunt their hounds, and would probably really enjoy hearing a chase one day.  Just not in my neighborhood.?


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## chrislibby88 (Oct 18, 2021)

splatek said:


> @Heath thanks man.
> That's a good analysis. I am glad to hear that the groups were letting newbies and kids hunt. I like that.
> Sounds like bears are bears and are here to stay, no matter what happens -
> I am not that good of a bear hunter, yet, but I am trying. The data and Adam's correspondence, coupled with this forum has helped me learn a lot.
> ...


I think that camera activity last year was more related to the abundance of mass late season that the temps. We had a super dump of reds and mountain oaks last year. It’s looking pretty similar this year, so late season could be pretty interesting this year too. I’m sure they lay up way earlier on those bad mast year regardless of temperature.


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## GAoutdoor (Oct 19, 2021)

chrislibby88 said:


> I think that camera activity last year was more related to the abundance of mass late season that the temps. We had a super dump of reds and mountain oaks last year. It’s looking pretty similar this year, so late season could be pretty interesting this year too. I’m sure they lay up way earlier on those bad mast year regardless of temperature.


For us newbies, when is late season? At what point does the likelihood of seeing bear drop so as to not be worth the effort in going specifically for them (as opposed to deer)?


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## jbogg (Oct 19, 2021)

GAoutdoor said:


> For us newbies, when is late season? At what point does the likelihood of seeing bear drop so as to not be worth the effort in going specifically for them (as opposed to deer)?



Hyperphagia is occurring right now, and the Bears will be feeding like crazy for the next 4 to 6 weeks. After that the pregnant Sows will start thinking about Denning, but guys kill bears well into December every year. However, hyperphagia this year is also coinciding with another year with tons of mast production. The bears are not having to travel far to find acorns.  It always comes down to just finding where they are feeding at the moment. Once you do your chances are good.


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## GAoutdoor (Oct 19, 2021)

jbogg said:


> Hyperphagia is occurring right now, and the Bears will be feeding like crazy for the next 4 to 6 weeks. After that the pregnant Sows will start thinking about Denning, but guys kill bears well into December every year. However, hyperphagia this year is also coinciding with another year with tons of mast production. The bears are not having to travel far to find acorns.  It always comes down to just finding where they are feeding at the moment. Once you do your chances are good.


Thanks for the info. Is it still best to stay on the ridge tops, or should I be dipping down to the creeks as well (assuming there are food sources)?


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## jbogg (Oct 19, 2021)

GAoutdoor said:


> Thanks for the info. Is it still best to stay on the ridge tops, or should I be dipping down to the creeks as well (assuming there are food sources)?



I would hunt where ever you find the feeding sign.  I have typically stayed away from creek bottoms since the wind tends to swirl more down in some of those drains.


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## GAoutdoor (Oct 19, 2021)

jbogg said:


> I would hunt where ever you find the feeding sign.  I have typically stayed away from creek bottoms since the wind tends to swirl more down in some of those drains.


Another good point on the wind!


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