# traditions 1858 new army ss 44cal revolver



## crazyjigr (Jan 23, 2012)

Just picked one up and cant wait to shoot it. Any advice y'all have is greatly appreciated.  
Powder type?
Load ammount?
Primer?
patch?
lead?
What kind of range does it have?
I plan on carrying for the shots I cant make with a bow and also just shoot for fun.
Again any and all input is greatly appreciated.
J L
8  inch barrel


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 23, 2012)

I prefer real black powder in the FFFg size but I have shot Pyrodex in the rifle size and have used FFg as well. I haven't tried triple 7 yet but they claim it is a bit hotter and to adjust load accordingly.

For load size I tend to follow what the manual says HOWEVER I have found that the newer manuals list less powder than earlier manuals. My Ruger Old Army manual states that I can use as much of any granulation as will allow a ball to seat below the surface of the "chamber". Many people report that 22 grains is their most accurate load. (I have used more but haven't worked out the most accurate load in my revolvers) The online manual says that min is 22 grains and 30 is max and it says to use a .454 ball. The guys I hear from, that claim to really know, say they slug the barrel and then ream the chamber a couple thou over that and then use a ball a few thou larger.  I have heard of fellas who load like 15 grains of powder then what is known as an over powder card then like 8 grains of grits or cream of wheat then the lubed wad and then the ball. The reason is apparently they get better accuracy if the ball is just below the surface of the chamber but not if they load that amount of powder, the cream of wheat or grits is just a filler. What ever load you use it is very important to make sure that the ball is seated firm enough to compress the powder just a bit which is why they use a filler, the over powder wad prevents powder and filler from mixing and causing an incomplete burn. Generally correct ball size for the chamber will shave a complete ring off the ball when ramming.

I use the magnum #11 but have used the standard #11 and if I had found #10 I would try them. You need the cap size that fits YOUR nipple best so as to lessen the chance of a chain fire. Many people believe it is a loose cap that causes chain fire and not fire sneaking around the lead ball that causes most chain fires. I dunno and can not say BUT the one time I did not use a grease or wad I had a chain fire.

No patch is used in a revolver but you may elect to use a lubed wad between ball and powder to help prevent chain fires or grease over the ball (crisco works but is a bit messy). One guy I know of uses both a lubed wad and grease over the ball, he refers to it as the belt and susspenders method.

Can't really say at what range it still has the power to kill deer or hog but some guys have used similar handguns out to 30 yards to do so.

In my opinion one really should find someone who shoots cap n ball revolvers and allow them to show you the ins and outs. No telling what I may forget to mention online that only occurs to me in the process of loading. 

Just the same one can generally carefully read the manual and go it alone (I did).

For hunting I intend to use a max load at the range I can still hit the bottom of a coke can or 25 yards max. I have carried a revolver but haven't gotten a shot at a deer with it yet. AND I really really need to hit the range before I try again.


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## Bobby38ark (Jan 23, 2012)

Hello, I have that exact same revolver and what I use is Goex FFFg black powder only.  I load anywhere from 22-35 grains, if you bought the accessory kit that came with it.  Take you powder holder and place you finger over the end, shake it until it is full and load it into the cylinder, that is 25 grains (works well).  Then I place the wad over that and then add the .454 lead ball and then put some grease over it to keep from chain firing.  I have shot mine out to 100 yards using 35 grains, but would not use any more than that, it is fairly accurate and will hit within a 8 inch area every time, closer if you are not as shaky as I am.  I do not personally use Pyrodex pellets, but they sale them for pistols (30 grain), I know at Bass Pro.  I just assume stick to the black powder only.  Any questions, feel free to PM me and I will help you out the best I can.


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## crazyjigr (Jan 23, 2012)

Thank y'all so much for the advice.
manual says 12-15 grains of fffg????
I only bought the revolver and plan on going to the Bass pro in duluth to p/u what I need.
Here is my shopping list:
-Tripple 7 powder fffg (how much should I start with?
-454 balls
-triple 7 magnum percusion caps #11
-lubed wads ( I think they have them)
Is a lead ball the only option for progectile's? 
Manual say to only load 5 cyl leaving 1 empty, I plan on starting out loading and shooting a cyl at a time until I get the hang of it.
Thanks,
J L


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah the online manual for the 1858 my son has says that as well. We have used more... in fact we sometimes load it with as much powder as will fit and still get a wad and the ball below the surface of the cylinder. I believe that is close to 35 grains.

Well get at least one can, I still prefer real black powder... if you don't have a volumetric black powder measure, get one. I have this one....  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/71...in-5-grain-increments-clear-polymer-and-brass

You might want to also get some .457 balls. My ROA wants .457 and my sons 1858 seems to run fine with .454 so you should be ok with just the .454.

There are some other projectiles out there but finding what works with your firearm will be trial an error. The issue is having them go into the chamber exactly straight.

I have some of these but haven't tried em yet.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...=3631&osCsid=8c098e9be68379939a28949c87eeb01e

This guy sells some that should work as well. Some of the cowboy action shooters use them I believe. At least that is what they were supposedly developed for.

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

If you check out the EPP UG 155gr and the lite 45 165 gr and the DD ROA 210 you will see that they are rebated on the bottom to direct the bullet straight into the chamber. The DD ROA are intended for use in the Ruger Old Army but the newest version is double rebated to also work in others.

This guy has molds if you prefer to cast your own and will sell a sample pack so you can determine which one works correctly.

http://www.biglube.com/

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=09d6fdda-c105-4c87-b269-68ebfdaba982     Notice the double rebate I mentioned.

I haven't tried any of them myself so take it with a grain of salt.

Loading only 5 chambers is the norm with old style single action revolvers since if the hammer rests on a loaded chamber it can go BOOM quite easily. I generally load only 5 when I intend to carry and load all 6 when at the range.

IF you decide to mold your own beware that you should only use pure lead. They need to be soft enough to shave that ring else you might ruin the handgun trying to ram them home.

The triple 7 and caps you can sometimes find at Wal Mart, but you wont find anything else there except some bore butter. Bass Pro has real black powder or did last time I checked

You got a good place to shoot nearby? I am willing to come and show you what I know.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 24, 2012)

Bobby and my son have the same gun. I don't think my son has gone over 20 grains of Pyrodex P. We use regular #11 caps and .454 round ball. You might want to get or make a loading stand. It will save you a lot of time and trouble. My son can load all six in under 5 minutes.
The gun is crazy accurate and a lot of fun.
Dixie Gun Works is a great on-line supplier. Deercreek Guns in Marietta has a lot of supplies including a good holster for about $25 made locally.
#1 bit of advice: enjoy it!!


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 24, 2012)

Desert I agree! Best advice EVER!


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## Bobby38ark (Jan 24, 2012)

I have the manual that came with it, it recommends 12-15 grains, but it also says max should be no more than 35.  I have shot 35 with no problem and I use the #10 caps, forgot to mention that earlier.  Mine is really accurate at 75 yards with these loads.  I would not recomment using anything other than the balls though.  You risk danger to yourself and the pistol using shaped bullets.  I also load all six cylinders, it isn't going to go off unless you put the caps on there. Have carried mine for weeks preloaded, without the caps.  Also the 1858 has notches between the cylinders to act as safety.  I can hand load mine from start to finish in less than 3 minutes.  I always use grease on the end after the ball too, lubes the cylinders and makes for easier clean-up actually.  You can look for an earlier post by me, I uploaded the manual where it says you can use up to 35 with black powder and 28 with Pyrodex powder.  Just some more input, as I thoroughly enjoy shooting mine.


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## Bobby38ark (Jan 24, 2012)

Ya'll can pm me your email address and I will send you the upload of my actual manual that says what it is safe to shoot and what it recommends


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 25, 2012)

Care to explain how one risks damage by using projectiles made for the gun? People been using conicals for decades in cap n ball revolvers.

I'd love to see that manual.


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## crazyjigr (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank y'all very much I appreciate all the advice and help.
I put a hurt'n on a $100 bill and believe I have what I need to get this going.
777 fffg, volumetric measure,cap holder,777 #11 magnum caps, lubed wads, 454 balls, and a little crisco from the cupboard.
Q- the manual says 12-15 grains I'm assuming that is a by weight measure of black powder, triple 7 recommends 35 grains by volume measure.
I will post results and some pictures
I'm going to deercreek to have a look at the holster today too, thanks for the advice


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 25, 2012)

Ok the measure is volumetric indeed BUT it is calibrated to throw that amount by weight of BLACK POWDER. Normally FFg powder and the measures are not super accurate like a scale would be. Black powder is forgiving in that respect that a couple grains this way or that wont blow up something like smokeless CAN.

I believe mine throws 74 grains when set to throw 70 but to be exactly honest I would have to check that again with my scale.

The black powder subs.. pyrodex, trip 7 and others are engineered to throw equivilent loads by volume. They wont be to weight and I'd have to look em up to calculate what their specific gravity to black powder equates as it relates to volume vs weight. I always figured if I wanted to throw a sub by weight I would first use the volumetric measure to find the best load for my revolver then weigh that and use my scale to throw loads to that weight. In fact I did that for my speed loader hunting loads.

Hope your capper works with that revolver many of them don't... if it dont I might be able to show you how to make it work.

Follow the FIREARM manual and just be sure to throw a large enough load either by volume of powder or by adding some filler (corn meal or grits or cream o wheat works) on top of the wad to make sure you have the load tight to the powder.

Yeah I can see you did put a hurtin on a C note.


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## Supercracker (Jan 25, 2012)

Also, when it warms up a bit you will find that the crisco makes a big mess everywhere if you plan on leaving it loaded. 

I seal mine off with real stiff Lard/beeswax mix.  I don't know the ratios, I just kept playing with it til it stayed solid in the car, in the summer, in Florida. But when fired it works just as good as the thinner lubes. I leave mine loaded for weeks and weeks at a time between firings and have never had a problem.


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## d-a (Jan 25, 2012)

Don't worry about the chain fires, it will just give you more chances to hit the target. Lol

d-a


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## Desert Rat (Jan 25, 2012)

The TC straight capper that holds 15 caps seems to work fine for my son. Not sure how he does it but it works for him. When you get down to it, he's managed more rounds through his 1858 than I have through my Hawken. Come think of if, I have nearly as many through the M1 as I do the Hawken and I got the M1 last Saturday so it's only been out once!
Oh well, it was chore getting the Hawken cleaned up. It's working good now.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 25, 2012)

I got some Buffalo Ball-ets for the Hawken. I'm really not satisfied with them. They are too loose. Guess I need to try my thinnest patch with them. My son was messing with one and it dropped right down in his cylinder. The air compressor blew it out no problem.


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## Supercracker (Jan 25, 2012)

Desert Rat said:


> I need to try my thinnest patch with them.



or paper patch


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 25, 2012)

Meh I dont find cleanin my revolver a "chore". I simply strip it down as far as I feel like it and put most of those parts in the kitchen sink, add a few drops of dishwashin liquid and run hot water to cover. (don't really need the dishwashin liquid nor hot water to be honest) Let that sit a few minutes to soak and while that is goin on I take a cup or so of that water and some patches and a toothbrush and go at the parts I din't tear down. Then I hit those parts in the sink and when everything is clean I use bore butter and burnish everything with it. Some folks like a different lube but I have no issues with the bore butter and in fact would use crisco or sweet oil (olive oil).

Petroleum products and black powder fouling do not get along and I avoid mixin them.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 25, 2012)

Supercracker said:


> or paper patch



True dat. In fact, I may have some parchment around.

I can't believe that in 4 months we've gone from having a single .22 for years to the wild assortment we have now. We pretty much cover 1820 to 1990.


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## Bobby38ark (Jan 25, 2012)

I was using a capper and found it just as easy to do by hand.  I also clean mine the same way and then use a light coat of bore butter to keep it looking nice.  Nice hobby we have here.  I posted a pic of mine and the powder page if anyone needs it and feel free to pass it along to anyone who may need it.


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## crazyjigr (Jan 26, 2012)

Here it is haven't shot it yet.
Needing a holster and maybe an extra cylinder


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 26, 2012)

Some cappers will work just fine and some wont.. as I said I can probably tell you what to do if your capper wont work it is a very minor adjustment on most of them and some just wont work at all.

I believe ours work ok so I aint never adjusted em. Ours will allow the flippin caps to turn over so they aint much count anyway...plus I generally need to pinch my caps to ensure they stay put.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 26, 2012)

tv_racin_fan said:


> ...plus I generally need to pinch my caps to ensure they stay put.



My son doesn't clean the outside of the nipples. Been a while since he dropped a cap.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 26, 2012)

To each his own I suppose. I think mine might run better with #10s but Wal Mart aint got em..

Just the same it aint about droppin a cap as to if the inline capper you buy will work or not. At least some of them out there are to long in the nose to get the cap on the nipple. Tis simple to file the nose and even the spring that holds the cap in place down so that they will work on SOME of them. Some you can't do that because the spring then wont hold the cap under movement. Kinda bad to reach in your possibles bag grab your capper and find that it aint got no cap in it and all the ones that were in it are now all over your bag or down in that tiny pocket your capper goes in. Some revolvers got the caps down in such that it is hard to get caps on em at all. Just depends on what ya got.


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## Supercracker (Jan 27, 2012)

On my Navy I took the nipples and roughed up the top half of the outsid a little bit with emery paper. It seems to hang on to the caps better after that. 

I also lower the hammer onto the cap and press it down a little bit after I put the caps on to help them get fully seated on the nipple. Made a world of difference. I keep mine and a spare cylinder in the console of my truck constantly. So it gets bumped around a bunch and I can't remember the last time I picked it up and was missing a cap.


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## tv_racin_fan (Jan 27, 2012)

Super I just give mine a lil pinch. I also do the hammer thing to seat em. Ain't lost a cap yet either. I have had a chain fire tho...

Took my ROA to a WMA range and forgot something to seat the caps with. I wasn't about to do it with the hammer and have the range master run me off so some times I would pull the trigger and the hammer would fall and seat the cap...tweren't no biggie to me BUT I let that range master shoot it.. he didn't care for that aspect.. I simply told him that was MY fault to not bring something to do that with. I coulda done it with the hammer and maybe not been seen as doing something unsafe or I coulda used a METAL object but I didn't want to risk getting tossed off the range after driving over an hour to get there.


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## crazyjigr (Jan 27, 2012)

Shot it today very pleased 
35 grains 777, #11 caps fit well,


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## Bobby38ark (Jan 28, 2012)

Yeah, like I said 35 is great, especially when going hunting, glad you enjoyed it. If you are just target shooting, you can drop down to 25 and get used to wear you are hitting so that you do not use as much black powder,  I use #10 caps like I said, and they seem to fit and work fine. Just a suggestion to save you a little $$$$$.  Glad you enjoyed it, I know I do mine every time I fire it.  Go shoot some more.


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## Desert Rat (Jan 30, 2012)

Saturday got the Hawken scraping a 1" dot at 50 yards. Put a round from the M1 through said dot. My son was dealing death to paper prairie dogs with the 1858 at 10 and 25 yards. Everybody had fun with the .22.
Not a bad day.


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## crazyjigr (Jan 30, 2012)

Next outing will do a 20,30,40,50 yard shoot to get the powder charge and gun dialed in.


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## Desert Rat (Feb 7, 2012)

Sunday my son got 4 rounds out of 6 on the target at 50 yards.
OK, given the length of his arms, 48 yards.


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## Bobby38ark (Mar 31, 2012)

Had eye surgery this week and even with blurred, double vision.  I went out and put about 30 rounds through the 1858 at 25 and 50 yards and kept them pretty close to an inch with 25 and 30 as my loads, sure missed it.  About 50 rounds through the Ruger 9 as well.  Enjoyable day. Now to get my eyes healed so I can go get these turkeys I have been seeing the last couple weeks with the 835.


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## Bobby38ark (Mar 31, 2012)

By the way, the manufacturer recommends not using the shaped rounds and only balls with the 1858, because they may not line up correctly to go down the barrel and could cause a jam or explosion.  Google it, several on the web.


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## Redleaf (May 18, 2012)

Nobody mentioned that chainfires can start at the back end,  and IMO,   that makes more sense than a spark getting past the ball which should actually shave when seated giving a very tight seal.  Here's a discussion on that subject:   http://www.shootersforum.com/muzzleloaders/62646-chain-fire-question.html


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## dawg2 (May 18, 2012)

I have that same revolver in Brass frame/blued steel I put together from a kit.  Fun pistol.  One other thing I did not see mentioned:

Do NOT dry fire.  You will smash the nipples and you will be buying new ones.


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