# Coordinate Thieves



## notnksnemor (Jan 26, 2008)

All charter captains and most serious saltwater fisherman protect their gps/Loran coordinates with a passion.
What are some of the tactics people have used to get your locations and what have you done to protect them?

I fished with a charter capt. out of Ft. Pierce Fl. once and people followed us all the way from the dock.
He gave us an extra couple of hours of fishing so he could go anchor on dead bottom for awhile. I bet there was 10 boats come by, slow down, push their buttons and then leave. 
After the parade was over, we went fishing.

Rick


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## jamessig (Jan 26, 2008)

Nothing is secret. If a boat has radar they can mark any other boats location within radar range.


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## captbrian (Jan 26, 2008)

jamessig said:


> Nothing is secret. If a boat has radar they can mark any other boats location within radar range.



not just any radar can do that, but almost all of the newer units have that feature.  some are more accurate than others, and range is the key.  with some of the higher end units, withing 4 miles and you've been had.


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## potsticker (Jan 26, 2008)

I dont know bout boats following guides, but we have seen capt. catch fishermen they guided, with gps, and they just normally just toss the gps overboard, these folks spent their lives building those numbers.


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## notnksnemor (Jan 26, 2008)

potsticker said:


> I dont know bout boats following guides, but we have seen capt. catch fishermen they guided, with gps, and they just normally just toss the gps overboard, these folks spent their lives building those numbers.



Thanks potsticker,
That's mainly what I was talking about. I know Capt's that have put in hundreds of hours and dollars building a reef. 
From my experience they don't take kindly to the weekend fisherman that hires a guide one day, then tries to fish his spots for the remainder of the time they have to spend. 
Not trying to start a fuss...just curious of peoples opinions.
I have seen the "boat following" on more than one occasion, just not as bad as the one mentioned.
Fished for Kings with a Capt. out of Port Canaveral that wouldn't let you look at his electronics while he was underway.


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## crackerdave (Jan 26, 2008)

My ol' daddy almost got his GPS thrown overboard,and him with it,by an irate captain.


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## Parker Phoenix (Jan 26, 2008)

I have had them come up on me asking if we had caught any fish, all the while hearing them punch the number we were on into their GPS. Some folks have stones.


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## maconducks (Jan 26, 2008)

hey parker, can i get those #'s....


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## Parker Phoenix (Jan 26, 2008)

maconducks said:


> hey parker, can i get those #'s....



Better yet, just go with me sometimes, I need someone to pull the anchor.....LOL....


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## DBM78 (Jan 26, 2008)

everybody uses the rader and gps to make spots


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## j_seph (Jan 26, 2008)

I can understand that these and all captains have put a lot of time in there fishing holes and have much respect for them. However when it really comes down to it, the captains/guides do not own the reef/spot. In reality they have put the reef/structure into my water and everyone elses water. I have been out with a guide on Santee Cooper and actually punched the gps coordinates into my cell phone so as to find the place the next day for a tournament. If the guide would have came out there I would have probally pulled anchor and let him have the hole out of respect. Some folks hire guides for fish while others as myself will hire a guide more for the experience and to pick up more knowledge. To me its a learning experience and what use is it for me to pay $400 for 5-6hrs of fishing not to be able to use this knowledge.
Don't mean to step on any toes just my opinion


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## jamessig (Jan 27, 2008)

It's a numbers game. People that deploy artificial reefs understand that some will be accidentally discovered and some will be "stolen" and they tend to put out a bunch of reefs. If they have enough small reefs they will only fish them once a month and then only take four or five fish off any one at a time. If it's a large piece of structure they may take a few more. Fished that way, the reefs should always have keeper fish on them. They probably have several numbers that they only fish once a year during the rodeo or some other tournament. 
When another boat discovers an artificial reef or steals the numbers, there's a good probability that they will catch all the larger fish off it and it would take months or longer for it to produce keeper sized fish again. When the deployer discovers that there are no fish on it on his next visit, he'll move on to another one of his numbers. Of course he's not going to be happy about it and if enough of his numbers are found or stolen, time to put out some more reefs.


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## captbrian (Jan 27, 2008)

i put out about a dozen each year, and have been for the last 8 or so years.  even when i was living in ga, i would build places.  if some people only knew what kind of work and money really went into it.  i know as soon as they hit the water they're fair game, but that works both ways.  i'm not the only one doing it for sure, so it really does benefit me when others built places as well. when someone takes a reading from someone that built the place, they might as well have taken $500-1000 out of their pocket. 

 just this past season, i have ranover close to 1000 places.   50-80 good places, and about a dozen HOT places.  those aren't the only places i've found, just the readings i've checked. i will never check all the 'shows' i've ran over.   those of you that have been with me before know i'm constantly watching my bottom machine. i don't have $40,000 worth of electronics for nothing.  the best places are the ones you find.


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## t k (Jan 27, 2008)

Once a reef goes over the side of the boat it is  impossible to keep it private,it is public water.We have found some good spots while trolling from spot to spot that I am sure others have built.There is a big difference between stumbling across a spot while fishing versus zapping someone with a radar or pulling up to them while thier fishing and recording the numbers.It cost alot of money to put out a reef and the charter captains depend on thiers for a living.

 We anchored a couple miles out of the pass at panama city a few years ago to kingfish.We weren't marking anything on bottom,we were just killing time basically and chumming with some old bait we had.Within the first hour and a half we had three boats pull up and mark the spot and leave.The fourth boat that came by was a 29ft century cc that kept circling us and getting closer and closer trying to find what we were anchored over.I finally had yell at him when he crossed no more than twenty feet of our bow.It was kind of funny because we knew there was nothing there,but it makes you mad when you know what they are trying to do.


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## notnksnemor (Jan 27, 2008)

It's not just with offshore.
I inshore fish out of Steinhatchee quite a bit. It's comical to watch the boats come out the river and head for the first group of boats they see. Before long there will be 10 to 15 boats in an area. After a few minutes, you see them start to move off. I've been on good fish and had people come up full throttle, shut down and anchor 50 yards from me. Usually shuts the fish down pretty quick. 
I  know it's public water, I guess it's just a common courtesy thing.
What  I call "the  bino-boys" are a real hoot too.
They drift, watching other boats with binoculars. If they see somebody hookup, they're on their way.


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## kingfish (Jan 27, 2008)

I've never quite understood the thought process behind stealing someones spot.  I mean Steinhatchee is one giant grass flat and 6 miles out the rocks start.  To me, half the fun is finding my own spots.  How difficult is trolling 2 Stretch 30's.  Catch a fish, mark the spot, throw on the mask and fins, see what it looks like down there, write the numbers in the book.  Start trolling again.  You can catch kings in 10 feet of water when the bait is thick.  As far as trout and reds go, shallow oyster/rocks for the reds, and grass for the trout.  Late March until it gets hot, and late September until it gets cold on the flats are the best times.  Hope this helps.    Kingfish


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## notnksnemor (Jan 27, 2008)

I know what you mean Kingfish.
A couple of years ago I wathed a guy get his boat stuck in about 18 inches of water. 
By the time he got it out he had washed a pretty good hole in the bottom. I came back the next day at dead low tide and caught 4 good trout out of that hole. It finally silted back in. 
I'm always on the look out for any irregular bottom on that big flat.


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## Southbound (Feb 13, 2008)

radar is the key.... If everyone didnt fish out a number there would be plenty to go around. Most capt are good about this. They will cath a few and move to another number. However some will sit and catch every legal gilled creator at that location.  An ole man gave me advice once whil shrimping. He said "leave some to seed." I always try and follow that motto.


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## swamp hunter (Feb 14, 2008)

We like to throw a marker about 100 yards off the wreck, everybody already knows where it,s at , but as they pull up , they,ll all set up on the marker , and we,ll set up right on the wreck. keeps them off our butts.


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## stev (Feb 14, 2008)

I dont use radar,cause they can ping your spot.Then they got your numbers


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## Rackemup HC (Feb 15, 2008)

Back in the early 80's, my dad sunk a couple tug boats off of Marco Island to have a hot spot while chartering, well one of his customers somehow got the luran numbers, and now its listed on every chart in wal mart and bait store! Well atleast the guy was nice enough to put it as my dads wrecks!  (Bogans Barge #1 and #2)
I have heard of people getting #'s from the air too.


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## Gunshy (Feb 29, 2008)

*reef*

Whats involved in building a reef?


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## jamessig (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm not sure about the laws in Georgia, but in Florida there are all kinds of restrictions about the materials that can be used for making an artificial reef and locations where you can place them and they have to be inspected and permitted. Basically reefs are steel and/or concrete structures that stick up off the bottom and provide habitat for fish. Used chicken coops are fairly popular items used to make reefs. Just weld two together and drop. I don't remember the exact numbers but a reef the size of two chicken coops, about the size of a car, can produce hundreds of pounds of red snapper yearly. If you want to deploy your own reefs out of Pensacola, it can be done for about 500 hundred dollars each with  chicken coops. Of course then you take the same risks as anyone else who deploys reefs that your private spots will be discovered by others or stolen by radar when you fish them. Regulations in Alabama I think are less restrictive, but I wouldn't expect it to stay that way.

For more information.
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/fishingforum/Forum10-1.aspx


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## Ed in North Ga. (Mar 3, 2008)

a couple of the head boat skippers in Panama City claim to use anything steel they can fit on a barge- they build their reefs during the offseason- and as one captain told me, its "very expensive"- he says he`s sunk anything from old fridges to cars- and was very pointed in saying "enviromently safe stuff- all drained fluids/no crap"-

 When you get on eithers boat- the rule is simple- they catch you with GPS, you lose it- plain an simple. When they leave the dock- if anyones within 200 yards of them when they pull up to a spot, they go into "circle mode" big wide circles of up to a mile- if the boats stick with them, they anchor over dead water- plain an simple- for every minute you spend over dead water, they add it to the time-

 When I fished off the Keys, the smaller carft would always try to keep up with the bigger charters- but they were always hard pressed when the 30 footers would open up and leave them eating foam- I even saw a 14 foot john boat on the hump out of Islamorada once- they had went out with a 6hp motor- they were trolling behind any boat that was in the  troll circle- thats gutts.


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## swamp hunter (Mar 4, 2008)

Old shopping carts work real well, easy to carry , and good relief off the bottom. Sure is a pile of um down around Pavillion key south of Everglades city. And them big sow snook love um!


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## captbrian (Mar 4, 2008)

Ed in North Ga. said:


> a couple of the head boat skippers in Panama City claim to use anything steel they can fit on a barge- they build their reefs during the offseason- and as one captain told me, its "very expensive"- he says he`s sunk anything from old fridges to cars- and was very pointed in saying "enviromently safe stuff- all drained fluids/no crap"-
> 
> When you get on eithers boat- the rule is simple- they catch you with GPS, you lose it- plain an simple. When they leave the dock- if anyones within 200 yards of them when they pull up to a spot, they go into "circle mode" big wide circles of up to a mile- if the boats stick with them, they anchor over dead water- plain an simple- for every minute you spend over dead water, they add it to the time-
> 
> When I fished off the Keys, the smaller carft would always try to keep up with the bigger charters- but they were always hard pressed when the 30 footers would open up and leave them eating foam- I even saw a 14 foot john boat on the hump out of Islamorada once- they had went out with a 6hp motor- they were trolling behind any boat that was in the  troll circle- thats gutts.



good luck getting that to sink


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## Mako22 (Mar 4, 2008)

No one owns the water, if I get there first then to bad. No ones numbers are a secret anyway, everybody knows em.


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 5, 2008)

Smaller craft not being able to keep up with a charter. If your smaller boat cant outrun a charter boat, your boat has no business in the ocean. Unless the charter is running a CC with triples.
Most charter boats wont run over 35 knts full tilt and rarely will they go over 20knts to save fuel.


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## Southbound (Mar 7, 2008)

They need to take advantage of the tech as well. I wonder how many capt. use this tech themselves. Most Capt are jsut as bad about robbing numbers as anyone else. 
If they dont want that to happen, then they can buy thier own ocean to fish in.


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## whitworth (Mar 12, 2008)

*Sounds like Naval Warfare*

Any private submarines sinking any charter boats?

Walking the Plank-

The modern pirate on a Charter boat, operating a GPS.


Heck they do it on the Chattahoochee River.  They'll spot someone fishing a hole and reference it for later fishing trips.


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## SHMELTON (Mar 12, 2008)

I was on a snook trip out of Everglades city once, when we set out someone was following us, the guide tried to loose him several times, and couldn't shake him.  So, he ran over an oyster bed that he knew his boat could make it over, and the other boat couldn't.  5 hours later we came back boy and ol' boy was still sitting there.  My guide went up to him and asked if he needed help.  When he said yes, my guide told him he would send some one his way and to never follow a professional guide again.


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## mesocollins (Mar 20, 2008)

Hey, I have a 14' jon boat with a 6-horse evinrude... Could I hhave been sleep boating cause I don't remember doing that... :-o


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## fishhead (Mar 20, 2008)

I have a quick question for Capt. Brian. If I was out on a trip with you and wanted to learn a little about reading a depthfinder, would you be willing to help. I have no interest in GPS numbers, don't even know how to operate one. My one and only interest is to maybe take the info I learn and apply it to freshwater fishing someday, if I get a boat.


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## Bobhica (Mar 20, 2008)

*CaptBrian*



fishhead said:


> I have a quick question for Capt. Brian. If I was out on a trip with you and wanted to learn a little about reading a depthfinder, would you be willing to help. I have no interest in GPS numbers, don't even know how to operate one. My one and only interest is to maybe take the info I learn and apply it to freshwater fishing someday, if I get a boat.



I'm with Fishhead!  Let the experienced guys argue over numbers; I just want to get good knowledge of what my depth/fish finder is telling me!


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 20, 2008)

Anyone who can hold a bearing and judge distance can mark a spot that another boat is sitting on from 3/4 mile away. Ive found as many spots as ive had taken over the years. Kind -of a trading game of sorts. Even the almighty charter boats will often cruise by me and mark stuff if it isnt already in their machine.


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## titlewave (Mar 20, 2008)

*spots*

I have lucked into finding peoples spots and have had them come right up on me and try to fish , along side me . Then holler at me that i am on thier spot , when i was theer 30 minutes before they got there(plus once you give me 30 minutes on your spot there wont be a bit after word , so why fish there )I usally leave when i see any boat approching and never , ever anchor unless you want your location stole. 

The ocean is very large and i never understood people stacking on each other. I do know that i have gone 50 to 60 miles to fish a ridge and have boats there when i get there , but most natural bottom spots are shared anyway . This doesnt bother me , nor does stacking on a rig together. What i ask for is just a  little distance between me and the other boats so we dont tangle each other.

I can say i have had more than one charter guy or rec guy Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ----Edited to Remove TAC ---- me off while fishing and minding my own business offshore. I used to scream and yell and make their passengers cringe with all the flavor i could yell out about thier looser captian that follows rec boat to spots, but after a while i leaned just to ease off and leave them on sand. I have had to report a few crazy charters over the years , but i think the coast guard deos nothing to stop bad behavoir. Some people are just down right dangerous and have actuall trying ramming and or sending giant wakes into while anchored. Those days are over for me as i leave before it happens now. I just knew some day  soemone was going to make me do something i regreted so i just took the higher road , but this is a real problem in the GOM.

Moral is , people are dirt bags on land , so what makes you think they would be any different on the water !


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## Wild Turkey (Mar 20, 2008)

Twave, I ran into you a few years back at West Marine in PC. You had just gotten the new boat. My brother in law looked at your old boat when it was for sale in PC. You definately are wound a little tight.


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## captbrian (Mar 20, 2008)

Wild Turkey said:


> Anyone who can hold a bearing and judge distance can mark a spot that another boat is sitting on from 3/4 mile away. Ive found as many spots as ive had taken over the years. Kind -of a trading game of sorts. Even the almighty charter boats will often cruise by me and mark stuff if it isnt already in their machine.



it's a little harder than you might think, especially when i'm fishing a piece of junk the size of your dining room table.  with today's technology, you only have to be within 5 miles to 'zuke' someone on their nest.  that's a thing of the past, no sense in 'zuking' when the regs will only let you keep a handful. 

fish- i'll show you about reading the bottom machine.  any my readings stay covered anyways.


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## Corey (Mar 20, 2008)

Good read guys, I will just stay inshore in my Yak


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## fishhead (Mar 21, 2008)

captbrian said:


> it's a little harder than you might think, especially when i'm fishing a piece of junk the size of your dining room table.  with today's technology, you only have to be within 5 miles to 'zuke' someone on their nest.  that's a thing of the past, no sense in 'zuking' when the regs will only let you keep a handful.
> 
> fish- i'll show you about reading the bottom machine.  any my readings stay covered anyways.



Thanks capt. brian, The next time I go with my parents to P.C. mama said she would go with me on your boat.


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## jdgator (Mar 21, 2008)

You guys are almost as bad as the duck hunters, talking about owning spots!


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