# Muzzle loader questions



## miles58 (Aug 11, 2009)

I have taken up messing with muzzle loaders again.  I am running sabot loads and 777 powder.  I am surprised at how gummy the bore gets without swabbing.  I can hardly get the next round down the barrel.  What is there to do that can cut down on that?  Here in Minnesota our ML season is in December, and that's no time to try to swab out a bore with something that will freeze.

I have applied Ultra Bore Coat to the bore because of the experience I have had with it in my CF rifles.  So far I see no crud ring and the bore cleans super easy.

Has anyone tried the Barnes ML bullets?


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## JBM '64 (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey bud, all I can tell you is to give the 777 to some friends and get you some Blackhorn 209. It's non-corrosvie, burns clean and consistent, and requires no cleaning between shots, or for that matter, no cleaning all season, really. You will never mess w/ 777 again.


Jim M.


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## Slayer (Aug 11, 2009)

X 2  !!!!!!!

BH209 is the best thing since sliced bread and shrimp in the muzzleloading arena....check out modernmuzzleloading.com

if ya have a lot of 777...sell it to your friends at a discounted price, make them feel like there getting a great deal    then laugh at them when they are trying to ram the second or 3rd load down a tight fouled barrel !!!!!


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## apache61 (Aug 11, 2009)

Slayer said:


> X 2  !!!!!!!
> 
> BH209 is the best thing since sliced bread and shrimp in the muzzleloading arena....check out modernmuzzleloading.com
> 
> if ya have a lot of 777...sell it to your friends at a discounted price, make them feel like there getting a great deal    then laugh at them when they are trying to ram the second or 3rd load down a tight fouled barrel !!!!!



X2 black Horn


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## miles58 (Aug 11, 2009)

Done deal!  Thanks!

Dave


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## NOYDB (Aug 11, 2009)

How does the BH209 work for a sidelock? Any ignition problems?


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## Jim Thompson (Aug 11, 2009)

NOYDB said:


> How does the BH209 work for a sidelock? Any ignition problems?



I honestly cant help on that one.  check with us over at www.modernmuzzleloader.com for some more detailed info in it.

I cant say enough good things about BH209!

however miles, if you stick with 777 just swab between shots at the range with a windex soaked patch and then a couple of dry patches and it will take care of the crud problem


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## Slayer (Aug 11, 2009)

BH209 is NOT meant for side lock muzzleloaders  !!!!!!!!

you have to look at it to see why.....lots and lots of small "pellets", its not a "granullar" powder....


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## NOYDB (Aug 11, 2009)

Slayer said:


> BH209 is NOT meant for side lock muzzleloaders  !!!!!!!!
> 
> you have to look at it to see why.....lots and lots of small "pellets", its not a "granullar" powder....



Thanks!


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## miles58 (Aug 11, 2009)

Jim Thompson said:


> I honestly cant help on that one.  check with us over at www.modernmuzzleloader.com for some more detailed info in it.
> 
> I cant say enough good things about BH209!
> 
> however miles, if you stick with 777 just swab between shots at the range with a windex soaked patch and then a couple of dry patches and it will take care of the crud problem



I think I will be working up loads with the rest of the 777.

Last time I messed with MLs I had a couple of cap guns and the rifle was 58 cal.  Regular BP was OK for a few shots.  The 777 with sabots is really nasty,  that really surprised me.

Windex will be OK to work up loads at the range and while it's still warm, but once December gets here I can't rely on that so I have to get some BH209.  Keeping Windex patches inside your coat in a pocket close to your body would keep it from freezing there, but take it out and that little bit would be frozen solid in seconds on a lot of days.  I can't imagine a patch frozen in place in your bore would be a good thing for a second shot.

I bought a CVA.  I knew a guy that had a toolbox full of bullets and sabots and parts that looked right for a CVA so I bought it.  In that mess is a couple of breechplugs with different size holes in them.  The hole are also different than the plug that came with my gun.  Would it be a good idea to drill out the extra plugs to the same diameter as the plug that came with my gun?

Also, I put anti-seize compound on my breech plug before I started shooting it.  Is that a good idea?


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## Doyle (Aug 11, 2009)

You can use ordinary spit as a swab between shots.   I chew on a patch while shooting, then swab the bore with it.   I follow that by a dry patch before loading again.


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## WTM45 (Aug 11, 2009)

miles58 said:


> I think I will be working up loads with the rest of the 777.
> 
> Last time I messed with MLs I had a couple of cap guns and the rifle was 58 cal.  Regular BP was OK for a few shots.  The 777 with sabots is really nasty,  that really surprised me.
> 
> ...



Changing the diameter of a breechplug hole will increase blowback.
I would not do it.  I stay factory with mine.
Anti-seize is good for the threads.  I'd remove it and clean it as often as you have time to do it.

In all seriousness.  If you will drop the $40 for a can of BH209, you will find your solution.  It is so worth the investment.


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## miles58 (Aug 11, 2009)

WTM45 said:


> Changing the diameter of a breechplug hole will increase blowback.
> I would not do it.  I stay factory with mine.
> Anti-seize is good for the threads.  I'd remove it and clean it as often as you have time to do it.
> 
> In all seriousness.  If you will drop the $40 for a can of BH209, you will find your solution.  It is so worth the investment.



I meant that I have three breech plugs with three different diameter holes in them now.  The two extras that came with the tool box have smaller holes smaller than the factory breech plug that came with the rifle.

Dave


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## Stryker (Aug 11, 2009)

Can this BH209 be used in a TC encore Pro hunter?


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## Slayer (Aug 11, 2009)

I use it in my ecore with EXCELLENT results....

in an attemt to get my encore to do all that it is capable of, I opted to measure my Blackhorn 209 by weight.......for me and the digital scales I have, 75 grains of bh209 is as close to 110 grains by volume as one can get......

start with this load for the encore....you may have to move up or down 5 grain at a time but this is a tack driver in mine.....

T/C encore
bh209 (75 grains by weight)
harvester short black sabot
hornady 250 gr SST


The Harvester (short black) sabot really really brings the group in tight....and is really needed to complete the set-up....


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## Washington95 (Aug 15, 2009)

Most (all, many??) sabotted bullets are hard to push into barrel unless barrel is swabbed or maybe just brushed.  Pain in the butt.
And I've sometimes wondered if I would have to pull the bullet.
You can try Powerbelts, but I think the sabots shoot better.  I wondered why sabots or Powerbelts seemed to hit tight spots in my barrels until I read that most gun mfgrs don't make their barrels to be a precise diameter throughout the length.  Savage in their model 10ML II says their's IS the same one end to the other.
Looks like others would also, but???


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## miles58 (Aug 15, 2009)

I  got some BH-209.  You are right it's good stuff.

I started the load development with the 777 and 100 grain by weight loads.  Not so good accuracy.  Plenty of speed.  More thump than I need.  Backed down when I started with the BH-209.  66 grains produced good accuracy and a little over 1800 FPS.  I was really surprised how consistent the velocity was! +- 15 FPS was the norm.  4 inch group with the fiber optic sights at 100 yards on a poor target.   A scope would have halved that I think, but we can't use them in the December season.  4 inches will do for what I will use this gun for.

Thanks!


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