# most accurate muzzle loader?



## mcagle

Alright guys, I'm looking to buy a new smoke pole before I head to Illinois this month.  I'm looking for accuracy.  Whats you'lls opinion on what is the most accurate muzzle loader?


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## Nitro

Austin & Halleck..................

Or Knight if you don't want to wait.


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## HandgunHTR

Just like any other rifle, it is my opinion that accuracy potential is about the same in all of them if you are willing to experiment and you can shoot it well.  The two largest variables in accurate shooting are the load combo (powder charge and bullet) and the shooter.

I had a CVA Firebolt that was deadly accurate.  It would consistantly group at around 1.5" at 100 yards.  I made the longest shot I have ever made on a deer with any weapon using that muzzleloader (123 yards).
My T/C Encore is very accurate as well.  It took me a while to find a load it liked, but now that I have I feel confident that I can take a 150 yard shot, no problem.

Basically, what I am saying is that if you are going to be using it next month, you better pick one quick and spend a good bit of time at the range looking for loads.


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## mcagle

I have been shooting an Encore for about 3 years.  I killed a buck at 130 yards with it last year.  Only problem is the best 100 yard group I can get out of it is somewhere in between 3-4 inches.


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## HandgunHTR

mcagle said:


> I have been shooting an Encore for about 3 years.  I killed a buck at 130 yards with it last year.  Only problem is the best 100 yard group I can get out of it is somewhere in between 3-4 inches.



What load are you using?

If you are shooting 150 grains of powder, try dropping down to 100 grains.  If you are shooting loose powder, I would go down to 90 grains.  
I really like Hornady bullets in MMP sabots.  They group very well in my Encore.  I also get very good groups using 100 grains of 777 (pellets) under a 250 Grain T/C Shockwave.


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## kshephe3

If no price is too much, 
http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/

If you are not made of money,
http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.aspx?catid=long range hunter

Other than that, i have not shot one, but the like the new cva accura's design and look.  They also have an accuracy guarantee.


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## Davexx1

Take a look at the Savage 10ML-II muzzle loader rifle.  It is a nice piece, comes with adjustable trigger, can shoot smokeless rifle powder (if legal in your area), is very accurate at long range.

http://www.savagearms.com/10mlbssii.htm

Dave


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## Flintrock

The National Muzzleloading Rifle Association hold rifle matches every year to see who is the best.
,
each year White and Knight come out on top followed by T/C.
I do not recall any of the others making it in the top three.


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## Jim Thompson

knight is widely considered one of the best...

but I sure enjoy my encore.

shooting 100 grains volume blackhorn 209, TC 250gr shockwaves, harvester short sabots and winchester primers....VERY solid groups.  

have killed animals out to 125 or so yards and am completely confident in this gun's ability out past 200 yards.

this is my last 2 range groups...ONLY look at the circled groups...the others are trying different bullets, sabots, or powders..and some rifle shots.


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## littlewolf

Davexx1 said:


> Take a look at the Savage 10ML-II muzzle loader rifle.  It is a nice piece, comes with adjustable trigger, can shoot smokeless rifle powder (if legal in your area), is very accurate at long range.
> 
> http://www.savagearms.com/10mlbssii.htm
> 
> Dave



+1 for the ML-II.


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## Slayer

listed to JT on this!!!!!  Plus you get the added benifit of multiple calibers on the same frame with the encore....

having shot the standard encore and also the pro-hunter encore my personal preferance is the original standard encore(which will accept any and all pro-hunter barrels) plus its "cheaper"


cant go wrong with the encore!!!!!


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## Jim Thompson

Davexx1 said:


> Take a look at the Savage 10ML-II muzzle loader rifle.  It is a nice piece, comes with adjustable trigger, can shoot smokeless rifle powder (if legal in your area), is very accurate at long range.
> 
> http://www.savagearms.com/10mlbssii.htm
> 
> Dave





littlewolf said:


> +1 for the ML-II.




btw I agree on the smokeless and how great it is.  shoots almost EXACTLY like a rifle too.  just got check the legality of where you are going



Slayer said:


> listed to JT on this!!!!!  Plus you get the added benifit of multiple calibers on the same frame with the encore....
> 
> having shot the standard encore and also the pro-hunter encore my personal preferance is the original standard encore(which will accept any and all pro-hunter barrels) plus its "cheaper"
> 
> 
> cant go wrong with the encore!!!!!



I have finally decided to be black powder only for big game so I sold all my rifle barrels.  now I still use the encore as my turk gun though


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## Gote Rider

I have a Remington Genesis and its the best shooting rifle that I have ever pulled the trigger on.


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## mcagle

I've been shooting 100 grains 777 and a 223grain powerbelt.  Thanks for your help so far.


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## Jim Thompson

mcagle said:


> I've been shooting 100 grains 777 and a 223grain powerbelt.  Thanks for your help so far.


]

if that combination is accurate for you the by all means stick with it, cause it will kill deer...dead.


I tried powerbelts first in my encore and could not get groups for anything.  then switched to TC shockwaves and the groups tightened down to about what your getting now 3" or so.  I was happy with it at the time.

now (I just said this in another post) I would throw my encore in the creek if I shot 3" groups!  I have absolutely fallen in love with my current combination and can only hope it stays that way or gets even better


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## scsportsman

Dad bought a thompson center triumph and it shoots better than any one we have ever had 
He's using 110 grains of triple 7 loose powder, and a 250 grain hornady sst bullet. He is up in canada right now and killed a buck with it last night.


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## jbroadnax

McWhorter Custom Rifles muzzleloader.   I have seen them shoot 2 inch groups at 350 yards.


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## mcagle

Well I just bought a pro hunter,  any load suggestions?


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## Jim Thompson

mcagle said:


> Well I just bought a pro hunter,  any load suggestions?



this will be long, but will get you started off on the right foot...


Most likely your gun will shoot fine with 250gr yellow tip TC shockwaves that wally sells for $11 a box and with 100 gr 777 and winchester 209 primers although each ML is different and it may take some playing with.  

Things you need…
A lot of dry cleaning patches
Pre-saturated cleaning patches
Breech plug grease…make sure to put on breech before going to the range
A cleaning jag (will also be used to seat bullets at range)
Either a good range rod or at least a T handle that you can screw onto your rod.
Couple of brushes that are good for cleaning the breech plug threads inside the gun and the plug itself.

When you load for the first time make sure the range rod is marked at the level it sticks out when powder and bullet is seated.  You never want to load twice and this will keep it from happening.

BETWEEN each shot take a saturated cleaning patch (or use a dry one with windex on it) and your range rod and cleaning jag and run it down the barrel paying close attention to the crud ring in front or the breech.  Take out patch, flip over and do again.  Then run a couple of dry patches down.  Do not take the breech out for this. This needs to be done between every single shot at the range.  This will make sure that you are getting as much consistency as you can get from your gun and your combination.

Shoot and repeat swabbing.

This should get you pretty accurate, which with this combination should be a normal deer sized group at 100 yards…pending your ability as a shooter this might be 5” groups or 2” groups or even less.

To clean, take out breech plug and put it in a cup of hot soapy water to soak.  While soaking it use the little brush to clean the threads inside the barrel.  Run a patch or two down the barrel to get it clean enough to put the breech back in.  Put grease on plug threads and put back in.  Then clean the barrel with the saturate patches or a bore brush as needed just like you would a regular rifle, making sure to use dry patches until COMPLETELY dry.  Clean the rest of the gun the same as normal.




*
your other choice would be to get a can of BlackHorn 209 and shoot 100-110 grains per volume along with the same bullet and primer combo.  this will no questions asked increase your accuracy and it COMPLETELY does away with the need to swab between shots at the range.*


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## mcagle

Thanks Jim, you have been a big help.


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## Detox

Yea...swab barrel with wet patch between every shot is the most accurate. My Browning BPCR will shoot 1' groups at 100yards if I run a wet patch down barrel between every shot when using blackpowder.


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## RWK

Whats a good load for a optima pro 50 ca. and bullet, just getting started.


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## jp328

As an Encore owner, I agree 100% with Jim's info. Although, I clean after 3 shots. I use 100gr 777 and a 245 powerbelt aero tip. I am getting 2'' groups.



Jim Thompson said:


> this will be long, but will get you started off on the right foot...
> 
> 
> Most likely your gun will shoot fine with 250gr yellow tip TC shockwaves that wally sells for $11 a box and with 100 gr 777 and winchester 209 primers although each ML is different and it may take some playing with.
> 
> Things you need…
> A lot of dry cleaning patches
> Pre-saturated cleaning patches
> Breech plug grease…make sure to put on breech before going to the range
> A cleaning jag (will also be used to seat bullets at range)
> Either a good range rod or at least a T handle that you can screw onto your rod.
> Couple of brushes that are good for cleaning the breech plug threads inside the gun and the plug itself.
> 
> When you load for the first time make sure the range rod is marked at the level it sticks out when powder and bullet is seated.  You never want to load twice and this will keep it from happening.
> 
> BETWEEN each shot take a saturated cleaning patch (or use a dry one with windex on it) and your range rod and cleaning jag and run it down the barrel paying close attention to the crud ring in front or the breech.  Take out patch, flip over and do again.  Then run a couple of dry patches down.  Do not take the breech out for this. This needs to be done between every single shot at the range.  This will make sure that you are getting as much consistency as you can get from your gun and your combination.
> 
> Shoot and repeat swabbing.
> 
> This should get you pretty accurate, which with this combination should be a normal deer sized group at 100 yards…pending your ability as a shooter this might be 5” groups or 2” groups or even less.
> 
> To clean, take out breech plug and put it in a cup of hot soapy water to soak.  While soaking it use the little brush to clean the threads inside the barrel.  Run a patch or two down the barrel to get it clean enough to put the breech back in.  Put grease on plug threads and put back in.  Then clean the barrel with the saturate patches or a bore brush as needed just like you would a regular rifle, making sure to use dry patches until COMPLETELY dry.  Clean the rest of the gun the same as normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> your other choice would be to get a can of BlackHorn 209 and shoot 100-110 grains per volume along with the same bullet and primer combo.  this will no questions asked increase your accuracy and it COMPLETELY does away with the need to swab between shots at the range.*


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## Jim Thompson

Detox said:


> Yea...swab barrel with wet patch between every shot is the most accurate. My Browning BPCR will shoot 1' groups at 100yards if I run a wet patch down barrel between every shot when using blackpowder.



make sure to run a dry one after the wet one as well.



RWK said:


> Whats a good load for a optima pro 50 ca. and bullet, just getting started.



just as a start try 100 grains (2 pellets) of 777 and 250 grain shockwaves


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