# BINOCULARS



## watchmaker (Jul 12, 2007)

*Binoculars*

BINOCULARS

Hi guys,
The big brown truck and the nice man that brings goodies to the house stopped yesterday with a package from Cabela’s.
I was deprived from sleep for the five days that it took between order and delivery, but finally the Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42 binoculars are here, and I will sleep soundly tonight.







Although I have quite a few binoculars in my safe, I don’t have nearly as many of them as I do flashlights (most of you know me as the crazy guy that owns all those flashlights); but fear not, I am getting there.
So it occurred to me that I should make a post about binoculars for those that are bored of hearing about my lights.
I had owned quite a good amount of binoculars since I bought my first as a 15 year-old with an itch about optics. I even owned an expensive Zeiss when I was single and didn’t had a family to take care of.
And I am here to tell you that the quality, brightness, sharpness, and durability of the new binoculars now on the market; it is better than ever.
Not long ago, if we wanted all these features in a good binocular the choice was between spending a thousand in a Zeiss, Swarosvki, Leica or Minox or looking for good Porro prisms in the Nikon or Pentax lines.
But since a couple of years ago, the Japanese starting coating the roof prisms of their binoculars with Phase Coating, and the sharpness and definition of their roof prism binos had increased to the point to rival the European imports from the big four, and all at very modest cost.

Take, for example, the Nikon Monarch ATB (All terrain binocular) 8x42 I just received, or my Pentax DCF WP 8x42 that I bought last year.







All lenses are fully multicoated (that means all surfaces, not only the glass to air surfaces) prisms are phased-corrected and have mirror-coated lower prisms (not cheap aluminum). They have blackened tubes to avoid reflections and are waterproof and fog proof; they have a nice outer coating of rubber (silent) and very good ergonomics. I particularly like the twist eye cups for eye-glass wearers and the ample eye relief: no problem using it with my glasses and instant acquisition of the picture even with glasses on.






All that can be said for the Nikon Monarch can be said also of my Pentax DCF WP 8x42, except for the weight: the Nikon is lighter at 22 ounces but I don’t know how much my Pentax weighs until I get a new battery for my fish scale.

I like the approach of securing the objective caps to the body of the binocular that the Nikon uses as well.  I had to get creative with the Pentax and cook up something home-made to hold the caps to the binocular body. 
I did the usual checking for good prisms by holding the binos a few inches away and looking at the light spot in the ocular lens, nice and round without any hint of flattening, just like I was expecting.  I checked collimation by holding it a few inches away and pointing them at the yellow line in the road, straight and sharp with not sign of being distorted.
To test the sharpness and resolution most people look from the inside to the outside thru an open window, and most binoculars will perform well under those conditions. I look for a dark corner in the room and try to read some labels or a newspaper print set for the occasion; that is what separates the mediocre from the good or great binoculars.

As the Nikon and the Pentax are so the same in quality I tried to spot any optical differences between them by perching one on top of the other and alternatively looking thru them.  After several minutes of this I have to admit that they are both the same optical quality as far as my eyes can tell, without resorting to an optical laboratory.






I have looked thru many Swarovski and Zeiss lenses, (I hunt the stores) superb optical quality in those glasses. I can tell you for sure than the new Nikon and Pentax are almost the equal of those expensive brands; that I only paid just over $300 with shipping for such a superb glass as the Nikon still amazes me.

Kind regards,
Watchmaker


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## SouthPaw Draw (Jul 12, 2007)

Which of these 2 do you like the best Pentax or Nikon? Looking for a pair myself. 300.00 sounds like a good deal.


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## watchmaker (Jul 13, 2007)

SouthPaw Draw said:


> Which of these 2 do you like the best Pentax or Nikon? Looking for a pair myself. 300.00 sounds like a good deal.



As they are optically the same, I will take the Nikon, just because it is lighter and the objetive caps are attached to the body.
Cheers
Watchmaker


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## jeshoffstall (Jul 13, 2007)

*Great Review*

I plan on purchasing a pair of the ATBs before my next elk hunt.  My only struggle is the 8X or 10X.  I want something I can use in GA as well.  Any thoughts?


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## watchmaker (Jul 14, 2007)

Yes, the 8x42 are brighter!
Exit pupil in mm for the 8x is 5.3 against 4.2 for the 10x
Brightness is 28.1 for the 8x against 17.6 for the 10x
Eye relief (if you wear glasses) is 19.6 for the 8x against 17.6 for the 10x

lenght in mm 146 for the 8x and 143 for the 10x
Width the same at 129 mm
and weight in grams is the same at 610 (22 oz)

As you have the same quality optics the better binocular is the 8x.

When you want to find your exit pupil, (tell you how big is the circle of light in mm and correspond at how bright they will be), divide the objective size in mm by the magnification

That is why they call them night glasses to the 7x50 and 8x56 mm binoculars.

cheers
Watchmaker


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## 257 roberts (Jul 15, 2007)

Both are GOOD, BUT take alook thru the Busnell Legends before you buy , I did and walked away with the Bushnells.


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## SELFBOW (Jul 15, 2007)

I would like to know what low light conditions look like.
I have used swaroskis before and they were unmatched at dusk.


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## 01Foreman400 (Jul 15, 2007)

[/QUOTE]I have looked thru many Swarovski and Zeiss lenses, (I hunt the stores) superb optical quality in those glasses. I can tell you for sure than the new Nikon and Pentax are almost the equal of those expensive brands; that I only paid just over $300 with shipping for such a superb glass as the Nikon still amazes me.[/QUOTE]

I owned a pair of 8x42 Nikon Monarch's for 3 years and now have Swarovski 8x30 SLC and Swarovski 8.5x42 EL's.  The Monarch's are not in the same league as the Swaro's.  I've compared them side by side in the "real world" and there is a big differece in the 2.  For under $300 the Monarch's are the way to go though.

Darrell


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## Big M (Jul 15, 2007)

I have looked thru many Swarovski and Zeiss lenses, (I hunt the stores) superb optical quality in those glasses. I can tell you for sure than the new Nikon and Pentax are almost the equal of those expensive brands; that I only paid just over $300 with shipping for such a superb glass as the Nikon still amazes me.[/QUOTE]

I owned a pair of 8x42 Nikon Monarch's for 3 years and now have Swarovski 8x30 SLC and Swarovski 8.5x42 EL's.  The Monarch's are not in the same league as the Swaro's.  I've compared them side by side in the "real world" and there is a big differece in the 2.  For under $300 the Monarch's are the way to go though.

Darrell[/QUOTE]Well said,there is no way Nikon will even come close to being in the same league as Swarovski or Zeiss.I have a pair of Sarovski 10-42 EL that will let you see after dark,my Nikons won't.


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## watchmaker (Jul 17, 2007)

BINOCULARS 8 X 56

Hi guys,
This post will be of little help to those looking to buy a binocular in the 8 x 56 size, because what I have here is a little outdated, my Tasco 8x56 is about twenty seven years old and my Pentax DCF 8x56 about six.
Still let me talk a little about them so you can see what job the monster can do.

Great improvement has been made lately, especially in the phase correction of prisms that has sharpened the image considerably.
These big and heavy binoculars together with the 7x50 are called night glasses and they have a very specialized job of taking advantage of the last available light at dusk and before dawn to see game in their habitat, they are mostly used by European hunters with their liberal shooting hours and used mostly from machans or hotchsit where the bulk and weight are of no consequence.

In the eighties I was involved in doing some research in the habits of black bear, I have seated many times at bait stations armed only with these heavy binoculars, learning the feeding peculiarities and the pecking order of the American black bear.

Although I had lusted over getting a Zeiss 8x56 I had to conform myself with the Tasco 8x56 for many years until I found a brighter binocular in the Pentax DCF.
Brightness is a function of many things (including the objective diameter) the more prominent of them is quality of glass, the better factories use heavy and expensive Bak4 glass in the prisms and extra low dispersion glass for color correction and aspherical lenses that have multicoats of anti reflection coating as much as seven times; it looks like the Pentax binocular uses several of the new techniques to be brighter and sharper than the Tasco 8x56.





Although my Pentax DCF is not corrected for phase distortion at the prisms, it is extremely sharp and bright; the new binoculars in the line of Nikon, Pentax, and others are, being made even better by the addition of phase correction in the prisms.
In my Pentax the correction for eye relief for eye glass wearers is made on the old style fold down rubber eyecups, so you get only fully retracted or fully extended eye cups. I am very impressed with the new system in the Nikon line of helical retracted eye cups and in the Pentax line with the pull up or down eyecups that have come out in the last few years.

My six years old Pentax DCF 8x56 has the objective and ocular caps not attached in any way to the body of the binocular, I had to get creative and cook something home made with a ribbon and some Velcro to have those caps at all times together with the binoculars, new binoculars in the Pentax line will be better in this regard (at least they have a solid ocular lens cover) and I am impressed with the system of retaining the covers that Nikon is using now.







I pulled both binoculars from the safe a few days ago and compared the brightness and sharpness by putting them in the tripod perched in top of each other and taking alternate peeks throughout them at a ADT sign that is in my neighbor house, located at 50 yards from the tripod (by laser rangefinder) it reads in very small letter “protected by” ADT in big letters and again in small letters “security systems”.







Both binocular let me read the sign and the small letters, but the Pentax was sharper than the Tasco and the quality of glass on the Pentax resolved much better when the light was falling down.







At dusk when other binocular have quit, the big 8x56 continues to show you a clear picture. As I see its utility is for those that are willing to carry them in a back pack to use only after the daylight binoculars carried in the neck have quit showing detail.

I don’t think many of these big 8x56 are sold, many people from hunters to bird watchers prefer top carry the compacts 8x42 that are lighter and less bulky and can show birds or game quite well until just before dusk, still I am writing this so everybody is aware that they exist and that they perform a very special function.

Kind regards
Watchmaker


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## TJay (Jul 17, 2007)

Watchmaker, thanks for the information on the binocular specifically the Pentax.  I have an older model Nikon Monarch in 8x and they have been excellent.  Tough and clear.  I am approaching my 30 year service anniversary with my company and one of the service awards is a 10x Pentax Bino, but I am not sure which model exactly.  I haven't heard much about the Pentax line, but I know they have a good reputation.  Thanks again for the info.


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## Jetjockey (Jul 18, 2007)

If anyone is looking for glass make sure you look at the new Minox HG's.. I just picked up a pair of the 10x43's from cameralandny.com for about $600..  Not cheap, but they are demos (can't tell, they look brand new and come with the new glass warrantie) and brand new your looking around $800.. My dad has swaro 8x32 EL's.... Ive compared both back to back, for about $900 less you can't beat the HG's.. They are amazing.  The are really, really close to the Swaros.....  Plus, Cameralandny is amazing to work with.  The get a ton of business from 24hourcampfire and everyone raves about thier service.  And I have to agree.... Ok.. done pimping the HGs and cameraland now..


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## Predator56 (Aug 5, 2007)

LEICA, swarovski, zeiss, nikon, pentax, kahles


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## Nitro (Aug 5, 2007)

Swarovski for me. Once you use a pair for a while, anything else is substandard. YMMV.


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## watchmaker (Aug 7, 2007)

PENTAX PCF 7X BY 35MM
PORRO PRISMS

Six years ago I arrived in Gillete, Wyoming without my gun case and binoculars (the airlines momentarily lost it).
I was able to borrow a gun from the outfitter but the binoculars offered didn’t appeal to me, so I looked for a good one in the store where I purchased my out-of-state license.

I really can’t understand how any serious hunter can spend one grand in a rifle and scope and then turn around and pick up a $39.99 binoculars from the “on sale” rack.
To me the binocular is the “hunt”; I spend most of the time in a hunt glassing for game, looking for that tell-tale piece of fur between the vegetation, that antler sticking out of the bushes or that liquid shine of an eye in the bushes.

For me, glasses that are sharp, bright and have good definition are imperative to the success of the hunt, after all if I see something that appears to be an antler or horn sticking out of the brush, I want enough definition in my optics to tell me that it is really an antler and not a just a weathered branch.

PENTAX PCF 7X 35 mm






Good optics cost money, sometimes a good deal of it.   A bargain is not found in the price, but in the quality of the optics that you can get for a predetermined amount of money that you are willing to spend.
For that reason when you are in that store comparing binoculars to each other it is necessary that you know what you are looking for regarding the quality of the glass inside the binoculars.
A good company name will have glasses of different prices; today it seems that even the cheap brands will advertise that they have Barium Crown glass (BAK4) and coated optics.
What you have to look for in the box that comes with the binoculars are those advertisings that say they use fully multicoated lenses.  This coating is a bombardment of the glass with anti reflection particles of magnesium fluoride or other similar compound, the deposit will change the color of the glass to a blue hue or ruby or green, and what is does is sharpen the image and eliminate reflections that robs the light entering into them.
Cheap brands will coat once and only the outside of the lenses, what you looking for is fully multicoated lenses (as much as seven coats are applied) in all of the inside and outside surfaces, good brands will advertise the fact in the box or literature that come with the glasses.







Looking through a good glass, you will see that an image is sharp and well-defined, while the image from a cheap binocular will be soft and fuzzy.
Brightness in a binocular when you are in a store has to be checked by looking into dark corners of the store and trying to read some labels.  The letters in those boxes will appear dark and fuzzy when looked at through cheap binoculars, while with a good set you will notice how the letters are sharp, lighted and well-defined. Don’t look out of the window to a bright street: it will tell you little about the capabilities of the binocular to perform in poor lighting conditions.

Some brands make waterproof and fog-proof binoculars by using good seals and charging the interior with an inert gas such as nitrogen, as it is more difficult to make a good seal in binoculars that have more parts than rifle scopes, and if waterproofing is important to you, consider a good name brand that will stand behind its warranty.

Look toward the borders of the glass to see if you can find any distortion in the picture.  You may find some, as only the very best glasses are free of it, so just consider the brands that have the less of it.
Now that binoculars are designed by an optical computer program, it is rare to see other optical aberrations unless you are looking through a set of very cheap glasses.

That day in the Wyoming store I spend a good hour looking at different binoculars. I walked out with a Porro prisms model from Pentax (Porros are less costly than Roof of the same optical quality). I think I paid about $175.00 for it, and I never have regretted my selection.

It is just a coincidence that I selected a Pentax, as I was looking for optical quality that can be met by many brands: Bushnells, Nikons, etc. It is just that I have used Pentax cameras and I have been awed by the quality optics they have.
This one is a 7x by 35 mm Pentax PCF Porro prisms binocular and at 28 oz. not that heavy, Porros are always more bulky than roof prisms, but this particular model has good ergonomics and at 6” long by 5 ½ “ it is quite compact for a full-size glass.
This particular model have a focus lock on the focus turning wheel, when you have achieved the focus you can lock it in place by sliding the lock into place, very neat,
The right ocular has detent clicks in the diopter adjustment for the eye, another very neat feature that speaks attention to detail and innovation in the design.
While most Porros binoculars have a couple hinges connecting to the center shaft, these are designed with a more solid, all-body mass to center shaft, more like a quality roof prisms. I don’t see this binocular get knocked out of alignment by rough use anytime soon.






The glasses I have, had been replaced in the Pentax line for the new PCF WP II 8x40, and they are even better as they feature helical adjustment for eyeglass wearers instead of my old style fold down rubber eye guards, and I have noticed that they come with a rain guard for the ocular lenses tethered to the neck strap while my model has the easy-to-lose plastic caps.
As I want my optics dry and clean all the time, I had to rig my glasses with some tethering ribbons for the plastic caps attached to the strap for the oculars lenses and to the center screw cap for the objectives lenses.
And what’s more, the price of the new Porros PCF is still about the same, even lower at internet discount houses.

The exit pupil of an 8x by 40 mm is the same 5 mm as the 7x35, so these glasses should perform very well in low light situations, much better than those toy 8x20 daylight only binoculars that most folks seem to buy these days at the department store.

Good quality binoculars are a joy to use.  If you can not afford the quality popular roof prisms that are in the market for about $300.00 USD, you owe yourself to look for a quality Porro prisms that for about half the price will give you just about the same optical quality.

Cheers
Watchmaker


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## watchmaker (Aug 10, 2007)

LEUPOLD YOSEMITE 6X 30MM
PORRO PRISMS BINOCULARS

Hi Guys:
Some things are changing in the world of optics.  It uses to be that you had to spend a good chunk of money to get good optics; after all, it is difficult and requires expensive lenses, expensive anti-reflection treatment, some quality components, and precise work to mount it all and to get the optics to perform as they should.
Some optical aberrations and distortions can only be corrected the best possible.  It is difficult to make good glasses to deliver a flat picture of good quality when the light ray has to pass through curved lenses.

But the new computerized optics programs than the optical engineer is using these days has brought a solution to the trial-and-error and time-consuming work that was needed to produce decent binocular blueprints in the old days.

They are several factors, beside objective size, that will determine how good the image quality in binoculars will be. 
They include optical coating, quality of optics, distortions and aberrations, optical alignment, and manufacturer tolerances.

THE LEUPOLD 6X30MM YOSEMITE






Back in 1970, I came back from the jungles of South America in one piece, but minus my good Zeiss binoculars.  In seventy-one, freshly married and planning a trip, I was in need of a binocular, but my budget was $25.00 (you bought a lot of gasoline with $25 in the seventies).

After looking at several on that price range, I selected a 7x35 Porro prisms Sunset (Japanese). It says in big white letters that it is an extra-wide angle (10 degrees), which, at the time, didn’t affect me since my young eyes in those days didn’t need prescription glasses (wide angle will reduce the eye relief, an important consideration to eyeglass wearers). But poor eye relief means that you have to get your eye very close to the lens to see the whole picture, which can put a drop of perspiration on the glass in hot days or fog them in the cold climate.

It also makes it impossible to focus the edges of the glass.  The center will be in focus, but the edges will be blurry: this distortion is called “curvature of field,” so keep in mind to stay away from wide field-of-view glasses if you want your picture to be relatively sharp all around.


 It also says that it has coated optics, which means (and I can see it) that only the exterior lenses have been coated on the outside, and that translates that a good amount of light is going to be lost throughout reflection, making them inferior to glasses that used multi-coating lenses to see in deep shadows and at dusk .

LEUPOLD YOSEMITE AND SUNSET BINOCULARS







So brightness and sharpness are affected by the amount and quality of the coating that are used in binoculars- the more the better (as much as seven coats for glass surfaces are been used now). When you think that as much as 4 % of light is lost through reflection from uncoated surfaces and that a binocular uses a total of 14 or more optical glass inside them, you will understand why multi-coats are so important for light transmission.

YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE COATING BETWEEN THEM








I can see that the lenses in the Sunset haven’t been corrected for chromatic aberrations, which means that the colors will be more muddled if I were looking at birds.  Of course, correcting for color needs a set of different glass, all keyed to a certain spectrum on the color scale, which makes binoculars more expensive and will have taken me out of my $25.00 budget in those days.

Be careful of cheap binoculars with big lenses (50 to 60 or more mm of objective), as the bigger the lenses are, the more intense the chromatic aberration will be, unless it is corrected by low dispersion glass that will make the binoculars much more expensive.

Good glasses should be corrected for another aberration called “astigmatism,” which is the effect of the light at the edges of the glass that is elongated into an oval that points toward the center.  This together with the “curvature of field” tends to make glasses fuzzy toward the edges. I believe my Sunset 7x35 glasses shows a good degree of astigmatism.


Of course, my 38 year-old glasses also show a good deal of spherical aberration.  There is no way that ray of light passing trough the center of a normal glass can be in the same focus as the ones passing through the edges. This makes the image loss detail.  Newer binoculars are now using an aspheric lens (usually in the oculars) that corrects the focus by bringing the center light rays to the same focus as edges rays of light, making the glass brightest and with increased contrast.

My Sunset glasses show some “barrel distortion.” Were a straight line placed on the edge of the field of view, it will bow outwards at the center.  If that line will bow inwards at the center, it will be called “pin cushion distortion.” Good glasses correct for this distortion with quality glass, although you can still find just a little of it even in expensive glasses.

AT LEFT IS A REGULAR OPTICAL GLASS WITH CURVED SURFACES, AT RIGHT IS THE NEW AESPHERICAL LENS






My Sunset 7x35 binoculars did fine for a few years (I didn’t use them much in low light) until I replaced them in my neck for a Bushnell Custom Compact 6x 25 CF in 1974, which then started my love affair with 6x lenses.

The Bushnell Custom Compact are beautiful binoculars; light, small, and highly good optics that still sells today and is highly sought after by those that don’t want to carry full binoculars when birding or hunting.


The street price on the Custom Compact is around $250.00, and it is well worth it. I have used mine for years in hikes into the high peaks of the Adirondacks. I think so highly of them that I had bought a pair for my wife in 1976.
The only thing I always wondered was how it would perform in poor light if the objectives were as big as 30 mm instead of 25mm.

Now, after so many years, another 6x binocular has fallen into my hands, thanks to the advice of FirstFreedom, a member of TFL forum.


The Leupold Yosemite Porro prisms 6x30 is in my hands now and a beauty it is, both physically and optically. 
This Leupold is miles ahead of my Sunset 7x35, the comparisons I made in low light gives a great edge to the Leupold even than the objectives are 5mm smaller in the Leupold, and the numbers for exit pupil gives both the same 5mm value (35 mm divided by 7x = 5mm and 30 mm divided by 6x = 5mm of exit pupil).  The Leupold outperforms my Sunset glasses, due to better coating and better optics.


I was surprised when I put both in my fish scale because both weigh 1 lb. 1 oz., but the Leupold feels much lighter.  The rubber covering and the twist up eye-piece guards are a big asset for the Leupold, as the Sunset doesn’t have any eye-piece guards at all. The Leupold Yosemite comes with a rain guard that is tethered to the elastic strap and regular caps in the objectives.  That is one thing I would like to see changed; objectives should be protected with covers, such as the ones find in my Nikon Monarch, that are attached to the binocular body and not by caps that are easily lost.

Optically, the Leupold Yosemite is very superior to the Sunset glass. Some aberrations and distortions are still in the glasses, but only in a reduced amount and in the edge of the field of view, and it is okay, because only very high quality glasses like the Swarovski and Zeiss can make those defects disappear almost completely, and after all, most of us look through the center of the field anyway, and not through the edges.
Color seems to be fully corrected in the Yosemite, although I have yet to find a proper test medium to judge it (hummingbirds or woodpeckers).


Sharpness and definition are well up in the scale, leaving the Sunset glasses in the dust. That all this optical quality is attained at the cost of only less than a hundred USD is a miracle of new manufacturing techniques. I am well pleased with the new Yosemite binoculars by Leupold, I took a calculated risk when I bought them, based on the Leupold name in others optics and I am well satisfied with what I got and for the little money I got them.

Cheers
Watchmaker


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## MCBUCK (Aug 11, 2007)

o.k.....Looks like I found the right forum to post this question on.  My guess is you boys know your binos.  Here goes....
I am 43, so my eyesight is starting to fade some...ok. a lot.  My right eye is becoming the weaker while still dominant, and may be that isn't all that important while discussing binos, but it is a part of it...my eyes aren't what they used to be...especially a t those "magic hours" of dawn & dusk.
I have an old pair of 10x32 Bushnells ( yep...$39.00)
and I am ready to replace them.
You ( and the bank account ) have convinced me to go with the Nikon Monarchs...I like them, look, feel , and sight picture etc....clarity , crispness.  I really like the Swaros, but my wife would me to death ! So, I can do $300.00
Here is the question........Do I go with the 8x40 or the 10x42's ?  I hunt mainly mature timber, but do venture into cutovers and fields quite often, and am offered views of up 500yards and beyond.  The old Bushies have been sufficent, but I lose light real fast...HELP !


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## watchmaker (Aug 11, 2007)

Hi MC BUCK,

 I just realized that in my original posting I had once put 8x 40, and I just corrected it because the size is 8x by 42 mm.

If I were you I would go with the 8x by 42 mm instead of the 10x, sometimes the 10x is a little too much to hold steady.

Hunting in the West requires serious glassing; you and your guide will be in the top of the mountain overlooking a valley.
The glassing is done from the sitting position with your elbows anchored near the knee caps, and you holding the binoculars with two hands and the index fingers anchored at the temples.

Before dark the guide will want to get out of the mountain, to see where you are both putting your feet clearly, and the better light gathering of the 8x is not going to be needed. So under those conditions and the increased distances in the West, a 10x makes sense.

In the East we use the binoculars mostly from the standing position and with one hand (in the other hand we hold the rifle). The distances are not great and we just scan the timber for an antler sticking out from a tree,  a patch of fur, or the liquid black of an eye.
We rarely seat to scan as the snow will wet our pants and as the terrain is flatter and the distances to go back to camp shorter, we stay longer hunting until dusk.

Under these conditions the 8x makes more sense, since the increased pupil diameter (5.25 mm for the 8x against the 4.2 of the 10x) will make the 8x better at the light conditions of dawn and dusk.

Your falling eyesight on one of your eyes is corrected by using the diopter adjustment on the right barrel (with the left eye closed or the right objetive blocked) and then focusing with the main wheel (or vice-versa).

Hope this help.
Cheers
Watchmaker


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## MCBUCK (Aug 14, 2007)

You have answered my question efficently and eloquently !
8x42's it is !  Nikon Monarch ?!?


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## phillipsmike (Aug 14, 2007)

NOOOOOOOOO forget the Monarch, go with the new Bushnell Elite e2 8x42.  I bought a pair as a backup and they are excellent.  I compared them against Pentax, Nikon Monarch and a few others and they were MUCH better.  You can find them online for $360.  A little bit more than the Nikon's but MUCH better.


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## MCBUCK (Aug 15, 2007)

phillipsmike said:


> NOOOOOOOOO forget the Monarch, go with the new Bushnell Elite e2 8x42.  I bought a pair as a backup and they are excellent.  I compared them against Pentax, Nikon Monarch and a few others and they were MUCH better.  You can find them online for $360.  A little bit more than the Nikon's but MUCH better.



Great ..but.............I am on a serious budget dude.  ( Moma don't even know I am getting these) i have got a real tight pocket book , man and $300.00 is the absolute ceiling !  I'll take a look at the Bushies....Elite e2 8x42's ??  Right ?  Got it!


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## Bruz (Aug 15, 2007)

*The absolute BEST BUY in a Bino*

Zeiss Optics for $300

The Zeiss Diafuns 8x that I picked up 3 years ago rival the best $1,000+ glass I've had the opportunity to use in the field. I have yet to have anyone take a look through these and not be impressed...Which is saying a lot because some of them own Leica and Swarovski binos. 

I've compared the Diafuns to every other bino in this class and one above in the $700 range and they beat them all hands down.


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## TeamBrowning (Aug 15, 2007)

McBuck if I can win the lottery I will spring the extra $60 so you can get the Pentax!


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## Predator56 (Aug 15, 2007)

Zeiss DIafuns might be great for $300... With an exit pupil under 4mm assuming you are using the 8x30's, I wouldnt want to be using them at last light....Inthe daytime, everything looks pretty good.. the 10x30's I wouldnt even consider...eye strain and small FOV + 3mm exit pupil

I recommend an exit pupil of at least 5 and 6 or 7 is even better for bright binoculars in fading light..
thus an 8x42, 7x42, 7x50, 8x50 are great choices....

i cant see using 10x east of the mississippi, been there done that and felt like I was looking through a funnel when I was using them for hunting timber


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## Bruz (Aug 15, 2007)

SAKO75 said:


> Zeiss DIafuns might be great for $300... With an exit pupil under 4mm assuming you are using the 8x30's, I wouldnt want to be using them at last light....Inthe daytime, everything looks pretty good.. the 10x30's I wouldnt even consider...eye strain and small FOV + 3mm exit pupil
> 
> I recommend an exit pupil of at least 5 and 6 or 7 is even better for bright binoculars in fading light..
> thus an 8x42, 7x42, 7x50, 8x50 are great choices....
> ...



Sako,

I've used them at last and first light for 3 years without an issue. I have Swaro EL's prior to these and they are almost as good for a fraction of the cost.

My brother took them to Nebraska and at dawn had a 120 class 8, a 140 class 10 and a Doe and was able to determine quality of game animal at day break with the Diafuns and then tried to scope it with his Swarovski AV and had to wait for more light to take the shot....He took the 10 pointer at 5 minutes after legal shooting light. I have never felt a need for a larger objective Bino here in the Southeast......If I did....... I would buy them. 

On paper is one thing...In the field is another.

I am very happy with the Diafuns for hunting in the Southeast but just like Scopes and SLR lenses it's all about personal preference in my opinion. There are groups of folks who tout Leupolds every time a discussion of Rifle Scopes comes up and to be honest I don't like them. On paper they are as good or better than the Zeiss,Swarovski's,Aetecs and Bushnells that I do like but they have always looked hazy to me. I will say the same about their Bino' s as well as the Nikons I've tried. I do like the Nikon SLR lenses though so who knows.


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## Predator56 (Aug 16, 2007)

i agree that whats on paper doesnt always convert to the field and the diafuns may be "bright enough" but exit pupil does measure how much light is going to the eye, and assuming glass, coatings, and optical design are equal, then there is no doubt the binocular with the larger exit pupil will be brighter. that being said, maybe you dont "need" that level of brightness...but the science still supports the exit pupil when all else is equal... by the way 8x30 is very popular as you know and easy to carry for sure...its hard to think zeiss would make something that isnt "bright enough"...for me though, my objective preference is 42mm


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## Bruz (Aug 16, 2007)

SAKO75 said:


> i agree that whats on paper doesnt always convert to the field and the diafuns may be "bright enough" but exit pupil does measure how much light is going to the eye, and assuming glass, coatings, and optical design are equal, then there is no doubt the binocular with the larger exit pupil will be brighter. that being said, maybe you dont "need" that level of brightness...but the science still supports the exit pupil when all else is equal... by the way 8x30 is very popular as you know and easy to carry for sure...its hard to think zeiss would make something that isnt "bright enough"...for me though, my objective preference is 42mm



Sako,

I understand the science and of course you are right ...... It's just that practical application of the science to something as subjective as sight is a little tricky as you know. The little 8x30's fit my hunting needs well and I am pleased with the performance of the optics for $300. There are very few pieces of equipment which I own that I don't want to eventually upgrade........These Binos fall into that select group.....at least here in the South....I will probably break out the check book when I finally get a chance expand my horizons. 

Have a good night,

Bruz


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## Briar (Aug 17, 2007)

I have the Nikon ATB and I'm needing a set of attached lens caps . Where can I get a set of four at ? I've even pondered buying Butler Creek flip up sope covers but have yet to do soo .


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## 01Foreman400 (Aug 21, 2007)

Bruz said:


> Zeiss Optics for $300
> 
> The Zeiss Diafuns 8x that I picked up 3 years ago rival the best $1,000+ glass I've had the opportunity to use in the field. I have yet to have anyone take a look through these and not be impressed...Which is saying a lot because some of them own Leica and Swarovski binos.
> 
> I've compared the Diafuns to every other bino in this class and one above in the $700 range and they beat them all hands down.



Why did you sell your Swaro's to begin with?  Are you sure you compared them to a set of 42mm EL's?  I have a pair of 8x30 SLC's and have compared them to my 8.5 x42 EL's and there is a big difference in light gathering capability.  I just find this hard to believe.  So your saying that Zeiss's bottom of the line binoculars are better than thier top of the line?  

Darrell


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## Bruz (Aug 21, 2007)

01Foreman400 said:


> Why did you sell your Swaro's to begin with?  Are you sure you compared them to a set of 42mm EL's?  I have a pair of 8x30 SLC's and have compared them to my 8.5 x42 EL's and there is a big difference in light gathering capability.  I just find this hard to believe.  So your saying that Zeiss's bottom of the line binoculars are better than thier top of the line?
> 
> Darrell



Darrell,

What I'm saying is that when I bought the Diafuns as my back up binos and compared them to the Swaro's the difference was so insignificant that I chose to keep the Diafuns and use the money from the EL's for more rifles. 

I know that the larger objective gathers more light but as many have stated there is only so long we can hunt and I don't believe I gave up any legal opportunity by going with the Diafuns....The clarity and contrast to me was as good as the EL's plus they are more compact and I am less concerned about them while hunting....I babied the EL's because of their high price.

It was a personal choice and I have not regretted it one bit.


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## watchmaker (Aug 31, 2007)

*HOW TO GLASS

​*Well, what now, you just put he binoculars to your eyes and look through them, right?

Just in case we have new binocular users here, I am going to explain the mechanics of glassing the right way. Not long ago a new hunter in the family was showing me his new binoculars that I noticed were adjusted in the interpupilary distance with a far greater length that I knew his eyes to be set.

When I questioned him if he was not seeing two uncompleted circles when looking through the glasses, he admitted it and was surprised when I told him that the binoculars are supposed to deliver only one circle. I guess he has seen too many movies where the view trough binoculars are shown that way.

So our first business with the binoc is to adjust the interpupilary distance by bending the barrels at the center hinge until our eyes see only one circle; that will ensure that the optical center of the glasses is in line with the center of our pupils.

Second is to adjust the diopter wheel that is usually in the right barrel; as not everybody has 20/20 vision, this wheel will adjust the focus for your right eye. To accomplish the adjustment cover the right objective with your hand or objective cap, look through the glasses and adjust the center wheel until the view is sharp and clear, now cover the left objective and adjust the diopter wheel until the view is sharp. 

I used for years to do this in the reverse sequence, adjusting the diopter first and then the center wheel, you get the same results.
 Look at the markings at the edge of the wheel to remember the settings in case somebody changes them, (I just put a small drop of white out correction fluid to mark the setting).

The eye relief is fixed and in modern binoculars quite generous, but the eye cups collapse to use the binoculars with your eye glasses, some models can be adjusted to stop midway or at increments so you can get your oculars lenses as far or as close as you want to your eye glasses.

Now you are ready to glass, if yours glasses are 10x they are marginal in how steady you can hold them, people varies but 10x is the magnification that can do with some serious help in holding the glasses.

Sit down and brace your elbows against your knees or sunk them into your stomach looking for the best stable position, grasp you binos with both hands but leave your index fingers free and anchor them against your temples, or alternatively grasp the edge of your cap’s bill to add another anchor point. What you are looking for is to minimize or cancel any tremors, as a jumping up and down picture magnified 10x will not let you appreciate the detail that you bought the glasses for.

With the 8x you have a little more freedom from those tremors, I have a very steady hand (I am a watchmaker) and can hold 8x glasses with one hand for relatively quick looks, but it is not recommended, after all glasses are not for quick looks.

Don’t scan with glasses, your vision should be concentrated in the center of your view, and the glasses when moving, should be moving in very small increments when you are sure that the picture that you are seeing is completely understood by your brain. 

The part of the eye that does the stationary looking and captures detail is very small; it is called the macula and covers only two degrees of your vision. When looking through 8x glasses this angle decrease to ¼  of a degree, so if you want to capture the detail that you pay so much money for, keep your glasses steady and look through the center of them.

The crouch and the belly down position are also glassing positions that should be not overlooked, take a tip from African hunters and steady your glasses in the standing position with the aid of a mono pod or shooting sticks or even a walking stick.

In carrying your glasses you can do as the African white hunters do and use a long strap to place them out of the way in the left side of your body at waist level and under your arm, or hang them from your neck but with a very short strap, so they ride high on your chest and will not swing and strike another object when you bend down.

There are in the market some harnesses that will keep your binoculars close to your body when you move around, but they usually interfere with other equipment, at least in my case as I wear a back pack most of the time but for those that carry only the glasses those harnesses work well.

All the best
Watchmaker


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## Flintlock1776 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Enjoy your new binos*

I found Vortex optics worked for me. I found a guy over on AT selling them so I got one 10x42 for well below what MSRP was. Legit seller as I checked him out with Vortex too. Great binos in low light but a 'no questions' asked warranty from binos made in the USA (Wisconsin ) did it for me. They just came out with rifle scopes too!
http://www.vortexoptics.com/

They are new to the market but as people find them and use them, they are gaining speed.


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## Flintlock1776 (Sep 9, 2007)

*all look good*

Nice detail info and good pics.

Try http://www.vortexoptics.com/

I got a pair of 10x42 Sidewinders for $200 from a guy over on AT. I checked with Vortex to make sure he is a legit dealer and he was. Much better pricing than MSRP.

Made in USA   No one has a warranty to match theirs. This company will be making inroads in the marketplace for sure.

I have Leupold on my rifles but next time I need a scope I am goning to try the new rifle scopes Vortex just came out with.


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## Allen Waters (Sep 10, 2007)

any one looking for optics should check out the optic zone.com  best prices i have found.


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## watchmaker (Sep 20, 2007)

LEUPOLD KATMAI 6X32
BINOCULARS

I must be off my rocker. I have binoculars coming out of my ears and I just went out and ordered another.

This time the culprit that captured my heart is the Leupold Wind River Katmai binoculars, a roof prism model that is quite compact and light but offers superior viewing compared to full sized premium binoculars.

I had seen them before in catalogues such as Cabela’s and Red Head, but I never got interested because I thought they were only available in 8x32.
Having recently bought the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 binoculars, I became interested in seeing what others models they offered and discovered that the Katmai were also available in 6x32.

The reason that I am particular about the six power binoculars is that they offer a perfect magnification for the kind of close woods hunting I do.
 When available in the 32 mm sized objectives, I am getting a 5.33 mm of exit pupil, giving good quality optics; the right pupil opening for the low light condition that I often glass under. I never saw any reason to own them in 8x32, as I will be getting only a 4 mm of eye pupil: no doubt good for daylight, but no good for the use I put binoculars through.
If I am going to use an eight power, then it will have to have 42 mm objectives to give me 5.25 mm of eye pupil. I already have two great pairs of glasses in that size (the Pentax and the Nikon) and I use them often, but the new Leupold Katmai is going to fulfill the same task, using less bulk and weight, which is important for me in certain instances.

Here is a picture of them together so you can appreciate the size difference.  From left to right: the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 Porro prisms, the Leuopold Katmai 6x32, the Nikon Monarch 8x42, and the Pentax DCF 8x42.







I am fifty miles from New York City, so it is not possible for me to go to check binoculars every time I have a whim for them (and it happens often), so I ordered the Katmai over the mail knowing that you will not always get something over the mail that will fulfill your expectations. No such problem occurred with the Katmai binoculars, though: they are great and exactly what I expected them to be for a glass of this price and more.






I performed the usual checks and was amply satisfied with the optical quality and mechanical precision of the glasses.  The ergonomics are also great for a glass of this size, and I was well pleased with my purchase.
One aspect of this purchase is worth mentioning: when looking at the Katmai 8x32 that Cabela's and Red Head have in their catalogues, the price for them was hovering around $400 to $420. I bought the Katmai 6x32 over the web for $289 shipped.
Now the question is how they compare optically with the lower priced ($98) Porro prism Leupold Yosemite binoculars, and if the $200 difference is noticeable in the optical quality.
If that difference is there, I can’t notice it!  Both glasses performed well in my low light test and both are sharp and with enough resolution to satisfy the most rabid birdie.
We all know that roof prisms are more expensive and difficult to make well, so part of the money goes toward that end, perhaps of influence in the price is the fact that the Katmai are made in Japan and the Yosemite in China; we know that our money buys more Yuan than Yen.






So what is going to happen to the Yosemite 6x32 now that my new love is the Katmai? No problem on that end, since my son already declared ownership of the Yosemite, as he recently took them on a trip to Florida’s Everglades, using them in the Aninha trail and in the Flamingo point.
He came back saying, “Dad, you will never these back; they are great glasses!” Now if I can just hide the Katmai from him until he goes to college in September, I will be fine.

For those that don’t understand the obsession that possesses me, I am here to tell you that there is nothing better than to look through quality glasses. I am just in a rush to finish typing this to go and sit in my patio and look for the red-tailed hawk that has been visiting us here lately.

Cheers,

Watchmaker


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## Jetjockey (Sep 28, 2007)

Before anyone buys new binoculars make sure to check out cameralandny.com and talk to Doug.  They carry the higher end brands but can hook you up with great prices.  I picked up a pair of Minox HG's for about $200 less than optic zone, binoculars.com, or any of the others.. Cameraland is awesome to deal with..


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## Predator56 (Oct 1, 2007)

Jetjockey said:


> Before anyone buys new binoculars make sure to check out cameralandny.com and talk to Doug.  They carry the higher end brands but can hook you up with great prices.  I picked up a pair of Minox HG's for about $200 less than optic zone, binoculars.com, or any of the others.. Cameraland is awesome to deal with..



yep


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## MCBUCK (Oct 4, 2007)

If any one is looking for binos or has a question.....ask the watchmaker.  He guided me to the Nikon Monarch 8x42's and I will be thankful to him for it.  they were every thing watchmaker said they would be.  I bought my ATB's for $289.00 in the Team Realtree camo (APG) and couldn't be happier. The fading light isn't a problem any more for my weak eye, and the sigh tpicture they give me is superb.  You can read the county sticker on a car tag at 500 yards !!
Not only does the Nikons give me unbelievable clarity, but they came at a price that I could afford.  And price was a concern for me, but at $289. for the quality I got .....well, let's just say that a buddy who has a pair of Swaro's was impressed.
Watchmaker, thank you.  I owe you one.
Moe


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## watchmaker (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you Moe, glad I could help.

All the best
Watchmaker


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## Jack Flynn (Oct 6, 2007)

Somehow I feel that most don't understand optics, especially the term exit pupil. One thing right up front is the larger the exit pupil the better is not correct. When you can match the opening of your eye as the pupil is dialated for the amount of light present at any given time day, dawn, dusk, or night it doesn't matter, when you can match the exact size of your pupil with the exit of the light coming through the scope you are as good as it gets. More light is as bad as not enough. Matching the exit pupil with a certain individuals pupil opening at any given time is the deal. The average opening of a persons pupil varies, each set of bino's is gonna be different for each person. Bruz 3.5 to 4 mm opening is about as perfect as you can get for your eye's. Mine are the same. I have a question for you guy's.....Ever have to look away from a scope or set of binoculars at dawn or dusk for a few seconds then look back through them only to see a little better? That would be letting your pupil dialate to the size of what ever the exit size on your scope or bino's would be showing you with to much exit pupil..............................Questions comments


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## watchmaker (Oct 6, 2007)

As it is impossible to center EXACTLY the pupil of you eye with the little spot of light in the binoculars, the more eye pupil the better.
And when we are talking about scopes it is even worst, (because they are used at a distance of 3 inches or more) why you think the low light scopes have objectives as big as 50 to 56 mm? (It is of course to deliver a BIGGER eye pupil to the ocular)

Your statement is faulty and is against all established rules for low light glassing, just look in your library for a good book about optics, and you will "see".

What you probably had hear is that all the extra light coming out of a binocular with more of a 7 mm eye pupil is wasted, because the eye only opens as much as 7 mm in total darkness.

As I explained to you, centering the eye in low light conditions is a problem, and all extra light is very welcome, even if it overflows your pupil. (I should know, I worked for forty years with my eyes as a watchmaker).
Night glasses have a 7mm eye pupil and after you have use one in low light against one of your 3 or 4 mm glasses you will not realize how wrong your statement was.

Watchmaker


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## Jack Flynn (Oct 7, 2007)

watchmaker said:


> As it is impossible to center EXACTLY the pupil of you eye with the little spot of light in the binoculars, the more eye pupil the better.
> And when we are talking about scopes it is even worst, (because they are used at a distance of 3 inches or more) why you think the low light scopes have objectives as big as 50 to 56 mm? (It is of course to deliver a BIGGER eye pupil to the ocular)
> 
> Your statement is faulty and is against all established rules for low light glassing, just look in your library for a good book about optics, and you will "see".
> ...



WM you sound like you took my post personally. Please don't. I was just stating the facts as I know them and from literature from Leupold, Zeiss, and some older Outdoor writers that I highly respect. You might want to reread some of the literature.


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## formula1 (Oct 9, 2007)

*RE:*

Thanks to this post, I bought me a pair of Nikon Monarch 8x42 Realtrees for $250 brand new.  I must say I didn't know what I was missing with a good quality binocular but these things are amazing.  Thanks for all the advice.


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## creekhunter (Oct 26, 2007)

*Nikon Monarch 8x42 or Leupold Katmai 6x32???*

Guys:

I need your ideas on which of the two above binoculars would be best suited for my needs:

At 54, my eyes are not what they used to be. I wear bi-focals, but I have to remove them to use the cheap 8x32 binoculars I currently use.  Then, If I see a deer, I have to put my glasses back on to look down my scope.  I would like to be able to wear my bi-focals while glassing. 

I hunt close in the woods and most of my glassing will be 100-yards, or less. 

What do you recommend?


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## MCBUCK (Oct 26, 2007)

creekhunter said:


> Guys:
> 
> I need your ideas on which of the two above binoculars would be best suited for my needs:
> 
> ...



I just bought a pair of Nikon Monarch 8x42's.  They are great ! i would highly reccomend them to you as they have the "twist" down eye cups for eye glass wearers. They are cisp clear , and very sharp.  Not to mention afordable....I just paid $289.00 for mine.  Ask they guy that goes by "watchmaker".  He guided me to them , and it may be the best optic purchase I have ever made..
Moe


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## urbaneruralite (Oct 27, 2007)

Are Vortex products actually made in the US? I saw on the site where it said the company was based in WI, but it never said they made anything there.


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## urbaneruralite (Oct 27, 2007)

Did some searching. Looks like the lower end stuff is made in China. Other stuff is prolly Phillipines or Japan.


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## creekhunter (Oct 27, 2007)

MCBUCK:

Thanks for the reply. I read this thread and decided to go ahead and order a pair of the Nikon Monarch 8x42's. I paid $258.84 with shipping. 

I found that you cannot get the Leupold Katmai's in camo (only black and tan). 

I'll let you know what I think when they arrive.


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## Jetjockey (Oct 30, 2007)

Just some info for you guys looking at Bino's... I bought a pair of Minox HG's from cameraland in NY.. I now have a self imposed "issue" with my binoculars.  I called cameraland and they put me in touch with a guy from Minox.  I told him the story and he told me to send them back to him after hunting season, he said they would be covered under warranty.  I was simply amazed.  I wasn't looking for warranty coverage since it was my fault, but they are still going to cover it for me.  All I can say is that both cameraland and Minox are treating me very, very well.  Cameraland customer service can't be beat.  Just some food for thought for you guys.. This is the reason Cameraland gets all my optic business.


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## watchmaker (Oct 31, 2007)

THE BUSHNELL CUSTOM COMPACT 
6X BY 25MM BINOCULARS

Hi guys,
This is for all the old timers that bought small binoculars in the 70’s.

This was the most popular and highly regarded binoculars in the decade of the seventies and beyond, five guys in my hunting club had them, I bought one in the middle seventies and another for my wife a couple of years later.







Mine had the center screw hinge attachment for the strap and my wife’s was a little more modern with the strap attachments on the side of the body.






In the pictures you can see my wife’s binocular with the optional rubber covering that was sold by Bushnell, it makes the binocular appear a little bigger, but it was a great noise reducer and helped with grasping the small binocular.
It will be a surprise to many to learn that the Custom Compact is still made today by Bushnell, in a slightly changed outside appearance, with a street price of about $220USD.
However they sell the 7x26, instead of the six powers. I consider the six power a better magnification for small binoculars as the exit pupil is 4.16 mm, a much better aperture for looking under low light conditions.


http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-7x26mm-custom-compact-binoculars-120726.html


Hope you guys have enjoyed the trip down memory lane.
All the best

Watchmaker


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## pcsolutions1 (Nov 11, 2007)

I have a question about the focus on the Nikons.  I have been trying them out in the stores because they are so highly rated everywhere I read about them.  The problem I am having is that they seem to be very finicky on the focus adjustment.  I seem to have a problem with the adjustment being too fast.  I have also tried the Leupold cascade and the adjustment seems much finer and less finicky to get a clear picture.  Any thoughts.  Anything I read says the Nikons are the best glasses for $300 so I'm not sure what to do.  I like them both, but find the Leupolds easier on my eyes.  Whenever you read about recommended binos though, Leupold very rarely makes the list.  Help?


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## watchmaker (Nov 13, 2007)

I haven't tried the Leupold Cascade, but they have a new type of internal focus (which makes them waterproof).

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold...ernal-focus-porro-prism-binoculars-60643.html

If this is what you like and feel more confortable with, Leupold have a very good reputation and I am sure the optics are top notch, the two models I have, are.

Best regards
Watchmaker


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## pcsolutions1 (Nov 17, 2007)

I went to another store and tried another pair of Nikons.  I think there was just something wrong with the first ones I tried.  I think I'm going to order the Nikons.  I couldn't tell any difference in them at BPS between the Nikon and Leupolds.  The Nikon warranty is better so they will get the nod.  Thanks for all of your info and knowledge on this subject.  I'm sure you have been very helpful to others as well.

Tom


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## creekhunter (Nov 17, 2007)

*Nikon Monarch Binoculars*

At the recommendation of Watchmaker and several others on this post, I bought a pair of Nikon Monarch binoculars and I love them. I've owned several pairs over the years, but nothing compares with these. If you are thinking of buying a new pair, you can't go wrong with the Nikon Monarch 8x42. 

Thanks to everyone who recommended them!


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