# Is it Ok to Work at a Place that Sells Booze?



## ronpasley (Oct 27, 2010)

Is it wrong to work in the kitchen of a place which sells alcohol even if I have nothing to do with the drinks directly? ...

"In my judgment, you are helping in a bad business.  I would not be willing even to eat in a place where drinks are served, much less to work there.  I believe if it is right for you to work there, it is right for people to eat there.  If it is all right to eat there, then it is all right for people to run the place as it is run and to sell drinks.  But that is obviously wrong.  They ought not to sell drinks, and you ought not to make a living out of as place that sells drinks, and I ought not to eat there and give my O.K. and my endorsement to the place which is selling drinks."

SOURCE: Dr. Rice, Here is My Question..., by Dr. John R. Rice, pg. 93, ISBN: 0-87398-158-8, Sword of the Lord Publishers


----------



## formula1 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re:*

No.
Nehemiah did it.  It was his job as a cupbearer:

Nehemiah 2:1
In the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, I took up the wine and gave it to the king.

John 2
Jesus first miracle was making wine for a wedding. Now why would he do that if it was sin.

The sin of booze is the abuse of the same not the serving or even using in moderation. Trouble is most many can't handle and discipline themselves.  These folks should stay far away from it.  It is just simple wisdom.

The comment you posted is not in keeping with the teaching of scripture. It is a man's opinion, and a legalistic approach at best.  Of course if you are young in the Lord, legalism is often a good schoolmaster until maturity comes around.

And since I went and read Fritz's post, I'll add that I was a 3rd generation drunk until God got my attention! Praise to His name!


----------



## polkhunt (Oct 27, 2010)

it is not a sin to drink alcohol so it would not bother me. it is only a sin to be drunk. You might have a case with Provebs 23:20 but I think it is talking about taking part with them and not just being around people who are drunk but I could see it either way.


----------



## FritzMichaels (Oct 27, 2010)

Nothing good can come from alcohol. Its a poison. I dont want to stand before God and explain why I put poison in the temple... The argument over whether it is sinful will rage forever. Many of the 'great' prophets refused to drink. John the baptist did not drink and was considered 'great'.  My goal is to please the Lord. So to answer the OP, if the job is necessary, and you are not helping others get drunk and possibly crash their car on the way home, and it doesn't weaken your own walk... Its probably ok assuming its not one of those cat cat clubs.


----------



## packrat (Oct 27, 2010)

*Hmmmmm?*



FritzMichaels said:


> Nothing good can come from alcohol. Its a poison. I dont want to stand before God and explain why I put poison in the temple... The argument over whether it is sinful will rage forever. Many of the 'great' prophets refused to drink. John the baptist did not drink and was considered 'great'.  My goal is to please the Lord.



Just outta curiousity, let me ask.

Which is worse for your body?
1. A deep fried chicken breast
2. A glass of wine

And don't get me wrong, I can't stand to be around drunks. But it does not bother me if a man chooses to drink in strict moderation.


----------



## apoint (Oct 27, 2010)

Your body is a living sacrifice, so the less you sin the better.
 One who never drank would be better off. Bible says to be sober.
 Actually selling and serving drinks would be worse than drinking one beer or one glass of wine because you cause others to stumble.
  Seek purity at every chance would be better. I will admit I do rarely, rarely, have one glass of wine, so I'm not holier than thou. Forgive me.


----------



## FritzMichaels (Oct 27, 2010)

packrat said:


> Just outta curiousity, let me ask.
> 
> Which is worse for your body?
> 1. A deep fried chicken breast
> ...



answer: the chicken breast is worse
but let me ask you. How many bible verses do we have like
this one in the bible about alcohol?

(Prov 20:1)Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

There are dozens. I am just trying to be wise and pleasing to God. As a former drunkard... I can testify that alcohol is not good. Every DUMB thing I ever did in my early years were because I was drunk. I almost lost my life numerous times because of being drunk. But God placed his hand of protection over me, for some reason. I didnt deserve his protection but for some reason, he kept me alive.  Anyway, i dont think people understand alcohol unless they have once been a drunkard.

I am not judging others if they do. Alcohol does not work for me because of my addiction to it. Alcohol to me is like a potato chip... "I cant have just one"...


----------



## apoint (Oct 27, 2010)

packrat said:


> Just outta curiousity, let me ask.
> 
> Which is worse for your body?
> 1. A deep fried chicken breast
> ...


 
The glass of wine has carcinogens in it and can make you drunk and chicken is not a sin unless your a gluten.


----------



## ronpasley (Oct 27, 2010)

I thought this was interesting I read it from Dr. Rice source.

I don't drink alcohol because it can be a stumbling block for other and my kid's. If I show my son it is ok to drink responsible who knows he could be the next drunk in town for his lips could become addicted to it. Satan will use anything to destroy us so why take the chance.

I know what the bible say's about it but I also see what it does to people how it kills and destroy's families. 

So drink up and be merry


----------



## apoint (Oct 27, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> I thought this was interesting I read it from Dr. Rice source.
> 
> I don't drink alcohol because it can be a stumbling block for other and my kid's. If I show my son it is ok to drink responsible who knows he could be the next drunk in town for his lips could become addicted to it. Satan will use anything to destroy us so why take the chance.
> 
> ...



My Dad use to say the same thing. Dont become a stumbling block for others.


----------



## NHburns (Oct 27, 2010)

*This has nothing to do with Georgia outdoor news*

I've never seen an article in the magazine on alcohol.


----------



## ronpasley (Oct 27, 2010)

NHburns said:


> I've never seen an article in the magazine on alcohol.




It's not in the GON magazine

SOURCE: Dr. Rice, Here is My Question..., by Dr. John R. Rice, pg. 93, ISBN: 0-87398-158-8, Sword of the Lord Publishers


----------



## biggtruxx (Oct 27, 2010)

Lets just say this. If it makes you feel like you have sinned or you feel guilty or bad for doing so and now you are asking your fellow man to tell you its ok......... well you can catch my drift im sure. I think that some things even though not listed as a sin can be if a man feels guilty about it. It may not be a holy sin but it is a sin against themselves. Hope this makes since to you. I know what I mean anyway


----------



## apoint (Oct 27, 2010)

biggtruxx said:


> Lets just say this. If it makes you feel like you have sinned or you feel guilty or bad for doing so and now you are asking your fellow man to tell you its ok......... well you can catch my drift im sure. I think that some things even though not listed as a sin can be if a man feels guilty about it. It may not be a holy sin but it is a sin against themselves. Hope this makes since to you. I know what I mean anyway



Huh?


----------



## Dominic (Oct 27, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> Nothing good can come from alcohol. Its a poison. I dont want to stand before God and explain why I put poison in the temple... The argument over whether it is sinful will rage forever. Many of the 'great' prophets refused to drink. John the baptist did not drink and was considered 'great'.  My goal is to please the Lord. So to answer the OP, if the job is necessary, and you are not helping others get drunk and possibly crash their car on the way home, and it doesn't weaken your own walk... Its probably ok assuming its not one of those cat cat clubs.



No offense intended but maybe we should all post photos of ourselves before we talk about how we should treat “the temple of the Lord”. I would guess many of us are more then a little overweight. Unless you are eating nothing but fresh organic vegetables and organics meats, and absolutely no “food like substances” (if it comes in a box and you can only pronounce one of the fifty ingredients in it, then it is not food), or meat pumped full of chemicals, then you are doing more harm to “the temple of the Lord” then alcohol does.


----------



## biggtruxx (Oct 27, 2010)

apoint said:


> Huh?


 
In other words if you feel guilty then you shouldnt do it. I believe in God, the afterlife and that Jesus walked the earth. I also enjoy a nice German beer every now and then and I dont feel guilty of doing that. I would however feel guilty if I drank it before going to church. Make sense?


----------



## Dominic (Oct 27, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> I don't drink alcohol because it can be a stumbling block for other and my kid's.




There is a reason diabetes rates are going up.

What lessons are we teaching our kids in the way that we eat?

How do our eating habits affect "the temple of the Lord"?


----------



## FritzMichaels (Oct 27, 2010)

Forgive me for wanting to please the Lord.


----------



## Dominic (Oct 27, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> Forgive me for wanting to please the Lord.



Do you think being fat (not saying you are) is pleasing to the Lord and is it any better then drinking?

Are you treating "the temple of the Lord" as it should be treated?


----------



## ronpasley (Oct 27, 2010)

Dominic said:


> There is a reason diabetes rates are going up.
> 
> What lessons are we teaching our kids in the way that we eat?
> 
> How do our eating habits affect "the temple of the Lord"?




very true


----------



## Dominic (Oct 27, 2010)

In answer to your OP Ron, I think if you have a real issue with it, then you should not.

I have no issues with the consumption of alcohol in moderation, if I worked somewhere that was not responsible enough to moderate their customers, then I would not work there anymore.


----------



## packrat (Oct 27, 2010)

*?*

It's all about ones convictions, you must live as the Lord leads you, not as man tells you. If alcohol creates a barrier in your relationship with God; then lose it. Same goes with sports, worldly relationships, possessions, slothfulness, gossip, etc....


----------



## Six million dollar ham (Oct 27, 2010)

> Is it Ok to Work at a Place that Sells Booze?



Most definitely.


----------



## olcowman (Oct 27, 2010)

apoint said:


> The glass of wine has carcinogens in it and can make you drunk and chicken is not a sin unless your a gluten.



Actually... many in the medical and research field suggest the drinking of wine daily, (I think 1 one 8oz. glass?). Studies have shown the consumption of red wine on a regular basis may be a preventative against coronary disease and some forms of cancer, as well beneficial to the digestive system and might even preserve cognitive function in the elderly.

Wine has been served and prescribed for thousands of years and before the 1700s drinking anything else (i.e. water) was sort of risky healthwise. Most of the pathogens that threaten humans are inhibited or killed off by the acids and alcohols in wine. Because of this, wine was considered to be a safer drink than much of the available water up until the 18th century. I did a thesis in college on the history and developement of alcohol consumption and specifically the political suppression of alcohol thru interpretation of scripture.

I am pretty sure that deep fried chicken breast is lacking as far as any health benefits and i don't recall any in the medical field suggesting we partake of it on a daily basis. No sir, good ol' greasy,dripping lard on your chin, deep fried chicken's popularity and it's unhealthy effects on society can be laid at the feet of our Grannies and Col. Harlan Sanders.

I think that gluttony of anything is a sin if i understand it right... heck you can kill yourself by drinking too much water. It doesn't make sense to me to single out alcohol and make it some sort of 'special' sin especially in light of the fact that Jesus sure seemed to get along alright with a little now and then.


----------



## Lowjack (Oct 27, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> Is it wrong to work in the kitchen of a place which sells alcohol even if I have nothing to do with the drinks directly? ...
> 
> "In my judgment, you are helping in a bad business.  I would not be willing even to eat in a place where drinks are served, much less to work there.  I believe if it is right for you to work there, it is right for people to eat there.  If it is all right to eat there, then it is all right for people to run the place as it is run and to sell drinks.  But that is obviously wrong.  They ought not to sell drinks, and you ought not to make a living out of as place that sells drinks, and I ought not to eat there and give my O.K. and my endorsement to the place which is selling drinks."
> 
> SOURCE: Dr. Rice, Here is My Question..., by Dr. John R. Rice, pg. 93, ISBN: 0-87398-158-8, Sword of the Lord Publishers



No there is nothing wrong with working in that place, now if you are going to drink then maybe it is wrong.

Remember the Asyrian Captain who came to the prophet Elijah To Be heal of leprosy after he was cured he made a vow to the God of Israel and he asked Elijah if it was OK to enter the pagan temple because he had to accompany the King in His pagan worship, Elijah said go and be in peace".
If you look at it there are very few places to work where sin is not found.


----------



## ronpasley (Oct 27, 2010)

Dominic said:


> In answer to your OP Ron, I think if you have a real issue with it, then you should not.



I don't drink so  I have no issue with it.


----------



## Jeffriesw (Oct 28, 2010)

Dominic said:


> In answer to your OP Ron, I think if you have a real issue with it, then you should not.
> 
> I have no issues with the consumption of alcohol in moderation, if I worked somewhere that was not responsible enough to moderate their customers, then I would not work there anymore.



X's 2


----------



## Israel (Oct 28, 2010)

Have you prayed? Asked the Lord? Enquired of the Holy Spirit?


----------



## Havana Dude (Oct 28, 2010)

I think you can work in that place as long as you don't look at the alcohol. Just don't work there on Sunday serving lunch to the church crowd, cause you would be causing them to stumble(making you serve them/work on Sunday) which in turn makes you stumble because of working while you should be in church, which makes both parties stumblers. All the while, the preacher is still preaching, wondering why folks are leaving early.

Look, I am obviously being sarcastic, but there is some truth in what i wrote. Some folks can sure make a mountain out of a mole hill.


----------



## hummdaddy (Oct 28, 2010)

if you don't need the job find another place to work


----------



## apoint (Oct 28, 2010)

biggtruxx said:


> In other words if you feel guilty then you shouldnt do it. I believe in God, the afterlife and that Jesus walked the earth. I also enjoy a nice German beer every now and then and I dont feel guilty of doing that. I would however feel guilty if I drank it before going to church. Make sense?



 I was just kidding with you brother, I understood you.
  My take on this subject is, Its NOT what we think, ITS what God says that matters..  ANY sin separates us from God, rather it be a yard or a mile separation.  Once more, Its not what WE THINK.


----------



## THREEJAYS (Oct 28, 2010)

I will go on record saying I beleive more bad than good comes from it.Now it gets hard,do I spend my money at walmart,grocery stores etc.that sell it.Do I eat out where they serve it.I am in a sense supporting it if I do.It is mostly going to boil down to an individual choice,just be convinced in what ever you decide.


----------



## Gabassmaster (Oct 28, 2010)

THREEJAYS said:


> I will go on record saying I beleive more bad than good comes from it.Now it gets hard,do I spend my money at walmart,grocery stores etc.that sell it.Do I eat out where they serve it.I am in a sense supporting it if I do.It is mostly going to boil down to an individual choice,just be convinced in what ever you decide.



My preacher use to be the sales manager at A&P before he was called to preach and when he was called to preach he quit just for the sheer fact they sold alchohol.


----------



## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

apoint said:


> The glass of wine has carcinogens in it and can make you drunk and chicken is not a sin unless your a gluten.


Grilled meat has carcinogens in it too.


----------



## dawg2 (Oct 28, 2010)

Dominic said:


> In answer to your OP Ron, I think if you have a real issue with it, then you should not.
> 
> I have no issues with the consumption of alcohol in moderation, if I worked somewhere that was not responsible enough to moderate their customers, then I would not work there anymore.



What he said above.

Jesus drank wine.


----------



## speedcop (Oct 28, 2010)

how else can you really carry out the great commission if you pick and choose your location. Jesus was notorious for entering places where the sinners were. I dont bother me to eat or shop at a place that serves alcohol. I dont drink, and if i'm asked i'll gladly share my opinion along with the gospel. I'm not advocating that anyone should run to places that serve and start preaching unless you want to. When I see people say grace before they eat in restaurants as I do, often as I leave I will stop at their table and thank them for their example as it strengthens me and lets them know they are not alone. I quess what I'm saying is when it comes to my faith in God, regardless of the location, I aint backing up!


----------



## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

What is said about it in Proverbs 31:6 and 7 again?

Give strong drink to those about to perish and wine to those with a heavy heart.

Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his misery no more. 

Now I'd be the first to tell anyone who has an addiction problem that addiction makes a de facto god of the thing you are addicted to. So for those who have that addiction, drink of any sort is a problem of a different sort.

Because if you have been addicted to something you know that it holds a power over you, it will get between you and your God.

If however you are not challenged with that addiction issue moderation in drink seems to have no biblical prohibition.
Warnings about the effect it has on judgment abound.


----------



## Havana Dude (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> What is said about it in Proverbs 31:6 and 7 again?
> 
> Give strong drink to those about to perish and wine to those with a heavy heart.
> 
> ...



TTom, you bring up a point I would like to discuss(or just give my opinion). I have no desire to argue, please understand. When one says that these things become your God, I personally don't agree. For something to be considered "my God" it would have to stand up to the same level as My real God, Jesus Christ. I hold no thing above him, as things will not forgive you, or discipline you or get you into heaven. I've been drunk before. I did not consider the drinking my God. I still drink a few beers from time to time, but it is not what/who I worship. We could apply the label "god" to everything we do. Work, hunt, fish, dating, etc., when it is done on a consistant basis. Thats all I'm saying. We all at times put EVERYTHING before God. When I go to work, I put it before God. When I go fishing, I put it before God, etc etc. When God is in your heart, he is with you always. That is how I can say these "things" are not my God. Maybe I rambled and don't make any sense to anyone but myself, but it would'nt be the first time. Thanks for listening.


----------



## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

Havana no I get what you are saying, I think maybe I placed the stress on the wrong aspect.

ADDICTION becomes your god, if you are not addicted then it's not the same discussion.

When you are an addict you'll do anything for that next fix.
I was a 30+ year smoker and I've gotten up at 2 am to run to the store because we were out of smokes. You can't get many folks out of bed at 8 am for church.

But an addict at full strength will do just about anything to get that next fix.
We've all seen examples of addicts who sell their kids for a fix, sell their bodies for a fix, lie cheat and steal for a fix.
When it gets to that point the addiction has become a defacto god.

I'm not seeing this as an argument, but rather a discussion.
And I'm seeing the parts of the description that fail as well.


I find no issue with drinking in moderation, if you are someone who can drink in moderation. Some folks can't, they are addicted/alcoholics and for them they must avoid it entirely.

Hopefully I made that a bit more clear.


----------



## tomtlb66 (Oct 28, 2010)

I have often wondered about this situation as well. This is my belief on the subject, doesn't mean I am right, just my opinion. In my family, alcohol, now replaced with drugs and alcohol, has never done anything positive in my life. So, I would feel I could not sell alcohol with my job, but if I were working in a grocery store that sells it, I could not control that. Yes, it would make me feel uncomfortable, thats all I can say.


----------



## Havana Dude (Oct 28, 2010)

TTom said:


> Havana no I get what you are saying, I think maybe I placed the stress on the wrong aspect.
> 
> ADDICTION becomes your god, if you are not addicted then it's not the same discussion.
> 
> ...



Good discussion, Thanks. I think we pretty much see it the same way, I just have a weird way of explaining myself.


----------



## TTom (Oct 28, 2010)

Cool good discussion, don't feel lonely on the weird way of splainin stuff.


----------



## packrat (Oct 28, 2010)

*good*



Havana Dude said:


> TTom, you bring up a point I would like to discuss(or just give my opinion). I have no desire to argue, please understand. When one says that these things become your God, I personally don't agree. For something to be considered "my God" it would have to stand up to the same level as My real God, Jesus Christ. I hold no thing above him, as things will not forgive you, or discipline you or get you into heaven. I've been drunk before. I did not consider the drinking my God. I still drink a few beers from time to time, but it is not what/who I worship. We could apply the label "god" to everything we do. Work, hunt, fish, dating, etc., when it is done on a consistant basis. Thats all I'm saying. We all at times put EVERYTHING before God. When I go to work, I put it before God. When I go fishing, I put it before God, etc etc. When God is in your heart, he is with you always. That is how I can say these "things" are not my God. Maybe I rambled and don't make any sense to anyone but myself, but it would'nt be the first time. Thanks for listening.



Good post HD, actually this forum takes valuable time away from each of us that could be used more toward our relationships with God. "I'm guilty"; But is it a god? No.
But if we spend so much time doing things that create a spiritual wall in our relationship with him, THEN, we should lose them.


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 29, 2010)

ok im an expert on this, 
Proverbs 23:29-35 (Amplified Bible)
29Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness and dimness of eyes?

    30Those who tarry long at the wine, those who go to seek and try mixed wine.(A)

    31Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the wineglass, when it goes down smoothly.

    32At the last it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

    33[Under the influence of wine] your eyes will behold strange things [and loose women] and your mind will utter things turned the wrong way [untrue, incorrect, and petulant].

    34Yes, you will be [as unsteady] as he who lies down in the midst of the sea, and [as open to disaster] as he who lies upon the top of a mast.

    35You will say, They struck me, but I was not hurt! They beat me [as with a hammer], but I did not feel it! When shall I awake? I will crave and seek more wine again [and escape reality].

this could be my lifes story, I first tried a beer when i was 18 and spit it out, at 22 I met some guys that were heavy drinkers, I started hanging out with them and soon started to drink rum&coke, then vodka, then shots. etc.etc. I wish to God that I never met them now. I have not been sober more than 6 months since then, but with the help of some brothers on this site and at church I know I can stop for good, and I have made up my heart to stop. alchool is evil and nothing good will ever come of it, and in time most people will fall under its power, my step sister and her husband started drinking a bottle of wine every now and then, now 15 years later they have 3 or 4 a nite. ask yourself why drink? take it from me I have been on cocaine ,pot, etc.(clean for 15 years) and nothing is more powerful than booze to kick.


----------



## Disciple1st (Oct 29, 2010)

Be careful what we approve before God! Many alcoholics have come from thinking that one or two is ok.....


----------



## packrat (Oct 29, 2010)

*true*



Disciple1st said:


> Be careful what we approve before God! Many alcoholics have come from thinking that one or two is ok.....



True, same goes for any other separating vice or device.


----------



## PHIL M (Oct 29, 2010)

Is it a sin to eat boogers?


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 29, 2010)

PHIL M said:


> Is it a sin to eat boogers?



well they say " you are what you eat "


----------



## pileit (Oct 29, 2010)

PHIL M said:


> Is it a sin to eat boogers?





Are you addicted?


----------



## chairgunner (Oct 29, 2010)

takes the edge of the heroin


----------



## apoint (Oct 29, 2010)

PHIL M said:


> Is it a sin to eat boogers?



I heard of using olives or limes but never boogers.


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 29, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> Nothing good can come from alcohol. Its a poison. I dont want to stand before God and explain why I put poison in the temple... The argument over whether it is sinful will rage forever. Many of the 'great' prophets refused to drink. John the baptist did not drink and was considered 'great'.  My goal is to please the Lord. So to answer the OP, if the job is necessary, and you are not helping others get drunk and possibly crash their car on the way home, and it doesn't weaken your own walk... Its probably ok assuming its not one of those cat cat clubs.



Many foods you put in the temple are bad for it or even eating to much of the good foods are harming the temple so what would be the difference?

I don't drink by the way so not trying to justify it just asking a question of those judging others.


----------



## packrat (Oct 29, 2010)

*????*



PHIL M said:


> Is it a sin to eat boogers?



Only if your family needs them more than you do.


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 29, 2010)

Dominic said:


> Do you think being fat (not saying you are) is pleasing to the Lord and is it any better then drinking?
> 
> Are you treating "the temple of the Lord" as it should be treated?



LOL It must be he made me that way and have been most all my life.


----------



## apoint (Oct 29, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Many foods you put in the temple are bad for it or even eating to much of the good foods are harming the temple so what would be the difference?
> 
> I don't drink by the way so not trying to justify it just asking a question of those judging others.



Its not about judging others, its about what the bible says.


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 29, 2010)

apoint said:


> Its not about judging others, its about what the bible says.


If you're not guilty of any of these then you're perfect if your over weight or eat fried foods, Bread, rice that clog your arteries and are bad for your heart(which I am just as guilty as the rest)and on and on you're just as guilty of harming the Temple as someone drinking a glass of wine is. Talking about how what one does wrong is judging unless you know that person and see exactly how they live their lives and what they do. I'll let God sort out the right from wrong or good from bad I just try and live the best lifestyle i can as to what I believe..


----------



## PHIL M (Oct 29, 2010)

Only God, and jesus are perfect, and Jesus died for our sins. We as humans can never be perfect. And I'm not going to kid myself thinking I am. We can live a healthy life without meat. Is it a sin to hunt, and fish? If you dig deep enough, you can question just about everything. In that case...you should never leave your house. You might get into a stuation where you commit a sin. God knows I'm not perfect, but I will always try my best to live his way.


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 29, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> Nothing good can come from alcohol. Its a poison. I dont want to stand before God and explain why I put poison in the temple... The argument over whether it is sinful will rage forever. Many of the 'great' prophets refused to drink. John the baptist did not drink and was considered 'great'.  My goal is to please the Lord. So to answer the OP, if the job is necessary, and you are not helping others get drunk and possibly crash their car on the way home, and it doesn't weaken your own walk... Its probably ok assuming its not one of those cat cat clubs.



What do you do with Christ turning water into wine? I'd be very careful about calling it a poison.  Your statement would seem to implicate Christ in wrongdoing.  

What do you do with Christ drinking wine?  Yes, many of the "great" prophets refused to drink, but the "Greatest" Prophet did drink.  Paul encourages Timothy to drink wine.


----------



## apoint (Oct 29, 2010)

270 guy said:


> If you're not guilty of any of these then you're perfect if your over weight or eat fried foods, Bread, rice that clog your arteries and are bad for your heart(which I am just as guilty as the rest)and on and on you're just as guilty of harming the Temple as someone drinking a glass of wine is. Talking about how what one does wrong is judging unless you know that person and see exactly how they live their lives and what they do. I'll let God sort out the right from wrong or good from bad I just try and live the best lifestyle i can as to what I believe..



As I said above, Its not about what I think.   Eating food is not a sin, but the bible does say to be sober. Each individual has to make his own decision with how he walks with the Lord.


----------



## apoint (Oct 29, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> What do you do with Christ turning water into wine? I'd be very careful about calling it a poison.  Your statement would seem to implicate Christ in wrongdoing.
> 
> What do you do with Christ drinking wine?  Yes, many of the "great" prophets refused to drink, but the "Greatest" Prophet did drink.  Paul encourages Timothy to drink wine.



 Most say the wine Jesus made was "new wine" and not fermented yet. If Jesus got drunk He would not have been the perfect sacrifice. If Jesus was a stumbling block getting others drunk He would not be a perfect sacrifice.
 I hope this puts this wore out question to rest for the last time. Man is always looking for an excuse to cover his sin.


----------



## PHIL M (Oct 29, 2010)

apoint said:


> PHIL M said:
> 
> 
> > Only God, and jesus are perfect, and Jesus died for our sins. We as humans can never be perfect. And I'm not going to kid myself thinking I am. We can live a healthy life without meat. Is it a sin to hunt, and fish? If you dig deep enough, you can question just about everything. In that case...you should never leave your house. You might get into a stuation where you commit a sin. God knows I'm not perfect, but I will always try my best to live his way.[/QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> Most say the wine Jesus made was "new wine" and not fermented yet.



I don't think "most say" would be correct;  I think "some say" would be more accurate.  There is nothing in the text that indicates that it is not fermented.  I've read some of the arguments for it being wine that is not yet fermented.  On the whole, these arguments seem to argue from a presupposition that alcohol is evil and then arrive at the conclusion that the wine Christ made couldn't have been fermented.




> If Jesus got drunk He would not have been the perfect sacrifice.



Who said anything about Jesus being drunk?  I didn't.

 Matt.  11:18-19, "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds."

What is the point in John abstaining from wine if it doesn't contain alcohol?  Christ came eating, and they accuse him of eating in excess.   Christ came drinking, and they accuse him of drinking in excess.  Neither of which he did, but it makes no sense to accuse him of drinking in excess if he's not drinking fermented wine.  



> If Jesus was a stumbling block getting others drunk He would not be a perfect sacrifice.



This is a different argument than the "alcohol is evil" argument.  I assume you are taking this from Romans 14, which is an appeal to conscience and wisdom that we should not exercise our liberties if it is harmful to a brother.  But, by making this argument, you are admitting that drinking wine is something we have the freedom to do; therefore, it is not a sin in and of itself.  Rather, there are certain situations where, for the sake of a weaker brother, it is best to refrain.  Just know, if you make the stumbling block argument from Romans 14, you automatically concede that it is not a sin in and of itself. 



> I hope this puts this wore out question to rest for the last time. Man is always looking for an excuse to cover his sin.



Your comments certainly haven't put this question to rest.  Neither will mine.

So I'm looking for an excuse to cover my sin, huh?  I used to be a belligerent teetotaler.  One day I decided I was gonna settle it once and for all.  I was gonna read all the Scriptures on it so that I could convince everybody it was a sin.  I wanted it to be a sin so bad.  I went to Scripture hoping to prove it was a sin, and I came away convinced that it was not.  After studying it, I became convinced that it's a matter of conscience.

I'd be careful about accusing others of looking for an excuse to sin.  I'd also be careful about calling something a sin that Scripture does not explicitly call a sin.  I'd also be careful about talking to folks I don't even know like that.   But that's just me...


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 30, 2010)

Joseph Seiss, an outstanding Lutheran theologian of the nineteenth century, gives the following commentary on this text.

The history of strong drink is the history of ruin, of tears, of blood. It is, perhaps, the greatest curse that has ever scourged the earth. It is one of depravity's worst fruits-a giant demon of destruction. Men talk of earthquakes, storms, floods, conflagrations, famine, pestilence, despotism, and war; but intemperance in the use of intoxicating drinks has sent a volume of misery and woe into the stream of this world's history, more fearful and terrific than either of them. It is the Amazon and Mississippi among the rivers of wretchedness. It is the Alexander and Napoleon among the warriors upon the peace and good of man. It is like the pale horse of the Apocalypse whose rider is Death, and at whose heels follow Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and destruction. It is an evil which is limited to no age, no continent, no nation, no party, no sex, no period of life. It has taken the poor man at his toil and the rich man at his desk, the senator in the halls of state and the drayman on the street, the young man in his festivities and the old man in his repose, the priest at the altar and the layman in the pew, and plunged them together into a common ruin. It has raged equally in times of war and in times of peace, in periods of depression and in periods of prosperity, in republics and in monarchies, among the civilized and among the savage. Since the time that Noah came out of the ark, and planted vineyards, and drank of their wines, we read in all the histories of its terrible doings, and never once lose sight of its black and bloody tracks.4


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> I don't think "most say" would be correct;  I think "some say" would be more accurate.  There is nothing in the text that indicates that it is not fermented.  I've read some of the arguments for it being wine that is not yet fermented.  On the whole, these arguments seem to argue from a presupposition that alcohol is evil and then arrive at the conclusion that the wine Christ made couldn't have been fermented.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would say most Christians  do say it was unfermented since he just made it .   Anyone adding words to the bible to suit their self speaks for its self. Sorry if you get offended but my statement is not directed at you, its just a statement.
 A drink of wine in itself is not a sin but being drunk is.
Eph 5:18 Be not drunk, wherein is excess; but be filled with the spirit.
1 Cor 5:11--- not to company with a drunkard
Pro 26:9 as a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of a fools.
Pro 23:21 for a drunkard and glutten shall come to poverty
1 Cor 6:10  Nor drunkard shall enter the kingdom of God.
Luke21:34 and drunkenness, and cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day, not in rioting and drunkness.
Gal 5:21--drunkeness shall not enter the kingdom of God.
1 peter4:3  when we walked inlasciviousness, lust, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings,and abominatable idolatries.

7. But the end of all things is at hand; be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Now we must ask ourselves, Do we always stop with just 1 or 2 glasses of wine? One drink uaually leads to another. Are we seen as worthy of Gods salvation, by our sins? We should be new creations.
 Dont take this as Im condeming anyone. I must also ask myself this same question.


----------



## Ronnie T (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> Most say the wine Jesus made was "new wine" and not fermented yet. If Jesus got drunk He would not have been the perfect sacrifice. If Jesus was a stumbling block getting others drunk He would not be a perfect sacrifice.
> I hope this puts this wore out question to rest for the last time. Man is always looking for an excuse to cover his sin.



Doesn't the scripture say that after Jesus made this wine, all the people at the party began commenting:  

"Man, this is the best wine we've had.  They've saved the very best wine for last".

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it was fermented, but it does mean it was the wine most people had been hoping for.


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

Ronnie T said:


> Doesn't the scripture say that after Jesus made this wine, all the people at the party began commenting:
> 
> "Man, this is the best wine we've had.  They've saved the very best wine for last".
> 
> Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it was fermented, but it does mean it was the wine most people had been hoping for.



  For sure it tasted the best.


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> Joseph Seiss, an outstanding Lutheran theologian of the nineteenth century, gives the following commentary on this text.
> 
> The history of strong drink is the history of ruin, of tears, of blood. It is, perhaps, the greatest curse that has ever scourged the earth. It is one of depravity's worst fruits-a giant demon of destruction. Men talk of earthquakes, storms, floods, conflagrations, famine, pestilence, despotism, and war; but intemperance in the use of intoxicating drinks has sent a volume of misery and woe into the stream of this world's history, more fearful and terrific than either of them. It is the Amazon and Mississippi among the rivers of wretchedness. It is the Alexander and Napoleon among the warriors upon the peace and good of man. It is like the pale horse of the Apocalypse whose rider is Death, and at whose heels follow Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- and destruction. It is an evil which is limited to no age, no continent, no nation, no party, no sex, no period of life. It has taken the poor man at his toil and the rich man at his desk, the senator in the halls of state and the drayman on the street, the young man in his festivities and the old man in his repose, the priest at the altar and the layman in the pew, and plunged them together into a common ruin. It has raged equally in times of war and in times of peace, in periods of depression and in periods of prosperity, in republics and in monarchies, among the civilized and among the savage. Since the time that Noah came out of the ark, and planted vineyards, and drank of their wines, we read in all the histories of its terrible doings, and never once lose sight of its black and bloody tracks.4



Yeah, he make's alcohol sound pretty evil.  He makes it sound like alcohol has done a lot of bad things.  However, alcohol has done none of these things.  

Fallen men with sinful hearts have done all these things.  Villianizing the substance is not the answer.  The substance isn't the evil.  The abuse of it is the evil.  The redemption of the hearts of men is the answer.  The sanctification of their minds and desires is the answer.  The Pharisees didn't drink, but they were no less enslaved.

Alcohol can be dangerous, but I would argue that sex is far more dangerous.


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

Should I say cocain is not bad or crystal meth or heroin or LSD or Pot or the street corner prostitute is not bad? Just the weak flesh is bad? We all have our weaknesses and to a nonbeliever its all just fun but to believers and God its sin. 
 I would say, to an alcoholic its the worst. To a smoker the tobbaco is the worst. All of these products will always be connected to sin.


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> I would say most Christians  do say it was unfermented since he just made it .   Anyone adding words to the bible to suit their self speaks for its self.



Well, we must know different people and read different commentaries.  Honestly, I seriously don't think that most of Christian scholarship understands that to be non-alcoholic.




> Sorry if you get offended but my statement is not directed at you, its just a statement.



I wasn't offended.  I just think you should be more careful with your words.  You quoted me, I'm defending a practice that you believe is sinful, and then you say, "Man is always looking for an excuse to cover his sin."  The implication is pretty clear.  Otherwise, your statement is totally random and in no way germane to the subject.  




> A drink of wine in itself is not a sin but being drunk is.



Well, then we totally agree.  



> Eph 5:18 Be not drunk, wherein is excess; but be filled with the spirit.
> 1 Cor 5:11--- not to company with a drunkard
> Pro 26:9 as a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of a fools.
> Pro 23:21 for a drunkard and glutten shall come to poverty
> ...



Drunkenness is always a sin - always, always, always.  Drinking wine, however, is not a sin.  Drinking a beer is not  a sin.  Abuse of the good things God has given us and enslavement to anything other than Christ are always a sin.  Enjoyment with proper respect and moderation is not.



> Now we must ask ourselves, Do we always stop with just 1 or 2 glasses of wine? One drink usually leads to another.



I know people who drink and get drunk.  I know people who drink and have never been drunk.  How many drinks you have is a product of where your heart is before you have the first one.  Drunkenness is just an expression of the sin that was already in the heart.  



> Are we seen as worthy of Gods salvation, by our sins? We should be new creations.
> Dont take this as Im condeming anyone. I must also ask myself this same question.



Certainly our sins do not make us worthy of God's salvation.  Rom. 6:1-4.  We are new creations.  2 Cor. 5:17.  I agree with you, but I'm not sure how this relates to the subject?


----------



## Lead Poison (Oct 30, 2010)

I've read this thread and I agree with Packrat.

My son works at Publix. I can't see God being upset with him because Publix sells wine.

For the record, my son works in the produce department.


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> Hummm. Should I say cocain is not bad or crystal meth or heroin or LSD or Pot or the street corner prostitute is not bad?



So hemp is evil?  When God created the world, he actually didn't create it all good?  Or did hemp start growing after Gen. 3?  There is nothing evil about a marijuana leaf.  The evil comes when sinful men use it for evil.  Is whipped cream in a can bad?  No.  But using it to do whippets is sinful.  What if cocaine was better than lime from spreading on your yard?  Would it be sinful to spread cocaine on my yard?  No.  Using it to alter my mind and escape reality rather than seek joy and peace in Christ would be a sin though.  That street corner prostitute - are there certain parts of her body that are evil?  No, but when she uses them to distort God's gift of sexuality that is sinful.



> Just the weak flesh is bad?



A heart that treasures anything other than the glory of God in knowing Christ is sinful.



> We all have our weaknesses and to a nonbeliever its all just fun but to believers and God its sin.  I would say, to an alcoholic its the worst. To a smoker the tobbaco is the worst. All of these products will always be connected to sin.



Once again, the issue is not a substance issue.  It's a heart issue.  A good tree produces good fruit; a bad tree produces bad fruit.  Eliminating alcohol or tobacco does not change the type of tree.  Alcohol is not the enemy, sinful desires are the enemy.  Tobacco is not the enemy, sinful desires are the enemy.  Sex is not the enemy, sinful desires are the enemy.  Possessions are not the enemy, sinful desires are the enemy.  Etc.


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> As I said above, Its not about what I think.   Eating food is not a sin, but the bible does say to be sober. Each individual has to make his own decision with how he walks with the Lord.



Your body is a temple eating to much is a sin. Drinking and not getting drunk wouldn't that be considered sober?

Like I said I don't drink so I don't have to justify it one way or the other.


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> Most say the wine Jesus made was "new wine" and not fermented yet. If Jesus got drunk He would not have been the perfect sacrifice. If Jesus was a stumbling block getting others drunk He would not be a perfect sacrifice.
> I hope this puts this wore out question to rest for the last time. Man is always looking for an excuse to cover his sin.


unfermented wine would be grape juice. One can drink a glass of wine and not become drunk on it. Some doctors reccomend it for your heart..


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 30, 2010)

why drink? I did it to feel different, and so does everyone else, you cant say you drink for nothing. you drink for a different feeling, I wanted to feel better.


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> why drink? I did it to feel different, and so does everyone else, you cant say you drink for nothing. you drink for a different feeling, I wanted to feel better.



Is it possible for someone to just enjoy the taste of a certain wine or beer?


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> why drink? I did it to feel different, and so does everyone else, you cant say you drink for nothing. you drink for a different feeling, I wanted to feel better.



 Amen to that.  And you know the Devil is not sin you have to hang out and do what he does to be sin. And sin is not sin you have to do the sin to be sinful.
 I think Im catching on now.   And if I breath too much air Ill get high, but not enough Im gonna die.


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 30, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> Is it possible for someone to just enjoy the taste of a certain wine or beer?



ummmm......no


----------



## hayseed_theology (Oct 30, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> ummmm......no



Then why do folks make such a big deal about the way wine tastes?  Why are folks happy to get just a sip of certain high dollar wines?

Why do they bother to make expensive designer beers?


----------



## Havana Dude (Oct 30, 2010)

hayseed_theology said:


> Is it possible for someone to just enjoy the taste of a certain wine or beer?



uummmmmmm.............yes


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> Amen to that.  And you know the Devil is not sin you have to hang out and do what he does to be sin. And sin is not sin you have to do the sin to be sinful.
> I think Im catching on now.   And if I breath too much air Ill get high, but not enough Im gonna die.



Sin is sin! Speeding is a sin so I guess it would be just as bad as drinking wine in your book. Do you ever drive over the limit?


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

270 guy said:


> Sin is sin! Speeding is a sin so I guess it would be just as bad as drinking wine in your book. Do you ever drive over the limit?



I dont have a book, Do you?
  Using too much toilet paper in my house is sin but it wont stop you from making it to heaven.  Sometimes I over use my allotment of air but I hold my breath for 10 min to make up for it. If I walk to far, I just walk backwards a ways. If I laugh too much ,I slap myself around till I cry.  If my hair grows too much I cut it, same with my fingernails. Do I ever drive over the speed limit? 
 Do you work for the county? I dont want to incriminate myself. Got to go, catch ya later.


----------



## polkhunt (Oct 30, 2010)

it don't think this horse can even get to his knees let alone stand


----------



## FritzMichaels (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> I dont have a book, Do you?
> Using too much toilet paper in my house is sin but it wont stop you from making it to heaven.  Sometimes I over use my allotment of air but I hold my breath for 10 min to make up for it. If I walk to far, I just walk backwards a ways. If I laugh too much ,I slap myself around till I cry.  If my hair grows too much I cut it, same with my fingernails. Do I ever drive over the speed limit?
> Do you work for the county? I dont want to incriminate myself. Got to go, catch ya later.





i drove over the speed limit yesterday but the day before i drove under the speed limit... so they owed me some speeding.


----------



## gtparts (Oct 30, 2010)

Matthew 15:11

11 It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.”






He warns against things which really defile.

Christ shows that the defilement they ought to fear, was not from what entered their mouths as food, but from what came out of their mouths, which showed the wickedness of their hearts. Nothing will last in the soul but the regenerating graces of the Holy Spirit; and nothing should be admitted into the church but what is from above; therefore, whoever is offended by a plain, seasonable declaration of the truth, we should not be troubled at it. The disciples ask to be better taught as to this matter. Where a weak head doubts concerning any word of Christ, an upright heart and a willing mind seek for instruction. It is the heart that is desperately wicked, Jer 17:9, for there is no sin in word or deed, which was not first in the heart. They all come out of the man, and are fruits of that wickedness which is in the heart, and is wrought there. When Christ teaches, he will show men the deceitfulness and wickedness of their own hearts; he will teach them to humble themselves, and to seek to be cleansed in the Fountain opened for sin and uncleanness. (Mt 15:21-28)

Hayseed (and perhaps one or two others) is addressing the very source of our sin problem. The rest seem to be stuck on the symptoms. There are always those who have barely grasped the art of consuming "milk", who aren't ready for "meat". 

God grant us all spiritual understanding and the spiritual wisdom to properly apply that understanding to our daily lives.

Here it is again, in context.

Matthew 15
(Jesus Teaches about Inner Purity)
 1 Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. They asked him, 2 “Why do your disciples disobey our age-old tradition? For they ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat.”

 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ 6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

 8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
      but their hearts are far from me.
    9 Their worship is a farce,
      for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’”

 10 Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. “Listen,” he said, “and try to understand. 11 It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.”

 12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?”

 13 Jesus replied, “Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be uprooted, 14 so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch.”

 15 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Explain to us the parable that says people aren’t defiled by what they eat.”

 16 “Don’t you understand yet?” Jesus asked. 17 “Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. 18 But the words you speak come from the heart—that’s what defiles you. 19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. 20 These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.”


----------



## 270 guy (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> I dont have a book, Do you?
> Using too much toilet paper in my house is sin but it wont stop you from making it to heaven.  Sometimes I over use my allotment of air but I hold my breath for 10 min to make up for it. If I walk to far, I just walk backwards a ways. If I laugh too much ,I slap myself around till I cry.  If my hair grows too much I cut it, same with my fingernails. Do I ever drive over the speed limit?
> Do you work for the county? I dont want to incriminate myself. Got to go, catch ya later.



 Speeding is breaking a law of the land..... last I checked none of the others were against the law. 

If doing all of the things you mentioned turns you on then have at it. 

I do have a book it is called the Bible!

Nope don't work for the county or state.

One can take many verses from the Bible and use them out of context to make them look like they appear to be what they are not and mean something totaly different. 

Beat the horse one more time he kicked a little.


Proverbs 23:20-21 ESV Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags. 

Philippians 3:19 ESV Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 


Deuteronomy 21:20 ESV  
And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 


1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ESV Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.


----------



## apoint (Oct 30, 2010)

FritzMichaels said:


> i drove over the speed limit yesterday but the day before i drove under the speed limit... so they owed me some speeding.



I always stop twice at a stop sign just in case I need to run it sometime.


----------



## FritzMichaels (Oct 30, 2010)

apoint said:


> I always stop twice at a stop sign just in case I need to run it sometime.



   funny


----------



## vanguard1 (Oct 31, 2010)

I don,t speed. why? because it is a sin to disobey the law of the land, and God cannot protect you win you speed, if you do speed and have christian bumper stickers on your car, please take them off. its the little foxes that spoil the vine.

 17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

that is the very thing that started my fall, was not obeying God in the little things and thinking I could get away with the "SMALL SINS"


----------



## Disciple1st (Nov 2, 2010)

How sad it is when many take addiction as a joke. I hope you never have to eat your words and face the torment of addiction.


----------



## Dominic (Nov 2, 2010)

apoint said:


> Eating food is not a sin,



The Bible says not to be a glutton, it does not say eating is sin.




apoint said:


> but the bible does say to be sober.



The Bible says not to be a drunkard, it does not say drinking is a sin.


----------



## Dominic (Nov 2, 2010)

I would like to know how many of you there that are condiming drinking are overweight.

Don't be shy


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 2, 2010)

how many that drink are?


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 2, 2010)

disciple1st said:


> how sad it is when many take addiction as a joke. I hope you never have to eat your words and face the torment of addiction.



amen brother.


----------



## 270 guy (Nov 2, 2010)

Dominic said:


> I would like to know how many of you there that are condiming drinking are overweight.
> 
> Don't be shy



Over weight here and have been since birth what's your point? 

I haven't condemned anyone though.


----------



## Havana Dude (Nov 2, 2010)

Man, this thing won't die no matter how hard ya beat it!! 

Slightlyoverweight here, and ugly too!! Can't help the latter!!


----------



## ronpasley (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok here is a picture of me and my family are you happen.
As you can see I have a little weight on me.


----------



## Dominic (Nov 2, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> how many that drink are?



I will answer yours 

No I am not overweight and yes I drink alcohol, but I am not a drunkard.

Now answer mine

The questions are simple 

Do you condemn the drinking of alcohol a sin?

Are you overweight?


----------



## apoint (Nov 2, 2010)

Dominic said:


> The Bible says not to be a glutton, it does not say eating is sin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 You are as usual throughly confused. I never said eating is a sin. or a drink was a sin.


----------



## 270 guy (Nov 2, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> Is it wrong to work in the kitchen of a place which sells alcohol even if I have nothing to do with the drinks directly? ...
> 
> "In my judgment, you are helping in a bad business.  I would not be willing even to eat in a place where drinks are served, much less to work there.  I believe if it is right for you to work there, it is right for people to eat there.  If it is all right to eat there, then it is all right for people to run the place as it is run and to sell drinks.  But that is obviously wrong.  They ought not to sell drinks, and you ought not to make a living out of as place that sells drinks, and I ought not to eat there and give my O.K. and my endorsement to the place which is selling drinks."
> 
> SOURCE: Dr. Rice, Here is My Question..., by Dr. John R. Rice, pg. 93, ISBN: 0-87398-158-8, Sword of the Lord Publishers



Nothing at all wrong with working somewhere that is a legitimate place of business that sells or has alchahol products. If you abuse those products then it would be a different story. I know many Christian folks and friends that work at the beer plant. Everyone has to work somehwhere. Or I guess you could collect welfare and stay home like so many others do now.


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 4, 2010)

Dominic said:


> I will answer yours
> 
> No I am not overweight and yes I drink alcohol, but I am not a drunkard.
> 
> ...



I dont know Im 6,2 300 lbs size 14 shoe you tell me?


----------



## Gabassmaster (Nov 4, 2010)

ronpasley said:


> Ok here is a picture of me and my family are you happen.
> As you can see I have a little weight on me.



wow YOUR wife looks good!!! your one lucky guy ron!


----------



## vanguard1 (Nov 4, 2010)

i was goin to say what a babe.


----------



## Dominic (Nov 4, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> I dont know Im 6,2 300 lbs size 14 shoe you tell me?



That would put you almost 100 lbs overweight

Does that mean you are a glutton?


----------



## decoyed (Nov 4, 2010)

vanguard1 said:


> I dont know Im 6,2 300 lbs size 14 shoe you tell me?



oh yes...


----------



## Gabassmaster (Nov 4, 2010)

What does the size of his she matter?? that be like me sayin i wear a size 7 and a half in hats???


----------



## ronpasley (Nov 5, 2010)

Gabassmaster said:


> wow YOUR wife looks good!!! your one lucky guy ron!



Thanks brother you should see her in person she is a knock out.


----------



## ronpasley (Nov 5, 2010)

Dominic said:


> I don't know I just asked about his weight not his shoe size.
> 
> Maybe he's just proud of how big his feet are.
> 
> ...



Thank you Lord for you goodness and blessing We praise you Holy name.


----------

