# Unable to pre-register for GBAA state indoor via GBAA site?



## ScarletArrows (Feb 15, 2013)

Anyone want to explain why I have to go ALC site to pre-register. I thought that's why we have a GBAA site?


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## oldgeez (Feb 15, 2013)

ricky, red1691, says the home club sets the pre-registration rules...that being the alc  2 or 3 of us have tried to register on the gbaa web site, only to get e mails that we have to go to griv's web site...so............???


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 16, 2013)

oldgeez said:


> ricky, red1691, says the home club sets the pre-registration rules...that being the alc  2 or 3 of us have tried to register on the gbaa web site, only to get e mails that we have to go to griv's web site...so............???



Then you either have to mail in your pre-registration with check or sign up for ALC site and pay an additional 2 dollar "convience" fee for the use of GRIV's website.  

Just wondering why no one at the GBAA says ..

" 1st. Its PRE-registration, we'll forward you the information as we get it. The GBAA website is paid for via dues to our organization. Forcing our members to another site creates an issue where in we may get questioned as to why we are not using the means by which the state organization created to pre-register for tournaments. It brings into question the validity of our members paying out dues to maintain a website only in turn to have to redirect our members to another, where they must in turn PAY an additional 2 dollars for the 'convience' of using it. "

but who am I but a guy whom payed out his dues to maintain that GBAA website...

"2nd. Why are we requiring pre payment with registration. This is unprecedented."


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## Toyrunner (Feb 16, 2013)

SA Qoute:  
"2nd. Why are we requiring pre payment with registration. This is unprecedented." 

Everybody's gotta get paid, don't ya know!!!!!!


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## red1691 (Feb 16, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> "2nd. Why are we requiring pre payment with registration. This is unprecedented."



Don't make me have to give you a history lesson on the economics of the cost of Hosting a shoot!!!!!!


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## oldgeez (Feb 16, 2013)

tony, you're stirring the pot, as usual , but you have a valid point, also as usual!!  sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and let the big dogs eat.  the $2 really roils me, too; mainly because i don't hardly have $2 with the recession.  paying in advance is another good beef, but again, we the sheeple, have little control.  i gave up the ghost and pre registered last night.  like ricky said, thank goodness for people like the griv and the pruitts for putting on these tournaments.  this is going to be a good year for us, here in atlanta, for shooting gbaa tournies.  if kennisaw would have taken the field, it would have been perfectamondo, lol!!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 17, 2013)

red1691 said:


> Don't make me have to give you a history lesson on the economics of the cost of Hosting a shoot!!!!!!



 Seriously? I mean it...You have to be joking with me on this one.


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## watermedic (Feb 17, 2013)

You can register for the state but not the southeastern. 

Not under our control on that one.


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## Toyrunner (Feb 18, 2013)

Please elaborate Chuck... when I was on the GBAA website it seemed exactly like I could and did pre-register for the GBAA State Indoor Shoot (not the SE Sectional Indoor Shoot), but Tim sent an email which made me think I in fact did not complete the GBAA pre-registration for the GBAA State Indoor Shoot (not the SE Sectional Indoor Shoot) but was required to go to GRIVs site...now I'm confused, but that doesn't take much these days.


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## watermedic (Feb 18, 2013)

OK here is what I found out.

George requested that all registrations go through him. That is why Tim has been bouncing them back to everyone.

You can mail in the registration as long as it is postmarked by the 22nd. Today was the first that I had heard about the $2 fee and requiring prepayment. We have never done this before. Maybe you can express your opinions to George at the shoot. I am sure that he can handle a little constructive criticism.


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## oldgeez (Feb 18, 2013)

a few of us, tony most of all, have already voiced our opinions.  griv is on here all the time, so i'm sure he knows.  i guess he's just doing what he's gotta do.  it sure is causing a great deal of time, trouble and confusion, but i guess it will all work out in the end


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## Toyrunner (Feb 18, 2013)

Quote from watermedic:
"George requested that all registrations go through him" And why do you think this is???? I'm sure it has everything to do with making the process operate smoother.


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## watermedic (Feb 18, 2013)

Change of plans!

Tom and Tim talked after I posted my response and decided to allow registration on the GBAA web site. Mainly due to the fact that some shooters may not have a credit card to use on the ALC website.

Sorry for the confusion.

Chuck


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## Toyrunner (Feb 18, 2013)

Quote from watermedic:
"I'm not cleaning that up!!" 
It does appear like you do some cleaning up after all!!!!


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## Toyrunner (Feb 18, 2013)

Is the GBAA going to have ALC return the $27 I had to spend to get to this point (my original goal was to pre-register for the 2013 GBAA State Indoor Shoot online through the GBAA website) and re-instate my original GBAA online pre-resistration?


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## watermedic (Feb 18, 2013)

I dont know if he can cancel the payment or not.

I will buy you a beer or a shot of Jager if that helps!


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## Toyrunner (Feb 18, 2013)

Anything's possible...thinkabout it...yjust this morning somebody who just couldn't afford paying for pre-registration and a convenience fee now can pre-register for this event for free...isn't America great?


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## Daniel W. (Feb 18, 2013)

oldgeez said:


> tony, you're stirring the pot, as usual , but you have a valid point, also as usual!!  sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and let the big dogs eat.  the $2 really roils me, too; mainly because i don't hardly have $2 with the recession.  paying in advance is another good beef, but again, we the sheeple, have little control.  i gave up the ghost and pre registered last night.  like ricky said, thank goodness for people like the griv and the pruitts for putting on these tournaments.  this is going to be a good year for us, here in atlanta, for shooting gbaa tournies.  if kennisaw would have taken the field, it would have been perfectamondo, lol!!



I too am very grateful for the Pruittes, GRIV, and any and all other clubs who work to put on local shoots!  In all of my years of shooting I have never once volunteered for a shoot nor have I ever held office in any organization.....  I just want to show up and shoot!  So thanks again for everyone that allows us to do that!


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## red1691 (Feb 18, 2013)

As Watermedic said, you can register on the GBAA web site but only for the GBAA State Indoor shoot! If you want to register for the NFAA Southeasteren Indoor, YOU WILL have to use Archery Learning Centers web site.


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## oldgeez (Feb 18, 2013)

goodbye $2..i should have waited, but i never figured the gbaa would reverse their decision.  it was a good decision, just a little late for me, lol!!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 18, 2013)

Impressed, to say the least...


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## GRIV (Feb 19, 2013)

I just found this thread. 

I've ran a half dozen other shoots using this online registration service. The two bucks is charged to me for the use of the service. That's the cost. Buy tickets online, book airfare, whatever, its there. It costs money to process cards. 

 I haven had this kind of backlash yet over $2. Most people are glad to use their card and not have to print the form, write a check, stamp it and mail it. 

*You can just fill out the form and mail it if you want to avoid the $2 or If you are signing up multiple entrants.*

I requested that all the registrations go through me so I know who is registered and can be organized and ready for you when you arrive. If we have three piles of registrants (online gbaa, online alc, and paper forms sent to two different places) I can't have target assignments or any organization set up for you. 

The $2 charged to you just covers the fee the JOAD club has to pay so you can have easy online registration. As you know we don't host this shoot because its a huge money maker for the JOAD. I do it to further our JOAD club and continue to promote target archery in the state. 

I see there three guys talking in this thread. Is this really a big deal? I registered 80 people for my Halloween shoot and about the same for the 25 meter and not a peep about $2. I didn't think this would be a problem. 

Last time everyone wanted to call me and pay over the phone with a credit card including old geeez. The credit card companies charge me 2.5 to 5% for every charge. I was just making it easier for y'all. 

If $2 is a problem, mail a paper form. I won't hassle you about late registration if I get it a couple days before you show up. If you mail it now it will be to me in plenty of time. 

I just need to know who's coming so I can be organized and ready. 

This weekend is the USA National Indoor at ALC. we have registered over a hundred kids and adults to shoot. USA Archery required a paper form and a check or money order. All I get out of that group is "what? Are we in the stone ages!?!? Why can't we register online? Nobody wants to fill out a paper form!!!"


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## MI360 (Feb 19, 2013)

GRIV said:


> I just found this thread.
> 
> I've ran a half dozen other shoots using this online registration service. The two bucks is charged to me for the use of the service. That's the cost. Buy tickets online, book airfare, whatever, its there. It costs money to process cards.
> 
> ...



AMEN GRIV!!! I know times are hard but you guys are fussing and whinning about $2. I myself will be glad to pay the $2. ALC is a great place to shoot and always very well run. Some of you guys should teach a class on whinning and fussing, you guys are PRO'S at it.


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## watermedic (Feb 19, 2013)

Its all about change guys.

This has never been done with GBAA shoots before and that is where the fallout is coming from.

I am sure that there will be more coming about other "changes" that have been made.

Chuck


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## Toyrunner (Feb 19, 2013)

And you guy's really think I'm serious about this online forum stuff??? Haha...now that's funny!


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## red1691 (Feb 19, 2013)

I know it's hard to belive but there are some GBAA members that do not use or even have a computer !


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## watermedic (Feb 19, 2013)

City folks have no clue about that Ricky.


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## Toyrunner (Feb 19, 2013)

Chuck - When will GBAA rules be brought in line with the new NFAA rules?


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## watermedic (Feb 19, 2013)

June, same time that they take effect with the NFAA.

The new sky drawing rule should get some attention!!


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## Toyrunner (Feb 19, 2013)

As it should...more interested in senior division changes


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## oldgeez (Feb 19, 2013)

sorry we ruffled your feathers, griv!!  we all know what a great guy you are and appreciate all the good things you do for archery and the kids and all.   it was all about the sudden "changes" in the pre-registration system (mandatory payment up front to register).  gbaa and gaa..i always just scan copy the form, fill it out and scan and e mail it back.  this way, it gives me more time to dig up the money....as mi said, the $2 was just something to whine and fuss about, lol!!  again sorry...and keep up the good work it's really nice to use a credit card because that gives me even more time to dig up the $$$. hit 'em in the middle


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 19, 2013)

GRIV,
 Conveniently...The GBAA has a website it maintains for our pre-registation for all state tournaments. Conveniently, its free to even nonmembers of the GBAA to pre register on. 

You want to maintain a website for your club, go for it, in fact it makes things more convenient for your members. But when the members of the GBAA pay dues, and those dues help pay for that convenient site where we can pre-register.  To be conveniently charged while we where forced to your site for online pre-registration... comes across as paying taxes twice...

And btw there are thousands of ways to set up pre-registration across the internet that wouldn't require you to have to charge your shooters 2 dollars for convience fees. Including ways to use Google +, Facebook, and others...



Conveniently. adj. (kun-veen-yunt-lee)
Suited or favorable to one's comfort, purpose, or needs: a convenient time to receive guests; a convenient excuse for not going.
2.a. Easy to reach b. Close at hand

Convenience Fee n.
An additional charge for a service for which there is already a basic fee. Also called service fee.

Highway Robbery n.
1. Robbery usually of travelers on or near a public road.
2. Informal: The exaction of an exorbitantly high price or fee.

And just for clarification so my meaning is not misconstrued... an 8 % (gotten pretty good at using a calculator) "convience fee" is highway robbery...( and if you're getting charged 2.5 to 5% for credit card transactions you need to find another merchant service. There are a lot cheaper out there.). 

I would highly recommend you getting one of those HTML programs that allows you to send emails from a website using your own pre created forms kinda like what you have happen when you get a new user to your ALC website or what the GBAA currently uses...wait a second...you already have that kind of software capability, and technical know how at your disposal...ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT! 

Why go through another site You have to make your shooters pay for, if you have it available via the GBAA for free? Just seems odd to use 'organization' as an excuse when the GBAA officers can forward you the information as they get it...shouldn't be hard to check a fax machine or email box and jot down a name or two under a target assignment...check them in at the door, give yourself plunty of fudge space. It is why there are pre-registration deadlines after all... but...HEY WAIT A MINUTE, you're the all mighty GRIV running a shoot should be a cake walk for you...it ain't your first rodeo man....So wait now why charge for what can be free?  cause you don't have to have the pre payment do ya...I mean seriously you can take cash/ checks at the door...so lets see....Its starting to add up...told ya... I have got pretty good with a calculator. 

And just for curiosity...What's the name of the company you are using for the online registration service? 8% whew man...whew. 

Keep in mind folks we're not talking about 2 bucks, we're talking about a potental hundred + in service fees. I for one will not have my intelligence insulted by being told that 'organization' is the reason for it. Its not like the club is not keeping some of the registration fee as it is...targets, venue, and time spent organizing is supposed to come out of that.

Any arguement about how that fee is for running the card for pre-registration, is null and void...cause you don't have to make people run their cards. Simple as that. You could have just gotten a head count...like has been done for years now with the pre-registration. NOW if on site and people want to use their cards by all means, charge them service fees...you are providing the service. But you can not stand there and say..."you can't use your website you've already paid for, you have to use my website and pay more for because I say so." And not expect someone out there with half a mind to go, "Hey, wait a minute here! This ain't right." 

I got no problem with a guy making a dollar or two...I just don't like him taking it out of my wallet under false pretenses.
op2:

Glad the officers of the GBAA are looking out for their members wallets.  And just so everyone knows...I will not be in attendence this year for the Indoor. (beyond the fact that I dislike indoor) I am Going to Tampa to shoot the R100...my arguement has been made here solely so that my voice is heard concerning the issue, because I won't be there in person to make that arguement.  If I was going to attend...I would have voiced my opinions there.  I for one would recommend that there be by laws instituted that say pre-registration does not require pre-payment so this is no longer an issue for the GBAA.


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## MI360 (Feb 20, 2013)

I would first like to thank GRIV and everyone at ALC. ALC is one of the nicest and well run places in the southeast. I am greatful that ALC will host the GBAA state indoor. Thanks GRIV for all that you do for the sport of archery.


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## Monster02 (Feb 21, 2013)

I rather give the extra money to the Gbaa.. Just saying!


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## oldgeez (Feb 22, 2013)

@ tell...you need to change your avatar..you hoyt turncoat, lol


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## 900 Shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

I know of several shoots that require pre-registration and payment well ahead of time and if you don't get the money ontime, then you don't shoot, the senior games held in Cleveland is $150.00 and you guys are whinning about $2, if someone from another state read this thread they would wonder what rock we crawled out from under, last year at the GBAA shoot, because of the late and three piles of registrations, we got started late which caused a mess for everyone involved, personnally I am tired of getting to a tournament which is supposed to start at 1:00 and doesn't start until 1:30 or 2 and there are only 50 shooters? That would not work at one of the ASA, Vegas or Indoor Nationals!
I think eveyone needs to grow up,
GRIV, you are doing a great job


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 23, 2013)

900 Shooter said:


> I know of several shoots that require pre-registration and payment well ahead of time and if you don't get the money ontime, then you don't shoot, the senior games held in Cleveland is $150.00 and you guys are whinning about $2, if someone from another state read this thread they would wonder what rock we crawled out from under, last year at the GBAA shoot, because of the late and three piles of registrations, we got started late which caused a mess for everyone involved, personnally I am tired of getting to a tournament which is supposed to start at 1:00 and doesn't start until 1:30 or 2 and there are only 50 shooters? That would not work at one of the ASA, Vegas or Indoor Nationals!
> I think eveyone needs to grow up,
> GRIV, you are doing a great job



 

For the final time... its about the fact that pre-registration with the GBAA has been done for the last few years via a website that is maintained out of our dues for the GBAA... being forced off of a site we already pay for to pre-register is mind numbing. Then throw on top of that a unprecidented pre-pay requirement at this level with service fees and you have a minor issue.

One with simple solutions. 

But feigning ignorance of the ability to organize a shoot or better put the trials and tribulations of having to spend a bit of time actually getting organized...is not an excuse to take an additional 2 bucks from your shooters. When will it end if everyone just rolls over and pays it...Next year its 3, year after that its 5. Before you know it, everyone is using it as an excuse...for what? To make more money, that's for what.

Sometimes you need to cut a problem off at the knees. Cut out its heart and place the head on a pike for all to see...So that if anyone tries pulling some nonsense again...OR Sometimes you have to take that problem in, feed it, and heal its wounds and send it back out into the world to spread the gospel...

Either way, someone has to raise the question. What kind of problem is this? And how should we deal with it?

I got no problem being called whiny...or a ...you can insult me, call me names, ignore me, and ignore my questions. But you can not ignore the consequences of me asking those questions.


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## oldgeez (Feb 23, 2013)

you da man, tony!!  "head on a pike"...i like that, lol!!  it's the principle of the thing.


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## GRIV (Feb 26, 2013)

oldgeez said:


> you da man, tony!!  "head on a pike"...i like that, lol!!  it's the principle of the thing.



you should be ashamed. 

yeah it's the principle of the thing...

but which principle?

Supporting kids program and helping them save the $2 so you can use your card and easily pre-register? A kids program that adds 30 or more registrants to tournaments all over the country? A program that trains over 100 kids every week and introduces them to competitive archery and encourages them to compete as they are ready isn't worth $2? 

You should be looking for any opportunity to support a JOAD program somewhere near you, or all of them. They are what is going to make archery grow. 

I just hosted the USA Archery Nationals we had over 200 registrations and a quarter of them came from people that my club introduced to archery. 

all this drama over $2 is astounding. Those of you who are just grinding an axe for sport can get a grip and fill out the paper form. However you have two days to get it in or you'll get whatever shooting times are left. All the pre-registrants will will be organized by class and age division on the line. All the late registrants will shoot where we can fit you in. 

If you're coming, do us a favor and pre register so we can have the same great organization we had last weekend.


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## GRIV (Feb 26, 2013)

Tim from the GBAA sent the paper form to all members via email. Here's a copy.


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## MI360 (Feb 26, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> For the final time... its about the fact that pre-registration with the GBAA has been done for the last few years via a website that is maintained out of our dues for the GBAA... being forced off of a site we already pay for to pre-register is mind numbing. Then throw on top of that a unprecidented pre-pay requirement at this level with service fees and you have a minor issue.
> 
> One with simple solutions.
> 
> ...



If something like this is mind numbing, how in the world do you get threw everyday life without being committed to a metal hospital? It also sounds like it would be a great idea for you to open up a place and hold the state indoor and southeastern indoor. Yes sir i think you are whinning. Its $2. it cost money to run a card. You don't have to pay the $2 you can mail a check in and a form.


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## Monster02 (Feb 26, 2013)

Must be a City thing!! Bahahahaha!!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 26, 2013)

MI360 said:


> If something like this is mind numbing, how in the world do you get threw everyday life without being committed to a metal hospital? It also sounds like it would be a great idea for you to open up a place and hold the state indoor and southeastern indoor. Yes sir i think you are whinning. Its $2. it cost money to run a card. You don't have to pay the $2 you can mail a check in and a form.



Ok...in all honesty...you got me on that one MI360 the ability for me to make it through a day without the necessity of commitment to a mental hospital is pretty impressive. Lord knows the things I deal with and the fights I take up.  I would love to host a state indoor, and south eastern sectional. Lord knows I could get the help and a decent turnout...location would be tough but give me some time I think I can work that out. Always up to a challenge.

Now back to the  Cause some people seem too be so dense that they can't grasp the arguement here so I am gonna spell out again what the issue is...then I am going to respond to those replies to the issue...and finally I am going to restate what the real problem is...(some of this you may have read before... but when you get it right the first time and no one seems to provide a good counter to your counter...you might have a valid arguement)

This about the fact that pre-registration with the GBAA has been done for the last few years via a website that is maintained out of our dues for the GBAA... being forced off of a site we already pay for to pre-register is mind numbing (and for MI360's clarification...this is mind numbing in the fact that the logic as you work it out does not seem to make any sense...has nothing to do with the inability to cope with everyday silliness or comprehend what is going on here) .

 Then throw on top of that a unprecidented pre-pay requirement at this level with service fees and you have a minor issue. AND YES, I understand I could pre-register via the mail in. BUT THE PROBLEM IS NOT that I could avoid the fee that way. Its in the manner via which we were forced into pre-registration and pre-payment on another site instead of the normal use of a site we, in all reality, already pay for...

So lets examine the arguement from the guy whom wants my two bucks...
First stated is that 2 dollars was to pay for the site that the pre-registration payment was going through. Repaying the JOAD organization for the funds that they took out of their organization to pay for it.

Could you not have saved them a whole lot of money and made us pre-register on the GBAA site. A location provided by the GBAA membership dues to pre-register. 

Interesting.

Second, you claim it is so you can be better organized because you don't want registrants from 3-4 different locations.
Which can easily be slimmed down to two, mail it to you and GBAA site. 

Interesting.

GRIV by all means I think you may be doing great things in your area for archery and for the state. I want to support them. But I will always be that guy whom stands in the back of the auditorium questioning whether this guy up front has our best intentions or his wallet at heart. 

Its a way for guys in your postion to prove to other less vocal indiviuals that your motives are driven to benefit the state organization, of which you are holding this tournament for. 

The intention of this thread and of my original post was to get an answer as to why the GBAA was not letting its members register via their site. One they fixed.

Any further nonsense created here was solely in response to the fractured logic and strong arm antics of individuals whom seem to truely think that 2 dollars is what I am actually concerned about.

The ability to organize a shoot or better put the trials and tribulations of having to spend a bit of time actually getting organized...is not an excuse to take an additional 2 bucks from your shooters. When will it end if everyone just rolls over and pays it...Next year its 3, year after that its 5. Before you know it, everyone is using it as an excuse...for what? To make more money, that's for what.

And that is what I am concerned about. That is what this thread became about. GRIV, MI360, GEEZE or anyone or could have asked for 2 dollars more for card payment service fee and I wouldn't have cared who it was...the question need be raised.

If anyone here should be ashamed of themselves or commited to asylum its not those whom question why things are done so far out of the norm all of the sudden.  You want to stand atop your personal moutain and say I am whining and have no validity to any of my arguments go ahead.

Because from what I have read you're not providing anything as counter to my questioning of your responses besides a school yard "quit your complaining and pay up" bully esq. mentallity. Which is a great arguement by the way...it just helps to prove that things probably arn't as stated. My suggestion, come up a consciese arguement that doesn't sound like you want my lunch money. It belittles your intelligence and mine.


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## watermedic (Feb 26, 2013)

Dang Tony!!

Must be that dang cat again!!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 26, 2013)

I do hate that cat.


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## MI360 (Feb 26, 2013)

scarletarrows said:


> ok...in all honesty...you got me on that one mi360 the ability for me to make it through a day without the necessity of commitment to a mental hospital is pretty impressive. Lord knows the things i deal with and the fights i take up.  I would love to host a state indoor, and south eastern sectional. Lord knows i could get the help and a decent turnout...location would be tough but give me some time i think i can work that out. Always up to a challenge.
> 
> Now back to the  Cause some people seem too be so dense that they can't grasp the arguement here so i am gonna spell out again what the issue is...then i am going to respond to those replies to the issue...and finally i am going to restate what the real problem is...(some of this you may have read before... But when you get it right the first time and no one seems to provide a good counter to your counter...you might have a valid arguement)
> 
> ...



please tell me what time your whining class starts? You maybe the best in the whole sport of archery.


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## watermedic (Feb 27, 2013)

Great thing about this country we live in!!

Freedom of speech!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 27, 2013)

MI360 said:


> please tell me what time your whining class starts? You maybe the best in the whole sport of archery.



I should reply with indignation and insults. It seems that is the best your intelligence level can muster...but I will thank you for continuing to prove my point. When you decide to grow a brain...I'll be waiting.


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## In the zone (Feb 27, 2013)

Boy somebody needs a hug!!!  

I make a motion that old Geez give it to you this weekend.

Come on Geez... take one for the team.


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## MI360 (Feb 27, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> I should reply with indignation and insults. It seems that is the best your intelligence level can muster...but I will thank you for continuing to prove my point. When you decide to grow a brain...I'll be waiting.



I am not going to trade insults with you, but if you would spend half the time shooting your bow that you spend on here fussing and whining you would be alot better off. But by all of your post on this thread and many others i can see there is no way to please you. While you are waiting on me to grow a brain i will be waiting on you to figure out how to shoot your bow. Good luck this weekend if you could scrape up that extra $2


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## watermedic (Feb 27, 2013)

Uh-oh Tony

I think you have been called out!

Mitchell, you need to get your Olympic recurve out and practice!!


You have three days to be ready!


HaHa!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 27, 2013)

watermedic said:


> Uh-oh Tony
> 
> I think you have been called out!
> 
> ...



Can I enter twice?..well?

He's been a great contribution to the discussion...sharing all that knowledge he's got and experience. And those opinions...such insight into the inner workings of his genius and understanding on the subject. I am glad he graced us here with that. 

I just wish he would have provided us with some sort of counter to my arguements...I am not one who believes that my opinions are the only valid ones...but I think that solutions come from debate. Guess I expected too much from a guy whom can only muster school yard insults, and bully esq challenges to learn to shoot my bow. Probably a good sign he won't have anything to contribute.


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## red1691 (Feb 28, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Can I enter twice?..well?



Yes you can enter twice! But it cost twice the $$$$ TOO!!!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

In the same class?


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## 900 Shooter (Feb 28, 2013)

One solution is that we could go back to the way it was and shoot at Ft Gordon where about 40 shooters total participated and because of the registration process was finalized the day of the shoot, the shoot was always late starting


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

900 Shooter said:


> One solution is that we could go back to the way it was and shoot at Ft Gordon where about 40 shooters total participated and because of the registration process was finalized the day of the shoot, the shoot was always late starting



No No: Last year at Ft. Gordon they had approx 90 shooters. Would have had a whole lot more if the ALC JOAD team and GRIV had shown up.
Would have been the best turn out the GBAA has had in the last few years if that had been the case...heard something about a mass email telling people not to come...but rumors abound.

As per getting started on time...well I'll give you that one, seems no where in the state starts dead on the money on time...is it a major problem?...I guess so , but I don't have a hot date to make it too following the shoot so I don't worry about it much. If the club needs to make sure they are organized and it takes an extra half hour +...fine with me. So long as we get to fling a few arrows eventually. Gives ya some time to interact with your fellow shooters and enjoy the fact that tournaments are about more than just showing up and shooting and going home with or without a trophy...Lot of this has to do with the chance to interact with the rest of the archery community across the state, and support competitive archery in other areas.  And hang out with friends you don't get too see otherwise.

Cause lord knows you can stay in your own back yard and shoot and have just as much fun can't ya?


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## Toyrunner (Feb 28, 2013)

900 Shooter said:


> One solution is that we could go back to the way it was and shoot at Ft Gordon where about 40 shooters total participated and because of the registration process was finalized the day of the shoot, the shoot was always late starting



So, speaking of turnout and your insistence, on this and other GON threads, that when GBAA State shoots are held in the greater Atlanta area participant turnout numbers vastly improve please quote the participation numbers for the 2009 and 2010 State Field Shoots held at LCA and Kennesaw (greater Atlanta area for those geographically challenged) respectively and how those numbers compare to GBAA State Field shoots held in other locations across the state in the last five (5) years or so for all to see?  In other words back up your repeated statement with facts.  

My point, in advance, is that greater Atlanta area shooters support shoots at ALC but as a whole do NOT support GBAA State shoots anyway so stop using that argument as you are trying to create something that doesn't need to exist between greater Atlanta area shooters and us "others", is not accurate and is something we as an archery community don't need to do.

I would think somebody with your vast experience in this sport would not even entertain these thoughts much less voice them in public.


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## MI360 (Feb 28, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Can I enter twice?..well?
> 
> He's been a great contribution to the discussion...sharing all that knowledge he's got and experience. And those opinions...such insight into the inner workings of his genius and understanding on the subject. I am glad he graced us here with that.
> 
> I just wish he would have provided us with some sort of counter to my arguements...I am not one who believes that my opinions are the only valid ones...but I think that solutions come from debate. Guess I expected too much from a guy whom can only muster school yard insults, and bully esq challenges to learn to shoot my bow. Probably a good sign he won't have anything to contribute.



I will give you a solution, SHUT UP AND SHOOT YOUR BOW! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY A SHOOT IS RUN DON'T GO. I AM DONE TALKING  ABOUT THIS, I DON'T THINK GOD COULD MAKE YOU HAPPY.


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

In a country that provides the masses means of communication beyond the necessity of mass gathering...college degrees and information to such a level that anyone can form an opinion and make a good argument in an intelligent and concise manner.  I present to you the reply we get here in response for the call of debate of the issue so we can achieve a good solution. "Shut up and shoot your bow!"

Thanks for your lack of contribution MI360. But if I am the one who is whining...you're the one whom needs a pacifier.


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> No No: Last year at Ft. Gordon they had approx 90 shooters. Would have had a whole lot more if the ALC JOAD team and GRIV had shown up.
> Would have been the best turn out the GBAA has had in the last few years if that had been the case...heard something about a mass email telling people not to come...but rumors abound.
> 
> Cause lord knows you can stay in your own back yard and shoot and have just as much fun can't ya?



Really? That statement, "but rumors abound" is so "school yard" as you call it. What - A bunch of .....this whole thread is. 

Why wouldn't you take just a minute out of the huge amount of time and energy that you spend on here bashing others, pick the dang phone, and have a civil
discussion with people that are the subject of regarding "rumors" and any other concerns you have, instead of resorting to such displays of childish, unpleasant, and what at the very least, is such misinformed - ............ gossip regarding ANY information that you are not privy to regarding my kids and our activities. 

For the last 3 years I made ALL decisions regarding where 
and when the ALC Hornet team competed.  Don' flatter yourself into thinking that you, in any way had any merit in my decision to not attend your event. 
When I felt my kids were ready, we went to competitions, when I felt we needed to work more than we needed to compete, we stayed home and worked. End of story. 
What the heck would we possibly gain by engaging in such a childish act. 
If you are happy to get on a public forum and bash other businesses, other archers, and other clubs, that Is one thing....I feel sad for you about that..... But.....if you start in on my kids, and my program, you will have a fight on your hands for sure


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## Toyrunner (Feb 28, 2013)

Miss Ginger said:


> Really? That statement, "but rumors abound" is so "school yard" as you call it. What - A bunch of .....this whole thread is.
> 
> Why wouldn't you take just a minute out of the huge amount of time and energy that you spend on here bashing others, pick the dang phone, and have a civil
> discussion with people that are the subject of regarding "rumors" and any other concerns you have, instead of resorting to such displays of childish, unpleasant, and what at the very least, is such misinformed - ............ gossip regarding ANY information that you are not privy to regarding my kids and our activities.
> ...



Glad to see "Chicago style politics" alive and well in the ATL.


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

Miss Ginger, I apologize for anything I may have said that upset you concerning your JOAD club. Be careful with some of the way you phrase things on this board...I only say this so you don't loose your privledges to post here.  I have received warning to posting in such a manner that "_" can be read as curse words...and the mods round here don't like that at all.

I understand you make decisions you consider to be in the best interest of your students...and as a instructor myself, I have a simple question regarding that decision...What did lead you to it exactly? Too many new shooters? Or just a collective sence of " they where not ready." Did you feel they had worked out those issues and where ready shortly there after to attend the national indoor?


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Miss Ginger, I apologize for anything I may have said that upset you concerning your JOAD club. Be careful with some of the way you phrase things on this board...I only say this so you don't loose your privledges to post here.  I have received warning to posting in such a manner that "_" can be read as curse words...and the mods round here don't like that at all.
> 
> I understand you make decisions you consider to be in the best interest of your students...and as a instructor myself, I have a simple question regarding that decision...What did lead you to it exactly? Too many new shooters? Or just a collective sence of " they where not ready." Did you feel they had worked out those issues and where ready shortly there after to attend the national indoor?



Oops, I would never curse deliberately on any public forum..... I did use initials, probably shouldn't have. The forum wouldnt let me, even do that, that is a good thing. Sorry. No No: Just really had a bad moment there when I saw how we were being misrepresented in such an unfair and inaccurate manner. I think you might consider taking some of your own advise here, it would go a long way in the effort to promote good archery for anyone that happened to wander onto this forum.


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh, I am not worried about my posting privileges...I know what lines not to cross...and as I have shown over and over apparently I know how to incite negative reaction...whether that was my intention or not.  

So, as per my follow up question...What did you see in your children of the JOAD that made you decide to not attend last years GBAA state indoor?


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Oh, I am not worried about my posting privileges...I know what lines not to cross...and as I have shown over and over apparently I know how to incite negative reaction...whether that was my intention or not.
> 
> So, as per my follow up question...What did you see in your children of the JOAD that made you decide to not attend last years GBAA state indoor?



I don't really remember that far back. We have sooooo many things going on with sooo many kids, it's hard to say. The one thing I can assure you about is... We have never boycotted any event, that would be pure foolishness


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

What would make you not want to bring your kids to a shoot? Just for my knowledge  in the part of pure speculation that I may be in that situation so as to call off for my entire group of kids to go to a shoot.


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

It's hard to pinpoint any one thing. Sometimes it's a form glitch that has cropped up, sometimes their little mental games get outta whack a bit, sometimes I slow down their shooting a bit to prevent soft tissue stress....... Just really depends on what's going at the time. The indoor season is very intense for little guys, weekend after weekend for several months, not much recovery time between weekends. Sometimes they need to rest more than they need to shoot in order to make it through the entire indoor season and remain healthy


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

So how many indoor shoots do you have these kids attending each season? How often are their practices even in the off season?


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

We go to as many as they can handle. They also shoot 3 tournament nights a week at ALC. its a whole lotta shooting, that's for sure!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

Interesting. With all that though you have to admit that it does seem odd for your JOAD not to attend the GBAA indoor last year...and in turn why those rumors abounded. Glad you where able to give us some insight into that issue...


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## red1691 (Feb 28, 2013)

900 Shooter said:


> One solution is that we could go back to the way it was and shoot at Ft Gordon where about 40 shooters total participated and because of the registration process was finalized the day of the shoot, the shoot was always late starting



We've been hosting GBAA State shoots the past couple of years "the way it was" and had to "finalize the day of the shoot" I Don't remember always starting late! I'm sure we started on time!!!
Or are you just trying to pick one out of the group?


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

Every one is entitled to their opinion. Regarding your references to so called rumors, again, I have much more important things to focus on, and my time is very taken up with my work, to concern myself with people that don't have a clue what they are talking about. Rumors are always spread by scaredy cats.


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

Now I have to ask ya Miss Ginger...with this schedule you keep these kids on. How many of your JOAD kids where in attendance of the State indoor at ALC two years ago? AND have you ever called off those kids from attending a shoot at the ALC?


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## Miss Ginger (Feb 28, 2013)

Wow.  Give it a rest, man.


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

It's just a simple question...


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## watermedic (Feb 28, 2013)

Easy Tony!

Discuss it in person this weekend. The truth is already known as the information came direct from a Hornet!


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## ScarletArrows (Feb 28, 2013)

Won't be there this weekend...regretfully, considering all the trouble I have stirred up here. I should stand in person and defend my...as MI360 put it "whining"...I call them opinions and arguements. But I badly wanted to attend an R100, and  down in Tampa this weekend is the only one that is close this year. So I am headed that direction with a buddy whom wanted to go. (well not so much regretfully I do enjoy 3-D a whole lot more than spots. On top of the fact that I just don't think they'd let me in the door at this point...)

Have fun! Hopefully will make it that direction to shoot at Thomson for a 3-D again or possibly see ya at the Spring Turkey.

I just hope that I'm not alone in these opinions...something tells me I am not... but I really do hope that the GBAA officers have a stance on pre-registration requirements that shuts me up.


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## MI360 (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Won't be there this weekend...regretfully, considering all the trouble I have stirred up here. I should stand in person and defend my...as MI360 put it "whining"...I call them opinions and arguements. But I badly wanted to attend an R100, and  down in Tampa this weekend is the only one that is close this year. So I am headed that direction with a buddy whom wanted to go. (well not so much regretfully I do enjoy 3-D a whole lot more than spots. On top of the fact that I just don't think they'd let me in the door at this point...)
> 
> Have fun! Hopefully will make it that direction to shoot at Thomson for a 3-D again or possibly see ya at the Spring Turkey.
> 
> I just hope that I'm not alone in these opinions...something tells me I am not... but I really do hope that the GBAA officers have a stance on pre-registration requirements that shuts me up.



HAHA that is funny. You have fussed and whined about something that you do not even plan to shoot. Now that is showing your true support of GBAA, and then you fuss at Miss Ginger because she didnt have her kids there last year. Fuss and whin then run shoot somewhere else i am not surprised.


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## ScarletArrows (Mar 1, 2013)

Regardless of where I am shooting, I am a GBAA member. True Support is paying your dues, attending as many shoots as you can, helping to promote the sport, and helping keep things fair for all the members.  

So how many of those GBAA shoots have you attended over the years Mitchell?

Sorry, the R100 was being held the same weekend of the Indoor and this is the only one close. That I have no control over.

I raised the issue, because as was proven early in this thread some of the officers involved did not even know what was going on. 

That's what a forum like this is for...discussion, debate, and promotion. A key factor you seem to have lost in your first post towards me. Insult, and apparently the inability to read any of my replies (because I have already stated I wasn't going to attend...but apparently you missed that till now...guess less a post is more than 3 paragraphs long you either arn't willing to read it, or can't) is all you can muster.

Got a bit of your own advice for you..."Shut up and learn to shoot your bow." You're not contributing here.


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## Dewey3 (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> This about the fact that pre-registration with the GBAA has been done for the last few years via a website that is maintained out of our dues for the GBAA... being forced off of a site we already pay for to pre-register is mind numbing.



I'm sorry you don't understand. Host the state indoor next year yourself. Maybe contribute something constructive, and you'll have a better grasp. 

My goal is to provide the best tournament experience. I want to be on time. I want to be organized when everyone arrives. I want to be sure everyone who pre-registers knows where they are to be shooting and when at all times during the match. 

If you ever showed up to one of our shoots, you would know what I am talking about. 

Its about customer service and making sure everyone's experience with the GBAA is the best possible. 

I think it's ok to require pre-payment. 

I have to pre-pay for awards, event location, chairs, concession foods, toilets, paper for score cards, targets, printer ink Etc. 

Prepayment helps me do that without going broke. It also insures I don't prepare for 120 people and then actually get payment for 35. 

This is how I run a shoot - For the customer. If you don't like it, Run for office, and don't accept my bids anymore. 

However, while you are at home complaining on your computer, we will be here having a good time and shooting. enjoy.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

Dang! I just realized I posted while dad was logged in.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Second, you claim it is so you can be better organized because you don't want registrants from 3-4 different locations.
> Which can easily be slimmed down to two, mail it to you and GBAA site.



The whole point of having you register with me, online, was to have one stream of registrations that could be easily organized.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> GRIV by all means I think you may be doing great things in your area for archery and for the state. I want to support them. But I will always be that guy whom stands in the back of the auditorium questioning whether this guy up front has our best intentions or his wallet at heart.



Is anyone still under the delusion that the hosts of these shoots make any money? 

I spend upfront, split it with the GBAA. Once all expenses are settled and done. ALC JOAD will have made more money on hotdogs and candybars - because they were donated.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Its a way for guys in your postion to prove to other less vocal indiviuals that your motives are driven to benefit the state organization, of which you are holding this tournament for.



you are NOT a less vocal individual. You are a less participating individual. 

I am hosting this tournament for the archers. I am not doing this for the GBAA. Granted they benefit to a small degree. They make a little for the organization. I make a little for my organization. 

I host this shoot and put up with guys like you for archery in the state. It's your turn. Bid on it and Host it. I promise not to kick your teeth in and not show up.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Because from what I have read you're not providing anything as counter to my questioning of your responses besides a school yard "quit your complaining and pay up" bully esq. mentallity. Which is a great arguement by the way...it just helps to prove that things probably arn't as stated. My suggestion, come up a consciese arguement that doesn't sound like you want my lunch money. It belittles your intelligence and mine.



No one is bullying you. We explained what the $2 was for, and offered you the paper form as an alternative. 

The rest of this is in response to you needling everyone on here for sport.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

ScarletArrows said:


> Now I have to ask ya Miss Ginger...with this schedule you keep these kids on. How many of your JOAD kids where in attendance of the State indoor at ALC two years ago? AND have you ever called off those kids from attending a shoot at the ALC?



Yes, and often. 

We have 22 kids in our top program. Currently 12 or so of them are shooting the State.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

watermedic said:


> Easy Tony!
> 
> Discuss it in person this weekend. The truth is already known as the information came direct from a Hornet!



Y'all need to discuss that with me. It didn't happen.


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## GRIV (Mar 1, 2013)

I just searched our system. The only email that went out concerning the GBAA State was a copy of the registration form.


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## ScarletArrows (Mar 3, 2013)

GRIV, 
Thanks for providing clear and concise statements as to why you're doing the things you are. I appreciate that. 

I don't agree with treating me as though I am not a participating individual but...whatever. I know that I show up when I can...and you do too. Such is the nature of being an adult, and having responsiblities, other obligations, or other desires for what to do with your weekend.

I stir pots and post on here because I feel that sometimes the actions taken on part of individuals may not be in the best interest of their "customers". And lord knows I might bark up a tree that is empty every once in a while.  I just want to make double sure that everyone is getting a fair shake.

What you offered up as response for the service fee charges, was not explained in a manner that left no room for question. I am glad to see that you gave me a bit more to understand your reasoning but I still question the need for prepayment requirements. Its a risk to plan for 120 and get 100 I understand that. But prepairedness for a tournament, has been done before without prepayment via many clubs across the state.  They have not gone bankrupt as a result. Its a part of the prepairedness to have that money to get things going, and roll those dice on possible arrivals. Just as much as it is to take that shot at the bullseye...occasionally no matter how good you get it all set up, and aimed...it goes wild. But you do it over and over again for love of the sport.

And starting on time...is a loose arguement at best...simply because being at an archery tournament is often a all day event. We all know that rarely do they get going right on the money, and planning for that should be a part of any competitive archers agenda.

Furthermore, when I explained the issue to several of my 'customers'...not a single one argued in agreement with you about the issue of making archers sign up via your site especially with the pre-payment requirement, when the GBAA already provides one. Hence why I felt the need to ,well, "kick you in the teeth."

Issues get brought to me, I use the means I have at my disposal to raise them. 

Kicking anyone in the teeth, is not my intention. As a man of your experience. You're well versed enough to defend your actions...and have done so well here. My rhetoric is designed to invoke response. If you noticed I reworded and rewrote my posts...several times. Because simply I wanted to make my points and give someone a basis to respond to them.  Some individuals whom frequent here have a tendancy to not use the power a forum like this, to the best of its ability. The knee jerk name calling and down right indignation that goes on should be squashed quickly enough, with challenges to be or do better.

And I'm not immune...I know this. Even in my attempts at staying above that, I sink to those levels. I'm not proud of it...but such is the nature of the internet. Sometimes a sarcastic attitude can't be contained. And for that I do apologize. I should take my own desires to be better and do better and apply them at home.

Any 'needling', whatever that may be, is not done for sport. No one can sit idly by and be called names when someone is asking questions, and raising valid points. If it upsets anyone, then simply, they should just ignore me.
It would beget the best interest of both parties if you keep in mind...these are just words on a screen.

But as I have stated before...you can ignore the questioner, but not the consequences of asking those questions.

But Thank you GRIV, for all that you have done for the GBAA and the State Indoor. You are a true ambassador of the sport, and no one appreciates those individuals more than I do. Understand one thing, I have no axe to grind with you personally. I may stand here and question you directly for your actions. But I do respect you, hence why I do raise questions and hopefully, get responses...

My personal stance on this is simple... this sport ain't cheap. And as people whom hold tournaments, we have to do everything possible to make shooting them as inviting as possible. 2 bucks isn't much...but shoot enough tournaments that charge you a service fee and you quickly have less money to attend other tournaments...or buy arrows, releases, sights, stablizers, new bows...and before you know it...there seem to be less shooters. Cause they just can't afford to enjoy the sport you and I both love. Then what has that 2 bucks got ya...

I don't want to see a trend develop, that squashes what we are all working hard to do. Which is involve more people, and continue the growth of our sport.  If I have to make a few guys angry at me on the internet for that...so be it.


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