# What's the Vision/Goal of Your Church?



## rjcruiser (Jan 25, 2012)

In light of a few of the other threads...and actually what I'm going through personally, what is the vision/goal of your church?

If you can post it, I'd appreciate it.  Just trying to get ideas as to what it should be for a Church.


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## JB0704 (Jan 25, 2012)

Not to derail your thread (which I hope gets some good responses), but my last church's vision was whatever the pastor told us it was....seriously.


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## formula1 (Jan 25, 2012)

*Re:*

"Eagle's Landing First Baptist Church exists to glorify God by involving people in a growing relationship with Jesus Christ"

But the practical description and what makes more sense to me is this:

Love, Live, Give and Go

Loves God and others.
Lives in community with other believers.
Gives faithfully of truth, time, talents and treasure.
Goes on mission to make-disciples.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 25, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Not to derail your thread (which I hope gets some good responses), but my last church's vision was whatever the pastor told us it was....seriously.



No worries...every thread in here eventually gets derailed 


But...with that being said...what was his vision then? 

Was it to grow beyond the capacity of the current building?  Was it to reach the lost?  Was it to deepen the faith of those who came?


I'm really curious on this one as it is something I'm personally struggling with.


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## JB0704 (Jan 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> But...with that being said...what was his vision then? .



There were some stated  principles similar to what F1 just posted (very, very similar), but the general direction was referred to as his vision.  Such as "hey folks, we are going to do multi-site now...this is the vision God has given me."  So, his vision was then the direction of the church, and you must be on board or leave.



rjcruiser said:


> Was it to grow beyond the capacity of the current building?  Was it to reach the lost?  Was it to deepen the faith of those who came?.



In action is was all to grow in numbers.  In words it was to lead people to a "deeper relationship with Christ."




rjcruiser said:


> I'm really curious on this one as it is something I'm personally struggling with.



Be careful with struggling, I mean that, I am still wandering through my personal wilderness...four years later....


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## Ronnie T (Jan 25, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> In light of a few of the other threads...and actually what I'm going through personally, what is the vision/goal of your church?
> 
> If you can post it, I'd appreciate it.  Just trying to get ideas as to what it should be for a Church.



Folks, how bout we just focus on the overall positive aspect of Christ's church rather than .......................


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## BCPerry (Jan 25, 2012)

Why ya stealing my thunder Eddie? I was gonna say that.






formula1 said:


> "Eagle's Landing First Baptist Church exists to glorify God by involving people in a growing relationship with Jesus Christ"
> 
> But the practical description and what makes more sense to me is this:
> 
> ...


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## stringmusic (Jan 25, 2012)

http://www.thesharonchurch.com/#/start-here/who-we-are


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## rjcruiser (Jan 25, 2012)

Ronnie T said:


> Folks, how bout we just focus on the overall positive aspect of Christ's church rather than .......................





Is your Church's vision not a positive aspect of it?


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## formula1 (Jan 25, 2012)

BCPerry said:


> Why ya stealing my thunder Eddie? I was gonna say that.



Sorry, Bryan, just faster on the keyboard than you!!!


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## thedeacon (Jan 25, 2012)

THE SAN JOSE CHURCH OF CHRIST

We are energetic children learning how to fall in love with Jesus.
We are teenagers putting their faith in action by working in a medical clinic in Nicaragua.
We are college students discovering that Jesus is the answer to the toughest questions in life.
We are a refugee family from Haiti, finding a place of grace and hope after so many years of desperation.
We are parents trying to raise children to have eternal values that do not shift with every emerging media message.
We are empty nesters enjoying successful careers who recognize that this world is temporary, and that something better awaits.
We are seasoned citizens sharing a lifetime of wisdom with the generations to come.
We are a family, diverse in age, race, nationality, income levels, marital status, and political preference.
We are a family who shares one mission:

The San Jose Church of Christ Exists to Love, Experience, Celebrate, and Share Jesus Christ, Until He Returns.

We are committed to evangelism and world-wide church growth through missions.  Our missions outreach is growing.  Presently, we support mission work in Momotombo and Malpaisillo, Nicaragua, and Port Elizabeth, South Africa.  Every summer, our members are invited to go on mission campaigns to assist these works.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 25, 2012)

To glorify God through honoring His name, living in His Son and our Savior Jesus Christ, teaching His word, loving His people, 
and expanding His kingdom.


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## mossyback8874 (Jan 25, 2012)

My home church is Sherwood Baptist in Albany, GA.  We just recently laid out a 8 year plan. We are going to plant a church a year for the next 8 years, all in urban underprivileged areas, we've already planted one in Baltimore and San Fransisco.  We are focusing on a large term mission to Cuba, and putting permanent missionaries in a currently undetermined unreached people group.  We just inherited a 60,000 square foot facility that used to be a coke plant and we're going door to door in our hometown trying to determine the needs of the people around the old coke plant to determine the best use of the facility.  Our community is 82% unchurched, so we're really focusing on that too.  Our motto is "reaching the world from Albany, GA", and we're serious about the Great Commission.


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## 1gr8bldr (Jan 25, 2012)

Cutting right to it, attendance


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## centerpin fan (Jan 25, 2012)

mossyback8874 said:


> Our community is 82% unchurched ...



Really?  In _Georgia_?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

I listen intently to the entire sermon our pastor preaches. He preaches new and old testament, but his ultimate goal is salvation. He knows that once salvation is achieved, then conviction sets in, the Holy Spirit discerns the word. We know very  little about the entire context of the bible, but we do grasp the simple salvation of the gospel and that's all we gotta do...the rest comes along with it. I don't have to grasp or understand the entire bible....all I have to do is believe that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for my sins....john 3:16. How easy is that?


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## Israel (Jan 26, 2012)

such an odd question...not bad or good...not needful, or needless...but odd.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 26, 2012)

mossyback8874 said:


> My home church is Sherwood Baptist in Albany, GA.  We just recently laid out a 8 year plan. We are going to plant a church a year for the next 8 years, all in urban underprivileged areas, we've already planted one in Baltimore and San Fransisco.  We are focusing on a large term mission to Cuba, and putting permanent missionaries in a currently undetermined unreached people group.  We just inherited a 60,000 square foot facility that used to be a coke plant and we're going door to door in our hometown trying to determine the needs of the people around the old coke plant to determine the best use of the facility.  Our community is 82% unchurched, so we're really focusing on that too.  Our motto is "reaching the world from Albany, GA", and we're serious about the Great Commission.



Wow...those are some lofty goals...but awesome.  That is what I was kinda looking for.



Israel said:


> such an odd question...not bad or good...not needful, or needless...but odd.



Really?

I kind of look at it more like my own spiritual life...or even a business life.  If you don't have a goal, you're just wandering.  If you are just staying put, you're not growing.  If you don't have a vision, you'll never get there.

I'm trying wrestling with what the Biblical idea of what goals and vision a church should have.  I look to Acts as the guide as it was a history of the early church and I see missions, growth, persecution etc etc.  Wondering what goals/vision is both Biblical and challenging.  

Then I think of some of the OT prophets who preached God's word for decades and never had a convert.  


So....to further the discussion along, what do you think is a Biblical vision and/or goals for a church...really a church plant or a young church?


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## JB0704 (Jan 26, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> So....to further the discussion along, what do you think is a Biblical vision and/or goals for a church...really a church plant or a young church?



I am curious if the vision/goal should be universal because the body is?  Or is there localized "sub-visions" in the Bible?

MPO is that the great commision is the vision for the church.....given by the head pastor.


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## Israel (Jan 26, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Wow...those are some lofty goals...but awesome.  That is what I was kinda looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't mean for it to sound dismissive. 
I just thought the Lord set the goal, not us.
I sometimes wonder if we think growing to the fullness of the stature of Christ, is like taking a train to Pittsburgh...maybe nothing less than being faithful unto death is both the goal on this side, and the revelation of the depot sign on the other?
Aren't our lives absolutely, irrevocably ordered by the Lord to bring us to that? 
I thought that's what happens to believers...they come to know Jesus as their life, even if they don't know it at the start. 
And the Church is both a place to encourage growth in that knowledge and also comfort those who are learning they have a daddy who is not ashamed to discipline them.
Sometimes a shoulder to cry on is very welcome after a living demonstration of "he touched me..."


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## Ronnie T (Jan 26, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I am curious if the vision/goal should be universal because the body is?  Or is there localized "sub-visions" in the Bible?
> 
> MPO is that the great commision is the vision for the church.....given by the head pastor.



I think the Bible teaches that one should mostly look to the goal of Christ's church as presented in the Gospel, then make it a part of each local congregation.
It's also important to allow God to work in the local congregation...... in other words, don't get cemented in to a 3 year plan without leaving room for God to deal with your local church as he has planned.

Personally, I never set attendance goals or growth goals.  If I did, they would always be unattainable.

"Preach the Word, in season or out.  Maintain the church as the very body of Christ Himself.  Make Christ the reason for everything that's ever accomplished by, or in, the church.  Keep the thinking of the world out of the church.  Be careful of traditions that might taint the purity of Christ's body as it gives itself to worshipping and honoring Him.  Maintain the church as established.  Christs as the head of the church..... not the pastor or elders or deacons, but Christ.  Go to Christ for the questions, answers, and solutions.  Individual Christians should be sharing the Gospel, and their lives with other people.  Become the salt unto the world and a light upon their faces.  Sow, sow, sow, sow.  God will give the increases as He wills.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 26, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> I am curious if the vision/goal should be universal because the body is?  Or is there localized "sub-visions" in the Bible?
> 
> MPO is that the great commision is the vision for the church.....given by the head pastor.



But is the great commission for the church? or is it for the disciples/members of the church?

Is the church to reach the lost? or is the church to grow the members so that they can reach the lost?

Honest questions here guys...not looking for a canned answer and I don't have a set mind either.



Israel said:


> I didn't mean for it to sound dismissive.



Didn't take it that way....just think it is something that we need to think about as we go to church as I believe we are to be active in the local church.  If we are to be active, I think it is important to know what the church is striving for.



Ronnie T said:


> I think the Bible teaches that one should mostly look to the goal of Christ's church as presented in the Gospel, then make it a part of each local congregation.
> It's also important to allow God to work in the local congregation...... in other words, don't get cemented in to a 3 year plan without leaving room for God to deal with your local church as he has planned.
> 
> Personally, I never set attendance goals or growth goals.  If I did, they would always be unattainable.
> ...



Right...I don't think attendance goals are Biblical goals.  Again, look at several OT prophets as examples.


So, again...to keep the discussion moving forward...say you had just started a church.

What goals would you have in place?  In a year from now, what would you want to see accomplished?  In 3 years from now...in 5 years from now?


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## jmharris23 (Jan 26, 2012)

This is not in eloquent or edited form, but my goals for a young church would be

1. To faithfully and unapologetically preach the Word (in my mind this means mostly expositionally, which helps to stay awy from a topical, man-centered approach to teaching)
2. To faithfully serve the community by the power of the Gospel
3. To faithfully provide an atmosphere of discipleship and fellowship
4. To faithfully live out the missional aspects of the church both locally and abroad


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## mossyback8874 (Jan 26, 2012)

centerpin fan said:


> Really?  In _Georgia_?



Yeah, Albany is somewhat different than other places in Georgia. If I'm being honest, it's not a very pleasant place to live.  Actually, the Church I attend is mainly what keeps me and the family there.


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## JB0704 (Jan 26, 2012)

mossyback8874 said:


> Yeah, Albany is somewhat different than other places in Georgia. If I'm being honest, it's not a very pleasant place to live.  Actually, the Church I attend is mainly what keeps me and the family there.



Is your church the one that makes all the movies?


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## mossyback8874 (Jan 26, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Is your church the one that makes all the movies?



Yes, it's the same one.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 26, 2012)

Israel said:


> I didn't mean for it to sound dismissive.
> I just thought the Lord set the goal, not us.
> I sometimes wonder if we think growing to the fullness of the stature of Christ, is like taking a train to Pittsburgh...maybe nothing less than being faithful unto death is both the goal on this side, and the revelation of the depot sign on the other?
> Aren't our lives absolutely, irrevocably ordered by the Lord to bring us to that?
> ...



Beat me to it.

Isn’t the objective to be none of self?
Do we practice for that by making our own plans?
Are we privy to the big picture?
Is God glorified by our acts, or His acts through us?


Is the disciple above the teacher?  Is the slave above his master?
John 12:
49.  I don't speak on My own authority. The Father who sent Me gave me His own instructions as to what I should say. 
 50.  And I know His instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells Me to say!"


I know there is much is scripture, but relying on my understanding to make plans on God’s behalf is very scary.

Want to make God laugh?  Tell Him your plans for tomorrow.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 26, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> I know there is much is scripture, but relying on my understanding to make plans on God’s behalf is very scary.
> 
> Want to make God laugh?  Tell Him your plans for tomorrow.



Does the Lord not want us to plan for the future?  Or should we just bury our talents in the dirt and let go and let God?


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## hummerpoo (Jan 27, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Does the Lord not want us to plan for the future?  Or should we just bury our talents in the dirt and let go and let God?



Sorry for my lack of clarity RJ.  I’ll try not to indicate any special knowledge of what the Lord wants in my response, because I don’t have any.

“let go and let God” is probably an accurate statement if properly applied.  It should not mean doing nothing, it should not mean not planning for the future, and it should not mean burying our God given talents in the dirt.

It should mean that everything that we do, say, or think should be guided by our Lord (that’s what a Lord does).  As soon as the slightest desire of the man of flesh sneaks in that deed, word, or thought is unholy.  As to the question of how we do that; I guess “through Him who strengthens me” says it better than I can.  For myself, those things which have come closest to fitting the picture have been spontaneous and unplanned, and I usually whisper over my shoulder, “Thank You Lord”.  I probably should yell it to the heavens.

A deep understanding of our incapability as we plan our actions is the greatest asset of which I am aware.

Col 3:17
“Whatever you do in word or deed, {do} all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father” makes me ask as I plan “Can I do this, or say this, in the name of my Lord Jesus?”


As a matter of observation, I don't recall having seen God's sovereignty highlighted in a church's declaration of their vision.


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## JB0704 (Jan 27, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> As a matter of observation, I don't recall having seen God's sovereignty highlighted in a church's declaration of their vision.



Does God give people / pastor's / churches visions outside of what is given through scripture?

For instance, there is a new church in Canton which has it's vision (actually, they claim it is the pastor's vision that they follow) as "reaching messy people for Christ."  That could be scriptural, I would think reaching everybody is the goal, but they indicate that "messy people" are the niche they are trying to carve out.  

Does God give one church this category, and the church one mile away a different category?  If so, how does anybody know what is "God's plan?"


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## Ronnie T (Jan 27, 2012)

I pray that God's will be sought, and be done, in all churches, no matter their annual motto.
To become all things to all people for the spread and acceptance of salvation in Jesus Christ.


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## Israel (Jan 27, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Does God give people / pastor's / churches visions outside of what is given through scripture?
> 
> For instance, there is a new church in Canton which has it's vision (actually, they claim it is the pastor's vision that they follow) as "reaching messy people for Christ."  That could be scriptural, I would think reaching everybody is the goal, but they indicate that "messy people" are the niche they are trying to carve out.
> 
> Does God give one church this category, and the church one mile away a different category?  If so, how does anybody know what is "God's plan?"



I am awaiting the knock on my door...

Actually I shouldn't joke...cause there's something inherent in that "mission statement" ,
if it be true, (and I have no reason to doubt you) that's horribly obnoxious. By assigning others to some particular condition, position, estate, isn't the presumption that we are not of that ilk?
Therefore, if we are called to the messy, they are obviously, "them", and we therefore, are the "un" messy.
That's why we so often like to see ourselves as "helpers"...and frequently volunteer to be the same...for being the helper by definition places us in the position of "not being the one in need of help."

Now, nobody likes to be told their best efforts at serving God aren't worth the silly motives that spawned them...but also, that it doesn't matter...because God will be glorified in spite of all we think we do in service.

So, as we go to the messy, to the poor, to the helpless and weak...we go to everyone that we are convinced we are called to that are so unlike us that we can pour out the riches of our grace upon them and the balm of Gilead...we can indulge their great need of us...all the poor lost souls it so delights our hearts to imagine desperately need "us" and our light. 

Till they just don't seem grateful enough. 

Then we can find out where this Jesus we are so sure we know so well has purposed to finally introduce himself to us.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 27, 2012)

JB0704 said:


> Does God give people / pastor's / churches visions outside of what is given through scripture?
> 
> Does God give one church this category, and the church one mile away a different category?  If so, how does anybody know what is "God's plan?"



The ice may be a little thin here but I don't think so.

"outside"? ... I like "in addition to" and clearly supported by better.  Maybe "directed within" scripture.

Yes, your "messy people" church, at least on the surface, sounds quite credible.

How does one know?  I'm not ask a lot of questions, but that has to be way up on the top of the popularity list.
It's relationship, it's God given sensitivity, it's practice, it's praying without ceasing, it's having the word in your heart and on your tongue, it's the indwelling Holy Spirit, it's not instant satisfaction.  Although the context, as I recall, is not dead on target with our conversation, Heb. 5:14 and context is helpful in answering your question.


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## rjcruiser (Jan 27, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> Sorry for my lack of clarity RJ.  I’ll try not to indicate any special knowledge of what the Lord wants in my response, because I don’t have any.
> 
> “let go and let God” is probably an accurate statement if properly applied.  It should not mean doing nothing, it should not mean not planning for the future, and it should not mean burying our God given talents in the dirt.
> 
> ...



I get ya....and I guess that is what I'm struggling with a little bit...maybe.

I look at Paul as he travelled throughout the book of Acts and when he went to each town/village/city, he had a purpose/plan of attack.  He first went to the synagogue and started preaching there.   That was his plan....now, I'm sure he would change it if necessary and I'm sure he looked to God for guidance, but that is what he did.

I just can't see one not planning for the future...having a vision of what we hope to accomplish.  Now, that plan has to involve God's guidance and we have to realize that God can open/shut doors as He sees fit.  But if we don't want to move forward towards a goal, we'll fail everytime....right?

Like Paul says...I press on towards the goal....he also had plans to go to Rome...as well as he hoped to return to other churches in the future.

Are we not to plan and hope, with the attitude that the Lord can change our course when He wills?


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## gordon 2 (Jan 27, 2012)

The goals of my church are to nurture and help the faithful live and work in and from the light of the Good News.

Although it has micro and macro goals its organization is very different from the "free will" traditions of Baptists and others for example. While their's is a bottom  to top organization, mine is top to bottom. So the organization is different and the goals are different. One group starts from the perspective of the individual and on up, the other from the perspective of all the church and on down to the individual.

What some traditions, in their greater aspects, would give to missions and church plantings since the revivals, my tradition would receive the faithful and provide for them in this way: The pilgrim must make a first step not only to the alter but to all and every oppertunity that exits within--to share in the light that animates the church.... and of course that light is from Christ and His Kingdom as per the Good News.

We not so much workin' on a building as we are workin' on life itself, both individual and social, from the perspective of God our father in Jesus Christ. Justice, freedom and grace are not just ideas for a world to come, they are concrete values of the Kingdom as per the Good News, or values for the hear and now. The church is an instrument to this purpose...and there is always work to be done  even in it to promote the very values it professes.

And it is these values that set our goals, because we recognize them as belonging naturally to God's will. Our goal is to set out deciples into the world,  and into all aspects of it...

My church inspires ordinary people to walks and talks such as this:

"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped each time a man stands up for an ideal or acts to improve the lot of others or strikes out against injustice he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest wall of oppression and resistance." Robert Kennedy

The inspiration for my church is Christ.


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## hummerpoo (Jan 27, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Are we not to plan and hope, with the attitude that the Lord can change our course when He wills?



RJ, I really think the answer is no.

I’ve heard it said many times “If God’s not in it, it won’t work” _as an encouragement to go ahead and try it._  I confess that my flesh jumped up, red faced, and screamed “That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my whole life!!!”  I praise God that the Spirit maintained control and I never followed the flesh on that one.

I’m struggling with how to explain … perhaps a scriptural example.

Mat. 9:
37.  Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.
38.  "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest."

Have you heard this used as the basis for a sermon designed to encourage people to get out and start knocking on doors looking for the lost as many times as I have?  Is that what it says? 

36.	Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd.”

Need identified … right?  Jesus instruction to His disciples is “beseech the Lord of the harvest” not “go get your scythe”.  (I don’t know if “disciples” is the twelve or all who were following Him at the time; I strongly suspect the latter.) What is next? Jesus (the Lord of the harvest) calls the twelve, gives them power to do the job along with the most detailed instructions imaginable, and sends them out into the harvest.  Without rereading it now, I believe who, what, when, where, why, and how are fully covered in the charge He gave to the workers.

So, can we expect the same … why not?  If we see the need and start making plans to fill that need, trusting that God will stop us if we err, are we being a true disciple?  Will we be disappointed if we sincerely pray for the need to be filled and we are not chosen to do the work?  Not if God’s will and His glory is our true desire.  His glory is our only joy.

Do we trust that God knows what He is doing or not?
Do we trust that God has a plan for us or not?
Do we know what service God is preparing us for?
Do we need to know?
Could we understand if He told us?

I have some thoughts on Paul's mission but I’d better stop and let you refute, question, or whatever.  You didn’t ask for a book.


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## Israel (Jan 28, 2012)

hummerpoo said:


> RJ, I really think the answer is no.
> 
> I’ve heard it said many times “If God’s not in it, it won’t work” _as an encouragement to go ahead and try it._  I confess that my flesh jumped up, red faced, and screamed “That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my whole life!!!”  I praise God that the Spirit maintained control and I never followed the flesh on that one.
> 
> ...



yes.
How quickly, easily, we surmise that something that was not said...is being said.
We are told to ask...but instead we may assume we are ready to "roll up our sleeves"...when in fact some of us have discovered the very thing that presumes to roll up its sleeves (and sincerely is devoted to nothing less than showing how much its _self_ can do for the Lord...) is the very thing that needs a cross.
Now, the good news is not that we are abandoned when we misunderstand, but we sure do get tuned up...Boanerges ain't got nothin' on me...I just got tired of finding out the fire I called down was on my coordinates...and I wasn't as prepared for it as I thought. 
Someone very kind took me aside and asked...there's a way to make this stop...would you like to know it?

Now, Wile E Coyote would have had an easier time explaining away all his singed fur for mishandling that ACME box of TNT than was obviously impossible for a guy like me whose face was smoky and garb still smoldering for my mishandling of something far more delicate and precious. 

Jesus and his gospel is easily mishandled...he'll let men do almost anything to him...but I found out Daddy is not slow at all when dealing with anyone who claims Jesus as Lord...and brother. And that has surely been my salvation. "He touched me...oooooohhhh, he touched me...and oh, the sting that turned to joy..."

If I say I have learned anything I could well need to call "Servpro" (and He surely is) with smoke billowing out of my mouth.
But maybe I have seen something...for seeing doesn't automatically extend the presumption of boasting of apprehending anything. 

I just see a man who paid strict attention to every word as bread, and even tells me he has meat to eat about which I know not of.
He's the one who tells me..."pay attention".


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## gtparts (Jan 28, 2012)

I am utterly convinced that God will use whom He will use, with or without their permission and will furthermore accomplish His will with those who know themselves to be inadequate. In short, God qualifies the unqualified.

Good things are done "in God's name" that are straw and stubble to the one doing them in his own power. God has no problem bringing about the best, in spite of our misguided and self-directed attempts. We should not shrink then from doing good. 

Love God - Love People - Serve all! 

It really isn't any more complicated than that. The only caveat is that if we fail that, we have gone far beyond epic fail.


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## Israel (Jan 28, 2012)

Could it be that the great benefit in preaching the gospel is we may get to learn something about Jesus?


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2012)

Israel said:


> Could it be that the great benefit in preaching the gospel is we may get to learn something about Jesus?



Yes. I panteth for Him, and His word. I love studying any part of the bible. I'll never grasp it all, but it's very fulfilling in trying to grasp it. And sometimes a light bulb comes on and then I just want more and more.


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## mtnwoman (Jan 29, 2012)

gtparts said:


> I am utterly convinced that God will use whom He will use, with or without their permission and will furthermore accomplish His will with those who know themselves to be inadequate. In short, God qualifies the unqualified.
> 
> Good things are done "in God's name" that are straw and stubble to the one doing them in his own power. God has no problem bringing about the best, in spite of our misguided and self-directed attempts. We should not shrink then from doing good.
> 
> ...



I agree. 

Use me Lord, use me.


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## gtparts (Jan 31, 2012)

Israel said:


> Could it be that the great benefit in preaching the gospel is we may get to learn something about Jesus?



My brother, it is my personal belief that every breath I draw is intended to give me the opportunity to learn something of Jesus. It may be better than a benefit or bonus (my words); it may be the entire purpose, sometimes. I have heard the testimony of preachers, that if no one was spiritually moved to a closer relationship with Christ (again, my words), the gain was theirs alone.

Ministries have been changed, even resurrected.


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## Israel (Jan 31, 2012)

gtparts said:


> My brother, it is my personal belief that every breath I draw is intended to give me the opportunity to learn something of Jesus. It may be better than a benefit or bonus (my words); it may be the entire purpose, sometimes. I have heard the testimony of preachers, that if no one was spiritually moved to a closer relationship with Christ (again, my words), the gain was theirs alone.
> 
> Ministries have been changed, even resurrected.



I don't know that I could agree more.

At the end of all the work...is the end of all the work.


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## Israel (Jan 31, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> Does the Lord not want us to plan for the future?  Or should we just bury our talents in the dirt and let go and let God?



Jesus says many things recorded in the scriptures.
Sometimes it has seemed I have eaten them, believe I have taken them in...and yet...at various times the particular preciousness of their significance is seen as something I'd never really grasped at all.

If I single something out to "make a point" I fear I am no better than a pharisee, trying to justify myself before men.

But I am free to share, as are we all, and not only so...but also are so encouraged to.

I didn't know how precious these words are until I was compelled to take them to heart:

Mat 6:34  Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. 

I understand that the context of that deals particularly with our seeming proclivity to care for our physical needs. And I cannot dispute that. 
But I also saw much worry was borrowed from tomorrow, and next week, and next year...and on and on...in the service of what I thought was wisdom and prudence. Even in things like "how will I make sure to be an effective minister and steward of what may be the little I have seen...or been given to understand" (if anything at all).
I have seen many "todays" sacrificed on the service of what I thought was a goal, or where I thought I should be headed. 

I have even been very concerned about what I thought was others squandering of their days, words, time, and plans, until it really became a sore vexation.
How, Lord, how? Is there really a way, or part at all for me to play out in the restoration of sight?

Or, have I seen anything at all of you? Anything?

A mote is a small thing. As is a grain of sand. But when it is in the eye the tears flow from horrendous irritation as though a boulder lay lodged there. And vision is certainly impaired and distorted.

I found a friend with clear eyes and enough vision to help me. No log, beam, or mote there.

He told me he alone is both my vision and the Vision. 
And to always look for him, today.
And to not forget the lesson that is no less diminished or needful for any day as I once seemingly mistook it for only a particular starting of days: Ask, seek, knock.

It is always my starting day in the Lord.

And I see his grace in making me for only one at a time, and indeed, only giving me one to abide with Him in.
Today.

He does indeed judge how, or if, we steward rightly.


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## Ronnie T (Jan 31, 2012)

Great comments.
The weekly goal of each local church is the same goal as was taught to every 1st century church.  It hasn't changed, and it's all relevent each and every week.

The daily goal of each individual Christian is the same goal each and every day.  We don't need a "special" day to share God's love with other people, etc.

Now, different opportunities do arise from time to time as we grow and continue on in life.  Always looking, always seeking.
From time to time a church might see a particular area that they need to put back into focus.  As we reevaluate out past endeavors we hopefully recongize areas that we've been lax in.  It's then a good time to place that thing to the forefront and play 'catch-up' with it.

We just struggle on with our lives wanted and hoping to do as God wills for us to do.  God will lead us.


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## gtparts (Feb 1, 2012)

How sad that we too frequently neglect the good works appointed to us for the sake of our own agendas. 

If it is not harvest time, why are we trying to pull unripe fruit? Or if we have not participated in the work of planting, watering, weeding, or harvesting, how is it that we think we have a portion? Even so, a church that does not address and respond to the good work appointed to it, is less than a dry and withered branch, as surely as each individual who spurns his or her calling from the Lord.


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## StriperAddict (Feb 1, 2012)

_What's the Vision/Goal of Your Church?_ 

Ans:

To kick the devil in the teeth and light a fire under folks sitting on thier bless'd assurance.


~~~~Just for a 'lil levity


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## Madman (Feb 2, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> In light of a few of the other threads...and actually what I'm going through personally, what is the vision/goal of your church?
> 
> If you can post it, I'd appreciate it.  Just trying to get ideas as to what it should be for a Church.



Everything we do is to Glorify God by Leading People into a Growing Relationship with Jesus Christ


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## gtparts (Feb 2, 2012)

X2, Madman.

Ran across this today.

"Our business is to present the Christian faith clothed in modern terms, not to propagate modern thought clothed in Christian terms." 
     -Packer-

Thought it merited posting in this thread. Seems to apply to individuals and local churches or denominations, both.


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## Jeffriesw (Feb 3, 2012)

rjcruiser said:


> In light of a few of the other threads...and actually what I'm going through personally, what is the vision/goal of your church?
> 
> If you can post it, I'd appreciate it.  Just trying to get ideas as to what it should be for a Church.






From my Church's website

"To bring people to Jesus Christ and membership in his church family, develop them to Christlike maturity, equip them for their ministry in the church and life mission in the world, in order to magnify God's name."

http://www.tampabaypresbyterian.org/AboutUs/Mission.htm


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