# Snake bit!!!!!



## GAranger1403 (Aug 3, 2008)

Got Ya! Not quite what you think, got a call to remove this snake from a campground. Man on the phone says "man get here in a hurry, we got a mocassin under our camper". I told the man to calm down that I'm sure its just a water snake. He replies" Man I grew up here all my life, I know a mocassin when I see one. So I told the guy I would be there in a few minutes, to keep an eye on the snake. When I arrived I found this little guy coiled up near the camper. Without saying anything I just grabbed it, and of course it chowed down on my hands a few times before I could get it restrained. By then a crowd had gathered, they started freaking out because I was snake bit. Quite comical to say the least. The guy still went on about the snake being a cottonmouth, so I took the time to educate him on the differences between the two. I think he felt kinda silly afterwards, being ignorant in front of his entire family. I told him that the majority of people I encounter in south GA make the same mistake, you cannot ID a cottonmouth by body size, color or triangular head. Watersnakes have all of the same distinguishing characteristics. Anyway, after I convinced everyone I was not going to die I released this guy in the lake. He was feisty, don't know who caught who!


----------



## ray97303 (Aug 3, 2008)

Look like he got you pretty good!


----------



## 60Grit (Aug 3, 2008)

NASTY    -------    YUK !!!!!!!


----------



## germag (Aug 3, 2008)

Yeah, they're usually pretty grumpy when you catch them. Those bites bleed pretty good too.....

I agree, "moccasins" are absolutely the most misidentified snake on the planet. I hear people all the time in Cherokee County swearing up and down they found a cottonmouth (they are _absent_ in Cherokee County) on or around Lake Allatoona. It is invariably a water snake. They all think they _they_ have found the first ever cottonmouth ever actually confirmed in the area and rant and rave that they know what they are talking about and it _was_ a "water moccasin".  Even when I lived in areas where cottonmouths were common, the same thing happened. People would call me and tell me they had a cottonmouth and I would get there or they'd bring it to me and it was a water snake 90% of the time. I do remember one occasion though, when two young boys showed up at my place with a 5-gallon bucket they said contained a "water mocksakin"....I was fully expecting a water snake or maybe a black pine snake or a black racer or something....I opened that bucket and in it was the biggest cottonmouth I have ever seen in my life....and I was raised in the swamps ot Louisiana. That thing had to be 5 feet long and a thick as my bicep....and it had absolutely no sense of humor. It was ticked off. I don't have any idea how they got the thing in that bucket without getting tagged. It lived in my collection for about 4 or 5 years. It finally got so tame that I think you could probably free-hand it without much worry. I never tried it, of course...I'm not completely stupid. Although one day I'll tell you a story about a certain Alabama resident I met and his big Western Gaboon that he had a "special relationship" with......


----------



## Ths dog hunts!! (Aug 3, 2008)

Wat is it bout red bellies?? Been there!! Everyone else thinks he's a moccasin & so does he!! & this time a year seems their all grumpy, Recon its the heat????


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 3, 2008)

Ths dog hunts!! said:


> Wat is it bout red bellies?? Been there!! Everyone else thinks he's a moccasin & so does he!! & this time a year seems their all grumpy, Recon its the heat????



Just about every nerodian(water snake) I have come across will nail you. There are a few exceptions but not many. I see 100s of brown and banded waters every year. Talk about a nasty bite, a 4 foot plus brown will leave you pouring blood!!


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 3, 2008)

Germag, you, like me have obviously worked with several Cmouths. How many have you ever had to chase you? I have caught them in every state they occur except Arkansas, and work with several here every year. I have yet to see one chase me. In my experience they are almost always laid back, hard to get them to gape or strike most of the time. I show this in my venomous snake programs. People are always amazed when I lay a 4 foot Cmouth across my boot! Wearing chaps of course. I have had several cantakerous individuals that would try to bite, usually jumbo gravid females, but for the most part they are docile as far as venomous snakes go. Where do they get this terroristic reputation from.


----------



## germag (Aug 3, 2008)

GAranger1403 said:


> Germag, you, like me have obviously worked with several Cmouths. How many have you ever had to chase you? I have caught them in every state they occur except Arkansas, and work with several here every year. I have yet to see one chase me. In my experience they are almost always laid back, hard to get them to gape or strike most of the time. I show this in my venomous snake programs. People are always amazed when I lay a 4 foot Cmouth across my boot! Wearing chaps of course. I have had several cantakerous individuals that would try to bite, usually jumbo gravid females, but for the most part they are docile as far as venomous snakes go. Where do they get this terroristic reputation from.



I've captured, collected, and worked with literally hundreds and hundreds of them over the years. Actually, nearly every species of _Agkistrodon_ including the Asian species and the Mexican Cantils. I've _never_ had a single cottonmouth chase me or show any sign whatsoever of actual aggression. The cottomouth is actually one of the _least_ likely of this group to actually bite out of anger. If they are restrained they will sometimes bite...such as if you step on one or grab it and pick it up....but who can blame it? Sometimes they will stand their ground and gape at you and make little short lunges, but in my experience I've found that you have to make them feel cornered before they will do that. The vast majority of time they are just trying to make tracks and go somewhere else (where you aren't). I would place the Cantil at the other end of that spectrum....they absolutely will bite.....and a copperhead is much more prone to bite than a cottonmouth is. 

That being said....no matter how inoffensive a cottonmouth may actually be, it is foolhardy to give one an opportunity to bite. It is a very dangerous bite...very necrotic venom, and can easily cause massive tissue damage and even loss of extremeties due to amputation...and possibly even death. That includes any crotalid snake. If people would simply walk around them and leave them alone, the incidence of snakebite in the U.S. would decrease to nearly nothing. Way more than half of the snake envenomations in the U.S. occur when people try to capture or kill a snake they should have just left alone in the first place....you can bet those people probably won't do it again (if they do, what can I say? Darwin was right).


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 3, 2008)

I have tested them with the Whit Gibbons "UGA" technique. Steped around and on them "lightly of course" Tested over 100 last year, only got 3 to bite and with no appreciable venom release. Like you said though, I tell people to never mess with one. Someone might try to prove me wrong and find one that is having a bad day! I used to go herpin with a guy that would free handle some of them. Like I said used to, try not to work with people that are cavalier and unsafe. Besides he was into more than just snakes. Puff-Puff!


----------



## Hoss (Aug 3, 2008)

He doesn't have that "happy camper" look about him.  Neat photo and thanks for the information on snakes especially the parts cautioning folks that the safest way to handle a snake is to leave it alone.

Hoss


----------



## GAnaturalist (Aug 3, 2008)

GAranger1403 said:


> I have tested them with the Whit Giggons "UGA" technique. Steped around and on them "lightly of course" Tested over 100 last year, only got 3 to bite and with no appreciable venom release. Like you said though, I tell people to never mess with one. Someone might try to prove me wrong and find one that is having a bad day! I used to go herpin with a guy that would free handle some of them. Like I said used to, try not to work with people that are cavalier and unsafe. Besides he was into more than just snakes. Puff-Puff!



There are a couple of snake enthuasist that hang around your area, Waycross. There lived over near Obedia's swamp park (I forgot how to spell it, just South of Waycross). Thier names are Kyle and Trevor. Just ask for them at Obedia's. They have collected, and care for, more venomous snakes then any people I have ever met (I use to work for Laura S. Walker SP) 

Anyway, he has several "tame" cottonmouths. Yes, tame. He handles them like a normal non-venomous snake. I had a picture of Trevor somewhere holding a big 4ft. cottonmouth like it was a boa. He let me hold it too. If I can find the pic I will scan it and post it. They did some programs for me at Laura S. Walker a couple of years ago.

I know of a lot of snake experts, but these are the only guys I have met that will "free handle" a venomous snake without getting bit. Thier amazing.


----------



## germag (Aug 3, 2008)

GAranger1403 said:


> I have tested them with the Whit Giggons "UGA" technique. Steped around and on them "lightly of course" Tested over 100 last year, only got 3 to bite and with no appreciable venom release. Like you said though, I tell people to never mess with one. Someone might try to prove me wrong and find one that is having a bad day! I used to go herpin with a guy that would free handle some of them. Like I said used to, try not to work with people that are cavalier and unsafe. Besides he was into more than just snakes. Puff-Puff!



I'm sure it's just a finger-check (lord knows I make enough of those), but Whit's last name is actually Gibbons, not Giggons. He is a very, very good herpetologist (excellent chelonian guy). Back in my day, it was Whit Gibbons, Dr. Robert. H. Mount (Auburn University), Dan Speak, Bruce Means and a few other folks that were doing most of the field research in herpetology in the Southeast.


----------



## slimbo (Aug 3, 2008)

I have a pond on our huntin land that is eat up with them.  I've photoed several, but I cant get any of them to open their mouth.  I have had 2 come from the water up on the bank at me though.  I got a good picture of one doing this.


----------



## Nicodemus (Aug 3, 2008)

Slimbo, that`s a really good pic of a cottonmouth.


----------



## germag (Aug 3, 2008)

GAnaturalist said:


> There are a couple of snake enthuasist that hang around your area, Waycross. There lived over near Obedia's swamp park (I forgot how to spell it, just South of Waycross). Thier names are Kyle and Trevor. Just ask for them at Obedia's. They have collected, and care for, more venomous snakes then any people I have ever met (I use to work for Laura S. Walker SP)
> 
> Anyway, he has several "tame" cottonmouths. Yes, tame. He handles them like a normal non-venomous snake. I had a picture of Trevor somewhere holding a big 4ft. cottonmouth like it was a boa. He let me hold it too. If I can find the pic I will scan it and post it. They did some programs for me at Laura S. Walker a couple of years ago.
> 
> I know of a lot of snake experts, but these are the only guys I have met that will "free handle" a venomous snake without getting bit. Thier amazing.



No disrespect intended, but anyone that would freehand venomous snakes can certainly not be considered a "snake expert" IMHO, and is not someone to be looked up to or admired. I've seen a lot of people do that in my day.....but they certainly weren't really "experts". They were self-proclaimed "experts" with no training and no real understanding of the risk they were really running. Have you ever had a "tame" rat snake or king snake just decide to turn around and bite you unexpectedly...even though he never had before? What's to keep that "tame" cottonmouth from waking up on the wrong side of his cage one day and doing the same thing....but with MUCH worse consequences? I spent a whole bunch of years working with some of the most dangerous snakes in existence....I had a lot of them in my collection that became complacent and docile over the years...but I never met a venomous snake I would trust. I know from close-up and personal experience what happens when one of them does bite. I used to keep Kraits...most species of Kraits are well known for their reluctance to bite....I don't care how reluctant he is to bite, I know a guy in Louisiana that will tell you that they WILL sometimes bite because he got bitten by one. He came as close to dying as you can without actually dying, and if Bill Haast hadn't flown in and done a direct transfusion, he would have certainly died....and that's a snake he had free-handed many, many times.

Free-handing venomous snakes is a foolish, foolish thing to do, no matter what the circumstances or how well you think you know the snake and when I see someone doing that I know I can be dead certain that I'm looking at someone that has no idea what they are doing.


----------



## germag (Aug 3, 2008)

slimbo said:


> I have a pond on our huntin land that is eat up with them.  I've photoed several, but I cant get any of them to open their mouth.  I have had 2 come from the water up on the bank at me though.  I got a good picture of one doing this.




Cool photo!

I'm pretty certain he wasn't really "after" you, though.....you just happened to be where he wanted to go.


----------



## stev (Aug 3, 2008)

i like water snakes & land snakes 





hate you got bit .Any reactions from it at all.


----------



## jason308 (Aug 3, 2008)

Nice shot and story GARanger!!!!  Lots of confusion out there for sure......And lots of great candidates for Darwin awards out there too.....


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 3, 2008)

Germag is right, no intelligent reason to free handle a venomous snake!


----------



## Smokey (Aug 4, 2008)

GAranger1403 said:


> Germag is right, no intelligent reason to free handle a venomous snake!



Umm.....GAranger take a look at this http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=214180&highlight=coral+snake


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 4, 2008)

I was not being intelligent in that post!! Promise I was not intoxicated either!


----------



## dawg2 (Aug 4, 2008)

slimbo said:


> I have a pond on our huntin land that is eat up with them.  I've photoed several, but I cant get any of them to open their mouth.  I have had 2 come from the water up on the bank at me though.  I got a good picture of one doing this.



Nice pic.  Great example of how their entire body is buoyant, not swimming with just their heads out like a water snake.


----------



## puredrenalin (Aug 4, 2008)

Cool pix!! Ouchy.....that looks like it hurt a bit!


----------



## Razorback (Aug 4, 2008)

A couple of years back durring bow season I came across a Timber luckly I saw him first before he coiled up & rattled.

With bow in one hand w/ a nocked arrow & a  L-O-N-G  stick I penned him down then thought "_this is how people get bit_" released pressure on the stick & let him slide away.

Razor


----------



## germag (Aug 4, 2008)

That's a nice canebrake! Smart move letting him go his way. You were right......that is _exactly_ how people get bitten.


----------



## GAranger1403 (Aug 4, 2008)

Good move razorback!


----------



## Razorback (Aug 4, 2008)

Its kinda weird how the mind works when you have a nocked up arrow & bow in one hand and a long stick in the other with a really ANGRY venomous snake at the end of the stick  .  .  .  these are the thoughts that ran through my head before I let him go  .  .  .  Hmmm nice belt & wallet...I wonder what 'snakeman' will charge?...how am I gonna kill it before sending it to snakeman?...dang I don't want to blow up a $15 arrow & mess the hide up...what if I miss?...he'd be REAL MAD...then I came out of the fog of what if's  and lifted the stick up, backed up a couple BIG steps and then took a couple of picts & video cruised into the thick briars.

germag 





> ...that is exactly how people get bitten.


GAranger1403





> Good move razorback!



It took a few moments to realize this is how people get bit but I got there before the snake got to me.

Razor


----------

