# News on Grouper



## bird_dawg (Apr 26, 2011)

This is just flat out wrong

http://www.floridasportsman.com/casts/4_25_11//index.html


----------



## Parker Phoenix (Apr 26, 2011)

That is what I was hearing, and it ain't right.


----------



## asc (Apr 26, 2011)

Bout time the recs have to pay the piper...


----------



## d-a (Apr 26, 2011)

asc said:


> Bout time the recs have to pay the piper...



Its the commercial fisheries that have always depleted a stock not the recreational fishermen.

d-a


----------



## bird_dawg (Apr 27, 2011)

asc said:


> Bout time the recs have to pay the piper...



What??? Please explain. Are you saying that because rec fishermen catch somewhere close to the quota that commercial fishermen do?


----------



## asc (Apr 28, 2011)

According to NOAA recreational catch is 61% on gags. If FWC goes alond with the feds and closes gag harvest in state waters, then the feds will open a gag season in federal waters sept. 16 - nov. 15th with a quota around 700,000 #'s. Commercial quota will be increased around 300,000 #'s for an aprox total of around 400,000 #'s.  All the commercial Shallow Water Grouper are on catch shares and are capped at a certain amount. All of the gag shares were reduced to around 10% of last years TAC. The commercial catch is counted while there is no accountibilty on the rec side(dockside and phone surveys nonwithstanding).  Us commercials have been dealing with this crap for years, now it's your turn.


----------



## How2fish (Apr 28, 2011)

asc said:


> According to NOAA recreational catch is 61% on gags. If FWC goes alond with the feds and closes gag harvest in state waters, then the feds will open a gag season in federal waters sept. 16 - nov. 15th with a quota around 700,000 #'s. Commercial quota will be increased around 300,000 #'s for an aprox total of around 400,000 #'s.  All the commercial Shallow Water Grouper are on catch shares and are capped at a certain amount. All of the gag shares were reduced to around 10% of last years TAC. The commercial catch is counted while there is no accountibilty on the rec side(dockside and phone surveys nonwithstanding).  Us commercials have been dealing with this crap for years, now it's your turn.


 OK you start a fight on what NOAA stated? The same folks that brought us the "endangered red sanpper"...I've never said this before but its time to simply quit buying commercial seafood...your the bunch that brought the fish stocks down to start with. And as you get more powerful they will just continue to decline as no number will ever satisfy your greed. Time for us rec's to pay? Bubba we have been and we are about tired of it.


----------



## PCB Justin (Apr 28, 2011)

You have got to be kidding me. First let me start by saying that I do not agree with the feds management of either sides. I am a pc native and have friends and family (including myself) that make a living rec and comm fishin. What I don't understand is your attitude. These are public waters and everyone should have equal rights to equal amounts of the resource. Instead of fighting over seperate shares we need come together against the wacko feds.


----------



## d-a (Apr 28, 2011)

asc said:


> According to NOAA recreational catch is 61% on gags. If FWC goes alond with the feds and closes gag harvest in state waters, then the feds will open a gag season in federal waters sept. 16 - nov. 15th with a quota around 700,000 #'s. Commercial quota will be increased around 300,000 #'s for an aprox total of around 400,000 #'s.  All the commercial Shallow Water Grouper are on catch shares and are capped at a certain amount. All of the gag shares were reduced to around 10% of last years TAC. The commercial catch is counted while there is no accountibilty on the rec side(dockside and phone surveys nonwithstanding).  Us commercials have been dealing with this crap for years, now it's your turn.



All of the commercial catch is not required to be caught in one month like the recreational catch, giving you a longer season And the size of the Gag that you can keep is smaller than the recreational size.


Also not to mention that if you call in your commercial catch and a FWC personnel doesn't check you at the dock like most don't and if your over you estimated call in poundage like most are then you get  *free* poundage that doesn't count against The overall commercial catch.

Commercial fishermen have been the largest contribution to overfishing than all other entities combined. After all Every fish they can sell makes them more money, unlike the recreational fishermen.

d-a


----------



## asc (Apr 29, 2011)

d-a said:


> All of the commercial catch is not required to be caught in one month like the recreational catch, giving you a longer season And the size of the Gag that you can keep is smaller than the recreational size.
> 
> 
> Also not to mention that if you call in your commercial catch and a FWC personnel doesn't check you at the dock like most don't and if your over you estimated call in poundage like most are then you get  *free* poundage that doesn't count against The overall commercial catch.
> ...


Commercial size for GAG Grouper in the GOM is 24", rec size is 22". RED Grouper commercial size is 18" and rec is 20". You need to check your facts before you run your mouth. Y'all are funny, when the best available science is used for your benefit it's all good, but when it's not to your liking it's all smoke and mirrors. I've been active in fishery management policies and politics for the last twenty five years and I tell you one thing, blaming the other user groups ain't going to help you against PEW, EDF and their ilk. Why do you think we went to catch shares for reef fish and ARS? If y'all want to fish you're going to have to figure out some way to account for your catch. d a, a commercial reef fish boat in the GOM don't have a trip limit on grouper anymore they have an IFQ for each permit holder for the year. Once each permit holder reaches their poundage allotment for that year they are done fishing. If they exceed their allotment the excess is subtracted from the next years IFQ. Facts, deal in facts, not CCA drivel.


----------



## Parker Phoenix (Apr 30, 2011)

asc said:


> Bout time the recs have to pay the piper...



I say its time for the non fishing public to learn how to eat talapia.....Thats why we dislike you commercial guys so much...It's all about you......


----------



## asc (Apr 30, 2011)

Parker Phoenix said:


> I say its time for the non fishing public to learn how to eat talapia.....That's why we dislike you commercial guys so much...It's all about you......


Why should the non-fishing public have to eat imported fish from China? Kind of an elitist attitude, don't ya think?


----------



## d-a (Apr 30, 2011)

asc said:


> Commercial size for GAG Grouper in the GOM is 24", rec size is 22". RED Grouper commercial size is 18" and rec is 20". You need to check your facts before you run your mouth. Y'all are funny, when the best available science is used for your benefit it's all good, but when it's not to your liking it's all smoke and mirrors. I've been active in fishery management policies and politics for the last twenty five years and I tell you one thing, blaming the other user groups ain't going to help you against PEW, EDF and their ilk. Why do you think we went to catch shares for reef fish and ARS? If y'all want to fish you're going to have to figure out some way to account for your catch. d a, a commercial reef fish boat in the GOM don't have a trip limit on grouper anymore they have an IFQ for each permit holder for the year. Once each permit holder reaches their poundage allotment for that year they are done fishing. If they exceed their allotment the excess is subtracted from the next years IFQ. Facts, deal in facts, not CCA drivel.




First off I dont believe any of the CCA's smoke and Mirrors, there in the same bed as PEW and the EDF.

Secondly I agree we all need to stand together against the ENVIRO NAZI'S. There is no doubt that the commercial fishermen have better Lobbying and support from the Environmental's than the recreational fishermen do. 

I may have gotten a few facts askew, but one i didn't and you failed to mention was that calling in your catch. If you call in 400lbs of gutted weight grouper and no one from FWC meets you at the dock with your true weight of 500lbs gutted then you just kept an extra 100lbs free on your permit and allowable allotment. All the commercial guys i know purposely call in a lesser weight because of this fact and in turn are taking more than there allotment.

d-a


----------



## Parker Phoenix (Apr 30, 2011)

asc said:


> Why should the non-fishing public have to eat imported fish from China? Kind of an elitist attitude, don't ya think?



Nothing elitest about it. All you have to do is look at history. It wasn't the commercial hunter who brought back deer and turkey, it was the recreational hunter. The commercial hunter did the buffalo a lot of good too. History shows those who really care are guys like us, Joe Weekender, who have a passion and respect for our prey. While the commercial interest is just the buck. Not saying you don't love the lifestyle, but if you had your way you folks would rape our oceans for profit. I know commercial fishermen, I like most of them, most like me. However when it comes to his subject I am tired of the commercial industry and their high paid lobbyist purchasing back door means of acquiring greater allotments of the peoples resources.


----------



## asc (Apr 30, 2011)

d-a said:


> First off I dont believe any of the CCA's smoke and Mirrors, there in the same bed as PEW and the EDF.
> 
> Secondly I agree we all need to stand together against the ENVIRO NAZI'S. There is no doubt that the commercial fishermen have better Lobbying and support from the Environmental's than the recreational fishermen do.
> 
> ...


The TRUE weights are in the trip tickets. No commercial fisherman in Fl. calls their weight in before unloading.. All fish species and weights along with area fished, depth fished, and days at sea are recorded on trip tickets which is sent to NOAA and FMRI.. Part of this information is backed up by the data on the VMS. Captain must also fill out a discard report along with an economic impact report. All harvested poundage is counted against an individual's IFQ's. So where can I commercial fish and call in or sell my catch without a trip ticket? and if you know it's a resource violation why have'nt you acted upon it? I would! I have no use for a poacher, recreational or commercial.


----------



## asc (Apr 30, 2011)

Parker Phoenix said:


> Nothing elitest about it. All you have to do is look at history. It wasn't the commercial hunter who brought back deer and turkey, it was the recreational hunter. The commercial hunter did the buffalo a lot of good too. History shows those who really care are guys like us, Joe Weekender, who have a passion and respect for our prey. While the commercial interest is just the buck. Not saying you don't love the lifestyle, but if you had your way you folks would rape our oceans for profit. I know commercial fishermen, I like most of them, most like me. However when it comes to his subject I am tired of the commercial industry and their high paid lobbyist purchasing back door means of acquiring greater allotments of the peoples resources.


It's not just the buck though it is a business. I'll bet y'all's lobbyist are paid more than ours..(a least in Fl.) All you got to do is account for your catch(not talking catch shares) just give the bean counters some idea(beyond dockside and phone surveys) of what the rec impact really is. If it's as low as y'all imply you should see increased bag limits and seasons. If your take is higher than estimated then you know it ain't good. Can't have good management without good science... Scared?


----------



## Parker Phoenix (May 1, 2011)

Scared? No, just tired of being governed. I fish for fun, not for profit. What your hope is to make us jump through hoops so we get discouraged and stop fishing, which means a greater allocation for the commercial sector.


----------



## MudDucker (May 2, 2011)

It has been proven time and time again that it is the commercial fishing methods and catch that makes the biggest hit on the fish populations.  Commercial guys have NO MORE rights to the fish than recreational guys and the recreational guys bring way more money to the table for the economy.


----------



## Georgiagator (May 3, 2011)

looks like i will have to trade in all my salt water gear for a cane pole and some bream hooks


----------



## Bryannecker (May 3, 2011)

All that has been said has some basis in fact and may apply in certain situations.  But have you, my fellow fishermen, ever considered that all of this angst may be not in the interest of either faction?  "Divide and conquer" is the montra of those who are not our friends.  They are using it to accomplish their goal of no fishing at all in this great land.  With that, too, is a sub-faction know as for hire fishermen or charter captains who are lumped with recreational fishermen in data gathering.  To my way of thinking they are more akin to commercial than recreational fishermen, since they derive a living from that endeavor just as commercial fishermen do.  But, in the final analysis, who cares!  We are all in this together to save our heritage as American fishermen of every kind.  Once, long ago, I was a charter captain myself, so I know both sides of the coin.  Now, I am a recreational fisherman, but still an American whose bloody veins are filled with saltwater!

We must unite to defeat the common foe.  That is anyone who is opposed to our God given right to fish for the sport, the living,  and the overall enjoyment of exercising that right.  Unite and face the foe in all that we do and we will prevail.  Otherwise, we will fail.

Capt. Jimmy Newman


----------



## Parker Phoenix (May 3, 2011)

I used to think that way, still do to a very limited extent. I just see how they are playing up to the FMC's and NOAA to achieve their means, and throw us under the bus because we do not want to put tracking devices on our boats and buy catch shares from them. It's hard to ally when there is no trust.


----------



## Georgiagator (May 4, 2011)

so far looks like this weekend would be a good weekend to go if it wasn;t the opmist club turnm. and mothers day   there will be a couple hundred boats trying to put in


----------



## Parker Phoenix (May 4, 2011)

I'm going.


----------



## captbrian (May 4, 2011)

i'm going saturday.  still room for a few more willing to split the cost on a 28ft contender.


----------



## Georgiagator (May 5, 2011)

yep got the boat out of the shop today so looks like I gonna go too parker gonna be on channel 16 give me a hollar


----------



## Rock-hard (May 27, 2011)

Just fish like I do. I don't buy licenses anymore. I don't observe the illegallly implemented laws of NMFS. I am not contributing one dime to any more restrictions on my right to fish. I fish to eat, not for fun. I am going out tomorrow too, and I will keep every red snapper and big fat black bass I catch. I won't be buying a state license where I am headed to either. I refuse to.  They use our license money against us.


----------



## grouperdawg (May 27, 2011)

*Fishing*

yep.....it's the monkey boats that have depleted the grouper stocks,  probably swordfish too.  Look at how bad the inshore fishing got after the net ban.


----------



## asc (Jun 2, 2011)

grouperdawg said:


> yep.....it's the monkey boats that have depleted the grouper stocks,  probably swordfish too.  Look at how bad the inshore fishing got after the net ban.


Looks like a high-liner moment too me  even if it is on a foreign flagged vessel.


----------

