# Interracial Marriage



## ambush80 (Apr 16, 2016)

Does any one know someone who is against interracial marriage based on religious doctrine?

My friend and all his friends that I have met in Forrest Mississippi are again' in yet they accept me and my wife.  I think the animosity is mostly geared towards blacks and whites.

I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread this still is.


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## ambush80 (Apr 16, 2016)

maybe an anonymous poll.....


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## fireman32 (Apr 16, 2016)

I know some, I'm pretty sure the Bible says nothing of interracial marriage.  Only believer, non-believer.


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## EverGreen1231 (Apr 16, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> Does any one know someone who is against interracial marriage based on religious doctrine?
> 
> My friend and all his friends that I have met in Forrest Mississippi are again' in yet they accept me and my wife.  I think the animosity is mostly geared towards blacks and whites.
> 
> I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread this still is.



I know people who are. I am not. 

It's sort-of like people being scripturally against drinking or seeming "sin blind" to certain things like homosexuality yet conveniently over-looking something like lying or cheating.


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## NE GA Pappy (Apr 16, 2016)

you can read the Bible front to back and  back to front and won't find anything against inter-racial marriage.  The closest you will find is being unequally yoked, and some try to twist that into a racial meaning, but it is talking about believers/unbelievers.

Some are still against it, though, and I can kind of understand why. With all the social pressures and racial overtones, it is hard on any children born to that couple. Also, the cultural differences can be a real issue for forming a life long relationship with someone.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 16, 2016)

I wonder how or why interracial marriages  were thought to be wrong even within the 70's era? Then we also had a different view of equality for women. There is more in the Bible on God being over man and man being over woman.
I heard it put that God didn't make the Bluebird to go with the Redbird. Maybe it's not natural.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 16, 2016)

One could say Republicans shouldn't marry or mix with Democrats. Most Blacks are Democrats. Down in the Political Forum, Democrats aren't Christians.
I'm just showing a path of justification one could use if needing one.


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## ambush80 (Apr 16, 2016)

Artfuldodger said:


> One could say Republicans shouldn't marry or mix with Democrats. Most Blacks are Democrats. Down in the Political Forum, Democrats aren't Christians.
> I'm just showing a path of justification one could use if needing one.



Excellent points.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Apr 16, 2016)

Nope, not an angle I have ever heard.


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## Artfuldodger (Apr 18, 2016)

Should inter-faith marriages be band in the US?


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## JB0704 (Apr 18, 2016)

ambush80 said:


> My friend and all his friends that I have met in Forrest Mississippi are again' in yet they accept me and my wife.  I think the animosity is mostly geared towards blacks and whites.



Ambush, did I miss you discussing something? And yes, it is mostly geared towards black n white.

There is an inter-racial marriage in the Bible discussed in the Song of Solomon.  The girl was black, and the assumption is that the dude was a Jew.


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## ambush80 (Apr 19, 2016)

JB0704 said:


> Ambush, did I miss you discussing something? And yes, it is mostly geared towards black n white.
> 
> There is an inter-racial marriage in the Bible discussed in the Song of Solomon.  The girl was black, and the assumption is that the dude was a Jew.



You didn't miss anything.  It's all right here.


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## Israel (Apr 23, 2016)

Someone must have mentioned this somewhere...right? I know I'm always late...even to parties.
Moses and his wife, the Cushite woman. 
And who had what to say about it...and then...who had the final word about it.


OOps, just went through other thread...seems Griz had a post about it.


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## obligated (Apr 23, 2016)

I dont.Im white married to a cuban girl.Only thing Ive seen in the bible about marriage was with non believers.So as long as my other wives or concubines are believers Im ok?


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## LittleDrummerBoy (Apr 24, 2016)

I've met a couple of people on the internet who espoused this view, but I've never known Christians in "real life" who were willing to openly advocate against interracial marriage or claim it is evil.


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## Pawcatch (Aug 20, 2018)

The southern Baptist church has been hypocrites on this issue. For years they allowed Asian white marriage, but black and white was a big deal. Hipocrites!


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## ky55 (Aug 20, 2018)

Pawcatch said:


> The southern Baptist church has been hypocrites on this issue. For years they allowed Asian white marriage, but black and white was a big deal. Hipocrites!



The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845 to support slavery. They supported slavery, segregation, and racism throughout their history until they decided to go on record with a formal “apology” way back in 1995-after 150 years:

http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/899/...nniversary-of-the-southern-baptist-convention

*Resolution On Racial Reconciliation On The 150th Anniversary Of The Southern Baptist Convention*
*Atlanta, Georgia - 1995*

WHEREAS, Our relationship to African-Americans has been hindered from the beginning by the role that slavery played in the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; and

WHEREAS, In later years Southern Baptists failed, in many cases, to support, and in some cases opposed, legitimate initiatives to secure the civil rights of African-Americans; and

WHEREAS, Racism has led to discrimination, oppression, injustice, and violence, both in the Civil War and throughout the history of our nation; and

WHEREAS, Racism has divided the body of Christ and Southern Baptists in particular, and separated us from our African-American brothers and sisters; and

WHEREAS, Many of our congregations have intentionally and/or unintentionally excluded African-Americans from worship, membership, and leadership; and

WHEREAS, Racism profoundly distorts our understanding of Christian morality, leading some Southern Baptists to believe that racial prejudice and discrimination are compatible with the Gospel; and


*




*​


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## Spotlite (Aug 20, 2018)

I am sure some would use scripture. It is often abused.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 25, 2018)

I have 2 daughters who are teens but not old enough to date.  Both have showed mild interest in black boys and questioned me on it.  I get the impression that it’s the “cool” thing to do for white girls these days to date a black boy.
I tell them that if it was theoretically possible for them to date before they either turn 26 or get their masters degree, whichever comes last,  that I don’t care what color the guy is 
As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.

That being said I discourage it because of the huge cultural
divide.  imho


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 25, 2018)

It does appear that more white females marry black men than white men marrying black women. I'm not sure why that is.

I've also noticed that these mixed families become more associated with Black culture than the other way around. In other words one perhaps has to become Black in culture to fit in with the Black in-laws, maybe?

Even their kids grow up associated as being Black more than being white. Yet these kids themselves date and marry Black and Whites when they grow up.

Maybe this is something that will eventually work it's way out of this cultural thing. I'm not saying it's good or bad, just an observation of mine.


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## dixiecutter (Aug 25, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> My friend and all his friends that I have met in Forrest Mississippi are again' in yet they accept me and my wife.  I think the animosity is mostly geared towards blacks and whites.



You have said a mouthful right here. We have a tendency to be disbelieving or hatefulof a ton of lives and lifestyles, but give a free pass to ourselves or our inner circle.

I don't care much for blacks. But I love the ones I know.

I don't care much for gays, But it's all good for the ones I know.

Can't stand drugheads. I'll do anything in the world for the ones I know (aside from enabling).

It goes on, and on, and on.


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## dixiecutter (Aug 25, 2018)

^Wasn't meant to equate Blacks and gays with drugheads btw.


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## ky55 (Aug 25, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I tell them that if it was theoretically possible for them to date before they either turn 26 or get their masters degree, whichever comes last,  that I don’t care what color the guy is
> As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.



So are saying it is more acceptable to be a bigot than a racist?

*Definition of bigot*
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 25, 2018)

Not much these days. A lot of the older members of my family would have turned wrong-side out if one of us had married a black person, though. The funny thing is, they wouldn't blink an eye over a white guy marrying an Asian woman, and some of them were themselves married to Cherokee Indians from the nearby reservation.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I have 2 daughters who are teens but not old enough to date.  Both have showed mild interest in black boys and questioned me on it.  I get the impression that it’s the “cool” thing to do for white girls these days to date a black boy.
> I tell them that if it was theoretically possible for them to date before they either turn 26 or get their masters degree, whichever comes last,  that I don’t care what color the guy is
> As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.
> 
> ...


No dating before 26 or a Masters?
I predict frustrating days ahead for you in the near future


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

dixiecutter said:


> You have said a mouthful right here. We have a tendency to be disbelieving or hatefulof a ton of lives and lifestyles, but give a free pass to ourselves or our inner circle.
> 
> I don't care much for blacks. But I love the ones I know.
> 
> ...


Its an interesting dichotomy.
The fact that you are all good or love the ones you know makes it plain as day that's its the individual person that matters yet we cant help lumping the ones we don't know into "groups" that we are indoctrinated not to like.
Each generation is chipping away at it though.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Its an interesting dichotomy.
> The fact that you are all good or love the ones you know makes it plain as day that's its the individual person that matters yet we cant help lumping the ones we don't know into "groups" that we are indoctrinated not to like.
> Each generation is chipping away at it though.


Seriously Walter? Contrary to your belief not everyone was indoctrinated. I think you need to see a therapist about what happened to you as a child. If you are a wise man you take each relationship Independently for what it is not what other say it is or should be.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

BTW I have an Aunt that is married to a black man I have an Uncle that is married to a black women. My sister married a Hispanic. I could care less. Its your life and it is short so whatever make you happy. I could really care less what others think.


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## Dirtroad Johnson (Aug 25, 2018)

I don't like to see black & white mixed couples but I ain't gonna loose no sleep over it, I wouldn't do it.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> Seriously Walter? Contrary to your belief not everyone was indoctrinated. I think you need to see a therapist about what happened to you as a child. If you are a wise man you take each relationship Independently for what it is not what other say it is or should be.


I dont think you fully understand what "indoctrination" is.
It doesn't mean you have to be sat down and someone drilling into your head to not like this or that.
Interracial marriages, particularly black/white is still not accepted by most of society. You are indoctrinated by that. Its whats around you. Until very recently when you turn on the tv you only saw white/white or black/black couples. You are indoctrinated by that. Lots and lots of examples where you are being indoctrinated and don't even know it.
Indoctrination is not a bad word or an insult. Its just reality.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> I dont think you fully understand what "indoctrination" is.
> It doesn't mean you have to be sat down and someone drilling into your head to not like this or that.
> Interracial marriages, particularly black/white is still not accepted by most of society. You are indoctrinated by that. Its whats around you. Until very recently when you turn on the tv you only saw white/white or black/black couples. You are indoctrinated by that. Lots and lots of examples where you are being indoctrinated and don't even know it.
> Indoctrination is not a bad word or an insult. Its just reality.


For some perhaps. But for free thinkers they could care less what someone said on tv. Or what society thinks. I strongly disagree. Only weak minded people can be indoctrinated. You seem to be hung up on this evaluation of people that have views different from yours?


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

I may be thinking outside of the box here but what if people are capable of coming up with their own conclusions based on life experiences?


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> For some perhaps. But for free thinkers they could care less what someone said on tv. Or what society thinks. I strongly disagree. Only weak minded people can be indoctrinated. You seem to be hung up on this evaluation of people that have views different from yours?


Nonsense.
You are a hunter. Ever have a conversation with a buddy about the wacko PETA people and maybe your kids heard you? That plants the seed in their mind to be against PETA people.
I grew up in a Sicilian family. As a kid I would listen in on the adult conversations. Old Sicilian folks refer to black folks as mulignans. That's Sicilian for eggplant. Get the connection? Nobody ever sat me down and said be against black folks. But I knew they were different from me and not in a positive way.
Kids aren't free thinkers. They pick up on whats around them and go with it.
If you think only weak minded people can be indoctrinated you most definitely don't understand indoctrination.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Nonsense.
> You are a hunter. Ever have a conversation with a buddy about the wacko PETA people and maybe your kids heard you? That plants the seed in their mind to be against PETA people.
> I grew up in a Sicilian family. As a kid I would listen in on the adult conversations. Old Sicilian folks refer to black folks as mulignans. That's Sicilian for eggplant. Get the connection? Nobody ever sat me down and said be against black folks. But I knew they were different from me and not in a positive way.
> Kids aren't free thinkers. They pick up on whats around them and go with it.
> If you think only weak minded people can be indoctrinated you most definitely don't understand indoctrination.


Walter I think your wrong on Your assessment. Sure there are some that learn from what others tell them probably around 50%. But there are just as many that find out for themselves. Like I said only weak minded people can be indoctrinated. I have a coworker that use to be a member of Peta. I now share hog sausage with him.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> I may be thinking outside of the box here but what if people are capable of coming up with their own conclusions based on life experiences?


Of course they can.
Key words - life experiences.
Most people are indoctrinated in way or another on a variety of subjects long before they have any real life experiences.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> Walter I think your wrong on Your assessment. Sure there are some that learn from what others tell them probably around 50%. But there are just as many that find out for themselves. Like I said only weak minded people can be indoctrinated. I have a coworker that use to be a member of Peta. I now share hog sausage with him.


Don't take my word for it. There are volumes of information on the subject.
Here's a simple one -
Lots of guys swear by Ford. Never owned a Chevy.
Why do they swear by Ford then?
Daddy drove one.
That's a form of indoctrination.
You think indoctrination is a bad word and it only applies to weak people.
You don't actually know what it means.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Of course they can.
> Key words - life experiences.
> Most people are indoctrinated in way or another on a variety of subjects long before they have any real life experiences.


I get it brother walt. You were brow beat with this as a child and it sounds like you never got over it. To each their own.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> I get it brother walt. You were brow beat with this as a child and it sounds like you never got over it. To each their own.


That's really ignorant my friend.
You don't know crap about my childhood and you don't know crap about indoctrination.
Im out on this subject as Im quickly losing my ability to stay patient with you.


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 25, 2018)

People learn from observing others too.  They don't have to personally experience everything to form an opinion about a subject.  I like a Dodge truck even though my Dad never owned one.  He is a Chevy man.  I own 5 trucks right now, and none of them are Chevys.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> That's really ignorant my friend.
> You don't know crap about my childhood and you don't know crap about indoctrination.
> Im out on this subject as Im quickly losing my ability to stay patient with you.


Guess I don't know carp. Have a nice indoctrinated life. You sound so bitter. Hate it for you. Maybe find a therapist.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> People learn from observing others too.  They don't have to personally experience everything to form an opinion about a subject.  I like a Dodge truck even though my Dad never owned one.  He is a Chevy man.  I own 5 trucks right now, and none of them are Chevys.


Sure. And when they find it to be truthful they believe it.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 25, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> People learn from observing others too.  They don't have to personally experience everything to form an opinion about a subject.  I like a Dodge truck even though my Dad never owned one.  He is a Chevy man.  I own 5 trucks right now, and none of them are Chevys.


Of course people can come to form their own opinions. They learn new information. They have different experiences. They change their mind about things.
Heres another simple example. Cowboy and indian movies. The vast majority were rooting for the cowboys. Why? It was natural to think the Indians were the bad guys.
Why was it natural to think that?


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Of course people can come to form their own opinions. They learn new information. They have different experiences. They change their mind about things.
> Heres another simple example. Cowboy and indian movies. The vast majority were rooting for the cowboys. Why? It was natural to think the Indians were the bad guys.
> Why was it natural to think that?


I always wanted to be the Indian.


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## ky55 (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> I always wanted to be the Indian.



Yep, you were indoctrinated to believe the Indians were victims.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Yep, you were indoctrinated to believe the Indians were victims.


Naw I just like  shootin bows


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 25, 2018)

I think indoctrination does play an important part in a child's development. When a child hears that a certain race of people aren't even human for most of his childhood years it kinda affects how he feels about that race as well. 
Add that to how everyone at your church and school feels about that race, your friends, relatives, preacher, teachers, and neighbors and it kinda affects the way you grow up too. 

It takes  a lot for one to cast all that aside and form an opinion different from that. Some of us do but I'd say most don't. I don't believe there are as many free thinkers as those that stick with their indoctrination.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 25, 2018)

When you are indoctrinated that a certain race stinks because they are of that race. Not because of lack of hygiene, but because of race. That a certain race doesn't have hair but wool. That they are not even human. Not animals but something in-between.

That this race of people live the way they do because of their race, not poverty or their own indoctrination.

If you are told his on a daily basis, how sorry and a waste this race is because of their race. A sub-human group of individuals that should not exist. A race that will never equal the other races because of race and race alone.

You can bet that the children of someone like this will have a hard time becoming a free thinker and overcoming this indoctrination.
Maybe one or two out of four might. Even two would be a plus.


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## red neck richie (Aug 25, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think indoctrination does play an important part in a child's development. When a child hears that a certain race of people aren't even human for most of his childhood years it kinda affects how he feels about that race as well.
> Add that to how everyone at your church and school feels about that race, your friends, relatives, preacher, teachers, and neighbors and it kinda affects the way you grow up too.
> 
> It takes  a lot for one to cast all that aside and form an opinion different from that. Some of us do but I'd say most don't. I don't believe there are as many free thinkers as those that stick with their indoctrination.


I don't know what the percentages are as far as those that think for themselves vs let others think for them. I'm not saying it dosent happen but I wouldn't think the numbers are very high.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 25, 2018)

red neck richie said:


> I don't know what the percentages are as far as those that think for themselves vs let others think for them. I'm not saying it dosent happen but I wouldn't think the numbers are very high.



The thing is it's children we are talking about concerning things like this. This is how these things get passed on from generation to generation.
It's way deeper than one thinking for himself when he becomes an adult.
This is why many adults feel the way they do about certain things when they are grown. It gets burnt into your brain.

I'm not talking about a Dad that just prefers Fords but a Dad that won't allow his boys to park anything but a Ford in his driveway.

Was reading about a woman whose Dad always made it a point that real men didn't drink out of a straw. When she started dating she would not go out with a guy again if he drunk his drink with a straw.
This is funny to me as I don't use a straw so I joke with my daughter's about it.
But with this lady it's serious but stupid. Yet she can't get that thought or image from her indoctrination out of her head.

Even for me, and I do consider myself a free thinker, it takes a lot for me to get my indoctrination of the Black race out of my head.
I have to go about it like a recovering addiction addict.

Look at our own religious indoctrination. Trinitarian for me but I don't follow that belief any longer. You don't think that was an easy indoctrination to overcome. I really didn't even want to overcome it.

Even years later I still feel Trinitarian. I still feel thoughts of my childhood indoctrination about the Black race creeping back in. Especially when around folks from my childhood who still believe in the way we were indoctrinated.

Folks ain't as free as they want to be from indoctrination. Percentages that can overcome? We'll never know.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 26, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> The thing is it's children we are talking about concerning things like this. This is how these things get passed on from generation to generation.
> It's way deeper than one thinking for himself when he becomes an adult.
> This is why many adults feel the way they do about certain things when they are grown. It gets burnt into your brain.
> 
> ...





> It's way deeper than one thinking for himself when he becomes an adult.
> This is why many adults feel the way they do about certain things when they are grown. It gets burnt into your brain.


Bingo!


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## hummerpoo (Aug 26, 2018)

Purely Anecdotal.

I never met a black person until I entered high school.  Although I surely did, I don't recall having seen a black person until then.

Although I recognize societal probabilities when initially meeting someone, I can not recall having had any thought about a person of any race that was not drawn from my experience with that individual.

My father was very down on the black race.  Many would have considered him a racist bigot, although it was not a daily or weekly topic of conversation.

I learned many years after both my father and grandfather had died that, when his children were young, my grandfather had reached out to the only black family in the rural neighborhood where they lived (it was about ten miles to the nearest flush toilet; mid to late 1930's).  I grew up in the same community, (there were flush toilets in the new school house that I entered as a five year old).

Although I am aware of a few more details, attributing any causal relationship would be purely speculative.

My conclusion from this anecdote; individual indoctrination, while a real factor, is highly overrated.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 26, 2018)

hummerpoo said:


> Purely Anecdotal.
> 
> I never met a black person until I entered high school.  Although I surely did, I don't recall having seen a black person until then.
> 
> ...



I can see why you don't relate your own childhood race relations to a terrible indoctrination experience. You didn't live among a community with many Blacks or even know any.
You didn't heat it on a daily or weekly basis from your peers, parents, teachers, relatives, and preachers on a personal basis.

I guess your Dad didn't say "look over there, that's the incubator" when driving by a predominantly Black government housing project.

Now granted many people feel about a race based on the race's actions, morals, etc. because that race doesn't try to make changes.
Welfare would be a good example. It's based on indoctrination and not race.
But to feel this race lives the way they do because of their race so they can't change is a bit different. That's the way I was indoctrinated. That there were inferior races to my own based just on their race. Not the cultural differences but the race itself.

You see I did hear this on a daily and weekly basis. That this race could not get any better based on race. Not only from my parents but relatives, teacher, friends, and preachers.

I guess one has to live it to understand indoctrination's impact. It would also depend on the severity and frequency of the indoctrination.

Perhaps you could use your religious indoctrination as an example?
It does appear that kids of Elected Christians are prone to be elected themselves.

Perhaps one's political party. Could your indoctrination have been influenced by your parents?

Usually always one's religion and political beliefs are part of their childhood indoctrination. Those two things are usually lived on a daily and weekly basis.

If you are told by your parents that blue eyed people are smarter than brown eyed people, it will eventually affect your outlook on your learning abilities.
If told you can't do something because you are left handed or that it's your Moms's fault you are left handed. That left handedness was a sign of not being taught to be right handed. Then that could effect how hard you even try to accomplish certain tasks. You figure you can't do it because you are left handed, not that it's because you are using a tool designed for a right handed person.

I would have to disagree. I feel indoctrination is highly underrated in it's affects on children and adults.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 26, 2018)

My Dad never watched sports or racing on TV. So I feel that aspect of my childhood made me grow up to not watch sports and racing on TV.

My Dad and my brothers were active in activities ourselves instead of watching these activities on TV. Dad took us hunting, fishing, camping, water skiing, roller skating, swimming, etc. He also actively participated in whatever we, as kids would do. He didn't just take us skating, he skated as well. He didn't just take us white water rafting, he rafted as well.
So in that respect I've always participated in these same activities with my kids even now that they are grown. I don't just take them to a water park, I go down the slides myself. I did finally give up skimming though. I fell and hurt my wrist pretty bad.

The point being, we are influenced by our parents in a positive and negative way. You have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully the
good aspects outweigh one or two bad ones even if they were really bad.
Hopefully one can overcome these negative aspects of their childhood indoctrination. Live and learn. Hopefully we all learn that our parents were wrong about certain things.

We meet Blacks or Yankees and realize they have basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter. That they aren't that different from White Southerners. That we all have cultural differences. To learn that they act the way they do by their indoctrination, not race or location.

That some people actually like Mopars even.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> So are saying it is more acceptable to be a bigot than a racist?
> 
> *Definition of bigot*
> : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;
> ...



So wanting my daughters to marry someone who is devoted to Christ is your definition of a bigot?  Is that REALLLLLLLLY what you are implying?


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> No dating before 26 or a Masters?



Yip.  It's half way in jest,.....maybe,  but I constantly stress to them the importance of being self-sufficient and not having to rely on a man.


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## Cmp1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> My Dad never watched sports or racing on TV. So I feel that aspect of my childhood made me grow up to not watch sports and racing on TV.
> 
> My Dad and my brothers were active in activities ourselves instead of watching these activities on TV. Dad took us hunting, fishing, camping, water skiing, roller skating, swimming, etc. He also actively participated in whatever we, as kids would do. He didn't just take us skating, he skated as well. He didn't just take us white water rafting, he rafted as well.
> So in that respect I've always participated in these same activities with my kids even now that they are grown. I don't just take them to a water park, I go down the slides myself. I did finally give up skimming though. I fell and hurt my wrist pretty bad.
> ...



Love Mopar trucks,,,,


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## Hillbilly stalker (Aug 27, 2018)

WOW ! Indoctrination ,  23 times in 5 posts, must be word for the day. My head hurts now. 

I'd rather have a sister in a cathouse than a dodge in my front yard tho (just kidding ya)


----------



## ambush80 (Aug 27, 2018)

New born children are a sponge.  They are far less equipped than other animals with basic survival skills.  That was an evolutionary trade off for having a brain designed to think.  It's a parent's right, privilege, and responsibility to teach them how to survive. For humans, survival means having information and children absorb information readily.  Infants get information from visual clues like facial expressions that can tell them that something is "yucky" and to be avoided.  You don't like the word "indoctrinated"?  Use the word "programmed" instead then.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> So wanting my daughters to marry someone who is devoted to Christ is your definition of a bigot?  Is that REALLLLLLLLY what you are implying?



Read the definition and decide for yourself if it fits the situation.
If your daughters married practicing Muslims and converted to Islam would you respect their choices and their new religion?

If the answer is anything other than an unconditional yes, go back and read the definition again.

And it’s Webster’s definition-not mine.


----------



## Cmp1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> WOW ! Indoctrination ,  23 times in 5 posts, must be word for the day. My head hurts now.
> 
> I'd rather have a sister in a cathouse than a dodge in my front yard tho (just kidding ya)


Nothing but a Dodge,Chevys and Fords are rust buckets,,,,


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Read the definition and decide for yourself if it fits the situation.
> If your daughters married practicing Muslims and converted to Islam would you respect their choices and their new religion?
> 
> If the answer is anything other than an unconditional yes, go back and read the definition again.
> ...


So if Muslims refuse to marry outside their belief.....then they are in the same bucket too ? And Catholics and Jewish and so on and so on. The line gets kinda blurry don't it ? 

I ain't never seen a dodge that had enuff power to pull a greasy string out of a cats butt. Didn't they leave NASCAR ?


----------



## Cmp1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> So if Muslims refuse to marry outside their belief.....then they are in the same bucket too ? And Catholics and Jewish and so on and so on. The line gets kinda blurry don't it ?
> 
> I ain't never seen a dodge that had enuff power to pull a greasy string out of a cats butt. Didn't they leave NASCAR ?


Left NASCAR because they restricted all the power they produced,see Demon,,,,I’ll put a hemi up against a Vortex or a Ford any day,,,,


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Yip.  It's half way in jest,.....maybe,  but I constantly stress to them the importance of being self-sufficient and not having to rely on a man.


Definitely a good/smart thing.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> So if Muslims refuse to marry outside their belief.....then they are in the same bucket too ? And Catholics and Jewish and so on and so on. The line gets kinda blurry don't it ?
> 
> I ain't never seen a dodge that had enuff power to pull a greasy string out of a cats butt. Didn't they leave NASCAR ?


Now theres a visual I could have done without


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> So if Muslims refuse to marry outside their belief.....then they are in the same bucket too ? And Catholics and Jewish and so on and so on. The line gets kinda blurry don't it ?



From what little I know about other religions, some have very specific rules and guidelines about marrying outside the faith. If you’re in the system you know the rules up front. In that case  I guess any bigotry would be more on the system than the participants.

As far as the religions without specific guidelines, I guess the participants get to be bigots at their own discretion.


----------



## lagrangedave (Aug 27, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> So if Muslims refuse to marry outside their belief.....then they are in the same bucket too ? And Catholics and Jewish and so on and so on. The line gets kinda blurry don't it ?
> 
> I ain't never seen a dodge that had enuff power to pull a greasy string out of a cats butt. Didn't they leave NASCAR ?


Maybe one of your more affluent friends will let you test drive a Ram and you will see the light.........


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Aug 27, 2018)

It's kinda funny, you can drive by 10 different churches on Sunday morning and see that people prefer to be with their own kind mostly. That's not bigotry, just preference . Calling someone a bigot seems to be that last line of defense anymore tho.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Aug 27, 2018)

lagrangedave said:


> Maybe one of your more affluent friends will let you test drive a Ram and you will see the light.........


It would have to be bad dark outside and he would have to have some dark tinted windows. Ha ! Ha ! I ain't pushed one in along time, might be good exercise, that's saying he can get it started and all. Lol


----------



## NCHillbilly (Aug 27, 2018)

lagrangedave said:


> Maybe one of your more affluent friends will let you test drive a Ram and you will see the light.........


One of my friends bought a Ram. He spends a lot of money on it keeping that piece of junk running. It left him walking the first time at <20k miles.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker (Aug 27, 2018)

lagrangedave said:


> Maybe one of your more affluent friends will let you test drive a Ram and you will see the light.........


Took your advise, my buddy said when he gets his goat out of the transmission shop Friday, I can drive it if I drop him off. My other buddy "Goony bird" drives a roll back wrecker, says if wasn't for them dodges, he would be picking up beer cans for a living.  Said I ort to be nice to yall.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Read the definition and decide for yourself if it fits the situation.
> If your daughters married practicing Muslims and converted to Islam would you respect their choices and their new religion?
> 
> If the answer is anything other than an unconditional yes, go back and read the definition again.
> ...



If your daughter married a Jim Jones following idjit, would you respect her choice and her new religion?  

I didn't think so.


----------



## JustUs4All (Aug 27, 2018)

Somebody gotta tell me what Dodge trucks have to do with interracial marriage.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> If your daughter married a Jim Jones following idjit, would you respect her choice and her new religion?
> 
> I didn't think so.



I think you should ask SFD, since Jim Jones had “a solid walk with Christ”.


----------



## red neck richie (Aug 27, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> Somebody gotta tell me what Dodge trucks have to do with interracial marriage.


Some people believe everything you believe was Indoctrinated. Including race. Even down to the type of vehicle you find to be superior.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I think you should ask SFD, since Jim Jones had “a solid walk with Christ”.



Nah, I won't ask him, mainly because I totally agree with his assessment of the situation.  I wouldn't care if my daughter married a green man, if he loved her, treated her right and did his best to follow Jesus and his teaching.    As a matter of fact, I would prefer she married a minority that was a devout Christian, rather than a 'good ole boy' white man that didn't have an intense relationship with God.

Now.... why don't you answer the question?


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> Somebody gotta tell me what Dodge trucks have to do with interracial marriage.


 
I think the discussion was about how much your indoctrination by your parents influenced why one would like a Dodge over a Ford. How much it influence our attitudes and beliefs about everything really. God, fishin', trucks, Blacks, women, political party, favorite ball team, etc. 
How easy or hard is it to overcome something you have been taught your whole childhood and as an early adult. 
To eventually overcome that way of thinking and think for yourself.
Some folks do and some don't.

I'd hate to tell my Dad this but I rarely carry a pocket knife anymore.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Nah, I won't ask him, mainly because I totally agree with his assessment of the situation.  I wouldn't care if my daughter married a green man, if he loved her, treated her right and did his best to follow Jesus and his teaching.    As a matter of fact, I would prefer she married a minority that was a devout Christian, rather than a 'good ole boy' white man that didn't have an intense relationship with God.
> 
> Now.... why don't you answer the question?



I have no reason to answer your question because I didn’t bring my family into the discussion-you did. 

Did you read the definition of bigot?


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

We had this discussion at work one time and a co-worker said he could never forgive his daughter if she married a Black man. The he would put a tombstone it the back yard with her name on it.

Someone asked him how he would feel if she told him she was a lesbian and brought a girlfriend home. He said he wouldn't like it but that he could accept it.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I have no reason to answer your question because I didn’t bring my family into the discussion-you did.
> 
> Did you read the definition of bigot?



I guess my answer then is yes, I'm a bigot.
If you are going to use an extreme religious ideal then yes. Even if I say I'd rather my daughters not marry Black guys or other girls for that matter, if that makes me a bigot then I guess I am. 

What if I'd rather they marry a man that makes $100,000 a year instead of a artist or musician that makes $20,000 a year? Does that mean I'm prejudiced against artist and musicians?

What if I want them to marry a fiscal conservative but social liberal person? 
Perhaps a man who can put a battery in a car  or air in a tire? Would that make me a bigot if they married a man that can't and I didn't like it?


----------



## NCHillbilly (Aug 27, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> I think the discussion was about how much your indoctrination by your parents influenced why one would like a Dodge over a Ford. How much it influence our attitudes and beliefs about everything really. God, fishin', trucks, Blacks, women, political party, favorite ball team, etc.
> How easy or hard is it to overcome something you have been taught your whole childhood and as an early adult.
> To eventually overcome that way of thinking and think for yourself.
> Some folks do and some don't.
> ...


I feel totally nekkid without a pocket knife.


----------



## NCHillbilly (Aug 27, 2018)

I would rather be without britches than a pocketknife.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Nah, I won't ask him, mainly because I totally agree with his assessment of the situation.  I wouldn't care if my daughter married a green man, if he loved her, treated her right and did his best to follow Jesus and his teaching.    As a matter of fact, I would prefer she married a minority that was a devout Christian, rather than a 'good ole boy' white man that didn't have an intense relationship with God.
> 
> Now.... why don't you answer the question?


I can totally understand your position.
But just a comment -
Divorce rates, infidelity rates and every other rates that you can find statistics for are basically identical for Christians vs. non-Christians in the US.
People are people.


----------



## Christian hughey (Aug 27, 2018)

Tigers dont seek cheetahs to mate lol but all seriousness  if you love someone you love em'. You got one chance at life make yourself happy, as long as you listen to the Lord he will point you "straight", he never steered me wrong.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> I can totally understand your position.
> But just a comment -
> Divorce rates, infidelity rates and every other rates that you can find statistics for are basically identical for Christians vs. non-Christians in the US.
> People are people.



maybe so.  but the people I associate with seem to have a better track record.  I can name 20 or 30 couples that I know been married 40 years or longer.  Lots of them only dated the one they are married to, or at most one other person.  

the people you are talking about may be Christain.  I am not here to judge them, but I can tell you they are not or were not following Biblical teaching.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I would rather be without britches than a pocketknife.



If Pappy has his pants on, you can bet there is a knife in one pocket and a pistol in the other


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I have no reason to answer your question because I didn’t bring my family into the discussion-you did.
> 
> Did you read the definition of bigot?



But you did bring in his family into the conversation... What a maroon.

Like you can ask a question and chide someone for not answering, then not answer it yourself.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> maybe so.  but the people I associate with seem to have a better track record.  I can name 20 or 30 couples that I know been married 40 years or longer.  Lots of them only dated the one they are married to, or at most one other person.
> 
> the people you are talking about may be Christain.  I am not here to judge them, but I can tell you they are not or were not following Biblical teaching.


The 'ol "Real" Christians vs. "Fake" Christians argument.
By those standards there aren't but a couple of handfuls of "real" Christians in existence.
A major tenant of Christianity is to repent of your sins for a reason.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I would rather be without britches than a pocketknife.



I could tell him I didn't believe in the Trinity but I didn't have the heart to tell him I don't always carry a pocket knife. I don't always take taters camping and that broke his heart so now I started bringin' taters again.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> But you did bring in his family into the conversation... What a maroon.
> 
> Like you can ask a question and chide someone for not answering, then not answer it yourself.



Hey Pappy, before you call somebody a “maroon”, why don’t you go back and read a little more. 
I didn’t bring his family into the conversation. HE brought his family into the conversation. HE made them a part of the discussion. 
I didn’t bring my family into the conversation so they are not a part of the discussion, until I bring them into the conversation, which I will not do-and I will not allow you to do.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Hey Pappy, before you call somebody a “maroon”, why don’t you go back and read a little more.
> I didn’t bring his family into the conversation. HE brought his family into the conversation. HE made them a part of the discussion.
> I didn’t bring my family into the conversation so they are not a part of the discussion, until I bring them into the conversation, which I will not do-and I will not allow you to do.



how you gonna stop me.  and when you asked the question, yes you brought his family into the discussion...



BTW, you could just answer the question, but then 1) you would have to lie or 2) you would have to admit to be a bit bigoted to....


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> The 'ol "Real" Christians vs. "Fake" Christians argument.
> By those standards there aren't but a couple of handfuls of "real" Christians in existence.
> A major tenant of Christianity is to repent of your sins for a reason.



nope.... I just said they did not or were not following Biblical teaching..

you know.... Thou shalt not commit adultery....  

or maybe you are so confused you think Jesus said that divorce was a good thing.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 27, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> I have 2 daughters who are teens but not old enough to date.  Both have showed mild interest in black boys and questioned me on it.  I get the impression that it’s the “cool” thing to do for white girls these days to date a black boy.
> I tell them that if it was theoretically possible for them to date before they either turn 26 or get their masters degree, whichever comes last,  that I don’t care what color the guy is
> As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.
> 
> ...





NE GA Pappy said:


> how you gonna stop me.  and when you asked the question, yes you brought his family into the discussion...
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you could just answer the question, but then 1) you would have to lie or 2) you would have to admit to be a bit bigoted to....



Post # 19:



SemperFiDawg said:


> I have 2 daughters who are teens but not old enough to date.  Both have showed mild interest in black boys and questioned me on it.  I get the impression that it’s the “cool” thing to do for white girls these days to date a black boy.
> I tell them that if it was theoretically possible for them to date before they either turn 26 or get their masters degree, whichever comes last,  that I don’t care what color the guy is
> As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.
> 
> ...



That’s the best I can do since I can’t draw you a picture. 

Seems like most folks can get past a lot of indoctrination-even something as serious as racism. 
But religious bigotry just hangs on. It seems to be most common in the piety of the “real” believers. 
Just my humble opinion.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Post # 19:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



fify


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> nope.... I just said they did not or were not following Biblical teaching..
> 
> you know.... Thou shalt not commit adultery....
> 
> or maybe you are so confused you think Jesus said that divorce was a good thing.


My point was that its built right into the system that Christians will fail at following Biblical teaching. You don't get "kicked out" for being a fake Christian you repent, are forgiven and continue to be a Christian.
Not sure where you came up with that I think Jesus said divorce was a good thing as I didn't say or it or imply it.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> My point was that its built right into the system that Christians will fail at following Biblical teaching. You don't get "kicked out" for being a fake Christian you repent, are forgiven and continue to be a Christian.
> Not sure where you came up with that I think Jesus said divorce was a good thing as I didn't say or it or imply it.



As a Christian, I'm kinda glad it works that way.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Lets do this Pappy -
Disregard my "fake" Christin stuff as you didn't necessarily  imply that either.
And lets go with people are people including Christians and based on statistics marrying a devout Christian doesn't necessarily equate to some advantage.
Devout Christians sin too/don't always follow Biblical teaching.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> My point was that its built right into the system that Christians will fail at following Biblical teaching. You don't get "kicked out" for being a fake Christian you repent, are forgiven and continue to be a Christian.
> Not sure where you came up with that I think Jesus said divorce was a good thing as I didn't say or it or imply it.



you know, funny thing is some folk believe that repenting of something just means you say you are sorry.  Repenting is a lot more than that.  The word actually means to stop, turn around and go a different direction.  Folks that want to keep fooling around with the neighbors wife haven't repented from fooling around to start with.  

I think it is telling that you would say that Christians can repent, be forgiven and go on being a Christian, when we are the ones that are always accused of being judgmental.  It seems to me if Christians are that judgmental, we wouldn't forgive them or welcome them back in

One thing I do feel you got totally correct in your post.  Christians will fail. We all do.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

Artfuldodger said:


> As a Christian, I'm kinda glad it works that way.


If it did work that way the churches would go broke


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Lets do this Pappy -
> Disregard my "fake" Christin stuff as you didn't necessarily  imply that either.
> And lets go with people are people including Christians and based on statistics marrying a devout Christian doesn't necessarily equate to some advantage.
> Devout Christians sin too/don't always follow Biblical teaching.



Walt, the point I guess I am trying to make is when 2 people are committed to God and each other, the chances are they will stay together longer than the average couple.  Maybe because they feel a higher calling and purpose to life than just being a husband or wife.  I believe that treating my wife well is a calling from God.  If I treat her well, chances are we will be married longer than most couples who start finding fault after a few years and 'fall out of love' or become disenchanted with each other.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> you know, funny thing is some folk believe that repenting of something just means you say you are sorry.  Repenting is a lot more than that.  The word actually means to stop, turn around and go a different direction.  Folks that want to keep fooling around with the neighbors wife haven't repented from fooling around to start with.
> 
> I think it is telling that you would say that Christians can repent, be forgiven and go on being a Christian, when we are the ones that are always accused of being judgmental.  It seems to me if Christians are that judgmental, we wouldn't forgive them or welcome them back in
> 
> One thing I do feel you got totally correct in your post.  Christians will fail. We all do.


Yes I agree with your definition of repenting.
Although I do have to question the whole repenting on your death bed and are forgiven and given a ticket to Heaven thing. No turning around and going in a different direction at that point.


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Walt, the point I guess I am trying to make is when 2 people are committed to God and each other, the chances are they will stay together longer than the average couple.  Maybe because they feel a higher calling and purpose to life than just being a husband or wife.  I believe that treating my wife well is a calling from God.  If I treat her well, chances are we will be married longer than most couples who start finding fault after a few years and 'fall out of love' or become disenchanted with each other.


I think that sounds great and in some cases may be 100% true.
But as far as "chances are" the statistics say the chances are no greater than if 2 Atheists got married.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Walt, the point I guess I am trying to make is when 2 people are committed to God and each other, the chances are they will stay together longer than the average couple.  Maybe because they feel a higher calling and purpose to life than just being a husband or wife.  I believe that treating my wife well is a calling from God.  If I treat her well, chances are we will be married longer than most couples who start finding fault after a few years and 'fall out of love' or become disenchanted with each other.


I think what Walt is showing and I would agree is, why is divorce rate not lower among Christians?
Muslims have a lower divorce rate than Christians. Does one only have to believe in any God?
What is it about Christianity to include repentance that would make the divorce rate any different that the Hindu?

That being said, repentance is coming to the realization that one can't save themselves by stop sinning and thus need someone who has never sinned to take their place. 
That is what repentance truly means that defines what Jesus did on the cross. 
We as humans can never repent and stop sinning. True we may not divorce but we may still have lust in our heart.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Yes I agree with your definition of repenting.
> Although I do have to question the whole repenting on your death bed and are forgiven and given a ticket to Heaven thing. No turning around and going in a different direction at that point.



Interesting topic.  I guess that would have to fall into the intent column, since there was not time to walk it out in life.  I know Christ told the thief ' This day you will be with me in Paradise', and he didn't have time to live it out either.   For sure, the only one I am responsible for is me, and my response to pressures, temptations, and my response to them.  I am willing to let God be the judge over those people.  I don't want the job.


----------



## NE GA Pappy (Aug 27, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> I think that sounds great and in some cases may be 100% true.
> But as far as "chances are" the statistics say the chances are no greater than if 2 Atheists got married.



Yep, and statistics also say that less than 2% of Christians pay tithes too....  No doubt that the Bible teaches that. Old testament and New Testament teaching. Yet only 2% follow that teaching.  

If a guy said he was a hunter, but never went in the woods, never loaded a gun, and never purchased a license, would you consider him a hunter?  If you got a hundred people together and only 2 of them paid for their club membership, would you consider everyone members just because they said they were?


----------



## WaltL1 (Aug 27, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> Interesting topic.  I guess that would have to fall into the intent column, since there was not time to walk it out in life.  I know Christ told the thief ' This day you will be with me in Paradise', and he didn't have time to live it out either.   For sure, the only one I am responsible for is me, and my response to pressures, temptations, and my response to them.  I am willing to let God be the judge over those people.  I don't want the job.


Yes I guess that according to your/Christian beliefs God would have the ability to judge whether the dying persons "intent" was valid or if they were just saying "Oh crap Im about die I better repent".


----------



## Israel (Aug 28, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> Somebody gotta tell me what Dodge trucks have to do with interracial marriage.


Its like tryin' to find the segue that got this here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## JustUs4All (Aug 28, 2018)

But then we started talking about pocket knives.


----------



## Artfuldodger (Aug 28, 2018)

JustUs4All said:


> But then we started talking about pocket knives.



I was indoctrinated a Schrade carrier by my Dad. I was able to overcome and bought a Puma when I was 18.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Read the definition and decide for yourself if it fits the situation.
> If your daughters married practicing Muslims and converted to Islam would you respect their choices and their new religion?
> 
> If the answer is anything other than an unconditional yes, go back and read the definition again.
> ...



No. It doesn't fit the situation.....at all.  But the question still stands.  Is this how you feel?  If you say yes, then how did you come to that conclusion.

I don't want my daughter dating a meth head either.  Am I a bigot, for that also.  If not, what's the difference?


----------



## ky55 (Aug 29, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> No. It doesn't fit the situation.....at all.  But the question still stands.  Is this how you feel?  If you say yes, then how did you come to that conclusion.
> 
> I don't want my daughter dating a meth head either.  Am I a bigot, for that also.  If not, what's the difference?



My comment was in reference to this statement:



SemperFiDawg said:


> I don’t care what color the guy is
> As long as he has a solid walk with Christ.



That comment fits the definition of religious bigotry, in my opinion...
So we disagree.
And it’s just an opinion, not a conclusion.
I will readily admit I am not a religious bigot because I find them ALL to be worthless myths.

If someone tells me they are walking with a guy that’s been dead for 2000 years I’ll suspect they are delusional.
If they say they have a “solid” walk with the dead guy that’ll pretty much confirm they are indeed delusional, because it will let me know they believe they are getting feedback from somewhere.


----------



## JustUs4All (Aug 29, 2018)

Post 110 proves beyond doubt that bigotry is alive and well everywhere.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> And it’s just an opinion, not a conclusion.



Well you're entitled to your opinion I guess.  Not worth debating it with you.  I get the feeling your disdain of the thought of God and all things religious runs too deep to be penetrated by reasonable conversation.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

Hillbilly stalker said:


> It's kinda funny, you can drive by 10 different churches on Sunday morning and see that people prefer to be with their own kind mostly. That's not bigotry, just preference .  Calling someone a bigot seems to be that last line of defense anymore tho.



It is.  It's used today as a catch-all phrase when reasonable thought fails to justify some illogical or false proposition.  Just throw a derogatory label on it and walk away.
The great thing about the bigotry label is you can use it to justify any position.  
People against pedophilia.  Just bigots.
People against socialism.  Bigots
People against legalized drugs.  Bigots.
Christians against their daughters marrying non-Christians.  Bigots
Atheist against religion.  Bigots.
Mothers against drunk drivers.  Bigots.
etc.
etc.


----------



## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I think you should ask SFD, since Jim Jones had “a solid walk with Christ”.



Like I said above.  Too much disdain for reasonable conversation.


----------



## ky55 (Aug 29, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Well you're entitled to your opinion I guess.  Not worth debating it with you.  I get the feeling your disdain of the thought of God and all things religious runs too deep to be penetrated by reasonable conversation.



Well, you are wrong about that. 
You can call it disdain, but I call it doubt. 
I’m ready and willing to accept proof of any god, any time, that you or anybody can provide. 
I don’t expect you to ever admit the possibility that gods don’t exist-especially yours-so I agree that it isn’t worth debating.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I feel totally nekkid without a pocket knife.



Another visual we could live without.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 29, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> Another visual we could live without.


People would pay good money. I'm man-purty.


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## WaltL1 (Aug 29, 2018)

SemperFiDawg said:


> It is.  It's used today as a catch-all phrase when reasonable thought fails to justify some illogical or false proposition.  Just throw a derogatory label on it and walk away.
> The great thing about the bigotry label is you can use it to justify any position.
> People against pedophilia.  Just bigots.
> People against socialism.  Bigots
> ...


I can agree with you on this. I think a lot of people have stretched the meaning  of bigot far beyond what the word was intended to mean.
In a lot of situations I think people have blurred the line between "preference" and "bigot".
I just don't see see the Irish Mom (for example) who wants her Irish daughter to marry a nice Irish boy as being a bigot. I see that as a preference.
Now if that same Irish Mom only wants her daughter to marry an Irish boy because all other nationalities are scumbags then we are entering the realm of bigotry.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> I can totally understand your position.
> But just a comment -
> Divorce rates, infidelity rates and every other rates that you can find statistics for are basically identical for Christians vs. non-Christians in the US.
> People are people.



Walt I will say this and not go any further as we are sure to disagree if I do.  I will give you that much, if not most, of self-described Christians are no different than any secular person you could point out.  Heck, I heard a poll result the other day to the effect that most Americans self-identify not only as Christians, but Evangelical Christians, yet only a scant few can name one Christian Doctrine, so it's a low bar to "get in", so to speak.  

However, there are those in the Church and even outside of the Church who take their relationship and commitment to Christ very seriously.  They stick out both in society and very often within the church just based on their actions, not so much their speech.  I'm sure you've met a few.  

I don't think the demo-graphical statistics would be the same it they were polled, but as the American Church, in fact, you could say the entire Western Church stands today the polls are simply comparing apples to apples.  Viewed as a monolithic entity, I would say there is no difference between the Western Church and Secular society other than in name.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> The 'ol "Real" Christians vs. "Fake" Christians argument.
> By those standards there aren't but a couple of handfuls of "real" Christians in existence.



This isn't antithetical to Christian beliefs.  In fact it's pretty much echoing some words written in red.   

*Matthew 7:21-23 *
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So yeah,  it obvious to us too.


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## NE GA Pappy (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I will readily admit I am not a religious bigot because I find them ALL to be worthless myths.




DUH!  Isn't that bigotry at its finest?


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## WaltL1 (Aug 29, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> People would pay good money. I'm man-purty.


Ok wheres that vomiting emoji thingy.....


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Well, you are wrong about that.
> You can call it disdain, but I call it doubt.



People with only "doubt" don't go out of their way to make false representations or denigrate what they simply "doubt".     People with disdain do.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

NE GA Pappy said:


> DUH!  Isn't that bigotry at its finest?



Yeah, I can't believe he said that.  I just let it slide.


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## SemperFiDawg (Aug 29, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> I'm man-purty.



No such thang.


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## Artfuldodger (Aug 29, 2018)

ky55 said:


> I will readily admit I am not a religious bigot because I find them ALL to be worthless myths.



Then can you truly admit that you would rather your children not marry a Christian or Scientologist? Perhaps you'd rather they marry someone who doesn't believe in any worthless myths.


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## ky55 (Aug 30, 2018)

Some of y’all are hilarious.
Every other religion in the world except your resurrected Jesus is false prophets, idol worship, heresy, or Satan himself.
When I throw yours in the mix y’all blow a gasket.

I guess it all depends on whose ox is getting gored.


I will retract my “worthless” comment though, and I apologize for the poor choice of words.
Most religions give comfort to the folks who have difficulty coping with life, and those folks also benefit greatly from the social interaction.
That’s nothing unique to Christianity.


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## JustUs4All (Aug 30, 2018)

Claims not to be a bigot not withstanding, there is bigotry evidenced.


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## hummerpoo (Aug 30, 2018)

NCHillbilly said:


> People would pay good money. I'm man-purty.


24 hrs. now having past, I am now comfortable saying that this post has left me speechless.


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## NCHillbilly (Aug 30, 2018)

hummerpoo said:


> 24 hrs. now having past, I am now comfortable saying that this post has left me speechless.


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## Spotlite (Sep 20, 2018)

ky55 said:


> Some of y’all are hilarious.
> Every other religion in the world except your resurrected Jesus is false prophets, idol worship, heresy, or Satan himself.
> When I throw yours in the mix y’all blow a gasket.
> 
> ...


Is there a problem with us being loyal to ours? Throwing ours in the mix doesn’t bother us........saying we must recognize all or none based on the non believers parameters is what is irritating. Other than that.....


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## ambush80 (Sep 20, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Is there a problem with us being loyal to ours? Throwing ours in the mix doesn’t bother us........saying we must recognize all or none based on the non believers parameters is what is irritating. Other than that.....



Do you think that your revelation experience is functionally different than the revelation experience of someone else?  I use the word functionally to describe the process by which people receive revelation.  They read it in their doctrine and they get a message in their heart/head that tells them their God is real.  Is that how you get it?

An analogy would be "how we taste things".  We put stuff in our mouths, there's some physical and chemical stuff that happens, parts of our brains go off and we experience "taste".  We may disagree on whether or not it tastes good but the process was the same.


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## bullethead (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Do you think that your revelation experience is functionally different than the revelation experience of someone else?  I use the word functionally to describe the process by which people receive revelation.  They read it in their doctrine and they get a message in their heart/head that tells them their God is real.  Is that how you get it?
> 
> An analogy would be "how we taste things".  We put stuff in our mouths, there's some physical and chemical stuff that happens, parts of our brains go off and we experience "taste".  We may disagree on whether or not it tastes good but the process was the same.


And to add, some may like the taste and yet equally to others it tastes horrible. 
Is "You didn't taste it right" a legitimate excuse?


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## WaltL1 (Sep 21, 2018)

bullethead said:


> And to add, some may like the taste and yet equally to others it tastes horrible.
> Is "You didn't taste it right" a legitimate excuse?


Just as legitimate as "whatever you were tasting didn't give you the gift of it tasting good"


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

bullethead said:


> And to add, some may like the taste and yet equally to others it tastes horrible.
> Is "You didn't taste it right" a legitimate excuse?





WaltL1 said:


> Just as legitimate as "whatever you were tasting didn't give you the gift of it tasting good"




It's also why the idea of Election is so convincing to me given what the doctrine says.  If they're right and Jesus is Lord then it would make sense that some people just aren't "made" to like vanilla.


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## bullethead (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> It's also why the idea of Election is so convincing to me given what the doctrine says.  If they're right and Jesus is Lord then it would make sense that some people just aren't "made" to like vanilla.


If I was made to not like vanilla then I am doing what I am supposed to be doing, why punish me for following the script?


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

bullethead said:


> If I was made to not like vanilla then I am doing what I am supposed to be doing, why punish me for following the script?



Because it says so.  It makes complete sense if you believe in the god of the Bible _a priori_.  What you and I can't get passed is the _a priori _belief in the God of the Bible.


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## bullethead (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Because it says so.  It makes complete sense if you believe in the god of the Bible _a priori_.  What you and I can't get passed is the _a priori _belief in the God of the Bible.


Agreed.
The priori belief in the god of the bible has gotten too late of a start in the human timeline to be truthful for me and ones before it have not lasted long enough to be truthful.
In all cases, the facts do not match the claims.


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## Spotlite (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Because it says so.  It makes complete sense if you believe in the god of the Bible _a priori_.  What you and I can't get passed is the _a priori _belief in the God of the Bible.




Just an observation, but I`m really surprised because if the non believer had honestly examined / experienced / picked apart the Christian faith as they claim in order to rule it out, the above comment and many others like "they didn't do it right" either indicates they didn't examine or didn`t understand what they examined.


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Just an observation, but I`m really surprised because if the non believer had honestly examined / experienced / picked apart the Christian faith as they claim in order to rule it out, the above comment and many others like "they didn't do it right" either indicates they didn't examine or didn't understand what they examined.




My de-conversion started out with one doubt about the Ark story.  That led to a cascade of doubts that led to discovery of inconsistencies and contradictions.   When I believed, I believed in Freewill.  It was as a non-believer that I came to realize that by the logic set up by the doctrine itself (God is omniscient) that there can't possibly be Freewill.  I was able to examine and pick it apart better as a non-believer.  As a believer I was content to lay hard questions "At the foot of the cross".  With all that hindsight, when I believed in Freewill, was I "not doing it right", and now, as a non-believer, do I understand the doctrine better because I realize that it demands that there be no free will?

Isn't it the claim of some believers that the de-converted never "did it right"?


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## Spotlite (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> My de-conversion started out with one doubt about the Ark story.  That led to a cascade of doubts that led to discovery of inconsistencies and contradictions.   When I believed, I believed in Freewill.  It was as a non-believer that I came to realize that by the logic set up by the doctrine itself (God is omniscient) that there can't possibly be Freewill.  I was able to examine and pick it apart better as a non-believer.  As a believer I was content to lay hard questions "At the foot of the cross".  With all that hindsight, when I believed in Freewill, was I "not doing it right", and now, as a non-believer, do I understand the doctrine better because I realize that it demands that there be no free will?
> 
> Isn't it the claim of some believers that the de-converted never "did it right"?


Some will ignorantly say that while they most likely mean someone should have recognized your weak areas and stepped in rather than ignoring. We are to be our brothers keeper. I don’t tell anyone they did it wrong. I don’t tell another denomination they’re doing it wrong. I will tell them I don’t interpret something the same as they do, but that doesn’t automatically make me right. People have to find their way and I’m content that if they honestly search for it they’ll find the right way regardless of the name over their church door.


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## WaltL1 (Sep 21, 2018)

> ambush80, post: 11365207, member: 23393"]It's also why the idea of Election is so convincing to me given what the doctrine says.  If they're right and Jesus is Lord then it would make sense that some people just aren't "made" to like vanilla.


Which view point of Election/the Elect have you decided is the convincing one?


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

Spotlite said:


> Some will ignorantly say that while they most likely mean someone should have recognized your weak areas and stepped in rather than ignoring. We are to be our brothers keeper. I don’t tell anyone they did it wrong. I don’t tell another denomination they’re doing it wrong. I will tell them I don’t interpret something the same as they do, but that doesn’t automatically make me right. People have to find their way and I’m content that if they honestly search for it they’ll find the right way regardless of the name over their church door.



500 likes, Spotlite.


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> Which view point of Election/the Elect have you decided is the convincing one?



Logically, if there exists an omniscient being, then everything is predetermined.  It will take some serious mental gymnastics to say otherwise.


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## WaltL1 (Sep 21, 2018)

ambush80 said:


> Logically, if there exists an omniscient being, then everything is predetermined.  It will take some serious mental gymnastics to say otherwise.


I cant work through the contradiction.
If God predetermined who will be saved I just don't see the need for religion/worship/ the Bible/beliefs/faith.... none of it.
Its been predetermined, none of those things above make one darn bit of difference.
Smells like "man" to me.


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## ambush80 (Sep 21, 2018)

WaltL1 said:


> I cant work through the contradiction.
> If God predetermined who will be saved I just don't see the need for religion/worship/ the Bible/beliefs/faith.... none of it.
> Its been predetermined, none of those things above make one darn bit of difference.
> Smells like "man" to me.



Of course I agree with you.  It all hinges on the _a priori_ assumption that God is sovereign, then it all makes sense.  You pray because you are elect and He commanded you to, though words like "commanded" don't really make sense under that belief.  Most words don't work right in the scenario of an omniscient being.  Words that imply volition or choice or time fall apart.  That's why Freewill folk usually do what would be called "Special Pleading".  My mom likes this adorable analogy: There are two doors with a sign above both that say choose one.  You walk through a door, look back, and there's a sign that says "You have been chosen".  No matter how hard I've tried to illustrate the logical fallacy of this story she doesn't see it.  Neither can I understand why she thinks it makes sense, and she can't explain it to me.  She doesn't realize that she's changing the definition of the words.  She does this because she wants to say that we have freewill.

The most gracious interpretation that I can apply to the conundrum is that from the perspective of Goldilocks,  as she moves through time in the book, it seems like she is making choices.  But we all know she always, ALWAYS sleeps in Baby Bear's bed. But if we turn the page back, she is faced with what to her appears to be a choice. In reality there is no choice for her.


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